#ubuntu-motu 2006-01-02
<\sh> hehe :)
<Kyral> and I am hating this...
<Kyral> on the upshot
<Kyral> I'nm getting a lot of things to package for Ubuntu :P
<Kyral> assuming valid licenses of course
<selinium_> Sorry guys for pestering you in here, but I have had some php updates waiting to install for a couple of days but the change log isn't showing anything. As far as I can see there are no strange repos in my sources. Any ideas? Or has someone not done the change log yet?
<\sh> ???????
<selinium> \sh sorry, I was getting a little frustrated. I'll leave you guys to it. :)
<\sh> selinium: i don't get your question? if there are updates, they should be installed...try apt-get -f install
<\sh> selinium: but your question is nothing for -motu..more #ubuntu
<selinium> \sh I dont install the updates unless I can see what they are doing, As the update log isn't displaying what changes have been made I thought It was sourced from a motu coder maybe not doing something.... if you see what I mean?
<selinium> \sh I get in the details section 'Changes not found, the server may not be updated yet.'
<\sh> selinium: yeah...it's something from server side...not motu side....ask elmo about the status...if it's dapper, then no wonder..read dapper-changes for changelogs :)
<selinium> \sh Anyway I'll take it to #ubuntu. Sorry for disturbing the channel.
<\sh> selinium: no..it's a server problem
<selinium> \sh It is breezy, I still need to get round to doing the dapper thing! :)
<\sh> selinium: for this James Troup is the right person...(aka elmo)
<selinium> \sh OK cheers for the pointer! THankyou for your time! :)
<crimsun> \sh: looks like you're holding down the merge fort
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> what?
<crimsun> \sh: you're doing most of the merge work :)
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> ah come on...you are doing as well a lot :)
<crimsun> everytime I refresh state=new, a few more have disappeared
<\sh> and actually I was lazy in the last couple of weeks :)
<crimsun> you're feeling better, I hope?
<\sh> crimsun: my body is feeling better...my bankaccount not :) fighting with some job applications..but this month...there will be nothing anymore...so I need a new job at least in january
<crimsun> \sh: ah, good luck with the search
* Kyral wonders if he should focus on gaining MOTUShip in this release cycle
<crimsun> sure, put in some more merge and motuscience work
<Kyral> I WOULD put in MOTUScience if EasyChem would get advocated one more time...oy
<Kyral> sorry lol
<Kyral> hacked a lot for a school project today and was under stress
<crimsun> I need to recover my REVU pass
<crimsun> (which means I need to upload something)
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> crimsun: why?
<\sh> enter your email address without the password
<\sh> and press recover
<\sh> (after the failed login :))
<Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1257 if anyone is interested
<crimsun> \sh: ah, ok. Thanks.
<crimsun> hmm, not sure where I'm supposed to paste anything
<\sh> on the console :)
<\sh> gpg -d <<EOF
<\sh> then paste the stuff
<\sh> EOF
<\sh> voila your password :)
<crimsun> yeah, -EPARSE on my part. Thanks.
<Kyral> lol
<Burgundavia> tseng, you can nuke https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellInspiron6000 and move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellInspiron6000-2 into its place4
<crimsun> whoops, I made REVU explode
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I hope he's kidding....
<crimsun> well, I don't think all of REVU's dead, but it certainly gives me a traceback when I attempt to recover my passwd
<\sh> hmmm...ajmitch has a lot of open merges
<crimsun> yeah, he mentioned being on vacation til the new year
<\sh> we need to get those packages in ....it's quite a lot
<\sh> ok....stopping for now...need to wait for another package anyways
<\sh> cu later this day
<Kyral> cya
<crimsun> cya \sh_away
<crimsun> back later, need dinner.
<Kyral> Night all
<crimsun> 'night
<zakame> afternoon MOTUs and MOTU hopefuls :D
<crimsun> hi zak :)
<jsgotangco> don't forget the slackers!
<crimsun> hehe
<zakame> afternoon slackers :D
<jsgotangco> who are you calling a slacker :P
<zakame> is elmo around now?
<crimsun> zakame: I doubt it; he's probably still on holiday
<crimsun> I've just been queueing sync requests to his away log
<crimsun> ;)
<zakame> ah :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> you can try on the 9th to be sure hehe
<tseng> Burglaptop: sorry, why am i nuking someone elses laptop page?
<jsgotangco> hey tseng how's the holidays?
<tseng> good, you?
<jsgotangco> pretty good just idling around
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
* Yagisan sighs
<Yagisan> anyone who was going to test ia32-libs-universe please hold off a while, I've just discovered it conflicts with ia32-libs-gtk
<Lathiat> what is actually in ia32-libs-universe?
<Yagisan> Lathiat: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1318
<Yagisan> Lathiat: at the moment sdl stuff + libpng
<Mithrandir> whose idea is ia32-libs-universe, even?
<Yagisan> png was a conflict
<Yagisan> me - I want my apps to work before multiarch is done
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: I hope you're taking responsibility for security uploads and such too?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: as it cheats the exact same way OOo does, when the fix hits i386, all someone needs to do is sponser my package
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: as it is, it's on revu - if it's not liked, it won't get in
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: I can't say I like the idea of something like that which is a pita to update is not maintained by a motu..
<Mithrandir> (not that I like the idea at all, if we want to do something like this, I know of some less-bad solutions)
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: well, if it's good, and I don't stuff up, it may allow me to become a motu ...
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: let me get my proof of concept working, and if it's liked we'll proceed
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: if not, it will die in revu
<Yagisan> at any rate, it is great for teaching rules voodoo ;)
<Mithrandir> heh
<Mithrandir> it's not a very hard package, imo
<Yagisan> it no, but I did try to get 32bit apps building on amd64. that didn't go down to well
<Yagisan> but I love the huge ifeq "$(DEBIAN_ARCH)" "amd64" sections I get to add to my test subjects rules files
<linlin> would someone be so kind as to add DRFTPD to the list of things to add to ubuntu repos? i think that would be swell
<Yagisan> ? what is DRFTPD ?
<linlin> distributed file transfer protocal daemon
<linlin> its really a rather amazing system
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: you said you could think of an alternative to ia32-libs-universe. What do you propose ?
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: basically an apt wrapper which downloads and munges debs and then just installs the stuff in lib.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: I do that for my test patches to try and get eg zsnes to make an amd64 deb, but it doesn't help for non-deb apps
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: that's why I thought it would be useful to make a package with 32bit versions of the libs for things that just can't be built native
<Tonio_> hi
<SloMoSnail> good morning everybody
<Gloubiboulga> hi slomo
<Kyral> morning MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> hi Kyral
<Kyral> ah I love fscking my drives
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<Tonio_> what would you do with an application hosted on sourceforge
<Tonio_> but whose authors are unknown ?
<Tonio_> impossible to package it ?
<Gloubiboulga> Main packages are not supposed to be *very* clean ?
<Kyral> All packages are supposed to be VERY clean :D
<Gloubiboulga> sure :)
<Gloubiboulga> libXft2 is horrible
<Yagisan> Tonio_: define unknown ? as in not a real name ?
<Tonio_> Yagisan: there is no information about the author, neither on the website, nore in the sources....
<Tonio_> but the application is maintained, required as a dependancie bymany others, and it is officially hosted on sourceforge
<Tonio_> means it is not a kind of underground stuff....
<Tonio_> dunno what o do exactly....
<slomo> hmm, i would package it
<Yagisan> Tonio_: link please
<Tonio_> Yagisan: http://vamps.sourceforge.net
<Tonio_> it is required by many dvd manupation programs, like k9copy for example
<Yagisan> Tonio_: vamps is ok - there is a thread on debian mentors - someone else is also packaging it
<Yagisan> Tonio_: just a sec, I'll see if I can find you a link
<Tonio_> Yagisan: I have seen the debian package
<Tonio_> the problem is that it might not be in debian sid before many month....
<Tonio_> I just would like to provide a package to package k9copy in fact
<Tonio_> fact
<Tonio_> but if you have a link about that author information and what to do, I'd be pleased ;)
<Yagisan> Tonio_: I thought that applicant had finished his package, thought you could perhaps use it
<Tonio_> hum
<Tonio_> porting the application to ubuntu ?
<Tonio_> Yagisan: porting the package I mean ?
<Yagisan> Tonio_: package is here http://www.knio.it/debian/vamps/
<raphink> anybody knows a way to allow a user in particular to mount and umount a partition in particular?
<Tonio_> Yagisan: already have it...
<Tonio_> so Ican make an ubuntu port and that should be okay for REVU, nice ;)
<Yagisan> Tonio_: K - btw - here is the thread I was looking for http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2005/12/msg00309.html
* Yagisan curses his dialup speeds
<Tonio_> thanks Yagisan
<raphink> huhu
<raphink> sudo powa :)
<Tonio_> Note the *should*.  Not a must.  Read this as "it would be nice if you
<Tonio_> name the original author, but if you can't it's okay, too".
<Tonio_> good :) hehehe
<Tonio_> let's go !
<Yagisan> I've just gotten zsnes to work on amd64 with my ia32-libs-universe package, as a result it depends on that package for amd64.
<Yagisan> should I up zsnes to revu, or send a patch to launchpad ?
<lamont> dear motus, ghc6 fails to uninstall properly.  fix that pls.
* tseng pokes \sh_away 
<Knightea> Hi , I am wondering where is the development channel to discuss Ubuntu laptop strategy and development ? tried Ubuntu-laptop dont seem to be the right channel is this one better ;-)
<Yagisan> G'day jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, hi there =)
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: just got my first i386 only package running on amd64 :)
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> youre fast dude
<jsgotangco> i have yet to recover from holiday slack =)
<Mez> jsgotangco, I'm sure Yagisan doesnt want to be told he's fast ;)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, congratulations for graduating from MOTU Slackers
<Yagisan> wOOt - super slacker!!!
<Yagisan> I must admit, I cheat to do it
<Yagisan> I suck down and repackage the i386 deb if I detect I'm building on amd64 :)
<jsgotangco> i should test this out this weekend
<Yagisan> jsgotangco:  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1327 ia32-libs-universe
<slomo> Yagisan: how can this work? you always have a version lower than the current one for amd64
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, :P
<Yagisan> slomo: it would require some forethought on when to build the package for amd64
<slomo> Yagisan: ok, so it's another source package ;)
<Yagisan> slomo: I'll up my zsnes test case to revu in a moment. It's not a new source package, rather a modification to rules + support scripts
<Yagisan> slomo: around ?
<slomo> yes
<Yagisan> slomo: my first test subject is here http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1328
<Kyral> slomo: ping pong ping
<slomo> Yagisan: i have no amd64 ;)
<slomo> Kyral: pong ping pong ;P
<Kyral> lol
<Yagisan> slomo: You can point out if I did really dumb things in my rules though ;)
<Kyral> slomo: can you give EasyChem your vote again? I reuploaded after elmo activated my @ubuntu.com redirect
<slomo> later... my phone rings ;) brb
<Kyral> kk
<Kyral> hey koke
<siretart> Yagisan: I don't think you can expect that the buildds do have free internet connection
<siretart> Yagisan: I see that your ia32libs-universe package is downloading the libs at build time. I don't think that this is okay
<Yagisan> siretart: I don't - but I don't know their apt-cacher ip
<Yagisan> siretart: I was inspired by OOo which does the same sort of thing
<siretart> Yagisan: it does make the buildds download stuff at build time?!
<Yagisan> siretart: oh yes - I pinched their download script
<Yagisan> siretart: thank you for looking at my package. feel free to edit sources.list.txt to point to your local apt-cacher or similar setup
<siretart> Yagisan: thats no problem, I have to investigate if it is okay to expect the buildds to have a free internet connection
<Yagisan> siretart: If they have apt-cacher or similar setup (or are on the same internal network) it would be good to know, so I can set sources appropriately
<Yagisan> siretart: eg zsnes - it now does the download thing too
<siretart> Yagisan: I think you would have to include copies of the source packages in the orig.tar.gz, but I'll have to investigate that in the existing ia32 packages
<siretart> Mithrandir: around?
<siretart> perhaps he could help us in this manner
<Mithrandir> siretart: yes?
<siretart> Mithrandir: Yagisan has prepared a ia32libs-universe package shipping 32bit libsdl for amd64
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: you can't assume an internet connection in debian/rules
<siretart> ah, you already read it
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: you can assume a same-arch mirror, based on what's in /etc/apt/sources.list
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: and you _need_ to ship both the sources and the compiled debs in the source tarball.
<siretart> ah, ok. then I remembered correctly
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: I see - OOo has the same bug then
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: no, it doesn't.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: I'm looking at the OOo rules here. I see it downloading
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: that's why I thought I could apply the same idea
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: no, it doesn't.
<Mithrandir> build:
<Mithrandir> #       ./fetch-and-build
<Mithrandir> that's commented out
<Mithrandir> but, I'm off
<Yagisan> crap - there goes that idea down the toilet.
<Yagisan> that does make it rather hard to grab the i386 deb for an amd64 deb, if the i386 deb hasn't been built, and I can't assume net access.
<Yagisan> siretart: I suppose http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1328 that can be deleted. I can't think of any other way to do it (or the other packages), that doesn't require an internet connection.
<Yagisan> I'll make another upload of the ia32-libs-universe pack, in Jan - when I have the bandwidth to download the debs needed
<Yagisan> although, if I can't use it for i386 debs, only proprietary apps, I'll lose interest in it
<siretart> Yagisan: don't be that frustrated
<siretart> Yagisan: there is already a ia32-libs package
<siretart> Yagisan: and they solve the problem by shipping sources and binaries with it
<Yagisan> siretart: :( looking at zsnes (picked because I could download it on my dialup speed connection)
<Yagisan> siretart: I, at this moment, can't think of a way to use the same package to generate both amd64 and i386 versions
<Yagisan> siretart: I possibly could make a 64bit only package, but that adds extra administration work
<siretart> Yagisan: I quite don't get your problem
<siretart> Yagisan: afair zsnes includes 32bit assembly, no?
<Yagisan> siretart: yes it does, in fact those sorts of apps were my main target
<siretart> so on amd64, you would have to compile it with -m32 to get a 32bit binary on amd64 if I'm not mistaken.
<siretart> the thing is, you would need all libraries in 32bit you link to
<Yagisan> siretart: I spent a long time on that - and it doesn't work like that
<siretart> so what do you propose?
<JohnnyMast> siretart could you delete a revu package for me ?. I packed a to old version of an application by mistake it would take to much patching
<siretart> JohnnyMast: which one?
<JohnnyMast> kryptor
<siretart> Yagisan: I'd suggest talking to the debian maintainer and/or upstream and work with him/them on a solution. perhaps he has an idea
<Yagisan> siretart: when I was trying the -m32 builds, I ended up doing ldflags magic, and packaging -dev files, but inevitably some lib somewhere would try to link against the 64bit instead of 32bit version
<siretart> JohnnyMast: nuke or archiving?
<JohnnyMast> nuke it delete it
<JohnnyMast> so i can pack the new version and upload it cleanly else the diffs would go huge
<siretart> JohnnyMast: done
<Yagisan> siretart: I also ran into issues of 32bit dev headers having collisions with standard files installed into a pbuilder
<siretart> Yagisan: you cannot install 32bit -dev packages in a 64bit system
<siretart> Yagisan: this will be possible with multiarch, Mithrandir is working on it. but today, this is not possible
<Yagisan> siretart: so I went for the network bandwidth trade off
<JohnnyMast> siretart thanks your great
<Yagisan> yes, I know I'm greatly annoying
<siretart> Yagisan: no you are not. I'm happy that someone works on it
<siretart> lets try if your ia32-libs-universe package works for me
<siretart> juhuu!
<siretart> Yagisan: with your package I can finally play quake4 without chroot! :)
<Yagisan> :-D
<Surak> hello
<Yagisan> my goal was to make every i386 only app, into i386 amd64
<siretart> Yagisan: so I'm definitly for a ia32-bit-sdl package (thats how I would call it). there is already a ia32-libs-gtk package, If I'm not mistaken
<Surak> Is there someone to talk about a bug I found in sl-modem-source package?
<Yagisan> siretart: I started with sdl, as that's all I needed for test 1, zsnes
<siretart> Yagisan: your goal should be multiarch, which solves that problem
<siretart> Surak: which malone bug no?
<Surak> Before I post the bug, I would like to talk with the motu responsible for it.
<Yagisan> siretart: I was planning on adding libs for mplayer32, and wine, and any other apps that are important enough
<Yagisan> siretart: I'd like to see multi-arch, but that won't happen until after dapper
<siretart> Surak: all motus are responsible for it (or no one, which you prefer)
<Yagisan> siretart: and I wanted amd64 to be much better for dapper
<Yagisan> siretart: not the poor cousin it is now
<siretart> Yagisan: I understand you. you should work together with tollef, he is doing a lot of in this area. I think you are on a good way, but we cannot change the rules on the buildds
<Surak> siretart: the problem is that a specific device (one of the several supported by that source) will segfault with ubuntu/debian packages, linmodems.technion's archive, as well as the one supplied by smartlink (the one which is not distributable anymore)
<siretart> Yagisan: it is nice that I can build your package on my machine, but the build will fail on the buildds
<siretart> Surak: I think you should talk to mjg59 about that, then
<Yagisan> siretart: I'll change that when I get some bandwidth
<Surak> siretart: there is a patch lying around for sl-modem-2.9.10 (the smartlink's one)
<siretart> Yagisan: you aren't a motu yet, are you?
<Yagisan> siretart: no :(
<Yagisan> siretart: I thought I saw my chance just disappear
<Yagisan> siretart: unless I can figure out a better way soon
<siretart> hm
<siretart> Yagisan: if you are short on bandwith, you don't necessarily need to upload huge packages to tiber. it is okay if you tell other exactly how to create them and upload them for you
<siretart> to revu, that is
<siretart> need to go no, cu later
<Yagisan> siretart: it's ok - I just need to wait until the end of my billing cycle
* Yagisan realises it's 5:30am
<Yagisan> siretart: I'll see if I can think of a better way, but packages like zsnes http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1328 are the ones that cause the most frustrataion
<Yagisan> because I can't ship source + deb until it's been built by i386, I always will be 1 version behind without net access
<Yagisan> anyway - lets see what inspiration sleep brings
<Yagisan> night all
<Kyral_> Gah me ghost is sill around
<SEJeff_work> trulux: ping
<Gloubiboulga> someone uses anjuta with dapper ?
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> openoffice.org-2.0.0 in universe?
<Gloubiboulga> \sh, ?
<\sh> well...yes...openoffice.org != OOo2 ,)
<\sh> so let me merge this 135 MB monster
<Gloubiboulga> \sh, good luck
<sistpoty> hi folks
<\sh> moins sistpoty
<sistpoty> \sh: seems like I should update the merge-list again?
<\sh> sistpoty: well...16 unassigned packages
<sistpoty> \sh: you rock!
<\sh> sistpoty: and we have a problem with some merges which are assigned to aj
<\sh> sistpoty: we need to do them as well
<sistpoty> \sh: what's the problem with these? assigned wrongly?
<\sh> sistpoty: check the ammount...and the time frame we have...and you have to run again the merge-list update
<sistpoty> \sh: yeah... that's tough... but iirc he was working on zope stuff
<\sh> sistpoty: yes...but the python packages?
<sistpoty> no idea really :/
<\sh> well...I have a couple of syncs handy and I'm working on the other merges like openoffice.org
<\sh> so if those merges are finished and the syncs as well....and my buglist is completly empty..i'm stopping with the merging work for this release :)
<sistpoty> \sh: do you give elmo a list? I have two ready as well
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> sistpoty: well..yes..I'll write a mail when I have cleaned up the list
<\sh> sistpoty: can you do me a favour?
<sistpoty> \sh: sure
<\sh> sistpoty: kguitar, linuxdcpp, ncmpc there are no merge reports...can you remove them from the list?
<\sh> timer-applet as well :)
<\sh> hmmm
<sistpoty> kguitar unstable: 0.5-1 vs 0.5-0ubuntu2
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/kguitar
<\sh> it's not there
<sistpoty> maybe mom is wrong? ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: well...mom is never wrong :)
<sistpoty> okok, I'll delete those ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: but it can be that scott is wrong :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> but 0.5-1 vs 0.5-0ubuntu2 is surely an utnubu package
<\sh> ok..kguitar, linuxdcpp, ncmpc, timer-applet, tla-load-dir, vblade
<\sh> wxglade as well?
<\sh> please check the reports...i'm not sure if my computer is screwing up now
<\sh> no..it's correct..no reports
<sistpoty> vblade is 6-1 vs. 5-0ubuntu2, but has different maintainers (ours has fabbione as maint)
<sistpoty> and thus no merge report (i guess)
<sistpoty> wxglade is a newer version with cvs-suffix in debian
<sistpoty> (but no report)
<\sh> what is the right way here.
<\sh> ok openoffice.org is just a pain
<sistpoty> hm... I guess it *should* pop up again after the update of the list
<sistpoty> (i removed it)
<sistpoty> \sh: can you add lxml, openrpg and fpc to your list of syncs? I once asked for lxml and openrpg, but I guess elmo didn't see them in backlog ;)
<sistpoty> and fpc needs some bootstrapping, but I already talked with infinity bout it
<\sh> sistpoty: ok
<sistpoty> thx \sh
<sistpoty> \sh: list is up to date now
<\sh> argl
<sistpoty> * Processing wxglade
<sistpoty> E: Package base version not found: wxglade (0.3.5.1-0)
<sistpoty> that's the reason it has no report
<lfittl> sistpoty: please add the sourcepackage libloki to the list, it needs a libstdc++ allocator rebuild and is not listed there
<sistpoty> lfittl: did you check for mt_alloc symbols?
<lfittl> sistpoty: well not that, but g++ gives me linking errors that seem to be caused by the allocator change
<lfittl> sistpoty: how do I check for the symbols? readelf -a libloki.a | grep mt_alloc ?
<sistpoty> lfittl: run 'objdump -T <libs> | grep mt_alloc and see, there any symbols (quote from doko)
<lfittl> sistpoty: "objdump: *.o: not a dynamic object" (library is built as static only)
<sistpoty> lfittl: you need to do that on shared objects
<lfittl> sistpoty: you mean static libraries are not affected by the allocator change?
<sistpoty> lfittl: no. at least not in this way...
<sistpoty> lfittl: if the static lib would for some reason link dynamically against a lib that's affected, all depending packages would need to be rebuilt as well, but that's quite a difference, as you usually don't link statically
<lfittl> sistpoty: I will try a rebuild here and report if that changes anything
<lfittl> sistpoty: found the reason of the linking error, but I still wonder if I should ignore the 5 mt_alloc symbols of the old build? (readelf -s libloki.a | grep mt_alloc)
<lfittl> sistpoty: is there any information on this topic? (except the devel-announce mail)
<sistpoty> lfittl: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-November/000016.html
<sistpoty> lfittl: if it's not a shared object, it doesn't need to be renamed. however these symbols might lead to strange errors in apps that link against the lib, but that is not s.th. that would change from a new gcc version
<lfittl> sistpoty: k, unterstood that, thanks for your help :)
<sistpoty> np
<doko> anybody wants to look at outstanding/failing packages still built with libstdc++5?
<sistpoty> doko: do you have a list? or some nice cmd to get these?
<doko> http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/libstdc++5-deps.txt
<doko> sistpoty: look up the build logs, these all fail to build from source for some reason
<sistpoty> doko: k. thx. will do
<\sh> doko: moins..could you do a openoffice.org (1) merge?
<doko> sistpoty: not you alone ;-)
<sistpoty> doko: sure... I'm not \sh ;)
<doko> \sh: no, not yet
<\sh> doko: when you have time :) http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/openoffice.org/ :) I'm stucked
<\sh> sistpoty: what does that mean now ? ,)
<sistpoty> \sh: just looking at your merge ratio from today ... :P
<\sh> sistpoty: dude...i was lazy the last weeks and I was bored today :) so let me have my fun :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> sistpoty: and I never count :)
<sistpoty> \sh: only thing I saw was an almost empty merge-list ;)
<\sh> hehe :)
<\sh> let me close my bugs now :)
<tseng> i cant believe the list is that small
<tseng> is mom still running?
<doko> \sh: please not yet. that will become ugly, when we are renaming the packages from *2 to *.
<sistpoty> tseng: it is... I just updated the list an hour ago
<tseng> motu rocks
<\sh> doko: hmmm....give me some news...we want to do what?
<\sh> tseng: well...the list of unassigned packages is not important...the list of assigned packages and not closed yet bugs is much more worse
<tseng> i see
<\sh> tseng: i'm working differently...doing the lpbugs run, doing the merges, upload and see at the end of the day what compiled and what not :)
<doko> \sh: first get openoffice.org2 be built on powerpc, then fix grave bugs, then make a breezy backport, then "merge"
<\sh> doko: oh...so it's right what I saw in debian changelog of openoffice.org 2.0.0*
<\sh> doko: I thought openoffice.org2 and openoffice.org (1) are different sources
<doko> \sh: yes, they are different. why do you want to merge OOo1`
<doko> ?
<\sh> doko: because there is a MoM report :)
<\sh> doko: and the debian packages are mixed up with openoffice.org and openoffice.org2 source package names somehow...and the latest MoM report is openoffice.org 2.0.0-5
<\sh> doko: but if we don't need OOo1 anymore, please ask elmo to remove it from dapper
<\sh> sistpoty: can we generate a list of unmet deps?
<sistpoty> \sh: afaik siretart has got s.th. ready for that...
<sistpoty> \sh: I'll hack up some webtool/extend the merge-list to handle this... but I guess I'll need a week or so to have it done (too little time :()
<lfittl> \sh: http://revu.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/
<\sh> lfittl: yeah..have it :) :)
<lfittl> :)
<\sh> sistpoty: looks like that I have to improve lpbugs :)
<sistpoty> \sh: yeah :)
<\sh> uhm...I'll do it during new years eve :)
<sistpoty> \sh: k... I guess I won't be that fast with a webfrontend :/
<\sh> sistpoty: let's find a good subject line for unmet deps etc. and libstdc++5 stuff :)
<sistpoty> \sh: Package uninstallable due to unmet dependency?
<sistpoty> \sh: problem I see with these lists: how do we handle stuff that's on more than one list... but I guess the first shot at will be: "first look through other lists" ;)
<sistpoty> s/at/at it/
<doko> \sh: please leave it alone for now
<\sh> doko: yeah this is what i'm doing :) never touch a beast like open office :)
<\sh> same applies to kernel stuff in universe...
<\sh> anyone wants to volunteer for linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 and linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6 ?
* sistpoty hides
<\sh> hehe
<sistpoty> btw.: since the libstdc++5-list is pretty small: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUstdc++5
<doko> sistpoty: nice page :)
<sistpoty> doko: just done in 5 mins or so... most of it was s/ /||/g
<\sh> sistpoty: oh boson-base..have fun with it :)
<sistpoty> \sh: I have a compiling version on my box... but it's missing textures and upstream is not very responsive :(
<sistpoty> missing textures as in: textures are there, but don't get displayed
<\sh> sistpoty: in breezy I had the problem with the old kdegames stuff :) the new version I had was including old stuff from kdegames which wasn't gcc/g++-4 aware
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> I know some of boson-base from last breezy night, while I tried to fix it...
<\sh> moins crimsun
<\sh> time for a beer :)
<crimsun> hi \sh :)
<\sh> hehe...crimsun is doing the rest of the open 16 packages :)
<\sh> oh only 13 left :)
<crimsun> hehe
<\sh> doko: are you recompiling the main stuff ?
<doko> \sh: which?
<\sh> doko: argl...I'm on breezy..forget about it :) need to update to dapper asap
<\sh> lets see if we clean up dokos list during this night :)
<sistpoty> hehe
* crimsun reads e-mail
* StevenK notes the distinct lack of merges to work on.
<crimsun> it's great!
<\sh> StevenK: you are welcome to do the kernel stuff :)
<StevenK> Oh, blah. :-P
<\sh> StevenK: hehehe
<StevenK> Are the UNASSIGNED ones still up for grabs? :-)
<\sh> StevenK: sure :)
* StevenK grabs one.
<sistpoty> on the libstc++-list we just got a edit-conflict... hopefully it's resolved now
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
<\sh> hehe..clash between doko and me :)
<\sh> atom4 already in the archives :)
* StevenK kicks crimsun.
<StevenK> Mine! Mine!
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> fight fight :)
<Kyral> just someone review EasyChem ;P
<StevenK> \sh: Geez, how many merge bugs did you just file?
<\sh> StevenK: i didn't count...but thinking about only 8 hours of sleep during the day...I think a lot :)
<\sh> StevenK: new ones and some are already closed :)
<\sh> I'll leave the rest to you :)
<sistpoty> StevenK: debfoster uploaded
<\sh> uhuh...kforth has serious troubles
<\sh> fixing it somehow
<\sh> gcc-4 issues :( int* to int castings etc.
<\sh> doko: fixed ivi
<StevenK> sistpoty: Thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2006-01-03
<tseng> file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html < ugh, yellow is back
<\sh> hmm..new upstream...
<crimsun> I may as well jog to Mexico while k3d compiles
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> kforth new upstream, doesn't like the libreadline5
<crimsun> punch it! ;)
<\sh> well...new upstream likes gcc4 but doesn't like libreadline5 I'm fcked
<\sh> old 1.2.6 doesn't like gcc4 at all :)
<whiprush> hi \sh
<\sh> moins whiprush
<whiprush> thanks for the gajim upload! :)
<\sh> whiprush: my pleasure :) it was christmas time :)
<raphink> rsynch through ssh doesn't keep owners and perms :(
<raphink> well owners I mean :(
<\sh> raphink: what about -p ?
<\sh> raphink: -p preserve permissions
<raphink> doesnt' work
<\sh> and -o (only root)
<raphink> nor -o
<raphink> for owners ;)
<raphink> it works great in local
<raphink> but not through ssh
<\sh> raphink: well...
<raphink> :(
<raphink> yes
<raphink> actually it's -o I'd need
<raphink> since it's the owners that are not kept
<\sh> raphink: tar -cv <path> | ssh
<raphink> hmm
<\sh> raphink: tar -cpv <path> | ssh
<raphink> even as root, -o doesnt preserve the owners through ssh
<crimsun> http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2005-August/013203.html
<raphink> everything is written with the current user as the owner
<raphink> I wrote my whole tool with rsync and ssh
<raphink> so I'm not to use tar instead ;)
<raphink> too late ;)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> the pb is that I didn't want to use root on the remote side
<raphink> because that would imply using a RSA key to connect from root@1 to root@2 without a passwd
<raphink> which doesn't seem very secure
<raphink> but I guess this will still be the best thing to do
<raphink> it seems
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> :)
<raphink> thanks crimsun
<raphink> :)
<raphink> that was the way to go :)
<crimsun> cool
<sistpoty> raphink: I'm not quite sure, what you want to do... but you can't change file ownerships as non-root
<scotth_> raphink, try cpio, something like cpio -o -v --format=newc | ssh root@host "cpio -i --format=newc" thats what I always use
<raphink> that's not what I want to do sistpoty
<raphink> I'll try that later on
<raphink> so far I've got a system that works great
<raphink> spent 2 days making it
<raphink> so I'm pretty happy :)
<raphink> 2 scripts on the server side, called by 1 script on the client side
<raphink> ssh/rsa and nfs as ro to browse the archives
<raphink> :)
<raphink> works like a charm :)
<raphink> and its fast
<raphink> maybe just a bit complicate
<raphink> hehe ;)
<crimsun> hey not bad, only an hour and a half to build k3d on amd64
<raphink> :)
<StevenK> crimsun: I claim xtalk. Mine!
<crimsun> StevenK: I uploaded that a while ago
* StevenK glares at crimsun.
<crimsun> you can have the remaining merges, though :)
<\sh> good night folks :)
<\sh> have fun with the rest of the merges :)
<crimsun> 'night \sh
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<sistpoty> can s.o. with non-i386 help me with mythtv?
<crimsun> I have an amd64 pbuilder, but that's the extent of it. What do you need?
<sistpoty> crimsun: it horribly fails on everything but i386, and I guess it might be fixed if the configure was called w.o. i386-specific options
<crimsun> ok, tell me where to start
<sistpoty> crimsun: mom
<crimsun> k
<sistpoty> crimsun: I'm just checking if the sourcepackage hit the archives yet
<sistpoty> crimsun: grab 0.18.1-5ubuntu1 from mythtv
<sistpoty> crimsun: and then look at debian/rules, where configure is called
<sistpoty> crimsun: hopefully taking out the line "--cpu=i486 --tune=pentium4 --enable-mmx " will do the trick
<sistpoty> (otherwise it will ftbfs very soon, at least according to the build-logs)
<slomo> oh mythtv -5 has _SO_ many problem
<slomo> s
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<slomo> hi sistpoty :)
<slomo> you have a ghc6 bugreport by lamont himself ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: I have? where?
<slomo> many lines above... sorry, i'm a bit drunken currently ;) it is uninstallable currently he said
<sistpoty> d'oh
<slomo> un-uninstallable
<StevenK> Oh, blah. instanbul has different tarballs between Debian and Ubuntu.
<sistpoty> slomo: what's worse is that it ftbfs currently due to a makefile-problem (make will just sit and run forever) :(
<slomo> sistpoty: for mythtv i'm doing that bugreport tomorrow... it was filed by a friend of mine :) i have to meet my expectations ;)
<slomo> hmm... another ftbfs because of new make=
<slomo> ?
<sistpoty> slomo: actually I just wanted to do the stdc++-allocator change... but I'm more than happy if you can take this from me ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: maybe... but I haven't investigated it any further yet
<slomo> i take mythtv happily... i don't know _what_ i take there but i will solve it.. :P
<sistpoty> hehe :)
<slomo> and if it's another failure like the mono one where the buildds are to blame ;)
<raphink> pfiew
<raphink> got it :)
<slomo> ok... so i take mythtv and you take ghc6 :P if you solve it faster than me you owe me a beer, otherwise the other way around ;)
<tseng> does anyone know when colony 3 is
<tseng> or whatever the hell they are called now
<tseng> flight
<slomo> flight 3 is 2 weeks in the future afaik
<sistpoty> slomo: ok, deal ;)
<tseng> that sucks
<tseng> because flight 2 is useless on my laptop
<slomo> haha
<slomo> dito :)
<slomo> ppc that is
<slomo> sistpoty: i think we have to meet then soon :P the mono ftbfs is definitely harder :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> hmm... what's with our "uncommon" programming languages team? :) let's get this ready for dapper :)
<sistpoty> slomo: i want to get fpc back into dapper... I already had a brief chat w. infinity about it :)=
<slomo> fpc?
<sistpoty> free pascal compiler
<slomo> my major goal is sml and nemerle :) they're _THE_ languages :)
<slomo> hmmmm
<slomo> someone talked to me about it...
<sistpoty> I happened to find the project lazarus... looks very promising
<slomo> what's broken there?
* slomo can write pascal... at least a bit ;)
<sistpoty> with lazarus or with fpc?
<slomo> both
<sistpoty> fpc simply needs bootstrapping... but this should be going smoothly: take debian package and bootstrap w. it
<sistpoty> lazarus is not yet packaged :)
<sistpoty> slomo: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Screenshots&file=index
<crimsun> hmm.
<slomo> lazarus is cool... only because of the name :)
<crimsun> we have gpc, but fp-compiler would be nice.
<slomo> crimsun: aaah... i have a mythtv bugreport for you ;P
<crimsun> slomo: you mean sistpoty ;)
<sistpoty> crimsun: we soon will have fpc back ;)
<crimsun> sistpoty: oh? rock!
<sistpoty> crimsun: yes... infinity promised to help... after christmas :)
<slomo> crimsun: no :P you're the mythtv guy ;) get 6175 :P i don't like to touch it because it's mdz' package
<sistpoty> slomo: I still didn't find any complaints for ghc6 in the logs...
<slomo> siretart: *sigh* i'll search for it :)
<sistpoty> thx slomo
<crimsun> slomo: yep, I'm test-building on amd64 atm
<crimsun> so far so good...
<slomo> sistpoty: Dez 28 16:56:19 <lamont>        dear motus, ghc6 fails to uninstall properly.  fix that pls.
<slomo> crimsun: np :) you should definitely join the motumedia forces ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: thx
<slomo> np :)
<crimsun> it's actually not mdz's anymore according to http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/163269
<crimsun> though we should definitely coordinate w/ whatever those guys are doing in svn
<slomo> crimsun: i guess they're as insane as the mplayer and xine guys ;) as the dvd jon is :P
<crimsun> sigh, silly coffee shop wifi ;)
<slomo> *shrug* :)
<crimsun> sistpoty: mythtv builds successfully on amd64 with that line removed from configure
<crimsun> I'd say that's a good start
<crimsun> uhh
<sistpoty> crimsun: thx
<sistpoty> slomo: do you want to take mythtv or should I do an upload with that fix?
<slomo> and it builds on ppc with that line removed btw ;)
<slomo> take it if you want... we're a team :P
<sistpoty> slomo: k... then I'll fix the FTBFS and you'll go for your bugs ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: or do you want to do with that in one upload?
<slomo> no, just take it :) i have xine-lib and a bunch of other problems right now
<sistpoty> ok
<slomo> gn8
<jsgotangco> night slomo
<sistpoty> gn8 slomo
<crimsun> 'night slomo
<raphink> hi ogra_ibook
<raphink> :)
<ogra_ibook> hi
<raphink> how are you?
<ogra_ibook> fine ... busy playing with powerpc netbooting
<raphink> :)
<raphink> hi zakame
<zakame> hi raphink :)
<raphink> ogra_ibook: do you have some time to give me your opinion on a backup tool I just hacked?
<raphink> or zakame maybe :)
<zakame> what backup tool? Just got up this morning ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> http://raphink.free.fr/debs/backup_0.1.tar.gz
<raphink> it's all fresh
<raphink> ;)
<zakame> w00t
<zakame> waah lighttpd got packaged now in debian
<raphink> :)
<raphink> did you have a look the script zakame ?
<zakame> not yet
<raphink> oki
<raphink> :)
<zakame> lemme check
<raphink> :)
* raphink spent two days hacking and studying to get to write this script
<raphink> not sure it was worth it the 2 days, but i'm pretty happy with the result :)
* seth_k|lappy has spent the last two days redesigning his company's website
<seth_k|lappy> and same for me, not sure if it was worth 2 days, but happy ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> :)
<raphink> happy hackers :)
* zakame spent the last 2 days making sure the sync merges are really just syncs
<raphink> zakame: do you also think that was not worth 2 days but you're happy?
<zakame> raphink: I'm always happy :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> did you see narnia already zakame ?
<zakame> not yet, it hasn't reached the local cinema, though I think it's already up in Manila
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<raphink> I was afraid to be deceived
<zakame> w00t cool backup script
<raphink> and i'm far from being any near to deceived
<raphink> zakame: :)
<raphink> do you think it's cool enough to be released ?
<raphink> ;)
<zakame> let me test it on the parish net, then we'll see ;)
<raphink> sure :)
<raphink> it's a bit hard to set up properly I reckon
<raphink> you have to set up NFS, RSA keys, crontab manually
<raphink> and you need a separate backup partition on the server
<raphink> if I find time for that and find it useful, I might work on automatizing these parts a bit
<raphink> or at least documenting them better
<raphink> at least the backup scripts work and are fast
<zakame> oooh
<raphink> what?
<zakame> I'll keep those in mind (and in log ;)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I was thinking about writing an article on the wiki
<raphink> about that
<raphink> providing the scripts and explaining how to set a nice backup server on a network with them
<raphink> won't do that tonight though, cause it's 2:30 AM
<raphink> ;)
<zakame> whoa
<raphink> zakame: what?
<zakame> raphink: early morning on your end ;)
<raphink> yes indeed
<zakame> wb sistpoty
<sistpoty> re zakame
<raphink> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi raphink
<zakame> w00t! only 7 pkg unassigned for merge! tho 223 are now assigned :)
<zakame> hm the links to ongoing-merge are also 404s now
<zakame> except for linux-kernel-di it seems
<sistpoty> zakame: if mom couldn't find a common base-version, you get 404's (you can see it in the log file)
<raphink> good night
<zakame> good night rajasun
<zakame> er raphink
<sistpoty> zakame: and then there still may be some false positives, though I tried to clean up the list, thx to \sh
<raphink> hehe
<zakame> sistpoty: ah
<raphink> <>< :)
<sistpoty> gn8 raphink
<zakame> raphink: amen :)
<raphink> :)
<zakame> gtg too, I'll take wxglade with me ;)
<sistpoty> have fun w. it ;)
<zakame> hoohoo :D
<slomo> crimsun: no need to merge nss-msdn and liferea... they're on top of my todo list :)
<crimsun> slomo: d'oh, I uploaded liferea a few minutes ago
<slomo> ok, np then :)
<crimsun> slomo: and nss-msdn I marked as a sync
<crimsun> -mdns
<slomo> yes, it is a sync ;)
<slomo> *shrug* nevermind :)
<sistpoty> gna... mythtv, upload #3 due to copy/paste error from me... I'm no hero today :(
<crimsun> hey don't feel bad, it took me 6 tries with vlc for Breezy
<tseng> Amaranth: ill hold the punching bag
<sistpoty> crimsun: few... then I'll have 3 more to go ;)
<crimsun> ;)
<tseng> so how do you get locales installed on clean flight2 again?
<sistpoty> StevenK: still there? iterm (0.5-5ubuntu1, from your debdiff) FTBFS :/
<sistpoty> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6292
<slomo_> crimsun: you should've use to experimental version from liferea... much less to change ;)
<slomo_> hmm... bbl
<crimsun> slomo_: I did
<sistpoty> StevenK: looks like two lines should be commented out instead of only one
<Amaranth> tseng: ?
<StevenK> sistpoty: However, i386, amd64, hppa, powerpc and sparc all built. Only ia64 failed.
<sistpoty> StevenK: is it uploaded already?
<StevenK> iterm 0.5-5ubuntu1 was uploaded a while ago.
<sistpoty> StevenK: ah, k... then I don't need to look on this ;)
<sistpoty> StevenK: but still it's strange that it now ftbfs (on my i386 pbuilder)
<sistpoty> StevenK: maybe this is some new feature of make :)
<StevenK> sistpoty: It could be the new make. Lemee try to build -5ubuntu1 and -5ubuntu2
<Amaranth> iTerm?
<StevenK> Internationalized terminal
<StevenK> From the Japanese alternate free software dimension.
<StevenK> sistpoty: Reproducible.
<chillywilly> is bind9 on the breezy install CD?
<chillywilly> apt tells me it cannot find it
<sistpoty> StevenK: ah, k
<Amaranth> chillywilly: on the server cd?
<StevenK> sistpoty: I've just made a quick patch to debian/rules. I'll see if it builds first.
<sistpoty> StevenK: ok
<chillywilly> Amaranth: the install CD
<Amaranth> chillywilly: afaik it's only on the server install cd
<chillywilly> oh?
<chillywilly> didn't know there was a difference
<chillywilly> what does it actually do when you choose server then?
<chillywilly> just install hte base and install the rest from the net?
<chillywilly> the*
<chillywilly> doesn't install it at all?
<Amaranth> installs the least amount of software possible
<chillywilly> so it's just not there
<chillywilly> great...
<chillywilly> :)
<Amaranth> the server cd does too, but it also includes stuff on the cd for servers
<tseng> Amaranth: that guy in #g-h is driving me nuts
<chillywilly> don't have a server CD though :(
<chillywilly> breezy had server cds?
<chillywilly> or is this "new"
<Amaranth> not really new
<Amaranth> new as in breezy was the first release to have them
<tseng> for reference, installing a language pack fixes locales
<tseng> on a new flight 2 install
<tseng> + dist-upgrade
<StevenK> sistpoty: Okay, that corrects the FTBFS. Would you like a debdiff between -5ubuntu1 and -5ubuntu2?
<tseng> or maybe it doesnt..
<sistpoty> StevenK: would be nice
<sistpoty> StevenK: then you'll get the credits ;)
<StevenK> sistpoty: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/iterm_0.5-5ubuntu2.debdiff
<sistpoty> StevenK: thx
<sistpoty> StevenK: uploaded
<StevenK> sistpoty: Thanks.
<sistpoty> np
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everybody
<chillywilly> where are the server CDs?
<chillywilly> nevermind, found 'em
<chillywilly> are these available via ship-it?
<chillywilly> (looks like launchpad is down atm)
<scotth_> chillywilly, I don't think there are "server" cds, I think what you looking for is to type "server" at the boot prompt of any regular cd
<crimsun> there are.
<crimsun> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-December/000047.html
<chillywilly> http://releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/breezy/
<chillywilly> there too :)
<crimsun> moins ogra
<crimsun> d'oh
<zakame> wb ogra_
<zakame> hi womble :)
<womble> Hi zakame
<womble> siretart: ping
<zakame> have the following pkgs been requested for sync already?: module-assisstant, xfce4-fsguard-plugin, albatross, kvdr, lablgl, libapache-mod-musicindex, octave2.1, orbit2cpp, pngwriter, positron?
<minghua> zakame: octave2.1 probably haven't been yet
<minghua> zakame: if you can review and ask the sync, I'll appreciate it
<zakame> minghua: just did, 'tis a sync alright, I was asking earlier if anyone else made sync requests already, I don't want to annoy elmo when he comes back ;)
<minghua> elmo should have a web inteface for his IRC away log :-P
<minghua> zakame: thanks!
<zakame> no prob :)
<Mez> womble, is it a REVU thing ?
<zakame> bbl, have a nice day all :)
<Mez> *pokes*
<Mez> anyone around?
<FireRabbit> ?
<FireRabbit> oops, sorry :)
<Mez> wondering why this cdbs package isnt building
<Mez> well
<Mez> not configuring
<sivang> morning al
<Mez> sivang - any idea why this package is being a b**tch ?
<Mez> it's using cdbs - but doesnt use ./configure
<sivang> Mez: which package is that?
<Mez> Simias :D
<Mez> I've left cdbs behind
<Mez> back to good old dh :D
<sivang> that's will alwasy work :)
<sivang> cdbs is evil
<womble> Mez: Yes
<Mez> womble: sup - I can probably help
<womble> Mez: RCS for the revu code
<womble> Does it exist?
<Mez> erm - not publically accessible
<womble> I want to see if it's doable to deploy for debian-mentors
<womble> Any chance of getting at it, or do I just sit down and reimplement it?
<siretart> womble: pong
<womble> Hey siretart, check scrollback between Mez and I
<womble> Just wondering if I can get access to the REVU source code to setup a similar service for debian-mentors
<siretart> womble: sure, the svn should be ro for the public
<siretart> womble: you mean the old revu1 codebase, no?
<womble> siretart: Not sure what the difference between the two is.  At the moment, the features in the currently deployed revu are quite handy enough
<siretart> womble: well, the latter is a not yet functional reimplementation of the first, since the first is rather a proof of concept and to investigate our workflow in real life. I didn't imagine that team that it will become that useful
<siretart> the url for checkout is this http://tiber.tauware.de/svn/revu1
<siretart> but there seems to be some permissions foo on the server, I'm investigating it
<womble> siretart: Yeah, I'm getting PROPFIND errors
<siretart> womble: pardon, my bad, this url should work for you: http://tiber.tauware.de/svn/revu
<womble> And lo! there was a checkout
<womble> Thanks
<siretart> I'm rather using svn+ssh:// on that machine, so I didn't check svn checkout some time ago
<siretart> womble: you will definitly need help to set it up, because the documentation is not existant. feel free to ask me
<siretart> womble: I'm happy to help you to setup it
<womble> What's the rewrite involving at this stage?  (I'll definitely ask for help in setup shortly)
<womble> I dunno about non-existent documentation; that README file is a lot longer than several I've seen <grin>
<siretart> pretty much everything. try to compare with this: http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/trunk/
<womble> Another happy trac user.  I'm hearing lots of good things about it.
<siretart> womble: ;) - yeah, there is some. but for a project at this size, I'd expect some more, espc. how to use it
<siretart> yeah, trac is awesome. I tried it and was astonished how easy it is to setup
<womble> It's in my "stuff to look at" queue
<womble> Surprisingly, it looks like it'll fit almost exactly with the workflow of a project I lead
<Mez> weirdness
<siretart> it requires a svn repo (preferably on the same machine for file:/// access). the database itself is a sqlite instance. most of trac can be configured via webinterface, some options are only avaiable via cli.
<siretart> huhu Mez
<Mez> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 22: continued value line not in field
<Mez> oh
<Mez> control
<Mez> I was looking in rules :d
<siretart> :)
<minghua> as they said, a bear doll helps in debugging :-)
<Mez> still no idea what it means
<minghua> Mez: an extra newline?
<Mez> space dot
<Mez> not space space
<Mez> gah
<siretart> wooho. new wine :)
<Yagisan> re:
<Yagisan> siretart: I've had another idea on how to get i386 debs going on amd64 without sucking down source @ build time
<Yagisan> if I can get apt-get update to not choke on md5sum mistatches, I'll see if it works
<Yagisan> s/mistatches/mismatches
<Yagisan> siretart: ping
<siretart> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> siretart: Do you have a local dapper i386 mirror ?
<siretart> Yagisan: I have an apt-cacher, and 2mbit downstream
<Yagisan> siretart: ok - do you mind if I dcc you a "dehydrated" ia32-libs-universe package a bit later, with brief instructions on how to "rehydrate", and the stick it on revu for me ?
<siretart> Yagisan: I'd prefer email, but yes, no problem
<siretart> Yagisan: if you tell me on irc, you can even ftp it to tiber, and I'll catch it manually from the incoming queue
<Yagisan> siretart: well, "dehydrated" is 3k, "rehydrated" is ~14MB
<minghua> Hmm, seems ia32-libs-universe really has a lot of water in it :-)
<siretart> Yagisan: I think I understand what you want :)
<siretart> Yagisan: no problem, pass it over to me, and perhaps compare the md5 sums
<Yagisan> siretart: thanks. I can send it now actually - you'd rather catch it at revu ?
<siretart> please ftp it (without changes file)
<siretart> that way it is already on the right host, I can sign that remotely
<Yagisan> siretart: I've just ftp'ed it to you
<Yagisan> siretart: after extracting the source, open sources.list.txt and point it at your local cache
<siretart> just a sek
<Yagisan> siretart: then just run fetch-and-build, then repack the source. All done :)
<Yagisan> siretart: thank you very much. That package while currently sdl only is a good start.
<siretart> I'm running it on tiber agains archive.ubuntu.com
<Yagisan> siretart: best to point it at your cache, it grabs more then is strictly needed, and filters the rest
<siretart> Yagisan: -rw-r--r--  1 siretart siretart 14838930 Dec 29 07:28 ia32-libs-universe_1.0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<siretart> Yagisan: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1329
<siretart> Yagisan: please check if the result is what you expected
<Yagisan> siretart: thank you. the extract directory here http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ia32-libs-universe-0512290731/ia32-libs-universe-1.0ubuntu1/pkgs/ isn't showing the .debs
<Yagisan> siretart: srcs is fine however
<siretart> Yagisan: I did exactly what you told me
<Yagisan> siretart: strange - when I build a local copy I have .debs in it
<Yagisan> siretart: -rw-r--r--   1 jamie jamie 14959851 2005-12-29 12:44 ia32-libs-universe_1.0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<Yagisan> siretart: but that is pointed at breezy (which I have cacged)
<Yagisan> s/cacged/cached
<siretart> Yagisan: I think it is okay for you to upload further packages with instructions how to rehydrate the package
<Yagisan> siretart: thank you.
<Yagisan> siretart: your apache server, is it configured to not display .debs ?
<siretart> Yagisan: I'll check
<siretart> Yagisan: you are right, the .debs are indeed there, but 'just' not displayer
<siretart> displayed
<Yagisan> siretart: ok - thats ok. the package as is is fine. Good idea not to display the .debs anyway
<Yagisan> siretart: feel free to enjoy some non-chrooted quake4 :)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> In the current state, I think 'ia32-libs-sdl' would be a better name
<Yagisan> siretart: I know, but it is only that way, as I haven't tried to get non-sdl apps going
<siretart> thank you for working on this!
<Yagisan> siretart: main targets at the moment are sdl, and wine. Then whatever other useful libs that are needed
<Yagisan> siretart: your welcome. I have lots of motivation. I want the damm thing to work
<matgates> Hello.  What's the proedure for submitting .debs for ubuntu?  Anyone have a howto link handy?
<Yagisan> matgates: which debs ?
<matgates> Well, I'd like to update the stellarium package, it's quite out of date.  I think it is in universe/science.
<siretart> matgates: whats the current upstream version?
<matgates> You mean the current stabe release of the project?  0.7.1
<matgates> *stable
<siretart> so we are up to date, I'd say
<siretart> or what do you mean with 'updateting stellarium'??
<matgates> Oh, that's odd.  I only see 0.6.2-3.
<matgates> Is the updated version not available to people running [k] ubuntu 5.10?
* matgates is running kubunu 5.10, using gb repository mirrors.
<siretart> matgates: breezy released with 0.6.2-3ubuntu1, but we have now 0.7.1-1ubuntu1 in dapper
<matgates> OK, sorry, I think I must be mis-undestanding how it works.  Newer versions aren't available to people running breezy?
* matgates starts downloading dapper.
<siretart> no. breezy ist stable, we don't want to break stable releases by new upstream versions
<siretart> dapper is our current development release. expect things to break
<matgates> right, no probs.
<matgates> Is there some way to get Stellarium 0.7.1 flagged as being stable enough to go into breezy?  It's been the main release of the project for some time, and is quite a lot more stable than older versions.
<siretart> matgates: you can try to recompile the dapper sources on breezy, and ask the backports team to include the package into breezy-backports
<matgates> Just to be clear (I don't have a history of debian use, so it's a little confusing to me), that means to biuld the src deb from the dapper repositories and then make a request how - via bugzilla?
<slomo_> matgates: not bugzilla... write a mail to ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com instead :)
<matgates> ok, thanks.
<zakame> evening all
<Yagisan> G'day zakame
<zakame> hi Yagisan :)
<zakame> ooh there's a debiandevelopers LP team now
<Yagisan> zakame: I decided to do a bit of voodoo magic to get zsnes running on amd64
<zakame> Yagisan: it runs now?
<Yagisan> zakame: yes :) with my helper package
<zakame> w00t! rocking work :D
<Yagisan> zakame: I can now enjoy chrono trigger :)
<Yagisan> zakame: which is as far as I'm concerned, the only reason to install zsnes
<zakame> Yagisan: hehe... I can now imagine you rocking the MOTU Games ship ;)
<Yagisan> zakame: oh, quake4 no longer needs a chroot either
<zakame> hm I reckon quake4 needs a GPU with Pixel Shading right?
<Yagisan> zakame: well, I'll be getting a copy to test soon, but doom3 was the tech demo
<Yagisan> zakame: I'm not sure my 6800LE is good enough
<Yagisan> zakame: -rw-r--r--  1 jamie jamie 1102840 2005-12-05 08:10 zsnes_1.420.orig.tar.gz
<Yagisan> zakame: -rw-r--r--  1 jamie jamie  550469 2005-12-30 00:55 zsnes_1.420-0.1ubuntu2.diff.gz
<Yagisan> O:-)
<zakame> hm I'm pretty much sure the uncompressed diff's bigger than the orig ;)
<Yagisan> zakame: for comparision, -rw-r--r--  1 jamie jamie   13120 2005-12-05 08:10 zsnes_1.420-0.1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<Yagisan> zakame: can you guess what my diff is :)
<zakame> WOW
<Yagisan> zakame: remember, I'm a lazy bugger, that only really does scripting
<zakame> haha
<zakame> wb raphink
<zakame> hm where did we get wxglade last?
<zakame> ah, never mind
<zul> morning
<zakame> hi zul :)
<Gloubiboulga> evening
<Yagisan> siretart: ping
<Yagisan> siretart: I need another package "rehydrated"
<Yagisan> siretart: I upped zsnes to tiber
<Yagisan> siretart: please download, and edit debian/ubuntu.sources.list.txt to point to your dapper mirror
<Yagisan> siretart: then run ubuntu-fetch-and-build-amd64
<Yagisan> siretart: when finished, build source normally, and please load on revu for me
<Yagisan> siretart: this will port zsnes to amd64
<Yagisan> siretart: if the diff is about half the size of the orig after "rehydration", it is fine
<Yagisan> siretart: thank you
<Yagisan> Goodnight all
<Kyral> have there been any abnormalies concerning DNS in Dapper?
<seth_k|lappy> slomo_, hi! you touched mysql-query-browser last... does it segfault on you too in this version, or is it just me?
<JohnnyMast> does ubuntu has heap protection
<sistpoty> hi folks
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<sistpoty> siretart: can you help me with a library packaging issue?
<siretart> sistpoty: perhaps, what is it?
<sistpoty> siretart: a library (new clanlib) produces multiple .so files, with different sonames (like libclanvorbis-0.8-1 libclanmikmod-0.8-1)
<sistpoty> siretart: should I put all these into different binary packages to match the SONAME?
<siretart> sistpoty: I don't think that that is necessary. IIUC, you can expect the soname to be changed along all .so's, no?
<sistpoty> siretart: the soname is different with these shared objects. I'm not quite sure if the soname-version would change for all libs or only for one lib
<sistpoty> siretart: however lintian complains about different soname/libname
<siretart> it does? interesting..
<sistpoty> siretart: the gain might be, that an app compiled against libclanlib0.8-dev might only need some binary packages due to shlibs
<siretart> hm. I'm a bit undecided, and would need to do some more research about that
<siretart> hm
<sistpoty> siretart: ok... library packaging guide also suggests that soname should match... but I'm pretty clueless after all ;)
<siretart> hm
<siretart> libclanlib has some reverse dependencies
<siretart> what exactly do you want to solve?
<sistpoty> siretart: new version must be installable alongside old version
<sistpoty> siretart: problem is that probably some packages will ftbfs if it isn't
<Kyral> hmm
<siretart> uuh, ugly thing..
<Kyral> this is fun lol
<siretart> sistpoty: for what do you need the new libclanlib?
<sistpoty> new games :)
<Kyral> check this out
<sistpoty> such as wormux http://www.wormux.org/en/index.php
<Kyral> my wireless to the net from my Desktop went to heck
<Kyral> so I just connected my laptop to the router and setup FreeNX :D
<siretart> hm. and it needs libclanlib 0.7, which has changed soname. is the new version at least api compatible to the old one?
<sistpoty> siretart: no it isn't
<siretart> hrmpf.
<sistpoty> however I already solved, that new clanlib can be installed alongside old one
<siretart> ok. Now I see the problem
<sistpoty> only -dev packages need to conflict (but that'
<sistpoty> + should always be the case, iirc)
<siretart> perhaps you should file an ITP and contact Filip (the clanlib maintainer in debian)
<sistpoty> siretart: from some reading in bts, Filip is mia... but another guy wants to adopt clanlib, whom I will contact :)
<siretart> sistpoty: even better
<siretart> the bugs of clanlib look like they would need some love anyway
<sistpoty> yep... but I want to put a good proposal of new clanlib to revu, before I start writing mails :)
<slomo_> seth_k|lappy: no idea... i merged it but i have nothing to test it :/ sorry
<seth_k|lappy> slomo_, no worries, thank you :)
<sistpoty> hi slomo_
<siretart> sistpoty: good idea! :)
<siretart> huhu slomo_
<slomo_> seth_k|lappy: just file a bugreport :)
<seth_k|lappy> slomo_, yep ;)
<slomo_> hi sistpoty, siretart
<sistpoty> slomo_: I solved ghc6 issue... was a problem with haskell-utils :)
<sistpoty> (the first time I really could use my haskell-skill or the lack of them *g*)
<slomo_> sistpoty: hehe thanks :) and mythtv too ;)
<sistpoty> slomo_: so you owe me a beer ;) *g*
<siretart> mythtv has been orphaned and needs a new maintainer badly
<slomo_> hmm... mdz doesn't want it anymore?
<slomo_> sistpoty: sure... when we meet some day :)
<sistpoty> :)
<siretart> slomo_: no :(
<slomo_> siretart: we should ask tseng... he uses and needs it afaik :P
<sistpoty> wasn't there some discussion about svn-repos with current packaging development last night?
<siretart> slomo_: oh, good to know
<siretart> sistpoty: huh? did I miss something?
<sistpoty> mom. checking logs
<sistpoty> [00:22:01]  <crimsun> it's actually not mdz's anymore according to http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/163269
<sistpoty> [00:22:23]  <crimsun> though we should definitely coordinate w/ whatever those guys are doing in svn
<siretart> slomo_: libtunepimp is missing a dependency on libmad0-dev. do you know about that?
<siretart> slomo_: I just recompiled it locally, and now amarok can use musicbrainz with mp3 :)
<slomo_> siretart: that's intentional
<slomo_> siretart: we must ship it on cd because of amarok but we can't ship mad on cd
<siretart> slomo_: oh. thats interesting, because mad is in main
<siretart> very annoying. what is the user expected to do in order to get musicbrainz support for mp3?
<slomo_> siretart: change the laws? :) i have a musicbrainz/tunepimp package with mad on my todo list... as another source package in universe... Riddell asked me to do it some time ago
<sethbc> i'd like to volunteer to support a lighttpd package on ubuntu
<siretart> slomo_: ah, ok. this means more or less 'unneeded' duplication
<sethbc> (Assuming of course that no one has satisfied the RFI currently out there)
<lfittl> sethbc: there is already a debian package, that we will get soon
<Riddell> slomo_: the new musicbrainz has loadable modules for different codecs so we can just put the mp3 .so into a separate package.  unfortunatly nothing uses it yet
<Riddell> it's not API compatible
<sethbc> lfittl: i figured, it's been in sid for a little while, just wanted to help things along if i could as i've been using it for a while, and it'd be much more convenient if it were in the repo ;-)
<slomo_> Riddell: ok... hm, are the changes big?
<Riddell> slomo_: I don't think so but e.g. amarok hasn't yet been ported
<slomo_> hm, port it ;)
<lfittl> Does somebody know when new debian unstable packages get synced?
<sistpoty> lfittl: not exactly, but I guess they are synced with the daily MoM runs
<sistpoty> lfittl: at least a new debian package, I was envolved in, was in dapper, when I first found out that it hit unstable.
<lfittl> sistpoty: any idea who I could ask for details?
<sistpoty> lfittl: maybe keybuk? maybe elmo?
<lfittl> sistpoty: k, thanks, will ask keybuk later
<lfittl> sethbc: just wait, I will try to get lighttpd into dapper repos as fast as possible ;)
<tseng> slomo_: hm i dont use it lately
<tseng> slomo_: most things lately seem to be toolchain problems :/
<slomo_> tseng: what other things?
<tseng> mythv problems
<slomo_> what happens there?
<tseng> erm
<tseng> the last couple changes we've made is for gcc changes and stuff
#ubuntu-motu 2006-01-04
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<Kyral> gah
<Kyral> I cannot upload
<Kyral> directly...
<crimsun> ...to?
<Kyral> Oh anything really
<Kyral> but this means most of my package devel is shot for a while
<crimsun> how are you trying to upload?
<crimsun> I use scp for most everything
<Kyral> crimsun
<Kyral> I had a most odd problem
<Kyral> you see. My desktop's wireless lost its friendship with DNS
<Kyral> IP works fine. But anything to do with DNS...nope
<crimsun> can you resolve anything at all?
<Kyral> Nope
<Kyral> example
<crimsun> for instance, host cnn.com 152.2.21.1
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> I cannot ping cnn.com
<Kyral> however I can ping 152.2.21.1
<Kyral> and traceroute whatever
<Kyral> interesting no?
<tseng> ..can you ping your prefered dns server?
<Kyral> I can ping any IP
<crimsun> that host command doesn't work?
<Kyral> including the DNS
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> doesn't work
<Mez> hmm - I need a little help with some packaging - it seems to be really broked :D
<tseng> so switch your dns
<Kyral> I tried
<Mez> I cant get *.install files working
<tseng> 4.2.2.5
<crimsun> sounds like your router/ISP is blocking 53
<Kyral> Actually it isn't
<Mez> tseng: still having problems with it ... :D
<Kyral> because 1) My sister's laptop (on XP) is fine
<tseng> Mez: dude i told you where to look
<Kyral> and 2) My laptop on UBuntu Dapper is fine
<Mez> tseng: I know - and godamn I've looked :D
<Mez> but it still doesnt want to work and I cant see what I'm missing
<Kyral> this morning I realized that I could still use my SSH connection to my laptop (and vice versa) within the Network
<Kyral> so after a couple hours of trying to forward my laptop's DNS through to my desktop. I realized I was being quite stupid
<crimsun> Kyral: following a reboot?
<Kyral> crimsun: I worked on this all last night and NOTHING
<Mez> tseng: remind me of the package again so i can have another look ?
<Kyral> I even hit it with an Ethereal trace
<Kyral> the DNS packet is going out
<Kyral> but nothing is coming back
<crimsun> if it's not getting beyond your router, you'll know the problem is local
<Kyral> I have no idea why
<Kyral> It is going beyond my router
<Kyral> but something is unique to my computer, my wireless card
<Kyral> My MAC prolly wound up on a blacklist somewhere
<Kyral> I just hope that it didn't affect my Ethernet so when I go back to school all will be well
<Kyral> anyway. I realized. My laptop can get to the Net. And I can access my laptop over SSH
<Kyral> so I installed FreeNX on the laptop, scp'd the client deb over to the desktop, and bam. I have internet on my desktop...kinda :P
<Kyral> but it puts a damper on any direct uploads from my desktop...
<Kyral> still need to find out whats going on..but *shrug*
<Mez> siretart: ping
<Kyral> anyone ever hear of DNS problems to only one computer in a LAN?
<siretart> Mez: pong
<Mez> siretart: I'm getting an error 553 when trying to upload to REVU
<Mez> something going on with it
<Mez> ?
<crimsun> speaking of which, I simply can't recover my pass for REVU
<Mez> crimsun - I had that problem
<Mez> I think it still encrypts to siretart ?
<siretart> err 533?
<siretart> thats strange
<siretart> who wanted to upload unrealtournament?!
<siretart> Mez: if you wanted to upload katapult, please retry
* siretart needs to get some sleep, gn8
<Mez> siretart: I guess it was a problem with disk space
<Mez> night siretart
<crimsun> night siretart
<Kyral> night siretart
<Mez> thanks for the help siretart !
<crimsun> wtf
<crimsun> hi michael, good holidays?
<tritium> Hi crimsun.  Yes, very good.  Yours?  Sorry for the delay.  I didn't see a nick highlight ;)
<crimsun> tritium: not bad, just doing some alsa commits locally
<tritium> :)
<psusi> so.. I've got me a source package unpacked with apt-get... I'm fixing the source... how can I build it into a .deb I can install and test, then how can I send the fixes to be included in the next release?
<crimsun_> psusi: assuming you've bumped the version in debian/changelog, just debuild -S
<psusi> ok... explain it to me like I'm 4 years old... I don't really have a good understanding of debian packages other than they are tarballs with install and remove scripts ;)
<crimsun_> then debdiff foo1.dsc foo2.dsc > foo2.debdiff   (where foo2 is your modified one)
<psusi> debuild eh?  hrm... let me see...
<crimsun_> do you have a pbuilder configured?
<psusi> hrm... I don't think so... I just apt-get source package
<crimsun_> oh, you'll want to configure a pbuilder first, then.
<psusi> ok... how/what is that?
<bur[n] er> has anyone played with Rox-filer 2.4 yet?
<crimsun_> psusi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<crimsun_> bur[n] er: I'm working on the merge
<crimsun_> it's a bit problematic, and I need to coordinate w/ Frankie
<crimsun_> partially because we need the patch so it doesn't crash with GTK+ >= 2.8.9
<crimsun_> psusi: many of the tips here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUWannabeTips ) are relevant
<bur[n] er> cool... thanks for the quick feedback crimsun_ :)
* psusi makes with the reading
<seth_k|lappy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1317 can be archived; anthony didn't notice the package was already uploaded.
<Mez> seth_k|lappy, done
<seth_k|lappy> cheers Mez
<seth_k|lappy> ( :D )
* seth_k|lappy runs away
<Mez> :P
<seth_k|lappy> hehe
<seth_k|lappy> how's Katapult coming
<seth_k|lappy> I demand a 0.3.1
<psusi> hrm... so this thing sets up a chroot environment where the package is copied to, then does the configure, make, make install, and looks to see what files in the chroot the make install changed, and puts those into the binary package?
<crimsun_> psusi: pbuilder is just a build environment; you're still responsible for maintaining the debian infrastructure for it
<Mez> seth_k|lappy, it's not tht far away - thats what it'll be when we drop out of baz snapshots :D
<Mez> lol
<Mez> but er ...
<Mez> lol - well :D I can't say when that'll be
<Mez> but - if you wanna ask for stuff etc :D feel free
<Mez> what do you think can be improved
<seth_k|lappy> I wish it were more aggressive about picking up the links in my K menu
<seth_k|lappy> a lot of them it can't find, dunno why
<Mez> seth_k|lappy, newly added ones?
<seth_k|lappy> not really
<seth_k|lappy> several weeks old :P
<Mez> yeah it doesnt update regularly
<Mez> seth_k|lappy, has katapult been re-started since then
<seth_k|lappy> yeah
<seth_k|lappy> mm, not several weeks, hold that
<seth_k|lappy> I just re-installed that app
<seth_k|lappy> but a considerable measure of time
<Mez> lol
<Mez> it needs to be restarted before it picks them up :(
<seth_k|lappy> so it actually caches the contents of the K Menu?
<Mez> thats something wer're working on
<Mez> atm yeah
<seth_k|lappy> ok
<Mez> if only the dcop interface for the MenuManager worked we'd be sorted
<Mez> but it doesnt
<Mez> or is it just for me
<Mez> try this
<Mez> /exec -o dcop kicker MenuManager
<psusi> I hate being kicked by de cops man... ;)
<Mez> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1332
<seth_k|lappy> nope, that didn't update it
<Mez> weird
<Mez> submit  bug in malone with more info
<Mez> https://launchpad.net/products/katapult/+filebug
<zakame> If I intend to package something that was previously missing in Debian that I want in Ubuntu, and during the time I was packaging this there came a version already in Debian, can I still continue my packaging?
<crimsun_> of course, just be sure to base your package off Debian's
<crimsun_> you're free to stuff all the changes [within reason]  into .diff.gz
<crimsun_> I mean, you /could/ continue to use your own package, but beware the maintenance nightmares come Ongoing Merge-time
<zakame> well its NEW, so my packaging is entirely different from debian's
<crimsun_> then it's up to you.
<crimsun_> I /strongly/ recommend you coordinate with the Debian maintainer(s)
<crimsun_> ultimately you want to be able to just push your changes to them so the autosync will kick in
<zakame> ah... yes, I pinged the Debian team to see if they're still willing to have other co-maintainers
<crimsun_> otherwise the maintenance beast is hairy.
<hub> hi
<zakame> hi hub
<Mez> hey hub
<Mez> hows things?
<hub> fine
<Mez> good good
<hub> I'm having pain with atheros driver
<Amaranth> oh man, i hope the gateway i'm getting is the full centrino platform
<Amaranth> i don't want to mess with ndiswrapper
<Lathiat> hrm was unrar-nonfree removed?
<hub> Amaranth: centrino HAS free drivers
<Lathiat> hub: "i hope... is the full centrino platform"
<hub> ah
<hub> misread
<Lathiat> some people have like a centrino cpu
<Lathiat> and throw a broadcom card in or whatever
<hub> Lathiat: like my thinkpad
<Amaranth> it's a pentium m cpu ;)
<hub> an atheros shit
<Amaranth> it won't be called a centrino solo/duo until the yonah comes out
<Amaranth> hub: does it have a centrino sticker on it?
<Amaranth> if it does i'd tell intel, they'll kick some ass
<hub> it does not
<hub> but the website advertised Intel Wireless
<Mez> evening Amaranth, long time no speak
<Mez> how do things go ?
<Amaranth> eh
<Amaranth> i'm stuck on OS X :P
<Mez> LiveCD ?
<Amaranth> broadcom
<Mez> ah
<Mez> ew
<Mez> *huggles*
<Mez> OSX isnt too bad though
<Mez> hough the bling makes my eyes hurt
<Amaranth> no, that's what i'm afraid of
<Amaranth> if it's good enough, why switch back? :P
<hub> Amaranth: there is a driver that almost work
<hub> Amaranth: for the rest....
<Amaranth> hub: I've tried it.
<Amaranth> I mean, only on Ubuntu can I write little programs, get them into the distro, and have thousands of people worship me. :D
<Amaranth> so that's a plus
<Mez> Amaranth - I'm sur eyou can in debian too :D
<Amaranth> debian is too slow
<Amaranth> i need python 2.4, gnome 2.12, and pyxdg 0.15
* Mez is trying to become a DD
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> smeg isnt in debian ?
<Amaranth> they have none of these
<Amaranth> an old version might be
<Mez> Amaranth, none of it is
<Amaranth> i guess it didn't make it
<Amaranth> i'm about to drop alacarte and work on gnome-menu-editor though
<crimsun> you need to run unstable/experimental, then
<Mez> Amaranth: mind if I file an ITP for it - as I'm trying to become a DD - I want to get as many progs in as possible under my name :D
<Mez> lol - and I hope to work with utnubu at some point :D
<Amaranth> the pyxdg dev has gone missing
<Mez> If I can find a contact for them
<Amaranth> so either i take over working on it or i make gnome-menu-editor not suck
<dereks_> SloMoSnail: ping
<Lathiat> anyone know when 2.6.15 is slated for release?
<Mez> Amaranth, which package is pyxdg in ?
<Amaranth> python-xdg
<Mez> ah - I was looking for pyxdg :D
<dereks_> is anyone else having stability problems with banshee?
<crimsun> banshee was a bit crashy last time I checked
<dereks_> crimsun: yeah, crashes when i do anything :)
<Mez> Amaranth, seb128 is the maintainer for pyxdg - he's around still  I saw him the other day
<crimsun> wasn't /that/ crashy for me
<dereks_> just making sure it wasn't me
<Amaranth> Mez: I'm talking about upstream.
<crimsun> seb is very much alive n' kickin'
<Amaranth> Mez: seb128 just packages a new version when i poke him and tell him it's out :)
<Mez> ah
<Mez> Amaranth: python 2.4.1 is in stable
<Amaranth> sure, but python still loads python 2.3, no?
<Amaranth> and python-foo deps on python2.3-foo
<Amaranth> or did they finally finish?
<crimsun> no, they're still on 2.3
<Amaranth> anyway, bzflag time
<hub> about to upload wv 1.2.0
<hub> because AbiWord use it
<Yagisan> evening all
<minghua> hello Yagisan
<Yagisan> minghua: do you have an amd64 box ?
<minghua> Yagisan: no, I am a poor student :-P
<Yagisan> minghua: oh, I was looking for a volunteer to test http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1335
<minghua> Yagisan: trying to find someone testing your hydration process?
<Yagisan> minghua: I am severely limited in my bandwidth until around Jan 10, so I get try to get someone to suck down the final sources
<Yagisan> minghua: Of my package changes
<Yagisan> minghua: which then automagically integrate themselves into the source
<Yagisan> minghua: look at the size of the diff on that package O:-)
<minghua> Yagisan: is this hydration thing documented anywhere?
<Yagisan> minghua: yep, very briefly in README.build of this package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1329
<Yagisan> minghua: I went for the dehydration, rehydration metaphor - as I can ship a small package to someone with bandwidth
<Yagisan> minghua: and it can bulk up to correct size, like some items do when you add water
<minghua> Yagisan: yeah, I like that metaphor
<Yagisan> minghua: I'm using it for proof of concept in getting some i386 only apps to run on amd64
<Yagisan> minghua: At least until we have real multiarch
<minghua> Yagisan: it seems that README.build file is truncated?
* minghua never really understood this bi-arch vs. multi-arch thing
<zakame> hello all :D
<zakame> er do we now have hppa among the build daemons?
<zakame> sparc even
<Yagisan> minghua: more likely is I got distracted by the kids when typing and just shipped the package
<crimsun> zakame: yes, and yes, but only i386, ppc, and amd64 are official
<zakame> ah
<zakame> crimsun: I saw them on the buildlogs for iterm, was a bit surprised :)
<Yagisan> minghua: as I will make further uploads in future, I'll fix it then. First paragraph is all you need to do though
<crimsun> i.e., if ftbfs on hppa and/or sparc, you'll just get a stare from lamont and/or fabbione
<minghua> Yagisan: I think I more or less get the idea
<zakame> ooh
<zakame> is ia64 also not official?
<zakame> (since that's what I usually see, plus the three above)
<Yagisan> minghua: I got a rather creative version going for zsnes.
<zakame> brb
<Yagisan> minghua: I think you'd like my awful, but effective hack to the zsnes rules file
<minghua> Yagisan: interesting, but can't say I like it
<Yagisan> minghua: really ? get's it going though - and zsnes is something that just can't be ported
<minghua> Yagisan: yeah, I am sure it works and I'm not against it.  I just generally don't like quick'n'dirty hacks
<zakame> back
<zakame> so ia64 isn't official right?
<Lathiat> right
<zakame> ah k
<zakame> should close iterm then ;)
<Lathiat> hrm how come when i add some devices to a raid1 array they dont get resynced
<zakame> hm do we really need a pkgname change to libibtik -> libibtk0c2
<ajmitch> evening
<zakame> hi ajmitch :D happy new year
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> so what have I missed over the last week? :)
<zakame> hm that we have just 4 unassigned merges to do? :)
<zakame> (though there's some 200 more assigned)
<ajmitch> 2 of those unassigned will probably be dropped
<zakame> the kernel-di?
<ajmitch> and I've got maybe 1/4 of the assigned merges to do in the next week
<ajmitch> yes
<zakame> ooh
* ajmitch has just been away for a week, and now has nothing but ubuntu to do
<zakame> hehe
<ajmitch> ok, I've got to go & get some food, I'll talk in an hour or so :)
<Yagisan> don't worry ajmitch, I'm sure they will find plenty for you to do.
<zakame> go go go
<zakame> OT: what would be a good http caching proxy to use? I see wwoffle, polipo, and squid among my apt-cache...
<Yagisan> zakame: squid is popular, heaps of docs on it
<minghua> squid is the standard one from what I heard
<zakame> indeed squid is, but this is just for home ;) and one machine
<Lathiat> bleh, mdadm if you try resize a raid1 to 1 disk whinges says thats unusual, use --force you use --force and it says invalid in grow mode :(
<Lathiat> anyone seen that before?
<zakame> waah
<Yagisan> bbl
<minghua> zakame: if just for building packages, maybe try apt-proxy?
<zakame> minghua: not just that, though that's on my list too ;)
<minghua> apt-proxy serves me well, so I don't need an http proxy :-)
<zakame> rocking, I'll try that later :-)
<zakame> I just got pdnsd + resolvconf working so I don't need to twiddle /etc/resolv.conf everytime I move to cafes
* ajmitch returns
<siretart> morning ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey siretart!
<ajmitch> good to see you
<ajmitch> how have things been around here lately?
<siretart> For me things have been rather quiet, because of the holidays and the fact that I will be skiing next week :)
<ajmitch> oh wonderful :)
<zakame> wb ajmitch
<ajmitch> I've been completely away from computers for a week
<siretart> but I finally managed to start NM, now I'm waiting for an AM
<ajmitch> which has been good
<ajmitch> yay!
* ajmitch is ready to get stuck into ubuntu work now
<siretart> huhu zakame
<ajmitch> so in a year or two you might be a DD :)
<ajmitch> current waits for AMs is 2+ months
<ajmitch> unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks
<siretart> the NM statistics say 160 days
<zakame> siretart: w00t
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> so 5+ months just to get an AM
<ajmitch> you got an advocate ok?
<siretart> well, in that time, I will have to keep on looking for sponsors. not that much of a problem
<ajmitch> yeah
<siretart> yes, nobse advocated me
<ajmitch> great
<siretart> he usually sponsors me for debian uploads
* StevenK waves to ajmitch.
* ajmitch waves over to StevenK 
<siretart> huhu StevenK
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ready to get stuck into Ubuntu work? All of the merging is basically done.
* zakame wonders when he would start NM
<ajmitch> StevenK: 219 are assigned
<ajmitch> and we've got a *lot* more to do after merges
<StevenK> Can you go through it?
<zakame> (well, at least until elmo does the sync ;)
<siretart> does anyone have pointers why debian is still with python 2.3 as default?
<ajmitch> I've also got main feature goals to hit
<ajmitch> siretart: ask doko
<ajmitch> it's waiting on his python-central stuff
<ajmitch> which was deferred until around now
<ajmitch> once that big change hits debian & ubuntu, the 2.3->2.4 delta will go away
<Lathiat> python-central?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yep
<ajmitch> Lathiat: btw hi ;)
<Lathiat> what that? :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: hi :)
<ajmitch> wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonRoadmap
<siretart> that would take away a great deal of divergence we currently have
<siretart> ah, so that is what he is waiting for.. I see
<ajmitch> well, he's not waiting for it
<ajmitch> he's doing it :)
<zakame> hm for shlibs, is it ok just to have something like libXYZ (>= 1.4.0.b9) than libXYZ (>= 1.4) ?
* StevenK buggers off to the shops.
<ajmitch> zakame: I think so, check the man pages ;)
<zakame> ok, thanks ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> sad to see people flaming about nexenta on the devel list
<zakame> 'coz I decided to push libmemcache to debian instead of universe :)
<zakame> yeah, snr just got a bit higher :(
<siretart> ajmitch: I find that other thread, about the fluedo plugin similar annoying..
<ajmitch> certainly
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<Gloubiboulga> could any MOTU have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1315 ? Thanks :)
<Hieronymus> Gloubiboulga: I'm not MOTU, but it might be nicer to have "Texmaker integrates..." instead of "It integrates..."
<Hieronymus> Gloubiboulga: in the description
<Gloubiboulga> Hieronymus, indeed
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: it's qt, why didn't you say so.  poke me for qt/kde stuff :)
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: clic -> click
* Hieronymus doesn't like the three dots at the end of the description
<Hieronymus> Gloubiboulga: the .desktop has an absolute path to the icon
<Riddell> yes, that line should be "click and a "structure view" of the document for easier navigation."
<Hieronymus> you want Icon=texmaker
<Hieronymus> not Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/texmaker.xpm
<Hieronymus> also, you must specify Version=0.9.4
<Gloubiboulga> ok ok
<Hieronymus> you can use desktop-file-validate :)
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: the icon should probably be PNG
<siretart> Riddell: Say, why does the current amarok package have such strict builddeps on kdelibs?
<Riddell> siretart: libstdc++ transition maybe?
<siretart> and there is another annoying builddep on libtunepimp2-dev
<Hieronymus> oh, and in debian/copyright, I think you should say that /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 is the GNU General Public License Version 2, not the GNU General Public License.
<siretart> Riddell: if I make them unversioned, I can rebuild the package in breezy. it works here quite nicely
<siretart> Riddell: I'm asking because if those versioned depends were dropped, I think it would be a candidate for breezy-backports
<Riddell> kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.5-rc2)  that will be the libstdc++ transition
<Gloubiboulga> Hieronymus, Riddell  thanks
<siretart> Riddell: what do you think, can we take them out? kde has already been transitioned
<Riddell> siretart: yep, go ahead and change it if you want.  or I can do it
<siretart> Riddell: ok, will do it
<siretart> just a sek
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: since it's "gpl 2 or later" you can point to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL not /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<Goshawk_> hi
<Goshawk_> i've a litte repo, there i uploaded one package for amd64, now i want to build the one for x86, is there a way to accomplish this?
<Goshawk_> i've also a x86 connected to the web (and so it can reach the repo)
<Hieronymus> Goshawk_: you can run x86 on 64+ Athlons
<Goshawk_> yep, but in this 64 i've just ubuntu 64
<Goshawk_> breezy x86 is on another pc
<Goshawk_> is there a command that et the source from my repo
<Goshawk_> and compile it?
<siretart> Riddell: I just fired up a new amarok with weakened build deps.
<Goshawk_> then i'll dupload it
<Goshawk_> and all will be well done
<Riddell> Goshawk_: apt-get source foo
<Riddell> or wget the source
<Riddell> Goshawk_: you can use a 32bit chroot on amd64
<Goshawk_> uhm... 32 bit chroot is a good solution
<Goshawk_> is there a tutorial?
<tseng> man debootstrap
<Goshawk_> it will be like a toolchain (that is not good mainteined in ubuntu)
<tseng> ...what?
<Goshawk_> yep
<Goshawk_> in breezy toolchain-source
<Goshawk_> has binutils at 2.15
<Goshawk_> and gcc-3.4
<Goshawk_> while breezy has gcc-4.0
<Goshawk_> and binutils 2.16
<tseng> (what in the world are you talking about)
<tseng> apt-get source gcc
<Goshawk_> and people say that is not a good thing compile things with gcc-3.4 and mix them with gcc-4.0
<tseng> gcc-4.0
<Goshawk_> i'm talking about cross compiling with toolchain
<Lathiat> neither was tseng?
<Goshawk_> tseng, but after that i build a chroot with debootstrap should i compile all the libs or can i use apt-get?
<tseng> i have no idea what you are on about at this point
<tseng> if you make a 32 bit chroot with debootstrap, chroot to it, you can install things with apt and use them 32 bit
<Goshawk_> ok.. you got me
<tseng> 'linux32 chroot /chroot/breezy32'
<tseng> should work pretty much as expected
<Goshawk_> this seems the easiest way
<tseng> until multilib, yet
<tseng> *yes
<Goshawk_> instead if i should compile for ppc i need a toolchain, isn't it?
<siretart> Goshawk_: better avoid cross compiling, if you can
<zakame> evening all :D
<siretart> Goshawk_: debian packages are generally not expected to be crosscompiled. there are many pitfalls on the way
<zakame> wow elmo's back :)
<Goshawk_> siretart, i've just a amd64 laptop, and i need ppc package (in an early future)
<siretart> Goshawk_: get a ppc
<siretart> Goshawk_: or ask someone with a ppc to build your package
<siretart> huhu zakame. yes, he answered our sync requests :)
<Goshawk_> siretart, why not a toolchain with toolchain-source?
<siretart> 15:28:32 < siretart> Goshawk_: debian packages are generally not expected to be crosscompiled. there are many pitfalls on the way
<zakame> YAY!
<Goshawk_> ok
<siretart> Goshawk: if you really want to build them yourself, you could try to emulate a ppc with qemu or stuff
<siretart> but I'd really rather avoid crosscompiling
<Goshawk> yes, i did it for x86, it was too huge and slow...
<zakame> wb JohnnyMast :) happy new year :)
<JohnnyMast> now already?
* JohnnyMast checks the date
<zakame> JohnnyMast: well, just a little more than a day before ;)
<JohnnyMast> :p
<zakame> anyway, how are your merges going? :)
<JohnnyMast> yeah :D ,thanks same for you
<JohnnyMast> im in the UK atm with me girl soim not working on any
<zakame> I see you still have a few going ;)
<zakame> w00t
<Yagisan> re
<JohnnyMast> they are already fixed zakame
<JohnnyMast> others uploaded a merge for me and sayed theywould fix it
<JohnnyMast> atm i only have 1 open
<zakame> JohnnyMast: kiki seems open, have you checked this?
<JohnnyMast> that was one that was fixed by one other
<JohnnyMast> i only have trimity open i think
<JohnnyMast> yes it is
<zakame> JohnnyMast: snake4 is still open
<JohnnyMast> and fixed
<zakame> and python-libgmail too
<JohnnyMast> ow wait zakame ... all merges on my name are done execpt python-libgmail
<zakame> JohnnyMast: er I don't think so :( snake4 definitely is untouched, it's still ivok's last merge from breezy in dapper
<JohnnyMast> hmm
<JohnnyMast> ile look in to it when im back the 7th
<zakame> JohnnyMast: hula is open too as well
<zakame> JohnnyMast: rock on then, just pinging you about those ;)
<zakame> wt seems the MOTU list is grabbing addys for spam, I'm seeing dupe spam :(
<zakame> even motu-reviewers too :(
<Gloubiboulga> Riddell, I've just uploaded the new package (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1336)
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: there's no icon in the menu
<Gloubiboulga> :/
<Riddell> you need to cp /usr/share/pixmaps/texmaker*.png into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/*/apps/
<Gloubiboulga> Ok, I do it now
<Riddell> groovy
<zakame> gn8
<Yagisan> when is the cutoff date for new universe packages ?
<siretart> Yagisan: with upstream version freezy, mid january
<Kyral> Morning MOTU
<psusi> morning
<Kyral> I have a rather...interesting question
<Mez> sup Kyral
<Kyral> Are there facilities in Debian/Ubuntu for building RPMs/Slackpacks/eBuilds
<Mez> Kyral - alien will work with rpms
<Mez> not too sure bout slackpacks/ebuilds
<Kyral> I mean not Alien
<Mez> but i'm sure you can make them somehow :D
<Kyral> I mean building them the right way
<Mez> ah - you can probably get the tools and build them manually
<Mez> but i dont know if theres anything available generally
<Kyral> yah...
<Kyral> okay thats what I thought
<Mez> butn then i dont know what tools are used
<Mez> not built any of those
<Kyral> I'm adapting Ubuntu to our Linux Lab build
<Kyral> and I figured if I included the Debian development tools, I should somehow provide for those
<Mez> I'm sure you can get the dev tools for those
<Mez> whether they'll work
<Mez> why not just provide chroots to those OS's
<Kyral> Adapt PBuilder?
<Mez> no
<Mez> just chroot :d
<Kyral> well, also PBuilder so it would provide the same functionality to those formats
<hub> Kyral: the thing is that distribution differ enought to not be compatible when it comes to package formats
<Yagisan> Kyral: IIRC we do have rpm, but why do you need to build rpms etc ? Easier to do it in a chroot, and you'll match the right install libs too
<Kyral> Yagisan: like I said this is for a Linux Lab. Not everyone there uses Ubuntu/Debian. So I thought that if I included the Debian tools, I should at least provide the tools for other formats
<Kyral> besides, you gotta admit, if I pulled it off, it would be awesome
<Kyral> well that wasnt supposed to happen
<Gloubiboulga> Riddell, the package is uploaded: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1337
<siretart> Mez: around?
<Mez> siretart: yeah
<Mez> sup ?
<siretart> Mez: I think that amarok is ready for backport, I did it here on my laptop and it runs fine
<siretart> Mez: I uploaded a new amarok earlier today which should build in breezy fine
<Mez> siretart: I'll have a look at it in a mo - is it on the REVU server anywhere?
<siretart> Mez: the backported version is on my laptop, the new amarok is in dapper
<Mez> ah ok :D
<Mez> fair enough
<Kyral> gak...
<Mez> 1.3.7-0ubuntu4 ?
<Kyral> FreeNX is going unstable
<siretart> yeah
<Mez> cool
<Mez> checking now
<Mez> theres nothing that's going to break is there?
<siretart> I didn't check that much
<siretart> I'm having a pretty mixed breezy/dapper system here
<Mez> no I mean like - API/ABI transisions :D
<siretart> I just uploaded a new version that doesn't ftbfs in breezy
<Mez> lol
<Kyral> I think my connection is fubaring
<Mez> I dont think it'll ftbfs
<Mez> but will it install on breezy?
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> anyone here use breezy and want to try the .deb?
<Mez> brb
<Mez> reboot
<Riddell> Kyral: where?
<Kyral> Riddell: huh?
<Riddell> Kyral: freenx
<Kyral> What about it?
<Riddell> Kyral: you said "FreeNX is going unstable", what does that mean?
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: looks good
<Kyral> I meant my connection to it at that time :P
<Kyral> but according to Seveas the latest version IS unstable
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: that's two advocates now, want me to upload?
<Riddell> Kyral: ah, fooey, not that it's going into debian unstable
<Kyral> lol
<Riddell> you got my hopes up there
<Kyral> The one in the Wiki works fine
<Riddell> 17:42 < Riddell> Gloubiboulga: that's two advocates now, want me to upload?
<Kyral> someone vote on EasyChem </not so subtle hint> ;P
<Gloubiboulga> Riddell, sure :)
<Gloubiboulga> my first uploaded package :D
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> I thought the REVU day was supposed to clear out REVU lol
* Kyral sighs and stops complaining
<Riddell> revu is never cleared out
<Kyral> meh
<Kyral> normally I wouldn't be complainging, but its been more than a month since I made the effort to fix all the bugs that ajmitch and slomo noted :P
<siretart> Kyral: which package?
<Kyral> EasyChem
<Riddell> Kyral: I've already noticed two more I'm afraid
<Kyral> eh?
<Kyral> bug?
<Mez> Riddell:seeing as youre in here - is it ok wth you if i add a small patch to yakuake ? to get rid of the "notification" window i it's a restoredsession ?
<Kyral> Don't say a thing about the patch system
<Riddell> Kyral: two minor issues http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1257
<Riddell> Mez: be my guest
<Kyral> this is gonna be a trick uploading it
<Riddell> Mez: any idea why whn I start yakuake it says "Uh oh.. can't write data.."
<Riddell> Kyral: why?
<Mez> Riddell : cheers :D I've sent to upstream but it's the one  thing i hate most about
<Kyral> this desktop doesn't have internet access
<Kyral> well, rather
<Kyral> DNS doesn't work
<Kyral> I'm talking to you via my Laptop with FreeNX :D
<siretart> a french TODO.. interesting
<Mez> Riddell, at a guess - it's trying to write it's config but you have strange chmod permissions
<Kyral> so unless I can put the IP for REVU unto my dput.conf...
<Riddell> Kyral: well I can change it, am compiling now, if I don't find any more problems I'll fix and upload
<Kyral> NMU?
<Riddell> ubuntu doesn't do NMU, since we don't have MU
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> if I can I'd like this to be my first package in universe ;P
<Mez> Kyral : titan2005@gmail.com
<Mez> grr
<Mez> Kyral Name:   tiber.tauware.de
<Mez> Address: 69.60.114.100
<Kyral> lol
<Mez> dman klipper :D
<Kyral> yah DNS doesn't resolve (for some reason) on my wireless
<Kyral> So I'd put the IP in the fqdn field?
<Mez> Ridell: surely in yakuake the autoconf stuff should be done before packaging ?
<Riddell> Mez: that's the usual way, but it doesn't have to be that way
<Mez> Riddell: mind if I change it ?
<Riddell> Kyral: easychem seems good, want me to upload?
<Kyral> yah if you would :D
<Kyral> my first package to Universe
<Riddell> Mez: actually isn't there a debian yakuake package now?  we should merge with that
* Kyral feels fuzzy
<Riddell> Kyral: you do reaslise this is me reviewing a gtk package.  it means when you're a MOTU you have to promise to revu all the KDE packages
<Mez> Riddell: will do :D
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> I don't care about the whole fight between GTK/Qt
<Kyral> Personally I use Fluxbox :D
<Mez> Riddell: the md5sums on the orig.tar.gz dont match
<Mez> yay
<Kyral> and we have to see about me becoming MOTU first ;P
* Kyral thanks Riddell a lot
<Riddell> Kyral: uploaded, see comments http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1257
<Riddell> Kyral: it needs to pass through NEW, keep an eye on dapper-changes for it appearing in the next few days
<Riddell> Kyral: then make sure it builds properly, then apt-get it and make sure it all still works
<Seveas> Riddell, hell will have to freeze over before NX will move into debian
<Kyral> Riddell: I have a unique situation lol
<Kyral> Evoluition is down somewhat
<Seveas> the core is simply a modified xfree86 3.x server, which means duplicate code, duplicate bugs...
<Kyral> so my filters are shot :P
<Riddell> Kyral: use the archives I guess
<Kyral> I'm AFRAID to open my GMail Account right now :P
<Kyral> Considering all the MLs that go there
<Riddell> Kyral: might be good to tell upstream and to file a wnpp at debian, not sure what the best practice is there
<Kyral> wnpp?
<tseng> work needed / please package
<Riddell> debian's itend to package module on bugs.debian.org
<Riddell> intend
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> so I can't just hand it to Debian...
<Kyral> I have to be more formal ;P
<Riddell> saying "have package in ubuntu, please someone review and upload to debian"
<Riddell> well that is how you hand it to debian, unless you know a friendly debian developer who'll do it for you
<Kyral> It builds in Breezy BTW
* Kyral looks for ajmitch ;P
* ajmitch is not here
<Kyral> It was a joke ;P
<Kyral> I should become more involved with Debian at somepoint
<ajmitch> so should I
<Kyral> roflmao
<Riddell> Treenaks: coming to lugradio live?
<Treenaks> Riddell: yeah
<Kyral> oh EasyChem builds in Breezy. I got bored one day and ran it through my pbuilder
<Kyral> ^Breezy
<ajmitch> Kyral: I'd expect it would
<Treenaks> Riddell: I'm going to describe the crack that's planned for dapper+1 (or, that's the plan ;))
<Riddell> lets throw out apt!
<Treenaks> Riddell: let's throw out ALL C++!
<Treenaks> ;)
<Kyral> Throw out Apt....*shudder*
<Riddell> a python only operating system!
<Kyral> Isn't that Portage...?
<Treenaks> Riddell: written in self-hosted python
<Kyral> but yah Python owns
* Riddell looks around for any ruby types just incase things could get nasty
<tseng> where did unrar-nonfree go?
<Riddell> do I archive in revu stuff I've uploaded immediatly or after it's done NEW and compiled?
<Mez> Riddell, yes
<Kyral> actually better question...why is a BitTorrent Tracker starting at boot in a fresh install?
<Treenaks> Riddell: they can have rubuntu
<Riddell> Kyral: you've been 0wned?
<Riddell> Mez: whit?
<tseng> bt starts for everyone in dapper
<Kyral> Riddell: ...
<Treenaks> uh..
<Treenaks> WHY
<tseng> because its a bug
<Kyral> yah, I jumped to Dapper then the tracker was loading
<tseng> bt is in the desktop seed
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> Freaked me out
<tseng> and no one disabled the initscript by default yet
<Mez> do I archive in revu stuff I've uploaded immediatly or after it's done NEW and compiled?
<tseng> actually its off
<tseng> just the initscript is noisy
<Kyral> wait...so its off, but still echos?
<tseng> /etc/default/bittorrent
<tseng> its off
<tseng> (thats exactly what i just said)
<Kyral> okay
<Mez> Riddell, uploading yakuake 2.73-1ubunt1
<Mez> u1 *
<Mez> brb
<bddebian> Heya your MOTUnesses..
<Kyral> holy its bddebian
* Kyral hugs bddebian
<bddebian> Heh :-)
<Riddell> Mez: uploaded to revu or dapper?
<Mez> dapper
<Mez> lol
<Mez> though I think I may have cocked it slightly
<Mez> yes i did
<Mez> though no katie output
<Riddell> no dapper-changes
<Mez> yeah :D It should go through now :D
<Mez> lol
* Mez forgot to dch -D dapper
<Riddell> tsk
* Mez hasnt had katie output since september
<ajmitch> oh man, bddebian is here?
<bddebian> Heh, yeah so watch out
<Kyral> lol
<Mez> watch out bddebian's about
* Mez hums the "beadle's about" theme tune to himself
<Mez> Riddell, accepted
<Mez> though - er ...
<Mez> no katie output
* Mez growls
* bddebian picks his nose
* ajmitch reassigns        ~.
<Mez> which one did you choose bddebian ?
<bddebian> Mez: ?
<Mez> you was picking a nose
<Mez> I assumed you were liek - at a plastic surgeons
<Kyral> hmm
<bddebian> Mez: Oh, hehe
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> if I installed pdnsd...woiuld I be able to use my laptop as a DNS proxy for my Desktop..
<LaserJock> hi all!
<Gloubiboulga> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: I see texmaker got reviewed
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, yep, Riddell has just uploaded it :)
<LaserJock> there will be a lot of TeX users happy about that
<LaserJock> bbl
<Mez> siretart: ping
<siretart> Mez: pong
<Mez> siretart: amarok is ok build wise - i've sent a test request to the mailing list as i've no way to test if it works atm
<Mez> :D
<Mez> once it's confirmed - i'll request it
<Mez> but looking good so far
<siretart> ok
<Mez> siretart: also why is yakuake shpwing up in sistpoty's script
<Mez> theres no MOM request for it
<ajmitch> Mez: so you plan to be the MOTU/Utnubu person now? :)
<Mez> ajmitch - i hope to work with the utnubu team in the future - yes
<ajmitch>    yakuake |    2.7.3-1 |      unstable | source, i386, powerpc
<ajmitch>    yakuake | 2.7.3-0ubuntu2 |        dapper | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
<siretart> Mez: nothing hinders you to talk to joachim ;)
<Mez> ajmitch - yeah i know - i just synced but was looking to close the mom bug
<siretart> some time ago, he was even in this channel
* ajmitch had plans to do stuff with utnubu as well, etc
<Mez> siretart, what was that referring to ?
<Mez> ajmitch, good :D
<ajmitch> except real life got in the way
<siretart> Mez: working in/on utnubu
<ajmitch> now I'm an unemployed bum, so it doesn't matter ;)
<Mez> lol - ajmitch - i think utnubu is a great project - it just needs more... focus
<siretart> it mainly need manpower
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> people who can review the junk in ubuntu
<ajmitch> since we still have plenty
<ajmitch> (eg apt-get.org imports)
<Mez> siretart/ajmitch :D totally agree :D hence why i plan to help
<Mez> but - as I said
<Mez> it's a long road
<ajmitch> so help, don't just plan to help ;)
<ajmitch> you don't need to be a DD to start
<Mez> ajmitch: I know :D already got a package in waiting :D
<Mez> lol - it's my package - but meh :D
<Mez> taking it in baby steps so I can refine my packaging to be more ... debian-esque
<ajmitch> I've got *lots* of free time now
<Mez> talking of free time
<Mez> I gotta go
<Mez> work
<ajmitch> bye
<Mez> ajmitch, lemme know if you spot anything ba in that package
<ajmitch> k
<Mez> oh, and in response to \sh about me not being around - I've had problems at home - no net access - been homeless for a while - but I'm back now - so :P
<siretart> hi womble
<womble> Hi siretart
<ajmitch> morning womble
<ajmitch> you're up early :)
* womble yawns
<bddebian> Mez: Sorry to hear that
<womble> Need to Get Things Done before it gets too damned hot
<siretart> and also watching our lovely ubuntu-motu mailling list ;)
<siretart> aah, you down unders.. here it is -8C ;)
<bddebian> Doh..
<ajmitch> siretart: thankfully -motu is a little easier to catch up on than -users
* bddebian needs to get off his arse and join that ML
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, you need to just do work
<bddebian> Yeah, that too :-(
<bddebian> I've been busy killing Germans for the last week or so.. ;-P
<siretart> ajmitch: you are so right.. ;)
<ajmitch> so do I
<womble> My apologies for spamming u-motu@... <grin>
<ajmitch> I don't mind :)
<ajmitch> I like having something to read
<bddebian> So I should try to fit some MOTUness in between finishing Call of Duty 2 and starting Dungeon Siege II? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: no
<womble> bddebian: That's crazy talk
<womble> Get back to gaming
<ajmitch> bddebian: you should do MOTUness instead of finishing Call of Duty 2 and starting Dungeon Siege II
<bddebian> ajmitch: Too late, I finished Call of Duty 2 last night :)
<siretart> womble: your post are very very welcome :)
<womble> I wondered if it was good form doubling the daily post rate.  <grin>
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> womble: so are you going to join the ranks of those who are DDs & MOTUs?
<womble> ajmitch: In some way, certainly.  I'm not sure if what I want to do requires a MOTU badge, though.
<ajmitch> what are you wanting to do?
<womble> Steal Ubuntu's good ideas for Debian, of course.
<ajmitch> now that I see your post on the mailing list, I can connect a name to a blog ;)
<Treenaks> non-profit spies?
<ajmitch> womble: a worthy goal
<womble> Merge as much Ubuntu work back into Debian, mostly.  Both package code and useful infrastructure (like REVU)
<ajmitch> womble: makes our job a lot easier ;)
<womble> ajmitch: Ayup.
<womble> And I despise divergence
<ajmitch> certainly
<ajmitch> I try & keep my packages identical in debian & ubuntu
<ajmitch> I'd like to see the REVU ideas getting a wider audience
<ajmitch> currently we're reworking it, and it'll use launchpad for authentication, which isn't ideal for debian
<womble> It would be handy if you could think about making the REVU codebase flexible enough to handle other uses, but worst case it'll just get butchered or rewritten for Debian
<womble> I'm aching to do an OSS Rails project -- it's all in-house stuff at work
<ajmitch> sadly for you it's done with python :)
<ajmitch> we'll try & make it as flexible as needed
<womble> <shrug>  I hack plenty of python, too.
<ajmitch> I still do enough debian work to want improvements there
<womble> I figure any work I do to improve Ubuntu that isn't Ubuntu-specific is wasted effort -- I'd much rather apply it to it's true source (Debian, for the most part, as I don't have commit access to many upstreams) and then everybody benefits.  That's the main reason I haven't worked on Ubuntu stuff more heavily (that, and I suffer from lackoftimeitis)
<ajmitch> while I like working on debian, I still see benefits in doing the work in ubuntu to get things in shape for a 6 month release cycle
* ajmitch gets another debian upload underway, finally
<ajmitch> 20MB orig.tar.gz takes awhile
<siretart> wow. whats that?
<ajmitch> phpgroupware
<ajmitch> and debian needs binary uploads as well :)
<siretart> ah, I see
<ajmitch> I need to find a host with some decent bandwidth to upload from
<ajmitch> since I'm not sure how long the timeout is
<siretart> ajmitch: tiber? ;)
<ajmitch> perhaps
<ajmitch> depends if I can use a sid chroot there to build my package
<ajmitch> where 'building' is mainly copying files around, being php
<Gloubiboulga> good night
<dereks_> how can i tell if a package was compiled with support for a certain component?
<womble> dereks_: Check depends for libraries, etc for the component; check debian/rules in the source package for configure --with-* options
<womble> Check build logs for the package to see if there's mention of enabling/disabling support; check changelog for historical mentions of switching on/off support
<dereks_> womble: ok thanks
<womble> nm or strings over the binaries... <grin>
<siretart> ajmitch: where, there is a sid pbuilder
<Kyral> Pbuilder hmm?
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, might be useful then
<ajmitch> pbuilder & debrsign might be enough for me :)
<Kyral> You cannot create the Sid PBuilder directly
<ajmitch> Kyral: excuse me?
<Kyral> You cannot make a Sid PBuilder like you make a Sarge or Breezy Builder, if I recall correctly
<ajmitch> you could the times that I've tried
<Kyral> hmm
<ajmitch> since that's the main purpose of it
* Kyral shrugs
<siretart> Kyral: we have several wrappers for different tarbals on tiber
<Kyral> like I said it was been a while
<ajmitch> must have been
<Kyral> maybe it was Etch that I had to upgrade
<Kyral> sorry
<siretart> ajmitch: but don't forget to call 'pbuilder-sid update' ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: oh I know ;)
<ajmitch> where oh where has my metacity configuration dialog gone to?
<ajmitch> it's all very well telling people to use gconf-editor, but it's rather annoying
<Kyral> gconf reminds me of the Windows Registry
<siretart> yes, but I don't have a problem when it is implemented like gconf
<psusi> why is that?
<psusi> the registry has the advantage that changes are transaction logged, and you can set granular ACLs... not to mention it's significantly better in terms of disk space and access speed
<siretart> the best registry i've seen so far is /sys.
<psusi> that's not a registry at all... that's kernel runtime status
#ubuntu-motu 2006-01-05
<bddebian> Later folks
<Kyral> cya
<tseng> Mithrandir: someone is working on some really sexy stuff for openbox :)
<tseng> Mithrandir: gradient themes that look as nice as metacity
<Kyral> Yanno, the more I read about Python and examine it, the more I like it
<crimsun> Python is neat.
<Kyral> Then I should learn PyGTK
<womble> Kyral: I highly recommend it.  Pretty neat way to build a GUI app.
<Kyral> indeed
<womble> Orders of magnitude easier than trying to do it in C
<Kyral> I haven't tried
<Kyral> but going through POinters in class made me HATE C
<crimsun> for great headaches, use wxpython
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> oh yes
<Kyral> but first I master Python
* ajmitch did a project with wxpython
<womble> wxpython gave me the Fear
<womble> I've never used it myself, but PyGlade seems like a good way to get a GUI app happening quickly
<ajmitch> I really don't like RC bugs where I don't know what is breaking, and upstream gets confused as well
<womble> Draw the page, link the actions, run the app, hooray!
<ajmitch> ah that's right, I need to ask for syncs today
<ajmitch> top of the list is php4-sqlite, which you fixed
<raphink> pfff
<raphink> spam on motu-reviewers
<raphink> :(
<Kyral> get this one in #ubuntu
<raphink> Kyral: ?
<Kyral> < CentHOGG> I heard ubuntu bought debian the other day
<raphink> haha
<raphink> and Google bought Microsoft, too ?
<raphink> ;)
<tseng> it was on everyone love lugradio
<raphink> oh no
<Kyral> Actually....that would be good wasn't it...
<tseng> or was it everone loves eric raymond
<raphink> that must have been that Microsoft gave up the Windows code to Google ;)
<raphink> for free ;)
<raphink> ;)
<Kyral> yah right
<Kyral> and the sky is purple with pink and neon green polka dots
<raphink> oh you knew that?
<Kyral> roflmao
<raphink> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/clique
<raphink> that's what you're talking about?
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> afternoon tseng
<raphink> lol
<raphink> hi ajmitch
<tseng> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> I think I need to get some conflicts removed from mono-mcs
<ajmitch> since it's been unnecessary for a year or so
<tseng> pnet?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I got some weird urge to fix some RC bugs in debian & update it to the latest upstream
<ajmitch> the f-spot one still bugs me
<gborzi> hello all, is there anyone ?
<raphink> gborzi: hello
<gborzi> I'm a new kubuntu user (1 month), but an old linux one, since 1995. I have made some packages I would like to share.
<raphink> sure
<raphink> did you make sure they don't exist in ubuntu or debian yet?
<raphink> taht's the first thing to check gborzi
<gborzi> Some of the packages are not yet in ubuntu, other are based on new version of the upstream software. how should I made the packages available ? I' reading the ubuntu wiki on how to become a member/manteiner/developer, but I'm confused.
<gborzi> Sorry, I made a too long message.
<raphink> did you read about REVU yet gborzi ?
<raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<gborzi> I'm reading, but the process is not yet clear.
<raphink> revu is the web based system for new universe packages to be included in Ubuntu
<raphink> if you want to add your package to Ubuntu, after checking it is not yet available in either Ubuntu (dapper, not breezy) or Debian unstable, you can get added to the REVU keyring and start uploading your packages to REVU
<raphink> they will then appear on the list on http://revu.tauware.de/
<raphink> so MOTUs (masters of the universe, the guys mastering the universe stuff in Ubuntu) will review your packages
<gborzi> So I do not need to became a manteiner/member/etc ?
<raphink> and as soon as you get 2 advocacies for a package, up they go ;)
<raphink> nope gborzi
<raphink> you don't need to be a member to submit packages
<raphink> just have a pgp key
<raphink> and have it added to the REVU keyring
<raphink> siretart: you there?
<gborzi> Ok, I'll look the revu
<raphink> crimsun_: hello
<crimsun_> raphink: hi
<raphink> :)
<raphink> crimsun_: gborzi would like to get new packages in Ubuntu.
<raphink> are you able to deal with adding his pgp key to the keyring?
<raphink> (his or her, sorry if I was wrong on this ;))
<gborzi> I'm a male.
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<raphink> you have a pgp key gborzi ?
<crimsun_> raphink: ajmitch is a REVU admin iirc
<raphink> k
<raphink> ajmitch was around a short time ago ;)
<gborzi> Yes, I've made it today.
<raphink> I think siretart and ogra are also able to add the keys, if i'm not wrong
<raphink> oh, very new key then :)
<raphink> did you sign your packages with it?
<ajmitch> you'll need to put it on a keyserver
<gborzi> only the latest packages.
<gborzi> I'm very new to the use of pgp keys
<ajmitch> all packages will need to be signed to be uploaded
<raphink> gborzi: as ajmitch says, you need to export your key to a keyserver, e.g. mit
<gborzi> how should I do ?
<raphink> gpg --export-key --key-server hkp://pgpkeys.mit.edu $yourkey
<raphink> if I remember well
<raphink> not totally sure
<raphink> check man gpg
<gborzi> it says: gpg: Invalid option "--export-key"
<raphink> --send-keys
<raphink> that's the option
<ajmitch> gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --send-keys 5921b5d8
<ajmitch> for example
<raphink> :)
<ajmitch> replace 5921b5d8 with your own keyid
<gborzi> I used the command: gpg --send-key --keyserver hkp://pgpkeys.mit.edu
<gborzi> It didn't complained
<raphink> --send-keys
<ajmitch> raphink: you can use either
<raphink> oh ok
<gborzi> What's the keyid
<gborzi> ?
<raphink> --send-key is not documented in gpg --help
<raphink> gborzi: gpg --list-keys
<raphink> since you've only got one key, it'll give it your key id
<gborzi> the command says:
<raphink> gborzi: since you said you're using kubuntu, kgpg can be a nice soft to use ;)
<gborzi> pub   1024D/FE613ED3 2005-12-30
<gborzi> uid                  Giuseppe Borzi <gborzi@ieee.org>
<gborzi> sub   2048g/276A70FE 2005-12-30
<raphink> FE613ED3 is your key id
<raphink> ;)
<gborzi> ok. And now ? should I go to http://revu.tauware.de/
<gborzi> ?
<raphink> now you need to get your key added to the keyring
<raphink> so you might ask ajmitch nicely to add it ;)
<gborzi> how can I add the key to keyring ?
<raphink> ajmitch will gborzi
<raphink> you won't do it
<raphink> wait till your key is on the server
<ajmitch> it's not on the keyserver yet, that I can see
<raphink> and then he'll addit
<gborzi> ok, will I receive a notification email ?
<raphink> I doubt so gborzi ;)
<raphink> not from the keyserver at least
<ajmitch> gborzi: the usual procedure is for you to send a signed message to keyring@tiber.tauware.de asking to be added, after your key is on the keyserver
<raphink> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/FE613ED3.html
<raphink> when this page works, your key is up ;)
<ajmitch> raphink: that can take a week or two
<ajmitch> it's not nearly that slow
<raphink> hmm
<crimsun> should only take a night or two
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> yeah I remember when I updated my key with my new add, it took about a week
<ajmitch> gborzi: please, use gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --send-keys FE613ED3
<gborzi> Done. Maybe I'm annoyng you with my questions, but after that ?
<ajmitch> send a signed email to keyring@tiber.tauware.de to ask for an upload account
<ajmitch> this is a good way to keep a record of people asking, and to get your email address
<raphink> gborzi: what are you using to send emails ? kmail?
<gborzi> No, I use mozilla. How can I sign an email ?
<ajmitch> quoting from a mail sent to someone else:
<ajmitch> "An account for revu will be created on your first upload.
<ajmitch> You can then retrieve your password with the lost password-feature of revu1.
<raphink> gborzi: you need to set up your email client
<ajmitch> Your login will be your email adress.
<ajmitch> "
<raphink> gborzi: search google or the wiki for mozilla configuration for pgp encryption
<ajmitch> iirc, it's enigmail or something named similar
<gborzi> raphink: ok, I was looking at the mozilla mail client.
<raphink> mhm
<ajmitch> http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
<raphink> ajmitch: yes bells a ring here ;)
<raphink> although I prefer kmail :)
<ajmitch> enigmail is in ubuntu
<ajmitch> as mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail (if you're using thunderbird)
<gborzi> I'm installing enigmail for mozilla
<raphink> gborzi:
<raphink> http://lrcressy.com/linux/mozilla.pdf
<raphink> `mini' howto they say
<raphink> lol
<raphink> `just' 42 pages
<gborzi> thanks
<gborzi> or 1.5 M
<raphink> you cannot possibly fail with such a tutorial ;)
<gborzi> A good reading for tomorrow. It's true that one never ends to learn.
<raphink> sure we learn everyday :)
<raphink> (hopefully)
* raphink learned a lot of things on oobase2 today :)
<gborzi> Among the packages I have made there are xcircuit and scilab.
<raphink> I don't know these
<gborzi> These are already in debian, but are quite old.
<raphink> they are in ubuntu aswell
<raphink> what versions did you package?
<gborzi> Xcircuit is for drawing circuits, I use it to prepare the examinations.
<gborzi> the current version is 3.4.10, but that in debian is 3.1.x, about 2 years old
<raphink> what are the versions of each app that you packaged?
<raphink> we have Version: 3.1.19-1ubuntu1 in dapper
<gborzi> for scilab is 3.1.1, in debian is still 3.0
<raphink> Version: 3.0-12
<raphink> this is scilab version in dapper
<gborzi> Why are they so old ?
<raphink> which must be debian version anyway, since it's a debian versioning
<raphink> gborzi: because they weren't maintained ? ;)
<gborzi> maybe !
<raphink> there are about 18.000 packages in Debian
<raphink> for about 1000 DDs
<gborzi> DDs ?
<raphink> it's hard to get all this maintained and kept up-to-date
<gborzi> developers ?
<raphink> DD = Debian Developer
<raphink> yep
<gborzi> besides these two I have also made: glest (www.glest.org) and RTS game
<raphink> when you look at the ubuntu packages, you can see what packages were directly taken from Debian, and which ones were either merged from Debian (with changes) or added to Ubuntu directly
<raphink> from the version number
<raphink> packages numbered with -X are Debian ones
<ajmitch> xcircuit isn't maintained anymore in debian, perhaps you could do that, gborzi :)
<raphink> packages numbered with -XubuntuY are either merged from Debian or created in Ubuntu
<raphink> X being the Debian versioning if taken from Debian (X=0 for new packages in Ubuntu
<gborzi> I know the versioning system. I used XubuntuY for the packages I have made
<raphink> ajmitch: did I read on motu-reviewers that someone (you?) was working on making d-mentors similar to REVU so we can upload to it and get new packages in Debian first?
<ajmitch> actually xcircuit might be maintained again soon in debian, looking at the bug
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=323678
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 323678: "xcircuit -- Draw circuit schematics or almost anything" Package: ITA, Maintainer: wnpp@debian.org</a http://bugs.debian.org/323678
<ajmitch> raphink: not myself, but womble
<raphink> oki
<gborzi> for both xcircuit and scilab I made the packages from scratch, so i used 0ubuntu1
* raphink learned about wnpp lately, but didn't complete his bugs :s
* raphink thinks the Debian way for new packages is very complicate
<raphink> gborzi: :)
<ajmitch> raphink: the 'debian way'?
<ajmitch> what do you mean?
<gborzi> I'm here
<womble> raphink: Yep, that's me.  No idea whether it'll take off yet; I'm evaluating what Debian already has available ({sponsors,mentors}.debian.net) before wading in with yet another option
<raphink> ajmitch: I mean filing bugs for the wnpp package and so on
<ajmitch> raphink: when you have that many developers, you need some structure
<raphink> womble: I take it you're a DD then ;)
<womble> Indeed I am
<raphink> ajmitch: sure
<ajmitch> even we have developed a fair bit of structure, eg with merges
<crimsun_> gborzi: ...err, both of those packages are in Debian
<raphink> ajmitch: I just think the whole thing about maintaining packages in Debian is very discouraging
<raphink> to me at least
<crimsun_> gborzi: or do you mean you're co-maintaining them?
<ajmitch> raphink: I disagree :)
<raphink> I've been learning to package ever since april
<raphink> I'm beginning to package properly (or so I believe)
<raphink> and yet I need to learn more to get my packages in Debian
<raphink> and deal with bug reports
<raphink> and find sponsors
<raphink> and so on
<ajmitch> yes, that's expected
<raphink> it's not the easiest way to contribute
<gborzi> crimsun_: no, I have remade them, and I was proposing to upload these packages
<ajmitch> debian has a reputation for quality for a reason
<ajmitch> we don't want people to dump packages in & not care about bugs
<womble> Oh my god, dealing with bug reports.  It's criminal what they make you do in Debian.  </sarcasm>
<crimsun_> gborzi: have you discussed your changes with the maintainers?
<raphink> ajmitch: hmm yes but doesn't that discourage some people from contributing sometimes ?
<ajmitch> womble: today is a good day, I've got 3 RC bugs that will be killed on upload :)
<gborzi> crimsun_: no, I haven't.
<womble> Yeeeehah!
<crimsun_> gborzi: cos using a different debian/ base == (maintenance nightmare)++
<womble> Stomp those RC bugs
<ajmitch> raphink: it can, but the alternative is group maintenance, which is also happening
<raphink> ajmitch: especially in ubuntu I'd say
<raphink> it seems there's more group maintenance in Ubuntu than in Debian 'core'
<raphink> (seems to me that is)
<crimsun_> well yes, we are a team per se.
<raphink> :)
<gborzi> crimsun_: I don't want to become the nightmare of anyone, only share some package
<crimsun_> this connection is driving me nuts
<raphink> gborzi: and it's appreciated that you share your work :)
<crimsun_> gborzi: I think you'll find it more worthwhile to coordinate infrastructure changes with [Debian]  upstream
<raphink> gborzi: you might work on the package with Debian and then work on syncing/merging them in Ubuntu
<gborzi> I can propose debian to use newer upstream sources
<raphink> s/package/packages/
<crimsun_> it's a real problem come MoM time
<raphink> gborzi: it seems a bug was already filed for xcircuit in Debian
<ajmitch> yay for segfaults
<ajmitch> looks like I won't be uploading this today
<raphink> lol
<crimsun_> my fav is the segfault for locate in Dapper
* raphink lost his key on this comp and has to wait to be back home to get it back :(
<raphink> no signature since two days ago :(
<gborzi> It's not a bug problem, it's an upgrade problem. Debian uses upstream sources 1/2 years old for scilab and xcircuit
<gborzi> What's the point in debugging an old code ?
<raphink> gborzi: upgrade pb deserves a bug in Debian
<raphink> the bug is : version too old. needs upgrade ;)
<raphink> and the debugging for this is : upgrade the package ;)
<gborzi> Or a new package from scratch ?
<raphink> gborzi: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=262321
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 262321: "New upstream release available (v3.2.22)" Package: xcircuit, Severity: wishlist, Maintainer: David Z Maze  http://bugs.debian.org/262321
<ajmitch> raphink: see the other bug, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=323678
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 323678: "xcircuit -- Draw circuit schematics or almost anything" Package: ITA, Maintainer: wnpp@debian.org</a http://bugs.debian.org/323678
<gborzi> 3.2.22 new ? current version is 3.4.10
<gborzi> It seems that bug wasn't fixed
<raphink> gborzi: bug #262321 is more than 1 year old
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
<raphink> and indeed it wasn't fixed
<raphink> Ubugtu: go to bed :p
<gborzi> And if debian doesn't fix, a new package can be made in ubuntu, I hope
<raphink> gborzi: the bug ajmitch quoted last says the package is orphaned - i.e. searching for a nice maintainer to adopt it
<raphink> gborzi: Ubuntu is nothing without Debian
<raphink> we haven't got the manpower Debian has
<raphink> and most of the work in Universe is to sync/merge packages from Debian
<ajmitch> and we most likely never will have the manpower that debian has, for good reasons
<raphink> Ubuntu improves Debian, and Ubuntu is based on Debian
* ajmitch detests CVS, really
<raphink> so the best way to get this package upgraded in Ubuntu is to get to be its maintainer in Debian
<gborzi> OK, so I should propose the new package to debian
<raphink> gborzi: you should upgrade the already existing package in Debian
<raphink> get a sponsor for it
<raphink> and when the package is upgraded in Debian
<gborzi> A sponsor ? how ?
<raphink> merge/sync in to Ubuntu
<womble> ajmitch: More surprising is that there are some people who *don't* detest it
<womble> gborzi: http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html
<ajmitch> womble: I know, it's really quite surprising
<raphink> http://sponsors.debian.net/
<ajmitch> womble: btw, are you going to be here for LCA?
<raphink> gborzi: since quite a lot of Ubuntu devs are DDs, you might find a sponsor here maybe ;)
<ajmitch> more the main developers, few MOTUs are also DDs
<raphink> ok
<gborzi> OK, but from the previous discussion it seems it is a nightmare to become a DD
<ajmitch> you don't have to be a DD to contribute
<raphink> gborzi: you don't need to become a DD (which is a nightmare, really)
<raphink> gborzi: you just need to find a DD to sponsor your work
<gborzi> OK, and after the sponsor ?
<ajmitch> you go on with life, maintaining the package, asking the sponsor to upload updates, etc
<raphink> when a DD sponsors your work, the package will get uploaded to Debian
<raphink> when it's available you can work on syncing/merging it in Ubuntu
<raphink> and having it uploaded by a MOTUs (equivalent to DDs in Ubuntu)
<gborzi> OK, who wants to sponsor me ?
<gborzi> for xcircuit ?
* raphink is no DD :s
<gborzi> BTW, I have also packaged keytouch. I have found this program reading the ubuntu wiki, but it's not in dapper
<raphink> gborzi: http://sponsors.debian.net to find sponsors
<gborzi> Although it's mentioned in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware
<ajmitch> top of that page say 'software we want to get in'..
<raphink> This page lists software we want to get into the Ubuntu distribution in terms of enhancing the Accessibility features.
<raphink> we want to get into ...
<raphink> gborzi: so this is a good candidate for REVU imo
<raphink> a new package to be added in Ubuntu specificaly
<gborzi> which is the process for keytouch ? Do I need another sponsor ?
<raphink> gborzi: you better upload keytouch to REVU once you're allowed to
<raphink> imo that's the best way for this one
<raphink> since it's a new package
<raphink> gborzi: either way, wait till your key is on the keyservers
<gborzi> I'll do. Along with glest. Another package I have made is gnokii. In dapper is at 0.6.8, but current version is 0.6.10.
<raphink> you won't be able to contribute to either Debian or Ubuntu before this is done
<ajmitch> it's on the keyservers
<raphink> ok :)
<gborzi> And 0.6.8 doesn't work with my C350
<gborzi> Good night to everyone and thanks for the answers.
<raphink> good night
<raphink> time to sleep here too ;)
<ajmitch> remember to send that email to keyring@
<womble> ajmitch: Yep, I'm going to LCA.
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> time for me to wander off
<raphink|sleep> ajmitch: I'm wondering about something
<raphink|sleep> if I got a package into Ubuntu with -0ubuntu1
<raphink|sleep> and then I get it in Debian as -1
<raphink|sleep> should I sync it again as -1ubuntu1 to Ubuntu ?
<raphink|sleep> if it's the same upstream version?
<raphink|sleep> :s
<womble> raphink|sleep: I think it should be synced as -1
<raphink|sleep> so if I manage to get my package in Debian
<womble> Unless it has Ubuntu-specific bits, in which case you base your new packaging off the Debian -1 and call it -1ubuntu1
<raphink|sleep> I'll have to synce them afterwards
<womble> raphink|sleep: At least the first time, yes, I think
<womble> But if the -0ubuntu1 and the -1 are source-identical, then there shouldn't be any problem syncing
<raphink|sleep> so that proves it's better to get all new packages in Debian, no?
<crimsun_> from a Ubuntu maintainer's perspective, certainly
<raphink|sleep> hmm
<womble> Ayup.  That way you don't have to do anything to get both Debian and Ubuntu love
<raphink|sleep> so ideally, REVU shouldn't exist
<womble> raphink|sleep: In a perfect world, perhaps.  Not in this one, though.
<raphink|sleep> haha
<raphink|sleep> well I mean
<raphink|sleep> packagers should be encouraged to upload new packages to Debian
<raphink|sleep> rather than ubuntu
<raphink|sleep> trying to understand as best as possible ;)
<womble> There's some transitions that Ubuntu has gone through that Debian hasn't yet, some maintainers are crap with handling their patches, and sometimes you want Ubuntu-specific branding in the package.
<crimsun_> smack. Got vlc building with firefox-dev.
<raphink|sleep> hmm
<raphink|sleep> I still don't get how Debian can be so slow when it's got so many DDs
<cyberix> slomo_: Someone juat complained on another channel that Debian leaves IPv6-support out when they compilet GNUnet.
<cyberix> slomo_: Do you know anything about this?
<crimsun_> that's part of the reason it can be slower, raphink|sleep
<raphink|sleep> and Ubuntu can be ahead with less manpower (although mostly using DDs's work)
* crimsun_ goes for dinner
* raphink|sleep goes to bed
<raphink|sleep> bye
<cyberix> slomo_: Like, if there is a specific reason or, if it is left out just by mistake.
<womble> raphink|sleep: You got it in one -- mostly using DDs work.  There's also the fact that a MOTU can wade in and complete a transition with little synchronising, whereas the Maintainer God Lock (Ubuntu's term for it, not mine) means that in Debian you've got to convince a bunch of people that your solution is the right one.
<LaserJock> anybody about?
<ajmitch> yep
<Lathiat> nope
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi Lathiat
<Lathiat> yo
<ajmitch> hey Lathiat, LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's it going? I haven't been on irc for over a week
<ajmitch> neither have I, really
<LaserJock> and my parents dialup is driving me nuts
<LaserJock> 28.8
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I just didn't use their computer
<LaserJock> well, I am going to try to get plotdrop to use DESTDIR and see if I can get a new upload today
<ajmitch> it should only take about 30 seconds :)
<LaserJock> well, normally it would ;-)
<ajmitch> normally? :)
<LaserJock> well, with the dialup and all, it is a little slow
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I wonder why python-nevow binaries are 2 versions behind
<ajmitch> ah, debian bug, requires merge
* ajmitch might as well do yet another merge
<ajmitch> sigh, massive debian-dropped.patch, for no good reason
<ajmitch> MoM was working against the wrong version
<rory> hey
<rory> anyone here I can ask a quick question to?
<Lathiat> SUre
<LaserJock> there should be somebody
<rory> just trying to figure out why Azurues isn't in backports or any other ubuntu repo I can find.
<Lathiat> well we now have a jre in multiverse
<Lathiat> so i suppose it could be possible for a package to exist
* Lathiat looks at the license
<rory> plf has jre 1.5
<minghua> I think last time people tried to compile azureus with the free java stack it didn't work out
<Lathiat> yeh it doesnt
<Lathiat> but the sun 1.4 is in multiverse which it works with
<rory> could it just be compiled against 1.5 in plf?
<minghua> or maybe they tried to run the upstream jar in a free java envrironment and it didn't work out
<minghua> either way azureus doesn't play well with free java
<Lathiat> 14:04 < Lathiat> but the sun 1.4 is in multiverse which it works with
<Lathiat> it runs on ikvm
<Lathiat> but the network code doesnt work :)
<rory> does azureus 2.3.0.6 needs jre 1.5?
<Lathiat> so it just sits there and does nothing :)
<Lathiat> rory: no
<Lathiat> im running it here fine on the 'j2re1.4' package from multiverse
<rory> okay, so that's good.
<rory> And debian repos have a working package too, I notice.
<Lathiat> working package of?
<rory> azureus
<minghua> I think I've run azureus 2.3.0.2 with sun jre 1.4.2 before, it complains but still work
<rory> I have jre 1.5.  I'm pretty sure I grabbed 2.3.0.6 from debian.
<rory> http://debian.wow-vision.com.sg/debian/pool/contrib/a/azureus/
<rory> So, given this, what would need to be done to get an Ubuntu package?
<Lathiat> needs to be tested
<Lathiat> building from source
<Lathiat> i assume that package is built from source
<Lathiat> guess it may not be
<rory> I think it is.  See the last package listed here:  http://fatboy.umng.edu.co/debian/pool/contrib/a/azureus/
<rory> what do you think?  Doable?
<minghua> debian's azureus seems to be built with sun jdk 1.5
<minghua> do we have that in multiverse?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: can you look at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6405 and tell me what is wrong with my use of PREFIX ?
<ajmitch>  prefix is where files are meant to live, and changing PREFIX like that just isn't nice
<ajmitch> it's 'ok', but I don't like it :)
<ajmitch> especially if an install target for some reason put the value of PREFIX into some files
<LaserJock> so should I replace PREFIX with DESTDIR? I am just not getting what the difference between the two would be
<Kyral> LJ
<ajmitch> yes, there is a difference, and it's one that doesn't matter much for this package
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I am just wondering because the Makefile doesn't use DESTDIR so I would have to patch it to include it
<ajmitch> you're already patching it
<Kyral> LJ: Riddell uploaded EasyChem into the system, with hope it will be in Universe soon
<LaserJock> yeah, but I wanted to keep the delta down
<ajmitch> DESTDIR is a commonly used standard
<LaserJock> ajmitch: so what was not good was changing the PREFIX within the rules file?
<ajmitch> nothing 'wrong' with setting it to /usr, as that is commonly passed to configure
<LaserJock> but then setting to something else later is bad form?
<ajmitch> pretty much
<LaserJock> ok, so would I do something like $DESTDIR $PREFIX ?
<ajmitch> it could cause problems in packages if they did other things with PREFIX in the install rule
<ajmitch> you'd generally only have PREFIX set once, in the makefile
<ajmitch> which you'd set with your patch
<ajmitch> and then make install DESTDIR=...
<LaserJock> ahh, ok. The orginal makefile sets it to /usr/local/
<LaserJock> PREFIX that is
<ajmitch> in the makefile you have $(DESTDIR)$(PREFIX)
<ajmitch> although it's often $(DESTDIR)$(bindir) ,etc
<ajmitch> since files in /etc live outside the prefix
<LaserJock> ok, so I want to change PREFIX to /usr and add a DESTDIR to the Makefile and then only use DESTIDIR in debian/rules, right?
<ajmitch> yep
<LaserJock> ok, I think I am wrapping my thick chemist brain around that one ;-)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, so how does http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6406 look like for the modified Makefile?
<LaserJock> maybe I should put $DESTDIR in the BINDIR= and DATATDIR= instead
<Yagisan> G'day All,
<Yagisan> Has anyone pulled off an error like this before -> gl_hq2x.c:304: internal compiler error: in convert_move, at expr.c:367
<ajmitch> Yagisan: it's called a gcc bug :)
<ajmitch> they float around from time to time
<ajmitch> LaserJock: looks reasonable, I think
<Yagisan> ajmitch: ok. I'll use less aggressive cflags then.
<Yagisan> ajmitch: you don't have an amd64 box do you ?
<ajmitch> I wish I did
<ajmitch> do you want to buy me one?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: nope - just some quick checks of amd64 hacks for zsnes in revu
<Yagisan> ajmitch: wanted some feed back - if it is ok
<ajmitch> ah
* ajmitch is trying to get patches to apply again
<Yagisan> ajmitch: you will be either amazed at the simplicity, or horrified by the hackery involved :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1335
<ajmitch> great, it applied..
<ajmitch> crap, >700KB diff
<Yagisan> ajmitch: so, which package are you beating into submision
<ajmitch> one of mine in debian
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I've been forging ahead with my ia32-libs-universe package while you were on your break
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> hm strange, this didn't run configure
<Yagisan> ajmitch: hopefully, I'll get some motu's go - wow, isn't that a useful package - let's give some suggestions on how to make it better, and include it in dapper
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> ok, this is one broken tarball
<ajmitch> I love upstream's release process, really..
<ajmitch> hi minghua, pef
<pef> hello
<minghua> hi ajmitch
<Mez> morning ajmitch :D
<minghua> Hi, an offtopic question here -- but I asked in #ubuntu but got no response: does anyone know how locales work in dapper?
<minghua> does anyone know where the _installed_ locale data is saved?  I've looked at /usr/share/locale, /usr/share/locale-langpack, /var/lib/locales, the first showes everything, the latter two only show the localed installed through language packs.
<minghua> I am wondering where the locales locally installed by locale-gen is
<minghua> I am having some problems with my input method, and I suspect it's locale-related
<crimsun>   * debian/preinst: Rescue /etc/locale.gen to
<crimsun>     /var/lib/locales/supported.d/local on upgrades.
<crimsun> it doesn't tell you otherwise? hmm.
* Yagisan reads problems with input method and is suddenly less keen to upgrade to dapper
<minghua> crimsun: my system is in a quite bizarre state now, I debootstrapped breezy and dist-upgraded to daper long before these locales packages transition thing
<minghua> and I had en_US.UTF-8 (among others) in "locale -a" output
<minghua> but now I don't have any language pack installed, and I have an empty /var/lib/locales/supported.d/ (i.e., not local file)
<crimsun> right
<crimsun> looks like that was introduced in 2.3.7-1
<crimsun> you probably want to pass a list of languages and locales to locale-gen
<minghua> then I installed language-pack-en-base and langugae-pack-en, and I have a /var/lib/locales/en now, but still no /var/lib/locales/local
<crimsun> judging from Martin's changelog
<minghua> yet my "locale -a" shows en_US (iso-8859-1) and zh_CN.GBK, so I am wondering if they are indeed installed (they are, judging from manipulating $LANG)
<minghua> therefore I'm wondering where is the correct place to check
<minghua> /var/lib/locales/supported.d/local is just going to be a list anyway, it seems to me the real locale data has to be stored somewhere else
<crimsun> /usr/share/locale/ , judging from the man page for localedef
<minghua> crimsun: thanks for the help
<minghua> I think I'll dig deeper
<zakame> afternoon all :D
<Gloubiboulga> hello zakame
<zakame> heya Gloubiboulga :)
* Mez makes modifications to signkey.pl
<zakame> where?
<Mez> zakame - I just got a lil bored - and I remembered people at UBZ moaning it didnt clean the key :D so I added key-cleaning stuff to it :d
<Mez> lol
<Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/files/signkey_cleaning.patch
<siretart> Mez: where is signkey.pl?
<siretart> morning
<Mez> siretart: http://www.netsplit.com/software/signkey
<Mez> siretart: It's just a lil patch :d but I think it's a nice complement to the script :D
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> maybe I should include examples?
<siretart> what are the advantages over caff?
<zakame> Mez: w00t
<Mez> siretart: none - it's just an alternative script :D
<Mez> not saying you should use the script - just that my addition is good for those who do :D
<zakame> hehe
<Mez> it makes the difference of having this: http://www.sourceguru.net/files/clean_signed_key.txt
<Mez> instead of this: http://www.sourceguru.net/files/unclean_signed_key.txt
<Mez> in your emails
<Mez> thats an extra 9Kb for my key - imagine someone like lamont's
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> updated the patch to check for pgp-clean
<Mez> anyhoo
<Mez> off tobed
<Mez> night
<zakame> bye Mez
<tepsipakki> there are ancient kernels in dapper (universe, 2.4.27 etc), why?
<siretart> tepsipakki: I agree that they should be removed
<siretart> good point for our mailing list
<tepsipakki> were they synced by mistake?
<siretart> well, we autosync everything by default
<tepsipakki> oh, ok
<siretart> we blacklist rather whitelist for syncing
<tepsipakki> are the same blacklists applied to all versions?
<tepsipakki> I mean, it's funny that they were added for dapper ;)
<siretart> I'm not exactly sure
<siretart> do you want to ask the mailing list or should I ask?
<tepsipakki> I can do that
<siretart> ok
<siretart> best to both ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-motu
<siretart> thank you
<tepsipakki> np ;)
<tepsipakki> hmm, where was the timeline for dapper to be seen? deadlines etc?
<lfittl> tepsipakki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<tepsipakki> thanks!
<tepsipakki> there are newer versions for libnss-ldap and libpam-ldap available for some time now, I'd like to see them in dapper. There are others too
<tepsipakki> I'll try to make packages available for others to see
<minghua> aren't libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap in main?
<minghua> no, they are indeed in universe, sorry
<tepsipakki> yes, they should be in main if the NetworkAuthentication-spec is finished (?)
<tepsipakki> libpam-ldap got two security updates for breezy, so it's not entirely unsupported ;)
<sivang> anybody know if we have a good package for pythob-glade?
<sivang> err, python-glade
<sivang> the one in the repo seem to be compatible with pygtk-1.2
* minghua wonders why the new eog in dapper is so chatty
<slomo_> cyberix: no idea
<cyberix> slomo_: Could you ask further?
<cyberix> slomo_: as in ask the Debian developer
<cyberix> slomo_: It can ofcourse then be disabled by default.
<tseng> cyberix: you could file a bug in debian
<slomo_> cyberix: i'll write it on my todo list... i'll do it after banshee ;)
<cyberix> ok
<slomo_> and i'll write elmo a mail about gnunet-gtk
<cyberix> tseng: As always. Filing bugs and creating bug database accounts in billion different places is just too anoying.
<slomo_> you don't need a account there
<slomo_> just write a mail :)
<tseng> cyberix: then by that token, coming onto irc and bothering slomo_ to fix your bug in someone elses package is just "too annoying"
<slomo_> cyberix: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<cyberix> tseng: Not coming, because I'm always on irc already.
<tseng> too annoying to us, I mean
<tseng> not a fact, just a comparison
<cyberix> tseng: You may tell me gnunet bugs you find in change.
<cyberix> tseng: As long as they are trivial
<cyberix> :-)
<cyberix> tseng: But I'm already bothered by this. The one told me could have filed the bug himself.
<tseng> exactly
<cyberix> tseng: There is certainly a reason why he didn't. It just isn't easy enought yet.
<cyberix> tseng: But when the chain is getting closer to the actual developer
<tseng> (he cant send an email?)
<cyberix> tseng: Filing the bug gets easier.
<tseng> yes, you keep passing a trivial ammount of effort up a chain
<tseng> i think everyones time might have been better served teaching a man to fish
<tseng> or in this case.. filing his own bug
<tseng> he wouldnt be afraid of it the next time
<cyberix> tseng: No, because in the end you just can't fish everything yourself.
<tseng> i dont understand
<tseng> if you show an end user how to file a bug, what problem remains?
<cyberix> tseng: Well he could just fix the bug, because neither that is often hard to do.
<tseng> im not sure we are even talking about the same thing anymore
<cyberix> Maybe.
<cyberix> Apple had a www bug-reporting text field IIRC
<cyberix> write and click
<tseng> great well, debian has a simple email interface
<cyberix> Thats easy I think
<tseng> it takes about 2 minutes of reading to understand
<cyberix> Yes, if you care to do so
<tseng> if you dont care to do so
<tseng> i fail to understand why anyone else should care to help you
<cyberix> With the Apple system you didn't have to
<tseng> this is the crux of the issue
<Treenaks> the horcrux?
<Treenaks> (yes I know what 'crux' means :))
<cyberix> tseng: Well, I believe software creators want feed back.
<cyberix> tseng: Also from the average user who is too lazy to learn how to file bugs.
<tseng> if you are too lazy to file a bug, you are surely too lazy to come up with a gdb backtrace
<tseng> among other things
<tseng> but im pretty tired of arguing now
<cyberix> tseng: Yes, but these are different people
<tseng> (file bugs in bugtrackers, please and thank you)
<cyberix> :-)
<cyberix> How about creating a community between lazy users and bug databases
<cyberix> :-)
<slomo_> create one
<cyberix> Currently having way too much other tasks
<thesaltydog>  I can't find any clear documentation to help myself in understanding how "launchpad-integration" works on Help Menus...
<slomo_> thesaltydog: the easiest way to understand it is probably by looking at the patches that add it... at least for python it is really easy, shouldn't be much harder in C
<thesaltydog> slomo_, tnx
<thesaltydog> slomo_, found. liblaunchpad-integration!
<slomo_> oh you only needed the package name...
<Gloubiboulga> hi JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> Gloubiboulga hellow :)
<Yagisan> G'day All, Happy New Year
<JohnnyMast> Yagisan thanks m8
<Yagisan> try to stay sober while coding ;)
* Yagisan reads scrollback
<Yagisan> I was wondering, is there any future plans to integrate reportbug into launchpad ?
<minghua> yeah, it's really a shame reportbug doesn't work in ubuntu
<thesaltydog> slomo_, I was looking into lauchpad-integration package
<thesaltydog> and I may have some questions.
<thesaltydog> as I am upstreaming my packages in debian pool, maybe it is needed some ubuntu-patch for launchpad integration..
<Yagisan> minghua: yep - I miss some of the automatic package dependencies it can bring up amongst other useful package details eg cfg files
<minghua> Yagisan: yeah, and system info - I really hate to ask bug reporter "what release are you using, breezy or dapper?"
<Yagisan> minghua: I once made a really sophisticated reportbug script, it grabbed all sorts of info, cpu, total ram, kernel version, data versions, crash logs, and cfg files
<Yagisan> minghua: I was able to use it to filter out all the errors cause by users
<Yagisan> minghua: of all the bugs ever reported with it only 1 was a true bug
<minghua> Yagisan: I wrote a reportbug script recently as well, and I really liked that
<Yagisan> minghua: I'll see if I can find mine. I was working on that package a short while ago
<Yagisan> minghua: found it. 7k of reportbug script goodness
<minghua> Yagisan: it's not an official package?
<Yagisan> minghua: nope. not yet (possibly not ever in the same form as the upstream release is)
<Yagisan> minghua: I need to rip 66% of the functionality out for it to get in
<Yagisan> minghua: so I'm waiting for the next upstream release to see if it is fixed yet
<minghua> Yagisan: I am jealous that you get bugs reported by reportbug for unofficial packages
<minghua> Yagisan: I can't even get my bug reporters to use reportbug for my official packages :-)
<minghua> (or any bug reports in BTS at all for that matter)
<minghua> Yagisan: what is the issue?  shared library with no API/ABI stability (I vaguely remember you do some video related stuff)?
<Yagisan> minghua: I have to patiently train them to use it - but as it is a popular, but niche game, (and I'm the only person to package it and almost all data packs for it), they end up doing it
<Yagisan> minghua: the is, in a nutshell is - not dfsg compliant
<minghua> ah licensing issue, that's harder to solve, I suppose
<Yagisan> minghua: I have an interest in amd64, thin clients, security, multimedia, multilingual support, and the odd game - so that's where I concentrate on in ubuntu
<minghua> my official package is actually in a niche market too
<minghua> not that a lot of people need input methods
<Yagisan> minghua: yep. I can a) delete the code, b) wait for upstream to replace the code, or c) do it myself
<Yagisan> minghua: it's b) until there is no hope, then it will be a)
<pkern> Yagisan: So what are you talking about? ;)
<Yagisan> minghua: your the scim guy right ?
<minghua> see, another potential user :-)
<minghua> Yagisan: yeah
<Yagisan> pkern: doomsday
<Yagisan> pkern: doom source port - my out of date page is here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.en.html
<Yagisan> pkern: it's out of date, because of 1) I packaged more add ons
<Yagisan> pkern: and 2), as of 15 seconds ago - I got it running on amd64 :-D
<pkern> Hehe.
* minghua can't bare with 1st-person shooting games
<pkern> I have anything in my head about license issues with, I guess, Heretic or so.
<minghua> it just makes me dizzy :-)
<Yagisan> minghua: I'm one of you happy customers
<minghua> Yagisan: glad to hear that.  you use scim-anthy I suppose?
<Yagisan> pkern: bingo, heretic and hexen. I won't touch the other ports, it's so intermingled with others
<pkern> So you're Jamie Jones ;)
<pkern> Looking at Debian bug #319419
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 319419: "doomsday - greatly improved engine to play doom, doom2, heretic and hexen" Package: ITP, Severity: wishlist, Maintainer: wnpp@debian.org</a http://bugs.debian.org/319419
<pkern> Heh, Ubugtu :D
<Yagisan> minghua: I need an irony smiley. had great scim-anthy for hoary. not so much for breezy
<Yagisan> pkern: yes
<minghua> Yagisan: so you are using some other Japanese IM engine now?  It really surprises me that while some IM engine in breezy works, some don't
<minghua> I was always thinking it's an g++-4.0 issue
<minghua> apparently not
<minghua> Yagisan: I hope scim-anthy in dapper works fine
<pkern> Yagisan: Are "only" those files listed at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=264816;msg=15 a problem?
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 264816: "combines incompatible, non-dfsg licences" Package: doomlegacy-sdl, Version: 1.41release-1., Severity: <em, Maintainer: Debian QA Group  http://bugs.debian.org/264816
<sistpoty> hi folks
<minghua> hi sistpoty, happy new year
<sistpoty> hi minghua, happy new year to you as well
<minghua> (or one day too early?)
<sistpoty> few hours left for me
<Lathiat> Sat Dec 31 22:28:26 WST 2005
<minghua> I am still 8:00 in the morning
<Yagisan> pkern: sorry - had to duck out
<pkern> np (:
<Yagisan> pkern: It's much worse then that
<pkern> Yagisan: So esentially no hope?
<pkern> Yagisan: Only if Raven's convinced to relicense?
<Yagisan> pkern: for Doom only - it is fine. there are a few files left in heretic that were not rewritten - hexen - no chance
<Yagisan> pkern: Raven is the issue. the issue is Activision which now owns Raven
<Yagisan> s/Raven is/Raven isn't/
<minghua> hmm, activision owns infocom as well, I don't like this company
<gborzi> hello, is there anyone ?
<Yagisan> Activision just doesn't understand the concept of open source. They take a free license, and attach a standard eula to it, making the whole lot invalid
<sistpoty> gborzi: sure ;)
<sistpoty> gborzi: hi
* Yagisan waves at gborzi
<Yagisan> pkern: If I were to remove heretic and hexen, would you still be interested in doomsday ?
<gborzi> I want to upload some packages to revu, I have already received an email notifying me about the
<gborzi> insertion of my key to revu
<gborzi> But what should I do now ?
<gborzi> i.e. how to upload ?
<sistpoty> gborzi: have you looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU yet?
<gborzi> thanks, I have opened the page
<Yagisan> pkern: most users, said no - they would rather the unofficial package
<Yagisan> minghua: yep I have uim-anthy atm. It has it's own set of unique bugs :( I for one, look forward to your scim-anthy in dapper
<gborzi> It seems I need a program named dput
<minghua> Yagisan: I see.  UIM is a nice piece of software as well (and I plan to try it one day, for the possibility to input without X)
<sistpoty> gborzi: just apt-get install dput
<gborzi> sistpoty: done
<minghua> Yagisan: and actually scim-anthy is another debian maintainer's work, I just babysit it in ubuntu :-)
<minghua> Yagisan: and since you are talking about uim bugs, I assume you are aware of malone #5148 :-)
<sistpoty> gborzi: if you are on dapper, /etc/dput.cf should already contain an entry for revu, so you can do "dput revu changesfile.changes"
<minghua> Ubugtu must have /ignore'd me :-(
<minghua> Ubugtu: malone #5148
<gborzi> Question: should I put the binary (.deb) file too, or only .diff, .orig, dsc and changes ?
<sistpoty> gborzi: only the sourcepacakge
<Yagisan> launchpad #5148
<Yagisan> cool - Ubugtu is also on holiday
<gborzi> ok, i'll do it shortly. Thanks for the help and goodby.
<Yagisan> bbl - need to go now
<sistpoty> gborzi: you're welcome
<minghua> see you Yagisan
<sistpoty> cya Yagisan
<minghua> got to go too
<zakame> happy new year! :D
<sistpoty> hi zakame... same to you ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: did you just add Giuseppe's key? ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: yes, I did
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> okay. I was about to answer him
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> new clanlib should pop up on revu soon :)
<sistpoty> btw.: siretart: can you review a package for me? I put an updated version of min12xxw to revu, since it silently moved to main
<siretart> wuz?
<siretart> ok, will look at it
<sistpoty> cool, thx... I only noted it being in main by katies response *g*
<siretart> oh :)
<raphink> hello guys :)
<zakame> heya raphink , happy new year :)
<raphink> well still a few hours to wait here zakame
<sistpoty> hi raphink
<raphink> but happy new year to you
<raphink> hi sistpoty :)
<zakame> hi jaldhar
<siretart> sistpoty: uploaded
<sistpoty> siretart: cool, thx
<siretart> sistpoty: do you have that package in some kind of VCS? svn perhaps?
<siretart> sistpoty: I think your package is a perfect candidate for a common MOTU svn ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: no, but I wouldn't object to put it into svn
<sistpoty> :)
<siretart> sistpoty: Perhaps we should introduce on in /srv/svn/motu-packages on tiber, (see my email). but I won't get to it before 10th of january (I'm a week away)
<siretart> I think that is enough time for discussion on our mailing list
<sistpoty> siretart: great idea :)
<sistpoty> siretart: bad thing is, that I'm quite busy as well, and haven't got experience with svn-buildpackage yet, so I don't think I will be able to do it earlier
<siretart> sistpoty: ok. then lets wait for further discussion
<sistpoty> ok
<siretart> sistpoty: what concerns me most is how to handle authentication
<siretart> one possibility would be to handle that manually via htaccess. better would be some kind of password changing daemon which verifies gpg keys
<siretart> well, I'll think next week about that
<sistpoty> siretart: sounds promising... but maybe we can start with htaccess and move to some automated procedure later?
<sistpoty> siretart: maybe this will be a good package for collaboration with debian as well...
* StevenK sighs, accidently uploading a package to Ubuntu instead of Debian.
<Lathiat> its ok, ubuntu spits them out iirc
<Lathiat> like if distro=unstable
<StevenK> My key isn't in the keyring, so they would have been rejected. Silently.
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> that too
* sistpoty tried to upload to breezy yesterday, since I had this package lying around for some time
<StevenK> I'd like it to be, but I missed the last TC meeting.
<StevenK> Since I got a "Oh, it'll be sometime today."
<Lathiat> haha
<slomo_> StevenK: hi :) do you have some time for sponsoring a NEW package to debian?
<StevenK> slomo_: It's 2:45am. I'm waiting for jennifer to say ACCEPTED, and then I'm dropping off for 12-18 hours. :-)
<slomo_> StevenK: oh sorry then :) can i ask you again next week?
<StevenK> slomo_: If you like.
<slomo_> sure... i finally want this package uploaded ;) it's on my hdd for far too long now :P
* StevenK resorts to tail -f mainlog
<StevenK> And there it is.
* StevenK buggers off.
<Kyral> Morning
<Gloubiboulga> hello Kyral
<\sh> moins
<jsgotangco> \sh, happy new year! (at least on my side)
<\sh> jsgotangco: happy new year to you too :)
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<\sh> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> \sh: s.th. is strange with the syncs you requested... there are no buildlogs and they seem to not have made it into the archive
<\sh> sistpoty: yeah...have to ask elmo
<sistpoty> ah, k
<\sh> sistpoty: only audacity went through
<\sh> working on a new version of njam
<\sh> and has anyone played scourge?
<sistpoty> scourge?
<slomo_> sistpoty: that's normal currently ;) i uploaded new mono yesterday, it was ACCEPTED but it wasn't tried to build and the sources are not in the archives
<sistpoty> slomo_: do you happen to know the reason for this?
<slomo_> nope
<\sh> sistpoty: http://www.happypenguin.org/show?S.C.O.U.R.G.E.%3A%20Heroes%20of%20lesser%20renown
<sistpoty> \sh: anyone packaging this yet?
<\sh> sistpoty: i just tried the cvs version yesterday...and it looks great (compiles with gcc 4) i'll look into it
<sistpoty> cool :)
<\sh> sistpoty: have to check if there is a debian package but i don't think so :)
<siretart> \sh: I remember a package request on a MOTUGames wiki page
<\sh> yeah...see it :)
<sistpoty> \sh: no package in unstable, no itp/rfp
<\sh> sistpoty: ok..i'll look into it :) let me do njam first...because it has now a configure :)
<sistpoty> hehe, k
<\sh> sistpoty: but scourge looks really awesome...and works as well on my little toshiba here :)
<sistpoty> cool, hope I can apt-get install it soon ;)
<\sh> there is another game I would like to package
<\sh> daimion or something...a mmorpg game :) 2d and graphics like crossfire
<\sh> and cheers to all :)
<marcin`> hi guys - happy new 2006 to all :)
<marcin`> and... because we got a little time to 2006 - then question
<marcin`> is there some problem with kernel packages for dapper?
<marcin`> I would like to install linux-restricted-modules-k7
<marcin`> but it isn't installable because there is no 2.6.15-10-k7
<\sh> marcin`: it's missing...like all every single time a new kernel reaches dapper :) let's stablize first the kernel and then benc will take care about the restricted stuff
<Kyral> I need to learn how to use screen
<LaserJock> Kyral: what's wrong
<Kyral> I dunno how to use it lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: thanks for getting EasyChemi in by the way
<Kyral> LaserJock: np
<LaserJock> Kyral: what are you trying to do with screen?
<Kyral> LaserJock: I can't wait for it to hit Universe :D
<Kyral> LaserJock: the standard Irssi thing
<marcin`> \sh: ok - thanks for info
<Kyral> so if I SSH in and don't have to kill Irssi
<LaserJock> Kyral: but that is it? That is what I'm doing now ;-)
<Kyral> I'm actually working with another package now
<marcin`> \sh: unfortunately I cannot use kernel without restricted modules cause my keyboard doesn't work ;>
<Kyral> yamysqlfront
<\sh> marcin`: hum?
<\sh> marcin`: what's wrong with your keyboard?
<Kyral> Kassetra pointed it out and upstream REALLY is excited about
<Kyral> LaserJock: then maybe you could give me a few commands?
<marcin`> it's usb keyboard... and don't know why it didn't work with kernel without restricted-modules
<\sh> marcin`: that can
<LaserJock> Kyral: I just do screen and then I do irssi -c freenode
<Kyral> LaserJock: I know I start irssi with screen irssi
<\sh> 't be..because the usb modules are not in restricted
<Kyral> LaserJock: I have it in my config ;P
<Kyral> LaserJock: how do I "detach" the screen
<\sh> marcin`: did you enable the legacy usb support in your bios?
<LaserJock> Kyral: then when you want to detach you do Ctrl-A d
<Kyral> like when I'm done with an SSH session
<Kyral> and how do I reattach it elsewhere?
<LaserJock> you can either do screen -list to see all the screen sessions or if you only have one you can do screen -R
<\sh> screen -D -r
<marcin`> \sh: well yes because I'm using this keyboard now
<Kyral> LaserJock: hmm
<\sh> marcin`: strange...did you file a bug about your keyboard and the kernel stuff
<\sh> ?
<Kyral> so to start Irssi I would do screen irssi
<Kyral> then to detach (and leave it running) I would CTRL-A d
<marcin`> \sh: hehe not yet :)
<Kyral> then to reattach I would screen -D -r
<marcin`> \sh: I couldn't because my keyboard didn't work :)
<\sh> marcin`: do it :) and give a very detailed info about your keyboard :)
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, that should do it
<marcin`> \sh: anyway I think that currently there is a big mess with kernel packages in dapper
<Kyral> what if I have multiple thigns
<marcin`> \sh: I think I will just wait for a while... and propably they will be ok soon
<Kyral> Here goes nothing
<\sh> uploading njam 1.25 :)
<\sh> marcin`: well it
<\sh> 's development
<Kyral> Screen session up
<marcin`> \sh: exactly - and christmas, new year etc...
<Kyral> now...
<Kyral> CTRL-A d?
<marcin`> \sh: anyway for example I cannot install linux-image-k7 package (broken dependency)
<marcin`> \sh: anyway I'll just wait few days
<Kyral> whoa...
<Kyral> thats COOL
<\sh> marcin`: sure :)
<Kyral> lemme try something
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah it is
<Kyral> I'm on a FreeNX session right now
<Kyral> lemme detach, logout of the FreeNX, log back in, and try to reattach
<Kyral> whoa....
<Kyral> this is AWEOMSE
<LaserJock> lol
<Kyral> now what if I have multiple screens
<Kyral> ie, I'm running Irssi and BitTorndo
<Kyral> How would I detach both but only reattach Irssi?
* Kyral begins to want to write a Irssi WikiPage
<LaserJock> Kyral: sounds good to me ;-)
<Kyral> With stuffs about Screen :P
<Kyral> Because screen just made (for me) Irssi the ownage client
<LaserJock> Kyral: I found a couple of irssi+screen tutorials on the web
<Kyral> LaserJock: yah
<Kyral> LaserJock: I plan to make this cool
<LaserJock> how do you guys update .dpatch files?
<LaserJock> I have tried to just cut-n-paste the new diff but the patches don't seem to apply
* Kyral giggles as he plays with Screen
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch happy new year mate
* sistpoty is off to party
<sistpoty> cya and a happy new year ;)
<zakame> w00t sistpoty :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch | tseng : I uploaded plotdrop with the suggested changes of ajmitch. Please review and upload. Thanks.
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<zakame> heya LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi bmonty and zakame
<LaserJock> bmonty: How's Gabe doing?
<bmonty> he is the man :)
<\sh> party?
<bmonty> where?
<\sh> when?
* bmonty shrugs
<\sh> I wonder which party?
<LaserJock> \sh, bmonty : could you guys review plotdrop real quick for me? It already got 2 votes but ajmitch wanted me to add DESTDIR to the Makefile so I uploaded again
<zakame> what party?!? :)
<bmonty> LaserJock: looking at it now
<LaserJock> here of course
<LaserJock> we always party in -motu ;-)
<zakame> LaserJock: how's the packagingguide going? I was revising the PbuilderHowto and DebootstrapChroot pages as per jsgotangco's review :)
<LaserJock> zakame: well, it's going but I have been on vacation so I haven't had a chance to do much more
<LaserJock> zakame: I would like to fill out UbuntuPackagingGuide/Outline
<LaserJock> but thanks for working on the pbuilder and chroot stuff
<LaserJock> that will be a pretty important part of the guide
<zakame> LaserJock: no prob :) I'd like to help out too on that, per IntroDeveloperDocs
<LaserJock> when I get home in about a week I will put a lot more time into it
<zakame> w00t :D
<zakame> gtg now, 'tis 2:30 am here :)  happy new year all :D
<\sh> ok...guys..I
<\sh> 'm watching now blade runner :) and I wish you all a happy new year 2006 :) cu tomorrow :)
<siretart> cu \sh_away
<siretart> happy new year to you all!
* Kyral goes browsing the Bounty List
<sivang> siretart: happy new year !
<sivang> you too Kyral
<Kyral> You could make a living doing this..lol
<Kyral> an Internet Era Bounty Hunter
<Gloubiboulga> see you next year :)
<sivang> Kyral: you mean by saying happy new year to people ? :)
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> the link that someone posted to the Devel list
<sivang> Kyral: hunting bounties is not easy, mind you :)
<sivang> Kyral: especially those interente era elusive ones :)
<Kyral> the thing with all the list of Open Source Bounties
<Kyral> Oh Sivang, you wrote up the spec for EasyBackup right?
<Kyral> or whatever it is..
<sivang> Kyral: yeah, I did, /me dukcks
<Kyral> I recall speaking to you about adapting one of my pet projects to that
<Kyral> I think I have a rather...interesting solution
<ajmitch> morning
<Kyral> morning mitch
<Kyral> sivang: if you wish I could explain in PM
<Kyral> of course I haven't glanced over the spec in a while
<sivang> Kyral: send me an email , I gotta go in a sec or gf will kill me :)
<sivang> Kyral: interested to hear your idea
<Kyral> sivang: when my email stops acting up
<sivang> Kyral: then just leave me PMs I will read then when I get back
<bmonty> ajmitch: I was looking at Laserjock's plotdrop package...is it ok to have changelog entries for versions of the package that never existed in the archive?
<ajmitch> bmonty: of course
<ajmitch> bmonty: as long as the version numbers increment, it's fine
<bmonty> ok, thanks
<sivang> c'ya all! happy new year once again /me is out for some celebration
<ajmitch> bye sivang
<Mithrandir> sivang: have fun
<sivang> Mithrandir: thanks, cheers ajmitch
<Kyral> Can a Debian Package contain other Debian Packages?
<FireRabbit> Kyral, i don't see how that would work, what are you trying to acomplish?
<Kyral> Mass deployment
<Kyral> the package contains all the packages you need to deploy. That way you aren't dependent on the Internet
<FireRabbit> well, what is the difference between distributing one deb file vs. distributing one tarball of lots of deb files? untaring wont take much time
* Kyral shrugs
<FireRabbit> if you are deploying across a LAN you can set up an APT server which makes it very easy
<Kyral> because I need to apply customizations
<Kyral> I'm just throwing ideas around in my head
<FireRabbit> well, what sort of environment will you be deploying in?
<Kyral> Linux Lab
<FireRabbit> i would highly recomend setting up an internal apt server
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> and use a Metapack...
<FireRabbit> create a metapa..yeah
<Kyral> or even a shell script
<Kyral> but how would I automate the install....
<FireRabbit> metapackages are good because if you add a new dependency everyone will automatically get it
<Kyral> I need to be able to fire off one command and have it completely install the system....
<FireRabbit> you could put an SSH key on every computer in the lab and write a little shell script that executes a command on every computer from yours
<FireRabbit> install the whole operating system, or just your additional packages?
<Kyral> the OS
<FireRabbit> ah, you can use PXE for this
<Kyral> PXE?
<FireRabbit> remote booting
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> how would that help in setting up the OS
<Kyral> they won't be netbookting
<Kyral> netbooting even
<FireRabbit> pxe is part of the bios
<FireRabbit> you dont have to have anything on the drive
<Kyral> Yah i know...
<Kyral> but how would it help me install the OS with one command?
<FireRabbit> it would be zero commands :)
* Kyral blinks
<FireRabbit> client would boot installer over the network and install
<Kyral> I don't want to setup the computers to Netboot
<FireRabbit> why not? ;)
<Kyral> Because I'm not allowed
<Kyral> I'm a Sopomore, I'm doing this by the terms dictated by the lab head
<FireRabbit> alright.. well you could replace the pxe with a boot cd/floppy that did the same thing
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> could I store the filesystem on the server...
<FireRabbit> yes, instead of booting an installer you could boot the entire system over the network
<Kyral> and use a LiveCD to automatically partition, download, and copy the filesystem...
<FireRabbit> oh, well, you could also just image the drive..
<Kyral> yah...the base Ubuntu install...
<Kyral> hmmm
<FireRabbit> using "dd" or something similar
<Kyral> tar has provisions for preserving ownership and permisions right,.,,
<FireRabbit> yes
<FireRabbit> but you cant write grub to the mbr with tar ;)
<Kyral> install grub
<Kyral> call it from the Live environment
<FireRabbit> right, but i meant that if you used imaging software it could do it all at once
<Kyral> yah, well, *shrugs*
<FireRabbit> are you going to be doing this to every computer in the lab?
<Kyral> Bingo
<Kyral> I thought the OEM Installer was in the works...
<FireRabbit> so why are they opposed to PXE?
<Kyral> Dunno
<Kyral> I never brought it up
<FireRabbit> ...
<FireRabbit> well, you should ask :)
<Kyral> I don't think we have a machine equipped for it
<Kyral> I'm on semester break ;P
<FireRabbit> you can use any linux machine
<Kyral> What about the Debian Preseed?
<FireRabbit> you just need to modify one setting in the DHCP server
<Kyral> or Kickstart...
<FireRabbit> well, you would probably use something like that in conjunction with PXE or whatever
<Kyral> this looks interesting
<Kyral> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KickstartCompatibility?highlight=%28Kickstart%29
<Kyral> hmm....LVM could be a problem...
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I'll tink about it later
<FireRabbit> ok, have fun
<Kyral> gah...the kcikstart package has a killer bug...filed it
<FireRabbit> bug#?
<greenpenguin13> #1
<Kyral> Uhh I literally just filed it lol
<Kyral> and its the only bug on system-config-kickstart
<Kyral> how does that bugbot work...
<FireRabbit> ubuntu bug 1
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 1: "openssl: Expired certificates and recertification" Product: Ubuntu, Component: openssl, Severity: normal, Assigned to: fabbione@ubuntu.com, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1
<FireRabbit> or something
<FireRabbit> ah yeah thats it :)
<Kyral> can it searcj?
<Kyral> like if I give it a source package?
<FireRabbit> doubt it
<Kyral> ubuntu bug system-config-kickstart
<Kyral> guess not
<Kyral> ubuntu bug 6333
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 6333: "Mute Button Shortcut sometimes doesn't restore sound when "unmuted"" Product: Ubuntu, Component: gnome-control-center, Severity: normal, Assigned to: seb128@ubuntu.com, Status: UPSTREAM http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6333
<Kyral> whoops
<Kyral> malone bug 6333
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6333: "config-kickstart (Ubuntu) - Fails to start" Fix req. for: system-config-kickstart (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6333
<Kyral> there we go
<Kyral> oh it works in Breezy btw
<Kyral> All I know from the couput that something ain't defined right
<Amaranth> Kyral: it needs to import gettext
<Amaranth> Kyral: At the top of /usr/share/system-config-kickstart/system-config-kickstart.py put "import gettext" on it's own line
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> I can make the patch
<Kyral> but...
<Kyral> uploading ain't gonna be easy...
<Kyral> nm
<Kyral> still ain't working
<Kyral> gettext was being imported on line 34 anyway
<Kyral> its having a problem with that _ in line 105 of xconfig.py
<Kyral> why is that even there...
<Kyral> that didn't fix it and it looks like i have somplace to be
<Kyral> well, I know one thing, getting rid of that _ killed one error
#ubuntu-motu 2006-01-06
<Kyral> Yo LJ
<Kyral> mmm LJ++ for teaching me how to use screen
<LaserJock> Kyral: np
<Kyral> how do I start another app?
<Kyral> just open a terminal and screen it as well?
<LaserJock> hmm, I haven't done to much of that. I usually only need it for one thing
<scotth_> Kyral, start another app? you mean get another bash prompt? ctrl-a ctrl-c
<Kyral> scotth_: then just start whatever in there?
<Kyral> or do I have to screen <app>
<LaserJock> bmonty: ping?
<scotth_> just start whatever in there
<scotth_> you might also want to look at C-a C-?
<scotth_> or info screen
<Kyral> hmm
* Kyral shrugs
<spacey> ctrl a n switches between the screens
<spacey> when you have created multiple with ctrl a c
<irvin> hello!
<irvin> is there a backport of bootchart for breezy? packages.ubuntu.com only returns one from dapper
<scotth_> screen is a pretty amazing program... I love it personally and I don't think I could live without it, but you have to read a little to know how to get around and such
<Yagisan> irvin: no backport - it needs dappers kernels IIRC
<Yagisan> OMG!! more than 46 degrees celsius here
<irvin> Yagisan, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting shows entry for breezy
<Yagisan> irvin: I heard it needed feature only in the dapper kernel initramfs - I asked myself a while ago. I suppose you could try to backport it yourself
<Kyral> hmmm
<Kyral> Note to self, learn PyGTK
<crimsun> (or pyglade if you want)
<Kyral> PyQT ;P
<crimsun> PyKDE :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I like Py ;P
<Kyral> PyMotif :P
<crimsun> lesstif? ;)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> Python friggin rocks :D
<Kyral> Sometimes it seems like you can do anything with it
<crimsun> you can, really.
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I know
<Kyral> Now if we could get a good compiler....
<Kyral> we could write OS's in Python ;P
* Kyral decides to master Python and PyGTK before the end of next semester
<crimsun> cool, now I know who to bug
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> malone bug 6333
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6333: "config-kickstart (Ubuntu) - Fails to start" Fix req. for: system-config-kickstart (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6333
<Kyral> help me figure out WTF is going on there then :P
<crimsun> sec, I'm eating dinner ;)
<Kyral> bah
<scotth_> have you looked at the line and why it couldn't read the video card database?
<Kyral> it won't even START
<Kyral> its giving a major error, like it hits that line and BAM
<scotth_> I mean the traceback is saying that it couldn't read the video card database
<Kyral> oh
<scotth_> what dist are you using?(breezy or dapper)
<Kyral> Dapper
<Kyral> it's fine on Breezy
<Kyral> I asked
<scotth_> yeah, I don't have a dapper system anywhere near, but let me go see if I can find the source
<Kyral> There is why
<Kyral> damn file doesn't exist
<scotth_> yes, but why
<Kyral> I dunno...
<Kyral> hwdata is supposed to supply it
<Kyral> which it isn't
<scotth_> whats the file name?
<Kyral> for?
<Kyral> the file its wanting to open?
<crimsun> the db, yes
<Kyral> its /usr/share/hwdata/Cards
<scotth_> its in the breezy version, but not much in the change log as to where it went, all it says is new upstream version
<Kyral> hmm
<scotth_> you mind if I reassign said bug to hwdata?
<Kyral> go ahead
<Kyral> I was about to
<scotth_> nm, I don't have an edit link, go ahead
<Kyral> eh?
<crimsun> are you logged in?
<Kyral> I am
<scotth_> yeah I am, new to malone, found it though
<scotth_> Kyral, you want a copy of the db off a breezy system so you can do your work?
<Kyral> scotth_: if that solves the problem then all we have to do is patch the Dapper hwdata
<scotth_> * Thu Sep  8 2005 Bill Nottingham <notting@redhat.com> - 0.169-1
<scotth_> - remove Cards, pcitable. Add videodrivers
<Kyral> ...
<scotth_> someone did it on purpose, Id rather know why and where it actually went if anywhere
<Kyral> they aren't there
<Kyral> videodrivers isn't there
<scotth_> it should be, its in the source
<Kyral> nope
<crimsun> is this package self-contained? If you're using RH source, did you check if there are any necessary auxiliary packages?
<scotth_> yup, never gets installed.
<bmonty> happy new year everyone!
<scotth_> I'm trying to track down who is upstream and if there is any open dev process and it seems like its just someone at redhat throwing out releases
<bmonty> hmmm...gnuift seems to be current, but is on the merge list
<crimsun> it is?
<crimsun> it doesn't appear on NEW
<crimsun> have you already accepted it?
<bmonty> yeah
<crimsun> bmonty: note the NMU
<crimsun> gnuift | 0.1.14-6ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
<crimsun> gnuift_0.1.14-6.1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<bmonty> yeah I see the 6.1, but I don't see it in the changelog
<crimsun> +++ gnuift_0.1.14-6.1/debian/changelog	2005-12-31 12:49:57.009251351 +0000
<crimsun> @@ -1,3 +1,10 @@
<crimsun> +gnuift (0.1.14-6.1) unstable; urgency=low
<crimsun> +
<crimsun> +  * Non-maintainer upload.
<crimsun> +  * Renamed for C++ allocator change (Closes: #339177).
<crimsun> +
<crimsun> + -- Luk Claes <luk@debian.org>  Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:14:45 +0100
<crimsun> from http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/gnuift/gnuift_debian.patch
<bmonty> ahhh got it
<crimsun> it's a sync anyhow
<bmonty> yeah that is what I thought and then I got side-tracked looking at the changelogs
<scotth_> Kyral, maybe we needed the latest system-config-kickstart? I don't know, the change logs aren't very descriptive and the official redhat version for fedora core claims that it works with anything after 0.140 which makes no sense cause we have greater than 0.140 and its not working...
<scotth_> redhat makes my brain hurt :-(
<scotth_> Kyral, I updated your bug with what I know, thats a main package so an Ubuntu developer will have to take care of it for you
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> Happy New Year
<Amaranth> can i come back to the land where things just work?
<Amaranth> OS X is pissing me off
* Amaranth kicks broadcom
<bmonty> crimsun: grrr...I was just doing soap-lite :)
<crimsun> sorry
<bmonty> mine was in two minutes before yours :)
<crimsun> marked 6340 as a dup
<crimsun> dupe^
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> people grabbing merges at the same time?
<bmonty> yup
<crimsun> there's a race between page reloads and e-mails
<bmonty> lpbugs needs to check and see if there is a bug already open against a package
<bmonty> and warn the user
<bmonty> and that pretty much is all the unassigned merges :)
<bmonty> I'm unsure how to do the libc++ stuff with qgis...sould it be just a -build1 version?
<crimsun> no, just sync it
<crimsun> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-December/003677.html was -1build1, so -1.1 can be synced
<bmonty> I'll just do a quick pbuilder run on it then
<bmonty> what is with the packages that are broken links?
<crimsun> no common base
<bmonty> meaning the package isn't in debian?
<crimsun> I just browse to a.u.c. and "by-hand"
<crimsun> MoM just couldn't find a base for one of Ubuntu's or Debian's
<ajmitch> which often happened due to snapshot.debian.net losing a lot of packages, iirc
<zakame> heya all :D happy new year
<bmonty> hi zakame, 15 mins more here
<zakame> bmonty: its been so here in .ph for the past 13 hours ;)
<crimsun> rock, the MOTU ring in the new year on dapper-changes
<zakame> w00t
<bmonty> :)
<bmonty> so in the case of kguitar, Loic made a package for ubuntu and someone else made a package for debian, both are the same version...which do we prefer?
<crimsun> I would ask pef_aw first, but from a maint perspective Debian's is preferred
<crimsun> pef_aw may have a compelling reason to maintain his packaging
<bmonty> pef's package has more of the things we like to have with ubuntu
<bmonty> desktop file, icon, etc
<crimsun> we could push those upstream
<zakame> yes, so is the same for my case with lighttpd :( shlomme had already beaten me to it in sid :(
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, sorry about inbox
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, yours, I mean
<zakame> hm LP's now a bit verbose :)
<bmonty> it just needs to not attach control messages as comments and only send a single email
<zakame> bmonty: hehe, we did seem to file the dcraw merge at the same time :) rocking work ;)
<bmonty> zakame: it has happened twice to me today
<zakame> hehe
<bmonty> unassigned merges are almost done though :)
<zakame> yeah, rocking work at the start of 2006 :)
<bmonty> good night everyone...happy new year!
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: hm?
<minghua> hello MOTUs and MOTU hopefuls, and happy new year :-)
<crimsun> hi minghua
<irvin> happy new year!
<Mez> happy new year from the uk for 8 hours ago
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, for some reason you are still subscribed to the entire wiki
<Yagisan> re
<Yagisan> Happy New Year to all those still here
<crimsun> ditto
<Yagisan> G'day crimsum - how are you ? I'm frying like an egg here - 45 degress celcius @ 7:50pm =-O
<Amaranth> it's only 30F here
<Yagisan> Amaranth: 30F that's about -1C right ?
<Amaranth> something like that, yeah
<Amaranth> -1.11 degrees celcius
<Yagisan> Amaranth: it would be arount 113-114F here. Lots of bushfires today
<Amaranth> yikes
<Amaranth> we go from 0-15F winter lows to 90-105F summer highs
<Yagisan> Amaranth: was actually higher today too :( - I spend a while giving the baby sponge baths so he wouldn't die from heatstroke
<Amaranth> no air conditioning?
<crimsun> Yagisan: not bad, just sorting through some packages, yourself?
<Yagisan> Amaranth: nope. Landlord is a tightarse cunt. Can't even bring a potable unit in, as it blows the fuses - as the landlord cut cost on the fuse box too - by installing a underpowered box
<Amaranth> *boggle*
<Yagisan> crimsun: very little pc work today - just roasting my nuts off in the heat
<crimsun> eek.
<Amaranth> time to move, you can't live like that with kids
<Yagisan> Amaranth: I try to cook toast and pop goes the fuse
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> Amaranth: Been looking for the last 6 months
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch\
<Amaranth> in the US that place would probably get red tagged
<ajmitch> 45C? ouch..
<Amaranth> (means it's not safe to live in)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: It peaked at 48 here
<ajmitch> that's nasty
<ajmitch> we'd be lucky to get half that
<ajmitch> probably got up to about 20C here today
<Yagisan> Amaranth: It just meets the letter of the law - myself and the estate agent went and checked it out
<Yagisan> Amaranth: estate agent is pissed - they look like they will lose their best tenant
<Yagisan> ajmitch: do they report aussie bushfires in NZ ? If so, you can expect to see quite a few soon
<ajmitch> yes, they do
<ajmitch> one of the channels here has channel 9 news
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I can see the smoke from the gosford/woy woy area bushfires from my flat
<ajmitch> heh
<Yagisan> ajmitch: and that is a few hours north of Sydney
<ajmitch> impressive
<sivang> morning all
<crimsun> moins
<Yagisan> ajmitch: rookwood cemetery is just down the road - one of the largest cemeteries in the southern hemisphere - all wee need is one cigarette butt, and I'll be on the news
<Yagisan> G'day sivang
<sivang> hey crimsun
<sivang> how was new years partying folks?
<Amaranth> sivang: 3 bottles of captain morgan and one bottle of jack daniels were emptied at my house
<Amaranth> i was the only sober one ;)
<Yagisan> sivang: I got to party with two kids under two, followed by watching shall we dance (original japanese version)  in the early hours of the morning.
<Amaranth> but it was fun watching everyone make fools of themselves
<Yagisan> wanted to get into the umeshu (japanese plum wine), but only alcoholics drink alone, and my wife can't drink as she's still breast feeding
<Yagisan> Amaranth: It is fun watching people get shitfaced isn't it - It's great fun to mess with them too <insert evil similey here>
<Amaranth> >:)
<Yagisan> Amaranth: nice - I should really learn how to use gaim better
<Amaranth> it's > : )
<Yagisan> Amaranth: thanks :) now I can inflict more of my twisted sense of humor on people here >:)
<Yagisan> bbl - enjoy the day everyone
<minghua> talking about fires, there were quite a few around Houston recently, although it's winter
<Goshawk> hi, when i upload a package with dupload is there a way to say to dupload to do not send the announce by mail message?
<siretart> Happy new Year, folks!
<Treenaks> happy new year to you too, siretart :)
<ajmitch> happy new year :)
<ajmitch> although it's the 2nd here already...
<ajmitch> siretart: you don't mind if I do another qemu merge? :)
<ajmitch> 0.8.0 is up & working on ppc
<ajmitch> looks like bzrtools is new in debian, and luckily it's based on the ubuntu package
* sivang greets everyone back
<luk> Happy New Year!
<luk> So, you did like my NMU of gnuift? :-)
<ajmitch> I saw someone talking about it earlier
<ajmitch> as I understand the ubuntu changes can be dropped now, which is always helpful :)
<luk> feel free to ask for similar NMUs, I can see if I can help...
* ajmitch can probably do similar NMUs where needed :)
<ajmitch> I'd say that one was warranted, being a simple change with a bug that was nearly 7 weeks old
<luk> well, even if it's only like 2 weeks old
<ajmitch> I know
<luk> the offer stands...
* ajmitch still has a few RC bugs open on his packages, sadly
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'd really like a new qemu in dapper. Pity the ppc user mode emulation doesn't support nptl binaries
<ajmitch> Yagisan: pity that 0.8.0 is uploaded but FTBFS on ppc
<ajmitch> http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=&pkg=qemu
<ajmitch> looks like it's failing all over the place on debian as well
<Yagisan> ajmitch: sorry for the delayed response - was called away to get a little girl into the bath
<ajmitch> that's ok :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: :( qemu doesn't like to be built does it
<ajmitch> it's complex
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yep - lots of potential to be quite useful. Pity it doesn't quite reach it
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I think they are too optimistic here http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/status.html . In my experience it doesn't work like that
<slomo> hmm, i used it on my ppc to run mathematica... worked fairly good :)
<Yagisan> slomo: I never could get it to install ubuntu ppc. Usermode binaries segfaulted on apps such as bash, so I couldn't run cross-compiled apps.
<slomo> i never ran a complete system in qemu ;)
<Yagisan> slomo: It's almost like it was saying, Yagisan, buy a bloody ppc system
<Kyral> Morning MOTU
<ajmitch> hi
<bmonty> hi Kyral
<ajmitch> yay, ACCEPTED
* Kyral blinks?
<ajmitch> I'll get my merge list cleared yet
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> even if I am working on merges at 5AM
<ajmitch> I must really have no life or something
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> no kiddin
<Kyral> *ducks*
* Yagisan wonders why ajmitch is still here at this ungodly hour
<Treenaks> 17:05 ?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I ask myself that same thing
<Kyral> 11:06?
<Mez> evening all
<Kyral> yo Mez
<bmonty> hey Mez
<ajmitch> I think it's because I tried sleeping but couldn't
<ajmitch> hi Mez
<Yagisan> 15:06
<Kyral> I just woke up...
<Mez> Kyral: me too
<Mez> amd i'm back off to bed in a mo :D
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I'm off to the shower.......NOW!
<Kyral> ;P
* Yagisan grumbles at filling in multiple countries birth registration forms
<Yagisan> bbl - kernel update
<Kyral> Most impressed with Screen
<ajmitch> you're just exploring its wonders?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I must write a HowTo for it!
<Kyral> So others will marvel!
<tseng> im sure there are plenty.
<Kyral> Yes, but like on the Forums
<Kyral> or in the Wiki
<StevenK> ajmitch: Jeez, why are you up?
<ajmitch> StevenK: dunno
<ajmitch> probably because I slept a bit in the afternoon
<StevenK> I slept until midday, and now I can't get to sleep.
<ajmitch> which is basically what I did
<psusi> lol... good old screen ;)
<Kyral> hmm
<psusi> I don't think I've used that in several years
<Kyral> how can I startup another app?
<Kyral> in screen?
<psusi> what I'd like is a gui version of screen
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> hmm
<tseng> ctrl + a c
<Kyral> PROJECT INDEED!
<tseng> ctrl + a n to tab between windows
<Kyral> I apologize...I'm a little off...from new years
<StevenK> psusi: ratpoison
<psusi> I've got a server at work set up to work like a terminal server with vnc
<psusi> it would be nice to be able to detach and reattach to a session
<Kyral> tseng: I mean an entire new screen, so I can detach it
<psusi> hrm.... google time
<StevenK> Kyral: C-A d
<Kyral> then just fire up another screen?
<StevenK> Yup
<tseng> you can have more than one terminal in one screen
<psusi> Kyral, when you run screen there is a switch to tell it to make a new session instead of attaching to the detached one
<tseng> it is painful to have two
<tseng> you need to know their ids
<Kyral> oh
<psusi> but yea... you really don't want two
<psusi> just make more windows in the one
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I just wanna fire up bittornado and detach it immeadiatly
<tseng> screen bittornado
<tseng> C-A D
<tseng> done.
<Kyral> but first detach Irssi?
<tseng> we just told you
<tseng> C-A C make a new window
<Kyral> sorry....
<tseng> run whatever you want in it
<tseng> C-A N back to irssi
<psusi> StevenK, that's just a window manager
<psusi> doesn't allow you to detach from the session
<Kyral> well...I think we should write one
<Kyral> at least for individual GUI apps
<StevenK> C-A 0 back to irssi, too
<tseng> or C-A A
<tseng> if you are into that kind of thing
<StevenK> C-A A just ends up confusing me. :-P
<tseng> its like "last channel" on your tv remote
<tseng> handy
<StevenK> Yes, but then my brain breaks.
<ajmitch> I find it very useful
<ajmitch> Kyral: NX
<Kyral> ajmitch: I'm using it :P
<Kyral> ajmitch: but NX doesn't allow you to Detach like that
<ajmitch> it does
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> FreeNX?
<ajmitch> at least detaching from a desktop
* StevenK stops aliasing svn-pdebuild and writes a wrapper instead.
<tseng> there is such a thing?
<tseng> i could have used that on alioth awhile back
<StevenK> tseng: Are you refering to svn-pdebuild?
<tseng> yes.
<StevenK> svn-buildpackage --svn-builder pdebuild
<StevenK> That's what the alias was.
<tseng> ah right
* psusi wishes apps would just support SSL instead of telling you to loopback tunnel them over ssh
<siretart> ajmitch: re: qemu, please go on, I'm away for a week beginning tomorrow.
<StevenK> Oh, I'm going to kill Rocco Caputo
<StevenK> steven@broken:~/debian/trunk/libpoe-perl% dpkg --compare-versions "2:0.33-1" gt "2:0.3202-1"
<StevenK> zsh: exit 1
<siretart> ajmitch: the only change afair are 2 packages moved from depends to recommends in order to get qemu installable in ubuntu. jbailey talked to Guillome, he intends to change that in debian on the next upload
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, I already uploaded anyway, he'll need to do another upload to fix the FTBFS on multiple platforms
<ajmitch> but I tested that it works fine on i386
<siretart> great! :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: broken upstream versioning?
<ajmitch> siretart: I've done about 5 uploads & have 6 to sync now :)
<ajmitch> so I'm about 10% of the way to catching up with others
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yup.
