#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-20
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hi charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<ochosi> the problems with the panel plugins (verve,dict) are not entirely solved, but mr_pouit and me concluded that there could be bugs in the plugins themselves
<ochosi> i think i've done everything on the theme-side... :/
<charlie-tca> Thanks for trying on that. It might be the plugins, too.
<charlie-tca> I can read the text in dict plugin using clearlooks, though
<ochosi> sure, you can read text with any theme with a bright panel
<ochosi> cause they use dark text ;)
<ochosi> i basically figured out how to theme the rest of the panel bright and the plugins dark where needed, but it really seems to be due to bad/old code in the two plugins
<charlie-tca> Oh, Okay. I can believe that
<charlie-tca> That makes sense to me
<ochosi> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-21
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<davmor2> lo charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, davmor2 
<j1mc> hi charlie-tca 
<j1mc> hi davmor2 
<charlie-tca> Hello, j1mc 
<davmor2> j1mc: Hey dude
<j1mc> i'm off to le jorb.  :)  you all have a great day.
<charlie-tca> Try to enjoy it ;-)
<ochosi> mr_pouit, charlie-tca: just wanted to quickly stop by and say that i vote in favor of keeping the elementary icon theme
<ochosi> i have quite good support upstream which means that our changes to the icon theme (for xfce 4.7/4.8) are a lot more sustainable than a fork of faenza
<ochosi> daniel forÃ© (creator of the icon theme) said that he's willing to include whatever xfce-stuff i send his way
<ochosi> so i guess it makes sense to keep it
<ochosi> i'd appreciate your feedback on this
<ochosi> will be back later/another day
<ochosi> g2g now
<charlie-tca> I don't have an opinion either way. Whatever is easiest is fine with me
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-22
<blupp> hallo
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, I can approve most xubuntu bug nominations if you need something
<micahg> also, there's a meeting tomorrow, but not the 30th, or the other way around? 
<charlie-tca> Okay, great! I usually just wait for mr_pouit to catch them
<charlie-tca> no meeting tomorrow
<micahg> ok
<charlie-tca> Went through my 200 new/incomplete bugs. Working the Xubuntu lists now
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-23
<charlie-tca> Happy Holidays :-)
<charlie-tca> powerpc image still oversized, but Xubuntu images are no longer oversized!
<charlie-tca> 64bit desktop image installed, but notifications closed during the installation
<pleia2> happy holidays, charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> Wow! 3d support in VirtualBox 4.0 with guest additions installed
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-24
<charlie-tca> Merry christmas and / or Happy holidays to everyone!
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-19
<micahg> anyone else having their screen lock up in precise while the screensaver is active?
<knome> let me fix that for you
<knome> anyone else having precise?
<micahg> knome: :P
<micahg> ooh, kernel/Xorg hang
<knome> pleia2, ?
<pleia2> knome: hm?
<knome> http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:natty_publicity
<knome> i suppose those should be moved to xubuntu.org/press
<pleia2> ah, nice
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> thanks, I'll add that to my others this evening after work
<knome> okay, thanks
<knome> when you've done that, can you delete the page on my wiki (edit and save with no content)
<micahg> knome: do we have a meeting scheduled?
<knome> micahg, nope. i'm afraid we might not be able to have one before christmas, maybe between that and the new year
<micahg> knome: ok, I was going to say I can't make it Thursday :)
<knome> hehe
<micahg> knome: can we have one scheduled then at some point?  Next TB meeting is Jan 9 and it would be nice to request Xubuntu LTS status then 
<knome> yeah.
<knome> i will announce the next meeting today
 * micahg also has to chat with mr_pouit about the abiword stuff
<micahg> knome: thanks
<knome> which days are okay for you after xmas?
<micahg> what time?
<knome> 17-19utc'ish
<micahg> all should be fine I think
<knome> looks like 29th makes most sense for me
<knome> so that it probably is
<micahg> ok, that should work I think
<knome> yeppers
<mr_pouit> I'm in vacation after xmas, so I should be able to attend,  at last ;>
<knome> nice!
 * micahg is also on vacation then
<micahg> knome: do we have an agenda page?
<mr_pouit> for abiword, that sync is a bit unfortunate
<knome> micahg, see email
<micahg> heh, I saw it, but didn't read it apparently :)
<knome> ;)
<knome> yeah, our agenda is pretty short now (yay!)
<GridCube> greetings
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-20
<pleia2> knome: done!
<pleia2> ok, udpated /press for 11.10 now too
<knome> pleia2, nice!
<GridCube> pleia2, :D Thanks for the post card :D
 * GridCube has xubuntu stickers now too
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> glad they made it!
<GridCube> :D yes they did, walking on the streets with 33ÂºC and i got a snowman waiting on the mailbox :D
<pleia2> hehe
<GridCube> :) than you very much
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-21
<ochosi> knome: what do you think of this replacement for the current xfwm4-icon (in settings-manager): http://imagebin.org/189667
<knome> ochosi, i'm not sure. is the window shaded?
<ochosi> knome: well kinda. i wanted to focus on the decoration, i think any window content would make the icon less clear
<knome> i suppose, but what about just grey block?
<knome> anybody testing 12.04 available?
<ochosi> hm, i can try, but i think it might look odd
<knome> maybe
<knome> or then just remove the BG-image
<knome> just draw the window :)
<knome> (== replace BG-image with grey)
<ochosi> looks empty: http://imagebin.org/189701
<knome> don't use white, use grey
<knome> also, what does that look in context?
<knome> isn't that what matters most :)
<ochosi> grey: http://imagebin.org/189702
<knome> mmmh. maybe little lighter
<knome> but i think that's okayish
<knome> you could add some "text" in it like the notification icon
<knome> or textboxes
<knome> something very subtle
<knome> i can draw that too if you want
<ochosi> in context: http://imagebin.org/189703
<ochosi> (and brighter grey)
<ochosi> yeah, if you could that'd be nice
<ochosi> i'm not sure i have a good idea of what you would wanna do
<knome> oki, just a sec, i'll fix the meeting agenda first
<ochosi> another option is to show more than one window
<ochosi> a bit like in sessions and startup
<ochosi> or just two windows stacked on top of each other
<ochosi> i think the wm-tweaks should then also be changed accordingly
<ochosi> i like the wand-metaphor though
<knome> mmh
<knome> i think the xfwm part in that icon looks a bit big
<ochosi> you mean the close,max,min buttons?
<ochosi> or the window-border as a whole
<knome> as whole
<knome> let me start a *cough* image editor
<knome> what's the image size again?
<ochosi> 48px
<knome> oki
<ochosi> do you want the svg?
<knome> nope
<knome> going pixel-editing
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_icons/win_man.jpg
<knome> textboxes could be more sublte
<knome> *subtle
<ochosi> mm, doesn't look half-bad
<ochosi> i think subtler textboxes would be better
<ochosi> window-content shouldn't stand out too much
<knome> yup
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_icons/win_man-2.jpg
<ochosi> hm, i'm thinking whether an "ok" button in the bottom-right corner would look good
<ochosi> i mean in general it's already nice
<knome> heh
<ochosi> maybe "cancel" and "apply" (without the text, just empty buttons)
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_icons/win_man-3.jpg
<ochosi> is it my poor eyes or is the left one a tad smaller? :)
<ochosi> i think i like that
<knome> yup, they're the same size :P
<ochosi> k, do you wanna keep it a png or vectorize it?
<knome> might be hard to vectorize
<knome> not sure if it's worth it
<ochosi> mhm, we'll have to check whether svg and png work alongside in the icon-theme
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-22
<mr_pouit> has someone tried to use xfce4-sensors-plugin on oneiric/precise to get hdd temperatures?
<ochosi> not really, but don't you need working lmsensors for that?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i just installed the plugin, it seems to work
<mr_pouit> no, you only need hddtemp
<ochosi> or what did you wanna know specifically
<mr_pouit> if the plugin can display hdd temps he got from hddtemp ;-)
<mr_pouit> (I've a ssd without a temp sensor, so I can't test...)
<ochosi> i also have a ssd
<ochosi> will hddtemp even work with that?
<mr_pouit> try hddtemp /dev/yourssd
<ochosi> /dev/sda: Kingston SSDNow V Series1 82BG          Â¿Â½: 0Â°C
<ochosi> so i guess the answer is no :)
<mr_pouit> huhu
<mr_pouit> okay, I'll retry this evening on my netbook then ;]
<ochosi> k :)
<mr_pouit> (that's my last system with a hdd I think)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> lucky you
<mr_pouit> yay, there should be a new xubuntu-desktop in oneiric-updates
<mr_pouit> (this time, it recommends gvfs-backends)
<ochosi> ah cool
<ochosi> otoh thunar's startup speed will drop again :/
<ochosi> (and by "drop" i mean "increase")
<mr_pouit> you can't please everyone :p
<mr_pouit> (oh, I'm supposed to package this kbdleds plugin, maybe I should test it too)
<mr_pouit> what's the status on the menu "editor"?
<ochosi> i tested it, it still has a few quirks tbh
<ochosi> but it generally works
<ochosi> the quirks being: a huge startup-lag, wrong app-icon, not showing all available applications (e.g. software-center is missing), leaving useless separators behind, no easy way to restore the default menu (think that should be a button)
<mr_pouit> maybe you should list what works instead ;p
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> well, you can add and remove bookmarks
<ochosi> *that* works :)
<knome> heh
<knome> edii, ^^
<knome> ochosi, merry christmas simon: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_icons/menu_man.jpg
<ochosi> knome: ty :)
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/.web_test/
<micahg> mr_pouit: yes, I get temps on precise
<mr_pouit> micahg: for your hdd?
<mr_pouit> interesting, because I think there's this test that is buggy: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-sensors-plugin/tree/lib/hddtemp.c#n424
<mr_pouit> major>=5 won't work on linux 3.x (in a few months maybe ;-)
<micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, AFAICT
<Unit193> I'd say it gives an error about not being root, but you didn't ask about Natty
<mr_pouit> micahg: mmh, I guess there's still something in /proc/ide for you then? (it's the deprecated method tried by the plugin, by default it tries /sys/block)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-23
<micahg> mr_pouit: no, no /proc/ide
<knome> one can't add several notes-plugins to panel :(
<ochosi> haven't tried, not using notes really
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-24
<xubuntu> anyone know how to enable xdmcp in xubuntu?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-25
<Kurdistan> hi guys I read on ubuntuforums
<Kurdistan> that xubuntu 12.04 will be support 3 years
<Kurdistan> and not 5 years like regulare ubuntu
<Kurdistan> is this true?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-17
<ochosi> micahg: quick firefox-question: the green arrow in the locationbar (i.e. the "go"-icon), is that themeable? the refresh-icons seems to be taken from the icon-theme but this icon seems to come from firefox directly
<micahg> ochosi: offhand, idk, I would think so, but I'd have to look
<ochosi> micahg: ok, well if you can or if you know someone who might know, that'd be nice. if not, no worries, it's just one tiny icon
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-19
<GridCube> knome, can we please have ubottu link people to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI when !uefi is called?
<Len-nb> Quick question. Which (if any) file search utility does Xubuntu use. It seems to me it used to be catfish, but when I tried catfish in ubuntustudio 13.04 it would not run.
<Len-nb> I was wondering if anyone has tried it in xubuntu.
<Unit193> Catfish should be default, yes.  apt-cache policy catfish | grep Task wil show you for sure.
<Len-nb> Has it been confirmed to work in 13.04 dailies?
<Unit193> I do not know, sorry.
<Len-nb> No problem, Ubuntustudio is thinking of adding back in as the search in nautilus seems to have vanished in the new version. But when I installed it, I could not start it. Running from a terminal it says it is missing something.
<Len-nb> I wanted to confirm if catfish now has a bug or if we are missing something.
<bluesabre> Hi Len-nb: Catfish relies on locate for normal searches, but uses find if you click on "Deep Search"
<bluesabre> You can update the locate database from the application's menu item "Update Search Index"
<Len-nb> ubuntustudio comes with locate. But I could not even get catfish to show a GUI.
<bluesabre> oh
<Len-nb> The install did not indicate any missing depends either.
<Len-nb> I know we had it working in 11.10, but with 12.04 we used nautilus which has it's own search.
<Len-nb> well it did... nautilus (aka files) no longer does.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> does it show an error if you try to start it from terminal?
<Len-nb> yes.
<Len-nb> Let me go downstairs and get it exactly.
<bluesabre> thanks
<len-1304> Ok, from the terminal..
<len-1304> joe@studio1304:~$ catfish 
<len-1304> Error: The required module GError is missing.
<len-1304> joe@studio1304:~$ 
<bluesabre> sudo apt-get install python-gi
<len-1304> Same error.
<bluesabre> odd
<bluesabre> I'll look into it.  Are you usually on this channel?
<len-1304> I can leave it open, if not here on #ubuntustudio-devel.
<bluesabre> alrighty, if you're not here, I'll find you there once I figure something out
<len-1304> Thankyou.
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> !uefi
<knome> !eif
<knome> !eif
<knome> ...
<knome> !efi
<knome> GridCube, please send your proposal for the factoid (...say "!uefi is <reply> Your proposal" on this channel, for example)
<knome> bbl
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> !uefi is UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware, is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<GridCube> !efi is alias !uefi
<maddernick> ochosi: ping
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-20
<ochosi> maddernick: pong
<adnan> ping
<adnan> :]
<ochosi> ping should really be preceded with or followed by a nickname
<adnan> but i'm broadcasting :(
<ochosi> what, to the world? :)
<adnan> yes
<adnan> everyone who's alive, respond :)
<bluesabre> adnan: pong
<bluesabre> :P
<adnan> <3 :)
<micahg> is there a meeting today?
<micahg> oh, that would've been last hour...
<knome> micahg, nah :)
<micahg> knome: should https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-development be milestoned for final or something else?
<knome> micahg, if we want/need to milestone it, i'd say a good goal would be final for most of the items, but not all
<micahg> knome: well, I'm trying to get it to show up in my +upcomingwork page
 * micahg guesses he has the status.ubuntu.com page
<knome> micahg, aha:)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-21
<ochosi> maddernick: ping
<maddernick> ochosi: pong
<ochosi> maddernick: heyo, have you pushed your branch
<maddernick> ochosi: i need to change my launchpad ssh key to push using bzr
<maddernick> I have not gotten around to that yet
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> anyway, ping me when you get to pushing it
<maddernick> will do
<ElderDryas> I'm having a discussion in another venue about the xfce Mail Watcher plugin in xcfe 4.10.  Was there any problem getting it to compile/work for xubuntu 12.10/xfce 4.10?
<Unit193> adnan: Pong.
<adnan> Unit193, ping
<len-1304> bluesabre, Downloaded xubuntu to see if catfish works there, but got bit by Bug #1090212 
<ubottu> bug 1090212 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Raring) "usb-creator doesn't open" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1090212
<len-xu> Testing catfish on the xubuntu daily iso (yesterdays) and it has the same problem as on ubuntustudio. Bug #1093015 
<ubottu> bug 1093015 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Error: The required module GError is missing." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093015
<len-xu> The 13.04 live session looks nice BTW
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-22
<len-xu> On sound interfaces that PA does not directly control the levels of such as my ice1712 based d66 there is no GUI way of  getting sound. alsamixer in a terminal works though.
<len-xu> Not a big problem. it is a set once deal for most uses.
<ochosi> maddernick: ping
<maddernick> ochosi: pong (didnt push, got drunk)
<ochosi> ehehe
<maddernick> ochosi: if you got the file
<maddernick> could you push?
<ochosi> i guess
<maddernick> 1 sec
<ochosi> but in the longer run, it'd be good if you updated your key
<maddernick> indeed
<maddernick> http://31.192.230.130:1337/xubuntu-logo.script
<ochosi> so what does it do with the wallpaper exactly?
<maddernick> it scales it in 1 of 2 ways
<ochosi> ah
<maddernick> depending on what ratio is the biggest
<ochosi> ok, that's different from xfdesktop i guess
<maddernick> root win vs image
<maddernick> it is?
<ochosi> xfdesktop zooms the wallpaper
<maddernick> hm
<ochosi> i think i mentioned that recently when we talked about the meaning of "auto"
<maddernick> I asked about meaning of auto, i dont recall getting an answer
<ochosi> i said this yesterday:
<ochosi> 16:10  ochosi$ maddernick: "auto" chooses tiled if the image size is half the monitor size, else it acts as zoomed.
<maddernick> The old script, would make the wallpaper fully stretched
<maddernick> oh
<maddernick> ochosi: okay ill make sure to do that instead then
<ochosi> actually the "auto"-mode will be dropped from xfdesktop (although i'm not sure that'll affect 13.04), but i still think zoom is a good mode
<ochosi> that'd be nice!
<ochosi> i also thought i could whip up some pngs for the animation
<maddernick> awesome
<ochosi> if it's a spinner, are you gonna rotate it in the script or do you need pngs for the different phases?
<maddernick> i could rotate it in script
<ochosi> ok, then i'll try to do something and we can test it
<ochosi> i vaguely remember you did screencasts of it last time
<maddernick> yup
<maddernick> I can do that
<ochosi> do you think you could do that again once we have something that works?
<maddernick> we did have a spinner
<ochosi> oh cool 
<maddernick> Before aswell, but it was voted down
<ochosi> yeah, not sure why we didn't use it :p
<maddernick> (you and knome didnt agree ;))
<ochosi> yeah, it's been a while now, i think i can try again with a nice spinner
<maddernick> oki
<ochosi> just have to settle on a style
<ochosi> (e.g. flower-style vs. comet-style)
<ochosi> knome: are you aroundÃ
<ochosi> knome: are you around?
<maddernick> ochosi: when i look at tiled in xfdesk, it seems it means that it blits entire bg even if its too big, so i assume it would repeat the bg if image was very small?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but i'd say implementing zoomed is enogh
<ochosi> enough
<ochosi> because we never will ship a wp so small that it needs to be tiled
<ochosi> it's more about handling various resolutions gracefully
<maddernick> and zoom and stretch seems to be the same thing (looks identical), so i assume it goes by percentage rather than stretching for real?
<ochosi> depends what stretched means for you
<ochosi> if stretched = scaled, then stretched != zoomed :)
<maddernick> for me, stretch is what we currently have
<maddernick> ye
<maddernick> i think i have enough info now :>
<ochosi> i thought currently we scale the bg
<ochosi> zoomed is what vlc does when you say "crop" :)
<maddernick> well, the script i link does
<maddernick> okay
<ochosi> ok, well if your script already crops/stretches/zooms, then that's dandy! :)
<maddernick> crop is ratio based
<maddernick> which is what i do, but i will investigate anyway
<maddernick> basically: ratio of screen, ratio of bg, if screen ratio > bg ratio, produce the scale factor on height, otherwise width
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that makes sense
<maddernick> but is that what we want?
<maddernick> If so, we can start with spinner :)
<ochosi> yeah, i don't see any downsides right now, you?
<maddernick> nope
<maddernick> Ill make sure to fix the black + animation bug aswell
<ochosi> cool
<knome> ochosi, now i am
<knome> ochosi, maddernick ?
<knome> maddernick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/raring_plymouth/circular-throbber.png <- there's a little something for you there. spin it around the image center, and it should be fine
<maddernick> knome: under the logo?
<knome> maddernick, well, we got to discuss this. that's the reason we didn't go for a circular thobber before (hard to place)
<knome> but i suppose you could put it anywhere for PoC
<maddernick> okay
<knome> i assume it's easy enough to move it later
<maddernick> knome: looks like a worm :>
<knome> heh
<maddernick> let me see if i an upl a video of it
<knome> sure
<maddernick> knome: http://31.192.230.130:1337/spinner.ogg
<knome> lemme see
<knome> i suppose that is what ochosi was after
<knome> if we want to make it better, i have the sources in svg so it's easy enough to change
<maddernick> We can adjust speed etc
<knome> yup, i think maybe something slower, but ochosi is the art lead, so i'll let him decide the details
<maddernick> okay
<ochosi> knome: where did you dig up that worm? :)
<knome> ochosi, i created it in inkscape
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether it should be so compact
<ochosi> i mentioned that before, it's kinda the "comet-style" (as opposed to the "flower-style")
<knome> what's the "flower" style?
<ochosi> but since it's not fading out on one side it's a very solid block moving
<ochosi> the one you have in thunar (or in gtk ftm)
<knome> aha
<knome> but then you'd have to have another layer on top of that
<knome> or sth more complex
<ochosi> the "flower"-style is probably easier actually
<knome> hmm
<knome> i can't see how
<ochosi> or not harder at least
<maddernick> last time, i was given a circle
<ochosi> you only need one image, that has one leaf of the blossom larger
<knome> but i can't grasp an idea either
<maddernick> a solid circle, and a little dot
<maddernick> the dot was rotate around the cricle
<knome> aha
<ochosi> maddernick: yeah, i remember that now
<maddernick> but you both could not agree
<knome> well, for me it was mostly the placing
<knome> we still have the same problem, but i'm looking forward how ochosi solves that :P
<maddernick> i have an idea, that both of you prolly disagree with :P
<knome> ochosi, oh right, that flower style. would you prefer that?
<knome> maddernick, any idea is welcome
<maddernick> what if the circle was AROUND the logo, and the logo a *bit* smaller?
<ochosi> knome: probably, at least i'd try to look into it
<knome> what if the thing rotating was just like a piece of pie, not the outer edge like now?
<ochosi> also, the placement in the video maddernick posted above looks fine to me
<knome> should have more padding vs. logo
<ochosi> knome: you mean like a radar? :)
<knome> yeah, kind of
<ochosi> yeah, definitely more padding, but i don't consider the placement critical
<ochosi> i mean the general direction is fine
<knome> sure, but there's also the question how the fsck progress is shown
<knome> and how does all that look with the logo also being circular
<knome> maddernick, i think that ^ is a big problem with your suggestion (fsck indicator)
<maddernick> indeed, but...
<knome> especially if we decide to make it circular too
<maddernick> One could replace the circle with a bar
<maddernick> if fsck is ran
<knome> well, they are separate indicators anyway
<maddernick> yes
<ochosi> i think the diff between those two indicators is quite drastic:
<ochosi> fsck shows actual progress
<knome> ochosi, yep.
<ochosi> the boot process just shows "activity"
<knome> ochosi, i acknoledge that
<knome> what if it was just a blinking dot?
<knome> for example, a small dot with some blurred edges in the right-bottom corner?
<knome> blinking in and out
<knome> just an idea.
<ochosi> yeah, maybe
<knome> that would be the less clutter
<ochosi> i'm really open for a lot
<knome> least
<ochosi> we can also make the logo pulse
<ochosi> or just the glow behind the logo
<knome> me too. i mean, the circular indicator is kind of... well, i don't know
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> :)
<maddernick> that would be quite cool
<maddernick> a pulsating logo
<knome> in a way that tells people "this might take *so* long, better get some coffee"
<ochosi> haha
<knome> a pulsating logo might work if it was aligned differently
<ochosi> well on some computers it does ;)
<ochosi> and it could be just a slight pusle
<ochosi> pulse
<knome> like centered, on top or bottom of the logotype
<knome> slight - would that be visible?
<ochosi> not a complete fade-to-black, just something subtle
<knome> because the idea is to have visual hint that there's progress
<knome> we can't make it too subtle
<knome> and there's a slight chance we do that if we start playing with the logo
<knome> a circular throbber or a pulsating dot is much much more "sustainable" too
<knome> even if we change the logo, that still works
<knome> (we're not changing the logo)
<knome> and it doesn't get "old"
<ochosi> actually ppl who use proprietary drivers only get a static image there anyway
<knome> it has worked for me with nvidia
<knome> proprietary drivers
<ochosi> maybe my laptop boots too fast then
<knome> :)
<knome> maybe
<knome> anyway
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> but i remember it being a static image before i got the ssd
<ochosi> knome: one sec
<ochosi> will you be back tonight?
<ochosi> i mean, should we try to get this stuff on a wiki page so we don't have to start from 0 each time?
<knome> i will
<knome> maybe
<maddernick> hm
<knome> i most probably will be in and out today again; when wife goes to sleep, i'll try to continue my little nÃ¼rburgring-project :P
<maddernick> i have a vid now
<ochosi> knome: hehe
<ochosi> maddernick: cool, show! :)
<maddernick> http://31.192.230.130:1337/blink.ogg
<maddernick> just wanted too see how that would look like
<ochosi> yeah, not too bad
<ochosi> i'd probably just add glow below the logo to make it less "blink" and more "glow", but i think i like the idea
<maddernick> it looks better "irl", VLC isnt too kind to my videos :(
<ochosi> thought so :)
<ochosi> you can try the new parole from git if you want
<maddernick> can parole record?
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> no, it cant
<maddernick> hehe :P
<ochosi> i thought you only use that for playback
<maddernick> i use VLC to record videos
<knome> i'd probably just blink the img-part though
<ochosi> why not use a real screencasting-app?
<maddernick> it clogs my ~
<maddernick> With spam logs
<ochosi> rly? i thought kazaam (or whatever) was working quite well
<ochosi> knome: img-part of the logo you mean?
<knome> i've used recordmydesktop before
<maddernick> I tend to use record-my-desktop etc, because I can select a window
<knome> ochosi, yup
<ochosi> yeah, only making the img-part of the logo glow or pulse sounds good
<maddernick> what is the img-part?
<maddernick> The mouse?
<knome> yeah
<knome> the non-text part of the logo
<maddernick> i c
<knome> lol
<knome> that reminds me of a playing maching on a ferry to sweden
<knome> named "I C Money" with icey letters
<knome> i'm *sure* pun was intended
<maddernick> :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> knome: say, what would you say if i mirrored the revert-icon horizontally?
<ochosi> currently it rather says "reload" instead of "revert" imo
<ochosi> (in actions/16/document-revert)
<knome> ochosi, can't think of it right now, but will get you back soonish
<ochosi> mkay
<CryptoFreak> Hello everyone. New community member eager to help :-)
<ochosi> hi
<ochosi> ... and welcome. always good to see new faces around here
<ochosi> what areas do you wanna help with?
<CryptoFreak> I can do packaging, coding, marketing, etc. Mostly coding and marketing though.
<ochosi> awesome
<CryptoFreak> Cool
<ochosi> coders and packagers are really needed
<knome> hullo! (i'm mostly away from irc for a while now though)
<CryptoFreak> Cool. Then I might be able to lend a hand somewhere then :-)
<ochosi> knome: you mean "hullo and goodbye"? :)
<knome> nah, i mean "hey, i'm here, but don't expect fast replies"
<ochosi> CryptoFreak: have you taken a look at xfce's code or anything ubuntu related so far?
<ochosi> or better: what's your background, etc :)
<knome> huh, something freaky happened. i got kicked out of my session
<CryptoFreak> I've looked a bit at xfce and a few things in Ubuntu. But I'm just diving in now
<CryptoFreak> Most of my background is userland development. Haven't done much system stuff yet
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> that sounds fine though
<knome> working with xubuntu is hardly too much system stuff :)
<CryptoFreak> True. :-)
<ochosi> in xubuntu we don't currently do our own coding projects, we're just too few ppl for that
<CryptoFreak> I'm up to going anywhere I can fit in.
<ochosi> so in general if we have a project or areas we'd like to improve code-wise, we try to always get it upstream to xfce
<ochosi> e.g. parole has been xubuntu's multimedia-player for about 2 years now
<ochosi> but development stalled for more than a year and the project looked dead
<CryptoFreak> Cool. So what kinds of stuff does the team generally do if not coding?
<ochosi> out of our interest we revived it @xfce
<ochosi> so now bluesabre and me are maintaining it (although he's doing much more than me :))
<CryptoFreak> Ahh  I see
<ochosi> that was just an example now
<ochosi> in general i'm doing mostly artwork
<ochosi> only little tidbits of code
<ochosi> actually xubuntu is really upstream-oriented as a distro
<sgtmcc> ochosi, when you got a moment got a ?? for you
<CryptoFreak> Sounds like an active community though
<ochosi> our packagers always look that stuff gets into debian first and then pull it back to xubuntu
<ochosi> sgtmcc: sure, ask away
<sgtmcc> any advice on the arrow?
<ochosi> in what respect?
<sgtmcc> Was that done with bezier curves or how was it originally done?
<ochosi> just open the 48px version to check :)
<ochosi> you don't have to draw it from scratch
<sgtmcc> oh...ok...cool
<ochosi> you can scale it and try to correctly position it etc
<knome> what arrow?
<ochosi> line-width is best kept at 1px
<ochosi> knome: sgtmcc is helping with icons
<knome> ochosi, just fyi, the line-width was better at 0.8 on the 16px refresh icon
<ochosi> knome: currently redrawing the 32px document-open-recent icon
<knome> but that's only for 16px
<ochosi> i know
<knome> yup, just saying
<ochosi> didn't want to over-complicate things in the beginning :)
<ochosi> CryptoFreak: so yeah, any personal itches you want to scratch in xubuntu?
<CryptoFreak> lol Probably something silly. But the lack of feedback when clicking an icon drives me nuts 
<sgtmcc> ochosi, about to email you the svg, about to go out with the wife for a bit
<ochosi> sgtmcc: sure, sounds good
<sgtmcc> probably not to scale, might need a tut some time to show me how to scale correctly
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> CryptoFreak: you mean e.g. in thunar?
<CryptoFreak> ochosi: right
<sgtmcc> going away...talk to you all later
<ochosi> CryptoFreak: ok, one sec...
<ochosi> sgtmcc: have fun, ttyl
<ochosi> CryptoFreak: here you go ;) https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1377
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 1377 in general "Visual feedback when double-clicking a file" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<CryptoFreak> Hmm, FF isn't letting me access that page. 
<ochosi> as you can see, bugs to fix everywhere
<CryptoFreak> Very cool. Looks like I'll be able to keep myself busy!
<ochosi> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-23
<knome> humphf, i'm off for today
<knome> see you all later!
<ochosi> nighty
<sgtmcc> back for a few
<ochosi> already replied
<sgtmcc> got it, figured that was the case, where in inkscape do you scale it?
<ochosi> ctrl+shift+d
<ochosi> change document size
<sgtmcc> kk
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-16
<forestpiskie> brainwash: < brainwash> ochosi: does the background of gtk3 indicator panel item  become transparent occasionally?
<forestpiskie> I get that
<pleia2> woo a1 candidate
<elfy> pleia2: thanks for reminding me - call going out in a few ... 
<elfy> social call a few later please :)
<elfy> all done - included -users in alpha testing call
<elfy> hi Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<ochosi> elfy: in what sense?
<elfy> ochosi: ... 
<elfy> ochosi: oh yea - randomly during machine being on - the indicator -panel area becomes transparent
<elfy> next time I'll grab a screenie
<elfy> one day I'll just have an always on client that I then use during the day as well :p
<ochosi> ok, well good to know
<ochosi> actually that should never happen, currently there's a patch there to specifically prevent that
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I just read it in piskie's backlog :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> anyway, there's still that bug in the panel to be fixed (i.e. transparency and bg-color/image broken due to gtk3 indicators)
<ochosi> hopefully that'll also resolve your issue
<elfy> :)
<elfy> ochosi: so you don't need a screenshot or anything 
<ochosi> elfy: well if you have one, sure, but i trust you if you say it
<ochosi> 's transparent
<ochosi> i presume there's nothing in the logs about it?
<elfy> well - I didn't see it happen so I don't know about the logs - but there is a lot in there atm
<ochosi> you can always pastebin them if you want
<elfy> some I can see belongs to liferea and the weather ind - welcome to it if you want :)
<elfy> ok - 2 ticks then :)
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/282588
<ochosi> looks nice :>
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/qSb0kQaD
<elfy> ochosi: personally I liked thew whole panel being transparent - used to use that with gnome
<ochosi> there's nothing there
<ochosi> yeah, me too
<ochosi> i hope we can get this problem with the panel fixed
<elfy> nothing where?
<ochosi> in your log
<elfy> nothing related you mean?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> at least as far as i can tell
<elfy> k 
<ochosi> 50% is googletalk noise
<elfy> ochosi: well - from where I stand - I hope that we get this issue fixed, but I'm more concerned about them landing :)
<elfy> googletalk? 
<elfy> oh - the hangout stuff I guess
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> hangout uses the gtalk plugin
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> there are some panel errors
<ochosi> but i'm not sure they're related
<ochosi> hard to tell
<elfy> well - if it's hard for you to tell - it's a stone wall certainty that it'd mean 'loads' to me :p
<ochosi> :)
<slickymaster> morning all
<ochosi> morning
<slickymaster> knome: ping
<elfy> morning slickymaster 
<slickymaster> or elfy :)
<slickymaster> morning elfy
<slickymaster> elfy at you disposal for review, merge and update the tracker https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/199063
<elfy> slickymaster: if you're talking about the merge proposal - I've seen it - I'll look a bit later
<elfy> aah - you were :P
<slickymaster> after/if you merge it I'll update the card in Trello also 
<elfy> you don't actually need to ping us about those - we both get LP mails from there anyway I think :)
<elfy> I know I certainly get mails regarding all the testcase stuff
<elfy> slickymaster: when I've done - I can update trello :)
<slickymaster> yeah I know, but as we're all with out hands full, one thing or another may be overlooked elfy
<elfy> good point :p
<elfy> slickymaster: why is there 3 unrelated bugs listed against that MP?
<slickymaster> well, they're not related with the MP, they're related with the branch, elfy
<elfy> oh ok - hope that if there's a bunch of stuff in the branch I don't screw the merge up then
<slickymaster> that shouldn't happen as there was no changes with those other two files
<slickymaster> elfy, at least theoretically it shouldn't happen
<slickymaster> elfy: quick question elfy
<slickymaster> have you got the chance to test alpha yet?
<elfy> no
<slickymaster> elfy: well I did it and ubiquity slides are huge, wondering if it was happening just to me
<elfy> bbs
<elfy> report it :)
<slickymaster> I mean huge in screen size
<elfy> I'll be looking in a while
<elfy> oh hang on - check the existing bugs - saw that one 
<elfy> afk for 15 mins 
<slickymaster> bug number?
<xnox> slickymaster: as in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1260396 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1260396 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity window spans width of screen" [High,Confirmed]
<slickymaster> xnox: sort of
<slickymaster> xnox: in my case/alpha1 it never cames back to the correct width
<slickymaster> elfy, xnox, I'll comment it in bug 1260396
<ubottu> bug 1260396 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity window spans width of screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260396
<ochosi> looks funky
<xnox> yeah, doesn't change to "normal" size fore me either.
<slickymaster> ochosi, xnox, well, to shortsighted people it might be regarded as an improvement ;)
<elfy> slickymaster: all done
<slickymaster> elfy: ok, you didn't forget to update the tracker, did you? ;)
<elfy> nope :)
<slickymaster> elfy: going to update Trello
<elfy> done that as well :p
<slickymaster> elfy: yeah, I saw you beat me on that
<slickymaster> :)
<elfy> he he he 
<slickymaster> elfy: on another note, regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256898 do you think we should do an entire new test or can we adjust/re-write http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/view/head:/testcases/packages/Xfce/1576_Xfce4%20Session%20and%20Startup%20Settings ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress]
<olli> )
<elfy> might be better to do a new one - others might use that and the packages it was written against
<slickymaster> ok
<elfy> afk for a bit now
<slickymaster> bbl
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I've redone the xfdesktop Prefs section so please review it when you get a chance
<jjfrv8> I basically just tweaked the 4.10 docs and then added a 4.12 diffs section
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, instead of messing up your sections with a copy-paste from my old Prefs stuff, I just made a copy of it
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, you can just pick and choose anything from it if you want: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences:jjfrv8-copy
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, and fyi, there's one suggestion from ochosi I didn't implement yet in my old section: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences:comments
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, I imagine that should go in Usage now
<jjfrv8> bblte
<slickymaster> ochosi, elfy: regarding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators there are a bunch of them that just don't show up in Setting Manager
<slickymaster> what are you thinking regarding approaching this?
