#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-05
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board | 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU | 9 Sep 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<sabdfl> night all
<sabdfl> thanks mako
<sabdfl> thanks elmo
<mako> night all
<Nafallo> night sabdfl 
<rbelem> sabdfl: night ;-)
<sabdfl> thanks everyone for coming and contributing
<Nafallo> night mako 
<nalioth> asta luego, y'all
<Mitario> goodnight everyone
<rbelem> sabdfl: nice to see you
<sistpoty> sabdfl: thanks very much for the server for REVU :)
<rbelem> good night all ;-)
<sabdfl> sistpoty: you're welcome
<mako> msg me if you have anything else i gotta pee and catch up on some other business 
<mako> in that order
<mako> :)
<rbelem> ian_brasil: iao...
<pef> what have I to do as a new member now ? I've already signed the coc
<ogra> mako, have fun with our passport :)
<ogra> your even
<rbelem> ian_brasil: vamos la'?
<nalioth> y'all be good
<ian_brasil> bora rodrigao
<rbelem> ian_brasil: blz iao... tou indo
<ploum> I missed the community meeting
<ploum> anyway, thanks for my acceptation
<ploum> And good night everybody ;-)
<cyphase> hey everyone
* nmsa is back (gone 00:02:01)
<nmsa> bye!
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-07
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board | 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU | 9 Sep 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 12 Sep 19:00 UTC:  Loco Teams Meeting | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<JaneW>  **REMINDER** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting here - NOW
<JaneW> hello
<ogra> hi
<ogra> looks like a rather small meeting today :)
<Treenaks> ogra: only you? :)
<ogra> Treenaks, and you :)
<ogra> oh, and flint
<ogra> hi flint 
<flint> Good Morning from DC...
<JaneW> hi flint
<flint> yes ollie, I bring greetings from elkner who is actually working!
<flint> Hi jane!
<ogra> yeah, we talked last night
<ogra> (my night)
<ogra> :)
<flint> no ollie, elkner whined at you and you were kind enough to listen....
<JaneW> ok so where are we
<JaneW> what happened with kamion's build in the end?
<ogra> JaneW, near our first completely working CD
<JaneW> define near...?
<JaneW> I like the completely working part...
<ogra> that one failed, but we'll go on building until its in shape... i wont stop nagging him today ;)
<JaneW> good ;)
<flint> we are about to start another server install.  The Idea is each server is the latest build.
<JaneW> we need to update the BreezyGoals page with progress
<ogra> its the only missing bit, the apps should all be ready, artwork has to move to main to get on the CD but thats trivial
<JaneW> for Matt et al
<ogra> yup, as soon as i can offer a Cd we'll move to green :)
<JaneW> great
<JaneW> so is the server side still a problem?
<flint> We were also beating up matt regarding inconsistencies in the install and live breezy builds.
<ogra> thats good...
<ogra> ha also urgently need ltsp feedback...
<flint> ...well it is even more complicated than that...
<ogra> needs even
<JaneW> ogra: the main inclusion reports https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<JaneW> I see one server package was rejected
<JaneW> one still needs work
<JaneW> any issues with either of those?
<ogra> mediawiki is dropped... i havent udate yet
<ogra> updated
<ogra> pitti didnt want it and mdz says we didnt make commitments at the summit, it was rather a survey in his eyes
<JaneW> oic...
<JaneW> I know a lot of ppl were *happy* at the prospect of it being in
<JaneW> and doesn;t moodle require it?
<JaneW> or am I confussed?
<ogra> so mediawiki is out of discussion... unfortunately moin is very hard to install with the current package
<ogra> moodle is standalone
<JaneW> oic, ok good
<ogra> wikipedia requires mediawiki
<ogra> so users have to install it from universe...
<ogra> its there, just not in the default install
<ogra> i had to cut down the sipped languages for now, else the Cd explodes...
<ogra> shipped even
<ogra> we currently have en, de, fr and es 
<flint> sorry interrupted by crane company representative...
<JaneW> can we get moin in?
<JaneW> we'll have to have a wiki...
<JaneW> sabdfl won't approve it without ;)
<JaneW> ogra: wasn;t it wikipedia that needs media wiki?
<ogra> if the CD turns out good, i'll see that we'll have a parallel DVD build... but i'd like to keep the CD
<JaneW> I am sure something needed it? or was it just our summit attendee's preference...?
<ogra> [14:08]  <ogra> wikipedia requires mediawiki
<flint> you are going to love this...  Implementation Plan: Phase 1 - Infrastructure, specifies in section 2,Web content filtering will be an essential component of Edubunt as a requirement.
<JaneW> ogra: es=? 
<flint> In Amerika all classroom sites must maintain filtering capability, it is federal law.
<ogra> JaneW, spanish
<JaneW> ok good, we need spanish :)
<ogra> flint, i cant do anything about it...
<flint> Elkner asked me to ask about this.
<ogra> flint, it has to wait until breezy+1 
<flint> so i asked...
<ogra> i told him yesterday.-
<JaneW> and Matt told you on monday afair
<JaneW> or one day tis week at any rate
<flint> sorry to whine about this, but who is designing/building this part, and could a proto be available.
<ogra> flint, i'll see if i can manage to get a default blacklist packaged 
<ogra> flint, thats me too, since nobody wanted the task
<flint> ollie, you is wonderful...
<JaneW> we simply had far too many 'essential' goals for breezy
<magnon> I would _guess_ that if it's federal law to have filtering (never heard about that) - it would have some requirements to the filter?
<magnon> which would be beyond a "default blacklist"
<ogra> sure
<JaneW> which were impossible to complete in the given time with the resources available
<flint> If I have time, and do not run out of money I would like to collaborate.
<ogra> but its more than we have now
<JaneW> flint: take a look at the deferred table on... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyGoals
<magnon> also, tuning a filter is an immense amount of work - I've had lots of problems with for isntance political information that students have needed, have been blocked out
<JaneW> flint: and those are thing we thought would be in - there's another list of things that were postponed upfront...
<ogra> flint, you can currently install squid and squidguard from universe, all thats missing is a blacklist package... we'll have to work out a good default cofiguration for breezy+1 and probably a gui
<flint> Jane, the reason that sabdfl has you around is you husband his resources as if they were your own.
<JaneW> magnon: exactly, we have had lengthy debates about this
<flint> dansguardian is also out there.  I am thinking a shell script...
<JaneW> flint: hey leave my husband out of this ;)
<ogra> flint, dansguardian is a bit problematic with its distribution license afaik
<flint> dear, i am the one they call skinflint.
<magnon> danguardian is license problematic, yes
<magnon> dans*
<flint> thanks for the tip about dansguardian.
<JaneW> magnon: do you have anything in your installations?
<ogra> flint, currently its not worse than a redhat system, i dont think their squidguard is configured by default...
<ogra> next release will be a lot better wrt content filtering
<JaneW> also this requirement seems specific to the states...
<magnon> I haven't been setting up anything but the firewall, my colleague has worked a lot with the filtering also when he worked at a school
<macgyver2> it also seems quite hand-wavy...first section: http://www.ala.org/ala/pla/plapubs/technotes/internetfiltering.htm
<magnon> but I think he used some dansguardian, as it was an on site installation
<ogra> having a proxy is halpful in any country... if you switch on filtering is up to you ;)
<magnon> they are always on a secondary box though
<ogra> but lets keep on topic, we dont work on content filtering this release anymore
<ogra> (except probably packaging a blacklist package for universe)
<magnon> last comment - dans guardian has a weird exception, it is released under the gpl for noncommercial use - distributing that in edubuntu would be hard
<JaneW> ogra: yes good point
<JaneW> let's stay current for now
<JaneW> we'll discuss this again when we have a 'completely working CD'
<magnon> good idea :)
<ogra> magnon, why ? we dont sell edubuntu and dont plan to
<ogra> yup
<ogra> which should appear within the next 30min
<JaneW> magnon: no money will change hand, except possiblu for support or customisation never for the code
* JaneW gets ready to pop the chanmpagne
<ogra> JaneW, keep it on ice...
<ogra> this takes time... i have to sync and test install it...
<JaneW> ogra: you like to keep us on the edge of our seats don't you ? ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i cant speed it up, sorry...
<ogra> get me a bigger line over here and i can test faster
<ogra> ... but the build report should already say something... 
<magnon> just assume a worst case scenario already :)
<JaneW> ogra: move to a bigger town :P
<JaneW> *joke*
<flint> we will stand by and build/test with your latest this afternoon ollie.
* JaneW keeps quiet (offended on person today already)
<ogra> JaneW, i'll probably do soon
<ogra> GF wants to buy a house...
<JaneW> s/on/one
<ogra> JaneW, i doubt you offended him :) 
<ogra> he wanted to go drinking
<JaneW> I think I did
<JaneW> but maybe he was just looking for an excuse ;)
<flint> on the other hand I am very hurt :^)
<JaneW> anyway so are we assuming today;s CD is good or not?
<JaneW> because that will determine what to discuss next...
<JaneW> flint: I know you'll cope ;)
<ogra> i do... i wont stop working on it with Kamion... so if he doesnt stop, it should be good to go today
<flint> zimmerman and elkner were conflicted on the installation documentation.  elkner liked ollie
<JaneW> ok, so the CD will be good, what then?
<JaneW> what's required next?
<ogra> mdz didnt like mine because it had an error in the beginning, but thats fixed long ago
<magnon> testing?
<JaneW> yes the docs, why didn;t Matt like olis install notes?
<ogra> getting the artwork on it ...
<magnon> and then testing^infinity
<JaneW> ok, well then there shouldn't be a problem
<JaneW> ogra: ok, and do you have all the artwork you need?
<JaneW> I have been soliciting for more, but no luck so far
<JaneW> and my own attempt was pitiful
<magnon> did you get any response from the badger guy?
<JaneW> yes once the CD is good TEST TEST TEST
<JaneW> magnon: no :((
<ogra> JaneW, edubuntu-artwork currently has a gdm theme, a wallpaper and splash... it sets the icon theme and gdm thme in the postinstall... thats all...i'll add other walpaper over time
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<JaneW> I mailed Sebastein Loss 4 times, to get some nice mascot stuff... but nothing yet.
<magnon> I thought you mentioned that he was going away?
<ogra> grmpf...
<ogra> the CD is done... it would be good if not someone had made python-epydoc uninstallable ... argh
<ogra> i dont even know what python-epydoc is .... grmbl
<flint> all hell is breaking out at my house!!!
<JaneW> fint: why?
<JaneW> ogra: problem?
<ogra> JaneW, easy to work around with another rebuild.... but odd...
<flint> you would not believe it.  I can sound the all clear now...
<ogra> but http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20050902.2/report.html looks very good
<ogra> (note that i'm concentrating on i386 only
<ogra> )
<ajmitch> ogra: looking very good indeed
<ogra> ajmitch, if i remove epydoc its a release :)
<ogra> but i rather find out what breaky epydoc...
<ogra> breaks even
<JaneW> ogra: will you look at the other builds once i386 is behaving ?
<ogra> JaneW, sure... but most of this stuff will sort itself...
<JaneW> ora: good!? :P
<ogra> powerpc is missing the fixes from kamion...
<ajmitch> ogra: yes, strange, since py-epydoc installs ok here
<ogra> many errors there are inherited from ubuntu... 
<ogra> they just dont show up there, because we have other default packages
<flint> breezy is at least installing...
<flint> what i mean is you do not have to install hoary and upgrade any more.
<flint> Jane, on another topic, what is the edubuntu mafia doing in Montreal?
<JaneW> flint: drinking prolly ;)
<ogra> smoking too
* ajmitch puts his name down for Montreal :)
<ogra> ;)
<flint> ...what was that Argintenian drink?  I was thinking that with mcquillin and everyone there we (or maybe you) should think agenda. :^)
<flint> or am i jumping the gun?
<ogra> JaneW, Kamion means the CD (i386 at least) is good with the next build... i wouldnt start premature champaign orgys, but it looks like we'll be partially green this evening
<ogra> powerpc and amd64 have a size problem
<flint> how bad a size problem?
<ogra> <Kamion> ogra: amd64 is about 6MB over; powerpc is about 50MB over; i386 fits
<ogra> amd64 should be easy... i'll find something to drop...
<ogra> powerpc hasnt the installer fixes yet...
<ogra> so that might change
<ogra> jsgotangco, hey, how was thebeer
<flint> 50 megs is pessimistically 10 percent...
<jsgotangco> salut
<jsgotangco> its raining so hard i wasn't able to go out at all
<ogra> flint, as i said, there are fixes in the installaer part mising, Kamion didnt do the yaboot update yet
<jsgotangco> i had to be content with the cheap wine given to me 3 days ago
<magnon> does Edubuntu nescessarily have to hold the 1-cd limit?
<ogra> flint, so the 50MB might actually be smaller
<magnon> or is the discussion about Breezy in general
<jsgotangco> ideally, but not necessarily
<flint> the deal at the conference was that we could consider DVD.  Over to you Jane.
<ogra> magnon, we are going for a DVD anyway... but i'd like to keep the CD around
<magnon> well, going for a dvd wouldnt get you slaughtered for making a double cd set
<flint> I am still trying to get over it not fitting on a floppy :^)
<ogra> worst case i'll cut the CD down to english only with a language install optin over network
<magnon> at least not for Edubuntu, as for me that would be considered an "addon" with extra software
<magnon> ogra: may I suggest you include languages we know will be used a lot in countries that might not have very good inet access? :)
<ogra> flint, just develop a new and shiny copression algorhitm ;)
<flint> ...a 5.25" floppy!  Ollie, is there any magic compression that does character sets really well?
<ogra> magnon, we'll have *all* 90 langs on the DVD
<magnon> and then scrap things like german, swedish, danish on the cd
<jsgotangco> scrap german *gasp*
<flint> harsh!  
<ogra> flint,  i doubt it, thats why i said develop one ;)
<magnon> jsgotangco: you can download it :)
<flint> as they say in german "crap"
<jsgotangco> tell that to the german who is developing it right now
<magnon> :O
<ogra> magnon, i just ct down the langs anyway... we currently ship only en, de, fr and es
<magnon> jsgotangco: Norwegian isn't in the CD distro, but I'd be all for scrapping it if you included portuguese and spanish etc.
<flint> no the internationalization is a foundation of this org.
<ogra> s7ct/cut/
<flint> loose applications rather than language capability.
<flint> wait...why not esperanto?
<magnon> because noone talks esperanto? :)
<magnon> pardon, but I like being ignorant from time to time
<Treenaks> magnon: that's why it's needed in schools 8)
<magnon> :)
<ogra> guys, the DVD will have them all... no need for discussion ;)
<magnon> ;)
<magnon> ogra: our ancient servers dont have dvd-roms!
<magnon> *sue canonical*
<flint> how much are the language files in size?  
<magnon> we're obliged by federal law to use servers from the viking age to honor our ancestors
<flint> zimmerman indicated that on the distro they were like 50 percent of the payload.
<ogra> yup
<magnon> also, axe training is obligatory from age 8
<flint> ah, federal law rears its ugly head again
<jsgotangco> it'll fit in the dvd for sure but with our current size, there were a few times that the cd got overcrowded
<jsgotangco> lang packs are huge
<JaneW> sorry was lagged
<ogra> jsgotangco, i just have set the limit to 700 MB and its still to small for ppc and amd64
<magnon> but to be honest
<JaneW> sorry but we won;t actaully get any CDs or DVDs initially
<flint> zimmerman whined about this lang pack size issue...a lot!
<JaneW> we have not been given a budget
<ogra> even with only 4 langpacks
<JaneW> but we have to make sure they can d/l and be cut to CDs/DVDs
<magnon> will edubuntu at this release be used by people who aren't already somewhat proficient? as it's somewhat clear it won't be polished...
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco :/
<flint> the way out is that i386 is released on cd and amd and ppc are on dvd.
<ogra> i'll think about splitting in a install and a lang CD, but the DVD will requre less work...
<JaneW> magnon: lol
<JaneW> TROLL
<magnon> I'm trying to be realistic :p
<ogra> flint, either all or none... i cant split up by arch
<flint> we in DC love complicated unsatisfactory compromises... I see your point.
<ogra> flint, but having a additional DVD for i386 wont do no harm
<JaneW> flint: go it, it was a Mojito!
<flint> dvd was an option that sbdafl embraces, I still want the floppy option.
<ogra> flint i'll see what i can do...
<JaneW> ogra: I think that makes sense for the laguage CD to be an extension
<ogra> are you fine with a 600 floppy install ? 
<ogra> flint, ^^ ?
<magnon> to continue on my trollinig, I'll have to be leaving this incredibly constructive meeting in a few minutes :P
<JaneW> service the main languages on the first CD and the smaller langauages on the other, it will dramaticall reduce the number of second CDs required.
<magnon> *trolling
<flint> seriously, on the topic of floppy, we actually ended up trying to install breezy on a machine that had no bios boot for cd.  Remember the old rawrite boot floppy?
<JaneW> magnon: I meant a literal Norwegian troll btw ;)
<magnon> hehe
<flint> There is no troll like Norwegian troll...
<magnon> flint: please, don't mention floppies
<magnon> I hate them :(
<flint> doesn't everyone, until they are the only option, then we find love in our hearts.
<JaneW> flint: it's unlikley we'll ship a ~500 diskset in 5,25' floppy!
<magnon> kids steal floppies
<magnon> (true!)
<flint> na i am whining about breezy needing that option for really funky machines.
<jsgotangco> err guys is this a meeting?
<magnon> jsgotangco: up to several people are gathered here, speaking together, I'd say yes :)
<ogra> JaneW, but you can do nifty marketing stuff with 500 floppys :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it was, but you weren't here to control us...
<magnon> ogra: treasure hunt ^^
<flint> if ollie is getting an iso out the door, why slow him down?
<ogra> yeah
<jsgotangco> JaneW: understandable since i'm difficult to begin with
<JaneW> ok ogra you can go.. if you want to
<JaneW> jsgotangco: just slap me please
<ogra> flint, you can neither speed up nor solw down ... i'm totally depenent on our scripts
<flint> 500 floppies, we could do a mosaic, or a puzzle!
<ogra> slow even
<JaneW> jsgotangco: and then cheer up, and don;t be cross with me anymore
<JaneW> please
* jsgotangco evil grin
<JaneW> flint: frisbees!
<flint> the old saying is "if you want it bad, you get it bad" let them run...
<JaneW> flint: not hugely areodynamic though, but they fly ok, and take eyes out...
<flint> staple them together for clothing or shelter.
<flint> nasa likely will use them as a cost effective replacement for shuttle tiles...
<ogra> you can ship them different colored and tie them together like apatchwork blanket
<ogra> edubuntu quilt release :)
<flint> guys i just mentioned the old boot floppy, am i a bad man?
<ogra> flint, only in Kamions eyes (our installer god)
<flint> sorry s/guys/guys and ladies/
<JaneW> flint: you know you are
<JaneW> ok do we have anything else to discuss
<JaneW> which is actually relevant?
<flint> edubuntu class machines, being ltsp class beasts tend to have all the bangs and whistles including boot cds
<JaneW> flint: and you can d/l and span-disk copy to floppy if you so chose... good luck
<flint> the filter machines (code named "snow-whites" by me) are another story.
<ogra> who here needs/uses emacs in his/her classroom ? 
<flint> those are for a future release...
<magnon> ogra: I used to have it, but they would never run Linux
<ogra> flint, do you know if elkner uses emacs for teaching ? 
<magnon> used for musical education
<jsgotangco> err don't remove emacs please....
<ogra> its huge... it would make amd64 installable
<flint> he never uses it but, emacs is pretty flexable in size.
<jsgotangco> for the sake of free software zealotry....
<flint> xemacs is bigger than regular emacs
<ogra> yup
<magnon> what would free software be without zealots
<magnon> emacs sucks, btw
<magnon> :D
<flint> rms would not be pleased if we did not pay him some homage
<flint> word on that, but those that do are zealots.
<JaneW> ogra: ok lets get the build built and we'll be green by monday?
<JaneW> ogra: we must update BreezyGoals notes too
<ogra> JaneW, we'll be green with the next build 
* ogra crosses fingers
<JaneW> today?
* jsgotangco insists on emacs
<magnon> umm... what about letting RMS write a short story and place it linked on the desktop by default
<ogra> JaneW, foe i386 at least, yes
<ogra> i'll call out todays CD as milesone release i think
<JaneW> :)
<flint> labor day in Amerika.  Meaningless holiday since the unions have been busted by bush.
<ogra> jsgotangco, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<ogra> pick an alternative 
<jsgotangco> ahh
<flint> is emacs ok or do you need xemacs?
<ogra> jsgotangco, i need 50 MB for powerpc and 6 for amd64
<jsgotangco> errr why is there bluez
<ogra> flint, i'm a vi guy i dont need emacs at all..
<jsgotangco> can bluez you don't need that on a server
<ogra> jsgotangco, its in ubuntu-desktop its iherited from there
<ogra> jsgotangco, i have both, servers and clients
<jsgotangco> arrghh
<flint> ok lets not start all that again. :^)   Anyway, you are a vim guy.
<ogra> if you stumble about something obvious and big, tell me
<flint> like i said the elkner and I will be installing whatever iso we find monday.
<JaneW> ok, I must go fetch my boys
<ogra> JaneW, have fun :)
<magnon> I must go meet up with some friends that I almost forgot
<magnon> *hugs* :D
<flint> i swear he is daft.  He will take your distro and go production with it.
<magnon> I'll be back for uber testing on monday
<flint> the boys are most important jane.
<ogra> flint, i'll send an announcement to the ML if it i386 CD is done
<ogra> flint, it should be in a state where he can do that already... 
<flint> we will receive it, and download it courtesy of the Arlington OC-1.
<flint> damn I love a plan!
<flint> are we all out of here?  I am.
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i'll watch the CD building ...
<JaneW> magnon: deal
<JaneW> see ya in a few
<JaneW> *running now*
<flint> later.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-09
<klepas> moin
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-10
<Lathiat> Mon Sep  5 15:05:10 UTC 2005
<cyphase> hey everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-11
<flint_> hey jane!
<ogra> morning flint_ 
<flint_> hey ollie, I have been causing trouble and jane is supposed to come by and punnish me
<flint_> this could be REALLY fun to watch!
<flint_> (I wonder if she will charge me...)
<flint_> On a related note, do you remember Jonithan's last name and would you know his alias?
<flint_> That is Jonithan as in the Hilton and Jonithan show...
<ogra> he's highvoltage....
<ogra> i dont remember his last name...
<flint_> of course!  Thanks!!!!
<ogra> ithink carter, but i'm not sure
<flint_> You nailed it.  BTW the dreaded Elkner downloaded the ISO and is even as we speak copulating with it...
<ogra> hehe
<flint_> has he come whining to you about this yet?
<ogra> not yet
<flint_> 'tis early in this hemisphere...give him time... :^)
<ogra> but if he follows my instructions it should work without problem
<ogra> i eagerly wait for mdz to include my patch to ltsp, so we can get rid of the one needed dhcp restart...
<flint_> what sort of talk is that?  He is a teacher fer crissakes you cannot expect him to read of follow instructions!
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i knowhe read them before ...
<flint_> ok...
<ogra> but they are canged for the current iso :)
<flint_> I will look in on him later this afternoon.  
<ogra> changed too
<flint_> well, I guess jane does not see me as a target of opportunity, even with you here to watch :^(
<flint_> I are gone.. thanks for the good work!  Know that you are changing the world.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board | Sept 7 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU | 9 Sep 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 12 Sep 19:00 UTC:  Loco Teams Meeting | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<jelkner> JaneW: hi Jane
<Lathiat> Tue Sep  6 16:59:12 UTC 2005
<D13GU__> hi
<D13GU__> where i download edubuntu?
<\sh> oh ...
<\sh> 2 mins
<bddebian> Heya folks
<Lathiat> yoyo bddebian 
<Lathiat> i see your applying too :)
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> Lathiat: Aren't you already an MOTU?
<ivoks> 'evening
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ajmitch> morning
<Lathiat> bddebian: approved member but not for upload
<Lathiat> e.g. not much of one :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: avahi got it
<bddebian> Lathiat: Ah :-(
<ajmitch> s/it/in/
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<\sh> 20:00 UTC :) good evening gentlemen
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh i saw it
<ajmitch> so far we have MOTUs here
<ivoks> heh
<slomo> hi all :)
<JaneW> hi
<Lathiat> so who makes up the TB anyway?
<tseng> we have Kamion and Keybuk, maybe
<\sh> hey jane :)
<JaneW> hi \sh
<bddebian> Hello slomo, JaneW
<Keybuk> Lathiat: mdz, sabdfl and I
<JaneW> hey bddebian 
<ajmitch> hi JaneW, Keybuk 
<JaneW> hello ajmitch 
<Kamion> tseng: I'm not on the TB
<bddebian> Heya Keybuk
<Lathiat> Keybuk: righto
<tseng> Kamion: ah right
<JaneW> are we waiting for mdz?
<Keybuk> he says 10 minutes
<JaneW> can I jump in and do a quick BreezyGoals nag?
<tseng> Noooooo
<doko> JaneW: you already did ;-P
<tseng> :)
<bddebian> nag? :-)
<JaneW> since I think all/most goal owners are here?
* mvo waves around
<JaneW> hehe
<jbailey> JaneW: Nope, none of us here.
<JaneW> some of you have been amazing
<JaneW> others not so much ;)
* bddebian hides from elmo
<ajmitch> heh :)
<JaneW> *pointed look at jbailey*
* ivoks lurks
<JaneW> *cough* formal test plans *cough*
* siretart waves
<JaneW> so guys these WIP goals HAVE to move
<JaneW> are any of them still going to be in Breezy? or can I shift them to deferred?
<ajmitch> tseng: any word from Unfrgiven on the docs?
<tseng> ajmitch: none
<JaneW> I need to get a list going for UBZ, to see what;s still relevant for Breezy +1
<jbailey> FormalTestPlans is something I'm still working on.  It will need to be reviewed at UBZ anyway.
<jbailey> Since it''s not a completable task.
<JaneW> tseng: on 24Aug he told me he'd try to get something out by the end of the week
<JaneW> I assume he didn't manage?
<tseng> JaneW: he has told me that a few times, tbh
<JaneW> jbailey: ok, but we don;t have any for Breezy right?
<JaneW> tseng: erk
<tseng> JaneW: i didnt think it was a major task, but i can appreciate Real Life interfering
<bddebian> I don't see much happening with the apt-get.org stuff.
<ajmitch> we haven't seen him round much in recent months
<JaneW> jbailey: so can I move to deferred, and mention that some work is already done?
<jbailey> JaneW: That's what I'm still working on this week.
<ajmitch> bddebian: that's because there's a few hundred packages to review
<JaneW> ajmitch: no, I had to mail him, I gather he;s been pretty busy
<bddebian> ajmitch: I know, that is why I am saying
<jbailey> I want to have an initial set of plans for after the preview release so that they can be reviews as we approach release candidate.
<ajmitch> bddebian: dholbach has put out a call for MOTUs to review & approve
<tseng> JaneW: mono was deferred, I imagine we will start over at UBZ
<ajmitch> bddebian: it'll be discussed at the MOTU meeting tomorrow, also
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well I was going to start on them but...
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK
<dholbach> bddebian: i will work on it - i just had to take care of gnome 2.12 with seb
<JaneW> tseng: really? even though it's green?
<ajmitch> tseng: mono itself is still in main?
<ajmitch> JaneW: packages got demoted to universe
<tseng> JaneW: well, its partially completed, partially defered :)
<JaneW> oic, is any of it in Breezy?
<tseng> yes.
<ajmitch> upstream packages are still a bit immature
<tseng> its all there, just not in main.
<JaneW> tseng/ ajmitch : ok I need details of what's completed and what's deferred, so I can split it in the table please; here, PM or e-mail (or you could edit the wiki, which ever you prefer)
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<tseng> JaneW: pm WFM
<ajmitch> ok, tseng knows status best
<JaneW> tseng: WFM...?
<mdz> good  morning, all
<ajmitch> morning mdz 
<JaneW> hi mdz
<bddebian> Hello mdz
<JaneW> oh Works For Me
<tseng> JaneW: "works for me"
<JaneW> got it thanks
<JaneW> tseng: your nick registered?
<mdz> Keybuk,sabdfl: here
<tseng> JaneW: yes ma'am
<mvo> JaneW: try "wtf" from the bsdgames packages ;)
<bddebian> heh
<mdz> Keybuk: will sabdfl be joining us?
<JaneW> tseng: cool, I am the official 'is your nick registered' monitor today
<JaneW> tseng: rescuer of stray PMs
<tseng> JaneW: lilo brownie point.
<JaneW> heh
<ajmitch> you sound like a manager :)
<Keybuk> mdz: pigs might fly ;)
<bddebian> Doh
<Keybuk> I'm not in London until next week, so can't bread-roll him
<Keybuk> and his mobile went to voicemail
<elmo> I've pinged him
<sabdfl> hi all
<bddebian> he's been around on -devel
<elmo> PHEAR MY SUMMONING POWAHS
<ivoks> hi
<bddebian> Oh, speak of the devil.  Hello sabdfl
<Nafallo> sabdfl: morning :-)
<sabdfl> >:-)
<mdz> a full complement
<mdz> on to the maintainer candidates
<ajmitch> ah, morning sabdfl 
<\sh> oops...did I miss somethign?
<mdz> \sh: pardon?
<JaneW> hi sabdfl
<mdz> we've just begun
<\sh> good :)
<\sh> sry
<mdz> Welcome, one and all, to this latest meeting of the ubuntu technical board
* JaneW quits 'badgering' about BreezyGoals
<mdz> is RajasekarKarthik present?
* ivoks is AnteKaramatic
<mdz> JaneW: *groan*
<JaneW> heh
<mdz> ivoks: aren't you already a motu?
<dholbach> mdz: he waits for key checking / account making
<ivoks> mdz: yes, sorry for interruption
<mdz> StefanPotyra writes that he can't attend the meeting
<bddebian> He is already MOTU no?
<\sh> his gf has birthday..prio 1 ,-)
<\sh> bddebian: no
<mdz> bddebian: you're next, then
<bddebian> Oh, that's bad.  He's sistpoty right?
<bddebian> moi?
<siretart> jepp
* bddebian is BarrydeFreese
<sabdfl> folks, which is the actual MOTU team? it can't be the team called "motu", since that has about 20 admins, and would blow away any upload security
<bddebian> Are we still doing the who/what/where thing?
<ajmitch> sabdfl: Ubuntu Development Team on LP
<ajmitch> iirc main is in the 'Ubuntu Core Development Team'
<mdz> sabdfl: "ubuntu development team"
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> thanks
<bddebian> Welcome ogra
<sabdfl> only person proposed in LP is Dmitri Alenitchev
<mdz> most people are still using the wiki
<ajmitch> I'm not sure if the team membership there is complete
<mdz> ajmitch: it definitely isn't
<mdz> not everyone has launchpad accounts yet, e.g.
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I've got to have my stupid hat on today, but where the hell on launchpad.net do I search for teams? :p
<mdz> should we take a moment to discuss procedures here?
<Nafallo> Keybuk: /people
<mdz> we would like to manage all of the member and maintainer data using launchpad
<Keybuk> is it not linked from the front page?
<ogra> mdz, yup
<sabdfl> mdz: can i restructure the page to point people at the right place?
<sabdfl> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/people/
<elmo> Keybuk: bottom lefthand portlet
<mdz> replacing the ad hoc mechanisms we have been using (email, wiki, etc.)
<Keybuk> elmo: that's "Top Contributors" on mine
<mdz> sabdfl: sure
<elmo> Keybuk: "people and teams" link
<elmo> in that portlet
<Keybuk> that's a hyperlink?!  who picked that blue colour
<elmo> (but yeah, I agree, it's not tres discoverable)
* Keybuk couldn't see that :$
<mdz> everyone who is applying for maintainership should begin by creating a launchpad account
<mdz> the launchpad interface allows you to propose yourself as a new member for a team
<mdz> which notifies the team administrator
<mdz> it also handles signing of the code of conduct, etc.
<mdz> and the data in launchpad will soon be used to manage upload privileges
<siretart> great news! :)
<Nafallo> yay!
<sabdfl> also....
<sabdfl> i think we have email@ubuntu.com for all members now :-)
<ogra> yay
<bddebian> wow
<dholbach> WOW
<sabdfl> elmo: confirm?
<dholbach> i mean  W O W
<elmo> yeah
<ogra> cool
<Nafallo> yay! /me tries ;-)
<ivoks> lot's of wow-ing...?
<dholbach> Nafallo: send me a mail please ;)
<JaneW> dholbach: your MOM just fell over ;)
<mdz> sabdfl: I think we also need to refine the membership vs. maintainership processes.  maintainership more or less implies membership, but we haven't been rigorous about how that should work
* ogra cheers for elmos great work
* ivoks cheers too
<ivoks> pss... for what? :)
<ajmitch> sabdfl: that's good to hear
* dholbach sniggers at JaneW 
<\sh> sounds good...good start to work on lp+voip+jabber integration ,-)
<mdz> sabdfl: what ID is used for the left hand side of the email address?
<bddebian> ivoks: member@ubuntu.com e-mail
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<ivoks> bddebian: heh, great
<slomo> hi mbreit :)
<elmo> mdz: person.name
<sabdfl> launchpad id, with some filters for expletives and things like "hostmaster" (ogra ;-)
<Nafallo> christian.bjalevik@ didn't work
<ogra> lol
<ivoks> :)
<mdz> ...
<ivoks> thegod and alike :)
<elmo> (as in 'person.name' in SQL)
<mdz> sabdfl: the one which is something like "name93" for many people?
<elmo> mdz: that's mostly canonical staff
<elmo> who are excluded anyway
* \sh is confused now
<\sh> first.lastname@ or launchpad id which is in my case sh-sourcecode ,-)
<sabdfl> mdz: technically, if we make the ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-core-dev teams members of the ubuntu-members team, it will Just Work (tm)
<elmo> \sh: launchpad id
<elmo> first.lastname isn't viable for a bunch of reasons
<mdz> sabdfl: right, but we have a process associated with membership too
<sabdfl> but that sort of bypasses the cc/tb separation
<elmo> (see the launchpad ml archives, if you care)
<mdz> so I don't think that's appropriate
<Nafallo> works :-)
<sabdfl> alternatively, the upload checks could verify the two separately
* robitaille tries robitaille@ubuntu.com and it works. thanks!
<ivoks> Nafallo: yup :)
<ivoks> elmo: thanks
<Nafallo> elmo: thanks master :-)
<\sh> elmo: ok..so sh-sourcecode@ubuntu.com would do it...
<ivoks> and others, of course
<siretart> hmm.. neither siretart@ nor reinhard.tartler@ works for me..
<mdz> sabdfl: ideally, membership would be a prerequisite for maintainership, but that makes the process doubly inconvenient
<sabdfl> yes
<elmo> \sh: dunno, try it and see
<Keybuk> we don't actually check that now, do we?
<mdz> there are definitely people who were approved as maintainers at the last meeting who are not in launchpad yet
<slomo> \sh: you can change your LP id ;)
<ajmitch> elmo: thanks, mail does work :)
<mdz> some of them didn't have accounts at the time, and didn't mail me later with their account info
<mdz> Keybuk: no; they're entirely orthogonal right now
<ogra> mdz, i think our teamlist is complete https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+members
<mdz> but it's silly for someone to be a maintainer without being a member
<mdz> ogra: why is everyone an administrator?
<elmo> ajmitch: not for long
<elmo> ajmitch: go sign a CoC on launchpad ;-P
<ogra> mdz, because everyone shall be able to change the team data..
<ivoks> :)
<sabdfl> ogra: that also means anyone can make anyone else a motu ;-)
<mdz> ogra: administrators add new members to the team
<ivoks> elmo: what about those that can't sign? due LP bugs...
<ogra> sabdfl, yup
<mdz> we should phase out the motu team and use ubuntu-dev
<ogra> mdz, yup
<elmo> ajmitch, alessio-fattorini, crimsun, dh, ivoks, jgotangco, jr, koke, sh-sourcecode
<dholbach> sabdfl: that's the motu love ;-)
<elmo> ^--- all need to sign CoCs on launchpad and become ubuntites
<mdz> ogra: I created ubuntu-dev based on the upload keyring
<\sh> elmo: argl..again?
<ogra> oh, ok
<ivoks> elmo: LP has bugs and I can't sign CoC :)
<Keybuk> wow, sabdfl actually signed the CoC at last <g>
<ajmitch> elmo: I just tried signing a CoC before..
<elmo> Keybuk: no, I quietly omitted the CC members who aren't ubuntites ;-)
<elmo> \sh: please
<elmo> ivoks: are bugs filed about it?
<Keybuk> elmo: like James Troup ... Ubunite! Not yet ?
<ivoks> elmo: yes
<elmo> ajmitch: please try again, and if it doesn't work, file a bug
<mdz> dholbach: metacity just crashed when gaim popped up; is that fixed upstream?
<elmo> Keybuk: hush you
<dholbach> mdz: will check
<mdz> sabdfl: didn't we agree to retire 'ubuntite' in favour of 'ubuntu member'?
<tseng> mdz: according to changelog, yes
<slomo> mdz: i've proposed me now for ubuntu-dev but i'm already motu ;)
<ivoks> elmo: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1979
<ogra> mdz, ubuntite<ubuntu member iirc
<sabdfl> mdz: different things, one is membership in a team, the other is related to CoC
<sabdfl> anybody can sign the CoC
<ajmitch> elmo: will name@ubuntu.com addresses be automatically whitelisted?
<ivoks> elmo: or 1972
<bddebian> Where is ubuntu.com mail delivered?
<elmo> ajmitch: *@ubuntu.com is whitelisted
<ajmitch> ok, good
* ajmitch will switch to that in uploads once CoC is signed
<elmo> bddebian: forwarded to your email address in LP
<bddebian> elmo: Ah, OK thx
<mdz> ogra: please have all MOTU who are not members of ubuntu-dev propose themselves
<ogra> oki
<mdz> I will verify against the keyring and confirm them
<elmo> ivoks: ok
<mdz> going forward, all new MOTU candidates  should apply through launchpad
<mdz> sabdfl is adding instructions to the wiki
* Nafallo added nafallo@ubuntu.com to his gpg
<mdz> for people who are here today, we'll do it as we go along
* bddebian didn't bounce but didn't get delivered either
<mdz> bddebian: you should apply for ubuntu-dev now
<bddebian> mdz: OK
<bddebian> done
<mdz> perfect
<mdz> so back to business
<mdz> we're considering bddebian as a new MOTU
<ogra> finally
* bddebian has to go now. ;-)
<mdz> ...again?
<mdz> ;-)
<ogra> hehe
<Nafallo> lol
<ajmitch> bddebian: stay here :P
* Nafallo glues bddebian to the channel ;-)
<ajmitch> ok, so where's the usual MOTU cheer squad?
<mdz> can we hear from his peers on the motu team about his work so far?
<ivoks> shy guy :)
<ogra> bddebian, say something
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> ogra: Am I supposed to do the past/present/future type thing still?
<\sh> excellent...he's very carefull, which is quite good :)
<dholbach> bddebian: what comes to your mind when you think about the last weeks with the MOTU crew :)
<mdz> bddebian: who has been sponsoring your uploads?
<ogra> bddebian, is someone the whole motu team would like to see as a valuable addition, even if he doesnt belive that himaself ;)
<bddebian> dholbach: Do you want an honest answer?
<ajmitch> mdz: he's done a lot of good work, both fixing packages, requesting rebuilds, and bug triage on malone
<dholbach> bddebian: sure
<\sh> mdz: most of the I did
<\sh> +time
<bddebian> dholbach: Frustrating
<ajmitch> mdz: I've sponsored some, as has \sh, dholbach & others
<sabdfl> bddebian: what's the top 3 things you'd like to get right in breezy?
<ivoks> he's just shy
<sabdfl> if you are go for motu?
<siretart> various ppl, everytime I look at UniverseUnmetDeps or GL Transition pages I see debdiffs from him
<slomo> i vote for bddebian ;) he does much good work, is as careful as possible and fixes really much stuff lately ;)
<mdz> sabdfl: you mean breezy+1, right?
<Nafallo> I've sponsored two :-)
<bddebian> sabdfl: UnmetDeps cleaned up, Transitions completed and Malone whittled down
* siretart sponsored several (5-6 i think)
<sabdfl> mdz: there's time for a wee bit o' polish in universe... ;-)
<sabdfl>  +1 for bddebian based on work to date
<ajmitch> at the rate he's going, bddebian will probably have those 3 things done in the next couple of weeks
<\sh> sabdfl: optimistic thoughts are welcome in our motu world ;)
<mdz> sabdfl: it's *cough* a bit late for fiddling with breezy ;-)
<ogra> mdz, not to late to finish the transitions ;)
<dholbach> mdz: ha... you say that - watch the motu crowd fix universe in the last weeks ;)
<bddebian> Really?  Then maybe apt-get.org stuff.
<mdz> main, that is
* bddebian looks for brownie points with sabdfl ;-)
<sabdfl> mdz: it's *universe* dude, live on the edge
<dholbach> haha... yes :)
<mdz> sabdfl: I get enough edge in main, thankyouverymuch
<bddebian> Ahh..
<ajmitch> sabdfl: we do like to try & keep things buildable & installable :)
<Lathiat> to boldly go...
<bddebian> It would be nice to work towards a little more structure in the MOTU world (IMO)
<ajmitch> bddebian: meeting tomorrow at 22:00UTC, put it on the agenda :)
<ogra> bddebian, go ahead :)
* bddebian says that as he requests syncs from elmo that break. :-(
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<ivoks> how to vote your self out by bddebian ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<sabdfl> any other input from folks on bddebian? mdz? Keybuk?
* ogra counts 25 packages in -changes :)
<mdz> I've seen quite a number of uploads from him carrying out transitions
<Keybuk> as have I
<ajmitch> ogra: those are only the 25 that have his name on them
<dholbach> bddebian: it's good to have you around and you'll surely help to get more structure in :)
<\sh> I'll really like to see bddebian as MOTU , cause he works hard and clean. Statistic says: 1 out of 30 packages had a missed build-dep..but this is good
<Nafallo> ogra: and that's only those with changelogs ;-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: ++
<ogra> ajmitch, i know
<ogra> a HUGE ++ for bddebian here
<ivoks> he's a good guy and he was around for few months
<jbailey> And he's always online. =)
<Keybuk> I've kept an eye on him the last few weeks, he gets a +1 from me now
<ivoks> noone could say anything bad about him
<bddebian> jbailey: You hush ;-)
<Nafallo> bddebian++
<sabdfl> mdz: 2-?
<mdz> +1 from me as well, based on observable effort and feedback from the team
<ivoks> he should just change nick :)
<sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard bddebian
<mdz> sabdfl: you voted?
<bddebian> ivoks: Aye, I should
<dholbach> YES! YES! YES! :)
<ogra> as first
<ivoks> bddebian: welcome! ;)
<sabdfl> mdz: ages ago :-)
<\sh> bddebian: finally u made it dude :) Congrats !!!! *HUGS* 
<bddebian> Thank you folks
<Nafallo> bddebian: yay! welcome aboard bdubuntu :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: well done
<slomo> congrats bddebian :)
<ajmitch> thanks, TB
<ogra> YAY
<ivoks> bdubuntu!
<mdz> sabdfl:  Sorry, a system error occurred
* mdz tries not to laugh
<ogra> finally !!!
<dholbach> Nafallo: that must be a new derivative :)
* siretart also hugs bdubuntu :)
<sabdfl> mdz: i just approved him
<ogra> :)
<jbailey> ivoks: Shortened to 'bdub' just to be confusing. =)
<sabdfl> i suspect there's no test for two admins colliding ;-)
<dholbach> hahaha, jbailey :)
<Lathiat> haha jbailey 
<mdz> sabdfl: ok, maybe I should do the approvals then
<bddebian> jbailey: Actually I kinda like that one ;-)
<sabdfl> mdz: ok
<ogra> bddebian, please add yourself to the MOTU page etc...
<sabdfl> mbreit: you're up next
<bddebian> OK so now in a month or two I should get upload rights?
* bddebian ducks
<slomo> bddebian: lol :)
<tseng> ouch.
<mbreit> sabdfl: i am already approved!?
<sabdfl> ogra: instead, please just link the motu page to the launchpad page for the team
<mdz> BillyAM is  up next
<ogra> sabdfl, i think mbreit was already approved
<mdz> mbreit: no
<bddebian> Aye, mbreit rocks
<sabdfl> oops
<mdz> mbreit: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members
<Keybuk> going on the previous point, bddebian still needs approval to be a member, no?
<\sh> i don't know billyAM
<mdz> Keybuk: from CC, yes
<tseng> he has no wiki page, is he here?
<Keybuk> right, just checking
<sabdfl> i just approved him too :-)
<ogra> sabdfl, yup, thats my job, but i want to keep the wikipage around for now...
<\sh> Keybuk: he is already, is he?
<mbreit> mdz: i have been approved as motu on last tb meeting
<mdz> sabdfl: you are a loose cannon
<bddebian> Keybuk: No, I've been a member for a while (or at least should have been)
<mdz> mbreit: I meant in launchpad
<sabdfl> mdz: truth is my defence
<ogra> Keybuk, he is approved
<mbreit> mdz: ah, i see now ;)
<jbailey> ISTR talking on behalf of bddebian at a CC meeting.
<ivoks> doh, i'm not a member yet :)
<Keybuk> ok, someone needs to update launchpad to know bddebian is a member :p
<bddebian> It used to say Ubuntite - yes.  Did that change?
<Keybuk> that's a CoC signing
<mdz> right, so no one named BillyAM here?
<mdz> WickedPuppy?
<\sh> mdz: remove him..
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/billyam
<\sh> damn..
<ajmitch> no, we haven't seen him around
* bddebian is confused.  He thought you only got a CoC signed if you were a member?
* ogra has seen wickedpuppy only once on IRC
<ivoks> who?
<mdz> \sh: feel free to move him to the lower list
<Nafallo> bddebian: nope
<mdz> Tgall next
<\sh> mdz: now I can see his wikipage ... aha..
<ajmitch> mdz: I think some people add their names to the list, and then want to help out
<Nafallo> bddebian: you have to have one to be a member though
<mdz> ajmitch: the text at the top should be clarified, then
<bddebian> Hmm, I see this process is as clear as our others ;-P
<mdz> ajmitch: it should point to the participate page, probably
<mdz> EstevaoProcopio present?
<ajmitch> he's the same
<bddebian> ?
<ajmitch> came into IRC the other day asking how to help out
<ajmitch> haven't seen him since
<mdz> ok
<ogra> LATHIAT !
<bddebian> +++
<mdz> TrentLloyd
<ajmitch> Lathiat is an obvious choice :)
<ivoks> he isn't a member?!
<Lathiat> yes, i am, as of last week
<ivoks> of motu?
<ogra> he's a member
<mdz> TrentLloyd = Lathiat
<ajmitch> ivoks: wait a few minutes
<Lathiat> hi, btw :)
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> yup
<Keybuk> sabdfl: could the team membership page show nicknames as well? :p
<Nafallo> Lathiat = avahi :-)
<ivoks> ajmitch: ;)
<slomo> Lathiat++
<ajmitch> Lathiat has done some great work, GL/GLU transition, unmet deps
<ivoks> ++^8
<ajmitch> avahi upstream & packaging, which got in today :)
<bddebian> Aye Lathiat rocks
* ajmitch has been sponsoring a few of his packages
* ogra doesnt even know what avahi is, but the whole world seems to love Lathiat for it :)
<Lathiat> I'm pretty much planning to continue working on fixing broken packages, I'm also interested in Universe Security I was talking to pitti yesterday to that effect
* Lathiat laughs at ogra
<ajmitch> ogra: think rendezvous^Wbonjour ;)
<ogra> :)
<Lathiat> ogra: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
<siretart> I also sponsored lathiat uploads, he has now some experience with gl/glu dependencies, we made quite some transitions in breezy about that ;)
<dholbach> Lathiat: astharot will be grateful
<\sh> Lathiat is quite excellent...:) I wonder he is not a motu until today ;)
<Lathiat> didnt realise i was so loved :)
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> Lathiat: you aren't... you payed us for this :)
<Lathiat> here was me thinking i'd have to slip sabdfl a 50
<ajmitch> ivoks: sshh
<ivoks> ups, wrong channel :)
<Nafallo> lol
* Lathiat wonders where sabdfl, mdz and keybuk area
<Lathiat> err, are
<ajmitch> Lathiat: busy waiting for the MOTU cheerleaders to quieten
<Keybuk> listening ;)
<Keybuk> can't get a word in edgeways
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<mdz> Lathiat: just remembering you being impatient in #ubuntu-devel ;-)
<Keybuk> though you need to add yourself to launchpad.net and stuff
<Lathiat> me, impatient? hrm.. sounds plausible ;)
<mdz> Lathiat: you need to apply for membership in  launchpad
<Lathiat> mdz: ok
<sabdfl> sorry, i'm trawling through LP trying to find quick fixes to this horrible UI
<mdz> Lathiat: now, if possible
<Lathiat> loading it now
<sabdfl>  +1 for Lathiat - and welcome aboard
<\sh> well...no wonder Lathiat is fast as hell....17 years old...I'm feeling old
<mdz> Lathiat: the team is
<mdz> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, I met him last year when he was leading a miniconf at LCA :)
<ogra> yeah, Lathiat !
<jbailey> \sh: Ubuntu is designed to make one feel old, I think. ;)
<Lathiat> slight problem in that my key is not in the strongly connected set atm (well actually its not signed at all.. my old key was possible compromised and as such revoked).. but I can remedy that sometime soon
<ogra> jbailey, youre not even over 30, come on :)
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe...imagine I could be his father ,-)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: there'll be someone around in perth to sign, right/
<Lathiat> jamesh, davyd among others
<ajmitch> no problem then
<Lathiat> exactly :)
<slomo> Lathiat: congrats :)
<Lathiat> hrm, i logged into launchpad and my 'overview' page is blank
<Lathiat> hrm ok dropped +login off the end and its ok now
<mdz> Lathiat: yes, that happens
<Lathiat> ermm, it says I am a memebr and approved
<mdz> +1 from me, by the way
<\sh> Lathiat: welcome on board :) 
<ivoks> Lathiat: welcome to lp :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: you were approved at CC meeting, right?
<Lathiat> or you mean of MOTU?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yep
<ajmitch> so that's right then
<Lathiat> sorry just thought mdz meant i wasnt in that team
<Lathiat> ok so the motu team... where do i go to join that
<slomo> Lathiat: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+join
<ogra> Lathiat, i'll add you....
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> thanks guys :)
<bddebian> We are talking about old people? :-)
<\sh> bddebian: u want to say, that we approved today a young one and an old fart? ,-)
<ajmitch> so that's +1 from the TB for Lathiat, congrats :)
<bddebian> \sh: Aye ;-)
<Keybuk> ajmitch: +3 ...
<mdz> yes, just waiting for launchpad
<Lathiat> can stop pestering ajmitch now? :)
<Keybuk> mdz: wasn't that a play ?
<ajmitch> Keybuk: yeah, I meant +1 from each :)
<bddebian> Lathiat: Hehe, me too though I may never stop :-)
<Keybuk> perhaps a musical
<Keybuk> "Launchpad, The Musical"
<bddebian> heh
<dholbach> hihi
<mdz> sabdfl: "show members" is hanging forever now
<ogra> add members too
<ivoks> mdz: LP is hanging
<Nafallo> hmm, what's next? :-)
<ivoks> all parts of it
<\sh> ajmitch is next i think
<siretart> hm. lp works for me *duck* :)
<slomo> works for me too ;)
<ogra> siretart, bah, thats your proxy :)
<bddebian> Does for me too now
<ogra> yup
<bddebian> ajmitch ++ for main :-)
* Nafallo agrees
* slomo too
* Keybuk waits for mdz to catch up
<ivoks> i'm affraid motu cheerleading will have no effect on main :)
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> ivoks: yes :)
<mdz> Keybuk: hmm? 
<bddebian> ivoks: I know but it was worth a shot ;-)
<Lathiat> we can cheer anyway
<Lathiat> ajmitch rocks? ;p
<mdz> I was waiting for sabdfl to tell us what's up with launchpad
<Keybuk> mdz: I can't figure out which button to push for Lathiat, so you do it
<Keybuk> it came back on its own
<mdz> oh
<mdz> done
<mdz> Lathiat: welcome aboard
<sabdfl> welcome, Lathiat
<bddebian> Yay Lathiat
<Lathiat> mdz: thanks
<mdz> next ajmitch for core developer?
<Keybuk> ajmitch: what would you like to accomplish if you had main upload rights?
<jbailey> Wow, looking in my logs, I've been hacking with ajmitch since at least 2001.
<ajmitch> Keybuk: I'd like to help first of all with mono, zope, and also general bug fixing where allowed
<ajmitch> jbailey: it's been awhile :)
<dholbach> ajmitch has my  +  for sure: he's been around since the beginning of the MOTUs, he was always around, he's a debian developer and took care of not just trivial stuff
<mdz> jbailey: anything subjective to say? ;-)
<jbailey> mdz: He's been pleasant to work with.  I sponsored his packages through the Debian NM process.  He's friendly and helpful and seamlingly logged into and active ono every channel I go to.
<mdz> ajmitch: zope is currently in universe ;-)
<ajmitch> mdz: main inclusion reports have been written though :)
<jbailey> I trust him and fixes that he does.
<ajmitch> not sure if doko was going to push that onto the queue for breezy now
<jbailey> I was surprised going through my logs that it had been so long. =)  2001 logs from GNUe and Hurd channels.
<ajmitch> jbailey: I haven't really been stalking you :)
<dholbach> hurdubuntu! :)
<mdz> ajmitch: do you have any long term goals for development in main?
<doko> mdz, ajmitch: I want it in main, if possible. the InclusionReports are partly reviewed
<ajmitch> mdz: ideally selinux support, which I didn't get ready due to some ugly patching
<bddebian> dholbach: Amen brother! ;-)
<ajmitch> mdz: I'm also in the debian mono team, so I want to see some of those usable for breezy+1 in main
<mdz> ajmitch: you've been very active in MOTU and we appreciate your efforts there
<mdz> sabdfl: any questions from you regarding ajmitch?
<sabdfl> none, +1 from me, on the basis of great dev contributions to date
<mdz> Keybuk: ready to vote?
<Keybuk> just one more question from me
<Keybuk> ajmitch: if you could take ownership of one of the unfinished BreezyGoals for breezy+1, which would it be?
<sabdfl> no pressure
<Nafallo> hehe
<ivoks> like questions for miss
* ajmitch is looking over the list for uncompleted..
* Keybuk puts on a dress
<bddebian> Hmm
<mdz> Keybuk: only one? but there is so much fun to be had there, who could choose just one project...
<ogra> :)
<Nafallo> mdz: agreed :-)
<ajmitch> apart from selinux & mono, I'd do ServerTeam
<Keybuk> mdz: it was either that, or "if your distro was on fire and you could take out only one thing, what would it be?"
<ajmitch> at a quick pick
<Nafallo> woo! ajmitch++++
<Nafallo> :-)
<bddebian> Keybuk: definetly emacs!
<ivoks> serverteam?
* bddebian hides
* ajmitch couldn't pick those he was already assigned to :)
<Keybuk> ok
<ajmitch> so many good goals to choose from
<Keybuk> +1 from me, on jbailey's recommendation, my five minutes looking at your packages and general support
<mdz> +1 for ajmitch from me
<sabdfl> ajmitch: welcome aboard!
<Keybuk> welcome to main
<ajmitch> thanks
<siretart> grats ajmitch!
<bddebian> w00t ajmitch
<jbailey> ajmitch: !!! =)
<ogra> congrats ajmitch 
* Nafallo hugs ajmitch! :-D
<dholbach> excellent, andrew!
<dholbach> :)
<ivoks> ajmitch is new miss of 20050906!
<bddebian> hehe
* mvo congrats ajmitch 
<slomo> congrats ajmitch :)
<\sh> ajmitch: congrats :) 
<mdz> next agenda item is from AnteKaramatic)
* ajmitch had better get working then :)
<ivoks> that would be me
<mdz> regarding upload privileges
<ogra> ivoks
<mdz> ivoks: has the launchpad discussion answered some of your questions?
<ivoks> acctually this topic is of concer for more motus
<ivoks> mdz: yes, my case is pretty clear
<mdz> what is the issue?
<ivoks> but others still have issues and don't know how to resolve them
<ivoks> LP doesn't support sign-only PGP keys
<mdz> why would you want to use such a key?
<ivoks> but, afaik, that problem is related only to my key
<sabdfl> ivoks: cprov is responsible for that code, pls nudge him
<ivoks> sabdfl: allready did, he's working on it
<sabdfl> ok
<ivoks> mdz: eh, it's not problem create new one...
<ivoks> but...
<ivoks> there are others with good keys and still have problems
<ivoks> please, raise your hands guys
<mdz> specifically who and what problems?
<Nafallo> slomo: ping? ;-)
<slomo> mdz: me for example ;)
<mdz> slomo: what is your situation?
<ivoks> Mithrandir too, IIRC
<elmo> WTF?
<elmo> Mithrandir does NOT have problems
<ivoks> sorry
<ogra> Mithrandir ??
<ivoks> tab :)
<ajmitch> mitario?
<slomo> i have a signed key in LP since july, mailed mako with it many times and got no positive response yet... so no upload rights yet
<ivoks> yep
<elmo> ivoks: I don't know why you're bring this up at the TB
<elmo> we discussed it at the CC
<mdz> slomo: mako?
<elmo> to be honest bringing it up at the TB which mako and I aren't at, is at best unhelpful
<slomo> mdz: i was told to send it to him... that was 1 1/2 months ago
<sabdfl> slomo: your key, or a signed Code of Conduct?
<elmo> to recap the CC meeting: there was some confusion on procedures and what/who was handling CoC
<elmo> that's been resolved, and I've been working with the launchpad team this week, so I can use CoC from LP
<slomo> sabdfl: signed CoC... there were some problems but these are solved since 1 month
<mdz> slomo: have you signed it in launchpad?
<slomo> elmo: ok, then everything is clear now :)
<slomo> mdz: sure... since july
<elmo> slomo: dude, nothing's changed since this CC
<mdz> slomo: some of the confusion arises from that transition
<elmo> well, ok, something has, but still.. this really isn't ince of you guys
<ivoks> ok, then it's clear
<ivoks> signing CoC should be done only on LP?
<ogra> ivoks, now, yes
<elmo> ivoks: from now on, yes
<mdz> yes, going forward all of this should be done in LP
<mdz> no more mailing random people and losing track
<\sh> we have to update the wiki
<ogra> yup
<Nafallo> \sh: do that! :-)
<slomo> mdz: ok, sounds good :)
<sabdfl> ogra: why maintain a separate list of MOTU in the wiki?
<elmo> mdz: (for versions of random meaning well definied for almost a year members of the CC, but yeah, whatever)
<bddebian> While you folks are at it, please make siretart a member :-)
<elmo> sabdfl: he means the instructions
<sabdfl> ok
<siretart> that would be great :)
<mdz> \sh: will you take responsibility for updating the wiki instructions?
<ogra> sabdfl, we have linked all our worklists and todo lists from that page... so the MOTU page itself should stay... 
<\sh> mdz: well...I came up with it .. so I have to do it :)
<mdz> \sh: thanks
<ogra> sabdfl, i'll link the launchpad motu team from the wiki
<mdz> ogra: but it should link to launchpad for a member list
<sabdfl> ok, yes, the page itself, just not the list of motu people in the wiki
<mdz> ogra: let's sync up after the meeting and get the ubuntu-dev team up to date
<sabdfl> i'll try to improve the UI for that over the weekend
<\sh> elmo: short question: are u picking up the keys from LP then, or the mail to keyring@ is a must?
<sabdfl> especially if someone pings me about it friday afternoon ;-)
<ogra> mdz, yup
<ivoks> \sh: only LP
<elmo> \sh: for now, a mail to keyring is still needed
<ivoks> doh
<mdz> sabdfl: I expect to be asleep friday afternoon having been up all night for preview ;-)
<\sh> elmo: ok..so the upload page stays until further notice ,-)
<ivoks> i need a good sleep
<mdz> elmo: launchpad still can't dump keys for you?
<sabdfl> mdz: it can
<sabdfl> but
<ogra> sabdfl, hmm, there is no way yet to have irc nicks in the memberlist ? 
<sabdfl> let's wait till we are running LP for breezy+1
<elmo> mdz: it can, but katie's not going to use it
<sabdfl> ogra: easy to have launchpad nicks, which will usually be the same
<elmo> mdz: I'll get it so the mail to keyring part isn't needed within a week or so
<ogra> sabdfl, okay..
<mdz> elmo: even if you don't use it verbatim, it seems easier for you to pull them from LP than to deal with all the emails
<mdz> we're over time here; is there any other business to discuss?
<sabdfl> ok, that will get done
<siretart> could anyone add me to lp ubuntumembers team please?
<bddebian> siretart: You beat me to it :-)
<mdz> siretart: membership is a CC matter; best to take it to one of them
<elmo> mdz: I just said that?
<mdz> elmo: yes, I type slowly
<mdz> not hearing any other business...once...twice...
<mdz> meeting adjourned
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<sabdfl> siretart: done
<ogra> zhaks mdz 
<Keybuk> heh, speed meeting-closing
<siretart> sabdfl: you ROCK! THANKS!
<dholbach> thanks matt, good night everybody
<ogra> urgs
<\sh> thanks to you mdz/keybuck/sabdfl/elmo and all the others
<ogra> thanks indeed
<sabdfl> I ROCK! YES! YES!
<sabdfl> ;-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks, thanks all!
<sabdfl> cheers all
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> lol
<dholbach> :)
<Keybuk> siretart: please don't encourage him
<Keybuk> ;)
<ivoks> thanks to all
<bddebian> hehe
<sabdfl> keybuck. i like it.
<ivoks> elmo: nhf?
<ajmitch> sabdfl: you don't watch #u-motu enough, we see that sort of thing everyday there :)
<siretart> you guys all rock! grats to the newcomers, I love the admins here! :)
<Keybuk> sabdfl: it's better than "keybum"
<Nafallo> thanx all :-)
<sabdfl> or bumkey, for that matter
<Nafallo> and congrats to all approved people :-)
<Lathiat> thanks heaps guys
* Lathiat puts his 50 back in his pocket for another day
<bddebian> Heh
<ogra> Lathiat, hey, i thought that was for the beer in -motu now...
<\sh> Lathiat: u will need your 50 bucks for the beer ,-)
<ivoks> few beers
<bddebian> Heh, aye
* ogra high fives \sh 
<\sh> ogra: *clapp* ,-)
<ogra> heh
<Lathiat> :)
<mvo> hm, beer
* mvo join #ubuntu-motu
<bddebian> OK folks I have to head home.  Thanks again.
<\sh> mvo: fiege pils especially for you ;)
<Lathiat> be cool if i get to goto UBZ, my 18th is in th emiddle of it, sounds like a good recipe for disaster :)
<mvo> \sh: hehe
<siretart> bye bddebian 
<JaneW> Lathiat: hehe
<ajmitch> Lathiat: oh yes
<\sh> cu bddebian good night :)
<ivoks> bdubuntu
<ajmitch> Lathiat: birthday on the day off sounds dangerous
<bddebian> heh
<Lathiat> i will need it then, no one buying me err, soft drink, all the time
<Lathiat> ajmitch: have a chance to look at ipac-ng?
<Lathiat> err, -EWIN
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-04
<dholbach> @time utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2006, 08:03:57 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 day
<siretart> @time mez
<siretart> @time berlin
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Berlin: September 04 2006, 10:17:22 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 day
<Fujitsu> 1 day... How descriptive.
<brendonjt> hi there all  umm who is going to be at the meeting tomorrow?
<simira> @schedule oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
<simira> which of them...?
<brendonjt> ubuntu
<simira> the community council, you mean?
<brendonjt> yip  sorry
<Fujitsu> @schedule melbourne
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Melbourne: 06 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 07:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu
<Fujitsu> I'll hopefully be there.
<Fujitsu> I'm up for membership :
<Fujitsu> *:)
<simira> I'm there if I'm awake...
<brendonjt> same here  but i have a small problem ehe
<Fujitsu> I won't be there from the start... As I'll be in the train going to school, but I'll be there from about 20 past.
<Fujitsu> brendonjt, what's wrong?
<brendonjt> umm was wanting to speak to somebody that is on the council that is going to be there
<brendonjt> fujitsu: the community council is tomorrow 10am  nz time
<Fujitsu> No...
<Fujitsu> Day after.
<Fujitsu> What day is it in NZ now?
<Fujitsu> Monday, September 4?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: the 4th of course :)
<Fujitsu> I thought so!
<ajmitch> we're not that far ahead
<Fujitsu> And the meeting is on the 6th.
<Fujitsu> I was just checking, I was pretty sure you weren't past the IDL.
<ajmitch> if we were, we'd be a day behind
<brendonjt> fujitsu: ok as it said the 5th on the wiki
<Fujitsu> brendonjt, UTC.
<Fujitsu> Note that you're 12 hours ahead, so it's the next day.
<simira> 
<simira> @schedule new zealand
<brendonjt> ok so wot time would it be on wednesday then
<Fujitsu> 10am, assuming you're +12
<Fujitsu> @schedule auckland
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Pacific/Auckland: 06 Sep 10:00: Community Council | 07 Sep 00:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 09:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 08:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu
<Fujitsu> There we go.
<brendonjt> so 10 am then
<ajmitch> yes, a fairly sane time for NZ
<brendonjt> can  someone who is on the council pm  me as i have to ask them something out  of the channel please
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-05
<imbrandon> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 05 Sep 17:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 07:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 16:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu
<Fujitsu> @schedule melbourne
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Melbourne: 06 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 07:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu
<Fujitsu> @now melbourne
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Melbourne: September 05 2006, 22:09:39 - Next meeting: Community Council in 9 hours 50 minutes
<Hobbsee> @now sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: September 06 2006, 00:00:19 - Next meeting: Community Council in 7 hours 59 minutes
<jenda> @now Prague
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Prague: September 05 2006, 18:51:22 - Next meeting: Community Council in 5 hours 8 minutes
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
<gnomefreak> @ schedule new_york
<gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
<highvoltage> @schedule johannesburg
<gnomefreak> highvoltage: the bot is gone
* gnomefreak scrolled after i tried it
<highvoltage> :(
<rodarvus> latest schedule seems to be: Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
<rodarvus> I assume Europe/Amsterdam is UTC+2, but I might be wrong
<gnomefreak> it is
<highvoltage> wow, meeting at midnight.
<rodarvus> next ubuntu development meeting is 4AM for me
<highvoltage> rodarvus: ouch
<licio> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<licio> ops
<bieb_work> @schedule Atlanta
<bieb_work> anyone here with experience with xubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<licio> don't have any bots.. :(
<jenda> @now Prague
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Prague: September 05 2006, 22:50:53 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 9 minutes
<mruiz> @now Santiago
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Santiago: September 05 2006, 16:52:29 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 7 minutes
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
<licio> Surak, hi
<Surak> Hello
<jono> @now London
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/London: September 05 2006, 22:04:19 - Next meeting: Community Council in 55 minutes
<licio> @now Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Sao_Paulo: September 05 2006, 18:06:39 - Next meeting: Community Council in 53 minutes
<licio> Seveas, ping
<Seveas> licio, ?
<BHSPitLappy> Seveas, (that's where you go, "pong!")
<LinuxBA_> good night all
<BHSPitLappy> night
<Surak> Hey LinuxBA - we were waiting for you :-)
<LinuxBA_> sorry
<LinuxBA_> my job
<Surak> You're on schedule, don't worry
<ubuntuser> Surak, CypherBIOS too.. ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<LinuxBA_> my net is instable
<LinuxBA_> unistable
<pygi> heh
<imbrandon> ...
<jono> hey
<Seveas> hi jono 
<welshbyte> hey jono 
<Seveas> Kamion, poke
<jono> howdy :)
<Seveas> midnight here
<Seveas> let's hope the CC shows up
<welshbyte> hey Hobbsee 
<jenda> yay, midnight here too, almost exactly.
<gnomefreak> 6 here
<Kamion> yes, I'm here
<Kamion> I've pinged the others
<Seveas> let's hope they don't timeout ;)
<Hobbsee> hey all
<Hobbsee> must be meeting time.
<Seveas> hi elmo 
<imbrandon> moins all ( err evening for some )
<jono> very much evening here :P
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> bout 11pm jono ? heh
<jono> yep :)
<imbrandon> btw i havent seen you on irc much ( diffrent hours ) congrats on the canonical pos
<jono> thanks imbrandon :)
<jono> imbrandon, where are you based?
<imbrandon> KC Mo USA
<Hobbsee> hey jono 
<imbrandon> but i keep aussie hours 
<gnomefreak> good job on book all of you :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: strange..
<jono> hey Hobbsee :)
<jono> gnomefreak, :)
<jono> imbrandon, ahhh
<ajmitch> hey jono 
<jono> howdy ajmitch 
<gnomefreak> found a typo but that is expected 
<gnomefreak> brb
<imbrandon> lo ajmitch, thought you wasnt gonna make it ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm working, so I'll mainly just watch
<imbrandon> ahh 
<Burgwork> gnomefreak, email myself with the page number and fix
<jono> gnomefreak, a typo?! no! nooooo!
<jono> :
<Burgwork> gnomefreak, we are going to be revising the book for edgy shortly
<jono> :P
<gnomefreak> Burgwork: ok
<jono> hey Burgwork :)
<Burgwork> hey jono 
<Seveas> Burgwork, great
<imbrandon> Burgwork, sweet , cant wait
<jono> who are we waiting for ?
<Kamion> sorry for the delay, elmo's just trying to get TECHNOLOGY to work in order to phone mako
<Hobbsee> hey mako 
<imbrandon> ;)
<mako> hey
<ajmitch> mako!
<Seveas> ola mako
<bddebian> Hello mako
<mako> sorry i'm on my phone.. weill be at a computer ina few minutes
<jono> hey mako 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<welshbyte> hey LaserJock 
<trappist> LaserJock!
<mako> apologies
<LaserJock> shesh
<Seveas> LaserJock, is that the latest shell?
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> Seveas: yeah, only raging Ubuntu-holic MOTUs get to use it though ;_)
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<imbrandon> heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-06
<Surak> :-)
* imbrandon twidles his thumbs
<imbrandon> .oO ( twidles a word? )
* bddebian picks his nose
<trappist> imbrandon: twiddles
* LaserJock installs Knot2 on the side
<Seveas> which side?
<KurtKraut> LaserJock, are you making a clean install or upgrading from Dapper ?
<LaserJock> KurtKraut: clean
<LaserJock> Seveas: that would be about 4 ft to my left side :-)
<KurtKraut> LaserJock, oh ok... I'm trying to upgrade from Dapper and I'm facing several bugs.
<ompaul> bddebian, your nose is a team player?
<ompaul> bddebian, which sport?
* ogra shows arund the photo he took of bddebian picking his nose 
<bddebian> doh
<kwwii> hi
<pygi> hey kwwii 
<kwwii> howdy pygi
<ogra> hi kwwii 
<imbrandon> heya kwwii
<Kamion> we should probably get started even though mako's not around
<Kamion> (properly)
<Kamion> I don't know about anyone else but it's pretty late here and I'm already tired
<Seveas> +1
<Kamion> so the first item on the agenda is:
<Kamion> Continuing the IRC network discussion
<Kamion> can I go and hide now?
<Seveas> that's still waiting on a sabdfl-aware meeting
<Kamion> all right then
<Hobbsee> surely that's not being discussed again :P
<Kamion> #
<Kamion> Call for nominations for the "Localisation / Translation Team Leader". We would like to call for folks to volunteer to be considered as the coordinator of Ubuntu translation efforts using Rosetta. This person would keep in touch with translation teams, coordinate with Jordi and Carlos w.r.t. Rosetta developments, and coordinate with Martin and Doko w.r.t. language pack development.
<Kamion>     *
<Kamion>       For next meeting danilos, OgMaciel and carlos will be providing a more complete 'Job Description'
<Kamion>     *
<Kamion>       I'd like to apply for this position. OgMaciel
<Kamion> OgMaciel: here?
<OgMaciel> Kamion, yup
<Kamion> I'm pinging Jordi and danilos on the off-chance that they might be around this late
<Kamion> since they haven't provided the promised job description yet
<OgMaciel> Kamion, I sure hope so
<Seveas> I pinged jordi a few minutes ago, no response
<Seveas> dailos is danil[out] 
<OgMaciel> Kamion, they've emailed the CC a document
<OgMaciel> Kamion, the document contains all the details
<elmo> no they haven't
<elmo> oh, carlos has
<OgMaciel> elmo, I was cced on this
<OgMaciel> yup
<Kamion> ah yes, found it
<OgMaciel> ;)
<Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubuntu-l10n-coordinator.txt for reference
<Surak> Kamion: 403
<Kamion> it should go somewhere more permanennt
<Kamion> Surak: fixed, thanks
<Ubuntuser> done
<elmo> do we have any other volunteers/nominations yet?
<pygi> EdgyEft, how can one found out what positions exist/are open? I remember reading it somewhere before :P
<pygi> elmo*
<elmo> ehm
<elmo> that's kind of a good point -has  this job description been mailed anywhere?
<gnomefreak> i thought it was on ubuntu.com somewhere pygi 
<Seveas> elmo, not that I know of
<bddebian> I have GOT to get home...
<Kamion> if you guys are thinking of http://www.ubuntu.com/employment, it's not there (and shouldn't be, it's not a paid position) - I don't know of any other list of "open positions"
<mako> back all
<Seveas> it might be a good idea to post it on -users and/or an announce mailing list
<Seveas> wb mako
<pygi> Kamion, I thought it was somewhere under special part of ubuntu
<pygi> ubuntu.com
* Kamion pokes through a few mailing lists
<bddebian> Kamion, elmo, mako: Apologies for butting in but i have to leave.  Please give +1 to welshbyte, Fujitsu, and trappist for me.
<Kamion> pygi: feel free to find it
<Surak> Kamion: are those paid positions subject to scrutinity in a CC Meeting?
<jono> Kamion, I think a list of open positions would be a good idea :)
<pygi> Kamion, well, I don't think it is there anymore :)
<trappist> bddebian: thanks
* pygi agrees with jono 100%
<elmo> Surak: no
<elmo> Surak: Ubuntu isn't paying them
<jono> I will add it to my list :P
<mako> Surak: just can pay anyone to work on any part of ubuntu you'd like
<mako> Surak: so can mark
<Seveas> <pedantic> then the jobs should probably on canonical.com instead of ubuntu.com </pedantic>
<jono> Surak, canonical pays those positions
<mako> Seveas: they really should
<elmo> ok, so before we go any further with this translator thing, can we get the call and description mailed somewhere, and maybe put on the website 
<mako> or at least presented in a way that makes it clear that those are canonical jobs related to ubuntu and other people should be able to advertise jobs there
<Seveas> elmo, ok, I'll mail it to -users and prod mdke for website
<imbrandon> mako, +1
<elmo> Seveas: which -users?
<elmo> there's a rosetta-users or launchpad-users or something
<Kamion> why -users?
<Kamion> surely ubuntu-translators is the right list
<Seveas> launchpad-users I meant
<Seveas> ubuntu-translators is fairly dead
<Kamion> ubuntu-translators, cc to rosetta-users, perhaps
<Seveas> ack
<Kamion> Seveas: the mailing list archives show active debates
<Seveas> hmm
<Kamion> I mean not *lots*, but more than dead
* Seveas should check whether he is still subscribed then
<jenda> fairly dead doesn't mean no one reads them
<Seveas> anyway, sending it to those lists sounds like a much better idea than mine so I'll do that
<elmo> ok - so let's revisit that next meeting then after we've had a chance to actually get some nominations/volunteers :)
<elmo> what's next?
* mako nods
<elmo> any locoteam folks here?
<Kamion> phone
<mako> right
<mako> any local communities who are on the list AND present should speak up to introduce themselves
<Seveas> should we at some point prune old loco/member items from the agenda? 
<Seveas> as you can see, a few are on the agnda for months now
<mako> yes
<mako> that's probably a good idea
<mako> alright then
<jono> by the way, I am going to be working on LoCo teams
<elmo> Seveas: could you mail the older ones explaining why and then prune them?
<Seveas> elmo, ack
<elmo> Seveas: (nicely ;-)
<mako> jono: be careful how much you take on right away :)
<jono> I am hoping to clear up LoCo teams a bit
<elmo> Seveas: cool, thanks
<jono> mako, heh, step by step :)
* Seveas does a happy dance for jono
<elmo> ok, so new member applicants
<mako> jono: i've had much of your job before, i know this :)
<jono> Seveas, :)
* nixternal puts a fence around Ubuntu Chicago - no pruning needed here ;)
<elmo> first of all, sound off if you're a new member applicant and here
<trappist> here
<Seveas> CypherBIOS seems to be the first on the list who is here
<EtienneG> here
<gnomefreak> nixternal: wasnt that oked?
<jono> here
<welshbyte> here
<CypherBIOS> I am,
<CypherBIOS> here
<Seveas> I'll try and poke ones that are unfindable atm
<ompaul> Seveas, flannel is mia
<mako> best to at least mention their names here
<mako> RolandoBlanco whitesoft, no here?
<Seveas> no
<mako> Kirjanov Denis kirjanov, not here?
<mako> NealBussett Flannel, we've just heard is not here
<mako> Ahmad Muammar y3dips, not here?
<mako> Rafael Proena CypherBIOS: you're up
* CypherBIOS here
<Seveas> -SeenServ- I haven't seen y3dips recently
<Seveas> same for kirjanov
<mako> CypherBIOS: have your introduction ready?
<CypherBIOS> mako: yep
<mako> if others in line do not yet have a short intro typed up for pasting, please get that ready
<CypherBIOS> My name is Rafael Proena, aka CypherBIOS.
<mako> we'll go in order but people may not be here so you may up sooner than you think
<mako> CypherBIOS: please, go ahead
<CypherBIOS> mako: tnx
<CypherBIOS> First, here is the links for my WikiPage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CypherBios
<CypherBIOS> and in the launchpad https://launchpad.net/people/cypherbios
<CypherBIOS> There is complete explanation about me, my work and contributions on the web, but here goes a summary:
<CypherBIOS> (to economize space, see all links that I mention in my WikiPage)
<CypherBIOS> I'm working with/to/in Ubuntu since Warty, using the Hoary beta.
<CypherBIOS> My principal contribuition with Ubuntu is in the Brazilian Community, where I've created, with the help of some amazing people, the Ubuntu Brazilian Documentation Team that now is one of the major teams and force within the Brazilian Community.  I'm also the organizer and mantainner of the structure of Wiki Ubuntu Brazil.
<CypherBIOS> Organizer and mantainner of the structure of Wiki Ubuntu Brazil. I got the power to move/remove the pages ;)
<CypherBIOS> I am a Planet Ubuntu Brazil autor, where I post some articles and news about Ubuntu to keep the community up-to-date.
<CypherBIOS> I've helped vdepizzol and others to organize and migrate the www.UbuntuBrasil.org interface and estructure. Making the usability work together with praticity :)
<CypherBIOS> I'm developing a GUI-based tool called APTonCD, this is developed in Python and GTK for Ubuntu. To know more about the project, see http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net
<OgMaciel> cyphase, don't forget about APTonCD <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/APTonCD>
<CypherBIOS> basic... is it ;) sorry for the flood
<OgMaciel> CypherBIOS, , don't forget about APTonCD <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/APTonCD>
<CypherBIOS> OgMaciel: tanks
<elmo> CypherBIOS: ehm, you wrote your own planet rather than use the existing one?
<CypherBIOS> elmo: no, use thee existing
<OgMaciel> elmo, that was actually done by Meyer
<elmo> I'm confused.  is it the same source code as the planet used on planet.ubuntu.com?  i.e. the one written by Scott + Jdub
<Kamion> ok, sorry, back; was catching up with mdz-land
<Seveas> no, -br uses a php based planet
<elmo> if it is - what do you meant by author.  if it's not - why?
<OgMaciel> elmo, no... it is written from scratch by Meyer
<elmo> boggle
<elmo> ok
<OgMaciel> elmo, he is syndicated
<OgMaciel> :)
<Ubuntuser> elmo, called Phplanet.. 
<elmo> oh, what a confusing use of the word "author"
<elmo> anyway, I get it now, don't mind me
<OgMaciel> :)
<CypherBIOS> elmo: sorry ;)
<Seveas> OgMaciel, (or any other -br member) -- we need some testimonials
<OgMaciel> Seveas, mine is at his wiki page
<OgMaciel> Seveas, he has my 100% support
<Seveas> ah, didn't finish the entire page yet
<elmo> CypherBIOS: you might want to change "Author of Ubuntu Brazilian's blog agregator." on your wiki page to "Author on" to make it less confusing
<Seveas> well done, collecting testimonials there
<Surak> Ubuntu Documentation Team is going really fine.
<Ubuntuser> Seveas, i cannot put my testimonial.. but CypherBIOS have my 100% too
<CypherBIOS> Seveas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CypherBios
<OgMaciel> CypherBIOS, has brought in a great group of individuals and created a great infra-structure of documentation
<CypherBIOS> elmo: I'll
<Surak> Seveas: same as ubuntuser. I support CypherBIOS fully.
<CypherBIOS> Ubuntuser, OgMaciel, Surak: tanks
* OgMaciel urges elmo mako Kamion and Seveas to check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/APTonCD
<AndreNoel> cypher is doind a great great great work with doc
<josevitor> idem
<elmo> hmm, rosetta got a lot more shiny
<Surak> Documentation team seems today one of the most active parts of the Brazilian LocoTeam work.
<Seveas> OgMaciel, at the risk of going offtopic -- I've been implementing a similar thing recently -- if interested, let's talk after the meeting
<AndreNoel> i think that brazilian doc team needs CypherBIOS 
<OgMaciel> Seveas, great... we have a good team behind it too
<LinuxBA> here
<CypherBIOS> Seveas: I interested, I will
<mako> this all looks great
<mako> i'm happy with membership
<Seveas> couldn't agree more
<OgMaciel> josevitor has asked to me to state on his behalf that he supports CypherBIOS 
<CypherBIOS> mako: tanks
<elmo> yeah, ack from me too
<OgMaciel> CypherBIOS, congrats buddy!
<Seveas> OgMaciel, not yet ;)
<jono> :)
<LinuxBA> CypherBIOS, congrats
<Ubuntuser> CypherBIOS, parabns em bom portugus! :)
<OgMaciel> Seveas, ooops
<AndreNoel> hehe
<OgMaciel> Seveas, slippery finger
<Surak> Easy people ;-)
<OgMaciel> hehehe
<Seveas> Kamion, still has to give his ok
<CypherBIOS> Seveas, mako, elmo, Kamion: so, I'm aboard?
<Kamion> sorry, conversations with mdz tend to require a fair bit of follow-up - yes, ack for CypherBIOS
<AndreNoel> congrats CypherBIOS!!
<Seveas> CypherBIOS, NOW you are ;)
<OgMaciel> CypherBIOS, NOW congrats buddy!
<mako> alright
<Surak> Now congrats!
<CypherBIOS> Kamion: tanks ;)
<OgMaciel> :)
<Seveas> congratulations!
<jono> CypherBIOS, congrats! :)
<AndreNoel> Yo!
<Ubuntuser> :)
<CypherBIOS> Seveas: ;)
<mako> Brendon Toogood Brendon8
<mako> around around?
<Surak> Parabns rapaz!
<CypherBIOS> Tanks for all ;D
<josevitor> yeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhh!
<AndreNoel> Yip Yip Hurra!
<Seveas> brendon8 is MIA
<CypherBIOS> Surak: valeu!
<LinuxBA> uahuahauhauhauhauha
<mako> Rocco Stanzione trappist: you're up
<Ubuntuser> Yip Yip hurra.. is good!
<josevitor> Viva viva viva!
<trappist> hi
<Ubuntuser> hehe
<josevitor> Bravo!!
<guilhermee> CypherBIOS, good job :)
<mako> calm down guys ;)
<Seveas> -br folks: please calm down
<trappist> so, paste an intro?
<mako> trappist: please,
<guilhermee> Seveas, sorry :P
<trappist> Hi I'm Rocco Stanzione.  I started out on redhat 6 in 1999, moved to mandrake a couple of years later.
<trappist> I was active in Mandrake, a member of the "club" and of the security team.  I switched to Debian about
<Ubuntuser> Seveas, one more to family
<trappist> 2 years ago for political and professional reasons and liked it a lot.  I tried Ubuntu just after
<trappist> breezy was released and decided, hopefully for the last time, that this was the distro for me.  Since
<trappist> then I've been active in the community on as many fronts as I'm capable of contributing to, and maybe
<trappist> 1 or 2 more ;)  I'm on the doc team where I made decent contributions to the serverguide and have
<trappist> proofread extensively, and I'm in the process of writing a securityguide.  I peruse bugs often, and
<trappist> try to fix any that I can.  I have a partial list of bugs to which I've uploaded patches, if you like.
<trappist> I also report bugs, help out on #ubuntu and #kubuntu, and make occasional contributions to the wiki.
<trappist> I'm the author of ipkungfu, the new version of which I'm working on getting packaged, and I run
<trappist> #iptables on freenode.  In real life I currently work for an airline consultancy, running the network
<trappist> and helping to write applications for airlines to manage their maintenance programs, FAA compliance
<trappist> documentation, etc.  I have a wife and a daughter, both of whom are surprisingly supportive of the
<trappist> time I spend working on geek stuff like ubuntu.
* Seveas does some cheering for trappist because of his bug work
* trappist thanks Seveas after some recent headbutting
* jenda joins in because of the support in #ubuntu (he helped me once ;))
<Lure> yep, trappist does a great job on bugs
<gnomefreak> trappist: has been helping out in kubutnu more and more and he just like 3 minutes ago helped someone in -bugs :)
<gnomefreak> +1 for trappist 
<ompaul> +1 trappist for general support I have seen him do
<LaserJock> trappist helped out quite a bit with the Dapper documentation doing proofreading and making sure we had a consistent style
<imbrandon> +1 from trapist from me too
<imbrandon> s/from/for
<Riddell> trappist has been known to fill my inbox with kubuntu related bug triage, which I'm all for
<Kamion> that's a lot of bug karma
<Hobbsee> quick!  lets spam Riddell's inbox some more!
<imbrandon> hehe
<jono> Hobbsee, woo!
<trappist> Riddell: I wouldn't have thought you'd notice :)
<Seveas> Kamion, bug karma increases quickly since recently
<Seveas> mine has had a few 100k more than just a few weeks ago
<gnomefreak> my understanding its gonna be changing alot
<trappist> is it also gonna be documented a lot? I have no idea how it works
<imbrandon> yea i went from 15k to 190k in like 2 weeks reciently
<Seveas> not saying that trappist isn't doing a great job, because he really is doing a great job
<Surak> Mine has multilplied by 3 some time ago.
<CypherBIOS> Surak: mine too ;)
<mako> trappist: i like the public key on your wiki page
<gnomefreak> trappist: what names are LP and wiki under?
<trappist> gnomefreak: https://launchpad.net/people/trappist and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RoccoStanzione
<gnomefreak> ty had them backwards :(
<Seveas> (gnomefreak: links are on the CC agenda page)
<elmo> ack from me for trappist 
<Seveas> \o/
<trappist> that was a +3 from Seveas I think
<imbrandon> lol
<jenda> ...but he doesn't count.
<Seveas> trappist, only CC members can +1/-1 people
<trappist> Seveas: oh, I thought you were :)
<nixternal> trappist: i swore you were a member already ;)   we need trappist, he is hookin' up the docs!!
<Seveas> I'm not -- The CC members are mako, Kamion, elmo and sabdfl
<Kamion> yup, +1 on trappist from me as well
<Seveas> trappist, you might need to bribe mako ;)
<trappist> I'm not above it
<ompaul> trappist, the rest are people saying your not a bad person or words to that effect
<trappist> ompaul: gotcha.  they're much appreciated :)
<Surak> mako hitchcock :-)
<Ubuntuser> :)
<trappist> m/sg mako let's work out a deal
<welshbyte> the suspense... :)
<Spl4y> *fear*
<Ubuntuser> Mako Sthephen King
<Ubuntuser> hehehe
<OgMaciel> :P
<trappist> I think I'm gonna hurl
<Surak> welshbyte: hold your heart to your own time :-)
<mako> yes, sounds fine :)
<mako> sorry about that
<Seveas> trappist, welcome aboard!
<mako> i am trying to juggle a GPLv3 meeting that is going on concurrently
<Ubuntuser> \o/
<trappist> woohoo!  thanks everybody!
<Fujitsu_> Ouch, mako.
<Surak> Congrats Rocco!
<trappist> Surak: thanks
<mako> i'm mostly just watching over there but but they just asked my opinion about something :)
<Seveas> heh
<LinuxBA> trappist, Congrats
<nixternal> congratulations trappist!!!   lets go do some KUbuntu docs now...we only have 9 more days until our freeze ;)
<mako> Andy Price welshbyte
<Spl4y> trappist, congrats :)
<Ubuntuser> Congratulations trappist 
<mako> welshbyte: you around?
<welshbyte> ok here goes :)
<jenda> congratulations ;)
<trappist> much thanks everybody
<welshbyte> My name is Andy Price [wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndyPrice , LP: https://launchpad.net/people/andy-price ]  I'm 23 (24 in a couple of days) and I'm going into the second year of a Computer Science degree course at Swansea University.
<gnomefreak> congrats trappist 
<welshbyte> I've been using GNU/Linux systems for about 4 years. I worked my way through a handful of distros including Mandriva and Fedora before finally settling on Ubuntu around the time of Hoary. Now even my Mother uses Ubuntu, which has given me great insight into usability issues from a non-technical perspective.
<welshbyte> Last year I was president of Swansea University Computer Society (of Alan Cox fame) and this year I'm its treasurer. Along with that, I've also been a systems admin for the society - we run web/email/ftp/etc services from a small room on campus. We have about 150 members and we always keep a stock of Ubuntu CDs in our computer room to offer to members.
<welshbyte> I am the maintainer of a python/glade easy-backup application called pybackpack which I resurrected from a 2005 Google Summer of Code project which was pronounced "dead". It needs a lot of cleaning up but it has good potential.
<welshbyte> I filed my first Ubuntu bug last October and started irregular sessions of bug triage shortly after that, hanging out on #ubuntu-bugs and lurking on other Ubuntu channels out of interest. A couple of months ago I taught myself how to package debs and about a month ago I started participating in #ubuntu-motu along with #ubuntu-bugs and with more regularity than before. Since then I have been triaging bugs and taking 
<welshbyte> an interest in MOTU activities.
<welshbyte> My recent contributions have mostly been helping out the MOTUs with packaging, merging, syncing and little jobs like writing a missing man page. I've also been helping bddebian look into some troublesome issues like maxima's GCL bugs and the Eclipse libraries problem. I now regularly read 10 ubuntu-related mailing lists and I'm starting to get a good feel for how the whole development system works. Details of my pac
<welshbyte> kaging contributions are listed on my wiki page.
<Seveas> any MOTU around for cheerleading?
<welshbyte> Along with merging/packaging/fixing for Universe I'm also happy to give other users in #ubuntu-motu some help with their own packaging and programming questions. I've found that the people that hang out in #ubuntu-motu, #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-bugs are hugely helpful and friendly and I enjoy being part of that community. I've also been known to lurk in #ubuntu+1 and #ubuntu-uk although I'm more interested in the d
<welshbyte> evelopment-related channels.
<crimsun> I'll add because I have to return to a meeting that both welshbyte and Fujitsu_ make bug triaging and universe merges much more tolerable. They learn quickly and play well with the rest of the teams.
<Seveas> imbrandon had to leave but wanted to cheer for welshbyte too
<elmo> Dear Wiki, you are the SUCK.  Love, James.
<welshbyte> I hope I can help the Ubuntu community fight the "battle of the bugs" and also help to take a chunk out of the huge amount of work the MOTU team have to undertake. As I learn more about the development process the number of contributions I can make to Ubuntu increases and it gets even more fun. Eventually I'd like to become a MOTU and help to keep the increasing number of packages in universe up to a high standard o
<welshbyte> f quality. Lots of work to do, but I enjoy it.
<welshbyte> Thank you for considering me as a Ubuntu member :)
<welshbyte> sorry, bit long wasn't it :)
<imbrandon> i'm still here but , yea welshbyte has my +1 , he helps alot
<LaserJock> yeah, I support welshbyte as well, he has been sticking to it and has been consistent on #ubuntu-motu
<imbrandon> in motu and learns fast
<jono> welshbyte +1 from me, excellent work :)
<welshbyte> thanks guys :)
<elmo> dear lord - personal wiki page in the 3rd person
<imbrandon> Seveas, it was bddebian that had to leave and gave a cheer for welshbyte and Fujitsu_
<Seveas> urgh
<imbrandon> ;)
<Seveas> ok, well both of you now cheered for him, he should be happy ;)
<LaserJock> elmo: yeah ... interesting 
<elmo> motu people: how long has welshbyte been doing motu-ish stuff?
<welshbyte> elmo: makes it easier to maintain if i die ;)
<imbrandon> [17:28]  <bddebian> +Kamion, elmo, mako: Apologies for butting in but i have to leave.  Please give +1 to welshbyte, Fujitsu, and trappist for me.
<welshbyte> bddebian is unfortunately the person i work with most :/
<LaserJock> elmo: hmm, trying to think, he's been learning and hanging out in -motu for some time
<crimsun> 2 months at least
<elmo> ok
<imbrandon> elmo, about 3 or more months iirc ( from what i've seen )
<Surak> I've seen welshbyte in #ubuntu-motu for quite some time now.
<welshbyte> it's been a fun ride :)
<elmo> ok, ack from me
<Kamion> yep, +1 for welshbyte, looks to be doing a good job and learning fast
<mako> yes, sounds good to me
<mako> WilliamGrant Fujitsu
<welshbyte> :D
<Fujitsu_> Ah yes, me.
<Seveas> welshbyte, congrats!
<mako> Fujitsu_: go, go :)
<Fujitsu_> Hi, I'm William Grant. I'm a 15-year-old student in Year 12 in Melbourne, Australia. I started out on Red Hat (7.0?) in mid-2000, when my father introduced me to it. I stayed there for a couple of years, moved to Mandrake, greatly disliked it, so moved to Slackware for about 1.5 years. I discovered Ubuntu just before the release of Hoary, and I haven't left since.
<Fujitsu_> Around the release of Breezy I began to help a lot in #ubuntu. This continued until just after the release of Dapper, when I had to stop sitting in #ubuntu, as it was using up my download limit rapidly :(.
<Fujitsu_> Also around the release of Breezy, YukiCuss and I formed the AustralianTeam, which I now manage the server for, and has around 170 people on the mailing list, and well over 50 members.
<Fujitsu_> Since the move to Launchpad, I've been triaging bugs a fair bit. I'm not doing so much now, though, devoting more time to MOTUish activities.
<Fujitsu_> I've merged and requested syncs for over 40 packages during the Edgy development cycle, with a few new ones yesterday.
<mako> LinuxBA: skipped you, you're next
<mako> LinuxBA: sorry
<Surak> Congrats welshbyte
<LinuxBA> okay
<Seveas> Fujitsu_, you're only 15?!?
<LinuxBA> mako, no prblem
<Fujitsu_> Seveas, yup...
<welshbyte> thanks Seveas, Surak :)
<Fujitsu_> As of two months ago.
* jenda thinks age in and of it self should not be a criterion...
<mako> jenda: don't worry it's not
<Seveas> jenda, I don't consider it as such, I was merely very surprised
<jenda> as long as those two months were filled with significant and sustained contribution :)
<elmo> Fujitsu: you haven't applied for ubuntu-members in LP ?
* Seveas does 3 cheers for Fujitsu, he likes to push buttons in Malone
<Fujitsu_> elmo, I thought I was only meant to once I was approved.
<Fujitsu_> Thanks Seveas :)
<mako> Fujitsu_: no, do it before the meeting
<Fujitsu_> Ah, I'll do it now.
<Kamion> I do tend to hold younger people to a higher standard of sustainedness, personally, just because people who are still in school have a lot of demands on their time that they can't control
<Kamion> but Fujitsu's been around for a good long while
<LaserJock> I also support Fujitsu, he has been helpful for me in MOTU Science doing bug work and has certainly been helping out in -motu
<imbrandon> yea Fujitsu has been a great help with the merges, i have sponsored a few packages for him ( his LP +packages shows 40+ ) , he has a big +1 from me
<elmo> mutter
<elmo> don't use www.launchpad.net for links folks
<Surak> Kamion: but they doesn't have a boss nor a wife. Those can take some time :-)
<elmo> it gives nasty SSL errors
<Seveas> heh
<nixternal> I support Fujitsu big time, he helped me alot with the Ubuntu Chicago web site, and helping with bug triage, and the work he does for Ubuntu AU
<Seveas> why is all of launchpad SSL'ed?
<Seveas> (don't answer - too offtopic, sorry)
<elmo> fujitsu: eh, what are your translation karma points for?
<elmo> please don't say en_AU
<Fujitsu_> A bit of EO.
<Seveas> "G'day mate, welcome to Ubuntu"
<Fujitsu_> Not a whole lot, though.
<nixternal> hahahahaha
<elmo> ehm, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vpnc/+bug/53341
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53341 in vpnc "0.3.3+SVN20051028-3ubuntu1 no longer works" [Untriaged,Fix released]  
<elmo> Fujitsu: you did report that as a gcc bug, right?
<Fujitsu_> Hm, I didn't end up reporting that, no. Oops.
<elmo> ok, please do
<Fujitsu_> I'll file a bug in GCC's tracker, and add a gcc upstream task to the bug...
<elmo> anyway, ack from me
<Kamion> +1 for MOTU work, -0 for en_AU ;-)
<elmo> yeah, geez
<elmo> if I hadn't heard such good things about the AU loco team, I'd be like -0.5 for en_AU
<Kamion> I guess that tla en_AU locale has long been buried
<Kamion> the one that had "wanker" liberally sprinkled through the program's error messages
<Seveas> lol
<jono> hehe
<Surak> that "G'Day mate" should be recorded. It was a good one. :-)
<mako> yes, sounds fine
<Fujitsu_> en_AU translations are stopped for the moment, as there's no way to make it a subtranslation of en_GB, which it should be.
<mako> Fujitsu_: welcome :)
<LinuxBA> Fujitsu, Congrats
<Seveas> \o/ congratulations!
<mako> LinuxBA: you're up
<Fujitsu_> Thanks!
<nixternal> congrats Fujitsu!!!
<welshbyte> Fujitsu: good on yer :)
<Ubuntuser> :)
<LinuxBA> here
<Surak> congratulations, Fujitu)
<Dilago> ;)
<Surak> ops, Fujitsu_
<Ubuntuser> hehehe Maxtor?
<Ubuntuser> hehehe
<CypherBIOS> Ubuntuser: :P
<OgMaciel> :P
<LinuxBA> Hi My name is Alexandro Silva aka LinuxBA. I've been using GNU/Linux systems for about 8 years
<Fujitsu_> I was named after a hard disk >_<
<LinuxBA> I participate of the Official Brazilian Translation team Brazilian Security team as founding and others important teams in my country
<LinuxBA> I am a author of Ubuntu Brazilian's blog agregator, where I post some articles and news about Ubuntu to keep the community up-to-date about security news.
<LinuxBA> Today I work advocating the Ubuntu Linux in Bahia with apresentations at Universities and Foruns in my region.
<LinuxBA> I just recently helped the organization and ran the Ubuntu Brasil booth at the III Festival Software Livre da Bahia
<LinuxBA> I intend to work  into the development of tools to facilitate the work of security officers and system engineers. I also want to help the number of Ubuntu Servers at Bahia.
<LinuxBA> More info about me pleasesee my WikiPage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexandroSilva and my launchpad https://launchpad.net/people/penguim
<elmo> ok, seriously Team Brazil, stop claiming to be "Author of <planet>", it's entirely confusing my sorry excuse for a brain.  "Author on <planet>".  kthx.
<LinuxBA> uhaha
<Ubuntuser> hehehe
<Ubuntuser> oh yes.. 
<OgMaciel> LinuxBA is syndicated 
<CypherBIOS> elmo: our mistake ;)
<elmo> linuxba: what does the ubuntu brazillian security team do?
<KurtKraut> elmo, this is a problem of translation. When they mean 'author' they just want to say that they are colunists of this website.
<LinuxBA> its a new team
<Surak> elmo: the english grammar seems specially confusing for us on this.
<CypherBIOS> Surak: yep, is just!
<LinuxBA> bugs patch
<LinuxBA> secutrity infos
<OgMaciel> elmo, LinuxBA has started an awareness program whereby he translates all security related notices and makes them available to the community
<LinuxBA> and divulging  the Nubuntu Linux
<OgMaciel> elmo, but IMHO his strength lies in his advocacy
<LinuxBA> thanks Og
<Ubuntuser> in his lectures...
<Ubuntuser> good lectures about Security / Ubuntu
<OgMaciel> elmo, Ubuntuser, Surak  and LinuxBA among others are very active at their home state
<mako> elmo: the particualrly funny part is that one of them *is* an author of the brazilian planet
<mako> elmo: although he's already a member
<LinuxBA> mako, thanx
<OgMaciel> mako, :P
<Ubuntuser> the Evangelization, mako.. ;)
<OgMaciel> elmo, Kamion mako Bahia, LinuxBA's home state, is considered to be one of the "poor" states in Brazil... and they pretty much pay out of their pockers to do the evangelization
<OgMaciel> pockets
<OgMaciel> Spl4y went there to lend them a hand
<Ubuntuser> +1 OgMaciel 
<OgMaciel> and he also travelled out of his own expenses
<Ubuntuser> But nothing is impossible.. 
<OgMaciel> I'm here supporting LinuxBA for his advocacy
<CypherBIOS> LinuxBA makes a great job in advocacy and evangelization, really
<Spl4y> OgMaciel, two hands :)
<OgMaciel> Spl4y, hehehe :P
<Kamion> ok, I'm sorry but I need to go and get some coffee, I can't concentrate
<Kamion> please carry on without me and I'll catch up
<jono> LinuxBA, ping me with your blog RSS feed, will add you to Planet Advocacy :)
<Ubuntuser> :)
<LinuxBA> okay
<LinuxBA> thanx
<elmo> hmm, yeah, I should probably focus too, I seem to have started reading about bahia in wikipedia
<OgMaciel> elmo, hehehe
<LinuxBA> uhauha
<Seveas> heh
<Surak> As I told on his wiki, his lectures are quite crowded. People fight to see him talk. LinuxBA, have you ever though about charging people to hear you?
<ompaul> good luck to all, I have to go
<Seveas> Surak, paying scares people away
<mako> LinuxBA: you say you've done 100,000+ translations
* jono goes to make tea too
<mako> LinuxBA: you have that much karma, is that what you mean?
<LinuxBA> yes
<mako> i don't think you've translated 100,000 strings
<mako> i mean, it's absolutely possible
<mako> but your karma would be higher
<LinuxBA> ;-)
<Ubuntuser> The power of brazilians.. :)
<OgMaciel> hehe
<AlexRocha> ;)
<elmo> anyway, ack from me
* Kamion ingests caffeine
<Kamion> +1 for LinuxBA from me, particularly based on testimonials for advocacy
<Seveas> 2 down
<Seveas> and a meeting rapidly feeling the ill effects of time
<OgMaciel> hehehe
<jono> heh
<mako> yes, the advocacy stuff sounds great
<jono> I am feeling the burn right now
<mako> jono: i think...
<mako> you're up
<Kamion> ok, just jono and EtienneG to go
<jono> been a hell of a long day :P
<Surak> Congrats LinuxBA
<Seveas> mako, hat implies a +1 from you?
<jono> ok, should I go?
<LinuxBA> uahuahuahauhauhauhauha
<Ubuntuser> \o/ Bahia in fest!!! \o/ - Congrats my friend... you deserve!!!!!
<LinuxBA> uuahauhauhauha
<LinuxBA> uahuahuahauhauhauahuah
<LinuxBA> uahauhauhauhauhauhau
<Kamion> jono: yep
<LinuxBA> jiaajiajiajiajiajiaja
<Seveas> LinuxBA, drop it
<LinuxBA> uhahuahauhauhauhauahua
<LinuxBA> iajiajiaja
<mako> Seveas: yes, sorry, postiive vote for me
<jono> My name is Jono Bacon, I have been a long-time contributor and advocate of free software, and I recently started at Canonical as the Ubuntu Community Manager. My contributions to Ubuntu are fairly recent, and have mainly involved testing, feedback and writing the Official Ubuntu Book.
<AlexRocha> Congrats!!! LinuxBA :D
* Kamion ponders taking back that +1
<mako> jono: that's very concise
<jono> Outside Ubuntu I have been involved with a number of projects, including officially representing KDE in the UK, founding KDE Usability Study, KDE::Enterprise, Linux UK, Jokosher, Planet Advocacy, Wolves LUG, PHPWM, Infopoint and co-founding LUGRadio, LUGRadio Live 2005/2006 and more. I have also spoken around the world as an advocate at conferences and before starting at Canonical worked as a professional Open Source advocate for 
<jono> a UK government funded organisation for two years. I have worked to build the worldwide LUGradio community (approx 15,000 regular listeners, 700+ forum members) and a strong Jokosher community which is steaming ahead in its progress.
<mako> hah
<Kamion> please stop flooding, LinuxBA
<Dilago> Concreats, LinuxBA!!!
<jono> I am committed to Ubuntu, and as UCM I will be working with LoCo teams, edubuntu and education, refining team relations, developing upstream community relations, increasing community contributions/advocacy, resolving conflict, helping ubuntu marketing and other things. In my two days working in the role I have already worked on LoCo, education, marketing, merch and upstream relations issues.
<LinuxBA> sorry
<Ubuntuser> one more to Brasil - Bahia!!!
<LinuxBA> felicity
<jono> I have a proven track record, and a proven committment to free software, and I am committed to making Ubuntu kick more ass than a guy with four legs and a pint of cider.
<jono> </end>
<Seveas> -1 for jono from me -- We should only support shaved bacon
<jono> Seveas, damn you!
<Burgwork> jono, sorry, but I just don't that you have done enough for ubuntu ;)
<jono> :P
<jenda> wow, not that concise anymore...
<LinuxBA> Surak, Ubuntuser OgMaciel  
<jenda> Jono has been very helpful and friendly when discussing DIY Marketing with me. Besides, I trust Canonical's joice 
<jono> heh
<LinuxBA> thanx
<mako> well, i worked for a long time with jono on the book
<LinuxBA> mucj thanx
<LinuxBA> much
<Burgwork> +1 from much
<Burgwork> s/much/me
<jono> Burgwork, heh
<jenda> hehe... ill effects of time, eh.
<Seveas> Burgwork, probably the 'much' is also correct
<Ubuntuser> i have to go.. good meeting!
<mako> and without him, it would have been a much worse (and much thinner) book
<Kamion> +1 for jono, kind of obviously; even without the employment contract his book contributions were sustained and significant
<elmo> jono: http://www.jokosher.org/ is broken
<mako> for FWIW, i fully endorse him for the the book work
<jono> bugger
<Kamion> looking forward to seeing the community prosper under his guidance
<moitio> elmo, heh, thats brilliant :)
* mako nods to Kamion 
<elmo> and yeah, ack from me for jono
* Seveas nods along
<mako> jono: welcome, looking forward to good stuff :)
<Seveas> 3 acks
<jenda> jono: congratulations, and good night ;)
<Seveas> Welcome aboard!
<jono> woo!
<jono> thanks guys
<jono> oh and elmo, you broke jokosher.org, damn you :P
<Kamion> say hi to the lugradio lot from us
<OgMaciel> congrats jono 
<Seveas> EtienneG, you're up
<jono> Kamion, will do :)
<EtienneG> here it is
<EtienneG> I have been a Ubuntu user since Warty
<EtienneG> I have been employed by Canonical as a support analyst in the Montreal office since July this year
<EtienneG> Which mean that I will get to come in contact with every interesting way Ubuntu can break eventually :)
<EtienneG> I have also been assigned some packaging responsabilities
<EtienneG> Notably, I am producing the debs of the latest release of bzr available on http://bazaar-vcs.org
<EtienneG> I have also produced the latest bzr/bzrtools packages for Edgy and dapper-updates
<EtienneG> which should find their way in the archive any time now
<EtienneG> In the recent past, I have been a huge Ubuntu advocate within my LUG and University
<EtienneG> and a huge abuser of the ShipIt service :)
<Kamion> (the most recent bzr failed to build, see your +packages page on launchpad)
<elmo> *giggle*
<EtienneG> (yeah I know, selftest break)
<EtienneG> I have distributed a few hundreds CD in LUG meeting, in the CS dept that I attended,
<mako> heh :)
<EtienneG> to co-workers and to acquaintance from the local public administration I was in contact with professionnally
<EtienneG> I was on sounders from March 2005 to April 2006 (I unsubscribe as the volume was just to high for me to keep up)
<EtienneG> My plan for Ubuntu are pretty simple
<EtienneG> I expect to continue contributing to the packaging of bzr for the foreseeable future
<EtienneG> As I get better at packaging, I would like to maintain a few packages in Universe eventually
<EtienneG> Since I provide professionnal service for Ubuntu, I expect to come in contact with a lot of bugs and problems from customers
<EtienneG> so I expect to be filing a lot bugs on behalf of customers in the future
<EtienneG> Thus, I take a close interest in QA
<EtienneG> If my schedule ever permit it (I work evening shift, not really good for RL meeting)
<EtienneG> I would really like to get involved in my LoCo
<EtienneG> it's somewhat dormant right now, I'd like to make it more active and visible
<EtienneG> In general, I am a lot into advocacy at the local level
<EtienneG> That's about it, thanks for considering me as a Ubuntu member !
<EtienneG> questions ?
<Kamion> it's good to see people from Canonical teams other than the distro get gradually sucked into Ubuntu ;-)
<jbailey> You stunned them into silence. =)
<EtienneG> hey !
<mako> Kamion: yes, definitely
<mako> jbailey: still reading
<elmo> ack from me
<Kamion> the actual contributions linked are shortish, but you didn't mention bzr/bzrtools on the wiki page, which I know is a reasonable chunk of work, so that helps
<EtienneG> Kamion, indeed, it's a work in progress
<EtienneG> I should have mentionned it
<Kamion> thank you for taking those on; they were languishing for a while there
<EtienneG> it's been an ... instructive experience 
<EtienneG> :)
<mako> jbailey: do you have a testimonial?
<Kamion> +1 from me for that and anticipated profserv help :-)
<mako> EtienneG: yeah, the page is a bit thin
<jbailey> mako: My testimonial is from the watched-him-with-customers side, so I'm not sure how best to present it.
<mako> i guess we can talk about it later..
<mako> i mean, the general case
<jbailey> mako: It's something that I don't think we've really looked at before, have we?  From the works-with-deploying-to-customers-around-the-world.
<jbailey> I don't mean it as a secret, but I'm not sure how to put it.
<mako> jbailey: no, we haven't
* mako nods
<mako> EtienneG: in any case, i'm happy accepting you as a member
<EtienneG> thanks !
<mako> alright then
<mako> that's it for this week
<jbailey> mako: I think it's probably an interesting case to consider, not just in the CAnonical case, but in the general case of support providers.
<mako> two weeks from today then
<jenda> theCore: you missed it :)
<jbailey> I don't know how it would be measured, though.
* mako nods to jbailey 
<theCore> jenda: *nod*
<mako> how about 12UTC
<Kamion> jbailey: yeah, it's a lot harder for extra-Canonical folks where we don't know their co-workers so well
<Seveas> please one week later
<Seveas> 2 weeks from now is eurooscon
<mako> Seveas: hmm
<jbailey> Kamion: I'll think on it and try to offer a proposal.
<mako> are any of the members going to eurooscon?
* Seveas is
<mako> the CC members?
<Seveas> sabdfl 
<Seveas> (according to the schedule I've seen)
<mako> right, but he won't make it in three weeks either ;)
<Seveas> heh
<jenda> Seveas: link?
<elmo> yeah, I suspect sabdfl is - it's on the calendar in the office
<elmo> unfortunately it being ONE AM, I don't have access to Avril to check sabdfl's schedule
<mako> alright
<Fujitsu_> One AM!? Urgh.
<mako> lets end this now
<Seveas> 2 AM here ;)
<Fujitsu_> 10am here :D
<mako> elmo: 12UTC in 2weeks work for you?
<elmo> mako: sure
<jbailey> elmo: You tell us this just to make the rest of us feel guilty for feeling tired. =)
<mako> with three weeks, the candidate list backs up
<mako> alright then
<mako> lets do that
<mako> Seveas: sorry you won't be able to make it
<Seveas> np -- there will be more meetings ;)
<elmo> I've done members in LP and members email.  is someone doing the wiki page?
<mako> elmo: thanks
<mako> i can if Seveas doesn't get to it first
<Seveas> elmo, not yet but I was planning to
<Fujitsu_> Members email?
<elmo> Seveas: ok, cool
<jono> right, I will toddle off to bed then
<jono> thanks chaps :)
<mako> Fujitsu_: we choose this time for you :)
<Seveas> g'night!
<mako> jono: g'night
<jono> night :)
<mako> my dinner is ready
<mako> so i'm off too
<Fujitsu_> See ya mako, jono.
<Seveas> bye mako
<EtienneG> see you gang
<Seveas> agenda updated, mail to 'old items' sent, will do the translation leader business tomorrow
<Seveas> 'night all (well, all that are still here)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<bieb> @schedule atlanta
<bieb> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 06 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<licio> Seveas, where are CC logs?
<BHSPitMonkey> CC?
* Hawkwind Stabs BHSPitMonkey
* Fujitsu_ arrests Hawkwind.
* BHSPitMonkey thanks Fujitsu 
* BHSPitMonkey breaks a bottle over Hawkwind while Fujitsu has him cuffed
<Hawkwind> BHSPitMonkey: What brings you here
<BHSPitMonkey> Hawkwind, I've been here for the duration of the meeting.
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm an ubuntu user, and I like to know what's up in the community.
<Hawkwind> BHSPitMonkey: Wasn't the meeting over quite some time ago
<Hawkwind> BHSPitMonkey: Ahhh, didn't know you used Ubuntu
<BHSPitMonkey> (Incidentally, I ended up being afk during the meeting)
<BHSPitMonkey> yeah
<BHSPitMonkey> I left mandriva a few months ago
<BHSPitMonkey> grew less and less happy with it
<Hawkwind> Same here.  June 1st to be exact
<BHSPitMonkey> heh
<BHSPitMonkey> dapper's release?
<Hawkwind> Stepped down as op and relinqueshed being alternate contact as well
<BHSPitMonkey> dapper's when I came in
<Hawkwind> Yeppers
<BHSPitMonkey> I actually downloaded breezy first, but dapper ended up coming out days later, so I never even used the breezy cd
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm about to start downloading knot 2
<BHSPitMonkey> so is SoS doing ubuntu packages at all? I haven't looked 
<Hawkwind> I ran Ubuntu when it first got released for a week or so on a spare box
<Hawkwind> I have Knot2 installed in vmware
<Hobbsee> --> #ubuntu-offtopic
<Hawkwind> BHSPitMonkey: Yeppers.  http://SeerOfSouls.com/ubuntu.html
<BHSPitMonkey> shunned.
<Hawkwind> BHSPitMonkey: Or #LFD :P
<Hobbsee> or that
<Hobbsee> this is supposed to be kept quiet when meetings arent on :P
<Hawkwind> The whip has been cracked
<BHSPitMonkey> Hobbsee, logging reasons?
<Hobbsee> BHSPitMonkey: yep
<BHSPitMonkey> gotcha
<flint>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY flint
<flint> Good Morning,  I  need to take someone to the airport this morning, so I will review this capture after I get back.  Talk to you in two weeks!
<Seveas> flint, you might want to change your password
<Fujitsu> Morning, Seveas.
<Seveas> morning Fujitsu 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Sep 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<RichEd> @schedule Johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<RichEd> greetz all
<pips1> hello
<RichEd> It's all very quiet ... Hands up please for the people actually here and participating ?
* RichEd puts his hand up
* pips1 puts his hand up too
<rodarvus> hi there
<rodarvus> I'm here, but not really
<rodarvus> feature freeze is in ~12 hours, and I need to finish one spec
<rodarvus> (likely the case for ogra too)
* ogra is here with half an eye and can give a quick tech status
<RichEd> Thought so ... rodarvus & ogra workiog against the freeze
<pips1> ah, the big rush.. 
<RichEd> Okay .. that's a good idea ...
<ogra> tech update:
<RichEd> I'll lead the meeting
<ogra> knot 2 is out 
<RichEd> Tech from Ogra, comments from rodarvus 
<ogra> with some bugs 
* jono puts his hand up
<RichEd> Then pips1 and I will do some structure stuff out in the open
<ogra> (i.e. localdev wont work without updating edubuntu-server)
<RichEd> With input form Jono
<RichEd> *from
* RichEd site down and leats ogra get on with it
<ogra> ltsp-login-and-session-handing was implemented tonight
* RichEd sits down and lets ogra get on with it (sorry)
<ogra> you are now able to select te locale and session you want from ldm
<ogra> works nicely with xfce gnome and KDE 
<ogra> the debian guys already promised me to patch it further to even work with strange things like fluxbox and icewm
<rodarvus> :)
<pips1> nice, desktop-independant!
<ogra> the locale and session aliasing will need improvement
<ogra> i.e. the language list is still something like: en_GB de_CH etc
<ogra> and te sessions could get more proper names than gnome-session or xfce4-session
<ogra> but thas cosetic, it works and is usable 
<ogra> *cosmetic
<ogra> i plan to revisit it before release
<ogra> currently i'm working on the dhcpd.autoconfiguration ...
<ogra> users wont have to touch a single file after install if thats implemented ...
<ogra> we can cut down the gettingstarted doc to a third ;)
<ogra> cbx33, has done awesome work on SCP
<jsgotangco> yay
* jsgotangco hugs cbx33
<ogra> a package with his encancements was uploaded today
<ogra> its still in universe thugh 
<ogra> but worst case we can live with that (in case pitti finds to much that keeps it out of main)
<ogra> at least we have the most beautiful teacher tool 
<ogra> and the one with the sexiest implementation (way beyond my lame spec)
<cbx33> sorry I'm late guys
<rodarvus> I've talked with pitti today (on unrelated subject)
<rodarvus> he is extremely busy
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<ogra> so everybody take a bow in front of cbx33, he really deserves it 
* Fujitsu bows to cbx33.
<rodarvus> and has about 10-15 packages on the MainInclusionQueue
<cbx33> ogra: two down.....two to go
* RichEd leads a round of applause
<ogra> :)
* Fujitsu follows RichEd.
<rodarvus> but I think cbx33 should put scp into the queue
<rodarvus> and hope for the best :)
<ogra> right
<cbx33> ok, I can't upload the latest version till I get home
<rodarvus> as ogra says, the worse that can happen is scp to remain in universe for edgy
<cbx33> unless someone can get it into universe for me
<ogra> as i said its not critical if the users have to install it from universe ... the important fact is that we have it at all ...
<ogra> and that its sooooo sexy :)
<cbx33> I'm really sorry guys :(
<cbx33> I should have worked a lot faster
<ogra> i'm waiting fro feedback from Amaranth about willowng 
<rodarvus> no, you don't need to be sorry, you did *great* work with scp
<rodarvus> cbx33, we are really proud of you!
<ogra> cbx33, huh ? 
<cbx33> *bah* I hate having to work on other stuff at my job
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> you ruled the world ... i wouldnt have been able to implement it faster
<cbx33> heh thanks guys
<ogra> you really really rock !
<ogra> ok, thats it from my side ...
<ogra> rodarvus, any news about the swapserver ? 
<ogra> oh, i forgot, LaserJock seems to have a sample implementation of the edubuntu-menu spec
<rodarvus> yes. backporting from ltspswapd failed. I'm working on reimplementing it from scratch
<rodarvus> and I'll have it ready today, one way or another
<ogra> thats what i thought 
<ogra> mdz insisted we use ltspswapd
<ogra> i wasnt happy about the idea from the beginning
<rodarvus> ltspswapd works fine, its just *too* different from nbd
<ogra> (he hasnt seen the code before)
<ogra> right
<ogra> i had a similar prob with ltspinfod for the lang/session stuff
<rodarvus> most of the stuff nbd has was stripped off, so it was a lot of pain to identify what was needed exactly
<ogra> (mdz wante me to use that, but its targeted to run on the client, not on the server)
<rodarvus> so, anyhow. implementation is progressing, hopefully I'll be able to upload in 4-6 hours
<ogra> cool
<ogra> dont forget to look if and what changes to ltsp are needed
<rodarvus> *nods*, I'll try to maintain the semantics, though
<ogra> i'm fine coding that tomorrow ...
<ogra> but you need to tell me whats needed ;)
<rodarvus> sure
<rodarvus> btw, tomorrow is a public holiday in Brazil
<rodarvus> so, I'll be back Friday, only
<rodarvus> (but I'll leave you an email on the swap server subject today)
* RichEd has told rodarvus to take the day off ... take a break in the sunshine
<rodarvus> RichEd, thanks :)
<ogra> RichEd, thats risky on freeze day :)
<cbx33> *GAH*
<cbx33> I can't log in to the LTSP server.....:( - I need this to test SCP
<RichEd> rodarvus will be 100% with the deadline work - just no extra requests that's the main thing
<ogra> yep, i didnt complain ;)
<rodarvus> :)
<RichEd> I've got a semi tech request from LaserJock for the freeze ... can I drop it in now ?
<jsgotangco> dum dum dee dum
<pips1> what is the status of the authentication-magic spec? (a ubuntu spec, rather than edubuntu) 
<pips1> I can't seem to find it in Launchpad at all
<ogra> RichEd, shoot
<ogra> pips1, i think its simpy called network-authentication
<RichEd> Right ... LaserJock is sorting out his dymanic menus ... and wants to know what should be in the Basic all users must have
<RichEd> He would like suggestions to add to:
<RichEd> Gedit
<RichEd> Firefox
<ogra> pips1, https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-authentication
<ajmitch> pips1: code is there but likely to be far too rough for main for edgy
<RichEd> He can't be at the meeting today, so he has asked me to field opinion
<cbx33> ogra: ssh isn't running
<ogra> start it ...
<pips1> ogra ajmitch thanks
<ogra> RichEd, i think he'd get wider feedback on the ML
<RichEd> I'll post there as well ...
<ajmitch> pips1: eg it may eat your children, burn down your house, or make your box unbootable :)
<ogra> but i think: evo, firefox, openoffice should be in every default
<RichEd> Anyone here willing to respond to an email directly ? He needs info by freeze time.
<pips1> ajmitch LOL
* RichEd is willing to take down names now if hands go up
<RichEd> Okay ... not much interest ... I'll post to list.
<pips1> ogra: openoffice all of them? or just oo writer?
<ogra> well, does that matter ? 
<ogra> if one is running you can start all the others
<ogra> so i'd opt for keeping the menu entris
<ogra> *entries
<rodarvus> pips1, all OOo programs run the same binary
<RichEd> The idea is a simple uncluttered basic applications. So my opinion would be OO Document & OO Spreadsheet
<ogra> right
<ogra> database isnt really needed
<ogra> impress could stay i think
<RichEd> as you said .. its there when the app is open, but applies to probably < 10 % users for quick launch
<ogra> i wonder why he lists gedit
<pips1> +1
<ogra> do we really want an editor in every default menu ? 
<RichEd> text editor - quick & dirty documents / notes
<ogra> i'D rather vote for the calculator
<RichEd> I use it all the time (MS name Notepad kind of sums it up)
* cbx33 too
<RichEd> good sugestion ogra
<pips1> gedit starts faster than oo, but I guess people want the text formatting features of oo...
<RichEd> pips1: if a teacher says take down these notes while you cut open a frog ... i'd go gedit, and format later
<cbx33> RichEd: ++
<ogra> i wouldnt ...
<jsgotangco> i think you still need a basic text editor
<jsgotangco> it still has uses
<ogra> simply because i dont want frog remainings on the keyboard
<jsgotangco> you download a text file, you open it with a text editor
<jsgotangco> not OOo
<jsgotangco> it doesn't even eat real estate space imo
<ogra> jsgotangco, i dont think the mime actions will be touched by the menu stuff
<ogra> so clicking a textfile will still open it in gedit
<ogra> you just dont have the menu entry
<jsgotangco> sure but it'll probably confuse people where the heck it came from
<ogra> right
<RichEd> okay summary:
<RichEd> * calculator
<RichEd> * firefox
<RichEd> * gedit
<RichEd> * oo document
<RichEd> * oo spreadsheet
<ogra> lets have gedit in the list
<ogra> evolution
<ogra> if we have a browser we should have a mailer too
<ogra> (and calendaring app etc)
<RichEd> noted ... good point
<RichEd> okay ... I think that is a good first response ... I've made notes and will send through edubuntu users for more comment
<RichEd> Thanks
<ogra> so our main menu would shrink to three sections :)
<ogra> that wil look quite weird :)
<ogra> but clean :)
<RichEd> let me give you the background from Jordan
<RichEd> <paste>
<jsgotangco> very weird
<RichEd> OK, so what I was thinking was having a basic .menu that would have the most common items straight in the Applications menu so users don't have to dig around submenus, then on top of that build subject-based submenus. Stuff like Science, Art, Math, Writing, etc. 
<RichEd> <end paste>
<jsgotangco> i think calculator should be included
<jsgotangco> err 
<jsgotangco> ignore me
* jsgotangco dies
<ogra> jsgotangco, morning
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i guess thats all from the tech side ...
* ogra hands the mic back to RichEd
<jsgotangco> i should update my edgy box
<pips1> as a rule-of-thumb in usability, try not to have more that 7 items in a list (hierarchy)...
<jsgotangco> can i ask something tech-ish?
<RichEd> jdub just pinged me rught now with this url: http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=1146
<RichEd> an email interview last week ... some good publicity for us :)
* RichEd waits for jsgotangco : go ahead
<jsgotangco> well i think most of you know i just moved to a new organization with a rather interesting roles
<jsgotangco> err role
<pips1> you did? tell us more..
<jsgotangco> pips1: planet.ubuntu.com
<ogra> pips1, you dont read planet ? 
<jsgotangco> ;)
* ajmitch runs to read planet updates
<jsgotangco> well we're going to get 300 PCs this weekend
<pips1> nah, I need to get my newsfeeds sorted out yet
<jsgotangco> i just want to ask how difficult would it be to make my own derivative with artwork stuff only changed and some stuff on yelp
<cbx33> ogra: I have replaced all your os.popen calls
<ogra> cbx33, thanks a lot !