<minghua> StevenK: 2:0.3300, perhaps?
<StevenK> Ugh.
<siretart> ajmitch: as I have a DD here: I've got a bugreport on one of my package that it FTBFS on 64bit arches. I (and upstream too) know that aspectc++ doesn't work at all on 64bit platforms anyway
<ajmitch> ok..
<minghua> or maybe 3:0.33, since you are already using epoch...
<ajmitch> which DD are you wanting to ask? :)
<StevenK> minghua: What I'm thinking.
<siretart> ajmitch: should I live with the FTBFS on 64bit arches or should I rather restrict the 'arches' in debian/control
<siretart> ?
<StevenK> If he does it again, like 0.3302, I'll do 0.33.02
<ajmitch> I'd restrict archs & get the bugs fixed
<ajmitch> no point having the buildds waste resources :)
<ajmitch> StevenK may have a different view :)
<StevenK> If you restrict arches, it makes it hard to get it out of Not-For-Us.
<siretart> well, in principle it is a bug in the package, and upstream is working on 64bit support. so in principle I think it should be arch: any.
<siretart> even if I would/could fix the FTBFS, I'm pretty sure it would just segfault on calling it
<ajmitch> StevenK: that's what I was wondering
<siretart> that was the behavior in an earlier version on amd64
* StevenK waits for ajmitch to drop hints.
(ajmitch/#ubuntu-motu) StevenK: volunteer if you want ;)
(StevenK/#ubuntu-motu) That's not much of a hint. :-)
<ajmitch> hey, it's nearly 7AM here :)
<StevenK> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
<StevenK> tests/30_loops/10_select/wheel_run..................pty_allocate(nonfatal): getpt(): No such file or directory at /usr/lib/perl5/IO/Pty.pm line 24.
<Kyral> Should somoene do a MOTUSchool on PBuilder?
<StevenK> pty_allocate(nonfatal): open(/dev/ptmx): No such file or directory at /usr/lib/perl5/IO/Pty.pm line 24.
<tseng> Kyral: no.
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch>   * Don't build python2.?-pyx packages, just build for the current python.
<ajmitch> if only this worked right
<ajmitch> it still has python2.3 hardcoded in 1 makefile
<psusi> is there somewhere I can read about how dpkg-reconfigure works?
<jpatrick> psusi: it's man page?
<psusi> I was hoping more for a howto oriented towards newbie motu types ;)
<jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1350 ?
<bmonty> Kyral: ping
<Kyral> bmonty: pong
<bmonty> Kyral: did you finish the merge on alsaplayer?
<Kyral> I think someone else took it over
<bmonty> yeah, I'm going to upload it
<Kyral> something like it involved a transition
<Kyral> but that was like a couple months ago...almost forgot
<Kyral> lemme look at it again
<bmonty> Kyral: nevermind, the merge is done but the bug was never closed
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> yah I knew someone took it off my hands
* Kyral should really learn how to do this...
<bmonty> I took care of it
<Kyral> no, I meant merging ;P
<bmonty> oh, well if you can make packages (and I see one of yours just got uploaded, so I'm assuming you can) you can merge :)
<Kyral> Yah EasyChem got in, just waiting for it to go through the NEW process :D
<Kyral> never actually learned the merge process ;P
<bmonty> MoM usually handles most of it, you just have to make sure it did the right thing
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> hmm....need to kill off two screen consoles...
<bmonty> hey slomo
<Kyral> Actually....I have another package to work on lol
<Kyral> This time with a responsive upstream! HOORAY!
* Kyral gets excited
<Kyral> EasyChem got the source accepted :D
<siretart> grats Kyral
<Kyral> ty
* Kyral feels fuzzy
<slomo_> hi bmonty :)
<Kyral> now I gotta start working on yamysqlfront
<Kyral> oh wait...upstream said he was about to release a new version soon with major bugfixes
<Kyral> I should hold off...
<slomo_> siretart: oh, ac++ was accepted :) congrats
<siretart> slomo_: thanks. but I've already got 2 bugs on it, working on a fix right now
<Kyral> hey Corey
<\sh> happy new year :)
<bmonty> hi \sh
<siretart> happy new year \sh!
<\sh> working on scourge :)
<\sh> siretart: http://scourge.sourceforge.net/
<\sh> siretart: it's on the MOTUGames want to have list :)
<siretart> cool :)
<\sh> siretart: and I found my ubergame :) elite for linux...which is called "oolite" :)
<\sh> siretart: opensource objective-c .. i have to find out if it's using gnustep and if it's buildable somehow :)
<\sh> siretart: http://oolite.aegidian.org/
<siretart> \sh: I already had a look at it and tried to build it
<\sh> siretart: well..it's CCL and looks like not for ubuntu
<siretart> \sh: In fact, I managed to build it and played a bit with it. I don't think it is ready for packageing, but nevertheless, it has the potential to become a really good descendent of the original elite :)
<siretart> CCL?
<\sh> siretart: well i just installed the binary version...and it plays like the original one...a little bit more simulation and new graphics, but the rest is nice..so I don't habe to install VICE anymore :)
<bmonty> I like Battlefront II on XBox :)
* \sh has no tv, no xbox, no ps2 or anything :)
<\sh> I think i have to go over happypenguins und start packaging all the nice games :) vultureeyes and vultureclaw are next :)
<Kyral> lol
<markuman> o ha, i think ill need for scourge fglrx drivers or an nvidia card :-/
<Kyral> Leave some for me!
<siretart> \sh: I think there are some differences to the original gameplay. I'd rather play it in my uae. but if upstream gets some other nuisances out, and adds the feature to increase the speed of the time.. that would really make the game rock hard
<Burgundavia> Kyral, http://galaxymage.org/
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> Okay
<Burgundavia> Kyral, python and already runs on dapper and breezy
<Kyral> yah just have to throw it in a Deb
<Kyral> First time doing a Python program
<Kyral> why does the name Colin McMillen sound familier?
<\sh> siretart: sure :)
<Kyral> hmm should I do this cdbs?
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<\sh> happy new year :)
<ajmitch> happy new year ;)
* ajmitch finally managed about 3 hours sleep this morning ;)
<ajmitch> so I can get back to fixing
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> anyone know a good template for Python packages?
<\sh> hmm...strange
<\sh> in a chroot it builds but not in pbuilder
<\sh> grmpf
<ajmitch> yeah
* ajmitch is having issues with pyx today
<ajmitch> manual doesn't want to generate with python 2.4's mkhowto
<Kyral> Corey I'll work on the package. I'm at a small disadvantage with limited Net on my production box
<Burgundavia> Kyral, hey I was just throwing you a bone becuase \sh was stealing all the games
<Kyral> okay ;P
<\sh> Burgundavia: hehe .. no ways :)
<Kyral> no one steal my bone lol :D
<Kyral> GalaxyMage is mine :D
<ajmitch> noone will 'steal' it if you get it done nice & fast
<Kyral> I'm saying my abilitiy is limited by the Net acting up on my Desktop (my produciton box)
<Kyral> thats why I'm paranoid ;P
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> sigh, these people who upload merges but don't close their bugs..
* \sh will close his last bugs tomorrow...not today anymore...well it
<\sh> 's time to go to bed
<\sh> anyways
<\sh> ok...good night folks :)
<ajmitch> night
<ajmitch> pygdchart2 makes me cry
<ajmitch> what package maintainer would ship their own copy of cdbs makefiles?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, because they can?
<lucas> are there currently some buildd problems ?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it's crack
<lucas> ah
<lucas> the answer is yes.
<allee> ajmitch: when cdbs changes/fixes are not merged yet?
<ajmitch> allee: it's still crack :)
<allee> ajmitch: being on crach helps sometimes ;)
<jinty> hoi ajmitch!
<ajmitch> hey jinty
<jinty> ajmitch: had a look at the schooltool-live package yet?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-01-07
<ajmitch> ah.. nope
<ajmitch> I'll remember sometime soon ;)
<slomo_> ajmitch: hi... what about banshee and ipod-sharp? ;)
* jinty is just being a nag;)
<ajmitch> jinty: join the ranks
* slomo_ too
* tseng nags ajmitch for good measure
* ajmitch wonders what tseng has to nag about today
<tseng> beats me
<tseng> everyone else was doing it
<ajmitch> slomo_: ipod-sharp has dropped a dbus dependency?
<ajmitch> Version: [-0.5.12-1-]  {+0.5.12-2+}
<ajmitch> Depends: [-libdbus-glib-1-1 (>= 0.50), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0),-]  libglib2.0-cil (>= 2.3.90), libipoddevice0 (>= 0.4.0), mono-classlib-1.0 (>= 1.0)
<slomo_> yes
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> this isn't mentioned in changelog, is it? :)
<slomo_> it is... the part about the .config file
<ajmitch>   * Install the .config file from ipod-sharp instead of our own now
<ajmitch> doesn't tell me much
<slomo_> in older versions there was no config file for ipod-sharp so i've written my own... it used dbus in the old days
<slomo_> now i noticed that there finally is a .config file... and that it doesn't use dbus anymore
<ajmitch> not that it'll make much difference
<ajmitch> since banshee will drag in dbus
<slomo_> yes
<ajmitch> slomo_: /usr/lib/banshee/Banshee.Dap/njb-sharp.dll does look like crack, right?
<slomo_> ajmitch: why?
<ajmitch> is it the same as libnjb-cil has?
<slomo_> ajmitch: yes... and the ipod-sharp.dll is the same as in libipod-cil
<ajmitch> crackful
<ajmitch> I'm guessing this is because upstream does some stupid bundling
<slomo_> exactly... i had a talk with meebey about it yesterday ;)
<ajmitch> yes, I saw some of that
<slomo_> iirc abock said that he does this because of unstable interfaces... but i don't understand him, he writes both libraries ;)
<tseng> snorp really wrote libipod
<slomo_> yes but lately only abock makes changes
<tseng> did you hear anything about 0.10.3 release date?
<slomo_> nope... maybe next thursday, he always releases on thursdays ;)
<tseng> there is cool stuff in cvs
<ajmitch> such as?
<tseng> reworking plugins
<tseng> there is more exposed, and you can enable/disable them
<tseng> fixes to last.fm
<slomo_> are there new plugins? or is the last.fm still the only one?
<tseng> there is a broken file system monitor
<tseng> and a sample plugin that prints random songs
<tseng> on the console
<slomo_> ajmitch: thanks :)
<Kyral> Anyone have plans to package the newest GNUStep?
<Kyral> hey slomo_
<Kyral> hey crimsun
<crimsun> Kyral: hi
* Kyral happy
<crimsun> about easychem?
* Kyral nods
<crimsun> yep, read earlier
<Kyral> Is it bad that this is causing me joy?
<crimsun> of course not :)
<Kyral> Oh in case Mez is listening, it builds CLEAN on Breezu
<Mez> Kyral ... ?
<Kyral> easy Backport ;P
<Mez> Kyral ....
<Kyral> joke ;P
<Mez> ... ?
<crimsun> just tell him whether you want it backported
<Kyral> my first package got into the repos officually
<Kyral> Actually I do need it backported lol
<Kyral> Lab Build uses it
<Kyral> and I ain't puttin' the lab build on Dapper
<ajmitch> Kyral: then ask, in one easy sentence :)
<Kyral> yah yah
<Kyral> I'm hyper right now sheessh
<Kyral> Mez: could you backport EasyChem to Breezy?
<Mez> depends
<Mez> does it WORK in breezy?
<Kyral> I don't have a test case yet lol
* Mez checks for FTBFS
<Mez> surely if somethings auto-synced from debian - they'd think enought o grab the new packages from debian that are deps of that package
<StevenK> Maybe the deps can't be synced, and need to be merged.
<zakame> hm can I just sync eris from sid?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> the new package names in 1.3.9-1 take care of the NMU/libstdc++ alloc
<crimsun> we don't have to do anything on our side, so a sync is fine.
<zakame> ooh, k then, was asking because I was worried about the Conflicts/Replaces thing
<zakame> rocking :)
<zakame> done
<crimsun> :)
<zakame> hi robitaille :)
<robitaille> Hello zakame
<zakame> hm, ncmpc's already in debian, perhaps another sync candidate :)
<dholbach> good morning and happy new year! :-)
<zakame> dholbach!!! happy new year!!!
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> to you guys too
<jsgotangco> now go to work!
<jsgotangco> *grin*
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I have been!
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: we live in the future
<ajmitch> I've even been working on my debian packages for a change
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, was that the sky I just heard falling? ;)
<ajmitch> :P
<dholbach> so who helps me to write the motu report? ;)
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> it'll be fairly short :)
<ajmitch> 'merges, merges, and more merges'
<zakame> merges indeed
<ajmitch> still > 200 assigned
<jsgotangco> use triple verbs it seems to be the rage lately
<zakame> ajmitch: speaking of debian, can you check my libmemcache for debian? its on mentors :)
<ajmitch> merge. upload. rejoice
<ajmitch> zakame: I can add it to the list :)
<zakame> ajmitch: thanks :)
<Burgundavia> when/where do people figure the next Ubuntu dev conference will be?
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: just after dapper is released, I guess.
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir, you figure may or end of April?
<Mithrandir> yes
<Mithrandir> iirc, that was what sabdfl said at UBZ
<ajmitch> hopefully somewhere interesting, though I doubt I'll get to go to this one
<Burgundavia> hmm, I have an opportunity to talk at LinuxFestNorthWest on April 30, which last year was right int he middle of UDU
<Burgundavia> I expect I will have to bankroll my own way
<sivang> ajmitch: why not?
<ajmitch> same reason as Burgundavia
<ajmitch> chances of sponsorship would be low
<sivang> eh :)
<Burgundavia> sivang, we both got full sponsorship to the last one
<sivang> same here then
<sivang> Burgundavia: yes
<Burgundavia> I am actually cleaning out my email todo list
<ajmitch> sivang: they prefer to sponsor people who are in the general area, and I won't qualify for that :)
<sivang> ajmitch: do you know where will be the general area next ? :-)
<ajmitch> not australia/nz
<Burgundavia> sivang, I heard rumours of Germany
<Burgundavia> I expect Europe
<ajmitch> germany was suggested at UBZ
<sivang> ah right, I think I remember now
<ajmitch> it won't be the US
<sivang> I hope not :)
<Burgundavia> I hope not too, but it is cheaper for me to get there
<Burgundavia> but I suspect we (NAers) are a minority
<sivang> Burgundavia: true, for me it's sky rocking high :)
<Burgundavia> Europe is a nice compromise. Amsterdam, London and Frankfurt are cheap and easy to fly into
<sivang> Burgundavia: I recall sabdfl saying something about Amsterdam as well
<ajmitch> anywhere with seedy bars.. ;)
<Burgundavia> amsterdam would be sweet
<Burgundavia> of course, the pot is better and cheaper where I live...
<jsgotangco> Asia is the future!
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, sadly, Asia is not today
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: sure but we'll get our jobs tommoro
<jsgotangco> w
<jsgotangco> :D
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you mean s/our jobs/your jobs
<jsgotangco> yeah
<tepsipakki> i'd like to package two libraries that aren't in universe or debian yet. upstream provides debian-packages, but how much of the debian-directory structure should be preserved?
<Burgundavia> thanks, but sales is not fleeing NA quite yet
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, also somebody who works is Delhi cannot calm down a screaming Exec at 4:30pm on a Friday
<jsgotangco> well...
<Burgundavia> because only grovelling on the floor can do that
* Burgundavia has had to do that, before in his support job
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: depends on how good the upstream packaging is
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: I've seen some where it was best to start from scratch
<zakame> tepsipakki: have you consulted with upstream about getting their package into the Debian proper?
<tepsipakki> zakame: yes, no reply
<tepsipakki> I'm talking about libgssapi & librpcsecgss, upstream is the folks at CITI (umich.edu)
<tepsipakki> they compile nicely, so in theory they shouldn't need much work
<ajmitch> compiling nicely is only the first step
<tepsipakki> Bruce Fields is the packages.. maybe I'll just ask him again
<tepsipakki> packager..
<zakame> tepsipakki: how about the license? is it good?
<zakame> (no time for me to check, and too lazy :P)
<tepsipakki> humm, seems to MIT.. is it a problem?
<zakame> not a prob, as MIT-X is DFSG-free unless I'm wrogn...
<zakame> tepsipakki: have you also asked the ppl in #debian-mentors about this?
<tepsipakki> nope, I should?
<zakame> tepsipakki: perhaps, as there are (already-existing) Debian pkgs :)
<tepsipakki> hmm, so what do I ask there?-)
<zakame> tepsipakki: what you just asked now ;)
<tepsipakki> ok, I'll try
<dholbach> zakame: your blog should be on planet ubuntu too
<zakame> dholbach: should I ping jdub then :)
<dholbach> zakame: yes :)
<zakame> dholbach: ok, thanks! :D
* ajmitch will soon be the only motu not on the planet ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: you do blog?
<ajmitch> I have a blog with little to no content
<ajmitch> not worth putting on there
<sivang> ajmitch: why the only one? :)
<ajmitch> sivang: I was joking
<lucas> hi everybody, happy new year
<dholbach> to you too
<dholbach> :)
<Gloubiboulga> I've reported a bug, but it seems to be a duplicate
<Gloubiboulga> What should I do ?
<zakame> happy new year lucas
<dholbach> \sh_away: you overwrote my istanbul package and it depends on python2.3 instead of 2.4
<dholbach> \sh_away: malone bug 6925 is yours to check, thanks
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
<ajmitch> malone 6295, that is :)
<dholbach> oh yeah ;)
<ajmitch> ok, there's my syncs requested for today..
<ajmitch> might as well cut down the outstanding merges a bit ;)
<ajmitch> hi ogra
<ogra> hey ajmitch
<ogra> happy new year
<Burgundavia> salut ogra
<ogra> hey Burgundavia
<dholbach> Burgundavia: tu seulement parles franais toujours?
<ajmitch> happy new year to you also, ogra  :)
<Burgundavia> dholbach, non
<jsgotangco> wow did whiprush even attempted to sleep?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, sleep is for the weak
<jsgotangco> tell that to someone past 30
<Burgundavia> that doesn't include me
<ajmitch> heh
<jsgotangco> :/
<Burgundavia> being 23 has it advantages and disadvantages
<ajmitch> sure
* Burgundavia finishes the conversion of planet.u.c to planet.corey
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> what junk are we getting spammed with today? ;)
<Burgundavia> awful things liek getting more people to join MOTU and the doc team
<ajmitch> oh no
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, is there a better bittorrent client we coudl ship by default
<ajmitch> we don't want more of them
<Burgundavia> preferrablly one that a) a single window
<ajmitch> no idea, I don't use bittorrent
<Burgundavia> b)remember torrent files across reboorts
<raphink> Burgundavia: what do we ship by default as of now?
<Burgundavia> raphink, gnome-bt I think
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> dunno this one
<raphink> on gnome I think I'd use bittornado
<raphink> which is light and reliable imo
<raphink> and either qtorrent or ktorrent on kde
<raphink> somehow it seems on this field qt/kde programs are more user friendly than gtk ones
<raphink> I see there's gtorrentviewer
<raphink> but I don't think this is actually a bittorrent client
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: good work on the HelpingUbuntu pages :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, you think they work well?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I think that MOTUGettingIntoIt needs a bit of an overhaul
<ajmitch> it's a bit sparse
<ajmitch> we've got a mailing list now, etc
<Burgundavia> so does the doc team stuff
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, someone demoed a half finished bittorrent cliento n p.u.c some time ago. Remember who it was?
<ajmitch> koke?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<ajmitch> I know he had one
<Burgundavia> it isn't whiprush
<ajmitch> http://koke.amedias.org/ for his blog
<ajmitch> http://www.amedias.org/~koke/gnome-torrent/
<Burgundavia> yep thats it
<Burgundavia> what is koke's real name
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, &
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, ^ (yes, I can type, when the moon is full and the tide is high)
<sivang> Jorge Bernal
<sivang> it's there on the page
<Burgundavia> sivang, thanks for telling me I need to sleep. Is 4am here
<Burgundavia> too many bloody Jorges in Ubuntu
<dholbach> \sh_away, Riddell: what about eric/eric3 packages? eric3 seems to be broken - shouldn't it be removed?
<sivang> hehe
* Burgundavia goes out to shoot one
<dholbach> \sh_away, Riddell: please have a look at the eric* malone bugs
<sivang> Burgundavia: go to sleep buddy, don't hurt yourself like I do :)
<ajmitch> about time I went to sleep
<ajmitch> got to bed at 7:30AM this morning ;)
<Burgundavia> indeed, morning all
<ajmitch> bye
<sivang> Burgundavia: night
<dholbach> we really need a Universe Bug Day
<dholbach> bugs just PILED up
<sebest> dholbach: i also noticed that some bug are fixed but not closed
<sebest> eg, the bug was pending because fixed upstream, and the new upstream version came out, bug the bug is left open
<dholbach> sebest: if they're fixed for you, make a comment to "reopen, if they occur again" and close the bug.
<dholbach> thanks for noticing
<sebest> i seems there is no way to know the version of the package when the bug was submitted
<dholbach> yeah, that's something i always ask first
<sebest> dholbach: what should i do if the bug is fixed in dapper, but not fixed in breezy?
<sivang> then you got yourself a backport :)
<dholbach> we generally close them.
<dholbach> if people complain, we can try backports
<dholbach> if they're serious to -updates
<sivang> sebest: it should be mentioned probably on bug filing guidelines that a user should specify what version of the package he opened the package against, and provide him some brief instructions on how to do that.
<sivang> until we get something for that in LP
<hyakuhei> LP?
<ajmitch> dholbach: when do you want a bug day? next weekend?
<ajmitch> I think it needs to be before UVF
<sebest> sivang, in fact there won't be backport because the bug is not critical, so it will never be fixed in breezy
<dholbach> ajmitch: dunno - we should ask the desktop team as well
<sebest> eg bug 3154
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
<sebest> eg bugnbr 3154
<sebest> there should be a way to say "won't fix in breezy" , "fixed in dapper"
<sivang> hyakuhei: https://launchpad.net/
<hyakuhei> sivang: danke
<ajmitch> ok, sleep time, night all
<sebest> ajmitch: night
<lfittl> who has the email address loic@dev.erodia.net? (I answered your comment on revu about audio-convert)
<ajmitch> pef
<lfittl> k, thanks
<zakame> gn8 ajmitch
<zakame> hi pkern
<pkern> Hi zakame (:
<pkern> lucas: rubyversionslist is very nice indeed. Looking at the list utnubu would only have to upload three packages from Ubuntu into Debian, almost all other packages are up-to-date.
<zakame> pkern: hmm, utnubu! how do I help? :)
<lucas> pkern: the lsit is only about ruby-related packages
<lucas> also, I don't think the goal is to upload all packages in ubuntu and not in debian
<pkern> lucas: Well, depends on the view. Please look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=already-in-ubuntu;users=utnubu-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org
<lucas> I saw that
<zakame> wb minghua
<minghua> zakame: hello zakame
<lucas> but what I'm saying is that a lot of quality checking must take place
<lucas> having packages without active maintainers sucks
<lucas> dholbach: can we discuss bug #4636 ?
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
<lucas> it renders the package unusable on breezy
<zakame> Ubugtu: what error?
<lucas> so I think the severity is "major", not "normal"
<lucas> (I was the one to set it to major, not the bug reporter)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> utnubu is an alioth project aiming to merge ubuntu packages back to Debian when needed, right?
<lucas> yes
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> thank
<raphink> s
<zakame> raphink : yeah, "Doing with Ubuntu what Ubuntu does with us. Where it makes sense, at least."
<pkern> lucas: I intend to merge libao-ruby to Debian, but as I just found a RFS for it on debian-mentors (dating back to 2004 though), I'll ask the maintainer if he wants to be sponsored.
<lucas> pkern: I think it should be removed from ubuntu
<pkern> lucas: Reason?
<lucas> I mailed ubuntu-motu about this yesterday
<minghua> Hmm, I thought utnubu also trys to get ubuntu-only packages in to debian, but I didn't look at utnubu carefully
* lucas looking for the mail
<pkern> minghua: That's right.
<lucas> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-January/000093.html
<pkern> RFS tend to be ignored, sadly enough.
<lucas> then I'll ask the maintainer if he is interested in providing a patch so the pkg-ruby-extras team can pick it up
<GanJ_L1Nk1n>  
<pkern> Ok.
<GanJ_L1Nk1n> 
<minghua> argh, forgot the scim causing gaim crash bug...
<lfittl> anybody here who has time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1282 ? :)
<lucas> pkern: your current way of looking for packages in ubuntu not in debian seems broken to me
<raphink> GanJ_L1Nk1n: ?
<lucas> not all packages in that case have -0ubuntu versions
<pkern> lucas: Please explain.
<GanJ_L1Nk1n> raphink: What?
<raphink> GanJ_L1Nk1n: nothing, just wondering what you mean by     ;)
<GanJ_L1Nk1n> raphink: it's russian language ))
<raphink> GanJ_L1Nk1n: I speak russian so you can't cheat on me on this ;)
<raphink> lol no luck ;)
<raphink> unless this is a KOI/UTF issue ;)
<GanJ_L1Nk1n>  !
<raphink> nope
<raphink> doesn't look any russian to me ;)
<GanJ_L1Nk1n> where are you from?)
<raphink> france
<lucas> pkern: look at http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/rubyversionslist.html
<GanJ_L1Nk1n> ohh cool
<lucas> libao-ruby isn't picked by your script since the version isn't -0ubuntuSHING
<raphink> ;)
<lucas> I'll add a filter to motutools to be able to easily remove packages from the output which have exactly the same version
<lucas> then I'll generate the output with the whole of debian+ubuntu
<pkern> lucas: By which script?
<pkern> lucas: It's in both versiondiff and missing-packages?
<raphink>  -   GanJ_L1Nk1n
<lucas> I don't remember
<raphink> in UTF-8
<lucas> maybe it was a grep-dctrl based stuff I saw yesterday in the archives
* raphink wonders when there'll be keyboards that show the keys when you switch the keyboard type
<zakame> raphink: speaking of russion, there was a russian iirc who designed such a keyboard
<zakame> *russian
<raphink> zakame: really?
<raphink> I meant something like a screen/keyboard
<raphink> that would print the characters on the keyboard when you switch kbd type/font
<raphink> I think I've seen one actually
<raphink> but it was still experimental
<raphink> and was to be solf for about $150 or so
<minghua> I remember reading about a keyboard that actually have a LCD for each key and will show the character on the LCD that correspond to the current keymap
<raphink> mhm
<zakame> raphink : yes, that's the one
<raphink> oki :)
<minghua> probably the same thing raphink is talking about
<raphink> I also heard that with the new technology allowing to detect where a sound comes from with 2 or 3 detectors on a board
<raphink> it was possible to make just one screen
<raphink> and have people type on the screen
<raphink> so the position where they typed would be detected
<raphink> zakame: that's the one you're talking about, no ? http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/
<zakame> me checks
<zakame> yep
<Yagisan> dholbach: ping
<raphink> :)
<raphink> http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/answers/
<raphink> lol
<raphink> It will be an open-source keyboard, SDK will be available.
<raphink> :D :D :D
<zakame> w00t
<raphink> Keys could be animated when needed.
<raphink> huhu
<raphink> There's no snow in Moscow in summer.
<raphink> useful info
<raphink> I love this layout http://www.artlebedev.ru/portfolio/optimus/hi-res/keyb_blank.tif
<raphink> very useful
<raphink> :)
<raphink> and really worth buying such a keyboard :)
<Mithrandir> somebody should obviously make it possible to display regular X applications on it.
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> you mean the shortcuts ?
<raphink> just like the show the photoshop commands
<Mithrandir> no, you should be able to put your xterms on it.
<Mithrandir> that'd be cool
<raphink> hahaha
<zakame> Mithrandir : w00t
<tseng> Mithrandir: hi
<Nafallo> lol
<Mithrandir> tseng: hi dude.  'sup?
<tseng> Mithrandir: this :) http://david.chalkskeletons.com/openbox.html
<raphink> hi tseng && Nafallo
<tseng> hiya
<Nafallo> hi raphink and tseng :-)
<Mithrandir> tseng: shiny
<zakame> heya tseng Nafallo
<Nafallo> hiya zakame :-)
<Nafallo> Mez: alive? :-)
<dholbach> Yagisan: pong
<zakame> wb mhz
<mhz> zakame: thx
<Yagisan> dholbach: sorry - was away for a bit
<Yagisan> dholbach: You wanted more info on malone bug 6011
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6011: "Moves all debs into REJECT if any .udeb was built." Fix req. for: debarchiver (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: NeedInfo http://launchpad.net/bugs/6011
<dholbach> Yagisan: yeah, i asked a question, which version you used - could you follow up on the bug?
<Yagisan> dholbach: sure, but it's also affects dapper
<dholbach> ah ok
<Yagisan> dholbach: I backported dappers to brezzy to see if it fixed it. It didn't :(
<dholbach> :/
<Yagisan> dholbach: and not knowing perl, I can really fix it
<Yagisan> crap - got to go - kids are fighting
<dholbach> Yagisan: have a nice day
<Yagisan> re:
* Yagisan notes he has more typo's then usual today
<Yagisan> dholbach: updated the bug report for you
<dholbach> Yagisan: for everybody - i just triaged the bug to have more information about the issue :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot for following up
<Yagisan> dholbach: no problem
<segfault> can i select any packages in universe? :-)
<dholbach> segfault: ?
<segfault> i mean, i'd like to package RoundCube.
<dholbach> that sounds great
<dholbach> you might want to read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<dholbach> that's our current process
<zakame> bye
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, bug #6195 is on dapper, not breezy
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6195: "Dependency trouble" Fix req. for: mozilla (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/bugs/6195
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: reopened it, thanks.
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Riddell> is asking elmo on IRC still the way to get stuff moved to morgue?
<tseng> email is better.
<Riddell> e-mail to which address?
<tseng> james.troup@canonical.com
<Riddell> ok, groovy
<Yagisan> am I the only one that thinks having psemu plugins in dapper is odd, without having a playstation emulator that can use them ?
<Manifold> Hello.
<raphink> hi Manifold
<raphink> :)
<Manifold> This looks complex.
<Manifold> Hey, is dpkg a ubuntu specific command/.
<Manifold> ?
<raphink> it is a bit complex indeed
<Manifold> I can't find it here http://www.ss64.com/bash/index.html
<raphink> but very interesting when you get to it :)
<raphink> nope
<raphink> it's a Debian command
<Manifold> OH.
<Manifold> Hrm.
<raphink> this is not a bash command
<raphink> or a linux general command
<raphink> its a Debian specific one
<raphink> that you'll find on all Debian-based systems
<raphink> Debian, Ubuntu, Xandros, Linspire, ...
<zakame> dpkg is the core of all debian-based boxen
<Manifold> "manifold u can the backport depository which will have it"
<Manifold> Where is this backport depository?
<raphink> :)
<Manifold> The wiki just gives me a list
<Manifold> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportsPackageList?highlight=%28backport%29
<raphink> Manifold: so what you want to do is turn a Debian deb into an Ubuntu one, right ?
<Manifold> Yeah, raphink
<Manifold> It's a pretty popular program.
<Manifold> http://mahogany.sourceforge.net/
<raphink> what program is it?
<Manifold> Mail checker.
<raphink> ok the first steps are
<raphink> 1) check it's not in Ubuntu yet (in dapper that is, since breezy is not the dev version)
<raphink> 2) if it's not in ubuntu yet, check if it's not in Debian yet (packages.debian.org)
<raphink> 3a) if it's already in Debian but not in Ubuntu, we'll have to sync/merge it
<raphink> 3b) if it's not in Ubuntu or Debian yet, we'll have to make a new package (or you'll have to ;))
<raphink> but first check the 2 first steps ;)
<raphink> for 1), go check on packages.ubuntu.com
<raphink> if it's not in Ubuntu and Dapper, also think about why it is so, and check if there was no bug reported about in either distribution in the past.
<raphink> Manifold: still with us?
<Manifold> Yeah
<Manifold> I'm looking through the debian packages, raphink
<raphink> ok
<Manifold> I've checked the old and new repositories
<Manifold> Of ubunut
<raphink> ok
<Manifold> ubuntu
<raphink> did you look at the ubuntu packages first?
<Manifold> First thing I did.
<Manifold> I used Synaptic,
<raphink> good
<raphink> well then you missed the dapper repositories ;)
<Manifold> With all the universe and multiverse
<raphink> unless you're using dapper now
<raphink> ;)
<Manifold> Hah. :P
<Manifold> Where are these dapper repositories?
<raphink> you should check on packages.ubuntu.com
<raphink> to search the dapper packages
<raphink> some programs are not available in breezy, but have been added in dapper
<raphink> Manifold: packages.ubuntu.com
<slomo_> StevenK: ping?
<raphink> and search in any version
<raphink> so you can also see if it existed in warty or hoary
<raphink> hi slomo_
<slomo_> hi raphink :)
<Manifold> raphink, "You have searched for packages that names contain mahogany in all distributions, all sections, and all architectures."
<Manifold> "Can't find that package."
<raphink> :)
<Manifold> Argh.
<segfault> how do i add my key to the revu keyring?
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so you didn't find the program in either Debian or Ubuntu
<JohnnyMast> segfault email a revu admin
<raphink> segfault: send a signed message to keyring@tauware.de
<Manifold> Hold on, the debian search is buggered up, raphink
<raphink> if I'm not wrong
<raphink> :s
<Manifold> I'm doing a manual search
<raphink> Manifold: is this program open-source?
<raphink> ok
<Manifold> Well, it's on sourceforge..
<Yagisan> Manifold: no deb called mahogany in either ubuntu or debian.
<Manifold> "Mahogany is an OpenSource cross-platform mail and news client."
<Manifold> Yes, it is.
<Manifold> OK, Yagisan
<Manifold> So that means..
<Yagisan> Manifold: you get to package it :)
<Manifold> A new package is to be made.
<Manifold> XD.
<Manifold> And how do I do that?
<Yagisan> raphink: did you get your box fixed ?
<raphink> Manifold: is it a recent program ?
<raphink> Yagisan: I think so too ;)
<Manifold> "Latest News
<Manifold>     * September 5, 2004 Progress update"
<Manifold> Fairly.
<raphink> Manifold: first thing for you is to read the New Debian Maintainer's Guide ;)
<raphink> Yagisan: didn't recover the files :(
<raphink> Yagisan: but I've set a networked backup system
<Manifold> That one, raphink
<Manifold> ?
<Yagisan> raphink: that's a shame. Which backup system did you choose ?
<Manifold> It's three years out of date.
<raphink> Manifold: a project that has released the latest update a year ago is not a recent one ;)
<Manifold> Oh damn.
<Manifold> XD
<raphink> I programmed my own Yagisan
<Manifold> Is it worth packaging?
<raphink> based on ssh with rsa keys, associated with rsync
<raphink> so rsync over ssh with rsa keys
<Nafallo> raphink: why? isn't the one on this channel enough? :-)
<raphink> my code is available as FOSS of course ;)
<raphink> if you want to look at it
<Yagisan> raphink: don't forget to make an offline backup too
<raphink> Manifold: if you think it's worth it, then it's worth it
<raphink> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html <--- Manifold for you
<raphink> Yagisan: yep
<Yagisan> raphink: think lightning strike near your place. Instant fried pcs.
<Manifold> You guys heard of Mercury Messenger?
<Manifold> http://www.mercury.to/
<raphink> beah
* Yagisan is busy with late night work
<Manifold> Mercury Messenger isn't on the Ubuntu or Debian repositories
<Yagisan> Manifold: If we, or debian don't have it, the general rule is you need to package it and send it to revu
<raphink> mercury is not open-source if I'm nto wrong
<Manifold> Is that a serious obstacle, raphink?
<Yagisan> Manifold: It will become your baby to look after
<Manifold> But I'm a Linux baby anyway.
<raphink> I think mercury is freeware
<raphink> Manifold: not to be included in multiverse
<Yagisan> Manifold: well, yes, it makes it very difficult. For starters we can't fix it if it is broken
<raphink> but you won't have it in universe if it's not open-source
<Manifold> So that means it just stays on my HD?
<raphink> Manifold: when famous apps are not available, you might wonder why ;)
<Yagisan> Manifold: no, difficult != impossible
<raphink> there is often a good reason
<Manifold> How do people use these famous apps?
<raphink> Manifold: you can work on any app if you want to, though
<raphink> :)
<Yagisan> Manifold: well, name a famous app - and we can tell you ;)
<Manifold> Er.
<raphink> Manifold: either they install them with the installer provided by the app
<raphink> or it's packaged as binary
<Manifold> I don't know too many Linux ones, raphink.
<raphink> such as acroread
<Manifold> NeoOffice?
<Yagisan> Manifold: never heard of it
<minghua> a few non-free apps provide their own .deb as well, e.g. opera
<Manifold> http://www.mercury.to/index.php?page=Downloads
<raphink> Manifold: Ubuntu is made to be and stay an open-source free distribution
<Manifold> There's  deb there.
<raphink> dunno it
<Yagisan> raphink: please don't suggest that acroread. It is now spyware
<raphink> Manifold: but acroread is an example
<Manifold> lol.
<raphink> and Opera was one till recently
<Yagisan> raphink: but opera was up front. acroread is not
<raphink> minghua: opera is open-source now, isn't it?
<minghua> google tells me NeoOffice is a OOo port to OS X
<Mithrandir> raphink: uhm, no?  Opera has never ever been spyware.
<raphink> Manifold: then test this deb
<Mithrandir> raphink: no, it's just free as in beer, it's not free.
<Manifold> Do you know where apt-get puts the programs I download?
<raphink> Yagisan: huhu
<Manifold> OK, raphink .
<raphink> Manifold: install lintian and linda
<raphink> and run them on the deb file
<minghua> raphink: no idea, I don't use opera myself.  I doubt it though, last time I heard it goes from adware to freeware
<raphink> and see how many errors and warning you get ;)
<raphink> never said thta Mithrandir
<raphink> Manifold: apt-get downloads the deb files and install them using dpkg routines
<raphink> ah ok that must be it minghua
<raphink> I don't use opera either
<minghua> Manifold: /var/cache/apt/archives
<raphink> just heard there was a change in it
<raphink> and thought it was open-source now
<raphink> I must have misunderstood
<Manifold> Aha,
<SEJeff> Manifold, why not use gaim?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: do you have any multi-arch stuff publicly available to test ?
<raphink> SEJeff: why not use Kopete?
<Manifold> 'Cause I think Gaim's UI is too clunky, SEJeff
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: no, unfortunately not.
<raphink> kopete rulez
<SEJeff> raphink, Because that would require me loading kdelibs and the qt libs into ram
<Manifold> Well, not too clunky, but too big and friendly, SEJeff
<SEJeff> Manifold, Have you used the latest beta of 2.0?
<raphink> oh yes indeed SEJeff same reason why I wouldn't use any gnome app ;)
<Manifold> I just downloaded it from apt-get
<SEJeff> raphink, To each his own. Do not start a flamewar
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: please give me a heads up when you do, I'd like to help in whatever way I can, even if it's just testing.
<raphink> exactly SEJeff :)
<raphink> I respect gnome users but I prefer kde :)
<SEJeff> raphink, Fair enough. I REALLY despise the children who bash eachother. It is to the detriment of open source as a whole
<Yagisan> raphink: gui's are for wusses ;) :-P
<ogra> Yagisan, develop a qemu based chroot script :) that would help a lot :)
<raphink> totally agreed SEJeff :)
<raphink> Yagisan: lol
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: sure, will do
<raphink> Manifold: did you have a look at the New Debian Maintainer's Guide ?
<Manifold> raphink, I got lintian with apt-get, but I don't know where apt-get put it
<Yagisan> ogra: It would just choke on the nptl binaries again :(
<Manifold> I'm still trying to run lintian, raphink
<Manifold> And that guide is huge, raphink.
<Manifold> ^^
<raphink> ah ok
<raphink> Manifold: tihs guide is the basis
<Yagisan> Manifold: You'll find most people here have memorised that guide
<raphink> Debian Policy is the next guide to browser
<raphink> browse
<raphink> and if NDMG is huge
<Yagisan> Manifold: or at least bookmarked it
<raphink> then I don't know what policy is ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, yes, the only way i found to bootstrap a ppc ltsp chroot on i386, or a i386 chroot on ppc was nfs mounting the dir from another machine and run the bootstrapping from there .....
<raphink> NDMG and Debian Policy are the docs that make Debian packages the quality they are
<Manifold> I got lintian with apt-get
<ogra> Yagisan, being able to do this from a qemu-ppc binary would rock
<Manifold> But I can't find where it put it.
<raphink> Manifold: and I reckon it's hard to swallow
<Manifold> :/
<Yagisan> ogra: I ah bothered the qemu devs to find out why it doesn't work. there is basic nptl support for arm though
<SEJeff> Manifold, dpkg -L lintian | grep bin
<raphink> Manifold: ok now run lintian on the deb you got
<Manifold> lol.
<raphink> Manifold: lintian is an automated tool to check for basic errors and mistakes in deb files
<Manifold> Oh, so I just run the deb now.
<raphink> you run
<raphink> lintian yourfile.deb
<raphink> with the deb you got on the website of the app
<raphink> and see what you get
<Manifold> bash: lintian: command not found
<raphink> if you want details, run
<raphink> lintian -i yourfile.deb
<Yagisan> ogra: in *theory* we can install ubuntu ppc in a qemu ppc system emulator, set up qemu networking and run the install like that
<raphink> did you really install lintian from apt-get ?
<Manifold> I'll double check.
<raphink> sudo apt-get install lintian
<Manifold> Oh, I got linda
<Yagisan> ogra: but do you really want to add a few hundred mb to the install cd for edubuntu eg to support that ? I wouldn't.
<Manifold> Apt-get said it was better
<ogra> Yagisan, then the nfs method with real hardware is easier ... what i mean is running something like: qemu-ppc ltsp-build-client --arch powerpc
<ogra> but deboostrap fails this ...
<raphink> hm it's not better, it's different Manifold
<raphink> you can test with both lintian and linda
<Manifold> D/Ling Lintian
<Yagisan> ogra: I know what you meant. It's not possible without nptl support added to qemu userspace emulation
<Yagisan> ogra: qemu systems level emulation supposedly works fine, but I currently lack the bandwidth to test it
<ogra> its possible to run qemu-i386 /opt/ltsp/i386/bin/ls  ...
<ogra> on a ppc
<ogra> the sad thing is that it doesnt work for scripts ...
<Yagisan> ogra: it will choke on larger apps such as bash - try it
<ogra> i did
<Manifold> It's in a foreign language, raphink
<Manifold> >.<
<ogra> it chokes on fork()
<raphink> haha
<Yagisan> ogra: yep - that is the nptl issue
<ogra> yup
<raphink> Manifold: paste it to a pastebin
<Manifold> What's that?
<raphink> Manifold: http://pastebin.com
<Manifold> Thanks for helping a new guy, raphink
<raphink> Manifold: I used to be a newbie aswell ;)
<raphink> and still am in many fields ;)
<Manifold> :] 
<raphink> and always happy to get some help :)
<Yagisan> ogra: supposedly, we could grab some of that nptl code from the arm portion, and somehow convert it for the rest of qemu, but that is beyond my current coding skill set
<ogra> and beyond my current focus ...
<Manifold> raphink, http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=487176
<ogra> i think we should think about it dapper+1
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> doesnt look too good Manifold
<Manifold> I'll run it through a translator
<raphink> ogra: what will be the name of dapper+1 ?
<ogra> dapper+1 :)
<raphink> dizzy elephant ?
<Yagisan> ogra: possibly. could you do me a favour, I'd like some comments on some stuff in revu
<raphink> :)
<ogra> no idea... mark announces new names some weeks before release normally ...
<Yagisan> raphink: u610
<raphink> haha
<Yagisan> raphink: I'm serious. breezy = u510, dapper = u604, dapper + 1 = u610
<raphink> oh yes
<raphink> sorry ;)
<raphink> of course
<raphink> :)
<Yagisan> ogra: could you give me your opinion on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1335
<Yagisan> ogra: I added amd64 support to it
<Manifold> Meh.
<Manifold> raphink, it's portugese
<Manifold> It's just telling you about the messenger itself
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> oh yes I hadn't noticed
<Manifold> All we know is that there's a syntax error in section 1 after the tag description
<minghua> Manifold: the lintian output just looks like error message on broken .deb description to me
<Manifold> So, now what can I do, raphink?
<minghua> I'd run dpkg-deb --info on said .deb package first
<raphink> not much Manifold since you don't have the source package
<Manifold> Ach.
<Manifold> Oh well.
<raphink> + the description is in portuguese, which is not good
<Manifold> Screw it then.
<Manifold> I should go and do something away from the computer.
<Manifold> Thanks for your help guys, raphink
<Manifold> See yer later.
<raphink> :)
<Manifold> (I'll be back with more questions.. :D)
<raphink> later
<raphink> ok
<raphink> hopefully we'll be here with more answers ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, i see no trace for a ia32-libs-universe package except in the changelog ...
<Yagisan> ogra: sorry - was attending to baby - thats here at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1329
<ogra> Yagisan, no, i mean you need a dependency anywhere
<Yagisan> ogra: It is in the run-time deps. check control.amd64
<ogra> ah, sorry, call me blind :)
<Yagisan> ogra: I switch it at build time if i'm on amd64. I couldn't get [!amd64]  type stuff to work for Depends lines :(
<ogra> from a packaging pov it looks fine, but i have no clue about assembler ... and i have no revu login ...
<Yagisan> ogra: ok - it basically uuencoded thei386 deb
<Yagisan> ogra: I was planning to do that for a few greatly desired i386 debs for dapper. eg wine
<Yagisan> ogra: at least until a real multi-arch solution is developed
<ogra> talk to the wine guys before, they plana amd64 version since a while
<Yagisan> ogra: will do.
<Yagisan> ogra: no issues with uuencoding i386 debs for amd64 ?
<Valandil> happy new year :)
<slomo_> Yagisan: they will be 1.5 times bigger... but it works ;)
<ogra> Yagisan, its ugly ...
<ogra> but i dont know another way to do it to solve your particular prob :)
<Valandil> Hi there :-) I'd like to work on MaxDB-packages
<Yagisan> thank you ogra and slomo_. I will proceed to upload dapper packages to revu "fixed" for amd64 like that, at least until a better solution is found.
<Valandil> I've worked on adapting the package from SAP to debian woody, but I never mantained a distribution-package before for public
<Yagisan> slomo_, ogra feel free to advocate any packages fixed like that :)
<Valandil> What can I do to help on these packgages?
<bmonty> morning everyone
<Valandil> mornig :)
<SEJeff> in */debian/control under section, is that where you put Universe / Multiverse / Main, etc?
<SEJeff> Or is that where you put Something like Security
<bmonty> SEJeff: you don't have to put anything in control to say a package is universe
<SEJeff> bmonty, Well what goes in the section directive of control? Anything other than Unknown?
<bmonty> SEJeff: see http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
<SEJeff> bmonty, Thanks. I'm right here now: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html starting off
<SEJeff> in synaptic, I am seeing, System Administration (Universe) as a section, is this valic?
<SEJeff> s/valic/valid/
<minghua> the universe/main separation is decided by the override file AFAIK
<minghua> which is a repository thing, not a package thing
<bmonty> SEJeff: I'd be guessing how synpatic knows which part of the archive a package is in, but the string in synaptic is not a valid section string
<SEJeff> ok. So I would be better off to leave the section as unknown
<bmonty> I *think* synaptic has been modified to know that anything in the /universe section of the archive is Universe and adds it to the section name
<bmonty> SEJeff: from the policy manual the "Section" field is optional
<SEJeff> Well I am packaging vsecurity, a kernel module adapted from grsec, openwall, cap_over, and some tpe lsm stuff from ibm. I am just trying to do it correctly and am new to debian packaging
<SEJeff> I read that, I just want to do everything correctly
<bmonty> SEJeff: bottom line, you don't have to do anything to make a package universe
<SEJeff> ok, thanks
<bmonty> anyone have any idea why a package I uploaded yesterday wouldn't be built?  The package is grass, I got the ACCEPTED email, but the buildd hasn't done anything with it yet.
<minghua> bmonty: in NEW queue, perhaps?
<bmonty> minghua: do you know how I can check? (I don't think it is in NEW)
<minghua> bmonty: the ubuntu NEW queue is invisible from outside AFAIK, I don't really know how this ftp-master/buildd thing works, there should be people that know better here
<bmonty> minghua: I'm with you on that one :)
<tseng> NEW is not visible
<tseng> but ACCEPTED != NEW
<minghua> bmonty: but if it has been in the archive before, it shouldn't be NEW (not unless you have new binary packages), that I'm pretty sure
<ogra> NEW == only if your binary or source name changed or if its really new
<bmonty> only the version and the diff changed
<minghua> for debian there is going to be a "package is NEW" mail sent to the uploader, not sure about ubuntu
<tseng> minghua: yes.
<minghua> tseng: thanks
<tseng> it looks like grass might be in depwait
<minghua> then bmonty obviously has a different problem, sorry for the wrong guess :-)
<tseng> see the previous version, unresolvable build-deps
<bmonty> tseng: I fixed the build-deps, that was the main reson to upload
<tseng> new uploads dont clear depwait
<ogra> according to your changelog it shouldnt be in NEW
<tseng> you need lamont
<tseng> or infinity
<bmonty> tseng: where did you check that?
<tseng> ..the previous build log as I said
<tseng> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/grass/6.0.1-1/
<bmonty> ahh, missed that, sorry
<bmonty> tseng: so basically it needs a little kick-start from an admin?
<tseng> yes, ask infinity if grass is in depwait and to clear it
<ogra> rather lamont
<tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildDaemons
<ogra> infinity is on holiday until tomorrow
<bmonty> tseng: yeah I just saw that
<bmonty> a little out of date
<tseng> item 2 is still relevant
<ogra> it will be completely obsolete once gina is ready and we switch everything to launchpad
<bmonty> ogra: how long for that?
<tseng> ogra: please no reminding
<ogra> lol
<ogra> bmonty, to quote debian ... "if its ready"
<tseng> we still havent switched fully to malone yet even afaik
<ogra> i'm sure it will happen before dapper
<ogra> (malone)
<bmonty> tseng: motu has
<tseng> im (painfully?) aware
<bmonty> refering to the fact that malone is prolific with email?
<bmonty> :)
<tseng> or the policy of "everything that ever touched our database should be displayed as a ui element on the page"
<tseng> among other things
<tseng> the things you actually want are hidden and useless stuff is all over
* tseng hasnt gotten a chance to speak to brad lately
<bmonty> I agree that malone needs a bit of a review from a usability standpoint
<slomo_> hm, i wonder why elmo has synced exactly one of my many merges... ;)
<bmonty> slomo_: because he likes getting multiple requests for the same package :)
<slomo_> bmonty: i'll write him a mail now :P
<ogra> slomo_, because he's on holiday since one or two weeks
<ogra> he'll return this week iirc
<bmonty> bbl
<slomo_> hmm... ok, but why does he sync one package then? he should ignore me when he is on holidays ;)
<ogra> because he's addicted and needs at least on sync a week ? :)
<Kyral> Morning MOTU
<slomo_> cyberix: i'm doing gnunet now... be happy ;)
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> Back to work
* Kyral calls up a terminal and begins working on a metapackage
<SEJeff> http://pastebin.com/487329 I am trying to have my package depend on kernel headers >= 2.6.12 but it is failing, any ideas?
<Kyral> How do you make a metapackage anyway...
<minghua> SEJeff: because there is no package named linux-headers, only linux-headers-2.6-386, for example
<Yagisan> Kyral: just a blank package that depends on other packages. Arch = all
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> and if I wanna throw customizations in?
<SEJeff> minghua, Is there a way to tell it to depend on 2.6.12 + so that it works in breezy AND dapper?
<Kyral> should I apply then in rules (ie, replacing the default sources.list)
<SEJeff> because linux-headers-2.6.12 and linux-headers-2.6.15 are different packages. Can you do boolean OR in the depends line?
<Yagisan> Kyral: what sort of customisations ?
<Kyral> Yagisan: for my linux lab
<Kyral> Yagisan: to help with updates lol
<minghua> Hmm, actually linux-headers seem to be a virtual package
<Kyral> so like I have a default install, then I install this meta and it pulls in the rest of the packages for the build, replaces the sources.list, xorg.conf, AFS things, etc
<Yagisan> Kyral: let me be more clear. Is it overwriting any part of the packages you intend to install ?
<rraphink> Kyral: use postinst, prerm, postrm, preinst
<rraphink> to customize your metapackage
<Kyral> oh
<SEJeff> minghua, So how can I have my package depend on linux-headers-2.6.12-* OR 2.6.15-*?
<rraphink> a metapackage is a simple package that just installs nothing ;)
<Kyral> so postinst would overrwrite
<minghua> SEJeff: yeah that sounds like a good idea to me
<Kyral> rraphink: I know, its not proper to call this a Meta then lol
<rraphink> sure it is Kyral
<rraphink> in that it installs nothing
<minghua> SEJeff: the problem though is there are many -* variants
<rraphink> it just depends on other packages and tunes some stuff
<Kyral> yah good point
<rraphink> ;)
<SEJeff> minghua: ok. Well I guess I will just make it work for the latest dapper kernel, thanks
<Kyral> I don't have to list EVERY dep do I? Like I can say build-essiential instead of gcc-4.0 bla bla
<tseng> no one depends on build-essential
<Kyral> Its needed on the build
<tseng> well every package doesnt depend on gcc
<Kyral> I mean that we need the compilers lol this is a lab for CompSci students
<Yagisan> Kyral: You'll need to make some careful edits to your package, to allow it to overwrite parts of other packages eg config files
<minghua> SEJeff: looking at it more carefully, depending on specific linux-headers-2.6.12-* is probably not a good idea since ABI version is also in the package name
<tseng> ...
<minghua> SEJeff: so yeah I agree you shouldn't bother
<tseng> should i say it one more time for good measure?
<Yagisan> Kyral: I have a sample package, but it's in a 414MB source package
<Kyral> ick
<rraphink> Kyral: this is a package that is not to be ubuntu, right?
<Kyral> fine..I'll list out the contents of Build-Essiential
<Kyral> right
<rraphink> just for your lab?
<Kyral> just a local lab build
<rraphink> then you do what you want with it ;)
<rraphink> put the depenencies you want installed by it
<Kyral> just for me to be lazy about updating it ;P
<rraphink> if you want build-essential installed automatically by it, then put it
<Kyral> Yah but I wanna be "right" by it
<rraphink> haha
<rraphink> well taht wouldn't be right in the distro
<Kyral> eh?
<rraphink> but for a personal use, it just matters that you end up with what you want
<Yagisan> Kyral: pm me, and I'll send you the extracted /debian directory
<SEJeff> minghua, thanks
<rraphink> and if your goal is to automatize the installation of build-essential, then put it
<Kyral> Yagisan: what is it?
<SEJeff> minghua, Could you look at this? Makes 0 sense to me as the version numbers are correct and it still fails: http://pastebin.com/487349
<Yagisan> Kyral: one of my can't-be-in-ubuntu-because-upstream-needs-a-cluebat packages, needs to overwrite files in another package
<Kyral> lol
<Yagisan> Kyral: It could be an example for you
<Gloubiboulga> If upstream doesn't provide an icon for a .desktop file, what can I do ?
<Gloubiboulga> make it myself (:/) or use a 'generic' one or...
<slomo_> make one or use no icon ;)
<Kyral> hmm
<Gloubiboulga> I thought an icon was needed
<Kyral> this gdebi
<Kyral> I like it...for a GUI tool
<minghua> SEJeff: -9.14, instead of -9-14? ;-)
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> Just as EasyChem gets into the repos, upstream releases a new version
<bmonty> this is weird, check out http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/science/grass, notice the version string mis-spelling of ubuntu
<bmonty> it is correct in the package's changelog
<Kyral> wait....
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> the GNOMEFiles entry says .5
<Kyral> btu the SourceForge download location says .6 (which I packaged)
<Kyral> and the homepage for the project says .6
<minghua> bmonty: it seems the one with typo is -0*, while the correct and most recent one is -1*
<minghua> no idea why that happened though
<Kyral> ah wait thats 2004..
* Kyral reddens
<bmonty> minghua: yeah, I just thought it was weird
<minghua> bmonty: is there an -0* entry in the changelog?
<bmonty> minghua: yes and no, whoever packaged the -0 version of grass dropped all the ubuntu changelog entries, I put them back in for mine
<minghua> maybe the previous upload indeed had a wrong version number
<bmonty> minghua: that is it...and the culprit is....\sh! :P
<Yagisan> night all
<lucas> ogra: can you request the sync of libgtk-trayicon-ruby, overriding all ubuntu-specific changes ?
<ogra_ibook> lucas, done
<lucas> thanks
<lucas> could a MOTU review bug #1299 ?
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
<lucas> bug 1299
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1299: "ruby (Ubuntu) - Image.read(filename) eats characters from filename" Fix req. for: librmagick-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTURuby, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/1299
<rraphink> dholbach: if you want to answer that is :)
<dholbach> i'm on the phone
<dholbach> brb
<dholbach> :)
<rraphink> ok
<dholbach> rraphink: that's a general patch page for existing packages
<jpatrick> rraphink: pingy
<rraphink> jpatrick: pong
<jpatrick> rraphink: never mind now
<rraphink> hmm ok
<rraphink> :)
<rraphink> happy new year anyway
<rraphink> :)
<jpatrick> I've changed 0ubuntu1 -> 1ubuntu1
<rraphink> hmm ok
<rraphink> in what package?
<jpatrick> and libaqbanking0-dev isn't working
<jpatrick> kmymoney2
<rraphink> oki
<rraphink> ah
<rraphink> in dapper?
<jpatrick> no in REVU
<jpatrick> (dapper)
<rraphink> hmm ok
<rraphink> what is libabanking0 for?
<rraphink> banking I guess but apart from that ;)
<cyberix> slomo: hurray!
<cyberix> :-D
<rraphink> jpatrick: are you getting it sponsored in Debian?
<jpatrick> yeah
<rraphink> ok good :)
<cyberix> slomo: Some distros have political issues with GNUnet, I've heard. :-(
<cyberix> slomo: Some non Debian derivatives.
<slomo> cyberix: "political" issues with gnunet? huh?
<cyberix> slomo: But it is great that Debian and derivatives have it. Makes them superrior
<slomo> cyberix: what exactly?
<cyberix> slomo: https://gnunet.org/drupal/?q=node/150
<slomo> cyberix: sorry, i can't find it ;) please tell me about it :)
* rraphink is having fun listening to free music on musique-libre.org :D
<slomo> cyberix: ?
<cyberix> slomo: I don't know more about it
<cyberix> slomo: They probably think they will be attacked by some evil media giants, if they have p2p software.
<cyberix> slomo: Or something like that
<cyberix> slomo: I don't know. Just read about it there.
<slomo> hm, they don't have mldonkey, nicotine, dc++, etc?
<cyberix> I don't know
<cyberix> Maybe it is the anonymity thing
<slomo> hm, ok... nevermind :) i like the idea of freenet and gnunet...
<cyberix> "SuSE has political issues with making a GNUnet package, and RH maybe the same. Still, that's nothing that we can fix -- bug them!" was the line I was talking about.
<ajmitch> morning all
<rraphink> hi ajmitch
<hunger> Is it possible to remove the eric3 deb from universe? It is broken (see lp#6042)
<Kyral> Yah I was about to say
<Kyral> the eric package provides
<hunger> Kyral: Yes, the eric package works... but eric3 looks newer. And why should known to be broken stuff hang around?
<Kyral> hunger: the eric3 package is the same as eric it seems
<hunger> Kyral: eric works, eric3 coredumps... so eric3 should get removed IMHO.
<Kyral> I know
<Kyral> I'm agreeing with you dude ;D
<hunger> Kyral: Hey, great;-)
<hunger> Hey, eric is even newer then eric3!
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> someone ping someone to purge eric3
<hunger> Man! that is really confusing!
<Kyral> no kiddn
<dholbach> good night
<Kyral> cya dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<seth_k|lappy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1365 can be archived; it's been uploaded
<seth_k|lappy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1257 can be archived; it's been uploaded too
<hub> can someone unarchive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=840
<hub> it hasn't been uploaded
<seth_k|lappy> hub, if you make a new upload it'll auto-unarchive
<seth_k|lappy> (new upload to REVU that is)
<hub> seth_k|lappy: yeah, but I have no reason to do one :-/
<hub> unless someone can explain what's wrong according to the latest comments
<seth_k|lappy> ahh
<lfittl> Does anybody have some time to review one of my packages? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1282)
<hunger> Damn... so many IDEs and still nothing that beats emacs:-(
* crimsun gently sidesteps the $IDE war ;)
<hub> hunger: people look at me when I use Emacs instead of KDevelop or Kate at the office
<SEJeff> hunger, Except for vim of course :)
<hub> hunger: fortunately there are vi users that understand me :-)
<hunger_> hub: Sorry, got disconnected... Oh... yes, I forgot about vi:-)
<hub> hunger: that was not a vi vs emacs war. it is just vi/emacs vs the rest
<hunger_> hub: Right. Vi works well, too. The rest is just too crashy to use:-(
<hub> hunger: or not that convenient
<SEJeff> vi + screen makes /me drool
<hunger_> hub: I never get to the point where I find out about inconvinient stuff:-(
<hub> they use KDE so they are used to ;-)
<hunger_> Just tested eric(3): Displays newly created files only, does nothing when trying to open files.
<hunger_> kdevelop crashes whenever I touch anything, eclipse is not really stable for me either.
<SEJeff> hunger, Scite is decent
<hunger_> SEJeff: I wanted to see what the fuss about IDEs is about. Scite is more of a texteditor, isen't it?
<SEJeff> Scite is more of a proof of concept app to showcase Scintilla. But it is a great programmers ide
<SEJeff> hunger, fast, stable, and a decent featureset
* hunger_ wants to do that every 6 weeks or so and so far couldn't get to like it.
<hunger_> SEJeff: I use scite on windows, I know what it does (there).
<hunger_> SEJeff: I was hoping to find something which supports unittests of ruby/python scripts.
<hunger_> Guess I'll stick with whatever texteditor is available plus several terminals.
<SEJeff> yep
<lifeless> hunger_: pyunit ?
<hunger_> lifeless: Guess that is what it is called in python.
<hunger_> lifeless: I was hoping to some frontend for whichever system used.
<lifeless> hunger_: vim.org has scripts to parse pyunit error and failure putput
<lifeless> *output*
<hunger_> lifeless: Somewhat like the proprietary rational robots (which is not too good but nice to look at;-)
<lifeless> I dont know what that does
<lifeless> so the analogy is useless
<psusi> if I fix a bug in a package, how do I want to use dch?  --increment or --newversion?  -a?
<Kyral> dch -i
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> increment the Ubuntu Revision
<psusi> so use -i and -a?
<psusi> ahh, ok... looks like just -i
<crimsun> unless it's from a sync, in which case you'll want to use -vfoo
<crimsun> doesn't really matter. You could just edit the version manually, too.
<psusi> hrm...
<psusi> I used dch -i to bump the rev and add a changelog entry,  but it did not change the rev... the package is built using the old revision
<bmonty> psusi: did you rebuild the source package?
<psusi> well, the old rev is in the name of the dir and the .dsc... I did pbuilder build *.dsc
<bmonty> psusi: in the package source directory run "debuild -S", that will make a new source package
<psusi> hrm... ok... then I will need to extract that source deb and pbuild the new .dsc?
<bmonty> no, just run the pbuilder with the new .dsc
<psusi> hrm... could not find a signing program
<bmonty> psusi: that is only needed if you want to be able to upload the package
<psusi> oh, ok... it did build the new files
<psusi> if a package is in universe and it's maintainer is @debian.org, does that mean it was just synced over and there is no ubuntu maintainer?
<crimsun> it may.
<ajmitch> usually
<crimsun> the only way to tell for sure is to look at the version.
<ajmitch> we don't change the maintainer field when we make changes
<psusi> how do you tell from the version?
<lifeless> does it have 'ubuntu' in it ?
<psusi> and if you are making ubuntu specific changes, aren't you maintaining it?
<ajmitch> if it has ubuntu in the version number
<ajmitch> hey lifeless
<lifeless> hola ajmitch
<psusi> nope... no ubuntu in the version...
<ajmitch> lifeless: opensync got rejected?
<ajmitch> I saw it in NEW, but nothing after that
<lifeless> ajmitch: yeah, I need to fix the copyright file
<lifeless> it mixes GPL and LGPL code
<lifeless> and maybe more. As the doco is incomplete on it I need to audit the entire freaking thing
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> nasty
<lifeless> indeed
<lifeless> its /README,/COPYING etc give no clue
<lifeless> thank god for ftp-master ;)
<thierry> anyone can explain me why my package (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1299) doesn't install any binary? I'm using cdbs
<thierry> also the same problem with http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1293 (in wich I'm using debhelper)
<lfittl> ajmitch: do you have some time to review a package? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1282)
<ajmitch> maybe
<lfittl> should be fast to do, it's just a small shell script, and i am the upstream author ;)
<ajmitch> lfittl: small shell scripts aren't always a good idea to package, having lots of clutter from many packaged shell scripts can be a pain
<lfittl> ajmitch: well since we had some packaging requests for nautilus scripts, I wrote this as a little "installer" for them, as we can't install to user dirs
<crimsun> thierry: no relative paths to the build dir in .install
<ajmitch> lfittl: maybe talk to #ubuntu-desktop guys about getting something included with nautilus itself?
<crimsun> thierry: err, wait a sec.
<ajmitch> thierry: does it even build a shared library?
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libfxscintilla1.6-0512241230/libfxscintilla1.6_1.63-0ubuntu1.buildlog has the build log
<lfittl> ajmitch: good idea, do you think it's realistic that a patch for this could go in fast enough? (as we only have less than 3 weeks left until UVF)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> I saw seb around earlier
<crimsun> it doesn't actually build a shared lib that I can see
<lfittl> ajmitch: thanks :)
<crimsun> thierry: you don't appear to be passing --enable-shared=yes
#ubuntu-motu 2006-01-08
<nalioth> anyone know "pkg building for dummies" ?
<nalioth> i have followed the kubuntu.org pbuilder howto and the chroot howto on the ubuntu wiki and neither one are working for me
<nalioth> google provides nothing enlightening
<crimsun> strict package building only requires a pbuilder
<nalioth> crimsun: i would like to know how to integrate gnupg into the initial environment, google is not helpful with that
<nalioth> i have been trying to get this working for weeks, and it is really irritating. i've been asking different folks, asking google in different ways
<crimsun> nalioth: do you mean for retrieving signed debs?
<tseng> comeon
<tseng> man debootstrap
<tseng> --include=gnupg
<crimsun> exactly
<nalioth> thank you. on to the next steps.
<crimsun> or if you use pbuilder create, pass --extrapackages=gnupg
<tseng> great.
<crimsun> (which really just passes it to debootstrap)
<thierry> crimsun : how do I put --enable-shared=yes in rules? I mean, do I simply put this in the top of the file??
<nalioth> well, the debootstrap wiki commands error out
<slomo> siretart: we may want to package http://mpeg4ip.sourceforge.net/  they improve libmp4v2 and some other stuff... but i don't know the legal status
<thierry> crimsun : and where should be the .install file and what are relative path??
<crimsun> slomo: we may want to use mythtv's -fixes svn branch; it compiles with g++-4
<crimsun> thierry: ignore my [mis] statement regarding .install
<slomo> crimsun: sounds good... do you want to do it? but i would ask mdz before...
<crimsun> slomo: he no longer maintains it for Debian, but sure
<crimsun> thierry: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --enable-shared=yes
<thierry> crimsun : ok but for --enable-shared=yes... do I put simply put it in the top of the rules file?
<thierry> crimsun : and that should solve my binary problem??
<crimsun> thierry: you need to build a shared lib at least, so that's a starting point
<slomo> thierry: you should read the library packaging guide if you want to package a library
<thierry> slomo : k, thanks
<slomo> thierry: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<sebest> slomo?
<slomo> yes?
<sebest> i have a really strange bug on dapper with the "applications" menu
<sebest> did you hear anything about it?
<slomo> it disappears instantly after opening it?
<sebest> so you heard about it :)
<ajmitch> many times
<slomo> seems to be a gamin bug
<crimsun> that would be one strange bug.
<sebest> yeah it's quite annoying the first time :s
<slomo> seb or dholbach said that it's gamin ;)
<ogra_ibook> its menu-xdg
<sebest> ogra_ibook: is there a known fix?
<sebest> i could strace it btw
<ogra_ibook> remove the broken symlink in /etc/xdg/menus/ and you are fine
<slomo> oh nice
<sebest> thanx :)
<sebest> fixed (rm debian-menu.menu)
<ogra_ibook> its known upstream and the right fix should be gamin ignoring broken links, but broken links are bad as well :)
<sebest> this broken link was DoSing my applications menu :)
<ogra_ibook> everybodys :)
<slomo> not mine... i never had this bug :P
<ogra_ibook> hmm, intreting ...
<ogra_ibook> i have it on all arches here
<slomo> i don't have it on my x86 and ppc :)
<slomo> no idea why
<ogra_ibook> cosmic rays ...
<slomo> maybe
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> either our pbuilders are broken, or...
<crimsun> err, buildds.
<Kyral> hm..could I call Apt from within postinst?
<crimsun> ..do what?
<Kyral> call apt-get from within a package postinst
<crimsun> that generally would be Very Bad.
<Kyral> yah I'm trying to think how to get around it
<crimsun> what specifically do you need to do?
<Kyral> Lab Build
<Kyral> I'm making a metapack
<Kyral> problem is that some of the stuff is in Universe and whatnot
<Kyral> so I need to replace the Sources.list before I can snag them
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> Absolutely Not.
<Kyral> yah thats what I thought
<Kyral> dpkg would be locked
<crimsun> That's not the issue. I mean yes, you can do whatever you really want to, but that's just the wrong way to go about it.
<Kyral> oh?
<segfault> i think i started packaging something with the left foot.
<segfault> heh
<Kyral> lol
<crimsun> it's better to use a shell script that backs up sources.list then appends the universe lines to the original copy
<Kyral> hmm, I could just use a shell script to wget the sources.list first, then wget the debpack...
<Kyral> Oh I'm not just getting stuff from Universe
<Kyral> there are some custom packs we need, so I'll be pulling from a repo I set up in the lab
<crimsun> that's why you'd want to back up sources.list then append the deb lines using tee -a
<Kyral> why would I backup the default list?
<crimsun> because you're touching it.
<crimsun> always make a backup.
<Kyral> this will never leave the lab lol
<crimsun> it doesn't matter
<Kyral> In fact I put in the desc field that if you see this out of the COSI then something is wrong
<crimsun> the first rule of system administration is always to make backups of files you touch
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> fine fine
<segfault> i'll package a php system, so basically what i have to do is those post-install scripts, right?
<crimsun> segfault: elaborate on "a php system"
<segfault> hehe, it's a php-based webmail
<crimsun> so it this system a metapackage or a completely new package?
<segfault> new package
<segfault> i mean, what it basically must do is the post-install stuff, like asking for the DB user/pass to create its tables, and other stuff
<crimsun> sure, I suppose if you're automating it
<segfault> ok
<segfault> thanks.
<shackan> hi, anybody still awake ?
<Kyral> yah
<shackan> any germans in here?
<shackan> hi Kyral
* Kyral begins to wonder what a rules file for a MetaPack would look like
<ajmitch> 'MetaPack'?
<Kyral> Metapackage I'm putting together for my school's linux lab
<ajmitch> right...
<Kyral> what?
<ajmitch> perhaps you could look at the numerous examples out there?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I know lol
<ajmitch> some people are really starting to irritate me on the -devel list
<crimsun> I've taken to reading digests
<Kyral> oh boy
<Kyral> I haven't looked at it in a while
<ajmitch> stay away from it
<ajmitch> or at least from certain threads
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> Oh I just skim it
<Kyral> if the subject sounds interesting I open it
<ajmitch> I bet this cvs->bzr conversion is going to take all night
<Kyral> otherwise its "Mark all as read"
<ajmitch> it's been going for a couple of hours already
<Kyral> looks like for this thing I can just touch build stamp and be done with rules
<ajmitch> goody, new libc6
<Kyral> oh boy
<Kyral> breakage!
<crimsun> I don't think the i386 buildds are working anyhow.
<ajmitch> Kyral: breakage?
<ajmitch> have you no faith in the glibc maintainers?
<Kyral> ajmitch: This is devel ;P
<ajmitch> so?
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I always expect breakage
<ajmitch> jbailey will be disappointed with you
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> Remember the libstdc6 transition?
<crimsun> do you mean libstdc++6?
<Kyral> yah
<crimsun> what about it?
<Kyral> broke X so bad that I had to resymlink a bunch of files lol
<Kyral> or maybe that was just me..
<crimsun> erm...
<crimsun> I don't think that had anything to do with libstdc++6
* Kyral shrugs
<crimsun> you probably mean the X.Org transition
<Kyral> there was an X transition?
* Kyral looks stupid
<crimsun> twice
<Kyral> oh
<crimsun> XFree86 -> monolithic X.Org -> modular X.Org
<Kyral> and I heard the big one is coming up
<crimsun> I think daniel's implication is that 7.0 is largely already in dapper
<Kyral> ah
<crimsun> well, jeff's changelog answered my question regarding --print-architecture, heh.
* Kyral actually enjoys breakage. Everytime something breaks he learns something
<ajmitch> excellent
<ajmitch> just sped up my merge comparison script by about 10-20 times
<Kyral> nice
<Kyral> I just updated my Wikipage
<psusi> I wrote my first spec wiki today... anyone care to critique it?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PacketCD
<ajmitch> Lathiat: ping
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/6260
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6260: "manager (Ubuntu) - network-manager breaks avahi" Fix req. for: network-manager (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6260
<Lathiat> cheers
<nalioth> next dumb question. i've added deb file:/home/USER/kubuntu/  (where my packages and Packages.gz are) but my pbuilder can't find my packages there
<ajmitch> because pbuilder uses a chroot & you'd need to bind-mount
<seth_k|lappy> right, because pbuilder is in a chroot
<ajmitch> see --bindmounts option
<ajmitch> or serve them via http
<seth_k|lappy> nalioth, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalAptGetRepositoriesTrivial is how I do it
<hub> ajmitch: the later is probably better
<hub> ajmitch: http serving
<nalioth> seth_k|lappy: will look. ty
<ajmitch> hub: sure, it's what I'd do
<hub> :-)
<nalioth> that is what is wankerin me
<nalioth> dang'd no local access POS
<nalioth> guess i'm goin in the web business now, too
<hub> web 2.0 :-)
<hub> could be worse
<ajmitch> never trust a .0 release
<hub> ajmitch: that's why ubuntu does not have .0 releases
<ajmitch> think of how far GNOME has come since 1.0 ;)
<ajmitch> ah, planet \sh again
<ajmitch> wonderful
<hub> planet bug
<hub> :-)
<ajmitch> hub: you're not on planet ubuntu?
<ajmitch> are you a member?
<hub> ajmitch: I'm membet
<hub> member
<hub> shall I be?
<hub> :-)
<hub> why not
<ajmitch> and you just need to bug jdub I guess
<nalioth> member of what?
<hub> ubuntu
<hub> ajmitch: I didn't even bother. maybe I should
<jsgotangco> it would be nice to have more people in planet
<hub> I read it from work ^-^
<nalioth> so if i'm an ubuntu member i can post on the planet?
<jsgotangco> nalioth, jdub will just have to add your feed yeah
<hub> nalioth: have your feed
<ajmitch> nalioth: if you're an ubuntu member, you can get your blog up on the planet
<hub> nalioth: planet is just an agregator
<nalioth> right now i'm spinnin with this pbuilder thing
<nalioth> fixin' to unleash a buncha powerpc stuff (when i can get it figured out)
<seth_k|lappy> whoa, you just have to be a member to be put on Planet? I thought it was devs
* seth_k|lappy ponders
<jsgotangco> seth_k|lappy, well it would be nice to post relevant ubuntu stuff
<seth_k|lappy> jsgotangco, I have an Ubuntu category
<jsgotangco> right
<seth_k|lappy> blast it, would someone mind looking at this really fast: http://seth.pastebin.com/488266
<seth_k|lappy> note the highlights
<seth_k|lappy> I first thought it was a builddir != sourcedir thing
* nalioth has dust on his blog, cuz he's from a time when there were no home computers
<seth_k|lappy> but patching for that didn't seem to work. Notice the first highlighted line shows a nice include path. The file that it "can't find" is in the same directory... why can't it see it?
<nalioth> still not working
<nalioth> i've managed to build arts with pbuilder and have gotten it into the local repos, have added the line to the pbuilder sources.list AND the ~/.pbuilderrc
<nalioth> but my kdelibs build still can't find libarts*
<seth_k|lappy> nalioth, did you sudo pbuilder update?
<seth_k|lappy> (with --override-config option)
<nalioth> bah
<seth_k|lappy> hehe
<nalioth> too much info
<psusi> shouldn't diff foo/ foo.orig/ show the changes I've made?  it's just showing me common subdirectories: and not the changes to the files I made
<nalioth> got this: E: The method driver /usr/lib/apt/methods/localhost could not be found.
<seth_k|lappy> nalioth, you sure you added the line correctly to sources.list?
<nalioth> boy i feel like breakin a hammer over my head
<minghua> psusi: you need diff -r
<psusi> ahh, thanks
<nalioth> seth_k|lappy: yes i just checked it. i can pastebin it if you have time to look
<seth_k|lappy> nalioth, sure thing
<TheMuso> nalioth: Have you generated a Packages file with dpkg-scanpackages?
<nalioth> TheMuso: yes, that was the easy part
<TheMuso> So apt recognises it as a valid source?
<psusi> when I do debuild -S, I get a bunch of complains about reversing patch, unreversed patch detected! skipping patch, 1 out of 1 hunk ignored -- saving rejects
<nalioth> havent changed my local sources.list
<psusi> what gives?
<TheMuso> nalioth: What about when you run pbuilder?
<nalioth> n/m
* nalioth breaks another hammer
<nalioth> you guys have my utmost respect for having to go through all this crap
<viviersf> yawn
<viviersf> hello guys
<nalioth> this is really farkin me off now
<ajmitch> hey viviersf
* StevenK waves to various people.
<nalioth> why is it erroring on localhost
<ajmitch> evening StevenK  :)
<viviersf> how you been ajmitch , i was away having leave
<ajmitch> nalioth: /etc/hosts?
<ajmitch> viviersf: I've been ok :)
<ajmitch> enjoy your time off?
<nalioth> ajmitch: this is in pbuilders settings
* StevenK wonders if there is now a point to requesting syncs.
<viviersf> yeah ajmitch
<nalioth> i've used localhost and 127.0.0.1 in the url, but it still reports localhost is not a valid method
<nalioth> seth_k|lappy: you get that URL i sent?
<seth_k|lappy> nalioth, yeah
<seth_k|lappy> nothing wrong with it
<ajmitch> nalioth: method?
<ajmitch> StevenK: sure, why wouldn't there be?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Well, last time I asked someone, they said elmo was on VAC.
<nalioth> there are FAR too many places to change with pbuilder
<StevenK> ajmitch: Can you request pngwriter, positron, albatross and vblade be synced?
<ajmitch> he might be on vacation but he's still been syncing within 24 hours or so
<ajmitch> StevenK: request made
<StevenK> ajmitch: Thanks.
<ajmitch> welcome back, lamont
<lamont> \sh_away: pondering ccmalloc... it unconditionally runs g++-3.3, but only build-deps it on some platforms... iz bug, I think.
<rendi> hi
<rendi> can some one help me about package name eaccelerator
<rendi> where to get it
<seth_k|lappy> StevenK, he just accepted a NEW package for me this morning, so methinks no vacation for him
<rendi> from this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=38738&highlight=eAccelerator
<ajmitch> rendi: looks like it's not in universe
<rendi> ok how to add http://packages.dotdeb.org/ to /etc/apt/sources.list ?
<rendi> just put it on end of file ?
<nalioth> again, i thank you guys
<nalioth> this packaging stuff is turn me into a real sys-admin  ;)
<Kyral> night MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> morning
<dholbach> good morning
<Gloubiboulga> hello dholbach
<dholbach> hey :)
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<jsgotangco> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey jerome
<TheMuso> Hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> TheMuso, hey when's the next a11y meeting?
<TheMuso> Just posted a message about that to ubuntu-accessibility@
<nalioth> another stupid question: how do you make a text file with all the text on one long line?
<nalioth> is it a emacs or vi thing?
<dholbach> nalioth: you can do that in any editor
<dholbach> who's going to help with MOTU Report?
<ajmitch> sure
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft - if you have anything you found exciting in the last month
<nalioth> dholbach: ty
<ajmitch> if I can think of something to write up ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: i'll think about it, when i go out with my dog
<dholbach> ajmitch: but we have a lot of NEW people we could have their say
<ajmitch> I'll have to read the last report to see what was covered already
<ajmitch> since most of what's been done has been merging, holidays & drinking
<ajmitch> no more MOTU school sessions were run
<dholbach> can we announce a new meeting?
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> actually the last report didn't cover the 1 MOTU school session that was done
<dholbach> oh cool
<ajmitch> we can announce a new meeting if you want
<ajmitch> ask for times on the list
<dholbach> and nothing happened about the motu open day :/
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> well that's something for us to do in the next week or two
<dholbach> no intriguiging new ideas on it
<GregorR-L> Does Ubuntu Universe contain every package from Debian sid?
<GregorR-L> With emphasis on /every/
<GregorR-L> :P
<ajmitch> main+universe(+restricted, etc) should have most
<ajmitch> apart from ones which we've removed
<ajmitch> since everything is synced across
<ajmitch> KillerKiwi2005: hello
<GregorR-L> Hm - so would the most effective way to get a package into Ubuntu be to get it into Debian sid (since I'm barking up that tree anyway)?
<KillerKiwi2005> ajmitch: hi :)
<ajmitch> GregorR-L: that's one way, and if it gets into sid before upstream version freeze in dapper, it'll get aynced automatically
<ajmitch> KillerKiwi2005: another kiwi then? :)
<KillerKiwi2005> ajmitch: yes, aukland you?
<GregorR-L> So the question is, what's the average turnaround time of debian-mentors :P
<ajmitch> dunedin
<ajmitch> GregorR-L: no idea, that'll vary quite a bit
<GregorR-L> Yeah, that was sort of sarcastic :)
<ajmitch> depending on how easy it is for you to get a sponsor & for them to upload it
<KillerKiwi2005> ajmitch: he needs a sponsor
<ajmitch> KillerKiwi2005: I gathered that much
<KillerKiwi2005> ajmitch: ;)
<ajmitch> GregorR-L: you have requested someone to sponsor it on debian-mentors?
<nalioth> i'll be back when i run out of hammers
<GregorR-L> ajmitch: Yeah, and I've squeeky-wheeled on #debian-mentors - I think I need to be more patient :)
<ajmitch> if you wanted it uploaded to ubuntu directly you could upload it to REVU for us to review it
<GregorR-L> Would there be a conflict if I uploaded it to both and it got accepted into Debian?
<ajmitch> no, because to upload to ubuntu you'd have to change the versioning for ubuntu (to avoid those conflicts)
<ajmitch> it's still a good idea to try & get it in debian
<Mez> because then it can be synced over :D
<GregorR-L> I am of course - I think I'll go that route until I'm sure I have no chance :P
<Mez> GregorR-L, you finally got your pbuilder working I assume ?
* ajmitch sees 1 mail on debian-mentors from you, not even a week ago :)
<GregorR-L> Mez: I made a debootstrap - I prefer a nice complete system anyway :P
<Mez> :0
<StevenK> pbuilder can be made fairly complete with a little work.
<ajmitch> GregorR-L: btw, 1.0.0-1 is less than 1.0.0rc5-1 :)
<GregorR-L> ajmitch: I realize it says that ... but it isn't >_<
<ajmitch> I know that's not what you intend
<ajmitch> but you would have had fun if you'd got 1.0.0rc5 into debian, and then tried to get 1.0.0 uploaded
<GregorR-L> Whatever system is used to compute version numbers clearly does not understand release candidates -_-
<StevenK> GregorR-L: dpkg --compare-versions
<ajmitch> no, it's a perfectly reasonable system that dpkg uses
<StevenK> steven@broken:~% dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.0rc5-1 lt 1.0.0-1
<StevenK> zsh: exit 1
<GregorR-L> It's a tough problem to solve, there's no consistency in version numbering.
<Mez> 1.0.0-1~rc5 ?
<Mez> :P
<ajmitch> Mez: not guaranteed safe for dak still, iirc
<Mez> dak ?
<StevenK> The Debian archive scripts.
<Mez> ah
<Mez> lol :D fair enough
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> I remember the PITA we had with getting the Ubuntu scripts to work with the ~'s
<ajmitch> GregorR-L: fails to build
<GregorR-L> Humm.
<GregorR-L> >_>
<ajmitch> don't worry
<GregorR-L> That's nae good.
<ajmitch> that's just the start of the problems ;)
* ajmitch is retrying in sid pbuilder
<GregorR-L> lol
<ajmitch> checking for suitable m4... configure: error: No usable m4 in $PATH or /usr/5bin (see config.log for reasons).
<ajmitch> looks a bit odd
<dholbach> what does config.log say?
<GregorR-L> Well that's odd .... why does it even want to autoreconf?
<GregorR-L> Oh, or why does it use m4 8-D
<ajmitch> this is checking in configure
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'd tell you if pbuilder hadn't cleaned it.. ;)
<ajmitch> but m4 is required by configure
<dholbach> ajmitch: build it locally ;)(
<ajmitch> and it's not in the build-depends
<GregorR-L> OK, I guess I have to add that to my build-depends.
<ajmitch> configure.ac has checks for a few libraries that aren't in build-depends
<ajmitch> though I see you're not enabling the gaim plugin
<ajmitch> debian/rules looks like a dh_make template, complete with useless commented out bits
<ajmitch> you have a .desktop file, and don't use dh_desktop
<ajmitch> dh_install is commented out?
<GregorR-L> A standard build of DirectNet will only use FLTK - it has other UIs, but will only use one, so only one is in the build-depends.  Other than that, it just needs libc.
<ajmitch> debian/copyright is bare, it doesn't have the standard 3 paragraphs that are in src/client.c, for example
<GregorR-L> Ummm ....
<GregorR-L> debian/copyright has content for me ...
<ajmitch> sorry, 'rather bare'
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<Tonio_> happy new year
<ajmitch> hello Tonio_
<GregorR-L> The "License" text was from one of the guides ... the new maintainer guide I think.  It said to use that for GPL.
<ajmitch> it's best to use what is in the source - which is the 3 standard paragraphs that the GPL states
<ajmitch> this package would get checked again for licensing by the debian ftp master
<ajmitch> best to get it fixed here before it's rejected later on :)
<GregorR-L> Hmm, should update that guide then ...
<ajmitch> GregorR-L:  less /usr/share/debhelper/dh_make/licenses/gpl
<ajmitch> it should also include a copyright year
<GregorR-L> Hmm, I'm pretty sure that the function of dh_install ended up in "install:" ... not sure why XD
<ajmitch> dh_install isn't essential for single binary packages
<GregorR-L> I just need to take out all those commented ones anyway :P
<ajmitch> yes please
<GregorR-L> I got it working from dh_make but didn't remove the kruft.
<ajmitch> the cruft is listed as a possible reason for ftp-master rejection on http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html
<GregorR-L> Hah
<GregorR-L> Hmm, /me googles for dh_desktop
<ajmitch> eg the copyright that I was talking about is http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/12/msg00188.html
<GregorR-L> Well, I made a menu entry ... I ought to avoid even installing the .desktop file ...
<ajmitch> please don't
<ajmitch> ubuntu for example (and possible gnome in experimental) doesn't use .menu files
<GregorR-L> Okidoke.  So I just need to add dh_desktop in "binary-arch:" ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> in the appropriate place :)
<GregorR-L> Of course.
<ajmitch> and check if you really need some of the ones that are commented out, or are uncommented
<ajmitch> eg you have debian/info but dh_installinfo is commented
<ajmitch> dh_link but nothing specifying what to symlink
<GregorR-L> Hmm, those don't install - I shouldn't even have debian/info.
<GregorR-L> What is dh_link supposed to do?  AFAIK I don't need any symlinks, so I guess that goes.
<ajmitch> read its man page
<GregorR-L> WOAH, every dh_* has a man page O_O
* GregorR-L is sort of slow :P
<ajmitch> since you should really be able to say what each of the dh_* commands you are using do
<GregorR-L> Yeah :P
<ajmitch> well, actually you should know what every line in debian/rules is doing :)
<GregorR-L> Out of curiousity, what's the process of finding somebody to package a file in Debian for you? XD
<ajmitch> hm?
<GregorR-L> That is, to actually make the package from upstream source :P
<ajmitch> asking someone to package something is filing an RFP bug on a wnpp psuedo-package
<ajmitch> s/a wnpp/the wnpp/
<GregorR-L> Maybe I need to do that >_> <_<
<ajmitch> why is that?
<GregorR-L> Because I'm that pathetic :)
<ajmitch> heh no
<ajmitch> you've got this far
<GregorR-L> OK, lesse :)
<GregorR-L> rules is less cruftular now, and license and info are right.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> build-depends on m4?
<GregorR-L> Yup
<GregorR-L> Hmm, neither of the docs in docs are useful ... maybe i should remove them.
<ajmitch> it's fairly common to include README & NEWS
<ajmitch> often AUTHORS as well
<ajmitch> I wouldn't call NEWS particularly edifying though
<ajmitch> another common suggestion is to include the homepage in the description
<GregorR-L> The README is on the dumb UI, which isn't what I set it to build.
<ajmitch> so in debian/control, you'd have the long description, a . on a line by itself, then 'Homepage: http://directnet.sourceforge.net'
<GregorR-L> Hey, wait ... autotools-dev is set as a dep, but that certainly depends on m4 ...
<ajmitch> no, autotools-dev doesn't depend on anything :)
<GregorR-L> Well.  OK >_>
<ajmitch> look at its description
<GregorR-L> Oh, I see.
<GregorR-L> Indeed I need m4.
<GregorR-L> OK, lesse if this baby builds.
<GregorR-L> ajmitch: It doesn't like the dot on the line by itself - are you sure it's needed?  I thought the one-space indent was how it kept track.
<ajmitch> sorry, true
<ajmitch> not nearly enough sleep again :)
<GregorR-L> Heheh
<GregorR-L> Hey, it's building 8-D
<GregorR-L> Thanks for the help :)
<GregorR-L> Uploaded 1.0.0-2 :)
<ajmitch> hm
<GregorR-L> >_>
<ajmitch> looks better
<GregorR-L> Well, that's ... better :P
<ajmitch> btw you don't need to manually copy in the manpage, dh_installman will do that
<GregorR-L> Huh - that makes sense.
<GregorR-L> When I removed the manual installation, it didn't install it at all.
<GregorR-L> Even though dh_installman is there.
<ajmitch> man dh_installman
<ajmitch> you need debian/manpages
<GregorR-L> I'm not very good at using man :)
<ajmitch> or you do dh_installman debian/directnet.1
<jsgotangco> python-crack?
<ajmitch> yep
<jsgotangco> nice name
<ajmitch> sums up ubuntu in 1 package
<ajmitch> python-f2py is next on my upload list
<GregorR-L> ajmitch: Any other notes before i throw 1.0.0-3 onto mentors.debian.net?
<ajmitch> nope
<GregorR-L> Hoopla.
<ajmitch> so I guesd it's probably about ready for uploading
<GregorR-L> I'm doing a quick check to make sure everything is functional :)
<ajmitch> that's always a good help
<GregorR-L> Seems to be working, so it's uploaded.
<ajmitch> great
<GregorR-L> Thanks for all the help 8-D
<ajmitch> now would you like me to make a final check & upload it to debian?
<GregorR-L> That would be incredibly awesome :)
* ajmitch is just waiting for another merge build to finish up
<GregorR-L> Must ... not ... sleep ...
<GregorR-L> Sleep ... is ... bad ...
<ajmitch> why?
<GregorR-L> Well, it isn't :-P
<ajmitch> oh, I'd avoid using a hotmail address for your maintainer address :)
<ajmitch> hotmail is just plain nasty
<GregorR-L> It is - but the address is posted publically, and I really don't want to paste my real address publically ...
* ajmitch really does need a faster box for compiling
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Yagisan> do we have jigdo images of breezy ?
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan
<ajmitch> no idea, sorry
* ajmitch needs to do more uploads
<ajmitch> I've just about squashed my non-zope merges
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch. I was hoping we do, I need a breezy cd quick, but I'm out of bandwidth, I do however have a massive breezy cache - so I thought I could regenerate an iso from that.
<ajmitch> google?
<ajmitch> yeah, google shows me results straight away
<ajmitch> any mirror carries the jigdo templates
<Yagisan> ajmitch: even www is going very slowly today :(
<Yagisan> ajmitch: got some good news today - I may be getting some joint ventures in Japan soon :-D
<ajmitch> excellent! :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: My wife is beside herself - she's been wanting to go back for ages
<ajmitch> she's originally from there?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: Yes, she's Japanese, from Tokyo
<ajmitch> I knew she was Japanese, I didn't realise she'd emigrated from Japan
<ajmitch> ok, syncs requested, probably about time for me to sleep
<Yagisan> ajmitch: It was very hard to keep her here. Immigration paperwork was a pain in the arse, expensive too!
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I can imagine, Australia isn't known for open immigration policies
<ajmitch> see you tomorrow, I'm off for the night :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: Oh, wait to you see Japan's immigration policys ! The general rule is , you don't get to immigrate
<StevenK> slomo: You pinged me?
<slomo> yes... yesterday :) because of sponsoring one package for debian... but i guess it's now again late in the night for you?
<StevenK> Correct. It's 11:30pm
<StevenK> I was in fact about to /away myself before you changed your nick.
<Yagisan> StevenK: It's not that late here ;)
<StevenK> Is too.
<slomo> StevenK: np :) i'll ask you again tomorrow... gn8 then :)
<StevenK> Night. :-)
<markuman> @
<markuman> sry
<lucas> 'lut raphink
<raphink> salut lucas
<raphink> 'lut lulu
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> a roulotte lucas ?
<[A] ndy80> hi
<raptoid> hi, [A] ndy80
<[A] ndy80> I built the .deb package for ubuntu of aMule 2.1.0.... who can i send it to?
<lucas> you mean you packaged it ?
<lucas> which version of amule is currently in ubuntu ?
<lucas> and debian ?
<[A] ndy80> lucas: on ubuntu the current available is 2.0.3
<[A] ndy80> I built the 2.1.0
<raphink> [A] ndy80: you mean on ubuntu breezy or dapper?
<[A] ndy80> raphink: I'm using ubuntu breezy, and I built it on breezy
<raphink> [A] ndy80: breezy is the stable version, so it's frozen
<raphink> if you want to build a package, make if for dapper
<raphink> since you won't put any package in breezy
<raphink> the packages we update and make now are to be in dapper
<lucas> dapper has 2.0.3-3ubuntu2
<[A] ndy80> raphink: I think it will work for dapper too, you can test it if you want. I can tell you that it works on breezy. I don't expect you include my package on breezy, but I hope someone will find usefull to have it on breezy to.
<lucas> debian sid has 2.0.3-4+b1
<raphink> [A] ndy80: understand that on Debian systems, it's not about providing a package and leaving, it's about maintaining it
<[A] ndy80> raphink: you can include this package in dapper, but please TEST IT... I'm using it right now, but it's my FIRST .deb package :)
<lucas> [A] ndy80: the fatest way to get your package into dapper is currently to file a bug against amule on debian
<raphink> so you dont' give your work and not deal with what happens afterwards
<lucas> saying that you patched the package to build amule 2.1.0. and provide a patch
<raphink> so you test it, you make it available, you fix it, and so on ;)
<raphink> you are resopnsible for your work :)
<lucas> then amule 2.1.0 will automagically get into ubuntu
<[A] ndy80> lucas: amule has already a lot of bug fixes the should justify its inclusion in breezy too... but it's not my goal.
<lucas> [A] ndy80: your goal here should be to get amule 2.1.0 in dapper
<[A] ndy80> I will be very glad if you want to accept my little contribute, but I don't know if I'll have time to mantain it... do you understand?
<raphink> [A] ndy80: maintaining is not the biggest part of it
<lucas> then just file a debian bug about it
<raphink> but it's the essential one
<raphink> it doesnt' take much time
<raphink> but if it's not done, everything fails
<[A] ndy80> raphink: I'm going to think about it.... but anyway.... amule package already has a mantainer... first I'll write a mail to him so we can work together.... don't you think?
<raphink> sure taht can be an option
<raphink> there's a big chance that this maintainer has other packages to maintain
<raphink> you could try to do a NMU in Debian
<[A] ndy80> NMU?
<raphink> and get it sponsored
<raphink> non maintainer upload
<lucas> raphink: what you are saying is wrong.
<raphink> (or update ? :s)
<lucas> the correct way to handle this is to :
<lucas> 1) upload to REVU
<raphink> lucas: ok
<lucas> 2) file a debian bug with severity wishlist saying that version 2.1.0 is available and that you updated the package. Attach the patch to that bug report.
<raphink> lucas: to wnpp ?
<raphink> or to amule?
<[A] ndy80> you are getting me very confused O_o
<slomo> raphink: to amule... wnpp is afaik only for ITP and similar stuff that has no known (to debbugs) package name yet
<[A] ndy80> REVU? WNPP?
<raphink> slomo: ok thanks
<raphink> trying to understand the Debian packaging way at the same time
<raphink> [A] ndy80: http://revu.tauware.de
<lucas> raphink: there's already an amule package in Debian
<raphink> k
<raphink> [A] ndy80: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<[A] ndy80> ok...
<zakame> evening all :)
<[A] ndy80> let me read it :)
<raphink> hi zakame
<zakame> heya raphink :)
<lucas> dholbach, ogra: ping ?
<lucas> I was wondering whether a MOTU meeting was planned in the near future
<lucas> I'd like to raise the subject of the MOTU-related pages on the wiki
<lucas> I find it extremely difficult to find something in them
<lucas> or should I raise the topic on the mailing list ?
<zakame> lucas: hm, I was beginning to wonder too :)
<zakame> lucas: I think there would be a meeting the soonest, possibly after the merges are done and UVF passes
<zakame> but raising that on the ML isn't a bad idea either ;)
<lamont> asmail_1.8-1 has missing xorg build-deps.
<zakame> gaah
<raphink> [A] ndy80: I guess you read the NDMG too, before packaging
<[A] ndy80> raphink: No, I didn't....what is NDMG?
<zakame> er that's DNMG, Debian New-Maintainers Guide (the maint-guide package)
<[A] ndy80> ok, no I didn't.
<[A] ndy80> so the package is released AS IS
<raphink> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
<raphink> [A] ndy80: _how_ did you package ?
<raphink> how did you know the way to make a package?
<raphink> ad what tools did you use ?
<[A] ndy80> raphink: I simply used "checkinstall" with these options: checkinstall --pkgname=amule --pkgversion=2.1.0 --pkgrelease=2 --pkglicense=Restricted --pkggroup="P2P Clients" --pkgsource=http://internap.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/amule/aMule-2.1.0.tar.bz2
<[A] ndy80> that's all
<zakame> ah, checkinstall
<raphink> ok well that's not a package that could be included in any distro then
<raphink> building a package is a work that takes a few hours
<raphink> sometimes more
<raphink> we care about details
<raphink> this is what makes Debian a stable and powerful arch
<raphink> there are tools to make packages
<zakame> raphink: w00t
<raphink> checkinstall is a tool to use packages when compiling a program
<raphink> if you have no time to make a real package
<raphink> but checkinstall will not provide a package to be included in any distribution
<raphink> [A] ndy80: if you want to provide a nice package, read the NDMG
<raphink> that will teach you the basis of packaging
<[A] ndy80> raphink: ok... so don't use my package. At this moment I've no time to read the NDMG and to make a real package.
<zakame> and go to the #ubuntu-motu-school too when it's time ;)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> [A] ndy80: you're welcome to contribute with packaging whenever you're ready to
<[A] ndy80> ok, thanks
<raphink> but packaging is not about running checkinstall on a source dir
<raphink> would be nice though ;)
<raphink> if it was that easy
<raphink> :)
<tseng> Lathiat: SwitchTower is the new hotness
<thierry> I had some problems with uninstalling binary in my package... could someone check it now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1371 ?
<chninkel> hi
<Kyral> hello
<chninkel> I am interested in helping motu
<chninkel> where exactly can I begin ?
<Kyral> Killing Bugs?
<thierry> chninkel : understanding how packages are made and how to create some is a great start
<chninkel> well I already did some debian packaging
<thierry> Killing bugs will also help you for this
<dholbach> chninkel: cool
<chninkel> but i am not a dd
<dholbach> chninkel: you could package something new and upload it to REVU (REVU and UniverseCandidates are the wiki pages, which might be interesting)
<dholbach> or you could help in the ongoing merging efforts (merging debian changes into ubuntu)
<dholbach> or squash bugs which are assigned to the 'motu' team
<dholbach> there is usually a lot to do
<dholbach> and it's fun in the team
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I mean they put up with me without killing me :D
<chninkel> Do we kill breezy bugs also or only dapper ones ?
<dholbach> chninkel: we absolutely focus on dapper
<chninkel> Kyral: :)
<dholbach> only super-duper important stuff for breezy
<Kyral> like critical bugs
<Kyral> like segfaults
<chninkel> I see very few bugs here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+bugs
<thierry> dholbach : how can I get all bug assigned to MOTU team??
<Kyral> LJ!
<chninkel> is it the page where to look for bugs ?
<tseng> no
<LaserJock> Hi all
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
* Kyral bounces LJ
<chninkel> oh ok
<chninkel> and how exactly can I help with the merge effort ?
<LaserJock> heah is lucas around?
<Kyral> LJ I updated MOTUScience page
<LaserJock> saw that
<LaserJock> very cool
<lucas> yes
<Kyral> MOTUScience is valid now lol
<chninkel> dholbach: with launchpad, why is there some bugs with (Ubuntu) and some with (Ubuntu Dapper)
<LaserJock> lucas: I tried to work on the MOTU Wiki pages, see MOTU/DocTodo
<dholbach> chninkel: that's just users choosing something random
<Kyral> Actually...should I join the MOTU LP Team?
<LaserJock> lucas: I agree that it needs a lot of work
<dholbach> chninkel: but it's designed to indicate that bugs are in different releases and distributions
<lucas> LaserJock: okay
<chninkel> dholbach: ok, but it a bit confusing the first time
<chninkel> dholbach: anyway, I will try to kill some bugs to begin with
<dholbach> chninkel: if you want somebody to introduce you to merging or how our processes for new packages work, just say so
<dholbach> chninkel: it's nice you showed up here :)
<lucas> LaserJock: I'll try to give it a try this evening
<chninkel> dholbach: well yes, I am interested in merging also
<chninkel> dholbach: but is better to begin ?
<chninkel> dholbach: +what
<dholbach> who can give chninkel an introduction and a simple merge to do?
<LaserJock> tseng: ping?
<LaserJock> dholbach: I wrote something at w.u.c/Merging but I don't know if it is any help
<Kyral> I should merge lol
<dholbach> chninkel: you could have a look at the Merging page on the wiki
<LaserJock> Kyral: yes you should ;-)
<chninkel> dholbach: this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge ?
<thierry> dholbach : about killing bug, we have a patch there wich has been created with your help, could you take a look at it? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xfonts-artwiz/+bug/3255
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3255: "artwiz (Ubuntu) - fonts install in non-standard directory" Fix req. for: xfonts-artwiz (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/3255
<dholbach> thierry: CC the 'motureviewers' team on the bug
<thierry> k
<dholbach> merci
<LaserJock> chninkel: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
<LaserJock> chninkel: also
<Kyral> LaserJock: I'm....internet impaired right now lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: me too :(
<Kyral> LaserJock: all uploads from my Production Box are kinda shot
<Kyral> I'll regain full on the 10th
<chninkel> LaserJock: thanks, I will read this page
<dholbach> chninkel: to be honest, i don't know if MOTUToMerge or Merging is more recent
<LaserJock> Merging is more recent I believe but it isn't neccesarily better ;-)
<chninkel> dholbach: Merging seems more useful to understand how to effectiverly do merging
<dholbach> chninkel: i wasn't much involved in the MOTU Merging, to be honest :(
<chninkel> and how do I know the list of packages to merge ?
<LaserJock> chninkel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge has lists
<jsgotangco> slacker!
<dholbach> jsgotangco: says who? :)
* jsgotangco hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> :)
<LaserJock> chninkel: look for the link to revu.tauware.de
<thierry> dholbach : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/apt-watch/+bug/728 the last comment says to close the bug, should I?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 728: "watch (Ubuntu) - Asks for root password" Fix req. for: apt-watch (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/728
<chninkel> LaserJock: ok thanks, I read all theses pages and I am back
<dholbach> thierry: yes
<thierry> k
<LaserJock> dholbach: do you have a minute or 2 to review my package (plotdrop)?
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred.
<thierry> where is the build log when I build a package with pbuilder?
<Kyral> thierry: it doesn't make one by default
<dholbach> you have to pipe the output into a file
<thierry> Kyral : how do I get one?
<Kyral> you have to pass the --logfile <location> option
<Kyral> I think
<thierry> k
<Kyral> man pbuilder to make sure
* Nafallo <3 --pkgname-logfile
<lucas> 2
<lucas> ah
<lucas> Ubugtu doesn't pick up :)
<Treenaks> #3
<jeld> hello all
<LaserJock> lucas: how is what you are proposing different from what is already present?
<lucas> mine looks more structured to me
<lucas> the current structure looks a bit flat
<lucas> with a lot of pages to merge
<lucas> I like to have a "global view"
<lucas> but in general, my proposal meets yours
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I guess the only real difference is I like to have a Wannabe section
<LaserJock> but in essence I think we are both thinking on the same page
<jeld> this is a bit of a silly question, but is there a list of things that people requested to be packaged, I would like to help out packaging/porting stuff
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<jeld> LaserJock: thanx
<LaserJock> jeld: btw that is a good question and not silly at all :-)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> we are getting more Trainees eh?
<LaserJock> always
* Kyral makes a note to get his MOTU License before Dapper+1
<jeld> LaserJock: if I cuold make a suggestion, could be a good idea to have a link to that page from the MOTUTodo
* LaserJock reminds Kyral to merge, merge, merge ;-)
<LaserJock> jeld: there isn't one?
<LaserJock> jeld: it is there under Packaging
<LaserJock> "UniverseCandidates - A wishlist of programs that people would like to have included in Ubuntu. These need to get reviewed and packaged.UniverseCandidates - A wishlist of programs that people would like to have included in Ubuntu. These need to get reviewed and packaged."
<Kyral> Actually I'm working on yamysqlfront
<LaserJock> Kyral: what does it do?
<jeld> oh, crap, overlooked it
<Kyral> MySQL frontend thing
<Kyral> Upstream is very responsive :D
<LaserJock> jeld: np , thanks for checking
<Kyral> and looks very...awesome
<Kyral> but I emailed upstream and he said he is about to release a new version with a crapload of bugfixes soon so I'll work on it then
<LaserJock> Kyral: cool, although I don't use MySQL (that I know of)
<Kyral> I do
<Kyral> Kassetra pointed it out to me
<lucas> I reworked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU to give a better view of what MOTU work is
<lucas> please comment, improve, it
<lucas> etc
<dholbach> lucas: thanks for your efforts - you rock!
<dholbach> lucas: MOTUNewSoftware -> UniverseCandidates?
<lucas> nah, I want to explain it better before redirecting to UniverseCandidates
<lucas> and also talk about REVU, etc
<lucas> so it gets easier to get the global picture
<seth_k|lappy> s/monthly\ hold/monthly-held/ for bonus points
<lucas> I didn't write that ;)
<lucas> but I'm fixing it
<dholbach> lucas: sounds good
<dholbach> ROCK!
<dholbach> it'll be much easier for everybody and life in MOTU land will be happy again
<lucas> anyway, the 'Useful links' part is going to change a lot
<LaserJock> lucas: just be careful about creating a lot of new wiki pages, they become hard to get rid of ;-)
<lucas> I'll remove and add redirects to those who are no longer necessary
<LaserJock> lucas: we should probably have one wiki page for each section of material
<lucas> "section of material" ?
<dholbach> we should have a backup wiki and just dump stuff we think might not be needed any more and see how long it takes until somebody complains ;)
<lucas> dholbach: we have an history, don't we ?
<LaserJock> dholbach: well that is what I intended MOTU/DocTodo for but that would be good too
<LaserJock> lucas: we could have Documentation page and a Team page (MOTUTeams is already there) etc.
<lucas> yep
<LaserJock> if we seperate the wiki into a few navigational wiki pages that we then link to all the other "work" pages
<LaserJock> we can then update the navigational pages easily but it still remains easy for people to navigate
<LaserJock> I asked over at -doc about redirects and deletions and it was suggested to use redirects for anything older than about 2 weeks and to google URLs to see if anything is linking to pages that we want to delete
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe we could use MOTUWork, MOTUDoc, MOTUInfo, and MOTUTeams for navigation ?
<lucas> MOTUWork seems to generic
<lucas> I started adding all bugfixing-related content to MOTUBugFixing
<LaserJock> I imagine that the process realated info would be linked to MOTUWork, do you have a better suggestion for a name?
<lucas> well, we can split the different processes in different pages
<lucas> merge/syncs-related => MOTUMerging
<lucas> bugfixing => MOTUBugfixing
<lucas> REVU/UniverseCandidates => MOTUNewSoftware
<LaserJock> lucas: right but I think it would be good to have a few navigational pages but maybe it would be better to split them
<lucas> I think the navigation between MOTU{Merging,Bugfixing,NewSoftware} can simply be MOTU
<dholbach> and we should probably move to MOTU/...
<LaserJock> sure but I think you lose some of the "big picture" view
<LaserJock> dholbach: I think so, some don't like it but I think it is worth
<lucas> LaserJock: I think the big picture is first about getting people from the outside to understand what we do
<lucas> then, one link away, how we do it
<lucas> (and one the same page, how they can help)
<lucas> is there a wiki page describing the merging process ?
<LaserJock> hmm, I like the idea of using navigational pages that only link to (and describe) the actual working pages
<LaserJock> w.u.c/Merging
<lucas> but then you get a lot of navigational pages
<lucas> and you get lost
<lucas> (like currently)
<LaserJock> no, just a few that have lots of links
<LaserJock> it is easier for me anyway
<lucas> you can use MOTU for that I think :-)
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> then MOTU would be huge
<lucas> not _that_ huge
<lucas> since in the process
<lucas> some pages will disapear
<LaserJock> well but we want to allow for people to be able to make wiki pages without having to worry about the navigation
<LaserJock> too much anyway
<lucas> I'm not sure we understand each other
<LaserJock> well, I think we aren't that far apart
<lucas> can you explain "navigational pages" ? I'm not sure I understand what you mean
<LaserJock> ok, so on the MOTUWork page we could provide an overview and links to all the process related pages. That way we don't have to move content much and people get a better picture of where the pages are
<LaserJock> maybe we don't need to have seperate pages but sections on the MOTU page
<LaserJock> but the main thing I think we need is some seperation between navigation and content. The content creators most likely will not want to worry about the navigation
<lucas> mmh, what would you change from what I just did on MOTU and MOTUBugFixing ?
<LaserJock> and also the navigation will be more consistent and organized
<LaserJock> well, I guess it doesn't really describe what kind of content it has, tutorials, process, todo?
<lucas> I don't understand why you seek separation between content and navigation
<lucas> I hate when I have to go through several pages before finding the content I'm looking for
<LaserJock> well because the people who are writing docs don't want to have to worry about navigation and organization that just want to write a little howto or something
<LaserJock> s/that/they/
<LaserJock> I don't think you would have to go through several pages
<lucas> then they can just add a link somewhere to their page
<LaserJock> but I could be wrong. I mean that is just what I personaly find helpful
<lucas> anyway, just writing a little howto in a random place without seeing the global picture is a bad idea IMHO
<LaserJock> right but that is how the wiki ended up this way and really it isn't to bad if you add a layer of navigation and organization, I don't think
<lucas> well, I'm personally not very happy with the wiki currently
<lucas> and I think that a lot of people have problems understand what MOTU is about etc
<LaserJock> so basically you would like to have a page on each topic will all the content for that topic
<LaserJock> right but that is why we need to fix it
<lucas> maybe subpages when the page gets very long
<lucas> but currently, we have A LOT of redundancy
<lucas> dholbach: about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<lucas> couldn't we just manage the lists via launchpad bugs ?
<lucas> aren't the lists redundant ?
<lucas> like: when a merge is ready, the bug is assigned to motureviewers
<LaserJock> ok, my problem is that I see the problem as a navigational more so than content
<lucas> when the upload is done, the motureviewers adds a comment
<lucas> and when the package is built everywhere, somebody closes the bug
<LaserJock> lucas: well MOTUToMerge predates motureviewers
<lucas> ok, so we could just add a note in bold to MOTUToMerge saying to use motureviewers, no ?
<LaserJock> well, http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py at least
<LaserJock> which it does
<lucas> all this redundancy...
<LaserJock> very true
<LaserJock> but again I see the problem as navigational
<LaserJock> people don't know they are being redundant if the don't know what is already there
<LaserJock> although I don't think there is that much redundecy with the merging
<LaserJock> other then how to
<LaserJock> I think MOTUToMerge has all the info
<lucas> yep, but the tables at the bottom are not needed
<LaserJock> well, kinda
<lucas> since motureviewers-assigned bugs can be used instead
<LaserJock> those also predate motureviewers
<LaserJock> but I think they are still valuable
<LaserJock> I think for merging, REVU and motureviewers are too slow
<lucas> REVU has nothing to do with merging
<LaserJock> doesn't motureviewrs use REVU? maybe I am way off
<lucas> nah, motureviewers uses bug reports with a debdiff attached
<LaserJock> what is it used for then?
<LaserJock> only for Malone patches?
<lucas> well motureviewers is a LP team
<LaserJock> ok, well maybe there is redundancy there then. but that is mostly due to evolving processes for merging
<LaserJock> anyway, I really feel that the MOTU wiki needs to seperate navigation/organization and content to some degree
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure to what degree and how to best achieve it
<LaserJock> maybe eventually a lot of the MOTU stuff will need to move off the wiki
<lucas> going home. will be back soon.
<psusi> I'm trying to add a new specification to launchpad and it is saying that the name has an error: constraint not satisfied... the name is "PacketCD", what on earth is wrong with that?
<psusi> ohh, nevermind... it didn't like the capital letters
<lucas> re
<chninkel> hi again, I merged mysql-server-common
<chninkel> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mysql-query-browser/+bug/6390
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6390: "query-browser (Ubuntu) - mysql-query-browser: merge new debian version" Fix req. for: mysql-query-browser (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/bugs/6390
<chninkel> Am doing the merge thing correctly ?
* lucas looking at it
<lucas> the changelog diff seems strange to me
<lucas> since the versions are out of order
* lucas continues to destroy^H^Hreorganize the MOTU wiki ;)
<chninkel> well I used http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/mysql-query-browser/mysql-query-browser_merged.patch
<chninkel> it put the changelog in this order so I thought it was ok
<lucas> never believe the patches from MoM ;)
<chninkel> ok first rule learned ;)
<chninkel> I had to reapply the same change as in 1.1.17-4ubuntu1
<chninkel> do I have to mention it again in my changelog entry ?
<lucas> it's better
<chninkel> ok
<lucas> the more info you put in your -ubuntu changelog entry, the easier it will be for the next person doing a merge
<lucas> but maybe, in this case, you should check that libmysqlclient15-dev still doesn't exist on dapper
* lucas powers up his devel system to check :-)
<chninkel> still doesn't exist
<chninkel> already checked ;)
<lucas> ok
<lucas> so, except that you have to re-order changelog entries, everything looks fine
<lucas> have you rebuilt the package etc ?
<chninkel> yes
<chninkel> but the binary doesnt' work
<chninkel> but the previous package segfaulted
<chninkel> so the bug must exist in the debian package
<GregorR-L> Should a debian/copyright file have multiple "Copyright Holder" lines?
<chninkel> I will try to look at this bug but I first wanted to know if I did the merge thing correctly
<lucas> chninkel: have you checked if it is reported in the debian BTS ?
<chninkel> lucas: the segfault bug was filed, but the new binary crashes with a different error message
<chninkel> lucas: I will try to setup a debian unstable environement to test
<chninkel> lucas: seems necessary to work on merging stuffs with debian unstable
<lucas> ok, good idea
<lucas> it's easier, but not always necessary
<dholbach> you could all do me a favour: there are quite a lot of bugs for universe packages - please have a look after you did a merge, if they can be closed
<dholbach> i suppose there is *quite* a bunch of stuff that is resolved by just doing a rebuild (which is done with a merge)
<chninkel> lucas: thanks for your help
<raphink> dholbach: I just largely modified https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU . Can you review it ? ;)
<dholbach> raphink: sistpoty and siretart would be the better candidates for that
<raphink> ok
<psusi> anyone know of a page I can read to learn about how debconf scripts work?
<lucas> raphink: which parts did you change ?
<raphink> lucas: hehe
* lucas modified REVU basically at the same time
<raphink> lucas: i'm editing to keep your changes and mine
<lucas> arg
<lucas> ok
<raphink> trying to keep both ;)
<lucas> my changes are only about adding the Additional rules section
<raphink> you added Additional rules, right?
<raphink> ok
<raphink> then it's fine
<raphink> maybe it could be moved though
<raphink> there could be a section to explain how to upload
<raphink> dput -f blahblah_source.changes
<raphink> containing this stuff about reviewing your app before submitting
<lucas> well, the thing is, reviewing is part of packaging
<lucas> not uploading
<lucas> so I don't think it should go to REVU
<lucas> can you add a note to MOTUNewSoftware ?
<lucas> about reviewing ?
<raphink> hmm you just put it there though
<lucas> yeah
<lucas> well, I don't know :-)
<raphink> Additional rules
<raphink> (moved from UniverseCandidates)
<raphink>  you must have reviewed this package for known security vulnerabilities and provide patches for all of them
<lucas> yeah I know
<lucas> it was totally out of place on UniverseCandidates
<lucas> it's a bit better on REVU
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> haha
<raphink> lucas: can you review the page and tell me what you think ?
<raphink> I modified quite a lot of things
<lucas> I still find the introduction a bit confusing
<lucas> it could probably be made more clear
<lucas> also, === Register as reviewer === is displayed unformatted
<raphink> can you reload the page ?
<raphink> I corrected that 5 mins ago
<lucas> ok, true
<lucas> "howto upload" should go to "contribute as uploader"
<lucas> not contribute as reviewer
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> indeed :)
<raphink> i'll move that
<raphink> The upload process is similar to uploading to ubuntu, see [:Uploads] 
<raphink> I don't think that's very useful
<raphink> since new REVU uploaders are not Ubuntu uploaders
<raphink> obviously
<raphink> what do you think lucas ?
<lucas> I agree
* lucas votes for a removal ;)
<raphink> :)
<Kyral> Is it safe to say that the OSI Approved Licenses are the same ones we can use (ie, if a package falls under one of them we can use it)
<tseng> eh its more complicated than that
<tseng> for an extreme case see the fluendo mp3 thread
<tseng> but ftp-master checks all that on new packages
<Kyral> oh I was wondering what that thing was about
<raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<raphink> bbl
<Kyral> oh boy
<Kyral> Some non-coder asked me to explain Open Source and why some game doesn't fall under it
<psusi> "Because they don't give you the source code"
<Kyral> Actually they are in this case
<psusi> then it is open source ;)
<Kyral> ...but I don't see a license anywhere
<Kyral> I meant by the OSI def
<psusi> no license at all?
<Kyral> no
<psusi> then it's in the public domain, wee! ;)
<Kyral> www.uplink.co.tk
<Kyral> You have to buy the source
<Kyral> guy is claiming once you have it you do whatever
<psusi> do you sign a license agreement when you do that?
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> I'm not tryin' it
<psusi> well, whatever it's license is, if they give you the source code, its open source in my book ;)
<tseng> if you pay for the source, its not exactly open at all
<Kyral> He plans to mod it and release it as a new game
<Kyral> yah thats my point
<Kyral> that I'm trying to drill into him
<psusi> I consider it open source even if you pay for it... you got the source and you can modify it... that's what OSS is about, not free as in beer
<tseng> i guess you might be able to release code under the bsd, ship a binary and charge to see the code
<tseng> or mit
<psusi> Kyral: depends on what the license is... he may not be able to distribute it to others... and in any case, he certainly can't release it as a new game without crediting the original authors
<Kyral> Oh I know that
<Kyral> about crediting
<Kyral> its common decenty to credit the original authors anyway
<tseng> anyway this converstaion seems to be totally based in a hypothetical plane
<Kyral> yah good point
<psusi> tseng: exactly... it doesn't matter weather you pay for it or not... or if you can redistribute it... if you got the source, that's what matters
* Kyral shuts up
<tseng> psusi: eh microsoft gives people source under strict conditions
<tseng> its not open or free in the same sense as osi
<psusi> but... if you got the source code to this game without agreeing to a license, and there isn't one clearly posted in the source itself... it sounds like it's in the public domain
<tseng> or gnu
<psusi> tseng: right... conditions that are far more strict than they give the binaries under... which is to say, you buy a copy of windows, you don't get the source... hence, it's not open source
<Kyral> jeez I didn't mean to start this lol
<jouni__m> have anyone tested buoh online comics reader 0.8.1?
<jouni__m> It just needs libsoup-dev installed and then ./configure ,make and make install
<dholbach> lucas: you're flooding my inbox :-)
<Kyral> dholbach: this is what I use Evolution filters for :D
<lucas> heh
<lucas> I'm stopping soon
<raphink> siretart : can you give me your opinion on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU ?
<lucas> I'll still try to merge the Merge-related pages
<raphink> good :)
<raphink> and i'll try to package the package-related then
<Kyral> I should expand the PBuilder page
<raphink> Kyral: you mean PbuilderHowTo?
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> Yah I think..
<Kyral> in the Wiki right?
<raphink> ok
<raphink> maybe it could be nice to make a link to the chroot page
<raphink> too
<raphink> it's kinda linked
<Kyral> I was gonna put down something on Multiple PBuilders
<raphink> oh nice :)
<Kyral> Granted everyone has thier own methods
<raphink> of course :)
<Kyral> hey dholbach
(slomo/#ubuntu-motu) hi ajmitch :)
(ajmitch/#ubuntu-motu) ah, I didn't spot that you'd had other source in there
(slomo/#ubuntu-motu) StevenK: ping?
(ajmitch/#ubuntu-motu) hello slomo
(ajmitch/#ubuntu-motu) slomo: bugging for sponsorship again?
(GregorR-L/#ubuntu-motu) Like me 8-D
<slomo> ajmitch: yes... but this time not you ;) well, if you want to sponsor something ok... but i think you've already done more than enough for me in the last days... better care for everything else on your todo list :)
<ajmitch> :P
* ajmitch should go back to bed then
<GregorR-L> lol
<lucas> ajmitch: could you please review bug 1299 ?
<kjcole> ajmitch, may I have the next dance? ;-)
<slomo> ajmitch: you mean your todo list is empty? ;P
<lucas> I don't know what to do about it
<GregorR-L> Hahahahahah, ajmitch is popular, eh.
<kjcole> ajmitch, Seriously, I was wondering if your motu-school class exists as anything other than an IRC log?  If not, I'm converting it...
<ajmitch> kjcole: I *was* going to write it up in something more coherent than an irc brain dump :)
<ajmitch> lucas: um, let me wake up first :)
<kjcole> ajmitch, I started to do it as HTML, then thought, "No, perhaps wiki" and then "Perhaps it's already done..."
<ajmitch> it doesn't read so well as a straight irc log
<ajmitch> slomo: my todo list is shrinking, certainly
<kjcole> ajmitch, Yeah.  I was interested in the class, but didn't want to take it at IRC speed.  I've actually done a lot of converting already (to both HTML and wiki) but haven't posted it anywhere.
<ajmitch> ok, great
<kjcole> ajmitch, I've stripped out all the timestamps, and moved your nick appears once at the top of each section you authored rather than on every line.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I think it'll need a little more work than that
<kjcole> ajmitch, it's also broken up (or joined) into what seemed like logical paragraphs.
<ajmitch> it's not like I was actually coherent at 6AM when I did it ;)
<kjcole> ajmitch, Definitely needs more work than what I've done to it... which is why I got to thinking wiki instead of HTML, as it would be easier for others to mess up
<kjcole> s/mess up/edit/  ;-)
<ajmitch> please, it would be good to have on the wiki
<kjcole> ajmitch, will do.  You should see it out there shortly...
<lucas> are multiverse packages managed by MOTUs too ?
<Amaranth> yeah
<nalioth> what is the exact name of the motu classroom channel?
<ajmitch> #ubuntu-motu-school
<ajmitch> not that it gets used
<nalioth> well which one is better for struggling packager questions?
<Amaranth> here
<nalioth> i'm running debuild and getting this error dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 13 line with unknown format (not field-colon-value)
<ajmitch> nalioth: as it says
<ajmitch> debian/control is broken :)
<nalioth> i've asked other devs what the proper syntax is, and have used the same syntax that comes with it by default
<raphink> with a not field-colon-value error :)
<nalioth> package, package2, package3
<ajmitch> nalioth: put debian/control on pastebin
<raphink> yes
<raphink> ;)
<nalioth> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6547
* nalioth fervently wishes for a 'Debian packaging for dummies'
<ajmitch> nalioth: long description must be intended by a single space for each line
<jouni__m> miten se IR anturi kiinnitetn koneeseen?
<raphink> yep that's the mistake :)
<jouni__m> sorry wrong channel
<raphink> jouni__m: no finnish here please
<nalioth> ajmitch: indented?
<ajmitch> nalioth: and drop the <> :)
<raphink> nalioth: no, indented
<raphink> preceded from a space
<ajmitch> nalioth: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6548
<raphink> s/from/by/
<ajmitch> yes, indented
<nalioth> ok thank you.
<ajmitch> read what I mean, not what I say ;P
<nalioth> ajmitch: yes, i'll try to tune my ESP in more accurately, :P
<ajmitch> does it work now?
<nalioth> it started out and got further than before
<nalioth> ok it failed at the key signing part
<nalioth> i will ask Uncle Google about that
<nalioth> the howto i read said it would ask me (or it inferred that)
<kjcole> ajmitch, any good idea where to put my first draft? I'm thinking maybe a MotuSchool/ tree, but then a page name that is chronological in nature... (I think you'll like it...)
<ajmitch> nalioth: debian/changelog has an entry from you, right?
<ajmitch> with your email address in it?
<nalioth> ajmitch: yes it has that
<ajmitch> nalioth: pastebin ;)
<ajmitch> you have a gpg key with that name/email as uid?
<lucas> ajmitch: can you ask elmo to sync flashplugin-nonfree, overriding all ubuntu changes ? it is LP bug 6395
<nalioth> so you can see how whacked i am, i'm following this http://women.alioth.debian.org/wiki/index.php/English/PackagingTutorial
<nalioth> ajmitch: no. dammit.
* nalioth was using his spiffy @ubuntu.com address   :(
<ajmitch> nalioth: that will cause some issues
<ajmitch> nalioth: just debuild -k<KEYID>
<ajmitch> or dpkg-buildpackage if that takes your fancy
<nalioth> i've changed the line in my .bashrc to export my email that matches my gpg key
<nalioth> and yes i've sourced it
<ajmitch> then you'd still need to tell debuild to use the right key
<ajmitch> since it'll want to use the address in debian/changelog
<nalioth> <sigh>
<nalioth> one of these weeks i'll get this
<ajmitch> it's really not hard :)
<nalioth> ajmitch: once or twice through, no it's not. (practice makes perfect, lol)
<nalioth> wow it worked (or it finished, anyway)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> good, we need more KDE packagers and devs :)
<ajmitch> lucas: current debian flashplayer-nonfree seems to have some serious issues
<ajmitch> (according to bugreports)
<nalioth> well i'll be damned, my first package.
<ajmitch> well done
<nalioth> probably rough as a dried out corn cob, but it installs and runs
<ajmitch> submit it for review & we can rip it apart
<nalioth> i haven't lintian'd it yet
<lucas> ajmitch: didn't check the bug reports, looking at them now
<nalioth> ok lintian told me where to go, let me go polish
<raphink> :)
<nalioth> where do i go to find out what pkgs are being worked on or considered?
<lucas> ajmitch: ok, let's wait for a while and we'll see
<raphink> nalioth: REVU for example
<Lathiat> tseng: mmm, i've been meaning to look at that
<ajmitch> morning Lathiat
<ajmitch> up early, or up late?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-01-01
<superm1> crimsun, do you have a few moments to chat about those things i was doing in ubuntu-mythtv-frontend?
<crimsun> superm1, which things?
<superm1> well the package is a new package i was going to introduce - and it is a metapackage which should handle some configuration stuff too
<superm1> particularly a gdm autologin, and a custom openbox menu
<superm1> so i wasn't sure if what i did with it to make it work was kosher
<superm1> i made two conf files in /etc/mythtv, diverted the originals /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom to /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom-original and the same sort of thing for openbox conf.  i then made a symlink from /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom to the conf file in /etc/mythtv
<superm1> so if ubuntu-mythtv-frontend is uninstalled, symlink goes away
<superm1> and diversion is reversed
<superm1> the idea is supposed to be, you install ubuntu command line system, install the package - and restart and your up and running
<crimsun> xubuntu-default-settings does something similar
<crimsun> that seems fine
<superm1> alright very good then
<superm1> i'll look at xubuntu-default-settings and compare whats done there for other ideas too
<superm1> oh it does it a bit cleaner using update-alternatives
<superm1> rather than manual symlinks
<crimsun> right
<superm1> is there any other advantage other than it looking cleaner to use update-alternatives for this?
<crimsun> well, by using the alternatives system, you get to use what Debian provides
<crimsun> so it's not just cosmetic
<superm1> what do you mean by what "Debian provides", you mean as in the ability to easily switch between the two?
<crimsun> using update-alternatives, yes
<superm1> ah i see
<superm1> i'll have to experiment a little with it then.  i'll switch it over to that then
<superm1> elsewise, was there anything else sticking out about the packaging that would need some work still?
<crimsun> well, last I checked out, the upstream changelog entries for mythtv and mythplugins were still missing
<superm1> you mean upstream as in mythtv upstream, not debian-multimedia upstream?
<crimsun> the latter
<crimsun> all the entries by Christian
<superm1> i've updated to make sure i have all of christian's entries
<superm1> what revision were you at for each
<crimsun> ok, I can checkout shortly
<superm1> okay
<TheMuso> Happy new year for those in the UK.
<crimsun> and to you.
<TheMuso> crimsun: I'm in Australia. :) Just thought I'd make those behind us in time welcome. :)
<TheMuso> How long until midnight for you crimsun?
<crimsun> 4h 53m
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> Happy New Years (GMT)
<joejaxx> -32 minutes lol
<crimsun> yeah, a bit tardy there ;)
<joejaxx> ;)
<crimsun> like, an hour and 37 minutes ;)
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> this is weird
<joejaxx> i created a initrd for this kernel
<joejaxx> and it hangs on trying to mount the root filesystem
<joejaxx> let me reboot this
<LaserJock> hi people
<crimsun> 'lo.
<LaserJock> crimsun!
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<freeflying|away> hi LaserJock crimsun 
<crimsun> not bad, merging, and you?
<crimsun> hi freeflying|notaway
<LaserJock> I'm leaving for home tomorrow morning
<crimsun> MT?
<joejaxx> Hello LaserJock ! :)
<LaserJock> the connection here at my parents is about 26k so I haven't been on much
<LaserJock> crimsun: from MT back to NV
<crimsun> ah, NV.
<crimsun> yeah, understandable RE: 26kbps
<LaserJock> joejaxx: hi, how are you doing?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am doing well
<LaserJock> how are the fluxbuntu packages going?
<joejaxx> quite interesting
<joejaxx> i am going to have to rebuild half of the ubuntu support packages
<LaserJock> why?
<joejaxx> they are pulling applications
<joejaxx> for instances
<joejaxx> instance*
<LaserJock> what do you mean by dupport packages?
<joejaxx> language-support-en
<LaserJock> *support
<LaserJock> ah
<joejaxx> pulls openoffice.org-writer
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> I wonder if it could be made more modular or something
<joejaxx> i wonder why it is that way though
<joejaxx> debian has language support application specific ie firefox-locale-en
<LaserJock> well, like many things in Ubuntu, trying to pull things together into a supportable set
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> at least that's what I would guess
<LaserJock> why make more packages if you know what packages you need support for
<joejaxx> well becuase it is part of the fluxbuntu live seed
<crimsun> I don't see why that would require rebuilding half of support packages, though
<crimsun> it'd be easier to just Provide: whatever
<crimsun> not technically correct, but it's much more straightforward
<joejaxx> well because then it whould be grouped
<joejaxx> just like it is now
<crimsun> right, but the smaller the deviation, the easier it'll be to maintain
<crimsun> err, yeah.
<TheMuso> Ouch
<crimsun> ja
<crimsun> though I suppose it's a ripe time to split/perform maint
<TheMuso> Yeah
<LaserJock> crimsun: why do you think that? :-)
<TheMuso> I have always been on the bad end of netsplits lately.
<crimsun> vroom.
<LaserJock> I think I've only been on the bad end once
<TheMuso> i.e ended up with only one/two other people in the channel after the split.
<joejaxx> yay everyone is back
<LaserJock> weither we want them or not ;-)
<thecore> LaserJock: eh
<thecore> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi thecore
<LaserJock> hmm, seems like we could use a Merge Day
<crimsun> pretty much what I'm doing atm
<LaserJock> well, we need more then "crimson rules Universe" Days ;-)
<crimsun> cool, need to meet this crimson
<LaserJock> that's not fair to you
<LaserJock> bah
<joejaxx> LOL
<joejaxx> how did the amount of merges increase?
<crimsun> MoM ran again, I suspect
<joejaxx> oh i thought it runs once and then all the merges are checked
<joejaxx> manually*
<joejaxx> i did not know it runs more than once
<LaserJock> anybody know if it's relatively easy to get the importance of a Debian bug?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: when it's active and working I think MoM runs every 6-24 hrs
<joejaxx> "alert!  /dev/sda1 does not exist. dropping to a shell!" << that must not be good
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok
<crimsun> I'm not terribly familiar w/ the internals, but one should be able to grep for severity in the bug report
<crimsun> I suspect there's a much more elegant manner
<LaserJock> I was thinking that what we really need is a list of bugs of a certain severity that have been closed in Debian since the Ubuntu version
<LaserJock> and on a per/package basis
<crimsun> hmm.
<joejaxx> how whould one compile such a list?
<LaserJock> we need to easily see what syncs are worthwile
<LaserJock> or merges for that matter
<crimsun> inspecting the appropriate source packages' BTS entries
<LaserJock> there is also an email sent when a bug is closed
<crimsun> they're grouped by severity in BTS output; that may be one approach
<crimsun> you probably want to poke buxy for ideas, LaserJock 
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> I've just been thinking lately that prioritization is one of the things we are lacking quite a bit
<crimsun> yeah, the popcon approach is a bit lacking currently
<LaserJock> if we can't do *everything* we at least need to be able to know what's more important
<joejaxx> so the process whould be 
<crimsun> I've been doing it manually (trawling BTS for RC bugs in the packages I touch)
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, we just should try to automate that
<joejaxx> 1. get a merge 2. look for a critical bug that has been closed 3. set to a high priority for merging?
<LaserJock> well, I would like to see something like a list of all outdated packages in Ubuntu that have RC bugs fixed in Debian
<LaserJock> and the same thing for lower severities too
<LaserJock> not just for merges
<LaserJock> but for just a general idea of where we are with respect to Debian
<crimsun> check for a higher Debian source package version, inspect BTS, retrieve resolved RC bugs that fit the version constraints between Ubuntu and Debian, repeat, sort list
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I wonder how big the the Debian BTS is to download
<LaserJock> if one had a local cache of it creating the list could be quite quick
<crimsun> well, you wouldn't need everything from BTS
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> but it might be more efficent to cache it
<crimsun> well, here's where PTS will help
<crimsun> it already provides links to RC bugs
<crimsun> granted, those are the -open- ones
<LaserJock> hmm, that would be good too
<LaserJock> darn it, I keep thinking of all kinds of info that would be useful
<LaserJock> and it'd be nice if LP could handle all this
<LaserJock> I'll just have to sign the NDA and dive in ;-) j/k
<crimsun> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=src&data=SOURCEPACKAGENAME&archive=no&pend-exc=pending-fixed&pend-exc=fixed&pend-exc=done&sev-inc=critical&sev-inc=grave&sev-inc=serious
<LaserJock> hmm, well I'll have to think about this
<LaserJock> cbx33 offered to help writing some MOTU scripts
<LaserJock> anyway, I'm off again
<LaserJock> cya guys
<LaserJock> and gals
<joejaxx> Goodnight LaserJock 
<crimsun> 'night
<joejaxx> crimsun: i am trying to do another merge :)
<crimsun> great
<Q-FUNK> http://rerun.lefant.net/checklib/log.planner_0.14-10.html
<Q-FUNK> can anyone make sense of this?
<joejaxx> crimsun: if there is a conflict does MoM normally not state what conflicts?
<joejaxx> for example
<joejaxx> for opencv it has a conflict section in the report
<crimsun> joejaxx, the files contain diff markers
<crimsun> back after NY's
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> he /win 25
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> anyone else here?
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> i am probably the only one still on the computer
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> Oh crap
<somerville32> We all agreed we were going to ignore joejaxx, right?
<somerville32> gah!
* somerville32 is a failure.
<joejaxx> LOL
<joejaxx> of course all the irc clients come with /ignore joejaxx by default :P
<joejaxx> somerville32: what are you still doing on irc on new years?
* somerville32 is a geek.
<somerville32> And has no life to boot
<somerville32> :D
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> somerville32: i am trying to figure out why "/dev/sda1 does not exist" when i try to boot with this new kernel
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> it is not like i forgot to enable scsi disk support in the kernel
<somerville32> Doesn't exist for me either
<joejaxx> somerville32: you probably do not have scsi discs :P
<somerville32> sda1 has always been my USB disk for me
<joejaxx> yeah usbdrives come up as sda1 on my ide based computers as well
<somerville32> Welp, time for sleep! :D
<joejaxx> oh ok
<somerville32> @now atlantic
<Ubugtu> Current time in Canada/Atlantic: January 01 2007, 00:42:00
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> Good Night somerville32 
<somerville32> Good Night my friend
<somerville32> halt: Need to be root
<somerville32> Err..
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> Happy New Years EST
<cypher1> joejaxx, Happy New Year to you too !
<joejaxx> cypher1: :D
<Toadstool> happy new year!
* enyc meepmeeps
<june> hey anyone know where i can get the falcon repository builder so that i can install it on a webserver which i don't have root privileges to?  Is it even possible?  I have a folder to which i have read write and execute access though
<crimsun> june, you can pull it from Seveas's bzr.
<crimsun> alternately, a number of sites mirror the deb
<crimsun> note that not having root privileges makes installing the deb troublesome at best
<june> yeah, and all i could find was a deb
<crimsun> the source is available in his bzr.
<june> no tarball? oh well, i guess i'll do it tomorow
<june> i'm not on my computer right now, can't install bzr
<june> heh, my mediawiki installation is going like crap too
<Seveas> june, you can also grab the orig.tar.gz which is basicaly the upstream tarball
<june> that might work better, actually, while you're hear seveas, you don't host wolfenstein: enemy territory or true combat: elite do you?
<june> here even*
<Seveas> no I don't
<Seveas> I'm not really a gamer
<june> alright, the whole reason why i was after falcon was because i thought it might be worthwhile to host all of the games that arent in universerse (and those two will never be cause of the whole thing about being binary only)
<june> plus games like cube, nexuiz and a few others, maybe some game demos as well, i would figure people would like to have a repository for those
<crimsun> eh? that's not entirely correct; they could be in multiverse if they were wrapped or used a script to download.
<crimsun> it's the license (redistributability, among others) that ultimately matters
<june> crimsun: huh, i suppose i've been mistaken then, what do you mean about redistributability?
<crimsun> meaning that Canonical must have permission to host the binaries on its mirrors
<cypher1> arghh, when will open office be equivalent to MS office ?
<june> huh... is that because they're a commercial entity? or does ANYONE require that permission?
* cypher1 fed up of booting to windows for editing documents
<crimsun> june, anyone who attempts to mirror it should have explicit permission from id or whomever
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:cypher1] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
<cypher1> :)
<crimsun> ademan_kitchen_c, the only exception is if the EULA for, say, rtcw states explicitly that free redistribution is allowed
<cypher1> crimsun, hope thats ok.. i removed "the REVU DAY" part
<crimsun> cypher1, sure
<ademan_kitchen_c> ah ok, and what about strictly GPL programs?
<crimsun> ademan, well, strictly GPL programs should have no problem going into universe.
<ademan_kitchen_c> crimsun: true
<cypher1> !seen cypher
<ubotu> I last saw Cypher (i=DarkLinu@82.114.171.34) 2h 59m 8s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<ademan_kitchen_c> maybe i shouldn't bother making my own repos then
<ademan_kitchen_c> ah my mediawiki got close to finishing for once
<ademan_kitchen_c> but yeah, maybe i should just submit a few of these to universe... time to try and package again... thank God REVU won't allow any crap i package past them :-)
<crimsun> it would be better to try to get them into universe, yes.
<ademan_kitchen_c> or rather, REVU would help me fix any crap i would inevitably break
<cypher1> crimsun, are you working on the merge of pycaml ?
<crimsun> no, I don't believe it's assigned to me
<crimsun> (is it?)
<crimsun> oh, it is.
<cypher1> crimsun, :) are you planning to work on it ?
<cypher1> cypher1, or else i can try :)
<crimsun> no, I'm not. Fujitsu has already filed a sync request for it (#77038).
<crimsun> bug 77038
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77038 in pycaml "Please sync pycaml (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/77038
<Fujitsu> Did I?
* Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> So I did.
<cypher1> crimsun, ok .. i will search for another one then :)
<Fujitsu> We have to manually request all syncs these days, don't we?
<cypher1> crimsun, i have now selected to merge libflash, and did a search on bugs but did not see any sync or merge requests.. hope that is enough for me to proceed to work on it..
<crimsun> Fujitsu, not sure if autosync has been turned off
<crimsun> cypher1, sure
<Fujitsu> Well, judging by the graphs on merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html, it sure looks like it.
<cypher1> crimsun, thanks
* Fujitsu heads off to bed.
<cypher1> Fujitsu, can it be because of just one to verify that the debian change resolves the ubuntu change, that the autosync is turned off ?
<Fujitsu> Pardon?
<cypher1> Fujitsu, i thought by autosync, the packages that does not have a conflict is synced automatically right ?
<Fujitsu> The packages that have no changes, correct.
<cypher1> Fujitsu, sorry is that packages have no changes or packages having no conflicts ?
<Fujitsu> Packages having no changes whatsoever.
<cypher1> ok
<Fujitsu> Anyhow, I'm off to bed!
<Fujitsu> 'night all.
<crimsun> 'night
<highvoltage> happy new year cbx33 
<cbx33> happy new year highvoltage 
<cbx33> how are you
<highvoltage> feeling good
<highvoltage> and you?
<cbx33> yeh good
<neutrinomass> python-musicbrainz2 depends on libdiscid0 which is in unstable but not in feisty - should I request a sync ?
<cypher1> geser, hi happy new year!
<geser> hi cypher1, you too a happy new year!
<cypher1> is there any equivalent of cyberlink powerdvd of windows in ubuntu ?
<cypher1> sorry i guess wrong channel
<davromaniak> if any MOTU sees this line, can he take few seconds to review encadre-image and ccd2iso, Thanks
<bddebian> Happy New Year!
<Lutin> thx. happy new year too bddebian
<geser> Happy New Year bddebian 
<bddebian> Thx geser, you too
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> how was your new years?
<bddebian> Fine thanks. Yours?
<joejaxx> that is good to hear
<joejaxx> mine was ok
<xerxas> Happy new year all ! 
<somerville32> :] 
<joejaxx> it has been quite quiet today
<somerville32> Indeed
<Adri2000> StevenK: here?
<StevenK> For some values of 'here'.
<Adri2000> StevenK: have you read my /msg?
<StevenK> I saw it, it depends on what, and if you know Debian procedures.
<Adri2000> StevenK: the two packages are djplay and libdjconsole (djplay depends on it), same active upstream with whom I have good relationship
<Adri2000> do I know Debian procedures... I don't know if I know :) depends on what you mean
<lophylap> superm1: ping
<neutrinomass> geser: Thanks for the uploads !
#ubuntu-motu 2007-01-02
<lophyte> superm1: you around?
<superm1> lophyte, i'm here
<superm1> lophyte, just got back from new years celebrations
<lophyte> superm1: hehe, nice.. how was your holidays/
<superm1> very good 
<superm1> and you?
<lophyte> pretty good
<superm1> so whats up?
<lophyte> trying to set up a myth box, finally
<superm1> okay come in #ubuntu-mythtv 
<superm1> we'll chat there
<lophyte> oh, didn't know there *was* a channel for that..
<lukaswayne9> Hello all!  I've just uploaded a new version of my application, GFCEU, to the revu.  It sports some new features and critical bug fixes, and I really hope to see it get into fiesty!  If you have the chance, please review it!  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3930
<crimsun> you'll have better luck later in the week, I suspect
<crimsun> lukaswayne9, err, is there no use of the new Python policy?
<lukaswayne9> Alright
<lukaswayne9> new?  Newer since edgy?
<crimsun> lukaswayne9, are you using python-support or python-central?
<lukaswayne9> Oh damn, I built this on edgy :-\  I've been out of the building scene for a while...
<crimsun> it should only be a very quick change
<lukaswayne9> What change?
<crimsun> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPythonFAQ
<lukaswayne9> After reading the FAQ, I'm still not clear on what needs to be changed
<crimsun> well, are you going to use pysupport or pycentral?
<crimsun> (note you're not build-depending on one)
<lukaswayne9> pysupport i suppose
<crimsun> well, you have to do it explicitly (i.e., add it), because neither is implicit
<lukaswayne9> Alright.  WIll I still need to include python-dev?
<crimsun> you'll want to change that to python-all-dev
<lukaswayne9> And with the depends... I should change ${python:Depends} to python, python-support   ?
<crimsun> no, that remains
<lukaswayne9> So where does python-support come into play? Just add it to the depends list?
<crimsun> you'd b-d on it
<lukaswayne9> okay
<lukaswayne9> alright, uploaded again
<lukaswayne9> thanks a lot
<crimsun> make sure you added the dh_pysupport invocation prior to dh_python in debian/rules
<crimsun> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ap-packaging_tools.html#s-pysupport
<StevenK> Adri2000: Just so you can stop bothering me, please look at Debian Mentors which do this sort of thing.
<lukaswayne9> crimsun: okay, reuploaded
<crimsun> lukaswayne9, in the future, please be careful with debian/changelog
<crimsun> the two latest entries don't have update timestamps
<crimsun> updated, even
<crimsun> lukaswayne9, uploaded.
<crimsun> rexbron, some misspellings in debian/changelog
<rexbron> uug
<rexbron> im owned 
<rexbron> let me re-read it, then kick myself
<lukaswayne9> crimsun: alright! thank you
<rexbron> crimsun: fixed to and relevent, any others?
<crimsun> rexbron, the very first bit is awkward: "Removed rule to related to config.guess"
<rexbron> crimsun: question, should I just remove all references to that rule, or rephrase
<lifeless> rexbron: more detail will make it less awkward
<rexbron> ok
<lifeless> rexbron: i.e. 'stop deleting config.guess inappropriately'
<lifeless> or whatever
<rexbron> ok
<rexbron> crimsun, lifeless: anything else before I upload?
<crimsun> now's as good as any
<rexbron> umm, I am uploading it but forgot to add in the changelog, that I fixed typos (I did not think it warrented it, was I wrong?)
<crimsun> err, well, that was the point of the upload ;)
<rexbron> so it is going to show up as ubuntu4
<crimsun> that's fine
<rexbron> ok
<crimsun> when it's finally uploaded to Ubuntu it'll be -0ubuntu1
<rexbron> i see
* Kamping_Kaiser doesnt get the naming stuff
<crimsun> what specifically about the naming scheme?
<rexbron> Kamping_Kaiser: <program>_<upstream version>-<debian version>ubuntu<ubuntu version>
<Kamping_Kaiser> the bit where ubuntu version gets attached
<rexbron> baisically, if a ubuntu person makes a change to make it work with ubuntu (or any change for that matter) we up our own version nimber
<rexbron> *number
<Kamping_Kaiser>  -0ubuntu1 <is that debian version 0, ubuntu version 1? or are both numbers ubuntu version?
<rexbron> right on the first case
<Kamping_Kaiser> its suddenly much clearer :\
<crimsun> it means that packaging version is not in Debian, but yes, the Ubuntu packaging version is 1
<Kamping_Kaiser> what if debian now package it, does ubuntu have the option to keep its version (0ubuntux), or to sync in debians? (1ubuntux)
<rexbron> a sync is when debian changes match ubuntu chagnes
<rexbron> otherwise it is a merge
<crimsun> Kamping_Kaiser, in that case we have a skew, and a decision has to be made whether to "fakesync" (use Debian's packaging infrastructure) or to continue with Ubuntu's
<lifeless> rexbron: sometimes we talk all the changes, but still cannot sync
<lifeless> because having changed the version number, dependencies in other packages also changed.
<lifeless> s/talk/take/
<rexbron> ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> crimsun, i think i see :)
<acacs> opa
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
<poningru> zomg
<poningru> can someone bring in alpine and alpine-pico from debian??
<Lathiat> alpine eh
* Amaranth needs to do a vala package
<Lathiat> vala?
<Amaranth> it's a new programming language
<Amaranth> well, sort of
<Amaranth> it's like pyrex
<Amaranth> http://vala.paldo.org/
<crimsun> we need a "verify these $release-proposed SRU" day
* imbrandon_ agrees
* Fujitsu also agrees.
* Fujitsu attacks this erlang build.
<jenda> Hello.
<highvoltage> hello jenda 
<fowlduck> hello
* jenda has a question, just waiting for someone to pastebin somethnig.
<jenda> The/a dev of KDEnlive and MLT has created deb packages, and the question got to me, but I am clueless, as usual...
<jenda> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/216/
<jenda> there
<crimsun> it's unclear what the question(s) is(are).
<crimsun> is he looking for Web hosting? Source package review? Both?
<jenda> I'm not sure really...
<fowlduck> I don't think he knows the process to get them included
<jenda> crimsun: more like - what do you do if you want to make your deb package available to Ubuntu users.
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New and the link(s) in the topic.
<crimsun> the last link in the topic is most immediately relevant
<jenda> crimsun, fowlduck: ok, thanks.
<crimsun> np
<fowlduck> yeah, glad to help (although crimsun did all the heavy lifting, as usual)
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me who review packages uploaded to REVU?
<crimsun> slytherin, anyone can
<crimsun> however, only members of ubuntu-dev have advocate votes that matter
<crimsun> currently two advocate (positive) votes are required to upload a new source package to the current development version
<slytherin> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> Amaranth, let me know if your alsa issue is still relevant in 2.6.20-3.4 (now available)
<gnomefreak> not yet here crimsun we just got the libc6-dev for 2.6.20-3
<gnomefreak> linux-libc-dev i mean
<crimsun> it's definitely available from archive.uc
<crimsun> I just rebooted into 2.6.20-3-lowlatency
<gnomefreak> i guess im waiting for the meta than -generic hasnt hit archive.ubuntu.com 
<gnomefreak> in updates atleast
<gnomefreak> ah i see it in repos just no restricted-modules for it yet (assuming thats one reason it hasnt been sent to updates yet
<finalbeta> I clicked the first link in the topic expecting to find how to actually make a .deb. I'm 6 links further and still not the wiser.
<battlesquid> i'd like to recommend gruler be added to a ubuntu repository, because kruler doesn't work well (with borders!) in gnome
<crimsun> you missed the Ubuntu Packaging Guide completely.
<crimsun> ^ finalbeta 
<finalbeta> I see, the wiki has some issues. Now that I press back, I did see the kubuntu packaging guide.
<finalbeta> Ok, cewl, thnx. Will try this.
<crimsun> UPG is available from help.ubuntu.com, or if you're using GNOME, System> Help> System Documentation> Contributing to Ubuntu> Maintaining Ubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> libavahi-common3 0.6.10-0ubuntu3.3 <- how can you have .3 of an upload? does that just mean "made a slight change"?
<geser> it's the 3rd update to a "stable" package
<crimsun> Kamping_Kaiser, the versioning scheme is different for updates, as geser mentioned
<Kamping_Kaiser> so you will get x.x in -updates and -security?
<crimsun> generally, yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks both
<crimsun> and x.x~proposed1 to $release-proposed
<crimsun> and possibly x.x~$release# for backports
<crimsun> there is method to the madness
<Kamping_Kaiser> this gets complex fairly fast. at least its organised madness
<Kamping_Kaiser> does anyone here use firefox? can you look at the man page in OPTIONS? i think its missing an F... i just want to know its not just my setup.
* Kamping_Kaiser muses. #u-bugs was probably a better place for that
<Fujitsu> Where in the OPTIONS section?
<Kamping_Kaiser> A summary of the options supported by irefox is included below.
<Fujitsu> Nope, your setup.
<Fujitsu> I get a nice bolded lowercase `firefox'
* Kamping_Kaiser gives firefox a beady look
<Kamping_Kaiser> might be a fixed-after-dapper bug
<Lathiat> Kamping_Kaiser: security releases 
<Kamping_Kaiser> Lathiat, cheers. wonder why i havent picked it up :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> in a debian/rules file, if i want to echo <some text "somemoretext ;"> into another file, do i need to escape all the special charactesr? <>;"
<Adri2000> slomo: two things about liferea on feisty: I don't know what liferea-bin is supposed to do, do you? anyway it segfaults here. also, since I'm on feisty, my liferea is in english instead of french, I tried whith other locales and it doesn't seem to work either
<geser> slomo: hello, can I merge prj2make-sharp?
<MehdiHassanpour> Hi Motu developers
<MehdiHassanpour> I've asked for ttf-freefarsi package to be add in Feisty universe
<MehdiHassanpour> It's been added to Debian's unstable
<Hobbsee> hey PriceChild 
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: !!!!!! :D
<PriceChild> how're you?
<Hobbsee> good
<Hobbsee> MehdiHassanpour: doing it
<MehdiHassanpour> Hobbsee: Thanks :-)
<PriceChild> gd gd
* PriceChild disappears
<Kamping_Kaiser> i dont see this covered in ubuntus packaging guide (but perhaps i just didnt read the right bit). i'm trying to make a derived package from firefox (just changing a few settings), and i get this error. i renamed the source dir, if thats useful info:
<Kamping_Kaiser> dpkg-source: warning: source directory `./firefox-1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.8karl0' is not <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion> `firefox-1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.8'
<Kamping_Kaiser> dpkg-source: warning: .orig directory name firefox-1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.8karl0.orig is not <package>-<upstreamversion> (wanted firefox-1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.8.orig)
<geser> the .orig.tar.gz has still the old directory name hence the warning
<Kamping_Kaiser> so i should rename the diff, dsc, orig.tar.gz and the source dir, not just source dir?
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: but you can ignore it, if it's a warning
<Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, i prefer not to ignore warnings, they always come back to haunt me :)
<geser> the diff and dsc get the new names automatically once you build a new source package
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks.
<geser> the old dir name is inside the orig.tar.gz (use tar tzf to see it)
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: heh.  you can ignore that one though
<geser> Kamping_Kaiser: if you really want to get rid of the warning, you have to unpack the orig.tar.gz, rename the dir and tar it up again
<Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> is that ok, with the 'dont mess with orig.tar.gz' rule?
<Jozo-> Kamping_Kaiser: Don't change upstream version, if there is no need to change it.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks for explaining this btw geser and folk
<xerxas> Hi ! 
<xerxas> Happy new year to all of you 
<slomo> geser: sure
<slomo> Adri2000: well... it should work ;)
<Adri2000> slomo: liferea-bin or locales? or both?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey mate :)
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Lutin> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Lutin
<Adri2000> slomo: there is no .mo files in the .deb
<Lutin> bddebian: do you have 5 min to help me with the allegrogl pkg, on revu ?
<slomo> Adri2000: it's in the language packs
<slomo> Adri2000: once they're updated again...
<Adri2000> ahhhh yes it's in main now
<Adri2000> okay :)
<slomo> ademan: and liferea-bin should work normally... well, does "liferea" work for you? ;)
<Adri2000> Adri2000* :p liferea works yes but liferea-bin segfaults
<slomo> Adri2000: probably mozilla-madness *shrug* ;)
<Lutin> bddebian: actually I don't konw what to do whith the lib .... lintian says it's a sharedlib, but i provides no .so.x.x, has no soversion ... would be great if you had a clue :)
<bddebian> Yeah, it would be :)
<Lutin> lol
<giskard> ciao
<bddebian> Heya giskard
<bddebian> Lutin: Actually, I believe the -dev package should have .so.X.X
<Lutin> bddebian: that means I'd have to patch the makefile to actually generate it ?
<bddebian> Give me a sec
<bddebian> What the heck is the objdump parameter to get the SONAME?
<geser> -p or -x
<bddebian> Hmm, I didn't know -x did SONAME.  Thx geser
<geser> -x includes -p
<bddebian> Ahh
* bddebian bows to geser 's greatness :)
<bddebian> Lutin: I wonder if that lib has issues.  I believe libs should have an SONAME
<Lutin> bddebian: what should I do then ?
<geser> Lutin: what gives "objdump -p libagl.so | grep SONAME"?
<Lutin> geser: give me 5 min, I have to build it on this pc :)
<bddebian> geser: Nothing
<Lutin> the point is, as it's intended to be a plugin to allegro, it's not build like a sharedlib i guess
<bddebian> Well it's building libagl.so
<Lutin> so, I should ask upstream to modify the autofoo stuff to provide soname and lib.so.x.x, (or do it myself) ?
<bddebian> Upstream would probably be preferred.  But I may be wrong about this.  I'm certainly no library expert..
<azeem> Lutin: if it's a plugin, does it get installed into /usr/lib/allegro or something?
<bddebian> Yes, /usr/lib/libagl.so
<azeem> so, no :)
<bddebian> So no, what?
<azeem> if it's a plugin, it has no business getting put into /usr/lib
<bddebian> Oh. heh sorry
<azeem> it should get put into a subdirectory where allegro can find it
<azeem> and plugins don't count as libraries, so no soname issues
<bddebian> Ah, OK, thx
<Lutin> azeem: ok
<Lutin> azeem: and still should be updated to have a soname and such ?
<bddebian> Lutin: So, just stick it in /usr/lib/allegro/libagl.so or so and make sure allegro can find it :-)
<Lutin> bddebian: ok
<bddebian> Lutin: No, not for a plug-in apparently
<Lutin> bddebian: some software rely on that plugin, such as the ta3d game, so I wonder if it's only a plugin
<azeem> Lutin: no, check out other allegro plugins for package naming conventions, if any
<azeem> something like allegro-plugin-ag or whatever would be more suiteable in this case I guess
<azeem> Lutin: how does ta3d rely on it?
<azeem> check whether objdump -x ta3d |grep NEEDED lists it
<Lutin> azeem: ok
<Lutin> azeem: if it does, what does that means ?
<azeem> Lutin: then it would mean libag1 is a true library and not a plugin
<stgraber> Is there any problem with REVU ?
<stgraber> my upload appears to be stuck in the FTP
<bddebian> Here is where the allegro arts plugin puts it:
<bddebian> usr/lib/allegro/4.2/alleg-artsdigi.so
<Lutin> bddebian: ok, thanks
<Lutin> azeem: currently building ta3d, I'll check the objdump thing asap
<Lutin> azeem:  NEEDED      libagl.so
<Lutin> seems that it's a true librairy
<bddebian> Ack
<Lutin> so I have to ask to upstream to provide the lib.so.x.x and a soname/soversion
<jorgp> is there a mplayer 1.0rc1+ planned for multiverse?
<Lutin> bddebian: did you see the liballegro4.2 source package ? all fixed by the debian maintainer. seems the upstream is not wanting to use libtool ^^
<bddebian> joy
<stgraber> Can anyone check why uploads got stuck on the FTP and doesn't appear on REVU ?
<bddebian> How do I best do docbook2man in a CDBS package?
<Lutin> bddebian: I don't understand what exactly means those linda warnings on kayali :/
<bddebian> Lutin: Me either
<Lutin> bddebian: lol
<Lutin> I can't get what's wrong with having a 775 chmod on a script
<Lutin> err. 755
<geser> it's missing a she-bang
<Toadstoo1> heya everybody
<Toadstoo1> happy new year
<bddebian> Heya Toadstoo1, to you also
<bddebian> geser: Hey, do you know how I can get a docbook to a manpage in a CDBS package?
<geser> bddebian: no
<geser> have you tried to use one of the several cdbs hooks?
<Toadstool> why the heck was my nick Toadstoo1? :p
<Toadstool> I hate nickserv ^^
<Adri2000> bddebian: can I "merge" msttcorefonts? ("" because it's really an easy merge :p, updated merge)
<bddebian> geser: Yeah, I found it, thanks
<bddebian> Adri2000: Go for it, thanks
<Adri2000> ok, I will need someone for uploading, and that's the bigger part of the job for this merge :P
<Adri2000> but first, pbuilding...
<Adri2000> -> http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/msttcorefonts_1.6ubuntu1.debdiff (from 1.6), I hope my changelog is ok...
<Lutin> does anyone know what that linda warning acutally means ?
<Lutin> W: kayali; Executable /usr/share/kayali/MaximaParserTokenTypes.txt with perms 0755 is not an ELF file or script. 
<Lutin> err. .py, not.txt
<bddebian> Lutin: It's telling you that you have executable "rights" on a non-script or ELF file
<Lutin> bddebian: ok
<Toadstool> Lutin: which in this particular case means that you should either change the rights on this file or add a shebang if it is supposed to be executed
<Lutin> Toadstool: hay !
<Toadstool> hi Lutin 
<Lutin> (thanks a lot) how are you ?
<Toadstool> good, how are you?
<Lutin> fine, thanks :)
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Sp4rKy> Toadstool: hi !
<Toadstool> heya Sp4rKy 
<Amaranth> alright, time to show my newbiness
<Amaranth> how do i do this revu thing? :)
<bddebian> Amaranth: Upload or reviewing?
<Amaranth> upload
<bddebian>  dput revu foo*.changes :-)
<Amaranth> starting from scratch, i've never used it in any form
<somerville32> kAmaranth: Watcha doin'?
<bddebian> Ahh
<Amaranth> somerville32: vala
<Amaranth> http://vala.pardo.org
<somerville32> Is it a programming language, kAmaranth?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> and stop that :P
<somerville32> What do you mean kAmaranth? :)
<geser> is it a kde programm?
* Amaranth smacks somerville32
<Amaranth> geser: nope
<somerville32> Should be
<Amaranth> more GNOME related, it's a programming language that leans on glib (specifically gobject) to convert a C#-like syntax into C then compile it
<somerville32> Interesting
<Amaranth> very
<Amaranth> ugh, pbuilder is so slow
<Amaranth> just realized i never updated it for feisty
<somerville32> Amaranth: I have a 333mhz
<Amaranth> oh, it's http://vala.paldo.org btw
<Amaranth> typos ftw
<bddebian> Do I have to do something special when I have an xml docbook file to create the manpage?
<Adri2000> bddebian: could you upload the msttcorefonts merge please? http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/msttcorefonts_1.6ubuntu1.debdiff
<Q-FUNK> has anybody heard anything about ubuntu abandoning the powerpc port?
<Adri2000> bddebian: docbook2man?
<bddebian> Aye, I'm using that.  Well docbook-to-man.  I'm not sure of the difference between docbook2man and docbook-to-man
<bddebian> But I get:
<bddebian> W: pegsolitaire; Manual page /usr/share/man/man1/pegsolitaire.1.gz failed to run through lexgrog.
<bddebian> How do I keep cdbs from installing files I don't want it to install?  Do I have add an install/package:: target and rm the files manually?
<Q-FUNK> bddebian: .la files?
<bddebian> Q-FUNK: ?/
<bddebian> Adri2000: Uploaded
<Adri2000> thanks
<bddebian> No, THANK YOU :)
<LaserJock> hi MOTU Land
<zul_> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi zul_ 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian!
<siretart> bddebian: didn't you apply for ubuntu-core-dev?
<siretart> bddebian: TB Meeting going on right now
<LaserJock> oh, it is?
<siretart> right now, yes
<hub> am I the only one unable to upgrade feisty pbuilder because of vim?
<hub> Setting up vim-tiny (7.0-164+1ubuntu1) ...
<hub> update-alternatives: unable to make /usr/share/man/ru.KOI8-R/man1/vi.1.gz.dpkg-tmp a symlink to /etc/alternatives/vi.ru.KOI8-R.1.gz: No such file or directory
<hub> dpkg: error processing vim-tiny (--configure):
<hub>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2
<hub> pbuilder update fails with that
<bddebian> siretart: A long time ago.  I gave up.  They don't want me :-)
<siretart> bddebian: eh!
<TheGods> howdy
<LaserJock> hi
<TheGods> hi
<TheGods> does anyone here know anything about cinelerra?
<Lutin> when I use this line in debian/rules, the build fails. does anyone see what's wrong ?
<LaserJock> TheGods: not much. it's currently being worked on by the Ubuntu Studio folks
<Lutin> for file in `find -name "*.py"`; do [ -n "`head -n 1 $file | grep #!`" ]  && chmod 755 $file; done
<TheGods> LaserJock, i am one of those folks ;)
<LaserJock> ah Toby
<TheGods> there's a problem with ffmpeg licencing that the cinelerra people include in their sources
<TheGods> indeed
<TheGods> i just wanted to find out the details such that i could post to their mailing list
<LaserJock> what's wrong with it?
<geser> Lutin: have you tested this line with dash or bash only?
<TheGods> LaserJock, i'm not sure - that's why i'm asking ;)
<LaserJock> TheGods: well, I'm not really sure what the question is though
<TheGods> oh of course!
<LaserJock> TheGods: siretart can tell you a lot about ffmpeg right now ;-)
<TheGods> ok
<TheGods> thanks
<TheGods> this is some of what i posted in #cinelerra: "Cinelerra uses a version of ffmpeg where free distribution is limited (perhaps only in the US, perhaps not). However, as a result, we cannot have the software in the Ubuntu repositories, which means we cannot include it in our release. This isn't what we'd like to be the case, and I would love to see this change."
<TheGods> that's what i've been told, at least
<siretart> TheGods: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionFFmpeg
<Lutin> geser: yes, seems to work with bash
<TheGods> siretart, thanks muchly
<geser> Lutin: test also with dash as dash is /bin/sh
<LaserJock> TheGods: so cinelerra ships it's own copy of ffmpeg?
<TheGods> yes
<LaserJock> and it's different then our ffmpeg?
<siretart> *sigh* - another one :/
<TheGods> that's what i hear. and although it's (l)gpl, i've heard it's not freely distributable in the usa
<siretart> the license is indeed not the problem
<TheGods> yes, indeed
<siretart> TheGods: does cinerella modify ffmpeg in any way?
<LaserJock> TheGods: I sure don't envy you guys. Multimedia is awful to work with
<TheGods> thanks :P
<TheGods> siretart, i'll have to ask
<Lutin> geser: ok with dash as well
<Lutin> oh no, weird
<Lutin> exit code is 1
<siretart> TheGods: if they don't please make the package build against the ubuntu ffmpeg package. this way, we share bugs and security issues
<TheGods> that's what i'm asking
<TheGods> apparently their build system is horrendous :(
<Lutin> geser: ok, I know why it fails
<Lutin> geser: because if the last file does not math the test condition, the last exit code is 1 and make the thing fail
<Lutin> I guess
<TheGods> siretart, fortunately: (from the svn log): "r949 | pmdumuid | 2006-10-29 00:54:57 +0200 (Sun, 29 Oct 2006) | 9 lines
<TheGods> Add configure option to allow for external ffmpeg linking."
<bddebian> Anyone know why this is happening on a CDBS package?
<bddebian> E: pegsolitaire: changelog-file-not-compressed ChangeLog
<bddebian> W: pegsolitaire: wrong-name-for-upstream-changelog usr/share/doc/pegsolitaire/ChangeLog
<_MMA_> LaserJock: The Cinelerra ffmpeg apparently is old, tweaked and stable. They dont want to mess with it (understandable) but it causes a problem for us to get into Universe.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: I see
<siretart> _MMA_: what definition of 'stable' do you use?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: happy New Year, by the way
<TheGods> siretart, it's their word
<_MMA_> To you as well Jordan.
<_MMA_> Yes. Having never used it myself I cant attest to its stability. Im going on their word.
<TheGods> as i said, they've added a configure option to allow building with the normal ffmpeg
<TheGods> i have been advised to ask on the mailing list, and will do so
<_MMA_> TheGods: We need to also talk with muzzol. He might have handled some of these things and we dont want to be redundant.
<TheGods> yes
<TheGods> no
<TheGods> i don't want to diverge too much from upstream if possible
<TheGods> <_>
<LaserJock> ah, why not? ;-)
<TheGods> cos then we'll have the burden of support
<siretart> TheGods: if that works, please at least try to use the external xine
<TheGods> you mean ffmpeg, but of source
<LaserJock> heh
<siretart> TheGods: I'm having the same problem with xine, upstream strongly recommends using the internal one, but we use an external one
<TheGods> *course
<siretart> of course, ffmpeg. my bad
<TheGods> siretart, i know you're grief :(
<TheGods> *your
* TheGods is obviously tired...
<TheGods> *are
<siretart> TheGods: yes, the situation is pretty unfortunate. espc if you try to work on it for months if not for years
<bddebian> WTF is this crap?  W: pegsolitaire: description-synopsis-might-not-be-phrased-properly
<TheGods> siretart, that sounds like hell :(
<siretart> TheGods: well, one very annoying fact is that the ffmpeg refuse to make 'proper' releases. this way, other projects using ffmpeg are forced to use some random svn snapshot
<siretart> TheMuso: the problem with that is that random snapshots tend to break the build without notice
<siretart> tsmithe: this means that they tend to include copies of ffmpeg, which makes them a support (both security and bug wise) nightmare
<stgraber> siretart: you are the REVU's ftp admin right ?
<siretart> stgraber: what's up?
<stgraber> siretart: things got stuck in it and not shown on revu
<siretart> compiz or pastebinit?
<stgraber> pastebinit
<stgraber> if you can remove everything I'll reupload
<siretart> stgraber: did you join the lp group?
<stgraber> yes, that's just a fix because it was rejected for inclusion in universe (missing COPYING file)
<LaserJock> stgraber: no need to put that on REVU I don't think
<LaserJock> stgraber: just send the fix the the loser MOTU that uploaded it ;-)
<LaserJock> *to the
<stgraber> LaserJock: well I did a little bit more changes than that single file (paste.ubuntu-nl.org now has some kind of javascript protection and I remove it for instance) + fixing two typos :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: well, whatever you want :p
<bddebian> siretart: Do you have a second to help my dumb arse?
<stgraber> LaserJock: what kind of fix do you need ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: a debdiff to the version I uploaded
<Lutin> bddebian: fixed kayali, if you want to have a look
<siretart> bddebian: what's up?
<somerville32> Is there anyone here that is subscribed to feisty-changes AND can mass fwd them to an address for me (for legit reasons, of course)?
<Toadstool> somerville32: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes.mbox/feisty-changes.mbox <-- the full raw archive in mbox format
<somerville32> Toadstool: Is there any way I can import it to gmail?
<somerville32> Or know of a program that could mass fwd for me?
<Toadstool> er... no idea
<tsmithe> somerville32, you looking to parse them for yo app?
<Toadstool> I don't use gmail
<somerville32> tsmithe: Yes.
<tsmithe> surely python has mbox support?
<Toadstool> sure
<tsmithe> there's this kind of thing (very quick google): http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-October/289414.html
<somerville32> I want to test normal operation though
<bddebian> Lutin: OK
<bddebian> siretart: Can I PM you?
<tsmithe> or somerville32 http://www.marklyon.org/gmail/
<siretart> bddebian: mmh, fair enough
<harrisony> hi there i am following the guide here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/OpenWeek-Packaging101 and am doing sudo pbuilder create but i just wanted to know why is it download I: Validating apt-utils
<harrisony> I: Retrieving aptitude
<harrisony> I: Validating aptitude
<harrisony> I: Retrieving base-files
<harrisony> I: Validating base-files
<harrisony> I: Retrieving base-passwd
<harrisony> I: Validating base-passwd
<harrisony> I: Retrieving bash
<harrisony> opps didnt mean to do that sorry
<lasindi> Hi all, I'm trying to create an Ubuntu package for a Python application I've recently written; I have no experience in packaging. I've been reading through this tutorial (http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/PackagingTutorial) I was directed to from the Ubuntu website, and when I ran dh_make, I chose CDBS as I have no binaries (because of Python). Is this the right choice (I get an error saying it can't find a .orig.tar.gz file)?
<Fujitsu> It needs to download the base system before it can install it!
<harrisony> Fujitsu oh..do you know how many packags it needs to download
<Fujitsu> Not exactly.
<LaserJock> lasindi: CDBS is ok, it is expecting to find the programs source in a tarball like <packagename>-<version>.orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> harrisony: a fair amount, it's creating a minimal Ubuntu install
<harrisony> LaserJock, ahhh hmm i guess ill have to wait a while thanks!
<LaserJock> harrisony: what kind of connection do you have?
<enyc> hrrm
<harrisony> LaserJock 64kb/s
<LaserJock> harrisony: yeah, it'll take a few minutes. It's alphabetical so you can get an idea of where you are anyway
<enyc> I wonder if I need to wait really patiently for a response in bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/77485 .... or if I need to mumble about this here and see if somebody here take notice  ;-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77485 in qpsmtpd "SRU request: edgy:qpsmtpd fix for bug #72602" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* LaserJock hears a mumble coming from somewhere
<bddebian> LaserJock: That was just my stomach ;-)
<LaserJock> oh
<lasindi> LaserJock: so should I be in the source directory when I do dh_make and also have the tarball in the parent directory?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> lasindi: what I do is take the tarball and unpack it. then I move it to <packagename>-<version> if it isn't already. then tar it up to a .orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> lasindi: just make sure that the .orig.tar.gz and the downloaded tarball are the same (md5sum)
<lasindi> LaserJock: okay, it's now complaining that I don't have a toplevel Makefile - this is because I'm using Python. What I was thinking is having the program's source install to /usr/share/programname and then writing a bashscript to go in /usr/bin that cds to /usr/share/programname and then runs the python program. Is that reasonable?
<LaserJock> is it a single .py file?
<enyc> LaserJock: ;-)
<lasindi> LaserJock: well, I have several source files, but I only need to call one .py file.
<lasindi> *well, "run" is a better word than "call" ;-)
<LaserJock> enyc: the debdiff certainly seems small and reasonable but I'm not exactly sure what it's fixing?
<LaserJock> lasindi: then put that one in /usr/bin/ and the rest in /usr/share/<packagename>/
<lasindi> LaserJock: wouldn't that mean I need to have sys.path.append('/usr/share/packagename') in the source code? (I've been trying to avoid path names in my source code to keep it platform-independent.)
<LaserJock> lasindi: well, you could use distutils
<lasindi> The reason I'm wondering about the bash script method is that Jokosher, another Python app, does this.
<LaserJock> although it might be a tad overkill
<enyc> LaserJock: fixes 72602 as per bug title ;-)
<enyc> LaserJock: "the impact of this bug"... described in 77485 anywaf
<LaserJock> lasindi: that way is certainly acceptable, but I think distutils is a bit better for general portability, IMO
<LaserJock> enyc: ah, yeah, I was looking at the "Closes: " bug, you should probably also put the SRU bug number in there too
<bddebian> Later gang
<enyc> LaserJock: well it is described in 72602
<lasindi> LaserJock: I'm looking through the website at the moment, but distutils looks like something that wouldn't handle dependency resolution, which is why I was looking at Debian packaging. Is this correct?
<LaserJock> lasindi: what I mean is distutils is a common way of handing installation for python apps
<stgraber> LaserJock: thx
#ubuntu-motu 2007-01-03
<zul> there should be the mel brooks collector editioin
<nixternal> zul: i would buy it in a heart beat
<Kamping_Kaiser> if a package (ie firefox) has only a orig.tar.gz and a diff.gz does that mean i can make any changes i need to the package, and they will get put in the diff? or do  i have to try and keep my changes in a certain area (like ./debian/)?
<lifeless> Kamping_Kaiser: it depends
<lifeless> Kamping_Kaiser: if the package is using a patch-based tool, then you should use that.
<lifeless> Kamping_Kaiser: if its not, then you should make the changes whereever they need to be made
<Kamping_Kaiser> cool. thats roughly what i thought. thanks lifeless 
<invalesco> hey. will someone please include the newest ntfs-3g driver http://www.ntfs-3g.org/releases.html in fesity. It fixes the heavy cpu load when writing big files on ntfs drives
<steko> hi, is there anyone from MOTUScience ?
<steko> I cannot seem to solve this annoying bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/r-base/+bug/48168
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48168 in r-base "unable to open X Input Method" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  
<steko> and I feel I'm the only one experiencing this
<bddebian> Heya gang
<harrisony> hi
<lasindi> Question about packaging a Python program: I'm been reading through Debian packaging tutorials and I can get past dh_make, but I don't know what to do at this point. I don't have any makefiles, and basically what I want is to put my program's source code in /usr/share/programname and have a shell script in /usr/bin cd into there and run one of the python scripts. Is there an easy way to do this?
<jikanter> lasindi: good question, I am not sure the answer, but my guess is it would be in the debian python policy
<lasindi> jikanter: Yes, I've been looking through that, but I still can't find anything in there that amounts to a tutorial on what I'm trying to. The information might be in there, but I think maybe I need to understand Debian packaging in general (which I don't).
<jikanter> me neither, I am working on it though....Did you read the ubuntu packaging manual yet? I found that one easier to get through
<jikanter> than the debian one I mean
<lasindi> Well, I followed this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources to some Debian packaging tutorials (linked at the bottom)
<lasindi> but they all seem to revolve around Makefiles (and thus presumable C/C++ programs)
<lasindi> *presumably
* jdong is sucking at wording documentation....
<jdong> what's a good word for "accelerating over time"
<lasindi> speeding up?
<jdong> i.e. the integral of acceleration wrt time
<lasindi> Isn't the integral of acceleration velocity?
<jdong> no
<jdong> that's the derivative
<lasindi> jikanter: I don't want anything fancy, which seems to be what the policy discusses; all I want to do is hardcode the location of the files, which I would think is an easy task, but doesn't appear to be easy using Debian's tools.
<Jozo-> lasindi: Why you want install shell wrapper to python script?
<jdong> like think of a fast-forward button
<jdong> one media player has it implemented as accelerating acceleration
<jdong> so it's a v=t^2 relationship
<chillywilly> anyone ever look at conary (the package manager for rpath linux - http://www.rpath.com) ?
<jdong> trying to describe that in documentation is not exactly simple :D
<lasindi> Jozo-: Basically because I want to keep all the modules in the same directory
<jikanter> lasindi: I think the point of the policy was not to be complex, but to create some sort of standard for everyone to follow
<jikanter> But I could be wrong, so anyone chime in if they know better
<lasindi> jikanter: yes, but unfortunately it's not working well (at least for me) as a tutorial
<lasindi> jdong: Which application is this?
* imbrandon_ yawns
<lasindi> Jozo-: do you have any ideas?
<crimsun> lasindi: follow the Debian Python policy.
<imbrandon_> heya crimsun
<bddebian> crimsun: !
<bddebian> chillywilly: Stop pushing your crack here ;-P
<imbrandon_> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<lasindi> crimsun: I would love to; I just have no idea how to do it. ;-)
<chillywilly> bddebian: sorry dude, but it's not my crack
<bddebian> :-)
<chillywilly> bddebian: just something cool I've been looking at...conary is a marriage between source control and package management...pretty cool stuff
<lasindi> crimsun: I've been reading the Python policy and even after reading it, I still don't understand it. Do you know where I can find a walkthrough of how to build a Python package?
<Jozo-> lasindi: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<jaldhar> what creates/uses /var/run/console?
<Lathiat> i think thats done when you login to a console
<Lathiat> probably by the PAM stuff
<jaldhar> Lathiat: yeah on RHAT its pam_console but I don't think we have that
<Lathiat> pam_foreground
<Lathiat> which is in common-session
<jaldhar> aha!
<lasindi> Jozo-: Doesn't this deal with how to convert existing packages to the new policy?
<lasindi> The problem is, I can't figure out how to make a working package in the first place ...
<bddebian> lasindi: If you have never made a package before, I would suggest the Packaging Guide
<bddebian> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<lasindi> bddebian: Okay, I'm reading through it, and one of the things that has confused me a lot going through this is that, since I don't have a Makefile (as it's a Python program), is that I'm not sure whether or not I need something. It says pbuilder is for building binaries - do I still need it? (I'm asking since other guides I've read only mention dh_make, not pbuilder)
<jdong> sudo chroot /chroot/jail21 agdu -yy --force-yes
<jdong> ack
<jdong> stupid focus
<LaserJock> lasindi: it would be handy to have something like a Makefile
<LaserJock> lasindi: that's why I suggested earlier to use distutils
<LaserJock> but in any case you are building a binary package which can include actual binaries as well as other things (art, text, docs, .py files)
<lasindi> LaserJock: yes, I looked at distutils, but it appears to put all my source files in the same directory as the standard libraries; I'm reluctant to do that because I don't want to cause naming conflicts with other modules.
<lasindi> Right
<LaserJock> lasindi: well, then you could make a simple makefile
<LaserJock> or just do it all in the debian/rules
<lasindi> LaserJock: Okay, so should I create a makefile that basically just does this:
<lasindi> install:
<lasindi>      mkdir -p /usr/share/programname
<lasindi>      cp -r images src /usr/share/programname
<lasindi>      echo "<a shell script that runs the program" > /usr/bin/programname
<lasindi> Would that work?
<LaserJock> something like that yeah
<lasindi> Okay, lemme try that.
<LaserJock> anybody here good with fonts?
<harrisony> LaserJock, hmm give us a shot
<LaserJock> well, people often talk about really good or really bad fonts
<LaserJock> and I normally can't tell the difference
<LaserJock> but as I sit in front of a computer all day I wondered if there were things that made fonts better for the eyes
<harrisony> all i know of is that lcd screens are better for ye eyes than CRT
<PuMpErNiCkEl> Beyond the letters being easily readable, it's mostly just personal preference.  You're not likely to strain your eyes more because your fonts are serifed, for example.
<bddebian> Courier is all you need.. :-)
<harrisony> isnt courier the font in terminal
<bddebian> usually :-)
<harrisony> ahh i was about to say not too much of the terminal font
<superm1> crimsun, ping
<lasindi> LaserJock: ok, I did dh_make && cd debian && debuild -us -uc, but it still only appears to copy the manpage, not any of the Python file or the bash script, to the actual file system.
<LaserJock> lasindi: did you look at debian/rules?
<superm1> LaserJock, perhaps you might be able help in crimsun's absence?
<superm1> after you finish up with lasindi of course
<LaserJock> superm1: what's up?
<superm1> LaserJock, well the upload from a few weeks ago for ivtv-firmware needs to be reversed.  I spoke with BenC, and we have the firmware in main now
<superm1> it still hasn't been acked for multiverse at this point, and is in the NEW queue
<lasindi> LaserJock: yes, I put "make install" under install:. Do I need to do something different with in debian/rules?
<LaserJock> so the ivtv-firmware package doesn't need to be in Multiverse?
<LaserJock> lasindi: and do you know that make install actually does what you want?
<superm1> LaserJock, right.  
<LaserJock> superm1: I'd get ahold of an archive admin
<LaserJock> cjwatson or Keybuk would be the likely candidates
<superm1> LaserJock, okay.  wasn't sure if you (or any other MOTUs) had rights to reverse, so figured i'd poke here
<Hobbsee> or mithrandir
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, but I figured he'd be a little hesitant about it, maybe not :-0
<lasindi> LaserJock: I tried "make install" in the actual source directory (the parent directory of debian); do I need "cd .. && make install && cd debian" instead?
<LaserJock> lasindi: no
<Hobbsee> ah
<lasindi> I think it's installing the files and maybe removing them afterwards
<LaserJock> lasindi: so how are you determining that it didn't work
<superm1> thanks LaserJock & Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> superm1: once uploaded MOTUs can't do anything
<lasindi> LaserJock: I'm opening the .deb package with ArchiveManager and then opening data.tar.gz to look for usr/bin/programname
<LaserJock> lasindi: dpkg -c <pathtodeb>.deb is easier, btw
<LaserJock> lasindi: are you using pbuilder to make the .deb?
<lasindi> No, I'm using debuild
<LaserJock> superm1: as both cjwatson and Keybuk are in the UK I don't expect them up for a while
<superm1> okay, i'll poke around tomorrow morning then
<LaserJock> lasindi: can you pastebin your debian/rules and makefile for me?
<lasindi> Sure
<lasindi> LaserJock: debian/rules: http://rafb.net/p/HQtPxE49.html Makefile: http://rafb.net/p/M2kS3A74.html
<LaserJock> lasindi: ah, found it
<LaserJock> one of the interesting parts of Debian packaging
<LaserJock> you don't want to actually install to /usr/share/
<LaserJock> you want to install to <currentdir>/debian/<packagename>/usr/share/
<lasindi> Ohhhhhhh
<LaserJock> because the .deb is created by building and installing into a temporary directory in debian/
<LaserJock> and then compressing and building the .deb
<LaserJock> normally what we us is the DESTDIR variable
<LaserJock> *use
<LaserJock> like how you see in the debian/rules file
<lasindi> Alright, let me try again
<LaserJock> you want to use that $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/onasow
<lasindi> Right
<LaserJock> and then modify your makefile to accept DESTDIR
<lasindi> LaserJock: forgive my ignorance about makefiles, how can I accept DESTDIR from it?
<LaserJock> lasindi: try something like http://rafb.net/p/AVlNym32.html
<LaserJock> hmm, actually that wouldn't be quite right for that debian/rules line
<lasindi> LaserJock: yeah, I was wondering if that would override the definition in the makefile
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure it does
<lasindi> Okay, I'll try that
<LaserJock> it's good to use both DESTDIR and PREFIX
<nixternal> Happy New Year LaserJock!
<nixternal> <><
<LaserJock> if you want to install to /usr/local/ you would set DESTDIR=/ and PREFIX=usr/local/
<LaserJock> if you want to install to a deb you would do DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/<packagename>/ and PREFIX=usr/
<LaserJock> hi nixternal 
<lasindi> LaserJock: I get an error like this: cp: cannot create regular file `ESTDIR/bin/onasow': No such file or directory
<LaserJock> DESTDIR
<lasindi> So it doesn't look like it interprests DESTDIR
<lasindi> That's the actual error; it looks like it only uses the first letter or something
<LaserJock> check for typos
<LaserJock> I don't think that's right
<Kamping_Kaiser> can someone look at this http://pastebin.ca/302297 , does the line `# VK_HELP doesn't work on other platforms yet` look like its breaking the xml?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. removing the line makes the colouring on the following lines correct again... suppose the xml must be bust
<Kamping_Kaiser> oooh, actually the line above its missing a > at the end... sorry.