<brainwash> in settings manager?
<slickymaster> yeaps
<brainwash> they are supposed to show up in the panel, or? :)
<slickymaster> I think they're supposed to
<brainwash> looks like I don't understand the problem
<ali1234> slickymaster: that's described in the known issues
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1074314
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel only works in Unity session" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<slickymaster> ali1234: yes, I know, but as it is bit vague I was wondering if it might be a particular problem with my VB box
<elfy> slickymaster: once we've got a real idea what's going on with them - I'll sort that out
<elfy> for the moment just forget about them
<slickymaster> okie dokie
<elfy> atm indicatoes aren't in settings manager and I personally see no reason why they should be
<elfy> bad enough in there as it it :)
<slickymaster> agreed
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: saw it ^^^ and will try to have it finish this week
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, ochosi, regarding http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences:comments I don't know how I can do this. I just have one monitor.
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, ochosi, so if one of you can take this one it would be preferable 
<elfy> wb bluesabre or bluesabr1 :p
<elfy> ochosi: might be unrelated. might not - harking back to the odd thing with xchat I was getting
<elfy> did a panel restart to get sound ind back 
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> xchat became completely unresponsive
<ochosi> interestign
<elfy> just thought I'd mention that
<ochosi> but it's really odd that it only affects xchat
<elfy> in other related news - I've not had that again since I installed nvidia
<elfy> yea - agreed, just passing on info as I find it :)
<ochosi> so wait, it just happens with xchat and nouveau?
<elfy> seems to 
<elfy> though this latest panel restart/xchat dying was with nvidia - so it might just be coincidental :)
<ochosi> crap
<brainwash> what does xchat do with the sound indicator? I could test and maybe confirm it
<ochosi> sounds bad
<ochosi> brainwash: just fyi, i asked Noskcaj to set up a PPA with powermanager + suse-patches
<ochosi> he said he'll try to do it asap, but in case he forgets and i forget to remind him, feel free to remind him :]
<brainwash> ok :)
<brainwash> that reminds me of the lock_hint issue, robert did not really give us an answer
<ochosi> well, not really
<slickymaster> ochosi: did you saw what I said about your comments on http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences:comments ?
<ochosi> slickymaster: i did, haven't had time to review jjfrv8's page yet, but i guess one of us can do the multi-monitor thingy
<slickymaster> ochosi: great
<hobgoblin> <elfy> ochosi: what I'll do is leave nvidia installed for a couple of days and then remove it and go back to nouveau
<hobgoblin> <elfy> brainwash: story goes - xchat goes like this http://imagebin.org/282133 with nouveau, nothing in startxfce logs - couple of occurrences of that - install nvidia - no occurrences of that with xchat since then - restart panel - (gains sound ind/loses panel transparency) - xchat unresponsive
<hobgoblin> <elfy> that get's you up to date :)
<hobgoblin> you'll have not seen that ^^
<brainwash> I will launch xchat and see what it does
<elfy> with nouevea?
<brainwash> with AMD :)
<elfy> brainwash: it doesn't happen immediately - just so you know
<elfy> well - we'll see - but as it is isn't happening with nvidia, might not with amd either
<elfy> bbl
<slickymaster> bbl
<kendall> Hello!
<kendall> <-- new guy
<kendall> :)
<pleia2> welcome kendall 
<kendall> thanks
<kendall> I just started using xubuntu
<kendall> already developing a touchscreen calibration fix, so I figured I would start chatting around about it
<kendall> but it's written in java... 
<kendall> that might be taboo here... I dunno
<kendall> lol, I'm new
<pleia2> might want to have a look at our strategy document to get a better idea of how we do things :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<kendall> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> we don't see a lot of java around here
<kendall> that is what I expected
<kendall> I just worked out that program as a proof of concept
<kendall> next I will work it into a more acceptable language
<kendall> one that doesn't require installing anything to run
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> not much effort on touchscreens has been put into xubuntu directly either
<kendall> well, it's not quite the standard yet
<GridCube> i have a touchscreen netbook 
<GridCube> :D if you need a tester for stuffs
<kendall> becoming more so every day, however
<kendall> sweet! :)
<kendall> I will let you know GridCube
 * pleia2 heads off to work
<kendall> msg me your contact info and I will send it over when I complete it
<GridCube> that machine runs 12.04 tho
<GridCube> i will upgrade it to 14.04 when it comes out
<kendall> it's working as a stand alone java class right now, but I want to make it a clickable .jar file, so that's what I'm working on before I release it
<kendall> if anyone would like to have a copy of my touch screen calibration fix in java just msg kendallmcintosh@gmail.com
<kendall> it is still in alpha stag though, so it does need testing
<kendall> *stage
<kendall> loving xubuntu, though!  it rocks
<kendall> I was looking for a solid distro that doesn't contain useless features that bloat my system
<kendall> I'm in love with xubuntu
<ochosi> there was someone on the xfce-dev mailinglist also doing stuff for touchscreens
<ochosi> don't remember who or where, must've been a while ago already
<ochosi> kendall: that guy is also working on touchscreen stuff obviously (follow that thread to the end), you might wanna get in touch with him: http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2013-January/030128.html
<ochosi> and yeah, xfce's core is mostly written in c, some not-core stuff is vala and even less is python
<kendall> thanks
<kendall> I know java is not a popular choice, but it's just a proof of concept.  I'd like to integrate it into the OS, or at least add a good app to the repository.  It is still not an automated task yet (ie. requires user input), so it's a ways off from being automated enough to include in the distro
<ochosi> i don't know whether automization is the main criterion for an app to be good
<ochosi> frankly, i have no clue what and how you customize the touchscreen (cause i don't have one), so... :)
<ochosi> but it's always nice to see a new face or a new contributor around
<kendall> :-)
<kendall> it's nice to come into a project and community that is worth contributing to!
<GridCube> kendall, my problem with my touchscreen is that linux doesnt dinamycally rotates the screen, if i want to rotate it i need to run a script to change the layout, and then recalibrate the touchscreen interface to work with it
<kendall> hmmmm
<kendall> you rotate the screen?  what is reported when you run "xrandr" in the terminal?
<kendall> if the screen reports it's coordinates as rotated in xrandr then my program will likely calibrate your touch screen correctly 
<kendall> my program basically has you pick your touch screen out of a list (limited right now to dual screens only)
<kendall> then you select your touch device
<kendall> and it calibrates the coordinates based on position and size reported from xrandr
<kendall> so it will handle if the screen is left-of, above, right-of, or below
<kendall> it doesn't care if the screen is rotated
<kendall> because the height and width of the screen should be reported as such
<GridCube> kendall, yes i have a small script by the screen manufactured that does that :P
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Is it just the three systemd patches that i should have in the ppa?
<kendall> GridCude... just curious.  can you send me xrandr output from your system
<kendall> you're making me think about screen rotation... which is good
<kendall> I'd like to see what the output is before you run the manufacturer script and then after
<kendall> I think my program wouldn't care, but it might
<ochosi> Noskcaj: yes, please
<ochosi> we can always look into the others later
<Noskcaj> PPA is up, waiting for buildd
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Any idea what https://launchpadlibrarian.net/159951261/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.xfce4-power-manager_1.2.0-3ubuntu1systemd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is from?
<Noskcaj> I'll try a build without autoreconf
<Noskcaj> yep, that fixed it
<a5m0> hi, i downloaded one of the daily isos for 14.04 but it doesn't seem to do anything on my laptop, is the installer in a known broken state or is it something on my end?
<elfy> team - is anything being done about the user session patch that's kicking about waiting?
<elfy> a5m0: hi - not broken that badly afaik
<elfy> what's actually happening for you? 
<elfy> a5m0: how did you get the iso - what have you booted it with? 
<elfy> a5m0: you can see what bugs people have seen so far here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/309/builds/59196/testcases and here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/309/builds/59197/testcases
<ochosi> Noskcaj: nice, so the build succeeded?
<Noskcaj> All builds fine. https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/power-manager-systemd
<ochosi> awesome work Noskcaj 
<ochosi> brainwash: let's test this then ^
<Noskcaj> :)
<a5m0> elfy: i put it on usb with unetbootin
<Noskcaj> I just hope that leave xdt-autogen on didn't break anything. We need to fix it with autoreconf before it can go in the archive
<elfy> a5m0: did you hashcheck the iso before hand 
<elfy> a5m0: just booting with the 64bit now in a vm
<ochosi> Noskcaj: we'll see, i'll test on saucy and i hope that brainwash will do some testing on both saucy and trusty
<Noskcaj> a5m0, Have you got the latest unetbootin installed? 585-2ubuntu1
<brainwash> mmh, this one is a bit tricky... I don't use the power manager at all
<ochosi> brainwash: install it and try to use suspend/hibernate through the trayicon-menu
<elfy> a5m0: after Try Xubuntu - there is a bug - which means you have to use username xubuntu and also change language
<brainwash> uhm, this is not a valid test case, or?
<a5m0> elfy: md5 checks out
<brainwash> it's about button and lid events
<a5m0> nothing shows on my screen after i hit enter on try xubuntu or install from unetbootin
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1222021
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<ochosi> not only that
<elfy> a5m0: what hardware 
<ochosi> brb
<a5m0> dell latitude e6439
<a5m0> e6430*
<elfy> mmm - should be fine
<brainwash> ochosi: not only? but this is the part which has not been implemented/patches yet, support for suspend/hibernate via logind/systemd was already added
<brainwash> ochosi: so I will test if the power manager reacts to power button press (should show the shutdown dialog and prevent systemd from doing anything)
<elfy> a5m0: maybe try booting with nomodeset option - boot - when you see man and kbd - hit any key - F6 - choose nomodeset
<a5m0> well that's interesting, f6 didnt' give me any neat options
<a5m0> but it actually booted 
<a5m0> how do you change language?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, When you get back, should i have addd dh_systemd
<Noskcaj> *added
<elfy> a5m0: at login window - which you'll get to eventually - top right - one of the dropdowns is for language - think it's the 'flag' one
<a5m0> thanks
<elfy> a5m0: welcome - and thanks for testing - please make sure to report results for us :)
<a5m0> oh i will, i was having issues getting nvidia-prime/optimus working on 13.10 so i figured i would try 14.04
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Unit193: you know what's going on with bug 1259525
<ubottu> bug 1259525 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu & Xubuntu lightdm session fails to start. user-session is not set" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259525
<elfy> I know it's triaged 
<elfy> a5m0: change the session to xubuntu as well I think is needed
<a5m0> looks more like regular xfce skinning than xubuntu skin?
<elfy> I was too late then ... 
<a5m0> didn't see anything on the dropdown
<a5m0> well it shouldn't mess up my install right?
<elfy> might do 
<a5m0> eh ok i'll just restart
<a5m0> switched it to xubuntu session but it still looks like some xfce notes to it
<elfy> here with xubuntu session/english uk it looks normal
<elfy> but that bug is known - mentioned it just a couple of lines up 
<elfy> jjfrv8: I changed your fail here to a pass - the testcase doesn't say anything about even looking at menus - left the bug reported though - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/309/builds/59196/testcases/1302/results/
<elfy> gtg now - night all
<a5m0> password screen for full disc encryption is borked
<a5m0> shows a bunch of square characters instead of "please enter your password" prompt
<a5m0> also login-automatically in installer did not seem to actually affect the install, still required login
<andrzejr> not sure if that's a bug or something limited to my setup: xubuntu 13.10 64b with full disc encryption is very slow when uncompressing a large tar file.
<andrzejr> Cursor moves with jumps, gui responds slowly, no obvious cpu hoggers but there are a couple of kworker threads 10% cpu each, tar - another 10%.
<brainwash> a5m0: bug 1260792
<ubottu> bug 1260792 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Plymouth font shows only square/rectangle glyphs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260792
<brainwash> Noskcaj: you should add a comment to bug 1222021 and inform the affected users so they can test the PPA
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<forestpiskie> and please make sure to mail the -dev list with it - as long as the required information is available there's no reason why we can't put a call out for it in a day or so as well
<forestpiskie> Noskcaj: ^^
<sergiobenrocha2> hey guys
<ochosi> Noskcaj: wait, you're asking me? i thought you're the packager :)
<ochosi> hey andrzejr 
<sergiobenrocha2> is Greybird the default theme style for xubuntu trusty?
<ochosi> sergiobenrocha2: yup, at least that's the plan
<sergiobenrocha2> ok
<sergiobenrocha2> it`s weird
<sergiobenrocha2> what ppa`s should I install to test xubuntu?
<sergiobenrocha2> there is for gtk3, and for whisker menu, are there other?
<ochosi> yeah, there's a shimmer daily PPA
<ochosi> for the gtk themes and icon-thee
<ochosi> theme
<ochosi> and the xfce4.12 xubuntu-dev ppa
<sergiobenrocha2> well, but xfce 4.12 will arrive in trusty?
<sergiobenrocha2> i thougth that the default was 4.10, with some things of 4.11
<ochosi> the PPA is called 4.12
<ochosi> because it contains components that will be released with 4.12
<ochosi> at the moment, it's all 4.11 (the dev-releases between 4.10 and 12)
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, yes
<sergiobenrocha2> ok
<sergiobenrocha2> so, it is only this PPA:
<sergiobenrocha2> ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce-4.12
<sergiobenrocha2> ppa:noskcaj/indicator-gtk3
<sergiobenrocha2> ppa:shimmerproject/daily
<sergiobenrocha2> ppa:gottcode/gcppa
<ochosi> pretty much
<sergiobenrocha2> ok, thanks
<ochosi> you can also use more stuff, e.g. the lightdm-gtk-greeter PPA, the light-locker PPA
<ochosi> and the parole daily PPA
<ochosi> (those things will hopefully also land in 14.04)
<sergiobenrocha2> LightDM GTK+ Greeter Daily ?
<sergiobenrocha2> and Light-Locker Daily ?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but you can also incrementally add those
<ochosi> to test things one after the otehr
<ochosi> but theoretically they should all work (they do for me in saucy)
<sergiobenrocha2> one by one? yes
<sergiobenrocha2> Parole is not in xfce-4.12 ppa?
<ochosi> oh, well it is actually
<ochosi> in fact we're preparing a new release
<ochosi> should happen any day now
<ochosi> so you can also wait until it lands there (might take until after christmas)
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, ok
<brainwash> ppa madness
<ochosi> :)
<sergiobenrocha2> and, if I get um bug, how can i report in launchpad? There is problem report PPA with ubuntu-bug
<ochosi> brainwash: become and uploader and improve thigns ;)
<brainwash> why not push all the stuff into the official ppa?
<brainwash> uhm repo
<brainwash> so you just download the trusty daily image =S
<brainwash> I get trillions of package updates every day
<brainwash> so pushing all the ppa packages shouldn't be a problem in the trusty dev cycle, or?
<sergiobenrocha2> it's 6 PPA's for test...
<sergiobenrocha2> whisker menu, i used it a lot in saucy, i think it is good for official repo
<brainwash> whisker menu is already available in trusty
<brainwash> same for light-locker
<brainwash> but the integration is missing
<sergiobenrocha2> hey, it's true
<sergiobenrocha2> whisker is up-to-date in official repo
<sergiobenrocha2> hey, Synaptic is missing in trusty...
<sergiobenrocha2> is it default in system, in saucy?
<GridCube> synaptic has not been default for a few releases already
<sergiobenrocha2> humm
<sergiobenrocha2> what packages i should purge to use light-locker?
<brainwash> none actually
<ochosi> xscreensaver?
<brainwash> make sure that xscreensaver does not launch on startup
<sergiobenrocha2> all xscreensaver?
<ochosi> or just purge it?
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, in "Session and Startup" ?
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> brainwash: even if it's not there in startup, won't xflock launch it upon trying to lock?
<brainwash> or "just purge it"
<sergiobenrocha2> ok
<brainwash> does the command tool launch xscreensaver?
<brainwash> or light-locker?
<brainwash> xscreensaver-command / light-locker-command
<brainwash> sergiobenrocha2: you should also apply this patch https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/light-locker
<brainwash> which means editing the shell script /usr/bin/xflock4
<sergiobenrocha2> so, i have to compile light-locker?
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> but you should edit the mentioned file 
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, i don't understand, the link is to source
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, let me see
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/light-locker/revision/79#scripts/xflock4
<brainwash> it changes a shell script, so you don't need to compile anything
<sergiobenrocha2> scripts/xflock4 ?
<brainwash> /usr/bin/xflock4
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, ok
<sergiobenrocha2> it's only 2 lines, ok
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-17
<brainwash> the keyboard shortcut to lock the screen should now work, also the menu entry
<brainwash> on top of that, light-locker will automatically lock the screen on suspend/hibernate
<brainwash> if triggered via session menu
<sergiobenrocha2> ok
<sergiobenrocha2> i had an issue to login in live cd
<brainwash> make sure that the light-locker process is running in the background, if you haven't restarted the session yet after installing light-locker
<sergiobenrocha2> it prompt me to login window, it has um report bug, or no?
<sergiobenrocha2> ah, sure about light locker.
<sergiobenrocha2> i'm in live cd yet
<brainwash> there is an issue with login?
<sergiobenrocha2> i think login in live CD has 3 issues. One i think it is reported
<brainwash> 3 o.o
<sergiobenrocha2> yes, i have to type xubuntu to login
<sergiobenrocha2> but, i had to try too the language (bangladesh to english) and the session, xfce to xubuntu
<brainwash> it's always a good idea to report bugs if you cannot find an existing report
<sergiobenrocha2> well, i'm not sure if these are reported
<sergiobenrocha2> let me find this
<sergiobenrocha2> i don't undertand well this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1257372
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1257372 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu/Lubuntu daily image does not lead to a working desktop in a live session" [High,Fix released]
<sergiobenrocha2> this covers only the problem to go direct to desktop, is it true?
<sergiobenrocha2> in saucy, the language problem is still there. If you do a logout and do login, typing xubuntu, the desktop will be a xfce session with bangladesh language
<sergiobenrocha2> and it continues in trusty
<sergiobenrocha2> so, i don't sure if this bug covers these issues
<brainwash> yes, I did encounter this problem too (saucy)
<brainwash> currently I'm trying to find the bug report :)
<sergiobenrocha2> and i don't know what package is, this 2 issues, language and session type
<sergiobenrocha2> the default, i think, should be "English" and "Xubuntu Session", not "Bangladesh" and "Xfce Session"
<brainwash> bug 1245585
<ubottu> bug 1245585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "LiveCD: wrong language selected by default on login screen" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245585
<sergiobenrocha2> yes, cool, it is
<sergiobenrocha2> it affects trusty too
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, i forgot that i commented in this bug :D
<sergiobenrocha2> but the package affected is not ubiquity
<brainwash> no?
<sergiobenrocha2> well, i don't know.
<brainwash> read comment 5
<brainwash> so as of now we don't know the cause of this problem
<sergiobenrocha2> ok
<sergiobenrocha2> so, probably it is the same issue for session type?
<brainwash> most likely yes
<brainwash> it looks like lightdm is simply falling back to the first entry in the menu
<sergiobenrocha2> yes, bangladesh is the first language
<brainwash> because it is not able to query the correct default values of the live user
<brainwash> like comment 5 states, it's maybe a problem caused by accountsservice
<brainwash> the service which manages user settings like language, keyboard layout, background picture,..
<sergiobenrocha2> ok, thanks for all, i will try to install xubuntu here
<brainwash> glad you enjoy xubuntu :)
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, alacarte will be substitute, i forgot the name... is there a ppa? or it is in repo?
<brainwash> menulibre
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/daily
<sergiobenrocha2> ok, thanks
<forestpiskie> bluesabre: isn't menulibre in a massive state of flux at the moment?
<bluesabre> forestpiskie, yea, that's one way to put it
<bluesabre> cool, kendall made his way over to -devel :)
<bluesabre> (one of my coworkers)
<unova> Hi all
<bluesabre> forestpiskie, I expect to have menulibre at a much more stable state by the end of this or next week
<bluesabre> I took all of next week off, so I should have a good opportunity to make tons of progress on each of my work items
<Noskcaj> forestpiskie, The issue with putting a full call for testing out yet is that the patch isn't finished. 
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I am the packager, but all i know about systemd is it made a minor war in the debian community
<Noskcaj> I'll add dh_systemd in the next ppa upload, since it can't hurt.
<Unit193> forestpiskie: No.
<Unit193> dh_systemd won't help at all, btw.
<knome> morning. just set up my desktop system.
<forestpiskie> hi knome 
<knome> hey forestpiskie :)
<forestpiskie> Noskcaj: okey doke
<elfy> Unit193: thanks 
<knome> ahh
<knome> much better today with the working room, but too bad i'm feeling a bit sick :(
<elfy> :(
<elfy> this user-session bug is a real pita 
<knome> wha? :P
<Unit193> Got gilir online, fixed there.  Went over some information from that though, default-session was what was in th email, but it didn't work.
<elfy> I saw lubuntu was fixed 
<elfy> knome: can you look at this - adding menu test to software centre https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/USCedit
<elfy> if you've not got time let me know and I'll hassle Nick
<elfy> Unit193: this is nice - so 64bit - you can tell it to run xub session and change the language - do the same in the 32bit and it ignores what session you tell it
<Unit193> Well that's strange, I always cheated on that one though.
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> elfy, Unit193: so we're still having problems with the dailys?
<elfy> dailies/a1 
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> i thought Unit193 had proposed fixes for the login issues
<elfy> ochosi: it's sitting there triaged 
<ochosi> :(
<ochosi> so we need to put it in the sponsors queue?
<elfy> I guess so - I don't really understand all that stuff :| though knome was pinging micah about it a couple of days ago
<ochosi> yeah, but micahg is busy most of the time, we should just always throw stuff at the sponsor's queue imo
<ochosi> if he gets to it earlier, fine, but that way things aren't in limbo forever
<ochosi> knome: what do you think? ^
<elfy> if the sponsors queue is what logically I think it is - then I'd +1 that
<ochosi> we used it a lot to get stuff into saucy
<ochosi> dholbach was one of the most frequent uploaders
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Unit193: bug 1261660 - I assume it's all related, but I reported it anyway 
<ubottu> bug 1261660 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "User session fails to accept settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261660
<elfy> ochosi: best thing for me to do with things like sponsors queue is just to +1 it if it's in the best interests of the team - but do nothing else in case I break it :p
<knome> ochosi, elfy: +1.
<knome> if you file the paperwork, i can ping people to look at it
<ochosi> well tbh Unit193 is on that bug, so i can't really file the paperwork
<ochosi> but i hope he can do it and get in touch with you
<knome> on that bug? what do you mean?
<ochosi> well the trusty login stuff
<knome> it's been ACK'd the branch is okay
<knome> and now it just need uploading
<knome> is there something blocking that i don't understand?
<ochosi> but it's not in the sponsor's queue yet, or is it?
<knome> no
<knome> but if you file the paperwork, eg. get it on the queue..
<ochosi> moreover, for me it was about what we generally should do, not just this bug specifically
<knome> yep
<knome> i'm all +1 for the queue at least for now, until we have more packagers
<knome> desktop machine is so good
<ochosi> tbh i have no clue how to add stuff to the queue (and i don't know where the branch sits...)
<knome> lol
<knome> i'll paste you an url
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<Unit193> "Is on that bug"  I'm a bug perhaps?  What do you mean by this?
<knome> basically, file a bug; attach a patch, and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ochosi> Unit193: i thought you were the one who proposed a branch with a fix?
<Unit193> That's all I've done, other than testing but that doesn't count.
<knome> i believe it was xnox who ack'd the branch is fine
<ochosi> k
<knome> basically, the message was: get it uploaded now
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> anyway, gotta do some work, bbabl
<knome> if you want, you can follow up on #ubuntu-quality 
<Unit193> Also, it needs fixed "upstream", which is where I proposed it and only the two xubuntu devs can commit.
<knome> and anybody in ~ubuntu-dev
<knome> i guess.
<knome> ~ubuntu-core-dev is a member of ~xubuntu-dev
<knome> so that should work out as expected
<knome> again, if you do the paperwork, i'll get somebody to look at it..
<Unit193> Heh, so "deadline" is the 19th.
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> monring slickymaster 
<slickymaster> morning elfy
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<knome> slickymaster, you pinged me earlier?
<elfy> might have ... 
<knome> lol
 * slickymaster curses his internet connection
<elfy> bbl
<knome> slickymaster, hullo
<knome> elfy, your branch is merged and in the tracker
<slickymaster> morning knome 
<knome> slickymaster, you pinged me?
<slickymaster> knome: i see i have a lot of -doc related mails to catch up with ;)
<knome> sure, i had those too..
<slickymaster> yesterday, but it's resolved
<knome> okay, good
<slickymaster> it was about merging the xfce4 panel test
<knome> :)
<elfy> 64bit has been rebuilt apparently
<elfy> knome: ty
<elfy> knome: you done the tracker or shall I do that?
<elfy> nvm - read the whole line now ... 
<knome> elfy, :)
<slickymaster> damn internet connection
<slickymaster> elfy, knome, if neither of you have any objections I'll assign my self to bug 1255805 to fix it
<ubottu> bug 1255805 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Parole testcase instructions have a broken link" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255805
<knome> slickymaster, go ahead
<brainwash> elfy: did you already test Noskcaj's power manager PPA?
<brainwash> with this patched version Xubuntu does not immediately shut down when the power button is pressed
<brainwash> so the user is actually able to interact with shutdown dialog and decide what the system should do
<brainwash> works for me
<brainwash> also closing the lid should now perform the action set via the power manager settings window
<brainwash> bug 1222021
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<ochosi> brainwash: so lid stuff works? i still gotta test that in saucy
<brainwash> could not test it
<ochosi> (so far my system went to a zombie-like suspend state when i closed the lid too early when shutting down)
<brainwash> that's a different issue
<ochosi> are you sure?
<brainwash> yea, the shutdown process should not be interrupted 
<brainwash> maybe I can find the bug report
<brainwash> bug 1211514
<ubottu> bug 1211514 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu Saucy) "Shutdowns fail to finish if laptop lid is closed before completely shutdown" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211514
<brainwash> fixed in trusty :)
<bluesabre> sweet!
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> hope they'll fix it in saucy too
<slickymaster> elfy: ping me when you can. There's something I'd like to discuss with you about http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases/1569/results
<ochosi> oh
<brainwash> ochosi: package is already in proposed
<ochosi> they did in proposed
<ochosi> yeah, just noticed
<brainwash> regarding the new abiword ruler glitch, overlay-scrollbar actually prevents the top ruler from breaking
<brainwash> but the ruler on the left side breaks partially after scrolling
<ochosi> great :/
<brainwash> so it's not Xubuntu specific :)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that's the good side
<ochosi> means i don't have to dig into the theming code once again
 * ochosi remembers the horror of reading the abiword source a few months ago
<brainwash> maybe it gets fixed at some point during the normal dev cycle of abitword
<brainwash> abiword
<ochosi> yup, let's just hope that
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1261372
<ubottu> bug 1261372 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Tabs are unintuitive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261372
<brainwash> maybe it could be improved via theme changes?
<ochosi> brainwash: it could, but tabs look the same everywhere and i don't wanna break the consistency
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-12172013-014935pm.php
<brainwash> so fix it everywhere?
<ochosi> imho it's not that hard to see
<ochosi> or instead, mark it as wontfix
<brainwash> for older people it is
<brainwash> so a change to improve the contrast is unlikely?
<ochosi> i wouldn't recommend our theme to old people or people with bad sight by default, better to use a highcontrast theme instead
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> we've had many issues like this one before, to be frank
<ochosi> but increasing the contrast everywhere to account for ppl with bad sight makes things sometimes worse to use for ppl with good eyesight
<ochosi> so it's a question of balance imo
<brainwash> well, we also have a 1px window border :D
<brainwash> not easy to resize the window via mouse
<knome> brainwash, alt-right-click-drag
<brainwash> yeah, I was thinking about the possibility to make xubuntu a bit easier to use for most people
<brainwash> knome: yeah, hardly anyone uses this method
<knome> well that's a harsh assumption
<brainwash> it's my observation
<knome> from a group of how many people?
<knome> i mean,
<brainwash> like.. 10 at max
<ochosi> brainwash: we actually have a 2px border
<brainwash> =S
<knome> i don't necessarily disagree on how used that is
<knome> but i do think we should rather make people be aware of taht
<knome> that
<knome> than changing our theming because of that issue
<brainwash> yes, it's a never ending story anyway
<ochosi> in a way, yes. but it really isn't hard to use a different theme
<knome> ;)
<brainwash> what about making the font bold in the active tab?
<knome> ...or a different way to resize the window
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: well, in this case gtk2 is the limit... in gtk3 i could probably do that
<knome> ochosi, ^ wouldn't that lead to tabs "nudging" ?
<ochosi> yeah, and it could lead to that
<ochosi> but as i can't even do it, i can't test it now :)
<ochosi> (our theme would look different anyway if we weren't restricted by gtk2)
<brainwash> more awesome?
<ochosi> i guess i'll take that as a compliment, and yes, in some areas, certainly more awesome
<ochosi> (fwiw, tabs would be one of those areas)
<ali1234> i'm going to fix the 1px border thing in xfwm
<ali1234> but after christmas
<ali1234> we should be able to have 0px borders... and still resize the windows
<knome> awwh, no nice christmas present from ali1234 ;(
<knome> ali1234, btw, why 1234?
<ali1234> ali123 was taken
<knome> why 123?
<ali1234> same
<knome> lol
<knome> why not non-ali?
<ali1234> i don't want to come up with a new name
<knome> lol
<knome> alib
<knome> or a_lib :P
<knome> or ali5n
<knome> or alib4n
<knome> wait, that's a bit close to taliban
<knome> alibxn
<knome> !
<GridCube> !enter | knome 
<ubottu> knome: Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line. Don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
<knome> GridCube, they weren't either questions or responses ;)
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> probably !flood then P:
<knome> ha
<slickymaster> knome: if you're around, please merge https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/199280 and update the tracker
<slickymaster> bbl
<pmjdebruijn> hi folks
<pmjdebruijn> "bigger" desktops (like GNOME/KDE) are now integrating color management configuration etc
<pmjdebruijn> this is still missing for XFCE (and thus Xubuntu), while I agree it an argument on itself, whether xfce/xubuntu should ever go there, "feature bloat"
<pmjdebruijn> I did a writeup, how color management can be configured right now on current xubuntu
<pmjdebruijn> https://encrypted.pcode.nl/blog/2013/11/24/display-color-profiling-on-linux/
<pmjdebruijn> I guess this is more of a FYI, if you ever come across users asking about this kinda thing, you know where to point them :)
<knome> meeting time soon
<elfy> wut?
<knome> oh wait
<knome> haha
<knome> no...
<knome> nvm
<knome> i'm off
<elfy> 48 hours maybe :p
<knome> yep :P
<brainwash> elfy: please test https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/power-manager-systemd
<Noskcaj> So trusty finally broke on my pc
<brainwash> Noskcaj: power-manager-systemd prevents systemd from shutting down immediately, so I was able to interact with the shutdown dialog :)
<brainwash> could not test lid events
<brainwash> oh, talking about power button event
<Noskcaj> Let me know if there's any fixes you want to add. I'll try and work on the autoreconf error when i get my laptop re-installed
<brainwash> I guess with the now included patches the systemd support should be complete
<elfy> just an upgrade required?
<elfy> seems not - nothing shows up after grabbing that ppa and updating
<brainwash> trusty, right?
<elfy> yea - what package is supposed to update with it?
<elfy> d-bus?
<brainwash> xfce4-power-manager and xfce4-power-manager-data
<elfy> nvm - stupid software updater failing again :D
<elfy> got all sorts itr seems gnumeric and nvidia ... 
<brainwash> apt should grab the version provided by the PPA
<brainwash> well, check "apt-cache policy xfce4-power-manager"
<elfy> so this should deal with the pressing power button and wishing I'd not issue I believe
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> it works for me now
<elfy> needs reboot ?
<brainwash> relog
<elfy> ok - I'll reboot and check the nvidia I think
<brainwash> hopefully I does not break your system :D
<brainwash> uhm "it does not.."
<brainwash> that makes more sense
<elfy> ok - so press power button - logs out the machine
<elfy> brainwash Noskcaj ^^
<elfy> no idea if I've edited any files - but power manager  has Ask for power button press
<brainwash> that is strange
<elfy> was there an upstart file we were editing at some point with this issue?
<brainwash> the logind.conf file
<brainwash> /etc/systemd/logind.conf
<elfy> don't remember doing anything with that one here
<brainwash> but the patched version of xfce power manager should now prevent systemd from performing any action
<brainwash> do you see the shutdown dialog for a brief moment?
<elfy> bash history shows me doing something with logind.conf
<elfy> really should back these things up ... 
<elfy> I'll look tomorrow on a clean install
<brainwash> you should also take a look at all the log files
<elfy> off to fight nvidia now 
<brainwash> ok :)
<brainwash> cya
<elfy> last time it took me a while to track down what was still blacklisting nouveau - should be easier this time :p
<McLovin> hello all
<McLovin> is there something wrong with the server? my connection to this channel only seems to be down
<knome> doesn't look like there is problems
<knome> and yeah.. the dev meeting is on thursday
<knome> you got me ;)
<McLovin> well, I'm showing a .1-.3 connection lag
<knome> that isn't much though
<McLovin> but only on this channel
<McLovin> the rest it's 0.0 or 0.1
<McLovin> then again, I am insane
<McLovin> so, 1st time joining, and I'm guessing noone has any issues to talk about?
<knome> we aren't always flooding the channel, yeah ;)
<elfy> ok - so that's been fun
<McLovin> ok, well how about this, anyone else have any issues with booting from live USB key?
<McLovin> on the 14.04 alpha I mean
<knome> McLovin, you should talk with elfy, he's our QA lead
<knome> so he should know..
<McLovin> ok, elfy have you seen that issue at all?
<elfy> brainwash Noskcaj - action buttons - shutdown/restart works fine - indicator-power I assume - same behaviour
<Unit193> elfy: Grabbing the i386 to see if I get it as well.
<elfy> logout fails from indicator-power but works from action buttons
<elfy> power press button - shutsdown the machine
<elfy> McLovin: sorry - was in the middle of shouting at the machine here :p
<McLovin> has anyone else have any issues with booting from live USB key?
<elfy> so what issue are you talking about?
<elfy> I missed all of what you said previously
<McLovin> I DD'd the alpha iso to a usb key, and when I tried to boot it, it gave me a blue screen with a black box, and the whole screen just was blinking rapidly
<elfy> brainwash Noskcaj so - it seems I've an issue here still 
<elfy> McLovin: not seen nor heard that one lately
<elfy> 32bit or 64bit
<McLovin> I'm gonna download another copy of the iso, dbl check the md5 and make sure all is good, and try again with a different usb key
<McLovin> I run 64bit
<elfy> I tend to use unetbootin - not really ever bothered with dd for it
<elfy> McLovin: well - have you checked the md5 against what you do have - that said the image was rebuilt earlier today
<McLovin> I got the image yesterday morning
<McLovin> my time
<Unit193> McLovin: Could use rsync or zsync to use part of the iso you already have.
<elfy> right - been a rebuild since then - 10:07UTC today
<elfy> Unit193: +1 to that
<brainwash> elfy: indicator-power is a different story and not being used by xubuntu (as of now)
<McLovin> I have stupid fast cpnnection speeds, so dling a new iso only takes about 45 seconds
<lderan> i used to have a stupidly fast connection speed :(
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so 2 days of nvidia and no return to that xchat issue - reinstalled nouveau tonight - waiting game
<Noskcaj> McLovin: wow. It just took me an hour
<elfy> lderan: then the speed caught up with the accent? 