<pips1> (I recently did a fresh install and still need to finish configuring thunderbird to the full)
<cbx33> jsgotangco: sounds like your talking about branding it?
<ogra> looking forward to upload it 
<jsgotangco> cbx33: bingo
<jsgotangco> but only for a proof of concept for now
<cbx33> ogra: they are all subprocesses now
<cbx33> jsgotangco: I started speccing up ubrander....
<ogra> jsgotangco, just take edubuntu-artwork an modify it
<cbx33> which was going to be a branding utility
<cbx33> which did exactly what ogra just said
<jsgotangco> i've done my own cds before but never added a custom package
<jsgotangco> i was thinking just changing what's inside an existing package
<cbx33> jsgotangco: :D
<jsgotangco> well anyway, just a heads up im basically working on edubuntu on an almost full time capacity but on a different role
<jsgotangco> RichEd knows all the details
<cbx33> nice jsgotangco ... me is working more and more on it
<cbx33> thought I shouldn't
<cbx33> I have a tonne of other work to do
<cbx33> but I don;t care
<cbx33> SCP is my concern right now
<pips1> jsgotangco: congrats!
<jsgotangco> its basically "go nuts" job type of thing
<cbx33> jsgotangco: lucky guy! 
<jsgotangco> anyway just to let you guys know
* jsgotangco hides in the shadows
* cbx33 has just tested 90% of SCP !
<cbx33> and it all works
<jsgotangco> ok brb
<cbx33> right next on the agenda ?
<RichEd> just come comments from me on jsgotangco and his new role:
<RichEd> it's an organisation workong with televisual education, moving towards ICT education
<RichEd> we've got a partner in the NEPAD eSchools Project doing similar in Africa - called mindset
<RichEd> we've got a user base in Thailand doing similar in - called sat-ed
<jsgotangco> but these two use proprietary technologies
<cbx33> wow excellent RichEd 
<RichEd> So I've linked all people in the same role in three orgnisations into a conversation to share lessons and plans moving forwards
<jsgotangco> we're going to attempt to do the same with a F/OSS model
<RichEd> So people like jsgotangco can show them how to move off "proprietary technologies"
<flint> RichEd, ...as in Windows...
<RichEd> The power of the community and brokering relationships at a "deliver results level" is as important as our great software platform
<cbx33> hi flint 
<ogra> flint, !!!!!!!!!!!!
<flint> Just got back from the Airport...
<RichEd> They go hand in hand for a complementary solution.
<ogra> nice to see you !
<RichEd> greetz flint.
<flint> ogra, thanks!
<flint> RichEd, same.  Doing things with Rivendel Radio and Edubuntu...
<flint> er Rivendell
<RichEd> great ,,, anything you can share now ... or later to me via email ?
<jsgotangco> ok i
<jsgotangco> ok i'll brb again
<RichEd> flint: web links etc. would be nice
<flint> Things are getting better here in Barre, Vermont.  I will have a lab up again in a few months..
<flint> TiddlyWiki...
<flint> RichEd,  TiddlyWiki is what I would use at this time.
<RichEd> okay.
<RichEd> Any docs / artwork news updates ?
<flint> RichEd, I am building the house to revise the documentation in... derivative, yes, but basicall on task. :^)
<pips1> hi flint (just reading up on your TW suggestion...)
<RichEd> Okay any other Agenda Items before I do Management / Community and then wrap ----
<flint> pips1, thanks for noticing.  most powerful...
* pips1 notes the silence re docs / artwork
<RichEd> --- management and community --- merged
<ogra> yeah, what about artwork ?
<cbx33> ok artwork
<ogra> official deadline would e tomorrow ... (i think we can slip that for edubuntu a bit)
<cbx33> Lisa has asked me to talk to you all today
<ogra> but it starts getting urgent
<cbx33> I understand that
<cbx33> so does Lisa
<cbx33> she has been mega swamped with paid work, but is getting through it
<cbx33> Jane, has been swamped too, and had other issues which meant she was unable to work a lot on it
<cbx33> I'm going to be helping out as soon as I finish SCP
<cbx33> the photo sessions went well
<ogra> right, rodarvus told me
<cbx33> until it started to rain
<cbx33> we got some photos we're manipulation them as we speak
<ogra> cool
<pips1> cbx33: looking forward to see them
<cbx33> Lisa was hoping for a little more input from the community on some of the wallpapers previously....but we'll get you something great
<pips1> cbx33: link for wallpapers?
<cbx33> I think it's been pretty bewildering .... she has been under a lot of stress from her bosses
<cbx33> pips1 I'll dig it out in a sec
<cbx33> basically we're pretty confident we'll deliver
<cbx33> splash/usplash/wallpaper
* ogra has only seen gdm and splash screens yet
<cbx33> and the two variants of the wallapaper for young/old themes
<cbx33> there was still contention on what exactly the usplash artwork could be formatted like
<cbx33> we have heard little back on that
<ogra> yeah, its likely to be more than 16 cols ... 
<ogra> but still not sure afaik
<cbx33> please please can we get that information
<cbx33> I have been trying on lisas behalf
<pips1> splash / gdm screens --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette 
<ogra> cbx33, ask mjg59 
<cbx33> as I know a lot of the artwork people
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> oh and the new ubuntusounds will be in knot3 :D
<pips1> wallpaper (?) --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Worksheet
<ogra> pips1, right thats what i know as well... but no wallpapers
<ogra> oh, right
<cbx33> that was the manga-esque wallapaper
<cbx33> possibly for use in the young theme
<ogra> has a slight religious touch ...
<cbx33> you think?
<cbx33> it was meant to show power of ubuntu
<flint> cbx33, could you try a wild idea of for me?
<cbx33> heheh
<RichEd> maybe "one love religious" but certainly not worship a specific flavour of deity .. so I'm okay with that
<cbx33> I'm not dacing on the table with a chainsaw in my hand
<ogra> oh, btw, this meeting is an EC meeting ....
<flint> cbx33, Na, I did that already, this is an art theme idea.  try a "wizards" theme
* ogra nearly forgot that
<cbx33> wizards?
<flint> :^)
<ogra> we'll have to process membership candidates if there are any
<flint> please just ask Lisa to try it... 
<flint> ogra, Ollie I never give up!
<cbx33> ok I'll ask her
<cbx33> if she has time
<flint> cbx33, it is for me less about the time and more about the goodness of inspiration... 
<flint> cbx33, I do like the tree in the background. That is very good.
<cbx33> flint: I can but ask
<cbx33> I hope to have some artowkr to show by Friday
<cbx33> We'll try for late thurs actually
<flint> ogra, Ollie, do you think Lisa could add a dash of Wicken to satisfy your religious proclivities?
<flint> :^)
<cbx33> ogra: would it help if I emailed you the latest 0.41 release of SCP to be uploaded to universe - I can't upload anywhere, due to the schools restrictions
<ogra> sure
<flint> cbx I came late.  SCP is Secure Copy Program eh?
<cbx33> what files do you want?
<cbx33> Student Control Panel
<ogra> i need orig.tar.gz, .dsc and diff.gz
<cbx33> ok got it
<cbx33> I'll get them to you ASAP
<ogra> ad add a proper changelog entyr ;)
<ogra> *entry
<flint> Oh, sorry... of course...
<pips1> erm, the meeting is kind of fizzling... thrown sideways by flint, as usual ;-)
<cbx33> ogra: - dude, already done :p
<flint> pips1, it is my job... thanks!
<pips1> hehe
<flint> RichEd, I suspect I have done enough damage to your agenda, where were we?
<RichEd> --- management and community --- last section 
* jono 's ears prick up
<jono> :P
<RichEd> As per the meeting last week ... all division heads have prepared a 1 year strategic plan for review over October by mark
<ogra> RichEd, and edubuntu council afterwards in case we have applicants for membership ...
<ogra> (its the first meeting in the month)
<RichEd> It internal until the review is done, but will make its way to public when review is complete.
* RichEd notes ogra comments
<RichEd> This planning is leading to a structure which is emerging nicely, and various discussions are helping shape this.
<RichEd> Notably : Jono Bacon our new Community Manager .... welcome to jono who started on Monday !
<pips1> hi jono
<cbx33> JONO !!!
<cbx33> hey dude
<jono> :)
<RichEd> cbx33 is giving input from his side, as a community member and "school IT staff member"
<ogra> hey jono 
<jono> heya
<RichEd> and importantly, our web volunteer pips1 who is playing an important role
<jono> cool
<jono> I think we need to talk about LoCo teams and education at some point
<RichEd> The first big focus is:
<highvoltage> hi everyone
<highvoltage> sorry for missing the meeting
<RichEd> * identify our categories of Ubuntu Education users and Edubntu users
* highvoltage had a meeting for SFD IRL
<pips1> hi highvoltage, it's still going on
<RichEd> * profile the categories to analyse needs
<ogra> highvoltage, and its EC meeting day ...
<RichEd> And then built a welcoming front for each type of category.
<cbx33> ogra: email on it's way
<cbx33> brb guys
<RichEd> This approach will allow us to grow our community, and create spaces for common conversations.
<highvoltage> ogra: any candidates today? I saw one person signing up for the members team, but didn't know them, and his activity also seemed low
<RichEd> So pips and I will release a link at the next meeting, with the structure in a publically accessible location
<ogra> highvoltage, right ... but RichEd should probably apply :)
<highvoltage> +1!
<RichEd> Detailing the focus points moving forwards. We'll chat it through at the meeting, and solicit comments.
<RichEd> From next week on, there will be be a place that anyone can see what top level activities are planned.
<RichEd> And offer comments, suggestions, or opposing viewpoints.
<cbx33> hehehe
<RichEd> So I'll leave it for now ... with one last request:
<RichEd> Who here would like to add input to our initial list of user categories ? It would require a 5 minute email response.
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> good call RichEd 
<jsgotangco> oh wow
<jsgotangco> I FORGOT ITS EC DAY
<flint> RichEd, send it to me.  I would be interested... flint@flint.com
* jsgotangco is shamed
<RichEd> Please email me at richard.edubuntu@gmail.com if you would like to be in the list.
<cbx33> ogra: sorry to change the subject slightly...now we have removed all os.popen calls
<jono> jsgotangco, thanks for the mail to loco-contacts btw :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: don't feel too bad, I missed about 90% of it too
<RichEd> Strange things pop out from different people ... like iCafe's that run Edubuntu becuase of LTSP
<cbx33> shall we put SCP for main inclusion?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: go nuts
<highvoltage> RichEd: there are quite a number of them
<RichEd> Things we don't normally immediately associate with Education
<highvoltage> RichEd: we're rolling out a 1000 of them next year
<cbx33> anyone who wants to check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionStudentControlPanel :D
<RichEd> nice .... veryhighvoltage !
<cbx33> highvoltage: 0.o
<ogra> cbx33, yes ! :)
<RichEd> And my last comment for today ... been getting around to setting up a blog of the person behind the nick ...
<cbx33> does the report look ok?
<ogra> cbx33, probably remove the reference t bootchart at the top ;)
<cbx33> doh !
<RichEd> And now jono is nagging me ... so it will be up asap to get him off my back ;)
<ogra> and drop the build-depends note
<flint> highvoltage, Jonathan, this looks very good.
<jono> RichEd, :P
<RichEd> I'll let you know where it is located 1) on the fridge 2) in the next meeting
<pips1> RichEd :)
<RichEd> This got lost above: 'Open source firmly on education agenda' http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=1146
<cbx33> ogra: done
<jsgotangco> yeah yeah we all know you're now a star
<jsgotangco> heh
<RichEd> An interview done via email 2 weeks ago ... made its way to live.
<cbx33> I'll add it to the list
<RichEd> --- okay I'm done ----
<RichEd> Comments ? Questions ?
<RichEd> Or else we can move onto council. Who runs that ?
<cbx33> ogra: where's thelist to add it to?
<ogra> cbx33, fine, add it to the queue
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
<jsgotangco> do we have council qorum
<ogra> RichEd, well, usually me ... or JaneW :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, we'Re three of five
<ogra> (yes she's still a council member)
<jsgotangco> cool i get to exercise my voting powers again
<jsgotangco> muhahaha
<jsgotangco> after having all these EC meetings at 4am
<RichEd> well you can just add a Mr in front to make it Mr JaneW
<highvoltage> i'd like to make a suggestion
<ogra> not before MrJaneW has his membership :P
<ogra> highvoltage, shoot
<highvoltage> sorry, lost my connection there for a while
<highvoltage> perhaps we should extent the EC again by the end of next month?
<highvoltage> i think there are worthy candidates
<ogra> why ? we never had quorum probs yet
<ogra> or do you mean extending the meeting frequency ? 
<highvoltage> and we wanted it more than 5 initially
<highvoltage> ogra: extending EC members
<jsgotangco> we do?
<ogra> i think 5 is totally sufficient
<ogra> but we need to replace JaneW's position if she cant participate anymore
<highvoltage> ok, no problem then. I just remember you saying we should ideally have more than 5, gra
<highvoltage> yep
<ogra> i only said we should have more community members than employees
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> which led to 5 with two employed members
<jsgotangco> but since JaneW is not employed anymore thats 4 against 1
<ogra> and as long as we dont face quorum probs, we should go on as is
* ogra feels alone now
<jsgotangco> let's discuss it again if we encounter quorum issues
<ogra> right
<ogra> soooo
<RichEd> I don't think JaneW has daytime IRC access out of her new office
<highvoltage> ok, that sounds logical
<jsgotangco> we're spread enough to get quorum
<ogra> ANY MEMBER CANDIDATES AROUND ????????
<RichEd> jono ?
<ogra> jono became ubuntu member yesterday iirc
<highvoltage> RichEd: can you please sign your ubuntu CoC?
<ogra> if he applies for edubuntu membership as well we dont need to vote, just enabling him is fine here
<RichEd> highvoltage: sure ... i'm happy to go through the necessary steps required
<ogra> right, RichEd you will need a wikipage outlining your contributions and a signed CoC
<RichEd> okay ... i wasn't sure previously if the contri's had to be technical ...
<RichEd> mine will be more under guidance and relationships
<highvoltage> RichEd: things like that tectonic artile also counts- it's advocacy
<highvoltage> RichEd: so list every thing you can think of
<RichEd> fine ... will sort it out this evening
<jsgotangco> go sulk first lol
<ogra> we can have an extraordinary EC meeting fo you if you are done and quorum is around ...
<RichEd> I'm done ...
<ogra> ok, seems the EC to for today
<jsgotangco> bleah
<jsgotangco> no action
* jsgotangco nominates self for extraordinary membership
<ogra> jsgotangco, make  suggestion 
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: calm before the storm :)
<ogra> something we can vote on ...
<RichEd> why does the edubuntu wiki take me to a ubuntu community council page ? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/CommunityCouncil
<jsgotangco> okay let's vote if cbx33 is your daddy or not
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> RichEd: it's the same wiki
<highvoltage> try /EdubuntuCouncil
<RichEd> :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, my daddy ? 
<ogra> or whose ? 
* RichEd is older than cbx33 so unless he can come back in time ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> RichEd: lol!!
* ogra too
<pips1> highvoltage: I also can't find the Edubuntu Council wiki page.... where is it?
<cbx33> hmmm....
* highvoltage checks
* cbx33 gets to work on the SCP powered time machine
<jsgotangco> anyways
<jsgotangco> if EC is done i have a query
<pips1> ah https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<cbx33> thank you to everyone who helped on SCP, it was a massive community effort
<pips1> highvoltage: I found it ^^^
<highvoltage> that's the one :)
<ogra> cbx33, no, it was your effort with some community help :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: you should blog about it :)
<ogra> ++
<cbx33> I was going to
<cbx33> now that 0.4 is in universe
<ogra> feel free to quote my last sentence in bold letters ;)
<cbx33> ogra: ping me when 0.41 gets in and I will
<ogra> you tested it ? 
<rodarvus> cbx33, are you going to call it 0.41 or 0.4.1?
<jsgotangco> what's the package name?
<pips1> phew, this meeting took 2 hours..! 
<cbx33> Ja, I mailed you the 0.41 release files
<rodarvus> 0.41 > 0.5
<pips1> moving to #edubuntu
<highvoltage> "++" ?
<ogra> cool
<jsgotangco> last queryyyyy
<ogra> highvoltage, :P
<cbx33> once you have uploaded 0.41 I'll blog about it
<jsgotangco> psstt
<ogra> cbx33, oh, rodarvus is right 
<ogra> make that 0.4.1 
<pips1> jsgotangco: ?
<ogra> 41 > 5
<cbx33> want me to rebuild?
<jsgotangco> edubuntu website
<ogra> yes please
<cbx33> *bah* :p
<jsgotangco> what's the mastah plan
<ogra> sorry
<ogra> i should have spotted that
<RichEd> still can't find that edubuntu council page ...
<ogra> i dont think there is one
<ogra> unless any EC member made one 
<ogra> there is only a LP page 
<highvoltage> RichEd: check the page that pips1 pasted
<pips1> jsgotangco: the master plan will evolve... as RichEd said, we will start with identifying the user groups...
<cbx33> ogra: done and emailed !
<highvoltage> RichEd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<RichEd> did that ... takes me to : https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
<cbx33> brb
<pips1> ^^^^ Membership Candidates are supposed to list themselves at the bottom of the Meeting Agenda  page
<ogra> cbx33, thanks
<pips1> .... in the wiki, not in Launpad. LP lists all people that have been accepted, afaik
<jsgotangco> brb
<highvoltage> meeting adjourned?
<pips1> I guess so... I need to go... bye everyone.
<jono> sorry was on the phone
<jono> I have a meeting in 10 mins
<RichEd-1> lost my adsl ... just back now ... where do we stand with the vote / nominate 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Sep 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<Hawkwind> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 07 Sep 16:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 07:00: Community Council
<niKsternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 07 Sep 16:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 07:00: Community Council
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 07 Sep 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council
* mdke looks around for documenters
<lloydinho> Yo, mdke !
<mdke> hi lloydinho 
<mdke> who else is here?
<lloydinho> uhm.. jjesse was ready for meeting just a minute ago.
<mdke> let's hang around and see if anyone else turns up
<lloydinho> for some reason the meeting isn't announced by Ubugtu 
<lloydinho> slightly confuzzling.
<mdke> i 
<mdke> c
<mdke> it's been on the fridge though, and those who read the list should know about it, and they are the ones that count :)
<lloydinho> true. I'm sure they're around, though.
<lloydinho> At least a couple of them. Who would we expect to be here?
<mdke> no idea
<Seveas> the doc meeting isn't being announced because accordint to the fridge it's in #ubuntu-doc and not in here
<lloydinho> hmm
<lloydinho> this is unfortunate. We really did need to have a meeting.
<jjesse> i'm here
<jjesse> sorry was in another window
<mdke> Seveas: ok, np
<lloydinho> mdke, jjesse : Meeting in ubuntu-doc after all?
<jjesse> i can move there
<mdke> yeah, let's talk through the issues informally
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-07
<brendonjt> !meeting-auckland
<Burgwork> @now auckland
<Ubugtu> Current time in Pacific/Auckland: September 07 2006, 11:57:51 - Next meeting: Kubuntu in 21 hours 2 minutes
<Burgwork> @schedule auckland
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Pacific/Auckland: 08 Sep 09:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 08:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Sep 00:00: Community Council
<Burgwork> brendonjt, that should be what you need
<brendonjt> cool thanks 
<Hiko> Aloha
<brendonjt> how was the meeting  on wednesday?
<Burgundavia> brendonjt: which meeting? this channel is only for the actual meetings and is thus used by many teams
<brendonjt> CC meeting
<Burgundavia> brendonjt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/CC-2006-9-5
<brendonjt> what is the @ command to find out the meeting time for your time zone
<Burgundavia> @now auckland
<Ubugtu> Current time in Pacific/Auckland: September 07 2006, 17:04:17 - Next meeting: Kubuntu in 15 hours 55 minutes
<Burgundavia> @schedule auckland
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Pacific/Auckland: 08 Sep 09:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 08:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Sep 00:00: Community Council
<brendonjt> thankyou
<Burgundavia> no worries
<Burgundavia> I am also Burgwork
<Lure> @schedule
<Ubug2> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Sep 21:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council
<Lure> @schedule ljubljana
<Ubug2> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council
<kdw>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY wdkchat
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<ryanakca> eh? I missesd the kubuunt umeeting?
<Jucato> O_O
<Hawkwind> ryanakca: No, 9 minutes
<ryanakca> so it starts in 9? or I've missed it? (I'm just wondering because Ubugtu changed the topic)
<ryanakca> missed 9 minutes that is
<Hawkwind> It starts in 9 minutes
<Hawkwind> He changes the topic 10 minutes before the meeting starts
<ryanakca> ah
<Hawkwind> Yaaaaayyyyyy for abattoir
* Jucato jumps up and down, bends backwards, and does a sommersault for abattoir
<abattoir> the meeting hasnt started yet, has it?
<Hawkwind> abattoir: 4 minutes
<Hawkwind> @time
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 07 2006, 20:55:44 - Current meeting: Kubuntu
<Jucato> not yet... we've been wating for you :)
<Jucato> that's why it hasn't started :)
<abattoir> on time, i guess then :)
<nixternal> jeesh, countin' down like you are waiting for your methadone shots
<Jucato> lol
<claydoh> wow I made it :)
<Jucato> lol
<Hawkwind> Wow, so you did :)
* claydoh usually works a 12-13 hr day on Thursdays
* Jucato wonders what "work" is...
* lupine_85 sits in the corner quietly
<Riddell> good evening all
<Hawkwind> Good afternoon
<Jucato> morning! :)
<Riddell> how many council members do we have here?
<Riddell> Tonio_? allee? 
* allee is here
<nixternal> well hello there everbody!
<Riddell> hobbsee seems to be asleep
<Tonio_> Riddell: mother at phone, back in 3 minutes approx :)
<Riddell> hmm, we need three for membership stuff, need to wait until Tonio_ or someone turns up
<Riddell> ah, Tonio_!
<nixternal> hehe
<allee> toma ping?
<Tonio_> Riddell: just 3 minutes, let him introduce, I'm reading at the same time
<Riddell> ok, fabo here?
* fabo is here
<allee> hi fabo
<fabo> hi allee , all :)
<Riddell> fabo: do you have a wiki page?
<fabo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FathiBoudra
<kwwii> I am, of course, hee
<kwwii> here
<allee> hi kwwii 
<Riddell> fabo: got a couple of lines to introduce yourself?
<fabo> sure
<fabo> so my name is fathi ;)
<fabo> i contribute on debian and kubuntu
<fabo> following KDE stuff
<fabo> already memnber of debian qt/kde and kde extras team
<toma> fabo: where do you get the time to do all that debian work?
<fabo> toma: i work in a company that allow me to do some distro stuff
<toma> oh cool
<allee> great
<Tonio_> fabo: quite a lot of chance :)
* ryanakca is jelous
<fabo> so this is the bug lines ... ;)
<fabo> big
<Riddell> fabo: are you satisfied with the way we communicate changes in kubuntu packages back to debian?
<fabo> Riddell: yes but i hate launchpad ;)
<Tonio_> fabo: technical reasons ?
<fabo> i'm use often mail interface, and launchpad is really a web interface
<fabo> -'m
<Tonio_> fabo: launchpad is able to send mails too ;)
<Riddell> each to their own, I can't stand e-mail as an application interface
<Tonio_> fabo: what do you think we should do to improve the communication between kubuntu and debian ?
<fabo> i tried to follow the wiki page about mail interface but seems buggy
<fabo> Tonio_: some time ago i found an rss feed that return ubuntu patch
<fabo> quite usefull
* fabo search url
<allee> fabo: why did you decide to work too on Kubuntu in addition to debian?
<Tonio_> fabo: interesting, I didn't heard about that
<toma> good question
<fabo> allee: because i'm a kde desktop guy and debian lack on this part
<fabo> kde is more polished for end user for the desktop
* toma has counted 60 commits in august for fabo within kde-extra's
<Riddell> ok, time for votes I think
<toma> fabo: so you want to move away from debian?
<Tonio_> ok for me since fabo contributed consistenly on packages, like kaffeine + many more
<fabo> toma: never :)
<toma> ;-)
<fabo> toma: from my wiki page : I'm sharing utnubu ideas, i like Debian/Kubuntu, both worlds, i don't want to choose between the two and a big KDE addict.
<Tonio_> although it is important to make the debian/kubuntu link strong and fabo is greatly improving this
<toma> i agree to that
* allee +1.  I know his work from kde-extras group.  He has definitly the more than enough skill.  My only wish, that he will be as aktive in Kubuntu as in Debian
<toma> but i've not seen fabo very presently on irc or somethign
<Riddell> +1 from me for a long list of packages and for making the cmake.mk cdbs file which workead perfectly in my kde 4 packages
<Riddell> toma: he is on irc a good bit
<fabo> toma: i agree, unfortunately i've got more than 40 channel to follow :)
<Tonio_> toma: he sometimes reguarding to the packages he maintains, and I can confirm he follows their good working in kubuntu
<allee> fabo: crazy
<Tonio_> fabo: welcome aboard :)
<fabo> thanks all :)
<Riddell> did toma vote?
<toma> +1 for me, for the work i know from debian and hope to see the same in kubuntu ;-)
<allee> fabo: congrats
<Riddell> yay!
<toma> yes ;-)
<fabo> :))
<ryanakca> congrats :))
<toma> fabo: did you sign the coc ?
<fabo> toma: yes
<toma> k
<Riddell> thanks for helping fabo 
<Riddell> seaLne: about?
<seaLne> yes
<Riddell> your item
<Riddell> likeback
<seaLne> is [WWW]  likeback worth considering? apparently kde-core-devel is considering something similar/different 
<ryanakca> toma: don't you have to? (If your going to upload to the repos that is)
<allee> ryanakca: he's not a MOTU (yet)
<toma> ryanakca: yes, i have one app running with likeback
<seaLne> i'm not sure how many of you have seen http://basket.kde.org/likeback.php but it seems like a good idea to get granular feedback
<Riddell> this is a quick feedback mechanism for users to developers
<toma> ryanakca: but it is small and have not got any reactions
<Riddell> I'm not sure where we'd put a "Kubuntu likeback" option though
<toma> Riddell: we could do a knot release with likeback generallly enabled
<ryanakca> ah
<seaLne> in basket it just sort of floats in the app being a bit annoying
<seaLne> yeah i don't think it would be suitable for final releases
<Riddell> it should be in the About box for an app, but for general kubuntu feedback I don't know
<Riddell> and then of course where would it go and who would process it
<allee> I would consider it nice to have.  But not worth the trouble at this stage or if it need  time or some risk
<seaLne> one of the problems would be potentially dealing with lots of feedback
<seaLne> yeah, maybe just worth keeping an eye on the progress of similar ideas
<allee> we have already enough feedback, haven't we? ;)
<toma> Riddell: the idea is that the user can give feedback on each dialog of an app, so putting it in the about seems useless
<Riddell> yes, we do already get quite a bit of feedback on wiki pages and elsewhere
<Riddell> toma: oh, didn't realise that
<Riddell> that could all add up to a lot of feedback
<seaLne> ah have you not seen it? yeah thats the good part so feedback is about specific things
<toma> Riddell: that way people can give direct feedback about spelling errors etc
<Riddell> right
<Tonio_> hum, my questionning would be : how to filter all the information ?
<allee> Maybe 'enable feedback' in About to turn it on/off when needed.  quite some space for a feature one can't use all the time
<yuriy> seems like a nice thing for individual applications to send to their developers, i don't think it'd work well centralized and/or for a distro
<Tonio_> we should take care of that, since we already have forums, irc, mailing lists, wiki....
<seaLne> http://basket.kde.org/likeback-data/icons.png shows how its on dialogs
<Riddell> well if someone wants to code that so it's easy to add to apps that sounds fun, but it's not worth putting lots of time in to implement ourselves
<toma> this is a live demo of the backend http://toma.kovoks.nl/admin/view.php
<toma> i opened it up i hope
<toma> dont mess around please ;-)
<toma> just to give you an idea
<Riddell> interesting
<toma> you can quickly close them and pick out the things you want to fix
<toma> i think you will receive feedback you would not get in another way
<ryanakca> toma: looks nice
<Riddell> toma: is it easy to add to applications?
<toma> Riddell: yes, just hang it in the main.cc 
<toma> Riddell: i think i can add it to kapplication to get it globally
<Riddell> hmm, we'd need python bindings for most of our apps :)
<toma> maybe not if we put it in kapplication?
<Tonio_> toma: isn't there a risk that all bugs are reported there and miss launchpad ?
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> sorry i'm late, traffic
<Riddell> hi imbrandon, raphink 
<toma> Tonio_: yes, we would need to forward port the real bugs to launchpad
<kwwii> Here is my part: who wants to help write the C code for the new usplash theme?
<Tonio_> toma: I must say that's technically interesting, but I'm affraid that generates 90% of useless complains for 2% of interesting feedback
<ryanakca> toma: like manually or automaticly? (automaticly I presume? manually would be a pain)
<seaLne> presumably you'd just click something and it would do it
<toma> ryanakca: its only for a knot release, and we can disable the bugreport feature
<ryanakca> Tonio_: yeah
<Tonio_> this is generally what happens when you ask people their thoughts, only crying pupils are responding... that's why I really doubt that's make us more efficient
<sladen> kwwii: you shouldn't need to write /any/ C code
<toma> ryanakca: so people can only send likes and dislikes
<raphink> hi Riddell
<toma> ryanakca: but if we can automate it: fine
<kwwii> sladen: you do if you want to have fun :-)
<sladen> kwwii: is a structure (think, configure file) with things like "font-name", "width", "height"
<seaLne> toma: exciting launchpad xml-rpc stuff :)
<imbrandon> sladen, i think Seveas said that the new stuff is code based
<kwwii> well, my idea was to draw stuff using the primitive
<Tonio_> ho sladen, happy to see you there, may I take 5 minutes of your time after the meeting ?
<kwwii> so create a progress bar with a nice gradient using something like 6-8 boxes
<ryanakca> oooh :) sounds interesting 
<kwwii> I am just now dipping into what is involved, but having someone who commits to helping would be nice ;-)
<Riddell> this is off topic, we need to move on, if there's specific apps that can use likeback that would be fun for testing
<Riddell> Lure: about?
<Seveas> sladen, shinyness comes with neding more effort 
<Seveas> (/me will be silent again)
<Riddell> digikam, yes but we need someone to do the other main inclusion reports, volunteers welcome
<ryanakca> kwwii: I can't code... but I'm glad to try to help... and I think we're offtopic, I'll talk to you in -devel later, k?
<ryanakca> sorry, but main inclusioon report?
<Riddell> ryanakca: a quickish report for sanity before packages can be moved from universe to main
<Tonio_> Riddell: digikam provides an image viewer
<Riddell> ryanakca: I'll happily guide you through it if you want to volunteer
<Tonio_> so if we don't want to duplicate gwenview, I would suggest to split the package first
<kwwii> ryanakca: sounds great
<Riddell> Tonio_: agreed
<Tonio_> because this image viewer is very primitive
<toma> Tonio_: ?
<imbrandon> kwwii, i can help soem also, sorry , i'm laggin a bit, and a bit late
<toma> Tonio_: showfoto is far from primitive
<allee> Riddell: I've talked with Gilles, lead digikam developer, we conclused that 0.9 is not a good idea code wise before 0.9 rc1 and only with rc1 i18n strings are frozen.  docs still in progress to be written
<seaLne> Tonio_: dosen't digikam need its viewer?
<Tonio_> toma: compared to gwenview it is
<Tonio_> seaLne: no
<allee> Tonio_: showfoto is designed to be an image editor not as a viewer
<toma> Tonio_: try 0.9 ;-)
<allee> s/image/photo/
<Tonio_> allee: we already ship with krita and gwenview, so I doubt showphoto is really a must have
<Tonio_> toma: the point is we want to avoid duplicate stuff for simplicity
<toma> Tonio_: sure
<Tonio_> I think 90% of the people installing digikam are not interested by showphoto
<fabo> agreed with tonio on this point
<Tonio_> we should in my view split the package and recomment or suggest showphoto
<allee> Tonio_: I connected  image to photo
<imbrandon> what about digital camera support though
<toma> allee: when is rc1?
<allee> toma: plan for mid october
<Riddell> too late for us
<allee> Riddell: yes
<toma> ok, we can move on then?
<Riddell> yep, volunteers welcome as I say
<allee> Tonio_: I agree with the usage.  but a showfoto pkgs with just have the binary and an icon.  Not worth the trouble imho
<imbrandon> Riddell, volunteers for ?
<Riddell> imbrandon: for the main inclusion reports
<Tonio_> allee: I agree, but that needs to be done before main inclusion report is written
<Tonio_> Riddell: I volunteer for the job if you are okay
<Riddell> Tonio_: rocking :)
<Riddell> ok, moving on
<Riddell> gdb, dunno how much space that takes up
* Tonio_ adds to todo list :)
<kwwii> ryanakca: sounds great
<kwwii> oops
<Riddell> if it's not too much I don't mind, we already had it for hoary 
<allee> Tonio_: get and alioth account and submit changes directly ;)
<imbrandon> Tonio_, poke me if you need a hand also i can do /some/ of them
<Tonio_> imbrandon: sure, thanks a lot :)
<toma> valid backtraces are crucial
<toma> for developers
<Riddell> "Should power button on laptops show logout/shutdown/suspend/hibernate dialog instead of just calling shutdown"  yes please
<Tonio_> Riddell: note that it seems to me digikam has universe deps....
<Tonio_> but let move on
<Riddell> Tonio_: well yes, that's why we need mai inclusion reports
<toma> Tonio_: 0.9 will add more ;-)
<allee> gdb is of not much use without the -dbg pkgs.  So need a mechnisn to load the -dbg msg on demand and then it should not be hard to install gdb also
<Tonio_> toma: argh...
<Riddell> I'm not sure what sort of signal the power button sends to userspace, but that should be picked up by power manager
<imbrandon> yea +1 on the logout instead of shutdown thing from me
<Riddell> allee: that's a point
<Tonio_> Riddell: +1 for me, that's usefull for people that are discovering laptop usage
<Tonio_> it'll help them discovering suspending functionnalities
<toma> allee: yes, gdb depend on all -dbg packages
<Burgwork> Riddell, the signal depends on the laptop, mostly it is acpi signals
<allee> toma: argl
<Riddell> Burgwork: and doesn't acpi-support convert that into something standard?
<Riddell> sladen: do you know?
<imbrandon> i'm sure it does as *cough*windows*cough* does it 
<Riddell> ok, we'll look into that
<Riddell> fabo: your item
<Burgwork> Riddell, it should. That is why mjg59 exists
<fabo> Strigi as Kubuntu File Search application ?
<toma> isn't there a beegle thingie already?
<fabo> we've got beagle/kerry atm
<imbrandon> imho i think we should use kerry/beagle
<Tonio_> hum, we need a search application and beagle packages are not splitted curently
<imbrandon> as ubuntu uses ( and alot of other people ) use the beagle backend
<Riddell> I'd really rather not have to depend on mono
<Tonio_> so that they have lots of gnome dependancies
<Riddell> hi Hobbsee 
<Tonio_> that's an issue that prevents us from using beagle stuff
<Riddell> strigi seems nice but when I used it it seemed unreliable
<imbrandon> Tonio_, well beagle backend and kerry frond end 
<Riddell> and as with all these things the indexing takes ages and lots of disk space
<imbrandon> Riddell, no mono ? ouch
<Tonio_> imbrandon: beagle depends on gnome currently, that's the point...
<fabo> the good point for beagle is just that it is used by ubuntu
<Hobbsee> shoot, sorry guys
<Riddell> but I think it's worth considering for edgy+1
* Hobbsee goes to look up how much she's missed
<allee> sharing a technology between gnome/kde is good as long as there not something kde'ish that much better (disclaimer: I do not know if strigi is superior)
<Tonio_> strigi is very interesting I must say, but it looks fairly limited compared to what beagle+kerry/kio-beagle can provide
<imbrandon> Tonio_, we can split out the backend and front end packages like suse does , use beagle-backend + mono and kerry/qt for the front easy
<Riddell> Tonio_: limited in which way?
<Tonio_> Riddell: UI is limited to me, compared to kerry
<Riddell> Tonio_: yes it is, I think that's being worked on
<fabo> strigi next release comes next week, and is much more reliable
<imbrandon> dosent beagle index a whole lot more things too ?
<Tonio_> Riddell: but I agree we should test this for edgy+1, since it is too late to test this now
<Riddell> but really a separate UI is never that useful, it needs integratoin with the desktop
<Riddell> fabo: cool, we'll look forward to that
<Tonio_> Riddell: I would love an ioslave hehe :)
<sladen> Riddell: the power button generates an ACPI event, handled by acpid, dispatched via a socket, and the filter in /etc/acpi/events/powerbtn to /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh
<imbrandon> Riddell, the kickoff ( among other new stuff ) is intergrating beage backend
<fabo> kbfx guys also integrate strigi now ;)
<sladen> Riddell: HAL also sends out an event:  acpi_PWRF condition ButtonPressed = power
<Tonio_> imbrandon: currently kickoff is a MESS
<fabo> imbrandon: they have introduced many more format since last release
<Tonio_> imbrandon: have you looked at it ? ;)
<imbrandon> Tonio_, yea i have it compiled here
<imbrandon> fabo, but thats unreleased code AND in universe
<imbrandon> kbfx hasent released that yet and wont for a while they have to many branches to work out before the edgy release
<fabo> imbrandon: will be released next week :) and we can ask main iclusion no ?
<fabo> sure, kbfx is another question ...
<imbrandon> fabo, we can yes but thats a big change, i've been working on kbfx for months, its no where near ready for main
<Riddell> fabo: I'd rather not have it in main for edgy, it's too new and untested
<fabo> imbrandon: i agree for kbfx
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<fabo> ok :)
<imbrandon> kbfx was my first kubuntu package and i still follow it very close trust me ;)
<fabo> imbrandon: me too ;)
<imbrandon> its not ready for the lime light
<allee> fabo: create updated pkgs announce the on #k-d for testing. If they enhanced _that_ much a main inclusion report is still possible
<fabo> allee: it must be showed at akademy
<Riddell> it will be yes
<Riddell> lets move on, it's edgy+1 material but we should definately keep an eye on it
<Riddell> abattoir_: here?
<Jucato> Hawkwind?
<Hawkwind> Riddell: He's having internet issues, badly
<Hawkwind> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuSupportTeam
<Hawkwind> I'd like for everyone to read that first and foremost as it tells what KST has in mind and planned for the future
<toma> nice addition for kubuntu
<Riddell> Hawkwind: who's involved in this?
<Hawkwind> Riddell: Currently.....myself, Jucato, abattoir_ and Hobbsee has given her approval
<imbrandon> i read it yeaterday, looks like a great idea, its just a matter of executing it
<Hobbsee> Riddell: Hawkwind Jucato abattoir_ 
<gnomefreak> Hawkwind: we can make #kubuntu only factoids
<Hobbsee> i thought i took more of the "how do you intend to make this happen?" 
<Hawkwind> Riddell: Over time of course we want more members as we see room for big improvements
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: As of a couple of days ago actually the three of us were given access to edit the bot, so that point has been covered
<gnomefreak> i know
<gnomefreak> i saw
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: My miswording really :)
<Jucato> it would also be a good way for non-coding users to be able to contribute in their own way, specially with documentation
* gnomefreak could have added you :)
<Riddell> Hawkwind: can the bot give #kubuntu specific answers?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: if you were there, yes :P
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yep
<Hawkwind> Riddell: Yes
<gnomefreak> Riddell: yes
<Riddell> that's handy
<imbrandon> Riddell, yes 
<Jucato> yes
<nixternal> wiki and documentation should probably be seperated..as there are already 'main' teams that take care of that, however you are more then welcome to contribute to both
<Tonio_> Jucato: non coding users can contribute activelly, I'm the evidence of this :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: [07:57]  <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: we can make #kubuntu only factoids
<Hobbsee> Riddell: we already do that with !ops
<gnomefreak> Riddell: !ops in #kubuntu is same as !ops
<Tonio_> Jucato: not only docs
<gnomefreak> iirc there are a few so far that i know of
<fabo> Tonio_: take a look at http://ubuntu-patches.sesse.net/ , it's interesting and there's space for improvements
<Tonio_> fabo: added to bookmarks
<Jucato> Tonio_: yes, but usually they're also looking for a sort of entry point.
<Hawkwind> Our goal is to work with the doc teams and others to help us grow and head in directions that maybe the doc team doesn't have time for on certain projects
<nixternal> Jucato: documentation is part of the Ubuntu Documentation Project, and it has always been open to contribute too. i do on a daily basis
<Tonio_> Jucato: yes, we need to find better ways to invite people contributing, since I can tell it is hard story when you start at zero point
<Hawkwind> nixternal: Our first goal is more centered around Kubuntu specific stuff.  Organizing the wiki so it's not so Ubuntu specific 
<nixternal> Hawkwind: myself, jjesse, trappist, and robotgeek are the main contributors to Kubuntu docs right now, however we could always use more help...i doubt you can get Kubuntu related docs to split from the main project
<Riddell> Hawkwind, Jucato: do you use kubuntuforums.net much?
* Hobbsee pokes her head in again.  -1 on the "power button brings up logout dialogue"
<Jucato> nixternal: yes, we're not actually trying to start from ground zero with regards to documentation. we will be coordinating with the docu teams for that
<Jucato> Riddell: yes, as much as I can
<claydoh> Thats an area I could help with, i think
<imbrandon> Hawkwind, yea but that can be done as part of the doc team if you become a member, i think the "zero point of entry" though needs to be worked on
<Hawkwind> Riddell: Yes.  Being new I don't have many posts, but they are rapidly growing as I am there several times per day
<Jucato> claydoh is a moderator of KFN
<Riddell> Jucato: are they are useful resource to people?
<nixternal> imbrandon: +1 on that zero point of entry
<Hobbsee> nixternal: hopefully not to split.  i keep discouraging them from doing that :P
<claydoh> not much moderating neede there yet :)
<nixternal> gotcha Hobbsee ;)
<Hawkwind> claydoh: We want to change that, in a good way :)
<claydoh> :)
<Jucato> Riddell: I could say they are. specially when it comes to Kubuntu-specific issues/problems
<Hawkwind> Yes, we do not want to take away from the Ubuntu forums/wiki at all.  We want to add to what we have for Kubuntu now as well as the Ubuntu stuff
<Riddell> that's good to hear
<Burgwork> Hawkwind, the doc team has been every dormant this release. We would love to have more people help us
<nixternal> wiki work could also be collaborated with the Ubuntu Wiki Documentation Team, which is part of the Ubuntu Documentation Project as well
<nixternal> but as it stands, i know help.ubuntu.com/community is trying to be fairly generic and DE dependent in the tutorials as well
<claydoh> how do we do this without some feeling there is duplication?
<Hawkwind> So then I guess the 3 of us would need to apply for the doc team or whatever we need to do to become a member of that
<Jucato> nixternal: that's another area we will try to work on. based on some posts in the forums, a lot of people aren't aware of what they can find in the wikis
<imbrandon> Hawkwind, i would say so
<Tonio_> I would suggest everyone that reads a bit of french to have a look at docs.ubuntu-fr.org since their base is to me the most well organised concerning ubuntu
<Tonio_> raphink: I'm sure you'll agree with this
<nixternal> Hawkwind: you don't need to apply or be a member..all you have to do is submit patches to the mailing list
<Hawkwind> What we really need is more Kubuntu specific stuff.  It seems so much is Ubuntu specific and that drives new users crazy when it doesn't work due to being Gnome apps the docs tell them to run
<nixternal> you can apply though if you would like..i kind of messed up that last sentence
<Tonio_> the problem is nobody took in charge of merging it with global ubuntu docs
<nixternal> Hawkwind: you have to watch out as well, as the whole "seperating" the DE stuff has been beatin' quite a bit as well... imbrandon will tell you how i was when i first came around, as well as Riddell...i was dude Kubuntu FTW, we don't need them ;)
<Jucato> heh
<imbrandon> Hawkwind, sure, i 100% agree BUT that can be done as part of the existing teams if people know where to look, that in lies the problem
<Hawkwind> nixternal: We do not want to 'seperate' at all though
<Tonio_> I must say ubuntu wiki is really messy/unstructured to me....
<claydoh> well it will happen no matter what imo
<allee> Ubuntu and kubuntu docs should normally be generated from the same document.  Does ubuntu doc team still not like this?
<gnomefreak> Hawkwind: are you speaking of official docs or wikis?
<Riddell> allee: they are, where it makes sense
<allee> good! ;)
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: More of a general basis.  Example...the facts in the bot point to Ubuntu specific stuff, we need to edit those pages to get them to be both, so that both Ubuntu/Kubuntu users can use them without failure
<allee> but when I follow this here there's much room for improvement
<Jucato> There are also some pages with Ubuntu-specific instructions only, like the Binary Driver Howto. 
<nixternal> Jucato: you are free to fix that you know ;)
<imbrandon> then fix it ;)
<nixternal> haha
<Jucato> yes :)
<gnomefreak> Hawkwind: make a list of some wikis you see that need it and feel free to email me the list 10 at a time or whatever adn ill fix them
<nixternal> at least i was nice about it
<Jucato> but that's probably just one :)
<h3sp4wn> Alot of the {k}ubuntu documentation I have read is incomplete (only do this no explanation of why)
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: I have no issues with fixing them myself
<Hobbsee> nixternal: we have that problem with the -motu people, too.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: it's not a good thing.
<allee> Is there a sort of Marker for kubuntu/ubuntu specific section?   So maybe wiki can later be enhanced to not display 'other DE' stuff
<nixternal> Jucato, Hawkwind > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiTeam    <- this is the current Wiki info right there, that is an open team if you needed to join, but you can also add stuff to those pages as well concerning splitting up some of the docs or adding to them for Kubuntu specifics
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, it /does/ hog the buildds... But I have no problems with it.
<gnomefreak> the commands are the same its when you get into the menus and stuff that change but most wikis are commands to run
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: er, what?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, are you talking about a MOTU dislike of KDE?
<nixternal> we all know that w.u.c is argh! and we can use a lot of help to make it better...that is why there was a split to pull main documentation from the wiki and add it to h.u.c/community
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Even a lot of the commands are different.  gksu gedit and kdesu kwrite
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, so does oo.o for that matter but thats not what were on atm
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-08
<Hawkwind> If the user doesn't have the Gnome stuff installed, he gets frustrated because the wiki is giving false info
<Fujitsu> OK, /me shuts up.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: effectively, and that the people in #kubuntu-devel only tend to do kde based packages, instead of any and all
<Hobbsee> sorry, still waking up here
<nixternal> hehe
<gnomefreak> Hawkwind: ive been seeing alot of wikis saying open your fav. text editor (i dont like it but thats what people have been doing)
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Even that we need to change IMO
<nixternal> gnomefreak: you have to look over the Doc style guide as well, since that is what they really wanted to style the wiki after as well
<Hawkwind> A lot of users have no idea what editor exists in Linux
<imbrandon> Hawkwind, ok i still dont see this as a problem as you come accross them fixem ? 
<nixternal> but i agree with you, the "favorite text editor" is annoying
<gnomefreak> agreed it would be nice for them to have the pastable command
<nixternal> because someone might not know about kate or kwrite, let alone nano, vi, vim and so forth
<Hawkwind> imbrandon: Yes.  abattoir had a lot more specific stuff to say...I wasn't really prepared to speak on this subject :)
<nixternal> ok...i think this has been beaten enough ;)
<toma> Hawkwind: a general replace gksu/kdesu does not seem very difficult for me as a bystander
<Riddell> KST dudes: is there anything you need from us?
<Jucato> imbrandon: fixing the docs/wikis is just one of the things we'd like to do. another is to coordinate this little bits and pieces of information and make sure that they blend together as a whole
<gnomefreak> toma: its not
<Hawkwind> Riddell: At the moment I can't think of anything.  I'll let abattoir speak to you or others about that when he's here next
<imbrandon> Jucato, sure and i said i 100% agree, go for it, i just urged you do it within the teams already established
<Tonio_> Jucato: that requires defining the bases of a support branch in the wiki, since it went to all directions till now
<nixternal> Hawkwind, Jucato, and abattoir, i would also recommend you talk to Burgwork / Burgundavia, or mdke when you get a chance as well concerning the wiki and documentation... #ubuntu-doc is their hangout
<Hawkwind> nixternal: Noted
<Jucato> added to auto-join :)
<allee> One wish: if browser-identification is 'konqueor'  css color should be blue! 
<nixternal> believe me when i say, you open up the can or worms on the wiki though in the channel, prepare to work for 11 days straight ;)
<Riddell> I'm very happy to see an inititive to ensure community support is as good for kubuntu as it is for ubuntu
<Tonio_> allee: hehe ;)
<nixternal> or even 40 days and 40 nights ;)
<Riddell> make sure you work with or within the existing teams and everyone will be happy
<nixternal> Riddell: +1
<Hobbsee> +1 Riddell 
<Tonio_> yes, I agree
* nixternal notes that i have been there done that, and stepped on some toes...just trying to make sure others don't step on them sore toes i already did ;)
<allee> +1 Riddell
<Riddell> and a paragraph for UWN would be cool too
<nixternal> Riddell: i lost that, my fault there ;(
<claydoh> +1 nixternal 
<toma> Hawkwind: going for ops?
<Hawkwind> toma: That is correct
<Jucato> :)
<Riddell> that's the next item
<Riddell> we don't really have a formal procedure for #kubuntu ops, I just do it if it seems sensible
<Riddell> Hawkwind: any reason you'd like to be an op?
<Riddell> and anyone have any objections?
<allee> Hawkwind, Jucato have fun, I really apprecaite any work in this direction!!
<Hawkwind> Riddell: Let me paste something I have pre-typed
<Hawkwind> I am here today for a couple of reasons.  One being the Kubuntu Support Team and the other is applying for the Kubuntu op team.  Why an op you ask ?  I feel I have many things I can bring to the channel and the community.  I have listed a few of those things on my wiki page.  The main reason I'm applying is because I am active on the channel 10+ hours a day, am very knowledgeable in both Linux and Kubuntu. I get along v
<Hawkwind> ery well with all users of the channel, including several of the other ops.  My op background consists of being an op for the #Mandrake/#Mandriva channel for 3 years, and the last 1 1/2 years of that was spent being the channels alternate contact.
<Hawkwind> allee: Thank you :)
<imbrandon> Riddell, Hawkwind, is arround alot and seems to have a level head in #kubuntu
<Hawkwind> BTW, here is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hawkwind  and LP page: https://launchpad.net/people/hawkwind
<gnomefreak> i like Hawkwind as an op as imbrandon points out he is around alot
<Riddell> I'm satisfied, I'll do that after the meeting
<Hobbsee> Riddell: I object!   :P  No, i think Hawkwind would make a good op.  we really dont have terribly many ops in #kubuntu and most that we do have arent watching anyway, only responding if !ops is called - i know that's all i tend to do, at least
<toma> 10h+ ?
<nixternal> WHAT!  a penguins head wearing a MICROSOFT colored bow tie =/
<Jucato> lol
<toma> amazing
<imbrandon> s/gnomefreak/kdefreak/g  THERE the first fix to the doc's
<claydoh> I vote for Hawkwind 
<toma> +1
<gnomefreak> lol
<Riddell> Tonio_: your item
<Tonio_> yes
<gnomefreak> i cant someone took it
<Hawkwind> Thank you to everyone for the kind words :)
<claydoh> #kubuntu would be easy compared to #mandriva
<Hobbsee> =1, as i cant find the plus button
<nixternal> haha
<Hobbsee> +ooh, there we go
<gnomefreak> +1
<Jucato> lol
<Tonio_> we have a few critical bugs that we need to focus on before release
<Hawkwind> claydoh: Hah, agreed
<Hobbsee> it's still dark in here, i cant see the keyboard!
<Tonio_> I think it would be nice to dedicate a wikipage to them
<imbrandon> Tonio_, agreed
* gnomefreak just fixed a bug in page nixternal gave us
<Riddell> bouncing k icon at startup
<Tonio_> here is an example of what I call critical : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/56377
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56377 in kdebase "klipper crashes on login " [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
<Riddell> yes, I do miss klipper
<toma> Tonio_: yes, i said it before, i love lists which i could do when i'm bored.
<Tonio_> that will touch any new profile and any new installation when edgy is out....
<Riddell> Tonio_: in theory we should be able to use launchpad to sort important bugs, but I agree a wiki page is probably easier
<Tonio_> and I'm pretty sure we can find a very consistent list of things like this one
<gnomefreak> i thought that was fixed removing ~/.klipperrc if it was changed from default as a workaround
<toma> (copy & paste does not work, with or without klipper)
<imbrandon> Tonio_ / Riddell and would give us a place to colab on pre-release/must fix bugs over the next weeks as we are a sparse team all in diffrent timezones ;)
<Tonio_> Riddell: yes launchpad is pretty nice during the dev cycle, but not very convenient to focus on the essential stuff just before the release
<toma> Tonio_: isn't there a priority field?
<Tonio_> the wikipage should link and invite to use launchpad, it should just be there to help defining the priorities
<Riddell> Tonio_: so please set up KubuntuEdgyCriticalBugs and we'll get cracking on them
<Tonio_> toma: yes there is, but what is important is not always critical
<toma> Tonio_: would be best to let launchpad generate the list
<Tonio_> that klipper issue is the perfect example
<Tonio_> it is not critical, since it doesn't break kubuntu, but we cannot think of releasing with this bug
<Tonio_> Riddell: will do with the help of Hobbsee, for her ug status knowledge :)
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: can I onsider your help to do that page tomorrow ?
<Riddell> ug status?
* Hobbsee gets off the phone with work again
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> say what?  :P
<Tonio_> Riddell: bug status
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, i have a very high ug status :P
* Hobbsee ugs Riddell 
<imbrandon> ;)
<Riddell> :)
<Riddell> right, universe freeze
<Tonio_> rah !! Hobbsee, I'm sure you understood, so that's fine to me :)
<imbrandon> 28th ?
<Riddell> only 2.5 weeks to go
<toma> hmm, anyone wants to do a second try at getting digikam(.*)-docs in?
* Hobbsee hugs Tonio_.  i did.
<Riddell> I can't think of any important packages that need to be got in, but a revu triage would be nice
<Riddell> toma: what happened with it?
<Hobbsee> toma: if the licence stuff is still wrong, you wont...
<imbrandon> we need to have some of use k guys ( and gals ) go though revu on revu day
<Riddell> oh, no FDL text
<Hobbsee> Riddell: that's what they plan to do today.  or this day a month ago, take your pick.  :P
<toma> allee: you released a new version, right?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: revu day today, check MOTU mailing list
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, its still the 7th for me ;)
<toma> afaik a sync with debian should solve it
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: add the wiki link to the topic too
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes, sure
<Riddell> toma: great, that sounds easy then
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: catch up with the times.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, -motu topic says the 8th
<imbrandon> so i guess we get 2 revu days
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: indeed.  in my timezone, it is the 8th
<Riddell> Hobbsee: your agenda item
<imbrandon> ahh
<Hobbsee> wha?
<Hobbsee> Universe freeze on the 26th or so. Make sure all updated versions are in by then. If they're not, then you'll need to file freeze exception requests, etc.
* allee tries to remember ...
<toma> apoligies excepted ;-)
<toma> accepted
<Hobbsee> as a FYI
<Riddell> Hobbsee: "Any other random agenda points from Hobbsee. "
<Hobbsee> while i have the floor
<Hobbsee> -1 on the power button calls the logout button, idea
<imbrandon> why ?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: why?
<Hobbsee> but we should make sure that kde gets saved - maybe call logout kde, then shut down?
<gnomefreak> kind of liked that idea
<allee> yes, FDL stuff is fixed upstream  -0.8.2-r1.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> what happens when you try to use the shutdown button to shut down the computer, ie when i'ts hardlocked?
<toma> allee: k
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you hold the button 4 seconds and the hardware takes care of it
<Riddell> Hobbsee: on most computers you hold it down for 5 seconds and it shuts down
<Hobbsee> Riddell: so that wouldnt change?
<imbrandon> yea its part of the ATX spec
<Hobbsee> oh right
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, no thats hardware 
<Riddell> Hobbsee: no
<Hobbsee> (how inconvenient is the power button to hit anyway?)
<Hobbsee> anyway, point.
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: ati standard
<allee> toma: and -r1 pkgs are in sid
<imbrandon> Tonio_, atx ;)
<toma> allee: are you going to try a new merge into edgy?
<Hobbsee> havent thought of any random agenda points yet, but for all the MOTU's, there's a REVU day on the 8th.  lets attack those packages, some of them have been there for ages.
<Tonio_> imbrandon: hu, OMG I said ati, sorry :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<Tonio_> imbrandon: should change my graphic card
<Riddell> I'll try and do some REVUing tomorrow
<Tonio_> so yes Hobbsee every computer that is less that 5 to 6 years handles this
* foo joins to eye Hawkwind 
<Hawkwind> I do have a suggestion to make once all the agenda points are covered that wasn't on the agenda
<Hobbsee> cool
<Tonio_> Riddell: ping me eventually, I can spend time on this too
<allee> toma: no.  I'm still covered with work to do any OSS stuff  (beside FAI for dapper, that I need for work right now ;)
<Hobbsee> nothing else, currently
<Riddell> "Translations are currently broken", not sure who's agenda item that is but it should go on Tonio_'s bugs page
* Hobbsee didnt have any great bursts of brilliance overnight
<Riddell> kde.pot isn't being handled right somewhere
<Tonio_> Riddell: that my item
<toma> Riddell: are there translations for kde 3.5.4 for dapper available?
<Riddell> toma: no
<Tonio_> Riddell: I already looked at that and that's not kubunt specific bug
<Riddell> toma: well, kde-i18n packages should be on kubuntu.org
<Tonio_> that exactly the same issue we had during the dapper dev cycle...
<Tonio_> only half of the translation appears
<Riddell> Tonio_: it's the stock strings from kde.pot that are the problem, I'll look into it
<Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't we ping pitty instead ?
<Tonio_> Riddell: okay
<Riddell> Tonio_: might be my fault, might be rosetta's fault or might be pitti's fault, I don't know yet
<Riddell> probably mine :)
* Tonio_ notes Riddell is a modest person :)
<Riddell> autoscroll in konqueror
<toma> Riddell: did you talk to rosetta people about the kde translators concerns?
<Riddell> toma: no, I need to do that too
<Tonio_> Riddell: yes that's another of my items
<toma> Riddell: ok, np
<Riddell> toma: I'll do that tomorrow
<toma> great
<Tonio_> toma and I have patched konqueror to have that function rocking as much as in firefox
<Tonio_> the patch in now in kdelibs, which is a good point
<Riddell> Tonio_: I'm not a fan of autoscroll mostly because I like middle click to paste URL
<Tonio_> firefox provides this function by default
<Hobbsee> Riddell: Jucato: has an agenda item, too
<Riddell> and the konqueror implementation has bugs like pasting into textareas doesn'twork
<Tonio_> Riddell: middle click to paste still works if you middle click on the tab bar
<toma> yes, that is my problem with it as well
<Tonio_> sounds like a good compromise to me
<toma> not for the textarea's
<toma> ah, compromise
<seaLne> thats much harder and requires moving mouse
<Tonio_> the point is that a very few kubuntu users are using konqueror in the first place because they prefer the features of firefox
<Hobbsee> sorry, what cna you still paste with this scenerio?
<Tonio_> we should focus on making konqueror working the way Joe prefers
<Tonio_> ;)
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: or just add/replace it with firefox.  *ducks*
* Jucato wonders about middle-clicking on tabs to close
<Tonio_> Riddell: there is no pb in pasting urls if you middle click on the tab bar, which sounds logic and makes sense to me
<allee> Tonio_: noone here misses it (but we all have scroll wheels)
<Riddell> Tonio_: it's still broken with pasteing in textareas, which is a killer for me
<imbrandon> middle clicking the tab bar in ff closes the tab
<Tonio_> Riddell: hum...... let me test
<Riddell> middle click to close sounds evil
<toma> Tonio_: that is the reason i turned it off too
<Jucato> heh
<Riddell> especially if you're used to pasting URLs
<imbrandon> Riddell, it is, very evil
<Tonio_> Riddell: pasting in textareas works here
<Tonio_> middle click pastes correctly
<toma> Tonio_: not with middle mouse button, from the konsole or example
<Tonio_> toma: just done it and it is okay
* Jucato notes that it works here too
<toma> hmff
<Riddell> how do I turn on scroll agian?
* Hobbsee hugs middle-click-to-close in firefox
<Hobbsee> Riddell: middle click?
<toma> if that works, i dont have a problem with it
<pitti> hi
<imbrandon> lo pitti
<Tonio_> Riddell: konq settings, web management blabla and uncheck "use middle click to........"
<cbx33> pitti, hi
<Tonio_> not sure of the english but it's like that
<Jucato> in Web Behaviour, uncheck "Middle click opens URL in selection"
<Riddell> nope, definately still broken for textareas for me
* Hobbsee adds to the mental agenda in her head.  i have a question for imbrandon.
<Riddell> it does paste, but it also scrolls too
<Tonio_> Riddell: humf...
<Tonio_> Riddell: ah yes I can see this too
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, PM me or i'll forget
<Riddell> Tonio_: so fix this and I'll consider it :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: hehe
<toma> Riddell: tsss
<fabo> :)
<Riddell> ok, any other items
<Tonio_> toma: ready to help again on that point ?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: that means it's hard to paste when the page is scrolling randomly?  :P
* toma ducks
<Hobbsee> Riddell: sure, a status update on imbrandon's plans for an integrated firefox
<Tonio_> toma: I don't feel capable to do this on my own :)
<toma> Tonio_: same here ;-)
<toma> Tonio_: but we can have a look, but not very soon ;-(
<Tonio_> Riddell: ready to help ? :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i havent touched it yet, i was / am waiting on iwj to "finish"
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah okay
* Hobbsee points at Hawkwind 
<Riddell> yes, Hawkwind had an item
<Jucato> Hawkwind?
<Riddell> guess he fell asleep
<Riddell> any other items?
<Jucato> :)
<imbrandon> Riddell, whats for breakfast ? j/k
<Hawkwind> I'm here now
<Jucato> it was about the 10th anniversary of KDE
<Hobbsee> Riddell: if not, Jucato can step in and do it
<Hobbsee> mmm...breakfast
<Jucato> oh there he is
<Hawkwind> Since this year is the 10th anniversary of KDE....can we do something special within Edgy to commemorate it ?
<toma> good idea
<Riddell> KDE 4 packages aren't special enough?
<Hawkwind> Could be something graphical or most anything.  Just think it would be a neat idea to let it be known to the user how long it's been around
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> Riddell: well....
<Riddell> Hawkwind: more concrete ideas would be useful
<ttread> one of the example docs - or a little movie...
<Riddell> I agree something would be cool, but I don't know what
<toma> can we add a special desktop for that day
<Riddell> toma: nice
<Hobbsee> how close are we for cd space, by the way?  on a related note?
<Riddell> ttread: nice but example-docs already takes up too much space
<Hawkwind> Riddell: I was thinking of some kind of graphic during start up or something.  Or maybe a 10th anniversary screen when konqueror starts
<kwwii> ping kwwii to ask about the graphics
<Riddell> Hobbsee: too close
<Tonio_> Riddell: hum, hard to do for people using their own wallpaper :)
<ttread> ok
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, last i checked without removing anything we had about 38mb free
<Hobbsee> Riddell: well, yeah, but how much do we have?
<Hobbsee> that will cut out most videos
<Hobbsee> right
<sfllaw> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council
<Riddell> imbrandon: less on other arches
<sfllaw> @schedule America/Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 08:00: Community Council
<Riddell> hi sfllaw, welcome to the kubuntu meeting
<imbrandon> Riddell, true i only checked i386
<Jucato> I guess graphics would be our only option then?
<Hawkwind> Hah
<Hobbsee> sfllaw: we're in a meeting :P
<Riddell> kwwii: do you know if there's any plans for 10th anniversary graphics?
<toma> Hobbsee: well if you have video's, we can add a main menu item on all apps to point to that on that day
<imbrandon> i think a nice graphic in the "about" box in the edgy release would be simple and small and still seen
<sfllaw> Sorry.
<imbrandon> Riddell, ^
<kwwii> Riddell: nope, until now, there is none
<mdz> Riddell: please wrap up within the next 10m so we can get started with the dev meeting
<Riddell> mdz: we're about there
<Hawkwind> imbrandon: +1 on that idea.  It doesn't have to be big at all
<Hobbsee> mdz: we're taking over your dev meeting, didnt you know?  :P
<Hobbsee> toma: right, yeah.  i dont
<Riddell> someone could contact basse for a konqi graphic/video
<sivang> topic
<kwwii> Riddell: that is a very good idea
<kwwii> in fact, I think that someone has already done that
<kwwii> torsten
<Riddell> clever tackat
<kwwii> now that you mention it :-)
<Jucato> one of the older Konqi videos?
<kwwii> no, to make a new one
<Jucato> ah
<Riddell> I'll talk to tackat and see where that is
<imbrandon> ok ....... moving on ? ( sorry i'm hungery for food )
<Riddell> imbrandon: I'm done
<imbrandon> hehe
<Riddell> any other business?
* toma too
* Jucato needs sleep...
<Riddell> thanks for coming all
<Hobbsee> Jucato: heh, i'll bet
<toma> next meeting?
<Hobbsee> next meeting time?
<Hobbsee> it's not really fair on Jucato having a 5am meeting.
<Hobbsee> and i'm pretty useless, even at 7am
<Jucato> heh it's ok. I'll get used to it :)
<claydoh> heck Im useless and its 7 PM :)
<Jucato> heh
<toma> i'm fine on friday at 11pm ;-)
<kwwii> see most of you later...see those in the developer meeting in a few minutes
* Hobbsee pokes Riddell to see if he saw the last bit
<Riddell> yep, suggestions of meeting times welcome
<toma> nite all
<Tonio_> toma: nite ;)
<seaLne> what about a early morning GMT meeting?
<Tonio_> toma: just a second plz :)
<Tonio_> argh
<imbrandon> early gmt time is fine by me, we wont get everyone every meeting ;)
<imbrandon> we should rotate
<Hobbsee> lets discuss it in #kubuntu-devel but perhaps it's more of an issue nwo than it was
<imbrandon> sweet , carry any spillover to #kubuntu-devel /me is afk to get some food 
<Hobbsee> we need to make sure we have quroum, at least
* Hobbsee wonders when the KCC renewal comes up.
* claydoh leaves to start cooking late dinner...
<kwwii> hehe, at least I am early for the next meeting :-)
<kwwii> hi fschoep
<dholbach> hi seb128, hi fschoep
<fschoep> Hi kwwii, everyone
<seb128> hey dholbach
<fschoep> Hi dholbach
<jono> howdy doody
<mdz> jono: evening
<Hobbsee> hey all
<jono> hey mdz :)
<jono> hey Hobbsee 
<Fujitsu> Morning, jono.
<Hobbsee> hi jono.  you didnt make it to kubuntu meeting?
* Hobbsee merges wireshark in the background
<jono> hey Fujitsu 
<jono> Hobbsee, yeah I was out tonight
<Hobbsee> jono: ah okay.  shame.  you could do what i did - come in over half way thru or something :P
<jono> Hobbsee, I only just got in :)
<jono> Hobbsee, good meeting ?
* pitti waves to mdz
<Hobbsee> jono: didnt make most of it, and the part i was there for i wasnt terribly awake :P
<jono> hehe
* Hobbsee waves to pitti 
<mdz> missing infinity, iwj and BenC
<mvo> hello
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<mdz> good evening, folks
<sfllaw> Evening.
<sfllaw> How was Black Rock?
<pitti> good evening everyone
<mdz> my holidays were excellent, but I'm back in full-on work mode now
<mdz> we have a lot of ground to cover, with feature freeze upon us
<mdz> so we'll dive right in
<mdz> infinity: welcome
<mdz> pitti: would you start us off?
<iwj> Hi.  Sorry I'm a bit late ...
<pitti> sure
<mdz> iwj: we're just getting started
<pitti> Done:
<pitti>  * started to catch up with security updates after the two weeks break: PHP, bind, kernel (just coordination), mailman, libxfont/X.org, imagemagick, openssl, MySQL 
<pitti>  * apport: implemented bug pattern matching backend and GUI (so that apport-gtk directs you to an already existing bug rather than asking you to file a new one)
<pitti>  * SoC reviews and reports
<pitti>  * merged cupsys and updated to 1.2.3; not yet uploaded since I have to fix a regression
<pitti> Todo:
<pitti>  * more security updates (arrgh)
<pitti>  * catch up on my overflowing bugs inbox
<pitti>  * finish cups 1.2.3 and upload
<pitti>  * fix high-profile langpack-o-matic bug and prepare new packages (BLOCKED: *-updates embargo; mdz?)
<pitti>  * ensure that php and mysql get new upstream versions (infinity or I)
<pitti>  * finish gnutls12->13 transition
<pitti>  * start bug fixing
<pitti> spec status:
<pitti>  * apt-get-debug-symbols (Deployment): distro side is ready, needs buildd infrastructure work to get .ddebs to people.u.c (to be implemented next week with infinity)
<mdz> pitti: how much remains in the queue for security?
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports (Implemented): does not yet catch all corner cases, this requires an updated kernel implementation which will (most likely) be deferred to Edgy+1; but basic functionality is working apart from some bugs
<pitti>  * gcc-ssp (Implemented): Distro side changes are implemented for a long time; still need to check current build coverage, and perhaps do no-change uploads to important packages
<pitti>  * auto-unmount-notifications (Implemented): works a bit too good (also for readonly devices), but I consider that a bug
* pitti is happy to be the first one the first time
<pitti> mdz: the kernel still needs to be pushed out, some embargoed stuff that is lifted next week, and about 5 public issues
<pitti> mdz: (I don't have the exact number in my head, I just work through them case by case)
<mdz> pitti: looks like you are in good shape for feature freeze, congrats
<pitti> mdz: will you say some words about the *-update embargo?
<pitti> mdz: thanks :)
<mdz> we're in the process of revising and formalizing the process for updates to stable releases
<pitti> mdz: do infinity and I have your blessing to implement the .ddeb retrieval later?
<mdz> until that work is finished, only security fixes are permitted
<pitti> mdz: I hope it won't be too heavy for langpack updates ;)
<mdz> queue any -updates uploads locally until then
<pitti> but I totally agree that we should revise the policy
<pitti> we should also do a dry run of that proposed 'block bad versions with a fake version on security.u.c' approach
<mdz> I'm going to focus on prevention, though we'll think through some contingency plans
<mdz> KISS will apply though
<mdz> pitti: thank you
<mdz> Mithrandir: next?
<Mithrandir> live-cd-write-as-you-go: Needs a fair bit of infrastructure before it can happen, namely an udflinux similar to isolinux.
<Mithrandir> misc: X bugfixes.  Rodarvus and I seem to have divided the workload so he gets the server and drivers, I get the apps and libs.  Also played a fair bit with Xen.  Casper bugfixes.  Helped Colin a bit with sane-installer-keyboard (but he's done most of the implementation, by far)
<Mithrandir> next week: bug triage, Knot 3 release in a week.
<Mithrandir> l-c-w-a-y-g is therefore deferred
<mdz> Mithrandir: how did knot 2 go?
<Mithrandir> decent; some last-minute changes which I in retrospect wish I'd asked to postpone, but it wasn't too painful.
<mdz> Mithrandir: how about the testing in the certification lab?
<mdz> is that working out?
<Mithrandir> yeah, slowly.
<mdz> how are they reporting their results?
<Mithrandir> as in, getting there.
<Mithrandir> the wiki, as usual.
<Mithrandir> at least, that's been the goal.  I need to be better at cleaning the grid when we build a new iso
<mdz> add it to the checklist
<Mithrandir> also, we uncovered some brokenness in Launchpad, but I think that's fixed now
<Mithrandir> infinity: ^^?
<infinity> Mithrandir: The frozen breakage?  Not sure if those fixes have been rolled out, I'll chase that up before we try to freeze again.
<mdz> please subscribe me to the relevant bugs if they're causing release blockage
<Mithrandir> infinity: yeah, that's what I was thinking about.  Basically, FROZEN doesn't work.  And I can't freeze the distro.
<Mithrandir> both being kinda problematic if I'm going to drive the release.
<mdz> Mithrandir: did you have that UI review with mpt regarding live-cd-sessions?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I thought I sent that mail, but I never chased it up, so either he never got it or forgot.  I'll do that even though we're post-FF.
<mdz> give him some time to think on it, it'll be good to have on hand when we resume that
<mdz> thanks Mithrandir
<mdz> infinity: next
<infinity> Done:
<infinity>  * debian-maintainer-field: Maintainer field mangling is in the archive and active on the buildds, and working as advertised.
<infinity>  * live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Just recieved word that elmo has given me the kernel support I need on the buildds, so will roll this out in production after I've slept today.
<infinity>  * larger-livefs: Still needs creation of a seed for live-dvd, but when live-cd-stacked-filesystems is rolled out, this one basically takes care of itself.
<infinity>  * A fair amount of buildd wrangling this week, unsnaring the usual "new GNOME breakage", dealing with chroots not updating properly, etc.
<infinity>  * General weekly tasks (archive maintenance, tracking soyuz bugs and misfeatures, etc)
<infinity> Todo:
<infinity>  * New upstream releases of PHP, MySQL, and Samba, all done in Debian, just need to get UVFs and quickly merge/sync them.
<infinity>  * Make sure live-cd-stacked-filesystems/larger-livefs actually work in production.
<infinity>  * Attack bug lists and FTBFS lists.
* infinity subscribed mdz to the FROZEN bug.
<mdz> (thanks)
<mdz> Mithrandir: have you been able to test your portion of live-cd-stacked-filesystems at all, or is that blocked on having them built on the buildds?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I have tested it with locally built images.
<pitti> infinity: (for the record, we do have the php UVF ER)
<pitti> infinity: ... approval)
<mdz> infinity: go ahead and create the dvd seed; it should have all language-{support,pack} for all languages
<infinity> pitti: Yeah, I know, but we don't for the other two, and I'm a lazy typist. :)
<Mithrandir> mdz: I haven't tested it with official images, naturally, since we don't have them yet.
<mdz> Mithrandir: right, thanks
<seb128> infinity: what causes the "new GNOME breakage"? The stricts Depends between arch all and any packages?
<mdz> infinity: check with Kamion if you're in doubt about the germination
<pitti> infinity: will the dvd seed be a superset of the CD seed, or an independent copy?
<infinity> seb128: Yeah, when arches get a bit out of sync, the world explodes and I get to unsnag it all by hand.  It's something I'm generally used to.  When new GNOME hits, I tend to get to dedicate a couple of days to making it happy everywhere.
<Kamion> the appropriate runes are in the supported seed
<Kamion> pitti: live-dvd would inherit from live, technically
<mdz> pitti: it will be an independent seed, but stacked on top of the existing live image
<pitti> Kamion: that's good
<pitti> so no duplication AFAIUI
<mdz> right
<seb128> infinity: would delay upload between libs and app make the job easier for you?
<infinity> seb128: It could help a bit, but unless you want to stagger your uploads by days, something will always break.  *shrug*
<seb128> k
<seb128> so not a lot we can do for you :/
<infinity> seb128: To be honest, I prefer to see you and Daniel just upload as much as you can and get back to bugfixing while I do my job.
<mdz> infinity: ok, thanks
* dholbach hugs infinity
<mdz> dholbach: next
<seb128> ok, fine with me
<infinity> seb128: Each to their strengths. :)
<dholbach> Done:
<dholbach>     * GNOME 2.16
<dholbach>     * Bugs
<dholbach>     * Artwork uploads and work on Art-Builder
<dholbach> Todo:
<dholbach>     * more Bug Triage
* seb128 hugs infinity too
<dholbach>     * more Art-Builder
<dholbach>     * REVU DAY tomorrow!
<dholbach>     * get new gnome-pilot in, get missing telepathy packages in before UniverseFreeze
<dholbach>     * start on apt-get.org import
<dholbach> 
<mdz> GNOME 2.16.0 is complete?
<sfllaw> Yay!
* mvo hugs dholbach
<dholbach> yes
<seb128> mdz: yep
* mvo hugs seb128
* seb128 is going to blog about that ;)
* seb128 hugs mvo back
<mdz> excellent, seb128/dholbach
<dholbach> gracias :-)
<seb128> :
<seb128> :)
<mdz> dholbach: how is art-builder going?  that's the arrangement we discussed in wiesbaden?
* pitti hugs the fabulous desktop team
<dholbach> mdz: exactly - it's checking out and building already, but not very clever yet (it doesn't do changes to buildsystems, etc)
<pitti> Seb'128 packages a day'astien
<dholbach> mdz: i didn't put too much time in it yet
<dholbach> pitti: ah ah :-P
<mdz> dholbach: ok, send me an email when there's something to see; I'd like to look at it
<dholbach> mdz: sure
<mdz> thanks dholbach
<mdz> kwwii: next
<seb128> pitti: :)
<kwwii> Did the Hardware Database interface pics, selected icons, edited a few and made a couple of new ones.
<kwwii> Finished almost all (all currently used as far as I can tell) of the power manager icons (one or two still need to be done)
<kwwii> Played with a two ideas for both versions of the usplash
<kwwii> Worked on evolving the theme to the blue-purple variant
<kwwii> Tweaking KDM and Ksplash theme
<kwwii> TODO:
<kwwii> USPLASH - top of the list...following questions; which version will be used? When will testing be done? (how in the hell do I get it to work on my eMac?) :-)
<kwwii> Got Amarok running again on my machine, finishing up the work on the amarok theme
<kwwii> Release announcement pic
<kwwii> pics for wiki.kubuntu.org header
<kwwii> Finish the tweaking of the "about" pages, make that match with the metabar pics
<kwwii> Change all pics and color schemes to the blue-purple theme by knot3
<kwwii> the usplash is the biggest issue for me
<fschoep> +1
<kwwii> fschoep: ;-)
* pitti really hopes that usplash will work on amd64 soon
<fschoep> But at least there's something happening on the art ML now
<mdz> kwwii: of the 7 components we discussed (usplash, wallpaper, window decorations, kdm login, ksplash, app start pages, icons), how much of that has landed in edgy for feature freeze?
<fschoep> Seveas is doing some work there
<Seveas> My work on usplash is done
<Seveas> mjg59 is doing the hard work
<kwwii> mdz: all of it
<Riddell> except usplash
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, good to hear - glad you made it
<kwwii> mdz: it is all tweaking and bug fixing from here on out
<kwwii> and the usplash
<kwwii> thanks Riddell
<kwwii> that is why the usplash is on top of the lsit
<kwwii> list
<kwwii> the new usplash stuff came out last night...the big question is will that version be used?
<mdz> kwwii: what's blocking it?  testing on your machine?
<kwwii> ie...how much time should be put into making the new version
<mdz> my two issues with it were the virtual console corruption and hibernation breakage.
<Kamion> kwwii: it'll be used, unless it turns out to be so buggy it's easier to revert than fix
<kwwii> mdz: although I cannot test it on my machine, I have some basic stuff done already
<mdz> the latter was apparently a kernel bug, and mjg59 believes the former fixed
<kwwii> I cannot get it to run on either of my ppc machines
<mdz> mjg59: how confident are you about it today?
<mjg59> Mm?
<Kamion> I was thinking of poking at it on powerpc tomorrow
<mjg59> Oh, the console corruption?
<mjg59> That's sorted
<mdz> mjg59: shiny usplash
<mdz> in general
<mjg59> Yeah
<mdz> for edgy feature freeze
<Kamion> I just haven't had time before FF
<mjg59> Works now
<mdz> are you aware of the amd64 issue pitti mentioned?
<mjg59> The PPC stuff is buggy but easily fixed
<pitti> are we definitively committed to using the hi-res usplash for edgy?
<mdz> pitti: that's what we're trying to determine
<mjg59> I'm running it on amd64 right this second
<kwwii> I made a usplash for the old version too, to if we have to revert, I am ready
<pitti> ATM it works neither on my powerpc nor on my amd64
<mdz> this is decision time
<kwwii> but still, everything else is done to some extent, the usplash is still the test theme
<Kamion> I don't expect getting it to work on powerpc would take much effort
<pitti> mjg59: oh, right, it was nvidia specific, right?
<mdz> kwwii: ok, no need to wait then; land the high-res stuff
<mjg59> There may be issues on specific hardware, but in general it's fine
<Kamion> I made it work on powerpc initially way back when, and it was only a few hours' work
<seb128> my desktop doesn't boot with the new usplash
<mdz> seb128: filed a bug?
<kwwii> mdz: cool, will do 
<mjg59> seb128: Is that new as in generally, or new as in since this morning?
<seb128> mdz: not yet 
<Seveas> seb128, 'new usplash' is rather undescriptive, 4 versions landed in the past 2 days, each fixing several bugs
<Kamion> Seveas: 5 :)
<Seveas> heh
<sivang> hi all
<kwwii> it would be really cool to get it working on ppc well so that I can test what I am making
<sivang> sorry for being late.
<mjg59> seb128: I believe those too be fixed
<seb128> mjg59: new from this week, but services-admin basically emptied my /etc/rc[0-6] .d and I only restored a part of it so I want to reinstall before opening a bug
<mdz> seb128: ok, please confirm this week (with a live CD if that's easiest)
<mjg59> At the moment I'm trying to work out why a piece of previously working hardware is now failing to (as far as I can tell) even execute the Linux wakeup code
<seb128> I get the splash followed by a black screen instead of gdm
<mjg59> seb128: Yes, that should be fixed
<seb128> mdz: yeah, will do tomorrow
<mdz> kwwii: Kamion will have a try at it when he gets a chance
<seb128> mjg59: will try after meeting with the current version to make sure
<mdz> kwwii: if possible try on another machine
<seb128> I might not have rebooted since the update
<mdz> kwwii: or have Riddell email you photos :-)
<kwwii> :-)
<mdz> kwwii: thanks
<mdz> fschoep: next
<fschoep> Done:
<fschoep>  * theme-teams: collect final versions of artwork
<fschoep>  * community artwork: package best available artwork, mad props to Daniel Holbach on this one as well
<fschoep>  * community artwork: contact sabdfl on progress and direction
<fschoep>  * sound-themes: package best available sounds
<fschoep>  * gtk-theme: minor tweaks
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: finalized iconprio stuff, props to Daniel again for updating the website, contacted sabdfl along the  way
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-complete-highcon-icons: introduced Henrik to tienne Bersace, looks like this is going to go well
<fschoep> Ongoing:
<fschoep>  * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: decide on color tweaks based on artwork direction
<fschoep>  * community-artwork: polish and rework parts to sabdfl's liking, fix outstanding bugs
<fschoep>  * sound-themes: tweaking and polishing of sounds
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: contact Dave to start work after sabdfl approves the scheduled list of work
<fschoep> Blocked:
<fschoep>  * theme-teams: there seems to be no Art Council in place, who will approve theme team work for inclusion?
<fschoep>  * usplash-artwork: running to stand still - has the target stopped moving yet?
<iwj> fschoep: I saw some mails or questions from my week off about the firefox human theme; did you get the help you needed ?
<mdz> fschoep: which components have landed in edgy today?
<mdz> iwj: my firefox looks humanish
<iwj> mdz: Mine too :-).
<fschoep> iwj: Not sure what you mean?
<dholbach> mdz: gdm, sounds, session, wallpapers, gtk theme
<fschoep> darn
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<fschoep> thank dholbach 
<iwj> fschoep: Well, if you don't have anything outstanding then that's fine by me :-4~).
<kwwii> good to hear that fschoep and myself are both loosing sleep over the usplash :-)
<iwj> Oops, my mouth exploded.
<fschoep> iwj: I wondered though
<mdz> dholbach: and what remains to be done?
<fschoep> iwj: Is the Human theme now default for Edgy?
<fschoep> mdz: usplash
<fschoep> mdz: human icons, GTK color tweaks
<mdz> fschoep: are there candidates for usplash?
<fschoep> mdz: some bland and ugly ones
<fschoep> based on 16 color 640x400 restrictions
<mdz> nothing we can roll out?
<iwj> fschoep: Yes; I put that change into the main bzr so you'll have picked it up and as mdz says default setups get it now.
<fschoep> mdz: we can roll something out, sure but it will hardly be better and less colorful than the test card
<mdz> fschoep: please get a high-res one together; if nothing else we can use the standard logo and it will look better than what we have
<Seveas> (there is a test 1024x768 + 800x600 theme in the usplash source using many of the new shiny features)
<fschoep> mdz: sabdfl kind of disgrees there
<mdz> fschoep: today is the deadline
<fschoep> mdz: I think -
<fschoep> mdz: well
<Keybuk> remember that the usplash artwork should go in the themes packages
<Keybuk> not in the usplash package
<fschoep> mdz: I need some input on Mark first
<mdz> fschoep: he's travelling and we cannot block on him
<Seveas> Keybuk, i know -- the theme won't even build in-tree
<Seveas> That's the reason I split off usplash-dev
<kwwii> fschoep: I should discuss the usplash with you...from the wishes for the dapper cycle and the new 256 color, I get we could do something nice
<kwwii> s/get/bet
<mdz> fschoep: it's important to get this in; we can still iterate on it but need a starting point now
<fschoep> mdz: sure, I think
<fschoep> mdz: like, now?
<mdz> fschoep: tomorrow
<fschoep> mdz: OK, I'll get something in
<mdz> fschoep: thanks; let me know if you run into trouble
<fschoep> mdz: OK
<mdz> Kamion: next
<fschoep> uh
<fschoep> Can I please get some input on the Art Council question?
<Kamion> (waiting)
<fschoep> Is there going to be one soon?
<fschoep> Does anyone remotely know what the AC is going to be?
<mdz> fschoep: you make the call on the themes to include
<fschoep> mdz: OK
<mdz> the release can't block on organizing a new team
<mdz> Kamion: go ahead
<Kamion> Done:
<Kamion>   cdrom-based-dist-upgrades: Added upgrader to CD images, thanks to a patch from mvo.
<Kamion>   no-more-devfs: Done.
<Kamion>   livefs-access: Sound support theoretically in, but it appears to produce just beeps at best and it's hideous assembly code that I don't understand, so I've disabled this. However, we did manage to improve keyboard navigation on the accessibility menu and clean up some of the access options.
<Kamion>   sane-installer-keyboard: Mostly done, apart from translations of layout and variant names, which will probably take a while to organise. We can test all the rest of it without that though. I'll push console-s
<mdz> mvo: is c-b-d-u testable?
<Kamion> etup up to minimal tomorrow morning once my upgrade path changes have built.
<Kamion>   live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Wrote the ubiquity side of this, which will be needed once the filesystems appear in corruption.
<mvo> mdz: yes
<Kamion>   misc: Reviewed and merged oem-config KDE patch from abattoir. Haven't tested it yet.
<Kamion> Deferred:
<Kamion>   ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: I decided I wasn't going to get far enough with this before FF to be worth the time right now, so I've deferred it. Oh well.
<Kamion> To do:
<Kamion>   sane-installer-keyboard: I expect to spend much of next week sorting out loose ends here (with Tollef, if he's available).
<mdz> mvo: does it require a dapper backport?
<Kamion>   misc: Google Summer of Code final reports, and whatever else comes up. usplash powerpc debugging, as discussed.
<mdz> I think I mailed about this, but don't remember your reply
<mvo> mdz: full support yes, if we are happy with documenting to run "sh /cdrom/cdromdistupgrade", then not
<mdz> mvo: we'll want full support certainly
<mvo> full support == hal based cd detection
<mdz> mvo: I assume it's trivial reuse of the code we already had
<mvo> yes
<mvo> the patch should be easy (and the feature was done in a seperate bzr branch to make the backporting easy)
<mdz> Kamion: are you confident about sane-installer-keyboard?
<Kamion> mdz: yes, reasonably. Upstream says it still has trouble with non-PC-like keymaps but that's at worst confined to powerpc.
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm happy to help out with s-i-k next week, yes.
<mdz> ogra_: landing enormous merges during the feature freeze meeting -> grr
<Kamion> And it's *so* much easier to hack than the old console framework.
<ogra_> mdz, sorry 
<mdz> Kamion: ok, thanks
<mdz> ogra_: next
<ogra_> * this-week:
<ogra_>  - student-control-panel-completion - implemented by pete savage, waits for MIR review, spec still waiting for approval
<ogra_>  - ltsp-login-and-session-handling - implemented, some cosmetic polish remains
<ogra_>  - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration - implemented, ready for knot 3
<ogra_>  - fully-automatic-swap-server (no info, deferred i guess :/ )
<ogra_>  - plenty of small patches (g-p-m, gnome-session etc)
<ogra_> * next-week:
<ogra_>  - clean up ltsp after the merges, hunt the last bugs
<ogra_>  - go through gnome-screensaver/gnome-power-manager buglist
<ogra_>  - knot 3
<ogra_>  - flight to detroit ltsp meeting
<ogra_> * other specs: 
<ogra_>  - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs - talked to infinity, we want to meet after FF
<ogra_>  - ltsp-convergence: (no progress, multi distro meeting sept. 14th-19th) according to sbalneav only 
<ogra_>    two features (rdesktop and lp_server integration (the latter is on the buglist for edgy, needs some lines in 
<Kamion> I expect the installer may glitch a bit tomorrow, but it shouldn't be hard to fix; I've run complete installs with console-setup in hacked-up environments.
<ogra_>    the initscript and testing)) and optional xdmcp support missing
<ogra_>  - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: code merged from debian (untested yet)
<ogra_> Kamion, fine with me ... 
<mdz> ogra_: rodarvus was working on f-a-s-s, no?  did he finish or pass on unfinished code?
<ogra_> mdz, he said he was nearly done since two weeks before wiesbaden, but didnt want to show me the code
<mdz> ogra_: please send an email asking for it and CC me
<ogra_> last edubuntu meeting (wed.) he said he'd start from scratch :/
<mdz> ogra_: your 3 edgy targets are all implemented, congrats
<pitti> ogra_: do you need any urgent MIRs?
<ogra_> mdz, ok, even though i have a workaround implemented that creates the swapfiles
<mdz> I don't think I'll make it to the ltsp meeting
<ogra_> so it *can* be defarred and get done rigght in edgy+1
<ogra_> sad :/
<mdz> ogra_: yes, I saw that and assumed it was fully-automatic-swap-server landing
<ogra_> roger waters will miss you :)
<mdz> tell roger hello
<ogra_> no its just a call through the ltspfs socket to create the swapfiles
<mdz> ogra_: you have booked your flight already, right?
<sivang> ogra_: going to see pink floyd ?? :-)
<ogra_> sivang, only roger :)
<fschoep> wish you were here
<ogra_> mdz, yup
<ogra_> all sorted
<mdz> ok, good
<Keybuk> sivang: and I thought they said they didn't need no education
<sivang> Keybuk: HAHA
<mdz> ogra_: thanks
<ogra_> i got a very nice mail from sbalneav today about the -convergence btw
<mdz> has anyone heard from BenC?  I sent an SMS
<ogra_> i'll forward it to you
<Keybuk> mdz: only earlier today
<sivang> ogra_: is he using edubuntu ?
<mdz> Riddell: next
<Riddell> done:
<Riddell>     specs all implemented, except adept ones which are deferred
<Riddell>     KDE oem-config testing, Colin has merged (thanks to abattoir)
<Riddell>     kubuntu-hwdb: fixes, usability improvements and adding kwwii's artwork
<Riddell>     langpacks-desktopfile-kde: working well, reuploaded everything to pick up .desktop file edits
<ogra_> sivang, yes, ltsp.org completely emerged to ubuntu/edubuntu everywhere now
<Riddell>     kubuntu-system-settings-usability: updated packages (thanks to sime for implementing), same for kubuntu-power-management (thanks to Lure and sebas for much work there)
<Riddell>     kubuntu-accessibility: required casper changes in
<Riddell>     KDE 4 pre-release packaged and in NEW
<Riddell> blocked: ruby on ppc
<Riddell> todo:
<Riddell>     REVU day
<Riddell>     koffice 1.6 beta
<Riddell>     merge KDE ubiquity with Colin's changes to GTK frontend
<Riddell>     look at moving ubuntu-docs from svn to bzr
<Riddell>     knot 3
<dholbach> Riddell: REVU DAY!
<mdz> Riddell: what's wrong with ruby?
* dholbach hugs Riddell
<Kamion> KDE 4 is targeted at universe, I assume?
<mdz> Kamion: yes
<Riddell> mdz: doesn't compile on powerpc
<Hobbsee> Riddell: the list of crucial "must fix" bugs for edgy, too
<ogra_> ugh, two KDE versions  ? 
<Riddell> Kamion: certainly
<Kamion> I'll look at it tomorrow, it's my archive day
<ogra_> that will cause confusion
<Hobbsee> ogra_: dapper effectively runs with 3.  *shrugs*
<Riddell> ogra_: they're clearly marked as being for developers only
<mdz> there are alternate versions of all sorts of things in universe ;-)
<mdz> Riddell: looking good, thanks
<mdz> seb128: next
<seb128> Done:
<seb128> - GNOME 2.16.0
<seb128> - bug triage
<seb128> - desktop bugs fixing
<seb128> - caught up with a part of my mails lag
<seb128> - SoC review
<seb128> - gnome-system-tools bounty discussions and patches review
<seb128> To Do:
<seb128> - bug triage, bug triage, bug triage
<seb128> - bugs fixing too
<mdz> is SoC all wrapped up now?
<Kamion> the final reports are due tomorrow
* mvo needs to finish his review for soc
<Kamion> so yes
<mdz> and after that we'll have met our obligations and have nothing more to do, right?
<ogra_> my student cheated me and told me its wednesday :)
<Kamion> right
* pitti just sent the final SoC report
* seb128 too
<doko> mdz: still have to cash in the money ...
<seb128> just before the meeting
<mdz> seb128: the g-s-t stuff is progressing, right?  not blocked on me anymore
<seb128> mdz: yeah, a package with most of the patches has been uploaded yesterday
<mdz> oh good. I'm a bit behind on -changes
<ogra_> is it upstart friendly now ? 
<seb128> ogra_: upstart makes no difference, does it?
<mdz> seb128: how is the bug list?
<seb128> ogra_: you still use update-rc.d no? 
<doko> seb128: are you aware of the gnomeVFS ABI changes?
<Keybuk> "friendly" ?
<ogra_> seb128, i thought it broke your upstart
<seb128> mdz: we still have difficulties to keep it at a correct level
<mdz> it shouldn't need any changes for this phase of upstart deployment, as i understand it
<pitti> doko: tell us you're joking?
<seb128> mdz: my bug mails lag was ~270 on friday
<seb128> it's ~370 now
<Keybuk> ogra_: it wiped his /etc/rc?.d (except for the READMEs) -- nothing to do with upstart
<mdz> seb128: who is working on desktop triage other than you and dholbach?
<doko> pitti: no, that's probably the reason why the OOo file selector doesn't work and OOo terminates
<seb128> mdz: some contributors
<ogra_> Keybuk, ah
<seb128> some of they triage a lot and do a good job
<seb128> ("Vassilis Pandis" by example)
<Fujitsu> doko, I noticed that yesterday :(
<seb128> but still, lot of bugs coming :/
<seb128> doko: the bonobo functions move?
<mdz> mostly upstream?
<seb128> mdz: yeah, we usually fix distro bugs fairly quickly (if they are an issue)
<seb128> 95% of the bugs is upstream material
<doko> seb128: yeah, maybe
<seb128> doko: it's a discutable "ABI change" then ;)
<mdz> seb128: are you and dholbach the only ones forwarding bugs upstream, or do others help as well?
<seb128> doko: they moved some function from gnome-vfs to libbonobo which the linux linker handle fine
<dholbach> mdz: some rare few are forwarded upstream by others
<seb128> mdz: 2-3 contributors help on that too, but they don't do a lot of forwarding
<doko> seb128: no, maybe the reason is dicutable, but not, that an existing application stops working; yeah, I know, our gnome law ...
<dholbach> mdz: but we have a list of "bugs to be forwarded upstream" now and I advertised it in some places
<mdz> we should encourage more folks to forward bugs upstream. is there a good howto?
<mdz> dholbach: oh, good. using a tag or something?
<dholbach> mdz: opening an empty upstream task is enough
<dholbach> mdz: you can search for them
<seb128> mdz: opening an upstream task not linked to any bug as discussed in wiesbaden
<dholbach> mdz: for "you can get involved here" tasks we use 'ubuntulove' :-)
<mdz> you can search for that now?
<seb128> looks like ;)
<mdz> oh, look at that. wonderful
<mdz> we should advertise that more widely
<mdz> need to move on though
<mdz> thanks seb128
<mdz> sfllaw: next
<sfllaw> Done:
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
<sfllaw>  * Looked into interns at Cgep John Abbott
<sfllaw>  * Various meetings
<sfllaw> To do:
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
<sfllaw>  * Prepare for UbuntuHugDay
<sfllaw>  * Work with seb128 and dholbach to get a desktop triaging team in place
<sfllaw>  * Get in touch with LaptopTestingTeam for installer testing
<mdz> sfllaw: let's make bug forwarding a highlight of this next bug day
<sfllaw> Sounds like a good plan.
<sfllaw> I'll construct some searches for that.
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> especially desktop team bugs
<dholbach> i added them to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs
* pitti wonders whether it's feasible to pythonize bug forwarding :)
<mdz> that requires only registering in one upstream bug tracker to forward lots of bugs
<sfllaw> Well, either GNOME or KDE.
<mdz> right
<sfllaw> Riddell: What are good search parameters for KDE bugs?
<Riddell> sfllaw: how do you mean?
<dholbach> kubuntu-team bugs
<mdz> sfllaw: were you in the loop on the milestone testing in montreal? how did it go from your perspective?
<sladen> pitti: single-page edit-describtion, edit-subject, click, go, Wizard for that in LP would be wonderful
<Riddell> kubuntu-team is subscribed to the important stuff
<sfllaw> mdz: With the certification lab?  No, I think I missed the memo.
<sfllaw> mdz: I'll talk to them in person.
<mdz> sladen: filing bugs is easy; it's establishing communication between upstream and the reporter which is hard
<mdz> sfllaw: ok. the general plan is that they should test on the lab machines when we do a milestone
<Hobbsee> Riddell: sometimes.  often not a lot.
<sfllaw> mdz: If jbailey is cool with that, I'm happy.
<mdz> for hardware issues specifically as well as the usual functional test
<mdz> sfllaw: jbailey and I agreed on this in mallorca, it's a done deal
<doko> sfllaw: please could you document the when-do-i-close/reject-a-bug-report?
<mdz> we basically need to do it anyway to keep up certifications, and we can get a lot of general testing along the way for free
<mdz> sfllaw: ok, thanks
<mdz> zul: next?
<zul> Done:
<zul>    * kernel security patches
<zul>    * kernel security testing
<zul>    * kernel bug triaging
<zul>    * new xen-tools fixing
<zul>    * new xen snapshot
<zul> To-Do:
<zul>    xen-restricted moduels
<zul>    more drivers for the xen kernel
<zul>    xen rcs control
<mdz> zul: is there a howto for how to try out xen?
<zul>    xen bug fixing
<zul> yes its on the wiki
<Mithrandir> zul: do you want my x-r-m stuff or do you have something mostly-working already?
<mdz> zul: I suggest highlighting it in this week's UWN to get people interested
<zul> Mithrandir: can you send me your xrm stuff im trying to get the new snapshot working again
<zul> mdz: sure
<mdz> zul: cool, thanks
<mdz> mvo: next
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - Implemented CDRom support in dist-upgrader and put it onto the CD
<mvo> - dist-upgrader testing
<mvo> - update-manager improvments (better dist-upgrader integration, better cache representation)
<mvo> - added printer-sharing to gnome-cups-manager
<mvo> - implemented apt--install-recommends support for only certain sections (to implement meta-packages recommends support)
<mvo> - added recommends-support to germinate 
<mvo> - bug triage
<mvo> - SoC mentoring (apt-sync)
<mvo> - misc stuff (synaptic,gnome-app-install,dist-upgrader fixes, command-not-found)
<mvo> Specs:
<mvo> - cdrom-based-dist-upgrades (ready, needs testing)
<mvo> - dependency-removal (aptitude needs performance tuning, otherwise ready; will display auto-remove list if non-empty and give hint to use apt-get autoremove)
<mvo> - gai-popcon: implemented, we could do with more people using popocon
<mvo> - recommends-support (ready, only turned by default for meta-packages now)
<mvo> - apt-ddtp (ready, seb128 discovered it today. the rosetta<->souyz think it not automatic yet, but needs manual updating)
<mvo> - command-not-found-magic (in the archive)
<mvo> - simple-popcon-participation (done)
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - bugs
<mvo> - test the auto-dist-upgrade testing going on a official machine
<iwj> mvo: is g-a-i fixed now ? :-)
<mvo> iwj: *shhhhsss*
<mdz> mvo: most of your stuff is in a state of landed-but-needs-testing...I suggest the same as for zul; get the word out about these features and encourage folks to test
<mdz> UWN, -devel-announce, as appropriate
<mdz> there's some cool stuff in there
<mvo> I will do that
<mdz> thanks mvo
<Kamion> I should do that with s-i-k too
<mdz> iwj: next
* mvo considers getting a blog
<mdz> Kamion: indeed
<mdz> there's no rule that we can't have more than one feature of the week in UWN ;-)
<iwj> week after the sprint: was on holiday
<iwj> package-dependency-field-breaks: Changes to apt and aptitude now properly done: apt changes to support Break fully (from wiesbaden, now tested, working) and aptitude changes to treat it like Conflicts.  List of packages constructed for deployment for edgy upgrades - about a dozen in required and standard are my first ones to look at.
<iwj> suggest-packages-for-filetypes: Completed during the sprint (thanks to mvo for some optimisations to improve gnome-app-install's speed too) but unfortunately broken since.  mvo has the token atm for gnome-app-install atm AIUI, which is the last thing still to be put back to working.
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment: No change since last report.
<iwj> next week: firefox beta 2 (joy) (needs uvf exception, obviously); taking a look at the bug lists; trying out Breaks (let's try again) in a package or two, to check all is well before doing it a bit more widely; etc.
<iwj> if I'm really lucky: automated-testing: packaging the xen setup scripts into autopkgtest
<mdz> iwj: the last apt upload I saw said that the breaks changes were untested; is that no longer true?
<iwj> There's nothing in the archive that uses the breaks changes but I have tested them locally and they DTRT.
<mvo> iwj: sorry for the breakage, I will fix that tomorrow
<iwj> mvo: NP :-)
<mdz> ok, please land at least one Breaks this week (leaving time to see the effects before you go for the weekend) to start exercising it
<iwj> mdz: Right, willdo.
<mdz> iwj: is there still hope of seeing a final firefox for edgy?
<iwj> mdz: I haven't been following ff upstream.
<iwj> So I don't know.
<mdz> the last I heard from them they hoped to land it before our final date, but it sounded awfully close
<iwj> Heh heh.
<Kamion> iwj: feels to me like we should avoid Breaks in required and important for now, since that could be in dpkg/apt's dependency chain
<iwj> I think we'll just have to go with whatever beta is available, really.
<dholbach> there was a new version to experimental, no?
<Kamion> at least, extreme care would be called for there
<iwj> Kamion: That shouldn't be a problem, really.  Talk about it tomorrow morning ?
<Kamion> iwj: sure
<Kamion> when we're both more awake
<iwj> Quite.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> iwj: so -breaks can go to beta status once it's being exercised in the archive, and you'll be ok for FF
<iwj> Right.
<iwj> I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow.
<mdz> great, thanks
<mdz> doko: next
<iwj> 01:09 <iwj> I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow.
<iwj> 01:09 <mdz> great, thanks
<iwj> Err, sorry :-).
<doko> - this week
<doko>   - edgy-toolchain: address libstdc++ ABI issues on powerpc and sparc; mcpp
<doko>     update
<doko>   - java-roadmap: provide a 32bit java runtime on amd64
<doko>   - openoffice.org - OOo 2.0.4 rc1 packages, ia32-libs updates,
<doko>     -l10n and -amd64 updates for dapper-proposed, test builds on all
<doko>     release architectures, testing on i386 and powerpc, work around
<doko>     sparc problems with smp kernels.
<doko>     build problems: OOo currently only builds on the machines in the
<doko>     datacenter, not on fresh edgy installs. same problem we had in
<doko>     dapper at the end.
<doko>   - python2.5 added as a supported python version. python2.5 related
<doko>     rebuilds scheduled for tonight.
<doko>   - other: some toolchain related phone calls, SoC nagging, machine upgrade
<doko> - this week / next week:
<doko>   - OOo tests, bug triage
<doko>   - python cleanup
<doko>   - OOoCon
<doko> - edgy+1: write a checker/generator for "Replaces" fields ...
<iwj> doko: Replaces> eh ?
<mdz> doko: are your statuses in LP up to date?
<doko> iwj: I'm tired to find out file moves between binaries built from the same source by hand
<mdz> none of your specs are past 'good progress' yet
<mvo> doko: what about the upgrade problem from dapper->edgy when python2.3 breaks? I have seen a few duplicates of this
<doko> mdz: will update them tonight.
<iwj> doko: Ah.
<iwj> Count me interested ...
<mdz> doko: is edgy-toolchain-roadmap complete for feature freeze?
<Seveas> mvo, 'a few'... closer to 'a few dozen'
<mdz> and python-roadmap?
<mvo> Seveas: :)
<doko> yes, it was complete last week (if you count the ABI problem as a bug report)
<mdz> doko: please send me a mail when they are up to date so that we can discuss, and remember to update before meetings
<doko> mdz: ok
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> did I miss anyone?
<Keybuk> me
<mdz> Keybuk: you're up
<Keybuk> New Note 11
<Keybuk> Done:
<Keybuk>  * On Leave
<Keybuk>  * Upstart into main and ubuntu-minimal
<Keybuk>  * Transition requires a double dist-upgrade run, or use of the update tool (can't be helped due to dpkg/apt "features")
<Keybuk> To do:
<Keybuk>  * Start on some bug fixes
<Keybuk>  * Finish off upstart article for Linux.com
<Keybuk> BootMessageLogging: 
<Keybuk>  * I think we were on crack when we wrote this spec, it turned into something of a christmas tree
<Keybuk>  * Assuming it's ok to simplify it to just "boot messages are logged to a file, and not displayed if 'quiet' on the kernel command-line" then it can be marked as implemented with my next upstart upload and we can focus on the other things later
<Keybuk>  * Given the above, checkroot, checkfs and cryptdisks need special treatment -- but they'll need that for the new usplash too anyway
<Keybuk>  * Otherwise I'm deferring it and leaving messages on the console (new usplash hides them on tty8 anyway)
<Keybuk> DashAsBinSh:
<Keybuk>  * Implemented early in the cycle
<Keybuk>  * Opted not to change /bin/sh from a diverted symlink as the code that's there works with lots of different shells and actually works, no matter how unaesthetic
<Keybuk>  * A few, but no major, shell issues have been reported and dealt with.  I'm not aware of any outstanding ones.
<Keybuk> ReplacementInit:
<Keybuk>  * Really happy with how well this has gone, has been installed by default for a few days and still only getting trivial bugs
<Keybuk>  * Deferred changes to initscripts to edgy+1 due to problems with LVM, etc. uncovered during testing; would rather attack these on a fresh release than break edgy at this point
<mdz> Keybuk: I didn't notice upgrade weirdness with upstart, though I had some issues with oo.o which may have masked it
<Keybuk>  * Have an active community for upstart already
<Keybuk>  * Already speccing out edgy+1 things that will probably be implemented "upstream" as we go anyway
<Keybuk>  * General query ... given that development will be continuing (e.g. changes to events and job states coming rsn) should I maintain this in edgy post-FF or only upload bug fixes and instead have a separate archive?
<Keybuk> Teardown:
<Keybuk>  * Implemented early in the cycle
<Keybuk>  * A few things have crept back in, will treat those as bugs
<Keybuk> AutomakeTransition:
<Keybuk>  * deferred until edgy+1
<Keybuk>  * Debian will probably do most of this for us
<Keybuk>  * automake 1.9 is the highest priority alternative in edgy
<Keybuk> LibAtaForAtaDisks
<Keybuk>  * Not strictly my spec, but I helped with it
<Keybuk>  * The kernel-side was deferred in favour of waiting for upstream to shake out the bugs now the patches are landing in 2.6.19
<Keybuk>  * The UUID stuff went in though, we have working mount-by-uuid, swap-by-uuid and resume-by-uuid
<Keybuk>  * Unless you use any filesystem fabbione cares about, of course, but he can fix those problems :p
<Keybuk> -- 
<Keybuk> oops, that was a little more verbose than I intended :p  it looked smaller on the note
<Keybuk> mdz: basically dpkg/apt/synaptic will refuse to upgrade ubuntu-minimal on the first try, because it'd remove an essential package (sysvinit)
<Keybuk> but on the second try, sysvinit got upgraded to non-essential, so then it updates ubuntu-minimal, removes sysvinit and installs upstart
<Keybuk> the update tool special-cases this
<mdz> Keybuk: the important bit of boot-message-logging was capturing console output
<Keybuk> and everyone who does it by hand is pretty used to looping several times anyway
<mvo> Keybuk: I teached the upgrader about it already
<mdz> Keybuk: will tomorrow's upstart handle that part?
<Keybuk> mdz: indeed, it will.  console output will be sent to /var/log/boot
<Kamion> Keybuk: oh, err, we never did do yaboot, unless Ben did it
<Kamion> IIRC he took the token from me with my wholehearted blessing
<Kamion> for libata-for-ata-disks
<mdz> Keybuk: ok then, I'd be happy with that.  iirc I raised some questions about the feeping creaturism in that spec at the summit ;-)
<Keybuk> mdz: ok, that'll go in today
<mdz> Keybuk: regarding ongoing development of upstart, it depends on what you plan to do.  intrusive stuff shouldn't go into edgy at this point
<Keybuk> defining intrusive is tricky ;p
<mdz> but simple and safe is ok for the sake of minimizing branchiness and keeping momentum
<mdz> Keybuk: having a diversion responsible for handling my /bin/sh gives me the creeps
<Keybuk> of course, the only things using upstart in edgy are the upstart package itself
<Keybuk> mdz: I know ... but that diversion code works, and works for a whole number of different shells
<mdz> Keybuk: the impact of bugs can be...er...severe :-)
<iwj> Hit ^C at the wrong moment and *crunch*
<iwj> IMO it's a serious bug for one of the essential bits of an essential package to be diverted.
<mdz> Keybuk: let's play it by ear; let's talk about the specific changes you want ot land as they come along
<Keybuk> we never actually made dash essential
<iwj> Unless you take huge especial care of carefulness.
<Kamion> Keybuk: bash is essential and /bin/sh is its essential bit
<iwj> bash is essential and /bin/sh is its most essential bit.
<Keybuk> mdz: *nods* my gut feeling is that I should branch it at the stable point for FF, and then be conversative on the edgy branch
<Kamion> wow, snap
<mdz> Kamion,iwj: ...
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> that's the reason we didn't make dash essential <g>  there was no need
<mdz> ok, on that note
<mdz> any other business?
<Mithrandir> I'd like to go to sleep. :-P
<iwj> I would delete Keybuk's /bin/sh but I need some sleep first :-).
<mdz> oh, one quick note: we now have a 'Not Started' state in the spec tracker.  use it.
<mdz> no spec should be in 'Unknown' state anymore unless we're truly unsure about where it stands, which will be an unusual case
<Kamion> will specs start out at that rather than Unknown in the future?
<mdz> unclear; I think Unknown might make sense as an initial state because sometimes specs postdate the start of work
<Kamion> mdz: one of the five Edgy specs in Unknown is yours :-)
<mdz> Kamion: I'll be fixing that shortly
<Keybuk> d'oh
<mdz> ok, good night folks
<Kamion> oh, which reminds me, we never turned on universe and multiverse by default for edgy
<Kamion> -> #ubuntu-devel, I won't hold up people's sleep for this
<dholbach> good night folks
<mdz> agreed
<iwj> Goodnight ...
<mdz> adjourned
<fschoep> good night everyone
<pitti> good night everyone *yawn*
<mvo> good night everyone
<kwwii> night
<Hobbsee> jono: you still around?
<jono> Hobbsee, yep for a few mins
<jono> :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Handbook | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-09
<imbrandon> @schedule us/chicago
<imbrandon> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 11 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu Handbook | 12 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 07:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 07:00: Edubuntu
<imbrandon> @schedule 
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 11 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu Handbook | 12 Sep 20:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-03
<takdir> hi .. test
<n2diy> failed :)
<WaVeR> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 03 Sep 15:00: Community Council | 04 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team
<Zic> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 06:41:32 - Next meeting: Community Council in 6 hours 18 minutes
<Zic> @now Paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: September 03 2007, 08:41:45 - Next meeting: Community Council in 6 hours 18 minutes
<kraut> moin
<Mamarok> moin kraut
<kraut> aloha Mamarok
<Zic> xbright: hi :)
<xbright> hey
<Zic> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 10:31:02 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 28 minutes
<takdir> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 10:53:39 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 6 minutes
<PriceChild> @now london
<luisbg> hello all
<luisbg> =)
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/London: September 03 2007, 11:59:53 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 0 minutes
<luisbg> I thought UTC was GTM -1 right now
<luisbg> hello jono
<jono> heya luisbg
<jsgotangco> still 2 hours to go
<luisbg> jsgotangco, I rushed to get home in time thinking it was now :( lol
<pkern> luisbg: UTC is GMT, but BST (British Summer Time) is GMT+1.
<luisbg> pkern, I must've looked to a website that didn't consider BST when I checked UTC two days ago
<takdir> @now makassar
<ubotu> Current time in Asia/Makassar: September 03 2007, 19:03:36 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 56 minutes
<takdir> :)
<popey> hey pkern, I see you're up for membership today :)
<popey> good luck (not that I think you will need luck)
<luisbg> popey, the list is quite big
<popey> blimey, so it is :)
<pkern> popey: I sincerly hope that it's not related to luck. Well, I don't even have a fanclub to bring here.
<luisbg> pkern, I think the fanclub/advocates should be handled through a mailing list
<popey> well, I have pencillied in to come here and support you, so if nobody else comes, I will vouch for you :)
<luisbg> since a lot of people can't make it to the meeting
<pkern> popey: Oh, thanks. (:
<ziroday> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 11:25:51 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 34 minutes
<ziroday> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 11:42:49 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 17 minutes
<luisbg> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 11:56:35 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 3 minutes
<Zic> @now Paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: September 03 2007, 14:11:04 - Next meeting: Community Council in 48 minutes
<atlas95> salut
<juliux> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 Sep 13:00: Community Council | 04 Sep 15:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 03 Sep 15:00: Community Council | 04 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team
<takdir> udienzMahyuddin: how r u ? :)
<toutouff> @now paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: September 03 2007, 14:43:57 - Next meeting: Community Council in 16 minutes
<udienzMahyuddin> takdir: fine..are you Muhammad Takdir??
<ziroday> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 12:44:37 - Next meeting: Community Council in 15 minutes
<takdir> udienzMahyuddin: just whois :)
<udienzMahyuddin> takdir: :D
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team
<arthur-> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Community Council | 04 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team
<suksit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Community Council | 04 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team
<fluoblack> bonjour a tous
<arthur-> hello Zic
<Zic> hi :)
<arthur-> Zic: tu me refiles l'url de ta page gros?
<Zic> arthur-: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JonathanMarsaud
<arthur-> thx
<Zic> bapoumba: here ?
<bigon> hello all, bonjour a tous :)
<bapoumba> Zic, Yep
<jsgotangco> still 5 minutes on my side let's see if we could get a quorum
<Zic> bapoumba: bien, pression ou pas ? :] 
<mr_pouit> :)
<bapoumba> Zic, a little :)
<arthur-> :] 
<bapoumba> hey mr_pouit
<arthur-> salut bapoumba
<mr_pouit> hey bapoumba
<Mamarok> hi bapouma!
<arthur-> Zic: ben dis donc t'en a chopp des testimonials
<arthur-> sacr Zic
<bapoumba> Hi arthur- and Mamarok
<Zic> arthur-: j'ai fais ce que m'a recommend Tonio-, demandez aux orga des party qui taffent avec moi
* Mamarok is AKA Myriamrs
<arthur-> :] 
<sanguinarius> ^^
<bapoumba> Hey Myriam ;)
<Zic> bon, on va peut-tre parler anglais, le meeting va bientt commencer
<arthur-> non non
<arthur-> pas question
<jsgotangco> lo MikeB
<arthur-> :P
<bapoumba> Hey MikeB :)
<MikeB> morning all
<Zic> fluoblack: re :)
<arthur-> tiens un davromaniak
<fluoblack> yop Zic
<fluoblack> et bapoumba
<jsgotangco> ok
<bapoumba> Hello fluo :)
<davromaniak> j'espre que mon tour passera rapidement
<jsgotangco> dholbach: ping :)
<dholbach> hello everybody
<pkern> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 12:59:55 - Current meeting: Community Council
<whs> is ubuntu community concil now?
<whs> hi everybody
<jsgotangco> hi
<PriceChild> whs, yes
<davromaniak> hi
<dholbach> hey jsgotangco
<whs> PriceChild: thank you
<paulliu> hi.
<rooneyyy> hi
<Zic> davromaniak: you could come then \o/
<FunnyLookinHat> let's get this party started   : )
<fluoblack> yeeee!!!
<jsgotangco> let's do this then
<jsgotangco> its been a while :)
<jsgotangco> hopefully the momentum starts again :)
<davromaniak> Zic, not for long time, maybe an hour
<sanguinarius> ok let'sgo
<theDtTvB2> Hello all, and hi whs!
<davromaniak> I have a question, I will be hl when it will be my turn ??
<dholbach> we have quite a full agenda today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<whs> hi gumara
<rooneyyy> hey
<theDtTvB2> Hello, gumara!
<gumara> whs: hi
<theDtTvB2> Hey, rooneyyy also!
<rooneyyy> yo
<theDtTvB2> Ya.
<jtv>  gumara
<jsgotangco> hey guys, chill first, or we won't get anywhere
<whs> hi jtv
<rooneyyy> hi jtv
<jtv> whs: hi
<Mamarok> could we begin where we ended last time?
<jtv> rooneyyy!
<whs> jtv: blognone?
<rooneyyy> :)
<deadwill> hey dholbach
<arthur-> hello dholbach
<Mamarok> hi dholbach:-)
<theDtTvB2> rooneyyy: jtv, who?
<dholbach> calc has the first agenda item today:  CC should have an alternate way to approve members due to timezone conflicts with work/school
<dholbach> calc: are you around?
<fluoblack> yop ThibG
<Zic> ThibG: hi ! :)
<lindever> jtv, sawaddee krub
<ThibG> Hi, Zic, fluoblack
<jsgotangco> err guys
<jsgotangco> chill first
<jsgotangco> we've started
<dholbach> it seems that calc is not around, I think he might still be sleeping
<whs> jtv: if you r thais please go 2 #ubuntu-th
<dholbach> for the approval of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlineMembershipApproval I'd like us to be more than 3 CC members to be honest
<whs> ok, rooneyyy tell me you r jeruon
<dholbach> as it will change the way work quite dramatically
<jsgotangco> yeah
<dholbach> whs: we've started, could you take chat somewhere else?
<MikeB> whs: please take out topic discussion to another room
<jtv> whs: I'm not Thai
<whs> dholbach: ok, i'm on #ubuntu-th
<dholbach> I pinged elmo, mako and sabdfl - let's postpone the approval of that spec for a bit and see if we can get it done, when they are around
<dholbach> whs: thanks
<jsgotangco> but going to discussion
<gumara> jtv: Community Council is begin?
<jsgotangco> while this has not yet in place
<jsgotangco> we need to have our meetings in a regular basis again
<jsgotangco> because the last time we did
<dholbach> yes, that's mdke point on the agenda
<jsgotangco> was almost 2 months ago
<jsgotangco> or proably more
<dholbach> unfortunate that he's not around at the moment :-/
<jsgotangco> he's usually at work at this time
<dholbach> yeah
<jsgotangco> but we should make it a point to ourselves in the council
<jsgotangco> to make follow ups in email
<jsgotangco> its not the greatest solution out there
<dholbach> jsgotangco, MikeB: do you know which rotating solution mdke suggested?
<jsgotangco> but i think we should make it a point to have at least 3 on approvals of membership at lest
<dholbach> yeah, I agree
<jsgotangco> if i recall correctly
<jsgotangco> there is the usual 15UTC
<jsgotangco> and late one
<jsgotangco> making it twice in a month
<MikeB> no
<theDtTvB2> Sorry to ask, but, what is the current topic?
<theDtTvB2> :-/
<dholbach> theDtTvB2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda - 3rd point
<jsgotangco> MikeB: do you recall? I rmember you arrangning for today's meeting though
<udienzMahyuddin> dholbach: ok
<MikeB> we should have meeting the rotate to good time for North/South America, Europe/Africa , and Asia
<theDtTvB2> Thank you, dholbach.
<dholbach> so you propose 3 meeting times?
<MikeB> dholbach: yes
<pkern> What's "good"? 20h local time?
* takdir agree with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlineMembershipApproval
<dholbach> 13:00 utc would be which one?
<takdir> @now makassar
<ubotu> Current time in Asia/Makassar: September 03 2007, 21:09:57 - Current meeting: Community Council
<jsgotangco> 13UTC and up usually applies to Europe and majority of Asia
<jsgotangco> but not much for pacific islands
<whs> @now bangkok
<ubotu> Current time in Asia/Bangkok: September 03 2007, 20:10:17 - Current meeting: Community Council
* udienzMahyuddin @ Surabaya
<deadwill> i think 13utc is a good time here (Brazil)
<jsgotangco> not to stray too much
<jsgotangco> but I believe MikeB did a matrix for council people
<dholbach> right, so what about a meeting at 13:00, one at 20:00 and one at another time?
<dholbach> 20 would be good for the US (and for mdke :-))
<elkbuntu> and it's 11pm here in eastern Australia, which is comparably reasonable
<MikeB> elkbuntu: not if we have a 3 hour meeting
<paulliu> How about pick a co-prime of 12....??
<elkbuntu> MikeB, it's comparably reasonable to starting one at 5am
<elmo> sorry I'm late, sabdfl is on his way too
<jsgotangco> cool
<MikeB> elmo: no prob
<dholbach> shall we transform the discussion into an action item to make a table of when the CC members are available and how 2-3h meetings would look?
<jsgotangco> 13UTC and up pretty much covers Asia and AU not to mention EU
<jsgotangco> yeah
<dholbach> elmo: we skipped point 1&2 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda because we wanted have more than 3 people to decided those points
<elmo> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> MikeB: as you seem to have worked on the table, would you agree to put the information on a wiki table or something, so we can all look at it and discuss it on the list?
<MikeB> dholbach: sure I will put it into the wiki
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, as MikeB pointed out, it's probably approaching the 'too lateness' factor for many in eastern AU. not all of us are insomniacs like me and hobbsee :
<dholbach> MikeB: thanks a lot - shall we move on and discuss the times on the list to make sure we get regular meetings happen that way?
<Hobbsee> australians learn to be insomniacs, for this kind of thing...
<WaVeR> What's the final decision? You skip the CC!
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, hehe, not possible for everyone though
<dholbach> WaVeR: we did that because we were only 3 CC members and agreed to wait until we are more - sabdfl is on his way, then we'll get back to items 1 and 2
<WaVeR> oke, thanks
<dholbach> jsgotangco, MikeB, elmo: is it ok for you to defer the timezone discussion until MikeB came up with the timezone table on the wiki?
<jsgotangco> im fine
<MikeB> fine here
<dholbach> ok good
<elmo> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> hey sabdfl
<jsgotangco> yo
<willwill> hi sabdfl
<MikeB> sabdfl: morning sabdfl
<udienzMahyuddin> hey sabdfl
<theDtTvB2> Hello, sabdfl
<rooneyyy> hi sabdfl
<jsgotangco> ok let's save meet and greet later
<sabdfl> sorry for the delay, where are we in the agenda?
<dholbach> sabdfl: to recap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda is our agenda and we already deferred point 3 until MikeB comes up with a timezone table, where we can schedule regular meeting times
<dholbach> we should move back to point 2 now (which includes point 1)
<jono> hi all
<_MMA_> jono: \m/
<Zic> our sabdfl \o/
<dholbach> the spec is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlineMembershipApproval
<theDtTvB2> Hello, pfz
<pFz> theDtTvB2, moin
<sabdfl> dholbach: do you have comments or feedback based on the MOTU council process that has been running for a while now?
<theDtTvB2> \o/
<dholbach> I like the proposed process and think that it will be easier to stay on top of membership applications
<dholbach> sabdfl: I think it's a good idea that the process will be based on wiki pages and email for the CC (in the supervisory mode) - that way it will be easy to follow up on membership approval at every time of the day
<dholbach> that's something I like about the MC organisation too
<MikeB> it is a good spec, but I thought at one time we were planning to have our current governance boards (Forums Council, Tech board) do this, rather than regional teams
<jono> I am unsure of the 'Governance Review' and its intention
<jono> regarding Dennis and myself drawing up a regular review of governance
<jsgotangco> not to mention each project has its own council with memberships as well
<jono> I would suggest that the CC should draw up such suggestions
<jono> I would not want to undermine the CC
<jono> other than that, I think this spec is looking good
<sabdfl> MikeB: we will allow both routes
<MikeB> sabdfl: cool
<sabdfl> in other words, if we have a well-run structure ("Forums" or "Art" or "Marketing" or "MOTU") then we can delegate to that structure
<sabdfl> alternatively, there are the regional catch-alls
<sabdfl> folks will probably have their best success through the teams, because those are the people they actually work with
<theDtTvB2> Sorry to ask, but, what is MOTU?
<sabdfl> any further comments?
<dholbach> I feel the intention of the 'governance review' is to assure that the CC still stays in touch with growing teams in the community and through public discussion creates bonds between teams and encourage team leaders
<jono> the spec does not outline how the councils are elected - I assume the CC nominates
<dholbach> theDtTvB2: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<sabdfl> theDtTvB2: Masters of the Universe repository
<theDtTvB2> Thank you, dholbach.