<Kamping_Kaiser> */>
<LaserJock> yeah, shesh ;-)
<imbrandon_> ...
<lasindi> LaserJock: ah, I needed to have $(DESTDIR) instead of $DESTDIR
<LaserJock> ah, should have thought of that, sorry
<LaserJock> imbrandon!!
<imbrandon_> haye laserjock ;)
<imbrandon_> gah no tab completion
<imbrandon_> hrm
<imbrandon_> LaserJock got everything working on my 10.4.8 hackentosh :)
<imbrandon_> including parallels
<imbrandon_> :)
<imbrandon_> hrm food sounds good, brb
<LaserJock> dude, I just got the beta of vmware for intel macs today
<LaserJock> I'm going to test it out tomorrow with a full Ubuntu install and see how fast it is
<imbrandon_> yea
<imbrandon_> i have it installed
<imbrandon_> fusion or whatever they named it
<imbrandon_> we use the hell outa vmware at work, vmware 6 is looking nice too with multi monitor support etc
<imbrandon_> i have a beta of that too on my vista box
<lasindi> LaserJock: It works!! Thank you so much for your help, you've really made my day
<bddebian> \o/ LaserJock /o\
<imbrandon_> wb laserjock l
<imbrandon_> hrm
<LaserJock> thanks
<joejaxx> hello imbrandon_  LaserJock 
<imbrandon_> heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> hi joejaxx 
<joejaxx> i had wanted to ask you all a question
<imbrandon_> shoot
<joejaxx> what comes with a project become officially supported
<joejaxx> becoming*
<Hobbsee> officially supported by who?
<joejaxx> Canonical
<joejaxx> just wondering
<joejaxx> because everyone tosses around the term
<joejaxx> but i did not know what that encompasses
<imbrandon_> probably something to ask canonical ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> whats supposed to happen, or what does happen? ;)
<joejaxx> well comes aong with being officially supported
<joejaxx> well what*
<joejaxx> Kamping_Kaiser: so i guess the second part of your question
<joejaxx> bah i cannot splle today
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> along*
<joejaxx> spell*
<LaserJock> well, I think that means that Canonical is willing to sell support for that product
<LaserJock> so it's invested
<joejaxx> oh
<LaserJock> so far that's Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu
<joejaxx> ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> joejaxx, canonical become offical support providers, but also provide biuld servers, usually pay sojmeone to work on it, that sort of stuff
<Kamping_Kaiser> host the websites
<Kamping_Kaiser> integrated into 'teh family'
<joejaxx> oh i do all that already lol
<LaserJock> sure, so it's "joejaxx supported"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<joejaxx> yeah i guess you could say that lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<LaserJock> if it was Canonical supported then Canonical would be paying for or doing some of the things you are already
<LaserJock> but there are various levels of support really
<LaserJock> take Xubuntu for instance
<LaserJock> I don't think Canonical sells support for it
<LaserJock> and it doesn't pay any devs for it
<LaserJock> but it's in Main and they build .isos for it
<LaserJock> so it's kinda inbetween
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> having access to the inner workings of LP is probably the biggest advantage
<Kamping_Kaiser> the irc channels come under ubuntu rule as well
<joejaxx> i think i have all of those accept the last
<joejaxx> well i do have #fluxbuntu under coc
<joejaxx> so there whould not reallybe a difference
<LaserJock> the other big advantage is usually in getting more help
<LaserJock> I think it's a rather large difference
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
<joejaxx> what is the larger difference?
<LaserJock> LP and dev support
<LaserJock> I think those are pretty killer
<joejaxx> but i have lp already
<LaserJock> not all of it
<LaserJock> the important part is soyuz and the .iso building stuff
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah the iso building is the only thing i do not have
<joejaxx> but that is taken care of
<LaserJock> the difference between "dang it, gotta build this sucker" and "tfheen: joejaxx, want me to spin your RC .isos?" is pretty significant, IMO
<LaserJock> archive and build admins are pretty invaluable
<LaserJock> on the other hand, it's obviously much tougher to become and official derivative
<LaserJock> security, etc. has to be pretty tight for Canonical to want to support it
<joejaxx> i know
<joejaxx> i was not thinking about becoming one
<LaserJock> you should be ;-)
<LaserJock> although I'm not sure fluxbuntu is as much of a "fit" with the rest
<LaserJock> its kinda too minimal
<joejaxx> well i had just wanted to see what the difference between the operating system now
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I think xubuntu was accepted as it filled a void
<joejaxx> and what whould happened if it was
<joejaxx> but i really do not see one
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I think  mostly recognition, support, and inside access
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> anyway, I gotta get to bed
<joejaxx> alright Goodnight LaserJock 
<LaserJock> but I'd say if it was offered, take it ;-)
<LaserJock> if not, don't worry about it a ton
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<LaserJock> cya bddebian 
<joejaxx> TheMuso: yeah you are right
<joejaxx> about that*
<crimsun> superm1: pong
<superm1> crimsun, hey.  i was going to mention earlier that ivtv-firmware can be reversed from the upload status, but Laserjock already told me that i should let an archive admin know tomorrow morning instead - since motu can't do anything to reverse it
<superm1> BenC got it into main
<crimsun> superm1: err, it'd be good to ask them to reject it now, then
<superm1> crimsun, is anyone around right now to ask though?
<superm1> i figured most of them are either just waking up or not on yet at this point (given focued in the UK)
<crimsun> right, tollef (mithrandir) should be awake in a bit
<crimsun> adam (infinity) is on vacation still
<superm1> ok
<superm1> i'll watch in #ubuntu-devel for when mithrandir comes on then
<crimsun> colin (cjwatson) and scott (keybuk) are two others, both uk-based
<Kamping_Kaiser> i should be able to add a source line for fiesty and pull in the firefox2 source without any problems shouldnt i? (no depends, just source)
<crimsun> a deb-src line for feisty main, yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> yep. thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> i get a pile of `dpkg-source: cannot represent change to nss/shlibsign.o: binary file contents changed` warnings when dpkg-source is trying to build, does that mean makes not cleaning up properly?
<lifeless> probably
<Kamping_Kaiser> darn.
<Kamping_Kaiser> can i just add rm shlibsign.o to the clean section of the rules file?
<StevenK> You can, or you can fix the clean target of the Makefile.
<Kamping_Kaiser> um ok. i'll try that
<lifeless> I'd fix the upstreams clean target
<lifeless> then mail them a patch
<Kamping_Kaiser> thing is i just got it. i'v run a dozen builds, changed one thing and started getting errors... and i honestly cant belive that what i changed coudl cause it.
<StevenK> nss/shlibsign.o may also be shipped in the orig tarball.
<StevenK> (Which is silly)
<Kamping_Kaiser> it doesnt seem to be shipped
<siretart> lucas: congrats, boy! :)
<lucas> you too :-)
<siretart> :)
* white waves
<white> lucas: congratz
* siretart waves to white :)
<lucas> arg, all those motus that become debian developers ;)
<white> i am not a motu :)
* white is just hear for a good communication betweend debian and ubuntu and wants to help out on syncing stuff and helping motus if they want/need someone for the debian archive
<siretart> hear hear, so all sponsorship requests for debian go to white! :)
<white> well ...
<siretart> (but you may also to ask lucas, slomo, ajmitch, myself, StevenK and any other DD in this channel as well ;)
<white> siretart: you forgot yourself ;)
<tepsipakki> anyone here familiar with ProjectX (a DVB demux tool)?
<tepsipakki> I'd like to package it
<siretart> white: did I?
<tepsipakki> but I have a question.. it is distributed as a cross-platform .zip, so should I include it as-is in the tarball, and use tarball.mk of cdbs or similar to unpack it in the build-process?
<tepsipakki> it is GPL, but includes two .jar's which have Apache License v2.0, is that a problem?
<StevenK> I didn't think Apache and GPL worked together?
<StevenK> siretart: I had no idea were you were able to upload to Debian?
<StevenK> Hrm. Buh bye Launchpad
<StevenK> (Offline for maintaince)
<tepsipakki> StevenK: so, if that's the case then upstream should change their license?
<StevenK> tepsipakki: I'm unsure, I'd suggest you check with debian-legal, or Google for a precedent.
<siretart> StevenK: oh? sorry then
<StevenK> siretart: When did you become a DD?
<tepsipakki> StevenK: yep, googled a bit and it appears to be so..
<StevenK> tepsipakki: Appears to be fine, or not fine?
<tepsipakki> not fine :)
<tepsipakki> FSF claims they are not compatible
<StevenK> Excellent, I do remember correctly.
<tepsipakki> so that basically makes it impossible to include in Debian/Ubuntu without upstream taking necessary actions?
<Kamping_Kaiser> -bugs sugested i ask this here :  is debootstrap only working with ubuntu a bug or a feature? it doesnt work (for me) with debian or gnewsense
<giskard> ciao
<lifeless> Kamping_Kaiser: it should bootstrap anything released before it, and the current release it was downloaded from
<lifeless> Kamping_Kaiser: from ubuntu or debian
<Kamping_Kaiser> hrm. thats a nusense
<tepsipakki> hm, I guess a package can't build-depend on sun-java until the GPL-version is ready, since the current version needs to ask about the license (=doesn't configure in pbuilder)
<siretart> StevenK: elmo created my account today :)
<StevenK> siretart: :-)
<StevenK> siretart: That'd be why I didn't know. :-)
<Fujitsu> A Debian account?
<Kamping_Kaiser> can i selectively disable dpatch patches?
<StevenK> Kamping_Kaiser: Edit debian/patches/00list ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> StevenK, can i comment some out, or do i jsut dd the line?
<StevenK> Personally, I'd dd the line.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hum. righto
<Kamping_Kaiser> ty
<Amaranth> tepsipakki: GPL'ed Sun java is at least 6 months away
<cypherbios> What is the police about "dummy" python packages (i.e.: python2.4-dbus (v2.4) >> python-dbus (v2.4)) ?
<cypherbios> on Edgy this package exists, but in dapper doesn't
<Hobbsee> because we only did the python transition from edgy --> feisty?
<Hobbsee> or was that dapper --> edgy?
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, was dapper --> edgy
<cypherbios> Hobbsee: sorry, dapper --> edgy
<cypherbios> Hobbsee: this packages (python-dbus, for exemple) shouldn't be on dapper too?
<geser> python-dbus still provides python2.4-dbus but it can't be used in a versioned depends
<geser> cypherbios: what's the problem exactly?
<Hobbsee> hey geser 
<geser> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> geser: you've beend oing lots of stuff on u-u-s buglist?  :)
<Hobbsee> bug 76276
<cypherbios> geser: I made an package (is not on ubuntu repo) that have the python-dbus as depend (obviously made for edgy), but the same package couldn't install on dapper because the python-dbus are not on repo (that would point to python2.4-dbus)
<StevenK> python-dbus || python2.4-dbus
<StevenK> Single pipe, too
<cypherbios> but, the question is: The dapper shouldn't have the python2.4-* covered for python-*?
<StevenK> You could always depend on python2.4-dbus, since python-dbus in Edgy should Provide python2.4-dbus
<cypherbios> StevenK: the edgy is not the problem, the question is about dapper
<cypherbios> StevenK: on edgy is ok
<geser> only in an unversioned depends
<StevenK> cypherbios: Yes, hence my answer.
<gjohnston> hi, I think the game Tremulous might be suitable for the Universe repository rather than Multiverse as it's in at the moment
<gjohnston> Please see my forum post at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1958824#post1958824
<gjohnston> I think the game Tremulous might be suitable for the Universe repository rather than Multiverse as it's in at the moment
<gjohnston> Please see my forum post at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1958824#post1958824
<mr_pouit> gjohnston, AFAIK, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike Licence isn't compatible with the gpl (and also with the Debian Free Software Guideline), that's why it is in multiverse
<gjohnston> ok
<gjohnston> is it just because of the DFSG that it's there?
<gjohnston> because surely all free software licences are allowed in universe even if they're GPL-incompatible?
<geser> Debian has tremulous in contrib
<ogra> mr_pouit, that would force all artwork we ship in ubuntu to multiverse ...
<fatalerror> probably a mistake
<ogra> there must be something else...
<Nafallo> wikipedia says some of the textures isn't CC
<gjohnston> yeah i wrote that
<gjohnston> it only seems to be in the windows version though
<gjohnston> ive read the three different 'copyright' files in the ubuntu package and that exception isn't there
<mr_pouit> ogra, mmh, ok :S
<gjohnston> it just says all the media is under the CC-BY-SA licence
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: about #76716, you got a minute?
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: sure
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: but i'll warn you now, if you attach diffs like that, they make my eyes hurt :P
<tepsipakki> I'll behave nice from now on :)
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: :)
<tepsipakki> I was just being lazy..
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: so i saw :P
<tepsipakki> anyway, the tarball checksums differ, although diff shows that they are the same
<Hobbsee> that's...not great :P
<StevenK> And config.{guess,sub} really oughtn't be to touched.
<StevenK> s/be to/to be/
<tepsipakki> of course not..
<StevenK> config.sub is the second file touched in your diff.
<tepsipakki> yes yes :)
<tepsipakki> la-zy
* Hobbsee pokes tepsipakki a few times with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  for being lazy
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: lazy's fine, as long as you dont want it uploaded :P
<tepsipakki> heh
<tepsipakki> I'd like it to be sorted now :)
<Hobbsee> OK.  fix the patch then :)
<tepsipakki> anyway, it needs some sort of divine intervention to get the new tarball in, right?
<tepsipakki> or, rather, not even try that
<tepsipakki> but merge using the tarball that we have now, and wait for a new upstream version?
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: correct
<tepsipakki> right, I'll get on with it
<tepsipakki> btw, the config.* stuff is from .diff.gz, likewise on many, many packages :)
<tepsipakki> I wonder why config.* is copied in during clean
<geser> clean is called before the build target
<tepsipakki> also before the source is built
<tepsipakki> so they end up in diff.gz
<geser> yes
<lritter> hi there
<lritter> i'm trying to build a package, and i added libjack0.100.0-dev as dependency, but pbuilder can't find it... what's my mistake?
<Hobbsee> lritter: likely universe isnt enabled in your pbuilder
<lritter> Hobbsee: but i did.
<lritter> Hobbsee: at least i believe i did.
<Hobbsee> lritter: in pbuilderrc?
<lritter> sudo pbuilder create --distribution edgy --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe multiverse"
<Hobbsee> hrm
<Hobbsee> !info libjack0.100.0-dev
<ubotu> libjack0.100.0-dev: JACK Audio Connection Kit (development files). In component universe, is optional. Version 0.101.1-1 (edgy), package size 115 kB, installed size 864 kB
<Nafallo> lritter: sudo pbuilder login, then cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<lritter> root@aspera:/# cat /etc/apt/sources.list            
<lritter> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe multiverse
<lritter> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy main
<lritter> #deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy main
<lritter> that's it
<Nafallo> sudo pbuilder update before you build again maybe?
<Nafallo> just to make sure.
<Nafallo> or add D-hooks to always do it for you :-)
<lritter> compared to building packages for arch, this is seriously overengineered.
<lritter> ok, i try a pbuilder update
<lritter> ah, now it works.
<imbrandon_> wow when did the LP url scheme change ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: the which?
<imbrandon_> lp.net/people/imbrandon  --> lp.net/~imbrandon
<imbrandon_> i'm sure that wasent the only change, just the one i noticed today
<Hobbsee> ah yes
<Nafallo> kewl
<StevenK>  /distros has also gone away
<imbrandon_> hrm
<imbrandon_> strange
<imbrandon_> hopefully everything redirects ok
<StevenK> My bookmarks still work, so I suppose so.
<imbrandon_> hehe
<imbrandon_> yea thats what i was worried about
<imbrandon_> i have a shitton of bookmarks
<Nafallo> bddebian: ! *hugs*
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi Nafallo
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon_> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<lritter> dpkg-deb: building package `libzzub-dev' in `../libzzub-dev_0.1-1_i386.deb'.
<lritter> tar: -: file name read contains nul character
<lritter> what kind of error is this?
<Nafallo> seems to be a NOOP :-)
<lritter> i don't understand it
<lritter> it does not build my package, instead i get above error messages
<geser> lritter: it must be something else
<geser> I also see this sometimes in pbuilder and the package stills builds
<lritter> well besides that one there are no other errors
<lritter> i get a lot of these tho:
<lritter> warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)
<geser> those are also normal
<geser> where are you looking for the deb?
<geser> have you looked in /var/cache/pbuilder/result?
<lritter> oh, there they are :)
<lritter> but no files included
<lritter> grr
<joejaxx> hello all
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<Sp4rKy> hi all
<bddebian> Heya Sp4rKy
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: hello :)
<Sp4rKy> heya joejaxx 
<Sp4rKy> how are you ?
<joejaxx> i am ok just a little tired
<Riddell> elkbuntu: that recording of Auld Lang Syne was sounding quite good until the last line randomly anglisised the title!
<jdong> imbrandon: gasp, beryl in feisty :)
<jdong> sweet
<crimsun> beryl makes my install weep and kill baby jebus
<crimsun> (as does compiz for that matter, so none of that eye candy crap here)
<jdong> lol
* jdong goes and pressures ktorrent upstream to tag a second beta release :D
<crimsun> it completely breaks changing mode in every env I've tried
<jdong> crimsun: changing mode?
<crimsun> xrandr
<jdong> oh, ok
<jdong> yeah I wouldn't be surprised if that breaks :)
<nixternal> crimsun: ala beryl of crap :)
<nixternal> heh, makes your install weep and kill baby jesus ;p
<ogra> but it wobbles
<ryanakca> how do I fix "E: solseek source: build-depends-on-obsolete-package build-depends: xlibs-dev"
<crimsun> my fist wobbles, too, when I can't change modes using xranr and compiz/beryl
<crimsun> xrandr, even
<fdoving> ryanakca: depend on xorg-dev is my guess.
<ryanakca> kk, thanks
<fdoving> ryanakca: instead of the old xlibs-dev.
<nixternal> haha ogra
<nixternal> but it wobbles
<crimsun> ryanakca: use the modular b-ds
<ogra> ryanakca, apt-cache show xlibs-dev
<crimsun> beryl's almost up there with hda-intel 
<ogra> it has a description ;)
<ryanakca> crimsun: umm... sorry... lost me... modular b-ds?
<crimsun> see what ogra typed
<ogra> b-ds -> build-dependencies
<ryanakca> yep :)
<ryanakca> ah, kk, thanks
<geser> bddebian: can I merge mysql-query-browser?
<bddebian> geser: Yes, please.  But can you please do me a favor and see where the .desktop file goes.  Apparently in Edgy it's in the wrong location?
<geser> bddebian: $ dpkg-deb -c mysql-query-browser-common_1.2.5beta-2ubuntu1_all.deb  | grep desktop
<geser> -rw-r--r-- root/root       223 2007-01-03 18:08 ./usr/share/applications/MySQLQueryBrowser.desktop
<ryanakca> can I safely ignore "W: solseek source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst"? and how do I fix http://pastebin.ca/303034 ? (it's only been happening since I've been using gpg-agent...)
<geser> bddebian: according to p.u.c it's in edgy in the same location
<lionel> geser, bddebian: on what I can see on my Edgy box the .desktop is as the right place and MySQL Query Browser appears in the menu
<lionel> but the icon is missing
<lionel> icon sits there: /usr/share/mysql-gui/MySQLIcon_QueryBrowser_48x48.png
<bddebian> Ack, yeah the icon, sorry
<geser> I will change the desktop file to use the installed xpm file then
<bddebian> geser: That file should be OK, it's just in the wrong place :)
<geser> the package installes already an icon (xpm) in /usr/share/pixmaps
<joejaxx> lol i really need to have a local copy of universe haha
<joejaxx> you all said it was about 25GB right? for one arch?
<joejaxx> and for one release ie feisty
<xerxas> I cannot compile a mono program within pbuilder , gmcs crashes, but it doesn't crash outside of the pbuilder, does anyone have a hint ? 
<cavediver> Hi there, are there plans for packaging Asterisk 1.4 anytime soon. I was told to ask here.
<cavediver> Hm. I though He-Man was the master of the universe...
<ogra> he-man == dholbach ...
<ogra> he-man is on holiday :)
<cavediver> I see...
<cavediver> :P
<Nafallo> ogra: seb to? :-)
<cavediver> Are you guys just running the repos or are you also packaging stuff ?
<ogra> nope, seb doesnt lead motu :)
<Nafallo> ogra: holiday silly ;-)
<ogra> motu is only about packagng
<cavediver> Ok.
<ogra> the buildds are run by the buildd admins ... not related to motu 
<cavediver> If I want to learn to package stuff, where do I start ?
<Nafallo> I haven't seen anything gnomish uploaded in a while :-P
<ogra> read the packaging guide in the docs 
<ogra> its included by default in ubuntu
<cavediver> The closest I've come to that is alien a rmp package :P
<ogra> its a very easy guide to get your first packages done ...
<cavediver> I see, will look into it then.
<ogra> if you got that done and want to dig deeper read the debian new maintainer guide
<ogra> but beware, its a beast of a document
<cavediver> I'm sure it is.
<xerxas> Nafallo:  ? 
<xerxas> you have no idea on my mono problem ? 
<Nafallo> xerxas: nope
<somerville32> !info curl
<ubotu> curl: Get a file from an HTTP, HTTPS, FTP or GOPHER server. In component main, is optional. Version 7.15.4-1ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 157 kB, installed size 256 kB
<xerxas> Nafallo:  can you have a look at my error ?
<xerxas> http://pastebin.ca/303117
<Nafallo> xerxas: don't remember how to fix that, sorry. you might want to look at one of the other apps and try to figure it out.
<Nafallo> xerxas: s/apps/packages/
<xerxas> Nafallo:  do you know wich one ? 
<xerxas> f-spot ? 
<xerxas> or one that uses NSharp ? 
<Nafallo> xerxas: just a mono-thing :-)
<xerxas> ok 
<Nafallo> if I'm not mistaken they require some extra love somewhere..
<xerxas> they ? other mono packages ? 
<xerxas> what love ? 
* bddebian requires some extra love..
<xerxas> :)
<Nafallo> bddebian: :-)
<Nafallo> xerxas: baah. still better ask one of the mono guys :-P
<xerxas> Nafallo:  you mean, make a bug report ? 
<Nafallo> xerxas: I meant to ping them :-)
<xerxas> I don't think they know something about pbuilder, but will try anyway 
<somerville32> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curl/+bug/73447
<somerville32> ...
<somerville32> Ubugtu: Bug #73447
<somerville32> Anyhows...
<somerville32> cjwatson approved the SRU 
<somerville32> I should subscribe the archive team, right?
* white waves to siretart 
<white> siretart: finish with work? :)
<somerville32> oh wait, nvm
<somerville32> I need to upload the package
<somerville32> doh
<somerville32> Which means I need a core-dev sponsor! :D
<siretart> white: just returned home :)
<fdoving> somerville32: there is ubuntu-main-sponsors team in launchpad. might want to subscribe that if you don't find an core-dev sponsor.
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<somerville32> fdoving: Since crimsun isn't around, who is a good person to bug?
<fdoving> somerville32: I bug imbrandon if he's around.
<somerville32> imbrandon: ping
<siretart> huhu bddebian 
<somerville32> ajmitch, ping
<xerxas> bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net; 
<xerxas> is this normal ? 
<xerxas> oops 
<xerxas> sorry , I didn't saw my private key isn't the correct one 
<xerxas> how svn and bzr stuff are supposed to be versionned ? 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know if edgy-proposed uploads show up in the edgy queue?
<LaserJock> actually, maybe that's a better question for -devel
<LaserJock> hmm, well ubuntu-archive is currently subscribed to 124 bugs, that could be it
<enyc> LaserJock: I dont understand the way updates / bug fixing really works
<LaserJock> ok
<enyc> LaserJock: I dont know igf everything is automatically looked at by some team... or what exactly
<LaserJock> well, what do you mean by "everything"?
<enyc> LaserJock: I have put in SRU update bug report ... and it has now been answered by StephanPoytra ;-)
<enyc> LaserJock: I mean bugs relating to packages in universe  really...
<ryanakca> can I safely ignore "W: solseek source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst"? and how do I fix http://pastebin.ca/303034 ? (it's only been happening since I've been using gpg-agent...)
<LaserJock> well, for Universe, ultimately a MOTU has to look at it at some point
<enyc> LaserJock: I seee ... and they always do? 
<LaserJock> enyc: as they have time
<LaserJock> enyc: there is much to do
<enyc> LaserJock: [ok] 
<LaserJock> we are working on trying to speed/optimize things
<enyc> LaserJock: please tell me what is meant by "+1" mentioned by Stephan in https://launchpad.net/bugs/77485
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77485 in qpsmtpd "[SRU]  request: edgy:qpsmtpd fix for bug #72602" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<LaserJock> but it's still a lot of manual work
<enyc> LaserJock: I dont know if this has now been uploaded to proposed or what
<LaserJock> enyc: Stephan is a part of the motu-sru team
<LaserJock> enyc: it should be all documented on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<enyc> LaserJock: sure... and im not sure what he means by saying "+1" there
<LaserJock> that's an "ack" or an approval
<LaserJock> "A proposal is accepted, once three people from the MOTU-SRU team give their assent."
<LaserJock> that was one
<enyc> LaserJock: aha [ok]  ;-)
<enyc> LaserJock: right well solong as this has started te be apporved.. I shall create another SRU update for the dapper package in the same way (has same bug!)
<enyc> LaserJock: now that I understand I am doing the right thing ;-)
<crimsun> tsmithe: #77689 doesn't state whether you have anything else in ~/.asoundrc
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I think you need a #DEBHELPER line in the postinst or prerm scripts
<ryanakca> LaserJock: kk, thanks... and the gpg error?
<crimsun> has anyone offered a class on filing -good- bugs?
<crimsun> these bugs stab baby jebus in the -face-.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I think the general consensus might be that we could offer one but not enough people would show up
<LaserJock> to make much of a difference at leat
<ryanakca> crimsun: the average user usually only files a bug if they think it's major or if they can't do their work... (from what I know)... so, I don't think many people would show up... and the people who work with bugs usualy already know how to properly file them... so attendence would be very low...
<crimsun> no, this would be geared to ubuntu-dev hopeful.
<ryanakca> crimsun: might help if we had an interface simillar to bugs.kde.org for filing bugs... that way we get the most information possible...
<ryanakca> ah, kk
<crimsun> sorry, I should have been more explicit in stating that I'm unimpressed with several ubuntu-dev [hopefuls]  for these bug reports.
<LaserJock> crimsun: in that case I say it would be a good idea
<crimsun> we should know better.
<ryanakca> kk... yeah
<LaserJock> I think MOTU School should be also used for "Continuing Education" as well as teaching new people
* ryanakca wonders if MOTU School + Classroom would ever think of combining into one big education thing...
<LaserJock> ryanakca: the Ubuntu Classroom?
<ryanakca> yes... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<LaserJock> about a year ago or so I wanted to create a online Ubuntu classroom system that all Ubuntu teams could use
<ryanakca> our schedule is getting kindof empty as you can see... we've run out of topics... and teachers... and it would be helpful if we got a bit of advertising :D
<LaserJock> something like moodle
<Nafallo> LaserJock: sounds nice :-)
<LaserJock> yeah, just not the easiest thing in the world to do
<LaserJock> I wanted to create one place where people could come to learn about everything *buntu
<Nafallo> things seldom are before you've done them and learnt :-)
<LaserJock> from the community
<ryanakca> LaserJock: the current one is geared mainly towards new users... seeing that it's currently "owned"/"managed" by the NUN... but it was used for Ubuntu week...
<ryanakca> LaserJock: If the MOTUs like the idea... maybe add it to the NUN meeting agenda?
<LaserJock> yeah, perhaps
<LaserJock> as always it's a matter of time
<ryanakca> LaserJock: I'm sending the mailing list a little wake-up... maybe organise a meeting sometime in the next couple of weeks... who knows ;)
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I'm interested in moving things beyond just an IRC classroom session
<LaserJock> we should take material that comes from the sessions and cleaning it up and putting it somewhere
<LaserJock> I try to take material from the MOTU School sessions and put them into the Packaging Guide for instance
* tsmithe would gladly attend a "better bugs" session
<tsmithe> i would never have realised to say other than I had on that report otherwise
<LaserJock> also maybe using some real classroom technology (moodle, whiteboards, etc.)
<tsmithe> also, i hasten to add that the only reason i did not respond was not that i was not willing, rather that my wireless network was being less than mediocre
<ryanakca> Someone had mailed the nun mailing list a couple of weeks ago about setting up some real classes in some real physical buildings... (local library, LUG, etc)
<LaserJock> interesting
<Nafallo> nice
<LaserJock> wouldn't get much where I'm at
<ryanakca> LaserJock: We take the material from the Classroom session and put it in some guides... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts  (iirc)
* Nafallo saw that gentoo docs hade LPI-cert training ;-)
<LaserJock> ryanakca: right, but where do they go from there?
<ryanakca> same here... KLUG (local LUG) seems to have gone extinct 2-3 years ago...
<ryanakca> LaserJock: They just sit there unused... from what I can see...
<LaserJock> that's my point
<ryanakca> ah
<LaserJock> if those could be turned into actual "textbooks" for use online or for the doc team it would seem more productive
<ryanakca> I thought you meant going as far as cleaning it and uploading it somewhere for someone to use... we've done that... just that I don't think anybody knows about it...
<ryanakca> yeah
<LaserJock> it would be cool to have an Ubuntu 101 series
<LaserJock> where the people read through some material
<LaserJock> and then once a week get together online and get questions answered, etc.
<ryanakca> yeah... maybe have a session where "here's the material, here's some questions... if you have questions, come see us, hand in the homework, we'll correct it or give you a link to the answers.. maybe even stick a little gold star on it ;)"
<ryanakca> aka, have a real school type thing where people can monitor their progress... 
<ryanakca> but, we'd have to find a whole slew of people willing to help out...
<LaserJock> it'd probably be easier then having people give full 1hr lectures
<ryanakca> hmm... yeah... set up a mailing list... every week, mail out the class material, the questions, and the answers to the previous week's questions... and they could ask questions in it as well...
<ryanakca> That way you don't have to worry about timezones, people not showing up, etc...
<LaserJock> realtime is good too of course
<LaserJock> just gets hard if that's it
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> I'm thinking  maybe reduce realtime courses to monthly instead of biweekly... and then have the mailing list type course... who knows... I'll add that to the agenda...
<LaserJock> well, if you added in a bit more advanced stuff
<ryanakca> Ubuntu-doc might be interested... they write the documentation... we (NUN/MOTU/QA/Ubuntu Education Organisation) form questions based on it... we mail it out...
<LaserJock> and contribution related
<ryanakca> yeah
<LaserJock> something like get 1 team every 2 weeks or so to do a little "team marketing" :-)
<ryanakca> yeah...
<ryanakca> how many teams are there anywais? MOTU, Core, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, QA, Testers, NUN, Desktop / XGL, doc...
<LaserJock> artwork
<LaserJock> forums
<LaserJock> desktop
<ryanakca> yeah... hmm... forgot about forums...
<ryanakca> desktop... wouldn't that be XGL? or just plain user?
<ryanakca> (standard install desktop)
<LaserJock> desktop mostly the gnome team
<LaserJock> ryanakca: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
* ryanakca adds those ideas to the Adgenda
<ryanakca> wow... lots of them... lets say theres 25 of them... they do a speech per year...
<siretart> is there a bzr command like repo-push, which pushes not a single branch, but a complete repository and all its branches?
<lritter> ryanakca: just to put things into perspective: school sucks.
<ryanakca> lritter: meh... depends on your point of view?
<LaserJock> lritter: unless you want to do it :-)
<lritter> no, it's universal truth.
<lritter> i'm sure it was in the bible, as well, but they blanked it out.
<LaserJock> I like school as long as I'm interested in the subject
<lritter> seriously, lectures and homework is not the best method to get people to learn something
<lritter> if this was the way i had to learn about computers when i was 9 years old, i would have become a cook or something.
<LaserJock> lritter: it really depends on the person
<lritter> to try a different metaphor: you learn the best parts about sex in bed, not in school.
<white> lritter: is it you or millions of children saying that? :)
<lritter> i'm pretty sure it's millions of children saying that
<LaserJock> and unfortunately it's very difficult to give a perfect learning environment to everybody
<lritter> i have a better idea
<white> hehe
<lritter> draw a comic explaining ubuntu
<lritter> make it a series
<lritter> this is how i learned about ms-dos back then :)
<LaserJock> well, I did use Captain Packager in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide ;p
<lritter> it's a good guide, i believe
<lritter> packaging is still a mess, tho.
<lritter> compared to gentoo or arch
<lritter> well anyway, a comic where ubuntu explains itself... the parts it consists of and so on
<lritter> where you can click on parts of the dialogue and get to documentation and stuff
<lritter> to read some of the things in detail
<lritter> would be entertaining, and people learn the basics on the way
<lritter> i had a book back then made like that, for ms-dos
<lritter> i think i learned everything important... all the command.com commands, what the command.com is, how the system boots, what PATH is...
<lritter> ascii character tables, writing batchfiles...
<lritter> it wasn't a book for children
<lritter> but children could read and understand it
<LaserJock> interesting
<lritter> e.g. to explain command.com, ms-dose (it's a german word play, DOS -> DOSE (can, so she looks like a can))
<lritter> had a commander hat on, and gave commands to files
<lritter> files where small knobs with legs and a face
<lritter> "dir" was a way to let them march up in rows, flags were ways to have them march up differently
<lritter> the part that explained directories was built in a way that boxes were organized in a tree... cd and other commands were used to jump between these boxes
<lritter> PATH was a robot which could jump between these boxes on its own
<LaserJock> geeze, I just read books and typed a lot :/
<lritter> and it had one big 2-paged example where you could see different commands in different folders have an effect (or not)
<lritter> well it was the first book about computers i ever had
<lritter> <3
<lritter> the second was the regular reference of gw-basic 
<lritter> but the first book really helped me to get started
<lritter> it also conveyed this feeling that there was an army of little men waiting for my commands - my personal kingdom
<lritter> and it had examples of what would happen when commands were not working... e.g. when commander dose was starting a program that was not in the path... screaming his lungs out shouting "CHESS.EXE! CHESS.EXE!!" while chess.exe sits there stupidly.
<lritter> (in a different folder)
<lritter> i mean, after all, the computer exposes a model of computing someone had... and it's easier to explain models in stories than to just throw the facts at people
<lritter> i think most people can work easier with images
<lritter> and examples
<ryanakca> the visual learners can... if your auditory... maybe not...
<lritter> a minority is auditory
<ryanakca> yeah
<lritter> i have a hard time listening.
<lritter> :>
* ryanakca learns by example...
<lritter> monkey see, monkey do
<lritter> :>
<ryanakca> lritter: just a sec, I have a link for you...
<vil> ademan: ping
<ryanakca> or not... I guess the commics in Why's (Poingant) guide to Ruby aren't as I remember...
<lritter> :)
<ademan> vil: pong
<ademan> :-)
<vil> ademan: hi
<ademan> how's it goin?
<vil> did yoy find any problem with the eclipse-cdt so far?
<vil> i would like to publish it finally
<vil> fine, thx
<jdong> how long do the servers keep old versions of binaries around?
<LaserJock> jdong: I'm not sure
<LaserJock> jdong: do you want it gone or do you want something that's already gone?
<jdong> LaserJock: neither, a hypothetical situation
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well, I think it's pretty fast
<jdong> right now the ktorrent.org 2.0.3 package link points to dapper-backports official packaging
<LaserJock> but LP keeps them
<jdong> I want to make 2.1RC1 available thru backports
<jdong> and was wondering if there'd be another way to grab the 2.0.3 packages
<jdong> you say LP keeps them around?
<jdong> ah yes, I see them
<ademan> vil: no it's going great, i just wish there was an easier way to get it to use the sun jvm, but that's unfortunately up to doko i believe right?
<jdong> LaserJock: how long does launchpad archive them? :D
<ademan> i was thinking of packaging up cube and maybe nexuiz, is there a way to see if they're already in revu?
<siretart> jdong: I *think* that old binaries aren't garbage collected at all yet, but that may change at any time
<siretart> ademan: please don't
<LaserJock> jdong: forever, as far as I know
<ademan> siretart: why?
<jdong> cool :)
<siretart> ademan: cube has severe licence issues making it unnable to package, und nexuiz is ridiculusly big
<ademan> hrm, i thought cube was gpl
<siretart> ademan: rather join the debian pkg-games team and commit directly to their team branch for nexuiz
<siretart> ademan: no, it isn't
<ademan> oh... :-/
<bddebian> The Engine is
<ademan> ah
<siretart> ademan: the engine is in theory zlib, the media files are unlincened
<bddebian> But not the content of any of the games derived from it
<ademan> true, i did recognize those models from polygen or whatever
<siretart> ademan: the upstream author is kind of a moron, and does not want any redistribution or recompiled binaries
<siretart> ademan: been there, tried that, gave it up
<vil> siretart: maybe it can be done in multiverse...
<siretart> vil: no licence - no permission to redistribute - no multiverse. sorry
<ademan> siretart: have you contacted him?
<siretart> ademan: a good friend of mine
<siretart> ademan: btw, you might rather want to have a look at sauerbraten. unfortunately, the licencing situation is pretty similar
<ademan> that's sad i like cube
* siretart like the game as well
<siretart> upstream doesn't want to have it in distributions
<ademan> why wouldn't he want it redistrobuted?  unless it has to do with him dodging his own legal bullets (like i said i dunno the license on those models)
<siretart> because he does only want to support his own binaries
<ademan> hrm, but can't the redistrobution license have the free software warning "no warranty provided" or whatever?
<siretart> you may want to talk to 'Fuddl' on irc. he currently works on sauerbraten for debian and knows the situation much better than me. we are at the same university and I trust his judgements
<ademan> oh polycount was the site i was thinking of, i was pretty sure those models were from the quake 2 section of polycount
<ademan> wow, polycount has changed, can't even access the models atm to check
<ademan> either way, maybe i should shoot for open arena instead for now
<vil> ademan: back to eclipse, can you remind me about the sun jvm thing?
<ademan> basically it's slow with the GNU jvm
<ademan> or whatever the alternative to the sun jvm was
<ademan> and it seems to try very hard to use the alternative JVM
<ademan> even update-alternatives didn't help
<ademan> ie it ignores what ubuntu says is the default java jvm
<vil> aah, i see
<vil> let me think about it, if we can change that somehow
<vil> well, i have a question about package versioning if anyone can help
<siretart> ademan: openarena is already ready and packaged by Fuddl as well ;)
<ademan> siretart: geeze i'm just useless lol
<ademan> that was on debian though correct?  So we'll see it in feisty?
<white> ademan: make sure that wesnoth is always the newest version :)
<white> ademan: and that the pictures for the characters do not change otherwise i lose my identification part again :(
<siretart> ademan: if it hasn't been synced yet, please file a sync request
<bddebian> siretart: Speaking of games, care to check out pegsolitaire on REVU for me? :)
<vil> i made a new version of eclipse-cdt package (upstream 3.1.1)
<siretart> bddebian: err, sorry?
<white> ademan: ah and send the patches to debian bts so that i can play the newest version as well ;)
<ademan> siretart: what do you mean?  sync from debian?
<vil> the last was take from debian eclipse-cdt-3.0.1-3
<bddebian> siretart: I uploaded a game written by a friend of mine on REVU called pegsolitaire. :)
<vil> what would be the right version number for the new package, if it will be uploaded to feisty?
<ademan> white: hehe, well i was hoping to package from scratch for my first package, i'm new to this
<siretart> ah
<white> ademan: hold on
<siretart> ademan: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - section 'syncs'
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<siretart> hey sistpoty!
<white> ademan: you could package qtodo, i was thinking about using it :)
<sistpoty> hi bddebian and siretart
<white> ademan: hijack this ITP and go for it :)
<white> ademan: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=345909
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 345909 in wnpp "ITP: qtodo -- Todo List Manager" [Wishlist,Open]  
<white> oh nice
<siretart> white: yes, Ubugtu is a good friend. it knows about a couple of bugtrakers
<white> hmm i might consider using it regularly ;)
<white> ademan: don't worry about amu, you can just take the ITP, just in case you can tell him i told you to do so 
<white> nice wording, i should hit the hay
<vil> hey folks, can i ask someone to help with package version numbers?
<sistpoty> what's your problem vil?
<vil> not sure, what version suffix to choose
<sistpoty> vil: for a new package?
<vil> i made a new version of cdt and would like to put it in feisty
<sistpoty> vil: is it in feisty already? or completely new package?
<vil> there exists eclipse-cdt-3.0.1-3 in both debian and ubuntu
<geser> and the version you packaged?
<sistpoty> vil: new upstream version or the same one?
<vil> the new upstream is 3.1.1
<sistpoty> vil: then it's 3.1.1-0ubuntu1
<vil> new upstream
<vil> ok, sounds good
<siretart> white: you know amu?
<sistpoty> vil: in case 3.1.1 would hit debian it would be 3.1.1-1. using 3.1.1-0ubuntu1 thus ensures that a new debian version will be higher
<white> siretart: sure
<vil> also, sometimes i get W: NMU shoud be mentioned in the changelog (or similar). should i care about it or is that ok?
<bddebian> vil: Ignore that for Ubuntu
<white> siretart: well several years ago we were working a bit together and we became friends
<sistpoty> vil: we don't have the maintainer principle in ubuntu, so we don't have NMU's as well... just ignore it
<vil> great, thx for explaining
<sistpoty> np
<white> siretart: do you know him? some time passed by since i've heard from him, is he still working on the same stuff?
<siretart> white: I've met him in wiesbaden at linuxtag 2006, together with \sh
<white> i guess he is still doing kubuntu stuff 
<siretart> that's what I heard as well, but I might not be uptodate
<white> yes i reckon that was the last time when i met him face to face :(
<white> well but i'll catch some sleep now, see you later
<Nafallo> siretart: you made -extracodecs transitional to now :-P
<siretart> Nafallo: I just uploaded xine-lib_1.1.3-1ubuntu1, which reintroduces -extracodecs for upgrading purposes
<Nafallo> siretart: yea, saw that. I just liked the old name ;-)
<siretart> old name? sorry?
<Nafallo> -extracodecs :-) was easy to understand what it was :-)
<ryanakca> can I safely ignore "W: solseek source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst"? and how do I fix http://pastebin.ca/303034 ? (it's only been happening since I've been using gpg-agent...)
<siretart> Nafallo: ah, I see
<siretart> ryanakca: run lintian with option '-i' to see the long explanation
<ryanakca> siretart: how would I run lintian for an error/warning created during debuild -S -sa?
<ryanakca> nevermind :)
<ademan> psssttt... what does itp stand for?
<ryanakca> and about the GPG problem?
<Nafallo> ademan: Intent To Package
<siretart> ademan: intend to package
<ademan> ah
<siretart> imbrandon_: we have beryl in feisty now?
<ademan> thanks
<ryanakca> idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, information technology professional, or intend to package :D
<ademan> until the NVIDIA drivers get their act together i don't really want to see beryl anywhere near feisty
<bddebian> Itch Thy Posterior
<ryanakca> also, institute of transpersonal psychology :D
<ryanakca> or that :P
<ryanakca> does Ubuntu have an ITP tracker? (I know debian does...)
<siretart> ademan: nvidia works for me on nvidia 6600gt and compiz, so why not with beryl?
<ryanakca> would make it much easier to figure out if someone is working on something
<siretart> bddebian: lol
<ademan> siretart: ever heard of the black window bug?
<siretart> ademan: haven't seen it yet. I'm currently somewhat annoyed about its poor multihead support
<ademan> i've got a 6600 go, and i contend with it regularly, well, whenever i feel like running beryl, which isn't much... because of the black window bug
<siretart> hm. why it doesn't happen with compiz?
<ademan> siretart: i would assume it does
<ademan> what resolution do you run at?
<ademan> it happens when the video card runs out of vram
<Lutin> depends if compiz relies of the glx extensions provdied byt he nvidia driver I guess
<ademan> bigger windows = more memory
<Lutin> s/of/on
<siretart> left monitor at 1280x1024, right one 1024x768
<ademan> geeze
<ademan> i would think you'd get it
<siretart> sorry, didn't notice it
<ademan> does compiz use GL_ext_texture_from_pixmap?
<siretart> what is it?
<siretart> no idea
<Lutin> compiz uses xgl iirc
<sistpoty> can I have some cool looking stuff as well? and a flex with real c++ support please? *g*
<ademan> when the video card runs out of vram all windows created after that point are black, in theory it should start using system ram, but the NVIDIA drivers don't yet
<Nafallo> Lutin: I've used compiz OOTB on feisty... AIGLX
<Lutin> Nafallo: ah ok
<ademan> i haven't done squat development on ubuntu yet, i'm still sorely missing my beloved msvc++
<Lutin> anyway, I guess the bug is caused by the nvidia-provided glx_ext_texture_from_pixmap
<ademan> eclipse-cdt is nice, but slow
<ademan> Lutin: yes, it was supposed to be fixed in the newest release but it wasn't
<Lutin> ademan: oh :/
<Lutin> can't say, I don't really use beryl and even when I use it, I'm never out of video ram ^^
<ademan> specs?  and desktop res?
<Lutin> 1280*1024 Geforce 7300GT / 256Mo
<ademan> yeah, makes sense lol
<Lutin> indeed
<ademan> next time you do try and open a TON of maximized windows
<ademan> after a time (probably pretty long for you) you'll start getting black ones
<Lutin> ademan: ok, will try in a few days when I'll be back home
<ademan> i get it after 6 or 7, used to be 3 or 4 with the old drivers, but of course i'm running at 1920x1200
<Lutin> and how many video ram ?
<ademan> 128mb
<Lutin> ok
<Lutin> will beryl be in feisty ?
<ademan> that was my understanding
<ademan> as the default WM no less
<Lutin> *shrug*
<Lutin> kind of suprising
<siretart> sistpoty: Thanks for your SRU reports. YOU ROCK! :)
<sistpoty> siretart: np... took me quite some time to get an overview myself
<sistpoty> siretart: maybe we should use the bug state as some indicator, what do you think?
<siretart> ademan: I think feisty will offer the choice between metacity and compiz
<Lutin> siretart: you mean install-time choice ?
<siretart> sistpoty: either bugstate or tags. but bugstate might be more useful
<crimsun> sistpoty: we should have a "test the SRUs in -proposed" day
<sistpoty> crimsun: full ack :)
<crimsun> quite a few are languishing due to insufficient ACKs
<sistpoty> yes
<siretart> Lutin: rather at run-time
<crimsun> I'll write up something and send to -motu, -devel-announce, and the fridge
<sistpoty> cool, thanks crimsun
<crimsun> it's a really easy way to contribute
<Lutin> siretart: which means the compositing stuff will be installed anyway N
<bddebian> Later gang
<Lutin> s/N/?
<sistpoty> siretart: not quite sure if bug state is really the best thing... if you look at https://launchpad.net/~motu-sru/+subscribedbugs it won't work if the bug is not an sru-report, but instead points to the feisty bug
<sistpoty> oh, cool. LP changed that /people/... address *g*
<siretart> just noticed that as well
<siretart> that makes code.launchpad.net way more usable
<siretart> sistpoty: how many SRU team members have to approve an request again?
<sistpoty> siretart: 3
<siretart> k
<ademan> hey, i just upgraded my firefox and it's using the normal firefox logo now....
<ademan> mistake?  or is that a result of the canonical/mozilla talks?
<crimsun> the latter.
<ademan> cool, it's good to have shuttleworth for a leader lol
<ademan> er, spokesman or whatever you wanna call him
<crimsun> afaik Mark wasn't involved.
<Nafallo> ademan: thank mdz :-)
<ademan> thank you mdz :-)
<ademan> i thought it was a letter from mark, but i guess i was wrong lol
<ademan> either way, it's good iceweasel melted
<Nafallo> lol
<crimsun> it didn't melt
<crimsun> it's very much alive and kicking in Debian
<ademan> really?  i would have hoped other distros would follow suit
<LaserJock> I'm not sure that they didn't exactly
<LaserJock> I thought iceweasel was mostly a Debian thing
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> didn't dholbach have a holiday?
<ademan> you guys hear about the standardized packaging thing the fsf is pushing/developing?
<LaserJock> I think many of the Canonical people did
<crimsun> sistpoty: apologies for the delay on #77348; I didn't receive the bug email until this afternoon.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-01-04
<sistpoty> crimsun: no problem... nobody received bug mails (and I was not delayed in watching movies actually *g*)
<crimsun> sistpoty: 1ubuntu2 is available as of ~40 mins ago, which resolves it
<sistpoty> cool, thx!
<crimsun> sistpoty: you just need to rerun asoundconf set-default-card
* sistpoty upgrades
<crimsun> I wonder how evil it would be to parse /home and spit out a list of users that would need to execute that command.
<sistpoty> nice idea *g*
<Nafallo> crimsun: how can I tell if I need to run something? :-)
<crimsun> Nafallo: if you've ever run asoundconf set-default-card, you need to rerun it.
<Nafallo> I haven't :-)
<Nafallo> good
<LaserJock> heh, pbuilder login takes 11s in my vmware edgy on my intel imac
<nixternal> bah pbuilder
<LaserJock> it takes like 60s or so on my laptop at home :/
<crimsun> doesn't top the "takes 28 minutes to resolve build dependencies for vlc"
<Nafallo> omg
<LaserJock> uggg
<Nafallo> with 100% CPU during that time? :-)
<LaserJock> that's one you only want to do once
<crimsun> I -heart- test-building vlc.
<LaserJock> or actually none at all
<nixternal> pbuilder didn't do my christmas packages, so i am upset at it
<LaserJock> ummm
<nixternal> pbuilder-feisty build moms_present
<nixternal> didn't work :)
<nixternal> so i had to actually buy gifts :)
<LaserJock> it's awfully hard to blame pbuilder for not building PEKAC
<nixternal> ahh, you think you are funny and think that acronym would have gotten through ey ;p
<nixternal> ok, ok, i see how you play now
<nixternal> and it is <acronym>PEBKAC</acronym> btw
<crimsun> he means that if you removed the key and the chair, it would have worked.
<crimsun> =)
<nixternal> hahaha
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> so
<LaserJock> on the lighter side of things
<nixternal> sew buttons on your underwear
<LaserJock> I was chating from my parents house over christmas
<LaserJock> and my little brother walks in and reads some -motu
<nixternal> and now he is scarred for life?
<LaserJock> and he says "LaserJock? ... that just sounds like jockstrap to me" and walks out
<nixternal> it wasn't me
<nixternal> hahahahhaa
<Nafallo> lol
<nixternal> JockStrap, the new MOTU Mastah
<nixternal> shoot, my brother read mine as urinal so don't feel to bad
<nixternal> and now when he calls he asks for "The Urinal"
<LaserJock> I was actually trying to find some Laser Jock stickers to show you guys I'm not making it up
<LaserJock> there is one on one of our old Fedora machines
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> nixternal@ubuntu, how the hell do you get urinal out of that? i know my brother isn't the brightest bulb in the box, but still
<Nafallo> :-)
* Nafallo feel sorry for nixternals brothers stupidity ;-)
<nixternal> heh, even worse is how they say ubuntu and joke about it
<nixternal> now i know why kids do what they do to their families and make it on tv
<nixternal> one sec, let me go make some news :)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> i can see it now "32yo Chicago Wannabe Hacker Hacks Family Up With Ubuntu CDs Officials Say"
<Kamping_Kaiser> ROFL
<nixternal> i wonder what my prison nickname would be?
<LaserJock> nixternal: they better be Kubuntu CDs
<nixternal> oh no, I wouuld never damage a Kubuntu CD
<LaserJock> otherwise people might get the wrong impression ;-)
<Nafallo> :-)
<LaserJock> I wonder how much bandwidth Mirco Mller has, all his latest planet posts have like 3 or 4 ogg files
<nixternal> "32yo Wannabe Hacker Dubbed The HackKillah Escapes From Prison Officials Say" - reports just now coming in, black corvette spotted in and around the MOTU Mastah area in Nevada. Officials say be on the lookout as the suspect is Armed and Dangerous
<nixternal> armed with a box of ShipIts, a mouse and a keyboard
<Nafallo> with his finger on the enter-trigger for yet another upload...
<Nafallo> :-)
<nixternal> he definitely has been posting some interesting oggs too
<nixternal> muhehehe
<LaserJock> "The HackKillah"'s side kick, "JockStrap", is armed with several pistols and a Feisty pbuilder. Consider them armed and extremely nerdy
<Nafallo> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<nixternal> i wish someone would remove the Ubuntu Bugs from Bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<LaserJock> *sigh* if only I had any artistic ability whatsoever I'd do a MOTU comic
<nixternal> ya Ubugtu we know what that is already
<nixternal> heh, now a MOTU comic would be funny
<Nafallo> lol
<LaserJock> the Golden Ponies were fun, but need more visual appeal
<LaserJock> ;-)
<nixternal> ahh, the Golden Ponies
<Kamping_Kaiser> how is ichthux ubuntu bug xx1?
<Kamping_Kaiser> :/
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: it's also a bug for Ichthux
<nixternal> hey, don't talk bad about Ichthux in my present
<nixternal> s/present/presence
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: as well as lots of other derivatives/projects
<nixternal> jeesh
<nixternal> i say rm -rf that bug already
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, yes, but i would have thought here it defaults to 'bug in ubuntu', not 'bug  in otherdistro'
<nixternal> frame it and get it out of here
<nixternal> Bug #uno is nothing but a gigantic forums post now
* Kamping_Kaiser goes to find out what ichthux is
<nixternal> it is KDE done right :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah, hehee
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: it defaults to "bug in <whatever was last to add a task>"
<LaserJock> nixternal: heh, I wouldn't have put it that way ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, oh :|
<nixternal> or actually, KDE stalled at the moment until raphink gets his ball-and-chain
<nixternal> ya, I meant Kubuntu done right, for both, but KDE slipped
<nixternal> errr
<nixternal> Ubuntu
<nixternal> ok, im going to stick my head in a toilet. if im not back in 30 minutes call a plumber
<LaserJock> nixternal: look at what you did now
<Kamping_Kaiser> :|
<nixternal> hah
<Kamping_Kaiser> ^W does something different in xchat from irssi :|
<nixternal> lol
<Nafallo> lol
<nixternal> thought you wre going to window 12 ey
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, thought i was deleting a word
<Nafallo> ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P
<Nafallo> ALT != ^ :-)
<nixternal> err, ya ctrl not alt
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nafallo, you almost have a regex going there ;)
<nixternal> heh
<Nafallo> haha
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: did you find Ichthux?
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, i think so. found a .com
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> yeah, that's it
<Nafallo> oh. it's commercial ;-)
<LaserJock> yeah, just like Ubuntu
<LaserJock> :p
<Nafallo> :-)
* Kamping_Kaiser feels surounded by ichthux's atm.
<crimsun> somerville32: SRU uploaded.
<Nafallo> Kamping_Kaiser: not me :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nafallo, :)
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: surrounded?
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, i recognised names, every time i look at a distro it seems to have people i know from ubuntu. usually a largeish number
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: yeah, there are a lot of MOTUs and DDs involved with Ichthux to some extent or another
<LaserJock> and even occasionally some of those silly doc people
<LaserJock> ;-)
<crimsun> those crazy MOTUs. err
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<LaserJock> does that make me silly and crazy? :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, they're not a mutually exclusive
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<LaserJock> sure, but I wondered if it would mean being tossed out of deity status ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. out to work. have a good day all. should be back asking more anoying questions tonight ;)
<crimsun> Zeus wasn't deemed sane
<LaserJock> darn
<crimsun> so I see no reason why they're orgothonal
<LaserJock> cya Kamping_Kaiser 
<LaserJock> Etch hasn't been released yet, has it?
<somerville32> crimsun: Thanks
<crimsun> LaserJock: no.
<LaserJock> hmm, are they on the brink?
<LaserJock> seems like it was supposed to be in Dec.
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: i would look more towards fall of this year (fall == sept-dec)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> it was supposed to be dec 4
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: rpy is waiting for ubuntu-archive to let it in
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ah, thx
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock
<crimsun> 'night keescook 
<zul> ajmitch around?
<LaserJock> alrighty then, I'm going home
<zul> see you in a couple of minutes...we know that you love us
<LaserJock> heh
<Nafallo> :-)
<ryanakca> how do I fix http://pastebin.ca/303034 ? (it's only been happening since I've been using gpg-agent...)
<Nafallo> is anyone working on new xchat? :-)
<sistpoty> ryanakca: did you enter anything? because of "gpg: cancelled by user"
<ryanakca> nope
<sistpoty> ryanakca: can you enter your passphrase there?
<ryanakca> pinentry-qt doesn't even pop up...
<ryanakca> it runs right threw... doesn't give me a prompt or anything
<xerxas> sistpoty:  I have problems uploading to revu 
<xerxas> can you help me please ? 
<sistpoty> xerxas: sure
<xerxas> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<xerxas>   libtapioca-cil_0ubuntu1-1.dsc: 
<xerxas> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of libtapioca-cil_0ubuntu1-1.dsc
<sistpoty> ryanakca: how about deinstalling gpgagent?
<xerxas> and then I have a note that says I can use dcut 
<sistpoty> xerxas: give me a sec, I'll take a look at incoming
<sistpoty> xerxas: nope, revu doesn't accept dcut commands *g*
<xerxas> ok 
<sistpoty> xerxas: but it accepts rm -f commands from me on the shell *g*
<xerxas> :)
<sistpoty> xerxas: file deleted
<xerxas> but maybe you don't need to remove it ? but I don't see it on the webpage 
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> thanks 
<sistpoty> np...
<xerxas> sistpoty:  what happened ? so that I don't bother you again 
<sistpoty> xerxas: if the file was only half-uploaded, there is no other option than to ask a revu admin to remove the file
<xerxas> ok 
<sistpoty> xerxas: if the file is fully there in ftp incoming, you can simply put the other files of the upload there too, with the changes file last
<sistpoty> xerxas: (an upload is considered complete, if the changes file is there)
<xerxas> so if I have problems uploadnig with ftp , then I need to ask you to remove files ? 
<xerxas> ok 
<sistpoty> xerxas: not necessarily, but if your connection breaks in the middle of a file transfer yes
<sistpoty> xerxas: dput transfairs 4 files (.dsc, .diff.gz, .orig.tar.gz and finally .changes)
<xerxas> k
<xerxas> sistpoty:  currently I'm trying to upload 
<xerxas> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<xerxas>   libtapioca-cil_0ubuntu1-1.dsc: 
<xerxas> it's stuck here 
<xerxas> $ du -sh *dsc 
<xerxas> 4,0K    libtapioca-cil_0ubuntu1-1.dsc
<xerxas> I'm waiting for 2 minutes probably already 
<sistpoty> xerxas: the dsc looks like it's complete on the server side...
<sistpoty> xerxas: are you behind a firewall?
<xerxas> yep 
<xerxas> a nat routeur 
<xerxas> I use dput -P 
<sistpoty> hm...
<xerxas> router , routeur is in french :) 
<xerxas> hey ! 
<xerxas> done ! 
<xerxas> and the diff.gz: done also 
<xerxas> ok , uploaded ! :) 
<sistpoty> nice...
<xerxas> sistpoty:  did you change something ? 
<sistpoty> xerxas: no
<xerxas> do you have an idea why is it so long to start uploading the first file, and the it goes fast ?
<xerxas> s/the/then/
<sistpoty> xerxas: not really
<sistpoty> xerxas: the vsftpd log doesn't show anything unusual also
<xerxas> ok , nevermind, I don't upload to often on revu :) 
<xerxas> next try I'll add a -d 
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> might as well be a dns lookup, though I'm not really sure how the ftp server of tiber is configured
<xerxas> ok ok 
<xerxas> can be dns, right 
<xerxas> when things are slow, it's often a dns problem :) 
<sistpoty> hehe
<xerxas> my lintian report says I have .svn directories 
<xerxas> how do I re-upload when I corrected the problem ? 
<sistpoty> xerxas: simply dput again...
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> thx
<xerxas> 03:08 AM , gone sleep ! :)
<sistpoty> xerxas: every 10 minutes a cronjob runs, and moves valid uploads to revu, so incoming is cleared again
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> got it 
<sistpoty> (unless the upload is not valid, than the cronjob leaves some trash behind) 
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> thanks for everything 
<xerxas> bye ! 
<sistpoty> cya
<bddebian> laterz
<ryanakca> sistpoty: back, sorry, I was helping my mum out with her kubuntu live CD ;)
<ryanakca> sistpoty: ok, if I uninstall gpgagent, I can't use GPG in KMail / Kontact...
<sistpoty> ryanakca: you could try to use -us -uc as dpkg-buildpackage arguments, to not have your packages signed
<sistpoty> ryanakca: and then use debsign to sign the stuff you want to upload
<sistpoty> ryanakca: though it looks that somehow debsign is invoked there in the first place
<ryanakca> hmm... kk, I'll try that...
<ryanakca> oh?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: I'm not really familiar with gpgagent... doesn't make any problems for me at last :)
<ryanakca> and you're running it?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: I have it installed, but it doesn't look like I'm running it
<ryanakca> kk... dpkg-buildpackage -us and dpkg-buildpackage -uc both give me:
<ryanakca> dpkg-buildpackage: source package is solseek
<ryanakca> dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 0.8a-0ubuntu1
<ryanakca> dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Ryan Kavanagh <ryanakca@gmail.com>
<ryanakca> dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture i386
<ryanakca> dpkg-buildpackage: source version without epoch 0.8a-0ubuntu1
<ryanakca>  debian/rules clean
<ryanakca> test -x debian/rules
<ryanakca> test "`id -u`" = 0
<ryanakca> make: *** [testroot]  Error 1
<sistpoty> ryanakca: -rfakeroot?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: how did you build the package in the first place? with debuild?
<ryanakca> yeah
<sistpoty> ryanakca: you can simply pass dpkg-buildpackage arguments to debuild as well
<sistpoty> ryanakca: e.g. debuild -us -uc
<ryanakca> umm... why is it running threw the whole configure?
<ryanakca> and make... I just want to create the .dsc...
<crimsun> probably timestamp skew.
<crimsun> err, do you mean in the clean target?
<ryanakca> timestamp skew?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: debuild -S -us -uc?
<crimsun> obviously if you use ``debuild -us -uc'' it'll configure && make ...
<sistpoty> ryanakca: otherwise debuild will build a binary package
<ryanakca> ah... you learn something new every day :)
* ryanakca thought you meant use -us -uc instead of -S -sa :)
<sistpoty> ryanakca: nope... -us -> don't sign .dsc -uc -> don't sign changes file
<sistpoty> -S -> build source package -sa -> include orig.tar.gz
<sistpoty> (or the other way round)
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> so, debuild -us -uc -S -sa
<bddebian> no
<sistpoty> yep... or dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -us -uc 
<bddebian> yep?
<sistpoty> no?
<bddebian>  aren't -us -uc and -sa antithetical?
<crimsun> -us -uc are only signing-related
<bddebian> Yeah
<sistpoty> bddebian: no, I use dpkg-buildpackage that way quite often ;)
<ryanakca> kk, thanks... now I can stick something into pbuilder to warm up my CPU on this chilly winter night :)
<sistpoty> np
<bddebian> Doh, I always thought -sa was "sign ..." doh
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> bddebian: good one ;-)
<bddebian> Well I was actually thinking like sign all but OK ;-)
<crimsun> bddebian's kids have been putting the good stuff into his coffee again.
<Nafallo> crimsun: lol
<bddebian> :'-(
<Daller> Who do I contact when I have a driver (for a tablet) that I would like to get into universe, or even installed per default?
<Daller> BTW: It's GPL!
<Lathiat> Daller: is it a kernel driver or what?
<Daller> Not an in-kernel driver - No!
<Daller> See this:
<Daller> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TabletSetupWizardpen
<Daller> It's a ".so" driver to be placed in "/usr/lib/xorg/modules/input/"
<Daller> I have hundreds of people contacting me about the guide, and it would be great to be able to cut down, or even remove the "download and install" part...
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> file a wishlist bug against Xorg i guess
<Lathiat> or well you could probably package it independently
<Daller> Oh, great idea... I could be installed alongside xorg and all the other modules...
<Daller> Thx
<Daller> Is there a good guide to get started with packaging?
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<Daller> A file and a destination should be quite easy :D ?
<Daller> Well, Thx... I'm on my way to bed anyway...
<Daller> Well, now that I'm here, and you have links to both the wiki and the doc.facility - what exactly is the difference between the wiki, help.ubuntu.com and the doc.facility?
<LaserJock> zul: it was more than a few minutes
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<Hobbsee> night sistpoty 
<somerville32> Can we strongly encourage people to add links to package long descriptions? :)
<Hobbsee> somerville32: yes.  dont let it thru REVU without it
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> The script I uses extracts links from the long description so it helps make Feisty Changes in the UWN a whole lot easier :)
<somerville32> (as we have to hunt down the changelog)
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<rexbron> what is the policy on revu when two people package the same version of software?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: pick the better one?  or take the fixes, adn combine them?
<Hobbsee> dunno if it's happened before
<Hobbsee> seeing as it's explicitly said to check revu before making a new package
<rexbron> think is there are no fixes just a new upstream release
<rexbron> the only difference is that I used CDBS and he used the regular debhelper
<rexbron> *thing
<Hobbsee> rexbron: which is it?
<rexbron> murrine
<rexbron> ill get the upid
<Hobbsee> thanks
<rexbron> Hobbsee: 3953 for the latest (I am listed and andy.hunter@rogers.com). Mine is two behind it.
<rexbron> I am working with the ubuntu studio project and crimsun
<Hobbsee> rexbron: -murrine (0.40.1-0ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low is yours, then?
<rexbron> ya
<rexbron> the other one does not follow ubuntu versioning
<rexbron> unless it has been added to debian in the last 24 hours
<Hobbsee> you're correct there, and wrong release ,etc
* somerville32 is in the mood to package something non-python. :)
<somerville32> Actually, Hobbsee, want to help me finish pyNeighborhood?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: do you know if Matteo Giordano <ilmalteo@gmail.com> is on irc?
<rexbron> nope
<rexbron> He is not with Ubuntu Studio...
<Hobbsee> somerville32: not overly :P
<rexbron> afaik
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Ca'mon! We might learn something :D
<rexbron> learning is fun
<rexbron> and painful at times
<Hobbsee> rexbron: true.  i think i'll take yours, looking at this.  he's uploaded it hours later than you have, and clealry hasnt checked REVU first
<rexbron> Hobbsee: ok
<rexbron> glad I was able to get an official opinion on this
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Do I have to compress the changelog?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: i wouldnt bet on it being official :P
<Hobbsee> somerville32: sorry?
<rexbron> "official"
<somerville32> E: pyneighborhood: changelog-file-not-compressed changelog.Debian
<somerville32> E: pyneighborhood: changelog-file-not-compressed changelog
<somerville32> E: pyneighborhood: changelog-file-not-compressed Changelog
<bddebian> Yes, you have to compress them, I just ran into that :-(
<somerville32> Wait... am I suppose to use linda or lintian?
<bddebian> Both
<somerville32> Are some of the warnings permissible?
<bddebian> The NMU ones :-)
<somerville32> define: NMU
<bddebian> Non-Maintainer Upload
<somerville32> Please elaborate :)
<bddebian> If you don't have an error about NMU, don't worry about it :-)
<somerville32> W: pyneighborhood; The command /usr/bin/gksudo /usr/bin/pyneighborhood listed in a menu file does not exist.
<somerville32> Is that permissible?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: there you go :)
<bddebian> Hmm, possibly.  I'm not sure about that one
<rexbron> Hobbsee: thanks
<somerville32> What does this one mean? W: pyneighborhood; File /usr/lib/pyenighborhood/config.py contained in /usr/lib of Architecture: all package.
<rexbron> Hobbsee: Sugestions on how to version the condenced changelog?
<minghua> that mean the config.py file should go to /usr/share/ instead
<bddebian> somerville32: Try running lintian -i, it should give you clues
<rexbron> Hobbsee: also, Andrew is mentioned in the copyright file. I can add him else where if you deem it approprate
<Hobbsee> rexbron: i'd just do it in the changelog. as well *shrug*
<Hobbsee> sure
<rexbron> Hobbsee: My issue is with how to name it? reupload with all of the 0.31 stuff added to the 0.40.1 changelog?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: actually, you could probably put "new upstream version, original packaging by andrew mitchell" or something - i dont think you need to include the rest
<Hobbsee> oh, yeah
<Hobbsee>   * Added clean rule to remove config.guess and config.status <-- you probably want to keep that in
<rexbron> that is fixed
<Hobbsee> rexbron: hrm.  basically, leave the stuff that might be useful to people who look to hack on it in future, but axe the rest
<rexbron> ok
<Hobbsee> all you really need in there is "initial release, original packaging by..."
<somerville32> Do I need the dh_py* scripts if I'm not compiling the python source?
<lifeless> yes
* somerville32 wonders why
<lifeless> the dh_py scripts dont compile python source
<somerville32> What do they do?
<lifeless> python modules are compiled at install time
<somerville32> Right
<somerville32> Ok
<lifeless> they move things in to the right place and add the right postinst hooks etc to make it work
<somerville32> So if I don't have any python modules, do I need dh_py* scripts?
<lifeless> lets not play twenty questions ok
<lifeless> tell me what you have
<somerville32> I'm trying to package pyNeighborhood
<somerville32> It has a Makefile that compiles the source code and installs it using install
<somerville32> So I created a patch to disable compiling the source code
<somerville32> There are no modules
<lifeless> is the source C or .py ?
<somerville32> py
<lifeless> when you say there are no modules, what is there
<lifeless> gimme a clue
<somerville32> Just a bunch of py files in the top level of the package
<lifeless> and where are they installed 
<somerville32>         install -d $(DESTDIR)/$(PREFIX)/share/pyNeighborhood/src
<somerville32>         install --mode=644 *.py $(DESTDIR)/$(PREFIX)/share/pyNeighborhood/src
<lifeless> does it work when it installed ?
<somerville32> Yes.
<lifeless> via the package ?
<somerville32> Yes. I've installed my package and I can launch it from the menu
<lifeless> weird
<bddebian> Aye
<lifeless> well yes, you do have python modules
<lifeless> thats whats known as private modules, because no other python program can get at them
<lifeless> and IIRC python policy has a means to handle them too for the many python versions issue
<superuser> hello all
<somerville32> But there is no __init__.py file 
<lifeless> so in short, if you install .py files, you need dh_py* - or do what they do by hand - if you can figure that out
<lifeless> somerville32: so what ?
<bddebian> Hello superuser
<lifeless> somerville32: a __init__.py file makes a directory into a python package, nothing to do with the module-or-not status of .py files.
<superuser> bddebian i wanted to askk you how hurd was
<somerville32> Ok... so I'll just leave the dh_py* stuff
<bddebian> superuser: In here? :)
<superuser> bddebian that was where you told me you ran it :p
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> Well it's slow going as usual but there has finally been some gnumach work lately
<harrisony> i have a question about pbuilder everytime i create a package will it have to download and create an environment every time i create a package
<superuser> ah ok that is good i probably want to test it
<bddebian> harrisony: I don't quite understand your question
<lifeless> harrisony: no it wont
<lifeless> harrisony: it will cache
<rexbron> Hobbsee: new upload with changes is on its way (same version as before)
<Hobbsee> rexbron: yay :0
<rexbron> might take some time (for some reason REVU always does)
<Hobbsee> yeah, it only processes uploads every 5 min, iirc
<rexbron> that is understandable, its why my uploads are slower than normal (high load maybe)
<Hobbsee> dunno, shouldnt be.
<LaserJock> somerville32: in general if you run lintian -i on the .dsc and .deb it'll give you more diagnostic info
<rexbron> Hobbsee: Ok, its up on revu. If you would be so kind
<rexbron> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> rexbron: heya
<rexbron> Hobbsee: see above?
<rexbron> it would be much appreciated
<Hobbsee> rexbron: yep
<rexbron> thanks
<Hobbsee> rexbron: testbuilding
<rexbron> no issues I hope?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: looks good to me
<rexbron> yay
<rexbron> (I had some Ubuntu Studio people test it out no problem, so this is good)
<Hobbsee> rexbron: advocated. 
<Hobbsee> bddebian: poke
<rexbron> thanks Hobbsee, you made my evening!
<rexbron> and now for sleep
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> rexbron: i'm hoping someone will be around to give the second ack
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Yo
<Hobbsee> bddebian: did you want to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3956 ?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: it looks good to me
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Sure, I'll check it in the morning.  It's almost beddy bye time here :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: awww
<bddebian> alright, alright, I'm looking at it.. Sheesh :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> good bddebian :)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Hobbsee: This means you have to look at my pegsolitaire for me then ;-P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: do i now?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: where is it?
<bddebian> Should be on REVu
<bddebian> Hobbsee: OK, looks good to me.  Upload away :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: OK
<Hobbsee> bddebian: excellent!
* Hobbsee archives
<Hobbsee> rexbron: uploaded :)
<Hobbsee> rexbron: you should get an email, and it should go thru NEW sometime in the next millenium :P
* Hobbsee wants to try this otu, actually
* Hobbsee hums the "one less package on REVU" song
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Only about 1000000000 to go ;-P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> awww, drat
* Hobbsee tries again
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: can/did you email ubuntu-motu with a REVU: email?
<bddebian> Damn you two are slave drivers ;-P
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: nope.  damn.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: what do i put in it?
<Hobbsee> just "murrine is uploaded?"
<Hobbsee> done
<LaserJock> darn it, she left
<crimsun> arg
<crimsun> I should have asked for murrine to -not- be uploaded until I had reviewed it
<crimsun> guess that's what happens when people are overzealous to get their source package in
<bddebian> crimsun: Something wrong with it?
<crimsun> /usr/{s,}bin should not be in dirs
<bddebian> True but it's not problematic is it?
<crimsun> no, but neither is not having the licenses clarified, no?
<bddebian> clarified?
<crimsun> it's to be the default engine in UbuntuStudio, and I wanted to make sure everything was covered
<bddebian> Oh, I wasn't aware of that.  But from what I see, the license appears to be OK
<crimsun> ah, I see.
<crimsun> CREDITS should be added to docs.
<StevenK> crimsun: Ask an archive admin to kill it from NEW?
<crimsun> that was the remaining point, since I know we had issues with murrine's pedigree not being cited
<bddebian> :-(
<crimsun> StevenK: will do
<StevenK> And then lambast away on REVU? :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: Sorry man
* bddebian goes to bed
<crimsun> bddebian: not your fault, 'night
<nixternal> oh no, jmantha is here, everyone hide
<crimsun> nah, it's ok, it's just the laserjock imposter
<nixternal> whew
<nixternal> thought it was an invasion
<LaserJock> anybody happen to know what mozilla-config is?
<crimsun> probably pkgconfig script/info.
<harrisony> !info mozilla-config
<ubotu> Package mozilla-config does not exist in any distro I know
<LaserJock> I can't figure out which package would provide it
<crimsun> none, afaik
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<LaserJock> bah, gotta get to bed
<crimsun> right, so substitute firefox-config for mozilla-config
<LaserJock> I'll have to figure it out tomorrow
<LaserJock> h
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun> and b-d on firefox-dev
<LaserJock> k
<palski> Could someone sponsor the Bug #74862 and upload the debdiff to egdy-proposed?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74862 in kxdocker "[SRU]  kxdocker doesnt open in edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74862
<crimsun> uploaded, u-a subbed.
<crimsun> note the SRU versioning change
<palski> crimsun: thank you, and yes I forgot that new versioning style, sorry about that
<imbrandon> [3
<poningru_> whats the process of having a package imported from debian?
<StevenK> A sync
<poningru_> link?
<StevenK> If you're no MOTU, you can't do it anyway. Which package?
<poningru_> alpine
<tepsipakki> alpine is already in debian?
<StevenK> That doesn't even look to be in Debian.
<poningru_> my friend just uploaded it
<StevenK> I see that
<poningru_> he just wanted to help with getting it into ubuntu
<tepsipakki> where can it be found?
<tepsipakki> it's still buggy, btw :)
<StevenK> It has interesting dependancies.
<poningru_> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/alpine
<StevenK> Yes, I'm looking at that now.
<poningru_> the other one is http://packages.debian.org/unstable/otherosfs/ccd2iso
<tepsipakki> StevenK: interesting in what sense?
<StevenK> libc6 (>= 2.3.5-1) [not alpha, i386, ia64] , libc6 (>= 2.3.6-6) [i386] , libc6.1 (>= 2.3.5-1) [alpha, ia64] 
<tepsipakki> ah
<poningru_> blargh?
<poningru_> :)
<poningru_> this guy is the packager ^^^
<poningru_> paulproteus
<paulproteus> Hey now everybody now. (-:
<poningru_> StevenK, tepsipakki ^^
<tepsipakki> cool, I'll try to compile alpine on dapper
<paulproteus> Awesome.
<StevenK> Dapper!?
<tepsipakki> that's what we have
<tepsipakki> 220+ workstations
<StevenK> Give me a tick and I'll try it on Feisty.
* poningru_ will give it a whirl on edgy
<tepsipakki> (we = Helsinki University of Tech.)
<poningru_> woah nice
* StevenK is waiting for his madison-lite cache to update
* StevenK wonders if HUT was where Debconf5 was.
<StevenK> I think it was.
<tepsipakki> yep
<paulproteus> tepsipakki, FYI, Alpine is in alpha still, but I use it daily and I've had no problems with 0.81.
<StevenK> Why can I only get 8KB/s to mirror.pacific.net.au, I have no idea.
<tepsipakki> paulproteus: I tried 0.8 the day it got out, but had some issues with it..
<tepsipakki> minor, though
<paulproteus> 0.81 fixes some bugs I experienced (crashes on weird character set stuff, headers couldn't be ^k ^u'd).
<tepsipakki> but we have also Tru64, Solaris, MacOSX to take care of..
<StevenK> Tru64. *shiver*
<tepsipakki> heh
<tepsipakki> I'm a certified Tru64&Trucluster admin, mind you ;)
* StevenK twitches.
<tepsipakki> well, it's being used less and less
<poningru_> eek
<poningru_> crazy people
<tepsipakki> but one of our two general purpose shell-servers is a Tru64 machine (ES40), the other is a Solaris (V880)
<paulproteus> Nice, an ES40!
<tepsipakki> they can handle ~1000 users without much trouble
* paulproteus imagines running 'w' and seeing 1000 other dudes
<tepsipakki> normally around 800 each
<tepsipakki> unique id's
<poningru_> damn
<paulproteus> Well, it's way late, and I'm going to finally go to bed.
<paulproteus> A warning re: alpine: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=405350
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 405350 in alpine "alpine: implicit pointer conversions" [Important,Open]  
<tepsipakki> dapper pbuilder went fine
<tepsipakki> on alpine
<paulproteus> I haven't tried using it on e.g. amd64, so I'd appreciate some feedback on if that autogenerated bug is correct.
<paulproteus> tepsipakki, I had my fingers crossed. (-:
<StevenK> I'm about to build it on amd64
<tepsipakki> paulproteus: have you forwarded that upstream?
<paulproteus> tepsipakki, I did, but they didn't seem to care.
<paulproteus> That was only a day or two ago, so maybe they're going to work on it behind the scenes and just didn't get back to me.
<StevenK> Why, because sizeof(void *) == sizeof(int) on the arches they care about?
<tepsipakki> ah, there it was
<paulproteus> StevenK, Well, pine historically runs on every freaking thing on the planet, so I imagine they care about most architectures/OS setups.
<paulproteus> Maybe they use the function pointer in a way that works but the compiler doesn't see that it'll work.
<paulproteus> I don't know, I'm going to bed for now.  Good night, all! (-:
<siretart> *gulp* there are still ppl using pine and elm?
<StevenK> There's still people using Windows 95. Perhaps they're all masochists.
<StevenK> smtp.c:178: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
<StevenK> Oh, bozos.
* highvoltage has a friend that still uses MS-DOS
<StevenK> ia64, amd64 and ppc64 all have 8-byte pointers and 4-byte ints. Sigh.
<StevenK> This thing *really* needs a hard run under valgrind and gcc -pedantic
<StevenK> There's more lines of warnings than gcc calls.
<tepsipakki> heh
<tepsipakki> can a pkg.install -file have exclude-rules in it?
<StevenK> I don't think so, but the dh_install command line can.
<tepsipakki> yes, that I knew
<tepsipakki> darn
<tepsipakki> it would be cool
<Hobbsee> crimsun: OK
<crimsun> Hobbsee: there's no need to "stay away from REVUing further" :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: why?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: is there some sort of checklist, for all the required stuff?   and dont tell me debian maintainers guide :P
<crimsun> Hobbsee: because it's not your fault the packager didn't do his job
<Hobbsee> crimsun: it's my fault that i didnt know better to point it out though.
<crimsun> eh, none of us are perfect; we're all learning through it
<crimsun> except for maybe imbrandon, bddebian, and laserjock
<Hobbsee> bddebian was the second ack :P
<xerxas_> Hi all 
<xerxas_> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libtapioca-cil-0701032100/lintian
<xerxas_> the only thing I need to take into account is that I need to remove .svn directories, right ?
<crimsun> you could do that, certainly
<crimsun> you may also want to clean up debian/control
<crimsun> and tweak debian/changelog's version
<xerxas_> clean debian/control ? 
<crimsun> yes, as in check the build-dependencies
<crimsun> cdbs being listed twice, etc.
<xerxas_> oops 
<xerxas_> didn't saw that 
<crimsun> you may also wish to reformat debian/copyright; those lines are in excess of 72 characters for certain
<xerxas_> crimsun, the upstream url is more than 72 chars
<xerxas_> what should I do ? 
<Hobbsee> tinyurl it?
<xerxas_> it's an svn url 
<tepsipakki> how long do tinyurls work
<xerxas_> I mean my upstream url is "svn co http://[...] " 
<xerxas_> anyway, that should work with svn , but I don't want to have tinyurl for that package 
<Lutin> I though the limit was 80 char in copyright
<xerxas_> indeed, it seems to be 80
<xerxas_> crimsun, what do you mean by "tweak the debian/changelog's version" ? 
<xerxas_> add the svn suffix ? 
<Hobbsee> xerxas_: current version is wrong, it sounds like
<xerxas_> Hobbsee,  why ? 
<Hobbsee> libtapioca-cil (0ubuntu1-1) feisty; urgency=low
<Hobbsee> what's the upstream version?
<xerxas_> it's an svn version 
<xerxas_> (I'm gone, people are waiting for me for lunch) 
<crimsun> xerxas_: it's not the URL that matters; it's the upstream license text that will cause wrapping
<crimsun> xerxas_: if the svn version is truly 0, then you'd still want 0-0ubuntu1 (which looks -really- odd); I kinda doubt that's the case, though, so the standard practise is to use 0.svnYYYYMMDD-0ubuntu1 or something of that sort
<xerxas_> crimsun, ? 
<xerxas_> how do I change the version ? 
<xerxas_> directly within debian/changelog ? 
<xerxas_> or with dh_make ? 
<Hobbsee> xerxas_: run dch
<xerxas_> Hobbsee,  ahh ,right ! 
<xerxas_> thanks :)
<xerxas_> Hobbsee,  dch is only modifying debian/changelog ? 
<azeem> xerxas_: yes
<xerxas_> This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<xerxas_> an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;
<xerxas_> (expected libtapioca-cil_0.14.svn20070104.orig.tar.gz or tapioca-sharp-0.14.svn20070103-0ubuntu1.orig)
<xerxas_> continue anyway? (y/n)
<xerxas_> I must create the directory to have diffs ? 
<xerxas_> so I need to svn co , then find . -name ".svn" |xargs rm {} \; 
<xerxas_> then mv tapioca-sharp tapioca-sharp-0.14.svn20070103-0ubuntu1.orig
<xerxas_> is that right ? 
<xerxas_> can someone have a look at my package ?
<xerxas_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3955
<cypherbios> xerxas_: I recommend to remove the subversion control dirs, (aka .svn directories)
<cypherbios> xerxas_: it from original tarball, of course
<xerxas_> cypherbios,  it's already done 
<cypherbios> xerxas_: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libtapioca-cil-0701032100/lintian
<xerxas_> xerxas@xerxas-laptop:~/contrib/tapioca-sharp$ find . -name ".svn"
<xerxas_> xerxas@xerxas-laptop:~/contrib/tapioca-sharp$
<xerxas_> I don't understand then 
<xerxas_> that's right, yesterday I uploaded some .svn , but now, I think there aren't anymore any .svn directories, or I don't understand where it comes from
<cypherbios> xerxas_: try it
<cypherbios> xerxas_: find . -type d -iregex '.*\.svn$$'  -print | xargs rm -rf
<xerxas_> xerxas@xerxas-laptop:~/contrib/tapioca-sharp$ find . -type d -iregex '.*\.svn$$'
<xerxas_> xerxas@xerxas-laptop:~/contrib/tapioca-sharp$
<xerxas_> I don't master "find" as you do :) 
<xerxas_> what are those iregex ? 
<xerxas_> tar tvf libtapioca-cil_0.14.svn20070104.orig.tar.gz |grep \/\.svn
<xerxas_> I need to grep for '/.svn' since my version contains svn in the name 
<cypherbios> xerxas_: so try one directory uppon: find ... -type d -iregex '.*\.svn$$'  -print | xargs rm -rf
<cypherbios> ops
<xerxas_> .. 
<xerxas_> got it 
<cypherbios> xerxas_: yeah, exactly
<xerxas_> but anyway , I'm in the directory where all files are 
<xerxas_> I have nothing in .. 
<xerxas_> I mean , in the directory I am I have my source tree, my dsc, my orig.gz ... 
<cypherbios> xerxas_: another thing...
<cypherbios> xerxas_: what is the version of your package?
<xerxas_> cypherbios,  http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libtapioca-cil-0701040815/lintian
<xerxas_> we weren't looking at the correct lintian 
<xerxas_> cypherbios,  the version is 0.14.svn20070104-0ubuntu1
<cypherbios> xerxas_: oh, sure. You gave the old link :)
<xerxas_> ahh ok , I gave the wrong upid , ok :)
<cypherbios> xerxas_: ah, much better now :)
<xerxas_> :)
<xerxas_> cypherbios,  sth more ? 
<xerxas_> or are you currently looking at it ? 
<cypherbios> xerxas_: ah, sorry. I'm not an reviewer, I just taking a look for curiosity :)
<xerxas_> ok 
<xerxas_> some to review my package here ? 
<cypherbios> xerxas_: the Standard-Version on debian/control should be 3.7.2.2
<cypherbios> Standards-Version: 3.7.2.2
<xerxas_> cypherbios,  this standards-Version was generated by dh_make I think
<cypherbios> xerxas_: yes, but you need to change to 3.7.2.2
<xerxas_> ok , no problem 
<cypherbios> xerxas_: someone said it for me, bddebian or Hobbsee I think :)
* Hobbsee did
<cypherbios> Hobbsee: :)
<giskard> ciao
<xerxas_> Hi giskard  
<xerxas_> giskard,  I have a package that seems to work for tapioca-sharp 
<xerxas_> next step landell 
<giskard> xerxas, cool! 
<xerxas_> giskard,  I need to make tapioca-sharp reviewed 
<xerxas_> (giskard, happy new year and best wishes) 
<giskard> where is the package? (thank you, same to you :) )
<xerxas_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3961
<xerxas_> I have a bzr branch also in the telepathy team for tapioca-sharp 
<xerxas_> can someone review my package ? 
<xerxas_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3961
<bddebian> Heya gang
<xerxas_> Hi 
<xerxas_> bddebian,  you're a motu, right ? 
<bddebian> Some might debate that but sure :-)
<xerxas_> bddebian,  :) 
<xerxas_> could you review my package ?
<xerxas_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3961
<Lutin> xerxas_: I think b-ds are not all correct, you should check the mono packaging policy on alioth ;)
<xerxas_> b-ds ? 
<Lutin> xerxas_: build-dependancies
<xerxas_> ok 
<xerxas_> I think I followed the cli packaging policy 
<Lutin> I think you're also forgetting a depends: field (I think something like cli:Depends exists)
<xerxas_> but maybe I misread some stuff 
<Nafallo> siretart: ping transitional -extracodecs
<Lutin> xerxas_: and iirc debian/docs is useless as the docs you listed in are automagically packaged when using debhelper.mk in debian/rules
<mr_pouit> xerxas, I am not sure, but I think it should at least B-D on mono-gmcs (>= 1.1.8) | c-sharp-2.0-compiler, cli-common-dev (>= 0.4.4) ;)
<xerxas_> Lutin,  thanks for your comments 
<xerxas_> mr_pouit, you're not sure ? 
<Lutin> cli-common-dev (>= 0.4.0) according to the policy draft
<mr_pouit> xerxas, I re-read cli policy each time I need it ^^
<xerxas_> mr_pouit,  ok 
<xerxas_> xerxas@xerxas-laptop:/usr/lib/tapioca-sharp$ ls -l
<xerxas_> total 56
<xerxas_> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 41472 2007-01-04 14:20 INdT.Tapioca.dll
<xerxas_> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  7168 2007-01-04 14:20 NDesk.DBus.GLib.dll
<xerxas_> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   232 2007-01-04 14:20 NDesk.DBus.GLib.dll.config
<xerxas_> how do I set those file not executable ? 
<Lutin> xerxas_: see http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-packaging.html point 3.1.4 for the b-ds
<xerxas_> oops 
<xerxas_> it's written in the doc 
<Lutin> xerxas_: the doc also says you have to use some dh_cli stuff in rules iirc
<siretart> Nafallo: ?
<Lutin> xerxas_: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-appendix.html#s-cdbs-example
<Nafallo> siretart: ah. I think I will need some coffee :-)
<siretart> Nafallo: I just upgraded my ws remotley, it upgraded -extracodecs to -ffmpeg as expected
<siretart> Nafallo: we may now start to argue that users will loose the arts and the esd plugin
<Nafallo> siretart: yea. I forgot I have to upgrade to see the deps in synaptic :-)
<siretart> Nafallo: the thing is, that actually what I wanted, so it doesn't need to be installed where it's needed, and it's impossible to detect if it is
<Nafallo> yepp. I like it :-)
<siretart> Nafallo: so we have 2 options: ignoring the issue or adding -kde to kubuntu-desktop and -gnome to ubuntu-desktop
<siretart> I tend to ignore this for now, but I'm open for suggestions
<Nafallo> if totem-xine is standard for ubuntu-desktop we could do that, but it isn't :-P
<siretart> right
<siretart> but I think it is for kubuntu and xubuntu
<Nafallo> hmm, maybe a dep of totem-xine? :-)
<siretart> not totem, but stuff depending on xine
<siretart> like, say, amarok
<bddebian> xerxas_: So don't review it?
<xerxas_> bddebian,  not for now :)
<xerxas_> thanks anyway 
<bddebian> NP.  Apparently I'm a lousy reviewer anyway :-)
<Lutin> bddebian: if you have 5 min, could you review kayali ? :)
<xerxas_> bddebian,  :)
<jikanter> Is there a way to build a package locally without uploading?  when I use dh_builddeb it seems to upload automatically.
<xerxas_> ${cli:Depends} is a b-ds ? 
<Lutin> xerxas_: no, it's a Depends:
<xerxas_> yep 
<xerxas_> found it in an other package :)
<xerxas_> thanks, anyway 
<bddebian> Lutin: I still get all those permission errors :-(
<Lutin> bddebian: really ?
<Lutin> bddebian: weird... I chacked on my system and everything was fine
<bddebian> You ran linda on the .deb?
* Lutin checks if he actually uploaded the good version
<Lutin> bddebian: yep
<bddebian> Hmm
<Lutin> bddebian: no linda warinings here
<Lutin> (edgy system though)
<bddebian> What's the date?  I have Jan 2 here
<Lutin> bddebian: seems to be the same
<Lutin> I rebuild it to make sure it's ok on my box and then re-upload it
<Nafallo> it's Jan 4 today...
<Nafallo> :-P
<Lutin> Nafallo: I uploaded it two days ago, that makes sense :p
<Lutin> bddebian: should be ok now, I just checked the version I uploaded and it semmes to be ok
<Lutin> at least, no linda W: 
<bddebian> Lutin: OK
<bddebian> Lutin: Looks good, nice job
<Lutin> bddebian: thanks :)
<Lutin> bddebian: btw, gfaim was rejected by the archive-admins dur to some problems. I reuploaded it to revu, could you have a look at it to see if it's ok when you'll have some time ?
<bddebian> Lutin: Do you know why they rejected it?
<Lutin> bddebian: orig tarball was containing the binary and no license information in english (was french only)
<Lutin> and an issue with a copyright file, as I created a per-package copyright file which seems to be wrong  :)
<bddebian> ah
<Lutin> I commented it in the upload
<bddebian> OK
<Nafallo> is MoM stopped?
<nixternal> anyone have some time to do bug #77057
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77057 in smb4k "Please sync smb4k (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77057
<Nafallo> nixternal: what about it for us to do?
<bddebian> Nafallo: Several weeks ago
<Nafallo> bddebian: damn :-(
<geser> nixternal: ubuntu-archive needs some time to catch up after the holidays
<xerxas> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3966
<xerxas> can someone review that ?
<xerxas> please
<xerxas> bddebian:  you can review my package now 
<Nafallo> wave-look would be good to have reviewed... ;-)
<bddebian> xerxas: OK
<bddebian> Nafallo: So get reviewing ;-P
<xerxas> :)
<Nafallo> bddebian: some other day. I need to do those other first :-)
<Riddell> who runs UbuntuSt1ts?
<bddebian> No clue
<bddebian> Wow, I didn't know Riddell lowered himself enough to be in -motu? ;-P
<Riddell> bddebian: I've always been in -motu, I go anywhere that's important to Kubuntu
<bddebian> I'm just giving you a hard time :)
<somerville32> Riddell: Why da ya want to know? :)
<Riddell> somerville32: wanted to know what it did, but found out.  http://ubuntustats.homelinux.org/ubuntu-motu/
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> :)
<somerville32> Oh wow. I'm on the list of most active people.
<zorglu_> me too :)
<zorglu_> i dont get the 'lastdays' number tho
<somerville32> My nick is the most used word in x-devel, lol. crazy
<somerville32> Anyhows... 
* somerville32 hops to -offtopic
<bddebian> man, laserjock really is sick :-)
<bddebian> xerxas: Still a couple of linda/lintian warnings
<Riddell> zorglu_: how much talk there has been in each of the last 30 days
<zorglu_> Riddell: oh ok, so the 0 column being today
<zorglu_> thanks
<xerxas> bddebian:  do you have an idea how can I fix that ? 
<xerxas> I have a target install in debian/rules 
<LaserJock> morning MOTU people
<hub> am I the only to have problem update the feisty pbuilder because the vim package is *broken*?
<LaserJock> hmm, let me check
<hub> since yesterday
<hub> filed a launchpad bug
<LaserJock> I created a new feisty pbuilder last night and it went ok
<hub> I think installing the package for the first time works
<LaserJock> I'm updating my other feisty pbuilder right now to see
<LaserJock> and vim is in the list of packages to update
<hub> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vim/+bug/77726
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77726 in vim "can't upgrade vim" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<LaserJock> it should be easy to use an apt-cacher with pbuilder right?
<LaserJock> hub: mine updated but it did spit out a couple of warnings
<hub> mine didn't
<LaserJock> 4 lines like: dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory `/usr/share/man/ru.UTF-8/man1': Directory not empty
<LaserJock> all related to ru
<LaserJock> other then that it was a clean update
<hub> in my case it fsck up
<hub> is there somebody to specifically triage bugs in launchpad?
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
<LaserJock>  #ubuntu-bugs and sfflaw
<hub> bug that stay forever with any comment
<hub> from anybody
<hub> recreating the pbuilder
<hub> that should solve it
<white> Fujitsu: hi :)
<Fujitsu> Hi white.
<white> Fujitsu: are you subscribed to  
<white> debian-melb@taz.net.au
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<white> ah great, i was thinking about producing some nice when i am coming back to home2
<white> s/nice/noise/
<Fujitsu> When will you be back?
<white> 7. februrary
<white> *narf*
* Fujitsu groans upon sighting TiLP 2's (and its associated libraries') versionging.
<white> i wanna have a spellchecker for my irssi
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<white> Fujitsu: are you going to study this year at one of melb's unis?
<Fujitsu> No, this'll be another year of year 12; I've split my subjects over two years.
<jdong> Fujitsu: what's the status on Azureus? :)
<white> right, so i have one more year to convince you to come to la trobe :)
<jdong> I don't see anything in proposed or fiesty yet, I might be just retarded though
<Fujitsu> About to upload to Feisty, basically.
<jdong> ok
<Fujitsu> white: What course are you doing there?
<white> Fujitsu: Arts
<white> Fujitsu: like ancient history, ancient language(s) and kind of biblical history
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<white> :)
<Toadstool> heya everybody!
<Fujitsu> Hi Toadstool!
<Toadstool> hey Fujitsu 
<Lutin> heya Toadstool, how are you ?
<Toadstool> hi Lutin
<Toadstool> i'm alright, how are you guys doing?
<Lutin> alright too :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Toadstool> hi sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi Toadstool
<Lutin> packaging some stuff for feisty ;)
<Lutin> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi Lutin
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty, Toadstool
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<Toadstool> hey bddebian!
<Toadstool> Lutin: what packages are you working on?
<white> Fujitsu: isn't that something you want to do as well? :)
<Lutin> Toadstool: I'm working on kayali and libmlt
<Lutin> Toadstool: also gfaim, I'm currently checking if I can update it to use gtk2
<Fujitsu> white: Pardon?
<white> Fujitsu: Arts :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, not particularly. Not quite sure what I'm going to do :/
<Toadstool> Lutin: oh bddebian already advocated kayali :)
<Lutin> Toadstool: yep, and gfaim was uploaded bur rejected by the archive admins ^^
<Toadstool> why?
<Lutin> some issues with the licensing info, I just fixed them
<viciouslime> hi
<enyc> Bah!
<enyc> Somebody please tell me howto set me as the 'ssignee' of a bug....
<enyc> err 'assignee'
<enyc> I can't quite work this out...
<Nafallo> klick on the packagename
<Nafallo> click even
<viciouslime> i was wondering if someone might be able to help me? I have uploaded a package to revu and a comment was made with chnages required, i have made them and then gone to reupload. however, after doing so I received and e-mail saying "Rejected:
<viciouslime> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution."
<Lutin> nice, seems that the gtk1 funcs used in gfaim are 1:1 api-wise with gtk2 :)
<Fujitsu> viciouslime, seems like you uploaded to Ubuntu instead.
<Fujitsu> Make sure you run `dput revu X.dsc'
<viciouslime> lol oops, thank you!
<enyc> Nafallo: ok.. im at the +viewstatus page....... but I dont seee assignee change method
<Fujitsu> enyc, sounds like you're not logged in.
<Fujitsu> (and with that, I'm off to work)
<enyc> Fujitsu: I am logged in now ;-)
<enyc> Fujitsu: but I dont see howto set assignee
<Fujitsu> Go back to the bug overview page, and click on the package name againl
<Nafallo> enyc: do you got the privilegies to do so? :-)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, what privileges?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: not everyone can change those things... ubuntu-devs and the bugsquad can AFAIK
<enyc> Nafallo: drrrm.... well I set me as an assignee on a previous SRU request
<enyc> Nafallo: after sistpoty said that I should....
<Lutin> Toadstool: want to review some packages ? ;)
<Nafallo> hmm, then you probably should have :-P
<enyc> Nafallo: but I can't remember how I did that
<enyc> Nafallo: aaaah now I have a +editstatus link !
<Nafallo> enyc: +editstatus, as I was just about to write ;-)
<Toadstool> Lutin: I am taking a look at kayali right now but I can't promise you I'll advocate it or comment on it before tonight or tomorrow since I am at work and I don't have a feisty box here
<Lutin> Toadstool: thanks :)
<enyc> Nafallo: oh well now there are 3 bugs reported by me, and 1 bug confirmed by me....
<Nafallo> enyc: :-)
<enyc> Nafallo: though 2 of them are SRU proposals w/ patch for the first bug... lol
<enyc> hrrm what do I do now... in  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qpsmtpd/+bug/77485  anyway?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77485 in qpsmtpd "[SRU]  request: edgy:qpsmtpd fix for bug #72602" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<enyc> there are at least 3 "+1" 's given..... and the debdiff is there ready...
<enyc> since this doesnt need a complex upload prepared...
<joejaxx> Toadstool: do you know how i can find out if my gpg key has been added to revu already?
<chillywilly> is there a meta package or what not that will include everything that you need for a minimal debian-based (or ubuntu) system?
<sistpoty> joejaxx: what's your keyid, i can look it up
<joejaxx> chillywilly: ubuntu-minimal
<joejaxx> sistpoty: B6A4EB33
<chillywilly> what about for debian?
<joejaxx> chillywilly: i do not know for debian
<joejaxx> i will look
<sistpoty> joejaxx: yep, in revu's keyring
<Nafallo> chillywilly: packages absolutly needed are marked essential
<Nafallo> ubuntu-minimal isn't really needed stuff...
<chillywilly> is there a simple way I can search for "essential" packages?
<bddebian> grep-dctrl probably
<joejaxx> Nafallo: debootstrap pulls ubuntu-minimal does it not?
<Nafallo> joejaxx: yes. based on the script for the distro in question.
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> sistpoty: hmm that is interesting
<sistpoty> joejaxx: why?
<sistpoty> joejaxx: or better what's the interesting part ;)
<joejaxx> sistpoty: i wonder how that happened haha
<Lutin> could anyone there tell me what compile flags I should use with a gtk2 program that #include <gtk/gtk.h>
<Lutin> ?
<sistpoty> joejaxx: probably you joined ubuntu-universe-contributors on lp, and someone requested a keyring resync. 
<joejaxx> sistpoty: oh ok
<sistpoty> a keyring resync simply adds all keys from ubuntu-universe-contributors to revu's keyring
<joejaxx> sistpoty: oh ok
<geser> Lutin: afaik pkg-config --cflags gtk2.0 can tell you
<bddebian> Later gang
<Nafallo> bddebian: *hugs*
<sistpoty> cya bddebian
<Lutin> geser: that's it..I use pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0. the weird thing is that I have make errors with undefined references to GTK_TEXT, which is defined though :/
<Lutin> actually all the gtk_text stuff seems to be undefined ... weird
<chillywilly> which field in the control file would contain the word essential?
<Lutin> chillywilly: priority
<Lutin> chillywilly: but only a few core packages are marked as essential
<chillywilly> why isn't libc6 marked as "essential"?
<Lutin> I don't know the exact meaning of essential, can't say
<Toadstool> chillywilly: essential packages have a special field Essential: yes
<Lutin> uh ... that is really weird. using pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0, include <gtk/gtk.h>, gcc tells me that GTK_TEXT is an undeclared symbol ... what is that Oo
<Lutin> do you know what the GTK_ENABLE_BROKEN define means ?
<geser> Lutin: I would guess the source needs to be updated to use the current widgets
<Lutin> geser: no, thats not the point
<Lutin> it's 1:1 api-wise
<Lutin> but the gtktext.h header is not included unless I compile it with -DGTK_ENABLE_BROKEN
<Lutin> and I'd really like to know what it actually means =)
<geser> if you need to define GTK_ENABLE_BROKEN you are using some old parts
<Toadstool> Lutin: http://developer.gnome.org/dotplan/porting/ar01s09.html <-- Deprecation section
<Lutin> Toadstool, geser: ok, thanks
<Lutin> hum ... I see ^^. those funcs were in the 'deprecated' section of the gtk2.0 devel doc. didn't catch that
#ubuntu-motu 2007-01-05
<enyc> sistpoty: ok... what happens-next to bug 77485 ? There are more than 3 "+1" given....
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77485 in qpsmtpd "[SRU]  request: edgy:qpsmtpd fix for bug #72602" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77485
<sistpoty> enyc: get it uploaded and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<enyc> sistpoty: erm how do I do that // where is this documented? ;-)
<sistpoty> enyc: do you need a sponsor?
<enyc> sistpoty: I dont know!
<sistpoty> enyc: are you a motu yet?
<sistpoty> *g*
<enyc> sistpoty: no!
<enyc> sistpoty: Im confused ;-)
<sistpoty> enyc: then you need a sponsor who'll upload the package for you
<sistpoty> enyc: usual procedure is to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors or ping a motu of your choice
<sistpoty> enyc: but I can do the upload
<enyc> sistpoty: umm err arr oh... I thought that was for updating fiesty....
<enyc> sistpoty: I didnt see mention of sponsors in  SRU process
<sistpoty> enyc: any motu can to upload any -proposed or -updates pocket as well
<enyc> sistpoty: dont understand 'pocket' there
<sistpoty> enyc: feisty, edgy, dapper and so on are distributions... edgy-updates, edgy-proposed, dapper-updates and so on are pockets of that distribution
<sistpoty> enyc: it's just a naming convention
<enyc> sistpoty: right... so somewhere things get put for updates or proposed-updates
<enyc> sistpoty: is 'security' a pocket too ?
<sistpoty> enyc: yes... the distribution field in debian/changelog will determine the distribution and the pocket
<sistpoty> enyc: yes
<enyc> aaah I see
<sistpoty> enyc: at least I think these are called pockets, maybe they have yet another name *g*
<enyc> edgy-proposed
<enyc> heh
<enyc> ok
<enyc> right....
<enyc> hrrm well upload the debdiff'ed package to proposed for 77485 please ;-) ... Presumably you should not do this for 78005 until there are more +1's
<sistpoty> enyc: on it ;)
<sistpoty> enyc: uploaded, now please subscribe ubuntu-archive
<enyc> sistpoty: done...
<tsmithe> argh!
<tsmithe> pbuilder is dead
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/502/
<tsmithe> :(
<geser> how have you called pbuilder?
<tsmithe> geser, sudo pbuilder build somalist_0.1_source.changes
<geser> try again with the .dsc
<tsmithe> ah ok
<geser> pbuilder build [options]  .dsc-file
* tsmithe is tired ;)
<tsmithe> thanks
<zul> hey
<enyc> sistpoty: thankyou btw ;-)
<sistpoty> np
<sistpoty> hi zul
<zul> hey sistpoty how goes it?
<sistpoty> zul: so far so good... just writing my diploma thesis :/
<sistpoty> zul: how about you?
<zul> sistpoty: ok i guess just fixing some things
<crimsun> xerxas: yes?
<geser> is someone here using gchemutils?
<geser> I updated the package to gchemutils 0.7.4 and need someone to test them
<crimsun> url?
<geser> I doing a last pbuilder run and will put it then on a webspace
<crimsun> ok.
<geser> are amd64 packages ok for you?
<crimsun> pentium 233 here, so no. Sorry.
<crimsun> I'll gladly take the source packages and pbuild on a remote host.
<Nafallo> crimsun: 233MHz... are you kidding me? :-)
<crimsun> public university in a state that doesn't really value education...'nuff said
<Nafallo> indeed
* somerville32 runs a 333mhz
* Nafallo sits on 1.6GHz atm
<Hobbsee> Sysinfo for 'sarah': Linux 2.6.20-3-generic running KDE 3.5.5, CPU: GenuineIntel(R)CPUT2250@1.73GHz at 800 MHz (3459 bogomips), , RAM: 816/1510MB, 141 proc's, 35.54min up
* Hobbsee watches all your computers crumble into the dust :P
<geser> crimsun: http://members.ping.de/~mb/gchemutils/
<crimsun> geser: thanks
<geser> I needed to update to 0.7.4 because 0.6.3 needs an older libgoffice
<geser> the Debian packages use other package names than the current Ubuntu ones
<geser> I hope to get the conflict/replaces right
<somerville32> crimsun: I brought up the xchat thing in #ubuntu-devel today
<crimsun> somerville32: what was the consensus?
<somerville32> crimsun; A few people commented. Mdke wonders why we can't just have both.
<crimsun> it wouldn't make sense to me to have both xchat-gnome and xchat in main, really
<Nafallo> ubuntu / xubuntu?
<crimsun> the latter has superceded the former
<crimsun> what does x-g offer that x doesn't?
<somerville32> use of libnotify apparently
<Nafallo> better integration with gnome
<crimsun> hmph.
<somerville32> Which is really non-applicable to Xubuntu since we refuse to pull in gnome libs :)
* Nafallo use xchat though ;-)
<somerville32> me too
<crimsun> I'm still an irssi user despite sinning with xchat* and konversation.
<Nafallo> my current setup is screen irssi + proxy on the server and connecting to it with xchat :-)
<somerville32> I used to like konversation but xchat is a lot faster
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> wb bddebian
<bddebian> Thx sistpoty
<crimsun> hmm, it would nice if geser provided a transition package for gchemutils -> gcu-bin
<bddebian> It'd be nice if I had a brain too
<crimsun> who borrowed it?
<bddebian> Never had one :-(
<crimsun> that doesn't bode well for us mere mortals :p
<Nafallo> lol
<bddebian> Yeah right, I can't even review a package properly apparently :)
<somerville32> Thats ok
<somerville32> I can't seem to even make a proper python package :P
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> hi people
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> can someone explain where LugRadio got that "BEARD!" from? :-)
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> sistpoty: what are you doing up?
<LaserJock> and hi
<sistpoty> LaserJock: well, I'm about to go to bed... just building one last package and writing a little bit code for my thesis *g*
<sistpoty> oh, nice de.archive.ubuntu.com is down. ok, package building finished *g*
<Nafallo> sistpoty: we are in the same timezone IIRC ;-)
<sistpoty> utc +1
<Nafallo> yepp :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so when I try to open up firefox on a remote machine via X forwarding it opens on the local machine
<bddebian> Uhm, that's what x-forwarding does d00d :-)
<bddebian> Or do you mean it opens a local copy of FireFox?
<crimsun> he wants the other non-forwarding X forwarding. =)
<Nafallo> crimsun: ROTFL
<Nafallo> we need a quotebot! :-D
<sistpoty> as long as it's capable of displaying pr0n :P
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> should I file a bug? ;-)
<Nafallo> sistpoty: the bot must display pr0n? ;-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: no, firefox
<sistpoty> *g*
<Nafallo> so the bot must display firefox? :-P
<Nafallo> this becomes more and more complicated ;-)
<sistpoty> aaaaaaaAAAAAaaaaaaaAAA 
<sistpoty> *g*
<sistpoty> I would even write http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/AAAAAAAAA
* Nafallo laughs so he have to close his eyes
<LaserJock> bddebian: no, I it opens a local copy
<LaserJock> so I just vnc'd in and ran firefox
<Nafallo> LaserJock: maybe it thought that you where stupid that wanted to run an app that existed locally remotely and larted you :-)
<LaserJock> it's actually kinda disturbing in a wy
<LaserJock> *way
<Nafallo> I can imagine... not every day you get larted by your own computer :-)
<LaserJock> heh, happens more often then I'd like to admit ;-)
<Nafallo> ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: I know the feeling man.. :-)
* sistpoty goes to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<bddebian> Gnight sistpoty
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you up?
<crimsun> (that's a contentless ping)
<LaserJock> it sure is :-)
<LaserJock> well, virtually
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out if he uploaded an SRU for me
<crimsun> which?
<LaserJock> python-imaging for Main
<crimsun> got a bug #?
<LaserJock> bug 75021
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75021 in python-imaging "SRU: python-imaging missing dependencies (edgy)" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75021
<crimsun> LaserJock: according to http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-proposed/main/source/Sources.gz, no it hasn't.
<LaserJock> but since I can't see the unapproved queue I don't know if it's uploaded or not
* Fujitsu yawns.
<LaserJock> well, I know it's not in -proposed yet
<Fujitsu> Afternoon, everyone.
<crimsun> LaserJock: normally people paste the _source.changes file upon upload
<LaserJock> heh, normally
<LaserJock> if it was via email that would make sense
<LaserJock> but I just pinged him real quick on irc
<LaserJock> anyway, I'll just bug him when he's around, I imagine he's still on vacation
<crimsun> did you ask him specifically to upload?
<crimsun> if so, it would have been better to subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, I'll remember that next time ;-)
<LaserJock> it's been a while since I needed anything sponsored
<Amaranth> sorry, setting something up
<khaeru> Hullo?
* khaeru whistles
<khaeru> ...
* Fujitsu whistles back.
<khaeru> Yay
<khaeru> There *is* life in space
<khaeru> I have a question
<Fujitsu> A little, but not a whole lot at this time.
<Fujitsu> Go ahead.
<khaeru> I started using mpd (music player daemon) recently
<khaeru> There are zillions of clients
<khaeru> http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Clients
<khaeru> pygmy is in universe
<Fujitsu> I use it too :)
<khaeru> But it doesn't seem to be maintained any longer
<khaeru> http://pygmy.berlios.de/ last release seems to have been in March
<Fujitsu> OK, that's not tooooo long.
<khaeru> True
<khaeru> Hm, let me see if I can find the exact text
<khaeru> It's been forked to something called 'sonata'
<khaeru> Which is under more active development
<Fujitsu> Aha, OK.
<khaeru> http://sonata.berlios.de/
<khaeru> Still browsing history for the message
<khaeru> Anyway, I don't know who to bug about getting pygmy removed (which I guess doesn't matter) and sonata added
<Fujitsu> pygmy won't likely be removed for a long time (there's no real reason to remove it, yet)
<Fujitsu> I'll check if anybody is working on sonata packages in Debian. If not, I'll take a look at doing it.
<Fujitsu> Indeed, it's already in Debian.
<khaeru> Ah, delicious
<khaeru> Which makes it easier to bring to Ubuntu (I assume?)
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> I'll put in a sync request for it after I come back from locating food.
<khaeru> Sounds like a good idea... afk
<khaeru> Glorious cheese
<khaeru> Thanks for your help, Fujitsu
<khaeru> Good first experience in the #ubuntu* channels!
<tepsipakki> hmm, Christer Edwards is requesting for alltray to be included in feisty. It seems to be on REVU now
<davromaniak> If a MOTU read this message, can he review 2 packages : ccd2iso ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3795 ), and encadre-image ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3872 ), thank you very much
<crimsun> see, you have to embrace the grue in soyuz.
<crimsun> it makes things much more lively, because you never know how many times you'll need to upload source packages.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: hah.  i think you wanted that in -devel, too
<crimsun> my record is 4
<crimsun> no, it's a bit off-topic for devel ;)
<crimsun> or off-colour, perhaps
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> well...
* Fujitsu hugs poort soyuz.... then throws it off a cliff.
<Fujitsu> dak for ever!
<Fujitsu> *poor
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: can you confirm bug 78058 please, it builds fine in a feisty pbuilder
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 78058 in dvd-slideshow "Please sync dvd-slideshow (multiverse) from debian-multimedia" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78058
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: do you have time for another look at the 'om' merge request?
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: it's tagged as "todo" in my inbox.  
<tepsipakki> nice
* Hobbsee could be persuaded to do it now, however
<imbrandon> moins all
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: pleeease :)
<tepsipakki> no rush, honest
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: do you have a diff between the latest debian and latest ubuntu, please?
<tepsipakki> latest ubuntu being the on we have now?
<tepsipakki> +e
<Hobbsee> the one you want to upload, sorry
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<tepsipakki> well, that's it, basically
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<tepsipakki> let me check
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: that appears to be between the current ubuntu and current debian
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: how so?
<Hobbsee> diff -u om-0.2.0/debian/changelog om-0.2.0/debian/changelog
<Hobbsee> --- om-0.2.0/debian/changelog
<Hobbsee> +++ om-0.2.0/debian/changelog
<Hobbsee> @@ -1,5 +1,38 @@
<Hobbsee> -om (0.2.0-0ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
<Hobbsee> +om (0.2.0-2ubuntu1) unstable; urgency=low
<TheMuso> Bah! There goes that idea of using a feisty daily image.
<tepsipakki> well, I ditched the old ubuntu version
<TheMuso> alternative CD.
<tepsipakki> but maybe there should be feisty instead of unstable?
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: you should be diffing against unstable and feisty
<Hobbsee> well, that's the one i'm asking for, anyway :P
* TheMuso can't wait till he has a quota free Ubuntu mirror again.
<Hobbsee> :)
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: oh, now I get it
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, where'd your old one go?
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: the diff will be much smaller, of course :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Twas mirror.pacific.net.au, but WestNet decided to no longer make pipe data quota free.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I noticed that at work :(
<TheMuso> But their sponsored 3fl mirror is getting Ubuntu later this month, which is quota free for WestNet.
<Fujitsu> Is it?
<Fujitsu> Yay!
<TheMuso> Damn right.
<Fujitsu> I knew they were going to get Debian.
<TheMuso> You don't realise what you've got till its gone.
<Fujitsu> A full mirror, or just releases.?
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: yes :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: An apt repository.
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> I checked the forums a couple of days back; didn't see any mention of Ubuntu.
<TheMuso> Just waiting for pbuilder to fetch packages for a merge, 25 MB all up.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Which forums?
<Fujitsu> The 3FL ones.
<TheMuso> Ah.
<TheMuso> Well I emailed them the other day.
<TheMuso> We are planning to add the Ubuntu archive once we expand our mirror disk
<TheMuso> space later this month. We will update the news on the mirror page and
<TheMuso> in our forum when we have it mirrored.
<Fujitsu> :D
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> I wonder how frequently they'll update, though...
<TheMuso> Same.
<imbrandon> every 6 hours would be the normal for a ubuntu mirror
<TheMuso> Well I know the gentoo mirror is regularly updated.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Note that this is an Australian ISP, which has just revoked free PIPE access.... Normal doesn't apply here.
<imbrandon> haha yea
<Fujitsu> Admittedly, I'm on Optus, with no free traffic at all.
* TheMuso will likely switch to Internode when he moves.
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: ok, the new debdiff attached
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: yay :0
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: When I had quota free mirror access, I loved just using a mini netinstall CD for installs. Twas so quick and easy.
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: got the URL please?
<tepsipakki> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/om/+bug/76716
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76716 in om "Please sponsor om upload" [Undecided,Needs info]  
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, I do that anyway, though off-peak.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Lucky you.
<Fujitsu> 12/24 is good.
<TheMuso> I have almost used all off-peak here with feisty CD rsyncs.
<Hobbsee> thanks
<TheMuso> ah sweet. Its compiling now.
* Hobbsee fixes, and builds
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: done
* tepsipakki hugs Hobbsee gently
<TheMuso> tepsipakki: She is not always gentle when dealing with others, so don't be lulled into a false sense of security. :)
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee does hug people :)
* Fujitsu hasn't seen much of the pointy stick lately.
<tepsipakki> TheMuso: I'll try to remember that :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's because i havent been *here* much lately
<Q-FUNK> heh
* enyc coughs noisily
<Lutin> some knows what's the equivalent of gtk_text_freeze and gtk_text_thaw in gtk+ ?
<TeknoMatik> Hi all, i am beginer
<TeknoMatik> Please tell me, what i must know for join in development community?
<TeknoMatik> hay!
<_Enchained> TeknoMatik: read the topic ;) ?
<TeknoMatik> in #ubuntu-devel turn me to here
<_MMA_> READ: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<TeknoMatik> Me need other chanel???
<TeknoMatik> sorry :(
<_Enchained> A motu to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3969 ? (alltray)
<keescook> Fujitsu: vnc4 doesn't build on edgy/feisty.  did you test the debdiffs you made?  (Dapper is currently building for me)
<savek> hi
<cypher1> why is not firefox 2.0 backported to dapper ? one of the reason being it an LTS.
<Nafallo> why should it be?
<cypher1> i am updating my firefox in dapper.. still it is in firefox 1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.9-0ubuntu0.6.06
<cypher1> Nafallo: one main reason -- it is an LTS.. lot of ppl will be there for sometime
<Nafallo> cypher1: not a reason :-)
<Nafallo> cypher1: a reason not to upgrade to 2.0 though...
<cypher1> Nafallo: why not upgrade to 2.0 ?
<Nafallo> cypher1: it's probably a lot of new code, breakes ABI and isn't tested as well as the 1.5-series.
<Nafallo> new code = new bugs
<cypher1> Nafallo: sorry what is ABI ?
<Nafallo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_Binary_Interface
<cypher1> Nafallo: is it the fear of new bugs that we are not putting it in dapper ??
<cypher1> Nafallo: thanks for the link
<zul> yes and there ir probably a bunch of libraries as well that is affected by firefox
<davromaniak> If a MOTU read this message, can he review 2 packages please : ccd2iso ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3795 ), and encadre-image ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3872 ), thank you very much
<Nafallo> dapper is frozen and released for ages... we won't be adding non-trivial stuff unless we can't avoid it.
<cypher1> Nafallo: even though it is termed as LTS ?
<cypher1> Nafallo: sorry does LTS not cover availability of new versions ?
<Nafallo> cypher1: Long Time Support is just yet another reason to not break it in half after release :-)
<cypher1> Nafallo: sorry does LTS not cover availability of new versions ?
<Nafallo> no. it covers security and grave bugs.
<Nafallo> or rather fixes for those...
<cypher1> Nafallo: ok.. so if one wants new features and versions they have to leave LTS and go to upper releases
<Nafallo> yea. like the current devel-release that sometimes DO break your systems in half :-).
<cypher1> Nafallo: i agree..but still i am little upset.. especially i guess when higher versions of products like FF which is used by almost all is not backported
<Nafallo> there was a backport of that product when that team was new. peoples desktops broke hard :-P
<zul> cypher1: you could always download the binary from mozilla
<cypher1> Nafallo: oh..ok
<cypher1> zul: thanks will do
<cypher1> Nafallo: zul thanks for your times.. i am little clear now
<ogra> cypher1, how would you guarantee you dont intorduce new grave bugs if you upgrade to 2.0 ? ubuntu simply cant provde such a service with 16people in the distro team ...  if you can mobilize more manpower for the backports team that could change ;)
<cypher1> ogra: :)
<cypher1> ogra: definitely i can volunteer.. not sure of others though :D
<zul> ogra: we could work you to death, like the slaves on the roman galleys with the drums
<ogra> haha
<cypher1> :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<cypher1> hi bddebian 
<Nafallo> hi bddebian *hug*
<bddebian> Heya cypher1, Nafallo
<zul> ogra: heh back in line maggots ;)
* Nafallo looks at zul cracking that whip :-)
<cypher1> bye all
<Riddell> thanks for fixing basket Adri2000 
<Adri2000> no problem :)
<Riddell> Adri2000: if you have any questions about KDE packages #kubuntu-devel is always a good channel
<Adri2000> okay
<theCore> before I start to follow the SRU procedure, is there actually any chance that the fix, for the bug 57951, could be accepted?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<theCore> it is not really a high-impact bug, but just a really annoying bug for many users
<Nafallo> hmm
<geser> theCore: as the changes are really small, you should have a good chance (but motu-sru can see it otherwise)
<Lutin> Heya Toadstool, how are you doing ?
<theCore> geser: thanks
<joejaxx> Hello All
<All> Hi joejaxx
<joejaxx> AstralJava: LOL
<_Enchained> Hi
<jpatrick> _Enchained: hello
<_Enchained> bddebian: I've updated alltray and dvd95 on REVU if you want to look at... (or someone else...)
<cypher1> i have a doubt regarding merge/sync
<cypher1> the extracted source directory we get when we use grab-merge.sh, is it the latest debian source or latest ubuntu source ?
<Adri2000> cypher1: the merged source
<Adri2000> merged by MoM
<Adri2000> so you'll need to check that everything is ok and to fix conflicts if any
<bddebian> _Enchained: OK
<cypher1> Adri2000, so then what is the purpose of running merge-buildpackage ?
<_Enchained> bddebian: (I will just clean a bit the rules on alltray, like gpocentek said...)
<Adri2000> cypher1: where have you seen that?
<gpocentek> cypher1: the main interest (for me) is that it generates a correct source.changes
<cypher1> Adri2000, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing
<cypher1> Adri2000, Step Six
<gpocentek> hello BTW
<Adri2000> cypher1: ah yes, I don't use that
<Adri2000> cypher1: merge-buildpackage runs dpkg-buildpackage -S which creates the source package
<Adri2000> (I use debuild -S for that)
<Adri2000> what's important is to specify the latest ubuntu version
<Adri2000> with -v<version>
<Adri2000> to have a correct .changes file
<cypher1> Adri2000, but why do one need .changes, since we just upload a debdiff ?
<Adri2000> cypher1: MOTUs dput the .changes, so it must be correct, if your upload is sponsored by a MOTU, no it's not really important since the MOTU will regenerate the .changes file
<ogra> motus dont upload debdiffs, they upload the fixed packge, motu wannabees upload debdiffs ;)
<cypher1> Adri2000, ogra thanks :).. i really look forward to the tutorials to provide more insight into what and why one is doing something :)
<_Enchained> bddebian: alltray is updated at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3973 ;)
<cypher1> sorry i forgot, whom should i subscribe to a merge/sync request ?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> cypher1: If you are an MOTU, Ubuntu Archive.  If not, Ubuntu Universe Sponsors
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<LaserJock> bddebian: can you get to google.com ?
<cypher1> bddebian, it says hobbsee.kubuntu@gmail.com
<jpatrick> cypher1: probably Hobbsee|NotHere 's
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yep
<cypher1> can anyone please have a look at bug #78102
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 78102 in libflash "[Merge Request]  libflash 0.4.13-9 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78102
<cypher1> Adri2000, i need to run merge-buldpackage
<cypher1> Adri2000, sorry ignore that
<LaserJock> hmm
<nixternal> hmm
<LaserJock> well, my computer doesn't want to connect to google
<_Enchained> LaserJock: only google?
<LaserJock> in fact only www.google.com
<LaserJock> www.google.com/calendar works fine
<bddebian> weird
<LaserJock> but with www.google.com it tries to go to the uni's wifi
<_Enchained> I cannot help you, www.google.com redirect me on www.google.fr
<bddebian> internal DNS screwup :)
<LaserJock> _Enchained: heh, that worked
<stgraber> LaserJock: try : host www.google.com and have a look at the ips
<stgraber> LaserJock: it could be your DNS cache that does a bad job
<nixternal> LaserJock: sounds like my uni. they have a horrid caching system that screws up google.com for me as well. it sends me to the wifi login page at times
<nixternal> LaserJock: either keep trying to refresh, or nix the cookie/cache it is located and then cross your toes, and 3 fingers
<LaserJock> nixternal: well, I just switched from running on wifi to ethernet so perhaps that's it
<LaserJock> but every other site seems to work, oh well
<nixternal> ya, it is the same with me when im at school
<stgraber> here they have another solution, they simply have put a big proxy server, so no DNS problem but when the PROXY server is overloaded or crashed (it's a Windows one) nobody can access the net ... (and only port 80 is open ...)
<LaserJock> either that or I need to learn french ;-)
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> i wonder if you can use google to translate google
<stgraber> LaserJock: http://www.google.ch/webhp?hl=en
<stgraber> LaserJock: swiss google in english
<LaserJock> ch is swiss?
<joejaxx> does anyone know whether anything else depends on the openoffice.org local packages other than openoffice?
<stgraber> yes
<LaserJock> I would have thought China :-)
<stgraber> china = cn
<LaserJock> ah
<nixternal> ya, i wouldn't have never guessed ch as swiss either
<bddebian> Well de is German so keep laughing ;-P
<nixternal> everyone knows that
<stgraber> ch = confederation hlvtique = switzerland
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> Suuure they do
<stgraber> de = deutschland it's more logical I think
<LaserJock> stgraber: ah cool, good to know
<nixternal> everyone in my hood has a big DE sticker on their cars
<LaserJock> mhm
<Nafallo> se and sv is kind of strange when it comes to countrycode vs. i18n :-P
<joejaxx> anyone know?
<LaserJock> ah yeah, that's always kinda weird
<joejaxx> :P
<LaserJock> local or locale?
<joejaxx> locale sorry
<LaserJock> apt-cache rdepends is good for that, and I believe one of the language-* do
<joejaxx> i meant applications
<joejaxx> yes language-support
<joejaxx> but i am wondering if openo office is the other application that uses the OO.o locale packages
<ryanakca> LaserJock: NUN Meeting is on sunday at 1800UTC if you're still interested in comming
<joejaxx> s/other/only/g
<LaserJock> ryanakca: bad time for me, but if you poke me I'll read the log and let you know if I have anything to add to the discussion
<joejaxx> sort of like how multiple things use the wamerican dictionary
<ryanakca> kk
<LaserJock> joejaxx: rdepends isn't enough?
<joejaxx> it only lists language-support
<joejaxx> hmm
<geser> cypher1: libflash uploaded
<cypher1> geser, thanks !
<joejaxx> lol oh well time to rebuild 104 packages
<cypher1> geser, i guess you had uploaded firestarter also right
<Nafallo> I've uploaded firestarter today
<Nafallo> 1.0.3-1.3ubuntu2
<cypher1> Nafallo, ok thanks !.. i am trying to find the defect number for it
<cypher1> Nafallo, do you have it ?
<Nafallo> cypher1: defect number? bug it closes? I've already "fix commited" it :-)
<cypher1> Nafallo, ah thats why its not coming in the basic searches :) i will do the advanced search.. thanks
<Nafallo> + Closes: #48006
<cypher1> Nafallo, ok ..
<cypher1> can anyone please have a look at bug #78107
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 78107 in genpower "[Sync Request]  genpower-1.0.5-2 from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78107
<ernstp> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/transmission
<ernstp> and
<ernstp> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/linuxdcpp0.691
<ernstp> should be imported in ubuntu!
<LaserJock> ernstp: the aren't in Ubuntu at all?
<ernstp> No.
<Nafallo> !info transmission
<ubotu> Package transmission does not exist in any distro I know
<ernstp> I found linuxdcpp on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<ernstp> though.
<geser> cypher1: have you tried to build genpower in a feisty pbuilder?
<geser> cypher1: see also bug #75294
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75294 in genpower "Please sync genpower from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75294
<LaserJock> ernstp: ok, can you file bugs for those?
<cypher1> geser, no 
<ernstp> linuxdcpp is the only usable Direct Connect client for linux :-)
<ernstp> LaserJock: sure! launchpad, binary hin, group?
<ernstp> hint
<LaserJock> ernstp: just file it against Ubuntu as they don't exist yet
<Nafallo> ernstp: nope :-)
<cypher1> geser, hmm... let me try to pbuild genpower
<ernstp> LaserJock: should I assign it or tag it somehow?
<LaserJock> ernstp: nah, just report the bug numbers in here once they are filed
<geser> cypher1: you will get the same error as in bug 75294
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75294 in genpower "Please sync genpower from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75294
<cypher1> geser, the search i had done did not show that defect :( (because of rejected status )
<Nafallo> ernstp: dcgui+dctc :-)
<cypher1> geser, ok
<cypher1> geser, so it is not a sync ?
<geser> no, it doesn't make sense to sync it if it doesn't build without changes
<Nafallo> oowrite! :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, paint thinner + water = milky stuff :/
<ernstp> Nafallo: come on, dcgui doesn't work!
<geser> it needs a build-depends on sysvinit but I'm not sure if this is the right choice as Ubuntu uses upstart
<Nafallo> ernstp: it does :-)
<ernstp> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/78110
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 78110 in Ubuntu "Include transmission from Debian in Ubuntu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Nafallo> ernstp: mitt ex kr det. s jo ;-).
<zorglu_> !info deluge
<cypher1> geser, but that dependency was removed in an earlier ubuntu revision itself
<ubotu> Package deluge does not exist in any distro I know
<ernstp> Nafallo: jass.. buggigt skrp. testa linuxdcpp!
<ernstp> Nafallo: :-) let's keep it to english here, right?
<zorglu_> http://deluge-torrent.org/trac/wiki/Downloads <- ernstp meawhile you can try this one, it is similar
<ernstp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/78111
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 78111 in Ubuntu "Include linuxdcpp from Debian in Ubuntu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<geser> cypher1: build-depends != depends
<Nafallo> ernstp: hehe. maybe ;-)
<Nafallo> ernstp: not me who is going to use it so... ;-)
<zorglu_> and i have been fooled as they referenced ubuntu, but point to debian too :)
<geser> genpower needs a header file which is shipped in sysvinit
<ernstp> zorglu_: thanks! they've got a debian package? got a compiled install of transmission in the meantime
<ernstp> LaserJock: did you see my posts? 78110 and 78111
<LaserJock> yep, thanks
<cypher1> geser, thanks i got it now :)
<LaserJock> !info linuxdcpp
<ubotu> Package linuxdcpp does not exist in any distro I know
<ernstp> exists in Debian
<LaserJock> yeah, it's just odd it's not already in
<LaserJock> first upload was over a year ago
<ernstp> yeah, I think it was in dapper perhaps, but now it's gone
<ernstp> couldn't find anything about it in launchpad so..
<bddebian> It's not on the blacklisgt
<bddebian> Err blacklist even
<cypher1> geser, i am looking at the control file.. the change has happened only in "Package" section and not in "Source" section
<cypher1> geser, The "Source" section does not have any "build-depends"
<LaserJock> ernstp: that's a bit concerning, I wonder why it was removed
<ernstp> LaserJock: perhaps it wasn't as stable as it is now... 
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> is it good when the owner for the local pizza-place knows who I am when I call them? :-)
<bddebian> Of course :-)
<geser> cypher1: sysvinit is still required in Debian and doesn't need to be mentioned in b-d. if genpower doesn't any further b-d then b-d is missing
<torkel> Nafallo: at least you don't ask him "What do I want to eat today?" :-)
<Nafallo> torkel: lol
<cypher1> geser, ok let me try to reproduce the build error.. and then add a build-depends on sysvinit
<Nafallo> torkel: I did ask him if garlic would be good to add on it :-)
<Nafallo> he thought so ;-)
<torkel> Nafallo: :-)
<LaserJock> ernstp: ok, well they are on my todo list, I'll test build them, etc. and then request the sync if it's ok
<ernstp> LaserJock: we should add desktop-files for them if debian hasn't. I know upstream hasn't.
<Zic_> what time is it to USA ?
<LaserJock> Zic_: depends on what timezone
<Nafallo> Zic_: from where? :-P
<Nafallo> and where in the US? :-)
<Zic_> huhu :)
<LaserJock> Zic_: basically noon to 3:00pm
<Nafallo> they have like three timezones or so :-)
<Nafallo> russia have seven IIRC ;-)
<cypher1> is there any group photo of ubuntu-motu team ? ;)
<LaserJock> we have more if you include Hawaii and Alaska
<Zic_> LaserJock: I dont care for the timezone, just approximately
<Zic_> to see geeks xD
<Zic_> but, isn't the evening so ...
<Nafallo> cypher1: all have never been on the same place at the same time... :-)
<LaserJock> cypher1: I don't think there's ever been more then 5 MOTUs together at the same time
<LaserJock> at least if you don't count the core devs which are by default MOTUs
<cypher1> ok :-)
<Nafallo> LaserJock: you don't :-)
<cypher1> atleast there could have been a site which has pics of all the motu's in one place
<LaserJock> cypher1: that would be kinda cool, like a "Meet the MOTU" page
<Nafallo> launchpad.net :-P
<Nafallo> hackergotchis ;-)
<cypher1> LaserJock, yes
<LaserJock> well, I don't think they are all populated
<cypher1> Nafallo, i need to go to many webpages
<bddebian> Noooo
<Nafallo> baah. people are f*ing lazy ;-)
<Nafallo> cypher1: ask #launchpad to implement /~ubuntu-dev/+hackergotchis or something :-P
<cypher1> Nafallo, we can spend that time in something useful :-)
<Nafallo> we can. they can't ;-)
<bddebian> If we do that, you all will know how old and fat I am :-)
<cypher1> Nafallo, :)
<cypher1> bddebian, ha ha
<LaserJock> bddebian: you know that we are all old and fat :/
<Nafallo> we ain't ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Not as old as I am :-)
<LaserJock> I look it though ( Universe will do that to you) ;-)
<plugwash> and as ubuntu drifts further away from debian things will only get worse for you guys
<LaserJock> plugwash: depends, why might not drift too much
<LaserJock> s/why/we/
<LaserJock> the delta kinda goes up and down
<LaserJock> if we're good about sending things upstream we shouldn't have unmanageable drifting I don't think
<plugwash> i thought ubuntu had changed or were planning to change the boot process radically
<LaserJock> upstart
<plugwash> afaict thats going to break a lot of packages that assume that the numbering of thier init scripts means something with regard to what of the core software is already running
<ernstp> LaserJock: you added .desktop files to packages before?
<theCore> plugwash: upstart can use legacy boot scripts
<plugwash> theCore i know but afaict the timing of those legacy boot scripts with relation to the native upstart boot scripts is not defined
<plugwash> and if you use entirely legacy boot scripts then there is no point in using upstart in the first place
<LaserJock> ernstp: linuxdcpp is already in Ubuntu
<theCore> plugwash: not true 
<LaserJock> plugwash: well, we do push things upstream
<bddebian> Who does?
<LaserJock> there are times when we have large divergence, then those shrink when Debian either catches up or makes a similar change
<ernstp> LaserJock: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=linuxdcpp&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
<ernstp> LaserJock: not there...
<theCore> plugwash: upstart has features that works even with the legacy boot scripts
<plugwash> theCore well that is the impression i got from thier website anyway, until we actually see how distros implement upstart we won't know for sure but i can't see how you can radically reduce boot times (which is one of the main goals of upstart afaict) without breaking non distro boot scripts
<theCore> plugwash: again that is not true, the main goal of upstart is to ease the management of the boot scripts
<theCore> plugwash: reducing boot time is a side-effect 
<plugwash> btw when do ubuntu plan to actually replace init with upstart?
<LaserJock> well, upstart has been used for a while
<plugwash> its already in use as the default boot method?
<theCore> plugwash: Edgy uses upstart
<LaserJock> yes
<plugwash> hmm ok i didn't realise things were that far along already
<Nafallo> plugwash: 6.10 uses upstart
<plugwash> the upstart website certainly makes no mention of this fact
<LaserJock> I didn't know there was a website for it :-)
<Nafallo> does it have to? :-)
<plugwash> does edgy actually use upstart nativey or does it just use its compatibility interface?
<Nafallo> plugwash: some things are native.
<theCore> plugwash: an hybrid between the two
* Nafallo fires up the console
<ernstp> LaserJock: ah, the build deps are wrong on linuxdcpp!
<ernstp> it need pkg-config
<ernstp> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5381914/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.linuxdcpp_0.0.1.cvs20061208-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Nafallo> does Debian have that? or is a sync maybe? :-)
<ernstp> no, I don't think the linux package depends on pkg-config
<ernstp> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/linuxdcpp
<ernstp> build-depends
<Nafallo> that's what we have in feisty :-P
<LaserJock> that's strange
* Nafallo tries to pbuild it
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I wonder if the buildd had a momentary problem
<zorglu_> full moon
<ernstp> What do you mean? It need pkg-config and pkg-config is not in the build deps
<LaserJock> it is in the build deps
<ernstp> Perhaps debian has added pkg-config to build essentials or something...
<Nafallo> ernstp: my pbuilder installs pkg-config...
<LaserJock> the build log shows it installing pkg-config
<LaserJock> so either the package can't find it
<LaserJock> or something weird happened
<ernstp> uh right, so it is
<ernstp> I think it's a bug in the package then
<Nafallo> we'll see...
<Nafallo> I'm building now...
<plugwash> or it could be a fault with the buildd, i've seen it happen on normal debian systems that files are missing for no apparent reason and sometimes even removing and reinstalling the package doesn't seem to work 
<ernstp> on feisty?
<Nafallo> ernstp: yepp
<plugwash> and buildds see a LOT more installation and removal of packages than any normal debian system
<ernstp> it simply tries pkg-config --version, and then I'm not sure it it reads the exit status or what but it's not complicated version comparisons or anything
<Nafallo> ernstp: builds fine in my amd64 feisty pbuilder
<ernstp> ugh..
<LaserJock> Nafallo: I guess maybe we need to take it up with a archive admin then
<Nafallo> LaserJock: I just asked tfheen to retry it :-)
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure if that's it though
<LaserJock> if you look, it's been tried more then once
<LaserJock> the latest being 12-12
<ernstp> really wierd...
<LaserJock> it could be a buildd issue
<Nafallo> hmm. URL?
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/284865
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/264234
<LaserJock> those are 2 different builds
<LaserJock> for 2 different versions
<LaserJock> hmm, somebody seems to be having identity issues
<LaserJock> I think my wife my would have a diagnosis for that ;-)
* bddebian hides
<Zic_> xD
<Zic_> sorry :)
* enyc meeps
<ernstp> Well good luck with transmission and linuxdcpp!
<LaserJock> ernstp: hehe
<ernstp> I've made some more comments on the bugs now
<LaserJock> thanks for reporting those
<LaserJock> I might reject the linuxdcpp one at some point
<LaserJock> because we do have the source
<torkel> is it enough to add a debdiff to a bug or do I have to do something more to make sure someone picks it up and does an upload?
<LaserJock> but we'll follow up with it and see what happened
<LaserJock> torkel: for Universe packages subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team
<ernstp> LaserJock: reject it because it won't compile simply?
<torkel> LaserJock: before or after I add the debdiff?
<LaserJock> torkel: after
<torkel> LaserJock: done. Thanks!
<LaserJock> thank you for contributing
<Toadstool> heya everybody!
<ryanakca> how do I fix http://pastebin.ca/307140 ? 
<ScottK> Hello again.  Having survived the packaging experience once, I'm back with 3 more I just uploaded...
<ScottK> The package I am after getting into Feisty is mail-spf-perl http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3976.  It's a new package that's not in Debian yet.
<ScottK> Unfortunately, due to dependencies, it needed two more:
<ScottK> libnet-dns-resolver-programmable-perl http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3974 is another new package not yet in Debian.
<ScottK> libnetaddr-ip-perl http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3975 is in Debian, but very old.
<ScottK> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=329644
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 329644 in libnetaddr-ip-perl "libnetaddr-ip-perl: New upstream release" [Wishlist,Open]  
<theCore> is there MOTUs who would like relax and play to my weekly trivia? 
<ScottK> mail-spf-perl absolutely needs libnetaddr-ip-perl 4 to work.
<ScottK> So, if there are any MOTUs available to have a look, I would really appreciate a REVU.
<Fujitsu> Morning, Ubuntu-land.
<Adri2000> hi Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi Adri2000.
<Lutin> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey Lutin 
<Lutin> how are you ?
<Toadstool> i'm ok, you?
<Lutin> hehe, fine too
<Lutin> Toadstool: unfortunately back to school on monday ^^
<Toadstool> Lutin: I took a look at your package yesterday evening and the upstream tarball is really messy, I don't feel comfortable with advocating/uploading it :/
<Lutin> Toadstool: what kind of mess ?
<Toadstool> like the file permissions, the svn temporary files all around, and so on.
<Lutin> Toadstool: yeah, file perms are crappy in the src tarball
<Lutin> Toadstool: I'll bug the upstream author about it
<Toadstool> great :)
<Lutin> Toadstool: yeah, this svn file is weird too. it's the only one in the source ...
<Toadstool> Lutin: i am at work right now, kinda busy. can we talk about it tomorrow (or tonight if you're still awake :)?
<Lutin> Toadstool: of course, np :)
<bddebian> Later gang
<Nafallo> !info bum
<ubotu> bum: graphical runlevel editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.1.7-1 (edgy), package size 80 kB, installed size 524 kB
<Lutin> someone know if there's a way to have public-key authentication on bzr.debian.org ? (I know wrong chan but I think a bunch of people there is working on debian too )
#ubuntu-motu 2007-01-06
<geser> crimsun: hello
<geser> have you had time to test the new gnome-chemisty-utils packages?
<Fujitsu> geser, there are new ones? How was the goffice issue worked around?
<geser> Fujitsu: I had to use the development version
<Fujitsu> Of g-c-u?
<geser> Fujitsu: http://members.ping.de/~mb/gchemutils/
<geser> yes, g-c-u 0.7.4
<geser> I used the Debian packaging as a base
<Fujitsu> So that actually works? I thought it might.
<Fujitsu> How much work was it?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> what is Debian using?
<LaserJock> it's probably 0.6.3
<Fujitsu> Yep, it is.
<Fujitsu> gnome-chemistry-utils 	0.6.3-3 	0.4.1-0dl2ubuntu3
<Fujitsu> (Sid, Feisty versions respectively)
<geser> Fujitsu: not that much work after I figured out that the goffice problem is fixed in 0.7.x
<LaserJock> yeah
<geser> I had to rename the lib package from libgcu0 to libgcu-unstable0
<Fujitsu> Is the development branch stable enough?
<LaserJock> it's just that that is not stable software
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, like gnumeric.
<geser> and add the files for gcrystal to gcu-bin
<LaserJock> geser: gcrystal wasn't going into gcu-bin?
<geser> not in the Debian packaging
* Fujitsu looks at packaging tilp2.
<LaserJock> well
<geser> I added the files to gcu-bin
<rexbron> hey, what is the policy on packagine a shell script?
<LaserJock> we're probably going to release gchemutils 0.8 in mid Feb to early March
<LaserJock> rexbron: you need a policy for that? :-)
<rexbron> are there any docs that tell you what you have to do differently
<geser> before I upload it to feisty I wanted someone to test the package
<geser> I did a small test today but I'm not using it normally
<LaserJock> geser: I'm a tad hesitant to have it in
<LaserJock> but I can test it
<geser> LaserJock: the current g-c-u in feisty has unmet deps
<LaserJock> we can always use it as a placeholder/fallback if I can't get UVFes for goffice and gchemutils
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, haven't we already got the requisite goffice?
<LaserJock> also unstable
<Fujitsu> Ah, true.
<rexbron> LaserJock: Is there any documentation?
<LaserJock> we'll have stable goffice, gchemutils, and hopefully gchempaint at the time of 2.18's release
<LaserJock> rexbron: there's nothing special to do
<rexbron> hmm
<LaserJock> on the good side, gchemutils will be on an "Ubuntu friendly" schedule after that ;-)
<rexbron> LaserJock: I am calling the provided install script for the files. It goes into /usr/bin and /usr/share but the script need root privialges
<rexbron> *needs
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, finally :)
* Fujitsu notes we have 20 syncable science packages already.
<LaserJock> well, Ubuntu hadn't skipped ahead with goffice we'd be fine
<Fujitsu> But gnumeric is in main, so takes priority...
<LaserJock> well, considering how many bugs we've gotten from using the latest crack there ...
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty 
<Fujitsu> (though it does have quite a number of nice features)
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> yep
<Fujitsu> Hi sistpoty.
<sistpoty> and hi Fujitsu
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: the gchemutils author also works quite a bit on goffice/gnumeric
<LaserJock> he's pretty cool
<geser> LaserJock: so how should we proceed with g-c-u?
<geser> fix the current unmet deps?
<LaserJock> geser: well, gimme your package
<LaserJock> I'll test it and talk it over with the author
<geser> http://members.ping.de/~mb/gchemutils/
<LaserJock> he was previously wary of putting 0.7 in any repos
<geser> if you need i386 you have to run it through a pbuilder
<LaserJock> as it's still unstable software
<LaserJock> shesh, and I'm fresh out of amd64 ;-)
<geser> g-c-u 0.6 depends on libgoffice-1 which isn't in Ubuntu anymore
<LaserJock> I'm very aware of that :-)
<LaserJock> I was planning on putting libgoffice-1 back in
<LaserJock> but I think it's not worth it for one package
<LaserJock> I think we're better off with 0.7 or hopefully 0.8
<geser> btw gchempaint waits on libgcu-dev
<LaserJock> besides, 0.7 has some of my code in it
<LaserJock> I can't let that not be in the repos ;-)
<LaserJock> geser: what version of gchempaint is it?
<geser> gchempaint 0.6.6-2
<LaserJock> well, we need to do something with gchemutils anyway, our version is almost 2 years old
<LaserJock> we should also package up bodr too
<Fujitsu> What's bodr?
<LaserJock> Blue Obelisk Data Repository
<LaserJock> it's a repo of chemical data
<LaserJock> it's fairly new
<LaserJock> but a fair amount of chemistry packages are starting to use it
<LaserJock> including Kalzium and gchemutils
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> No Debian package/ITP?
<LaserJock> there was one in the works
<LaserJock> Daniel Leidert was working on it
<Fujitsu> But is no longer?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I think there was a snag somewhere along the line
<LaserJock> geser: it seems to build and work ok
<LaserJock> geser: but more needs to be done to de"unstable"ize it
<LaserJock> geser: the names of the binaries have -unstable on them still
<geser> do you know how to get rid of it?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it'll take a patch
<LaserJock> there is a line in the .cc of each of the apps
<LaserJock> geser: ok, so I think I should ask the author first before we put it in the repos (since we can't take it back later) since I know he had reservations about it before
<geser> will wait on your answer
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> thanks for the work, btw
<geser> I will try to get the unstable removed without breaking it
<geser> it's also used in dir names and the lib itself :(
<geser> that will make the diff larger
<nixternal> any open merges that are available for a rookie to work on?
<LaserJock> well, I think he has a way of doing it
<LaserJock> I can ask him about that too
<LaserJock> nixternal: just close your eyes and point
<nixternal> doing that now
<nixternal> ;p
<nixternal> wait, i do that all the time, everytime i hit the keyboard
<geser> nixternal: before you begin check if a sync request was filed
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> and if possible i will request one as well
<geser> there are several packages waiting for a sync
<joejaxx> why is there not a #ubuntu-security
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> i just noticed that
<Nafallo> joejaxx: with two people? ;-)
<joejaxx> ?
<joejaxx> lol
<geser> nixternal: an easy one: tendra ; check if it builds in feisty pbuilder and file a sync request then
<joejaxx> Nafallo: there has to be more than two people concerned with security on ubuntu
<nixternal> i will take a look at that
<nixternal> thanks geser 
<Nafallo> joejaxx: where? :-)
<Nafallo> joejaxx: pitti and keescook :-)
<sistpoty> anyone working on aqsis merge?
* sistpoty grabs aqsis
* joejaxx looks around motu
<joejaxx> Nafallo: :P
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, the two Nafallo mentioned are the two that are concerned with security in Ubuntu, although some MOTUs will work on security updates for universe packages (for example, I just backported a security fix for vnc4)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: nice :-)
<Nafallo> I did some security work when I started.
<Fujitsu> That makes my second security fix :P
<Nafallo> at some point I should go back to doing that I guess...
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yes but i mean there is not a channel for it? ie more people interested in it
<Fujitsu> There's no real reason for there to be a channel...
<joejaxx> that is saddening
<LaserJock> I should hope not
<LaserJock> if we had to have a hug team for security it'd make me nervous
<LaserJock> *huge
<joejaxx> well i did not mean necessarily a team
<LaserJock> we have a hug team ;-)
<Nafallo> LaserJock: hugs! :-D
<joejaxx> but the same way how people who are not motu are in #u-motu
* Nafallo hugs LaserJock 
<joejaxx> and people who are in #u-kernel
<joejaxx> that i what i really mean
<LaserJock> well, but the channels are primarily designed for team communication
<joejaxx> yeah that is true
<Nafallo> joejaxx: security are often more complicated then packaging in general :-)
<Fujitsu> I think a universe security team is needed, otherwise bugs don't get seen for 7 months (like the vnc4 one). One of the security team sees a security bug, then ignores it 'cause it's in universe, and nothing ever gets done because nobody is notified.
<LaserJock> yep
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: we have ubuntu-cve
<Nafallo> just have to look at it now and again :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Fujitsu> Not everything gets a CVE, does it?
<LaserJock> but a team would be nice, to get people interested in helping out
<sistpoty> hm... I guess we could really need a universe-police, the motu-security squat :)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: most things we care to backport patches for does :-)
<joejaxx> sistpoty: :P :)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, true.
<Nafallo> sistpoty: motu-swat team :-D
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> I'd like to see MOTU Security and MOTU QA teams get going
<sistpoty> LaserJock: +1
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I've been thinking a little bit about qa as well... ;)
<Nafallo> motu-swat. everything else you have to read up what it is... like greyskull :-)
<joejaxx> yay 
* joejaxx is a catalyst
<joejaxx> lol
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, same.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I guess it might be good to know about which packages are ubuntu maintained at first :)
<sistpoty> and then see, which are still actively maintained *g*
* Nafallo found mplayer being in bad shape security-wise :-/
<sistpoty> Nafallo: don't fear people away from motu-swat :P
* sistpoty wouldn't want to touch mplayer
<LaserJock> I was trying to figure out the other day how we could create a list of Debian RC/high severity bugs that have been fixed since the version Ubuntu has
<Fujitsu> It would be nice to have a team which was bug contact for Ubuntu-only packages, so we could get a nice list.
<Nafallo> sistpoty: I would probably be dumb enough to join myself :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, that shouldn't be too difficult. There's a list of RC bugs somewhere, which can be processed fairly easily...
<Nafallo> LaserJock: ubuntu-cve has that :-)
<Fujitsu> In fact, I think MoM creates such a list.
<Nafallo> ah no.
<Nafallo> not RC/high
<Nafallo> dooh
<LaserJock> well, I want to have say an RC list, a high list, a normal list, etc.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: would that be useful. I already are bugcontact for my packages :-P
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, but quite a number of maintainers seem to have wandered off.
<LaserJock> we also need regularly updated lists of unmet deps and FTBFS
<sistpoty> I tried to do that once, but LP didn't let me *g*
<sistpoty> (the bug contact thingy)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, we do it for science.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: right. I do from time to time :-/
<Fujitsu> Did the scheduled rebuild test ever occur?>
<Fujitsu> Or is Soyuz still incapable?
<LaserJock> then we need to figure out what kind of upgrade testing we want to do
<sistpoty> hm... I guess we should focus on merges first, to get these done ASAP, and then look for FTBFS/unmetdeps
<geser> it would be good it the sync request get processed soon
<geser> so it gets easier to spot packages which still need merging
<Fujitsu> geser, yep.
* Fujitsu groans.
<Nafallo> and MoM turned on...
<sistpoty> yay... when's the next archive-admin day?
<Nafallo> dooh. that got kinky...
<sistpoty> monday?
<Nafallo> tuesday and thursday, no?
<Fujitsu> Why oh why did I upload azureus... It's now got my name next to it for merging... :S
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: haha
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, Tue/Fri, I thought.
<keescook> for universe security work, I'd love to see a motu team.
<keescook> then I could subscribe them to the security bugs for universe packages; right now they're hard to filter for
<Fujitsu> keescook, good to hear :)
<Fujitsu> keescook, precisely my complaint.
<Nafallo> keescook: hi! :-)
<sistpoty> hi keescook btw.
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-{motu,universe}-security?
<Nafallo> keescook: do you know if pitti has plans to integrate ubuntu-cve with malone or something? I found some textfile in his ~ :-)
<sistpoty> any volunteers for ubuntu-swat?
<keescook> Hi Nafallo sistpoty!  (you guys lit up my irc hilighting with all the security chat)  :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<Nafallo> keescook: haha
<Nafallo> sistpoty: yes
<keescook> Nafallo: yeah, ubuntu-cve will eventually merge with malone, but there are some features in malone we're waiting for still
<Nafallo> sistpoty: I can even own it :-P
<Nafallo> keescook: thought so. that would rock :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: great, please do :)
<keescook> yeah, I'll start getting some _really_ crazy karma then.  LP doesn't give credit for uploads.  :)
* Nafallo looks for "create team"
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> keescook: haha
<keescook> I think new motu teams probably should get discussed at the motu meetings, but as for the basic concept, I'm all for it.
<Fujitsu> keescook, it's meant to at some point in the future, AFAIK.
<Adri2000> how can I pbuild a package which build depends on a package that isn't yet in the repo but I have on my hard disk?
<Nafallo> should I create it now or hold off? :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: go for it, I'll join in then ;)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, go ahead.
<keescook> Adri2000: I don't use pbuild (I use schroot/sbuild with lvm snapshots) but I'd guess you'd need to either make yourself a repo your pbuilder pulls from, or temporarily add it to your chroot
<LaserJock> we should take it to the list afterward though
<Fujitsu> Adri2000, I use `pbuilder login', then copy the stuff in.
<keescook> Nafallo: I'd bring it up on the motu mailing list; I'll be happy to chime in on it too.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yep
<sistpoty> always those productive friday nights :)
<keescook> cool, I can go through all the outstanding security bugs and subscribe the new team.  :)
<keescook> stuff on my personal wishlist is clamav and wordpress right now.
<Fujitsu> It would be really nice to not have flaws like #77383 sitting around for 7 months...
<keescook> the clamav backport isn't so simple.  :(  dapper's fix just plain doesn't work...
<joejaxx> Nafallo: :D
<Nafallo> keescook: I've done wordpress before I think :-)
<keescook> Fujitsu: yeah, I agree.  I wish I could keep up with all of them.
<joejaxx> Nafallo: see what discussion brings about :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: you realize what this means though, don't you?
<keescook> Nafallo: cool; I looked at the patches for 2.0.6, they look sane and mostly small.
<Fujitsu> If MOTU can keep track of such flaws, they'll be able to be fixed much more quickly.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i hope something not bad lol
<LaserJock> joejaxx: you have to help
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok that is not a problem
<joejaxx> :)
<keescook> Fujitsu: btw, I'm waiting on the edgy sparc build, and then I'll publish the vnc4 updates.  Thanks again for getting that.  :)
<Fujitsu> No problem!
<Nafallo> sistpoty: gaah. we need an emblem :-P
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: stupid question maybe, but in the pbuilder where are located the files that are outside the chroot?
<sistpoty> Nafallo: maybe s.th. with a shield?
<Fujitsu> Adri2000, you have to copy them from the outside.
<Nafallo> let's go find some shields :-)
<keescook> Nafallo: the ubuntu-dev is the MotU shield, so use the MotU sword now.
<keescook> that crazy heman sword.
<Nafallo> keescook: hehe. nice :-)
<sistpoty> great idea :)
* Nafallo googles
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: how? :s
<Fujitsu> Adri2000, you'll note that it gives you a path once you run pbuilder login.
<Fujitsu> Copy the .debs and the requisite sources to that path, and they'll magically appear in the chroot.
<Fujitsu> keescook, very good idea :P
<joejaxx> lol the heman sword
<keescook> heh.  or maybe his axe?  dunno
<Fujitsu> What's the team called, Nafallo?
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: ah yes, magic! thanks
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> motu-swat.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: motu-swat :-)
<Fujitsu> No problem, Adri2000.
<sistpoty> cool, I'm a member already :)
<joejaxx> Nafallo: nice
<Nafallo> sistpoty: hehe ;-)
<Fujitsu> It's even got a bug subscribed now!
<joejaxx> Nafallo: do you have to be motu to join?
<LaserJock> boy, aren't you guys l33t ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, not in my opinion.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: ok
<Nafallo> joejaxx: not in my opinion either :-)
<joejaxx> i just wanted to ask before i hit the join team link
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I started MOTU Science before I was a MOTU ;-)
<joejaxx> ;)
<_MMA_> Yet another project for joejaxx. ;)
<Fujitsu> Hrm, why is MOTU-Media's name ubuntu-motu?
<joejaxx> _MMA_: LOL
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: is it? :-)
<Fujitsu> (that being one of the three MOTU Media teams)
<Fujitsu> Ah, MOTU-Media was automagically created; who know why it has such a strange name.
<LaserJock> our teams are kinda messy
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yeah.
<Nafallo> ubuntu-qa? :-)
<Fujitsu> We need a standard... Some things are motusomething (like motuscience), others are motu-something (ie. motu-sru), others skip the motu entirely.
<Nafallo> what now :-P
<LaserJock> some are ubuntu-
<bddebian> motu-crack
<Nafallo> aha :-P
<LaserJock> bddebian's on top of that one
<Nafallo> bddebian: you have your own team now? ;-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<geser> should motu-swat be subscribed to bug #72921?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72921 in php4 "Several unfixed CVEs for php4 in Ubuntu Dapper and Edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/72921
<Nafallo> geser: yes :-)
<Fujitsu> (uncommonproglang is an example of a MOTU team with no motu)
<Fujitsu> geser, I believe so.
<bddebian> Nafallo: Yeah, 3 people too.  Me, Myself, and I ;-P
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: sorry
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: my fault *g*
<Nafallo> bddebian: *ASG* *hugs*
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, yeah, I noted it was owned by you.
* Fujitsu gets out the whip.
<bddebian> ASG?
* sistpoty hides
<Nafallo> bddebian: swedish for ROTFL ;-)
* Fujitsu calls in the Hobbsee.
<bddebian> Ahh :_)
<Fujitsu> Brb, lunch.
<keescook> Fujitsu: bleh.  vnc4 failed on sparc in edgy.  *sigh*  I'll take a look at it later, I gotta run.
<Nafallo> keescook: :-)
<keescook> Nafallo: I gotta finished building my bookshelves.  :)  cya folks
<Nafallo> keescook: nice talking to you :-)
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> ubuntu-dev, ubuntumembers :-)
<sistpoty> cya keescook
<Nafallo> things ain't consistant ;-)
<sistpoty> hm... nethack has some nice graphics for logos :)
<sistpoty> or rather falconseye
<Fujitsu> Bye, keescook.
<Fujitsu> You can rename teams, can't you?
<Nafallo> sistpoty: nice. you fix that then :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: ok, I'll try... need to rescale them first *g*
<Nafallo> sistpoty: I suck at gfx :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: unfortunately me too :/
<Nafallo> I'm worst ;-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yeah
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i think the descriptive name
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: but not the direct name
<ScottK> Anybody up for revuing some Perl packages?
<ScottK> Having survived my first visit here last month, I'm back with more...
<bddebian> Perl?  What the heck is that? :-)
<ScottK> libnet-dns-resolver-programmable-perl http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3974
<bddebian> I think the package name is too short
<Nafallo> *ASG*
<Toadstool> heh
<Nafallo> meeh
<Nafallo> ROTFL even
<ScottK> I agree, but it seems to fit the scheme for PERL packages...
<bddebian> heh
<Toadstool> hi everybody :)
<Nafallo> hi Toadstool 
<bddebian> Hence why we reject perl ;-P
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey bddebian & Nafallo 
<Toadstool> perl is evil!
<ScottK> OK.  Here's another with a shorter name...
<ScottK> libnetaddr-ip-perl http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3975
<ScottK> That one is in Debian, but VERY old.  See Debian bug 329644
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 329644 in libnetaddr-ip-perl "libnetaddr-ip-perl: New upstream release" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/329644
<ScottK> Both of those are dependencies for the one I'm really after getting in...
<bddebian> No one reviewed MY package :'-(
<ScottK> Another nice short name (really): mail-spf-perl http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3976
<Toadstool> bddebian: what package?
<bddebian> Toadstool: pegsolitaire :-)
* Toadstool needs something easy to review
<Toadstool> it's been a long time you know :p
<somerville32> tonyyserver, 
<somerville32> :/
<somerville32> Has anyone had trouble when upgrading to Feisty with vim-tiny's post-install script failing with error code 2?
<Fujitsu> somerville32, it apparently works if you retry the configuration of it a few times.
<Toadstool> i've heard of some issues related to vim lately yeah
<Toadstool> uh
<somerville32> Fujitsu, for real?
<Fujitsu> somerville32, yep.
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, it appears that you can fully rename a team.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: really?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, I was able to do it, so yes.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: hmm i did not see an option to do that when i looked before
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: maybe they just added that?
<Fujitsu> Under `Change Team Details', top box.
<sistpoty> Nafallo: I've got two icons now, a sword and an armor: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/icons/
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: interesting
<sistpoty> Nafallo: but imo the armor looks better (I just couldn't convert the sword to a nice looking thing)
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i only remember being able to change the descriptive one
<ScottK> About vim-tiny: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vim/+bug/77726
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 77726 in vim "can't upgrade vim" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<somerville32> Fujitsu: I installed the deb manually and it worked
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: thanks for telling me about that
<joejaxx> :)
<somerville32> ScottK: Thanks. (I'd look but I'm in tty right now)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, the armour is rather unrecognisable.
<Fujitsu> somerville32, LP isn't bad in elinks.
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: the sword as well :(... I just suck at gfx
<Nafallo> sistpoty: I like the sword :-)
<sistpoty> hm... the armor looks better with a non white background I just found out... but LP background is almost white :/
<Fujitsu> Anybody here got a sparc machine I can do a build-test on?
<sistpoty> Nafallo: let's take the sword then
<Nafallo> sistpoty: oki :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: you'll have to do that... I cannot change the emblem ;)
<Nafallo> nice :-)
<somerville32> :] 
<bddebian> StevenK: This hideously long name is different than libnet-dns-perl in Debian?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> To quote the author when I whined earlier today about having to package that one too, he said, "eah, I'm sorry. But no virtual DNS resolver class existed on CPAN (let alone Debian) before, so I had to write one myself."
<ScottK> eah/yeah...
* Fujitsu curses the embedded, unbuildable-on-sparc copy of Xorg in vnc4... It's all tarred up too, so no modification in .diff.gz for me... :S
<bddebian> I thought we ripped the version of vnc4 that had xorg in it out of the archives?
<ScottK> libnet-dns-perl is also a dependency.
<Fujitsu> bddebian, nope.
<Fujitsu> It's still there.
<Fujitsu> (in Dapper and Edgy at least, which is where it matters)
<bddebian> ScottK: Couple of small issues with it but overall looks fine
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK> I'll go work on that.
<ScottK> Would you mind taking a look at the other two too?
<bddebian> But my reviews are pretty worthless :-)
<bddebian> I am working on it
<ScottK> Cool.
<ScottK> IIRC your reviews were very helpful last time I tried this.
<ScottK> bbdebian: Question about the changelog...  The previous entries were in the Debian changelog put in by the upstream author (He's a Debian user and eventually hopes to get these in there).  I just want to make sure that it's cool to remove the previous entries even when they are in org.tar.gz?
<bddebian> ScottK: Is there a debian dir in the orig.tar.gz?
<ScottK> Yes.
<bddebian> bad, bad, bad :-)
<ScottK> He put it there, not me.  Made my job easier though.
<bddebian> Aye, but it's not "the Debian way"
<ScottK> Yes.  So at this point I'm not sure which way is the best way to deal with it.
<Nafallo> ScottK: tell upstream to remove it :-)
<ScottK> OK.  I can ask for the next release.  What to do about this one?
<bddebian> If he is the upstream author, why is he not putting changes in changelog, not worrying about debian/changelog? :)
<ScottK> He's very thorough?
<ScottK> The changes are listed in changelog too.
<ScottK> The same issue will apply to mail-spf-perl too.
<Toadstool> bddebian: according to lintian, changelog.gz is empty in /usr/doc/$package
<Toadstool> (in pegsolitaire)
<bddebian> Yes it is empty
<bddebian> ScottK: debian/changelog is distro specific changes, he shouldn't be putting them in there imo
<ScottK> Agreed, but does that mean I should remove them?  That's what I'm not sure of.
<Toadstool> bddebian: then there's no need to include it in the package, right?
<bddebian> Toadstool: I wasn't sure, the file is in the tarball
<ScottK> It looks to me like the copyright file was cribbed almost straight out of the Debian Maintainer's Guide.  http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-copyright
<ScottK> If you all think I should excise his debian/changelog, just say the word.  I'll go either way.
* Nafallo is to tired to look ;-)
<Nafallo> 4AM :-P
<bddebian> ScottK: OK, as I said, license stuff isn't my bag
<bddebian> persia: !!  Long time no "see" :-)
<persia> bddebian: Sorry about that.  I've a couple months now, so I'll be around.  I'll chase up on #45852 (several months late) today :)
<bddebian> I didn't mean that, I just meant welcome back :-)
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<persia> bddebian: Thanks then.  Nice to see you.
<Fujitsu> Damn, 6 seconds. I really am too slow these days.
<somerville32> Hobbsee, :)
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian, Fujitsu 
<somerville32> ...
<Hobbsee> hey somerville32 
<somerville32> :D
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<zakame> hi all
<sistpoty> hi zakame
<ScottK> bbdebian: Based on the debian/changelog stuff is in orig.tar.gz, can I twist your arm into advocating libnet-dns-resolver-programmable-perl?
<zakame> hi sistpoty how's everything?
<sistpoty> zakame: thanks, fine... how about you?
<zakame> I'm back to my hometown, but the internet tubes here are quite leaky...
<Nafallo> zakame: !!! :-D *hugs*
<zakame> Nafallo!!! :D
* zakame hugs Nafallo and sistpoty
<Nafallo> :-)
* sistpoty hugs zakame
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty :)
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: ! :-)
<Hobbsee> hey Nafallo 
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee!
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: things are good? :-)
<ScottK> sistpoty: Would you have time to look at a couple of packages?  I found your REVUs very helpful last time I tried to do this.
<sistpoty> ScottK: I never have time :P
<sistpoty> ScottK: but I'll look at one or two maybe ;)
<ScottK> OK.
<sistpoty> ScottK: link or packagename?
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool :)
<ScottK> Coming...
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: yep :)
<ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3975
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: sounds good :-)
<ScottK> This one is in Debian, but very old.  See Debian bug 329644
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 329644 in libnetaddr-ip-perl "libnetaddr-ip-perl: New upstream release" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/329644
<sistpoty> bddebian, ScottK: if the package is already in the archive, one vote is enough ;)
<sistpoty> but I can look anyway, if you want
<ScottK> Oh.
<bddebian> sistpoty: Well I'm a lousy reviewer as you know :-)
<ScottK> Then http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3974
<sistpoty> bddebian: not at all ;)
<ScottK> We were just discussing what to do about the debian/changelog because the entries that predate mine are from upstream in orig.tar.gz.
<ScottK> This is the initial packaging for Ubuntu.
<ScottK> My theory had been that I shouldn't remove upstream entries, but I'll go either way.
<ScottK> I was just trying to twist bbdebian's arm into advocating when you arrived.
<sistpoty> ScottK: well, opinions on this differ... imo there's nothing wrong in leaving these in... actually you still change stuff upstream released so far, only that it hasn't been released for ubuntu yet
<sistpoty> ScottK: is the tar.gz bit-identical to the one from upstream? (too lazy to look myself now *g*)
<ScottK> Yes.  Just changed the name.
<sistpoty> ok, fine
<sistpoty> ScottK: you should put yourself as maintainer in there. If you want you can then put upstream in an "uploader" field.
<somerville32> How can I use apt-get to see why packages were held back?
<ScottK> OK.  Makes sense since it's not in Debian at all.  I'll do that.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: apt-get install, apt-get dist-upgrade...
<ScottK> Anything else?
<sistpoty> ScottK: make it clear in debian/copyright as well ;)
<somerville32> Hobbsee, that tells me _what_ was held back but not _why_ :] 
<ScottK> OK.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: install it and it'll tell you why
<Hobbsee> heya ScottK - arent you one of the LP guys?
<somerville32> Ah
<ScottK> LP?
<Hobbsee> launchpad
<ScottK> No
<sistpoty> ScottK: other than that it's fine
<ScottK> I file bugs and comments.  That's it.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Fixing now.
<sistpoty> (though I must admit, that I don't know anything about perl policy)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, that is most fortunate.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ahh
<sistpoty> hehe
<somerville32> Hobbsee, The following packages have unmet dependencies:rn  linux-restricted-modules-386: Depends: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20-4-386 but it is not installable
<Hobbsee> somerville32: then install the later one.
<Hobbsee> why are you running -386 anyway?
<somerville32> I dunno... I didn't do anything special
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: the question we all ask ourselves all the time when giving support ;-)
<Fujitsu> Anybody here got a SPARC with an edgy pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: heh
<somerville32> Package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20-4-386 is not available, but is referredrnto by another package.rnThis may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, orrnis only available from another sourcernE: Package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20-4-386 has no installation candidate
<Hobbsee> somerville32: probably means it failed to build, or hasnt been published yet.  you should be using -generic, anyway
<Hobbsee> unless you have something that needs the 386
<somerville32> I dunno. I guess it got installed by default.
<somerville32> So I should install -generic?
<Nafallo> yes
<somerville32> Is there a performance loss?
<Nafallo> win
<Hobbsee> no
<Nafallo> :-)
<somerville32> win?
<somerville32> What is the package that I need to install to get the -generic kernel?
<Nafallo> performance win if anything :-)
<somerville32> oh, awesome :] 
<Nafallo> linux-generic
<somerville32> The following packages have unmet dependencies:rn  linux-restricted-modules-generic: Depends: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20-4-generic but it is not installable
<Hobbsee> install that then
<somerville32> Same error
<somerville32> (as the for -383)
<somerville32> Package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20-4-generic is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<Hobbsee> then just wait for your mirror to sync, or use a different mirror
<somerville32> I don't use a mirror
<somerville32> Or does it connect to the mirror automatically based on my ip address?
<somerville32> my sources.list has archives.ubuntu.com
<ScottK> sistypoty/bbdebian: How's this then? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3977
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, l-r-m often lags behind a bit.
<somerville32> Is it ok for me to reboot?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: true.  but i just installed it
<somerville32> lol
<Fujitsu> Hrm.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: use gb.archive.u.c
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, which mirror do you use?
<somerville32> Fujitsu, me or Hobbsee?
* Nafallo uses se.archive.ubuntu.com and archive.ubuntu.com :-)
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: gb.archive and 
<Hobbsee> deb http://mirror.pacific.net.au/ubuntu feisty main restricted universe multiver
<Hobbsee> se
* Nafallo needs more water
<Hobbsee> argh, bad paste
<Hobbsee> deb http://mirror.pacific.net.au/ubuntu feisty main restricted universe multiverse
<Hobbsee> (plus all the other assorted lines for that mirror, like feisty-updates, deb-src, etc)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<somerville32> Hmm
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: why have all the empty archives added? :-)
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: good questoin
<Hobbsee> habit
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: and i transfer that sources list from release to release
<somerville32> Tried with the mirrors
<Nafallo> I always run devel on this client so... :-)
<somerville32> It is working now
<somerville32> Sim generic is faster then 386?
<somerville32> *So
<somerville32> I run a 333mhz, btw
<Nafallo> somerville32: should be, yea.
<somerville32> Why?
<somerville32> What makes it faster?
<Nafallo> optimised for i686 instead of i486 IIRC
<Nafallo> hmm
* ScottK thought it was because linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20-4-generic has more letters than linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20-4-i386...
* Nafallo was about to check what's different, but remembered he's on amd64 :-P
<StevenK> -generic handles both i386 and amd64, where as -686 was i386-centric
<StevenK> (The package names are the same, but the contents are different across each arch, of course)
<Nafallo> StevenK: wrong discussion I think :-). 386 vs generic?
<Nafallo> on x86
<StevenK> -386 still exists
<StevenK> -686 does not
<Nafallo> noone have talked about -686? :-)
<sistpoty> hey, Nafallo: got an edgy system at hand? I just committed a patch for clamav (bug #76374)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76374 in clamav "MIME bypass" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76374
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, I was about to work on that :P
<Nafallo> sistpoty: sure. I'll go fire it up :-)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: darn... sorry.
<sistpoty> Nafallo: thx
<Fujitsu> So that patch is really the fix? I didn't find it plausible that it was going to be simple.
<Nafallo> damnit! it's the machine that won't start right away :-)
<Nafallo> sistpoty: where did you commit? :-)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: it works in my edgy chroot with unknown age (but since it was pretty virgin, it must not have been that old)
<Fujitsu> Debian used the same patch to fix it, so it must be right.
<sistpoty> Nafallo: debdiff right at the bug
<Nafallo> sistpoty: ah. I checked for bzr ;-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: is clamav in bzr?
<Nafallo> dunno :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> though I guess debdiffs attached to the bugs should work better for security updates (imo)... at least it's much more easy to look at a debdiff for -sru.
<Nafallo> oki :-)
<Nafallo> sistpoty: it booted :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: congrats ;)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> last time I tried it took a week from that I pressed the power button :-P
<somerville32> Woot
<Nafallo> you're lucky ;-)
* somerville32 is now a feisty man.
<Nafallo> somerville32: welcome :-)
<keescook> zakame: yo!  been emailin' ya  :)
<keescook> Nafallo: I added a bunch more bugs to motu-swat.  :)
<sistpoty> :)
<Nafallo> keescook: :-D
<Hobbsee> keescook: what's the swat for?
<keescook> Hobbsee: they formed a motu security team.  :)
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: it has a description ;-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<ScottK> sistpoty: Thanks.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3977 Any other takers?  bbdebian?  
<Hobbsee> keescook: ahhh
<Fujitsu> keescook, I believe I've fixed the sparc issue.
<keescook> Fujitsu: oh, cool.  what'd you find?
<bddebian> ScottK: Sure, give me a few
<Fujitsu> (I applied part of the patch from Debian 1.0.2-9)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<sistpoty> keescook: the clamav/edgy fix works for me btw., at least in a chroot
<Fujitsu> I haven't confirmed it builds on SPARC (I've got no access to such a machine), but the patch I've applied fixed the Xorg FTBFS on SPARC in Debian.
<keescook> sistpoty: interesting... 
<ScottK> The same guy did my other package - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3978 so I went back and made the same changes.  I expect it will be good to go, but, as noted, it won't build until libnet-dns-resolver-programmable-perl is in the archives.
<sistpoty> keescook: can you look at the debdiff? maybe you applied s.th. different (bug #76374)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76374 in clamav "MIME bypass" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76374
<sistpoty> thanks Ubugtu: 
<keescook> sistpoty: yeah, looks good, let me spin it up on my edgy chroot.  I wonder what I got wrong when I tried it.  :P
<sistpoty> keescook: I also asked Nafallo to test it a few minutes ago ;)
* sistpoty is out for a cigarette
* Fujitsu shakes his fist at LP's release-nomination restrictions.
<keescook> sistpoty: cool.  I built up a little test-harness for clamav, it's here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/package-tests/
<keescook> (along with a mess of other package tests too)
<persia> Could someone please walk me through the current procedure to request patch application to the archives?
<Fujitsu> keescook, there's not much there...
<Fujitsu> Oh, bzr.
<keescook> heh, yeah, sorry.  :)
<Nafallo> sudo: pbuilder: command not found dooh :-/
<ScottK> bbdebian: Thanks for the REVU.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3978 should build and be REVUable now, right?
<keescook> sistpoty: doesn't work for me still...
<sistpoty> keescook: strange...
<keescook> /tmp/eicar.mbox: OK
<keescook> yours detects the eicar?
<sistpoty> keescook: at least if I run it from command line
<keescook> so yours says /tmp/eicar.mbox: Eicar-Test-Signature FOUND
<keescook> ?
<sistpoty> keescook: eicar2.mbox: Eicar-Test-Signature FOUND
<keescook> i386?
<sistpoty> keescook: where can I find the stuff for the clamav test-suite?
<keescook> I wonder if it's a arch thing... I'm on amd64... let me rebuild on my i386 chroot
<sistpoty> keescook: I'm on amd64 as well
<keescook> I think if you do a    bzr co http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/package-tests/
<keescook> it'll pull it...
<sistpoty> keescook: no, only the python stuff, but not the zip/eicar thingies
<keescook> oh? to run the tests?  it's in the comments at the top:
<keescook> apt-get -y install python-unit clamav zip mpack
<keescook> (actually, you need clamav-daemon too)
<bddebian> ScottK: No, it will have to go through the NEW queue yet.
<sistpoty> keescook: just read it, thanks
<keescook> AH!  I'm a _moron_
<keescook> Setting up libclamav1 (0.88.4-1ubuntu2.1) ...
<sistpoty> hehe
<keescook> hey, look at that, it works.  *slap self*
<keescook> cool.  I'm glad another set of eyes looked at this.  :)
<sistpoty> *g*
<sistpoty> keescook: what's next... can I upload this to -security, or do you need to do it?
<keescook> I need to sign and upload it, but I'd rather get dapper tested too before doing an upload (just in case there is freak breakage)
<keescook> brb
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> I'll take a look at dapper then
<ScottK> bbdebian.  Thanks.  How long does NEW queue take?
* Nafallo need to rethink he's computers roles :-)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: forever
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, or longer.
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Nafallo> the server should be amd64 with buildmachines for amd64 and i386 in separate xens...
<Nafallo> and the client should be dual-boot edgy and dapper :-)
<Fujitsu> Can a core-dev here please ack the release nominations on bug #57195?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57195 in squirrelmail "[CVE-2006-4019]  squirrelmail -- variable overwriting" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57195
<keescook> sistpoty: cool.  I gotta split; send some email to security-review@lists.ubuntu.com to remind me and I'll get them uploaded to -security.  cya
<sistpoty> keescook: will do, thanks
<keescook> Fujitsu: done.  :)
<Fujitsu> Thanks, keescook.
<Fujitsu> Stupid LP.
<Nafallo> can't we ban php-packages from ubuntu or something? :-)
* Hobbsee wonders if the wine in feisty repos will be updated
<harrisony> Hobbsee: just us the wine reps
<Hobbsee> harrisony: i'm running feisty.
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, yes please!
<harrisony> why not use the edgy ones? wouldnt hurt i think
* Fujitsu grumps at totally unresponsive Debian maintainers.
<hub> Fujitsu: they expect you to fix the packages, and then bitch how ubuntu took their work and differ from it
<Fujitsu> hub, of course.
<TheMuso> /c/c
<bddebian> hmm
<Fujitsu> I emailed a few a month ago, as they had longstanding bugs requested new upstream versions (and we had equivalents in Malone)... Not one has responded. I guess I'll go ahead with uploading them to Ubuntu.
<sistpoty> actually I didn't have a problem with debian maintainers yet... most of them were even quite collaborative :)
* persia echos sistpoty
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, some of them are great; others either aren't, or are long-missing.
<sistpoty> hi persia
<Hobbsee> harrisony: deps are likely not the same
<persia> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: well, yep long-missing that's right *g*
<harrisony> hmm unless you wana download it and then make & checkinstall
<Fujitsu> harrisony, don't you dare mention such a thing.
<Hobbsee> \sh_away: heya.  how hard is wine to upgrade?
<Hobbsee> harrisony: ugh.
<harrisony> Fujitsu: what this is MOTU-none of you (except for the bots) should be scared of source and compiling
<joejaxx> sistpoty: how do i know how far down the queue packages are for revu lol it does not say on the revu site
<Fujitsu> .. checkinstall is something to be scared of.
* joejaxx dislikes checkinstall
<Hobbsee> oh whee, this looks weird
<harrisony> Fujitsu: is it i just used it today, whats so bad
<Hobbsee> harrisony: we arent.  but checkinstall is evil
<sistpoty> joejaxx: there is no queue... only random motu's picking random packages or getting randomly pinged ;)
<joejaxx> oh
* joejaxx thought there was a queue
<joejaxx> lol
<sistpoty> joejaxx: the order in which the packages are displayed is really strange... we introduced it since a very long time (as a feature) and never changed it back since then
<joejaxx> oh ok
<sistpoty> joejaxx: it's something like most comments and most uploads and you'll end up at the top
<sistpoty> iirc
<sistpoty> *g*
<joejaxx> sistpoty: ah! ok
* Hobbsee wonders how long wine takes to build
<joejaxx> sistpoty: thank you for the information :)
<Nafallo> sistpoty: should we sleep soon? :-)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: It's not too bad
<sistpoty> Nafallo: /me definitely does *G*
<sistpoty> joejaxx: np
<Nafallo> sistpoty: :-)
<sistpoty> #define night day
<persia> sistpoty: Thanks.  You might look at 48120 as well :)
<Nafallo> haha
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, > 2 hours, generally.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: argh
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: right.
<sistpoty> persia: give me a few minutes, then I'll look at it
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Just make sure you pull it from winehq and not Debian :-)
<joejaxx> sistpoty: i will wait then the package i did was a meta
<Hobbsee> bddebian: well, yeah, of course.  is it complicated?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Nah, not bad
<Hobbsee> bddebian: do you know if i take the actual source, or the soruce for ubuntu?
<bddebian> I would take the actual source but I'm not too smart ya know :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<sistpoty> can you make it amd64 clean please? *g*
<bddebian> blech
<bddebian> Who the hell wants wine anyway? :-)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: no.  i dont run amd64
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: arg *g*
<Hobbsee> lol
<persia> bddebian: gamers and musicians mostly
<sistpoty> argl... I've been building the edgy clamav version in a dapper changeroot. *slapping myself*
<Hobbsee> bddebian: what's the command to diff between two folders again?
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: diff -Nur folder1 folder2
<Nafallo> ruN
<Nafallo> it's easier to remember :-)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: thanks, that's waht i thought
<Hobbsee> which means these two are the same
<sistpoty> np
<Nafallo> can't. keep. eyes. opened...
<sistpoty> gn8 Nafallo
<Nafallo> gnight ;-)
<bddebian> Gnight Nafallo :-)
* Hobbsee will attempt to build that when she comes home
<tritium> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> tritium!!  Where have you been hiding??
<bddebian> You're the one that got me into this mess.. ;-P
<tritium> Um, at work, I guess.  How are you?
<Hobbsee> hey tritium!!!
<bddebian> Busy but good thanks
<tritium> Hi Hobbsee :)
<tritium> I saw you mention wine.  Funny you should mention that.  I was trying to install MS Project via wine today.  heh.
<Hobbsee> lol
<tritium> didn't work ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<ScottK> Good night everyone.  Thanks for all your help.
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK
<bddebian> tritium: Are you mad? :-)
<bddebian> Project is a pig even in Windows :-)
<sistpoty> gn8 ScottK
<tritium> bddebian: nah
<tritium> But I need it for my job.
<bddebian> Gnight gang
* sistpoty is off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<cypher1> does a source package having dependency on sysvinit is correct ?
<zakame> why, what does it need on sysvinit?
<cypher1> zakame, it needs /usr/include/initreq.h
<zakame> ah
<cypher1> zakame, if we put a dependency then people who want to build the source may then have to remove upstart, correct ?
<zakame> not sure... probably so
<cypher1> zakame, i think so.. pbuilder removed it
<Fujitsu> keescook, there's no give-back facility on the security buildds!?
<keescook> Fujitsu: there is, but it's a nightmare to manage (and I'm not an archive admin)
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<keescook> so I just bump the version and hand-wave the changelog and it all works out.  :)
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> I can't see the Dapper builds on LP... Does it have to go through the normal LP source-`publishing' cycles as well?
<keescook> it bypasses the build, but it goes through a publishing cycle.
<keescook> generally stuff uploaded before x:55 o'clock will show up around x+1:35
<Fujitsu> OK.
<keescook> (oh, I also uploaded the sparc fix to feisty)
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<keescook> I love it!  More people doing security updates!  *bounce around happily*
<zakame> hehe
<keescook> hiya zakame!
<Fujitsu> Are there any more universe security bugs subscribed to ubuntu-security but not motu-swat?
<zakame> yo keescook
<crimsun> wha, motu-swat?
<keescook> Fujitsu: I didn't do a full sweep, figured I'd double-check that on Monday.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, yeah. The new universe security team.
<crimsun> right, I just applied.
<keescook> crimsun: not getting enough bugmail, eh?  :)
<Fujitsu> keescook, hahah.
<crimsun> it's like crack
<keescook> hehe
<Fujitsu> What's the point of having some 350 bugs assigned to MOTU?
<persia> Fujitsu: It makes a nice list for those of us who troll malone looking for things to patch.
<Fujitsu> persia, I supposer.
<Fujitsu> *suppose
<Fujitsu> I find it a little deceptive to have them assigned, though.
<Fujitsu> Normally the assignee is actually going to be doing something.
<Fujitsu> If they're assigned to MOTU, they won't appear in `unassigned' searches.
<Fujitsu> Even though nobody is working on them.
<persia> Fujitsu: Perhaps you're right.  On the other hand, if separates triage from fixes.  There's not much activity in #ubuntu-bugs today, but in the past there have been days with much triage (and no patches) being discussed there.
<Fujitsu> Bug statuses exist for a reason. After they're Confirmed, triage is over.
<persia> Fujitsu: WIth the new set of Status listings, your interpretation is probably more correct (I've been away for a while, and my understanding is likely not current)
<Fujitsu> The statuses haven't changed in well over a year.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.