<Unit193> McLovin: Hah, nice!
<Noskcaj> Is that a university internet or do you just live in the right place?
<lderan> elfy, yup :P
<brainwash> elfy: pressing the power button should perform the action specified via the xfce power manager, same for closing the (laptop) lid
<elfy> lderan: forever tarred with the Carrot badge :D
<McLovin> I pay a high price for my connection
<McLovin> and I live in the right area
<Noskcaj>  /rename-channel #xubuntu-offtopic
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1222021
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<elfy> brainwash: I assumed so - it's not though ;)
<McLovin> I have 80mb/s connection
<Noskcaj> McLovin: 100mbps in the nearest town to where i am
<brainwash> elfy: you should add a comment to the bug report then
<elfy> and indicator-power is not going to be a default xubuntu one ? 
<elfy> where's it say that?
<brainwash> we got the xfce-power-manager tray icon
<McLovin> version 20131217?
<McLovin> iso version I'm talking about
<elfy> McLovin: 2 secs
<elfy> 	http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20131217/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso
<elfy> looks to be the one you're looking at
<McLovin> yup yup
<elfy> brainwash: I'll remove power from the wiki then
<Unit193> Additional benefit of zsync is that it has the shasum embedded and checks it.
<brainwash> elfy: nah, it can be tested
<brainwash> elfy: same for the session and date&time indicator
<elfy> mmm
<McLovin> ok, I got the one from the pending now
<elfy> pending?
<McLovin> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/pending/
<elfy> think that's the same one 
<McLovin> it's the iso that was released at 10:04 this morning
<elfy> yea same -= just checked the md5's
<McLovin> yea, it is the same one
<McLovin> lol
<elfy> ochosi brainwash - plus side to whatever I appeared to have done to this in the last 45 minutes - lost the lag when logging in - seems to go straight to the desktop now
<McLovin> for some reason my download is going kinda slow right now
<elfy> no grey screen
<brainwash> elfy: maybe we need to discuss this, but I assume we will stay with the current panel setup and keep xfce-power-manaer (tray icon), xfce4-session panel item and xfce4-datetime-plugin
<elfy> McLovin: quick question - unrelated to current issue - what has brought you to us here - where do you read about our testing
<Unit193> McLovin: cdimage.ubuntu gives me less than half the speed I'm getting from us.archive.ubuntu.
<elfy> brainwash: yea - maybe add an agenda item for it
<brainwash> elfy: yes
<brainwash> elfy: no grey screen (flicker) is always good news :)
<elfy> indeed lol
<elfy> but I was still getting it with nvidia
<McLovin> elfy, I just wanted to try out xfce, and was building my own distro for myself for a while, and started to swsitch to an Ubuntu mini.iso base, and then building an XFCE desktop on top of that, then decided to give xubuntu a try, and figured, I know what needs to be done, and I'm able to build from scratch, know how to bug track and fix issues, so I figured I would see if I was able to out here in any wya
<McLovin> way*
<McLovin> why do you ask elfy?
<elfy> will doublecheck tomorrow - but I've logged in/out/shutdown a few times recently
<brainwash> elfy: did you maybe disable xfwm4's compositor?
<elfy> McLovin: because it's an uphill struggle getting people to test for us - just wondering if you'd seen it somewhere specific 
<elfy> brainwash: possibly
<elfy> no - enabled still
<brainwash> elfy: ok
<elfy> so that's another plus :D
<McLovin> no, I saw the get involved link, and decided to follow it and see if there was anything I could do
<elfy> ok - thanks :)
<McLovin> no problem
<elfy> brainwash: all the barious options in logind.conf are commented out 
<elfy> including #PowerKeyIgnoreInhibited=no
<brainwash> elfy: any suspicious errors/warnings in ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4.log? or in syslog?
<brainwash> or /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log
<brainwash> because a forced logout might point to a X server crash
<brainwash> the usual log file madness, check them all :)
<McLovin> ok, I'm gonna try the unetboot way to get the new iso onto a usb key, and see if I can get it installed and running
<elfy> McLovin: have you seen any of the current issues - mostly with user session#/
<McLovin> honestly, I just got home from the Dr and PT, so I haven't really had time to look at too much today, let go take a look at the bug reports, you got a quicker link to them I can use?
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1259662
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1259662 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Menus include settings applications" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> is annoying 
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/59196/testcases
<elfy> look there - you can mouseover the bugs - most of the descriptions sum them up nice;y
<elfy> the major one is you'll load to a login screen - make sure to set session to xubuntu, language to what you want and the username is xubuntu
<ali1234> what's that settings bug about?
<elfy> -default-settings?
<ali1234> i don't understand the bug
<ali1234> what were you expecting?
<elfy> live session doesn't get setup - you boot to login screen
<elfy> ali1234: the same as we always get ;)
<McLovin> why are Lubuntu and Ubuntu bugs being posted at the Xubuntu bug report page?
<elfy> they affect us
<ali1234> because there is overlap between all the flavours
<elfy> brainwash: nothing obvious I can see in the logs
<ali1234> elfy: so your system sub-menu is now huge?
<McLovin> ahh, well, yeah, some of them I can that do, like the GTK-3+ stuff, but things like keyboard selection on Unity desktop?
<elfy> ali1234: that bug - thought you were talking about the other one - yes, all the items in the settings manager are replicated outside the settings manager
<ali1234> *all* of them?
<McLovin> to change that I think you would just have to edit the .desktop files for those item
<elfy> ali1234: seems to be all of the settings manager items yep
<ali1234> because... if you put *everything* from settings manager into a menu on purpose - the menu has about 20 top level items and also some submenus
<elfy> ali1234: I'll do a screenshot
<Noskcaj> So i just finished my daily install, for some reason the default desktop was the Xfce session, rather than the Xubuntu session
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/282779
<elfy> McLovin: we shouldn't need to - that user session bug first appeared at the same time as the menu
<elfy> ali1234: yea - not right
<McLovin> ahh, ok
<elfy> Noskcaj: as far as I know this is all to do with the same issue
<elfy> they certainly appeared at the same time and on the same image
<Noskcaj> ok
<elfy> ahah - latest image seems to have lost the menu issue
<elfy> not looked since before 1000 this morning
<ali1234> i just updated my trusty install and don't see it. i'm not curently testing isos though
<ali1234> my custom settings menu still works fine too
<elfy> might just be on iso's 
<ali1234> the upstart idicator ting still isn't fixed :(
<elfy> I tend to not use the dailies themselves other than to test - this install just get's updated as they roll in
<elfy> brainwash: earlier when I was talking about the indicators - spoke about the power one - I was wrong I meant the session management one 
<brainwash> elfy: the cog wheel?
<elfy> yea
<elfy> logout doesn't work for me from it
<brainwash> I don't use that one
<brainwash> but I will test it somewhat later
 * elfy neither - but as I Was checking the others - I checked these too
<brainwash> maybe you should list these indicator as optional ones
<elfy> me?
<brainwash> indicator-session -datetime -power
<brainwash> yes, the wiki article
<elfy> agenda?
<Guest3932> ok, i got the live iso to boot
<brainwash> gtk3 indicator article
<elfy> would be better to discuss at a meeting and then list these things as optionals I think
<brainwash> they bloat the panel and we don't intend to use them anyway
<brainwash> right
<elfy> there you go again - what's this 'we' - I've seen nothing at all anywhere about which we might or not be using
<ali1234> agreed. the wiki page lists *all* of them
<brainwash> uhm, the great xubuntu spirit :D
<elfy> lol
<elfy> well it needs to get off it's arse and mail the list then :p
<brainwash> no one mentioned that we will switch to these specific indiactors
<brainwash> so we keep the current panel setup
<ali1234> well, it's not even in the main distro yet
<brainwash> but we got a working PPA now at least
<elfy> yep - step forward :)
<brainwash> on top of that, with the patched indicator-sound-gtk2 for saucy we can now focus on trusty and gtk3 indi support
<elfy> wb McLovin_ 
<McLovin_> thank you
<McLovin_> I got the new iso to boot, but all the fonts are messed up
<Unit193> We still don't have indicator-sound-gtk2, is it stuck in upload queue?
<elfy> McLovin_: bangladesh fonts? you need to set that at the login screen currently
<McLovin_> some are normal and in plain english, others looked like they were arabic maybe?
<McLovin_> yes, that would be it
<elfy> yep - set that at the flag icon on login screen
<McLovin_> ok, I must not have read everything like an idiot
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I've read them so often that my head is spinning at the moment
<McLovin_> <-------------please excuse the noob
<elfy> then I got a slightly different variation on that theme with the 32bit image - that went to xfce session regardless of what session I set 
<brainwash> bug 1245585
<ubottu> bug 1245585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "LiveCD: wrong language selected by default on login screen" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245585
<brainwash> ^
<McLovin_> ok, I'll work on that and other things in a little bit, like I said, I was at Dr and PT all day, so I'm kinda tired, and I need to eat something, so. I'll be back later most likely
<McLovin_> ttyal
<elfy> back tomorrow
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: i'm very interested in getting that in xfce at least in some optional way, but i'm not sure, when i last looked at it it seemed like a terrible amount of work (with stuff i have no clue about)
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: your article is really a nice read!
<knome> ochosi, want to do a round of wallpaper stuff?
<ochosi> yeah, could do
<ochosi> last round before christmas
<knome> if you say so ;)
<ochosi> well yeah, actually after tday afternoon i'll be gone more or less until january
<knome> ah
<ochosi> lots of travelling and meeting family
<knome> have fun then, and merry christmas and happy new year!
<ochosi> almost every day in a different place...
<ochosi> ty :)
<knome> huhu
<knome> that's sick
<ochosi> well i'll be around *till* thursday
<knome> but that's pretty much what my wife does with her 6 days off
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> well i don't have much choice
<knome> same city though, so always gets home for the night
<ochosi> anyhoo, wallpapers: i already talked to gridcube that his photos don't have enough resolution
<ochosi> but he doesn't have them in a higher resolution
<knome> did he submit some?
<ochosi> so i'm wondering whether we should accept them because they're not getting in the set anyway...
<knome> what's the resolution?
<ochosi> 2048 x 1536
<ochosi> our minimum in the guidelines is 2560 x 1600
<knome> yep, i'm looking at that
<knome> probably best to stick with the guidelines.
<ochosi> yeah, if we already decide on a limit, it's kinda odd having to justify going for another limit later
<ochosi> anyway, he understood when i pointed it out
<knome> yes, and lookd dubious if we bend/change the rules for a team member
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> so i'll remove them with a note in the changelog
<knome> i don't see them in submissions
<knome> do i have something cached?
<knome> oh, another alias
<ochosi> sorry, they're already gone...
<ochosi> you can go to the history
<ochosi> i haven't removed the attachments yet
<knome> i've seen them
<knome> i was just wondering what photos were you talking about :)
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> knome: ok, my part is done
<knome> oki
<knome> and done
<ochosi> cool, ta
<knome> np
<sergiobenrocha2> hello
<sergiobenrocha2> how can i assign 1 bug to xubuntu?
<knome> what bug and why?
<sergiobenrocha2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1216594
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1216594 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce power manager reports invalid battery life information" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<sergiobenrocha2> yes
<sergiobenrocha2> it is
<sergiobenrocha2> i don't understand very well... there is a lot of bug in xubuntu, but only 5 or 6 is assign to this page: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/309/builds
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, it changed to 3
<knome> those iso tests do not cover all the aspects of xubuntu
<knome> packages.qa.ubuntu.com for more testing
<sergiobenrocha2> humm, ok
<sergiobenrocha2> if i tag "trusty" in launchpad, it assign to this page, if the package is in xubuntu/xfce ?
<knome> no
<knome> you will have to report a test result from the tracker for the bug to show up in that list
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: meh, i just get weird errors with dispcal (different I/O errors with the saucy version and your PPA, so it obviously doesn't like me)
<sergiobenrocha2> i can reproduce Bug #1210898 
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<sergiobenrocha2> but i'm using the ppa's...
<ochosi> yeah, looks like automount is borked
<brainwash> shouldn't thunar-volman be the target package?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> although it could also be a bug in thunar
<ochosi> hard to say
<brainwash> software, please stop breaking 
<brainwash> :D
<sergiobenrocha2> hehe
 * ochosi waits to see whether that helps
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-18
<ochosi> knome: yay, the item formerly known as "item 2" on this list has been fixed upstream in gmusicbrowser http://pad.ubuntu.com/oTOfP4p8z7
<ochosi> knome: (and i've tested it and it works, obviously)
<cell> boo
<ochosi> jjfrv8: just had time now to review your prefs changes
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i think i like how it's done, but i think stuff like "
<ochosi> "The same four color options as in earlier versions are available from the Color: list."
<ochosi> is superfluous
<cell> I plan to attend the community meeting here on Dec. 19, 2100 UTC
<Unit193> Sounds like a plan to me.
 * skellat will be unavoidably absent from Thursday's meeting
<cell> I will not arrive until 2215 UTC but perhaps it will be a long meeting or there will be stragglers
<sergiobenrocha2> anyone?
<sergiobenrocha2> hey
<elfy> brainwash: so I must have blinked when the grey screen was there yesterday ... 
<Noskcaj> Have we got a blog post about http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=lini_pc_haswell&num=1 ?
<elfy> no
<elfy> Noskcaj: write one ;)
<Noskcaj> I might try tomorrow
<elfy> ochosi: and xchat goes for the late '90s again - so it logically must be something to do with nouveau
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/pP6bcJEK same sort of error 
<elfy> not quite sure what to report this against 
<elfy> if it's something we can fix - happy to run whatever's needed to get trace etc
<elfy> if not - it's just get lost in LP and I'll just reinstall nvidia and forget about it 
<elfy> s/it'll
<elfy> at the same time the indicator panel in the panel is transparent again
<elfy> so lots of coincidences - but whether they are 'really' related I've no idea
<elfy> and the terminal running tail just closed for no apparent reason
<elfy> :(
<ochosi> Unit193: which reminds me that we should also deactivate roll-up window on scroll over the titlebar. it's just too confusing for new users and sometimes happens accidentally
<elfy> ochosi: did you see the wall of text from me earlier or did you lose it with the net split stuff?
<ochosi> i did, but so far i don't know what to reply
<ochosi> it's quite puzzling
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether there are bugs in nouveau though that cause this kind of behavior
<elfy> possibly 
<ochosi> does the indicator-transparency happen with nouveau or nvidia?
<elfy> I get this random gpu lockup with nouveau as well
<elfy> I've not seen the transparency issue with nvidia - and I'd have expected to have seen it over the last couple of days
<ochosi> hm
<elfy> could possibly just be this machine 
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we'll get more testers with nouveau who report stuff like this, or whether it's a combination of nouveau and your graphics card
<ochosi> yeah, that would be my hope
<elfy> snap :p
<ochosi> but i fear that if you have it, others might see it too
<ochosi> especially as it's LTS
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> could always mail the list(s) 
<elfy> if it was the other way round - nouveau working/nvidia not it'd be less worrisome
<elfy> I'd leave this machine on nouveau if there was a way to reset xchat without logging out - but it drives me nuts after an hour of looking at it :D
<ochosi> yeah, i understand
<ochosi> well just as an example, i can't use nouveau because the fan of my laptop is then always on
<ochosi> in other news: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=lini_pc_haswell&num=1
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> morning slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey elfy 
<elfy> ochosi: yea - saw that - jackson was on about it - he's writing a blog item he says 
<elfy> after I told him too :p
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> crap, have you seen the website of linipc? :>
<elfy> ochosi: http://pastebin.com/L3Q74Z6h
<elfy> nope
<elfy> ochosi: I have now ... 
<elfy> I can post that ^^ to the test lists - or at least our ones
<elfy> and the -quality one - might get someone there to try xubuntu for us
<elfy> ochosi: perhaps they're applying the hardware/software logic to everything :p
<elfy> if that pastebin looks half sensible I'll post it later
<slickymaster> elfy: do you have a minute to take a look at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases/1585/results
<slickymaster> it's still instructing testers to make use of gksudo
<elfy> is it?
<slickymaster> haven't you taken care of that?
<slickymaster> yeaps
<elfy> I thought I'd done that
<slickymaster> let me check the code in -qa trunk
<elfy> oh - it got approved then nothing else got done 
<ochosi> elfy: sounds good to me
<elfy> slickymaster: it's good in the testcases - looks to me like it needs to just be done on the tracker
<slickymaster> elfy: the test in the main branch is correct
<elfy> yea
<slickymaster> isn't ^^
<slickymaster> and yeah the tracker hasn't been updated
<slickymaster> but the test needs to be fixed
<slickymaster> elfy: presently you have dt>Press Alt+F2</dt> -> <dd>Application Finder opens</dd> -> <dt>In dialogue type sudo -i mousepad, press Launch</dt> -> <dd>Application Finder closes, authorisation dialogue opens</dd>
<elfy> ok - marked the code merged - no idea what went on there, tracker is now updated too
<slickymaster> elfy: ^^^
<slickymaster> that test needs to be fixed
<slickymaster> what I wrote above is incorrect as it doesn't happens
<elfy> slickymaster: I'm having trouble reading stuff in xchat atm - if there's a bug report it please
<slickymaster> elfy: ok, I'll report it and will do MP to fix it, if it's ok with you
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> not sure how that managed to get onto the main branch but not merged
<elfy> ochosi: ok - posted to lists and on the forum as well
<elfy> I'm reinstalling nvidia now - can go backwards if necessary in the future ... 
<ochosi> okey, thanks elfy!
<elfy> welcome - I do what I can :)
<brainwash> ochosi: AMD restricted driver and the background of my gtk3 indicators turns transparent after some application adds its indicator to the panel or when I swit between themes and then return to greybird
<ochosi> brainwash: hmm :/
<elfy> oooh 
<ochosi> well i can only hope that the gtk3 transparency issues will be sorted out by a panel patch of sorts
<elfy> brainwash: so since I added jackson's ppa yesterday - the restart button when you install nvidia in software - does exactly nothing ... 
<brainwash> elfy: create a bug report :)
<elfy> sick of reporting stuff lol
<elfy> and what should I report it against ... jackson :p
<brainwash> ochosi: just installed the latest version of xubuntu-icon-theme, don't really like the black terminal icon when used with greybird (black icon / black panel)
<brainwash> just my first impression
<brainwash> elfy: 
<elfy>  indicators turns transparent after some application adds its indicator to the panel or when I swit between themes and then return to greybird
<brainwash> woops
<brainwash> jockey-gtk maybe
<elfy> I just got that changing icons
<elfy> brainwash: it worked fine the other day - so the cause of it not working would logically be the ppa
<brainwash> the restart button?
<elfy> in jockey 
<elfy> worked ok the other day
<brainwash> is it even jockey? it's now part of software-properties I think
<brainwash> yep, that's strange
<brainwash> "the ppa"?
<brainwash> you mean the power-manager one?
<elfy> no - install nvidia via jockey/software updates tab thing/ you get a restart button - not working now
<elfy> ochosi: I'm also not so sure about the black terminal icon on this black panel ... 
<brainwashx> my xchat looks fine
<elfy> mine does until it happens
<elfy> then it looks like the screenshot and the startxfce4 log error shows and the panel goes transparent
<elfy> s/does/did - it won't happen now I've got nvidia installed
<elfy> slickymaster: I'm not sure why that testcase even asks for that - just change it for any old random command
<elfy> I think that I was half way to doing that - which is why the testcase got left hanging, then it all went wrong here with health and I forgot
<brainwash> our special xubuntu bug advent calendar
<elfy> LOL
 * elfy gets the chocolate
<slickymaster> elfy:are you saying to completely drop all the instructions that refers to open an application with the root account? because that's almost the entire test?
<elfy> oooh - now I go to Alt F I remember what I was going to do - I picked the same thing to use instead of the root command
<elfy> I was going to replace the current stuff with thunar /home
<elfy> slickymaster: commented on bug
<slickymaster> elfy: saw it ;) I'll go that way then
<elfy> makes sense to me - and must have then too lol
<elfy> sorry that I forgot about that
<elfy> I think that's why it wasn't merged - as I knew I was going to rework it again
<slickymaster> np
<knome> ochosi, cool
<ochosi> knome: i encouraged quentin to do a release soon so it'll get to us through debian
<ochosi> but he wants to fix google-image-search first
<ochosi> (or in fact find alternatives for it, since it doesn't work anymore)
<knome> okay
<knome> fixing point 1 would be cool as well
<ochosi> yeah, but i see less hope for that tbh
<ochosi> i'm not sure i remember perl and the gmb source well enough to do something useful with it
<ochosi> and the only idea i came up with is an ugly hack
 * elfy posts the the xfce dev mailing list to introduce myself to P.K whoever that is so he knows at least one person who "I've never met anyone who actually uses the mousewheel-rollup on purpose,"
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> elfy: i still do agree though that this should be disabled by default in xubuntu
<elfy> I'm not too worried about disabling ti by default and can see the reasons for it
<ochosi> knome: what do you think? ^
<elfy> same with the supposed double click in the title bar - which apparently could do something - I have NEVER managed to get that to work - must be set to some speed that I can never get to
<ochosi> double-clicking the titlebar maximizes a window
<ochosi> and that works fine here
<elfy> nope - never get that to work - ever
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> but you know how to double-click, right? :D
<elfy> must be something like 79ms exactly anything above or below and you're right out of luck :p
<ochosi> hm, you can try to increase the double-click tie
<ochosi> time
<ochosi> anyway, g2g, bbl
<knome> ochosi, yep, agreed
<elfy> that was easy 3 off +1's to that then :)
<knome> elfy, i forwarded you a mail in case you're not subbed to -release ML
<elfy> I saw that, but I am subbed to it :) thanks though
<knome> ta
<knome> i'll try to remember you are ;)
<elfy> when is A1 finished - tomorrow ?
<knome> also more critical now since i don't now much about our ISOs atm..
<knome> yep, thurdays are release days
<elfy> yep - I have been watching them this week 
<knome> is our ISO working now?
<knome> or do we still have the login bug?
<elfy> well ... 
<knome> also, would you be able to write some release notes?
<elfy> we still have the login bug
<slickymaster> knome: he still have it
<slickymaster> we
<knome> any hope of getting it fixed?
<elfy> knome: can try - back to work tomorrow
<knome> did somebody do the sponsorship queue paperwork?
<elfy> knome: I don't think so - not even sure if it got added to the sponsor queue to be honest - and no idea how to even check
<elfy> I saw micah and Unit193 talking about it in -offtopic logs 
<knome> elfy, http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<knome> micahg, ping me when you're around
<knome> let's hold the release/ISO for now
<knome> i'll try to take care of that today
<elfy> ok 
<knome> i should have another internet here now :P
<elfy> another one? 
<elfy> greedy ... 
<knome> haha, yeah...
<knome> well you need to have backup plans :P
<elfy> lol
<elfy> I have trusty mother half a mile away with some internets
<knome> heh
<jjfrv8> ochosi, per your suggestion, I removed the "same four color options..." line from the Prefs section.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: yeah, i'm wondering whether we shouldn't keep the diff as minimal as possible
<ochosi> it will not be standalone anyway, it should only highlight what has changed
<ochosi> you've done that nicely with the icons-section i think
<ochosi> so personally, i'd also drop the "menus" section entirely if there was no change
<jjfrv8> k, wilco
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I can hook up a multi-monitor setup to do that too once slickymaster is close to finishing Usage
<ochosi> that'd be really nice!
<ochosi> i'll send an email to Nick and eric_the_idiot_ then so they can review and give us some feedback
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: which instrument do you have?
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: hm, so i definitely *need* a spider for this to work?
<pmjdebruijn> yeah
<pmjdebruijn> of course
<ochosi> hm, i read about doing it "with the eye" with a white sheet of paper
<pmjdebruijn> yeah need a colorimeter or spectrophotometer
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: yeah, that's near nonsense
<ochosi> ok :)
<pmjdebruijn> in theory it can be done, but practically speaking there are GINORMOUS margins of error
<ochosi> well i was testing gnome3 a while ago and it had some default profiles which all looked better than the blue-ish crap i have now
<pmjdebruijn> oh possibly
<pmjdebruijn> if you have a profile for the same type of display, it'll likely give decent results
<pmjdebruijn> it wouldn't be super precise because of backlight aging and so
<ochosi> i'm not really expecting something that implements 98%SRGB on my laptop, i have my eizo monitor for that
<pmjdebruijn> though just getting rid of the blue can be done more easily though
<pmjdebruijn> https://encrypted.pcode.nl/blog/2012/01/21/my-notebook-display-is-too-bluish/
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> very true, that improves things decently
<ochosi> thanks a bunch, i'll add that to startup
<pmjdebruijn> :)
<pmjdebruijn> probably the vcgt in a proper profiles does the same thing as xgamma, namely manipulate the videolut
<pmjdebruijn> except that a proper profiles does it in more detail (and is measured to be correct)
<ochosi> are you using xubuntu now or were you just posting this here?
<pmjdebruijn> I use Unity on my main desktop, where I'm happy with it
<pmjdebruijn> but Unity is a bit of a beast of netbooks
<pmjdebruijn> so I use xubuntu now on my netbook
<pmjdebruijn> and I'm quite impressed with xubuntu (and xfce) these days
<pmjdebruijn> you guys have done a lot of great work
 * pmjdebruijn will love to see light locker in 14.03
<ochosi> thanks, that's nice to hear
<ochosi> are you using it already?
<pmjdebruijn> light locker
<ochosi> yup
<pmjdebruijn> I did a backport from trusty to saucy
<pmjdebruijn> but it didn't work well
<pmjdebruijn> I think it crashed my X
<ochosi> no need, we have a daily PPA
<pmjdebruijn> not sure if I was using it properly though
<ochosi> for saucy too
<pmjdebruijn> ah
<pmjdebruijn> I guess I should give that a try then
<ochosi> if you need help with light-locker, feel free to ping me
<ochosi> i'm using it on saucy without troubles
<pmjdebruijn> thanks, I'll give it a spin tonight I guess
<ochosi> okeydokey
<pmjdebruijn> do I need to uninstall gnome/xscreensaver
<elfy> ochosi: I've got it here - lock screen from action buttons doesn't work/ctrl+alt+del doesn't do it either
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: yeah, better to do that
<pmjdebruijn> xscreensaver is quite functional, but it's soo darn ugly :)
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: right, will do
<ochosi> elfy: you have to patch /usr/bin/xflock4 for that to work
<elfy> oh that's somthing to with xflock isn't it 
<elfy> aaand snap again lol
<ochosi> really easy patch
<pmjdebruijn> does xflock need to  be patched
<pmjdebruijn> it would a xscrensaver wrapper script fix it too?
<ochosi> no, xscreensaver should be removed
<pmjdebruijn> I know
<ochosi> otherwise you might get in a conflict
<pmjdebruijn> I meant wrapper light-locker with a script to pretend it's xscreensaver
<pmjdebruijn> for xflock
<elfy> ochosi: if it's easy I'll do it - on the other hand I might wait for Bug 1254366 
<ubottu> bug 1254366 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Add support for light-locker in xflock4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254366
<ochosi> but really, xflock is not a very clever script, it just tries one command after the other, better to patch that ;)
<ochosi> elfy: it's really really easy
<elfy> The patch looks good, can it be forward to the upstream developers please?
<pmjdebruijn> oh btw
<elfy> said dan holbach
<pmjdebruijn> which reminds me
 * pmjdebruijn is still fighting gnome keyring
<pmjdebruijn> anybody here experience on that?
<elfy> not here
<pmjdebruijn> is it correct for xfce gnome keyring daemon is launched by pam?
 * pmjdebruijn doesn't want to gpg component
<pmjdebruijn> it interferes with smartcard operation
<pmjdebruijn> on gnome I can disable it in the /etc/xdg/autostart desktop files, but those are ignored by xfce
<ochosi> you should be able to modify that in the sessions & startup settings
 * pmjdebruijn tried making an xfce specific .desktop file, with the --replace operator, but then it requiries for my password again
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: I tried a couple of variations
<pmjdebruijn> it's not that easy
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, it will be fixed upstream too, but for the moment having the delta would be better in order to keep things working for us. things tend to take too long otherwise
<pmjdebruijn> I guess I should try to contact the gnome keyring people themselves
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: possibly, i don't have much experience because i haven't had any problems with the keyring so far..
<elfy> ochosi: single syllable instructions then :p
<elfy> or chuck it on a txt file and I can call for testing at the same time if you want ;)
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: if it weren't for GnuPG smart card operation, it would have been fine too :(
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> elfy: it really is a 2-line patch and it's so dead simple and obvious that it doesn't need any testing really
<elfy> ok
<elfy> so we'll not be needing to wrry about testing lightlocker at all? 
<elfy> if that's the case I'll remove it from the blueprint
<ochosi> no, the xflock4 patch doesn't need testing
<ochosi> light-locker will need some testing
<elfy> ok - thought I'd get one of the blocked things gone :D
<ochosi> but as far as i know, it hasn't been added to the seed nor has anything else been done about it
<elfy> well I'm cynical so aren't actually expecting anyone to get me to do anything from my side till the middle of March at the earliest ;)
<knome> elfy, expect more involvement from my side on january
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: i understand you, believe me. i'm just not part of xubuntu-dev, so all i could do is merge-requests
<knome> or whenever i have a working chair...
<elfy> ochosi: I know 
<elfy> knome: I laugh
<knome> well the old one we dumped, it was so broken
<knome> need to go and buy a new one
<elfy> ochosi: so this easy patch - just edit xflock4 to this ? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157461573/xflock4-light-locker-support.diff
<ochosi> elfy: exactly
<elfy> that works then
<elfy> ochosi: did you see comments about the black terminal icon on the black panel earlier - if I've not got my glasses on I can't actually see it here
<ochosi> no, didn't
<elfy> well - ^^ then :p
<elfy> while I don't have a default panel setup - I don't do anything with the colours of it
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> ok, will think about it
<elfy> :)
<elfy> not everyone is young with good eyes ;)
<elfy> ok - really off for a bit now
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: btw, @blue displays, https://encrypted.pcode.nl/files/temp/HSD121PHW1.png
<pmjdebruijn> might be interesting to see, that's spectral pattern from a cheap netbook (which has a too blue display as well)
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: that's the measurement with a colorhug?
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: no, colorimeters don't offer that kinda accuracy
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: that's with a colormunki photo spectrophotometer
<elfy> made up names I am sure :p
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: would be interesting to compare results of popular notebook-screens with that
<pmjdebruijn> a 'colormunki photo' is a real product :D
<ochosi> :]
<elfy> :)
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: probably very similar
<pmjdebruijn> as with notebook everything needs to be compact
<pmjdebruijn> so they are rarely decent
 * pmjdebruijn has to run again
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: hmm, just wonder where the blue tendency comes from... ttyl then :)
<pmjdebruijn> well the backlight
<pmjdebruijn> white leds are quite blueish by their nature
<pmjdebruijn> IIRC
<ochosi> hm, i see, would be nice if we could offer an easy way to help ppl with that in xubuntu
<ochosi> just offer a few presets or something. do you think that would make sense or that meaningful presets could be created, pmjdebruijn ?
<andrzejr> Anyone seeing bug #542336? Software-center used up 4GB memory + 4GB swap and got killed because of OOM exception
<ubottu> bug 542336 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software centre is memory hog and sometimes becomes unresponsive" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542336
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: yes sortof
<pmjdebruijn> the xgamma trick is the easiest
<pmjdebruijn> just taking away a little blue generally works on most of these display
<pmjdebruijn> but, that doesn't make them "color accurate"
<ochosi> yeah, sure
<ochosi> i'm thinking more about: nicer to use/look at
<pmjdebruijn> right
<ochosi> photographers should get a spectrometer of sorts anyway
<pmjdebruijn> but such a feature could conflict is someone actually wants to do proper color management (with xiccd for example)
<pmjdebruijn> since both would manipulate the videolut
<pmjdebruijn> are it's basically a race condition
<pmjdebruijn> and*
<ochosi> what i have in mind is providing e.g. 3-5 presets, that could be optionally chosen (so no default) in e.g. the display settings
<ochosi> or even in a separate dialog, if we allow more stuff
<pmjdebruijn> right
<pmjdebruijn> that could work
<pmjdebruijn> but something in xfce session would been to manipulate the videolut
<pmjdebruijn> also keep in mind that if the videolut is manipulated to strongly the user might be visible banding
<ochosi> why? it could be a simple app that creates an autostart item that sets the xgamma for starters
<pmjdebruijn> true
<pmjdebruijn> but in that case, I'd probably just call it xfgamma :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, maybe
<pmjdebruijn> and allow the user to set each gamma value (with a few presets)
<ochosi> yeah
<pmjdebruijn> less yellow
<pmjdebruijn> more yellow
<pmjdebruijn> most yellow
<pmjdebruijn> or something like that :)
<ochosi> exactly, that sounds really nice
<ochosi> would you be interested in writing such a tiny tool?
<pmjdebruijn> haha :)
<ochosi> :D
<pmjdebruijn> not really
 * pmjdebruijn is into full color management
<ochosi> don't tell me you didn't see that coming!
 * pmjdebruijn worked on xiccd
<ochosi> yeah, i understand
<ochosi> but xubuntu (and xfce even more so) is understaffed anyway, so we can use every help we can get
<pmjdebruijn> I know
 * pmjdebruijn is already stretched between projects (darktable/gnome-color-manager/colord/gnoduino/exiv2/lensfun)
 * pmjdebruijn is doing a little beta testing on the intel drivers now tearfree feature
<ochosi> so see my shameful attempt to trick you into doing that in this context :)
<ochosi> uuh, sounds nice
<pmjdebruijn> btw
<pmjdebruijn> in theory
<pmjdebruijn> having a app for the xfce control panel
<pmjdebruijn> does that have any special requirements?
<ochosi> not really
<ochosi> i mean if it should go into xfce4-settings upstream, there are some "rules"
<pmjdebruijn> vala would probably be out, right? :D
<ochosi> no, you can use vala if you please
<pmjdebruijn> oh? :S
<ochosi> it's only xfce-core that is c-only
<pmjdebruijn> oh right
<ochosi> some other xfce stuff is written in vala
<pmjdebruijn> well I doubt I'll have time to work on this though, but if I get bored I might give it a ago
<ochosi> nice, that's good enough for me :)
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: feel free to ping me anytime about that
<pmjdebruijn> :)
<pmjdebruijn> I'll play with light-locker first :)
<ochosi> sure thing :)
<pmjdebruijn> and then I still have the gnome-keyring thing to look into too :)
<ochosi> yeah, that one sounded tricky
<pmjdebruijn> well GNOME does it, so it's possible
<ochosi> ideally, light-locker is something you don't really have to touch much
<pmjdebruijn> just need to know how :)
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: @ll, sure
<slickymaster> bbl
<Noskcaj> Good news everyone. prpltwtr now fully works with API 1.1
<ali1234> what does that mean?
<knome> ali1234, i imagine that's the twitter plugin for pidgin
<ali1234> and API 1.1 is what?
<ali1234> required for apps to use?
<knome> the current api, i suppose
<ali1234> or just nice to have?
<knome> the old plugin broke
<ali1234> i don't get twitter
<ali1234> it reminds me of youtube comments (the old ones) except without the video
<elfy> twitter is aptly named 
<sergiobenrocha2> i have a problem with alpha iso, xfce4-settings is broken in amd64 iso, or it seems...
<sergiobenrocha2> greybird theme is not working, and other settings are reset...
<brainwash> link to bug report?
<elfy> sergiobenrocha2: I'd guess that you didn't set the session to xubuntu nor the language
<elfy> the whole thing is reported in a bug already
<sergiobenrocha2> no, i set xubuntu session and english language. I tested in EFI and non EFI system.