<jono> dholbach: I think part of that will be solved with my team reporting work I am about to release
<jono> dholbach: which was also need to come before the CC
<sabdfl> the reason for having a program of review is so that we don't just focus on problem areas
<dholbach> jono: that sounds great - I, too, think that who draws up the regular review is debatable, but I like the idea in its essence
<jono> sabdfl: I agree, but I just wonder why it should be Dennis and Myself as arbeiters of such review
<sabdfl> we should try to get to every major structure twice a year, for example
<jono> I am happy to contribute of course, but I want to ensure it is within the spirit of the CC
<sabdfl> not arbiters so much as coordinators
<jono> could I suggest that the CC nominate a coordinator
<sabdfl> dennis often manages this agenda, and you help the teams to get themselves into shape for presentation
<sabdfl> fine by me
<jono> I am happy to be considered as a nominee
<MikeB> one thing I think we may want to add is some type of membership mentoring. I think some people who come up for membership just need some need understanding the process and tweaking their wiki page to better reflect their contributions to Ubuntu
<jono> MikeB: yes, that largely comes to me right now - I get personal emails regarding it
<jsgotangco> wonder if that can be done in LP
<jsgotangco> (the mentoring part)
<jono> MikeB: think it could be useful to have a small team to assist with this
<Daviey> MikeB: If they need that sort of help, and cannot find it themsleves - by asking ; do you think they are ready for membership?
<dholbach> maybe we need better documentation about the process (and/or remove stale links/docs)?
<MikeB> Daviey: some people are just shy
<elkbuntu> Daviey, and there's always language issues too
<Daviey> elkbuntu: agreed
<luisbg> elkubuntu, +1
<dholbach> MikeB: that we should try to solve by educating 'team leaders' or long standing members to be more encouraging
<elkbuntu> which adds the thought that maybe if someone is not fluent enough in english, that they should be put in touch with a buddy who is
<hjmf> elkbuntu: +1
<sabdfl> we can make the process clearer, but "membership" should be for people who are well past that
<ziroday> lol
<ziroday> the new ones okay
<ziroday> but words not in "lolcat" style
<dholbach> I am a bit wary about mentoring as in 'dedicated mentors' myself, we're discussing it in the motu team at the moment
<jono> how about we first get membership councils up and running
<ziroday> oh woops sorry wrong convo
<jono> mentoring can wait I suspect
<jono> one step at a time
<elkbuntu> i agree with jono
<dholbach> I agree with jono
<elkbuntu> jinx!
<sabdfl> members are folks who have moved to the point of making a sustained and substantial contribution to some part of the project
<jono> membership councils are going to be an excellent help
<dholbach> one open point was the nomination of team council (can I write TC now? :-)) members
<sabdfl> ok, what process are we going to follow to constitute those membership review teams?
<jono> dholbach: indeed
<sabdfl> and is there any overlap between membership review, and loco review?
<jono> sabdfl: I would like to propose a loco council in the future for loco review - loco is getting very big now
<sabdfl> i am also not sure we want to call these regional review boards "council"'s
<sabdfl> i would be happy with a loco council, yes
<jono> sabdfl: +!
<jono> +!
<jono> damn
<jono> +1
<elkbuntu> whoa, someone's excited?
<atoponce> "review board" seems to be appropriate enough
<jono> I would recommend the CC nominates members for the regional boards
<sabdfl> suggestions on how we pull together 30 people to be the initial group?
<jono> so long as the CC has blessing, I think most people will be happy
<pleia2> jono: +1, US is gaining momentum and I expect a lot of teams will be coming up for approval soon
<sabdfl> elmo: any comments?
<PriceChild> a few prominent LoCo leaders from the different regions?
<FunnyLookinHat> I know I'm not on the CC - But my 2 cents....  You want to expedite the process locally?  Use LoCo teams with approved members.  Structure is in place and provides a more efficient method to getting people to the decision point for membership.
<jono> just so everyone knows, I am happy to draft a loco council proposal for the CC - I will post to loco-contacts for people to weigh in
<dholbach> I like the idea of a loco <review institution> too
<elmo> sabdfl: sounds ok to me - would like to ensure there's good reporing coming back from the loco council thou
<sabdfl> a global loco council is going to have the same TZ issues that CC and TB have
<elkbuntu> jono, would it be fair for me to nominate to assist you with that
<jsgotangco> that makes sense
<elkbuntu> s/nominate/nominate myself/
<sabdfl> stepping afk for 10
<jono> elkbuntu: everyone is welcome :)
<dholbach> sabdfl: true, but I doubt their approval list gets as long as the CC membership approval list :)
* elkbuntu nods to dholbach
<jono> sabdfl: I agree, but I don't think it would be wise to have regional loco boards, not yet
<dholbach> also elmo has a point: we should include proper and detailed reporting in the process
<jono> the primary issue here seems to be volume of members, not TZ
<willwill> jono: how many +1 need to be approved?
<jono> willwill: not quite there yet :)
<dholbach> sabdfl asked for suggestion on how to get those 30 initial team members of the review boards together
<jsgotangco> we can start nominations
<jsgotangco> and discuss on list
<jsgotangco> or approve jono to accept nominations which he can forward to CC list
<jono> dholbach: I recommend the CC collaborate on the names
<jono> with a conciousness of the TZ of those people
<dholbach> both sounds good
<jsgotangco> i think we can start this early
<dholbach> what do you think about 1) updating the spec (I can do that together with mdke) and 2) get the nomination process going at the same time, so we can move on?
<jono> maybe pull them together on a wiki and then nominate them - any places left people could apply and then be approved/rejected by the CC
* elkbuntu thinks that since this discussion has got to the point of being a mush of several ideas, that someone needs to formulate them into things to be voted on, because this may go on for a while yet and get confusing
<jono> dholbach: sounds sane
<dholbach> to my knowledge we adressed all the open points
<dholbach> but should re-review, maybe on list
<jono> yep
<jono> once those changes are merged in, I am guessing it is pretty much ready for approval
<jono> in the meantime the CC can gather its list of names
<dholbach> sabdfl, MikeB, jsgotangco, elmo: ok if we update the spec and re-review, and also get starting on the nominations on list?
<jono> so we can then be good to go soon
<MikeB> dholbach: +1 and respec and review
<jono> respec!
<jono> :)
<dholbach> :-)
<MikeB> Jono: lol
<jsgotangco> im +1
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> ok, let's move on then
<dholbach> the IRCCouncil is up next
<MikeB> lets here some death metal Aretha Franklin
<PriceChild> *cheers*
<jono> MikeB: \m/
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil links to all of the IRC documents.
<dholbach> I don't know the current status, but I believe elmo had some reservations about the current implementation plan
<elmo> dholbach: those have been resolved
<PriceChild> We added in a part to the operator guidelines to resolve these I hope.
<PriceChild> woo good good elmo :)
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines
<jsgotangco> i guess this makes it a long overdue consideration then
<PriceChild> The proposed council is Myself, elkbuntu, nalioth, ljl and Seveas.
<jono> PriceChild: I havent kept up with the details of the IRC spec, but are many of the concerns from the UDS addresses?
<PriceChild> All are ubuntu members.
<jono> addressed
<PriceChild> jono, I think so yes.
<dholbach> PriceChild: do you believe that all the ops will follow the op guidelines?
<jono> PriceChild: excellent
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'd like to point out here that it's not a cut-and-dried "this will always be pursued in this order"
<jono> appeal process looks good, which was my main concern
<Hobbsee> dholbach: of course, you're welcome to fire the current ops, and find more, if htey dont qualify to the letter
<PriceChild> dholbach, In my opinion the guidelines are common sense and nothing extreme. Yes I believe all the ops will follow the guidelines, none have expressed any major concern over pm or irc.
<Hobbsee> er, follow the guidelines to the letter.
<Hobbsee> as in, sometimes the number of warnings might be shortened, etc, just due to how much the person is disrupting the channel.  or whatever.
<dholbach> ok
<PriceChild> or over the mailing list I meant.
<jono> as a side issue, we should encourage best practise with our ops
<elkbuntu> jono, we already follow best practice
<Hobbsee> or at least, as much as the circumstances permit.
<elkbuntu> well as the circumstances permit is part of best practice
<elkbuntu> you dont offer numerous warnings to something flooding the channel to high heck
<dholbach> I haven't talked to jlj and nalioth myself - do you feel that the nominated irc council is going to have the support of most ircteam members?
<dholbach> sorry, I meant ljl
<Hobbsee> i'd say so
<PriceChild> The proposed council has been mentioned on he ML and in the -ops channel many times. I believe all active members of the ubuntu-irc team are aware of the names and none expressed any concern.
<dholbach> that's good to hear
<Hobbsee> the only thing that they have raised, i think, is that i'm not on it
<Hobbsee> iirc
<PriceChild> Hobbsee, you said you didn't want to be on it :)
<Hobbsee> exactly :)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: everybody seems to want you on their council :-)
<PriceChild> hehe
<elkbuntu> PriceChild, that doesnt stop people trying to change her mind ;)
<Hobbsee> (but people expected me to be)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: haha.  which reminds me, you should sort out the mc :)
* PriceChild still thinks you're silly
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I know - I'll start another discussion on TB and CC list about that
<dholbach> ok... MikeB, sabdfl, elmo, jsgotangco: any concerns or implemenation changes you want to raise? is this ok to start a vote on?
<jsgotangco> i think it was already addressed
<MikeB> dholbach: none here strong +1 for the irc council
<jsgotangco> i'm ok to give my overdue +1
<dholbach> I'd like to give sabdfl the chance to say something about it
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> I generally think the proposal is sound, so I'd also give my +1
<dholbach> shall we move on until sabdfl can cast his vote?
<jsgotangco> yes
<dholbach> ok
<PriceChild> How cruel :)
<dholbach> mdke wants us to discuss "As raised on the CC mailing list, can the CC do anything to help the gobuntu community in terms of guidelines over the scope of the project and whether/how community members can contribute?"
<dholbach> I might not have read that mail yet, does anybody know of what guidelines the gobuntu project might benefit?
<jsgotangco> i am not much familiar to the project and its community as a whole
<elmo> (is anyone from the gobuntu project here?)
<dholbach> also... wouldn't it make more sense to discuss this on the gobuntu and/or ubuntu-devel and/or ubuntu-derivatives list?
<popey> wasn't this specifically regarding the licenses around documentation and the freeness of them, and their potential incompatibility with a completely free distro?
<jsgotangco> the fact that documentation is dual licensed?
<willwill> hi sugree
<highvolt1ge> council wars!
<theDtTvB2> Hello, sugree!
<highvolt1ge> (oops)
<jono> stepping away to work, ping me if I am needed
<rooneyyy> hi sugree
* elkbuntu bops highvolt1ge over the head
<popey> jsgotangco: not sure
<elkbuntu> if the purpose of the gobuntu discussion is unclear, deferring is probably a wise idea... especially considering the length of the agenda page
<popey> mdke can't usually be here during the day
<sugree> hi rooney
<jsgotangco> i suggest we take it on th list again
<jsgotangco> i think we also need sabdfl's opinion on this
<elkbuntu> popey, indeed, and im unsure as to how developed the CC mind-reading powers are ;)
<myriam_rs> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 03 2007, 13:57:58 - Current meeting: Community Council
<jsgotangco> and we're taking an hour now
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, that was kind of my point re deferring
<jsgotangco> k
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> let's move on
<jsgotangco> Locoteams - only one ThaiTeam
<jsgotangco> anyone here from ThaiTeam?
<willwill> me
<jtv> gumara?
<gumara> me
<lindever> me too
<rooneyyy> me
<jtv> And I'm helping out if communication is a problem.
<willwill> and gumara lindever pFz rooneyyy suksit theDtTvB2
<rooneyyy> yeah
<lindever> sugree, you too?
<theDtTvB2> Well...
<gumara> sugree too
<suksit> hello
<atoponce> present your case before the CC then
<theDtTvB2> I am from Thai.
<sabdfl> catching up on scrollback
<myriam_rs> TahiTeam, don't be shy
<myriam_rs> thai, sorry
<sabdfl> let's keep the nomination process lightweight, just a wiki page with (nominee, nominated_by)
<jtv> Communication seems to be a problem.  :)
<sugree> sorry :)
<sabdfl> wiki is preferable to list for me
<sugree> just back from swimming pool
<sabdfl> list for discussions / controversies / debates
<sugree> got accident there
<willwill> here is our projects https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThaiTeam/Projects
<dholbach> not sure if my message made it to the channel some minutes ago, but I'll make the gobuntu item a: "ACTION: dholbach to scan CC mailing list and start a thread on said mailing lists"
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> I was in Bangkok a month ago!
<jsgotangco> attended TOSSFEST
<jsgotangco> i never met anyone from ThaiTeam
<jsgotangco> althought I did see the ubuntuclub booth
<jtv> An unfortunate choice of name...
<sugree> the reason is that
<willwill> jsgotangco: i'm on of the child there
<jtv> jsgotangco: you probably met some of them, but not under that name.
<sugree> most of the team are in other room
<sabdfl> +1 from me on IrcCouncil, with thanks to elmo for driving to a conclusion on the ops processes and the Irc team for being ready to take this on
<theDtTvB2> jsgotangco: On which day?
<elkbuntu> wow, the team has been busy this year
<willwill> jsgotangco: do you attended on the first day or the second day?
<sugree> talking about ubuntu in other room
<dholbach> congratulations IRC Council
<jsgotangco> i was there on the 1st day
<MikeB> congrats to IRC council
<jsgotangco> i saw the booth for sure
<theDtTvB2> That day I wasn't on the booth :-P
<willwill> jsgotangco: i'm there on the afternoon
<PriceChild> Wahey thanks! :D
<Hobbsee> yay, ops council!
<willwill> and back at about 1-2 pm
<sabdfl> re gobuntu, i think we need to empower people to work on things they care about
<sabdfl> but not expect miracles from thin air
<sabdfl> cjwatson has done the work to split out the kernel
<sabdfl> and i think address some installer issues
<sabdfl> more will require a team forming
<lindever> jsgotangco, I presented Gutsy Roadmap on the 2nd day in TOSSFEST.
<jsgotangco> I can confidently say I was present on the activity of the ThaiTeam during the TOSSFEST
<dholbach> how many people do you reckon are contributing to the thai team? also regarding the road map on the wiki: how far do you think you are reaching those goals?
<jtv> I did a search for something unrelated today, and one of the pages I found was one of their Thai translations of Ubuntu manuals.
<sabdfl> ubuntu guide looks good in thai!
<jtv> dholbach: I know several people who are actively involved
<sugree> yes we are trying to translating
<jtv> sabdfl: these kids know what they're doing.  You'll remember gumara, with the ponytail.
<sugree> and also writing a book
<sabdfl> i do, hey gumara
<willwill> dholbach: thai team has many members but 31 of them are administrator/moderator
<gumara> sabdfl: I'm here
<sugree> this book should be published after gutsy
<sabdfl> is the thai team membership maintained in LP?
<sugree> gumara is working hard to edit main content
<jsgotangco> i also saw the Ubuntu DVD in Thai
<willwill> sabdfl: excuse me, what is LP?
<jtv> LaunchPad
<dholbach> willwill: http://launchpad.net
<willwill> jtv: thank you
<sugree> i see
<willwill> i thinking of LPI :(
<jtv>  launchpad 
<sabdfl> many ubuntu teams are tracked in Launchpad
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers
<willwill> sabdfl: thai team has ubuntu-l10n-th on launchpad
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> jtv: very impressive every time you do that :-)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jtv> sabdfl: takes ages though :-)
<sabdfl> i think this team looks well run and busy, so +1 from me
<jsgotangco> I'm very impressed with IT in Thai in general
<MikeB> afk for a minute
<willwill> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-th
<sugree> i think we will quickly add ourselves to the LP after this meeting :)
<dholbach> hum... https://translations.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-th
<theDtTvB2> Sorry to ask, but, how do I join a team?
<theDtTvB2> Oh yeah, my fault, I haven't logged in.
<dholbach> ok, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+lang/th looks better
<jsgotangco> what are the ThaiTeams plans for softare freedom day?
<willwill> gumara: please explain to jsgotangco
<jtv> We talked about that yesterday:
<jtv> Gumara will be demo'ing Ubuntu (and apps, presumably)
<jtv> and we'll be handing out Ubuntu CDs and a Thai collection of free software for Windows.
<jtv> All this at the BigC mall in Rachadamri.
<jsgotangco> I've been there
<willwill> here is a map http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1266/1303660531_1494fff6a0_o.gif
<sabdfl> any other comments? elmo? dholbach?
<jtv> The free software for Windows should help dispel the widespread notion that open source and windows are mutually exclusive.
<jsgotangco> do it in Pantip too! That place needs freedom badly heh
<jtv> jsgotangco: that's been tried
<jsgotangco> really?
<jtv> The funny thing is, if it's free, people there believe it's worthless.
<theDtTvB2> jtv: Absolutely.
<sugree> jtv: i agree
<jtv> Recently a Thai game sold for more money there than legally.
<suksit> sad but true
<dholbach> I'm happy with the efforts of the thai team, happy to give my +1
<willwill> dholbach: thank you
<theDtTvB2> Thank you, dholbach.
<willwill> sabdfl: thank you
<jsgotangco> I hope to see the Ubuntu be successful like Joomla in Thailand
<jsgotangco> I'm all for +1 too
<MikeB> +1 here
<willwill> rooneyyy said sfd maybe change to TK park
<jsgotangco> I've seen their activity at least as an outsider and its good
<dholbach> congratulations, Thailand! :)
<theDtTvB2> Uhmm..
<willwill> jsgotangco: thank you
<rooneyyy> BIGC or TKPARK
<lindever> thank you
<theDtTvB2> Uhmm;;
<jtv> TK Park is opposite BigC
<rooneyyy> thank
<sabdfl> thank you guys for being part of Ubuntu
<theDtTvB2> willwill: Central World Plaza?
<sabdfl> all right, it's MEMBERSHIP time
<willwill> theDtTvB2: yeah
<jtv> 
<theDtTvB2> sabdfl: We're glad to :-)
<nat3> ^ ^
<rooneyyy> yeah
<dholbach> yoohoo
<rooneyyy> :)
<sugree> :)
<suksit> :)
<lindever> :)
<gumara> :)
<myriam_rs> Congratulations ThaiTeam :-)
<willwill> :)
<jtv> Thailand: land of smiles.  :)
<theDtTvB2> :-)
<willwill> hippy hooray!
<pFz> ;)
<udienzMahyuddin> :D congritulations....
<theDtTvB2> Hey, SvZ.
<luisbg> contrats ThaiTeam!
<dholbach> is j1mc around?
<willwill> hi SvZ, thai team got approved!
<willwill> is anyone willing to join our sfd?
<sabdfl> j1mc hjmf myriam_rs bryce who is here?
<elkbuntu> members should prepare themselves like right now this instant, and make their spiels nice and concise. that's one h00ge list awaiting...
<hjmf> i all!
<hjmf> My name is Hilario Montoliu, I'm an active member of the MozillaTeam since almost its creation (Jan 07) where asac and the other members are doing a superb work; basically my job in the team consists in triaging the mozilla-stuff related reports in a sustained way. Apart of triage, and related to the MozillaTeam, I've been working in the "Firefox Apport Hook", and helping in the "Firefox Add-On Support" blueprint.
<myriam_rs> I'm here
<elkbuntu> er, candidates
<SvZ> willwill, it very good news
<hjmf> ther Teams where I'm involved are Bughelper Developers Team, where I've done some contributions to python-launchpad-bugs. I'm also member of the Ubuntu QA Team. My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HMontoliu and my LP page at https://launchpad.net/~hmontoliu ... apologies for my poor and slow English :)
<hjmf> The people in MozillaTeam have been kind enough to leave some testimonials in my wiki page, for the case they were busy in my turn :)
* asac cheers ... a +2 from me for  hjmf \o/ ... GO!
<paulliu> me, too
<dholbach> sabdfl: we can remove brace from the list, he became MOTU already
<musashi> me to
<hjmf> thank you asac
<asac> Hilario's (hjmf) mozilla bug work and his other contributions to the mozillateam are of *real* outstanding and even better long-term nature (at least for 7 month now). Examples:
<asac> 1. Long before launchpad officially had autoretracers and auto-duplicate detection, Hilario already used his scripts (later python code) to do the same thing for our firefox crash reports.
<willwill> SvZ: candidate, sorry.
<asac> 2. His work managed to keep the amount of untriaged firefox bugs low, as well as the amount of open firefox bugs down at ~500 (iirc, we had a peek of ~750 a few month back).
* ogra waits to cheer for pkern 
<asac> So ... hjmf's membership is overdue imo GO!
<hjmf> :)
<ogra> (and myriam_rs :) )
<SvZ> amm...
<myriam_rs> thanks, ogra :-)
* Jazzva cheers for hjmf :)...
<dholbach> I committed patches of hjmf to bughelper, they were quite good
<hjmf> thanks Jazzva
<theDtTvB2> Sorry to ask, but, what is candidate?
<hjmf> tu dholbach
<asac> i am sure gnomefreak would cheer for hjmf as well ... but as far as i know he had to visit the doctor/hospital
<sabdfl> hjmf: hope to have a decent API for you to script in Python for LP soon :-)
* Fujitsu wonders why hjmf wouldn't be a member...
<Fujitsu> (already)
<jtv> theDtTvB2:  
<sabdfl> +1 from me based on MozillaTeam contribution, elmo, dholbach, MikeB, CC?
<jsgotangco> +1
<hjmf> sabdfl: thanks
<dholbach> +1 from me, based on good feedback and personal interaction on LP
<MikeB> +1 for hjmf
<hjmf> Fujitsu: thanks :)
<asac> sabdfl: afaik he uses launchpad-bugs-python ... but XML-RPC would be really great :)!
<elmo> +1
<sabdfl> asac: working on it
<dholbach> yeah, thekorn just changed the API of py-lp-bugs so we can easily use xmlrpc as a backend once it's there
<theDtTvB2> Thank you, jev.
<willwill> theDtTvB2: whois jev
<hjmf> thanks all of you :)
<theDtTvB2> s/jev/jtv/
<dholbach> congratulations hjmf
<hjmf> thanks dholbach :)
<asac> hjmf: congrats and nice to have you as an ubuntu member now!!!
<jtv> theDtTvB2:    :)
<hjmf> thanks asac for your support :)
<dholbach> myriam_rs: your stage :-)
<myriam_rs> > Hi, I'm Myriam Schweingruber from Switzerland
<myriam_rs> > Since I discovered, quite by accident, an early release of Warty Warthog in
<myriam_rs> > August 2004 I run Ubuntu (or one of it's flavors) on my laptop and server.
* ogra cheers loudly :)
<myriam_rs> > Curious about what drives Ubuntu I attended UDS in Paris and discovered an
<myriam_rs> > incredibly vibrant community, a gathering of skillfull and very bright people
<myriam_rs> > who collaborate with fun and energy. I also made a bunch of new friends in Paris
<myriam_rs> > :-) Since then I try to give back some of my skills, be it translating or
<myriam_rs> > gathering people in locale events: I give a hand in French translation (although
<myriam_rs> > there is seldom much left to translate) and try to report every bug I come
<myriam_rs> > across. My next steps will be to continue my work on a regular basis in
<myriam_rs> > the Swiss Team, organising meetings in IRC and RL. I also plan to join the
<myriam_rs> > mentoring program of Ubuntu Women where there is still a lot of work to do to
<myriam_rs> > attract more women in the community. I'll also try to attend either UDS Boston
<myriam_rs> > or Ubucon in Germany, although Ubucon seems to be more likely.
<myriam_rs> > Find my details here:
<myriam_rs> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MyriamSchweingruber
<pleia2> myriam_rs has been very helpful to the Ubuntu Women project, offering her unique view coming from being so active in her LoCo team and linux culture in general where she and oher women are very much accepted :)
* Nightrose cheers for myriam_rs - always nice to meet her at conferences and she is always willing to help
<Nightrose> I think she is a great addition to the community
<myriam_rs> any questions?
* elkbuntu cheers loudly for myriam_rs
* ogra cheers loudly again :)
* WaVeR cheers for myriam_rs
<jsgotangco> I can't think of any questions
<myriam_rs> thanks a lot for your support, friends :-)
<jsgotangco> I'm all for a long overdue +1
<myriam_rs> thanks jsgotangco :)
<MikeB> myriam_rs: fantastic membership application : +1
<dholbach> having talked to myriam_rs at various conferences and occasions and having witnessed her teamwork in the swiss team, I'm happy to give a +1
<sabdfl> myriam_rs: very good wiki page!
<ogra> (to be honest, myriam_rs paied us all in swiss chocolate in advance, but shhh) ;)
<deadwill> :D
<myriam_rs> thanks, sabdfl
<sabdfl> +1 from me for myriam_rs
<sanguinarius> +1
<myriam_rs> thanks sabdfl, MikeB, dholbach :-)
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> congratulations myriam_rs :)
<myriam_rs> thansk, ogra, you shouldn't have told them ;-)
<ogra> yay
<elkbuntu> she paid in chocolate?! Where's mine?!
<atoponce> myriam_rs: congrats
<myriam_rs> thanks elmo
<ogra> \o/
<ogra> congrats
<dholbach> let's move on to WaVeR, as bryce is member already
* Nightrose hugs myriam_rs
<luisbg> congrats myriam_es
* myriam_rs bows
<WaVeR> Hi All, I'm Hassan El Jacifi from Switzerland. I'm sorry but actually I'm at work and occupied with some problem. You can find all information about me, what I want to do and what I do for Ubuntu at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HassanElJacifi
<myriam_rs> thanks a lot, friends, I feel great :-)
<jsgotangco> myriam_rs: apologies for the delay too
* ogra hugs myriam_rs 
<myriam_rs> cheers for WaVeR: he is the founder of the SwissTeam and has done a tremendous work!
<elkbuntu> he's founded two loco teams by the looks of his wikipage. that's excellent!
<myriam_rs> WaVeR is also active in the french and arab speaking community and kills a Visza a day ;-)
<jsgotangco> anyone here cheering for WaVeR
<dholbach> the comments on the wiki page look very very good
<jsgotangco> but seems to be very active
<myriam_rs> s/z/t
<jsgotangco> like what elkbuntu said
<jsgotangco> 2 loco teams
<myriam_rs> without WaVeR the SwissTeam would not stand where it is now
<WaVeR> thanks myriam_rs for your support. I try to look as much is possible my IRC window :o
<dholbach> any questions for WaVeR? I'm quite happy with the application as it is and all the positive feedback we heard
<WaVeR> Any questions for me ?
<MikeB> none here
<jsgotangco> WaVeR: no doubt about the Swiss team, how active is the moroccan team?
<fluoblack> sorry for interrupting but could you take my votes in consideration for later: I have to go soon and I'd like to support Zic and bapoumba
<sabdfl> WaVeR: would you say most of your contributions have been through advocacy and translation?
<theDtTvB2> Sorry to ask, but, what is the current topic?
<deadwill> theDtTvB2, WaVeR application
<WaVeR> Until now, I try to use one of internal mailing list (Morrocan linux usergroup) and There's already 2 Ubuntu days on Rabat
<theDtTvB2> Cool. Thanks, deadwill
<deadwill> theDtTvB2, np ;)
<WaVeR> I will try to have more people on Ubuntu-ma and create the official ML
<jsgotangco> cool
<sabdfl> is the Morrocan team an official LoCo team?
<WaVeR> sabdfl yes, I try to do my best with my times :o
<WaVeR> sabdfl until now no
<fluoblack> could anyone confirm my votes before i go?
<sabdfl> fluoblack: noted, it would help if you wrote your testimonial on their wiki pages
<elkbuntu> fluoblack, they will have been seen, dont worry
<atoponce> fluoblack: i have them recorded. i'll forward them on
<WaVeR> I need more people to propose the Moroccan team to be official
<fluoblack> alright thanks
<sabdfl> WaVeR: you clearly have good energy and good leadership
<sabdfl> in general i like your page, but it feels missing a little bit
<fluoblack> have fun, bye bye ;)
<sabdfl> cheers Fl
<sabdfl> WaVeR: how mature and strong is the swiss loco team, and how significant is your ongoing contribution there?
<sabdfl> anyone else want to comment further?
<myriam_rs> sabdfl: he is one of the most supportive and kind persons I came accross in Switzerland, a true pilar for Ubuntu :-)
<sabdfl> ok, thats very positive
<theDtTvB2> Well, looks like it's the time for me to go. It's almost 10pm now.
<theDtTvB2> See you later! ;)
<sabdfl> night theDtTvB2
<jsgotangco> I'm ok to give my vote
<sabdfl> alright, +1 from me for WaVeR, let's call for other votes, or move on if we don't have consensus
<jsgotangco> as it seems to be a solid contribution
<MikeB> +1 here
<dholbach> +1 from me
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> congratulations WaVeR
<myriam_rs> congratulations WaVeR!
<jsgotangco> i have to afk now
* myriam_rs hugs WaVeR
<dholbach> peanutb: are you around?
<m-onkey> grats WaVeR
<WaVeR> sorry :)
<jsgotangco> congratulations to everyone
<WaVeR> many thanks
<dholbach> jsgotangco: see you
<jsgotangco> thanks again
<myriam_rs> bye jsgotangco, and thanks again :-)
<dholbach> dshufelt: are you around? let's move on until peanutb might get back
<dshufelt> I don't think peanutb is around, I haven't been able to get in touch with him this morning.
<deadwill> * [peanutb]  is away (is time to be asleep)
<dholbach> ok
<dshufelt> yes dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanShufelt
<FunnyLookinHat> (short and sweet, hahaha)
<dshufelt> I don't think I have any supporters today (it's a holiday morning here)
<dshufelt> :)
<jsgotangco> oh right its labour day
<atoponce> dshufelt: you have a supporter here. :)
<dshufelt> cool thanks atoponce
<atoponce> i'd like to soo dshufelt approved based on his work in the oregon/washingon loco region
<atoponce> s/soo/show/
<dholbach> atoponce: what did you find most impressing and interesting in what Dan contributed to the loco teams?
<sabdfl> dshufelt: your wiki page seems a bit out of date?
<dshufelt> Yes, I know sorry sabdfl
<sabdfl> np, just makes it harder to be sure we're factoring everything in
<SvZ> Bye, See you next time.
* SvZ go to bed
<atoponce> dholbach: as a us teams mentor, i have seen him work hard to get tho loco community built in that area, and working with both oregon and washington
<elkbuntu> i've heard good things about dshufelt from the other US peoples
<dshufelt> It's been a busy summer though.  I've been helping kick off a few non-ubuntu specific teams too
<sabdfl> looks like a lot of really good advocacy and community contributions in Portland!
<atoponce> dshufelt is a good addition to the us teams mentoring project
<dshufelt> atoponce: wow, thanks.  What a great compliment.
<sabdfl> dshufelt: have things settled down with the PNW and Oregon teams?
<dholbach> dshufelt: you seem to be interested in helping out with bug squashing - did you have a chance to look into it already?
<dshufelt> The Oregon team and PNW team never had any problems.  :)
<dshufelt> I started both teams
<dholbach> wow, nice
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me, those teams have been very active by all accounts
<dshufelt> we've decided to keep PNW unofficial as an umbrella of collaboration
<MikeB> +1 for me
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<sabdfl> 4 down...
<dholbach> FunnyLookinHat: are you around?
<sabdfl> jsgotancgo stepped out?
<elkbuntu> he did, yes
<dholbach> sabdfl: yes
<FunnyLookinHat> Hey all!
<FunnyLookinHat> Hey Guys.  My name is David Overcash from Colorado (United States).  I've been using Ubuntu since Hoary and linux in general since '99.  I'm currently involved in leading the Colorado LoCo team and have focused most of my efforts in that entire process.  I've helped members present at the TIE Conference and spoken to a few smaller groups and organized events.
<sabdfl> i think that's quorum then
<sabdfl> congrats dshufelt
<atoponce> dshufelt: congrats
<FunnyLookinHat> The full summation of my contributions can be found at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidOvercash .  I was hoping Joey Stanford (Rinchen) would be here to be my cheering section, but unfortunately you will have to settle for his addition to my wiki page as a voucher for good work.  :)
<dshufelt> thanks everyone!
* elkbuntu cheers for FunnyLookinHat. long time loco project contributor general crazy dude
<FunnyLookinHat> (Again, Labor Day here in the US --- So no dice for Joey)
<FunnyLookinHat> lol
<MikeB> FunnyLookinHat: Purdue University, I don;t know about that (Go IU!)
<dthacker> I'll vouch for FunnyLookinHat's help in the us-channel with questions for NebraskaTeam
<FunnyLookinHat> Any questions?  I know you all are probably looking over the wiki page right now...
<MikeB> FunnyLookinHat: :)
<musashi> i'd cheer for you FunnyLookinHat but i'm still a nobody :)
<atoponce> here is another *great* addition to us teams. if approved, we would make one solid mentor in the project. he has my full 100% support
<FunnyLookinHat> MikeB, Nice!  IU had a nice backbone for my ISOs while I was there...
<elkbuntu> FunnyLookinHat, are you really as funny looking as your name and joey say you are? /me ducks
<dshufelt> I'll cheer for FunnyLookinHat
<atoponce> i've met the colorado team, and FunnyLookinHat in person. rock solid
<FunnyLookinHat> Sure am.  (See LP picture)   ; )
<FunnyLookinHat> Side Note - Sorry, my wiki is about a month out of date.
<dholbach> FunnyLookinHat: which ubuntu development team would you be interested in helping out? what kind of new outreach programme are you thinking about?
<FunnyLookinHat> dholbach, I would love to get involved with MOTU specifically.  I had tried previously but then was tapped for LoCo leadership and have focused my efforts there since then.
<dholbach> FunnyLookinHat: great to hear - if you plan to get involved there, let me know about how it goes
* musashi reminds FunnyLookinHat about local support project
<sabdfl> FunnyLookinHat: rinchen gave you a glowing testimonial
<FunnyLookinHat> Outreach-related would include large organized events such as Software Freedom Day and handing out CDs at the Democratic National Convention next summer...  Smaller side stuff includes me talking to groups and doing one-on-one teaching for Ubuntu
<atoponce> FunnyLookinHat: lots of solid testimonials on your wiki. nice!
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the back of CoLoCo leadership
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> +1 from me too - lots of positive feedback, excellent
<MikeB> +1 here, great wiki and testimonials
<dholbach> congratulations! :)
<sabdfl> all in
<FunnyLookinHat> Sweet thanks guys
<sabdfl> congrats, FunnyLookinHat
<dholbach> nealmcb: are you there?
<FunnyLookinHat> : )
<atoponce> FunnyLookinHat: congrats
<luisbg> congrats FunnyLookinHat
<dshufelt> Congratulations FunnyLookinHat
<sabdfl> musashi bordy luisbg takdir dendrobates mathiaz are you around?
<luisbg> sabdfl, I am
<musashi> i'm here
<takdir> yup
<dholbach> sabdfl: mathiaz already became MOTU, we can get him off the list
<luisbg> musashi goes first
<musashi> okay
<sabdfl> ok, in that order, musashi go ahead
<musashi> Hello. My name is Jim Hutchinson. I am an educator by trade (so not as techie as most of you) and was introduced to Linux and open source a couple years ago. I have come to believe that open source can play a prominent (perhaps dominant) role in education - all that is necessary is people who understand both the needs of schools and the potential of open source.
<dholbach> door bell, brb
<musashi> I have worked hard over the past couple years supporting open source and Ubuntu. I have helped to bring about a Linux based thin client lab at my school (in the process of becoming an edubuntu lab). I presented a session on teaching with open source at the Technology in Education conference (Copper Mtn, Co) this past summer, and I help organize and man an Ubuntu booth at the conference.
* norsetto cheers for musashi
<musashi> I also spend a fair amount of time helping on the Launchpad answer tracker. I attended the first ubucon in Boulder and I have also been an active member of the Colorado Loco team and was recently asked to become the education team lead.
<musashi> cheers on my wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JimHutchinson
<musashi> thanks norsetto
<sabdfl> musashi: very nice wiki page! great communication skills, your contribution in the community will be amplified as a result
<musashi> thanks sabdfl
<sabdfl> has there been much interaction between the education enthusiasts push and edubuntu?
<musashi> teaching background probably helps
<FunnyLookinHat> I will support musashi 's membership all the way.  His efforts for the Colorado team in organization for small events and get-togethers along with his persistence in showing Ubuntu to educators through his work and other opportunities is awesome!
<musashi> that is a new team. we are waiting for the mail list feature to help us get organized
<sabdfl> hmm... we *really* need to integrate Forums and LP so we can give karma for forums
<musashi> i'd second that
<luisbg> +1
<sabdfl> +2 for musashi from me on the back of Answers, Forums and education work. CC?
<musashi> thanks sabdfl that's praise
<sabdfl> musashi: did we meet at Fort Collins?
<MikeB> sabdfl: we are planning to talk to Matt and the LP guys about that
<musashi> yep
<musashi> you remember?
<sabdfl> certainly! was a fun chat
<musashi> i was a fish out of water
<dholbach> strong +1 from me :)
<sabdfl> nice to have you in this ocean :-)
<musashi> just trying not to drown
<musashi> thanks dholbach
<MikeB> +1 from me, great work
<musashi> thanks MikeB
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> rock on, musashi!
<ogra> +1 for giving musashi some water wings so he cant drown :)
<musashi> thanks all
<musashi> that would help
<dholbach> who's up next?
<musashi> watching all the power geeks here i though I was a gonner :)
<luisbg> bordy?
<musashi> thanks again all
<dholbach> does not seem to be around
<luisbg> then I think it's mine
<luisbg> is it?
<dholbach> yeah
<luisbg> congrats musashi btw
<luisbg> Hello all, I'm Luis de Bethencourt Guimer? (luisbg) from Spain. I'm the Ubuntu Studio Packagers Lead, since a year. Since UDS Sevilla I'm pushing for the Derivative Team to become a solid one. I also contribute with packaging (in the process of becoming a MOTU), in launchpad beta testing, squishing package bugs, helping the spanish ubuntu community, mutltimedia production forum section admin, etc...
<luisbg> more detailed info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LuisdeBethencourt
<luisbg> It seams that my advocates: _MMA_, TheMuso, joejaxx, crimsun... can't make it today
<luisbg> Any questions?
<dholbach> about luisbg _MMA_ wants to let us know:  "This is Cory, lead on the Ubuntu Studio project. I can't be here for luisbg's nomination but I wanted to leave a +1.
<dholbach>  Luis have been an integral part of Ubuntu Studio in leading our packaging team. He has managed to ensure that all of our packages are now in the official Ubuntu repos for this release. He has also shown himself to not only be technically competent but has a wonderful attitude as well."
<luisbg> I thank Cory (_MMA_) for that ;)
<dholbach> I also have talked to luisbg about the derivatives team in its planning phase, but was too busy to follow up on the various discussions - how are things looking there, luisbg?
<luisbg> dholbach, the mailing list has some traffic
<luisbg> a lot of disc building chatter and help from different small derivatives
<luisbg> so it is growing... not as much as I would like though
<dholbach> do you have any ideas on how to make it grow?
<luisbg> I will definitely prepare some specs for UDS Boston
<dholbach> that's great
<luisbg> once again the problem is structure and communication
<luisbg> I see that happening a lot in FLOSS projects/teams
<luisbg> but the mailing list I begged elmo to have in the ubuntu mailing lists is helping a lot with that
<luisbg> and thanks dholbach for your help in the deriv team
<luisbg> any further questions? anything about ubuntu studio?
<dholbach> I agree, we need more structure and better information exchange between the derivatives - I look forward to see you specs
<dholbach> with your ubuntu studio work, I've been quite happy
<luisbg> thanks
<dholbach> +1 from me, luisbg has put quite some effort into ubuntu in various ways - any more questions from anybody else?
<elmo> +1
<MikeB> none here +1
<luisbg> thanks elmo, sorry interrupting your reading in sevilla
<luisbg> thanks MikeB
<dholbach> sabdfl: any questions for luisbg?
<sabdfl> looking
<sabdfl> sorry, another conversation IRL
<sabdfl> luisbg: how is UbuntuStudio progressing?
<luisbg> in the packaging side we have all our packages now in universe
<sabdfl> superb
<luisbg> so we don't need a own repo like in feisty
<sabdfl> how many people are hacking on it?
<luisbg> we have to update a few from here to release but all looking good
<luisbg> we are working in the art and in the website right now
<luisbg> in the packaging team it is 3 of us
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me for luisbg
<dholbach> congratulations luisbg, takdir: are you there?
<takdir> yup
<luisbg> maybe more, 5 AFAIR
<takdir> ok
<takdir> I'am Muhammad Takdir, I live in Sinjai - Sulawesi Selatan - Indonesia.
<takdir> Start using ubuntu since 6.06 LTS.
<takdir> And now still in Edgy as desktop and server,
<takdir> but using Gutsy in chroot to build some package for Blankon2 - https://launchpad.net/blankon.
<takdir> I'm work in government and still make promotion to use
<takdir> Free and Open Source Software in government and school at Sinjai Regency.
<takdir> Active in ubuntu indonesian as member, in milis, irc, and planet.
<takdir> I have a plan to make community as sub Loco in Sinjai Regency
<takdir> to promote FOSS especially ubuntu and help those people migration on it.
<takdir> See my profile at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MuhammadTakdir
<takdir> any question ?
<sabdfl> takdir: what's Blankon2?
<dholbach> "BlankOn 2 is a distribution which is targetted for schools and small to medium enterprises in Indonesia." according to the LP page
<takdir> BlankOn 2 is a distribution which is targetted for schools and small to medium enterprises in Indonesia
<luisbg> sorry for using takdir's time but... thanks everybody! =)
<udienzMahyuddin> luisbg: BlankOn based in Ubuntu, in BlankOn we recompile Ubuntu distro and build up for indonesian people character
<dholbach> what kind of changes do you do for blankon?
<takdir> blankon for indonesian
<takdir> so everything .. for school, small business
<sabdfl> takdir: what sort of contribution have you made back to Ubuntu?
<takdir> and office
<dholbach> do I understand correctly: you need special changes to make ubuntu work for indonesian character sets?
<takdir> help people to migration and tranlator
<takdir> sori if my english bad
<sabdfl> dendrobates mathiaz deadwill udienzMahyuddin viridari marianom pls ack if you are here, we are nearly at you in the list
<deadwill> pong
<sabdfl> takdir: i see that you are an active user of ubuntu, but i don't see a substantial contribution back to ubuntu
<sabdfl> it is that con...
<sabdfl> oh
<sabdfl> let's move on
* beuno just got off the phone with marianom, and he should be online in 5'
<udienzMahyuddin> yes...
<sabdfl> deadwill: go ahead, let's try pick up the pace
<dholbach> sabdfl: we can drop mathiaz off the list, he's a MOTU now
<deadwill> right
<deadwill> Hi all, my name is William Lima (known as xxxxx1).
<deadwill> Actually I maintain ecryptfs-utils, opencryptoki, trousers and tpm-tools packages
<deadwill> that I did from scratch. I've also been helping people on #ubuntu-motu and triaging
<deadwill> bugs on LP. I did some fixes based on LP bugs too.
<deadwill> Also I have recently implemented a code on Psi (Jabber client) to recognize Ubuntu
<deadwill> as distribution using LSB. Today I am working on eclipse 3.3 package.
<deadwill> For details (e.g. bug works and packages), please consider a look at my Wiki:
<deadwill> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilliamLima
<Hobbsee> deadwill: hint:  might be useful to tell people in -motu that you've changed nicks too.
<marianom> sabdfl: ping
<sabdfl> marianom: we are nearly to you
<deadwill> Hobbsee, right. I'll send a mail to the list thx ;)
<marianom> ok
<lavaramano> hi
<davromaniak> hi
<dholbach> I've witnessed deadwill's progress in the motu team, I'm happy with what William did in the team, but in the MC we decided we'd give him some more weeks to work on packaging before he becomes member of the team
<dholbach> siretart as deadwill's mentor was quite with him too
<sabdfl> deadwill, i think we should defer membership till you are in MOTU too
<sabdfl> that's the best route in
<sabdfl> looks like you are doing good work
<siretart> yes, I can fully support his application. he has done a lot of good work in the past
<sabdfl> once MOTU is +1 on you, you will have both upload and membership
<dholbach> I agree with sabdfl, MOTU membership includes ubuntumembers membership and I'm sure you'll be member of MOTU quite soon
<sabdfl> any CC feel differently, based on the wiki or the LP?
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> deadwill: thanks for coming, and for your contributions to date, are you happy to keep working on MOTU membership?
<deadwill> right, thanks guys. I'll wait for my re-application. :)
<sabdfl> udienzMahyuddin: you're up
<udienzMahyuddin> yes...
<dholbach> rock on deadwill! :)
<udienzMahyuddin> hi i'm Mahyuddin Susanto come from Indonesia,
<norsetto> go deadwill go!
<udienzMahyuddin> student, 22 male, come from Jember, East java, Indonesia
<udienzMahyuddin> i'm active member of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-id
<udienzMahyuddin> and now, i'm concern in BlankOn project, https://launchpad.net/blankon
<deadwill> norsetto, :D
<udienzMahyuddin> BlankOn based in Ubuntu, BlankOn 2 is a distribution which is targetted for schools and small to medium enterprises in Indonesia
<udienzMahyuddin> in BlankOn we recompile Ubuntu distro and build up for indonesian people character. ex: remove some packages who give high process of system... b'cause indonesian people mostly poor family, so he/she can't value PC
<udienzMahyuddin> in Blankon i'm active member of BlankOn steering, (https://launchpad.net/~blankon-steering) Steering BlankOn is a team who steers the direction of BlankOn distro.
<sabdfl> udienzMahyuddin: nice to see lots of LP karma and usage
<udienzMahyuddin> sabdfl, thanks...
<udienzMahyuddin> and also i'm leader of BlankOn Documantation Team (https://launchpad.net/~blankon-doc)
<udienzMahyuddin> in Ubuntu Indonesia i'm also member of Distributor Ubuntu DVD Repository in Indonesia, 4 DVD just $5 plus services :)
<dholbach> udienzMahyuddin: you are member of a lot of teams, are you involved in all of them?
<udienzMahyuddin> Member of Team Ubuntu Indonesia (Moderated Team) https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-id, ubuntu-id Mailling List, Ubuntu-id Blog, ubuntu-id Forum, Ubuntu-id Planet...
<deadwill> i gotta go now. thanks all!
<udienzMahyuddin> dholback: yes... but i have work answered some the answer
<udienzMahyuddin> or submited bug...
<dholbach> I'm part of the desktop team, the bugsquad and the accessibility team too, also of the gnomemm team - are you in touch with those teams too?
<udienzMahyuddin> or make documentation...
<udienzMahyuddin> dholback: not yet, but i promise, i will give more contribution
<udienzMahyuddin> dholback: b'cause i'm still studied about the team..
<udienzMahyuddin> here is my Wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Udienz
<udienzMahyuddin> see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Udienz/WordpressUbuntuTheme
<udienzMahyuddin> enaugh...
<udienzMahyuddin> enough... sorry
<udienzMahyuddin> any question???
<udienzMahyuddin> still wait.....
<elkbuntu> udienzMahyuddin, you're in the Indonesian LoCo, correct?
<udienzMahyuddin> yes..
<elkbuntu> I remember you from the project meetings, but i dont see it in your memberships list, is all :)
<dholbach> who in the ubuntu community do you work most with? are you planning to get blankon packages into ubuntu?
<dholbach> what kind of changes do you make in blankon?
<udienzMahyuddin> dholbach, yes iplanned into ubuntu distro
<udienzMahyuddin> in BlankOn i was make Documentation about Ubuntu
<udienzMahyuddin> taken froum ubuntuguide
<udienzMahyuddin> http://wiki.ubuntu-id.org/PanduanUbuntu
<sabdfl> udienzMahyuddin: looking over LP and your wiki, it seems that your main contribution *to Ubuntu* has been translations?
<sabdfl> is that the case?
<udienzMahyuddin> yes...
<udienzMahyuddin> absolutly.. yes
<udienzMahyuddin> many people in indonesia very difficult to transalate English to Indonesian
<udienzMahyuddin> and this is main problem in indonesia
<takdir> :)
<sabdfl> is there a well organised translation team in Indonesia?
<dholbach> are these the translations you made: https://translations.launchpad.net/~udienz ?
<sabdfl> who leads that team?
<udienzMahyuddin> sabdfl: the leader is this time is imtheface, founded by ammar
<udienzMahyuddin> sabdfl: the leader in this time is imtheface, founded by ammar
<sabdfl> ok, i would like to hear from imtheface about the level of your contribution, if he's happy, then i would +1
<udienzMahyuddin> dholbach: yes
* dholbach pinged imtheface on #ubuntu-motu
<udienzMahyuddin> sabdfl: okay...
<sabdfl> udienzMahyuddin: it looks basically good, but a bit borderline looking at LP
<crevette> hello
* dholbach will need to step out in a bit
<sabdfl> viridari is not here
* MikeB need to leave in 15 minutes
<sabdfl> marianom: you are up
<udienzMahyuddin> sabdfl: i know...
<marianom> ok
<sabdfl> udienzMahyuddin: ask him to email the CC
<marianom> Hi I'm Mariano Mara from Argentina. 29 years old
<marianom> This is my wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Marplatense
<sabdfl> welcome marianom
<marianom> hi
<marianom> My main focus the last year was working with Argentina LoCo Team where I'm reponsible to check everyone's following the CoC and the rules of the forums, mailing list, etc. We got a lot of threads, posts, questions every day. It's a very active group.
<marianom> I've been working with the LoCo Team since it was born and it's was a great experience to see it growing all this year.
<marianom> I too work with the local site contact form where I receive the questions of everyone who does not know about our communication channels and want to try Ubuntu.
<marianom> I also do a little work on Launchpad: some translations and answers.
<dholbach> marianom: if I read your wiki page correctly, you moderate every single post to the forum, is that right?
<marianom> that's right. all of them
<beuno> I'd like to express my strong support for marianom's memberiship. He has been a key member in the Argentina LoCo (200+ members, w00t!) before it even started, he moderates every official means of communication with extreme care and friendlyness according to the CoC. Out begginers support network is entirely based on his day to day work answering every single email, forum thread, or comment on IRC. That's a LOT of daily traffic. He has succesfully
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the back of a very sustained contribution to forums, answers, irc
* beuno waves at sabdfl, MikeB and dholbach
<DJ-Lethal> marianom: is a great member of Argentina LoCo
<dholbach> marianom: why? wouldn't you say that some forum members have proved themselves?
<dholbach> hi beuno
<quasar> go marianom!
<marianom> sorry dholbach, I didn't understand your question
<L1pe> go marianom!
<dholbach> marianom: I would think that in some cases where members of the forum have proved themselves to be good contributors etc, that you could auto-moderate their posts to the forum
<MikeB> +1 here, great forum work
<marianom> dholbach: I know the members who I can trust
<dholbach> ah ok, so they get dealt with automatically?
<marianom> but we have lot of new people
<dholbach> ah ok
* lavaramano go marianom! 
<marianom> and they're the ones with the questions
<dholbach> I'm happy with a +1 - great work and good feedback
<marianom> so I rather check everyone :)
<sabdfl> 3 so far, elmo?
<marianom> let me be clear, I don't edit every post. I just read them and talk when it's neccesary
<sabdfl> bapoumba: you're up next, pls be ready with your intro
* bapoumba here :)
<sabdfl> davromaniak, Zic, bigon, pkern, paulliu, Flannel: we'll get to you shortly!
<bigon> yep I'm here
<Zic> ready
<radhios> go marianom
<davromaniak> ok, no problem, I'm prepared
<paulliu> pong..
<pkern> pong
<Overclock_Orange> i can say what marianom is a great member of Argentina LoCo team :)
<PriceChild> I have to run, but BIG cheer for bapoumba, great work on the moderator team at ubuntuforums.org for the past months :)
* takdir got troble with connection .. ping me
<bapoumba> Thanks Pricey :)
<sabdfl> elmo: ping
<sabdfl> he's ask, lets move on, he'll comment shortly
<sabdfl> bapoumba: roll on!
<JonathanMM> +1, bapoumba really deserves to be Ubuntu Member
<bapoumba> Hello everyone! Glad to be here :) My wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bapoumba
<bapoumba> I'm a French biologist in Academia (Universit de Caen, France) and a mother of 3 young boys
<bapoumba> I'm Using Ubuntu since Warty. All of my teaching presentations are on OOo (running Gutsy now).
<bapoumba> I have been giving around install CDs to my students, set up a local group to promote
<bapoumba> open source applications on my University free-access computers, and will set up this school year moodle
<bapoumba> classes to train second year students basic desktop skills (OOo, Thunderbird, Firefox,
<bapoumba> ftp protocols, jabber protocols, basic GIMP and CLI)
<bapoumba> I'm a Former moderator on French Ubuntu Forums (joined in January 2005) and current moderator on ubuntuforums
<bapoumba> Active memberships: ubuntu-women, approved member of the Ubuntu French Translators on Launchpad (recently renewed)
<bapoumba> member of the French team translating Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter to Lettre Hebdomadaire Ubuntu and owner of the LHU Launchpad team
<MikeB> bapoumba is a fantastic moderator on the Ubuntu Forums, a true star on the team
<elmo> (+1, sorry)
<sabdfl> bapoumba: are you a forums staff member?
<pleia2> bapoumba is another one of our big contributors to Ubuntu Women, she's been our contact through to the UWN and has been an administrator on our forums for quite some time now - keeping forum threads with meeting schedules and other announcements updated for us (I'm not much a forum person, so I'm very very happy to have her!)
<bapoumba> sabdfl, yep
<effraie> she did a great job on french forums too
<MikeB> sabdfl: yes
<Mamarok> Cheers for bapoumba: she is a long time contributor to Ubuntu-Women, the French speaking community and Ubuntuforums!
<beuno> marianom, welcome!
* beuno cheers for bapoumba and her help with the UWN
<bapoumba> hey beuno
<elkbuntu> bapoumba is everywhere! this is long overdue ;)
<effraie> and she is leading (?) the french translation team for the UWN, very good job there too
<bapoumba> I contribute to UWN too ;)
<Stemp> bapoumba did a great job on the french forums and do a great job on the ubuntu-fr jabber room
<bapoumba> I'm aslo owner of a small French-speaking jabber room (for fun stuff only ^^)
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the back of forums staff contribution
<bapoumba> owner with stemp
<Zic> +1 for bapoumba and her jabber room :)
<MikeB> +1
<JonathanMM> +1
<The_Marauder> +1
<effraie> +100 for bapoumba here
<sanguinarius> +1
<Mamarok> yeah, bapoumba rocks!
<bapoumba> hehe :)
<Mamarok> Congratulations, bapoumba :-)
<bapoumba> many thanks everyone !
<MikeB> I look forward to her continue leadership in Ubuntu
<davromaniak> +1 for bapoumba great work, :)
<bapoumba> sure MikeB :)
<ThibG> +1 for bapoumba, for owning ubuntu-fr jabber room
<sabdfl> bapoumba: you've definitely made a good impression round here :-)
<Progs> bapoumba: are you at Ubuntu Women ?
<sabdfl> we still need to hear from dholbach, elmo
<bapoumba> Progs, yes
<dholbach> +1 for bapoumba, GREAT feedback
<bapoumba> thanks sabdfl
* bapoumba cheers everyone
<elmo> +1
* elkbuntu hugs bapoumba
* pleia2 hugs bapoumba 
<pleia2> congrats!! :D
<atoponce> bapoumba: congrats!
* bapoumba hugs elkbuntu back
* bapoumba hugs pleia2 too ^^
<bapoumba> thanks atoponce
<MikeB> congrats bapoumba
* Stemp embrasse bapoumba (Champagne)
<effraie> :p
* arthur- fais un bisou  effraie 
<sanguinarius> XD
* dholbach needs to leave now
<dholbach> congratulations everybody
* bapoumba make big POP sound with the Champagne bottle
<JonathanMM> She's a very good moderator in ubuntu's channel
<bapoumba> many thanks, dholbach
<EurkY_irssi> oh ca parle francais :)
<sabdfl> ok, davromaniak, i think you are up now
<davromaniak> ok
<sanguinarius> oui
<davromaniak> Hello everyone, I am a 21 year old humain being, I'm from France.
<davromaniak> I'm sysadmin in the 2nd ranked french hosting company.
<sabdfl> elmo, MikeB, it's just us so let's machine through as fast as possible
<davromaniak> I'm active in ubuntu-fr since March 2006  (helping in the forum and in IRC), and in ubuntu (LP, packaging, few translations) since about September 2006.
<davromaniak> I held two conferences (1 about presenting ubuntu, and 1 about packaging).
<sabdfl> i think 3 CC is sufficient
<davromaniak> I participate in exhibitions (fte de l'humanit and solutions linux in France) and install parties(for dapper, edgy and feisty).
<davromaniak> I'm also the maintainer and translater of qtpfsgui.
<MikeB> ok
<davromaniak> I've packaged and I maintain encadre-image, youtranslate, kitsune, qtpfsgui.
<davromaniak> I wish continue packaging and becoming a MOTU in 3-4 years.
<davromaniak> my wiki page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Davromaniak
<sanguinarius> +1 for you
<toutouff> davromaniak should really become an  ubuntu member, first because of his great involment in ubuntu french parties, and his packaging skills. HE is someone very involves in the french community !
<Zic> +1 for davromaniak : his repository (depomaniak) and his packages in Universe, and conferences !
<effraie> davromaniak (and Zic too) is a great contributor to french community, and an important part of our ubuntu-parties.
<Daviey> davromaniak: Wish to become a MOTU 3-4 *years* ?
<davromaniak> yes Daviey It's not a main goal for me
<Daviey> oh ok
<olive> +1 davromaniak for the job made in ubuntu parties of Paris
<Progs> bapoumba: do you know Anice aka Cinaee ?
<effraie> months seems more reliable :)
<ThibG> I know davromaniak for his depomaniak and his conference at the Feisty party.
<bapoumba> Progs, nope
<Mithrandir> davromaniak: are you working on getting libpfstools and pfscalibration into the archive as well?
<effraie> it where SO great :)
<Progs> bapoumba: she is at Ubuntu Women too
<bapoumba> Progs, same nick ?
<effraie> s/where/would be/
<davromaniak> Mithrandir, yes, I schedule to package those programs for hardy heron
<Progs> bapoumba: her nick is Cinaee
<MikeB> davromaniak look like a fine candiate to me, any questions
<sabdfl> davromaniak: where would you say has been your strongest contribution to Ubuntu?
<effraie> +1 for davromaniak here, for his contributions too french community: parties, classroom, planet...
<davromaniak> my strongest contribution, it's conferences and ubuntu parties
<sanguinarius> yes +1 for davromaniak
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me
<Progs> -1
<ThibG> Oh, I have forgotten it, classroom, that's good work too
<MikeB> I only have a few more minute before I have to go
<Zic> +1 for parties, davromaniak and me have a lot of work to prepare paris party
<bapoumba> Progs, I'm maily in the mailing list or the forums, not much in IRC. So that's may be why I've never met with her :)
<arthur-> Progs: funny...
<elmo> Progs: ?
<atoponce> it would be nice if all the '+1' came just from CC
<Hobbsee> atoponce: there's always a +m :P
<MikeB> +1 from me
<atoponce> Hobbsee: :)
<elmo> +1
<MikeB> sabdfl?
<Hobbsee> MikeB: he already +1'd
<MikeB> :)
<MikeB> doh
<davromaniak> I would like to thank all the people who gave me a +1, and others also of being here and support ubuntu, :)
<MikeB> davromaniak: congrats
<sanguinarius> congratulations
<Zic> congrats davromaniak \o/
<skateinmars> congrats davromaniak
<effraie> davromaniak: \o/
* toutouff hugs davromaniak 
<elmo> Zic: you're up?
<MikeB> I need to to leave, have a family event to goto
<Zic> elmo: yes
* pkern coughs
<Zic> elmo: Can I start ?
<Hobbsee> someone chain MikeB to his chair.
<elmo> sabdfl: want to continue without Mike?
<MikeB> Hobbsee: my wife is giving me the evil eye
<atoponce> MikeB: tell her just 2 more hours. :)
<Hobbsee> heh :)
<Zic> MikeB: or only five minutes for me ? :] 
* Zic hides
<MikeB> sorry
<MikeB> later all, I promise we will have the next member soon, and hopefully new membership processes defined
<sanguinarius> ok MikeB  bye bye
<pkern> Pity.
<atoponce> what's the status of the rest of the meeting?
<sabdfl> hi
<sabdfl> sorry, got pulled afk
<sabdfl> elmo and i just spoke, we'll keep going, but 3 mins yes/no decisions
<sabdfl> if it looks great, we'll +1 quickly, otherwise defer
<sabdfl> ok?
<pkern> Fine with me.
<sabdfl> Zic: go!
<Hobbsee> this is where the advantage comes in having a nick starting with "a" or something.
<Zic> Hi, I'm Jonathan Marsaud, alias Zic ( https://launchpad.net/~zic & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JonathanMarsaud ), french student living around Paris. I use GNU/Linux since the Mandrake 8, and I follow Ubuntu since the Warty version but I really use it since the Breezy Badger. I use Ubuntu in all my desktop/laptop computers and Ubuntu Server in my server.
<Zic> My primary involvement in the Ubuntu community is to promote the spirit of Ubuntu in Paris. During "Les Feistyvits" (Ubuntu Feisty Party) for example, I did a conference about "Why use GNU/Linux instead of my proprietary Operatating System ?".
<Zic> I am one of the main organizers for Ubuntu events in Paris (for more information, see my wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JonathanMarsaud ).
<Zic> I also am moderator/helper of #ubuntu-fr channel and member of our Planet ( http://planet.ubuntu-fr.org/ with my french blog : http://www.ff-irc.net/ ).
<Zic> I wrote some tutorials in our wiki, http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/
<Zic> My main plans for the future is : promoting Ubuntu in France more and more during the upcoming events ; continue to learn C/C++ language to contribute to some GNOME projects ; fix problems in my packages get them uploaded in Universe for Hardy Heron, and continue to package for Ubuntu/Debian.
<Zic> I have an other project for the Ubuntu Gutsy Party (3rd & 4th November) : try to organize Ubuntu Party in several countries and regions in France,streaming live all videos on ubuntu-party.org
<Zic> end :)
<Zic> Any questions ?
<sabdfl> Zic: you spend a lot of time in forums and IRC?
<Zic> sabdfl: yes, I'm always here
<effraie> as i said previously, Zic is a great contributor in french community
<Zic> (in #ubuntu-fr- chanel)
<sanguinarius> yes  I confirm
<Zic> #ubuntu-fr-*, sorry
<sabdfl> lots of good testimonials, i'm just trying to establish where you have put most of your efforts into improving ubuntu and the community
<The_Marauder> He's alway in irc channel ubuntu-fr
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me
<Zic> sabdfl: in Ubuntu Party :)
<JonathanMM> +1, Zic really deserves to be Ubuntu Member
<elmo> +1
<skateinmars>  as an irc moderator and a french planet moderator I'd like to cheer for Zic who is really active and willing to help.
<olive> Yes, Zic also did great job at last ubuntu parties in Paris (preparation and conference) !
<ThibG> +1 In addition to many contributions (documentation, planet, etc.), Zic made a great conference at the feisty party
<sabdfl> done! congrats Zic
<Zic> thanks everyone !
<olive> +1 zic
<sabdfl> bigon: go!
* skateinmars hugs Zic 
<Zic> champagne ? :)
* davromaniak hugs Zic 
<effraie> \o/
<sabdfl> bigon: what's the one-liner status of telepathy these days?
<sabdfl> and is it rocking in Ubuntu?
<cassidy> As an upstream Telepathy developer, I totally supports bigon's application. He's doing a really good job to keep Telepathy updated and in a good shape in Ubuntu (and Debian)
<davromaniak> no Zic, you're too young, :)
<cassidy> sabdfl: of course it does :)
<Zic> davromaniak: :D
<Hobbsee> cassidy: are there any more updates for it and gutsy, before release?
<sanguinarius> goodbye ;)
* Hobbsee saw a few go though
<cassidy> Hobbsee: yeah, Empathy
<Hobbsee> er, through
<sabdfl> bigon: around?
<bigon> sabdfl: telepathy packages are good and almost uptodate with debian
<cassidy> Hobbsee: and maybe gabble, didn't check if latest release was pushed
<bigon> (and upstream)
<Hobbsee> cassidy: as in, do you plan to release a new upstream at all before gutsy release?
<Hobbsee> oh, right, you do of empathy.  gotcha
<sabdfl> bigon: are you on track to become MOTU too?
<bigon> sabdfl: yep
<cassidy> Hobbsee: of Empathy? Could be doable if needed. The maintainer is very Ubuntu friendly :)
<bigon> dou you want my little prepared description?
<Hobbsee> cassidy: we're in a freeze, we're tyring *not* to get new upstream versions, unless they're good to have :P
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me on the back of bug work
<Hobbsee> </ motu-uvf hijack>
<elmo> +1
<sabdfl> welcome, bigon
<sabdfl> pkern: nice LP pic!
<sabdfl> you're up :-)
* ogra cheers for pkern
<pkern> My name is Philipp Kern and I am currently living in Karlsruhe, Germany, studying Computer Science. I am a Debian developer since 2005. My pet package in Debian and Ubuntu is Gobby, a collaborative editor. I tried to keep my packages in shape in Ubuntu since I "joined" LP in late 2005 and I am also involved in the Utnubu backmerging project.
<pkern> ewing other people's packages. More information is available on my wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilippKern).
<pkern> I want to expand my Ubuntu involvement with this member application and I intend to get a MOTU in the near future. Having been a Debian AM, I am used to revi
<popey> I've got my pom-poms out, doing star-jumps on the touchline for pkern. Without him we'd have no gobby. I filed bugs against gobby and they were promptly dealt with.
<Hobbsee> pkern: you're also pkl?
<elmo> Hobbsee: no
<pkern> sabdfl: Yep, I am not sleeping currently, heh. (:
<Hobbsee> elmo: right, so i'm going crazy.
<bigon> sabdfl: thanks :)
<elmo> Hobbsee: pkl == phil lougher, kernel guy
<Hobbsee> thanks
<Hobbsee> elmo: that's what i thought....
<Hobbsee> elmo: apparently i'm not skilled at reading at 2.30am
<ogra> pkern is always very quick and helpful with any gobby issues i brought to him, we even get ubuntu specific patches from him if we need and gobby finally made it on the edubuntu CD into teh default install now thanks to him
<sabdfl> pkern: i'm very happy to see good debian-ubuntu interaction, thanks for setting such a great example
<ogra> its a pleasure to work with him
<pkern> sabdfl: I'm pleased to help.
* sbalneav cheers for pkern
* ogra would +1 if he could :)
<sabdfl> +1 from me, and I hope your progess into MOTU goes smoothly
<Hobbsee> +1 from what i've seen in -motu
<pkern> ogra, popey, sbalneav: Thanks. (:
<elmo> +1
<sabdfl> also, would like your feedback on PPA's, now if you're in LP-beta-testers or when we open it up
<pkern> Thank you very much. What a relief, I was pretty nervous. (=
<ogra> congrats pkern :)
<popey> congrats!
<sabdfl> paulliu: go!
<paulliu> Hello, I'm Ying-Chun Liu from Taiwan, Republic of China.
<paulliu> I'm a free software programmer.
<paulliu> I'm also doing packaging.
<paulliu> I'm an advocator, too.
<paulliu> I'm dealing with non-free software replacements by the factor of popcon.
<paulliu> My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulLiu
<paulliu> Sorry for my bad English.
<paulliu> If you can't understand my English, please ask me to clarify.
<paulliu> If you have any questions, please ask me to answer.
<pkern> sabdfl: I intend to publish backports of Gobby in there. ;)
<sbalneav> sabdfl: We're already using ppa in edubuntu for doco updates to the handbook before string freeze.
<ogra> sabdfl, sbalneav uses PPA extensively to make daily edubuntu-docs packages available :)
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> Fools seldom differ :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting
<Mamarok> sabdfl: I'd love to give you feedback on PPA, but I still struggle with packaging, will report when I manage to do so :-)
<paulliu> I'm working for Debian for a long time. Currently in NM process, waiting AM assignment...:)
<sabdfl> Mamarok: should be a good way to learn, playing with your PPA
<sabdfl> :-)
<Mamarok> exactly :-)
<sabdfl> paulliu: where would you say your biggest contribution to Ubuntu has been made?
<paulliu> I directly fix bugs in Debian and sync to Ubuntu..
<paulliu> Non-free replacements...
<paulliu> I fight against every major non-free softwares...
<paulliu> I'm both the upstream and downstream packager if there's no packagers..
<sabdfl> paulliu: it looks to me like your best route to membership is via MOTU
<sabdfl> elmo?
<paulliu> Not now
<paulliu> Because I still not met the situation I must use MOTU
<paulliu> If I can fix the bugs before big freeze
<paulliu> I don't need the MOTU
<elmo> paulliu: I'm confused - is there any particular reason you don't want to join MOTU?
<paulliu> No..
<paulliu> I'll join if it stop syncs from Debian and there's great changes in my packages
<paulliu> But I still not met that situation..
<sabdfl> paulliu: membership is a reflection of a contribution to Ubuntu, and right now it seems your contribution has been in the form of some packaging work, and coordination with debian
<sabdfl> is that right?
<Hobbsee> as in, you shove the stuff to debian, and it syncs across to ubuntu, so why put things directly into ubuntu?
<paulliu> Yes...
<paulliu> Hobbsee, I can't understand it??
<paulliu> I read all the bugs from Ubuntu users' report because the user base is large
<paulliu> For free replacements, I need large testers..
<Hobbsee> paulliu: i see what you mean
<paulliu> Because free replacements are usually based on large quantity of example files..
<paulliu> We can't read the non-free one, or objdump the non-free one...
<paulliu> For clean-room purpose...
<sabdfl> that's good, and hopefully we will improve the flow of bug comments between LP and debbugs soon
<sabdfl> but it's not quite the same as an active contribution to ubuntu
<sabdfl> if you want to be an ubuntu member we would welcome you if you are actively contributing to ubuntu!
<sabdfl> i do enjoy visiting taiwan so hope to meet up and we can chat more about it
<sabdfl> ok, next
<paulliu> I'm contributing to Ubuntu..
<sabdfl> paulliu: where, mostly? it's not clear from your wiki or lp pages
<paulliu> Through Debian..
<sabdfl> very true!
<sabdfl> and much appreciated!
<sabdfl> but some DD's also find ways to contribute directly to Ubuntu, like pkern earlier
<sabdfl> if you want to be an ubuntu member, and help approve appointments to the Ubuntu community council, then you need to be an active part of Ubuntu directly
<sabdfl> ok, Flannel, you're up!
<Flannel> Hi all, my name is Neal Bussett (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NealBussett), and I'm an Electrical Engineering student at San Diego State Univ. in California.
<pkern> Like filing sync requests and fixing bugs directly in Ubuntu, yeah. I would almost have commented on that.
<Flannel> I've been with Ubuntu since Hoary, and have been contributing for about two years now on IRC.  I've also done my fair share of bug reports, and other smaller contributions.
<Flannel> I am the current contact/leader of Ubuntu-California, and played a large role in reactivating it a few months ago.  I look forward to continuing my work with my LoCo team and I also intend to become a package maintainer at some point.
<atoponce> Flannel has taken the lead of the CA team when disaster struck. he has shown excellent leadership and humility. since taking the reigns as CA loco leader, CA exploded in activity  overnight. when he and the CA team become approved, i would *love* to use him as a mentor to the US Teams Mentoring Project
<atoponce> i pledge my full support for his membership
<sabdfl> Flannel: +1 from me for your contributions to Cali LoCo team
* elkbuntu cheers for flannel
<sabdfl> ok, i have to step AFK. thanks all for a good meeting! elmo will review and ack +1 / -1 shortly :-)
<elkbuntu> thanks sabdfl :)
<sabdfl> very much looking forward to having the streamlined process
<nixternal> haha
<elkbuntu> i think we all are
<atoponce> definitely
<nixternal> congrats everyone so far!
<sabdfl> i think it will work very well - easier for everyone to have weekly meets in their own timezone!
<jrib> I see Flannel always helping new users on irc as well.  He helped me help two people just the other day :)
<elmo> +1
<elkbuntu> darn miracle we got through the whole list O.o
<elkbuntu> (minus absentees of course)
* nixternal wishes j1mc was around so he could have gotten his long overdue +1
* beuno got in late on the streamlining bit and offers his help to jono and elkbuntu
<atoponce> how many +1 needed for approval? just 2- sabdfl and elmo?
<sabdfl> atoponce: yes, in this case
<sabdfl> well done Flannel
<atoponce> well then, Flannel: congrats!
<sabdfl> cheers all!
<pleia2> yay, congrats Flannel!
<Flannel> thanks all
<jrib> Flannel: congrats
<johnc4510> Flannel: w00t
<Belutz> ah i guess i'm too late for the meeting
<elkbuntu> Belutz, you missed it by about a minute
<nixternal> ya, you only had 4 hours in which to make it :p
<atoponce> s/a minute/4 hours/ :)
<Belutz> elkbuntu, yup, i was having a meeting offline with ubuntu-id team
<Belutz> i was suppose to give some testimonial for udienzMahyuddin and takdir
<elkbuntu> Belutz, ah, what unfortunate timing :-/
<Belutz> :)
<Belutz> how is everybody?
<Belutz> elkbuntu, yup, they should remind me earlier
<Belutz> anyway my membership is running out soon, how do i reapply?
<Riddell> you'll get an e-mail inviting you to press a button
<Belutz> Riddell, ah ok
* peanutb feels stupid for forgetting the meeting
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 04 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-04
<kraut> moin
<Zic> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 04 Sep 15:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting
<pkern> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 07:20:35 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 7 hours 39 minutes
<ziroday> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 08:10:14 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 6 hours 49 minutes
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 05 Sep 01:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 10:00: MOTU Team | 09 Sep 03:00: Xubuntu Developers | 11 Sep 05:00: Screencast Team | 12 Sep 01:00: Server Team meeting
<pkern> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 12:32:47 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 2 hours 27 minutes
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 04 Sep 11:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 20:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 15:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 11:00: Server Team meeting
<sanguinarius> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 13:34:53 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 1 hour 25 minutes
<sanguinarius> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 13:51:02 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 1 hour 8 minutes
<pkern> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 14:10:37 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 49 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting
<zul> morning
<sanguinarius_> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 14:53:43 - Current meeting: Kernel Team
<zul> umm..
<BenC> I'm trying to retrieve the rest of the team :)
<zul> ok
<Hobbsee> BenC: offer coffee
<BenC> might take beer
<Hobbsee> BenC: or beer.  beer is good too, it seems.
<elkbuntu> add pizza to the offer and you're likely to have a winner
<Hobbsee> mmm...pizza...
<Hobbsee> BAD ELKBUNTU!
<BenC> Well I know rtg isn't going to be here
<elkbuntu> caffeinated beer (surely america has this, right?) and pizza
* ogra heard pizza ?
<BenC> kyle left ottowa for cambridge last night
<BenC> so just waiting on amitk
<BenC> I, nm, he's here :)
<amitk> Sorry..i am already here
<elkbuntu> i win!
<amitk> a few minutes late
<BenC> Ok, welcome to the kernel team meeting
<BenC> Meeting info (past and present) is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<BenC> We'll start of with team status
<BenC> pkl_: You're first up in reverse alpha order
<BenC> pkl_: What's your current work load right now?
<pkl_> working on some kernel flavours for Gutsy.
<pkl_> some bug work and that's more or less been it.
<BenC> pkl_: Do you know the status of ntfs-write-support for userspace side?
<pkl_> No, I believe it should be in place now.
<pkl_> but that's a guess.
<BenC> Ok, can you check up on it, just to make sure someone isn't secretly blocking on some unknown issue
<pkl_> Yeah, I'll check with Colin,
<BenC> ok, thanks
<BenC> what's your expected work for the next couple of weeks, other than the normal bugs+fixes?
<pkl_> Um, bug fixing is probably going to be the main focus.
<pkl_> I anticipate putting AUFS into the kernel, and testing Unionfs 2.1 (that Kyle added) with liveCDS
<BenC> yeah...the unionfs seems to be high prio
<amitk> pkl_: what is AUFS used for?
<pkl_> AUFS = Alternative Unionfs File System.
<pkl_> It is basically a re-implemented Unionfs by a third-party, which is commonly believed not to have as many bugs or issues than Unionfs
<BenC> is AUFS something you just want to add for people who want to use it...not for livecd this late in the cycle, right?
<pkl_> It would probably be useful to have in the Gutsy kernel, especially as a fall back for people having problems with Unionfs.
<pkl_> It's probably too risky for the livecd now :)
<BenC> ok...so the unionfs 2.1 is in lum now, expected to be included and used with this next upload?
<pkl_> I think so, yes.
<BenC> then yeah, testing livecd with that needs to be done asap
<pkl_> Kyle was having some problems with the apparmor patches and Unionfs.  But that should be resolved.
<BenC> sounds like you've got plenty to work on :)
<pkl_> hopefully...
<BenC> amitk: so how's things been going in the mobile team?
<amitk> mainly changes to the build system to decouple UME patches from core Gutsy
<BenC> are all the patches for lpia/ume included now?
<amitk> Far from it
<BenC> what's left to include
<amitk> Let me rephrase it - All that is available is included now. But there are many things that are WIP e.g. the new upstream MMC stack to support SD/SDIO, ACPI thermal optimisations, peripheral drivers, etc.
<BenC> Ah, ok
<amitk> Last couple of weeks, after changing the build system, I have committed the thermal optimisation patches to UME. All a GPL driver for Marvell SD8686 SDIO WLAN chip was committed to LUM
<BenC> earlier you had mentioned getting lpia arch/flavour building using the same patches, moving it to a custom-binary target
<amitk> s/All/also
<amitk> that is a next step yes - Moving LPIA to use the same configuration for UME custom builds
<BenC> either we need to rename one of those flavours to match the other, or add another capability to the build system to use the ume custom-binary patches so we don't have duplicated in debian/binary-custom.d/{ume,lpia}/patchset/*
<amitk> BenC: agreed. I would prefer dropping UME in favour of LPIA, but since we don't yet have a complete set of packages for LPIA, I will hold back until that happens
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Sep 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team
<BenC> amitk: ok...does ubuntu-mobile expect for ume flavour to become obsolete by gutsy release?
<BenC> if so, perhaps it isn't too important, knowing we'll just be ditching it in the end
<amitk> BenC: yes, with a caveat - LPIA should be equivalent to current UME
<BenC> userspace wise, or kernel wise?
<amitk> package repository-wise
<BenC> ok, that's what I figured
<BenC> Ok...anything new and exciting in the power side for general desktop users?
<BenC> I imagine you haven't had much time to look at that
<amitk> not yet. However there isn't much on the UME side this week. So I hope to go over the powertop recommendations to make sure Gutsy already support them.
<BenC> excellent, I've been looking forward to that
<amitk> that is all from my side
<BenC> everything's moving along it seems
<BenC> amitk: thanks
<BenC> Now we need to go over the canonical-qa bugs real quick...see if we can get some resolution on them
<Mithrandir> amitk: hopefully, you'll be able to drop UME in a week or two.
<BenC> link is on the agenda
<BenC> Mithrandir: ah, good to know, thanks
<amitk> Mithrandir: \o/
<BenC> one less build on i386 is always a plus
<Mithrandir> that's pending us having working lpia images by then, but it's on my plan for next week, so.
<BenC> Damn, I'm not sure which of the bugs are hidden from public view...
<BenC> bug #130804
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130804 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[Ubuntu Tribe3]  Cannot install by LiveCD (weybridge)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130804
<BenC> That one looks like a failure to detect IDE on the weybridge
<BenC> amitk: this reminds me, I have to send you a weybridge...
<BenC> ACTION: Ben to test livecd on weybridge
<amitk> BenC: if that would spare my laptop from compiling our kernels, it would be much appreciated :)
<BenC> amitk: I'll get it out this week :)
<BenC> bug #131626
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131626 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Sleep wakes up but screen is blank" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131626
<BenC> that seems to be a nv bug
<BenC> wonder if nvidia proprietary driver fixes it
<BenC> bug #131661
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131661 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Hibernate button on keyboard doesn't work on System76 Z62F" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131661
<BenC> that one doesn't really sound like a kernel bug
<pkern> At least fglrx suspend-to-RAM breaks with SLUB allocator activated. Which is why I am here and waiting for open discussion. ;o) Maybe that could be switched back to SLAB at least until ATI fixes that issue.
<BenC> pkern: doubtful, slub fixes more things :)
<BenC> ATI just needs to fix their driver
<pkern> BenC: It was the only option I switched to make it work again with 2.6.22.
<pkern> BenC: Of course, but in the meantime we break suspend-to-RAM with fglrx for all users of Gutsy.
<BenC> pkern: but that's not a fault of ours
<BenC> slub fixed way too many things to make fglrx an exception for switching
<BenC> but we can definitely look into
<pkern> BenC: What did it fix? I thought it's only a speed advantage.
<BenC> I wont say there's no chance of us switching back...just that it's very unlikely
<BenC> pkern: turning it on exposed so many bugs that were hard to find with slab
<BenC> slub has better error checking
<BenC> and the speedup and reduced fragmentation is a huge advantage
<BenC> we should talk with some folks at AMD/ATI to see about fixing this properly, instead of disabling slub just to accomodate it
<pkern> BenC: I guess there can't be another flavour, right? There was a thread on LKML about it some time ago and all agree that it's ATI's fault, but so far there was no response. (It's listed in their inofficial bug tracker, but then I don't know who reads it.)
<BenC> we don't do separate flavours just to work around a broken proprietary driver
<BenC> sets a bad precedent :)
<pkern> It would be really nice to see this fixed in fglrx, of course. But I don't know if suspend-to-RAM should be broken if SLUB mainly helps finding bugs easier. (Which I agree with for a development version.)
<BenC> ACTION: Ben to get in touch with AMD/ATI to see about resolving the fglrx+slub+hibernate bug
<pkern> BenC: Thanks (:
<BenC> any other open items?
<zul> yep just sponsorship for uds
<BenC> pkern: thanks for bringing it up, I'll definitely see about getting it resolved
<zul> since i have an expired passport ;)
<BenC> zul: we're in the process of looking at who will be sponsored
<zul> ok
<BenC> kernel related sponsors have been submitted, but it's upper management that has final say
<zul> other than that none from me
<pkern> BenC: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/121653/comments/15
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121653 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[gutsy]  Suspend to Ram does not work on Z61m" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<BenC> pkern: thanks
<BenC> Speaking of UDS, this is a good time to remind everyone that now's when you should start submitting blueprints for UDS
<BenC> not the day UDS starts :)
<BenC> So if there are any features you would like to see for gutsy+1, get to crackin
<BenC> And I think that ends the meeting
<BenC> Thanks everyone, and have a good week
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Sep 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting
<sanguinarius> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 18:01:56 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 17 hours 58 minutes
<nealmcb> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2007, 22:33:43 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 13 hours 26 minutes
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-05
<sanguinarius> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 05 2007, 03:46:45 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 8 hours 13 minutes
<dthacker> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 05 2007, 10:11:26 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 hour 48 minutes
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<RichEd> ogra ... you ready to go with technical report ?
* pips1 is lurking
* pips1 will only be able to listen in
<ogra> sorry i didnt prepare anything (i have about 10h to fix bug 121547 and am under heavy pressure atm)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building process hangs at 50% on Tribe1 CD" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<RichEd> pips1: fine ... it will mainly be a short tech report ... oliver is in debug mode ... and I have another appointment soon
<ogra> i'll try to do it on the fly
<ogra> next milestone is beta release
<ogra> (sept 27th=
<ogra> )
<ogra> stuff to be solved is the artwork (i think we got that, needs packaging but thats trivial)
<ogra> bug 121547
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building process hangs at 50% on Tribe1 CD" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<ogra> and some smaller stuff (i.e. non critical bugs)
<ogra> ltspfs needs some updates sbalneav already prepared (a security fix)
<ogra> most of that stuff can happen during the next weeks, only the installer bug is high prio on my desk atm (its very very tricky and more so its very time consuming to test changes)
<ogra> scott is very busy on the doc front atm and uses his PPA for daily debs with the changes
<RichEd> hi karl
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, hi mate
<Kamping_Kaiser> just noticed the meeting call :$
<RichEd> ogra: is that it from you ?
<ogra> right
<ogra> beyond that we have new artwork :)
<ogra> please comment on the wikipage as usual
<RichEd> let me get the link
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
<ogra> first ! :)
<RichEd> looks like we are going with Edubuntu_global-sept307b.png as default
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> so make your comments now if you want changes :)
<ogra> unless someone heavily objects
<RichEd> also let us know which of the others should go onto the CD as optional choices
<ogra> the wiredubuntu one would make a beautiful usplash artwork ... but i wont have time to take care for that
<ogra> that would be up to kwwii
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, my only question with that is the english on the image
<RichEd> ogra: what needs to be done to get that right ? can anyone else help ?
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: let me look again ...
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, better than german or italian :)
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, what would you suggest? latin ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, latin has class ;)
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: not sure ... I can ask the artist if you are interested
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: sure ... but is it relevant for modern kids ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, just a thought
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: I'll ask where she got the text from ...
<pips1> well, there is already lots of latin text, if you noticed :-)
<ogra> make a comment on the page :)
<RichEd> the olde style writing is very nice methinks
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i object to having <random culture> forced on me... i'm sure others do as well.
* ogra doesnt mind 4 english words 
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, ok
<pips1> the only english text is "cell membrane" and "cell wall"
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, but latin might be better, suggest it :)
<RichEd> should we offer wallpapers in different languages ?
<RichEd> :)
<ogra> ugh
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<ogra> thats possible with svg though
<pips1> and there is a greek symbol too.. pi
<Kamping_Kaiser> localise it on the fly
<ogra> you can embed translations
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, dont laugh, its a cool concept :)
<pips1> the whole artwork really says western scientific tradition.. :-)
<ogra> oh, as you all might have noticed, there wont be a tribe 6 CD
<ogra> and no freeze is going on
<pips1> renaissance
<ogra> beyond that we work *as if* there was a tribe 6 CD
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, ii'm only half joking
<ogra> (thats why i am so focused on the milestoned tribe6 bug)
<pips1> Kamping_Kaiser: all art is rooted in culture
<pips1> Kamping_Kaiser: are you suggesting we should have a 100% culturally free artwork?
<Kamping_Kaiser> pips1, no.
<pips1> :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm aware of art+cultures links.
<Kamping_Kaiser> its just there are some i like to be involve with/exposed to more then others
<pips1> I'm sure you are, just pulling your leg
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure this is culture, but i'm wearing a powercalbe as a decoration ;)
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: well from your side ... why not try to find someone who can do us some maori art ?
<pips1> ogra: what did you mean by "no freeze is going on"?
* pips1 tries to imagine Kamping_Kaiser with power cable
<ogra> pips1, we can upload to the archive all the time
<ogra> its not frozen for iso building
<ogra> that makes bugfixing a lot easier
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, not sure, i certainly dont have any links in that area
<pips1> ogra: ic, thanks for explanation
<pips1> ogra: good luck with the bug fixing!
<pips1> I got to go...
<RichEd> ogra: any more from you ?
<ogra> if nobody has additional questions i'll go back to fighting with debconf
<RichEd> issues or questions anyone ?
<RichEd> okay ... going once
<Kamping_Kaiser> cant think of any
<RichEd> okay ... going twice
<RichEd> thats a wrap then
<RichEd> thanks
<ogra> :)
<ogra> that was a quick one :)
<RichEd> not many people here ... hence less discussion
<pkern> @schedule Europe/Berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 06 Sep 15:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Sep 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<highvolt1ge> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Sep 13:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-06
<kraut> moin
<Lure_> @schedule ljubljana
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 06 Sep 15:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board
<Riddell> morning
<iwj> Hello.
<mvo> hello
<Keybuk> morning
<Mithrandir> good morning
<Keybuk> actually, what _do_ you say when it's exactly noon?
<Riddell> wait a second and say good afternoon
<iwj> `Morning' because you haven't had lunch yet.
<Mithrandir> well, it's morning here, since it's still an hour before my core hours. :-P
<Mithrandir> (yes, I'll stop whining now)
<Keybuk> just waiting for Ken and Mirco
<MacSlow> Greetings!
<Riddell> ken's coming
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> so, welcome everybody!
<Keybuk> and especially welcome aboard to Mirco, who joined us this week
<Keybuk> he'll be hacking on various UI elements and Bling for us
<MacSlow> tata :)
* mvo welcomes mirco
<kwwii> hi mirco, welcome
<MacSlow> in case somebody does not know...
* MacSlow == Mirco
<Keybuk> so, first up on the agenda; picking a suitable day and time for this meeting each week
<Mithrandir> MacSlow: speaking of bling, I might want to borrow your brain a bit for thoughts on multitouch, at some point.  Afaik you've thought about it a bit?
<MacSlow> Mithrandir, it's hard not to think about it
<Mithrandir> it'd be really nice to have for mobile.
<MacSlow> Mithrandir, two things for this are needed...
<Mithrandir> a) spare time for Mirco, b) beer for Mirco? ;-)
<MacSlow> 1.) a display/screen that's able to distinguish between multiple concurrent "touches"
<Riddell> thursday fits in nicely with activity report practice
<MacSlow> 2.) MPX in Xorg
<kwwii> Riddell: +1
<mvo> Riddell++
<MacSlow> Mithrandir, btw... I don't run well on beer... mango-juice works better on me
<kwwii> since most (all?) of us are in europe sometime before 5UTC would be good
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: Thursday's fine.
<Keybuk> kwwii: the average timezone is Europe/Berlin
<kwwii> so let's pick some time in the afternoon on Thursday
<Keybuk> my weekly phone call with the other distro team leads is on Thursday
<Keybuk> there is some benefit to having this meeting before that phone call, since I would be able to raise issues with the other leads quickly
<Keybuk> but there is also benefit of having it after, since I would be able to feed down issues raised
<Keybuk> :-)
<Riddell> Mithrandir seems to start the latest at 1200UTC, so how about then?
* mvo does not mind anything between 12:00utc and 16:00utc
<Mithrandir> yeah, I'm on roughly Brazilian time on Thursdays.
* Keybuk hands Mithrandir a Caipirinha
<MacSlow> ola
<Keybuk> I'm happy with 1200 UTC on Thursdays
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: nice way to start the day. :-)
<MacSlow> 1200 utc is fine
<Keybuk> I assume that we'd like to keep it at the same "local" time, so adjust the UTC for daylight savings?
<Mithrandir> sounds fine
<kwwii> sounds good
<Keybuk> and the next meeting question is whether you think the meeting should be public or private?
<Keybuk> in the next cycle, we'll be doing a lot of "big development work" - and using the meeting to co-ordinate between the multiple people working on a spec
<MacSlow> public if possible I'd say
<Keybuk> I think that there's a lot of benefit to doing that in public
<Keybuk> but I also understand that the meeting is useful to ask company procedural stuff as well
<kwwii> I think that anything that needs to be discussed privately can be done in an email and private irc just as well
<Mithrandir> agreed, public is better, we can have private meetings in between or switch to 50/50 if we end up having lots of private things coming up
<MacSlow> I second kwwii thought there
<Keybuk> we're usually on #d anyway, so private questions can always be asked in the meeting, and it can continue there after the public discussion has concluded
<Keybuk> other thoughts/suggestions/opinions?
<iwj> I think having a private meeting occasionally is worthwhile.
<iwj> It means you can bring something up without having to specially make a fuss about it, iyswim.
<Keybuk> that's also true; though if they're regularly scheduled, what happens when nobody has anything private to say?
<MacSlow> just skip it then?
<Mithrandir> then we can all drink caiphirinias.
<iwj> If you can keep it short in that case, I don't see too much of a problem.
<kwwii> how about checking the status reports and if there are enough private things in it to justify having a private meeting we do so
<iwj> kwwii: That would defeat the purpose I mentioned above.
<cjwatson> my team is trying out 50/50 FWIW
<Keybuk> cjwatson: how are you scheduling that?
<cjwatson> simple alternation
<kwwii> iwj: if you don't put it in a status report and don't want to bring it up in irc or email how in the world are going to make your point known?
<kwwii> honestly, it does not matter to me though
<iwj> It's much easier to do something less formally in IRC, if it's a bit sensitive.
<kwwii> right, ok...let's just plan every second meeting to be private then
<iwj> I don't really have an opinion about how often it has to be.
<MacSlow> I
<Keybuk> the other option is to have the meeting that's on the same day as the public entire distro team meeting be a private one for our team
<iwj> Oh, that would be very sensible.
<MacSlow>  'm still to fresh to have enough experience to build an opionion based on that
<kwwii> Keybuk: +1
<Keybuk> mvo, Mithrandir, Riddell ?
<mvo> that is fine with me
<Riddell> sounds good
<Keybuk> ok, let's try that for a few weeks and see if it's the right balance
<MacSlow> alright
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: that'd work for me.
<Keybuk> next up; you should have all seen the Team Mission?  It's up on the Canonical wiki now, and is the same text as that I mailed out to you all
<Keybuk> if not, have a quick read over it now :)
<Keybuk> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuDesktopTeam
<Keybuk> Most simply put, we'll be doing development for the desktop on top of the platform that cjwatson's team provide
<Keybuk> obviously there's some blurring and overlap there, because Colin's team will also do development and features
<Keybuk> and we'll also be maintaining some packages, etc.
<Keybuk> we'll use the existing Desktop Team as our point of collaboration, so we work with seb, daniel, etc. -- I've already asked those of you who will be directly doing desktop work to join that team on LP, the mailing list and IRC channel
<MacSlow> like it or not (term-wise) it's about the "digital life-style management" on the free desktop imo, what we're aiming for there...
* mvo is already part of that team
<Keybuk> (a few of you will be doing more varied work, or carrying on with the projects you're already on - so that doesn't apply to you if you don't want it to)
<kwwii> erm, I should probably join that then
<Keybuk> kwwii: yes :p
<MacSlow> and therefore I would add video (home-videos, screencasts, youtube-like stuff) too
<Mithrandir> I think I'll skip joining for now; no point in having more irc channels that I can ignore. :-P
<Keybuk> MacSlow: the "areas of responsibility" thing is expected to expand somewhat; that's everything that we agreed for the short term
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: *nods*
<kwwii> is there going to be an official mobile team?
<Keybuk> kwwii: positions are open for a lead and further developers for that team
<kwwii> Keybuk: cool, I assume that I will stil be doing artwork for it then?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, ok and of course potential projects to evaluate for the section "video" are a little scarce still on the free desktop... at least the kind of software we're looking for
<Keybuk> s/lead/project manager/
<Keybuk> kwwii: I still expect we'll receive lots of requests from other teams to help out, given the expertise we'll be building
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm not sure to what extent the project manager position is still open, as it's been taken off the web site.
<Keybuk> (don't be surprised if RichEd asks if you want a ClassMate <g>)
<kwwii> ;-)
<Keybuk> don't be afraid to direct those requests to me, since if they officially want your time, they need my permission! :)
* mvo would rather take one of the upcoming mobile devices
<Keybuk> and I would like lots of your time as well <g>
<Mithrandir> mvo: so far, their form factor is ATX. :-P
<mvo> heh :)
<Mithrandir> so while interesting to work with, they're not exactly portable.
<Keybuk> so we'll be interacting a lot with Colin's team
<MacSlow> kwwii, RichEd already tired that with me :)
<Keybuk> I'd also like us to be interacting a lot more with upstream
<mvo> ++
<Keybuk> we're going to be doing a fair amount of development on top of GNOME, and it's a good idea to make sure that upstream are aware of what we're developing
<Keybuk> and an even better idea to make them full participants in the planning, so we develop it right
<Keybuk> for many patches, it would be ideal if when Seb updates to the next GNOME point release, our patches that were in the package can be dropped because they were also in upstream svn
<MacSlow> right on for upstream-focus!
<Keybuk> (for some bits, like theming work, "look and feel", etc. this obviously won't be true; but the core/code changes we make to support our theming and look&feel should be upstreamable)
<Keybuk> any questions?
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> finally on the general team note, we'll be hiring again
<Keybuk> I have three approved positions, the first of which should go onto the website today if I can wander over and speak to Jo
<Mithrandir> they are the ones you sent out in the email you sent a week or so ago?
<Keybuk> yup
<Keybuk> so please, if you know of useful people, forward them on to me
<Keybuk> (remember, there's a referral bonus now <g>)
<Keybuk> that's it from me
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Keybuk> no, ok then, thanks very much
<mvo> thanks everybody
<kwwii> thanks all
<MacSlow> thx
<MacSlow> Keybuk, when will all new/open positions be on the website?
<MacSlow> to take a look and see if one knows people to recommend?
<Keybuk> MacSlow: the first should go on today
<Keybuk> I'll forward you the mail which has the descriptions
<Keybuk> the others will be over the next few weeks or couple of months
<MacSlow> ok
<Keybuk> MacSlow: you have the mail already, Subject "Team Missions"
* MacSlow reads through it again
* MacSlow grabs some food
<dthacker> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 06 2007, 12:25:46 - Next meeting: Kubuntu in 34 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Hobbsee> good evening all.
<nixternal> howdy
<nixternal> heh, I posted in MOTU when I meant to post here
<Riddell> hi
<Jucato> heh :)
<Jucato> hi! :)
<popey> moo!
<Hobbsee> no, cows outside.
<Hobbsee> has everyone actually read the emails from corey?
<Jucato> heh I even gave a +1 when I'm not supposed to :)
<Riddell> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:55. The chair is Riddell.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
* Lure is Luka Renko
<Riddell> [TOPIC]  using MootBot
<MootBot> New Topic:  using MootBot
<jsgotangco> wow that is neat
<nixternal> Lets just vote the +1's and get it over with :)
<Jucato> a bot secretary. how convenient :)
<kwwii> +1 for MootBot
<Riddell> seems to work
<nixternal> haha
<Hobbsee> yes, so now we might get some timely meeting logs
<Riddell> [TOPIC]  membership of Corey Cohen
<MootBot> New Topic:  membership of Corey Cohen
* Hobbsee is the green alien.
<Riddell> anyone else here for membership?
<nixternal> Riddell: it works reasonably well...I noticed the dev meetings have been using them
<Lure> Riddell: any link for Corey?
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Coreymon77
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2007-August/001889.html
<nixternal> hrmm, doesn't seem that coreymon is around
<nixternal> must be in school
<Riddell> our first e-mail membership application
<Hobbsee> nixternal: no, he's at school
<Jucato> nixternal: his application for membership is special :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: it was either him around, or me around, i'm afraid.
<Hobbsee> just due to timezoning issues
<Jucato> discussion by e-mail, voting by IRC :)
<nixternal> it is a first, and hopefully a last :)  I would rather question the applicants on the spot and make them sweat a little :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: heh :)
<Jucato> didn't you already do that? heheh
<Hobbsee> we can just bring up a whole lot of questions, and decline him, and email the questions to him :P
<nixternal> ya, but he had time to research the questions...nothing like putting someone on the spot...you guys do it to me all the time :)
<nixternal> Hobbsee: hahahah, that would be so mean
* Lure is afk
<Riddell> "I feel by helping translate Ubuntu to both Canadian English" hmm, I'm not convinced at the usefulness of that translation
* Jucato is so tempted to !away > Lure :)
<Hobbsee> hmm.  i wish i'd read this earlier
<Hobbsee> Ju'
<Riddell> however Hebrew is interesting
<Hobbsee> Jucato: it's justified - else we'd call on him tovote
<Hobbsee> maybe he doesnt awnt to vote...
<kwwii> on the translations alone I am not convinced...anyone know how much support he really does?
<nixternal> Riddell: hahah, me either...I remember someone in a CC meeting that had that listed as a strong point, and one of the CC members (probably mako) had a little fun with it
<kwwii> anyone can add an "eh" to the end of a sentence :p
<Hobbsee> kwwii: i trust tonyyarusso's judgement, and such.
<Hobbsee> Jucato: what have you seen?
<ScottK> nixternal: Did he ever help you out with the guy you were looking for Hebrew help with?
<Jucato> He's very active in #kubuntu, that's for sure. Although I don't know how much during the time I was gone
<nixternal> ScottK: actually he did come to think of it...so did Riddell though :)
<Riddell> "Support from other members:" was there something below that?
<kwwii> I think that his support work in #kubuntu is more important than the 23 translations he has proveded so far
<nixternal> hahaha kwwii, dis is kubuntu ey
<Jucato> +1 kwwii
<nixternal> I am with kwwii as well
<nixternal> I wish the IRC stats thing was up and running...that would tell us how much he talks in #kubuntu
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs$ grep coreymon freenode_#kubuntu.log  | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 207
<nixternal> but I will take tonyyarusso's and Jucato's word on his help though...2 strong advocates
<Jucato> hehe :)
<nixternal> oh, that isn't good Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs$ grep jucato freenode_#kubuntu.log  | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 37
<fdoving> nixternal: http://ubuntu.lnix.net/irc/kubuntu.html - for what it's worth.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs$ grep hobbsee freenode_#kubuntu.log  | wc -l
<Jucato> lol! that's worse!
<Hobbsee> 187
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs$ grep nixternal freenode_#kubuntu.log  | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 124
<Hobbsee> that's...surprising.
<Jucato> omg?!
<fdoving> rode@vs1:~/irclogs/freenode$ grep -c coreymon77 \#kubuntu.log
<fdoving> 9568
<Hobbsee> that's only since i rm'd .kde by accident, so lost all my logs
<Hobbsee> ie, june 18
<nixternal> Hobbsee: ahh
<Jucato> hah I rm'ed my /home :)
<nixternal> nixternal@3LockBox:~/irclogs/Freenode$ grep coreymon77 \#kubuntu.log |wc -l
<nixternal> 2240
<nixternal> that is 2 years worth of log right there
<jsgotangco> chatty guy i see :)
<Riddell> seems like an active person
<ScottK> Could be people just talk about him a lot ;-)
<nixternal> nixternal@3LockBox:~/irclogs/Freenode$ grep nixternal \#kubuntu.log |wc -l
<nixternal> 2163
<nixternal> he has me beat :)
<Jucato> :P
<nixternal> which is a hard one to believe..I was a chatty ol' fool 2 years ago
<nixternal> nixternal@3LockBox:~/irclogs/Freenode$ grep Jucato \#kubuntu.log |wc -l
<nixternal> 38543
* Hobbsee would like to ask some more questions, and will do so by email
<Jucato> omg!
<nixternal> Jucato: I hope you enjoyed your break....you needed a life :p
<Hobbsee> but +1 in the meantime.
<Jucato> hahahah
<nixternal> +1 from me as well
<Hobbsee> based on what people like tonyyarusso have said
<kwwii> +1 from me going on other peoples opinions
<Riddell> Hobbsee: where did he say that?
<nixternal> Riddell: I think there is a way to get the MootBot to take our votes into consideration
<Hobbsee> Riddell: initial mail.  it's at the bottom, gpg signed.
<Riddell> [VOTE] 
<MootBot> Please vote on: .
<Hobbsee> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Hobbsee. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 2
<kwwii> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kwwii. 3 for, 0 against. Count is now 3
<Hobbsee> ah, there we go
<Hobbsee> -25
<Jucato> hahah
<nixternal> hahaha
<Hobbsee> awww....
<Riddell> +42
<nixternal> it only takes 1's
<Riddell> clever that
<nixternal> -1
<kwwii> +111111111
<Riddell> +1 then
<MootBot> +1 received from Riddell. 4 for, 0 against. Count is now 4
<Jucato> I wonder if it takes non-council votes too? :)
<jsgotangco> +1
<nixternal> hrmm, maybe it only takes your vote one time..that is slick
<MootBot> +1 received from jsgotangco. 5 for, 0 against. Count is now 5
<jsgotangco> ooopss
<nixternal> haha
<jsgotangco> it does work
<Jucato> hahah
<Riddell> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. Total: 5
* ScottK said +1 via e-mail a while ago.
<nixternal> jsgotangco: well he just got a +1 from a CC member :)
<Riddell> well, I think that's decided
<nixternal> ScottK: did you send the email tot he list? I only seen Jucato and tonyyarusso
<Riddell> any other memberships?
<nixternal> looks to be it
<ScottK> I thought I did.  Maybe it was via IRC when he was on #kubuntu-devel.  It's been a while.
* Hobbsee wants to become a member
<nixternal> -1
<nixternal> ;p
<Hobbsee> to whom?
<nixternal> you
<Jucato> hahah
<Hobbsee> oh, excellent!
<Riddell> [TOPIC]  Anyone want to take care of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
<MootBot> New Topic:  Anyone want to take care of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
<Riddell> jono wants team reports
<nixternal> jono wants to be the next rock god as well :)
<Hobbsee> sa in, who we are, what we do, or as in, how well they work?
<Riddell> I should point out that I added the team description for Kubuntu before whoever added the one for "Desktop Team"
<Riddell> I plan to embolden our "rock" in order to one up them again
<nixternal> haha
<Hobbsee> rename ours to TheBetterDesktopTeam...
<nixternal> ooh, good one
<Riddell> Hobbsee: it's a monthly report, so it's about what's happened for the last month
<Riddell> I think there will be a lot of overlap with Tribe pages
<Hobbsee> Riddell: oh drat.  i'm on too many teams, then.
<nixternal> does anyone want to step up on volunteer on this one?
<nixternal> otherwise Hobbsee will voluntell someone to do it :)
<Hobbsee> yes, i voluntell nixternal.
<nixternal> no no
<Riddell> Hobbsee: ++ team name
<nixternal> hehe
<Hobbsee> incidently, for our support stuff, i registered #kubuntu+1, in case we ever end up using it
<nixternal> maybe this would be a good job for coreymon77 to take on?
<Riddell> thanks
<Riddell> nixternal: ooh, interesting :)
<Jucato> hahah
<Jucato> since he's absent, he can't decline :)
<Hobbsee> you just want to get out fo the meeting logs and such
<Riddell> nixternal: want to ask if he's be interested?
<nixternal> sure
<Riddell> [AGREED]  nixternal to talk to coreymon77 about doing monthly Team report
<MootBot> AGREED received:  nixternal to talk to coreymon77 about doing monthly Team report
<nixternal> of course we would help out by inserting bullets into our monthly report
<Riddell> of course
<nixternal> man, that bot just sets it right in stone doesn't it :)
<Riddell> [TOPIC]  Things to do before Beta
<MootBot> New Topic:  Things to do before Beta
<nixternal> BUGS!
<Riddell> what needs fixed before beta?
<Jucato> strigi? :)
<Riddell> that adept description bug is on my TODO for today
<nixternal> the env, share, and home directories in ~/
<Hobbsee> yes, bugs.
<Hobbsee> env/share are fixed, thanks to ryancka, it seems
<ScottK> The python-kde3 out of memory bug.
<Riddell> nixternal: that should be fixed
<nixternal> are there any current show stoppers?
<Hobbsee> i'm sure i missed a letter, there
<Hobbsee> there are some i'd like others input on
<Riddell> ScottK: mm, yes, I spent some time on that but ran out of ideas, mvo is looking at it
<Hobbsee> but basically, upstream doesnt seem to be fixing kde3 bugs much
<Riddell> but it's may well be a mystery to him too
<ScottK> Riddell: Great.  At least it's being worked on.
<fdoving> strigi index size is a issue.. to me anyway.
<Jucato> Hobbsee: env and share replaced by home/ ?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: there will be a 3.5.8 at some point, but I've no idea when
<Riddell> we should make take branch patches
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i think there are some in debian, too.  but yes
<Riddell> I should say that I'm disappearing on saturday for two weeks
<nixternal> Riddell: last rumor I heard was about the time we release Gutsy
<ScottK> As a fall back, we should be thinking about capturing the error and falling back to command line update-manager so at least upgrades won't fail.
<nixternal> Riddell: what?!?!
<nixternal> 2 weeks?
<Riddell> a guy has to have a holiday sometime :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: you cant be actually taking holidays, can you?
<nixternal> Hobbsee: did you give Riddell permission for that 2 week break?
<Hobbsee> nixternal: no.
<nixternal> Riddell: you can't go! Hobbsee didn't approve it
<Hobbsee> Riddell: have you handed back to pitti by that point?
<Hobbsee> RM?
<Riddell> I hope so, since dapper .2 is likely out during that time
<nixternal> lovely
* Lure is really sorry, but I have to run to phone conf 
<Riddell> actually one of those weeks I'll be at a spanish speaking conference so I'll be around with spare time
<nixternal> Lure: tis ok, we won't dock your pay this time :)
<Hobbsee> Lure: got a better time, btw?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, i thought you were landed with that too.
<Hobbsee> oh well, as long as it doesnt fall to me, without me knowing about it :P
<kwwii> hey guys! we could have a coup and take over while he is gone
<Hobbsee> ooo...
<Riddell> Hobbsee: it got moved, so I can't be
<Hobbsee> or just hijack Riddell's keyboard, and so vote however.
<nixternal> Hobbsee: that means you better be around for main uploads then :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ah right
* Hobbsee is attempting to step back, a little, and find out what this "having a life is"
<nixternal> oh no you aren't!
<nixternal> Hobbsee: kubuntu is our life :)
<Jucato> so true..
<nixternal> Hobbsee: think about, Riddell gone for 2 weeks, you attempting to find out what having a life is, that leaves the rebels to run Kubuntu...doesn't that frighten you?
<Riddell> so, three weeks to fix all the bugs
<nixternal> wow
<Hobbsee> nixternal: you cant upload to main.    you're limited
<Riddell> I think it can happen
<nixternal> Hobbsee: true
<nixternal> but I know people who can :p
<Riddell> [TOPIC]  Handling KDE 4 Beta 2 release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Handling KDE 4 Beta 2 release
<ScottK> All he needs is one Ubuntu core-dev who thinks, "Bah, it's just Kubuntu, I'll upload it."
<Riddell> that's mostly obsolete, I was worried it would be delated until I was away
<Hobbsee> ScottK: sure ,but i can shoot him.
<Riddell> delayed
<Riddell> but it's being released today, so that shouldn't be a problem
<nixternal> groovy
<Hobbsee> you're back on the 24th, or so?
<Riddell> 22nd I fly back
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> cool
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> heh, it says we only have a 30 min meeting, it seems.
<fdoving> do we include any powertop-knotify patches?
<Riddell> same ones as KDE includes
<fdoving> specifically: http://www.linuxpowertop.org/patches/qtmcop-notifications-on-demand.patch ?
<fdoving> http://vir.homelinux.org/blog/index.php?url=archives/41-PowerTOP-and-aRts.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://vir.homelinux.org/blog/index.php?url=archives/41-PowerTOP-and-aRts.html
<fdoving> those didn't make 3.5.7, did they?
<Riddell> fdoving: that should be upstream in arts longsince
<Riddell> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> hi Riddell, everyone
<Riddell> I think we're about done
<Riddell> Tonio_ can upload stuff while I'm away
<Hobbsee> Jucato: had a question in -devel
<Riddell> any other issues?
* Tonio_ is at work, in a meeting, cannot really speak this time.... just reading
<Jucato> forgot to ask about strigi earlier.. is it really ready for gutsy considering most seem to have problems with it?
<Hobbsee> yes.  i make a motion that kubuntu should take over the world.
<nixternal> string freeze in less than a week, so hopefully I should have the 2nd to last docs package ready to go
<Riddell> Jucato: I'd like to take a decision on that after beta
<fdoving> Riddell: in the comments he says it's commited to the 1.5 arts branch, but there have been no release since 3.5.7, did we pull upstream packages for this?
<Jucato> ok. 3 weeks to try to fix it. :)
<Riddell> fdoving: it's included in our arts package in debian/patches
<fdoving> Riddell: ok, nice :)
<Riddell> that seems to be it
<Riddell> thanks all, happy hacking, don't break anything while I'm away
<Riddell> Tonio_ can upload everything
<Hobbsee> oh, can anyone propose a better meeting time?
<nixternal> haha
<Jucato> take care and have fun Riddell! :)
<kwwii> Riddell: have a nice holiday
<Hobbsee> this seems to work for most people, but not Lure and Tonio_
<Hobbsee> oh, and apologies to all for the late meeting notice
<nixternal> Hobbsee: I can create a wiki page where people can mark their best times for availability, and then we can pull time from that?
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i'm reasonably aware of people's availabilities - and it's really just blocked on me.
<Hobbsee> which is why i set the meeting times.
<nixternal> ok
<Hobbsee> because the good times for you guys are when i'm asleep
<nixternal> well I am open to pretty much anytime as long as I am not in class..and even then, most of the times I have access to the net so I can still participate :)
* Jucato is good anytime of the day
<Jucato> I'll adjust/wake up when needed :)
<nixternal> ya, since you never sleep
<Jucato> hehehe
<nixternal> meeting adjourned?
<Jucato> hehe seems like it :)
<nixternal> shouldn't you tell MootBot that it is over?
<nixternal> #endmeeting
<kwwii> only Riddell can do that
<Hobbsee> Riddell: has to call it
<Jucato> heheh
<kwwii> since he started it
<nixternal> ya
<Riddell> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:31.
<Tonio_> sorry for missing that one, wasn't possible for me to be there....
<toutouff> @now paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: September 06 2007, 17:57:02 - Next meeting: MOTU Team in 1 day
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o popey]  by ChanServ
<popey> eek
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o popey]  by ChanServ
<PriceChild> popey, don't be scared :)
<popey> :)
* popey grabs his security blanket, sticks his thumb in his mouth and curls up in the corner
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-07
<macogw> !ask schedule
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ask schedule - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<macogw> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Sep 00:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu
<macogw> when's the next community council meeting?  it's not on the calendar... (at least not in the 2-weeks-ish range...)
<Palintheus> there was one monday, so I imagine not for about a month
<macogw> oh ok the wiki says every two weeks.  how far in advance are they planned?
* Palintheus shrugs
<macogw> er, that's not wiki, that's regular ubuntu.com website
<macogw> ok
<Palintheus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<macogw> i'll just try to remember to watch the wiki for when a new agenda page goes up
<Palintheus> I suggest if your going for membership to add your name, there are people still on the list from june
<macogw> oh i just assumed it hadn't been edited since monday
<Palintheus> nope, look at the bottom of the page quite a few were approved monday
<macogw> oh i see
<macogw> ok
<Palintheus> and prepare to wait, the last meeting pushed 4 hrs and memberships are last :)
<sanguinarius> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 07 2007, 03:00:19 - Next meeting: MOTU Team in 20 hours 59 minutes
<macogw> Palintheus: wow, ok
<Balkhog> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 07 2007, 10:13:14 - Next meeting: MOTU Team in 13 hours 46 minutes
<Balkhog> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 07 2007, 15:57:07 - Next meeting: MOTU Team in 8 hours 2 minutes
<pkern> @schedule Europe/Berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
<highvolt1ge> @schedule Africa/Johannesburg
<ubotu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
<highvolt1ge> eesh, that's late
<highvolt1ge> (or early)
<evand> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 07 Sep 20:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 15:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 11:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: MOTU Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-08
<sistpoty> hi
<ajmitch> hi
<geser> Hi
<ajmitch> not many here today
<TheMuso> eeek
* TheMuso will do minutes/announcements
<TheMuso> Got so wrapped up in my own work.
<sistpoty> sorry for being late
<TheMuso> I haven't missed anything I hope
<ajmitch> TheMuso: iff we have something to talk about
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you were first to speak up ;)
<geser> TheMuso: you only missed some people saying hi
<TheMuso> heh right.
<sistpoty> ajmitch: but I'm drunk already, so I don't count ;)
<superm1> hasn't even started yet :)
<TheMuso> Well, my offer for minutes/announcements stands.
<ajmitch> haha
<sistpoty> (nvidia stuff gave me the rest, couldn't do this w.o. booze *g*)
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> agenda page just has motu sru process
<TheMuso> Who added it?
<ajmitch> no info
<TheMuso> So I can now see.
<ajmitch> ah, blame superm1
<TheMuso> Well no point talking about it if there aren't many here, as it does affect a lot of us, and if the original person who proposed it can't explain it, well theres no point...
<superm1> well i'm here
<sistpoty> ok, subsection two: motu-sru still needed: being (still) a member, this was abandoned quite some time ago.
<superm1> just lots of latency
<sistpoty> so motu-sru is neither needed, nor should be assigned/subscribed any bugs to
<TheMuso> I personally think we need more MOTUs at the meeting before this goes under the knife again.
<superm1> well the big thing i wanted to discuss with it was the role of archive admins
<geser> is there still some documentation left refering to motu-sru?
<superm1> becuase they have no idea what needs to be done
<sistpoty> superm1: do you think SRU's have got out of control?
<sistpoty> (as I'm not knowing anything about how much, nor how SRUs are done nowadays)
<superm1> sistpoty, not that they got out of control, but i had to file one for mythtv for edgy and feisty just last week
<superm1> and ended up having lots of troubles
<superm1> because people i discussed it with were confused by the process
<superm1> both Ridell and seb128 weren't positive about their role
<sistpoty> ok, knowing still knowing about the discussion around the new policy, maybe I should explain:
<sistpoty> since SRUs came with some delay (from -sru and from -archive) for hitting -proposed and later -updates, we decided to lower the barrier to -proposed
<sistpoty> also we decided that any motu could upload directly to -proposed (which -archive should intervene only if the version number was flawed, because removing from -proposed wasn't implemented in LP yet)
<superm1> so then they really have no say other than version number
<superm1> and its up to a MOTU to decide if it should really be going into -proposed
<sistpoty> yes. to keep the barrier to -proposed as simple as possible
<geser> yes, they should only check if the version is sane to be copied later to -updates
<sistpoty> however to get a package into -updates, the testing (as still described in the SRU page iirc) needs to be done.
<superm1> now its not clear whether the acks need to be MOTUs, or just general users testing -proposed count too then
<sistpoty> any ack countes
<sistpoty> -e
<superm1> okay that makes it a lot easier
<superm1> the min 7 day barrier to -updates, that's off the latest upload, or if there was a small fix to a proposed update, from the first upload
<ajmitch> getting that many motus to ack was too hard
<superm1> yea that's what i was realizing
<sistpoty> superm1: off the latest upload. Because this period is meant that the exact packages to end up in -updates later should get tested
<superm1> okay.
<sistpoty> however, the archive team will still do a sanity check for the proposed->updates migration (they did this anyways w. or w.o. -sru in the past). So finally they can decide on wether an update is fit for -updates or not
<superm1> now when its copied to -updates, can archive admins knock the ~proposed1 off an upload version number, or should it be the exact version number intended for -updates later?
<sistpoty> that's a good question, since syncing a package from one pocket to another is possible now. anyone got a clue?
<ajmitch> I think it's meant to have the version without ~proposed1
<ajmitch> but I may be wrong
<ajmitch> since that wouldn't allow multiple testing uploads
<sistpoty> ajmitch: but that would affect the upload to -proposed already?
<superm1> keescook had thought that perhaps appending a .1 like security updates would be a safer way to go
<superm1> that way more updates can be popped in
<geser> you upload to -proposed with the version which will end in -updates
<superm1> without needing to add stuff like ~proposedX
<geser> exactly, -0ubuntu1.1 as version and uploaded to -proposed
<sistpoty> might this clash with possible security update versions?
<geser> shouldn't further security updates base on the -updates packages?
<sistpoty> not necessarily
<superm1> and assuminingly the SRU would be based off security updates if they are out?
<geser> it wouldn't be good if bugs come back because of a security issue
<geser> IMHO a package uploaded to -security or -updates should have all the previous changes from -security or -updates
<sistpoty> hm.. likewise it might be bad if a security update would fix also (lesser important) stuff and thus have a higher risk to break stuff
<geser> isn't -updates activated by default, so people already have fixes
<sistpoty> not for universe (is security for universe enabled by default?)
<sistpoty> at least iirc
<geser> it would be bad to prepare a new SRU for every security update because the changes from -updates got lost
<sistpoty> right
<sistpoty> how about holding this particular item back and waiting for a clarification from the security team?
<superm1> well it would be bad too though if you have to decide between a new feature or issue in the SRU or a security resolution in the security update
<nixternal> oi!
<ajmitch> nixternal!
<sistpoty> hey nixternal
<nixternal> wasabi you funky MOTUs
<nixternal> oh, dholbacks first day on the job and he is hiding :p
* sistpoty looks innocent
<nixternal> hehe
<superm1> sistpoty yea i think thats a good idea
<sistpoty> however, back to business
<superm1> we can bring that discussion on to -devel mailing list probably
<sistpoty> ok, anyone who wants to mail pitti/keescook for a clarification and report back to the motu ml?
<sistpoty> superm1: or that
<sistpoty> superm1: would you tackle that?
<superm1> sistpoty sure, i'll shoot a mail out tomorrow for it
<sistpoty> great, thanks!
<sistpoty> ok, what else of the SRU policy needs discussion?
<superm1> well the motu-sru team
<superm1> do we need them still?
<ajmitch> no, and it's been gone for awhile
<superm1> k easy enough.  Now when its ready to go to -updates, should we just ping an archive admin, or more specifically what would that process be then?
* nixternal hopes that this will all eventually be documented nicely on the wiki
<geser> when you have the needed testing done, add a commen stating it and subscribe u-a
<superm1> ok.
* sistpoty just left -sru, after finding the link :)
<geser> and add the verfication-done tag (or similar)
<superm1> well i think thats it then for the SRU process, everything I found on it to be confused is resolved here
<TheMuso> Ok... SO what has been changed/clarrified
<sistpoty> no more -sru team, upload only to -proposed, testing as in wiki, after testing done add tag and subscribe -archive again (no more uploading). anything else?
<superm1> 1) no more motu-sru team
<sistpoty> sorry ;)
<superm1> 2) archive admins don't check *anything* more than version when going to -proposed
<superm1> 3) subscribe -archive, and then they can do more throughout checks
<superm1> 4) version numbers shouldn't have ~proposed1, but we still need to check about conflicting security updates
<superm1> 5) any person can comment that "works for them" not just motu
<TheMuso> And I am guessing someone will update wiki docs?
<superm1> 6) +1's have to be from latest upload, and the 7 day ticker starts over
<superm1> TheMuso, if you send this out in minutes, i can update the wiki tomorrow when i get home
* nixternal points at MootBot ->  we should be using this to track this meeting
<TheMuso> superm1: Ok.
<sistpoty> thanks a lot superm1!
<ajmitch> nixternal: too technical for us
<nixternal> lol
<ajmitch> great, any further business?
<nixternal> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 00:38. The chair is nixternal.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<ajmitch> Q&A/hug days?
<TheMuso> Yeah. What can we do to get more people to metings.
<nixternal> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 00:38.
<nixternal> how hard is that?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I would have thought that more people from .au would have been awake
<TheMuso> ajmitch: They are, but people don't always sit on the comp first thing in the morning. :)
<TheMuso> Mind you, it is wet in this part of Au.
<sistpoty> nixternal: for someone who is not enlighted, it's like asking ubotu aboute UVFE and then in plain text again ;)
<ajmitch> it started at 10am for you! that's not first thing :)
<nixternal> lol
* Fujitsu pokes his head in, and notes he forgot, because the last reminder was some 8 days ago.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Well how soon should the second reminder be?
<TheMuso> ...or maybe a third is needed.
<Fujitsu> It was 5 days after the announcement this time. It should probably at least be closer to the day than announcement.
<TheMuso> ok.
<Fujitsu> But I've no idea how far before it should actually be.
<TheMuso> but its been at various times in the pats, yet we still don't get a lot of regular attendees to the meetings.
<ajmitch> noone cares enough
<TheMuso> ajmitch: How can we change that?
* sistpoty must admit that sistpoty was only there occasionally
<ajmitch> probably because we often don't have much to talk about
<superm1> maybe we should give out karma to those that show up :)
<sistpoty> maybe explicitely invite hopefuls as well?
<TheMuso> I dunno... But I wonder if we can't still do something to get more people here...
<TheMuso> sistpoty: Thats what I was thinking.
<sistpoty> and maybe have new hopefuls introduce themselves during meeting time, to make them feeling more rooted in the motu world
<sistpoty> (which of course might take precious discussion time=
<geser> TheMuso: is the time ok for those in .au/.nz or should it be moved further into the .au day?
<TheMuso> But if we have little to talk about...
<TheMuso> geser: I can't comment on that, as I'm usually always here on Sat mornings anyway.
<TheMuso> So I am somewhat different from the norm.
<sistpoty> TheMuso: right, I wanted to quote precious actually, but fingers were faster than brain
<TheMuso> heh
<geser> my impression is that meetings on 12:00 UTC are more visited than those at 0:00 UTC
<TheMuso> geser: Right.
<geser> would perhaps an other time rotation scheme work better?
<TheMuso> geser: Thats the thing. This scheme works for those who attend, which means its always at similar times.
<sistpoty> what's the current scheme? +/- 12?
<TheMuso> With more people attending, we can get a wider view of what suits people.
<TheMuso> sistpoty: Yes, on Fridays.
<TheMuso> WHich I wonder if people would rather it be another day.
<geser> sistpoty: yes, 12 UTC and 0 UTC
<sistpoty> maybe a rotation based on +/(-) 8 would be better? not too sure though
<geser> sistpoty: 12UTC +/- 8 or 0 UTC +/- 8?
<TheMuso> Well as I said, we need others to attend, otherwise the usuals get to set the time to something that suits them.
<sistpoty> geser: no preference really. was just a stupid idea
<TheMuso> Does anybody think a topic on the ml about this is worth trying?
<TheMuso> I'd be happy to post it.
<sistpoty> TheMuso: not too sure if conclusions will result from it, but I'd definitely think its worth trying.
<geser> let's try it, it can't get much worser with attendings
<TheMuso> Ok, will do that later today.
<TheMuso> So, I guess we get onto our fixed topics...
<TheMuso> Unless anybody else has something to say/other business...
<DktrKranz> could I ask you something about sru process?
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: sure, just go ahead
<geser> DktrKranz: ask
<DktrKranz> thanks
<DktrKranz> how sponsors manage sru requests? sometimes it's hard to verify them
<DktrKranz> either they don't have requisites to verify or simply they don't have a specific version
<DktrKranz> sometimes a request lies in the queue for a long time, proably because of that
<DktrKranz> is there any plan/discussion to improve the process?
<sistpoty> hm... to anyone who sponsors packages, where do you think is the difficulty in sponsoring SRUs and how could this be improved?
<sistpoty> damn, from MC I'm so used to ask questions *g*
<ajmitch> you do it so well ;)
<sistpoty> thx
<ajmitch> thought of a career in journalism? :)
* ajmitch hasn't been sponsoring lately, so can't really answer this one
<sistpoty> not really, I'm quite good at coding unfortunately ;)
<sistpoty> hm... how long is the sponsoring queue nowadays actually?
<geser> I wouldn't be confident to sponsor a SRU I couldn't check or where I'm not sure if the patch is correct (when I can't check it)
<TheMuso> I still think a lot of MOTUs are uncomfortable with SRUs, and I'm not affraid to admit I'm one of them.
<Fujitsu> I've done several SRUs, but only where I have been involved from the start
<geser> I don't know how many MOTUs changed already to gutsy which makes SRU checking a little bit harder
<TheMuso> Mind you, once the SRU stuff discussed earlier is documented, I'll be more enclined to help with them.
<sistpoty> do you think a separate SRU-sponsoring team would help?