<Fujitsu> In fact, I can't remember them ever being different...
<persia> Fujitsu: A long, long time ago they were something like New, Confirmed, Assigned, Fixed (based on the old bugzilla categories).  Like I said, assignment to MOTU is probably no longer correct.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<vil> hello
<pkern> Is there some good CDBS documentation available? I wanted to extend an existing Ubuntu package to run some tests which are included in the source tree.
<pkern> (i.e. I need to integrate a check target somehow...)
<vil> i have a problem with building eclipse-cdt package on ia64. the build log from LP does not give me enough info. is there an ia64 machine that i coul
<vil> could get access to?
<vil> pkern: try /usr/share/doc/cdbs/cdbs-doc.html
<pkern> vil: Thanks. (:
<ogra> white, i'm fine with requesting a sync of marble from experimental ... what about libunwind7, is that needed ? (seems there is no package yet)
<doko> libunwind7 is ia64 only
<Lure> any motu willing to upload eqonomize for me: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3979
<Lure> it is simple new upstream release (the rest is the same)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> bddebian: Hi
<bddebian> Hi Emmet
<Riddell> Lure: maybe Hobbsee will upload for you
<Lure> Riddell: she is on Windows today ;-)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: what am i uploading?
<Hobbsee> nah, i'm back to linux
* Hobbsee curses evil flash.   again.
<Lure> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3979
<Riddell> 14:46 < Lure> it is simple new upstream release (the rest is the same)
* Lure has to apply for motu one day (even though that most of my changes are for main)
<Hobbsee> Lure: heh
<Hobbsee> Lure: any chance we could get the homepage included in the long description of debian/control?  i know you didnt neglect that in the first place
<Lure> Hobbsee: sure, I can add that - just put all suggestions to revu and I will fix it
<Hobbsee> Lure: that was my only one
<Hobbsee> standards version is 3.7.2.2, if i'm being really picky
<Lure> Hobbsee: ok - doing it now ;-)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Riddell> you don't tend to put the last point figure in the standards version
<Hobbsee> Riddell: revu comments tend to say that
<Hobbsee> it's more the lack of home page that i'm being picky about :P
<Riddell> ok, /I/ only put standards version in to three figures :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* bddebian too
<Hobbsee> Riddell: there appears to be no set "checklist for reviewing" and such
<Hobbsee> well, not much of one
<Lure> Hobbsee: updated package is on revu
<Hobbsee> Lure: yay :)
<Hobbsee> Lure: uploading
<Lure> Hobbsee: thanks!
<Hobbsee> :)
<ryanakca> how do I fix http://pastebin.ca/307140 ? 
<Lutin> ryanakca: missing shebang is #!/bin/sh
<Lutin> ryanakca: seems that your package contains shared libs, which means you'll have to split the package to put those libs apart from the binary
<Lutin> ryanakca: oops sorry forget my 2nd comment, I didn't read your comment
<simu> Where can I read about the process of fixing bugs and building a new package?
<Lutin> hay motus, could someone have a look to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3981 ?
<Lure> ryanakca: debian packages are typically split to multiple binary packages libXXX and XXX in such cases
<Lure> ryanakca: and then XXX depends on libXXX
<cat> okay i found a bug on firefox
<cat> that's interesting
<Lutin> Lure: usually yes for shared libs, but maybe not for plugins
<ryanakca> yeah....
<ryanakca> and how would I split it into multiple binary packages?
* ryanakca googles it
<Lutin> ryanakca: is it on revu ?
<ryanakca> Lutin: not the up to date version, just a sec
<Lure> ryanakca: just more entries in debian/control
<Lure> ryanakca: check kde-guidance or any kde package (most are multi-binary)
<ryanakca> that's it? kk, have an example package that I could use to figure it ou
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> E: solseek_0.8a-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty                   I can ignore, right?
<Lutin> ryanakca: yep
<ryanakca> Lutin: uploaded, just waiting for REVU to update itself
<ryanakca> Lutin: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3982
* ryanakca is still trying to find a libXXX and XXX source package...
<Adri2000> argghhhh
<Adri2000> revu admin needed
<Lure> ryanakca: check powersave
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<ryanakca>  2996 ryan      25   0  7552 4868 1308 R 79.1  1.3   0:11.98 gpg
<ryanakca> O.O... 79.1% CPU? that's crazy...
<Adri2000> raphink, siretart: ping
<siretart> Adri2000: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
<Adri2000> ehhh
<rexbron> general comment on revu mailing list, we need a spam filter
<raphink> pong Adri2000
<Adri2000> raphink: I uploaded libdjconsole to revu instead of mentors.debian.net
<raphink> ;h;
<raphink> mhm
<Adri2000> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3983
<raphink> and so what do you need?
<raphink> you want me to nuke it?
<Adri2000> yes please
<jdong> ryanakca: what on earth are you signing?
<raphink> Adri2000: archived
<Adri2000> thanks
<ryanakca> jdong: nothing... it's dpkg-source -x powersave_0.14.0-2ubuntu1.dsc ... because    apt-get source powersave spit out "Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x powersave_0.14.0-2ubuntu1.dsc' failed.       Check that the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed." 
<jdong> hehe :)
* ryanakca wonders about crimsun's key...
<ryanakca> Lure: so, I would name it libsolseek?       the number at the end is random or ?
<Lure> ryanakca: number at the end is soname
<Lure> ryanakca: it is increased when API/ABI of a library changes
<Lure> ryanakca: same number is also appended to .so file
<Lure> ryanakca: check some other libs around
<Lure> ryanakca: maybe libs in this package already have appropriate soname, so you would just use that in package name
<jdong> ha, this is great... yet another use for canned air
<jdong> freeze-spray the thermostat to warm up the room :)
<imbrandon> why not just adjust the thermostat ?
<jdong> imbrandon: office building, restricted thermostats
<jdong> particularly on weekends
<jdong> and they have free cans of dust-off in the supply cabinet, so it's definitely a goofing-off day
<jdong> (they make sweet model rockets btw)
<ryanakca> Lure: kk
<vil> hi all
<vil> i have a problem with building eclipse-cdt package on ia64. the build log from LP does not give me enough info. is there an ia64 machine that i could get access to?
<ryanakca> jdong: lol
<somerville32> Umm... Does anyone know of a package that creates a user account called "sashroot"?
<somerville32> I just found an account called "sashroot" that has a uid of 0
<somerville32> ah, google to the rescue :] 
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<Nafallo> morning joejaxx :-)
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> or reall Good Afternoon here lol
<joejaxx> s/reall/really/g
<Nafallo> 20:22 CET :-)
<joejaxx> Nafallo: really?
<joejaxx> it is 14:25 here :)
<joejaxx> being in different timezones is fun
<joejaxx> it could be lunch for someone else when it is nighttime where you are
<Nafallo> :-)
<siretart> slomo?
<ScottK> If there are any MOTUs around, I have a minor upstream upate (bug fixes and documentation improvments) and some packaging improvments for REVU.
<ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3984
<Adri2000> how can I update config.{sub,guess} without making the .diff.gz unreadable?
<shawarma> Adri2000: huh? You want to change config.{sub,guess} without changing it?
<Adri2000> yes :P
<shawarma> Sound dirty.
<shawarma> I like it! :-)
<tepsipakki> adri2000: use cdbs
<shawarma> tepsipakki: That'll still "mess up" the diff.
<Adri2000> I will ask upstream to update config.{sub,guess} directly in the orig.tar.gz, it's the best solution :)
<tepsipakki> shawarma: it does? Hasn't seen that myself..
<tepsipakki> guess I've been lucky ;)
<slomo> siretart: yes? :) congrats to your account creation btw ;)
<shawarma> tepsipakki: I can't rule out that cdbs might have weird magic for "fixing" it.. I doubt it, though.
<tepsipakki> s/has/have/
<tepsipakki> it does IIRC, read the docs :)
<shawarma> Heh... cdbs: The gift that keeps giving.
<tepsipakki> the manual could be better, though
<tepsipakki> for the "hard stuff"
<shawarma> tepsipakki: Oh, indeed it does. It copies back the old config.* when cleaning.
<siretart> slomo: I wanted to congratulate you as well! :)
<shawarma> Adri2000: Well, you could alter the configure and clean targets to backup your config.* and restore them, respectively. 
<slomo> siretart: thanks :) did you already upload something? ;)
<shawarma> Adri2000: ...but since the point probably is to keep the diff small, it's not really very helpful. :-)
<Adri2000> :p
<shawarma> slomo, siretart: Are you talking about Debian accounts?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-01-07
<rexbron> crimsun: how does one decide what binaries will be created from the source package?
<crimsun> sorry, that question's a bit vague
<crimsun> are you asking how to name the binary packages (debian/control)?
<rexbron> kind of look at http://www.somasuite.org/somad.php
<rexbron> everything there is in the same source package
<crimsun> or are you asking how to place files in certain binary packages (debian/*.install)?
<rexbron> both
* bluefoxicy blinks
<rexbron> so for example (from above link):
<bluefoxicy> gnome terminal misspells "Colors" in the preferences dialog vo.ov
<rexbron> one would have a dh_install move all the somad files into the proper dir
<crimsun> or you could just enumerate the files in debian/somad.install
<rexbron> crimsun: I think I need a hand holding
<crimsun> ok, I pointed you to quodlibet's source package
<crimsun> take a look in debian/*.install
<rexbron> ok
<crimsun> note how each foo.install explicitly lists which files belong to binary package 'foo'
<rexbron> getting the source now
<rexbron> crimsun: ok
<rexbron> that is where they would normally be make install'd to?
<crimsun> yes
<rexbron> ok, makes sense
<Fujitsu> bluefoxicy, how does it spell it?
<crimsun> as for libsoma, you should look at http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/
<rexbron> crimsun: how does one decide how to name (and therefore split) the differnt packages?
<bluefoxicy> Fujitsu: "Colour"
<rexbron> bluefoxicy: that is the canadian and british spelling
<crimsun> rexbron: that's pretty much up to the packager
<rexbron> crimsun: sugestions
<bluefoxicy> rexbron: well I'm not canadian or british
<crimsun> rexbron: (except for the libraries, which I gave you a pointer to)
<Fujitsu> bluefoxicy, that is the spelling literally everywhere except the US.
<Fujitsu> (that speaks English, that is)
<bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  well, I'm in the US  o.o
<rexbron> crimsun: there is so much to do for this package
<rexbron> crimsun: this is the breakdown I am thinking of 
<rexbron> somad, libsoma0, libsoma0-dev, somacheck, somaclient, somaconfig, soma-doc, phpsoma, pysoma
<rexbron> this is based off of looking at the src
<Fujitsu> rexbron, it would be libsoma-dev.
<rexbron> ya
<rexbron> crimsun: now how does one know where each of the files that make up the packages would normally be installed to?
<rexbron> !udb
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about udb - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<rexbron> !udeb
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about udeb - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<rexbron> crimsun: now how does one know where each of the files that make up the packages would normally be installed to?
<crimsun> rexbron: look at an installed package or a deb, or a --prefixed make install
<rexbron> ok
<rexbron_> crimsun: 
<rexbron_> crimsun: I did a prefixed install
<crimsun> to $HOME/foo, I hope
<rexbron_> crimsun: and know what is installed where
<rexbron_> yes
<crimsun> ok, now follow the instructions in dh_install
<crimsun> dh_install(1), rather
<rexbron_> crimsun: ok so for somad 
<rexbron_> it installs a binary to usr/bin/ with the name somad
<rexbron_> therefore somad.install contains /usr/bin/somad
<LaserJock> I don't think you want the first / on that
<rexbron_> LaserJock: could you explain?
<LaserJock> because it's not really going to install it to /usr/bin/somad when building
<LaserJock> but rather $CURDIR/debian/somad/usr/bin/
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<LaserJock> or perhaps $CURDIR/debian/tmp/usr/bin/
<rexbron_> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> .install should have usr/bin/
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu 
<rexbron_> LaserJock: What exactly does the dirs file do?
<LaserJock> that's for creating directories that aren't already made
<LaserJock> for example, if you're adding a .desktop file that isn't in the source
<rexbron_> LaserJock: in the file system or debian/tmp?
<LaserJock> you need to make sure /usr/share/applications/ is there
<crimsun> the latter.
<rexbron_> ok
<crimsun> or rather, the packaging dir (not necessarily debian/tmp/, could be debian/foobarblah)
<rexbron_> crimsun: so somad has files in /usr/bin and /usr/etc/
<crimsun> /usr/etc? eww
<crimsun> run away run away
<rexbron_> crimsun: what would its .install file contain
<rexbron_> not on my system
<rexbron_> that is where is would normally install too
<crimsun> does it use autotools?
<rexbron_> to
<rexbron_> yes
<crimsun> like a ./configure ?
<rexbron_> yes
<rexbron_> sorry
<crimsun> does it honor --confdir?
<rexbron_> brb
<rexbron_> I got to go to a movie
<rexbron_> will be  back in 2 h
<yotux> Can someone explain CDBS to me?  Sorry an new and would like to help by packaging but have no formal programing experience 
<LaserJock> yotux: well, CDBS is pretty difficult to explain
<yotux> i was looking at the doc and i am confused by what looks liek a bash script to me
<LaserJock> it's basically a large amount of automation of the packaging process
<yotux> for me I not understanding where debain/rules is
<LaserJock> if you are new to Debian packaging I wouldn't really recommend CDBS to start with
<LaserJock> ok, so debian/rules is  a Makefile
<yotux> ok
<LaserJock> similar to what a lot of programs have
<yotux> I am new to the whole packing Idea
<LaserJock> have you ever done something like ./configure , make, sudo make install to install an app from s ource?
<yotux> yes
<yotux> I have install source before
<yotux> where config finds that something is not there that is need to install
<LaserJock> well, a Makefile is the file that tells make what to do
<LaserJock> the instructions for building the app
<LaserJock> it's fairly similar to a shell script
<yotux> So from what I am understanding is that using CDBS one would need to modify the make file of the source program
<LaserJock> debian/rules is a Makefile that gives the instructions for building .debs from the source
<yotux> ok
<LaserJock> well, hopefully you wouldn't need to modify the program's Makefile
<Nafallo> WTF!?
<Nafallo> is sistpoty in bed? :-)
<LaserJock> yotux:  have you seen the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<yotux> yes
<yotux> that is where I found out about CDBS
<LaserJock> ah
<yotux> From what I understood CDBS made things more streamlined
<LaserJock> did you read through the "from scratch" and "debhelper" sections
<yotux> yes
<LaserJock> well, generally, I think most people start at the debhelper stage
<yotux> ok
<LaserJock> it's just basically layers of automation
<LaserJock> and "helping"
<LaserJock> CDBS has the most, but on the other hand can be the hardest to understand because it's a bit of "magic"
<sistpoty> hi folks
<LaserJock> Nafallo: heh
<LaserJock> yotux: is there you found particularly confusing in the packaging guide?
<LaserJock> *there anything
<Nafallo> WTF! :-P
<sistpoty> hey Nafallo and LaserJock
<Nafallo> sistpoty: go to bed or something :-). I was just impressed that you probably where better than me at that :-)
<yotux> Well to me I was reading the packing guide and it makes reference to edgy but i am trying to assist with fiesty
<Nafallo> were :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: hehe
<LaserJock> yotux: ah, it's hard to write for the future sometimes ;-)
<sistpoty> I hope I have a better wake/sleep states from next week on
<yotux> yuppers
<LaserJock> I think I'll just try to make it release neutral in the future
<yotux> I understand.  Some stuff is different the main idea is that same I believe
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I don't mind, you have normal hours for my side of the world ;-)
<sistpoty> *g*
<yotux> if you are the one that wrote it thank you for all of your hard work
<LaserJock> your welcome, I hope it helped
<LaserJock> it's sort of a community project
<yotux> it does, not being a programmer doesn't help me I don;t think.  i just feel that i use this great software that everyone help with so i need to give back to the community
<crimsun> we should promote sistpoty to deity status, too.
<sistpoty> crimsun: I'm not worthy
<crimsun> too bad, you're a deity now
<LaserJock> yotux: well, I'll let you in on a little secret. Most of use are programmers either ;-)
<sistpoty> damn
<LaserJock> sistpoty: it doesn't help
<somerville32> How does one upload to multiverse?
<Nafallo> hmm
<LaserJock> yotux: aren't rather
<LaserJock> somerville32: same as Universe
<sistpoty> somerville32: same procedure as for universre
<yotux> I figure it out
<Nafallo> I shouldn't say anything about sistpoty... he and I are in the same TZ ;-)
<LaserJock> yotux: I'm a chemist, for instance
<yotux> ok sorry i guess I am a bigger newbie than i realized after all
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> you just learn as you go
<yotux> yes I am trying.  i start college this week for computer science
<LaserJock> yotux: I was in the same position as you when I first got started
<LaserJock> well, there you go. You're already ahead of me
<yotux> I wish to a degree that I was forced to use the command line more.
<yotux> I find that one can learn a lot from using the command line instead of GUI tools
<crimsun> as long as one doesn't get caught up in the semantics of one at the expense of the other
<crimsun> wow, um, if I can't configure pulseaudio, I don't see how others are going to find this straightforward...
<LaserJock> uh oh
<Fujitsu> Uh oh.
<chillywilly> when you install just the base system w/ no gui (like when you type 'server' at the command line) is there a meta package/task that is installed?
<chillywilly> erm, at the installer prompt I mean not the command line
<LaserJock> I think so
<crimsun> sort of. at least ubuntu-minimal should be installed.
<LaserJock> there are also a couple of tasks
<LaserJock> DNS server and LAMP I think
<chillywilly> that's from the server install disks, right?
<chillywilly> why doesn't ubuntu minimal have a kernel in there?
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<LaserJock> chillywilly: you should check the seeds
<chillywilly> I don't know what those are :)
<LaserJock> chillywilly: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.feisty
<LaserJock> they are the files that tells what goes on the cd and meta packages
<chillywilly> ok
<Nafallo> LaserJock: and tasks?
<LaserJock> tasks are what are used by tasksel
<LaserJock> sort of like metapackages, but different
<LaserJock> ;-)
<chillywilly> are you supposed to be able to check that our with bazaar?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: yea. but does the seeds generate them? :-)
<Nafallo> chillywilly: yes
<LaserJock> Nafallo: no
<Nafallo> LaserJock: oh
<LaserJock> at least I don't think so
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> The tasks are defined by Task headers in packages.
<LaserJock> well, they can also be shipped separately
<Fujitsu> I think, at least.
<Fujitsu> Probably.
<Nafallo> let's find out :-)
<LaserJock> but I believe the Ubuntu ones are done via the .debs
<Nafallo> LaserJock: apt-cache show believes you :-)
<LaserJock> the archive guys mess around with the binaries as far as I can tell for the -live
<jdong> so, any good explanations why Java's EULA states "You acknowledge that Licensed Software is not designed or intended for use in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility."?
<Nafallo> ehhr
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: apt-cache show believes you :-)
<chillywilly> anyone every look at conary package manager or rPath Linux?
<chillywilly> ever*
<Nafallo> chillywilly: ozamosi :-)
<chillywilly> um, ok
<chillywilly> is that a developer/person?
<Nafallo> chillywilly: a nick :-)
<Nafallo> chillywilly: was the contactperson for my loco before :-)
<chillywilly> I see blogs posts by her
<crimsun> jdong: yes, because by default it's not RT-capable
<chillywilly> about conary, etc.
<jdong> crimsun: would that be enough to warrant that warning?
<crimsun> jdong: yes
<jdong> interesting
<jdong> crimsun: and why would StarOffice need to be RT-capable?
<jdong> (controlling reactors from spreadsheet macros?)
<Nafallo> chillywilly: no. you don't. you might see blogposts by him though :-)
<chillywilly> um I thought I saw that nick in ubuntu women or some such thing
<chillywilly> a bazaar branch
<Nafallo> chillywilly: he's the admin for them...
<chillywilly> ubuntu-women.org
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> guess I shouldn't assume then ;)
<chillywilly> anyway, a conary-based ubuntu/debian would be an interesting thing ;P
<crimsun> jdong: it needs to be RT-capable?
<jdong> crimsun: it's kind of silly for a word processor to carry a warning about use in nuclear facilities
<jdong> I can kind of understand why a programming language/ runtime should need it
<crimsun> I'm sure it's to cover someone's arse.
<jdong> :D
<somerville32> jdong: What word processor has that warning?
<jdong> somerville32: Sun StarOffice
<jdong> somerville32: it seems like Sun especially likes to stamp that warning all over its products 
<somerville32> jdong: Too bad it didn't make it into this year's weird labels and warnings awards
<jdong> somerville32: wtf there's a contest for it?
<somerville32> jdong: Do you not read slashdot?
<jdong> somerville32: haven't read it for two days
<jdong> kinda been busy
<somerville32> You miss so much when you don't read slashdot
<jdong> somerville32: I have a really cheap sweater that on the washing directions tab says "OR GIVE IT TO YOUR WIFE"
<jdong> that probably would've won something :)
<somerville32> <g>
<somerville32> The winner was (paraphrased) "Don't put kids inside while running" on a dryer or something
<jdong> lol
<Nafallo> jdong: damn it! have you put an image of that online?
<jdong> in a twisted kind of way, that actually makes some sense
<jdong> Nafallo: no, I will if I get entertained enough
<jdong> Nafallo: google... ten bucks someone with the same shirt posted it already?
<somerville32> jdong: Runner up was "Don't dry your cellphone out in microwave oven"
<jdong> some of them IMO are designed to be funny
<Nafallo> jdong: hehe. thought it was you. I saw that image getting linked from a channel on another net 2-3 days ago :-)
<jdong> like there was this elevator sign I saw last month in China that shows a stick-figure banging its head on the sign
<chillywilly> weird, I did a apt-get install bazaar and the only binaries installed are baz and bazaar-gpg-check
<jdong> worse, there's a highway clearance sign on a bridge close to where I live that dangles like 3 feet lower than the clearance it stated
<jdong> there was a news story about that
<Nafallo> chillywilly: bzr != bazaar :-P
<chillywilly> blah ;P
<jdong> chillywilly: (1) you want bzr (2) you'd want to get it from bazaar-vcs.org's repos
<chillywilly> I'm too flippin tired now... :)
<chillywilly> brain no worky
<Nafallo> actually bzr != bazaar == bzr :-)
<chillywilly> so it's not packaged?
<Nafallo> chillywilly: it is
<chillywilly> installing from source is against ever fiber of my lazy being
<Nafallo> chillywilly: bzr is bazaar-ng (which are often called just bazaar)
<chillywilly> every*
<chillywilly> apt-get install motivation
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> oh, sorry
<chillywilly> so basically I was just trying to get a list of packages that would allow one to build a base ubuntu system
<ScottK> Anybody up for a REVU?  Should be an easy one... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3984
<Nafallo> ScottK: sistpoty :-)
<Nafallo> ScottK: it's only 6:29AM for us ;-)
<sistpoty> ScottK: let me finish gallery2 security update and then I'll take a look ;)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Nafallo> sistpoty: lol. get some sleep man :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: I already did tonight... from 22.00 to about 1.00h *g*
<sistpoty> but I'm getting tired again, maybe I'll make another coffe
<sistpoty> +e
<chillywilly> maybe my good buddy ajmitchie can lend a helping hand ;)
<chillywilly> wonder wtf he went
<Nafallo> sistpoty: three hours... dude. that's worse than me that haven't slept :-P
<sistpoty> hehe
<chillywilly> ubotu: help me find ajmitch, I lost him
<chillywilly> ubotu: seen ajmitch
<somerville32> ubotu: seen chillywilly
<ubotu> chillywilly is on IRC right now!
<somerville32> ;D
* chillywilly slaps somerville32 around some
<chillywilly> hmm, in pm he told me that he was last seen 1d or so ago
<chillywilly> in here he ignores me
<sistpoty> ubotu: uptime sistpoty
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uptime sistpoty - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<chillywilly> ubotu: ajmitch?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ajmitch? - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<chillywilly> ubotu: seen ajmitch
<ubotu> I last saw ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) 1d 1h 48m 15s ago, quiting: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<chillywilly> there ya go
<chillywilly> ubotu: botsnack
<ubotu> Yum!
<Nafallo> ubotu: seen Nafallo
<ubotu> Nafallo is on IRC right now!
<somerville32> ubotu: please tell chillywilly botsnack
<somerville32> Fine - be picky
<somerville32> ubotu: please tell chillywilly about botsnack
<chillywilly> ubotu: lart somerville32 
<chillywilly> bummer :)
<chillywilly> ubotu: help
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<crimsun> pulseaudio-module-hal loses. Utterly.
<somerville32> so.. who won?
<crimsun> I did after hacking the conffiles.
* somerville32 congratulates crimsun.
<crimsun> now, time to figure out wth pulseaudio-module-hal threw a hussy.
<gpocentek> hello Universe :)
<crimsun> hi gauvain
<gpocentek> hi Daniel
<crimsun> pretty early in the morning for you, no? :)
<gpocentek> yes, 6:41am
<crimsun> or have you, too, gone sistpoty timezone?
<sistpoty> crimsun: I'm still here
<crimsun> yeah, the sistpoty timezone.
<crimsun> now available in your local tzconfig
<gpocentek> I usually wake up at 4am, so it's not that early ;)
<sistpoty> utc +1, so it's 6.43
<sistpoty> hi gpocentek btw.
<gpocentek> hi sistpoty 
<Toadstool> heya gpocentek 
<sistpoty> grml... perl... grml
<crimsun> all the EUs!
<gpocentek> hi Toadstool 
<crimsun> oh wait, Toadstool's still left coast
<sistpoty> anyone who speaks perl around?
<Toadstool> crimsun: yep :)
<crimsun> I hear Steven -loves- Perl.
<sistpoty> well, I simply need s.th. like turn "find ." into an array of filenames
<somerville32> gpocentek, Are you going to be at the next Xubuntu-devel meeting?
<gpocentek> somerville32: I'll try
<somerville32> gpocentek, Do you know what happened to Jani? He seems to have disappeared.
<gpocentek> somerville32: I know that he tries to find/create a job, so he doesn't have much time for Ubuntu
<crimsun> sistpoty: 00:47 < gxti> chomp(@filenames = `find .`); ? :p
<Toadstool> heh
<sistpoty> crimsun: thanks
<somerville32> gpocentek, What are we going to do with Xubuntu? lol
<gpocentek> somerville32: hum, make it work nicely ? :)
<somerville32> gpocentek, Wee :)
<somerville32> gpocentek, Feisty is looking nice so far.
<crimsun> I suggest replacing moz-tbird with evolution. Wee!
<gpocentek> yes, and yesterday commits in Xfce svn look nice
<gpocentek> crimsun: and thunar with konqueror
<crimsun> oooh
<somerville32> gpocentek, I don't monitor Xfce svn. What went in?
<Toadstool> uhuh
<somerville32> gpocentek, crimsun: Maybe replace gxine with Amarok?
<crimsun> wine+iTunes kthx
<Nafallo> gnight
<gpocentek> somerville32: libexo now handles the mountings
<Toadstool> what about bmpx ? :)
<crimsun> Nafallo: 'night
<Toadstool> Nafallo: g'night
<gpocentek> somerville32: and Thunar uses this of course
<somerville32> gpocentek, What was it using before?
<crimsun> mm, nice wrt exo
<gpocentek> Thunar had its own code for this IIRC
* gpocentek hopes a stable Xfce release will happen this month
* Toadstool is getting a lil' tipsy with all this wine from Temecula
<somerville32> gpocentek, me too :] 
<somerville32> gpocentek, My SRU for mousepad is almost ready. I just need to remove a few things from the patch and cjwatson said he would approve it.
<gpocentek> somerville32: yep I've seen this
* somerville32 is proud of himself.
<gpocentek> :)
<somerville32> My SRU for curl got approved too and is already uploaded
* somerville32 flexes.
<crimsun> did I upload that one?
* somerville32 nods.
<sistpoty> oh, nice... I tricked the gallery2 perl-script, that updates some weird checksum files and needs CVS entries for this into spitting out a file with the oneliner :)
<crimsun> yeah, a two-line diff
<crimsun> impressive :)
<sistpoty> it is :)
* somerville32 thinks about packaging a simple python application
<ScottK> Any application in particular?
<crimsun> pyneighborhood?
* somerville32 cringes.
<somerville32> I dunno if pyneighborhood even works right - why waste time packaging it?
<somerville32> No one has reported being able to get it to work
<somerville32> If there is application I want to package but they don't offer it in a tarball, should I just tarball it?
<somerville32> (ie. they just give the one file)
<crimsun> wow. No, I think you're better off waiting a tick, then.
<somerville32> How long is a 'tick'? :] 
<Toadstool> enough time to package something else properly? ;)
<ScottK> I was thinking about doing this one, but it's a little beyond me yet: http://www.tummy.com/Community/software/tumgreyspf/
<somerville32> gpocentek, Do you remember the discussion about the notification daemon?
<gpocentek> somerville32: not really
<somerville32> gpocentek, Do we plan to ship it in Feisty? xfce-goodies has already stripped it of gnome stuff
<gpocentek> somerville32: I tested it, it never worked for me
<somerville32> gpocentek, Could we do something with notification-daemon?
<somerville32> I don't think we ship anything like it, do we?
<gpocentek> we dont, but do we really need this ?
<gpocentek> hum, wait
<gpocentek> no, we don't ship it
<somerville32> gpocentek, Is there anyway to see the reverse dependencies of notification-daemon?
<gpocentek> apt-cache rdepends <package>
<somerville32> gpocentek, Would it be possible to de-gnomify update-notifier or code our own applet?
<somerville32> gpocentek, I'm looking through the notification-daemon dependencies and it doesn't appear it pulls anything in that xubuntu-desktop doesn't already (though I only took a look at the most likely ones not to)
<gpocentek> somerville32: writting our own code would just be duplicating things, I'm not found of it
<somerville32> gpocentek, I agree.
<gpocentek> and de-gnomifying it is something that needs to be discuss with the desktop team
* Toadstool summons seb128
* somerville32 gets salt and makes a circle around himself.
<Toadstool> :)
* Hobbsee summons the mystery person
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: i think he's still on holidays...
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Toadstool> hehe
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee 
<Toadstool> how is it going?
<jdong> fu342jfeg
<jdong> AAH
<Toadstool> uhuh
<jdong> everyone, pretend you did not see that
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool good, just got home from work :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: why, what's it for?
<Hobbsee> doesnt appear to be his nickserv password
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: work?! you actually work in Australia? I'm impressed :)
* Toadstool runs
<jdong> hobbsee: I have absolutely no clue. it is certainly not a password to a gksu dialog that disappeared on me.
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: hahaha, yes.
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: well, i get paid from it, so i suppose it counts as work
<Toadstool> hehe
<Hobbsee> jdong: heh
* jdong pulls up pwgen and shops for a new password
<Hobbsee> hah
<Toadstool> too late!
<Toadstool> mwahaha
<somerville32> Can someone tell me if libcario2 is in the xubuntu-desktop task?
<Hobbsee> rdepends libcario2
<Toadstool> gosh, when I have time to spend on #u-motu, I'm kind of drunk... I feel so useless :p
<Hobbsee> add apt-cache in front
* Toadstool hides
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: heh, be useful :P
<somerville32> Hobbsee, apt-cache show libcario2
<somerville32> W: Unable to locate package libcario2
<somerville32> E: No packages found
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: tell that to 1) my manager 2) my girlfriend :)
<Toadstool> s/tell/say/
* Hobbsee thwacks somerville32 with a rubber mallet
<Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~$ rdepends libcairo2 | grep xubuntu
<Hobbsee>   xubuntu-system-tools
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: it's better to listen to your girlfriend.  and managers suck like that
<somerville32> apt-cache rdepends libcario2
<somerville32> W: Unable to locate package libcario2
<Toadstool> heh
* Hobbsee hands somerville32 a dictionary, and tells him to look up "cairo"
<somerville32> haha!
<Hobbsee> :P
<somerville32> gpocentek, If we added notification-daemon to the seeds then we'd only pull in libsexy2 and libwnck18 :)
<somerville32> crimsun: What do you think?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Tell them that people want nice pop-up notifications on their desktop ;] 
* gpocentek doesn't want notifications
<Hobbsee> somerville32: who's "them"?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, gpocentek 
<somerville32> and crimsun
<somerville32> :] 
<Toadstool> gpocentek: yeah, notifications are evil :)
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> It told me that my /boot partition was full
<somerville32> It is useful ;] 
<gpocentek> but notification-daemon itself doesn't do that alone
<somerville32> Right
<gpocentek> it's only usefull if we have software which uses it
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i'll respect gpocentek's decisions on xubuntu, as he runs it all the time
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I run Xubuntu all the time too : P
<Toadstool> :)
<Toadstool> gpocentek: by the way, a friend of mine installed edgy's xubuntu a couple of days ago, I told him to bug you in case something goes wrong... hope you don't mind :p
* Toadstool hides
<somerville32> I wonder what used the notification-daemon to tell me /boot was full
* somerville32 ponders.
<gpocentek> Toadstool: no problem ;)
<somerville32> gpocentek, Is there anything specific that I could help with?
<sistpoty> ScottK: for pyspf: why the alternatives? is spfquery supplied by another package as well?
<ScottK> Yes.
<sistpoty> ScottK: ah, k
<gpocentek> somerville32: well, there's a lot to do for documentationn... 
<ScottK> There is a PERL one and a C one.
<sistpoty> nice
<somerville32> gpocentek, lol :P
<gpocentek> somerville32: what do you want to get involved in ?
<gpocentek> development ?
<somerville32> gpocentek, Yes.
<somerville32> :)
<gpocentek> you can fix bugs :)
<sistpoty> ScottK: is the orig-tarball bit identical to the upstream one? (once again to lazy to look for myself)
<somerville32> gpocentek, Sure thing.
<ScottK> Yes.  Just renamed it.
<nixternal> jdong: don't feel bad for the password thing, i did it a few months ago logging into the uni's server, everyone in here got the username and password due to a buggy konsole on a live cd
<sistpoty> ScottK: fine... looks good
<ScottK> Great.
<jdong> nixternal: that makes me feel better :)
<jdong> I still need to learn the whole look before you type thing
<nixternal> ya, and someone used it to and logged in :)
<ScottK> Second time around is easier.
<sistpoty> ScottK: let me take another small look, and if no problems come up, I'll upload it
<ScottK> Thanks.  I'll be AFK for a while, so if there are more questions, I'll answer when i get back.
<somerville32> gpocentek, For feisty+1, could we lay out some sort of roadmap?
<gpocentek> somerville32: sure, that would help
<sistpoty> ScottK: all nice, uploading.
<somerville32> gpocentek, sabdfl usually sets some "goals" for each release. Do the sister projects (ie. us) align ourselves with these goals where applicable?
<somerville32> Or do we just do our own thing?
<gpocentek> somerville32: we try to follow the ideas
<gpocentek> but I'm not sure that we can have the same goals
* somerville32 nods.
<gpocentek> desktop effects for instace doesn't really fit the Xubuntu idea
<sistpoty> ok, and now I finally go to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<Laser_away> cya sistpoty 
* somerville32 moves to #xubuntu-devel.
<LaserJock> gpocentek and somerville32: does xfce have many related packages in Universe?
<gpocentek> LaserJock: almost everything is in main, except a few panel plugins
<LaserJock> darn, I need a "Icons for dummies" book or something. I suck at art :/
<siretart> slomo: yes, I already did a couple of uploads, 2 of them are currently in NEW
<siretart> shawarma: yes, we do :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: join the "we suck at art" user's group :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: but I'm determined to make a couple icons
<LaserJock> :-)
<nixternal> i have tried
<nixternal> i even follwed some gimp and inkscape tutorials
<Amaranth> i made the original alacarte icon
<nixternal> the coolest thing i have done with inkscape is http://www.nixternal.com
<Amaranth> i stole two icons from the guy that used to do ubuntu's icon set
<nixternal> and that was by accident
<Amaranth> put them into one :)
<LaserJock> well, I need to come up with at least 2 or 3
<LaserJock> chemistry ones
<crimsun_> Feisty is now pulseaudio-capable.
<LaserJock> sweet
<crimsun_> this is slick.
<crimsun_> per-application volumes
<LaserJock> I hardly ever use sound, but I know some people do :-)
<crimsun_> ability to migrate applications across audiosinks and mixers
<crimsun_> (and audiosources)
<LaserJock> hmm, that seems cool
<crimsun_> it's awesome
<crimsun_> it does way more, of course, but this is just a taste
<somerville32> Ugh oh!
<somerville32> : (
<somerville32> I upload with cody-somerville@ubuntu.com
<somerville32> but I login with cody.somerville@gmail.com
<somerville32> So I can't comment on my own uploads.
<tepsipakki> somerville32: been there.. don't remember how I resolved it, though
<somerville32> lol
<tepsipakki> maybe contact a REVU admin to add that address to the key?
<somerville32> How do I use patch again? lol
<somerville32> I generated it with diff -Nur
<tepsipakki> man patch
<tepsipakki> patch -px < patch.diff
<tepsipakki> use appropriate number for x
<somerville32> what are the different #'s for?
<tepsipakki> try and see :)
<somerville32> @now atlantic
<Ubugtu> Current time in Canada/Atlantic: January 07 2007, 04:48:57
* somerville32 gives tepsipakki puppy dog eyes.
<tepsipakki> really, man patch
<tepsipakki> it's too much to paste here
<tepsipakki> basically, it strips stuff from the file-paths
<somerville32> tepsipakki, How do I apply it to a directory?
<tepsipakki> 10:47 < tepsipakki> patch -px < patch.diff
<tepsipakki> :)
<somerville32> Lets say I'm not in the directory
<somerville32> like, I want to package blah/src/
<tepsipakki> use -p0
<tepsipakki> if you are in the parent
<tepsipakki> ie. in the path where you ran diff
<tepsipakki> hmm, -p1 that is
<tepsipakki> -p0 uses full paths, -p1 strips the first slash
<tepsipakki> (full paths related to the dir where diff was run)
<somerville32> k, thanks
<somerville32> Is anyone here good at editing patches by hand?
<Zic_> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
<Zic_> it's ...
<Zic_> He control the hardware now, and He decrease its quality
<Zic_> standing ovation to Vista :>
<siretart> somerville32: emacs offers a great mode for editing patches
<somerville32> siretart: thanks
<siretart> somerville32: it's call 'diff mode' :)
<somerville32> siretart: Can you fix a problem for me?
<somerville32> siretart: I login with cody.somerville@gmail.com
<somerville32> I upload with cody-somerville@ubuntu.com
<somerville32> So I can't comment on my own uploads
<siretart> oh. hmm
<siretart> somerville32: can't you login with cody-somerville@ubuntu.com?
<somerville32> I tried
<siretart> I'm syncing your passwords, okay?
<somerville32> ok
<siretart> somerville32: pw synced, try again :)
* somerville32 waddles over to revu.
<somerville32> siretart: http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=cody-somerville@ubuntu.com
<somerville32> shows nothing
<siretart> somerville32: yes, try to login with your old password for the @gmail.com adress
<siretart> somerville32: lostpw.py is confused by the keyid
<somerville32> Logged in as cody-somerville@ubuntu.com 
<siretart> :)
<Fujitsu> Anybody here good at debugging instances of /etc/X11/Xsession causing the executing shell to terminate when DISPLAY is set to that of a Xvnc instance compiled in Edgy, when the Dapper-compiled (identical source) version running on Edgy works fine?
<Fujitsu> (rather obscure, I know :P)
<siretart> oh darn, I just filed an ITP to debian, only to notice that keeypassx has already been uploaded to edgy :/
<Fujitsu> keepassx, you mean?
<siretart> yes
<Fujitsu> Hrm, I didn't realise that was only in Ubuntu... I use it daily at work.
<siretart> I just packaged it for debian. hrmpf
<tepsipakki> "Cross Plateform Password Manager" :)
<Amaranth> crimsun: The -3 and -4 kernels still don't fix my sound. Do you want new dumps of /proc/asound/card0/codec#0?
<crimsun__> of -5, yes
<crimsun__> and if you haven't attached lspci -nv, please do so.
<crimsun__> I'm very busy this week, but I'll try to work in time to look at it
<Amaranth> alright
<Amaranth> i didn't know -5 was out :)
<luks> hi, is there any way to check what happened to this package (if it was uploaded)? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3657
<geser> luks: the source got already accepted but the binary is sitting in the NEW queue: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=picard
<Hobbsee> you're just waiting on an archive admin
<Hobbsee> and soyuz to unfreeze
<cypher1> hi geser Hobbsee !
<geser> Hi cypher1 
<Hobbsee> heya
<geser> Hobbsee: is it once again freeze time?
<Hobbsee> geser: no
<Hobbsee> hey PriceChild 
<Hobbsee> geser: i dont think so
<luks> geser: oh, i wasn't aware that launchpad has info about the queue. thanks
<PriceChild> hey hobbsee
<PriceChild> when's freeze?
<Hobbsee> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu uses a strict timetable for releases, which means that sometimes newly released programs miss the timetable. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases for more. Feisty Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
<PriceChild> ty
<PriceChild> over a month :)
<geser> wasn't the archive partly freezed for Herd CD 1?
<geser> and next week is Herd CD 2 due
<PriceChild> 6 Herds :O
<PriceChild> wow
<Hobbsee> geser: doesnt mean taht will happen though.  it was on manual for herd 1
<cypher1> Hobbsee, i was working on the genpower merge :)
<Hobbsee> cypher1: yay :)
<cypher1> Hobbsee, it has some problems with upstart, sysinitv change
<Hobbsee> ah
<cypher1> thanks to geser to pointing it out to me
<cypher1> Hobbsee, it needs /usr/include/initreq.h from sysvinit package
<Q-FUNK> any Python wizard here?
<lifeless> for a few seconds
<lifeless> whatsup
<Q-FUNK> debian bug#374997
<lifeless> ...
<lifeless> you are aware this is an ubuntu channel ? :)
<Q-FUNK> yup
<lifeless> anyhow, I dont have time to chase pointers.
<lifeless> what is your question
<Q-FUNK> there's parsing errors for locales that are exception cases.
<lifeless> exception cases ?
<lifeless> and parsing what
<Q-FUNK> form what i can tell, Mithrandir's original code only handles foo_FOO to foo_FOO.UTF-8
<Q-FUNK> it has no provision for handling foo_FOO@euro to foo_FOO.UTF-8
<Q-FUNK> or for handling foo_FOO.ODDLEGACYENCODING to foo_FOO.UTF-8
<lifeless> I'm struggling here. Do you mean 'if LC_LANG=en_AU@euro then python will fail to startup correctly due to site.py having a defect' ?
<lifeless> ah well, gnight. note that @euro is not the same as UTF-8 to the best of my knowledge, and treating it as such would be a bug.
<lifeless> likewise legacy encodings
<lifeless> we should not crash on startup, but we may not have a valid encoding for the locale the uesr provides.
* lifeless -> sleep
<white> Q-FUNK: why is utf8-migration-tool a native package?
<Q-FUNK> white: because it is. no upstream, in practice.
<Q-FUNK> it used to be an ubuntu-specific tool, which is no longer needed at ubuntu.
<white> Q-FUNK: hmm 4.3.2 was never uploaded to debian, so maybe you want to merge the things?
<Q-FUNK> 4.3.2 ?
<white> a bullshit, 0.4.2
<Q-FUNK> yes it was
<Q-FUNK> it's in incoming now
<white> ah
<Q-FUNK> and 0.4.3 is already waiting to supplant it
<Q-FUNK> pending sponsoring
<Q-FUNK> or was there another 0.4.2 i'm not aware of?
<Q-FUNK> e.g. a fork?
<white> who did the last upload?
<white> no i just didn't check incoming, you are right
<Q-FUNK> http://q-funk.iki.fi/debian/pool/u/utf8-migration-tool/
<Q-FUNK> bubulle did.
<ryanakca> hmm... is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool used by anybody?
<markvandenborre> I can't find a qemulator package for feisty
<markvandenborre> should I file a wishlist bug about it? or is there a more appopriate way to ask?
<Q-FUNK> qemu
<bhale> can anyone give me a link for the nvidia-crazy-colors problem?
<cyberix> Why is festalon package in multiverse?
<cyberix> The copyright file says it is GPL
<cyberix> and it depends only on libc6
<rexbron> cyberix: look into what it does
<rexbron> cyberix: It may have patent issues
<cyberix> The Universe is full of emulators.
<rexbron> cyberix: I have encountered this problem before, you are going to have to do the research, but feel free to ask more questions or contact the ubuntu package maintainer
<cyberix> It is in Debian contrib. Does this mean it is lacking a Debian developer?
<white> cyberix: the fact that the package is in contrib does not have anything to do with the maintainer, e.g. if it is a developer or not
<TLE> Hay anyone got time for a question on dependency policy ?
<white> cyberix: it basically means that the package itself is free, but needs non-free stuff
<TLE> The question is. If a package aaa depends on a certain version of another package bbbb. Then if the version of bbb that is in the repo's meet the requirement of package aaa, is it then customary to exclude the versionnumber dependency in package aaa ?
<TLE> and just have a general package dependency without a versionnumber ?
<TLE> Let me know if I don't make sense
<bhale> i think what you asked was, if package a depends on package b version x, and package b version x happens to be in the ubuntu archive, do you depends on package b, leaving out the detail of x?
<bhale> the answer is no
<TLE> yeah exactly leaving out the detail of version x in a's dependensies.
<Q-FUNK> cyberix: contrib is an extra distinction on the freeness of a package.  the package itself could go in main (it is free code), but it is designed to interact with a non-free package.
<bhale> TLE: don't do that
<white> TLE: normally a >= can be used to indicate that the package needs a specific version and all future ones (if that is possible)
<Q-FUNK> cyberix: so a free package designed to interact with a non-free package goes into contrib, on the debian side.
<TLE> bhale: yeah ok, that is what I meant. IT IS NOT ok to leave out the detail, I was just reiterating what you said to make sure I understood it right
<bhale> yes
<bhale> you did.
<Q-FUNK> cyberix: ubuntu doesn't have contrib, though.
<cyberix> Q-FUNK: Festalon is in contrib and depends only on GNU C Library. :-/
<Q-FUNK> cyberix: it's not just a question of dependencies.
<rexbron> crimsun__: are you up?
<rexbron> crimsun: are you up?
<Q-FUNK> in your particular case, this is an emulator for a commercial, closed-source product.
<TLE> bhale: ok. it is for a bug I'm following. Now this affects the particular package in both dapper and edgy, is it serious enough to warrant a update ?
<Q-FUNK> or well, it emulates its sound engine.
<rexbron> Should a *-dev package depend on the runtime library?
<bhale> rexbron: yes.
<rexbron> bhale: k thanks
<bhale> TLE: probably not, SRU proceedures mostly involve data loss or regressions
<TLE> ok thanks for your time
<bhale> no problem
<guyjohnston> hi, i asked a question a few days ago about why the game tremulous is in multiverse rather than universe. does anyone know if this has been found out?
<Adri2000> guyjohnston: because http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/t/tremulous/tremulous_1.1.0-3/copyright
<guyjohnston> which part of that means it's in multiverse?
<guyjohnston> aren't those all free licences?
<imbrandon> looks like the media isnt 
<imbrandon> infact it isnt mentioned what lic its under at all , strange that made it in
<guyjohnston> it is in the 'copyright' file for the 'tremulous-data' package
<guyjohnston> its the creative commons attribution-sharealike
<guyjohnston> i'd have thougt that counts as a free licence
<rexbron> hey
<rexbron> I am trying to build a package and it requiures the python2.3 header files,
<rexbron> where can I get them for ubuntu?
<Adri2000> rexbron: if you are packaging a python program you need to take a look at the debian python policy
<rexbron> Adri2000: it is a  binary module I am not sure if that counts as a program
<Adri2000> a kernel module?
<rexbron> Adri2000: NO
<rexbron> opps
<rexbron> sorry
<rexbron> capslock
<rexbron> Adri2000: it is a python module
<Adri2000> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ > http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html ?
<MehdiHassanpour> Hi MOTU
<MehdiHassanpour> beside ttf-freefarsi that I've asked to be added in Feisty universe, I wanted to ask for aspell-hy too
<MehdiHassanpour> they are both in Debian unstable now
<fdoving> MehdiHassanpour: please make bug reports in launchpad for both. i belive subscribing the group 'ubuntu-universe-sponsors' to the bugreport will speed things up.
<MehdiHassanpour> should I ask those packages in ubuntu-universe-sponsors ?
<MehdiHassanpour> there is now such list @ lists.ubuntu.com
<fdoving> MehdiHassanpour: i mean, you should make bugreports at http://bugs.ubuntu.com, then you should subscribe the launchpad-group ubuntu-universe-sponsors ( https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors ). They are the ones handling these cases, iirc.
<MehdiHassanpour> fdoving: ok thanks
<MehdiHassanpour> :)
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hi
* ajmitch is not really here
<LaserJock> hehe
<ajmitch> dsl is down at home
* ajmitch is off to get food anyway
<nixternal> new upstream multiverse packages, can they be put on revu as well, or is there a different procedure?
<LaserJock> same, although I don't know if I'd use REVU for a new upstream version
<nixternal> how should i go about it?
<LaserJock> nixternal: if there isn't a big difference debdiff it
<LaserJock> if there is  lot of changes put the whole source packages somewhere
<nixternal> k
<nixternal> debdiff == 240k
<Lutin> is there a motureviewer around that could have a look to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3981 ?
<joejaxx> Hello All :)
<Sp4rKy> hi joejaxx :)
<joejaxx> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-31
<wolfger> I have some questions on the PackagingGuide/Basic wiki page.
<wolfger> 1) a "rules" file is not needed for a package that not written in C/C++, right?
<broonie> You *always* need a rules file.
<wolfger> 2) what the heck are postinst and prerm, and are they unique per package or always the same?
<broonie> They are per-package scripts which are run after the package is installed (postinst) and before it is removed (prerm).
<wolfger> 2a) this page says nothing about postinst and prerm other than "copy them". If I'm building a package for a brand new app (which I am), how does that work? Should I copy these from another package and best-guess my way through it?
<broonie> Yes. The commands below are saying to copy them out of the hello package.
<pochu> You usually don't need prerm/preinst/postinst/postrm
<broonie> You might find it easier to look at an existing package while you're reading this and matching up what it's doing with what the guide says.
<wolfger> broonie: can you recommend a simple package that is all, say, Python. I  think that would help immensely.
<Ng> Would anyone care to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=terminator, a python script for packing oodles of terminals into one window? (my first revu upload, so be gentle ;)
<pochu> Ng: I'll take a look, as I'm interested on it ;)
<Ng> \o/
<broonie> wolfger: A program or a module? For a program scons has fairly simple packaging (the program itself is a bit complicated but the packaging is simple)
<Amaranth> Ng: You made a debian native package?
<pochu> Ng: is there a good reason for it to be native?
<pochu> I think upstream did it, right?
<Amaranth> I thought he was upstream
 * pochu installed that from the ppa :)
<pochu> hmm, right :)
<wolfger> broonie: scons should work great, then. Thanks
<Ng> Amaranth: pochu: I am upstream and the packager and it's in neither debian nor ubuntu atm, so that seemed like the right thing to do, but I'm happy to change it if not :)
<Amaranth> It shouldn't be a native package
<Ng> mmkay
<Amaranth> Unless you think it's only useful in Ubuntu
<pochu> Ng: you don't need debian/dirs
<pochu> I'd make it priority: optional
<pochu> Ng: by the way it looks promising
<Ng> done and done
<Ng> :)
<pochu> I need to try the full-screen patch btw
<wolfger> broonie: apt-get source scons is giving me "no such file or directory" error :-(
<Ng> pochu: I'm going to get another release out in the next few days with all of the latest goodness :)
<Ng> (or you can grab from trunk ;)
<pochu> Ng: Standards-Version > 3.7.3. Description - don't repeat in short description the package name.
 * Ng nods
<pochu> E: terminator_0.7_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<pochu> W: terminator: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/terminator
<pochu> W: terminator: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/terminator
<pochu> W: terminator: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/terminator
<pochu> W: terminator: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/terminator
<pochu> W: terminator: copyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate
<pochu> W: terminator: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/terminator
<pochu> W: terminator: copyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate
<pochu> W: terminator: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/terminator
<pochu> W: terminator: copyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate
<pochu> woops :-(
<Fujitsu> Erk, pastebin.
 * pochu blames his SSH connection
<Fujitsu> Distribution should be hardy...
<Fujitsu> Why so many of the same warnings?
<pochu> Fujitsu: because my connection was lagging and I thought it was me not pressing mouse1 and mouse2 buttons at the same time ;)
<Ng> with stuff like the distribution and the native package thing, should I change all of the changelog entries or just the most recent?
<pochu> you should move the upstream changelog to ChangeLog, and leave debian/changelog for the packaging things
<Hobbsee> Ng: most recent
<Ng> aha, on both counts
<Hobbsee> Ng: changing released stuff is usually not a great idea.  audit, and all
<Ng> in which case it's quite tempting to blow away debian/changelog entirely
<Ng> Hobbsee: yeah, that's what I figured, but I'm not sure where the line is for stuff that's not really in a proper archive yet
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> usually you don't, anyway
<pochu> Ng: you need to follow http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy . Basically choose either python-central or python-support, and add the right dependencies and XS-Python-Versions and XB-Python-Versions.
<pochu> And add DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pycentral (or pysupport) to the begin of debian/rules
<pochu> Ng: look at the CDBS + distutils section in that page, and ignore the control.in thing.
<Ng> pochu: ok. is one better/officialer?
<pochu> Ng: Ubuntu prefers python-central as it's written by doko, but I don't think one is better
<pochu> But pysupport should be ok too, so feel free to choose it.
<broonie> wolfger: scons is in universe\
<broonie> IIRC
<wolfger> broonie: well, it was complaining of a directory on my local not being found... I created that dir (archive.canonical.com_ubuntu_dists_gutsy_commercial_source_Sources) and now I get "E: Read error - read (21 Is a directory)"
<wolfger> so I've no idea what I've done wrong, or not done right
<slangasek> that's not supposed to be a directory, it's supposed to be a file; and you aren't supposed to create it, you're supposed to get it via apt-get update (directly or through one of the interfaces that wraps this functionality)
<wolfger> slangasek: okay, removed the directory I created, did sudo apt-get update then sudo apt-get source scons, and I still am getting the "no such file or directory" error
<slangasek> wolfger: surely you're getting some error output when you run apt-get update?
<pochu> night
<wolfger> slangasek: right you are. Not sure why I didn't notice it
<wolfger> Failed to fetch http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/Release  Unable to find expected entry  commercial/binary-i386/Packages in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?)
<StevenK> wolfger: Can you pastebin your sources.list file?
<wolfger> StevenK: pastebin?
<StevenK> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<wolfger> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50222/
<zul> heylo
<wolfger> hi zul
<Fujitsu> wolfger: It's partner, not commercial.
<wolfger> Fujitsu: you're saying I should change lines 47 and 48 from pastebing to say "partner"?
<Fujitsu> wolfger: Yes.
<wolfger> great. Thanks to everybody for their help. (those lines are throwbacks to Tribe 4 or Tribe 5 installation)
<wolfger> ls
<imbrandon> hrm i was almost sure there was a svalib based rdesktop client
<StevenK> imbrandon: If there is, it needs to die.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> how else do you propose to use rdesktop without X ?
<Fujitsu> Why would you?
<Daviey> client or server?
<imbrandon> client
<zul> imbrandon: im with Fujitsu on this one
<Daviey> imbrandon: framebuffer...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ultra thinclient
<zul> imbrandon: well get cracking on one ;)
<imbrandon> heh nah
<imbrandon> got better things to do
<imbrandon> xfbdev would probably work as well
<StevenK> If imbrandon learns how to code svgalib, I'll brain him myself
<Daviey> directFB would rock
<imbrandon> lol
<Daviey> x11vnc would also be good
<imbrandon> there is directvnc that, but no directrdp
 * persia grumbles about latency: if REVU can feed me 3 streams at 140kps, it ought be able to feed me one stream at 420kps :(
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> Is there a limit on package size?  Is 534MB of source too much?
<Fujitsu> *ouch*
<Fujitsu> Some of the FPSes are huge, like sauerbraten.
<Fujitsu> Though that's only ~350MB, IIRC.
<sladen> 534MB of *source code*
<sladen> or is that data, binary stuff?
<persia> Fujitsu: That's what I was thinking.  It's another game (I'm not yet sure if it's FPS).  Nice graphics are good, but I wonder if we oughtn't have a policy to avoid a future import of a 7-CD set.
<Fujitsu> It is getting a bit iffy. That's a significant percentage of the current archive size.
<persia> sladen: 534MB of "source" for a -data package.  I'm not sure what it contains yet, due to the annoyances of TCP ACK throttled connections.
<sladen> moo.
<psusi> am I loosing my mind or is my diff being retarded?
<persia> psusi: Likely a combination, but diagnosis is tricky without more context
<psusi> diff foo foo-mine shows no changes, but diff foo/bar foo-mine/bar does
<cyberix> I'll go take a nap now. Please dig up some problems for me to fix once I get up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
<sladen> diff -r ?
<persia> psusi: diff -urN
<psusi> there we go ;)
<psusi> hehe... why on earth would it not recurse by default? heh
<persia> psusi: If it recursed by default there'd be no easy way to determine if two directories had the same set of files.
<psusi> howso?
<persia> psusi: Currently diff foo/ bar/ tells you if foo/ and bar/ have a different set of files.  If it recursed, it would instead tell you how the files in foo/ and bar/ differed.
<psusi> huh?  if it recursed by default then it would just tell you what files in their subdirs differed as well
<psusi> if you don't care, either ignore those parts of the output or add a NOT recurse flag :)
<persia> psusi: Right, which would be useless when comparing two runs of a data collection tool to make sure the same set of samples was collected (when you expect to take a week or two to understand the differences)
<psusi> hrm... now to remember how to dpatchify a package
<persia> Ubulette: This is the first REVU day that mozilla-devscripts has been open for review (last week was canceled due to hardware issues).  I'm reviewing it now.
<Ubulette> persia, don't bother, i'm maintaining it elsewhere now (and i've made a new version - remember i'm the author)
<persia> Ubulette: OK.  You sure you don't want to put a candidate up?  I thought this would considerably simplify the maintenance of the mozilla packages.
<Ubulette> it was my initial goal
<Ubulette> but no review from here, and no sponsoring from asac despite his initial interest, so I asked for it to be nuked earlier today (well, yesterday now)
<persia> Ubulette: No review on REVU is just a matter of colliding against bad timing and a hardware failure.  I've advocated it, as the package looks perfectly clean (although I've a couple nitpicks, easily addressed by a new revision).
<persia> On the other hand, if it's not useful to mozilla maintainers, I can re-archive it.  Your call.
<Ubulette> i've fixed a bug since i've posted it
<Ubulette> and i've made 0.02
<Ubulette> with new features
<persia> Ubulette: Was 0.01 distributed widely?  If not, perhaps no need to bump the version.
<Ubulette> it was not
<psusi> wtf?  dpatch apply breaks if the patch file starts with a description?
<persia> psusi: Only if the description isn't formatted according to dpatch rules.
<psusi> why does it have special rules and where are those listed?
<persia> psusi: To differentiate it from comments as part of a patch, and in the manual page.
<Ubulette> persia, ok, i'll try once again that revu thing. i've pushed 0.02
<persia> (man -S7 patch, in case that isn't clear)
<persia> s/patch/dpatch/
<persia> Ubulette: Thanks.  I've a couple in queue, but will hit it again in an hour or two.
<psusi> persia: the man page doesn't appear to mention this, and what do you mean "to differentiate it from comments as part of the patch"?  patch already understands they are comments
<persia> psusi: To differentiate patch comments from dpatch comments.  Read DPATCH(7)
<psusi> ahh... other section of the manual...
<psusi> ahhh, that's why... the patch file is supposed to be a script
<psusi> first line needs to be a patch shbang
<persia> psusi: Consider dpatch-edit-patch to avoid confusion
<psusi> already worked on the code, now just breaking it out into patches
<persia> psusi: That makes it easy.  Make a monolithic patch.  Break it out with filterdiff.  Apply the broken out patches individually with dpatch-edit-patch.
<psusi> hrm... filterdiff eh?  I usually just use emacs in diff mode
<persia> psusi: That works too :)
<persia> Ubulette: Thanks.  Let me know when it's done, and I'll hit it next (as this is the right channel - oops :) )
<persia> Ah.  Changelog should have all the entries, so you if you want this to be 0.2, you should also have the 0.1 changelog, and describe the differences for 0.2
<Ubulette> debian changelog or upstream ?
<persia> Ubulette: Since you want this to be a native package, they are the same (part of why I don't like native packages).
<Ubulette> debian changelog is supposed to contain only versions that has been posted, right ?
<persia> Ubulette: Ideally, which is why I suggest this should still be 0.1, as it hasn't been widely distributed.
<Ubulette> persia, could I push 0.01 on top of 0.02 ???
<persia> Ubulette: Sure.  REVU doesn't care about versions.
<Ubulette> done
<imbrandon> brb
<TheMuso> o/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<Ubulette> persia, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1115
<persia> Ubulette: Great.  It's next in my queue (unless someone else gets it first)
<Ubulette> thx. going to sleep. need stamina for tonight
<minghua> Oh, it's REVU day again?
<persia> minghua: Every Monday (barring hardware issues).
<nixternal> there are hardware issues
<persia> nixternal: Not today :)
<nixternal> amd64 and i386 seem to be working fine, but not everything else
<nixternal> I have been building kde4 all night long
<nixternal> chroot problems according to the logs
<Fujitsu> Right, powerpc and sparc are waiting on infinity.
<persia> nixternal: Ah.  That's archive problems, not REVU problems (but still annoying).
<nixternal> oh, revu hardware problems :)
<nixternal> ya, I would definitely hurry up now that you said that, possibly a jinx
<persia> nixternal: Right.  Last week there was an overheating issue, now resolved.
<imbrandon> ugh
<nixternal> hahahhaa
<nixternal> overheating.... persia slow down on the reviewing then if you are overheating it
<nixternal> how the hell could someone upload a damn package, when the names of the patches in the series file were not the same as the patches in directory?
<nixternal> it keeps failing to build, but somehow, someway, someone did it
<persia> nixternal: dput
<persia> Ubulette: advocated.  I'm still unhappy about native w/upstream changelog, etc., but this is pointless nitpicking.
<persia> Anyone have a package waiting for REVU, before I go back to FIFO processing?
<nixternal> persia: well ya, but the packages built in the buildd's just fine
<persia> nixternal: Shouldn't be a big issue.  If there are patches not referenced in the series file, those patches don't get applied.  Of course, that doesn't explain why it FTBFS for you.
<nixternal> hrmm, there were patches referenced in the series file, but they weren't in the patches directory
<nixternal> well they were, but the names were different
<nixternal> anywho, fixed the ftbfs, but still weird
<nixternal> food time
<persia> ember: somerville32: Vorian: Please consider submitting your updated packages to the U-U-S queue.  They are likely good fixes, and may be being ignored on REVU.
<somerville32> persia, ok
<liri> persia: should the webapps package I upload be built as source package?
<persia> liri: Every package that enters the archive must enter as a source package.  The source package then generates one or more binary packages for installation on user systems.  In the case of a webapps package, these "binary" packages frequently contain the source of the web application for interpretation by the framework.
<persia> Separately, I don't really know that much about web application packaging: you'll do better to ask the channel generally, as you might get an answer from someone who actually knows the subject about which they write.
<persia> Could someone on i386 or powerpc please check to see if livemix on REVU segfaults a lot?  The packaging looks clean, and the package works for me, except segfaulting most of the time.  If it's architecture-specific, this should be a bug, rather than blocking upload.
<cyberix> Is there any package in Gutsy that uses the homepage header?
<persia> cyberix: the Homepage: header wasn't supported in Gutsy.
<cyberix> Oh
<liri> persia: alright. I was just wondering how would I go about packaging a webapps (collection of scripts) package as source package
<liri> Maybe I could contact a maintainer of a webapps package from the Ubuntu packages list
<persia> liri: Understood.  I'm just not the right person to answer that.  You might look at one of the existing webapp packages in the repository as an example.
<cyberix> persia: The linda/lintian minus/hyphen warning for malbolge package looks like a false alarm to me.
<persia> liri: Or just take a look at an example, and ask specific questions here.
<persia> cyberix: It's not.  I checked the manpage source.
<cyberix> persia: But it is part of a filename.
<persia> cyberix: In which case you want to use \- as otherwise copy & paste will fail.
<cyberix> oh
<cyberix> man renders - as a hyphen?
<persia> cyberix: I forget which is the default behaviour, but not specifying a minus means that your manpage might break if that behaviour ever differs for any reason.  Using \- means it will always work.
<liri> persia: well, I'm wondering how/where to put the scripts for the source package? should the .diff generated contain those scripts also or only the debian/ directory?
<liri> persia: I was thinking about looking at other source packages but I'm unable to conclude how they got build in the first place (in terms of what to put where...)
<persia> liri: I don't have enough context to understand what you mean.  Typically, the contents of the package that are to be packaged belong in ./ and the description of the packaging belongs in ./debian/.  The diff.gz contains any modifications not included upstream, along with the ./debian/ directory.  The building takes place according to the instructions in debian/rules.
<liri> persia: I probably need someone experienced with webapps packaging to work on this with me
<persia> liri: That sounds likely.  You might send an email to ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com with a description of what you are trying to accomplish, a link to your work in progress, and a description of the problem you are encountering.
<Fujitsu> What is this webapp? Is it written in PHP? Does upstream follow the usual PHP-upstream theory of not releasing security updates? Should I scream?
<liri> Fujitsu: php indeed.
<Fujitsu> persia: Are we allowed to reject packages on the basis that they have lots of security holes and upstream is insane with regard to releasing patches for them?
<persia> liri: Are you upstream?
<liri> persia: yes. I'm the author of the software
<Fujitsu> Because I'd like such a guideline, even if it doesn't apply here.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, as long as we can show we spoke with upstream to demonstrate that.
<persia> liri: Great.  If you can convince Fujitsu you will support security updates, I suspect he may be able to point you to an example or two :)
<liri> persia: I'd love that, all in all it is in my personal interest to keep my software secured more than it is Fujitsu's :)
<persia> Fujitsu: More generally, any software with multiple RC issues (including open security problems) that upstream can not / will not / does not address becomes a candidate for removal.
<liri> Fujitsu: would you need to review the code?
<Fujitsu> Basically, does it have a Wordpress- or phpMyAdmin-like security track record?
<liri> Fujitsu: I'm not aware of wordpress or phpmyadmin's security track record
<Fujitsu> Well, WordPress has had approximately 50 CVEs in the past 18 months.
<Fujitsu> And they don't normally release patches for each issue.
<liri> Fujitsu: well I haven't received any emails yet regarding security (the community around it is still growing but it's not close to being anything like wordpress/phpmyadmin users base)
<liri> Fujitsu: you could go over websvn, I'd really appreciate every comment on security and will do my best to attend to it
 * Fujitsu generally likes to avoid PHP.
<Fujitsu> What's the name of the project?
<liri> Fujitsu: daloradius
<wraund> guys im adding a little .desktop file to SearchandRescue, only problem is I cant remmeber where it goes, in the root of /debian?
<persia> wraund: It goes upstream.  If it can't go there, it goes in debian/
<wraund> persia: good good :)
<persia> License Question: Does "... any distribution of the object code of the Software in a physical product must provide you the right to access and modify the source code for the Software and to reinstall that modified version of the Software in object code form on the same physical product on which you received it." mean that the code can only be distributed on rewritable media?
<minghua> Huh, sounds like so.  Is that from GPL v3? :-P
<persia> minghua: No, from some annoying Red Hat "supplementary conditions" file.  I suspect even Fedora doesn't comply with that licensing.
<minghua> persia: Oh, and you can distribute it on flash disks, too.  (Sorry to be pedantic, but couldn't resist. :-)
<persia> minghua: is not "rewritable media" a superset including "flash disks"?
<minghua> persia: Hmm.  Perhaps.  Sorry.
<persia> minghua: No need to be sorry.  I am a confirmed pendant.  If you correct me (correctly), I am happier :)
<Fujitsu> persia: That is a really strange license.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  There's also a special note that the United Nations Convention on the International Sales of Goods shall not apply, which I'm trying to understand.  I'm suspecting it's a multiverse candidate, which is funny, as ttf-liberation is supposed to replace a different multiverse candidate.
<Fujitsu> How very liberated.
<persia> Well, it at least allows people to play the "Yes, I wish to exchange overlords, please" card.
<Fujitsu> I guess.
<Fujitsu> What's the alternative? Some Microsoft core font?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  Arial, Courier, and Times New Roman.
<Fujitsu> Ah, old.
<persia> old?
<Fujitsu> Haven't they all been replaced?
<persia> Do you mean by Vera?
<minghua> I suspected it would be liberation fonts.  Debian-legal seems to think it's non-free material, though I admit not having read the actual discussions.
<Fujitsu> No, the new Microsoft C*
<persia> Fujitsu: No idea.  I don't really follow Microsoft fonts.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Liberation has the same metrics (height, width) as the MS web core fonts.  The Vera/DejaVu fonts don't.
<minghua> Sorry, that should be for persia.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Ahh.
<persia> minghua: Right.  Still, it's just an overlord exchange in my book.
<minghua> Then again, the C* fonts probably don't have the same metrics as corefonts either.
<Fujitsu> Why do they have such a deranged license?
<minghua> So people will still use those for web pages.
<minghua> Redhat would be a more benevolent overlord than MS, I assume. :-)
<Fujitsu> One would hope so.
 * persia doesn't know.  MS labs does good stuff, and their open code tends to be nice.  The fonts concerned have been free-as-in-beer for years.
<minghua> persia: Only because their original license didn't forbid redistribution.  You can no longer download them from MS website.
<persia> Well, the bit about the UN convention on international sale of goods appears to indicate that US law applies to these fonts, rather than the law in the location where the fonts are to be used, and not have any other impact.  I guess it's just the rewritable media bit that makes it multiverse.
<persia> minghua: Sure.  Upstream abandons stuff sometimes.  When it's useful, it gets mirrored.
 * minghua doesn't think it's that simple.
<persia> minghua: Why not?  How is Microsoft any different than any other corporate upstream?
<minghua> Those fonts, at least Times New Roman, are still installed by default and widely used in Windows system interface in XP.  So I wouldn't call it "abandoned".  But they stopped downloads on their websites long before that.
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Upstream closed newer revisions.  I think we've a few other packages like that in the archive.
<minghua> persia: Right.  My impression is, MS distributed those fonts to get domination on web page font usage, and pull the carpet once it gets the dominant position.
<minghua> I'm sure someone in MS regretted allowing redistribution of those fonts.
<persia> minghua: Sure.  Didn't bittorrent do that recently?  Doesn't make the old version bad.
<minghua> persia: The old version isn't bad (I like MS corefonts), the company is (Bittorrent is becoming bad IMHO, too).
<Fujitsu> persia: Wait, how is it even multiverse, with a nasty redistribution restriction?
<persia> minghua: I don't disagree with that, I just don't see how having competing free-as-in-beer fonts makes any difference.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Only becoming bad?
<persia> Fujitsu: Mostly for PR, I'd guess.  I'd rather a complete repack without using the RedHat trademark, but wouldn't be surprised to see it appear, regardless of what I post to REVU.
<Fujitsu> persia: The rewriteability requirement would exclude it from multiverse, wouldn't it?
<minghua> persia: To be fair, MS corefonts' license is much more restrictive.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I am not really following the bittorrent company story.
<persia> Fujitsu: Depends on how you interpret it.  Clause 1b in the addendum in http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/ttf-liberation-0712210130/ttf-liberation-0.2/debian/copyright only appears to apply to physical products.
<Fujitsu> persia: Even so. Isn't multiverse meant to be safe to distribute regardless of medium?
<Fujitsu> ie. I can burn a CD?
<persia> Fujitsu: There's lots of stuff in there that's not safe to distribute without conditions.  Especially stuff that cannot be sold.  I'm not sure if we require the ability to distribute non-rewritable optical discs.  Ask elmo.
<persia> For personal use, burning a CD is perfectly fine: you just can't distribute that CD.
<Fujitsu> Hmm.
<Fujitsu> It still seems particularly nasty. I really don't like it.
<Fujitsu> But I defer to elmo.
<persia> Fujitsu: I don't like it either, but I don't feel it's my place to make the decision.  I didn't like pq either (and still don't).
<Fujitsu> That ended up going in, didn't it? :(
<persia> Yes.  It is now in the archives.  Further, it is in the archives for an LTS, so we have to hope upstream supports it for security & bugfixes until April 2013.
<Fujitsu> Um, yeah, yay.
 * persia doubts upstream will still be active then
<Fujitsu> Shall I find another 50,000 or so beer-free Windows apps now?
<Fujitsu> They should be accepted, so I'd better get busy on them.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'd prefer you waited for hardy+1 to upload them all.  I'm afraid that such controversy would adversely impact LTS preparation.
<Fujitsu> Quite possibly. But we've just made a nasty step down a very long, steep, slippery slope.
<persia> Yes.  I'd actually like to see the 50,000 free-as-in-beer apps submitted to multiverse in hardy+1 (all with runtime dependencies on wine).
<CheGuevara> lol
<persia> CheGuevara: The point would be to point out the absurdity of current policy, not to actually have them included.
<Fujitsu> Was policy ever discussed after mdz (I think?) provided his opinion?
<persia> Fujitsu: No, and it was elmo to whom the decision was delegated (although mdz did express an opinion)
<Fujitsu> Can't we have a MOTU meeting and block such situations again?
<Fujitsu> Right, I forget exactly.
<persia> Not directly.  MOTU Meeting can raise an issue to MC who can raise it to TB, but MOTU Meeting cannot override TB.
<Fujitsu> Surely we can impose additional restrictions on multiverse licensing, or at least on new packages, without an official TB stance change?
<Fujitsu> If not, I guess we must convince the TB.
<CheGuevara> persia: yeah i figured :P
<persia> Fujitsu: Some subset of us can agree not to upload such packages to multiverse, but only MC decision is binding for all MOTUs, and only TB decision is binding for all ubuntu-dev.
 * persia notes that MC tends to follow MOTU best practice recommendations, and TB tends to follow MC recommendations in most cases
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: ping
<apachelogger_> hellboy195: pong
 * persia dislikes virtual table tennis
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: KMuddy is a MUD client for KDE desktop environment  -->  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD
<apachelogger_> hellboy195: yeah, already got a description, thanks :)
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: ok, np
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: from your list I only know 2 by name. I only tried out Jahshaka
<apachelogger_> jashaka is like totally over the top
 * apachelogger_ didn't manage to use it
<minghua> Fujitsu: Hmm, how can a slope be bother very long and very steep? :-)
<persia> minghua: It just needs to be very large.
<minghua> You mean very deep?
<minghua> ... or very tall, depending on the perspective ...
<persia> minghua: Yes.
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: because? too complicated or b0rken?
<apachelogger_> hellboy195: too complicate
<persia> Does anyone have a strong opinion about $(MAKE) -j $(NCPUS) in debian/rules?
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: mostly when something is too complicate it's fucking powerful but yeah I also worked with it a long time .. :)
<apachelogger_> hellboy195: powerful != bad usability
<persia> !language | hellboy195
<ubotu> hellboy195: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<minghua> persia: No idea.  Although I'm aware of the existence of http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=209008
<ubotu> Debian bug 209008 in debian-policy "debian-policy: [PROPOSAL] common interface for parallel building in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS" [Wishlist,Open]
<hellboy195> persia: sry :(
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: but often xD for me ...
<persia> minghua: Thanks.  I guess it's policy-in-transition, so I shan't worry about it now.
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: work for you. If you are interested ^^ https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/179528
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179528 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Kalva " [Undecided,New]
<apachelogger_> hellboy195: looks interesting
<hellboy195> apachelogger_: :)
<persia> 5 packages are now awaiting second advocates (and 20 waiting for a first advocate).  Please trim the list at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/
<persia> superm1: Is there any documentation on the nature of the apparently massive changes to /etc/lirc/hardware.conf?
<jscinoz> hey everyone
<jscinoz> i've gotten feedback on a few packages of mine, but as I'm new to this i need clarification on a few terms, when the commenter states "Please update to a new debhelper compatibility version. â5â is the current standard. " is this referring to the Standards-Version line in debian/control?
<persia> jscinoz: Create a file called debian/compat containing the single character '5'
<jpatrick> jscinoz: it's refering to the debian/compat file
<jscinoz> oh thanks :)
<jscinoz> also.
<man-di> jscinoz: and also to the Build-Depends line, then you should B-D on debhelper (>= 5) too
<jscinoz> yeah i have the build dependso ne
<jscinoz> one*
<man-di> jscinoz: and you might need to adjust your debian/*.install files
<jscinoz> also, i have left over .svn directories in many subfolders of my source package, the commenter mentions running svn export when "preparing the tarball" is this done in the debian/rules file or manually?
<man-di> jscinoz: this is done when creating the upstream tarball (or orig tarball)
<jscinoz> ah :P
<jscinoz> late on new years eve here bit sleepy :P
<cyberix> What is "a watch file to collect new upstream sources"?
<ion_> cyberix: See uscan(1)
<ion_> Does anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=apt-mark-sync? :-) Itâs a program to synchronize the âautomatically/manually installedâ status of packages between apt, aptitude, debfoster and deborphan. I believe i have fixed the issues pointed out in the previous reviews. Also, it would be nice to get a second person to advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected, a program that indicates whether ...
<ion_> ... given hardware exists in the system (intended for scripting).
<persia> ion_: You should really complain to upstream about the upstream version sequencing.  It's very surprising.
<ion_> persia: A lot of software seems to do that, e.g. compiz. But ok, iâll do a 0.0.1 release. A moment...
<persia> ion_: No big rush.  If the next upstream is 0.0.1, I'm happy :)
<persia> ion_: apt-mark-sync advocated.  Nice clean-up job.
<ion_> Ok, thanks
<ion_> Iâll use 0.0.1 as the next release, then.
<persia> ion_: Thanks.  Assuming your package is wildly popular, it will reduce the number of people who complain that we're shipping an outdated VCS snapshot.
<LucidFox> Is there a place to request Tango-style icons?
<jscinoz> is an packagename_version.orig.tar.gz required if the package has never been packaged on debian/ubuntu before?
<geser> LucidFox: iirc ``Cube asked in #launchpad which projects needs an (tango) icon
<geser> jscinoz: yes, that's the upstream source from which the deb gets build in the end
<jscinoz> alright, if the only available source of the package is contained in a zip, should i extract and put the original source in a tar.gz
<geser> yes
<jscinoz> ok
<jscinoz> also..
<jscinoz> if i have made man pages for the binaries in my packages. should i have the debian/rules script gzip them? or have them already gzip'd and just copied to the appropriate location?
<man-di> jscinoz: dh_compress does this for you
<jscinoz> i'll look up how to use it, thanks :)
<man-di> jscinoz: if you use CDBS for packaging its already done for you automatically
<jscinoz> im just using plain old debhelper, with scripts i've scavenged and reworked from similar packages :P
<man-di> jscinoz: then just make sure you call dh_compress in the appropriate targets in the correct place
<jscinoz> thanks :)
<cyberix> So, can I find an example watch file for a Launchpad project somewhere?
<jscinoz> yeah i need an example watch file too :P
<persia> There are a few examples of watch files in the uscan manual page.  There might be another LP hosted project on REVU...
<jscinoz> cheers
<jscinoz> uscan man page had what i  needed to know
<persia> Bah.  I saw one recently, but can't find it on REVU.  Apologies.
<cyberix> Should my watch file just report an upgrade being available or do some hard magic?
<slytherin> cyberix: what hard magic?
<slytherin> cyberix: watch file should just have a url in the form of regular expression which will correspond to new release
<jscinoz> is this a valid URL for in the watch file? ftp://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/urbanterror/iourbanterror/source/complete/ioUrbanTerrorSource_(.*)\.zip
<jscinoz> i know its a zip not a targz my get-orig-source handles that and makes the orig.tar.gz
<slytherin> jscinoz: if you have get-orig-source then perhaps you don't need watch file. Please confirm it from someone else
<jscinoz> yeah i need both according to the commenter on my revu packages
 * persia likes both get-orig-source and a watch file
<slytherin> jscinoz: Ok. Is the application available only from a single download location?
<persia> jscinoz: That might complain due to the number of '/' characters.  Try sticking it in a watch file, and calling uscan --report-status from the package directory.
<jscinoz> there are many mirrors of it i think
<jscinoz> ill try hang on
<jscinoz> nope doesnt complain :P
<jscinoz> seems fine
<persia> slytherin: Just to expand, in addition to helping collect the upstream tarball, a watch file helps populate http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.php, which helps us try to keep Ubuntu-local software up to date.
<slytherin> jscinoz: I guess you should then use the central url instead of a url to specific mirror
<jscinoz> there isnt a central one i'm aware of >_<
<slytherin> persia: thanks for info.
<frafu> persia: thanks for the review of mousetweaks in revu. However I have a few questions. point 3: What do you mean that the .desktop files do not validate. Point 4: manpages even if they do not have a cli interface? Point 5: the text of the licenses is in the package. Has it not been uploaded?
<jscinoz> hmm slight problem
<jscinoz> the thing im packaging, the versioning scheme differs slightly for how i'm going to include it in ubuntu and how it is on the upstream site
<persia> frafu: 3) I get output from desktop-file-validate in a hardy chroot.  4) Yes.  If something is confusing, the user should expect that `man program` will tell them something useful.  There are also GUI manpage browsers.  5) The build process doesn't include those files in the binary package.
<persia> jscinoz: Use the uversionmangle option.
<jscinoz> the version is a date, my package is using 20071220, but the upstream site uses 2007_12_20 resulting in it thinking local is newer than mirror due to lack of underscores, any way around this?
<jscinoz> thanks
<jscinoz> ugh regexps confuse me >_<
<jscinoz> yay for trial and error until it worked
<jscinoz> used opts=uversionmangle=s/_//;s/_//
<persia> jscinoz: Try s/_//g
<jscinoz> alright one sec
<jscinoz> ugh
<jscinoz> one other problem
<cyberix> Can I use both the mangled and unmangled forms after mangling?
<jscinoz> this game im packaging has three packages, client, server and data files
<jscinoz> but they use completely different versioning schemes, the data uses 4.* while the client and server use YYYY_MM_DD
<persia> cyberix: Could you expand your question a little?
<superm1> persia, there will be on the wiki after i write it :)
<persia> jscinoz: Best to track upstream: the version skew should mostly be hidden by package dependencies anyway.
<persia> superm1: Excellent.  I'll wait for that before pressing one of Y/I/N/O/D/Z then :)
<jscinoz> is it acceptable to have: urbanterror (20071220) urbanterror-server (20071220) and urbanterror-data (4.1)?
<superm1> persia, the way that I wrote it, you can press Y or N and it will rebuild your hardware.conf safely
<cyberix> https://launchpad.net/msk/0.1/0.1.1/+download/malbolge-0.1.1.tar.gz
<persia> jscinoz: Very much so.
<cyberix> https://launchpad.net/msk/0.1/([\d\.]*)/+download/malbolge-([\d\.]*).tar.gz
<cyberix> I suppose I still have to do something for the "0.1"
<persia> superm1: That's very confusing.  If it's going to rebuild it, I'm not convinced it's really a conffile.
<jscinoz> ok thanks :)
<superm1> persia, well due to some changes i made during gutsy, all of the parameters come from a hardware database
<persia> cyberix: Is there an LP page that lists all downloads for a project, or is it only versioned?
<superm1> so provided your remote is in that database, it can rebuild the changes
<jscinoz> next time i dput to revu though, isnt it going to upload as a new package due to the changed versioning scheme on my packages?
<superm1> if it isnt, then you can put custom items instead
<cyberix> I suppose this is it https://launchpad.net/msk/+download
<persia> superm1: Hmm.  That sounds better.  If it's possible to reliably detect user hardware, and do the right thing, that sounds better.  On the other hand, I have 2 IR devices.  One always connected, and the other only sporadically (and the second is the one for which I prefer the remote).  Will it do the right thing for me?
<cyberix> So, yes
<superm1> persia, well do the modules for your two ir devices modprobe on their own normally?
<superm1> due to udev
<persia> cyberix: In that case, consider using the screen-scraper mode, where the first part is the page to scrape, and the second is the URL checker.
<persia> superm1: Likely not in a useful way, but yes (one is usbserial and is also a LCD device)
<frafu> persia: I have another question about the changelog: after fixing the problems you indicated in the package, should I not update the changelog with information about it; and also increment the version of the package? Or are you not talking about debian/changelog?
<cyberix> That is the version 2 stuff that is deliberately left undocumented in the man pagE?
<superm1> persia, later on, i was planning another change that was going to blacklist all but the modules you selected in the hardware.conf.  it should properly handle at that point
<jscinoz> hmm
<persia> frafu: I probably was talking about debian/changelog.  No need to update the version, as it didn't get uploaded to the repositories.  debian/changelog should primarily contain information interesting to developers & end-users, not reviewers, so no need to add entries there unless they would be appropriate to that audience.
<superm1> persia, because there has been many people with that issue, where they have say a VFD and additionally a mceusb2
<persia> superm1: Then I'll go with 'Y' for now, and expect it will get sorted later (as I don't feel like hunting my remote just now).  I'm still not sure it's really a conffile.  Thanks.
<superm1> persia, if you have other ideas for how to handle it, feel free to throw them out this way :)
<persia> superm1: Should they all get blacklisted?  What about products like http://www.soundgraph.com/Eng_/Products/imon26.aspx?topMenu=2&subMenu=1&leftMenu=26 ?
<frafu> persia: thanks for your help; happy new year;  i have to quit now.
<superm1> persia, well if you set your remote to be the imon pad, and say your transmitter to be your usb device, those two won't be blacklisted
<persia> superm1: If you are detecting the hardware, and have a script that redetects (perhaps wrapped under dpkg-reconfigure), then I'd just have it be a configuration file in /etc, rather than a conffile.  Policy says you're not supposed to automangle conffiles.
<persia> superm1: Further, I think autodetection is a better solution.  An ideal system doesn't need conffiles, as the user doesn't need to override anything: it just works.
<superm1> persia, well lets put it this way.  the way it works right now, the conffile is only mangled under two conditions:
<superm1> persia, 1) if you change your remote/transmitter when debconf asks you for your remote/transmitter
<superm1> persia, 2) if the configuration is currently broken
<superm1> autodetection is a better solution, but only works for devices that explicitly identify themselves (such as usb devies)
<persia> superm1: Hmm...  policy says it's supposed to stay broken, but I guess that makes some sense.
<superm1> i2c, serial, parallel don't handle
<jscinoz> i really hate my isp at the moment.
<persia> Ah, so that's why my MX2 doesn't work easily: it's serial (via USB serial), so there's no way to tell there is a IR receiver there.
<superm1> persia, exactly
<superm1> so at some point you do have to be asked about it
<superm1> persia, do we have your MX2 in the lirc.hwdb already, or no?
<persia> superm1: lirc.hwdb?
<superm1> persia, the database that populates those debconf questions off the bat
<superm1> /usr/share/doc/lirc/lirc.hwdb
<superm1> additionally as of this package: /usr/share/doc/lirc/transmitter.hwdb
<persia> superm1: No.  None of the Matrix Orbital devices appear there.
<superm1> persia, is there a standard lircd.conf used for it?
<persia> superm1: I don't think so.  It's just an IR receiver.  You'd have to set the programming to match some remote you pointed at it (it also works for ircomm, etc. if you like).
<jscinoz> hmm so for the get-orig-source, using in conjunction with the watch file, the best way to do it would be... uscan --force-download --no-symlink || mkdir orig || unzip ../ioUrbanTerrorSource_2007_12_20  -d ./orig|| tar -cz urbanterror-20071220.orig.tar.gz ./orig?
<jscinoz> something like that?
<superm1> persia, okay but normally it uses lirc_serial for the driver?
<persia> superm1: Yes.
<jscinoz> im sure i could streamline that with stdin and stdout somehow
<superm1> persia, if you can file a bug, and explain these things, next go around i'll add it to the hwdb
<superm1> and mark it as user generated lircd.conf
<superm1> but that way it will be able to automatically setup the driver for lirc_serial
<persia> jscinoz: Looks reasonable.  There are some examples at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-4bb01b3c07548aaf98e85ac7eb7983e632f8eb38
<jscinoz> thanks
<persia> superm1: I usually use the i.Mon knob for lircd anyway.  I'll add setting up the MX2 with a remote to my todo list, but it won't be a terribly high priority (personally, I doubt many people primarily use the MX2 for lirc: ircomm is more common).
<superm1> persia, ah i see.  well additionally, does your imon have a pad?
<superm1> i'd be interested to see if that pad2keys patch that was applied a few revisions ago is working properly
<persia> superm1: http://www.soundgraph.com/Eng_/Products/imon23.aspx?topMenu=2&subMenu=1&leftMenu=23 is the one I have.  Does it have a pad?
<superm1> someone requested it a few months back, but it was put into hardy, so they weren't going to be able to test it until beta/rc time
<superm1> persia, yeah that big thing with the arrows is considered the pad
<superm1> it can be read as an analog or digital input per my understanding
<persia> OK.  it's fairly late here, but I'll dig out the remote in the next couple days, and give it a test.
<superm1> persia, great thanks
<jscinoz> gah
<jscinoz> how do i test out my get-orig-source without building the whole package.
<Vorian> persia: where should we submit package updates again?  :)
<persia> jscinoz: Just run debian/rules get-orig-source in the package directory, and make sure the resulting orig.tar.gz matches what you expect.
<persia> Vorian: Submit an interdiff to the sponsors for review.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<jscinoz> alrighty thanks
<roderik> I'm trying to package a program to put in a ppa that depends on libdvdread3, but my pbuilder keeps telling that libdvdread, libdvdread3, libdevread-dev and libdvdread3-dev are virtual packages. Does anyone have an idea what package to use?
<persia> roderik: apt-cache tells me the libdvdread source package builds libdvdread3 and libdvdread-dev.  Does your pbuilder know about universe?
<roderik> probably not :) i just did pbuilder create --distribution=gutsy
<jscinoz> persia is there a way to get uscan to output both the mangled and unmangled versions?
<persia> jscinoz: No idea.  Maybe someone else knows (a good reason to ask questions to the channel generally)
<jscinoz> alrighty
<jscinoz> is there a way to get uscan to output both the mangled and unmangled versions?
<jscinoz> :P
<jscinoz> what would be a regexp to insert an underscore after 4 characters, then two, then two again, eg changing 20071220 to 2007_12_20?
<cyberix> persia: I suppose I've fixed all your complaints now. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
<persia> jscinoz: A regex can't do that.  The sed fragment s/\(\d\d\d\d\)\(\d\d\)\(\d\d\)/\1_\2_\3/ ought do it, but it's rather ugly.  There's probably a better way.
<jscinoz> hmm
<jscinoz> ok thanks :P
<persia> cyberix: I firmly believe you get the best quality package with multiple reviewers.  Best to ask for someone else to look at it first (although I will if nobody else does in a while).
<jscinoz> argh
<cyberix> I'm looking after first advocate for my package malbolge. I've posted the package to REVU and fixed all problems that have been brought up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
<jscinoz> hey guys
<jscinoz> im trying to get my get-orig-source working in conjunction with my watch file
<jscinoz> heres a pastebin of the get-orig-source rule and the problems happening http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/50261/
<jscinoz> any ideas?
<LucidFox> jscinoz> don't determine version using uscan
<LucidFox> use dpkg-parsechangelog
<jscinoz> i need it to fetch the zip too though thats why i used uscan
<cyberix> Unless someone has time to look at my package right now, I think I'll go out and find some food.
<cyberix> Then I'll hopefully be back in time to fix one or two remaining bugs, and will get the package into queu before next year.
<cyberix> ;-)
<jscinoz> hmm
<persia> Happy New Year
<jscinoz> happy new year :P
<persia> jscinoz: Looking at that get-orig-source, I suspect you need to add a tar somewhere between unzipping and gzipping.  You might also look at the output of uscan --dehs to see if the upstream version is available there.  I'm also not convinced "$$(version |sed s/\(\d\d\d\d\)\(\d\d\)\(\d\d\)/\1_\2_\3/)" is the right syntax.
<cyberix> Happy New Year, to you too.
<cyberix> persia: and thanks
<txwikinger> persia: Already?
<txwikinger> Happy New Year then
<persia> txwikinger: Apparently :)
 * txwikinger stil hangs on to 2007
<jscinoz> i got some things to work right but i cant get it to add in the 3 undersccores >_<
<jscinoz> is tar -cz the same as tar then gzip?
<persia> jscinoz: Yes, but it may not be --best
<jscinoz> hmm
<persia>  /msg ubotu bug #162966
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162966 in ubuntu "libserial needs packaging" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162966
<jscinoz> ugh
<jscinoz> can tar even make an archive from stdin?
<jscinoz> ugh tar is so stupid.
<jscinoz> im off to bed i cant figure this out >_<
<jscinoz> night all
<slytherin> is it necessary to change 'Standards-Version' to 3.7.3 while fixing a FTBFS?
<geser> no
<slytherin> What is new in this standard version by the way?
<jpatrick> 3.7.3
<geser> slytherin: we try to keep the delta to Debian small
<slytherin> geser: sure. :-)
<geser> slytherin: see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/12/msg00001.html
<chazco> Hi... i'm creating a .deb for a propriety application... Is there an "accepted" way of setting up mime.types (it uses the file extensions .tmd and .pmd) I should use?
<slytherin> what is the way to non-interactively accept Sun's license in local pbuilder chroot?
<geser> slytherin: the buildds do it through preseeding the debconf question, so it should also work in pbuilder but I haven't looked yet how to do it
<slytherin> geser: I have logged in to pbuilder and now trying to install Sun JRe manually, but I get error that license could not be presented. It asks me to do 'dpkg-reconfigure debconf' but that too doesn't help
<geser> is perhaps the debconf frontend set through a environment variable?
<geser> slytherin: try unsetting DEBIAN_FRONTEND (which is set to noninteractive)
<slytherin> geser: Worked, thanks
<man-di> slytherin: last time I did that I did "pbuilder --save-after-login login" and did a "chroot dir" in another terminal to the pbuilder dir
<geser> Hi bddebian
<slytherin> man-di: I am doing the same
<slytherin> man-di: except that chroot part
<bddebian> Heya geser
<slytherin> One more FTBFS fixed. Will submit debdiff tomorrow. Happy New Year to all in advance. Good night.
<SnackPack> oi.
<jpatrick> SnackPack: hello, happy new year
<SnackPack> danke, you too
<SnackPack> so I'm reading up on how to become a motu
<jpatrick> bitte
<SnackPack> lotsa links to read
<chazco> Hi... i'm creating a .deb for a propriety application... Is there an "accepted" way of setting up mime.types/file associations (it uses the file extensions .tmd and .pmd) I should use? I'm aiming for as great a range of compatibility as possible.
<SnackPack> hmmm
<SnackPack> it's hard to find bugs that don't already have diffs uploaded
<AnAnt> Hello, I am making a package, the issue is that the orig is in SVN, how should I handle that case ?
<geser> AnAnt: svn export to get a tarball without the .svn dirs
<AnAnt> that's not what I meant
<AnAnt> geser: I mean, what URL should I mention in copyright
<SnackPack> is it recommended to just apply for mentorship?
<AnAnt> geser: and is there a field to add in control file ?
<AnAnt> geser: the reason I ask, is because once I done apt-get source <some package>, and it got pulled from BZR or SVN
<geser> AnAnt: the svn URL
<geser> AnAnt: the fields in debian/control specify in which VCS (if any) the debian packaging is done
<AnAnt> geser: so if the debian package itself is in SVN, I should mention that in debian/control ?
<AnAnt> geser: I mean source package
<geser> only if you (as the maintainer) use a SVN for the debian/* files
<AnAnt> geser: ok, what's the field name ?
<geser> Vcs-Svn for your svn repository and Vcs-Browser if it's also viewable in a browser
<AnAnt> geser: so, if the svn URL is http:// I should use both Vcs-Svn & Vcs-Browser ?
<geser> yes
<geser> do you really do the whole packaging in a svn repository already?
<SnackPack> I guess I'll wait for the next motu meeting to look at starting to become a motu
<AnAnt> geser: yes, actually the save svn repository in which the package resides
<AnAnt> geser: yes, actually the same svn repository in which the package resides
<txwikinger> How can I figure out why a package was removed and/or superseeded and if superseeded with which package?
<geser> txwikinger: check if there is a bug or in the removal log
<geser> SnackPack: have you read the MOTU pages in the wiki already?
<txwikinger> geser no bug ... and in the overview it only says superseeded
<SnackPack> geser: yeah I've been reading
<SnackPack> looks like most bugs have a diff already posted
<geser> txwikinger: which package?
<txwikinger> geser: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libooc-x11/
<geser> SnackPack: look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO for tasks
<SnackPack> geser: how si that different from https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+subscribedbugs ?
<geser> txwikinger: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt says "(From Debian) RoQA; no users; RC-buggy; unmaintained"
<txwikinger> well then I can just close the open bugs I guess
<geser> SnackPack: that shows the bugs which are already done by contributors (by e.g. providing a debdiff) and only need a review and upload from a MOTU
<geser> SnackPack: the workflow is: a contributor finds a problem or bug he can fix, prepares a debdiff, files a bug with the debdiff (if none exists), subscribe ubuntu-univers-sponsors for sponsoring the upload
<SnackPack> geser: ok, so I can choose one or more from this TODO list and follow the patching guidelines?
<SnackPack> k
<geser> yes
<SnackPack> woot
<SnackPack> time to get a hardy installation going.  :P
<geser> you can of course also fix other bugs which you find nasty enough to fix :)
<SnackPack> I was wondering about that...  I'm free to hit bugs in main/multiverse/universe in order to become motu?
<geser> yes, but for main subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors instead of ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<SnackPack> gotcha
<geser> you can also choose the help specific teams, like the kubuntu team, the desktop team, etc.
<SnackPack> I'm more of a server guy, but once I get into it, I'm sure I will
<SnackPack> thanks
<geser> there is also a server team
<geser> so if you like helping to improve the server edition of ubuntu, there you go
<AnAnt_> anyone knows how the login sound is set ?
<AnAnt_> is it a gconf key or some conf file ?
 * jonnymind is away: dinner
<Kmos> http://pastebin.com/d49a8037e - Error in perl package when doing dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<Kmos> there is a option in dpkg-buildpackage to bypass this?
<geser> Kmos: try installing libmodule-build-perl
<Kmos> geser: it works. thanks
<geser> Kmos: for some package you need some of the build-depends installed to do a dpkg-buildpackage -S
<Kmos> geser: yeah.. i think it just bypass it =) but i'm wrong.. hehe, learned one more thing
<Kmos> thanks
<Kmos> i'm trying to fix a FTBFS
<Kmos> it builds fine in pbuilder, but not at buildd machines
<Kmos> geser: can you look at this one - bug 164166
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164166 in ebug-http "FTBFS: tries to download from CPAN" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164166
<chazco> Hi... i'm creating a .deb for a propriety application... Is there an "accepted" way of setting up mime.types/file associations (it uses the file extensions .tmd and .pmd) I should use? I'm aiming for as great a range of compatibility as possible.
<ion_> Could i get a second person to advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected (a program that indicates whether given hardware exists in the system; useful for scripting) and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=apt-mark-sync (a program that synchronizes the âautomatically installedâ status of packages between different package managers)? Thanks.
<NickPresta> I installed xcdroast (sudo apt-get install xcdroast). It wanted to install `cdda2wav` and `xcdroast`. Okay, did that. I start up xcdroast and I get an error about missing `icedax` and some missing libraries. I had to install icedax to fix it. Shouldn't icedax be a dependency of xcdroast?
<NickPresta> This is on Kubuntu Gutsy as well.
<Kmos> NickPresta: maybe it should be
<Kmos> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xcdroast/+filebug
<Kmos> file a bug here about that
<Kmos> and mention you're using Kubuntu Gutsy
<Kmos> !info libtest-harness-perl hardy
<ubotu> libtest-harness-perl: Run Perl standard test scripts with statistics. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.03-1 (hardy), package size 156 kB, installed size 512 kB
<NickPresta> Kmos, okay, thanks. I was in the process of filing a bug but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious.
<Kmos> kmos@bash:~$ apt-cache show xcdroast |grep icedax
<Kmos> it doesn't have any icedax package
<NickPresta> Kmos, well, I just tested it by uninstalling icedax and xcdroast failed to start. Installing icedax fixed the problem.
 * NickPresta shrugs
<Kmos> NickPresta: so that's the problem =) report it.. and thanks for help
<Kmos> maybe you should report it also in debian
<Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xcdroast.html
<SnackPack> Kmos: report it in debian if the package doesn't -ubuntu?
<SnackPack> er, isn't
<Kmos> bug 179614
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179614 in xcdroast "xcdroast requires icedax but not installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179614
<Kmos> :)
<imbrandon> report it in debian either way, they will benifet from the fix
<imbrandon> SnackPack: ^
<NickPresta> Kmos, heh okay. Reported here (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xcdroast/+bug/179614). I shall report it to Debian too.
<SnackPack> gotcha
<SnackPack> question...  I'm looking at #179612
<Kmos> I think icedax should depends on cdda2wav
<Kmos> and not xcdroast
<SnackPack> since I use mythbuntu at home, #179612 is of interest to me...  but I have not seen the behavior he describes
<Kmos> SnackPack: try to uninstall cdda2wav and icedax and run xcdroast to see if it runs
<Kmos> without it
<SnackPack> Kmos: I'm not on that bug.  :P
<SnackPack> was just a general question
<Kmos> i'm talking about the "xcdroast requires icedax but not installed"
<Kmos> I need to go.. Good Year for everyone!
<NickPresta> Have a good night, Kmos
<SnackPack> yeah, I'm not on that
<Kmos> here is still 21:48 =)
<Kmos> thanks
<SnackPack> hehe
<Kmos> SnackPack: that's for NickPresta
<Kmos> NickPresta: try to uninstall cdda2wav and icedax and run xcdroast to see if it runs
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> sorry
<SnackPack> np
<SnackPack> trying to get a hardy system going right now
<Kmos> cya
<NickPresta> Is it possible to use reportbug to send a bug report to Debian? I am using reportbug but it wants to send a bug report to Ubuntu as well. I've already filed a bug with LP though.
<imbrandon> NickPresta: not from ubuntu, you have to be on a debian system to use report bug
<imbrandon> to report it to debian bts
<imbrandon> although you can use "bts" to submit a bug iirc from ubuntu , or just plain email
<NickPresta> imbrandon, ah okay. The people at #Debian told me to use reportbug despite being on Kubuntu
<imbrandon> NickPresta: they were mistaken
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> nixternal: erable: Is qdevelop really in the repos?  I can't find it (although https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qdevelop/ oddly works)
<nixternal> I have uploaded it before
<nixternal> I think
<persia> nixternal: I didn't see it in the queues either (checked NEW, ACCEPTED, REJECTED, and DONE).  Hmmm...
<persia> nixternal: Not in hardy-changes either, nor p.qa.d.o, so it wouldn't be a hidden sync.  Odd that it has an LP page though: did it maybe go to a PPA or something?
<nixternal> Package qdevelop is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<nixternal> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<nixternal> is only available from another source
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> it shows up in apt-cache as well
<persia> nixternal: Not in my apt-cache.  Do you have extra sources?
 * nixternal looks
<nixternal> no I don't
<persia> nixternal: Curiouser and curiouser...
 * Fujitsu points at apt-cache policy.
<nixternal> no doubt
<Fujitsu> nixternal: Do you have it installed?
<nixternal> doesn't look like it
<Gunirus> Happy New Year
<nixternal> Happy Gnu Year to you as well :)
 * persia cheers pidgin
<Gunirus> thx :p
 * persia grumbles that 2048 characters is insufficient for some REVU results
<mekius> hey, gnome-hearts package seems to be missing the cards in gutsy
<persia> mekius: Is there a bug?
<mekius> well of course :), it crashes without the cards
<persia> mekius: I mean, has a bug been filed?  The cause is likely due to differences between Ubuntu and Debian gnome-games, but without a filed bug, it's not likely to be fixed soon (especially as gnome-hearts works for me, and at least two other people).
<mekius> I just installed it and not working, made sure gnome-cards-data was installed, neither package has the necessary files
<persia> mekius: Right.  You probably want to file a bug.  Also #ubuntu-bugs is a better forum to discuss bugs.
<mekius> i can look for a bug
<mekius> k
<mekius> well I'll deal with this later, don't have time right now
 * XSource_ Accept/Balls To The Wall - global german radio network - Various (xÂ«amarok)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-01-01
 * persia forgets the command to do the right thing, and hopes someone else is watching.
<XSource_> persia: you mean, about me?
<persia> XSource_: Yes.
<XSource_> well I was just trying this new plug-in, didn't mean that
<persia> XSource_: Ah.  If you're just testing, no worries then (but be careful: most multichannel traffic is interpreted poorly)
<XSource_> and the bad thing it's in every channel
<jscinoz> hey guys
<ion_> Hi
<jscinoz> do i need to include orig.tar.gz for a package that has no source (game data files, they
<jscinoz> 're just texturtesa nd sounds etc)
<txwikinger> Happy New Year from here now too ;)
<persia> jscinoz: That's source.  You need a source to generate a binary (even if it's just copying files).
<jscinoz> happy new year :P (was 11hours ago for me) :P
<jscinoz> ah
<jscinoz> also persia
<jscinoz> or anyone else
<jscinoz> can tar get input from stdin
<jscinoz> im trying to have a pipe that extracts a zip, tars what comes out, then gzips it
<jscinoz> but i dont think tar can take stdin as input
<SnackPack> iirc..
<persia> jscinoz: I think tar only accepts tarfiles to stdin (zcat foo.tgz | tar xf -), but doesn't accept filestreams (I'm not even sure what a filestream would be: how does one differentiate EOF from EOS?)
<SnackPack> also, zipfile header info is at the EOF
<SnackPack> so it's not real suitable for piping
<jscinoz> so would it be better to have unzip extract to /tmp/something and just have it read from there since /tmp gets cleaned automatically
<SnackPack> you should clean up your mess anyways.  :)
<SnackPack> or attempt to
<persia> jscinoz: Be sure to create a safe temporary directory, and clean up after yourself.  /tmp only gets cleaned on reboot, which may not be often for some users.
<jscinoz> alright
<SnackPack> mktemp
<jscinoz> snackpack, if i use mktemp, how do i inform the next command of the randomly generated directory name?
<SnackPack> if I recall...
<SnackPack> MYTMPDIR=$(mktemp)
<SnackPack> use man mktemp for an example
<jscinoz> ah yeah got it
 * persia advocates := unless it's really important to perform the creation at the moment of invocation
<SnackPack> true
<jscinoz> if variables set out are only needed by one build rule is it better practise to put them in that rule rather than at the beginning of the debian/rules
<persia> jscinoz: Depends on what the variables do.  In this case, likely.  note that creating rule-scoped variables in make is done at the end of the rule definition line, rather than on a separate line.
<jscinoz> hmm
<jscinoz> whats the differenceb etween using, "=" or ":="
<persia> jscinoz: parse time vs. run time.  http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html#Flavors has specifics
<jscinoz> ah
 * txwikinger wonders what the problem with bonobo is
<Amaranth> other than its evil?
<persia> Amaranth: monkeys can't be evil: no morality applies
<jscinoz> persia i got the sed thing to work to add the underscores at the right place now
<jscinoz> 's_\([0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]\)\([0-9][0-9]\)\([0-9][0-9]\)_\1\_\2\_\3_'
<persia> jscinoz: I'm glad to hear your problem has been addressed, but I'm sure there is a more aesthetically pleasing way to accomplish it.  Was uscan --dehs completely unhelpful?
<jscinoz> yes unfortunately
<jscinoz> as i need both the mangled and unmangle version numbers and i could find no way to get it to output both without breaking other things.
<txwikinger> it messes up something when compiling evolution
<persia> jscinoz: You could make it slightly less bad by using something other than '_' as your sed delimiter.  '/' is popular, or '#'
<jscinoz> hmm ok i'll try that
<persia> jscinoz: How about s/\(\d{4}\)\(\d{2}\)\(\d{2}/\1_\2_\3/ ?
<jscinoz> ill give it a try one sec.
<persia> Err...  nevermind.  I'm confusing sed & perl again :(
<ion_> Iâd use sed -r and drop most of the backslashes.
<jscinoz> dont do it that way persia?
<jscinoz> *confused*
<persia> ion_: Good suggestion :)
<jscinoz> ill do that now :)
<jscinoz> which of the \ should i remove from 's_\([0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]\)\([0-9][0-9]\)\([0-9][0-9]\)_\1\_\2\_\3_'
<ion_> % echo foo01234567bar | sed -r 's/([0-9]{4})([0-9]{2})([0-9]{2})/\1_\2_\3/'
<ion_> foo0123_45_67bar
<jscinoz> cheers
 * SnackPack upgrades to hardy
<jscinoz> gah
<jscinoz> it seems that later in my script it just reads these variables as null
<jscinoz> rather than what they truly are.
<persia> jscinoz: debian/rules is not a script, which might be part of that.
<jscinoz> ugh
<jscinoz> wait got it i think
<persia> jscinoz: echo x$(VARIABLE)x can be surprisingly informative
<jscinoz> whats the x on eachside for?
<persia> jscinoz: Helps detect the difference between a space and a null
<jscinoz> ah
<jscinoz> ah
<jscinoz> oops
<jscinoz> woo got it
<victor_> $() is used for command substitution, you probably mean ${VARIABLA}
<persia> victor_: In a makefile?
 * persia reiterates that debian/rules is not a shell script
<victor_> oh :)
<crimsun> (well, not normally.)
<persia> crimsun: it really, really, really oughtn't be.  I thought the "debian/rules is not a makefile" meme even reached mass-bug-file status once, didn't it?
<imbrandon> guess it depends on the #! thats at the top :)
<persia> Err..  "debian/rules is not a shell script" (carefully wiping egg)
<crimsun> I've seen debian/rules be a compiled executable.
<ion_> Wow :-)
<crimsun> and yes, it left a rather nasty aftertaste.
<persia> crimsun: Ah.  I suppose it works, but...
<imbrandon> heh
<Amaranth> crimsun: bash
<Amaranth> debian/rules could be a python script too
<Amaranth> or ruby, etc
<persia> I suppose it could be anything as long as it takes the right arguments, but I still believe it ought to be a makefile.
<Amaranth> It can't be for some things
<imbrandon> except where make is broke
<Amaranth> the package for make can't have a makefile
<persia> Amaranth: Why not?  Lots of packages build-depend on themselves.
<Amaranth> I'd hate to bootstrap that
<imbrandon> bootstrap + equivs
<imbrandon> heh
<Amaranth> vala svn depends on itself but the releases come with preconverted code
<Amaranth> it's really fun when latest svn can't be compiled with the latest release
<persia> Amaranth: debian/rules for make is a makefile :P
<Amaranth> you have to jump to some revision in the middle, etc
<imbrandon> mmm almost newyears
<imbrandon> ( here )
<Amaranth> 5 hours
<persia> Bah.  People in obsolete places.  so behind the times.
<jscinoz> ugh
<crimsun> we can't all be as chronologically progressive as you, persia :p
<persia> crimsun: That's just last year's thinking :)
<txwikinger> Ha.. a new scale pf discrimination... chronologically challenged
<jscinoz> ugh tar includes the temp directory in the orig.tar.gz directory structure
<jscinoz> ie.. in the tarball we have tmp.xxxxx/sourcefolder1 sourcefolder 2
<jscinoz> any idea how to make it stop doing this.
<persia> jscinoz: call it with (cd $$foo; tar czf $$bar .)
<jscinoz> ah
<jscinoz> thanks :)
<jscinoz> yay got my get-orig-source all good :D
<jscinoz> now..
<jscinoz> ugh
<jscinoz> the .svn directories are still included in the orig.tar.gz
<jscinoz> how can i strip these out somewhere between extracting the zip and building the tarball?
<persia> jscinoz: You're pulling from svn directly, or upstream is providing them in the zip file?
<jscinoz> upstream providing in zip
<persia> jscinoz: man tar.  Read about --exclude
 * crimsun wonders about libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio vice libsdl1.2debian-alsa by default.
<jscinoz> alright here goes, lets hope get-orig-source is finally working
<persia> crimsun: surely pulse.  The games may have (slightly) higher latency, but otherwise there are strange blocking effects (why doesn't my music play when I'm playing this?)
<imbrandon> crimsun: got time to help me debug a sound issue on my imac, if not its all good ( seems alsa think my front built in speakers are headphones , ontop of that it mutes them on startup no matter what )
<jscinoz> hmm alls looking good, for my man pages should i gzip them or have dh_compress handle the compression?
<persia> jscinoz: dh_compress is more likely to track current policy
<imbrandon> dh_installman compresses them too doesnt it ?
 * imbrandon isnt sure
<persia> imbrandon: it doesn't claim to do so in the manpage
<imbrandon> ahh i'm likely mistaken then
<imbrandon> been quite a while since i looked
<crimsun> imbrandon: sure, but a sec, please
<imbrandon> crimsun: sure no problems, and no hurries at all, i'm just watching irc as my kids play twister
<crimsun> persia: I was hoping that there wouldn't be any seed issues, and there appear to be none (e.g., *ubuntu-desktop depending on libsdl1.2debian-foo)
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun> looks like we simply need to ask for libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio's promotion
<persia> crimsun: Excellent then.  I welcome our new pseudopodic overlords with glee.
<jscinoz> i've read over the man page of dh_compress, i'm assuming i need to create a copy of the filesystem hirachy in ./debian and place the man page and other documentation in their appropriate locations for it to work?
<persia> Is Henrik Stokseth available?  I've reviewed one of five REVU candidates, and wonder if the others need review, or may have some of the same issues as the first reviewed (cdemu-client)
<persia> jscinoz: debian/rules install should take care of most of that for you
<ion_> Could i get a second person to advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected (a program that indicates whether given hardware exists in the system; useful for scripting) and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=apt-mark-sync (a program that synchronizes the âautomatically installedâ status of packages between different package managers)? Thanks.
 * persia notes there are four other packages also awaiting a second advocate, if anyone is just watching twister and otherwise bored
<jscinoz> *confused*
<persia> jscinoz: About?
<jscinoz> so i have a man page, the copyright file, the debian changelog and the upstream changelog
<jscinoz> i need the copyright to go uncompressed in /usr/share/doc/urbanterror, the two changelogs to go in the same directory compressed as changelog.gz and changelog.Debian.gz, and the currently uncompressed man page to go in /usr/share/man/man6/urbanterror.6.gz
<jscinoz> how would i get dh_compress to do that.
<imbrandon> persia: heh ok i'll look at revu
<ion_> Personally i quite like CDBS. It Does The Right Thingâ¢ with only a few lines in debian/rules.
<jscinoz> i've already mostly completed this package i dont want to start over with cdbs.
<persia> jscinoz: For the manpage, use dh_installman.  For the upstream changelog, use dh_installchangelogs  For debian/copyright and debian/changelog, expect something else to handle it (I forget which).  Call dh_compress in your binary-arch target to compress everything properly.
<jscinoz> thanks
<ion_> The non-CDBS debian/rules files made by dh_make handle that just fine, of course.
<crimsun> imbrandon: for a stable, supported release, or hardy?
<jscinoz> thanks :)
<persia> crimsun: Is the default output for pulse really all connected output devices simultaneously?
<crimsun> persia: for which version?
<crimsun> it wasn't for 0.9.5 or 0.9.6
<persia> crimsun: The version to be released in April with hardy (just saw a comment in the CleanupAudioJumble spec to this effect, and wanted to confirm or deny)
<persia> Specifically https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/CleanupAudioJumble?action=diff&rev2=56&rev1=55
<crimsun> ah, for 0.9.8 it should be by default, yes.
<persia> Ah.  Hmm.  OK.  Thanks for the confirmation.
<crimsun> there's some buffoonery still for hotplugged usb devices, so I need to track that
 * crimsun migrates wifi hotspots
<imbrandon> crimsun: gutsy on ppc , actualy its on etch right now ( to see if it was a ubuntu specific thing )
<imbrandon> so i guess i'll put gutsy back on it later or maybe hardy
<imbrandon> but i'm guessing its a core alsa thing as it happens with all linux i have put on it ( only debian based ones )
<jscinoz> argh
<jscinoz> i'm building both  the server and client packages for a game, the source gotten from the upstream vendor is a zip file containing a client and server folder, in my orig.tar.gz should i have both client and server in one tarball or separate for each package?
<persia> jscinoz: It is best practice to have one orig.tar.gz for each upstream distributed file.  If upstream combines the client and server in a single package, you may wish to have one source package (with multiple binary packages).
<jscinoz> ok
<crimsun> imbrandon: ok, I'll need to know whether you're using the version(s) of alsa built-in to linux-image* or whether you've used module-assistant with alsa-source
<crimsun> imbrandon: also, for each of those, please grab http://trilug.org/~crimsun/alsa-info.sh, and let me know the URLs.
 * persia declares victory over REVU, and finds alternate entertainment
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> persia: sponsorship queue?
<persia> Hobbsee: Not soon.  I need to take a break from looking at possible mistakes, and don't want to be unduly firm (UUS has a lower threshold for acceptance than REVU).
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> true
<persia> txwikinger: Good catch on the *really* old standards versions :)
<jscinoz> uscan is ignoring --force-download, it doesnt download the upstream source
<persia> jscinoz: Please pastebin your watch file.
<jscinoz> can i just paste here as its only two lines?
<jscinoz> version=3
<jscinoz> opts=uversionmangle=s/_//g ftp://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/urbanterror/iourbanterror/source/complete/ioUrbanTerrorSource_(.*)\.zip
<persia> jscinoz: I get "uscan warning: In debian/watch no matching files for watch line" with that watch file.
<jscinoz> i dont get any errors, it just refuses to download it
<jscinoz> it states current version is latest
<jscinoz> and even with --force-download doesnt download
<persia> jscinoz: What is the output of bare `uscan` in the package directory?
<jscinoz> nothing
<persia> And your watchfile matches http://paste.ubuntu.com/3170/ ?
<jscinoz> yes
<jscinoz> hmm
<jscinoz> i didnt change anything but it worked this time.
<jscinoz> maybe the server had a brainfart :P
<persia> Odd.  I don't know why I'd get different output than you, and I don't know why it works for you when it doesn't for me.
<jscinoz> strange isnt it
<nixternal> persia: I just installed that qdevelop and I have to say it is a mess
<nixternal> it doesn't work
<persia> nixternal: Ah.  Please leave a note :)
<nixternal> doing so now
<persia> nixternal: I don't suppose you'd be up for rejecting the 6 candidates remaining as well (assuming you can find a reason)?
<nixternal> do you have a list of them?
<persia> nixternal: The ones with the glass on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> holy shit, a 12mb dat file
<persia> which package?
<crimsun> pfft.  Try the ia32-libs source.  ;)
<crimsun>  bf04278fc7870bae37175e314cde66a0 454876971 ia32-libs_2.2ubuntu2.tar.gz
<crimsun> munch on that, dude!
 * persia thinks urbanterror-data wins
<crimsun> it's larger than 454 MB?!
<persia> crimsun: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=urbanterror-data
<crimsun> eww.
<crimsun> thank goodness for rsync
<nixternal> persia: the mame hacks
<nixternal> that shouldn't even be packaged, let alone be on revu
<nixternal> if it doesn't meet ppa rules, then I do not advocate..I hope that is what you were looking for on this
<nixternal> if it isn't free, then you get no advocation from me :p
<persia> nixternal: Doesn't meet PPA rules?
<nixternal> ya, has to be free in a sense
<persia> nixternal: cheat.dat is a text file.
<nixternal> ya, 12mb text file that you can't edit, and doesn't belong in universe
<nixternal> don't even feel it belongs in multiverse
<crimsun> err, what's the license on it?
<persia> nixternal: That works for me.  Last time I tried to shoot something down because it wasn't free (pq), I was overridden, so I'm not making that call any more.
<persia> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu.com/3172/ is the relevant section of cheat.dat
<crimsun> eww.
<crimsun> yeah, kill it.
<pwnguin> progress quest?
<crimsun> at best, one could use a wrapper to grab it (e.g., flashplugin-nonfree, and formerly, djbdns-installer)
<persia> The arguable bit is that it says "all I ask..." and "Please...", which may not actually mean we can't, but that doing so isn't nice.
 * Fujitsu wonders if such badly written licenses are enforcable.
<persia> pwnguin: Yes.
<pwnguin> you dont need nonfree to shoot that down
 * persia thinks it's like postcardware
<Fujitsu> Both English- and `Please'-wise.
<pwnguin> useless is enough in my book
<persia> pwnguin: Really?  Would you like to file a removal request?
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: But wrapperss involving Wine are *fun*!
<Fujitsu> I think most present would love to see it killed.
<pwnguin> persia: i dont count for much
<persia> pwnguin: Everyone counts :)
<pwnguin> if it got into the archive, i dont see how a "this is pointless" is going to take it out
<Fujitsu> persia: Is cheat.dat redistributable if not distributed with MAME or a MAME frontend?
<persia> Fujitsu: Actually, no.  Good point.
<Fujitsu> What is sdlmame-cheat? Is it a MAME frontend?
<persia> Fujitsu: No, just the cheat file.
<Fujitsu> Or does it not mean `MAME frontend', but `cheat.dat frontend'?
<Fujitsu> The duplication of `any' in that phrase makes it a bit confusing.
<persia> Still, there's a good argument that distribution without any MAME compile or any frontend may be in violation of the license.
<Fujitsu> So there's no frontend at all with it?
 * Fujitsu looks.
<persia> Fujitsu: Nope.  The entire package is just a wrapper for the cheat DB.  It's intended to go with http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sdlmame, which is packaged separately.
<Fujitsu> ... so it is.
<Fujitsu> That's unredistributable.
 * Fujitsu would advise a nuking.
<persia> Excellent.  One down: 5 to go.  Commenting and nuking.
 * Fujitsu likes dealing with licensing if it keeps packages like that out.
<Fujitsu> Erm, licencing, I guess.
<nixternal> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mscore  <- why are there 2 debian/ directories? one in the root directory and one in the mscore directory..is that fine?
<Fujitsu> persia: I like your second mscore review.
<nixternal> heh, he is like "oh that was brief, here is the full review"
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<nixternal> his full review is about the size of that damn mame.dat file :p
<persia> nixternal: Nah.  Some of my reviews actually flood the buffer, and require two comments :P
<persia> The first review was interrupted as there was discussion in-channel regarding the package, and all parties were convinced it was a duplicate (it's not).
<Fujitsu> I recall that discussion, and the intense confusion that abounded for some time.
<persia> Fujitsu: Erm.  nuking is broken :(
<Fujitsu> Somebody probably wants to remove the two sdlmame-cheat orig.tar.gzs at some point.
<Fujitsu> persia: One cannot nuke from the web interface, I don't think.
<Fujitsu> And nuking destroys the comments and all, I believe.
<persia> There are Nuke buttons on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/index.py?archived=true for me.
<Fujitsu> Ah, I'm not logged in.
<persia> Also, all comments are archived at http://lists.tauware.de/listinfo/motu-reviewers, so http://lists.tauware.de/pipermail/motu-reviewers/2008-January/019164.html remains available for discussion in the future.
<crimsun> mozilla-devscripts looks ok.  I'd only update the FSF address in debian/rules and src/*
<Fujitsu> That's true.
<persia> crimsun: Please upload or reject asking for the adjustment :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Does /index.py?nuke=<upid> work?
<persia> Fujitsu: No.  I tried http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/index.py?nuke=624
<crimsun> "No REVU account for crimsun@fungus.sh.nu exists yet."
<crimsun> erm, ok.
 * persia creates an account for crimsun...
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Try your primary LP address.
<persia> crimsun: Actually, try the email address you usually use when uploading first
<crimsun> doesn't work.
<crimsun> (besides, my primary LP address is @fungus, and that's the one associated with the "old" revu account)
<persia> Right.  New account coming up...
<crimsun> thanks!
<persia> Erm.  register_user.py doesn't seem to have execute permission :(
<crimsun> (I promise I really did have a rationale for saying it here in the channel instead of logging in and commenting ;-)
<Fujitsu> persia: Just do it manually.
 * persia investigates
<Fujitsu> persia: Or in fact just run `python register_user.py'
<Fujitsu> Don't know why I didn't think of that immediately
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  Thanks.
<persia> crimsun: Try again
<crimsun> there's nothing for me to enter
<persia> crimsun: You should be able to "Recover" your password, if you control GPG key c88abda3
<crimsun> I attempted that.
<crimsun> the resulting page provides no data to paste.
<crimsun> (this bug has existed since the recovery option existed ;)
<persia> Strange.  Recovery usually works for me.
 * persia hopes someone with deeper understanding of REVU can explain what I did wrong
 * Hobbsee suspects it's just borked.
<Fujitsu> ./me looks.
<nixternal> persia: do you have any clarification on that second debian/ directory in the mscore package? otherwise it is a good package, builds, installs/uninstalls/purges just fine
<nixternal> have no clue wth the app does though
<persia> nixternal: Second debian directory?  It's designed to help composers: they write songs with it.
<nixternal> under the mscore/ directory there is another debian/ directory
<persia> Ah.  Somehow I missed that.  Hrm.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Your existing account was crimsun@ubuntu.com.
 * Fujitsu tries to work out why recovery isn't working.
<nixternal> holy cow, you mean I found something that you didn't persia? ;)
<persia> nixternal: Fairly easy, really.
<nixternal> persia: I can find the easy stuff, you, you find stuff I have never even heard of :)
<persia> nixternal: That's because I make half of it up :P
<nixternal> hahahahhahaha
<nixternal> so I am not the only one then
<persia> nixternal: The extra debian directory is part of the upstream tarball.  I suppose it could be pulled in the repack, but I don't know if it matters much.
<nixternal> ya, that is what I figured
<nixternal> just a dirty tarball
 * persia tends to review diff.gz, with only passing reference to orig.tar.gz regarding licensing and application functionality
<crimsun> you can be pedantic with Toby; he can handle it.  ;)
<nixternal> I tend to grab the dsc, build it, run dh_install --list-missing on it, and find the easy stuff
<persia> nixternal: That's another you can kill then :)  Only 3 to go.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> persia: you want me to upload mozilla-devscripts?
<Fujitsu> persia, crimsun: I think I probably know why the recovery wasn't working, though I don't have enough permissions on sparky to check - 0xC88ABDA3 won't be on the keyring until the next sync.
<persia> Fujitsu: Are you resyncing now?
<Fujitsu> persia: I can't.
<persia> nixternal: I don't have an opinion either way.  crimsun mentioned a couple issues, so I thought he was handling it.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I will then.
<nixternal> persia: ok, crimsun mozilla-devscripts is all yours
<Fujitsu> You could always just PM crimsun his password for now.
<persia> Except I've purged it from my logs and don't remember it
<nixternal> gonna grab a snack before new years hits, then I am going to see if the coppers are hiding so I can pull the snowmobile out for some quick laps
<nixternal> brb
 * Fujitsu does so.
 * persia is amused at the separation of roles between system administrators and applications administrators, and notes that some "highly secure" installations don't do as well.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: thanks.
<persia> crimsun: Your name also just passed in the sync, so you should be able to recover if you lose it.
 * Fujitsu notes that sparky is probably a bit too open at the moment, if an unprivileged person like he can grab passwords from the DB.
<persia> Ah.  I thought you had permissions.  In that case, there is an issue.
<Fujitsu> My account on sparky is much the same as any other member of ubuntu-dev.
<persia> Fujitsu: I see that.  Conflicts with MOTD, but that's a different issue.
<Fujitsu> Indeed.
<persia> There are only three candidates left on REVU.  Someone should find a problem with them, or upload them.  Let's get it clear for the new year :)
 * Fujitsu has a look.
<Fujitsu> Aha, I might be able to test inkblot.
<crimsun> (looking at apt-mark-sync)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: you should be able to sync the keyring, any ubuntu-dev can
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ah, is there a sudoers entry for it?
<persia> imbrandon: don't you need to have the DB admin key?
 * imbrandon notes he is not really here, just popin in a sec
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yes
<imbrandon> persia: nope
 * persia retracts the statement about separation of concerns, and blames poor documentation for the appearance of security
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> poor docs but its all good, ones sec
<imbrandon> any member of ubuntu-dev on sparky should be able to run the following ( but its not documented anywhere , yet )
<imbrandon> alias keysync='sudo -u revu1 -H /srv/revu-production/bin/revu-key update'
<imbrandon> ^^ my .bashrc entry
<imbrandon> persia / Fujitsu ^^
 * Fujitsu just added that.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
 * persia has "revukey" for the alias
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> 21 minutes localtime, almost time for bed, i'm barely makin newyears localtime
<imbrandon> heh
 * imbrandon is sooooo tired atm
<persia> imbrandon: Have you been awake all day?
<Fujitsu> Yay, inkblot works.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: you seen my Windows XP aka "royale" theme for KDE right ? seen my latest GNOME atrocity ?
<imbrandon> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2308/2152618255_ed3e9ba526_o.png
<imbrandon> persia: yea
<Fujitsu> Ew. SwiftFox.
<imbrandon> no , just the icon
<imbrandon> its epiphany actualy
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
<persia> imbrandon: I don't suppose you'd like to test http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=awn-extras-applets.  There's an issue with orig.tar.gz now, but the packaging is nice, and it could use some ubuntu-dev testing.
<imbrandon> and evolution and gnome term and pigdin , and so on
<Fujitsu> Wait, aren't you a KDEer? Why are you using the GNOMEest (but best) browser?
<imbrandon> persia: sure, i run awn as you can see too :)
<persia> imbrandon: Yep: your screenshot gave it away
<Fujitsu> persia: I think inkblot looks good.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea i am using gnome untill hardy release , was a self promis thing to "see the other side"
<persia> Fujitsu: Don't tell me.  Tell REVU, ubuntu-motu@, and LucidFox :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Was just wondering if you had any objections to its upload.
<persia> Fujitsu: No.  I'd like to see an updated FSF address, but that could also be a bugfix.
<persia> (or you could update it when uploading)
<LucidFox> Or I could fix it right now and you would re-approve it.
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: I was wondering if you were around.
<LucidFox> Yes, I am :)
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: Do so, please :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: another traitor, then
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: despite the icons the apps are ( in order R to L ) :
<imbrandon> epiphany , evolution, terminal , pidgin, frostwire, audacity, banshee, vmware console, photoshop ( wine ), and a trashcan
 * persia suspects y'all are just gathering intel for a killer next release
<imbrandon> err L to R
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> persia: Heh.
<imbrandon> persia: heh
<Fujitsu> nixternal lost to Vista, and (Hobbsee, imbrandon) to GNOME. Tut tut.
<imbrandon> yea i totaly plan to go back to KDE when hardy releases, 6 months of gnome is enough for me
<imbrandon> but it has been a nice insight
<persia> Now taking bids on the last candidate on REVU.  Who wants it?
<imbrandon> and i'll probably keep gnome in a VM , but i'm stickin with my KDE :)
<imbrandon> i'm touching the awn one if thats what you mean persia
<nixternal> me lost to Vista? are you insane?
<wolfger> Happy New Year
<persia> imbrandon: That one already got rejected, but testing will help it get in next time.
<nixternal> right now I am using PCBSD
<imbrandon> persia: k
<LucidFox> Wait... 51 Franklin St. is the old address?
<imbrandon> does gnome even compile on BSD ? /me ducks
<LucidFox> Then what is the new one?
<nixternal> imbrandon: bah gnome, but bah kde4 on bsd at times
 * persia rebuilds to encourage lintian to divulge the secrets
<imbrandon> someday i need to get used to gimp so i can replace my Photoshop
<imbrandon> heh
<crimsun> LucidFox: 59 is the old one.
<crimsun> (as are a bunch of others)
<nixternal> Going into the new year, top KDE distro is: Fedora 8 in Linux and PCBSD in Unix, top Gnome Distro: Foresight (just check out Gnome's decision to choose Foresight for their developers), and the winner of best distribution overall goes to.....Kubuntu of course :p
<persia> ls
 * imbrandon see many gnome developers using ubunut too
<nixternal> imbrandon: you going to SCALE?
<imbrandon> and kde devs split between SuSE and Kubuntu and Debian, very few in Fedora ( but i must admit they put it all togather nice )
<imbrandon> nixternal: i plan to
<persia> LucidFox: 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA is the old address that causes the complaint.
<LucidFox> Ah.
<imbrandon> nixternal: i submitted a talk for it this year
<nixternal> groovy, I should hopefully be there as well
<nixternal> working a booth though
<LucidFox> reuploaded, should be on the way
<imbrandon> err wait no it was UbuntuLive i have the talk at, not SCALE, but i do plan on going to SCALE
<crimsun> I'll be sure to heckle both of you.
<imbrandon> crimsun: hehe :)
<nixternal> crimsun: I will be wearing 2 shirts, one bright green, and one black with a big K logo on the front :p
<imbrandon> nixternal: you see i made jorge's 2008 list ? dunno how i managed that one :)
<crimsun> I'll be wearing the "Rich <3 Vista" tee.
<nixternal> haha
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i have pics of my wife in my kubuntu shirt i've been meaning to post online, but some i need to "filter" so they dont make it to flickr
<nixternal> in february, I could be wearing another blue shirt too if all goes well
<nixternal> I still don't have a *buntu shirt
<imbrandon> i have one ubuntu and one kubuntu one
<crimsun> (I don't have either)
<imbrandon> my ubuntu one is the old old brown one though
<nixternal> sounds like a pair of underwear to me
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> somewhere online Rid*dell's S.O. has some pic's as "Kubuntu Girl"
<imbrandon> i dont rember where they are
<LucidFox> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=inkblot <-- appeared
<persia> LucidFox: Yes, but REVU is still trying to parse it :)
<nixternal> imbrandon: happy new year
<imbrandon> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<imbrandon> :)
<lifeless> nixternal: what decision? link?
<jscinoz> ugh
<nixternal> lifeless: what decision are you talking about?
<Fujitsu> REVU doesn't seem to like debdiffing the last two inkblot uploads.
<lifeless> "16:52 < nixternal> Going into the new year, top KDE distro is: Fedora 8 in Linux and PCBSD in Unix, top Gnome Distro: Foresight (just check out Gnome's decision to choose Foresight for their developers), and the
<lifeless>                    winner of best distribution overall goes to.....Kubuntu of course :p
<lifeless> "
<jscinoz> im trying to run debuild -S -sa on my package but it complains about many binary files being changed, even fresh from an extract from the orig.tar.gz, any idea?
<nixternal> lifeless: one sec, I will grab you either 1 link, or a million links, your choice :)
<persia> LucidFox: I can't see any differences in the new upload...
<nixternal> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeDeveloperKit
<nixternal> lifeless: ^^ there is the gnome dev kit website
<jscinoz> nevermidn fixed it :)
<LucidFox> Oops. Uploaded the wrong one.
<Fujitsu> Ah, so REVU isn't broken.
<persia> nixternal: You want hardware-connected, don't you?
<LucidFox> no, not REVU
<LucidFox> it's my fault... reuploading again
<emgent> happy new yar people!
<emgent> s/yat/tux/
<lifeless> nixternal: thanks
<emgent> s/yar/tux/
<LucidFox> persia> done
<persia> LucidFox: readvocated
 * Fujitsu signs.
<Fujitsu> Isn't ChangeLog installed as a changelog by default with CDBS, thus making DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL = ChangeLog redundant?
<persia> Fujitsu: Unfortunately not.  "ChangeLog" isn't one of the strings dh_changelogs pulls by default.
<persia> Err..  dh_installchangelogs
<Fujitsu> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/build-common-hackers/2007-November/004037.html says otherwise.
 * Fujitsu looks for other references.
<persia> Fujitsu: Maybe.  In several of the packages I reviewed today, linda complained about missing changelogs, and that fixed it (when there was an upstream "ChangeLog")
<Fujitsu> Hm...
<persia> Reading the dh_installchangelogs manpage, it appears it doesn't install anything without arguments, and DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL seems to be set to "" if not otherwise defined in /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<persia> s/anything/anything from upstream/
<Fujitsu> Right, I think we have an old debhelper.mk.
<Fujitsu> Ours certainly has it empty, but that line in a patch I see from November last year is populated with various filenames, including ChangeLog.
<persia> Fujitsu: Why?  That patch was reported against 0.4.50, which is the version currently in sid, and the version from which we derive.  We could maybe apply the patch...
<Fujitsu> Look at the first hunk.
<Fujitsu> It's different.
<persia> Indeed it is.  Interesting.
<persia> Not referenced in the changelog as well.  Perhaps it needs an update.
<persia> Actually, be nice to s/dh_iconcache/dh_icons/ when updating as well.
 * Fujitsu checks the real 0.4.50.
<persia> I suspect it got missed in the merge of the documentation symlink stuff.
<Fujitsu> Probably, yes.
<slytherin> A package has 2 debian directory, one in root and one inside contrib directory. Which directory should I use to make my changes?
 * Fujitsu shall check the ubuntu diff shortly.
<persia> slytherin: New package, or update?
<Fujitsu> slytherin: If you want your changes to do anything, the former. If you want them to be useless cruft, the latter.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: thanks for the tip. :-)
<slytherin> persia: update
<persia> slytherin: Fujitsu is (as usual) correct, but it may be worth verifying that contrib/debian/ is in the upstream tarball, and if so, checking to see if there is already a bug in the BTS about it.  It's generally good for the Debian maintainer to ask upstream to not include it (or us, if it's an Ubuntu local package).
<Fujitsu> persia: Erk, it's deliberate that we exclude the changelogs.
<persia> Fujitsu: Where does it say that?
<Fujitsu> See first section of 0.4.49ubuntu3's changelog.
<Fujitsu> That sounds wrong.
<persia> That sounds very wrong.
<Fujitsu> And why the heck wasn't it mentioned in the merge changelog entry?
<Fujitsu> Too bad if $app looks for its changelog.
<Fujitsu> I wonder how much space we actually save by not including them.
<persia> Further, what about the user who is trying to understand a behaviour change and has just installed from the CD somewhere without net access.
 * persia thinks gzip is good at text files
<Fujitsu> They should compress very well, yes.
<Fujitsu> I recall this being discussed at some point recently.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<jscinoz> hey guys, im going over packages that people left feedback on, i've addressed all the problems but one.. he mentions "close a bug with the initial release" is this suggesting a file a bug on launchpad regarding the creation of this package and close it?
<persia> jscinoz: Exactly.
<imbrandon> jscinoz: yes
<jscinoz> could you link me a bug from someone else who's done the same thing just to see what i should say and such
<persia> jscinoz: By "close it", include "(LP :#nnnnnn)" in the changelog after "Initial Release"
<jscinoz> ah
<imbrandon> (LP: #nnnnnnn)
<imbrandon> ( small typo but important in the parsing i bet )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: We've got a little way to go before that's necessary, thankfully.
<persia> jscinoz: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging is the official list of bugs of that class (that need closing)
<Fujitsu> (ew, 7-digit bug numbers)
<persia> imbrandon: You're probably correct.
<imbrandon> persia: yea i'm the last to nitpick aobut typos hehe, except where a parser is concerned
<imbrandon> :)
 * imbrandon makes way too many himself
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i dident count, i just pressed "n" untill it "looked about right" :P
<imbrandon> one of those nights
<imbrandon> :)
<jscinoz> ugh firefox seg faulted >_<
<jscinoz> again.
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm sure I recall a discussion about it, but am unable to find it.
<persia> jscinoz: You might be interested in epiphany, konqueror, or midori
<imbrandon> epiphany is pretty nice, its growing on me
<Fujitsu> Even so, it sounds wrong, and I'd like to see stats on how much space it saves.
<persia> Fujitsu: There likely was one, probably in a Thursday meeting.  I still don't like it, and complain about it to packagers.
<jscinoz> its probably just related to having 200+ tabs open :P
<persia> It's especially annoying as it only affects CDBS packages, which are a minority.
<imbrandon> ?? i'm a bit lost
<Fujitsu> jscinoz: Ah, so you're like me. I always used to end up with well over 250 after a long Firefox session, but since I moved to Epiphany months ago I don't see the counts...
<imbrandon> what are we talking about ( persia Fujitsu )
<persia> imbrandon: cdbs (0.4.49ubuntu3) change to not include upstream changelogs
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: pitti's upload of cdbs to disable installation of upstream changelogs by default.
<imbrandon> wha!?!
<imbrandon> ewww
<imbrandon> that just sounds ummmm wrong
<persia> imbrandon: Yes.  Hence the discussion.  Note that this deviation is not mentioned in the 0.4.50ubuntu1 changelog.
<Fujitsu> Such a behaviour divergence from Debian sounds iffy, and changelogs are useful. And don't take up any significant amount of space, surely...
<imbrandon> what about all the apps that put the changelog in the "about box"
<nenolod> apps put changelog in aboutbox??
<persia> imbrandon: They can't use CDBS, or must use DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL
<Fujitsu> Thus making people digg excessively to find things.
<persia> nenolod: Some, yes.
<Fujitsu> nenolod: That's what I mentioned earlier.
<imbrandon> nenolod: yea
<nenolod> what apps?
<nenolod> i've never seen any apps which put the changelog inside the app
<Fujitsu> Hey StevenK.
<imbrandon> nenolod: for one any ones i write, but i have seen quite a few
 * StevenK waves
<imbrandon> heya stdin
<imbrandon> err StevenK
<imbrandon> damn tab complete
<Fujitsu> Oh great StevenK, what is your opinion on the matter?
<StevenK> I don't think it should be the default.
<persia> StevenK: You're just in time for a historic moment!  With your help, REVU can finally be cleared of candidates for the first time in the hardy cycle.  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=hardware-connected is the last awaiting comment
<Fujitsu> StevenK: `it'?
<StevenK> I think it should be simple to disable for large upstream changelogs, like Gimp, to save a little space on the CD
<Fujitsu> Right.
<jscinoz> persia what should i say for "in what package did you find this bug"
<persia> jscinoz: Leave it blank
<jscinoz> can i have just one bug for all 3 packages?
<jscinoz> since they are just for different components of the same application
<jscinoz> server, client and data
<persia> jscinoz: Three packages?  I thought you were down to two with the upstream collation of urbanterror and urbanterror-server (and yes)
<Fujitsu> One bug per source package, and I hope you have but one source package.
<persia> Fujitsu: No you don't.  Game engines should be separate from game data, or everyone has to download 534MB every time a bug is fixed.
<jscinoz> hmm
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, right, it's the abolutely gigantic one.
<Fujitsu> Sorry.
<jscinoz> im using the existing packages nexuiz and tremulous as reference, they have three packages, data, client and server
<jscinoz> and its more than 534mb now :P
<jscinoz> around 700 O_O
<persia> jscinoz: Best to break your packages to match upstream (except that -data should be separate), rather than matching other upstreams.
<jscinoz> hmm
<persia> That is, break your source packages.  You should further split your binary packages, likely into -client, -client-common, -common, -server, and -server-common.
<jscinoz> also in the source packages for the client and server, i've managed to get get-orig-source to create the orig.tar.gz from the combined upstream and strip out the other one (ie. if server, strip out client and vice versa)
<jscinoz> >_<
<persia> jscinoz: Nice work, but don't do that.  Use one source to compile both, and split five ways for installation.
<jscinoz> gah
<jscinoz> would it be any use to mention that even in the combined zip it still has distinct directories for server and client?
<jscinoz> the upstream one.
<persia> jscinoz: Not really.  Each "source package" should match one "upstream distribution package".
<jscinoz> fark..
<jscinoz> i have no idea how to do that >_< ie have one source package compile two binary packages.
<persia> jscinoz: Take a look at the tremulous package: it splits one source into tremulous, tremulous-server, and tremulous-doc.
<jscinoz> quick regexp question again
<jscinoz> the data upstream package version is 4.1, but is labled 41 by the server, in my watch file how would i mangle this to add the dot? i tried s/[0-9][0-9/\1./ but that didnt seem to work.
<StevenK> s/(\d)(\d)/$1.$2/
<StevenK> s/\(\d\)\(\d\)/\1.\2/ # for purists. Hi persia!
<persia> :)
<jscinoz> thanks
<persia> Anyway, sed was complaining about \d in earlier testing.  How about s/\\d/[0-9]/
<jscinoz> hmm the first one seems to work fine :)
 * Fujitsu gets back to reviewing hardware-connected after the diversion.
<persia> Excellent.  \d is definitely nicer looking
 * persia cheers Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> I forgot that I'd already started looking at it, as I'd only got into the first hunk of the diff before getting confused.
<Fujitsu> Aren't Vcs-* fields for packaging, not upstream?
<persia> Yes.
 * Fujitsu rejects hardware-connected.
 * persia points at http://gitweb.heh.fi/?p=ion/hardware-connected.git;a=tree;f=debian;h=448f9e311aff2b94598a225a78c2d2c5470856d6;hb=ubuntu from the Vcs lini in debian/control
<Fujitsu> I don't really like having packaging controlled in a private git repo.
<persia> Makes sense.  Private is a good reason for rejection.
<persia> Hurrah!  No REVU candidates waiting for feedback!
<AlinuxOS> Happy New Year - C Ð½Ð¾Ð²ÑÐ¼ Ð³Ð¾Ð´Ð¾Ð¼ - áááááªááá áá®áá á¬ááá¡ - Felice Anno Nuovo
<joejaxx> :)
 * Fujitsu wonders if we can have packages expiring from REVU after a couple of months or so.
<Fujitsu> (those that need work, that is)
<persia> Fujitsu: I've been archiving everything that hasn't had either an upload or a comment in three months.  I suppose I could make that sooner, but didn't have a strong opinion.
<Fujitsu> The period I picked was quite arbitrary.
 * Fujitsu is impressed at the second-last email to launchpad-users.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: seems standard
 * Hobbsee sighs at cheques, and how that requires actually going near banks
<persia> Hobbsee: It doesn't.  Post the cheque to your bank, with a note providing the routing code of the account into which to deposit it.
<StevenK> That sounds too complicated for an Australian bank, sadly.
<Hobbsee> *far* too complicated.
 * StevenK crowbars a rails installation onto a server
<StevenK> gem needs a better dependancy tracker
<persia> StevenK: Just package all the gems you want :)
 * Fujitsu doesn't really like gems, but finds Rails nice.
 * persia finds rails slow, annoying, and exceedingly limited, but quick for very simple things.
<StevenK> persia: Which has turned into like eight things. No thanks
<StevenK> Although, I'm very curious why there's a gem called 'cgi_multipart_eof_fix'
<persia> StevenK: Are you a haml convert yet?
<StevenK> Considering I don't know what that is, no. :-)
<persia> Because the rails default handler for multipart can't handle multiple files.
<StevenK> ... then why not fix rails ....
<StevenK> I have >200 DVDs, and of course, since I love over-engineering solutions, I had a database and web frontend
<StevenK> The problem was the web frontend was done in Python by hand. It was messy, crufty and exceedingly fragile.
<jscinoz> hey persia, i nearly have it done the wayyou said
<jscinoz> with the one source package making two binary packages.
<persia> jscinoz: Great!
<jscinoz> *nearly* :P
<slytherin> any java packaging experts here? facing a problem with ant and kaffe.
<man-di> slytherin: I remember a problem
<slytherin> man-di: which?
<man-di> slytherin: but I dont remember the solution
<man-di> slytherin: I think it was when I started using ant 1.7.0
<man-di> slytherin: packages started FTPFSing
<slytherin> man-di: Can you tell your problem in detail?
<man-di> slytherin: show me your error message and I can help you better
<man-di> slytherin: it was long ago
<man-di> slytherin: and its new years mornign...
<slytherin> man-di: I am getting something like, 'Can not find Kaffe's native2ascii class'
<man-di> slytherin: something like?
<slytherin> man-di: I am doing some changes and trying to build again. will let you know in a minute
<man-di> thats definitely not the problem I had
<man-di> slytherin: which package is this?
<man-di> I really wonder who uses native2ascii these days
<slytherin> freeguide
<man-di> which version?
<slytherin> man-di: Here is the error,  Couldn't load Kaffe's Native2Ascii class. ant-optional is already a build dependency.
<slytherin> man-di: freeguide-0.10.6
<man-di> here in Debian 0.10.6-1 uses java-gcj-compat-dev for building
<slytherin> man-di: Do you know the links for debian build logs?
<man-di> and I remember kaffe had Native2Ascii impl but only the command line tools
<man-di> slytherin: this is arch:all, buildds build only arch:any in debian
<slytherin> Yes, kaffe has command line tool and ant-optional provides a wrapper.
<man-di> what this is looking for is a special class inside the used JDK (kaffe in your case)
<man-di> just use jav-gcj-compat-dev and be happy, should just work
<man-di> kaffe should not be used anyway
<slytherin> man-di: It is not working. That is why there is FTBFS in Ubuntu. :-)
<man-di> with java-gcj-compat it FTBFSes too? error message?
<slytherin> man-di: In that case, it tries to find Sun's native2ascii. Looks like ant supports only these two options. There is no support for gcj native2ascii
 * man-di checks Debian's freeguide
<man-di> oh god...
<man-di> that is the worst java pacaking work I have ever seen
<man-di> slytherin: its probably best to use sun-java6-jdk or so as build-dependency
<man-di> slytherin: and PLEASE set JAVA_HOME in debian/rules
<man-di> I will file an FTPFS bug in debian later today
<jscinoz> hey guys, i have both the client and server built from the same upstream zip file, however this results in  client and server folder in my build directory, how can i modify my rules file to allow for this
<porthose> Does anyone feel like doing a couple of sync's?  If so please see bug #179275 and bug #179277, thank you :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179275 in ampache "Please sync ampache-3.3.3.5-dfsg1-1 from Debian sid main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179275
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179277 in ampache-themes "Pleas sync ampache-themes-3.3.3.5a-1 from Debian sid main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179277
<persia> jscinoz: call dh_install, and read the dh_install man page about splitting the package.
<slytherin> man-di: Yes, that works. I have already tried that. I just thought I would give a try to kaffe
<man-di> slytherin: there are some deeper problems in that package
<jscinoz> persia, having dh_install copy the files to the right locatoin isnt the problem, its the actual compilation
<jscinoz> ie for server it needs to cd to serverdir, build, and for client it needs to cd to clientdir and build
<persia> jscinoz: Right.  Compilation mixes all the files together.  dh_install allows you to pull it apart again.
<jscinoz> argh
<jscinoz> no
<jscinoz> ok.
<jscinoz> so since there are two binary packages being made
<slytherin> man-di: How come that package is built in debian?
<persia> jscinoz: Oh.  I understand.  Just call (cd server; $(MAKE)) and (cd client; $(MAKE))
<jscinoz> hmm.. ok i'll see if it works
<jscinoz> i thought i tried something like that with no result
<man-di> slytherin: the developer has SUN JDK installed and that is used on his system for building
<man-di> slytherin: you can see it when you look at debian/rules
<man-di> slytherin: no explicit JAVA_HOME set
<Fujitsu> slytherin: In Debian, the uploader uploads binaries too, so arch: all is never built on buildds.
<man-di> so the build uses /usr/bin/java...
<slytherin> damn, this is bad
<man-di> I know why I dont trust that special person maintaining that package
<man-di> he is the azurues maintainer in Debian too
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<man-di> Fujitsu: I guess you followed that story a bit... ;-)
<slytherin> what's the story?
<jscinoz> just started pbuilder, hope it works :)
<man-di> slytherin: endless problems
 * man-di needs a biiiiig coffee
<jscinoz> this is so strange
<jscinoz> the build of the data package fails because it cant find a file that ism
<jscinoz> isn't even referenced in the rules
<jscinoz> what the hell. its trying to copy a file that isnt mentioned ANYWHERE in debian/rules or anything.
<slytherin> jscinoz: which package?
<jscinoz> one im building
<jscinoz> ah my mistake
<jscinoz> on the dh_install line
<jscinoz> it was going up a directory :P
<slytherin> man-di: I have fixed the FTBFS, where do I upload the debdiff? Add to a bug?
<persia> slytherin: Adding a debdiff to a bug (and subscribing sponsors) will get it uploaded.  (and yes, the sponsors queue has been slow lately)
<slytherin> persia: I think that was redundant question. :-)
<slytherin> done
<ion_> fujitsu, persia: So, i should upload a version with the Vcs fields removed? (Of course, anyone could clone their own branch of the packaging and work on as an *alternative* to simply unpacking the source package and editing it directly. That would require the knowledge of the existence of the branch, though, thus i originally included the Vcs fields.)
<persia> ion_: While I can't be sure, I think you'd make Fujitsu happy by having a branch accessible to ~ubuntu-dev on LP.
<Fujitsu> ion_: One is not meant to edit a package that is maintained in a VCS without also performing the modifications in the VCS.
<Fujitsu> Having a supposedly-authoritative VCS branch that is not in sync with the real world is a recipe for disaster.
<ion_> So... Iâll simply remove the Vcs fields and itâs okay?
<Fujitsu> That should be OK, yes.
<persia> Fujitsu: Do you have an opinion on stripping the VCS fields from all the -XubuntuY uploads?
<persia> (that is, the alioth VCS fields)
<Fujitsu> They're normally clearly Debian, but it is questionable.
<persia> The hard part is the >10,000 packages that don't get modified.  When using apt-get source, the VCS warning is often incorrect (not that it shouldn't go to alioth, but that updating alioth isn't the best path to updating the package).
 * minghua hopes we don't end up with XSBC-Original-Vcs-*.
 * persia would prefer confirmed uncertainty with occasional mistakes of changes not getting into VCS to XSBC-Original-VCS-*
 * Fujitsu wonders why we use XSBC-* at all, and don't just modify Ubuntu dpkg to deal with it sanely.
<Fujitsu> That might mean it could be sorted sanely in the SBC, for example.
<persia> Fujitsu: That was discussed, and rejected.  It was considered less of a burden to use XSBC- Also note that the decision to use Original-Maintainer was taken about three weeks before anyone had a solution, and the solution started with people just uploading XSBC- rather than a patch.
<StevenK> Actually with people uploading X- and '' as well
<persia> And lots of other things, until geser set us all straight.
<StevenK> Right
<persia> Oh, Fujitsu, could you forward the NEW report for inkblot?
<ion_> persia, fujitsu: I released the previous snapshot as 0.0.1 and removed the Vcs fields: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=apt-mark-sync, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected
<persia> ion_: apt-mark-sync is already NEW.  It may not be modified until the archive-admins make a determination.
 * persia archives again
<LucidFox> I'm going to prepare interdiff updates for three packages at once... gtk2-engines-qtcurve, kde-style-qtcurve and kde4-style-qtcurve
<persia> LucidFox: Should they go in together to address the same issue?
<LucidFox> No, they can be upgraded separately
<Fujitsu> persia: Sure, I just hadn't seen that being done much lately.
<persia> LucidFox: OK.  Separate bugs then.
<persia> Fujitsu: Not many things have made it past REVU recently.
<persia> (and yes, not everyone is following the guidelines)
<Fujitsu> I assumed it had dropped out of policy at some point, sorry.
<persia> Fujitsu: No worries.  I hadn't heard of it dropping out, but perhaps it wasn't well enough advertised for this cycle.
<jscinoz> hmm using -X in dh_install excludes parital matches too correct?
<jscinoz> ie -Xtmp would also exclude .tmp.XXXXXX
<persia> jscinoz: Yes
<jscinoz> cheers.
<jscinoz> nearly done noe
<jscinoz> now*
<jscinoz> havnt rebooted my system in nearly 3 weeks now
<jscinoz> whole thing is slowing down :P
<jscinoz> with firefox segfaulting, and nautilus hanging
<jscinoz> :P
<slytherin> Does anyone apart from me thinks that gcjwebplugin is a redundant package considering existence of gcjwebplugin-4.1 and gcjwebplugin-4.2?
<jscinoz> hey persia
<jscinoz> are you emmet.hikory@gmail.com by any chance?
<persia> slytherin: Consolidation is good.  Check compatibility and reverse dependencies.
<persia> jscinoz: Yes.
<jscinoz> :D
<jscinoz> on your coment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=urbanterror-server what did you mean to say for point 6
<jscinoz> it looks like the end of it is missing
<persia> That is usually the beginning of my complaint about referencing specific versions of the GPL in debian/copyright rather than /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL.  My apologies that I failed to complete the sentence.
<jscinoz> ah
<jscinoz> :P
<jscinoz> you mention that again on point 9 too :P
<jscinoz> so i got the message about linking to the common license file :P
<persia> jscinoz: Sorry about that.  Maybe I meant something else.  I did too many reviews today...  Don't worry about point 6.
<jscinoz> alrighty
<jscinoz> hmm
<jscinoz> man this is gonna be a bitch to reupload this stuff
<jscinoz> the upstream developers came out with a new release
<jscinoz> so the ~500mb of data is now invalid >_<
<jscinoz> so i get to upload the new 700mb data package >_<
<persia> jscinoz: Don't feel bad.  Two of us have to download it.
<jscinoz> my isp's rated upload is only 128kbps >_<
<jscinoz> and thats the max rated
<man-di> 700mb data package? What insane software is that?
<jscinoz> so its morelikely around 50kbit
<jscinoz> urbanterror-data
<jscinoz> awesome counterstrike like fps, based on ioquake3
<jscinoz> and you gotta love australia ISP's for only letting us have around 100gb bandwidth per month
 * man-di cant see the need for such a package in any distro...well, I'm no gamer
<jscinoz> i could blow through that in a week >_<
<jscinoz> look at tremulous-data and nexuiz-data and prettymuch anything-data
<jscinoz> they're all huge
<man-di> jscinoz: huge is okay, but 700mb is terrific
<jscinoz> blame upstream :P
<persia> man-di: The issue is that everything "safe" needs to be distributed by the distribution.  We'll need to sort things someday, but for a while we're stuck installing everything.
<Fujitsu> jscinoz: 100GB!? I get 12GB (Optus).
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> why do they limit it?
<jscinoz> im with iinet, on the highest plan
<man-di> jscinoz: wouldnt a simple installer package have achieved the same goal?
<jscinoz> telstra :P joejaxx
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Because they're Australian ISPs, and Telstra are useless #*(*@#@8NO CARRIER
<joejaxx> lol
<persia> joejaxx: International links are supposedly expensive.  The more so when controlled by a monopoly.
<jscinoz> telstra have a monoploy of the international link
<joejaxx> persia: yeah
<jscinoz> so they keep the whole country back
<Fujitsu> Telstra have a monopoly of pretty much every bit of last-mile copper, as well.
<Fujitsu> And they have been known to retail ADSL plans for less than they wholesale them.
<jscinoz> the best you can get in aus atm is around 24mbit/1.5mbit, 160gb per month, for equiv of $100US per month
<joejaxx> jscinoz: wow
<joejaxx> that is ridiculous
<jscinoz> north korea has something like 50mbit downstream for whats like $20 per month :P
 * Fujitsu daren't imagine what persia has.
<jscinoz> although google is building a transpacific line to further their goal of world domination
 * persia needs a new router, because the current one can't handle the bandwidth in the fiber
<Fujitsu> Mmmm... Fibre...
<joejaxx> 15Mbps symmetrical is 55 usd
<Fujitsu> Our high-speed Telstra fibre at school is 4Mbps symmetric.
<Fujitsu> It was installed all of 24 months ago.
<persia> joejaxx: You can't get it that slow here :)
<joejaxx> persia: lol
<joejaxx> persia: how much is server co-location there?
<jscinoz> i hate you persia :P
<joejaxx> jscinoz: lol!
<jscinoz> GIVE ME YOUR INTERTUBES!
<persia> joejaxx: Maybe 40,000 yen a month.
<jscinoz> oh thats so lame
<joejaxx> persia: ah ok
<jscinoz> spent an hour building the packages and...
<jscinoz> ran out of space on /home
<jscinoz> gg
<joejaxx> jscinoz: hey that is better than building Xorg or Open Office to fix a typo
<jscinoz> :P
<jscinoz> we need some kind of differential compile lol
<jscinoz> blasphemy i hear the masses yell
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Xorg's not that bad.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yeah
<jscinoz> tremulous was pretty bad
<joejaxx> lol
<jscinoz> when i was messing around with it
<jscinoz> WINE's not quick either
<joejaxx> persia: is that for 1-2u?
<jscinoz> imagine compiling on one of those new skulltrail mobo's
<jscinoz> with dual quad-core cpuds
<jscinoz> cpus*
<jscinoz> and  i think each core is 3.2ghz :P
<joejaxx> LOL it is almost 6am
<persia> joejaxx: Not sure.  I haven't looked in a couple years.  1U I think.
<joejaxx> ok
<jscinoz> *compiles openoffice in 5mins*
<jscinoz> *whips laptop* I command you to compile faster.
<slytherin> persia: I am a bit confused, gcjwebplugin is present in debian while -4.1 & -4.2 packages are not. Are we deviating too mush from debian?
<jscinoz> i'll tell you a package that is well overdue for update in the repos... Azureus :P
<jscinoz> had the broken version since feisty >_<
<Fujitsu> jscinoz: It is long fixed in Hardy.
<jscinoz> joy
<jscinoz> is it a 3.x version now?
<jscinoz> or the latest 2.5x
 * jscinoz discovered he had 35gb in ~/.Trash
<persia> slytherin: There's no "too much" deviation.  It's best we try for the best (and easiest) user experience.  The closer we can get to Debian while doing that, the better.
<LucidFox> Uploaded interdiff for gtk2-engines-qtcurve
<LucidFox> Since they all have the same upstream version number, may I track all three qtcurve packages in the same bug, or should I file a separate one for each?
<man-di> slytherin: it got renamed to gappletviewer-4.X
<slytherin> oh.
<slytherin> man-di: One more thing. I may be wrong but it is possible that syncing latest java-gcj-compat* packages may fix the FTBFS of freeguide automatically. I will file sync requests with appropriate changelogs.
<joejaxx> jcastro: haha
<Fujitsu> jscinoz: It's 2.5.0.4, I believe. It was a deliberate decision.
<man-di> slytherin: no, java-gcj-compat has nothing to do with the native2ascii implementation in gcj-4.2
<jscinoz> better than 2.5.0.1
<jscinoz> 2.5.0.1 would segfault on opening torrent details and randomly :P
<slytherin> man-di: The reason I thought it will is this - http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/j/java-gcj-compat/java-gcj-compat_1.0.77-2/changelog#versionversion1.0.76-5
<man-di> slytherin: that is the symlink for the binary, *not* the class ant is trying to load
<man-di> slytherin: ant doesnt use the binary, it uses the direct implementation in the tools.jar of the JDK
<minghua> Hmm, is there a tool to change Maintainer to XSBC-Original-Maintainer automatically?
<persia> minghua: in ubuntu-dev-tools (although I find having the text available for X clip easier, personally)
<minghua> persia: Thanks.
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<Kmos> can someone look at this one, bug 179599 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179599 in libparse-debianchangelog-perl "[FTBFS] libparse-debianchangelog-perl (1.1.1-1) fails to build in hardy" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179599
<persia> Kmos: Looks reasonable.  Why ask for review here?
<Kmos> persia: daniel and norsetto are in holidays.. :( and where should I ask ?
<Kmos> :)
<persia> Kmos: Most people submit to the review queues when they are sure.  On the other hand, given your special circumstances, I understand.  Anyway, it looks OK, and I'll expect to see it in the reviewers queue once they return from holidays.
<Kmos> persia: ok, so I'll wait for them..
<Kmos> Now, I'm working on gap package.. it also FTBFS because of bashism =(
<persia> There's an awful lot of that: especially in arch:all packages.  I'm becoming more and more of a fan of source-only uploads each day.
<Kmos> persia: that's a problem.. but we'll fix them and report to debian.
<persia> Kmos: Yep.  Just be sure to test in Debian when reporting a bug in Debian, and demonstrate a Debian bug, rather than just referencing the Ubuntu bug (although the Ubuntu usertags is a good way to keep track).
<Kmos> persia: I'll be sure.. for example, the maintainer of this one is in launchpad, so i'll subscribe him and he knows what to do =)
<man-di> Kmos: dont count on that
<man-di> I for one have a launchpad accont to but only look into launchpad stuff once a month if not less
<persia> That sometimes works, but due to some early plans for massive Debian integration, all Debian maintainers are in launchpad, but they don't all pay attention, and some can be annoyed.  Better to just fix the bug, and if it really affects Debian, open a bug in the BTS.
<Kmos> man-di: he has an active account, let's have some faith =) hehe
<man-di> Kmos: as said, mine is active too
<Kmos> Michael Koch
<Kmos> I see you somewhere
<Kmos> :)
<man-di> common name, we were two with the same name in one class in school
<Kmos> Some Debian maintainers really don't like Ubuntu.. and don't care for the fixes we do here for their unstable stuff.
<Kmos> man-di: I born in germany, but not lived their.. so isn't that :)
<Kmos> hehe
<man-di> Kmos: you should better care, it will make your merging/syncing work easier
<man-di> Kmos: and helps everyone
<Kmos> man-di: I care.. the Debian maintainer are the ones that don't care and answer sometimes really orrogant.
<Kmos> *maintainers
<minghua> Ugh.  Apport even trackes crashed in pbuilder login (and after much deliberation, tells me the file that crashed is not in the package database...).
 * minghua forgets -sa again. :-(
<zachy> hi, happy new year!
<jussi01> hmmm, is it possible to get to the uploads from the old revu? I had an old archived one but i cant seem to find it
 * minghua thinks it has something to do with the compromise.
<persia> jussi01: They are gone.
<jussi01> :(
<persia> jussi01: Which package?
 * jussi01 cries
<jussi01> persia: gsopcast
<jussi01> persia: It was one of my first, and never got through because of a small license issue.
<jussi01> brb
<persia> jussi01: Unfortunately, it appears like I didn't review it.
<jussi01> persia: sad. Im going to have a look through my backups on my NAS again, perhaps it is there
<jussi01> aha!!
<jussi01> found it. now for the questions.
<ion_> persia: Would you perhaps consider advocating http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected, since http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=1100&upid2=1125 are the only changes from the previous version you advocated? Thanks. :-)
<persia> ion_: Not again today.  I'll take another look tomorrow (I'm all reviewed out).
<ion_> Alright :-)
<ion_> Thanks for your work so far.
<jussi01> I have a binary engine file included. However it doesnt have any licensing attached. I have though, an email from the sopcast team that says I may distribute it. How do I go about doing this?
<persia> jussi01: You really shouldn't.  if you really, really, really want to do that, you need to package it perfectly, and wait and watch as people overlook your package in REVU and resubmit whenever people complain about the binary blob (even though there is licensing).  Note that the archive-admins also reject based on blobs not built from source in some cases, so you might need several pushes, and external discussion.  In short, you don't (or at lea
<ion_> don't (or at lea$
<jussi01> persia: please give us the rest ;)
 * persia dislikes buffers: "...don't (or at least it's very hard),"
<jussi01> persia: go install irssi
 * jussi01 goes and cries... 
<geser> jussi01: so this package is i386-only?
 * persia notes that irssi also has buffers
<ion_> How are buffers related?
<ion_> That is, are we thinking of the same buffers?
<jussi01> geser: correct
<persia> ion_: There's a character buffer that blocks undue flooding.  Unfortunately, for those inclined to verbosity, these buffers are insufficient for discourse.
<StevenK> Read as "persia talks an awful lot before pressing Enter, and he hits the IRC line length limit"
<ion_> Many clients can split the lines automatically.
<geser> jussi01: what license does this software have? is it redistributable with the binary blob without source for it?
<jussi01> geser: the front end is gpl'd, however the backend is a binary that is freely redistributable, and I have an email saying I can distribute it (as extra verification)
<ion_> âYouâ as in you or as in everyone?
<jussi01> ion_: it reads like this.   Yes, you can include sopcast software in the ubuntu repository.
<jussi01> and you can use this letter as an official authorization for
<jussi01> your distribution. Thank you.
<persia> Isn't there some rule about distribution-specific allowances being considered non-free?
<geser> persia: does it matter? because of the binary blob it has to go to multiverse nonetheless
<geser> as long the whole is redistributable
<minghua> persia: Yes, in DFSG.  But also as geser said, it probably doesn't matter.
<cyberix> persia: Fixed. Was there something else?
<jussi01> So it is possible to do?
<geser> jussi01: the binary blob is inside the same tarball as the gpl code?
<cyberix> I'm looking after first advocate for my package malbolge. I've fixed all problems that have been brought up. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
<jussi01> geser: no
<jussi01> geser: would I have to package them separately?
<geser> I guess yes, but I'm no licensing expert
<persia> cyberix: I'm not performing full reviews right now, but your changelog still doesn't close a bug.
<cyberix> Oh
<cyberix> I guess I didn't quite understand.
<cyberix> I try to find an example
<geser> cyberix: add "(LP: #xxx)" to your changelog entry (where xxx is the bugnumber)
<persia> cyberix: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/hardware-connected-0801011120/hardware-connected-0.0.1/debian/changelog
<Ubulette> Happy New Year everyone
<Ubulette> I've updated http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mozilla-devscripts  please have a look
<Ubulette> about mozilla-devscripts, it's a build-dep for pkgs in main, i assume it has to be in main too, right ?
<StevenK> Ubulette: Right
 * StevenK ought to debug this 64-bit bug in mpg321
<StevenK> Frame# 32090 [18446744073709529818], Time: 01:07.00 [03:21.85]
<StevenK> I seriously doubt there is 18,446 trillion frames in my entire mp3 collection, let alone that one mp3
<Ubulette> lol
<StevenK> cd
<geser> permission denied
<StevenK> :-P
<Adri2000> I'm going to request removal of bmp-alarm and bmp-musepack, as beep-media-player has been removed already. (there are replacements for these two plugins in audacious-plugins-extra for audacious anyway). unless anyone objects.
<geser> Adri2000: do we have (need?) a transitional package for bmp?
<Adri2000> geser: no we don't, neither does Debian. they just removed it: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=422681
<ubotu> Debian bug 422681 in ftp.debian.org "RM: beep-media-player -- RoM; RoQA; abandoned upstream; superseded by bmpx and audacious" [Normal,Open]
<minghua> If bmp was not installed by default (is it even in main), I'd say transitional package is not necessary.
<minghua> And what would a transitional package be anyway?
<txwikinger> transitional would depend on audacious in order to install that instead or something like that
<minghua> So does audacious provide all features of BMP?  And do you need transitional packages for each bmp plugin/extension package as well?
<minghua> Sounds more trouble made than solved to me.
<txwikinger> well the other alternative is questions and bug reports by users complaining :)
<geser> minghua: without a transitional package users having bmp installed will keep it, an totally unmaintained package
<minghua> geser: I understand that.  I don't think there is a good solution other than saying "bmp is abandoned, please use another music player" in documents or release notes, though.
<RainCT> if a package is in Ubuntu but is not build yet (I know it is because it's ubuntu/+source/x page on LP exists, but it's empty), how can I know what version it is?
<man-di> RainCT: doesnt rmadison tell about its source version?
<crimsun> if rmadison doesn't, you'll likely need to look at the NEW queue
<RainCT> man-di: yes, but only it's version in Debian
<RainCT> (or at least it says "unstable", so I guess it's Debian)
<minghua> RainCT: rmadison -u ubuntu foo
<minghua> (or use a more recent Ubuntu release :-)
<RainCT> ah, thanks, I never used rmadison before :P. it gives no output though
<geser> RainCT: did the package enter Ubuntu?
<crimsun> i.e., if not, look here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
<crimsun> s/edge\.// if you're not a member of the LP beta team
 * RainCT forgot to power on the speakers
<RainCT> geser: it isn't in any of the queues
<RainCT> oh, now there's the changelog in Launchpad
<Adri2000> how can I mass-close bug reports on LP? mail?
<geser> nixternal: Hi, you added libmotif-dev (multiverse) to build-depends for pdfedit (universe). That doesn't work, can it be build with lesstif?
<RainCT> Adri2000: you could use python-launchpad-bugs, but afaik you still have to close each one individually
<RainCT> geser: ah no, I entered the wrong URL :P, it's still not there.. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightyears/
<geser> RainCT: was it uploaded to Ubuntu?
<RainCT> geser: I only know that there's a empty LP page for it :/
<RainCT> if it wasn't in Ubuntu that URL should give a 404 page
<geser> I'm not sure if uploads to PPA create those pages too
<RainCT> ah
<RainCT> that would explain it :P
<RainCT> thanks
<Ubulette> RainCT, i just answered your ff3 bug
<RainCT> Ubulette: I've the latest one from hardy
<RainCT> Ubulette: when will beta 2 be in hardy?
<Ubulette> it is ready since nearly 2 weeks
<Ubulette> once a "paid dev" is back at work, it should be in
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<ianm_> I'm looking for someone to package https://launchpad.net/screen-ruler
<RainCT> ianm_: I'll look at it :)
<ianm_> RainCT: that would be great.  please let me know if you need anything
<ianm_> RainCT: it depends on these libgtk2-ruby libglade2-ruby libcairo-ruby libgconf2-ruby
<Ubulette> persia, crimsun: could you please re-check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mozilla-devscripts ?
<RainCT> ianm_: I PMed you
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<erpo> The gpsd package is 3 versions out of date. Whose job is it to keep the package up to date?
<imbrandon> erpo: in this case it looks like the debian maintainer hasent updated
<imbrandon> erpo: depends on the package ( there is a Maintainer: field for questions like this )
<geser> erpo: we try to sync with Debian to keep our workload low but can move ahead of Debian if necessary (and someone willing to do the work)
<erpo> imbrandon: The Maintainer: field says Ubuntu MOTU Developers. Is the "Original-Maintainer:" field always Debian's maintainer?
<erpo> Also, rather than coming in here and asking each time I see an out-of-date package, how can I find out for myself the reason that the package hasn't been updated? How did you know that the debian maintainer hadn't updated in this case?
<imbrandon> hrm looking at the package there is no ubunut changes, infact its a sync
<imbrandon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/misc/gpsd
<imbrandon> where are you seeing MOTU ?
<erpo> apt-cache show gpsd|grep Maintainer
<imbrandon> there hasent been a ubuntu specific version dapper
<imbrandon> anyhow in this case since there is no ubuntu changes is how i knew it was because the debian dev hasent updated it, vs us lagging behind in a merge
<erpo> So, you can tell whether or not it's a straight sync from debian or an ubuntu-specific version by looking at the filenames on the web page?
<imbrandon> erpo: correct
<imbrandon> erpo: version numbers tell alot, thats why things are versioned they way they are :)
<erpo> When Ubuntu does a straight sync from Debian, where do the packages come from? Testing? Unstable? Experimental?
<imbrandon> unstable
<erpo> imbrandon: So if I want to get gpsd 2.36 into Ubuntu, I need to find out who maintains the package in Debian Unstable and get them to update. Then Ubuntu will automatically update.
<geser> imbrandon: for binary packages Maintainer is always mangled
<imbrandon> erpo that is one way to go about it yes
<imbrandon> but this late in the cycle i would be looking at updating the ubuntu package directly also
<pochu> erpo: Not automatically anymore, since we are past DebianImportFreeze
<imbrandon> pochu: it will automaticly update, just not for hardy :)
<erpo> pochu: That's a very descriptive term for what is going on. I'm beginning to get a feel for the way Ubuntu releases happen.
<pochu> imbrandon: but I guess he wants it for Hardy, and not for Hardy+1 ;)
<pochu> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<erpo> pochu: Actually, I want it now, but I'll settle for Hardy.
<erpo> pochu: If I want it in gutsy, should I try to get it into gutsy-backports? Is that how it's done?
<imbrandon> erpo: now isnt an option, you can get it updated for hardy then backpoerted possibly
<imbrandon> right but it needs to be in hardy before it can be backported
<erpo> imbrandon: Well, now is always an option if I build it myself ;)
<erpo> imbrandon: Ok, that's very clear.
<imbrandon> erpo: sure, but then you wouldent be here :)
<erpo> heh
<imbrandon> anyhow, if this was "my goal" i would do the following to ensure it happens this late in the cycle: get ahold of the debian maintainer , ask them to update, if they can get it into debian unstable before feb 1, great, if not then look at getting a MOTU to help you get it directly into hardy and then request a backport to gutsy after that
<imbrandon> ( hopes it dident get cutoff )
<erpo> imbrandon: Nope, it didn't. ("...gutsy after that")
<imbrandon> if tey do get it in debian then just request a sync
<imbrandon> but Feature Freeze is feb 14 , so get this done prior to feb 1
<imbrandon> to be safe
<erpo> It looks like hardy is already behind debian unstable.
<erpo> They have 2.35 and we have 2.34.
<imbrandon> when was .35 uploaded , likely after debian import freeze
<erpo> Aha.
<geser> erpo: quite possible as we stopped autosyncing from Debian during December
<erpo> 2.36 with the 2008 bug fixed is in Experimental.
<zorglu_> q. i got a executable binary, but it is launched by a shell script. so i would like not to have it in the path in order not to confuse the user. any suggestion of where i should put it ?
<erpo> zorglu_: You could do like firefox and call the binary firefox-bin while calling the shell script firefox.
<imbrandon> or mono apps do /usr/lib/<app>/executable
<zorglu_> erpo: i could but it would still be 'visible' to the user
<zorglu_> imbrandon: ok i like this one
<zorglu_> thanks both of you :)
<erpo> Does anyone happen to know how long it takes a package in debian experimental to trickle into debian unstable so that I can request a sync?
<bddebian> You can request from experimental if you know it works
<erpo> bddebian: Can I test that by downloading the experimental deb and installing it on my system?
<erpo> I mean, if my current system uses an unmodified debian package, it stands to reason that the updated package won't need any special modifications.
<bddebian> Aye but sometimes theres some weird shit in experimental :-)
<erpo> But that's what I'm looking out for, right? It _should_ work.
<bddebian> Aye
<imbrandon> erpo: its best to download the epirmental package and rebuild it for your system ( ubuntu ) and then install it
<imbrandon> debian is built with a diffrent toolchain etc
<imbrandon> not a good idea to just install the binarys from there
<imbrandon> food time brb
<erpo> imbrandon: So I'll download the source package and build from that.
<imbrandon> right
<erpo> Ok, off to play.
<erpo> Thanks all!
<psusi> why in the world are init scripts treated as conffiles?
<ion_> Some people might want to edit them.
<imbrandon> probably because they are conf files, and they are in /etc/
<psusi> that doesn't neccesarily make them conf files
<imbrandon> wwwwwwwwwwwhat would you consider them then? they arent data generated by a program
<psusi> you really aren't supposed to edit them since they are scripts provided by the package maintainer... heck, they very well could be binaries
<imbrandon> err
<geser> psusi: isn't e.g. change the boot order also a configuration?
<psusi> that would be done by renaming the symlink, not editing the file
<man-di> psusi: why make it complicated when it is simple?
<psusi> it just seems really odd to still have a boot script around that is just supposed to start some daemon, but may still be there if the daemon is removed
<psusi> so the script has to test for the existence of said daemon
<man-di> psusi: when the package is purged the script goes away
<imbrandon> psusi: purge
<psusi> yea... but when it isn't...
<psusi> you have a script laying around still trying to start a removed package
<psusi> and it complicates the script because now it has to test for the existance of the package
<psusi> don't want to get rid of any actual configuration files ;)
<man-di> psusi: the script should check if the binary is avialabloe before trying to start it
<psusi> that's what I'm talking about
<man-di> psusi: testing is one line
<psusi> that seems odd
<imbrandon> psusi: one line is "complicated" ?
<man-di> so what is complicated?
<psusi> moreso than otherwise, yes
<imbrandon> even if it wasent a conffile it would still be best practice to make sure something was avail before trying to run it
<imbrandon> so not really
<man-di> imbrandon: FULL ACK
<geser> psusi: if you move the init-script to e.g. /lib/initscipts then you need to check if the symlink points to an file before executing it
<ion_> Wow. My brain initially parsed that as FU** ALL. :-D
<psusi> not really... the package would be broken and thus the script SHOULD fail
<psusi> geser: huh?
<geser> if you initscripts is outside /etc and you have only the symlinks in /etc and then remove the package (and also the initscript) then you symlink points nowhere
<psusi> this is so weird... I can not for the life of me figure out how dmraid is installing its init script
<psusi> update-rc.d is called in postinst and told to remove the script
<psusi> yet there it sits
<man-di> psusi: this system was developed over 20 years now, it is okay how it is
<psusi> ohh... SJR must have removed it... seems he's already modified it in hardy
<geser> psusi: if I look into the postinst for dmraid 1.0.0.rc13-2ubuntu6, I see in the postinst a block starting with "# Automatically added by dh_installinit
<geser> " right after the update-rc.d remove call
<geser> where the symlinks are created
<psusi> weird... I don't... I just see #DEBHELPER# after that
<imbrandon> #DEBHELPER# is a subsitution
<psusi> eh?
<geser> ah, you look inside the source package, it's placed there by dh_installinit
<imbrandon> e.g. #DEBHELPER# gets replaced by debhelper on build
<psusi> ohh, in the binary package you mean that gets replaced?
<geser> yes
<psusi> ahhh... and it replaces it with code to install the init script?
<man-di> psusi: yes
<psusi> how does it know what priority it should be given?
<man-di> look into debian/rules
<geser> #DEBHELPER# inside the postinst (and the other scripts) is only a marker where the different dh_* scripts can put their code (if needed)
<psusi> aha
<psusi> I could not figure out how on earth that was being done
<man-di> psusi: man dh_installinit
<man-di> psusi: and man debhelper
<man-di> they describe this
<RainCT> good night
#ubuntu-motu 2008-01-02
<jscinoz> persia you here?
<crimsun> (idle 9+ hours)
<ion_> Iâd guess heâll be awake within an hour. :-)
<ion_> I know because i remember our sleep rhythms have a phase difference of about 12 hours. :-)
<ion_> Uh, that was a brainfart. Going to sleep when someone else wakes up doesnât mean that.
<Ubulette> crimsun: could you please re-check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mozilla-devscripts ? I've fixed the FSF address
<crimsun> Ubulette: looks good.  Archived, uploaded.  Thanks for your work!
<Ubulette> thx
<Ubulette> will it be in main or universe ? it's a build-dep for some packages in main
<Ubulette> well, s/it's/it will be/
<Ubulette> obviously
<ion_> Could someone perhaps take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected? (A small program that checks whether given hardware exists in the system; suitable for scripting)
<crimsun> Ubulette: it will go into universe per default.  An MIR for main promotion should turn up no issues, but it's up to the Ub moz team to request that.
<Ubulette> ok, i'll ask asac then
<Ubulette> i'm part of ub moz team btw ;)
<crimsun> (yes, I know :-)
<crimsun> heh
<crimsun> /* Why yes, I do have the NIH syndrome. */
<Ubulette> eh?
<crimsun> referring to ion_ :-)
<Ubulette> oh
<jscinoz> Hey guy's i've reuploaded my urbanterror and urbanterror-data packages, fixing most if not all the issues persia brought up on them. Could someone review them if possible?
<crimsun> you're queued (save -data; it's too large for me to download without having to resort to MAC-changing hacks)
<crimsun> ion_: not a blocker, but consider putting redistribution terms in your man pages, too.  Never know who's going to review it for, say, Debian, and might be more pedantic than me.
<ion_> Shall i do it immediately, or for the next release?
<crimsun> wouldn't hurt for the former
<ion_> Ok, iâll upload it in a bit.
<crimsun> I wouldn't -not- advocate it simply because of them being missing, however.
<jscinoz> crimsun were you referring to me with "you're queued..."
<crimsun> jscinoz: yes.  I'm processing another source package currently.
<jscinoz> oh :)
<ion_> I donât really get how GPL-2 affects documentation (whereas i do understand its implications on *code), but i guess iâll just throw it to the man pages as well. :-P
<ion_> I mean, itâs not as if anyoneâs going to create a new product from the man page alone. :-)
<ion_> crimsun: Ok, i uploaded a new package with licensing info in the man page. It should be visible on REVU in six minutes or so.
<rzr> hi
<rzr> i was wondering, i plan to update a new upstream version of package
<rzr> is it better to do it debian or ubuntu side ?
<crimsun> former if at all possible
<rzr> which one to start with ?
<crimsun> rzr: do the work in the Debian repo, then request an Ubuntu sync from Debian
<rzr> ok that's what i thought too but it may be slow
<Ubulette> I've created a set of (Prism) webapps for google maps, with fullscreen and auto-hidden control.
<Ubulette> now I want to package that
<Ubulette> Does this make sense: http://paste.ubuntu.com/3184/ ??
<CheGuevara> homepage goes under source i believe
<Ubulette> not here, I want homepages per webapp
<CheGuevara> oh right
<Ubulette> i've already packaged prism and some webapps so the syntax is correct. Here, I'm not sure about fr and de
<Ubulette> i looooove google maps
<Ubulette> i can spend hours on it
<crimsun> rzr: you can e-mail the maintainers and utilise #debian-mentors on OFTC.
<rzr> i am in contact w/ them
<rzr> will try then
<effie_jayx> hey guys I want to gt back to motu work tomorrow
<effie_jayx> any areas where I should focus... or should I jst try bug fixes...
<effie_jayx> ?
<persia> effie_jayx: bug fixes would be great.  There's also still a large number of packages unique to Ubuntu and missing watch files.  Also, it's coming near time to start testing upgrade paths: if something in Dapper or Gutsy doesn't upgrade to hardy cleanly, this should be fixed.  And there is always the FTBFS queue.
<Ubulette> good advices as always
<effie_jayx> persia,  great
<Ubulette> persia, did you read my question about google maps / prism ?
<persia> Ubulette: Yes.  Is this just a selection of prism shortcuts?
<effie_jayx> persia,  let me see if I can decode all you said ;)... packages unique to ubuntu (merges) ?
<persia> effie_jayx: No.  packages unique to Ubuntu aren't merges, because they aren't maintained in Debian.  See http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ for the lists of missing watch files, broken watch files, and packages not in sync with upstream.
<Vorian> I can help with watch files
<persia> Vorian: We're missing 460.  Please do :)
<Ubulette> persia, i've created some css to customize the webapps, that's the added value compared to the -classic one
<Vorian> persia: I'm on it :)
<persia> Vorian: great.
<Vorian> persia: what's the procedure after the watch file is added?
<effie_jayx> persia,  k I shall focus on them and see If I can be more productive...
<persia> Ubulette: OK.  I can now see the rationale for the package.  Next question: why not have a prism-plugins package that contains all the various services you might want to add later, to save common data, rather than prism-$myapp packages for each interesting set of packages.
<persia> ?
<nxvl> happy new year!
<Vorian> hey nxvl, happy new year to you :)
<persia> effie_jayx: OK.  Watch files are good, but if you get bored with them, consider looking at upgrade paths and FTBFS (and always, bugs need fixing).
<Ubulette> persia, hmm. those are not plugins at all, but standalone applications.. the difference with any other app is that it's web based, through prism (and xulrunner)
<ion_> persia: I uploaded apt-mark-sync 0.0.2-0ubuntu1, as crimsun suggested adding licensing info to man pages as well, but i understand what you wrote in the previous uploadâs comments (about waiting for archive admins).
<effie_jayx> i am writing this down
<persia> ion_: The issue is that once it is in the NEW queue, nobody is going to upload it from REVU.  If it gets rejected, please resubmit.  If it gets accepted, a debdiff (or interdiff) addressing the outstanding issues would be most welcome.
<Ubulette> persia, each deb contains at least a .webapp file, a .desktop file and one icon
<persia> Ubulette: How about prism-applications then.  I'm just thinking you don't need lots of different debian/rules and debian/copyright, etc. files for each of the web applications.  Different binary packages is good, perhaps all depending on a -common and symlinking to /usr/share/docs/prism-applications-common
 * persia wishes LP worked nicely with prism
<Ubulette> persia, to share what ? i don't see what would be in the commom package
<persia> Ubulette: /usr/share/docs/prism-applications/* (copyright, changelog, README, etc.).