<sergiobenrocha2> see: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1262049
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1262049 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Xfce4-settings is broken in amd64 iso" [Undecided,New]
<sergiobenrocha2> in the first time that i saw the blue theme, i thought that it was changed from Greybird to other
<elfy> 32 bit was like that yesterday - changing things at the login screen made no difference
<elfy> try todays image - there were changes - zsync saw 20% or so difference I think
<sergiobenrocha2> 32 bit? i tested in VM, it is normal
<sergiobenrocha2> humm, OK
<elfy> though to be honest I doubt you'll see much change as the fixes we had/have are stuck in the queue so it's not really worth discussing it now until those changes are there
<sergiobenrocha2> gtk3 themes and other things are in the iso?
<elfy> sergiobenrocha2: everything is on there
<elfy> knome: unless we actually get the user session issue actually in I see no point in doing anything much with this alpha release and while it's not really what we'd like to have out there I don't see much point in hanging on to it and would be better to just go back to dailies
<sergiobenrocha2> the iso is great
<sergiobenrocha2> why thunar does not have Downloads, Documents and other folders in Side Pane, by default?
<ali1234> sergiobenrocha2: i dunno, but you can just add them to ~/.gtk-bookmarks
<sergiobenrocha2> yeah, I can drag and drop each folder to side pane too
<sergiobenrocha2> but for a begginer, i think it's better to be default
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: in 13.10?
<sergiobenrocha2> no, in trusty
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: im not sure that the team is up to that yet
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: are you doing official iso testing?
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, i want to
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: otherwise, you should be able to customize all the parts of the operating system to fit your personal needs after its released
<sergiobenrocha2> yeah, this is not problem for me
<sergiobenrocha2> i want to help, but all is a bit confusing for me...
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: its just not out yet.. so, little things like that could have just not been attended to yet
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: the qa iso testing is *quite* helpful
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: you dont report here, or the list.. you do it right there.. following the test guidelines
<sergiobenrocha2> so, i'm testing today daily build, if i find something i reported to launchpad, and then I (or other person, dunno) assign to iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/..... ?
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: it depends on what you fine
<sergiobenrocha2> sorry, i'm very noob at devel :)
<holstein> !bug
<ubottu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: otherwise, just downloading the iso daily.. you dont need to report anything
<sergiobenrocha2> yeah, ubuntu-bug i already use
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: especially preferences
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, ok
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: you can follow the qa testing.. that helps, since, or *all* the isos there are, they *must* be a certain number of tests done, in order to be released
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: if you find a bug that is related to something in patricular, you report it like the above !bug link outlines
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: also, for the upcoming releases, hang in #ubuntu+1
<elfy> unless it's already reported - when you use the tracker you'll see bugs people have reported - in those cases you can just report the bug number against your results
<sergiobenrocha2> qa testing is this? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds
<holstein> yup.. you can check there for bugs that have already been reported, and add yourself to them
<elfy> that's the daily - at the moment we're testing the alpha 1 release
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: those change, and can change.. i usually hang and ask the the release channel when the tests are due
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: if something is wrong, a new iso can be pushed out.. its good to check in and make certain you are not testing an older iso
<elfy> sergiobenrocha2: you need to subscribe to the dev mailing list - which is where I post what testing we are up to
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
<sergiobenrocha2> yeah, i'm trying to read all of mailing list, i'm already subscribe
<elfy> well I'd not read all of it :)
<elfy> anything important testing wise will be from me
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: then, you will check your mail, and the announce will come out about testing from elfy .. you will be able to help test the iso's that are necessary
<elfy> and anything that's older than a month I'd ignore
<holstein> yeah.. the iso testings that need to happen, need to happen pretty quick
<holstein> elfy: in a few days? you's say? maybe 3 or 4
<elfy> sergiobenrocha2: we have 2 strands of testing at the moment - image and packaging, shortly will be joined by a third 
<elfy> holstein: not sure what you mean?
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, ok
<elfy> sergiobenrocha2: and I make sure that mailings about images and packages are obviously different
<holstein> elfy: when the request for iso testing for a milestone occurs.. theres a deadline.. it wouldnt make sense to QA test an older iso, for example
<holstein> elfy: i was just trying to give sergiobenrocha2 an idea of the time frame for iso testing.. which is arguably one of the easiest ways to contribute constructively
<elfy> oic no - not at all - when we decide enough is enough - we mark the image ready - then no-one can report against them anyway
<holstein> elfy: OK
<elfy> actually I disagree at the moment 
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, ok, starting to understand
<elfy> much the eaasiest way at the moment is testing packages - which you can do at anytime at all - even when you're working if you are clever about it :)
<elfy> anyway - gtg now 
<elfy> back tomorrow
<holstein> o/
<holstein> i think i was just seeing it like this... an iso works or doesnt.. and you just report in the QA tracker
<elfy> there is that :)
<elfy> cya holstein sergiobenrocha2 
<holstein> you dont have to deal with bug reports.. but.. package testing could be easier depending on where the user is, i agree
<sergiobenrocha2> so, what it matters? testing alpha 1 image or today daily build?
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: testing packages is on going..
<sergiobenrocha2> ok, but using daily build, ok?
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: you want to use current packages.. in case a fix has already been applied
<sergiobenrocha2> one thing i'm a bit confuse is, why whisker menu, gtk3 indicators and light-locker are not in iso already? I have to install PPA, and then do testing... it's not more easy to have all that in official repo? at least in proposed repo
<holstein> !ppa
<ubottu> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge
<holstein> sergiobenrocha2: you wont want to add ppa's to test packages.. even the dependencies could through the results off
<Noskcaj> I've got  basic prpltwtr PPA at https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/prpltwtr ready for testing
<Noskcaj> I'm trying to get upstream to merge my debian fixes and package it as a native release
<holstein> yeah.. accept for dev team ppa's that are requested to be tested sergiobenrocha2  ^
<knome> elfy, i actually think it's still a valuable checkpoint
<knome> elfy, just mention the regression in the notes (it's an alpha release, people are supposed to read that) and we can carry on with other testing
<slickymaster> good night all
<ochosi> night slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey ochosi 
<slickymaster> ochosi, it's only my part that is missing in the xfdesktop but I'll finish it before the weekend
<ochosi> slickymaster: sure, no worries
<ochosi> i'll actually be a bit afk in the next days
<ochosi> lots travelling and duties when i come home...
<slickymaster> yeah, and Christmas is at our doors
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi knome
<ochosi> slickymaster: exactly, so we'll see, to the worst we'll get things merged 2014 ;)
<slickymaster> ochosi, well, if we're talking about first January week, it's not so bad
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, i'll be around then again
<slickymaster> but we'll have time to wish a merry christmas and a happy new year before that, I hope ochosi
<ochosi> yup, hope so too
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> knome, mind if I bother you and ask you a favor?
<knome> slickymaster, not at all
<slickymaster> can you please merge https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/199577 and update the tracker?
<slickymaster> to see if it finally gets fixed
<knome> sure
<slickymaster> you're a gentleman
<knome> done
<slickymaster>  thanks knome 
 * slickymaster bows
<knome> np
<sergiobenrocha2> i can't reproduce Bug #1259662 - Menus include settings applications
<ubottu> bug 1259662 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Menus include settings applications" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259662
<Unit193> It's because you're in the right session, if you are in the Xfce session you get that.
<sergiobenrocha2> yes, i'm in xubuntu session
<sergiobenrocha2> so, can i change the bug description?
<Unit193> It's not a valid bug, 
<knome> marked as invalid
<brainwash> lool, now I understand this "bug"
<Unit193> Would be "fixed" with the merge. :P
<sergiobenrocha2> there is a problem to change between xfce and xubuntu session
<sergiobenrocha2> if my first choose is xubuntu, then if i logout and login in xfce, there is no change. And xfce --> xubuntu is the same
<sergiobenrocha2> *choice
<sergiobenrocha2> wait, there are only 3 apps in System menu, Task Manager, Gigolo and other. I changed to Xfce session, and then there are many entries in System menu. But I shutdown and reboot, and then login to xubuntu session, and now there are many entries in System. How can it is possible, if choose "Discard on shutdown" files and settings in Usb-creator?
<Unit193> Used to be that going to Xfce from Xubuntu would work, but not to Xubuntu from Xfce.  Remove .config/xfce4 and all should switch well.
<sergiobenrocha2> the choice between xfce and xubuntu is inconsistent, someone noticed?
<sergiobenrocha2> 3 times i choose xubuntu, i'm sure, and it goes to xfce
<sergiobenrocha2> i can see the difference in menu. Sometimes "Xubuntu Website" and "Contribute to Xubuntu is missing", even if i enter in xubuntu session
<sergiobenrocha2> i could reproduce this now, but it is random
<brainwash> delete your session cache
<sergiobenrocha2> i'm trying in VM.
<sergiobenrocha2> so, when it shutdow, it erase session cacha, right?
<sergiobenrocha2> *cache
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-19
<sergiobenrocha2> hum, if i choose Xubuntu, and then type any thing in username, then it changes to xfce, you can see if you try to choose again between xubuntu and xfce
<sergiobenrocha2> i think it change every time window login "thinks" i'm changing the user...
<sergiobenrocha2> i think it is a bit confusing... even when this login bug will be fixed, if an user logout, he probabily will find this issue.
<sergiobenrocha2> this lightdm is very inconsistent...
<bluesabre> ochosi: if I set my panel background to this image, only the indicators have transparency (transparent png) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2536196/panelbg.png
<bluesabre> and other than that, alpha doesn't work at all with the panel
<Unit193> Mhmm, known "issue" 'tis why I went back to gtk2 full.
<bluesabre> yeah, I knew the second part was knowm
<bluesabre> known too
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i'm aware that in fact the current workaround doesn't really work
<ochosi> a fix is being worked on though
<elfy> knome: there's a started A1 blog entry with the bugs etc and some comments 
<elfy> knome: won't be able to do more to it - working till 5ish tonight
<ochosi> elfy: what is the status quo of A1, does it run so far?
<elfy> it runs - but you have to make sure to set xubuntu as session, check the languages and use xubuntu as a username to boot it
<ochosi> right, so the proposed fixes for that haven't been merged yet?
<elfy> nope
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160184172/Screenshot%20-%20191213%20-%2007%3A41%3A49.png#
<elfy> too
<elfy> bit messy - but it could be worse
<elfy> you can boot it :) but don't try an do an autoresize install or you'll be in deep - no way to set the partition sizes ;)
<Unit193> Still takes full width too.
<elfy> Unit193: I'd never try and force people to use the -dev release, I just don't understand why at least those in -team aren't at least using it sometime and reporting things
<ochosi> but that's a ubiquity problem, right?
<elfy> Unit193: yea - but that's not too much of an issue you can move things about
<elfy> ochosi: yep
<ochosi> and the menu thing?
<elfy> got to go now - work 
<ochosi> ok, ttyl
<elfy> that I assume is tied up with the session things 
<elfy> if it's not then it's a seperate bug
<ochosi> well
<ochosi> you can easily test that
<ochosi> just set the menu file by hand
<Unit193> elfy: I have a VM I use for testing/breaking/doing a little bit of packaging.
<ochosi> right-click the appmenu-button -> set menu-file to /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<ochosi> if that fixes it, then it's probably the session
<elfy> Unit193: I do as well - main machine is a daily updated trusty from shortly after saucy went live 
<elfy> test in vm's the dailies - or an old lappy for 32bit
<elfy> cya 
<ochosi> k, cya
<Unit193> Chau.
<ochosi> intresting spelling :)
<ochosi> Unit193: didn't you propose the patch for fixing the login?
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> did micahg already agree to merging it?
<ochosi> or have you not "bothered" him with it :)
<Unit193> I did twice.
<ochosi> so no response?
<Unit193> Think he wanted a way to clean the old config, I don't think that's going to happen.
<ochosi> for what, upgrades?
<Unit193> Yes.
<ochosi> but that's somewhat irrelevant at this stage, no?
<ochosi> i mean the main issue should be to get our dailies easily testable again
<ochosi> deprecated config-files often happen due to upgrades, me thinks
<Unit193> There are ways to fix that normally, but the "standard" was to use a tool that'd edit a config file as it's not Proper to touch them otherwise, that tool is now gone.
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> hey andrzejr 
<andrzejr> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> andrzejr: i just wanted to let you know that i talked to eric about the gtk3 indicators bg problem and he's looking into it
<andrzejr> good, thanks
<ochosi> he has made some progress on it even
<ochosi> which is especially nice as i've heard from some of our testers that the current workaround is breaking with some graphics cards/drivers
<ochosi> oddly enough the bg of the indicators gets transparent with e.g. nouveau drivers after some time
<ochosi> seems to be a race condition or something
<andrzejr> interesting... there should nothing timing dependent
<andrzejr> this is definitely a deeper issue - something about the way the panel handles transparency
<ochosi> yeah, entirely possible
<ali1234> ochosi: i have seen it on nvidia
<ochosi> :(
<ochosi> ok, well then at least we know now that the current workaround isn't really working around it
<ali1234> if you set the main panel backgound to "image" then the indicator plugin background goes transparent (you can see the wallpaper)
<ali1234> i am probably not using the newest code
<ochosi> i wonder if that's a gtk3.10 issue
<ali1234> this is on saucy
<ali1234> actually that's wrong
<ochosi> odd, for me that works
<ali1234> if you set the main panel background to image, the image only shows under the indicator plugin, and nowhere else
<ochosi> bg-image is one of the few things where only the gtk3 indicators get a bg and the rest remains the same
<ochosi> yup
<andrzejr> ali1234, just tried that - no problem here (other than indicator background has its own bg colour)
<andrzejr> I get a bg image everywhere except for the indicator plugin
<ali1234> so that's the extact reverse to what i get
<ochosi> very strange that
<ochosi> i really hope that whatever eric is working on (looked quite promising on the screenshot) works for all drivers
<andrzejr> BTW, I have fixed some layout problems in the indicator plugin. I found them after moving to 13.10. Interestingly no one complained about them and I haven't spotted them when testing on a vbox installation.
<ochosi> yeah, i saw your commits yesterday
<ali1234> "check if labels are visible" sounds like something i saw where you can sometimes get empty areas
<andrzejr> ali1234, I've seen that with power indicator labels (if you switch them on&off) in deskbar mode.
<andrzejr> would also affect multi-row panels.
<slickymaster> morning all
<slickymaster> elfy, ochosi, right-clicking the appmenu-button and setting the menu-file to /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu does fix it
<slickymaster> so it's probably a session issue
<slickymaster> Unit193: ^^^
<Unit193> I didn't do it! :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: Is that a question or a statement?  Lack of question marks and how it is phrased indicates a statement.
<Unit193> Also, meeting later today.
<bluesabre> ochosi: darn, I was hoping that maybe I provided some useful debug info
<slickymaster> Unit193: neither, it was an assumption
<Unit193> In that case, I can tell you that you are correct.
<slickymaster> or a supposition :P 
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, no worries ;)
 * ochosi won't be able to make the meeting tonight
<ochosi> i'll be on the train, so...
<slickymaster> since you're mentioning it Unit193, the meeting is at 19:00 UTC, isn it?
<slickymaster> isn't ^^
<Unit193> 14:00 EST.
<slickymaster> Unit193: you wouldn't give a straight answer, would you? :P
<Unit193> date -ud "14:00 EST"  says you're right.  (I know local time, GCal shows local time too. :P )
<Unit193> Thu Dec 19 19:00:00 UTC 2013
<slickymaster> LOL
<bluesabre> so, gtk3.10 is in 14.04
<bluesabre> but I noticed that ImageMenuItems still exist
<bluesabre> is ubuntu shipping patches?
<bluesabre> or is the code not actually removed for that until a later release
<ochosi> good question
<Unit193> debian/patches/git-gtkmodelmenuitem-icon-support.patch
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/gtk+3.0/+changelog
<ochosi> hah, nice
<Unit193> That patch was removed, so it seems..?
<ochosi> oh
<brainwash> bug 1222021
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<brainwash> more test results please
<brainwash> it's one of the major issues in saucy/trusty
<elfy> ochosi: you can rest safe now - xchat has gone 1990s with nvidia as well ...
<elfy> brainwash: I commented on bug 1222021
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<brainwash> elfy: just saw it :D
<elfy> you'd have seen me test it as well probably ;)
<brainwash> I was about to tell you to write a comment and add your test results
<elfy> not checked it with a brand new install though
<elfy> so consequently not able to add it to the release notes for A1
<brainwash> now that we got a patched version we need to actually test it
<brainwash> as known issue?
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> I assume it is an issue, but it wasn't reported
<brainwash> we know that bugs usually don't disappear magically
<ochosi> elfy: thanks for the double-ping :)
<elfy> thought you'd need to know :p
<brainwash> ochosi: did you already test the patched version of xfce4-power-manager?
<brainwash> we need feedback and test results =S
<elfy> added it to the release notes
<brainwash> so it can be also backported to saucy
<elfy> brainwash: well - is it fixed? because it doesn't look like it to me ;)
<brainwash> but for me it is
<brainwash> cannot test lid events though
<ochosi> the lid events aren't prevented it seems
<brainwash> but assume they work now too
<ochosi> my system just went to sleep
<brainwash> did you relog or restart power manager?
<elfy> mark it is as fixed then - I'll just create a new bug for it
<brainwash> 1 positive result is not enough
<brainwash> currently we got like 2 negatives ones
<elfy> I did ask jackson if he wanted a call for it - but he said no
<ochosi> brainwash: i installed the PPA already a few days ago
<brainwash> bummer
<elfy> I've given up asking for anything now
<brainwash> did you also test the power button event?
<elfy> back later
<ochosi> brainwash: i can't right now, i'm in the middle of something...
<knome> ochosi, tmi
<knome> :P
<brainwash> ok, too risky then
<ochosi> since the lid isn't prevented, i'm too pessimistic about the power button to try *now*
<brainwash> you told power manager to do nothing on this event?
<brainwash> redundant questions inc
<ochosi> ofc
<ochosi> brainwash: lid-switch isn't inhibited it seems, but the power-button
<ochosi> oh, i was wrong, seems the lid switch works too now
<brainwash> now? random?
<ochosi> i dunno, i'll reboot and try again
<brainwash> it should work every time
<ochosi> oh really?
<ochosi> i thought it's ok if it works like 50% of the time...
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> ok, it works now
<ochosi> i presume that the time-frame between changing the settings and trying the lid was too short
<ochosi> (i mean before, when it didn't work)
<ochosi> i had to edit logind.conf too
<ochosi> but now it consistently works
<brainwash> great
<brainwash> so elfy is doing it wrong :)
<brainwash> it's 2x works vs. 1x does not work
<ochosi> maybe he should check his logind.conf
<ochosi> although theoretically that shouldn't matter i guess
<ochosi> since it should be overrided anyway
<slickymaster> ochosi: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:usage is finished and ready for your review
<slickymaster> ping if you feel that changes need to be done, ochosi
<slickymaster> bbl
<pleia2> elfy: *hangs head in shame* I didn't do ISO tests this alpha, I'm sorry
<elfy> pleia2: lol 
<elfy> I Was behind myself 
<pleia2> do we have release notes? lmk if I should pitch in somewhere
<elfy> knome: we going to say mark as ready - and start building dailies again - I've got mail from Kate Stewart prodding me
<elfy> pleia2: I've started the draft at xubuntu.org
<elfy> not much else I can say without getting unduly cynical and depressed about the whole thing
<pleia2> elfy: hugs
<pleia2> elfy: mind if I clean this up a bit? (knome will have a seizure if he sees all these divs)
<elfy> do what you want pleia2 
<pleia2> ok, thanks
<elfy> while you're there you can delete the one that's just been sat there doing and going nowhere
<pleia2> sure
<elfy> ta
<pleia2> elfy: "To boot successfully to a Xubuntu Desktop" you're talking about the LiveCD, right? (gathering cues from context)
<elfy> yea - sorry - whole thing is about the images
<elfy> I'd been up 10 minutes when I did that ... 
<pleia2> that's why I'm here :)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> just got up?
<pleia2> well, following CC meeting
<elfy> aah yes - wrong time/wrong week for me for that
<pleia2> elfy: do we have a list of testers?
<elfy> we have the list of people on -testers
<pleia2> you mentioned 7 people tested it
<elfy> oh - the ones that actually did it 
<pleia2> yeah :)
<elfy> no - but it won't take long for me to get one
<pleia2> if it's not too much trouble, might be worthwhile listing them in the blog post for encouragement
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> couple of minutes
<elfy> pleia2: where you want the list?
<pleia2> elfy: PM is fine
<elfy> ok 
<slickymaster> knome, elfy, is any of you around?
<elfy> sort of - only been in 30 minutes or so 
<elfy> and the meeting is due to start soon as well
<slickymaster> yeah, I know
<elfy> so - is it a quick one :)
<slickymaster> but before that, can you please merge https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/199703 and update the tracker as well?
<elfy> no - I really need to get my head together a bit and be able to sit without a bunch of pains
<slickymaster> oh sorry to ear that you're still doing not so well
<slickymaster> are you still on medication elfy?
<elfy> I'll look at it a bit later though :)
<elfy> yep
<elfy> slickymaster: you know when you mark it for review - you can put someone's name in there? 
<slickymaster> it's a shame if  you won't get better before christmas
<elfy> I won't - but it's better than it was :)
<slickymaster> yeah, I know, but I always felt that it wouldn't be sorte of "correct"
<elfy> back shortly 
<slickymaster> sort
<pleia2> haz meeting?
<elfy> slickymaster: no - that's fine - name me on them 
<elfy> pleia2: no-one else around?
<slickymaster> ElderDryas, will do
<elfy> back very shortly
<slickymaster> ups, sorry ElderDryas, that was meant for elfy 
<pleia2> knome said he would be :)
<pleia2> knome knome knome 
<elfy> slickymaster: LOL
 * slickymaster curses auto completion
<drc> better slickymaster ? :)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<slickymaster> LOL
<slickymaster> much better drc 
 * slickymaster bows
<slickymaster> tks
<drc> especially with a meeting coming up.
<pleia2> well, we should start
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec 19 19:04:49 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> #chair elfy knome 
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome pleia2
<pleia2> elfy: I think there is some work to do here if you're able: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/Alpha1/Xubuntu
<elfy> where did that page come from ?
<pleia2> it's what is linked on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/Alpha1
<pleia2> we could just change and link to our blog post if we don't want to use it though
<pleia2> anyway, who all is here for the meeting? :)
<elfy> I'll not have time to look at that today 
<jjfrv8> o/
<slickymaster> o/
<elfy> I am - though likely to have to escape in 10 for a short while
<Noskcaj> o/
<pleia2> #topic Items carried on
<sergiobenrocha2> o/
<pleia2> ali1234, elfy, knome, ochosi, skellat - any updates from your actions last meeting? 
 * pleia2 digging up link
<ali1234> nothing new here
<elfy> #info Waiting for updates from bluesabre re menulibre
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2013-01-10#Action_items.2C_by_person
<pleia2> wrong link
<pleia2> that was just a flashback :)
<elfy> lol
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2013-12-12#Action_items.2C_by_person
<elfy> no other updates from me
<pleia2> ok, I'll readd all these since everyone is asleeping
<pleia2> #action skellat and ali1234 to look at the SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat and ali1234 to look at the SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
<elfy> yep 
<pleia2> #action elfy to chase bluesabre re menulibre
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to chase bluesabre re menulibre
<pleia2> #action elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at
<elfy> no lol
<pleia2> haha
<ali1234> well the SRU paperwork is filed, i'm just waiting for something to happen now
<elfy> I'm waiting for bluesabre now :)
<pleia2> tsk
<pleia2> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x16d9490>
<pleia2> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x163b990>
<elfy> sorry :)
<pleia2> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x17ca690>
<pleia2> alright, let's try this again
<pleia2> #action ali1234 to keep an eye on SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 to keep an eye on SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
<pleia2> elfy: what's bluesabre's item here?
<pleia2> #action elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at
<pleia2> #action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back
<elfy> #action Team members wanting things tested need to ensure a mail get's sent to the -dev list
<meetingology> ACTION: Team members wanting things tested need to ensure a mail get's sent to the -dev list
<pleia2> #topic Team Updates
<elfy> not just random pings in here please - thanks 
<pleia2> anyone have updates?
<jjfrv8> none from me this week
<elfy> <pleia2> we could just change and link to our blog post if we don't want to use it though - that might be the best short term plan for that
<Noskcaj> #info Noskcaj needs testimonials for MOTU and Xubuntu Packageset. Please add one at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#Testimonials
<Noskcaj> #info lderan has got basic autopilot tests working, an example one can be found at http://paste.ubuntu.com/6597150/
<pleia2> elfy: ok, thanks
<elfy> QA update is more or less the release notes - wherever they are
<slickymaster> #info slickymaster has been doing same packages testing and I've noticed that a few of them needed to be re-written, which I've done. So if someone comes across a a test that it's not accurate please ping me and I'll correct it
<elfy> there was a poor turnout on testing imo
<pleia2> #info Poor turnout for A1 testing
<elfy> sorry - bad as ochosi this week ... 
<pleia2> #info QA and Marketing wrote Alpha1 announcement to go out once the image is set free
<elfy> #info waiting for agreement to release image with knome 
<slickymaster> i think that there was an increased in the number of tests done
<slickymaster> *increase
<pleia2> ok, any more updates?
<elfy> brb
<pleia2> #topic Announcements
<pleia2> #info Alpha1 is today!
<pleia2> that's all I've got
<pleia2> #info Happy Holidays
<elfy> back
<elfy> pleia2: what about the Lionel replacement issue 
<pleia2> I don't know anything about that
<elfy> could of sworn knome was going to talk to everyone
<Unit193> From last meeting.
<elfy> yea
<pleia2> well, does anyone else have comments about it? :)
<elfy> none -= not qualified to have any sensible comments at present :)
<pleia2> hehe
<Noskcaj> I think it's micah temporarily get the position just because he has upload rights. We need to actually vote someone in though
<elfy> #action knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> any other announcements?
<elfy> pleia2: seems like not much else to meet about
<pleia2> #topic New ang emerging items
<pleia2> sweet, I copied the typo from the last meeting
<pleia2> I am really good at this meting thing
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<pleia2> maybe thursday after new years?
<pleia2> Jan 2nd
<jjfrv8> +1
<elfy> works for me - will be back on the treadmill
<pleia2> same bat time?
<elfy> yep 
<pleia2> #decided Next meeting on Thursday, January 2nd at 19:00 UTC
<pleia2> #agree Next meeting on Thursday, January 2nd at 19:00 UTC
<pleia2> well whatever :)
<pleia2> ok, thanks all!
<pleia2> happy Alpha 1 day
<jjfrv8> thanks, pleia2 
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec 19 19:29:36 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-19-19.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-19-19.04.html
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2 
<elfy> thanks pleia2 et al
<Unit193> pleia2: Heh, you did better than I, thanks.
<elfy> back later 
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs is finished
<Unit193> Next meeting: http://goo.gl/OgPOjl
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, correction http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:usage is finished
<slickymaster> so if you want you can start to work on the Multimonitor section
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, saw that. thanks. I've got two new saucy images installed on my test machine but have not gotten the second monitor hooked up yet
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, yeah the number of monitors was my issue :)
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, anyway we'll have to wait on ochosi review, now
<jjfrv8> don't even know if my little Dell will do it, but I think so
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, it just a matter of trying ;)
<slickymaster> bbl
<knome> yep, sorry
<knome> pleia2, elfy: is the alpha announcement ready? are the images marked ready?
<knome> brb
<pleia2> knome: elfy wanted an ack from you to set the images read
<pleia2> knome: release announcement is ready in wordpress if you want to look
<elfy> knome: marked ready 
<elfy> mailed Kate to tell her
<elfy> knome: can you deal with slangasek in -release re the mail you forwarded - I've gtg now
<elfy> "Flavor team leads,  please let slangasek know on #ubuntu-release when you've got an image you're happy with and want the daily builds turned off. "
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, as I was looking over your Usage section, I noticed a feature I wasn't aware of that causes a mismatch with the second screenshot
<jjfrv8> I put a <note> in to explain what I'm talking about. It's in the first "Background" section.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, ^^
<Noskcaj> One #info i forgot for the meeting. We should be able to re-add a pidgin twitter plugin next month
<sergio-br2> hey guys, i'm trying to install xubuntu here, but ubiquity crashes, and apport did one profile of the bug, but it didn't open firefox... 
<sergio-br2> so, where can i found the bug report that it did?
<Unit193> Should be in /var/crash/
<sergio-br2> hum, ok, thanks
<Unit193> micahg: http://paste.openstack.org/show/55563 list of things different from saucy with (most) dupes (libmng1 -> libmng2) removed.  I'd hope we can at least remove libedataserver perhaps?
<Unit193> indicator-sound brings in something dumb as well.
<Unit193> Recommends: gnome-control-center | ubuntu-system-settings
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/55564 list of unity or gnome packages, some we do want.
<cell> hi 
<cell> how did the meeting go?
<cell> is anyone here
<Unit193> Short and well.
<cell> ah, short. well, i guess I missed out? 
<cell> Is 14.04 going to have the 3.12 linux kernel?
<Unit193> Yes.
<Unit193> !info linux-generic trusty
<ubottu> linux-generic (source: linux-meta): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 3.12.0.7.9 (trusty), package size 1 kB, installed size 33 kB
<cell> awesome. 3.12 is supposed to be much faster with AMD/ATI video 
<cell> Also, is Xubuntu doing anything on the MIR/Wayland front or is that being put off until next version
<cell> i'm glad someone is still here to chat
<Unit193> Not this release, though you can play with the one since it's in repo.
<brainwash> I should give xmir another chance, it has been a while since I've tested it the last time
<Unit193> Hah, just spun up ISOs. :P
<cell> so xubuntu i guess is going to go Xmir, rather than develop wayland for xfce like some sources in the media said
<Unit193> Media is all crap, and that's also not a given either.
<sergio-br2> what's the position about mir and wayland in xubuntu?
<cell> i think maybe they don't know and are waiting to see just like Linux Mint
<knome> xubuntu won't "develop" either X, Xmir or Wayland really
<brainwash> we are just waiting for the Xfce developers to do some magic
<brainwash> wayland magic
<sergio-br2> haha
<sergio-br2> so, it seems that only unity will use mir...
<brainwash> is that bad?
<sergio-br2> don't know
<cell> that is what it seems like to me too, but i think everyone is waiting for the dust to settle 
<sergio-br2> for canonical yes...
<brainwash> it's canoncial's idea after all
<sergio-br2> yeah
<brainwash> no one wants upstarts too
<pleia2> published the blog post so it stops 404ing in the annoucement
<brainwash> upstart
<brainwash> can you call lightdm a product made by canoncial?
<knome> pleia2, i was doing that
<pleia2> knome: doh
<knome> pleia2, there was one broken link and then i beautified the link titles
<knome> but it's fine now!
<pleia2> knome: haha, ok
<cell> i was wondering whether volunteering for xubuntu can be a stepping stone to a job or whether it is more of a philanthropic and humanitarian pursuit
<knome> cell, can definitely help you get a job
<knome> cell, but how much depends on how much/what you are working on; the team can't guarantee anything...
<Unit193> brainwash: Redhad used/uses it, but moving to systemd of course.
<knome> Unit193, what's redhad?
<Unit193> -d+t
<brainwash> they dropped upstart
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<cell> what does it mean when someone's text is red? Is that for emphasis or does it imply a whisper?
<brainwash> so we aren't doing any Xmir testing to keep track of the development progress?
<knome> cell, just means they've written your nick in the message, like this
<Unit193> brainwash: I'll check it live again if it actually shows up.
<sergio-br2> Chrome OS uses upstart yet?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-20
<cell> I don't know
<cell> Is there a reason that Xubuntu represents a better choice for a volunteer than another open-source project such as Wikipedia or Kde, just to name two alternatives? 
<knome> cell, better is subjective. if working with xubuntu scratches your itch, then it's the ideal/best choice for you
<cell> i do not know anyone who uses xubuntu or for that matter linux besides myself and people i have corresponded with on the internet.
<knome> i didn't know anybody using xubuntu when i started contributing either
<pleia2> reminds me, they use it for testing at mozilla, see: http://benjaminkerensa.com/2013/10/14/mozilla-summit-2013-santa-clara bkerensa said he'd put me in touch with the guy doing it
<pleia2> "It was also really cool to see some automated battery life testing for Firefox OS being doing on Xubuntu the XFCE Community-Driven Flavor of Ubuntu."
<knome> cool :)
<pleia2> most of my work team uses it too, then they nag me "hey pleia2, you work on xubuntu, can you..."
<knome> lol
<knome> you can direct them to me
<knome> and i can grumble for them
<pleia2> one of my colleagues uses a different window manager, wanted us to make it easier :)
<knome> how does that make anything easier? ;)
<pleia2> er, make out switching out the WM easier
<pleia2> -out
<knome> heh, okay...
<pleia2> I think he did something crazy like symlink the xfwm binary to the one he wanted
<knome> >__<
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> i guess if that works for them..
<Unit193> Can't you just change xfce4-session?
<Unit193> xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml:        <value type="string" value="xfwm4"/>
<Unit193> xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml-        <value type="string" value="--replace"/>
<cell> i like xubuntu. lately, the software manager has been crashing though.
<pleia2> Unit193: the obvious solutions weren't working well, I don't remember the specifics
<pleia2> I can't find that wiki page where we were putting interview ideas for our site
 * pleia2 fails at wiki
<knome> pleia2, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/XubuntuAt
<pleia2> knome: yep, saw that and totally didn't read it, thanks
<Unit193> Great, now I'm trying it. >_<
<pleia2> he uses xmonad
<cell> one thing i'm grateful to xubuntu for is encouraging me to explore and use Xchat. there are a lot of channels out here. I used to play Wesnoth, but now I think I'd rather chat
<Unit193> pleia2: Yeah, I just switched to openbox, was pretty easy.  Just edited /etc/xdg/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml and /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml, but don't think you need to edit both.
<pleia2> Unit193: try xmonad?
<pleia2> maybe it was something specific to the wm
<Unit193> Your fault if I can't figure out how to get out of it, sure. ;)
<Unit193> Erm, maybe in a VM.
<Unit193> Holy crap, what did I do to my desktop?!
<Unit193> He uses this by default?
<Unit193> I'm so confused, but it works fine, pleia2 .
<knome> :)
<pleia2> haha
<Unit193> Note Note to self, pleia2 has bad ideas. :P
<Unit193> (Kidding!)
<pleia2> Unit193: I have passed along your suggestion!
<pleia2> < clarkb> pleia2: neat, that seems better than my hack
<knome> why is he hiding!
<pleia2> not hiding, just working :)
<knome> pleia2, that leaves us the question... what are *you* doing?
<pleia2> waiting for my code to compile?
<Unit193> pleia2: Heh, sure.  Works fine here (well, as much as an unconfigured xmonad does.)
<knome> a question mark? you are unsure?
<pleia2> knome: no one compiles code anymore, but the joke remains
<knome> pleia2, no?
<knome> :)
<pleia2> we all write in python!
<Unit193> Do we get to ask him how he uses xmonad? :P
<pleia2> you know sysadmins, their brains work weird
<knome> a screenshot at least...
<pleia2> hah, I'll see what I can do
<Unit193> pleia2: If he doesn't use xfce4-session, another method is used.
<knome> you? wouldn't it be easier to ask him to take the screenshot than try to sneak one? :P
<Unit193> But sure, glad to help
<pleia2> Unit193: ah, thanks, that may be the case
<pleia2> knome: we are actually working, need to stop distracting with random things :)
<knome> go away then :P
<pleia2> hahah
<knome> (and let me go to sleep)
<pleia2> go to sleep!