* Fujitsu recalls the good old days of about a year ago, when he was trying to perform a SRU, but there was no policy.
<TheMuso> sistpoty: No, I just think we really need to ensure we are all comfortable with the procedure.
<TheMuso> I certainly am willing to help once I know what I'm doing.
<sistpoty> right, good point
<sistpoty> actually I was thinking of transferring responsibility to contributors. This means a SRU-sponsorship team would only need to look at diffs and give thumbs up/down. However if s.th. goes wrong the team would need to make sure that it will fire up an update ASAP. But I guess that's nothing but what motu-sru was for MOTUs in the past
<sistpoty> (or rather should have been ;)
<sistpoty> but TheMuso's point still stands
<Fujitsu> I think SRUs need to have a MOTU associated, as there is some kind of reliability implicit in MOTUship. MOTUs aren't likely to vanish, whereas contributors regularly do.
<TheMuso> sistpoty IMO anybody can look at a diff and say yay or nay. Its the procedure that people aren't easy with.
<TheMuso> Thats why we are so quick to do gutsy work, as there is almost never any red tape.
<TheMuso> Thats how I see it anyway.
* Fujitsu agrees with TheMuso.
<sistpoty> right, so let's hope that communicating how the process works will get improvement. We can still discuss it if it doesn't, agreed? ;)
<TheMuso> Agreed.
* superm1 agrees
<superm1> and now that i understand the process correctly, i'll be glad to work with other contributors that want to get an SRU through
<TheMuso> Yeah, I'l;l be the same once I can digest a doc. :)
* DktrKranz believes he will ping superm1 soon :)
<TheMuso> So... Shall we move onto deciding times for next meeting etc?
<sistpoty> yes, please
<TheMuso> I'll let others decide, as I can generally make them
<TheMuso> Don't chime in all at once... :)
<TheMuso> Two weeks from now?
<geser> sounds good
<TheMuso> 12:00 UTC?
* Fujitsu should be there, if he remembers.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I'll attempt to do better with the announcements.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I should have remembered anyway, but that would be good, thanks.
<TheMuso> anybody else speak up now, or twill be set in stone...
* Fujitsu engraves it into the stone.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yep, sounds good.
<TheMuso> do universe hug days even happen?
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately not, it seems.
<TheMuso> Well, I say we leave it TBA.
<TheMuso> revu is off till next cycle.
<TheMuso> Did dholbach end up holding any more Q&A sessions?
<TheMuso> Or anybody else?
<superm1> well there is a MOTU/LP PPA session that will be going on soon
<superm1> that should be mentioned
<superm1> as soon as the date is determined
<TheMuso> superm1: Will do. Do we have a date/time for that?
<TheMuso> ah ok
<TheMuso> Alrighty... I think we can say this meeting is closed...
<Fujitsu> Closed/disintegrated, but yes.
<sistpoty> thanks everyone!
<superm1> indeed glad to settle $things, night all
* geser moves to bed now, it's nearly 4 am here
<TheMuso> Minutes will hopefully be in the next 24/48 hours.
<Fujitsu> Thanks TheMuso.
<TheMuso> np
<DktrKranz> thanks for the answers, see you :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<Balkhog> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 08 2007, 04:18:52 - Next meeting: Xubuntu Developers in 12 hours 41 minutes
<elfreiant>  c quan on ligne
<elfreiant>  ???? svp
<Meyvn> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Sep 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 15:00: Kernel Team
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team
<somerville32> Heya
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<janimo> somerville32: hey
<janimo> jeromeg: hi
<jeromeg> hello
<janimo> jeromeg: nice work on bug triaging
<jeromeg> janimo : no problem :)
<jeromeg> janimo: don't forget to thank mr_pouit for all uploads fixing the bugs ;)
<janimo> jeromeg: I have talked to  him several times alreday. but I meet you for the first time :)
<jeromeg> pleasure
<jeromeg> i won't be so involved in the next few months
<jeromeg> school...
<somerville32> Once I get things sorted out with my life, I'll be as active as I was pre-hospital.
<janimo> ok shall we start?
<janimo> is anyone besides Cody and Jerome here for the xubuntu meeting?
<Balkhog> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 08 2007, 17:04:06 - Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers
<jeromeg> janimo : I might have to go in a few minutes
<janimo> somerville32, jeromeg: I guess we'll talk among ourselves
<janimo> jeromeg: nooone here regarding teh website
<jeromeg> may I sumerize what I have to say ?
<janimo> jeromeg: please do
<jeromeg> ok
<jeromeg> I think that during this release a good improvement has been made, long standing bugs have been fixed
<jeromeg> for example the non translated session quit dialog
<jeromeg> I've noticed with mr_pouit that xfce upstream is very reactive
<jeromeg> particuraly the thunar dev
<jeromeg> often solving crasher bugs in one day
<janimo> jeromeg: reactive? you mean you had good collaboration during gutsy with them?
<mr_pouit> hi (sorry for being late)
<janimo> hi Lionel
<jeromeg> janimo: yep very good I think
<janimo> jeromeg: good
<jeromeg> we have been solving crashing bugs in thunar, panel
<jeromeg> very quickly
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Canonical Desktop Team
<jeromeg> compared with gnome dev for example
<janimo> how is  the number of new bugs vs the closed ones
<jeromeg> well I think we have closed a lot
<janimo> jeromeg: what example can you give of a gnome dev
<janimo> jeromeg: that you compare with
<jeromeg> nautilus for example
<jeromeg> they don't even answer
<mr_pouit> no so many new bugs
<mr_pouit> *not
<jeromeg> second point, but I think it will change now with automatic apport
<janimo> probbaly they have a lot of duplicate bug they're among the top apps in gnome bugzilla
<mr_pouit> but I am afraid that's because there are very few testers :/
<jeromeg> there are a lot of non reported bugs
<jeromeg> yep that's what I was going to tell
<jeromeg> just one example : it took 4 tribes release to notice that panels were crashing when you removed one
<janimo> are there any fixes in what will be upstream xfce4 4.2.2 that are important to us?
<janimo> jeromeg: indeed we have very poor and uncoordonated testiong
<jeromeg> janimo : I must say that a lot of "bug" are resulting of the ton of patches we have
<janimo> jeromeg: for instance?
<jeromeg> we diverge too much from upstream
<jeromeg> janimo : for example the mounting features of exo-mount/gnome-mount
<mr_pouit> janimo: the most important (xfwm4 & panel bugs with gtk 2.11.6) are already in the packages
<jeromeg> it's a pain in the ass to report bugs to upstream concerning this
<janimo> jeromeg: that will stay that way until exo is as good as gnome mount for us
<jeromeg> we never now if it's our fault or upstream's
<janimo> jeromeg: well bugs which arespecific to us should not be reported
<janimo> but this is the same situataion with gnome ubuntu
<janimo> we have very little patches actually
<jeromeg> janimo: yep but you have to notice it before ;)
<janimo> jeromeg: do you know any other cases were bugs are caused by our patches?
<jeromeg> janimo : yes but our patches involve a quite big change
<jeromeg> janimo : for example the dialog of quitting session
<jeromeg> was our problem
<jeromeg> but worked like a charm upstream
<janimo> jeromeg: what bug does it cause? (I think I knew one but forgot it)
<jeromeg> janimo : translation; but mr_pouit  fixed it
<jeromeg> i got to go now sorry
<janimo> jeromeg: I wouln;d call missing trasnaltion a serios bug
<janimo> jeromeg: so 'ton of patches
<janimo> causng many bugs is a bit of a strecth don't you think :) ?
<jeromeg> yep maybe I exagerated
<janimo> jeromeg: whe you considr that that patch allows swicth user hibernate suspend and better UI in that dialog
<jeromeg> :)
<jeromeg> just before leaving the other point I wanted to give my opinion on
<janimo> similarly gnome-mount is there so we can easily mount non removable drivers and crypted partitions
<jeromeg> and it's linked to what you are saying
<jeromeg> I think that we are moving away from xubuntu
<jeromeg> more and more gnome apps/gnome libs are integrated
<jeromeg> I don't see the point of shipping xubuntu with all ubuntu apps
<jeromeg> maybe it's better now
<jeromeg> but it doesn't help in the inprovement of xfce in general
<janimo> jeromeg: not all ubuntu apps but some which make xubuntu easier to use withjout causing it to be too bloated
<jeromeg> janimo : yep but every release  more and more are coming
<jeromeg> for example, was it really essential to ship gnome-screensaver
<jeromeg> ?
<janimo> jeromeg: currenlty cd burnig and archiving are broken for newbie users on xubuntu
<janimo> jeromeg: why do you say that? 'more and more are coming'?
<mr_pouit> the main issue for me is using gnome apps when good xfce apps exist... ok for xfburn, it's broken, but for file-roller?
<janimo> each change is judged on its own, let's not forsee what is not in the future :)
<jeromeg> janimo : on xubuntu-devel mailing list we can see that I think
<janimo> mr_pouit: you said you're not usng xarchiver
<janimo> it is set to defayult here
<janimo> and I have been annoyed by it a few times
<jeromeg> i think we should help upstream fixing bugs, forward them the bugs
<mr_pouit> janimo: yeah, but squeeze seems to be what we seek
<janimo> it's UI (not the looks) but the behaviour sucks
<janimo> mr_pouit: squeeze is not even beta
<janimo> we cannot use things which are not released
<jeromeg> ok got to go
<jeromeg> just said what i wanted to
<janimo> file-roller is mature has a good ui (DnD, navigating archive contents, open with app) regular release and repsonsive maintainer
<jeromeg> keep up with the good work
<janimo> jeromeg: ok, thak you for coming
<jeromeg> and remember we are xubuntu with an X ;)
<mr_pouit> http://squeeze.xfce.org/ <<< why is it called 'release'?
<jeromeg> ciao
* somerville32 waves.
<mr_pouit> I don't speak of ristretto which is in pre-alpha state :P
<janimo> mr_pouit: anything can be called a release :)
<janimo> I am pretty sure that (since it was not touched since april) is not finished
<janimo> mr_pouit: have you tested squeeze?
<mr_pouit> yeah
<mr_pouit> no issue
<janimo> I just know its author started it with preformance in mind
<janimo> mr_pouit: better that xarchiver?
<Balkhog> I see
<mr_pouit> I prefer, but that's only my opinion
<somerville32> I thought Xarchiver was a part of the Xfce4 family.
<janimo> somerville32: that is an informal status and has little bearing n the quality of an app
<mr_pouit> xarchiver is sort of dm-independent
<janimo> mr_pouit: well you should have packaged it bu now :) I thiught squeeze is unmaintained or abandoned
<janimo> mr_pouit: why what does squeeze depend on?
<mr_pouit> janimo: it's in my ppa, but it's too late for gutsy
<janimo> mr_pouit: any disadvantage you see in squeeze?
<mr_pouit> some weeks (or months?) ago, its author told us that he didn't consider it as stable/usable
<mr_pouit> when we were speaking of xarchiver on the ML
<janimo> I guess we have to trust him then
<mr_pouit> yeah
<janimo> I'd really like us to start having stabe and mature apps in default
<janimo> we have always been a bit edgy
<janimo> because xfce is for more knowledgable poeople
<janimo> but I do not thyingk that is a very good idea
<janimo> anymore
<janimo> easy to use and stable and fast
<janimo> on a 256M machine ubuntu si crawling
<janimo> but xubuntu is not friendly enough
<janimo> so many ousers in that category are just mixing them anyway
<janimo> besides, with file-roller the performance and memory consumtion arguments brought up by Giuseppe are irrelevant:
<janimo> if xarchiver is better because it uses 40M instead of 120M
<janimo> in that case the 600K extra mem of libgnome depsa does not matter
<mr_pouit> which program does still depend on libgnome in xubuntu?
<janimo> so, the only thing I have with squeeze it seems inactivem, and it upstream told us it's not ready that's it
<janimo> otherwise I;d have nothing against putting itin gutsy now
<janimo> I always added new apps to xubuntu even in the last weeks since wse cannot break ubuntu/kubuntu so we are sort of unoficially allowed
<janimo> especially since all those changed improved things :)
<mr_pouit> (the upstream author is developing ristretto at the moment, I guess that's why squeeze is inactive now)
<janimo> mr_pouit: currently gnome-screensaver but that will go away when my libgnomekbd patch in upstream gets in the archve
<janimo> mr_pouit: oh, same author
<janimo> ok
<mr_pouit> I thought gnome-screensaver was already patched
<janimo> so a good reaso not to use shiny new apps, they may jost stop being developed
<janimo> mr_pouit: g-s-s itslef yes,but it depends on libgnomekbd
<janimo> which is not yet
<janimo> but noone notices since thoselibs are already on the CD since edgy
<mr_pouit> ok
<janimo> we need them for a11y in the xubuntu live CD
<mr_pouit> is g-s-s started by default now?
<janimo> so CD space has not been an issue (only on the alternate)
<janimo> mr_pouit: if it isn;t it's abug
<janimo> I changed xfce40utils a hwile ago to start it in preference to x-s-s
<mr_pouit> yeah, I saw the changelog
<janimo> this way we get better integration with g-power-manager for thse who istall that
<janimo> mr_pouit: it starts on my laptop by default so at least in one case it works :)
<mr_pouit> here it still launch x-s-s :/
<janimo> mr_pouit: as fgor gnonme deps I keep sending patches to upstream, but they are sloow to apply them
<mr_pouit> janimo: yeah, I saw this for nm-applet
<janimo> mr_pouit: xinitrc is a configfile it may not have been touched by the update?
<janimo> mr_pouit: and gucharmap and the rest of the patches as wel were applied weeks afetr I filed them
<janimo> it kind of sucks but at least they apply them evebntually
<janimo> file-roller was an exception, the maintainer applied patches usually within 2 days
<janimo> I got rid of some gnhome api's
<janimo> but some are still left
<janimo> it's less work anyway that starting things from scrath
<janimo> and I wish people would understand that having fun is not always compatible with happy users
<janimo> mr_pouit: so on teh archiver front what do you say about switching to file-roller for beta?
<janimo> oh, and the majority of apps in xubuntu will only be in recommeneded
<janimo> so anyone cand switch them out or remove them
<mr_pouit> yeah, I saw
<janimo> this will cause less trouble for those who are more advanced and want sepcific apps
<mr_pouit> I don't like file-roller very much... what are we gonna do when a stable squeeze is release?
<janimo> mr_pouit: we'll see then
<janimo> squeeze or ristretto or xarchiver
<janimo> waiting for another six month hoping is not a good
<janimo> idea
<janimo> xarhiver was put early in dapper because we had no tool at all
<janimo> and in the hope it will quickly imporve
<janimo> well it is more or less the same as a year ago
<janimo> one advantage of the gnome apps (and gnome vs xfce) is the schedule
<janimo> you know how to plan in advance
<janimo> and not get hurried decision just before release candidate
<mr_pouit> the point I don't like with all this is that we aren't going to create an integrated xfce desktop... only the xfce core with gnome apps picked up here and there
<janimo> mr_pouit: I do not like ngome deps, to be very clear.that's why I keep making those boring and thankless patches :)
<janimo> but I prefer a good UI and default apps which I am not ashamed of
<janimo> mr_pouit: havig a core xfce desktop is not the goal of xubuntu
<janimo> it is juts the best desktpo that is both friendly and not heavy
<janimo> but the apps which are non core are not as good quality as xfce core
<mr_pouit> yeah
<janimo> so it doesnot make sense to cary them just because their names start with x or xf
<janimo> users do not care whether its' gnome xfce ubuntu
<janimo> newbies I mean
<mr_pouit> so we'll gain the 'friendly', but somewhat lose the 'light' and 'integrated' sides
<janimo> they want osmehting to work as they are used tyo in wndows
<janimo> or else they will say linux sucks and wait another year
<janimo> mr_pouit: yes, although I'd like to make clear that only gaion friendly when it is an essential feature
<mr_pouit> yes
<janimo> so we will not put fspot instead of gqview vene though it is 10 times friendlier :)
<janimo> and there's the separate issue of always running and occasioanl apps
<janimo> brasero or file-roller you start once do somehting and close
<janimo> so you only lose memory explicitely
<janimo> soince both handel large amounts of data their code memory is less relevant
<janimo> OTOH getting things by default in the panel or systray is another issue
<janimo> we added trash when it was available
<janimo> it was a firendly feature but ate anothe 3-4 M as any gtk app does
<janimo> this cycle the places menu: it is a stanslone plugin so it too consumes a few megs
<janimo> and so on
<janimo> printer applet ditto
<janimo> lucklily all thise can be disabled and are not in the hard depends of the desktop
<somerville32> IS the trash plugin external or internal?
<janimo> somerville32: extrenal
<janimo> that's why it takes up extra ram
<janimo> update-notifier is the most requested app we do not have
<somerville32> Personally I just install the ubuntu package
<mr_pouit> Toadstool was working on it
<janimo> that if we add it, again will take up !3m
<janimo> mr_pouit: even if he gets rid of libgnome
<janimo> it will take up 3 megs instead of 4
<janimo> for example
<janimo> the numbers are not exact I got different measures as different time so they are not to be 100% trusted
<janimo> network manager ditto
<janimo> it would be nice to have easy wifi out of the box
<somerville32> Why aren't developers using the ability to make their plugins internal? I thought that was recommended to cut down on unnecessary memory consumption.
<janimo> that too consumes
<janimo> somerville32: internal plugins have the disadvantage that 1) if they crash the whole panel crashes
<janimo> 2) when their UI is in use the other panel UI is blocked
<janimo> so if you pop up a context menu on an internal panel plugin the rest of the panel (clock, sys monitors) will not update
<janimo> so they had their reasons for making plugins external
<somerville32> What happened to threading?
<janimo> I was thinking that making soem of the externals into internal would be good for memory but it may not be good for other
<janimo> somerville32: I think you can only have one thread that does UI
<janimo> somerville32: but yes this should be simpler and more effective (I have plans but usually nothing comes out of them)
<janimo> so back to gnome apps
<janimo> what do we do for gutsy?
<janimo> increase the default mem consumption of the default desktop?
<janimo> on the liveCD we alreay need 256 if I am not mistaken
<janimo> if we are past 128 or even 196 anyway we may as well use the extra till 256 if we do not shoot over it
<janimo> that would really be creepy for xubuntu
<somerville32> I had to go buy ancient ram just so that I could continue to run Xubuntu
<janimo> somerville32: how much?
<janimo> ram I mean
<somerville32> I'm at 256mb
<somerville32> I was at 128mb
<janimo> needd for liveCD or installed as well?
<somerville32> For LiveCd...
<janimo> aha
<somerville32> on.
<somerville32> *no.
<somerville32> This is for running it
<janimo> I don;t know how it managed to work in 128 for dapper
<somerville32> I installed dapper with 256mb
<janimo> teh ubuntu base system was smaller too back then
<mr_pouit> janimo: about g-s-s, xfce4-mcs-plugins needs to be patched imo: #define SCREENSAVER_EXE "xscreensaver-demo", we should replace it with gnome-screensaver-preferences maybe?
<janimo> mr_pouit: so do you have a strong opinion agains file-roller?
<janimo> mr_pouit: good catch, we have to
<mr_pouit> janimo: strong, no, I'am not very enthusiastic, that's all
<vinze> Hey
<janimo> mr_pouit: I am not enthusiastic either
<janimo> I just think that its advantages outweigh the fact that is uses libgnome
<janimo> and I plan to drop that for gnome 2.22
<janimo> what about brasero? this has much more and weired deps
<janimo> gstreamer is already in with pidgin AFAIK
<janimo> and firefox 3.0 is using libgnome :(
<vinze> Really?
<vinze> As in: the multi-platform Firefox?
<janimo> yes, for session management
<vinze> Wow...
<janimo> vinze: as the messy multiplatform firefox
<vinze> Yeah, true
<janimo> well platform means OS/ARCH not desktop enviroments
<vinze> Yeah of course
<somerville32> Ok
<janimo> any thoughts on the gnome apps issue, cody, vincent?
<vinze> I'm in favour of adding them
<vinze> Well, some of them only, obviously ;-)
<janimo> since polls proved to be a failure (expect we sa w update notifier is most requested)
<janimo> we could add some for beta and see the reactions
<janimo> how it changes liveCD usability, and whether teh comment will be mostly posotive or negative
<janimo> we have time after beta tpo reconsider or undo some of the changes if they prove unpopular or buggy
<somerville32> Does our current testing process just involve making sure it loads/installs or are there post-install tests utilized by the testers.
<somerville32> I know I started to develop some before Jim took over
<janimo> somerville32: I know nothing about our test porcess
<vinze> Would be interesting, but perhaps it's a bit late in the process to change it again after the beta...
<janimo> vinze: well the changes will be 'drop' and have nothing (brasero, n-m, upadte notifier)
<janimo> so it;s not code change that is intrusive
<janimo> they do these kind of reversion all the time
<janimo> in ubuntu
<vinze> OK, then I'd say: go for it :P
<janimo> that's why it;'s a beta to see if it is worth havuing
<vinze> There was this interesting comment on a Dutch site
<janimo> although I'd like to wait till we have the n-m patch to drop gnome deps accepted
<vinze> Wait, I'll translate it...
<somerville32> update-notifier is just a background process that checks to see if upgrades are available and then uses the notification-daemon (which we already ship) to notify the user, right?
<janimo> or else we cannot say that we want it in xubuntu if it;s already there
<janimo> somerville32: u-n is a systray app in C and gnome libs
<janimo> it does more that notifications
<janimo> starts upadtemanager, restarts the session and maybe other things too
<somerville32> I think u-n is something we can do for sure for Hardy
<somerville32> Without the gnome apps
<mr_pouit> yeah
<janimo> somerville32: I hope we do it now for gutsy
<janimo> somerville32: and not a reimplementation is what you mean I hope
<vinze> Here is that Dutch comment:
<vinze> "The question of whether Xfce ought to aim at speed or features is an easy one to me: features. The reason why is that Xfce is profiling itself as a Desktop Environment. That means it should come with worthy applications. Seeing that Xfce also uses GTK it's not unlogical that the discussion gets going about using Gnome applications.
<vinze> Furthermore, Xfce should realize that the definition of "old computer" is changing. Here, too, time doesn't stop. Of course there are still people on a PIII with little memory, but I think that the PIV can now be seen as basic computer. Those are now about 5 years old and are perfectly capable of running Gnome or KDE. Xfce should not be a problem at all."
<janimo> vinze: thanks for translating
<vinze> np
<janimo> there are still old computers
<janimo> thse which were running xubuntu last year are not magically getting upgraded
<vinze> Yeah I think we could go a bit older, but some people have really extreme systems
<janimo> but we should consider usabiliy (not necessarily feature)
<somerville32> I think it would be a good idea to set hard targets for performance
<janimo> I do not mind if we don;t have all the features of gnome
<vinze> somerville32, yeah, I agree
<janimo> but the ones we have I expect to work well
<somerville32> I agree.
<vinze> janimo, exactly
<janimo> hence am pro file-roller but against nautilus with all its nice vfs features
<vinze> file-roller is really slow though
<janimo> whatever we have it should not surpise or disappoint the user
<vinze> But Nautilus especially is a no-go IMHO
<janimo> and xfbunr and xarchiver have bith done that
<janimo> vinze: yes, I was jut making a comparison
<janimo> obviously we do not put nautius in
<vinze> To be honest, I haven't really heard many complaints about xarchiver except from you Jani
<janimo> vinze: do you know others using xubuntu/xarchiver?
<mr_pouit> <offtopic> janimo: I have patched xfce4-mcs-plugin to launch g-ss, it works fine, except the help button (I guess it tries to start gnome-help). </offtopic>
<janimo> besides myself I heard complaint from a person who used my computer (windows user)
<janimo> was baffled why she cannot open the files inside the archyive
<vinze> janimo, no but I do listen quite a lot to Xubuntu users
<vinze> But I have indeed not heard from users of whom I know are used to other archivers
<janimo> mr_pouit: right it tries to laucnh it (it should pop up an error dialog)
<janimo> vinze: they have to be novice users
<janimo> as with ubuntu our target is novice users
<janimo> but whoi happen to have underpowered (by todays standards) machines
<vinze> OK, then I think it would be OK to switch it for now, but we should definitely reconsider it when a new version arrives (for the then-next release of Xubuntu)
<vinze> But I'm glad that we actually have a target
<vinze> If our target is "novice users" we should definitely be adding the Gnome-libs for unsatisfactory apps
<janimo> vinze: we should always consider alternatives and pick the best (according various criteria)
<vinze> janimo, ok
<janimo> expert users can install xubuntu and then tweak it as they wish
<janimo> that has always been true
<janimo> the reason we dod not say novice users so far is beacuse of lack of features
<janimo> but those are slowly arriving (places menu, printing)
<vinze> Yeah but I think Xubuntu has now matured to a level where we come quite close
<janimo> indeed
<janimo> I think adding gnome apps if they do not noticably degrade performance is ok
<vinze> I realized it just this afternoon when I was notified of updates, I would click "Install" and after a while I got the notification that I had to reboot my computer (at the time I wished)
<janimo> xfec core and abi+gnuneric are fixed
<janimo> but all else is fair game I say
<vinze> I agree
<janimo> vinze: so you do use update-notifier right?
<vinze> Yeah
<vinze> But I've added quite some Gnome and even Qt libs because I like experimenting with apps
<vinze> But update-notifier is always the first thing I add
<janimo> ok, anything else do discuss
<janimo> ?
* vinze sets out to look at the wiki page
<vinze> Oh that was it already... :S
<mr_pouit> some things still to do
<mr_pouit> the 'About Xfce' menu icon
<mr_pouit> iirc, that's the only one missing
<vinze> Did Jmak finalize his AA-icon already?
<mr_pouit> yes
<vinze> Cool
<vinze> xfce4-taskmanager doesn't have an icon with me, is that fixed already?
<janimo> mr_pouit: oh yes the hel picon
<mr_pouit> vinze: xfce4-taskmanager has been replaced with gnome-system-monitor
<janimo> mr_pouit: we talked on the list but the thread dies: what about help on the desktop?
<vinze> Oh yeah, that's true
<janimo> we have the icons in the desktop menu
<janimo> what do you think of a launcher woth xfhelp4 and a nice icon in the top panel just as in ubuntu?
<janimo> it laucnhes the browser with the xubuntu page
<vinze> janimo, On the panel or on the desktop?
<janimo> panel
<vinze> Panel would be fine IMO
<janimo> vinze: we keep the desktop clean
<vinze> Yeah that's one of the most appreciated points across reviews ;)
<mr_pouit> ok, let's add it then
<mr_pouit> something else about desktop layout: why do we use 2 panels?
<janimo> mr_pouit: :)
<janimo> mr_pouit: that's what upstream uses and ubuntu as well
<janimo> we have quite a few apps and laucnhers
<janimo> and they would be crowded on one panel
<janimo> this way all 4 corners of the screen which are fats to access with the mouse are useful
<somerville32> Alright, I have to run but it was nice chatting with you all again. Hopefully things will be a bit more settled for me during the next release cycle and I'll be able to assist with packaging again.
<mr_pouit> I thought upstream used only one panel
<janimo> s/fats/fast/
<vinze> By somerville32
<janimo> mr_pouit: hmm. oh, you're right
<janimo> mr_pouit: one panel at the middle bottom
<janimo> using xubuntu for so long I forgot how the default looked like :)
<vinze> mr_pouit, janimo, I think it also brings a clear separation between status-display-stuff (bottom panel) and action buttons (top panel)
<janimo> ok, so then it's only ubuntu copying
<vinze> janimo, same here ;-)
<janimo> anyway Jasper said upstream layout is historical and said the xubuntu one is ok
<vinze> Yeah it was modelled after Mac OS's one I believe
<janimo> I am not sure what it was modeled after but I trust them on being usable by novices
<mr_pouit> there is also this proposition: http://www.xfce.org/images/about/screenshots/4.4-1.png
<vinze> I don't really see the use of having a non-full-width panel...
<vinze> Windows won't occupy that space, and it's easy to click so it would be a shame not to use it
<mr_pouit> I use a single non-full-width panel, but with the auto-hide function
<mr_pouit> but that's probably to complicated for novice users
<vinze> But auto-hide is very confusing for new users I think
<vinze> ;-)
<janimo> exaclty
<janimo> we aim for ease of use
<vinze> WTF?
<janimo> advanced users will fill up their panels anyway with all kinds of plugins and rearrange them vertically or whatever
<vinze> I just started downloading Tribe 5 and it's already at 42%!
<vinze> 53%...
<mr_pouit> ok, another question: is tango icon theme ok?
<mr_pouit> jmak proposed to use NuoveXT2
<janimo> mr_pouit: I don't know what that looks like
<vinze> Are there any screenshots anywhere?
<janimo> is it packaged?
<vinze> 62%... :P
<janimo> I am ok with testing with alreday packaged artwork
<janimo> otherwise it is probbaly too much work at this point
<mr_pouit> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/nuoveXT+2?content=56625
<mr_pouit> and unfortunately it's not packaged
<janimo> I say go with what we have now
<vinze> It does look very nice
<janimo> tango icons look god
<janimo> when that new one is packaged it can be evaluated
<vinze> Yeah, true, and they're complete
<janimo> but until then it's an 'expert' thing
<vinze> Oh and they're not SVG I see
<mr_pouit> and lots of dups
<mr_pouit> *duplicates
<mr_pouit> the author doesn't use any symlink
<vinze> OK, so any more to discuss?
<mr_pouit> it seems not
<janimo> so what is the decision:
<janimo> add file-roller to beta
<vinze> +1
<janimo> add update notifier to beta
<mr_pouit> ok
<vinze> +1
<janimo> network manager?
<vinze> +1
<vinze> Oh wait
<vinze> Emm...
<janimo> with these two I'd like to get the libgnomes dropeed first
<janimo> even if we want u-n in
<vinze> Are you quite sure they *will* get dropped before Gutsy is released?
<janimo> vinze: no Iam not
<vinze> Hmm...
<vinze> They would be really nice to have
<mr_pouit> janimo: did asac reply?
<janimo> mr_pouit: nope
<mr_pouit> :/
<janimo> pinged him on ircx as well but was not around
<mr_pouit> I'll update x-d-s to add the help launcher to the panel
<janimo> mr_pouit: ok, thanks
<janimo> mr_pouit: we may need an icon, if there's none for xfhelp feel free to take the one form gnome (yelp) :)
<mr_pouit> what is xfhelp4 supposed to launch?
<mr_pouit> the xubuntu desktop guide or the xfce4 help?
<janimo> xfbrowser4
<janimo> it is very indirect :)
<janimo> and that in turn laucnhes x-ww-browser I think
<janimo> but am not sure
<janimo> anyway you can just hardcode to x-www-browser command if xfhelp4 is too convoluted
<janimo> so it does not take too much time laucnhing
<janimo> or even firefox direcly but that will berak if poeple switch browsers and remove ff
<mr_pouit> the xfce4 doc isn't available in lots of language
<mr_pouit> +s
<mr_pouit> the french one is still for xfce 4.2
<mr_pouit> :/
<mr_pouit> is this really a good idea?
<janimo> mr_pouit: no, we should laucnh the xubuntu doc in firefox
<janimo> teh xfce docs are indeed poor we may even want to hide them from the desktop menu
<vinze> Yeah I'd do that
<janimo> so the xubuntu desktop guide is what we want to show
<mr_pouit> ok
<mr_pouit> the desktop guide is launched by the 'Help' entry in the menu btw
<janimo> right, we can keep that then
<janimo> I thougt it was the xfce help
<janimo> mr_pouit: what about brasero?
<janimo> that is not as much for novices as an archiver
<janimo> so probably not as high prio
<janimo> but would be nice imo
<mr_pouit> no new bug was reported since I uploaded the 0.6.1 bugfix release
<janimo> mr_pouit: didi that close bugs in LP?
<mr_pouit> no, because many people do not come back
<mr_pouit> or they don't run gutsy, so they can't test
<janimo> ok
<janimo> do you think it should be in xubuntu default?
<janimo> or rather do you think we shoukld have a cd burner?
<janimo> becasue if we do we do not have other choice but brasero
<mr_pouit> brasero is a good choice, it works fine
<janimo> ok
<janimo> so we add it
<vinze> Brasero still is being developed?
<janimo> vinze: yes
<vinze> It looks good
<janimo> it sure does
<mr_pouit> the 7.0 release is under development
<vinze> (Not that I have any experience with CD burning applications)
<mr_pouit> with plugins support
<vinze> But whoa, the dependencies...
<janimo> I have used it recently although on ly for iso writing
<janimo> I do not know how it's compilation window is working
<janimo> indeed the depends are crazy
<vinze> I've got this feeling that that Xubuntu+gnome apps will be a huge success... :P
<mr_pouit> we can defer for hardy
<janimo> mr_pouit: I do not think they'll drop the depends until then
<janimo> mr_pouit: you think there will be another app?
<mr_pouit> no ^^
<janimo> that would be suboptimal anyway
<janimo> the problem with gtk cd burners is that there are too many an non finished
<mr_pouit> gnomebaker, graveman, xfburn...
<mr_pouit> ok, I guess there is no more to discuss
<vinze> Good night then :)
<janimo> ok, good night
<mr_pouit> good night
<janimo> I'll write a summary to the list
<mr_pouit> janimo: do you update the seeds?
<vinze> Thanks
<janimo> mr_pouit: yes with file-roller
<janimo> mr_pouit:but brasero needs to be in main if we ship it
<mr_pouit> yes
<janimo> and with update notifier I'll wait a bit hoping it will be patched
<janimo> let's see what Jeremie does
<mr_pouit> ok
<mr_pouit> and what are we going to do with xarchiver?
<janimo> mr_pouit: put it in universe
<janimo> and for hardy we'll look again at the archiver apps
<mr_pouit> ok
<janimo> but early in the ccyle
<janimo> anyone care to write a MIR for brasero? :)
<mr_pouit> let's ask on the list ;P
<mr_pouit> that would be great if other people could participate
<janimo> I agree :)
<vinze> What's an MIR?
<mr_pouit> main inclusion request
<vinze> Oh :P
<vinze> OK, I'm off, bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Canonical Desktop Team | 18 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<sfair> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> sfair, pang
<sfair> Seveas: could you change my cloak, please?
<Seveas> sfair, done
<sfair> Seveas: thanks a lot
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-09
<Balkhog> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 09 2007, 03:19:52 - Next meeting: Screencast Team in 1 day
<ziroday> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 09 2007, 10:29:18 - Next meeting: Screencast Team in 1 day
<Zic> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 12:00: Canonical Desktop Team | 18 Sep 15:00: Kernel Team
<Zic> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 14:00: Canonical Desktop Team | 18 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team
<ziroday> @schedule Singapore
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 11 Sep 03:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 23:00: Server Team meeting | 12 Sep 03:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 20:00: Canonical Desktop Team | 18 Sep 23:00: Kernel Team
<soren> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 17:00: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 14:00: Canonical Desktop Team | 18 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-01
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<shadidan> hey
<shadidan> anyone can help me ?
<Rafik> shadidan, on what ?
<shadidan> linux
<shadidan> :S
<Rafik> :)
<shadidan> this  is my first time i work with linux
<Rafik> shadidan, you can find help with ubuntu at the channel #ubuntu, this one is not for support
<shadidan> how can i copy file in the terminal ??
<shadidan> thank u anyway :D
<Rafik> yw
<shadidan> bye
<marli2> hello?
<marli2> heeeeeeeeeeeeeeey
<RainCT> hi marli2
<RainCT> you're not alone in the dark :P
<marli2> im off to bad
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-02
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<amachu> persia: elkbuntu: TheMuso: lifeless: Hi
<amachu> zakame: belutz: ?
<amachu> persia: there?
<amachu> elkbuntu: ?
<amachu> Hello Board!
<amachu> mmm...
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<amachu> TheMuso: Hey :-)
<persia> amachu: Here now.
<amachu> and its time now..
<amachu> persia: hey, we are three now
<elkbuntu> here
<amachu> elkbuntu: gr8!
<amachu> and lifeless? zakame? belutz?
<amachu> it doesn't appear neither of amireldor, huayra, svaksha are here right now :-(
<persia> We definitely need some candidates for a useful meeting :)
<TheMuso> Yeah, people would help.
<elkbuntu> i think we can wait a bit
 * TheMuso reads their wiki pages while waiting.
 * TheMuso thinks people should probably not publish phone numbers on the wiki.
<TheMuso> dd/c
<TheMuso> gah
<persia> TheMuso: Why not?  Some people might like to get a call.
 * persia remembers concerns about privacy when first being listed in the whois DB, and giving up after discovering the number of ways that data could be tracked
<TheMuso> persia: This is true, but thats just me.
<TheMuso> hehe fair enough.
<persia> TheMuso: I'm somewhat sympathetic: I believe all the telephone numbers apparently belonging to me and available over unecrypted connections are currently wrong.
<leoquant> amireldor is considered for ubuntu membership on two meetings?: Asia and Oceania and Europe, and Asia and Oceania ?
<persia> leoquant: At least on the agenda, but has yet to appear before either board.
<leoquant> ok
<TheMuso> /c/c
<TheMuso> my fingers are cold...
<persia> TheMuso: type faster :)
<TheMuso> Yeah that is one option.
<persia> It's midwinter there, right?  How cold does it get?
<stgraber> amireldor has been on our list for quite a long time (months) but never show up at a meeting
<TheMuso> persia: It is late winter/early spspring now.
<TheMuso> I am in a heated room, so that should help eventually.
<leoquant> indeed stgraber several months
<TheMuso> Ok we have one candidate.
<elkbuntu> maybe we should add a 'choose the regional board that best fits your schedule' line?
 * hubuntu is a candidate too
<techno_freak> oops, amachu quit :s
<elkbuntu> hubuntu, which in the list are you?
<hubuntu> huayra
<hubuntu> huayra-the h
 * elkbuntu clicks that wikipage
<persia> hubuntu: You live in Norway, focus on Ecuador, and come to use for your membership application?  You're not a fan of sleep, are you?
<hubuntu> I focus on Ecuador and Norway ;)
<hubuntu> I come to you because I am a fan of sleeping
<persia> Oh, were the European and Americas boards scheduled at a bad time?
<hubuntu> the emea board has not had a meeting for a while and the americas.. well, they have but it's always too late for me ;)
<hubuntu> (3-4am)
<persia> I see.
<hubuntu> it's 1pm here now, so it is quite a good time for me... hope it suits you too ;)
<persia> Oh, it's about as good a time as we can pick, given our selection of timezones.
<persia> So, while we're all reading your wiki page, perhaps you could give us a shorter introduction?
<hubuntu> well indeed
<hubuntu> I have been a GNU/Linux for 10 years, and ubuntu user since hoary came out
<hubuntu> I contribute to documentation, translation, organize events, LP
<hubuntu> I am the contact member for Ubuntu Ecuador
<hubuntu> and work with other projects as well (SpreadUbuntu, CUPIE, Ubuntu Spanish Loco teams workgroup)
<hubuntu> I am at the moment organizing the first ever SFD in Oslo
<hubuntu> and I'm just in love with Ubuntu I guess...
<hubuntu> I'm very excited about Ubuntu and specially interested in its commercial aspect of it as part of the whole ecosystem
<hubuntu> besides that I believe in Software Freedom and that all users should have the availability to use the software in their own terms
<hubuntu> as of now my focus is on contributing more to bugs/answer tracking and the SpreadUbuntu site
<elkbuntu> +1 from me based on loco contact work
<aamachu> Hi team
<aamachu> elkbuntu, is it happening here?
<hubuntu> of course Ubuntu-ec and -no are in focus all the time
<hubuntu> as I am interested in local participation and getting a community around both LoCo teams
<aamachu> persia, there?
<persia> aamachu: Indeed.  Just trying to digest the volume of content.
<aamachu> I got disconnected for a while
<persia> Actually, I'm going to give up: I reached the point where I'd post +1 a while back, and am just being curious at this point :)
<hubuntu> I should have made that page a bit shorter I reckon
<persia> hubuntu: Great work, excellent documentation of that work, and supreme testimonials.
<TheMuso> persia, elkbuntu, agreed. +1 from me also. Some wonderful work here.
<hubuntu> thanks for your work too, I've seen many of you around and your work for the Ubuntu community is great!
<hubuntu> so is that a yes? Doesn't amachu have to vote?
<persia> hubuntu: Indeed: we like to hear from everyone present.
<hubuntu> I have not brought many people here for many reasons but I guess there are people present that have seen me around...
<hubuntu> and can maybe give some testimony of my deeds (all good and not so good are welcome ;)
<hubuntu> hey, meisk
<hubuntu> I work with meisok in ubuntu-es and CUPIE (Ubuntu-classroom and chat in Spanish)
<meisk> yes, I confirm
<meisk> hubuntu: help me all, in various projects
<meisk> (sorry for my bad english..)
<hubuntu> asac is been bothered by me lately regarding network-manager and mbca...
<meisk> hubuntu: creates doc, and work for the spanish comunity
<hubuntu> doc.ubuntu-es.org is the documentation site for the whole Spanish community, run mainly by Ubuntu-es and all other LoCo teams
<TheMuso> aamachu: We are looking over hubuntu's application.
<asac> what application is that? (what meeting is right now?)
<hubuntu> ubuntu membership
<hubuntu> I'm not becoming a MOTU any time soon ;)
<asac> ok. i can ack that hubuntu has been active in the network manager mobile broadband wizard effort recently.
<TheMuso> persia, elkbuntu. Thoughts? Where shall we go from here?
<asac> if he has been around longer in other teams in a similar fashion, then that would make a +1 from me
<persia> amachu: Do you have a working network connection now?
<aamachu> yes.. but its discontinuos
<persia> aamachu: Can you vote on hubuntu?
<asac> (i just read his wiki page and like it :))
<hubuntu> (thanks asac, I haven't read yours but I like your work with nm and ff :)
<aamachu> persia, the connection is discontinuos
<aamachu> i noticed the log, and the wiki of hubuntu
<aamachu> the contributions are commendable
<persia> Any questions?
<TheMuso> no
<hubuntu> please, go ahead if anything should be unclear
<persia> Well, according to the math we discussed last time, we may not need to wait for amachu's vote, but given that amachu is the secretary, it's someone important to have confirmation that the conclusion is agreed.
<persia> Right.  Would anyone else be willing to volunteer as secretary in light of amachu's network issues?
<aamachu> persia, I will ensure a good ISP
<aamachu> :-)
<persia> aamachu: OK.  How do you vote on hubuntu?  May we welcome him as a member?
<amachu> Yes
 * hubuntu is happy :)
<tuxmaniac> aamachu: I recommend/suggest you get a freeshell? In such a scene you wont be msising much discussion
<amachu> I had sent the message, but to be missed again by disconnection
<persia> Excellent.  Are there any other items for discussion this evening?
<hubuntu> thank you... I am an Ecuadorian, living on Norway approved to become an Ubuntu member by the AsiasOceania board
<amachu> tuxmaniac: the power problem in Tamilnadu, i the major cause
<hubuntu> We are truly a global community !
<amachu> I need to have wireless.
<hubuntu> *AsiaOceania
<amachu> persia: others din't turn around?
<persia> amachu: There were four of us tonight.  Three positive votes whilst you were being disconnected.  No other candidates or board members joined.
<amachu> persia: yes. I was referring to candidates registered
<amachu> that being the case
<amachu> we shall wind up the day..
<amachu> persia: there?
<persia> amachu: Usually.
<amachu> amireldor & svaksha there?
<amachu> fine then..
<amachu> We will conclude today's meeting
<TheMuso> sounds good
<amachu> hubuntu: Best wishes! and all the best for Team Eucador..
<hubuntu> Thank you
<persia> hubuntu: congratulations!
<hubuntu> :)
<amachu> Thank you all for participating!
<amachu> Our next meeting will be on 09 Sep 08, 11.00 AM UTC
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
 * nijaba waves
<zul> hi
<sommer> hey all
<mathiaz> good ...insert-your-time-of-day-here... all ! How is everyone doing ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: howdy
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm particularly recharged
<nijaba> kirkland: scotch full?
<zul> too much thistle?
<kirkland> nijaba: ales too :-)
<nijaba> :)
<Koon> o/
<nealmcb> o/
 * jdstrand waves
<mathiaz> allright - let's get this started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<soren> o/
<nijaba> [Meeting started]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<soren> MootBot: Feel free to enter the game any time you find it convenient.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<mathiaz> Last week meeting notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> Last week meeting notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080826
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
<mathiaz> soren: did you upload something new ?
<soren> I did indeed.
<soren> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=vm-builder
<mathiaz> nijaba: did you get a chance to review the new package ?
 * nijaba just started working on the tutorial today.
<mathiaz> nijaba: are you using soren's bzr branch ?
<soren> nijaba: It should be mostly compatible with the old one.
<soren> I have a transition plan for when it's completely compatible.
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes
<nijaba> soren: yep, I'll send you a few notes later on that subject
<soren> Cool.
<mathiaz> sommer: did you get a chance to look at the package also ?
<soren> nijaba: Any regressions from u-v-b to v-b should be considered bugs.
<sommer> mathiaz: not yet, still on the list though
<mathiaz> soren: have you wrote a blog post about your release ?
<nijaba> soren: so far, only finding regression with my intrepid branch
<mathiaz> soren: or advertise the upload somewhat ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: he did on his blog, IIRC
<mathiaz> soren: or you're waiting for the package to get through NEW ?
<soren> mathiaz: I will when it's actually in the archive.
<soren> I've announced stuff before their actual availability before... IRC was no fun for the next few days.
<nijaba> http://warma.dk/blog/article/90/
<mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to write a blog post about vm-builder once it's available in the archive
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide with references to the new ubuntu-vm-builder
<nijaba> there is also going to be a feature in the gss newsletter
<mathiaz> nijaba: awesome
<nijaba> (first edition of a newsletter going out to support customers)
<mathiaz> nijaba: where do you plan to push your tutorial ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: wiki once I have a first valid draft
<nijaba> mathiaz: h.u.c
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - should we also write up something for the UWN ?
<mathiaz> (once it's in the archive)
 * nealmcb cheers
<nijaba> mathiaz: why not, but my to do is a bit full atm, so it may take a bit for me to write it
<nijaba> any volunteers?
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to write a tutorial on vm-builder and put on the help wiki (h.u.c/community)
<nealmcb> I"d think UWN would just want a link to soren's post?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: seems like a good option
<mathiaz> soren: could you ping UWN once you've published your post ?
<soren> mathiaz: How do I do that, exactly?
<nealmcb> but the more posts/viewpoints the better, of course
<mathiaz> boredandblogging: is your man
<soren> (Wow, it took me 5 seconds to type "exactly")
<soren> mathiaz: Ah, right. Will do.
<mathiaz> soren: great !
<mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to ping UWN editor to get a paragraph about vm-builder in UWN
<mathiaz> soren: anything else to report on the vm-builder front ?
<soren> Probably, but I think I'll save that for my blog post. :)
<mathiaz> soren: thanks
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Tomcat6 server stack support
<mathiaz> Koon: thanks for writing the post
<mathiaz> Koon: I've published it on ubuntuserver.w.com
<Koon> np, a couple of nice reactiosn already
<mathiaz> Koon: what's the state of the patches ?
<mathiaz> Koon: it seems most of them have been sponsored
<Koon> the remaining two are the conflictual ones
<Koon> so it's more doko's decision
<Koon> as our java platform master, he dedcides
<mathiaz> Koon: do they pull in a lot of dependencies ?
<Koon> there are two remaining bugs
<Koon> bug 249178 has two aspects
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249178 in ecj "libecj-java shouldn't recommend java2-runtime" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249178
<Koon> one is that it pulls a full java runtime, that needs to be fixed and is undisputed
<Koon> the other is that by recommending libecj-java-gcj you get a full GCJ runtime with it
<mathiaz> Koon: right - I'm more interested by the space it may take on the isos
<Koon> and at the moment it means a few X libraries through a libgcj9-0-awt recommend in libgcj9-0
<mathiaz> Koon: although we have a lot of spaces left on the -server isos, it seemed that there are a lot of deps pulled in
<Koon> the other remaining bug is bug 261847 - this one pulls a lot through a libnss-mdns recommend in openjdk-6-jre-headless
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261847 in openjdk-6 "Installing openjdk-6-jre-headless pulls in dbus/avahi" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261847
<Koon> i'm not really sure what is not already on the server iso though.
<mathiaz> Koon: ok - it's under discussion for now and the right person is involved
<doko> Koon: I'm back, looking at the latter. I'll fix the former as indicated in the bug report
<Koon> doko: great ! thx
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: any news on the apache2 section from jjesse ?
<sommer> mathiaz: haven't heard from him about that section yet
<sommer> I added a  support section though
<sommer> I think it covers what dendrobates wanted, but if not just let me know
<mathiaz> sommer: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ubuntu-support.html ?
<sommer> mathiaz: yep, that's it
<kirkland> i still owe sommer a review of the RAID stuff in there...  i'll get to it this week
<sommer> heh, cool... the ldap sections are all updated for cn=config as well
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to review the RAID section of the server guide
<mathiaz> sommer: I'll take a look at the cn=config stuff
<sommer> mathiaz: great thanks
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide
<sommer> I think that's pretty much all the news from me :)
<mathiaz> sommer: great !
<mathiaz> sections of the server guide that can be reviewed are listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidServerGuide
<mathiaz> and reviews can be made from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/
<mathiaz> sommer: could you update the roadmap mentionning the review work ?
<nealmcb> sommer, is there a section in other ubuntu guides on support?  seems like the story is the same for all editions
<sommer> mathiaz: sure, will do
<nealmcb> except for the lenght of time it is supported
<mathiaz> sommer: so that potential contributors can dive in quickly
<sommer> nealmcb: nope that's a new section
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to specify the review work on the Roadmap
<nealmcb> and e.g. desktop guide doesn't mention it?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: you may wanna ask the ubuntu-doc team about it
 * nealmcb nods
<sommer> nealmcb: ya, it may just have never came up before, or at least the commercial side of things
<mathiaz> nealmcb: the desktop guide is actually used by yelp - so I'm not sure if it would be usefull there
<nealmcb> mathiaz: ?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: hm - it's up to the desktop guide author - I think the ubuntu-doc team is the best ressource to ask
<mathiaz> let's move on.
 * nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] # Server survey: official server online, call for volunteers for a last test and to prepare annoucement.
<mathiaz> nijaba: ^ ?
<nijaba> IS has finally provided us with a host for the server survey! \o/
<nijaba> I should have a RC of the survey by the end of the week
<nijaba> I would need some volunteers to check that everything is fine before the launch and start the announce as planned on the wiki.
<nijaba> I think a good launch date could be mon sept 22nd.
 * sommer volunteers
<mathiaz> nijaba: great ! I think owh was interested in that
<mathiaz> nijaba: you may wanna get back to him
<mathiaz> nijaba: should volunteer just email you ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - anything else on this subject ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: not unless someone has something to add
<mathiaz> nijaba: did you add some questions to the survey ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: or the questions are the same as the ones back in may ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes I did add the question from Redmonk, our partner, still waiting for something from Intel
<nijaba> but the survey will not be delayed further waiting for this
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok. Thanks.
<mathiaz> let's move on to review the Roadmap
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap#Documentor%20corner
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] UFW Package Integration
<mathiaz> jdstrand: what's the state ?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: it seems that things are moving well - most of the packages have been updated
<jdstrand> ufw was uploaded before feature freeze
 * nijaba hugs didrocks and nxvl for their work - awesome
<jdstrand> also, thanks to didrocks and nxvl, all packages from the server tasksel list have been updated
<jdstrand> and uploaded before FF
<mathiaz> jdstrand: great - so I guess that's we're done for this cycle on the package integration front
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ie we're not trying to add support for ufw to more packages
<jdstrand> mathiaz: mostly-- there I a couple bugs to fix, but they are not FF dependent
<jdstrand> s/I/are/
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ok - is there anything to be done on the documentation front ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: integration with ufw is a feature or a bug?
<mathiaz> nijaba: a feature
<nijaba> if the former, then we are stuck, right
<jdstrand> but, yeah, we are in good shape. I think didrocks is planning on working on squid and postgresql
<jdstrand> nijaba: I have been considering it a feature-- but at this point it is no more that a Suggests and a file dropped in /etc/ufw/applications.d
<jdstrand> nijaba: caused I started using dpkg triggers. so additional packages could probably get an easy FFe
<mathiaz> jdstrand: is the content of the server guide up-to-date ?
<nijaba> jdstrand: cool to know. so we may get a few addt'l packages before release
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I notice there is a section about "ufw Application integration"
<nijaba> Koon: did you add the definition for ufw in Tomcat?
<jdstrand> nijaba: if you want to add some suggested packages to ServerTeam/Roadmap#UFW Package Integration, then maybe people will pick them up. I'd be happy to sponsor them
<Koon> nijaba: no
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I haven't reviewed it, but sommer and I talked about it some last week
<nijaba> jdstrand: adding Tomcat then ;)
<sommer> jdstrand: mathiaz: yep, I made a few adjustments based on our discussion
<mathiaz> sommer: great ! :)
<mathiaz> anything else to add wrt to ufw ?
<jdstrand> sommer: can you point me to it? I added a new option with the dpkg triggers changes, but it likely won't change anything you've done
<jdstrand> mathiaz: as always, test and report bugs :)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/firewall.html
<sommer> jdstrand: ^^ yep
<jdstrand> cool
<mathiaz> jdstrand: are you planning to do a review of the section ?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> [ACTION] jdstrand to review the firewall section of the ubuntu server guide
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion.
 * nijaba added tomcat and libvirt to the ufw package integration list
<jdstrand> nijaba: hmm, libvirt will be hard cause of nat...
<mathiaz> As you know, we're passed FeatureFreeze now - so we're shifting our efforts on bug fixing
<mathiaz> and testing
<jdstrand> nijaba: soren and I have had some discussions about it, but I haven't come up with something good yet
<mathiaz> alpha5 is also scheduled for thursday
<nijaba> jdstrand: ok, I guess you are the best judge.
<nijaba> but that would be very nice
<mathiaz> so iso testing will be done in the next two days
<jdstrand> oh I agree, but the ufw command doesn't do nat yet at all
<nijaba> specially if that can be done at the same time kirkland's meta packages get in
<nijaba> I would call for a ****group hug of mathiaz****, whom has been shaken a bit lately on ubuntu-devel.  It was way too hard for all the good work that was put to it.
 * kirkland hugs
 * nijaba hugs mathiaz
<jdstrand> nijaba: for nat and other fancy stuff, need to update /etc/ufw/*rules manually, there *may* be an improvement on that front, if the gui-ufw folks have anything to say about it
 * Koon hugs mathiaz
 * zul hugs mathiaz 
 * sommer also gives matiaz a big hug
 * jdstrand gives mathiaz a big hug
 * nealmcb hugs mathiaz and neilw for moving things forward on the rubygems front
<mathiaz> thanks guys ! :)
<nijaba> yes, neilw deserves a hug as well!
<mathiaz> anything else ?
 * nealmcb wonders about mail and spam stuff - updates from scottk?
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubottu> Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting
<mathiaz> nealmcb: it seems that all of the MIR have been written
<mathiaz> nealmcb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavSpamassassinInMain
<nealmcb> :)
<nijaba> \o/
<mathiaz> sommer: wrote most of them
 * nealmcb hugs sommer
 * nijaba too
 * nealmcb sends props to scottk
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time ?
<sommer> oh ya, that project should be good
<nijaba> +1
<Koon> wfm
<sommer> me too :)
<mathiaz> exzellentes - see ya all next week - don't forget iso testing of alpha5 images !
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<nijaba> thanks for another great meeting mathiaz
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
<thorwil> dholbach: hi there! i will see to be here for the CC. instead of going to bed when i should :)
<dholbach> thorwil: in a session right now, sorry
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<sabdfl> evening all
<sabdfl> CC meeting now in progress
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<sabdfl> who's here? i see elmo ;-)
<elmo> we seem a bit light on CC people
<thorwil> word
<elmo> the only other one I can even see on IRC is mdke, I've pinged him
<sabdfl> you and i are total heavyweight's, though ;-)
<thorwil> well, my agenda item comes down to a question to you, sabdfl. brought it here as one can say it is about process ;)
<sabdfl> let's hear it then
<thorwil> sabdfl: from the talk page: the central question is: Will sabdfl be ready to approve, modify or criticise such guidelines? If not, what is seen as the problem with this proposal?
<sabdfl> it's a good proposal
<thorwil> thanks
<sabdfl> we've already approved the idea that there should be at least two, completely / largely community-designed themes in default ubuntu
<sabdfl> i reserve the right to have a strong hand in selecting those
<sabdfl> but would be delighted to see a community-owned process defining them
<sabdfl> as to the default
<sabdfl> i would like to see community participation in that
<thorwil> work is in progress, but i do have some problems with strategic goals and audience, as neither gerry carr nor kenneth can help me there
<sabdfl> in the past, i've spent a lot of energy trying to setup tools for icon management, for example
<sabdfl> to get participation
<sabdfl> we are in the process of hiring a lead designer
<sabdfl> and i will look to that person to define the look and feel of the default theme
<sabdfl> community participation in *extending* that theme will be welcomed
<sabdfl> and community participation / leadership / definition of the other two themes is welcomed too
<sabdfl> does that help?
<thorwil> kinda
<sabdfl> in terms of audience, i think we have to aim for young professionals who are web-savvy
<thorwil> now that is helpful
<thorwil> is there more in the realm of strategic goals for ubuntu that you could tell me about?
<thorwil> things that are not clear from the philisophy?
<thorwil> sabdfl: and suppose i and anyone whi might help me do a really good job with these guidelines, would you given them your official blessing?
<thorwil> i think it would be important to give it extra weight in the artwork community
<thorwil> while actually have the default presentation in mind, all this should be as good for an also ran
<sabdfl> if we are ambitious, we want to serve all human beings
<sabdfl> right?
<sabdfl> can't let apple have all the fun ;-)
<sabdfl> so, the only reason i focused on young web-savvy professionals is they will be the standard-bearers for taking ubuntu to a wider audience
<sabdfl> and they are probably attracted to particular ideas in design
<sabdfl> like the iphone used web 2.0 ideas
<thorwil> sabdfl: troy sobotka will be delighted. he haas been talking about aiming at designers and young professionals
<thorwil> well, i guess i will see if i can define my skeleton guidleines enough to pusblish them to the artwork community. and also have to see if it can be aligned with the icon theme project Cory K. just started
<thorwil> thanks and good night!
<sabdfl> yw!
<sabdfl> elmo: aob?
<elmo> not that I'm aware of
<sabdfl> thorwil: good luck and I hope your mission is a success!
<thorwil> thanks!
<sabdfl> i wouldn't describe anything on the CD as an also-ran, btw ;-)
<sabdfl> ok, thanks folks
<elmo> shortest actually CC meeting evar
 * mdke cheers
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-03
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<ma10> @now rome
<ubottu> Current time in Europe/Rome: September 03 2008, 12:35:57 - Next meeting: Server Team in 6 days
<RG3rY> hi
<RG3rY> can i ask here a technical question about nvidia install on ubuntu ?
<persia> RG3rY: Yes, but nobody will answer you here.  Depending on the nature of your question, you may want one of #ubuntu, #ubuntu+1, or #ubuntu-devel.
<RG3rY> thanks
<RG3rY> im on it
<RG3rY> good day
<calc> hi
<cjwatson> good afternoon
<ArneGoetje> hi
<liw> greetingses
<james_w> hi all
<cjwatson> could somebody chair this for me until this call is finished, please?
<cjwatson> I sent out the agenda
<cjwatson> I haven't yet reviewed the fstab change in ubiquity, so unless evand's done that, that's carried over again :(
<evand> negative
<bryce> hi
<asac> hi
<liw> does it matter who chairs?
<asac> liw: lets do a shared chair then ;)
<cjwatson> not as long as you keep it moving :)
<asac> who is supposed to be here?
<asac> slangasek: doko: there?
<calc> everyone but ogra i think
<slangasek> 'morning
<cjwatson> TheMuso?
<doko> hi
<ogra> .oO(that odesnt mean i'm not lurking though :) )
<liw> themuso and slangasek missing
 * calc points at slangasek saying 'morning
<asac> liw: s/slangasek//
<cjwatson> oh, TheMuso is on holiday
<cjwatson> let's start then
<liw> oh yes
<liw> #startmeeting
<cjwatson> recent experience suggests mootbot is not terribly alive atm
<liw> first on the agenda: outstanding actions, carried over from previous meeting
<liw> ArneGoetje, "Arne to email ubuntu-devel@ or distro-team@ if still stuck with language-selector PyGTK needs, by end of week."
<ArneGoetje> liw: solved already
<liw> and Colin and Evan confirmed that the /etc/fstab change (whatever it was...) is not yet done, so carried over
<liw> next: "Outstanding feature freeze exceptions from last week"
<cjwatson> oh, let me find a list of that
<cjwatson> I spewed it into the release team meeting last Friday
<cjwatson> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/29/%23ubuntu-meeting.html search for "new pulseaudio" for the start
<liw> 17:32	cjwatson	 * new pulseaudio to match new alsa and new kernel
<liw> 17:32	cjwatson	* experimental python 3 packages (not by default, maybe not really FFe)
<liw> 17:32	cjwatson	* system-cleaner (tonight, I'm told)
<liw> 17:32	cjwatson	* usb-installer-images (ditto)
<liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* dvd-performance-hacks (ditto)
<liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* timezone map changes for ubiquity
<liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* openoffice.org 3 (again, not by default, parallel-installable)
<liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* xorg-options-editor needs promotion to main I think
<liw> just for the record...
<liw> pulseaudio would be TheMuso's territory, yes? anyone know that status?
<liw> doko, python3?
<cjwatson> python 3 has been controversial on distro-team@, though I only just noticed that thread today
<liw> system-cleaner is waiting in REVU (I guess I should active find someone to review/sponsor it)
<liw> evand, is usb-installer-images you?
<evand> liw: ja
<evand> it's through NEW, thanks to cjwatson
<doko> liw: well, lets address this on the distro list; I personally would like to see this (at least) in universe
<cjwatson> system-cleaner> please do, there should be plenty of people who can
<cjwatson> I just accepted usb-creator from NEW about ten minutes ago
<liw> dvd-performance-hacks and timezone map changes I have no idea about whom to ask
<liw> openoffice.or 3 is calc, surely?
<liw> xorg-options-editor is bryce?
<calc> yes
<liw> (am I going too fast?)
<bryce> done
<calc> openoffice.org is still waiting to release rc1, hopefully this week finally, then i will get the parallel installable debs into intrepid
<bryce> I filed both MIR's last week (thanks for the reminder colin)
<cjwatson> dvd-performance-hacks/timezone> evand
<cjwatson> calc: I asked for this to go ahead with the beta; assuming that the rc1 is delayed semi-indefinitely, do we need to wait for it?
<calc> cjwatson: for the languages it would be useful, yes
<cjwatson> usb-creator will still need MIR review and such
<evand> dvd-performance-hacks is in ubiquity (though w/o triggers), the timezone stuff I'm going to have to defer as the weekend was spent entirely on the usb installer.
<calc> cjwatson: beta2 just ships en-us
<cjwatson> calc: ack, though we could get some initial testing
<evand> cjwatson: noted
<calc> cjwatson: they seem fairly confident about releasing rc1 (whether or not its ready i think) this week so it shouldn't be much of an issue
<cjwatson> s/confident/determined/ ? :-)
<calc> yea perhaps determined is a better word ;-)
<cjwatson> "it doesn't build, ship it"
<calc> yep :)
<cjwatson> ok, so the FFe focus for this week seems to be: system-cleaner, usb-creator, dvd-performance-hacks triggers, xorg-options-editor
<liw> anyone know about pulseaudio?
<cjwatson> we'll have to check that with Luke when he gets back, I think; it sounds as if nobody here does. I believe it's essentially an upstream update that's been needed for quite a few reasons but was blocked on new alsa
<asac> cjwatson: the mobile broadband wizard and DB needs a FFe ack i think... its sitting in NEW as well
<asac> its #263668
<cjwatson> mobile-broadband-provider-info?
<asac> yes + libmbca
<asac> cjwatson: like in the bug
<asac> once its in I'll draft the MIR so we can build against that.
<cjwatson> I think it can go into universe safely, so I'll process it after this meeting and we can look at it from there
<cjwatson> (this call seems not to be happening, hence attention ...)
<liw> anything else about FFes?
<evand> I believe Agostino Russo is going to apply for one for Wubi
<evand> But he wanted some time to further develop before he makes a decision on whether or not to approach the release team with it.
<cjwatson> do you know what the planned changes there are?
<evand> a complete redesign :/.  It's taking the current code and rewriting it in something not-NSIS.
<evand> In this case, python and bindings to MFC, if I recall correctly.
<liw> anything else about FFes or shall we continue to the next topic?
<cjwatson> which is a good idea in general, but perhaps we should arrange for custom CD images with a wubi branch on them so that we can test that before merging
<cjwatson> (NSIS has been a pain in the neck)
<cjwatson> let's continue
<liw> next topic: Milestoned/targeted bugs
<evand> indeed, noted
 * calc pushing his milestoned bugs back to the next release
<cjwatson> links to milestoned/targeted bugs?
<slangasek> milestoned for alpha-5: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1323
<cjwatson> thanks
<slangasek> none of which belong to anyone here, unless someone wants to try tackling #252174
<slangasek> (262539 is specifically going to be deferred, as soon as I errata it)
<cjwatson> nothing for us there, though I think we should ask for 262539 to be in place by alpha-5
<cjwatson> hm, really?
<cjwatson> it seemed like a simple userspace fix
<bryce> wow, amazingly few milestone bugs
<slangasek> oh, is it?
<slangasek> sorry, I assumed it was bound up to the kernel ABI changes and that it wasn't an issue for pristine installs with alpha-5
<cjwatson> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid-lrm.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a1611ef0f30469da0353d438d1a71a326eb3ca9
<slangasek> ok, will ping the kernel team after the meeting
<cjwatson> though I think you're right that it isn't an issue for pristine installs
<cjwatson> how about targeted bugs? we're getting to the point where we should be aggressively getting those out of the way
<slangasek> anyway, there are other bugs besides the milestoned ones that we should be looking at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<cjwatson> critical for us are 247376 fglrx (blocked on upstream), and 261847 openjdk (which I believe doko's looking at)
<cjwatson> several firefox/xulrunner high
<pitti> milestone bugs> that URL above is weird, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-alpha-5 has a lot more bugs
<doko> yes, had given the gcc update priority. will be fixed before the alpha. local builds are running
<asac> well ... the IO thing is something not trivial to fix
<slangasek> 185311, still some xcb locking concerns?
<asac> the background image thing should work though
<slangasek> pitti: anyone can set a milestone for a bug, the URL above are the milestone-critical ones
<pitti> slangasek: ah, thanks
<cjwatson> and OOo, libxcb (that assertion failure again?), an LVM failure I still need to track down, some X driver issues, an n-m crash, oem-config/Kubuntu
<asac> actually i thought the background image thing was fix committed
<slangasek> asac: an easy bug report to resolve, then ;)
<asac> slangasek: yeah ;)
<asac> ah. i think the idea was to get that committed upstream and let that sink down to us.
<bryce> slangasek: I'll take a look.  Last I heard, the java changes pretty much took care of the remaining known xcb issues
<liw> anything else about bugs?
<bryce> slangasek: also I talked with Bart about the status of the rearchitecting work monday, and he said it's not looking like it will hit in the near term
<cjwatson> calc: bug 224469 seems to be in a slightly indeterminate state; is it fixed in intrepid or not?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224469 in openoffice.org "[upstream] [hardy] openoffice complains that jre is not present or is broken. It is actually present and unbroken." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224469
<calc> cjwatson: i can't reproduce it any longer after some fixes went in but apparently some users can still
<cjwatson> ok, please update the bug to say that
<calc> hmm actually i must be thinking of another bug, just reread the description
<calc> yes this one should be fixed afaict
<calc> i just forgot to mark it as fix released for intrepid yet
<calc> it was uploaded to hardy then copied over to intrepid
<cjwatson> ok, please sync it up, then
<cjwatson> right, we should move on from bugs
<liw> next topic: Sponsorship queue
<cjwatson> I've done my hour this week ;-)
<cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<liw> I can't sponsor...
<cjwatson> people without upload privileges are excused
<slangasek> heh :-)
<asac> my list should be zero (well except swfdec that needs FFe)
<cjwatson> so, of the uploaders, who has done sponsoring this week?
<calc> i have one that was assigned yesterday apparently will get to it this week
<slangasek> not me, this is day one of my week ;)
<asac> i even sponsored two that werent on my list ;)
<cjwatson> I've done usbutils, ichthux-default-settings, cobex, showfsck, anacron, mplayer
<evand> I unfortunately have not found time for it with the FF, but will endeavor to today.
<slangasek> linux-wlan-ng is mine to resolve, though unfortunately it's an upstream merge from the beginning of the cycle that never got done, so the resolution may well be "postponed" once I've looked at it
<ogra> slangasek, i might pester you about a moodle FFe ...
<ogra> but not right now/yet
<liw> any other people doing/not doing sponsoring?
<liw> if not... the next topic would be "Any business from activity reports"
<cjwatson> ok, well consider this a reminder to help clear out the sponsorship queue for next week; I'll be going around and asking people :)
<cjwatson> call done, I have the activity reports, one moment while I scan
<cjwatson> missing reports from bryce, doko
<asac> on this front: personallly, i dont think that the new way of doing activity reports is an improvement. i would really like to read what people did last week _before_ the meeting.
<asac> what do others think?
<bryce> oh shoot, forgot to send.  cjwatson I'll get that to you shortly
<cjwatson> maybe we should ask for distro-activity
<cjwatson> I really appreciate the new readable distro-team
<doko> cjwatson: hmm, ok. this is a one day report: email catchup, gcc fix
<liw> an opt-in distro-activity would be fine, I think
<bryce> (was off yesterday and just plumb forgot)
<cjwatson> doko: oh, of course you were off. never mind then
<asac> cjwatson: i appreciate the new summaries too. but i think that getting the team-colleagues reports _before_ the meeting allows us to discuss things/news while they are still new
<cjwatson> ok, I'll pass that idea around then
<asac> but maybe thats not a practical issue. if noone else feels the same, then i can certainly step back on this point :)
<pitti> why can't we still use distro-team@ to discuss stuff before the meeting? these could become separate mails, instead of being buried in reports
<cjwatson> I suggest distro-activity with enforced reply-to: distro-team
<cjwatson> distro-team was really, really noisy. I just didn't read it
<cjwatson> which I think is bad
<asac> cjwatson: ack from me. reply-to @distro-team
<asac> with an opt-in distro-activity list
<cjwatson> (no business from activity reports that I can see, btw)
<asac> (or maybe even foundations-activity ... which is at least mandatory to read for foundations team members?)
<liw> next topic would be "Any other business"
<calc> 2m left :)
<cjwatson> asac: list explosion :)
<liw> more mandatory mail to be read is unlikely to be successful in communicating things
<liw> no other business? can we end the meeting on time? :)
<cjwatson> sounds like it
<liw> #endmeeting
<asac> liw: true. thats why i said: if there is noone actually feeling the same way then we dont even need distro-activity
<liw> (that doesn't have anywhere near the satisfaction you get from a fifteen pound gavel)
<james_w> thanks all
<asac> thanks
<evand> thanks
<slangasek> cheers
<liw> gracias
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<cjwatson> asac: I definitely see the usefulness of having an opportunity for discussion
<liw> what are we doing for minutes this time? (this quarter?) I forgot
<calc> thanks
<liw> cjwatson, will you do the minutes?
<bryce> thanks
<cjwatson> liw: yes
 * stgraber waves
<LaserJock> hi stgraber
<heno_> Hello everyone!
<bdmurray> howdy
<pedro_> hey hey
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<persia> \o
<heno_> got bot? I wonder
<heno_> #startmeeting
<heno_> nope :(
<heno_> the agenda is here as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<ara> hello everyone
<sbeattie> hey
<heno_> [TOPIC] Regression tracking guidelines and web page prototype.
<heno_> sbeattie: can you give a summary/update?
<sbeattie> Um, sure.
<sbeattie> This is an overview https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RegressionTracking
<LaserJock> so is there any plan on how we're going to deal with and/or triage regression bugs?
<sbeattie> We'd like to track 3 things, potential regressions in the devel version (e.g. intrepid), regressions between released versions (e.g. gutsy -> hardy), and regressions in updated versions (e.g. hardy -> hardy-updates)
<LaserJock> I can just imagine a flood of bugs
<sbeattie> Sort of, I was envisioning web pages to track all of the different tags
<heno_> The plan is to first get a better overview of where we are regressing so we can a) minimise that and b) release note better where we cannot fix
<heno_> It's not a campaign to collect more bugs as such :)
<LaserJock> heno_: so, sorry to be predictable, what about Universe in this?
<sbeattie> Plus perhaps another script that looks for untagged bugs that mention regression.
<LaserJock> heno_: no, but once you say "we're trying to find out about regressions" you're going to get a lot of people filing regression bugs for every feature that changes
<sbeattie> Universe included, I don't see why it would be different
 * persia likes the idea of a campaign to collect more bugs: more feedback means better understanding of how to improve
<ara> sbeattie: adding a task in the release notes project, as soon as we discover a potential regression... could it be possible that we add a release note of a regression not happening
<heno_> LaserJock: does that need a different process? I would think a regression between releases would be the same in main and universe
<LaserJock> sbeattie: because it'd perhaps be hard to write release notes if Universe bugs outnumber Main by a lot
<ScottK> persia: I think there would be more incentive if there was less closing of bugs not yet fixed.
<persia> LaserJock: We might have a lot of wontfix bugs, but that's still useful for later bug filers.
<persia> ScottK: That too.
<persia> (but unrelated)
<ScottK> persia: I think it's related to the odds of success of such a campaign.
<LaserJock> heno_: no, not different processes.
<heno_> LaserJock: good point - have universe issues been release noted in any way in the past?
<LaserJock> heno_: not that I know of
<persia> There've been a few cases where release notes mentioned something of especial interest in universe, but it's not common, except for parts of universe that constitute the universe flavours.
<LaserJock> I'm also slightly concerned about lots of stats without any developer effort to back them up, if that makes sense
<heno_> LaserJock: hm, ok. should we encourage that to be started?
<LaserJock> heno_: I'm not exactly sure. I have no idea how it'd be even written
<sbeattie> ara: I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but I could see release notes worthy stuff that aren't regressions being added to the release-notes project; that's more a question for slangasek
<heno_> LaserJock: the idea is to use the metrics to inform and focus devel effort
<LaserJock> heno_: right, but I think it's important to make sure that actually happens
<heno_> does anyone have ideas for other fields in the regression data template?
<LaserJock> I love stats, don't get me wrong. I'm a scientist and I live on data
<LaserJock> :-)
<heno_> I'm a theoretical scientist so I'm not as worried about data ;)
<sbeattie> LaserJock: Heh. With actual evidence rather than hand-waving it can become easier to convince people of the need to take action.
<LaserJock> but I think the QA team can get a bunch of stats without any connection to actual development efforts
<LaserJock> so then users see all these stats and developers not working on them and get upset
<LaserJock> i.e. OMG, look at all those regression bugs!!!!
<heno_> status.qa.ubuntu.com is an example of how we can use bug data to target the fixing work
<LaserJock> so while I think it's a great thing to have, we might want to think about recommendations for ubuntu-devel
<heno_> in what sense?
<heno_> do you envision objections to using these tags?
<LaserJock> things like "heah, we've noticed X number of regression bugs in package Y, you guys might want to get on that" :-)
<LaserJock> no, I doubt there will be objections
<heno_> and they would be right
<sbeattie> LaserJock: I think you're correct to point out that we, as the QA team, need to be advocates for our users to the developers based on the stats we collect.
<heno_> ok, please add further comments and ideas to the wiki page
<heno_> moving on
<LaserJock> sbeattie: I'd go further and say that we are a *part* of the development team and should drive QA within Ubuntu development
<heno_> [TOPIC]: QA server setup - who is setting up what services
<heno_> Brian has agreed to coordinate placement of services on the server, URLS, etc
<heno_> several people here are already moving stuff there
<heno_> can we get a brief overview from each?
<heno_> ara, bdmurray, sbeattie, ogasawara? others?
<bdmurray> I've setup a new bug stats database using postgres and storm on the server
<LaserJock> heno_: this is on the new server in the DC?
<ara> I just got instructions from bdmurray on the access permissions. I will be adding the automated tests starts there
<heno_> LaserJock: yes
<bdmurray> I need to import data from p.u.c and then move graph generation to the new server
<ogasawara> I haven't officially moved anything over - but could migrate all the pkg-stat, weather report, kernel bug lists, etc over
<heno_> dhobach plans to move harvest there as well
<heno_> so anyone wishing to migrate stuff there, please coordinate with bdmurray
<LaserJock> does that server use the *.qa.ubuntu.com ?
<LaserJock> s/the//
<heno_> yes, except some drupal things will stay on the old server for some time
<bdmurray> like brainstorm and the isotracker right?
<heno_> this one is PHP-free
<heno_> bdmurray: right
<LaserJock> right, but in terms of URL they're all going to use qa.ubuntu.com
<heno_> brainstorm will always remain PHP afaik, and is really not related to QA much anymore
<bdmurray> LaserJock: Correct, just not *
<heno_> LaserJock: right
<LaserJock> k
<heno_> next
<heno_> [TOPIC]: Alpha 5 ISO testing
<heno_> images are appearing now and we need testing help!
<heno_> Who has working spare HW or VMs ATM?
<heno_> I have troble with vbox here ATM
<ara> I am downloading now alternate i386 and will give it a try tomorrow. I will run also the automated tests
<ogasawara> heno_:  I've got a spare system I can run some tests on
<heno_> unfortunately davmor2 who normally does a lot of testing is away this weel
<sbeattie> vbox hosted on hardy?
<heno_> sbeattie: right, and intrepid as well
<heno_> I'll try kvm later though
<schwuk> heno_: I've been playing with mvo's sandbox kvm scripts, so my vm's are working
<LaserJock>  * I just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Services to list our hosts/services. Please fill in when you get a chance
<heno_> schwuk: excellent. do you have admin access to the iso tracker btw? to help coordinate
<schwuk> heno_: let me check
<persia> LaserJock: On that page: what about services hosted by Canonical but not on qa.ubuntu.com?
<heno_> if not I or stgraber can help set that up
 * persia is thinking of things like the conflictschecker
<LaserJock> persia: I was gonna put that under "hosted elsewhere"
<LaserJock> but I guess that's a good point
<heno_> Ideally we should move those over
<LaserJock> heno_: that's what I was thinking
<heno_> persia: are you interested in running the conflict checker?
<heno_> now being open sourced btw
<persia> heno_: All of them?  There's quite a few, and for some things (like most of the contents of p.u.c/~ubuntu-archive), there are lots of external scripts depending on the location.
<schwuk> heno_: How can I tell if I have admin access?
<persia> heno_: Yes, but my plate is far to full to accept anything new right now.
<heno_> ok
<ara> what is conflict checker used for?
<heno_> schwuk: you should be able to add builds
<heno_> ara: check for file conflicts in packages
<persia> ara: It checks for files that conflict between packages that don't declare the conflict properly, for all possible upgrade paths.  That way, it identifies issues users will encounter before the users encounter them.
<schwuk> heno_: In that case I suspect not - nothing like that is jumping out.
<sbeattie> schwuk: there should be an Adminstration box in the left column.
<ara> heno_, persia: thanks
<heno_> bdmurray, pedro_, sbeattie do you have hw/VMs and time to test a bit?
<sbeattie> heno_: yes, I can help out.
<heno_> we won't aim for full coverage for the alpha but absolutely need that for Beta
<bdmurray> I've no vm's but could test with my laptop I believe
<pedro_> heno_: yep I'll do some, it will be slow since I'm using an old laptop atm but i can help anyways ;-)
<heno_> ok, cool we should have decent coverage then
<heno_> thanks folks!
<heno_> [TOPIC]: http://status.qa.ubuntu.com - just an fyi
 * heno_ cheers ogasawara, stgraber and bdmurray for this work!
<ogasawara> yup, just wanted to make an announcement here that the pkg stat pages have been pushed to production
<heno_> new we just need to start pimping it :)
<ogasawara> I can make a more formal announcement to the ml
<schwuk> sbeattie: there isn't. heno_ could you fix my permissions please?
<heno_> ogasawara: excellent, please do. -devel and -qa
 * ara hugs ogasawara, stgraber, bdmurray
<heno_> schwuk: sure, after the meeting
<schwuk> well done ogasawara, stgraber and bdmurray. They look good.
<heno_> I'm sure we'll tweak the look and content as we go
<heno_> the LP pages may also adopt some of this info with time
<heno_> in which case we may need to revisit our offering
<heno_> [TOPIC]: Posting meeting summaries on the QA blog (as the server team does).
<heno_> Someone mentioned this would be a good idea
<heno_> other teams may adopt this as well
<LaserJock> I would personally rather have individuals blog about things
<LaserJock> but meeting summaries should be going to mailing lists for sure
<heno_> mailings lists> agree
<persia> Actually, I'd like to argue against such double posting.
<LaserJock> persia: in what way?
<persia> I personally find it annoying to have to skip the server team minutes in one forum or another depending on which I encountered first.
<heno_> I think meeting summaries and announcements are appropriate for a team blog though
<persia> Then they oughtn't be on the mailing list.  I just object to the duplication.
<schwuk> heno_: +1
<schwuk> persia: people read in different places - just because you monitor both doesn't mean everyone will.
<heno_> persia: but may people don't read both
<persia> OK.  Let me put this differently then.
<persia> If we want to have an effective means of communication with people, we should direct them to some resource from which they can expect to get e.g. meeting summaries and announcements.
<persia> Having multiple places where this information is presented is inherently confusing.
<LaserJock> persia: agreed
<persia> Some people may prefer one or the other, but there's no reason one can't provide RSS of a mailing list, or receive a blog in one's inbox.
<LaserJock> I personally dislike that the Server Team puts the log on Planet, it just seems inappropriate
<schwuk> LaserJock: Why? It's Ubuntu related.
<LaserJock> schwuk: because it's against Planet Ubuntu's stated purpose
<LaserJock> and makes it hard to find the stuff that it *is* supposed to have
<heno_> perhaps we should have a team planet where such things go
<bdmurray> LaserJock: where is this stated purpose?
<LaserJock> bdmurray: on http://planet.ubuntu.com
<heno_> then you could get all announcements and summaries there
<bdmurray> Is the QA Team not a contributor?
<schwuk> "Planet Ubuntu is a window into the world, work and lives of Ubuntu developers and contributors."
<persia> heno_: Do you mean like the stated purpose of the fridge?
<LaserJock> why not put announcements and summaries where they go?
<persia> bdmurray: No, the QA Team is a Team.
<schwuk> Meeting minutes seem to fit the bill there LaserJock.
<pedro_> do you mean persons and not projects ?
<LaserJock> and let Planet Ubuntu do what it's supposed to, aggregate individual blogs
<pedro_> so you should move all the projects blogs to somewhere else then
<bdmurray> So if were to blog about the pkg landing page who should do it? me? ogasawara? stgraber?
<heno_> it provides an insight into our work
<LaserJock> pedro_: +1 to that
<bdmurray> It was a team effort
<pedro_> well the GNOME project does that planet.gnome.org/news <-
<heno_> persia: I agree that would be more appropriate actually
<pedro_> and i think nobody visit that page
<heno_> can we teach the fridge to aggregate team blogs as well as atricles?
<LaserJock> bdmurray: anybody/everybody
<heno_> *articles
<LaserJock> bdmurray: you can individually talk about the stuff you want even
<persia> heno_: I'll admit that much of the info on the fridge is duplicate to info in my mailing lists, but I'm less bothered by that, if only because I expect the fridge to have such summaries.
<LaserJock> heno_: teams can just submit a story for inclusion in Planet
<persia> heno_: Very likely.  Contact ubuntu-news-team@ I've yet to have a request not posted relatively quickly.
<heno_> ok, I'll check in with other team leads and fridge editors
<LaserJock> Fridge editors want more stuff to put up
<heno_> it would be easier if we had a simple technical gateway so we could post post directly
<heno_> but I dream :)
<LaserJock> heno_: agreed
<heno_> any other business?
<stgraber> sorry, I wasn't around for the last few minutes :(
<stgraber> bdmurray: having something on the fridge seems to be a good idea, we can still individually blog about it
<heno_> (so we'll not blog meeting summaries for now)
<LaserJock> what about a Testing Day?
<LaserJock> I totally dropped the ball on sending an email to ubuntu-qa last week, sorry :(
<persia> Thanks.  Apologies for the noise about it, it's just one of my pet peeves with the server team, and I actually care more about reading the QA summaries as I'm often not awake for the meeting.
<heno_> today would be a great testing day! :)
<LaserJock> heno_: are available to support a testing day?
<heno_> LaserJock: do you want to try to organise something for next week?
<LaserJock> bah, *are people available
<ara> I think that someone should be the person in charge of this and try to coordinate efforts
<ara> ping people to add the information to their blogs, create wiki pages, etc.
<LaserJock> heno_: I'd personally rather somebody closer to ISO testing were organizing it
<heno_> agreed - I have limited bandwidth atm though
<heno_> stgraber, sbeattie, schwuk, ara: ^ volunteers?
<LaserJock> the thing I'm kind of most concerned about is making sure that the release team is coordinated with
<ara> I could do it, maybe for the beta?
<LaserJock> when I've done ISO testing before a lot of the time the candidates were invalidated before I even got them downloaded
<schwuk> LaserJock: when were you thinking for?
<ara> or is it too late? alpha 6 maybe?
<LaserJock> it's critical for gaining testing contributors that we don't waste their time
<heno_> LaserJock: that's an inherent problem with the process unfortunately
<LaserJock> heno_: perhaps, but maybe we can do some stuff about that
<heno_> ara: I think we should start with alpha 6
<heno_> so we can work out the kinks for beta
<heno_> ara: thanks for stepping up!
<LaserJock> I think we should plan a Testing Day for *every* alpha, Beta, RC until Intrepid is released
<heno_> LaserJock: agreed
<LaserJock> we don't have to make a huge deal over it, just blog it, announce it to ubuntu-devel-announce perhaps, and make sure people are around to help
<LaserJock> it sets us up well for Intrepid+1
<heno_> ara: you may want to take advice from dholbach who coordinated the bug jam
<ara> heno_: ok, i will
<LaserJock> one thing I've been thinking about is not throwing away results when an ISO is invalidated
<ara> monday sep 22nd? it is a couple of days after the alpha, so at least we should know that the minimum test passes
<schwuk> ara: let me know if you need any help with organising it
<LaserJock> can we let people continue testing whatever .iso they manage to get and add that information somehow to the total testing?
<heno_> LaserJock: we had that feature on the tracker before but it's gone missing :(
<heno_> 22nd sounds good
<LaserJock> so we'd have like the last few .isos on the tracker, but somehow distinguishing from the current candidate
<LaserJock> and then people can just not file bugs on known .iso issues
<persia> Or can be referred to existing bugs if there is good guidance on how to title the bugs.
<LaserJock> yeah
<heno_> I don't think we should collect results from obsolete ISOs but we should keep historic data in view when considering release-readiness
<LaserJock> I just think it's awful disheartening to download the thing, burn it, and do a test, only to have your results tossed out a minute later, if not earlier
<heno_> rsync is pretty quick though if the changes are minimal
<heno_> ok, we are out of time
<LaserJock> I've got several hours before without getting a single valid candidate tested
<LaserJock> *gone
<sbeattie> LaserJock: note that for the testing day, we're talking about testing alpha 6 as is, not candidates for alpha 6.
<heno_> let's continue in #u-q
<LaserJock> it's not just download
<heno_> #endmeeting
<LaserJock> sbeattie: I think we should do both
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 12 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 14 Sep 18:00: Mozilla Team
<Seeker`> #startmeeting
<persia> Seeker`: The Bot is hibernating.
<Seeker`> persia: We are currently trying to fix it
<persia> Cool!
<Seeker`> people should prod me harder if it stops working
<persia> Seeker`: Sorry.  I didn't know who to prod.  I'll hunt you agressively next time it doesn't work.
<Seeker`> :D
<Seeker`> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:45. The chair is Seeker`.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Seeker`> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:45.
<jpds> Seeker`: Yay.
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-04
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<lool> Hey Chris
<cgregan> lool: Hello
<davidm> Hi cgregan lool
 * cgregan waves
 * ogra waves
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Ha mootbot is alive
<davidm> :-)
<ogra> yeah, since last night :)
<davidm> OK, from the top, I'm going to carry over the Ekaga testing, lool and I have not gotten to it yet, lool should I carry that for 1 or 2 weeks?
<lool> davidm: Please carry over; I wanted to play with the webcam this week, but only had time to test whether ekiga and cheese would recognize it
<lool> (cheese doesn't, I need to prepare the new upstream and ekiga does)
<davidm> OK,
<lool> I've searched for free SIP providers supporting video in vain
<lool> pointers welcome
<davidm> [topic]lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9)
<MootBot> New Topic: lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9)
<lool> I opened free accounts to 3 sip providers
<davidm> [action] lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9) (carryover)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9) (carryover)
<davidm> [topic] lool to review modest and libwpeditor+ after he has time to address some of its issues.
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to review modest and libwpeditor+ after he has time to address some of its issues.
<persia> lool: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+video might be helpful if you can't find a proper provider.
<lool> I didn't have time to work on this; I thought I should prefer working on features which missed FF than bug fixes
<davidm> lool, agree
<lool> persia: I remembered visiting that page
<lool> *remember
<lool> davidm: This impacts discussion on modest later in this meeting I'm afraid
<davidm> lool, I'm not going to carry this over, it's on your list
<lool> persia: Actually this page is on clients; there's another page on providers
<persia> lool: We can discuss after the meeting: it's about being one's own provider.
<lool> persia: But I browsed to a couple websites, and the list was basically quite unusable; most web sites suggested to write to this or that email address for pricing...
<davidm> [topic] all add spec ideas for intrepid+1 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions
<MootBot> New Topic:  all add spec ideas for intrepid+1 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions
<lool> persia: No way I'm spending the time to setup asterisk just for this
<persia> heh
<davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions
<davidm> This is just to remind folks to please add Spec suggestions, UDS is getting closer
<lool> persia: Didyou add the last entry on that page?
<lool> persia: Could you add your name to it?
<persia> It appears I did.  Adding now.
<lool> davidm: Thanks for the reminder
<davidm> [topic]current status
<MootBot> New Topic: current status
<davidm> cgregan, status?
<cgregan> sure
<lool> cgregan: Welcome to the team!
<cgregan> Thanks!
<cgregan> Currently working on several projects for Solutions Group. As well as taking a look at modest
<cgregan> and comparing to claws
<cgregan> and TB
<cgregan> Beginning cases for the Intrepid cycle
<cgregan> All in all pretty busy....
<cgregan> Oh
<cgregan> and buying a house...moving to Boston
<ogra> yay
<cgregan> :-)
<ogra> congrats
<cgregan> thanks
<cgregan> That's it for me
<davidm> StevenK, status?
<StevenK> davidm: Been working on the home screen for the last two days
<StevenK> davidm: Trying to get something sorted out that is better than the current m-b-f
<StevenK> That should be sorted out tomorrow and I'll be testing ogra's script against the images
<StevenK> Also need to fix old image deletion on antimony
<StevenK> I think that's everything
<davidm> Is the problem with our images sorted?
<persia> No, but amitk has a lead, and it ought be good soon.
<lool> davidm: Not really, it's a kernel bug which is being chased by amitk, pete and others
<lool> It's an aufs bug when you change a while which has been removed AIUI
<persia> It's bug #264048
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264048 in linux-lpia "aufs hangs on rename() in MID live images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264048
<davidm> OK, thanks
<davidm> persia, status?
<lool> ogra: Hmm should also affect linux, forgot to do that
 * lool 
<lool> ogra: I mean *I* forgot to do that, not you
<persia> I found lots of interesting ways to break the images, and even broke some customised images.
<ogra> :)
<persia> That said, I've been fiddling with developing the preseed file we want on the intrepid i386 liveCD, so we have something to drop when we have good images again.
<lool> persia: Is the ubiquity xorg crash solved?
<persia> There's also a couple arch-specific installer bugs that I need to sort out.
<persia> lool: No.  I still can't strace that.  On the other hand, I can only reproduce it on frankenimages, so I'm not sure it's not an environmental issue.
<lool> persia: What remains to be done when the kernel bug is fixed?
<persia> lool: Drop of the preseed file into our images, and address the two or three arch-specific bugs.  Biggest one is that the partition types for lpia aren't registered.
<persia> That assumes that the clean images won't have any environmental bugs for running ubiquity, but I'm hoping I can't reproduce my crash (because it doesn't crash like that with the lpia images and ubiquity)
<lool> So it will need an ubiquity upload, an ubuntu-mid-default-settings upload and a partman upload or?
<persia> Shouldn't need any changes in ubiquity.  We'll need to tweak the script that runs between livecd.sh and having images.
<lool> (Where I'm going here is: what are the packages from the main distro which will need an exception)
<persia> Probably partman, but I haven't looked into that one very deeply.
<persia> I think only the partitioner.
<lool> Ok; if you have preliminary patches, I think you can already open FFE bugs if they are warranted with your current diff
<lool> Please sub me on these
<StevenK> persia: What changes need to be made to the script that constructs the image?
<persia> StevenK: We'll need to add the preseed file to the CD to instruct ubiquity what not to do.
<persia> s/CD/image
<StevenK> persia: Sure.
<StevenK> persia: That can be arranged.
<persia> StevenK: I thought so :)
<StevenK> For suitable amounts of chocolate.
 * StevenK looks at Hobbsee.
<davidm> are we good to continue?
<persia> lool: Do you think the possible FFe issues are more important to hit than the ubiquity configuration?  I can work against the alternate CD now and hit those separately: it's an independent track.
<lool> persia: What I want is anything preventing actual upload when upload is ready to be started at the earliest
<persia> lool: OK.
<lool> amitk: We just discussed installer status
<lool> amitk: It's mostly blocked on the kernel aufs bug
<Hobbsee> hmmm?
<lool> amitk: Could you give a quick status of the intrepid aufs plan with the new upstream and all?
<davidm> amitk, can you give us the status of the kernel aufs bug?
<ogra> looks solved
<lool> amitk: You know, with your kernel happy hat
<amitk> aufs (the version we have in intrepid) has a deadlock bug on renames
<amitk> this is already solved upstream and the current plan is to just update our aufs code with the latest from upstream
<lool> amitk: We're currently tracking 2.6.26 in linux-lpia, it looks like we will want to move to .27
<amitk> ofcourse this will require proper testing to make sure we don't break livecds
<lool> amitk: Do you think a fixed linux-lpia could be uploaded on Friday?
<lool> (tomorrow)
<lool> amitk: You can upload linux-lpia straight away if you like, it's too broken for us to do much out of it anyway
<persia> amitk: lpia livecds are currently broken: don't worry too much about breaking them if it puts you in a better position to fix them later.
<amitk> I am currently working on rebasing the linux-lpia tree for intrepid onto 2.6.27 and bringing it in sync with the main kernel tree
<lool> Cool; do you have an ETA for an upload?
<amitk> persia: I am not worried about lpia in the least. I am worries about breaking i386/amd64 cds due to the aufs upgrade :)
<persia> OK :)
<lool> amitk: (I'm happy to sponsor you BTW)
<ogra> amitk, pfft, CDs are so last year ... they should switch to USB too
<amitk> lool: I am working as fast as I can. I will have an estimate for you later today. 2.6.26->2.6.27 is a big change and all lpia patches might not apply right away
<davidm> amitk, thanks for update
<lool> amitk: Ack; I also expected you might be working on other tasks too
<lool> s/be working on/be busy with non-lpia
<davidm> persia, had you finished with your status?
<persia> Yes :)
<amitk> lool: yeah... re-inheritance of the lpia tree intrerupted my work schedule a bit. But I hope to have it all sorted soon
<davidm> amitk, thanks for picking it up again, it's critical for us.
<davidm> lool, status?
<lool> Status is working on many FF tasks which we missed
<lool> Things I really want to push soon are elisa 0.5.x packages, cheese 2.23/2.24 packages
<lool> I need to continue work on modest
<lool> Finishing the xulrunner bits and the mbf move to xul 1.9 is also high on my list
<lool> apart of that, continue helping around and tracking image and installer status
<lool> It looks like I will have some internal and hardy/intel work this week as well
<lool> That's about all I want to report
<davidm> lool, thanks
<lool> Oh and I spent too much time on awkful desktop upload this week
<davidm> ogra, status?
<ogra> * wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageModification (which nicely gave a good pointer to solutions for the aufs bug :) )
<ogra> * cmpc packages (cheese/gstreamer) for bug #258110 fixed, tested and uploaded to hardy-proposed (sitting in SRU process now)
<ogra> * netbook apps are sitting in NEW modulo launcher, bug #263493 should be closed tomorrow if the launcher was uploaded with new name
<ogra> * lagging on bug #261873, will try to attack that on the weekend, though there are working .fdi files attached to make i.e. the Q1 work
<ogra> * lagging on testing of alternative IM clients (even though empathy is good imho i havent tested it enough yet, especially wrt hildon)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258110 in cmpc "Camera application cannot record video" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258110
<ogra> * bought a new car and claimed my driver license back (lost that 2 years ago and didnt feel the need to get it back until now) :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263493 in ubuntu "Please package applications from netbook-remix" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261873 in xf86-input-evtouch "make evtouch devices work with hal-input in intrepid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261873
<ogra> thats all :)
<cgregan> only? ;-)
<cgregan> :-)
<lool> ogra: Done for cmpc now?
<davidm> ogra, once the packages are uploaded cmpc is complete?
<ogra> oh, and thanks a lot for testing the script from the howto to everyone
<ogra> davidm, lool once packages are moved to hardy-updates and i did a final image it will be done
<lool> Good to read
<ogra> they are stuck in the hardy SRU process now
<lool> ogra: Any other planned maintenance?
<davidm> OK, the next topic is not complete but I'll list it anyway
<ogra> only if we get kernel updates after that
<lool> ogra: I understand you might need to reroll images with security / stable updates from time to time?
<lool> Ok; only kernel
<ogra> until 8.04.2 where the kernel will have the patches included
<ogra> right
<lool> davidm: [topic] choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird
<davidm> [topic] Switch claws with modest libwpeditor/libwpeditor-plus?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Switch claws with modest libwpeditor/libwpeditor-plus?
<lool> Hmm too late
<davidm> which really should be what you said
<lool> davidm: So it should really be moving from claws to modest or to thunderbird
<davidm> nothing on this so new topic
<lool> As I reported earlier, no progress on fixing the annoying modest issues; cgregan reported he wants to test modest
<ogra> someone should test TB on 800x480 though
<davidm> [topic] choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird
<MootBot> New Topic:  choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird
<lool> I think cgregan now has target images which at least give an idea of screen size and have hildonized bits in them
<persia> So, who's tried either of them on the daily images?
<ogra> i tested it on 1024x600 where it works fine ... but i dont know if anyone tried on the small res.
<cgregan> lool: I do
<lool> ogra: Thanks for testing
<lool> I think we have still too little testing data and too many modest bugs to take a decision, so let's keep carrying this over as a reminder that we should do more testing and that I should fix modest
<davidm> cgregan, any chance you can have a look at TB (on a small screen) and let us know how it looks?
<cgregan> davidm: How small?
<davidm> 800x480 if possible?
<lool> cgregan: Target are MID sizes, lowest being 800x480 or so
<cgregan> davidm: Hmm....I can see if the Jax will take the current image
<davidm> cgregan, thanks
<cgregan> np
<davidm> [action] cgregan will try to test ThunderBird on 800x480 screen size and report findings.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cgregan will try to test ThunderBird on 800x480 screen size and report findings.
<davidm> [action] choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird (carried over)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird (carried over)
<davidm> [topic] Touchscreen issues (StevenK)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Touchscreen issues (StevenK)
<lool> ogra was looking into evtouch stuff, notably calibration
<lool> StevenK: You meant to discuss the evtouch/q1u touchscreen?
<ogra> well, enablement actually for now
<ogra> calibration is the second step ...
<ogra> ut as i said above, the bug has a .fdi file attached that makes it work fine on the Q1
<StevenK> I meant to kick ogra into fixing it
<StevenK> :-)
<ogra> just copy that to /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-touchscreen or some similar name
<ogra> it will work
<ogra> i'm looking for something saner for calibration though that doesnt hardcode the values in the .fdi
<lool> Ok
<ogra> but as a quicfix the .fdi will do
<lool> ogra: You continue to chase this support?
<ogra> yes
<lool> Cool
<ogra> its a personal quest :)
<ogra> if you run into touchscreens anywhere, please send xorg.conf from hardy and lshal to me ot attach to the bug
<davidm> [action] ogra to continue to chase support of Q1 touchscreen
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to continue to chase support of Q1 touchscreen
<davidm> [topic] Instant messaging client
<MootBot> New Topic:  Instant messaging client
 * ogra sighs ...
<lool> Ogra reported on this earlier
 * ogra hasn used any IM for years ... its hard for me to judge that at all beyond things like usability 
<lool> StevenK: Wanted to ask ogra for testing status or had more comments to make?
<lool> ogra: You're using IM right now!  :)
<ogra> no i use an IRC client for IRC :)
<persia> IRC is not the standard IM paradigm.
<ogra> IRC predates any IM :)
<persia> No.  There was talk before there was IRC.
<ogra> but wasnt called IM
 * persia quibbles and subsiders
<persia> s/r/
<lool> Ok, I was just kidding and didn't want to bring us back to memories of stone age
<lool> StevenK: Anything you wanted to add on choice of IM?
 * cgregan send lool a message by smoke signal
 * ogra beats the drums ... DO YOU HEAR ME IN .FR ?
<StevenK> lool: Anything but pidgin-maemo
 * lool opens the window and moves the semaphore and confirms with a pidgeon
<ogra> lol
<lool> err pigeon
<davidm> 10 minute warning
<persia> Right.  Next topic?
<lool> persia: What next topic?
<davidm> yes, but we are out of topics
<persia> OK.  Anyone have any last minute topics they want to mention?
<davidm> So the floor is open
 * lool falls in the cracks of the open floor
<persia> I'd like people to write questions in the wiki FAQ sections.  I'll answer them, but I suspect I'll be out of questions to ask my Saturday or so, and suspect there are more that couple be answered.
 * davidm pulls lool out of the crack in the open floor ;-)
 * Hobbsee seals the floor
<ogra> phew
<Hobbsee> silly lool.
 * lool can't walk with his broken leg
 * ogra feels safe again
<persia> Excellent.  lool will now be stuck in front of the computer :)
<lool> Ok; thanks everybody for attending!
 * Hobbsee makes the roof fall in on ogra
<ogra> eeek
 * ogra covers under the meeting desk
<davidm> OK if there is nothing else I'll close the meeting early
<lool> davidm: thanks for chairing
 * Hobbsee sets the desks on fire
<ogra> enough !
<Hobbsee> :)
<ogra> :)
 * persia gives Hobbsee a stick and a sheet of instructions ...
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:54.
 * cgregan wonders if there is something strange in the air over europe
<Hobbsee> persia: is it a pointy stick?
<zul> cgregan: no its just Hobbsee
<persia> cgregan: It's not just Europe.
<davidm> Now the question is, when will the mootbot logs become available
<persia> Hobbsee: Indeed.  The one you appear to have lost.
<Hobbsee> persia: my Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢ is unlosable.
 * mvo looks around
<Hobbsee> cgregan: i'm not european :)
<ogra> davidm, ask Seeker`
<pitti> hi
 * cgregan closes window
<cgregan> :-)
<ogra> davidm, he's the one who fixed it :)
<davidm> ogra, I will, it has been taking 1 -2 weeks
<davidm> I hope it's sooner then that.
<Riddell> hi
<ogra> he said we should ping him more agressively
 * persia points out that the next meeting is starting, and there is a perfectly good #ubuntu-offtopic channel
<ogra> persia, we still have it for four mins :P
 * persia isn't that greedy
<Hobbsee> -offtopic tends to be a madhouse, anyway.
<seb128> hi
<MacSlow> hi seb128, Hobbsee
<seb128> hey MacSlow
 * Hobbsee greets seb128 and MacSlow with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<mvo> hello!
<MacSlow> hey mvo
<mvo> hey MacSlow!
<siretart> hi mvo, hello pitti!
<Keybuk> Anyone seen Ken or Ted today?
<Hobbsee> did you check the basement?
<MacSlow> nope
<MacSlow> hi kwwii
<mpt> Ahoy hoy
<MacSlow> hey mpt
<pedro_> hey hey
<kwwii> howdy
 * mvo waves to mpt
<Keybuk> ok, let's get started without Ted
<MacSlow> yo pedro_
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-09-04
<kwwii> one thing we should add to the list is the human theme bug
<Keybuk> the only agenda item I saw was from Ted, sadly
<Keybuk> kwwii: you'd like that to be an agenda item?
<kwwii> Keybuk: yes, please
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> first up, outstanding actions
<Keybuk> last meeting as a few weeks ago, so hopefully these are all sorted and not forgotten about ;-)
<Keybuk>  * Riddell to follow up on MIR bug for libzip to remind pitti.
<MacSlow> Keybuk, if you want you can add my "issues" with dbus, ck and XDG_SESSION_COOKIE
<pitti> I processed almost all MIR bugs yesterday and today (three outstanding only), libzip isn't on the list any more
<mvo> *cough* sorry, I have only talked informally on irc about the package-failure, not sent a mail it :/
<Keybuk> pitti: ok, we'll mark that as resolved then
<Keybuk> mvo: ok, I'll carry that over to the next meeting then
<mvo> thanks
<Keybuk>  * seb128 to discuss MIR, seed changes and CD size implications with doko.
<pitti> Keybuk: it's in main now, but I didn't see any bug followup
<Keybuk> seb128: ?
<Keybuk> I guess seb128 has fallen off the net
<MacSlow> hey tedg
<Keybuk> kwwii: Human Theme Bug ?
<tedg> Hey guys, sorry I'm late.
<kwwii> well, there is a bug in the human theme, what makes it hard to test is the difference between upgrades and new installs
<kwwii> so what I would like to know is who can I bother about my packaging skills
<Keybuk> what's the bug# ?
<kwwii> I have questions from time to time and I basically need to know who will help me...waiting for someone in chat is crazy and wastes time
<kwwii> let me find it
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> my connection to this IRC timeouted apparently
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/256972
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256972 in human-theme "original Human theme is broken" [Undecided,New]
<Keybuk> kwwii: mvo, pitti, any of your team mates, really?
<kwwii> well, I don't want to start going through a list of people
<Keybuk> it's a milestoned bug, so it's clearly important for the release
<kwwii> I can understand that it is annoying when I ask questions again and again and people are busy
<pitti> kwwii: sending me mail or pinging me on IRC usually works fine
<Keybuk> (though it needs an Importance)
<Keybuk> kwwii: if you can't get hold of someone, talk to pitti who'll be able to help
<kwwii> pitti: right, I just thought you were too important
<kwwii> :-)
<Keybuk> either himself, or by assigning someone to do it
<kwwii> ok, cool
<pitti> lol
<kwwii> there will be a new theme package from community stuff
<kwwii> I have it in my ppa now and once mark ok's the themes it will need to go in intrepid as well
<Keybuk> pitti: as Technical Lead, don't be shy about delegating to someone else
<Keybuk> especially if it's a release affecting bug
<Keybuk> seb128: before you dropped off, there was an outstanding action for you from last meeting
<Keybuk>  * seb128 to discuss MIR, seed changes and CD size implications with doko.
<seb128_> doko and pitti were on holidays so nobody to talked too
<seb128_> mpt wrote a nice document too and suggested delaying the switch until next cycle
<pitti> seb128_: waiting for something in particular? as I said, I spent yesterday and today with processing almost all MIRs
<seb128_> I tend to agree with him now, it still lacks some feature, we have lot of other things to do and it's late for MIRs, CD space changes, etc
<seb128_> pitti: that's was for the telepathy stack
<Keybuk> ah, ok, this ends up being the same agenda item as Ted's :)
<pitti> oh, empathy
<Keybuk> tedg: that answers your final decision question?
<pitti> ok, so empathy -> intrepid+1 first day?
<seb128_> pitti: what I would suggest yes
<tedg> Heh, sounds like it.  Can we just change the ISO standard for CD size? ;)
<seb128_> it still lacks feature and will require some work and everybody is already overworked
<seb128_> pidgin will do and users like it so it's not an issue
<Keybuk> ok, cool
<tedg> It would be nice when we ship Empathy that the A/V features were rock solid so that it's an easy sell.
<kwwii> that is 4 less icons for me to make :-)
<Keybuk> MacSlow has been having problems with XDG_SESSION_COOKIE and has asked to discuss them here
<Keybuk> MacSlow: could you briefly outline the problem, and who you've talked to about it so far?
<seb128_> I don't think it's a meeting topic
<pitti> no, we discussed this at lenght in email already
<pitti> something for #ubuntu-devel IMHO
<seb128_> should rather be discussed on #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-devel at any time during the day
<pitti> it seems that MacSlow's dbus installation is really hosed somehow
<MacSlow> I'm ok with that.
<tedg> MacSlow: Is that problem coming from the new GDM?
<Keybuk> ok, MacSlow: please take to the other channels
<MacSlow> I mean the place for disussion
<Keybuk> all your co-workers are back from leave
<pitti> MacSlow: after the meeting, #u-desktop?
<MacSlow> pitti, ok
<seb128_> tedg: yes, it's gdm
<MacSlow> tedg, yeah gory
<tedg> Keybuk: Are we inviting GDM folks to UDS?  It seems like a good UDS session.
<MacSlow> Jon and Ray would be cool to have
<Keybuk> tedg: we're doing UDS differently again, information will be out on Monday
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> Sponsoring Queue
<seb128_> speaking about gdm would be nice if you guys who are working on it could update the launchpad bzr to have current snapshots
<seb128_> nobody touched it since I pushed that during the distro sprint
<MacSlow> seb128_, you mean just package the current upstream?!
<Keybuk> seb128: bug #263799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263799 in gnome-themes "Please sponsor gnome-themes 2.23.91 (main) into Intrepid" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263799
<seb128> I mean get the bzr and rebase it on the current bzr gnome mirror
<MacSlow> seb128, ah ok
<seb128> Keybuk: it was pending changes from the contributor until yesterday and archive is frozen
<kwwii> updating the gnome-themes package would be nice
<seb128> Keybuk: I'll upload after the freeze
<tedg> MacSlow: I'm not sure if it got merged in, but I had a small init change in my GDM branch.  (if you're going to merge everything)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> Riddell: #263082
<Keybuk> Riddell: bug #263082
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263082 in libqalculate "Spelling mistakes in currency menu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263082
<Riddell> not looked at them yet
<Riddell> can do once alpha is out
<Keybuk> it's going to be a new requirement that each team member spend an hour a week doing sponsorship
<MacSlow> tedg, I will see when I do that
<Keybuk> (the e-mail is somewhere between dholbach and mdz right now)
<Keybuk> so please do find the time this week where possible, even if you just queue it for after the freeze
<Keybuk> pitti: bug #257313
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257313 in abiword "abiword 2.6.4 homepage field / watch file" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257313
<seb128> Keybuk: good decision ;-)
<pitti> Keybuk: I commented on that; this small patch alone doesn't really warrant an upload IMHO, so I wanted to wait until some actual fixed piled up
<seb128> pitti: unsubscribe the sponsor team
<Keybuk> pitti: unsubscribe the sponsor tema
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> it's reported to Debian, too
<pitti> ok
<Keybuk> things in the list should be either doable immediately after a review
<Keybuk> or, if they are not, comment on the bug to explain the problem and unsubscribe the team to remove them from the list
<Keybuk> seb128: bug #249582
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249582 in gtksourceview2 "Highlighting for `popd` in sh.lang misspelled as `podp`" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249582
<seb128> Keybuk: uploaded during this meeting already, that was from this morning
<Keybuk> Riddell: #248792
<Keybuk> seb128: :-)
<Keybuk> Riddell: bug #248792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248792 in kdenetwork "Binary package knewsticker should be renamed to plasmoid-knewsticker" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248792
<Riddell> hmm will discuss with debian
<Keybuk> Riddell: if it requires discussion, the sponsorship team should be unsubscribed
<Keybuk> since it's not a trivial request
<Riddell> ok
<Keybuk> seb128: bug #234754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234754 in rhythmbox "Launcher icon is fuzzy" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234754
<seb128> Keybuk: I'll unsubscribe the team from this one now, not happy about the change
<Keybuk> ok
<kwwii> seems like we have these bugs every release
<Keybuk> (and yes, I'm doing mine as I go down the list too :p)
<seb128> ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: bug #153526
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 153526 in xchat-gnome "segmentation fault when set as away by GUI" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153526
<seb128> will look at this one
<seb128> I've already sponsored like 10 uploads yesterday, would be nice to share the load a bit too
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #146979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 146979 in software-properties "Substandard .desktop file (patch  against bzr attached)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/146979
<Keybuk> seb128: don't be afraid to reassign to other people on the team
<seb128> Keybuk: thanks
<Keybuk> if you want someone more authorative to do it, ask pitti who can do so as the Technical Lead
<mvo> Keybuk: will upload it after the freeze is over
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #56792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 56792 in apt "String consisting entirely of variables has no translation hint" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56792
 * mvo looks
<Keybuk> ...
<Keybuk> ok, pushing on
<Keybuk> as the Technical Lead, one of Martin's responsibilities is to keep track of the release status of the team
<Keybuk> in particular, those bugs or features assigned to the team or which should be assigned to the team
<Keybuk> but also our general realease ability
<Keybuk> so he gets a regular slot in this meeting to find out about problems, and ask for updates
<Keybuk> pitti: over to you
<pitti> seb128: are there still things to be done for the spellcheck cleanup?
<seb128> pitti: yes, ArneGoetje still need to change the hunspell dictionnaries depends
<pitti> I processed the MIRs yesterday, so they can go; ok, will ask him
<pitti> seb128: also, I think better-login-speed and intrepid-menus-review could need a whiteboard update
<seb128> also the hunspell dictionnaries conflicts on thunderbird which we want to fix
<pitti> they are still 'started', they should be further than that or deferred
<seb128> pitti: right, will do that today
<Keybuk> seb128: how are the individual pieces of those two specs proceeding?
<pitti> seb128: I don't think a lot has happened to those yet, right?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the menu changes are trivial for the most part and I wanted to do that after the GNOME update but it took a bit longer than planned, will do that today or tomorrow
<pitti> mvo: intrepid-desktop-systemprefs> I acked the MIR, it's in main; is the PPA patch for g-c-c in intrepid now?
<seb128> the login speed we got the gnome-session which start things in order but that's about it
<mvo> pitti: yes, it is in intrepid now, but mpt had some UI suggestions that needs to be included
<pitti> mvo: do you reckon the global keyboard setting will make intrepid?
<pitti> spec says it's not done yet, and you are still discussing with arne
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks; updating the whiteboard for the remaining TODOs would be appreciated
<mvo> pitti: it depends on how far we want to go. a debconf based one should be easy, a custom one is more difficult (and will not make it)
<pitti> mvo: debconf? in language selector?
<mpt> I didn't realize there was already a spec for that (mine's at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DefaultKeyboardSettings>)
<pitti> anyway, that's #u-devel material
<mvo> pitti: the keyboard settings can be changed via the debconf console-setup package, so my first approach on this was to just use this
<mvo> X picks that up nowdays
<mvo> but if we want a better UI, then more work is required
<pitti> mvo: ah, poke it into debconf and dpkg-reconfigure console-setup?
<pitti> mvo: and take the value from the language selector UI?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> that was the plan
<pitti> that WFM
<pitti> as long as it doesn't actually need to spawn synaptic and the gtk debconf UI :)
<pitti> Keybuk: ok, I'm done, thanks
<Keybuk> ok, great
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Keybuk> adjourned then
<Keybuk> thanks everyone
<MacSlow> ok
<pitti> thanks all
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
<Koon> o/
<persia> dalibor: slytherin: ?
 * persia suspects this will be a short meeting.
<persia> Koon: Any progress to report?
<Koon> I just uploaded a jpp-modified maven to the team PPA
<Koon> and also submitted the corresponding packaging in the team BZR
<persia> Cool.  That's the one that needed the .pom files to be added to each library, right?
<Koon> yes. very very painful
<cody-somerville> \o/
<Koon> I've been trying to do a minimal helloworld build
<Koon> we are missing the very basic blocks to make that happening. Like packaged basic maven-plugins
<Koon> anyway, once it is built in the PPA, I'll post instructions on how to play with it
<dalibor> thanks, koon
<Koon> it will involve installing the modified maven + copying a bunch of files from a tar.gz that provide what should have been provided by other packages
<Koon> At that point running mvn compile I hit an error
<persia> Right.  The maven-jpp-support stuff that we agreed we didn't want, but nobody came up with a better solution that wasn't incredibly painful.
<Koon> exactly
<Koon> I can tell creating the tar.gz with all the missing files was a very painful process.
<persia> Indeed.
<Koon> the original maven-jpp in my ppa was not working at all
<Koon> so I've been busy those last few days fixing it, the one in the PPA "works", meaning you can use it as the regular maven, it shouldn't break
<Koon> s/the PPA/the team PPA/
<Koon> but like I said, I'm stuck with a "Unable to find the mojo"-style error
<Koon> Instructions will be at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/MavenJppTesting whenever I confirm they are sufficient to reproduce
<Koon> whcih should be anytime now
<Koon> sorry I'm late, hasd a power outagethose last two hours
<Koon> I intended to complete that by the meeting time :/
<persia> No problem at all.  It sounds like you've made great progress!
<persia> What do you need from others at this point?
<Koon> I'd have preferred at least being able to run that basic "mvn compile" command :)
<Koon> A maven/Java/plexus guy could review the error I get and give me pointers
<Koon> or go further in the process and write on that same wiki page
<Koon> I've forwarded the error to Deepak Bhole, who has been very helpful in the mvn-jpp fixing frenzy of those last days.
<Koon> the idea is to describe how to reach the point where I stand right now in the quest to the debian-package-with-maven holy grail, so that others can progress in the quest themselves
<persia> Anyone able to help Koon in tracking down the error?
<Koon> but I can already tell using mvn-jpp will be ugly. The only clean solution I see is to get rid of maven upstream.
<persia> Heh.
<persia> Do we know if affected upstreams can be built with ant?
<Koon> persia: most of the time the upstream use a wacky maven-plugin to do something strange. To work around that, you basically have to rewrite what the plugin does.
<persia> Ah.  Then not really something easily done at the packaging level.
<Koon> we could work around maven using a maven converter, that would reuse some plugin code but get rid of the auto-updating pom stuff
<Koon> I'm not sure trying to use maven directly is the right solution, in fact
<Koon> beacsue you have to build an environment around it to make it believe it's connecting somewhere else to get its elements
<Koon> (either using the JPP patchset or the proxy thing)
<persia> Anyone else have thoughts about this?
<lool> Can't we use a security manager to disable networking?
<persia> lool: We get that for free on the buildds, but it still tries to download, and the build will fail if it can't connect.
<Koon> lool: what the JPP patchset does is disable networking, and making it fetch everything from file:// urls
<Koon> +disable the freshness check on items + trying to map versions to the installed one
<lool> Sounds good
<Koon> lool: that's the less worse, but it's still hackish and fragile
<lool> Can't we convince maven upstream to implement support for network less operation?
<lool> *networkless
<persia> dalibor: What do you think of the chances of that?
<dalibor> glassfish : missing deps - activation-rev, auto-depends, bnd, config, connector-api-alpha, dataprovider-sources, deployment-api-rev, doxia-modules, jakarta-regexp, jsf, kxml, lot of maven plugins, apache felix, eclipse persistence, osgi, phobos, different plexus plugins, stax, surefire, svnkit, wagon plugins.
<dalibor> hard - bascially - deepak tried that & failed.
<dalibor> two years ago.
<lool> He failed at the convincing or the implementation stage?
<dalibor> (to get his oatch in)
<dalibor> the upstream felt that the current mode was ok as it was
<Koon> lool: one problem is that maven relies on POM files to walk the dependency tree
<dalibor> and in the current mode, offlijne execution still implies that meven will go out on the network anyway.
<lool> I can hardly imagine that so many people would rely on a tool which needs network for all builds
<dalibor> yeah, well ... it basically works like this
<dalibor> regular java developers use operating systems that dopn't have package managers
<dalibor> so for them maven#s ability to just fetch dependencies from somewhere is great
<lool> Lack of integration with packaging I can understand, but network access?
<dalibor> since it means they don't have to check those jars in anymore.
<dalibor> ahem.
<lool> Like all these opensource java developper stop building when they are in a plane?
<dalibor> after a couple of weeks spent migrating to maven they discover it's not so simple , actually, but then life is too short to go back ;)
<lool> haha
<dalibor> so what people end up using are maven archive managers
<lool> Ok; I have some vague memories that one could point maven 1 at a preferred repositories to grab deps from, but I don't know whether it was possible to configure it for a file:// local rpeo
<dalibor> which are basically maven repo mirroring tools + proxies.
<Koon> even with maven out of the way, the effort necessary to package all JARs for something like glassfish or geronimo is huge. With maven, it's close to "not worth it".
<dalibor> which is funny enough what a nuch of maven related companies sell ;)
<dalibor> and maven migration consulting services ;)
<lool> Are these jars mostly in the archive but not accessible to maven, or mostly not?
<dalibor> it's a bit like migrating to linux - you know it is supposed to work like a charm, but your wirelss card is still not working ;)
<lool> If the jars are in the archive, perhaps we can script extraction and pulling into an absolutely hideous maven-jars package which would work like ia32-libs -- while looking into making more of these maven accessible
<Koon> persia: anyway, I'm testing my instructions right now, will post to ubuntu-java when I'm done, and do some advertising on #ubuntu-java
<persia> Koon: Sounds good.
<lool> If they are not, would it be possible to download the source code theoritically used to build the jars and stuff it alongside?
<dalibor> well, there is lies the rub
<dalibor> the maven archive actually contains no source code for the jars in there
<persia> Also, regarding the libraries and libraries and libraries problem: in hardy the NetBeans team spent a couple months identifying the 25 libraries they needed added or uploaded, and made it in.  It's a heap of work, but it's possible.
<lool> (e.g. debian/rules download-deps would be run by the maintainer and would copy .jars and .tar.gz/.zips with source code to maven/deps/ and that would be used to build the package)
<Koon> lool: Well there is one solution...
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release
<lool> dalibor: Isn't it contradictory to the distribution requirements of these projects?
<Koon> lool: 1/compile the project with maven
<Koon> 2/ save the resulting .m2 repository
<dalibor> only for the GPLd ones ;)
<Koon> 3/ replace all jars with links to the system-installed ones
<lool> dalibor: I hoped that if they need to provide it for GPL projects they could organize to provide it all the time  :-/
<Koon> 4/ package that huge thing together with your sources
<Koon> 5/run a modified maven that just does not do the freshness check
<dalibor> lool: well, I had that dcisussion with the nmavenproject lead back in 2003, or so, and was told to sod off, so ... ymmv ;)
<Koon> ugly but easier.
<lool> Koon: What you describe sounds doable and I don't see big issues
<dalibor> i think the repository posicy ended up  being 'avoid GPLd projects' instead of 'let's just ship the source code'
<Koon> lool: i'll describe that as an implementation alternative
<Koon> lool: it's also a more manageable patch than the jpp patchset
<persia> OK.  It sounds like we've got more proposals.  Let's get those on the spec, and discuss in the IRC channel and on the mailing list.
<persia> We can implement as many as we like, and decide which is good as soon as we have one that works.
<persia> Next topic:
<Koon> lool: and one that could make its way upstream (-Donly_use_current_artifacts)
<persia> dalibor: Where are we in terms of task definition for the server stack?
<dalibor> i've compiled a lit of missing stuff in the repos, posted further up.
<dalibor> (for glassfish)
<dalibor> it boils down to
<dalibor> a) more maven stuff (i.e. plugins, plugins, plugins)
<dalibor> b) more plexus stuff
<dalibor> c) more of doxia
<dalibor> d) more of wagon
<dalibor> e) an osgi implementation (i.e. apache felix)
<persia> Are plexus, doxia, or wagon likely to cause any of the issues that we've seen with maven, or are they mostly just library packaging?
<dalibor> f) along with flexus, bnd
<dalibor> g) phobos
<dalibor> h) eclipse persistence
<dalibor> i)  surefire
<dalibor> j) svnkit
<dalibor> k) small stuff. ;9
<persia> Er, Ah.
<dalibor> plexus, doxia & wagon are all basically maven related
<persia> So it's actually on the order of 20-30 new packages we need, at least?
<dalibor> doxia is a documentation generation kit
<dalibor> there is a package for it, but it doesn't have all the doxia modules necessary for glassfish
<dalibor> plexus is an IoC ontainer, there is a package for it, same as above
<dalibor> wagon is a transport layer for maven, same as above
<dalibor> i'd guess 20-30 would capture that, yeah, though they are all libraries (likely using maven to build), rather then projects requiring a massive effort to integrate into a distribution.
<persia> That's a lot.  I suspect we'll need to get some help from Debian (unless we suddenly get lots more packaging volunteers) to get that within intrepid+1.
<dalibor> definitely.
<persia> Should be a little easier once squeeze opens.
<dalibor> though I hope a lot of it will just fall into place once maven-jpp works
<persia> I think a good start might be to identify which libraries can be built with the current stack, and start with a bunch of RFPs.
<dalibor> yeah
<dalibor> i'll post a full list to the wiki
<persia> dalibor: Could you maybe summarise the findings on a wiki page (unless I missed it before), and we can add it as a new item for someone to chase?
<dalibor> yep
<persia> Anyone up for a bunch of packaging?
<persia> OK.  Maybe we can get some volunteers once the list is up.
<dalibor> svnkit should be easy to start with, it uses ant to build, for example.
<persia> Might also be a good idea to have a session at OpenWeek and encourage people to attack the list once we get a few more.
<persia> dalibor: What's next in the task definition plan?
<dalibor> breaking out the easy ones that we can package with ant / as is
<persia> So still glassfish?  OK.
<dalibor> yeah, I'm sure I'll have my hands full with just its dependencies for now :/
<dalibor> happy to delegate looking at other alternatives to any takers
<persia> No problems :)  If you're running that, I wonder if we oughtn't change the roadmap item to "glassfish integration" or something, rather than task identification for the server stack in general.
<dalibor> works for me
<persia> OK.  anything else?
<dalibor> nothing from me
<persia> OK.  That concludes the agenda.  Does anyone have any last minute items the'd like to mention or discuss?