<Ubulette> LP, me too, but that mean changing the design (of LP)
<Ubulette> +s
<persia> Maybe nice to have some documentation on extending it too, which might encourage upstreams using Ubuntu to submit bugs for inclusion of their applications (when they work with prism).
<Ubulette> persia, what does copyright mean in that context ? i'm author of the css file, not the icon and of course not of the web site
<persia> Ubulette: /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright is pulled from debian/copyright.
<persia> (in which you'd indicate the copyright owners of the css file, and the icon)
<Ubulette> yes but then, what is shared in common ? it's always different per webapp
<persia> Ubulette: If you have one source package per webapp, you need to store all of a .dsc, a diff.gz, and an orig.tar.gz on the servers, plus a full binary for each architecture for each application.  As these are all small, they would compress together with considerable savings, so the total disk space used by the archives would be smaller.  A minor point (and per-app isn't wrong), but maybe interesting.
<persia> By putting them all in a single source package, you only have one debian/copyright (which goes in -common), one debian/rules, etc.
<Ubulette> hm. i see. something like prism-webapps as unique source pkg, with dirs grouping webapps per family, one being google-maps (ie my current source tree)
<Ubulette> and 1 bin deb per webapp
<persia> Ubulette: Right.  As an added benefit, you wouldn't need to go through source NEW for each new webapp (although you still have binary NEW).
<persia> Ubulette: Unless there's a strong argument against (say a main/universe split, etc.), you might just stuff all the new binaries into the prism source, if you like.
<persia> Actually, I take that back.  The prism source tracks upstream, and prism-webapps would have a different upstream (some LP branch).
<Ubulette> i want to keep prism alone.
<Ubulette> yep
<Ubulette> hmm, i feel there's something good here. thanks
<Ubulette> about doing .fr .de .co.jp .whatever, is that a problem ?
<Ubulette> it's not really localization
<persia> Doesn't google maps mirror it correctly?  If not, you'd get style points by picking a mirror based either on user-locale or user-physical-location (assuming you have a reliable means to determine this).
<persia> (so a single app that checked the current status, and called the right prism shortcut)
<Ubulette> it's not really a mirror. maps are probably the same but services are not always in sync, and languages are different for everything. seems difficult to auto detect that..
<persia> Ubulette: The user locale should at least give you a preferred language.  It's not wrong to have separate binaries, but matches "just works" better if users are automatically redirected to their preferred language environment.
<Ubulette> my desktop is US, yet I'm french, and I read/type jp and cn sometimes. which webapp would I want?
<imbrandon> presumeably what your locale is set to
<imbrandon> thats the reason for it
<Vorian> what is the watchfile syntax for git snapshots
<persia> Vorian: Does upstream never release at all?
<Vorian> my bad
<Vorian> thanks for the reminder :)
<persia> Vorian: Sure.  Just track the latest release (and the snapshot should be newer).  When upstream makes the next release, it should tell us that we don't need to track a snapshot anymore (which is good).
<Ubulette> (I'll do the watch files for mozilla packages, I wanted that to be part of mozilla-devscripts sometimes)
<persia> Ubulette: watch files must be in the affected source.  On the other hand, having mozilla-devscripts use the watch files to keep the team informed sounds like a good way to do things.
<Ubulette> persia, that's what i meant.
<persia> Excellent then :)
<Ubulette> -be part of+be used by
<rzr> can you suggest me a page to read to sync a package like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/177986 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177986 in ubuntu "please sync package whitedune from debian experimental" [Undecided,New]
<persia> rzr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<rzr> ok perfect
<persia> rzr: We've passed DebianImportFreeze, so you'll want to include a short Rationale explaining why the sync deserves a freeze exception (many do, but to make it easier for the person approving the freeze exception)
<rzr> actually i can wait next freeze
<persia> rzr: Would the sync you wanted to request not benefit hardy?
<rzr> no, i am not hurry
<Ubulette> persia, initially, I wanted this google-maps thing to be native (as it was so small). I bet you're opposed to the idea, right?
<persia> Ubulette: Yep.  Especially so as other distributions that ship prism would likely also benefit from some nice CSS wrappers to make certain applications look nicer.
<Ubulette> yep
<Ubulette> i wish some css artists could make google-reader and gmail looks more gnomish
<imbrandon> prism is gnome only now?
<Ubulette> no
<imbrandon> ahh then very bad idea
<Ubulette> lol
<persia> imbrandon: Why?  If there were selectable CSS to match shipped desktop themes, wouldn't that be an improvement?
<imbrandon> sure if it was selectible
<imbrandon> but as just discovered with the maps localization , apparently prism apps cant choose css at rumtime
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  So let's welcome CSS submissions for Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc. and then complain if it doesn't work right (it would be a bug).
 * persia advocates wrapper scripts
<imbrandon> well with wrapper scripts you have more than one  binary, i'd rather think of it as a bug in prism that cant select css at runtime
<persia> imbrandon: That works for me.  File a bug.
<imbrandon> after all the css is a conffile in this case and most apps accept a conffile location overide
<imbrandon> on cli
 * persia doesn't think css should be a conffile, only a configuration file.
<Ubulette> changing css at runtime is possible in firefox so as it's also a xul app, prism should be able to do it at some point (it does not now)
<Ubulette> google reader is good for languages, you can just change it at runtime in the settings
<jscinoz> persia, have you had a chance to review my changed urbanterror packages?
<persia> jscinoz: No, and I probably won't be reviewing much again until next Monday (especially for large, complex packages).  I suspect you've fixed most of what I found, and think someone else would likely give you better feedback.
<jscinoz> ok cheers :)
<jscinoz> also for the old server source package which is no longer needed since both source packages are combined into one, do i need to do something to remove it or just make a comment saying that and leave it?
<persia> I already archived it, based on your advertisement for the new package earlier.
<jscinoz> thanks :)
<imbrandon> mmmm if my meta-data was free i would be happy ...
 * imbrandon pondersa moment
<imbrandon> anything on revu need doing before i get off in my own little world ?
<imbrandon> ugh i have to return to work tomarrow after this long holiday :(
<Hobbsee> hum.  now, i didn't mean to upload mplayer
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: heh
<LaserJock> happy New Year MOTU Land!
<joejaxx> LaserJock: !!!! :D
<persia> Happy New Year LaserJock
<LaserJock> I'm finally back home
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ponies!
<LaserJock> ... with internet
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: so, now you have time to put up the ponies, which you carefully wrote while you were away
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: ah yeah, I was trying to work on it some over the vacation but the lack of internet was difficult
<StevenK> PONIES!
<LaserJock> my parents 28.8 dialup was ... painful
<StevenK> Where do they live, the Sahara?
<Hobbsee> somewhere in australia
<LaserJock> no
 * StevenK scoffs
<LaserJock> Montana
<LaserJock> they are only 5 miles from town
<crimsun> hey now, I'm on a 28.8 ATM.
<LaserJock> but they can't even get full dialup speeds
<StevenK> LaserJock: Is their phone line pair gained?
<imbrandon> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> they are looking into doing internet over satellite
<LaserJock> but it's pretty pricey
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<StevenK> Internet over satellite is expensive and laggy
<LaserJock> I managed to snag myself a shiny new laptop over Christmas
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> StevenK: yep, but that's pretty much their only option
<StevenK> One-way is ~ 400ms, two-way is ~700ms
<StevenK> SSH over two-way satellite is somewhat painful
<LaserJock> this new laptop has a big 12cell battery, I've only heard of 6 and 9cell
<imbrandon> yea i had to use satalite in TX , was not fun, at times dialup is less laggy
<LaserJock> but it gets ~ 5+hrs right now so that's cool
<imbrandon> LaserJock: nice
<imbrandon> man i'm gonna go nuts no smokin, ugh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: heh, I saw that
 * StevenK waits for imbrandon to start holding his pen like a cigarette
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> "Trying to quit, are you?" 'Yeah, how can you tell?' "You've been trying to light your pen for three minutes"
<imbrandon> BWHAHAHA
<imbrandon> sounds about right
<imbrandon> i've started chewing toothpicks, i have already went through one whole box in 24 hours
<imbrandon> not even 24 hours
<StevenK> I'm not sure if splinters are any better
<imbrandon> heh, my trashcan by my desk is full og mtdew cans and splintered toothpicks
<imbrandon> of*
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon: how's MOTU SRU going?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: good, not much action atm but seems to be working out well
<imbrandon> i'd imagine mid jan things to pickup
<LaserJock> I'm still going through email but it looks like we might need to clarify/document some stuff on -motu ML
<imbrandon> i've given up on the flashplugin thing, its a no win any way i have gone about it, i'm for removal at this point
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea, a little clarification might be in order but all in all i think its ok
<imbrandon> mostly it was just those not on irc that got confused , but a simple email should clear things up
<LaserJock> mhm
<imbrandon> we cant even do the 60mb thing with a clear mind, it has security flaws
<imbrandon> so to fix the security issues we have to break konqueror
<imbrandon> and then presumeably fix it
<ion_> Iâm going not to ever have started smoking in the first place. :-)
<imbrandon> ion_: that would be a good thing
 * StevenK quit smoking years ago
<imbrandon> adobe really screwed us on this one
<ion_> (New tenses for time travelers: going not to have ...ed)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: flash?
<imbrandon> yea
<StevenK> I got sick of being completly out of breath after running up a flight of stairs
<imbrandon> StevenK: exactly
<LaserJock> why does it do that? just too much crap in your lungs?
<persia> StevenK: You just forgot to maintain the extensive level of exercise required to smoke (not that smoking is good, or anything)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: deminished lung capasity
<imbrandon> lucky for my pocket book though toothpicks are far cheaper and have less side effects
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> yeah, cost alone would make me not want to start
<imbrandon> $0.50 a box , per week VS. $5 a day for cigarettes
<StevenK> imbrandon: Yes, but you look like an absolute tool buying fourteen packets of toothpicks
<imbrandon> hahaha
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<ion_> Who said you donât look like one for buying cigarettes? ;-)
<StevenK> Or asking the supermarket for a cartoon of toothpicks ...
<imbrandon> i'm sure they will be far easier to put down
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> if there is a package that is going into ubuntu but that is not in debian do we ignoren the XSBC-O-M warnings?
<joejaxx> ignore*
<imbrandon> joejaxx: no it should still have a  @ubuntu maintainer addy iirc
<joejaxx> that is interesting
<joejaxx> so should i put myself as the original maintainer?
<imbrandon> yup
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> the @ubuntu.com requirement is archive-wide, regardless of source
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i was just wondering since it was not in debian :P
<joejaxx> so even for native packages?
<joejaxx> ie without with -0
<xtknight> how come XSBC-O-M is not automatically added for everything sync'd?  (like sometimes when ppl make debdiffs they have to fix XSBC-O-M)
<persia> joejaxx: What native package?
<imbrandon> yea unfortunately the spec just obsoleted the Maintainer Field imho
<LaserJock> joejaxx: yep, just one of the side effects of implementing something archive-wide to "fix" something debian-specific
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yup
<persia> xtknight: It is added in the binary packages, but we don't modify the source packages.
<joejaxx> lol wow that stinks :\
 * joejaxx puts himself in there twice :P
<joejaxx> j/k
<LaserJock> joejaxx: if it's got an "ubuntu" in the version it needs an ubuntu address
<imbrandon> and native packages
<imbrandon> ( the few of them )
 * persia notes that ubuntu maintainers with no XSBC-O-M are welcome, as long as the ubuntu maintainer is a small team or specific person, and the package doesn't exist elsewhere to get an original maintainer.
<LaserJock> imbrandon:  if they don't have an ubuntu version they won't need it afaik
<persia> LaserJock: There are a few Ubuntu-native packages with Ubuntu native versions (e.g. ubuntu-meta)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: native means there is ONLY a ubuntu version ( i dont mean debian native )
<joejaxx> so should i just make it native?
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> joejaxx: no
<persia> imbrandon: Some of them have been adopted by debian (who doesn't use -XdebainY amusingly)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I mean "ubuntu" in the version
<imbrandon> LaserJock: right i do too
<imbrandon> e.g. ubuntu-meta
<persia> joejaxx: The only reason to have a native package is if you are truly convinced it isn't useful anywhere else.  There are lots of annoying issues with passing native packages back and forth with Debian, and even worse ones for other distributions.
<LaserJock> well we can have Ubuntu native packages without "ubuntu" in the versino
<joejaxx> persia: oh ok
<imbrandon> LaserJock: right and they still need a @ubuntu addy
<LaserJock> and those wouldn't fall under the address checking
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no they don't
<imbrandon> LaserJock: why not ?
<LaserJock> because there is not policy that says so, as far as I know
<ion_> Anyone feel like taking a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected (a program to check whether certain hardware is connected; for scripting)? I believe i have taken care of the problems pointed out so far. Thanks. :-)
<persia> joejaxx: Also, a lot of packages that are mostly Ubuntu aren't native.  mythbuntu-* is a good set of examples.  The packaging is all done in LP, and pulled occasionally into the distro.  Nobody else uses it, but they could if they wish.
<imbrandon> sure its the same policy, just because there is ONLY ubuntu changes doesnt make it less a ubuntu change
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no, the debian maintainer spec only says that if it has "ubuntu" in the version that it needs an ubuntu address
<joejaxx> i only brought it up because i put the version as -0ubuntu1 and dpkg-source was complaining :P
<imbrandon> joejaxx: rightfully so
<persia> LaserJock: The debian maintainer spec only applies to packages maintained in Debian.
<LaserJock> persia: not exactly
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ok, thats a bug imho, but ok
<LaserJock> it's enforced archive-wide
<persia> joejaxx: For non-native, you need to have a separate orig.tar.gz
<joejaxx> and this is why i am confused
<joejaxx> as i am not a debian maintainer
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  That's just pragmatism.
<persia> joejaxx: You don't need to have it, but people like to see it in case they have a question about the initial packaging later.  In my opinion, it's largely useless (as long as Maintainer is an Ubuntu address).
<LaserJock> persia: right, but that's the "policy" we have
<LaserJock> what the archive will and will not accept
<LaserJock> anyway, gotta run
<imbrandon> l8tr
<persia> LaserJock: The policy we have is that all packages need to have an ubuntu maintainer.  We don't have a policy that all packages must have XSBC-Original-Maintainer, although many people use that.
<LaserJock> first day back at work tomorrow
<joejaxx> i do not even know if i have a ubuntu email yet
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> or where it points to
<joejaxx> if i do have one
<imbrandon> it points to your LP prefered mail
<joejaxx> imbrandon: is that automatic?
<LaserJock> persia: the spec states "If a source package is modified relative to Debian (this can be determined automatically by examining the version number), its Maintainer field should be updated either as above, or with a more appropriate Ubuntu contact if one exists."
<imbrandon> joejaxx: semi automatic, run once or twice a week by elmo
<joejaxx> oh ok
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  "relative to Debian".
<LaserJock> so clearly an Ubuntu native package doesn't fall under that
<imbrandon> LaserJock: -0ubuntu1 means not in debian but will/could be someday, still relitice
<imbrandon> relitive
<persia> The argument would be that all our Ubuntu-unique packages are numbered incorrectly, but that's a different issue.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: right, but you don't have to have "ubuntu" in the version
<joejaxx> uh oh i hope pbuilder does not error out :\
<persia> LaserJock: Right.
<LaserJock> our versioning is messed up a lot of times
<imbrandon> LaserJock: sure , the archive wont accept a 1.0-0 versioned package, thats against policy too
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no, but I have native packages that have no "ubuntu"
<StevenK> imbrandon: Sure it does, 1.0-0 is valid
<imbrandon> StevenK: valid for dpkg , not according to the package guide though
<LaserJock> there's nothing that policy that states that a package originating in Ubuntu must have "ubuntu" in the version
<imbrandon> LaserJock: true, but the Maintainer spec should imho cover ubuntu native packages too
<imbrandon> since they are native someone in ubuntu must maintain them
<imbrandon> if "ubuntu" is in the version or not
<joejaxx> so just put motu as the maintainer and me as original and that is it right ? :)
<persia> imbrandon: Someone needs to maintain them.  If the maintainer is MOTU, we prefer XSBC-O-M, but it's not a policy requirement.
<imbrandon> persia: right
<imbrandon> joejaxx: correct
<imbrandon> joejaxx: whats your LP id ?
<joejaxx> lp id?
<imbrandon> lp user name
<joejaxx> joejaxx
<joejaxx> great pbuilder create did not fail
<RAOF> /topic
<RAOF> Um... right.
<RAOF> Happy new year, MOTU :)
<imbrandon> joejaxx: check your @@fluxbuntu.org email, i just sent a test message to your @ubuntu.com addy
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> i did not receive it
<imbrandon> give it a few minutes, my @{k}ubuntu.{org,com} email is normaly slow
<joejaxx> oh ok
<imbrandon> i dident get a bounce , so it should go "somewhere"
<joejaxx> up there it is
<imbrandon> there you go :)
<joejaxx> :)
<imbrandon> apparently it works , heh
<imbrandon> iirc you have to request if you want something other than @ubuntu.com , e.g. @kubuntu.org or @xubuntu.org
<imbrandon> but elmo is normaly happy to accomidate
<joejaxx> oh ok :)
<imbrandon> ugh, my dad ( hardcore windows guy ) just sent me a link to Freespire
<imbrandon> asking "have i seen this yet"
 * imbrandon faints
 * Hobbsee steals all imbrandon's smokes, then
<imbrandon> i guess some linux is better than no linux though
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: hehe i made sure they were all gone before new years
<imbrandon> just so i wouldent be "tempted"
<imbrandon> leaste now if i give up i have to goto the store , no one else in the house smokes
 * imbrandon just not realized that sse3 in /proc/cpuinfo == pni
<imbrandon> s/not/now
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> anyone have a link to the repository rules for debian?
<persia> joejaxx: What do you mean by "repository rules"?
<joejaxx> as in section migration
<joejaxx> experimental -> unstable -> testing
<joejaxx> etc
 * StevenK tries to debug rails not working by strace'ing apache
<imbrandon> exirmential -> unstable is manual iirc, no automaitc at all
<persia> Ah.  experimental -> unstable is manual, by maintainer action.  unstable -> testing depends on urgency and the presence of new bugs.
<imbrandon> unstable --> testing , no new RC bugs and 10 days old iirc
<persia> StevenK: Consider using a different front-end, and only using apache as a proxy server.  Rails is known to act oddly with Apache.
<RAOF> imbrandon: That matches my observations.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: persia yeah but i was wondering if that was posted somewhere
<joejaxx> :D
<StevenK> persia: I am, though
 * joejaxx is building cryptofs
<joejaxx> :P
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  I never thought stracing the proxy server would be more informative than watching tcp traffic, but perhaps it's just me.  I suspect your routes.
 * joejaxx wishes there were more stenographic filesystems :(
 * RAOF wonders why joejaxx is interested in stenographic filesystems.
<joejaxx> all the current ones lack development and/or are for 2.{2,4}
<StevenK> persia: Mongrel works if I connect to it directly
<joejaxx> RAOF: :)
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  So it's not actually one of the many ways in which Rails doesn't work :)
<RAOF> joejaxx: I mean; why stenographic?
<StevenK> persia: I have a rewrite rule to throw stuff to the cluster of mongrels, too.
<StevenK> persia: It seems Apache is picking dispatch.cgi on it's own
<imbrandon> joejaxx: you need to check the Britnet docs probably
<imbrandon> joejaxx:
<imbrandon> Britney starts considering packages after 10, 5 or 2 days, depending on how
<imbrandon> urgent the uploads since the last testing migration are. A package needs to
<imbrandon> be in sync on all architectures, and also be less buggy than the package
<imbrandon> currently in testing. Also, they must not break another package in testing.
<imbrandon> Britney is a python script, mixed with c-code, and available at
<imbrandon> http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_out_code/
<persia> joejaxx: What's the point?  You'd need a massive library of known clean data to make it worthwhile.  Stenography is interesting because it's hidden, so stenography against single files is easier to hide than stenography against a collection (although I suppose you could download lots of kiddieporn, and nobody would bother digging up your secret stuff while complaining about it)
<joejaxx>  RAOF haha sorry i spelled it wrong
<persia> StevenK: Very odd.  I always used mod_proxy (but may now be able to safely forget about Rails again).
<joejaxx> steganographic
<joejaxx> sorry there bag typo
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> sjdfsljdfslkd
<joejaxx> bad*
<StevenK> persia: I've set up a Proxy balancer, and have a bunch of rewrite rules
 * persia fails completely at being sufficiently pedantic
<joejaxx> grr want my thinklight back :(
<joejaxx> imbrandon: thanks
<persia> StevenK: And it still reaches dispatch.cgi?  Odd.  Some people use pound to avoid some of that.
<StevenK> Impressive. Now I get 403
<joejaxx> RAOF: i do not want a shorthand filesystem :P
<joejaxx> LOL
<RAOF> joejaxx: Soft! :P.  Real men keep their binary files in shorthand.
 * imbrandon thinks everyone should just use fat16
<joejaxx> persia: because i am interested in all things security/crypto{graphic,analytic}
<joejaxx> RAOF: lol
<joejaxx> imbrandon: bah :P fat12
<persia> joejaxx: Sure.  There's a place for stegonography, but I just can't see the point of a filesystem interface.
<joejaxx> :P :)
<imbrandon> whats /proc/kmsg ? kernel messages ?
<joejaxx> i wish we had a experimental target for the repos :(
<joejaxx> :P
<persia> joejaxx: PPA
<Hobbsee> persia: no, ubuntu-only
<persia> Hobbsee: How do you mean?  Is not a PPA a place where one can upload ubuntu-targeted packages for review and testing prior to application to the development target?
<Hobbsee> persia: was thinking of wanting to build against debian experimental
<persia> Ah.  Right.
<persia> Does build-depending on sun-java6-jdk work now, or will that cause a FTBFS on the buildds (like it does for my local sbuild)?
<imbrandon> i havent seen or heard either way
<Fujitsu> persia: If the following fixes it, it will work on the buildds:
<imbrandon> id imagine its the same as local though if your upto date
<Fujitsu> echo "buildd shared/accepted-sun-dlj-v1-1 boolean true" | debconf-set-selections
<Fujitsu> (that's from .bash_history in the buildd chroot)
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: so it works? or you have to add that to the rules ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Anything checking that debconf key will work.
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> bout time hehe
 * persia wonders if it makes sense applying that in the schroot source partition
 * persia grumbles about NEW packages from debian that wouldn't pass REVU
<Fujitsu> persia: eg?
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm just looking at whitedune now, but notice that a lot of the NEW packages we pull from Debian pre-DIF generate lintian warnings or informational messages.
<StevenK> Hmph
 * StevenK grumbles about Apache/Mongrel
 * persia suspects pound was invented to get around the bug exposed by that combination
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What's not working? I have such a setup on a server around here somewhere.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Stuff that is supposed to be served by Apache such as (stylesheets/) is returning 403
<Fujitsu> Missing a chmod o+x somewhere?
<StevenK> Not that I can see.
<XiXaQ> I'd like to make a request for django docs to be packaged and made available trough the repositories. How do I do that?
<imbrandon> XiXaQ: if your not willing to do the packaging yourself just file a needs-pacakging bug
<XiXaQ> in launchpad?
<imbrandon> yes
<persia> XiXaQ: Are the docs in the django source package, and just not in the django binary package, or are they a separate upstream release?
<XiXaQ> it's available though a subversion repository, is all I know.
<imbrandon> ...
<StevenK> Grah, more proxy tom-foolery
<persia> mruiz: Just for future note: it's better to drop config.sub and config.guess changes from your debdiff when presenting for review.
<minghua> persia: Should we fix it so that config.{sub,guess} changes are not included in .diff.gz?
<minghua> (On a second though, it won't help if the previous version is already changing those two files...)
<persia> minghua: No.  We should fix the packages so that they fall into the two safe categories: manual updates of config.{sub,guess} (thanks for the }), or if automated, not automating in the clean rule.  debian/rules clean should never make a package less clean.
<minghua> persia: But if it's automated, you still need to delete them in clean target, no?  (That's what I mean by "fix it".)
<persia> minghua: No need to delete if they will be overridden.  If upstream provides some junk, it's just inflation of diff.gz.  Doesn't affect build-twice-in-a-row either.
 * minghua is still not sure what persia means, but decides to drop the topic.
 * persia has seen packages that patch these files in debian/patches, and then override them later in debian/rules, which is just bad.  Best to leave them alone if being copied.
<persia> minghua: I like the behaviour of debdiff to include all changes to the package.  I don't want to "fix" that.  I personally believe that copying config.{sub,guess} should not happen in the clean rule, as it makes the package less clean.  If it happens in another rule, there is no need to clean up afterwards, as the contents are ignored at build-time.
<minghua> persia: "... as the contents (of config.{sub,guess}) are ignored at (source package's) build-time", you mean?
<persia> minghua: Right.  Therefore it passes the build-twice-in-a-row test.
<huats> morning everyone
<huats> :)
 * persia notes that it doesn't pass the clean-is-clean test, as `debian/rules clean` doesn't reset the package to the original state, but personally believes build-twice-in-a-row and clean-doesn't-make-it-less-clean are more important tests.
 * minghua just deletes config.{guess,sub} in clean target, and since deleting files are not supported when building source package, the .diff.gz won't have anything to do with config.{sub,guess}.
<persia> minghua: Don't you end up with a reversion patch in diff.gz?
<Iuli> G'morning, huats.
<minghua> persia: No.
<minghua> persia: dpkg-buildpackage/dpkg-source tell me something along the line of "deleting config.guess can not be reflected in the source package, ignoring this change".
<persia> minghua: In that case, deleting in clean: seems sane to me.  Thanks for the demonstration (I've just been looking at the scim source).  I still think copying in clean is wrong (which is what generates the noise in debdiffs).
<minghua> persia: I agree with you that copying stuff in clean target is wrong.  And debian-devel list (http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/122686) seems to agree, too.
<persia> Excellent.  I always like to see others agreeing with me :)
<minghua> Ugh.  Why are those digg people keeping submitting some hardy theme proposals as news to their frontpage?
<persia> DarkSun88: Best to include a short summary as to why any given update deserves a DIF exception when submitting a merge or sync request.
<imbrandon> hrm is there a class browser or soemthing for python
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ^
<imbrandon> like if i want to see the methods fro apt_pkg without reading the source
<imbrandon> from python-apt
<RAOF> imbrandon: import apt_pkg ; help('apt_pkg')
<imbrandon> hrm ok
<RAOF> You can conceivably do something more funky, but that should get you all the classes and whatever documentation they have.
<minghua> "pydoc apt_pkg" is probably easier to type?
<rzr> persia: thx for updating the bug
<RAOF> minghua: Oh, cool :).  Thanks.
<imbrandon> ahh perfect , thnaks minghua
<imbrandon> err thanks
<minghua> RAOF: I didn't know "help()", thank you for that. :-)
<RAOF> Fair trade :)
<RAOF> I suppose this is a difference in coding practice.  I invariably do may python learning in a python shell.
<RAOF> s/may/my/
<persia> rzr: You're the person responsible for whitedune?  Please fix all the lintian warnings and informational messages.
<rzr> sure
<RAOF> minghua: Just for some additional info, "help()" will get you an interactive-ish version.
<persia> rzr: Thanks.  If you're quick about it, you might even get it in before the archive admins sync, which would be preferable for releasing the best package possible with hardy.
<rzr> I hope I can do this today
<minghua> RAOF: I don't seem to see any difference help on Debian unstable.
<RAOF> minghua: help() in a python shell should get you into the help-shell thingy, where you can do such things as "modules" to get a lest of all the modules and stuff.
<minghua> RAOF: Ah, you mean help() without any arguments.  I see, thanks.
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  That'd be a better way of putting it!
<imbrandon> i'm JUST getting comfy with python, its takin some gettign used to :)
<imbrandon> ( esp when my preferd lang is c# )
<Amaranth> minghua: You can also do help(gtk.Window)
<persia> nenolod: Why is the new libmowgli better?
<nenolod> persia, it has a faster memory allocator
<persia> nenolod: OK.  How many of the rdepends break if it gets updated?
<nenolod> persia, which audacious can transparently take advantage of at runtime (it uses the same API as the old one)
<nenolod> persia, zero
<persia> nenolod: OK.  Might be worth mentioning these things in your DIF exception request :)
<nenolod> probably. i apologise for that. ;)
<persia> nenolod: No problem.  You're around, responsive, and have quick answers.  Let me know when the description is updated, and I'll push it.
 * persia wonders if Rospo_Zoppo is using a new nick these days
<nenolod> persia, done
<persia> nenolod: Thanks.
<persia> Does anyone know where it is documented that bumping the standards version is considered a good thing to do when making an Ubuntu change?
<Kmos> persia: didn't saw it
<TheMuso> No. IMO its better to leave it, unless you have a compelling reason to bump it.
 * minghua thinks it's a bad thing.
<minghua> You should only bump standard version if you've reviewed the package and made sure it complies the new standard.
<persia> TheMuso: That's my thought as well.  I'm happy to see a bump from things like 2.0.1, as long as it includes all the changes, but I'm seeing quite a large number of debdiffs including an apparently untested standards bump, and wonder if correcting a document wouldn't be the best way to stop that.
<broonie> You're probably seeing that because lintian bleats about it.
<persia> minghua: I agree with your expansion, although I'm not sure bumping is always bad.  There's some orphaned or ubuntu-only packages that could really use a proper overhaul.
<broonie> So people will bump the version to shut it up.
<persia> broonie: I'd like to believe that, but I'm seeing it without other fixes to quell lintian.
<broonie> persia: Given how trivial a version update is (even if you do do the check 99% of the time there are no changes) I suspect it's going to get done more than most updates.
<persia> broonie: I guess.  Perhaps due to the "I can fix that issue" mentality.  Maybe it's not documented (which would be less bothersome).
<bluekuja> good morning everyone
<bluekuja> persia, broonie, minghua, TheMuso: :)
<persia> welcome back bluekuja
<bluekuja> thanks mate :)
<bluekuja> persia, are the buildds back on working again?
<bluekuja> e.g fixed from that chroot issue
<persia> bluekuja: i386, amd64, lpia, and hppa are happy.  powerpc and sparc are waiting for infinity
<bluekuja> great, I'll wait them to ask a give-back for some uploads then
<minghua> Hello bluekuja.
<minghua> Hmm, "waiting for infinity" doesn't sound right... :-P
<bluekuja> ^^
<geser> minghua: hopefully it doesn't take to long to wait for infinity :)
<Seveas> bad, bad joke!
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> how can I apply an interdiff to a directory?
<persia> RainCT: How do you mean?
<RainCT> persia: if I have the old source and an interdiff, how can I apply the interdiff?
<RainCT> ah, it's just a normal patch
<RainCT> nevermind :P
<persia> RainCT: combinediff -z interdiff old.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > new.diff.gz (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopement/Interdiff
<persia> )
<mpt> Yo
<persia> Dou?
<mpt> I have a question about <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Weekly>
<persia> mpt: What's the question?
<mpt> Why does that page exist?
<mpt> How could Launchpad be improved to that separate wiki page isn't necessary?
<persia> Someone thought it would help get a set of beginners tasks completed every week.
<mpt> to -> so
<persia> The more general answer is likely more interesting for the bugsquad, as they use that feature more agressively for the bug days.  Having a means by which a team could identify a set of bugs of interest for an event, perhaps with statistics available when the event completes would probably do it, but bdmurray would be a better requirements driver than us.
<mpt> hmm
<mpt> I wonder if mass bug tagging would suffice for that
<persia> Specifically about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Weekly, launchpad does a pretty good job with tags: we tend to use "bitesize" and "packaging" to create dynamic lists that are similar to that, but more advertisement results in more contributors pushing more solutions, so we like to have things in lots of places.
<persia> Maybe, but it misses the green/orange feature.
<Fujitsu> Those lists are already produced by searching by tag.
<persia> (and filtering)
<Fujitsu> Ah, by absence of patch it appears, true.
<persia> dholbach is still on vacation, but he tends to try to make those lists contain interesting things for new people to do, and updates it manually weekly.
<mpt> Ah, what's the green and orange for?
<mpt> I don't see a key anywhere
<geser> mpt: the key should be in the source of the page
<persia> mpt: key means someone made a patch, or otherwise found a solution.  orange means it needs attention.  The key is actually on the bug day pages (and yes, that's probably a bug)
<mpt> geser, heh
<Fujitsu> persia: s/key/green/?
<mpt> so it is
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  Thank you.
<effie_jayx> morning all
<Hobbsee> evening!
<mpt> Thanks for your explanations persia
<Hobbsee> heya mpt
<mpt> hiya Hobbsee
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  sorry ... for being selfish and not consider alltime zones...
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: no problem :)
 * Fujitsu sentences effie_jayx to a year living in $OBSCURE_TIMEZONE.
<persia> mpt: Happy to share :)  Please do contact bdmurray and dholbach about that, as I'm sure they'd have some good descriptions of how to meet that feature requirement.
 * effie_jayx python's he's way out of Fujitsu's curse...
<persia> effie_jayx: Don't knock it until you've tried it.  UTC-11 or UTC+13 is a fairly nice part of the world.
<geser> persia: is there also a decent internet connection?
<persia> geser: As far as I know, decent net connections only stretch from UTC+9 to UTC-8.  There's OK bandwidth as early as UTC+11, but it gets expensive due to annoying monopoly practices.
<nenolod> i only bump standards-version when i know my packages are in line with that version ;p
 * Fujitsu shoots Telstra.
<persia> nenolod: That's the right way to do it (although one hopes that is soon after the version bump was announced).
<effie_jayx> persia,  have I knocked on something?
 * persia thought there might be a spot of decent connectivity in UTC-11, but finds that modems are still the normal means there.
<persia> effie_jayx: Sorry.  Idiom.  "knocking something" -> "knocking it down" -> indicating something is bad (you called it a curse).
 * effie_jayx steps back into the $OBSCURE_TIMEZONE
 * persia doesn't think UTC-4 qualifies as obscure
 * mpt gets homesick thinking of UTC+13
 * Hobbsee occupies UTC+32
<Fujitsu> mpt: Ah, so the rumours are true.
<minghua> Really?  I thought Hobbsee was in UTC/3 or something.
<geser> Hobbsee: the whole timezone? either is it really small or ...
<Hobbsee> of course not.
<Fujitsu> UTC/3. Sounds interesting.
<persia> mpt: UTC+13?  Summer time, or really that far east?
<effie_jayx> persia,  I have been trying to read on ugrade paths ... the documentation I found seems missing.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UpgradePaths
<StevenK> persia: New Zealand
<persia> effie_jayx: Yep.  It's a work in progress.  Basically, testing Dapper -> Hardy and Gutsy -> Hardy for all packages.
<persia> StevenK: only half the year (but it answers my question).
<effie_jayx> I'm guessing dapper hardy should be fun... with all the python 2.4 to 2.5 changes
<persia> effie_jayx: We're expecting some things to break, especially for Dapper -> Hardy.  These might need extra hints in control, or restoration of handlers in the maintainer scripts.  Python is a good example of something that could cause confusion.
<effie_jayx> well i look forward to helping there
 * effie_jayx considers FTBFS
<mruiz> hi all. Happy New Year !
<geser> Hi mruiz
<persia> Vorian: Please unassign yourself when submitting bugs to the UUS queue.
 * Fujitsu finds that part of the process to be silly, but necessary due to Launchpad's lack of a good workflow for sponsorship.
 * persia agrees with Fujitsu
 * Hobbsee ponders s/for sponsorship//
<Hobbsee> </bitter>
<Fujitsu> We shouldn't really have to hack sponsorship processing into the existing task.
<Hobbsee> it really shouldn't be necessary to have to handcode the URL to actually find things, most of the time.
<Fujitsu> That too.
<Fujitsu> Hopefully Soyuz will sort itself out soon :)
<Fujitsu> But then there's the larger problem of latency on a scale that only Launchpad seems to be able to manage. That makes proper navigation impractical.
<persia> LucidFox: Are you planning any further updates to bug #179655, or is it ready now?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179655 in kde4-style-qtcurve "Upgrade qtcurve to 0.55.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179655
<LucidFox> persia> It's ready
<persia> LucidFox: OK.  Which of them get applied?  The last one?  All of them?
<LucidFox> All of them.
<LucidFox> There are three interdiffs, each for its own package.
<persia> Right.  Is it nearly the same source?
<LucidFox> They're not necessary to apply all at once
<LucidFox> No, upstream distributes each one as a separate tarball
<LucidFox> but all with the same version number
<persia> Right.  I'm not sure if that is good or not, but I suppose it's life.  Also, what's the problem with uscan & kde-look.org?
<LucidFox> kde-look.org uses HTTP redirects
<LucidFox> with nondescriptive URLs
<persia> Ah.  Nice of them.  Thanks for the details.
<persia> LucidFox: Separately, consider applying for =ubuntu-bugcontrol to be able to set Importance.
<zoli2k> Hi, I want to build a small ubuntu derivate for a USB key. How can I download the base system?
<persia> zoli2k: You probably want to start with the alternate CD, and this isn't really the right place to ask (but I don't know which is the right place).
<LucidFox> persia> How do I do that?
<zoli2k> persia: I know that there is a script in the ubuntu repo to download the basic binaries but I can't remember for its name.
<LucidFox> wait, never mind
<mpt> Fujitsu, is that sponsorship problem reported?
<zoli2k> I want to add in chroot some packeges and pack it by squashfs.
<persia> LucidFox: It also gets you access to the crash bugs, which might be handy, as you tend to fix some of them :)
<persia> zoli2k: You might mean debootstrap, but you might mean something else.  I'm not the best person to ask about that.
<Hobbsee> mpt: can't we get the bugs fixed that are there now, before adding mroe?
<Fujitsu> mpt: Quite possibly not. As it's a significant change, I'd probably try to elicit a response from some UI person first. This seems to have worked.
<zoli2k> persia, that's it! thanks
<persia> mpt: We have a workaround in place, and it would likely take 6 months for us to change workflows.  Let's wait until this starts to have scaling issues before looking to the next solution (as we'll likely want to keep that for a couple years).
<mpt> Fujitsu, you know how to push my buttons
<mpt> persia, if it's reported now it's unlikely to be fixed in the next six months, but we may get a head start on designing a better solution
<Hobbsee> s/6 months/12 months/
<Hobbsee> </bitter>
<zul> morning
<mpt> The fix for bug B can be designed while the fix for bug A is being coded
<mpt> So, Fujitsu, tell me about sponsorship
<mpt> Is there a summary of the process I can read?
<persia> mpt: OK.  If we're looking at something to be implemented in the 6-12 month timeframe, I'd hope our volume would reach the point that we're ready to properly review an interface.  Right now we're only at around 10-20 sponsorships a day, which isn't impossible.
<mpt> Pretend I know nothing about what a sponsorship is (because I don't)
<persia> !sponsorship
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sponsorship - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> Grumble.
<Hobbsee> what's it supposed to be?
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue might be interesting pages to read.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm not sure yet :P
<minghua> !sponsor
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sponsor - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> Actually, I don't thin it comes up enough to need a factoid.
<persia> s/thin/think/
<minghua> ubotu spends too much time remembering things like pointy sticks. :-(
 * Fujitsu reappears.
<Hobbsee> persia: the DB is big enough.  a few more wont hurt
<mpt> thanks persia
<mpt> eek
<mpt> "If the patch needs work ... Set the Status to 'Incomplete'"
<Hobbsee> what eek?
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> yes, welcome to that rotten janitor.
<Hobbsee> so, you get 60 days to fix the patch, or else :)
<persia> mpt: It kills rotten patches.  They have been found wanting, so aren't very useful, usually.  If an active contributor submitted it, they are subscribed to the bug, and tend to act.
 * Hobbsee would have thoguht that was a fiarly standard use of incomplete, actually
<persia> LucidFox: I get output like http://paste.ubuntu.com/3198/ from all the qtcurve packages.  Any suggestions?
<Fujitsu> mpt: See how this process is nasty, now?
<mpt> persia, but is the bug report devoted to the patch? Or is it about a bug that might get fixed by this patch, or might get fixed by another?
<Hobbsee> mpt: usually it's devoted to the patch, but if there's a bug already filed against the issue, it's on that bug.
<persia> mpt: Good point.  Current set tends to be about half & half dedicated.
<mpt> If the bug report is dedicated to the patch, having it expire is fine
<mpt> But if a real bug report gets expired merely because someone made an abortive attempt to fix it, that's not so good
<persia> mpt: Arguably, as the issue that was being patched likely still exists (even if reported by the patch submitter)
<DaveMorris> which reviewer is it thats emmet.hikory@
<DaveMorris> persia: ?
 * persia notes that the process hasn't been updated since the introduction of the janitor
<persia> DaveMorris: Yes.
 * Fujitsu notes that Janitor hopefully won't be properly turned on for a while yeet.
<mpt> persia, perhaps it should be a needs-work tag
<persia> mpt: Doesn't show in the subscribed queue listing, so not very useful.
<Hobbsee> ew, tags.
<Fujitsu> I don't like the idea of using tags to store status data, really.
<mpt> ergh
<DaveMorris> you reviewed my libserial package and mentioned the manpages.  I've looked for how to fix them since you 1st brought it to my attention at the start of Dec, but I don't know how to fix them.  What should I do about it?
 * Fujitsu likes the idea of having customisable bug listings.
<Hobbsee> can we do tags when reporting the bug now?
<LucidFox> persia> Looking into it
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: On the advanced form one can.
<Hobbsee> and whenever we're adding comments, etc?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No.
<Hobbsee> damn.
<persia> Hobbsee: On the "complicated" bug form (which isn't, really)
<Hobbsee> then tags are not suitable.
<Hobbsee> (for my use, anyway, which tries to avoid YALPLP as much as possible)
<mpt> Fujitsu, there is no field in Launchpad for storing this particular data. That's what tags are for, storing data that doesn't have its own field.
<mpt> "this particular datum", I mean
<persia> mpt: yes, but tags aren't visible except on the bug page, which makes them useless when tracking lists.
<persia> Further, it's not easy to find a set of tagged patches subscribed to a team (although subscription isn't necessarily the best means of requesting sponsorship).
<mpt> Yes, we don't have flexible advanced search
<mpt> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?tag:needs-work+subscribed:ubuntu-motu
<mpt> One day that URL will work :-)
 * Fujitsu dreams of a `Request sponsorship' button which will add a new sort-of-task to the bug and notify the nominated sponsorship team.
<persia> mpt: Even with flexible advanced search, the tags don't show in the default list, which makes it hard to know if information is being presented when tags are used (and there isn't an ~ubuntu-motu, it's just ~motu)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: would be ubuntu-specific, and have to differentiate between main and universe.  won't happen.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Do other projects not have a sponsorship workflow?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: actually, would diversify more than that, with the new seed-based stuff.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: sure, but theirs would be different to yours
<persia> Hobbsee: Not necessarily.  Could be "request sponsor for this task", and use the task definition to determine the sponsoring team.
<Hobbsee> and likely not more than 1.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, "ubuntu main"  "ubuntu-universe", and a dropdown list of all the other sponsorship groups, from all projects.
<persia> That way people submitting patches to other projects (when they don't have commit access) could use the same feature.
<persia> Hobbsee: No.  Detect based on the project against which the task is created.  main/universe is maybe a little tricky, but otherwise it's not hard at all.
<Hobbsee> of course, the less braindead solution would be to create groups of sponsorships per-project, and let the user select from them.
<Fujitsu> persia: LP already differentiates main/universe for nominations.
<mpt> persia, would "it['s] hard to know if information is being presented when tags are used" be fixed if bug 28697 was fixed? Or are you referring to something else?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 28697 in malone "Bug lists should show current search filter" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28697
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: only because multiple teams exist, and they use subscribed.
<Hobbsee> persia: hmm.  yes, i think that's what i said second.  more or less
<LucidFox> persia> Works for me.
<persia> mpt: No.  I look at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+bugs every day.  The "Status" field tells me which bugs deserve attention, and which bugs should be ignored (or deferred, and the subscriber chastened).  I don't see tags.
<LucidFox> Meaning, I followed exactly the procedures on the interdiff wiki page - combinediff followed by filterdiff
<LucidFox> and was able to do get-orig-source
<persia> LucidFox: I created the new diff.gz files, extracted debian/, set execute permissions for debian/rules and debian/scan-version, and make the call.  Did I miss anything?
<LucidFox> no, you didn't
<Hobbsee> what's rharding's new nick, now?
 * persia tries again
<Hobbsee> seenserv is being unhelpful
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<LucidFox> persia> maybe you used the wrong file for combinediff and/or filterdiff? It seems to me that somehow, the new files contain both the old and new revisions concatenated
<Hobbsee> mpt: how do i file a bug against a package in someone's ppa?
<Hobbsee> rick_h_: ping
<mpt> Hobbsee, ooooooh
<mpt> excellent question
<RAOF> Hobbsee: What, you can do that?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i don't think so
<RAOF> Yeah, neither do I.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: but i've found the right irc nick, so i can whinge that way
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You file it in Ubuntu.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: That'd be about his Do packaging?
<Hobbsee> mpt: the previous case has been "email one of the ubuntu ML's, due to YALPB, which has now been solved"
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yes
<persia> LucidFox: The "full interdiff" contains all of the old diff.gz and all of the new diff.gz.  I've become convinced that only the new diff.gz is interesting, but was overridden in the last MOTU Meeting.  Blame Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i hate you.
<Fujitsu> Particularly on SourcePackageNames that have never existed in Ubuntu.
<mpt> Fujitsu, where it should be marked invalid because the bug isn't present in the Ubuntu package
<rick_h_> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: but yes, i agree with you
<Hobbsee> rick_h_: please update your gnome-do for the new mono :)
<RAOF> Oh, it's broken?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: actually, you bitch about the fact that ti hasnt' already been fixed, on an ubuntu mailing list.
<Fujitsu> Ah yes, that too.
<LucidFox> here are the commands that I executed:
<LucidFox> combinediff -z gtk2-engines-qtcurve_0.55.1-0ubuntu1.interdiff gtk2-engines-qtcurve_0.52.3-1.diff.gz > test.diff
<LucidFox> filterdiff -i 'gtk2-engines-qtcurve-0.55.1/debian/*' test.diff | patch -p0
<rick_h_> Hobbsee: ah, hardy update the mono? Sorry been afk over the holidays
<Hobbsee> rick_h_: yup.  looks like it's just gone uninstallable in the last few hours, so you're fine
<persia> LucidFox: I don't know how I got where I did with all three packages.  It's working now (and I don't know why).  Thanks for the extra testing.
 * Hobbsee wishes we could file bugs on people.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: Lol
<Hobbsee> or maybe smite them with big pointy sticks, via launchpad.
<joejaxx> LOL
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, i'ts not a great idea to smite the kernel people.
 * persia appreciates packaging that allows combinediff -z kde-style-qtcurve_0.55.1-0ubuntu1.interdiff kde-style-qtcurve_0.52.3-1.diff.gz | patch -p0
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: you could file regression bug reports
<joejaxx> persia: :)
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: yeah, true
<joejaxx> i had another packaging question but i forgot what it was now
<joejaxx> oh
<Hobbsee> persia: i just don't see the point of all this newfangled behavoir, when i'm not convinced it's easier than the old lot
<joejaxx> wait nevermind just forgot again
<zul> Hobbsee: yeah because kernel people have longer and pointerey sticks than you do
<Hobbsee> zul: no, because i appreciate having a working kernel.  if it builds in the first place.
<mpt> Ah, Pointerey. Just south of Monterey.
<joejaxx> mpt: :P
<persia> Hobbsee: interdiff is twice as big as diff.gz.  When you suggested it to me in Dapper, I agreed it was a good way to show differences.  Now I'm having second thoughts, as I think it's easier to sponsor a diff.gz.
<Hobbsee> i suggested it?
<joejaxx> persia: did you always have the nick persia ?
<joejaxx> :D
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  When I wanted to update libjsw :)
<persia> joejaxx: Only since 1987
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Hobbsee> persia: dapper was a long time ago
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes.  That's why I thought it was time for a change.
<joejaxx> persia: :P
<Hobbsee> :)
 * persia summons sdrik
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<ChrisGibbs> Gday all as well
<Vorian> aloha
<Kmos> Hobbsee: so.. start it
 * broonie grumbles at #74135
<Hobbsee> Kmos: so, why did you upload something you knew to be broken?
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/KmosReport
<Hobbsee> requested others test a broken patch in #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-devel prior to self testing. Agreed to test and try to fix. Further discussion on #ubuntu-motu indicated an upload to PPA with the expectation that the build would fail. The build didn't fail, but luckily the buildd crashing bug was not exposed. Channel discussion requesting justification for this was incomplete, due to external scheduling. Further investigation and testing
<Hobbsee> planned. See #ubuntu-motu log for 28th December 13:00 - 14:00 UTC for full transcript of further discussion.
<Hobbsee> for reference ^
<Kmos> :)
<persia> bug #74135
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 74135 in runit "runsvdir does not use upstart" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74135
<Kmos> "but luckily the buildd crashing bug was not exposed", I know the same bug wasn't exposed, but I tested it first in pbuilder..
<Kmos> and I test it in PPA, but chroot or pbuilder isn't the same.. for some FTBFS for example, it builds fine in pbuilder and not in PPA or buildd
<Kmos> *because
<Kmos> for example.. libpam-ruby is FTBFS and it builds fine here in my pbuilder (updated)
<Kmos> it's a problem specific with buildd options, so that's I sometimes upload to PPA
<Fujitsu> Kmos: Right, but buildd FTBFSes are basically a superset of pbuilder FTBFSes, except in some very odd circumstances.
<Fujitsu> (like this one)
<Kmos> Fujitsu: i've a lot of them here..
<Kmos> libpod-constants-perl
<Kmos> another one
<Fujitsu> Kmos: That fails in pbuilder, but works on the Launchpad buildds?
<Kmos> Fujitsu: nop.. works in pbuilder, and fails in launchpad buildds
<persia> Kmos: You might try downloading a buildd chroot, and using it with sbuild.  it won't match perfectly, but it will be closer to the buildds.
<Fujitsu> Hence a superset.
<mpt> persia, Fujitsu, ok, reported bug 179857
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179857 in malone "Package sponsorships involve awkward bugtracker machinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179857
<persia> mpt: Thanks.
<mpt> Fujitsu, now, tell me what you meant by "But then there's the larger problem of latency on a scale that only Launchpad seems to be able to manage. That makes proper navigation impractical."
<persia> mpt: Likely deserves a spec though, no?
<Kmos> persia: that will help.. i need to download the debootstrap for hardy ? or there is any other easy way to do it ?
<persia> Kmos: You could download the buildd chroot tarball (and no, I don't know where they live, but I do know they have LP librarian URLs)
<mpt> persia, probably. I reported it as a bug partly because without a pre-arranged schedule, blueprints can get forgotten
<mpt> and partly because that's what I'm used to doing
<mpt> and partly because bugs have tags (e.g. "motu") while blueprints don't
<persia> mpt: Agreed (and that's another bug, but perhaps not one for now or soon).
 * minghua contributes to the KmosReport page.
<Kmos> persia: I'll find it and install it here..
<Fujitsu> mpt: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu takes a good 15 seconds to load here. Listing of any number of objects (particularly builds) increases this waiting time somewhat. One cannot efficiently use clickish navigation with such slow page loads. Some resort to composing bug search URLs manually. It's all just too darn slow.
<Fujitsu> As well as Soyuz navigation being odd.
<mpt> Okay, so slowness is a variety of separate issues
<mpt> getting better hardware
<mpt> upgrading the DB software
<mpt> moving from HTTPS to HTTP for some pages
<mpt> having pages with less unimportant stuff on them
<Fujitsu> I find it slightly iffy that /ubuntu takes 1.2 seconds of DB query time.
<Fujitsu> Although I guess it has to trawl through bug lists.
<mpt> and gradually ratcheting down our expectation for how long a page generation should take (once we've finished fixing the actual timeout errors!)
<Fujitsu> (is it deliberate that those query stats are at the bottom of each page?)
<mpt> erm
<mpt> Where do you see that?
<Fujitsu> Bottom of the source of every page.
<Fujitsu> Ah, might just be edge.
<mpt> Oh, an HTML comment
<Fujitsu> Yes, sorry.
<mpt> That's almost certainly deliberate
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: only 15?  wow.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's only for /ubuntu.
 * Hobbsee is used to the old 50+ second load times
<Hobbsee> 29 to fully load.  yay, launchpad.
<Kmos> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<Kmos> !deboostrap
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about deboostrap - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Kmos> :(
<Fujitsu> The DB server must be under fairly light load today. A listing of 1000 builds takes a mere 13 seconds of query time, whilst it was taking >=22 over the holidays.
<Hobbsee> !debootstrap
<ubotu> debootstrap is used to create a !Debian or Ubuntu base system from scratch, without requiring the availability of !dpkg or !APT. It does this by downloading !.deb files from a mirror site, and carefully unpacking them into a directory you can eventually !chroot into.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: spell thing correctly.  it helps.
<Hobbsee> !no debootstrap is used to create a !Debian or Ubuntu base system from scratch, without requiring the availability of !dpkg or !APT. It does this by downloading !.deb files from a mirror site, and carefully unpacking them into a directory you can eventually !chroot into.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot for more information
<ubotu> I'll remember that Hobbsee
<Kmos> :-)
<DktrKranz> joejaxx, any news for bug 160257 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160257 in apt-rpm "Please merge apt-rpm 0.5.15lorg3.2-3 from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160257
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> LucidFox: Please close your bugs in your changelogs (I'll do it this time)
<bddebian> persia!!
<persia> bddebian!!
<persia> bddebian: Do you happen to have some free time, a fair bit of bandwidth, and a desire to try a new game?
<bddebian> persia: Possibly.  I'm almost done with breaking newpki-client with wx2.6 ;-)
<persia> bddebian: Is it worth it?  xca is in REVU, which would be enough to drop newpli-client (but if you're making progress, I'm impressed: that one stumped me).
<bddebian> Well I've had help :-)
<bddebian> persia: What game?
<bddebian> persia: Oh, btw, are you going to request syncs of quesoglc and warzone2100 for Ubuntu? :)
<effie_jayx> I have been reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/DebianWatch
<effie_jayx> I have a couple of questions
<persia> bddebian: urbanterror (on REVU).  Just repackaged, supposedly addressing all my review points.  You keep claiming there are no good games, but this one has lots of data, so it might be good.
<effie_jayx> when I download current version its the one in gutsy?
<bddebian> Ah yeah, I saw that and I've been meaning to check it out
<persia> Regarding syncs, I'm just finishing killing the UUS holiday bloat, and am planning a review of mdt next.  Feel free to jump ahead if you want, but I do plan to hit it soon.
<effie_jayx> another this is what determines the version number in the begining of the watch file
<persia> effie_jayx: It downloads whichever version matches the environment you download in.  I tend to run apt-get source in my chroots to get the right targets.
<persia> effie_jayx: The watch file version should be 3.  It is the syntax version for the watch file.
<effie_jayx> ok that sorts that out...
<persia> If you're downloading with a watch file, it should grab the newest version from upstream.
<bddebian> persia: OK, I'll try to get off my lazy ass eventually :)
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> persia,  the one in debian/copyright?
<persia> bddebian: lazy?  I'm seeing lots of good changes - certainly more than I've been producing lately.
<persia> effie_jayx: huh?  I don't understand your reference to debian/copyright.
<effie_jayx> persia,  there I should find where the new versio should be found...
<persia> effie_jayx: Right.  debian/copyright should give you information to construct your watch file.  Feel free to add "It was downloaded from $URL" in debian/copyright if it is missing when updating the package.
 * broonie wonders what a watch file for "the author handed me a disk in the pub" would be like. :)
<persia> hellboy195: Feel free to ask me also if you have any questions about the gmsh merge.
<hellboy195> persia: yeah thank you but bluekuja is mentoring me
<persia> broonie: Were it my package, there'd be a public mirror with the tar.gz
<persia> hellboy195: Please continue with that, it's just many of the changes were mine, so I'm offering extra help if you need.
<hellboy195> persia: ok, I'll keep that in mind. Thank you :)
<effie_jayx> persia,  you mentioned chroot to download current source. what are you using? pbuilder?
<bluekuja> hellboy195, yeah, feel free to ask to persia as well
<persia> effie_jayx: I have a collection of LVM partitions with individual chroots.  I use sbuild against snapshots of these.
<broonie> persia: doesn't seem much point if upstream isn't doing it
<bluekuja> hellboy195, he did the big part of those changes
<persia> broonie: I'd consider it a public service, and expect to get the new upstream in a pub, and publish it.  Were I lucky, someone else would feel like updating the package (but I might not be so lucky).
<broonie> What advantage does that have over the distro archive?
<bddebian> persia: I meant lazy wrt Ubuntu :'-(
<persia> broonie: Raphael doesn't file a bug that the package doesn't have a watch file :)
<persia> bddebian: D-G is Ubuntu :P
<bddebian> heh :)
<persia> bddebian: Plus, your efforts on the wx2.4 front help massively with my personal goal of not shipping for hardy.
<bddebian> Well jugglemaster doesn't help if it doesn't run :-(
<persia> bddebian: Sorry.  I got distracted by REVU & UUS.  I'll get back to that soon.
<bddebian> persia: No worries
<bddebian> persia: Ah, looks like boswars FINALLY got uploaded too
<persia> bddebian: I thought I saw a note about a missing .changes for that.  Did you ever investigate the other strategus scenarios?
<bddebian> No, not yet :-(
<persia> OK.  We can kill bos, but perhaps not strategus yet.  6 weeks left :)
<persia> But perhaps after wormux...
 * persia thwacks bddebian for not suggesting mercurial or rcs
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> I'm sorry but this "team" maintenance stuff I find to be bullshit
<persia> bddebian: Depends on the team.  I like MOTU :P
<bddebian> Aye, I meant in Debian
<bddebian> In Ubuntu you don't have the "find a DD to upload" constraint for the most part
<persia> bddebian: Yes you do.  Sometimes the sponsors queue lags as much as a month, and sometimes REVU lags for three or four.  The six-month cycle helps with that, but...
<bddebian> Aye but REVU is NEW, most of these aren't
<bddebian> And that's a resource constraint, not a "I"m better than you" constraint
<persia> bddebian: Depends on how one defines resource.  Willing sponsors are rare anywhere.
<persia> RainCT: Do we really want to keep elfsh around?
<persia> Or to put that another way, do we want to support it for five years?
<bddebian> persia: If you say so :)
<persia> bddebian: present company excluded (thank you) :)
<\sh> moins and happy new year everyone :)
<persia> happy new year \sh
<persia> RainCT: Also, I can't find a changelog for 0.123-3 :(
 * persia gives up on the bug for now...
<bddebian> persia: Well that's just it, because I've been doing all this games-team shit and some qa stuff I haven't been sponsoring shit in Ubuntu :-(
<persia> bddebian: No problem.  You've been doing the stuff on my list, and I've been doing the stuff on yours :)
<bddebian> :)
<DaveMorris> persia: I've updated my libserial package (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial) but I don't know what to do about the man page problem
<persia> DaveMorris: The changelogs are dropped due to an annoyance with CDBS.  You need to define DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL.  I'm less certain about the manpages, looking now...
<DaveMorris> persia: I have the changelog in my packages, as changelog.gz
<persia> DaveMorris: Really?  I didn't when I built the last version.  Hmm...
 * DaveMorris is looking in libserial0
<DaveMorris> the -dev package doesn't have 1 as it symblinks the dir to libserial0
<persia> Which would be correct.  Rebuilding the latest, and rechecking.
<persia> DaveMorris: My hardy sbuild doesn't include ./usr/share/doc/libserial0/changelog.gz in the generated package.  For the manpages, I'm guessing there might be a doxygen bug.
<DaveMorris> persia: oh, my mistake I'm building on gutsy
<DaveMorris> regression bug
<persia> DaveMorris: That can lead to all sorts of confusions :)
<DaveMorris> yeah sorry.  I'll fix it then, what did you say the fix was?  DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL := Changelog
<persia> DaveMorris: something like that ought work.  A better fix would be for someone to migrate the changelog suppression code out of CDBS and into the packages with huge changelogs causing issues for the CDs, but that won't happen soon.
 * Hobbsee looks for a wrong build deps bug.
<Hobbsee> or an unmetdeps
<persia> Hobbsee: Do you want a bug, or something to fix?
<Hobbsee> persia: i want something to fix, that i can mentor someone on.
<Hobbsee> (it needs to be relatively simple)
<Hobbsee> build-dep change would be great
<persia> Hobbsee: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ has all the unmetdeps, updated frequently.
<Hobbsee> hum, NBS might work, then
<persia> http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/NBS/ might be interesting for that (still WIP)
 * awen_ wonders if the "problem" with cdbs/changelog is an ubuntu-only? seems to work fine when building for sid
<persia> awen_: Yes.
<awen_> thx
<persia> Hobbsee: specifically the 5 packages listed near the top are good candidates for someone to play.
<Hobbsee> okay, found one
<DktrKranz> persia, I found Debian Maintainers very interested in that, a good coordination with them could lead to easier fixes.
<persia> DaveMorris: Looking at your source and the Doxygen manual, I think you get a pass on that.  Be sure to leave a comment explaining why lexgrog can't handle your manpages so that the next reviewer doesn't reject for it.
<DaveMorris> ok thanks
<persia> DktrKranz: Debian transitions are traditionally painful.  Scripts to make status tracking easier would definitely make people happy.  Purely selfishly, gettting that finished so we can publish on qa.ubuntuwire.com would be a nice way to help be sure we fix them all before release.
 * persia is stuck, and encourages others to try to tackle some of the bugs in the sponsor queue.
<effie_jayx> when doing a watch file. if it is a ubuntu-specific package the process is different from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/DebianWatch...
 * \sh works on wine 0.9.52...starting over from last years try
<effie_jayx> well I gotta split
<effie_jayx> today I did lots of ground reading
<effie_jayx> this afternood I might get some more done...
<effie_jayx> thanks persia ...
<DktrKranz> persia, of course. Main structure is already present, it needs some graphical improvements (and someone who can provide suggestions on how to do them) and a couple of bugfixes (e.g.  libflickrnet, recently promoted but listed in universe)
<persia> DktrKranz: I can whine about it if you like, but I'm not capable of fixing the issues I'd raise.
<DktrKranz> I'm after your previous suggestions, some of them are trivial, others will require more work (and others additional love from canonical, but that's another point).
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'm trying to address everyone's needs to have something really useful for everyone
<RainCT> persia: About elfsh, I don't even know what it is... :P.
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.  Let me know when you want another critique.  Regarding serving everyone, if you find a way to collect it straight from the Packages.gz or a local archive, that would be a win.
<persia> RainCT: OK.  You seem to be the handler for bug #92949, and based on your statement that it would be removed from Debian soon, I wonder if it is useful for hardy.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92949 in elfsh "[can-not-install] file overwrite error" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92949
<DktrKranz> persia, it shouldn't be too hard to collect a list of NBS from {Sources,Packages}.gz, but I fear this method will miss packages who FTBFS. I really don't know if rene is smart enough to address this point, though.
<persia> DktrKranz: Ah.  Right.  Maybe the binaries can be dug out of Sources.gz?
<RainCT> persia: I really don't know... :(
<RainCT> persia: (the maintainer's statement about a replacement is here, btw: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=449356)
<ubotu> Debian bug 449356 in elfsh "elfsh: should this package be orphaned?" [Serious,Open]
<persia> RainCT: OK.  Someone else might upload the patch, or investigate and ask for package removal.  I'm about done for the day now, but I'll look harder next time.
<DktrKranz> persia, Sources.gz will list every binary, even if a given package would FTBFS, but I think ports haven't Sources.gz, nor on archive.u.c nor on ports.u.c
<persia> DktrKranz: Maybe I don't understand.  I thought that packages shouldn't be considered for NBS due to FTBFS.  Also, there's only one Sources.gz, which applies for all architectures (or should).
<persia> RainCT: Hmmm..  Sounds to me like elfsh should be removed, and a needs-packaging bug created for eresi, linked to the ITP.
<DktrKranz> persia, yes. I confused a couple of things (probably due to new-year party madness). I'll work on it now.
<persia> DktrKranz: heh.  Good luck.
<LucidFox> persia> Thanks for uploading!
<LucidFox> Looks like chroot problems still persist on sparc and powerpc.
<persia> LucidFox: Next time, please be more careful about closing the bugs and targeting the development repos :)
<LucidFox> All right.
<Vorian> I have a watchfile syntax question :)
<Vorian> if the watch should check this : http://releases.vendor.org/current.version.number/software-(.*).tar.gz
<awen_> LucidFox: my builds failed on sparc and powerpc, so looks like the chroot problem hasn't been fixed on those two platforms
<Vorian> what is the syntax for the current.version.number ?
<RainCT> Vorian: (?:.*) should do it
 * Vorian checks
 * RainCT wonders what awen_ is talking about, as he also got two sparc and powerpc build failures
<hellboy195> persia: ping
<awen_> RainCT: don't we agree that powerpc and sparc builds all fail with a chroot problem atm?
<geser> RainCT: sparc and powerpc have a broken chroot and are waiting for infinity to fix them
 * persia dislikes virtual table tennis, but tends to be answer questions
<man-di> Vorian: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-java/trunk/eclipse/debian/watch?rev=5243&view=markup might be an example for you
<Vorian> ah!
<Vorian> R-
<hellboy195> persia: ^^ sry. I have to edit the gmsh.install. can I use the old 2ubuntu2 one? but there the first 2 lines with (bin/gmsh /usr/bin
<hellboy195> doc/gmsh.1 /usr/share/man/man1 ) were deleted
<RainCT> persia: needs-packaging bug filled; I'll look later how to request a deletion. Thanks.
<persia> hellboy195: At a quick glance, it looks like those are now included by passing --mandir=\$${prefix}/share/man in debian/rules, but I could be mistaken.  Try the new one, and see if the manpages get included in the binary package.
<hellboy195> persia: k, thx
<persia> RainCT: It's just a bug with a Rationale.  Subscribe the sponsors as usual.
<hellboy195> persia: another question. In the 2ubuntu2 package there is a .xpm for the menu which is missing in debian but isn't it written in the docs that there should also be a png?
<persia> hellboy195: Generally a .png looks nicer, but the debian/menu format only works with .xpm, so the .xpm is the minimum requirement.  I tend to be lazy when creating icons, and only do the .xpm.  If you have a nicer .png, please add it.
<hellboy195> persia: well in the docs is written to convert the xpm to a .png ^^ but your THE packaging geek so I take the .smp :P
<hellboy195> *xmp
<hellboy195> *xpm xD
<persia> hellboy195: Which doc?  Where?
<persia> hellboy195: Also, I'm not the best at packaging: I tend to do small fixes.  I have a lot of opinions, but that's different :)
<hellboy195> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles  <-- but you're right a missread something with .icons and .xpms ...  well I'm as long here to see that you are a great MOTU ;)
<RainCT> persia: Oh, ok. Done (bug #179889).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179889 in elfsh "Please remove elfsh from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179889
<persia> RainCT: Great.  When 179888 gets done, we can push 179889 to the archive admins.  Thanks.
<DaveMorris> Can someone please review my package - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<geser> RainCT: I guess it hasn't any rdepends or rbuilddepends but could you check and state it in the bug?
<RainCT> geser: I checked :). forgot to say it
<hellboy195> persia: At the moment I'm writing my changelog entry. is the version number now 2.0.8-2ubuntu3 ?
<persia> hellboy195: No.  It would be 2.0.8-4ubuntu1 (the first Ubuntu revision to the fourth Debian revision of 2.0.8)
<Vorian> RainCT: that does not seem to work, I tried a couple of variations in addition
<RainCT> geser: (well, I checked for rdepends, don't know how to look for r build dependencies)
<persia> RainCT: grep-dctrl can help.
<hellboy195> persia: ah right :) thx
<RainCT> Vorian: it seems releases.vendor.org isn't browseable
<persia> RainCT: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/checkrdepends may also be useful (I haven't tried it, I'm just finding URLs)
<Vorian> RainCT: I was giving an example
<Vorian> vendor as in software vendor
<Vorian> :)
<awen_> persia: as a follow-up to Bug 145574 ... the libapache2-mod-rpaf currently in hardy is build from another source than libapache-mod-rpaf
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145574 in libapache-mod-rpaf "[UNMETDEPS] libapache-mod-rpaf - removal request" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145574
<geser> do I remember correctly that package in the clean rule in debian/rules should be listed in build-depends instead of build-depends-indep?
<persia> awen_: There are two sources that both build libapache2-mod-rpaf?
<persia> geser: Yes.
<Vorian> RainCT: I am trying to include watchfiles from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php
<awen_> persia: yes... libapache-mod-rpaf_0.5-2.1 and libapache2-mod-rpaf_0.5-3
<Vorian> first on the list is CCSM
<persia> awen_: That's just plain wrong.  Thanks for the correction: I'll go update my comment.
<RainCT> Vorian: ah ok. what is the real URL then?
<RainCT> :P
<geser> RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/3207/ that's the script I found once on the internet and use to check for rbuilddepends
<Vorian> RainCT: http://releases.compiz-fusion.org/
<awen_> persia: you're welcome... but looks like it's someone in debian that messed it up :)
<Vorian> geser: sorry for the mistake yesterday
<persia> awen_: Submitted. There are over 100 bugs in the archive-admin queue just now, so it might be a while...
<RainCT> geser, persia: thanks :)
<awen_> persia: thanks... that's a lot; lucily there is still some time before hardy is arriving ;)
<RainCT> Vorian: perhaps you could use the page were the download URL is then
<Vorian> RainCT: http://releases.compiz-fusion.org/0.6.0/ccsm-0.6.0.tar.gz the bolded version number is where I am having trouble
<Vorian> oops which is
<Vorian> http://releases.compiz-fusion.org/0.6.0/ccsm-0.6.0.tar.gz
<Vorian> pfft
<RainCT> Vorian: IRC doesn't support formatting afaik
<Vorian> kk
<ion_> It supports bold, inverse and underline. There are also mIRC colors, which are evil.
<Vorian> yeah, not if the chan is mode +c
<persia> Depends on the client.  bold, inverse, and underline can be disabled.  overstrike can also be enabled through unicode.
 * RainCT thinks plain text is sooo nice :P
<Vorian> how about this
<Vorian> http://releases.compiz-fusion.org/*THIS PART* -> 0.6.0 <- *END* /ccsm-0.6.0.tar.gz
<Vorian> :P
<persia> Vorian: [\d\.*]
 * Vorian checks :)
<persia> Err... [\d\.]*
<Vorian> hmm
<Vorian> *should* it look like this?
<Vorian> http://releases.compiz-fusion.org/[\d\.]*/ccsm-(.*).tar.gz
<bddebian> ccsm-[\d.]+\.tar\.gz
<persia> hellboy195: Your new debian/menu doesn't include the icon.  How did you generate this debdiff?
<geser> persia: doesn't lose . it's special meaning inside []?
<persia> geser: I don't believe so (at least in perl).  I've seen strange behaviour with missing \ insider
<persia> s/r$//
<hellboy195> persia: hmm it should. debdiff gmsh_2.0.8-4ubuntu1.dsc gmsh_2.0.8-4.dsc > gmsh_2.0.8-4ubuntu1.debdiff
<DktrKranz> geser, that way, "." characted can be in every position, without it only at the end.
<ion_> . shouldnât be escaped inside []
<persia> hellboy195: Ah.  You want it the other way.  debdiff old new > review-submission.
<hellboy195> persia: so. new debdiff?
<persia> hellboy195: Yep.  Also, looks like you've a formatting confusion in the changelog.  Might want to look a the current debdiff, and see if you can make it smaller.
<persia> hellboy195: Further, the changelog isn't in version order :(
<hellboy195> persia: ah. sry. I'll fix that
<persia> hellboy195: No worries.  Thanks for helping :)
<hellboy195> persia: np, in the far and now more far away future I also want to be a motu :)
<hellboy195> persia: any advice for me how I can make the debdiff smaller?
<persia> hellboy195: Visually inspect the debdiff.  If you see any lines that you didn't think you changed with a + and - (but apparently the same), hunt for whitespace differences, and patch the new candidate to more closely match the source.
<hellboy195> persia: I'll make a try. :)
<hellboy195> persia: are there also a lot of whitespace differences besides the changelog?
<persia> hellboy195: I didn't see any, but I only took a quick glance.
<hellboy195> persia: ok. I'll look at it carefully and when I'm ready I upload it and ping you
<persia> hellboy195: You'd do better to subscribe the sponsors, as I'll likely be asleep (I'm rarely around at this hour).
<hellboy195> persia: k, normally bluekuja should also be back. Good Night and thank you very much for you help :)
<persia> hellboy195: Thanks for persisting my changes :)
<persia> Anyone know Wouter Stomp's nick?
<chazco> Can anyone explain the correct way to have a .deb create a mimetype, which will work in both Kubuntu and Gnome?
 * broonie wonders about the stream of "removed in Ubuntu" messages for apache stuff hitting the Debian BTS.
<persia> broonie: Could you pass an example?
<broonie> Ã429102
<persia> Debian bug #429102
<ubotu> Debian bug 429102 in libapache-mod-auth-useragent "please update/request removal of your package" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/429102
<tuxmaniac> new year greetings all!
<broonie> It looks entirely sensible to remove the packages, it's mostly just the subject line that raised an eyebrow
<persia> awen_: You might want to be more focused on Debian when reporting things to the BTS.  Especially so before the archive-admins have made a determination.
<persia> broonie: The more so when it's not yet the case.
<tuxmaniac> can someone please check whether the uploaded revu package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=alliance builds on hardy pbuilder? It seems to be ok with a clean gutsy pbuilder base.
<nxvl_work> Ng: ping
<tuxmaniac> its a new package and I would like to push it into hardy if I can still do that
<persia> tuxmaniac: consider updating your pbuilder (or creating a second chroot tarball)
<persia> And yes, FeatureFreeze for hardy isn't for another six weeks, so there's about four more weeks to get through REVU.
<tuxmaniac> persia, I would have done that. But I am from a remote part of the world, who are cursed with speeds not more than 256 Kbps
<persia> tuxmaniac: Ah.  That makes it harder then :(
<tuxmaniac> so it would take pretty long time to do that. thats why thought I will get some help from people around
<broonie> .oO(...when I were a lad...)Oo.
<tuxmaniac> persia, not that I am not willing to do that. But.. you know the frustration of sudo pbuilder create on such low speed internet
<tuxmaniac> :D
<persia> broonie: In those days, you didn't reload significant portions of the archive for build-depends repeatedly daily :P
<persia> tuxmaniac: I can imagine
<awen_> persia: i thought the ubuntu-sponsors had the final word there... but if that isn't the case, I see your point
<DktrKranz> tuxmaniac, it's not a problem for me? how long does it takes?
<SnackPack> so what's the best way to post a merge for sponsorship?
<broonie> persia: Well, actually I just did the downloads via cron while I was asleep/out and didn't really care how long theyt took :P
<tuxmaniac> DktrKranz, it downloads around 300 MB of stuff on a gutsy pbuilder base
<persia> SnackPack: Prep a merge.  subscribe the sponsors.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<broonie> Providing it was less than ~7 hours
<DktrKranz> tuxmaniac, I'll do right now. I'll point you to the log
 * tuxmaniac wishes DktrKranz a very happy new year 2008 :D
<DktrKranz> :)
<persia> broonie: For pbuilder?  Way back, I used local builds so I didn't have to redownload the build-depends every time (but you may be different).
<SnackPack> persia: thanks... kinda hard to keep up with all these wiki links.  :P
<chazco> Can anyone explain the correct way to have a .deb create a mimetype, which will work in both Kubuntu and Gnome?
<persia> DktrKranz: I've a build in progress...
<DktrKranz> persia, ah... I'm going to stop it
<broonie> persia: pbuilder has always cached the downloaded archives (it was me who got dancer to fix the fact that it used to only do that when the full download completed).
<SnackPack> persia: just to verify, submit a debdiff from the *debian* version?
 * persia bows to broonie's experience
<broonie> which was a tiny bit annoying when your connection kept on flaking out every 'once in a while' and you were trying to build the initial chroot.
<geser> tuxmaniac: why does it need gcc-4.1 for building? doesn't it build with gcc-4.2?
<persia> SnackPack: generally for a merge, that's best.  Sometimes the tarballs differ, and you have to submit against ubuntu.  Be sure to mention if it's not debian against which you pull the debdiff.
<tuxmaniac> geser, i will check
<SnackPack> persia: ok, them my diff will just carry previous -ubuntu changes against the latest debian version
 * SnackPack prepares
<persia> SnackPack: Also, we've passed DIF, so be sure to mention why the package should be merged - it should provide a good feature, or fix a useful bug, or otherwise improve integration in hardy.
<tuxmaniac> geser, it should build with gcc4.2 as well
<persia> tuxmaniac: How long should this take?
<SnackPack> persia: this is a random package I chose from merges.ubuntu.com
<tuxmaniac> persia, its big! downlaods quite a lot of stuff. it contains the entire tool set for chip design engineers
<persia> SnackPack: That's likely not ideal then.  We've passed the point where random package updates are helpful.
<geser> tuxmaniac: while you update the build-dependencies please also replace the tetex packages with texlive. btw: please also fix the version: it should be -0ubuntu1
<tuxmaniac> geser, hmm. points noted
<SnackPack> hmm
<SnackPack> I did one of the beginners tasks, the dontzap one
<SnackPack> how do I know for sure wether or not to even attempt to fix a bug?
<geser> tuxmaniac: it would be nice if you could also fix the many "implicit declarations" during build (especially the incompatible ones). Perhaps upstream can help you with it.
<persia> SnackPack: If it's a bug, it would be good to fix it.  It's just that we're not looking to pull all the new upstream versions, change to patch systems, etc. from Debian at this point, but really focus on bugs.
<tuxmaniac> geser, I am already contacting the upstream folks with respect to that.
<persia> tuxmaniac: build failed.
<tuxmaniac> persia, same as what bddebian has put?
<persia> Yep.
<tuxmaniac> hmm.
<SnackPack> persia: the reason I ask is I already did the dontzap bug, #90434, but it was rejected due to "If we end up using dontzap by default..."
<SnackPack> recorded as not needing to be fixed
<persia> bug #90434
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 90434 in xorg-server "please enable dontzap by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/90434
<persia> SnackPack: You'll find it easier to get patches for bugs against packages in universe accepted.  X is fairly critical, so the maintenance team is fairly conservative.
<tsmithe> persia, nixternal; i've uploaded a new version of mscore which should address (most of) your problems. those that haven't been addressed (eg the xpm icon) will be fixed upstream next release. thanks.
<persia> tsmithe: Any timeline on next upstream?  Maybe we can pull a couple things from CVS into debian/ ?
 * SnackPack won't refer to the beginners task list anymore
<persia> SnackPack: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/WeeklyTODO might be good places to try.
<tsmithe> persia, not yet, and nothing wanting from cvs, either
<persia> tsmithe: OK.  I likely won't get to it until Monday, but someone else might hit it first.
<tsmithe> what things did you have in mind, persia - just the icon?
<persia> tsmithe: From CVS?  Any of "those that haven't been addressed..." that might have been available.  If that isn't anything yet, we can always patch later.
<persia> I just doubt a new upstream release before Feature Freeze, so think we should track to make sure it's in best shape for release.
<geser> tuxmaniac: your package uses the default compiler (in hardy is it gcc-4.2) even if you list gcc-4.1 in build-depends
<tsmithe> persia, i think the only thing not being addressed, having a check back on revu, was the icon
<tuxmaniac> geser, oh
<tsmithe> and there is an icon provided for the desktop file spec, in any case, which gnome and kde and xfce all use, so the major user base is covered
<persia> tsmithe: fluxbox will be broken.  Everything else should be fine.
<tuxmaniac> geser, actually it isnt my package but a package that I am dead interested in and helping the uploader sort out things with Ubuntu/Debian which he is not so familair with. I am already making some changes inthe package. Thanks a lot for your support.
 * persia notes that powerpc & sparc should be rebuilding soon.  From now, FTBFS mails on those architectures actually mean something again
<tsmithe> persia, is it possible to include binary files in debian/? (seeing as it is distributed as a diff..) if so, i could whip up an icon temporarily.
<tuxmaniac> geser, please give in your valuable feedback as and when you find. it would help in the process
<persia> tsmithe: XPM is ascii :)
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> haha i will do that, then!
<\sh> if someone has time ... wine 0.9.52 is ready for upload to universe http://www.sourcecode.de/~shermann/wine/0.9.52/
<tsmithe> persia, nixternal, apachelogger; the current upload of mscore <http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1139> now has the xpm icon, with no further issues outstanding.
<chazco> Hi... i've been told here is my best bet to ask... I'm creating a .deb which needs to set up a new mime time (application/tmd.textmaker, based on the extension .tmd). I made a .deb manually which works on Ubuntu, but not on Kubuntu... can anyone point me in the right direction for getting it to work on both from one .deb (its not going to be part of the repos... or at least not yet)
<mruiz> persia, thanks for your upload (bug 178869). Should I request the backport to gutsy ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178869 in gnome-voice-control "[FTBFS] gnome-voice-control due to automake-1.9 build-dep" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178869
<LaserJock> chazco: I'm not sure of the specific answer,  but you might try to find a KDE package that would have mime types and see how they do it
<chazco> LaserJock - yep, i've looked at kaffeine (which creates a .kaffeine based mime-type)... i think I see how it works, but was hoping to find if there is a better all-in-one style solution
<chazco> Gnome uses the mime xml files... but KDE seems to use an additional .desktop file
<LaserJock> chazco: yeah, you'll probably have to do both
<chazco> Ok... just seems like an overly complicated way of doing it... thanks :)
<LaserJock> chazco: heh, welcome to open source :-)
<chazco> Getting used to it :) I'm new to this so I'm not 100% sure of the accepted ways to do things
<zul> happy new year LaserJock
<LaserJock> same to you zul
<Vorian> \o/
<Vorian> found a package i could create a watch file for!
<LaserJock> Vorian: awesome ;-)
<Vorian> LaserJock: this is fun :)
<Vorian> LaserJock: I should have started doing this a long time ago :)
<Vorian> the package also needs updating it seems ....
<mruiz> is it correct to fill a bug if a package doesn't have a watch file?
<Vorian> mruiz: they are mostly here http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php
<LaserJock> mruiz: persia's on a watch file crusade to make sure that at least all packages in Ubuntu but not in Debian have watch files
<Ubulette> question about copyrights: if I reuse a gif from http://www.google.com/intl/en/options/, and convert it to PNG for a prism webapp, what should I say for the copyright ?
<Vorian> \o/ it builds in hardy
<Ubulette> is this acceptable: "prism-google-maps.png has been converted to PNG from http://www.google.com/options/icons/maps.gif and is then (c)2007 Google"
<Ubulette> ?
<LaserJock> Ubulette: yikes I'm not sure
<LaserJock> I'm unsure you are allowed to use that icon
<mruiz> Vorian, I was looking there... my question is if I need to fill a bug
<Ubulette> LaserJock, well, the webapp will point to google maps so it's not a reuse for something else
<LaserJock> Ubulette: right, but without a license you don't really have to right to take it
<LaserJock> you could probably shoot google an email and ask
<Vorian> mruiz: I would think so, in order to get a sponsor to upload it
<mruiz> ;-)
<Vorian> :)
<Ubulette> LaserJock, hmm, prism already ships gmail, greader and other google icons. the prism package is triple licenced GPLv2, LGPLv2.1 and MPL 1.1. I'm not sure mozilla obtained those under a clear license either.
<Ubulette> I could file a bug against prism to ask
<ion_> Also the facepoop package seems to contain an icon without licensing information.
<LaserJock> anybody having problems updating Hardy pbuilders?
<LaserJock> I'm getting: E: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on libstdc++6
<Kmos> LaserJock: your mirror is updated ? =)
<LaserJock> Kmos: should be fairly yes
<slangasek> LaserJock: mvo is working on fixing an apt bug
<LaserJock> slangasek: oh, ok
<slangasek> says on #ubuntu-devel that the ETA is "tomorrow"
<geser> LaserJock: apt-get update libc6 tzdata
<man-di> LaserJock: I had the same problem today
<geser> LaserJock: and proceed as usual
<man-di> LaserJock: workaround was dpkg -i libstdc++6 and gcc-4.2-base manually
<geser> LaserJock: s/update/install/
<LaserJock> I can wait if it's gonna be fixed by "tomorrow"
<geser> LaserJock: and how do you want to install the fixed apt?
<LaserJock> geser: I don't know, I assume that tomorrow I can update it alright
<LaserJock> or did it really get screwed up
<geser> you will need to install the fixed apt first
<LaserJock> oh really?
<man-di> LaserJock: dpkg -i .. as I said above helps
<geser> apt-get install libc6 tzdata helps too
<LaserJock> right, but I assumed that the fix would "fix" it without taking manual intervention
<geser> with the new apt this bug would get fixed but you need to have the new apt installed first
<geser> how else do you want to benefit from the bug fix?
<LaserJock> well, it depends on the type of bug
<LaserJock> what I was saying was that I assumed a dist-upgrade would work to fix it when the fix is released
<geser> the problem is that apt doesn't generate the ordering right for the current update
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I didn't know what the problem was
<LaserJock> so I assumed it would fix itself
<geser> the fixed apt will get build against the libs which you try to upgrade now and fail due to an apt bug
<geser> you will probably need to fix it manually now
<LaserJock> right
<cyberix> Is it guaranteed that something will some day happen to patches that are ins sponsors queu?
<cyberix> Or should I e.g. be active in some way?
<LaserJock> they should be mostly processed within a day or two normally
<LaserJock> ok, well now my pbuilder is really messed up
<geser> pbuilder login --save-after-login and upgrade it manually
<LaserJock> man-di: all you did was ibstdc++6 and gcc-4.2-base?
<LaserJock> geser: that's what I'm trying to do, it wants to remove like everything
<nenolod> hi
<man-di> LaserJock: yes, and after that a normal aptitude upgrade
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I wonder if I installed the wrong version of libstdc++6 and gcc-4.2-base
<man-di> LaserJock: I just installed the newest ones from /var/cache/apt/archives
<LaserJock> hmm, that's what I did
<cyberix> Something wrong with the report? -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pq/+bug/176645
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176645 in pq "improve package description" [Low,Confirmed]
<LaserJock> man-di: now I get several: cpp-4.2: Depends: gcc-4.2-base (= 4.2.2-4ubuntu2) but 4.2.2-4ubuntu3 is installed
<man-di> 4.2.2-4ubuntu3 is my version too
<man-di> LaserJock: then install cpp-4.2 4.2.2-4ubuntu3 too
<man-di> all at once
<geser> LaserJock: I upgraded my notebook two hours ago and ran into the same problem and could fix it with apt-get install libc6 tzdata
<man-di> geser: hm. for me apt-get wasnt able to do any install
<LaserJock> geser: yeah, I was a bit too messed up to get apt-get to work
<LaserJock> got it now though
<LaserJock> just had to dpkg the whole lot of gcc stuff
<LaserJock> cyberix: no, nothing wrong with it
<LaserJock> although I wonder if the status is right
<LaserJock> geser: I'll try your way on my Main pbuilder as I haven't done anything with it yet
<geser> man-di: I had to upgrade the two packages with apt before I could update the remaining packages
<man-di> geser: me too, just two different ones, interesting
<LaserJock> geser: yep, that worked for me
<`Matir> I'm looking to help out the MOTUs.  I've read the Contributing doc on the wiki but was wondering if there is a preferred way for new people to help out/get started.
<nenolod> `Matir, make/fix packages
<LaserJock> `Matir: well, there's so many ways it's a bit hard to give a specific answer
<LaserJock> but generally, as nenolod say, fixing existing packages and creating new ones are common
<`Matir> So just look at bug reports for ones that are reasonable to fix?
<LaserJock> that's definitely a good place to start
<LaserJock> `Matir: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Bugs
<nenolod> hi LaserJock
<`Matir> ok, thanks
<LaserJock> hi nenolod
<StevenK> LaserJock: PONIES!
<LaserJock> StevenK: working on it
<nenolod> what's the deal with ia32-libs SDL?
<nenolod> is someone going to fix that? :P
<SnackPack> nenolod: is there a bug report on it?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: around?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Sorta.
<Larose> If my package doesn't use "configure" and "configure-stamp" in debian/rules, can I remove it or should I keep it empty ?
<LaserJock> you can remove it
<Larose> LaserJock: ok, thanks
<LaserJock> Larose: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
#ubuntu-motu 2008-01-03
<Kmos> Someone knows how to put this two lines working wish dash.. it has bashism
<Kmos> 	$(INSTALL_FILE) objmon/talk/[^a]* $(DESTDIR)/var/games/mordor/sample/objmon/talk/
<Kmos> 	$(INSTALL_FILE) objmon/[^dt]* $(DESTDIR)/var/games/mordor/sample/objmon/
<Kmos> the [^a] and [^dt^]
<Kmos> [^dt]*
<Kmos> filenames that start with "a" and "dt", right ?
<StevenK> I think it's the other way around
<StevenK> Filenames that *don't* start with 'a' or 'dt'
<Fujitsu> ^ inverts the check.
<ion_> d or t, not dt
<Kmos> ah ok
<Kmos> there is some way to do that reg expression in dash ?
<StevenK> grep
<StevenK> And it's a bit ... special
<Fujitsu> I thought I'd seen some of those just replacing ^ with ! and that working, but my memory of that is a bit foggy.
<StevenK> You're less than 20, your memory isn't allowed to be foggy
<Kmos> hehe
<Kmos> thanks for the help
 * StevenK kicks filterdiff
<StevenK> Please filter stuff, kthxbye
<lifeless> StevenK: lol
 * Fujitsu lowers some clouds onto StevenK.
<StevenK> On the other hand, I have plenty of reasons why my memory should be foggy
<StevenK> You'd think filterdiff -x '.svn' diff > diff.1 would just DTRT
<cyberix> Please give me any feedback on my package malbolge ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge )
<cyberix> I want to get it really shiny before next Monday.
<joumetal> xulrunner bugreport filed.
<nenolod> SnackPack, yes
<SnackPack> nenolod: what #?
<nenolod> SnackPack, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/179031
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179031 in ia32-libs "lib32/libSDL depends on old libraries and needs to be rebuilt" [Undecided,New]
<nenolod> it's a critical bug
<nenolod> for people using 32-bit apps in a 64-bit userland
 * txwikinger wonders how to patch a cdbs tarball.mk package
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
<RAOF> Good $TIMEOFDAY bddebian.
<slangasek> on advice of my lawyer, I have no comment on any claims regarding membership in any "gang"
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<bddebian> slangasek: Sure you are you elitist DD jerk.. ;-P
<Ubulette> isn't MOTU a gang ?
<bddebian> Man that's open for a CoC violation :)
<Burgundavia> the first rule of MOTU is that you don't talk about MOTU
<bddebian> hah
<Ubulette> same apply to mafias
<bddebian> MOTU == mafia? :)
 * RAOF should start charging protection money or features of Miro might get "accidentally" disabled.
<slangasek> "elitist DD jerk"? "CoC violation"? what is this, an Overfiend summoning spell?
<bddebian> haha :-)
<azeem> the second rule of MOTU is that you should ignore lines from bddebian which end with a smiley
<bddebian> Where has he been anyway?\
<bddebian> Oh ouch..
<bddebian> Damn, azeem you won't even let me have any "fun" here? Sheesh
<azeem> Overfiend talked in #d for a bit on the weekend
<slangasek> he has been in Indiana, and possibly in other places
<ion_> Anyone feel like taking a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected? :-) (A program that checks whether given hardware is connected, useful for scripting)
<bddebian> Should I feel slighted that I did a lot of work on a Debian package and didn't even get a ChangeLog mention? :0)
<slangasek> if feeling slighted makes you happier
<slangasek> otherwise, I generally don't advise it
<slangasek> ion_: sorry, no time to look at it in detail, but I'm curious - why would you need a package to check for whether hardware is connected, what does this give you that a three-line script to look under /sys does not?
<ion_> slangasek: A nicer interface than NIHing the three-line function over and over again. :-)
<slangasek> hum, ok
<ion_> AFAIK the only remaining issue with the package was that its Vcs-* pointed to a private repository. That has been fixed.
<slangasek> I have trouble applying the term "NIH" to anything that trivial
 * bddebian starts on build 94 of newpki-client
<ion_> slangasek: E.g. hardware-connected -m 8139too is IMHO nicer (and also more efficient) than something like modinfo -F alias 8139too | while read alias; do find /sys/devices -name modalias | while read file; do read line <$file; case "$line" in $alias) echo yes; break; esac; done; done
<slangasek> ion_: hum, is that any different than the much shorter find /sys/devices/ -name driver| xargs -n1 readlink | xargs -n1 basename | grep -q 8139too?
<SnackPack> I think what he's getting at is he wants to make something like this easier for novice scripters
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: ping
<slangasek> (though that's inexact, why use basename without also anchoring your grep)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: pong
<slangasek> SnackPack: I'm just asking whether there's a difference between those two usages
<ion_> slangasek: I donât think that works when querying whether e.g. something compatible with a certain driver in /usr/share/linux-restricted-modules/2.6.24-2-generic/modules.alias.override/nvidia
<SnackPack> slangasek: not sure
<ion_> hardware-connected would be handy for picking the newest possible proprietary nVidia driver for your hardware on startup.
<slangasek> ok, so for cases where you're trying to search /sys for things that don't match to loaded drivers, sure
<nxvl_work> did someone knows if there is a way to chat with the amazon support center?
<Hobbsee> ...way offtopic there
<StevenK> Gahh!
<StevenK> checking for 64bit platform... yes -> disabling GtkHTML2
<nxvl_work> Hobbsee: yep, sorry, i'm a little desperate
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Niiice.
<StevenK> Now I have to link against firefox
<Fujitsu> What's wrong with xulrunner?
<StevenK> xulrunner and firefox are mutally exclusive, no?
<Fujitsu> I thought we were moving to xulrunner-1.9 wherever possible.
<StevenK> Which requires porting work
<StevenK> (And a 50Kb patch, last time I did it)
<persia> mruiz: I'd probably try for a SRU rather than a backport for a FTBFS.  Also, this is a good example why asking the channel generally is preferable.
<persia> txwikinger: cdbs-edit-patch helps
<txwikinger> hi persia
<txwikinger> I am reading up on that.. :(
<txwikinger> :D
<Fujitsu> Hm, Firefox 3 is looking nice.
<LaserJock> persia: hi
<persia> hi LaserJock txwikinger
<Fujitsu> Particularly with the sane-looking tabs.
<StevenK> LaserJock: PONIES!
 * Fujitsu wonders why Firefox 3 seems to have gone all strange and now uses proper GTK icons and the like.
<StevenK> % grep -c 'warning: ' links2/current
<StevenK> 19485
<StevenK> *Twitch*
<txwikinger> ah works... just need to create the patch correctly :)
 * txwikinger needs to get sleep... good night
<imbrandon> herm what would be the equiv to self.listWidget_2.addItems(sections['main'][*].keys())
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ^^ oops wrong window
<ScottK> I'm back at home, so I can now be reached at this nick again.
<ScottK> persia: re your comment about SRU versus backport to fix an FTBFS...  Definitely.
<persia> ScottK: Well, it depends.  If the FTBFS was fixed by a new upstream version, I'm not sure it's right.  Needs some investigation and thought.
<ScottK> Backports isn't for fixing SRU worthy bugs.  FTBFS would fit in that catagory.  If it's FTBFS, it's not like the SRU has a regression risk.
<persia> Hmm...  I usually think in terms of feature stability rather than regression risk, but I suppose you're right.
<ScottK> The only place I can think of where a backport would be appropriate is if some other lib that didn't FTBFS needed to be upgraded too to make the new one work.
<persia> That would mean backporting the entire rdepends set, no?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Which is unpleasant, but allowable.
<ScottK> I'm waiting for my libclamav3 transition to age a bit in Hardy before I give that exact thing a shot.
<persia> Good to know.  I thought the backporters team didn't like to update libraries.
<ScottK> Don't like to.
<ScottK> Sometimes it's the right thing to do.
<persia> Ah.  "Don't like to" != "Doesn't".  I understand now.
<ScottK> libclamav is a good example.
<ScottK> You pretty much have to stay current.
<SnackPack> otherwise it screams at you
<SnackPack> heheh
<persia> From the discussion during the gutsy cycle, I thought upstream was willing to play nicely for future releases.
<ScottK> It's not the screaming.  It's eventually no updates and no security fixes.
<ion_> You also have to stay current with ion3, or its author switches to a non-free license. Oh, wait. He already did. :-P
<persia> ion_: Rather, you need to not include snapshots of ion in a distribution.
<ScottK> persia: For clamav, their perspective is they don't understand why you don't just run the current release.
<persia> ScottK: They still don't understand releases?  Annoying that.
<imbrandon> sounds like adobe
<imbrandon> hehe
<ScottK> Their view is version < 1.0, so they can do whatever they want.
<ScottK> At least with clamav you get source so we can patch all the older releases.
<ScottK> Speaking of which ...
<persia> Hrm.  Maybe they are saying "don't include it", but that's just non-ideal.
<ScottK> imbrandon: Did you ever finish looking at the backport for clamav from gutsy-security to feisty-backports?
<imbrandon> ScottK: yes i did, looks ok
<ScottK> persia: I think they're more narrowly saying don't whine to us about it.
<ScottK> imbrandon: Would you mark it in progress and subscribe the archive then?  Bug #177537
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177537 in clamav "Remote Code Execution" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177537
<ScottK> I'd do it, but I haven't built it on Feisty myself.
<imbrandon> ahh thought i had
<imbrandon> will do
<imbrandon> ScottK: hrm
 * minghua looks at #176994 and decides to steer away from it...
<imbrandon> they are all marked fixed
<minghua> LP still doesn't support bug blocking, does it?
<persia> minghua: Not yet...
<minghua> I don't think there is any package in universe sponsoring queue that I'm familiar enough to help.
<ScottK> imbrandon: Thanks.
<jcastro> hi guys
 * Fujitsu looks at bug #95419, and points minghua to comment annoyedly on it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95419 in malone "Record dependencies between bugs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95419
<Fujitsu> Hey jcastro.
<imbrandon> heya jcastro
<jcastro> is there a java pro in the house?
<persia> minghua: That's sort of the issue.  When the queue is smaller, one of the regular sponsors tends to get the harder ones.  As the queue has seen about 75 submissions processed in the last 24 hours, there's a few left.
<persia> jcastro: There's at least a number of amateurs.  What's the issue?
<minghua> persia: Right.  But I just got your email asking for sponsoring help...
<jcastro> persia: I've got some guys on the netbeans team that want netbeans6 in for hardy
<minghua> Fujitsu: Thanks for the bug pointer.
<persia> jcastro: OK.  We can do that.
<jcastro> persia: from my limited experience I can tell that there will be some issues
<jcastro> so I'd like to find someone patient. :D
<persia> jcastro: What's the current status?  I remember there being a couple members of that team working on 5.5 for gutsy.  Are they having issues with the update?
<jcastro> well, 5.5 was in multiverse
<jcastro> but they want it in universe
<jcastro> but they have a list of libraries that they uploaded as binaries last time
<persia> jcastro: multiverse -> universe is just a matter of dependencies / build-dependencies and licensing.
<jcastro> they'd like to do source uploads this time.
<Fujitsu> Err, binary uploads aren't possible.
<jcastro> they didn't want to maintain a bunch of libs last time
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, for Java multiverse, they are, but that's a different issue.
<jcastro> so they just did a bunch of .jars in multiverse
<Fujitsu> Who let them in last time?
<jcastro> but this time around they'd like to do it right
<Fujitsu> And why weren't they... educated?
<persia> jcastro: Does it work with system libraries?  Last I knew, there were a lot of local patches to libraries in netbeans.
<Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
<jcastro> Fujitsu: I had a phone conference with them, they just need to be taught.
<jcastro> they're not like, dumb
<jcastro> they just don't know.
<jcastro> persia: yeah, I think there are, but I don't know enough about the subject to know for sure, which is why I was asking
<Fujitsu> jcastro: I was also questioning the sponsor.
<jcastro> they were planning on doing their first cut at packaging this month
<persia> jcastro: who's your contact there?  I'm not deeply familiar with Java packaging, but have a personal interest in NetBeans, and am fairly familiar with our guidelines.
<jcastro> so I wanted to see if I could link them up with someone
<jcastro> persia: sec, looking it up
<jcastro> persia: arseniy kuznetsov, Marek Slama, and Petr Hrebejk
<jcastro> http://wiki.netbeans.org/wiki/view/SmallNbForLinuxPackaging
<jcastro> these are the libraries they need
<persia> jcastro: OK.  I was working with Marek for 5.5 to get the copyright file fixed.  I'll poke over there to see if I can help.  Is there an upgrade bug already?
<jcastro> not afaik
<jcastro> there's a launchpad page, but it's by a guy I don't know, doesn't appear to be upstream
<jcastro> persia: I plan on having another phone conference with them soonish, would if be ok if I brought you onboard for it?
<persia> jcastro: LP has an annoying limitation that every upstream has to also be registered as an LP project, so you'll see a lot of that.
<persia> jcastro: Depends on time of day and technology, but sure.
<jcastro> well, Sun does the conf call so they schedule it around our schedules and such
<jcastro> persia: can you shoot me your mail?
<imbrandon> dum de dum
<imbrandon> jcastro: btw i got in touch with Zonker today
<jcastro> imbrandon: and ... ?
<imbrandon> i'm gonna be doing a piece on OpenChange and LDAP , soonish
<imbrandon> mid feb i think, he is shooting me the details tomarrow
<jcastro> imbrandon: dude hot action.
<imbrandon> :)
<jcastro> I hope he can come to the next UDS or ubuntu live.
<jcastro> he always walks around and is like "link me up with interesting people for interviews."
<imbrandon> yea, has he been to one since Califorina ?
<jcastro> CA was his first one, so he was real shy
<imbrandon> yea
<jcastro> next time around we'll bounce him around like a cheap doll
<imbrandon> i talked to him a little bit, he tried to get me on camera heheh, i let Sebas do it
<jcastro> imbrandon: he's a big ohiolinux guy too (one of the planners), so make it to that.
<imbrandon> nice
<jcastro> though he lives in denver or something
<imbrandon> i have 4 planned this year
<imbrandon> yea denver
<imbrandon> pengicon, UDS, Ubuntu Live and SCALE
<imbrandon> penguicon*
<imbrandon> i never spell that right
<jcastro> scale sounds like fun.
<jcastro> imbrandon: I hear jono is keynotting this year
<imbrandon> yea, it looked like a blast last year, thus i put it on for this year
<imbrandon> he is ? killer
<jcastro> one of the planners, Ilan, was at ubuntu live
<jcastro> good people
<jcastro> make sure you link up with him
<imbrandon> he is an penguicon too right ? Ubuntu Rockstars everywhere
<imbrandon> s/an/at
<jcastro> Ilan? I don't think so.
<jcastro> Jono yeah
<imbrandon> no jono
<imbrandon> yea
<jcastro> Mako too
<jcastro> and xkcd guy
<imbrandon> Ilan, i have heard that name somewhere
<jcastro> and dibona and leslie from google
<jcastro> you remember leslie right?
<imbrandon> leslie!, thats my chick
<imbrandon> yup yup
<jcastro> word
<imbrandon> i have talked to her email a few times, when i was job hunting
<imbrandon> since UDS
<jcastro> ah
<jcastro> I could never work @ google
<jcastro> can't handle the math
<imbrandon> heh
<jcastro> I would last 5 seconds in an interview
<imbrandon> i got through 2 of them, then decided not to schedule a 3rd, it was above my league
<jcastro> it's ok
<jcastro> my friend went through _7_
<imbrandon> atleaste what i was interviewing for
<imbrandon> wow
<jcastro> imbrandon: we should ask zonker if he's coming to penguicon
<imbrandon> yea totaly, i bet he is
<jcastro> it'd be kickass to have him cover the -mi team's packaging jam
<imbrandon> if not he should
<jcastro> and have you MOTUs there
<imbrandon> yea i posted on my new years resolution about a PackageJam here in KC and 3 people i have never even heard of ( even via the lug ) emailed saying "when?" hehe
<imbrandon> so i got to get that done this month
<imbrandon> i was like wow there is ubuntu people in KC that arent part of the local lug
<imbrandon> i think it will go over well
<imbrandon> jcastro: from rumors ( and some of his comics ) i hear the xkcd guy is a Ubunut Fan
<imbrandon> Ubuntu*
<jcastro> he is
<imbrandon> http://www.xkcd.com/364/ is my personal fav ( other than "sudo make me a sandwitch" )
<jcastro> those stories are best told over beers though
<jcastro> gotta help a neighbor plow his driveway
<jcastro> bbl
<imbrandon> l8tr
<LaserJock> hmm, opensuse 10.3 really improved over the betas
<LaserJock> hmm, and they use package deltas for updates
<imbrandon> yea they have done that for a long time
<persia> Is rmadison terribly slow for anyone else today?
<imbrandon> persia: shouldent it run on your local system ?
<persia> imbrandon: I thought the r in rmadison was for remote.  For local, I always use apt-cache madison.  My "local" mirror is actually a couple kilometers from here.
<imbrandon> err i was thinking rdepends ( as in reverse ) , never mind, its late
<persia> imbrandon: Shouldn't it be "early" by now :P
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> im all screwy lately
<persia> That's what you get for pretending to be diurnal over the holidays.
<imbrandon> figuring out python ALOT better though ( no small thanks to Fujitsu )
<minghua> It's only 1 a.m., I'd say late.
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> persia: rmadison is reasonably fast here.
 * persia doesn't really track differences in north american timezones well
<persia> minghua: Maybe just me then.  Thanks.
<imbrandon> yea 1am here
<imbrandon> 1:13
 * minghua knows imbrandon and he are in the same timezone.
<imbrandon> minghua: ahh really?
<minghua> BTW grammar question, is it "imbrandon and he", or "he and imbrandon", or both are okay?
<minghua> imbrandon: Yes, I'm in Houston.
<imbrandon> cool
 * imbrandon is not the best person to be asking grammar
<persia> minghua: both are acceptable, although the former is preferred, as it gives precedent to the other party, so is more polite.
<persia> s/precedent/precedence/
 * persia decides that upstreams that don't bother with ChangeLog don't get DIF exceptions without someone else investigating it.
<nenolod> elkbuntu, i'm sorry if you took my comment the wrong way on #178888; there were some people getting off into topics not directly related to the bug :)
 * persia enjoys the use of bug reportsas discussion threads, and considers advocating the complete replacement of mailing lists 
<elkbuntu> nenolod, no worries. however please realise that the PC stuff, as annoying as it can be, contributes to the general atmosphere of the community. If we can do anything to equalise the male:female ratio then it will be beneficial in terms of user (and contributor) base.
<elkbuntu> nenolod, tbh, caroline's response annoyed me way more than yours anyway
<nenolod> elkbuntu, caroline's response is wtf
<nenolod> elkbuntu, i think that it's inappropriate for software error messages to use slang in general
 * persia points at the wtf application
<elkbuntu> nenolod, agreed, and it's even more wtf when you consider her history with ubuntu
<nenolod> i think someone reporting it as a "sexist remark" is a little over the top, but that's life
<nenolod> if it makes nmap guys stop acting like kids in their code, then more power to them though
<elkbuntu> nenolod, it was, however refusing to accept that anyone had an issue with it is wrong
<nenolod> due to nmap's messages, a lot of people feel that it's a script kiddie app
<nenolod> elkbuntu, yeah
<nenolod> elkbuntu, never should somebody talk in literals when describing a group of people ;)
<nenolod> persia, yeah. just make a virtual package in ubuntu called "talk-about-random-crap" and replace ubuntu-users list with that
<nenolod> with launchpad bugmail it'll be like nothing changed
<nenolod> ;)
<persia> nenolod: Actually, the use of virtual packages makes sense.  Creating a new bug creates a new mailing list / forum thread.  People can subscribe to the virtual package to subscribe to those items.
<persia> The only issue is when the bug gets "closed".  Perhaps when each raised issue has been discussed and resolved, someone closes it.
<elkbuntu> persia, yep, and as a plus, it means bugs will actually make it past someone's whinge on a busy conglomerated list
<nenolod> this is a great idea
 * persia especially likes the possibility of declaring some person's post to be "Invalid".
<elkbuntu> however it would become equally unmanagable if you didnt take out the questions like 'how to i find my ip address' or 'how do i add a new user'
<minghua> LP should just reuse the malone code and develop a mailing-list-alternative. :-)
<persia> elkbuntu: That's what the "Convert to a Question" feature is desiged to support.
<Fujitsu> persia: I like that.
<Fujitsu> minghua: It's getting mailman support, unfortunately :(
<minghua> Fujitsu: Oh.  :-(, too.
<nenolod> elkbuntu, i thought #ubuntu was for that
<persia> Further, if we could set up a forums-like UI in parallel, we could merge all the forums stuff.  Be nice to see forums workarounds in proper, addressable, bug reports.
<elkbuntu> nenolod, no, that's for trolls to scream abuse at ops for banning them from offtopic ;)
<nenolod> elkbuntu, that's abus as in "a bus"
<nenolod> remember, trolls are illiterate
<nenolod> and they go around calling everyone names
<elkbuntu> persia, i havent used LP much lately, out of touch with all the new features
<persia> elkbuntu: See.  That's another argument for integration.
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: Hahahahahahahaha new features in LP?
<nenolod> LP has new features?
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, surely something's changed in the past 5 months
<nenolod> I thought the build number is generated with rand().
<nenolod> :D
<nenolod> i wish launchpad was opensource
<nenolod> malone is a very nice bugtracker
<Fujitsu> Mhm.
<nenolod> hmm, actually, really, that malone as a general messaging platform really does make sense
<nenolod> now all we need to do is get sabdfl to sign off on it
<nenolod> and the rest will just happen ;)
<nenolod> this channel scares me sometimes!
<Fujitsu> Whenever I'm on ubuntuforums.org, I keep looking for the status column.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, to mark posts as invalid?
<nenolod> :D
<Fujitsu> Yeah, or incomplete.
<nenolod> me too, and then i find myself disappointed when there isn't a status column ;p
<persia> I'm more interested in avoiding bug reporting to MLs or forums, and integrating everything, rather than the fun of the status column.
<minghua> If you don't have mailing list or forum, you need a triaging team constantly dealing with "my system is broken!!!" bug reports.
<nenolod> minghua, nono. the idea is to turn the bug tracker into also a forums system and mailing list by using virtual packages and a pretty UI on top
<nenolod> ;)
<persia> minghua: How is that different from the current situation?
<nenolod> yeah, that too
<nenolod> i get tons of bugs assigned to ubuntu-audio that are invalid
<nenolod> kinda makes me wonder where the users get their drugs from time to time some of the bug reports i have read
<nenolod> :P
<persia> nenolod: Likely the triagers can't evaluate that.  At least they trim the truly bad before assigning the team.
<nenolod> persia, i'm thankful for that
<nenolod> :D
<minghua> persia: Not really to me.  But the bug triaging team probably see it differently.
<nenolod> the bug triaging team is one that takes a lot of abuse i imagine
<nenolod> emotional abuse? mental abuse? probably both.
<minghua> nenolod: I know.  I sort of like the idea, too.  I was just commenting on persia's "avoiding bug reporting to ML or forums" point.
<persia> minghua: Depends.  If the forums moderators and supporters, and the active support people on ubuntu-users@ joined the triagers ranks, I'm not sure it would be all bad.  Plus, ubuntu-bugs@ shouldn't be the bug contact for these virtual packages.
<nenolod> launchpad answers is already based on malone anyway AFAIK
<imbrandon> wow, someone said "forums" , thats my queue to goto sleep :)
<minghua> persia: My gut feeling is that is will be a big change for not much practical gain.
<nenolod> minghua, the practical gain would be being able to rate threads ;)
<nenolod> "Invalid", or if you really want to confuse someone, "Fix Released"
<persia> minghua: I think the gain would be 1) "Convert to a Question", 2) forums workarounds in bug reports to help get towards a solution, 3) everyone working on the same target, 4) no more bugs being forgotten because they were only posted to a mailing list.
<imbrandon> rember not all forum activity is bug reports or support issues, alot of social behavure happens there too ( not that i personaly partake, but it does )
<nenolod> where as "Invalid" means: "your thread sucks, please fix it and come back later, and "Incomplete" means: please add more detail. this thread is boring.
<imbrandon> nenolod: does that mean i get a "TLDR" status on malone ?
<minghua> persia: Yeah, I agree being able to convert a discussion thread to something else (question, formal bug report, etc.) is a plus, but I don't see it a big gain.
<nenolod> imbrandon, what is TLDR?
<imbrandon> nenolod: TOO LONG DIDENT READ, my fav thread anwser
<nenolod> imbrandon, yeah probably
 * minghua foresees LP status ping-pong.
<persia> minghua: I just see lots of duplicate conversations with people missing things between the mailing lists, the forums, and bugs.
<nenolod> minghua, launchpad crashing because the thread was too bad?
<nenolod> :D
<persia> imbrandon: Don't complain about that, or I'll start sending you personal mail :P
<imbrandon> heh
<nenolod> "I refuse to process this. It's too stupid. throw(Exception)"
<Fujitsu> raise TooStupidError
<nenolod> yeah
<imbrandon> throw(pbkac)
<imbrandon> Problem Between Keyboard and Chair
 * minghua never gets the PBKAC metaphor.
<minghua> Shouldn't the torso be there, instead of the head?
<imbrandon> minghua: e.g. an idiot, the person between the keyboard and the chair
<minghua> Okay.  Person.
<nenolod> there's also ID10T errors
<nenolod> ;)
<minghua> Cultural differences, I suppose.  Chinese seldom refers a person as a problem.
<imbrandon> hehe :)
<persia> minghua: Yes.  Difference between redemption and forgiveness.  Blame Peter.
<imbrandon> minghua: btw i'm curious now that you said your in the states , why are you here? family? school? job? non_of_my_business? hehe ( not that it matters one bit, just curious )
<minghua> imbrandon: School, graduate student at Rice.  But I suppose non_of_your_business too... :-P
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> okies yall, i'm falling asleep at the keyboard, gnight
<nenolod> whose mruiz?
 * persia waits for mdczzbjljk tlaw4
<nenolod> i bumped audacious and audacious-plugins in debian, all he needs to do is merge them
<nenolod> :s
<persia> nenolod: mruiz seems to be active starting in 3-5 hours most days.
<nenolod> well
<persia> nenolod: You could also merge them, if you like :)  What's the remaining variance?
<nenolod> i'm just curious on how he intends to solve the bump requests, as i could do it in just a few minutes ;)
<nenolod> persia, our patches are for pulseaudio integration
<persia> nenolod: Ah.  Yes.  Can't adopt that.
<elkbuntu> nenolod, lamont already made it known how he feels: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nmap/+bug/178888/comments/4
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178888 in nmap "Please sync nmap 4.50-4 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<nenolod> elkbuntu, right, but about 4.50-4, but not about 4.52
<persia> nenolod: best not to go too cutting edge vs. Debian for an LTS, unless there's a really good reason.
<nenolod> persia, that's how i feel yes. :)
<elkbuntu> nenolod, actually, that's about both. i read that he says 4.52 isnt classed as stable yet and he'd prefer to wait, but 4.50-4 is stable and acceptable
<nenolod> ah.
<nenolod> elkbuntu, well, nmap 4.50-4 does work fairly reliably, and it probably would be good for an LTS
<nenolod> persia, the pulseaudio patches in audacious-plugins can be dropped, the pulseaudio patches in audacious must remain
<minghua> Wonderful sysvinit versions we have here -- Debian has 2.86.ds1-47, Ubuntu has 2.86.ds1-14.1ubuntu32.
<persia> nenolod: Right.  If you're sure about the former, submit a sync bug & subscribe mruiz.  For the latter, someone needs to make a debdiff.
<persia> minghua: It's all sorts of special due to upstart
<imbrandon> oh wow some of the comments on that bug report are crazy, this is all over "dude" in an error message ?
<persia> imbrandon: Ignore the bug.  Find a trivial additional patch, and upload 4.50-4ubuntu1 closing the bug today.  Make it all go away :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<nenolod> persia, i can make a debdiff
<nenolod> persia, i have the debian audacious and ubuntu audacious on my hard drive
<nenolod> ;)
<persia> nenolod: In that case, just make a merge bug, add an explanation for DIFe, attach the debdiff, and subscribe mruiz & the sponsors.
<nenolod> persia, certaintly.
<nenolod> persia, do you want the debdiff between 1.4.5-1 or 1.4.4-1ubuntu1 ?
<persia> nenolod: debdiff against debian is preferred
<nenolod> oh wait
<nenolod> no
<nenolod> persia, we still need to keep one change in -plugins, but i can handle it ;)
<persia> nenolod: Excellent.
<warp10> persia: I just uploaded a new version of tennix to fix the errors you reviewed. Now it should be fine. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tennix
<persia> warp10: Excellent.  I firmly believe you'll get the best quality package by getting others reviews (you've likely fixed the issues I would find), so I encourage you to seek other reviewers.  If nobody has touched it by next REVU day, and it comes up in my FIFO queue, I'll look at it again.
 * Fujitsu really likes the REVU sort order nowadays.
<warp10> persia: Ok, sure. I'll try to find someone else reviewing my package. :)
<persia> warp10: The best way is just to post an advertisement here reporting the status and asking for reviews one a day or so (choosing different times may help due to reviewers timezones, but try to avoid more than once in each 24 hours).
<warp10> persia: Indeed I ask here every day (and no more then once a day). (Un)fortunately Christmas time has gone, and work level is raising again. :)
<persia> warp10: Understood.  If you've hit all my points, you're probably getting quite close to an advocation.
<warp10> persia: Great! I hope I can work on one or two more packages before FF.
<persia> warp10: I strongly recommend working on them in parallel.  Waiting for reviews can be slow, but if you've four or five candidates in queue, they are all likely to get hit together.
 * Fujitsu advises fixing bugs rather than working on new packages.
<warp10> persia: Well, since it was my first package, I waited for your reviews before starting a new one, to avoid doing the same error multiple times. Now that I catched many issues, I prbably can work on a couple packages togheter
<nenolod> oops. i need to redo that debdiff, i left a .rej file in there ;)
<Fujitsu> Ng: Please reupload terminator after building with debuild -S -sa. -sa makes it include the .orig.tar.gz.
<Ng> Fujitsu: oh, sorry, will do
<Ng> I've been trying to make a workflow that uses bzr-builddeb, so I've probably messed up the source builder command
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Ng> there's a whole bunch of stuff to learn in about 20 directions atm, but it's a good challenge :)
<nenolod> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/179471
<nenolod> ;)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179471 in audacious-plugins "Sync audacious 1.4.5-1 and audacious-plugins 1.4.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<minghua> nenolod: I think you mean "merge" instead of "sync".
<nenolod> it's 3AM :P
<persia> nenolod: looks like all the right people are subscribed, but the title & description leave a bit to be desired.
<nenolod> persia, what should i add to the changelog?
<nenolod> er
<nenolod> description
<nenolod> (i'll change debian/changelog for the both of them too ;))
<persia> nenolod: It oughtn't be a "sync", and it might be nice to describe the ubuntu changes being retained.  Also, since we're past DIF, providing some justification for the DIFe would be good.  I also like to see the Debian changelog, personally.
<nenolod> sure
<minghua> nenolod: A side issue -- you can delete bad debdiffs you don't want.  In the left pane "Bug attachments", click "edit" of each one.
<nenolod> minghua, i didn't know. thanks for the tip. :)
<minghua> I know nothing about multimedia stuff, so I can only help on editorial points. :-)
<nenolod> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/179471
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179471 in audacious-plugins "Merge audacious 1.4.5-1 and audacious-plugins 1.4.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<nenolod> how about that description :D
<nenolod> some major bugs dating back to 1.3 were fixed, basically is the synopsis ;p
<persia> nenolod: That certainly includes everything.  I like short convincing summaries, but I'm lazy :)
 * nenolod uploads debdiffs with fixed changelog ;)
<nenolod> there. perfected.
<nenolod> :P
<Ng> Fujitsu: done (although I have to say that I've not yet addressed all of the previous comments - I'm more looking at making sure I'm not wildly off track with pycentral)
<Fujitsu> Ng: I'll have a look - I'm fairly good with Python policy.
<Ng> cool, thanks :)
<nenolod> at any rate
<nenolod> i can't do anything about zsnes in amd64 until ia32-libs SDL is fixed :/
<nenolod> i have an ugly-yet-valid-and-standards-compliant way to build it on amd64 in debian/rules, but it won't link cause of the ia32-libs problem ;)
<persia> nenolod: Have you submitted a patch to ia32-libs yet?
<nenolod> persia, i intend to look into that next
<nenolod> persia, i was under the impression that ia32-libs was just a collection of binaries though
<persia> nenolod: It comes from a source package (like everything else)
<nenolod> right. i'll pull it then and see what's up ;)
<nenolod> i don't know how i can patch it though ;p
<nenolod> ia32-libs_2.2ubuntu2.tar.gz  (433.8 MiB)
<nenolod> fantastic
<nenolod> :D
<persia> nenolod: It's not the biggest, but it's a definite competitor.
<nenolod> persia, is it all of the sources for the libs?
<persia> nenolod: I suspect so.  I haven't looked in a while now.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I have a question about Python policy -- is it normal for a python extension (.so file) to link against libpython2.x.so?
<nenolod> ah.
<nenolod> persia, ia32-libs is a tarball of packages pulled from the i386 archive.
<persia> nenolod: I bet there is a script that defines what gets pulled that could take a small patch.
<nenolod> persia, hopefully
<nenolod> ia32-libs-2.2ubuntu2/fetch-and-build
<nenolod> probably this ;)
<Fujitsu> minghua: I'm not too sure about extensions.
<Fujitsu> (the linking bits of them)
<minghua> Fujitsu: Okay, thanks anyway.
 * minghua has an oddball piece of software here, it's both a python extension and a scim plugin.
<nenolod> persia, it just pulls the latest version from the archive and builds it
<nenolod> persia, it's an ugly little system they have
<nenolod> persia, so someone just needs to do a "No change rebuild"
<nenolod> however, i have something else i want to do to ia32-libs
<persia> nenolod: So the SDL libraries are already there, just broken?
<nenolod> add libao ;)
<nenolod> persia, yes
<Fujitsu> Ng: Why did you move away from CDBS?
<persia> nenolod: Well, if you make a patch, that is the easiest way to get a rebuild, although a changelog-only patch works too.
<Ng> Fujitsu: for some daft reason I thought it wouldn't work with pycentral, but pochu has enlightened me otherwise, so I think I should switch back
<nenolod> persia, libao isn't critical. it's just something zsnes guys want.
<nenolod> (honestly, i still have mixed feelings on whether or not zsnes should be in the archive at all, given it's 64-byte binary blob use in two different places -- same blob though)
<Fujitsu> Ng: See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy, particularly the section entitled `CDBS + distutils'.
<nenolod> it's a case of practicality (e.g. nobody probably cares about that ROM, it's two decades old) verses correctness
<Ng> Fujitsu: will do. I'll try and scrap the current stuff and get it re-rolled tonight :)
<Fujitsu> Ng: Sounds good - terminator looks most useful.
<Ng> :D
<nenolod> persia, i'll add libao to the library manifest
<nenolod> and submit a debdiff, and hopefully that'll fix ia32-libs at the same time
<nenolod> but i'm not sure if the buildd's actually build anything
<persia> Ng: Just a side note, you might want to check the copyright on the .po files.  Last I looked it still had template cruft.
<Ng> persia: *nod. I noticed that too last night, and I think I have enough information from the one translator so far to fix that :)
<persia> Ng: Excellent!
<persia> Would anyone with a powerpc be willing to try building http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mednafen/mednafen_0.8.5-1.dsc ?
<Ng> as a more general point, how should the translations get included with the package? I've been perusing gnome-app-install's packaging and I don't see them anywhere in the final .deb
<TheMuso> persia: I'm on it.
<TheMuso> persia: In hardy?
 * TheMuso boots his PowerPC.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  yes, in hardy.  The new upstream looks like it closes a bunch of bugs, but I don't want to introduce more FTBFS.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<persia> Ng: Depends if you're in universe or main.  In main they get stripped into the translations packages.
 * persia doesn't actually know the answer for universe, but thinks gnome-app-install might not be the best example to work from
<Ng> persia: ohhh, yeah and of course g-a-i will be in main
<Fujitsu> Nothing special is done to universe packages.
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right, but where should the translations be put to be active?
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm not sure. Wherever they're meant to be put, I guess. Nothing Ubuntu-specific.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's about my level of understanding as well :(
<Ng> not to worry, I'm sure I can find something that does it, and rip it apart :)
<StevenK> Ng: Beg pitti about translation stuff.
<Ng> :)
<persia> bddebian: I can still reproduce bug #119407 with 0.7.1-1.  Any objections to the suggested patch?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119407 in monsterz "monsterz game does not start" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119407
<nenolod> build:
<nenolod> #       ./fetch-and-build
<nenolod> W. T. F.
<nenolod> shouldn't that be enabled???
<StevenK> ARGH
<persia> nenolod: someone prefers shell to make
<nenolod> persia, this is from ia32-libs
<nenolod> persia, it's not building anything. it's using the debs that are already there.
<nenolod> persia, which is why it's all screwed up
<nenolod> :(
 * StevenK fiddles with Rails more
<StevenK> I made the mistake of reading the old Python code last night
 * StevenK shivers
<persia> StevenK: When code is old, only those other than the author should ever read it.
 * nenolod removes that # of MASSIVE BREAKAGE
<StevenK> persia: This code is so bad I'd be afraid of anyone else seeing it ...
<persia> StevenK: Release eary, release often :)
<StevenK> I'm not sure I want other people reading my Ruby either :-)
 * nenolod makes a debdiff
<StevenK> I'm fairly sure I do a few things that'd make purists want blood
<persia> StevenK: Assuredly.  One hopes they'd flay you with patches.
<nenolod> i can't touch ia32-libs
<nenolod> i don't think
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Why not? Binaries?
<persia> nenolod: Why not?
<nenolod> cause reading the changelog .. you're supposed to recreate the binaries yourself instead of having the buildd do it
<persia> nenolod: ping one of the previous uploaders about it.
<nenolod> i'll make a debdiff and subscribe the previous uploader
<nenolod> problem solved ;)
<DaveMorris> if anyone has time can they please review my package. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<StevenK> persia: I'd be happy for you to flay me with patches, but I suspect it might feel like work
<persia> StevenK: Possibly.  Note that I did one (1) Ruby project, and left with a strong distaste for Rails and dreams of the official release of Ruby 1.9.
<StevenK> Strong distate for Rails? How?
<persia> StevenK: It's slow (yes, really).  The recommended optimisations are cruft.  The routing is painful.  It completely fails to cache anything.  It encourages the use of code in templates.  The templating language needs replacement.  I could go on...
<TheMuso> persia: Building now.
<StevenK> persia: If you think Rails routing is painful, look at how Jifty does it.
<persia> StevenK: On the other hand, Merb + Haml (with a touch of Active Record) isn't so bad, and if I had another Ruby project, I'd use that.
<StevenK> If that doesn't turn you off, the fact that Jifty is by the same people who spawned Request Tracker ought to.
<StevenK> ActiveRecord is love, I have to say
<nenolod> DaveMorris, consider using dpatch instead of cdbs simple-patchsys.
<DaveMorris> nenolod: why?
<persia> I'd prefer slightly more agressive caching, and better support for enumerations in properly normalised databases, but otherwise I agree.
<TheMuso> nenolod: Why?
<nenolod> dpatch is more standardised, while simple-patchsys is a cdbs-only thing.
<TheMuso> So?
<StevenK> persia: Rails 2 ought to do caching, and might address some of your speed and optimisation concerns.
<TheMuso> cdbs with simple-patchsys is fine. No more build-deps needed.
<DaveMorris> but if it works why change it?
<persia> nenolod: Right.  So people who plan to un-CDBS their packages shouldn't use it.  That should be rare.
<nenolod> fair enough ;p
<TheMuso> If I am working on a cdbs package and I need to add patches, simple-patchsys it is.
<nenolod> W: ia32-libs source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.6.2.0 (current is 3.7.3)
<nenolod> oh that's just fan-tastic
<StevenK> Ignore it
<persia> StevenK: Not very well.  I suspect a lot of what went into Rails 2 (which I tried the day it came out) will end up making me happier with merb+haml+sass.  I'd like a better way to tie in javascript for AJAX, but that's easy enough to work around.
<StevenK> I'm having enough troubles without AJAX :-)
<nenolod> StevenK, i intend to be as apathetic to this package as possible
<nenolod> StevenK, it scares me
<persia> StevenK: Without AJAX?  It should be simple then.  Define some views.  Set up the routing.  Use make_resourceful.  Have a good day.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: RT's not tooooooo terrible.
<StevenK> persia: Should be. Maybe I'm not as smart as I think.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yuh huh. You talking to someone who has to debug and write code to use it.
<StevenK> s/You/You're/
<nenolod> actually i've noticed that a lot of people try to out-think Rails
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Oh, I've hacked it up quite a bit.
<Fujitsu> It's only a bit evil. There are worse things.
<StevenK> RT3.0, RT3.2 or RT2?
<nenolod> request tracker makes me want to cry
<Fujitsu> RT3.6.
<nenolod> RT was so painful in my experience that i advocated upgrading to bugzilla
<nenolod> even though it wasn't really meant for that
<StevenK> Ah. RT3.6 made writing some parts simple. Try RT2
<Fujitsu> Sounds ooold.
 * StevenK still has the scars
<nenolod> what i was using was some RT3.x
<nenolod> and it was bad enough
<StevenK> >> dvd.title
<StevenK> => "$2, $1"
<nenolod> i can't see why anybody would praise RT
<StevenK> Hrm. Me thinks Ruby's .sub! doesn't work like Perl
<Fujitsu> I ended up having to rewrite a significant portion of selfservice and other bits.
<persia> StevenK: Not at all.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: That would be because selfservice sucks
<Fujitsu> It really, *really* does.
<nenolod> my first real experience with RT was making it use LDAP for authentication (the RT was for internal use)
<nenolod> it was sad. :(
<Fujitsu> There's a contrib module for doing that now, and it seems to work.
<Fujitsu> Though the implementation at work has some extra SSO evilities added.
<nenolod> really i'd rather not discuss what i would do to the author of RT if i met him ;p
<StevenK> Fujitsu: SSO?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Single Sign On.
<StevenK> Ah. Thank $DIETY I never had to crack that evil nut
 * StevenK whispers XSS close to Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> I don't think my implementation of it was too bad.
 * StevenK hugs script/console for debugging model code
<Fujitsu> Though some of the applications did I got job of fighting having it retrofitted.
<Fujitsu> s/I/a/. Don't know how I managed that.
<StevenK> s/I \(go\)t/a \1od/  ?
<Fujitsu> Um, yeah, that too. I managed to stuff that up well.
<Fujitsu> I blame Perl.
<Fujitsu> And HTML::Mason.
<StevenK> .sub!, I will have my revenge ...
<TheMuso> Have people been rejecting diffs just because they bump the standards version without validating why either in the changelog or the bug?
<TheMuso> persia: mednafen built, just doing install/remove checks.
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<nenolod> TheMuso, most packages are already compliant with 3.7.3 if going 3.7.2 -> 3.7.3.
<TheMuso> nenolod: Thats not the point.
<persia> TheMuso: I've been rejecting them if they aren't clearly doing something else or linda or lintian tells my they don't actually comply.  Where they fix something else useful, I've been undoing the standards version change and dch'ing myself so the annoying person bumping the standards doesn't get upload credit.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks for testing that.
<nenolod> TheMuso, i just say "Bump standards-version to 3.7.3" in mine if it was already compliant
<persia> nenolod: But there's clear evidence of some contributors not even bothering to check.
<StevenK> Hum. So, Ruby, if I say local var = self.arg, don't change self.arg when I change local var :-/
<nenolod> persia, yuck :D
<nenolod> well
<nenolod> i subscribed the previous uploader to my bug
<TheMuso> persia: Ok thanks.
<TheMuso> I'd poke the person in question, but they are currently not on IRC.
 * broonie normally explicitly says "policy x.y.z (no changes)" for noop policy updates
<persia> TheMuso: There were a couple of *really* old standards version bumps (one was 0.3) in the queue.  The suggested fix was to only update debian/control, which was a case of clear rejection.
<nenolod> 0.3?
<persia> broonie: But would you want Ubuntu variation for that?  I don't think it's worth it.
<persia> nenolod: Yes.
<nenolod> i've never seen a 0.3 package
<nenolod> what package is this? :D
<broonie> persia: No, I'd never do that for an Ubuntu change unless there were enough other diffs that it was just noise.
<nenolod> i mean, that's just irresponsible
 * persia suggests examining a lintian tracker
 * StevenK idly wonders if local var = String.new(self.arg) is naughty
<persia> broonie: That's my thought.  If a package is out of date, and getting updated in lots of other ways, and the updater wants to fix it to comply with the new standards version, it seems reasonable.  Otherwise, no real point.
<nenolod> persia, yes. i agree there
<persia> StevenK: It's considered poor form.
<broonie> Or if the policy changes are real bugs of some kind.
<nenolod> ubuntu variation for a standards bump is crap
 * Fujitsu sees 2x 2.x
<persia> broonie: In those cases, I'd be perfectly happy to see the bugfix without the policy bump.
<broonie> persia: Me too but equally I wouldn't be upset about the policy bump either.
<persia> broonie: Neither I, really (as long as the result was also lintian/linda clean)
<nenolod> 180,000 bugs in launchpad
<nenolod> \o/
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Yay...
<TheMuso> persia: Go ahead and sync mednafen.
<nenolod> mednafen is nifty
<persia> TheMuso: Bug drafting in process now...
 * persia actually decides to steal Fujitsu's bug for it
<nenolod> so, what should i do about zsnes
<nenolod> is two instances of a copyrighted ROM (64 bytes each) worth removal?
<nenolod> maybe i should email debian-legal
<TheMuso> persia: It has been synced.
<persia> TheMuso: Hrm?
<TheMuso> hardy-changes shows it.
<StevenK> *Way* *cool*.
<StevenK> My code causes webrick and mongrel to segv
<StevenK> Ahh. They don't like recursion much
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  That was mine too: I wonder why it doesn't appear in rmadison.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Nice job.
<TheMuso> persia: Its only just happened.
<TheMuso> I checked mail, and there it was.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Rails *really* doesn't like it if you have a method called title trying to use self.title ...
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  Right.  45 minutes ago.  I should probably stop now :)
<StevenK> !recursion
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about recursion - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<StevenK> Sigh, we could have at least have a quip like "See !recursion until it makes sense."
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I'm not sure many things will like that.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<nenolod> i think i'm going to just not think about the binary blobs in ZSNES
<nenolod> because i know if i do something about that, i'll just get flamed and it's not worth it ;p
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, there might be a dmca exception for obsolete gaming systems ?
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, we can't legally redistribute it
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, we also legally can't redistribute libsidplay2.
<DarkMageZ> i suppose it's not a reverse engineer and reimplement. bugga.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, if you want to pursue this, go ahead, but i'm not going to be the one who takes the massive flamage for this
<nenolod> :D
<Fujitsu> You're not going to get flamed for following up licencing issues.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, actually, ZSNES could be modified to do hardware level ROM emulation
<nenolod> but pagefault claims rom reimplementation is a waste of time
<nenolod> so i'm not seeing that happening
<nenolod> and my x86 asm knowledge is not that slick
<nenolod> Fujitsu, not by devs, but by users surely
<nenolod> i'll be "the guy which resulted in ZSNES being removed from Debian and Ubuntu"
<DarkMageZ> where's the correct place to bring up licensing issues? bug tracker? i'm going to call on it. better to be flamed than run risks.
<nenolod> i don't want to be that guy :D
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, i'd try debian-legal
<DarkMageZ> as ubuntu isn'
<DarkMageZ> only syncs* good thinking.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, if you want to know where the offending code is, i'll tell you all about it
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, there's two copies of the same blob
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, copy 1 is the initial data stored in SPCRAM, declared at zsnes/src/cpu/spc700.asm lines 45-53
<DarkMageZ> bloody debian & their obsession with mailing lists...
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, copy 2 is in SPCROM, declared at zsnes/src/cpu/spc700.asm lines 117-122
<nenolod> next binary blob is 1KB
<nenolod> zsnes/src/chips/dsp1emu.c lines 73-201
<nenolod> 2KB, rather.
<DarkMageZ> oddly enough. that file doesn't exist in zsnes svn. or i'm blind
<nenolod> the next binary blob is at
<nenolod> (also 2KB)
<nenolod> zsnes/src/chips/dsp3emu.c lines 35-164
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, they're all in svn
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, just replace zsnes with trunk ;)
<nenolod> hmm
<nenolod> in SVN, the SPC700 ROM is indeed no longer present, i think
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, try grepping for SPCROM
<DarkMageZ> there's a folder called zspc
<DarkMageZ> tho it looks to be c code
<nenolod> yeah. that's the spc core from audacious
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, so ./src/chips/dsp3emu.c lines 74-201 is a copyrighted rom from nintendo.
<nenolod> yes
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, dsp1emu
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, dsp3emu is 25-154
<nenolod> in SVN
<nenolod> however
<nenolod> we are still shipping the SPC700 ROM in the current ZSNES package
<DarkMageZ> ah yeah. typo. they haven't even thrown in comments to show that it's not their own work... shady
<DarkMageZ> yeah. so if the current package was synced to svn then we'd only be breaching dsp chips.
<nenolod> that's not much better.
<nenolod> well, they're all dsps
<nenolod> but
<nenolod> that's not much better. :P
<nenolod> plus, there's probably other blobs that we are not yet aware of
<DarkMageZ> yeah, still not legal unless zsnes has a licence to redistribute the roms.
<nenolod> which i can assure you they don't
<nenolod> ;)
<DarkMageZ> have you asked them about their licence to them? if not i will.
<nenolod> yeah
<nenolod> i did
<nenolod> pagefault replied with something along the lines of "get some fucking balls, it's not like nintendo is going to enforce the copyrights"
<nenolod> i forget the details of how his roms came up
<DarkMageZ> sounds like pagefault to me
<nenolod> ;)
<nenolod> at any rate
<DarkMageZ> i'm gonna figure out how to use a mailing list. then i'm gonna push the evidence at debian legal.
<nenolod> we need to determine our position on zsnes, libsidplay2 (which contains C64 KERNAL and BASIC), snes9x which probably contains the ROM too
<nenolod> mednafen probably contains blobs
<nenolod> visualboy is clean. i know for a fact.
<nenolod> it does HLE ROM emulation
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, i'm going to bed
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, as for mailing list, you subscribe then send a message ;p
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, yeah. i didn't wanna mess up my first post on a debian mailing list =D good night.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, be sure to CC: me
<nenolod> ;)
<DarkMageZ> i will
<nenolod> well
<nenolod> BCC: actually
<nenolod> i want to watch but not be flamed ;)
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, also you should make it clear that all of the firmware is abandonware, because it might make things different than otherwise
<nenolod> (e.g. "All of the firmware we have identified in ZSNES is believed to be abandonware.")
<nenolod> goodnight
<DarkMageZ> yeah, ty for the reminder.
<nenolod> probably CC: the zsnes guys too
<nenolod> bbl for real this time :D
<\sh> moins
<geser> Hi \sh
<\sh> hey geser....time to do the wine community a favour and upload 0.9.52 from http://www.sourcecode.de/~shermann/wine/0.9.52/ ? :)
<geser> I try to not touch wine, till now very successfully
<\sh> geser: well, just sponsor ;) I'll take the blame
<DarkMageZ> \sh, have you done regression testing :P
<geser> \sh: what about becoming a MOTU again?
<\sh> DarkMageZ: well itunes works on i386...:)
<DarkMageZ> \sh, it has my vote... hopefully it'll fix the massive regression 0.9.51 gave me.
<\sh> DarkMageZ: what went wrong with 0.9.51?
<\sh> geser: it's a todo on my list...for 2008...:)
<DarkMageZ> \sh, it segfaults when trying to run Age of Wonders
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Last time I tried that it didn't segfault but didn't work anyway... did it with < 0.9.51?
<DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, yeah. it was happy with the previous version that was in the archives.
<\sh> DarkMageZ: on hardy?
<Fujitsu> A few months ago there were nasty error dialogs as soon as gameplay started, but I haven't tried recently.
<DarkMageZ> \sh, yeah. hardy.
<DarkMageZ> i wish the wine guys would build their own mass regression test suite
<ChrisGibbs> gday all
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Nah, that'd be too easy.
<\sh> DarkMageZ: as long they are not concentrating on one "bug free" release, it won't ever be reaching a stable release
<\sh> windows is too complex regarding all it's features inside
<\sh> too many hacks in the software to workaround problems etc.
<ChrisGibbs> Im thinking of doing some dev work for Ubuntu. Been using it for the last few years and finally want to contribute back to the community. I have limited experience with C and a fair bit with Java, perl and python. Would there be any point of me learning C++ or just code in languages im decent at?? Im pretty much finished my B of CompSci and gonna have some free time, what better way to spend it :)
<persia> ChrisGibbs: Best way to start would be to look into some bugs in languages you know.  Once you've hit a few to get familiar with the processes, you'd be in good shape to look at some of the others, and might be in good shape to learn new languages working on different things.
<DarkMageZ> ChrisGibbs, if you're into music visualization. then the libvisual project might be a good place to kill time ? would be a great challenge to grind your c skills axe at. if you're looking for a single project =D
<ChrisGibbs> persia: Coolies. Thanks for the heads up. I have been pouring over documentation for the last few days about starting points etc... and thinking i will probably have a look into some bugs
<ChrisGibbs> on the weekend
<ChrisGibbs> DarkMageZ: Im into music, but visulizations isnt my strongest point, I have mainly concentrated on networking and security @ uni and have my CCNA. Working in the industry currently as a Network Admin. Wanna probably get into development for better integration with Windows Enterprise Environments...... but that is a fair way off :)
<Hobbsee> soren: might be able to help you there, then
<soren> Hobbsee: er?
<Hobbsee> soren: poach him for -server based stuff?
<soren> Hobbsee: Ah, I thought you were talking *to* me, not *about* me.
<Hobbsee> soren: no, but as an aside, i'll suggest that you talk to him :)
<Hobbsee> it's the nick completion
<soren> Who?
<soren> Hobbsee: Yes. Very annoying.
<Hobbsee> soren: ChrisGibbs.  right above.
<\sh> ChrisGibbs: hmm...fix MS then ... e.g. you could fix AD  ;)
<ChrisGibbs> haha
<DarkMageZ> ChrisGibbs, ah. sweet. someone with their ccna =D. you might have fun hacking at the gnome network manager & nm-applet. adding gui network bridging, routing and cool stuff like that. (in a user friendly way)
<\sh> DarkMageZ: well, a first shot would be adding cisco vpn support into NM ,-)
<\sh> the cisco vpn client has a strange mind regarding co-working with NM :)
<ChrisGibbs> cisco integrated with the NM..... its hard enough getting the client to run :)
<ChrisGibbs> just a matter of convincing everyone to use SSL
<soren> \sh: What's the problem? Works fine for me.
<soren> ChrisGibbs: mathiaz is working on AD integration and such. You could pester him if you want :)
<\sh> soren: it worked fine for me too...when I ifconfig <unused device> down
<soren> \sh: Bug no?
<\sh> soren: it's a bug in ciscos module...not NM...cisco should honour configured devices with an ip attached to it, not using the first device it can find without any ip addr on it...
<soren> \sh: I don't follow at all? You're not talking about network-manager-vpnc?
<\sh> soren: at least the version i had to use
<\sh> soren: no..I talk about cisco vpn client....to commercial one...the vpnc I couldn't use because it didn't work with our keys
<soren> \sh: Bug no for that, then?
<Fujitsu> The Cisco VPN client sucks, especially on Windows.
<\sh> soren: there was a TAC for it at cisco...I don't know the number, our network people did thaqt
<Fujitsu> vpnc actually works sometimes.
<soren> I've never had vpnc fail on me, I believe.
<soren> I've used it with.. Um... More than three different networks, at least.
<ChrisGibb1> I prefer vpnc over the Cisco client
<Fujitsu> I have, but only because of a GCC bug which took ages to work out.
<ChrisGibb1> yeah I have used it with around 3 different networks as well
<soren> These days you don't even have to have the group password decrypted. It can use it as is.
 * persia wonders if any of the vpnc users about would like to address bug #124663, which needs someone familiar with the code to give some attention :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124663 in vpnc "No default internet traffic after connecting to VPN" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124663
<\sh> soren: but only if you use group password security...when you have for every user a separate key and user+password scheme on your vpn end...it didn't work out with vpnc these days
<soren> \sh: That must have been a loooong time ago.
<\sh> soren: feisty :)
<soren> pre-breezy, at least.
<soren> I've done just that since at least breezy.
<soren> persia: vpnc is merely obeying what the vpn gateway is telling it to do.
<soren> persia: It's quite easy to override, though.
<\sh> soren: our setup was: root ca cert + company cert + user cert + password...it was even a mess exporting the root ca and company cert out of the cisco vpn client on windows...only IE was able to do that
<persia> soren: Actually, according to one of the users, it isn't.
<persia> soren: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vpnc/+bug/124663/comments/11
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124663 in vpnc "No default internet traffic after connecting to VPN" [Medium,Confirmed]
<soren> persia: I'm confused. Is it a n-m-vpnc problem or a vpnc one?
<persia> soren: n-m-vpnc
<soren> persia: I haven't read the bug report closely at all.
<soren> ...then perhaps reassigning it would be a clever idea :)
<persia> Or at least I think it's n-m-vpnc.  I don't use either n-m or vpnc, so I'm not qualified to judge, but I'm opinionated enough about split routes by default that I ended up subscribed to the bug.
<soren> ...and in that case, it's probably a dupe, IIRC.
<ChrisGibb1> night everyone. got work early
<soren> It must be really early if you have to go to bed at half past two in the afternoon.
<soren> I don't believe in timezones.
<Hobbsee> heh
<persia> soren: Time zones do apply for $work :P
<Hobbsee> most unfortunately
<soren> persia: Not where I live.
<ChrisGibb1> lol midnight here and got work in 7hrs
<persia> soren: I'm sorry to hear that.  I had a job like that once...
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: you're in adelaide?
<soren> persia: Some day when I have enough time, I plan to beat network-manager's vpn api into a bloody pulp along with those plugins and do things the right way.
<persia> soren: Regarding n-m-vpnc, looking at all bugs ever opened, only bug #178142 looks like it might be the same issue (but as I said, I'm not sure if it is vpnc or n-m-vpnc)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178142 in network-manager-vpnc "default gateway is incorrect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178142
<persia> Ah.  Good.  Thanks :)
<soren> persia: It might be against n-m-openvpn instead.
<soren> It's really a network-manager vpn api issue.
<soren> It's not really designed to be as flexible as most vpn solutions actually need it to be.
<soren> network-manager is not designed to handle multiple routes and all that jazz, so naturally it doesn't expose an API for setting them from the vpn plugins.
<persia> bug #175085?  Anyway, I suspect you're correct that it is an API issue if I'm finding the same thing open in all these different places...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175085 in network-manager-openvpn "Default gateway missing after connection setup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175085
<soren> I'm quite comfortable with network-manager{,-openvpn,-vpnc} code, but I just don't have the time :(
<soren> bug 88069
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88069 in network-manager-openvpn "[Feisty] n-m-openvpn fails to pull routes" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88069
<soren> That was the one I was thinkging of, I think.
<soren> Alas... So much brokenness.. So little time.
<persia> Well at least one of the four gets a dup :)
<ChrisGibb1> Hobbsee: Couple hrs north of Sydney
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: then it's 12.33am, not midnight, surely.
<ChrisGibb1> it is..... was rounding down  :P
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: norah head or something, i take it.  fun.
<ChrisGibb1> Terrigal
<Hobbsee> heh, i was close ;)
<ChrisGibb1> very
<ChrisGibb1> where abouts are you?
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: sydney
 * Hobbsee was recently up there, so knows about the distance
<StevenK> There's a whole bunch of us in Sydney
<StevenK> Aww
<StevenK> He seems like fun
<ChrisGibb1> ?
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> ChrisGibb1: Didn't see your 1 and thought you'd dropped off :-)
 * StevenK is another Sydney person
<ChrisGibb1> damm pidgin playing up again i think
<StevenK> Use a real IRC client? :-)
<imbrandon> irssi ftw :)
<imbrandon> moins StevenK
 * StevenK waves
<\sh> imbrandon: I'll send the drive next week
<imbrandon> \sh: killer :)
<imbrandon> \sh: have a good new year?
<\sh> imbrandon: yeah...were celebrating new years eve with the family of my fiance, at least the family who is in and around germany :)
<imbrandon> :)
<\sh> some strange videos were also hitting youtube...really strange videos ,-)
<imbrandon> hhahahahah yea
<imbrandon> ok time to leave for work, bbiab
<\sh> btw..is anyone playing eve online? ;)
<imbrandon> not anymore, i did a few years ago
<imbrandon> hrm what does iPhones have to do with VMWare
<imbrandon> quote "You Could Win an iPhone
<imbrandon> When you Update your Profile Information "
<imbrandon> ^^ from VMWare
<imbrandon> stooping to new lows heh, obviously they have my profile info if they are emailing me
<imbrandon> I'd rather win something like a ESX License , heh
<\sh> ok.../me needs to do some housework...:)
<\sh> bbl
<netzmeister> slomo, ping
<mruiz> hi all
<Vorian> hey there mruiz :)
<mruiz> hi Vorian
<mruiz> Vorian, I noticed that you started with the debian/watch crusade :-)
<Vorian> aye
<Vorian> mruiz: very badly though
<Vorian> :)
<bluekuja> persia, around?
<persia> bluekuja: Almost not.
<persia> Vorian: status, assignment, subscription for bug #179931...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179931 in gnome-compiz-manager "gnome-control-center new upstream version: 0.10.4" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179931
<bluekuja> persia, just a fast question
<bluekuja> persia, why gmsh  (2.0.7-1.1) is missing in Debian's changelog?
<bluekuja> persia, but is there in ubuntu (we have 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1
<persia> bluekuja: Likely because the maintainer didn't acknowledge the NMU.
<mruiz> persia,
<bluekuja> persia, should I keep that entry as valid?
<Vorian> persia: so status would be fix committed?
<bluekuja> persia, e.g 2.0.7-1.1
<persia> bluekuja: I don't know specifics in this case, but as I understand it, Debian maintainers are permitted to ignore NMUs if they wish.  Better to ask a DD :)
<bluekuja> persia, deleting that entry will mess up ubuntu 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1
<persia> Vorian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue are the key references.  They are updated as things change.
<Vorian> thanks persia
<bluekuja> persia, and anyway the missing debian entry is there since a lot of new revisions
<bluekuja> persia, merged in Ubuntu
<persia> bluekuja: How so?  Until we sync, we preserve all our changelog modifications.  If we acknowledge the NMU, we keep the changelog entry.  If we don't care about the NMU, we can drop the changelog entry.  Personally, I don't like changing history, but I'm not confident enough it is wrong to complain to the maintainer.
<persia> mruiz: ?
<bluekuja> persia, right, I'll keep that entry then
<bluekuja> persia, so we keep following the previous revisions
<persia> bluekuja: As far as I understand it, yes.  Probably best to also check with someone with a deeper familiarity with Debian processes: it might be something worthy on complaint.
<persia> s/on/of/
<mruiz> persia, is it correct to fill bugs (debian watchfile needed) against all packages on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php ?
<bluekuja> asac, around?
<persia> mruiz: As long as you are intending to provide a patch.  Otherwise it's just bug noise.  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_upstream.php is also a good list to hit once you get better with watch files: most of those are just syntax errors.
<Vorian> persia: got it.  I will be less sloppy in the future with status, assignments, and subscriptions.
<persia> Vorian: Excellent.  I predict faster assimilations of your contributions.
<Vorian> \o/
<Vorian> kewl
<mruiz> :-)
<asac> bluekuja: what about?
<bluekuja> asac, nvm, asked to pitti :)
<mruiz> When do I need to update Standards-Version to 3.7.3?
<persia> mruiz: When the package is ubuntu-only (not maintained in Debian), and you've updated it to match the current policy.
<mruiz> persia, but I'll get a Lintian warning if I don't update it
<persia> bluekuja: Please keep 2.0.7-1.1 as long as 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1 remains outstanding.  Otherwise it's hard to track.  When that is the only remaining change, we can sync.
<persia> mruiz: Yes, but you likely have other lintian output as well, no?  Further, if the package is maintained in Debian, the task of tracking standards versions properly belongs to the Debian maintainer.  It's only the packages not in Ubuntu that we need to ensure match the latest standards.
<bluekuja> persia, pitti suggested to remove 2.0.7-1.1 as well
<bluekuja> <bluekuja> pitti, e.g I remove 2.0.7-1.1 but I keep 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1
<bluekuja> <pitti> yes
<bluekuja> persia, what to do?
<persia> On the other hand, if a Debian package is very out of date, and you update it, that's fine, but be sure to fix all the other lintian warnings, errors, informational messages, etc. and verify against the latest policy.
<persia> bluekuja: pitti: bluekuja: 'keep' -> you mean when merging it and writing the changelog? sure, can't hurt
<persia> bluekuja: pitti: bluekuja: right; well, if it causes any trouble, just drop it
<persia> Essentially, leave it there until it no longer has value (is the only remaining change), and request a sync.
<bluekuja> persia, should it be added as a remaining change?
<bluekuja> persia, ok, I'll comment the bug then
<persia> bluekuja: No, doesn't need special mention in the changelog that we're preserving a changelog entry.  We never add "Retained Ubuntu changelog entries".  Just consider it part of the Ubuntu changelog entries until we can sync.
<bluekuja> persia, kk
<persia> bluekuja: The reasoning for my position is that the changelog entry for 2.7-1.1ubuntu1 doesn't make as much sense without the context of 2.7-1.1.  As soon as we don't need the 2.7-1.1ubuntu1 entry, there's no sense preserving 2.7-1.1.
<bluekuja> persia, yep, agreed
<mruiz> persia, I agree with your idea about Standards-Version
<bddebian> Heya gang
<mruiz> hi bddebian !
<bddebian> Hello mruiz
<rhpot1991> if I am making a package that will need to create a table, how do I go about doing that so it can be packaged up at some point?
<mruiz> persia: bug 180113 :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180113 in gnustep-ppd "Debian watch file doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180113
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<\sh> re
<netzmeister> wb
<Vorian> mruiz: you watchfile fixer' uper' :)
<mruiz> hahaha
<Vorian> only 453 to go
<mruiz> :-)
<hellboy195> hey guys. in a .desktop from debian I have a Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/qtdmm.png  and the old ubuntu one is Icon=qtdmm   <--- isn't the .png necessary?
<Kmos> hellboy195: nop.. it should be Icon=qtdmm
<hellboy195> Kmos: thx :D
<Kmos> and it's a .png icon, try to use dh_icons =)
<hellboy195> Kmos: and Encoding=UTF-8 is also outdated?
<Kmos> hellboy195: yes
<hellboy195> Kmos: great
<Kmos> replace it with Version=1.0
<hellboy195> Kmos: ok
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> when we bump 0ubuntu1 to 0ubuntu2, we need to change the maintainer field, if I'm not the maintainer ?
<azeem> who's the Maintainer now?
<Kmos> https://launchpad.net/~arbiter-deactivatedaccount
<Kmos> it was him
<Kmos> i'm talking about knowit package
<Kmos> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<Kmos> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<Kmos> it suggests to change it
<mruiz> !
<mruiz> Kmos, which package?
<Kmos> mruiz: "knowit"
<Kmos> !info knowit hardy
<ubotu> knowit: Tool for managing notes. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.10-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 152 kB, installed size 608 kB
<Kmos> bug 180121
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180121 in knowit "KnowIt watch file is broken" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180121
<AnAnt> Hello, is there a working URL for debconf tutorial ?
<geser> AnAnt: have you tried looking at debconf-doc?
<AnAnt> geser: yes, there was an easier tutorial on the web
<mruiz> Kmos, did you fix the debian watch file ?
<Kmos> mruiz: yes
<Kmos> i've updated bug with changelog
<mruiz> Kmos, did you tried with update-maintainer?
<mruiz> s/tried/try/g :-)
<Kmos> it needs hardy to run..
<Kmos> the current maintainer has account disabled in LP, so it's the best thing to do
<Kmos> I think =)
<DaveMorris> Hi, can someone revu my small package please - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<Kmos> isn't properly a merge..
<mruiz> Kmos, I think that update-maintainer will fix your problem
<Kmos> kmos@bash:~/packages/knowit-0.10$ update-maintainer
<Kmos> You don't have hardy in your source repos.
<mruiz> Kmos, please install ubuntu-dev-tools ;-)
<Kmos> mruiz: i've that
 * mruiz -> lunch
<bluekuja> geser, willing to work on glide FTBFS or I can do it?
<geser> bluekuja: you can have it
<bluekuja> geser, thanks
<Kmos> mruiz: it does the same thing I've done =)
<Adri2000> Kmos: you just need the hardy deb-src in your sources.list
<Kmos> Adri2000: i've used --section :)
<mruiz> mathiaz, I'm reading your comment about adtool :-)
<bddebian> persia: WTF man, the urbanterror data package is 700+ Mb!! :)
<jdstrand> \sh hi!
<jdstrand> \sh I am (finally) processing your debdiffs for wesnoth
<jdstrand> bug #173881
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173881 in wesnoth "the option "turn_cmd" can stall a computer or maybe start another application" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173881
<jdstrand> \sh: I am not done but so far everything is looking really good (thanks!)
<jdstrand> \sh: I had one small nit in the dapper debdiff
<jdstrand> \sh: in the changelog, you linked to a patch that did you did not apply (because the file doesn't exist)
<\sh> jdstrand: hmm....damn :( are you fixing it or should I do it later this evening?
<jdstrand> \sh: no biggie, and you don't have to anything, I just thought I'd mention it :)
<jdstrand> \sh: it is just a small changelog fix-- no problems
<jdstrand> :)
<\sh> jdstrand: cool...thx :)
<jdstrand> I'm fixing it
<jdstrand> \sh: no, thank you!
<\sh> that reminds me...I have to do a drupal sec fix
<zul> hey mdomsch
<AnAnt> Hello, I am making an artwork package that includes a GDM theme
<geser> zul: Hi, do you know if xen-source-2.6.16 is of any use in hardy or if it can be removed?
<zul> geser: chuck it
<AnAnt> Hello, I am making an artwork package that includes a GDM theme, now what is the correct method to configure the system to use that GDM theme ? Replace /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom ?
<AnAnt> or edit it ?
<mdomsch> greetings zul
<geser> AnAnt: you mustn't modify files from other packages
<AnAnt> geser: that's a conf file
<geser> AnAnt: but it's not yours and can be modified by the admin
<AnAnt> geser: so, what to do ?
<AnAnt> geser: how about using debconf to ask wether he wants gdm.conf-custom to be modified ?
<AnAnt> is that alright ?
<stgraber> install your theme and let the user do the change using gdmsetup
<AnAnt> stgraber: how about using debconf to ask wether he wants gdm.conf-custom to be modified ? is that acceptable ?
<stgraber> I never saw a gdm theme package using debconf
<stgraber> and it may be weird if the user is installing 2-3 theme packages at the same time (either being asked 3 times the same question or having only one package asking the question)
 * jonnymind is away: dinner
<mathiaz> I'm currently reviewing bug 136994
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136994 in roundcube-webmail "Please make 0.1-RC1 or later of roundcube available in repositories" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136994
<mathiaz> The situation is that roundcube was package first in Ubuntu as roundcube-webmail. But now Debian has also a version of roundcube, named roundcube.
<mathiaz> So I was wondering if changing roundcube to Conflict and Replace roundcube-webmail is enough to fix the problem.
<_MMA_> ScottK: Any word on that mppenc backport? I haven't seen it hit the repo. :-/
<rzr> is there an other roundcube project ?
<ScottK> I think the archive admins were on vacation last week.
<mathiaz> rzr: nope. It's the same project.
<ScottK> _MMA_: Patience.  There are a number of others pending too.
<mathiaz> rzr: it's just that it was first package in Ubuntu with a different name than the one used by Debian later on.
<rzr> so what were the motivation to -webmail in package name ?
<_MMA_> ScottK: Sure. But within a month I figured it would have been processed.
<mathiaz> rzr: don't know.
<ScottK> _MMA_: what's the bug number?
<_MMA_> Im looking now.
<ScottK> mathiaz: And provide too.
<rzr> mathiaz: I would suggest then to merge them both in roundcube :)
<mathiaz> rzr: well - I'd like to drop roundcube-webmail completly.
<Fujitsu> You'll have to at least keep a transitional package.
<mathiaz> ScottK: roundcube should also provide roundcube-webmail ?
<rzr> that's the lazy way :)
<rzr> it's good to be lazy sometime :)
<_MMA_> ScottK: Bug 174722
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174722 in gutsy-backports "Please backport mppenc to Gutsy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174722
<ScottK> mathiaz: Off the top of my head, yes.  But mind a transitional package like Fujitsu says too.
<ScottK> _MMA_: Looking
<mathiaz> Fujitsu: hum.. So how would be the transitional package solution ?
<_MMA_> Looks like Riddle looked on the 18th. I guess if it were pushed after that it might not have been processed by the admins yet.
<Fujitsu> mathiaz: Same as any other transitional package. There are a multitude of examples in the archive.
<ScottK> _MMA_: It's in NEW for Gutsy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
 * _MMA_ MUST bookmark that one of these years. ;)
<_MMA_> Cool Scott. Thanx.
<sladen> mathiaz: talk to the Debian maintainer of 'roundcube' and ask for their suggestions
<sladen> mathiaz: basically in the future, which are you likely to want to maintain
<persia> bddebian: Maybe not a candidate for the installation CD then?  Also, how well do you know the monsterz source?
 * TheMuso sighs. Some people just don't understand sync request bugs.
<bddebian> persia: Probably not that well why?  All of the cursing? :)
<persia> bddebian: No, you were just in the changelog, and I can still reproduce the completely fails to work on AMD64 bug.  If you knew the source, I'd ask for your input on the proposed patch.  If you were just cleaning up debian/, I'll investigate later.
<bddebian> persia: d00d, I don't know any source :)
<geser> bddebian: program and forget?
<persia> bddebian: Just checking :P
<TheMuso> People are still not understanding that when someone like myself creates a sync request bug, sets to confirmed, and subscribes ubuntu-archive, that the sync request is actually a request for the archive admins to sync the package, and not someone requesting someone else update the package, with what could still be a totally wrong diff/sync request.
<TheMuso> Well, at least one person isn't.
<bddebian> TheMuso: Yeah, I got one of those too and I was like WTF?? :)
<persia> People are just trying to be helpful.  Better to point such people at the out of date list, although with only six weeks left to FF, maybe not so exciting.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah I know.
 * TheMuso sighs. Another one.
<TheMuso> persia: You might want to take a look at your freedroydrpg sync bug.
<TheMuso> freedroidrpg even
<persia> TheMuso: Amusing.  In that case it's just a new debian revision, and that is the correct debdiff.  On the other hand, the debdiff isn't the right way to solve it.
<TheMuso> persia: I know, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention. He did the same for a sync bug of mine, and went so far as to set status to in progress.
<persia> smiutils?  For freedroid, it's just assigned.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah smilutils.
<SnackPack> that's me
<SnackPack> what's up
<persia> Snackpack: we don't use debdiffs for syncs.
<SnackPack> okay
<persia> More specifically, there is a sync tool in the archive management software that the archive administrators use when updating a package.  This is preferred to upload.
<SnackPack> what's the tool called?
<persia> Of much more interest in a sync bug is the description summarizing the changes and rationale for the sync.  This is typically sufficient to convince a member of ubuntu-dev to grant and DIF exception, after which we only wait on archive-admin action.
<persia> SnackPack: The tool is part of launchpad.  No idea if it has a separate name.
<SnackPack> hmm, guess I'll just wait for the classes on all this tomorrow
<persia> SnackPack: which class?
<SnackPack> aren't there irc classes on this every friday?
<SnackPack> I mean, there's so much stuff in the launchpad wiki, I don't know what is current and what's not
<persia> SnackPack: There's the MOTU Q&A sessions, which are expected to have their second week of holiday hiatus tomorrow.  Questions are also encouraged at any time in this channel.
<persia> For current practices, I suggest wiki.ubuntu.com.  Further, I suggest starting from httpw://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> Err.  That should be https.
<SnackPack> guess I'll ask in here before attempting *any* bug
<StevenK> Hyper Text Transfer Protocol Weak ? :-P
<SnackPack> but I'm taking off soon
<persia> SnackPack: That's a good way to start.  What sort of thing are you trying to accomplish?
<persia> StevenK: Yes.  Has 1-bit encryption, for special added protection.
 * StevenK smirks
<SnackPack> take on some simple bug tasks...  maybe become motu
<persia> SnackPack: For simple stuff that provides an introduction to packaging and processes, I'd suggest starting with watch files, .desktop files, and similar supplementary tasks.  These are unlikely to impact the packages much, and tend to be a good introduction to the processes.
<persia> A list of missing watch files can be found from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php, and you can generate a list of packages that might need a .desktop file from http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/find-missing-desktop (but see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles for guidelnes on inclusion).
<bddebian> Later gang
<SnackPack> thanks, I'll see if I can get on some of those tomorrow
<tormod> ogra: hi, please don't forget about bug #177126
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177126 in xscreensaver "please merge xscreensaver 5.04-2 from Debian unstable main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177126
<StevenK> Hum.
<StevenK> Does ldd recurse down the stack of shared libraries?
<soren> StevenK: I don't belive it does, no.
<ion_> Iâd *assume* not, but i donât know.
<StevenK> Hum. Does objdump, then?
<ion_> Iâd *assume* not, but i donât know. :-)
<soren> StevenK: I don't belive it does, no.
<soren> StevenK: I'd be more surprised by the latter, though.
<ion_> Yep
<StevenK> Mmmm.
<soren> by a few orders or magnitude.
<soren> of magnitude, even.
<soren> Luckily, it's quite a bit easier to implement a recursive version from a non-recursive one than to attempt to filter the other way around.
 * StevenK is trying to figure out if gtkhtml is getting pulled in.
<StevenK> It isn't depended on directly
 * soren mumbles something about strace or lsof
<StevenK> It's a library
<greg-g> What is the best way to request an update of a package to the newest upstream version (which fixes at least one bug) when maintainer (same for ubuntu and debian) has not responded to bugs about the issue in both launchpad and debian bugs?
<tormod> StevenK: ltrace
<slangasek> StevenK: ldd does recurse.
<Kmos> greg-g: you already filed a bug in debian about the new upstream version of the package ?
<StevenK> I thought one of them did.
<StevenK> slangasek: And I see your point about directfb, I'll be looking at that after work
<slangasek> ok
<greg-g> Kmos: yes, I wasn't sure what to title it at the time so it was just a copy of the upstream bug tracker's bug title
 * StevenK looks for how gtkhtml is used
<greg-g> should I just submit a bug against it titled "New Upstream version, please update" ?
<Kmos> greg-g: "New upstream version X.XX"
<greg-g> Kmos: should I include any links in the body or leave it blank?
<Kmos> greg-g: links and some good reasons to have it updated. like bug fixes.
 * greg-g wants to do it the "standard way" and follow etiquette
<greg-g> Kmos: got it, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2008-01-04
<crimsun> StevenK: will you be handling on the libsdl1.2 merge?  (I'm looking at bug 180221 ATM)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180221 in libsdl1.2 "sound doesn't work using libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio binary package" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180221
<crimsun> handling the*
<StevenK> It needs to be merged again?
<crimsun> yep, new upstream version
<StevenK> Grumble. asc doesn't differ with Debian
<StevenK> crimsun: Yeah, I'll look at merging it. I'll bleat if I have any issues
<crimsun> StevenK: ok, thanks.
<somerville32> imbrandon, ping.
<somerville32> imbrandon, Where can I find the script to sync accounts with launchpad groups on a machine?
<nenolod> somerville32, it's part of the revu code
<YokoZar> Would adding myself as a MOTU candidate to the MOTU meeting agenda be appropriate?
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, have you contacted debian-legal yet ?
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, or did you chicken out?
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, i'm polishing the email. i'll send you my draft soon
<nenolod> groovy
<somerville32> nenolod, I see the code to grab the gpg keys but are you sure the code for getting the ssh keys are in the revu trunk?
<crimsun> YokoZar: normally you'd send an e-mail to motu-council@u.c detailing your application.  It's standard practice to CC people who can vouch for you.
<YokoZar> crimsun: I've already done that
<crimsun> YokoZar: if you feel you need to say something in the meeting, then sure, please do add yourself.
<YokoZar> crimsun: Ahh, but otherwise it's just handled by email fine?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> (I just re-read the e-mail from Sat.)
<imbrandon> nenolod: no it isnt part of revu, somerville32 one moment
<imbrandon> i'll find the bzr branch
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: do we have that on LP under the ubuntuwire project yet ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's in a bzr branch under my ~, I think.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> orko:~fujitsu/lpusers is the bzr branch. I'll symlink it under my public_html.
<imbrandon> kk, cool
<imbrandon> somerville32: ^^
<Fujitsu> somerville32: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~fujitsu/bzr/lpusers
<Fujitsu> Erm, permissions issue, I think.
<somerville32> 403 :]
<imbrandon> somerville32: note when looking at it, its talored for our use , so i would audit it before using it
<Fujitsu> somerville32: bzr branch it.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu has done a great job at abstracting most of it though, so should be fairly simpe to cusomize
<imbrandon> simple*
<somerville32> That was quick
<somerville32> It branched just like that *snap*
<Fujitsu> It's only one file, so...
<imbrandon> i'd imagine there are only a few revisions, we dident have it in bzr for a long time
<imbrandon> and its only one file
<nenolod> imbrandon, sorry. my mistake. i thought he was looking for GPG. :)
<somerville32> I just associated bazaar with natural slowness no matter what :P
<Fujitsu> somerville32: It's only slow when branching enormous trees from LP, really.
<imbrandon> or pushing them
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> That too.
<Fujitsu> Though bzr+ssh works.
<imbrandon> would be cool if bzr kept stats on how many times a branch was "branched"
<crimsun> to be fair, bzr 1.0 is scads faster than what was in feisty.
<Fujitsu> The HTTP server would have to do that.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: right but that wouldent work for bzr+ssh etc
<Fujitsu> crimsun: It's quite good, except for huge trees over HTTP(S).
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Does this script crawl sub-teams?
<Fujitsu> somerville32: +rdf does that automatically.
<imbrandon> somerville32: as i said its talord for our use ( like where the sshd looks for key files and such, you'll likely want to change some bits )
<imbrandon> just fyi
<somerville32> Such as looking to ensure you're there? lol
<Fujitsu> That bit's probably not so necessary now that we're not screenscraping.
<imbrandon> such as /home/<user>/.ssh/authorized_keys on a "default" system instead of /srv/ssh-keys/<user>.key
<imbrandon> and it assumes there is already a ubuntu-dev system group
<imbrandon> and a few other misnomers
<imbrandon> yea the sanity check for me probably isnt needed anymore now that +rdf works
<imbrandon> before it was html scraping and it was needed to ensure the LP ui dident change unexpectedly on us
<somerville32> Is there a reason why you place the keys in /srv/ssh-keys/ instead of the user's home directory?
<imbrandon> to make backups on the UW servers easier
<imbrandon> we backup the critical services but not user data
<Fujitsu> It also means that we don't have to create ~user/.ssh if it doesn't exist, setting permissions.
<imbrandon> right
<somerville32> Is it possible to get sshd to look in both places?
<imbrandon> no , unfortunately
<somerville32> So I'll have to change the AuthorizedKeysFile option?
<imbrandon> leaste not openssh-server with ubuntu, never looked into another sshd
<imbrandon> somerville32: either that or the script
<imbrandon> i would change the former though
<imbrandon> personaly
<imbrandon> bbiab
<somerville32> What is the token for the username?
<somerville32> %h is home directory from what I can gather
<imbrandon> %u
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Note that the script allows users to manually add additional keys to the file, if they wish.
<imbrandon> #AuthorizedKeysFile     %h/.ssh/authorized_keys
<imbrandon> AuthorizedKeysFile      /srv/ssh-keys/%u.key
<imbrandon> ^^ orko's sshd_config option
<imbrandon> if thats what you mean
<nenolod> hmm
<nenolod> well,
<nenolod> DarkMageZ is about to send the report of our analysis of zsnes's legality to debian-legal. :)
<ion_> What is the result?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ion_> Hi
<bddebian> Hi ion_
<pwnguin> is it okay for files to retain the redhat name?
<ScottK> TheMuso: If your up for looking into a powerpc FTBFS, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11144671/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-powerpc.papaya_0.97.20031122-5.3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is available...
<ScottK> pwnguin: Context please.
<pwnguin> dpkg-query -S redhat-*
<ScottK> dpkg: *redhat-** not found.
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> does it only search installed stuff?
<LaserJock> yep
<pwnguin> ok, well for example
<pwnguin> install-data: /usr/share/app-install/desktop/redhat-manage-print-jobs.desktop
<pwnguin> the desktop file itself also has Categories=GTK;Monitor;System;X-Red-Hat-Base;
<ScottK> I'd say look at the licensing of the files in the package and see if Redhat claims any trademark restrictions.
<TheMuso> ScottK: I'll look at it when I get a chance, thanks.
<nenolod> hi.
<vorian> aloha :)
<nenolod> does anyone know if the audacious-1.4.5 / audacious-plugins-1.4.4 task has been looked at yet?
<nenolod> it fixes some critical bugs
<nenolod> and people keep filing duplicate upgrade requests
<ScottK> TheMuso: Great.
<slangasek> bddebian: did you get anywhere with your jugglemaster segfault?
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> slangasek: No :-(  persia was going to check it out.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<bddebian> slangasek: I almost have newpki-client building with wx2.6 too.  Maybe it'll segfault as well. :)
<slangasek> bddebian: you have a backtrace posted anywhere for the segfault?
<bddebian> It's less than helpful but let me check
<bddebian> slangasek: I have like every dbg and dbgsym package on the planet installed and I get this: http://paste.debian.net/46105
<slangasek> eew it uses dpatch, maybe I don't care enough to look into it. :)
<slangasek> hah, it segfaults in the C++ constructors?
<slangasek> well, this will be fun
<bddebian> yeah, weird huh?
<slangasek> nah, "fun"
<slangasek> weird would be if it segfaulted in the destructors on startup
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> persia also noticed some weirdness on amd64 with -fPIC
<bddebian> In fact I don't think it even built on amd64
<slangasek> hmm, this is the package that was newly uploaded and depends on wxwindows 2.4, innit
<bddebian> yup
<slangasek> well, I'll see for myself soon enough what happens on amd64, since that's where I started
<slangasek> /usr/bin/ld: jmdlx.o: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `JMFrame::sm_eventTable' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<bddebian> Yep, that's it
 * slangasek rolls his eyes
<slangasek> Dear upstream, your source code is a waste of electrons.  Hugs and bunnies, Vorlon
<bddebian> hah
<slangasek> $ wx-config --ld
<slangasek> g++ -shared -fPIC -o
<slangasek> $
<slangasek> yes, that's a completely wrong way to be linking an executable kthx
<bddebian> Yeah, I had to change that.  It was doing --ldflags
<bddebian> I know, it is still wrong but..
<slangasek> ah, right, I see that's part of the patch.  Well, the original sin is still upstream's
<bddebian> aye
<slangasek> hum, this should work
<slangasek> ok, which of the apps did you try to run that gave you this segfault?
<bddebian> jmdlx
<slangasek> right, the only one that's wxwidgets, gotcha
<slangasek> no segfault on amd64
<slangasek> will try i386
<bddebian> what'd you change?
<slangasek> I got rid of the wx-config --ld bit and restored the $(CXX) invocation
<bddebian> f**king lameage :-(
<slangasek> hmm, that seems to fix the segfault on i386 for me
 * bddebian is an idiot as usual
<slangasek> lots of Pango-WARNINGs about invalid UTF-8 strings...
<slangasek> related to the style
<bddebian> Yeah, it still needs some work with UTFication
<slangasek> er, all ascii is valid utf8 though
<slangasek> so the problem seems to be with passing something in that's not really a C string
<bddebian> Does it bomb or just throw warnings?
<slangasek> throw warnings
<slangasek> but there's also garbage on the window
<bddebian> :-(
<slangasek> wouldn't the easy way of this to just be to kill the jmdlx package and say "Qt and aalib are good enough"?
<bddebian> would work for me :-)
<slangasek> I mean, yeesh, all it does is render a juggling stick figure
<bddebian> Still have newpki-client and ctsim though.  I've talked to the ctsim developer/maintainer and he isn't to keen on switching :-(
<bddebian> Anyway, I have to get my fat arse to bed.  Thanks for looking at that!  Would you mind passing along what you changed?
<StevenK> slangasek: I wonder if I could convince to fix bug 180274 ...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180274 in bluez-libs "Please sync bluez-libs (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180274
<bddebian> Uh oh, wife is up now
<StevenK> convince you, even
<persia> slangasek: Thanks ever so much for a sane solution for jmdx :)
<slangasek> persia: I'm not convinced that the saner solution wouldn't have been to punt the package... :)
<persia> slangasek: I'd agree with that, but don't really want to carry extra deviation if we can help it.  With luck, Helmut will apply your patch, and wx2.4 will be that much closer to going away.
<persia> Now if only there was a similarly sane solution for gnue-*
<persia> (and, no, that's not a request.  Those packages are in odd limbo, and are more likely to get tossed than fixed)
<AnAnt> Hello, if I am packaging software, from which the source is in SVN, how should I mention that in the watch file ?
<persia> AnAnt: Can you convince upstream to make a release?
<man-di> AnAnt: watch files dont support SVN
<AnAnt> persia: they put release as jar file
<man-di> would probably I nice feature to have
<man-di> AnAnt: with a version number in jar name?
<persia> man-di: I disagree: snapshots are harder to maintain.
<man-di> persia: in Java-Country thats unfornately a common way we need to go
<persia> man-di: Really?  Upstream releases are that unreliable?  Unfortunate :(
<AnAnt> man-di: I don't remember ? but the jar has binary, the java source code is in SVN
<man-di> persia: some upstreams release only binary builds
<persia> man-di: Hmm.  Can they not be educated (with a stick, if necessary)?
<man-di> persia: I tried with electro shocks for some...and failed
<man-di> persia: normal answer: You dont need the source, use our binary build
<persia> AnAnt: There's some guidelines on using get-orig-source to pull from VCS at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-4bb01b3c07548aaf98e85ac7eb7983e632f8eb38, but not much a watch file can do :(
<persia> man-di: Right.  Lovely.  Definitely the right spirit.  I suppose they'd object to maintaining a set of source tarballs for each release in a LP project?
<man-di> AnAnt: if the jar has a version number in its name you can at least match the binary jar to notify you when new release was made
<man-di> persia: too much work for them
<man-di> persia: they press some button in their development IDE and *whoops* they have a binary jar release
<persia> man-di: Hmm.  It's usually a two or three line script.  Oh well.
<man-di> persia: thats all they wanna do
<white> Fujitsu: are you coming to the debian miniconf?
<AnAnt> man-di: hmm, look, the software is josm
<persia> man-di: Have we filed bugs against eclipse and netbeans to generate source tar.gz files as part of the same click?
<man-di> speaking as a Java coder: most Java coders have no clue
<man-di> AnAnt: I looked at josm some time ago...and cried out loud
<man-di> persia: hehe
<AnAnt> man-di: http://josm.openstreetmap.de, and I am actually making a package for the nightly build, which they say that it is stable
<man-di> persia: that would be neat
<AnAnt> man-di: cried out loud for what ?
<persia> man-di: Even if they were distro-local patches, it would help in some cases, and pushing upstream makes everyone's life easier :)
<man-di> AnAnt: because it didnt work with free runtimes
<man-di> persia: most java upstreams know only windows
<persia> man-di: What do they use for IDE?
<man-di> persia: most people use Eclipse, Netbeans, JBuilder, IntelliJ
 * persia used TogetherJ and NetBeans back when a Windows & OS/400 Java developer
<AnAnt> man-di: free runtimes ?
<AnAnt> man-di: all the jar files they depend on are GPL'ed
<man-di> AnAnt: GCJ and all classpath based runtimes
<AnAnt> man-di: they only require sun java
<man-di> AnAnt: thats the problem
<persia> AnAnt: Does it work with icedtea?
<AnAnt> man-di: I think they are doing a version for that (I saw that icedtea in their SVN log)
<AnAnt> persia: I think they are doing a version for that (I saw that icedtea in their SVN log)
<persia> AnAnt: I read all the rows :)
<AnAnt> ok
<man-di> AnAnt: thats nice but GCJ would be better
<persia> AnAnt: More generally, if you can get it to work with icedtea, we'd consider it free in Ubuntu, but having it work with gcj would be vastly superior, as it could also be free in Debian.
<AnAnt> but, is there a problem if I made the package Depend & Build-Depend on sun java jdk ?
<persia> AnAnt: It goes in multiverse
<man-di> AnAnt: it depends on non-free software then (and this software is not portable)
<AnAnt> man-di: so in Debian too it would be i non-free, right ?
<man-di> contrib
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> does Debian consider icedtea free ?
<man-di> if all code is GPL
<man-di> debian has icedtea yet
<man-di> has *no* icedtea yet
<AnAnt> so to use icedtea, I should do: update-java-alternatives -s <what> ?
<AnAnt> man-di: oh yes, indeed, they don't
<man-di> AnAnt: No, use JAVA_HOME=.....something....
<persia> AnAnt: purge sun java, install icedtea.  Better, use sbuild or pbuilder, and set your build dependencies.
<man-di> AnAnt: for building I mean
<AnAnt> yes, I use pbuilder indeed
<AnAnt> I think i'll use sun java, it worked like that
<persia> AnAnt: That makes it multiverse, which is not preferred.  Please at least give it a try.
<AnAnt> persia: I want to put the package in Debian too
<persia> man-di: Is icedtea in plan for Debian, or is it waiting for the "official" source release?
<AnAnt> man-di: ok, I have a question, if a package is built with icedtea jdk, would it work with sun java jre ? and vice versa ?
<man-di> persia: we want to use the same source package as for Ubuntu
<man-di> AnAnt: it should
<bucatoamano> kubuntu channel operator has said me here i can get help, i am not good enoght to do a debian package for my application http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=652843
<persia> man-di: Is the current Ubuntu source not DFSG free?  Should I be reading debian-devel-java@ archives?
<bucatoamano> so if someone is interested to do it :) let me know
<man-di> persia: it ist afaik
<persia> bucatoamano: We would help you package it if you had questions, but we don't take packaging requests.
<bucatoamano> ok
<persia> man-di: That's what I thought from looking.  I'm not sure why it was in universe.
<AnAnt> persia: ok, I have another question, the latest release is josm-1.5, yet I am packaging the nightly build, which according to the website is also stable (but not a release), so how should I version it ? 1.6r<svn release #> or what ?
<AnAnt> icedtea is in universe ?
<persia> bucatoamano: If you'd like to make a packaging request, put a tar.gz somewhere as part of an upstream project, and file a bug against "Ubuntu" (no source package) with the "needs-packaging" tag.
<man-di> persia: AFAIK (I may be wrong) its in universe because GCJ is the default runtime in Ubuntu and one Java runtime in main is enough
<persia> bucatoamano: The bug should have a short description of the package, a link to the upstream project homepage, and a small advertisement to interest one of the packagers.
<persia> man-di: I meant universe vs. multiverse :)
<man-di> persia: I'm a lazy Debian-man so I dont know for real
<man-di> persia: ah
<man-di> persia: I think its just that we dont uploaded it yet, I needs some adjustments, Ubuntu and Debian are more different then one would expect
<persia> AnAnt: I like to grab 1.5 and apply the additional changes as patches in most cases, as this tends to cause less end-user confusion.  If you want, 1.6~svnyyyymmdd is the common construction for snapshots just before release, and 1.5+svnyyyymmdd is the common construction for snapshots when there is not a near upcoming release.
<AnAnt> ok
<persia> man-di: Depends on expectations :)  I think of them as fairly different, despite sharing >95% of source.
<man-di> persia: the lest 5% is that what makes it complicated anf big packages like icedtea hit that problems easily
<persia> man-di: Yep.  It doesn't help that that 5% tends to be things like the kernel, libc, etc. :)
<man-di> persia: e.g. there is libgif-dev vs. libungif-dev
<AnAnt> ok I think there is a problem in ubuntu's java virtual packages
<persia> man-di: I thought that transition was happening for both.
<AnAnt> ok I think there is a problem in ubuntu's java virtual packages , java-compiler, java-virtual-machine, java-runtime,...
<man-di> persia: last I looked at it we needed one for Ubuntu and the other for Debian
<AnAnt> none of them depend on icedtea
<man-di> AnAnt: they are virtual pacakges
<AnAnt> oops sorry
<man-di> AnAnt: and provided by some packages
<persia> Official word is from comparing bug #174252 with Debian bug #410287.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174252
<ubotu> Debian bug 410287 in mirrors "mirror submission for debian.mirror.web4u.cz" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/410287
<man-di> AnAnt: for Build-Depends use real package names, not virtual packages, please
<AnAnt> java2-runtime depends on icedtea, bad me !
<persia> Errr.   Debian bug #401287
<ubotu> Debian bug 401287 in libgif4 "libungif to libgif transition" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/401287
<AnAnt> man-di: 1. why ? 2. how about in Depends ?
<man-di> AnAnt: to get reproducible builds, for Depends use "real package | virtual package"
<persia> man-di: Looks like any variance there is just a matter of transition schedules.  libgif is the future.
<man-di> persia: firefox-dev was another issue, sure, all are transitions in action but the problem is that big packages that you wanna keep in sync on both distros always hit some transition-in-the-works
<persia> man-di: Well, yes.  Dktrkranz is working on a tool that parses rene output and generates a nice transition tracker web page.  Should help everyone.
<slangasek> StevenK: 180274> on Monday when I'm on archive duty, or at very least, tomorrow when I can pretend to be awake and don't have to fight off typos like "tomowwor"
<AnAnt> hmm, I think java-* virtual packages should depend on java[12]-* virtual packages
<Fujitsu> white: Regrettably not. The family has decided that we must go on holiday - I can't attend LCA at all.
<white> bah
<AnAnt> man-di: they support IcedTea since October
<Fujitsu> white: I concur.
 * persia notes that MOTU SWAT may want to examine bugs subscribed to the security team to pull several universe bugs that are being filed around now
<white> Hobbsee: what about catching up now?
<white> Hobbsee: do you have my Australian mobile number?
<Hobbsee> white: i don't think i do
<Hobbsee> white: 9th or so is good, though
<white> Hobbsee: you got mail
<white> 8th or 9th would be good
<Hobbsee> cool, OK
<white> i forgot to write an email to the sydney ml, but if you know anyone, just bring them along ;)
<Hobbsee> i don't.  i suggest you email them
<Hobbsee> well, i know of some, but only on irc, etc
<white> well who is there?
<white> btw can anyone reproduce http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=203777 ?
<ubotu> bugs.gentoo.org bug 203777 in Vulnerabilities "dev-libs/libcdio < 0.78.2-r2 Buffer overflow via long filename in Joliet (CVE-2007-6613)" [Normal,Assigned]
 * persia notes that it is a very good idea to subscribe to a bug when posting a debdiff.