<knome> (i can't go since i need to distract you as long as you get distracted)
<Unit193> If he's not using xfce4-session, then /etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc is the file to look at.
<Unit193> line 144/199
<Unit193> # this is only necessary when running w/o xfce4-session
<Unit193> xsetroot -solid black -cursor_name watch
<Unit193> Weird...
<brainwash> wouldn't an autostart entry do the trick?
<Unit193> xfce4-session/xfsm-fadeout.c:          gdk_window_set_background (window, &black);  so, does that mean xfce4-session sets the color too?
<Unit193> ali1234: Heh, I get the seemless login if I chmod -x xfce4-session and xsetroot. :D
<Unit193> So the black isn't actually the video card at least.
<brainwash> xfsm-fadeout.c?
<brainwash> it's that something different?
<brainwash> like when you open the shutdown dialog
<Unit193> I just did a quick grep because of the comment, that may not be the right src file at all, but something in there seems to be doing it.
<brainwash> I did not notice any black screen so far
<brainwash> after login
<brainwash> I just wish that we can push all the changes and start testing/enjoying them
<Unit193> All you need is two ppas to try it, in theory.
<sergio-br2> when i use 2 keyboard (portuguese and english, for example), there is no icon to change between them, in xfce panel?
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, Isn't that what the xkb plugin is meant to do?
<sergio-br2> i don't know... i mean something like in ubuntu unity
<sergio-br2> i included other language key, but there is no icon in panel. I have to Add this manually?
<Noskcaj> install xfce4-xkb-plugin, then add it to the panel
<Noskcaj> We probably need to advertise that xubuntu can do that better. Maybe even a "dual-languages" installer option
<sergio-br2> humm, it's already installed
<sergio-br2> so, it couldn't be automatic to add an xkb-plugin in top panel?
<sergio-br2> ohh yeah, now i understood, it can do that better even
<sergio-br2> hey, it has the country flag :D
<bluesabre> elfy, forestpiskie: what details are you wanting on menulibre?
<zero6688> hi, anyone knows the default user name and password for xubuntu 14.04 a1
<zero6688> when i run it via live cd, it asks me the username and password, but no one mentions it
<Unit193> Select the Xubuntu session too, and English language from the top right options, username is xubuntu and password is blank.
<zero6688> thanks
<zero6688> :)
<sergio-br2> see this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1261660/comments/4
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1261660 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "User session fails to accept settings" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<sergio-br2> if you forget this, you will enter in xfce session, instead of xubuntu session
<zero6688> looks nice than 12.04 ;)
<sergio-br2> Unity193, where can i track one bug from lightdm-gtk-greeter?
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, do you know?
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, do you just mean subscribe to it?
<sergio-br2> i mean put it in iso.qa
<sergio-br2> or packages.qa
<sergio-br2> there is no test case for lightdm in xubuntu
<zero6688> actually i found that after type the username, i clicked "Enter", but it doesn't work, i need to press the "Login" button.
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, Maybe in a iso install test
<Noskcaj> or write a test for it
<sergio-br2> zero6688, try to Tab to password, and press Enter.
<zero6688> ok
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, lubuntu have a lightdm testcase. I'll get someone to try and copy it to xubuntu
<sergio-br2> ok
<zero6688> i found the chinese translation is much better than previous versions
<sergio-br2> because i didn't know how to do it :)
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, For the gthumb website bug, can you contact upstream gthumb about it?
<Noskcaj> or make a patch, which should be super easy
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, i have to learn how to do that
<Noskcaj> It's not enough reason to fail the test though
<sergio-br2> or to do an patch
<Noskcaj> to make a patch for this, just find what file the website link is in and change it.
<sergio-br2> hum, ok, i will see that
<sergio-br2> maybe more easy mainstream?
<Noskcaj> http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/patches-to-packages.html should have the full instructions
<sergio-br2> it's good for me
<sergio-br2> thanks
<Noskcaj> When you get a patch made up, i'll have it into debian, ubuntu, and upstream within the week
<Noskcaj> I've just contacted upstream about it, and i am the debian maintainer
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, do you know any programming languages?
<sergio-br2> yeah, a little, like C, java, matlab (gnu octave and scilab)
<sergio-br2> bash, a little too
<sergio-br2> and i want to learn python and C++
<Noskcaj> You're far better than i am then. Please patch whatever you can
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, Next time you test gthumb, would you mind trying to confirm bug 1240169? if it's still there, upstream will fix it
<ubottu> bug 1240169 in gthumb (Ubuntu) "Find Duplicates does not use start directory from dialog" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240169
<sergio-br2> haha, ok, but i have to learn this patch thing
<sergio-br2> haha
<sergio-br2> interesting
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> My simple guide to patching: 1. Do changes. 2. Run "dpkg-source --commit" 3. check header of patch. 4. "quilt push && quilt refresh && quilt pop" 5. commit and upload
<Noskcaj> (if it's in a bzr branch)
<sergio-br2> :D
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> the source is in gthum-dev?
<sergio-br2> i think yes
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, bzr branch lp:ubuntu/gthumb
<Noskcaj> -dev adds headers for other packages building
<Noskcaj> Does anyone think we should SRU gthumb? bug 1261589
<ubottu> bug 1261589 in gthumb (Ubuntu) "please update gthumb with last version in Ubuntu 13.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261589
<sergio-br2> i saw it, but i think it's invalid to trusty, non?
<Noskcaj> yep
<sergio-br2> the trusty version is update
<Noskcaj> I don't know how to nominate for a distroseries, so leave it for the time being
<Noskcaj> lderan, FYI, gthumb is probably able to introspect properly
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, i do dpkg-source --commit in ~/gthumb/
<sergio-br2> but but: error: no upstream tarball
<sergio-br2> i found the file to change, it is gthumb/gthumb/gth-browser-actions-callbacks.c
<Unit193> sergio-br2: If you did apt-get source, use dpkg-source commit, if you did a bzr branch, use bzr diff.
<sergio-br2> ok thanks
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, i will see later it, take a rest zZzzZ
<sergio-br2> Unity193, Noskcaj, thanks, bye
<Unit193> Unit != unity
<Unit193> Sure.
<elfy> bluesabre: I just need to have some idea of where menulibre is at the moment - when it's ready enought so we can use to get a testcase ready, then let me know via m/l you want it testing 
<elfy> just more than - the vagueness I manage to pick up in here from backlogs
<Unit193> cyberrufus: Howdy.
<slickymaster> morning all
<bluesabre> elfy, I'll let you know via the M/L when its ready
<bluesabre> that's why I sent that email out last week :)
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks :)
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, could you see if my patch is correct? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gthumb/+bug/1262861
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1262861 in gthumb (Ubuntu) "Website link in About gThumb is wrong" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ElderDryas> Quick question re: 14.04A1 iso...by my count it takes 7 clicks/pages (from the xubuntu home page) to get to where one can actually download the iso.  Am I just being my normal, early (for me) morning, no tea yet, self and can't see the obvious link?
<ElderDryas> Or, as I just thought of, is this a commitment test? :)
<slickymaster> ElderDryas: you're about right, 7 is the exact number to get it ;)
<slickymaster> ElderDryas: see it this way: 7 is the number of the natural world. There are 7 days in the week, 7 notes on the musical scale and 7 directions (left, right, up, down, forward, back and center) ;)
<ElderDryas> ah, I thought you were trying to go Monty Python one better.
<slickymaster> LOL
<ElderDryas> people must be hammering the canonical servers this morning, the DL is really slow.
<eric_the_idiot_> jjfrv8, the Wallpaper for Workspace X display in xfdesktop has more possible options when doing multi-monitor setups.  Git master also adds an infobar to the mix. The code starts at: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/tree/settings/main.c#n678
<sergio-br2> it seems that xfce session has broken configs...
<jjfrv8> eric_the_idiot_, thanks for the tip. I had gotten some screenshots of the "Wallpaper for %s" but not the infobar.
<sergio-br2> some configuration is reset, like font hint. 
<jjfrv8> I'll get set up again and try to capture the infobar.
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, you still around?
<andrzejr> guys, how in correctly configured xubuntu does xfconfd start?
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: yes
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, I'll be back later after dinner (21:00 UTC)
<amerigena> a couple questions, if people don't mind me asking?
<holstein> amerigena: support question? those should ideally be in #xubuntu if xubuntu related
<amerigena> Nope, it has to do with testing Alpha 1.
<holstein> maybe #ubuntu+1 ?
<holstein> no one will likely care if you ask here
<jjfrv8> eric_the_idiot_, I see in the code what the infobar should say but I don't see it when I bring up the dialog
<jjfrv8> where should I look for it?
<jjfrv8> is it recent code that is not in the PPA maybe?
<eric_the_idiot_> Probably. I haven't done another xfdesktop release yet unless there are daily PPAs
<eric_the_idiot_> http://imgur.com/WYQTsxM
<jjfrv8> yeah, definitely not seeing that
<eric_the_idiot_> guess I need to do a dev release :)
<jjfrv8> okay, will ochosi let us know when and where to get it?
<eric_the_idiot_> yeah, I imagine it should make it into the 4.12 ppa
<jjfrv8> okay, thanks for the heads up. We definitely want to capture that for the docs.
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, or other that know that, theres is no icons for sound and keyboard panel gtk3 plugin?
<eric_the_idiot_> Indeed, thanks for helping to write the docs for it
<sergio-br2> and it's missing network too...
<sergio-br2> it's the normal behavior?
<jjfrv8> bbl
<amerigena> When the alpha of 14.04 is installed, is Xfwm4 4.11.0 the default or not?
<brainwash> sergio-br2: no icons or no indicators for sound/keyboard/..?
<brainwash> sound icon sometimes does not load, you can restart the indicator service until it does finally load the icon
<brainwash> if an indicator won't show up at all, take a look at the official wiki article
<brainwash> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
<brainwash> "Indicators may fail to load"
<sergio-br2> brainwash, ok
<MarcFalck> http://oi42.tinypic.com/etvbx4.jpg is this invisible tab a 14.04 issue?
<MarcFalck> also for some reason images are associated with firefox by default
<Noskcaj> Where's the original bug for bug 1263188 ?
<ubottu> bug 1263188 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "At first login, default session is xfce instead of xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1263188
<sergio-br2> hey guys, are there problem to attachment files in xubuntu mailing list?
<pleia2> sergio-br2: there is a size limit on what you can send, so it's best to give a link
<pleia2> unless it's a small file (a few kb)
<sergio-br2> ok
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, bug 1262861 got fixed at https://git.gnome.org/browse/gthumb/commit/?id=908c8b019432737df5ce048433984d3a1763d726
<ubottu> bug 1262861 in gthumb (Ubuntu) "Website link in About gThumb is wrong" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1262861
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, is it right?
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, the website part is done, upstream should fix the copyright thing soon. I'll upload the patch in my next debian upload
<brainwash> Noskcaj: power-manager-systemd seems to work fine, we got some positive test results (except from elfy :P)
<elfy> who'll get ignored - but doesn't care
<brainwash> are there still some packaging problems unsolved?
<elfy> these 'fixes' need really to be testes in vanilla installs so we can be sure 
<brainwash> it's trusty after all
<brainwash> we just push the package into the proposed
<elfy> anyway - have fun 
<elfy> cya
<brainwash> and let people test some more
<pleia2> amerigena: your mail to the -devel list was too big, was there an attachment or something? could you put it somewhere else and resend?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Adding the patch forces us to disable autoreconf
<brainwash> so we need to patch the debian package first?
<Noskcaj> If you put it in the xfce git, i assume it would break autogen.sh too
<brainwash> I assume adding patches should not be a problem, so the content of these systemd support patches is somehow causing trouble?
<sergio-br2> pleia2, i sent other message to mailing list, now with images in imageshack, sorry
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yeah
<Noskcaj> brainwash, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6607547/ is the error i get
<brainwash> error: HAVE_SYSTEMD does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
<brainwash> I see
<brainwash> sergio-br2: comment out the custom configuration for the right-click bottom area in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf and check if it disables right-click for you
<brainwash> xfce4-settings seems to do everything correct and synclient confirms the changes
<brainwash> so 50-synaptics.conf might be the cause
<sergio-br2> hum, found it
<brainwash> did anything change after you've edited the file?
<sergio-br2> no, i will reboot
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> you will need to restart X I guess
<sergio-br2> no, i reboot, change "Tap touchpad to click", and nothing
<sergio-br2> it continues to right click
<brainwash> strange
<brainwash> I cannot test it right now
<brainwash> so I will add a comment to the bug report later, if the change works for me
<sergio-br2> ok
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, for bug 1261173 , just file an identical bug in debian. Or join the debian filesystems team and help maintain it (see http://bugs.debian.org/723596 )
<ubottu> Debian bug 723596 in wnpp "RFA: f2fs-tools" [Normal,Open]
<ubottu> bug 1261173 in f2fs-tools (Ubuntu) "[upgrade-software-version] f2fs-tools 1.2.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261173
<Noskcaj> to report the debian bug, either use your email or "reportbug PACKAGE"
<sergio-br2> but reportbug will work in ubuntu?
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, is it a valid bug report, if i use reportbug in ubuntu?
<Noskcaj> it will be fine, but you'll have to tell report bug to pretend you're on debian. (it will tell you how)
<Noskcaj> Or just go via your email
<sergio-br2> f2fs is in canonicals plan support?
<sergio-br2> gparted supports f2fs, ubiquity no
<Noskcaj> ?
<xnox> sergio-br2: ubiquity doesn't use gparted for partitioning.
<sergio-br2> I mean, canonical is seeing Trim things to 14.04, but a File System...
<sergio-br2> yeah, i know it
<sergio-br2> ubiquity don't use even the same unity of gparted...
<sergio-br2> you use MiB in gparted, and ubiquity uses MB and GB... it's strange...
<xnox> sergio-br2: i believe ubiquity uses https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
<sergio-br2> there is no consistency in Live session, Ubiquity and Gparted do things different...
<sergio-br2> nops, ubiquity utilise MB.
<sergio-br2> and it is an issue for SSD or SD cards, because you can not align with Erase Block
<xnox> sergio-br2: correct, ubiquity uses base-10 units, for disk sizes.
<sergio-br2> or maybe I'm talking nonsense
<xnox> sergio-br2: it's not an issue for SSD nor SD cards, as parted actually does optimal alignment in ubiquity.
<sergio-br2> i don't know, but i think ubuntu is not ready for SSD...
<xnox> sergio-br2: you'll notice partition table gaps and offsets.
<xnox> sergio-br2: maybe you should investigate and make an informed opinion.
<xnox> sergio-br2: rather than making false claims.
<sergio-br2> xnox, but, if my SSD or card has 4 MiB of Erase block, and i do 100 MB partition in ubiquity, i think it will not align, dunno...
<sergio-br2> yeah, i'm not sure if i'm making false claims
<xnox> sergio-br2: first of all SSDs and SDCards do not report erase blocks to the kernel / userspace, one can find it out using experimental methods e.g. using flashbench package.
<sergio-br2> but for from the point of view of a user, there is inconsistency between gparted and ubiquity. At least in the partition values
<xnox> sergio-br2: and ubiquity aligns by default to a base-2 values, which can be a few, but on most typical installs ends up 2MiB i believe.
<xnox> thus although it's not the best, it's mostly an even multiple of 4MiB.
<xnox> ask gparted to use correct units.
<xnox> and gparted is not a user-facing tool, like ubiquity is.
<sergio-br2> but... what is the correct units?
<xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
<sergio-br2> yeah, i'm reading
<sergio-br2> but for me, MiB is the "normal" unity
<sergio-br2> but for Samsung or Kingston, it is MB...
<sergio-br2> because MB ">" MiB
<xnox> "unity - the state of being united or joined as a whole." or "unity - (mathematics) the number one."
<xnox> I think you mean "units"
<sergio-br2> yeah, units, sorry
<sergio-br2> english is not my strong
<xnox> sergio-br2: if I go to a store and buy a 16GB phone, and plug into my computer, i want to see 16GB phone, and partitions/data/filesystems/reserved space adding up to 16GB.
<xnox> sergio-br2: so disk-drives should use units as advertised (tm) ;-)
<xnox> sergio-br2: anything else, is confusing.
<sergio-br2> yeah, it makes sense
<xnox> sergio-br2: Mac OS X also uses base-10 units for disk space, and base-2 units for RAM. Just like ubuntu.
<xnox> sergio-br2: there are inconsistencies in units on Windows, where base-10 prefixes are used for base-2 values =/
<sergio-br2> and normaly, users thinks that it is less RAM :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-21
<sergio-br2> * it has
<sergio-br2> well, i'm not a developer... this things i told, it's a user perspective
<sergio-br2> *these
<sergio-br2> xnox, cdimage.ubuntu use MiB, but when you do the download, in thunar it uses MB... :D
<sergio-br2> 864 MiB --> 906 MB
<xnox> sergio-br2: i think there is an openbug against apache, that in the directory listing it does indeed use the wrong units.
<xnox> sergio-br2: unfortunately changing that, will break anything that is automatically parsing such generated listings =/
<sergio-br2> * thunar not, nautilus
<sergio-br2> does light-locker use xscreensaver-data?
<brainwash> sergio-br2: no
<sergio-br2> brainwash, so, there is no cool things to see in the screen? :)
<brainwash> uhm, you either see a black screen or the light dm greeter
<brainwash> pretty boring
<brainwash> screensavers are old school
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Still worth having
<brainwash> yeah, so I'm waiting for the new version of xscreensaver :)
<sergio-br2> this apport is being very efficient... it is not reporting crashes...
<brainwash> it's disabled I guess
<sergio-br2> canonical disable it in releases, not in alpha... or not?
<brainwash> it gets activated during the alpha/beta phase I think
<brainwash> so it might be still disabled
<brainwash> people in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-desktop might know
<sergio-br2> it's disable, i can see in /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
<sergio-br2> hey, there is no Guest Account in lightdm?
<elfy> ochosi: any mileage to be gained by me disabling the nvidia card and using the onboard to see if I get this 1990s issue with that?
<ali1234> elfy: can you do a bootchart?
<ali1234> i might reveal, if things are starting in the wrong order
<ali1234> it has an option to keep running for a time after login
<elfy> I can install that of course, though I'm not sure how it will help here
<elfy> aaah - that would be why you think it will help and I dopn't then :p
<ali1234> you have a missing settings daemon
<elfy> though this xchat issue could turn (and did with nvidia) turn up some hours after I've booted the machine
<ali1234> well if it is just xchat then i don't see how it can be video card related
<elfy> me neither now that I've seen it with nvidia as well - previously I'd not
<elfy> with nouveau it usually appears within 30 minutes 
<elfy> nvidia it was while I was at work - so at least 90minutes
<elfy> ali1234: did you see the error I got in startxfce log?
<ali1234> no
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/pP6bcJEK
<elfy> get that at more or less the same time 
<ali1234> that means 1. xfsettingsd crashed
<ali1234> and 2. it crashed because of something to o with multimonitor
<ali1234> BadRRCrtc -> RR = Xrandr, Crtc = "a monitor" basically
<elfy> just done it now 
<ali1234> so pretty much this means a monitor disappeared and that caused xfsettings to crash
<elfy> right 
<elfy> I wonder if that's the tv plugged in 
<ali1234> quite possibly, especially if it is HDMI
<elfy> it is 
<elfy> ok - I'll unplug that and then monitor it again
<ali1234> TVs can do weird things
<elfy> only use it to watch movies and not doing a lot of that atm anyway
<ali1234> with standby mode and so on, they can really confuse graphics cards
<elfy> yep
<elfy> cheap tesco's job this one is 
<ali1234> it could be video card related too, since the video driver is the one watching for things being plugged/unplugged
<elfy> unplugged it - I'll monitor that now
<ali1234> ultimately though xfsettings shouldn't crash
<elfy> yea
<elfy> I suppose this is all useful, though perhaps not xubuntu related
<elfy> thanks ali1234 
<ali1234> the trouble with those X errors is they are asynchronous
<ali1234> so can be hard to pin down
<elfy> yep
<elfy> ochosi was just worried I think that it was 'us' with an issue - if it's not that'd great, means we can move on 
<ali1234> yeah, it's probably not
<ali1234> it's a xfce issue
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> right - I gtg - back in a few 
<elfy> ali1234: forgot this bit of the xchat story when I was talking to you earlier - it only started after I installed the gtk3 ind stuff
<elfy> so thinking about it - it is something to do with us perhaps
<brainwash> or an update which came in the same time frame
<brainwash> like the gtk 3.10 one
<elfy> possibly 
<elfy> losing the will to live here
<elfy> all I know is that xchat dies and as I use it constantly - if we ship with it like this then we'll be in the wonderful position of having the QA lead using some other xfce distro 
<elfy> all I'm able to do unfortunately is report on it and do what people ask me to test different things
<brainwash> currently there are so many little glitches and annoyances in trusty :/
<brainwash> on top of that, almost all of our new features and packages are still not available (only via PPA)
<elfy> well I'm not noticing that many tbh - just this xchat thing - which I notice rather a lot :D
<brainwash> use a terminal based IRC client and profit :)
<elfy> yep - hopefully after xmas we'll be able to get a lot of this stuff in properly - or it will be too late to 
<elfy> brainwash: I hate them - hence forestpiskie being away and just logging for me when I'm not here ;)
<elfy> brainwash: not even sure at the moment how many things there are ticking away on PPAs lol
<elfy> hi GridCube 
<GridCube> hi elfy 
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> hi DanChapman 
<DanChapman> heya elfy :-) how are you?
<elfy> dry
<elfy> :)
<sergio-br2> elfy, my indicator panel went transparency
<sergio-br2> *transparent
<elfy> so does mine from time to time 
<elfy> it's a known issue
<sergio-br2> i have the apport info, do you care?
<elfy> you can keep it there and see if ochosi wants it 
<elfy> but I think that they're on top of that issue
<elfy> or at least don't want reports about it at present
<sergio-br2> there is other issue, if i disable and enable bluetooth from the old indicator, the news indicator close
<elfy> sergio-br2: did you read the trusty wiki for these gtk3 indicators?
<sergio-br2> yeah
<sergio-br2> there are 4 issues
<sergio-br2> 3 now
<elfy> did you add the workaround to /etc/environment?
<elfy> but to be honest - I don't know 
<elfy> report it if you want - though apport will complain that it's not an official package - which it isn't 
<sergio-br2> i didn't add the /etc/environment workaround
<sergio-br2> ok, i will see this
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> cya
<brainwash> workaround: turn off the compositor and the transparent indicator area will turn black :)
 * elfy would make the whole panel transparent :p
<sergio-br2> hi
<Noskcaj> lderan, PING. I've made a few basic autopilot tests, an incomplete gthumb one that tests a bit more. Would you be able to help me with debugging the gthumb one?
<Noskcaj> Also, the only xubuntu packages i've found that support introspection are catfish and simple-scan
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-22
<Noskcaj> Can some of you leave a comment at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#Xubuntu_PackageSet to help me get packageset upload rights?
<sergio-br2> Noskcaj, how can i do a bluetooth testcase, if there isn't ?
<sergio-br2> first, hello :p
<Noskcaj> hey sergio-br2. Just use the package a bit, see if everything works. Or write a testcase for it
<sergio-br2> but have i acces to this things?
<sergio-br2> there is no hardware test case for trusty, but there are to saucy. I don't know how to do a test case, but ctrl+c & ctrl+v yeah :)
<Noskcaj> Could i have a link please?
<sergio-br2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1263351
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1263351 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Bluetooth does not connect to a Galaxy Trend" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Noskcaj> You don't need a testcase to report a bug, if that's what you mean
<sergio-br2> and this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/1263430
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1263430 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "gnome-bluetooth does not send or receive files" [Undecided,New]
<sergio-br2> no, this is not what i mean
<sergio-br2> i mean that there is no qa to bluetooth things... or i didn't find it
<Noskcaj> Only bluetooth thing i can find is http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55992/testcases/1591/results
<sergio-br2> hum, i can add test result for bluez, for example, but for gnome-bluetooth i think no
<brainwash> doesn't xubuntu ship blueman?
<sergio-br2> yeah
<sergio-br2> but it does not use gnome-bluetooth
<brainwash> do we really need a testcase for bluetooth? hardly one uses it anyway
<sergio-br2> and the second bug is with gnome-bluetooth or related
<sergio-br2> well...
<brainwash> how do these bugs affect xubuntu?
<sergio-br2> hum, the first bug affects xubuntu
<sergio-br2> blueman does not connect with the device in xubuntu, i think that is a problem with bluez
<brainwash> so you will have to update/change the bug report
<sergio-br2> so, this bug, i will associate with blueman in lubuntu qa
<sergio-br2> why?
<brainwash> because xubuntu does not use bluez
<sergio-br2> i put bluez as affect. I tried blueman and gnome-bluetooth, and both didn't pair with smartphone
<sergio-br2> but blueman don't use bluez?
<sergio-br2> sorry, i'm noob
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, don't worry. I manage to look stupid on a daily basis, so you're doing pretty well
<sergio-br2> humm, it's true, bluez isn't blueman dependence
<brainwash> mmh
<sergio-br2> so, what's common with blueman and gnome-bluetooth?
<brainwash> the iso actually comes with bluez
<brainwash> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/trusty-desktop-amd64.manifest
<brainwash> well, I don't know
<Noskcaj> How much of xfce is C++? I was going to try and learn C or C++ and apparently C++ is easier.
<brainwash> much c
<Noskcaj> such code, so compile, wow?
<brainwash> what?
<brainwash> that's not proper english
<Noskcaj> Never mind, it's a bad internet joke
<sergio-br2> bluetooth experience in xubuntu is much better than in ubuntu :)
<sergio-br2> it's less painfull
<Noskcaj> I think it leaks memory though. I never used it and it used 40mb of RAM at standby
<Noskcaj> (just the indicator visible)
<sergio-br2> really?
<sergio-br2> i will see that
<Noskcaj> last i checked
<sergio-br2> well, here don't care, i have 8 GB ram :D
<sergio-br2> or at least 4 GB, in the other laptop
<Noskcaj> This laptop has 4, but it still annoys me.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: It's python isn't it?  So that'd be expected.
<Noskcaj> yeah. Python and dead upstream
<Lone_Coyote> http://xkcd.com/713/  that one?
<sergio-br2> brainwash, Noskcaj, https://github.com/cschramm/blueman/blob/master/README.md
<Lone_Coyote> oops, sorry, wrong window
<sergio-br2> its seems that blueman uses bluez
<Unit193> Lone_Coyote: Heh, still a good one.
<DanChapman> Noskcaj, I see you using the process manager, I was able to introspect it fine the other day, but you mentioned a newer version coming, I have 3.2.5 installed here. But anyway were you unable to introspect it? 
 * DanChapman jaw drops at the sheer amount of widget trees in gthumb, it's crazy 
<elfy> ok - ochosi brainwash ali1234 - so now - indicator panel is not changing to transparent - but is real jet black rather than the sort of greyish black the rest of the panel is
<elfy> but - xchat stayed normal - they did tend to happen at the same time - following discussions with ali yesterday - tv hdmi is disconnected still
<Noskcaj> DanChapman, I'm not sure i was able to introspect it here. the version should be 3.2.5-2
<Noskcaj> nevermind, it does introspect
<Noskcaj> so my list of "working" is now gthumb and catfish
<elfy> DanChapman: a really basic thought here that I'm not sure I ever got to the bottom of - these autopilot tests - what do they actually test in general - that the thing works or can it do more?
<Noskcaj> I only used process manager since i was porting from the other tests
<elfy> like catfish - does it test it can find things? 
<Noskcaj> elfy, core xfce: that it works, catfish + gthumb: possibly everything
<Noskcaj> I assume menulibre and mugshot would work fully too
<elfy> Noskcaj: when you say everything - you mean everything that the manual test checks?
<Noskcaj> If we have the dev time to make a test, i'm pretty sure yes
<DanChapman> elfy yes in theory and written well it can do everything you do manually
<elfy> right ok - thanks :)
<Noskcaj> DanChapman, Is there a guide anywhere for writing tests for gtk or just use the command list?
<elfy> Noskcaj: I understand that - so a generalised plan for us then would be to disable the manual once we are sure that the entirety of the manual test is covered
<Noskcaj> Maybe make the manual one a low-priority smoke test, so people can still report errors if they want
<elfy> possibly - but that's a long way in the future 
<Noskcaj> yeah
<elfy> time to be looking at that is not LTS cycle :D
<DanChapman> Noskcaj, I have made a start on writing one but it's more aiming at Ubiquity than others which is slightly different but there is no official guide, I mainly use the autopilot documentation myself just replace the Qt/QML referenced stuff with Gtk widges :-)
<Noskcaj> ok. I never really know what to replace, but coding isn't my strong point. I barely know what self. does.
<elfy> Noskcaj: it's not your strong point ... I hide under rocks 
<Noskcaj> :)
<elfy> we do what we can :p
<DanChapman> Noskcaj, self is exactly what it says. In other languages its similar to syntax like 'this.' and 'me.' which you can use both them if you wanted, self is the 'standard' way and is just the instance the method is bound too.
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> I'll see if i can improve the test tomorrow. Tonight i've got one ftbfs to look at then watch house of cards
<DanChapman> Noskcaj, It will click one day :-) I never used to get any of it... and couldn't get how anyone even understood any of it. But the more code you write the easier it becomes
<Noskcaj> That's probably my issue. I don't actually code much
 * DanChapman is sure that trying to unsubscribe from groupon is just a magic button to triple the junk!!
<Noskcaj> I think i'm subscribe to something like that, but i get so much spam from debian, i barely notice
<DanChapman> Noskcaj, elfy, what's your thoughts on having a seperate xubuntu-autopilot-tests project? rather than mixing up ubuntu/xubuntu apps in the same project which is kind of confusing and end up having to install loads of deps to run the whole suite? just a thought
<Noskcaj> DanChapman, I support it, although most would be far from pretty, and we'd probably need to copy the evince test across
<elfy> DanChapman: that sounds like a good idea - the only downside will be if people from say kubuntu start looking - do we end up with projects for all
<Noskcaj> One other xubuntu app that introspects is simple-scan
<elfy> Noskcaj: not sure we need to copy things - common apps are common - just like we don't have xubuntu manual tests for firefox etc
<Noskcaj> elfy, Lubuntu couldn't, and i'm not sure kubuntu have the time, at least till after kde 4.12 is finished
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> And gnome have 2 devs total
<elfy> if we did that then I would be inclined to say that a xubuntu-autopilot-tests project would be things specific to us
<elfy> Noskcaj: I know what you're saying - but I try to look further ahead 
<elfy> while they aren't my/our responsibility - I try to think of as many official flavours when I have a general qa head on :)
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> Maybe we just have a separate branch in the project?
<elfy> no idea - but the general theory from DanChapman makes sense to me
<DanChapman> hmmm well they could all go under an umbrella project or even at least have a seperate branch ( Noskcaj beat me too it)
<elfy> :)
<DanChapman> But i think having them all together makes no sense :-)
<elfy> agreed
<elfy> the trouble with all this - manual/automatic stuff is it's originally done for Ubuntu - then everyone else joins in
<elfy> consequently the original plans are done with that in mind
<elfy> which is normal enough
<DanChapman> elfy true :-) Since xubuntu has quite a few Gtk2 apps and autopilot 'should' be supporting that. I will look into building autopilot-gtk against Gtk2 so it will give more opportunities for better tests :-) 
<elfy> that'd be appreciated - though I'm not sure what the future holds for us with those 
<DanChapman> elfy, are you looking to move on from them now then?
<elfy> not sure what the longish term plan is - for the moment we're not
<Noskcaj> g'night buys
<elfy> and to be honest I get confused as to which are which at present
<elfy> night Noskcaj :)
<DanChapman> see ya Noskcaj o/
<brainwash> elfy: you do you mean with "so now"? did you disable the compositor?
<elfy> yea
<brainwash> elfy: oh, my question started with "you" :D
<brainwash> disabling the compositor does not really help actually
<elfy> installing kubuntu worked wonders :p
<elfy> brainwash: to be frank - I'm not worried about it now - I'll just wait for it to land properly in trusty - then I'll worry about it again
<elfy> I'm assuming that it will land in time anyway
<elfy> back later 
<ochosi> elfy: eric was working on a patch â and he posted it to bugzilla already (i think) â that should help with that transparency bug. at least the panel now accepts the changes in bg color and alpha again (so i'm hoping your issue will be resolved by it too)
<ochosi> andrzejr, ali1234 ^
<ochosi> here you go: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10561
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10561 in Panel "[PATCH] Fix transparency issues with GTK3 plugins" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> please test and reply on bz whether it works!
<ochosi> note: it's not working with all themes/engines yet, but with e.g. adwaita and our themes it's fine (ambiance/radiance don't work, haven't been able to figure out why though yet)
<elfy> ochosi: well I can try it - but you know I'll nto have much idea what I'm supposed to do with it :)
<ochosi> elfy: well you'd have to follow the instructions to manually compile the panel (as formulated for the saucy instructions) and apply the patch
<elfy> k
<ochosi> elfy: have you tried reverting the gtk3 indicator packages to see whether the xchat bug still appears?
<ochosi> g2g, later guys
<ochosi> and gals
<elfy> ochosi: nope -= not done anything much - not going to be doing anything this side of xmas tbf
<elfy> cya later
<elfy> ochosi: not had recurrence of the xchat thing since yesterday morning when ali1234 said it could well be the tv and hdmi so I disconnected
<ali1234> "Updating from saucy-proposed fixed the printing indicator on my machine" - no, no it didn't...
<andrzejr> ochosi, the patch needs some more work but it mostly does the job
<andrzejr> see my comment on bug #10561
<ubottu> bug 10561 in enigmail (Ubuntu) "encrypted messages in sent mailbox" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10561
<andrzejr> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10561
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10561 in Panel "[PATCH] Fix transparency issues with GTK3 plugins" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> oh, Noskcaj should update his gtk3 indicator ppa then :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, ?
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10561
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10561 in Panel "[PATCH] Fix transparency issues with GTK3 plugins" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> If you got some time to do it
<brainwash> I will try it somewhat later
<Noskcaj> yeah, i'll do it. Should it be just a patch or is there a new release coming?
<Unit193> Though, the patch isn't complete.
<brainwash> but it's one step forward
<Unit193> Quite.
<Unit193> I suppose I should update it to xfdesktop4 4.11.2, as well. >_>
<brainwash> oh nice, xfdesktop: "Scale down oversize icons in menus"
<brainwash> I'll update it too :D
<Unit193> You got tabwin?
<brainwash> no
<Unit193> Ah, you're no fun.
<brainwash> tabwin is the alt-tab switch window, right?
<Unit193> Yes, in this case it indicates the new work on it.
<brainwash> sergio-br2: editing the conf file did not work for me either, so it looks like xfce4 settings daemon does not disable the actions for the top/bottom touchpad area
<brainwash> tapping the top right area triggers a scrollwheel click
<sergio-br2> so, it's xfce settings problems?
<brainwash> if you call it a problem, then yes
<brainwash> synclient -l | grep -i cornerbutton
<brainwash> we would need to report it upstream
<Noskcaj> Is there a know memory leak in tumblerd?
<Noskcaj> Yeah, that's definitely a leak. It's at 300mb now
<brainwash> I recall reading about it
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-15
 * ochosi just upgraded to gtk3.14 from ubuntu-desktop's testing PPA on vivid
<elfy> ochosi is flying along on the crest of a wave this cycle :)
<ochosi> yalla, that isn't all looking right
<ochosi> i mean, it *could* be worse
<ochosi> but there are a few things that are messed up
<elfy> right
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess you have to push an update to catfish for 3.14... http://i.imgur.com/cVg72ci.png
<ochosi> should be simple though in this case
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i take it back. in fact i have to update greybird, nothing you have to do for catfish, that's all good
<elfy> you want me to upgrade gtk as well to double check your updates?