<Koon> nope
<dalibor> nope - i won't be around next week, though
<persia> Well, then.  If nobody else has anything, I'd just like to say "Thank you" to dailbor for having dug through all the old meeting logs and brought the minutes up to date.
<persia> Thanks for coming today, and see most of you next week :)
<dalibor> thanks, I'll update the meetings again
<dalibor> eeeh ... minutes ;)
<persia> Thank you dalibor
<dalibor> thanks for  chairing the meetings, persia and see you in two weeks ;)
<Seveas> @now
<ubottu> Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting
<ma10> @now rome
<ubottu> Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting
<persia> stdin: Any ideas why ubottu thinks there's a meeting on?
<stdin> @reload Webcal
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<stdin> @now
<ubottu> Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting
 * stdin sighs
<stdin> @reload Webcal
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<stdin> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2008, 16:59:26 - Next meeting: MOTU in 1 day
<stdin> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release
<persia> That's looking much better, except it's missing at least three meetings scheduled for the 11th.
<persia> Is it pulling from fridge/events still, or the google calendar?
<stdin> the google one
<stdin> the bot has trouble with recurring events though
<persia> Oh, and I scheduled the Thursday meetings as recurring events.  I thought the trouble was with the fridge, rather than the bot.
<persia> Should I ask the news team to reschedule them as one-time meetings, or is that likely to be resolved soon enough it's not worth it?
<stdin> I've been trying to get it to work for months :p
<stdin> there is no standard way to parse ICal in python it seems, and any third-party modules do not handle events in a usable way
<persia> Lovely.
<persia> Do you need help?
<stdin> I can always use help :)
<persia> OK.  I'll call for help in #ubuntu-motu.  No idea if anyone will have an idea, but sometimes people are bored.
<persia> stdin: https://code.launchpad.net/~tsimpson/ubuntu-bots/tweak is the branch ubottu is running, right?
<stdin> persia: no, I haven't committed all the changes to the branch yet. http://jussi01.com/stdin/webcal-plugin.tar.gz is the current code
<persia> stdin: Any chance you could commit them somewhere?  I could pass people the url to the tar.gz, but I'd imagine you'd prefer a branch merge request to just patch files.
<persia> (especially if several people respond)
<stdin> persia: https://code.launchpad.net/~tsimpson/+junk/Webcal (when it appears)
<persia> stdin: I'll list that URL then.  Thanks.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 11 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-05
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 11 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team
<kirkland> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 05 2008, 20:05:02 - Current meeting: MOTU
<kirkland> is there a MOTU meeting today?
<geser> in theory yes
<geser> who is here for the MOTU meeting?
 * DktrKranz is here
<kirkland> o/
 * RainCT too
<RainCT> with one hour lagg :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 11 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-31
<fethi> want to join the ubuntu members, please tell what to do now
<fethi> is there any one who can help me
<Hobbsee> !member
<ubottu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<fethi> ok , gonna see it
<fethi> now , i read the page , an i click on the link to become a member , it took me to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<fethi> i chose europ middle east and africa
<fethi> i have a signed to code of conduct , i have an ssh key
<fethi> i thing i described everything , please help me
<czajkowski> fethi: come into #ubuntu-locoteams, in here really isnt a good option as meetings take place
<fethi> ok i joined it right now
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-01
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> moo
<lool> Hey
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090901
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090901
<plars> oink
<lool> plars and I are finishing a call
<paulliu> hi
<lool> and done
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<NCommander> woof
<lool> dyfet, persia, GrueMaster: ping
<GrueMaster> pong
<bjf> o/
<lool> Hey Brad
<NCommander> welcome to the party bjf
<bjf> hey lool :)
<dyfet> here
<ogra> party ?
<ogra> where are the drinks ?
<ogra> and crackers, i want crackers!
<NCommander> ogra, I thought you were bringing them
<lool> NCommander: lets start
<ogra> gah, you didnt add an action item for that
<NCommander> [action] ogra to bring the drinks and crackers
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to bring the drinks and crackers
<lool> i'm calling stevenk
<ogra> :P
<ogra> to late ...
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<NCommander> c/o. again.
 * GrueMaster wonders why he got up for this?
<ogra> what a surprise :P
<NCommander> I'll find some time to look at this
<lool> I just rang a couple of times at stevenk's home since its 11pm
<NCommander> [topic] # NCommander to rewrite arm-softbootloader-spec
<MootBot> New Topic:  # NCommander to rewrite arm-softbootloader-spec
 * StevenK shores
<NCommander> c/o, didn't get to it
<NCommander> shores?
<lool> hey StevenK :)
<ogra> NCommander, better than stranding
<StevenK> NCommander: It's what waves do at the beach
<NCommander> I thought a shore was where the ocean and land met ...
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to document dove bringup
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to document dove bringup
<NCommander> Done
<ogra> thats the noun
<lool> URL?
<NCommander> Looking for it
 * ogra waits for it :P
<NCommander> wiki being very slow
<ogra> excuses
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarvellDoveKarmicInstall
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarvellDoveKarmicInstall
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]
<ogra> hmm, why didnt you put it in the ARM namespace ?
<NCommander> ogra, mostly because it didn't occur to me
<GrueMaster> indefinite co
<NCommander> ok
 * NCommander strikes it
<lool> Pff my status update script is broken for some reason
<NCommander> [topic] Specification review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification review
 * NCommander kills his pager in real life
<lool> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html
<lool> http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/burndown.png is improving
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/burndown.png is improving
<lool> we're still pretty late though
<ogra> that shouldnt be a diagonal line :)
<lool> Well the problem is that the bars arent normalized
<ogra> rather a logarithmic curve :)
<lool> But your brain can do it if you picture it real hard
<ogra> from a distance, yes
<NCommander> lool, I'm partially to blame, I keep adding work items as I find there needed :-/
<plars> parabolic
 * NCommander has added a slew of them to his specs
<plars> is it bad when your burndown chart has an apex?
<StevenK> parabolic would never meet
<StevenK> OMG, we would never finish
<ogra> NCommander, dont do that ... solve them rather :)
<lool> dyfet: where's the lxde meta to sponsor?
<dyfet> Finally people came back, with LOTS of changes for the meta & seed, but only now over the weekend.  I am going to integrate, test, and upload after the soft freeze window on Friday
<lool> dyfet: Could you hand the meta to someone so that we can push it to universe ASAP
<NCommander> lool, well, that burndown change is taking in account some specs which probably should finally be marked deferred like arm-softbootloader
<ogra> NCommander, up to you to mark it like that
<dyfet> Okay...its in a bzr branch, so its also very easy to hand off...
<lool> [action] dyfet to get lxde-meta sponsored
<lool> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to get lxde-meta sponsored
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to get lxde-meta sponsored
<NCommander> dyfet, I can sponsor it if need be
<lool> ogra: on rootstock, did you file upstream bugs on the qemu issue?
<NCommander> dyfet, although you need an FFe at this point
<lool> ogra: kirkland might be able to help here I would guess
<dyfet> Then I need to at least verify a subset that are relevant to fixes...I can do that in about a hour
<ogra> lool, kirkland doesnt know about the userspace version
<ogra> lool, no upstream bugs yet
<ogra> i simply didnt do any work on it after the upload
<lool> StevenK: the unr wubi spec as been on "requires testing" since weeks (months?); you cant do the testing yourself?  Do we need to ask for someone's setup/help?
<ogra> i want to have proper straces before filing an upstream bug
<lool> ogra: Would be good to file an upstream bug ASAP if we want to fix it before release
<ogra> but imx51 is taking up my time atm
<ogra> lool, will do directly after A5
<StevenK> lool: I don't have access to a Windows install that I'm allowed to modify -- I've asked NCommander and GrueMaster and I'm still waiting ...
<lool> NCommander, GrueMaster: ^  are you blocked on testing for some reason?
<NCommander> lool, the only Windows machine on physical hardware I can use I only just got permission to do so. That being said, I confirmed wubi does work properly on Wine, and gets are far as setting up the installer
<GrueMaster> I don't have a Windows install readily available, but I have a licensed CD.  I've been spending most of the last couple of weeks fighting with my netbook (lost cause) and babbage issues.
<lool> NCommander: Using UNR?
<lool> StevenK: is that good enough?  ^
<NCommander> lool, yeah
<GrueMaster> For me to test it requires swapping out drives in my laptop, reinstalling Windows, then testing.
 * NCommander has to do something simiar
<StevenK> I'll look at doing something different
<StevenK> I'll report back next meeting
<lool> GrueMaster: On the UNR karmic spec, StevenK got the CD size below 700 MBs by removing langpacks but is waiting for your input if there's seed stuff he can change to gain space; how's your investigation progressing?
<paulliu> Hi.
<plars> seems like this could be tested well in a VM
<lool> hey paulliu
<StevenK> plars: I don't have a Windows license
<ogra> paulliu, you are ...
<lool> plars: I'm pretty sure that's how the wubi / u-i folks do it
<GrueMaster> I'm going to focus on that this week, since I am unable to do much testing.
<NCommander> StevenK, use an evalution version of Windows
<ogra> lool, are 700MB really needed for UNR ?
<lool> StevenK: FYI there's the xscreensaver stuff listed on the spec as assigned to you
<ogra> will cost us a lot of translations
<StevenK> lool: And if you check, it's already done
<lool> ogra: basically all except ja or something like that
<ogra> lool, but why ...
<lool> ogra: That said if desktop can do it we should be able to as well
 * ogra doesnt see a need to make it fit on a CD
<lool> StevenK: if you could update the blueprint I wouldnt have to check  :)
<StevenK> ja is on ship because it's like 1.5Mb
<lool> "Drop xscreensaver-gl and possibly more xscreensaver stuff (stevenk) [2 hours]: TODO"
<Hobbsee> lool: launchpad is slow to ye old australia.  It'd still be quicker for you to look it up and do it ;)
<lool> StevenK: Updated the spec now
<ogra> rss-glx
<GrueMaster> ogra: the idea is that a cd is easier to hand out at trade shows and other events.
<ogra> GrueMaster, as a DVD is
<lool> Hobbsee: eh
<ogra> and we wouldnt restrict us so much
<GrueMaster> cds cost 1/8 that of of a dvd.
<ogra> but you could fit 1G on them :)
<ogra> having all translationms on the image is a big advantage
<lool> plars: I dont remember: did we agree to push the test driver to the Ubuntu archive for mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting?
<ogra> would be sad to give that up
<StevenK> I've had both lool and davidm saying get the image below 700Mb
<plars> lool: no, it's just going in a bzr branch
<ogra> StevenK, bah
<GrueMaster> I agree.  That's why I want to look to see what junk is installed unnecessarily.  Like the cd burner software (which is still there btw).
<plars> lool: I don't see any benefit to packaging it
<lool> plars: mobile-qa-karmic-unr still says plan testcases, write needed tests, organize tests etc.: TODO; is this accurate?  Is this partially done?
<ogra> GrueMaster, but that wont free up much ...
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Are you reporting that from an upgraded image, or a daily?
<GrueMaster> daily.
 * StevenK checks
<lool> plars: if it's a binary it means it will be transitioned if we go through a transition
<plars> lool: mostly, just because it's not complete... in retrospect, it would have been better to break that down better
<GrueMaster> I don't do upgraded images, which unfortunately is why my netbook is down.  My SSD finally called it quits.
<lool> plars: Also it ensures people get lp built binaries and you get things like a source package bug page
<plars> lool: it's not binary
<lool> Ok
<lool> plars: I guess it's not a big difference then
<GrueMaster> Is there a reason we have multiple topics currently in discussion?
<lool> I personally prefer using packaged things when possible as it allows me to add/remove stuff cleanly, but for a special app like this it's ok
<NCommander> brb
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Because we can fit more into the meeting if it's multi-threaded
<lool> plars: Are we going to complete mobile-qa-karmic-unr for beta though?
<GrueMaster> yea, but at 6am, it doesn't take much for me to get lost.
<plars> lool: shouldn't be a problem
<lool> paulliu: No progress on mobile-unr-karmic-application-res I guess?  too busy with moblin stuff?
<lool> plars: OK, great
 * StevenK uses a laser pointer to distract GrueMaster 
<paulliu> lool: Yes. But I'll make some progress this week.
<lool> GrueMaster, StevenK: Do you guys have any questions on spec status or anything you'd like to highlight WRT specs?
<paulliu> lool: Bug fixing. I like it.
<lool> paulliu: Cool thanks
<GrueMaster> no
<lool> paulliu: Note that UI freeze is approaching and might block further work
<lool> I'm done with my Qs personally
<lool> Any other Qs pending?  Everybody done digesting spec status?
<paulliu> lool: Ubuntu Karmic 2 bugs left. Other are upstream works.
<lool> ogra, dyfet
<lool> paulliu: Ok cool
<ogra> none from me
<dyfet> nope
<lool> NCommander: moving on?
<StevenK> He did say 'brb'
<NCommander> I'm back
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> Um
<StevenK> Someone gaffa tape him to his chair for the meeting?
<NCommander> StevenK, what am I supposed to do when the doorbell rings, ignore it?
 * ogra goes shopping for some gaffa, brb
<NCommander> [topic] any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business
<StevenK> NCommander: Works for me
<ogra> :P
<lool> StevenK: I had added Review of seed changes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap I think we're up-to-date
<lool> NCommander: What about bugs?
<NCommander> ah
<lool> StevenK: Is this correct?
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<NCommander> I thought I sent that one
<StevenK> Although, if someone is ringing my doorbell at 11:30pm, I'm going to answer with a curse
<lool> StevenK: I think we're also up-to-date WRT to UNR upstream releases into karmic
<NCommander> [topic] bug #422414  	 Icons too dark with Dust
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #422414  	 Icons too dark with Dust
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 422414 in humanity-icon-theme "Icons too dark with Dust" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/422414
<StevenK> Hah, my bug
 * ogra hands Hobbsee a lamp
<Hobbsee> thanks!
 * Hobbsee could use that, with half the lights in this room gone
<ogra> and a towel to wipe off the dust
<Hobbsee> lets just say it made for *very* interesting debugging of network manager at university yesterday, when I couldn't see it.
<ogra> heh
 * ogra sees it if the screen is at full brightness
<lool> StevenK: is this really UNR specific?
<Hobbsee> it was
<StevenK> lool: Sure it is
<lool> Ok
<ogra> lool, well, its theme specific
<StevenK> lool: UNR is the only thing that uses Dust + Humanity
<lool> StevenK: Are you working on it?
<lool> Oh sorry I was looking at anothe rbug
 * lool is confused
 * StevenK waits for lool to be unconfused
<lool> StevenK: Did you raise this to Neil or someone maintaining the themes?
<lool> StevenK: Could you?
<StevenK> Certainly
<lool> Ok thanks
<lool> What I had loaded was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/ibus/+bug/420282
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420282 in ibus "ibus is in "other" category in the menu" [Undecided,New]
<lool> That one didn't seem UNR specific
<NCommander> [topic] bug #420282  	 ibus is in "other" category in the menu
<lool> I see it under the desktop too
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #420282  	 ibus is in "other" category in the menu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420282 in ibus "ibus is in "other" category in the menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420282
<StevenK> I'll be investigating that tomorrow with -desktop
<lool> unsubing unr and removing tag
<lool> Cool
<StevenK> So leave it for the moment
<lool> armel bugs
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<StevenK> It could be a launcher issue
<lool> ogra: Still nobody around for oo.o?
<ogra> i researched the sound device issues yesterady
<NCommander> [topic] bug #417009  	 all openoffice apps die in 'com::sun::star::ucb::InteractiveAugmentedIOException' on armel in karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #417009  	 all openoffice apps die in 'com::sun::star::ucb::InteractiveAugmentedIOException' on armel in karmic
<NCommander> oh
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417009 in openoffice.org "all openoffice apps die in 'com::sun::star::ucb::InteractiveAugmentedIOException' on armel in karmic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417009
<ogra> oo.o is raised with davidm
<NCommander> I guess we're not doing it that way
<lool> ogra: Could you ask rickspencer today?  he wanst at the release team meeting so i couldnt ask him myself
<ogra> he will talk to rick
<ogra> he wanted to do it himself
<lool> ok cool
<lool> ogra: tomboy, waiting for upstream?
<ogra> i will do more research on the mxcfb bug soon to add proper straces for usplash
<lool> ogra: 418265 Warning in ehci-hcd.c:911 on kernel 2.6.31-5-imx51  did kernel team ack?
<ogra> no
<ogra> and the description is wrong
<ogra> needs an update, GrueMaster mind to do it ?
<lool> ogra: Mind if I make you bug master for tracking the mx51 specific bugs?
<GrueMaster> Thought I already had.
<ogra> tomboy is waiting for me to find time, lokely after A5
<lool> ogra: I mean in this case GrueMaster filed it but it's easier if you're just tracking everything imx51
<ogra> i do
<lool> Ok cool
<lool> ogra: Could you sort out bug title with GrueMaster and move it on the kernel team's plate?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> its a weird one though
<lool> i intend to work with kernel team to setup a more explicit process but for now it's going to be "manual"
<ogra> apparently only GrueMaster has such issues
<ogra> cool
<lool> ogra: 420447 > assigned, fine
<lool> 391588 > banshee; dyfet: what's the progress here?
<ogra> yep and milestoned for A6
<GrueMaster> I haven't retried it since I am now able to image a SATA drive.  Will retest later today, but I doubt I'll see a change in the results.
<dyfet> I was in the middle of a new core dump for that...
<lool> 383240 > ffmpeg opts: lool you're fucking late on that one
<ogra> heh
<lool> lool: Ack
<lool> thunderbird/385325 I shall ping asac, he's back now
<ogra> half of it will be solved if we switch default options, no ?
<ogra> (ffmpeg that is)
<lool> ogra: 420555 mxcfb > whats up?
<lool> ogra: no it's for NEON
<lool> we dont turn on NEON
<ogra> ah
 * ogra points ^^^
<lool> 15:35 < ogra> i will do more research on the mxcfb bug soon to add proper  straces for usplash
<lool> ok
<ogra> right
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: I added ~ubuntu-moblin to the mix
<ogra> so we see which syscall is at fault
<lool> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<plars> lool: thanks
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin is empty for now though
<ogra> bugfreee !!!
<lool> Ok; I think we're done with bug review; are we?
<lool> Did I miss any?
<lool> Any comments/questions/other bugs?
<NCommander> I think you got them all
<lool> Any other bug which is not tracked for karmic and should be
<bjf> I have 2 questions:
<bjf> 1. ogra has the "BabbageImageFrromScratch" wiki page, will there be a similar one for Marvell Dove (i'm requesting one)
<bjf> 2. there will be no support for z0 boards?
<lool> (>= high that is)
<ogra> we'll surely see lots once the images are properly tested
<lool> bjf: We wont release an image for z boards but we're happy that you put together a kernel package for it as that allows people with one to install 100% from archive
<ogra> bjf, 2) no there will be perbuilt image
<NCommander> bjf, one exists for using images which we should have today or tomorrow
<plars> lool: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-moblin-remix/+bug/420664 doesn't show up on either of your moblin queries
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420664 in ubuntu-moblin-remix "No way to power off/logout/reboot" [Undecided,New]
<ogra> bjf, for 1) i can lend NCommander a hand
<bjf> ogra, lool, NCommander thanks
<lool> bjf: Basicallly we try to support older platforms like babbage 1 or dove z0, but it's best effort and in this case adding an extra pass to build a special image for z0 would be a lot space + time
<ogra> lool, well, DoveImageFromScratch would solve it
<NCommander> lool, well, we could create a netinstall z0 image pretty trivially, its just a config file in d-i
<NCommander> s/netinstall/netboot/g
<ogra> but that needs to be written :)
<bjf> lool, I understand the issue, it's just that there are not enough Y* boards to go around
<lool> bjf: Reasons being that we'd need another level of differenciation on cdimage (armel+dove and armel+dove+z0), double the QA time etc. etc.
<lool> bjf: Agreed
<lool> bjf: this is being slowly fixed though
<bjf> lool, any news on more Y* boards?
<lool> NCommander: Oh sure do that if you like
<lool> NCommander: Can you action yourself to create a DoveImageFromScratch and a netboot install for z0?
<lool> bjf: Anmar and I are discussing with Mvl but it's very complex
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to create netboot install for z0
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to create netboot install for z0
<lool> they are short of Y boards and cant provide as many to cover all our needs
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to create DoveImageFromScratch
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to create DoveImageFromScratch
<bjf> lool, ack
<lool> There are many params in place
<lool> bjf: Youre on top of the list for a y1 though for obvisou reasons
<lool> bjf: Does that answer your questions?
<lool> bjf: i guess it did :)
<lool> NCommander: AOB?
<NCommander> [topic] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<lool> NCommander: mind pinging njpatel next week at beginning of meeting so that he can join?
<ogra> please all help on the ftbfs list
<ogra> for armel
<lool> Ah some notes here
<ogra> so we get proper images
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to ping njpatel at start of next weeks minute
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to ping njpatel at start of next weeks minute
<NCommander> :-)
<lool> there just was a mass give back: all packages will be retried
<NCommander> That way it will happen
<NCommander> er
<lool> If packages are failing due to lack of memory, we need to talk to IS to schedule a build
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to ping njpatel at start of next weeks meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to ping njpatel at start of next weeks meeting
<ogra> right, but we currently lack webkit and empathy for working images
<lool> NCommander: it's like every week  :)
<ogra> i'm working on webkit atm
<GrueMaster> I hate to bring more bad news to the table, but I am really limited on testing this week.  First I am traveling to Georgia on Wed (wife's plan, not mine and it was scheduled before the sprint).  Second, my netbook SSD died, and is going in for warranty replacement.
<bjf> lool, sorry, yes, my questions are all answered, thanks
<lool> GrueMaster: Will you travel with a laptop + virtualbox images?
<NCommander> I figured out why the dove images are currently broken
<NCommander> For some good news
<GrueMaster> That's the only option.
<NCommander> We will hopefully have bootable dove images for A5
<NCommander> Maybe even installable, depending if we get a kernel upload before A5, and I can get partman-auto and flash-kernel in line
<lool> GrueMaster: Well I had others  :)  but at least you'll be able to do some virtual testing
<GrueMaster> I won't be able to test arm images.
<ogra> NCommander, "hopefully" ?
<lool> NCommander: I need to move flash-kernel to bzr BTW
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> ++
<NCommander> lool, please put it somewhere I can commit to :-/
<ogra> we *will* have bootable dove images for A5
<ogra> ~ubuntu-mobile
<NCommander> ogra, as long as we get squashfs
<ogra> bootable :P
<lool> It might end on the ubuntu-installer umbrella, not sure yet
<lool> Need to check it out with these folks
<lool> Ok anybody anything to raise?
<lool> NCommander: thanks a lot for chairing every week BTW
<NCommander> Its fine
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:51.
<lool> thanks all
<ogra> thanks
<Daviey> o/
<kirkland> o/
<mathiaz> hello
<ttx> o-
<mathiaz> let's get the server team started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last week's meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090825
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] FFE for bacula
<MootBot> New Topic:  FFE for bacula
<mathiaz> so we decided we would not push bacula 3.0.X in karmic
<mathiaz> but instead make it available in a ppa
<ikonia> mathiaz: any reason ?
<ikonia> (not agruing, curious)
<mathiaz> ikonia: to late in the release cycle
<mathiaz> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bacula/+archive/ppa
<Daviey> mathiaz: will it be mentioned in the ubuntu-server-guide?
<ikonia> mathiaz: is it not better to hold it back until next release/later rather than introduce another PPA from an end user point of view ?
<mathiaz> ^^ seems that ivoks pushed the packages in a ppa
<nijaba> o/ (sorry to be late)
<ikonia> a lot is being pushed into PPA's at the moment (not just server teams stuff)
<mathiaz> Daviey: I don't think so - there is no official support/maintainance for bacula 3.0.X in karmic
<Daviey> ok
<mathiaz> we're just making it available to interested users
<Daviey> sounds wise.
<ikonia> mathiaz: that's not how it normally works though, but that's a supportability discussion for another meeting
<mathiaz> ikonia: the official bacula version in karmic will by 2.4
<ikonia> mathiaz: that's great, I have no problem with that
<mathiaz> allright - anything else to add on the topic (bacula 3.0.X)?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Asterisk
<MootBot> New Topic:  Asterisk
<mathiaz> what's the state of this?
<mathiaz> Daviey: ^^
<Daviey> mathiaz: jmdault's changes are pushed
<mathiaz> Daviey: did you get a chance to follow this?
<mathiaz> Daviey: have all the packages been updated?
<Daviey> mathiaz: it's all resolved.. no hiccups
 * ivoks o/
<Daviey> mathiaz: yes.
<mathiaz> Daviey: so Asterisk 1.6 is in karmic
<Daviey> mathiaz: However, there was poor success with getting dahdi-dkms into debian :(
<Daviey> mathiaz: yes
<Daviey> mathiaz: so for karmic, we are carrying the dkms ourselves
<mathiaz> Daviey: great - thanks for giving a short status.
<mathiaz> Daviey: that's fine. As long as discussion is still going with Debian
<mathiaz> Daviey: we may be able to convince in time for the next release.
<Daviey> mathiaz: gone quiet.. but will keep the issue going.
<mathiaz> anything else to add on the Asterisk front?
<Daviey> (that is an ACTION :) )
<mathiaz> [ACTION] Daviey to follow up with the Asterisk Debian maintainers about adopting dkms for dahdi
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to follow up with the Asterisk Debian maintainers about adopting dkms for dahdi
<Daviey> mathiaz: not really, some people have mentioned instability in the version that is there (debian unstable version).. so call for testing would be prudent.
<mathiaz> Daviey: sure - a blog post can be helpfull
<Daviey> yeah.. i have some pretty large sites with asterisk 1.4/1.6.. i could try them and see if they go bang :)
<mathiaz> Daviey: we've moved to bug fixing mode in karmic - it doesn't mean it's rock solid yet
<mathiaz> testing is the main focus now
<Daviey> yep.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] Daviey to call for testing of Asterisk 1.6
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to call for testing of Asterisk 1.6
<mathiaz> great - let's move on.
<Daviey> great.
<mathiaz> that's all I had from last week minutes
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<ivoks> bacula?
<ivoks> i was late :/
<mathiaz> ivoks: pushed to the PPA
<ivoks> right
<ttx> ivoks: yes, you were :P
<mathiaz> ivoks: which was the ACTION from last meeting
<mathiaz> ivoks: anything else to add on this front?
<ivoks> nope...
<mathiaz> great - let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review
<ttx> yay
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<Daviey> \o/
<mathiaz> last week fixed bug^^
<mathiaz> anything worth considering for an SRU?
<Daviey> jmdault: o/
<jmdault> hello, sorry I'm late
<mathiaz> does't seem anything worthy on this list
<ttx> nothing worth nominating on my side
<Daviey> none of them shout out as SRU worthy IMO.
<mathiaz> let's move on to the next list:
<mathiaz> http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<ttx> those were here last week, istr we said we'd accept them
<mathiaz> ok - accepting them now
<mathiaz> next: http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> doesn't seem SRU worthy to me
<ttx> we discussed them last week and decided to decline them iirc
<mathiaz> allright - declining them then
<mathiaz> next: http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> ivoks: bug 282876?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282876 in drbd8 "drbd doesn't start on boot" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282876
<ivoks> let me look
<ttx> Those were here last week as well... istr we decided to accept them
<Daviey> bug 257682, was certainly there last week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257682 in bind9 "dig compiled without -DDIG_SIGCHASE!" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257682
<ivoks> mathiaz: this was fixed in jaunty
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - should it tried to SRU in intrepid?
<ivoks> mathiaz: i'll have to check, we didn't have problems with drbd starting on intrepid
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - we'll accept it
<ivoks> ok
<mathiaz> ivoks: it doesn't mean we'll have to fix it intrepid
<ivoks> sure
<mathiaz> ivoks: the next step is to try to make sure it's reproducable on intrepid
<mathiaz> ivoks: one of the outcome may be that it's SRU worthy afterall
<mathiaz> so - seems like all the intrepid bugs should be accepted
<mathiaz> let's move on to the last list: http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
<ttx> this one should be refused
<ttx> if it's in Jaunty it's not the same bug
<mathiaz> allright - that's all for the list of nominated bugs
<mathiaz> the next step is to review the list of accepted bugs and check on the assigned ones
<mathiaz> I haven't had time to compile such a list relevant to the ubuntu-server team
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team.
<mathiaz> anything else to say on the SRU weekly review?
<mathiaz> ok - let's move to the next topic
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] MIR for ubuntu-fortunes and default install
<MootBot> New Topic:  MIR for ubuntu-fortunes and default install
<mathiaz> nijaba: ^^?
<nijaba> well, I was wondering if it was a good time to file a mir for our tips
<Daviey> So, fortunes-ubuntu-server is no in karmic.. some slight reshuffling with the packages.. but it's there
<nijaba> Daviey: how do you feel about this
<Daviey> more tips would be good before being default install IMO
<mathiaz> Daviey: what's the name of the package?
<Daviey> but otherwise, i think it would be great.
<Daviey> nijaba: fortunes-ubuntu-server
<Daviey> nijaba: initially it was 2 packages, one for the fortunes and the other for the scripts
<nijaba> Daviey: I don't think quantity is that important
<Daviey> nijaba: repitition might make it rather pointless.
<nijaba> Daviey: well, maybe, but I am not sure people will look at them every time they login anyway
<mathiaz> what would be the end user experience on a default install?
<Daviey> However, i'm expecting a few more uploads before karmic release.. so it might be a good idea to MIR it sooner rather than later, and still expet to update it's cookies.
<nijaba> mathiaz: just a couple lines of tips added to the motd
<nijaba> mathiaz: note that we remved quite a few line of legal blurb after first loging
<kirkland> so we have some newly freed up space in the motd, since we only display the warranty once
<Daviey> mathiaz: keeping in mind that the currentl plan is to hide the copyright notice once a user initially logs in.
<kirkland> we've basically freed up 6-7 lines
<kirkland> the tip would nicely fit in that space
<mathiaz> so whenever someone logs in a default karmic server, they'd see the warranty message, then the landscape-sysinfo messages and then a fortune?
<nijaba> nope, the prio would be 60
<nijaba> mathiaz: so sysinfo would be last
<kirkland> it might be just a little late in karmic to try and put this into the default server install
<kirkland> mathiaz: only see the warranty on first login
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok
<kirkland> mathiaz: on *each user's* first login
<mathiaz> Daviey: how fortunes are there?
<Daviey> err, good question
<Daviey> ~30
<nijaba> kirkland: this is done, right?
<kirkland> nijaba: well, updates-available and reboot-required would be last
<nijaba> kirkland: right
<mathiaz> kirkland: why would it be too late?
<kirkland> nijaba: yes, warranty stuff is already in karmic
<kirkland> mathiaz: well, it would require an FFE
<Daviey> mathiaz: there are 32 committed, in the package
<nijaba> kirkland: so it is just a package couple package to seed after the mir is done, right
<kirkland> mathiaz: that's all i'm saying, really
<Daviey> socertainly enough for 1 per day, each month :)
<kirkland> nijaba: yes, it's not hard
<kirkland> nijaba: MIR, add to the default ubuntu-server seed -- technically that's all
<nijaba> kirkland: agreed
<nijaba> kirkland: so do we have an agreement that it should be done?  if so I'll gladly file the MIR
<Daviey> so, should we try and put it in the default seed?
<kirkland> nijaba: i think so... here's why ...
<kirkland> nijaba: 1) we've freed up some space in an 80x24 motd (with the warranty stuff only printed once)
<kirkland> nijaba: 2) the performance/runtime impact is negligible
<kirkland> nijaba: 3) it is a friendly, nice ubuntu-ish differentiator
<Daviey> it's actually quite ground breaking stuff.. i can't think of any other enterprise server distro that offers helpful tips.
<kirkland> nijaba: so, +1 vote from me... get the MIR + FFE written, approved, and seeded into the default ubuntu install
<nijaba> ttx: do you agree?
<Daviey> On the other side, if it is somewhat unpopular.. it's easy enough to pull in karmic+1.
<kirkland> Daviey: it's easy enough to pull by beta
<Daviey> kirkland: very true.
<kirkland> Daviey: it would be nice to get it into alpha5/alpha6 and see if anyone craps themself
<nijaba> kirkland: I do know how to file a MIR, but not an FFe
<ttx> I'd go for karmic+1 with UDS discussion
<Daviey> kirkland: +1
<ttx> but if someone wants to file a FFe for it, why not
<mathiaz> nijaba: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<Daviey> Whilst on the server-tips discussion, it would be really nice to have some more tips from the server team :)
<kirkland> Daviey: yeah, sorry, i've been meaning to throw some out there
<Daviey> nijaba: did you get a chance to chase the short urls, froma few meetings ago?
<kirkland> Daviey: can we braindump these on you, and you clean them up, commit them?
<Daviey> kirkland: it's "hard" to think of useful ones, i know from myself.
<Daviey> kirkland: raising a bug on LP, works quite well
<nijaba> Daviey: I did, and I think we have an agreement that it would be nice, but no timeframe for im^plementation
<Daviey> then, the description field can be edited.
<Daviey> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-server-tips
<mathiaz> allright - anything else to add on this topic?
<Daviey> no :)
<nijaba> mathiaz: ok, so I'll fill a MIR and an FFe before next meeting
<Daviey> nijaba: great!
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to write up a MIR and and file a FFe for fortunes-ubuntu-server
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to write up a MIR and and file a FFe for fortunes-ubuntu-server
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<delphiexile> ok
<delphiexile> what about the meeting today
<mathiaz> jmdault: Daviey reported that the Asterisk had been updated to 1.6 in karmic
<mathiaz> jmdault: thanks for driving this
<Daviey> (and jmdault's changes are merged)
<jmdault> mathiaz: yes
<jmdault> dahdi and asterisk are fully merged
<mathiaz> jmdault: cool - next step: call for testing
<jmdault> I'll have to file a FFE for asterisk-addons though, but that's minor
<mathiaz> jmdault: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<jmdault> mathiaz: what's the best way to get attention?
<mathiaz> jmdault: follow the process outlined above?
<mathiaz> jmdault: is the package in universe or main?
<Daviey> jmdault: I was planning on blogging it, which will be on planet.ubuntu.com
<jmdault> Daviey: great
<jmdault> mathiaz: in Universe
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - so ask ScottK about getting the exception
<jmdault> ok
<mathiaz> jmdault: he is handling server related packages for the motu-release team
<mathiaz> anything else to add to the discussion?
<jmdault> no
<jmdault> Daviey: keep me in touch for the blog post
<Daviey> jmdault: wilco, welcome to help me construct this :)
<jmdault> of course
<jmdault> mathiaz: oh, yes, I got another thing to add. I have a bunch of extra packages that will not make it into Karmic, but will be uploaded in the ubuntu voip ppa
<mathiaz> jmdault: what kind of packages?
<jmdault> like the asterisk gui, it's promising, but it needs work
<Daviey> jmdault: so promising, that digium don'teven ship it on there distro anymore :)
<jmdault> and I have extra sound files (spanish and french), but ideally, they should be in Debian as well
<Daviey> great.
<jmdault> Daviey: if there's no gui, I have to tell the receptionist to ssh into asterisk, and edit users.conf by hand.. ;-)
<Daviey> :)
<mathiaz> allright - anything else to add before we wrap up
<mathiaz> ?
<jmdault> nope
<Daviey> not i
<ivoks> nope
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
<Daviey> as always :)
<jmdault> yup
<ttx> ok
 * alexm is sorry for being missing for a while
<mathiaz> all right then.
<mathiaz> see you all next week, same place, same time
<alexm> ok
<mathiaz> don't forget iso testing for alpha5
<mathiaz> that is scheduled for this Thursday
<mathiaz> iso candidates are already up and waiting for testing
<mathiaz> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<mathiaz> thanks
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:59.
<Daviey> thanks mathiaz
<lieb> Notice:  The ubuntu-kernel meeting regularly scheduled for 1700UTC on this channel has been cancelled for this week due to a significant number of kernel team members on travel or holiday this week.  The meeting will resume next week, Sept 8, 1700UTC
<DisasteR> hi
<popey> phanatic.. Pricey ?
<popey> stgraber ..
<niko> is there a meeting now ?
<popey> should be
<markvandenborre> sorry I'm a bit late...
<popey> hi markvandenborre
<pgquiles> niko: there is according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<popey> just you and me so far
<DisasteR> hi
<markvandenborre> as in: noone else, not even candidates?
<DisasteR> i'm candidate
<bernard-opic> Good evening, I'm here
<kelemengabor> me too
<markvandenborre> ok, perfect
<popey> we need more than 2 of 6  imo
<bernard-opic> I can wait for them a bit :-)
<popey> markvandenborre: could you mail the list pls, my mail is down :(
<stgraber> hello
<markvandenborre> hi stgraber
<DisasteR> hi
<bernard-opic> hello
<phanatic> hey, sorry for being late
<stgraber> weird, looks like my cell forgot about that meeting ... I thought I had setup a reminder for it ...
<popey> yay
<popey> 4/6
<popey> thats good
<popey> right, who's up first, bernard-opic
<popey> bernard-opic: did we not talk to you at our last meeting?
<bernard-opic> So, I'm back again :-)
<bernard-opic> sure
<bernard-opic> Since the last session I attended in August, I followed the advices that your team gave me and I reviewed my Wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bernard-opic.
<bernard-opic> I hope you found it more attractive than the previous one, and more informative too.
<bernard-opic> I'll be pleased to answer your questions now.
<popey> am just re-reading the logs from last time
<bernard-opic> I was not ready at all in August. I apologize for that
<phanatic> you now have very good testimonials
<bernard-opic> thanks
<popey> for me the wiki page seems a bit thin
<popey> its tricky for someone in an advocacy / marketing role
<bernard-opic> Well, I'm open to any suggestion
<markvandenborre> I tend towards +1: movement in the right direction on both wiki and endorsements
<popey> I too am tending towards +1 for the good testimonials
<markvandenborre> wiki... I mean... using common channels like ubuntu-fr.org more
<markvandenborre> (instead of more personal channels)
<phanatic> definitely an improvement, and really good testimonials. +1
<bernard-opic> i did my best to present myself, but I'm surely better in the action
<popey> i note for example that the security announcements are on an external blog
<popey> not within the wiki or on some ubuntu mailing list
<stgraber> +1 for good testimonials
<popey> which is where I'd expect them to be
<bernard-opic> popey: I'm ready to publish the USN translation on an Ubuntu Wiki page
<popey> i dont know if a wiki page is the right thing or not..
<popey> but when i see that _all_ of someones contributions lie in a 3rd party blog it makes me uneasy
<bernard-opic> may be the security team can answers that question
<markvandenborre> popey: that was the case before...
<popey> indeed
<popey> i wasnt around at that meeting though markvandenborre
<bernard-opic> popey: I contribute where I can, don't you think that ZDNet France blog is not a good place for advocacy?
<popey> http://blogs.media-tips.com/bernard.opic/category/ubuntu-security-notices/ thats not zdnet
<bernard-opic> did you miss Ubuntu & Co?
<bernard-opic> http://www.zdnet.fr/blogs/ubuntu-co/
<popey> the point is somewhat moot, given you have 4 +1s :)
<markvandenborre> congratulations!
<popey> indeed, congrats! I look forward to seeing your blog posts syndicated on planet ubuntu :)
<bernard-opic> Many many thanks to you all, I'm very proud
<bernard-opic> popey: I'll have to post in english too now :-)
<popey> :)
<popey> i get the benefit then :)
<bernard-opic> ;-)
<markvandenborre> sarvatt not here it seems
<markvandenborre> ?
<popey> looks that way
<popey> pgquiles: you're up
<pgquiles> popey: here I am
<popey> pgquiles: your wiki page seems 'light'
<pgquiles> popey: what additional information should I put in?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership -> Preparation
<popey> pgquiles: have you considered going the MOTU route?
<markvandenborre> I'm sorry, but I'd rather you first have a decent look at this before we even try to judge
<pgquiles> popey: I'm a Debian maintainer, my packages come to Ubuntu through Debian
<pgquiles> popey: wrt wiki, the only thing IMHO I'm missing is the fourth point "# Your plans and ideas for Ubuntu in the near and far future "
<popey> there is also a section on testimonials
<popey> the problem with the main contribution being a ppa is that we have no way of knowing if it's actually being used
<popey> and by how many people
<pgquiles> popey: the only Ubuntu member I know is Riddell, from KDE. I also get lots of e-mails from non-members thanking me from my PPA, but that won't count according to the membership page
<popey> and so its hard to gauge your contribution to ubuntu
<pgquiles> popey: if you take a look at my PPA, I'd say it'd be rather easy to gauge my contribution to ubuntu
<markvandenborre> I'm not saying your contribution isn't valuable, but it's rather hard for me to judge right here
<popey> stgraber / phanatic ?
<pgquiles> markvandenborre: ok, so what do I do? I get thank you e-mails for my PPA from non-members, so that does not count. I know no members. How am I supposed to get testimonials from members?
<phanatic> pgquiles: do you happen to know some people from MOTU maybe?
<pgquiles> phanatic: no. I never quite got into MOTU because I'm a Debian maintainer. The MOTU route does not make sense in my case.
<popey> you're certainly unusual in that regard
<phanatic> pgquiles: it's interesting, because we ought to judge community and advocacy activities, not develpment
<pgquiles> popey: I preferred to go directly to upstream (Debian) :-)
<phanatic> and you work is closer to development imho
<phanatic> your
<pgquiles> phanatic: indeed it is. In fact, the main reason I want to get membership is to post to planet ubuntu. I wanted to blog about my backport of firefox 3.5.2 to hardy.
<popey> Ok. How about this. I am quite happy that you're clearly making a contribution, and it seems to be a sustained one.
<pgquiles> I thought that'd be interesting and useful for some people but it seems they won't get the news
<pgquiles> popey: mine is one of the first PPAs, according to celso
<popey> pgquiles: you haven't blogged since april ;)
<popey> (on your website linked from your lp page)
<pgquiles> popey: yeah, I've been quite busy at work. Either I blog twice every day with what I'm working on, or I don't blog at all
<popey> I am wondering if we should speak to MOTU / Daniel Holbach about this.
<popey> I suspect your contribution is significant enough to warrant it
<pgquiles> I don't know him
<popey> it's just hard for me to tell
<popey> I do
<pgquiles> great
<popey> would you (and markvandenborre / phanatic / stgraber ) mind leaving it with me, and I will speak to Daniel about it tomorrow?
<pgquiles> no problem
<markvandenborre> perfect
<stgraber> I'm fine with that
<phanatic> popey: sure, please do
<markvandenborre> or _maybe_
<markvandenborre> (but I'm threading _very_ lightly here)
<popey> groovy. I will mail everyone so it's all in the open
<popey> heh
 * popey tickles markvandenborre 
<popey> thanks for the understanding pgquiles, much appreciated
<popey> right, who's next
<markvandenborre> some testimonials from _Debian_ people would also help...
<markvandenborre> ok, next
<DisasteR> kelemengabor i think
<DisasteR> and me after
<kelemengabor> sure
<popey> kelemengabor: you're up!
<kelemengabor> Hi, I'm Gabor Kelemen, leader of the Hungarian Ubuntu translation team. My wiki page is
<kelemengabor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GaborKelemen and my job is to keep up the illusion of end
<kelemengabor> users, who think "Ubuntu is completely localized to Hungarian"
<popey> haha
<toros> I am here to support kelemengabor's memberhsip. He plays key role in the Hungarian LoCo.
<toros> As key translator of Ubuntu, Gnome, and other floss projects, he is one of the most important free software activists in the country.
<phanatic> kelemengabor is the founder of the hungarian ubuntu translation team. we had a translation team before having a loco, and he played a really important part in establishing both of thos teams. i support his application.
<popey> wow, impressive translation stats
<popey> ok, that's a +1 from me
<markvandenborre> +1
<phanatic> +1, i missed that :)
<stgraber> +1
<popey> woot
<popey> full house
<popey> congratulations kelemengabor, keep up the good work!
<kelemengabor> Thank you guys :)
<phanatic> welcome kelemengabor, finally :)
<DisasteR> fast .. ^^
<McPeter> :)
<popey> DisasteR: how do you do most of your support? irc, formus, launchpad, mailing list ?
<McPeter> irc/wiki (fr)
<DisasteR> irc essentially
<DisasteR> and wiki
<DisasteR> wiki mailling list too
<popey> what's the top issue people have at the moment? :)
<markvandenborre> can you point me at an irc log you're really proud of?
<DisasteR> its often smimilar problems
<markvandenborre> (I read french quite fluently, no problem)
<DisasteR> :/ i never log my conversations
<niko> can i enter into this ? ( with #ubuntu-fr admin hat - like McPeter )
<popey> go for it
<McPeter> markvandenborre, i have a log .. (in french)
<McPeter> if you need i can search
<niko> for years he provide constant helps on #ubuntu-fr, a regular helper, always great and usefull
<popey> well based on great testimonials I'd be happy to go +1
<niko> he also fix lot of wiki typo, and wrote usefull pages
<phanatic> years of help means sustained contributions, and also very good testimonials: +1
<DisasteR> i also have participated to the discutions for the new ubuntu-fr design
<markvandenborre> +1 sorry phonecall
<popey> stgraber: ?
 * popey pokes stgraber 
<McPeter> :)
<DisasteR> he go to grab a coffe .. ^^
<DisasteR> i need one too :p
<stgraber> sorry
<McPeter> hope DisasteR , hope :)
<markvandenborre> I'm back
<DisasteR> :)
<stgraber> ok, just read the backlog: +1
<popey> \o/
<popey> congratulations
<popey> and phew! with 5 mins to spare
<markvandenborre> fÃ©licitations
<DisasteR> Thanx :p
<DisasteR> merci :)
<popey> :)
<popey> i love that word
<DisasteR> merci merci merci :p
<popey> no, fÃ©licitations
<popey> :)
<DisasteR> oh :/
<McPeter> bravo DisasteR :)
<McPeter> bienvenue
<DisasteR> merci de ta participation McPeter :)
<McPeter> y're welcome á´â¿á´
<popey> bernard-opic / DisasteR / kelemengabor - I have added you to the Ubuntu Members group on launchpad
<bernard-opic> Great, thanks to the team and congratulations/fÃ©licitations to the new members
<DisasteR> thanks for your time :)
<popey> back to sleep....
<niko> bravo for all new member
<markvandenborre> 'night
<Technoviking> afternoon
<elmo> evening
<kelemengabor> thanks to everyone :)
<Technoviking> elmo: hello sir, anyone else here for The CC meeting
<elmo> I've just texted sabdfl
<elmo> and pinged mkde
<elmo> dholbach isn't online
<popey> he's at a bbq
<elmo> dholbach or mdke?
<popey> dholbach
<elmo> ok
<Technoviking> that is only an excuse since bbq is so yummy:)
<popey> Meat is murder.
<popey> Tasty tasty murder.
<Technoviking> btw, my wireless connection is shaky at best, may drop off, will return asap if I do
<elmo> ok, well, we're going to struggle to make quorum I guess
<elmo> no response from mdke or sabdfl
<elmo> do we have anything urgent on the agenda, or not even urgent, just something we should spend time on without quorum?
<Technoviking> the only thing are the wiki licensing which need mdke or dholbach and Ubuntu One?
<elmo> I'm not sure we can usefully do much with Ubuntu One
<elmo> I believe mdke wrote a mail about the wiki which I should probably read/respond to, since he invoked me
<Technoviking> any questions for the CC?
<elmo> ok, well, I guess that's one very short CC meeting then
<Technoviking> Well a quiet community is a happy community
<Technoviking> We will meeting again in two weeks, thanks for coming
<sabdfl> sorry i'm late
<elmo> sabdfl: hi
<sabdfl> thanks for the sms elmo
<elmo> sabdfl: we were about to call it a day, it's only technoviking, you and I
<elmo> sabdfl: but since you're here, was there anything on the agenda, or anything about the elections you wanted to discuss?
<sabdfl> TB election wrapped up yesterday
<sabdfl> i saw some commentssaying that folks didn't get the invitation to vote
<sabdfl> just within Canonical. is there any wavering on our desire to use CIVS for the CC election?
<sabdfl> it might just have been spam filtering as usual
<sabdfl> not sure how to improve on that without fully setting up CIVS and hacking it e.g. to set me as the sender
<sabdfl> and gpg messages etc
<sabdfl> if not, let's go ahead
<sabdfl> i'm waiting for a go-ahead from dholbach of final list of candidates, and URL's to their platforms
<delphiexile> please
<delphiexile> wait
<delphiexile> i want to join the ubuntu members team
<sabdfl> delphiexile: you need to line yourself up to talk to one of the regional members boards
<delphiexile> like who
<delphiexile> ??
<sabdfl> like goooooooogle it
<sabdfl> elmo, anything else?
<delphiexile> am i late
<delphiexile> ??
<Daviey> delphiexile: -> pm
<elmo> sabdfl: I think that covers it
<delphiexile> the meeting begun at 20:00 UTC , but there is no defined period for the end
<sabdfl> okdokey elmo
<sabdfl> AOB?
<Technoviking> back, ^#@#*!@#& wireless
<sabdfl> delphiexile: we've delegate membership to a different set of groups that provide better timezone cover. I'm sure Daviey will clarify
<sabdfl> Technoviking: AOB?
<Technoviking> AOB?
<elmo> any other business
<elmo> Technoviking: ^--
<Technoviking> none here
<sabdfl> okdokey
<sabdfl> well, that's a wrap
<sabdfl> thanks all
<popey> delphiexile / Daviey all sorted?
<Daviey> popey: think so :)
<sabdfl> election announcement will go out via CIVS
<sabdfl> till then,
<sabdfl> night
<Daviey> o/
<elmo> thanks all
<hfz> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-02
<ara> moshi moshi
<fader_> bonan matenon :)
<cr3> yo ma homies
<schwuk> lo all
<davmor2> hello
<pedro_> hola hola
<sbeattie> hey
<bdmurray> hi
<marjo> hi folks, sorry i'm late
<marjo> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:07. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> On Thursday 27 of August we celebrated a bug day based on Totem
<pedro_> ~30 Bugs were Triaged https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090827
<pedro_> Thanks a lot to our bug day heroes: kamus, azimout, alex-hunziker, paulduf
<pedro_> And a couple of weeks ago I saw a message of asac saying that he might need help dealing with the big quantity of New bugs on network-manager
<asac> yay!!
<pedro_> currently ~344
<bdmurray> heh
<pedro_> so we are  going to help him doing a hug day based on Network-Manager
<pedro_> which is going to happen Tomorrow!
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090903
<pedro_> the page is already created and filed with tons of bugs, if you wanna help just show up at #ubuntu-bugs and we'll help you to start with that
<marjo> anything else, pedro?
<pedro_> marjo, nope, that's it
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> SRU activity ticked up a bit over the past week...
<sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-08-26):
<sbeattie> * Jaunty: 5 new in -proposed (glibc, gnome-terminal, linux, mesa, sun-java6), 6 pushed to -up
<sbeattie> dates (app-install-data-partner, farsight, goffice, mesa, mjpegtools, pygobject)
<sbeattie> * Intrepid: 1 new in proposed (linux), 2 pushed to updates (goffice, parted)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 5 new in proposed (cdrom-detect, debian-installer-utils, postgresql-common (fix for regression in update), sun-java5, sun-java6), 3 pushed to -updates (glibc, postgresql-common(introduced regression), sudo)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new in proposed (sun-java5), 0 pushed to updates.
<sbeattie> Thanks to poelzi, Antonio SÃ¡nchez, Johan van Dijk, Magnus, Pjotr12345, testcees, Ian McMichael, linfidel, Filofel, sarmbruster, CypherHackz, and Joel Ebel for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> As always, help in testing out SRU fixes in the various -proposed pockets would be appreciated.
<sbeattie> That's all I have on SRUs, unless there are any questions.
<cr3> sbeattie: ugh, I hear sun-java* testing is a pain :(
<marjo> any questions for Steve?
<marjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 5 iso testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 5 iso testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> cr3: yeah, fortunately, we had some testers give feedback on the sun-java6 packages.
<sbeattie> Just wanted to remind everyone that Alpha 5 iso testing is going on over in #ubuntu-testing
<cr3> sbeattie: maybe we should consider adding the java test suite to checkbox
<cr3> sbeattie: ... so that we can make the life easier of our community
<sbeattie> cr3: that's an idea.
<sbeattie> davmor2: do you want to say anything on how iso testing is going so far?
<davmor2> Mostly it isn't
<cr3> davmor2: still stuck on fsck? :)
<davmor2> Respins are happening now across the board
<cr3> davmor2: that buggy_init_scripts workaround is wonderfuly, by the way :)
<davmor2> cr3 no that is being ignored
<sbeattie> davmor2: due to the apturl issue?
<cr3> davmor2: so if you're testing a bunch of machines, adding this to your preseed could save you some time: echo '[options]' >> /etc/e2fsck.conf; echo 'buggy_init_scripts = 1' >> /etc/e2fsck.conf... add that to the late_command
<davmor2> main issues are grub2 eucalyptus and other minor updates that people need to add to mobile
<davmor2> mvo added a fix for upgrades and others yay
<sbeattie> davmor2: cool, thanks for the update.
<davmor2> so hopefully in the next hour or so all the isos will be up and we can start testing :)
<marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
<sbeattie> Oh, BTW, I've made a python version of the dl-ubuntu-test-iso script in the ubuntu-qa-tools package; it will take advantage of the added zsync files.
<marjo> davmor2: anything else?
<davmor2> no
<sbeattie> It's not entirely feature complete, but honors the old config files (mostly) and could use additional testing
<sbeattie> that's all I have on iso testing.
<ara> sbeattie, nice! is it in the bzr branch of ubuntu-qa-tools?
<sbeattie> ara: yes
<marjo> any new topics from anyone?
<marjo> ok, folks
<bdmurray> Yes, there was an issue with lp_karma_suffix in the greasemonkey scripts for a bit there
<bdmurray> However, thanks to kees and hggdh's work it is now fixed and a new package version is available in the ppa
<marjo> bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> Nope, that's all!
<marjo> new topics?
<marjo> Ok, folks! Please continue the focus on Alpha 5 testing!
<marjo> We appreciate the strong participation and look forward to test results and bug reports.
<marjo> if there's nothing else, we're done for today
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:29.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-03
<Hobbsee> et
<dpm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is dpm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ianto> Present o/
<dpm> hi everyone, welcome to the Ubuntu Translations meeting
<dpm> so, we see ianto is here :) who else?
<markjones> Good afternon
<nglnx> Good afternoon :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<dpm> then hi everyone ( markjones, nglnx, czajkowski o/ ), we'll start with the first topic
* dpm changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Promoting and using the Ubuntu Translations project
<dpm> [TOPIC] Promoting and using the Ubuntu Translations project
<MootBot> New Topic:  Promoting and using the Ubuntu Translations project
* dpm changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Translations meeting
<ColinDean> ls -lah
<ColinDean> whoops
<ColinDean> haha
<dpm> The Ubuntu Translations project at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations has been working well so far
 * ColinDean is here for the translations meeting, too
<dpm> for containing and acting upon Ubuntu translation bugs previously (and wrongly) assigned to Launchpad Translations
<dpm> going to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations gives contributors and developers of everything which might need fixing around Ubuntu translations
<dpm> we use tags as well to identify bugs affecting other flavours (e.g Kubuntu https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bugs?field.tag=kubuntu
<dpm> or https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bugs?field.tag=ubuntu-unr
<dpm> for UNR
<dpm> it's also been useful for requests through the Answers system -> http://tinyurl.com/mog77f
<dpm> I think it is now time to announce it "officially" and spread its usage by developers and other community members
<dpm> so what do you guys think, how could we do this? Make people aware of the project and spread its usage for anything related to translations (well, mainly bugs and answers)
<markjones> can i suggest a vote?
<dpm> what kind of vote, markjones?
<markjones> perhaps a vote to see if the members of this meeting agree with your comment about announcing globally the Translations Project?
<nglnx> I agree with the project going "live", although I would like to know more about the specifics...
<dpm> we can do so, yes, but first I'd like to hear if anyone has got any ideas on how to best announce it. There is obviously blogging, and I was thinking of adding it to the documentation at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs. Any other ideas?
<ianto> Letting our LoCo teams know should be as simple as just speaking about it in IRC or on a mailing list
<nglnx> Translator groups should also spread the word through their mailing lists, to make their members more aware
<ColinDean> agreed. LoCo teams, the translation teams, mailing list, identica
<dpm> sounds good, good points about the loco teams
<markjones> and use of social media websites (facebook, twitter, etc)
<dpm> so we've got mailing lists (ubuntu-translators -> leaders to spread it through the local translator lists, loco-contacts?), social media, documentation on the Ubuntu wiki
<dpm> So would you guys be happy with continuing using and extending the ubuntu-translations project?
<dpm> And announce it?
<ianto> Yeah, I've not had much problems with it so far
<nglnx> Yes :)
<ianto> Being a questioner more than an answerer ^
<czajkowski> perhaps a blog post or two on the planet by folks not on the same day so folks get to read it
<dpm> ianto: sure, it should be beneficial for both questioners and answerers :)
<dpm> ok, to recap again: announcing the ubuntu-translations project -> so we've got mailing lists (ubuntu-translators -> leaders to spread it through the local translator lists, loco-contacts?), social media, documentation on the Ubuntu wiki, Planet Ubuntu
<markjones> in the UK we can email the Linux User groups too
<dpm> great
<dpm> ok, so I'll do a preliminary announcement with what we've discussed and we can take it from there
<happyaron> in China using forums and mailing list is acceptable
<dpm> any other suggestions or has anyone had any issues using the ubuntu-translations project?
<dpm> reporting bugs, asking questions, etc?
<ianto> dpm: Is there a protocol of pre-written responses to people who have bugs or questions?
<ianto> Like there are for normal Ubuntu bugs
<ianto> If you've been to bugjam, you probably have read them
<ColinDean> that would be useful
<nglnx> Yes, that would be very useful
<dpm> ianto: for translation bugs, no, there isn't. Maybe it would be a good idea to start a wiki for the Ubuntu Translations project and start creating those canned responses
<dpm> that's a very good point
<nglnx> Those canned responses could even themselves be translated
<ianto> Yes dependant on the language in which the bug/question was posted
<nglnx> Exactly
<dpm> nglnx: that's a good point, although since Launchpad is not localized, it might let people to think they can submit bugs in their own language
<dpm> it might be good for answers, but not for bugs, I think
<nglnx> For answers I think it's manageable, since there are people asking/responding in several languages.
<dpm> yes, that's the point
<nglnx> For bugs, we could include the english + local language canned response
<happyaron> dpm: I have a question that many people asked in our community, when will lp be translatable?
<nglnx> But I can see your point of misleading people into thinking they can submit bugs in their own language
<dpm> nglnx: yeah, I think for now we should leave bugs in English and maybe only translate answers
<dpm> happyaron: I'll give you a link with what danilo from the LP Translations team answered to this question a few days ago, just a sec...
 * ianto is interested in this long too
<nglnx> Ok.
<markjones> [idea] Perhaps a note when submitting to say that the questions should be posted in English if possible?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Perhaps a note when submitting to say that the questions should be posted in English if possible?
<ianto> s/long/linnk
<dpm> anyway, in the meantime (while I look for it) is there anyone from the Hebrew team to discuss the next topic in the agenda (Disabling CLI Hebrew translations)
<dpm> happyaron: here's the link -> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-translators/msg00014.html
<happyaron> dpm: thanks
<ColinDean> as a point of curiousity, why are these cli hebrew translations up for disabling?
<dpm> in short: it's doable, but it's a big task. Now that LP is open source though, anyone could have a go at implementing it (although I agree with Danilo that it only makes sense to translate parts of LP)
<dpm> ColinDean: because RTL (right-to-left) languages are not correctly displayed in the terminal
 * ColinDean nods
<dpm> markjones: regarding your idea, it's a good thought, but questions are actually one of the bits in Launchpad which have the potential for being submitted and answered in one's local language
<dpm> anyway, I'd say we skip the Hebrew topic since the Hebrew team members could not make it today and go to the last topic: Welsh translation team
<dpm> [TOPIC] Welsh Translation Team Administrator
<MootBot> New Topic:  Welsh Translation Team Administrator
<dpm> markjones: can you please go ahead and tell us in a few words what the topic is about?
<markjones> The Welsh Translation team and administrator have been inactive since 2006, and I propose to become the administrator of that team.
<dpm> yes, Mark submitted a request for this, and I was having a look at it yesterday (https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+question/81713)
<dpm> He's got the backing of the Welsh LoCo contact (ianto, was that you?)
<ianto> dpm: Yeah that's me, we have tried contacting Dafydd Harries, the current translation admin but he hasn't responded to Mark's emails
<ianto> He did respond to mine back in May whne I first queried him about the topic
<ianto> But since we've had no response
<dpm> ianto: and what was his answer back then?
<ianto> dpm: It's posted in the question but basically he said he didn't knoww who to transfer the team to
<ianto> dpm: I didn't feel it'd be right to transfer it to me since I was already the PoC of Ubuntu Cymru and to take over two Welsh teams would've been too much
<ianto> So I tried contacted my friend in Ubuntu Cymru, a GNOME-cy translator but he wasn't interested in the job
<dpm> markjones: my only concern is that you don't seem to have much experience with Launchpad Translations (0 karma), nor have you ever done translations upstream
<ianto> The emails are transcripts of the conversations and we've translated the Welsh ones into English for you ^
<dpm> ianto: yes, thanks for the detailed explanations, I hadn't read the answer since this morning
<markjones> dpm: as i am wanting to translate for the Welsh Team, as Welsh is my strongest language
<ianto> dpm: No problem :)
<ianto> dpm: If you don't mid my mentioning, markjones has tranlated an upstream project, OpenTTD into the Welsh language and we translated a new revision together a few days ago
<ianto> s/mid/mind/g
<markjones> I am a fast learner, I had to learn from scratch how to use WebTranslator for OpenTTD, and feel that I can learn and manage a team.
<dpm> ianto: sure, any additional information is useful. I was not worried about the usage of the tool, I just want to make sure that markjones is aware of what it implies to be a translation team coordinator: changing translations, relationship with upstream, etc.
<dpm> and I'm sure he's doing a great job in translating OpenTTD and the Welsh team website
<dpm> (note: we'll use a few extra minutes to finish the discussion, as there seems not to be any other meeting after this)
<dpm> It's not only about translation, there is some additional responsibility associated in becoming a translation team leader
<markjones> dpm: i have previously led groups of people, and i have found that managing people is one of my strenghts
<markjones> *strengths
<dpm> We're not trying to make this more difficult, but translation team members are able to modify all of Ubuntu translations, and we want to make sure they know what they are doing and that they are going to be committed to the project
<markjones> i am a great team player, i am committed to seeing projects through from start to finish, and I am committed to quality.
<dpm> markjones: ianto: I do not want to decide on this directly, since you guys are the ones who know best who's the right person for the job. What about the following suggestion:
<dpm> ianto is the current Welsh loco contact, and as such he's proven his commitment and contributions to the project. I would propose making him the OWNER of the team. As such, he can appoint an ADMINISTRATOR to be the team lead. This person can be markjones, if ianto thinks so (and it seems it will be)
<dpm> What do you guys think?
<czajkowski> Makes sense
<markjones> i'm happy with that suggestion
<ianto> So if for example (and I don't think it will happen) markjones left the team, I could change to someone else who wants to help me with the team?
<ianto> If so I'm happy ^
<dpm> ianto: exactly
<czajkowski> ianto: aye, cuts down on the current issue you have at present
<dpm> great, if everyone is happy with it, we'll do it this way
<dpm> so, a couple of points:
<dpm> 1) This might take a couple of days, since only a few admins can change owners
<dpm> 2) could you guys ( markjones and ianto ) e-mail daf and let him know what we are going to do? Just so he's aware of it
<markjones> understood
<ianto> Yeah OK
<markjones> yes, that's fine
<dpm> awesome, we'll take it from there, then
<dpm> any other questions folks?
<ianto> Nope that's it from me. Diolch yn fawr -- Thanks a lot ^
<dpm> :)
<dpm> thank you all guys for attending and your great feedback and ideas
<dpm> see you in the next meeting in a month (or around in the internets ;)
<dpm> o/
<dpm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:12.
<ianto> o/
<markjones> ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-04
 * lool waves
<ogra> pfft, way to early
<ogra> full 3mins ahead of time
<lool> ogra: Hmm since you're attending everyweek, would you like to represent the mobile team officially?
<ogra> not this week, if you giev me a little intro next time i will
<lool> ogra: Ok; lets say you're doing it next week and I'll update the release status with you next week too
<ogra> i want to be sure i dont miss anything ... so preparation appreciated :)
<ogra> good
 * fader_ waves (on time).
<pitti> hey all
<Riddell> hola
<seb128> hey
<ttx> o/
<marjo> marjo waves
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> yo
<ogra> ghurt
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-04
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-04
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Previous actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous actions
<slangasek> those were:
<slangasek> # seb128 and fader to discuss options for working around nautilus crash on shutdown in hw testing lab
<slangasek> # smoser following up with Amazon on AWS page publishing
<slangasek> # kenvandine to get status of desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one fixed up
<slangasek> # davidbarth to find bug report regarding keyboard brightness notification regression
<slangasek> #
<slangasek> mvo to include base-installer as update-manager submodule for CPU->kernel mapping
<slangasek> seb128: has fader_ had a chance to catch you now that you're back?
<kenvandine> slangasek, done, set to implemented
<mvo> slangasek: I did some work on it this week, but its not ready yet
<pitti> we quickly covered that a few hours ago, and I proposed a solution
<mvo> (sorry)
<fader_> slangasek: seb128 pointed me at pitti and the three of us discussed it.  The bug in question is now fix released, but we discussed how to deal with this in the future
<slangasek> mvo: understood
<seb128> slangasek, yes, we discussed it earlier, or rather fader_ and pitti did
<pitti> fader_: (FAOD, the bug isn't fixed in karmic yet)
<slangasek> (FAOD?)
<pitti> for avoidance of doubt
<pitti> sorry, TLAs
<fader_> pitti: 403539?
<fader_> Ah, it's 'fix committed' sorry
<pitti> fader_: 403549
<davidbarth> slangasek: i don't have the upstream bug reference yet
<fader_> pitti: Right, sorry... typing on my netbook :/
<slangasek> davidbarth: you're sure it's there, though?  Because I get notifications just fine when I change my display brightness..
<pitti> ^ me too, for the records
<slangasek> ttx: is there progress on getting the AWS page published?
<ttx> slangasek: yes, they were
<davidbarth> slangasek: that's /keyboard/
<ttx> let me fetch urls for you
<davidbarth> slangasek: that's /keyboard/ brightness; quite rare unless you have a macbook
<ttx> http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2755
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2755
<ttx> http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2754
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2754
<slangasek> davidbarth: oh, I misunderstood - I thought "keyboard brightness" meant "changing display brightness with a hotkey"
<slangasek> I think I'm less concerned about the other :)
<ttx> slangasek: we can modify them for further milestones wihtout going the=rough Amazon validation
<slangasek> ttx: ok, great!
 * ttx curses his fat fingers
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> marjo, fader_: how goes it?
<fader_> Hardware testing:
<fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader_> As discussed earlier, the nautilus crash we've been seeing repeatedly (bug 403549) is now 'fix
<fader_> committed' so with luck it should go away soon (yay!)
<fader_> I've talked with seb128 and pitti about it and they had some suggestions
<fader_> as to how we could filter issues like this in the future so we do not
<fader_> see the same known failure over and over.
<fader_> The idea is to iterate over the crashes looking for known issues on the
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 403549 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV immediately after start up" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403549
<fader_> client side before checkbox reports them.
<fader_> I have reported bug 424344 as it has been turning up on xubuntu installs.  If this continues to occur, it might be a good candidate for filtering from the daily report.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424344 in xfce4-volumed "xfce4-volumed crashes after install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424344
<fader_> Bug 404264 is fixed and we are seeing automated results for the machines that were previously unable to install.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404264
<fader_> We have a few laptops in Montreal that haven't been tested, so I've asked cr3 to take a look at them, make sure they're plugged in, etc. so that we get them tested.  Two of them are exhibiting strange X behavior that we are looking into: splash screen, trying to blank to gdm, then back to splash screen
<fader_> We will file a bug about this after we have done our initial investigation.
<fader_> I've also done some manual testing of some of the netbooks that are located in the Lexington office, with good results. The hardware support looks good but it actually turned up a couple of bugs in checkbox tests :)  I am working with krafty to get those results to the proper people, as some of this requires working with the hardware vendors.
<fader_> Specs:
<fader_> karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing
<fader_> The software portion of this is in-place -- there are extended audio tests in checkbox, both manual and automatic
<fader_> In order to use the automatic tests in our labs, we need to purchase and hook up some audio patch cables.  I've asked cr3 to check this out and make sure that it works in the lab in Montreal, and if so we can go ahead with the full rollout.
<cr3> fader_: to be fair, they have all been tested but bugs the oustanding laptops have problems for which bugs need to be reported
<fader_> cr3: Good point, thank you -- I pounced on cr3 before he'd even had a chance to get coffee to ask him to run some tests :)
<slangasek> fader_: I didn't recall that xubuntu was also used in our hw testing - that doesn't seem relevant to testing the hardware, since differences between Ubuntu and Xubuntu results are going to come from somewhere besides the kernel?
<fader_> slangasek: We test everything we can throw at it; it's valuable to see that the various CDs boot, etc.
<cr3> slangasek: since we have so much hardware at our disposal, we have more bandwidth to perform a broader range of testing than just hardware
<fader_> We also perform some more distro-related tests and are expanding that through mago
<pitti> hm, does xubuntu use pulse?
<fader_> marjo and I have been discussing how to better present the different results, i.e. hardware-related and distro-related
<slangasek> fader_, cr3: except the result is that the report is showing noise about a Xubuntu-specific software bug
<pitti> but at least the gstreamer bits might be different
<cr3> slangasek: the hardware certification website provides a nice overview of the state of disk images: https://certification.canonical.com/disks
<slangasek> that you're now talking about having to filter out
<slangasek> surely it would be more straightforward to just use Ubuntu for all the tests?
<cr3> slangasek: and we'd save on electricity!
<mdz> cr3, shouldn't that information go in the test tracker?
<fader_> slangasek: Or we could have the best of both worlds by testing them all and reporting for release only on Ubuntu for the purposes of these meetings
<slangasek> fader_: that would be fine with me
<cr3> mdz: the iso tracker? if so, I've tried to work with the maintainer but it turned out to be rather complicated
<fader_> (which would be my preference unless there's a compelling reason that testing the other images is not valuable)
<mdz> fader_, I agree
<marjo> i think it's best to go for more test coverage, then filter results per different reporting needs
<fader_> I will take an action to see what it would take to filter this for only the Ubuntu results... my guess is that's a pretty straightforward and quick change to the report
<mdz> cr3, so the solution was to create a separate report which is private?
<marjo> i'm working within the QA team to determine how best to organize and report test results
<slangasek> [ACTION] fader to filter http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html to avoid showing Xubuntu-specific failures
<MootBot> ACTION received:  fader to filter http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html to avoid showing Xubuntu-specific failures
<cr3> mdz: I needed to see this information and it took no time at all to generate it, I'd rather have something than nothing at all
<slangasek> marjo, fader_: other spec status?
<mdz> cr3, but the rest of Ubuntu needs to see this information as well, which is why we have the test tracker
<slangasek> * karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption
<marjo> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - Marjo
<marjo> Received confirmation from Launchpad team that +filebug redirection will be part of the 3.0 release.
<marjo> Current target date 23 Sept.
<marjo> Thank you to the LP team.
<marjo> That's it. Thx.
<cr3> mdz: there are plans to open up this information in the short term, so this will be available to the public
<slangasek> marjo, cr3: karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing-phase-2?
<slangasek> (that's targeted to alpha-6)
<cr3> mdz: however, I do share your concern about having two sources containing similar information, this will have to be considered
<mdz> cr3, let's talk about it another time
<marjo> slangasek: cr3 will cover that spec status
<cr3> slangasek: yes, the objective will be to introduce quantitative test results in addition to qualitative test results in order to report benchmarks such as phoronix
<slangasek> cr3: is it on track?  the spec says you've not started on the implementation, and it's targeted for two weeks from now
<cr3> slangasek: there have been other priorities, but I'll have something ready for alpha 6
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> finally, we have a late agenda addition per mdz
<slangasek>    * Alpha 5 test results
<slangasek> marjo: how do things look from your side?
<mdz> yes, I asked marjo to prepare a summary of the test results from alpha 5
<fader_> mdz: marjo asked me to look at this but I seem to have been unclear on what you were looking for
<marjo> overall, test results and coverage look good
<fader_> I thought you were interested in the test results as outlined above in the checkbox testing for the alpha images
<mdz> marjo, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ seems to show many test cases which were not executed
<marjo> there were some critical bugs posted that blocked testing, but those are being worked
<marjo> yes, for example server UEC and netboot
<mdz> fader_, I was looking for an overall summary of the testing which had been conducted on alpha 5 and what the results were
<slangasek> server UEC was tested, but rather frantically due to eucalyptus setup problems so the results never got posted
<mdz> e.g. there are 71 test cases on the 7 images displayed on the front page of the test tracker
<mdz> we executed about 51 of those
<mdz> 26 bugs were identified in that testing, of which N were serious
<mdz> and here is the list
<mdz> and so on
<mdz> fader_, does that make more sense?
<marjo> mdz: yes, i agree
<slangasek> given that these stats haven't been collected yet, should we move on for now and discuss that further by email if needed?
<fader_> mdz: Yes, it does, thanks.  davmor2 might be able to shed a bit of light on this.
<mdz> marjo, could you go ahead and prepare the report and deliver it separately?
<davmor2> mdz: 1 of the big issues we had this time is some big bugs found the night before testing started meant that testing got delayed
<marjo> mdz: ok will do
<slangasek> [ACTION] marjo to prepare off-line report of Alpha 5 ISO test results
<MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo to prepare off-line report of Alpha 5 ISO test results
<mdz> in addition to the data, I'd appreciate commentary on how the testing was executed and any changes we should make in order to achieve more complete coverage, better coordination, etc. in the next milestone
<cjwatson> clone davmor2
<pitti> or send him two extra test machines
<marjo> mdz: yes agree
<davmor2> mdz: A day earlier would give you full coverage
<slangasek> or delaying the milestone by a day; our stated alpha handling leaves in some flexibility to do that, but we haven't been seeking full x-by-y test case coverage on alphas
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<cjwatson> this was a bit of a rush, I bear some responsibility for that since there was a late grub-installer change
<slangasek> marjo, fader, cr3: thanks
<pitti> As usual, current desktop state is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> the main focus this week was to get the final bits of DX integration ready
<pitti> also, the GNOME help files stripping and moving to langpacks finally landed, so that we finally have CD space again; we should have everything we need on the CDs now, and they are within the limits
<pitti> on the bug front, we have quite a list, but most of it is unblocked and in the works, so I'm not too concerned
<pitti> about it
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> one particular thing worth pointing out is that it's currently being discussed to roll back to pidgin; nothing
<pitti> decided yet, just meant as an early warning that "it might happen"
<cjwatson> has everything been uploaded for the langpack changes, or is there still more space to acquire by more uploads?
<pitti> (RC bug: cut&paste from gnome-terminal is just broken)
<pitti> cjwatson: no, I expect a lot more air from this, we just saw some 3 to 5 package uploads
<pitti> the langpacks that we ship add the stuff back, of course, but a coarse guesstimate is that once everything is uploaded we should have another 15 to 20 MB
<pitti> next GNOME is next Monday
<pitti> so I didn't do more no-change uploads, just some to test the stuff
<lool> pitti: What are the issues with empathy?  crashes, missing feature, or both?  Mind giving UNR folks (stevenk/me) a heads up if you switch back to pidgin as to allow us to follow ASAP
<lool> ~[1~BTW ubiquity-slideshow and ubuntu-docs packages should match the IM choice
<pitti> lool: absolutely; this also needs to be coordinated with DX for indicator integration, and I can't say that I'd particularly like it
<pitti> we'll start a public discussion about it ASAP
<lool> k
<ogra> lool, i filed a bug for the slideshow
<lool> ogra: but we dont really know which way we want it yet
<lool> anyway, lets wait for public discussion
<ogra> Bug 423640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423640 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu "pidgin promoted in slideshow while not being in the livefs or resulting install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423640
<pitti> it just came up last night/today
<slangasek> pitti: you mention focusing on DX integration; how does that look now?
<slangasek> davidbarth: ^^
<pitti> slangasek: all the components we wanted for karmic are in now; xsplash still looks horrible, and the indicator <-> empathy integration is still missing, but those are on track
<pitti> also, there are still some smaller issues, like the user switcher not showing a list of users (just leading you to a gdm login screen)
<slangasek> ok
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<pitti> FYI, I need to leave soon, I have a dev week talk to give in 15 mins
<slangasek> davidbarth: anything else pitti hasn't mentioned that should be highlighted?
<pitti> seb128 is still here to answer questions
<lool> (davidbarth told me he updated it before the meeting)
<slangasek> lool: right, thanks
 * davidbarth reads up
<davidbarth> slangasek: uploads with minor changes to fix bugs, and n-osd putting notifications back on top
<davidbarth> slangasek: the status report is up at the address mentioned above
 * ogra hugs davidbarth for the n-osd decision
<slangasek> davidbarth: so nothing in particular in jeopardy or bringing major late changes that needs highlighted - ok, thanks
<pitti> davidbarth: "back on top"> that's in karmic already
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> pitti, davidbarth: thanks
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<slangasek> lool: and hello
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> News:
<lool> * dove and moblin image failed A5 but moblin is fixed and dove close to, rest is doing alright
<lool> * cleaned up specs and deferred some work and specs such UNR on armel specs to karmic+1; most are approaching full completion
<lool> slangasek: lool and ogra and davidm   :-)
<ogra> :)
<davidm> :-)
<ogra> lool has bandwith issues, i'll take over if he suddenly stays quiet ;)
<lool> (ack, my dsl behaves a bit erratically)
<ogra> we had massive probs on the armel images due to OO.o being uploaded during the freeze ... can there be something done on the release team side (hardening teh freeze for packages that take more than three days to build for example) ?
<slangasek> OOo wasn't uploaded during the freeze, it was uploaded shortly before the freeze was announced
<lool> We will get some new buildds which will help a bit, but it will still take 1d+ to build oo.o
<ogra> thanks to slangasek for all the help to make the images work anyway without oo.o though
<slangasek> as I said, I'm planning to announce the milestone freezes earlier in response
<slangasek> is there progress on getting that OOo build failure resolved, so it can be re-seeded for armel?
<lool> the build failure is worked around
<ogra> i just did an upload that should build
<slangasek> ok
<ogra> i'll care for the reversions in the seeds too
<slangasek> alright
<lool> slangasek: (I had changed that bit about oo.o workaround during the meeting, so you might want to reload -- ogra just pushed the change minutes ago)
<ogra> yeah, the fix was small ... the diff.gz wasnt (94MB) :P it's OO.o after all
<slangasek> lool: anything to mention on the DX side with UNR?
<lool> No, it's doing pretty good; we might need to rework session handling for UNR a little to allow xsplash to distinguish between a gnome and an UNR session
<lool> For instance we could have a separate .desktop file for UNR sessions and perhaps even an unr-session wrapper around gnome-session
<pitti> lool: ah, for sending the "panel is ready" dbus signal?
<lool> But that's just implementation details
<pitti> lool: like "nautilus || UNR greeter"?
<lool> pitti: Well to allow the Xsession.d script to have a way to tell what kind of session is launched
<lool> ie if gnome then list += nautilus, panel; elif unr list += nautilus, panel, netbook-launcher; fi
<pitti> *nod*
<lool> It's easy to tell apart gnome/kde/xfce but unr looks much like GNOME
<lool> Anyway Cody is doing a first implementation of a Xsession.d mechanism and then we can refine
<lool> LP #418716
<davidbarth> yeah, cody was finishing that up, but not on time for the thursday upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418716 in xsplash "xsplash should support UNR in netbook-launcher mode" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418716
<slangasek> glad to hear things are on track, then
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> lool, ogra: thanks for the update
<rtg> Kernel team release status at:
<rtg> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<rtg> I expect 2.6.31 final next week.
<rtg> The AMI for EC2 will very likely use an Intrepid kernel. We'll continue to pursue a more recent
<rtg> kernel solution, but we're out of time for this release.
<rtg> thats it from me.
<pitti> rtg: will that even work with karmic, given things like apparmor userspace <-> kernel space? (I saw it fail with the jaunty kernel)
<rtg> pitti, its gonna take some futzing, but kees is aware
<slangasek> er, so the EC2 image is going to be built using software not in karmic?
<slangasek> (and what about security support?)
<rtg> slangasek, we'll hopefully have a newwer kernel before Intrepid falls outside the support window
<rtg> if not, then we'll have to continue to apply updates to Intrepid kernel.
<rtg> it _has_ been chosen as a long term supported kernel by SuSE, etc
<cjwatson> apparently EC2 doesn't give us enough in the way of console messages to make it remotely easy to bring up a newer kernel
<rtg> cjwatson, damn near impossible
<slangasek> rtg: ok\
<rtg> support from Amazon has been very limited
<rtg> slangasek, this is all a work in progress, pretty much decided this week at the server sprint.
<lool> I thought it was regular Xen; is it working on Xen and not working on EC2?
<slangasek> rtg: hmm, just a note, the last four bug numbers in the status page are all linked to bug #404264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404264
<rtg> slangasek, cut and paste error. will fix.
<rtg> lool, its Xen 3.02 _ionly_, newer kernels are Xen 3.1
<cjwatson> FYI if you just put Bug:NNNNNN in a wiki page it'll be linkified
<rtg> cjwatson, cool
<cjwatson> you don't have to do [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/NNNNNN|Bug:NNNNNN]]
<lool> I was hinting that perhaps we could setup the same xen locally to get more debug?
<lool> (Sorry for proposing the obvious; i guess you guys thought of that)
<rtg> lool, CentOS 5.0 is supposed to be the debug platform
<rtg> the DOM0 host, rather.
<rtg> slangasek, full stop
<slangasek> rtg: ok; thanks for the updates
<rtg> I updated the release status page
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> o/
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus is up to date
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> We uncovered a few bugs in our Eucalyptus 1.6 packages that we targeted accordingly
<ttx> the main one (that was preventing us from completing the UEC image test on Alpha5) was fixed yesterday
<ttx> bug 423800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423800 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus meta-data service not functional" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423800
<slangasek> ah, great :)
<ttx> As far as alpha6 is concerned...
<ttx> cloud-power-management is landed, but clearly needs more smoketesting
<ttx> we should expect quite a few eucalyptus package updates as we uncover more bugs in there
<ttx> server-karmic-directory-enabled-user-login is pending on OpenLDAP 2.4.18 release
<slangasek> should server-karmic-eucalyptus-in-main be regarded as 'implemented' now?  the remaining MIRs should speak for themselves, I think
<ttx> slangasek: I wanted to cover all the MIR-review bugs before setting it to Implementged
<ttx> I still have one to fix, and a few packages weren't fully reviewed yet
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> note that openldap might be released today, we should be able to extract the featureset from it to precise the FFe we filed on that matter
<slangasek> that would be good :)
<ttx> The other two FFes filed in our area is the local proxy feature in Eucalyptus
<ttx> and the ec2-init upgrade check
 * slangasek nods
<ttx> the last one was approved, but we need to clear some privacy concerns before implementation
<ttx> any questions ?
<slangasek> I'll be looking at any other outstanding FFe requests today, fwiw (yesterday, was somewhat precluded by alpha5
<slangasek> )
<slangasek> no questions here
<slangasek> anyone else?
<slangasek> ttx: congrats to your team on bringing eucalyptus together for A5 - I gather there was a bit of work involved
<ttx> slangasek: thanks -- it's still requires some manual workarounds to get it running as of now... But we're working on fixing that.
<ttx> (and will file bugs and target them appropriately)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cjwatson> *just* updated, in a rush ;-)
<cjwatson> brief summary of specs:
<cjwatson> * multiarch: not landed, I'm assuming deferred at this point (Steve?)
<cjwatson> * cloud-setup-in-installer: mostly landed, bug 424368 for remaining pieces
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424368 in eucalyptus "[FFE] local node discovery, debconf improvements" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424368
<cjwatson> * software-library: mvo wants to talk about this
<cjwatson> * oem-config-improvements: plugin support FFEd and reviewed, will land shortly
<cjwatson> * ubiquity-slideshow: I think this is largely in place now but need to check
<cjwatson> * grub2: all specced work done, plus we should now have an almost entirely quiet boot
<cjwatson> * robust-python-packaging: lsb-release done, pygtk may be risky at this point (previous apturl failure caused by moving to include-links); may be best to leave alone now, deferred
 * mvo has a list of outstanding issues of software-store at http://paste.ubuntu.com/265047/
<slangasek> bug #410352> with the latest clarification, should that still be a targeted bug?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410352 in pm-utils "pm-suspend.log needs to be rotated. " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410352
<cjwatson> I'd like the DX team's opinion on whether software-store should be shipped by default in karmic (i.e. main) despite its present shortcomings
<slangasek> cjwatson: multiarch - yes, spec updated wrt deferral
<cjwatson> slangasek: might as well, I think it's straightforward now
<slangasek> still making forward progress on multiarch, but nowhere near ready for karmic
<mvo> some of the stuff can be fixed before ui freeze, but some can not
<mvo> (in software-store)
<mvo> on the plus side, its there and working (and nice and fast). just not what the spec calls for 1.0
<cjwatson> davidbarth: ^- ?
<robbiew> cjwatson: software-store being driven by mpt
<davidbarth> cjwatson: dx is not in charge of the software store
<robbiew> not really a DX item
<cjwatson> oh, I'm confusing my teams, sorry
<cjwatson> mpt is not here
 * robbiew will follow up...my todo
<slangasek> [ACTION] robbiew to follow up with mpt regarding software-store by default in karmic
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to follow up with mpt regarding software-store by default in karmic
<cjwatson> mvo: is there anything we can do to get better aptdaemon testing/review? that seems easily separatble
<cjwatson> separatable
<cjwatson> bah, separable :-)
<mvo> cjwatson: update-manager uses it if its there, so we could move it to main seperately
<mvo> cjwatson: and get it exposed too all the various packages :)
<cjwatson> I see it has a command-line interface too
<cjwatson> aptdcon
<mvo> I think its good, its just that it did not get a lot of testing yet and its new code + a new approach (all dbus + debconf passthrough etc)
<mvo> it would be trivial to teach g-a-i about it
<cjwatson> meep, aptdcon doesn't respond to ctrl-c ;-)
<cjwatson> first bug ...
<mvo> :)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> is there a good reason to FFe aptdaemon for karmic if software-store's not in by default, though?
<slangasek> as opposed to letting it get all the testing it needs at the beginning of karmic+1
<mvo> not really IMO, most of the strengh (like the new nicer pending view) depends on software-store, a call for testing might be more appropriate
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> ok; we've got an action item for mpt follow-up, and I think the rest can be taken offline
<slangasek> anything else for Foundations?
<cjwatson> I would like to see software-store get in if the design team isn't too unhappy with its present status, given its importance
<slangasek> sure
<mvo> I will try to adress the outstanding issues as fast as possilbe
<ogra> like ... the name ?
 * ogra ducks
<mvo> *cough*
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK: here?
<slangasek> ok, will check in with motu-release later
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:29.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<lool> thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
 * sbalneav taps mic
<sbalneav> Is this thing on?
<Ahmuck-Sr> yes
 * Lns looks around
 * sbalneav tap dances to entertain the crowd.
 * LaserJock throws hard French bread rolls at sbalneav 
 * alkisg likes the dance but would prefer to have the bread rolls
 * Lns has nothing witty to come back with
 * alkisg wonders if we should stop writing like this and start the meeting....
<LaserJock> is there an actual agenda for the meeting?
<Lns> ace isn't here..he's the one that sent the mail
<LaserJock> we can do a quick update if there's no agenda items
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Tell us about the DVD
<alkisg> Since we're here, ... yeah that ^^
<LaserJock> ok, well
<LaserJock> so far this cycle the Edubuntu DVD has been built using the seed (list of packages to include) from the Ubuntu DVD
<LaserJock> so essentially we were building a copy of the Ubuntu DVD
<LaserJock> a couple days ago I finally got some time and an internet connection to upload new seeds (dvd and dvd-live) to the Edubuntu "seed pod"
<LaserJock> it's a bit tricky in the way that the Edubuntu seed pod inherits from Ubuntu's, but I *think* this should be working
<LaserJock> so the daily DVD builds: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/ could use some testing
<alkisg> Is universe enabled? Can we ask for package removal/inclusion, if we think that some more-edu-related packages are prefered?
<LaserJock> Universe is enabled
<LaserJock> and yes, I think we need to start looking at what should go on the DVD
<LaserJock> right now it's 3.6GB
<LaserJock> which I think is a bit large
<LaserJock> currently it's still basically a copy of the Ubuntu DVD, but it's building off of our seed (I believe)
<LaserJock> but making changes is fairly easy now, just update the seed and get either myself or stgraber to commit the bzr branch
<alkisg> Where's the seed?
<LaserJock> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic
<Lns> LaserJock, do you have any URLs that explains the dvd making process for those of us who don't know how it works?
<LaserJock> Lns: not really that are specific
<LaserJock> but we don't have to really care so much about *how* they get built, but what goes on them
<LaserJock> the relevant code that does the building/publishing is called "debian-cd" and "ubuntu-cdimage"
<Lns> k
<LaserJock> cjwatson is the one who primarily handles the build stuff for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and he's the one that got the DVD going, so be sure to thank him next time you see him :-)
<Lns> cjwatson, thanks! ;)
<cjwatson> not that hard *shrug* :-)
<LaserJock> so now the trick is to 1) keep the non-Education parts of the DVD in sync with Ubuntu and 2) make sure we have all the apps we want for Karmic
<alkisg> Is there anything else that we can change in the resulting dvd except for package inclusion/removal? I don't know what, just asking...
<LaserJock> most things are handled via packages
<LaserJock> but I suppose there are some things in the Live part that could be changed if needed
<cjwatson> in general, all the world's a package
<cjwatson> this isn't quite true but the more everyone pretends it's true the better things will be ;-)
<alkisg> :)
<LaserJock> cjwatson: if I make a seed change that makes the DVD build blow up completely, will I get notified of that?
<cjwatson> yes
<LaserJock> so I think things are working, but right now the Ubuntu and Edubuntu DVDs are so close that I can't distinguish
<LaserJock> so I'll try making some changes and see if they get propagated properly
<alkisg> Will the edubuntu theme be applied? Or will we use the standard Ubuntu theme? (/me prefers the standard one :))
<Lns> not to change the subject but I remember hearing about wanting to do a live-usb ? Did that ever make any progress?
<alkisg> Lns, was that ever an official course? I don't think so, all people were talking about was unofficial remixes...
<Lns> alkisg, I think a different theme would be good to have by default
<cjwatson> live USB> use usb-creator?
<Lns> true true
<LaserJock> basically
<cjwatson> we don't have space on the cdimage server for multiple CD/USB builds of basically the same bits, so while you're welcome to do that you'll need to host it somewhere else if you want it published
<Lns> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator
<LaserJock> I think the idea was once we have an .iso , we can provide instructions for doing a USB
<alkisg> But, somewhat on the same idea, if e.g. we wanted to provide a 200Mb ltsp image along with the dvd, to demonstrate ltsp in a live manner, we'd have to create such an ubuntu package?
<LaserJock> alkisg: or perhaps have a script that builds it from the DVD contents
<LaserJock> alkisg: I believe we might have the Edubuntu theme applied
<alkisg> Where would that script go? Somewhere inside the script process?
<alkisg> *the cd build process
<LaserJock> in a package somewhere I suppose :-)
<LaserJock> at this point I don't know
<cjwatson> if you actually wanted that extra 200MB blob on the CD, then such a script could go in the cdimage build process, but it's a fair bit of work to do that
<cjwatson> in particular, anything that involves installing packages in a filesystem image to create a blob needs to run as a specialised job on a buildd
<cjwatson> because the central CD build machine can't in general install packages for arbitrary architectures, and the CD build scripts don't run as root anyway
<alkisg> Got it, thank you.
<cjwatson> s/CD/DVD/ you get the idea
<LaserJock> I think maybe we would need to have a script that ran from the Live CD session
<cjwatson> we have ltsp-client-builder or whatever it's called that can be run from the server installer
<alkisg> Yes, but that's not live; it's for installation only
<cjwatson> of course it takes a while to build the client chroot
<cjwatson> right
<LaserJock> in any case, I think that's not really Karmic material
<alkisg> Sure.
<LaserJock> we can look into doing more along those lines for 10.04
<cjwatson> I also didn't mean to suggest that you should be shipping it all in a giant 200MB package ;-)
 * stgraber waves
<LaserJock> I need to talk off to work now
<alkisg> Thank you LaserJock, thanks cjwatson :)
<LaserJock> but it looks like we're making progress on the DVD front
<LaserJock> and I'm sort of more available now that I have moved and have internet at home
<Lns> Too bad nubae isn't here, he's developing a really neat app that might want to be included in edubuntu
<Lns> has anyone besides me seen it yet?
<Lns> https://launchpad.net/pyclic
<alkisg> Lns, does tcm-ng have chances for Karmic+1 inclusion? :)
<Lns> I tried it out - it's got some work to be done, but it's actually pretty usable right now and seems like it would be a great little app
<Lns> alkisg, I think that would be a safe bet
<Lns> we're working on the VNC part right now, but a lot of other things seem to be working pretty well...we need people to test/bugfix on the newer releases though
<Lns> we're building primarily on hardy... but i don't see that it'd be a big issue, i'd think..?
<alkisg> Nope, I think if you put it to your ppa you could even "copy packages" for jaunty
<alkisg> Do start a ppa to be easier for the testers...
<Lns> oh for sure =) that's one of the next steps after being happy with it ourselves
<ogra> if you want it in karmic you better convince someone of the MOTU release managers to grant a freeze exception
<ogra> (we're past feature freeze)
<Lns> ogra, ok..we'll see where we're at once we're at that point
<Lns> ^^^ (redundant statement)
<ogra> well, the later you ask for inclusion the more unlikely you will get it into karmic
<Lns> lemme chat with the guys and see what can be done.. i know moldy has been learning about the package building process himself
<Lns> http://logicalnetworking.net/other/LnsBotlogs/lns.log.01Sep2009 - apparently there are some source packages in our repo
<Lns> so anyone can feel free to mess around with them, though moldy says 'don't expect anything to run' ;)
<Lns> https://code.launchpad.net/~tcm-ng-dev/tcm-ng/trunk
<ogra> push them on revu and convince someone from MOTU release to let them in, note that you will need some pretty good arguments for such a freeze exception
 * ogra goes into his weekend now ...
<Lns> thx ogra =) have a good one!
<Lns> development has slowed w/tcm due to time constraints, so please - if anyone wants to help out and knows python, feel free to join in! we could use the extra help
<Lns> we're always idling in #lns (moldy and yanqui are the main devs, i'm the one that pretends like he knows stuff but really just is a 'visionary' ;) )
 * Lns sees nobody rang the bell
<Lns> *ding ding*
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-05
<hfz> amigos fellas ;D
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-06
<jussi01> Hello all!
<jussi01> elky:  Pricey nalioth Pici around?
<elky> nope!
<erUSUL> hi
<elky> um... darn, that blew my cover!
<nalioth> how did i get here?
<Pricey> Here
 * elky pokes MootBot
<Pricey> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:03. The chair is Pricey.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Pricey> gimme a second to clean the agenda..
<Pricey> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<elky> can i suggest we do the agenda backwards?
<elky> i believe we have people from the forums council joining, and we best not drag things on for them with the first point, which may end up in a lot of discussion
<elky> s/forums/loco/
<Pricey> sure
<Pricey> [topic] erUSUL - Lack of active ops is hurting #ubuntu-es. The Founder isn't responsible so we ask for a solution (give +f to an active op so more ops can be gathered)
<MootBot> New Topic:  erUSUL - Lack of active ops is hurting #ubuntu-es. The Founder isn't responsible so we ask for a solution (give +f to an active op so more ops can be gathered)
<jussi01> Have we actually got people here from the loco council?
<elky> pleia2, popey probably
<pleia2> I'm not on the council
<m4v> I only know effie_jayx and he's not here
<elky> oh, i thought you were...
<elky> pleia2, who is on the loco council then, do you know?
<pleia2> popey, effie_jayx, JanC, boredandblogging
<jussi01> effie_jayx, boredandblogging, popey JanC and juliux
<elky> do we have any of them here?
<Pricey> Is there anyone else from ubuntu-es here?
<jussi01> m4v: you here?
<m4v> yep
<m4v> erUSUL: ping
<erUSUL> hi
<m4v> roaksoak seems missing
<erUSUL> RoakSoaX ?
<jussi01> So, the background is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
<jussi01> Pricey: you might want to give MootBot that link...
<Pricey> [link] trying..
<MootBot> LINK received:  trying..
<Pricey> bah
<Pricey> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
<elky> m4v, erUSUL, what has the LoCo council said about this?
<m4v> we did not really approach them, as #ubuntu-es isn't a loco channel
<Pricey> Is the leader of ubuntu-es active? ie the one listed as leader on the launchpad page?
<erUSUL> elky: we do no contacted the loco caouncil we thought the issue with the channel has to be discusswed with the irc council
<jussi01> Ok, My proposal on this, after reading the background is that we make a reccomendation here and had it to the loco council to make a decision, with our reccomendation included.
<elky> erUSUL, the reason i ask this is that you appear to be asking the irc council to arbitrate over a much wider problem, some of which is out of our scope.
<m4v> elky: but effie_jayx complained before about the state of #ubuntu-es, is in the ubuntu-irc logs
<erUSUL> elky: the issue only affects the operation of the channel. as m4v mentioned #ubuntu-es is not a LoCo channel. is for help in spanish. it does not act as the channel for the spanish LoCo
<erUSUL> yep effie_jayx LjL and jdps stormed in the channel back in the day to try to fix things... they leave after a while though
<Pricey> Do ubuntu-es have their own channel?
<jpds> Pricey: ubuntu-es.org ?
<elky> Pricey, -es-es
<elky> iirc
<Pricey> Our naming policy says that -es is for hte spanish loco. And if things aren't working out atm, I think we should talk to them to get some leadership sorted in that channel.
<Pricey> I can't say them turning away support from people not in spain.
<Pricey> *see
<jpds> They don't.
<Pricey> -es's main purpose atm is for spanish support, and I don't see a problem with suggesting a Loco organise it.
<niko> as my hat of owner of uBOTu-fr bot, there is really problem in the channel, due to the less of +f on erUSUL
<erUSUL> Pricey: the stautsu of ubuntu-es was discussed with jono and all the people involved in the spain LoCo and usesr of the channel back in the day
<jpds> Pricey: It's because the LoCo and the channel owner had a feud years ago and they act as two completely separate entities now.
<erUSUL> Pricey: a poll was made and the result was that the channel is the spanish support channel for spain and LatinAmerica
<Pricey> sure, but why can't we get the loco to help organise it?
<erUSUL> Pricey: there is no point imho in fragmenting the channels.
<Pricey> #ubuntu-es-es is barren anyway if htat is the real ubuntu-es loco channel?
<jpds> Pricey: They've tried, but PELI... whatever doesn't want it.
<Pricey> jpds: I thought people are suggesting that peli isn't doing a good job?
<jpds> Pricey: -es-es has nothing to do with ubuntu-es.org.
<elky> Pricey, i think you share my concern that moving it from one individual to another individual leaves it open to the risk of the same, correct?
<Pricey> elky: yep
<jpds> Pricey: I believe it was for ubuntu-spain.org.
<Pricey> jpds: so ubuntu-es (the loco) doesn't have a channel?
<jpds> No.
<Pricey> elky: And I hope we have a perfectly good LoCo capable of sorting it.
<erUSUL> Pricey: jpds and the web site has been having (avaibility issues) for a long time
<jpds> Yeah, well... kelp does her best.
<elky> erUSUL, m4v, we're not questioning that something needs to be done. we're just trying to figure out the safest and most future-proof way of doing it.
<jussi01> Who is the spanish loco leader?
<jpds> jussi01: ke|p.
<erUSUL> elky: ok; i just give the info i think is important to know.
<elky> jpds, is ke|p active?
<jpds> Haven't seen her in a while.
<jpds> Pricey: Yeah, Peli doesn't do a good job
<m4v> well, I have been in #kubuntu-es for 2 years, an in #ubuntu-es for 9 months, I don't know anybody from the spanish loco.
<elky> how many irc channels are there in the *buntu-es* namespace?
<erUSUL> elky: the ones i'm op and join are #ubuntu-es -ops -offtopic
<erUSUL> elky: so three of them
<elky> erUSUL, plus the kubuntu one/s?
<m4v> #kubuntu-es, #ubuntu-es #ubuntu-es-offtopic and #ubuntu-es-ops are the main ones, there are other abandoned ones
<erUSUL> elky: the last ones where created during the jdps LjL effie_jayx storming
<elky> see, i'm having this wild idea that it might be worth trialling an -es sub-council/board for irc
<m4v> I don't know if getting the channels organized by the spanish loco it is good, I mean, its members aren't active in those channels, and there are many other spanish locos, like the argeninian, colombia, venezuela
<elky> Pricey, jussi01, nalioth, Pici?
<erUSUL> elky: m4v well the oposition of moving the #ubuntu-es channel to the spain loco back in the day came from users of the channel in latinamerica. they thought i do too that a spanish channel is neccesary for all spanish speakers
<elky> erUSUL, that's not what i'm talking about.
<erUSUL> when someone enters #ubuntu speaking spansih i direct them to #ubuntu-es... i see no point of asking first what of the many spanish speaking countries he comes from
<Pricey> erUSUL: I'm not wanting to move anything really.
<jpds> elky: What m4v says, -es and ubuntu-es.org (was agreed) to cover all Hispanic LoCo, hence why -es-es and ubuntu-spain.org was created.
<Pricey> I'm just wanting to find a group to take charge of things if needs be.
<elky> jpds, you know how the english-speaking channels have an irc team looking after them...
<jpds> Good point.
<elky> jpds, i want to see if it's possible to establish a spanish-speaking version of that team.
<m4v> that may be a good idea
<elky> so it's not just one person who ends up carrying the burden, or being bottleneck.
<jussi01> Ok, so whats the exact proposal here then?
<elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.
<elky> s/#//
<Pricey> [idea] < elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  < elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.
<jussi01> elky: I prefer to think we make a motion that the above happens, but only on the ratification of the Loco council.
<erUSUL> initial members ? an op from all spanish loco channels ? someone else?
<elky> jussi01, lets not bunch several motions up together.
<niko> jussi01: which loco ? only spanish one, or other spanish country too ?
<m4v> niko: the loco council, there's only one I belive
<elky> erUSUL, people who are currently active in the relevant channels, who have a demonstratable history and respect with in the channels
<nalioth> niko: an ubuntu-irc-es council would best be served with a representative from each spanish speaking loco team
<niko> yes, this is a good idea
<elky> nalioth, providing they all have someone of the correct calibre...
<nalioth> elky: of course
<Pricey> The ubuntu-es team on launchpad is a member of hte Ubuntu Loco Teams group?
<jussi01> Fine, Id like a motion first that this decision is ratified by the loco council.
<jpds> Pricey: Yep, that looks like the ubuntu-es.org team.
<Pricey> jpds: just ubuntu-es
<elky> Pricey, add another line to the motion if you can figure how, or just motion again.
<Pricey> Is there no chance of us contacting the ubuntu-es team first?
<erUSUL> Pricey: â#ubuntu-esâ itself is not a member of any other team.
<Pricey> And I assume nobody on the irc council has spoken to peli?
<jussi01> I have not.
<elky> Pricey, i've tried various times over the past few years. he's not once responded.
<erUSUL> Pricey: as the background says he has a tendence to ignore all contact attemps. at least the ones i tried. memo and mail
<m4v> if you find him, pelicano has been offline for 3 weeks now
<Pricey> Can we try one last time, making it clear this communication is coming from the irc council, and address specifically this issue, mentioning all the concerns raised, cc'ing the loco council?
<Pricey> I don't like people going above my head before coming to me is all.
<erUSUL> Pricey: in the last 4 months when the flooding attacks make the situation worse than ever
<jussi01> Pricey: I agree with that.
<jussi01> nalioth: Pici around?
<erUSUL> Pricey: so; i would writte an email to him with what contents? anything you (irc council) agree ? just my own words describing the situation ?
<elky> if i didn't have first-hand experience trying to contact him, i'd agree, but at this point it's only delaying things for the channels for no actual benefit.
<Pricey> erUSUL: The IRC Council would attempt contact.
<erUSUL> ok;
<jussi01> erUSUL: Does he speak english?
<elky> jussi01, afaik, yes.
<Pricey> I believe he has spoken English to me in the past.
<jussi01> Righto
<erUSUL> i siad it multiple times and would like to say it here too. i do no like the idea of bypassing pelicano like that either that's why i asked only for +f for me so i can gather a few active ops and keep the channel running.
<erUSUL> he invested time creating and managing the channel back in the day
<m4v> there's a log with effie_jayx http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/16/%23ubuntu-irc.html pointing out the problems with #ubuntu-es
<elky> erUSUL, that's still only a temporary measure. we want to establish something much more long-standing
<erUSUL> fair enough
<Pricey> [vote] IRC Council to attempt contact with current -es owner before approaching other groups.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  IRC Council to attempt contact with current -es owner before approaching other groups..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Pricey> (council members only please)
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<elky> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from elky. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Pricey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pricey. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nalioth> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nalioth. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi01> Ok, and pici isnt here.
<Pricey> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
<Pricey> Funky stuff, does p3l|c4no have an email address listed anywhere to help things? Else it will just be attempts over irc.
<elky> Pricey, do we now vote on an interim measure (that still involves going over peli's head anyway)?
<erUSUL> Pricey: his launchpad page has a gmail account. that what i've been using
<m4v> /msg chanserv info #ubuntu-es
<erUSUL> Pricey: https://launchpad.net/~gcamposm
<m4v> his email is there
<erUSUL> Pricey: at least one of his work adresses is not valid
<Pricey> [vote] Give +f to an operator as an interim measure until a long term solution can me implemented.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Give +f to an operator as an interim measure until a long term solution can me implemented..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Pricey> Thanks erUSUL.
<erUSUL> Pricey: this one iirc  gcamposm@apesol.org.pe
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pricey> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Pricey. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi01> nalioth: ?
<nalioth> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nalioth. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pricey> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
<Pricey> Funky stuff, how do we want to do this? Volunteers?
<jussi01> Pricey: I think its simple, erUSUL and another ubuntu member, as to not create anothe bottleneck.
<elky> Pricey, i'd say erUSUL or m4v or both.
<m4v> i did not understad that last part Pricey
<erUSUL> elky: m4v is op only in #kubuntu-es.
<Pricey> m4v: as in, who to give the +f to.
<erUSUL> jussi01: maybe me a roaksoax . both are the only active ops that has discussed this issue
<niko> most active is erUSUL as far i can see
<elky> erUSUL, we need to ensure we don't have another bottleneck if you get hit by a truck tomorrow, for example
<m4v> I'm responsible for #kubuntu-es, I don't mind +f in #uubntu-es as long as erUSUL gets it too
<jussi01> I would agree with erUSUL's Ã¶ast statement
<erUSUL> well both are the only active ops perios is a more real description
<jussi01> erUSUL: and roaksoax
<erUSUL> period*
<niko> jussi01: +1
<m4v> jussi01: I agree with that too.
<elky> Pricey, wanna [vote] it?
<Pricey> One second, I'm a little confused here.
<Pricey> All +f is, is the ability to change the access list.
<elky> Pricey, wanna [vote] "erUSUL + roaxsoax"
<Pricey> The IRC Council agreed to grant +f as an interim measure while we await contact from p3l|c4n0
<erUSUL> Pricey: to be able to gather a few active ops that can help the channel. (and use akick)
<Pricey> So this +f is just basically trusting someone to add another couple of ops.
<erUSUL> exactly
<Pricey> It isn't giving them supreme leadership forever, bar none. etc. etc.
<m4v> nope
<jussi01> Pricey: Understand your concerns, no need to add more than needed.
<Pricey> It just asking them to look after things for the next week or so, while we wait for a reply.
<elky> Pricey, yes, but one is still a bottleneck. if we do one, we might as well do two and avoid it being an interim extention of the bottleneck if hit-by-a-truck-syndrome hits.
<Pricey> As long as that's clear.
<Pricey> [vote] +f for m4v and erUSUL in #ubuntu-es for hte interim measure, allowing them to assign more ops as necessary.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  +f for m4v and erUSUL in #ubuntu-es for hte interim measure, allowing them to assign more ops as necessary..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Pricey> I will abstain as I voted against the motion earlier.
<Pricey> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Pricey. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<nalioth> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nalioth. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pricey> jussi01
<jussi01> yeah, im thinking.
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Pricey> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
<Pricey> [action] elky to get m4v and erUSUL +f in -es
<MootBot> ACTION received:  elky to get m4v and erUSUL +f in -es
<Pricey> [action] Council to attempt contact with p3l|c4n0
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Council to attempt contact with p3l|c4n0
<Pricey> Anything else on this issue or shall we move to the other item?
<elky> next item please, it's taken an hour for this.
 * nalioth has nothing further
<jussi01> Lets move on :)
<erUSUL> it's over ? Thanks for your time and help
<m4v> thanks :D
<Pricey> [topic] jussi01 - Modes in/proper usage of the #ubuntu-irc-council channel
<MootBot> New Topic:  jussi01 - Modes in/proper usage of the #ubuntu-irc-council channel
<erUSUL> elky: Pricey nalioth jussi01 much apreciated
 * erUSUL hopes pelicano does not see all this as a personal attack...
<jussi01> Ok, we discussed this last time, and didnt come to a decsion, I have a proposal to make, but want to see if anyone else has thought of a proposal first.
<elky> not i
<jussi01> Anyone else have a proposal?
<nalioth> not i
<elky> if you're looking for other people to propose things, maybe poll the -irc mailing list.
<jussi01> My proposal is that we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.
<elky> ha
<Pricey> really?
<elky> i has a worm in my braaaaaaaain.
<elky> it's stealing my thoughts.
<jussi01> Pricey: the channel is there for users, I think we should at least ask them how they would like to interact with us.
 * erUSUL :) wonders if the worn eats elky's thoughts? why it has not starved yet ?
<erUSUL> XD
 * elky plants her foot on erUSUL butt.
<elky> out! :P
<Pricey> Ok well nobody else has any other proposals.
<Pricey> [action] we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a  useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a  useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.
<Pricey> That's all we have on the agenda. Anything else from the Council?
<jussi01> Nothing from me.
<elky> i motion that i go sleep.
<jussi01> +1 for that
<jussi01> :D
<st33med> elky, motion denied
<Pricey> nalioth?
<elky> st33med, you're volunteering to drive me through sydney traffic early tomorrow morning?
<st33med> Oh errrr.
<st33med> Motion approved with trumpets
<elky> excellent.
<jussi01> ok, can we end meeting now?
<Pricey> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:21.
 * jussi01 has places to be...
<jussi01> Ok, see you all :D
<elky> bye
<nalioth> miller time
<nalioth> everyone take care
 * erUSUL waves
<m4v> cya all
<JanC> erUSUL / elky / pleia2 / jussi01 / e.a. : sorry, I was busy promoting Ubuntu at a computer fair at the time you pinged me  ;)
<erUSUL> JanC: they where pricey and elky the ones who wanted to contaxt somone from the loco council...
<JanC> yeah, you were involved in the discussion around the "ping" too, that's why I mentioned you too
<erUSUL> ok; no worries ;)
<JanC> and to let everybody know I was around in case anything was still needed
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-06
<soren> w/in 4
<soren> doh
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-07
<schatten> hola
 * apw yawns
<apw> ogra, that linux-meta-ti-omap4 work out for you?
<ogra> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is ogra.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> who is here =
<ogra> ?
<dyfet_hospital> im sorta here
 * ogra misses the Grue ...
<ogra> NCommander, persia, davidm, rsalveti ... around ?
 * NCommander waves feebly
<ogra> lets give the missing ones a few mins
<ogra> ah
<ogra> the master of grues
<ogra> well, 5 past the hour ... lets start
<ogra> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<ogra> NCommander, owns it :)
<ogra> * NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
 * ogra guesses another c/o
<persia> No link to any agenda?
<ogra> oops
<ogra> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100907
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100907
<NCommander> co
<ogra> we're getting more and more apport collected bugs though
<persia> I saw some traffic in the LP channels about unbreaking retracers in the last week, so progress may be happening, although it's still c/o
<ogra> so it might be helpful to have it at some point
<NCommander> ogra: I can't fix it until I'm in a place with sufficent bandwidth to easily punt files to the porter box
<ogra> yes, understood
 * NCommander needs to upload roughly 400MiB worth of stuff to debreak it
<ogra> i just dont want to strike it from the agenda
<ogra> (the above was just the explanation why)
<ogra> * NCommander to discuss with linaro and asac on improved-generic-subarch-support
 * ogra guesses thats a c/o too
<persia> Might be profitable to have that on debian-boot@
<NCommander> Its moving alng
<ogra> i think its is discussed on there
<NCommander> *along
<NCommander> slowly
<ogra> persia, but likely not the linaro discussion
<NCommander> Made progress with implementation today. Once we have implementation. I'll whack asac
<ogra> k
<ogra> next one is ...
 * persia doesn't know why not, but doesn't care enough
<ogra> * NCommander to smoke
<ogra> err
<NCommander> I quit!
 * ogra fixes his copy/paste ...
 * NCommander isn't a smoker
<ogra> * NCommander to smoke test ubuntu-server dove alternates
<ogra> sorry *g*
<NCommander> At least, not for the last two months
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> Causing me to have bad habbits. BAH!
<NCommander> I'd love to
<ogra> wasnt intentional, chromium and pasting is spethial
<NCommander> Trying to pull the image came up with a time estimate over a week
<NCommander> Will try again tomorrow
<ogra> cant you have someone else pull it to an easier accessible location for you ?
<NCommander> ogra: that was from the easier accessible location :-/
<ogra> ah, bad
<NCommander> Some days, the pipe is *really* saturated
<ogra> jidgo probably ?
<persia> 10k/s from the easier accessible location :)
<NCommander> ogra: probably will have to try and use that
<NCommander> persia: 10k/m more like it :-/
<ogra> ok
<persia> 10k/s according to the traffic meters :)
<ogra> [TOPIC] Special Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Special Items
<ogra> .... empty ...
<ogra> what is that for ?
<NCommander> persia: well, once counting packet loss, I suppose that might be accurate
<NCommander> ogra: someplace for us to hang stuff
<NCommander> someone added it to the template, and its been C&P'ed since
<persia> ogra, It was renamed from "current items" because "current items" confused folk.
<ogra> well, both confuses me
<ogra> what was current items for ?
<NCommander> "Non-regularly scheluded items"
<NCommander> :-)
<persia> See, most meetings have stuff that gets discussed, solved, and goes away.
<ogra> like action items ?
<persia> This one mostly checks "standing items", without anything getting sorted.
<ogra> no, standing comes afterwards
<persia> No.  Action items is verification of leftovers from the previous meeting.
<ogra> anyway, not sure we actually need that category
<NCommander> ogra: just skip it next time if its blank
<persia> But meetings generally discuss stuff, and that stuff usually changes, and the main focus of the meeting is currently called "special items".
<ogra> [TOPIC] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
 * ogra wonders how they differ
<ogra> oh WOW !
<ogra> i like that trendline
<NCommander> ogra: that's how they differ :-)
<ogra> to bad pitti is on vacation and cant fix it
<NCommander> ogra: see, we're way ahead of the curve for once!
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> we should keep it that way constantly
<NCommander> ogra: yeah, but then we go from suddenly looking good to looking like crap the day of release
<ogra> nah ... we'll just blame the hardware :P
<ogra> thats our big advantage ;)
<NCommander> no, that's my advantage
 * GrueMaster vote +1
<NCommander> you have hardware that consistantly works
<ogra> and ?
<ogra> we can blame it still :)
<ogra> anyway
<ogra> NCommander, three items for you on that chart ... how is it going ?
<ogra> oh, wait, just two
<ogra> three for the spec
<ogra> one is GrueMaster's
<GrueMaster> Now that I have an image I can test and finish that todo.
<ogra> NCommander, i think he is still stuck because you didnt give him a test procedure ?
<ogra> ah
<ogra> great
<NCommander> ogra: he managed to test the upgrade usecase
<ogra> can you do that before friday ?
<NCommander> Fresh install is still broken pending libd-i/base-installer crud
<ogra> so we dont have it on the plate in the release meeting
<GrueMaster> I should have enough coffee to do that.
<ogra> great
<ogra> though see NCommander's remark ...
<ogra> might not work :(
<ogra> NCommander, what about all the bugs it introduced ?
<NCommander> ogra: one bug, that just never got properly squashed
<NCommander> generic omap shouldn't try to use NAND.
<NCommander> Works great on Dove :-)
<ogra> especially the flash-kernel changes that make it run in cases where it shouldnt now
<ogra> generic oamp should try nand if nand is available
<ogra> and if no flash-kernel.conf exists
<ogra> please try to catch these cases
<NCommander> ogra: I'll whack it with the clue bat when I get back state side. Can't properly test it from here.
<NCommander> It's on my radar, just hard to write code
<ogra> k
<ogra> i would like to reassign the EDID spec to rsalveti (and rework the WIs for what he did to kernel/u-boot to make it work)
 * NCommander def. pulled something in his leg :-/
<NCommander> +1
<ogra> i actually wanted to talk to him about it here
<ogra> but he's absent ... so we'll have to do that offline
<NCommander> Take an action item
<ogra> oh, good idea
<NCommander> (please, I need someone else beside myself to have them)
<ogra> [ACTION] ogra to talk to rsalveti about the darn EDID spec, reassigning it and new workitems
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to talk to rsalveti about the darn EDID spec, reassigning it and new workitems
<ogra> persia, that leaves one item for you ...
<ogra> how's that going ?
<ogra> (not even our spec :P )
<ogra> oh, one issue from the EDID spec i forgot ...
<ogra> dyfet_hospital, where are these MIRs ? (i asked about them a month ago, the question is still not answered on the spec)
<ogra> we probably need to close them again
<ogra> if we go with rsalveti's solution
<persia> I didn't touch any spec stuff in the past week.  One of the items is ~3 hours from complete.  Another is about 6 days from complete + ~6 hours of thought.  I hope to get the first done and the second waiting on CPU power this week.
<ogra> "this week" sounds great :)
<persia> The last is probably a couple weeks after that.
<dyfet_hospital> I found one of them at 611852
<ogra> dyfet_hospital, found ? i thought you filed them
<ogra> bug 611852
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 611852 in read-edid (Ubuntu) "[MIR] inclusion read-edid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611852
<dyfet_hospital> I did, I had to look in launchpad for it
<ogra> thats not what the orkitem says
<ogra> *work
<ogra> "File MIRs for the needed i2c tools ..."
<ogra> where are the MIRs for i2c-tools ?
<dyfet_hospital> read-edid was also needed
<ogra> sure, but what did you use to get the data out of the i2c bus ?
<ogra> anyway, please close any MIRs you filed for that spec since we'll reassign it and rework it
<dyfet_hospital> Okay
<ogra> moving on ...
<ogra> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<ogra> NCommander, how about closing or Â´unassigning all these thumb2 bugs :P
<ogra> (i think i asked last week too :) )
<NCommander> ogra: *sigh*, make it an action item
<ogra> k
<ogra> [ACTION] NCommander to clean up thumb2 assignments from http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html which he definitely wont work on this cycle
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to clean up thumb2 assignments from http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html which he definitely wont work on this cycle
<NCommander> Nice way to phrase it :-/
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, that gives you the opportunity to still work on some if you like :)
<ogra> i actually have to talk to jcrigby about the uboot-imx stuff
<ogra> [ACTION] ogra to clearify uboot-imx bugs with jcrigby
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to clearify uboot-imx bugs with jcrigby
<ogra> dyfet_hospital, your bugs on that list are all on track ?
 * ogra wonders if persia still works on bug 159338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 159338 in xine-plugin (Ubuntu) "Re: Heads-up: small xine-lib transition in hardy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159338
<ogra> thats from 2007
<ogra> *g*
<ogra> anyway, moving on ...
<persia> That's about when I stopped finding LP at all useful for tracking bugs :)  There's some issues related to that bug that I keep meaning to examine when I get around to it.
<ogra> [TOPIC] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<GrueMaster> I need to see about getting a similar list that shows unassigned armel bugs.
<ogra> anyone here from the kernel team ?
<ogra> GrueMaster, i think thats a leann tool, you can probably abuse it
<persia> GrueMaster, I'm happy to help you derive that.
<GrueMaster> cool to both.
<ogra> doesnt look like we have any kernel team attendance :(
 * ogra sends big thanks to apw though for working on the meta package issue that currently breaks all armel builds
<ogra> i tested the omap4 binary kernel today and it seems to run great on the 6 layer panda
<GrueMaster> nice
<ogra> hopefully we'll have it on the image soon
<ogra> apparently there are USB issues on the 8 layer ... fixes pending though
<ogra> moving on then, unless anyone else has something for kernel
<ogra> [TOPIC] GrueMaster's hour^W^WQA Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster's hour^W^WQA Status
<GrueMaster> Heh
<GrueMaster> Beta release went well for the most part.
<ogra> apart from unhappy ES2 users :)
<GrueMaster> We have images for all platforms supported by beta.
<ogra> but thats my fault completely :)
<ogra> yay
<GrueMaster> ES2 was too late for beta.
<ogra> right
<GrueMaster> We even have semi working kubuntu images.
<ogra> oh for QA and the kernel ... i heard today that suspend/hibernate are both not expected to work on panda in maverick
<ogra> so no need to test them
<GrueMaster> Ok.
<ogra> (we should probably have a bug open to hide the suspend item in the menu)
<GrueMaster> is there a bug on it yet?
<ogra> i opened one for the kernel
<GrueMaster> Ok.
<GrueMaster> Suspend/resume is less critical than booting atm.
<ogra> bug 628029
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628029 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] panda ES1.0 does not suspend on beta image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628029
<ogra> booting works fine as soon as the meta package is fixed
<ogra> [ACTION] ogra to update the title and generalize bug 628029
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to update the title and generalize bug 628029
<ogra> moving on ...
<ogra> [TOPIC] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<GrueMaster> I think I filed about a dozen bugs during beta last week.  Will add to meeting notes later.
<ogra> GrueMaster, yeah, and we need to verify if they still are valid for ES2
<dyfet_hospital> I did a number of ftbfs last week, but the ones I recall at the moment were not arm specific
<GrueMaster> Most are generic across platforms.
 * ogra sees commons-daemon is finally off the list 
<persia> I can't seem to replicate the ca-certificates install issue for libservlet2.4-java if someone else wants to retry that, or just give it back.
<persia> beta freeze lifted, archive admins processed syncs, hence commons-daemon.
<persia> koffice awaits a sponsor
 * NCommander scuries out of site
<ogra> persia, hmm, i saw the ca-cert issue before
<NCommander> *sight
<ogra> and it turned out to be moot
<ogra> iirc
<persia> dyfet_hospital, catch me when you have a shorter nick: let's look at hdf5 a bit deeper.  I'm still stumped, but I think I can target the bit that will make sense to you.
<ogra> want an action for that ?
<persia> ogra, give it back then: maybe it works this time.
<dyfet_hospital> persia: I will probably be feeling better later today
<ogra> persia, done
<persia> dyfet_hospital, Cool.  22:00 or 23:00 is likely best for me.
<ogra> ok, seems you two dont need an action :)
<persia> Anyone have any ideas for qimageblitz?  I can't figure out how to make it work for i386 if I fix it for the rest.
<ogra> i talked to doko about OO.o ... he said he had an idea and is on it ... please everyone be available with priority in case he needs testing help
<ogra> persia, and who cases for i386 ?
<ogra> just add your fix :P
<ogra> *cares
<persia> ogra, Seems to be popular, or so I've heard.
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> thats so yesterdayish
<ogra> anything else for FTBFS ?
<persia> chromium-codecs is broken again, for those who like that sort of thing.
<ogra> [TOPIC] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> they exist
<ogra> all images fail currently
<ogra> due to omap4 headers being broken in meta somehow
<NCommander> s/exist/don't exist/g
<GrueMaster> they don't exist.
<NCommander> they existed in my morning :-)
<ogra> GrueMaster, did you see the cherry i put on top of the .manifest files ? :)
<ogra> we have them now
<GrueMaster> Yea, noticed a blip in my backscrolll.
<ogra> good, have fun with them
 * NCommander hugs ogra for that
 * GrueMaster does the truffle shuffle for ogra.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: ARGH
<ogra> and thanks to cjwatson we also have proper web indicies for the preinstalled images
 * NCommander reachs for the brain bleach.
<ogra> they could prbably need some more text
<ogra> NCommander, can you talk to davidm about adding the dove images to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickMeerkat/ReleaseManifest ?
<NCommander> ogra: action item me please
<ogra> they are missing there still and i dont know about the commitments
<ogra> [ACTION] NCommander to talk to davidm about adding dove to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickMeerkat/ReleaseManifest
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to talk to davidm about adding dove to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickMeerkat/ReleaseManifest
<ogra> thats all from my side abotu images ...
<NCommander> sh-shea :-)
<ogra> *about
<ogra> anything else ?
<ogra> [TOPIC] Any other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other Business
<ogra> anyone have anything here ?
<ogra> mind you ! i will close the meeting if you dont !
<ogra> i *really* will !
<ogra> for sure i mean, i'm not kidding !
<ogra> going once
<ogra> going twice ...
<ogra> and a third time ...
<ogra> adjourned !
<ogra> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:56.
 * NCommander snores
<ogra> yeah, i wasetd 4 mins
<ogra> *sniff*
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> cjwatson, Keybuk, hi
<mdz> kees sent apologies
<mdz> I believe pitti is away
<cjwatson> hi
<mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> sabdfl is online but I haven't heard from him
<cjwatson> robbiew has once again scheduled our weekly catch-up to clash with the TB, so I'll see what happens when he comes online
<mdz> ah, hi
<sabdfl> hello hello
<oubiwann> mdz: he was on a meeting with us
<mdz> Keybuk is marked away but was around earlier
<Keybuk> I'm here
<mdz> ah hi
<mdz> [topic] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<mdz> mdz to draft plan/process for brainstorm
<mdz> this is done, draft is on technical-board@
<mdz> I got some feedback from sabdfl so far
<Keybuk> I saw
<cjwatson> it looked fine to me
<mdz> the executive summary is: Every 3 months, the Technical Board would review a selection of the most popular items on brainstorm.ubuntu.com, and arrange for project representatives to comment on them.