<white> Hobbsee: got my phone number?
<Hobbsee> white: yes
<white> good :)
<white> Hobbsee: i'll read mail until tomorrow/sunday and then leave Germany, so either mail me place/time or call me on tuesday, when I am in .au :)
<Hobbsee> ok
<ChrisGibbs> Gday all
<Hobbsee> heya ChrisGibbs
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibbs: fancy going south and getting your key signed?  white is looking for people to meet
<ChrisGibbs> when?
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibbs: wednesday
<mruiz> hi all
<ChrisGibbs> Hobbsee: Soz to plead ignorant but "key signed" ???
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibbs: do you have a gpg key yet?
<Hobbsee> !gpg
<ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
<ChrisGibbs> Hobbsee: nope haven't bothered yet
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibbs: ahh. you'll need it for packaging
<ChrisGibbs> Hobsee: Think i came in 1/2 way through a conversation.... looks like i will half to catch up :)
<AnAnt> Hello, if the copyright holder be someone other than the author, should that holder be some company (as Canonical?) or could it be some group (that is not actually a company)
<persia> AnAnt: When a work is created, copyright is held by the author.  In some cases, the author may choose to assign copyright to someone else (another person or some corporate entity (whether registered with a government or not)).
<AnAnt> persia: yeah, could that someone else be some group, which is not a corporate entity ?
<persia> Once copyright is assigned, the assignee becomes responsible for licensing.  In general, except in work-for-hire situations, it is best for the author to either retain copyright, or assign to some party holding copyright for a larger work for which the creation under consideration is but one part.
<mruiz> MOTU Q&A today ?
<persia> AnAnt: "corporate entity" means any group of persons that carries an individual identity.  Most nation states allow registration of selected corporate entites, which entitles registered entities to many of the rights of natural persons, but unregistered entities are acceptable for copyright ownership, so long as there is a well defined identity (although most nation states do not honor protection of principles from liability claims in such cases)
<man-di> AnAnt: in US law it can afaik be anyone
<persia> man-di: Not just US.  Applies to all signatories of the Berne convention.
<man-di> AnAnt: in german law the assignment issue is a bit more cimplicated
<persia> mruiz: Holiday break, but ask a question here, if you like.
<persia> man-di: Do you need confirmation from the assignee to assign copyright in Germany?
<mruiz> persia, I do
<man-di> persia: the german law doesnt know copyright assignment
<persia> man-di: Even for work-for-hire?
<man-di> persia: depends
<man-di> I'm no lawyer
<AnAnt> what a complex issue
<persia> AnAnt: What are you trying to accomplish.  While none of us is your counsel, we can probably point to a similar case that might be a way to resolve your need.
<persia> ?
 * persia notes that several major German companies appear to assert copyright over the content on their website, and thinks German copyright must be complex indeed.
<AnAnt> persia: well, we are doing a distro based on ubuntu, called "Ubuntu ME", so some of us did some artwork packages
<AnAnt> persia: we are not a company, we are just some people on a mailing list
<AnAnt> persia: anyways, I am doing the packaging
<mruiz> persia, full interdiff uploaded ;-)
<AnAnt> persia: so I dunno wether to set the copyright holder to the named persons who did the work, or what
<AnAnt> persia: so I dunno wether to set the copyright holder to the authors, or what
<persia> AnAnt: OK.  There are three simple ways to address that.  1) list the individual copyright holders in debian/copyright, 2) have all the individual copyright holders agree there is a "Ubuntu ME team", and assign copyright to the team (yes, this is questionable in some jurisdictions, but if all the individuals continue to agree, there will be no problem: see earlier note about liability protection), 3) register your team with some nation state.
<persia> #1 is the common solution (it's easiest)
<persia> mruiz: Why tell me?  Better to get the status, assignment, and subscriptions correct :)
<mruiz> persia, as you did the last comment... status, assignment and subscription are ok ... ;-)
<ChrisGibbs> Hobbsee: Soz got booted from server, what were you saying b4 about meeting up with white?
<persia> mruiz: Sure, but I usually process the queue in one or two swipes a day.  Someone else will likely upload it.
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibbs: meeting.  wednesday probably.  sign keys, which you'll need for doing anything packaging based, bzr based, etc.  lunch or dinner - unsure which.
<ChrisGibbs> Hobbsee: hmmm i have to work on Wednesday, i will ask on Mon if i can score an RDO
<Hobbsee> cool
<white> ChrisGibbs: beersigning yeaaaaaaah :)
<mruiz> persia, I know... that's the idea: interaction with the entire team :-)
<persia> Bah!  packages.qa.d.o doesn't report contrib/ and non-free/ anymore !
<AnAnt> I did an upload to REVU 15 minutes ago, yet I can't see it on REVU's website
<persia> AnAnt: which package?
<mruiz> I was working on a watch file fix (bug 180113) but UEHS doesn't list the package (gnustep-ppd) anymore and my contribution isn't uploaded yet. Any idea?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180113 in gnustep-ppd "Debian watch file doesn't work" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180113
<AnAnt> persia: usplash-theme-ubuntume
<persia> mruiz: Interesting.  Does the old watchfile work again for some reason?
<mruiz> persia, let me check...
<persia> AnAnt: I don't see it in either the upload queue or the rejected queue.
<mruiz> persia, I got the same error
<persia> AnAnt: I do see http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=usplash-theme-ubuntume however, so I'm guessing you hit just the wrong timing :)
<persia> mruiz: In that case, I'd recommend reporting that you can still reproduce the bug, and that your patch still fixes it, and resubmitting to the sponsors queue.  On the other hand, I don't understand why this package was in UEHS anyway: it looks like a sync from Debian, in which case the watch file is better submitted to Debian.
<mruiz> many patches work in Debian... how is the procedure to submit them ?
<persia> mruiz: The reason we don't include packages from Debian in UEHS is that we rely on the Debian maintainers for the updates in most cases.  When we get enough hands to be able to keep everything in UEHS up to date, maybe chasing those will be more interesting.  There is one exception: we do include orphaned packages in UEHS, but that is only because there is no Debian maintainer: if it is maintained, we don't want to update without a good reason.
<AnAnt> persia: meaning what?
<persia> mruiz: To submit bugs to debian, first test on Debian (chroots and VMs are popular).  If you can reproduce, you file a bug in the BTS by sending mail.  http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting provides an overview of the process.
<AnAnt> persia: so I should just re-upload ?
<AnAnt> persia: isn't REVU on revu.tauware.de ?
<persia> AnAnt: Assuming you are talking about "a good reason", that being it includes some new feature or bugfix that a member of ubuntu-dev believes will improve the next release sufficiently to be worth possibly having different tarballs from the Debian update.
<persia> AnAnt: It's already uploaded, no?  Also, REVU works at both sites: same machine, different names.
<AnAnt> persia: how do I know that it is uploaded ?
<persia> AnAnt: You see the page with your upload (from the URL I provided above).
<AnAnt> persia: ah, ok, it's on REVU now, thanks
<AnAnt> ok, can anyone please review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=usplash-theme-ubuntume ?
<persia> mruiz: Only one of debdiff or interdiff is required.  Debdiff when the orig.tar.gz is unchanged, and interdiff when it is changed.  Native packages always get only a debdiff.
<slytherin> Wow, multiverse FTBFS almost reduced to zero. :-)
 * mruiz writes persia's comments
<mruiz> I need some guidance with the bug 180131, please
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180131 in gshutdown "Debian watch file doesn't work" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180131
<slytherin> mruiz: what help do you need?
<vorian> mruiz: If I understand correctly, the scan should only see released sources, not release candidates.
<slytherin> mruiz: I think the problem is with upstream versioning. In Debian/Ubuntu terms 2rc > 2
<mruiz> vorian, interesting...
<vorian> mruiz: if you only use (*.) the scan will produce results for anything that follows the program-
<slytherin> A little help please. if a package is split with one of the package being -common, where should .desktop file go?
<zul> morning
<nenolod> mruiz, hehe. sorry for any misunderstanding about audacious{-plugins}. i had done the bump in debian, so it was easy for me to just quickly make a debdiff for those bumps.
<mruiz> nenolod, no worries ;-)
 * nenolod wanted to wait for upse to get built first before bumping audacious
<nenolod> mruiz, at any rate, not yet a MOTU, so can't upload the bump
<nenolod> ;)
<mruiz> vorian, the correct syntax is (.*) ;-)
<vorian> mruiz: normally yes
<vorian> but if you had a package-1.1 and package-dev and package-editor, uscan would download the latest version of the three
<mruiz> vorian, we are talking about versions
<joejaxx> !checkinstall
<ubotu> checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> checkinstall was best when it segfauted.
<zul> checkinstall is never ever best
<Hobbsee> zul: excluding when it segfaulted.  that was a really nice touch.
<warp10> When I fix a bug in Ubuntu and want to send it back to Debian, what's best to do, sending the whole debdiff or just the patch to the source code?
<white> warp10: send the patch, if you do not want to NMU
<warp10> white: and they will take care of changelog, control, etc., right? Ok, thank you!
<white> warp10: if you changed something in debian/control, like dependencies or so, then it is part of the patch :)
<white> warp10: you are normally acknowledged in the changelog with "Thanks to ...", if you provide a patch for a bug
<warp10> white: well, sure! But I have no changes in control, this time. :)
<geser> warp10: if you forward the patch towards Debian, could you also tag it (for the stats)? see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging
<warp10> geser: I was just looking at it. Looks like I should add origin-ubuntu, ubuntu-patch and hardy
<warp10> When reporting the bug to Debian, is it a good idea to add a link to the report on LP, too?
<white> yes, can't hurt
<\sh> moins
<martoss> hi all, can anyone point me on documentation how-to package python applications distributed with distutils ( installs with setup.py )?
<martoss> I've looked throug the wiki section and the links there, but the only option seems to me to manually edit the rules file.
<azeem> which rules file?
<martoss> in debian/
<azeem> as in, how do you generate rules in the first place?
<martoss> i can do this via dh_make but this is probably a stupid way
<martoss> since dh_make is meant to package ./configure make make install packages.
<mattva01> why do I get this  error in soyuz :dpkg-source: error: Files field contains invalid filename `apjava_1.0.0.-1ubuntu1.tar.gz'
<martoss> ".-" is this ok?
<mattva01> oh ah
<RainCT> martoss: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<RainCT> martoss: the "CDBS + distutils" section explains the easiest way
<martoss> ah ok, thx
<RainCT> btw, if you don't get answers about Python here you might have more luck in #debian-python (server irc.oftc.net)
<RainCT> np
<martoss> ok, i think i will try it out. Is there some interest of including the package (eric4) in the repos?
<\sh> martoss: eric4 as in python-qt/kde4 ideÃ
<\sh> ?
<martoss> yep, the IDE
<martoss> currently it depends from qscintilla (which i compiled and installed from the debian source package from unstable)
<\sh> and on pykde4 i hope ,-)
<martoss> nope, it should only depend on pyqt4 not pykde4
<\sh> martoss: yeah...would you like to talk to torsten marek, the debian maintainer of eric3
<\sh> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=shlomme@debian.org
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hello. could someone please sponsor avidemux 2.4? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avidemux/+bug/178845
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178845 in avidemux "Avidemux 2.4" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<martoss> ah ok, i can ask him, if he intends to package eric4, I am also fine with this :-)
<\sh> martoss: just work with him on that...I think he likes to have some help
<warp10> Please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tennix , a cute little tennis game.  The comments of the last reviewers have been addressed, and it is waiting for it's first advocacy.
<white> TheMuso: come to the beersigning event ;)
<Adri2000> warp10: I really like this game! :) I'll try to take a look at it (the package). but I see it's already in debian pkg-games svn. do you know what's the status of it? why not try to get it in debian first?
<warp10> Adri2000: the package in debian is stuck from weeks and is based on a previous release. My one will be sponsored into debian by my mentor (pitti) in the next days. And, yes... it's very addictive! :D
<Kmos> Adri2000: the status is down.. i've uploaded it to debian games svn
<Kmos> anyone touch in it.. and not interested in release it in debian
<Adri2000> warp10: so you are not going to maintain it with the pkg-games team?
<totopalma> ui, hi :)
<warp10> Adri2000: I think so, altough I haven't discussed about it with pitti: we focused on packaging errors.
<white> !info venkman hardy
<ubotu> Package venkman does not exist in hardy
<white> bah
<white> ubotu: learn source packages damnit
<Adri2000> warp10: ok, then you should take over the itp and update the package in svn
<white> !info mozilla-venkman hardy
<ubotu> mozilla-venkman: Javascript debugger for Mozilla based applications. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.87.2-1ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 225 kB, installed size 1444 kB
<white> !info mozilla-venkman gutsy
<ubotu> mozilla-venkman: Javascript debugger for Mozilla based applications. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.87-6ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 221 kB, installed size 1452 kB
<warp10> Adri2000: taking over the ITP? How should I do that?
<white> !info mozilla-venkman feisty
<ubotu> mozilla-venkman: Javascript debugger for Mozilla based applications. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.87-6ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 221 kB, installed size 1452 kB
<white> !info mozilla-venkman dapper
<ubotu> mozilla-venkman: Javascript debugger for Mozilla and Firefox. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.85-4 (dapper), package size 260 kB, installed size 472 kB
<Adri2000> warp10: change the owner of the bug
<Adri2000> and add a comment saying you're working on it
<warp10> Adri2000: great. Ok. I'll do that. And will take care of svn too :)
<Kmos> i think I own that ITP :)
<Kmos> lol
<Kmos> warp10: feel free to change it
<warp10> Kmos: Ok, ty :)
<white> i assume that #456520 is fixed in the venkman version in universe?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could someone please sponsor avidemux 2.4? bug #178845
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178845 in avidemux "Avidemux 2.4" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178845
<Adri2000> warp10: where do you see the SDLMain.* is LGPL?
<warp10> Adri2000: I asked upstream, and upstream asked to SDLMain's authors. I got the email in CC
<Kopfgeldjaeger> so no sponsor here :(
<Adri2000> warp10: hmm ok
<Adri2000> warp10: you're closing the wrong bug report (the duplicate)
<warp10> Adri2000: ouch! too bad :-S Ok, I'll upload it again
<Adri2000> warp10: I'm not sure you want to have the version in the man page, because you'll need to update it at each new version
<warp10> Adri2000: it has been added by upstream. I drafted the manpage, he reviewed it. Since he will add it to future releases, probably he is fine with that
<Adri2000> ah ok, good then
<warp10> I had a connection trouble while uploading to revu. Now I can't upload anything, even with -f. Any revu admin here?
<Adri2000> warp10: (not me). I suppose you test-built in a hardy pbuilder? I'm having problems with mine right now and can only test in a gutsy one
<warp10> Adri2000: I tested, of course: it builds fine
<Adri2000> warp10: for your revu problem, you need one of sistpoty,hobbsee,siretart,pkern
<warp10> Adri2000: I'm trying again. Looks like he is uploading now.
<warp10> Adri2000: good: my last upload is shown in tennix page, now
 * persia notes there is a MOTU Meeting starting in #ubuntu-meeting now (and apologises for the lack of the usual 5-10 minute notice)
<Adri2000> warp10: do you know what's the license of data/* ?
<crevette> hello
<DaveMorris> binaries for programs are installed to /usr/bin aren't they?
<crevette> is there a way to patch a source to replace binary resources (in my case pixmaps)
<soren> crevette: Usually, that's achieved by providing a uuencoded replacement and uudecoding it during build.
<crevette> soren: do you have a link which explain how to do ?
<soren> crevette: Not off the top of my head, no. I'm sure it's on the wiki somewhere.
<soren> It's not that hard, though.
<soren> You create the uuencoded version, add sharutils as a build-dependency, and hook into the build: target in debian/rules
 * persia notes that uudecode should be called in build: and rm in clean: when adding icons and the like
<persia> Ubulette: If you have license to redistribute, include them.  If not, you can't.  If you want the original favicon.ico files, contact the websites and ask permission to redistribute.
<warp10> Adri2000: sorry for late answer, I was AFK. All files in data/ are under GPL2, they have been made by the author (except  audio take from Melodyloops, as stated in debian/copyright)
<Ubulette> persia, problem is prism already contains icons, they were shipped by mozilla, not sure if they asked or not. So i'm holding back prism-webapps for now.
<persia> Ubulette: Did the Mozilla Foundation extend you a license to redistribute?  If so, it's their bother (but always good to check).
<Ubulette> persia, i've filed a bug upstream against the prism package because there's no mention of anything for that
<persia> Ubulette: By "no mention", do you mean "no license to redistribute" or "no discussion of licensing terms between upstream websites and the Mozilla Foundation"?
<Ubulette> but the problem remains for any webapp.. the icon is supposed to represent the web site (ie the application)
<Ubulette> persia, nothing at all, icons are just shipped
<persia> Ubulette: What are the redistribution terms of the tarball in which they are shipped?
<Ubulette> even tricker, they are bundled into .webapp files
<Ubulette> triple licenced GPL / LPGP / MPL
<Ubulette> (LGPL)
<persia> Right, so any of those licenses permit redistribution, so we're safe to redistribute for prism (although your upstream bug is a good check).
<Ubulette> 2 / 2.1 / 1.2 respectively
<persia> For prism-webapps, you are upstream, so it becomes your responsibility to contact the websites concerned and secure redistribution rights for the icons, so you can then license them to the rest of us as GPL (or whatever).
<Ubulette> yep, that's what I expected.
 * persia points out bug #180388 to those interested in Malone sponsoring workflow
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180388 in malone "Please add status "patched" in bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180388
 * persia requests that people not include "debian/changelog: re-added Ubuntu entries" in the remaining Ubuntu changes section of the changelog.  While this is essential retention, it is not worthy of comment.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> any sponsor here?
<\sh> persia: add it to the motu rules ;) (Re: uudecode in build and rm in clean)
<persia> \sh: Where?  I thought that was just standard practice.
<\sh> persia: seems not if you noticed it ;)
<persia> \sh: Just expanding on the advice previously given :)
<\sh> persia: :)
<mok0> happy new year folks!
<LaserJock> oh darn, did I miss the MOTU meeting?
<stgraber> yep
<LaserJock> grrr :(
 * ScottK too.
<ScottK> It'd be nice if someone would mention meetings starting here if they remember it.
<LaserJock> yeah
<DaveMorris> I'm looking for someone to revu my small package - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<geser> LaserJock, ScottK: I looked at my scroll-back for #ubuntu-meeting and the only topic was time and date for the next meeting
<LaserJock> darn
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<LaserJock> my new laptop has some keyboard ... oddities
<nenolod> thoughts on multiverse/flashplugin-nonfree: there's an extension (open source) available for this which allows for direct integration with pulseaudio
<nenolod> we should package this up and add a recommends to flashplugin-nonfree
<nenolod> (unless this has been done already, then just ignore me ;))
<TheMuso> nenolod: I like the sound of that.
<stgraber> nenolod: libflashsupport ?
<stgraber> uploaded to hardy/universe recently
<warp10> persia: may I request the sync for torcs (whose you are the last uploader)?
<nenolod> stgraber, yeah
<nenolod> stgraber, flashplugin-nonfree should depend on it, and it should build an amd64 variant using ia32-libs-dev if it does not already :)
<nenolod> s/depend/recommends/
<persia> warp10: Please don't.  The last Debian update doesn't actually fix the openAL issue.  I'm working on a new upstream openAL, and have yet to determine if I care about the try/catch patch.
<warp10> persia: ah, ok. I didn't know about that. :)
<persia> warp10: Of course, if there's an even newer torcs of which I am yet unaware, and you can't get it to crash by selecting the openAL audio output and breaking openAL, then by all means, please sync :)
<\sh>  fontforge: Depends: libgif4 (>= 4.1.4) but it is not going to be installed yay
<warp10> persia: well, I don't think so :)
<warp10> Adri2000: thank you for your advocacy :)
<persia> \sh: It's just waiting for everything else to not use libungif.  Additional patches for additional affected packages to bug #174252 are welcome.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174252
<\sh> persia: well, who is  Ilya Eremin <che_guevara_3@bk.ru>?
<\sh> and who sponsored the upload of fontforge (0.0.20071110-1build2) hardy; urgency=low
<\sh> when debian/control is diffing against debian?
<\sh> it should be ubuntu not build
<persia> \sh: Check the signature on the .dsc and https://launchpad.net/~che-guevara-3
<persia> \sh: If there were changes outside of changelog for an -XbuildY revision, please upload an -XubuntuY candidate to fix this.
<Fujitsu> Both build1 and build2 contain changes.
<Fujitsu> How strange.
<\sh> Fujitsu: correct
<\sh> persia: hell, I can't upload :)
<LaserJock> do we have an easy way to check who signed an upload?
<persia> \sh: You can propose a candidate.  Do your candidates ever get rejected?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I look at -changes.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: but how to you figure out who signed?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: gpg --verify *.changes
 * TheMuso uses mutt and tracks -changes, and only needs to execute a command in mutt to show who signed the upload.
<Fujitsu> Or use your favourite MUA's GnuPG feature.
<LaserJock> ah
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: exactly.
<\sh> persia: well, I'm fighting right now with wine (after that I can propose a debdiff for fixing the stuff)
<persia> \sh: Understood.  Thanks.
 * nenolod works on libflashplugin-nonfree recommends: patch
<nenolod> utoh.
<nenolod> libflashsupport provides 64-bits package on amd64
 * nenolod fixes that first ;)
<TheMuso> nenolod: You think thats wise?
<TheMuso> nenolod: If only a 32-bit ver is available, it may not work with pulseaudio, depending on how it communicates with pulse in the first place.
<TheMuso> on amd64.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: meh, I can't get evolution to do it yet. I'll have to dig around
<persia> LaserJock: If you've the evo dependencies installed, copy & paste from the archive to gedit, and use the Edit/Verify menu item.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I thought Evo did OpenPGP by default.
 * persia still likes gpg --verify *.dsc
<Fujitsu> Look down the bottom of the message.
<TheMuso> nenolod: It seems that libflashsupport links directly against pulseaudio.
<TheMuso> How do you propose making a 32-bit only version of libflashsupport to work with the 64-bit pulseaudio?
<LaserJock> well, it opens the signiture if you have it in your keyring
<LaserJock> but it complains that it can't find the key if you don't
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Doesn't it ask if you want to grab the key?
<LaserJock> no
<geser> \sh: Hobbsee sponsored the last fontforge upload
<persia> LaserJock: It also gives you the keyid if you don't, and you can ask a keyserver about the owner
<LaserJock> yeah, that's a lot of work to just find who signed the stupid thing ;-)
<TheMuso> nenolod: At the least, you want to prevent it building on powerpc/sparc/ia64/hppa
<Fujitsu> Do we want to add the remaining 54 source packages with binaries depending on libungif4g to the bug?
<\sh> geser: well..somehow it's not build .. the binary is still pointing to libungif
<persia> Fujitsu: Makes sense.  killing libungif is a target for hardy, but it's not NBS yet, for various complicated reasons.
<Fujitsu> That's going to be one massive bug.
<geser> LaserJock: there aren't that many people doing sponsoring, so you would have all needed keys in your keyring soon
<persia> This is why we typically use NBS for transitions rather than Malone, but better one massive bug than lots of little issues without proper tracking.
<LaserJock> geser: true
<geser> \sh: fontforge DEPWAITS on libspiro-dev
<LaserJock> \o/, I killed seahorse
<TheMuso> geser: Not any more.
<nenolod> TheMuso, yes
<nenolod> TheMuso, i'm working on it
<TheMuso> nenolod: Ok.
<geser> TheMuso: I should update the ftbfs page more often :)
<nenolod> TheMuso, as far as pulse goes, 32-bit pulse lib works with 64-bit server
<TheMuso> nenolod: Um, but thats still a problem.
<nenolod> TheMuso, how so?
<TheMuso> nenolod: As the 32-bit flash, will be using a 32-bit lib to try and talk to a 64-bit lib.
<persia> nenolod: Are you going to need to stuff yet another package into ia32-libs, just after the recent upload?
<nenolod> TheMuso, yeah. i'm working on that.
<TheMuso> persia: My point exactly.
<nenolod> persia, no.
<nenolod> as far as i know there is a 32 bit pulse lib in ia64-libs.
<persia> TheMuso: As long as it's done by message-passing-abstraction, it oughtn't be an issue.  Same reason flash works with ai32-libs in the first place.
<nenolod> haha cool. gnome-panel just crashed.
<TheMuso> persia: Well at the least, it needs testing.
 * nenolod uses apport to automatically file a bug.
<persia> TheMuso: Absolutely.
<nenolod> TheMuso, at the moment, libflashsupport does not work at all on amd64.
<persia> nenolod: Does that not happen multiple times a day for you?  I thought it was just the nature of hardy.
<nenolod> no
<nenolod> first time it has done it for me ;)
<TheMuso> nenolod: Right, just like its useless on the other aches I mentioned.
<TheMuso> arches
<nenolod> TheMuso, yeah. i already fixed Architectures:
 * persia decides to actually look at the apport report and maybe file a bug for the next crash
<nenolod> well
<nenolod> i may have defective RAM or something (i just replaced it)
<nenolod> neat
<nenolod> firefox is crashing
<Fujitsu> Does anyone here know why there is only a small fraction of the libungif4g rdepends already on the bug?
<persia> Fujitsu: Maybe mostly main?
<Fujitsu> There were only 3 or 4 in main, I believe.
<persia> No idea then.  Maybe it's like the Update Maintainer Field bug, where new tasks only get added when someone plans to work on them.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-01-05
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I seem to be having a problem with apt-mirror. The error I get is: http://www.pastebin.ca/841988  My mirror.list file is: http://www.pastebin.ca/841990
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: s/pub2/pub/?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Its the way tinternode have their setup.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: if you go to the site, ftp://mirror.internode.on.net/pub2/ubuntu/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/multiverse/sources you will see the files do exist.
<TheMuso> well, not entirely right but you get the idea
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: As it is, either pub or pub2 works.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: pub2 doesn't seem to be visible from the outside.
<TheMuso> Hrm.
<TheMuso> Well it works for me.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ion_> Hi
<bddebian> Hello ion_
<zul> gday
<TheMuso> Hey zul.
<zul> hey TheMuso how goes it?
<TheMuso> zul: Well thanks. Yourself?
<zul> good a bit tired though
<brandonperry> so, if I wanted to deb up bkhive and samdump2, where is a good place to look
<brandonperry> ?
<brandonperry> look to learn how
<Fujitsu> !packagingguide | brandonperry
<ubotu> brandonperry: packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<brandonperry> danke
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: how's it going?
<bddebian> Same as always.  You?
<LaserJock> similar
<zul> hey laserjock
<LaserJock> trying to get my new laptop going well
<nenolod> cool
<nenolod> apparently my ram is ok as nothing else crashed :D
<nenolod> brb. restart.
<nenolod> firefox somehow screwed over memory management. i guess i'll need to file a bug about that.
<nenolod> anyway
<nenolod> back to making libflashsupport useful on amd64.
<crimsun> make sure you're basing off Debian's flashplugin-nonfree-pulse tree.
<LaserJock> has there been any more discussion about flash SRUs?
<nenolod> crimsun, i'm just fixing libflashsupport in universe
<nenolod> also
<nenolod> i think the gnome-panel crash has to do with gtk
<crimsun> ah crap
<crimsun> we really should gut libflashsupport in favor of Debian's flashplugin-nonfree-pulse
<ion_> Are the based on the same code, or something completely different?
<crimsun> same code, essentially
<TheMuso> But for syncing reasons, it makes sense to use Debian as a base.
<crimsun> I think CJ ripped out everything not related to flash+pulse, though
<nenolod> crimsun, i agree
<TheMuso> And maintenance reasons
<nenolod> but right now, this gnome-panel crash is annoying me
<crimsun> I'm trying to chase down that rmap.c foo'er
<nenolod> ah. it's happened to someone else? :)
<crimsun> it's been happening for some time
<crimsun> (according to google)
<nenolod> it's the first time it's happened on this machine
<nenolod> i was worried that i bought defective ram :/
<crimsun> are you using kvm?
<nenolod> no
<crimsun> ok, that's a start
<nenolod> but the memory passes memtest86+
<nenolod> (i tested it before putting the memory into production ;))
<nenolod> crimsun, i'll look into flashplugin-nonfree-pulse then
<nenolod> persia, gnome-panel crashes for me when i run pbuilder
<nenolod> persia, so i think it's I/O related, as a lot of files are opened and closed during pbuilder setup
<nenolod> since gtk+ has this retarded "recent files" thing now
<ScottK> crimsun: Would you be available in a bit to upload a source backport for clamav in Feisty?  I did a "bad" thing today and I need to fix an i386 FTBFS.
<persia> nenolod: That matches my experience.  I can replicate with sbuild, but never encountered with working with datasets in lots of little files with total size of twice my available RAM.
<crimsun> ScottK: if it's not huge, yes.
<persia> nenolod: Shouldn't that not track inside a chroot?
<nenolod> persia, it shouldn't track anything outside $HOME in my opinion
 * Fujitsu has noticed gnome-settings-daemon crashing a bit lately, but not gnome-panel.
<ScottK> crimsun: Debdiff should be a new debian/changelog entry and one build-dep change in debian/control
<persia> nenolod: I can't agree with that.  I touch lots of files in /data and in /usr/share/doc that would be handy in "recent files" if I used "recent files".
<nenolod> persia, i don't understand why gtk+ needs to track what files are opened and closed ;)
<nenolod> maybe it's an FD exhaustion thing
<persia> nenolod: "Recent Files" has several uses.  Whether it belongs in gtk+ is a different issue.
<Ng> can a debian/watch file reasonably track the "Download project files" section of a Launchpad project?
<nenolod> persia, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/180463
<crimsun> nenolod: just noticed that's with -2-.  When -3- is bumped (or if you want to try it locally by grabbing and installing manually), can you update the bug report?
<persia> Ng: Should be able to do so.  You might need to do it in screen-scraper mode.
<Ng> persia: hmm
<nenolod> crimsun, gnome-panel?
<nenolod> crimsun, or linux-source
<Fujitsu> Or convince the LP people to give us a nice way to do it ;)
<persia> nenolod: I can't for some reason.  Subscribe me?
<nenolod> ok
 * Fujitsu blinks. Why would that be private?
<crimsun> nenolod: 180461 (linux)
<nenolod> crimsun, ok. will do.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, i don't know. i didn't set it private.
<Ng> I'll have a look tomorrow. I've fixed up enough stuff tonight :)
<nenolod> persia, idle_populate_func() is a function which populates the recent files chooser
<nenolod> persia, i think it's an FD exhaustion issue
<bddebian> persia: Hey!
<persia> nenolod: That might make sense.  I was only working with hundreds of files in my dataset activities, which is significantly less than sbuild.  On the other hand, I only encounter it with some builds: about 40% of the time there is no issue.  I wonder if it might be related to the installation of some of the gtk libraries in the chroot.
<persia> bddebian: Hi!  Noticed zynaddsubfx: are you chasing sound now too?
<bddebian> I'm just chasing my tail, as always :)
<nenolod> crimsun, 180461 didn't happen for me until i increased my memory size in both amd64 machines
<bddebian> persia: Did you see that slangasek fixed jugglemaster?
<nenolod> crimsun, so < 1.5GB seems to not trigger the bug
<persia> bddebian: Yes.  Nice fix too :)
<persia> nenolod: data set size or RAM size?
<nenolod> crimsun, it might also have to do with 32UL apps (flashplugin-nonfree) being used at the same time as 64UL apps.
<LaserJock> persia: you know anything about ubuntu-main-sponsors?
<persia> LaserJock: A little.  What information do you seek?
<nenolod> crimsun, because, the last time, i had a 32UL app going + apport running on gnome-panel and firefox hosed the slab allocator mapping table when apport opened a new tab to start the bug reporting process
<ScottK> crimsun: Would you rather have a debdiff to the current feisty-backports version of clamav or a .dsc link to the entire source package?
<crimsun> ScottK: both, please.
<ScottK> Will do.
<nenolod> crimsun, wish i had more information, but i'm not much of a kernel monkey ;)
<ScottK> I'm test building right now.
<bddebian> persia: Hey, I tried :-(
<persia> bddebian: You did all the heavy lifting.  The final patch is fairly small.
<bddebian> persia: BTW, newpki-client iw freakin' worse than jugglemaster was... :(
<bddebian> s/iw/is/
<LaserJock> persia: well, I just noticed that there are quite a few bugs and wondered if there was somebody looking after it
<LaserJock> I'm guessing dholbach
<crimsun> I can look at u-m-s later tonight
<crimsun> look -> help look*
<persia> LaserJock: Essentially.  Some bugs in queue get hit because the people who watch those packages see them and incorporate the changes.  When things sit for a while, dholbach usually subscribes someone specific, and pokes them.
<nenolod> persia, i have an idea on how to verify that it's a gtk+
<nenolod> persia, one moment ;)
<persia> LaserJock: For packages that aren't "owned", I believe processing is somewhat like UUS, except the lack of unsubscription.  For "owned" packages, best to poke the interested party.
<pochu> Ng: I have this in one of my packages: https://launchpad.net/andvare/+download https://launchpad.net/andvare/(?:.*)/(?:.*)/\+download/andvare-(.*)\.tar\.gz
<nenolod> persia, now i have two apps which should crash
<pochu> Ng: should work for you changing andvare with your project name
<pochu> Ng: (those two links should be in the same line)
<pochu> Night all
<LaserJock> persia: seems a bit scattered
<pochu> stgraber: interesting Minutes btw ;)
<nenolod> hmm. can't trigger it now.
<persia> LaserJock: That it is.  Nobody has ever sorted the culture mix for main.
 * nenolod tries updating his pbuilder
<persia> pochu: There wasn't a lot of activity in the meeting.  See the raw log :)
 * persia should have slept in
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, I've still haven't figured out "ownership" in Main
<crimsun> what ever became of keybuk's suggestion regarding main+universe and seeds?
<nenolod> crimsun, so, you think i should scrap libflashsupport (it's not my package), and instead issue a sync request for flashplugin-nonfree-pulse, and then recommends: on that?
<bddebian> crimsun: We killed him :-)
<ScottK> crimsun: Near as I can tell sabdfl didn't like it and nothing more was said.
<persia> LaserJock: Well, there's several classes of things in main: flavour-specific stuff, kernel stuff, toolchain stuff, startup/shutdown stuff, core libraries, and miscellany.  As I understand it, miscellany is not "owned", and core libraries are typically coordinated with all the rdepends, the others generally have teams that coordinate stuff.
<crimsun> nenolod: I'd ping ogra regarding the availability of http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-pulseaudio/flashplugin-nonfree-pulse;a=summary
<persia> crimsun: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-December/024885.html was the last result (as my further response was ignored)
<LaserJock> persia: right which makes u-m-s a bit pointless
<persia> LaserJock: Well, maybe.  It's hard for people not sure of the details (and some of us who ought be) to determine who gets a package.  U-M-S is a nice way to coordinate the requests for sponsorship, and have the (few) main sponsors ensure the right people are notified about the candidates.
<ScottK2> crimsun: Please see Bug #180466
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180466 in feisty-backports "Latest clamav backport (0.91.2-3ubuntu2.1~feisty1) stuck in dependency wait" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180466
<ScottK2> That has both the debdiff and a link to the .dsc
<nenolod> crimsun, well, that package is i386-only too
 * ScottK2 runs off to get the 4 year old to bed.  Be back in a bit.
<nenolod> crimsun, we need pulse to work on amd64 as well
<crimsun> ok, so we'd just need an addition to the arch line.
<crimsun> flashplugin-nonfree works with the wrapper on amd64, no?
<TheMuso> crimsun: But will that work on amd64?
<nenolod> crimsun, right, but ia32-libs-dev is still all screwed up
<crimsun> still?  even after pitti's upload recently?
<crimsun> granted I didn't check it, just noted it
<nenolod> crimsun, -dev is not in the archive yet AFAIK
<nenolod> nenolod@petrie:~/upkg/libflashsupport/libflashsupport-1.9$ apt-cache search ia32-libs-dev
<nenolod> nenolod@petrie:~/upkg/libflashsupport/libflashsupport-1.9$
<nenolod> synced 1 hour ago
<nenolod> so... can't build-depend on it
<nenolod> so... have to do a bunch of ugly hacks to get it to build with ia32-libs
<nenolod> (which i have a way of doing, but like i said, it's ugly, and i'd rather see a proper solution be realised for building 32UL code in 64UL multilib environment)
<nenolod> the bug requesting ia32-libs-dev is here --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/117131
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117131 in ia32-libs "32bit development libraries missing for amd64 systems systems" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<nenolod> but it's not a big deal
<nenolod> crimsun, i think it'd be better to stay with libflashsupport for now
<nenolod> crimsun, cause people are using OSS4 and such
<SirBob1701> wheres better to join motu launchpad or elsewhere?
<ScottK> Here is good.
<SirBob1701> ah
<SirBob1701> ok how does one go about joining?
<persia> SirBob1701: Jump in, do some stuff, and after a while we'll tell you to request upload access.
<crimsun> nenolod: hmm, interesting point WRT OSS.
<SirBob1701> persia: ok
<persia> SirBob1701: I like to make sure people have reviewed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, and would be happy to share tasks if you are looking for some.
<nenolod> fghgds
<nenolod> libflashsupport reruns configure without CFLAGS="-m32" :|
<nenolod> hmm. exporting it fixes things.
<SirBob1701> persia: i'll look that site over thoughly and then talk to you :)
<persia> SirBob1701: When you're looking for something, just ask here.  Others may also have suggestions if I'm not around.
<SirBob1701> ok
<crimsun> ScottK: 180466 processed.
<SirBob1701> persia: if i want the source for a project to work on do i use the synaptic source or bazaar?
<persia> SirBob1701: Depends on where you want to apply the fix.  I usually start with the Ubuntu package, (which might be repo source or bzr, depending on the package), and then push back up to Debian or upstream.
<SirBob1701> ok
<LaserJock> SirBob1701: generally apt-get source
<SirBob1701> LaserJock: thanks
<LaserJock> often times if the package is maintained in bzr it'll tell you, I think
<nenolod> stupid gtk+ bug
<nenolod> it's definitely some FD exhaustion thing
<nenolod> TRY TO CRASH IRSSI, GTK+
<nenolod> I DARE YOU.
<nenolod> yeah. that's what i thought.
<nenolod> watch gnome-terminal crash now.
<nenolod> ia32-libs needs new libraries
<nenolod> :D
<Fujitsu> Again?
<nenolod> yeah
<nenolod> pulse is not there
<Fujitsu> Wasn't it uploaded less than 24 hours ago?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<nenolod> sdl is fixed, libao is added (zsnes)
<nenolod> pulse is missing
<persia> Can't we just leave it for a week or so, and push a new upload then?  It's truly huge.
<nenolod> persia: yes
<nenolod> persia: i'm more interested in fixing this GTK+ bug NOW.
 * nenolod nods
<nenolod> because it's really starting to tick me off
<nenolod`> well, pbuilder isn't going, so...
<nenolod`> lets see if conspire can run without gtk going insane
<nenolod`> ok.
<nenolod`> i'm running memtest86+ again.
<nenolod`> back later
 * bddebian starts build 150 of newpki-client :-(
<ScottK> crimsun: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> bddebian: What are you trying to do to the poor creature?
<ScottK> slangasek: Would you have a moment to push clamav out the door in feisty-backports?  It fixes two CVEs currently open in the backports version.
<Fujitsu> Who needs viruses when you have vulnerable virus scanners?
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Build it with wxgtk2.6
<Fujitsu> bddebian: Ah. Ew.
<ScottK> Better than 2.4.
<Fujitsu> Marginally.
<bddebian> Trying to get rid of 2.4 :-)
<ScottK> bddebian: Why not reach for the stars and do it with 2.8?
<bddebian> Debian doesn't have it yet :-(
<ScottK> Ah.  You're doing Debian first.  That makes sense.
<Fujitsu> Are we trying to prevent wx from turning into db4.x?
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK2> Yes.
<Fujitsu> We have 3 versions of that in universe now, I think.
<ScottK2> More as of the last day or two.
<persia> Fujitsu: Getting rid of wx2.4 has benefits beyond just duplication.  It renders mojibake in all non-latin locales.
<Fujitsu> I thought we had 5 in total, and only 2 in main now.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Are there only 4 packages left on 2.4, or am I looking at the wrong list?
<Fujitsu> nenolod: That wasn't a very long test.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, turns out my old memory was a different CAS timing, and i think that's what the problem was
<nenolod> so i just pulled out the remaining 512M dimm, and things seem to be stable
<nenolod> we'll see what happens ;)
<tuxmaniac> Hi. When is the last date until which I can propose/upload new packages for Hardy?
<tuxmaniac> Is it feature freeze date?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Fujitsu> Isn't it some time before FF, to give archive admins time to NEW them?
<tuxmaniac> good! thanks Hobbsee and wish you a happy and a great new year 2008
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i thought it was all the same now
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: you too :)
<nenolod> at any rate
<nenolod> pbuilder fun
<tuxmaniac> setting up pbuilder is not fun for me. Darn! I wanna a faster connection. 256 Kbps is just not for pbuilder stuff! :-(
<tuxmaniac> Fujitsu, is that so? Can you please let me know the dates. I couldnt find that info in the releaseschedule wiki page
<tuxmaniac> FF seems to be in Feb
<LaserJock> there is no set date
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock, ok
<LaserJock> FF is when archive admins stop processing without an exception
<LaserJock> so you'll want to have them in a bit before FF to allow for that time
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Any idea why we still have libdb1-compat?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: No idea.
<ScottK> Apt-cache says no rdepends.
<Fujitsu> Could be some proprietary things that want it.
<Fujitsu> cjwatson might now, being the maintainer and all.
<ScottK> Sounds like an excellent rationale for removal.
<Fujitsu> *know
<nenolod> aha.
 * ScottK makes a list.
<nenolod> i found the source of my memory problem, i think.
<nenolod> i had two different brands of DIMM being used in a dual-channel configuration
<nenolod> :D
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Are you able to publsh backports?
<Fujitsu> We might have a chance of getting db4.2 to go away if the OpenLDAP issue can be resolved.
<persia> nenolod: That surely wasn't the cause of your gnome-panel crash, was it?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: You mean a backport with source changes?
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: Yes.  It's been uploaded already.  I need an archive admin to publish it.
<Fujitsu> Any core-dev can upload those, and Hobbsee should be able to approve them
<Hobbsee> oh.
<ScottK2> I've lost track of what the web interface can and can't do.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i thought that needed special publishing scripts to accept
<Fujitsu> It can approve stuff from NEW and UNAPPROVED, and even do it properly. That's about it.
<ScottK2> Ah.
<ScottK2> Right.  Should have said.
<Hobbsee> archive admin runes public page may well be incorrect / out of date though
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: As far as I know there's nothing special about backports, except that there's a script on drescher to generate them.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: If you wouldn't mind having a look and seeing if there's a clamav backport in feisty-backports waiting approval?
<Fujitsu> If you're making source changes, there should be no need for the script.
<ScottK2> Right.
<ScottK2> Makes sense.
<nenolod> persia, no
 * ScottK2 waits to see.
<nenolod> persia, my X server started doing whacko stuff
<nenolod> persia, like, it forgot it had a mouse cursor, so i could hover the cursor over any app, and it would kill it with a BadCursor X11 exception
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<ion_> Thatâs a feature. No more need for running xkill separately.
<persia> nenolod: Ah.  I can't reproduce that one :)
<nenolod> ion_, yeah, except it kept killing my irc client whenever i went to go click on something in it
<nenolod> ion_, which started to annoy the living shit out of me
<nenolod> oh well, i just replaced the other 2 banks with more dimms out of that same batch
<nenolod> so now i have 4GB of server ram in here ;)
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: i'm heading out, sorry
<nenolod> persia, going to look into gtk+ FD exhaustion issue now
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: OK.  Maybe slangasek will show up.
<nenolod> oh great
<nenolod> ubuntu renumbered my devices again
<nenolod> er, not ubuntu, alsa
<nenolod> just more reason to get libflashsupport fixed ;)
<SirBob1701> hmm guess i'll request something to work on tommorow
<nenolod> persia, i added an appointment to evolution to remind me to file a bug about adding libpulse to ia32-libs in 5 days. ;)
<ScottK2> nenolod: No reason not to file the bug now.
<SirBob1701> what ide's do you guys use?
<ScottK2> kate and vim are my favorites ;-)
 * Fujitsu uses vim.
<persia> nenolod: Please do file the bug now, and include the patch, just don't subscribe the sponsors until it's ready to be uploaded.
<SirBob1701> i like vim
<ion_> gvim without the tool/menu/scrollbars.
<nenolod> persia, i'd like to restructure the ia32-libs package from the ground up someday
<persia> SirBob1701: Depending on how much you like vim, you might want to use it in non-IDE mode.  I find it's easier to just keep two terminals open.
<SirBob1701> persia: i usually do do it all terminal based.  i don't use gvim or any of that
<persia> nenolod: If you're up for that, now's your chance.  It'll take long enough to do that most people won't complain about another 500MB download.  Please fix gnome-panel first :)
<nenolod> persia, yes. gnome-panel is my current project, but it's not crashing atm when i run pbuilder
<nenolod> persia, it's being picky about when it wants to do it
<nenolod> persia, i do know where the crash is, though, and knowing is half the battle.
<nenolod> but at least my X server is presently sane. ;)
<nenolod> so hopefully i can get some work done
<nenolod> persia, nvidia drivers also need to be bumped, but that's main, and it's a no-change-upload
<persia> nenolod: Why do they need a bump?  For the new X?
<nenolod> persia, nod
<nenolod> i'm using nv right now which is unaccelerated blitting
<nenolod> SirBob1701, i use nano
<nenolod> SirBob1701, don't listen to these emacs and vi fans. nano is the best.
<SirBob1701> nenolod: bit biased are we? haha
<ion_> Yeah, every editor that requires you to use more keypresses for everything is good.
<LaserJock> gedit FTW!
<ScottK> SirBob1701: You'll love the intuitive interface were ctrl o means save.
<SirBob1701> i like :w
<LaserJock> ScottK: obviously ;-)
<nenolod> ScottK, nano is intuitive to me
 * ScottK too
<nenolod> but i'm a little bit nuts apparently
<SirBob1701> you guys european?
<nenolod> so :P
<ScottK> Not me.
<LaserJock> not I
<SirBob1701> hmm
<ScottK> nenolod: You also use Gnome, so you're doubly suspect in my book.
<nenolod> ScottK, :D
<nenolod> ScottK, i only use gnome because right now i find xfce's direction to be too vague ;)
<SirBob1701> I like xfce network manager doesn't work the way i'd like all the time in it tho
<SirBob1701> actually never
<nenolod> networkmanager sucks
 * nenolod needs to remove it
<SirBob1701> lol what do you use?
<SirBob1701> or want to use?
<nenolod> i already killed off tracker for wasting my disk I/O resources building an index i won't ever use
<SirBob1701> ya i should prolly yank that out.  i only use locate
<nenolod> SirBob1701, /etc/network/interfaces
<SirBob1701> nenolod: i jump too many wireless networks
<nenolod> SirBob1701, this is a desktop
<SirBob1701> there you go
<nenolod> SirBob1701, networkmanager is fine for my laptop
<SirBob1701> honestly its only on my desktop back at school cause i'm lazy
 * nenolod wishes there was a ubuntu-desktop-lite
<SirBob1701> haha
<nenolod> you know, gnome without networkmanager, tracker, and other crap i don't want
<SirBob1701> gobuntu?
<persia> nenolod: What would it contain?  Maybe you seek ubuntu-standard?
<nenolod> SirBob1701, networkmanager, tracker, and other crap i don't want, are all free software
<SirBob1701> ah
<nenolod> persia, gnome, ubuntu-artwork, other useful tools like gimp, OO.o and such
<ScottK> Fortunately they are easliy removed
<SirBob1701> i mike switch over to xubuntu.  gotta see how vmware workstation works in it
<persia> SirBob1701: Should be no change from how it works in any other flavour, due to the nature of dependencies management.
<SirBob1701> hmm
<nenolod> persia, i think ia32-libs should be a metapackage for various lib32*
<SirBob1701> do you guys all have day jobs and do all this in your free time?
 * Fujitsu doesn't see any Canonical employees lurking, so assumes so.
<ScottK> Almost all.
 * ScottK sees at least one.
<nenolod> SirBob1701, well i make money working with linux, but i don't make money packaging up software for debian/ubuntu ;p
 * TheMuso sees at least 3.
<Fujitsu> Sorry, I meant lurking in the `likely to be around' sense, not in the IRC `always present but not speaking' sesnse.
 * ScottK2 uses linux to make money, but doesn't get directly paid for working on Ubuntu.
 * nenolod declares memory issue fixed since his box hasn't gone into automatic xkill feature mode
<nenolod> ;)
<SirBob1701> i took a job for after graduation devloping windows applications.  guess i'm a traitor lol
<nenolod> no, just foolish
<nenolod> people pay big bucks for linux work
<nenolod> microsoft pays their employees fairly poorly
<TheMuso> nenolod: You know of this how?
<nenolod> TheMuso, there's a fairly large microsoft installation where i live
<nenolod> i hear of these things :)
<SirBob1701> i'm not working for microsoft i'm working for a dutch company
<SirBob1701> only in america 2 years
<LucidFox> SirBob1701> Nobody can forbid you to develop for a dying platform. The only question is whether you want that yourself.
<nenolod> TheMuso, most of the microsoft developers i know are below the poverty line
<SirBob1701> LucidFox: point taken
<TheMuso> nenolod: Ouch.
<nenolod> TheMuso, well it's why windows is crap
 * persia champions platform agnosticism for employment, so long as it provides time for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I think I might be below the poverty line ...
<nenolod> TheMuso, nobody is motivated to do a good job because they are paid so poorly
<TheMuso> nenolod: I'm not so sure I believe that.
<nenolod> TheMuso, well i'm sure it's one of the reasons
<nenolod> windows is also needlessly complex
<nenolod> that's probably another ;)
<persia> nenolod: I'm not.  I'm paid very poorly to work on Ubuntu, and don't believe it impacts my motivation.
 * minghua doesn't count "work for free" as "be paid very poorly". :-)
 * persia thinks minghua has never held a "working visa"
<nenolod> persia, yes, but, you're motivated because you're making a /difference/
 * persia loses the set
<ScottK> LaserJock: But you're a graduate student.  You've volunteered to be poor.
<minghua> persia: No.
<nenolod> persia, your average microsoft employee is doing whatever he is told to do. he has no latitude for making his own choices about defining the direction in which a specific component of a product should go
<LaserJock> ScottK: true ... although I don't feel much like a volunteer
<nenolod> when working on ubuntu, you are in control of your own tasks
<persia> nenolod: To me that would be more of an issue than the remuneration.
<nenolod> persia, yes, but if you have no choice in how to go with something, and you are being paid poorly to do this work, than odds are you're not going to be very non-apathetic about it
<persia> nenolod: I've been apathetic and bitter while being paid very highly to do things I had no choice about.  It's not about remuneration.
<nenolod> persia, true
<nenolod> persia, but at least you can be apathetic and bitter in style with proper remuneration. ;)
<nenolod> but the backbone of the linux economy is small privately owned businesses anyway
<persia> s/linux/any/
<nenolod> companies like redhat, canonical, while being a large component, are not the majority share of how linux (and FOSS in general) gets developed
<nenolod> whereas in windows, you're mostly doing business with giant corporations which are inhumane
<nenolod> and don't really care if you like their product or not, as long as you didn't download it from a torrent
<SirBob1701> i'll go for inhumane if it pays well :)
<nenolod> i wouldn't
<LaserJock> I think I'd just go for a job at this point
<LaserJock> I've been in school too long
<nenolod> i'd rather make barely enough to live on and do the right thing, than make lots of money doing the wrong thing
<SirBob1701> uh oh somebody has morals ;)
<LaserJock> nenolod: for a great many people "right thing" can mean a lot of thing I think
<LaserJock> for instance providing for their family, etc.
<nenolod> LaserJock, indeed
<SirBob1701> providing for oneself...
<persia> nenolod: Just for the record, large inhumane corporations also use linux and FOSS (frequently wrapped by Value-Added-Resellers who charge lots of money for training sessions and GPL software).
<nenolod> persia, AKA: redhat enterprise linux ? :)
<persia> nenolod: No.  More like Niksun
<nenolod> at least canonical's support contract offerings i have heard are fair
<nenolod> redhat support contracts are like hundreds of thousands of dollars for enterprises
<nenolod> from what i have heard
<nenolod> i could be wrong
<nenolod> persia, oh dear
<persia> nenolod: Yep.  You've never paid so much for snort and wiretap before :)
<LucidFox> Does anyone here run hardy? (Not in pbuilder, but with an actual shell)
<persia> LucidFox: Several people.
<nenolod> LucidFox, i'm running it
<Vorian> LucidFox: me too
<nenolod> LucidFox, i thought it went insane, but it turned out that i had a memory DIMM being overclocked to all hell
 * Fujitsu has been running it for more than 2 months.
<nenolod> :D
<LucidFox> I'd like someone to execute "apt-get build-dep avidemux" and report if anything is missing
<LucidFox> to kill bug #71802
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 71802 in avidemux "apt-get build-dep fails " [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71802
<persia> LucidFox: How would a live system differ from a chroot for that test?
<LucidFox> It wouldn't.
<LucidFox> You can run it in a chroot.
<persia> LucidFox: You know about pbuilder --login, right?
<Fujitsu> debcheck says it's OK on all archs.
<LucidFox> I didn't. Sorry. :)
<Vorian> LucidFox: i can confirm an error if that's what you are looking for
<Fujitsu> But indeed it fails here.
<persia> LucidFox: No need to apologise: that's a large part of why we have this channel :)
<Vorian> persia: !!! that's awesome!
<nenolod> pbuilder --login is indeed very useful.
 * persia still prefers schroot on LVM
<Vorian> i've been wondering all day, "where the heck is ~/.pbuilderrc"
<persia> LucidFox: Works for me
<nenolod> Vorian, it's not in your pbuilder
 * Fujitsu finds schroot on LVM to be very good.
<nenolod> Vorian, it's a file you put in your home directory.
<nenolod> Vorian, it allows you to override default behaviours of pbuilder
<Vorian> nenolod: aye, and when I just did the pbuilder --login it created it
<nenolod> i should see if this dimm i accidentally overclocked to all hell because it didn't have an SPD chip on it is still usable
<nenolod> probably not
<crimsun> ah, nice, so it was a hardware issue?  (likely?)
<persia> LucidFox: I can reproduce the bug in gutsy (and don't have a feisty chroot handy to test more).
<nenolod> crimsun, the kpanic is not.
<nenolod> crimsun, cause it happens on my other amd64 box
<crimsun> nenolod: right, was referring to the gtk+
<LucidFox> It does occur in gutsy.
<LucidFox> Because avidemux used to depend on a library removed there.
<nenolod> crimsun, well, yes and no. there's a bug in the recent files chooser code relating to FD exhaustion.
<crimsun> and ya gotta love pci device enumeration being nondeterministic.
<nenolod> crimsun, but my gtk going insane is indeed fixed after pulling that dimm
<nenolod> it's been up for ~90 minutes now, which is much longer than before ;)
<persia> Does anyone happen to know why the fortran support libraries still depend on gcc 3.4?
<nenolod> persia, yes
<nenolod> cool
<nenolod> ia32-libs is broken in a new way now
<Vorian> do i copy /etc/pbuilderrc to ~/.pbuilderrc?
<nenolod> oh.
<nenolod> nevermind.
<nenolod> it's because of a thirdparty repo.
<nenolod> :D
<nenolod> persia, going to work on gtk+2.0 bug
<persia> nenolod: Thanks.
<nenolod> if i can wake up, that is
<ScottK> Vorian: Why would you want to do that?
 * persia proferrs purple pep pills
<Vorian> ScottK: I don't have a ~/.pbuilderrc
<nenolod> Vorian, you don't need one
<ScottK> Vorian: Is this causing a problem?
<Vorian> no, not at all
<ScottK> Then you don't need one.
<Vorian> alrighty then
<ScottK> The only reason you might is to set per user pbuilder prefs differently
 * minghua gets back to his Ubuntu machine and installs firefox-3.0.
<nenolod> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11160730/ThreadStacktrace.txt
<Vorian> ScottK: thanks for the tip :)
<nenolod> this isn't very useful.
<persia> ScottK: You might be interested in following http://wiki.debian.org/GfortranTransition as part of your longer-term goal to reduce the gcc version count
<ScottK> That or I might get a severe headache just thinking about it.
<persia> ScottK: Looks to me like progress is well underway, and we've a good chance of being able to mostly sync, with only 5-10 patch applications (and some rebuilds).
<ScottK> I'm currently wrapping my head around doing a libclamav2 to libclamav3 transition in backports.
<persia> Don't let me distract you then: that's needful and painful enough :)
<nenolod> i don't see how it could crash there
<nenolod> bleah
<nenolod> oh.
<nenolod> it's a GSlice
<nenolod> no wonder the address is weird
<nenolod> idle_populate_func() isn't thread safe either.
<nenolod> persia, ok. i figured it out.
<nenolod> persia, what happens is that occasionally, idle_populate_clean_up() gets called BEFORE idle_populate_func()
<nenolod> persia, i'm trying to figure out how to recover from that safely
<nenolod> persia, i have a debdiff which fixes it for me. would you like to try it?
<persia> nenolod: Sure.  I'll give it a shot.  You've attached it to which bug again?
<nenolod> i'll do that in a bit. i'm still testing it out ;)
<nenolod> persia, what should i change a core package to for Maintainer: ?
<persia> nenolod: For the first time today, you've asked me specifically a non-specific question.  Please don't.  The answer is "UbuntuÂ CoreÂ DevelopersÂ <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>" according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<nenolod> sorry about that
<nenolod> i should have just looked at gcc ;)
<nenolod> oh. i hate them. they have a control.in.
<ion_> Hey, it could be worse. At least they donât have rules.in
<persia> ion_: Is that even permitted?
<ion_> I sincerely hope not. :-D
<minghua> How do you generate rules if you have rules.in?
<ion_> You could âbootstrapâ it by initially writing a small debian/rules that just generates debian/rules from debian/rules.in. ;-)
 * persia discovers it is permitted, as long as rules is generated at packaging time, as part of the packaging tool that shall not be named.
<minghua> Ah right.  Generated at packaging time.
<nenolod> persia, it's attached to bug 180463
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180463 in gtk+2.0 "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in idle_populate_func()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180463
<StevenK> persia: Twitch
<persia> StevenK: Yes.  This is why the packaging tool shall not be named, and any REVU packages using it are rejected summarily.
 * nenolod goes back to enjoying pbuilder without gnome-panel crapping out
<persia> nenolod: I'm looking at the patch, but I don't understand why it's good.  Could you explain a little?
<nenolod> persia, ah, yes. the part which makes it work is not shown.
<nenolod> in gtk_recent_chooser_menu_populate(), it checks to see if populate_id is set to non-zero.
<nenolod> if so, it returns to avoid recursion.
<persia> nenolod: Yes.  That's the part I'm having trouble with.  It looks like you are delaying the variable assignment, and checking it later, but I don't understand why the problem then goes away.
<persia> Ah.  That makes sense.  Thanks.
<nenolod> in vanilla gtk, idle_populate_func() always sets populate_id to zero regardless of whether or not it should be.
<nenolod> at any rate, that's enough to fix it for me, but the underlying problem is still there: gtk_recent_chooser_menu_populate() should never be called more than once.
<nenolod> so, my patch sets populate_id to 0 when idle_populate_func() will never be called again.
<nenolod> i also check populate_id to in idle_populate_clean_up() to make sure that it hasn't been called preemptively (due to possible thread race condition issues)
<persia> nenolod: OK.  So just moving it before the return FALSE; makes it clean.  Got it.  Amusingly enough, I'm not triggering it building your candidate.
<nenolod> what's strange is: anyone who knows GTK should know that the way that code worked was entirely bogus
 * nenolod wonders if they audit gtk2 anymore ;)
<nenolod> the part in idle_populate_clean_up() where populate_id is just a sanity check to ensure that populate_id is zero before it frees the context data that idle_populate_func() uses
<nenolod> persia, what is curious to me though is: why is gtk_recent_chooser_menu_populate() being called in gnome-panel
<nenolod> sadly, we probably won't ever know the answer to that
<nenolod> because gobject wraps everything up in a hard to debug mess
<persia> nenolod: FTBFS in my chroot :( http://paste.ubuntu.com/3297/
<nenolod> bleah
<nenolod> persia, i copied in the wrong patch :(
 * persia cheers the power of peer review
<nenolod> persia, try that. it's new and improved.
<persia> With the new patch, the build triggers the bug :)
<nenolod> persia, :D
<persia> nenolod: I'm off for a bit: I'll update the bug with my results after a dozen builds or so.
<slangasek> ScottK2: there's a clamav package in feisty-backports/unapproved, yes
<ScottK2> slangasek: Would you please approve it.
<ScottK2> slangasek: It fixes a couple of CVEs and I'll sleep better knowing we're all caught up.
<ScottK2> Or more precisely fixes the package so that it will actually build on Feisty.
<LucidFox> Hmm, apport now reports upgrade problems. Very useful.
<slangasek> ScottK2: are there guidelines on accepting backports that I should be following?
<ScottK2> It should be approved by a member of ubuntu-backporters (I'm one of those).
<ScottK2> Source backports should be rare and must be uploaded by a core-dev.  Crimsun took care of that for me.
<ScottK2> Other than that, not that I know of.
<ScottK2> slangasek: ^^^
<slangasek> right, good enough. :)
<ScottK2> Version numbering should be sensible would be another rule I guess.  This should be fine on those grounds.
<slangasek> acceptzored
<ScottK2> slangasek: Thanks.
<ScottK2> And LP is mighty quick with the mail.
<nenolod> persia, great. thanks for testing my fix.
 * slangasek wonders why content is split between wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com
<nenolod> persia, if it doesn't whack it, then we'll have to look for other causes.
<LucidFox> persia, I have prepared a debdiff for avidemux 2.4 final, if you still care about that :)
<LucidFox> I've also been approved into ubuntu-bugcontrol
<slytherin> how come a package gets built in Debian if a build dependency is missing?
<Fujitsu> slytherin: Because Debian allows binaryful uploads.
<Fujitsu> So arch-indep packages will only ever get built on the maintainer's system.
<Fujitsu> Most don't even use pbuilder, it seems.
<imbrandon> slangasek: that was thanks to our wonderfull community marketing
<Fujitsu> That leaves the Debian archive in a very questionable state, but they don't seem to like the idea of binary-only uploads.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: What was?
<Fujitsu> Er, source-only uploads.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: help. and wiki. split
<Fujitsu> Ah, yes.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: libcommons-lang-java has ftbfs in ubuntu and guess what the build dependency 'ant' is missing. I have just fixed it and will upload debdiff soon.
<Fujitsu> slytherin: Right, that's because the Debian maintainer is probably braindead.
<Fujitsu> Make sure there's a bug in Debian - Lucas has probably already filed one.
<slytherin> let me check
<slytherin> no bugs found in debian. I will file one.
<Fujitsu> Check that it's a problem in Debian first, please.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: problem must be there since ubuntu version was a sync form debian. Still I will make sure
<slytherin> yes, problme is present in debian too
<warp10> Please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tennix a cute little tennis game.  It had 1 advocacy yet, and is waiting for the second one.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: I am getting 'Relay access denied' error when trying to use reportbug. Is there anyway I can submit report from gmail?
<LucidFox> slytherin> Submit a mail to submit@bugs.debian.org
<LucidFox> with the subject being the bug name
<LucidFox> and the first two lines being:
<LucidFox> Package: (package)
<LucidFox> Version: (Debian version)
<slytherin> LucidFox: I have the report created by reportbug. Just want to know if I need to sign the message
<Fujitsu> No signature is necessary.
<slytherin> Ok, done.
<slytherin> By the way, debdiff for ubuntu is available at bug 180502
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180502 in libcommons-lang-java "[patch] Fix for FTBFS - 'ant' is missing from Build-Depends" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180502
 * Fujitsu attacks the triager of that bug.
<Fujitsu> Wishlit for an FTBFS. Nice one.
<LucidFox> Whoops.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<LucidFox> Sorry, I was only approved yesterday. What should the importance for FTBFS be? Critical?
<Fujitsu> High.
<LucidFox> Ack.
<Fujitsu> Critical is more for bugs that kill things.
<Fujitsu> Like the one that dropped people from the admin group, for example.
<minghua> Or data loss, I suppose.
<Fujitsu> I think that comes under `kill things'
 * minghua wonders how that bug wasn't caught by Lucas's mass rebuild.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Right.
<Fujitsu> minghua: That's what I was thinking above.
<Fujitsu> Has it only needed that dependency recently?
<minghua> Fujitsu: Digging in LP, I found 2.3-2 built fine on October last year.
<Fujitsu> The changelog for the Debian upload yesterday seems to indicate some move to ant.
<Fujitsu>    * debian/rules:
<Fujitsu>      - Rewritten to use CDBS' ant task.
<minghua> Yeah, so likely a new bug.
<persia> warp10: I couldn't find any evidence that the "Royalty Free" loops from http://www.melodyloops.com/ carried a license anywhere.  Could you expand on your sources as to why they are public domain?
<nenolod> persia, how's the gtk patch going?
<nenolod> persia, you might have to restart to make the patched version kick in. i'm not certain.
<nenolod> (since gtk2 is already memory resident)
<persia> nenolod: Not had very much testing yet (build completed whilst I was away)
<AnAnt> man-di: hello, I made a package for JOSM that builds against icedtea, but I found out a couple of hours ago, that Debian GIS team are making a JOSM package (but based on sun java6)
<AnAnt> man-di: their package is even better than mine btw
<AnAnt> man-di: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-grass/packages/josm/trunk/debian/?rev=0&sc=0
<man-di> AnAnt: you can file a merge request and change the (build-)depends for Ubuntu
<AnAnt> man-di: how?
<AnAnt> man-di: how file a merge request I mean
<man-di> !merging
<ubotu> Merging is the process of including changes from other distributions (most commonly Debian) into Ubuntu packages, and is typically a major focus at the beginning of each Ubuntu development cycle.  Please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging for more information.
<man-di> !merging | AnAnt
<ubotu> AnAnt: please see above
<LucidFox> Wow. Bug #180511 is the first time I see a bug not filed in English.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180511 in evolution "keine Termine mehr im Kalender" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180511
<persia> AnAnt: If you process as a merge, please strive for minimal variation from Debian.
<AnAnt> man-di: but it isn't in Debian yet
<man-di> AnAnt: oh
<AnAnt> man-di: it's just in alioth.d.o
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: I've seen quite a number.
<man-di> AnAnt: thats a problem, I dont know how Ubuntu handles this. I'm a Debian developer, sorry
<man-di> persia: any idea?
 * jussi01 pokes persia 
<AnAnt> well, I was thinking of sending my work to the Debian GIS team to merge my work into theirs
<persia> AnAnt: We've not yet organised exactly how to pull from alioth cleanly.  Best current practice is to work with the alioth team, and apply any patches as "Ubuntu variations".  This is less ideal for NEW packages, in which cases the REVU submitter typically works closely with the Debian packagers to ensure -0ubuntu1 matches SVN closely.
<AnAnt> btw, there is an RFP on Debian for icedtea
<AnAnt> isn't it possible that Matthias sends his IcedTea package to Debian?
<man-di> AnAnt: I know, I#m working on it this weekend
<AnAnt> man-di: ah, cool !
<LucidFox> I'd _love_ to see icedtea in Debian.
<AnAnt> man-di: well if IcedTea gets into debian, then there won't be a need for Ubuntu variations, right ?
<man-di> LucidFox: me tee, but I fear too many people will depend on this and forget to think
<man-di> AnAnt: not necesarrily
<AnAnt> man-di: depend on what ? and think about about ?
<jonnymind> Hello, MOTU people.
<slytherin> AnAnt: depend on icedtea and forget think if the package can be compiled with GCJ
<man-di> AnAnt: depend on only icedtea and forget about the alternatives and then people on e.g. sparc file a lot of bugs because icedtea doesnt exist there
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> man-di: well, what are the alternatives ?
<man-di> e.g. java-gcj-compat(-dev)
<AnAnt> man-di: that's part of gcc, right ?
<man-di> mostly, yes
<man-di> but there are more
<jussi01> persia: Jaako did the work, I only copied the patches/files in and compiled
<persia> jussi01: If Jaako made the patches, and you integrated the patches with the package, your name goes in the changelog, and you should mention that Jaako is the patch author in the specific entry for the patch.
<nenolod> is it a known issue that pornlib is utterly fucked in firefox-3.0?
<nenolod> or should i file a bug.
<nenolod> ;)
<Fujitsu> !ohmy | nenolod
<ubotu> nenolod: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<nenolod> oh right.
<nenolod> sorry. :(
<jussi01> persia: no, you misubderstand. Jaako crated the patch, and gave me an edited control file/changelog.
 * Hobbsee can imagine that certain people would be very happy to look into that...
<persia> jussi01: Did you need to make any further changes?
<jussi01> persia: nothing
<persia> jussi01: Then Jaako's name belongs in the changelog
<nenolod> let me rephrase is --> http://nenolod.net/pornlibisgreat.png <-- a known issue with pornlib in firefox3?
<jussi01> persia: are you able to test the deb I sent you? i haven a hardy system as yet
<persia> jussi01: No, firstly because I don't like binaries, and secondly because that deb isn't compatible with my system.
<nenolod> while i'm sure people enjoy images that are scaled looking like abstract art, i don't think it's very useful ;)
<jussi01> persia: ahh
<white> Hobbsee: so the final plan is you text me, when i am in .au? :)
<Hobbsee> white: do you prefer lunch or dinner?
<Hobbsee> but yeah, that sounds OK
<white> don't mind
<Hobbsee> ok
<white> just want to make sure we know how to actually fix a place and time, before i go offline here and we miss each other :)
<Hobbsee> cool, yup
<white> i'll be crying, if you don't call me during tuesday :)
<jussi01> ok, can someone remind me where the documentationon how to make a debdiff is?
<white> Hobbsee: become a DD and put your mobile phone number in LDAP
<white> at once :)
<Hobbsee> white: why do i want to become a dd?
<Hobbsee> jussi01: debdiff foo1.dsc foo2.dsc > foo.debdiff
<white> jussi01: debdiff $old_version*.dsc $new_version.dsc
<StevenK> white: My mobile number is in LDAP, feel free to call me
<raof> white: Shouldn't you have suggested that a couple of years ago if you wanted it done soon?
<StevenK> Hrm. Lowercaseroaf
<white> StevenK: you are in sydney?
<StevenK> white: Aye
<white> oh great :)
<Hobbsee> raof: you coming?
 * raof is without scrollback
<StevenK> What are you using, telnet?
 * white gets to see the whole sydney cabal, great :)
<raof> Hobbsee: If I'm in Sydney, then yes :)
<Hobbsee> irc over crackpipe.
<Hobbsee> raof: will you be in sydney on wednesday?
<raof> I'm currently in Perth, and my home box is down :(
<raof> No.  Curses!
<Hobbsee> drat
<StevenK> white, Hobbsee: I'd prefer dinner, but lunch is do-able
<Hobbsee> fly home earlier then
<white> raof: will you be in alice springs at the end of the week?
<raof> I'm back on Friday.  Probably at some godawful time in the morning if previous form is followed.
<nenolod> hi DarkMageZ
<white> StevenK Hobbsee: i am fine with whatever
<Hobbsee> ok
<DarkMageZ> hey nenolod
<raof> white: No.  Perth is *quite* hot enough for me, thanks :)
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, you should see this cool bug in firefox3-pornlib
 * white can't wait to leave German winter
 * Fujitsu sends raof to Darwin.
 * jussi01 would love to be in .au ,  but cant
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, lol. i remember they called the lib libporn. what's the bug?
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/180525
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180525 in firefox-3.0 "firefox-3.0 pornlib resizes images into works of abstract art" [Undecided,New]
<raof> Hot *and* humid, urgh!
<jussi01> #Â¤%#Â¤%Â¤ -20 degrees
<raof> jussi01: is that -20 degrees in some sensible scale, like Celcius?
<jussi01> raof: yes
<nenolod> firefox3 is a much nicer browser than firefox2.
<raof> jussi01: Oh, dear.
<nenolod> it doesn't memory leak.
<nenolod> i'm .. stunned.
<jussi01> raof: I am after all an aussie...
<nenolod> it just has a bunch of other bugs instead :D
<Fujitsu> nenolod: That's what I thought. It's also much nicer in other ways.
<Fujitsu> And it's fast.
<raof> nenolod: And Epiphany now builds against xulrunner, so it looks ggood.
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, lol. nice
 * raof decides that telepathy-idle isn't for him, and gets a real local irc client
<nenolod> Fujitsu, the download manager in fx3 is a significant improvement
<\sh> moins
 * slytherin waits for epiphany-webkit
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Is it? I haven't used Firefox much for many months.
<Fujitsu> slytherin: It's deliberately disabled in Ubuntu :(
<slytherin> Fujitsu: I know
<nenolod> slytherin, webkit isn't ready for primetime yet
<raof> slytherin: You can get something pretty close with epiphany right now.  Yay native form widgets!
<Fujitsu> raof: Apart from the grey rectangles around them.
<persia> slytherin: If you really want webkit & GTK, try midori
<nenolod> midori is a neat little browser
<slytherin> persia: I will when I upgrade my machine
<nenolod> i hope that it someday gets complete enough to replace firefox in ubuntu entirely
<raof> fujitsu: That seems to have gone away for me?
 * nenolod is "not a fan" of firefox
<persia> slytherin: You could backport it :)
<Fujitsu> raof: Hm, not for me. WHen did you last upgrade?
<slytherin> persia: too many dependencies will need to be backported
<Fujitsu> Has raof caught persia disease?
<slytherin> nenolod: webkit is ready, epiphany-webkit combo is no5t
<nenolod> slytherin, not true. webkit-gtk and webkit-qt have incomplete spots.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: I upgraded this morning sometime.  Ish.
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, midori is Very fast!
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Hmmm. I upgraded a few hours ago, and I still have the rectangles.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Hm.  Some things have borders (gtk.entry, for example), but bettons don't.
<nenolod> slytherin, try to download something in a webkit-gtk browser. it just shows up as crap on the screen
<slytherin> nenolod: Right. How is that webkit's fault. The rendering engine is perfect. That is why Safari uses it
<RAOF> Or even buttons.
<persia> Fujitsu: I like to think of it as ease ;P
<StevenK> RAOF: You fixed your home box?
<nenolod> slytherin, when i say "webkit is not ready for primetime" i mean in the scope of ubuntu, which is not MacOS, and therefore incapable of running safari ;)
<RAOF> StevenK: No, I installed an actual irc client.
<StevenK> Heh
<RAOF> nenolod: Wine :P
<nenolod> RAOF, safari runs on wine now? it bailed a while back.
<slytherin> nenolod: Ok. Perhaps I was unclear. I was talking about webkit as rendering engine. I want to test webapps in two different rendering engines.
<RAOF> nenolod: According to some blog on my reading list, yes, it works.  As long as you've got the mscorefonts in the right place.
<Ubulette> nenolod: i can't reproduce your ff3 bug
<nenolod> Ubulette, weird.
<nenolod> Ubulette, are you using the one in hardy?
<Ubulette> could you try in safe mode ?
<DarkMageZ> i can replicate nenolod's firefox bug.
<nenolod> Ubulette, yeah. one sec.
<RAOF> Can anyone see this?
<nenolod> Ubulette, same garbage
<StevenK> RAOF: No
 * StevenK smirks
<Ubulette> i've tried with http://nenolod.net/canhasdesktop.png it looks fine, i can zoom in and out, no problem
<nenolod> Ubulette, i can zoom in, and it's fine
<nenolod> Ubulette, zoom out, it's crap.
<nenolod> Ubulette, what version are you using?
<nenolod> DarkMageZ is running the same one as I am and he gets the same crap
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, are you running x86 64UL or 32UL?
<nenolod> it might be a 64UL bug. mozilla guys have done it before.
<DarkMageZ> 32-bit hardy. the ff3 build in the repositories.
<nenolod> so it's not 32UL vs 64UL
<Ubulette> i'm with b3pre like hardy but not the one from hardy, i'm running the one from my ppa
<Ubulette> should not matter much
<nenolod> Ubulette, what *version*
<nenolod> Ubulette, i didn't ask where you got it, i asked what *version*
<nenolod> Ubulette, as in, `dpkg -s firefox-3.0 | grep Version`
 * Hobbsee notes that Ubulette answered that
<nenolod> Hobbsee, no, Ubulette answered "like hardy but not the one from hardy"
<nenolod> ;p
<Hobbsee> b3pre
 * DarkMageZ thinks this is offtopic for -motu and more appropriate for -mozillateam or -bugs.
<nenolod> yeah
<nenolod>   -> -mozillateam it is
<Ubulette> b3pre from yesterday. providing i've packaged most of ff3 and xul1.9 myself, i'm pretty confident it doesn't matter
<slytherin> One question, can i install lintian and linda from hardy repository in gutsy? Or do I need to get them from gutsy-backports?
<geser> slytherin: check the depends
<slytherin> geser: other than that there shouldn't be any problem, right?
<geser> correct
<persia> slytherin: Best to get from backports if they are available.  That indicates the backport was tested.  You ought be able to run them directly, but this may be unsafe, and is definitely not supported.
<slytherin> persia: Ok. Downloading them from backports
<slytherin> persia: linda from backports gives warning about standards version 3.7.3
<Fujitsu> linda is yet to be updated for 3.7.3 anywhere.
<persia> slytherin: Yes.  That's unfortunately currently blocked by an effort to come up with a better way to handle the package analysis (with significantly reduced disk I/O).  In the meantime, ignore her complaining about the version.
 * slytherin leaves for now. More java package fixing later
<white> !info kradio hardy
<ubotu> kradio: Comfortable Radio Application for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1.1.1~20061112-3 (hardy), package size 1986 kB, installed size 9384 kB
<POX_> Kmos: ping
<white> bah, can't you guys fix my bugs? :)
<persia> white: We try to be generous, to also give you a chance :)
<white> pfff
<IntuitiveNipple> Is there a channel for PPA tips and help?
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: #launchpad is the closest (but not really)
<IntuitiveNipple> I thought that was the case ... I'll go see :)
<DktrKranz> Vorian, around?
<POX_> Kmos: can I touch startupmanager's debian/changelog with your name before uploading? (kmap is no longer in Uploaders)
<Kmos> POX_: sure
 * persia has just noticed a FTBFS due to a call to dh_iconcache, and notes that anyone interested in a few quick patches might want to look for packages not updated since early gutsy to see if they need s/dh_iconcache/dh_icons/ to avoid FTBFS in hardy.
 * minghua wishes he has access to a mirror so that he can grep dh_iconcache.
<dennda> Hi
<persia> minghua: You could always generate a mirror :)
<dennda> I am just wondering: Isn't there a particular deadline for uploading packages to universe? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<Hobbsee> yes - feature freeze on there
<persia> dennda: No, but the deadline for accepting them into hardy is Feature Freeze.  Best to get it uploaded at least two weeks beforehand,.
<dennda> ok
<dennda> Thank you guys. We will hurry then :)
<dennda> And ladies
<dennda> of course
<minghua> persia: Yeah, But I don't have enough disk space, or bandwidth, or use of a mirror to justify it... :-)
<persia> minghua: You have usage caps?
<Hobbsee> a lot of places do
<minghua> persia: No.  It's not common in US.  I'm on a DSL line though, 300 KB/s tops, I think.
<persia> minghua: Just run while you are asleep for a few days, and you'll have a mirror soon enough.
<minghua> persia: Good to know.  But I am lazy.  So probably not going to happen. :-P
<minghua> And you really need an unpacked archive to do really efficient grepping.
<cyberix> What would be the most straight forward way for a _user_ to make a custom version of a package?
<cyberix> for personal use only
<cyberix> Is there a guide about it somewhere?
<cyberix> I'm talking about changing a precompilation option and such.
<persia> cyberix: I generally used apt-get build-dep; debuild when I did that.  If people don't want the build-deps installed, they need to use pbuilder/sbuild.  changelog doesn't really matter for purely private use.
<minghua> cyberix: debian/changelog actually matters, because of the version number.
<geser> pochu: Hi, are you working on merging mono-tools?
<cyberix> I recall doing apt-get build-dep; apt-get source; dpkg-buildpackage; But that didn't work because it erased my modifications to the source.
<minghua> cyberix: The correct sequence is: apt-get source <foo>; apt-get build-dep <foo>; <make your modifications>; dpkg-buildpackage
<cyberix> That is actually what I did
<cyberix> And it erased my modifications before building
<Hobbsee> sounds like yada
<Hobbsee> cyberix: which package?
 * Fujitsu looks dangerously at Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it does, though.  sounds yada-based.
<cyberix> Can't recall.
<Fujitsu> Perhaps.
<Fujitsu> cyberix: If you're making changes in debian/control, look for a debian/control.in.
<StevenK> Sob
<StevenK> If it's yada, the details are in debian/package or some nonsense
<persia> Yes.  debian/package.  Complete repackaging patches accepted.
<Fujitsu> s/accepted/greatly encouraged/?
<cyberix> Ok. Got it to work.
<Fujitsu> What did you change
<Fujitsu> *?
<cyberix> Just made a test with hello package. Changed one letter.
<cyberix> Now sauna, then hacking++.
<tuxmaniac> Hi. I have done some changes inorder to make the "NEW" package build with pbuilder hardy base. The original package was already uploaded by another friend of mine and I would like to give a update for this. Can I do that? Will there be two uplaods in REVU then for the same package?
<StevenK> persia: I've got to stop repackaging yada-using packages as something else - dexter things I have a vendetta against yada and keeps mailing me about it
<persia> StevenK: You get a pass then.  Recruit some others :)
<persia> tuxmaniac: You can upload to REVU, but your friend won't be able to comment (only the last uploader can comment).
<tuxmaniac> hmm persia but he has done most of the hard work and if we would like to comment on a few "feedacks" from MOTU guys on my upload? Its not possible?
<tuxmaniac> s/we/he
<persia> tuxmaniac: Better to send him the package then, and have him upload.
<tuxmaniac> persia, ok thanks
<minghua> "RPM has many more features, more of an industry standard, etc and yum has just as many features as apt including some apt doesn't have. There is a yum is faster and uses cache just like apt and even has plugins like fast mirror."
<minghua> Seen in a slashdot comment.  Are these all true?
<geser> minghua: there are more rpm from 3rd-party-repos outside than deb but that doesn't say that the rpm works in your rpm-based distro
<minghua> geser: I know.  But the quote was not talking about quantities of packages, it's talking about the features of RPM format and yum.
<tuxmaniac> Hi. If a package name from upstream is  alliance-5.0-20070718, I give 'alliance' as the package name in changelog, version is 5.0-20070718-0ubuntu1 and orig is alliance_5.0_20070718.orig.tar.gz
<tuxmaniac> is that right?
<tuxmaniac> i meant the version in changelog there
<persia> tuxmaniac: alliance_5.0-20070718.orig.tar.gz
<tuxmaniac> aah ok
<tuxmaniac> persia, but I get this error while doing a pdebuild
<tuxmaniac> <error> dpkg-source: error: source package has two conflicting values - alliance-5.0-20070718 and alliance </error>
<tuxmaniac> sorry. I am totally new to packaging. So asking such questions. I have seen through the wiki but couldnt find why this happens.
 * minghua thinks persia got it right.
<minghua> The error message should be some mistake in the package.
 * tuxmaniac checks
<minghua> a blind guess is the source package name in debian/control and debian/changelog don't match.
 * man-di suspects the same as minghua 
<minghua> another blind guess is the name of the directory is wrong.
<tuxmaniac> minghua, heheheh. you hit the bull's eye
 * tuxmaniac bangs his head and makes the change
<\sh> ScottK: ping wine...libgif-dev fixed...it's on the usual place :
<n3xu|laptop> looking for original Quake font, plz pm me </amsg>
 * persia finds it very odd when upstream releases an updated tarball including "dfsg" in the new version name
<Kmos> iceowl should be removed from hardy ? we have sunbird package
<persia> Kmos: sunbird isn't free
<persia> ls
<Kmos> we have it at universe
<Kmos> it's the mozilla calender
<persia> Kmos: Yes.  I know.  However, not all ubuntu derivatives can ship it, as it may not be patched without approval of the Mozilla Foundation.  That is why iceowl exists.  We need both for now.
<Kmos> persia: ah ok =) 0.5-2 doesn't build.. and 0.7-1 at debian builds. so i'll request a sync to fix the ftbfs
<Kmos> the iceowl
<persia> Kmos: Does 0.7-1 build on hardy?
<Kmos> persia: yes
<Kmos> 0.7-2
<Kmos> :)
<zul> then request 0.7-2
<Kmos> yep
<persia> Kmos: If you're sure, and you've tested things, and you can provide sufficient justification for the DIF exception, you may be able to request a sync, but definitely request 0.7-2 rather than 0.7-1.
<Kmos> done =)
<Kmos> i build the 0.7-2
<Kmos> i made a typo
<Kmos> in hardy pbuilder
<Kmos> thanks for the help
<geser> persia: if we keep iceowl for other derivatives why not also the other ice* packages?
<persia> geser: I'm firmly of the opinion we should, if we really mean to release gobuntu, but maybe I'm opinionated in that regard.
<persia> There's some documentation about possible plans at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gobuntu/pkg-non-free
 * minghua thinks Gobutu is going to be vaporware.
<minghua> But I'm usually pessimistic.
 * persia offers minghua http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/gobuntu/daily/current/
<persia> Looks like it's just firefox and thunderbird at this point, although I don't know the state of the kernel
<geser> I remember discussions about firmware without source in the kernel in the debian-devel ML but I don't know if it's resolved now
<minghua> persia: Maybe vaporware is the wrong word.  I meant "distributions that have more developers than users".
<persia> minghua: Well, maybe.  Personally, I think most gobuntu users might be happier with Debian, but it may be that the more frequent release cycle is considered interesting.
<minghua> Is RMS fine with kernel modules that don't work unless you have a binary blob?
<persia> Certainly not.  If there's not a stripped free kernel for gobuntu, certain parties won't be pleased.
<persia> (stripped in the sense of missing blobs, not in the sense of missing symbols)
<minghua> persia: I mean, the kernel won't ship the binary blobs, but will ship modules (with source) that won't work unless the blobs are installed.
<minghua> I am asking because of the recent "mention, therefore recommend non-free software" argument RMS made.
<minghua> I don't think it's worth it to do so much work just to please RMS's ideology (or earn his recommendation).  But it's just me.
<minghua> If somebody else wants to, more power to him.
<persia> minghua: That's the nature of free software: if someone else wants to, they can.  That's the idea behind gobuntu, because for some parts of Ubuntu, we can't (which can be frustrating for both developers and bug submitters).  On the other hand, I use Ubuntu, so take my arguments with seasoning of choice.
<mok0> As much as I sympathize with RMS' view and goals, one of the reasons I chose Ubuntu over Debian is the existence of packages with the restricted nVidia drivers.
<persia> mok0: Those exist in Debian as well (or at least did when I was a Debian user).
<mok0> Oh? My mistake ;-)
<mok0> An other reason is the friendly atmosphere in the ubuntu community...
<mok0> :)
<minghua> mok0: http://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-glx
<minghua> Admittedly they are not as easy to install as in Ubuntu.
<mok0> Yeah, the restricted software gui is awesome
<minghua> And the chance that you'll get it out-of-box is rather slim.  But it's there.
<pochu> geser: not now, and I won't for some time, so feel free to do it yourself
<jonnymind> PPl I had not any other news about bug #174470 after the last fix
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174470
<jonnymind> A couple of weeks have passed...
<AnAnt_> Hello, I am making a package for themes that are based on Human themes , how should I mention the attribution in copyright file ?
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<joejaxx> :)
<persia> jonnymind: I'm suspicious of that.  Every REVU submission pending review was addressed over New Years, so either you have pending work from that, or your package was awaiting a previous update prior to the clear.
<jonnymind> Eh?
<jonnymind>  Emilio Pozuelo Monfort  wrote on 2007-12-20:  (permalink)
<jonnymind> I fixed it and
<jonnymind>  gniccolai  wrote on 2007-12-27:  (permalink)
<jonnymind> And then there's no new notification...
<AnAnt_> btw, can someone review this upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=usplash-theme-ubuntume ?
<jonnymind> Afaik, there was no other issue open, but again afaik the fix has not been checked.
<persia> jonnymind: I commented with 15 action items at 00:16 UTC 1 January 2008 on falconpl.  There has since been no update.  Please check again.
 * minghua hates software that can only be build once (i.e., make clean doesn't restore the source tree status).
<jonnymind> ?
<AnAnt_> I forgot to mention that Human themes are licensed under Creative Commons ShareAlike license
<jonnymind> where do I have to look?
<persia> minghua: It's bug-worthy.  File away.
<minghua> jonnymind: I think persia means http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=falcon
 * persia thanks minghua for the fast URL lookup
<minghua> persia: Not in archive yet.  Just a piece of my pet software.
<minghua> persia: No problem, had it open in firefox.
<minghua> persia: BTW, I think Lucas should have caught most of one-build-only packages in his FTBFS-if-built-twice-in-a-row mass bug filing against Debian.
<jonnymind> persia: I am a bit confused about the copyright thing.
<persia> minghua: most, yes.  There's quite a few Ubuntu-local packages that have that issue, and the Debian QA team is likely still processing QA uploads to fix some of the orphaned packages.
<jonnymind> persia: also, I checked the watch file, and it was correctly finding everything.
<jonnymind> persia: where do I reply to those comments?
<persia> jonnymind: uscan --report-status and uscan --force-download didn't work for me.  What confuses you about debian/copyright?
<jonnymind> In the file, there are the copyright owner, the license and the years.
<persia> jonnymind: for reply, best to ask in this channel.  You can leave a rebuttal as a comment on REVU, but clarification, etc. is best done here, as few people look for updated comments on REVU.
<jonnymind> IC
<persia> jonnymind: Your debian/copyright is very oddly ordered.  It does not contain the download location.  It does not specify the authors (although in this case they happen to match the copyright holder and packager), has an inappropriate plural for "Copyright owners", doesn't follow standard formatting, and fails to include a license for the packaging.
<jonnymind> So, the package license is different than the software license?
<persia> jonnymind: Possibly.  Generally they are the same, but this should be made clear.  Further, if you used other packages as sources when creating your packaging, you may be constrained by the terms of the licensing of the packaging for those packages.
<jonnymind>  This is free software and free for everyone to use.
<jonnymind> Sorry,
<jonnymind> I meant: I just need a thing that is ok for you. I thought you wanted the software copyright in the copyright but it seems it's not the case.
<jonnymind> I'll copy another copyright then.
<persia> jonnymind: debian/copyright contains lots of different information.  Best to read the email which URL is in the comment, and follow that.
<jonnymind> I see a loophole here.
<jonnymind> However, never mind.
<jonnymind> I am absolutely uninterested to the contents of that file as long as it complies with your specifications.
<jonnymind> 4) This appears to be a new license which may cause delays in NEW processing
<jonnymind> Yes, there is a new license.
<jonnymind> 5) manpages are typically installed with dh_installman
<jonnymind> Typically
<persia> That's just a warning, really.  The archive admins tend to take longer when the license is not one with which they are familiar.
<jonnymind> 6) the binary packages seem odd: no-md5sums-control-file is very rare << how is that created?
<persia> jonnymind: Typically with dh_md5sums
<jonnymind> this has the same informative content as saying that the copyrhight file is tipically written with emacs or vi
<persia> jonnymind: Except that you can read the dh_md5sums source to see what it does.
<jonnymind> 9) Donât run strip on shared libraries: use dh_strip << strip is part of my build process.
<persia> jonnymind: Yes, which means we can't generate -dbgsym packages as part of the build, which means we can't effectively trace issues that occur when your program crashes.
<ScottK> \sh: Looking
<jonnymind> 7) You probably want #DEBHELPER# sections in the maintainer scripts << what does this mean? -- I don't want to use debhelper.
<jonnymind> persia: Let me understand. A package debian/ubuntu compliant should not use strip in the build process, and the packaging process should use dh_strip. Correct?
<persia> jonnymind: That's not absolutely required, if you don't want to use debhelper, you can alternately provide a symbols package for debugging as -dbg
<guest22> persia: Could you please answer some questions on your recent review of photoml (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=photoml)?
<jonnymind> persia: from the dh_strip manual it seems I cannot use it at all. I think I will go for adding a dbg binary output.
<persia> guest22: Better to ask questions generally of the channel, as I may well have made mistakes.  I'll likely still answer some of them.
<persia> jonnymind: That would work for me.  As long as symbols can be made available for debugging.
<guest22> OK, thanks. The first issue you raised was "differentiate hyphen and minus-sign", but I can't find any instances of undifferntiated symbols. Presumably I'm overlooking something - could you please point out specific examples?
<Ng> would someone care to look at my latest upload (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1151). I've not yet addressed all of the previous comments, but it has switched back to cdbs, so should be a lot more suitable than the previous version ;)
<persia> guest22: I got that from lintian.  Do you always use \- or \(hy in the manpage?
<jonnymind> persia: man dh_md5sums offer the same informative content about making checksums as... man vi offers informative contents about making debian copyright ;-))
<jonnymind> persia: np;
<jonnymind> I will scan the net. However,
<persia> jonnymind: Read the source.  It's a perl script.
<jonnymind> Ah, the surce is the manual!!! :-)))
<jonnymind> Fantastic.
<jonnymind> However, should I use it on the source package or on the binaries?
<ChrisGibbs> gday all
<jonnymind> i.e. before or after building?
<jonnymind> and
<guest22> persia: I used to just use '-', but switched to the other forms after complaints about '-' during review of another package. (I don't recall from whom.)
<jonnymind> before or after splitting the build result in the directories that will go in the binary packages?
<jonnymind> (I suppose this detail is not to be found on the source).
<persia> guest22: If you're absolutely sure, ignore that then.
<persia> jonnymind: It's typically done as part of the .deb construction, post-install, post-package split, etc.
<guest22> persia: That's how the manpages are formatted in two other packages accepted on REVU.
<\sh> ScottK: thxalot :)
<persia> guest22: That may be.  Not all reviewers perform the same tests.  I'm rather strict.
<guest22> persia: I noticed :)  To the best of my knowledge, though, the escaped forms of '-' are preferable.
<mok0> sed 's/\w-/\\-/' < manpage
<persia> guest22: Differentiation is much preferable, as otherwise one can't reliably copy & paste to the command line and execute things :)
<guest22> persia: Clearly I misunderstood what you meant by differentiation. Could you please explain?
<Vorian> would someone be so kind as to give me some pointers on this error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50867/
<jonnymind> persia: I am going to deal with the various suggestion you pointed out and report here when done. About the watch file I suppose it has been a problem with a temporary misconfiguration of the repository on the server.
<dfiloni> persia: in a lintian output, W is a warning, E is a error, what is "I"?
<mok0> guest22: Anything that is not a hyphen, is a minus
<persia> guest22: manpages ideally never use '-', but always either "\-" to indicate a minus sign and "\(hy" to indicate a hyphen.  The character used in commands is the minus sign (for arguments, file names, etc.).  As nroff formats manpages with '-' as hyphen as default, this can cause issues in a unicode locale.  This is made more complicated because some fonts don7t render the characters differently.
<persia> dfiloni: Informational (and that's a question best asked of the channel generally).
<dfiloni> persia: ok thanks
<persia> jonnymind: OK.  Thanks.  Next revu day is the 7th, so if you've a candidate up then, you'll likely get another review.
<jonnymind> Thank you.
<ScottK2> \sh: I'm still having dependency problems.
<ScottK2> Did it build for you in a Hardy pbuilder?
<\sh> ScottK2: yepp...the fontforge problem is normal, but isn't important for it...I hope fontforge will be fixed for next wine release
<persia> guest22: Looking over your response comment, I can see the point of NEWS and README, just generally prefer to avoid redundancy where possible to save archive space.
<guest22> persia: Now I'm really confused - the manpages in question use "\-" and  "\(hy" rather than "-". What, then, is the problem?
<ScottK2> \sh: I get fontforge is uninstallable and the build fails.
 * persia rebuilds and re-runs lintian to find out which manpage has the problem
<\sh> ScottK2: hmm...not at my place...
<persia> guest22: Problem is in pmldigital.1
<minghua> Fontforge recently went through ungif -> gif transition, if it is relevant...
<guest22> persia: Thanks. (For some reason my version of lintian doesn't pick that up.)
<persia> guest22: Do you call it with -iIv ?
<dfiloni> persia: pbuilder shows me hostname: Unknown host, do you know how I can fix this problem? I can't build
<mok0> guest22, persia: there was an error in my sed line about. The following should take care of most problems in manpages:  sed 's/\W-/ \\-/'
<guest22> No. Perhaps that's the problem. (I found the offending '-' in pmldigital.1.)
<persia> dfiloni: I know nearly nothing about pbuilder.  I've never used it.
<guest22> mok0: Thanks, I'll try that out.
<dfiloni> persia: what you use to build?
<persia> dfiloni: sbuild on schroot on LVM
<dfiloni> ok
<ScottK2> \sh: What arch are you building for?
<minghua> guest22: What is your "hostname" command's output?
 * persia suspects fontforge is a victim of libgif/libungif for now
<ScottK2> persia: Is that a known general problem?
<ScottK2> Because that's where I'm having trouble.
<guest22> persia: (Returning to the other issues) I agree with your desire to reduce redundancy, but in this case, I forsee potential complaints about unclear licensing if the README file is omitted, and the NEWS file really does include useful information. Would you consider it acceptable for the next upload to just fix the '-' issue and the README.debian issue?
<persia> ScottK: There's a transition underway, but it's only about 80% done in main, and hardy tackled in universe (53 packages outstanding last I heard).
<\sh> ScottK2: i386
<ScottK2> persia: From which to which?
<\sh> ScottK2: but I can test amd64 as well
<ScottK2> \sh: OK.  Me too.   That's odd then.
<guest22> minghua: I think you meant to address that question to dfiloni.
<persia> guest22: With your rebuttal, yes, but I'm not likely to be your next reviewer, as I believe the best packages are made by having lots of different viewpoints.
<minghua> guest22: Right. sorry.
<minghua> dfiloni: What is your "hostname" command's output?
<\sh> ScottK2: I set pbuilder-satisfydepends-classic in my pbuilderrc
<dfiloni> minghua: root1-laptop
<persia> ScottK: Bug #174252
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174252
<ScottK2> \sh: I did that too.
<ScottK2> persia: Thanks.
<minghua> dfiloni: what about "echo $HOSTNAME"?
<dfiloni> minghua: root1-laptop
<ScottK2> \sh I swapped the build-dep to try libgif-dev before libungif-dev and it worked fine.  Given the direction of the current transition, I think that's generally sensible anyway.
<minghua> dfiloni: Very strange.  How did you run pbuilder?
<guest22> persia: One more question about the '-' issue. Since I'm reluctant to roll out a new upstream release for something so trivial, this needs to be fixed in the packaging. The two options seem to be a patch file, or appropriate use of sed in the rules file. The latter is more attractive since the package currently does not have any patches. Would that be acceptable, or is there some policy against doing such things?
<\sh> ScottK2: this is really odd
<dfiloni> minghua: sudo pbuilder build --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/gutsy.tgz --distribution gutsy file.dsc
<persia> guest22: No policy against it.  Best practice is to make the packaging easily understood by others.  Patches are common, as the patches are sent upstream, and then removed when applied.  There are a number of cases where sed is used in that manner, for trivial things.
<minghua> dfiloni: Try again without "--distribution gutsy".
<ScottK2> \sh: Agreed.
<ScottK2> \sh: Do you think there's any downside to trying libgif-dev first for dependencies?
<\sh> ScottK2: I thought this morning to remove all other libungif stuff and just leave libgif-dev in place
<ScottK2> That'd make backporting tougher though.
<\sh> ScottK2: yepp...would you like to try 0.9.52 from my ppa on your gutsy ?
<dfiloni> minghua: hostname: Unknown host
<ScottK2> \sh: I'll probably build it for gutsy in my pbuilder after I get it working for Hardy.
<guest22> persia: In other words, you don't have a strong preference for either approach. (Since I'm also the upstream developer, this will be fixed in the next upstream release, independent of the approach for this package.)
<minghua> dfiloni: Do you have a .pbuilderrc file?  What's in it?
<guest22> persia: That should have been "In other words, you don't have a strong preference for either approach?"
<dfiloni> minghua: I don't have .pbuilderrrc file
<minghua> dfiloni: What does "hostname -f" say?
<\sh> ScottK2: hmm my hardy pbuilder just complains about fontforge not going to be installed because of libgif4 and then he's trying libgif-dev as replacement for libungif4-dev which pbuilder can't find
<dfiloni> minghua: hostname: Unknown host
<\sh> ScottK2: and continues
<minghua> dfiloni: Then it's your local problem.  See http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pbuilder-maint/2006-July/001082.html
<ScottK2> \sh: OK.  Mine gives up and quits.  In any case preferring libgif-dev over libundif-dev solves the problem and seems like generally a better idea.  I'm actually into compiling now.
<\sh> ScottK2: ok...I'll swap the b-ds for this..
<\sh> ScottK2: there shouldn't be any problems with this..
<mok0> Isn't there a way to specify a dependency for a specific distribution?
<\sh> ScottK2: I'll push it then to the ppa for gutsy and for feisty somehow...let's see who complains first ,-)
<ScottK2> \sh: I've already done it and so if this works, I'll upload my modification.  Just make sure you pick it up for the next time around.
<ScottK2> OK.  I've also started my gutsy pbuilder running it too.
<\sh> ScottK2: cool :)
<\sh> ScottK2: I wanted to push the wine debian dir somewhere in a bzr branch..
<AnAnt_> anyone knows french ?
<geser> AnAnt_: #ubuntu-fr?
<AnAnt_> err, I wasn't going to ask a question in french
<AnAnt_> I am trying to find the author of some theme , I found his website www.baqs.net, but it's in french, and I can't figure out his name from there
<AnAnt_> the worst thing in making packages is that copyright file, it's a headache !
<Vorian> DktrKranz: yep, I am now
<DktrKranz> Vorian, it was related to pysdm upload, I noticed there is bug 79179 which should be addressed, but I'm arrived late :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 79179 in pysdm "pysdm: doesn't detect partition UUIDs on /etc/fstab." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79179
<Vorian> DktrKranz: I shouldn't have slept in then :)
<minghua> mok0: No, and for a good reason, I think.
 * DktrKranz grumbles at timezones
<dfiloni> minghua: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=313576 fix my problem, thanks
<Vorian> lol
<DktrKranz> Vorian, no problem, next time :)
<Vorian> you got it DktrKranz :)
<mok0> minghua: ?
<minghua> dfiloni: No problem.
<mok0> minghua: What reason is that?
<minghua> mok0: "Isn't there a way to specify a dependency for a specific distribution?"
<mok0> minghua: I just realized I asked thar question some time ago :-)
<minghua> mok0: Package should be differentiated by versions, not by releases, IMHO.
<ScottK2> \sh: My version isn't going to backport cleanly anyway since fontforge depends on libungif in Gutsy.
<minghua> mok0: So how are you going to have different dependencies for different distributions?
<mok0> minghua: hmmm
<minghua> mok0: Or, by "distributions", you mean "Debian or Ubuntu"?
<mok0> minghua: actually, I mean gutsy, hardy...
<mok0> minghua: but it would be nice to be able to do backports transparently
<\sh> ScottK2: hmm...when we leave the b-d with libungif4-dev | libgif-dev it should be ok...when fontforge comes back with correct deps
<minghua> mok0: I would rather have different source packages if different explicit dependencies (i.e., not from dpkg-shlibdeps and the like) are needed.
<mok0> minghua: It works, but it's more difficult to maintain
<\sh> ScottK2: I uploaded yesterday to gutsy ppa and it build cleanly...if you want to test :)
<ScottK2> \sh: Isn't the current dep on libgif in Hardy the correct one already?
<\sh> ScottK2: nope...fontforge is in depwait mode as mentioned yesterday on libfoobarwhatever
<minghua> mok0: Why?  Any decent VCS should handle that easily.
<\sh> ScottK2: anyways...wine 0.9.53 is just waiting to be released..
<ScottK2> \sh: It's not in debwait now.
<ScottK2> deb/dep
<\sh> ScottK2: then the message is strange
<ScottK2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/fontforge/0.0.20071110-1build2
<ScottK2> One option would be to remove the build dep on libgif-dev or libungif-dev entirely and depend on fontforge to pull the right one in.
<\sh> ScottK2: nope...libgif is a build-dep needed by wine explicitly ... so all explicit b-ds should be mentioned...
<ScottK2> I agree it's crackish, but I think it would work.
<\sh> ScottK2: if it's not going to be backported cleanly, we can point the users to winehq gutsy packages
<ScottK2> True
<\sh> ScottK2: sure it works..but think of the last xorg transition ... all packages which had direct source build dependencies were screwed because of the package transition
<ScottK2> Right.  It'd have risks.  The question is is there sufficient benifit to getting it into gutsy-backports to take the risk.
<\sh> ScottK2: actually when we got the message about fontforge being broken..this should be addressed
<\sh> ScottK2: nope...we have a alternative (winehq) the packages are ok for the wine users of gutsy for the latest crack
<ScottK2> OK.
<ScottK2> Putting the build-dep for fontforge ahead of libgif-dev | libungif-dev wouldn't help any, would it?
<mok0> minghua: you are right
<mok0> minghua: I want to start doing that
<ScottK2> \sh: I'm uploading it now.  It'd be nice to have a generic solution for 0.9.53.  Maybe you and Scott can work on that in the meantime.
<\sh> ScottK2: will try :)
<\sh> ScottK2: thx :)
<mok0> minghua: but the tools will complain over the .git directory I think
<guest22> I've just uploaded a new version of photoml (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=photoml) after discussion with persia. Any MOTUs here willing to take a look? (The previous upload had one advocate, so it should be very close to being acceptable.)
<minghua> mok0: Use dpkg-buildpackage -i or equivalent. :-)
<mok0> minghua: thx will check it out
<mok0> minghua: actually, there is a git-buildpackage I realize...
<zul> afternoon
<minghua> mok0: There is also gitpkg.
<Vorian> Could I have some pointers on these errors: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50867/
<ScottK> Vorian: Do you build-dep on something that provides scrollkeeper?
<Vorian> i get the same error with or without libscrollkeeper-dev as a depends
<jpatrick> hmmm, attack of the clones...
<tuxmaniac> Any pointer on these warnings I get. I think the new line things are pretty trivial.
<tuxmaniac> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50877/
<stgraber> just a quick packaging question, when you have a binary file which is only a X program and doesn't take any parameter, do we need the manpage ?
<jpatrick> stgraber: all binaries must have a manpage.. (so says policy)
<geser> Vorian: build-depend on scrollkeeper or rarian-compat
<Vorian> scrollkeeper
<geser> both ship scrollkeeper-config
<Vorian> geser: I'll give it a shot
<stgraber> jpatrick: the policy actually says "should have a manpage", that's the reason of my question :)
<nictuku> hi. is there any problem splitting a python software in multiple deb packages even if all python modules are placed under a single python-package structure?
<Vorian> me hugs geser
<Vorian> that did the trick
<Vorian> :)
<tuxmaniac> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50877/ Any pointers ? I am unable to figure out the reason
<tuxmaniac> atleast for the binary package changed error
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: are you building the source package?
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, yes
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: make sure the .tar.gz is package_version.orig.tar.gz
<tuxmaniac> yes I have made sure that, jpatrick , the name is alliance_5.0-20070718.orig.tar.gz
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: and in changelog it's?
<tuxmaniac> package name is alliance in changelog.
<tuxmaniac> version I have given as 5.0-20070718-0ubuntu1
<jpatrick> no the version :)
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, in controls I have given the source name as alliance and package as alliance-5.0-20070718. right?
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: odd, try 5.0~svn20070718-0ubuntu1 in changelog
<jpatrick> (if it uses svn)
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, if I remove the folder named desktop from the debian directory, then it goes ahead in building the package but fails while icons
<tuxmaniac> creating icons I mean
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: oh, have you set rules to clean the created icons?
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, yeah seems like. Just saw it
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: works now? :)
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, there seems to be no clean up of icons in the clean rule. Adding one now.
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, still doesnt work. I am not sure whether I did the right thing. I guess I will remove the Desktop folder from the debian directory. Comment all related rules and build once and re add things after that
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: why is there a Desktop folder in debian/ ?
<tuxmaniac> that was my next question? Can there be one. The original packager seems to install icons from this folder.
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, :-)
<jpatrick> very odd
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, there is also a man folder which makes me feel even odd.
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: are there binaries in there?
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, cleaning things up. Its already on revu but fails to build on Hardy pbuilder. Now after a monor src change it builds on hardy. After which I started cleaning stuff to comply with Ubuntu/Debian Packaging guide and things didnt look great after that
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, there are a few man pages, icons and a few shell scripts in there
<jpatrick> hmm
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, i want to get this "NEW" package badly into Hardy. Will help a lot of Electronic Students and enable more contribution if available in Ubuntu
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: I'd say, mv debian ../ and redo the tarball
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: see then put debian back in at see if it works
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick, hmm ok. I think thats the clean way out.
<tuxmaniac> bddebian, hola!
<geser> nixternal: Hi, you added libmotif-dev (multiverse) to build-depends for pdfedit (universe). That doesn't work, can it be build with lesstif?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi tuxmaniac
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<blueyed> Hi bddebian et al.
<bddebian> Hello blue
<bddebian> Err blueyed
<blueyed> Is there a way to cache the build result when using (p)debuild? - I mean, pdebuild can take a while and if you are testing just if a patch builds cleanly, this is quite a lot of time.. or should I use "debian/rules binary" then instead?
<blueyed> bddebian: tab-enter? :)
 * jonnymind is away: dinner
<bddebian> blueyed: Aye :-)
<nixternal> geser: sure, build with what works of course :)
<bddebian> blueyed: I don't know about pdebuild but pbuilder takes a --logfile option
<nixternal> weird that it doesn't work when pdfedit actually deps on it according to their docs
<bddebian> Or is that not what you meant?
<geser> nixternal: pdfedit is now in depwait on libmotif-dev
<blueyed> bddebian: pdebuild is pbuilder (and similar to debuild in that regard). I'd just like to make the build as fast as possible (e.g. no "clean").
<blueyed> bddebian: yes, logfile is not what I'm after.. :)
<geser> nixternal: we have 3 options: move pdfedit to multiverse :(, check if building with lesstif2-dev works, drop libmotif-dev from b-d again
<nixternal> ahh, I don't want to do that honestly
<dmb> nixternal: have it use lesstiff?
<nixternal> use whatever will keep it in universe
<dmb> nixternal: well, do you know if it builds with lesstiff?
<nixternal> haven't tried it, the reason I went with the libmotif-dev was because the developer said to use it
<superm1> jpatrick, you present still?
<dmb> nixternal: it looks like pdfedit uses qt3, boost and xlib
<dmb> are you sure it requires motif?
<nixternal> it will build w/o it, that I do know, but there were issues trying to build something w/o it
<nixternal> I would drop libmotif-dev and go back to the way it was done previously
<dmb> nixternal: i'll test to see if it would build with lesstif, just because i'm curious
<nixternal> I am sure it will...if it doesn't need it, then it will ignore it
<dmb> nixternal: version 0.3.2?
<nixternal> whatever the latest is
<dmb> yes
<slangasek> imbrandon: "community marketing" likes breaking continuity of wiki history, and wants people to think that only pages under "help" are helpful? :)
<dmb> nixternal: is there a way i can check if the motif component was built?
<nixternal> dmb: I just went through that entire package and couldn't find any reference to *motif* at all
<nixternal> not package, but the source code
<dmb> oh
<jpatrick> superm1: I am now
<superm1> jpatrick, ah okay.  would you have a moment to look over a bug?
<superm1> i'm going to be gone the next week and a half, so i wanted to get a backporter to look at it for troubles before i left
<superm1> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/180633
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180633 in feisty-backports "Please backport xmltv 0.5.49-1 to Feisty (from gutsy)" [Undecided,New]
 * jpatrick looks
<jpatrick> superm1: and none of the rdeps of libxml-twig-perl are affected?
<superm1> well i wouldn't imagine so, but let me take a look at its changelog
<superm1> between revisions
<superm1> well they are all bug fixes except for one possible compatibility change
<superm1> i'm not sure what the easiest way to query the other apps using that change however. hmm
<jussi01> OK, its been a while since I have done stuff, can someone remind me of the command to extract source from a .dsc?
<man-di> jussi01: dpkg-source -x ....dsc
<jussi01> man-di: thanks :)
<ScottK> jussi01: or dget -x ....dsc if it's elsewhere
<superm1> jpatrick, yeah i guess it will be a bit difficult to evaluate those rdepends considering the compatibility change
<guest22> Since I see there's at least one MOTU hanging around, this seems like a good time to make another request for a review of photoml (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=photoml)
<LaserJock> anybody know if it's possible to turn off RSA host key checking in ssh for a particular ip/host?
<ion_> Why do you want to do that?
<LaserJock> because
<LaserJock> I'm dual booting
<LaserJock> and ssh keeps complaining about the key
<ion_> Why not install the same host key to both installations?
<LaserJock> hmm, that would make entirely too much sense ;-)
<jussi01> TheMuso: whats my next move with that debdiff ?
<TheMuso> jussi01: Well once/if it has been tested and known to be working, I'd file a bug, and attach the diff. Then subscribe ubuntu universe sponsors.
<jussi01> TheMuso: ok. the bug is filed. Ill attach the diff once i have a tested working copy :)
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> It often makes sense to only file the bug once you have a debdiff you are happy with, but to each their own.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<DarkSun88> persia: Ping
<imbrandon> slangasek: unfortunately, yes
<imbrandon> heh
#ubuntu-motu 2008-01-06
 * TheMuso grumbles at there being no Contents-$arch.gz for hardy
<TheMuso> on any mirror.
<geser> TheMuso: afaik the Contents file isn't generated yet for hardy but I don't remember why
<TheMuso> geser: I can see its not being generated... I guess another soyuz bug.
<LaserJock> seems like that always happens for the devel release
 * persia notes that Contents.gz is intentionally not provided at the beginning of a release cycle due to the expected massive changes, but that post-DIF it likely ought be enabled, and someone may have forgotten.
<LaserJock> ah, that makes sense
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: wow, there's now an octave3.0 package
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: There is.
<Fujitsu> And we didn't sync it because it broke the upgrade path, IIRC.
<LaserJock> oh? how so?
 * Hobbsee waves
<persia> LaserJock: Bug #178424
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178424 in octave2.9 "Please sync octave3.0 3.0.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178424
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't see how that's a problem
<persia> users not being able to upgrade?
<LaserJock> why would they not be is my question
<LaserJock> octave3.0 conflicts/replaces 2.9
<LaserJock> but there's nothing that says that an upgrade would give you 3.0
<Fujitsu> I believe the problem was that there is no octave metapackage any more.
<persia> LaserJock: No "octave" virtual package.  Just needs a small change for a merge, in my opinion.
<LaserJock> but why not use the package from 2.9?
<persia> (but someone should probably check with the Debian Octave maintainers to make sure we don't interfere with some cunning plan)
<LaserJock> I was just thinking that current 2.9 users would get 2.9
<LaserJock> and if people want to install 3.0 they can do that themselves
<persia> LaserJock: octave2.9 is scheduled for removal from Debian (and we'd probably want to follow if we import octave3.0)
<LaserJock> yeah, that would be the problem
<LaserJock> wait
<LaserJock> the changelog says: "Dropped the empty octave package.  This will allow
<LaserJock>      releasing octave3.0 without an epoch in its version number.  We will
<LaserJock>      reintroduce this package later, if necessary (anyway, octave3.0
<LaserJock>      provides octave)."
<LaserJock> does the provides make it upgradable?
<persia> LaserJock: Give it a test.
<persia> (create gutsy chroot, install octave, upgrade to hardy with an extra repo including octave3.0, see if it breaks)
<persia> Ah.  Wait.  I understand now.  1:2.9.18-1ubuntu1 >> 3.0.0-1.  That's frustrating.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi persia
<ScottK2> LaserJock: I've got another one for you if you have a moment.
<LaserJock> k
<ScottK2> I need a couple of minutes to fix it.  I missed that a package had moved from Universe to Main and so it needs a few adjustments
<ScottK2> LaserJock: The updated package can be dgetted (dgotten) from http://www.kitterman.com/test/libnet-server-perl_0.97-0ubuntu1.dsc
<ScottK2> It's signed.
<persia> dgotten?  English is annoying flexible and irregular :)
<zul> hey
<ScottK2> LaserJock: There is also http://www.kitterman.com/test/libnet-server-perl_0.97-0ubuntu1_source.changes if you want it.
<bddebian> Is a watch file really worth a delta with Debian?
<persia> bddebian: Only for orphaned packages.
<LaserJock> ScottK: hmm, you upload the diff.gz with it? I get 404
<ScottK2> Urgh checking
<ScottK2> LaserJock: It's there now.  Sorry about that
<persia> Does Malone support virtual packages?  I'm thinking it might be nice to havea  virtual package against which needs-packaging bugs are filed, so as to create the ability to subscribe to the package as an ad-hoc mailing list for packaging work that needs doing.
<LaserJock> ScottK: Donald?
<Fujitsu> persia: It does not.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah ... well I tried that
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  I shan't propose such a thing to a wider forum then.
<Fujitsu> You can only file bugs on SourcePackageNames that are published in a distribution.
<LaserJock> I went from "virtual package just like wnpp" -> "project for wnpp" -> "tag it"
<persia> Ah.  So the discussion has been had before.  The annoying bit being that one cannot subscribe to a tag.
<Hobbsee> persia: not unless you actually upload a virtual package of nothing
<Hobbsee> make a package called needs-packaging or something.  put it in the archive.  *shrug*
<Fujitsu> Bug #151129
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151129 in malone "Can't subscribe to a tag" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151129
<Ng> is it correct to assign a new needs-packaging bug to MOTU (it covers the thing I'm working on)
<persia> Hobbsee: That's just wrong.  Uploading the needs-packaging package which only provides changelog, copyright, and README.gz is not the right solution.
<persia> Ng: No.  Correct to assign to yourself, as you're working on it.
<Hobbsee> persia: i didn't say it was right.  i just said it would do what you were asking :P
<Fujitsu> persia: Well, one could upload, and then remove it again immediately.
<Ng> persia: okidoki, thanks
<Fujitsu> Once there is any kind of SourcePackagePublishing, it will be filable, but that's a bug.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hmm.  Then it would be there, but not distributed.  Hobbsee: would you collude in such a dance?
 * Fujitsu prefers being able to subscribe to tags.
<Hobbsee> persia: define distribubted in this case?
<Hobbsee> persia: it woudl be yet another universe package
<persia> Hobbsee: That would be distributed.
<LaserJock> I think being able to subscribe to tags is a sane idea
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, that's a more general solution.  Too bad it's still New.
<Hobbsee> persia: yes, but how many packages are in universe again?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: So does mpt, apparently.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: far too sane to be implemented.
 * Hobbsee ducks
<persia> Hobbsee: About 15,000.  Which we support.
<Hobbsee> fsvo support, anyway
<Hobbsee> but yes
 * persia considers confiscating Hobbsee's MOTU badge
<LaserJock> heh
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Yes.  Scott is my middle name.
 * Hobbsee waves her core-dev badge around
<Hobbsee> core-dev trumps MOTU, i'm afraid
 * Fujitsu looks with dismay at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/universe.html#removedfromA
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Core-dev gets you upload to anywhere, so losing MOTU wouldn't affect much, except that it would indicate you don't have the appropriate positive attitude about supporting all of universe :)
<Hobbsee> *grin*
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm likely to start hitting that next week, but would be more than happy if you want to start sooner :)
 * Hobbsee has reservations with how some of MOTU works.  Therefore, she's less likely to feel an active part of it.
<Hobbsee> still, i don't see how a metapackage would actulaly need supporting, per se.
 * persia has reservations with how some of core works, and doesn't intend to start participating soon.
<Hobbsee> or what the problem is of addign one more, when there's 15K already.
<LaserJock> ScottK: does libnet-server-perl have any current core dev owner? I won't be stepping on any toes?
<persia> Hobbsee: It's a non-package.  It oughtn't really be there.  Publishing and removing would allow one to file bugs, but publishing and letting die only makes more work for those of us who try to trim the edges.
<ScottK2> LaserJock: There isn't currently an Ubuntu diff.  We get it from Debian and the Debian maintainer isn't an Ubuntu person, so I'd think not.
<LaserJock> k
<Fujitsu> Do we know when ajmitch returns, so we might be able to have rcbugs going again?
<nenolod> Hobbsee, transmission 1.0 is out if you're interested in bumping it (but it's not in Debian yet)
<persia> He indicated about three weeks around 22nd December, so I'm guessing "soon".
<Fujitsu> Thanks persia.
 * persia is anxiously awaiting the return of RCbugs :)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: i don't see the point in duplicating work like that
<LaserJock> ScottK: did you comment that it was uploaded to hardy in bug #69895 because I'm doing it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 69895 in postgrey "crashes when syslog is not available" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69895
<nenolod> Hobbsee, right. i'll tell the debian maintainer that 1.0 is out. ;)
<ScottK2> LaserJock: I commented that it was uploaded because I didn't notice it had moved to main and uploaded it.
<LaserJock> ah, k
<nenolod> oh.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, 1.0 is incoming
<bddebian> w00t, on build 200 of newpki-client...
<persia> ScottK: Isn't that more easily done with a changelog entry?
<ScottK2> LaserJock: After it bounced, I came looking for you...
<ScottK2> persia: What?
<nenolod> so, i'll just update bug 180534 to a sync bug
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180534 in transmission "Please update transmission to latest version (1.0)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180534
<nenolod> ;)
<persia> ScottK: Closing bugs for uploads.
<ScottK2> I didn't mark 69895 fixed
<ScottK2> my changelog marks bug #177408 fixed
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177408 in libnet-server-perl "Please upgrade to 0.97" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177408
<persia> ScottK: My mistake.  Sorry.
<ScottK2> No trouble.
<ScottK2> I was messing with libnet-server-perl because I'm working on getting amavisd-new into Main for Hardy and I'm making sure all the depends are in good shape and in Main also.
<LaserJock> ScottK: done
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Thanks.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/+bug/180534 -- if you want to bump it again. it builds fine in my pbuilder.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180534 in transmission "Please sync transmission_1.00-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK2> nenolod: I thought you said it wasn't in Debian yet?
<nenolod> ScottK2, it's in incoming
<ScottK2> Ah.
<nenolod> actually it just moved out of incoming a while ago into unstable
<ScottK2> OK.
<LaserJock> man, I've done a lot of dput'ing today
<nenolod> (so it can be pulled from merkel, but not from the main pool)
<nenolod> (which is where i picked it up)
<LaserJock> ScottK: \o/ 3 Main upload is just over 3 hrs ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: If you're going for volume, you may find that dput *source.changes can be surprisingly helpful.
<nenolod> haha
<ScottK2> Thanks for all the help LaserJock.
<LaserJock> no problem, glad i could be of some service
<LaserJock> hmm, we have iceape but not iceweasel?
<LaserJock> anybody have an opinion on "s/iceweasel/firefox/" vs "add firefox|" for dependent packages?
<persia> LaserJock: I like "add firefox |" to support future gobuntu plans if they choose iceweasel over epiphany (currently under debate, I believe)
<LaserJock> hmm, does epiphany use firefox plugins?
<persia> LaserJock: In some limited ways, but not really.
<Nafallo> LaserJock: it has it's own plugin package basically.
<Nafallo> LaserJock: it can use flash and stuff though.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I've got a package that creates a mozilla plugin
<LaserJock> and in debian it uses iceweasel | iceape | xulrunner
<LaserJock> and it build-deps on libxul-dev
<ScottK2> For Hardy, I think the idea is to use xulrunner
<persia> Be careful there.  F3 is xulrunner1.9, which is not xulrunner.
<persia> ScottK: Yes.
<LaserJock> I'm assuming that the build-dep on libxul-dev will work for everything
 * persia thinks the API may be different, and suggests checking in -mozillateam
<LaserJock> some I was just gonna do firefox | iceweasel | iceape | xulrunner
<Fujitsu> xulrunner-1.9-dev is the 1.9 dev package.
<LaserJock> but I wondered about epiphany
<LaserJock> sorry for the ignorance, but should I care about F3 and xulrunner1.9? are they default in Hardy?
<Fujitsu> Fx3 isn't default yet.
<Fujitsu> They are planned to be, though.
<Fujitsu> (Fx3 uses xulrunner-1.9, rather than an embedded Gecko)
<LaserJock> hmmpf
<LaserJock> I hate mozilla stuff
<LaserJock> and I can never get anything from mozilla team
<bddebian> Shite, I think my pbuilder is screwed up, I don't know if I can help with UUS persia :(
<LaserJock> bddebian: what'd you do now?
<bddebian> Dunno :-(
<bddebian> It act like it's having issues resolving archive.ubuntu.com
<bddebian> acts..
<LaserJock> but your machine is fine?
<bddebian> Yeah.  In fact in pbuilder-login it acts fine.  I'm not getting it.. :-(
<LaserJock> weird
<LaserJock> bddebian: paste the output?
<bddebian> Yeah and pbuilder update works but not build.. wtf
<persia> bddebian: Maybe pbuilder finally died for you.  You might try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto (there's a handy script in ubuntu-dev-tools to make this pointlessly easy)
<bddebian> This is craziness: http://paste.debian.net/46256
<LaserJock> man, I *still* have a hard time remembering changelog-closes-bug
<persia> bddebian: Maybe some irregularity between arch: i386 and arch: all ?  (Yes, this should never happen)
 * persia requests people check other bugs on a package when preparing a new revision.  While it's also nice to fix other outstanding issues, there is really no point to requesting an update to a package that is scheduled for removal.
<LaserJock> persia: one last chance to get a changelog entry? ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: Cause for rejection of the candidate, in my book.
<persia> Vorian: Please check your changes files.  This will be the last set of packages for which I manually add the extra characters to close the LP bugs.
<Vorian> persia: I can do that.
<persia> Does anyone use transmission?  Bug #180534 is likely good, but might do well with some testing.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180534 in transmission "Please sync transmission_1.00-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180534
<tuxmaniac> Good morning all. I have been struggling with this error message since yesterday night and unable to resolve the issue. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50934/
<tuxmaniac> when I try to remove the Desktop folder inside the debian directory it builds fine but fails at the creating icons stage due to the rules present.
<tuxmaniac> When I add this directory back it fails even before building giving the above pastebinned error
<tuxmaniac> any pointers?
<tuxmaniac> I see that this occurs while building the diff.gz
<ScottK> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source is what is killing you
<ScottK> You are doing something that pdkg-source thinks is changing a binary file.
<ScottK> That'd be dpkg-source, of course
<bddebian> Gah, I finally get my pbuilder fixed and the freakin' power runs out :(
<persia> tuxmaniac: Could you paste debian/rules?
<LaserJock> bddebian: bummer man
<tuxmaniac> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50935/
<tuxmaniac> bddebian, hahah
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock, hi. Long time no see. :-) Hope you "break" was fun
<LaserJock> heh ... something like that
<LaserJock> wow, a long description that includes 23 lines of help/usage instructions
<persia> tuxmaniac: From where are the .png files originating?  I don't see them.
<tuxmaniac> persia, I dont understnad what you are asking :-( They are in a desktop folder inside debian directory
<tuxmaniac> if thats what you want
<persia> tuxmaniac: Does your orig.tar.gz differ from http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/alliance-0709221900/alliance_5.0.orig.tar.gz ?
<persia> If so, does your orig.tar.gz contain a debian/ directory?
<tuxmaniac> persia, yes
<tuxmaniac> persia, orig does not contain debian/
<tuxmaniac> persia, i removed it. is that wrong?
<persia> tuxmaniac: You removed it?  Did you have to repack for other reasons (licensing, zip file, etc.)?  If not, it is wrong.
<tuxmaniac> persia, changed some stuff and now its building fine on Hardy before I started "cleaning" up stuff :-D
<tuxmaniac> Since this is the first package, I thought the orig should be "ditto" to src tarball and should not contain any contaminations?
<persia> orig should be exactly the file distributed by upstream, whenever possible.  If upstream has a debian/, someone should tell them to remove it.
<nenolod> persia, my patch worked for you as well?
<nenolod> persia, i'm glad to hear that :)
<persia> nenolod: Yes.  Crashes gone.  Thank you very much.  Please also forward the patch to Debian, GNOME, and the gtk maintainers.
<nenolod> persia, yeah. i'm going to send the patch on to bugzilla.gnome.org now. thanks for testing. :)
<LaserJock> dang it, forgot my orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> some days I hate packaging
<nenolod> persia, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507605
<ubotu> Gnome bug 507605 in recent-files "[patch] gtk_recent_files_menu_populate() does not guard properly against recursion" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<persia> nenolod: Be sure to register that in Malone :)
<nenolod> persia, done
<persia> Excellent.  I don't know if it will make hardy, but expect it soon enough.
<nenolod> well, that patch needs to go into the gtk+ we ship in hardy, as it fixes a fairly nasty bug
<nenolod> (not that the bug affects me anymore, mind.)
 * nenolod sends to debian too
<persia> nenolod: You might subscribe the main sponsors then, to request upload.
<nenolod> persia, yep
<crimsun> you probably want to just ping lool or slomo, then
<crimsun> they already have an upload pending for a gdkpixbuf issue
<crimsun> (on the Debian side)
<Hobbsee> now, how do i get a program into the add/remove list?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: gnome-app-install?
<Hobbsee> does that just require mvo rerunning his script, or?
<Fujitsu> That works by .desktops.
<Hobbsee> Unlike Ubuntu Restricted Extras and Kubuntu Restricted Extras, in Gutsy Xubuntu does not have an entry in Add/Remove... for its restricted extras.
<Fujitsu> Give you app a .desktop, and wait for mvo to rerun his script.
<Hobbsee> none of them have desktop files!
<persia> Hobbsee: Then you've a few packages to update :)
<Hobbsee> persia: but..but...the other 2 are already there, and don't have .desktop files in their sources at all
<Fujitsu> Perhaps there are some that have their .desktop's in the app-install-data source.
<persia> Hobbsee: You might try http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/generate-desktop.bash.  It's old and crufty, but leverages the debian/menu files to get some templates prepared.
<Hobbsee> ah, yes
<persia> Fujitsu: Quite a large number, actually :(
<Fujitsu> persia: Urrgh. Why?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you're correct.  do i have to put x-r-e in there manually, or mvo's script picks it up?
 * Hobbsee thought mvo had a script for that
<persia> Fujitsu: Base pragmatism, really.  On the other hand, for things like apache, I agree with that approach, as a menu file isn't appropriate.
<LaserJock> weird, requestsync just got totally the wrong version to sync
<Fujitsu> Ah, perhaps.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you were expecting an experimental version?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I was expecting 0.8.5-1 and I got 0.6.6-3
<LaserJock> which is really ancient
<LaserJock> hmm, do I have to have sid deb-src lines for requestsync to work right?
<Fujitsu> As far as I know it uses rmadison.
<persia> LaserJock: Yes.
<LaserJock> which is it?
<LaserJock> :-)
<persia> I thought it used rmadison for versions, and sid deb-src for changelog.  Does it use changelogs.debian.org now?
<Fujitsu> It has always used changelogs.d.n, AFAIK.
 * persia uses requestsync once per release, and has yet to be satisfied
<LaserJock> well, ok here's the thing
<LaserJock> the changelogs it picks up are right
<LaserJock> but in the subject text and first paragraph it get's it wrong
<Hobbsee> right.  u-r-e finally updated
<Hobbsee> no more bugs in it, either
<persia> LaserJock: What does rmadison -u debian $package tell you?  I remember someone complaining about an issue where it wasn't in sync in all architectures in Debian.
<LaserJock> ohhh
<LaserJock> gchempaint |    0.6.6-3 |      unstable | m68k
<LaserJock> gchempaint |    0.8.4-2 |      unstable | mips, mipsel, s390
<LaserJock> gchempaint |    0.8.5-1 |      unstable | source, alpha, amd64, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
<LaserJock> is it picking up the m68k line?
<Fujitsu> Ah, probably.
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't it be using `-a source' or something
<Fujitsu> *?
 * persia continues to deprecate requestsync as relying too much on the delicate Debian infrastructure, encouraging laziness (if you're testing and building, you have the source and changelog locally), and failing to hint about requirements for syncs as each freeze passes.
<persia> Fujitsu: Doesn't matter.  Not supported by p.qa.d.o at this time.  Kmos reported a bug, but I don't know where.
<LaserJock> persia: I just use it to get the format right since people seem to be more picky these days
<persia> LaserJock: Format is simple.  "Please sync $package $version ($component) from $source_dist ($component)".  Rationale section describing any dropped ubuntu variation, reason for any freeze exception, and confirming testing.  Changelog since last version imported into Ubuntu.
<LaserJock> yeah, well I don't do syncs that often and people get irritated if you accidentally miss $component or something
<persia> Ah.  Yes.  $component for Ubuntu is important to help determine who needs to ACK (less important for you).  $component in sync_source is important to get the right thing.
<persia> On the other hand, the vast majority of my non-sponsored uploads are sync requests, so maybe I have a different viewpoint than others.
<LaserJock> right but at least 99.9% of the time $source_dist ($component) is Debian unstable
<persia> s/sponsored/sponsoring/
<persia> LaserJock: "Debian unstable (main)", yes.
<LaserJock> ah see ;-)
<LaserJock> nixternal: yo homey, I finally joined your Vista army when I got my new laptop ;-)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> new lappy ey?
<slangasek> ... "Vista army"?
<Fujitsu> !nixternal
<nixternal> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<LaserJock> nixternal: yeah
<LaserJock> the "Cancel or Allow" thing is driving me nuts
<LaserJock> how many dialog boxes do i have to go through just to open up a .exe
<nixternal> no less than 2
<ion_> Plop. A âCancel or Allowâ dialog box is about to pop up. Cancel or Allow?
<nixternal> lol
<persia> LaserJock: You do know that if you hadn't actually run it, you'd be eligible for a refund, right?
<LaserJock> I don't particularly care tbh
<LaserJock> I'll use it for some games maybe
<slangasek> oh, so this means LaserJock is actually /running/ Vista, how odd
<LaserJock> not at this moment
 * nixternal boots into vista to play some call of duty 4
<slangasek> persia: are people actually able to collect that refund these days?
<LaserJock> but until I put Ubuntu on it I gave it a spin, haven't not seen it
<nixternal> I did last year slangasek
<slangasek> I have two thinkpads I wouldn't mind a refund on :)
<nixternal> with XP
<Fujitsu> slangasek: I've heard of people doing it recently.
<slangasek> but in what countries?
<nixternal> US for me
<persia> slangasek: In some places, and from some resellers, yes.  More people pressing legal cases when the reseller ignores them would help.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> right, these are direct from Lenovo, probably not worth my effort then
<persia> slangasek: Why not?  If you've never installed, give them a call.
<LaserJock> how much do you get?
<persia> LaserJock: You ran it: you're no longer eligible :(  You have to have never used the software.
<LaserJock> persia: I know, I just wondered how much it's worth
<slangasek> how are you supposed to prove never having run it?
<persia> LaserJock: I think about half the cost of a retail copy.
<persia> nixternal: Didn't you blog about it?  Do you have the archive URL handy?
<Fujitsu> Isn't the key accepting the EULA in the OEM post-installation bit?
<LaserJock> persia: that's not bad.
<nixternal> don't know if I blogged about it
<nixternal> I got $97 back
<persia> nixternal: What evidence did you need to supply?
<nixternal> that you said no and removed anything from the hard drive...I took it to best buy and let them verify it for me
<nixternal> they will cancel your registration number for vista anyways, and you will know when that happens, as Vista becomes useless at that point supposedly
<Fujitsu> I think they turned that `feature' off a while back.
<Fujitsu> Because there were too many false-positives.
<slangasek> well, I never said no because I never booted it into Windows before wiping it
<slangasek> so I don't know what evidence I'd be expected to supply
<TheMuso> slangasek: Did wiping it include the recovery partition, if any?
<slangasek> sure
<slangasek> I don't want Windows to ever recover
<LaserJock> heh
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<TheMuso> So you obviously don't care about what you offer to someone who you may resell it to after its lived its useful live for you?
<TheMuso> i.e no OS to offer besides linux
<slangasek> I've never resold a computer
<persia> LaserJock: You forgot the Rationale section.  Why grant the freeze exception?  Does it work in hardy?
<TheMuso> slangasek: Ah ok then.
<slangasek> and I wouldn't do business with Windows users anyway. :)
<LaserJock> persia: :( I just did what request sync told me
<persia> TheMuso: I don't see how "no OS to offer besides linux" is a bad thing :p
<LaserJock> I've never sold a computer either
<guest22> Any MOTUs out there willing to review package photoml (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=photoml)? It's already been advocated once, and the remaining (hopefully) few issues pointed out by persia have been addressed in the most recent upload.
<LaserJock> I use them 'til they die
<persia> LaserJock: Yes.  I know.  That's part of why I don't like requestsync.
<TheMuso> persia: I would agree, but the sale may not be possible if people don't agree.
<ScottK> persia: What freeze are we in?
<LaserJock> ScottK: DIF
<persia> ScottK: Debian import freeze
<slangasek> anyway, if I were to resell a computer I'd market it as "own an Ubuntu laptop, as run by the release manager!"
<LaserJock> I don't think I need a rationale for DIF, but I should say that it worked in Hardy
<slangasek> >:)
<persia> As I understand it, all syncs are fine as long as we don't break lots of things (like if we synced octave3.0 without deeper investigation).
<LaserJock> sladen: heck yeah ;-)
<LaserJock> slangasek rather
<TheMuso> slangasek: haha
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Heheh.
<ScottK> persia: Doesn't that just mean it's not automatic.
<ScottK> There's no rule that says manual actions have to be justified.
<persia> ScottK: Not quite.  It needs an ACK from a member of ~ubuntu-dev.  I believe even members of ~ubuntu-dev should provide rationales for freeze exceptions (even if it's just "I think it's a good idea" or "I want latest upstream") just for documentation purposes.
<persia> Non-members of ~ubuntu-dev are generally required to provide a rationale to convince a member of ~ubuntu-dev to ACK.
<ScottK> persia: I understand you think that, but we don't have any actual process requirements to that effect do we?
 * nenolod subscribes ubuntu-main-sponsors to bug 180463
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180463 in gtk+2.0 "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in idle_populate_func()" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180463
<LaserJock> it's basically the lowest Freeze barrier possible
<persia> ScottK: Process requirements?  No.  There's not even a requirement for a sync request bug at this point.
<ScottK> Personally, I think DIF is poorly named
<ScottK> It's really just the end of autosync
<persia> Especially for an LTS, I think we should really be considering updated applications to make sure they don't break things.  sid is rough sometimes.
<persia> Maybe.  Our release manager noted that any further syncs would be "Freeze Exceptions" when announcing DIF.
<LaserJock> that's quite odd, IMO
 * persia points at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-December/000359.html
<ScottK> Fortunately for me, I haven't been warned by the MC not to do anything, so I can do whatever I want as we've established that one must be warned before being kicked out now.
<LaserJock> ScottK: ;p
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: Can you please avoid touching sync bugs that are filed by MOTU? It creates unnecessary spam, and isn't particularly useful.
<persia> ScottK: You're a member of ~ubuntu-dev.  By my proposed freeze exception process (ACK'd by a release manager), you can sync whatever you want.
<LaserJock> persia: yes, that was, IMO, a bit unfortunate
<ScottK> persia: The MOTU process for deciding process isn't go ask an RM.
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  Would you prefer a more restrictive freeze exception process?
<persia> ScottK: Right, which is why my proposed freeze exception process isn't policy.
<slangasek> persia: which should have read "merging packages that haven't yet been merged for hardy is a freeze exception", mumble 3am mails
<LaserJock> persia: we've *never* had such a freeze
<LucidFox> Fujitsu> How do I know if it's filed by a MOTU?
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Blame email sent at 3am :)
<ScottK> persia: Please let's stop inventing more freezes and reviews
<LaserJock> DIF has always been "no more autosyncs"
<persia> ScottK: I didn't.  I don't seek to do so.  Even aside from all that, I still think Rationale is good practice.
<slangasek> wasn't there a follow-up mail in there somewhere that said "yes, it's an exception to the freeze; anyone with the corresponding upload rights is still allowed to use their own judgement"?
<LaserJock> we've never had to file exceptions before UVF
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: If they've confirmed it themselves, they're probably a MOTU. If in doubt, click on their name and check, or get the Greasemonkey script that displays karma and related emblems.
<LucidFox> All right.
<slangasek> LaserJock: it was never intended that the exceptions should need to get filed anywhere special
<persia> slangasek: Yes.  That was my proposed freeze exception process.
<LaserJock> DIF is poorly named, as it isn't a freeze really
<guest22> persia: Could you please take a look over the new upload of photoml to make sure all of your concerns have been addressed? While you mentioned that you preferred not to officially review it again, it would be good to know whether one of the pickier MOTUs considers it acceptable so that I can address any remaining issues ASAP.
<persia> guest22: My memory is that you fixed a couple niggles, and were planning to fix the rest upstream for the next release.  I'm likely happy.
<LaserJock> slangasek: well, a 0 barrier freeze is what's confusing about the DIF stuff, IMO
<LaserJock> we're saying "We are now in a Freeze and require exceptions, but exceptions are doing what you already do"
 * persia agrees with Laserjock, despite having a preference for stability and rationale
<LaserJock> persia: I would tend to think that that should be a general requirement ..
 * ScottK will forgo the usual rant on increased bureacracy in Ubuntu as it's just to painful.
<persia> ScottK: What rant?  Do you not agree with LaserJock?
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, tbh, it's only perceived increased bureaucracy. DIF has no practical consequences
<guest22> persia: Yes, that seems like a reasonable summary. When I uploaded the package addressing the issues you raised, the single advocacy was zeroed out, and the package dropped out of the lost of those close to being ready for acceptance. Any advice on how to request someone else to take a look at it for another review?
<ScottK> persia: I absolutely agree with laserjock.  I think your proposals are entirely off base and unnecessary.
<ScottK> I think that's agreeing with laserjock.
<ScottK> DIF just means that autosyncs don't happen anymore.
<persia> ScottK: My proposal was a workaround for the announced freeze.  It basically means "keep doing whatever you want".  I don't understand how that is bad, nor why you complain to me rather than the person who announced the freeze (who has publically retracted any requirements for the freeze).
<ScottK> OK.  Well I guess I didn't read his mail as changing policy and I misread your proposal as imposing additional requirements.  Sorry about that.
<slangasek> well, the one requirement is "syncs are now manual, so have to be filed as requests for ubuntu-archive to act"; so they are exceptions, but not intended to be any more burdensome or bureaucratic than before
<persia> ScottK: OK.  That makes more sense.  I in no way wanted to add additional requirements, rather the opposite.
 * Hobbsee thinks that by the time people have hit MOTU, they should have a fucking clue, and not screw up, and need all the freezes.
<Hobbsee> honestly.
<Hobbsee> well, all the documentation as to why they're putting something through all the freezes
<persia> Hobbsee: Freezes are a good thing.  Annoying exception processes are not.  Announced freezes help us focus on the things that need doing: first catch up with Debian & upstream, then settle and integrate everything, then fix as many bugs as we can.
<Hobbsee> exactly.  freezes good, but having to justify every single change for everything == bad.
<Hobbsee> you're a MOTU.  you've been doing that previously, and so are therefore good at it.
<Hobbsee> why continue, unless someone raises a complaint against you to the MC?
<ScottK> Of cource I've done 3 Main Inclusion Reports today, so I mail feel Ubuntu is more bureaucratic than usual right now.
<persia> I agree to that, although I personally like Rationale just so people can see what I was thinking without asking me when they wonder why some package was synced.
<ScottK> cource/course
<LaserJock> slangasek: right, I think the confusion was that that was what we've always been doing, but with out the "exception" which has the bureaucratic "needs sign-off by somebody" connotation
<LaserJock> I think the policing vs freedom/responsibility is an interesting one and is a "growing pain" we're gonna have to address
 * Hobbsee suggests only allowing competent people to become MOTU's, and everyone else still gets everything policed anyway.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That sounds ideal.
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure the answer can be that straightforward
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That wouldn't be fair to the incompetent people.
<Hobbsee> unless you want all MOTU's to be watching everyone else, round-robin style
<Hobbsee> ScottK: heh, why?
<ScottK> Because you deny them their god given right to be a MOTU
<LaserJock> the problem is that when we become large enough it becomes increasingly difficult to determine "competent" without getting into the "policing" stuff
 * Hobbsee gives ScottK the bott
<Hobbsee> er, boot
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: if competence is determined when they each become MOTU
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: still
 * persia notes that we're already too large to know each other properly, so policing has become required (unfortunately).
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: and if theres' a process to say "hey, someone's noticed errors in your work.  lets put you under surveilance"
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: of course, that doesn't stop the "good person, gone bad as they got lazy" problem
<LaserJock> you have to either trust people to vouch, have first hand-experience, or require some "test"
<Hobbsee> sure, but that appears to be working reasonably well lately, i think
<LaserJock> the first 2 become hard with a large group
<Hobbsee> true
<ScottK> Then you need a way to deal with mistakes
<LaserJock> the last is what everybody wants to avoid
<persia> And a means of censure for continued mistakes
<Hobbsee> ScottK: which was the other thing i proposed, yes.
<Hobbsee> "hey, someone's noticed errors in your work.  lets put you under surveilance"
<Hobbsee> which is made even easier, as you can just look thru changes mails
<Hobbsee> and bugs relating to them
<Fujitsu> Soyuz is even growing an automatic debdiff feature next release, to make it easier.
<Hobbsee> really?  nice!
<persia> How will "automatic debdiff" work for differing orig.tar.gz?  Just lots of output?  What about changed icons?
<Hobbsee> persia: it won't.
<ScottK> Of course pointing out problems isn't "Nice" and so that's to be avoided.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: when people are consistently screwing up, nice goes out the window anyway, at least to some extent
<persia> ScottK: How is pointing out problems to be avoided?  Raising problematic issues is important.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: This is unfortunately generally implicit in a volunteer community.
<ScottK> It's my perception that is someone is causing problems, people who try and get some attention on the matter get pretty thoroughly blown off until they get extraordinarily pointed about it.
<persia> ScottK: I think that the recent experience with that was a growing pain, and now that we have established a process, it will be less painful in the future.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if peple actually have access to the archvie, too, it automatically becomes a bigger priority
<ScottK> persia: I hope you are correct.  I'm not convinced
<Hobbsee> launchpad can be ignored, to an extent
<Hobbsee> ScottK: so, smash the MC with a hammer the next time it happens.
<persia> ScottK: I also hope I am correct.  We'll see in about 10 days.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Agreed in theory.  Such people also have more to lose and I can see people being more careful not to take away greater privileges.
<Hobbsee> and if not, by the end of the month....
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes, that's a point.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: but is it really taking away more?
<Hobbsee> it's being shoved back to reviews and such, but it's not being asked to leave
 * Hobbsee checks that her pitchforks and torches are all in good working order
<ScottK> Sure, but I suspect that's how people will view it.
<ScottK> Right.  That's the additional problem is that pitchforks and torches becomes the only way to deal with problematic people.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: No, the MC deal swiftly with problematic people, as we've seen.
 * persia thinks moving core-dev to MOTU or moving MOTU to Contributor for consistent poor quality control can be done in an encouraging manner.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: surely you lie.
<Hobbsee> persia: assuming those in power have the guts to do it, yes
<persia> Hobbsee: That's a different issue, but yes.
<ScottK> Given that there are people ON the MC who think testing SRU candidates before upload is optional, I don't hold out a lot of hope.
<persia> If there is a current MOTU with consistent poor quality, who has failed to respond to peer pressure, consider requesting MC to monitor activities for some time, and possibly ask to become Contributor.  If there isn't such a person, it's entirely theoretical, and doesn't matter as much (although I'd prefer to have a policy in place prior to a test case, personally).
<LucidFox> persia> All builds that depend on libfaac-dev seem to fail right now, so I'd wait until jdong or someone else uploads mpeg4ip and completes the libmp4v2 transition
<persia> LucidFox: sounds sane to me.  Just doesn't belong in UUS until then (as UUS is roughly equivalent to dput, except with extra review).
<ScottK> That's 4 MIRs done today.
<LaserJock> man, I always find it interesting when people triage my bugs
<ScottK> Heh.
<LaserJock> apparently my sync request was supposed to be "Triaged" and "Wishlist"
<LaserJock> so I had missing rationale, and bad status/importance
 * LaserJock goes to find a paper bag
<persia> LaserJock: Triagers shouldn't be triaging sync bugs from members of ~ubuntu-dev.  On the other hand, we should have a button we can press for a sync, with a small box to add a note.
 * ScottK gets well into MIR #5.  Discovers it has a universe build-dep (raising the total requirement from 7 to 8), gets frustrated, quits, and goes to bed.
<Fujitsu> Night ScottK.
<ScottK> Good night.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i've been trying to discourage that for a while, yes.
 * Hobbsee thinks tha'ts a lartable offense
<Hobbsee> also, it would be nice to display karma values and icons of everyone by default.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> what if we could -5 somebodies karma? :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: who was it/
<ChrisGibbs> Hobbsee gone for the night?
<DarkMageZ_> it's only 8:40ish over there. probably not.
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | It's REVU Day.  Packagers, be sure your candidates are up to date.  Reviewers, let's repeat last week and review everything.
<persia> 17 Candidates up this week, and 72 packages needing work.
<minghua> Hmm, REVU day again.
 * minghua is always caught off-guard. :-)
<ion_> persia: Re: your comments about bumping version to 0.0.2: i had already tagged and released 0.0.1, and after it i was told it would be a good idea to add licensing information to the man pages as well, so i did that and released 0.0.2. Iâll take care of the copyright years and the install target whenever i touch the software/package the next time.
<persia> ion_: OK.  No rush.
<ion_> persia: Btw, whatâs the progress with apt-mark-sync? Should i receive an email when an archive admin approves/disapproves it?
<ion_> Also, should i request an archive admin to take a look at it, or just wait patiently?
<persia> ion_: Usually you'd get an email from the rejecting archive admin if it was rejected, and an Accepted message from the archive itself if it is accepted.  Better not to bother them.
<ion_> All right, thanks.
<white> ion_: patience is a virtue :)
<white> . o O(one i do not possess)
<ion_> white: I have no problem with waiting, especially since that package is a very low-priority one. I was just wondering whatâs the standard procedure. :-)
<ion_> If i update the packaging of something already in Ubuntu to a new upstream release (e.g. atool to account for LP #94239), should it go through REVU?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 94239 in atool "Current version may cause files to be deleted inadvertently" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94239
<minghua> ion_: It's okay to use REVU if there's a new upstream version.  But a bug should also be opened and noted in REVU comments.
<ion_> Ok, thanks.
<minghua> ion_: For definitive answers, consult persia. :-)
<amarillion> Hello
<amarillion> I just created a new ubuntu package
<amarillion> I'd like to request a review
<Hobbsee> ChrisGibbs: no
<nenolod> good morning.
<minghua> amarillion: Where is the package?
<nenolod> amarillion, is it on revu?
<ChrisGibbs> Hobbsee: lol
<amarillion> I just dput'ed it on revu
<amarillion> It's called "speed"
<amarillion> I don't see it there yet
<nenolod> amarillion, also, you should consider contributing to debian
<nenolod> amarillion, yeah. revu cron doesn't run for another 2-3 minutes ;)
<amarillion> ah ok
<amarillion> sure, but one step at the time :)
<ChrisGibbs> Hobbsee: What is the deal with Wednesday? I followed the instructions for gpg and registered it with my launchpad account.
<Hobbsee> nenolod: uh, you can't confirm sync bugs - you're not a MOTU
<nenolod> Hobbsee, oops.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, sorry about that.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, i was half asleep.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, would you like me to fix the one where i accidentally marked it confirmed?
<Hobbsee> nah
<nenolod> it's transmission, right?
<Hobbsee> yes
<nenolod> someone once told me i should mark something as confirmed, so being half asleep i thought it was sync bugs ;)
<persia> nenolod: Current best practice is listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue: "Confirmed" for upload candidates, and "New" for approval requests.
<nenolod> persia, thanks. i'll memorize it ;)
 * persia wonders why it says "Incomplete" for sync requests, and thinks that might not be ideal
<nenolod> ok, New for sync, Confirmed for debdiff.
<nenolod> got it. ;p
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Re that ubuntu-dev-tools bug, I'm on it. I've fixed it in trunk, but nobody has uploaded a release for ages, so will do that now.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ahhh.  want me to release it?
 * Hobbsee has it here
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I'm doing that now.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: OK
<TheMuso> done.
<jpatrick> persia: why can't we have NMU versions for ubuntu-specific packs?
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: no more u-r-e bugs now, btw :D
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: how did you do the flash one?
<jpatrick> aha
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: duped it.
<RainCT> TheMuso: hi. have you already uploaded the new u-d-t version?
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: great
<TheMuso> RainCT: Yes.
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: therefore, not my problem.
<Hobbsee> hum.  my flash is obviously coming from somewhere.  probably something autoinstalled.
<Hobbsee> badger badger badger badger MUSHROOM MUSHROOM!
 * jpatrick 's flash as always worked fine
<ion_> Oh! A snake. :-\
<nenolod> Hobbsee, that flash still exists?
<Hobbsee> oh yes
 * Hobbsee uses it to test that her flash is working
<white> Hobbsee: hungry
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: can you upload http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/kmplayer/ for me?
<jpatrick> If so you'll need to -sa it - has Debian tar.gz
<amarillion> Oh, I just read this: "Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU"
<amarillion> This may explain why my package isn't there yet
<amarillion> so... could somebody re-sync the key ring?
<persia> amarillion: Sure.  Takes a little bit.  I'll let you know when it's done.
<amarillion> Ok, thanks persia
<amarillion> Signing up for the "contributors of packages for the universe team" is all I need to do on my side, right?
<nenolod> amarillion, yes
<persia> amarillion: And upload a key to LP.  Both of these are already complete, right?
<nenolod> oops
<amarillion> yes, I do have a key on LP already.
<nenolod> yeah, i assumed he had a key in LP ;)
<amarillion> I've used in the past for ppa
<nenolod> amarillion, GPG or SSH? :P
<nenolod> ah. GPG.
<amarillion> right, GPG
<stgraber> If someone has some time, please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libfprint (two other packages will be uploaded depending on this one)
<nenolod> stgraber, debian/control doesn't have Homepage: field.
<nenolod> stgraber, it is considered a best practice to include one.
 * persia thinks that's only true when upstream has a reasonable homepage (although the specific package hasn't been checked)
<nenolod> stgraber, debian/copyright points at GPL, it should probably point at GPL2 instead.
<nenolod> other than that, i don't see anything blazingly wrong with it
<nenolod> and what i mentioned is more nitpicking than actual fatal problems
<nenolod> oh
<nenolod> stgraber, you're missing a watch file too. it's generally best practice to include one.
<nenolod> oh.
<nenolod> oh oh oh.
<nenolod> stgraber, problem
<stgraber> ah ?
<nenolod> stgraber, http://www.reactivated.net/fprint/wiki/Libfprint says LGPL-2.1, your debian/copyright says it's GPL2.
<stgraber> oops
<nenolod> so do all of the above :D
<stgraber> ok, got to go for a while, will fix all that a bit later
<nenolod> stgraber, as for debian/watch, http://sf.net/project/libfprint-(.*)\.tar\.bz2 should do
<nenolod> (be sure to put version=3 above that line)
<nenolod> er.
<nenolod> project/fprint
<persia> amarillion: Keysync all done.  You should be OK now.
<amarillion> Shoud I dput my package again? I never got an email about it
<persia> amarillion: You wouldn't get email.  What is the package name?
<amarillion> speed
<amarillion> speed_1.00-0ubuntu1~ppa4 with version numbers
<persia> amarillion: You could try.  If it fails, you might need someone to delete it from the upload directory (I am unable to do so).  Also, you don't want to use a ppa version for a REVU upload.
<amarillion> ok. Does it matter that I clutter the changelog with these tiny changes
<amarillion> ?
<nenolod> amarillion, temporarily no.
<nenolod> amarillion, the final upload you will want to fix the changelog to just be the initial release entry
<persia> amarillion: Wiping the changelog is often one of the first requests when new packages go to REVU.  Also, the changelog should only have end-user interesting information (which includes significant changes, but not little things, especially for the initial upload).
<amarillion> Ok, so I'll worry about that later
<nenolod> amarillion, basically, if you find editing debian/changelog to be useful to you while creating the initial package, go ahead and do it, but clean it up when it's ready to go into ubuntu
<amarillion> Ok, I was wondering about the name of the package.
<amarillion> It's a tiny little game that was named "speed" by the original author
<amarillion> It has a single binary which is also named speed
<amarillion> I'm worried about potential name clashes. Maybe it's better to name it e.g. "speed-game"?
<nenolod> probably.
<persia> amarillion: To be safe you might.  Saves issues like those help by the current Debian epiphany maintainer, who is under considerable pressure to change the package name.
<persia> s/help/experienced/
<amarillion> epiphany isn't that generic is it?
<persia> amarillion: There's this browser you see, that people think should be called epiphany.
<nenolod> haha
<nenolod> amarillion didn't know about that
<amarillion> Well, I suddenly had an epiphany :)
<nenolod> amarillion, epiphany in debian/ubuntu is a game
<nenolod> o_O
<amarillion> Yeah I get it now :) Ok, speed-game it is then
<nenolod> persia, Ganneff is the maintainer of src:epiphany? i didn't know that. :)
<persia> nenolod: Don't know that nick, but the "Maintainer" is mostly a sponsor for the primary uploader, who is also the primary responder to bug reports.
<nenolod> persia, Ganneff = Joerg Jaspert
<persia> nenolod: Then, in name only.
<nenolod> he's one of the ftp-masters
<persia> (and my favorite, for the agressive removal activities)
<minghua> I think Joerg is ftp-master assistant, but it's not really important.
<Fujitsu> Joerg does a tonne of removals, and is to be liked for that, at least.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see persia already brought that up :(
<persia> Fujitsu: Why unhappy?  Consensus is good, no?
 * minghua likes Joerg for his processing NEW queue.
<Fujitsu> persia: I guess so!
 * minghua remembers that persia likes people agreeing with him.
<Fujitsu> Don't most, minghua?
 * nenolod is still in awe at how much firefox-3.0 doesn't suck
<minghua> Fujitsu: Yes, but somehow persia seems different to me.  Probably because he explicitly says it. :-)
<Fujitsu> nenolod: As am I.
<nenolod> i must be dreaming
<Fujitsu> It's so much better.
<nenolod> quick, someone shoot at their monitor so i wake up
<RAOF> Heh.
<nenolod> (i've actually had dreams where i was packaging stuff or working on code. it's scary.)
 * ion_ recalls the video where the Russian guy shoots arrows at a TFT screen.
<nenolod> ion_, that's an interesting way to play WoW.
 * persia likes that video, but thought it was a Ukrainian tech show.
<nenolod> is it on youtube?
<ion_> s/Russian/Cyrillic-writing/ :-P
<persia> Should be if it wasn't before.
<nenolod> Persia: is this it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seRWMd7tNAo
<persia> nenolod: Yes.
<nenolod> persia, that monitor is indestructible
<nenolod> that scares me.
<persia> Nah.  Just shoot it in the back.
<nenolod> haha, good point
<minghua> persia 1 : monitor 0
 * persia is good at breaking things :)
<nenolod> they should make windows (the see-through kind) out of that material though
<minghua> I'm sure bullet-proof windows use similar materials/techniques.
<persia> nenolod: They do, but sapphire gets expensive quickly.
<nenolod> that monitor surface is sapphire?
<minghua> nenolod: I believe so.
<nenolod> that must be one expensive monitor
<persia> nenolod: I can't seem to find the reference that told me that before, but that was what I remember.
<RAOF> Awww!  Why won't C# allow me to monkey patch a property into a class and have it work seamlessly.  Stupid compile-time checks :(
<persia> stgraber: "See above" no longer means "GPL".  Might be worth a quick re-upload to include an extra 'L'.
<persia> Then again, it might be worth addressing some of the other REVU comments :)
<amarillion> Yay, my package is on REVU
<amarillion> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=speed-game
<liri> can 'install' be used to copy directories somehow? it seems to error out with 'omitting directory' and the manpage doesn't cover any directory copy arguments
<persia> liri: man install talks about -d
<liri> I have given that a try though it didn't succeed
<persia> Maybe you need -D?
<liri> I'll give it another go
<minghua> Most of the time you should use dh_install than plain install, IMHO.
 * persia wonders if there is something like strace that tracks files touched
<minghua> persia: I think grepping "open()" in strace output would be an alternative solution.
<persia> minghua: That's what I'm doing, but it somehow doesn't seem as clean.
<amarillion> If there is a reviewer with some spare time around, please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=speed-game
<amarillion> please be gentle, it's my first :)
<liri> minghua: right, dh_install works much better, thanks :)
<liri> what about permissions and ownership though?
<persia> amarillion: I don't have time for a full review right now, but a quick look tells me 1) close a bug with the initial release, 2) target hardy rather than gutsy, 3) lexgrog is unhappy with the manpages, and you want \- and \)hy rather than '-', 4) You should add a watch file.
<persia> liri: dh_install tends to do the right thing.  Generally 644 or 755 root root.
<persia> You may need dh_fixperms afterwards, just in case.
<liri> persia: alright I'll check it after the build to see what permission it set
<\sh> moins
<\sh> guys...I just have a serious problem after upgrading a server with softraid1 and swap spaces on two different drives
<\sh> the upgrade path was dapper -> edgy -> feisty -> gutsy
<\sh> when I'm trying to do an swapon -a -e it tells me that /dev/sdaX and /dev/sdbX (which are the correct swap partitions) are invalid arguments
<amarillion> persia: thanks, regarding no 4: it's unlikely there will be a new version as the original author hasn't updated since 1999, and if he does, I can't predict where it will be
<\sh> did anyone see this behaviour ?
<Nafallo> anyone has anything to say about Maxtor Atlas 15K II?
<persia> amarillion: OK.  Best to document that somewhere (maybe README.Debian), as the lack of a watch file is considered a bug.  Might be worth taking over upstream, if you have an interest, and the original author doesn't.
<\sh> Nafallo: you need a good cooling device in your chassy
<mok0> \sh: no. I always make a 5G swap when installing
<stgraber> persia: yes, I'm working on it. You say : "Please close a bug with the initial upload", though the bug on LP is about the whole package set (3 packages), is it OK to close it once the 3rd is uploaded ?
<\sh> mok0: well, this is not the problem...but the setup is 1G for /dev/sda2 and /dev/sdb2 because the other parts are md devices
<\sh> mok0: so reading the kernel documentation you can set a priority..but somehow after upgrading from dapper to edgy this didn't work
<\sh> but the swap devices are working from a rescue (ramdisk) system perfectly
<mok0> \sh: did you try putting those two partitions in /etc/fstab?
<persia> stgraber: There ought be multiple tasks for that, which might get created properly by multiple closures in different packages.  Anyway, no harm to close it multiple times in case Malone can't handle it.
<\sh> mok0: they are in fstab yeah
<\sh> mok0:
<\sh> # /dev/sda2 -- converted during upgrade to edgy
<\sh> UUID=55c43374-ffec-45e2-9619-eea625b60ea6 pri=1 swap sw 0 0
<\sh> # /dev/sdb2 -- converted during upgrade to edgy
<\sh> UUID=0850f1bb-f8b0-452e-a69f-1af860967b93 pri=1 swap sw 0 0
<Nafallo> \sh: http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=37866&doy=6m1 <-- something like that?
<mok0> \sh: then you should be able to do swapon -a
<\sh> Nafallo: yepp :)
<\sh> mok0: well, I should...but it doesn't work
<\sh> mok0: the error messages tells me:
<\sh> # /dev/sda2 -- converted during upgrade to edgy
<\sh> UUID=55c43374-ffec-45e2-9619-eea625b60ea6 pri=1 swap sw 0 0
<\sh> # /dev/sdb2 -- converted during upgrade to edgy
<\sh> UUID=0850f1bb-f8b0-452e-a69f-1af860967b93 pri=1 swap sw 0 0
<bluekuja> persia, what happened to the FTBFS qa page?
<\sh> damn
<\sh> the error message is:
<\sh> root@h1337311:~# swapon -a -e
<\sh> swapon: /dev/sda2: Invalid argument
<\sh> swapon: /dev/sdb2: Invalid argument
<persia> bluekuja: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/?
<mok0> \sh: is the partition id correct?
<bluekuja> persia, yes
<bluekuja> persia, better to say, why all those packages are waiting another package?
<\sh> mok0: sure it is 82
 * persia doesn't know
<bluekuja> persia, look at the build logs
<\sh> Nafallo: http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=176681 is good for three of them :)
<bluekuja> persia, something went wrong with the buildds
<mok0> \sh: sda2 and sdb2 are not mounted i take it
<\sh> mok0: dude, I'm not stupid :) I know what to do ... but I think it's more a problem of the upgrade
<mok0> \sh: just checking :-)
<frenchy> If I'm writing an application and I want to make a variable changeable by a maintainer (of a different distro) then what's the best way to do this?  I figure you guys have to do this a bit.
<Nafallo> \sh: I only got an offer on one ;-)
<mok0> \sw: so you _did_ run mkswap
<\sh> mok0: the thing is, using the swap parts in a rescue system works perfectly...but not on the production gutsy...since edgy
<frenchy> Is it common for you guys to ./configure CXXFLAGS="-DBLAH=BLAH"?
<\sh> mok0: I made everything to get the swap parts running yes...it's only on the production system...and I wonder if it's not a problem in ubuntu
<mok0> \sh: I doubt it
<mok0> \sh: some stupid little thing probably
<\sh> mok0: another problem could be, that something went wrong during upgrade from dapper to edgy regarding the whole mdadm stuff...because sda1/sdb1 are md0 and sda3/sdb3 are md1 and the only parts which are not md parts are sda2/sdb2 marked as swap
<mok0> \sh: so, just to understand, you had the same system running before the upgrade, and it worked?
<mok0> \sh: a config file got overwritten?
<persia> bluekuja: The samples I looked at all have different missing packages, so I doubt it's something systemic (especially as I encountered a transient issue locally earlier today).  On the other hand, I don't understand why there aren't any FTBFS packages listed.  Last time I looked there was still over 800.
<mok0> \sh: perhaps mdadm.conf?
<bluekuja> persia, yeah, every FTBFS seems to be disappeared now and we have only that missing packages issue in all archs
 * persia also thinks "Needs Building" looks strangely light
<persia> geser: Any ideas?
<bluekuja> persia, we have failed to upload + missing packages only
<mok0> \sh: sorry for asking stupid questions, but I often find that it helps people find the problem.
<\sh> mok0: dapper worked as base install perfectly
<frenchy> Maybe I'll ask later ... looks like you got a big-budda-boom.
<\sh> mok0: the mdadm.conf is updated correctly...the swap partitions were never in mdadm.conf ... the kernel can pick up two swap devices perfectly...and it's better not to do a raid0 or raid1 for swap parts
<persia> bluekuja: Which, yes, doesn't provide for a nice worklist.  Perhaps http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/NBS/ can give you some tasks in the meantime?
<\sh> mok0: the raid devices are running perfectly :)
<mok0> frenchy: you can do it if no configure options are given by the developer
<DktrKranz> is someone is intrested in some FTBFS, there is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=qa-ftbfs-dash;users=debian-qa@lists.debian.org
<mok0> \sh: how much memory have you got?
<persia> frenchy: Have the upstream Makefile expect to be passed the variable, or use an option to configure.  If you go with the former, assign a sane default if none is provided.
<bluekuja> persia, yep, gonna move to the NBS page in the meantime then^^
<bluekuja> DktrKranz, nice one
<frenchy> persia: mok0: Thanks, I have a #ifndef ... #endif around it.
<\sh> mok0: 1G...so I need the swap space ;)
<mok0> \sh: ugh
 * persia is amused at the FTBFS wontfix bug for nn.
<frenchy> i.e. I set a default.  But other distros need different paths.
<\sh> mok0: btw..one of the commentors on http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-edgy-upgrade-common-problems-with-solutions.html has the same problem ... no swap space after upgrade from dapper to edgy
<DktrKranz> bluekuja, these one surely affects us, so coordinating with debian and provide patches will surely help
<Nafallo> Â£100 to get an additional 154GB in my server :-P
<persia> \sh: Common cause of that was the UUID shift, but should be able to be overridden by the mechanisms you've listed above.
<bluekuja> persia, the page you linked me got an error in the title (e.g pacakges)
<bluekuja> DktrKranz, yep, agreed
<persia> DktrKranz: ^^
<mok0> \me looks
<\sh> mok0: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-324969.html -> same problems...
<stgraber> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1162 I think I fixed everything
<mok0> \sh: in that ubuntuforums posting the problem was solved by running mkswap
<\sh> mok0: well yeah but mkswap tells me the same "invalid argument"
<\sh> mok0: or "device or resource is busy"...
<\sh> mok0: I do now the old style: /dev/sda2 etc..in fstab and reboot
<persia> stgraber: Use DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL in debian/rules rather than debian/docs to install the changelog.  Also, "GPL" still isn't "above".  Other than that, it also looks to me like you addressed everything (but I'm not doing any more full reviews for ~20 hours).
<mok0> \sh: good idea
<mok0> \sh: if it's busy it means it's mounted or reserved by the kernel
<mok0> \sh: did you check your md config?
<\sh> mok0: md config is correct :)
<\sh> mok0: the same error "invalid argument" with swapon -a -e
<mok0> \sh: that's weird...
<\sh> mok0: yepp
<mok0> \sh: is the installation ok?
<mok0> \sh: apt-get wise
<\sh> mok0: yepp
<mok0> \sh: try the fdisk -l that ryan talks about
<\sh> mok0: fdisk -l gives the correct answer :)
<\sh> mok0: it's all correct...I never saw this happen...
<mok0> \sh: neither have I, but it seems to be a problem with that UUID=... syntax
<mok0> \sh: ... and with hibernation, but I take it yours is a server
<\sh> mok0: I switch back to old style fstab so /dev/sda2 and /dev/sdb2
<mok0> \sh: yeah
<\sh> mok0: funny thing: mkswap /dev/sda2 gives me "device or resource busy"...so something is locking the device...
<\sh> mok0: but fuser gives me nothing
<mok0> \sh: hmmm. That must be investigated. Is the driver module loaded ok?
<mok0> \sh: perhaps the boot tries to mount swap before the driver is loaded and that causes a hangup
<\sh> mok0: which module should be loaded for swap?
<mok0> \sh: not for the swap, but for the sd** device (scsi?)
<\sh> mok0: well, it looks ok...but what's really strange is that the devices are locked now...I wonder from which process
<minghua> Can you use lsof on device files?
<mok0> \sh: can you umount -r or umount -l /dev/sda2 ?
<\sh> minghua: nothing for sda2 or sdb2...but for the raid devices..so it's fine
<\sh> mok0: not mounted
<mok0> \sh: can you mount it?
<\sh> root@h1337311:~# mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/
<\sh> /dev/sda2 looks like swapspace - not mounted
<\sh> so correctly "no" ;)
<mok0> \sh: can you mkswap /dev/sda2 ?
<\sh> mok0: as I said before: device or resource busy
<\sh> root@h1337311:~# mkswap /dev/sda2
<\sh> /dev/sda2: Device or resource busy
<mok0> \sh: cat /proc/swaps
<\sh> mok0: no swap space
<\sh> root@h1337311:~# cat /proc/swaps
<\sh> Filename				Type		Size	Used	Priority
<mok0> \sh: heh, kernel knows
<mok0> \sh: cat /proc/modules | grep sd
<\sh> root@h1337311:~# cat /proc/modules |grep sd
<\sh> sd_mod 39680 2 - Live 0xffffffff880ea000
<\sh> scsi_mod 179896 4 sg,3w_xxxx,libata,sd_mod, Live 0xffffffff880bd000
<mok0> \sh: looks pretty much like mine
<mok0> \sh: sda2 is not a USB disk, is it?
<\sh> mok0: I have a server here :)
<mok0> \sh: with real scsi disks
<\sh> mok0: I don't think so...it's just a plain rootserver
<\sh> so I think ide or sata
<\sh> 01:0e.0 RAID bus controller: Broadcom K2 SATA
<\sh> so sata
<mok0> \sh: not ide, then the device would be hd*
<Nafallo> ehrm. when did -motu become a supportchannel anyway?
<martoss> hi all, i have a cdbs related question. i set up a rules file according to  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<\sh> Nafallo: well, on #ubuntu no one runs a server ;) and here I know that people are running servers ;)
<Nafallo> Shoragan: -server
<\sh> Nafallo: -server is for development :)
<martoss> if i do a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot , i get include not found, althoug i can access the includes as my user.
<mok0> \sh: here's what I think you should try (if you can reboot the server a few times): try to make the machine forget all about sda2 as a swap partition -- remove it from /etc/disk, reboot, and see if you can mount it as swap manually
<Nafallo> s/Shoragan/\\sh/
<Nafallo> \sh: server related support as well.
<Nafallo> \sh: THIS channel is for development though
 * RainCT wonders wheter bug #180788 is valid?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180788 in openafs "Please change: Don't build on "lpia" arch." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180788
<\sh> Nafallo: if it happens that I felt over https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/66637 I'll go to -devel and discuss it with keybuk :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66637 in util-linux "After running mkswap, swap space is discarded, system fails to hibernate (invalid swap signature)" [High,Confirmed]
<Nafallo> Shoragan: haha
<mok0> sorry for spamming the channel with a non-devel discussion, we can take it elsewhere. \sh?
<Nafallo> gaah!
<Nafallo> s/Shoragan/\\sh/g
<amarillion> persia: you said  3) lexgrog is unhappy with the manpages, and you want \- and \)hy rather than '-',
<amarillion> But I don't see that problem. lexgrog works fine on that page
<\sh> mok0: let's go to -server
<minghua> RainCT: Sounds very reasonable.  And indeed openafs FTBFS on lpia.
<amarillion> persia, Could you explain a bit more please?
<nenolod> Nafallo, lpia is just i386 with special optimizations afaik
<amarillion> Also, when you say "close a bug with the initial release"
<amarillion> Is that documented somewhere, how to do that exactly?
<amarillion> I don't see that mentioned in the wiki
<Nafallo> nenolod: I think so to.
<Nafallo> too even
<nenolod> although it does indeed fail to build on lpia
<nenolod> but it's configure-stamp that fails
<RainCT> minghua: Ok. But this should be done then when there's a new revision and not now, or?
<minghua> RainCT: I'm just saying the bug is valid, not that I know anything if the proposed solution is correct. :-)
<nenolod> RainCT, #180788 is not valid, but there is indeed a buildfailure on lpia.
<nenolod> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11133194/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-lpia.openafs_1.4.6.dfsg1-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<nenolod> the imporant part --> make: *** [configure-stamp] Error 1
<nenolod> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<nenolod> curiously, is lpia 32UL or 64UL
<guest22> Any MOTUs out there willing to review package photoml (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=photoml)? It's already been advocated once, and the remaining (hopefully) few issues pointed out by persia have been addressed in the most recent upload.
 * LucidFox pings jdong
<amarillion> What's exactly the format for closing a LP bug from a changelog? I can't find the documentation
<LucidFox> amarillion> (LP: #xxxxxx)
<amarillion> thanks
 * minghua is surprised to see http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/photoml-0801051900/photoml-0.24/
<amarillion> Ok,
<amarillion> can someone help me with this review comment
<amarillion> "lexgrog is unhappy with the manpages, and you want \- and \)hy rather than '-"
<amarillion> I don't understand, the man page works fine for me...
<mok0> amarillion: you want to distinguish between hyphen and minus
<amarillion> Yeah ok, but I'm doing that... Just a sec, let me paste the text
<mok0> amarillion: basically, anything that is not a hyphen (like in "non-conforming") should be \-
<amarillion> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50965/
 * mok0 looks
<guest22> minghua: What's the surprise - the short README in HTML rather than the directory index you expected?l
<amarillion> Oh, might it be line 51?
<amarillion> "built-in"
<mok0> amarillion: looks fine to me. But remove all the boiler-plate cruft
<dds> is anyone here a mentor looking for new contributors?
<amarillion> mok0 ok
<dds> I have a few packages, some of them are ports of Debian packages, some of them are updates of existing universe packages for hardy, some of them are gutsy backports (and some are new versions of Debian packages). I was wondering if anyone could check them out for acceptability.
<dds> they're all in http://ubuntu.bosabosa.org/
<minghua> guest22: Yes, I expected a directory index.  I suppose it's because upstream ships an index.html in their tarball.
<LucidFox> dds> All new packages in Ubuntu go into Hardy.
<dds> LucidFox: I know, the gutsy-backports are for my personal use and my users
<dds> but they're all in the same pool
<dds> that's all I was trying to say.
<dds> if you use "deb-src http://ubuntu.bosabosa.org/ hardy main" (even though they should be universe, they're in my main just for simplicity) you'll get them
<dds> and the debs are properly built against libs for hardy, gutsy, or sid, as appropriate
<LucidFox> If you want to get a package into Ubuntu, the action depends on its status in Ubuntu and Debian
<LucidFox> 1. If this version is in Debian, file a sync request
<dds> :) right, I'm taking this up with the appropriate debian maintainers simultaenously
<dds> but
<dds> anyway, could you look at the packages?
<dds> the purpose is for my organization to be able to use the TPM chips in our laptops and desktops for VPN and GPG key storage, so it requires new versions of trousers, libtspi, and opencryptoki.
<dds> if you have a machine with a TPM chip, you may also find it useful; true security for your GPG subkey.
<LucidFox> If it's specific to your organization, just create an intranet repository and configure your Ubuntu systems to look there
<dds> we have that already. we like contributing back.
<dds> I'm a sysadmin for google, we're already using these internally. I repackaged them without any of our internal dependencies and made them available in my own repo.
<LucidFox> So, looking at the package versions:
<LucidFox> trousers: File a sync request
<LucidFox> libtspi: This is in neither Ubuntu nor Debian, so upload it to REVU
<dds> the trousers package can't just be synced because the old ubuntu package uses a different username and group then the debian package
<dds> so my modified package moves the group over
<LucidFox> Then file a merge request.
<dds> err moves the user and group over
<LucidFox> Add a debdiff.
<dds> libtspi is in both
<dds> it's built via the trousers source package
<LucidFox> Ah, I see.
<dds> and about a merge request, my package is the merge.
<dds> about opencryptoki, I'm trying to get upstream to make a new stable release, but in the CVS version that I packaged there are only bugfixes, no new functionality, but enough to get the TPM working properly.
<LucidFox> Yes, but when merging from Debian, Ubuntu developers operate diffs rather than whole packages.
<LucidFox> (I'll get to opencryptoki)
<dds> ok
<dds> forgive me, I'm an oldschool debian hacker, I know how to build packages but I'm not up on the ubuntu organization
<LucidFox> looking at the packages
<LucidFox> Well, first, trousers should be against the latest Debian version
<LucidFox> which is 0.3.1-3
<LucidFox> And there's no ~ in ubuntu
<LucidFox> so when you create your modified version, name it 0.3.1-3ubuntu1
<dds> ok
<LucidFox> After you build the source package, run debdiff against the Debian package and yours and file a merge request in Launchpad with the output attached
<dds> ok
<guest22> minghua: Yes, exactly.
<dds> can you tell me where in launchpad the merge request goes? just as a bug against the ubuntu package?
<LucidFox> yes
<dds> ok
<dds> also, I'd be happy to be the maintainer for the packages in Ubuntu (I'm asking for maintainership of the packages in Debian, too), any suggestions?
<LucidFox> name it something like: "Please merge trousers 0.3.1-3 from Debian unstable (main)"
<dds> ok
<LucidFox> Ubuntu doesn't have the concept of a single maintainer, to my knowledge
<dds> right
<LucidFox> so anyone can upload a package over an existing one
<dds> anyone in MOTU you mean?
<LucidFox> Any MOTU, yes, or any user through sponsorship
<dds> nod ok
<dds> then I'll just get someone internally to review the packages and sponsor me
<dds> tomorrow
<LucidFox> Uhm...
<dds> someone in my company who's an MOTU
<LucidFox> Sponsorship is requested via Launchpad :)
<dds> who can sponsor me
<LucidFox> by subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsor
<dds> nod
<LucidFox> * ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<LucidFox> Updates are managed the same as merges, only you attach a debdiff against the current Ubuntu version rather than the Debian version.
<dds> nod, ok
<DarkSun88> Salve
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<DarkSun88> persia: Ping
<geser> persia, bluekuja: regenerated http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<jwill> Are sun-java5-jdk and sun-java6-jdk virtual classes in hardy? If so, what are the concrete classes?
<crimsun> "classes"?
<crimsun> they're most definitely not virtual /packages/ - see apt-cache policy
<jwill> my bad, I did mean packages...hmm because pbuilder is failing saying they are virtual that that pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy  has unmet depends
<LucidFox> jwill> They won't work in pbuilder
<crimsun> your pbuilder configuration likely doesn't have multiverse as a known component.
<LucidFox> It's not just multiverse.
<LucidFox> Proprietary Java doesn't work in pbuilder, _period_. It has nothing to do with multiverse.
<crimsun> there's debconf buffoonery, true.
<LucidFox> Indeed.
<LucidFox> jwill> Can you build your package with a free Java SDK? Like icedtea-java7-jdk?
<pochu> Can't you set debconf to noninteractive to get it working?
<jwill> I think so(using icedtea), pretty sure the package doesn't use java's propr ui api? what if it did need something in multiverse java? How would I test in that case?
<LucidFox> I think if it build-depends on proprietary Java, it's out. Because the build will fail on LP as well.
<crimsun> pochu: no, it will simply bail, because it defaults to not accepting the EULA.
<tjaalton> superm1: ping, openchrome packaging
<the_belgain> Hello.  Is this the right place to ask a pbuilder question (i'm trying to package a new program for ubuntu)?
<ScottK2> Yes.
<the_belgain> I'm trying to package a program (fuppes) following the debhelper guide in the wiki.  I've first made sure that i can compile the program normally (./configure, make, make install) and that works fine
<the_belgain> when trying to build the src package using pbuilder, i get the build failing due to unresolved references to dlclose, dlopen, dlsym
<the_belgain> i'm guessing something pretty basic is missing from my build-depends, but i'm not sure what (i'd have thought the package containing those would be part of build-essential?)..
<the_belgain> any suggestions?
<crimsun> it's highly improbable that it's a build-depends issue.  Did you check if the correct options are being passed to the linker during compilation?
<the_belgain> i'm just looking through the build output now... one thing i'm noticing is several instances of "FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/modules.dep: No such file or directory" - is this benign?
<crimsun> what are you building that needs linux-image-2.6.22-14-generic as a build-dependency?!
<the_belgain> it doesn't, but i'm getting those lines output by pbuilder when it's installing packages
<LucidFox> That's normal, ignore it.
<LucidFox> I get it too.
<the_belgain> ok, thanks
<the_belgain> so presumably i need to look through the autogenerated debian/rules file to see what could be wrong there?
<the_belgain> eg. ./configure options, build flags, etc.?
 * RainCT thinks that the CoC should have a "if someone is a idiot you can tell him so" exception :P
<crimsun> the_belgain: do you have the build log pastebinned?
<the_belgain> i can do - where does pastebin live?
<crimsun> any pastebin will suffice.  some people use pastebin.ca, others paste.ubuntu-nl.org, ...
<ScottK2> !pastebin | the_belgain
<ubotu> the_belgain: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ScottK2> That one's fine if you dont have one handy.
<the_belgain> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50978/  -  that's the complete output from pbuilder build
<geser> LucidFox: build-depending on the sun-java packages works on the buildds as they have the license question preseeded
<tormod> ogra: hi, any chance you can look at your ubuntu-main-sponsors bugs before the alpha 3 freeze?
<ScottK2> crimsun: I was hoping you were looking at the_belgain's pastebin.  I'm up to my eyeballs in MIRs right now.
<the_belgain> has anyone had a chance to take a quick look?
<the_belgain> i can paste my debian/rules as well if that helps
<bddebian> Heya gang
<rzr> hi, my is about to upload a new package to REVU , anyone want to doublecheck it before ?
<afflux> some headers in libotr2-dev include gcrypt.h which is in libgcrypt11-dev. Shouldn't libotr2-dev depend on libgcrypt11-dev?
<geser> afflux: yes
<geser> Hi bddebian
 * afflux goes filing a bug then
<LucidFox> I wonder if there are already Ubuntu packages of KDE 4 final.
<crimsun> ScottK2: in a bit, yes.
<crimsun> the_belgain: I'll be at it in about 1,5 hours.
<the_belgain> great, thanks
<bddebian> Heya geser
<dfiloni> if I use debuild binary to build a package, how I can get *_i386.changes file?
<the_belgain> crimsun: sorry, i just logged off for a moment - back now
<Hattory> Hi all.... I would understand the use of prevu... I already read this how-to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268687) but I don't understand some things
<Hattory> I would build a backport for gutsy
<Hattory> the package is sunbird 0.7
<Hattory> when I type prevu packagename wich repositories I must put in the sources.list?
<jpatrick> Vorian: thanks for the tork patch
<Hattory> repo of the development distro, right?
<Vorian> jpatrick: no problemo
<martoss> hi all, i packaged eric4, I'll inform the debian maintainer of eric3 and hope he will answer in near future.
<martoss> so what's the best way to get it in universe?
<ScottK> Best way is to get the Debian maintainer to upload it to Debian and then ask for a sync
<ScottK> 2nd best way is to prepare an Ubuntu specific package, upload it to REVU and then see if you can get it sponsored for upload directly into Ubuntu
<ScottK> !revu | martoss
<ubotu> martoss: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<martoss> ok, also because it depends on qscintilla2 which is not in ubuntu yet, so i hope he will answer in the next days. if not, I consider revu :-)
<warp10> TheMuso: may I request the merge of big-cursor (whose you are the last uploader)?
<ScottK> martoss: Is it in Debian?
<martoss> i think i have the source package from there, mom plz...
<martoss> yepp, it's in debian http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=qscintilla2&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<martoss> and will be present in hardy ;-)
<martoss> ok, so this should not be a problem
<ScottK> martoss: In fact: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qscintilla2
<martoss> ok, so i think it's a good idea to do this REVU stuff. In the last time, i packaged several apps and put them in my private repo.
<rzr> just done http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=jaaa
<ion_> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jaaa-0801062000/jaaa-0.4.2/debian/control You probably should scrap the . from the end
<martoss> ok i am at that point "In order to upload to REVU, you will need to be added to the REVU keyring. "
<ScottK> Did you add your GPG key to your Launchpad profile and join the contributors of packages to universe team?
<martoss> yepp
<martoss> key is verified
 * ScottK looks around for a REVU admin.
<ScottK> imbrandon: You here?
<martoss> and i am in the group.
<rzr> ion_: ok
<Kmos> dh_desktop is valid for kubuntu desktop ? but not dh_icons..
<\sh> guys what about clamav in gutsy? is 0.92 being backported even with a soname change?
<ScottK> \sh: I plan on it, but want to give it some more time in Hardy first
<ScottK> \sh: All the security fixes have already been fixed in Feisty/Gutsy
<\sh> ScottK: well, freshclam is crying ,-)
<ScottK> Of course it is.
<ScottK> You should be able to ignore it for now.
<\sh> yeah...