<elfy> if so - point me at the ppa :)
<ochosi> elfy: will do. for now i can just tell you that a lot of stuff looks broken :)
<ochosi> thing is, i'm waiting for satya to finish the SASS port of Numix for gtk3.14
<ochosi> then i'll port Greybird based on that
<elfy> ochosi: that's ok - I don't mind that too much - looks all the better when the fix comes :D
<ochosi> so trying to fix small issues now is a waste of time
<ochosi> just looking what general issues we might be having
<elfy> ok - well how about you let me know when it should be better and I'll do it then 
<ochosi> yup, that's better :)
<ochosi> already found the first bug i can fix though
<elfy> :)
<elfy> ochosi: here's an odd one - I move window controls to the left, calc keeps the close on the right 
<ochosi> not really odd, it's CSD
<ochosi> (client-side decorations)
<ochosi> there is no way we can change that other than by hardcoding it in the theme
<ochosi> which is why it's on the right, like the xubuntu default
<elfy> ok - thanks
<ochosi> Unit193: didn't you have a replacement suggestion for gnome-calculator?
<Unit193> No.
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> we could install galculator
<ochosi> apart from the ugly app-icon it sets, it looks quite alright
<ochosi> and it has a menubar and traditional window borders
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/D0YSo0l.png
<Unit193> Hah, that's the one I just looked at. :P
<ochosi> well it says mate on the packaging, so it should be alright
<ochosi> do we have many other apps with CSD?
<ochosi> (simple-scan is already being fixed)
<Unit193> And some of those can look to MATE alternatives.
<ochosi> hmm, file-roller
<Unit193> Hmm, GTK#?
<ochosi> what're you asking?
<elfy> hi Unit193 
<Unit193> !info graphmonkey
<ubottu> graphmonkey (source: graphmonkey): a GTK#-based graphing calculator. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.7-3 (utopic), package size 42 kB, installed size 117 kB
<Unit193> elfy: Howdy, too.
<ochosi> that's too complex anyway
<ochosi> i guess it's gtk+c#
<ochosi> but i dunno
<bluesabre> elfy, ochosi, there is a way to fix that
<bluesabre> ochosi, can you investigate adding this to the xfwm settings?
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/530
<bluesabre> basically, the layout for GtkHeaderBars is: <left-side of header>:<right-side of header>
<bluesabre> elfy: ^ Settings > Settings Editor, "xsettings" -> "DecorationLayout"
<elfy> bluesabre: ack
<ochosi> elfy: my intelligent hiding patch was reviewed today, so i hope it'll be pushed in the next days and then we'll soon have it in the PPA. have you noticed any other oddities with intelligent hiding so far?
<ochosi> btw, file-roller is supposed to get the headerbar removed
<elfy> ochosi: no - not seen anything else I would call odd at all 
<elfy> as soon as I see the upgrade I'll set it to hide again and check it works for me as well as you :)
<ochosi> yup, i'll let you know when it lands 
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> ochosi: as soon as that's landed perhaps we could look at running a call for corner tiling - unless you want to leave it a while 
<ochosi> yeah, actually i discovered one or two issues myself already that i would want to resolve first
<elfy> I know that a few that test for us - also test buntu wide - and there should be a call for alpha 1 this week 
<elfy> ochosi: ok - when you're ready give me a shout then :)
<ochosi> yeah, not sure how much time i'll have before christmas to figure this out
<elfy> ok - well a2 is week commencing 19th January 
<elfy> so try and remember I'd not want extra in for that week
<ochosi> sure
<sidi> just  FYI there's a Xub user on the xfce user ML who complains about recurrent Thunar crashes
<sidi> it'd be a great idea to give him/her some instructions on running a Thunar that writes a coredump or that logs TRACE() calls to a file we can retrieve
<ochosi> afaik thunar is one of the most frequent crashers in xubuntu
<ochosi> i think ali1234 looked into that a bit
<ochosi> sidi: ^
<sidi> ochosi, i did run a debug version too but mine crashes rarely
<sidi> primarily because i dont use file managers much
<ochosi> sidi: here's the follow-up discussion of thunar... https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2014-November/030918.html
<sidi> ochosi, oh right
<ochosi> so yeah, those things don't go unnoticed, but i guess so far nobody has found the culprit
<bluesabre> I'll keep the file-roller headerbar if it means there are not two menubars
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> I'd take two menus over none.
 * bluesabre aims to patch in a third menu for good measure
<bluesabre> how's it going Unit193?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but actually it's just their patches being borked
<ochosi> i talked to larsu today
<ochosi> also the issue with gnome-calculator will likely be resolved
<ochosi> right now it checks for !unity instead of for ==gnome
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool
<bluesabre> will probably patch lls tonight and package up ll for vivid
<ochosi> if they don't fix it in time we gotta poke them
<ochosi> wow, that'd be quick
<ochosi> don't you wanna just patch xfpm instead?
<ochosi> to me it sounds like a nicer investment
<ochosi> although if we want to keep *maximum modularity* then yes, fine, keep lls around
<ochosi> to me the original idea of lls though was being a crutch for 14.04 and ll not having a proper settings interface
<bluesabre> ochosi: true, was just going to do lls quickly since it is a quick to fix thing
<ochosi> actually now people can easily change their setting via dconf-editor etc
<bluesabre> but maybe thats just lazy of me :)
<ochosi> adding another tab for xfpm is just as easy though
<ochosi> (almost)
<ochosi> since you already know how to handle gsettings in c, the rest is a piece of cake, no?
<ochosi> although yeah, we need a runtime-check for light-locker again
<ochosi> but with dbus, that should be more reliable now, no?
<ochosi> and less PID-y
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-16
<bluesabre>  yes, agreed
<ochosi> (the only thing we might have to keep in mind is to autoremove lls on the next LTS->LTS upgrade)
<bluesabre> yeah, no big deal there
<ochosi> if you wanna hack at xfpm-settings, i
<ochosi> 'd be up for another 30mins
<bluesabre> we're running out to the store now
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> bad timing
<bluesabre> I'll get started on it though when I get back
<bluesabre> put it in a branch so you can hack on it too :D
<ochosi> hm, just a quick question before you run out
<bluesabre> k
<ochosi> cause i could add the tab to the glade file up front for you
<ochosi> but then again, how would you wanna make it conditional?
<ochosi> bake it in via a separate builder file?
<ochosi> or just show/hide the tab in the code?
<bluesabre> we can selectively hide/show the tab
<ochosi> right, then i can quickly hack at the ui file and post a diff
<ochosi> then you have something to start with
<bluesabre> great, that would help a lot
<ochosi> i'll leave the gsettings-binds to you
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> note: this'll be based on xfpm-master
<bluesabre> bbabl
<bluesabre> ok, thats cool with me
<ochosi> good, ttyl
<ochosi> (or actually, !ttyl :))
<ochosi> bluesabre: took a tiny bit longer than 30mins because i re-arranged everything from boxes to a table (cleaner code): http://i.imgur.com/VubvTHB.png
<ochosi> this just mirrors the light-locker settings UI now
<ochosi> obviously the security-frame in the system-tab has to be hidden when that tab is shown
<ochosi> (for the duplicate lock-on-suspend option)
<ochosi> and you have to create the callbacks and hook them up to gsettings
<ochosi> and finally you have to fill the combobox for the auto-lock-modes
<ochosi> but that's it
<ochosi> (ok, i forgot: the late-locking option needs its own format in order to display seconds instead of minutes)
<ochosi> excuse the ridiculously long widget-names, but (1) consistency and (2) avoiding potential conflict with other widgets that might get added to xfpm-settings was the idea behind it
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/301PJNA
<ochosi> there ya go ^
<ochosi> and i'm out
<ochosi> nighty all
<ochosi> Unit193: just so you know, i assigned a mini-workitem to you, since you're now part of -dev ;)
<ochosi> Noskcaj: btw, i tested bluez5 and found no issues so far. is there anything you're expecting to happen/break?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, as long as blueman isn't breaking, we're all good
<Noskcaj> I have nothing to do with bluez5 now, just hoping it will be done soon
<Unit193> ochosi: Right, though shouldn't do it yet, since xfpm still doesn't have it. :P
<brainwash> ochosi: you've marked the parole bug as invalid despite "Also, it does not matter whether the option to prevent the screen saver is on or off in parole preferences."
<brainwash> is this problem not a bug in the parole code?
<ochosi> brainwash: hm right, yeah, there seems to be a different problem, forgot about that one
<brainwash> ochosi: I was about to mark the ubuntu report as invalid also, but I noticed this little detail then
<brainwash> It's possible that fixing xdg-screensaver will make changes to the parole code unnecessary though
<ochosi> nah, there is something fishy there
<ochosi> not sure, we'll have to look at it
<ochosi> seems like it always prevents the screensaver, independently of the setting
<ochosi> plus it resets it to default when the setting is off
<ochosi> so there's definitely a problem here
<brainwash> I'll take a closer look later, it shouldn't be that hard to fix
<ochosi> okeydokey, bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi: I started work on xfpm and light-locker packaging last night, will probably get it done today... nothing to commit or upload yet
<bluesabre> I think we used hoards of boxes because its difficult to nicely position elements otherwise, but we should be able to get by
<bluesabre> usually a bit more limited with gtk2
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> well actually i was using more tables, but hjudt redid it all with boxes because of the potentially long translations and stuff
<ochosi> anyway, for the light-locker tab it's fine to use a table
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<ochosi> xfpm packaging? you mean 1.4.2?
<bluesabre> no, light-locker packaging
<bluesabre> for 1.5.1
<ochosi> ah ok
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> ah got it now :)
<bluesabre> should be pretty painless to plug light-locker in though, I think I can do it tonight
<ochosi> nice
<brainwash> do the elementary guys include light-locker into their settings interface?
<bluesabre> they will probably write a plug for it
<ochosi> i'll talk to the others about whether we want that patch upstream as well, since it detects light-locker and all
<ochosi> yeah, they either have been working on it already or are working on it
<ochosi> but also included in some security/privacy plug i think
<brainwash> light-locker-settings will not be maintained anymore?
<ochosi> nope
<brainwash> ok :)
<ochosi> everybody can change settings via dconf-editor et al now
<bluesabre> I'll probably do another patch to make lls work
<ochosi> meh :)
<bluesabre> not everybody will use xfpm
<ochosi> i thought we were getting rid of maintenance load here
<ochosi> yeah true, but then again, gsettings...
<bluesabre> we can ask for it to be removed from the archive then
<bluesabre> I don't want something with our names on it to not work ;)
<ochosi> also, there was a plan to have a cli switches to change light-locker's settings
<ochosi> bluesabre: well, we can just add a note: "works with light-locker <=1.4"
<ochosi> imo that's enough
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> but it would need to be removed from the archive
<ochosi> or saying "this piece of software is deprecated and only works with..."
<bluesabre> where light-locker 1.5.1 will now reside
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> true
<bluesabre> or we can just patch it for the new gsettings (minimal work) and users can enjoy it
<ochosi> i was actually thinking of the launchpad page for some reason
<ochosi> heh, as you wish
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> as long as you promise that we do this *after* the workitems i added last night
<bluesabre> ofc
<bluesabre> lls is not top priority
<ochosi> (cause i know you love python and would much rather do that then work on xfpm)
<bluesabre> but Unit193, do not drop from the archive until I've uploaded the fixes for lls
<bluesabre> otherwise will have a fun time trying to sponsor
<Unit193> Archive being seed? :)
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I wasn't going to drop until xfpm got the fix, or until the new one was usable that is.  Besides, isn't Lubuntu the "only" other seeder of it?  They have xfpm (though, issues with OnlyShowIn=xfce)
<ochosi> yeah, i think lubuntu is the only one
<ochosi> what do -studio and myth- do?
<Unit193> Don't know, but they don't directly seed it.
<Unit193> Then there is also Debian #745509, but not really your problem.
<ubottu> Debian bug 745509 in wnpp "RFP: light-locker-settings -- Simple configuration tool for light-locker." [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/745509
<Unit193> ochosi: xscreensaver.
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> ttyl bluesabre 
<ochosi> hmpf, indicator-sound is still a bit borked with gtk3.14
<ochosi> yay custom widgetry
<bluesabre> I'll also try to get indicator things added to the seed today, unless you guys want to poke it
<bluesabre> really bbl
<ochosi> Unit193: ^ ?
<ochosi> k :)
<Unit193> Hmm?
<ochosi> the indicator things for ubiquity
<ochosi> (at least i assume that's what bluesabre meant with "indicator things")
<ochosi> has that commit of yours even been looked at/merged yet?
<Unit193> I'd presume he means add indicator-{sound,application} to the packageset, because I know of nothing else.  And not that I know of, no.
<ochosi> have you subscribed xnox to it yet?
<Unit193> I may not have, yeah.
<ochosi> bluesabre: please don't forget to actually approve the MR: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubiquity/xfwm4-panel/+merge/244437
<Unit193> Into Ubiquity itself? :)
<ochosi> well you asked for his review
<ochosi> not sure xnox will approve if there's another MR-review pending
<ochosi> knome: thanks for replying to Ridell, i thought we don't have to actively opt-out of a1 (otherwise i'd have sent an email to -release earlier already)
<elfy> ochosi: we might not need to actively optout - but I got asked (same time as knome) so it's only polite to reply :)
<knome> ochosi, what elfy said :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193: if there are panel indicator things, then yes
<ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> otherwise, I was talking about libindicator et
<ochosi> oh, the python thingy for bluetooth?
<bluesabre> yeah, that one
<bluesabre> but I can get to that tonight now that I am home
<ochosi> cool
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-17
<ochosi> bluesabre: just curious, where are you with xfpm-lls
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks for the ack.
<bluesabre> ochosi: sorry, had to step out for groceries
<bluesabre> Unit193: np
<bluesabre> ochosi: should have something tangible tomorrow... building out a vivid vm now, experimental light-locker package (should be fine) in https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
<bluesabre> planning to get up a bit early tomorrow to make some progress
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything else I should be looking at?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think you're good for now
<bluesabre> heading to bed in a very short few minutes
<bluesabre> aka, now :)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/IF9wySzvlxl21bq9vNQW/ there's still that, but not sure we'll use the xfdesktop part. (I still recommend the smclient one.)
<bluesabre> feel free to also propose that one for now
<Unit193> Well, I'd want to figure out what you end up deciding first, re: destop vs feh. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: I have some questions for you later, but sleep well!
<bluesabre> Unit193: what questions do you have?
<bluesabre> if xfdesktop works with that patch, lets use it for now and reevaluate a bit later
<Unit193> Not important, just wondering what's the status of stuff in extras, and if any turned out to be useful enough for real archives.
<Unit193> Alright, can do I suppose.
<bluesabre> hm, haven't reviewed -extras in a while, but I think there is benefit in including it... Ideally I'll get the paperwork for the xfce packageset written this week, and we can just add those to it to get them in the archive (if we want any of them)
<Unit193> soundmenu got more usage than I thought it would, and dash seems like it could be useful, but maybe I'm biased (though don't use either.)
<bluesabre> I should be more reliable after I move at the beginning of next month, still spotty
<bluesabre> yeah, soundmenu is not bad
<bluesabre> we'll work on getting those in
<bluesabre> its too bad debian is in freeze currently
<Unit193> Tell me about it...
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/eFHXa1FdlD4XopWrYkDC rough numbers.
<bluesabre> impressed by xfdashboard's apparent popularity
<Unit193> Indeed, though Fedora's Xfce spin includes it, and WebUpd8 posted about it too.  Fedora added that the same time as whisker actually.
<bluesabre> I see
<bluesabre> I *should* be around this weekend, so if I've not made any mention of it, stab me
<Unit193> Sounds fun.
<Unit193> Err. I mean good.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> for now, bed, back tomorrow ... zzzzz
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ObrienDave> o/
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<Unit193> ochosi: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20141222T2200 That look good to you then?
<ochosi> Unit193: hm, 22nd might be difficult for me to make it, the days before xmas are sorta packed
<ochosi> especially in the evenings
<Unit193> Right, so 21st any better?
<ochosi> not much, that's the problem...
<Unit193> Then the 29th is the next one I'm free.
<ochosi> yeah, the holiday season will be difficult meeting wise but also in terms of actually getting anything done tbh
<ochosi> i will occasionally be around between the 23rd and the 3rd, but i won't be @home during that time (travelling between friends and relatives)
<elfy> might be best to just wait till it's all over - if anyone specifically needs something they can shout in here and wait to see or use m/l
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> but i don't mind if others have a meeting before christmas
<elfy> I'll likely be about anyway - so doesn't affect me either way :)
<Unit193> If there's actually a reason to, sure.
<ochosi> i mean i *might* be able to join, i just can't promise anything...
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<bluesabre> ochosi: light-locker 1.5.1 pushed to xubuntu-staging, will work on xfpm tonight
<bluesabre> bbl
<slickymasterWork> knome ping
<knome> hello slickymasterWork i
<knome> -i
<slickymasterWork> can you think of some reason of why I'm receiving the ML mail with one day delay?
<slickymasterWork> I'm asking because I've just received today that one you answered to the gnome documentation lead
<knome> not really
<slickymasterWork> and I think it's be going on for some time now
<slickymasterWork> s/be/been
<knome> i can check if there's any bits set
<slickymasterWork> I'd appreciate it 
<knome> yeah, you have the digest bit set
<knome> took that off, now you should get mails immediately
<slickymasterWork> I'll change that
<knome> don't
<knome> i did that already
<knome> remember, i have super cow powers on the list ;)
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks for that
<Unit193> ..."Have you mooed today?"...
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> ok, got to work with clients' work now, bbiab
<elfy> mmm appeared to have come across a light locker bug - won't lock :D
<elfy> not got time to do anymore now as I was just off out again :p
<knome> awwh
<elfy> 3
<knome> no, 4
<elfy> ha
<elfy> thought I hit a key :)
<slickymaster> so Unit193, branched the epub branch
<Unit193> Everything break?
<slickymaster> to build, do I just: run make -C desktop-guide epub
<slickymaster> make -C desktop-guide epub, that is
<Unit193> Could be, dunno. :P
<slickymaster> nothing broke building them locally 
<slickymaster> I ran make -C desktop-guide epub
<slickymaster> and this what I got Unit193 -> http://pastebin.com/bUXeWnGL
<slickymaster> but I unable to find any epub file anywhere
<knome> slickymaster, under build/desktop-guide?
<Unit193> And, zip is installed?
<slickymaster> nothing knome 
<slickymaster> good question Unit193 
<slickymaster> yes,  Installed: 3.0-8
<slickymaster> wait, found it
<slickymaster> was looking at the wronh path :P
<slickymaster> * wrong
<knome> hah
<Unit193> :D
<knome> silly david
<Unit193> I use epubcheck-4.0.0-alpha11 to check it too, fwiw.
<slickymaster> damn it, no epub viewer installed
<slickymaster> will search for one after dinner
<slickymaster> and the file doesn't seem to be to heavy, just 177,9 kB
<slickymaster> great work Unit193 
<Unit193> Uhh, thanks?
<Unit193> Now the question: Is it useful? :P
<slickymaster> yeah, why not
<slickymaster> ?
<slickymaster> that question was already made by skellat and he did regarded as needed
<elfy> mmm
<slickymaster> and there were other opinions that stated the same
<elfy> so I regard libreoffice as needed :p
<slickymaster> at least I remember that someone in -off mentioning it
 * Unit193 stabs elfy.
 * slickymaster can't
<slickymaster> but not necessarily elfy 
<Unit193> Yes, then was discussed with zyL and Pasi after I think, and they made the remark that they could convert to n formats, but there's so many that "could be useful".
<knome> i think we can do epub (if that seems like it's useful) and pdf (if people need that)
<slickymaster> as I recall it the final intention was to essentialy be able to easily get a pdf file of the docs
<knome> other than that, meh
<elfy> who is zyl?
<knome> they are such corner cases anyway
<knome> i'm off for now, be back later today
<ochosi> elfy: spell backwards
<slickymaster> I was thinking pleia2 
<slickymaster> )
<Unit193> Trying not to needlessly ping the busy one(s).
<slickymaster> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hey guys
<slickymaster> I did it Unit193, my bad :(
<Unit193> :P
<Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
 * slickymaster needs to eat
<slickymaster> dinner time for me
<slickymaster> bbiab
<Unit193> Right so I got the epub, who gets the pdf? :P
<knome> Unit193, you? :)
<bluesabre> evening folks
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<slickymaster> fine thanks
<slickymaster> how about you?
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> doing well
<bluesabre> ochosi: gtk3 task-manager looks lovely
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-18
<bluesabre> Unit193: vivid stable enough currently for me to run with it?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm personally waiting until A1/after A1, which is right around the corner.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I've been on vivid since it was first an option, everything is ok so far, but the gtk 3.14 update (due friday) might break stuff
<Unit193> Erp, yep waiting until a while after that.  It's pretty fugly in Debian, TBH.
<ochosi> bluesabre: i've been on vivid for a while now and also been using gtk3.14. it's not great with 3.14, but it's okayish, i guess we'll get there (still waiting for the numix sass port to finish)
<bluesabre> ochosi: making very slow and steady progress with the light-locker integration, but it should be a painless patch to apply once I finish
<ochosi> cool!
<bluesabre> was going to do a lot last night, but got pulled into packing boxes and talking
<ochosi> i tried to make the glade-changes as little invasive as possible too
<ochosi> i presume you weren't packing gtkboxes?
<bluesabre> thats correct :)
<ochosi> well it sounds like an enjoyable evening though
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> we're getting pretty excited for the move for sure
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> that's good to hear
<ochosi> i hope everything goes smoothly
<bluesabre> me too
<ochosi> uh-oh, Laney just uploaded gtk3.14
<bluesabre> makes sense
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you wanna push the latest version of greybird, that'd make it a tad smoother (although some stuff will still look bad)
<ochosi> the indicators look really nasty without the patch
<bluesabre> ochosi: remind me this evening :)
<ochosi> well as soon as you'll install/try vivid, you'll be reminded automatically ;)
<ochosi> but yeah, i might just do that
<ochosi> elfy: whenever gtk3.14 lands in vivid (and it should soon), the current greybird-theming will fail (e.g. with indicators). if you want to test the fix for that, you can check the shimmerproject's daily PPA, where the fixed version of greybird sits
<ochosi> note that there'll still be visual issues, but patching those up doesn't make too much sense since a rewrite is imminent
<elfy> ochosi: I'm using shimmer daily anyway
<ochosi> ah ok
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> well, at least now you explicitely know and if others have issues, you'll know what it's about ;)
<ochosi> same with the icon theme btw
<brainwash> did ubuntu fix these issues already?
<ochosi> in the open-file dialog there was a missing icon, that's there in -daily already
<elfy> ochosi: ok - thanks 
<ochosi> brainwash: "these issues"?
<brainwash> "visual issues"
<ochosi> most of them are "normal" gtk3 breakage because of the version bump
<ochosi> i suppose they've gone through their list of issues if they upload
<brainwash> would it be possible to copy the changes?
<ochosi> brainwash: "...patching those up doesn't make too much sense since a rewrite is imminent"
<brainwash> a rewrite will magically fix it?
 * knome facepalms
<knome> since gtk3 is in a constantly moving state, it makes no sense to fix it since it's likely that the fix is broken with the next gtk3 update
<brainwash> that the reason why I asked if one could copy what the ubuntu devs did to make their themes work properly
<knome> copying that would take time and effort, and it would be just as much in vain as simply doing the fix yourself
<knome> there are better/more important tasks to spend time at...
<knome> we will fix it for the release, whatever gtk3 version we are at at that point
<brainwash> that's fine, so I won't bother and try to diff the themes
<brainwash> this way I've found out why the button highlight did not work in the sound menu for greybird
<brainwash> back then
<brainwash> so, I'm just trying to help and not command people to fix everything asap
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, but for now it seems all issues are gtk3.14 related and as i said, there's a port to SASS that we'll be doing most likely for 15.04
<ochosi> you're free to look into it ofc
<pleia2> 18 Dec 14 12:39 PM - Shipment delivered - SAN FRANCISCO,UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
<pleia2> amagad stickers
<elfy> woohoo
 * pleia2 goes to get
<ochosi> weee
<knome> great!
<elfy> lurkers awake !!!
<elfy> pleia2 has some sort of super power lol 
<knome> mooo.
<elfy> ha ha 
<ochosi> i guess she just happened to be the first person saying something interesting
<elfy> lol
<knome> or anything in th last hours.
<ochosi> bluesabre: reminder: update greybird from git for 15.04 with gtk3.14 patches. thanks!
<pleia2> aww man, false alarm
<pleia2> different package (same unusual carrier)
<knome> :D
<ochosi> crap
<knome> stupid carrier
<ochosi> all the excitement for nothing!
<knome> yes!
<knome> this has to be the worst christmas ever!
<pleia2> on the bright side, my portable projector has arrived, aren't you happy?
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> pleia2, BOO
<ochosi> pleia2: very.
<pleia2> hehe
 * knome gets the rotten tomatoes out of the cellar closet
<dkessel> pleia2: ok, so how portable do portable projectors get these days?
<knome> that reminds me... (follow up in #xubuntu-offtopic)
 * ochosi considers to send pleia2 a package of surstrÃ¶mming labelled as "xubuntu stickers"
<dkessel> lol
<dkessel> ochosi: are you sure you're going to get it sent to her? it might be classified as biological weapon
<pleia2> dkessel: for cheap, not very :)
<pleia2> I got this one http://www.lightinthebox.com/400lm-mini-hd-home-led-projector-with-super-bright-led-technology-pc-laptop-vga-usb-sd-hdmi-uc28-gold_p1508346.html
<knome> ochosi, uhhh... not sure if they are even letting you ship that
<pleia2> I can hold it in one hand
<knome> (i'm not kidding, it's probably prohibited for the explosion potential)
<elfy> https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forums/europe-scandinavia-the-nordics/topics/surstromming-in-ryanair
<dkessel> pleia2: that's not too big
<pleia2> nah, it's ok
<JackFrost> == A1 freeze, but if it's only our packages should still be OK. ==
<ochosi> JackFrost: thanks for bringing us back on topic ;)
<knome> pleia2, wow the resolution, the last time i checked (years ago) thing like that could do 800x600..
<knome> pleia2, what's the crappy feature on that?
<knome> i mean, it can't be that cheap unless it has something that's a bit off..
<knome> brightness? contrast?
<elfy> knome: it's not really gold ... 
<ochosi> holy crap
<knome> elfy, lol
<ochosi> that's a lot of resolution
<ochosi> maybe it's very loud?
<knome> how can it be, it's so small
<knome> :P
<elfy> knome: you never met my ex 
<knome> huhu, this is a logged chan :P
<ochosi> knome: you think his ex is reading this..?
<elfy> indeed - but she can't work websites :D
<knome> ochosi, who knows...
<elfy> JackFrost: did you think anymore about when meeting is? 
<ochosi> pleia2: if it weren't too late for that, that'd be a nice christmas present...
<JackFrost> elfy: Sounded like any time before the holiday wasn't going to work, I was trying to get feedback on when it'd be the most useful rather than running it pointlessly.
<elfy> yep - makes sense 
<elfy> just want to make sure we have one pre - alpha2 
<elfy> given that the main reason for taking part in that was where systemd was - not that it would be the only reason
<JackFrost> Right, and you wanted to run that?  So I'll need to run one before that.
<elfy> not if there's no real need I don't :)
<elfy> but it needs to be consensus for that I would think
<JackFrost> 5th? :P
<elfy> works for me - but then most days do - it's the time that causes me issues :)
<elfy> but that said - it'd probably be good to set one that bluesabre can make
<elfy> a discussion on yay or nay on a2 doesn't actually need me there
<JackFrost> IMO, it should, or you should at least make a comment before hand.  Some of us run it, sure, but you're still the most "in the know".
<JackFrost> bluesabre: So, when do you want the next meeting?
<elfy> JackFrost: yea - I can comment of course - and will - at length - but as long as I've done that - that's not a reason to hold one I can attend :)
<JackFrost> I should have more than a VM by then...
<JackFrost> Hah, and now unfrozen as A1 is out.
<JackFrost> Pinged xnox too.
<ochosi> JackFrost: you mean about that ubiquity merge?
<JackFrost> Da.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-19
<bluesabre> JackFrost: I might be able to attend on the 5th, assuming I have internet by then
<JackFrost> bluesabre: 5pm our time?
<bluesabre> sure, I'll plan to take over the coffee shop
 * elfy plans to turn up ... 
<bluesabre> bah, shimmer-themes got pulled from our packageset upload rights it seems
<JackFrost> Whaaaaat?
 * bluesabre will fix
 * elfy lets bluesabre fix that
<JackFrost> Cool, so: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 22:00:00 +0000 it is.  Dang, now I have to mail the list again, and I just did that...
<bluesabre> sorry, often slow to respond these days
<elfy> bluesabre: don't apologise 
<bluesabre> sorry elfy
<bluesabre> :P
<elfy> no setting precedents :)
<bluesabre> also, you're online really late it seems
 * elfy shudders while shuddering 
<JackFrost> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-December/010513.html I broke it. :3
<ochosi> bluesabre: crap, how the hell did that happen?
<bluesabre> ochosi: Laney fixed it, package uploaded
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> cool thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> that was a lot quicker than i had hoped
<elfy> ochosi: so gtk3.14 updates turned up now
<ochosi> elfy: and, total havoc on your screen?
<elfy> nope :)
<ochosi> phew :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> would you mind testing with the 15.04 greybird package too?
<ochosi> just to be sure that bluesabre's upload had the desired result
<elfy> assuming that it came through ppa then I am using it 
<ochosi> it *should* be based on the same commit
<elfy> 201412190846~ubuntu15.04.1
<elfy> anything in particular to look out for - or just run with it and see :)
<ochosi> that's the upload time though i think
<ochosi> cause my commit was from yesterday
<ochosi> well, the panel/indicators were broken
<ochosi> so if that's not the case anymore, i guess we're good
<elfy> I've not rebooted - but I would think that we're good 
<ochosi> right, well that you have to do
<ochosi> or at least restart your session
<elfy> k - I'll do that :)
<ochosi> ty
<elfy> ochosi: looks good to me currently :)
<ochosi> ok, if you notice anything lemme know
<ochosi> could be that the checkboxes still look weird
<ochosi> not sure
<elfy> yep will do 
<elfy> checkboxes look right now - you can see where to en/disable
<ochosi> could you show me a screener?
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-125931.php
<ochosi> looks a bit compressed, but okayish
<ochosi> and that frame... fugly.
<ochosi> but that's not a theme problem, but one of the app
<elfy> synaptic looks odd now - big boxes round the options - http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-130036.php
<ochosi> yeah, i read that ubuntu were patching something wrt toolbars
<ochosi> i think gtk3 changed some default setting there
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> so toolbar buttons look like buttons now
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> need to see whether that should be tackled in the theme or in gtk
<elfy> catfish - http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-130155.php
<ochosi> yeah, bluesabre said he'd take care of that
<elfy> I'd look at parole - but I'll forget to reset blanking :p
<ochosi> as soon as light-locker 1.5.1 has landed in vivid, i'll try to fix xdg-screensaver
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-130354.php
<elfy> yep - I was pleased to find out what that was - that really drove me nuts :D
<ochosi> weird, checkboxes in the menus
<elfy> saw that - hence showing it for you :)
<elfy> anyway - I'm using shimmer and staging and unit's ppa's - so as long as changes show there first - then I can check what I'm seeing here 
<ochosi> yup, i'll start with those buttons
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: just pushed several huge commits to greybird, that should fix most of the remaining gtk3.14 issues
<ochosi> crap, our checkboxes are 17x15 instead of 16x16
<ochosi> that's why they look skewed
<knome> oi :P
<ochosi> sucks a bit cause that means they'll look off by 1px
<ochosi> elfy: could you check whether radiobuttons are also skewed?
<elfy> want to point me at something with radio buttons :p
<ochosi> if you have propr drivers, the additional drivers tab in software and updates has them
<ochosi> also, with the latest version of greybird, those nasty frames should be gone
<elfy> well - they look ok to me - but I've got old eyes and most things do :)
<ochosi> screenshot pls
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-142443.php
<ochosi> also, i just triggered a rebuild, so hopefully you'll get a greybird-update in the afternoon
<elfy> yep - was doing it :)
<ochosi> crap, skewed
<ochosi> ok, thanks
<elfy> ok - I will check that later then
<ochosi> ok, the fix the radios won't be in the build
<ochosi> but it's in git already
<elfy> what do you actually mean by skewed ? 
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke 
<ochosi> well it's not square
<ochosi> the pixmap is 16x15 px and gtk3 used to just not care about that
<ochosi> now i resized the canvas to 16x16 (without scaling the radios/checks) and now the circles should be circular again
<ochosi> instead of slightly ellipse-like
<elfy> oh right - so to you the circles aren't circles ?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> they arent
<ochosi> objectively speaking, not just to me
 * elfy points up logs a bit to where I've got old eyes :)
<elfy> I guess if I zoomed in I'd see it :)
<elfy> thanks though :)
<ochosi> i guess it'd annoy me more than you ;)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> especially if you know the code says 16x15 - even you couldn't actually see it you'd think you could :)
<ochosi> elfy: new packages are built and published, so you should be able to update and test
<elfy> aah - good must have just published them then - I checked 5 minutes ago :p
<elfy> ochosi: all updated now
<ochosi> mind to show me the same windows agai?
<elfy> was just doing that :)
<ochosi> oh good :)
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-150209.php http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-150235.php http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-150404.php http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-191214-150504.php
<elfy> same 4 
<elfy> just realised the screenshot tool has host on imgur 
<elfy> testcase probably needs tweaking
<ochosi> hm, that seems like it didn't pull from github
<ochosi> hmpf, i triggered the rebuild too early
<ochosi> bzr import from git wasn't complete yet...
<ochosi> well, in that case let's just test it tomorrow then
<elfy> ok :)
<ochosi> if it's still not fixed with tomorrow's package, please ping me
<elfy> I wasn't sure if anything had changed - but my eyes you know :p
<slickymasterWork> elfy, re https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1404275, what version of xfce4-screenshooter are you using?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1404275 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Imgur hosting option missing" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<elfy> oh bah humbug - bet it came from unit's ppa ... 
<JackFrost> Was about to say.. :3
<elfy> lol
<slickymasterWork> lol, funky nick you got for the holidays JackFrost 
<JackFrost> Thanks.
<elfy> so we gonna get that at some point soonish (eg 15.04) or not
<JackFrost> They've been working on it upstream a fair bit..
<slickymasterWork> thing is elfy, the one shipped with Vivid doesn't yet offers imgur as hosting option
<elfy> yea - marked it invalid for the moment - when it does land - the fix is waiting :)
<slickymasterWork> ok, you'll probably have to remind me then, to do the review :P
<elfy> JackFrost: well it does work though :p
<ali1234> while people are about, just a reminder that i fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1270090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1270090 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "time-admin can not install ntp" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ali1234> the debdiff needs redo-ing for vivid i guess, i'm still on 14.04 here
<drc> Finally! :)
<elfy> ochosi: is the fix for shaded windows and inteligent hide coming soon?
<drc> pleia2: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/best-distro-2014.html
<pleia2> he sure likes us :)
<pleia2> thanks
<xuxuxu> whats going on in here
<knome> development discussion.