<cjwatson> I can't say I mind either way about when we do the review
<Keybuk> the important thing seemed to be just that some review happens
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
<cjwatson> as long as it's not a single giant epic meeting (and your most recent mail on the subject suggeted it wouldn't it)
<mdz> yeah, so the most important bit is the fact that the TB is responsible for making it happen
<cjwatson> *suggested it wowuldn't be
<cjwatson> argh.  lag
<mdz> though not (hopefully) for creating all of the content
<cjwatson> delegation :-)
<mdz> I put this back on the agenda for this meeting just to confirm it, so we'll come back to that
<mdz> cjwatson to review and defraft TB wiki pages to match current governance practice
<cjwatson> done an hour or so ago
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> Keybuk to invoke lamont for ia64/sparc drop
<Keybuk> there is an RT ticket filed
<cjwatson> this was in progress - lamont was working with bigjools on it
<mdz> any further action needed from the TB?
<cjwatson> I got an LP patch landed to drop the architectures from cron.germinate, and nuked the installer-* directories
<cjwatson> (which was about all I could do to help)
<Keybuk> 41039
<cjwatson> I don't think sos
<mdz> ok, thanks Keybuk
<mdz> pitti to follow up with kees on-list (re: Chromium security updates)
<mdz> neither pitti nor kees is here today, but does anyone know what happened with this?
<Keybuk> buildds are not getting new uploads, binaries and pending builds deleted, and the SQL to delete the series is slowly progressing
<mdz> there's been nothing further on the list since that meeting
<mdz> so I'm inclined to carry this over
<mdz> [topic] Brainstorm proposal [mdz]
<MootBot> New Topic:  Brainstorm proposal [mdz]
<mdz>  [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
<mdz> so assuming we manage the work appropriately so that it doesn't drop as one big todo list in a short span of time
<mdz> are there any other questions or concerns?
<mdz> there are two open questions in the proposal
<mdz> both to do with how we actually select which ones to comment on
<mdz> but I don't see that as a blocker; we can always apply some judgement on the spot if needed
<cjwatson> this is the sort of thing I'd prefer we figured out the first time we did it
<cjwatson> rather than trying to figure out what the right thing will be in advance
<mdz> agreed
<mdz> the only potential gotcha is if brainstorm doesn't collect the data we need to make a decision
<mdz> which I think is acceptable at this point
<mdz> the worst case scenario is that we do some extra work to filter the data when the time comes
<mdz> if there's nothing else, I'd like to go ahead and vote on this
<mdz> [vote] Brainstorm review proposal in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Brainstorm review proposal in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> cjwatson was experiencing some lag earlier...
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<mdz> #endvote
<mdz> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<mdz> [action] mdz to implement brainstorm reviews as proposed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to implement brainstorm reviews as proposed
<mdz> [topic] Application Review Board [mdz for jono]
<MootBot> New Topic:  Application Review Board [mdz for jono]
<mdz> so jono sent an RFC to the list
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000483.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000483.html
<mdz> and got feedback from me, sabdfl, kees, cjwatson and Keybuk
<mdz> he asked one more question about the term
<mdz> I think if folks here agree that 6 months is an appropriate initial term, then we can close this out
<sabdfl> fine by me
<mdz> (I do)
<cjwatson> I don't see a problem there
<mdz> any thoughts on what we should do when that term expires? should these be elected positions like the DMB, or simply appointed?
<mdz> I guess we can defer that question until later
<sabdfl> even elected positions are still shortlisted by us
<mdz> I'll go back to jono and affirm that we can go ahead with setting itup
<mdz> [action] mdz to respond to jono re: application review board
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to respond to jono re: application review board
<sabdfl> so, i would say stick to direct delegation till we have a use case for broader participation
<cjwatson> I'm not sure we can decide that until we know what sort of size the community is
<mdz> ok
<sabdfl> if the app publication process takes off as we'd like it to, that would be a meaningful improvement on the Apple app approval process :)
<mdz> moving on then
<mdz> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<mdz> I scanned the mailing list and community bugs when putting the agenda together, so I think those are clear
<mdz> anything else? going once...
<mdz> twice...
<Keybuk> sabdfl: to be fair, the bar there is so slow you trip over it on the way in
<sabdfl> :)
<Keybuk> of course, what we also don't want to end up with is the Android app approval process :)
<Keybuk> which is a bit like the Facebook/Skins House Party of processes
<sabdfl> indeed
<mdz> [agreed] chair for the next meeting (alphabetically) is pitti
<MootBot> AGREED received:  chair for the next meeting (alphabetically) is pitti
<halvors> Who meeting is this?
<sabdfl> halvors: TB
<mdz> halvors, technical board
<halvors> Ok.
<mdz> ...and it's over, thanks all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:24.
<sabdfl> thanks mdz, thanks all
<czajkowski> mdz: great link earlier on
<mdz> czajkowski, thanks for the RT
<czajkowski> mdz: no problem it's been RT'd all day lotta folks on my twitter stream have talked about it all day
<JFo> o/
<bjf> put that down!
<JFo> :-(
<cking> he's keen
<mhall119> lol
<jjohansen> \o
<cking> o/
<kamal> o/
<apw>  o/
<Sarvatt> ð
<manjo> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (6 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Release Milestoned Bugs (79 across all packages) ====
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (202 across all packages (up 60)) ====
<JFo>  * 12 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 3 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 13 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:117 (down 1) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> Summit schedule sent. Saturday is the Triage Summit.
<JFo> more vague work ongoing with the Forum
<JFo> hopefully more closed out this week
<JFo> several items will be postponed out of necessity
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<cking> Changes this week to fwts:
<cking> * handle some inquiries from community
<cking> * LP#627959 FADT fix thanks to AceLan + GAS+64 bit addr fixes
<cking> * update fwts to 0.18.2 in maverick universe
<cking> * start natty branch: CMOS, APCI dumps
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've uploaded a new Maverick kernel, 2.6.35-20.29.  Please test.
<ogasawara> Kernel Freeze is Thurs Sept 16th, ie ~1 week away.  After Kernel Freeze, we transition to our SRU policy.  My target scenario however will be that we'll have no changes to the kernel beyond kernel freeze.  Also note that Maverick's RC (Release Candidate) date is Sept 30.  I suspect if any last minutes kernel changes do need to happen, an upload will need to occur approx 1 week before the Release Candidate to allow enough
<ogasawara>  lead time for builds and assembly of candidate images.
<ogasawara> We are again nearing being above the trend line for our overall burn down chart.  We need to start closing out all remaining open work items.  If your name appears in the following list, you have open work items.  Please review if your work item(s) can be marked as DONE or POSTPONED, else get er done.
<ogasawara> JFo, sconklin, cking, apw, diwic, tgardner, jjohansen, smb
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<tgardner> smb is on vacation
<bjf> tgardner: yes
<bjf> a new lucid kernel went into proposed last week ~ 600 commits
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> 448 Maverick Bugs (up 80)
<JFo> 997 Lucid Bugs (up 39)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 225 maverick bugs (up 47)
<JFo>   * 166 lucid bugs (up 4: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 49 lucid bugs (up 6)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 177 lucid bugs (up 10)
<JFo>   * 37 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 18 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 3 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 7 lucid bugs (up 3)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Last weeks bug day was marginally successful due to my e-mail issuhttp://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/?p=6096es.
<JFo> I'd like to have next weeks bug day be on the same bugs, those in the Triaged state.
<JFo> I'll be sending out the Bug Day mail later this week.
<JFo> We will continue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday.
<JFo> Reviewers, please take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving.
<JFo> Please also take ownership of your bugs as you work them so we can get them fixed or otherwise off the list.
<JFo> There are several subsystems owned by all that need to be reviewed for inclusion in our top 50 list.
<JFo> ..
<JFo> sigh, that first line is all messed up
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> Kernel Triage Summit is on Saturday. Blog posts have gone up (http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/?p=6096)
<JFo> The schedule is on the Fridge Calendar and on the Summit page itself (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BugTriage/Summit/Maverick).
<JFo> I'll continue microblogging and getting others to as well so that it can be as successful and well-attended as possible.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<JFo> o/
<bjf> JFo: go
<JFo> Had a meeting today with several QA members and triagers concerning regression bugs.
<JFo> The Kernel accounts for over 60 percent of the total number of these bug tags.
<JFo> We discussed ways to reduce these numbers and I will likely be hosting a talk on this UDS.
<JFo> There was also mention of the regression-potential tag and its use or lack thereof.
<JFo> The general consensus was that it is not useful to anyone. I am interested in your thoughts on this.
<JFo> ogasawara, any preference on if the regression-potential tag goes away?
<bjf> i think we should apply some arsenal directly targeting regression bugs
<ogasawara> I personally don't leverage the regression-potential tagged bugs as they take a back seat to the regression-released bugs
<JFo> additionally there is talk of changing the regression tags as well
<JFo> bjf, I agree
<JFo> ogasawara, neither do I
<tgardner> regression-potential sounds like a bug that hasn't been triaged.
<JFo> it isn't a terribly useful tag to me
<JFo> tgardner, that is the thinking here as well
<ogasawara> JFo: so I'm not opposed to that tag going away
<JFo> I think, and I told them, that this can go away with almost no impact to us
<JFo> ogasawara, cool, thanks :)
<JFo> I figured you would be one of the only people to have an opinion on it :)
<JFo> ok, thanks.
<JFo> ..
<JFo> I have another separate item
<bjf> JFo: go again
<JFo> we should really take a look at the possibility that abogani fails to provide an -rt kernel
<JFo> do we have anything that we could provide?
<JFo> in the way of -preempt or -lowlatency?
<JFo> I remember our talk tgardner about the duplication of effort
<JFo> but the ubuntustudio folks are asking me about it often
<JFo> among others
<tgardner> which is why -preempt went back into the  -rt kernel.
<JFo> ok
<tgardner> the folks that should be sponsoring abogani haven't stepped up to the plate
<JFo> so if he doesn't release an -rt then there won't be anything?
<JFo> I see
<bjf> someone had wanted to talk about i855 KMS blacklisting, is that person around?
<JFo> ..
<bjf> jolan: ^
<tgardner> since -rt is a community supported effort, I'm gonna let it die on the vine if nobody is going to care.
<JFo> tgardner, understood
<JFo> thanks
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
<jolan> bjf: i'm here
<JFo> thanks bjf
<jolan> doh
<bjf> jolan, talk quickly
<bjf> jolan: or head over to #ubuntu-kernel
 * apw suggests #u-k now the meeting closes
<jolan> ill go to u-k
<kamal> thanks bjf
<bjf> jolan: thanks
<McPeter> hi all
<kinouchou> hello McPeter
<McPeter> :)
<SpamapS> o/'
<Daviey> \o
<Daviey> anybody else?
 * mathiaz waves 2x
<ttx> o/
<Daviey> Jazz hands?
<Daviey> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:59. The chair is Daviey.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<hallyn> \o
<jiboumans> o/
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Daviey> jjohansen to provide tests for bug 582963 and request SRU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in Ubuntu Server papercuts "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
 * Daviey suspects that is a typo in the agenda
<jjohansen> yikes is it that time already
<jjohansen> :)
<Daviey> I assume it's really regarding bug #574910
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<zul> heylo
<sommer> o//
<Daviey> I see there has been a recent flurry of updates with that bug
<jjohansen> yes :(
<Daviey> jjohansen, Can you comment further, or are we still blocked?
<jjohansen> and I was in the middle of composing a reply to alex
<Daviey> doh
<jjohansen> Daviey: I submitted my patch, but it doesn't look like its in the .43 proposed kernel
<Daviey> darn
<jjohansen> I am checking to see if it got queued to the next one or accidentally dropped
<smoser> o/
<Daviey> jjohansen, OK, great - do you want to look into that, and we carry on with it later in the meeting?
<jjohansen> Daviey: sure
<shringo> o/
<Daviey> (great)
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<jiboumans> We just started the cycle; complexity wise we should be fine. Division should be about 2/3 bug fixing, stabilizing, testing, etc and 1/3 remaining work items. If anyone feels there are red flags, blockers or too high load, please let me and ttx know asap. Over to you ttx
<ttx> right
<ttx> just wanted to give a status of RC bugs
<Daviey> ttx, Are you moving onto Status for RC bugs?
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Status for RC bugs (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status for RC bugs (ttx)
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus is up to date
<ttx> I know Daviey should fix the first 3 i nthe list quite quickly
<ttx> The third one is more complex, Bug 627963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 627963 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] Inconsistent certificates prevent CC to start correctly (no cc.log)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627963
<ttx> Daviey: any luck on that one ?
<Daviey> ttx, Blocked on upstream last i saw
 * Daviey will poke
<ttx> ok
<hggdh> I would like to add bug 622818 to, at least, the critical/high bug list
<ttx> smoser: news on Bug 623609 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622818 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "unexpected errors after a sequence of tests" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623609 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub-pc needs some help in uec instances" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623609
<ttx> hggdh: will do
<smoser> no news there.
<Daviey> ttx, Following the meeting - i'll send a poke to upstream.
<smoser> i've not made any progress on it today.
<Daviey> .. regarding all the bugs we are waiting on them for
<ttx> ok, keep us posted :)
<Daviey> wilco
<Daviey> [ACTION] Daviey to contact upstream eucalyptus, regarding issues that seem to be blocked.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to contact upstream eucalyptus, regarding issues that seem to be blocked.
<ttx> People assigned to any of the "Other Critical/High Maverick bugs"  should be working on their targets
<ttx> And finally, the lucky ones that don't have any should look for bugs to take in the "Other Maverick bugs (targets of opportunity)" list !
<ttx> that's all for me, unless there are questions
<Daviey> ttx, thanks for the update.
<Daviey> [TOPIC]  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:   Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> from here, life is good, Eucalyptus seems almost stable
<Daviey> splendid
<hggdh> as I commented last week, we (QA) will soon be proposing some changes to regression-* bugs
<hggdh> but, right now, we are still building up the case
<hggdh> (use case)
<hggdh> apart from that, nothing
<Daviey> hggdh, Where will these proposals be documented?  u-devel-discuss ?
<Daviey> Does anyone have anything they need from QA or specifically hggdh ?
<hggdh> Daviey: they will be discussed on next bug-squad meeting, and then on the -dev ML
<SpamapS> aww
<SpamapS> FUN left
<SpamapS> :(
<Daviey> (TBC, i've been speaking with hggdh directly out of band )
<Daviey> hggdh, you rock.... thanks!
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> Hrmm where to begin
<Daviey> jjohansen, Any update on bug 574910?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<jjohansen> ah yes, the patch is committed and queued up for the next proposed kernel
<Daviey> rockin'
<Daviey> jjohansen, I guess there isn't a short ETA for that?
<jjohansen> it will be in the .16 EC2 kernel only not .44 generic/server kernels
<jjohansen> hopefully sooner than later
<Daviey> jjohansen, Thanks for that - hopefully it will land soon :)..  Does the bug mention that?
<ttx> jjohansen: there still seem to be people complaining on that bug
<jjohansen> the last proposed kernels got backed up behind security updates, and there has been a flurry of action recently to try and fix that
<ttx> is it bug confusion, or could it be real ?
<jjohansen> Daviey: it doesn't yet
<Daviey> jjohansen, Can i action that?
<jjohansen> the recent flurry of activity on the bug, doesn't seem to be related to the patch I submitted
<smoser> its unrelated to jjohansen's patch.
<Daviey> [ACTION] jjohansen to follow up on bug 574910 with the current direction
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to follow up on bug 574910 with the current direction
<jjohansen> but appears to be other issues causing load problems
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<Daviey> jjohansen, But to confirm, you and your team have it "in hand"?
<jjohansen> Some of these should be addressed in the most recent proposed kernels
<jjohansen> Daviey: we are working on it, but there seems to be multiple different bugs being hit here all getting referenced under high load average
<Daviey> :(
<Daviey> jjohansen, I just wanted to clarify that if we move on from this subject now, activity will still happen?
<jjohansen> but yes as we can pick out the information we are working on them
<jjohansen> yes
<Daviey> ie, not blocked on anything we can help with.
<Daviey> jjohansen, awesome
<Daviey> jjohansen, OK.. the next item on my kill list for you is: pv-ops kernel status update
<jjohansen> Well the server team could join the kernel team and help with the bug back log
<Daviey> jjohansen, Happy to, if your team wants our backlog :)
<jjohansen> hehe, I think you would get the short end of the stick (I think we are getting back up in the 10,000 bug territory again)
<Daviey> !
<jjohansen> We have had some interaction with Amazon on bug #613083 and hope to see some progress on it soon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613083 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Maverick) "user-data is corrupted inside metadata service" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613083
<Daviey> smoser, Are you working with jjohansen and co, tostay updated with what is happening?
<smoser> yes. i'm composing a amazon targetted mail right now
<jjohansen> Bug #606373 is a race, that is either in upstart or the tty layer that I didn't manage to track down by the end of last week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Maverick) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<Daviey> rocki'.. so there is some progress - but not a fix yet?
<jjohansen> Daviey: yep smoser is rocking
<Daviey> Okay.. i guess that we can leave it suitable hands
<jjohansen> Daviey: not fixed but we should see progress this week
<Daviey> [ACTION] jjohansen and smoser to report on bug 613083 bug 606373 and next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen and smoser to report on bug 613083 bug 606373 and next meeting
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613083 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Maverick) "user-data is corrupted inside metadata service" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Maverick) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<Daviey> jjohansen, Ok.. that is everything on my kill list for you.. did you have anything else to raise?
<jjohansen> hrmm, I thought I did but I am not finding it in my notes, so it is probably an AA bug instead of something your interested in
<Daviey> jjohansen, Ahh.. ok - if you remember what it is - can you let one of us know? :)
<jjohansen> yep
<Daviey> anybody have anything to bring to jjohansen ?
<zul> nope
<Daviey> jjohansen, Ok.. thanks for your effort
<Daviey> \o/
<zul> my bug has been fixed
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<Daviey> I guess he isn't here.. oh well :(
<mathiaz> Daviey: he waved
<mathiaz> Daviey: let's wait a little bit...
<sommer> ooh ooh, I'm here
<sommer> heh, not much new to report though
<Daviey> sommer, o/
<mathiaz> sommer: is there a section about puppet in the server guide?
<sommer> I think most of the bugs are fixed for maverick, and I might have a puppet section done before thursday
<sommer> mathiaz: in the works
<Daviey> sommer, you really are on fire.
<mathiaz> sommer: ok
<mathiaz> sommer: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/u/mathiaz-ubuntu-10.10.html
<Daviey> sommer, Is there anything you need from us?
<mathiaz> sommer: ^^ shows that I'm supposed to review a section about puppet
<sommer> mathiaz: ya, I'll probably get something in tomorrow ish
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - I may have time to review it
<sommer> Daviey: I think I'm good at the moment
<Daviey> mathiaz / sommer: Okay, can you gues sync up tomorrow?
<mathiaz> sommer:when is documentation freeze?
<sommer> mathiaz: thursday
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> This isn't in archive docs, tho is it?
<mathiaz> Daviey: for maverick IIRC there is still an ubuntu-server guide package
<Daviey> I thought this was actioned to be dropped for maverick?
<sommer> mathiaz: it shouldn't get built for maverick... the instructions were dropped from the makefile
<Daviey> ok..
<sommer> so it should be only available in HTML and PDF
<Daviey> [ACTION] sommer and mathiaz to sync up regarding puppet server guide
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer and mathiaz to sync up regarding puppet server guide
<Daviey> Any other comments regarding the awesome server guide?
<hallyn> it's awesome
<Daviey> \o/
<Daviey> thanks sommer, you rock.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<jiboumans> sommer++
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<sommer> thank you guys :-)
<Daviey> I guess kim0 isn't here :(
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<Daviey> Anything?
<zul> almost breaking the record for shortest meeitng
<RoAkSoAx> couple of cluster stack related package are already in main, we still waiting for cluster-glue, cluster-agents, pacemaker
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, What is the delay?
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, ?
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: Well it's complicated. In simple words, upstream keeps the packaging as it is, and they dont wanna do library split, which was required by ubuntu developers
<Daviey> :(
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Is this still targeted at Maverick?
<RoAkSoAx> but we are hoping that they do a final review and accept packages as they are since upstream is gonna keep them as they are (upstream + deabian)
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: yes, it is still targeted for maverick otherwise we might end up having a non-working cluster stack, *or* RHCS without pacemaker support
<Daviey> :(
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Are the relevant exceptions raised?
<RoAkSoAx> we will just wait for a final review before actually going forward on removing pacemaker support to RHCS
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Is there anything you need from the team?
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: support for getting the cluster related packages in main :)
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, In what sense, a MIR report?
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: MIR's are filed, just hold on a sec
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Okay.. Don't rushg to find it this moment.. Can i ask that you send an update to ubuntu-server mailing list?
<RoAkSoAx> bug #527155, bug #527195, and bug #527142 (which exaplins the situation)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527155 in cluster-agents (Ubuntu) "[MIR] cluster-agents" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527155
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527195 in pacemaker (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pacemaker" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527142 in cluster-glue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] cluster-glue" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527142
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Is it okay for you to send a further update to the mailing list?
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: the situation is better explained in cluster-glue MIR, by ivoks
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: sure!
<Daviey> Current progress, what is blocking and if you or ivoks need help!
<Daviey> Rockin'
<Daviey> [ACTION] RoAkSoAx to email ubuntu server mailing list with update of cluster stack progress for maverick.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  RoAkSoAx to email ubuntu server mailing list with update of cluster stack progress for maverick.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> Regrettably, Tuesday 2010-09-14 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<Daviey> thanks folks!
<Daviey> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:40.
<Status0> Good eve. :-) and happy new years (Jewish Holliday)
<ivarela> hi pascalc
<highvoltage> ogra, ogra_cmpc: Just a reminder that emea-rmb-board meeting is in 10 minutes
<ogra_cmpc> Status0, isnt that tomorrow ? (not trhat i'm a jew, but someone said its the 8th)
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, indeed
<ogra_cmpc> i havent forgotten ;)
<halvors> Its today...
<halvors> Or am i wrong?
<pleia2> starts the evening of the 8th
<Status0> ogra_cmpc, yes, but we say like "marry crismes" / "happy new years" also before. :-)
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<halvors> Did you mean the Europe board?
<halvors> The next meeting is scheduled for September 7th 2010, 20:00 UTC and will be held in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net.
<halvors> Is this wrong?
<ogra_cmpc> halvors, no, thats right
<halvors> I am confused...
<ogra_cmpc> i was referring to somethig from the backlog :)
<halvors> Also in 10 minutes.
<halvors> Oh.
<halvors> Sorry.
<halvors> I didn't understand that :(
<ogra_cmpc> no worries
<halvors> :D
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: yeah I just explicitely told you because I already reminded the rest of the council in another channel :)
<ogra_cmpc> ah, k
<phillw> Hi
<ogra_cmpc> phew looks like it will be a long meeting today
<vincentxavier> hi
<drubin> ogra_cmpc: Should go quick though.
 * czajkowski is still in the middle of her dinner 
<czajkowski> highvoltage: you're chair :D
<highvoltage> czajkowski: I know, you've only reminded me of that about every day for the last month ;)
<ogra_cmpc> lol
<czajkowski> highvoltage: my turn to prod you :D
 * drubin will drive the LP membership waggon
<highvoltage> well, the time has come
<highvoltage> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:59. The chair is highvoltage.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<highvoltage> Good evening everyone, I'll be the chair for the meeting, but please don't sit on me
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<bognarandras> hi
<maiatoday> hi
<Dyth> :D
<halvors1> Hi!
<fabrizioballiano> hi highvoltage and everybody!
<inetpro> good evening
<kinouchou> hi
<costales> Hi! ;)
<vincentxavier> hi
<highvoltage> the regional board council is seveaz, popey, czajkowski, highvoltage, ogra, stgraber, drubin
<highvoltage> do we have quorum?
<czajkowski> o/
<highvoltage> o/
<ogra_cmpc> \o
<drubin> window up
<drubin> window up
<drubin> oops sorry ;/
<highvoltage> we need one more, right?
<drubin> window up
<czajkowski> yup
<Kilos> hi
 * stgraber waves
<ogra_cmpc> drubin, it's getting cold if you open all of them !
<highvoltage> stgraber to the rescue
 * YoBoY waves
<highvoltage> Note:
<highvoltage> Only EMEA Council members will vote on membership candidates,
<highvoltage> however, when the time comes to review a candidate's application, you may show your support for the candidate by telling us about your experiences of working with the person
<highvoltage> Candidates will be called one by one, in order that they appear on our agenda page for this meeting
<highvoltage> which can be found on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<highvoltage> is xteejx here?
<highvoltage> doesn't seem so.
<highvoltage> is ttmtt here?
<highvoltage> phillw: it seems like you're up next!
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] philw
<MootBot> New Topic:  philw
 * phillw I'm here
<highvoltage> phillw: please tell us a bit about yourself
<phillw> I started using ubuntu with 9.04, after using unix some years previous. I'm a strong advocate of ubuntu and I hope my wiki page shows just how strongly I feel about ubuntu
<drubin> All other candidates it might help speed things up if you could please write down in a text editor 2/3 lines about your self so you can copy paste when time comes. :)
<ChrisWoollard> ok
<phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
<fabrizioballiano> fine
<drubin> phillw: In what way are you an advocate?
<vincentxavier> drubin: already thinking about it
<drubin> ie some of the highlights.
<phillw> I am active in doing installs for other people & then offering support to them
<highvoltage> phillw: what do you do as part of the lubuntu team?
<phillw> I keep the wiki area updated and also host the test iso's on my server.
<phillw> not added yet, but in my testimonial is that I now also host a forum for the ubuntu-youth-team
<highvoltage> any further questions before we vote?
<ogra_cmpc> do you do any programming ?
<ogra_cmpc> (regarding your plans for lubuntu a11y)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: you don't regard assembly as programming!? ;)
<ogra_cmpc> looks like a quite big task to add accessibility there
<drubin> pretty decent forum post count http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=824544
<phillw> no, a programmer I am not, but I have been taught how to compile and test releases of pcmanfm
 * drubin is ok to vote.
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, well, i was rather meaning UI stuff integration work etc :)
<ogra_cmpc> so what are your plans regarding a11y in lubuntu, how do you plan to bring it forward ?
<hobgoblin> can i " show your support for the candidate by telling us about your experiences of working with the person"
<highvoltage> hobgoblin: by all means!
<hobgoblin> I see phillw doing good work on the forum almost daily in my role as a moderator there - I also have a lot to do with him in irc channel support in the Beginner Team support channel. Very patient and thorough with people.  I have a lot of respect for the work he does.
<hobgoblin> then ^^
<hobgoblin> thank you :)
<czajkowski> phillw: have you gotten or do you plan to get involved with the Ubuntu accessibility team ?
<drubin> btw I have also seen phillw's work in #ubuntu-beginners channel.
 * ogra_cmpc is ready to vote, the above was just an out of interest question because it sonds like a great project 
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: ok
<highvoltage> [VOTE] Membership status for phillw
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Membership status for phillw.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<phillw> czajkowski: I'm on the mailing list and also registered to the forum area. I also liase with an accessibility site to update them on the work ubuntu is doing
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> phillw: have you talked to Pendulum
<highvoltage> +1 for his overall contributions on lubuntu and the forums
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Status0> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Status0. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<highvoltage> #endvote
<ogra_cmpc> welcome phillw !
<hobgoblin> congrats phillw :)
<czajkowski> phillw: congrats
<drubin> congrats phillw and welcome
<kinouchou> congrats phillw
<phillw> thanks :-D
<maiatoday> congrats phillw
<highvoltage> Status0: please note that only EMEA RMB Council members may vote
<highvoltage> phillw: congratiolations and welcome!
<Status0> highvoltage, sorry.
<halvors1> phillw: congrats :)
<highvoltage> bognarandras: are you here?
<bognarandras> i'm here
<bognarandras> hi
<highvoltage> great
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] bognarandras
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<MootBot> New Topic:  bognarandras
<bognarandras> first sorry for my bad english, i'm from Hungary
<highvoltage> bognarandras: please tell us about yourself!
<bognarandras> okay
<bognarandras> I am a Hungarian Ubuntu LoCo activist and LoCo Team Member. I was born in 1987. I live in PÃ©cs, Hungary. I graduated from high school as a viticulturist. I got in touch with Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) first and although there were smaller breaks during the first years now I use Ubuntu solely, but I test regularly other GNU/Linux distributions too. I deal with vector graphics in my spare time and I expand my knowledge continuously conc
<highvoltage> if anyone else wants to say something about why he should or shouldn't be a member, feel free to speak now too
<ogra_cmpc> heh, hoary ... that were the times :)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: that was the cycle when edubuntu was born and when we met!
<ogra_cmpc> bognarandras, did you consider joining the art team ? your work looks great
<czajkowski> bognarandras: hey you did the funky graphics http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/hu/node/381
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, yeah !
<highvoltage> I'm already willing to give bognarandras a +1 just for his artwork contributions, they're great!
<bognarandras> ogra_cmpc: i dont think about that, but yes... why not? :)
<czajkowski> it's fantastic stuff
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<drubin> bognarandras: are you involved with planning this Maverick release party?
<bognarandras> czajkowski: yes, thats my work
<highvoltage> bognarandras: and I'll take you up on your offer on the wiki page for helping other projects, we need some nice artwork on the edubuntu website!
<bognarandras> drubin: yes
<bognarandras> highvoltage: yes, I know about the edubuntu artwork
<czajkowski> bognarandras: so what  would you like to do in the coming cycle ?
<bognarandras> and it's need some development
<bognarandras> czajkowski: i want to create new stuffs, like banners, badges, logo's for different projects
<czajkowski> great
<czajkowski> well I'm ready to vote
 * ogra_cmpc too
 * stgraber too
<highvoltage> [VOTE] Membership for bognarandras
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Membership for bognarandras.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> love your artwork :)
<highvoltage> +1 for great artwork contributions (and hopefully more to come!)
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bognarandras> thanks :)
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<highvoltage> #endvote
<drubin> [endvote]
<highvoltage> bognarandras: congratiolations and welcome!
<ogra_cmpc> welcome bognarandras
<kinouchou> congrats bognarandras
<bognarandras> thank you very much
<halvors> congrats :D
<drubin> congradulations!
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] maiatoday
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<MootBot> New Topic:  maiatoday
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/maiatoday
<superfly> yay! maiatoday!!
<highvoltage> :)
 * inetpro votes for maiatoday
 * superfly cheers for maiatoday
 * Kilos cheers for maiatoday 
<drubin> Not really sure if this is ok for me to cheer as well.
<ogra_cmpc> geez a testemonial from highvoltage !
<highvoltage> maiatoday: want to introduce yourself?
<maiatoday> ok
<maiatoday> I started using ubuntu after facing heavy software costs while I was studying or piracy. I opted for open source so I could spend the money on hardware.
<drubin> but since she is from my loco I think it is wrong to no cheer.
<maiatoday> At home congratsI have managed to switch over completely to ubuntu. I do sysadmin on ubuntu machines for close family.
<maiatoday> Since the beginning of this year I am on a mission to be more active in the local ubuntu community in my area.
<inetpro> and active she is for sure
<Kilos> tirelessly
 * ogra_cmpc wants a piece of that cake !
<ogra_cmpc> but i guess its eaten already :(
 * highvoltage had some of that cake :p
<maiatoday> yes it only lasted a few minutes
<czajkowski> that cake does look great
<maiatoday> so I guess one of my missions would be to organise another cake
<highvoltage> the cake was not a lie
<halvors> Yes :)
<czajkowski> maiatoday: are you involved in Ubuntu women, seeing as you've gone about getting many of the women in your family using Ubuntu? how did that go ?
<inetpro> maiatoday was instrumental in our re-approval of #ubuntu-za
<maiatoday> I have attended some meetings but I feel as if being visible in my area is working for the greater ubuntu-women goal too
<drubin> maiatoday: It wasn't a mission it was awesome
<czajkowski> maiatoday: that's good too
<ogra_cmpc> should we vote ?
<highvoltage> [VOTE] Membership for maiatoday
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Membership for maiatoday.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> +1 [ great loco participation ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<JPM> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from JPM. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<drubin> JPM: You can't vote
<JPM> o
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<drubin> JPM: but we take that as support for maiatoday :)
<JPM> hehe ok
<Omega> Should I vote against so it cancells out?
<halvors> So can i vote too :P
<JPM> well ok
<highvoltage> czajkowski: your vote?
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<inetpro> maiatoday: o/
<highvoltage> #endvote
<drubin> congrats maiatoday
<kinouchou> welcome maiatoday
<maiatoday> thanks for the support everybody
<ogra_cmpc> welcome maiatoday
<halvors> congrats :D
<highvoltage> maiatoday: congratiolations and welcome!
<inetpro> very nice job maiatoday
<tumbleweed> maiatoday: congrats, glad your arm was twisted :)
<fredre2> congrats
<ivarela> congrats maia, good job
<highvoltage> is Frabeizio around? Sorry, I'm not sure what your nick is
<fabrizioballiano> hello everybody, I'm here :)
<fabrizioballiano> Fabrizio :)
<fabrizioballiano> italian names are always strange
<highvoltage> [topic] fabrizioballiano
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<MootBot> New Topic:  fabrizioballiano
<highvoltage> fabrizioballiano: oops, sorry!
<fabrizioballiano> never mind!
<halvors> fabrizioballiano: I love italy :D
<fabrizioballiano> haha great to know, it surely is a beautiful place but has maaany problems :)
<czajkowski> fabrizioballiano: you links to your English website and italian website are pretty empty, they're coming soon ?
<fabrizioballiano> actually I'm working on them
<fabrizioballiano> but the most populous website
<fabrizioballiano> is the .net
<fabrizioballiano> http://fabrizioballiano.net
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fabrizioballiano.net
<halvors> :D Spend most of my holidays there :)
<fabrizioballiano> cause on the net I talk about all my FLOSS projects
<drubin> halvors: please keep stuff on topic
<fabrizioballiano> while I'm creating the it/com for work things...
<halvors> drubin: Ok, sorry :)
<fabrizioballiano> (that's why they're late :))
<highvoltage> fabrizioballiano: your interests are good, but could you perhaps tell us a bit more about your contributions directly to ubuntu?
<ogra_cmpc> fabrizioballiano, did you consider working on the mini remix inside ubuntu to amek it an official image ?
<fabrizioballiano> I started working with Ubuntu since 6.0.4
<halvors> 6.04 :)
<fabrizioballiano> since 4 years working as lead developer of UCK (Ubuntu Customization Kit)
<fabrizioballiano> yes sorry, emotion!
<halvors> Ok :)
<fabrizioballiano> and lead developer for Ubuntu Mini Remix and Ubuntu Italian Remix
<highvoltage> fabrizioballiano: how many developers are working on the Ubuntu Italian Remix?
<fabrizioballiano> truth or lie?
<fabrizioballiano> :)
<fabrizioballiano> one, me
<fabrizioballiano> that's the same for Ubuntu Mini Remix
<fabrizioballiano> while on UCK the team is made by 4-5 people
<highvoltage> I'm ready to vote, any further questions?
<fabrizioballiano> 2 active (me and a guy called wolf)
<fabrizioballiano> ops ok stopping writing :)
<ogra_cmpc> fabrizioballiano, so to my above qestion, did you consider to make the mini remix an image that gets built in the ubuntu infrastructure ?
<ogra_cmpc> and to live on cdimage.ubuntu.com ?
<fabrizioballiano> I know I'm not developing "inside" Ubuntu caus all my projects are external but I'm working to spread the ubuntu usage
<ogra_cmpc> i imagine many people wuld happily make use of such an image
<fabrizioballiano> sure, I told to directly to Mark some time ago about that
<ogra_cmpc> well, i mean getting involved with ubuntu development and maintining it as an official derivative
<fabrizioballiano> but I couldn't directly reach the guys that managed the Ubuntu ISO generation systems
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: I believe that answers your question
<fabrizioballiano> so I kept it external
<fabrizioballiano> I proposed mark to build
<fabrizioballiano> an ISO for every language
<ogra_cmpc> fabrizioballiano, they are all in #ubuntu-devel
<ogra_cmpc> and more specifically in the ubuntu-cdimage team
<czajkowski> fairly friendly bunch of folks to just drop by in IRC
<fabrizioballiano> I tried, i'm talking about long time ago so I can't rememeber every detail...
<czajkowski> I'm ready to vote anyways
<highvoltage> yes, voting time
<highvoltage> [VOTE] Membership for fabrizioballiano
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Membership for fabrizioballiano.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<fabrizioballiano> talking about localized isos, i really believe they's important for spreading the OS
<fabrizioballiano> thinking about how many people download the official iso and gets only partially translated softwares...
<highvoltage> +0 [ some good contributions, but not significant for membership ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<ogra_cmpc> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_cmpc. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<fabrizioballiano> in facts the italian remix was downloaded 600 times sine 10.04.1 release
<fabrizioballiano> in a few days
<fabrizioballiano> :(
<drubin> +0 [I like the contributions but not enough for membership]
<MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<drubin> fabrizioballiano: I would like to see you trying to get your ISO into official ubuntu stack.
<highvoltage> stgraber is voting we're just waiting for his wifi to become unfrozen
<stgraber> +0 Would appreciate more collaboration with the Ubuntu project itself and its teams.
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -1
<highvoltage> #endvote
<fabrizioballiano> I would send you the mails I sent
<fabrizioballiano> ...
<highvoltage> fabrizioballiano: I'd like to see you become an ubuntu member, and I think we all do
<fabrizioballiano> mark said he liked the project, like jeos
<fabrizioballiano> anyway...
<fabrizioballiano> not that easy as it seem...
<highvoltage> fabrizioballiano: perhaps get some of the people that use the italian distro to write something up about it, your wiki page had no testimonials from people you have worked wit
<fabrizioballiano> i know
<halvors> I know, i have tryed to become an Ubuntu Member for 3 meetings :(
<halvors> Its hard...
<ogra_cmpc> fabrizioballiano, i like the project too but i agree with drubin's comment above, getting you mini image into ubuntu officially would be a great start
<fabrizioballiano> but a lot of users use that
<highvoltage> fabrizioballiano: and we can only accept a testimonial from Mark Shuttleworth if he either left it on your wiki page, e-mailed it to us or say it on this channel during the meeting
<fabrizioballiano> got an email for sure
<ogra_cmpc> fabrizioballiano, highvoltage means a testimonial to the board
<highvoltage> halvors: it's really easy if you do what it says on the application page, we make it quite clear that we need good evidence of your contributions, and in particular, testimonials
<fabrizioballiano> ok fine
<fabrizioballiano> i know
<halvors> highvoltage: Ok, i hope for membership this time :)
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] costales
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
<MootBot> New Topic:  costales
<costales> Hi! ;)
<ogra_cmpc> wow, thats a lot of good testimonials
<costales> :)
<czajkowski> costales: wow
<czajkowski> nice wiki page
<drubin> costales: I really like your "1help=1coffee" idea
<costales> yes, they're great members :)
<ogra_cmpc> even from dpm
<ivarela> and 1help=1coffe works! I can confirm it.. ;)
<costales> drubin: more caffeine xD
<highvoltage> yes a recommendation from dpm is quite big1
<ogra_cmpc> costales, so when does gufw get a forwarding checkbox that enables my mom to switch on forwarding for my dad's PC through her laptop ? :)
<costales> ogra_cmpc, xD it's idea
<costales> it's an idea
<highvoltage> costales: I notice that you're quite involved with bugs, but you haven't ever uploaded a bug fix. do you plan on becomming involved with motu or another development route perhaps?
<costales> did you a bug? :)
 * ogra_cmpc is waiting for such a feature since ufw exists :)
<ogra_cmpc> costales, not yet, will do ;)
<costales> highvoltage, I tried some times create a debs
<costales> but it's hard for me
<costales> Devid is helping a lot with Gufw
<costales> in that point :)
<costales> but, yes, i'm very interesting!
<halvors> Yes, does launchpad have an deb building system? Or did developers build them manually?
<costales> halvors, no, Devid (a MOTU) do it ;)
<highvoltage> ok, yeah the initial learning curve is sometimes a bit high. starting with bug fixes to packages as apposed to packaging from scratch is usually a good start!
<costales> I do the release, and he do the .deb and upload to the repository
<highvoltage> any further questions?
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, it took some people years to become motu :) ... no hurry on that ;)
<drubin> I am fine to vote
 * ogra_cmpc too
 * stgraber too
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: it took ME a few years even! I'm not saying he should ebcome one now, but it would probably be a good idea for him to learn how to do patches :)
<drubin> highvoltage: I have also tried this deb thing before so TMI ;) hard to get your head around it at first
<highvoltage> [VOTE] costales
<MootBot> Please vote on:  costales.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, yes, thats what i was (secretly) referring to ;)
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<highvoltage> +1 good bug tracking work, support and documentation
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<drubin> soorry
<highvoltage> #endvote
<costales> I only can say one thing: THANKS VERY MUCH!!!
<costales> :D
<highvoltage> costales: congratulations and welcome!
<costales> :D
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, [ednvote] works better
<ogra_cmpc> err
<halvors> congrats :)
<ogra_cmpc> modulo typo
<highvoltage> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<ogra_cmpc> costales, congrats
<ivarela> welcome costales. nice to see you here, in the other side ;)
<maiatoday> congrats costales
<highvoltage> heh, the docs are wrong
<costales> ;)
<drubin> congrats.
<kinouchou> congrats costales
<costales> thanks a lot!
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] [VOTE] Membership for fabrizioballiano
<MootBot> New Topic:  [VOTE] Membership for fabrizioballiano
<highvoltage> uhm, actually...
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] vincentxavier
<MootBot> New Topic:  vincentxavier
<vincentxavier> hi
<YoBoY> hi vincentxavier :)
<halvors> hi
<huats> I support vincentxavier !
<kinouchou> hello vincentxavier :)
 * ogra_cmpc grins about the typo on the wiki 
<YoBoY> lol huats
<highvoltage> vincentxavier: do you use ubuntu at your school?
<ogra_cmpc> leaving near Paris :)
<vincentxavier> highvoltage: I'm planning, but I've just arrived in a new school by monday
<vincentxavier> so I need time :)
<McPeter> hi vincentxavier :)
<ogra_cmpc> nice ! a testemonial from didier
<highvoltage> and huats
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<huats> highvoltage, he deserves it
<huats> :)
<highvoltage> any questions or comments for vincentxavier?
<highvoltage> right, voting time then
<ogra_cmpc> ++
<highvoltage> [VOTE] membership for vincentxavier
<czajkowski> wiki is pretty clear tbh
<MootBot> Please vote on:  membership for vincentxavier.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_cmpc> go for it
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<drubin> +1
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<highvoltage> +1 [ great loco involvement ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<huats> congrats vincentxavier !
<YoBoY> congrats vincentxavier :)
<kinouchou> \o/ vincentxavier
<drubin> congrats! vincentxavier
<costales> congrats! :)
<ogra_cmpc> congrats
<vincentxavier> thanks all of you :)
<halvors> congrats
<McPeter> congrats vincentxavier  :)
<highvoltage> vincentxavier: FÃ©licitations et bienvenue
<czajkowski> vincentxavier: welcome
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] halvors
<MootBot> New Topic:  halvors
<maiatoday> congrats vincentxavier
<halvors> Hi!
<huats> (highvoltage, I see your french lessons start to be used)
<highvoltage> halvors: you've applied before, right?
<halvors> I have been using Ubuntu since 8.04.
<halvors> highvoltage: Yes.
<highvoltage> (huats: ;))
<halvors> I tryed.
<czajkowski> halvors: I'll be honest your wiki is less than complete https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors
<highvoltage> halvors: did we give you any feedback on your application?
<halvors> My contribution to Ubuntu include: testing, bug reports and translation into nb_NO and nn_NO.
<halvors> Yes.
<highvoltage> halvors: and what did we say?
<halvors> I need to do more translation and bug reports work.
<halvors> And that i've done :)
<czajkowski> halvors: I'm pretty sure we also said your wiki needs some information as well
<drubin> halvors: Well you need to document it on your wiki.
<czajkowski> there are no testimonals or links to your work or future plans
<halvors> Document what?
<highvoltage> halvors: we also told you to document your work on the wiki, and get some testimonials from the people you worked with
<czajkowski> halvors: in fact I even offered to help you the last time with your wiki
<highvoltage> [VOTE] halvors
<MootBot> Please vote on:  halvors.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> I said contact me after the meeting and I'd help
<highvoltage> -1 [ incomplete application ]
<MootBot> -1 received from highvoltage. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<czajkowski> -1
<ogra_cmpc> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<MootBot> -1 received from ogra_cmpc. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<halvors> I am not finished.
<highvoltage> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: -3
<stgraber> -1
<drubin> -1  [ czajkowski offered to help you with your wiki you didn't take her help]
<drubin> oops
<highvoltage> (oops, sorry, hit enter button too soon)
<halvors> But i have done a lot of more work... :(
<drubin> halvors: Sorry but my point still stands.
<drubin> halvors: But your wiki hasn't changed at all
<highvoltage> halvors: please apply once you've finished your application
<halvors> Ok, what will i need.
<czajkowski> halvors: you can mail me or contact me at any time on irc possbly not today but any other day ok
<highvoltage> halvors: we'd like to review your application for membership, but we can't do that if the application is pretty much empty
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] cwoollard
<MootBot> New Topic:  cwoollard
<halvors> Write in my wiki that i will continue translateing Ubuntu into my language and continue to report bugs and testing Ubuntu?
<drubin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors?action=diff&rev2=6&rev1=2
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<halvors> Something more?
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cwoollard
<ogra_cmpc> halvors, look at all the other wikis of people that got approved today and also talk to czajkowski
<jenkins> I support chris, he is a brilliant member of the manual team always working hard, he is doing great work at to help drive our releases.
<jenkins> as well as editing an bugs
<czajkowski> ChrisWoollard: hey
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<czajkowski> ChrisWoollard: so care to tell us about your involvement in the communtity
<czajkowski> been involved for a long time but only recently got involved in Ubuntu manual and U1
<ChrisWoollard> I am a linux systems administrator I manage various websites, some of which run ubuntu. I have been using Ubuntu since about 6.06. I spend most of my time on the ubuntu-manual irc channel and helping out with that project. Usually editing, bug management / fixing and helping with translations. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/cwoollard
<ChrisWoollard> I have also tried and succeeded to get ubuntu on our servers at work.
<highvoltage> nice bug management work too
<ogra_cmpc> ChrisWoollard, you are aware that major contributors get sponsoring for UDS ?
<ChrisWoollard> + i have installed ubuntu a few peoples pc's
<ChrisWoollard> yes.
<ogra_cmpc> no need to wait for one in the UK ;)
<ChrisWoollard> :)
 * ogra_cmpc is ready to vote, thats a quite good set of testemonials
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<highvoltage> [VOTE] Membership for ChrisWoollard
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Membership for ChrisWoollard.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<drubin> +1 [Great set of testemonials ]
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<highvoltage> +1 [ documentation work, bug triaging and testing ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1 [good testimonials]
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<highvoltage> ChrisWoollard: congratiolations and welcome!
<ChrisWoollard> Yay..... Thanks
<jenkins> well done ChrisWoollard
<czajkowski> great moving on
 * ChrisWoollard Jumps for joy
<czajkowski> cc are waiting and we've more to do
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] status0
<MootBot> New Topic:  status0
<Status0> Yey ! it's me !! Hellow to all :-)
<czajkowski> Status0: aloha
<highvoltage> Status0: I can't access your LP page at ~it-is-danny
<czajkowski> Status0: any from your team here to support you?
<Status0> ~status0
<highvoltage> are you sure that's your launchpad ID?
<Status0> czajkowski, no. sorry.
<ogra_cmpc> how long have you been involved yet ?
<highvoltage> Status0: your wiki page says that you're active in translations, but your karma is 0, how do you currently contribute translations?
<ogra_cmpc> your wikipage only says that you just started
<Status0> i helping to ubuntu israel translate little thinks but i didnt started yet with lp..
<drubin> Status0: How long have you been involved with Ubuntu-il
<Status0> few months
<ogra_cmpc> sadly thats the way we measure contibutions, launchpad, testemonials from other members, bugfixes etc
<highvoltage> Status0: I see only some recent wall posts on the Facebook group, how do you use the facebook group to attract promote Ubuntu?
<ogra_cmpc> its hard to judge if you dont have much of either
<Status0> highvoltage, yes.
<Status0> I helping for Israeli LoCo team in development of web site and community
<Status0> I tring to develop and publish concept of "Ubuntu is Fun". i tring to show the Israeli society thats is fun to use Ubuntu.
<Status0> i'v marged most of israeli ubuntu groups in facebook to One group and helping to extend the Israeli community.
<Status0> also i working also on videos in Hebrew about Ubuntu (How to Install, Why its free (opensource), Why its fun and "Lets Join to community".
<czajkowski> Status0: I'd like to see you come back when  you've more contributions done we can actually measure, it's just rather hard right now to judge
<highvoltage> any further questions before we vote?
<highvoltage> [VOTE] Status0
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Status0.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> +0 [ great enthusiasm, but not enough evidence of significant, sustained contribution ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<ogra_cmpc> +0 [great enthusiasm, please add more testemonials and measurable work]
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_cmpc. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<drubin> +0 [would like to see you come back with more contributions that are visable]
<MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<drubin> maybe also from other members.
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 0
<highvoltage> Status0: I think you have what it takes to be an ubuntu member, and that you will be one day
<ogra_cmpc> ++
<highvoltage> Status0: you just have to do all the things you say you'll do on the wiki, and get some testimonials from the people you have worked with
<highvoltage> Status0: it will be great to see you re-apply in a few months once you've got some more measurable contributions (and testimonials from people for things that are harder to measure)
<Status0> You right. sorry about your time :-(
<highvoltage> Status0: no problem, thanks for your time too
<czajkowski> Status0: thanks for coming, and we'd like to see you come back
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] wrap-up
<MootBot> New Topic:  wrap-up
<drubin> I added every one to the LP group.
<highvoltage> next meeting should be 12 October, right?
<drubin> who is emailing the lists?
<ogra_cmpc> 12 ?
<highvoltage> I mean the 5th :)
<drubin> highvoltage: yes
<ogra_cmpc> technically it would be 5th
<highvoltage> (sorry got it mixed up with LUG meeting times)
<ogra_cmpc> where half of us will be up to their ears in alligators
<ogra_cmpc> preparing 10.10
<highvoltage> ok, next meeting is at 20:00 UTC on October the 5th
<highvoltage> our last one before UDS!
<ajmitch> ogra_cmpc: sounds exciting
<ogra_cmpc> ajmitch, sounds busy
<highvoltage> then we can get together for beer again :)
<highvoltage> drubin: do you mind posting it to -news, -cc, etc?
<drubin> highvoltage: Nope.
<highvoltage> great
<ajmitch> ogra_cmpc: by that stage you'll be sitting back & relaxing & preparing SRUs since it'll almost be too late for release :)
<drubin> highvoltage: I will clean up the wiki as well
<ogra_cmpc> ajmitch, not in the ARM team
<highvoltage> czajkowski: did you bully someone into being chair for the next meeting yet?
<czajkowski> I pick ogra_cmpc
 * ogra_cmpc refuses
<drubin> highvoltage: It is just -news and -cc
 * czajkowski peers at ogra_cmpc 
<ogra_cmpc> seriously
<czajkowski> bah
<highvoltage> czajkowski: sorry, ogra_cmpc is immune to bullying
<ogra_cmpc> its a very bad time to have a meeting for me, i'm fine to take december
<czajkowski> Seveas: ?
<czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: december is yours
<drubin> I will do October
<czajkowski> grand drubin it is
<czajkowski> great
<ogra_cmpc> thaks a lot drubin
<highvoltage> great. so for cleaning up the wiki, posting to lists, and being the next chair, it's all going to drubin then!
<drubin> ogra_cmpc: no problems I am not a Ubuntu-dev 5th october wont be so bad for me
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<czajkowski> can we wrap up in case the CC folks want to start
<czajkowski> if they're about
<highvoltage> czajkowski: ifaict they don't have a meeting scheduled today
<highvoltage> anythings else before we end?
<highvoltage> ok that's it then!
<highvoltage> [ENDMEETING]
<drubin> Congrats every one that got membership.
<highvoltage> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:20.
<highvoltage> heh, that's quite inconsistent
<costales> Good night! :)
<highvoltage> good night everyone and congratulations to our new members!
<halvors> highvoltage: Is my wiki page better now?
<highvoltage> halvors: it's an improvement, check the wiki pages of the people we approved today for a good idea of what we're looking for
<halvors> I do.
<halvors> I ask you, is there something you think i need.
<halvors> And hope i can get a member at next meeting.
<drubin> halvors: I would strongly suggest not applying for membership next meeting
<drubin> Give it time.
<halvors> Why?
<drubin> it will show you are willing to wait and take the time to get your wiki updated 100%.
<halvors> Ok.
<ogra_cmpc> document the translations too, get testemonials from other translators that worked with you etc
<halvors> I am working on it now.
<drubin> halvors: get friends/IRC buddies/* to come and cheer for the work you have done.
<McPeter> bye bye all
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-08
<Nagaraja> hi all
<huats> morning
<mvo_> hello
<doko> hi
<robbiew> hi
<cjwatson> heya
<robbiew> everyone's here
<robbiew> hmm...except ev
<robbiew> let's get rolling
<Keybuk> he's on the design team now, we can go on without him :p
<robbiew> heh
 * ev fail
<robbiew> (10:05:18 AM) Keybuk: he's on the design team now, we can go on without him :p
<ev> Glade distracted me
<ev> lol
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> mvo_ care to go first?
<mvo_> did
<mvo_> debug lucid->maverick upgrade issues; apt merges/debugging; python-apt fixes; software-center: work on buy-something,merge branches,bugfixes; add screenshot-with-version patch into debshoots (pending upstream approval);
<mvo_> (done)
<robbiew> doko?
<doko> last week at OOoCon, icedtea6-1.9 uploads for maverick, fall back to openjdk 6b18 on armel, more gcc cross merges, OOo armel build, binutils update, eglibc update
<robbiew> thnx
<doko> and having fun with xvfb
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> short week; bug 627654; landed pep 3149; gtimelog update and packaging; (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 627654 in twisted (Ubuntu) "package python-twisted-core 10.0.0-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627654
<cjwatson> landed> cool!
<barry> \o/
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> psurbhi?
<psurbhi> 1) worked on understanding md devices initialization/bring up and understanding the requirements for making it event driven
<psurbhi> 2) worked on bug 628400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628400 in mdadm (Ubuntu Maverick) "[regression] boot degraded question never posed" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628400
<psurbhi> ..
<psurbhi> (done)
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> Keybuk?
<robbiew> he's either typing an insanely long update...or has drifted away
<Keybuk> working on: making the ureadahead reprofiling history not take a significant percentage of disk space,
<Keybuk>  keep getting distracted by things :-(
<Keybuk> --
<Keybuk> no, he got told to "TAKE A BREAK!" and couldn't apparently click the no button
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> cjwatson?
<cjwatson> done: beta release; battling to get grub/uefi working, with manjo and superm1; worked out how to prepare test USB images in KVM so that more bugs are easily accessible; finished display_message implementation in plymouth details splash plugin
<cjwatson> todo: move lvm2 to /dev/mapper symlinks; ubiquity reboot issues (oem-priority); sort out /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d chaos; oem-config bugs on USB; update gparted to 0.6.2
<cjwatson> --
<robbiew> and for me
<robbiew> Finished up interviews and made an offer; neck deep in bugs as release manager; and prodding folks to get objectives in...hint..hint
<mvo_> *cough* objectives *cough*
<robbiew> also ordered some port replicator thingy for cjwatson ;)
<robbiew> uefi is so much *fun*
<cjwatson> serial console pain
<robbiew> [TOPIC] 10.10 bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.10 bugs
<ev> oh whatevs
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> there we go :-P
<ev> fixing bugs and taking names.  Got quite a few of the major ones in ubiquity covered off.  Discussions with the design team (ha ha) on the hostname issue, the automatic login issue, and the wording on the prepare page.
<ev> Still to do: the bugs requested of me by cjwatson and robbiew, running jockey with the passthrough frontend (somehow - it uses python-apt which makes getting it to receive debconf-apt-progress's apt options tricky and I've been unsuccessful on convincing that to use a different debconf frontend - help wanted ;) )
<ev> getting dylan to land the new slideshow, getting the installer panel wrapped in ck-launch-session so that it gets the XDG cookie (gtk-logout-helper needs to do CK), fixing the wireless page, fixing the disk total size on the partitioner page.
<ev> blocked: Waiting to hear back from IS on the geonames service (RT 40560) and the installer testing stuff in Millbank (RT 40559, RT 39986)
<ev> (done)
<robbiew> thnx
<cjwatson> the IS stuff is on my queue for Monday - does it need to be escalated before that?
<cjwatson> if so, it might be a plan to escalate directly with #is
<robbiew> oh...and that reminds me that I'm working on getting a wubi.ubuntu.com...which is WAY more process involved than I anticipated
<ev> entirely up to you - if you think we need the geonames server up and running for CD testing before monday, then yes.  Otherwise no.
<robbiew> it might be easier to just add a /wubi to releases.ubuntu.com and call it a day :/
<ev> I'm surprised this isn't in the hands of the design team, as it's simply another part of the main website.
<robbiew> ev: well...there's a "committee" now
<ev> oh dear
<robbiew> http://www.sadtrombone.com
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.sadtrombone.com
<ev> lol
<robbiew> anywho...thnx ev
<robbiew> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27462
<robbiew> nothing too crazy there
<robbiew> and nothing insane in the nomination queue
<robbiew> are there any bugs that folks want/need to discuss?
<cjwatson> bug 605042 is entirely linaro?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605042 in eglibc (Ubuntu Maverick) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<doko> yes
<cjwatson> I mean, their responsibility
<cjwatson> I have some difficulties with apt-cdrom right now
<doko> well, it seems to be a kernel issue with the lucid babbage kernel
<cjwatson> this is for bug 628290 et al
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628290 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) "OEM installation, missing "Prepare for shipping to end user" icon" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628290
<cjwatson> I'm having some trouble mashing our persistent USB sticks into a shape where apt-cdrom isn't going to think that their ident hashes keep changing
<cjwatson> because its algorithm is basically designed for read-only filesystems, and suddenly in this case /cdrom is, well, not
<cjwatson> I think I might be able to get away with it by moving the persistent copy-on-write file out of the root directory and whack-a-moling whatever else happens to change top-level directory timestamps, but was wondering if mvo had any better ideas
<mvo_> cjwatson: hm, I wonder if we can simply use the stuff in .disk as identifier?
<cjwatson> by way of minimal change, maybe do that if /cdrom is writable?
<mvo_> cjwatson: yes, that sounds reasonable
<cjwatson> then we're guaranteed nothing will change for real CDs
<cjwatson> it uses the stuff in .disk/info as a prompt anyway
<mvo_> yeah, I can do this change today
<cjwatson> if you think that's a good plan, I can knock together a patch ... or that
<cjwatson> cool, thank you
<mvo_> ok
 * cjwatson blinks at the desktop team.  I know it's wishlist, but why is bug 483001 targeted to maverick and milestoned for ubuntu-10.10 at this point?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/483001)
<cjwatson> ([needs-packaging] Wayland)
<robbiew> hmm...that does seem odd
<cjwatson> anyway, I don't see a lot else there that we need to discuss; all the other bugs I would ask about seem to be being handled
<robbiew> yep
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<cjwatson> I suggest people look through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs if they're short of specific things to do
<cjwatson> there will be quite a few targets of opportunity there
<robbiew> +1
<robbiew> cjwatson: is this bug still considered "New" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/grub2/+bug/623609
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/623609)
<robbiew> meh...seems to be assigned to Server, so will let them handle it
<doko> short of? lol ...
 * mvo_ was thinking the same
 * robbiew saw grub2 and didn't bother reading the assignee :/
<cjwatson> robbiew: bumped to Confirmed, though I owe smoser an hour's solid thought about that bug
<robbiew> ok
<cjwatson> he has been asking for my help
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News?
 * robbiew made a decision and is proceeding with an offer for the opening on the team \o/
<barry> yay!
<ev> I got a notification area implementation in the installer panel.  So now we'll have the network manager applet there right from the get-go
<ev> robbiew: hooray
<robbiew> ev: nice!
<mvo_> cool
<robbiew> okay...seems to be it
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
<robbiew> thanks all!
<ev> thanks
<mvo_> thanks
<barry> thanks
<highvoltage> bonjour / hola / hello / goeiedag / molo!
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting agenda is unchanged since last week, I guess no one had some time to look at it :)
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<dinda> howdy
<highvoltage> hey dinda
<highvoltage> I'll try to be super-quick with updates. today I'm working on some bugs that prevent edubuntu from upgrading corretly from 10.04 -> 10.10
<highvoltage> stgraber worked on our ubiquity ltsp/netbook installer stuff. it might even be finished in time to get into this release at this rate
<highvoltage> I made some changes to the website, also added a documentation page: http://edubuntu.org/documentation
<highvoltage> I'll poke mgariepy this week to write up something about the edubuntu menu editor that we can put up there
<highvoltage> I'll put together the what-is-edubunt slides on the main page too this coming weekend
<highvoltage> and I've put together some edubutu slides for the installer slideshow for 10.10: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/ubiquity-slideshow/
<alkisg> Hi all
<highvoltage> that's it from me basically :)
<highvoltage> hey alkisg
<highvoltage> any news from anyone else?
 * alkisg is just writing some ltsp troubleshooting wiki pages these days...
<dinda> site is looking nice, doc page is good
<dinda> just a reminder for anyone seeking UDS sponsorship, I think the deadline is this week
 * mhall119 is here
<mhall119> almost on time
<highvoltage> it's today
<mhall119> I applied yesterday
<highvoltage> anything else for today or shall we make it a super-quick meeting? :)
<mhall119> I see they're starting to put tracks on summit.ubuntu.com
<mhall119> highvoltage: I was curious, what parts of Edubuntu can I test from VirtualBox?
 * stgraber waves
<mhall119> and which of those needs some specific attention
<highvoltage> mhall119: pretty much all of it
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> mhall119: the netbook interface won't work though, it requires hardware accelleration
<stgraber> tomorrow's image should have most of the new stuff
<mhall119> I used it for get screenshots for debian
<mhall119> highvoltage: virtualbox does passthru 3d acceleration
<mhall119> enough for compiz anyway
<mhall119> I just have the DVD download so far
<mhall119> is the netbook interface on that?
<mhall119> stgraber: cool, I'll have to zsync it
<highvoltage> mhall119: have you ever got it working even half-way properly?
<mhall119> I haven't tried netbook
<mhall119> or do you mean compiz?
<highvoltage> even compiz is *very* slow on virtualbox on my ati and intel chips
<highvoltage> maybe it's faster on nvidia
<mhall119> hmm, to be honest I haven't tried, Qimo disables it by default
<mhall119> I have an intel GPU
<mhall119> and not a particularly good one
<highvoltage> well, try it and you'll see :)
<mhall119> does the netbook interface use whatever new UI they've got for UNE?
<highvoltage> yes, the network inerface is on the dvd, you should be able to install it from ubiquity from tomorrow's build onwards
<mhall119> because I've heard that doesn't run real well on older netbooks
<highvoltage> mhall119: yep, it is unity
<mhall119> meh, probably won't be nice to my pre-Atom EeePC 701
<highvoltage> yeah those are getting quite long in the tooth :)
<ScottK> mhall119: Is this on Maverick?
<mhall119> ScottK: that's what I've been testing, but I have only hearsay about Unity
<mhall119> highvoltage: it still runs Qimo just fine
<highvoltage> mhall119: it shouldn't run much worse than what qimo does, the 701 has accelerated graphics
<ScottK> If you are running Intel based video on Maverick, you'll almost certainly have more luck with the mesa from the sarvatt/mesa PPA (this is being aimed at the release, shortly).
<ScottK> highvoltage: mesa is currently in very bad shape on Maverick.
<mhall119> highvoltage: yeah, but no SSE3, which seems to help boost graphics speeds
<highvoltage> mhall119: meh. buy a new netbook, they're cheap :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: I bought this one used for $100
<mhall119> the kids use it on trips
<mhall119> I'm not buying them a new one to run tuxpaint
<highvoltage> :)
<mhall119> though, ironically, it's the only one of our 6 computers that runs Skype perfectly
<highvoltage> they're pretty much underpowered for anything modern though. I think they have the same CPU's as the original classmate
<mhall119> dinda or highvoltage, is there going to be an official "Education" track for UDS?
<highvoltage> (mobile celeron 900)
<mhall119> highvoltage: yup, that's the one
<mhall119> and 4GB SSD
<highvoltage> mhall119: I doubt it, I guess we'll just integrate with those tracks
<mhall119> :(
<highvoltage> stgraber: you're an administrator on that site, do you have any info on what we can do?
<mhall119> that can't be all the tracks though
<mhall119> there's always a community track at least
<stgraber> we'll just book in the existing tracks
<highvoltage> I guess "Application Selection and Defaults" will cover most of our tracks
<highvoltage> that seems to be the new desktop track
<dinda> mhall119: most of the topics can be covered in other tracks
<mhall119> I'm going to try and get my brother to come over for a day or two, he's the Qimo artist
<highvoltage> and the serer stuff in cloud
<highvoltage> community stuff in governance I suppose
<highvoltage> sorry I'm just blabbering now ;)
<mhall119> hmmm, summit seems quite broken at the moment
<dinda> highvoltage: stgraber:  Tom Hoffman of SchoolTool said he was at UDS Brussels - did you folks meet with that team?
<highvoltage> dinda: yep
<dinda> he didn't sound like he had plans to be in Orlando but they are trying to make the Natty deadlines
<highvoltage> dinda: well, I was skyped into our sessin, at least :)
<stgraber> dinda: I did
<highvoltage> dinda: we've been communicating off-list recentlly, they're going to skip maverick and we'll work together on it for natty as soon as the archives open
<dinda> yip, that's what he told me as well, sounds like they have the packaging under control
<mhall119> sounds like me
<dinda> a question about "building your own ubuntu" came from a school administrator. . .
<dinda> looking for a way to do custom images - is there documentation on that?
<mhall119> how complex are the customizations?
<mhall119> there are tools for re-building an ISO with modifications to the installed packages that work fairly well
<dinda> highvoltage: I think this could be part of the Edbuntu install server
<mhall119> dinda: did they mean customizing it after install, or customizing an install image?
<dinda> mhall119: They are really just looking for a way to choose exactly which apps to install
<highvoltage> dinda: yep, there's some really good documentation on that on the ubuntu wiki
<dinda> customizing an install image
<mhall119> "uck" will respin the live cd ISO
<mhall119> not sure if it'll work on a dvd iso though
<highvoltage> it will.
<highvoltage> (at, least, it will the edubuntu iso)
<dinda> can one of you point me to that wiki page?
<highvoltage> dinda: uck is http://uck.sourceforge.net/
<mhall119> http://uck.sourceforge.net/ is the website
<mhall119> dang it
<mhall119> or apt-get install uck
<highvoltage> dinda: I'll have a website available soon where you'll be able to choose which iso you want and which packages you want on it, and it will then spin a custom cd for you that you can download, I'll point you to that once it's available
<dinda> perfect, that will get them started
<highvoltage> well, soon as in, probably a month from now :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: cool
<dinda> highvoltage: wow, that would be awesome, will that be on the edubuntu site?
<highvoltage> dinda: I can perhaps link to it from the edubuntu site, but I'm sure the canonical sysadmins will hate me if I start building cd images for everyone on their web servers :)
<dinda> true!
<highvoltage> it's basically going to be a modification of http://studio.debian.net/
<highvoltage> I'll use the interface and just replace the actual build scripts with my own that will need some slight modification
<dinda> anything else?
<mhall119> not from me
<mhall119> looking forward to seeing everyone at UDS and planning a rocking 11.04
<dinda> not much to report from me -
<dinda> mhall119: still need to ping you and wife about 'what parents need to know about Ubuntu"
<dinda> mhall119: will she be online tonight?
<mhall119> parents?  i thought you wanted to know about schools
<dinda> mhall119: parents too
<mhall119> i think she'll be around tonight, but not likely tomorrow or Friday
<highvoltage> sorry I got distracted by work
<highvoltage> yeah uds should be fun :)
<highvoltage> let's head to #edubuntu... *GONG*
<dinda> :)
<dinda> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-09
<manuel_> hola
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-10
<seb128> hey
<skaet> looks like its getting close to time...
<ScottK> o/
 * apw is here for ogasawara for kernel
<ttx> o/
 * ScottK is here for both Kubuntu and MOTU.
<jdstrand> o/
 * joshuahoover is here for ubuntu one
<skaet> hi seb128, ttx, apw, ScottK, Jstrand, joshuahhoover....   :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [TOPIC] release health check
<MootBot> New Topic:  release health check
<skaet> any OMG's (as robbiew puts it)?
<ScottK> The biggest issue I'm aware of is the FFe for Mesa.
<ScottK> It may be an OMG, but we won't know until after.
<robbiew> yeah
<skaet> ok,  thanks for putting it on the radar.
<robbiew> I would agree...a possible OMG...or even WTF...but could end up being a NP :P
<skaet> heh
<ScottK> Yep.
 * skaet looks around
<marjo> robbiew: that's quite a range of expected outcomes
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA update
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA update
<marjo> Hardware testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Laptops
<marjo>      Passed:   41 (89%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  5 (11%)
<marjo>  Servers:
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo>  Desktops:
<marjo>      Passed:    3 (27%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested: 11 (73%)
<marjo> The reason for the large number of untested systems is due to a bug that crept into the HW Cert lab environment during testing of a new use case for checkbox. This was fixed late yesterday and results have started coming back in, so the numbers should be back up next week.
<marjo> Boot Performance
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~ameetp/BootChart.html
<marjo> Boot Performance Week of 2010-09-06 to 2010-09-10
<marjo> -------------------------------------------------
<marjo> Number of system regressions on Ubuntu Desktop: 0
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ameetp/BootChart.html
<marjo> Maverick Beta Test Report
<marjo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/MaverickBetaTestReport
<marjo>  * Image Coverage: 50/52 = 96%
<marjo>    Uncovered images:
<marjo>    * Netboot arm dove
<marjo>  * Test Failure Analysis
<marjo>  * 22 Test Failures; Failure Rate 22/213 = 10%
<marjo> if there are folks out there who can help testing w/ the above uncovered images, we would appreciate your help
<marjo> we are always shooting for 100% coverage for images and mandatory test cases
<marjo> Unresolved Critical/High Release Targeted Bugs
<marjo>     * 625076:checkbox fails to verify ssl validity in data exchange with launchpad.net
<marjo>      * cr3 will fix and have merged by end of next week
<marjo> that's all folks, skaet
<skaet> marjo, seb128,  are the retracers all healthy again?
<seb128> yes since yesterday
<skaet> :)
<seb128> they are catching up on retracing
 * ScottK 's inbox has proof.
 * skaet wonders what will be in the bug list tomorrow ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team Update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team Update
<jdstrand> hi
<skaet> o/
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Looking at our burdown chart, it shows we are behind, but what is left for us is not tied to the release (eg, wiki documentation, etc). So in that regard, we are good.
<jdstrand> We have a few bugs with the apparmor userspace. jjohansen and sbeattie (and others) have worked hard to get an apparmor 2.5.1 release candidate, which is a bugfix only release over our 2.5+patches version in maverick. I plan to upload the 2.5.1 rc version of apparmor userspace today. This is required for maverick to get the userspace tools to work properly with the maverick kernel.
<skaet> thanks.
<jdstrand> other than that, we don't have much
<skaet> any questions for security?
<jdstrand> and by 'much' I mean 'nothing' :)
<jdstrand> err
<jdstrand> 'anything'
<skaet> heh
<ScottK> In other words lots of free time to help everyone else out.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel Team Update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team Update
<jdstrand> ScottK: well, there still are the stable releases we are taking care of ;)
<ScottK> Details.
 * skaet looks for apw
<jdstrand> hehe
 * apw appears
<apw> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> Of the bugs called out in the agenda, there seems to be three bugs were noted under the Kernel Team section in the agenda which are not yet obviously kernel related:
<apw> Bug 633392 - There's no evidence in the bug report that this has been confirmed against a Maverick kernel nor that it's even a kernel related issue.  hallyn appears to be assigned to and tracking the bug so we assume he'll ping the kernel team should this indeed be determined as a kernel issue.
<apw> Bug 625294 - Filed against syslinux and currently assigned to the Foundations team.
<apw> Bug 625110 - Filed against udev, assigned to pitti, and seems to have been Fix Released.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633392 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "Bridged Guests losing network connectivity" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633392
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625294 in syslinux (Ubuntu Maverick) "Unable to boot maverick daily images -- RAM not detected" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625110 in udev (Ubuntu Maverick) "usb-modeswitch 1.1.4 doesn't switch any device" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625110
<apw> For the remaining bugs, status is as follows:
<apw> Bug 615722 - We don't support a fsl-imx51 kernel in Maverick so have asked for clarification from the assigned kernel dev (cooloney).
<apw> Bug 628029 - Assigned to kernel dev (lag) and potential fix appears to be coming soon.
<apw> Bug 613083 - Assigned to kernel dev (jjohansen) and being investigated.
<apw> Bug 606373 - Assigned to kernel dev (jjohansen) and being investigated.
<cjwatson> um, yeah, syslinux != linux :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615722 in linux-fsl-imx51 (Ubuntu Maverick) "Missing a patch to switch low power mode only support in mc13892 2.0a" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628029 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] panda ES1.0 does not suspend on beta image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628029
<ubottu> Bug 613083 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/613083 is private
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Maverick) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<apw> The remaining bugs are either closed or awaiting confirmation before closing.
<apw> As a general status, we're approaching Maverick Kernel Freeze on Sept 16 at which point we will transition to our SRU policy.  ogasawara plans to do our final Maverick kernel uploads on Fri, Sept 17.  Getting any changes applied and uploaded beyond that will be tight as we anticipate the archive freezing approximate 1 week prior to RC, which requires any kernel uploads to happen a few days prior to give enough lead time for builds to complete.  Also,
<apw> we remain below the trend line for our overall burn down chart and any remaining work items are not release critical.
<apw> <done>
<skaet> thanks apw
<apw> (ogasawara did the leg work :)
<skaet> will make changes to agenda (and sort bugs into right place ...)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundation team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundation team update
<cjwatson> Lots of hot bugs fixed over the last week.  There's a respectable number to go, but the numbers are looking good.
<cjwatson> We have now confirmed UEFI installations working on an Intel test system, in time to demonstrate it at a show.
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#RC%20Milestoned%20bugs is up to date.
<cjwatson> Most of the bugs are in progress and doing well, or fixed since the agenda was prepared.  We lost some time to fixing regressions that arose when some Launchpad systems were upgraded to Lucid.
<cjwatson> Bugs that are of concern:
<cjwatson> Bug:459639 - X server starts randomly in failsafe when starting from cold boot
<cjwatson>  Looks as though, contrary to previous suggestions, this is not as much to do with GRUB gfxpayload=keep as we thought.  This needs careful analysis by somebody with an affected system.
<cjwatson> Bug:553745 - plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()
<cjwatson>  Nobody is actively working on this, and it's likely to be hard.
<cjwatson> Bug:625383 - grub hangs at early booting after handoff from PXE
<cjwatson> --
<cjwatson>  This looks as though it may be a BIOS bug, and it's not clear what we can do about it.
<cjwatson> sigh, wrong format for ubottu, but that's most of what it would have said anyway
<cjwatson> I've asked robbiew to ask Keybuk for help on 459639
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> and he will send Keybuk a twitter message, as that's apparently the best way to contact him (lol)
<skaet> robbiew,   what are the options for 553745?
<robbiew> eh...we either fix it or release note it ;)
<skaet> heh
<robbiew> it's assigned to this slacker...slangsek
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> slangasek actually
<cjwatson> I'd volunteer, but I already have something to do with half the bugs on our list
<ttx> cjwatson: + half the bugs in others lists :)
<skaet> indeed,  have been seeing all the closures.  Thanks.
<robbiew> I can talk to Keybuk about it
<robbiew> see if he can help
<skaet> thanks.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update
<ttx> o/
<skaet> o/
<ttx> Our status updated at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<ttx> Release-milestoned bugs:
<ttx> Bug 617053 - on upgrade from 1.6.2, euca_upgrade should preserve DISABLE_ISCSI="Y" (Daviey): fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617053 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "on upgrade from 1.6.2, euca_upgrade should preserve DISABLE_ISCSI="Y"" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617053
<ttx> I thin kthis one is fixed by the very recent euca upload
<ttx> Bug 623609 - grub-pc needs some help in uec instances (smoser): in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623609 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub-pc needs some help in uec instances" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623609
<ttx> this one is one of "those" that may need some cjwatson help
<ttx> I think the discussion is already ongoing between smoser and colin
<ttx> Bug 632696 - libvirt won't start a VM with serial or console when apparmor is enabled (jdstrand): in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 632696 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "libvirt won't start a VM with serial or console when apparmor is enabled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/632696
<ttx> Other Critical/High Maverick bugs:
<ttx> Bug 620441 - MySQL upstart stop job does not cleanly shutdown mysql (SpamapS): pending upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620441 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu Maverick) "MySQL upstart stop job does not cleanly shutdown mysql" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620441
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 628055 - Instances don't start correctly: Security Labeling error running aa_change_profile (Daviey): more investigation needed
<cjwatson> yep, working on 623609 right now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628055 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "Instances don't start correctly: Security Labeling error running aa_change_profile()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628055
<cjwatson> (belatedly)
<ttx> Bug 582963 - apache2 SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input (zul): more investigation needed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in apache2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<ttx> I'll let the reader look into the report for the other "targets of opportunity"... two remarks:
<ttx> Bug 599342 (listed on your agenda list)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599342 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "Temporary failure in name resolution" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599342
<ttx> is pending fix confirmation from OP, we might just upload it
<ttx> Bug 634102
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634102 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Lucid) "t1.micro instances hang on reboot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634102
<ttx> I might target this one to release, given the sudden popularity of this new instance type
<ttx> On the specs side...
<ttx> Outdated burn-UP chart available at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.10.html
<ttx> we closed quite a few items in the last hours, not refreshed yet, so we are on track
<ttx> All specs are disconnected fro mrelease anyway
<ttx> Essential/High/Medium specs < 25% completion:
<ttx> server-maverick-hadoop-pig (20%)
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-seed-review (0%)
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-images-sans-cloud (0%)
<ttx> server-maverick-workitemtracker (0%)
<ttx> That's all from me, questions ?
<skaet> Thanks ttx  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update
<seb128> hey
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> .
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> Work items summary: We are on track for maverick, most of the items remaining on the chart are testsuite or bug workflow ones
<seb128> Week work summary:
<seb128>     * Unity got updated to a new version
<seb128>     * Lot of bugs have been fixed otherwise
<seb128>  
<seb128> Notes:
<seb128> * GNOME 2.31.92 tarballs are on monday
<seb128> * GNOME 2.32 is two weeks after that
<seb128> * we might have another gobject-introspection abi change and transition (nothing use those really yet but that would mean rebuilding the rdepends) next week
<seb128>  
<seb128> Bugs:
<seb128> bug #628077: intel driver issue with a patch available in ppa, still need to be uploaded
<seb128> bug #615549: needs tweaking in the upstart script still under work to determine which one
<seb128> bug #610600: the issue is being investigated and discussed with upstream, it's better in maverick but we don't really have the competence in the team to work on it directly
<seb128> bug #606706: bug assigned to pitti who will be back next week
<seb128> bug #602899: bug assigned to our xorg maintainer who thinks it might be fixed in the current version, needs confirmation from the submitter
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628077 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Maverick) "[i865] Crash on logout with KDM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628077
<seb128> bug #522538: bug assigned to the gwibber maintainer for investigation
<seb128> bug #329898: interaction in some locales with ibus issue, needs to be confirmed on maverick still
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615549 in gdm (Ubuntu Maverick) "Dell Studio XPS 13 no video" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615549
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610600 in gstreamer0.10 (Ubuntu Lucid) "Serious video performance regression in cheese (2.28.1->2.30.1)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606706 in pm-utils (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] HD spins down all the time on AC" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606706
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602899 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Maverick) "[gm45] Xserver crash" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522538 in desktopcouch "gwibber-service crashed with error in connect()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329898 in ibus (Ubuntu Maverick) "The HP 1018 printer not work out of the box if used non-US locale" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329898
<seb128> bug #575160: universe package, bug assigned to a community member
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575160 in seamonkey (Ubuntu Maverick) "seamonkey 2.0 crashes with 'RenderBadPicture' diagnostics" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575160
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's it
<seb128> oh, and we have some holidays coming in the team
<seb128> but others should be able to cover
<seb128> we are just low on GNOME maintainers for 10 days
<skaet> cool.
<seb128> but I will be back for 2.32
<seb128> that's it from me
 * doko grumbles about the non-working xvfb
<seb128> questions?
<skaet> thanks seb128,  questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team
 * skaet looks for joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MaverickReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> hi! the list of high/critical u1 bugs are found on that release status page i posted
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MaverickReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> the good news is that ubuntu one sso should now be working and this includes working with the u1 music store and tomboy
<joshuahoover> we also have a desktopcouch package being released today that will fix some issues with couchdb pairing (for syncing couchdb) and making u1 preferences display account/devices info
<joshuahoover> a couple bugs that are in question...
<joshuahoover> bug #617656 is at risk of not making final freeze...it does not appear to affect everyone but we need to get it fixed...just taking a while to troubleshoot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617656 in Ubuntu One Client "nautilus hangs while asking for folders" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617656
<joshuahoover> bug #565648 we're no longer able to reproduce...unless we hear otherwise, we're going to consider this fixed or invalid...we'll give it through the rest of today to hear back.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565648 in libubuntuone "Rhythmbox fails to start, cites music store errors" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565648
<joshuahoover> the rest of the bugs we have targeted for maverick we feel good about getting done and packaged up wednesday (15th)
<skaet> :)
<joshuahoover> any questions?
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu team update
<ScottK> Things for Kubuntu are in pretty good shape if we get the new Mesa.  New Ubiquity cleared up the most serious installer issues from beta.  We have quite a number of final package updates to do for next week, so it will be busy.
<ScottK> If we don't get the new Mesa, then we get to have Kwin upstream write us patches he can't test due to lack of hardware and hope for the best.
 * skaet keeping fingers crossed for Mesa then...
<ScottK> seb128: I still get the X crash on logout with KDM, so 628077 is not fixed.
<Riddell> yes more testing of ubiquity needed but I think it'll be fine.  kubuntu-mobile should have working images today for the first time although that needs more testing too of course
<ScottK> Oh, you're here.
<Riddell> briefly :)
<rickspencer3> ScottK, Riddell is it possible to find someone with the hardware so they can turn around the testing for you in a reasonable time?
<Riddell> we're mostly good on ARM builds too, just KOffice being a pain
<seb128> ScottK, the comment on the bug said you tested the ppa and it worked, can you update the bug?
<ScottK> seb128: The PPA isn't what was uploaded to the archive.  I'll comment in the bug.
<Riddell> I expect to get final Qt tars on the 16th, which is cutting it close to final freeze, and even that's not guaranteed
<seb128> ScottK, "intel driver issue with a patch available in ppa, still need to be uploaded " was my summary
<Riddell> but we can take a git snapshot if nothing else, they're in deep freeze too and it's just symbian bugs they're blocking on
<seb128> ScottK, is the ppa change working or not? if it is it's just a matter of getting it uploaded, thanks
<ScottK> seb128: Oh.  Missed that.
<ScottK> I'll check.
<seb128> thanks
<skaet> any other questions for ScottK,  Riddell?
<skaet> thanks ScottK,  looks like a full plate for next week.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop experience team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop experience team update
<davidbarth> hi
<skaet> hi
<davidbarth> usual report at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> this week i actually added a status for all the bugs mentioned in the release agenda
<davidbarth> for a change ;)
<davidbarth> the good news is: we've got all of our annoying desktop bugs sorted
<skaet> cool.   will bring it up and look after the meeting.
<davidbarth> see the top of the report, appmenu is now on the safer side of things
<davidbarth> unity gets some nice fixes, including I18N ones and XDG for the plaform to finalize the integration
<davidbarth> bad news: tons of leaks and rendering artifacts we're chasing for 4 days
<skaet> :(
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> thanks davidbarth
<skaet> [TOPIC] Arm team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Arm team update
<YianPan71> kalhspera sas  :))
<cjwatson> YianPan71: we're in the middle of a meeting
<YianPan71> no word hellenika??
 * ogra waves
 * skaet looks for ogra?
<skaet> heh
<ogra> sorry just coming out of a call
<cjwatson> YianPan71: not in this channel
<ogra> Full status is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Short summary
<ogra>  * work was done to move the omap4 images over to the new hardware (ES2.0) release.
<ogra>  * Image changes were made to support the full amount of 1 gigabyte of ram on the pandaboard now (which resulted indeed in additional bugs like LP 633227)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633227 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "instabilities with highmem activated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633227
<ogra>  * nearly all graphics issues with HDMI on the pandaboard were solved in cooperation with TI
<YianPan71> ok
<ogra>  * plenty XM bugs were fixed that enabled our omap3 images on the XM board
<ogra>  * the FTBFS list on http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs is largely empty for main (armel)
<ogra>  * a critical bug with the buildd kernels (bug 605042) was found by linaro, we are still investigating how to solve it.
<ogra>  * dove images were improved further
<ogra>  * missing kernel headers for omap4 were added to the images which exposed a bug in the linux-ti-omap4 (thanks to apw for tireless work to fix it ... you rock !!!)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605042 in eglibc (Ubuntu Maverick) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Image Status
<ogra>  * omap4 images are switched to the ES2.0 HW release, omap3 images work fully on the beagle XM board now.
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Specs
<ogra> Implemented:
<ogra>  * UbuntuSpec:preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap
<ogra>  * UbuntuSpec:mobile-m-image-builds-without-root
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Still in progress:
<ogra> ...
<ogra>  * UbuntuSpec:mobile-maverick-arm-improved-subarch-detection
<ogra>  * UbuntuSpec:mobile-m-omap-edid-autodetection
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Dropped:
<ogra> ...
<ogra>  * UbuntuSpec:mobile-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Progress:
<ogra>  * Entire http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra>  * Beta: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Blocker Bugs:
<ogra>  * Bug:633227: OMAP4 board instabilities with highmem activated
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Expected serious impact for final release
<ogra>  * We will get the final hardware for OAMP4 only very late in september or even in early october, it might be necessary that the OMAP4 image release gets delayed
<ogra>  * The above will also likely require late kernel and bootloader package changes and uploads to the archive. since the Hardware does not exist yet it is unprdictable in which amount the impact is.
<ogra> the eglibc bug is actually a kernel bug on our buildds ... sadly our imx51 kernel maintiner is fully tied up in omap4 work :/
<ogra> we are talking to linaro if it is possible to use their upstream kernel on the buildds but thats indeed a bit dangerous (untested etc)
<ogra> i cant say much about the ES2.1 (which is the final) omap4 hardware yet, but we are using linaros u-boot bootloader package and might require a very  late update here
<ogra> all other impacted packages are solely ubuntu arm stuff and will not have any impact on other teams
<ogra> (thats all from me ... )
<skaet> definitely worrisome about the OMAP4 hardware...   will keep it on the "to watch closely" list.
<skaet> thanks ogra
<skaet> any questions?
<ogra> oh, we are regulary building kubuntu omap3 images now ...
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update
<ogra> (sorry for missing that(
<skaet> np
<ScottK> Hello
 * skaet waves
<ScottK> Concerned about the number of FTBFS and the amount of NBS work left undone.
<ScottK> FTBFS is about double what it is on Lucid (for the archs we still have)
<ScottK> NBS list is not short.
<ScottK> If anyone has people with spare time, these can use help.
 * iulian nods.
<doko> ScottK: is this from the lucas list?
<ScottK> doko: I'm just looking at the qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs list.  Stuff that's actually FTBFS in the archive.
<ScottK> lucas' list will have other stuff, not all is really a problem.
<cjwatson> the NBS list is http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<cjwatson> anything with file size 0 there is ready for removal and doesn't need to be worried about
 * ScottK blames slangasek for getting a new job where he has to do real work and can't work on NBS.
<ScottK> (he and pitti have often done a lot of this kind of thing in previous cycles)
<skaet> thanks for the context.  :)
<skaet> so its a gap.   Will dig into it a bit.
<skaet> any other questions for ScottK?
<ScottK> iulian: Feel free to jump in if I missed anything.
<iulian> ScottK: Nop, I don't think you've missed something.
<ScottK> OK.
<skaet> thanks ScottK, iulian
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro team update
<cjwatson> right.  I do the auto NBS removals fairly frequently, but haven't had much time to dig into non-trivial things
 * skaet looks for JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> skaet: ah sorry, just out of a meeting :(
<skaet> np,  any updates?
<ScottK> iulian: Could you send mail to the MOTU list asking people to look at FTBFS/NBS?
<JamieBennett> skaet: Nothing much release related to report apart from one FFe that just got approved for cross compiler packages. Other than that we have bugs that we are working on that won't effect the release
<iulian> ScottK: Sure, I can do that later on.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<JamieBennett> skaet: more info on the bugs we are tracking at https://wiki.linaro.org/Releases/WeeklyReleaseMeeting/2010-09-09
<JamieBennett> skaet: EOF
<skaet> Thanks JamieBennett.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] 10.4.2 LTS Update
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.4.2 LTS Update
<skaet> this needs a bit of focus...   will discuss further with Robbiew.
<skaet> [TOPIC]  Any other comments/questions/etc.?
<MootBot> New Topic:   Any other comments/questions/etc.?
 * skaet looks around,   maybe this will be a short meeting?
<doko> wait ...
<doko> the last merge from the linaro gcc is now in place. I plan to make no-change uploads next weeks for package which land on the CD and which were not recently rebuilt
<doko> starting on Monday
<ScottK> Do you have a list?
<doko> not yet
<skaet> anything else?
<robbiew> 4 weeks to Maverick...yeehaw!
<skaet> :)
 * robbiew had too much coffee this morning...heh
 * skaet laying in the coffee supplies for next week.
<skaet> thanks everyone.  :)
<marjo> skaet: thx!
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:09.
<seb128> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-11
<ManuelC> hola
<ManuelC> alguien que pueda dar inforacion de ubuntu team colombia?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-12
<Lifeless_> buenas, aquÃ­ me pueden dar ayuda? o es en otro canal
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-05
<roadmr> hey folks! looks it's time for the Ubuntu Friendly meeting!
<roadmr> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep  5 15:01:08 2011 UTC.  The chair is roadmr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<roadmr> hm, new bot...
 * holstein would like to thank akgraner officially for presenting at our LUG yesterday about ubuntu friendly
<holstein> http://www.wnclug.info/2011/08/ubuntu-friendly_30.html
<victorp> o/
<roadmr> victorp, go ahead
<victorp> I would like to say thanks too to akgraner!
<victorp>  ;)
<victorp> roadmr, what is the agenda for today?
<victorp> ..
<roadmr> ok, first topic on the agenda
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Friendly sprint and comments on the mockups for the websites
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Friendly sprint and comments on the mockups for the websites
<roadmr> As you probably know there was an Ubuntu Friendly sprint last week, and a big push was done towards having all the Ubuntu Friendly components ready
<roadmr> Ara kept a detailed log of work done for the UF sprint on her blog, here's the link if you want to have a look:
<roadmr> [LINK] http://arapulido.com/
<roadmr> the blog includes mockups from the website, and the ones shown there are pretty close to what the actual website looks / will look like, so if you'd like to comment, either here or on the mailing list, we'd really appreciate it.
<akgraner> o/
<roadmr> akgraner, go!
<akgraner> I like it!  It even makes sense to me  --and the mobile stuff +1
<akgraner> and once I can play around on the site even better...
<akgraner> ...
<roadmr> thanks! it's not just mockups, an actual working version of the website is in the works and it looks great, we'll announce on the mailing list when it's available for playing with.
<akgraner> thank you!
<akgraner> ...
<roadmr> well, a lot of UF memberd pitched in, so it's been great teamwork on this.
<roadmr> So if there are no further comments on this topic (but please remember that we welcome all feedback on the mailing list as well, if you need more time to look at things), let's move on...
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Global Jam and Ubuntu Friendly
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Global Jam and Ubuntu Friendly
<roadmr> As I understand it the UGJ was this weekend, and I remember there were going to be some talks about UF. I thought it'd be good to hear something about that here, if anyone can comment on it.
<akgraner> o/
<roadmr> akgraner: go ahead!
<akgraner> The new system testing failed on Oneiric in 3d - so I fell back to Natty and ara's blog posts
<akgraner> the LUG group I presented it to was really excited and they are looking forward to giving you all feedback
<akgraner> I will be blogging about it all later today after App Dev Week Day one has ended - but over all the comments were good
<akgraner> and people are looking forward to participating
<akgraner> ...
<roadmr> Awesome, thanks! Looking forward to reading the blog entry on that!
<akgraner> I'll drop the link in here and the mailing list as well
<akgraner> ...
<akgraner> I meant -quality
<akgraner> ..
<roadmr> thanks, much appreciated!
<roadmr> anyone else on UGJ? questions for akgraner maybe?
<roadmr> ok then, thanks so much for the report akgraner. And apologies on the trouble with system testing on Oneiric, which is actually next topic on the agenda today...
<roadmr> [TOPIC] System testing on Oneiric Beta 1 and beyond
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: System testing on Oneiric Beta 1 and beyond
<roadmr> First, we have some reports that checkbox (system testing) fails to start on Oneiric, we're tracking down the causes and will have a fix in a bit.
<victorp> o/
<roadmr> Also, the actual list of tests that will be done as part of Ubuntu Friendly will be in checkbox 0.12.5, I thought this was supposed to ship with Beta 1 but I have reports that b1 still has version 0.12.4.
<roadmr>  I'll announce in the mailing list when 0.12.5 is available as an update, as we would really appreciate feedback on the tests that run by default.
<IdleOne> o/
<roadmr> victorp, go ahead
<victorp> 12.0.5 intalls when you do update
<victorp> so
<victorp> I have installed
<victorp> b1 and works fine if you do not update
<victorp> as soon as you install updates system testing stops working
<victorp> as reported by akgraner
<victorp> I wonder if it is a problem with 12.0.5
<victorp> anyhow, once this is fixed
<victorp> we really need people to submit their systems
<victorp> so we can test the website with real data
<victorp> maybe we can send an email when it is fixed and with instructions to update to the latest version
<victorp> ..
<roadmr> thanks for the info, will be helpful in pinpointing the cause of the problem!
<roadmr> yes, we'll try to get this fixed and published ASAP
<akgraner> o/
<roadmr> #action checkbox developers to email when system testing problem is fixed with instructions on how to get the fix running
<meetingology> ACTION: checkbox developers to email when system testing problem is fixed with instructions on how to get the fix running
<roadmr> IdleOne: go ahead!
<IdleOne> sorry was going to say I am testing checkbox-cli and it seems to be working but it isn't for me.
<IdleOne> so, no good news.
<IdleOne> ..
<roadmr> IdleOne: yep, it's only with the gtk interface.
<roadmr> If you're interested in following progress solving this, look at this launchpad bug
<roadmr> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/839675
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 839675 in checkbox "Gdk.color_parse error in oneiric" [Critical,Confirmed]
<IdleOne> -gtk won't even start, thanks for the link.
<roadmr> akgraner: go ahead!
<akgraner> one I should have checked and tested my system earlier on Friday before my presentation, but also is there a list of who to ping during a milestone over a weekend when things go wrong?
<akgraner> asking the community to test then not knowing who to ping during the milestone is/was frustrating a little
<akgraner> ...
<roadmr> akgraner, well that would be useful to have, some of us may be hanging around during the weekend and may be able to help. We'll see if it's possible to create such a list.
<victorp> o/
<akgraner> thank you - not all weekends just during major milestones :-)
<akgraner> ...
<roadmr> victorp: go ahead!
<victorp> should akgraner not just email uf control?
<roadmr> yep exactly what I was going to say (not poaching victorp's idea, honest!)
<victorp> hehe
<victorp> ..
<roadmr> akgraner: if there's trouble with system testing you can always email ubuntu-friendly mailing list, it's very closely monitored by checkbox developers too
<akgraner> noted - and will do thanks
<akgraner> ..
<roadmr> we could also potentially report showstopper bugs in checkbox to the mailing list, but I'd hesitate to do that as it will be a lot of technobabble
<roadmr> so maybe a quick heads-up on the mailing list when checkbox has serious trouble would be worth it, all interested parties keep their eye on the list.
<roadmr> any more comments on system testing on Oneiric?
<roadmr> ok then, let's move on to...
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business
<roadmr> got something to share with the Ubuntu Friendly community? now's the chance!
<roadmr> nothing? :)
<roadmr> well then, let's wrap up. Don't forget that you can always speak up on the next meeting, or on the ubuntu-friendly mailing list. We like to get feedback!
<roadmr> thanks everyone for showing up, we really appreciate your comments and participation, we'll get working on the agreed actions, see you next time!
<roadmr> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep  5 15:41:01 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-05-15.01.moin.txt
<akgraner> roadmr, thank you! great meeting
<roadmr> akgraner: thanks ! yep, we had some interesting stuff to discuss
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-06
<Andy80> is the meeting starting in minutes or I'm too late/early?
<Andy80> omg... it was PM -.-
<Andy80> damn method of using AM/PM!
<Andy80> -.-
<zul> hi
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> he all
<jamespage> or even hi all
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<RoAkSoAx> morning all
<RoAkSoAx> so ready to get this started
<SpamapS> don't forget to tell the bot what the name of the meeting is. :)
<RoAkSoAx> ?
<RoAkSoAx> i guess we are ready then
<RoAkSoAx> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 16:02:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is RoAkSoAx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<RoAkSoAx> alright there were no actions from the previous meeting apparently
<RoAkSoAx> so unless anyone has something to brng up that has not been logged
<RoAkSoAx> please do so
<RoAkSoAx> Ok, I guess there's no action
<RoAkSoAx> let's move on
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Oneiric Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Oneiric Development
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: is in a meeting at the moment
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: so we can come back to this later
<SpamapS> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<RoAkSoAx> [link] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<RoAkSoAx> anywas, he said
 * Daviey pokes in.. Don't forget to progress bugs..  The 'Status' Step is starting to increase.
<RoAkSoAx> he tol me* to remind you all to set the status of your current blueprints
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html <-- bugs not here, please raise them double quick if they should be fixed for Oneiric
<RoAkSoAx> alright
 * Daviey gets back to his call
<Daviey> sorry for the fly by.
<RoAkSoAx> alright then, let's move on
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<RoAkSoAx> any events that anyone is participating in?
<zul> ODS next month
<RoAkSoAx> I think Linux Plumbers  is tomorrow isn't it?
<SpamapS> Yeah we'll have a ton of people at ODS
<RoAkSoAx> alright then
<RoAkSoAx> moving on
<SpamapS> Yes Plumbers starts tomorrow, I think kirkland is there.
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh: the floor is yours
<hggdh> No news from me, life is goodf
<hggdh> ..
<RoAkSoAx> alright
<RoAkSoAx> moving on
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<RoAkSoAx> smb all yours
<RoAkSoAx> uhmm seems smb is not around
<RoAkSoAx> we'll move on and get back to him
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<RoAkSoAx> NCommander howdy, any updates on ARM side?
<ogra_> RoAkSoAx, he is on vacation this week
<RoAkSoAx> ogra_: I see, is there anyone from the ARM team with news?
<ogra_> i havent gotten any info from NCommander, sorry
<ogra_> and i dont think anyone else has
<RoAkSoAx> alright then
<RoAkSoAx> I'll move on
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<RoAkSoAx> anyone from the Ubuntu Community has anything to share with us this week?
<RoAkSoAx> ok so It seems noone is around either
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<RoAkSoAx> Anyone else has something to add?
<RoAkSoAx> oh well I guess this was a short meeting then
<RoAkSoAx> if noone has anything to add
<RoAkSoAx> and smb is not back yet
<RoAkSoAx> then we can end this
<RoAkSoAx> [topic] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<RoAkSoAx> same time/date
<RoAkSoAx> thank you all for attending
<RoAkSoAx> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 16:18:53 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-16.02.moin.txt
 * kirkland waves at SpamapS from plumbers :-)
<zul> geez i think that beat my record
<RoAkSoAx> lol
 * SpamapS waves back from 600 miles south.
<chilicuil> hi there, not sure if this would fall in the topic, but last week launched the ugj and at least in my area it seemed a bit isolated, this was our first ugj and althought we got a fantastic time, I expected more Ubuntu juice, I mean, for example a central point to see what was going on, on others parts of the world, maybe some remote cameras =P or a main irc channel, anyway I just wanted to let it know
<hggdh> chilicuil: the beast place to comment about the UGJ is the #ubuntu-community channel -- there you can be sure that the folks working on the UGJ will read it
<chilicuil> hggdh: nice, I'll let them know, thanks!
<hggdh> chilicuil: you are welcome
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 16:59:15 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> bjf: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 16:59:24 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-16.59.moin.txt
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 17:00:17 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> a new omap4 kernel has been pushed out (with the i/o scheduler bug fixed)
<tgardner> need to upload the meta package yet
<ppisati> a  new round of new kernels for every arm flavour is on the way out
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> === Release Metrics ===
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 37 linux kernel bugs (up 17)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu ubuntu-11.10-beta-2 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 15 natty linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 172 oneiric bugs (up 22)
<ogasawara>  * 1585 natty bugs (up 19)
<ogasawara>  * 1084 maverick bugs (down 5)
<ogasawara>  * 958 lucid bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 32 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 15 natty bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 75 lucid bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 6 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 435 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 238 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 213 lucid bugs (down 3)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 3 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Milstone Targeted Work Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milstone Targeted Work Items
<bjf> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/milestones.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || other-kernel-o-bug-handling         || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> ||           || desktop-o-xorg-tools-and-processes  || 3 work items||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen || other-kernel-o-config-review        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || other-kernel-o-config-review        || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || sarvatt   || desktop-o-xorg-tools-and-processes  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || other-kernel-o-server-requirements  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the table above, please review your Beta 2 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Following the Beta-1 release last Thurs, we uploaded the 3.0.0-10.16 Ubuntu kernel on Fri.  I would like to remind everyone that Kernel Freeze is next week Thurs Sept 15.  After that, all patches are subject to our SRU policy in order to be applied.  I'm planning on 2 more uploads prior to kernel freeze, one at the end of this week, and one early next week.
<ogasawara> Some important upcoming dates to keep in mind are as follows:
<ogasawara>  * Sept 15 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 22 - Beta 2 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Oct 13 - Final Release (~5 weeks)
<ogasawara> I'd also like to note that the P-series git repo was recently rebased to v3.1-rc5.  It's available at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-p.git master-next .
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw> || Package                                  || Open ||
<apw> ||                                          ||      ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    9 ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    5 ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    5 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    6 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    6 ||
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (herton)
<herton> Status: Stable Kernel Team
<herton> Lucid and Maverick were respun last week, with two unverified fixes
<herton> reverted. They are now in testing phase.
<herton> Hardy is released and waiting for next update cycle.
<herton> Natty was prepared and a new version is on -proposed now. It's waiting
<herton> on verification of SRU patches.
<herton> In addition to that, we prepared and uploaded new updates for kernels in
<herton> topic branches and backport packages (natty/linux-ti-omap4,
<herton> linux-lts-backport-natty, linux-ec2, linux-fsl-imx51,
<herton> linux-lts-backport-maverick, lucid/linux-mvl-dove,
<herton> maverick/linux-ti-omap4)
<herton> This is the general status on master kernels:
<herton>  
<herton> Hardy
<herton>  
<herton> Released
<herton>  
<herton> Lucid
<herton>  
<herton> * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/836914|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<herton> * Lucid kernel is on testing phase right now: security-sigoff is
<herton>   complete, QA and certification testing are in progress.
<herton>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836914 in Kernel SRU Workflow regression-testing "linux: 2.6.32-34.76 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<herton> Maverick
<herton>  
<herton> * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/837449|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<herton> * Maverick kernel is on testing phase right now: security-signoff is
<herton> * complete, QA is waiting to be started, certification testing is in
<herton>   progress.
<herton>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837449 in Kernel SRU Workflow certification-testing "linux: 2.6.35-30.59 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<herton> Natty
<herton>  
<herton> * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/836903|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<herton> * Natty is on verification phase
<herton>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836903 in Kernel SRU Workflow verification-testing "linux: 2.6.38-11.49 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<herton> Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<herton> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 17:09:25 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks bjf
<cking> nice one
<apw> bjf thanks
<pgraner> thanks bjf
<czajkowski> 3 mins to meeting
<czajkowski> drubin: highvoltage popey ogra_ meeting in 2 mins
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<ogra_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 19:59:48 2011 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ogra_> hey everyone
<popey> o/
<drubin> hey
<Cheri703> hello
<ogra_> do we have quorum ?
<rafaellaguna> hello
<andyrock> hi
<czajkowski> aloha
 * ogra_ counts four board members
<drubin> and a highvoltage ?
<czajkowski> 4/7 so yeah
 * ogra_ hasnt seen a highvoltage in here yet ... 
<ogra_> *poke*
<highvoltage> boo
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> great, lets start
<czajkowski> stgraber: ping
 * jono is here to support tonytiger
<jono> will keep an eye for when he is up
<ogra_> first up is andyrock
<tonytiger> jono: :)
<stgraber> czajkowski: giving an Ubuntu App Developer Week talk. I should be able to vote if you really need me to
<ogra_> andyrock, like to introduce yourself ?
<andyrock> Hi All
<andyrock> My name is Andrea Azzarone
<czajkowski> andyrock: aloha there
<andyrock> I'm an italian student living in south of Italy
<czajkowski> andyrock: impressive wiki page!
<ogra_> yeah
<popey> indeed
<ogra_> very impressive list of tasks
<ogra_> and great testimonials
<andyrock> in the past year I contribute to Unity
<popey> andyrock: what made you decide to work on unity?
<andyrock> first as a bitesize hackers and then as an backlog one
<andyrock> popey, well there are more reasons
<andyrock> the first one: 1) unity is a new project and it's need help
<highvoltage> I guess many community members would wish andyrock a +1 just for the panel icon resize thingy :)
<drubin> heeh highvoltage
<czajkowski> heh
<andyrock> 2) unity leaks some useful configuration option
<andyrock> such as icon size, device managent (currently i'm working to improve more and more it thank to JohnLea too)
<czajkowski> andyrock: are you involved much in the italian loco ? they do some amazing work ?
<jono> just my input, strong +1 for andyrock, he brought tremendous value to Ubuntu
<andyrock> well i met some italian loco members at uds in Budapest
<ogra_> any more questions for andyrock ?
<andyrock> but I really prefer to write code and you know atm developer team works mainly  on packagess
<highvoltage> not from me
<andyrock> *packages
<popey> i have no further questions
<czajkowski> andyrock: ok so, but they are a great team and I'm sure you could help in some way
<czajkowski> no further questions from me
<ogra_> czajkowski, dont drag him away from fixing all these awful bugs :P :)
<andyrock> czajkowski, i know...
<czajkowski> just saying locos could benefit :)  we have UGJs :)
<ogra_> k, lets vote :)
<jono> I think andyrock should also focus on the bugs too :-)
<jono> such awesome help
<drubin> are we using the bot?
<ogra_> oh, i forgot to set the topic, one sec
<ogra_> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: andyrock
<ogra_> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<highvoltage> +1 [ great upstream contributions to unity, compiz and bug fixing in Ubuntu, greate testimonials from well-known Ubuntu people ]
<ogra_> +1
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> +1
<popey> awesome work!
<drubin> +1
<highvoltage> andyrock: congratulations and welcome!
<jono> congrats andyrock!
<ogra_> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<czajkowski> andyrock: well done
<popey> you didnt give the vote a name
<andyrock> Thx all :)
<popey> so it didnt count them up
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> well, in any case, welcome andyrock
<popey> congratulations andyrock !
<andyrock> thx again
<Andy80> andyrock: congratulations :)
<ogra_> hey tonytiger
<popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
<micahg> ogra_: possibly since you didn't give the vote a title
<tonytiger> ogra_: hi
<ogra_> micahg, yep
<ogra_> #topic tonytiger
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: tonytiger
<ogra_> tonytiger, stage is yours :)
<tonytiger> ogra_: thanks :)
<tonytiger> Hi, I'm Tony and this is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tonywhitmore
<czajkowski> tonytiger: floor is yours :)
<tonytiger> I've just added to it, so if you already had it open, please F5 :)
<tonytiger> It seems a long time ago that we were stood in a tiny crowded booth in London, representing the still-relatively new Ubuntu http://gallery.tonywhitmore.co.uk/v/linuxexpo_oct_2006/img_0874.jpg.html
<highvoltage> tonytiger: nice introduction on your wiki page :)
<tonytiger> I've been involved in advocacy and general soft promotion for Ubuntu since then
 * drubin is impressed
<tonytiger> Although I am not a developer, (comedy bash scripts aside) I contribute in areas where I am skilled: Video, audio, photo.
<czajkowski> that;s one scarey photo popey
 * ogra_ guesses many of us that were at the UDSes remember you 
<tonytiger> ogra_: I forced people into cupboards to talk into my video camera :)
<highvoltage> comedy bash scripts? is that almost like package poetry?
<ogra_> as the guy snaking around with his camera equipment, secretly kidnapping developers out of meeting rooms :)
<jono> I just want to offer my support of tonytiger too
<czajkowski> tonytiger: you do have a skill at getting people to talk.
<tonytiger> Until the AV demands of UDS became too complex for just one man and one camera :)
<jono> ogra_, lol
<tonytiger> jono: thanks
<jono> tonytiger, np
<Pendulum> also here supporting tonytiger :)
 * MooDoo three
 * highvoltage has no questions
<ogra_> any more questions ?
<tonytiger> highvoltage: My most recent comedy bash script http://darcs.tonywhitmore.co.uk/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=cartwall;a=summary
<popey> ogra_: ya
<czajkowski> it's safe to say tonytiger has a lot of support here today which is great to see
<popey> tonytiger: in what way would you like to get more involved in the LoCo ?
<popey> anything specific?
<tonytiger> Well, mostly in-person meet-ups
<tonytiger> I'm not that near to London, but if the Ubuntu UK Happy Hour comes my way...
<popey> drinks are on you, of course, I understand
<tonytiger> popey: that depends how the vote goes. ;)
<tonytiger> But I'm always up for face-to-face meet ups or events
<drubin> hey bribery will not be tollerated :)
 * drubin is ready to vote
<ogra_> post bribery is allowed
<tonytiger> :)
 * ogra_ is the chair today, i allow it :)
<ogra_> lets vote then :)
 * drubin sits on ogra_
<ogra_> #vote on tonytiger
<meetingology> Please vote on: on tonytiger
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<highvoltage> +1 [ Great community participation, UDS interviews, really good testimonials from well-known Ubuntu community members ]
<meetingology> +1 [ Great community participation, UDS interviews, really good testimonials from well-known Ubuntu community members ] received from highvoltage
<ogra_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ogra_
<suprengr> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from suprengr
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<czajkowski> CAKE FOR ME
<popey> grrrrr
<drubin> +1 [great testimonials]
<meetingology> +1 [great testimonials] received from drubin
<popey> only loco people vote!
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<flibblesan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from flibblesan
<popey> grrrrrrr
<czajkowski> flibblesan: suprengr please stop
<ogra_> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on tonytiger
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<highvoltage> popey: loco people?
<drubin> only member can vote
<popey> loco council
<czajkowski> popey: EMEA council
<flibblesan> sorry
<czajkowski> loco is next week
<popey> oh duh
 * popey puts his wine down
<ogra_> hehe
 * czajkowski reminds popey where he is 
<ogra_> nywy, welcome tonytiger
<ogra_> !!
<tonytiger> ogra_: thanks :)
<MooDoo> yay tonytiger
<highvoltage> tonytiger: congratulations and welcome!
<tonytiger> And to naughty voters I appreciate the effort ;)
<popey> heh, what a shambles :D
<czajkowski> folks can you please just let the EMEA vote, we do appreciate the support but it just messes the vote up
<suprengr> ;)
<MooDoo> i liked how quick the vote went lol
<Andy80> you should fix the bot and specify at the beginning of the session the list of people who can vote, for example: voters[name1,name2,name3,ecc....]
<ogra_> oook ... everyone take a sip of coffee
<ogra_> because ....
<czajkowski> Andy80: it's a new bot
<ogra_> this is the middle of the meeting !
<highvoltage> MooDoo: a good application makes it easy to do fast :)
<czajkowski> takes time to get used to the new commands
<ogra_> <---- right here :)
<popey> added tonywhitmore to ~ubuntumembers
<flibblesan> I saw a tweet and assumed it was a public channel with a public vote. Sorry :(
<ogra_> and Cheri703 is up next :)
<popey> np flibblesan
<ogra_> #topic Cheri703
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Cheri703
<Cheri703> Hi! I am Cheri, I'm from Ohio
 * ogra_ hands the mic to Cheri703 
<highvoltage> Ohio!
<Cheri703> Fair warning, I am mobile and tethered, so I have a bit of lag
<czajkowski> ok again only highvoltage stgraber popey ogra_ dubin and myself are to vote
<Cheri703> Pendulum is going to paste my wiki page for me I believe
<Pendulum> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cheri703
<highvoltage> Cheri703: what's your biggest goal or wish for the Ubuntu Women project?
<Cheri703> I am active in my LoCo, a member of our 3 person council, and founder of my area's ReLoCo
<Cheri703> Well, I am hoping that I can help increase some of the visibility (so many people seem to think we are a separatist group or something) as well as doing LoCo outreach
<Cheri703> working with LoCos to be more women friendly
<Cheri703> (well, EVERYONE friendly, but including women)
<highvoltage> great
<czajkowski> Cheri703: nice to hear
<jono> good work Cheri703
<Pici> woo
<popey> great testimonials
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> any more questions ?
<Pendulum> in case anyone couldn't tell, I'm here in support of Cheri703 :)
<popey> yes
<Cheri703> :)
<maco> ditto
<highvoltage> ogra_: I'm good thanks
<popey> Cheri703: how do you plan to raise awareness of the projects you're working on?
<czajkowski> Cheri703: how do you think the ubuntu community can do better to encourage more women to take part ?
<charlie-tca> I am also in support of Cheri703
 * highvoltage is supporting Cheri703 too, met her at UDS and as a newcommer to Ubuntu she wasn't afraid to just jump in and get involved
<Cheri703> popey: when interacting/discussing projects with people, I try to mention how they can tie into other projects, and how certain aspects of the community or even development can benefit the others
<Cheri703> (i.e. x can benefit accessibility too! or y is part of what can help with making things more inclusive)
<Cheri703> that was to popey
<popey> cross-pollenation âº
<Cheri703> czajkowski: I think that a lot of it is cultural
<Cheri703> there are a lot of things that seem ingrained in "this is how it's always been done"
<charlie-tca> Cheri703 is very ambitious with a lot of needed enthusiasm and energy
<Cheri703> and that  it can help to open people up to the idea of slight tweaks that will make it easier/more open to others
<czajkowski> Cheri703: that is true
<czajkowski> I've no more questions
<popey> ditto
<Cheri703> it doesn't have to be MASSIVE change, just little adjustments :)
<ogra_> awesome, so shall we vote ?
 * highvoltage thinks it's just natural that there will be "guarded monkeys" in community projects where there is a big flow of people
<ogra_> any ONLY BOARD MEMBERS VOTE !!!
<czajkowski> hehe
<highvoltage> (but it is something that people should be aware of)
<ogra_> #vote on Cheri703
<meetingology> Please vote on: on Cheri703
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> ogra_: now you know how I feel each month :)
<highvoltage> +1 [ Great Ubuntu community participation and outreach and excellent feedback from well-known Ubuntu members ]
<meetingology> +1 [ Great Ubuntu community participation and outreach and excellent feedback from well-known Ubuntu members ] received from highvoltage
<ogra_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ogra_
<drubin> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from drubin
<czajkowski> +1 great wiki and well done
<meetingology> +1 great wiki and well done received from czajkowski
<popey> +!
<ogra_> heh
<popey> bah
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
 * czajkowski hands popey a large cup of coffee
<maco> highvoltage: guarded monkeys?
<highvoltage> Cheri703: congratulations and welcome :)
<Pendulum> popey: still not off holiday brain?
<Cheri703> thanks!
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, Cheri703. You earned it.
<ogra_> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on Cheri703
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
 * nigelb hands popey and unshift key
<pleia2> congrats Cheri703 :) much deserved
<Cheri703> :D
<nigelb> congrats Cheri703!
<Pendulum> Cheri703: congrats!
<ogra_> congrats Cheri703
<czajkowski> Cheri703: wel done and welcome
<highvoltage> maco: oops, gorillas, even. See: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/11/guarded-gorilla.html
<Cheri703> thanks!
<ogra_> now on to the most beautiful designed wikipage today :)
<nigelb> 41
<nigelb> gah
<ogra_> rafaellaguna, you're next :)
<ogra_> #topic rafaellaguna
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rafaellaguna
 * popey adds cheri703 to ~ubuntumembers
<rafaellaguna> ogra: he he
<ogra_> rafaellaguna, mind to introduce yourself ?
<rafaellaguna> Ok. My name's Rafael Laguna, from Spain. I'm a designer and live in Valencia (east coast)
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: your wiki page mentions upstream art contributions to LibreOffice, KDEnlive and the Gimp. Do you have examples of your contributions there?
<rafaellaguna> Those programs were used to explain how Ubuntu works in some schools
<popey> rafaellaguna: of the themes you've created for Lubuntu, do any of them ship on the CD?
<head_victim> popey: he's created several of the default ones
<rafaellaguna> The intention was showing that not everything is pay software, that there're alternatives in price and, more important, with community support
 * head_victim is here to cheer
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: what do you give schools when they wand a disc? Lubuntu or Edubuntu? :)
<rafaellaguna> popey: they are all included (until Oneiric, finishing) in the ISOs, as the community voted it
<popey> rafaellaguna: excellent work!
<rafaellaguna> highvoltage: Ubuntu was the choice
<ogra_> rafaellaguna is the make up artist of lubuntu :)
<rafaellaguna> And I must say they adapted so well to that "serious" interface
<highvoltage> heh
<rafaellaguna> ogra_: :)
<ogra_> any more questions to rafaellaguna ?
<highvoltage> Not from me.
<ogra_> nobody else speaks up, so lets vote
<ogra_> #vote on rafaellaguna
<meetingology> Please vote on: on rafaellaguna
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<highvoltage> +1 [ Great artwork contributionsin Lubuntu, advocacy in schools and great testimonials from Lubuntu contributors ]
<meetingology> +1 [ Great artwork contributionsin Lubuntu, advocacy in schools and great testimonials from Lubuntu contributors ] received from highvoltage
<drubin> +1 [Sustained work and good testimonials ]
<meetingology> +1 [Sustained work and good testimonials ] received from drubin
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<ogra_> +1 driving artwork for a distro alone is nearly a fulltime job
<meetingology> +1 driving artwork for a distro alone is nearly a fulltime job received from ogra_
<ogra_> czajkowski, *poke*
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<ogra_> #ednvote
<czajkowski> blame compiz!!!!
<ogra_> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on rafaellaguna
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: congratulations and welcome!
<ogra_> congrats rafaellaguna !!
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: this is the second time you have applied right?
<Unit193> rafaellaguna: Well done! Glad you made it!
 * ogra_ points czajkowski to andyrock 
<head_victim> rafaellaguna: Well done
<rafaellaguna> highvoltage: yep, 2nd one :)
<czajkowski> heh
<rafaellaguna> Unit193: thanks
<popey> rafaellaguna: added to ~ubuntumembers
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: great, glad that you applied again!
<drubin> Congrats!
<rafaellaguna> thank you all
<drubin> and yes glad you applied :)
<rafaellaguna> i'm happy :)
<ogra_> sooo, seems that was it for today ...
<drubin> wow that is a record!
<drubin> thanks ogra_ for chairing!
<highvoltage> thanks everyone
<ogra_> thanks everyone for attending !
<popey> nice one ogra_
<tonytiger> Thanks everyone!
<ogra_> and thanks for cheering everyone
<highvoltage> and to ogra_ for chairing, I never thought I'd see that :p
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 20:40:51 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-19.59.moin.txt
<ogra_> et voila :)
<highvoltage> RIP mootbot.
<drubin> wow that sumerary is awesome
<andyrock> my vote is not prenset :)
<andyrock> in the Vote section
<popey> blame ogra
<ogra_> yeah, i messed that up, sorry for that
<popey> :D
<highvoltage> andyrock: it's ok, it's recorded anyway
<andyrock> np
<andyrock> thx anyway
<ogra_> popey, thanks for driving LP
<popey> np
<jono> hey dholbach
<jono> meeting in 3m
<dholbach> yep
<dholbach> pleia2, technoviking, popey, persia: all set?
 * pleia2 waves
<dholbach> jono, did you link to your .pdf already?
<jono> http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
<jono> :-)
<dholbach> great
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 21:00:33 2011 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> [LINK] http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
<pleia2> oh
<pleia2> #link http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
<pleia2> I don't know how this new bot works :)
<jono> :-)
<jono> so do we want to review the findings in the doc?
<pleia2> sounds good, I read through it earlier
<jono> cool
 * dholbach too
<jono> I summarized the key themes on the last page
<pleia2> #topic Membership Survey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Membership Survey
<jono> I think these are interesting areas of focus and discussion
<pleia2> this is the Community Council meeting btw :)
<pleia2> jono: thanks so much for working on this, it was a very good report
<jono> yup
<jono> thanks pleia2
<jono> I think it is interesting to see the feedback
<jono> I am pleased that generally the feedback was very positive about the membership process
<mako> ciao
<jono> hey mako
<jono> mako, we are looking at the membership survey report
<jono> http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
<jono> the key resonating piece of confusion seemed to be about expectations about what constitutes membership
<jono> I was wondering if we could look at the areas of participation in the survey and provides examples for the most popular areas
<pleia2> page 5?
<jono> pleia2, exactly
<pleia2> jono: and did this go to developer membership board folks too, or just from the regional boards?
<jono> maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership could provide subpages with examples of such contributions
<jono> pleia2, I blogged it
<jono> ohj sorry
<jono> I see what you mean
<dholbach> in addition to that I think it might be interesting to review together with RMBs/DMB the cases that didn't seem to fit in and see where we can be clearer or amend expectations
<jono> pleia2, I asked Jorge to provide a list of all names that have been through the membership process, I think it was mainly regional boards
<jono> dholbach, agreed
<jono> it seems though the expectations issue likely is where is particularly applies to DMB applications
<highvoltage> jono: I read it this morning, it was nice to see the possitive feedback!
<jono> e.g. upstream contributions
<jono> highvoltage, :-)
<jono> maybe we could ask the various membership boards to flesh out examples of what is considered good work in each of those areas
<jono> e.g. locos, translations, docs, packaging, upstream contributions etc
<pleia2> I also noticed that some people felt technical things weren't valued as highly as community, and I think that is because in some cases people went to the wrong board (regional when they're doing packaging work, for instance)
<pleia2> and there was general confusion about which board to go to
<jono> pleia2, right
 * micahg wonders why people aren't warned about this before the meeting in question
<jono> micahg, warned about what?
<micahg> applying for the wrong board
<dholbach> I think I recall a similar discussion some months ago - if I remember correctly the outcome was something like "all membership boards should be able to make a good decision or ask other people for advice"
<jono> ahhh I see
<pleia2> micahg: it's very common for wiki pages to be incomplete so the board depends upon the meeting conversation to get more details about where their involvement is, short answer: we don't know before the meeting
<micahg> pleia2: ah, ok
<highvoltage> indeed, RMB can do technical applicants as well. packaging-only contributors are a bit special though and it would probably be more fair to them to apply via the DMB.
<dholbach> what we should stress in the documentation in any case is to explain the relevance of your work for Ubuntu
<jono> so would you folks be happy to participate in us listing common areas of work (e.g. locos, docs, translations) and for each area list examples of what is considered good work
<jono> I think this could help better communicate what is considered good work
<pleia2> sounds good, should probably put these examples on a separate wiki page though, /Membership is getting a bit long :)
<pleia2> (it's also worth noting that we've improved /Membership *a lot* in the past two years to address some of the concerns raised in the survey)
<jono> agreed
<jono> awesome
<dholbach> that would help in many cases, I guess - I'm wondering how prone this approach would be to leaving out other kinds of activity
 * micahg would also suggest making it clear these are examples and not checklists
<pleia2> micahg: agreed
<highvoltage> and the issue of upstream contributions have also been cleared up heavily since the survey
<jono> ok, I will take an action to set up the pages and then mail the RMBs for input
<jono> maybe then the CC can review this content?
<dholbach> sure, I'm happy to help with that
<pleia2> jono: sounds good
<jono> how do I register an action again?
<jono> I am so useless with bots
<jono> lol
<pleia2> #action jono to set up the pages and then mail the RMBs for input
<meetingology> ACTION: jono to set up the pages and then mail the RMBs for input
<DarkwingDuck> I think if we take the areas that each regional board looks at and lists those, then we wont be leaving anything out... Or, it will limit it.
<popey> sorry I'm late
<jono> awesome
<dholbach> hey popey
<jono> popey, fired
<jono> lol
<popey> wooot
<mako> so, there's one very clear way we can address issues of expectations before meetings
<jono> mako, oh?
<mako> which is to actively encourage members leaving testimonials to give concrete feedback on the completeness of an applicdation
<mako> presumably, every person who has been through this process has some idea of what is expected
<mako> and they are all actually looking at the page in question
<mako> we can change the documentation to suggest that member candidates ask people they ask for testimonials for advice in the process
<dholbach> good thinking
<jono> that makes sense
<mako> or to even require that testimonials only be left on applications that members feel are complete enough to have a chance of passing! (although that might be heavy handed)
<mako> there are a few ways that we can rephrase core parts of the process documents to encourage more feedback from the members who are already involved in the process before even the very incomplete applicdations make it to the meetings
<jono> I think this makes great sense
<jono> popey, pleia2 thoughts?
<mako> i've also tended to think of large majority of rejections/come-back-laters as failures in documentation or communication on our part
<popey> I have nothing to add
<pleia2> I think it would be tricky to make this happen, people are busy and writing a testimonial at all takes time without also committing to doing a review of the application
<pleia2> we can certainly encourage it though
<popey> however I do think the whole membership thing is opaque to many
<pleia2> (I offer suggestions on apps pretty frequently)
<jono> so maybe we should add it to the docs as a form of encouragement
<jono> popey, really?