<\sh> fingers cross
<\sh> ScottK: how do you see that amavisd-new is catching the clamd?
<ScottK> \sh: I don't understand the question?
<\sh> ScottK: reading my logfiles when I start amavisd It tells me ANTI-VIRUS code not loaded"
<\sh> I thought it needs this when you want to use a virus scanner
<ScottK> Ah.  I actually use clamsmtp.  It's been a while since I set it up with amavisd-new.  IIRC it was clear enough what to do from their docs.
<\sh> ScottK: well according to the debian conf for amavis, just install clamav-daemon and add clamav user to amavis group..restart clamd and amavis...bingo
<\sh> scottk: works
<amarillion> Should I announce an upload to REVU somewhere, so reviewers can take a look? Or should I just wait...?
<crimsun> once per day is a recommended guideline.  spamming hourly is frowned upon.
<amarillion> Ok :)
<amarillion> I'm talking about this one btw: I'm talking about this btw: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=speed-game
<ion_> I was told that on MOTU days, itâs okay to do a request every six hours or so. :-)
<amarillion> Already fixed a few issues that persia found earlier
<amarillion> Hmmm... it's been 7 hours since my last request, so I'm a bit too quick
<pochu> ion_: you mean REVU days? :)
<ion_> pochu: Yeah. Brainfart. :-)
<amarillion> When are REVU days then
<Kmos> amarillion: every monday I think.. =)
<pochu> Every Monday in all timezones AFAIK
<Kmos> :)
<ion_> If youâve fixed issues pointed out in earlier reviews, iâd assume it to be more than okay to announce it. Iâm not a MOTU, though, donât trust my word on this. :-)
<pochu> Kmos: you were faster ;)
<Kmos> pochu: I try :P
<jpatrick> amarillion: no need to do: "Section: universe/games"
<amarillion> Yeah, lintian complains about that. But why?
<Kmos> amarillion: try to set only games
<pochu> Probably because it's not known to it
<nenolod> amarillion, why are you repacking the tarball in speed-game?
<amarillion> I think I learned to do that because of ppa.
<Kmos> amarillion: bump Standards-Version to 3.7.3 in debian/control
<jpatrick> amarillion: This is a NEW package, only one changelog entry is needed
<jpatrick> Kmos: he already has that
<nenolod> amarillion, _DONT_ do that
<Kmos> jpatrick: :)
<Kmos> ups
<Kmos> checking the old one
<bddebian> Heya gang
<amarillion> "Section: universe/games" -> "I think I learned to do that because of ppa."
<amarillion> (just to be clear)
<jpatrick> amarillion: one should not edit the source, use a patch system instead
<nenolod> amarillion, the license on your package "This code is free: do with it as you will." is questionable at best
<amarillion> nenolod: am I repacking the tarball? I wasn't aware of that
<amarillion> nenolod, how should I phrase it then?
<amarillion> I'll look into using a patch system
<nenolod> amarillion, tell the upstream author to license it under BSD or GPL2 or something legally proven
<amarillion> Ok
<amarillion> nenolod, what do you mean exactly by "repacking the tarball?"
<pochu> nenolod: Public domain is OK, isn't it?
<nenolod> amarillion, it appears as if your tarball is repacked.
<nenolod> amarillion, as in, you didn't have an .orig.tar.gz in the parent dir so dh_make made one
<nenolod> :P
<nenolod> pochu, public domain is not acceptable in non-common law countries
<nenolod> pochu, in france, public domain-like grants do not take affect until after you die
<amarillion> ah ok. Probably a typo in the filename then. I'll look into that as well
<pochu> I think we have public-domain licensed software in the archive, don't we?
<nenolod> pochu, yes, but that's not really an excuse to add more if you can help it
<amarillion> Well, I'll ask upstream to clarify
<ion_> i think there was a CC license that was essentially public domain, but it worked around such legalization, or something like that.
<nenolod> pochu, also, that's not necessarily a public domain grant
<nenolod> ion_, yes, the most leniant CC license would be a good choice
<nenolod> pochu, public domain grants are usually the following sentence: "This work is in the public domain."
<ScottK> BSD License is a legal way to say do whatever you want.
<nenolod> ScottK, incorrect
<ScottK> OK.  It's not quite anything, but it's very close.
<nenolod> ScottK, BSD license is a legal way to say "do whatever you want as long as you keep this copyright in the source code"
 * persia advocates the use of the ISC license in preference to the BSD license for new works
<nenolod> persia, me too
<amarillion> would it be ok to use something like the allegro giftware license: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51018/ ?
<amarillion> (Since this is an allegro game)
<nenolod> amarillion, if it's already used in debian/ubuntu, then i don't see the issue
<persia> amarillion: Likely safer to use ISC, which has similar terms, but that works too.
<nenolod> using ISC is indeed a wiser decision
<nenolod> but you'll want to ask upstream for permission
 * persia notes that upstream should really be the source of the licensing, regardless of which is chosen
 * ScottK agrees with persia.
 * pochu agrees with ScottK 
 * ion_ agrees with pochu
 * persia celebrates consensus, but notes that it doesn't require an experiment in recursion
<pochu> persia: you broke it! ;)
 * bddebian disagrees just to be different
 * Fujitsu agrees with bddebian.
<ScottK> Definitely check with upstream then.
<ScottK> ;-)
<pochu> Fujitsu: are you different then too? :)
<ion_> Could i get a second advocation for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected (a program that checks whether given hardware is connected to the system, nice for scripting)? Thanks :-)
<amarillion> Ok, I sent an email upstream.
<amarillion> thanks for the comments on the package, I've got some things to work on now
<imbrandon> ScottK: pong
<ScottK> imbrandon: REVU keyring needed syncing
<Kmos> what's best.. schroot or dchroot ?
<Kmos> more close to buildd machine..
<crimsun> the mk-sbuild-lv script in ubuntu-dev-tools is recommended.
<crimsun> ^^ Kmos.
<cyberix> What do you do instead of dget in Dapper?
<crimsun> more precisely?  (You certainly can use dget with absolute pool URLs.)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-29
<RainCT> wth is ftp://ftp.gnome.org/conspiracy/index.html? XDDD
<jpds> Anyone know who uploaded: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emelfm2 ?
<Laney> jpds: As in who sponsored it?
<jpds> Laney: Yeah.
<Hobbsee> oh dera.
 * Hobbsee looks it up
<jpds> Hobbsee: It was definiatly sponsored, cos the guy doesn't have upload rights.
<Laney> jpds: dholbach
<Hobbsee> the key was 059DD5EB
<Hobbsee> actually, it doesn't look to be that bad.
<Hobbsee> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2007-November/002095.html
<Hobbsee> who knows why dholbach decided to allow him to use 3 changelog entries for the one entry, i've no idea
<jpds> Ahh, right. bobbo ^
<bobbo> ah, I bet it was from changes in REVU
<Hobbsee> bobbo: ppa, most likely
<bobbo> Hobbsee: yeah, something like, that
<bobbo> rofl, I almost cried when I saw it :)
<Hobbsee> based on the second changelog entry, anyway
<Laney> It looks to be alright apart from the changelog though
<Laney> from a scan of the diff
<marnold> looks like all changelog entries were included in the .changes
<marnold> but lp doesn't recognize it
<marnold> which is odd
<badzero> hallo ubuntu package-devs pleas merge this packet to newer version 4.0.0.4 http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/vuze
<marnold> oh and Laney ant changes are related to the multiuser patch so I'm not going to touch that and dh_links is ui selector
<marnold> sorry
<Laney> marnold: It's often good to list which files are touched by each change
<Laney> debian/rules, debian/control: Do foo because bar
<marnold> and badzero Ubuntu has patches against 3.1 so i don't think anybody is going to touch that until the person who made said patches merges them with 4.x
<badzero> aha ok thx
<marnold> thats not to say a new vuze4 package is out of the question
<marnold> but motu-p2p should do that
<marnold> he left :/
<marnold> hate it when people leave when i'm talking
<directhex> it's how the kids use irc these days
<directhex> you;re lucky he stuck around long enough for you to actually be able to get an answer in
<marnold> directhex, i know i run an IRC network thats only populated for 1hr/day, because of that
<marnold> :(
<directhex> evidently you're just not hip enough for the web 2.0 generation
<directhex> they use their tweeters and friendfaces and yourspaces, not this irc nonsense!
<marnold> I am supposedly a part of it so :( again
<marnold> even my CS class is like that
<marnold> i was explaining why somebody's for loop didn't work
<marnold> and when i asked if he understood
<marnold> he says "No, because you were talking to much"
<directhex> they don't need to understand things, that's wikipedia's job!
<directhex> well i never, a genuine NCommander!
<marnold> and then he says "So whats the code to correct this?"
 * NCommander fails to validate
<NCommander> I'm not genuine at all :-P
<Hobbsee> marnold: i thought that was where you gave them the wikipedia link, and said "read this first, then come back with questions"
<directhex> Hobbsee, give a man a fire, he's warm for a day. set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life!
 * Hobbsee actually found wikipedia quite helpful this yera for one of her subjects - although perhaps that was because the lecturers, and hte lecture notes, weren't great.
<Hobbsee> directhex: indeed!
<marnold> no the Professor came in
 * Hobbsee sets directhex on fire
<directhex> or, erm, woman. i'm an equal-opportunity immolator.
<Hobbsee> directhex: did I see you say you'd sent a mail to ubuntu-devel@?
<marnold> gave him an earfull
<directhex> Hobbsee, not recently. why?
<Hobbsee> oh, good ;)
<marnold> and then almost kicked him from the lab for swearing
<marnold> he changed his major after that
<marnold> :P
<serialorder> Question that has been confusing me lately. How should one choose among: iceape-dev, seamonkey-dev, libxul-dev, xulrunner-1.9-dev ?
<directhex> serialorder, 'ubuntu-mozillateam
<serialorder> directhex, thanks
<directhex> serialorder, generally speaking, is your package browser specific, or does it apply to all moz-based browsers?do you want to use your package on debian?
<serialorder> it was a merge i was working on last week. It FTBFS because it depended on iceape-dev but when I changed it to depend on libxul-dev it built fine. Then as I investigated the various packages there seemed to be those four and each one recommended using another one rather than itself.
<serialorder> but i will now go pester ubuntu-mozillateam
<directhex> IIRC it should be xulrunner-dev (>= 1.9) | xulrunner-1.9-dev
<directhex> for debian AND ubuntu joy
<directhex> but don't quote me on that
<vorian> ScottK: I've been in contact with the kdenlive folks.  It seems our FFmpeg is missing a few things, and there is also some libs missing from our MLT.
<crimsun> does motu have an lp liaison again?
<crimsun> if not, i'd like to propose someone =)
<crimsun> oh wait, this was answered at uds. nevermind.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: I believe it does, but i'm not sure if it's by name only
<Hobbsee> or if he's still interested in doing it
<hyperair> does anyone have time to revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<nhandler> hyperair: I'll review it again tomorrow
<hyperair> nhandler: okay thanks
<ScottK> vorian: OK.  For ffmpeg, siretart is the one to talk to.
<AnAnt> Hello, how do I know the list of motus ? or UUS ?
<iulian> AnAnt: launchpad.net/~motu/+members and ~/universe-contributors/+members.
<AnAnt> thanks
<huats> Silly question, but I have installed a jaunty alpha  to test my packages in a vm, and I notice that there is an empty xorg.conf... is it normal ?
<persia> huats, Yes, and intentional.  Everything you need should be autodetected.
<huats> persia: yeah I assumed :)
<huats> persia: hello btw
<huats>  :)
<huats> I was just wondering since the resolution is very low
<huats> and I'd like to have a bigger one...
<_ruben> huats: you might need an extra/3rd-party driver, depending the virtualization product you use
<huats> _ruben: hum
<huats> _ruben: may be indeed
<didrocks> huats: for virtualbox, you need to add some extra values (it set it up when needed)
<didrocks> hi btw too ;)
<huats> but it was working fine as it (I use kvm)
<huats> _ruben: but I'll have a look in that direction :)
<_ruben> no experience with kvm myself, but i dont expect it to require additional drivers, could be wrong though .. might be a (k)vm setting as well
<persia> huats, For some virtualisation solutions, you can just use xrandr to change the resolution.
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone please bug 311763 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311763 in ubuntume-themes "Add new cursor themes from Houcem" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311763
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone review bug 311763 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311763 in ubuntume-themes "Add new cursor themes from Houcem" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311763
<AdamDH> if I am unpacking my source inside the rules file, do I have to move the source any where after that? it would just be in a packagename.version directory
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: that's bad practise...
<AdamDH> i am unpacking upstream source then applying a patch
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: I think the fontforge package does that as well, you might want to look at that... if you _must_...
<AdamDH> this is my second package so any advice would be welcomed
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: yeah, then you don't need to unpack the sources in the rules file
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: why do you need to unpack in the rules file?
<AdamDH> dont you need to unpack so you can apply a patch? I am just shipping the upstream .ta.gz for binutils
<pmjdebruijn> huh
<pmjdebruijn> no?
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: have you read up on dpatch?
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: why are you packaging binutils? it is already packaged...
<AdamDH> because I am packaging a cross compiler, so I apply a patch to the binutils source to add msp430 support like the AVR project does
<pmjdebruijn> uh
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: why not take the current package, and modify that. instead of starting from scratch?
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/binutils-avr
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: there are several binutils-XXXX already package... take of one those... and modify to your liking
<AdamDH> i have been playing about with packing on and off for two days and every example package I look at does something diffrent in rules, even if its the same package
<AdamDH> the binutils-avr package does:
<AdamDH> binutils-2.18.tar.bz2:
<AdamDH>         ln -s /usr/src/binutils/binutils-*.tar.bz2 binutils-2.18.tar.bz2
<AdamDH> so there is a symbolic link to the upstream source, is this the correct way to do this/
<AdamDH> ?
<mgdm> AdamDH: is that for 8-bit AVRs or AVR32?
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: you're not particularly starting with the easier thing to package
<pmjdebruijn> AdamDH: I have no clue on how to "best" handle this
<AdamDH> the cross compiler I am working on is for the MSP430 microcontrollers
 * pmjdebruijn is not familiar with building crosscompilers
 * mgdm has been swearing at them recently
<mgdm> but I didn't try to package it
<AdamDH> well I know how it all works from a source install
<AdamDH> mgdm: you have worked with the MSP430s?
<mgdm> AdamDH: I haven't, I've been fiddling with an AVR32 device lately
<mgdm> an NGW100
<AdamDH> pmjdebruijn: the cross compiler is easy to get working from source, just wanted to stop doing a source install on my systems and package it, basically you have a set of configure arguments, thats easy to run in  a package, and a patch I have, you apply the patch to the upstream source, confiure make make install thats all there is to it, oh and some cleaning about
<AdamDH> so my package was going to have the upstream binytils-2.18.tar.gz I was going to unpack that inside rules and apply the patch, simular to the udev package, is this not the best way to do it?
<AdamDH> mgdm, running embedded linux on that?
<mgdm> AdamDH: yep
<loic-m> Is there anything else to do for a backport request, after filing the bug and ensuring the packages build fine and run ok (in the case of a package that didn't exist in previous versions)?
<Laney> I think you should set the bug to confirmed, but IANAbackport
<Laney> er
<Laney> grr, I can't repro this rcbug
<AnAnt_> Hello, can someone review bug 311763 ?
<loic-m> For backport, the Ubuntu wiki says that for anyone wanting to help, the 3rd step is "Helping to build test packages, or feed package requests to the PPA "
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311763 in ubuntume-themes "Add new cursor themes from Houcem" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311763
<AnAnt_> I have already uploaded the new source package to the bug report
<loic-m> How does one feeds "package requests to the PPA"? Is it personnal PPA or a special PPA?
<loic-m> in other words, is "Backports Tester Team PPA" already done?
<AdamDH> mgdm, done some embeded work, looking at getting a beagleboard next
<AdamDH> did you homebrew your dev board?
<mgdm> AdamDH: Nah, it's an Atmel NGW100 reference design
<mgdm> I fancy a Beagleboard too, but i wanted something with Ethernet first
<AdamDH> same thats what is putting me off
<AdamDH> been looking at the gumstixs
<mgdm> I've seen a real Beagleboard decoding Big Buck Bunny at big resolution, it was cool :)
<AdamDH> the beagle boards have alot of potential, if they added ethernet on board it would be ideal
<mgdm> I was slightly confused that they don't have it on board - otherwise it'd be (theoretically) great for a cheap MythTV front-end or some such, I'd imagine
<mgdm> Disclaimer: I might be talking rubbish
<AdamDH> myth would run fine on it I think
<DRebellion> DktrKranz, hey! Didn't get a chance to thank you on the ACK for cifer, so thanks :D
<DktrKranz> DRebellion, you're welcome ;)
 * sebner feels ignored :P
<AdamDH> my next myth front end would probally be a cheap mac mini self upgraded
<DktrKranz> sebner, you feel ignored, me feels unpaid ;)
<AdamDH> what does dh_testdir actully do?
<sebner> DktrKranz: ahahahaha
<AnAnt_> DktrKranz: are you a UUS ?
<DktrKranz> AnAnt_, yep
<AnAnt_> DktrKranz: can you upload the package in this bug 311763
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311763 in ubuntume-themes "Add new cursor themes from Houcem" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311763
<DRebellion> sebner, Dec 19 21:55:23 <DRebellion>	sebner, thanks for the advocation :D
<DRebellion> :P
 * DktrKranz looks
<sebner> DRebellion: xD
<DktrKranz> sebner, you always want greets twice... bad boy
<sebner> DktrKranz: better than money :P
<DktrKranz> I can't go supermarket with "greets"
<sebner> DktrKranz: you can greet the supermarket employees :P
<AdamDH> does any one know to any packages where patches are applied without dpatch?
<DktrKranz> AdamDH, do you look for a specific patch system, or just a "custom" one?
<nhandler> AdamDH: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems lists a few
<AdamDH> just playing around at the moment seeing whats the best way to package this
<AdamDH> thanks for the link
<nhandler> You're welcome
<DktrKranz> quilt *cough*
<sebner> AdamDH: of course quilt :P
<AdamDH> i am looking at the rules inside binutils-avr as this is exactley the same way the binutils-msp package should work the one I am creating, can any one just explain a few lines to me? binutils-2.18.tar.bz2 $(patched) what is $(patched)?
<AdamDH> its in the configure section:
<DktrKranz> AdamDH, I played with it a bit
<AdamDH> ah its part of debhelper I think
<DktrKranz> binutils-avr uses vanilla binutils source package, taken from binutils-src
<DktrKranz> it unpacks it in a directory and applies patches using a custom routine
<DktrKranz> probably because it was too complex to let quilt/dpatch/whatever to work properly that way
<AdamDH> i played with the patch systems nothing seemed to work so I decided to apply them by hand
<AdamDH> seems to work better
<DktrKranz> AdamDH, are you interested in binutils-msp?
<DktrKranz> I thougth it was OK, probably I was wrong
<AdamDH> is there a binutils-msp?
<AdamDH> i am packaging the whole mspgcc tool chain at present
<DktrKranz> mh... it was probably a different name, then
<AdamDH> i understand whats going on and whats required its just the paths, does the source have to be in the root or can it be in a directory so inside rulles I do cd ../package && ./configure etc?
<DktrKranz> IIRC, there's a given directory for that
<AdamDH> given directory?
 * DktrKranz looks at http://package-import.ubuntu.com/b/binutils-avr/jaunty/files
<DktrKranz> 505 error...
<AdamDH> seems to be harder to create a debian package 2 days compared to 3 hours for gentoo
<AdamDH> so much conflicting information
<bbs> http://dpaste.com/103409/
<bbs> can someone please help me with this?
<bbs> my deb is perfect except for this
<iulian> DktrKranz: That's odd. When I browse package-import.u.c, I get a "502 Proxy Error" message.
<DktrKranz> iulian, typo ;)
<Laney> bbs: When you do gpg --list-secret-keys, do you see exactly the same name and email as that?
 * bbs checks
<iulian> DktrKranz: Did you get that error when you were browsing it?
<DktrKranz> iulian, sometimes. I usually get it only for "jaunty"
<bbs> Laney: uid                  james toy (www.dexrex.com) <jt@dexrex.com>
<Laney> bbs: That's not the same
<bbs> oO
<bbs> why since there is a comment?
<Laney> yep
<AdamDH> I might leave off Debain support for a while I just cannot get my head around it all or find anything that works
<iulian> DktrKranz: Ah-ha, OK. Then it's not just me.
<bbs> Laney: thanks a lot
<AdamDH> does any one know to a clean example where a patch is applied without a patch system confiure arguments are run and then make make install without any crap in the rules files? just a clean example that just does it from scratch without debhelp cdbs etc?
<AdamDH> Why is debian packaging so complicated?
<directhex> AdamDH, because debian packages cover a variety of scenarios
<directhex> AdamDH, for simple packages, the hard part (debian/rules) needs to be 3 lines max
<sebner> directhex: 2 if you delete the comment :P
<AdamDH> directhex can you pastebin me a generic rules file please?
<AdamDH> just something so I can see how far back it can be stripped back
<directhex> %:
<directhex>         dh $@
<directhex> well, with "#!/usr/bin/make -f" on the first line, of course
<directhex> and since it's a makefi;e, that's a tab, not 8 spaces
<AdamDH> yup but there is nothing past to configure no make no make install no make clean so nothing is going to get built?
<AdamDH> *passed
<james_w> Laney: thanks a lot for forwarding all of the mono patches
<directhex> AdamDH, you asked for minimal!
<AdamDH> i meant minimal that would actually be used to build something minimal
<AdamDH> *ment
<directhex> AdamDH, that runs configure with appropriate prefix, make, make install, make clean, etc.
<directhex> AdamDH, that's enough debian/rules to make a package
<AdamDH> this is what confuses me coming from another system where it uses basically just shell scripts and you can see cleanly how it works, I have written make files for c / cxx projects
<Laney> james_w: you're quite welcome
<AdamDH> with debain I don't see the flow and everyone does something diffrent there is no standard as such, everything seems to just build
<directhex> AdamDH, so you don't want minimal, you want full.
<jmarsden|work> AdamDH: man dh may help, look at the examples?
<AdamDH> i just want to work without a system just a rules file, something blank to start with, I packaged some really basic stuff yesterday to play around but was not 100% sure how things worked
<directhex> AdamDH, a rules file is a makefile. nothing more, nothing less.
<james_w> directhex: do you want a sponsor for a merge of gnome-subtitles?
<directhex> try http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mono/mono-basic/trunk/debian/rules?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 as a less automated example.
<directhex> james_w, need sublib first, and ftpmaster just rejected it
<james_w> ah
<AdamDH> thanks directhex that looks clean, I can follow that I will have another play
<Laney> how did it build in debian?
<directhex> Laney, debian is the land of binary uploads :)
 * Laney pukes
<Laney> there's no policy that it has to be buildable from the archive?
<directhex> Laney, technically. but with binary uploads, it often isn't the case :)
<james_w> Laney: yeah, it's an RC bug if it doesn't (and it's in main/contrib)
 * directhex is fighting ikvm. currently, ikvm is winning
<Laney> I guess experimental is more relaxed about these things
<james_w> indeed
<james_w> directhex: what makes it tricky?
<directhex> james_w, generally speaking? it requires its own modified source snapshots of openjdk and gnu classpath, and uses nant to build. those are a good start on the pile of suck
<directhex> james_w, so for one thing it takes 1.5 gig of ram to compile
<directhex> thanks to javac bloat
<james_w> urgh
<james_w> my sympathies
<directhex> in this specific case, i'm working on test builds of the new upstream release, to update the neolithic package we have
<directhex> a test build i now have working! except if i enable assembly signing, it ftbfs with some bollocks reason
<Laney> talked to upstream?
<directhex> not yet. hanska did, and the aswer generally was "don't build from source", which is hardly acceptable
<Laney> hahaha
<directhex> but i've made more progress than he did
 * directhex gets out the decompiler, starts decompiling & diffing
<Laney> inline changes--
<james_w> Laney: genpo uploaded with a few minor tweaks. Thanks for your contribution to Ubuntu :-)
<Laney> james_w: Heh, I did wonder about that bzr repo
<Laney> but that guy seemed to keep up with it and I thought he might complain if I took it out
<Laney> :P
<jpds> What's the python code is output a list (["x", "y", "z"]) as: "x, y, z"?
<Laney> >>> ",".join(["a","b","c"])
<Laney> 'a,b,c'
<Laney> jpds: That close enough?
<Laney> I guess ", ".join(... would work
<jpds> Laney: Yay, that's works.
<hyperair> anyone got time for revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<AdamDH> does someone mind taking a look at this and telling me where I have gone wrong? http://pastebin.com/m3c210057
<james_w> AdamDH: what's the problem you are having?
<AdamDH> make: *** [build] Error 2
<AdamDH> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<AdamDH> oh this was before it make: *** [build] Error 2
<AdamDH> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<AdamDH> sorry:
<AdamDH> make[1]: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop
<james_w> ah
<james_w> you have "$(MAKE)", but you probably want "cd src && $(MAKE)", or similar
<james_w> because you want to build what you unpacked in to "src"
<james_w> "$(MAKE) -C src" might do it as well
<AdamDH> a thanks james_w did not notice that
<AdamDH> i got some better code for the patch just hard coded it for the moment to see if it will work
<AdamDH> cd src && /usr/bin/make
<AdamDH> cd: 1: can't cd to src
<AdamDH> so its not extracting the source then?
<james_w> AdamDH: ah, because build doesn't depend on configure, configure doesn't depend on patch, and patch doesn't depend on unpack
<AdamDH> right I follow
<AdamDH> i will fix that
<AdamDH> thanks James seem to be getting some where now
<AdamDH> what path do I use for the patch? patches/patch.patch?
<AdamDH> it cant find the files to patch No file to patch.  Skipping patch.  patch -stuN -p1 < patches/msp430-binutils-2.18-msp430-cvs.0.0.20081229.patch, should the patch be in the source dir and applied?
<james_w> nope
<james_w> it's the same problem as before
<james_w> you need to cd to src first
<AdamDH> ah thanks I fought dh_testdir moved into the src, added a cd into it
<AdamDH> how do I pass arguments to gcc?
<jmarsden|work> AdamDH: Traditionally, in the Makefile you can do something like CCFLAGS="-ggdb"  and make sure the compiler invocation uses $(CFLAGS)
<AdamDH> here is a good one: checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables not had that error for a while, what would cause that?
<james_w> AdamDH: check config.log
<james_w> there will be some error in the test compilation
<AdamDH> where would the log be? had a quick look around cant see it
<james_w> find . -name "config.log"
<james_w> it's usually in the same place as the configure script, but it can end up elsewhere in some situations
<AdamDH> ah solved it, passed Wall as part of the CCFLAGS
<AdamDH> just getting make problems now to look at
<AdamDH> is there a document documenting what is required of a package to get it submitted into Ubuntu?
<Laney> AdamDH: see /topic
<AdamDH> im getting cc1: warnings being treated as errors, never had this before while compiling the code from source on other systems. I noticed -Werror is part of the defualt CCFLAGS
<AdamDH> not to sure if passing -Wno-error is a good idea, its not good practice to do that
<AdamDH> are patches in /patches automatically applied?
<james_w> ./debian/patches?
<james_w> not by default
<james_w> you can enable a patch system, some of which will do it
<AdamDH> its applying my patch twice once before configure then once after configure and before make
<Laney> AdamDH: are you using a patch system?
<AdamDH> configure and make seem to work well but I get make[1]: *** No rule to make target `install'.  Stop.
<AdamDH>  any ideas? I have a $(MAKE) install
<jmarsden|work> AdamDH: Does that need to be cd src && $(MAKE) install perhaps?
<AdamDH> crap yes!
<AdamDH> right its done configure make and make install and I have a feeling for how things should be done now, but I get mkdir: cannot create directory `/opt/msp430': Permission denied right at the end. Any ideas?
<jmarsden|work> Does the src/Makefile correctly use $(DESTDIR) in its install target?
<AdamDH> the src/Makefile is from upstream bin-utils with a patch applied, I am guessing it should do
<jmarsden|work> That'snot good enough... read it and understand it :)
<jmarsden|work> It sounds like your "make install" is installing into the real /opt/msp430/ instead of into ~you/package/debian/whatever/opt/msp430
<jmarsden|work> Which is probably because there is a $(DESTDIR) missing in the Makefile.
<AdamDH> ah because we are using a chroot to build the package
<AdamDH> so we install inside that chroot
<jmarsden|work> Not really a chroot, during the build we install under the package-x.y/debian because we have permission to do that, we don't have full root privs or we'd potentially break our development box...
<AdamDH> I was doing everything inside a VM as I don't have access to my dev server here
<jmarsden|work> OK, but you still don't want a packaging attempt to break your VM...
<jmarsden|work> Imagine packaging gcc if the install during a packaging attempt overwrote /usr/bin/gcc :)
<AdamDH> yer exp as the gcc cross compiler I am working with is for a diffrent arch!
<AdamDH> i am packing binutils gcc libc for the msp430 microcontrollers
<AdamDH> learning allot more about the inner workings of ubuntu / debian by packaging this project
<AdamDH> we usally do source installs but as I am working on more than one system now that can be time consuming exp if you need to patch in another processor
<jmarsden|work> OK... so now you know why the install needs to go somewhere other than the "real" install location :)  And yes, you'll learn a lot.  As the packaging guide says "It is also a good way to learn how Ubuntu and the applications you have installed work."
<AdamDH> its a bit stress full as I am also new to ubuntu been a gentoo user for a while, but as new people use this project mspgcc its nice to have the packages there for ubuntu as this is what most people favour using now
<AdamDH> last error I get is dpkg-gencontrol: error: current host architecture 'amd64' does not appear in package's architecture list (i386) but I set in control i386 so does this need to be set as amd64?
<AdamDH> or set as any?
<jmarsden|work> You're jumping into the deep end somewhat packaging a crosscompiler...
<jmarsden|work> Wait, you are building i386 binaries of a embedded microcontroller compiler on amd64??
<jmarsden|work> Sort of cross-cross-compiling?
<AdamDH> my dev system is amd64
<AdamDH> but its an i386 binary thats required
<jpds> bigon: Thanks for that bug report. Fix commited to Bazaar now
<jmarsden|work> AdamDH: I think you can't really do that, can you?  Maybe you should have made the VM be a 32bit VM???  You need more of a cross compiling/multiple architecture expert than I am to answer that one, I think.
<bigon> jpds: np :)
<AdamDH> ah ok should have used a 32bit vm
<AdamDH> not a problem as If the rules work and I get an amd64 binary then I am allmost there
<jpds> bigon: Could bzr branch lp:ubuntu-dev-tools and test it out for me?
<Laney> jpds: The requestsync man page says -ns at the top, but -n in the body
<jpds> Laney: -s is forced sponsorship-required
<AdamDH> got my .deb now but when I check with dpkg there are no files included inside the deb just ./ ? why is this?
<Laney> oh, two separate options/
<Laney> ?
<bigon> jpds: seems to work now
<jpds> Laney: Yeah.
<jpds> bigon: \o/ Brilliant.
<bigon> :)
 * jpds => bed. G'night all.
<bigon> gn
<AdamDH> so I created a deb that has nothing inside it at least I created a deb package!
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-30
<AdamDH> is my install line correct: cd src && $(MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/msp430-binutils/usr ?
<jmarsden|work> AdamDH: define prefix before the install target :)
<jmarsden|work> cd src && make prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/msp430-binutils/usr install
<AdamDH> so some where I have made a mess of my VM and installed it somewhere!
<AdamDH> thanks for all the help jmarsden
<AdamDH> i will try that
<jmarsden|work> Possibly, but only if you were running as root...?
<jmarsden|work> You could test it by hand:  mkdir -p /tmp/junk/usr && cd src && make prefix=/tmp/junk/usr install  # and check what ends up under /tmp/junk
<AdamDH> i am running as root probally a bad idea
<jmarsden|work> Definitely a bad idea.  The whole packaging system is designed so you do not need to do that... hence the fakeroot package, for example...
<AdamDH> YES! got a working package, thanks all for the help, need to tidy up my rules but at least I know now how it all works
<AdamDH> took some time but I got there
<AdamDH> probally going to have more questions later as I have a few more packages to make
<jmarsden|work> Have fun :)
<AdamDH> one thing, my package has been named as msp430-binutils_msp430-binutils-2.18-msp430-cvs.0.0.20081229_amd64.deb instead of msp430-binutils_msp430-binutils-2.18-msp430-cvs.0.0.20081229_amd64.deb not sure why as the directory structure is correct
<AdamDH> i mean the correct name should be msp430-binutils_binutils-2.18-msp430-cvs.0.0.20081229_amd64.de
<Laney> AdamDH: the bit between the _s comes from your debian/changelog
<AdamDH> thats in my changelog msp430-binutils-2.18-msp430-cvs.0.0.20081229
<Laney> well then
<Laney> that explains it, no?
<AdamDH> slightley confused
<Laney> make the version in the changelog the same as what you want to be between the _s in the resulting deb
<Laney> ie binutils-2.18-msp430-cvs.0.0.20081229
<jmarsden|work> AdamDH: name is PACKAGE_version-from-changelog_ARCH.deb
<AdamDH> ah right follow looks like I screwed up the versioning then when I packaged it
<AdamDH> for inclusion into the main tree do my packages need man pages?
<jmarsden|work> Yes, I'm pretty sure they will.
<AdamDH> looks like I have to write some as there are non with the project, in fact documentation is lacking, I wrote a php script to get the sources and make the patches etc and tidying things up before packaging and to mirror the project
<jmarsden|work> No man pages for gcc and binutils???  Surely there are some?
<AdamDH> its a cross compiler so non that are for the actual msp430 port
<AdamDH> are for the general gcc just not for the arch the compiler is working with
<AdamDH> i will see what the AVR project did
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/103619/   dpkg-buildpackage ...   line 164: debian/rules: Permission denied
<Pici> chmod +x debian/rules
<jmarsden> CarlFK: chmod 775 debian/rules
<CarlFK> cool.  thanks
<secraberries> kinda quiet
<StevenK> 775!? 755
<secraberries> sure
<NCommander> hey StevenK
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/103621/  Setting up libpoppler-glib3 (0.8.7-1.1) ....  libpoppler-glib-dev depends on libpoppler-dev (= 0.8.7-1.1); however:   Version of libpoppler-dev on system is 0.8.7-1.
<CarlFK> lies!
<CarlFK> oh wait..glib3... dev..
<CarlFK> never mind.  all is well
<hyperair> revu, anyone? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<DktrKranz> has anybody ever seen something similar to this?
<DktrKranz> /usr/include/bits/stdio2.h: In function 'int sprintf(char*, const char*, ...)':
<DktrKranz> /usr/include/bits/stdio2.h:35: error: '__builtin_va_arg_pack' was not declared in this scope
 * StevenK kicks ffmpeg-debian until bits fall off.
<iulian> DktrKranz: See bug #293807.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293807 in gccxml "gccxml regression: fails to parse stdio.h" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293807
<RAOF> So, not very hard, then.
<StevenK> Who's bright idea was it to move all of the header files around, anyway?
 * StevenK grins at RAOF, and kicks ffmpeg-debian until it implodes
<DktrKranz> iulian, yep... I've seen it, and it's seems it's already fixed upstream
<iulian> DktrKranz: Was that the package you were working on?
<RAOF> Mmmm, Mocha Chill.  The drink no-one seems interested in shipping out east.
<DktrKranz> iulian, it was insighttoolkit
<DktrKranz> it FTBFS that way
 * iulian takes a peek at it.
<StevenK> RAOF: Hmmm?
<StevenK> Hmmm. New wine.
<RAOF> StevenK: Wests Mocha Chill, or some such.  It was briefly stocked in NSW supermarkets last year, but isn't any more.
 * hyperair wonders if there's anybody free enough to review a package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<StevenK> RAOF: Perhaps it got branded with the same disdain that West Coast gets and was ignored ...
<StevenK> -		--with-ffmpeg-includes=/usr/include/ffmpeg
<StevenK> +		--with-ffmpeg-includes=/usr/include/libavcodec\ -I/usr/include/libavformat
 * StevenK sighs at siretart and ffmpeg-debian
<StevenK> That so shouldn't work
<StevenK> VideoEffectClip.H:31: error: conflicting declaration 'typedef struct gavl_video_frame_s gavl_video_frame_t'
<StevenK> /usr/include/gavl/gavl.h:1869: error: 'gavl_video_frame_t' has a previous declaration as 'typedef struct gavl_video_frame_t gavl_video_frame_t'
 * StevenK whimpers pathetically
<StevenK> Haha
<quentusrex> How is it possible to have a package in my repo, and have  a numbered release such as 1.0.2
<quentusrex> Then also have a package 1.0.2-svn2340???
<quentusrex> and if someone wants to run trunk, then they can, but otherwise they can only run the standard release???
<Laney> package and package-snapshog
<Laney> t*
<quentusrex> so it'd be handled like two different packages?
<quentusrex> that works.
<directhex> and your version number should be something like 1.0.2+svn2340-1 if it's based on 1.0.2 with addons, or 1.0.3~svn2340-1 if it's based on an as-yet unreleased 1.0.3
<quentusrex> awesome. thanks.
<RAOF> Answer: experimental's grub2 appears to be missing the --fs-uuid option to search, thus breaking the config.  Score!
<StevenK> Haha
<RAOF> At least it's got tab-autocompletion and a bash-like shell.
<RAOF> Now, if it only had a dvorak keymap...
<laga> well, grub1 also has tab completion and a shell
<RAOF> That wasn't meant to be a comparison; just that it's infinitely easier to fix because it *does* have those features than if it didn't.
<laga> yeah.
<NCommander> RAOF, your a dvoark user?
<laga> epic.
<StevenK> I'd learn dvorak, but I'm scared my wrists would break since they're use the brain-damage of qwerty
<StevenK> s/use/used to/
<NCommander> StevenK, I used to use dvorak, but then I found that by being incompable with the rest of the world sucked
<NCommander> although I think in the end my WPM went up
<StevenK> Neat way to make sure no one touches your computer
<StevenK> Hard to ssh into other machines using other peoples keyboards, then
<NCommander> StevenK, yeah, thats why I never changed the caps back to QWERTY after the experiment
 * NCommander is too paranoid on breaking this laptops caps to try and rearrange them though ...
<NCommander> StevenK, so how was your holiday BTW?
<StevenK> Still going
<quentusrex> I accidentally forgot to include a binary file in the orig, how can I update the orig and upload it to launchpad? or delete the orig that's in launchpad?
<james_w> StevenK: did you get anywhere with openmovieeditor?
<quentusrex> I'm trying to execute:  debuild -S -sd to rebuild the package with the binary file I forgot. but it's giving me the error:  dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to freeswitch-1.0.2/libs/libshout-2.2.2.tar.gz: binary file contents changed
 * StevenK checks
<quentusrex> And I can't change the orig and upload it because launch pad says it already has an orig.
<StevenK> james_w: Yeah. Now it wants img_convert from ffmpeg, but that isn't exported, since it's the old API, and disabled when you enable swscaler.
<james_w> you need to change the upstream version number
<james_w> StevenK: add libswscale-dev to Build-Depends
<james_w> StevenK: see the Debian bug report
<StevenK> Hmm
<quentusrex> james_w: from freeswitch-1.0.2-1ubuntu2 to???
 * StevenK tries that
<james_w> StevenK: however, it uses another deprecated ffmpeg function which has been removed in the version we have. Upstream has completely rewritten the code.
 * StevenK tries to not lose control and scream like a banshee
<Hobbsee> just pull it from the archive...
<StevenK> I'm seriously tempted to remove ffmpeg-debian and all of it's rdepends
<StevenK> AudioFileFfmpeg.cxx:135: error: 'avcodec_decode_audio' was not declared in this scope
<StevenK> james_w: I see that.
<quentusrex> james_w: from freeswitch-1.0.2-1ubuntu2 to???
<james_w> StevenK: that's the one
<james_w> quentusrex: freeswitch-1.0.2.0.repack-1ubuntu2 or something
<quentusrex> should I be using debuild -S -sa or debuild -S -sd?
<Hobbsee> quentusrex: -sa, as you want to be uploading the orig tarball to launchpad
<quentusrex> ok
<StevenK> FWIW, tarball in tarball is just sickening
<quentusrex> the software either needs the tarball in the libs/ folder or it will use svn to get it during build.
<quentusrex> but launchpad doesnt' allow internet access during build.
 * StevenK retches
<quentusrex> so, I have to manually include them... so that they'll build...
<quentusrex> yeah, I hate it. but the software works REALLY well and builds well too
<quentusrex> but it's hard to automatically package.
<james_w> huats: hey 4k, how are you?
<quentusrex> how do I cancel a launchpad build? It's hung....
<maxb> It'll time out eventually
<quentusrex> maxb: that'll take too long and take up too much resources...
<Hobbsee> you can't.
<quentusrex> :(
<quentusrex> it's been an hour
<quentusrex> https://launchpad.net/+builds/hassium
<StevenK> It will time out after 150 minutes
<quentusrex> :(
<quentusrex> but I need to trial and error to figure this out...
<StevenK> Wait, it gets tarballs from SVN?
<quentusrex> StevenK: yes...
<StevenK> Oh man, it gets even more disgusting
<StevenK> Right, I'm not sure that will die on it's own
<quentusrex> right...
<quentusrex> I dont' think it will...
<quentusrex> it'll keep trying the svn get.
<quentusrex> :(
<maxb> The wget will stop after 20 tries
<StevenK> quentusrex: If you're worried, join #canonical-sysadmin, and ask for it to be killed. But it is the 30th of December ...
<maxb> Hm, why's it downloading libshout instead of using the Ubuntu packaged one? Is the upstream buildsystem hardwired to be unable to use installed deps? (If so, how hideous :-( )
<huats> hey james_w !
<huats> how are you my friend ?
<james_w> huats: I am good thanks, how are you?
<huats> great too !
<huats> james_w: on holidays ?
<james_w> yup. you?
<huats> nope
<james_w> still not a MOTU I see :-)
<huats> but I am working from home today...
<huats> not yet...
<huats> I am just returning from the US (and the trip I did after the UDS..)
<james_w> ah, how was that?
<RainCT> Can someone here tell me how to use the touchpad? XDD  Sometimes it rotates the desktop cube, but I don't know how I've done it XD
<directhex> BUILD SUCCEEDED
<directhex> Total time: 237.3 seconds.
<directhex> ikvm, kiddies!
<Laney> directhex: all ready?
<directhex> Laney, not yet
<Laney> Also, helo from the East Coast Mainline!
<directhex> Laney, but i've got a build process going where it rebuilds the bootstrap binaries then rebuilds against those
 * Laney choo choos
<directhex> signed, no less!
<sebner> directhex: NBS shows libgnome2.0-cil and such stuff. Do you know if all the applications need a rebuild?
<directhex> sebner, no, no app needs rebuilding if it's been transitioned
<sebner> directhex: I see, thx :)
<directhex> sebner, that was the idea ;)
<sebner> directhex: ^^, well, I just checked the NBS page and saw that so I wos confused =)
<StevenK> RAOF: More grub2 testing?
<RAOF> Ding.
<ajmitch> how I detest when proprietary drivers go wrong
<Hobbsee> at 3am?
<ajmitch> sure, couldn't sleep, decided to upgrade some stuff
<ajmitch> big mistake
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> ajmitch: "U looz"
<ajmitch> just installing the nvidia 180.11 driver should be painless, right?
<StevenK> What Could Possibly Go Wrong
<Hobbsee> no
<ajmitch> StevenK: "No devices detected", of course
<ajmitch> I should probably just try & reboot instead of relying on rmmod/modprobe
<pschorf> can anyone help me get started packaging?
<Laney> pschorf: See the topic, and ask if you have any specific questions
<Laney> (start with a bitesize bug or two)
<pschorf> Laney, is there a better way than just scanning bugs to find one?
<Laney> pschorf: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.ha ...
<slytherin> any archive admin around who can process a sync bug?
<Laney> ... s_cve.used=&field.tag=bitesize&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_no_package.used= is a list of bugs that people have determined to be suitable for new contributors to work on
<Laney> ..
<Laney> http://is.gd/ebsa try that link
<pschorf> after I've written a patch and added it to debian/patches, does it matter which method I use to repackage the binary?
<persia> pschorf, Not really, although pbuilder and sbuild are recommended to convert source packages to binary packages.
<pschorf> persia, and to apply the patch, i just append it to series, right?
<maxb> I'd say it depends on the scenario. Is there any point in using pbuilder/sbuild when developing a package? Their use is mainly checking that it works in a clean environment, no?
<huats> pschorf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekedgy/PatchPackaging
<persia> pschorf, Yes, add it to series, and then construct the source package with something like `debuild -S -us -uc`
<huats> a session where pitti explains the various patches system...
<huats> it might help..
<pschorf> thanks
<pschorf> boy, setting up pbuild takes some time...
<StevenK> Linking program ==> 'blender'
<StevenK> sh: Syntax error: EOF in backquote substitution
<StevenK> ARGH
<slytherin> any archive admins around to process a sync bug?
<pschorf> which environment variable do you change so debsign knows the proper email address?
<StevenK> slytherin: Yes, but I'd rather not break my rule
<slytherin> StevenK: what rule?
<StevenK> "Thou shalt not do archive admin after midnight"
<StevenK> slytherin: If it's from unstable and easy, I'll do it
<slytherin> StevenK: it is from unstable, easy, and important because it will unblock jboss sync.
<StevenK> slytherin: Link me the bug
<StevenK> While I ponder hot, flaming and enjoyable death for the sadistic guy that wrote scons
<joaopinto> pschorf, DEBEMAIL
<slytherin> StevenK: bug #311564
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311564 in libjboss-web-services-java "Please sync libjboss-web-services-java 0.0+svn5660+dak2-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311564
<StevenK> slytherin: Er, surely that will be pulled in via the autosyncer?
<slytherin> StevenK: The package was fixed in Debian just after DIF.
<StevenK> Tasty.
<StevenK> libjboss-web-services-java | 0.0+svn5660+dak1-1 | jaunty/multiverse | source
<StevenK> libjboss-web-services-java | 0.0+svn5660+dak1-1 | jaunty/universe | all
<slytherin> StevenK: and that is the reason I logged the bug.
<slytherin> StevenK: well, there is another bug for moving all jboss related packages to universe.
<StevenK> slytherin: Right, then point me at that bug, and I'll fix the source tomorrow
<persia> That's dangerous to do after midnight.  Soyuz gets fussy if not tickled just right for component moves.
<StevenK> "and I'll fix the source tomorrow"
<StevenK> IE, after I sleep
<slytherin> StevenK: bug #309435
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309435 in libjboss-xml-binding-java "Please move jboss related packages to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309435
<pschorf> pbuilder would yell at me if there were any errors, correct
<persia> RIght.  Just providing justification :)
<StevenK> slytherin: Done
<StevenK> 4 dupes?
<StevenK> Odd
<slytherin> StevenK: thanks to broken requestsync in last week.
<StevenK> Fun
<slytherin> StevenK: thanks for sync. I will evaluate jboss sync tomorrow and log another bug.
<StevenK> slytherin: No problem. Prod me with the bug for multiverse -> universe ?
<StevenK> Oh, you have
 * StevenK goes back to hiding under his rock
<StevenK> That one requires a bunch of checking
<pschorf> After I add a debdiff to a bug report and subscribe the sponsors, I just wait?
<persia> pschorf, Pretty much.
<ScottK> pschorf: No.  Go fix something else while you wait ....  Don't just wait.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, time to review a fix for a main package?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Not really.  Just about to head off and do some stuff.
<DktrKranz> no problem, thanks
<jpds> nhandler: When you add new stuff to u-d-t, you have to add the script to setup.py otherwise it won't get installed.
<nhandler> jpds: Ok, I didn't know that.
<nhandler> I'll push a new revision to fix it
<jpds> nhandler: I just did and uploaded it to the archives.
<nhandler> Ok, thanks a lot jpds !
<jpds> nhandler: No problem, thank you for the great script.
<jpds> OK; Looks like my 0.50.1 upload of u-d-t has been eaten.
<jpds> Oh, wait, there it is.
<Adri2000> hmm, and 0.49 was never uploaded
<nhandler> Adri2000: I just noticed that too ;)
<jpds> Adri2000: Well nevermind.
<Adri2000> it was probably confusing that my changelog entry had "jaunty" while it was not uploaded. when using git, tags can help to know if a version was uploaded or not; how are we supposed to do with bzr? use "UNRELEASED" until it's uploaded?
<jpds> Yes, when you upload, make a new changelog entry with UNRELEASED and push.
<persia> Using "UNRELEASED" is a common practice.
<persia> Then, have a special commit when you set a target and publish.
<Adri2000> ok
<huats> pschorf: have you cancel your mail to the mentoring mailing list ?
<huats> (am I asking that since I am taking care of it..)
<pschorf> huats, yes
<pschorf> i wasn't sure if i needed to join the list first...
<pschorf> ijust reposted it
<huats> pschorf: you cannot join the list
<huats> :)
<pschorf> that's what i realized :P
<huats> the list is just a way of communication between the mentoring reception team :)
<huats> pschorf: so the next step is to found a good mentor for you
<huats> it would help if you tell us (by an email) which aspect you want to work on (desktop/server/ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/whatever).
<huats> and then we'll contact you soon with a good match :)
<pschorf> should I send another email to the main list?
<huats> it might be good yes..
<huats> with that informations...
<pschorf> alright, I've sent another through
 * Laney molests huats
<Laney> good work on bakery :D!
<huats> thanks Laney
<Laney> (I don't think I said this already...)
<huats> hope that help
<Laney> well
<huats> thanks pschorf
<Laney> glom crashes whenever I make a table
<Laney> but that's not your fault :(
<huats> oh !
<huats> hum
<huats> you should contact murray the author...
<Laney> yeah I will do
<Laney> just trying a test build from source
<huats> ok
<huats> Laney: if you need any help just let me know..
<Laney> thanks muchly
<Laney> actually
<Laney> fancy filing a bug on the BTS for bakery 2.6?
<huats> why not
<Laney> :>
<Laney> my goal is glom in Debian
<huats> but I really think that contacting murray about the pb is a better ay to deal with it
<huats> Laney: I know that Np237 is interested on tha
<huats> t
<huats> you should talk with him...
<Laney> huats: Who's that?
<huats> one of the main gnome guy for debian
<Laney> oh
<Laney> do they have a channel?
<huats> gnome-debian on gimpnet
<Laney> heh
<Laney> it's joss
<Laney> he's been controversial lately
<huats> he is joss indeed
<Laney> well pkg-gnome seems to maintain bakery so I guess we want to coordinate with them
<Laney> for bakery and glom
<huats> indeed that is the aim
<Laney> rock
<pschorf> huats, do you know how long the mentoring queue is?
<ScottK-desktop> pschorf: There's no need to wait for a formal mentor to be assigned.  You can always ask questions in the channel and usually someone will be around to answer.
<pschorf> could someone help me take a look at bug #151011?  I'm having trouble finding where in the code the changes need to occur.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 151011 in update-manager-core "do-release-upgrade does not provide guidance after view details" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151011
<jpds> imbrandon: Hey! :)
<ScottK-desktop> pschorf: mvo (you can usually find him on #ubuntu-devel) does substantially all the work on that package.  You probably ought to talk to him.
<jcastro> might be interesting to folks: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081230-why-ubuntu-users-should-care-about-debian.html
<ScottK> jcastro: Thanks for pointing that out.  Personally I'm pumped that they linked to the Python wiki page I wrote.
<jcastro> heh, neat
<imbrandon> jpds: hello
<imbrandon> heya jcastro
<jcastro> hi brandon, long time no see
<imbrandon> heh yea, irc eats alot of time :)
<imbrandon> been preparing for the move accross the pond :)
<jcastro> oh?
<imbrandon> work is opening a new office in london
<jpds> jcastro: Very interesting article.
<imbrandon> and i get to spend the next 2 years there getting it going :)
<jcastro> imbrandon: that sounds like fun
<jpds> imbrandon: Which part of London?
<imbrandon> jpds: not sure, i can get the addy here in a sec
<imbrandon> jcastro: yea, considering the main client we opened that office for ( Turner/Cartoon Network ) it should be a blast
<bluefoxicy> 18270 bluefox   20   0 1275m 521m  25m S   37 14.0  11:45.49 rhythmbox
<bluefoxicy> 11594 bluefox   20   0  923m 471m  30m R   16 12.7   3173:27 firefox
<imbrandon> jpds:     The Griffin Building
<imbrandon>     83 Clerkenwell Road
<imbrandon>     London
<imbrandon>     EC1R 5AR
<ScottK-desktop> imbrandon: This year's trip to KC ended up being very short.  We got delayed by freezing rain/ice on the way there, so there was no time to get together.
<ScottK-desktop> Sorry I missed it.
<jpds> imbrandon: You do know it's on the logs now? :(
<imbrandon> ScottK-desktop: np :)
<imbrandon> jpds: i am missing your point .... i think
<bluefoxicy> rhythmbox uses a lot of RAM o.o
<imbrandon> if you mean that irc is logged , yes i know :P
<jpds> imbrandon: Oh, in Soho, nice.
<imbrandon> :P
<bluefoxicy> 13025 bluefox   20   0  659m  65m  23m S    0  1.8   0:05.03 rhythmbox
<imbrandon> ScottK-desktop: just leaves more BBQ for me :)
<bluefoxicy> this is a just-started rhythmbox
<bluefoxicy> what?
<bluefoxicy> ribs?
<rhpot1991_laptop> anyone available to help with a SRU?
<Adri2000> rhpot1991_laptop: ask
<rhpot1991_laptop> I am working on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/302104
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 302104 in mythexport "Nominate for release" [Low,Confirmed]
<rhpot1991_laptop> was rejected before, I believe cause I didn't provide enough information, I'd like to know if anything else is needed
<rhpot1991_laptop> it also needs an ack from a motu I believe
<maxb> rhpot1991_laptop: I'm not a MOTU, but the description of how SRUs work is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates, which should let you understand whether your bug is adequate.
<maxb> I would suggest at the very least giving it a more descriptive summary line
<maxb> There is no justification in the bug for *why* this package should be SRUed. You definitely need to add that
<rhpot1991_laptop> one of the comments says why, the package is useless as is
<hyperair> could someone review my package please? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<pschorf> If you forget to change a bug's status until after subscribing sponsors, does it make a difference?
<Laney> no
<pschorf> also, if we submit a debdiff, does it automatically get pushed to an attached debian bug, or do we have to do it ourselves?
<rawler> hey people..
<jpds> Hey rawler.
<rawler> saw Debian Import Freeze was 25th of december.. is it the same deadline for packages from revu?
<pschorf> does anyone have time to look at a debdiff I put up earlier?
<Laney> rawler: No, that's feature freeze time
<Laney> pschorf: Which bug?
<pschorf> Laney bug 245898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245898 in isns "isns fails to config with dpkg" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245898
<rawler> Laney: cool.. I have a package I would like reviewed and sponsored.. also, upstream has just released a new minor-version.. I wonder if it's worth uploading the new version packaged as well.. :S
<Laney> pschorf: Looks good, except you need to target to Jaunty and not intrepid
<Laney> I trust you tested that it worked?
<Laney> i.e. the old package exhibits the bug and the new one doesn't
<pschorf> erm, no
<pschorf> :(
<pschorf> hang on
<Laney> heh
<Laney> also, was there already a patch system implemented?
<pschorf> i didn't think so
<pschorf> i just manually made the patch
<Adri2000> pschorf: in the changelog it should be LP: instead of Closes:, and modifying something inside debian/ shouldn't be done through a patch system
<Laney> oh, I missed the debian/
<Laney> yeah, just edit that directly
<pschorf> Ok.
<jjlee> There are a couple of bugs in tvtime I fixed on my local box.  Seems it's unmaintained upstream.  I've browsed around the MOTU wiki a bit, but didn't find all the answers yet
<jjlee> Are bugs fixed in Debian first, then ubuntu?
<ScottK> Ideally yes.
<jjlee> Is there a Debian / ubuntu VC repository somewhere for tvtime?
<ScottK> Sometimes we fix it here and then send the patch to Debian.
<jjlee> ok
<pschorf> Laney, Adri2000: I think I've fixed your concerns, can you look at the updated one at http://www.pastebucket.net/0cr1gf
<jjlee> I'm guessing there's just the tarballs, no VC (CVS, SVN / whatever)?
<Laney> pschorf: Don't change s-v
<jjlee> other than the original tvtime CVS on SF, that is
<Laney> pschorf: Target to jaunty
<jjlee> but it's not obvious that I haven't just missed some repo somewhere
<pschorf> Laney: do I need to have a jaunty environment set up to do that?
<jjlee> pschorf: that was my next question, too :-)
<Laney> pschorf: You should at least have a jaunty pbuilder/sbuild environment
<Amaranth> Although you can't test what you're building without running jaunty somewhere
<pschorf> ok
<Laney> Amaranth: You can test a lot of things by logging into a chroot
<pschorf> what is sbuild?  I don't think I've used it yet
<Amaranth> But even if you're running jaunty you should still use pbuilder to build the package
<Laney> pschorf: It does the same job as pbuilder
<tectroc> Hello, i'm new at packaging software/contributing, and wondering if there's a way to search for packages in launchpad, that needed to be updated.
<Laney> tectroc: There's an "update" tag, and also http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html
<Laney> if "new upstream" is what you mean by update
<pschorf> Laney, thanks.  To target jaunty, is it sufficient to set up the pbuilder environment and build inside?
<Laney> pschorf: Change it in the changelog, build it on Jaunty, test it on Jaunty
<jjlee> I guess it depends on the bug really
<jjlee> it'd be cheeky to not test an ALSA-related bug on jaunty proper
<tectroc> ok thanks
<jjlee> but another bug I was hoping to fix in tvtime is just about config files, seems a chroot would be enough
<pschorf> to test, all I need to do is install the package
<jjlee> is that a fair description of ubuntu policy?
<pschorf> is there a way I can do that in a jaunty environment without a full install?
<Laney> pschorf: Install old package, make bug happen, install new package, check bug is gone
<Laney> jjlee: There's no policy on this really
<pschorf> Laney, is there a way to do that in pbuilder or something?
<ScottK> Depending on where we are in the release cycle people are generally more or less strict about testing.
<Laney> pschorf: You can log into a pbuilder with pbuilder --login
<jjlee> Laney: so it's considered OK to test bugs in chroot or old system where reasonable?
<Laney> jjlee: Use your judgement really
<jjlee> right, thanks
<Laney> pschorf: You probably want --bindmounts to make your built .deb available to the chroot too
<jjlee> re my version control question again: is there a way to reliably find all VC repositories for a given package?
<jjlee> all "official" ones, that is
<Laney> jjlee: Should be in debian/control
<Laney> you mean for the packaging, not for upstream?
<pschorf> Laney, what would I pass to pbuilder create to get a jaunty environment?
<Laney> pschorf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Laney> that'll be more helpful for you
<jjlee> Laney: mostly packaging, but both, really
<Laney> jjlee: Well if the packaging is in VCS then it should be in debian/control
<Laney> for upstream you generally have to look at their homepage
<jjlee> tvtime has no Vcs-* fields, so I guess it's safe to assume there are none
<Laney> right
<jjlee> thanks
<pschorf> Laney, i'm still not quite clear on how to build the package and then install it...I can build it successfully with pbuilder build, but it disappears by the time i login
<Laney> pschorf: You have to login with --bindmounts /path/to/result
<Laney> then install it again
<pschorf> the result is in /var/cache, correct?
<Laney> I think the default is /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<jjlee> One of the tvtime bugs I have in mind is the lack of ALSA support.  There's been a patch around for a long time (which does not remove OSS support).
<jjlee> Would that be suitable for jaunty?
<jjlee> before feature-freeze, so I suppose yes?
<jjlee> Presumably it's just a question of whether anybody reviews and applies the patch...?
<jjlee> (after I file a bug)
<pschorf> Laney, everything tests out properly in pbuilder
<pschorf> should I add a new comment with the updated debdiff?
<jjlee> Hmm, according to this message, *everything* is going to be in bzr for jaunty: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-September/000481.html
<jjlee> has that happened yet?
<emet> jjlee: I think so
<jjlee> is there a wiki page or something that discusses the current state of these VC etc. developments in jaunty?
<emet> no idea :(
<jjlee> the ones he discusses in second-to-last paragraph in that message?
<emet> there is also a channel #bzr it is possible that they know more
<Laney> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/
<jjlee> the bzr people are heavily involved in ubuntu?
<Laney> pschorf: Write that on the bug with the new debdiff
<emet> bzr I am pretty sure is sponsored by the same organization which sponsors Ubuntu
<jjlee> I see
<pschorf> Laney, is this all I need to do for the patch?
<emet> jjlee: the wiki page Laney posted looked pretty interesting
<Laney> pschorf: Right, the sponsors are already subscribed and they'll get to it in time
<jjlee> yeah, thanks Laney, I'm reading through the linked-to stuff now
<pschorf> Laney, thanks for all your help.
<Laney> pschorf: You can forward it to debian using "submittodebian" from ubuntu-dev-tools
<emet> hey Laney are you MOTU?
<Laney> emet: no
<Laney> not yet, anyway...
<emet> okay
<emet> this bzr repo for every package thing sounds pretty cool
<emet> I guess anyone could branch a package?
<jjlee> emet: that's what MS was saying in that post
<jmarsden|work> emet: See also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrContributorHowto
<emet> this is pretty cool
<pschorf> does anyone know how to add a po file to gettext?
<jmarsden|work> pschorf: Use xgettext, and its friends?
<pschorf> jmarsden|work, i was going to add the german translation for the nautilus image converter from gnome's SVN.  Can I just add the file in dpatch and add it to LINGUAS?
<pschorf> add de.po, that is
<jmarsden|work> Possibly... that is going to be package specific; it all depends what the makefile(s) do.  You'll have to read and understand the Makefile(s) concerned to be sure.
<ScottK> Ubuntu has it's own translation system, so I don't think adding it to the package actually works.
<jjlee> I hope this means somebody's working towards committing changes to the source itself rather than to the debian/ directory: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NoMoreSourcePackages
<ScottK> jjlee: Why?  Patches are a lot more understandable than undifferentiated diff in the source.
<jjlee> but it's easy to get the diff, right?
<jjlee> once it's in VC
<jjlee> it's easier to edit plain old source than on patches
<jjlee> the idea seems to be to use something similar to stacked-git to represent the patches in the VC repository
<jjlee> so the concept of patch is still there
<ScottK> Using the common patch systems in Debian/Ubuntu editing patches directly is almost never necessary.
<jjlee> (in addition to the concept of a commit / changeset)
<ScottK> Only if you have access to the vcs.  It's not present in the source package any more.
<jjlee> what source package?  See title of wiki page
<ScottK> Well that's a long ways down the road.
<jjlee> "Using the common patch systems": I thought the idea was to make maintaining packages easier?
<jjlee> If so, obsoleting some of the mountain of Debian odds and ends would be a good thing
<ScottK> If your comfortable using bzr, I'm sure it is/will be.
<jjlee> sure, a long way down the road is fine
<ScottK> In favor of an Ubuntu odd and end doesn't seem like progress, but that's just me.
<jjlee> being comfortable with systems like bzr is a transferable skill that solves a more general problem
<ScottK> VCS has advantages, but it's not pure win.
<ScottK> Right, so using something that's not virtually Ubuntu unique.
<jjlee> many people (cough) think that a lot of the Debian / ubuntu packaging stuff fills a much-needed gap <duck>
<jjlee> right
<jjlee> the community seems more valuable than the tools
<ScottK> Getting the packaging in a VCS is a long term win if we do it smart.
<jjlee> yes, it looks promising
<howa> rate my new site !! http://www.hardstylersunited.dk/
<jpds> That works too.
<emgent> lol
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-31
<Flapjack23> I had a question about packaging something. Should I ask it here, or somewhere else?
<vorian> this is the place!
<Flapjack23> Cool!
<orly_owl> The price is right!
<vorian> Flapjack23: what's your question?  :)
<vorian> oh, past tense
<Flapjack23> I'm trying to figure out how to ask it. :)
<Flapjack23> I have this directory that holds a prebuilt LAMP server, I was wondering if it was possible to package it. There's nothing that needs to be compiled.
<vorian> well.... lamp in it self is a set of binaries, not to mention the server binaries that are required to support it.
<vorian> are you wanting to create an iso?
<Flapjack23> Nope, a deb.
<vorian> in that case, not really, although that would be quite the package
<Flapjack23> All right, thanks.
<vorian> :)
<StevenK> Again?
<StevenK> Oh wait, that was Fremantle
<Flapjack23> is it possible to change where a deb is extracted to?
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4380, thanks
<siretart> StevenK: having fun with ffmpeg?
<StevenK> siretart: Not so much.
<siretart> StevenK: why are you tempted to break half of kubuntu by removing ffmpeg-debian?
<StevenK> I've convinced ten of the twenty to build.
<StevenK> siretart: Because all the headers moved, and the API broke from the jump from 51 to 52.
<siretart> yes. I've been beaten by a lot of users why I didn't do that move yet in intrepid already
<StevenK> Whimper
<siretart> so I've decided to do that move right after intrepid release
 * ScottK looks at vorian and hopes he's reading.
<StevenK> But a whole bunch of stuff doesn't build.
<siretart> btw, I plan to do another update early january (read: next week)
<siretart> no API changes, however AFAIUI
<StevenK> siretart: Will that do anything drastic?
<siretart> I don't think so
<siretart> however many improvments, a few new codecs and so on
<StevenK> Mmm
<siretart> I was aware of the breakage from the soname bump, however. I deliberatly tied the move of the header files with the SONAME bump
<siretart> so that we don't have that mess that often
<StevenK> Mmmm
<StevenK> I've had a do a whole raft of Ubuntu changes, since the new ffmpeg is in experimental and Joe Random DD doesn't care
<siretart> ffmpeg from experimental will enter unstable as soon as squeeze opens
<StevenK> Yup
<siretart> are there still packages depending on img_convert?
<siretart> I read something like that in the backlog?
<StevenK> I've got two, so far
<siretart> which ones?
<StevenK> There's three or four that have been updated upstreamed
<StevenK> *upstream
<siretart> ok. great
<ScottK> StevenK: If you trip over kdenlive, vorian is working on a new upstream release.
<StevenK> lynkeos.app is one
<StevenK> ScottK: I'm ignoring kdenlive
<ScottK> OK.
<StevenK> siretart: So, lynkeos.app and smilutils. But I don't know where to grab smilutils upstream
<siretart> ok, that was already reported as debian bug 487645
<ubottu> Debian bug 487645 in smilutils "smilutils: uses depreciated img_convert function, please port to" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/487645
<StevenK> Grah, zoneminder too
<StevenK> Hm. Upstream have ported zoneminder, just need them to release
<DktrKranz> Lutin, do you plan to upgrate mlt to 0.3.4? It would probably fix some FTBFS on several ports and would help clearing NBS queue
<Lutin> DktrKranz: no. I don't have time to care about it, sorry. if anyone feells like doing it, feel free
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks :)
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone remove ubuntume-themes from REVU ?
<persia> AnAnt, Did it get uploaded?
<AnAnt> persia: yup, rmadison says so
<persia> AnAnt, Archiving then.
<AnAnt> I got a question
<AnAnt> I am packaging a software, which authoritative license is in arabic
<AnAnt> what should I put in copyright file ?
<AnAnt> only the english translation of the license ? or both english & the authoritative arabic license ?
<persia> A translation of the license, with a pointer to the original license (shipped also in /usr/share/doc/${package}/
<AnAnt> ok
<RainCT> asac: in case it interests you, network manager 2.0 from the network-manager PPA works like a charm here :)
<RainCT> (the version in Intrepid had problems connecting to wifi sometimes)
<jpds> RainCT: There's a 2.0 already?
<jpds> I only see 0.7.
<RainCT> jpds: errrr 0.7 final
<jpds> Maybe this one will work with hibernation.
<RainCT> jpds: here both work, but sound doesn't :(
<jpds> RainCT: When I hibernate here, NM dies and can't reconnect to wifi.
<lidaobing> help review ibus-m17n: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4384 , thanks
<ripps> Can someone here help me figure out why some packages of mine won't work with my PPA?
<DktrKranz> ripps, compile errors?
<ripps> DktrKranz: Yes, and another won't even package for upload
<DktrKranz> ripps, link to your PPA?
<ripps> http://launchpad.net/~ripps818/+archive
<DktrKranz> qgtkstyle ?
<ripps> qgtktray builds, packages, and installs fine on my machine, but fails on launchpad.
<ripps> * um yeah, qgtkstyle
<stdin> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++/qmake.conf', needed by `Makefile'.  Stop.
<DktrKranz> ripps, try again adding libqt4-dev to build-deps
<Laney> ping ping
<Laney> anyone from motu-sru about?
<Laney> DktrKranz: Damn, I was hoping you still were :P
<DktrKranz> Laney, heh... late :)
<DktrKranz> Laney, if you see devfil around, you can ask him (assuming he's not already drunk)
<slytherin> ripps: when you say it builds fine, did you try building it in pbuilder?
<ripps> Actually, I just installed pbuilder just a little while ago, but I haven't used it yet
<ripps> I'm uploading the changed qgtkstyle now.
<ripps> Is pbuilder going to have to re-download every dependency every time?
<DktrKranz> ripps, it caches them in /var/cache/pbuilder/archive
<DktrKranz> *aptcache
<ripps> qgtkstyle failed again
<ripps> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20829600/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.qgtkstyle_svn875~ripps1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ripps> I think I should have added libgtk2.0-dev as well.
<DktrKranz> yep
<ripps> I wish dh-make would have detected these dependencies before hand. Would make my life easier
<ripps> Okay, while I'm testing these qgtkstyle with pbuilder, how about some help with another package.
<ripps> I can'
<ripps> I can't even get the package gtrayicon to package.
<ripps> debuild fails every time, and it gives me some cryptic failure on line 16**.
<slytherin> ripps: we can't help you unless you tell us what the error is.
<ripps> slytherin: okay, I'm rewriting my control file, seeing if that'll change anything.
<ripps> http://pastebin.com/m2457e8de
<slytherin> ripps: is this really cryptic error - rm: cannot remove `gtrayicon': No such file or directory
<ripps> I know
<ripps> slytherin: I know that getdeb managed to create a working deb, but I don't know how to replicate what they did. They must have had a modified makefile.
<ripps> slytherin: whoa, if I do make then debuild -S, it works.
<ripps> Let's see if it'll work when compiled with debuilder
<ripps> * I mean pbuilder
<ripps> (if it'll ever stop d/ling dependecies for qgtkstyle)
<ripps> Nope, gtrayicon failed. http://pastebin.com/m7dd1376e
<slytherin> ripps: you probably don't have debhelper as build dependency. Have you read any packaging guide?
<ripps> I've read some of it, but alot of it seemed like greek to me.
<ripps> I'm still a noob at this.
<slytherin> ripps: for your own benefit. go through the guide, lot of your questions are solved there.
<pschorf> I'm making the switch to jaunty...
<pschorf> see you on the other side
<ripps> Okay, I've read over the packaging guide (at least what I could understand), fixed the dependecies, successfully build (but not install) with pbuilder. I still can't figure out what's wrong with qgtkstyle.
<ripps> I get a Permission Denied?
<ripps> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20830483/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.qgtkstyle_svn875~ripps2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ripps> I managed to get gtrayicon to build in pbuilder, but I had to comment out a "$(MAKE) clean" to get it to compile, but I suffer from the same problem as qgtkstyle. I think dh-make screwed up with something.
 * ripps begins to pull out hair in frustration
<jmarsden|work> ripps: Try working through the examples in the Packaging Guide first, and when you understand what every line in debian/rules is doing, *then* try a package of your choice such as gtrayicon.
<ripps> I think I figured it out. The Makefiles of these programs don't follow normal naming schemes, so I have to edit debian/rules and Makefile to make them work together.
<jmarsden|work> Yes, that's very common , "normal" even, if the original tarball does not use autotools.
<ripps> YES YES YES YES YES YES!!! qgtkstyle built!
<RainCT> Hi
<sebner> ahoi radix
<sebner> ahoi RainCT
<sebner> ^^
<RainCT> Can someone help me to get my computer to boot? :P   (tried out grub2 and after that it doesn't boot anymore, only gives either error 11 if I use UUIDs or error 23 if I try with (sd0,1) for root.. nobody replies in #ubuntu nor in #grub :()
<sebner> RainCT: OT :P
<RainCT> ^^
<sebner> RainCT: Grub2 more b0rken than Gnome :D
<RainCT> indeed -.-
 * RainCT won't try it again :P
<sebner> +1
<RainCT> argh.. wth does grub call sda1 hd0,0? -.-
<Nafallo> RainCT: cat /boot/grub/device.map
<RainCT> (btw, I can boot again.. but I still don't know why using UUID doesn't work anymore)
<RainCT> Nafallo: but why hd0 and not sd0?
<Nafallo> RainCT: because grub isn't the kernel?
<ripps> YES! Gtrayicon built succesfully! Thanks to whoever helped me!
<jpds> ripps: Well done!
<RainCT> bah.. I hate grub XD
<ScottK> emgent: It seems your web hosting isn't very reliable recently.  Have you considered getting UTU integrated with Ubuntu HoF (now that such a thing exists)?
<ScottK> directhex: FYI, I'm hearing gumbles that the dependency resolvers in the Experimental buildd's are having problems with the mono transition stuff.  Don't know the details (and I did pass on the kdebindings stuff).
<Laney> ScottK: Someone already raised that in #debian-mono - see http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20
<ScottK> Laney: OK.  Just making sure he knows.
<DktrKranz> See you in 2009, happy New Year everyone!
<nhandler> ScottK: Ubuntu HoF doesn't actually host anything. It just pulls the information from other sites. emgent's UTU page would need to be up for the HoF to be able to include it
<ScottK> nhandler: Where does it get sponsorship results from?
<ScottK> AFAIK it calculates them from -changes.
<ScottK> Which is the same data source UTU uses.
<nhandler> ScottK: It might, I haven't seen the source. I was under the impression that is just pulled all of the data from other sources, and that it didn't actually calculate the data itself
<slytherin> What is the username/password to be used for using email interface of requestsync?
<nhandler> slytherin: I don't think there is a username/password
<slytherin> nhandler: The script is not working for me. It says sync request mailed but the bug was not filed. So I thought it was auth problem.
<nhandler> slytherin: I can't really help you. I was never able to get the email interface of requestsync to work either. But from what I've read, you shouldn't need to set an email/password
<nhandler> s/email/username/
<jpds> slytherin: I think filing by email takes a while to appear on the web.
<nhandler> jpds: Do you need to configure something to make it work?
<jpds> nhandler: Don't think so.
<slytherin> jpds: what is exact value of 'a while'?
<jpds> slytherin: Few minutes (~5).
<slytherin> jpds: I waited for more than that.
<jpds> slytherin: Very odd.
<jpds> slytherin: Do you have a $DEBEMAIL variable in your shell that is set as one of your emails on Launchpad?
<slytherin> jpds: yes I have it. My sync mail text was signed using the corresponding key.
<jpds> slytherin: I have no idea what's wrong then, which package is it?
<slytherin> jpds: jbossas4. I file bug manually later.
<jpds> slytherin: bug #312778
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312778 in jbossas4 "Please sync jbossas4 4.2.3.GA-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312778
<slytherin> jpds: that is the bug I filed
<jpds> With requestsync?
<slytherin> jpds: No. The bug content is the one generated by requestsync.
<slytherin> But filing bug was done from web UI.
<slytherin> I mean LP web ui.
<jpds> Ah, so, why are you going to file one "manually later"?
 * jpds got confused by that^ :)
<slytherin> jpds: is fiordland.ubuntu.com correct smtp server?
<jpds> slytherin: Yep.
<slytherin> jpds: mailed another sync request. Let's see when it appears.
<jpds> slytherin: If all else fails, try it with --lp.
<slytherin> jpds: --lp is crazy these days. few days before it opend 5 bug reports.
<slytherin> jpds: bug #311289
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311289 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync --lp is crazy (opens multiple bug reports)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311289
<jpds> slytherin: I saw that yes, no idea how that happened either.
<hyperair> is anyone free to review a package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<slytherin> jpds: haven't got any mail till now
<wyden> hi everybody!
<jpds> Hi wyden
<wyden> what's up there?
<skorasaurus> hi
<skorasaurus> (#bugs is so quiet...)
<crimsun> quiet does not imply lack of effort
<skorasaurus> we hope :p
<RainCT> \o/ Happy new year
<jpds> Happy new year everyone! \o/
<serialorder> not quite new year here but happy new year
<serialorder> if I want need delete some files from a source tree and there is a quilt patch system how should I go about doing that?
<crimsun> ok, graphviz bugscount down to something manageable
#ubuntu-motu 2009-01-01
<bobbo> woo happy new year all UK people!
<Nafallo> NHY!
<crimsun> now go squash some bugs!
<Nafallo> crimsun: lol
 * serialorder grabs watch to fix second hand
<pwnguin> if debian fixes a bug in their BTS, and we sync the package, is that sufficient to close the bug?
<crimsun> presuming "the bug" refers to a bug registered in lp, yes
<pwnguin> yes, sorry, a bug reported in lp (bts changed theirs on upload)
<crimsun> and presuming "sufficient" implies "i can now close the bug", yes. (i don't know of a method to automatically close bugs on syncs)
<pwnguin> oh neat. people still commit to desmume svn
<ScottK> Happy New Year from -0500
<NCommander> Happy New Year EST
<NCommander> damn it
 * NCommander whacks ScottK 
<crimsun> same to you, fellow east coast USers
 * ScottK notices NCommander blowing his chances for getting sponsored tonight.
<pwnguin> tuxmaniac: someone in -devel thinks ngspice might be ready for reinclusion in debian/ubuntu
<pwnguin> tuxmaniac: thoughts?
<tuxmaniac> pwnguin: hmm let me have a look
<highvoltage> happy new year motus
<amikrop> Will that remember my compiz options? (like System->Appearance->Effects->None/Custom) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=873022
<jpds> thekorn: Is there any way I can make launchpadbugs go to staging instead of the main site? I'm trying to fix bug #311289.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311289 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync --lp is crazy (opens multiple bug reports)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311289
<thekorn> jpds, yes, let me try to find out how
<thekorn> jpds, http://paste.ubuntu.com/97663/
<jpds> thekorn: dankeschÃ¶n.
<thekorn> jpds, bitte ;)
<thekorn> I'm wondering how hard it would be to switch all these tools to launchpadlib and use the lp API
<jpds> Oh crap: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ngircd
<thekorn> hehe good work, good for your karma
<laga> heh
<jpds> thekorn: Not sure that's what the archive admins will say tho.
<jpds> Lucky, they weren't subscribed.
<vorian> haha
<yann2> hello :)
<jpds> bonjour yann2
<yann2> I need someone to be approve me in the ubuntu-member group in launchpad.. I've been approved at some point in 2005, and then asked for that group thing again in 2006, but it somehow never got done
<yann2> I got IRC logs to prove my point? :] (thanks for logging years back) http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php?title=UbuntuWiki:MeetingLogs/CC_2006-05-02&variant=zh-hans (search for yann)
<jpds> yann2: You didn't renew it on time?
<yann2> jpds > renew? I think I've never been a member.. I didn't even have a launchpad account at the time :/
<yann2> can't really remember to be fair, I think ubuntu-members got created after i first got approved, and the second time mako forgot, can't really remember - never found any use for it until now, trying to add a blog to the planet :)
<persia> yann2, Best bet would be to attend one of the RMB meetings and present your history.  The Ubuntu Member admins are usually present at those.
<savvas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards
<yann2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/10/31/%23ubuntu-meeting.html  if that helps
<yann2> savvas > you think I need to reattend? i just wrote a nice new year's post :'(
<savvas> just reattend to be re-approved, it shouldn't be that hard with your proof :)
<persia> yann2, The trick is 1) getting your statement to the attention of an admin of the Ubuntu Members group, and 2) doing so in a way that that admin can have confidence in peer review of their review of the docs.
<savvas> weird, i thought they have a channel
<jpds> thekorn: Well, this is just weird, filing to staging only creates one bug, while the real thing makes 5.
<persia> savvas, No, there's no special membership board channel.
<persia> yann2, If you really can't attend, you could just send mail to your regional board: the RMB secretary might add you.
<yann2> where can I find the email address for that?
<persia> Which region?
<jpds> EMEA.
<yann2> europe
<persia> strange: the addresses don't seem to be posted anywhere.
<jpds> I suggest writing to the CC, they'll add you with the proof.
<yann2> that's what  email address? :P
<thekorn> jpds, hmm, really? that's strange, why five, looking at the code I don't see how this could happen
<jpds> yann2: community-council @ lists .ubuntu .com
<jpds> thekorn: I think someone changed something on the LP side.
<yann2> I'll give that a try thanks
<thekorn> jpds, ok, let me have a deeper look
<savvas> persia: nevertheless, i think some of them hang out at #ubuntu-meeting right?
<jpds> thekorn: Thanks.
<savvas> I wonder if they would accept me heh, I filed once, but failed to stay on the meeting for long time until my turn came :\
<yann2> ok mail sent; thanks for your help persia and jpds  :)
<jpds> yann2: De rien.
<thekorn> jpds, sorry, I cannot confirm this behaviour of py-lp-bugs, all the bugreports I created were filed once
<jpds> thekorn: Very odd indeed, then.
<jpds> thekorn: Maybe it's a problem in edge, should I force HTTPCONNECTION.MODE.STABLE?
<thekorn> jpds, ok, I'm able to reproduce this by running requestsync,
<thekorn> let me try to understand how this tools works
<jpds> thekorn: You have all the time in the world :)
<Adri2000> ah, you're looking into that bug, great :)
<Adri2000> btw, happy new year everyone!
<jpds> Adri2000: Likewise!
<Adri2000> crimsun, pwnguin: re to what you were saying a few hours ago: if a debian changelog contains LP: #nnnnnn, that bug will get automatically closed when syncing
<thekorn> jpds, ok, I understand now why this happens, but I'm not sure if it is an issue in py-lp-bugs or in launchpad
<jpds> thekorn: Why is it happening?
<thekorn> jpds, I'm adding a comment to the bug now with an explaination
<thekorn> jpds,  launchpadbugs.HTTPConnection._safe_urlopen() is somehow broken,
<jpds> thekorn: Achso.
<thekorn> jpds, have you ever seen this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/97716/  it happens when I try to run requestsync in a virtualenv
<jpds> thekorn: There's a common.py file in the lp:ubuntu-dev-tools.
<thekorn> hmm, the path to common.py is hardcoded in requestsync :(
<jpds> It's suppose to be added a line before..
<thekorn> yeah, but I don't have u-dev-tools installed on my system
<thekorn> well, not in /usr/share/ubuntu-dev-tools/
<jpds> Hmm.
<thekorn> the easiest solution would be to move it to the ubuntutools package
<jpds> I don't think we use that packge.
<thekorn> so setup.py will handle it properly
<thekorn> jpds, I suggest a fix like in lp:~thekorn/ubuntu-dev-tools/fix_import_common (see diff of last revision), this is how it works for me
<jpds> RainCT: Can you take a look at the above when you have time^. Thanks.
<jpds> thekorn: Launchpad still needs to publish it..
<jpds> thekorn: I think the problem with that is that there are people who were against having a python-ubuntutools package.
<thekorn> jpds, I don't understand much about packaging, but this package=... in setup.py should not create a seperate (source)-package, it is just a python package
<thekorn> alternatively you can leave common.py where it is and put something like py_modules=['common']  in setup.py
<lan3y> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adonthell-data
<Laney> notice something?
 * Laney slaps requestsync
<Laney> oh, there's already a bug for it \o
<Laney> sebner: bug #312950 bug #312952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312950 in adonthell "Please sync adonthell 0.3.5-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312950
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312952 in adonthell-data "Please sync adonthell-data 0.3.5-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312952
<Laney> For your ack, good sir
<sebner> Laney: heh, kk. Though most thing it's a bad behaviour not subscriping u-u-s ;)
<Laney> sebner: You said you wanted to sponsor my stuff
<Laney> also, I thought requestsync did that
<Laney> but it did break down with -data, so maybe it didn't get that far
<sebner> Laney: sure but I'm in u-u-s as well. it's more the official way. I'll review it of course now
<Laney> sebner: I think vorian has taken adonthell! :O speedy
<sebner> Laney: just wanted to assign it to me and noticed. O_o
<Laney> super sponsors!
<sebner> with super moo powers! :D
<DktrKranz> sebner, bad behaviour... you forgot our queries? ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: he?
<Laney> hmm?
<DktrKranz> sebner, I sponsored some merges for you directly in query ;)
<DktrKranz> but no money yet....
<sebner> mailing seems to be very slowly in Italy ... not my fault :P
<DktrKranz> mmmh... I'll go for a trip in Hermagor
 * sebner hides
<tuxmaniac> [Off-topic] Any body attending FOSDEM 2009 in Bruselees?
<vorian> Laney: hehe :)
<vorian> I have time off from work for the first time since June
<Laney> spending it wisely I see :)
<vorian> yep!
<nhandler> vorian: Your time off of work is forcing me to work harder
<vorian> nhandler: i normally work 50+ hours (mostly AFK save the iPhone)
<nhandler> vorian: Yes, but now that you are spending more time on REVU and sponsoring, I need to also spend more time if I want to keep ahead of you in the HoF
<vorian> lol
<vorian> well, the 6th/7th is some packagig action for a certain RC release
 * nhandler is up for some packaging
<vorian> :)
<vorian> i was thinking it was for the 3rd, but I can wait a day or two
<nhandler> You were probably thinking about the meeting on the 3rd
<vorian> there is some really old stuff needing revu'd - maybe it's time to get that sorted :)
<vorian> what meeting?
<vorian> ah!
<vorian> yes
<nhandler> Well, time for some REVUing
<vorian> o/
 * vorian takes tt
<nhandler> Go ahead. I have an inbox full of packages that I need to re-REVU.
<vorian> like codelite, or whatever?
<nhandler> That is one of them ;)
<vorian> that thing should be 18 binaries imo
<vorian> it's flippin huge
<nhandler> vorian: IIRC, he was working on splitting it up
<vorian> he didn't
<vorian> actually, he did make it two binaires
<nhandler> Well, that is a start
<nhandler> I'll look at it more later
<mrooney> Anyone want to give me a holiday present and review wxbanker? :)
<sebner> happy new year jono \o/
<jono> sebner, happy new year! :)
<gpled> bddebian: you there?
<bddebian> More or less :)
<bddebian> gpled: What can I do for ya?
<vorian> merry Festivus mrooney (see inbox)
<mrooney> vorian: thanks! :)
<vorian> :)
<mrooney> I shall get on those improvements
<vorian> excellent!
<mrooney> vorian: is the standards version definitely something to fix?
<vorian> yes, it's very outdated
<mrooney> vorian: oh okay, is there an easy way to see the changes between those and see what I need to adjust?
<vorian> if you make the adjusments I mentioned, you will be on your way
<vorian> for that specific error, you need to change it in debian/control
<vorian> s/3.7.3/3.8.0
 * vorian takes a walk
<nhandler> mrooney: You might be interested in this http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2008/06/msg00001.html
<mrooney> nhandler: thanks, that is great!
<nhandler> mrooney: lintian is also your friend ;)
<bbechdol> Hi all
<bbechdol> Happy New Year
<Adri2000> mrooney: more generally, the checklist for each new version of debian-policy is available in /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
<sebner> Adri2000: is a special package needed? sebner doesn't have a  /usr/share/doc/debian-policy xD
<Adri2000> debian-policy :)
<sebner> Adri2000: heh, thx. should be preinstalled though
<blueyed> I want to merge a package from Debian experimental.. AFAICS it's not provided on merges.ubuntu.com or DaD. Is the script which provides the automerge available somewhere?
<ScottK> Not AFAIK.  You get to do it by hand.
 * pochu always does merges by hand
<Adri2000> blueyed: DaD and MoM are both open-source, but not easy to set up and not designed to produce a merge for a single package. so the easiest way would probably be to do it by hand as ScottK said
<blueyed> Thanks. So I guess I need some help. I have the latest Ubuntu source and the new Debian source.. now I need to apply the differences between the diff.gz's to the new source, right? Would I use interdiff for that?
<ScottK> blueyed: I'd unpack both packages and diff -ruN the debian dirs in both and that'd give you a clean patch to work from.
<ScottK> Assuming no direct changes in the upstream source, of course.
<ScottK> Dear emgent: Please be fixing your web server again.
<crimsun> Adri2000: yes, if the changelog contains that syntax, yes. however, if it _doesn't_, then there's nothing that i know of that automatically marks the lp bug fix released. i suppose one could say that a bzr commit with the --lp syntax does.
<Adri2000> crimsun: bzr commit --lp? never heard of that
<crimsun> well, it's actually --fixes lp:foo
<crimsun> http://news.launchpad.net/12-days-of-launchpad/day-three-marking-bugs-as-fixed-from-within-bazaar
<crimsun> (it's also fix committed, anyhow)
<Adri2000> interesting
<anakron> HI all
<hanska> sebner: \o/
<sebner> hanska: ahoi ;)
<Laney> hanska: !!!
<Laney> Trying to get your shiny email? :P
<hanska> Laney: !!!
<hanska> Laney: yeah, I explained sebner why :)
<Laney> to save the world
<hanska> Laney: I have lots of packages in Debian, and I also usually look at LP when fixing bugs
<hanska> :)
<Laney> \o
<hanska> Laney: that too, yes. I'll be the super-uber-cross-distro-developer ftw!
<anakron> MSG RainCT OLA
<Laney> One of my friends told me yesterday that his new years resolution is to go free software
<Laney> I've influenced someone \o/
<hanska> Laney: \o/
<hanska> sebner: so, once here, what should I do?
<hanska> sebner: (we'll do that tricky thing some other day :))
<Laney> hanska: Whenever you update your package in Debian, you can file a sync request to get it into Ubuntu once you've tested it builds and runs. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<Laney> but be sure to respect freezes etc
<hanska> Laney: ack
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule
<hanska> Laney: DebianImportFreeze is the deadline for syncs, right?
<Laney> hanska: Nah, that's just when automatic sync stop
<Laney> you can still ask for them manually up until FF
<hanska> ah "automatic"
<Laney> and after FF if they fix bugs and have no new features
<hanska> FF FeatureFreeze?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> QA only after that is the idea
<sebner> hanska: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers :D
<hanska> uhm, ok
<hanska> AFAICT, Ubuntu works differently from Debian, right?
<hanska> let me explain :)
<hanska> the packages are all maintained by MOTUs
<hanska> no one has "own" packages
<Laney> right
<RainCT> true
<hanska> k
<ScottK> Although informally if you see someone has done a lot of work on a particular package, you might want to talk to them before changing something.
<hanska> yep, ok
 * hanska is a Debianer :)
 * ScottK understands - does a fair amount of work in Debian too.
<hanska> ScottK: the fact is, I want to effectively reduce the delta between packages I'm maintaining in Debian and their respectives in Ubuntu
<ScottK> hanska: Excellent.  That's in the interest of both distros.
<hanska> i.e.: doing synchronized releases, fixing bugs reported in BTS/LP, ...
 * Laney has recently discovered the fun of updating packages in debian
<hanska> Laney: eheh, go work on -mono, GO!
 * Laney is writing an application to a certain council............
 * Laney runs
<hanska> Laney: !!!
<hanska> Laney: I will refer to meebey :P
<Laney> not the big scary DD
<hanska> eheh
<hanska> I'm going to file my first sync request
<hanska> hope I get it right :)
<Laney> hanska: There's a "requestsync" script in ubuntu-dev-tools
<Laney> makes life easier
<ScottK> hanska: But be sure to file it with -s so it'll show up needing sponsor review.
<hanska> ok
<ScottK> hanska: Feel free to ping me for a review after you've filed it.
<hanska> Laney: that's not in Debian :)
<Laney> ScottK: requestsync autodetects that now
 * hanska goes to packages.u.c
<ScottK> Laney: OK.
<ScottK> Nevermind about that bit then.
<hanska> uhm, depends on python-launchpad* which we don't have either :/
<Laney> that bit is broken anyway
<Laney> hack it out and use the email interface
 * ScottK has never used anything but the email interface.
<hanska> uhm, will do that tomorrow
<hanska> too late to think :)
<jpds> hanska: Just don't use the --lp flag for now.
<hanska> jpds: I can't install it, I would need to get the .dsc, hack python-launchpad-bugs dependency out, rebuild the package and dpkg -i it.
<jpds> Laney: It autodetects but if the user wants they can specify -s to force it.
<jpds> hanska: Oh you're on Debian, Isee.
<hanska> jpds: and that's too much work (even though rather easy) to do at ~00.20 here ;)
<Laney> hanska: I'll just give you the script if you want
<ScottK> hanska: Or just grab the source package and use the script from there.  It's just python script.  Doesn't actually need a lot of installing.
<hanska> Laney: not tonight, really :)
<Laney> right
<hanska> scottK, good catch, just didn't know the package, so... :)
<jpds> (Actually he'd need lpbugs cos the script looks up the package's bug list for existing reports.)
<ScottK> hanska: Just in case I don't get the chance later ...  Thanks for showing up and worrying about a downstream distro.
<hanska> scottK, np, Debian's social contract says #4 says "our priorities are users and free software"
<hanska> scottK: so, effectively, I'm doing that just for end users. Be them Debian, Ubuntu, Sidux, Mepis, ${other Debian "downstream" distribution}
<hanska> ;)
<ScottK> hanska: Understand (I'm a DM and in NM, so I signed up for that too).  I appreciate the broad view.  Not everyone manages it.
<hanska> ScottK: I'm in DM and NM too, and when we became DMs, we had to sign them, you know :)
<hanska> s/them/DFSG, DMUP, Social Contract, $other_foundation_document/
<hanska> ./requestsync clamtk jaunty -k1392b174 -s
<hanska> The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (4.07-1). Aborting.
<hanska> uhm, lol
<hanska> so DDPO should be updated :/
<ScottK> Actually now that I look at your package list, I recall we've chatted, via BTS at least, before about clamtk.
<hanska> ScottK: it could be, yes, your name isn't new to me, at all
<bddebian> Uh oh :)
<hanska> barry ?!
<hanska> :)
<bddebian> Aye, Ubuntu let me in long before Debian did :)
<crimsun> it's a gathering of Debian folks!
<hanska> ahah
<bddebian> Now I've abandoned poor Ubuntu :(
<hanska> lol, you went to the origins :P
<bddebian> Not intentionaly mind you, I just try to do it through Debian now since my Ubuntu lappy died :(
<bddebian> Heya crimsun :)
<hanska> ./requestsync gnome-rdp jaunty -k1392b174 -s -d experimental
<hanska> The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (0.2.3-1). Aborting.
<hanska> uhm.
<hanska> DDPO must have some serious flaws then
<ScottK> Looks like it's running at least a week late.
<hanska> uh oh, nice one
<hanska> ImportError: No module named launchpadbugs.connector
<hanska> ok, seems like it's not that easy, after all
<hanska> I'll try to get python-lp-bugs on my system tomorrow
<hanska> goodnight everybody!
<ScottK> Well they've 'improved' it since I last looked at the source I guess.
<ScottK> Good night.
<jpds> hanska: Yeah, that's the existing reports check. Night!
<jpds> ScottK: I do my best ;-)
<ScottK> jpds: It might be nice to not fail if that's missing, just skip the check.
<crimsun> eek, we really need sid's maxima.
<crimsun> sigh, time to roll new patches
<jpds> ScottK: True, and implemented.
<ScottK> jpds: Thanks.
<RainCT> Is it normal for cowbuilder to say "-> Invoking pbuilder"?
<crimsun> RainCT: considering it's a wrapper, yes
#ubuntu-motu 2009-01-02
<RainCT> crimsun: a wrapper arround what?
<RainCT> (s/rr/r)
<crimsun> RainCT: around pbuilder
<crimsun> d'oh
<apachelogger> jdong: hey. can you think of a reason we wouldn't want to have protocol encryption in ktorrent active by default?
<lidaobing> help review ibus-table: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ibus-table, thanks
<hanska> hello *
<iulian> Hey hanska.
<hanska> hi iulian
<hanska> sebner: \o
<sebner> hanska: ahoi
<slytherin> StevenK: around? need to sync jbossas4. :-D
<StevenK> slytherin: And have you filed a bug? :-)
<slytherin> StevenK: yes. bug 312778
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312778 in jbossas4 "Please sync jbossas4 4.2.3.GA-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312778
<Laney> Yay! The silly crash in glom has been fixed
<Laney> Today is The Day
 * directhex declares openjdk to be doom
<jpds> Adri2000: Crazy mass bug reporting on requestsync - fixed.
<Laney> jpds: My hero!
<jpds> (I think - putting sleep()s appears to fix it).
<Laney> haha
<Laney> s/fix/bodged around/ :P
<directhex> bodger the badger?
 * Laney eats some mashed potato
<directhex> openjdk appears to be a twisty mess when it comes to licensing
<slytherin> directhex: why?
<Adri2000> jpds: great. I hope it will workaround the problem for now, but if LP decides to become 1 or 2 seconds slower, it will fail again :/ afaiu python-launchpad-bugs uses only http while python-launchpadlib uses the new LP api; so shouldn't using the latter fix this kind of problem?
<directhex> slytherin, horrible things like "public domain" with gpl2 boilerplate, etc
 * RainCT notes that pbuilder-dist.new now supports cowbuilder
<slytherin> directhex: is that bad thing really?
<isle85> Hi, is there a special category for a genealogy program. I've just built my first package, and would like it to appear in Applications - Genealogy. I didn't see such category. Is it possible to the debian/myappli.desktop to write : Categories=Application;Genealogy ?
<slytherin> isle85: how about science? But I am not sure if that has separate menu.
<directhex> a few licensing glitches here & there, too
<maxb> isle85: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/ defines the categories
<directhex> e.g. some non-sun files under GPL2 without classpath exception, which sun then relicense with classpath exception
<isle85> slytherin: yeap, but "science" doesn't see the appropriate place.
<directhex> isle85, "magic"!
<isle85> directhex: :-)
<directhex> slytherin, correct me if i'm wrong, but sun can't put a classpath exception on a file they don't hold the copyright to, and which was published under gpl2 with no exception, can they?
<hanska> directhex: you here? :)
<slytherin> directhex: I believe you are right
<directhex> hanska, always. why are YOU here, you like your debian WITHOUT bugs!
<hanska> directhex: eheh :P
<directhex> slytherin, frankly i don't care, i just want a well-formed debian/copyright. but i stand by my "openjdk appears to be a twisty mess when it comes to licensing" ;)
<jpds> Adri2000: Possibly, but I haven't done any work on lplib.
<shodges> hello all, I need a bit of help uploading to my PPA for the first time...
<shodges> I followed the instructions given here: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA, using the dput tool
<shodges> The tool seemed to finish successfully, but I'm not seeing anything in the PPA web UI, and I haven't received any email either
<shodges> This is the output of my dput operation: http://paste.ubuntu.com/98311/
<Adri2000> shodges: PPA is a launchpad thing, so #launchpad is more appropriate for your question
<shodges> ok thanks Adri2000
<jpds> RainCT: Damn, I just uploaded u-d-t and I just noticed your push.
 * jpds fixes.
<RainCT> jpds: pbuilder-dist.new isn't installed anyway
<thekorn> jpds, re this requestsync bug, I don't think time.sleep() fixes in requestsync fixes the problem, but forcing using the stable server instead of edge seems to be a good idea
<jpds> RainCT: I meant the changelog.
<jpds> thekorn: It only files one bug for me now.
<thekorn> jpds, ok, but my feeling is that launchpad is a bit faster today, which might also solve this issue
<jpds> thekorn: If the problem comes back, someone can reopen the bug.
<thekorn> jpds, but again, you should think about switching to python-launchpadlib ;)
<jpds> thekorn: That is planned ;-)
<thekorn> jpds, super, if noone takes it I can have a look at it over the weekend
<thekorn> should not be that hard
<jpds> thekorn: There is an experimental branch for it on my code page, but it's month's old.
<Alexia_Death> anybody up for helping out a newbie in debian packaging?
<jpds> months*
<thekorn> jpds, ok, cool, feel free to ping me when you need some help with launchpadlib
<Alexia_Death> I'm remaking the Xorg core packages with dbus support. that part is easy, rules needs an extra build flag. But I also need to install the dbus policy rules file and I dont have clue where that should go or how.
<Alexia_Death> so any tips welcome:)
<incorrect> backporting libtool from intrepid to hardy is a.) a bad idea,   b.) a good idea,   c.)  I am on drugs?
<jpds> thekorn: Would you happen to know a lplib function which will tell me if a person is a member of a team?
<thekorn> jpds, no, I don't think there is an API method for this, but how about checking if a person is in yourteam.members?
<thekorn> jpds, hmm, does not seem to work, http://paste.ubuntu.com/98333/   loks like a bug (missing feature) in launchpadlib to me
<jpds> thekorn: I'll that it here.
<jpds> "TypeError: argument of type 'Entry' is not iterable" - hmm.
<thekorn> jpds, created bug 313233 in launchpadlib
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 313233 in launchpadlib "add __contains__ to collections" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313233
<jpds> thekorn: Oh, thanks.
<Laney> excuse me for cross-posting from debian-mentors, but...
<Laney> What's the correct way to depend on ${source:Upstream-Version}? "=" obviously doesn't work
<Laney> sebner: *cough*
<thekorn> jpds, https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ngircd/+bug/309872  << first sync request created using requestsync and launchpadlib ;)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 309872 in ubuntu-tweak "Adding 2nd User after installing Ubuntu-tweak removes all Desktop menus & icons" [Undecided,New]
<slytherin> StevenK: thanks for jbossas4 sync. Do you time to any other syncs?
<incorrect> how long does it take to compile libtool
<incorrect> days? weeks? months?
<geser> do you mean the pure build time or the time for adding to the build queue to the result?
<incorrect> oh nevermind it just died
<slytherin> geser: just FYI ... jboss is finally built. :-)
<incorrect> i am trying to backport libtool
<geser> incorrect: the buildds take between 20 min and 1 h 40 min (depending on the arch)
<incorrect> thanks geser
<geser> slytherin: nice job. Did it include some patching or just syncing?
<incorrect> hopefully i can get openldap 2.4.11 backported to hardy
<slytherin> geser: this time it was just sync
<incorrect> i don't know if anyone feels this way, but i would like to run an LTS version and get some of the latest server apps, such as openldap, apache samba
<incorrect> i wonder how many support packages i will have to backport to get libtool to compile
<Laney> incorrect: That kind of runs counter to the LTSness doesn't it?
<incorrect> Laney, yes and no
<incorrect> Laney, i want the base for stable
<incorrect> bit like freebsd, you get the core stable, then apps are separated out
<incorrect> if i deploy a large server farm,  I want all the core update goodness for 5 years, but i also want to get some bang up to date services
<incorrect> for example openldap 2.4.9 still has bugs in its multimaster replication,  so i would want to upgrade this
<rjune> incorrect, so you'll have to run your own update server
<incorrect> rjune, fine by me if, choice of not working
<incorrect> or having to do my own updates
<rjune> incorrect, basically, you start with LTS, then set up your own repository and rebuild anything you want and insert into that repo
<rjune> it's not what you want, but it's the only way to get that same effect.
<incorrect> rjune, i know that, i was just suggesting that it would be nice if..
<rjune> Ahh.
<incorrect> i just wondered if others felt like me
<rjune> I'm sure you can find somebody willing to do it on a contract basis
<incorrect> why do i need to pay someone to do it?
<incorrect> i am perfectly able to backport myself
<rjune> you could always do it yourself
<incorrect> years of gentoo
<rjune> I'm so sorry.
<incorrect> lol
<rjune> still, you get the idea.
<incorrect> i've been doing this for ages,  i just seem to be the only one who doesn't want to upgrade their server farm every 6 months when all they want is a couple of features
<rjune> most people find the pain of update less than the pain of rebuild
<rjune> if you start a repo doing backports, then make it public, you  may get some interest.
<incorrect> depends if the update introduces a problem on your production systems
<rjune> then again, you may not.
<incorrect> if you only update one package, this negates the problem
<rjune> well, it minimizes it.
<incorrect> you can simply role back you one package
<incorrect> harder to role back the entire os
<rjune> true dat
<incorrect> well i am off for beer
<CarlFK> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-poppler comes from https://edge.launchpad.net/poppler-python
<CarlFK> I reported a bug and submitted a patch - how do I get that into ibex?
<coppro> REVU day! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metakit
<luckyone> hello MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE!
<luckyone> I have two quick questions, then I will leave you alone
<luckyone> 1) does the ati proprietary driver make it into the repos with every monthly release?
<luckyone> 2) when will ekiga 3.0 be available in the repos?
<superm1> hi luckyone: at least regarding the ati driver, it's put into the development release on a regular basis.  you'll get equivalent packages (starting with intrepid and later) if you run --buildpkg Ubuntu on their .run file
<crimsun> 1) depends if someone has done the work for it and whether Feature Freeze has passed
<crimsun> 2) ekiga 3.0.1 has already been merged into jaunty
<luckyone> crimsun: will it make it into Intrepid?
<superm1> so in the event that you are running intrepid and say want the 8-12 release, you can grab their installer and run it with that flag i just said.  it's not likely that it will be backported to intrepid though
<luckyone> I really should do my part and pick a package to maintain
<coppro> :( REVU is just as hard to get on REVU days as otherwise
<crimsun> it will not make it into intrepid period. intrepid is a frozen and released version.
<luckyone> ahhh
<coppro> it might get backported
<crimsun> there is some low probability that it will make it into intrepid-backports, but that's a fairly low one.
<luckyone> yeah, that is what I mean, will it be backported
<nhandler> coppro: Don't forget, REVU day is still going on. It goes on until it is Saturday in all time zones
<crimsun> luckyone: if you manage all the prerequisite work for it to be backported, there will be a slightly higher probability
<coppro> yes, exactly
<luckyone> so, Jaunty will have ati 8.12?
<superm1> luckyone, jaunty already does have it
<superm1> luckyone, as i said the development release gets them on a more regular basis
<luckyone> superm1: but will that be the last driver version taken?
<superm1> luckyone, that depends on what features are in the newer version and if it's a worthwhile upgrade to put into jaunty
<luckyone> gotcha
<superm1> luckyone, at this point i know there are some problems with 8-12 in jaunty, so likely a newer drop will be needed
<luckyone> I am crossing my fingers they are going to release the GPU offloading for video playback of additional codecs like H.264, etc
<luckyone> not just mpeg-2
<coppro> theora pls
<luckyone> x.264 :x
<luckyone> is there ever a 'Masters in training' course?
<luckyone> I feel like I should help out
<luckyone> I want to be confident that my contribution would actually help though (that my packages are 1, needed, 2 built correctly...)
<coppro> put them on revu
<coppro> needed isn't as important as built correctly
<luckyone> hehe
<coppro> (check for a needs-packaging bug first)
<CarlFK> I am trying to build a PPA from a package that I have a patch for.  but the current package is confusing: dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/python-poppler/python-poppler_0.8.1-1.dsc
<CarlFK>  tar xvf python-poppler_0.8.1.orig.tar.gz makes pypoppler-0.8.1/ but python-poppler_0.8.1-1.diff.gz makes python-poppler-0.8.1
<CarlFK> jaunty is the first place this package apears.  should I file a bug ?
<Laney> no
<Laney> just use patch -p1
<Laney> or use dget -x/dpkg-source -x
<crimsun> it's not worth a bug. the diff.gz is not required to retain the upstream's root-extracted directory name.
<CarlFK> thaks
<CarlFK> er.. thanks.  dget -x isn't extracting... is is because: gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found Validation FAILED!!
<Laney> dget -xu then
<Laney> (or get the key)
<CarlFK> thanks again
<Laney> Is it a good idea to split translations and manuals (omf format) out into an arch-indep package? lintian is whining
<Laney> Or just the manual?
<Laney> I think I'll just split the manual out for now
<Laney> sebner: you agree?
<Laney> murrayc_: Hey! glom is almost ready to go (again :)
<murrayc_> Laney: Thanks. I notice that the examples/templates still aren't found, but maybe I will figure out why,
<Laney> murrayc_: It's alright, I've got it
<murrayc_> Oh, cool.
<murrayc_> Laney: What was the problem?
<Laney> I have to override the default directory
<murrayc_> How?
<Laney> oh no, I don't think I do actually
<Laney> there was a silly rule left over in the rules file which deleted them for some reason
<Laney> I killed that and now they come up
<murrayc_> Oh, great.
<murrayc_> Thanks.
<Laney> (small thing that lintian picked up: You don't need encoding in the desktop file any more, they apparently have to be UTF-8 now)
<Laney> just trying to make a glom-doc package, then if that works I'll upload the diff for real
<Laney> murrayc_: Oh, do you know if there's a way to not build the examples with goocanvasmm? I tried --disable-examples but it's no go
<murrayc_> Laney: I'd accept a patch to add that option, but I generally don't bother with it myself.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-01-03
<Laney> OK, maybe I'll do that. The reason I need it is because we want to install the examples on Debian but not have them built
<directhex> Laney, check out my epic new debian/copyright for ikvm
<Laney> directhex: svn?
<murrayc_> Laney: I can't find anything saying that the encoding line is deprecated.
<murrayc_> Laney: Nothing offica
<murrayc_> Laney: Nothing official, I mean.
<Laney> murrayc_: let me see, it was just lintian that told me
<Laney> murrayc_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/98635/
<murrayc_> Laney: It's OK. I found it: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/1.0/apc.html
<Laney> that's the one
<murrayc_> Laney: It was just that that standard didn't mention the deprecation elsewhere when mentioning the key.
<directhex> Laney, of course svn!
<Laney> directhex: I like the "Not bloody stated" license - think I'll start using that
<directhex> Laney, i've mailed the original debianizer to ask him what he actually wanted to use
<directhex> Laney, personally i'm all for WTFPL
<Laney> tell him I won't fix his podsleuth bug if he doesn't reply
<Laney> and then I'll set fire to his iPod
<directhex> ehm... it's the same guy?
<Laney> john goerzen right?
<directhex> why, yes!
<directhex> what a small world
<Laney> leverage!
<directhex> hm. do i want to play gears of war, with its chainsaw bayonets, or rock band, with its far more deadly six-stringed axe play?
<crimsun> geez, 200 MB of build-dependencies just to generate a debdiff.
<crimsun> if it weren't for RAOF's bug, i wouldn't even have to touch texmacs!
<NCommander> hey directhex
<directhex> hm?
<The_Kid123> Hi all, I'm looking to somehow get involved in helping with Ubuntu development. I've used ubuntu heavily since 7.10, but I intermittently used snce 6.06. I don't really know where specificly I'd like to help, but I'm interested in OS components from the command-line down, be it init scripting, installers, or wherever I could be of help. I'm willing to learn what I don't yet know. I'll start being on here more, so hopefully the appropriate person will 
<bobbo> The_Kid123: hey :)
<bobbo> The_Kid123: the best place to start is by reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<The_Kid123> alright, thanks
<bobbo> The_Kid123: also, when you want to get started on some real bugfixing, we have a list of easy to fix bugs for new contributors @ https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<The_Kid123> great, let me say that i'll be glad to be part of a ubuntu team
<bobbo> we'll be glad to have you, we are always looking out for new contributors
<The_Kid123> if I check a package, would I want to start looking for fixes in the deloper's most recent version, or stick with the version ubuntu uses?
<bobbo> The_Kid123: you want to be looking at the latest version of the package
<bobbo> the easiest way is to replace the deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list with the current development version
<bobbo> then you can apt-get source <packagename> to get the packages source
<The_Kid123> alright
<The_Kid123> thanks
<The_Kid123> peace, everyone, esp u bobbo, I'm retiring
<nhandler> bobbo: They can also use the pull-lp-source script from ubuntu-dev-tools
<bobbo> nhandler: oh, didn't know that existed
 * bobbo goes to look
<nhandler> There is also a pull-debian-source script
<lidaobing> help review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=fqterm
<lidaobing> thanks
<lidaobing> help review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ibus-table, thanks
<lidaobing> I got an error when archive: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/?archive=3889, error infomation in http://paste.ubuntu.com/98827/
<wikz> Hi, I uploaded my package with the ppa versioning and changelog which I shouldn't have. How do I rectify it ?
<Hobbsee> to where?
<wikz> revu
<Hobbsee> just upload another one, and it'll overwrite it
<Hobbsee> iirc
<wikz> Hobbsee: cool thanks
<rexbron> If any motu's have a spare moment to review my package I would greatly appreciate it. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libffado
<mib_f6bol3ak> hi
<shankhs> hi
<tuxmaniac> it would be great to see someone review gresistor for Jaunty again. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gresistor
<tuxmaniac> thanks in advance
<hanska> woot, my first sync request :)
<shankhs> hi
<tacone> i am getting this on a pdebuild: Unmet build dependencies: cdbs (>= 0.4.49)
<tacone> my pbuilder is an intrepid one, with all repos enabled (cdbs is in the main, btw)
<tacone> any help ?
<maxb> tacone: How odd. Perhaps if you paste your entire build session on a pastebin, someone might spot something?
<vorian> morning
<Laney> howdy vorian
<vorian> hi Laney, how's things?
<Laney> not bad, just updating the copyright file for glom (fun for me!), yourself?
<vorian> just starting the day :)
<tacone> maxb: oddly, i had to install cdbs on my host system. after that, pbuilder worked.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hiya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<bddebian> iulian: I lost my connection, can you shoot me the git-core URL again?
<iulian> bddebian: Aye, http://alioth.debian.org/~iulian-guest/git-cola_1.3.4.4-1.dsc
<bddebian> Thx
<iulian> Thank you.
 * iulian -> lunch
<Laney> sebner: ping?
<StevenK> Ah ha. I can't look up thc.emanuele-gentili.com because the domain name has expired.
 * Laney squats it
<StevenK> It isn't mine, it's emgent's
 * Laney nods
 * Laney knows who to extort
<StevenK> Hehe
<Laney>    Expiration Date: 01-dec-2008
<StevenK> Oh, so he's had a month
<bddebian> iulian: Uploaded
<iulian> bddebian: Thanks again.
<bddebian> No, thank YOU :)
<bddebian> Now I'm off to my daughters gymnastics, later folks
<iulian> Have fun.
<quadrispro> hi bobbo!
<quadrispro> anyone on bug #311114 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311114 in ikiwiki "Please merge ikiwiki 3.00 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311114
<iulian> quadrispro: You obviously forgot to mention the bug number in the changelog.
<quadrispro> iulian: done
<james_w> quadrispro: has the issue been forwarded to Debian?
<quadrispro> no, because that issue is due to Ubuntu policy
<quadrispro> and there's this bug too -> bug #313477
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 313477 in cmus "Please merge cmus 2.2.0-3 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313477
<CarlFK> I am trying to add a patch to a package that has no patches.  can I use debhelper.mk / simple-patchsys.mk if the existing debian/rules doesn't?
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/104893/   debian/rules
<CarlFK> debian/rules:40: *** target file `clean' has both : and :: entries.  Stop.
<jorgenpt> Is it OK to submit others' debian packages to REVU? What's the equivilant to REVU for sid?
<Laney> jorgenpt: mentors.debian.net
<Laney> debian-mentors mailing list/irc chan
<jorgenpt> And what about the former question?
<Laney> probably "it depends"
<Laney> why do you want to?
<jorgenpt> Because I want the software to appear in Ubuntu
<iulian> New packages which are uploaded to Debian will be automatically copied to Ubuntu.
<jorgenpt> And the guy who made it hasn't got any big intentions to submit it to neither a debian mentor nor REVU.
<Laney> you should probably ask if he minds
<james_w> CarlFK: you can't mix CDBS and non-CDBS in debian/rules
<CarlFK> james_w: that's what I figured.  thanks
<Laney> CarlFK: Quilt provides quilt.make which you can use very easily though
<CarlFK> Laney: will it be any use if there is only one patch?
<Laney> you should use a patchsys anyway
<CarlFK> quilt is a patchsys?
<Laney> yes
<CarlFK> Laney: have a howto url?
<CarlFK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Quilt
<Laney> huh
<Laney> that's not a very good howto
<Laney> http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html
<lfaraone> Hi, how do I get ubuntu's dch to behave exactly like the debian version? (no "intrepid", no "0.1-1ubuntu1", etc)
<Laney> lfaraone: You'll want to remove the Ubuntu modifications to debchange in the devscripts package
<lfaraone> Laney: there isn't simply a --config-option? :(
<Laney> I don't think so :(
 * lfaraone is developing packages for Debian on Ubuntu, and finds it difficult.
<lfaraone> (PbuilderHowTo doesn't explain how to use a different OS in chroot,e tc)
 * coppro pokes the MOTUs with the REVU button
<Laney> pbuilder-dist makes having sid chroots easy
<lfaraone> Laney: ah...
<Laney> ln -s /path/to/pbuilder-dist pbuilder-sid
<Laney> pbuilder-sid create; pbuilder-sid build foo.dsc
<Laney> easy!
<ScottK> lfaraone: Speaking for myself, someone adding a flag to get Debian standard operations to dch would be quite welcome.
<CarlFK> Laney: I messed up by creating  ~.quiltrc in my package dir (vim ~.quiltrc opps) - so now I have  .pc/ in my package dir.  I moved .quiltrc to ~ ( cat /home/carl/.quiltrc; export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches) what do I do with .pc ?
<Laney> delete it
<lfaraone> ScottK: what's devscripts written in again? /me might scratch that itch
<ScottK> lfaraone: I don't recall what debchange is written in.  It might be python.  Not all the scripts are in the same languate.  I know some are shell, python, and perl.
<lfaraone> If it's python, I'll put it on my TODO list.
<CarlFK> Laney: current rules has "build-stamp: configure-stamp" - do I replace configure-stamp with  $(QUILT_STAMPFN) ?
<Laney> CarlFK: No, add it
<Laney> CarlFK: It's probably better to put it before configure: though
<Laney> s/before/after.
<Laney> /
<blueyed> lfaraone: dch is perl
<CarlFK> this? build-stamp: $(QUILT_STAMPFN) configure-stamp
<CarlFK> er, your before/afger lost me ... :)
<CarlFK> this: build-stamp: configure-stamp $(QUILT_STAMPFN)
<Laney> I mean
<Laney> leave build-stamp how it is
<Laney> and make configure-stamp depend on $(QUILT_STAMPFN_
<CarlFK> ah...
<Laney> erm, not configure-stamp, configure
<Laney> I can do things but not tell people about them...
<CarlFK> this? configure: $(QUILT_STAMPFN)
<Laney> yep
<CarlFK> yay.
<Laney> then it'll apply the patches before configuring
<CarlFK> I used to know how to make makefiles...
<lfaraone> doko__: oh, *cries*.
<Laney> look in quilt.make, it's quite easy to understand
<lfaraone> doko__: oops, wrong nick.
<lfaraone> blueyed: bah, I'll have to rewrite it in python now :)
<CarlFK> but that's been well over 5 years.  I know the point, but forget the syntax
<CarlFK> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA says "For example: you're creating an experimental version of the myapp_1.0-1 package. Your PPA package would be named myapp_1.0-2~ppa1. "
<CarlFK> so I bump the -1 to -2, and add ~ppa1?
<Adri2000> lfaraone: anyway, you should probably file a bug so that your idea is not forgotten, and if you don't fix it, someone else will eventually do :)
<CarlFK> the bump seems odd
<Laney> yeah don't do that
<Laney> oh, I see
<Laney> "If you're creating an alternative version of a package already available in Ubuntu's repositories"
<nhandler> The ~ iirc is lower than the -2
<Laney> it depends what you're doing
<nhandler> So if a 1.0-2 is released in Ubuntu, it will replace your version
<Laney> Why don't they use +?
<CarlFK> applying a patch
<Laney> 1.0-1+ppa1
<nhandler> Laney: Because that isn't always accurate
<nhandler> Most of the time, you are testing out a package before it is uploaded to Ubuntu
<Laney> that's not the case I'm talking about
<nhandler> As a result, it will already have a bumped version. You just need the ~ppa1 so that it gets replaced when uploaded in Ubuntu
<Laney> I'm talking about the case the lp wiki discusses
<Laney> when you're trying to patch a Ubuntu version
<nhandler> when you patch a bug in an Ubuntu version, you still bump the version
<nhandler> Although the wiki isn't mentioning the -Xubuntuy part in the version
<Laney> I don't see why
<nhandler> Laney: Pretty much, you take what ever version the package would have if it were to be uploaded to Ubuntu right then and there. You then add ~ppa1
<Laney> But this is for some random personal patch that isn't intended for Ubuntu
<Laney> 1.0-1+ppa1 says "I've taken 1.0-1 and added something to it"
<nhandler> Well, then it really doesn't matter then what he does
<nhandler> He could completely change the version and it wouldn't matter
<Laney> you still want to retain a sane upgrade path
<nhandler> Laney: Well, all I am saying is that it is up to him for what the version should be. Depending on the patch, he might not want an X.Y-Z~ppa1, because then X.Y-Z would replace it. There are ways to make his version greater than X.Y-Z so that if that version makes it into the repositories, his version will have a higher version number, so it won't be replaced. It all depends on what the patch does.
<Laney> of course. I was just proposing an almost-equivalent-but-in-my-opnion-clearer alternative
<nhandler> Ok, for me, the +ppa1 isn't any clearer than ~ppa1. But in the end, it is the package creator's decision
<CarlFK> I am assuming my patch will be applied to the next version ubuntu releases
<nhandler> CarlFK: Then I would use (version of next ubuntu release)~ppa1. That way, the next ubuntu release will replace your pacakge
<Laney> yep, this is the right use-case for that
<CarlFK> current is https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/python-poppler/0.8.1-1   so I am going with 0.8.1-2~ppa1
<Laney> no, -1ubuntu1
<Laney> unless you're going for an update in Debian
<nhandler> Laney: If we have -1 in Ubuntu, it means we synced the package
<Laney> yes, but we won't do if his patch gets in
<Laney> then it'll be 1ubuntu1
<nhandler> He should submit the patch to Debian then
<lfaraone> Adri2000: care to "confirm" https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devscripts/+bug/313508 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 313508 in devscripts "dch should have an option to disable Ubuntu modifications" [Undecided,New]
<nhandler> We don't want to create a delta unless it is really needed
<CarlFK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-poppler/+bug/312462  should I add debian to the "Also affects distribution" ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 312462 in web2conf "document_new_from_data() arg1 must be without null bytes" [Medium,In progress]
<CarlFK> web2conf is the code I was working on that is being blocked by the bug in pythyon-poppler
<nhandler> Did you send your patch to python-poppler already?
<CarlFK> yes
<Laney> CarlFK: An upstream review would be nice
<nhandler> And did they acknowledge it?
<CarlFK> sort of: ali: CarlFK: it looks quite reasonable, but gmt is mostly maintaining that package, so I should check with him first
<jorgenpt> So is it still possible to submit for Jaunty?
<nhandler> jorgenpt: Yes
<nhandler> CarlFK: If you do submit the patch to Debian, add a bug watch to the LP bug. But be sure to mention in the Debian bug that you also sent the patch upstream
<Laney> (bts forwarded bugnumber url)
<CarlFK> nhandler: im guessing as long as it gets fixed in trunk soon, the debian stuff isn't worth the effort
<lfaraone> How do I run a diff between https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devscripts/2.10.26ubuntu4 and https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devscripts/2.10.26ubuntu3 ?
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/104923/ W: python-poppler source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.8.1-2~ppa1
<CarlFK> and W: python-poppler source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff poppler.defs
<CarlFK> should I care about those?
<nhandler> CarlFK: The second one you should fix
<nhandler> Did you modify a file in the source?
<nhandler> And quick question, w32codecs is only available from the medibuntu repositories, correct?
<CarlFK> nhandler: yeah, followed http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html
<CarlFK> I was wondering about that...
<nhandler> So you used a quilt patch to modify poppler.defs?
<CarlFK> quilt edit
<CarlFK> guessing I want to do quilt pop
<nhandler> Did you do a quilt new first?
<CarlFK> Patch poppler.defs.diff is not applied - guessing I want to start over :)
<CarlFK> yes
<nhandler> Yeah, you probably didn't create the patch correct.
<CarlFK> redoing it from scratch will probalby be easier than trying to fix my mess
<nhandler> CarlFK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<nhandler> They have a section on quilt there
<nhandler> But could someone just confirm that w32codecs is only in the medibuntu repo?
<CarlFK> nhandler: does this count: http://www.debian-multimedia.org/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/package/w32codecs.php
<nhandler> CarlFK: I was just trying to verify that the package is not in the official Ubuntu repositories. debian-multimedia isn't an official Debian repository, so that is fine
<CarlFK> nhandler: mplayer has /usr/share/doc/mplayer/examples/install-w32codecs.sh.gz
<nhandler> CarlFK: That is ok. I was just reviewing a package that had a Depends on w32codecs. But since that isn't a package in the official repositories, it needs to be changed
<CarlFK> seems correct
<Adri2000> lfaraone: done
<nhandler> And did the .desktop file policy change? I thought that icons in /usr/share/pixmaps were not meant to include a path or extension, and only have the filename
<Laney> the icons themselves do, but the desktopfile doesn't give the extension
<nhandler> Let me restate that last comment, should the .desktop file say "Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/Icon.png" or just "Icon=Icon"? There is a /usr/share/Icon.png file
<Laney> the latter
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/104930/  everything look ok?
<Laney> nhandler: Does desktop-file-validate not complain?
<nhandler> Right, it isn't complaining. I thought it used to. Did it get changed?
 * Laney shrugs
<nhandler> Well, time to look at the source
<jorgenpt> I posted a new and updated package to REVU for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bpython
<CarlFK> is there a lag between uploading to ppa  ( http://dpaste.com/104932/ ) and it showing up on https://edge.launchpad.net/~carl-personnelware/+archive
<nhandler> CarlFK: That is normal
<nhandler> It needs to build
<nhandler> And be accepted
<nhandler> Laney: In the NEWS file, it says "make the extension check for Icon key a warning instead of an error for now
<nhandler> Time to figure out why I am not getting a warning
<CarlFK> what is "be accepted" ? (does a human have to do something?)
<nhandler> CarlFK: No. It is automated. You'll get an email. Then it will start building
<lfaraone> Adri2000: thanks
<lfaraone> Now if I only had a clue how to get a diff between two package versions in LP that I cannot fidn anywhere.
<nhandler> lfaraone: Are they two subsequent versions?
<nhandler> And I found out why I am not getting a warning about the extension. It doesn't show that warning if an absolute path is used. Now to figure out why I am not getting a warning/error about an absolute path for an icon in /usr/share/pixmaps
<lfaraone> nhandler: yes
<nhandler> Yes what?
<vorian> yes sir!
<nhandler> :D
<lfaraone> nhandler: yes, they are subsiquent versions.
<nhandler> lfaraone: You will want to download the two source packages and then use debdiff
<james_w> "bzr diff -rpackage:2.10.26ubuntu3..package:2.10.26ubuntu4 http://package-import.ubuntu.com/d/devscripts/jaunty" would also work
<jorgenpt> james_w: Oh, hey, you're the one that's a subscriber on my bpython package? :-p
<nhandler> james_w: Would you happen to have any idea why desktop-file-validate does not complain about using an absolute path for an icon in /usr/share/pixmaps?
<james_w> nhandler: I thought that was a valid thing to do
<james_w> well, an absolute path at least, checking whether the absolute path is in /usr/share/pixmaps would be possible, but seems like overkill.
<nhandler> james_w: I thought you were only meant to use the Icon name, no extension or path if it was in /usr/share/pixmaps. I also thought desktop-file-validate used to complain about it
<james_w> jorgenpt: how does it compare to ipython?
<jorgenpt> It's similar, but I prefer bpython over ipython. It has neat stuff like argument inspection and inline syntax hilighting
<jorgenpt> (and saving history to file, posting to pastebin, and other random features)
<lfaraone> How do I tell debdiff to give me colored diffs?
<lfaraone> ScottK: ok, I've added that option, do you want a patch or simply a debdiff? (and should I submit to debian's BTS as well as LP?)
<lfaraone> ScottK: ("--debian")
<Adri2000> lfaraone: no, don't send that patch to debian, it's only useful to ubuntu
<lfaraone> Adri2000: debian however has ubuntu-stuff in it.
<Adri2000> in dch ?
<lfaraone> Adri2000: (debian's package has the "check if this is ubuntu or debian" subroutine)
<lfaraone> Adri2000: Yeah. I was amazed too.
<lfaraone> Adri2000: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/devscripts/devscripts_2.10.43.tar.gz and look in debchange.pl for "ubuntu"
<CarlFK> what is the distro spozed to be?  (I want it to be installed on intrepid)   E: python-poppler_0.8.1-2~ppa1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file intrepid
<lfaraone> CarlFK: what are you running?
<lfaraone> Adri2000: or better yet grep http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/devscripts/devscripts_2.10.43/changelog
<CarlFK> lfaraone: intrepid on the box I built on
<james_w> making it so you could use Ubuntu conventions on Debian might be useful
<james_w> then it could be forwarded as well, with just the default changed for Ubuntu
<lfaraone> james_w: ah...
<CarlFK> lfaraone: but the package isn't avaible until jaunty, so I dget it, patched, left distro=unstable built.  that was OK, but dput... got a reject letter: Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<lfaraone> james_w: now that I look, tehre arlready is that option, heh
<MaduserTr> Is there a Document where I can see the changes between Standards Version 3.7.3 and 3.8.0?
<nhandler> MaduserTr: Try http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2008/06/msg00001.html
<MaduserTr> nhandler: thanks
<DktrKranz> MaduserTr: alternatively, you could browse git repository (http://git.debian.org/?p=dbnpolicy/policy.git;a=shortlog) to see full changes
<nhandler> You're welcome MaduserTr
<MaduserTr> I try to pack wine-doors, but now I see this http://www.wine-doors.org/trac/browser/wine-doors/branches/0.2/COPYRIGHT
<MaduserTr> Thinks this is no real GPL2?
<tuxmaniac> it would be great to see someone review gresistor for Jaunty again. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gresistor
<Elbrus> MaduserTr: /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt
<MaduserTr> thanks
<MaduserTr> but which package is this?
<skorasaurus> hi, how should I request a package for jaunty to be updated ?
<Adri2000> skorasaurus: you mean, to a new upstream version?
<pochu> Laney: your current debdiff in u-u-s will need to go through binary NEW, but you probably don't want that...
<Adri2000> MaduserTr: debian-policy
<skorasaurus> Adri2000, yes.
<Adri2000> skorasaurus: file a bug (if there isn't one already) and tag it 'upgrade'
<pochu> Laney: the goocanvasmm one
<MaduserTr> MaduserTr: thanks
<MaduserTr> Adri2000: thanks
<skorasaurus> Adri2000, there already is :/
<Adri2000> skorasaurus: then do it yourself :)
<skorasaurus> i'm unclear on why the upstream dev in debian is hesitant to package it.... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=497897
<ubottu> Debian bug 497897 in jabref "jabref: please upgrade to Jabref-2.4" [Wishlist,Open]
<skorasaurus> jaunty, at least, already has the 3 packages available
<skorasaurus> so, why wouldn't debian, upstream ?
<skorasaurus> Adri2000, i'm learning how :p
<Adri2000> it's possible that the libraries have been packaged and uploaded to ubuntu, but not to debian
<blueyed> siretart: the cdrecord package from the ubuntu-burning PPA does not include a cdrecord binary?!
 * blueyed is having problems with erasing CDRWs using cdrkit/wodim.. :/
<skorasaurus> hi, should I build a package, using the developer's debian package, or directly from source ? (the package is not in the debian repository)
<NCommander> blueyed, does it have wodim?
<NCommander> the cdrecord command was changed awhile back
<maxb> skorasaurus: You mean the upstream already ships a debian/ directory in the source?
<skorasaurus> maxb, nope,
<skorasaurus> they have a debian package on the developer's website.
<skorasaurus> maxb, its not packaged within the debian repositories, its a .deb
<maxb> Well a .deb is a binary package so is not something you can use to build a package
<maxb> Does upstream provide a .dsc / .diff.gz ?
<skorasaurus> within the deb, is the control file, i see.
<skorasaurus> maxb, no.
<maxb> "control file" is a generic term that can refer to several different kinds of file. Which one precisely do you mean?
<CarlFK> skorasaurus: post the url of "on the developer's website."
<skorasaurus> CarlFK, http://gens.sourceforge.net/
<CarlFK> skorasaurus:  I see no .debs
<maxb> skorasaurus: I see a .deb, but it does not appear that the developers have published the means to make the .deb from source
<CarlFK> found one
<maxb> Since upstream hasn't published their source packaging, your choice is no choice at all!
<directhex> blueyed, cdrecord is non-free, so isn't included in the standard repo
<CarlFK> skorasaurus: ask the author to check in the debian/ dir to   http://gens.cvs.sourceforge.net/gens/
<directhex> oh, gens. it's a real bugger to build properly
<CarlFK> I am kinda surprised it isn't already there
<maxb> Is that necessarily a good idea? I thought there was a slight preference for upstream not to ship debian/ dirs
<CarlFK> well, 'someone' should have them
<blueyed> directhex: /me knows, but apparently cdrkit has broken cdrw-recording for me... :/
<CarlFK> if upstream is the only place they exist, i don't see any harm making them available
<ScottK> lfaraone: File a bug in LP and subscribe u-m-s.  I'd suggest something more like a --distro debian/--distro ubuntu flag so that it's just a question of which option is the default.
<lfaraone> ScottK: uh, turns out that there already is such an option, it's just undocumented :/
<lfaraone> ScottK: ("--distributor")
<ScottK> lfaraone: Interesting.
<lfaraone> ScottK: however it still will put "intrepid" into the dist bit
<ScottK> Sounds like some patching is in order then.
<maxb> lfaraone: Doesn't it default the dist to whatever was in the previous changelog entry?
<maxb> Certainly I've had no problems since I started aliasing dch to 'dch --distributor not-ubuntu'
<lfaraone> maxb: nope, it doesn't (afacit)
<serialorder> question: I have a package that I want to replace the pt.po file with pt_PT.po there is also a pt.gmo file. There is a quilt patch system. I am wondering what the best way to go replacing the file would be
#ubuntu-motu 2009-01-04
<RainCT> serialorder: Do you want to modify the file or just rename it?
<lfaraone> How would I add a man page to a package that uses CDBS?
<vorian> create a file in your debian dir called manpages, and put the path to the manpage in that file
<vorian> then, just place the manpage in the debian dir, or you can create a manpage dir
<lfaraone> vorian: ah, thanks.
<vorian> no problemo
<lfaraone> vorian: how should I adress AUTHORS, should it list the program authors or the manpage author? :)
<vorian> the authors section is for the application authors, then you can say you wrote it at the end
<lfaraone> vorian: under COPYING?
<vorian> na, hold on a second
<vorian> lfaraone: like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/99354/
<lfaraone> vorian: ah, OK.
<nhandler> I'm working on a personal package that is *NOT* for the Ubuntu/Debian repositories. Is it possible to have it install files in the user's home folder?
<coppro> yes. It's not recommended though, since there are multiple users. And you will need to do it with a script (to install to each user's home folder, run through each non-system user in a post-installation script to copy files from a central copy)
<coppro> and also copy into the skeleton home directory, probably
<nhandler> coppro: Is there any way to find what user is installing the package?
<coppro> no, since installations are run as root
<nhandler> coppro: That is what I thought.
<hyperair> hi how do i fix the lintian warning "debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink"?
<coppro> make the changelog no longer a symlink
<hyperair> coppro: but how do i do that? this part is not within my power is it?
<hyperair> debuild does the installing of the changlelog and copyright file into /usr/share/doc
<hyperair> if debuild chooses to make it a symlink, what can i do?
<coppro> hyperair: well, you are packaging it, right? so why is your changelog file a symlink? (btw, try running lintian with -I
<coppro> debuild shouldn't. If it does, you are doing it wrong
<hyperair> coppro: i think the reason is that codelite-plugins is depending on codelite
<hyperair> and since they both come from the same source package, codelite-plugin's changelog somehow got symlinked to codelite's
<coppro> could be
<coppro> seems like bad practice
<coppro> no MOTUs here by any chance?
<hyperair> gues not
<hyperair> ah. cdbs bug?
<ScottK> hyperair: It's a CDBS design feature in Ubuntu to keep the CD size down.
<hyperair> ScottK: then i shouldn't bother about that lintian warning right?
<ScottK> hyperair: You don't need to worry about it as it's not an actual problem, but something Ubuntu chooses to differently than Debian.
<ScottK> hyperair: Right.
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> thanks
<ScottK> No problem.
<coppro> shouldn't there be an override then?
<hyperair> if there should be, then shouldn't cdbs doing the overriding?
<ScottK> Not really, since it's almost universally something you see in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> I suppose one could, but I don't think people generally bother.
<hyperair> hmmm
<hyperair> how does one do lintian overrides?
<jmarsden> Where can I find out more about packaging CPAN modules?  Archive::Any to be specific... I can't seem to find an existing libarchive-any-perl package...
<ScottK-desktop> jmarsden: I'd look in the Debian Perl team's docs.  They are pretty thorough.  Also they are open to Ubuntu contributors, so you could package it for them and then sync it to Ubuntu.
<ScottK-desktop> That'd give you easy access to people who know about such things.
<jmarsden> OK, thanks.
<serialorder> question: I want to replace pt.po with pt_PT.po and get rid of pt.gmo and the package uses a quilt patchsystem. Should I delete pt.{po,gmo} and add pt_PT.po all in one diff file? Or is there another way to go about this?
<x1250> hi guys, could someone take a look to this dependency problem? gnome-subtitles is not installable: http://paste.ubuntu.com/99496/
<hyperair> hmm jaunty?
<x1250> hyperair, yes
<hyperair> figures. i heard that there's some refactoring of mono packages going on
<hyperair> wait until it's done, then that issue should be fixed
<x1250> ok, didn't know that, thanks
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> does anyone feel like revu'ing a package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<Paddy_EIRE> Hey guys I wonder if this is to be included in Jaunty's repositories http://divfixpp.sourceforge.net/
<Paddy_EIRE> If not I would not mind trying my hand at packaging it
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persei> I've compiled a prg and make it available on my ubuntu repository. I run Hardy, but is there a way to create archives available for Intrepid users ? the program compiled is a "standalone java" program, so a version of it can run on all platform as long as a user run java. Someone told me to change a line in the file "programxxx_i386.changes. is it true, and what do I have to change in it, before running debarchiver?
<pmjdebruijn> persei: for PPA you need to upload sources packages...
<persei> pmjdebruijn: I've placed the five files created in my incoming subdirectory. then run debbarchiver -so. I do not understand what files I could placed there. Sorry, but I'm newbie at this
<pmjdebruijn> huh?
<pmjdebruijn> persei: are you talking about PPA or not?
<persei> no, I was not aware of that.
<persei> I'm reading right now something about launchpadhelp
<pmjdebruijn> persei: for PPA you need to use dput
<persei> pmjdebruijn: yes,
<pmjdebruijn> persei: dput ppa blah_sources.changes
<pmjdebruijn> persei: the sources file needs to be signed
<persei> pmjdebruijn: maybe a stupid question : but using ppa, my package will be available in another repository , not mine ?
<pmjdebruijn> huh?
<pmjdebruijn> persei: ppa=personal package archive
<AdamDH> hey, here is part of my rule files, can any one tell me why my source is not extracted when I call configure? http://www.pastebin.ca/1299655
<AdamDH> configure calls apply-patch and that calls extract source so in order it should go extract source patch configure thats what I am trying to do any way
<fabrice_sp> AdamDH, how do you call configure? What command are you using?
<AdamDH> same simular way from buildso i have build: configure build-time-stamp etc
<fabrice_sp> if you call debian/rules configure
<fabrice_sp> does it works?
<ripps> Hi, I'm back, and I need some more help getting a package to compile in my PPA
<ripps> I'm trying to get Mayanna to build, but I think I'm missing a dependecy, but I'm not sure what. Can someone help me figure out?
<AdamDH> it runs configure but nothing above configiure so I get errors
<AdamDH> so it does not extract or patches the source
<ripps> https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eripps818/+archive/+build/824717/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.mayanna_svn60~ripps2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<fabrice_sp> AdamDH, and what about debian/rules apply-patch ?
<AdamDH> the apply-patch works when it gets called but nothing seems to call it, i tried it standalone
<AdamDH> noting seems to be calling anything else
<fabrice_sp> AdamDH, and if you rename it to something else?
<ripps> Hello?
<fabrice_sp> ripps, there are some strange messages: package architecture (i386) does not match system (amd64). Can you check it appears in a correct build
<AdamDH> it all works if I wack it all inside configure but not when its seperated out
<ripps> I have no idea why Launchpad would do that, but here's the amd64 build data, it failed as well:
<ripps> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20833784/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.mayanna_svn60~ripps2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ripps> I think some of the problems might be because there is no python-evolution package in intrepid. How do I get remedy this dependency?
<fabrice_sp> ripps, are you trying to backport a jaunty package?
<ripps> fabrice_sp: no, I'm just trying to compile mayanna from source in PPA
<fabrice_sp> ripps, so why are you speaking about python-evolution?
<fabrice_sp> AdamDH, maybe apply-patch is a reserved word. Even if you try with another one, it fails?
<ripps> fabrice_sp: python-evolution is listed as one of the dependecies of mayanna in it's BUILDING text file.
<ripps> That being said, I managed to build mayanna without it locally, but not on Launchpad.
<fabrice_sp> ripps, if you manage to build it locally, is it because you installed python-evolution?
<fabrice_sp> if it's the case, you should build it also in your ppa
<anakron> hi
<anakron> someone here use gnome-dictionary in Spanish, with a spanish dictionary server, and it works?
<ripps> favrice_sp: no, I don't have python-evolution installed, but I guess some other package that I might have installed might be making up for it, I just don't know what it is.
<anakron> Hi RainCT
<RainCT> hi anakron
<ripps> fabrice_sp: *
<fabrice_sp> ripps, you can have a look at run dependencies
<fabrice_sp> if you succeed in building a package locally
<fabrice_sp> (inside the deb package)
<ripps> fabrice_sp: I didn't build using deb package, that always failed. I just built it the manual "make install" method.
<fabrice_sp> ripps, did you try with python-gnome2-desktop ? It seems to include python-evolution
<ripps> fabrice_sp: I'm trying a new build, with some edit build-dependencies. I think I had python-gnome2-desktop before, but I'm trying again.
<fabrice_sp> ripps, ok
<ripps> Okay, after looking at the build logs, it looks like the problem is in python-gtk2-dev.
<ripps> fabrice_sp: I'm missing /usr/include/pygtk-2.0/pygobject.h
<fabrice_sp> ripps, you can check at packages.ubuntu.com. It gives me python-gobject-dev
<anakron> someone have ever use gnome-dictionary in  Spanish?
<ripps> fabrice_sp: Adding to build-depends, now starting rebuild.
<fabrice_sp> anakron, no, but if you explain me what to do, I can try
<anakron> or someone can test now gnome-dictionary with a spanish server looking for  aspanish word?
<anakron> the problem is that es.dict.org doesn't work
<anakron> and i want to patch it
<anakron> but i can't find any spanish dict server out there
<anakron> even in dict.org
<anakron> so, im looking for a spanish dict server to patch it and report it to upstream
<anakron> but it seems that noone works
<anakron> no one
<fabrice_sp> anakron, did you try with vocabulary.aioe.org ?
<anakron> yes
<anakron> and it doesn't work
<Laney> pochu: I don't really mind
<anakron> it contains in his dicts "spanish-english freedict dictionary "
<anakron> but it doen't translate even or give an spanish meaning
<anakron> fabrice
<fabrice_sp> anakron, yes. I was trying all the serves
<anakron> can you look for a spanish dict server?
<fabrice_sp> servers
<anakron> ;)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> they all time out ... :-(
<anakron> :S
<anakron> but vocabulary.aioe.org works with enlighs words
<anakron> english
<fabrice_sp> anyway, I checked with chico en www.dict.org, and the definition is not so good ;-)
<fabrice_sp> chico = Var. of Chica.
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> anakron, translations seems to work in www.dict.org
<anakron> yes
<fabrice_sp> so, why not using dict.org?
<anakron> let me see
<anakron> it doesn't work for me
<anakron> mmm
<anakron> i want an spanish server that no need to write the word in english to get his translations
<anakron> i need meanings
<anakron> but i cant find anything
<lfaraone> Hi, I've got a package in debian sid that didn't make the import freeze IIRC, how hard is it to get it in jaunty?
<Laney> lfaraone: just file a sync request if it works on Jaunty
<lfaraone> Laney: what version of python is Jaunty based on?
<Laney> 2.5 iirc
<lfaraone> Laney: how long should I wait for the sync request to be processed before trying it again? (I'm on a dynamic range and might be killed by a spam filter)
<Laney> I don't use the email interface
<lfaraone> Laney: who approves those requests?
<Laney> lfaraone: MOTUs, then an archive admin has to manually process it
<Laney> subscribe the sponsors
<AdamDH> http://www.pastebin.ca/1299733 can any one tell me why extract-source is not been ran? been looking over it for an hour and cannot see why not. I wrote the shell for apply path and remove patch and tried it standalone first so I know that works
<Laney> james_w: u-uk meeting in 10 mins if you're interested
<james_w> thanks Laney
<AdamDH> i got my rules to run in order now but I get: dh_testdir for i in `cat urrent_directory/series | grep -v "#"` do
<AdamDH> /bin/sh: Syntax error: end of file unexpected any ideas why? do I have to escape the shell script at all?
<coppro> anyone for REVU?
<directhex> only for mono packages
<wikz> I have uploaded a new package for spicebird, would someone like to revu it? spicebird is a collaboration client and it's based on TB3a2. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=spicebird
<AdamDH> do shell vairbles work the normal way inside rules? as patches=`cat CURRENT_DIRECTORY/series | grep -v "#"` cat: /series: No such file or directory so its not finding CURRENT_DIRECTORY even tho it was declared
<TheMuso> AdamDH: If you wish to perform nested shell commands in a rules file, you need to do something like $(shell cat blah)
<AdamDH> what about if I want to run a chunk of shell code?
<AdamDH> do loops work the same way in the rules file?
<TheMuso> AdamDH: No, you can do loops in a rules file, but you need to put a backslash at the end of each line. I suggest having a look at the rules file for the espeak source package, as it is done there.
<AdamDH> so doing CURRENT_DIRECTORY=`pwd` I need to do CURRENT_DIRECTORY=$(shell pwd)?
<TheMuso> AdamDH: There is already a variable for the current directory, $(CURDIR)
<AdamDH> as an example is CURRENT_DIRECTORY=$(cat example) correct as I get missing separator. Stop.
<TheMuso> AdamDH: Again, I suggest you look at the rules file for the espeak source package, as that has most shell examples present in it.
<AdamDH> why is there nothing documented about running shell inside rules? that example looks ideal as it shows some simular stuff to what I am doing
<TheMuso> AdamDH: Because rules are makefiles.
<TheMuso> i.e the rules file is a makefile.
<AdamDH> right so trying to do what I am trying to do at the moment is going to be a headache, running some shell code inside the makefile
<AdamDH> example if I do current_directory=$(shell pwd), i know there is a var for it just an example how do I use current_directory then inside $(shell) ? do it as normal $shell(cat current_directory/series) etc?
<TheMuso> AdamDH: I think you have to use 2 $ signs.
<TheMuso> AdamDH: I haven't done it in a while, so can't exactly remember.
<AdamDH> im getting the hang of this, how do I use If then else in a makefile then?
<TheMuso> AdamDH: There are special makefile directives for if etc. Unfortunately I can'
<TheMuso> Unfortunately I can't remember what packages use them currently.
<AdamDH> i will see if google brings anything up for it
<broonie> The GNU Make manual is pretty good.
<pochu> Laney: well, it will block your glom upload... but it's up to you :)
<Laney> pochu: Will none of the packages get published until -doc clears?
<Laney> I guess that makes sense
<Laney> 'tisn't such a big deal
<pochu> Laney: it won't, nope
<Laney> ah well
<Laney> as long as it doesn't take 6 weeks
#ubuntu-motu 2010-01-04
<bdrung> Laney: it's time to clear the u-m-s queue. i am not a core dev, so i can go to bed now.
<bdrung> geser, Laney: http://overbenny.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/empty-ubuntu-universe-sponsors-queue/
<geser> I hope the u-m-s queue gets started processing again next week, I've there several merges waiting
<bdrung> geser: i wonder if i should become core dev. then i could work on the main queue, too
<bjsnider> does the linker in a build system try to link the object file to code inside a shared library?
<bjsnider> in other words, some_file.o linked to some_library.so?
<RAOF> It'll link the resulting binary, but âsome_file.o" won't be linked to âsome_library.so".  It'll just have an unresolved symbol which could be found in some_library.so when some_file.o is being linked.
<bjsnider> i'm getting "undefined reference to" errors, and i thought it could be because the code in the shared library doesn't matcht he code in the object file. is that possible?
<persia> Certainly.  If you're getting that at compile time, it's likely that either the API has changed or that you don't have the required -dev installed.
<bjsnider> i do have the -dev installed. i made the dev myself and installed it
<persia> If you're getting that at link time for a previously compiled binary, it could just be ABI shift, in which case recompile.
<bjsnider> it passes the configure check that it's there
<RAOF> Possibly the library API changed and some_file.o hasn't been updated.  Or, possibly, they just don't check for this in configure.
<RAOF> (This provides _endless_ fun for mono apps)
<persia> configure usually just checks to see if -lfoo works when passed to the linker, rather than for the contents of the ABI.
<bjsnider> ok, this is an old patch and new linbraries, but the header and the patch are both the same age, and the libraries are 5 months newer, so i'm going to assume that's the problem
<RAOF> persia: Or pkg-config's it up, for the classes of libraries that I seem to be working with. :)
<persia> bjsnider: So you're compiling code and get the link failure at the last step, for a just constructed .o file?
<persia> RAOF: Oh fun :)
<bjsnider> that's right
<bjsnider> it happens during make
<bjsnider> the configure check is also a patch and obviously it isn't sophisticated enough to check abi changes
<persia> bjsnider: I usually only encounter that when there's been an API change to the library.  Fixing it involves porting the old code to the new API.
<persia> You wouldn't have that for just an ABI change, as your .o is compiled to the latest ABI.
<bjsnider> well, there's the header and the c file that are both old, and i ain't no programmer, so my work is doneski
<persia> Don't count yourself out.  90% of API porting is relatively easy.
<RAOF> It's a fun way to learn C :)
<persia> Just check the function definiton in the API docs and the call int he code.
<persia> Sometimes it's as simple as s/int/long/ or s/char*/const char*/
<bjsnider> you mean just reaplce one function with what appears to be its replacement?
<persia> Depends on the nature of the API change, but it's often as easy as that.
<bjsnider> its successor i mean
<persia> Mind you, most functions are called with variables, so you may have to retype the variable, etc.
<bjsnider> the trouble is i can't test the resulting code because i don't have the hardware
<persia> Can you find someone who does?
<bjsnider> probably not
<persia> What code is this that interests you yet involves hardware you neither have nor know someone who has?
<bjsnider> mplayer +bluray playback
<persia> And it's the bluray hardware you don't have?
<bjsnider> and the discs
<persia> Anyone have a bluray player and some time to help bjsnider test something in a few hours?
<bjsnider> no, forget it
<bjsnider> waste of time
<RAOF> Does mplayer have blueray decrypting abilities now?
<RAOF> I wasn't aware that the DRM had been sufficiently broken to a libdvdcss-level yet.
<bjsnider> everything does
<bjsnider> bluray encryption is a joke
<directhex> RAOF, i don't think it's broken to that level. it can play rips though
<RAOF> bjsnider: But substantially less of a joke than CSS
<directhex> Playing St Trinians.m2ts.
<bjsnider> RAOF, there's an ubuntu wiki page about this very thang
<directhex> better behaved than with hd-dvd rips Â¬_Â¬
<ripps> Hmmm.... it seems that the em8300-headers are missing from the Ubuntu repos
<ripps> in Lucid
<persia> ripps: For which architecture?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/em8300 implies they ought be present.
<persia> Err, nevermind.  It implies precisely the opposite.
<persia> Debian bug #553690 may explain more
<ubottu> Debian bug 553690 in ftp.debian.org "RM: em8300 -- RoM; buggy, unmaintained" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/553690
<ripps> persia: I'm making a custom mplayer package, and the debian packaging I've based it has em8300-headers as a dependency
<persia> ripps: Well, if it's for your own use, you could use the hardy package.  If you're looking to get it into Ubuntu, you could reinstroduce em8300 and solve some of the outstanding bugs.
<persia> More than anything, this package mostly needs a maintainer.
<ripps> persia: I wonder if em8300 is even needed, what exactly does it do?
<persia> ripps: I believe em8300 was drivers for a set of television cards available at some time.  I may even have one gathering dust somewhere.
<persia> dxr3.sourceforge.net has more info.
<ripps> ah, my mplayer is being compiled specifically for coreavc support, so I can probably just remove it.
<persia> Well, I'd recommend checking the site to make sure.  I also had a special hardware video injector for my DVD player in that machine, and may be confusing the two.
<HFSPLUS> UBUNTU AND LINUX ARE CANCER IN A SENSE IF YOU USE IT YOUR BODY WILL GET SEPSIS AND YOU WILL GET CANCER EVERYWHERE IN YOUR BODY
<HFSPLUS> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<HFSPLUS> !staff
<ubottu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, PriceChild, niko or stew, I could use a bit of your time :)
<Hobbsee> afternoon all
<StevenK> Heh, k-lined
<RAOF> That dude /again/?
<crimsun> (I wish people would actually use "cancer" properly if they're going to troll)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah, some people get really bored, it seems
<ripps> *sigh* even libxvidcore4 is missing in the lucid repos
<persia> ripps: Most of what ends up being removed is removed because nobody is caring for it.  If you wish to use these packages, and want to get them in shape, I suspect they can be restored.
<StevenK> ripps: I can still see libxvidcore4 in lucid?
<ripps> StevenK: I'm trying to build mplayer in a ppa and I'm getting a dependency error with libxvidcore4-dev
<ripps> it seems the +debian in the version string is confusing it.
<StevenK> No, libxvidcore4-dev is the old name, the package has been renamed to libxvidcore-dev
<ripps> StevenK: oh, well there's the problem, but why is livxvidcore4-dev still in the repos than? it should be removed.
<StevenK> ripps: A few minutes ago, you thought something had been removed, and now you want something removed. :-)
<crimsun> I think I need to do a screencast or something on these FTBFS ;-)
<crimsun> this beats reading data sheets anyday
<ScottK> That or convince sistpoty to come back of hiatus and make him fix them all.
<crimsun> oooh
<dholbach> good morning and happy new year! :-)
<fabrice_sp_> Hey dholbach ! Happy new year to you too!
<dholbach> hey fabrice_sp_! thanks :)
<fabrice_sp_> thanks ;-)
 * Yagisan sighs. I wholeheartedly recommend that no one else here experience the pain of removing 1040 files that should never have been committed to a git repo, with the commits made over 3000 commits before head ...
<Yagisan> git filter branch could really use wildcard globbing ...
<alkisg> I'm trying to have the following dependencies, but it's not really working with apt-get, can anyone see why?
<alkisg> Package "A" conflicts with "C". Package "B" depends on "C | D".
<alkisg> I want this: when users install "B", they also get "C", unless they have "A" installed, in which case they get "D" instead.
<slytherin> alkisg: What did you try exactly?
<alkisg> slytherin: My goal is to test & propose a slightly different set of dependencies for pulseaudio, so that it conflicts with libsdl1.2debian-alsa, so that libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio is selected when someone has pulseaudio installed and wants to install something sdl-related.
<slytherin> alkisg: OK. And what changes did you try and what is not working?
<alkisg> (sorry, phone, be back in 10'... :()
<alkisg> Sorry for the delay. I tried it first directly with pulseaudio (made a newer package that conflicted with libsdl1.2debian-alsa and uploaded it to my PPA) but that gave me an error about not satisfiable dependencies and broken packages, so I tried to simplify it:
<alkisg> so I made a dummy ubuntu-sdl-pulse package with just "Conflicts: libsdl1.2debian-alsa, libsdl1.2debian-all, libsdl1.2debian-esd, libsdl1.2debian-nas, libsdl1.2debian-oss" in it.
<alkisg> Then I did the following steps:
<alkisg> 1) Removed everything sdl related
<alkisg> 2) Installed the dummy ubuntu-sdl-pulse package
<alkisg> 3) Tried to install tuxpaint.
<alkisg> tuxpaint uses libsdl, so at that point I was hoping that libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio would be pulled in
<alkisg> And indeed aptitude was able to offer me that solution, with score=100
<alkisg> But apt-get instead proposed the removal of the dummy ubuntu-sdl-pulse package, and the installation of libsdl1.2debian-alsa
<alkisg> slytherin: ^^^ that's what I tried, any thoughts?
<slytherin> alkisg: sorry I was away. I think this may have something to do with priority of the packages specified in debian/control file
<alkisg> slytherin: any way to solve the problem?
<slytherin> no idea
<hakaishi> Hi folks, anyone up to review qt-shutdown-p? It's a little Qt4 program to shutdown the system after a given number of minutes or at a given time, while one can always see how much time is left. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p
<hakaishi> Hi everyone, anyone up for reviewing qt-shutdown-p? It's a little Qt4 program to shutdown the system after a given number of minutes or at a given time, while one can always keep an eye on how much time is left. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p
<coder> mmm, it seems impossible to install 9.10 desktop x64 on softraid
<mok0> coder, huh? I thought that was possible using ext4
<coder> there's no even option on the installer
<mok0> coder, alternate installer?
<coder> no
<mok0> Hm. Disappointing
<coder> installer doesn't even recognize disks, while at console they are ready
<mok0> coder, I have to admit, I've not installed a new Ubuntu in a while... I'm on an update streak
<mok0> coder, just heard from my colleague that he did it with /boot on an LVM partition
<coder> I find no benefits of putting /boot on a LVM2 volume
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> huhu bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<directhex> it's a bddebian!
<bddebian> heh
<BlackZ> hi bddebian
<sebner> bdmurray: happy new year + have you ever thought about updating warsow? :P
<bddebian> sebner: Was that for me? :)
<sebner> bddebian: argh. sure!
<bddebian> sebner: Do you mean to upstream 0.5?
<sebner> bddebian: yep
<bddebian> I can take a look
<sebner> bddebian: no rush, just there for some months already :P
<BlackZ> sebner, hello
<sebner> BlackZ: hoi
<Quintasan> hmm I get permission denied on uploading to REVU, what's wrong?
<kamalmostafa> Help with 'requestsync'?  I would like to make a sync-request for xvnc-0.9.9-1 from http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/x11vnc but "requestsync x11vnc lucid" gets "E: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (0.9.8-2)."   What am I doing wrong?
<ScottK> kamalmostafa: We are syncing from testing by default and that's what's in Testing.  You need to specify you want to sync from Unstable.
<kamalmostafa> ScottK: requestsync -d unstable x11vnc lucid    ... gets the same error.
<ScottK> kamalmostafa: Then it's a bug in requestsync.  Debian recently started keeping more than one version around in Unstable and it's picking the wrong one.  Please file a bug against ubuntu-dev-tools.
<Laney> no
<Laney> I already fixed that one
<Laney> grab requestsync from bzr and try that versino please, kamalmostafa
<ScottK> Laney: Is the fix in Karmic?
<kamalmostafa> ScottK: Yes, that package does have more than one version in 'unstable'
<Laney> ScottK: I dunno. I didn't backport it, at least.
<ScottK> Laney: I think it's SRU material.
<kamalmostafa> I am running Karmic FWIW -- I will try grabbing requestsync from bzr.
<ScottK> OK, well Laney then we ought to get it fixed in Lucid first
<Laney> ScottK: It is in the latest Lucid release (0.86)
<ScottK> Laney: OK, then kamalmostafa shouldn't be having the problem.
<ScottK> Oh, nevermind
<ScottK> I read that wrong
<ScottK> Laney: I do think it's worth an SRU.
<Laney> revision 547 if someone wants to SRU it
 * Laney is running Lucid
<Laney> wait, that's not the one
<ScottK> Laney: Was there a bug for this or did you just fix it?
<Laney> ScottK: I was mistaken, geser did the fix (I did it for pull-debian-source)
<Laney> (AFAIK)
<ScottK> Laney: OK.  Both those ought to be fixed.
 * ScottK uses pull-debian-source from unstable a lot
 * Laney too
<Laney> kamalmostafa: does it work if you use --lp?
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Why yes... yes it does!
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Yes, with --lp, it detects the proper (latest) version number from Debian unstable.  Without --lp, it gets the wrong version number.
<Laney> That's right. Without --lp we use rmadison which wasn't parsed correctly
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  The exact command I mean is:   requestsync [--lp] -s -d unstable x11vnc lucid
<Laney> 547 and 546 for the SRU
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Do you wish me to request an SRU for those changes?  (I'm new here, but eager to help).
<Laney> if you want to prepare the SRU you can grab the diffs from those two commits and apply them to the karmic-updates version of ubuntu-dev-tools. Then test it works correctly and if so file a bug with the debdiff.
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Okay, I will do so.  Thank you both very much for your help.
<Laney> kamalmostafa: let me know when it's up
<kamalmostafa> Laney: will do.
<james_w`> can anyone tell me how to find out whether LaserJock has upload permission to qcad?
<james_w`> I know he doesn't have either component upload rights or package upload rights for it
<james_w`> I'm not sure how to determine package set rights
<james_w`> err, wrong channel, sorry
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  I have the relevant ubuntu-dev-tools trees extracted -- but what exactly are "547" and "546"?  The lucid tree "bzr log" lists revno 86 as the latest revision.
<Laney> kamalmostafa: are you looking in the changelog? I see 553 revisions here. Try bzr diff -r 545..546
<chrisccoulson> james_w - only ubuntu-core-dev can upload qcad can't they?
<chrisccoulson> == All uploaders for package 'qcad' ==
<chrisccoulson> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'edubuntu' in karmic
<chrisccoulson> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'edubuntu' in lucid
<kamalmostafa> Laney:   bzr diff -r 545..546     bzr: ERROR: Requested revision: u'545' does not exist in branch: ...
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  maybe I don't have the correct tree after all.  Which tree should I be looking at here?
<Laney> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Okay, got it.   I had pulled "ubuntu/lucid/ubuntu-dev-tools".   Too many trees.   I now have 533 changes.  I'll let you know when I'm stuck again :-)
<james_w`> chrisccoulson: "package set 'edubuntu'" has me suspicious
<Laney> laney@pheasant> bin/ubuntu-archive-tools/edit_acl.py -P edubuntu -S lucid query                                                                            ~
<Laney> == All uploaders for package set 'edubuntu' in 'lucid' ==
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'edubuntu' in lucid
<Laney> james_w`: ^
<james_w`> ah, so the set hasn't been delegated yet?
<Laney> looks like it
<james_w`> thanks
<ScottK> james_w`: laserjock is core-dev
<james_w`> not according to LP
<ScottK> Weird.  Maybe he quit?
<ScottK> He certainly was.
<james_w`> it says he was deactivated from the team in 2007
<Laney> you can query with -p person query
<james_w`> maybe he had an indirect membership after that
<Laney> == All rights for laserjock ==
<Laney> (none)
<highvoltage> that's quite odd, I'm quite sure he was a core-dev last year still
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you know about the above?
<ScottK> 2007 is when he joined core-dev
<james_w`> oh
<stgraber> jordan must still be a coredev, otherwise he couldn't have done seed changes for the last 6 months
<stgraber> or he recently left the teams and I didn't notice ...
<geser> unfortunately LP stores the date when someone expired but not when someone deactivated himself
<james_w`> sync spam!
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  I have built and tested the requestsync fix -- inspect the changelog?: http://paste.ubuntu.com/351396/
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  And how exactly should I push it?  To "karmic-proposed" somehow?
<ScottK> kamalmostafa: Attach the debdiff to a bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<geser> and change the version to "0.81.2" (it's an Ubuntu-specific package, it doesn't need the ubuntu1 suffix)
<geser> and target "karmic-proposed"
<Laney> kamalmostafa: you should say that you are backporting the fixes from lucid
<Laney> also...
<Laney> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<kamalmostafa> gezer:  Do I understand you to mean:  change "karmic" to "karmic-proposed" in debian/changelog?  Version change understood.
<ScottK> kamalmostafa: Yes
<kamalmostafa> Where should I say that I am backporting fixes from Lucid?  In debian/changelog, or bzr log, or both?
<ScottK> debian/changelog
<emet> hey if I am packaging something and I am having problems, can I ask for help here?
<highvoltage> james_w`: "(21:23:25) Jordan Mantha: I deactivated over the weekend some time"
<emet> I'm new to debian packages
<Laney> kamalmostafa: Also you should remove the Closes (and maybe not credit us in [ Name ] blocks as it makes it look like we made the change in Karmic)
<Laney> mmm syncs
<hakaishi> Could some please review qt-shutdown-p? It's a small Qt4-program to shutdown the system, while one can keep an eye on the countdown. One can both enter a number of minutes or a time. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p
<hakaishi> ah... I meant: could someone... ^^'
<randomaction> !ask | emet
<ubottu> emet: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<kamalmostafa> Laney, geser, ScottK:  Can I just use this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+bug/498349 for the SRU, or do I file a new one?     Should I ref that bug in the changelog?   My revised debian/changelog for your review:   http://paste.ubuntu.com/351400/
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 498349 in ubuntu-dev-tools "[lucid] requestsync bails attempting to parse the changelog for haskell-src-exts from Debian unstable main (1.3.0-1)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ScottK> kamalmostafa: Same one.
<ScottK> kamalmostafa: I opened a karmic task on the bug.
<kamalmostafa> ScottK:  For my edification, how did you do so?
<ScottK> kamalmostafa: I clicked on nominate for release.
<ScottK> Since I'm an Ubuntu Dev, it opened the task.  You would have to nominate it and then wait for someone to approve it.
<kamalmostafa> ScottK:  Got it.  Okay, I await further comments on my revised debian/changelog before submitting the debdiff:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/351400/
<kamalmostafa> ScottK: Please review again?:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/351400/
<kamalmostafa> Laney: Please review again?:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/351400/
<kamalmostafa> geser: Please review again?:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/351400/
<Laney> kamalmostafa: looks good
<Laney> if you want you can say what problem it fixes too (our changelog entries could be better)
<Quintasan> persia: I get "permission denied" when uploading to REVU, noticed it yesterday, do you have any idea what's wrong?
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  I have attached the requestsync debdiff to LP: #498349 and subscribed "ubuntu-universe-sponsors".   Do I now *also* need to "bzr push" the package to karmic-proposed per Step 4 of the SRU wiki page "Procedure"?
<Laney> kamalmostafa: no, but please subscribe ubuntu-sru
<sebner> hihi Laney :=
<sebner> :)
<Laney> hiya
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Ok, ubuntu-sru is subscribed.   What does Step 4 mean?:  "4. Upload the fixed package to release-proposed with the patch in the bug report, a detailed and user-readable changelog, and no other unrelated changes."
<Laney> the sponsor does that
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Ok, got it.  So... Next step for me then?
<bmm> How long do you guys think it will take for the launchpad PPA to include Lucid? I've just installed Lucid and only now I remember how much I love my PPA :D
<Quintasan> persia: I would be also grateful if you could remove (or poke the one who can) all acetoneiso, krunner-kopete, plasma-widget-* since they are my uploads, they were not accepted and not maintained so I won't work on them -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/u/quintasan
<ScottK> Quintasan: I can do it (I think)
<Laney> kamalmostafa: you should follow the SRU procedure (particularly steps 1 and 4)
<Quintasan> ScottK: That would be nice since they only sit there and waste space and time
<ScottK> Archived all of them
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Do you mean Procedure steps 2.1 and 2.4?... that I should add an impact statement and detailed instructions to the bug?
<Laney> right
<Quintasan> ScottK: Oh just remembered to ask. What's the difference between Archive and Nuke?
<Laney> someone will need to verify the upload before it can get to karmic-updates, and they will need instructions on how to do so
<Laney> Quintasan: archiving is reversible, nuking is not
<ScottK> Quintasan: Archive means it still exists, but isn't listed.
<ScottK> Nuking means deleting
 * bmm moving hist PPA question to the launchpad channel
 * bmm does not know how to spell appoligize
<ScottK> bmm: It's supported for a long time alread
<ScottK> y
<Laney> kamalmostafa: I just looked at that bug and it doesn't look like one which is fixed by your SRU
<kamalmostafa> Laney: Oh boy... now where did I find that bug number?...
 * Laney shrugs
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Okay, I see where I misfired here.  :-(
<bmm> ScottK: ah, just noticed that. Sorry for the question all together :D
<bmm> ScottK: oh and thanks for the answer!
<kamalmostafa> Laney: I grabbed completely the wrong bug-id from the debian/changelog in the lp:ubuntu-dev-tools tree.   But the one listed as being relevant to this issue is (Closes: #560758) which is not a LP bug.  Now what?
<Laney> kamalmostafa: you can open a new one
<Laney> and "nominate for release" it to Karmic
<Laney> 560758 s a Debian bug
<kamalmostafa> Ok, and how do we undo the mess we made with 498349?
<Laney> just make the status Invalid and add a comment :)
<kamalmostafa> What about the "nominate for release" that you did?
<kamalmostafa> Oh, you mean make that "Karmic" line Invalid?  Yes?
<Laney> yes
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Okay, I have filed a new LP bug for requestsync:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+bug/503111        When I click "Nominate for release", I get a list of Debian (not Ubuntu) releases.   Where did I go astray?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 503111 in ubuntu-dev-tools "False: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already during requestsync" [Undecided,In progress]
<Laney> kamalmostafa: I did it
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Thank you.  Do you know why I got Debian versions list there?
<Laney> kamalmostafa: See "debian" in the URL
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  I guess I mean to ask -- How did you attach the Karmic task there?
<Laney> I changed the URL
<Laney> s/debian/ubuntu/
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Magic!  I do not have a grasp of the bugs.launchpad.net URL structure yet.   Okay...  is 503111 all set then?
<Laney> kamalmostafa: yep, looks good
<kamalmostafa> Laney:  Okay, then I will keep an eye on 503111.  Thank you VERY much for all your help today (geser and ScottK also).   We took care of the requestsync problem, and it looks like my Lucid x11vnc FTBFS that started all this is on its way to ubuntu-archive.   I hope to work with you fine folks again soon.
<rickspencer3> hi
<rickspencer3> looks like I did my first upload to Revu, but there are a couple of lintian errors (oops)
<rickspencer3> shall I just fix them, nuke the built files (.changes, .dcs, etc..., targ.gz, etc...)
<rickspencer3> rebuild and re dput?
<ScottK> rickspencer3: Yes.
<rickspencer3> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> You don't actually need to nuke the files, they'll get over-written when you rebuild
<rickspencer3> ScottK, even easier
<sebner> hoi rickspencer3, happy new year! :)
<rickspencer3> hi sebner
<rickspencer3> happy new year to you!
<sebner> :)
<sebner> let's see if it'll be happy though :P
<rickspencer3> looks like I have a couple of issues to tackle, they look easy, maybe someone can help?
<rickspencer3> the first is...
<rickspencer3> This is a native Debian package, with no .orig.tar.gz tarball.
<ScottK> rickspencer3: Why?
<rickspencer3> ScottK ... that's in the "warnings/notices" section of the review page, is it a problem?
<Laney> depends what it is (but likely yes)
<ScottK> It's not inherently a problem, but that's almost always wrong.
<rickspencer3> well, it's my own code
<rickspencer3> so it's not like I have an "upstream" to package
<ScottK> Sure, but it's not inherentlty Debian/Ubuntu specific.
<ScottK> So you should talk to upstream about making one ....
<rickspencer3> ScottK, I am upstream
<rickspencer3> I am *the* upstream
 * ScottK knows
<rickspencer3> hehe
<Laney> exactly
<rickspencer3> Laney, ScottK, I appreciate you guys helping me with this, debian packaging is not my forte
<ScottK> rickspencer3: The trick to this (I found the first time I tried to do it) was to first put on an upstream release hat and do what you would do to release it.  Then put on your packager hat and package it.
<rickspencer3> so I just rename quidgets_0.3~public1.tar.gz
<ScottK> So make an orig.tar.gz with no Debian dir in it.
<ScottK> move the debian dir aside and reroll it.
<rickspencer3> ScottK, I just put it back next to other files now, and dput takes care of it
<rickspencer3> ?
<ScottK> debuild, but yest
<ScottK> Then you should have a .diff.gz
<Laney> rickspencer3: If you have an orig.tar.gz present then debuild will work out the diff (which is your debian/ directory) and make a .diff.gz out of it
<ScottK> You do need to be mindful of naming.
<Laney> read what debuild -S says â it should tell you if (and what) orig.tar.gz it's using
<ScottK> Your directory should be quidgets-0.3 and the tarball quidgets_0.3.orig.tar.gz
<rickspencer3> Laney, I moved the orig.tar out of the way, reran dpkg
<rickspencer3> so I have two tar.gz files
<siretart> ScottK: can you promote yasm? pitti already set the MIR bug to 'fix committed', but I wonder what is left to be done about that
<ScottK> siretart: I can't.  That takes shell access.
<siretart> aah, ok
<rickspencer3> Laney, am I better off with the diff, or am I good now?
<Laney> rickspencer3: you want three files - orig.tar.gz, diff.gz, dsc
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> Laney, got those now, thanks
<Laney> cool
<Laney> lsdiff -z blah.diff.gz should show just files in debian/
<rickspencer3> Laney, how about this one:
<rickspencer3> This package has no debian/watch file or get-orig-source rule.
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> do I need to point to my PPA or something?
<ScottK> That should point to the upstream source for the package.  Don't sweat it for now.
<Laney> Ideally you publish your releases somewhere and then write a watch file to download them with uscan
<Laney> (see man uscan)
<rickspencer3> Laney, like I just pick an arbitrary ftp server location?
<ScottK> rickspencer3: Wherever you expect people to come find new versions.
<rickspencer3> ScottK, ok
<Laney> see apt-get source gnome-do for an example which uses tarballs published on Launchpad
<rickspencer3> ScottK but I can skip that for now?
<ScottK> Yes.
<rickspencer3> next was ..
<rickspencer3> #  The changelog does not close a bug from Launchpad. New packages should have a needs-packaging bug and the upload close it using the syntax "(LP: #nnnn)".
<rickspencer3> can I skip that as well?
<ScottK> I think the odds that anyone else is packaging this are low enough you don't need to worry about the needs-packaging bug.
<rickspencer3> ScottK appreciate that
<rickspencer3> so finally, it looks like it wants me to include a copy of GPL-3 rather than just refer to it here: /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3
<rickspencer3> is this a problem?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Your package has to have a full copy of the license in it.
<ScottK> Usually you just have a file called COPYING that has it in there.
<ScottK> You'll need to redo to tarball for this.
<rickspencer3> ScottK, shall I just copy the text into the Copyright file?
<ScottK> No.  debian/copyright and upstream COPYING are two different, but related things.
<ScottK> debian/copyright is just in the diff.gz, so it doesn't support having a distributable source tarball
<rickspencer3> so I take the text for the license, create a file debian/COPYING, and fill debian/COPYING with the text of the license?
<rickspencer3> then re-run dpkg?
<ScottK> rickspencer3: No, COPYING doesn't go in debian, it goes in your upstream tarball
<rickspencer3> ah
<rickspencer3> so start over
<ScottK> Then in debian/copyright you have the license snippet, the link to common-licenses, copyright info, etc.
<rickspencer3> I mean, I start over
<ScottK> Right, move the debian dir aside again, add COPYING, and then reroll the tarball
<rickspencer3> ScottK, does this matter:
<rickspencer3> The Maintainer  field is invalid. It has to contain an @ubuntu.com address (usually the Ubuntu MOTU Team's). The packager can leave his/her name as XSBC-Original-Maintainer.
<rickspencer3> I used my canonical email, I can change it to @ubuntu I suppose
<ScottK> Make yourself original maintainer
<ScottK> That update-maintainer script in ubuntu-dev-tools should do the right thing
<rickspencer3> ScottK - I assume this is referring to the Control file
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Back later
<rickspencer3> ScottK, ok
<rickspencer3> thanks for your help
#ubuntu-motu 2010-01-05
<ed__> hello
<ed__> who's the one to talk to if I have a problem with a tar.gz file?
<asac> ed__: #ubuntu
<ed__> ok
<ed__> cheers
<xnox> asac: =)))))) dh_xulrunner stuff thank you for review/approve
<asac> np
<xnox> can't wait for it to land in lucid so that my packages will stop FTBFS in lucid ;-)
<asac> thx
<asac> hehe
<xnox> your welcome =) scratching an itch really
<asac> yeah. soon
<xnox> cool
<asac> .7 is getting out soonish ... that will trigger it
<xnox> asac: please comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DmitrijsLedkovs ??? =)
<asac>  done
<xnox> asac: thank you very much =)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-01-03
<sagaci> i've tried to create an environment using pbuilder-dist unstable create but it spits out errors and aborts, do I need to add any other options to get it to proceed
<micahg> sagaci: cna you pastebin the errors?
<sagaci_> micahg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/549710/
<micahg> sagaci_: I think that's bug 599695
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599695 in pbuilder (Ubuntu) "pbuilder always passes Ubuntu keyring, even when creating e.g. Debian environments" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599695
<sagaci_> ah ok, thanks. Reading through it now
<mneptok> street signage in my city - http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4747440725_09fed08e38.jpg
<mneptok> that is all.
<ripps> It seems that the wingpanel project has started using waf to build the program, but it requires installing a binary into the source directory. I find this a bit untrustworthy, but it seems that waf has only been in Karmic and no other ubuntu release since, what are the reasons for this?
<sebner> ripps: IIRC it was considered evil and pretty broken, DktrKranz knows
<DktrKranz> ripps: upstream wanted Debian (hence Ubuntu) to drop waf package because users were reporting bugs because of version mismatch (e.g. software was compatible with waf 1.5.0, while we packaged 1.5.11)
<ripps> DktrKranz: should I advice the wingpanel devs to not use it? I have trouble trusting a project that requires an unknown binary to build and install
<DktrKranz> ripps: while I personally think having a software which is tremendous backward and forward incompatible every version is plain crazy, upstream thinks this is safe because you have to stick with a given binary blob
<DktrKranz> ripps: if I were a project, I'd avoid using waf as buildsystem of choice. If they're sure of waf, make them aware they have to include waf binary in every tarball they release
<directhex> and bundling means unpackageable
<DktrKranz> ripps: waf binary is basically a self-unpacking bzip2 archive, upstream doesn't want distribution to provide it unpacked, we argued a lot about that and we were threatened to be removed an important part of it just for the sake of making our life harder.
<Bachstelze> that's insane
<DktrKranz> at that point, I didn't want to fork a project just because of that :)
<ripps> DktrKranz: Are you a Motu?
<DktrKranz> ripps: yes
<DktrKranz> ripps: see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/149572 for a summary
<ripps> should I mark as a security vulnerability?
<ripps> I don't know enough about waf to be making any arguments for or against it, so maybe you guys can take a look: https://bugs.launchpad.net/wingpanel/+bug/696756
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 696756 in wingpanel "Request to not use Waf buildsystem" [Undecided,New]
<ripps> He says he uses waf in midori without issue, and that autotools is just as untrustworthy.
<askhl_> Hi.  I have a PPA with some translators' tools for ubuntu, originally written by Sebastian Heinlein and others.  Would someone like to help getting this into universe?  This will make it easier for non-expert translators to fix translation errors.  URL: https://launchpad.net/~askhl/+archive/ppa .
<DktrKranz> ripps: yeah, it's just running in cyrcles, everyone has something to say about every buildsystem. waf is free software (if you exclude some doc, deliberately non-free to discourage packagers), but the rest of the code is dfsg-free. It's just a matter of being comfortable with a method.
<DktrKranz> personally, I don't like it, as you *cant* simply update to new waf in case embedded waf has security issues or other bugs, as you have to redesign buildsystem due to incompatible changes. If upstream is happy with that, fine.
 * DktrKranz hugs sebner for having thrown the first stone :)
<sebner> hahaha
 * sebner hugs DktrKranz back
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you look at backport clementine? bug 694475
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694475 in maverick-backports "Backport clementine 0.6-0ubuntu3 to maverick" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694475
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You already have ubuntu4 in Natty.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: bug title is out of date
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Please update it and then ask again.
<ScottK> It's important for backports to specify the exact version you want.
<c2tarun> I have a question regarding gpg key? where should i ask?
<ari-tczew> c2tarun: here on #launchpad
<ari-tczew> s/on/or
<ari-tczew> ScottK: if I want to backport to lucid, which target should I point - maverick or natty?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Backport to maverick and lucid from natty.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: updated bug 694475
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694475 in maverick-backports "Backport clementine 0.6-0ubuntu4 to maverick" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694475
<aboudreault> hi
<aboudreault> is there a way to make the version 1.1 greater than 1.06 ??
<aboudreault> initially, the maintainer didn't know 1.0x was treated as 1.x.
<micahg> aboudreault: why wouldn't that be greater?
<dapal> micahg: (it isn't indeed :))
<dapal> aboudreault: you have two options
<dapal> a) epoch. But that's forever
<dapal> b) use something like 1.06+really1.1, that will vanish as soon as >= 1.7 arrives
<aboudreault> I see.
<micahg> 1.10 seems to work as well
 * micahg is confused still, but dpkg --compare-versions doesn't lie
<dapal> micahg: 1.10 is different from 1.1, isn't it?
<dapal> those are version numbers, not "math numbers" :)
<micahg> dapal: yes, that's what dpkg --compare-versions says
<aboudreault> will use something 1.06+SOMETHING1.1
<aboudreault> is there something standard I should use, rather than "really" ?
<maco> really is the standard
<aboudreault> Ok
<maco> or at least its what everybody does, so...de facto standard!
<dapal> one could always use "omg-damn-you-upstream"
<aboudreault> +upstream sounds better
<dapal> (I'd vote for +really)
<dapal> but, anything really is ok
<aboudreault> ok ok. will use +really :P
<dapal> even 1.06+1.1
<jdstrand> fyi for anyone building natty python packages: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-January/032299.html
<sebner> jdstrand: is this also a pbuilder issue?
<tumbleweed> aboudreault: I use 1.0.6 for upstreams that do that (of course you have to know they do that, first :) )
<aboudreault> yeah ^^
<jdstrand> sebner: yeah. ari-tczew uses pbuilder and he is the reporter
<geser> I checked my natty pbuilder and python2.6-minimal was in state "rc" for me
<ari-tczew> I'm checking pbuilder right now
<ari-tczew> how can I delete release from pbuilder-dist?
<ari-tczew> RainCT, Laney, persia: are you familiar with pbuilder-dist? looking from manpage
<RainCT> ari-tczew: Just delete the <release>-base.tgz and <release>_result directory (and the pbuilder-<release> symlink if you created one)
<ari-tczew> RainCT: would be nice to create a command 'pbuilder-dist remove' :)
<RainCT> Yeah, maybe
<RainCT> Â«pbuilder-dist create <foo>Â» could also ask if you want a Â«pbuilder-<foo>Â» symlink
<ari-tczew> RainCT: I have aliases in ~/.bashrc like alias pbuilder-natty='pbuilder-dist natty'
<Laney> ari-tczew: a symlink achieves that without the need for an alias
<directhex> i use env vars
<directhex> 'cos that's what i've always used
<directhex> DIST=sid ARCH=armel pbuilder build foobar.dsc
<BlackZ> micahg: can you please have a look at bug #695728 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 695728 in pytrainer (Ubuntu) "fails to start in natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/695728
<micahg> BlackZ: weird, it has a py2.7 library
<BlackZ> micahg: the problem can be reproduced with python 2.6 too
<micahg> ok, that makes more sense then, probably needs tweaking for xul2.0
<BlackZ> micahg: there's a newest version in my PPA. I did some tests with it
<micahg> BlackZ: of which?
<BlackZ> micahg: pytrainer
<micahg> BlackZ: ah, ok, any other gtkmozembed apps having issues?
<BlackZ> micahg: hmm, I didn't check but you can try with "miro"
<micahg> BlackZ: ok, I probably won't be able to look at it until later this week
<BlackZ> micahg: not a problem at all. Thanks! :)
<ari-tczew> jdstrand: you're right. everyone should recreate his chroot.
<ari-tczew> I've recreated natty chroot and python-django built fine.
<aboudreault> it seems that my dh_shlibdeps fails
<aboudreault> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for debian/libgaul/usr/lib/libgaul.so.0 (used by debian/gaul-bin/usr/bin/gaul_diagnostics).
<aboudreault> here's how I execute dh_shlibsdeps: dh_shlibdeps -a -L libgaul -l debian/tmp/usr/lib
<aboudreault> where am I wrong?
<tumbleweed> micahg: it's completely unimportable, so yes they are all probably having issues
<micahg> tumbleweed: ok
<ari-tczew> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Pong
<maco> can someone please try making a natty pbuilder and tell me if it hangs interminably on    I: Unpacking makedev...
<maco> thanks
<ari-tczew> ScottK: You wrote on clementine backport bug, that feedbacks should be commented on backport bug. It's pretty bureaucratic and requires me to force that activity on testers. I believe that you can understand that I wouldn't disencourage my testers due to commenting in several places.
<maco> (I'm doing this from lucid--just added a symlink to make natty available for pbuilder-dist, but i dont think host system should matter...)
<tumbleweed> maco: works for me (on squeeze)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: If you had just said in that bug that it runs on maverick (with a reference to the other bugs) that would have been fine.  I don't have time to hunt through multiple bugs to find out if it's been tested.  I think being unwilling to at least mention in the bug report that it's been properly tested is not respectful of the time I invest in reviewing backports requests.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Does the way which I did was OK? Paste links to feedbacks?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes.
<ScottK> Somehow the bug needs to say that the packages builds, installs, and runs in the target environment.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Then it's fine. I thought that I was clear on bug. In future I'll link comments.
<BlackZ> maco: works fine here, too
<maco> hrmm thanks
<maco> BlackZ: are you on lucid?
<BlackZ> maco: yes
<maco> maybe the lucidyness *does* matter...
<maco> oh
<maco> hrmph
<maco> oh!
<BlackZ> maco: works fine on maverick too
<maco> well i just learned something new about screen...
<maco> when you use ctrl+A,Esc to get into "i can scroll now" mode, it stops having any output below where you entered that mode so things LOOK hung til you ctrl+c
<BlackZ> maco: right :P
* ari-tczew changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Natty DIF is now over, time to bring the archive in shape! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congrats to new Debian Developer: bdrung | New MOTU: angelabad
<SpamapS> micahg: Reading through the gnome shell bugs and I see you're working on it. Is there any way to install gnome shell in natty?
<SpamapS> I have the PPA added but I can't install it
<micahg> SpamapS: ATM, not really, I would like to have a build working from the GNOME3 PPA soon, but my list of urgent things is growing
<SpamapS> blast
<SpamapS> If Unity would just work w/ nvidia + multi-monitor I'd use that.. but..
<micahg> SpamapS: isn't the classic desktop available
<micahg> ?
<SpamapS> Probably
<SpamapS> but I've never been very happy with that either
#ubuntu-motu 2011-01-04
<sagaci> so if I want to package something, would it be best to package it for natty?
<sagaci> rather than maverick
<kklimonda> sagaci: yes
<hrw> morning
<hrw> I added debdiff to bug 691407 - can someone check and if it is ok then do upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 691407 in bash-completion (Ubuntu) "Missing apt-get changelog completion" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691407
<geser> hrw: can you convert it to a proper quilt patch (in debian/patches) so your change doesn't end as debian-changes-*?