<ochosi> bluesabre: meh, seems like we might have to add a "flat" class to the osd buttons to prevent them from having borders in gtk3.14 :(
<ochosi> should be fairly friction-free in terms of backwards-compatability, but still, meh
<ochosi> bluesabre: i pushed several updates to greybird today after noticing that my previous patches weren't sufficient for the gtk3.14 switch *at all*. if you can push a new package for it, that'd be great. otherwise we can continue to test with the daily builds until i have something solid (should be a lot better now though). it's likely that we won't install bluebird, albatross and orion anymore by default, no time to update them properly...
<knome> ochosi, if it would be just for a similar diff that you showed me earlier, i can run through those two/three themes and do that.
<knome> i mean, if doing that was enough to convince you we can ship them..
<pleia2> woohoo, just confirmed venue (San Francisco Gandi.net offices) for Ubuntu Global Jam, working on Xubuntu QA again :)
<knome> yay
<ochosi> knome: if you have time/energy for it, go for it
<ochosi> i'm happy to ship them if they work, but i know i won't get to maintaining them anymore
<knome> ochosi, would you need more than that to be willing to ship them?
<knome> what we really should do...
<ochosi> well generally i want them to work
<knome> well maybe this is more for #shimmer, but anyway
<ochosi> so if they look bad in other places even with those patches, i would say we'd have to fix it
<ochosi> pleia2: cool!
<knome> see the point where greybird started getting those gtk3 updates
<knome> and try to port them to the other themes
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> converting to SASS might work good for that kind of things
<ochosi> that's how we did it up to now
<ochosi> but it's not getting easier
<knome> so is that the only thing missing?
<knome> or are we missing other things?
<ochosi> gnome is using sass, so using sass as well makes it easier to remain in sync
<ochosi> honestly, i can't tell yet
<knome> but sass comes with some extra dependencies
<ochosi> 3.14 has just landed and i have only just started to really explore it
<knome> sure.. but regarding greybird vs. albatross/bluebird, is that the diff?
<ochosi> sort of
<ochosi> the themes aren't 100% the same
<knome> of course
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-20
<bluesabre> ochosi: poke
 * ochosi pokes bluesabre back
<bluesabre> I think you mentioned that the catfish ugliness was a greybird thing?
<ochosi> possibly
<ochosi> haven't had time to look cause now i have to test panel stuff, which i only build in my dev env
<ochosi> which is (weirdly) 14.04lts
<bluesabre> and, if greybird is now gtk 3.14 friendly, want to give a point release?
<ochosi> i do, but i'm not sure it's all done yet
<bluesabre> I can also drop other themes as you request from shimmer depends
<ochosi> yeah, i'll give knome some time to think whether he really wants to maintain those three
<knome> maintain... don't know, but i could give them a bump at least
<knome> and tbh, i'm mostly interested in albatross only, so it might be just that
<ochosi> bluesabre: parole's osd buttons look weird now unfortunately. should check how they look with adwaita to be sure who's at fault...
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> will try to work on that a bit this weekend
<ochosi> i'm not sure i'll get to much before christmas
<ochosi> and then after christmas it's not looking much better until the 3rd or so
<bluesabre> planning to be around for a change, hopefully those plans don't change for me
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> which is why i tried to push some gtk-theme patches today
<ochosi> but synaptic's toolbar-buttons still have weird white borders :'(
<bluesabre> I'll roll out another release then
<JackFrost> screenshooter will roll soon too it looks.
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> and taskman
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<knome> ok, off as well
<knome> nighty people!
<Noskcaj> Are we going to have adwaita-icon-theme or gnome-icon-theme for vivid?
<shnatsel> Any tips on how to reach tumbler (XFCE thumbnailer) devs? xfce.org seems to be down
<shnatsel> I want to run a fuzzer on their various thumbnailers, but for that I need a way to invoke and monitor them more or less directly. The regular daemon architecture won't do.
<Noskcaj> shnatsel, #xfce-dev on freenode, direct emails, or filing bugs
<shnatsel> thanks!
<Noskcaj> Incase it's not been mentioned, transmission has some theme issues with the new gtk too
<JackFrost> That's alright, deluge is better anyway. :>
<elfy> ochosi: ok - got those updates late yesterday - http://i.imgur.com/JkArMFn.png  http://i.imgur.com/ussMCJ4.png 
<elfy> I can't tell if what you think is skewed is or isn't still :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that's how it's supposed to be
<elfy> cool - I can forget about that now then :)
<ochosi> synaptic is not 100% fixed yet unfortunately
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> I guess the priority has to be our *packages* 
<elfy> and I would just assume that things are supposed to look like they do - unless it was horribly broken of course :)
<bluesabre> good morning guys
<ochosi> nah, but the synaptic bug points to a general issue
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
 * ochosi is about to sneak out again
<bluesabre> ofc :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> pushed another fix to greybird quickly
<ochosi> and i'm out.
<ochosi> ttyl
<ochosi> elfy: that one should fix synaptic and co
<bluesabre> seeya
<elfy> ok ochosi - I'll keep an eye out for that - have fun 
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<elfy> keeping busy then :)
<bluesabre> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-21
<bluesabre> ochosi: made some progress on the xfpm/light-locker integration, should wrap up tomorrow.  lines 14, 308, 1914 (sorry, editor configured to drop trailing spaces) http://paste.ubuntu.com/9586039/
<bluesabre> be back in the morning
<JackFrost> ubiquity has been merged.
<ochosi> JackFrost: yup, received the email. good stuff.
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmm, those indenting changes really make that diff hard to read
<ochosi> bluesabre: i wonder whether we could put the ll stuff in a separate file, sort of a "plugin" for the settings dialog
<ochosi> it is quite massive and messy already
<ochosi> i guess we should clean up all those callbacks and replace them with xfconf-binds, then it'd be easier on the eyes...
<ochosi> also, have you talked to anyone regarding ll1.5.1 yet?
<ochosi> in terms of getting it uploaded i mean
<bluesabre> ochosi: can't do binds, the logic is special
<bluesabre>  autolock is disabled if screensaver timeout is 0, etc
<bluesabre> I'll clean up the diff later, and get rid of everything that was because of trailing spaces
<bluesabre> ochosi: cleaner diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/9587493/
<ochosi> bluesabre: i wasn't thinking of light-locker stuff for binds, but all the other cruft of xfpm's settings
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> ochosi: yep - synaptic looks better now :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: this should do it... please give it a spin.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/9589233/
<bluesabre> let me know if you have any questions, I should be aroundish
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> only here for a few mins now
<ochosi> hmpf, parole's buttons still don't look nice. meh.
<ochosi> but yeah, good to see that at least synaptic is back to normal
<ochosi> elfy: ^
<bluesabre> ochosi: have not uploaded the latest greybird commit yet
<ochosi> yeah, but elfy uses -daily
<bluesabre> gotcha
<ochosi> and i just looked myself too to be sure
<bluesabre> and the diff I gave depeneds on the light-locker 1.5.1 package currently in vivid
<ochosi> have you talked to anyone about getting ll 1.5.1 to the archive?
<ochosi> woot? already uploaded?
<bluesabre> should be
<bluesabre> !info light-locker vivid
<ubottu> light-locker (source: light-locker): simple session-locker for lightdm. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.0-0ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 45 kB, installed size 938 kB
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> thought I did
<ochosi> i thought you uploaded it to the staging PPA only
<bluesabre> maybe it got frozen along the way
<bluesabre> seems that way
<bluesabre> was pretty sure I uploaded it, will do that next
<bluesabre> anyway, also in staging
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> wasn't sure anymore whether it was part of the packageset
<bluesabre> that one should be
<ochosi> humm, also need to write that patch for xdg-screensaver 
<bluesabre> you or me?
<ochosi> i guess either of us
<ochosi> it should be a single elif in "detectDE"
<ochosi> with a dbus-testcall to see whether light-locker is around
<ochosi> and then run the screensaver_freedesktop part
<ochosi> that should pretty much be it anyway
<ochosi> gotta take off now
<ochosi> ttyl
<elfy> not looked at parole tbh - I always end up forgetting to reset the blank screen
<bluesabre> alrighty, I'll see if I get to it
<bluesabre> ochosi: let me know once you've had a chance to test my patch out, then I'll package it for -staging for wider testing before pushing it to the archive
<ochosi> bluesabre: looks good in general, small issue i encountered: the first checkbox (enable ll) doesn't seem to have any effect. locking with ll still works
<ochosi> so apart from that it's ready i guess
<ochosi> oh, plus, drop the security-frame from the system-tab if the ll tab is there
<ochosi> otherwise that locking option is there twice
<ochosi> i mean lock on suspend
<ochosi> g2g
<bluesabre> ochosi: ah, good point. the issue there is that we do not kill the running light-locker instance
<bluesabre> I'll try to find a nice way to do that
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-14
<akxwi_dave> Bug 1525955 reported for LTS to LTS upgrade per http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/108565/testcases/1635/
<ubottu> bug 1525955 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager fails when updating from 14.04 to 16.04 at Installing new version of config file /etc/cron.daily/upstart" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1525955
<knome> flocculant, do you have an idea where i could see all the CGI tasks - for all teams?
<flocculant> by all teams you mean other than ubuntu? 
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> well i meant everything, but balloons replied already :P
<flocculant> k - wouldn't have a clue about everything anyway :)
<knome> fwiw, https://codein.withgoogle.com/tasks/?sp-organization=4568116747042816&sp-status=2&sp-is_exhausted=False
<knome> but as you can probably figure out yourself, the UI actually makes it hard to see "everything"
<flocculant> yea
<knome> flocculant, pingy?
<ochosi> hey
<ochosi> flocculant: how's the google codein going?
<knome> hey ochosi
<ochosi> and hi knome 
<knome> i was just invited as a mentor and am planning a task for reviewing our contributor docs
<ochosi> hey nice
<bluesabre> evening knome, ochosi 
<ochosi> oh hi
<knome> heya bluesabre 
<ochosi> sorry to be on my way out again when you're arriving
<bluesabre> how are you guys doing?
<knome> lol
 * knome is watching tv series online
<bluesabre> ochosi: hibye
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> good good, but pre-christmas is leaving me with a little less time than before ;)
<ochosi> how're you?
<bluesabre> doing all right
<bluesabre> nice quiet weekend where I accomplished nothing
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> gotta make up for it this week
<bluesabre> and get that webapp done
<knome> \o/
<bluesabre> maybe work on some other code soon too
<knome> nice
<bluesabre> flocculant and dave have been stacking the bugs
<ochosi> how nice of them :)
<bluesabre> so thoughtful, much appreciated
<knome> hehe
 * knome likes the appreciation circle
<ochosi> bluesabre: any news on "Get shimmer-themes back in the Xubuntu packageset"?
<bluesabre> ochosi: none that I have heard, hoping to start stabbing about that soon
<ochosi> that'd be nice
<knome> you could poke the kubuntu guys again
<ochosi> i'm not around during the main stabbing hours
<knome> iirc, they said they'd get rid of the dependency around december
<ochosi> great, thanks knome!
<bluesabre> yup
<knome> with some new release of whatever was depending on it
<bluesabre> breeze
<knome> yes
<ochosi> i'll assign that workitem to you then and you can hand it over to bluesabre once you're done with the poking
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> just assign to bluesabre 
<knome> he can do the poking too :P
<ochosi> nah, he has bugs to fix!
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> :|
<knome> i have diapers to change
<ochosi> don't we all?
<bluesabre> busy busy people
<knome> no
<knome> not bluesabre 
<bluesabre> thats right
<ochosi> knome: that's hearsay, who knows!?
<knome> well unless his parents are using some
<knome> but i would think even then bluesabre wouldn't be the one to change them
<bluesabre> my excuses are limited to "didn't do it", "forgot about it", "zzz"
<ochosi> that last one has become my go-to excuse
<knome> :)
<ochosi> (but i still use the other two as well)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything interesting up?
<bluesabre> Unit193: nothing yet
<Unit193> Anything I can help with not horrible? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: saw Noskcaj was working on blueman merge
<ochosi> anyhow you guys, have an enjoyable $timeofday in $tz
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi 
 * ochosi -> "zzz"
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre> going to go prepare dinner, then hopefully get something done
<bluesabre> poke me if there is anything I need to do sooner than later
<knome> slickymaster, http://pad.ubuntu.com/GCI
<knome> slickymaster, check the bottom of the page
<knome> slickymaster, it's something i wrote up today
<slickymaster> give just a second knome 
<knome> no worries
<slickymaster> to rearrange my irssi
<slickymaster> knome, I'm assuming that that is going to be mediatized, right?
<knome> that too, and available in google code-in as a task
<slickymaster> hmmm, wasn't google code tasks already closed?
<knome> no
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> that was just the stuff for the start
<slickymaster> there's always someone from the around, so that won't, in principle, be an issue
<knome> from the around?
<slickymaster> + team
<slickymaster> yeah
<slickymaster> long day
<knome> what isn't an issue?
<slickymaster> in the case we get overwhelmed with students
<slickymaster> ;)
<knome> sure....
<knome> we can limit to certain amount
<knome> the default is one
<knome> i was thinking 10 total could do it
<slickymaster> knome, these tasks are tottaly up to the student(s) or are we defining them?
<knome> what do you mean?
<knome> the mentors add the tasks, then students can apply for those tasks
<knome> students do not write tasks
<slickymaster> last paragraph: "... where you can get further information on the task..."
<slickymaster> question answered
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-15
<knome> slickymaster, any other changes in addition to the comma?:P
<slickymaster> don't see any, knome 
<slickymaster> at least nothing pops to mind
<knome> mmk
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://appstream.debian.org/html/sid/main/issues/mugshot.html - https://appstream.debian.org/html/sid/main/issues/catfish.html
<bluesabre> yeah, need to fix that
<bluesabre> paths exist, but I have force https on all subdomains, and no cert for screenshots.
<bluesabre> so, breakage :(
<Unit193> bluesabre: I see you use StartSSL, not a bad choice for sure.  You could pop another one from them up, or perhaps use the new CA in town, but be aware they only last 90 days (supposed to use an automated system.)
<bluesabre> yeah, excited for letsencrypt
<Unit193> I personally like the 365 day certs. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> gmb was on there too, but not really "our" problem anymore.
<flocculant> knome: short pong for an hour
<flocculant> I wouldn't have 10 instances of students looking at the  cont docs 
<knome> flocculant, what would you have then?
<flocculant> 5 maybe
<flocculant> what are 10 people going to possibly do to change the cont docs? 
<flocculant> and you can get nick to add me as mentor too 
<knome> well, the thing is, we need different point of views
<flocculant> perhaps 
<knome> tbh, i'm not expecting anybody to *change* anything there
<knome> just read and comment on it
<knome> that's a very non-technical task
<flocculant> pleia2: while I remember - any word from Jorge or are we just going to go with plan a ?
<knome> yes please
<flocculant> knome: btw - if gci needs cont docs, pdf still not building for xenial, at least not on xenial
<knome> oh bah
 * flocculant checks ... 
<knome> the bug is still open
<knome> last activity 2 days ago
<flocculant> I know 
<flocculant> yup - double check tells me nothing new
<flocculant> and should we not have it so that make, builds both user and cont docs? 
<flocculant> or a reason not too? 
<knome> i think it does now
<knome> but mostly only think
<knome> i'll check
<knome> all: clean startpage user-all contributor-all
<knome> yes, both should be built with just 'make'
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> Firefox can't find the file at /home/wolf/Desktop/xubuntu-docs/build/contributor/C/index.html
<knome> is that an old bookmark?
 * knome builds to check
<flocculant> no - that's the result of trying to get to cont from startpage
<flocculant> definitely not building cont docs
<flocculant> and was up to date other than 2 .po's
<flocculant> have to make-cont<tab> 
<flocculant> unless of course it's building user, languages, pdf = fails so stops 
<knome> that sounds likely
<knome> but i'll double-check
<flocculant> Makefile:109: recipe for target 'user-pdf' failed
<flocculant> make: *** [user-pdf] Error 2
<knome> i believe make is supposed to stop when something breaks
<flocculant> yea - that seems to be the likely issue 
<knome> building the pdfs for me now...
<knome> yep, that's it
<knome> i cleared the color on the pad - the current text is now in gci
<flocculant> they built on xenial? 
<flocculant> knome: ack
<knome> this is wily
<flocculant> aah right 
<knome> so you're not getting to contributor because pdfs fail
<flocculant> I don't suppose a student would be xenial anyway 
<flocculant> yea - I just make then fail then make-cont... 
<knome> well, my intention *is* to get the docs built online
<knome> so they don't need to build
<flocculant> right
<knome> i thought about that first, then thought that it's a completely different task to begin with
<knome> and definitely not a beginner one
<knome> and we need the beginners here in a sense
<flocculant> yea
<knome> btw,
<knome> i got the tag "xubuntu" added to the "confirm bugs" tasks
<knome> now https://codein.withgoogle.com/tasks/?sp-status=2&sp-is_exhausted=False&sp-search=xubuntu should get all the xubuntu tasks
<knome> (...and some more...)
<flocculant> right
<knome> flocculant, slickymaster: re: number of students, we might want to fix some obvious things before sending a horde of newbies at the documentation, eg. the "getting started" chapter
<knome> (or just drop it if we don't have time to fix it, so it doesn't draw too much/unwanted attention)
<flocculant> knome: I'd ack dropping it for the moment 
<flocculant> meh - images didn't build 
<flocculant> seems no-one's did earlier today, lubuntu built just now
<bluesabre> good evening folks
<slickymaster> agree knome 
<slickymaster> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<slickymaster> end of another long day
<slickymaster> just relaxing a bit
<slickymaster> how about yourself?
<knome> was this the development or general chatter channel, i forgot?
<slickymaster> lol
<bluesabre> knome: :P
<knome> bluesabre, hello?
<knome> bluesabre, ...is it me you're looking for?
<bluesabre> knome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxRX6LXDpWs
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-16
<mozmck> I'm trying to use pkexec in a bash script with no success.  I have a script called "installer" that just has the command "dpkg -i *.deb"  If I use gksudo ./installer, it works great.  But gksudo is not installed in Xubuntu by default so that is not an option for me.
<mozmck> pkexec tells me it can't find ./installer  So I passed it the full path to the installer, and then dpkg says it can't find the deb files.  So I added a cd <location of files> in the ./installer script, and that didn't seem to help.
<mozmck> Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
<knome> mozmck, for starters, this isn't really the support channel
<knome> !pkexec
<ubottu> pkexec is a PolicyKit tool that allows an authorized user to run (graphical) applications as another user, similar to !gksu.
<mozmck> ok, which channel is?
<knome> #xubuntu
<mozmck> ok, thanks
<Unit193> I seem to be missing the link to delete a testcase, I realized technically I did http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/105604/testcases/1658/results
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, are you an admin there?
<Unit193> Of course not.
<slickymasterWork> hmm, that's odd
<slickymasterWork> because I am and I'm not seeing any delete option
<slickymasterWork> I only have an 'Edit' option
<slickymasterWork> flocculant ^^
<knome> slickymaster, maybe you are not an admin, just an editor or sth
<knome> Unit193, what exactly are you trying to delete?
<knome> Unit193, move upgrade from the core testsuite to the upgrade testsuite?
<knome> and tbe, i don't think there is a "delete" action, only disable
<knome> which is silly because now the tracker is full with disabled things
<flocculant> you can delete results - though they appear to just strike through 
<flocculant> Unit193: you've not got rights to do any of that - what exactly is it you want? 
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, but not testcases?
<flocculant> slickymaster: nope - there till the electrons stop spinning on the server 
<Unit193> flocculant: Right, I was just trying to change *my* testcase results.  After running my usual, noticed the 'core upgrade', which technically fits mine better as I don't have xubuntu-desktop.
<flocculant> aah right - you should be able to edit that 
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> don't appear to see any from you
<flocculant> oh nvm - assumed you were talking about core :p
<flocculant> do you see a 'pencil' by your result - if you do you might be able to do something - if not I would need to delete it 
<Unit193> OK, I'll have to check.
<Unit193> But, I did upgrade one hardware to Xenial! \o/
<Unit193> Plymouth even seemed to work...
<flocculant> woohoo
<flocculant> Unit193: if you can't - add your new one and I'll nix the old one 
<Unit193> Ok, will do, have to head out now.
<flocculant> yep - have a good whatever :)
<Unit193> Yeah no, I'm helping someone go to the store, it'll be awful.
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> flocculant: no word from jcastro re: vps, and I haven't seen him around this week :\
<flocculant> k- kind of assumed that was the case or you'd have said something :)
 * pleia2 nods
 * flocculant guessed you'd say that too :p
<flocculant> I guess we'll want to move - pretty sure knome  wants to - and one more assumption being you'd want to see the back of it too 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-17
<bluesabre> evenin'
<knome> gullo
<bluesabre> hi knome 
<knome> eyyyy
<knome> what's up?
<bluesabre> knome: nm
<knome> :D
<krytarik> flocculant: We'll have images tomorrow again, btw.
<bluesabre> huzzah
<flocculant> oh good
<flocculant> krytarik - we've got one image built today ;)
<flocculant> without text when booting 
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> so we appear to be getting antiword and imagemagick installed with something today
<Unit193> cups-filters, part of the core task too.
<flocculant> ta
<Unit193> Those are hard deps, ooo2dbk is only recommended.
<flocculant> well it's definitely here 
<flocculant> get micah to set the size limit to 2Gb so we don't get surprised by things being added :p
<Unit193> At this rate? 2G for core Ubuntu, and another half gig on top for the stuff we actually want...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> we ought to get the warble updated at cdimage.ubuntu.com/us - currently still says at least 192MiB of ram 
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-cdimage/mainline/view/head:/lib/cdimage/tree.py#L550
<flocculant> so else:  desktop_ram = 256 on line 554?
<knome> flocculant, 512 obviously :P
<knome> or just drop the xubuntu-specific poopie
<flocculant> knome: except we say 256 ... 
<flocculant> To install or try Xubuntu within the Desktop/Live DVD, you need 256 MB of memory
<flocculant>  You will need at least 192MiB of RAM to install from this image.
<flocculant> that code makes no sense to me anyway talking of feisty to maverick :p
<knome> flocculant, hmm, where do you see that 236 mentioned?
<knome> err, 256
<flocculant> The server at xubuntu.org is taking too long to respond.
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> hooray
<flocculant> http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/requirements/ - at the top :)
<knome> ah
<knome> yeah, it seems like xubuntu.org is laggy
<knome> poked #canonical-sysadmin 
<knome> known, affects other stuff as well
<flocculant> anyway - I assume that the 192Mb thing can get sorted when we get around to dealing with the oversize warning too
<flocculant> right
<knome> probably so :)
<knome> i can handle the website once i can login...
<knome> that is, if we want to change anything in there
 * knome sighs
<flocculant> I'd not bother tbh - the site is right - it's the download page which is ood now
<knome> ok
<knome> aha..
<knome> i needed to check/uncheck archived
<knome> when i do a hard refresh, i see all archived items again
<knome> or tbh, any refresh
<flocculant> not seeing anything odd here
<knome> weird
<knome> and wrong channel too :P
<flocculant> yea :D
<flocculant> krytarik: so "We'll have images tomorrow again, btw" you were half right :p
<krytarik> Hah, so you actually meant it that way. :P
<krytarik> Literally, that is.
<flocculant> yea :)
<krytarik> flocculant: I see no activity on that one today yet - right?
<flocculant> krytarik: sorry missed that - what do you mean?
<krytarik> I mean no one higher up seems to be aware of that yet.
<flocculant> who knows
<flocculant> though I suspect they know that ubuntu 32bit also failed to build
<flocculant> hi drc 
<drc> Hey flocculant.
<flocculant> how's things 
<drc> Better than you...Saw you were bothered by first world problems :)
<flocculant> ha ha yea :D
<drc> My dishwasher still works...in fact she's still at work.
<flocculant> ha ha 
 * drc moves to -ot
<flocculant> drcplanning an IRC package testing with bells whistles and toot sweets after the new year btw
<flocculant> stupid tab 
<drc> Is this a IRC Package testing "class" or...?
<flocculant> well - I expect it will end up like that 
<flocculant> bit like the basic test one - but a bit more specific and me asking for questions :)
<flocculant> don't really like 'copy/paste things sessions' 
<flocculant> shall start advertising it before xmas just as a 'this is coming up ... '
<drc> Don't mind cut-n-paste introductions, but yeah, a bit more interaction is nice.
<flocculant> then actually run it fortnight before the first beta milestone
<flocculant> yea of course - some has to be - but better if people join in 
<drc> d'accord
<dkessel> just fyi: i am having trouble with my IRC bouncer suddenly not being able to connect to its database...
<dkessel> therefore i am now back to using irccloud, which means i will automatically disconnect every two hours if i am inactive.
<flocculant> dkessel: hi :)
<flocculant> and okey dokey 
<flocculant> I know that's a pita
<dkessel> hey flocculant :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: you haz mail 
<flocculant> dkessel: how's things? 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-18
<dkessel> So, will there be a meeting today?
<krytarik> dkessel: Unless you read "2016-02-18 - Xubuntu Team 17:00UTC" as being today, as I did, not that I know of. :P
<dkessel> krytarik: lol. Indeed, I did
<krytarik> :D
<knome> ochosi, i just figured a way to hide inherited emblems
<knome> ochosi, it's a dirty hack, but: ln -s /dev/null emblem-icon-name.svg
<knome> ochosi, and looks like by creating emblem-icon-name.icon with the content "[Icon Data]\nDisplayName=Icon's name" you can get nicer names in the emblem dialog
<krytarik> [16:04] <Laney> barry: hi, did you notice the ubuntu i386 images have been failing to build with an error from axi?
<krytarik> [16:05] <barry> Laney: yep, cyphermox pointed me at the build failure.  it's a 32bit thing, but i hope to have time today to investigate
<krytarik> flocculant: â
<flocculant> ta :)
<krytarik> Otherwise, I'd suggest dropping software-center now already. :P
<flocculant> :D
<Unit193> krytarik: Would be nice, but some people would likely be surprised that there's "no way" to install applications in the dalies.
<Unit193> [16:14:06] < barry> cyphermox, Laney: LP: #1527745 - i have to run out for an errand right now but i'll work out a fix when i get back.  should be quick
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1527745 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "plugin/sizes.py crashes on 32 bit system for big packages" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527745
<cyphermox> Unit193: of course you can still install apps
<cyphermox> replace software-center with something that AIUI still works and predates it; synaptic.
<Unit193> cyphermox: I'm aware, I've never activly used USC. :P  Sorry for the ping.
<Unit193> Yeah we used to install synaptic.
<cyphermox> ;)
<cyphermox> that was not at all a shameless plug because I've touched synaptic in the past
<cyphermox> still, I think barry or Laney will fix the issue and things should work soon
<Unit193> I'm actually just glad it gets some love every so often, I still find it useful every few months or so.  Shows origin better than others.  Otherwise I find apt/apt-get/apt-cache work great.
<Unit193> Yeah, that's what it looked like.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-19
<flocculant> images both finally boot - straight to desktop
<amerigena> Any way to upload screenshots of Xenial core video errors in live session?
<krytarik> amerigena: Sure, like you usually would.
<amerigena> Yes. I know how to take the screenshots. But where would I upload them? Launchpad?
<amerigena> Email them to someone?
<amerigena> Post them on a image hosting site?
<amerigena> Anyhow, 16.04 core doesn't seem to like this chipset : 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
<amerigena> 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
<amerigena> Have received the same dithered video on two identical and otherwise functional Optiplex 380 PCs, live and post-installation
<krytarik> amerigena: Just follow the usual bug reporting procedure then.
<amerigena> OK
<amerigena> Would this be considered an Xubuntu bug or upstream?
<amerigena> Does a bug have to be tested on both a flavor and Ubuntu before it's reported?
<krytarik> It's a general issue.
<krytarik> I.e. not flavor-specific.
<amerigena> Thank you
<krytarik> Sure.
<pleia2> knome: hi, want to talk about the recent xubuntu-contacts email?
<knome> pleia2, sure, is later today ok?
<pleia2> sure, I'm around all day
<knome> i'm eating next, then probably spend some time with wife (or not) and then i'm free
<pleia2> enjoy :)
<knome> ta
<Noskcaj> Is there any reason light-locker hasn't been merged?
<knome> pleia2, ping
<pleia2> knome: hey
<pleia2> sorry, went to lunch
<Unit193> Never be sorry about food.
<knome> no problem
<knome> and that
<knome> pleia2, want to take it to a PM, or just herE?
<pleia2> knome: maybe PM
<knome> pleia2, so, let's talk about the contributor docs here
<pleia2> ok
<knome> let me dig up a few things first
<pleia2> woo, shiny https://xubuntu.org/products/ updated with the flash drives linked
<knome> pleia2, http://pad.ubuntu.com/GCI
<knome> pleia2, there we have a google code-in task for reviewing our contributor documentation
<knome> first, comments on the wording etc welcome
<pleia2> ah
<knome> second, can we get docs.xubuntu.org updated
<knome> this can be a temporary setup
<pleia2> yeah, what source?
<knome> the regular docs package
<knome> but we need one change there
<knome> ...which we don't want in the bzr branch
<knome> let me write you down exactly what you need to do
<pleia2> oh, I see there's a contributor-docs/ there now
<pleia2> make inside that dir, or something else?
 * pleia2 patience
<knome> pleia2, there you go
<pleia2> where I go?
<knome> see the end of the pad mentioned
<pleia2> oh, hah
<knome> and if you are too lazy to rename a dir, we can remove the s from the url :P
<pleia2> it lives in build/contributor/C/
<knome> what does?
<pleia2> the .html files
<knome> right...
<knome> so actually, we need a symlink there too
 * knome facepalms
<knome> i don't mind if the clean url is a link to a messy url
<knome> for now
<knome> or we could probably link to the messy url
<knome> depending on how many characters we have left :P
<knome> ooh, lots
<knome> like 180 :P
<pleia2> heh
<knome> before the last changes, had 4
<knome> so... just tell me where you have it
<pleia2> right, so just putting C/ in contributors/ makes broken links (moved it there for a moment)
<pleia2> but it links to common-libs anyway, which we don't have
<pleia2> we only have libs/images
<pleia2> I guess the libs-common is a new thing?
<knome> yes
<knome> it's in your newly-baked build directory if you look *very* closely
<pleia2> ah, yeah
<knome> (basically with libs-common we are able to share the CSS for the startpage, the user documentation and the contributor documentation)
<knome> so we only need to maintain one set \o/
<pleia2> ah, that would be good
<pleia2> so should I upload this libs-common?
<knome> yes, without it, there is no css
<pleia2> much better
<knome> ok, so is this ready now?
<knome> or you still doing fixes?
<pleia2> I think it's ready
<knome> oki
<knome> then i'll get the ball rolling on getting the task published
<pleia2> great
<knome> what's with the social media stuff?
<knome> +up
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-20
<pleia2> could you be more specific? :)
<knome> #ilovexubuntu preparing
<pleia2> ah, no work done on that yet
<knome> should we schedule a meeting?
<knome> or if you feel super motivated to work on it now, that works as well
<pleia2> have other tasks today, will have to pencil in some time later
<knome> okay - i will be most likely in bed by then
<pleia2> like, not today later :)
<knome> ah :)
<knome> any idea on more specific time?
<pleia2> not sure, drowning in book deadlines at the moment
<knome> mhm
<knome> let's try to meet impromptu then
<pleia2> k
<knome> something like 10pm-> UTC is usually "free" for me
<knome> in local time, think "two hours earlier from now"
<pleia2> k
<knome> or maybe 9pm on some days
<knome> so if you happen to be around about then, you can try to ping me
<knome> (well you can always try, but likely with worse results...)
<knome> pleia2, also updated the front page with usb flash drive button
<knome> (and cleaned up the widget a bit)
<knome> i'm starting to think i might want to OCD about the button placement
<pleia2> neat
<knome> so they would always be bottom aligned in the container
<flocculant> knome: just quickly does ^^ mean the new docs will land soon? 
<knome> flocculant, referring to which one? :)
<knome> flocculant, re: the discussion with pleia2, it means we will have the google code-in stuff prepared
<flocculant> well the docs talk ... 
<knome> flocculant, but now that you say it, yes, we should have covered the actual docs too
<flocculant> so the cont stuff will go live soon? and land in xenial too? 
<knome> pleia2, ping; when you have time, can you build the 16.04 docs on docs.xubuntu.org with "make" - this builds the contributor docs too
<knome> pleia2, i will also prepare the branch for the subdomain root
<flocculant> is that fixed now? 
<knome> yes, everything should work - but none is uploaded yet
<knome> and when we do the next upload to repository, the contributor docs are in too
<flocculant> oh yea - xenial builds except on xenial - I forgot we did that discussion :p
<knome> do we want one push there before a1?
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm not sure xenial builds are done on xenial machines though
<knome> so it's not a problem - yet
<flocculant> ack
<knome> at some point around trusty or sth i remember hearing some build machine running lucid
<flocculant> I would say push as soon as we can - I need to deal with the x.org/contributor/qa page when the help is live 
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> let me elaborate:
<knome> i will make sure the online docs have contributor stuff ASAP
<knome> do we need them ASAP in the xenial builds too?
<knome> because those are two different things
<flocculant> yea - I'd like to see then building on xenial asap
<flocculant> because
<knome> oki
<knome> oh, building
<knome> that's the third thing
<knome> :D
<knome> when i say xenial builds, i refer to the documentation being shipped with the ISO
<flocculant> I can't say - 'do exploratory in xenial' run a vm of wily to read the qa docs :p
<flocculant> yes - I assumed that's what you mean
<flocculant> t
<knome> ok
<knome> bluesabre, ping; please prepare a new upload for the docs ASAP
<flocculant> and when it's built it'll land as update for existing xenial installs? 
<flocculant> and yes I assume it will then :D
<knome> yes, it should do that
<Unit193> knome: Doesn't it not build in Xenial?
<flocculant> Unit193: no - pdf issue 
<knome> Unit193, yes, but are the packages built for xenial on xenial machines?
<knome> i mean no, it doesn't build
<flocculant> I assume Unit193 means locally ... 
<Unit193> Ummm, that's kind of the point, yeah..
<knome> well then we should get that fixed
<knome> sigh
<flocculant> Unit193: make errors because of pdf - so cont docs don't build
<knome> one thing we could do for a small while is disable pdf building
<knome> so we could get the package to build for now
<flocculant> this might be a hard way of doing this - not sure, but could we not build docs, build cont docs, build pdf 
<flocculant> so it errors when the docs are built
<flocculant> or disable pdf's :)
<knome> that would be possible too 
<flocculant> s/when/once
<knome> but i don't know, it feels kind of dirty :P
<flocculant> heh
<knome> i mean fixing the order
<flocculant> yea - it felt a bit dirty writing it :D
<knome> hehe
<knome> and ultimately, i don't know what happens if make reports it fails
<knome> it might just report FTBFS and the package isn't updated
<flocculant> right
<knome> Unit193 might know if that's how things go
<flocculant> Unit193: still bug 1515361 afaik
<ubottu> bug 1515361 in fop (Ubuntu) "Fop FTBFS on Ubuntu Xenial (synced version in -proposed)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515361
<knome> so disabling pdf would mean that we can get the package to build without errors
<flocculant> yep
<knome> but it also means we need to patch the package to *build* the pdfs later
<flocculant> right
<knome> kind of crappy situation
<knome> that's trivial though
<knome> it's a one-line change
<flocculant> and we do need to do something because pdf is useful imo
<knome> it has its merits and i would definitely like that it builds now that we have it, but fortunately it's not critical
<knome> it's not like our docs do not build at all
<flocculant> yea
 * knome knocks wood
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> oww ... 
<Unit193> flocculant: apt list | grep installed,loc
<flocculant> and then? 
<Unit193> Anything come out?
<flocculant> oh yea
<Unit193> 1. That many?  2. fop one of 'em?