<popey> I announced on G+ that Tony was now a member and one reply was "what did he use before?"
<popey> but thats from people outside the community
<jono> popey, that is understandable outside of Ubuntu
<popey> not understanding what membership means to people in the community
<popey> I still think there's room for a 30 second elevator pitch at the top of the membership page as to what membership actually means
<popey> !membership
<ubottu> Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<jono> mako could you add that clarification to the docs to encourage reviewing apps from testimonials
<popey> tl;dr
<jono> popey, makes sense
<popey> but thats a minor point :D
<mako> i think that the fact that 17% of the people who end up being members either apply with incomplete information or two early is a concrete number we work to reduce
<jono> popey,  could you write that and add it to the page
<popey> i could try
<jono> popey, cool
<mako> i think we if we improve the relevant documentations, we can cut this is half
<popey> action me!
<mako> jono: sure, i'm happy to help with that :)
<jono> thanks mako
<pleia2> #action mako to add clarification to docs to encourage reviewing apps from testimonials
<meetingology> ACTION: mako to add clarification to docs to encourage reviewing apps from testimonials
<jono> #action popey add elevator pitch to Membership page summarizing the purpose and function of membership
<meetingology> ACTION: popey add elevator pitch to Membership page summarizing the purpose and function of membership
<pleia2> it's also worth noting that the membership boards have a mailing list that people can email to ask us about membership if they have any questions
<pleia2> I think people don't know about it, or they're shy to ask, or don't know they can ask
<jono> indeed
<jono> is that clear to people who apply?
<dholbach> if that's not in the docs, we should add it, or maybe make it more prominent :)
<jono> would you be happy to do that dholbach?
<pleia2> the bottom of each regional page has "If you have questions or wish to give private testimonials email ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com (your message may initially be held for moderation)"
<jono> ensure the list is seen as a prominent for of support?
<jono> in the docs
<dholbach> pleia2, that should be good enough :)
<jono> oh cool
<pleia2> but it's not on /Membership and doesn't exactly scream "we can help you out!"
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> I'll take care of it
<jono> thanks dholbach
<jono> #action dholbach raise awareness of the list as a place for support
<meetingology> ACTION: dholbach raise awareness of the list as a place for support
<jono> so I would like to discuss the meetings feedback
<jono> there were two primary areas of concern here - the timliness of getting to applications and quorum
<jono> maybe lets look at timeliness first
<jono> is there a limit on how apps happen in each meeting?
<popey> not for EMEA
<pleia2> EMEA and Americas do fine with quorum, and the CC just added 3 additoinal members to Asia Pacific so hopefully that won't be an issue moving forward (I'm working with APAC on this as I can)
<jono> pleia2, awesome
<popey> I dont see a breakdown on which board has timeliness issues?
<pleia2> not for Americas either, we don't have a problem getting through our list
<jono> popey, it was general feedback
<jono> no specific board was highlighted
<dholbach> how do you feel about having meetings regardless of quorum or not and chasing up additional votes by email afterwards?
<jono> dholbach, +1
<pleia2> dholbach: yeah, I think we need to take that into consideration
<popey> its rarely been an issue for EMEA
<jono> I think the idea of folks showing up for approval and meeting doesn't go ahead because of quorum is not good
<highvoltage> jono: now and again EMEA runs a bit late, which usually steps into CC meeting space, but so far CC has never complained about it and when it has run late it hasn't been by more than 15 minutes or so
<popey> but I'd be happy to do that
<popey> but the problem with it is it puts people on hold
<pleia2> the trouble with Asia Pacific is that it's such a huge area (almost half the world!)
<pleia2> so getting quorum at a specific time is tricky
<dholbach> popey, meetings without quorum put them on hold as well :-P
<jono> popey, it does, but canceling meetings because of lack of quorum puts an application in limbo
<popey> turning up to meetings people have an expectation set that they'll find out immediately
<popey> i disagree
<jono> at least if we move to mail the application can continue
<popey> lack of quorum and no meeting are similar state, the person didnt get to have their say
<jono> popey, I disagree:
<popey> but to have the meeting and then say "you'll have to wait for your answer" is different
<jono> if a person shows up and no quorum - there is no meeting and nothing happens
<dholbach> I personally would welcome a "let's talk about it now and we'll get back to you with a decision" as I had a chance to reply to questions as opposed to being told "come back in two weeks"
<pleia2> dholbach: +1
<dholbach> but maybe that's just me
<dholbach> ...and pleia2
<jono> if we change it where there is no quorum and the present members vote and the remaining votes are offered over email, the applicant can be informed that the app is still being processed
<jono> dholbach, +1
<popey> which was my point, it puts people on hod
<pleia2> people sometimes bring along their peers on ubuntu projects to cheer for them, it's very discouraging when you bring people along and no meeting happens, at least they could introduce themselves and get their cheers in
<popey> *hold
<Laney> FYI we did that with the last DMB meeting and it was a right pain to chase people to vote
<jono> popey, but they are not on hold, it is just continuing as opposed to them showing up to a meeting for it to be  a waste of time
<popey> at least via email the people who complete the quourm can see the log of people turning up and cheering I suppose
<jono> Laney, interesting
<popey> we're splitting hairs
<micahg> well, given that pleia2 said some applicants don't have complete applications, it's hard to know in advance what questions need to be asked even if one can't be present, perhaps a requirement that an application must be complete to be processed w/out quorum (as a followup)
<Laney> which is why we moved away from email stuff in the first place
<jono> ok so the other option is that we always strive maintain quoum
<stgraber> Laney: +1 (and thanks again for handling it ;))
<jono> additional board members could solve that
<popey> we dont exactly have people falling out of the sky to be on boards
<jono> popey, do you have another idea in which we can secure a quorum?
<pleia2> asia pacific hasn't had a meeting since we added the new members, and they were the only board really having problems
<popey> yes, get people from other boards
<pleia2> I think we should see how things go with their new members and take it from there
<popey> I have suggested this previously, and it does work
<Laney> I still think going ahead was the right decision though
<jono> popey, which boards?
<Laney> better then leaving people hanging after they've turned up
<jono> other membership boards?
<popey> yes
<jono> makes sense
<popey> I have stood in for members of US and Asia boards on more than one occasion
<popey> because I happened to be online and saw in -meeting that there was no quoum
<jono> popey, that makes sense
<popey> and subsequently (months later) people from those boards rememebr that and ping me directly
<popey> this is why we post reminders to the membership boards list
<pleia2> the CC has pretty much said this was ok
<popey> its why we have only one list
<popey> so we can say "Hey, emea meeting tomorrow" and when someone says "can't make it, we wont be quorum" we can have an opportunity (albeit at short notice) to get someone to stand in
<jono> popey, do you feel all boards are aware that this is what they should do if there is no quorum?
<popey> I think they're aware that its possible
<popey> i dont think they believe it's policy
<popey> because it isnt really
<popey> its members of a board doing a favour for members of another board
<pleia2> and the CC has said it's ok
<popey> informally, and on best-endeavour basis
<jono> maybe we can formalize this as a policy
<jono> should it only apply to RMBs or any governor who is equipped to approve membership
<jono> so if there is DMB member for example they could step in
<popey> tricky
<pleia2> it really should not be something that's used regularly
<jono> pleia2, agreed
<pleia2> if a board regularly has trouble getting quorum we need to address that directly (like we just have with APAC)
<jono> pleia2, agree
<popey> exactly
<jono> so maybe we should formalize as a policy and communicate to all RMBs that this used if quorum cannot be made, but should be used only when absolutely required
<pleia2> I think we'll be ok once we get asia pacific back on track, they are the board that really has struggled the most with this
<popey> but (for example) I would have no problem asking someone like jussi or laney from irc or dmb to step in if they could.
<popey> it's not like we're asking a welder to do brain surgery, I'm pretty sure we're all on roughly the same page when it comes to what's expected of a member?
<popey> however!
<jono> agreed
<popey> I don't think it works the other way round
<jono> yes
<popey> I wouldn't want to stand in on the DMB
<jono> this is a one way thing
<pleia2> yeah, I can't judge irc membership
<micahg> popey: +1
<Laney> I can't techincally add people to ~ubuntumembers though
<popey> others can tho
<jono> ok, popey would you be happy to mail all the RMBs to ensure they are aware of this workflow if quorum is not met?
<popey> we're not asking the entire dmb to step in :D
<Laney> just saying that launchpad doesn't think I have this authority
<pleia2> yeah, presumably the *whole* board wouldn't be MIA for a meeting :)
<popey> I hear Fedora have some Ambassadors, we could get them to stand in!
<popey> yes jono
<jono> thanks popey
<popey> action me up
<jono>  #action popey mail RMBs about lack of quorum workflow
<jono> #action popey mail RMBs about lack of quorum workflow
<meetingology> ACTION: popey mail RMBs about lack of quorum workflow
<head_victim> As one of the new members of AsiaOceania I'd just like to throw a quick comment that I am finding it difficult to find any documentation on policy. I know we're here to decide on membership applications but the details of how we achieve that all seem to be word of mouth and just assumed.
<Laney> like, if you want that to be possible then make dmb and irc and whatever a member of the team that makes you an admin of ubuntnumembers
<Laney> then the delegation is clear
<jono> head_victim, good point
<head_victim> Sorry to interrupt, just wanted to give a newbies view
<pleia2> head_victim: please do
<jono> we don't have a "how to review membership" wiki page, right?
<pleia2> oh, you said your thing :) thanks
<popey> not that I know of
<head_victim> I asked the mailing list as well and got no response either.
<jono> I think such a page could be useful
<jono> would someone like to volunteer to put it together?
<head_victim> Very, especially if us 3 new members all turn up and we're the only ones there.
<pleia2> head_victim: apologies, I was meaning to reply to that, I have a whole email I send to new americas members
<pleia2> jono: I have one pretty much written, I'll formalize it
<head_victim> pleia2: tis ok, I just happened to see this meeting pop up after my night shift so hung around to join in
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to publish "welcome" document for new board members with policy for approvals
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to publish "welcome" document for new board members with policy for approvals
<jono> pleia2, awesome!
<dholbach> great
<popey> win
<head_victim> Thanks everyone
<jono> I think this covers many of the key areas
<jono> maybe we should focus on these actions first
<jono> and then review in another meeting?
<dholbach> or at UDS
<jono> dholbach, good idea
<pleia2> sounds good
<dholbach> I'll add it to my TODO list to schedule such a session
<pleia2> thanks dholbach
<jono> awesome
<Laney> we should make sure this document leaves room for interpretation
<popey> +1
<jono> alright
<jono> are we done?
<pleia2> highvoltage: still about? was your "Defining what upstream contributions are in terms of membership" agenda item sufficiently discussed this past month? (I didn't want to just remove it without asking)
<pleia2> I think it was, just need to be sure we don't have loose ends that we need to take care of or document
<pleia2> aside from what we've already discussed today, of course
<highvoltage> pleia2: it was, I can't find the link to it though (been looking for it for dholbach)
<Laney> highvoltage: a summary would be nice
<geser> is this documented somewhere which upstream contribution count for Ubuntu membership?
<highvoltage> Laney: the outcome was basically that upstream contributions do count if it affect ubuntu significantly (maybe not exact workding, but that's basically it in concept)
<highvoltage> Laney: I believe the plan is to take more tricky applications on a case-by-case basis until there is more convention to document
<pleia2> since we're giving examples of work in loco teams and such that counts, I think we should add upstream as a category of contributions that we can give examples of
<dholbach> that sounds reasonable to me ... if the relevance is clearly enough described in the application (I was not part of that last meeting)
<highvoltage> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/713 gives some more background on sabdfl's view on it, which I think is reasonable
<pleia2> ok, I tihnk we can wrap up then :)
<pleia2> thanks highvoltage
<jono> thanks everyone!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 21:46:40 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-21.00.moin.txt
<popey> \o/
<mako> thanks everyone!
<dholbach> thanks everyone
<dholbach> with that I'm off to bed :)
<popey> nn
 * popey hugs dholbach 
<geser> n8 dholbach
 * dholbach hugs you all back
<highvoltage> goodnight everyone
<Laney> pfft, midnight
<Laney> slacker
<dholbach> :-P
<highvoltage> <greeting that is appropriate to your timezone />
<ScottK> highvoltage: Is the result of the upstream contributions count discussion documented anywhere?
<ScottK> I thought today's meeting (which I couldn't make) was the one where it was going to get discussed (oddly enough since it was on the agenda).
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-07
<highvoltage> ScottK: ah that was a previous one (which I couldn't attend either)
<ScottK> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/CC seems to be missing that one.
<ScottK> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ too.
<ScottK> pleia2: Where are the minutes/logs of the CC meeting where this change in membership requirements was decided?
<pleia2> ScottK: there wasn't such a meeting (and there weren't any CC meetings in August), it was mostly a discussion with the boards and general reaffirmation in blog posts by several community members that upstream counts if the intent/inspiration of the work helps ubuntu and they are working closely with others in the ubuntu community
<pleia2> that's how it always was, I think it just became a bit unclear
<ScottK> How is it reaffirmation to do something we've never done?
<pleia2> my debian work counted when I became a member in 2007
<ScottK> How many Launchpad developers got membership in Ubuntu via their work on LP?
<pleia2> I don't know
<ScottK> None.
<ScottK> The first one applying was one of the inspirations for the topic.
<pleia2> but if they're working with the community and have testimonials speaking to that then they should
<ScottK> If they are working with the Ubuntu community, sure, but not for code they write in Launchpad.
<pleia2> if you don't think the question was answered satisfactorily, can you email the CC? I can't really speak for everyone here
<ScottK> I'd like for someone to document what was decided.
<ScottK> Until that's done, there's nothing to have an opinion on.
<pleia2> I don't know there is much of a specific statement beyond mark's blog post that summed up the discussions
<ScottK> It seems very odd to have something on a CC agenda for a month and then when the next meeting rolls around have it have already been decided with no community discussion.
<ScottK> Every blog post Mark writes doesn't constitute policy for the project.
<ScottK> I'd like to know what that is.
<pleia2> there were multiple very long threads on the -devel list and several private discussions that led up to his post
<ScottK> OK.  It sounds to me like not special casing Canonical the same way Congress doesn't write tax breaks for specific companies.
<pleia2> it's really more complicated than upstream vs non-upstream, there has to be some kind of desire to work with the wider community and improve ubuntu (even if you want to improve everything else too)
<pleia2> so it's very hard to write specific rules, it's more making sure the boards keep intent in mind when they review applications
<ScottK> Kernel hackers want to improve everything.  So are they all eligible?
 * pleia2 sighs
<pleia2> this is going to turn into the same discussion that's been hashed out several times and I don't have the time for it right now, the short answer is "it depends"
<ScottK> I'd like to see a policy statement that described the "it depends".
<pleia2> does the kernel developer handle launchpad bugs in ubuntu because they see a need to improve the experience? do they work with the ubuntu kernel team?
<ScottK> I know several DDs that qualify on that basis.
<pleia2> ok, I'll write the email to the rest of the CC asking for such a statement
<ScottK> Thanks.
<barry> jelmer_: hi.  i saw poolie is not feeling well.  do we have enough people for a meeting today?
<jelmer_> barry: jam is sprinting so he probably won't be around either
<barry> jelmer_: so, let's just postpone it for 2 weeks.  we can continue to discuss on the mlist
<jelmer_> hi jacob
<jelmer_> sorry, jacob
<jelmer_> barry: ok
<barry> jelmer_: just to leave you on a high note, i *love* the new status output for branching a source branch
<jelmer_> barry: Thanks. it's all jam, though :)
<barry> :)
<highvoltage> ScottK: I think you're right, proposed changes in membership should be documented and there should be some opportunity for feedback. I'm not sure where it was discussed by the CC. I was under the impression that it was at a CC meeting, but that doesn't seem to be the case
<ScottK> highvoltage: No, it turns out it was in private.
<ScottK> I've asked the CC for some policy statement so we can at least know what they decided.
<highvoltage> ScottK: Ok, I'm not sure that any decisions have been layed in stone though. As far as I'm aware it's an ongoing process.
<ScottK> I'd like to understand where the CC is on it because my assessment of the results of their conversation are that they decided to not make any changes, but also to do the opposite of what we've done.  Hence I'd like to understand their position better.
<ScottK> Considering people who have to make such decisions (I'm one of them on Kubuntu Council) are unclear on the rule, I think the need for some kind of documentation is clear.
<highvoltage> ScottK: Indeed, I can understand why the CC would want to discuss it in private initially, but I can't find any public communication about it from the CC. Will do something about that today...
<ScottK> I already talked to one of the CC members and they said they'd write the CC list and ask for a public statement.
<ScottK> I don't think further action is needed right now.
<highvoltage> Ok, if someone is already taking care of it then that's great. I'll wait until next week then before nudging anyone.
<cjwatson> Hi folks
<bdmurray> hi
<barry> hi
 * stgraber waves
<jhunt> o/
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep  7 15:02:15 2011 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> so I believe that mvo and slangasek are on holiday and ev is at Plumbers
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt bdmurray)
<cjwatson> jhunt stgraber bdmurray doko barry cjwatson
<cjwatson> not rigged, honest
<jhunt> Fix for bug 834813 now in upstream libnih. Finishing tests for Upstart
<jhunt> job logging (written 82 new Upstart tests so far!).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834813 in libnih "nih_str_split() can return garbage array elements." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834813
<jhunt> â
<doko> argh, missed mumble
<stgraber> - This past week
<stgraber>  - Monday was a public holiday (labour day)
<stgraber>  - Spent most of last Wednesday and Thursday doing ISO testing and bug fixes for beta1
<stgraber>  - Did quite a bit of ubiquity debugging and bug fixing
<stgraber>  - Started poking at friendly recovery.
<stgraber>    - Got it running from /lib (though /usr will be required for whiptail).
<stgraber>    - Still need to add some fallback code for when /usr isn't there.
<stgraber>    - Asked James for some ideas on how to start friendly recovery really early in the boot sequence.
<stgraber>    - Between his e-mail and our mumble discussion, I have enough ideas to start poking at possible implementations.
<stgraber>  - Continued working on IPv6 testing. Got the code to generate all the VMs done, just need to work on preseeding now.
<stgraber>  - Gave a session on the ARB at the Ubuntu App Developer week
<stgraber>  - Worked on a few bugfixes for Arkose and tried to get it translated
<stgraber>  - Started setting up an iSCSI test environment for bug 838809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838809 in Ubuntu Oneiric "authenticated and unauthenicated iscsi clients fails to complete boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838809
<stgraber> - TODO
<stgraber>  - Debug that iSCSI bug
<stgraber>  - Get a new friendly-recovery released fixing bug 234409 and bug 575469 (and probably some others)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234409 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "friendly-recovery violates the Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234409
<stgraber>  - Finish implementing IPv6 testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575469 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu Oneiric) "recovery mode mounts filesystems read-write rather than read-only" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575469
<stgraber>  - TPM stuff
<stgraber> (done)
<cjwatson> stgraber: in some ways I rather liked Lennart's idea that if /usr is separate then the initramfs should deal with mounting it too; although it potentially has boot time implications
<bdmurray> bug triage of foundation's bug reports
<bdmurray> iso-testing bug review and triage
<bdmurray> usb-creator bug review and testing
<bdmurray> UDD querying for standard output apport package install failures
<bdmurray> blog post regarding using UDD when Launchpad text searches are inadequate
<bdmurray> investigation into ubiquity version tagging in the source package hook
<bdmurray> wrote a bug bot function to deal with failures running update-initramfs on LiveMedia which results in package install failures
<bdmurray> created a duplicate siganture for dkms driver failures
<bdmurray> review of dkms bug report duplicate signatures
<bdmurray> email to bug control regarding filtering bugpattern-needed mailing list bug reports
<bdmurray> review of and email to dholbach regarding Bugs/Testing progress tracking
<bdmurray> replaced power supply in desktop system
<bdmurray> hp touchsmart tm2 troubleshooting and debugging (updated BIOS to resolve boot failure)
<bdmurray> holidays (half of Thursday, all of Friday and Monday)
<bdmurray> done
<barry> bdmurray: is your blog post on voices?
<bdmurray> barry: no just on planet.ubuntu.com
<stgraber> cjwatson: yeah, I guess /usr is important enough that the initramfs should take care of mounting it, though for the recovery mode, the least file systems we depend on the better (as your /usr partition can be corrupted)
<cjwatson> stgraber: yes, true
<cjwatson> doko:
<doko> - GCC update (should be final for anything but ARM)
<doko> - NBS whole week, in need of anti-depressives now
<doko> ..
<barry> i guess that's my cue...
<barry> short week due to usa holiday.  bug 832864 (pyside ftbfs); ffe attained and uploaded new versions of apiextractor, generatorrunner, shiboken, and pyside.  sbuild hackery fun: <http://tinyurl.com/3b2uewn>.  patch pilot, bugs: 770752, 835763, 835763, 835765, 831411, 829078, bug 831411 (zope packages to dhpy2).  xorg crash diagnostics.  bug 407862 (rsyslog - still investigating, can't reproduce).  working on lts ppa for lp.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832864 in pyside (Ubuntu Oneiric) "pyside version 1.0.4-1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831411 in zope.testbrowser (Ubuntu) "[FFe] dh_python2 transition of zope packages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831411
<cjwatson> Quite a bit more work on NBS/FTBFS.
<cjwatson> Prepared transitional openssl098 package based on Debian's (but we had a non-trivial set of patches against openssl which needed to be ported, so it took a while).
<cjwatson> Uploaded a few grub2 fixes and a Debian merge (bdmurray, one of the things fixed here was bug 537123 - a Debian developer noticed a problem in the previous fix which I think accounts for something you were asking me about at the rally).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537123 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "package linux-image-2.6.31-20-generic 2.6.31-20.57 failed to install/upgrade: /etc/grub.d/README executable bit set" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537123
<cjwatson> Found a strchr bug on ARM, rather to my surprise!  (Bug 842258)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842258 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "ARM strchr fails to convert c to char" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842258
<cjwatson> Patch piloted today.
<cjwatson> Worked on bug 420080.  I think I have this almost done; still needs a little work to ensure that /etc/crypttab is written correctly.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420080 in partman-crypto (Ubuntu) "Configure encrypted volumes destroys existing data" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420080
<cjwatson> Some work on packaging OpenSSH 5.9.
<cjwatson> Got my Debian kilt :-)
<cjwatson> done
<doko> have to forward the ARM report to linaro ...
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<cjwatson> bdmurray: anything we should be paying attention to this week?
<bdmurray> I was looking at usb-creator bugs a bit as it made the 5 packages
<bdmurray> and I ran across bug 826716 which seems rather important
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 826716 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "error "uncaught exception", "no such file or directory" creating persistent usb key" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/826716
<barry> wibni the oserror included the file name?
<stgraber> I "think" I got that bug at the global jam on Sunday. Ended up just dding the ISO image to the usb stick ;)
<cjwatson> bleh, my line numbers don't match
<cjwatson> I don't get it, why would mkfs.ext3 not be there?
<cjwatson> missing /sbin in PATH maybe?
<cjwatson> I guess usb-creator could force /sbin:/usr/sbin onto the PATH
<bdmurray> oh, I've personally ran into some /sbin not in path issues
<cjwatson> that suggests a problem elsewhere; /sbin is supposed to have been on everyone's default PATH for years now
<cjwatson> at least in Ubuntu
<cjwatson> usb-creator probably ought not to assume that anyway
<cjwatson> I'm pretty tempted to blame something desktopy
<bdmurray> right this happened to me somewhat recently on an oneiric system
<cjwatson> ps auxewww plus a lot of patience can help to track down the root of such problems
<bdmurray> cjwatson: did you mean blame something desktopy for messing up PATH?
<cjwatson> yeah, because the thing that opens the PAM session is supposed to deal with this, and that's probably lightdm
<cjwatson> I can't see a problem here, but my .bashrc has been adding /sbin and /usr/sbin to PATH for a decade or so which probably masks it
<bdmurray> if I ssh to localhost PATH is properly set
<cjwatson> ssh does its own PAM handling which gets this right
<cjwatson> look for the gnome-session process and see what its PATH is
<cjwatson> (in ps auxewww)
<stgraber> The switch to lightdm broke my path at some point. Though I think that got fixed
<bdmurray> I'm using gdm on both the systems I just looked at
<cjwatson> anyway, I'll volunteer to fix usb-creator to tolerate this
<stgraber> (but at the same time my .bashrc still contains ". /etc/environment" so I wouldn't notice ;))
<cjwatson> assigned/milestoned
<bdmurray> There is also bug 818177 which seems to be missing some info from apw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu) "HP DL380G5 root disk mounted read-only on boot and boot fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<cjwatson> not volunteering for that
<bdmurray> heh
<cjwatson> though I agree with Steve, simply moving the race isn't a solution
<bdmurray> Is having it assigned to the team sufficient?
<cjwatson> I think somebody needs to take it and discuss with upstream
<jhunt> I started to look into this, but couldn't recreate the prob.
<jhunt> I'll ping apw (at Plumbers I think) re the further info and see what we can find.
<cjwatson> mm, being a race it may be difficult to reproduce directly; a reproduction case would involve getting a udev event into the queue, making sure it isn't processed before udevadm control --exit, and then checking that the event is processed somehow
<cjwatson> I suppose flooding udev with events just before the control --exit might do it
<cjwatson> err - checking that the event is lost, I mean
<cjwatson> the udev_exit case in udevd.c does:
<cjwatson>                         /* discard queued events and kill workers */
<cjwatson>                         event_queue_cleanup(udev, EVENT_QUEUED);
<cjwatson>                         worker_kill(udev, 0);
<cjwatson> which is probably fine if udevd has been SIGTERMed, but shouldn't it be a bit more careful in the control --exit case (i.e. graceful exit)?
<cjwatson> also I'm surprised that udev in the real root doesn't catch up with the lost events
<cjwatson> perhaps we assume that the device for the real root exists by the end of the initramfs
<cjwatson> jhunt: anyway, I think you're closest to this; can I assign it to you for the time being, and you can see what you and apw can work out?  feel free to ask me for ideas for debugging methods if need be
<jhunt> cjwatson: count on my calling on you at some point :-)
<bdmurray> finally there is bug 835625 which steve seems to be watching
<cjwatson> yep; it's a messy one, not expecting anything immediately
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 835625 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "apt may try to unpack a foreign-arch multiarch library before the native package is at a multiarch version, prohibited by dpkg" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835625
<bdmurray> however it is milestoned and unassigned
<cjwatson> yes, I think that's best left to Steve; I'll assign him for the time being
<bdmurray> okay, that's all I've got
<cjwatson> OK, thank you
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> anything else?
<bdmurray> I'm guessing pitti is at plumbers too?  I could use a second pair of eyes regarding the ubiquity apport package hook
<cjwatson> I'm not sure; he has been on IRC today
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-11.10-beta-2 isn't looking too bad, but obviously needs continuing attention
<cjwatson> sounds like that's a wrap; thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep  7 15:39:17 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-07-15.02.moin.txt
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<doko> bye
<jhunt> thanks
 * charlie-tca waves
<pedro_> hola :-)
<nuclearbob> howdy
<nuclearbob> gema had some things to take care of today, so we traded weeks
<nuclearbob> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep  7 17:00:17 2011 UTC.  The chair is nuclearbob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<nuclearbob> #meetingtopic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Previous Actions Meeting | Current topic:
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Previous Actions Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<nuclearbob> anything left over from last week?
<charlie-tca> Nothing I can remember
<nuclearbob> all right
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Previous Actions Meeting | Current topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<nuclearbob> any updates for this since yesterday's status emails?
<nuclearbob> sounds like no
<nuclearbob> I guess we can move on
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Previous Actions Meeting | Current topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<nuclearbob> bjf, are you still with us or have you rotated back to the kernel team?
<nuclearbob> I guess while I'm at it, who is here today?
<charlie-tca> o/
<pedro_> o/
<nuclearbob> I've been working with patrickmw and bjf on automated testing, we're trying to get ltp results created in a virtual machine inserted into a database so they'll be automatically pulled out before the vm is destroyed and then they can be logged by jenkins
<charlie-tca> Well, that makes your first time as chair harder
<nuclearbob> yeah
<nuclearbob> I think bjf will soon be or already is rotated back to the kernel team, so I'll be picking up the work he was doing
<nuclearbob> anything else on Automated/Systems Testing?
<nuclearbob> all right
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Odds & Ends
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Previous Actions Meeting | Current topic:  Odds & Ends
<nuclearbob> Gema has been going over possible use case configurations and trying to narrow down a good subset of them to test
<nuclearbob> different factors were network connectivity, os layout, partition layout, memory, available disk space, and file systems in use
<nuclearbob> bjf created some bug tracking reports here:
<nuclearbob> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/iso-testing-open-oneiric.html
<nuclearbob> and here:
<nuclearbob> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/oneiric-milestone-bugs.html
<nuclearbob> anything else?
<pedro_> are those being updated regularly?
<nuclearbob> the last bugs
<nuclearbob> I see are from the 1st, so I'm not sure if they are
<pedro_> ah it says : "2011-09-02 00:27:54.043914"
<nuclearbob> I'll get information from Brad on what needs to be done to get those up to date and see about taking over that process
<pedro_> nuclearbob, awesome, thanks
<nuclearbob> any other odds or ends?
<nuclearbob> all right
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Next Chait
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Previous Actions Meeting | Current topic:  Next Chait
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Next Chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Previous Actions Meeting | Current topic:  Next Chair
<nuclearbob> last week we planned for Gema to take this meeting and I was going to take next week, but Gema was unavailable today, so we swapped
<nuclearbob> unless anyone objects, Gema will chair the next meeting
<pedro_> heh sounds like a plan then ;-)
<charlie-tca> great
<nuclearbob> all right
<nuclearbob> [ACTION] gema to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: gema to chair next meeting
<nuclearbob> anything else?
<nuclearbob> all right, thanks everybody, see you next week
<nuclearbob> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep  7 17:20:15 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-07-17.00.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> nuclearbob: thank you for chairing
<nuclearbob> no problem
<pedro_> nuclearbob, thank you for chairing
<nuclearbob> it's pretty easy when there aren't very many people here :)
<pedro_> indeed :-)
<falantino1> hi all
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-08
<plars> Hi
<plars> err
<plars> wc
<plars> :)
<ogra_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  8 15:00:15 2011 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110908
<ogra_> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110908
<ogra_> pfft
<ogra_> who is here ?
 * ogra_ fears only GrueMaster and me
 * rbasak is here
<GrueMaster> Zzzzz
<ogra_> heh
<rbasak> Daviey: ?
<czajkowski> me to watch ogra_ chair another meeting!
 * mrjazzcat lurks
<ogra_> well, lets make this a quick one then, many team members are traveling (plumbers) or on vacation
 * cmagina waves
<ogra_> #topic action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action items
<ogra_> there were none i could find on the wikipages
<ogra_> eirther michael didnt update that or we had none :)
 * ogra_ just assumes the latter for now
<ogra_> #standing items
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<ogra_> hmm, there are two persia items
<ogra_> GrueMaster, any idea if he will work on them ?
<GrueMaster> Let me look at them.
<ogra_> hmm, i thought LTSP and NBD were assigned to me
<GrueMaster> Not seeing any for persia.
<ogra_> i wonder why they show up there
<ogra_> GrueMaster, on the beta-2 page
<ogra_> LUKS and LVM testing
<ogra_> anyway, that seems all wrong all over
<GrueMaster> Refresh or something.  I already completed the LVM and LUKS testing.
<ogra_> [action] ogra to find out whats wrong with the tracker
<meetingology> ACTION: ogra to find out whats wrong with the tracker
<ogra_> BAH !!!!!
 * ogra_ kicks chroimum
<ogra_> the url came out of the cache ... i'm on ubuntu-armel
<GrueMaster> I'm looking at the same links.  You have the LTSP & NBD items.
<ogra_> sigh
<ogra_> yeah, that looks better, sorry, my browser tricked me
<GrueMaster> heh
<ogra_> and imho it all looks fine
 * ogra_ moves on
<GrueMaster> I'm not sure what to do for SELinux.
<ogra_> #topic server status NCommander, Daviey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: server status NCommander, Daviey
<ogra_> GrueMaster, given we generally treat it as a nice to have in ubuntu i think that could slip to P as long as apparmor is fine
 * GrueMaster will come back to WI issues in QA section.
 * rsalveti just noticed that the linaro related topic is not at the wiki
<ogra_> do we have anything for server status
<ogra_> rsalveti, feel free to add it :) just tell me when to reload
<rbasak> What needs doing for ARM server and how can I help?
<GrueMaster> rbasak: Mainly testing.
<ogra_> rbasak, well, the gusy caring for it seem to not be around, but generally we can need help with QA and the like
<rbasak> apart from testing is there anything else?
<ogra_> there are so many server apps ...
<ogra_> and while GrueMaster does an awesome job, he cant test all of it alone
<rsalveti> ogra_: done
<ogra_> NCommand1r, anything from you to add for the server topic ? (since you are around)
<ogra_> doesnt look like
<rbasak> So to help with testing, I'll speak to GrueMaster about what I can do later shall I?
<rbasak> Or if not, who?
<ogra_> rbasak, well, generally we are all available in #ubuntu-arm in our awake hours
<ogra_> lets carry that to there after the meeting
<rbasak> OK
 * ogra_ moves on
<GrueMaster> rbasak: Take a look at http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/u/gruemaster.html and feel free to pull any open WI (just let me know which).
<ogra_> #topic kernel status ppisati, cooloney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: kernel status ppisati, cooloney
<ogra_> hmm, neitrher of them is around
<ogra_> rsalveti, any intresting kernel bits on your side we should know about ?
 * ogra_ saw someone is fiddling with sound stuff
<GrueMaster> It would appear that the USB SMP issue has been resolved.  I am doing testing on the new kernel now.
<Daviey> gah!
<ogra_> Daviey, shoudl we re-visit ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: sound should be sorted at the current omap 4 package
<ogra_> rsalveti, including userspace ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, someone updated the alsa ucm configs
<ogra_> i think i read thats still missing
<rsalveti> ogra_: will check what is needed to make it work later today
<ogra_> thanks, if you need anything on our side feel free to chase me down :)
<rsalveti> ogra_: and I'm now just waiting the TI update on the SGX side
<Daviey> ogra_: It really needs to be NCommander and GrueMaster providing an update.. I'm empty ;(
<GrueMaster> Cool.  Will keep an eye out for it on the next desktop image.
<rsalveti> to see if we're still missing any related patch to make it work properly with latest kernel
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> ac100 kernel is still pending an update to the latest tree tip btw
<ogra_> (it carries the USB patch too, and apparently USB throughput went from 7M/s to over 20)
<ogra_> any more stuff for kernel ?
<rsalveti> yup :-)
<rsalveti> ogra_: nops
<ogra_> Daviey, GrueMaster will give a QA update, does that suffice ? NCommand1r is on vac. he would give updates i fear
<ogra_> #topic ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra_> ftbfs page looks good :)
<ogra_> nothing pressing
<rsalveti> nops, lot of help from folks to get the ftbfs related bugs fixed
 * ogra_ dug a bit into the vlc issues the last days ... that will be fixded once Qt is updated 
<doko> ogra_, it's not complete ;)
<ogra_> doko, according to nokia it is fixed in the version we plan to pull
<ogra_> or is there anything required on the vlc side ?
<doko> rsalveti, did you tag gcc ICE's too?
<rsalveti> doko: afaik, yes
<rsalveti> will double check
<ogra_> anything else for ftbfs ?
<doko> rsalveti (and janimo): please open a gcc-4.x task for those too, and best attach the preprocessed source
<rsalveti> doko: sure, fair enough
<ogra_> jani is on vacation
<ogra_> like nearly everyone in the arm team atm
<rsalveti> interesting time to have vacations
<rsalveti> before the release hehe :-)
<ogra_> well ... i'm not granting them, dont complain to me :)
 * ogra_ moves on
<rsalveti> sure, just saying :-)
<ogra_> #topic ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> failed today once again due to archive skew
<ogra_> (ubiquity was just building on armel when the images attempted to build)
<GrueMaster> yep, noticed.
<ogra_> generally they should be fine
<ogra_> ac100 has an issue with initrd size i hopefully have fixed now
 * rsalveti hates launchpad search
<ogra_> oh, and ac100 is now semi official
<ogra_> we can blog about it etc
<ogra_> other than that, i'm a bit desparate with the mx5 images
<ogra_> while i can finish the livefs building, i dont have the HW and no clue what code we need to make it bootable
 * GrueMaster wonders if they will happen this cycle.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, i wasnt aware that jani is off this week
<ogra_> that indeed puts us way behind
<ogra_> i would have needed him for finishing it
<GrueMaster> Well, we "should" have had them shortly after the rally.  Just saying.
<ogra_> we didnt have the HW at any place where someone had time to work on it
<ogra_> it wont take more than one or two days to implement it ... effectively we only need to add the arch to the config
<rsalveti> ogra_: what else is needed to publish images for imx53?
<ogra_> buit it will need plenty testbuilds which is time consuming
<ogra_> rsalveti, only the debian-cd bits and editing a config file for cdimage, we have the livefs builds ready
<ogra_> its just the post-processing for u-boot or whatever bootloader
<rsalveti> hm, ok
<ogra_> mkimage calls etc
<rsalveti> sounds like 1, 2 days of work
<ogra_> irts really trivial if i have the HW
<ogra_> less
<rsalveti> ok
<ogra_> 1/2 day but 3 days for testbuilds etc
<rsalveti> yeah...
<ogra_> which is mainly blocking due to archive skew
<ogra_> i usually fix more archive skew than i actually do anything on the images if i need to testbuild :P
<ogra_> anyway
<ogra_> thast all from me for images
<ogra_> anything else ?
<ogra_> #topic QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
 * ogra_ leans back
<GrueMaster> Still being bogged down by bug 806751. With it, I have to manually create a netboot image to get through install.
<GrueMaster> iSCSI working to a point.  Now blocked by bug 838809 (as are all other archs).
<GrueMaster> AoE tested fine as remote disk.  No information on how to setup for diskless boot.
<ogra_> hrm, where is the bugbot
 * GrueMaster wakes bugbot.
<GrueMaster> ubottu: hello?
<ogra_> well, the first should be fixed if michael is back
<GrueMaster> Heh, sure.
 * ogra_ just uses #ubuntu-arm's bugbot :)
<ogra_> i doubt we have any initrd support for AOE booting
<ogra_> so that should all be fine
<GrueMaster> Well, other than those, I am still steamrollering through the server test workitems.
<ogra_> Daviey, what else do you want from GrueMaster ?
<GrueMaster> Oh, I also ran into a curious issue with SD cards that are used only for bootloader/kernel.  Seems that once they have been booted off of, they can not be removed from the system without the system going wonky.
<GrueMaster> I.e. you can't swap SD cards and expect to be able to read them.  The kernel refuses to refresh the partition tables.
<ogra_> yeahm, thats a very weird behavior
<ogra_> and not easy to explain, did you talk to any bootloader guys (jcrigby, sakoman etc) ?
<GrueMaster> Not sure if it is a kernel issue or a u-boot issue.  Kind of leaning to the u-boot, as I have seen this when doing netinstall over pxe, and only using SD for MLO/u-boot.bin.
<GrueMaster> Not yet.
<ogra_> would be intresting to know if it happens in the other case too
<ogra_> i.e. with root on SD
<ogra_> how do you copy the SD ? binary (dd) or do you format the vfat by hand etc
<GrueMaster> With root on SD it is bound to happen.  Linux doesn't like swapping out the rootfs.
<ogra_> well, yeah for a comparison you would have to copy the rootfs too
<GrueMaster> Because of bug 806751, I have to manually format the SD.
<ogra_> ah, indeed
<ogra_> well, definitely worth filing a bug for ... even though i fear it wont be high prio
<GrueMaster> And the netboot images are so off as far as CHS goes, that I have to completely blast the SD and repartition/reformat from a different system.
<Daviey> ogra_: Really, want to look at automating the tests
<GrueMaster> I already have filed a bug on this.
<ogra_> Daviey, well, implement kvm or libvirt support in arm kernels
<Daviey> ogra_: GrueMaster has done a nice job of creating some complex test cases which we would find useful on tadional arches aswell.
<ogra_> seems our testsuites cant eat anything else
<Daviey> ogra_: But not much use, until ARM can be part of the automated testing infrastructure.
<GrueMaster> Daviey: I am more than wanting to automate them.  Unfortunately, I have to do a ton of research for each test usually just to get them to work.
<ogra_> Daviey, right, buit due to missing kvm its hard to automate them
<Daviey> ogra_: No, using linvirt and kvm is the wrong approach :)
<GrueMaster> I agree with that.
<ogra_> i think we should put the automating on our plate for the P cycle and move that stuff to generic qemu
<ogra_> with a joined tream effort
<ogra_> *team
<GrueMaster> We need to make sure all of our server tests can run on raw systems as well as kvm.
<Daviey> ogra_: The same functionality needs to be created external to libvirt to support it for bare metal
<ogra_> GrueMaster, well, kvm is essential qemu with kernel support
<ogra_> so it should be possible to switch to plain qemu
<Daviey> ogra_: it requires collaboration between the arm team, server team and QA.
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> Daviey, i think thats a good P target :)
<Daviey> :)
<ogra_> hello ubott2 and ubottu
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> bug 12345
<ogra_> hmm
 * GrueMaster will add a spec for joint collaboration.
<Daviey> ogra_ / GrueMaster: we'll need to get our thinking caps on for UDS.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, hmm, that did come out differently than intended, but i wont complain
<rbasak> What about the discussion about having nova support instantiating metal?
<ogra_> Daviey, well, we have a wikipage to collect such stuff :)
<ogra_> anything else for QA ?
<Daviey> GrueMaster: I'm expecting QA to drive it, with you offering ARM guidance (and rbasak), with jamespage offering Jenkins help.
<GrueMaster> Sounds good.
<GrueMaster> I have nothing else.
 * ogra_ moves 
<rbasak> If we want openstack support then it needs to be discussed at this upcoming ODS doesn't it?
 * Daviey dances
<Daviey> rbasak: in part, yes
<ogra_> #topic linaro (rsalveti)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: linaro (rsalveti)
<ogra_> rbasak, i think the basics are there already
<rsalveti> updated list for 11.09 https://launchpad.net/linaro-ubuntu/+milestone/11.09
<ogra_> NCommander worked on getting LXC working on arm
<ogra_> so openstack on top of that should not be to much work
<rsalveti> we should be updating the linux-linaro packages at oneiric probably next week
<ogra_> great
<rsalveti> and hopefully trying a FFe for libjeg-turbo
<rsalveti> at least for universe
<ogra_> what do we have to expect from the upstream sync of u-boot ?
<ogra_> any possible issues
<rsalveti> ogra_: we don't expect any major changes
<ogra_> good
<rsalveti> just basically syncing our own modifications
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: Does the usb smp patch need to be applied to u-boot?
<ogra_> whats that android components for ubuntu ?
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: not that I know
<ogra_> adb shell ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: yup
<ogra_> cool
<rsalveti> for u-boot, we may need a package update for blaze
<GrueMaster> PXE on more platforms interests me.
<ogra_> yeah
<rsalveti> just saw sebastian posted some patches for fixes
<ogra_> how about multiarch ? any breakage we need to be prepared for ?
 * GrueMaster would like to see omap first, then others (mx53, etc).
<rsalveti> ogra_: not atm, just small bug fixes
<ogra_> good
<rsalveti> for major changes we're just pushing to debian
<rsalveti> to sync at P
<ogra_> thats a good idea
<Daviey> bug 827705 seems to be a linaro task, how is that going?
<Daviey> urgh
<Daviey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/u-boot-linaro/+bug/827705
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827705 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "PXE boot requests non-standard config filename" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827705
 * ogra_ hopes asac will hold a talk at UDS "what is star rating" :)
<rsalveti> and we'll have gcc-linaro packages too, but not for oneiric
<rsalveti> that's all from my side
<ogra_> any comment for Daviey ?
<rsalveti> let me check
<ogra_> seems lool alerady added a patch
<rsalveti> I think that's fixed already
<rsalveti> will check
<ogra_> yeah, likely slipped the papaerwork
<lool> I did, yes
<ogra_> doesnt sound like it would boot with that bug still in place
<lool> I sent it to upstream and to John; I think it's in?
<rsalveti> I think so, will check with john
<GrueMaster> Shows as Fix Committed as of 8/18
<ogra_> GrueMaster, not in ubuntu
<ogra_> but i think thats just an oversight
<GrueMaster> In u-boot-linaro.
<rsalveti> http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=boot/u-boot-linaro-stable.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/Linaro-u-boot-2011.08
<rsalveti> yup, seems to be in
<ogra_> great, can someone close it
<ogra_> Daviey, you happy ?
<rsalveti> 2011.08.6-0ubuntu2
<GrueMaster> I can close it.
<rsalveti> ubuntu is using the latest tag already
 * ogra_ thought so
<ogra_> i wonder if we should just drop the upstream/downstream distinction for linaro packages that fully live in ubuntu anyway
<GrueMaster> What about the u-boot and u-boot (ubuntu) tags?  Isn't that an old tree?
<ogra_> seems to add confusion
<GrueMaster> Ok.  Marked them as invalid, and marked Linaro U-Boot & u-boot-linaro (ubuntu) as Fix Released.
<ogra_> greaqt
<ogra_> anything else ?
<Daviey> ogra_: over the mon
 * ogra_ moves then
<ogra_> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
 * ogra_ has nothing
<ogra_> anyone ?
<ogra_> sounds like not ...
<ogra_> going once
<ogra_> going twice
 * GrueMaster remains silent.
<ogra_> sold to the man with the funny hat
<ogra_> #ednmeeting
<ogra_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  8 15:56:35 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-08-15.00.moin.txt
<ogra_> grr, i make the same typo *every time*
<ogra_> thanks everyone
<pedro_> time for the meeting?
<bdmurray> indeed
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  8 17:03:07 2011 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdmurray> The agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
<bdmurray> #topic Updates of action items from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Updates of action items from previous meeting
<bdmurray> There are a couple of things relating to test cases:
<bdmurray> bdmurray tag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase
<bdmurray> bdmurray recommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description or in comments
<bdmurray> I've done neither of those but still can.  Do we think they are still a good idea?
<micahg> yes
<pedro_> i think so, yes
<hggdh> +1
<bdmurray> okay, lets carry those over then
<bdmurray> and I'll do them asap ;-)
<bdmurray> "
<bdmurray> then we have "bdmurray to recommend that auto bug modifiers not incomplete bug reports that have been triaged as triaged is a state settable only by people who know what is what"
<bdmurray> I've spoken with the people I know running bug bots so that is done
<charlie-tca> +1 to TEST CASE
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: I get it ;-)
<bdmurray> and finally "hggdh to review all bug workflows that result with an "Invalid" status and see if using "Incomplete" makes more sense and email bugsquad regarding results"
<hggdh> still do be finalised
<bdmurray> do you need some help?
<hggdh> not right now -- I just need to get on it 100%
<bdmurray> hggdh: okay got it
<hggdh> and thank you :-)
<bdmurray> #topic Mentorship program discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Mentorship program discussion
<bdmurray> I haven't been keeping a good eye on the mentorship program but it seems to have stagnated is that a fair statement?
<pedro_> seems so, i haven't seen much emails on that
<hggdh> yes. I have not seem much happening there; I am considering running a query on each one of the current mentees to see what they had done
<hggdh> My feeling is most of them are lurking -- they want it, as long as it automatically lands on them, and do all
<hggdh> from most of them I have not seen much...
<hggdh> (except, as far as I can remember, trinikrono
<hggdh> )
<bdmurray> Personally, I still feel like we had good success looking at people who were active on bugs and recruiting them into bug control as opposed to just asking people to join an amorphous mentoring program.
<hggdh> I agree
<hggdh> itis time to consider closing the mentorship, I thnk
<bdmurray> How do other people feel about this?
<pedro_> perhaps a good discussion for UDS? :-)
<hggdh> pedro_: yes, I agree
<hggdh> bdmurray, charlie-tca, micahg ?
<hggdh> (or anyone else?)
<charlie-tca> I agree
<bdmurray> I say +1 for discussing it at UDS but we should get some mentee input before that
<charlie-tca> That would be good, too
<bdmurray> somebody should email the mentorship group mailing list and see what's up
<hggdh> I will do it now
<micahg> +1 for closing the specific program, maybe a note about general mentoring that happens in #ubuntu-bugs
<bdmurray> and when I say what's up I mean what are you looking for from the program and what kind of mentoring are you looking for
<bdmurray> #action hggdh to email mentorship group alpha with questions regarding value of the program and what mentees are looking for
<meetingology> ACTION: hggdh to email mentorship group alpha with questions regarding value of the program and what mentees are looking for
<bdmurray> #action bdmurray to create spec for UDS P regarding mentorship program
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to create spec for UDS P regarding mentorship program
<bdmurray> #topic Open Discussions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussions
<bdmurray> Is there anything anybody would like to discuss or announce?
 * hggdh just notes an email has been sent to the mentorship ML requesting feedback
<bdmurray> Okay then, thanks everyone
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  8 17:27:28 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-08-17.03.moin.txt
<hggdh> thank you bdmurray
<pedro_> thanks!
<micahg> thanks bdmurray
<charlie-tca> bdmurray: thank you for chairing
 * pitti waves
<mdz> hi pitti
<cjwatson> I'm here, but this has turned out to overlap with dinner so I'm IRCing from my phone
<czajkowski> cjwatson: someting up with your mail just got it 9 times..
<cjwatson> has Mark said whether he's attending?
<pitti> kees and Keybuk excused themselves
<mdz> sabdfl is supposed to chair but hasn't shown yet
<pitti> cjwatson: he ponged a few hours back, he didn't say anything that he wouldn't
<cjwatson> czajkowski: I think you might find they were all slightly different
<czajkowski> out of 11 9 were very similar....
<cjwatson> the brainstorm mails?
<czajkowski> yup
<pitti> one still had "TOPIC", the others were different
<cjwatson> look more closely - they were to different people
<cjwatson> and slightly different subjects
<cjwatson> pitti: yes, I followed up to correct that
<czajkowski> shall go back to reading just the first paragraph of each looks similar , sorry.
<pitti> otherwise, brainstorm review is going on well, no new community bugs, and I didn't spot anything new on the list
<cjwatson> and nominations in progress
<pitti> the TB reelection seems to be in progress, too
<pitti> right
<cjwatson> any current members not standing for reelection, out of interest'
<cjwatson> ?
 * pitti reapplied
<cjwatson> as did I
<cjwatson> so I guess we have no business to conduct?
<pitti> seems so; Mark didn't mention anything to me either
<pitti> so, I guess we can officially call this a day?
<cjwatson> I guess so, quiet week :)
<pitti> so, good night everyone!
<cjwatson> have fun at Plumbers
<broder> pitti, are you at plumbers?
<sabdfl> hello all, sorry to be late
<sabdfl> oh bollocks, mdz, just saw your ping
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-09
<pitti> broder: I'm not, no
 * skaet waves
<jdstrand> hello
<cjwatson> hi
 * stgraber waves
 * rsalveti waves
<skaet> looks like its time to begin.  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Sep  9 15:00:43 2011 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pitti> hello
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-09-09
<skaet> .
<skaet> 11.10 FeatureFreeze,  UserInterfaceFreeze now in effect
<skaet> 11.10 Beta Freeze: Sept 15, 2100 UTC  (GNOME 3.1.92 - TBD)
<skaet> 11.10 Beta 2: Sept 22, 2011.
<skaet> 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<skaet> .
<skaet> we've falling behind on the features for this release in the burndown charts, so would appreciate it if all the teams could please review the work items and make sure the status is accurate.
<skaet> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/
<skaet> .
<skaet> lots of bugs showing up on the lists,  needing fixes.
<skaet> Please review the overall lists for the release as well as your individual team lists for bugs that may have been overlooked.
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.tag=-ftbfs
<skaet> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-11.10-beta-2
<skaet> .
<skaet> Also, we're seeing some regressions that could use an extra look as well.
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release
<skaet> .
<skaet> There has been some discussion on #ubuntu-release this week whether we can include GNOME 3.1.92 in time for Beta 2.   It is scheduled to land on 9/19 - which is after Beta Freeze.  For those interested,  we'll be discussing this after we finish the roundtable part of the agenda.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any questions?
<pitti> skaet: I think that was gnome final
<pitti> ah, no, 92. ignore me, sorry
 * skaet looks around, not seeing questions
<skaet> np pitti.  :)
<skaet> ok, into the round table then
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> hi all!
<skaet> :)
<mlegris> [Week 36 Testing Report]
<mlegris> Smaller report this week due to Maverick and Lucid SRU
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week36_2011.html
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> * Â Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810145 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810145
<mlegris> any questions?
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!
<skaet> is 810415 the only one that cert thinks is a blocker?
<mlegris> for non system specific, yes
<skaet> ok,  I'll note it then.
 * skaet doesn't see other questions, so...
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<skaet> hmm... me doesn't see jibel around.   Will skip them for now then.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> We postponed several work items and dbus/apparmor will not be a part of Oneiric as a technology preview. Work is ongoing there and we hope to have something to upload very early in 'P'. The remaining work items should all be either bugs or items not tied to the release schedule.
<jdstrand> Looking at the list of oneiric bugs, there are a few worth highlighting:
<jdstrand> 837557: updates for DigiNotar. nss should be uploaded today and chromium hopefully next week (there are several regressions in current chromium that caused the delay)
<jdstrand> 834079, 835996, 836162, 844274: various lightdm security issues. These all show up on the appropriate lists, but I'd like to reiterate the importance that these be fixed before release. I should also point out that at least the first bug is being discussed outside of Ubuntu
<jdstrand> 344878: the ecryptfs long filename bug. My team will now handle this since we hired tyhicks (ecryptfs upstream). We don't plan to have a fix for oneiric, but we will deal with it in one way or another for 'P'. This will be discussed at UDS.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand.
<skaet> pitti - what's the outlook on the bugs jdstrand highlights re: lightdm?
<pitti> skaet: sorry, can't say; I can check with Robert next week and come back to you
<pitti> (I generally have very little overlap with him)
<jdstrand> I should mention they are fairly new bugs-- the first is only 2 weeks old
<jdstrand> (but that is the one being discussed outside of Ubuntu)
<skaet> thanks pitti.   and thanks jdstrand for highlighting them.
<skaet> any other questions for jdstrand?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Beta-2 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-kernel-tasks.html
<ogasawara> We uploaded linux-3.0.0-10.16 following Beta-1 to provide the latest upstream stable v3.0.4 patches as well as some misc bug fixes we'd been queueing.  With Kernel and Beta Freeze approaching next Thurs, I intend to do an upload today and possibly one more early next week before we freeze.  Any patches we receive after that are subject to our SRU policy.  We are currently trending above our Beta-2 burndown chart but are be
<ogasawara> low overall.  The remaining work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Also, as discussed in a previous meeting, please drop/move the following bugs in the agenda:
<ogasawara> #748842 - please drop, this is against linuxdcpp which is a universe package and not likely relevant for this meeting.  It was also recently marked Fix Released for Oneiric against linuxdcpp.
<ogasawara> #764893 - reported against os-prober, please move to foundations team
<ogasawara> Of the remaining bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660 - Looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261 - Closed Invalid against the kernel.
<ogasawara> #656486 - Closed Fix Released.
<ogasawara> #710733 - Confirmed against Oneiric, not release critical, investigation ongonig.
<ogasawara> #714862 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #746133 - Recently confirmed against Oneiric, assigning to kernel dev.
<ogasawara> #753071 - Closed Won't Fix for Oneiric, re-targetting patches to land in time for P-series.
<ogasawara> #754711 - On a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  systemtap debug scripts to help investigate are being worked on for Oneiric, see 815944 (systemtap fix recently posted upstream).
<ogasawara> #758486 - Told that TI will push a fix with the next BSP.
<ogasawara> #760131 - Partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #761082 - Confirmed against Oneiric, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #790712 - The order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #793486 - Closed Fix Released.
<ogasawara> #814325 - Issue confirmed upstream, actively under investigation by multiple devs.
<ogasawara> #820466 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<cjwatson> 764893 is already against foundations as well, but yes, it should be deleted from the kernel agenda
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara.  Appologies for not having those bugs moved. :(
<ogasawara> skaet: no worries, I was wondering if I should just edit myself?
<skaet> ogasawara, yes please.
<skaet> :)
<ogasawara> skaet: ack, will do.
<skaet> Any of the leads should feel free to edit status of the bugs if they are inaccurate or in wrong place.
<skaet> I pull it from the system the day before, so usually its close, but change happens.  :)
<skaet> any questions for ogasawara ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> General notes:
<cjwatson>  - A couple of us have been working on the NBS and FTBFS queues.  NBS is looking a lot healthier now, with only a few clusters remaining.  FTBFS is still a swamp, albeit draining slowly.
<cjwatson>  - stgraber is taking on an iSCSI bug, to try to spread experience of that stack a bit.
<cjwatson>  - We've had more people on installer bugs, which has made a dent in that queue.  Still more to do.
<cjwatson>  - eglibc bug-fix upload in preparation.
<cjwatson>  - Working on various friendly-recovery improvements.
<cjwatson>  - Continued work on clearing up some of our larger sources of duplicate bugs.
<cjwatson>  - GCC update; should be final except for ARM.
<cjwatson>  - We've had one high-priority bug caused by bug 844103 which we had to work around, and there may be others lurking.  I know gdm is no longer the default, but could somebody on desktop please look into that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844103 in gdm (Ubuntu) "/sbin not in $PATH" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844103
<cjwatson>  - We have three staff out on holiday and/or Plumbers.
<cjwatson> Bugs:
<cjwatson>  - Ubiquity bugs are mostly waiting for Evan to return from Plumbers.
<cjwatson>  - Bug 745960: Mixed messages on bug, unknown outlook at this point.  There is a grub2 dmraid patch outstanding which may help at least some commenters.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745960 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot boot grub after installing to LVM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745960
<cjwatson>  - Bug 764893: Patch outstanding, should get it merged soon.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 764893 in os-prober (Ubuntu Oneiric) "os-prober: does not detect Ubuntu in btrfs subvolume" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764893
<cjwatson>  - Bug 819328: Michael is on holiday; will check up when he returns.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819328 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[Oneiric] update-manager crashed with DBusException in _run(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819328
<cjwatson>  - Bug 819624: Not sure if this still needs to be open; I've left a comment asking for feedback.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819624 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "casper doesn't configure autologin for lightdm properly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819624
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson!
<skaet> what is the bug associated with the eglibc change?
<skaet> and has eglibc landing in the repository been coordinated with the arm team?
<cjwatson> a handful of Debian bugs (http://bugs.debian.org/639213, http://bugs.debian.org/640300, http://bugs.debian.org/640753) plus bug 842258
<ubottu> Debian bug 639213 in libc6-dev "Uses #if on an undefined preprocessor symbol, should use defined()" [Normal,Fixed]
<ubottu> Debian bug 640300 in libc6 "revert the perl Breaks entry" [Normal,Fixed]
<ubottu> Debian bug 640753 in libc6 "libc6 fails to upgrade with a statically linked /bin/true" [Important,Fixed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842258 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "ARM strchr fails to convert c to char" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842258
<cjwatson> no, but eglibc changes don't usually cause a particular problem on arm ...?
<cjwatson> there are no tight arch: any/all dependencies
<ogra_> usually not
<skaet> eglibc is pervasive for arm though.
<cjwatson> it's pervasive for all architectures :-)
<ogra_> :)
<cjwatson> doko's running test builds before upload
<skaet> yup.  hence my concern.  esp as one of the fixes is strchr.  ;)
<ogra_> i dont think it will bother us much more than the other arches
<cjwatson> strchr was broken before, which seems worse
<ogra_> yeah
<skaet> ok,  if ogra_'s aware and wanting it, that's the main thing.
<ogra_> i would never refuse a fix :)
 * skaet agrees strchr broken is not good.   
<skaet> any other questions for cjwatson?
<ogra_> at least if we dont have to rebuild the whole archive a week before release through it :)
<cjwatson> it's a corner case, mercifully
<skaet> heh, all mercies gratefully accepted at this point in the cycle ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team update
<skaet> ogra_, ^^
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  - For the OMAP4 images some u-boot and kernel changes are ahead that will need FFe's
<ogra_>  - The OMAP4 kernel will get the framework for new syslink shortly before kernel freeze,
<ogra_>    it might not work yet but will provide an easier environment to add SRUs to make video decoding work.
<ogra_>  - Remaining hardcoded flash-kernel bits were moved out of initramfs-tools
<ogra_>  - Cleanup of jasper is still ongoing
<ogra_>  - AC100 images are done but yet untested due to archive skew
<ogra_>  - mx5 fell behind a bit but we will have them ready during next week.
<ogra_>  - Server QA testing goes on
<ogra_>  - Sound devices were enabled again in the OMAP4 kernels pending tests.
<ogra_>  - The expected GLES code will not enter unity/compiz/nux anymore this cycle, instead the DX team comitted to have
<ogra_>    the code ready and merged before opening of the P cycle (and give a demo at UDS). Oneiric will ship GLES Unity in a PPA.
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  - Desktop images don't build due to archive skew (we only had 2 successful image builds this week)
<ogra_>  - Server images build and install fine
<ogra_>  - Netboot images work fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_>  - B2 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> ~
<skaet> Thanks ogra_!
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> please let me know when there are bootable AC100 images, and I'll give them a try.  (have my AC100 with me ;) )
<ogra_> yay, will do
<ogra_> theoretically the next successfull build should work
<skaet> when specifically will the mx5 images be available?
<ogra_> but as said, theoretically ... testing is hard if you cant build them
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> mx5 livefses are alreayd buildable, its just a matter of thze post processing in debian-cd
<ogra_> hopefull we will have that done mid next week
<ogra_> sadly the persons in the team owning that HW are either at plumbers or on vacation, that slowed it down a bit
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> just under the beta freeze wire....
<skaet> :/
<ogra_> yeah, but no worries, we'll make it
<skaet> :)
<skaet> any other questions for ogra_ ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalveti or fabo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro update - rsalveti or fabo
<fabo> o/
<fabo> = Developer Platform =
<fabo>  - FFe for u-boot-linaro in progress, to fix eMMC support for Blaze
<fabo>  - FFe for last linux-linaro related packages, to update them against our 11.08 release (shouldn't affect anything at the Ubuntu side)
<fabo>  - FFe for linaro-image-tools, bug 834003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834003 in Linaro Image Tools "FFE: upload 11.08 to Oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834003
<fabo>  - Work on-going at the GLES support for NUX (https://code.launchpad.net/~linaro-graphics-wg/nux/nux-gles2/+merge/70279), but after discussing with DX team, GLES support for Unity-3D will not be included for Oneiric :-(
<fabo>  - Progress at bug 746023, ogra_ reported that sound is working again at Oneiric after latest kernel package update
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746023 in alsa-utils (Ubuntu Natty) "No sound on omap4" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746023
<fabo>  - Would like to have a FFe for libjpeg-turbo, to have it available at least for Oneiric, work on-going
<fabo> --
<fabo> = Infrastructure =
<fabo>  - work on-going to extend status.linaro.org. It will show Linaro's roadmap implemented as a Kanban board (kanbantool).
<fabo> --
<fabo> = Toolchain WG =
<fabo>  - 11.09 release next Thursday (September 15th), bugs planned for this release below
<fabo>  #823711 libvirt version 0.9.2-4ubuntu8 failed to build on armel - INPROGRESS
<fabo>  #836401 ICE on a | (b << negative-constant) - INPROGRESS
<fabo>  #843775 ICE optimizing widening multiply-and-accumulate - INPROGRESS
<fabo>  #689887 armel ICE gcc 4.5 - INPROGRESS
<fabo>  #809761 oss4 version 4.2-build2004-1ubuntu1 failed to build on armel - INPROGRESS
<fabo>  #823708 traverso version 0.49.2-4 failed to build on armel - INPROGRESS
<fabo>  #827990 internal compiler error: in decode_addr_const, at varasm.c:2632 - INPROGRESS
<fabo>  #823548 Can't use -flto with skia - FIX COMMITED
<fabo> --
<fabo> = Validation =
<fabo>  - work on going on lava-qatracker, a QATracker replacement, to record manual test runs in Linaro Automated Validation Architecture (LAVA).
<fabo> ..
<skaet> Thanks fabo!    Lots of good data in your report I'm goingto want to digest a bit offline.
<skaet> any one have specific questions for fabo?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<skaet> hmm,  they don't seem to be around
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update - pitti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team update - pitti
<pitti> Updated GNOME to 3.1.91 (second beta). Just two packages (gnome-screensaver and gnome-user-docs) are behind still, updates in progress.
<pitti> New compiz/unity release with lots of rebuilds due to yet another libunity ABI break. This finally brings CJK support, works with Qt 4.7.4 (now also uploaded), and fixes two dozen bugs.
<pitti> pygobject 2.90 transition done, ubiquity fix merged. No known breakage from this any more.
<pitti> OneConf got broken due to switching software-center to the GTK 3 version, but Didier ported it over, so it's working again.
<pitti> Did some NBS transitions/portings/package removals to eliminate libpanel-applet2, libnotify1, libcamel-1.2-28, and libevent-1.4-2; waiting for arm/powerpc to catch up until we can fully remove them.
<pitti> We still have a number of open work items, but most of them are now the "ensure that..", "test that...", "talk to..", and "create blueprint for P..." kind
<pitti> RC bugs: overview at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti> Noteworthy are:
<pitti>  * bug 772873: this has been a long-standing issue, and unfortunately we have nobody in the team who is capable of fixing this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 772873 in vino (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Vino does not work with compositing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772873
<pitti>  * bug 790240: might be postponed to P, not really release critical; OpenJDK still depends on/pulls in the old at-spi bits, but they are now co-installable with at-spi2, so the induced breakage was fixed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790240 in java-access-bridge (Ubuntu Oneiric) "at-spi needs demotion for oneiric (at-spi2-core in main)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790240
<pitti> ..
<pitti> oh, btw, there is a known breakage with pygobject, rhythmbox plugins
<skaet> Thanks pitti!.   Lots of changes!  Good to get the fixes in.
<pitti> (just learned that some minutes ago)
<skaet> heh
<pitti> it's on our radar
<skaet> goodness.
<skaet> understood about the vino bug - need to follow up offline with others to see if there are options or not.
<skaet> any questions for pitti?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth_> hiya
<skaet> :)
<dbarth_> report at the usual address: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth_>  * New Unity 4.14.0 weekly release
<dbarth_>   * 16 bug fixes for 4.12.0, including:
<dbarth_>    * P3: [natty] Cannot click on indicators (LP: #819202)
<dbarth_>    * [dash] Search field in Unity can not support iBus (LP: #663776)
<dbarth_>    * [dash] preferred applications are not stored in GConf anylonger (LP: #805063)
<dbarth_>    * Music Lens doesn't display items until you search (LP: #824892)
<dbarth_>    * Dash - Adjustments to stateful behaviour  (LP: #838667)
<dbarth_>    * cannot paste into dash (particularly relevant for alt+f2) (LP: #736222)
<dbarth_>    * ARM FTBFS fix (LP: #834576)
<dbarth_>   * and 28 new bug fixes for 4.14.0, including
<dbarth_>    * unity crashed with AttributeError in reset_unity_compiz_profile(): 'str' object has no attribute 'get_string' (LP: #809378)
<dbarth_>    * unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in main_arena() (LP: #817477)
<dbarth_>    * unity-panel-service Leaks Memory (LP: #779185)
<dbarth_>    * Speedup startup time (LP: #842656)
<dbarth_>    * with a hat tip to contributor TreviÃ±o who fixed a lot of bug for this release: thanks!
<dbarth_>  * Unity-2d - New 4.6 weekly release
<dbarth_>   * 18 bug fixes for 4.4 including:
<dbarth_>    * several crasher fixes
<dbarth_>    * [panel] Implement whitelisting for legacy tray applet (LP: #707354)
<dbarth_>    * [dash] Invalid UTF-8 in the dash (LP: #836587)
<dbarth_>   * 15 new bug fixes, essentially polish, for 4.6
<dbarth_>  * Weekly release of compiz: 0.9.5.94
<dbarth_>   * Ready for upload on Monday, fixing:
<dbarth_>  * The weekly crop of indicator fixes is impressive https://launchpad.net/unity-foundations/+milestone/oneiric-beta-2
<dbarth_>   * 17 fixes released so far, and 14 new bug fixes committed, including several crasher fixes for the indicator-session service and a lot of adjustments to polish the UI and manage corner cases
<dbarth_> and finally
<dbarth_> we have CJK nailed down for good now
<dbarth_> ibus support, CJK activation patches everywhere (ZG, SC); we're ready for the Asian market
<dbarth_> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth_ !!   and thanks to the team for all those bug fixes!
<dbarth_> i've commented on the full list of bug on the release team radar in the report mentioned above
<dbarth_> will pass the word; thanks
 * skaet looking forward to seeing the CJK start to roll out.  :)
<skaet> any questions for dbarth_ ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
 * skaet looks around for ScottK?
<ScottK> Here now.
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> (was on the phone for $WORK)
<ScottK> Started uploading KDE 4.7.1.
<ScottK> It's going well, but slowly.
<ScottK> Should finish today.
<ScottK> didrocks uploaded Qt 4.7.4 today.
<ScottK> So that gives us our release versions of these key packages.
<ScottK> So far so good.
<ScottK> Seems like good results getting issues from beta 1 resolved.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK
<skaet> how do your arm images look?
 * highvoltage wonders if ScottK will ever post a picture of his arm
<skaet> lol.  :)
<ScottK> arm builds are running way behind.
<ScottK> Due to this rebuild, it takes a long time to get a builder.
<ScottK> So it's been several days since arm was installable.
<ScottK> It probably won't be until about Tuesday next week.
<ScottK> That's a long way of saying, dunno.
<skaet> was afraid that might be the case for you as well  :(
<skaet> thanks though for the context.  I'll check with you next Tuesday.
<skaet> we need to finalize the release manifest about now,  and make some choices.
<ScottK> I'd like to push that to next week if we can.
<skaet> any other questions for ScottK?
<skaet> next Tuesday is next week???  am I misunderstanding something?
<ScottK> Sometime next week.  Probably more towards the end of the week.
<ScottK> We won't even start to understand where we are until Tuesday.
<ScottK> Qt is a 4 day build on armel.
<skaet> fair enough,  will see where we are around beta freeze time then.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
<stgraber> Hi everyone!
<stgraber> Not much to report for Edubuntu this week.
<stgraber> Sent out a call for translations and got quite a few new translations as a result: http://www.stgraber.org/2011/09/06/help-translate-edubuntu-11-10/
<stgraber> DVD isn't building at the moment because of a broken langpack (language-pack-kde-my this time). Will poke at it next week if not fixed by then.
<stgraber> That's about it.
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> Questions?
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!   Good news on getting the more translators!
<pitti> stgraber: argh, that again? this keeps sprinting into existence, I need to investigate this
 * pitti remmoved -kde-my at least three times now
<stgraber> yeah...
<pitti> stgraber: removing, tomorrow's images should build
<stgraber> thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> I would like to say Thank You to all those involved in getting the bugs from Beta1 fixed.
<charlie-tca> * #819624: "casper doesn't configure autologin for lightdm properly" - mentioned by foundations above.
<charlie-tca> This should only be for the live sessions, which are working for autologin
<charlie-tca> We are going to need a couple of FFe's for blueman,
<charlie-tca> * #831488: Xubuntu should not call gnome-control-center - bluetooth interface is a control-center panel in GNOME3 so it should depends on it. Since gnome-control-center now involves installing most of Gnome3, bluetooth is completely broken for us.
<charlie-tca> A workaround is to seed blueman and allow it to be used instead of gnome-control-center
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca!   and appreciate the head's up on the pending FFE.
<skaet> any one have questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team update - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<gilir> Hi :)
<skaet> :)
<gilir> Not much to report this week.
<gilir> Bugs triaging in progress, nothing horrible so far.
<gilir> We still need to update the images & the theme of ubiquity slideshow, add some alternate wallpapers, and adjust the size of the ISOs.
<gilir> And just a quick note that we have now alternate ISO images, a big thank to cjwatson for fixing them, and jibel for testing them a few hours before beta release :)
<gilir> ..
<skaet> +1 :)
<skaet> Thanks gilir!   any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update - tumbleweed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> hi
<tumbleweed> things seem pretty good on the whole. FTBFS packages are way down http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html
<tumbleweed> pitti is looking at the ekiga stack, which looks like it'll all be bumped to new versions
<tumbleweed> ..
<pitti> just waiting for another release team member +1
<pitti> (or -1)
<tumbleweed> I thought we were looking for someone who knew the affect on asterisk?
<pitti> that, too
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed.  I like that FTBFS chart line.  :)   A bit thank you to all who have been helping with it.
<broder> pitti, tumbleweed: are you looking for someone? i know i've seen some blog posts from superm1 on asterisk stuff
<doko> tumbleweed, these numbers are not the real ones ...
<tumbleweed> doko: yeah, I know
<skaet> doko,  is there a link that shows an accurate picture?
<tumbleweed> skaet: doko's rebuild list, http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110816-oneiric.html
<skaet> thanks tumbleweed
<pitti> broder: we probably should upload it first, so that it's easier to test asterisk (debian sid has the same versions)
<doko> or I use https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ftbfs+-arm-porting-queue&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<doko> but now really away
<skaet> thanks doko
<pitti> erm, 97.000 tasks? that's four times as many as we even have source packages..
<pitti> oh, nevermind; /url command fail
<skaet> thanks doko, tumbleweed.  generally down though, but still a ways to go....
<skaet> doko, do you have anything additional to add about the toolchain and this, or was it mostly covered in cjwatson's summary?
<cjwatson> if he's away, I guess he doesn't :-)
<skaet> :)  indeed.   moving on then.
<cjwatson> I think it's impossible to reach 0 FTBFS by oneiric release now, but we can drive it down as far as we can and aim for 0 for P release
 * skaet nods
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team update - Daviey
 * skaet is hoping Daviey's conflict is resolved now?
<skaet> hmm....
<skaet> while we're waiting then, we may as well discuss GNOME 3.1.92
<skaet> [TOPIC] GNOME 3.1.92
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: GNOME 3.1.92
<skaet> ISSUE: available on 9/19
<skaet> GOAL: reducing risk of not having Beta 2 image on 9/22
<skaet> CONCERNS: ARM build time,  side-effects from fixes.
<skaet> pitti,  any further thoughts on how we can reduce risk?
<pitti> one strawman compromise was to only update the leaf applications on that Monday
<pitti> and upload git snapshots of the libraries (glib, gtk etc.) on Thursday or Friday
<pitti> the applications are fairly harmless, most of the changes are translation updates and a few bug fixes at that time
<pitti> and apps are reasonably confined to test them before uploading
<skaet> that should be more manageable.   What will the build time of those applications be like on the arm side?
<pitti> in theory the librarires might break something subtle, we test them as well, of course, but the risk is higher there
<pitti> skaet: the worst one is gtk+3.0, the others are fairly harmless (order of an hour, maybe two for large packages like gedit)
<pitti> gtk takes 5 h on arm
<pitti> we don't plan another webkit for that day :)
<skaet> Ok.  Will work with infinity and davidm on seeing what options there are with the builders.  That's better than the 4 day estimate I was dreading.  would we have the option to revert on monday if we encountered some breakage from the libraries over the weekend?
<pitti> nautilus is the next biggest one, takes 1 h
<pitti> skaet: yes
<pitti> we can revert gtk and glib in a turnaround of 7 h (prep, test, build, publish)
<pitti> (on arm)
<cjwatson> it would get a bit awkward if there were ABI changes though
<pitti> cjwatson: GNOME is in ABI/API freeze nwo
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> that helps
<pitti> if gtk/glib change API on Fri/Mon, we'll hold it back
<pitti> (or any other lib, for that matter -- hello libunity!)
<skaet> pitti,  seems workable then from the the Ubuntu side.    Will you be the coordination point for it with seb128 on vacation?
<pitti> skaet: yes, can do; I'll be off on Friday, but I'm happy to prepare the snapshots on Thursday, and package the important apps on Monday
<pitti> (and delegate/coordinate)
<skaet> charlie-tca, ScottK, stgraber, gilir - any concerns from your products?
 * ScottK reads backscroll
<charlie-tca> sure, there is always concern something like this will break the images
<skaet> pitti,  Thursday upload to correspond to beta freeze would be best if possible.
<charlie-tca> however, if this needs to be in the final images, it really should be in beta2, for the best testing and the best chance to catch the most serious bugs.
<pitti> ScottK: tl;dr: important lib snapshots on THursday, update only leaf GNOME apps on monday, no abi/api changes
<ScottK> I'd update the libs on Monday too.
<pitti> where "important libs" == glib and gtk mostly; the rest should either have trivial updates, or unimportant ones (I'll check the changes)
<ScottK> I think that it's slightly higher risk for beta2, but lowers the risk for final release.
<skaet> ScottK,  we can't build ARM in time then.
<pitti> git snapshots have a slightly higher risk, of course
<ScottK> True.
<pitti> but my jhbuild setup is workign, so I can test git easily
<pitti> skaet: well, we can, it just gets tight if we have to revert
<ScottK> The biggest issue, IMO, is that if there are issues and the upstream response is "but you weren't using the latest", then this will cost us about a week and a half.
<ScottK> You know the upstream better than I do, so I defer to you to evaluate the odds of that.
<pitti> three days worth of commits, with the weekend in between, shoudln't be too hard to review
<pitti> so we can still do another upload on Monday, if there was an important fix
<pitti> and then the delta will be very small
<ScottK> The only way it's going to affect Kubuntu is if it gets tangled up with some OOo issue.  So it won't affect Kubuntu in any way that won't be way worse on Ubuntu.
<pitti> right, you just have glib, not much else
<ScottK> We'll also need to be careful about uploading Qt or OOo on Monday or later.
<pitti> (I don't think there will be a gstreamer update)
<pitti> ScottK: that'd definitively be too late
<pitti> libo -> 3 day arm build
<pitti> or 2 or so
<ScottK> Qt 4.7.4 just hit today, so we'll need to keep an eye on it.
<ScottK> Qt is 4.
<ScottK> pitti: I expect that if there's any Qt 4.7.4 fallout it's more likely to be with unity-2d.  Upstream Qt gets a lot of testing with KDE, so you all will probably be the victims if there are any issues.
<skaet> pitti,  I'm not seeing any blockers raised,  so lets go ahead with your proposal.
<pitti> *nod* I think it was tested from the PPA already, so it shouldn't totally shipwreck
<ScottK> It was.
<skaet> I'll work with infinity, NCommander, davidm to see if we can get some more arm builders deployed next week.
<ScottK> skaet: I forgot to mention that we do still plan a qtwebkit update.  That's the one major infrastructure thing we have left.  That doens't effect unity-2d though.
<skaet> ScottK,  ack.  when's the ETA?
<ScottK> Likely over the weekend.
<skaet> coolio.  earlier the better right now.  :)
<ScottK> Yep.
<skaet> Any one else have comments, concerns?
<pitti> more hamsters for ppc builders
<skaet> :)
<skaet> yeah.
<cjwatson> If anyone is pondering things that require LP changes, it's worth mentioning that their lead time just dropped
<cjwatson> (The database is now on fastdowntime deployments, so we no longer have the monthly rollout thing)
<skaet> cjwatson, good point.
<skaet> thanks!
<skaet> and with that,   I think we're over so....
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Sep  9 16:35:03 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-09-15.00.moin.txt
<skaet> Thanks everyone.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<pitti> skaet: who will be pushing the archive/cdimage levers for alpha-2?
<charlie-tca> Thanks, skaet, for chairing.
<skaet> pitti,  infinity and NCommander
<skaet> may need some help from the european time zone if things get a bit problematic though.
<pitti> yeah, I'll be around
<skaet> thanks!
<pitti> but there should ideally be someone who coordinates the technical bits and fans them out
<pitti> i. e. owning the Process page, and delegating
<skaet> I'll own the process page
<skaet> this time around
<pitti> ok, cool
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyone!
<pitti> beer o'clock here
<skaet> probably easiest, since I suspect that NCommander and infinity may need to be fixing things.
<skaet> enjoy your weekend pitti
 * skaet heads down to plumbers conference. :)
<stgraber> skaet: sorry, had to run, just saw the hilight. Nope, no big concern for Edubuntu, we'll have the same problems as Ubuntu but I don't expect anything else.
<skaet> thanks stgraber
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-03
 * pitti waves hello
 * bryceh waves
<pitti> kees, cjwatson, stgraber, soren: meeting time?
<pitti> mdz sent his apologies
<pitti> bryce: hm, let's wait a couple of more minutes
<pitti> we moved the meeting back an hour again after a couple of months, that might have led to some confusion
<bryce> pitti, *nod*
<bryce> pitti, also, is a national holiday in the US today
<pitti> bryce: FWIW, I'm fine with both proposals; I guess I'll reply on the ML
<bryce> pitti, great
<bryce> pitti, ok I gotta go but will look forward to the replies on the list
<cjwatson> pitti: Um, sorry, I completely forgot and also was putting my daughter to bed
 * cjwatson makes the calendar reminder be five hours before in the hope that that way he'll notice
<stgraber> pitti: sorry, I was planning on being around but ended up being pretty far from a computer all day (not too bad considering it's a public holiday here...)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-04
<pitti> stgraber, cjwatson: no worries; we can discuss bryce's items on the ML, too
<m_3> o/
<zul> hi ho...its off to meeting we go
<SpamapS> \o\
<jamespage> o/
<hallyn> o/
<utlemming> o/
<arosales> hello
<arosales> o/
<adam_g> o/
<arosales> Daviey: are you ok with charing today's meeting?
<SpamapS> Ok it falls to me
<SpamapS> #startmeeting Server Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  4 16:05:54 2012 UTC.  The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:
<SpamapS> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<arosales> SpamapS: thanks :-)
<SpamapS> arosales update IRCComands for Quantal dev
<arosales> done
<SpamapS> arosales to follow up with hggdh and QA team on Server IRC contact
 * hggdh pops up & pays attention
<smoser> i poked  a bit on that. it really seems like test case issue/assumption
<hggdh> I agree. But the size grew, no matter what
<smoser> its too big because we're not getting the '-virtual' kernel installed.
<smoser> but i'm not sure what lead to that.
<smoser> well, its somehwere in the kernel transition
<smoser> but it really seemed like they did that right when i looked a bit.
<arosales> hggdh: hello, to confirm are you the correct contact for QA for our weekly meetings here?
<hggdh> there is no -virtual anymore. And there is the additional -extras package
<SpamapS> smoser: so, carry forward?
<smoser> anyway, at least a significant portion of "too big" is due to kernel.
<smoser> sure.
<smoser> carried.
<SpamapS> #action smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<hggdh> arosales: yes, indeed. Was on holiday until yesterday
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<SpamapS> arosales to update events to include CFP
<arosales> hggdh: as was I :-). Just wanted to confirm :-)
<SpamapS> I see thats done in the agenda :)
<SpamapS> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<arosales> SpamapS: I am also going to work on building out a wiki table that folks can update, but start with at least a reminder in the agenda.
<SpamapS> cool
<arosales> hggdh: thanks for all the server QA help :-)
<SpamapS> Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040033
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040033 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Quantal) "Fresh VM installs via preseeded oneiric isos sometimes fail with filesystem issues" [Critical,Triaged]
<SpamapS> unassigned
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025203 in quantum (Ubuntu) "Trying to overwrite '/etc/quantum/plugins/openvswitch/ovs_quantum_plugin.ini', which is also in package quantum-server" [High,Fix committed]
<SpamapS> zul: all good for next upload?
<zul> SpamapS:  working on it now
<SpamapS> hallyn: the qemu-kvm one seems like something maybe you'd be interested in?
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed]
<SpamapS> already discussed
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/995285
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 995285 in nova (Ubuntu Quantal) "if /etc/sudoers.d/nova_sudoers is removed, upgrades fail" [Low,Triaged]
<SpamapS> somebody should probably take ownership of that
<SpamapS> zul: ?
<SpamapS> adam_g: ?
<adam_g> SpamapS: gimme
<adam_g> ill assign myself
<SpamapS> werd
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024281 in python-glanceclient (Ubuntu) "Bug during installation. conflicts: python-glanceclient + glance-client" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<zul> daviey said he was going to do that
<SpamapS> adam_g: That sounds like 'Critical' ?
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044229 in maas (Ubuntu) "DHCP config doesn't get written unless an inhuman combination of scripts is run" [Undecided,New]
 * SpamapS feels like Ben Stein
<SpamapS> anyone? anyone?
<SpamapS> at least lets triage it before we put it on our release tracking
<adam_g> SpamapS: RE glanceclient, i was waiting on upstream to determine how they're going to handle the migration between clients. since it appears not high on their list, i'll see about pulling the trigger in our packaging and making the migration in ubuntu the default
<SpamapS> adam_g: sweet
<SpamapS> unless somebody wants to bring up any other bugs, we'll move on to BP's
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> actually I do want to bring something up about release tracking bug
<SpamapS> bring it
<jamespage> we are a little out of alignment with the report that the release team are using for tracking bugs
<jamespage> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<jamespage> there is a specific server section; I have been reviewing over the last few days
<jamespage> basically anything with a quantal task in the ubuntu-server packageset gets on that list
<SpamapS> That seems more natural
<jamespage> really a FYI for the moment; we need to figure out how to align the two things (which I will pickup)
<arosales> jamespage: perhaps integration with Ursinha new bug reports?
<SpamapS> #action jamespage to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports
<jamespage> maybe
<jamespage> ta
<arosales> I guess these bugs are more tag related
<arosales> jamespage: thanks for brining this up
<SpamapS> These bugs here all need addressing or they wouldn't have a quantal task
<SpamapS> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1027154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1027154 in maas (Ubuntu Quantal) "Unable to look up a node based on mac address" [High,Triaged]
<SpamapS> That probably needs an assignee
<SpamapS> http://launchpad.net/bugs/967410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967410 in samba (Ubuntu Quantal) "Windows clients cannot connect to shared printers " [High,Confirmed]
<SpamapS> that too
<jamespage> SpamapS, I'm on that - its not actually confirmed IMHO
<SpamapS> Ahh ok
<SpamapS> yeah I'm not going to worry about New's or less than High then
<zul> jamespage: <-- loves samba
 * jamespage falls off his chair
<SpamapS> a lot of the juju bugs there were opened as quantal tasks assuming juju would re-try for main in quantal so they can probably be 'wont fixed'
<SpamapS> shall we move on to BP's?
<jamespage> OK - as this is a new list that not everyone will have looked at please can I suggest people take a look
<jamespage> SpamapS, please do
<SpamapS> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<SpamapS> so it is remembered
<SpamapS> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
 * SpamapS does not know how to work the bot
<SpamapS> ok
<SpamapS> Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> Looks like we have gone into the red for servercloud-q blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-overview.html
<SpamapS> Yeah its time to start hammering on the postponed
<arosales> SpamapS: should we quickly go over the high/essentials in the red?
<SpamapS> do it now so people don't hold out hope :)
<SpamapS> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-hardening.html
<arosales> +1 be nice to let folks know what wont be landing
<SpamapS> That one in particular needs a lot
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bug-triage-review
<SpamapS> Ursinha: ^^ Perhaps some of these aren't going to happen?
<jamespage> sorry - that one is a little stalled ATM - Ursinha and I have been looking at bugs/fixes to the gravity reports to replace everything
<arosales> Daviey: zul: adam_g: openstack blueprints progressing ok?
<arosales> 27% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-qa
<zul> i think so...ill update them today if they need to
<arosales> 36% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-folsom
<arosales> 24% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-stable
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-deployment-on-arm
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-ha
<arosales> I know a lot of these have to land later in the cycle
<arosales> ARM on openstack looks to be coming along.
<arosales> SpamapS: I think we are going to work on trying to sync up with the juju team on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charms-release-policy
<arosales> utlemming: how is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-jenkins-cloud-builder progressing?
<utlemming> arosales: 100%
<arosales> I think the initial build server is live, correct?
<arosales> utlemming:  blueprint @ 44% though
<SpamapS> arosales: the release policy stuff is in progress.. I'm not worried about those last items getting done
<arosales> SpamapS: ok, thanks.
<utlemming> arosales: just changed
<arosales> utlemming: ok, thanks.
<arosales> SpamapS: you also feel ok about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices
<m_3> I think we nailed a lot of that week before last... somebody's gotta update the bp
<arosales> SpamapS: as well as https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<arosales> hallyn: you feel comfortable with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-lxc for beta1?
<m_3> arosales: biggest prob with that bp atm is a vague "unit tests for flagship charms"...
<SpamapS> arosales: for the most part yes. I need to sync back up with everybody on the unit tests, but I think its basically ready.
<arosales> SpamapS: ok
<hallyn> looking
<arosales> m_3: ya we just defined the flagship charms . .
<arosales>  m_3 a unit test is a unit test, correct
<hallyn> arosales: yes.  i will postpone user namespaces doc item
<arosales> or was that additional testing for those flagship charms
 * arosales will follow up with m_3 offline
<arosales> hallyn: thanks for taking a look
<arosales> and last one
<arosales> smoser: you feel ok with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-init-utils for beta2?
<arosales> I guess beta 2 gives us some more time.
<m_3> arosales: was embedded '/tests' for each charm
<arosales> m_3: gotcha, so getting some more tests for those "flagship" charms.
<arosales> perhaps just getting one test for a good charm would be a good example for that work item
<arosales> SpamapS: sorry to highjack, back to you.
<SpamapS> arosales: oh no, thank *you*
<m_3> arosales: will update accordingly.. .thanks
<SpamapS> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<SpamapS> Its September!
<smoser> arosales, willl look
<arosales> smoser: thanks
<arosales> m_3:  thanks :-)
<arosales> SpamapS: cloud open go ok?
<SpamapS> I will be talking about Juju at the San Gabriel Valley Linux Users Group, Sep 13 http://www.sgvlug.org/meetings/2012/09/13/cloning_sysadmins_with_the_cloud_and_juju
<SpamapS> CloudOpen was great
<SpamapS> attendance felt a bit light..
<arosales> hmm interesting
<arosales> jimbaker also said he got good interest at the UCAR Seminar
<SpamapS> but lots of smart people there
<SpamapS> discovered this: http://linux-ha.org/source-doc/assimilation/html/index.html .. which is cool
<SpamapS> Anyway, CFP's.. anybody?
<SpamapS> I think September may be light on events
<SpamapS> everybody heading back to school and all
<m_3> btw, linuxplumbers went off without a hitch... driven by juju!
<arosales> I think folks already submitted some papers for surge
<SpamapS> m_3: right!
<arosales> m_3: woot!
<arosales> m_3:  thanks for helping charm that and keep it going
<SpamapS> Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> oops
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
 * m_3 fleshed out some more "juju in production" best practices from it
<hggdh> \o
<hggdh> since I just returned from a long holiday, and am also with a sinus & throat infection, I do not have anything to show right now. But I DO accept questions :-)
<hggdh> ..
<arosales> get to feeling better hggdh
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Since I have been on conferences last week there isn't much I think to be reported here. smoser and me would discuss the cd size issue later on. Are there questions/issues others want to bring up?
<smb> ..
<SpamapS> smb: craving one of those california burritos yet? ;-)
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<smoser> smb, i'll ping you in a bit
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<smb> SpamapS, I did not have too many of them, so I am not to bad. :)
<SpamapS> oops sorry
<SpamapS> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<SpamapS> thought I had pasted that already :p
<SpamapS> going once
<SpamapS> going twice
<SpamapS> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Next Tuesday, September 11, 1600 UTC here in #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  4 16:53:10 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-04-16.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-04-16.05.html
<arosales> SpamapS: thanks for chair'ing
<jamespage> ta SpamapS
 * SpamapS bows
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  4 17:00:40 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<herton> o/
<cking> o/
<sconklin> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<jsalisbury> No update this week.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> one sec..
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || desktop-q-clean-old-kernels     || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the 3.5.0-13.14 Quantal kernel.  This upload
<ogasawara> contained some bug fixes which we felt we important for the Beta-1
<ogasawara> milestone.  This was also uploaded to the q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help
<ogasawara> facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in 12.04.  We welcome anyone to
<ogasawara> please install, test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Note that we are 2 days away from Beta-1.  I do not foresee any further
<ogasawara> uploads before Thursday.  At this point in time, any fixes will be
<ogasawara> re-targetted towards the Beta-2 milestone.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 6 - Beta 1 (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 20 - Beta 2 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 27 - Beta 2 (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-09-04 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 75 CVEs on our radar, with no added and two CVEs retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (September 04):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Preparation; 2 CVEs; (7 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty - In Preparation; 3 CVEs; (8 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Preparation; 2 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (67 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Preparation; 2 CVEs; 1 upstream stable release(s); (62 commits)
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix>  
<henrix> NOTE: this is the *last* Natty kernel being built.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  4 17:05:49 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-04-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-04-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-05
<smartboyhw> balloons WAKE UP!
<balloons> who's all about?
<balloons> besides you smartboyhw :-)
<smartboyhw> phillw
<smartboyhw> balloons: Strangely phillw thought he IS chair
<phillw> o/
<phillw> sorry, engrossed on -release channel
<balloons> ahh
<balloons> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep  5 14:05:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<balloons> Let's dive right into the topics for today shall we?
<smartboyhw> YEAH!
<phillw> +1
<smartboyhw> +1
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<smartboyhw> Sure wait
<balloons> none listed.. anything to follow-up on here?
<smartboyhw> balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
<smartboyhw> This one...
<balloons> smartboyhw, ahh yes
 * balloons goes to look
<smartboyhw> Also phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki progress update please:)
<smartboyhw> Not yet edited balloons, the time:(
<phillw> smartboyhw: work continues, the bug section has been tidyed up.
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> Thanks phillw
<balloons> smartboyhw, no status update on qa.ubuntu.com sadly
<smartboyhw> ...
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> Ok, as everyone knows it's beta 1 time
<balloons> The biggest news for this milestone is the dropping of alternate images for ubuntu
<smartboyhw> +1
<balloons> For the sake of the chat, I will supply the link to the discussion
<balloons> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html
<balloons> any further discussion on the change?
<smartboyhw> No!
<balloons> Alright, the beta testing itself is going well, although we've had some respins during the testing
<smartboyhw> Yep so many for Ubuntu Studio due to ubiquity
<balloons> the images were in quite a state of flux before the milestone
<balloons> so they are still being ironed out
<balloons> [TOPICS] Other topics
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other topics
 * balloons sighs
<smartboyhw> \o
<balloons> go ahead smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> #link http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2053135
<smartboyhw> balloons have a look at it, not good
<smartboyhw> Someone is having negative comments on the ISO QA Tracker
<smartboyhw> So how can we improve it, or should we ignore their feedback?
<smartboyhw> ,,
<smartboyhw> ..
 * smartboyhw sighs
<balloons> smartboyhw, I saw the thread
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> we can take the feedback and try and understand what's causing them issues
<smartboyhw> OK
<phillw> \o
<balloons> communication and responsiveness from the development team is an on-going thing.. We'll continue to try and fill in the gap for both sides
<balloons> thanks smartboyhw.
<balloons> phillw, go ahead
<smartboyhw> :)
<phillw> I'd like to put on record my thanks to stgraber for the work done on the tracker so bugs are carried over when respins occur.
<phillw> it has long been a thorn in our side.
<smartboyhw> +1
<balloons> sure looks nice doesn't it? :-)
<phillw> lubuntu has two show-stopper bugs :(
<phillw> bug http://launchpad.net/bugs/1041625
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041625 in xserver-xorg-video-openchrome (Ubuntu) "X not starting after install [openchrome]" [High,Triaged]
<phillw> bug http://launchpad.net/bugs/1040544
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040544 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer dialog does not come up" [Undecided,New]
<smartboyhw> Alright
<phillw> both are out of our hands.
<smartboyhw> Ubuntu Studio builds got a hell lot of respins for the last few days due to ubiquity being unstable. However the new build works fine
<balloons> phillw, likely will turn into respins?
<balloons> at least one is an upstream issue
<phillw> balloons: a respin is better than no release on those two.
<balloons> of course.. not sure the openchrome will be solved, but it looks like a fix can be had for it
<balloons> the other one is a dosey.. lars always manages to find those exotic bugs doesn't he?
<phillw> as it is killing both of the ppc iso's one of them really does need fixing
<balloons> +1 for lars
<smartboyhw> +1
<phillw> he's a good tester :)
<balloons> :-)
<balloons> anything else?
<smartboyhw> No
<phillw> oh yes, I forgot.
<smartboyhw> phillw: ?
<phillw> lubuntu now has an ARM iso (it arrived overnight)
<phillw> the arm community are looking after it.
<smartboyhw> Yep, sadly I don't have ARM
<balloons> phillw, yes, please share the story
<smartboyhw> :)
<phillw> I was asked if lubuntu would object to it. Some ARM machines cannot cope with full ubuntu install, so they wanted a light weight vriant
<phillw> I was on the release channel and
<phillw> so it seems lubuntu came to mind,
<phillw> it was a long term goal for lubuntu to have arm, but we lacked resources - these have now been provided by the arm community.
<phillw> ..
<balloons> thanks phillw
<smartboyhw> \o
<balloons> I think it's exciting, and glad to see if all coming together so quick
<balloons> smartboyhw, go ahead
<smartboyhw> Er, wait while I give the links
<smartboyhw> #link http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1999827
<smartboyhw> #link http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2052509
<smartboyhw> It is said that there will be a Ubuntu GNOME remix coming
<smartboyhw> And trying to get approval to become a official Ubuntu distro
<phillw> Gubuntu?
<smartboyhw> phillw: Possibly GNOMEbuntu
<smartboyhw> So any comments on that?
<phillw> i don't use gnome, so none from me.
<smartboyhw> OK.
<balloons> smartboyhw, it's always exciting to see new ideas come to life.. I wish the flavor the best
<smartboyhw> OK
<balloons> anything further?
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> No
<balloons> if not this meeting's a wrap :-)
<smartboyhw> ;-)
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep  5 14:32:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-05-14.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-05-14.05.html
<smartboyhw> Thanks balloons
<balloons> thanks phillw and smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Thanks phillw
<phillw> balloons: thanks for chairing
<smartboyhw> balloons: Talk in #ubuntu-testing shall we
<ogra_> foo
<ogra_> (out new ports architecture)
<ogra_> *our
 * slangasek waves
<stokachu> o/
<cjwatson> smartboyhw: Ubuntu Studio has hardly had any respins.  20120903 and 20120905 as far as I can see.
<cjwatson> Just to be factual about it ...
<smartboyhw> cjwatson: But then ubiquity fails quite harshly. Anyway, moving on...
<cjwatson> You said "a hell lot of respins" - just saying.
<cjwatson> One respin isn't a lot. :-)
<smartboyhw> That IS a lot
<xnox> smartboyhw: for ISO that will be released in 1.5 years time....?!
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep  5 15:03:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stokachu removes socks
<slangasek> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> ev jodh bdmurray xnox doko ogra stgraber slangasek barry stokachu cjwatson infinity
<ev> I lose.
<ev> - Finally got to the bottom of our retracer problems. Cassandra and its
<ev>   transport layer, Thrift, do not like large column values. The limit here is
<ev>   currently about 16MB. So if we encounter a value larger than that, like we
<ev>   did with lyx's hundred megabyte stacktrace (!), we break it apart into
<ev>   separate numbered columns. Added some tooling to better diagnose these sorts
<ev>   of problems in the future.
<ev> - Started counting the number of reports we receive for the combinations of
<ev>   (package, release, version) so that we can adapt the average errors per day
<ev>   graph on the front page to the form selection. Right now it just shows lines
<ev>   for all of 12.04 and all of 12.10.
<ev> - Investigated efficient solutions to recording the First seen and Last seen
<ev>   versions for each problem on a per-release level. Committed and RT filed.
<ev> - Finally finished off the bug creation branch of lp:errors and merged it in.
<ev>   Once this is landed on production, you'll see a "Create" link wherever you
<ev>   currently see a blank space in the bug column of the most common problems
<ev>   table. This asynchronously talks to Launchpad, creates a bug for the package
<ev>   in question, and subscribes you to it. It also records it in Cassandra so
<ev>   that if we do eventually see a bug report from Apport, we can just
<ev>   programmatically dup it to the errors.ubuntu.com created one.
<ev>   
<ev>   This functionality *should* supersede the daisy backend to apport's
<ev>   crash-digger. Time will tell if this is the right solution. It also is the
<ev>   foundational piece for building a mapping between bug numbers and fixed
<ev>   binary packages so that we can feed users updates that purport to fix the
<ev>   issue they just encountered.
<ev> - Still waiting on https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=55322
<ev>   with lots of things queued up behind it. It's near the top of the chart, but
<ev>   I'm growing concerned about just how much stuff is going to land right
<ev>   behind it.
<ev>   https://portal.admin.canonical.com/ruins?team=losa
<ev> (done)
<doko> that was short ...
<ev> you're welcome
<cjwatson> jodh is on holiday IIRC
<cjwatson> (He mailed his update)
<cjwatson> * blueprints
<cjwatson>   - foundations-q-session-management:
<cjwatson>     - no progress (but I actually don't have any work items on this one ;-)
<cjwatson>   - desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements
<cjwatson>     - not started: still awaiting desktop teams precise requirements.
<cjwatson>   - foundations-q-upstart-service-readiness
<cjwatson>     - no recent progress: the 2 outstanding work items are man page updates.
<cjwatson>    - foundations-q-upstart-roadmap
<cjwatson>      - no recent progress.
<cjwatson>    - foundations-q-event-based-initramfs:
<cjwatson>      - Fixed EventOperator collapsing code to serialise start/stop on.
<cjwatson>      - Implemented cross re-exec logger handling.
<cjwatson>      - Moved to using branch lp:~upstart-devel/upstart/stateful-reexec.
<cjwatson>      - Got working Ubuntu build in ppa:jamesodhunt/upstart-testing.
<cjwatson>      - Publicised build on ubuntu-devel.
<cjwatson> ^- jodh's update
<cjwatson> bdmurray: around?
<bdmurray> cjwatson: shall I start or is there more from jodh?
<bdmurray> ah yes!
<bdmurray> holidaysÂ²
<bdmurray> merge proposal https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/apport/pre-release-freeze/+merge/122747
<bdmurray> uploaded apport bug fix for bug 917903 regarding examining VarLogDistupgradeApttermlog attachments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 917903 in apport (Ubuntu) "ubuntu general hook doesn't know how to read .gz files" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917903
<bdmurray> uploaded grub2 fixing bug 919956
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 919956 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Apport hook breaks with Pyhton2 due to non-ASCII character" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919956
<bdmurray> discussion with ev regarding package installation failures
<bdmurray> sorted out a failed upgrade to quantal
<bdmurray> reported bugs 1043867, 1043862, 1043859
<bdmurray> discussion regarding bug reporting information on the ubuntu qa tracker
<bdmurray> tested kernels for audio bug 1043538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043862 in evolution (Ubuntu) "gsettings-data-convert crashed with signal 5 in g_settings_schema_get_value()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043862
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1043859 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043449 in postgresql-9.1 (Ubuntu Quantal) "duplicate for #1043867 package postgresql-client-9.1 9.1.5-1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/postgresql/9.1/man/man1/pg_basebackup.1.gz', which is also in package postgresql-9.1 9.1.5-0ubuntu12.04" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043449
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043538 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "[0831CTO, Conexant CX20585, Pink Mic, Right] No sound at all" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043538
<bdmurray> done
<xnox> * This week I have spend breaking & fixing ubiquity and dependencies.
<xnox>   Causing respins for the milestone. In retrospect, more testing & code
<xnox>   review & landing the thursday upload later maybe would have been
<xnox>   better, maybe not.
<xnox> * Trianging loads of interesting bugs from jibel with respect to new & existing
<xnox>   ubiquity behaviour with various options. Some fixed, some to fix
<xnox>   after beta1.
<xnox> * Had little progress finishing manual LVM & Crypt, due to above.
<xnox> * Specs & workitems tracker:
<xnox>   - postponed low priority spec foundations-q-degraded-hw-notification
<xnox>   - postponed foundations-q-event-based-initramfs. Upstart stateful
<xnox>   re-exec is nearing completion, the implementation for the event
<xnox>   based initramfs has not started and will not be landing in
<xnox>   quantal. But this is work to be done during late quantal & early
<xnox>   Rancid Raccoon. Note two views:
<slangasek> ev: bah, still waiting on the django ticket?  any idea why it's held up now?
<xnox>   http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/u/xnox.html (new)
<xnox>   http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/u/dmitrij.ledkov.html (old)
<xnox>   Filed http://pad.lv/1045548 asking to merge the two.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045548 in work-items-tracker "launchpad id rename confused status.ubuntu.com" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> * Still Blocked: Geoname lookup still not deployed. See RT #55554
<ev> slangasek: *shrugs*
<slangasek> ev: as for "how much stuff is going to land right behind it", perhaps you could ask for a staged roll-out, and have them only deploy the subsequent commits in batches of 100? ;)
<ev> lol
<stgraber> ;)
<xnox> ev: every friday to excercise canonistack deployments.
<doko> - OpenJDK week ...
<doko> - update both openjdk-6 and openjdk-7 to recent release
<doko> - some bug triage, but getting demotivated by 475 reports
<doko> - debug and fix jamvm for openjdk-7
<doko> - package Avian, another jvm for x86, ARM and powerpc
<doko> - started icedtea-web update and bug triage
<doko> - look at webkit build failure on ARM with bzoltan
<ogra_> done ?
<doko> yes
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * fix nux, compiz and unity for GLES (over and over and over...)
<ogra_> * make beta work on arm
<ogra_> * test arm beta images
<ogra_> * updated usb-imagewriter (dd frontend in universe for writing arm images to SD) from hal to udisks (upload pending)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * bug 1028905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<ogra_>  * bug 1045855
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045855 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "usb keyboard doesn't work during installation of ubuntu-server on panda" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045855
<ogra_>  * bug 1045741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045741 in firefox (Ubuntu) "since the switch to unity 3D and the GLES driver by default firefox on the pandaboard reders extremely slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045741
<ogra_>  * bug 1045491
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045491 in pvr-omap4 (Ubuntu Quantal) "Moving mouse messes up the desktop" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045491
<ogra_>  * decide if the bootpartition on the pandas shouldnt be a hidden part instead of being automounted on the desktop (we used to hide it in the past)
<ogra_>  * make a decision if we want to show the source device in the partitioner on pandas (bug 1042930)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042930 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "partition size error during install of Quantal on Panda board" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042930
<ogra_>  * inspect the framebuffer and keyboard issues with d-i on server images
<ogra_>  * prepare and hold a "panda install howto" Google OnAir session
<ogra_>  * update arm installation wikipages
<ogra_> ..
<stgraber>  - Was at Linux Plumbers last week (Tuesday -> Friday)
<stgraber>  - Monday was a public holiday (labour day)
<stgraber>  - Changed machine (Lenovo X230) and moved to 12.10 (only very annoying issue is bug 1021471)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021471 in linux (Ubuntu) "clone() hang when creating new network namespace (dmesg show unregister_netdevice: waiting for lo to become free. Usage count = 2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021471
<stgraber>  - Container
<stgraber>    - Pushed all the Ubuntu delta in a git branch for merging upstream (100 commits)
<stgraber>    - Started looking at getting the rest of our custom scripts and changes upstream too
<stgraber>  - Release
<stgraber>    - Started testing/fixing Edubuntu for 12.10 beta 1
<stgraber>    - Updated post-image-to-tracker in ubuntu-archive-tools to support adding a note to builds
<stgraber>    - Updated post-qa on cdimage to add a warning in the note field of oversized builds
<stgraber>  - TODO
<stgraber>    - 12.10 beta 1 release
<stgraber>    - Some more LXC work based on notes from Plumbers
<stgraber>    - Some ISO tracker work
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> ogra_: +1 for hiding the boot partition from the desktop on Panda
<ogra_> k
<slangasek> stgraber: btw, can you send a trip report to the list about Plumbers?
<ogra_> need to see if we have dosfstools available to set a label
<ogra_> (else i need to pull it into flash-kernel-installer)
<slangasek>  * short week due to labor day
<slangasek>  * not nearly as much progress on XDG_RUNTIME_DIR as intended; mountall support is in the queue, but the new PAM module is not uploaded yet
<slangasek>  * making some progress on multiarch SRU reviews: libart-lgpl accepted, libgnome being reviewed
<slangasek>  * reviewing upstart stateful re-exec branch, helping polish for upstream merge
<slangasek>  * working on getting Red Hat shim packaged, for our first-stage non-GPL SB bootloader
<slangasek>  * Panda board Google OnAir session, tomorrow at 1400 UTC
<slangasek>  * management sprint in Portland next week, Tue-Thu; expect me to be scarce
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> ogra_: hmm, how is the partition being created?  parted/partman should certainly be able to set a label
<stgraber> slangasek: yep, meant to reply to Seth's e-mail to cover the sessions that Stefan and he didn't cover already. Will do that later today
<slangasek> stgraber: ta
<xnox> ogra_: wasn't there a magic hidden file you can touch to make $desktop not mount/show that partition
<barry> short week due to labor day.  gwibber, gwibber, and more gwibber.  blueprints:
<barry> foundations-q-python-version - all uncompleted work is postponed
<barry> foundations-q-udd - unmilestoned
<barry> foundations-q-python33 - nothing needed changing
<barry> started working on updating python3 spreadsheet and evaluating work to be done for r-cycle
<barry> done.
<cjwatson> partman-basicfilesystems doesn't appear to be hooked up to set labels on FAT right now
<ogra_> slangasek, i want it to be visible until flash-kernel-installer is run and then hide it on the actual installed system ... we used to do that by setting the label to SERVICE001 or some such (have tto check udisk rules for hidden names)
<cjwatson> It probably wouldn't be that hard to hack into commit.d/format_basicfilesystems
<slangasek> ogra_: I don't see any reason to make it visible even in the beginning
<stokachu> * need to verify a couple sru's
<ogra_> xnox, only on a per user base
<xnox> ok.
<ogra_> slangasek, so the user can edit the bootargs after writing the SD
<slangasek> it's an internal detail of the system, I don't think users should be playing with it from the desktop
<stokachu> * customer reported bugs are taking priority this week, starting to see an increase which could mean more customers or more bugs :\
<stokachu> done
<slangasek> ogra_: don't they have a place to do this under /etc/default now?
<ogra_> after install we want that tro be done through flash-kernel and not directly ... before the user should eb able to edit the txt file to i.e. add a serial console entry
<ogra_> oh, i havent heard of that
<cjwatson> Short week; got back from holiday on Monday.
<cjwatson> Cleaned up a good fraction of the outstanding ~ubuntu-archive bugs.
<cjwatson> Pushed the libglew1.8 and libtiff5 transitions some of the way up the hill, prompted by various bits of NBS.
<cjwatson> Fixed what I believe was the last major regression from the live-build apocalypse, namely a failure of livecd-rootfs to put iso-hybrid images in the right place.
<cjwatson> Fixed a regression in my python-debian Python 3 port (Debian bug 686731).
<ubottu> Debian bug 686731 in python-debian "edos-builddebcheck: Stopped working" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/686731
<cjwatson> Working on packaging GRUB 2.00, initially for Debian experimental but with the intention of requesting a feature freeze exception for 12.10.  Good news: it builds.  Bad news: no idea whether it works.
<cjwatson> Various bits of assistance with 12.10 beta-1 preparation, e.g. bug 987418.  Frustrated at abject slowness of current desktop in kvm; makes it very difficult to work on installer bugs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987418 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "manual partitioner: /dev/sdb (installation media) selected by default as device for boot loader installation" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987418
<ogra_> i know that certain labels get ignored on a udev level though
<cjwatson> Pushed a Launchpad branch which moves bug closure when accepting packages into an asynchronous job, eliminating timeouts.  There's a bit more work to do on this before it lands.
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> ogra_: heard of that> I thought you implemented it! :)
<slangasek> (or were going to implement it)
<ogra_> slangasek, /etc/default for hiding partitions from udsisk ?
<slangasek> no, for letting users edit their boot arguments
<ogra_> surely not :)
<ogra_> slangasek, *before* installing the first partitioon of the SD needs to be visible for this
<xnox> cjwatson: i'd love to try grub 2.00 to unlock luks =) would make the world better
<ogra_> after installing (once it turned into a "boot rom" we want to hide it
<slangasek> ogra_: I don't agree, I think this is a bad interface
<cjwatson> Surely boot arguments should be done by preseeding the installer or something, not by expecting users to poke around manually
<slangasek> what cjwatson said
<xnox> well you can't =)
<ogra_> hmm, k, that will require a ton of code to teach d-i about applying preseed options to u-boot setups then
<xnox> becuase the most common change is boot into serial console or the screen. If you don't have one or the other, there is no way to change it on the panda
<cjwatson> xnox: LUKS is indeed among the important features it brings
<cjwatson> ogra_: But it would parallel what's done for GRUB, rather than being completely different
<xnox> s/screen/graphical display/
<stokachu> if i was a panda, what name would i be
<slangasek> ogra_: this may not be high enough priority to get it all fixed this cycle, but I think you should be working towards a correct design rather than spending cycles on making the partition visible in the beginning and hidden later
<ogra_> cjwatson, but it wont help :)
<ogra_> how would i add preseed args ?
<ogra_> either by ediuting the preseed.cfg on the actual installer partition ... or by changing bootargs, no ?
<ogra_> i'm talking about the image before any installer runs or anything
<slangasek> are you talking about how users would edit the boot partition when the SD card is inserted into a different machine than the install target?
<ogra_> i.e. if i want to turn a normal d-i install into a serial one ... i need to set console= ...
<ogra_> i'm talking about dd'ing the image to an SD, then re-plugging the SD and editing the txt file that holds the bootarg line to change something
<xnox> slangasek: download .img from ubuntu.com; write it into sd card; re-instert sd card -> change bootargs to serial; put sd-card into panda, hook up serial => install.
<xnox> this is how I installed it.
<ogra_> so i can add preseed options etc
<ogra_> right
<xnox> after the install the sd-card became a boot floppy and no longer can serve the purpose of installing anything.
<ogra_> the only prob here is that the partition is still visible *after* installation (and gets atuomounted)
<slangasek> xnox: well, I know how to install a panda, but it didn't occur to me that someone doing this would care about the default visibility of the boot partition on their x86 desktop :)
<xnox> so it's /boot shouldn't show up.
<ogra_> i would only liuke to fix the "after install" part
<ogra_> xnox, well, its no /boot thats the point
<cjwatson> If there's no way to edit installer boot arguments, I'd speculate that new UI in the installer would be better than expecting people to do it by hand
<slangasek> ok, so that makes more sense - sorry for misunderstanding
<ogra_> ist the equivalent of a BIOS on SD
<slangasek> cjwatson: I think this is about setting boot arguments /for booting the installer/
<xnox> slangasek: the point is that on the x86 desktop the "internal" partitions don't show up already.
<slangasek> anyway, let's move on
<cjwatson> Ah
<slangasek> #topic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> slangasek has it :)
<stokachu> multi-arch SRUS!
<stokachu> thats all im gonna say
<slangasek> ogra_: right - sorry for misunderstanding initially
<slangasek> stokachu: working on it!
<stokachu> slangasek: lol thank you :D
<ogra_> well, i probably explained it not good enough :)
<ogra_> (since everyone misunderstood)
<stokachu> slangasek: i did get your update to libart for precise, ill need to verify that this week
<bdmurray> a new one that came in recently is bug 1045579
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045579 in software-properties (Ubuntu Quantal) "software-properties-gtk makes a change resulting in a conf file prompt on upgrade that's unnecessary" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045579
<bdmurray> I'm happy to work on it, I'm just not positive of the best way of fixing this.
<slangasek> bdmurray: the issue seems to be that the editor isn't using the right case for the option name, leading to a conffile prompt, yes?
<bdmurray> slangasek: correct it writes it as prompt instead of Prompt
<slangasek> bdmurray: so a) fix software-properties to set the option correctly, b) add a Breaks: from ubuntu-release-upgrader-core to older versions of software-properties that don't include this fix, c) include a one-time fix-up in the preinst of ubuntu-release-upgrader-core that fixes the case of any entry in the file on disk
<bdmurray> slangasek: got it thanks
<slangasek> bdmurray: how are we doing on our rls-q-tracking bugs?
<bdmurray> bug 1045588 was tagged rls-q-incoming and I think the tag should just be removed as this has always been the case afaik
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045588 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release upgrader asks to remove the last known working kernel" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045588
<slangasek> really?  I didn't think any kernels were getting auto-removed
<bdmurray> I believe that during a dist-upgrade the kernel from the old distribution will be in the removal list
<slangasek> marked rls-q-notfixing
<bdmurray> and that is what micah is referring to
<slangasek> however, it is a bug, and ties in to infinity's spec regarding proper kernel autoremoval, so assigning to him
<slangasek> (for "later")
<bdmurray> we have quite a few bugs in the rls-q-tracking list
<bdmurray> one bug 1017001 is critical and I wonder if it still should be
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<slangasek> we can probably drop it to high
<slangasek> it was 'critical' as a flag that it might make 12.04.1 blow up, and it didn't
<bdmurray> we have a test case though and are in a position to fix it. correct?
<slangasek> we don't have a reduced test case
<slangasek> anyway, it's still assigned to infinity (for precise), he should be working on it when his kidneys recover from Plumbers
<slangasek> stgraber, ogra_, xnox: you all have high-importance bugs on that list; are they on your radar?
<slangasek> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<ogra_> yes
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<slangasek> hmph
<slangasek> bug #946406 #1027648 #1037757 #154086 #984276 #1015567 #974284
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946406 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "suspect race condition Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946406
<slangasek> bug #1027648 bug #1037757 bug #154086 bug #984276 bug #1015567 bug #974284
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1027648 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1037757 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Quantal) "flash-kernel-installer is not creating an initial preEnv.txt during installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1037757
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 154086 in partman-auto-lvm (Ubuntu Quantal) "Installing to HDD with previous ubuntu fails to create fresh LVM claiming group already in use" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154086
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015567 in dpkg (Ubuntu Quantal) "upgrade failed: mixed non-coinstallable and coinstallable package instances present" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015567
<xnox> yes. working more at ubiquity/partman. the dpkg one I was meant to look at together with infinity, but that slipped.
<slangasek> ok
 * ogra_ just closed 1037757
<ogra_> missed to close it from changelog
<slangasek> ogra_: ah, hurray :)
<slangasek> stgraber: how about your bugs from that list? :)
<slangasek> 946406, 974284
<stgraber> slangasek: I just got rid of one of them and dhclient is on my todo
<cjwatson> shall I take that coreutils sort -u bug?  it appears to have upstream patches
<slangasek> stgraber: got rid of by fixing, or by unassigning yourself? ;)
<stgraber> slangasek: the race condition is well, a race condition... need to spend some more time on it...
<stgraber> slangasek: I had an ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu bug on that list which got fixed but not closed
<slangasek> stgraber: ah, ok
<slangasek> cjwatson: please
<cjwatson> slangasek: can I do your TIL merge at the same time? :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: feel free :)
<cjwatson> seeing as you did the NMU I suspect our delta is about to shrink
 * cjwatson wonders why avahi is on the foundations list
<slangasek> did I?  I guess it should be down to just the gettext:any build-dep now
<slangasek> because $reason
<slangasek> avahi is the networky bits as much as anything
<ogra_> you can use it without desktop :)
<cjwatson> I guess
<slangasek> bug #433897 has a proposed fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433897 in console-setup (Ubuntu Quantal) "at boot, the font is not set by the upstart job" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433897
<slangasek> bdmurray: would it make sense / be much trouble to highlight linked branches on the rls-q-tracking report?
<cjwatson> 433897> I'm very wary, will need to think about it
<cjwatson> I do know there's a problem but the races here are insanely delicate
<slangasek> cjwatson: ack
<slangasek> not suggesting a blind upload :)
<slangasek> do you want me to assign that one to you?
<cjwatson> And I don't think I buy the initramfs-tools proposal
<cjwatson> Yeah
<bdmurray> slangasek: I think it, and patches, makes sense.  If we don't check the branch package it should be easy.
<slangasek> oh, also, should it even be on our list?  this seems to have bypassed the nomination process by virtue of a community member targeting it to quantal
<cjwatson> 433897 you mean?  we ought to fix it really, it's foundations-induced damage and it annoys a lot of people
<cjwatson> even if it bypassed the process
<slangasek> bdmurray: if it's easy to do, I think that'd be great to have
<bdmurray> slangasek: bryce targetted it I believe
<slangasek> cjwatson: I agree, just wanted to make sure we explicitly evaluated
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah, then we shall harrass him about not following the process :)
<slangasek> I think that's probably as much time as it's useful to spend on that list for today, then
<bdmurray> next week we should visit the team assigned ones then
<slangasek> bdmurray: unless there are any in particular that you think have stagnated and warrant a call-out right now?
<slangasek> bdmurray: right, I'm actually going through and un-assigning the team from these so they'll all show as unassigned instead of being a mix
<bdmurray> slangasek: nothing to call-out
<slangasek> (so we can review the whole set of unassigned ones, in that case)
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok, cool - thanks
<slangasek> #topic AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep  5 16:02:07 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-05-15.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-05-15.03.html
<slangasek> clearly not :)
<slangasek> thanks, guys
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<xnox> thanks.
<ogra_> thx
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-06
<tumbleweed> anyone up for a MOTU meeting?
<coolbhavi> o/
<tumbleweed> just the two of us? oh well, this should be quick
<tumbleweed> #startmeeting weekly MOTU meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  6 16:09:16 2012 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | weekly MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<tumbleweed> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, I missed the previous meeting though I have news from DAT side
<tumbleweed> #topic review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | weekly MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:  review of previous action items
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2012-08-23
<tumbleweed> hrm, there were none
<tumbleweed> #topic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | weekly MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
<coolbhavi> yes
<tumbleweed> micahg: around?
<tumbleweed> oh, well, if he turns up...
<tumbleweed> #topic Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | weekly MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam
<tumbleweed> coolbhavi?
<micahg> o/
<tumbleweed> we can come back to that, after this
<dholbach> I'm here too :)
<dholbach> not many news from the DAT, business as usual :)
<coolbhavi> yep tumbleweed there was one of action items this UDS to give a session on DAT this UOW/UDW I took a session this UDW reg the same logs are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1208/DevAdvisoryTeam
<coolbhavi> apart from that no other news
<dholbach> ah yes, good job coolbhavi
<tumbleweed> thanks
<tumbleweed> #topic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | weekly MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
<tumbleweed> micahg: all yours
<micahg> nothing new yet
<micahg> well, xnox fixed the tracker a little more to get us down to ~25 packages
<tumbleweed> that sounds doable, with some effort
<xnox> there are decisions to be made. There is the whole stack for working with Palm phones (original Palm)
<xnox> if we drop that, porting the rest should be easy
<micahg> yeah, I probably won't be able to do much with it until the end of the month though, so if someone else wans to, feel free
<xnox> was it like half of those 25 packages?
<micahg> xnox: have you spoken with Debian at all?
<xnox> micahg: that is the next action to do
<tumbleweed> xnox: you taking an action for that?
<xnox> sure =)
<tumbleweed> what's the plam stack called?
<micahg> gpe*
<tumbleweed> #action xnox to speak to the debian gpe maintainers about dropping it (it depends on sqlite)
<meetingology> ACTION: xnox to speak to the debian gpe maintainers about dropping it (it depends on sqlite)
<tumbleweed> moving on
<tumbleweed> #topic Review UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | weekly MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<dholbach> I had a chat with a couple of people in #ubuntu-devel and wrote about it to the mailing list
<tumbleweed> anything this week? I think not?
<tumbleweed> oh, yes saw that
<dholbach> there were concerns that some fixes would better be sent to Debian
<xnox> yeah.
<xnox> I added fontfixing & seems like some/most have been sponsored now.
<dholbach> and also that the sponsoring queue might fill up with trivial fixes, which I feel is a lesser issue
<dholbach> thanks xnox!
<xnox> Do we need to check remaining  $font packages to see if they are ok or not?
<dholbach> I wrote an article for the packaging guide to make it easier to make a decision where a specific bug fix should go
<tumbleweed> have we seen a reasonable influx since UDW?
<micahg> xnox: well, someone should probably :), perhaps an archive scan?
<dholbach> I hope that will help solve the issue of debian fixes going to ubuntu
<tumbleweed> I've certainly noticed some trivial things in the queue that could have come from UDW
<dholbach> tumbleweed, yes - there's a lot of interest - next week I hope to start hangout sessions, etc to help get more people involved
<xnox> micahg: meh. Grep Contents, install it and either run font-config over them & launch some app =)
<micahg> xnox: is the problem only visible at run time, or should a regex detect it? (think lintian lab scan)
<dholbach> that's all I have for now
<tumbleweed> that's all we have on the agenda
<tumbleweed> #topic any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | weekly MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:  any other business?
<dholbach> not from me
<coolbhavi> dholbach, timings of the hangout please? I'd love to join :)
<dholbach> coolbhavi, not sure yet, but I'll let you know :)
<xnox> micahg: lintian can, not sure if it already does.
<coolbhavi> dholbach, sure thanks!
<tumbleweed> ok, let's wind this up
<tumbleweed> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  6 16:26:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-16.09.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-16.09.html
<tumbleweed> thanks everyone
<coolbhavi> thanks tumbleweed
<dholbach> thanks :)
 * coolbhavi hopes to start the motu-school sessions again but got busy in arb-duties
<coolbhavi> is the cc meeting now?
<dholbach> yep
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> who do we have here from CC and ARB?
<czajkowski> pleia2: beuno ping
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: ping
<Gwaihir> o/
<czajkowski> so we have 3 CC so far
<coolbhavi> dholbach, I am here from the ARB
 * beuno is otp and will be for a while
<coolbhavi> wendar, ping
<dholbach> highvoltage, stgraber: around?
<wendar> \o
<dholbach> hey :)
<dholbach> let's get started then :)
<coolbhavi> hey wendar :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  6 17:02:23 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<dholbach> #topic Meet-Up with the ARB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Meet-Up with the ARB
<dholbach> how are you all doing? :)
<wendar> great, thanks :)
<coolbhavi> I am fine dholbach :) how about you?
<czajkowski> Thanks for coming folks
<dholbach> doing well, thanks :)
<dholbach> how is the restaffing of the ARB going?
<highvoltage> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey highvoltage
<dholbach> I saw that Alessio volunteered
<highvoltage> (my attention span is really chopped up today)
<highvoltage> is this the CC catch-up with the ARB?
<dholbach> yes
<czajkowski> highvoltage: yup
<highvoltage> great.