<dapal> hrw: and maybe forward it to me, since I'm going to make a bash-completion 1.3 upstream release in the next few days?</spoiler>
<hrw> ok
<hrw> will do both
<hrw> thx
<dapal> hrw: (nevermind, for next time, I'm already committing that)
<hrw> dapal: ok
<dapal> hm. Is "apt-get changelog" an Ubuntu-specific thing?
<dapal> I don't have it on my sid.
<dapal> $ LANG=C apt-get changelog bash-completion
<dapal> E: Invalid operation changelog
<hrw> dapal: yes, it is ubuntuism
<hrw> dapal: ubuntu packages have changelogs cut to 10 entries
<dapal> hrw: ack, then go ahead with the quilt patch, and look for a sponsor. I'll do a merge when I'll release 1.3
<dapal> hrw: ah, right.
<dapal> thanks for reminding :)
<evaluate> hello dapal :-)
<hrw> geser: http://pastebin.com/bxD3NGW3 looks properly?
<dapal> hello evaluate :)
<dapal> evaluate: I'm replying to your mail right now :)
<evaluate> dapal, sure, no hurry here
<geser> hrw: yes, much better
<hrw> geser: ok, will add to bug and hunt for sponsoring
<dapal> evaluate: could you point me to a .dsc ? :)
<dapal> evaluate: I wrote other things in the mail, if you have any doubts re the advocacy, just ask :)
<evaluate> dapal, hmm, I pushed the package to mentors.d.n, but I just noticed that the version there is the old one (although dput didn't report any erorr). I'm checking on this roght now
<dapal> evaluate: also, since you receive the confirmation mail from mentors, it'd be nice if you included the link in the RFS mail :) (so I don't have to dig up mentors to find it, but just dget it)
<evaluate> dapal, awkward: http://pastebin.com/LTxZ5Awf
<evaluate> dapal, yes, I normally include that link (and did so in the past) I just forgot about it this time. Sorry about that
<dapal> evaluate: remove the *.upload files you have there ;)
<evaluate> dapal, ok, dput worked again (just like the first time around), but mentors.d.n still shows me the old version... http://pastebin.com/1mUxxaZa
<dapal> evaluate: maybe it's just down/under maintainance/whatever. Do you have any place to upload: .debian.tar.gz, .orig.tar.gz, .dsc ?
<evaluate> dapal, sure. Give me a minute please.
<dapal> evaluate: if not, just send them to my inbox. :)
<evaluate> dapal, http://clipit.rspwn.com/files/
<dapal> evaluate: uhm. I get 404's.
<dapal> (on the files, while I see the listing)
<dapal> i.e. wget http://clipit.rspwn.com/files/clipit_1.3.11-1.dsc â 404
<evaluate> dapal, ok, please try http://b3r3.info/files/
<evaluate> I guess the wordpress installation that's on clipit.rspwn.com screwes that folder up...
<dapal> yup, it works
<hrw> dapal, geser: bash-completion bug 691407 landed in archive
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 691407 in bash-completion (Ubuntu) "Missing apt-get changelog completion" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691407
<dapal> nice, I'll re-check that when I'll make a merge for 1.3/2.0
<dapal> (still haven't decided what to exactly include in the release)
<dapal> evaluate: uploaded. If I had to decide re DM based only on this package, I'd say yes ;)
<dapal> evaluate: still, it'd be nicer if you maintained other 2-3 packages :)
<evaluate> dapal, ok. I replied to your mail
<dapal> evaluate: you can directly contact me :)
<evaluate> dapal, ok. I have also seen that gpointing-device-settings has been put up for adoption and it's quite an interesting package, but it seems a bit complicated for a newb...
<dapal> evaluate: shared libraries are evil beasts, but I can help you if you want to get it :)
<evaluate> well, if you have some links for me, where I could get some knowledge on what for example the *.install and *.symbols file are and what they do, and also what to take into consideration with such packages, I'd be happy to adopt it...
<dapal> evaluate: *.install files, simple -- just read "man dh_install"
<dapal> evaluate: symbols files are only used in shared libraries, wait a minute
<dapal> evaluate: http://wiki.debian.org/UsingSymbolsFiles , man dpkg-gensymbols
<evaluate> dapal, cool. Thank you!
<dapal> evaluate: in a word, they reflect the API of the library, and how it changes through versions
<dapal> evaluate: if you remove something from the .symbols, it means the library broke the API, so it needs a SONAME bump and a package rename
<dapal> evaluate: also, library packaging has certain policies -- but since this isn't a new package, and you're probably adopting it, you'll have time to learn :)
<evaluate> dapal, ok, I'll contact the maintainer. Not sure if I can really "show off" my skills with this package though, as upstream seems to be kinda slow with releases (last release was more than half a year ago).
<dapal> evaluate: you can always fix bugs :D
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: ping
<highvoltage> good morning everyone
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> hi highvoltage
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: could you add comment on MoM when you have done debdiff for merge? we use like "merge bug #xxxxxx"
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: is it really necessary? I fear I don't have a lot of time for doing that..
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: 30 sec of work
<ari-tczew> and you won't waste time of other contributors
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: they can check the bugs of that package ;)
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: are you egoist?
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: no, I'm just saying the reason why I don't do that (usually). Another reason (like I said above) is that I don't have much time to spend for doing that :) we have different opinions, and that doesn't mean a person is egoist
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: ok, I'll still inhibit your core-dev application.
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: if your comment will be constructive I will have no problems accepting it (aside if it's positive or not ;)
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: if applicant couldn't spend 30 sec for improve flow of information, he is not ready to join core-dev.
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: so in your opinion who doesn't that shouldn't be core-dev? :)
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: dunno, better is rate on examples
<ari-tczew> 100% greenhorns shouldn't join core-dev
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: I can't agree with you. But let me tell you a thing: like somebody else said you, your behavior is a bit "provocative" and "irritating" sometimes. Unfortunately, this is not only a my impression.. in Ubuntu we're a great family and I'm sorry to see people like you not respecting the Ubuntu CoC..
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: nice play, changing the subject of discussion
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: so Ubuntu community is a totalitarian system? if you have another view than CoC, get out?
<ari-tczew> I can! but what will say Ubuntu development...
<Pici> Lets be civil here.
<ari-tczew> Pici: hehe, I thought we are.
<ari-tczew> CoC is blocking my sincerity. what can I do?
<Kmos> BlackZ: how about to spend time doing the debdiff instead of the bad talking?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: CoC is not about the substance but a form.
<ari-tczew> hello Kmos
<Kmos> hi ari-tczew
<highvoltage> My personal code of conduct is much stricter than the CoC so following the CoC has never been a problem for me personally
<BlackZ> Kmos: *bad talking* ?
<ScottK> BlackZ: FWIW, I agree that putting comments in MoM when you upload something is overkill.
 * kklimonda would suggest a direct link for package's b.lp.n page sorted by added date in the descending order
<ScottK> Kmos: AFAIK you still aren't supposed to be involved in Ubuntu development.  Please stick with that.
<kklimonda> that would make it easy for people who care about package to see if someone is working on it, and remove the need for updating an additional page when you start work
<ScottK> kklimonda: It only shows up on MoM until the next time it updates.  It's a pretty narrow window of time to worry about it.
<ScottK> Kmos: OK.  I understand that's not the case, but I will say that I don't find such comments helpful participation.
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Since I gather you're supposed to be keeping track ...  ^^^ This we don't need.
<Kmos> ScottK: It was just a personal comment for something that isn't nice to read, nothing more, but I'll continue with my mouth closed. I don't see this as Ubuntu dev participation, but Ok.
<ScottK> Kmos: The topic of this channel is Ubuntu development.
<joaopinto> here we go again, the helpful, friendly and constructive law enforcement
<ScottK> joaopinto: I'd like some helpful friendly contribution to development.  If people aren't going to do that, there's no point in them being here.
<joaopinto> ScottK, "people aren't going to do that" is an assumption from your side, based on past experience
<ScottK> joaopinto: If it's based on experience, unless there's evidence to the contrary, it's fact, not an assumption.  So far Kmos's contribution is to bitch about how other people are talking.  I'm still waiting for something productive to happen.
 * kklimonda just discovered abort-on-upstream-changes option and is wondering why isn't it default for v3..
<tumbleweed> kklimonda: yeah, I wish it was, but that would break backwards compatibility
<kklimonda> that would also save us from uploading packages that revert all patches - which is probably going to become a new badge of honor ;)
<kklimonda> tumbleweed: are you talking about breaking compatilibity now, or has it been decided not to enable it by default when the new source format was being drafted? i.e. is this a new option or has it been since the beginning?
 * tumbleweed calls those quilt anti-patches :)
<tumbleweed> it was a selling point to people who didn't like quilt - that they could just treat it as a 1.0 package, and their patches would get stored as quilt patches
<joaopinto> ScottK, criticism can be a constructive form of contributing, I just wished we could drop the blacklisting approach and just either ignore or support those willing to contribute
<ScottK> joaopinto: I wish we didn't have people attempt 'contribution' that was so destructive it needed blacklisting.  Fortunately it's only happened once so far.
<joaopinto> I remember school education from my parents stories, when it was freely accepted that punishement and isolation was a proper mean for education
<joaopinto> since then there has been a significant improvement on society, we are expected to have better people management skills these days
<kklimonda> actually, punishment is a perfectly fine as an education tool if used rationally.
<kklimonda> meh, I should finish making a dinner instead of discussing philosophical topics.. ;)
<joaopinto> :P
<geser> the ban was not issued easily, it took time and several attempts to resolve the problem and was a last measure.
<joaopinto> geser, I am aware of the story, I still don't think it was the best outcome
<joaopinto> I don't see how the existing discussion between the "unbanned" users was any more constructive than the comment from Kmos in order to prompt for a ban warning
<ScottK> joaopinto: Which is why I think the whole unbanning thing is a mess.  He should just find another way to spend his time.  This is already causing distraction.  But I can already guess you'll have a different view.
<joaopinto> I don't believe bans are positive or even effective means to block someone genuinely willing to participate in an open community style managed project
<micahg> udienz: just to update you on firestarter, I got a little more information about it and the patch is mostly fine, there's one extra change that shouldn't be needed, I'll test and upload tonight if it works, sorry for the delay
<ari-tczew> Kmos, BlackZ: sorry for my away, I have problems with electricity
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, reading your previous conversation, if you don't agree with the CoC is very unlikely that you will feel happy contributing to Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> joaopinto: I'm reading into your mind that you don't want me here.
<joaopinto> our community is not totalitarian but there is a common base of values which is shared, otherwise we would not be a community at all, mostly of those values are described in the CoC
<ari-tczew> joaopinto: OK, I'll leave this circus and I'll have more free time for me.
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, this is not about being wanted or not, this is about you wanting to be part of this community or not
<ari-tczew> bdrung: does new update-maintainer update also debian/control if control.in exist?
<ari-tczew> joaopinto: I see no problem. That's all.
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, that is not an answer for the question about willing to be or not a community member
<joaopinto> and judging from your answer you have doubts about your willingness :)
<ari-tczew> joaopinto: You're right.
<ari-tczew> joaopinto: I don't like the politics of love.
<aboudreault> What's the command to see all lintian warning of a package? is this dependant of the debhelper version used?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes
<bcurtiswx_> how can I get pbuilder to use the gnome3-team PPA ?
<anoteng> you could just use pbuilder --login, and add the ppa to sources.list
<bcurtiswx_> anoteng, thx i'll try that
<micahg> bcurtiswx_: there's also the OTHERMIRROR parameter
<micahg> err...that should be --othermirror for the parameter :-/
<anoteng> bcurtiswx: just remember to apt-get update before logging out again, easy to forget that one...
<cybertron> hi i'm realy new into debian packaging, i'll try to build an .deb package only with my binary tool and some extra files, but dont get it :/
<cybertron> i tried the ubuntu wiki way
<cybertron> s "Building the package locally)
<cybertron> +a
<bcurtiswx_> micahg, how do I use the --othermirror paramter?
<bcurtiswx_> micahg, nvm i hit the spacebor too many times.. i see it now
<joaopinto> cybertron, do you have an objective question ?
<bcurtiswx_> pbn build empathy_2.91.4.3-0ubuntu1~build1.dsc  --othermirror "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/gnome3-team/gnome3/ubuntu natty main"
<bcurtiswx_> pbn is pbuilder-dist natty
<bcurtiswx_> that isn't working but appears from the man to be right
<tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: pbuilder-dist may not play well with --othermirror
<tumbleweed> hmm, no, looks like it should
<tumbleweed> but you'll need to do an update with the --othermirror first (I think)
<cybertron> joaopinto: hm yes in general, perhaps I'm on the right way now...I create in the base dir usr/bin and usr/share/foo, is that correct?
<joaopinto> cybertron, which base dir ?
<cybertron> foobar-0.4
<cybertron> foobar-0.4/usr/
<bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, would i need --save-after-login
<joaopinto> you don't create install directories in the source
<joaopinto> which type of application are you packaging, which language ?
<cybertron> joaopinto: k, then where I have to place my images and so on?
<tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: if you want to make changes while logged in, yes. however, pbuilder-dist passes the --overide-config option to pbuilder, so it'll replace the sources.list at the start of the build
<cybertron> c++ code
<joaopinto> cybertron, the images are located at some directory of your source right ?
<tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: so, I suggest pbn update --othermirror foo; pbn build bar.dsc --othermirror foo
<joaopinto> cybertron, you are building a source package, using dh_make and friends ?
<cybertron> joaopinto: yes normaly I have this structur foo-binay and images/
<cybertron> joaopinto: yes with dh_make, but I wanna only package my binary+images
<bcurtiswx_> Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net/gnome3-team/gnome3/ubuntu/ natty/main Translation-en
<tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: that's expected
<joaopinto> cybertron, you don't need to recreate the install directories as you do with binary builds
<cybertron> joaopinto: but what then?
<joaopinto> cybertron, edit debian/dirs add there the directories that you need to be created
<tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: please file a pbuilder-dist bug (package ubuntu-dev-tools) about easy building with PPAs, that sounds like a useful feature
<joaopinto> dh_installdirs which is invoked from the debian/rules will make sure they are created in the temporary location for package building
<cybertron> joaopinto: there is no dir file
<joaopinto> dirs
<joaopinto> create it if needed
<cybertron> joaopinto: so like debian/bin and debian/bin/images ?
<joaopinto> no
<joaopinto> you create a file name debian/dirs, containing: usr/bin<enter>usr/share/appname/images
<cybertron> k and then? where I have to put my files?
<joaopinto> aren't your files already present on the source directory ?
<cybertron> joaopinto: if u mean in debian/source ...no
<joaopinto> uff, no, I mean your source directory
<joaopinto> you don't manually place files from your source into debian/
<cybertron> k then it is correct
<cybertron> joaopinto: and now? I have something to add to the rules?
<bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, sources.list isn't saved in a --save-after-login
<tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: it is, but it gets replaced when pbuilder is called with --overwrite-config (which is what pbuilder-dist does)
<bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, ah OK
<tumbleweed> I think that's a poor design choice, and I might change it (I'm busy tweaking related bits)
<bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, OK
<joaopinto> cybertron, bett use some minimal rules like /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny
<cybertron> joaopinto: i tried now debuild and it builds but in the .deb there isnt any file of me
<joaopinto> which is fine, because you don't have a makefile with an install rule, and you didn't yet specificy that files should be installed
<bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, bug #697411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 697411 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "pbuilder-dist should be easier to use with PPAs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697411
<joaopinto> do you have a minimal Makefile which builds the source ?
<tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: thanks
<cybertron> joaopinto: no cauz I dont wanna compile?
<joaopinto> so you aren't building from source ? you are going to ship the binaries in the orig tarball ?
<cybertron> joaopinto: yes
<joaopinto> ok
<joaopinto> so now just edit/create debian/install
<joaopinto> the format is: source target
<joaopinto> example
<joaopinto> images/*.png usr/share/appname/images
<joaopinto> everyone, is http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ the proper place to look for FBTFS needing working ?
<geser> yes
<tumbleweed> joaopinto: those are the ones that are currently failed, there is another list on udd.debian.org that will fail if rebuilt
<joaopinto> what's the recommended :) ?
<tumbleweed> fixing as many as possible :P
<cybertron> joaopinto: k, done
<joaopinto> is there a bug automatically created for FTBFS ?
<joaopinto> cybertron, just rerun debuild
<tumbleweed> joaopinto: no, the uploader (and maintainer, IIRC) get e-mails when a package fails to build
<cybertron> joaopinto: looks great :D now testing to install with dpkg?
<cybertron> joaopinto: mach thx, works fine
<cybertron> mach=mich
<cybertron> gan
<cybertron> much!
<joaopinto> :)
<cybertron> joaopinto: but a last question...why does my binary is finding the images? cauz it is linked in the binaray as ./images and not /usr/share?
<joaopinto> uh ? images are not linked, unless you are inlining them as data, in which case you don't need them externally at all
<joaopinto> how do you read the images ?
<cybertron> oh ok, dont know exact i worked with the sfml framework
<joaopinto> no idea what is that about :)
<joaopinto> ah, http://www.sfml-dev.org/
<cybertron> joaopinto: np: its a multimedia framework for c++
<cybertron> you can code realy easy games with it
<joaopinto> when can we get your game from :P ?
<cybertron> haha
<cybertron> wont be released  ;)
<cybertron> its just a project for school
<cybertron> and just a "gamepart"
<joaopinto> asking open source community packaging support for a closed source project gives you bad karma
<cybertron> its a game to lean sql injections
<cybertron> +r
<cybertron> joaopinto: it will never finished
<joaopinto> :P
<cybertron> k now its time to sleep, much thx again, bye
<micahg> it has been suggested if one needs to bump a build dep because the slower archs (arm, PPC) are out of date,  that should be called a no source change rebuild if the change is not desired to be kept (i.e. want a sync), I think this should be a regular Ubuntu change since there actually is a change in the packaging, even if it's temporary, opinions?
<tumbleweed> micahg: I'd agree, no change = no change, temporary changes should be labelled as such
<mr_pouit> tumbleweed: is "Bump xfce4-panel-dev b-dep to >= 4.7.7 to force using the new version." okay, or should I add "because lp doesn't support binnmus and makes me waste my time doing 40 source uploads instead of a single mail to -release" next time?
<tumbleweed> mr_pouit: yeah, that's fine
<micahg> tumbleweed: fine, as in a valid use of buildX?
<tumbleweed> micahg: that could be a reasonable use of buildX, it'll mean auto-sync later
<tumbleweed> it is misleading, though
<micahg> tumbleweed: that's my issue with it
 * micahg wishes this was written in a policy somewhere either way
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "psuedo-packages."
#ubuntu-motu 2011-01-05
<ScottK> micahg: I would describe the change correctly (not as no change) in debian/changelog, but still use the buildX revision since syncing over it in the future is the right course of action.
<micahg> ScottK: right, but shouldn't update-maintainer be run since the build-deps are changing in which case it really should be an ubuntu version?
<ScottK> micahg: I see buildX as more about what you want to have happen.  In this case it's fine.  Changing the maintainer would be correct, but I don't think is a big deal.
<micahg> ScottK: I see it more of what it is (i.e. a no change rebuild), maybe we should try to get this per-arch rebuild stuff addressed at UDS-O
<ScottK> micahg: It's a question of cost versus benefit.  In this case the cost of being pedantically correct exceeds the benefit.
<micahg> I might be being too uptight about it, idk
<ScottK> micahg: It's a judgement call.
<ScottK> In any case, versioning build-deps as a guard against misbuilding due to archive skew is a good practice.
<dholbach> good morning
<porthose> good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi porthose
<highvoltage> ffff
<sagaci> hi
<hakermania> hello
<ari-tczew> hi hakermania
<psusi> one thing that annoys me about bzr is that when you look at a merge commit, it shows a bunch of modifications as if you did them, instead of them coming in because of the merge.  Is there a way to fix that?
<tumbleweed> psusi: commit with --author foo?
<deadwill> ScottK, siretart, happy 0x7db
<deadwill> o/
<kklimonda> hmm, firmware-b43-installer does something nasty - during installation, if it detects chipset that isn't supported, it aborts installation and leaves package in the unconfigured state esentially ensuring that people are going to ask "why can't they install anything" (which isn't true - but they get error every time they install something when dpkg tries to configure firmware-b43-installer and
<kklimonda> fails)
<RoAkSoAx> n
<ari-tczew> m
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<ari-tczew> :)
<RoAkSoAx> ;)
<cybertron> hi, how can i force the installer to install depends?
<micahg> depends should be installed automaticlaly
<cybertron> yes should.. ^^
<cybertron> but I got only the message that this packages are not found
<micahg> cybertron: then maybe you don't have the packages
<Laney> how are you installing?
<cybertron> micahg: hm perhaps wrong named? libsfml-system for e.g.
<cybertron> Laney: dpkg -i
<Laney> apt-get -f install
 * micahg usually fires up aptitude after a dpkg -i that fails to get the dependencies
<cybertron> k ill try
<cybertron> and atm i got problems with links and dont know why
<cybertron> so resources files will be searched in the wrong directory if the programm starts
<cybertron> but one hour ago it works fine
<cybertron> Laney: i have the deb packet localy so apt-get wont work
<Laney> specify it on the same dpkg -i line then
<ebroder> cybertron: dpkg -i doesn't make any attempt to find packages you don't give it directly. it just tells you that they're missing
<cybertron> ebroder: right, but how can it force to install them? or tell me another way to install it
<ebroder> cybertron: if you have the debs locally, what Laney said. if not, use dpkg -i. then run apt-get -f install
<tumbleweed> bdrung: any objections to my merging that syncpackage-681693 u-d-t branch? I'd like to base other branches off it.
<cybertron> k so i have to do it with twi commands
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i didn't find the time to review it. due to its size i need some time for reviewing.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ok, I'll hold back
<ebroder> cybertron: there's also gdebi, which i like to use because it can do this in one command, but it's not installed by default anymore
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ping me again at the weekend
<tumbleweed> bdrung: sure, thanks (review is appreciated, and also good motiviation)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: today i worked on libkibi ;)
<tumbleweed> yeah, I guessed that's where your time was being spent
<tumbleweed> release coming up?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i hope so. i pushed the current version to my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~bdrung/+archive/ppa
<cybertron> any idea why cant fine my external resources anymore? so if i start my tool it dont find the images anymore
<Laney> anyone know how to attach patches to sf.net reports?
<ebroder> Laney: iirc there's usually a separate tracker for attaching patches
<tumbleweed> Laney: patches are separate kinds of sf.net reports, but I thought thye could all take attachments?
<Laney> yes there's an attachment bit
<cybertron> forget it got it... ^^
<cybertron> -t
<Laney> but I can't figure out how to add one... ebroder: any pointers?
<Laney> ah, tracker>patches
<ebroder> Laney: i think you have to be a member of the project or something to create attachments on bug reports, but i think anyone with an sf account can open a "patch tracker" item?
 * Laney found it, hooray for intuitive UIs!
 * ebroder is really glad that the world is largely moving away from sf as a hosting solution
<bdrung> launchpad is definitively better than sf, even if they only support bzr.
<ebroder> github is better than sf, even though it's nominally just code hosting
<cybertron> hm i wrote a .desktop file for the menu, but if i start it a short window blinks and ends
<cybertron> is there any chance to see an error msg?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i found a nice test case: kibi_format_memory_size_for_display(655360)
<bdrung> :D
<ari-tczew> bdrung: around?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I just installed u-d-t daily and trying to handle with pbuilder-dist natty. now should do I use it without sudo ?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes, it should be used without sudo
<ari-tczew> bdrung: $ pbuilder-dist natty create Error: Cannot create results directory "/home/ari/pbuilder/natty_result/"
<ari-tczew> chmod ?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you remove ~/pbuilder and try again?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: hmm.. it requires reintroduce all distros. I guess it's necessary for sudo change?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: then don't do it. then use chmod.
 * micahg would guess that root owns stuff, so chown would be more appropriate
<ari-tczew> $ sudo chown ari -R pbuilder
<ari-tczew> works fine
#ubuntu-motu 2011-01-06
<ari-tczew> +1 micahg
<micahg> ari-tczew: we have the same issue when people run firefox with sudo
<bdrung> ari-tczew: file a bug if it happen again
<ari-tczew> micahg: lol why firefox with sudo? Someone must be pretty boted.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: happen what?
<ari-tczew> s/boted/bored
<micahg> ari-tczew: some people think you need to run everything with sudo
<bdrung> ari-tczew: if pbuilder-dist fails due to file permissions
<ari-tczew> micahg: the same sentence I heard from kadu upstream developers.
<bdrung> micahg: the new pbuilder-dist should even work with sudo (and then use /root/pbuilder)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: well, I think that I can file a bug right now because I'm not planning again reintroduce natty chroot.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: your bug could be triggered by and older version of pbuilder called with sudo (which should be fixed now).
<ari-tczew> bdrung: IMO everyone who is upgrading from old pbuilder is affected by this bug
<bdrung> ari-tczew: really?
 * micahg doesn't use the current pbuider-dist w/sudo but is prompted for password
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I use pbuilder-dist since lucid.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: but did you run pbuilder-dist with sudo?
<ari-tczew> now sudo has been changed and you adjusted pbuilder-dist. everyone will have to change permissions
<ari-tczew> bdrung: already not. but before run pbuilder-dist I had to do: $ sudo chown ari -R ~/pbuilder
 * micahg thought one of the benefits of pbuilder-dist was not having to run w/sudo
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i am not a pbuilder-dist user, but it looks like it was never meant to run with sudo
<ari-tczew> micahg: and store files in friendly ~/ directory, where you can write access ;)
<ari-tczew> s/can/have
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you can file a bug if you can provide steps to reproduce the problem
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ok, but how do you want to fix this case? add a warning about incorrect permissions?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: wasn't the error message clear enough? if not, then file a bug requesting a better error message.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could be added 'Please set permissions for you correctly. Root is already an owner of ~/pbuilder."
<bdrung> "Root is already an owner of ~/pbuilder."?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: that's the reason of use chown
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes, but ~/pbuilder could be owned by someone else
<bdrung> ari-tczew: or ~/pbuilder could be mounted read only
<ari-tczew> bdrung: then pbuilder-dist created it r-o. I'm the only user of Ubuntu, so who can be an owner of ~/pbuilder? root :)
<ari-tczew> and chown fixed problem
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes, that's your case, but the error can be trigger by other reasons like mentioned above
<ari-tczew> bdrung: what's the conclusion? file a bug or not...
<bdrung> ari-tczew: file a bug or talk to tumbleweed
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: around?
<blueyed> I wonder why this build fails: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/61691370/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.php5_5.3.5~snap201101060130-0~blueyedppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<blueyed> error seems to be: Zend/zend_stream.c:239: error: 'PROT_READ' undeclared (first use in this function)
<micahg> blueyed: missing a library or header?
<blueyed> micahg: maybe, but that's in there unpatched and used in other places. Probably some patch breaks it.. I am basically using a mashup from Debian/Ubuntu and the PHP snapshot.
<micahg> you can try asking on #ubuntu-server as they might be more familiar with the code
<blueyed> PROT_READ gets defined in bits/mman.h, which gets included by sys/mman.h - without the latter, mmap would not be available, too, would it?
<blueyed> the include is protected by "if HAVE_SYS_MMAN_H" in Zend/zend_stream.c
<blueyed> ..and I cannot find where this would get defined.
<blueyed> There is one "checking for sys/mman.h... no" (and all others "yes"). How can this be? The "no" one also seems to come from the same configure?! (or is this mangled output from parallel builds?)
<blueyed> Why does it look like there are two configures running in parallel? Search for "sys/mman" in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/61691370/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.php5_5.3.5~snap201101060130-0~blueyedppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dholbach> good morning
<sagaci> afternoon
<sagaci> dholbach: are you going to do more ustream tutes
<dholbach> sagaci, yes, not this week, but definitely some time after that
<udienz> micahg, about bug 694413. sorry for delay. i have tested now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694413 in firestarter (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package firestarter 1.0.3-8ubuntu1 in natty" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694413
<dholbach> could anyone imagine giving a dev training session at either 13th Jan, 12:00 UTC  or  20th Jan, 18:00 UTC  or  27th Jan,  0:00 UTC ?
<dholbach> (if you'd like to move the time, that'd be fine too)
<benste> hi, iirc you're the team who care about packaging ?
<benste> found a bug - namely a missing dependency of a package
<benste> should i simply use groundcontrol to download and add it ?
<benste> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeedu/+bug/698056
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 698056 in kdeedu (Ubuntu) "parley 2scripts could not be executed - missing dep" [Undecided,New]
<benste> ?
<benste> someone here ?
<benste> dholbach: is there an easy way fixing a dependency issue ?
<benste> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeedu/+bug/698056	
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 698056 in kdeedu (Ubuntu) "parley 2scripts could not be executed - missing dep" [Undecided,New]
<dholbach> benste, yes, get the source of the package, edit debian/control and add the dependency
<benste> with groundcontrol ?
<benste> will give it a try
<benste> dholbach: ist das normal, das groundcontorl wenn ich fix bug sage - einfach nur meine nautilus navigations sachen disabled ? - oder lÃ¤d der dann die ganzen source runter ?
<dholbach> benste, I have no idea about groundcontrol, sorry
<benste> :-) kk
<benste> dholbach: but do you know how big the package source might be ? - looks like it's downloading kdeedu - isntead of parley
<dholbach> I'd just run   bzr branch lp:ubuntu/kdeedu    or   apt-get source kdeedu   in the terminal
<dholbach> it might be pretty big
<dholbach> a lot of packages in the kde world are "bundled" together in one source package
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/551060/
<benste> dholbach: groundcontrol does use bzr :-) --- is working on 2nd atempt - downloading more than 120 MB till now
<benste> more than 320 MB now -- how should someone e.g. in India fix a bug in the package -- the download would take weeks if I wouldn't have VDSL 20 ??
<dholbach> it indeed is a problem - there are huge source packages and it's made worse by getting history of commits to the source package
<dholbach> AFAIK the bazaar team has "checkouts with shallow history" on their agenda
<geser> benste: which branch are you exactly downloading?
<benste> geser: kdeedu - finished with more than 400 MB
<benste> maybe the branch is also named
<benste> bugfix-lp-698056
<geser> benste: I guess you got the "upstream" branch instead of the "packaging" one
<benste> and this is ok or bad ?
<benste> i just told groundcontrol to fix the bug id ....
<geser> I don't know how groundcontrol works
<benste> btw. there is no src/debian - rememeber it from dholbach s training session, but it's not there
<geser> yes, because you probably got the upstream source (without the debian/ directory)
<benste> :-) ok will have to delete it and try it the other way
<geser> you need to branch https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdeedu/ubuntu to get the debian/ directory for kdeedu
<benste> not bzr branch lp:ubuntu/kdeedu as dholbach said ?
<geser> but I've little expierence with those kind of branches, so I don't know who to use them properly
<geser> that should work in theory (if kdeedu would have a such a branch)
<geser> but when you look at https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeedu you see that there is none
<benste> ok use "fetch branch" now and got redirected to the code one you set -- let's  hope the new download is not the same size
<geser> dholbach: do you have expierence with working with "only debian/" kind of branches?
<Laney> I believe bzr builddeb supports them
<Laney> "merge upstream mode" or something
<benste> -- there is only a deb dir in there is this correct ?
<geser> if "deb" == "debian" then yes
<benste> dholbach: the package which i wanted to add as dependency is already in there
<benste> python-qt4
<benste> ??
<benste> geser: dholbach that's kinda strange -- how can i check the deps of the package which i installed ? - maybe it was already updated ?
<geser> apt-cache show parley
<geser> benste: you sure you looked at Depends for parley in debian/control and not Build-Depends?
<benste> the package which i needed on install is in debian /control/build-deps
<benste> does i have to add it in the depends section too ??
<benste> argh -- there are multiple packages in this file
<benste> kdeedu build-depends on python-qt4
<geser> Build-Depends are packages which need to be installed during package building, Depends (for each package stance) are package that need to be installed before that (build) package can get installed
<benste> geser:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/551065/
<benste> should i simply add python-qt5?
<benste> 4
<benste> in line 4 with , ?
<benste> geser: or better in line 3 ?
<benste> geser: dholbach and what does i have to do next when I've added ",python-qt4" in line 3 ?
<dholbach> benste, line 3 sounds wrong
<geser> line 3 and 4 are logically one line (split into two to keep it readable)
<dholbach> not Build-Depends
<dholbach> but Depends
<dholbach> Build-Depends are the packages that need to be installed to build/compile the package
<benste> line 3 is Depends
<geser> dholbach: line 3 in his paste and not debian/control
<dholbach> ok
<benste> :-)
<benste> ok saved but how can i commit it ?
<benste> to the bug report ?
<geser> first you need to write a fresh changelog entry for it
<geser> debian/changelog entry (with dch -i)
<dholbach> run: dch -i   (devscripts package), document what you changed, run debcommit, bzr push lp:~<yourlpid>/ubuntu/kdeedu/bugfix-lp-698056, run bzr lp-open (and click on 'propose merge')
<Laney> test it?
<benste> dholbach:  got an error
<geser> dholbach: does debcommit also the linking to the bug? (bzr commit --fixes lp:698056)
<benste> http://paste.ubuntu.com/551071/
<dholbach> geser, if you add "LP: #234567" in the changelog, yes
<benste> geser: was in the wrong dir - ignore my pastebin
<benste> may i edit the changelog manually ?
<benste> and my e-mail adress is wrong in there
<geser> dholbach: and shouldn't the push go to: lp:~<yourlpid>/kdeedu/ubuntu/bugfix-lp-698056 in this specific case (it's not the autoimported packaging branch)
<geser> benste: better use dch to not break the format of debian/changelog
<dholbach> not the autoimported packaging branch?
<geser> no, kdeedu has no autoimported packaging branch (lp:ubuntu/kdeedu)
<geser> he uses the lp:~kubuntu-members/kdeedu/ubuntu branch (contains only the debian/ directory)
<dholbach> oh ok
<benste> dholbach: dch settings were explained in your packaging session - right ? - they're in the packaging guide ?
<dholbach> yes
<benste> need to change the e-mail adrees - thought it's using the one of my ssh key doesn't it ?
<benste> dholbach: i can't use dh_make -e mymailadress for that - as i don't have a whole package - how can i change the adress used by dch ?
<benste> DEBFULLNAME is set, this will be used for the maintainer full
<benste>        name; if not, then NAME will be checked.  If the  environment  variable
<benste>        DEBEMAIL
<dholbach> don't use dh_make if there's a packaging (/debian/ directory) in place already
<dholbach> please check out the packaging guide
<geser> export DEBFULLNAME="Your name"; export DEBEMAIL="your@email"
<dholbach> (^ put that into .bashrc and 'source .bashrc' or restart your terminal session)
<dholbach> benste, you don't neeed to ping me for every question - as you noticed there's a bunch of knowledgable folks in here :)
<benste> sorry :-)
<dholbach> don't worry :)
<benste> got an error on debcommit : http://paste.ubuntu.com/551074/
<geser> did you tell bzr who you are (your lp login) before branching?
<dholbach> $ sudo apt-get install bzr bzr-builddeb
<dholbach> $ bzr whoami "James Westby <james.westby@ubuntu.com>"
<dholbach> $ bzr launchpad-login james-w
<benste> dholbach: usually groundcontrol should have done this, but let try it
<benste> btw
<dholbach> as I said - I don't know about groundcontrol
<benste> on https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdeedu/ubuntu they say You cannot upload to this branch. Members of Kubuntu Members can upload to this branch.
<dholbach> it might be worth talking to doctormo about this
<benste> already took a look whether he's only but he's not atm :-)
<dholbach> then push to ~benste/kdeedu/fix-698056
<benste> bzr-builddeb libxdelta2 pbzip2 pristine-tar xdelta
<benste> where not yet installed
<geser> benste: that's not a problem as you will push into your "namespace" (lp:~benste) and propose a merge later to get into the ~kubuntu-members branch
<benste> argh, after installation debcommit works
<geser> benste: the next fix will be easier as you have the tools already installed then :)
<benste> at least until it gets to transport - but i'll try commit and push withouht debcommit
<benste> same issue as with debcommit ?? - http://paste.ubuntu.com/551077/
<dholbach> something still seems to have a lock on your branch
<dholbach> I don't know what groundcontrol does tbh
<geser> I guess you should either convice bzr that it can write now too or (probably easier) refetch the branch
<dholbach> or no... hm
<dholbach> ahhhhh
<dholbach> I guess groundcontrol did a "bzr checkout ..."
<benste> maybe :-)
<dholbach> in the directory run:  bzr unbind; debcommit
<dholbach> "checkout" gives you a bound branch where a commit will always be in sync with the remote branch, "unbind" should allow you to do local commits (which you need to push somewhere 'manually' afterwards)
<benste> bzr: ERROR: To use this feature you must upgrade your branch at bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdeedu/ubuntu/.
<dholbach> urgh
<benste> guess it will be easiest to delete this directory and start all new again ?
<benste> my change was only one line - so never mind
<geser> rename it so you don't lose your changes
<dholbach> copy the debian directory some other place and use "bzr branch ..."
<hakermania> Is it allowed to make a right-click menu for your program? E.g. to add a option to the AVIs right click menu that says Convert to-> and have a submenu with WMV, MKV etc.... Is it allowed?
<benste> geser: debdif worked now but have a new error on pushing http://paste.ubuntu.com/551086/
<dholbach> benste, lp:~benste/kdeedu/bugfix-lp-698056
<benste> dholbach: may i add you as reviewer ?
<dholbach> usually just proposing the merge should be good enough
<benste> sorry already suggested the merge with you as reviewer :-)
<dholbach> I'm not even member of ~kubuntu-members
<benste> :-)
<benste> but i remember you
<benste> thank you and geser for your help - took a long time but i've fixed my first easy bug now :-)
<benste> -- when it's accepted - the bug report will be auto updated to fix released ?
<dholbach> hum, it doesn't look right
<dholbach> === added directory 'debian'
<dholbach> === added directory '.bzr-builddeb'
<dholbach> it seems like you copied in the directory
<benste> i didn't :-(
<dholbach> and not modified the files that are available there
<benste> ok let's try it a 3rd time :-)
<benste> renaming the dir first again ?
<dholbach> request a review from kubuntu-dev instead of me
<benste> I'll do
<benste> but doesn't i have to fix this xxxx new lines issue first ?
<benste> I've only change one line :-)
<dholbach> I'm happy to have a look at it, but they're in a much better position to make the final judgement
<benste> - should i do it again or wait for their feedback ?
<dholbach> it looks like you copied those directories in
<dholbach> instead of just modifiying the changelog and control files
<benste> I've used cd ..
<benste> and debcommit  later - may this be the reason
<benste> debcommit is to be used in /ubuntu or in /debian ?
<dholbach> I don't know - it probably expects debian/changelog to be there
<dholbach> ... brb
<benste> i rebranched it now
<benste> now commit told me 2 files changed-- that seems to be correct
<benste> may i push to the same branch ?
<benste> These branches have diverged
<benste> got this errro message
<Laney> bzr push --force I believe
<Laney> or make a new branch
<benste> laney thanks created a new one
<benste> dholbach: I don't know what I doing wrong - same result on the 2nd try - branched - changed - added changelog - debcommit - push but more than 1000 lines changed ??
<benste> https://code.launchpad.net/~benste/kdeedu/bugfix-lp-698056_b/+merge/45388
<dholbach> can you pastebin the contents of the directory?
<dholbach> just run "ls" in ubuntu/
<benste> debian
<benste> http://paste.ubuntu.com/551101/
<dholbach> very weird
<dholbach> ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<benste> ??
<dholbach> this is because the way ~kubuntu-members/kdeedu/ubuntu is used confuses launchpad
<dholbach> ~kubuntu-members/kdeedu/ubuntu just contains packaging
<dholbach> lp:kdeedu is an upstream code import
<dholbach> benste, explicitly propose the merge into ~kubuntu-members/kdeedu/ubuntu
<benste> weird thing :-)
<benste> dholbach: changed https://code.launchpad.net/~benste/kdeedu/bugfix-lp-698056_b/+merge/45390 - the diff will be shown in a few minutes or ?
<dholbach> reload the page
<dholbach> it looks much better now
<benste> :-) thanks for your help
<dholbach> I'd change a few small things:
<benste> hope parley will stay the only kde app that I have to use :-)
<benste> -- which things ?
<dholbach>  - change "control - fix lp:698056" to "debian/control: add python-qt4 dependency for parley (LP: 698056)"
<dholbach>  - change "maverick" to "natty"
<benste> do you do it ?
<dholbach>  - change "benste" to your real name
<dholbach> apart from that: good work
<dholbach> I don't know about the kubuntu team's plans with it regarding the version number, so just leave it as it is
<benste> maverick â natty - in the bug report ???
<benste> and name in bashrc ?
<dholbach> in debian/changelog
<dholbach> and in .bashrc too
<benste> if i change the changelog i have to commit again and create a new branch again ?
<dholbach> not a new branch
<dholbach> just change debian/changelog, commit using something like: bzr commit -m "fix changelog entry"
<dholbach> then push it to the same branch
<dholbach> and hit "resubmit" on its webpage
<benste> dholbach: changes are upstream now - but i got a mail that my mail for the kubuntu dev mailing list was rejected -- it was the automated LP mail asking for review -- could you review it again :-)
<dholbach> "(LP:698056)" â "(LP: #698056)"
<dholbach> please let somebody else review it
<benste> in changelog ? :-)
<dholbach> yes
<benste> where can i find all theses rules if i do something similar again in future ??
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix is a bit outdated but should mention the most important bits (or link to them)
<benste> dholbach: have a nice afteroon - changed it, and hope they'll see it even if it's not forwarded to their mailing list
<dholbach> ^ Riddell, ScottK: any idea why merge proposals are rejected from the mailing list?
<benste> dholbach: "its a bit different in kubuntu branches, unreleased packages have UNRELEASED till they are put into the archives"
<benste> instead of natty :-)
<dholbach> ok, that's something some teams or developers do a bit different than others
<dholbach> as I said: I'm not part of the kubuntu development team, so I don't know how things are done there
<Riddell> benste: I got them thanks, will do them shortly
<Riddell> dholbach: because the mailing list is set to reject non-subscribers
<benste> Riddell: already got two other people who told me that I'll have to use Unreleased instead of natty :-)
<benste> Riddell: you might follow kubuntu-bugs - for the rest of the discussion too :-)
<hakermania> Is it allowed to make a right-click menu for your program? E.g. to add a option to the AVIs right click menu that says Convert to-> and have a submenu with WMV, MKV etc.... Is it allowed?
<Ayrton> I'm trying to package a software and I'm getting "running debsign failed" on debuild...
<Ayrton> debuild ask for my key password
<Ayrton> and my pass is correct
<Ayrton> but I'm getting this error
<Ayrton> whats happening?
<Bachstelze> Ayrton: you should have other messages
<Ayrton> Bachstelze, one sec, I will get the output in xchat
<Bachstelze> Ayrton: !pastebin it
<Ayrton> yes, I'm doing it
<Ayrton> Bachstelze, http://paste.ubuntu.com/551187/
<Ayrton> in the end, the gpg ask my pass
<Ayrton> in brazilian portuguese
<Bachstelze> Ayrton: looks loke there's a problem with gpg-agent; are you using it?
<Ayrton> Bachstelze, yes
<Ayrton> Bachstelze, the strange is some other things that I use works fine, showing the same error "gpg: problemas com o agente - desabilitando o uso do agente"
<Ayrton> I can use gpg --decrypt, for exemple
<Ayrton> I will think for 30 minutes and back again
<Ayrton> Bachstelze, the other strange thing is debbuild is generating the package
<batronix> I'm currently porting a application (http://www.progshop.com/shop/software/prog-express/download.html) to linux. How do I get an application to the ubuntu repositories when its finished?
<Bachstelze> batronix: since it would be a new package, the best way would be to get it into Debian, and then let it be synced to Ubuntu
<batronix> thx for the reply. How do i start to get into debian?
<evaluate> batronix, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages and http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ should give you all of the info you need
<evaluate> (or at least most of it :-)
<batronix> thx
<lifeless> there is also the appstore route
<lifeless> I don't recall the link for it ofhand
<jcfp> is popcon broken? seems all packages' scores haven't changed at all in weeks?
<bcurtiswx> im not even hungry and i read that as popcorn.. :(
<jcfp> so does google :/
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: do you need a sponsor for bug 654397 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 654397 in hamster-applet (Ubuntu Maverick) "Reports lack totals" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654397
<bdrung> tumbleweed: http://overbenny.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/libkibi-ready-for-testing/
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: well, it would be great to get it moving - I haven't subscribed -sponsors as I was waiting for -sru ack, but you can probably upload it and let them find it in the queue.
<ebroder> kklimonda: you know that ubuntu-sru changed their minds on that policy a while back, right?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: is there something to do after a MOTU-SWAT ACK (re vlc)?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: security sponsors should upload this one. I pinged sbeattie tomorrow.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: sorry, yesterday
<bdrung> ok, i will wait
<kklimonda> ebroder: changed their minds on what? on uploading packages to the queue before getting an ack?
<kklimonda> ebroder: if so I obviously have missed that memo :)
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: now ubuntu-sponsors handle SRUs
<ebroder> kklimonda: yeah, when the main and motu sru teams merged, they decided that you sponsor first, and sru ack second
<sbeattie> bdrung: I'll release vlc in a little bit, just want to do a bit of smoke checking the built packages.
<ebroder> it's somewhere on the SRU wiki page
<ari-tczew> If I'm not incorrent, ubuntu-sponsors handle almost all, beside backports
<ari-tczew> sbeattie: it build fine
<kklimonda> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<kklimonda> google is getting worse and worse, I couldn't find the direct link there :/
<kklimonda> ebroder: the procedure looks like "[...]then subscribe ubuntu-sru.
<kklimonda> 4. Upload the fixed package to release-proposed[...]"
<ebroder> kklimonda: right, but "wait for an ACK from ubuntu-sru" is not in there
<kklimonda> ebroder: I do vaguely remember someone wanting an ack from sru before uploading it (after the procedure has been changed)
<ari-tczew> ebroder, kklimonda: so this wiki sentence should be changed
<kklimonda> ebroder: I can only assume that it was simply a case of miscommunication, just after teams merging. And I've decided to play it on the safe side since then :)
<kklimonda> ebroder: so, in the new world of ubuntu-sru, I should subscribe both ubuntu-sru and ubuntu-sponsors, or should I just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors who are going to subscribe ubuntu-sru when they do the upload?
<ebroder> kklimonda: i'd say both, but i'm not entirely sure
<ari-tczew> ebroder: both
<kklimonda> ok, thanks
<ari-tczew> kklimonda, ebroder: who is free to change the wiki? ;)
<ari-tczew> change => update
<micahg> I don't think both is appropriate, it seems like subscribing -archive and -sponsors at the same time which is wrong
<kklimonda> ebroder, ari-tczew: it's there, at the end of 4th point actually: "If you need a sponsored upload, attach a debdiff to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, as usual. There is no need to wait before uploading."
<ari-tczew> micahg: archive?
<micahg> ubuntu-archive
<ari-tczew> micahg: I don't understand. where do you see archive?
<ebroder> micahg: not really. because the new process doesn't force a strict ordering between the SRU ACK and the sponsored upload
<micahg> ari-tczew: not thing case, speaking in general
<micahg> ebroder: well, they want to approve in queue, so it's being inserted into their workflow before it's actionable
<kklimonda> it has been added some time after new procedure has been written - I guess I should subscribe to the page to be up to date
<ebroder> micahg: i thought the wiki talked about sometimes getting an sru ack early in the process
<micahg> ebroder: yes, if it's a risky SRU, before the work is done
 * micahg can't find what he said anywhere :-/
<micahg> ah, it's there 2.3
<Bachstelze> I think it said to do it if the SRU will require a lot of work
<Bachstelze> so you don't do all the work for nothing if it gets rejected
<ari-tczew> how can I fix this FTBFS? http://paste.ubuntu.com/551224/
<micahg> ari-tczew: check the .install file for that file and see if the name changed and needs an updatey
<ari-tczew> micahg: there are several ,install files ;
<micahg> ari-tczew: dh_install tells you which one
<ari-tczew> micahg: ok, got it. debian/tmp/sbin/ocfs2_controld.cman usr/sbin/
<ari-tczew> sbin? huh, is it corrent?
<micahg> can be, depends on what it is
<ari-tczew> micahg: ok, do you can read what is wrong?
<ari-tczew> can you*
<micahg> ari-tczew: I don't have time to look at it, you need to see if the file has been renamed in the build, check the debian/tmp/ dir that's appropriate
<micahg> or if it's not being installed to the tmp dir for some reason
<ari-tczew> :(
<bdrung> tumbleweed: around?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-01-07
<bcurtiswx> quilt edit always says patch is located below debian/patches/
<bcurtiswx> how do I fix that?
<ebroder> are you trying to do something like "quilt edit debian/patches/my_new_awesome_patch.patch"?
<nomadium> bcurtiswx: with QUILT_PATCHES env var?
<bcurtiswx> ebroder, yes.  i have it pushed to that patch, and am trying to quilt edit
<bcurtiswx> yes i have that in my .bashrc
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: you use quilt edit to edit files in a patch. you use quilt create to make a new patch
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: quilt automatically works on the last patch that you pushed
<bcurtiswx> OK, so it will edit a chunk in a patch?
<bcurtiswx> ebroder, ^^
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: or create a new one as needed
<bcurtiswx> ebroder, ty
<bcurtiswx> ebroder, how would I delete a chunk from a patch?
<bcurtiswx> manually the only way?
<EagleScreen> I ma trying to create a natty enviroment with pbuilder in Debian testing, I get this: http://pastebin.ca/2039969
<EagleScreen> this is my pbuilderrc http://pastebin.ca/2039984
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, pbuilder-dist natty ?
<EagleScreen> bcurtiswx: I use sudo DIST=natty pbuilder create
<EagleScreen> how do I do it in your way?
<bcurtiswx> do you get the same error with pbuilder-dist natty create ?
<EagleScreen> yes bcurtiswx, the same
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, could be your pbuiderrc, comment the entire thing out and see if my command works then
<EagleScreen> bcurtiswx: the DEBOOTSTRAPOPTS= line?
<bcurtiswx> seems to be where your issues are.. so its a good start
<EagleScreen> bcurtiswx: the same for your command
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, try commenting out the entire pbuilderrc just to see if it is really something with that in the first place
<EagleScreen> ok
<EagleScreen> i will mv it
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, yes, didn't think of that
<EagleScreen> the same error
<EagleScreen> :(
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, pastebin plz
<EagleScreen> here is http://pastebin.ca/2039993
<ari-tczew> EagleScreen: have you got installed debian-archive-keyring ?
<EagleScreen> will check it, but shouldn't I need ubuntu-archive-keyring?
<EagleScreen> debian-archive-keyring is installed
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, is the ubuntu one installed?
<EagleScreen> ubuntu-archive-keyring (or ubuntu-keyring) isn't because it is not packaged in Debian
<EagleScreen> do I need it?
<EagleScreen> I can install it
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, its ubuntu-keyring
<bcurtiswx> got it ?
<EagleScreen> I have installed it
<EagleScreen> the same problem with sudo pbuilder-dist natty create
<bcurtiswx> patebin plz
<EagleScreen> ok -> http://pastebin.ca/2040000
<bcurtiswx> hmm, whats the version of the key ?
<EagleScreen> i have installed this one -> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/all/ubuntu-keyring/download
<EagleScreen> the same happens trying to create a maverick or lucid enviroment
<bcurtiswx> EagleScreen, you're running as root
<bcurtiswx> i don't usually
<EagleScreen> I always run pbuilder as root as the root tar.gz are stored out of home
<EagleScreen> sudo DIST=natty pbuilder create needs to be run as root
<EagleScreen> if I am not root, I get this: Error: Could not find "pbuilder".
<bcurtiswx> you have an interesting setup, hmm.  not sure how to help you from this point. sorry
<EagleScreen> thanks anyway
<ari-tczew> EagleScreen: I have installed debian-archive-keyring, not debian-keyring
<EagleScreen> I too, i ma installing now debian-keyring
<EagleScreen> remember that I am trying to create an ubuntu root in a Debian system
<ari-tczew> EagleScreen: try:  sudo pbuilder-dist natty create --debootstrapopts "--keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg"
<EagleScreen> same error
<ari-tczew> so I don't have an idea
<ari-tczew> EagleScreen: maybe wiki will be helpful for you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<EagleScreen> I was using '--keyring' '/usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg'  and the right option is "--keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg" in .pbuilderrc, not it works, but  sudo pbuilder-dist natty create --debootstrapopts "--keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg" doesn't
<ari-tczew> EagleScreen: so problem is fixeD?
<EagleScreen> yes if I use my old way
<Legendario> what should i do to package a software which upstream only releases the source as a zip package
<Legendario> ?
<micahg> Legendario: you can repack as tar.gz
<Legendario> micahg, thanks
<Legendario> :-)
<micahg> Legendario: you should make a get-orig-source rule to do it
<Legendario> micahg, how do i do that?
<micahg> Legendario: here's an example for svn http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi/Svn_get-orig-source, you just need to replace the svn checkout bits with code to download the .zip file and decompress it
<Legendario> thanks micahg
<Legendario> micahg, do you have an example with cdbs
<Legendario> ?
<micahg> Legendario: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball
<micahg> http://cdbs-doc.duckcorp.org/en/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id392217
<dholbach> good morning
<batronix> I've put a changelog file into the DEBIAN folder of my package and get a "W: ... unknown-control-file changelog" from lintian
<akheron> batronix: changelog doesn't go to DEBIAN, it goes to /usr/share/doc/yourpkg/
<akheron> you shouldn't copy these files by hand, use debhelper instead
<batronix> thank you. I'll take a look at debhelper.
<mok0> Jeez I am having a hell of a time trying to build a source package under bzr control
<mok0> this close to giving up on bzr
<mok0> I wish there was a source package format where you could define what you want to go in there and not rely on debuilds flawed logic
<Bachstelze> I've never worked bith bzr really but yeah, I'm not particularly eager to try
<Bachstelze> It really seems like just overhead to me
<mok0> Bachstelze: it is a convinient way to keep track of your changes
<Bachstelze> meh
<Bachstelze> debian/changelog is good enough for me
<mok0> But a.t.m. we have a whole range of tools and they are all getting on each other's toes
<Bachstelze> often I have just skipped over a package that I could have fixed because I don't really have the time to figure out how bzr works
<mok0> Bachstelze: yeah it's a problem
<mok0> Bachstelze: It would be very convienient, because you can check out and unpack the sources very easily. The really really dumb thing is that you _still_ need an .orig.tar.gz tarball like before.
<mok0> So why doesn
<mok0> t dpkg-buildpackage just check out the sources from bazaar instead of unpacking the tarball???
<mok0> My problem is that there are differences between upstream's bzr tree and the tarball that can be produced using "make dist"
<mok0> so dpkg-buildpackage tries to represent those differences, but they are _meaningless_
<mok0> If there was at least some way to say: only represent diffs in debian/ ignore the resst
<akheron> mok0: can't you repack the upstream's bzr tree as the orig.tar.gz?
<mok0> akheron: yes I could
<mok0> akheron: I will probably have to do that
<mok0> akheron: but it just illustrates how the tools work at cross-purposes
<mok0> akheron: and doing it that way means I have to extract the version number from configure.in
<mok0> grr
<akheron> but if you're packaging software that releases tarballs, why do you want to use the code in their bzr repo?
<akheron> if they were using git, would you use git-buildpackage?
<akheron> why don't you use your own favorite tool and the tarball?
<akheron> at least git-buildpackage supports working with the upstream tarballs so that your debian changes live in a different branch and when a new upstream version is released, you import it to your _packaging_ tree and merge accordingly
<akheron> the packaging git tree is completely separate from the upstream source tree
<mok0> akheron: they are not releasing tarballs
<akheron> ah
<mok0> akheron: but it's a gnu autotools project, so the easiest way to do it is to do "make dist"
<akheron> so won't your bzr tool do an upstream tarball for you then, without using make dist?
<akheron> at least git-buildpackage does
<akheron> it just takes the sources
<mok0> akheron: perhaps it can do that
<akheron> mok0: if it's an autotools project you should not ship ./configure or any generated stuff in the tarball
<akheron> and run autoreconf -f -i as the first thing when building
<mok0> akheron: well, yes, but...
<akheron> and depend on autoconf, automake and libtool (or whatever is needeD)
<mok0> that's not the autotools way
<akheron> it's the debian way if there are no tarballs
<akheron> (I think)
<mok0> akheron: make dist creates all you need to build the package, on ANY system
<akheron> so does "autoreconf -f -i; ./configure"
<mok0> akheron: true :-)
<mok0> akheron: I am doing that anyway :-)
<akheron> I've been struggling with this myself
<mok0> akheron: ... because upstream's version of libtool is causing problems
<mok0> *sigh*
<akheron> well, that's a different problem then :)
<mok0> akheron: my problem is getting bzr-builddeb to *run* in the first place
<mok0> akheron: which it doesn't because it complains about a whole bunch of changes that can't be represented in diff... changes which I don't _care_ about.
<akheron> what versions do you have with libtool?
<akheron> how can you bootstrap the autotools if there are problems with libtool?
<mok0> akheron: it seems the ltmain.sh shipped in the bzr repo is out-of-sync versionwise with some of the other tools...
<mok0> akheron: autoreconf -i -f fixes that
<akheron> why do they ship ltmain.sh?
<akheron> are there other generated files in the bzr repo too?
<mok0> akheron: don't know
<mok0> akheron: afair, yes
<akheron> sigh
<akheron> :)
<mok0> akheron: *sigh*
<akheron> do they depend on a certain version of some of these tools?
<mok0> akheron: I think the tools depend on the right versions of each other...
<akheron> yes but does the project require a specific version of e.g. libtool to build at all?
<akheron> or something like that
<mok0> akheron: no, I don't think so... I got an error message at some point... can't remember the exact circumstances... I just fixed it using -f -i
<mok0> akheron: I just continued with that and didn't do a post-mortem
<akheron> well, if autoreconf makes it work, why don't you just run autoreconf on build and be happy with a tarball that contains only the stuff in the bzr tree?
<mok0> akheron: it's definitely an option
<akheron> that would *not* work only if they required a specific version of some of the tools
<akheron> and that specific version is not available for ubuntu/debian
<mok0> akheron: they don't
<mok0> akheron: ... I think that is rather typical if you include the generated files in the repo
<mok0> because then, if upstream is ahead of you in terms of system upgrading, you are in trouble
<akheron> you mean they use never versions of the tools than you have available?
<mok0> akheron: yes
<mok0> akheron: newer macros and so on
<akheron> then you should get a "make dist" tarball on a system that has the new tools and not use the upstream bzr at all
<mok0> akheron: indeed
<mok0> akheron: anyway, thanks for the ping-pong. I am more relaxed now :-)
<akheron> np :)
<akoskm> Hi! How can I modify the java.library.path while I'm installing my package? I have precompiled native libraries (by ant) what I want to include their directory in java.library.path.
<BlackZ> ScottK: hello, can you please have a look at bug #697844 if you have time?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 697844 in maverick-backports "Please backport amsn 0.98.4-0ubuntu1 from Natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697844
<ScottK> Sure
<BlackZ> ScottK: thanks :)
<ScottK> Done
<evaluate> hello dapal :-)
<dapal> evaluate: moo :)
<dapal> evaluate: I just replied to your mail -- I read it before today, but I was quite tired, so I delayed it to tonight ;)
<evaluate> awesome. I'll read it right now.
<evaluate> dapal, could I PM you for a minute?
<dapal> yup
<tumbleweed> what actually is our policy on maintainer e-mail addresses for ubuntu-only packages? I see many REVU packages using ubuntu-developers as the maintainers, with the original packager as XBSC-O-M.
<tumbleweed> bdrung's recent update-maintainer change sets ubuntu-developers if the maintainer doesn't end in @ubuntu.com, is that the best approximation to our policy?
<siloxid> has there been any word recently of the ubuntu app center taking paid apps?  it seems like it was there for a short time and then got taken down
#ubuntu-motu 2011-01-08
<RoAkSoAx> correct me if I'm wrong, but when using grab-merge.sh it should not be applying patches in debian/patches, directly to the source right? Cause, when trying to debuild, it fails becuase it tries to apply a patch in debian/patches, but it has already been applied...
<ari-tczew> RoAkSoAx: look in patches created by MoM, are there .pc files?
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: nope
<ari-tczew> RoAkSoAx: I think that you should report a bug against MoM.
<ari-tczew> RoAkSoAx: and try merge manually
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: yeah it is gonna be a PITA given that it'
<RoAkSoAx> it's a big merge, and the changes forwarded to debian are still in the NEW queue :S
<RoAkSoAx> hhehe
<RoAkSoAx> anywayas, I'll work on that tomorrow
<ari-tczew> RoAkSoAx: PITA?
<ari-tczew> are you hungry?
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: I pm'd you with the  meaning
<ari-tczew> aha, ok cenzored
<RoAkSoAx> anyways, off for the day
<RoAkSoAx> later
<ari-tczew> cya
<bdrung> tumbleweed: thanks for https://code.launchpad.net/~stefanor/ubuntu-sponsoring/footer-styling/+merge/45574
<bdrung> tumbleweed: if you want to win a price: use for Statistics a three column layout (column1: Request types, column2: Target components, column3: Package Sets)
<stalcup> how does one configure the new ppa to uploads
<stalcup> does dput.cfg need edited?
 * stalcup misses the old school way
<hyperair> stalcup: you can still use the old school way, like i do.
<stalcup> awesome
<hyperair> stalcup: global dput.cf has an entry that allows the ppa: syntax
<stalcup> hyperair: mind pasting your config?
<ebroder> stalcup: http://pastebin.com/68mq6Ete is what you need
<hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/104033/
<stalcup> thanks ebroder and hyperair
<hyperair> np
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, 3 column does look better
<Wallch_Developer> Hi!! Can anyone tell me why package Wallch (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch) went from needs review to needs work without a comment to what we need to fix... ?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: wow, that looks nice.
<bdrung> can a motu swat team unsubscribe the team from bug #690173?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690173 in VLC media player "Memory corruption in RealMedia parsing" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690173
<bdrung> tumbleweed: maybe adding colons to "Type column" would be good
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: hi, I'll be your AM as you move through NM. a mail from me shortly will follow to get you started.
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: oh, nice to see you act as AM :)
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: I was tempted to say "good news: you've been reassigned an AM. bad news, you're my first applicant"
<DktrKranz> heh
<pmjdebruijn> hi
<pmjdebruijn> I'm packaging a cmake app, and the basic stuff is automated by debhelper 7
<pmjdebruijn> however, I do need to make a parameter to cmake
<pmjdebruijn> how can I do that without manually creating an entire rules file
<pmjdebruijn> are there any variables I can set/override
<debfx> pmjdebruijn: you need to add a override_dh_auto_configure target to debian/rules
<pmjdebruijn> thanks
<pmjdebruijn> seems to work actually
<pmjdebruijn> :)
<pmjdebruijn> just found it online too
<pmjdebruijn> debfx: thanks for your time
<debfx> you're welcome :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Pong, but make it quick as I have to go in a minute.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: about backports: for lucid I have to add one change. how can I do it? add a a patch to sponsor in backports?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: If it's a package you have upload rights for, you can upload to lucid-backports and I can review it in the queue.  If not, you'll need to get it sponsored.  The approval process via a bug in lucid-backports is the same.
<ScottK> Back later.
<ari-tczew> ok thnx
<kshadeslayer> hi, im trying to compile kdepim 4.5.94 in  natty and get this : http://paste.ubuntu.com/551950/
<kshadeslayer> for some reason dpkg-buildpackage is trying to run make before CMake
<kshadeslayer> any ideas?
<ari-tczew> kshadeslayer: check debian/rules from clementine, it uses Cmake as well
<kshadeslayer> ari-tczew: the point here being? .... ive seen alot of packages using CMake ... just never encountered dpkg-buildpackage jumping off to make before CMake
<bdrung> ari-tczew: do you have plans for bringing clementine to debian?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: This is good question. There is a clementine packed by another person, but not yet in Debian archive. why you ask?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: because you referred to clementine. then i checked if it is in debian.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: and this guy has troubles with getting clementine to archive.
<ari-tczew> kshadeslayer: d/rules which you sent on pastebin is all?
<ari-tczew> kshadeslayer: which debhelper do you use?
<ari-tczew> udienz: you're crazy man
<udienz> ari-tczew, :D
<kshadeslayer> ari-tczew: yes ... and the debhelper which is in natty
<kshadeslayer> ari-tczew: im going to sleep ... will continue tomorrow
<udienz> ari-tczew, new record. one day 10 packages
<kshadeslayer> 0.o
<kshadeslayer> night all
<udienz> kshadeslayer, night
<ari-tczew> kshadeslayer: I asked which version
<ari-tczew> 5 / 7 / 8 ?
<bdrung> udienz: 10 packages? it's easy to upload 10 package in one day (do a big transition with many rebuilds). ;)
<udienz> :D
<ari-tczew> lucas__: is it possible to rebuild again natty to show FTBFS in udd.d.o? now should shows also FTBFS with python 2.7
<geser> ari-tczew: dodo is doing an archive rebuild of main in LP currently
<ari-tczew> geser: doko you mean?
<geser> ari-tczew: sure, yes
<geser> ari-tczew:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110107-natty.html
<udienz> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110107
<ari-tczew> geser: udd shows also output of FTBFS which is helpful
<ari-tczew> geser: heh, would be nice to run rebuild on universe as well
<psusi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ubiquity/natty/revision/346 says it does a bunch of things, including merge from the maverick-redesign branch... but this does not appear to be a merge commit... what gives?
<ebroder> psusi: look at the vcs-bzr for the package
<psusi> ebroder, so this was a merge, that was not a merge?  i.e. they just applied the upstream diff and committed, instead of doing a bzr merge from it?
<ebroder> psusi: the ~ubuntu-branches branches are auto-generated. if ev is maintaining ubiquity in a different branch, that's not necessarily reflected in ~ubuntu-branches
<ebroder> did you look at the other branch to see if there was a merge there?
<psusi> does it matter if there was a merge there?  my question is why the ubuntu branch does not show a merge
<psusi> hrm.. auto generated eh?
<ebroder> right
<wgrant> ari-tczew: We'll be doing a universe rebuild later this week, probably.
<wgrant> ari-tczew: We're just waiting on some more disk space to be installed.
<ebroder> psusi: unless a developer takes explicit action to do otherwise, the lp:ubuntu/foo branches are created by basically fetching each uploaded revision of a package and checking it into bzr
<psusi> ohh... so the auto generator isn't pulling from the real branch, but instead just auto commits each new source package upload?
<ebroder> psusi: it's clever enough to deal with merges from debian, and new upstream revisions, but not that much else on its own
<psusi> I see
<ari-tczew> wgrant: could you fix headers in the table on the page http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=natty&list=ALL ?
<ari-tczew> wgrant: IMO use of udd script is good idea. in that way developers can easy find similiar FTBFS'
<wgrant> ari-tczew: Sure, I might be able to set up the UDD script. But this was just what I did at 1am to get *something* up.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-01-09
<ari-tczew> how can I restore ssh private key?
<ebroder> ...restore? as in you lost it?
<psusi> define restore... restore from backup?
<ari-tczew> ebroder, psusi: after change gnome -> kde, any software couldn't find my ssh key
<ari-tczew> e.g. filezilla
<ari-tczew> now bzr always asks me for password :/
<ebroder> ari-tczew: your private key is in ~/.ssh/id_rsa. you just need to get the password into kwallet, presumbly
<psusi> I always get prompted for my key pass... I don't use ssh-agent or anything
<ari-tczew> ebroder: it seems to normal software to store of password, not for handle passwords for bzr, or am I wrong?
<ebroder> ari-tczew: it's not a bzr password. it's an ssh key password that bzr uses. and it does store those
<ari-tczew> ebroder: and kwalletmanager will remember my password for ssh?
<ebroder> i don't know that for sure, but i believe so. certainly gnome-keyring can
<ebroder> err, note that it's not storing an ssh password, it's storing an ssh *key* password
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I don't see a way to set ssh pass in kwalletmanager :/
<ebroder> ari-tczew: sorry, then. i can't really guess any more about how kde works. maybe ask in #kubuntu or something?
<pting> is there a way to use debuild to build multiple architectures in one go? passing in -a multiple times doens't seem to have the desired effect
<pting> i'm having trouble adding the generated deb packages with reprepro as the sha values are different.. specifically create packages for nginx
<lajjr> james_w, are you online??
<paissad> is it possible to know the version of a previous package before upgrading ? .. i need it in my postinst script
<Laney> $2 afaik
<paissad> ok
<Laney> http://wiki.debian.org/MaintainerScripts
<paissad> Laney, isn't $2 the new version to install ?
<Laney> possibly
<Laney> check those diagrams
<paissad> hmm, dh_link does not support symlinks of directories ?
<paissad> http://dpaste.com/300237/
<paissad> man dh_link does not specify a specific option or rules i should use to avoid such a problem
<ari-tczew> is it OK to add new patch system to package to use new patch?
<ari-tczew> IIRC we should patch files directly if there is no patch system
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: this rule applies only to SRU afair in which case you are to prepare the minimal possible diff.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: is it clear on any wiki?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: I don't know but adding a patch system is not more intrusive than making an update. The risk of diverging from debian package are similar.
<kklimonda> is similar*
<ari-tczew> I'm pretty sure that we shouldn't add patch system. It's a place for Debian maintainer. I'm just making sure, so waiting for an answer from several devs.
<geser> it's prefered to not add a patch system if not already in use
<geser> especially when the package is already patched (directly) which causes only a mix
<ari-tczew> geser: I'm reviewing several barry's patches and he is adding patch system for one small patch. Packages are clean from Debian.
<ari-tczew> clean = unchanged
<kklimonda> imo the cost of additional delta is a low price to pay for advantages of not applying patches directly -- more verbose patch description (with tags like Forwarded, and Bug-*) plus easier maintainance (but that may be just my preference).
<ari-tczew> barry don't want change his branches to patch files directly. if I won't sponsor his changes, someone else from Canonical will do it tomorrow.
<ari-tczew> it means that Canonical like don't respect rules
<kklimonda> I don't think this particular rule has been written in stone. I haven't seen it anywhere (other than mentioning that you shouldn't add patch system if the package is already patching files directly)
<geser> I don't remember seeing it written down somewhere either
<geser> it also depends on the size of the patches
<geser> for a simple one-line change introducing a patch system is IMHO overkill as the addition of the patch system is bigger than the change itself
<kklimonda> there is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#Patching%20other%20people%27s%20packages but it's ambiguos imo.
<geser> but if you e.g. need to autoreconf then adding a patch system is a good idea
<ari-tczew> geser: autoreconf runs via debian/rules
<ari-tczew> so there is no place for 99_* patch.
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: anyway, as you have said, the merge is going to accepted anyway so, if it's the only reservation you have about it, I see no reason to hold it. imo it's not big enough issue (actually, imo it's not an issue at all) to discuss at this time -- you may consider starting a discussion to get the policy straight in this regard.
<kklimonda> starting a discussion on u-d*
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: great! First applicant means you'll have the energy to drive my NM application thorugh in record time, right? :)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: maybe you could give a feedback: what do you think about adding patch systems?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I'd say it depends on the complexity of the patch. I wouldn't add one for a simple patch
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: case: https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/ubuntu/natty/libfso-glib/618809-ftbfs/+merge/45579
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I accepted a previous similar fix by barry that was done like that. It's a very trivial patch, but adding simple-patchsys is about as invasive as putting the patch in debian/applied-patches.
<tumbleweed> his changelog entries could be a little more complete
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: as you can read comments, I pinged him to improve d/changelog, he added info about d/rules.
<ari-tczew> I think that he should add also information about libtool
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: so you agree with adding patch system?
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: of course. can you please re-send that mail GPG-signed? (all the mail during the NM process should be signed, see my welcome mail)
<tumbleweed> re libtool: yeah, probably, it'll help future mergers. re patch sys: I don't mind it.
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: it wasn't signed? /me slaps mutt
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: the version in my Sent box is signed
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: wait, nevermind, my mail client was munging the siggy.
<lfaraone> aha, I reloaded the message and now it works.
<nigelb> 42
<ari-tczew> 43
<nigelb> hrm, there was supposed to be /ws before that, sorry.
<ari-tczew> :P
<micahg> kklimonda: that wiki is pretty clear, don't change the patch system
<ari-tczew> micahg: not change, add
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's in the first line (or lack thereof)
<kklimonda> micahg: I disagree - I read it as "don't change the patch system if there is one in place, or if there isn't one in place (i.e. pathes are applied directly)"
<micahg> kklimonda: huh? what's the difference between that and what I said?
<kklimonda> micahg: in the mentioned merge there is no patch system, and there are no patches applied to the source.
<ari-tczew> yes, barry want to add patch system and small patch on unmodified packages
<ari-tczew> micahg: what about uploads where patch system has been added?
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: P&P 1 mailed, your move. :P
<DktrKranz> new chess game? :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: leave it I guess, but it should be dropped at the next merge unless there's a good reason like geser suggested
<micahg> ari-tczew: don't sponsor something you're not comfortable with, if someone else wants to do something that goes against policy, that's their problem, not yours
<micahg> ari-tczew: reference the wiki WRT the patch system situation
<micahg> hopefully that patch system issue will go away soon with source format 3 after squeeze releases
<tumbleweed> well, source format 3 isn't mandatory
<ari-tczew> micahg: not all packages will switch to 3.0 source format
<tumbleweed> hopefully most will switch
<micahg> most will, the only thing blocking that at the moment is the squeeze freeze, about 1/3 of Debian has converted
<tumbleweed> 3.0 native packages will still have the same problems, though
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: which problems>
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: no built in patch system
<ari-tczew> micahg: do you will file a report about breaking policy by tumbleweed?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: eh?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I didn't say that you're breaking a policy - adding patch system.
<cybertron> hello again, i try to build a package and I got everytime the same error
<cybertron> dh_usrlocal debian/foobar/test.jpg is not a dicrectory
<kklimonda> contrary to popular belief, when computers are concerned, repeating steps do not yield different results every time you try ;)
<cybertron> it only works if i dont use my files ;D
<hakermania> Any reviewer who uses GNOME please have a look at: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch    Thank you
<ari-tczew> RainCT: are you able to upload gbrainy 1.61 to Debian? unstable/experimental?
<RainCT> ari-tczew: Yes
<ari-tczew> RainCT: great thanks!
<RainCT> ari-tczew: I uploaded 1.60 yesterday. Where did you get a 1.61?
<ari-tczew> RainCT: ah this it only NEWS file, sorry for my fire. http://git.gnome.org/browse/gbrainy/commit/?id=d232e6056bec15105162dff2924494fc61ecc87f
<chrisccoulson> is anybody interested in taking some items from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Natty/Firefox4/XULRunner20Transition ?
<chrisccoulson> it's the cause of a few build failures on http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: would be nice if you give a tutorial how to do transition
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, that's pretty difficult due to the amount of changes. the best way is to look at some of the packages that i've already ported
<chrisccoulson> however, there is a lot of mozilla documentation that helps already
<chrisccoulson> eg, https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XPCOM/XPCOM_changes_in_Gecko_2.0
<ari-tczew> I'd like to help with that. However, I have no free time. :(
<dapal> evaluate: ping? :)
<dapal> evaluate: since we haven't uploaded cmsmadesimple yet, why -2 instead of re-doing -1? ;)
<evaluate> dapal, hello. Well, I don't know actually, I thought it might be good to see that there is a new version. If you want I can redo a -1 though...
<evaluate> dapal, I'm used to this since working with mentors.d.o, caus it wouldn't let me upload the same version again...
<dapal> evaluate: sure it does -- it'll just complain about an "existing orig.tar.gz", but it's just a warning ;)
<evaluate> ok. So should I repackage it again as -1?
<dapal> no need for now. If the package is ok, I could just "mangle" it to only show -1
<dapal> I'll send the diff of my changes, so you can include them in your $vcs ;)
<evaluate> dapal, cool.
<evaluate> btw, I have also set up some stuff in the postinst file, to change the user/group and permissions of some files that need to be writable by the scripts
<evaluate> also, just FTR, I have installed it and made a couple of changes, and it worked fine for me.
<dapal> ok, what changes were those?
<evaluate> logged into admin, changed some contents, text, basic stuff like that
<evaluate> and I don't mean installed as in apt-get install, but I created a symlink from /var/www/cmsms to /usr/share/cmsmadesimple and then went to localhost/cmsms and installed the script itself...
<evaluate> the only stuff I'm not really sure about is that postinst file and the patch (not sure if that is the preffered way, as it's a bit ugly...)
<dapal> ok, so, a couple of comments
<dapal> it's ok if you provide a symlink like the one you did, in the package (debian/links or debian/cmsmadesimple.links)
<dapal> the patch seems OK-ish
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: P&P II in your inbox.
<dapal> i.e. maybe there's a better way to do it
<dapal> evaluate: I'm dubious about the postinst. You could just add /etc/cmsmadesimple to debian/dirs, and touch the file in debian/rules
<evaluate> thing is, the only two ways I can think of to make Smarty find that file is either this way, changing it to an absolute path, or including the path into the php PATH, and I think this is much prettier...
<dapal> evaluate: the same holds for the rest of postinst. Please do all that inside debian/rules, overriding the install target (doing everything _after_ files have been installed in debian/tmp/...)
<evaluate> hmm. I'd still have to do the chmod and chown stuff in the postinst though, wouldn't I?
<dapal> evaluate: nope, you can in rules
<dapal> evaluate: www-data is a system user, and its uid is well defined, so there's no chance your uid could be different from mine ;)
<evaluate> dapal, yeah, that makes sense.
<dapal> evaluate: and, the apache.conf.. I thought it was an actual snippet, not a tutorial :) -- it would be better if you called it /usr/share/doc/cmsmadesimple/README.apache, or kinda
<dapal> (at least, I've seen those kind of files more or less named like that)
<evaluate> Although I'm not sure about that symlink (if you referred to the /var/www/cmsms) one. I don't think anyone would bother installing this on a machine that's not a server that can be publicly accessed. And when they do that, they'd have to configure apache.conf anyway, so I'm not sure the symlink would be of any benefit...
<evaluate> dapal, well, that's what I seen the wordpress guys do, so I thought it was ok to name it like that. I'll rename it though if you want.
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: I see :)
<dapal> re the symlink: sure, it's just a "bonus", you're choice really :) -- re the filename, it's clearer, seeing a file named "apache.conf" I'd be tempted to cp it ;)
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: there goes that movie I intended watching tonight...
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: relax, it'll be there in the morning.
<evaluate> dapal, yup, makes sense. Ok then, so to sum it up: move postinst stuff to dirs and rules, rename apache.conf, rename it to -1. Anything else? :-)
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: :)
<dapal> evaluate: let me check :)
<evaluate> sure :-)
<dapal> evaluate: (also remove postrm, obviously)
<dapal> evaluate: mmhh. The apache2 | httpd dependency.
<dapal> evaluate: ok, nothing, it just needs httpd, not httpd-cgi :)
<evaluate> well, the thing is that the user might also create other files in that folder (like .htaccess or stuff like that) and then when he does "apt-get purge" that folder wouldn't get removed. I've created the postrm file to assure that the folders get deleted when the user does purge the package...
<dapal> evaluate: uhm, ok
<dapal> evaluate: for the patch, there's DEP-3 ;)
<evaluate> I'm not sure what you mean
<dapal> evaluate: ah, all those things you're removing in debian/rules -- you can just list them in debian/clean (it doesn't work for removing directories though)
<dapal> evaluate: the patch description, http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<evaluate> ok, will change the patch
<dapal> evaluate: then it's just fine.
<evaluate> re moving the stuff from rules to clean, I see that clean runs before dh_install runs. I need to run dh_install so that it puts my files in the respective folders, so that I have what to remove
<dapal> evaluate: that's a non-issue ;) -- the files that aren't in any package could just be removed before installing
<dapal> however, that's ok, no problem. Please go :)
<evaluate> ok, let's see :p
<evaluate> dapal, btw, do I have to build-depend on quilt if I have patches?
<dapal> evaluate: nope, source format 3.0 (quilt) will take care of that
<evaluate> ok, cool :-)
<evaluate> The thing that I liked about the postinst file though, was that it wouldn't bug the user if he wants to overwrite his config.php file with my empty one (because I would only "touch" it), whereas if I do this in the rules file, there would be this issue, wouldn't it?
<evaluate> dapal, ^
<dapal> (yes, I was thinking)
<evaluate> ok :-)
<evaluate> I'm taking a smoke, brb in 5
<dapal> evaluate: ok, go for the postinst :)
<dapal> evaluate: smoking is bad. :P
<evaluate> yes, I know that...
<evaluate> anyway, should I leave the postinst file like it is then?
<dapal> evaluate: /etc/cmsmadesimple/, put it in debian/dirs
<dapal> evaluate: also, chmod to 660, no need to make them executable :)
<dapal> evaluate: and the for loop, you can move that in rules
<evaluate> well, the folders need to be executable, don't they?
<dapal> evaluate: config.php isn't a folder :D
<dapal> yes, the folders 770
<evaluate> I mean the folders in the for loop
<evaluate> ok
<dapal> heh, before I meant "chmod config.php to 660"
<dapal> ;)
<evaluate> dapal, ok, done. Link is the same
<evaluate> dapal, btw, I guess you noticed that clipit got uploaded :-D
<dapal> evaluate: yup :) -- I'm a bit tired for today, almost going to bed. To avoid mistakes, I'd prefer having a last look tomorrow :)
<evaluate> sure, no hurry :-)
<evaluate> I'll read you tomorrow then. Have a good night!
<dapal> thanks, you too :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-01-02
<Alison_Chaiken> Greetings all.    I uploaded tarballs for a package I created to oneiric on launchpad.
<Alison_Chaiken> They didn't build, so newb that I am, I deleted all the files that I created and started over.
<Alison_Chaiken> Now when I try to upload a new version, I get the message "foo-1.0.debian.tar.gz already exists but uploaded version has different contents."
<Alison_Chaiken> So I went to launchpad and deleted package foo from the PPA and tried again.
<Alison_Chaiken> Unfortunately I get the same error message and am not sure what to do.
<Alison_Chaiken> Maybe I can just manually bump the version number of my package and all will be well?
<Alison_Chaiken> I guess that those tarballs, once created, should never be touched by the user?
<micahg> Alison_Chaiken: you cannot upload the same revision twice, you'll want to bump the Debian revision of the package for subsequent uploads of the same original tarball
<Alison_Chaiken> I can just find one of the debian/* files that has a counter in it and increment it?   Or just "touch" one of the package files to generate a new revision?
<micahg> Alison_Chaiken: it comes from debian/changelog
<Alison_Chaiken> Very good, then,    I will edit that file and bump the revision.    I take it that in fact, I should never delete those tarballs in the parent directory once they're created, as this kind of problem always results?
<micahg> the "upstream" tarballs, should really be upstream releases if possible, so they're only generated once
<micahg> if there is no upstream release, you probably want a native package (i.e. debian/source/format contains 3.0 (native))
<Alison_Chaiken> Very good, micahg, I appreciate your help!
<Alison_Chaiken> Yes, I think I have a native package format.    Should that format suppress this problem?
<micahg> Alison_Chaiken: here's package versioning explained in the Debian policy manual: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
<Alison_Chaiken> Thanks again, micahg, I'll go RTFM.
<Resistance> is there a way to force the downgrade of a package?  i'm implementing (on one of my systems) a fork of a program that exists in another PPA I have, but the PPA that is currently implemented has a higher version number.  How can I tell the thing to use the older version of the package (sitting in another PPA, given that I removed the PPA with the higher version from apt sources)?
<lifeless> Resistance: apt-get install foo=version
<lifeless> Resistance: or use synaptic or aptitude
<artfwo> cyphermox, are you around?
<cyphermox> artfwo: yup
<artfwo> cyphermox, i resubmitted the merge proposal with fix for bug 910736, but now this results in a huge diff of 114042 lines
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 910736 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "Add ignore rule for Arduino to udev blacklist" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/910736
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> that's because all there is in ~modemmanager is a debian/ directory
<cyphermox> but I'll just take the debdiff and apply that, it will be simpler
<artfwo> ah, so that's ready for sponsoring now?
<cyphermox> artfwo: let me check
<artfwo> cyphermox, i have attached an old-style debdiff to the original bug report, that doesn't touch files outside of debian/ just in case
<artfwo> previous debdiffs done with bzr diff -rbranch had patches applied, 'cause the patches were applied in the packaging branch too
<jtaylor> tumbleweed, ScottK: can you to apply the patch in bug 910922 to debian via team upload? would save a delta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 910922 in pyparsing (Ubuntu) "switch to dh_python2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/910922
<jtaylor> checked that patch, still works fine
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: it's preferable to run changes like that past the package maintainer (although it doesn't look like he's maintaining that one very actively)
<ScottK> jtaylor: When DPMT is just in uploaders, stuff like that should really be done by the maintainer.  I'd email him.
<jtaylor> k
<jtaylor> what happend here oO https://launchpadlibrarian.net/88930822/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.libqxt_0.6.1-3ubuntu1.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> it worked in precise
<psusi> is there someone around who can update ubotu?  his raid factoid points to the lvm howto on tldp.org... the one on the ubuntu wiki may be more appropriate
<Laney> we should put syncpackage on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New
<Laney> and "read your changesfiles"
<Laney> by "we" i mean "not me"
 * Laney runs away really fast
<broder> Laney: huh, i've never seen that wiki page before
 * micahg has to remember to add a note about dch multi-maintainer mode (-m)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> well done new devs
<broder> is poppy the sftp upload interface, or something else?
<broder> (i'm trying to figure out how the backports pocket *actually* works right now)
<tumbleweed> IIRC it's the upload receiver (sftp or ftp)
<broder> ok, good. so that would be the code path i want to be tracking down
<Resistance> can someone reset the sftp on launchpad's ppa uploaders, its constantly throwing those errors saying Upload denied, when in fact it is actually uploading
<micahg> Resistance: that's a known bug that I thought I've given you the number to
<Resistance> i have the bug info
<Resistance> but is there a way to stop it throwing the errors every upload?
<Resistance> i know its intermittent, but meh
<Laney> it's server side
<Laney> so not much you, or we, can do about it unfortunately
<Resistance> bleh
<Resistance> *looks at the bug*
<Resistance> looks like someone had some branch or something included on that bug... a related branch...
<Resistance> i take it there's still no resolution at this time?
<Laney> you'd be better off asking in #launchpad, but if there were news i would expect it to be on the bug
<Resistance> yeah i'm subscribed to the bug
<Resistance> :p
<Resistance> someone just posted saying it also happens to them, although i dont think we need any more of those comments :P
<chrisccoulson> it's also seriously annoying, because it makes it look like all of my automated uploads are failing
<chrisccoulson> when they aren't ;)
<Resistance> mhm
#ubuntu-motu 2012-01-03
<Resistance> if a package is submitted without the debian/copyright, will the build fail?
<Resistance> hypothetically
<Resistance> (in PPA)
<StevenK> It will not.
<StevenK> But that's bad, fix that.
<Resistance> indeed
<StevenK> Actually, it might.
 * StevenK paws at debhelper
<broder> i think it will build
<Resistance> but of course, omitting the file is bad form
<Resistance> but its a hypothetical nonetheless :P
<StevenK> dh_installdocs may fail
<broder> no, it unfortunately checks to make sure the file exists
<StevenK> s/un//
<broder> i'd rather it failed
<Resistance> personally i agree with you, broder, it should fail if that file isnt included
<StevenK> If it wasn't a PPA, it would get kicked out of NEW pretty damn quick.
<Resistance> mhm
<broder> you know, you say that, but i recently fixed a universe package that had a debian/copyright file, but didn't install it
<Resistance> heh
<broder> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/tags/no-debian-copyright.html
<Resistance> broder:  well the project that wants their package without a debian/copyright comes with a docs/LICENSE file...
<Resistance> *shrugs*
<Resistance> but debian/copyright *SHOULD* be included
<broder> "(80 packages, 80 tags, plus 1 overrides)"
<Resistance> broder:  question regarding debian/install
<Resistance> i take it any extraneous blank lines in the debian/install file will cause it to error?
<Resistance> for whoever writes the install file to be able to see the different directories being installed in their own respective chunks
<Resistance> whats the command to update the pbuilder chroot?
<Resistance> or i should say, the pbuilder tarballs for each release of Ubuntu (lucid, natty, etc.)
<Zhenech_> pbuilder --update?
<Resistance> i'll  try that next
<Resistance> fwiw, my pbuilder base tarballs are about a year old
<Resistance> i might just rebuild them
<jtaylor> how does one get gcc not to crash all the time in qemu armel pbuilder ...
<gnuvince_> Is there a document that would give a way to "follow" a Debian package?  I'm on the UbuntuGIS packaging team, and we follow the development of DebianGIS packages.  I'm looking for a way to maintain our own changes while still making it easy to import the changes made by DebianGIS.  They use git, so I thought of using that, but I cannot come up with a repo structure that would make it easy to pull their changes and make our own.
<Laney> gnuvince_: the best way is to not have to make any changes, and just join the Debian team. If some changes are essential then you can track them as Ubuntu specific branches in Debian's git repository (or host it elsewhere). Or you could set up Launchpad imports of their branches and keep your changes as bzr branches of those on LP somewhere, if you like bzr.
<Laney> Really the best thing is to work with the Debian team directly as much as you can.
<psusi> gnuvince_: what do you mean "structure"?  you just pull and git merges their changes
<gnuvince_> Laney: so the best Ubuntu package is an unmodified Debian package?
<Laney> absolutely
<Zhenech_> and the best Ubuntu is Debian *duck*
<Laney> but if you can't avoid changes then still working with the Debian maintainers is great
<Laney> technically psusi is right though: it's easy to keep Ubuntu changes on a git branch and merge with the Debian branch whenever you need to.
 * Laney pats Zhenech_ 
<Alison_Chaiken> Hey jtaylor, my packages now install in a clean Qemu-kvm: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/99725460@N00/6629492495/in/photostream
<Alison_Chaiken> Hmm, I get a directory /debian with two files in it afterward.
<Alison_Chaiken> Oh well, the binary does run as expected, the headers do install.   Progress is being made!
<gnuvince_> I also have a question about the changelog file
<Alison_Chaiken> And my lintian is almost clean.    It didn't complain about those /debian files in the package.
<Alison_Chaiken> Thanks so much to geser, amitch, wgrant and jtaylor for their ultrapatient help.   You are true ubuntu-motu.
<gnuvince_> Let's say I need to update a package for lucid, natty and oneiric.  How should I manange the changelog file?  Should I remove the information that I built for natty when i build for oneiric?
<jtaylor> gnuvince_: each package gets its own fork of the changelog
<jtaylor> oneiric does not need to know about natty sru's
<psusi> each branch gets its own changelog... when you merge from one to the other, you will probably need to do some manual merging of the changelog
<gnuvince_> ok
<Laney> that is why we have dpkg-mergechangelogs
<gnuvince_> So would a good way of packaging be to take the git repo of Debian, make branches for lucid, natty, oneiric, etc. and maintain the changelog in those branches?
<gnuvince_> Or is there a simpler way?
<jtaylor> thats pretty much the simplest way
<gnuvince_> ok
<gnuvince_> What aout sharing those branches with other UbuntuGIS developers?
<jtaylor> git clone?
<jtaylor> pull/fetch etc
<jtaylor> collaboration is pretty much was git is built for, you'll have a hard time finding a better tool
<gnuvince_> Do they need to clone from me, or can they clone from DebianGIS and pull the branches from me?
<gnuvince_> (I'm more of an hg guy)
<psusi> either way
<jtaylor> as long as all repos have the same ancestry (which they will unless you screw up bad) it does not matter who pulls from whom
<jtaylor> of course the ubuntu branches will ahve to be pulled from you unless you also get the hosted in debiants git
<psusi> most people prefer to set up a central repo hosted somewhere for the group to all clone from and work on your branches, then you can also fetch from the debian repo and merge into your branches when appropriate, then push back to the central repo
<gnuvince_> So that'd go [ DebianGIS ] ---> [ UbutnuGIS ] <---> [ UbuntuGIS Devs] ?
<psusi> yea
<gnuvince_> ok
<achiang> when is the next auto-sync from debian/testing?
<psusi> of course, the line between debiangis and ubuntugis doesn't need to be one way either, the debian devs can pull from ubuntugis
<psusi> you can do it just about any way you like with git... an ubuntugis dev can pull directly from a debiangis dev's repo.. or an ubuntugis dev can push to ubuntugis repo, and another ubuntugis dev can pull from it, then email patches to a debiangis dev to apply to his repo and push to debiangis
<EvilResistance> is there any way to create a pbuilder base tarball for precise?  putting pbuilder --create --distribution precise errors out
<Ampelbein> "Errors out" isn't an error message.
<Ampelbein> ;-)
<EvilResistance> one sec
<Ampelbein> EvilResistance: I would use the pbuilder-dist script in ubuntu-dev-tools, it is a very easy wrapper to support multiple distributions.
<Ampelbein> But generally, it should work with pure pbuilder, of course.
<EvilResistance> https://pastebin.com/BSfQT7Qc  <-- that's the errors
<EvilResistance> and i have that installed so...
<jtaylor> just symlink the script of a different distro to that name
<jtaylor> their all the same
<Ampelbein> EvilResistance: what jtaylor says, if you are running natty or earlier.
<EvilResistance> yeah i'm on natty, it has oneiric though, strangely enough :/
<Ampelbein> EvilResistance: because on natty, oneiric was the next devel release.
<Ampelbein> Current stable includes a script to stable+1
<EvilResistance> oic
<EvilResistance> wth the debootstrap scripts for everything still point to a gutsy one o.O
<blair> Thanks for everyones help, the package I was interested in getting into 12.04 got in this last week via Debian :)
<Laney> yay
<micahg> great
<jtaylor> what do I do when a SRU fails to build on one arch?
<Laney> did it build before?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> libqxt, some armel symbol issue, I don't really get why it failed in the oneiric-proposed but worked in precise
<jtaylor> sru did only install some extra files
<Laney> i guess it really ought to be fixed, not sure what the sru team would say though
<broder> jtaylor: but it didn't build before the sru on armel either
<broder> for similar reasons
<jtaylor> what oO
<jtaylor> gna I'm blind
<broder> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libqxt/0.6.1-3ubuntu1/+build/2809334
<jtaylor> well then its no regression and fine?
<broder> i'd say so
<micahg> umm, why not just updated the symbols file for armel?
<jtaylor> that would be possible, I just can't test it because I fail to get a armel chroots to work
<jtaylor> gcc always crashes :/
<jtaylor> say it would have built on armel before, what would be the route to fix that?
<jtaylor> just upload another fix to -proposed?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> but it looks fixable anyway if you look at the changes in -5
<jtaylor> yes, but the diff there does match the diff in the log
<jtaylor> I'd like to try it but ...
<jtaylor> I wonder why it worked in precise without that
<Laney> the Debian changelog says why
<jtaylor> Fix symbols files for some architectures.? it doesn't tell me :(
<jtaylor> precise does not have -5
<Laney> no, this
<Laney> +override_dh_makeshlibs:
<Laney> +	dh_makeshlibs -- -c0
<Laney> makes it not fail
<micahg> right, but don't we want a proper symbols file on the arch?
<Laney> there is still a diff in the logs if you see
<Laney> I am not saying that is what you should do, just explaining why it doesn't fail any more
<jtaylor> the sru has that too? is that a new flag in precise?
<Laney> in -4
<jtaylor> ah, I'm slow today ._.
<Laney> jtaylor: if you are fixing it, it looks like there might be a mistake in libqxt-gui0.symbols line 75-76 in -5 though
<jtaylor> yes I saw
<jtaylor> I'll wait until the maintainer sorts it out and merge it to precise
<Laney> does he know?
<jtaylor> probably, I'll mail him
<Laney> isn't a blocker though because -- -c0 is still there
<Laney> more appropriate for the sru
<jtaylor> oO why does quilt recommend citadell now
<jtaylor> ... it recomends a mta for some little script in share
<Laney> er, I see it as a suggests
<Laney> oh, not released yet
<Laney> will be in -2
<jtaylor> a nice
#ubuntu-motu 2012-01-04
<Corey> Should there be a .dsc file included in the debian/ branch?
<StevenK> No
<Corey> StevenK: Okay. What generates that?
<StevenK> Corey: dpkg-source
<StevenK> A .dsc is part of a source package
<Corey> StevenK: I'm attempting to find a (semi sane) way to have Hudson automatically build a .deb from a git repo.
<Corey> ER, Jenkins even.
<StevenK> Check out the pieces, cd into it and run dpkg-buildpackage -S
<StevenK> That gives you a source package at least
<StevenK> If you can sure you have build-depends and a clean environment, just run dpkg-buildpackage
<Corey> StevenK: I can't be sure of any such thing, which is why I'll be running it in pbuilder.
<StevenK> Oh, then build a source package and toss it into pbuilder
<Corey> Need to find a sane way to get the b-ds into pbuilder's chroot-- probably a pbuilder --login --save in my future.
<micahg> Corey: pbuilder does that for you
<Corey> micahg: Unfortunately it doesn't in this case, the deps aren't in Lucid's repo.
<Corey> I do believe they'll be in 12.04's though.
<micahg> Corey: oh, then how do you expect to test?  why are you testing in a lucid chroot?
<Corey> micahg: Because the package is going out to Lucid boxes that will also grab the deps.
<micahg> Corey: then you need to add the repo that has those packages to the sources file for pbuilder (or use one of the flags to pass it when calling pbuilder)
<Corey> micahg: As of now the repo is a PPA.
<micahg> that's fine
<Corey> That'll still work?
<Corey> k.
<Corey> micahg: What would the pbuilder line look like then, so the chroot doesn't get whiny about missing GPG keys?
<micahg> Corey: you probably want to add the source and import the key inside the chroot if you don't want it to whine about the GPG keys
<micahg> if you're just testing stuff, you might not care about the keys
<micahg> (i.e. just throw away the binaries or use them in a clean env)
<micahg> udienz: you can sync stuff yourself now using the API, try syncpackage in ubuntu-dev-tools, just please remember that in general  we're syncing from testing by default this cycle, so anything from unstable or elsewhere should have a good reason to sync before it hits testing
<Corey> micahg: Well the plan is to pipe this into my repository eventually so I don't have to build new packages. :-)
<micahg> Corey: ah, so you don't intend to keep using a PPA then
<Corey> micahg: Right.
<micahg> ah, ok
<udienz> micahg, sorry it was my fault, i would like to simulate first but i submit a bugs. huh..
<udienz> perhaps we need --simulate options
 * udienz will back, need to go to office
<Corey> micahg: I can build it faster on my hardware than Launchpad can. :-)
<lifeless> Corey: whats your hardware?
<Corey> lifeless: HP DL360 G7
<lifeless> nice
<Corey> lifeless: Yeah, it's fun hardware.  Just need to get it set up to build something properly.
<Corey> I've got the repo working (https://github.com/saltstack/salt) but want to start doing testbuilds sanely as the next step.
<Corey> micahg: So the way that would play out would be what, git clone, dpkg-buildpackage, sudo pbuilder $someflags?
<micahg> Corey: sounds about right
<psusi> anyone have any idea why stack retracer can't seem to find the symbols for libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0?  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71632202/Stacktrace.txt
<psusi> it looks like the -dbg package has the symbols to me: http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/i386/libgtk2.0-0-dbg/filelist
<psusi> is there supposed to be a symlink for libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 pointing to .2400.6?
<psusi> in the -dbg that is
<Laney> I just came across slicer: FTBFS & maintainer thinks this version shouldn't be released with Debian. Remove?
<tumbleweed> slicer of VTK pain? remove
<Laney> it would be good if we could use a per-version blacklisting for something like this
<tumbleweed> yeah
<ScottK> Remove without blacklisting does it just fine after DIF.
<ScottK> Laney: If you wait until after DIF to remove it, it won't come back unless it's updated.
<Laney> yeah I said that in the bug
<Laney> ish
<tumbleweed> do we rebuild to make them shut up? bug 873984 (IIRC I looked and it worked fine, just displayed a warning)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873984 in proftpd-dfsg (Ubuntu) "mod_tls and mod_sftp complain about OpenSSL version mismatch" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873984
<micahg> tumbleweed: is it actually starting up the secure service?
<tumbleweed> I assume I checked and it was, but I'll check again
<micahg> tumbleweed: if it does need a rebuild, that means that the package should be fixed in precise to depend on the version it's built against only (which probably means it's using private symbols and shouldn't be) or it should just be fixed to not be so strict
<tumbleweed> at any rate it needs to be fixed to have stricter dependencies or be less noisy
<micahg> sure, but one's a wishlist/low and one's a medium/high
<tumbleweed> micahg: verified that it works just fine
<micahg> ok, so idk
<psusi> is there a way to force a hung app to crash and generate an apport crash report?  I thought sending it a SIGABRT would do that but I guess not
<broder> SIGSEGV?
<psusi> doesn't SIGABRT normally do the same thing?  I've seen apport crash reports where it died with SIGABRT?
<broder> i don't know, but i know SIGSEGV works
<psusi> hrm... I'll try that next time then.. seems when I resume from suspend, banshee hangs
<psusi> stuck on pthread_cond_timedwait() according to gdb, but got no other symbols
<tumbleweed> ubuntu-bug pid?
<tumbleweed> or will that not stack trace?
<EvilResistance> i've always used SIGSEGV for killing when it hangs and I want a bug report
<psusi> ahh, of course
 * EvilResistance did that twice for 12.04 programs
<Laney> getting tempted to upgrade
<EvilResistance> although that was from within a VM, so... :P
<broder> i've been thinking about it
<Laney> everyone goes on about how magically stable it is
<tumbleweed> I'm seeing lots of ath9k related kernel panics with the 3.2 kernel, otherwise the world is fine
<EvilResistance> hmm... is there any specific thing one has to do in order to throw a package's results to /usr/local/progname (where progname is the name of the program in the package)?
<EvilResistance> it keeps failing to build from source (pastebin coming shortly)
<tumbleweed> packaged stuff doesn't belong in /usr/local
<EvilResistance> tumbleweed:  where would you recommend extracting a program to, then?  (note that i'm putting it where the program developer wants it placed :/)
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: /usr/share and/or /usr/lib (see the FHS)
<EvilResistance> thanks
<tumbleweed> the upstream developer should use /usr/local, yes, but we don't
<Laney> most common build systems are capable of dealing with this, use one of those if possible
<psusi> how does the software center decide how to categorize packages?  gparted is listed under "Themes and Tweaks" and it shouldn't be
<RAOF> It slurps data out of the .desktop file, right?
<psusi> I dunno... but the desktop file says categories=GNOME;System;Filesystem;... not themes/tweaks
<psusi> reassign bug to software-center?
<RAOF> That'd be my starting point, yeah :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-01-05
<stahlie> hello everyone...   I was following the instruction on launchpad  and  tried to make install kqrcode....got error on it
<stahlie> missing header file ...not sure how to resolve that
<stahlie> hmm...nobody is talking here
<EvilResistance> yeah it sometimes gets quiet here
<astraljava> stahlie: If you need a certain header file, it is usually provided by a certain -dev package, which you need to add as a build dependency.
<astraljava> stahlie: Without more details, it is hard to say anything further.
<achiang> i recently uploaded a brand new package in debian, and it landed in testing a few days ago. how long should i wait before i expect it to show up in ubuntu?
<achiang> in precise, that is
<Laney> hopefully a new-source run will be done before DIF
<achiang> Laney: thanks
<Zhenech_> whe? Debian import freeze is already on the 12th? dang
<pdtpatrick> Question .. im trying to make a package and i've created a <package>.install file and a tmp/ which holds files and directories I want created. However I always get an error on debuild with regards to copying the folders. What's the best method to achieve this?
<jtaylor> pdtpatrick: whats the error?
<pdtpatrick> rm: cannot remove debian/tmp/directory/filename: Permission denied .. dh_clean rm -rf debian/tmp returned exit code 1
<jtaylor> have you run debuild with root rights once?
<pdtpatrick> i thought you just run debuild -S -sa without root permissions ? should i use sudo debuild -S -sa? won't lintian complain?
<jtaylor> you should run it without
<jtaylor> but when you don't ahve permissions then you probably ran it with root once by accident
<pdtpatrick> in that case, do i have to start anew? or just delete the folder and ensure the folder is at least 664 to be able to traverse it?
<jtaylor> yes try to delete it manually
<pdtpatrick> Question .. debuild keeps complaining about secret key not available (gpg) .. do i need to export it in .bashrc to avoid this? if so can someone give me an example of their setup
<jtaylor> put DEBSIGN_KEYID=... in .devscripts
<pdtpatrick> just create a .devscripts file in ~ and add that one line?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> replace ... with your keyid of course
<pdtpatrick> hehe thanks for clarifying that :)
<pdtpatrick> jtaylor: here's the error i keep getting now
<pdtpatrick> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/ZQd5TF2qLWrNLrJJNGdk/
<pdtpatrick> this is after debuild -S ran just fine. I then run sudo pbuilder build <file>.dsc
<pdtpatrick> and it yells at me
<jtaylor> why is that file in root?
<jtaylor> debian/tmp should mirror the layout of the installation
<jtaylor> - package splitting and files not installed
<jtaylor> how does the .install file look like?
<pdtpatrick> sorry I do not follow. What's the preferred method and if you can give me an example of where to put the files. Are you saying it should be in debian/tmp/tmp ? since debian/tmp == root then /tmp/tmp would actually be /tmp ?
<pdtpatrick> let me show you the .install
<jtaylor> yes, but why would you install something to /tmp?
<pdtpatrick> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/ZQd5TF2qLWrNLrJJNGdk/
<pdtpatrick> i was using tmp to test .. and if it worked then i would recreate to the proper location
<Resistance> why can't you just make the package and put it to the proper locations, then issue updates if it doesnt work?
<Resistance> afaict, nobody uses /tmp for testing package installs
<pdtpatrick> In that case - I got a question. So let's say i wanted a file in /data/www/location/ .. would that mean i would put the file in debian/tmp/data/www/location/<file> ? if so do i still need the .install file?
<jtaylor> if you have more than one binary package yes
<jtaylor> else no
<pdtpatrick> no to both or just the .install file? sorry i'm trying to learn the proper way of doing things
<jtaylor> the location would be correct
<jtaylor> though data is no FHS path
<jtaylor> so you should not do that
<pdtpatrick> i c
<pdtpatrick> cool let me try this again. You guys are very helpful.
<pdtpatrick> there should be a video for this :)
<jtaylor> udebs should not depend on non-udebs or?
<Ampelbein> jtaylor: http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/doc/internals/ch03.html looks to me like non-udebs are allowed as Depends.
<jtaylor> looks like it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-01-06
<Laney> nigelb: I see you offered gwibber help in debian #573822 (reminded by http://identi.ca/notice/88168234) â want sponsorship? :-) :-)
<ubottu> Debian bug 573822 in wnpp "RFA: gwibber -- microblogging client for GNOME" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/573822
 * Laney grins
<iulian> Good Laney!
<iulian> He always has something to offer.
<Laney> I live to please.
<Daviey> poor nigelb
<Laney> Ongoing (regular) maintenance might not be that hard if a bzr branch gets set up which we can merge the Ubuntu packaging branch withâ¦
 * Laney looks aruodn
<jtaylor> I wonder how wakeup made it into the archive, that thing is full of security holes
<Laney> let me guess
<Laney> ...an Ubuntu local package?
<jtaylor> yes
<Laney> funny
<jtaylor> saw dozens of potential issues and one definite priv escl. just by looking at a diff ...
<Laney> If only we had a good policy for kicking out shoddy apps
<Laney> in Debian it would be RC bugs and therefore not released
<tumbleweed> I don't ithkn we need one, kick it
<stgraber> file a package removal bug (after contacting whoever got the package in Ubuntu in the first place)
<Laney> absolutely it can be done, but having a policy gives things more weight, no?
<tumbleweed> we should review ubuntu-only packages with high severity bugs once a cycle or so
<Laney> and lets people stop them getting in
<tumbleweed> well, we're working hard on that :)
<tumbleweed> we stop anyone getting anything in :P
 * Laney can think of another time we failed ...
 * Laney coughs
<tumbleweed> that wasn't actually dangerous, just low quality
<tumbleweed> I thought micahg was going to find a serious security problem in it? :)
<Laney> well I would probably put the barrier at a different place :P
<Laney> argh I grepped for sudo in wakeup's source
<tumbleweed> ubuntu-dev-tools also overuses sudo a bit :/
<tumbleweed> (but safely, I think)
<jtaylor> sudo + predicatable tmpfilename = bad
<jtaylor> see data/scripts/wakeup
<jtaylor> data/scripts/wakeup +67
<Laney> maybe ARB does have a use :-)
<jtaylor> and it uses os.system all over the place with non constant arguments
<jtaylor> though the author is responsive, it could be fixed
<tumbleweed> yeah, I suspect we need a repo somewhere for everyone to upload their junk to, to get their warm fuzzy feelings, before they become competant, trustworthy developers
 * tumbleweed wonders if anyone has ever used a signed .changes file from -changes to mess with another developer's PPA
<psusi> you mean upload the same package they uploaded to main into their ppa?
<Laney> yes, I did once, to demonstrate why it was bad
<Laney> where are you seeing a signed one?
<tumbleweed> -changes has signed .changes files
<Laney> heh
<tumbleweed> psusi: yeah, you'd have to use the upload url mangling trick to do any real damage, though (to put it into a release that didn't have that version)
<tumbleweed> Laney: glad to see I'm not the first person to wonder this :)
<Laney> the case I got it fixed for was from +queue
<Laney> this was ages ago
<savvas> is the symbols file required for a debian library package?
<jtaylor> not required but strongly recommended
<savvas> thank you :) one more question: how do I file a new bug needs-packaging? Because now +filebug in launchpad redirects me to use ubuntu-bug and I cannot file a bug report without a package name
<Ampelbein> savvas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug shouldn't redirect to ubuntu-bug.
<Laney> yes it should
<Laney> you need to add ?no-redirect to that URL unless you are in bug control
<Ampelbein> ... That's interesting, thanks.
<savvas> thank you!
<softcoder> anyone here know who to ask about debian games getting puleld into ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> what's the question?
<softcoder> I worked with pabs and got megaglest to replace glest, its been in debian testing since jan 2 but it never got puleld into ubuntu
<softcoder> just wondering why not (pabs also thought it was strange)
<tumbleweed> it's a new package
<tumbleweed> they have to be manually reviewed
<tumbleweed> give it time
<softcoder> gotcha, its not really new, its a 'transition' or replacement
<tumbleweed> right, but that still means it has to go through the NEW review
<softcoder> ok, how long does that process usually take?
<tumbleweed> < 1 month. Someone should do a final cleanup of new around DIF
<softcoder> ok thx for the info
<micahg> nothing in NEW ATM, we need the new package sync first :)
<tumbleweed> well, for new packages from debian the review happens before the source upload
<micahg> not AIUI, they just get stuck in NEW and there they have to be reviewed
<ahasenack> hi guys, can someone take a look at this merge proposal for python-tz? https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/precise/python-tz/day-leap-fix-885163/+merge/87407
<ahasenack> hi, can someone take a look at this merge proposal, or should I ask in #ubuntu-motu, since it's a universe package? https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/precise/python-tz/day-leap-fix-885163/+merge/87407
<broder> ahasenack: i can look at it. one moment
<broder> (you are asking in #ubuntu-motu, though :-P)
<ahasenack> broder: thanks
<ahasenack> broder: oh, I thought that second question was in #ubuntu-devel, I got my tabs mixed :P
<broder> ahasenack: in the interests of getting a simple test that i can understand, tz=pytz.timezone('Pacific/Apia'); datetime(2012, 1, 1, tzinfo=tz) - datetime(2011, 12, 30, tzinfo=tz) == 1, right? As opposed to now, when it's 2?
<ahasenack> broder: you mean, besides the backtrace test I pasted in the comments?
<broder> ahasenack: aha, got it
<broder> tumbleweed, bdrung: :-/ sponsor-patch started calling debuild with --no-lintian, which oneiric's debuild doesn't support
<bdrung> broder: really?
<broder> uh...hmm
<broder> it does look like it has it doesn't it?
<broder> i wonder what my laptop was whining about
<bdrung> broder: i am running oneiric with latest u-d-t without having problems
<broder> bdrung: yeah, i think something else went wrong. will dig into it later. looks like a false alarm for the moment, though
<broder> ahasenack: uploaded
<ahasenack> broder: that's precise, right?
<broder> right
<ahasenack> broder: thanks!
<broder> ...i was going to open the sru bug tasks for that bug, but apparently i can't. wtf'
<ahasenack> broder: yeah, we have to ask someone for that
<ahasenack> broder: but let me prepare the sru template first
<ahasenack> broder: with justification, impact, etc
<broder> ahasenack: unless something changed very recently, motu could open the bug tasks
<broder> oh, i see. i'm looking at the upstream bug task
 * broder glares at lp
<broder> ahasenack: ok. tasks are open
<ahasenack>  broder thanks
<ahasenack> broder: can you also take the review from that mp? It's still "pending"
<broder> ahasenack: it got marked as merged
<ahasenack> broder: yeah, but the review request itself is still pending: Ubuntu branches: Pending requested 2012-01-03
<broder> i've merged the branch - any review would just be a formality. the mp should fall off the sponsorship queue the next time it runs, because its state isn't "needs review"
<ahasenack> ah, ok
<l3on> Hi all.. I'm looking at a orphaned package, in the many lintian errors I see:
<l3on> W: ferret: command-with-path-in-maintainer-script postinst:18 /usr/bin/update-mime-database
<l3on> and in postinst I have:
<l3on> # Deregister our X Desktop Group Shared MIME-info Database info
<l3on> if [ -x /usr/bin/update-mime-database ] ; then
<l3on>         /usr/bin/update-mime-database /usr/share/mime
<l3on> fi
<l3on> is it still necessary update mime ?
<l3on> does someone of you know how can I fix it?
<jtaylor> does it use debhelper?
<jtaylor> if yes dh_installmime will fill postinst correctly
<jtaylor> with is something like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/795189/
<l3on> jtaylor, I use dh 8, yes :)
<l3on> jtaylor, so, have I to delete those lines from postinst, right?
<jtaylor> if you use dh_installmime their probably redundant and can be removed
<jtaylor> l3on: ukopp and dkopp ftbs in precise due to a zfuncs.h issue, did you get my mail?
<l3on> jtaylor, yeeeepppp you're right!
<l3on> damn it :/
<l3on> I'll look at them i
<l3on> in one hour
<jtaylor> upstream said he'll release a new version 1. jan if you could package that and add it to debian that would be great
<jtaylor> but its not very urgent
<l3on> well, considering that debian import freeze is coming... :P
<l3on> lol
<jtaylor> we can still sync manually
<l3on> ah oki :)
<l3on> sorry for not reply, but when I received mail I was in holydays with family and a little bit busy :/
<l3on> jtaylor, anyway... my ferret rules is like:
<l3on> # Deregister our X Desktop Group Shared MIME-info Database info
<l3on> if [ -x /usr/bin/update-mime-database ] ; then
<l3on>         /usr/bin/update-mime-database /usr/share/mime
<l3on> fi
<l3on> opsss... sorry:
<l3on> %:
<l3on> 	dh $@
<l3on> I suppose that dh_installmime is called somewhere
<tumbleweed> easy enough to find out :)
<jtaylor> make sure the postinst contains the debhelper token
<jtaylor> (lintian will warn if not)
<nigelb> Laney: I do want to help, when I find more time. Currently packed schedule.
<Alison_Chaiken> Greetings all, my project needs a newer version of another project than upstream is offering as a package.
<Alison_Chaiken> I want to use the recommended procedure to address this problem, assuming I can understand it.
<Alison_Chaiken> From reading the Policy, I have the impression that I can package master/HEAD of project foo and distribute it with my other packages, as long as I use debian/watch to update when the latest foo is offered by upstream as a package.
<Alison_Chaiken> Is this more or less correct?
<Alison_Chaiken> I understand that what I want to avoid is that a year from now, my users have the old version of foo that I distribute today -- we want them to get an upstream update when it's available, which may not be long for all I know.
<Alison_Chaiken> I see that when I git-pull the last tagged release of an upstream, I get their debian directory.
<tumbleweed> Alison_Chaiken: why do you need a newer version? massive changes or a single patch?
<Alison_Chaiken> When I pull master/HEAD, I don't get one.
<tumbleweed> Alison_Chaiken: is this upstream a package in Ubuntu, or are we talking about a PPA
<Alison_Chaiken> tumbleweed, one of my collaborators sent a patchset to the upstream, which they liked, but which is not yet part of a release.
<tumbleweed> we can just cherry-pick that patch for Ubuntu
<Alison_Chaiken> My packages are in a PPA; what I'm patching is qjson, which is the RESTful part of Qt.
<tumbleweed> right, qjson is part of debian & ubuntu
<tumbleweed> you can just package the latest head of it in your PPA
<tumbleweed> as it's a PPA, don't worry about the watch file, just make an orig tarball from the latest upsteram HEAD
<tumbleweed> (or cherry-pick that patch, for a qjson upload to your ppa)
<Alison_Chaiken> I can just git-pull master/HEAD from qjson and then debuild it?
<Alison_Chaiken> I upload it to my ppa and call it . . . qjson?
<jtaylor> use an appropriate version number, e.g. one that replaces current ubuntu package but would get replaced by next one
<tumbleweed> rather try and create a .orig.tar.gz from upstream HEAD, and treat it as if it was an upstream release
<tumbleweed> but with a version number like 0.7.1+git20110106
<Alison_Chaiken> Upstream is at 0.7.1; I could package their master/HEAD and call it 0.7.1.1 so that when 0.7.2 is released by them, users are offered an update?
<tumbleweed> Alison_Chaiken: that looks like an upstream version, though
<tumbleweed> it's better to make it clearer that you packaged a random revision
<Alison_Chaiken> tumbleweed, I had called the package I already uploaded qjson-`git rev-parse HEAD` but that broke all our project's build machinery: nothing linked against it. (Duh, in retrospect.)
<tumbleweed> but again, this is a PPA, it doesn't really matter so much :P
<Alison_Chaiken> Learning right procedure is good though.
<tumbleweed> yeah, don't change the package name
<Alison_Chaiken> I don't want to do something stupid just because I can!
<tumbleweed> and don't use a git hash in a version, they don't increment
<Alison_Chaiken> I could just solve the problem with the usual cascade of symlinks in /usr/lib of course, too, and make postinst or whatever that script is called do the right linking.
<Alison_Chaiken> But I'm having trouble figuring out what the cool kids do here, since this problem obviously arises every day for everyone.
<tumbleweed> err, why the symlinks in /usr/lib?
<Alison_Chaiken> I could symlink qjson-123ac.so.1.0.0 to qjson.so in /usr/lib.
<tumbleweed> oh, did it require an ABI change?
<Alison_Chaiken> But users still wouldn't be offered an update when 0.7.2 actually is released.
<Alison_Chaiken> No, no, no ABI change: sorry to be misleading.
<Alison_Chaiken> What I actually did so far is package master/HEAD and call the package qjson-712b15 and put it in my ppa.
<Alison_Chaiken> It installs fine, but the other binaries didn't link against it, due to the stupid name, even though apt knows they depend on it.
<tumbleweed> right, don't rename it :)
<tumbleweed> you can keep the same name as debian
<Alison_Chaiken> I created my debian directory from the dh_make templates.   Perhaps what I need to do to have a happy ending is to copy upstream's debian directory and (ahem) properly amend it to reflect my use of HEAD?
<tumbleweed> yes
<tumbleweed> it's really just like any other modification ubuntu makes, from debian
<Alison_Chaiken> So if I call my package libqjson0, as Ubuntu does, and use qjson's debian directory and just change their metadata, that's cool?
<Alison_Chaiken> And my users will be offered new qjson when it drops?
<tumbleweed> yes
<Alison_Chaiken> When they install my main package, which depends on libqjson0, I just need to make sure they get the one in my ppa, not the upstream.
<Alison_Chaiken> I guess if the names are the same, that's the tricky part.
<jtaylor> thats what version numbers are there :)
<Alison_Chaiken> But maybe that dance has to do with configuring the PPA, not the package.
<jtaylor> Depends: libqjson0 (>= 0.7.1+gitwhatever)
<Alison_Chaiken> In the control file of the other packages, I see.
<jtaylor> though thats also not so great in the case of a soname bump
<Alison_Chaiken> So my package is called libqjson0, but the version is set in the metadata . . . like debian/changelog?!
<jtaylor> yes first line of the changelog
<Alison_Chaiken> Oh, so all I have to do is change the version number of the changelog?
<jtaylor> add a new entry with dch -vnewversionnumber
<Alison_Chaiken> Excellent!   Packaging is easy ;-)
<Alison_Chaiken> Thanks very much tumbleweed and jtaylor.
<jtaylor> if you only have to patch an existing one its very simple
<Alison_Chaiken> As I said, it's much easier to understand how to turn the crank on these programs than to do figure *what* to do sometimes.
<tumbleweed> yeah, cherry picking is probably simpler than HEAD, if the patch applies cleanly
<Alison_Chaiken> I'm off to read "dch --help" or "man dch" or whatever.
<jtaylor> its just a convinience program to add a correctly formated changelog entry
<Alison_Chaiken> WIll do, tumbleweed.
<Alison_Chaiken> jtaylor, I already noted that debuild is picky about changelog format!
<tumbleweed> Alison_Chaiken: here's an example where I've supported generating both released and VCS builds with get-orig-source: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/python-apps/packages/ibid/trunk/debian/rules?revision=7444&view=markup
<Alison_Chaiken> Thank you very much, tumbleweed.    I *think* I grok all this now.    I will study your example.
<tumbleweed> (that one uses revision numbers rather than dates)
<Laney> nigelb: heh, OK. :-)
<ockham> is there any such a thing as a debian import (sync) queue? or are debian packages from testing (or unstable, for not-LTS releases) just part of the regular ubuntu upload queue?
<tumbleweed> new packages?
<lifeless> ockham: they are mirrored across by an automatic process, no human accessible queue is involved; things that fail do need to be worked through, and that report is (or was anyhow) on MoM
#ubuntu-motu 2012-01-07
<ockham> hi, any clue why this https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pysolfc-cardsets package's version is suffixed "fakesync1"? i originally (2.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1) submitted it via MOTU and have recently had an updated version submitted to debian (2.0+dfsg-1, which has now been synced to ubuntu. is it because i changed the orig tarball (some cardsets turned out to be ok with dfsg)? could it have been avoided by versioning the dfsg suffix?
<ockham> most of all: is a fakesync something i need to worry about?
<broder> ockham: yes. because of how apt repositories work, a repository can never hold two different files with the same file name
<broder> when an orig tarball gets uploaded to ubuntu then a different one gets uploaded to debian, this would create a conflict for a normal sync
<broder> a fakesync takes the packaging from debian and overlays it on the orig tarball that ubuntu is now stuck with
<broder> so if debian had gotten the same orig tarball, or they had been named differently, there wouldn't have been a conflict, and we wouldn't have needed to do a fakesync
<broder> most of our tools will automatically detect if a fakesync is needed instead of a normal sync and do the fakesync instead (syncpackage can do this, for instance)
<mikeit> Hello!
<l3on> jtaylor, around? I'm patchig dkopp (ukopp already done by Ilya). Have you talked with upstream, right? There is no new release in the download page :/
<jtaylor> l3on: hm I'll just fix dkopp as it doesn't affect debian, ping me when a new upstream comes out and you have it in debian
<l3on> jtaylor, I applied patch in debian packages, now waiting for a sponsor.
<jtaylor> ok
<jtaylor> wtf python2.7-dev amd64 2.7.2-9ubuntu1 [44.0 MB]
<jtaylor> why is that so large
<KNRO> hello, I encountered a dependency error building in launchpad
<KNRO> libapogee-dev : Depends: libapogee2 (= 2.2-0ubuntu1) but 2.3-0~21~oneiric1 is to be installed
<KNRO> I don't understand why the latest version 2.3 is not installed if it's available?
<KNRO> there is no requirement for = 2.2
<jtaylor> -dev packages usually have = {binary...} dependencies
<KNRO> yes, should I say the dev package should be >= 2.3 then?
<jtaylor> no, -dev packages should always be the exact same version as the accompanied library
<l3on> KNRO, apt-cache policy libapogee2
<KNRO> jtaylor: the problem is the 2.2 is available in universe while 2.3 of the package is available in my ppa
<KNRO> so apparently launchpad tries to use the 2.2 version but it also 'sees' the 2.3
<jtaylor> doesn't your ppa provide the -dev package?
<KNRO> yes
<jtaylor> then apt should see that too
<jtaylor> whats the output of l3ons line?
<KNRO> Installed: (none)   Candidate: 2.2-0ubuntu1   Version table:    2.2-0ubuntu1 0
<KNRO> but this is local, I'm trying to build this on launchpad using a recipe
<KNRO> so I'm trying to build a package (indi-apogee) that depends on libapogee2. The version in universe is 2.2, the version in my ppa is 2.3. launchpad says that libapogee-dev depends on 2.2, even though when it can see that 2.3 is the latest one and is going to be installed.
<Ampelbein> KNRO: Can you give the link to your ppa?
<KNRO> Ampelbein: Sure. https://launchpad.net/~mutlaqja/+archive/ppa
<KNRO> This is the buildlog: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/89300412/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.indi-apogee_1.1-0~23~oneiric1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Ampelbein> KNRO: The -dev package of your ppa version is named libapogee2-dev, you build-depend on libapogee-dev.
<KNRO> Ampelbein: arghhh! Ok thanks let me check!
<KNRO> Ampelbein: Spent two hours on this! Thanks for catching the problem, will have to READ carefully next time
<Ampelbein> Happens to all of us ;-)
<Ampelbein> l3on: fdm sync (#913253) accepted, thanks for your work!
<l3on> Ampelbein, thanks for your review :)
<achiang> ugh, this should be simple, but i'm not getting it. how does one add a brand new file using quilt? a binary doesn't have a manpage, so i did:
<achiang> 1) quilt new add-manpage.patch
<achiang> 2) touch resources/man/foo.1
<achiang> 3) <edit foo.1>
<achiang> 4) quilt add resource/man/foo.1
<achiang> 5) quilt refresh
<achiang> step 5 gives an error: Nothing in patch add-manpage.patch
<jtaylor> can you add before touching it?
<Ampelbein> achiang: switch steps 3 and 4.
<achiang> Ampelbein: jtaylor: thanks, will give it a shot
<Ampelbein> Quilt refresh will diff the current version versus the original version added with quilt add, so  if you edit before adding quilt will never see the original.
<achiang> ah
<achiang> this is a leaky difference between quilt and a real vcs like git/bzr
<jtaylor> in format 3.0 packages just create the file and run debuild
<Ampelbein> better, run dpkg-source --commit.
<Ampelbein> as the default is currently to abort on uncommited changes.
<jtaylor> does that work < preciase?
<achiang> jtaylor: it is a 3.0 package... but doesn't that create a debian-changes patch?
<jtaylor> yes
<Ampelbein> jtaylor: nope, was introduced in 1.16.1.1, only in precise.
<jtaylor> rename it and fill out the templete
<achiang> right
<achiang> yay, that got it
<achiang> and now i'm lintian clean
<ockham> what do i need to do about that fakesync issue in pysolfc-cardsets? (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pysolfc-cardsets  ). i've modified the orig tarball in the version that got synced from debian (some more cardsets had turned out to be dfsg-compatible), and now there's that fakesync which apparently means that the version that's now scheduled for inclusion in precise has the old orig tarball.
<ockham> what's necessary for ubuntu to have the updated orig tarball?
<soren> bencc: Well, essentially, from upstart's perspective the package just needs to ship two job descriptions.
<soren> bencc: I.e. two files in /etc/init
<bencc> soren: now I have upstart
<soren> bencc: Usually, if you only have a single job, you just name it debian/whatever.upstart, right?
<bencc> soren: so I need to replace it with /etc/init/script1 and /etc/init/script2?
<bencc> soren: right
<soren> bencc: Kinda.
<soren> bencc: That is what needs to happen, but debhelper lends you a helping hand here.
<bencc> soren: how?
<soren> bencc: You can just put another upstart job in debian/. Call it e..g debian/whatever.somethingelse.upstart
<soren> bencc: It'll be installed as /etc/init/somethingelse.conf
<bencc> soren: don't I need to call it with my package name?
<bencc> just arbitrary name?
<soren> bencc: Yes. That's the "whatever" part.
<soren> If your single upstart job is now called whatever.upstart, your other one should be called whatever.somethinglese.upstart
<bencc> soren: thanks
<soren> I.e. the first part tells debhelper which binary package the upstart job will go to.
<soren> The second part tells it what the name of the job should be.
<soren> Makes sense?
<bencc> yes, makes sense
<bencc> so I could have mypackage.script1.upstart and mypackage.script2.upstart
<soren> bencc: Right.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-01-08
<l3on> Hi guys.... someone can help me with this?
<l3on> http://debomatic64.debian.net/precise/pool/shogun_1.1.0-1ubuntu1/shogun_1.1.0-1ubuntu1.buildlog (16MB!)
<l3on> snippet:
<l3on> make[1]: Entering directory `/tmp/buildd/shogun-1.1.0/shogun-ruby_modular/interfaces/ruby_modular'
<l3on> clang++ -Xlinker --no-undefined -L../../shogun -lshogun -lruby-1.9.1 -fPIC -shared -ldl modshogun_wrap.cxx.o sg_print_functions.cpp.o -L../../shogun -lshogun -lm -pthread -lhdf5 -ljson   -lxml2   -llapack -lcblas -llapack_atlas -larpack -lglpk -lm -llzo2 -lz -llzma  -o modshogun.so
<l3on> modshogun_wrap.cxx.o: In function `Init_modshogun':
<l3on> /tmp/buildd/shogun-1.1.0/shogun-ruby_modular/interfaces/ruby_modular/modshogun_wrap.cxx:378696: undefined reference to `rb_define_module'
<jtaylor> the libraries must be after the objects
<jtaylor> lshogun and lruby
<l3on> ah ok, always the same :)
<l3on> Hi guys... I'm looking at merge eggdrop... last ubuntu changes import a SSL patch, in website I can read:
<l3on_> <l3on> Hi guys... I'm looking at merge eggdrop... last ubuntu changes import a SSL patch, in website I can read:
<l3on_> <l3on> Adds SSL support to Eggdrop, allowing your bot to establish an SSL connection with IRC servers that support it. Note this patch does not have 64-bit or thread support. Also note this patch works for some but causes crashes for othersâsee this forum thread for more information. Users who experience crashes after applying this patch should not send a bug report to Eggdrop development, but instead consider using the development version of Eggdr
<l3on_> op 1.8 w
<l3on_> <l3on> hich includes SSL support.
<l3on_> <l3on> the question is: we have to apply it anyway ?.. I mean, it seems that introduces some crashes, could it be more safe do not include it this time?
<udienz> l3on, dpkg-ruby is absolute by ruby-debian
<udienz> see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=654296
<ubottu> Debian bug 654296 in ftp.debian.org "RM: dpkg-ruby -- RoQA; obsoleted by ruby-debian" [Normal,Open]
<l3on> udienz, ah ok, so we have to make a transitional package ?
<arand> Regarding icons.. Which resolution does ubuntu use for the launcher and lenses? Would it be ok to only install a 128x128 version, or should I convert it down to something like x64?
<udienz> l3on, why we need it?
<l3on> udienz, I don't know, I'm learning this things in these days ... so, don't really care about by words :)
<l3on> anyway, is not the standard way to replace a package with another ?
<udienz> l3on, http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/ruby-debian.git;a=blob;f=debian/control;hb=HEAD#l14 ruby-debian will replace dpkg-ruby
<l3on> ah great! :)
<udienz> l3on, you can use replace
<l3on> ah ok, :)
<udienz> l3on, for bug 896668. please add debdiff from latest ubuntu change to your newer ubuntu changes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 896668 in forked-daapd (Ubuntu) "Please merge forked-daapd 0.19gcd-2 (universe) from Debian unstable " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896668
<udienz> so we have 2 debdiff, 1) debdiff debian-ubuntu 2) debdiff ubuntu-ubuntu
<l3on> udienz, done :)
<udienz> ah.. i forget to join ubuntu-sponsors team
<udienz> i'll take a look
<l3on> hey gusy, have you ever seen something like this: http://debomatic64.debian.net/precise/pool/jack-tools_20101210-1.1ubuntu1/jack-tools_20101210-1.1ubuntu1.buildlog ?
<jtaylor> l3on: yes  -lm is missing
<l3on> well and why it builds fine in debian? :)
<jtaylor> it previously relied on indirect linkage
<jtaylor> probably as-needed related
<jtaylor> as yes thats the issue
<jtaylor> -lm is on the line, but it must be after the static library
<l3on> ok, I'm going to fix it :)
<udienz> hm.. seems like debian not enabled as-neeeded
<jtaylor> yes unfortunatly
<jtaylor> most existing packages are fixed but a good percentage of new packages need fixing too
<jtaylor> it will be a constant source of work for quite a while
<jtaylor> (until upstreams get it)
<udienz> jtaylor, then all bug with as-needed in debian must not 'serious' priority again?
<jtaylor> no they are wishlist
<jtaylor> debian does not enable that flag, and probably also won't in near future
<l3on> well jtaylor it's not so simple, sice jack-tools uses automake :/
<l3on> thats all:
<l3on> jack_udp_LDADD = common/libcommon.a $(JACK_LIBS)
<l3on> jack_udp_CFLAGS = $(AM_CFLAGS) $(JACK_CFLAGS)
<l3on> makefile.am
<jtaylor> that looks right
<jtaylor> just missing a -lm
<l3on> .. are you suggesting to add manually -lm ?
<jtaylor> debian/rules is to blame
<jtaylor> LDFLAGS += -ldl -lm
<jtaylor> that should be LIBS
<jtaylor> make sure to file a bug in debian
<l3on> yep :)
<l3on> thanks :)
<Zhenech_> that should be in the automake foo, not in rules
<jtaylor> yes thats an upstream issue
<Zhenech_> there is a trivial automake snippet for that even
<jtaylor> hm no forwarding adress set in the debian bug that introduced that ...
<Zhenech_> something like this to the configure.ac:
<Zhenech_> +LT_LIB_M
<Zhenech_> +LIBINDICATOR_LIBS+="$LIBM"
<Zhenech_> (JACK_LIBS here ofc)
<l3on> well jtaylor it does not work :)
<l3on> http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/jack-tools_20101210-1.1ubuntu1/jack-tools_20101210-1.1ubuntu1.buildlog
<jtaylor> try LIBADD
<l3on> udienz, oooops..
<l3on> I forgot to delete it, it does not come from merge-grub, It's a test I did some days ago... Sorry!
<udienz> l3on, no problem. please upload your debdiff again
<l3on> udienz, done :)
<l3on> jtaylor, nothing changed :/
<jtaylor> you probably have to patch the source then
<jtaylor> configure.ac
<udienz> l3on, uploaded, thanks for your work
<l3on> udienz, thanks for review :)
<udienz> wow you have ~40 uploaded to Ubuntu archive
<jtaylor> do we need dpkg predepends for bz2 packages?
<jtaylor> probably not, I just looked at the wrong compressed file
<dupondje> whats the version convention for beta versions ?
<dupondje> 1.0.0-beta5-0ubuntu1 ?
<dupondje> or ?
<tumbleweed> there's a problem with that
<tumbleweed> 1.0.0-beta5 > 1.0.0
<dupondje> myeh :)
<tumbleweed> use ~beta5
<dupondje> oh ok :)
<dupondje> thx
<dupondje> beta versions accepted btw ?
<tumbleweed> sure, we occasionaly upload bzr/git/svn HEADs
<tumbleweed> obviously, only when it's a good idea
<tumbleweed> we prefer released versions, certainly
<lfaraone> If I'm SRUing multiple bugs, should I just put all the verification information in the main bug? Specifically thinking of bug 743198
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 743198 in pithos (Ubuntu Oneiric) ""You have no chance to survive make your time" error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743198
<lfaraone> also, most confusing error message ever.
<arand> Regarding icons.. Which resolution does ubuntu use for the launcher and lenses? Would it be ok to only install a 128x128 version, or should I convert it down to something like x64?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-31
<udienz> Logan_: ping
<Logan_> udienz: pong
<ESphynx> Happy new year guys :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-01-01
<micahg> ScottK: re bug 1094596, I'm guessing that won't fly as an SRU...
<ubottu> bug 1094596 in Quantal Backports "Please backport broadcom-sta 5.100.82.112-8 (multiverse) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094596
<ScottK> micahg: No.  I wouldn't think so.
<ScottK> As  backport, I think it's fine though.
<micahg> ScottK: yeah, I'll process it, thanks
<micahg> \o/ first upload of 2013
<dkessel> hello. i just tried backporting a package from raring to precise. however, the built packages declares higher required version numbers for the dependencies than are available in precise...
<dkessel> but i see in debian/control that the version numbers there are correct...
<dkessel> i used "backportpackage" in a raring VM to build the backport for precise. any idea?
<micahg> dkessel: so, if the need for a new version was a packaging change, you could revert the packaging change, the other option is to backport the newer dependency as well
<dkessel> micahg: thanks. i am using precise now, which seems to fix the version problem. however, the precise version has another known bug that stops me from finishing...
#ubuntu-motu 2013-01-02
<shadeslayer> could someone sponsor bug 1093220 ?
<ubottu> bug 1093220 in transmission (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Fix transmission-qt to open magnet links from a browser" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093220
<alkisg> Hi, due to LP #1078679, my sch-scripts package needs to temporarily ship a /usr/local/bin/gnome-panel wrapper. But when I put "local/gnome-panel   usr/local/bin/" in debian/sch-scripts.install, dh_installlocal then complains:
<alkisg> dh_usrlocal: debian/sch-scripts/usr/local/bin/gnome-panel is not a directory
<alkisg> rmdir: failed to delete Â«debian/sch-scripts/usr/local/binÂ»: the directory is not empty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1078679 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "Gnome fallback - intermittent menus on top panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078679
<alkisg> How can I workaround the error? Or should I better use dpkg-divert gnome-panel instead?
<alkisg> (just until the gnome-panel bug is fixed, then I'll remove the workaround from my package...)
<micahg> I'll ask here since I didn't get a response on OFTC over the weekend, if a package in sid won't build from versions of packages in sid, is that an RC bug and is policy 2.2.1 the one to quote or something else?
<Rhonda> A FTBFS is clearly a RC bug, and any maintainer wanting to argue which policy checkpoint that fails against is doing a very poor job - leave out the policy line. :)
<micahg> it's arch:all (which is why it probably wasn't noticed)
<micahg> so, just select FTBFS in reportbug then?
<Rhonda> And "over the weekend" is a bit strange, you asked yesterday, we are in the middle of the week.  ;)
<Rhonda> Yes.
<micahg> sorry, my mind is not grounded ATM :)
<Rhonda> Just because it's a day off from work it's not weekend.  *smirks*
<micahg> I've been off from work for 2 weeks, so that kinda makes it feel like one big weekend in some ways...
<Rhonda> If someone is familiar with upnp, I'd like to have a chat. :)
<micahg> Rhonda: BTW, I've done FTBFS bugs before, just not of this type, so wasn't sure if the virtual severity was appropriate since it will always be built locally
<Rhonda> It will, always?  Why is it a FTBFS then?
<micahg> because the dependency isn't satisfiable from the archive
<Rhonda> Then your "always" classification is wrong. :)
<geser> micahg: you sometimes find FTBFS bugs for arch:all packages in the BTS too (when someone was doing an archive rebuild test)
<micahg> geser: ah, oh, makes sense then
<micahg> Rhonda: why is my always classification wrong then?  Debian requires binary+source uploads?
 * micahg will check backscroll later
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, thanks for handling the backports for znc -> quantal, precise, sorry it took a while
<Rhonda> micahg: Because it doesn't work "always", just in special circumstances where the required dependency is installed.  That's not "always" in my area.  It "always" would fail on my system, for a start.
<Quintasan> Anyone can tell me where I can find the proper procedure for making an upload that is made so the package is only rebuilt?
<geser> Quintasan: use "dch -R" to get the right version number and write a change log entry (usually explaining short the reason for the rebuild)
<geser> if the packages has no Ubuntu delta, you should get a version number "-XbuildY" otherwise the usual "-XubuntuY"
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: sure, no problem
<micahg> Rhonda: I meant locally as in not on buildd, not dkms style
<Quintasan> geser: Tahnks!
<Quintasan> duh
<Quintasan> Thanks even
<dkessel> hello. i am trying to backport a package from raring to precise. i have built the package locally using backportpackage, however, i get a build failure when launchpad tries to build my PPA:
<dkessel> https://launchpad.net/~d-kessel/+archive/performous/+build/4184133/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.performous_0.7.0-1ubuntu1%7Eubuntu12.04.1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> did you build it locally in a pbuilder chroot?
<dkessel> yes - backportpackage does that by default and i watched it build it
<jtaylor> it does?
<jtaylor> I though it only builds the source package
<dkessel> jtaylor: i have the .deb's here ;) and i think it is something with h2m that is used in the make process... i have another log here from an older version from the original developer:
<dkessel> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/58444047/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.performous_0.6.1~ppa1~lucid_BUILDING.txt.gz
<dkessel> there muste be something different on the build server... which is not in my pbuilder chroot
<jtaylor> running ./performous --help during the build might give a clue
<dkessel> may i need special pbuilder configuration? i just used "pbuilder create"
<dkessel> trying --help next....
<Rhonda> I wonder whether canonical payed valve for steam  :)
<dkessel> ok, so i gave up and filed a backport bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+bug/1095441
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1095441 in Quantal Backports "Please backport performous 0.7.0-1ubuntu1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New]
<jtaylor> micahg: so the unsolvable yade problem means ipython can't be backported?
<jtaylor> can't we just screw that stupid requirement
<jtaylor> or make an sru for yade? ...
<micahg> jtaylor: let's talk later about it, we should be able to solve it one way or another
#ubuntu-motu 2013-01-03
<micahg> MOTU meeting in 17 minutes?
<tumbleweed> I removed those from the schedule because nobody has been pitching up for a while
<micahg> :(
<Laney> :( indeed
<highvoltage> happy new year micahg, tumbleweed and Laney (and others who might be reading)
<Laney> and to you highvoltage
<Laney> good holidays?
<highvoltage> well, I actually managed to relax a bit the last week
<alo21> barry, hi... may I ask you a thing?
<barry> alo21: sure!
<alo21> barry, I would like to know if I could make a request to join ubuntu-development-team...if not, what should I do
<alo21> barry, this is my developer's activity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessandroLosavio/Packaging
<barry> alo21: have you seen this page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<alo21> barry, yea... I made dome development stuffs, but I do not know if it's enough what I did, to be recognize as a developer
<barry> alo21: it depends on what kind of developer you want to be, or what activities you want to be able to perform.  e.g. are you looking for upload rights of some kind?
<alo21> barry, I would like to fix bugs,  but if possible I would like to have upload rights. In fact I am working/worked on fixing/syncing/merging
<barry> alo21: great! fixing bugs is easy, and from your page it looks like you've had some success with that.  becoming a prospective or contributing developer might be a good first step.  from there, you might apply to the ubuntu developer membership board to gain upload rights per-package, or for a package set, or for a core developer.  for the latter, you'll need a lot of experience, good understanding of the ubuntu development process,
<barry> positive advocates, and patience (we are already booked for the next 6 weeks ;)
<alo21> barry, OK. Thanks for your time
<barry> alo21: no problem, and good luck
#ubuntu-motu 2013-01-04
<bkerensa> cjwatson: libvideo-frequencies-perl  ;)
<cjwatson> bkerensa: que?
<geser> Laney: do you know if we can sync haskell-conduit from experimental as haskell-network-conduit is in depwait on that version?
<Laney> geser: no I don't know about that specifically I'm afraid
<Laney> I had hoped to start the transition in earnest over the holidays but it turned out that I didn't have much time for that stuff
<geser> ah, I once looked at it (if it builds) but it also needs a merge of haskell-devscripts
<Laney> probably so
<Laney> iulian: would you have any time to help on this?
<aboudreault> hey, does anyone know what's the error? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/127508146/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.libxml2_2.8.0%2Bdfsg1-5ubuntu2.2~lucid1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<aboudreault> The same package build properly in pbuilder.
<geser> did you pbuilder used the same debhelper package like it was used in the PPA (8.9.0ubuntu1~ppa1~lucid4 from the ubuntugis-unstable PPA)
<aboudreault> guess not. the building machine is a latest.
<aboudreault> geser, we try a override_dh_prep now..
<aboudreault> geser, oh, well... yes the debhelper is supposed to be the same since we build in the same distribution inside a pbuilder
<geser> aboudreault: I asked because I noticed a "T" at the end of each dh call in your log (and I don't remember seeing this normally)
<aboudreault> emm... that's right
<aboudreault> /bin/rm: cannot remove `libtoolT': No such file or directory
<aboudreault> strange.. will check this
<aboudreault> geser, but there is no T at all when building with pbuilder lucid ...
<geser> hmm, strange
<geser> aboudreault: dh $@ T (from your debian/rules)
<geser> what does/should do the "T" do there?
<aboudreault> good question.
<aboudreault> will point it to my coworker.
<geser> aboudreault: and the reason why it build in your pbuilder is the same why it build in your PPA for i386 and not amd64: pbuilder and the i386 use by default the "binary" target (build both binary-arch and binary-indep) while the amd64 buildd uses "binary-arch"
<aboudreault> ah. I see. Thanks for the info
<geser> you should be able to reproduce it with specifing "--binary-arch" to your pbuilder call
<achiang> any pilots around? i'm poking about bug #1093511
<ubottu> bug 1093511 in remmina (Ubuntu) "please merge remmina 1.0.0-4 (main) from Debian testing" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093511
<TAsn> From #ubuntu: (who sent me here as MOTU is the maintainer of the relevant packages)
<TAsn> Hey guys. What should I do to get a package off the ubuntu repos? I work on e17 and ubuntu has a 3 year old package in it's repos. This is very annoying as  users think badly of e17 because of it (it was an early dev version). I would like that if possible this package will be removed altogether or upgraded to  the stable release, but what should I do in order to achieve that?
<TAsn> that and all the relevant supporting libs (evas, eina and etc)
<TheLordOfTime> TAsn, getting it upgraded in Debian might be where you need to start - afaict its being pulled form sid (aka "unstable") into the ubuntu repositories.
<TAsn> it is upgraded in debian
<TheLordOfTime> note I"m not a MOTU, i'm just going by what i see on the packages on here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/e17
<TAsn> I mean
<TheLordOfTime> TAsn, not in unstable?
<TAsn> getting upgraded
<TheLordOfTime> probably post-freeze.
<TAsn> the problem is old repos
<TAsn> 12.04 and etc
<TheLordOfTime> (i think debian's still under freeze)
<TAsn> we want them removed
<TAsn> TheLordOfTime, the link you provided is too old.
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: Itis.
<TheLordOfTime> TAsn, the link I provided is live data from launchpad
<TheLordOfTime> it doesn't track Debian
<TAsn> sure
<TheLordOfTime> that's whats in the repos now, expand one of the packages you'll see its pulled in from sid.
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, MOTU?
<TAsn> TheLordOfTime, and that's old
<TheLordOfTime> (you're everywhere, hence me asking)
<TheLordOfTime> TAsn, you said that three times already
<TAsn> and people using older ubuntu get older versions
<TAsn> and we would like that removed
<ScottK> TAsn: How about getting it updated?
<ScottK> Wouldn't that be better?
<TAsn> it won't be updated in old ubuntus, won't it?
<TAsn> no features policy and etc
<TAsn> no?
<ScottK> No.  It also won't be removed.
<ScottK> We don't do post release removals.
<ScottK> I can remove it from the development release, but that's all I can do.
<TAsn> that's just frustrating
<TAsn> ScottK, nah, that's alright, thanks.
<ScottK> Once it's updated in the development release, we could backport the newer one.
<ScottK> Then you could at least say "Oh, install the update in backports)
<TAsn> yeah
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, it'd have to be upgraded in Sid, at least in experimental, no?
<TheLordOfTime> and then sync'd to $latestdev
<TheLordOfTime> ?
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: Or we do a direct upload.
<TAsn> it's being updated in unstable atm iirc
<TAsn> or maybe experimental
<TheLordOfTime> TAsn, not while debian's under freeze it likely won't be
<ScottK> If it's being updated in Unstable/experimental, then we can sync that.
<TAsn> ScottK, the thing is, that as I said, the current version is a very old development snapshot
<TAsn> that is just broken
<TAsn> we get a lot of users that install that
<TAsn> instead from our ppa
<TAsn> it's very frustrating
<ScottK> Sure.
<TAsn> and because there's a package
<TAsn> they think it's alright
<TheLordOfTime> TAsn, the nginx team has the same issue
<TheLordOfTime> but we can't do a single thing about it
<TAsn> as ubuntu/debian usually don't package dev snapshot
<ScottK> Sure you can.
<TheLordOfTime> so we say "screw it" and tell people to use the PPA when they stop in #nginx (we keep $latestdev synced with Debian as much as possible)
<TAsn> so they don't even try the ppa
<ScottK> You can get involved in Ubuntu development and make sure the stuff in the repos is up to date/working.
<TAsn> they either complain in our support chan
<TAsn> ScottK, I'm not an ubuntu user myself
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, i could, but CBA to repackage things when i'm busy fixing things :p
<TAsn> I'm just sick of users bein mislead
<TAsn> or more correctly
<ScottK> TAsn: Sure.
<TAsn> users misleading themselves. :)
<ScottK> Is there someone on the e17 team that is?
<TAsn> a user?
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, speaking of which, PPU rights, how often are those requests addressed/handled?
<ScottK> An Ubunt person.
<TAsn> Some lazy ones, I'm sure.
<TAsn> yeah
<TheLordOfTime> TAsn, upstream, as in devs/packagers i think is what ScottK meant.
<TAsn> but the fact that I'm here
<TAsn> and they are not
<TAsn> means that they are too lazy too bother
<ScottK> Right.
<TAsn> I have a box with ubuntu 12.04 on it though
<TAsn> somewhere
<ScottK> Perhaps the person maintaining the PPA could get some sponsored uploads and the apply for per-package uploader rights for e17?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: PPU upload rights are process fortnightly at the Developer Membership Board meeting (2 applicants per meeting max)
<TAsn> what does that even mean? I.e what should be done?
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, thanks.
<micahg> as for backports, I've been trying to keep up with the recent requests, I haven't dug into the backlog yet
<ScottK> Whoever is doing the PPA would also prepare an upload for Ubuntu and then file a bug with a link to the .dsc and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<TAsn> And what are those ubuntu-sponsors?
<ScottK> It's a team of Ubuntu devs that review requests by non-developers for package uploads
<TAsn> ScottK, and also, just to have it sorted in my head: what can be done with the old ubuntu versions? 10.04-13.04? I.e ones that ship the old version?
<ScottK> They then also tend to be the ones who will advocate for someone being ready for direct upload rights since they've seen their work.
<ScottK> 13.04 is the development version.
<ScottK> We can still update that freely.
<TAsn> Ah, cool.
<ScottK> Once that's done, we can backport the new package to 10.04 - 12.10.
<TAsn> ScottK, OK. Will ask in our mailing list for volunteers.
<ScottK> So that users of those releases can install it from backports.
<TAsn> Thanks a lot.
<TAsn> ScottK, and there's no way to remove the old packages from the repos, right?
<ScottK> That's correct.
<TAsn> Thank you.
<TAsn> ScottK, talked to someone, will be done soon. Thanks a lot.
<TAsn> later
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<jbicha> here's a weird problem: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=697158
<ubottu> Debian bug 697158 in libsnappy1.0.3-java "libsnappy1.0.3-java: Missing jar due to broken debian/links" [Grave,Open]
#ubuntu-motu 2013-01-05
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: (long overdue) happy new year to you too
<highvoltage> thanks tumbleweed
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor, ping.
<jtaylor> TheLordOfTime: ?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-01-06
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: what were you asking about removals before?
<micahg> anyone available to review a python mutliarch patcg?
<micahg> vibhav: would you mind preparing a merge  for java-package (or I can do it if you like), I think it'll fix Bug #1096546
<ubottu> bug 1096546 in java-package (Ubuntu) "Failed to work with jdk7u10. No matching plugin was found" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096546
<micahg> vibhav: from experimental I mean
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, jtaylor, sorry ended up out of the home all day, and part of this i'll have to follow up with SpamapS about, but what's with replacing the php5-imap, php5-mcrypt, etc. with versions in Universe, which are actually *behind* the normal php5 package in raring?
<TheLordOfTime> makes backporting (even in PPAs for special-use cases on one of my servers) such packages that much harder
<TheLordOfTime> as well, the modules that are in universe replacing the 5.4.9 php5-built ones are built against 5.4.6 (if their version numbers can be trusted)
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, as for "removals", the only thing i'm still pretty adamant about getting dropped from the repos is 'supybot' which is not updated, but we've already discussed that before that a lot of people use it, including the ubuntu bots team.
<TheLordOfTime> debdiff prepping - two questions: (1) packaging version changing for updates is outlined where?  and (2) do you prefer that debdiffs include a changelog entry increasing the revision number.
<vibhav> micahg: there?
<vibhav> micahg: Sorry for responding late, I will try to do that
<vibhav> micahg: Sorry, I cant prepare a merge ATM (No time, studies)
<micahg> vibhav: do you mind if I do it then?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: any chance of getting it updated in Debian?  we can surely backport it
<sao> Hello all. I am the upstream Developer of Diodon a clipboard manager with Unity integration. Currently I am working to create a package for the official Ubuntu repository and wanted to ask whether there would be anyone who could mentor/sponsor me on the way? More details see here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/808464
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 808464 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] diodon -- Clipboard manager for GNOME and Unity" [Wishlist,In progress]
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, only if we drop it in Raring from universe, and have SpamapS undo his revisions allowing php5-mcrypt to build from php5 source
<TheLordOfTime> which is how it was in quantal
<TheLordOfTime> or at the very least, Precise
<TheLordOfTime> or do you mean supybot?
<TheLordOfTime> (if you mean supybot, i've heard "rumors" it'll be updated in Debian)
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: hrm?  I was referring to supybot
<TheLordOfTime> (but only rumors)
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, we had a 30 minute discussion about 2 months ago about supybot
<TheLordOfTime> i may still be saying it should be removed, but i'm not pushing that
<TheLordOfTime> i'm more concerned about php5
<TheLordOfTime> which is why i pinged jtaylor yesterday
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, consider supybot a "non-issue"
<TheLordOfTime> i wasn't the one here pushing for a package removal yesterday, TAsn was
<TheLordOfTime> for already-released things, which AIUI is not possiblew
<jtaylor> TheLordOfTime: updating the php things should be trivial
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor, you're the last commit on php-mcrypt source package, but mind me asking *why* it was placed in universe and  dropped from the php5 source?
<jtaylor> some main reason
<jtaylor> I forgot it again
<jtaylor> I don't care about php, did the update because it was required for security and ftbfs
<micahg> libmcrypt is in universe
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, php5 is in main, and previously built php5-mcrypt, is the reason it was manually separated from php5 because the underlying library is in universe?
<jtaylor> I think because they are plugins not officially supported by pgp
<jtaylor> php
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor, OK, then i am safe in that if the php-mcrypt package says '5.4.6-something' then its built from 5.4.6's code base?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> it should be in README.source how to update them
<jtaylor> I'd wait until feature freeze
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor, is the universe package released under the same license as php5?
<TheLordOfTime> (i.e. can i take the code, update it, fork it, rebuild it to the  needs with changes,  etc. in a PPA)
<jtaylor> probably I think its in the same tarball
<micahg> if it's all one shared tarball, maybe we should make it php5-universe and be done with it
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, that'd imply you'd have to incorporate php5-imap as well
<jtaylor> or wait until the reorg ;)
<TheLordOfTime> which is in the same boat as php5-mcrypt
<micahg> like I said, if it's in the same upstream tarball, let's make it one source
<micahg> like fftw3, boost, libav...
<jtaylor> that would be good
<TheLordOfTime> last i checked the code's in php5 upstream, wouldn't making that build a universe package imply that the entirety of php5 would become universe?
<jtaylor> but I'm not going to do it, I last used php ~10 years ago
<TheLordOfTime> or am i misinterpreting the statement you made, micahg?
<jtaylor> no, you just duplicate the source
<jtaylor> one for main which builds php
<jtaylor> the other for universe which builts the exxtensions
<TheLordOfTime> ahhh, i see.
<jtaylor> see e.g. fftw and fftw-mpi both the same source
<jtaylor> just build different things
<micahg> jtaylor: can you look at a python multiarch patch for me?
<jtaylor> sure
<micahg> jtaylor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1504567/
<jtaylor> looks fine
<micahg> thanks, I"m still new at this python multiarch stuff
<jtaylor> thats another option: https://github.com/cython/cython/pull/158/files
<micahg> jtaylor: right, the wiki suggests that when get_python_inc is used
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-30
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, late reply, but thanks.  :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-31
<Laney> "Oh wow, so many packages in sync"
<Laney> <minutes pass>
 * Laney was dist-upgrading a Debian system
<jtaylor> xD
#ubuntu-motu 2014-01-02
<sontek> I'm trying to push a build to a PPA (first time) and I'm not seeing any builds happen when I go to the +builds URL
<sontek> is there a place I can check the status of a build?
<cjwatson> Which +builds URL are you talking about?
<cjwatson> You'd normally check the status of builds in a PPA using <URL to PPA>/+packages
<sontek> Yeah, I go to +packages and then click "view all builds"
<sontek> and then switch to "all states" and I see nothing
<sontek> It said "successfully uploaded packages"
<cjwatson> That would imply the builds are done
<cjwatson> What's the URL to this PPA?
<sontek> https://launchpad.net/~surveymonkey/+archive/surveymonkey
<cjwatson> OK, so all the builds are old, indeed
<cjwatson> That then suggests your upload wasn't accepted
<cjwatson> Two things: (1) check your mail for reject messages (2) make sure the upload was signed with a key registered in Launchpad, as if it wasn't you won't even get a reject message
<cjwatson> (this is basically to avoid Launchpad being a spam vector)
<sontek> ahh, I do see it got rejected
<sontek> libmemcached_1.0.16-1ubuntu2.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 1.0.16-1ubuntu2 <= 1.0.16-1+lucid1
<sontek> it sees those old ones as newer
<sontek> so I need to bump to .16-2
<cjwatson> that seems too high
<sontek> It bumped the back from -ubuntu2
<sontek> but that didn't help
<sontek> maybe because those packages are -lucid?
<sontek> I thought the build server would do the different versions
<cjwatson> 1.0.16-1ubuntu2+lucid1, I'd have thought
<sontek> Do I have to build the package per version?
<sontek> per release
<cjwatson> The version is embedded in the source package, and Launchpad doesn't modify the source package
<cjwatson> So yes you do
<sontek> So it wont take the source package and build it on precise for me
<cjwatson> Though if the builds are compatible (no ABI changes in dependent libraries or whatever) then you can build on the oldest series you care about and then copy-with-binaries to later series
<sontek> oh, can I upload binaries instead of source packages?
<cjwatson> No, but you can copy them around within Launchpad
<sontek> So right now in my changelog it has libmemcached (1.0.16-1ubuntu2) lucid; urgency=low
<sontek> I should change that to 1-ubuntu3-lucid?
<cjwatson> No
<cjwatson> 1.0.16-1ubuntu2+lucid1 (if you want it to be just greater than 1.0.16-1ubuntu2, e.g. if it has substantive changes) or 1.0.16-1ubuntu2~lucid1 (if you want it to be just less, e.g. if it's a straight backport)
<cjwatson> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#versioning has specific advice on versioning
<sontek> This is the same package thats already there, its just the one up there has a bug
<sontek> so I need to get a new version up there without the bug
<cjwatson> Oh.  Why wouldn't it just be 1.0.16-1+lucid2, then?
<cjwatson> That would be the normal scheme given what's there now
<cjwatson> And 1.0.16-1ubuntu2 doesn't exist in Ubuntu AFAICS, so it doesn't make sense to use versions that look like they're derivatives of an Ubuntu version
<cjwatson> 1.0.16-1+lucid2 seems best
<sontek> Nice, looks like thats working
<sontek> doesn't look like it marked it as superseded though
<cjwatson> It'll get round to that once the builds are done
<cjwatson> You wouldn't want to supersede when the new version isn't there yet, normally
<cjwatson> (including its binaries)
<cjwatson> You might want to review https://launchpadlibrarian.net/161401455/libmemcached_1.0.16-1%2Blucid1_1.0.16-1%2Blucid2.diff.gz and see whether that's actually what you meant to change; it looks surprisingly ... like a total packaging rewrite, for a bug fix
<cjwatson> Looks like a step backwards in a number of ways
<cjwatson> Perhaps it was inadvertently derived from an entirely different source tree?
<sontek> Yeah, I need to pull in all those changes as well. This was my first attempt at building a package, so I completely did it from scratch
<sontek> so it doesn't have all the upstream debian stuff yet
<cjwatson> That's generally a scary mistake
<sontek> It wasn't a mistake, I wanted to learn
<cjwatson> I would strongly advise starting out with the version you're trying to supersede, in nearly all circumstances
<cjwatson> Uploading it over the top of the previous version is the mistake I'm referring to ...
<cjwatson> Learning locally is fine, of course
<sontek> oh, yeah thats true
<sontek> can I remove packages after they've been uploaded?
<cjwatson> Yes, though putting the old one back is a bit more effort (though possible)
<cjwatson> I'd suggest waiting until the builds complete
<cjwatson> (They'll probably fail - the build-depends look incomplete)
<sontek> I ran the debuild and lintian stuff to test
<sontek> maybe I ran the wrong commands
<cjwatson> That's not enough if you weren't running in a clean environment
<cjwatson> I recommend sbuild
<sontek> is there a good document on doing all this?  I found lots of different sources and they all do it differently
<cjwatson> Let me hurry those builds along a bit so you can see
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild is pretty similar to the build setup I use
<sontek> ok, those builds failed
<cjwatson> They haven't failed yet
<sontek> oh, maybe not, they are still going
<sontek> So you think the best way is to download the tarball thats already there
<cjwatson> The source package, yes
<cjwatson> "dget https://launchpad.net/~surveymonkey/+archive/surveymonkey/+files/libmemcached_1.0.16-1%2Blucid1.dsc"
<cjwatson> then fix up the file name with "mv libmemcached_1.0.16-1%2Blucid1.dsc libmemcached_1.0.16-1~lucid1.dsc"
<cjwatson> (dget is in the devscripts package)
<cjwatson> er that should be "mv libmemcached_1.0.16-1%2Blucid1.dsc libmemcached_1.0.16-1+lucid1.dsc" of course
<cjwatson> ascii fail
<cjwatson> you won't be able to reuse 1.0.16-1+lucid2 now, but you can bump to 1.0.16-1+lucid3
<cjwatson> huh, those builds are getting further than I expected :)
<sontek> https://launchpad.net/~surveymonkey/+archive/surveymonkey/+files/  gives 404, how were you able to get the filename?
<sontek> I tested them locally, so I'd expect them to build all the way through
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~surveymonkey/+archive/surveymonkey/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=lucid
<sontek> That doesn't show the source file name
<cjwatson> it does if you press the expander triangle
<cjwatson> under "Package files"
<sontek> ahh, I see it, so I just need the .dsc and that figures everything else out
<cjwatson> dget will fetch the others
<cjwatson> or you can download manually if you prefer - you need .dsc, .debian.tar.gz, .orig.tar.gz
<cjwatson> anyhow, to answer your earlier question, you can either upload a version that's derived from the former one, or else there's a "Delete packages" link and then once it's processed the deletion you can use https://launchpad.net/~surveymonkey/+archive/surveymonkey/+copy-packages to copy an old version back in; switch "Published" to "Any status" and press Filter to find the old version, leave the destination PPA at "This PPA" and the ...
<cjwatson> ... destination series at "The same series", and change "Copy options" to "Copy existing binaries"
<cjwatson> ah, there we go, those builds failed indeed
<sontek> gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<sontek> Validation FAILED!!
<sontek> when doing dget
<cjwatson> either get the public key of the person who signed the previous upload, or check the contents in some other way
<sontek> Wouldn't they have to put the key public for it to sign and upload?
<cjwatson> -# upstream does not ship a stable make test, or one suitable for running in
<cjwatson> -# a build farm, so we have to skip it. We aren't patching any of the code
<sontek> I add to do send-keys
<cjwatson> -# so any library failures are directly a result of upstream bugs
<cjwatson> -override_dh_auto_test:
<cjwatson> -	echo "skipping tests"
<cjwatson> that part of the diff from the previous version to yours is no doubt responsible :)
<cjwatson> they would have had to push their key to Launchpad in order to upload
<cjwatson> So I would assume it's http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x8E9C15287F3F8CB2F64FBAE86452957424F90553&op=index
<cjwatson> (from https://launchpad.net/~msabramo)
<cjwatson> in which case you can grab it with "gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 8E9C15287F3F8CB2F64FBAE86452957424F90553"
<sontek> dscverify: libmemcached_1.0.16-1%2Blucid1.dsc failed signature check:
<sontek> gpg: Signature made Fri 08 Nov 2013 06:48:39 AM PST using RSA key ID 24F90553
<sontek> gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<sontek> gpg --list-keys |grep 24F90553
<sontek> pub   2048R/24F90553 2013-11-06
<cjwatson> oh, blah, dscverify is checking against a different keyring
<cjwatson> "dscverify --no-default-keyrings libmemcached_1.0.16-1%2Blucid1.dsc" will verify it against your normal keyrings
<cjwatson> then you can fix up the filename ("mv libmemcached_1.0.16-1%2Blucid1.dsc libmemcached_1.0.16-1+lucid1.dsc", as above) and unpack it with "dpkg-source -x libmemcached_1.0.16-1+lucid1.dsc"
<sontek> http://paste2.org/YZLp1NwE
<cjwatson> Did you delete those other files or something?
<cjwatson> Just download them again
<sontek> I didn't download any files other than .dsc
<sontek> I'm trying to use dget to get all of them
<cjwatson> I'm afraid I'm running out of steam, I need to go back to bed
<cjwatson> You should have enough information to get the source package one way or another :)
<sontek> No worries, you were very helpful, I'll do some searching to see what dget is trying to do with this verification
<sontek> its definitely not using what gpg uses
<cjwatson> It's now verified the signature properly, so you just need to grab the other files
<cjwatson> Read the error closely - it's not anything to do with gpg at this point, it's that the mentioned files don't exist locally
<cjwatson> So the simplest fix is just to grab them and re-run dscverify --no-default-keyrings
<sontek> yeah, I was trying to use dget to get it all
<sontek> I was able to tell it not to verify by doing ~/.devscripts DGET_VERIFY=no
<sontek> but the files its trying to get 404
<sontek> So I'm just going to do it manually :P
<jtaylor> grr a bug in the upstream numpy tarball creation means I need to a MIR for python-numpydoc :/
<Laney> you could generate your own orig
<jtaylor> that or multiple tarball is probably a better way
<jtaylor> hm own tarball means I need to mess with bzr again :(
<jtaylor> oh well git snapshot is probably better than my stack of 9 patches I was planning to do :)
<michagogo|cloud> What does MIR stand for again?
<jtaylor> main inclusion request
<jtaylor> not mir the display manager
<jtaylor> or whatever it is
<michagogo|cloud> Why does a bug in upstream tarballs mean that the package needs to be in main?
<jtaylor> upstream forgot to add a submodule to the tarball (why won't git fix that ...)
<jtaylor> the content of the submodule is also in python-numpydoc which is a separate source package
<jtaylor> fine in debian, not in ubuntu as numpydoc is universe
<foxx> hello motus. i have a question r.e. packaging/fakechroot, which has been bugging me for days. whenever i use "fakechroot fakeroot" with deboostrap, the second stage always seems to apply the wrong prefix to symlinks.. i.e.  ls -lah home/foxx/wtf/etc/nologin shows "wtf/etc/nologin -> /home/foxx/wtf/var/lib/initscripts/nologin", so its applying full absolute path to symlinks in second stage
<foxx> rather than "/". this is breaking some of my packaging scripts which use fakechroot combined with debootstrap. can anyone think of any way to stop this sort of behavior from happening? any help would be much appreciated.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-01-03
<Zhenech> what's to do to get a package from "proposed" to "release" in trusty?
<cjwatson> Zhenech: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
<cjwatson> Zhenech: What package are you concerned about?
<Zhenech> yabause
<Zhenech> i guess its because of the missing armhf binary?
<cjwatson> Yes, blocked on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yabause/0.9.13-2/+build/5380393
<cjwatson> Because it built on armhf before so this is a regression
<Zhenech> ok
<Zhenech> will fix the build then
<cjwatson> cool
<Zhenech> we have a patch up-up-stream for that already
<Zhenech> i just did not think armhf matters that mutch :)
<cjwatson> regressions matter
<cjwatson> if it hadn't built on armhf before, it would have been ok
<Zhenech> ok, coolio, thanks for the input
<rbasak> 'glReadBuffer' was not declared in this scope
<rbasak> Is that a GL vs. GLES issue?
<cjwatson> no problem
<cjwatson> rbasak: I wasn't going to bother debugging it since Zhenech said there was a patch upstream already
<Zhenech> rbasak, yes it is
<rbasak> Oh OK. Never mind then. I missed that.
<Zhenech> patch would be https://github.com/Guillaumito/yabause/commit/10fe4f1dd00597dbfd650ada27e91c18e18000fb :)
<xnox> Zhenech: hm, that's a useful patch, i think there are a few other packages where it might apply and enable armhf builds on ubuntu.
<Zhenech> xnox, steal it (as you always do :P)
<Zhenech> (inspired by http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/bZBuS3XWJLFo3zSLfDNC, fwiw)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-01-04
<xnox> Rhonda: that's the one I wanted.
<Rhonda> Thought so.
<Rhonda> I think I need to tweak something btw.
<xnox> Rhonda: is there a way to "optimise" that? think of the CO2
<Rhonda> robots.txt?  ;)
<xnox> well we still want it indexed right?
<Rhonda> Well, actually I wouldn't want to prevent that, because it makes sense that it can be found. (hopefully)
<Rhonda> There has to be done something anyway.
<Rhonda> The codebase for Debian wants to get switched to a postgres backend.
<Rhonda> And I'm uncertain whether that option is also open for Ubuntu.
<Rhonda> I hope so, but I guess I have to speak with someone if we manage to get it into some useful state.
<xnox> Rhonda: what do you mean postgres backend? as in it will put it's data into postgres, or you mean like talking to dak's postgres db?
<Rhonda> Nope, rather the former.
<Rhonda> There were actually ideas about using projectb as data backend, but I'm not sure if it really was pursued.
<Rhonda> We all agreed that bdb files have to go for good though. :)
<ochosi> hey everyone! we're having some shortfall on xubuntu uploaders due to real life commitments. we still want to make xubuntu 14.04 a great LTS release, and we'd need some help with uploading packages as well as possibly some help with packaging itself. are there people who'd like to help us here and there during the following months?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-01-05
<xnox> ochosi: sure.
<xnox> ochosi: please subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the bug reports (if it's debdiffs) or request reviews on merge-proposals from ~ubuntu-branches
<xnox> ochosi: if that stalls, feel free to ping me on irc or via email.
<xnox> ochosi: emails best sent to ubuntu-motu mailing list, which i monitor.
<Unit193> Hrm, conflict between Ubuntu and Debian source packages 'tomahawk' https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomahawk - http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/tomahawk.html would mean we don't get the Debian one until the Ubuntu one isn't conflicting.
<jtaylor> hm why can't my trusty find python-pil, it should be in the pillow source
<jtaylor> arg I'm a moron, was using saucy
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-29
<Rhonda> Rejected:
<Rhonda> PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket.
<Rhonda> This is what I tried: backportpackage -u ppa-wesnoth-backport-tests -s vivid -d utopic wesnoth-1.12
<geser> try adding "-r" to the call (it forces the release pocket instead of -backports which isn't supported by PPA)
<Rhonda> The whole thing took ages  *sigh*
<Rhonda> Generation of the source package, uploading that big chunk of data, â¦  *sigh*
<Rhonda> "and the default, when the upload target is a PPA" - so why didn't it default to it then  :/
<Rhonda> ah.  requires to use ppa: as naming scheme
<Rhonda> Well. Will do it later when I don't need the bandwith for something else.
 * Laney tries to process Rhonda's backport
<Laney> "backportpackage: Downloading wesnoth-1.12_1.12.0.orig.tar.bz2 from archive.ubuntu.com (367.574 MiB)" â oh shit, ctrl-c
 * Laney is on capped parentnet
<Laney> Rhonda: if you want to upload it then I can accept ;-)
<Laney> backportpackage -w . -u ubuntu -c 1406234 -s vivid -d utopic wesnoth-1.12
<Rhonda> <nelson point="Laney">HA HA!</nelson>
<Rhonda> What's -c?
<geser> --close=BUG
<Rhonda> ah, of course :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-30
<alkisg> Hi, I want to include some file called "someconfig.in" in my package, which will contain a line like "my arch is @ARCH@", and the @ARCH@ will be replaced with the compile-time architecture.
<alkisg> The rest of the package files are in shell or python, nothing gets compiled so we're not using autotools etc yet
<alkisg> Where should I look? What part processes .in files? Is that autotools?
<sney> that is
<alkisg> Thanks, googling... :)
<geser> are you wanting to include this upstream or only in your packaging?
<alkisg> I'm both upstream and packager, so I guess it would be better to include it upstream
<alkisg> Would a simple makefile be enough, since I only want that one simple thing?
<alkisg> With some sed expression inside to replace ARCH?
<geser> yes
<Rhonda> Laney: uploaded for utopic, not yet for trusty, it's pending for when I don't need the bandwidth. :)
<psusi> how do you slap bzr upside the head and get it to stop unapplying quilt patches all the time?  I can find nothing about bzr and quilt in the documentation or web.
 * alkisg can't find an $ARCH variable in Makefiles...
<alkisg> If I have to find it myself with shell, dpkg --print-architecture etc, then why would I use make instead of a plain #!/bin/sh file?
<geser> it's up to you if you use a Makefile for the sed call or use a shell script to do the same
<alkisg> geser: not for the sed call, but for detecting the build architecture
<alkisg> E.g. amd64 in debian vs x86_64 in other distros
<alkisg> I wouldn't want to use distro-specific code there, would I?
<alkisg> In some distributions I would see it with `uname -m`, in debian-based distros with `dpkg --print-architecture`, but it sounds like a very common problem, I would assume a more elegant solution would be available...
<alkisg> Oh well, if we're going to have distro-specific code anyway to detect the target arch, we can just leave the `sed /s/@ARCH@/$ARCH/` part up to the packaging process...
#ubuntu-motu 2015-01-01
<Unit193> Logan_: ...Think you'd consider a synergy update that fixes two bugs (new upstream release) if I dropped a few changes?  (Already contacted the Debian maintainer.)
<Unit193> (And generally Ubuntuized it.)
<Logan_> Unit193: the Debian maintainer isn't working on packaging the new upstream release?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-01-02
<Unit193> Logan_: He could be, but haven't seen or heard anything in a month.
<Rhonda> Laney: Anything more you need from me?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-01-03
<Laney> Rhonda: should be in
#ubuntu-motu 2016-01-04
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2016-01-05
<pindonga> hi, I'm trying to create a new package and I'm getting a lintian error I don't know how to fix
<pindonga> the errors is about: copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl
<pindonga> the pkg is licensed under AGPL-3 which lintian doesn't seem to understand
<pindonga> what can I do?
<rbasak> pindonga: what license shortname did you use? Pastebin your debian/copyright perhaps?
<pindonga> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14410997/
<rbasak> pindonga: it says "See the GNU General Public License for more details". Perhaps it should say Affero there?
<rbasak> pindonga: that would be an upstream issue, but perhaps you are upstream here and in a position to fix it?
<rbasak> pindonga: that text mismatches http://spdx.org/licenses/AGPL-3.0.html#licenseText
<rbasak> (the Standard License Header bit at the botoom)
<rbasak> pindonga: also, since AGPL-3 isn't in common-licenses, you need to include the full text of it in debian/copyright, not just the top bit. Unless you're shipping it separately in /usr/share/doc/.../ I suppose, but the usual way is to include it in its entirety in debian/copyright.
<pindonga> rbasak, thx will do those fixes and see how it behaves
<pindonga> rbasak, thx! that fixed it
<rbasak> \o/
<pindonga> hi again.. I'm trying to build a pkg for python3 and it complains that argparse can't be downloaded
<pindonga> however argparse is part of python3
<pindonga> here's a sample of the error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14412851/
<pindonga> any ideas?
<mitya57> pindonga: do you have a link to the source?
<pindonga> mitya57, I don't have it all uploaded for I'm first trying to get it to build cleanly
<pindonga> but I can paste whatever info you need
<mitya57> pindonga, I suspect you have something like argparse in test requires in setup.py
<pindonga> nope, I don't
<mitya57> If you paste setup.py that would be helpful :)
<pindonga> I've grepped the whole tree
<pindonga> no matches for argparse
<mitya57> and setup.cfg if it exists
<pindonga> sure, sec
<pindonga> actually, I've just pushed the remaining bits to the branch: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ricardokirkner/click-toolbelt/debian/files
 * mitya57 looks
<mitya57> pindonga, do you have stevedore locally installed?
<mitya57> I think stevedore-1.10.0-py3.4.egg/EGG-INFO/requires.txt:argparse is to blame
<pindonga> dpkg -l '*python3-stevedore*' shows 1.5.0-2 is installed
<mitya57> and one more: cliff-1.15.0-py3.4.egg/EGG-INFO/requires.txt:argparse
<pindonga> 1.14.0-1ubuntu1
<mitya57> So their requires.txt are wrong
<pindonga> indeed
<pindonga> just confirmed the system-level files also mention argparse there
<pindonga> so I guess that's a bug on those pkgs?
<pindonga> well
<pindonga> maybe not, maybe they're just not python3 compatible?
<pindonga> argparse is certainly needed for py2 compat
<mitya57> It also exists in 2.7
<pindonga> so, what should I do?
<pindonga> file a bug on ubuntu for these pkgs? upstream?
<pindonga> any way I can tell pybuild to ignore argparse?
<mitya57> Maybe check if it still exists upstream, if yes file a bug upstream, if no ask the maintainers to backport the change
<pindonga> ack
<mitya57> For stevedore I still see it in https://github.com/openstack/stevedore/blob/master/requirements.txt
<pindonga> same for cliff
<pindonga> so those should be updated upstream, the re-packaged for xenial?
<barry> mitya57, pindonga in the meantime, it does seem like both stevedore and cliff require standalone argparse (pip installing them into a py3 venv installs std-alone argparse), but neither ubuntu package declares a dependency on python3-argparse.  regardless of upstream, i'd say those are bugs in the debian packages (note that cliff has an ubuntu delta from debian, so it's worth checking if it's fixed there).
<barry> mitya57, pindonga a fix for click-toolbelt is just to include the {Build-,}Depends in that package's d/control
<barry> oh yeah, haha.  there is no python3-argparse, so yeah, i'd say those debian packages need fixing
<pindonga> barry, yes, I checked for python3-argparse as the first thing ;-)
<pindonga> the alternative is to package python3-argparse, but that doesn't seem like the right way to go
<barry> pindonga: no, i don't think it is
#ubuntu-motu 2016-01-06
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> barry, isn't pypi argparse compatible with standard library argparse?
<barry> mitya57: yes, i believe it is
<pindonga> mitya57, it's essentially a stdalone version for python < 2.7 and < 3.2 (those don't include argparse in the stdlib)
<pindonga> but the stdlib version is the preferred one
<pindonga> so for python 2.7 and 3.2+ argparse should not really be packaged separately
<pindonga> mitya57, barry I've submitted patches for both stevedore and cliff to upstream to remove argparse from requirements.txt
<pindonga> now we need to wait for that to be accepted
<barry> pindonga: and/or patch the debian versions of those packages
<pindonga> right, I was going to ask about that
<pindonga> would that be sensible? (to write a patch that sed's argparse away before packaging)
<pindonga> ?
<barry> pindonga: probably just a simple quilt patch would do in both cases, but i haven't looked at them in detail.  stevedore is owned by the debian openstack team and cliff is owned by the dpmt
<barry> pindonga: at the very least, you should probably file debian bugs against both packages
<pindonga> ack
<pindonga> barry, looks like the latest one in sid is already patched?
<pindonga> python-stevedore has a py3dist-overrides file that contains a single line: argparse
<pindonga> I guess that's essentially telling to exclude argparse?
<barry> pindonga: only at stevedore's build time iirc
 * barry wonders if that would work for click-toolbelt
<pindonga> barry, to add a similar file to click-toolbelt itself?
<pindonga> I can try that
<pindonga> barry, mitya57 I wasn't successful, but I'm not sure if it's bc it's not possible or bc of my lack of packaging skills
<pindonga> I believe the problem is that py3dist-overrides only works for the package that has the dependency (in this case, python3-stevedore and python3-cliff)
<mitya57> pindonga, right, I think py3dist-overrides has no effect on generated requirements.txt files
<mitya57> So please file bugs.
<pindonga> mitya57, on debian?
<pindonga> or for ubuntu?
<pindonga> mitya57, the python3-stevedore source pkg has a py3dist-overrides for argparse (both in debian and ubuntu)
<pindonga> shouldn't that work?
<mitya57> bugs â on debian bts
<mitya57> pindonga, the py3dist-overrides is needed for dh_python3 to generate correct ${python3:Depends} on build time
<mitya57> It has *no* effect on any files, one needs a patch to fix requirements.txt
<pindonga> mitya57, ack
<pindonga> ah! looks like stevedore already has a bug filed for this
<pindonga> less work for me :)
<mitya57> Oh, it's even release-critical
<pindonga> mitya57, ok, created a bug for python3-cliff as well
<mitya57> Nice!
<mitya57> pindonga, will you mind if I update the found version in your bug so that BTS can understand it?
<pindonga> please dop
<pindonga> do
#ubuntu-motu 2016-01-07
<dholbach> good morning
<sladen> Morgen
<Laney> hallo
#ubuntu-motu 2016-01-08
<sladen> Morgen!
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Hmm.  If I have an alternative Build-Depends in one of my package and the first one isn't fulfillable, would the ubuntu build system pull in the second?
<Rhonda> That is, Build-Depends: foo | bar,  if foo is not available, would it pull bar?  Because Debian doesn't, I was wondering if Ubuntu supports that.
<geser> Rhonda: there were some bugs with ORed Build-Depends in the past but the bug is marked as fixed, so I assume it should work now
<Rhonda> Because that might be the chance to get rid of the ubuntu diff for irssi then.
<Rhonda> If I do something like Build-Depends: dnsval | base-files
<Unit193> Does the buildd know that if the first isn't in main, go for the one that is?
<Rhonda> I would assume that the buildd for packages in main does only has main in the sources.list?
<Rhonda> Or is that a wrong assumption?
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> (indeed they do)
<Rhonda> # The Uncomplicated Firewall is a front-end for iptables, to make managing a
<Rhonda> # Netfilter firewall easier.
<Rhonda> How is it uncomplicated if I'm unable to find out how to add a filter rule.  Oo
<Rhonda> Ah, found it.
<highvoltage> in software, the terms "uncomplicated", "lightweight" and "simple" are always used ironically.
<Rhonda> highvoltage: The ironic part here was even: handcrafted iptables script, ufw not used.  :P
#ubuntu-motu 2017-01-02
<dylan__> Hi
<dylan__> The galileo package in Yakkety is unusable due to the bug LP: #1650046. Since I am the Debian maintainer of this package, I posted a very simple patch for yakkety.
<dylan__> Could someone do an SRU to fix this bug in Yakkety?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1650046 in galileo (Ubuntu Yakkety) "application doesn't sync, it needs to be updated." [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1650046
<dylan__> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2017-01-04
<fossfreedom_> Hi all - please can someone have a look at our (on behalf of Ubuntu Budgie) zesty patch review request please? TIA https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/budgie-desktop/+bug/1653739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1653739 in budgie-desktop (Ubuntu) "budgie-desktop needs to display the nm-applet icon in the panel" [Undecided,In progress]
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: that looks fine. I didn't think there was any such thing as an "X11 tray icon" though? I was under the impression that they were done via GNOME's stuff or something (as opposed to the indicator infrastructure).
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: a second thought: shouldn't this be fixed in our delta against nm-applet, rather than working around it in Budgie?
<rbasak> For example is it possible to detect at runtime whether indicators are in use?
<fossfreedom_> rbasak: I like the idea of rejigging nm-applet to detect.  However I don't really have an idea how to do this :(
<fossfreedom_> I mentioned X11 in the description simply because that is how upstream refers to the tray applet in budgie-desktop.
<fossfreedom_> Probably overthinking ... may not be possible to say in nm-applet "is app indicators in use" - the indicator service can be running - but the user might have simply removed the appindicator applet from the desktop.  Sounds to be a bit messy.
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: OK. Where do you want me to sponsor the patch from? The attachment is only the quilt patch, not a debdiff, and I want to make sure you get full credit to help for your future upload access :-)
<fossfreedom_> ah - ok - I'll generate a debdiff from these instructions (http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/traditional-packaging.html) tonight and attach it to the bug-report.
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: OK. Please subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors after you do, and feel free to ping me if it isn't getting done.
<fossfreedom_> will do - cheers
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: also it may be worth filing a bug against network-manager-applet asking for better handling of this in the long term - if only to have a discussion and find out what the intention is (eg. if everyone else is supposed/required to maintain a delta as a consequence or not).
<fossfreedom_> sounds like a very good idea.  Will do that now.
<fossfreedom_> Hi all.  please can someone have a look at our (on behalf of Ubuntu Budgie) zesty merge proposal into the ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu package please? TIA https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1644976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1644976 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "ubuntu budgie slideshow proposal" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-motu 2017-01-06
<fossfreedom_> rbasak: thing everyone on MOTU must still be on holiday!  Any chance you can push our budgie-desktop patch please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/budgie-desktop/+bug/1653739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1653739 in budgie-desktop (Ubuntu) "budgie-desktop needs to display the nm-applet icon in the panel" [Medium,In progress]
<fossfreedom_> thing == think
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: the debdiff looks fine. Have you tested that it works and builds?
<fossfreedom_> rbasak: aye - have indeed.  Works nicely.
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: I think the changelog message could be improved a little. It's a useful goal for the summary of what you are changing to also imply why it needs fixing in an Ubuntu delta. Eg. "Run nm-applet without indicators to ensure it works on Budgie, flipping Ubuntu's default"
<rbasak> In part because I object to the term "X11 system tray", which AFAIK doesn't exist either.
<rbasak> fossfreedom_: I won't make you change it if you prefer your version though.
<fossfreedom_> rbasak: ok - will do that. cheers.
<fossfreedom> Hi - anyone around?  I'm keen to get this patch in to the build of budgie-desktop asap - this will help with testing.  cheers - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/budgie-desktop/+bug/1653739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1653739 in budgie-desktop (Ubuntu) "budgie-desktop needs to display the nm-applet icon in the panel" [Medium,In progress]
<rbasak> fossfreedom: done.
<fossfreedom> rbasak: you are a star. cheers!
#ubuntu-motu 2018-01-01
<n3zzd0g> I create a new "[needs-packaging] sstp-client", added comments on where to find the 'debian' package on launchpad. There is a PPA where the package is built for xenial, zesty, artful and bionic. What do I do next?