<flocculant> http://pastebin.com/3cYc2zYQ
<flocculant> fop isn't no
<flocculant> Unit193: fwiw http://pastebin.com/8NeKmv9v
<Unit193> Ah, thanks.
<Unit193> Test build is taking a while, Ubuntu mirror decided to give me sloooooooooooow speeds.  At least I have a few things to try in the meantime.
<flocculant> :)
<knome> 2
<knome> oops
<knome> vacuuming
<knome> next the pc
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> So does it count if I get the docs, contrib docs, and pdfs to build?
<flocculant> it does if you did it on a xenial install :p
<bluesabre> keeping an eye on the docs status
<bluesabre> let me know when we think they're ready to roll
<bluesabre> and then Unit193 or myself can upload them
<Unit193> Will have to disable PDFs.
<bluesabre> k
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-20
<pleia2> knome: we need to track down ochosi for the council article :)
<pleia2> pesky holidays, everyone drifts off
<pleia2> knome: the website article looks good to go though
<knome> yeah
<knome> and good, i'll publish in a moment
<knome> unless you want to schedule for a better time?
<knome> for social media stuff and all
<knome> or is now a good time, i don't know
<knome> :)
<knome> pleia2, ^
<knome> just hopped in and out of the grocery store so couldn't reply :P
<pleia2> knome: hah, we can release in like 14 hours or so
<knome> so like 13UTC?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> ok, scheduled at 13UTC precisely
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> I will tell my calendar to remind me to g+ and fb it
<knome> and twitter possibly
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-21
<flocculant> seems the installer doesn't start from the Install option on debian menu
<flocculant> mm and no try/install dialogue
<flocculant> sits waiting after the Remove media thing after installing
<flocculant> but it does at least install :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ^^ no time to see if it's just xubuntu 
<flocculant> bbl
<akxwi-dave> cheers flocculant , will take a look
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  It not just us.. Unity is the same,,#
<akxwi-dave> reported 1651716
<akxwi-dave> #1651716
<krytarik> LP bug 1651716.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1651716 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "17.04 boots direct to live desktop, no option to Try or Install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651716
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: cheers - always good when it's not just us - we can blame cyphermox :D
<flocculant> though likelihood is he already knows ;)
<akxwi-dave> true.. lol
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - website changes look good - thanks :)
<flocculant> while I think about that 
<knome> goodie
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-22
<flocculant> indicator-panel worketh once more
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> spoketh too soon
<flocculant> could I get some confirmation on bug 1652134
<ubottu> bug 1652134 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Unable to hide (or make visible) individual indicators" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1652134
<knome> oki, i'm here ;)
<flocculant> knome: so if we had a proposal section - what would we want? 
<flocculant> dependencies
<flocculant> changes to size?
<flocculant> some sort of pros and cons?
<flocculant> cos now I found a word missing - I could do both mp for both :p
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/xsd.html#xsd-seeds-composition-package-selection <- basically that
<knome> in other words, same guidelines go for replacing packages as for new
<knome> plus of course in the case of replacing, you'll want to compare
<knome> but i think that's implied
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> really then Package Selection should include Proposals ?
<flocculant> at least logically in my head
<knome> i'm kind of meh on that
<knome> what extra could it bring to the table?
<flocculant> somewhere to point people 
<knome> isn't proposals for replacements and new packages always related to the package selection?
<knome> point them to the package selection section? :)
<flocculant> yes 
<flocculant> well yea - now I see that bit - I can see that it's much of a muchness
<knome> :)
<flocculant> still got a missing word though :p
<knome> well, do an MP
<flocculant> yea ofc - or I could just do some random pastebin thing like kryten :p
<knome> no please
<knome> he's done a dozen of those for the ubuntu community wordpress theme
<flocculant> hence the discussion re proposals - would have done it all together 
<knome> and i've processed like one of them
<knome> ...
<flocculant> knome: have you ever seen me do that ;)
<knome> no, but who knows what 2017 brings ;)
<flocculant> change I hope - horrid year ;)
<flocculant> knome: anything massive happening to contributor docs I don't know about?
<knome> nope
<knome> nothing at all planned
<flocculant> ok - I might take the chance while akxwi-dave is doing qa duties to just run through the cont stuff like I have the user docs then
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> mhm always sounds like 'you can if you want - can't see the point personnaly' :p
<flocculant> though I know it's not :)
<knome> heh, sorry for that
<knome> and indeed it is not
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> no need for a sorry :D
<flocculant> after this long I know ... 
<knome> sigh @ clients
<flocculant> :)
<knome> oh he is here already
<knome> :P
<flocculant> \o/
<knome>       |
<knome>      / \
<flocculant> Spass: basically, if you have the disk space - do a dual boot with 17.04 
<flocculant> you can be brave and let 17.04 have grub (like me) or install dev grub to partition rather than disk
<flocculant> then you can run either
<flocculant> and while I am brave (or nuts) I do also have a 16.04 install I can boot if I really have to
<Spass> Yep, hi all. I have an ability to dual boot, sure. On my laptop (Dell E6410 with NVIDIA graphics).
<flocculant> there is an enormous amount of qa docs that we've developed over the last few years - that should answer most questions
<flocculant> laptop testing is absolutely awesome - lots of team have laptops - but use them for work so are a bit shy :D
<flocculant> personally I hate laptops so don't test that 
<genii> But isn't the official laptop testing team finished for quite a while now?
<flocculant> hence we find locking/power stuff really late in the cycle :(
<genii> ( like, defunct)
<Spass> That's my small goal for 2017 - do something useful for Xubuntu community.
<flocculant> genii: really don't know
<knome> genii, laptop testing as in testing with laptops
<knome> but yes, the "laptop testing" thing is dead
<flocculant> Spass: if you started using the dev version more and more during the cycle that would be a huge gain for us - as you are in this channel
<flocculant> and hugely useful to the community too
<Spass> I could also test on my main PC "simultaneously"
<flocculant> I'm sure there are people out there doing the same thing - but we only find out those ones once we've released - at which point doing anything is much much harder
<flocculant> using dev xubuntu is how the rest of the team got a qa person who moaned all the time - then akxwi-dave joined - having 3 would be great :p
<flocculant> some things are generic - and we can't fix them
<flocculant> usually found in installation testing for instance
<flocculant> but the recent indicator-panel bugs I've found are because I run whatver dev version we are on
 * flocculant rambles when given the chance :)
<Spass> I understand. Well, I will install dev version on my laptop soon :)
<flocculant> http://dev.xubuntu.org/
<flocculant> has most of everything - check out the contributor docs - especially the qa ones
<flocculant> Spass: cool - just so long as you realise that I will either ask if you've done it - or get someone else to ask 
<flocculant> sorry if I hurled you a wall of words :D
<Spass> I'll do some reading and research about contributing and I'll reach to you guys.
<flocculant> awesome :)
<Spass> Some pretty busy days ahead. but later I'll have plenty of free time that I should use for something... useful :)
<flocculant> nice :)
<Spass> My English can be wobbly sometimes, sorry for that in advance. I'll try to not hurt your eyes.
<flocculant> Spass: either akxwi-dave or me are the best people for specific qa things - more general things - just ask, bear in mind that this channel is busy in stages
<Spass> I'll try to not interrupt meetings like I did while ago ;)
<knome> flocculant's and akxwi-dave's english is messy sometimes... and they're british
<flocculant> Spass: no problem we have Finn's, Austrian's, Portuguese people and others who are worse at English - like the English :)
<flocculant> knome: I said that - but longer :p
<knome> :P
<flocculant> akxwi-dave and I type in dialects :D
 * knome types with keyboards
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> ali1234 doesn't - he sighs at me 
<flocculant> :)
<Spass> I appreciate and thank you all for your kind welcome. I'll try to be here almost everyday and I'll tell you when I'll be ready for some real work.
<knome> no worries or hurries
<flocculant> if only one could symlink a comment in a logged *buntu channel
<knome> hah
<flocculant> This would be my *current* fave ...
<Spass> But for now, my proposition from #xubuntu - I think that adding gnome-font-viewer would be nice. People who came from Windows may expect, that the OS has some kind of preview app for the font files.
<flocculant> oh oh my why why oh why do the CC forsake making signing the CoC  an easy task
<flocculant> mhall119: ^^
<flocculant> don't try hiding ;)
<JackFrost> They're trying to follow a model of using GPG, but a lot of users don't really have it or any other use for it.
<flocculant> following a model?
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> or mhm]
<knome> like many hockey players
<knome> :P
<knome> oh wait i thought this was -ot
<knome> oh well
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-23
<Spass> CET here (Poland), so time to sleep, thanks once more and see you later.
<JackFrost> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2016-December/035391.html Oh I didn't see that.
<flocculant> I did
<Spass> Is there an easy way to generate my PGP key under Xubuntu? Something like "Passwords and Encryption Keys" tool. I want to sign CoC on Launchpad.
<davmor2> Spass: seahorse will do it
<Spass> davmor2: Thank you, that's the one.
<davmor2> no probs
<knome> hey ochosi 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-24
<mhall119> flocculant: making the CoC easier to sign was a discussion we had like a year ago
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-25
<ochosi> merry christmas everyone!
<ochosi> sorry i was a little unresponsive lately, the time before christmas turned out to be extremely busy at work...
<knome> ochosi, did you see the mail from lyz?
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah, just need a few questions answered by you and then we can publish the xubuntu council announcement blog post, finally :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-18
<Unit193> I didn't help with that one.
<levissi776> âââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETypaqg: ali1234 micahg torv mcs_ Zeioth ochosi GridCube _mental1ta hggdh sorinello phthano ââââââââââââââ
<levissi776> ââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETojdry: sorinello micahg ali1234 Zeioth mcs_ GridCube ochosi phthano torv _mental1ta hggdh âââââââââââââââ
<knome> fun.
<Unit193> Yeeep.
<tacocat> the colorful box drawing chars are a nice touch
<knome> all that effort and they didn't manage to highlight more people
<a|ex542> âââââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETuufrelv: vinzv DalekSec bluesabre pleia2 ochosi ubuntulog sorinello flexiondotorg knome Unit193 andrzejr finsternis torv tacocat cyphermox ninetls ubottu paolo alynpost aaronraimist hggdh el 
<a|ex542> ââââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETlbbzufea: bluesabre ubottu DalekSec paolo akxwi-dave Logan vinzv a5m0 nanotube ninetls el mcs_ finsternis micahg flocculant J21 hggdh tacocat acheronuk SwissBot Zeioth nikow Unit193 phthano Noskcaj sak
<a|ex542> âââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETrkvkbbbx: dkessel DalekSec aaronraimist mhall119 paolo ninetls akxwi-dave acheronuk sorinello Unit193 a5m0 astraljava ali1234 flexiondotorg knome vinzv andrzejr ubuntulog phthano nanotube Zren finsternis Logan S
<a|ex542> ââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETnzvrrujlxp: ubuntulog nanotube sakrecoer ochosi meetingology knome ali1234 wxl akxwi-dave torv ninetls Zren Zeioth paolo SwissBot micahg davmor2_ J21 harrow mhall119 aaronraimist bluesabre DalekSec slickymaster ubottu pleia2 andrzejr Unit193
<a|ex542> âââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETmigaxkux: flocculant andrzejr meetingology yofel flexiondotorg phthano nikow a5m0 aaronraimist Zeioth pleia2 ninetls alynpost akxwi-dave Noskcaj sakrecoer davmor2_ cyphermox knome vinzv acheronuk slickymaster tacocat ubottu bluesab
<a|ex542> âââââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETlijhsmdsvu: Zeioth slickymaster J21 tacocat sakrecoer flocculant cyphermox paolo knome ninetls ubot9 bluesabre yofel ali1234 ubottu astraljava ochosi phthano GridCube torv nikow hggdh meeting
<flocculant> moderately annoying when your eyes are just acclimatising ...
<bluesabre> it... BURNS
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-power-manager 1.6.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-power-manager-1-6-1-released-tp50324.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bluesabre> Shew
<ochosi> this should make desktop users' lives much easier in 18.04 ^
<bluesabre> Time to get that where folks can take it for a spin
<ochosi> now i'll either fix up systemload plugin so we can also ship that in our LTS or actually look into gtk-theme-config...
<ochosi> i'm a little afraid of systemload plugin though, i think it'll be a black hole and suck in a lot of time
<ochosi> lots of odd design choices from what i saw
<ochosi> but whatever
<bluesabre> Time to make it a bit more standard?
<ochosi> well there's the settings dialog
<ochosi> for one
<ochosi> and tbh it's also a bit odd that you don't just add individual plugins for each of the settings (cpu, mem, swap, uptime), that'd mean you could actually re-order them...
<ochosi> even if it remains the same plugin
<ochosi> but i remember endless discussions about a "generic monitoring plugin" that led nowhere
<ochosi> so i'll try not to sink my time into that
<ochosi> i'd rather fix up some other component
<ochosi> -settings needs some more love (gdbus port iirc, async collecting or caching of theme colors etc)
<bluesabre> re -settings, some issues with the color collecting, similar to the pains with gtk-theme-config
<bluesabre> I think I stopped experimenting with it since everything was the same color as my current theme
<ochosi> maybe we should simply drop it
<Unit193> Define 'drop'?
<ochosi> the color preview in settings
<ochosi> alternatively you can create a homungous dialog that displays widgets in the themes' selection (i think i saw that sometime in unity or gnome)
<ochosi> but if parsing themes isn't reliable anymore, well, it's really not *that* important
<ochosi> just a nice-to-have
<Unit193> Aha, thought you were talking about dropping gtk-theme-config too again. Nice.
<bluesabre> could probably make a script with python to do the magic with it
<bluesabre> Need to think about it again
<bluesabre> Anyhoo, gotta run now, bbl
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i'm still not convinced we'll be able to save it. but i think now it's mostly a question of rewriting the css and to some extent the application...
<ochosi> (gtk-theme-config this time)
<Unit193> ochosi: And I'm just trying to make sure we fully take care of it, not just drop it from the seed (though yes fixing would be fantastic.)
<Unit193> (Eg, if we can't maintain it, drop from seed, Ubuntu repos, Debian repos.)
<ochosi> sure, anything else wouldn't make sense
<ochosi> hope we can get to that decision soon enough
<bluesabre> I am inclined to agree that we should port it to python for future maintenance
<ochosi> or: we should give ourselves a deadline
<Unit193> ochosi: FWIW, easier to push a new version than re-introduce.  So if it passes the deadline, would we just drop from the seed? :P
<Unit193> And while you're both here: Are we really going with introspection and glade support?  That'd be an increasing delta to Debian.
<bluesabre> I'd much rather we decrease the delta to Debian
<ochosi> glade is quite helpful though
<bluesabre> If we are using these components in xubuntu, somebody is using them in debian
<Unit193> ochosi: I can more easily live with glade than introspection.
<ochosi> hm, greping for :selected gives me about 150 lines in greybird... maybe it is do-able
<Unit193> (So, WFM.)
<Unit193> libxfce4util, libxfce4ui, garcon, exo(?), etc would all gather introspection delta. :3
<bluesabre> Let's convince corsac to move with them
<bluesabre> Why *not* include development ready libraries?
<bluesabre> gotta run for real now
<ochosi> yup, ttyl
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-19
<Unit193> Uhhh....Notifyd is clipped.
<ochosi> Unit193: this should always have been the case, it just never worked before... otherwise notifications can get reaaaaallllly loooooooong
<ochosi> (horizontally, not vertically)
<ochosi> with gtk2 there were methods to set a max width effectively, with gtk3 that doesn't work anymore, so it's not easy to just let the window vertically grow and leave it at the sam width
<Unit193> Maybe, but it is trimming them too short.
<Unit193> ochosi: In this case they're being trimmed very short, there's got to be something between "Scolls off the screen" and "Too short to be useful", right?
<Unit193> My patch makes it more agressivly wrap, but it still doesn't trim long lines, pango/gtk is weird.
<ochosi> yeah, i know it's weird
<ochosi> if you have a patch, feel free to submit it
<ochosi> ideally we can limit the width and offer increased height
<Unit193> Well as I said it doesn't precisely work.
<ochosi> how did you get it to "more aggressively wrap"?
<Unit193> ochosi: Too much so, but http://paste.openstack.org/show/HZwklr8Clt7YxTPLaNPk of course.
<Unit193> I mean, you know gtk and the thing better than I do, so you can do it much better than I can..
<ochosi> https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-notifyd/tree/xfce4-notifyd/xfce-notify-window.c#n215
<ochosi> the /2 is in fact a /60
<Unit193> Makes it shorter! :D
<ochosi> and the problem is the heuristic for determining the actual screen_width is flawed (i always knew) but trying to properly handle that is actually quite a bit of work :s
<ochosi> maybe some newer gtk functions allow for a better matching of character-width/pixel-density of displays etc
<Unit193> Anyway, as it is now it doesn't wrap at all, just trims.
<Unit193> I think I'll just drop gtk_label_set_ellipsize and call it a day.
<Unit193> ochosi: Either way, thanks for looking into it again.
<ochosi> sure, no worries
<ochosi> feel free to report it as a bug so i don't forget properly looking into it again
<ochosi> i was just frustrated with the pixel density crap
<ochosi> i dont even have the hardware to test such things
<ochosi> and i'm too lazy to read gnome shell code ;)
<Unit193> Gah...  Now I have to form a bug title and body that'll make sense to you later.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-20
<flocculant> !team | bug 1734147
<ubottu> bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 17.10 corrupting BIOS - many LENOVO laptops models" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734147
<ubottu> bug 1734147: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> respins for 17.10 will appear, updated our release note to make note of this
<flocculant> we'll need to do some testing and then release when the time comes
<flocculant> might be a idea to social media this 
<bluesabre> flocculant: wow, that's bad
<JackFrost> But oh so...OK, so not fun either.
<knome> ugh
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> immediate question is do we disable downloads - if nothing else we could do so from getxubuntu
<flocculant> or at least put some warning on that page
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<flocculant> re -release : 'investigation is still in progress of a runtime recovery of the issue' 
<ali1234> that's a nasty bug. why is it writing to the bios at all? the docs for the driver say it is set to read only by default. accidentally writing anything seems like it should be quite unlikely
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-21
<flocculant> bluesabre_: so - what do you want us to do - other than say something on release note, funnily enough someone commented in #x yesterday about it
<flocculant> note the ubuntu download page https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
 * flocculant thinks we should do the same
<flocculant> I posted on facebook about it now - and answered someone who's possibly affected
<flocculant> we really should be more proactive on this sort of thing :|
<flocculant> apparently I posted on some other Xubuntu fb page ...
<flocculant> pleia2: any idea what https://www.facebook.com/groups/424769327667974/ is?
<sorinello> is there any way to recoverr your laptop from this ?
<bluesabre> flocculant: I agree that we should display some warning, probably more visibly than ubuntu does
<bluesabre> knome: can you make it happen? :-)
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: please let me know if you need any more info for https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=884587
<ubottu> Debian bug 884587 in engrampa "engrampa: Drop unused dependencies for lighter installation requirements" [Wishlist,Open]
<bluesabre> flocculant: this is what you were looking for https://www.facebook.com/xubuntuusers/
<sorinello_> or at leas how do I find out if I am using that driver which is supposed to be blacklisted ?
<knome> bluesabre, make what happen?
<knome> done, i think
<pleia2> flocculant: nope, news to me (though admittedly, fb is not really my jam)
 * pleia2 joins anyway
<pleia2> at least, trying to join :) they make you answer questions that have to be reviewed by an admin to join
<pleia2> ah, they let me in ;)
<knome> apparently that bug does not affect my thinkpad 13
<knome> which is something
<knome> i tweeted the warning
<knome> bbl
<pleia2> is it worth a message to users and devel mailing lists too?
<pleia2> (not that we have much of a role here, maybe just users)
<flocculant> bluesabre pleia2 - I know about the users one - I'm admin there - will just need to watch which one I'm posting in :D
<pleia2> yeah, I'm on the users one too (and totally don't look at it, because I'm bad at my xubuntu job)
<flocculant> pleia2: but I thought I took that from you cos you didn't like it :p
<pleia2> yeah, but I should probably stay aware of our social media thingys
<slickymasterWork> I think you just remained with G+, pleia2 
<slickymasterWork> which you also dislike :P
<pleia2> :D
<flocculant> any nastiness I'd let you know anyway :p
<pleia2> to be fair, G+ is hard to use when I'm traveling (which is a lot) because it's not great on slower connections
<flocculant> bluesabre: not sure how we could display warning more visibly - they've disabled 17.10 download ... 
<slickymasterWork> because of LP 1734147, flocculant?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 17.10 corrupting BIOS - many LENOVO laptops models" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734147
<flocculant> yup
<slickymasterWork> right 
<flocculant> I've been rabbiting on about it in here for 2 days ;)
<slickymasterWork> just come across it today :P
<pleia2> ^ that's what I was suggesting a users mailing list post for
<flocculant> you didn't see the team ping then slickymasterWork :p
<slickymasterWork> nopes, went to Lisbon Tuesday nigh just arrived today morning
<flocculant> pleia2: ohhh - m/l ... I thought you meant users fb page :D
<slickymasterWork> haven't yet went home, so haven't checked my irssi session
<pleia2> flocculant: yeah sorry, context switching
<flocculant> doing it now :)
<flocculant> ish
<flocculant> and done
<pleia2> thanks flocculant :)
<flocculant> np :)
<ochosi_> bluesabre: is switching to xfpm 1.6.x planned for bionic in the near future? would be nice so i can get some testing from ppl and feedback whether there is still stuff i need to fix in xfpm before 18.04
<ochosi_> currently it also doesn't seem to be part of any of our PPAs
<ochosi> flocculant: also fyi ^
<ochosi> (ok ok, it's part of "daily builds", but even there it seems wrongly tagged as 1.6.0)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-22
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, pretty sure xfpm 1.6 is going to be included
<bluesabre> I think Unit193's concerns have been resolved
<flocculant> ochosi: ack
<flocculant> ochosi: while I am more than happy to test it doesn't explode - nothing here to be able to test lid closes etc
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah sure, just basic testing is ok too
<ochosi> wb Unit193 
<bluesabre> Unit193: any more concerns with xfpm 1.6.x?
<Unit193> Thanks.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not really used it since, certainly not the new one.
<flocculant> ochosi: you know tooltip on power plugin says Computer on a dekstop?
<flocculant> ochosi: also not sure when this occurred but whisker plugin icon appears to have shrunk 
<ochosi> flocculant: it always said "Computer" afaik. also doesn't seem wrong ;)
<ochosi> it should say something else if the display device (aka the device shown in the panel) is e.g. a bluetooth mouse
<ochosi> indeed, surprising (whiskermenu)
<ochosi> i can check, i see the same here now, seems to have happened in a recent release
<ochosi> seems whiskermenu changed something, would have to check the code though
<ochosi> so not greybird's fault as far as i can tell
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-23
<flocculant> ochosi: well a laptop is a computer and so is a smart phone :p (main reason for saying was I'd not noticed before so thought it was something new)
<flocculant> and re whisker - ack :)
<ochosi> flocculant: i've been using 1.6 for so long i dont know if it's a change by heart. but at least i believe not
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant, yeah, I think the "Computer" string has been there for a while
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hiya flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: that bios bug is a bit nasty :p
<flocculant> glad it's not some xfpackage :D
<knome> oh
<knome> didn't you hear it's actually caused by xflocculant
<flocculant> hi knome 
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> woohoo
<knome> hello flocculant, bluesabre 
<flocculant> good for something then :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> the xflocculant package prefills duplicate bug reports with swear words
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> how christmas-spirity!
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, does it also draw elliptical circles on boot?
<flocculant> knome: it does all that and more
<flocculant> reporting bugs on that package installs any media player that can be found
<knome> make sure you don't install xflocculant-bad let alone speaking of xflocculant-ugly
<bluesabre> oh boy!
<knome> the bug reports can get really nasty if you do that
<flocculant> then finds bugs in them and reports those as duplicates
<bluesabre> hahaha
<bluesabre> great stuff
<knome> the xflocculant-good package isn't exactly R either
<flocculant> there is no xflocculant-good package ...
<knome> haha
<knome> i think i meant PG though
<knome> of whatever
<knome> those letter ratings are WEEEIRD
<flocculant> yup
<knome> just put the age number on the box
<bluesabre> just confirmed
<bluesabre> E: Unable to locate package xflocculant-good
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha ha
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<pleia2> knome: mind if I reboot the dev server for a new kernel?
<flocculant> pleia2: saw the e-mail - tia :)
<pleia2> :)
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2, for the heads up on the server reboot
<pleia2> welcome
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> pleia2, go ahead
<knome> better do it before we launch the wallpaper contest
<pleia2> in progress
<knome> i'm trying to get the rest of the hacking on the wp plugin done today so i can push it to our dev server
<knome> yup
<pleia2> all done :)
<knome> ta
<knome> pleia2, do you remember if we allowed lp/openid logins last time with the wallpaper contest?
<knome> i'm pretty sure we did, but want confirmation
<knome> and when i say allowed i mean did we force that
<pleia2> I don't remember
<knome> ok
<flocculant> knome: no we did, or yes we didn't :p
<knome> :P
<flocculant> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-02-17-22.00.log.html
<knome> wall of text, sigh ;)
<knome> fortunately i don't need the info bit now
<knome> thanks for digging it up, i'll read it when i need the info :P
<flocculant> kind of about 22:07 - we're talking about lp login and some wordpress openid plugin, which wasn't quite qhat we wanted
<flocculant> all that aside - openid is often a pain - I've tried it and 'ubuntu' credentials didn't work at least once
<knome> yeah, it can be wonky
<knome> but tbh, if the alternative is to make people register "yet one more account", it's boo
<flocculant> then don't expect logins 
<knome> but spam?
<knome> nah, that's crappier
<flocculant> but for how long ...
<knome> how long what? spam?
<flocculant> contest 
<knome> i thought we intended to keep this contest open for months
<knome> so... no, it's not realistic that we open it for everybody
<flocculant> not long then
<knome> eg. we let people upload any kind of images on our server
<knome> and we will publicly display them with no moderation
<flocculant> logging in won't stop that
<knome> no, but it will definitely slow t down
<knome> it*
<flocculant> nope
<knome> it will, it did the last time :)
<flocculant> you don't know that - you don't have anything to compare it with - first time for us :)
<flocculant> anyway - I'll likely be the only voice wanting to make this easy for the community - so I'll say no more ;)
<knome> i want to make it easy for the community, but not easy for the spammers
<knome> i know we can't really get both
<knome> so i'll err to the side of caution and make it a bit harder for the spammers :P
<knome> fortunately this is on a server we can administer so we can adjust quickly if we start to see some crap
<flocculant> well that's not quite true - you want to make sure it's only for people to put up their own content
<knome> again, nobody outside the team submitted work that wasn't their own
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> so this is only limiting how much the team would have had word in what they started voting from
<flocculant> and if team hadn't - how many contributed - off the top of your head number - less than 5 or so iirc
<flocculant> anyway - not letting me draw me in to this :D
<knome> probably, but it would have been a more serious "community" contest
<knome> ;P
<knome> pleia2, we have that "old" sticker stock
<knome> pleia2, "do we want to" give it away as prizes?
<knome> eg. let's get done with those old stickers
<pleia2> sgtm
<flocculant> lol
<knome> if we seem to have a sensible amount of submitters, we can send one to each
<knome> or treat the winners with a big bunch
<knome> whatever :)
<pleia2> ok :)
<flocculant> knome: might be worth preparing the ground with some social stuff for it - before it's actually live
<knome> flocculant, absolutely
<knome> flocculant, though it doesn't really matter if the contest is open january 1 and we start playing the drums a week after
<knome> as long as it's open for a long enough time for everybody to take part
<flocculant> I guess so
<knome> but yes, we'll do the social media stuff too obviously
<knome> and blog article
<knome> all but one TODO cleared from the code
<knome> which is really POSTPONED
<knome> haha, old wordpress
<flocculant> thanks for working on it
<knome> no problem
<knome> and of course
<knome> i want this to be as smooth as possible - as do you
<knome> let's update that wp instance today
<knome> hmm
<knome> it would help if i had the correct setup there
<knome> i didn't break anything! i didn't break anything!
<knome> hooray
<knome> as a prize for myself, i'll go iron a tablecloth...
<knome> bbabl
<knome> https://contest.xubuntu.org/help/
<knome> ^ that says it all
<pleia2> :D
<knome> do we have any reason to prefer CC-BY 3.0 over 4.0?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-24
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunarx-python 0.5.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunarx-python-0-5-0-released-tp50378.html (by Adam Plumb-2)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-17
<Unit193> bluesabre: That doesn't seem like the correct reaction, tbh.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I did notice that kubuntu-desktop/kubuntu-full seem to depend on it. Don't see anything else that would obviously make it work in the other desktops. http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ckMtZMDc2J/
<Unit193> Yeah, they seemed to be the only ones.
<brainwash> jbicha: do you know where to move this bug 1801629?
<ubottu> bug 1801629 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-core needs to depend on cryptsetup and lvm2 or 'apt autoremove' will make a LUKS+LVM encrypted root partition non-bootable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801629
<brainwash> it appears to be something new in 18.10, and so far has been confirmed to affect xubuntu and ubuntu mate
<brainwash> probably other flavours too (minus kubuntu which already depends on those packages)
<jbicha> brainwash: you should try to escalate that with the Foundations team
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-18
<Unit193> Debian #916727, #916726
<ubottu> Debian bug 916727 in ftp.debian.org "RM: xfce4-wmdock-plugin -- ROM; unmaintained upstream" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/916727
<ubottu> Debian bug 916726 in ftp.debian.org "RM: xfce4-hdaps -- ROM; unmaintained upstream, hardware deprecated" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/916726
<Unit193> Anyone use xfce4-sensors-plugin, gigolo?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Status update on xfce4-screensaver, plox?
<bluesabre> Unit193: other than it works and Corsac doesn't want it?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> There's a few patches to make it faster that I haven't applied yet
<bluesabre> Haven't had Xubuntu feedback for it yet
<Unit193> Very little PPA usage, it'd seem.  Faster you say?  OK.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Checking if there's anything I should know before pushing for Universe.
<Unit193> (Eg, "Eh, we'll stick with LL for this release")
<bluesabre> I think we can move forward on pushing it to universe. While there hasn't been Xubuntu feedback, there has been testing in other Linux spaces and it's working for folks.
<Unit193> OK, I'll just slap your name on it and hope for the best, then! :>
<bluesabre> hah
<bluesabre> 1/2 of the ubuntu devs see my name, "Oh no, that guy... :\"
<Unit193> Unless you intend to apply patch and release.
<bluesabre> Actually, yeah, lemme get a new release out this week with the patches I have.
<Unit193> No rush.
<Unit193> https://loki.unit193.net/cgit/users/unit193/xfce4-screensaver.git is what I'll be working with/what I am working with.
<bluesabre> Looks like you're behind a release :)
<Unit193> Yeeeeah...You PPA'd it and I procrastinated. :D
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre Couldn't find xfce4-session 4.13 anywhere in our PPAs, any chance to get it to QA Experimental for easier testing?
<ochosi> i could also do a release of it, since some patches went to master since the last release i guses
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-taskmanager 1.2.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-taskmanager-1-2-2-released-tp52313.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
<graf-baratheon> guten Abend 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<graf-baratheon> Kann mir jemand bei der Tastatur in Ubuntu helfen ? 
<graf-baratheon> ich kann keine Ã¤t Zeichen setzen, es kommt immer Q  
<brainwash> !de
<ubottu> In den meisten Ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuche bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Einfach "/join #ubuntu-de" eingeben. Danke fÃ¼r Dein VerstÃ¤ndnis!
<brainwash> this here is not a support channel
<graf-baratheon> thank you 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-19
<Soid> Hello
<knome> hello
<Soid> Me gustaria unirme al grupo de xubuntu y colaborar en su desallo
<knome> Soid, english only please :)
<ochosi> !es
<ubottu> En la mayorÃ­a de los canales de Ubuntu, se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol entre al canal #ubuntu-es; escriba " /join #ubuntu-es " (sin comillas) y presione intro.
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hiya
<Soid> I do not speak English but I understand it because of the programming
<knome> Soid, your english looks just fine
<Soid> and what I'm looking for is how to help with the development of this operating system
<knome> great!
<knome> you mentioned programming, is that what you would like to do or maybe expand to something else..?
<Soid> Well I do not know everything that implies the realization of an SO
<knome> of course not and i wasn't meaning to imply you should
<knome> code-related stuff includes (a little) programming, bug fixing and packaging for the most part
<knome> you could also write documentation -- or help translate the documentation or shipped software to your own language in case they aren't fully translated
<knome> putting the OS technically together we also have the artwork stuff
<knome> and outside that there's a lot going on with marketing, and web stuff; we maintain our website code and a lot of other assets/code around
<Soid> Before I can tell you that I want to be exact I would like to know and understand everything that this system and its development has, I am a web developer and I work in the fron end
<knome> great :)
<knome> our website runs wordpress and a custom theme
<knome> if you do anything with WP, you'll know that 5.x is out with gutenberg; we haven't made the switch yet...
<Soid> Well I'm old fashioned I like the direct development to lung say in Venezuela, if e worked with WP, Joomla but sincerely pieso that is not the same as grab a notepad and place code directly
<Soid> How can I connect with pidgin to this channel ???
<knome> sure... i understand. but custom code is hard work to maintain
<knome> (and other reasons, like known CMS's let our use canonical's infra and still get easy access to our assets) 
<knome> it's a loooong time since i've used pidgin, but you need to connect to the freenode irc network (chat.freenode.net) and then join #xubuntu-devel
<Soid> +Look, I've designed a way to maintain a complete system effectively. distributing the complete system when creating it in sectors and creating an initial file that unites everything. in this way php, controls the system and when updating you can do it by blocks and sections if it totally affect the system
<knome> well, at the moment we are not planning to migrate away from wordpress, but php knowledge is definitely still required to help with most of the stuff
<Soid> and what do you use for this channel ??? I will now update my laptop to Xubuntu 18.04 64bit
<knome> to connect to irc/this channel? irssi on a shell
<Soid> good friend we talk then I will disconnect to migrate the data to my new system I hope to continue talking with you. I am very interested in helping in this system that I sincerely LOVE.
<knome> nice to hear and we'll see later :)
<Soid> in xubuntu 18.04 I will install Irssi to see how I am new in this of the IRC channels
<knome> well tbh, irssi is not very useful on desktop machines - it's much better when ran on a server :)
<Soid> I will see how I contact you tomorrow
<soidperez01> Hi, I'm soid
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-20
<Unit193> I am Unit 193.
<Soid> Hello
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-16
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-18
<bluesabre> Once this (https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gtk-common-themes/merge_requests/19) is accepted and this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-characters/+bug/1828664) is fixed, snaps should look correct in Xubuntu! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828664 in gnome-characters (Ubuntu) "[snap] Broken link in theme directory" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Unit193> bluesabre: There's several "LiveFS xubuntu/bionic/$ARCH failed to build on $DATE", I'll discard them all tomorrow/today (18th) unless you object.
<Unit193> Where "several" == 11
<bluesabre> Unit193: let em rip
<Unit193> Is this known?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I have no idea. I feel like you've mentioned it in the past at some point.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-19
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 0.12.11 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-0-12-11-released-tp56792.html (by Sean Davis-6)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-20
<JackFrost> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdashboard/0.7.7-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> JackFrost: nice
<JackFrost> Except nobody uses it. :3
<ochosi> :)
<knome> hmm, so networkmanager cannot connect automatically to a wifi network if the band is not set to "auto"?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-21
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: catfish 1.4.11 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-catfish-1-4-11-released-tp56811.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.2.8 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-2-8-released-tp56815.html (by Andre Miranda)