<czajkowski> wendar: so how are things in the ARB going?
<dholbach> highvoltage, coolbhavi: I guess you can answer the questions too :)
<czajkowski> anyone can
<czajkowski> true
<czajkowski> sorry
<highvoltage> well, technically I resigned from the ARB a few weeks back and just opportunistically doing a little when I have a chance
<highvoltage> (and keeping up with the list)
<dholbach> how are you dealing with the aftermath of the app showdown?
<highvoltage> but I'm not sure I'm the best person to comment on it. the arb is kind of complicated :)
<dholbach> I saw a lot of activity in the last few weeks on the mailing list
<coolbhavi> dholbach, thanks! we are just going through the queue as a backdrop of successful app showdown :)
<czajkowski> highvoltage: in what way, I note this is the 2nd meeting of the ARB as we got to meet ye last cycle, so have things changed? improved or?
<dholbach> it was successful indeed :)
<wendar> I can vouch for the fact that coolbhavi has been amazing, reviewing apps at a record pace
<highvoltage> dholbach: indeed, there's been a lot of progress, I believe the majority of the apps had received feedback on them, a few of them have been published and I believe the majority of them still needs to be, but I think that's going ok
<wendar> and highvoltage managed 50 in a couple of weeks, which was super-human
<coolbhavi> thanks wendar :)
 * highvoltage thought it was more than that :)
<wendar> highvoltage: 75? it was outrageous anyway
<coolbhavi> highvoltage, 53 votes as per the stats go :)
<highvoltage> I think it was around 90 iirc. being at debconf helped :)
<dholbach> awesome :)
<wendar> I do know that when I was working full-time on the queue in Feb and March, I was able to battle it down to only 20 apps in the queue
<wendar> but, my current job leaves me very little time for open source work, so I'm not much help anymore
<dholbach> did recent apps get a bit easier to review?
<wendar> yes, there have been some new tools put in place that help
<coolbhavi> btw I am trying to clear the amount of apps which have +3 votes by uploading them whenever I find time
<wendar> and many of the App Showdown submissions were cookie-cutter Quickly apps
<wendar> coolbhavi: thanks!
 * dholbach likes cookie cutters :)
<wendar> yup, they simplify many things
<coolbhavi> wendar, +1 again quickly is quick to review :)
<dholbach> how was the response for the call for nominations?
<wendar> one, who looks like a great candidate
 * coolbhavi saw one application on the list from alessio
<highvoltage> dholbach: re apps being easier to review, the fixes in quickly helped a lot. it would've been awesome if quickly was fixed before the showdown :)
<czajkowski> wendar: do you think it'll be easy to fill the roles, are more people expiring ?
<dholbach> maybe it'd make sense to reach out to some arb helpers?
<wendar> unfortunately, I don't think it will be, and we really need the help
<wendar> with the round of expiring memberships on Sept 13, we'll be down to 2 members
<czajkowski> why do you think it'll be hard?
<czajkowski> the work load? or is the board big enough?
<wendar> with the one new candidate, that'll be 3, which is the bare minimum needed to approve an app (and means every member has to vote on every app)
<coolbhavi> dholbach, seeing the response I think reaching out to helpers might be a good thing to do
<dholbach> and maybe blog about it again?
<czajkowski> wendar: doesn;t leave much for wiggle room
<wendar> dholbach: yes, new helpers would be good, or figuring out where the helpers we had during the App Showdown went?
<coolbhavi> czajkowski, and the deadline was sept 5th IIRC
<dholbach> maybe it'd make sense to mail them?
<wendar> dholbach: I'm afraid we burned them out, or they got discouraged when they put in all that work preparing apps that then blocked on voting
<coolbhavi> for new nominations
<dholbach> is anyone from the expiring ARB members planning to come back again?
<wendar> czajkowski: yes, I think the workload is daunting right now
<czajkowski> wendar: so if you take away the app contest, how many apps would you normaly have?
<coolbhavi> wendar, +1
<wendar> czajkowski: of course, spreading that out over more members helps, but it's tough to recruit for such a workload
<czajkowski> did the ARB know the app contest was happening, so ye could plan ?
<dholbach> maybe the new members could try to reach out to the app developer community for some help with the reviews?
<wendar> dholbach: ajmitch will return. I'm not an Ubuntu Developer yet, so not qualified. (I'm one of the people who encouraged making UD a requirement, because I think it really should be)
<dholbach> that makes it harder
<coolbhavi> czajkowski, yes we were contacted by jono
<wendar> dholbach: coolbhavi's term is not ending until next year, and no one else is returning
<czajkowski> :/
<wendar> czajkowski: yes, it would have helped to have more advance notice of the app contest, we were scrambling at the last minute
<wendar> czajkowski: though, I don't think anyone expected it would be *that* successful
<coolbhavi> czajkowski, but we were taken off by the success it had because it was all quick I believe
<czajkowski> nods
<dholbach> maybe it'd make sense to extend the call for nominations then
<wendar> czajkowski: our usuall submission rate was about 5/week, which was managable by one person (me) full-time
<czajkowski> yea so that is a massive jump
<czajkowski> wendar: coolbhavi highvoltage do you think extending the deadline and possibly increasing the ARB would be a good idea
<czajkowski> I note there has been a lengthy discussion on ubuntu-devel on the ARB process
<coolbhavi> czajkowski, certainly +1 here we need members
<wendar> Improvements to the ABR process will help, but we are talking 6+ months of development work to get the tools in place
<wendar> in the mean-time we do still have a stack of developers waiting for a response, and it seems unfair to leave them waiting
<czajkowski> how invovolved were the aRB in the draftng of this process, I guess ye would know from hands on experience ?
<dholbach> sure, in the meantime, there needs to be an active team of ARB helpers + members
<wendar> by "extending the deadline" do you mean allowing more nominations after Sept 5th?
<czajkowski> wendar: yes
<coolbhavi> dholbach, yes agreed
<czajkowski> wendar: we could extend it another week or 10 days
<czajkowski> do you think that would help ?
<wendar> I'm happy to extend the deadline as long as needed, but what do we do about the expiring members?
<wendar> we can't approve apps with only 2 members
<czajkowski> yes that is a bit of an issue alright.
<czajkowski> and holding up apps with the vote, increases the backlog
<dholbach> I'm sure the TB can extend the expiration period
<wendar> czajkowski: the ARB did review the proposal before it was posted to ubuntu-devel, and contributed substantial changes
<dholbach> of course I can't speak for the TB, but the CC has done this various times before
<czajkowski> wendar: good to hear.
<dholbach> and if only for a ocuple of weeks to get things organised
<czajkowski> dholbach: +1
<coolbhavi> wendar, can we mail luke to get him involved here? I havent seen him for ages though
<wendar> coolbhavi: I don't expect much from him, and have been considering him "expired" with the rest, even though his term lasts until next year
<coolbhavi> hmm
<dholbach> in that case we should reach out to him
<dholbach> I can do that if you like
<wendar> coolbhavi: he signed up when we promised "no more than 5 hours/week" so I don't think he had enough time available
<coolbhavi> ok
<wendar> dholbach: you can, or I can, but be gentle
<dholbach> of course
<wendar> dholbach: it's really just a question of whether he has any time, and if not well let him go with no hard feelings
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> I can also help liaise with the TB to get an extension of your terms, so there's a bit more time for nominations
<dholbach> how do you like the new spec - do you think that'd be our best shot at solving the apps problem?
<wendar> I hate to make the one really good candidate wait for more nominations
<wendar> could we recruit him and then do another round of nominations?
<dholbach> yes, I guess that should be possible too
<coolbhavi> dholbach, that would be great but I go with wendar here
<dholbach> I can start the conversation with the TB tomorrow
<wendar> sure, that sounds good
<dholbach> excellent
<wendar> I'm  not sure if the other members want their terms extended, but I'm certainly happy to continue until we restaff
<dholbach> cool, I'll include everyone in the discussion
<coolbhavi> dholbach, great
<dholbach> how do you like the new spec - do you think that'd be our best shot at solving the apps problem?
<wendar> As I've mentoned elsewhere, I don't 100% agree with the new spec. But, we desperately need some work in the direction of automated packaging/sandboxing.
<dholbach> agreed
<wendar> And I'm confident we can hit a good agreement for the next 6-month cycle of work.
<dholbach> coolbhavi, highvoltage - how do you feel about it?
<coolbhavi> dholbach, by an initial read its much better than existing one and one part I liked was removing manual reviews which were the bottlenecks this showdown I believe
<wendar> I'm actually really encouraged by the discussion on the ubuntu-devel list. It's lengthy, but the tone is quite healthy. A night and day difference from the initial discussion when the ARB was launched. :)
<dholbach> and it seems to be quite focused on one particular part of it :)
<highvoltage> dholbach: the new spec? well, dropping the /opt requirements will bring more problems than it solves, afaict
<wendar> highvoltage: yes, I'm also in favor of keeping the /opt requirement
<dholbach> it will be interesting to see how the discussion works out and which new solutions will be presented
 * coolbhavi seconds highvoltage 
<dholbach> I think all my questions are answered - Gwaihir, czajkowski, pleia2?
<highvoltage> I don't like the opt requirement, it is inconvenient, it does add a challenge, it does make it harder to get that same package into the debian/ubuntu archives, but it's also the only way you can prevent filename clashes reliably
<pleia2> no, I'm good for now
<Gwaihir> dholbach, I'm good for now too
<czajkowski> no I'm ok thanks.
<dholbach> ok, I'm happy to help with the restaffing
<dholbach> I hope we get some more good candidates :)
<dholbach> is there anything else from you, the ARB, which we CC folks could help with?
<coolbhavi> dholbach, I'm fine here as my only concern was restaffing
<wendar> we really appreciate the time to talk, it's helpful
<pleia2> thanks for coming :)
<dholbach> cool :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot! :)
<coolbhavi> wendar, I have a suggestion here
<wendar> coolbhavi: yup?
<coolbhavi> maybe we can elaborate the ubuntu developer requirement and state that we arent looking out for MOTU/Core dev explicitly as a requirement?
<coolbhavi> then we can get more applications I guess
<wendar> the call for nominations did say "not a requirement"
 * ScottK thought it was supposed to be a requirement.
<wendar> but, we can certainly work to make the second call even more welcoming
<wendar> ScottK: being an Ubuntu Developer is a requirement
<ScottK> OK.
<wendar> ScottK: being MOTU/core-dev isn't
<ScottK> Right.  That bug still exists.
<coolbhavi> yes but the general feeling is ubuntu developer straight goes to MOTU/core dev
<coolbhavi> ScottK, +1
<wendar> well, they could be a Kubuntu developer
<wendar> that'd be fine
<wendar> or a DD
<wendar> (as well as UD)
<coolbhavi> fine with me though :)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> perfect
<dholbach> anything else or shall we move on?
<wendar> nothing from here, thanks!
<dholbach> thanks again :)
<dholbach> #topic any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: any other business?
<coolbhavi> dholbach and the CC: thanks for your time!
<dholbach> the only thing I have on my list is the CoC update and I think it's still with YokoZar - I mailed him today about it
<dholbach> but that's all I have
<dholbach> anyone else?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> all good thanks dholbach
<pleia2> nope
<dholbach> alright then
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone
<dholbach> and thanks for coming
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  6 17:45:10 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-17.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-17.02.html
<jono> alrighty
<jono> time for the accomplishments meeting
<jono> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  6 18:01:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jono> cielak, s-fox all set?
<s-fox> yes
<cielak> yup
<jono> no mfisch it seems
<jono> so I figured we could use this as an opportunity to discuss the release
<jono> I have been a bit out of the loop due to travel recently
<jono> cielak, what is your take on the maturity of the daemon/.
<jono> ?
<cielak> the daemon is fine
<jono> it seems like all the bugs we wanted to fix are fixed
<cielak> there is only one low-priority bug left
<cielak> but it does not matter much
<jono> that can wait until 0.4 I think
<jono> what is your take on the viewer?
<cielak> viewer is worse
<cielak> apparently the Gtk spacing issue is still present
<jono> right, but is this a release blocker?
<jono> I see the spacing but there is not much spacing there
<cielak> for mfisch all trophies are displaying in one collumn
<jono> oh I see
<jono> is he on Precise?
<cielak> that looks very wrong
<cielak> I am not sure, but that is probable
<jono> we should fix this on Precise for sure
<jono> I also need to test if the Quickly changes work on Precise - I have a branch, I just couldnt test it last week
<s-fox> i have the same problem
<jono> will test today on my Precise machine
<jono> s-fox, are you on Precise?
<s-fox> 12.04 jono
<jono> s-fox, cool
<jono> s-fox, can you do me a favor and check out https://code.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntu-accomplishments-viewer/quickly-upgrade-test and tell me it runs
<jono> obviously start the viewer first
<jono> oops
<jono> start the daemon first
<jono> so it seems when we fix the bug on Precise we get it in Quantal, and vice versa
<cielak> looks like a gtk upgrade introduced that change
<s-fox> i'll check it out after the meeting.
<jono> cielak, ok, so this sounds like we need to take it to seb
<jono> s-fox, if you can check that would be great and then I can commit the fix
<mfisch> here!
<jono> hey mfisch
<cielak> hopefully that will be fixed quickly
<jono> we are just discussing the spacing bug
<cielak> hi mfisch :)
<mfisch> ok
<mfisch> jono: I think it should be fixed for 0.3
<jono> mfisch, unfortunately it sounds like a GTK issue
<jono> so we are blocking on it
<jono> I wonder if it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1036455
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036455 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "GTK Rendering Issue (potentially a ScrolledWindow problem)" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<mfisch> but unfortunately I dont have any great solutions
<cielak> but if this is a gtk issue that is present in quantal
<cielak> then it is actually correct that we encounter this bug on quantal and not precise (which was the case before)
<mfisch> I see it on precise now
<mfisch> as of about 2 weeks ago
<jono> cielak, right, so I guess we should get the code working for Precise and then try to get the bug fixed in Quantal
<cielak> as quantal is not yet released, we may want to fix the issue in precise, and release a broken viewer in quantal
<cielak> maybe the gtk bug fix will fix the already released viewer too
<cielak> but if not
<mfisch> is the issue that the space reserved for the icons is too large?
<cielak> then it won't be a big matter, as quantal is not considered as stable
<jono> cielak, agreed
<cielak> there are two linked issues
<jono> mfisch, you are on Precise?
<mfisch> jono: yeah
<jono> mfisch, can you do me a favor and check out https://code.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntu-accomplishments-viewer/quickly-upgrade-test and tell me it runs
<cielak> reserved space being too large and icons displayed in a single column
<mfisch> jono: yeah
<jono> mfisch, that branch has my quickly upgrade changes in it
<jono> thanks
<jono> so it sounds like this is the only bug we need to fix before release
<jono> ooh I need to also hide the web gallery prefs
<cielak> we'll also need to disable some functionality
<cielak> exactly
<mfisch> did we discuss the other "high" bug in the viewer?
<jono> I will do that today
<jono> I have the test plan about ready to go too
<cielak> and I need to suggest something concerning that disabling
<jono> cielak, oh?
<cielak> that we forked the code into separate series for 0.3 and trunk
<cielak> so it would work this way:
<cielak> 1) the code is forked into 0.3 branch and trunk branch
<cielak> 2) the code in 0.3 branch has that functionality disabled
<jono> cielak, yup
<cielak> 3) after releasing 0.3 we work in trunk branch
<jono> cielak, totally agree
<jono> so why don't I fork the branches today
<mfisch> for the viewer?
<cielak> 4) when we want, we can return to 0.3 to release it again
<mfisch> or everything
<cielak> just the viewer
<mfisch> ok
<jono> cielak, well we probably want to fork for the daemon and viewer
<cielak> for we do not plan to do any post-release changes in daemon
<jono> so post release we can release a point release if needed
<cielak> do we?
<jono> I think it is unlikely, but forking won't hurt us
<mfisch> agreed
<cielak> true
<jono> I don't think we need to fork UCA
<mfisch> me either
<jono> ok so one other update
<jono> the RT ticket for t.u.c has been escalated
<jono> they will be working on it soon
<cielak> we don't use milestones for UCA anyway ;)
<jono> cielak, indeed :-)
<cielak> how about the ticket concerning ubuntu forums?
<jono> cielak, I haven't seen any progress on that
<jono> my priority right now is t.u.c so we can release a bunch of things
<jono> if s-fox can keep on top of the other ticket, that would be great
<cielak> but there is nothing to keep on
<jono> cielak, I mean encouraging them to focus on
<jono> IS often need reminding :-)
<cielak> reminding or annoying?
<jono> a little bit of both :-)
<jono> ok, so it sounds like we need to do the following:
<jono>  * mfisch and s-fox test my branch with the quickly upgrades on Precise
<cielak> is it that they lost our ticket in the flood of thousand other important issues, or do they intentionally do not want to work on that?
<jono>  * we need to fix viewer to work on Precise
<jono> cielak, they are just busy with a 1000 other things
<jono> IS is *always* oversubscribed
<jono> they are a small team with a large amount of tickets
<cielak> alright, then we can at least hope pushing them now and then will bring some results :)
<jono> yeah, this is not the first time this has happened
<jono> the good news is that the t.u.c stuff is progressing
<jono> cielak, would you mind taking care of making the viewer work again on Precise?
<mfisch> I have a viewer question too
<jono> mfisch, shoot
<mfisch> there's another viewer bug marked high:
<mfisch> #1009637
<mfisch> which I cannot repro
<cielak> jono: to be honest, I have not given a detailed look into that gtk issue and might have trouble determining what was exactly the reason for it
<jono> cielak, no worries, I will take a look at it
<cielak> (I would also need to install precise somewhere)
<jono> cielak,  I can take care of it
<jono> I have a Precise machine
<mfisch> I highly recommend installing virtualbox for this type of thing
<mfisch> I may also be able to take a look
<mfisch> but I'm no gtk expert
<jono> cielak, oh I fixed that
<jono> ops
<jono> mfisch, I fixed that
<mfisch> jono: I thought so
<mfisch> since it's marked for a milestonr
<jono> yup
<jono> ok cool, so it sounds like we have a plan
<jono> any other topics for discussion?
<mfisch> do we have a release date in mind?
<mfisch> or just after fixes and testing
<cielak> there were some contributors that expressed enthusiasm concerning the meeting
<jono> mfisch, I think if we have our final branches today
<jono> and then do some testing tomorrow and over the weekend, we can release on Monday
<jono> Monday works for me as I am out next week and the week after with work
<jono> cielak, indeed
<cielak> jaywink, kokoye, are you with us?
<jaywink> cielak yeah here, sorry been able to only pay half attention
<cielak> no problem
<jaywink> our girl going to bed
<cielak> you did mention you wanted to get involved in testing, right?
<jaywink> yes pls :)
<jono> jaywink, awesome!
<jono> jaywink, so I am going to have a test plan ready soon
<jono> which will have a collection of tests you can run and a place to add feedback
<jono> could you do that over the weekend?
<jaywink> sure
<jono> jaywink, awesome, I will mail the mailing list when it is ready to go
<jaywink> I can try with two computers, one is kinda more messy with lots of ppa's (mine) and one is a cleaner install (wife)
<jono> sounds great
<mfisch> jono: about this quickly branch, am I testing the build or functionality (or both)?
<jono> thanks, jaywink!
<jono> mfisch, both
<jono> mfisch, I hope it works
<jono> then we ca commit the  changes to trunk and it will work on both precise and quantal
<jono> any other business for discussion?
<s-fox> where are we at with the web gallery ?
<s-fox> cielak said something about it not quite being ready
<jono> s-fox, the web gallery is making good progress but we can't launch it until t.u.c is deployed
<jono> same for the social media support
<cielak> well, I meant that the canonical IS did not yet deploy it :)
<s-fox> k
<jono> s-fox, the good news is when they deploy it we will be all good to go
<s-fox> oh, my forums accomplishments integration is still being ignored / stalled / whatever
<jono> s-fox, as I mentioned earlier, can you keep pressuring them to focus on it?
<jono> s-fox, have one more go and then I will escalate it if there is no action
<s-fox> sort of disappointing to be hit with silence. beginning to give up.
<s-fox> okay. i will send another email.
<jono> s-fox, don't be disappointed, this is nothing personal
<jono> IS have thousands of tickets to deal with
<cielak> some are important, some are not ;)
<jono> we will get there, it just takes a little perseverance at times :-)
<jono> indeed
<s-fox> i know, and i understand. i think it is a case of priorities with resources
<jono> indeed
<jono> s-fox, but the least they can do is give us an accurate estimation
<jono> s-fox, press them for a response and lets see what they say
<s-fox> it would be nice to hear something, even a no but maybe later would be nice
<jono> thanks s-fox, I really appreciate it :-)
<jono> alrighty, I think we are done
<jono> thanks everyone, and thanks in particular to cielak and mfisch for taking care of things while I have been out of the office
<jono> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  6 18:34:57 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-18.01.html
<s-fox> thanks guys, bye from me too
<cielak> no problem jono :) thanks all!
<jaywink> tnx guys :)
<jono> thanks!
<jono> and now I eat lunch :-)
<bluesabre> :)
<jk-> o/
<hggdh> \o
<IdleOne> folks, give us a couple minutes here as we sort ourselves
<iulian> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  6 22:12:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is iulian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<iulian> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards.
<iulian> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<iulian> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<iulian> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<iulian> Is Ravi325 here?
<IdleOne> Don't believe they are
 * iulian waits a couple of minutes and then moves on to the next one.
<hggdh> er. I am available to vote, if you are talling who is here
<iulian> OK, time's up.
<iulian> notgary: You're next, fire away!
<notgary> Hey...
 * iulian waves.
<notgary> Hi, my name's Chris Wilson, also known as notgary. I'm a software developer in my day job and am interested in using what I learn there to help Ubuntu. I work mostly on the papercuts project and have recently taken over leadership of it, and am working on a plan for making it a prominent project within the larger Ubuntu community.
<notgary> You can find my wiki page here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/notgary
<notgary> If anyone has any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them.
<hggdh> nice testimonial from bilal
<IdleOne> agreed
<iulian> notgary: I see that you're a member of unity community hackers on Launchpad. Are you helping out with unity as well?
<micahg> notgary: I notice that you're a heavy contributor to the papercuts project, but I don't see any sponsored uploads, are most of these fixes pushed directly upstream?
 * hggdh holds on a question, waiting for the current ones to clear out
<notgary> iulian: I joined the unity community hackers intending to contribute there, but have not yet gotten round to it.
<iulian> Right, okay.
<notgary> micahg: I've pushed very few patches actually. Most of my work has been of a management role, triaging bug reports, filtering out the non-papercuts, prodding developers to take a look at them, and generally making it easier for developers to know what needs dones.
<micahg> notgary: ah, alright, still very important stuff
<hggdh> and I remember notgary around
<iulian> Brilliant. hggdh, you've got a question for him.
<hggdh> notgary: given your work with bugs, why didn't you (yet) apply for Bug Control (this is a question with my Bug Control hat on)?
 * hggdh sees ~ 1,200 bus touched by notgary)
 * bluesabre claps.
<notgary> hggdh: Just not gotten round to it. It's on my Ubuntu todo list, along with many other things :). If you think I qualify, then I'll go ahead and apply soon.
<hggdh> notgary: given your work on papercuts, and bilal's support, you have a pretty good stading to apply. Of course, it will depend on what you show us ;-)
<notgary> hggdh: Of course :)
<hggdh> notgary: so, what else do you intend to do from now on?
 * cjohnston notes that he wants to/is learning Django.. I happen to know a project that can use help
<cjohnston> ;-)
<micahg> notgary: I notice you're a software engineer, have you ever thought of doing Ubuntu development work? (I guess I can have my DMB hat on since hggdh has his bug control one on :))
<hggdh> heh
<notgary> hggdh: Community interest in the papercuts project seems to be faltering. The bug mail is very quiet when I'm not working on them, and I intend to get people interested. The first step is to put together a questionnaire to find out exactly why that's the case, which can be distributed with the help of OMG Ubuntu (once I actually ask them :)). Once the results are in, then the way forward can be planned.
 * cjohnston takes all hats away :-P
<iulian> Haha.
 * micahg hands cjohnston a shiny summit hat
<cjohnston> ooo... shiny...
 * hggdh inscribes 'R' in cjohnston's new shiny hat
<notgary> micahg: Ubuntu development work is always something that I've been planing on getting involved with. I mentioned earlier the existence of my ubuntu todo list. Membership of the Core Development team is on there, but finding time to learn the code has been a bit problematic, but I don't think that'll be the case much longer.
<hggdh> I am ready
<cjohnston> notgary: develop a couple extra hours in the day, then we can all be core devs ;-)
<iulian> #voters micahg IdleOne cjohnston hggdh iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne cjohnston hggdh iulian micahg
<iulian> #vote Grant notgary Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant notgary Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
 * IdleOne pokes cjohnston 
<cjohnston> o..I have to vote? I was looking at my shiny hat
<iulian> cjohnston!
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant notgary Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congrats!
<iulian> notgary: Congratulations.
<hggdh> notgary: you may want to touch bases with balloons, on promoting papercuts
<bluesabre> Congrats notgary!
<cielak> notgary: congrats!
<hggdh> notgary: welcome in deaar sir :-)
<iulian> bluesabre: Hello. Could you please introduce yourself?
<micahg> notgary: don't worry about the membership, people will poke you when it's time to apply, as for the code, there are so many different packages it's hard to "learn the code", rather just find something you want to fix and go for it
<notgary> Thank you all very much. I really appreciate your support :)
<notgary> micahg: Thanks for the advice. I'll do that.
<micahg> notgary: there are no shortage of Qt and C++ packages in teh archive that need help :)
<hggdh> indeed, and a lot of packaging issues to look at as well (where no code is necessary, mostly)
<bluesabre> Hi everyone!  I'm Sean Davis (bluesabre).  I'm a Xubuntu Team member and have spent some time with them reporting bugs initially, but now I've taken up some development work and maintain Parole and Catfish.  Here's my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis
<bluesabre> Also, I help out with Xubuntu Artwork.  :-)
<bluesabre> I'd be happy to answer any questions you send my way.
<hggdh> bluesabre: how long have you been working with (x)ubuntu?
<bluesabre> hggdh: I started reporting bugs with Precise.  Starting with Quantal's development, I've been working with the team to resolve some of the artwork issues and revamping/maintaining Catfish and Parole.
<bluesabre> Currently I'm working on porting indicator-messages back to gtk2 for xubuntu, but it's slow-going.
<bluesabre> ^ specifically, started with Precise-beta
<iulian> Any more questions for bluesabre?
<iulian> #voters micahg IdleOne cjohnston hggdh iulian PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes cjohnston hggdh iulian micahg
<iulian> #vote Grant bluesabre Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant bluesabre Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +0  - I'd like to see some more sustained contributions... The work you are doing is great, please keep it up.
<meetingology> +0  - I'd like to see some more sustained contributions... The work you are doing is great, please keep it up. received from cjohnston
<iulian> +0 at the moment.
<meetingology> +0 at the moment. received from iulian
<micahg> +0, good work, but we're missing the 'sustained' requirement for membership
<meetingology> +0, good work, but we're missing the 'sustained' requirement for membership received from micahg
<hggdh> +0 needs more time to show sustained contributions; apart from that it is OK, but please try again in a few months
<meetingology> +0 needs more time to show sustained contributions; apart from that it is OK, but please try again in a few months received from hggdh
<IdleOne> +0 bluesabre I like what I see, testimonial from knome is strong
<PabloRubianes> +0 come back in a few time
<meetingology> +0 bluesabre I like what I see, testimonial from knome is strong received from IdleOne
<meetingology> +0 come back in a few time received from PabloRubianes
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant bluesabre Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:6
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<IdleOne> basically we would like you to keep up the good work and come back in 3-6 months
<bluesabre> Bummer.  Thanks everyone for your consideration, I'll be back sometime after Quantal comes out.  :-)
<hggdh> yes. The *only* thing that halted me was the sustained piece
<iulian> bluesabre: We look forward to seeing you back!
<bluesabre> Thanks!
<cjohnston> bluesabre: that sounds like a great idea.. Please keep up the good work..
<hggdh> bluesabre: please do come back
<IdleOne> +1 on applying again
<iulian> jk-: Hello, you're up next.
<jk-> Hi folks, I'm Jeremy Kerr, from Perth, Australia
<jk-> My wiki page is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremyKerr . I also have some technical info up at http://jk.ozlabs.org/ .
<jk-> My background and contributions are development-based, and I mostly work on kernel & plumbing-related projects.
<cjohnston> jk-: were you at Plumbers last week?
<jk-> Recently, this has been based around UEFI (mostly secure boot) and 64-bit ARM support in Ubuntu
<jk-> cjohnston: unfortunately not :/
<jk-> I've been there (presenting) in the last couple of years though
<cjohnston> I went this year.
<jk-> nice :) how was it?
<cjohnston> Well.. I attended more of LinuxCon... but I was there because Plumbers used Summit
<jk-> ah, right
<hggdh> jk-: what have you done for Ubuntu (apart from helping on Askubuntu)?
<jk-> oh wait, you're that Chris? I think I sat at your table at the closing party for the last Linaro Connect :)
<cjohnston> probably
<MrChrisDruif> Ugh, the downsides of having Chris in my mentions list... ;-)
<jk-> hggdh: Most of my development work is done with upstream
<cjohnston> Chris.. Chris.. Chris..
<cjohnston> :-P
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah Chris? ;-)
<hggdh> folks, back to the subject matter, please
<jk-> but I generally work on Ubuntu support for new machines - kernel hardware enablement work.
<hggdh> jk-: what I am trying to verify is what else you have done for the Ubuntu community
<IdleOne> jk-: You do anything with your Ubuntu LoCo?
<hggdh> for example, are you active on any #ubuntu channel? Do you answer email question from the MLs? etc
<jk-> ah, sure.
<jk-> I'm generally active on #ubuntu-kernel, and have recently been getting into #ubuntu-devel
<iulian> OK, thanks jk-.
<iulian> Do you guys have any more questions for him?
<hggdh> yes, I have seen you at -kernel
<jk-> I've also been contributing to the last 5 UDSes,
<IdleOne> How so?
<jk-> mostly around specifications for kernel projects
<jk-> running sessions based on suport for new hardware features
<hggdh> and how did the blueprints go?
<jk-> mostly well implemented
<jk-> about to kick off the cycle again for Q :)
<iulian> #vote Grant jk- Ubuntu membership.
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant jk- Ubuntu membership.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<jk-> (this time for ARMv8 support... )
<cjohnston> v8.. yippie
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<hggdh> +1 but, as a note to all future candidates, *please* make sure you show community-related work
<meetingology> +1 but, as a note to all future candidates, *please* make sure you show community-related work received from hggdh
 * iulian thinks he should've used #voters first.
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant jk- Ubuntu membership.
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<hggdh> jk-: welcome in!
<IdleOne> Congrats jk-
<micahg> iulian: I believe #voters is per meeting until changed or ended, but I could be wrong
<jk-> awesome, thanks guys :)
<iulian> Congrats jk-.
<PabloRubianes> congrats jk-
<jk-> ("guys" being the inclusive version)
<hggdh> IIRC, it is per meeting unless someone leaves/comes in
<iulian> Don't think so. Have a look above.
<iulian> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  6 23:03:14 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-22.12.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-06-22.12.html
<micahg> iulian: indeed
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-07
<ivarela> hi jono
 * xnox looks around
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-02
<cjwatson> kees,pitti,soren,stgraber: Who's around for the TB meeting, and whose turn is it to chair?
 * pitti waves hello; I chaired the pre-last one
<soren> o/
<soren> It feels like I chaired recently, but I'm not at all sure.
<cjwatson> I guess it's my turn.  Probably my last time.
<soren> 20:27 < soren> #agreed Kees to chair next meeting
<soren> Oh, wait.
<soren> That's for Aug 5.
<cjwatson> Yeah, but that was in place of me since I was on holiday.
<cjwatson> So it's probably my turn.
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep  2 20:01:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<cjwatson> I see nothing from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:59; anything I've missed?
<soren> If so, I'm missing it too.
<pitti> there's still kees' MRE review
<pitti> but that's something which is better done via email anyway
<cjwatson> That's the next thing on the agenda, but if people prefer to do it by mail, I'm happy to skip it here.
<cjwatson> Especially because (as I just mailed) I don't believe the output of that script :-)
<cjwatson> #topic Technical board restaffing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Technical board restaffing
<cjwatson> Has anyone e-mailed Mark to let him know that we need a round of nominations and elections?
<pitti> ah, good point; I didn't see anything (that certainly should be CCed to tb@)
<pitti> can do
<cjwatson> If nobody has, I'll do it as part of writing up minutes for this meeting, although perhaps it would be better from somebody who's continuing on the board
<cjwatson> So if you'd like to chase it, that would be great
<pitti> ack
<cjwatson> Thanks
<cjwatson> Start thinking of whom you'd like to encourage to stand :-)
<cjwatson> #topic Review people in the ~uds-organizers team (cjohnston)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review people in the ~uds-organizers team (cjohnston)
<pitti> I did an initial review this afternoon, stgraber and kees replied with some updates
<pitti> from my POV I'd deactivate the first block (plus stgraber's updates), and set all others to renewal every 6 months?
<pitti> (self-renewal)
<stgraber> yeah, I think turning on self-renewal for the team is a good idea and for those we're not too sure about, setting an initial expiry a bit closer (couple of weeks) would help cleaning up the team
<pitti> ack
<cjwatson> I e-mailed with a couple of others for the definitely-out-of-date list
<cjwatson> I don't think there's a great urgency; from my POV a month is fine since this is still kind of holiday season
<cjwatson> And there's no UDS coming up now
<cjwatson> Self-renewal for the whole team is a good idea
<cjwatson> I think a year (as on the list) is probably better than six months - I get enough LP mail :)
<pitti> agreed, as a general default
<pitti> and a month or two for the current cleanup
<cjwatson> Yep
<cjwatson> One year / one month; any dissent?
<soren> I'm fine with whatever.
<stgraber> +1 for one year / one month
<cjwatson> OK, I call that carried by acclamation
<cjwatson> nothing else on the mailing list that I see
<cjwatson> no open bugs
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> nothing from me
<soren> nor me
<stgraber> nothing here
<pitti> I'll do the ~uds-organizers fiddling (just changed the defaults for new members)
<cjwatson> Righto, thanks
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep  2 20:22:42 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-02-20.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-02-20.01.html
<pitti> thanks all
<stgraber> thanks!
<pitti> ok, https://launchpad.net/~uds-organizers/+members adjusted
<pitti> good night everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-03
<lool> stgraber, barry: Hey
<barry> lool: hi
<lool> ogra_: hallo
<ogra_> hey ho
 * stgraber waves
<lool> I think we have two things for this week
<lool> switch to new numbers + announcement on one side, and blueprint / starting work for stuff we've discussed at vUDS
<lool> stgraber, barry: So I read stgraber had tested updating to new version numbers
<lool> I did too
<lool> I had to manually trigger the update once
<lool> then it picked up the update from 17 to 18 in daily-barry
<lool> but first, do you folks have other agenda items?  :-)
 * ogra_ doesnt 
<barry> nope
<stgraber> nope, first thing on my todo is to drop daily-barry, archive daily and daily-proposed, re-import both of them with the new numbering and write+send the announcement
<lool> sounds great
<barry> i haven't tried upgrading since friday, but good to hear it worked for lool  and stgraber
<stgraber> then start updating the wiki and file bugs for the next bits on my list (channel aliases being pretty high up on it)
<barry> when do you think we can drop support in the client for the old version numbers?
<lool> barry: I had to use the cmdline to trigger the update with -b0 though, but I think that was expected?
<barry> lool: yes, expected
<lool> barry: give it 10 days or so?
<barry> lool: sounds good to me
<barry> (tbh, it's more tech debt than anything else)
<lool> ok; there's a hangout with QA team later today where we should get latest status on them testing the new images
<lool> I think that's all
<lool> asac: what were your questions WRT the switch?
<stgraber> barry: well, in theory you can do that tomorrow since we won't be publishing updates with the new format
<barry> stgraber: ack
<lool> hmm right, perhaps we want to keep the option of a roll back for a couple of days
<lool> but that's it I guess
<asac> lool: wanted an ETA when you guys feel we are in a state that we should start focussing on the touch_ro dashboard
<stgraber> yeah, I guess it doesn't hurt to keep it as a rollback option for a few days
<lool> asac: last week?  :-)
<asac> lool: so all the technologyu parts have landed etc.?
<lool> yes
<lool> we switch numbering scheme Friday, so we delayed until today to announce
<asac> e.g. we can go into stabilization/testing and later, switch default mode
<asac> ok
<asac> so what will be announced today?
<lool> today we want to announce that the new images are ready for wide consumption
<barry> lool: doesn't matter really.  i won't even start on that until after the d/l service integration (unless i find it's a blocker, but i doubt it)
<lool> I don't think we'll have a phablet-flash default, but we should switch the QA tests to use these now
<asac> lool: whats the diff on the dashboard?
<asac> lool: can we get the dashboard first into shape?
<barry> LP: #1220238
<asac> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/touch_ro/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1220238 in Ubuntu system image "Remove support for old version numbers" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220238
<lool> asac: apparently QA team was still converting some tests to run on the host as they were too big to apt-get install
<asac> those should have more or less the same results
<lool> asac: but we have a hangout later today with QA team that might be better suited to bring this up
<lool> (nobody from QA here0
<asac> so right now we cannot promote images to /current
<asac> which means its not very good if we ask folks to move over
<asac> lets first get our dashboard in shape
<lool> barry: might want to check with mandel when the updated download service is landing
<lool> barry: he seemed to be changing the API a bit; not much, but still
<barry> lool: yep, on my plate :)
<asac> lool: do we have a tool to promote images?
<asac> is that one ready?
<lool> asac: it's hooked to the promotion of current
<asac> ok
<asac> well not so ok :)
<asac> but ok
<asac> :)
<lool> well, you could switch it manually if needed I guess
<lool> stgraber: ^
<asac> so lets not announce them until we have valid results
<lool> but we should avoid this
<lool> asac: I'm not in favor of delaying the announcement
<lool> we want more people testing these
<asac> only if we decouple promotion
<asac> i dont want to promote stuff like this
<asac> lool: you can announce that people should try, but dont announce that they should use it as their default
<lool> so you would like separate promotion of pending -> current and daily-proposed -> daily
<lool> because they are tested separately
<asac> right
<lool> I can see how this makes sense, but it's bad if latest daily and latest current are different
<asac> we have different results as well
<lool> and we want to stop testing pending -> current altogether
<asac> not so sure about that one... for me its two different channels
<asac> so i dont have a problem if they are out of sync
<asac> we want to move over to touch_ro and kill the other
<lool> yes
<asac> right. so decouple so we can fix touch_ro
<lool> so I think it's a bit overzealous to maintain two systems
<asac> and not stop promoting the old image
<ogra_> asac, we cant stop promoting it
<ogra_> it is used by ports ... we have no option for them to use system image
<asac> ogra_: right. i dont want to stop promoting cdimage-touch
<asac> which would happen if i know that i promoote touch_ro at same time
<lool> we will stop testing the cdimage ones
<ogra_> yeah, we only can do that in case we figure out how community can provide self signed images
<lool> ports can test their own images in situ
<asac> can we move that part offline :)
<ogra_> well, we test the same content in system imagess
<asac> all i sam saying is: if /pending -> /current automatically promotes touch_ro, then i cant promote cdimage-touch
<lool> ok
<ogra_> so as long as they work there it is likelz they also work in cdimage images
<asac> if touch_ro is red
<ogra_> cdimage touch should jprobably ust drop current and pending ... and grow a /latest :)
<lool> asac: *we* have a single set of images that we care about; we just keep the option of using cdimage images available for ports, or for engineers that want to test this intermediate step, but it's not considered a product / baseline
<asac> lets discuss that _after_ we have moved over to touch_ro
<asac> lool: right, but right now its soo bloody red
<lool> the only thing _we_ will be testing are the system-image images
<asac> if you would have come to me at a day where its 92%
<asac> i would have had more faith that coupling both is fine for the transition period
<ogra_> asac, you came to us !
<lool> asac: but nobody retries stuff on touch_ro
<asac> buyt seems that our infrastructure is just not ready for the touch_ro
<asac> right
<asac> so lets do that this week
<ogra_> :)
<asac> focus on getting touch_ro also working
<asac> on infrastructrure
<lool> stgraber: would you mind attending the QA hangout later today?
<asac> i would prefer if the system-image team would drive that part
<lool> I'd like to get a final date agreed to announce this
<stgraber> lool: sure, I can do that
<asac> e.g. until you reach like 90%
<asac> then i am happy to take it over
<lool> stgraber: I think we should do the renumbering today and announce it though
<lool> stgraber: perhaps just on ubuntu-phone ML
<barry> +1 on renumbering announcement
<lool> asac: who will track the switch of QA to RO images?
<lool> we can discuss in the hangout I guess
<lool> asac: I'll chat with you about this
<stgraber> yeah, I'll do the renumbering as scheduled
<lool> ok, the other thing is updating the bps post-vUDS
<lool> stgraber, barry: I didn't copy workitems over from the session
<asac> lool: this team would drive the part
<asac> until its good
<asac> like 80%
<asac> again
<lool> asac: like us?
<lool> asac: or QA team?
<asac> no you guys should drive
<asac> its your landing
<asac> and you are seeing red in the dashboard
<asac> :)
<lool> this doesn't make sense, we don't have any control over this
<asac> well, but you are the drivers
<barry> lool: i'll double check, though tbh i find the bug tracker a *much* better way to track work than blueprints :/
<asac> not saying you have to do all the work
<asac> just drive it
<lool> asac: we can't fix QA infrastructure or QA scripts; we can only advice on how ot implement -- which we did
<asac> lool: i asked psivaa-lunch now to give it love like we do on touch
<asac> lool: you can notify them abvout that
<asac> and ask for retries etc.
<asac> or ask for help
<lool> asac: but we want a single contact in QA team; so psivaa you say?
<lool> ok
<asac> lool: psivaa-lunch and plars are your entry points
<asac> to get stuff retried
<asac> etc.
<lool> stgraber: gah, can't find the bp from 13.08 vuds again
<lool> ah it was upate on OS updates
<lool> and it was just for summit
<lool> stgraber, barry: Well, bugs are fine for tracking, but to bubble them up to the workitem tracker we need to link them to some blueprint
<lool> I just wanted us to agree on teh blueprint we'll use going forward
<lool> do we update the 1305 one, or use the 1308 from vUDS, or yet another one?
<stgraber> lool: everything on the old one should be marked as done or postponed
<stgraber> lool: and we should use https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1308-os-updates until next vUDS
<lool> ok
<barry> i'm fine with using the new one.  i'll do some housekeeping on the 1305 one
<lool> I can copy over stuff from 1305 to 1308
<lool> can you two update it with new stuff?
<barry> lool: sure
<stgraber> yeah, I don't think I've looked at the old blueprint since the last vUDS so I suspect my work items are pretty out of date
<barry> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-image-based-updates
<lool> barry: just link the bugs there
<barry> lool: +1
<lool> hmm when using bugs we can't postpone them
<lool> anyway
<lool> ok; that's all I had
<lool> anything else from you folks?
<barry> nope
<lool> I wanted to make this meeting biweekly with the announcement of new images
<lool> stgraber, ogra_, barry, asac: Ok; thanks all!
<ogra_> thanks
<stgraber> nothing else here. I'll switch to the new version numbers in a bit, it'll take a few hours to re-import everything
<barry> cheers
<stgraber> then will nag QA to re-run the tests and see how things behave. I expect they'll have to go through several run of fixing the tests before things start looking good (I don't expect changes to the image to be required)
<stgraber> oh and I have no idea how the QA website will handle a new image replacing a broken one in daily-proposed
<stgraber> since it'll have the same version number
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> evening folks
<smoser> o/
<smb> \o
<hallyn_> \o
<adam_g> o/
<zul> hiho
<hallyn_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  3 16:02:22 2013 UTC.  The chair is hallyn_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<hallyn_> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn_> arosales to update Juju blueprints
<arosales> hallyn_, got some good updates during the sprint last week.
<hallyn_> and bp is updated?
<hallyn_> will assume yes :)
<hallyn_> hallyn_ to coordinate with zul and smb on testing xen 4.3 on nova
<hallyn_> done - tested fine
<hallyn_> zul to follow up on mariadb/percona making it into Saucy
<hallyn_> zul: done?
<jamespage> we have a catchup in +2 hrs about that with percona
<jamespage> mariadb is still in review in Debian
<hallyn_> cool, i'll count that as up-followed
<hallyn_> thx
<jamespage> and percona expect to work on it next month
<jamespage> saucy looking unlikely
<hallyn_> ok
<hallyn_> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Saucy Development
<hallyn_> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<hallyn_> looking through the high prio ones, not sure those pertain to us
<hallyn_> oh there we go
<arosales> hallyn_, yes sorry for the delay. Yes got some good BP updates
<hallyn_> bug 1208455 - we can talk about during smb's section
<ubottu> bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
<hallyn_> arosales: great, thanks
<hallyn_> bug 1213915
<ubottu> bug 1213915 in ceph (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please demote ceph-mds and ceph-fs-common to universe" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213915
<hallyn_> jamespage: ?
<jamespage> with archive admins
<jamespage> no further action on our part required
<hallyn_> thx
<hallyn_> bug 1206872
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<hallyn_> zul: ^ ?
<hallyn_> also bug 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<jamespage> thats fixed
<zul> will look at it this week
<hallyn_> and bug 1199791
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<zul> jamespage:  the samba one/
<jamespage> yeah
<jamespage> nova security groups thing is not and probably won't be I guess
<zul> jamespage:  i was hoping for the nova security one ;)
<jamespage> nah
<hallyn_> jamespage: sorry, won't be what?
<jamespage> its not that of a biggy
<jamespage> won't be fixed
<hallyn_> ok
<hallyn_> last high prio one is bug 1214615
<ubottu> bug 1214615 in juju-core (Ubuntu Saucy) "package juju-core 1.13.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214615
<jamespage> I just closed that
<jamespage> I realized my mistake just after uploading but someone raised a bug Idid not spot
<hallyn_> i see that :)  thx
<hallyn_> ok, so moving on to blueprints
<jamespage> that horizon r/w on /usr/share is a pig as well
 * jamespage bumps the priority
<hallyn_> jamespage: oh?
<jamespage> I hit is yesterday when testing a few updates for horizon
<hallyn_> bug 1216019
<jamespage> I'll have a look
<ubottu> bug 1216019 in horizon (Ubuntu Saucy) "Horizon default config assumes www-data has R/w on /usr/share... directory" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1216019
<hallyn_> jamespage: thx
<jamespage> yeah - horizon tries to store/retrieve a secret
<jamespage> is horrid
<hallyn_> ok, so moving on -
<hallyn_> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<hallyn_> arosales: jamespage: ^
 * hallyn_ defers
<jamespage> good oh
<arosales> smoser, jamespage did vUDS allow for some good BP updates?
<jamespage> looks like everything might have had a good catchup after uds last week
<arosales> ah ok
<jamespage> roaksoax, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2
<jamespage> any updates?
<jamespage> bah - we are stuck on the hard stuff - active/active rabbitmq and active/active mysql
<roaksoax> jamespage: nope, I'll start this week to work on the charms (cause got distracted last week with toher stuff) right now in training
<jamespage> I started to look at charming percona/cluster using upstream repositories
<jamespage> it feel fragile still
<jamespage> anyway..
<smoser> arosales, i did a far amount of bp updates. if nothing else, vuds did give a reasonable time slot for that.
<jamespage> smoser, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-simplestreams
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-init
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-qa got a bit of a replan post vUDS
<jamespage> so s'ok
<smoser> jamespage, simplestreams is in correct state.
<jamespage> zul, please can you update and re-plan https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-havana against remaining milestones
<smoser> cloud-init i'm updating now.
<zul> ack
<zul> jamespage:  will do so this afternoon
<jamespage> I don't think mongodb will make main this cycle - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
<jamespage> but hopefully we can figure out something with upstream for 14.04
<zul> arrgh
<jamespage> that said we are now ship-shape on OpenSSL + AGPL linking exceptions
 * jamespage thanks MongoDB for doing that
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms
<jamespage> adam_g, I think that needs an update post UDS session please; with milestones etc...
<adam_g> jamespage, ack
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-archive
<jamespage> replanned and OK
<jamespage> zul, smb, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor  has some immediate work items that need attention
<jamespage> specifcally FFe's for openstack stuff
<zul> FFE filed for xen
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xen/+bug/1218817
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1218817 in xen (Ubuntu) "[FFE] Update to Xen-4.3 in Saucy" [High,New]
<jamespage> zul, please update the blueprint then
<zul> FFE filed for openstack-lxc coming today
<jamespage> thanks
<smb> jamespage, thought I did update the bp
<jamespage> smb; so you did - my mistake
<jamespage> arosales, want to touch on the juju blueprints?
<jamespage> I'm not so close to those...
<jamespage> nope -OK
<jamespage> looks like not to many issues anyway
<jamespage> hallyn_, back to you
<arosales> jamespage, I think we are good for this week
<hallyn_> jamespage: thanks, moving on,
<arosales> plus looks like I lost my chance :-)
<jamespage> arosales, lol
<jamespage> blink and you miss it
<hallyn_> :)
 * arosales too slow
<hallyn_> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn_> plumber's is comgin up with several mini-confs (lxc, virt, security...)
 * smb will be there
<hallyn_> any more coming up?
<arosales> charm school this friday
<arosales> https://juju.ubuntu.com/events/
<arosales> How to use Charm Helpers
<arosales> 1700 UTC (1pm EDT) 6 September
<arosales> #juju on Freenode
<hallyn_> and maybe what charm helpers are? :)  /me should consider listening in
<hallyn_> ok, moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<arosales> yes if you don't know what charms are please join us and find out :-)
<jamespage> charm helpers help you write charms in less code +10000
<zul> lol
<hallyn_> plars: psivaa: \o
<hallyn_> we can come back if need be,
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<psivaa> hello
<smb> too late ? :)
<psivaa> no updaes from us btw :)
<hallyn_> psivaa: ok thanks :)
<smb> So just for that kvm bug mentioned before...
<smb> I cannot say more than that is seems to be some regression with 3.11 (maybe 3.10 already). I just managed to write a lengthy email to the kvm mailing list this morning as I am not sure how to drill down further. Basing on 64bit Precise  and 64bit Saucy on level 1 for a level 2 should be mostly working but adding more saucy to deeper nesting is likely prone to fail.
<hallyn_> smb: so 3.9-under-3.9 wouldn't have had this problem?
<hallyn_> (I thought jodh was having trouble iwth earlier kernels, but maybe i mis-remember)
<smb> hallyn_, I think only 32bit user-space in level 1 seems to have been broken a bit longer
<hallyn_> oh. right.  we have multiple bugs?
<smb> Likely
<hallyn_> lovely
<hallyn_> ok so, we're waiting on community to jump in.  this can be rperoduced with fedora or some other distros i assume?
<smb> I hope but I have not tried
<hallyn_> ok.  (mahbe i'll try later this week)  any other questions for smb
<hallyn_> if not, we can move on to...
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new from me. Any questions?
<hallyn_> (waiting 30 secs for responses)
<hallyn_> great, let's move on to
<hallyn_> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<hallyn_> anything?
<rbasak> In case anyone is unaware, http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/triage-report.html needs some love.
<hallyn_> oh yeah - can we do any automated cleanup of the likewise-open bugs?
<hallyn_> jamespage: ^ that looks like yoru ba
<hallyn_> bag
<jamespage> golly
<jamespage> yes
<jamespage> I'll take a look
<jamespage> but if the rest of the team can have a dirge on bug triage this week/next that would be helpful
 * jamespage holds up his hand for being a little neglegent on triage duty recently
<hallyn_> jamespage: ok, thanks :)  i looked at some by hand, and actually they looked like not all the same causes - but it's hard to tell bc i don't know the package that well
<hallyn_> i'd also like to consider taking all < 1000000 numbered likewise-open bugs and marking them all dups or something
<hallyn_> but ok, let's say
<hallyn_> [ACTION] everyone spend extra time triaging bugs this week
<meetingology> ACTION: everyone spend extra time triaging bugs this week
<hallyn_> so we can move on to
<hallyn_> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<hallyn_> Should be Tuesday Sep 10 at 16:00 UTC, with the magnificent roaksoax chairing
<hallyn_> thanks everyone \o
<hallyn_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  3 16:33:04 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-03-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-03-16.02.html
<jamespage> thanks hallyn_
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  3 17:00:36 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<arges> o/
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<apw> o/
<smb> \o
<bjf> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Latest bits for Calxeda Midway and LPAE support were pulled in S/master-next.
<ppisati> Work continues on making the S/master generic kernel use a concatenated
<ppisati> DTB: S/master-next tip has all the necessary config changes, while flash-kernel
<ppisati> still needs some work.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || foundations-1305-kernel            || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || pm-system-policy                   || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack            || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> v3.11 final has been released upstream and we have rebased our Saucy
<ogasawara> tree.  The archive is however frozen for the Beta-1 release this Thurs.
<ogasawara> As such, Beta-1 will ship with a v3.11-rc7 based kernel.  We will upload
<ogasawara> our v3.11 rebased to -proposed and it will propogate to the release once
<ogasawara> the archive freeze has lifted.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 05 - Beta 1 (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 19 - Final Beta Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 26 - Final Beta (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 03 - Kernel Freeze (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> == 2013-09-03 ==
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Sept. 03):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Regression Testing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  3 17:05:19 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-03-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-03-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-04
<stokachu> o/
 * slangasek waves
<doko> hi
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep  4 15:04:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> doko ev jodh stgraber slangasek cjwatson stokachu barry bdmurray xnox
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> doko: you're first :)
<doko> - Some unexpected GCC work, looking at regressions in the testsuite:
<doko>   - Testsuite wasn't enabled, so it was difficult to track down :-/
<doko>   - Fix libjava test failures, seen with binutils 2.23
<doko>   - Fix boehm-gc test failure
<doko>   - Look at gcc and g++ test failures only seen with hardening defaults, and fix
<doko>   - Re-discovered that -Wformat-security is disabled in GCC 4.8, because the boo
<doko> tstrap failed with this default.  Now enable that in the specs instead of the op
<doko> tions processing, and it builds ...
<doko>   - Ignore the additional mudflap test failures. Will work on removing mudflap u
<doko> pstream alltogether now that the sanitizer is available in 4.8.
<doko>   - Upload is pending
<doko> - Restart on cmake cross builds.
<doko> (done)
<ev> - Tail end of vUDS. Had a very productive discussion around the next steps for
<ev>   continuous integration.
<ev> - Mostly spent the week getting ready for the Lexington QA sprint next week.
<ev>   - Calls with jibel, Martin, Francis, and Adam.
<ev> - Meeting with IS to discuss Cassandra cluster next steps. They've asked to
<ev>   delay the final steps of migrating the data from our existing clusters into a
<ev>   new one. This is because they're working on building Prodstack 4.0 and doing
<ev>   these steps now would mean having to move a lot of data around once the new
<ev>   Prodstack is ready. I've in turn asked that more attention be given to moving
<ev>   daisy, errors, and the retracers onto prodstack and opening up access to the
<ev>   Cassandra nodes again, so we can at least continue with feature development
<ev>   while we wait.
<ev> - Patch piloting. Woo.
<ev> - Discussion around reporting runaway applications.
<ev> Other:
<ev> - Note: I am in Boston from this Sunday for the QA sprint and then on holiday
<ev>   for two weeks after that in somewhat remote territory (Nevada and Arizona
<ev>   desert). If you need my help with something, we have until Friday :)
<ev> - Attended a talk by Adrian Cockcroft at Cassandra London on how they have
<ev>   built Netflix. A lot of it was a repeat of the Cassandra SF talk that I
<ev>   summarised on canonical-tech, but there were definitely some useful bits in
<ev>   there, like their Zuul API proxy tier. Didn't get a chance to ask him how the
<ev>   move of all their systems to Ubuntu was going :-/
<ev> (done)
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>    - Landed the daily-proposed channel
<stgraber>    - Re-numbered all the current channels (base version is 1 instead of YYYYMM00)
<stgraber>    - Bumped system partition size from 1.2GB to 2GB
<stgraber>    - Following-up with QA to get this landed by default this week
<cjwatson> (jodh is on holiday)
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>   - Linux Plumbers mini-conference preparation
<stgraber>   - Licensing review and fixes
<stgraber>   - Python attach API review and fixes
<stgraber>   - Some code review
<stgraber>   - Android port fixes (building again with current NDK)
<stgraber>   - Prepared and pushed out the LXC 1.0~alpha1 pull request
<stgraber>     (FFe already accepted for once it's released)
<stgraber>  - Network
<stgraber>   - Merged ifupdown from Debian. Thanks to Steve for fixing the conffile handling of /etc/init.d/networking!
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>   - vUDS
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO (hopefully this week):
<stgraber>  - Land LXC 1.0~alpha1 in the archive ASAP (need to nag Daniel to process my pull request)
<stgraber>  - Implement the boot-time hooks for Ubuntu touch
<stgraber>  - Help QA run tests against touch_ro so we can switch to it by default
<stgraber>  - Re-design channels.json to be flexible enough to support channel aliases and hidden channels
<stgraber>  - Blog/g+/email about the version number changes as soon as we get a new phablet-flash landed in the archive
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stokachu> stgraber: what do you think about backporting ifupdown to precise?
<stgraber> stokachu: a straight backport wouldn't work because of other changes that happened around it, so we'd have to compare the effort to cherry-pick the fixes you care about vs the work required to backport saucy to precise.
<xnox> stgraber: (android src package rebuild has landed in .deb package as well now, if still needed)
<stokachu> stgraber: ok ive got a bug on ifupdown in precise where using simple service networking restart fails
<stokachu> stgraber: you have time after the meeting to discuss it a bit?
<stgraber> xnox: thanks! I didn't actually need it since we aren't using the binaries from the android package yet, but that means that once we do, we won't regress (which was the goal here).
<slangasek> * short week, Labor Day was on Monday
<slangasek>  * revisiting the status of UEFI netboot support; currently arguing with a machine that only wants to netboot over IPv6
<stgraber> stokachu: I don't see how backporting a more recent version of ifupdown would solve that
<slangasek>  * finally getting the partition resizing work done for phablet-flash, though too late to make it for the initial switch to system images
<slangasek>  * poking around the edges of beta1, want to revisit the freeze rules for optional milestones based on some of the experiences here
<slangasek>  * patch piloting today
<slangasek> (done)
<stgraber> stokachu: considering we don't actually support restarting networking to begin with
<stokachu> stgraber: dont support restarting networking?
<stgraber> stokachu: right
<stokachu> even for server
<stgraber> stokachu: we support bringing individual interfaces up and down, but as the networking in Ubuntu is event based, we can't support restarting the whole thing sequentially
 * ev steps out to chat with IS
<barry> have you tried `sudo service networking restart`?  don't! ;)
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  - Landed build cancellation (bug 54730) and retrieval of build logs for cancelled builds (bug 1050514).
<stgraber> stokachu: I mean, it may work and for simple systems it'll, just don't expect it to really work when using bridges, vlans or bond interfaces
<stokachu> stgraber: ok good to know, thanks
<ubottu> bug 54730 in launchpad-buildd "launchpad buildd abort does not work as expected" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54730
<cjwatson>  - Implemented automatic ppa-reset of failing virtual builders (bug 1039935), which has made the PPA build farm significantly more stable.
<ubottu> bug 1050514 in Launchpad itself "Cancelling build loses log file" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050514
<ubottu> bug 1039935 in Launchpad itself "buildd-manager failure counting is too trigger-happy when killing virtual builders" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039935
<cjwatson>  - Wrote blog entry on recent work: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-build-farm-improvements
<cjwatson>  - Removed limits on the percentage of available builders that a given public PPA can take up, which now do more harm than good (bug 666308).  Will be in the next deployment.
<ubottu> bug 666308 in Launchpad itself "public non-virtual ppas are unnecessarily limited on builders per architecture" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666308
<cjwatson> Click:
<cjwatson>  - Added "icon" (optional) and "installed-size" (automatically generated) to manifest for the benefit of UI code.
<cjwatson>  - Cleaned up various bugs in the preloaded wrapper.
<cjwatson>  - Added support for multiple installation root directories, which we'll use for preinstalled apps.  Much internal heavy lifting to make this work but no incompatible interface changes.
<cjwatson> TODO:
<cjwatson>  - Finish deploying preinstalled app handling in click.
<cjwatson>  - Removal support in click, since UI work on this is due to start soon.
<cjwatson>  - Big pile of OEM bugs, probably involving all the coffee :-/
<cjwatson> ..
<stgraber> barry: haha, yeah, then you notice that dbus is "stop on deconfiguring-interfaces" taking down the whole system :)
<stokachu> bug 833994 Ï needs discussion on latest comments
<stokachu> bug 1157943 Ï Needs more prodding of David (apt upstream)
<stokachu> bug 1204507 Ï Verification completed, needs promotion out of -proposed queue.
<ubottu> bug 833994 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833994
<stokachu> bug 1179781 Ï Needs apt uploaded in order to test.
<ubottu> bug 1157943 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-get update fails hash checks on https repositories when file size changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157943
<stokachu> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1204507 in maas (Ubuntu Quantal) "MAAS rejects empty files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204507
<stokachu> bug 1160490 Ï uploaded to saucy, needs sponsorship in precise, quantal, and raring.
<ubottu> bug 1179781 in apt (Ubuntu Raring) "If-Modfied-Since undhandled case causes apt lists corruption with https repositories" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1179781
<ubottu> bug 1160490 in ifupdown (Ubuntu Raring) "race condition updating statefile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160490
<barry> stgraber: i think it's shorthand for `ssh deadmachine sudo reboot`
<barry> Short week due to USA holiday.  vUDS.
<barry> system-image: LP: #1208909; LP: #1218612. fixed traceback when -c gives a bad channel name.  system-image 1.3 and 1.4.  various meetings.  update blueprints.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208909 in Ubuntu system image "Add support for forcing full image update" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208909
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1218612 in Ubuntu system image "Support new version number scheme" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218612
<barry> This week: LP: #1196991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196991 in Ubuntu system image "Support the new download dbus service" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196991
<barry> done
<bdmurray> uploaded apport SRU (R) fix for bug 1168849
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader SRU (Q and R) fix for bug 1215526, bug 1210649
<ubottu> bug 1168849 in apport (Ubuntu Raring) "crashes while reporting a Synaptics bug - fills up /tmp" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168849
<ubottu> bug 1215526 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Raring) "/usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release-gtk:ImportError:new_dist_available:build_ui" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1215526
<bdmurray> uploaded fixed SRU (Q and R) for bug 1035136
<ubottu> bug 1210649 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release-gtk:TypeError:on_button_upgrade_now_clicked:run:error:error:__init__:__init__:function" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210649
<ubottu> bug 1035136 in lsb (Ubuntu Raring) "[SRU] Fix lsb-core for 12.10 and 13.04" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035136
<bdmurray> uploaded oneconf fix for bug 1051935
<ubottu> bug 1051935 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Saucy) "Fails with SystemError when too many files are open" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051935
<bdmurray> sponsored patches in bug 1191704
<bdmurray> review of unsubscribed packages
<bdmurray> fix of tz issue with comparing dates in sru-report
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 1209442 (not phased update issue)
<ubottu> bug 1191704 in heimdal (Ubuntu Raring) "KDCs complain about not having enough file handles for /var/lib/heimdal-kdc/heimdal" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191704
<ubottu> bug 1209442 in Unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in getCompPluginVTable20090315_unityshell()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1209442
 * slangasek buys some Bosnian coffee from Brazil at the European deli and drop-ships it to cjwatson 
<cjwatson> stokachu: 1204507> blocked on a slew of other verifications, as shown on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<cjwatson> fwiw
<bdmurray> investigation into, fixing bug 1211511
<bdmurray> reported errors bug 1217521
<bdmurray> reported update-notifier bug 1220435 regarding crash reporting from Live CDs
<ubottu> bug 1211511 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager hides but wants to install ignored phased updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211511
<ubottu> bug 1217521 in Errors "Include repository information in package versions table on a problem page" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1217521
<stokachu> cjwatson: thanks checking now
<bdmurray> research into apport bug 1098844
<ubottu> bug 1220435 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "not notified of a crash when running a saucy live cd" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220435
<ubottu> bug 1098844 in apport (Ubuntu Raring) "apport-gtk crashed with PermissionError in thread_collect_info(): [Errno 1] Operation not permitted: '/var/crash/openafs-modules-dkms.0.crash'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1098844
<bdmurray> tested multiple kernels for bug 1218004
<ubottu> bug 1218004 in linux (Ubuntu) "Apple Wireless Trackpad causes kernel oops" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218004
<bdmurray> â done
 * xnox notices it's me
<slangasek> cjwatson: do you have any thoughts on the latest comments on bug #833994 (from stokachu)?
<ubottu> bug 833994 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833994
 * ev back
<xnox> imho it's unwise to introduce insecure https, and at the moment using gnu wget fails all installations (due to exact text parsing) so that linked bug should really be fixed first.
<xnox> ..
<xnox> - sent off summary to promote 64bit images by default on the website
<xnox> - finished proof-of-concept cross-compiling qml extensions, send of
<xnox>   email to ubuntu-phone mailing list. Further changes are required in
<xnox>   qt* & packaging
<xnox> - help out landing (and testing) upstart 1.10 in the archive for FFe, ubiquity
<cjwatson> I remain concerned that providing HTTPS when there's no way to make it secure is inviting people to do it wrong
<xnox>   uploads for FFe/Beta1, unbreak boost-python linking, unbreak
<xnox>   dh-python, sponsor patches for a few bugs.
<xnox> - continuing work on emulator, emulator config is now using kernel
<xnox>   from the archive.
<xnox> ..
<cjwatson> And yeah, as xnox said
<cjwatson> I really don't have time to take on a fix for this set of things at the moment though :-/
<stokachu> if we could possibly get a definitive stance on the subject that would help i think
 * slangasek nods
<stokachu> posted to the bug publicly
<slangasek> stokachu: I think cjwatson's / xnox's stance has been pretty consistent / definitive
<slangasek> "we're not going to give users a false sense of security about https"
<xnox> stokachu: bug 1172101 must be fixed.
<ubottu> bug 1172101 in wget (Ubuntu) "wget-udeb should install to /usr/bin/wget instead of /usr/bin/wget.gnu" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1172101
<cjwatson> This is it, my stance has been definitive, just not popular
<xnox> stokachu: then we can further proceed with remaining https cert issues.
<cjwatson> And I did propose a solution in comment #8
<stokachu> ok
<xnox> stokachu: and then yeah, implement cjwatson's comment #8
<cjwatson> (Which certainly needs implementation from our end)
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/833994/comments/8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833994 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged]
<slangasek> tb is technically right about links that are sniffable but not pwnable, but that basically requires a webserver that does PFS, and very few of them actually do and most admins have no idea if theirs does or not
<slangasek> so the vast majority of people who would see this functionality and try to use it would probably still be doing it wrong
<stokachu> ok -- i can pass this along and do we want to leave this case as is for a potentional resolution from comment 8 down the road?
<cjwatson> it's certainly still open
<slangasek> ok
<xnox> yeah, and supporting gnu wget is also useful (with & without https)
<slangasek> any other topics for today?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> ?
<stokachu> just confirmation on the rest of those bugs
<stokachu> theres a few low hanging fruit ones i believe
<slangasek> stokachu: bug #1179781> I'll sponsor those today
<ubottu> bug 1179781 in apt (Ubuntu Raring) "If-Modfied-Since undhandled case causes apt lists corruption with https repositories" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1179781
<stokachu> slangasek: thanks!
<slangasek> (chiluk probably should have resubbed ubuntu-sponsors for the reupload, but that's ok)
<stokachu> slangasek: ah i missed that sorry!
<slangasek> nothing else?
<slangasek> going...
<slangasek> going...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep  4 15:30:20 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-04-15.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-04-15.04.html
<slangasek> gone
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<barry> thanks!
<stokachu> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<stokachu> stgraber: could you look at bug 1160490
<ubottu> bug 1160490 in ifupdown (Ubuntu Raring) "race condition updating statefile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160490
<chiluk> thanks slangasek I'll resub sponsors next time.
<stokachu> or bdmurray ^
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-05
<czajkowski> beuno: cprofitt YokoZar ping
<cprofitt> hello
<YokoZar> Hello :)
<czajkowski> I'll chair
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  5 17:01:36 2013 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> Aloha and welcome to this months Community Council meeting where we meet with the LoCo Council
<coolbhavi> hello CC :)
<czajkowski> so who is here from the LC ?
 * coolbhavi lifts his hands up!
<cprofitt> hello coolbhavi
<PabloRubianes> Here czajkowski
<cprofitt> hello PabloRubianes
<coolbhavi> hello cprofitt
<PabloRubianes> hi cprofitt
<SergioMeneses> hi CC!
 * SergioMeneses hugs cprofitt 
 * cprofitt hugs SergioMeneses 
<YokoZar> Hi folks :)
<SergioMeneses> YokoZar, \o
<PabloRubianes> hi YokoZar
<czajkowski> thanks for attending folks
<coolbhavi> hey YokoZar
<SergioMeneses> always is good to meet with friends!
<beuno> czajkowski, o/
<coolbhavi> :)
<PabloRubianes> hey beuno!
<beuno> heya PabloRubianes!
<czajkowski> so how are things in the LC ?
<czajkowski> beuno: cprofitt YokoZar any questions?
<coolbhavi> czajkowski, going fine, we have been brainstorming and bringing in process changes
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, we published the new health check process http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2013/08/25/new-local-communities-healthcheck/
<coolbhavi> apart from our routine such as loco teams verification on per cycle basis and helping the loco teams in case of any issues
<SergioMeneses> and we are updating all teams right now http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2013/09/05/updating-shippit-to-the-new-term/
<beuno> anything stressing you guys out?
<cprofitt> have you received much interest in the upcoming openings for the LC?
<coolbhavi> nothing stressful as of now beuno
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, yes! this time we have a lot of proposals
<coolbhavi> cprofitt, yes we have received 4 applications as of now
<YokoZar> Pardon my ignorance, but do we offer localized versions of stuff in the goodies for loco councils, eg translated CD slip covers?
<SergioMeneses> we shall send you an email with all information about the aspirants
<YokoZar> (for the pressed CDs)
<PabloRubianes> YokoZar: no, there no localized materials
<PabloRubianes> in fact some Locos had say that we should improve the multilingual resources
<PabloRubianes> as there is only official resources in English
<cprofitt> I know that Jono spoke about 'special funding' for LoCo projects / activites I wonder if producing localized resources would be one of the things that might fit in that box... funds provided to a loco team so they can have that done...
<SergioMeneses> by the way, we have received a lot of commentaries about the new process, I dont know if you saw it
<cprofitt> SergioMeneses: I have not seen them; what was the overall response?
<czajkowski> cprofitt: it's been welcomed
<czajkowski> many people are very happy about removing the term approved so it's more welcoming to people
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: the resources I am talking are not just material, but for example ASKubuntu
<czajkowski> and others who weren't approved before or lost the status want to go again to be verified
<czajkowski> which is nice to see
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, the process is good because we need a tool for getting information about our local-communities, and the process is the best way to get it
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, agree
 * cprofitt nods to PabloRubianes about askubuntu type resources
<cprofitt> czajkowski: that is good that the process is well received
<SergioMeneses> and we are thinking to start a new process to contact and work with all teams, even no-verified
<czajkowski> from my point of view, I feel it's been harder to connect with the community at times due to different goals people have. I've found the vUDS mid week to hinder participation in the community
<PabloRubianes> I am +1 with czajkowski
<czajkowski> even the loco council themselves couldn't take part due to a) short notice of vUDs and b) the fact it was mid week meant people cannot take time off work to attend
<czajkowski> which also means we cannot connect wiht the commmunity
<PabloRubianes> at least it should be one day at a weekend day
<cprofitt> czajkowski: I agree on the vUDS
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski,  totally agree, vuds schedule is not good for my real work
<czajkowski> and the community cannot engage with Ubuntu, the developers and get involved.
<YokoZar> Would longer notice time help there, or moving it to a weekend?
<PabloRubianes> SergioMeneses: for anyone's work
<cprofitt> it was one thing to take time off and travel to go to a UDS in person, but it has been difficult to attend the vUDS... in general I attend the sessions I am most interested in
<coolbhavi> YokoZar, would certainly help
<cprofitt> and miss sessions that I am unsure of... at real UDS I would attend other sessions or use it to connect to others in the community
<PabloRubianes> YokoZar: I know that maybe a weekend is a time where you want to be with family, but is once every 3 months
<coolbhavi> moving over a weekend means some of us can be free
<PabloRubianes> on you regular job you cant connect to google hangout
<czajkowski> YokoZar: yes more notice
<czajkowski> and possibly a friday/saturday combination of a vUDs
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, but it was easier get days off in the work if you attent uds in person
<SergioMeneses> imho
<cprofitt> SergioMeneses: yep
<SergioMeneses> but vuds might be on weekends
<SergioMeneses> it could be a solution -practical-
<coolbhavi> +1 SergioMeneses
<czajkowski> that's a schdeuling thing, but I think the feedback from a community point is that mid week is not at all helful if you're not directly involved in development
<cprofitt> Do you feel that the loss of the in-person UDS has reduced the ability of people to understand the differences that regions face? I know I got a lot out of being able to really sit down and talk to people from Europe, India, etc... and listen to the issues they face in growing their local communities
<czajkowski> so some sort of meeting in the middle is needed split between mid week and a weekend
<czajkowski> cprofitt: I think honestly a 3 month cycle is very hard for a community when you don't have deliverables to produce
<czajkowski> it's only 3 meetings
<czajkowski> if you break it down to basics
<cprofitt> +1 czajkowski
<SergioMeneses> agree
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: also every loco has it needs sometimes global solutions are worst
<coolbhavi> cprofitt, I do feel so because infrastructure isnt so great here it just puts me out of contention wrt vUDS
<PabloRubianes> that's why we are doing case by case solutions
<czajkowski> so while I love the fact we have a fast pace developement cycle, I think it hinders at times our community to be involved when it comes to locoteams is my short summary :)
<cprofitt> so it appears that we can agree that we have an opportunity to improve the vUDS in regards to community (non-developer) engagement
<coolbhavi> +1
<PabloRubianes> +1
<czajkowski> cprofitt: +1
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, +1
 * SergioMeneses is still working
<cprofitt> I think that is critical... speaking honestly the community is what convinced me to go with Ubuntu when I was in my distro hopping phase
<czajkowski> I think the LC does a great job in understanding the community, it may be a slower than people want for changes to occur but it does listen to the ffeedback
<cprofitt> SergioMeneses I am at work right now too
 * coolbhavi is half slept here
<cprofitt> +1 czajkowski I think the loco does an excellent job as well
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, maybe we need to be more public with our things
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: indeed
<PabloRubianes> we do much on backstage
<SergioMeneses> I hate when people said we dont work
<czajkowski> it kinda feels at times people do not respect that or understand that and that leads to being frustrated tbh
<SergioMeneses> sure
 * cprofitt nods
<SergioMeneses> we are more than +1/-1
<coolbhavi> yes we do a lot of other stuff too
<cprofitt> I agree that I do not think people understand everything that goes on... there are a great many things that take tact, patience and a measure of privacy when it comes to loco teams
<czajkowski> beuno: YokoZar cprofitt any other comments?
<beuno> none from me, I'm happy you guys continue to rock
<cprofitt> no, I am good.
<coolbhavi> cprofitt, and quantifying stuff for the number of teams we cater to isnt easy
<cprofitt> I truly appreciate the work that everyone has done on the loco teams.
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, it's our duty
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  5 17:30:41 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-05-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-05-17.01.html
<coolbhavi> cprofitt, thanks we shall keep up our work to the highest level always
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, beuno YokoZar see you later! take care
<beuno> o/
<cprofitt> take care SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> lunchtime here
<PabloRubianes> thanks cprofitt YokoZar beuno for the meeting
<coolbhavi> bye cprofitt beuno YokoZar
<coolbhavi> good night from India :)
<cprofitt> bye coolbhavi
<c_smith> would it be alright if I idle here until the Membership meeting starts?
<toddy> c_smith: yes, that is ok.
<c_smith> cool
<c_smith> better early than late, y'know?
<phillw> toddy: is this a general CC meeting or a local one?
<c_smith> phillw, 0/
<phillw> c_smith: yes?
<toddy> phillw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<toddy> a general
<phillw> toddy: okies, thanks :)
<c_smith> phillw, just saying hi
<c_smith> wrong emote was used, apparently. XD
<phillw> c_smith: may I wish you success :)
<c_smith> phillw, thanks.
<hggdh> I
 * c_smith is still here
<hggdh> c_smith: please hold, we are checking on the status of the RMB members
<c_smith> hggdh, alright.
<c_smith> I was just saying that to state mainly that I haven't left.
<c_smith> which is kinda obvious
<hggdh> heh
<c_smith> but hey, what's the fun in not stating at least a few obvious things? done right, it can be pretty funny
<chilicuil> welcome c_smith =)
<c_smith> thanks.
<c_smith> now if only I still had glasses. XD
<hggdh> I will do it
<hggdh> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  5 22:05:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<hggdh> OK. Welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Board meeting for September 5th 2013, 22:00 UTC
<hggdh> @voters Pendulum chilicuil hggdh PabloRubianes
<meetingology> hggdh: Error: "voters" is not a valid command.
<hggdh> #voters Pendulum chilicuil hggdh PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes Pendulum chilicuil hggdh
<hggdh> bah
<dblueman1> I'm here for the meeting also
<hggdh> we expect candidates to speak up when we call them, and give us a brief intro on why they are qualified for membership; links to the LP and Wiki pages should be provided
<c_smith> noted
<hggdh> anyone willing to support and cheer for the candidates, please feel free to do so
<hggdh> So... let's get on to it
<hggdh> #meetingtopic RMB -- c_smith
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | RMB -- c_smith Meeting | Current topic:
<hggdh> c_smith: please present yourself
<c_smith> Hi, I'm Cody Smith (Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cody.Smith Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~cody.smith), I mainly contribute through my Local LoCo (Ubuntu Oregon). and occasional bug reports and fixes
<c_smith> I haven't contributed fixes in a while, but I still report bugs I find.
<c_smith> I try and get awareness of Ubuntu (and free software in general) whenever I can
<c_smith> *whenever and wherever I can
<Pendulum> c_smith: Can you expand some more on what you do with your LoCo?
<hggdh> c_smith: yes, please. Your wiki application is -- being candid -- poor on details
<c_smith> sure, I started an Ubuntu Hour here in my hometown (most members are an hour north of me) and with what I have done I (as slangesek has said in the comments) help set the pace for the Loco.
<c_smith> I do what I can for the LoCo (and Ubuntu at large) in the spare time I have.
<c_smith> if any more details are needed, please, ask for them.
<c_smith> oh, one thing I forgot to mention
<c_smith> at the Ubuntu hours, we occasionally get people who are wanting to try Ubuntu, yet don't know where to start, and those of us there (2-3 people including myself) try and get them the info they need to have the most success they can
<hggdh> c_smith: and how long have you been with the LoCo?
<c_smith> hggdh, if memory serves. since just before the 11.04 series.
<hggdh> c_smith: thank you. Can you please give us a bit so that we can discuss internally?
<c_smith> sure.
<hggdh> #voters Pendulum chilicuil hggdh PabloRubianes bkerensa-remote
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes Pendulum bkerensa-remote chilicuil hggdh
<hggdh> #vote c_smith for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: c_smith for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bkerensa-remote> +1 Excellent work over the years Cody! Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing your expanded contributions as you continue to grow in the Ubuntu Community
<meetingology> +1 Excellent work over the years Cody! Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing your expanded contributions as you continue to grow in the Ubuntu Community received from bkerensa-remote
<PabloRubianes> +1 c_smith great work and consistance in the ubuntu hours
<meetingology> +1 c_smith great work and consistance in the ubuntu hours received from PabloRubianes
<Pendulum> +1 I'm impressed with your commitment, especially the Ubuntu Hours
<meetingology> +1 I'm impressed with your commitment, especially the Ubuntu Hours received from Pendulum
<hggdh> +1 although the wiki is poor, the testimonials pretty much nail it
<meetingology> +1 although the wiki is poor, the testimonials pretty much nail it received from hggdh
<chilicuil> +1, keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1, keep up the good work received from chilicuil
<hggdh> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: c_smith for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<hggdh> c_smith: WELCOME!
<PabloRubianes> congrats c_smith !!!
<Pendulum> c_smith: congrats and welcome!
<chilicuil> c_smith: congrats =), welcome abroad, thanks for inspire us
<c_smith> thanks.
<c_smith> may I update you with the correct date I joined the LoCoo
<c_smith> ?
<hggdh> c_smith: certainly
<bkerensa-remote> c_smith: thats not important now
<bkerensa-remote> :)
<bkerensa-remote> or ok
<c_smith> 2011-08-10
<c_smith> gotta message from someone about that, not sure they want to be identified, I'll have them come out with that part.
<c_smith> *got a
<hggdh> c_smith: thank you. and thank you for all yout work. No need to identify
<c_smith> hggdh, cool
<c_smith> will I be needed for the rest of the meeting? or can I go get the dinner I've been being hounded to grab?
<hggdh> #meetingtopic dblueman1 for Ubuntu Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | dblueman1 for Ubuntu Membership Meeting | Current topic:
<chilicuil> c_smith: feel free to get dinner
<c_smith> cool
<c_smith> I'm message me if there's anything needed.
<hggdh> dblueman1: please introduce yourself, with LP and wiki links. Please detail what you have done that warrants a membership
<c_smith> *I'm out
<dblueman1> Hi; I'm Daniel J Blueman, a software developer who's been using Ubuntu the last 8 years, contributing bug reporting, analysis and fixes. ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielBlueman , https://launchpad.net/~watchmaker , https://launchpad.net/~danielblueman for further history )
<hggdh> PabloRubianes: thank you, sir
<dblueman1> Most of my contributions relate to the linux kernel, including developing testcases to provoke bugs in btrfs, platform enablement and so on:
<dblueman1> https://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=lkml.org&q=%22Signed-off-by:+Daniel+J+Blueman
<chilicuil> have you worked with the Ubuntu Kernel team at any point? dblueman1 ?
<dblueman1> my Ubuntu-specific contributions relate to kernel configuration, so I join the Ubuntu Kernel mailing list and raise matters when eg there are things I suggest
<dblueman1> likewise for other more general Ubuntu topics with the Ubuntu dev mailing list
<dblueman1> other package-related contribution comes when I hit a package issue, then I'll open/develop a LP bug report sometimes to resolution
<dblueman1> I've been moving more to contributing at a local community level, deploying Edubuntu in two schools in Singapore and organising local Singapore and Philippines mirrors
<chilicuil> dblueman1: why you didn't ask for testimonials for your wiki application?
<dblueman1> I probably will if later I apply for Ubuntu developer membership
<dblueman1> quite a few Ubuntu developers will know me from my interactions on the Ubuntu Kernel ML and the Ubuntu Dev ML, so I could solicit testimonials
<Pendulum> dblueman1: quite honestly it's just as important to have testimonials for Ubuntu Membership applications.
<hggdh> dblueman1: this is a problem for us: although I can see you active on lkml, there is not much in #ubuntu-devel; I do not follow the kernel ml, though
<Pendulum> (and we accept testimonials from anyone, plenty of kernel team members have given testimonials for folks applying for Ubuntu Membership)
<hggdh> dblueman1: so we cannot verify your work on Ubuntu... the testimonials would help a lot
<bkerensa-remote> dblueman1: it is hard for us to guage your contributions to Ubuntu without testimonials or some tangible patches on LP
<dblueman1> I see that
<chilicuil> dblueman1: did you know that the ubuntu developer membership gives you the ubuntu membership automatically?
<dblueman1> my activity history in LP gives us that
<dblueman1> yes, though I'm applying for non-developer membership
<PabloRubianes> dblueman1, I am afraid your LP accounts have little activity
<hggdh> dblueman1: you have one code fix and a few bugs on LP that I can see. Not much to gauge participation
<dblueman1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~danielblueman
<Pendulum> dblueman1: are you involved with your local Ubuntu community at all?
<hggdh> 266 bugs total on LP
<hggdh> (reported, commented, worked on, etc)
<dblueman1> from involvement of the local Linux group here in Singapore, there is less momentum in the Ubuntu LoCo, though I plan to bring more engagement later
<dblueman1> what I value before that, is the develop the awareness of Edubuntu in education here, and in countries in SE Asia
<Pendulum> dblueman1: do you have any photos or articles or anything about the work you've done with getting Edubuntu into the schools?
<dblueman1> myself and two teachers have been preparing to document this at http://open-school.net , which I recently deployed
<dblueman1> (pending me setting up MediaWiki visual editing and other config changes)
<dblueman1> but we have a loose team of 5 people who are waiting to be involved
<hggdh> dblueman1: let us discuss a bit;
<dblueman1> I can cite a Ministry of Education award application using Edubuntu also; se
<dblueman1> sec
<dblueman1> (uploading PDF to my site)
<dblueman1> sorry to keep you
<hggdh> no prob
<hggdh> dblueman1: no worry, we are ready to vote
<hggdh> #vote dblueman1 for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: dblueman1 for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bkerensa-remote> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from bkerensa-remote
<Pendulum> +0 I'd really like to see more documentation of what you've done and some testimonials to actually show some community involvement
<meetingology> +0 I'd really like to see more documentation of what you've done and some testimonials to actually show some community involvement received from Pendulum
<chilicuil> +0, you have good stuff, however I think you can improve even further your application and involvement
<meetingology> +0, you have good stuff, however I think you can improve even further your application and involvement received from chilicuil
<hggdh> -1 missing details and testimonials; should have been provided before the meeting
<meetingology> -1 missing details and testimonials; should have been provided before the meeting received from hggdh
<PabloRubianes> -1 Im sorry but the application need a lots of improvements, please comeback un a few time
<meetingology> -1 Im sorry but the application need a lots of improvements, please comeback un a few time received from PabloRubianes
<hggdh> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: dblueman1 for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion denied
<hggdh> dblueman1: please improve your application, and come back; alternatively, you can apply for developer's, which automatically carries a membership
<dblueman1> (http://quora.org/innovation-award.pdf : Singapore Ministry of Education innovation award 2013, Edubuntu multi-seat interaction)
<PabloRubianes> dblueman1, also try to join your nearest LoCo
<dblueman1> alright; I'll work on that
<PabloRubianes> dblueman1, also things like the award should be in the wiki in the first place
<dblueman1> indeed
<PabloRubianes> if you need help improving your wiki please ask us
<PabloRubianes> we can provide feedback
<hggdh> and will be ahppy to do so
<Pendulum> definitely
<hggdh> #endmeeting
<PabloRubianes> me too
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  5 22:51:55 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-05-22.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-05-22.05.html
<dblueman1> thanks; I'll engage with local community
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-02
<jamespage> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<coreycb> o/
<zul> hi
<rharper> \o
<rcj> \o
<beisner> o/
<jamespage> ok lets go
<lutostag> o/
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<jamespage> oh joy
<smoser> o/
<matsubara> o/
 * jamespage really does not want to write the minutes manually
<rharper> cut-n paste?
<jamespage> AlanBell, are you someone who might know where meetingology has gone?
<jamespage> oh well then lets go
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage>     gaughen bug utlemming about bug 1360471
<ubottu> bug 1360471 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] update walinuxagent to 2.0.8" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360471
<jamespage> gaughen, utlemming?
<jamespage>      gaughen bug utlemming about bug 1360471
<jamespage> utlemming?
<jamespage> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360471
<jamespage> (previous actions)
<utlemming> jamespage: in progress
<jamespage> awespme
<jamespage> #topic Utopic Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> so UI freeze on the 11th - not so interesting for serer
<jamespage> server rather
<smoser> jamespage, i'll folllow up and bother utlemming.
<jamespage> Final beta 25th - so keep that in mind
<smoser> jamespage, actually. utlemming got those uploaded yesterday.
<zul> python-osprofiler, python-lxc, or openstack-granite hasnt been reviewed by an archive admin
<jamespage> smoser, yeah - needed a re-upload I think
<utlemming> jamespage, smoser: they are now in proposed and will be tested this week
<jamespage> ok
<jamespage> zul, have you been hassling the release team? I guess they need to ack first right?
<zul> jamespage: i have
<jamespage> good-oh
<zul> jamespage: and then do to be acked first
<zul> jamespage: there is a whole bunch of js stuff that need FFE for horizon as well
<jamespage> we really still do need someone on the release team for server stuff
<zul> we do
<jamespage> I talk to gaughen
<jamespage> #action jamespage to discuss release team assignments with gaughen (and release team)
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> p
<jamespage> looks like a few bugs need some attention
<jamespage> bug 1350810
<ubottu> bug 1350810 in byobu (Ubuntu Utopic) "Shift-F2 no longer working in Byobu in Ubuntu 14.10 (utopic) with tmux 1.9" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1350810
<jamespage> I'll ping kirkland about that
<jamespage> bug 1347567 needs an upload
<ubottu> bug 1347567 in openstack-trove (Ubuntu Utopic) "trove unit tests disabled" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347567
<jamespage> zul or I can deal with that
<coreycb> jamespage, I think that's merged
<jamespage> bug 1330168 is blocked by a compiler regression on arm64 right now
<ubottu> bug 1330168 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Utopic) "Please update to 5.6.19" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330168
<jamespage> coreycb, it is - just needs releasing
<jamespage> thats all the highs - I'd encourage people to actively do their bug triage rota scheduling and make sure any 14.10 relevant bugs get attention
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<jamespage> wow - we have quite alot of TODO's still
<jamespage> as we are past feature freeze please review your assigned blueprints for any features that now need to be postponed for 14.10 release - I know I have a few.
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jamespage> no caribou today - he had nothing to raise
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> jamespage: no updates from us :)
<jamespage> good-oh
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<kickinz1> There has been a patch submitted for bcache + virtio.
<jamespage> awesome
<jamespage> kickinz1, hows bcache looking generally
<jamespage> ?
<kickinz1> Quite good.
<jamespage> awesome
<kickinz1> But not sure if it is mature enough to telle everybody to use
<jamespage> ack
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> anyone going to anything interesting?
<gnuoy> There's a 0mq sprint at some point
<kickinz1> There is also the sd conference.
<kickinz1> s/sd/sdn
<kickinz1> Not sure it is usefull to go...
<jamespage> anyone going to the SDN conference?
<jamespage> nope - ok
<jamespage> moving on
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
<jamespage> anything from anybody?
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> same time next week - see you then
<jamespage> #endmeeting
<gnuoy> thanks jamespage
<kickinz1> thanks
<hallyn> thx jamespage
<jamespage> np
<chiluk> o/
<chiluk> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-03
<andreearoodrii> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-04
<infinity> o/
<jodh> \o
<cjwatson> hi
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<slangasek> hmm
<jodh> one day, we just have to do the full-team-alternating-wave thing :)
<slangasek> pantomime again today?
<mvo_> hi
<caribou_> o/
<sil2100> o/
<barry> \o
<robru> o/
<slangasek> ok then, pantomime it is
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> doko barry bhuey caribou sil2100 bdmurray jodh infinity robru mvo cjwatson slangasek stgraber
<doko> - DebConf last week, back to Berlin on Tuesday
<doko> - toolchain updates
<doko> - openjdk-7, openjdk-8 updates
<doko> - update/submit AArch64 toolchain bug reports
<doko> - fixing various ftbfs
<doko> (done)
<barry> last week: debconf
<barry> this week: short week due to usa holiday.  python issue 22327 (test_gdb failures on utopic).  python-colorama 0.3.1-1.  more experimentation with git-based package maintenance.
<barry> done
<stgraber> barry: git-based package maintenance using git-dpm, dgit or something else?
<barry> stgraber: i'm looking at both git-dpm and gbp-pq.  still trying to find good info on dgit ;)
<bhuey> folks
<barry> stgraber: see the debian-python archives for more details
<caribou> I've started on git-dpm as well
<cjwatson> dgit is kind of orthogonal to the other two
<barry> yeah
<cjwatson> barry: you could grab the video of Ian's talk at debconf
<barry> cjwatson: has it been posted yet?  i couldn't find it
<slangasek> presumably not; I believe the disks are in transit
 * barry nods
<infinity> barry: There's also git-debcherry, which Manoj tried very hard to sell me on.
<slangasek> fwiw one of the conclusions from that session was that dgit is inadequate if you want 3.0 (quilt)-ish packages
<cjwatson> hm, not in git-annex debconf-share, no
<cjwatson> *currently inadequate, I think
<barry> infinity: i heard about that too, but could find precious little docs on it
<cjwatson> barry: https://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Serializing_Git_Branches.pdf
<stgraber> barry: ok. I'm using git-dpm to maintain LXC (trusty, utopic, daily-ppa, stable-ppa), it's been working very nicely to share packaging changes between branches and to cherry-pick upstream fixes
<barry> thanks!
<cjwatson> that's Manoj's take on it, anyway.  I've heard the claim that he's incorrect about some of how git-dpm works there.  Haven't yet had the time to wade through that PDF
<slangasek> git-debcherry does in no way provide the "repo matches the archive" semantics; but it may be the pairing to make dgit behave more nicely for 3.0 (quilt)
<barry> cjwatson uses git-dpm for six and i generally like it too.  i've had more success with -dpm than gbp-pq for managing quilt patches, but it too has some odd corners
<cjwatson> There is definitely an extent where you have to pick which failure modes you care least about
<barry> yep :)
<barry> i have one more "complicated-ish" test to run then i'll have a big long posting for d-p@
<slangasek> bhuey:
<caribou> barry: pls share if possible
<barry> as an aside, git-dpm is one big shell script :-o
<barry> caribou: will do
<bhuey> Last Week
<bhuey> -vacation
<bhuey> -applied a patch to icedtea to fix a bug with a security related changes and bytecode verification, updated the package for precise/trusty/utopic
<bhuey> This Week
<bhuey> -kerberos configurations for TCK runtime testing, try to get it to work over the containers I have currently
<bhuey> -looked at font patch related bugs and whether to change the package dependency to all legacy support to change the path directly
<bhuey> -merge latest bzr changes, need to get that reviewed and then committed
<bhuey> -talked to Andrew Hughs about icedtea 2.5.2 that just came out
<bhuey> ...
<caribou> bhuey: done ?
<bhuey> yes
<bhuey> done
<bhuey> sorry
<caribou> np :)
<caribou> * More work on sosreport
<caribou> * More overhaul of packaging workflow for sosreport : More git.dpm
<caribou> * Degraded mode issue with grub when localized in french
<caribou> (done)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Further discussions regarding RTM landings and the procedures there
<sil2100> - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Writing documentation of the new CI Train features
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * Addition of sync:silonum functionality to silo sync
<sil2100>   * Bugfixes here and there
<infinity> caribou: People booting computers in French are obviously wrong.
<sil2100>   * Working on additional unit tests for RTM features
<sil2100>   * Rebasing CI Train branches-in-progress to be clean mergeable to the refactored trunk
<sil2100>   * Investigating why the build jobs got broken after recent refactoring changes
<sil2100> - Bisecting images to try understanding the media playback issue
<sil2100> - Packaging advice for some upstream developers
<sil2100> - Some work on reverting thumbnailer
<sil2100> - Analysing UITK blocked in -proposed
<sil2100> Holidays: part of annual leave - from 8th to 10th of September (next week)
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> updated daisy not to retry retracing failed crashes so we can get the queue down
<bdmurray> modifed error tracker to disregard systems with a system identifier of deadbeef (LP: #1324455)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1324455 in Daisy "Error rate calculations inappropriately include Autopilot/LRT errors" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1324455
<bdmurray> updated retracer's sources.list files per pitti's recommendations (Ubuntu RTM 14.09 and not needing previous release)
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with creating bugs from the ubuntu error tracker (daisy r524)
<bdmurray> research into apport and click packages
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1365079 regarding click package info
<ubottu> bug 1365079 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport should gather package information about click packages" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365079
<bdmurray> merged ted's whitelist / blacklist fixes to whoopsie
<bdmurray> merged evan's whoopsie merge proposal (more logging)
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader SRU for bug 1357034
<bdmurray> reported apt bug 1363257 regarding apport package failures and dpkg I/O errors
<ubottu> bug 1357034 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "apport_pkgfailure fails to run in python3" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357034
<ubottu> bug 1363257 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "string matching for dpkg I/O errors in dpkgpm.cc is out of date" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1363257
<bdmurray> uploaded and tested new version of whoopsie in utopic
<bdmurray> uploaded apt bug fixes for LP: #1353171, LP: #1363257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1353171 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "Misparses dpkg status line, fails to write apport reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1353171
<bdmurray> doko: bug 1363257 was what you were talking about last week I think
<bdmurray> uploaded apport fix for bug 1360417 to the trusty-proposed queue
<bdmurray> review of pending ubuntu-drivers-common SRU for trusty for Ara and Alberto
<ubottu> bug 1360417 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "thread_collect_info can leave out information in .crash files" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360417
<bdmurray> review of flash-kernel uploads to trusty for manjo/smoser
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> pinged plars about including /var/log/upstart/whoopsie.log in test results
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Reviewing some new upstart jobs.
<doko> bug #1363257
<jodh>   - Discussions around use of upstart dbus bridges.
<jodh>   - Working on bug 1360208. Code changes mostly done. Currently updating tests.
<ubottu> bug 1360208 in upstart "file watcher doesn't execute if combining ~ and * in the file description" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360208
<jodh>   - Released Upstart 1.13.2 and uploaded to archive.
<jodh> * systemd-shim
<jodh>   - discussions around cgmanager interaction.
<jodh>   - Reviewed and tested with fix for bug 1357252.
<ubottu> bug 1357252 in upstart "upstart can race with cgmanager when using remove-on-empty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357252
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/utopic/systemd-shim/shim-abandoncg/+merge/233280
<jodh> â¶
<infinity> - (very) short week
<infinity> - DebConf
<infinity> - Public Holiday
<infinity> - Investigate and (mostly) fix half our highbanks disappearing
<infinity> - Fielding FFe requests
<infinity> - Looking into reproducing and fixing (part of) LP: #1265192
<infinity> - Packing my life hastily into plastic bags and throwing away anything squishy I own, thanks to a "fun" discovery of a bed bug infestation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265192
<infinity> (fin)
<robru> - yo dawg, i heard you like CI, so I put your CI system under CI so you can CI while you hack on CI.
<robru> - but seriously, I cleaned up a dozen test failures in lp:cupstream2distro, and then gated MPs against it
<robru> - implemented a pep8 test for lp:cupstream2distro and cleaned up 400 out of 1200 pep8 violations
<robru> - fixed queuebot which had a bug preventing it from correctly differentiating RTM landings from utopic landings (and caused it to flood the channel with stale silo statuses every 30s)
<robru> - modified ci train dashboard to display the spreadsheet comment column, making it easier to see info where it's needed without having to cross-reference the dashboard to the spreadsheet
<robru> - landings? OVER NINE THOUSAND!!
<robru> - small optimization for NFSS graph loading logic.
<robru> - probably other stuff but it's too early to be awake
<robru> â done
<doko> bdmurray, thanks!
<mvo_> apt:
<mvo_> - Add travis-ci integration for upstream branch
<mvo_> - Fix #759655 (env polution in tests)
<mvo_> - #759612 (stack corruption),
<mvo_> - merge upload from brian
<mvo_> - fix tests for apt-cli-list
<mvo_> - Fix Bug#759264 (improve proxy detection)
<mvo_> click:
<mvo_> - Address review issues by colin (thanks!)
<mvo_> - Integration test(s) for debsig-verify itself (Bug#758615)
<mvo_> - Look into subsurface clickification
<mvo_> - lp:~mvo/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/lp1360582 updated
<mvo_> - Merge/resolve conflicts in lp:~mvo/click/more-integration-tests3
<mvo_> - Update lp:~mvo/click/lp1360582-honor-enum-only-trusted to latest lp:click/devel
<mvo_> multiarch:
<mvo_> - Work on "apt-get intall ubuntu-sdk-libs:$arch"
<mvo_> - upload accounts-qml-module, cordova-ubuntu, indicator-messages
<mvo_> - create branches for libaccounts-qt, unity-webapps-qml
<mvo_> - Work on multiarch gobject-introspection transition (ppa:mvo/gir-multiarch,
<mvo_>   lp:~mvo/+junk/gir-multiarch)
<mvo_> misc:
<mvo_> - Apt-ddtp-update
<mvo_> - Fixed utopic upgrading issue (LP: #1338069)
<mvo_> python-apt:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1338069 in wxsvg (Ubuntu) "package libwxsvg2 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libwxsvg.so.2', which is also in package libwxsvg0:amd64 2:1.3~dfsg-1ubuntu1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1338069
<mvo_> - Debug/fix version reading bug from DscSrcPackage
<mvo_> - Fix apt.debfile.DscSrcPackage.filelist
<mvo_> - improve DscSrcPackage to contain more data
<mvo_> - fix tagfile bug with latest apt
<mvo_> - update code for gnupg 1.4.18 recv-key changes (it checks the fingerprint itself finally!)
<mvo_> (done)
<cjwatson> DebConf; travel; jetlag/swap
<cjwatson>  - DebConf excellent as ever.  Still have All The Videos to watch.
<cjwatson>  - GRUB talk apparently well-received, and I got a few bites from people interested in helping out.
<cjwatson>  - Sat (barged?) in on DPMT session on git conversion.  Generally advocated git-dpm in various places.
<barry> mvo_: \o/ - did that make it into 0.9.3.9?
<cjwatson>  - UEFI Secure Boot session better-attended than expected, but still managed to get the essential bits done, namely agreeing on key generation with DSA and ftpmaster, and unblocking myself on dak testing.
<slangasek> robru: over nine thousand> is that a real stat for landings? :)
<cjwatson>  - Interesting session from people setting up a new organisation to build arm64 laptops based on existing chassis plus new board design.
<cjwatson>  - Represented Ubuntu in derivatives discussion.
<cjwatson>  - Other interesting sessions: ppc64el, state of ARM, bootstrapping, apt hacking, ad-hoc cross-building, dgit, bits from release team.
<cjwatson>  - While not in sessions: shepherded some Ubuntu transitions (perl, gnustep-gui); got a reasonable amount of d-i work done (mostly merging Ubuntu changes); click firefighting.
<mvo_> barry: haven't uploaded it yet, but your fixes are all in
<cjwatson> Giant e-mail catch-up.
<cjwatson> Merged half of UbuntuKylin seed-related changes, in ubuntu-archive-publishing; left review comment on ubuntu-cdimage half.
<barry> mvo_: thanks!
<cjwatson> Catching up on click reviews.
<cjwatson> Working on fixing up https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/click/fix-tests-installation/+merge/226077.
<cjwatson> ..
<robru> slangasek: well... maybe not all this week. ;-)
<slangasek>  * organized a party for 300 of my closest friends^W^W^W^W^W^W^W DebConf
<slangasek>  * playing catch-up now on lots of email etc
<slangasek>  * working on filling the open position in the team
<slangasek>  * helped with thumbnailer revert to unblock phone CI; libqt5multimedia really needs upgraded to gstreamer1.0!
<slangasek>  * discussions about buildd resourcing for new archs
<slangasek>  * upcoming:
<slangasek>   * working on getting IBM java into multiverse
<slangasek>   * shepherding the cgroup upstart support into RTM
<slangasek>   * RTM shepherding generally
<slangasek>   * revisit apport branch for more reliable whoopsie-upload-all on the phone
<slangasek>  * everybody book their flights for the Devices Sprint!
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> slangasek: done!  i'm flying through denver
<slangasek> stgraber:
<slangasek> barry: heh
<stgraber> sorry was reading :)
<stgraber> Short week, Monday was a public holiday.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber>  - Last Thursday was Ubuntu 14.10 beta-1 which went pretty well with most
<infinity> slangasek: ITYM release sprint, with a very large peanut gallery.
<stgraber>    flavors participating.
<stgraber>  - LXC code reviews and landing a bunch of patches.
<slangasek> somebody's trying to get their miles, I see
<stgraber>  - Did some FFe reviews.
<stgraber>  - Been having a ton of internal meetings eating most of my time, hopefully I
<stgraber>    can talk more about that stuff later.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> (DONE)
<barry> slangasek: :)
<mvo_> debconf++
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<stgraber> barry: I was thinking about connecting through Dubai myself, there are some cheap flights going through there ;)
<barry> stgraber: talk about padding your miles!
<stgraber> then I'd be sure to make gold this year ;)
<cjwatson> reminds me of the cheapest route from Chicago -> NY a couple of years ago, via Hawaai
<cjwatson> er, Hawaii.  that one.
<beuno> barry, how much did you bribe msm to have the sprint in your backyard and not have to travel?  Asking so I can start saving up for the next one
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<barry> cjwatson: with a 4 day layover?
<cjwatson> couldn't possibly comment
<stgraber> :)
<slangasek> so I know I said we would get back in the habit of having more in-depth presentations of the stuff people are working on during the weekly meetings
<slangasek> but August has been a bit scattered :/
<barry> beuno: i think you just need convince the vp of engineering to move to your back yard
<slangasek> so unless someone feels like jumping up to the mic and talking about their current activities?
<barry> slangasek: not yet, but i would be happy to talk about git packaging at some later date
<slangasek> noted!
<slangasek> so, any other business?
<mvo_> I could talk about making gir multiarch, but thats super boring
<mvo_> (so no :)
<infinity> Heh.
<doko> slangasek, pending MIR's
<doko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sparql-wrapper-python/+bug/1349899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1349899 in sparql-wrapper-python (Ubuntu) "[MIR] new b-d's of rdflib (sparql-wrapper-python, isodate)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<slangasek> phooey
<infinity> The system-image -> pip/virtualenv dep chain looks more "interesting".
<slangasek> rdflib only has one revdep in main, zeitgeist - surely this shouldn't actually be ours
<slangasek> but alas
<slangasek> can I get a volunteer to take care of that bug above?
<barry> infinity: ?
<infinity> barry: See the second tree on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<infinity> Maybe this is a bug, and that seed isn't meant to be in main at all?
<barry> infinity: oh yeah, damn, those are build-deps
<slangasek> it's a bug and we're meant to finish archive reorg, but anyway
<slangasek> ;)
<slangasek> certainly things that are on the phone /should/ be in main
<infinity> Indeed.
<barry> i guess i should file mirs for those
<caribou> pardon my ignorance, but who does the packaging of openjdk ?
<slangasek> caribou: bhuey and doko
<caribou> slangasek: ok, I had hesitation b/w both of them
<doko> bhuey, please merge openjdk-7
<bhuey> doko: yes
<caribou> bhuey: doko: I'll ping you later about bug #1286895
<ubottu> bug 1286895 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "please support systemtap traces in openjdk" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286895
<barry> infinity: what does the 'R' arrow mean?  (see python-virtualenv)
<slangasek> recommends?
<infinity> ^
<barry> oh, yeah
<barry> "python-virtualenv recommends python-virtualenv"
<doko> caribou, this is enabled in utopic. I'm hesitant if we should enable it for trusty
<caribou> doko: ok, thanks for the info
<barry> oh, hahahaha
<stgraber> barry: that's a pretty short circular dependency ;)
<barry> it's wackiness due to the binary package name transition.  there are a few steps that are not represented in that .svg
<slangasek> but is it also a quantum virtual particle^W package
<barry> :)
<slangasek> and can I emit virtualenvs in an electric field to propel a space ship
<slangasek> btw I don't think I actually got a volunteer for bug #1349899
<ubottu> bug 1349899 in sparql-wrapper-python (Ubuntu) "[MIR] new b-d's of rdflib (sparql-wrapper-python, isodate)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349899
<slangasek> so I guess I'll assign it to someone ;)
<infinity> I'm assured by my cousin at SpaceX that all space ships run on C++.
<barry> slangasek: the universe is awash in dark virtualen(v)ergy
<stgraber> slangasek: well, we don't have a lot of MIR people on the team, IIRC it's just doko and infinity
<slangasek> stgraber: the assignment is to do the MIR /paperwork/
<doko> stgraber, this is about *writing* the MIR's
<stgraber> doko: ah
<slangasek> stgraber: this is a stub bug that someone needs to complete :)
<infinity> stgraber: It's not the job of MIR people to do all the paperwork.
<infinity> It seems we all said the same thing there. :P
<doko> but it's a long time that infinity wrote a MIR ...
<doko> ;-P
 * barry searches for a finger-on-nose emoticon
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> jodh: tag, the bug is yours :)
<jodh> slangasek: que?
<slangasek> jodh: bug #1349899, please complete the MIR paperwork for these new deps of a foundations-owned package in main
<ubottu> bug 1349899 in sparql-wrapper-python (Ubuntu) "[MIR] new b-d's of rdflib (sparql-wrapper-python, isodate)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349899
<slangasek> jodh: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<slangasek> #endmeeting
 * jodh thinks he's been stabbed with a short-straw :)
<slangasek> :-)
<mvo_> heh
<stgraber> jodh: think of it about the opportunity to learn a new skill ;)
<infinity> "skill"
<infinity> There aren't enough air quotes in the world.
<stgraber> ;)
<mvo_> lol@infinity
 * jodh makes air gestures in the general direction of infinity
<infinity> I guess I should go finish (or start) waking up.
<infinity> o/
<pleia2> hi everyone
<elfy> o/
<pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
<pleia2> w00t, no bot
<pleia2> anyne from the doc or quality team yet?
<GunnarHj> I'm here from the doc team.
<elfy> ping balloons
<elfy> hi GunnarHj
<pleia2> welcome GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> o/ thanks
 * elfy saw yesterdays doc team meeting
 * balloons waves
<pleia2> #topic Documentation team
 * balloons had no idea this was happening.. zzz
<balloons> I see it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<GunnarHj> elfy: Yeah, it's much focus on the web site presentation right now.
<pleia2> so we just do these check ins once a cycle to see how the team is doing and if there is any way we can help
<pleia2> with my Doc team hat on, things are running more smoothly these days, even if the team still struggles to get active contributors to actually update the docs
<pleia2> GunnarHj: thoughts?
<elfy> well that's at least 50% good then :)
<GunnarHj> As regards the desktop documentation, I feel we are lucky there are almost no visible changes in utopic.
 * pleia2 nods
<elfy> I assume that UI changes make it all a lot harder to get done
<GunnarHj> elfy: Yes, basically the docs is almost completely associated with how you do things with the GUIs.
 * mhall119 is here now
<elfy> GunnarHj: and the bottleneck is getting suitable screenshots in good time?
<mhall119> pleia2: (with your docs team hat on) are there specific pages/sections we can promote work on during Global Jam?
<pleia2> mhall119: just a once through of the docs in general would be helpful, even if people just submit bug reports
<mhall119> pleia2: specifics would be more likely to get worked on
<GunnarHj> elfy: That often happens as a last minute thing. But writing new docs is what takes most time.
<pleia2> I can take a look at the global jam docs page and make sure the instructions are there
<mhall119> pleia2: that would be great, thanks
<pleia2> mhall119: I'll also send a mail to the list, maybe someone else has ideas re: specific pages
<elfy> GunnarHj: we have the same issue with Xubuntu docs tbh
<mhall119> thanks, the more specific items we can get across the board the easier it will be for loco teams to pick one to work on
<pleia2> yeah, the real bottleneck is tiny team doing all the work
<mhall119> GunnarHj: is there an automated way of gathering screenshots?
<GunnarHj> There is not much time left for utopic. As regards desktop docs, I'm thinking of fixing a few bugs and ship a package that will be very similar to the trusty one.
<elfy> I have firsthand experience of that pleia2 :p
<GunnarHj> mhall119: No automation that works.
<pleia2> mhall119: we have a script, just needs to be tweaked each release
<pleia2> so it often just gets done by hand
<mhall119> pleia2: is there a lot of tweaking needed each release?
<pleia2> I don't know
<GunnarHj> mhall119: We just don't use it. ;)
<pleia2> yeah, I think the people who knew how it works have moved on
<pleia2> anyway, I don't think there are any real issues with the team at this point, just typical more people needed kind of thing :)
<mhall119> is there any pro-active recruitment going on?
<GunnarHj> pleia2: I agree.
<mhall119> or just trying to retain people who show up and show interest?
<pleia2> mhall119: sometimes I go to fossetcon and tell people to contribute to docs ;)
<pleia2> aside from my blog posts here and there, I don't think there's a whole lot of active recruitment, mostly just people who show up
<mhall119> sometimes eh? that's impressive, with it being the first one ever :-P
<pleia2> which is a vast improvement from where things were last year, when people were still being ignored when they showed up (no one to welcome them)
<pleia2> everyone who was involved back then was too busy working to onboard
<elfy> that's good
<GunnarHj> We do welcome anyone who shows an interest in contributing. We are not very busy doing so, though. ;)
<pleia2> yeah
<elfy> I know at least one person who just gave up trying to get involved in the past
<GunnarHj> elfy: Can't speak for the past.
<elfy> so actually being proactive is good
<pleia2> even I gave up in the past ;)
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> ok, time to move on to quality team?
<pleia2> thanks GunnarHj :)
<GunnarHj> pleia2: No problem.
<elfy> if things are moving forward with docs then I'm \o/
<pleia2> #topic Quality team
<mhall119> me too
<pleia2> balloons: hey hey, how are things going?
<pleia2> (and anyone else here from quality :))
<elfy> o/
<elfy> :)
 * mhall119 pokes balloons 
<mhall119> wake up!
<balloons> I'm here, I'm here
<elfy> welcome balloons :)
<elfy> so how's quality - other than Xubuntu going :)
<balloons> I don't think anyone from quality will show as they most likely also didn't know about this time :-)
 * elfy sadly wanders off not being anything to do with quality 
<balloons> at any rate, quality goes well from a test writing perspective. We've maintained and expanded our testcases well as things have changed.
<balloons> From the test result perspective, I know all flavors are struggling for testers during milestones
<pleia2> we sent an email notifying in April, but didn't send a follow up one, sorry about that
<balloons> ubuntu hasn't had any milestones this cycle, so it remains to be seen what sort of response we will have
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I know life has gotten in the way of my own testing this cycle :\
<elfy> I don't often look at other peoples tracker results - is there much being reported for Ubuntu
<mhall119> balloons: do other flavors use the same testing infrastructure and technology as touch and unity desktop?
<balloons> In general I think one factor is the intimidation of tracker on folks; and the fact we haven't done any development effort on it in some time
<elfy> mhall119: xubuntu does it what it can - but autopilot doesn't work for the majority of our apps
<elfy> we use the tracker to good effect when there is actually testing being done
<balloons> mhall119, there is a base suite of AP tests for the installer than runs against all flavors, but otherwise there is no automated testing for flavors really
<balloons> otherwise yes the teams use the same setup. Everyone uses the tracker for manual result reporting, but they are not obligated to do so. So they can do other efforts outside of it, and I believe KDE does
<mhall119> AP is autopilot or autopackage?
 * elfy uses jenkins for our image tests
<balloons> sorry, kubuntu ;-)
<balloons> that said, for milestones the release team requires use of the tracker
<balloons> mhall119, AP is autopilot, sorry
<balloons> on the autopackage side of things, there isn't much general quality community involvement afaik. It's generally very specific and done by upstreams or martin and jean-baptiste
<balloons> we had a small push, but autopackage tests are better written by an upstream or package maintainer
<mhall119> that makes sense
<mhall119> does AP work against Kubuntu and Xubuntu apps? Being Qt4/5 and Gtk2 respectively?
<elfy> not for us
 * mhall119 thinks most Xubuntu stuff is Gtk2 still
<mhall119> elfy: what's the cause of it not working?
<elfy> not sure of the mix tbh mhall119
<elfy> I've no idea tbh - not a coder at all
<balloons> mhall119, for gtk2 apps there has been issues with trying to introspect them. Qt apps are MUCH nicer and respond properly
<elfy> balloons would have a better idea of the why than me
<elfy> and he did :)
<balloons> on the gtk3 side, I'm not sure we have any gtk3 app tests actually. gtk dbus sessions like to spawn lots of useless and duplicate objects
<balloons> I believe gtk3 is better in this regard
<elfy> mhall119: we had someone beginning to look for us - but r/l got in the way so it's been shelved temporarily
<balloons> that said, we do have a small set of apps that do work under gtk2
<balloons> elfy is right in that none of the apps under xubuntu will allow themselves to be introspected.
<balloons> unless they want to switch to gnome apps :-)
<elfy> ...
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> so is there anything we can help with at this point, or are things pretty much going along smoothly?
<elfy> from my perspective it's going as smoothly as it could without me having a bunch of people on tap :)
<pleia2> I am noticing a trend...
<elfy> :)
<elfy> funnily enough I notice the same trend
<balloons> I would agree. It's sad that autopilot isn't a good solution for many flavors. I guess it might be useful to try and work with the kubuntu folks a bit more, since it should work for them
 * pleia2 nods
<balloons> in general I would like to see a bigger shift to automation from manual. But yea, I've been very pleased with the maintenance of the testsuites. Just need bodies to run them :-)
<balloons> so yea, promoting things like global jam would help with that
<balloons> I think that's the biggest thing you could do
<balloons> otherwise, thanks for checking in. I'll try and mark my calendar next time so it's not a surprise
<pleia2> thanks balloons
<elfy> next time we'll remember to remind the week before as well :)
<elfy> thanks balloons
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<pleia2> anything else?
<elfy> not from me
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone :)
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<elfy> thanks all
<belkinsa> Letozaf_, are you ready?
<Letozaf_> belkinsa, yes :)
<belkinsa> Perfect. We will be starting in three minutes.
<Letozaf_> belkinsa, ok fine
<belkinsa> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  4 22:00:12 2014 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<belkinsa> Welcome to the 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board meeting.  Who is all for this meeting?
<belkinsa> #voters s-fox belkinsa
<meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa s-fox
<belkinsa> Going once.
<belkinsa> It seems that we might have to do it via the mailing-list.  Letozaf_, you already have +4, but we need one more to carry the montion.
<belkinsa> motion*
<Letozaf_> belkinsa, ok
<s-fox> i'm sorry Letozaf_  :(
<Letozaf_> s-fox, no matter
<popey> hello all
<belkinsa> We may have one coming.
<belkinsa> #voters popey
<meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa popey s-fox
<Letozaf_> popey, o/
<belkinsa> #voters cyphermox_
<meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa cyphermox_ popey s-fox
<popey> \o/ quorum
<belkinsa> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
 * Letozaf_ thanks everyone :)
<belkinsa> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<belkinsa> he format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<belkinsa> The*
<popey> oh hey Letozaf_ !
<belkinsa> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<Letozaf_> popey, hi
<belkinsa> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<belkinsa> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<belkinsa> #voters PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes belkinsa cyphermox_ popey s-fox
<belkinsa> Letozaf_, are you ready?
<Letozaf_> belkinsa, yes
<Letozaf_> Hello, My Name is Carla Sella (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlaSella). I live in northern Italy near Venice and I'm a System Administrator in the IT Department of a firm in Schio a little city.
<Letozaf_> I am not so lucky to have many Linux servers where I work but I am a Linux enthusiast.
<Letozaf_> I have had the fortune to participate UDS-R as Nichoalas Skaggs encouraged me to apply for sponsorship and to start collaborting with him on testing, I am currently member of Ubuntu Quality Team, Ubuntu Core Apps Test Writers and I enjoy writing autopilot tests for  Ubuntu Phone Core Apps.
<Letozaf_> It would be an honor to be part of the Ubuntu Comunity.
<popey> Check out those testimonials!
<cyphermox_> yeah, very nice
<popey> That's something to be proud of right there.
<belkinsa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlaSella is her wiki page
<Letozaf_> popey, :P thanks
<belkinsa> Ready to vote?
<popey> I have no questions to ask. I'm well aware of Letozaf_'s awesome work.
<s-fox> I am good to go to a vote
<popey> Surprised Letozaf_ isn't already a member.
<belkinsa> +1
<Letozaf_> popey, :P
<belkinsa> How to use #votesrequired?
<s-fox> same popey
<s-fox> use #vote and #endvote
<belkinsa> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<belkinsa> +1
<popey> +1
<s-fox> +1
<PabloRubianes> +1
<popey> Awesome work Letozaf_ !
<cyphermox_> I think Letozaf_might actually be responsible for some of the funnest bugs I've had to deal with
<cyphermox_> +1
<Letozaf_> popey, thank you
<cyphermox_> by responsible, I mean filing the bug reports
<popey> â»
<belkinsa> We have +4 here and +2 from the mailing-list/IRC.  So that is +6
<cyphermox_> I do have one question though
<belkinsa> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<belkinsa> Carp.
<s-fox> #vote $foo
<belkinsa> cyphermox_, go a head.
<cyphermox_> Letozaf_: how has COBOL programming affected your mental health? ;)
<popey> I think whatever the bot says, it's pretty clear the result of the vote.
<balloons> sorry Letozaf_ I stepped away for a second
<s-fox> :)
<Letozaf_> cyphermox_, well I must say that now days it's crazy just to think to program in COBOL :P
<Letozaf_> balloons, hello
<cyphermox_> popey: should we restart the vote to have a clear trail or just deal with the textual logs?
<balloons> I didn't know you did COBOL Letozaf_.. me too :-)
<popey> I wouldn't. The channel is clearly logged.
<cyphermox_> yes
<Letozaf_> balloons, well I wouldn't suggest to use it :P
<balloons> lol
<cyphermox_> it's just harder to read this way, but this vote is a clear approval
<belkinsa> Thanks cyphermox_.
<popey> yeah. congratulations Letozaf_ !
<cyphermox_> well, congrats Letozaf_!
 * Letozaf_ thanks everyone 
<s-fox> congratulations Letozaf_ :)
<belkinsa> Congratulations Letozaf_!
<popey> \o/
<cyphermox_> if you have a blog, make sure to follow the steps on the wiki to add it to planet.ubuntu.com!
<belkinsa> Letozaf_, please see this for help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#Benefits_of_Membership
<Letozaf_> belkinsa, ok
<Letozaf_> cyphermox_, ok
<s-fox> got to go, take care
<cyphermox_> take care s-fox
<Letozaf_> s-fox, thanks
<belkinsa> Thanks for coming everyone.
<belkinsa> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  4 22:13:26 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-04-22.00.moin.txt
<popey> \o/ That was easy
<cyphermox_> short and efficient
<belkinsa> Ineed.
<Letozaf_> thank you everyone :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-05
<jadersouza> Bom dia! AlguÃ©m que fale portuguÃªs aqui? :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-07
<elfy> hi coffeecat
<s-fox> Hello coffeecat :)
<coffeecat> hi elfy
<bapoumba> Hey coffeecat :)
<coffeecat> hello s-fox bapoumba
<s-fox> Are we expecting cariboo or iowan ?
<Iowan> Hello
<howefield> hi coffeecat :)
<coffeecat> hi howefield
<howefield> and Iowan
<elfy> not sure about cariboo
<s-fox> hello Iowan :)
<Iowan> 'lo all!
<elfy> o/
<bapoumba> Hey Iowan :)
<howefield> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Sep  7 18:05:40 2014 UTC.  The chair is howefield. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<howefield> #chair bapoumba coffeecat elfy Iowan howefield s-fox
<meetingology> Current chairs: Iowan bapoumba coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
<howefield> evening everyone, think we have an agenda to follow.
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<howefield> #meetingtopic Proposal to close and archive inactive Loco subforums
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Proposal to close and archive inactive Loco subforums Meeting | Current topic:
<howefield> #info Closing inactive Loco subforums
<howefield> #topic Proposal to close and archive inactive Loco subforums
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Proposal to close and archive inactive Loco subforums Meeting | Current topic: Proposal to close and archive inactive Loco subforums
<elfy> yep - sent mail to the LoCo Council - had no reply from them re that
<howefield> so we move with the proposal then ?
<elfy> around a month or so back - but of course the discussions goes back much further - just got put on back burner
<elfy> I'm +1 to that
<bapoumba> +1 here
<s-fox> Perhaps they need reminding?
<coffeecat> +1
<elfy> we can do that s-fox
<howefield> as far as I am aware, not so much as an acknowledgment of email, would that be right ?
<elfy> nothing howefield
<s-fox> I think 1 week is reasonable.  I would request that they acknowledge receipt
<elfy> though as I said, it's not actually anything new though
<bapoumba> I'm fairly confident another reminder wont bring in any response
<howefield> that kind says it all to me, but I'm not against a reminder
<s-fox> Do any of us come across the loco council on irc on a day to day basis?
<bapoumba> Yeah howefield, neither am I
<elfy> not often s-fox
<howefield> not me, to be fair.
<s-fox> Or hang around where they linger? :D
<elfy> I do that ;)
<elfy> at least 3 of them that I know of
<s-fox> Collar them on IRC then?
<elfy> I can do that
<elfy> suggest we #vote now though
<bapoumba> I'd be surprised they do not read their emails..
<s-fox> Brilliant
<s-fox> +1 on voting. i would press ahead if we hear nothing anyway.
<s-fox> it can always be undone at a later date
<elfy> #action Elfy to catch up with someone from LoCo Council re forum archiving
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to catch up with someone from LoCo Council re forum archiving
<Iowan> same here
<howefield> thanks elfy
<howefield> done with that, moving on ?
<elfy> I would suggest though that prior to actually doing the deed we double check there's no movement
<elfy> howefield: we can vote in here
<elfy> #vote Close and archive inactive LoCo Sub-forums
<meetingology> Please vote on: Close and archive inactive LoCo Sub-forums
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<bapoumba> +&
<coffeecat> +1
<bapoumba> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<howefield> +
<howefield> +1
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from howefield
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Close and archive inactive LoCo Sub-forums
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<howefield> great, next point
<howefield> #topic Recap on recent changes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Proposal to close and archive inactive Loco subforums Meeting | Current topic: Recap on recent changes
<coffeecat> Is it apropos to mention Brazil at this time? After setting it up for them they might as well use it.
<elfy> one thread - no revisit from the one asking us to set it up since that I saw
<howefield> yes, the Brazil forum is open, isn't it ?
<elfy> afaik it is yes
<howefield> yeah, on epost
<elfy> coffeecat: good that people are still asking us to open things
<howefield> yes it is elfy, should we promote it a bit more ?
<s-fox> We should post on planet ubuntu more often
<howefield> +1
<elfy> well - supposedly the idea was for LoCo's to use Discourse - but I don't got there enough to see what's happening
<elfy> s-fox: them with syndicated blogs at least :)
<bapoumba> Post on Planet Ubuntu, yeah, but that needs to be interesting stuff..
<elfy> nothing at all to stop us mailing uwn
<s-fox> I haven't been on discourse for sometime.  no idea what is happening there, or to be honest i have no real interest either.
<howefield> +1 elfy
<s-fox> thats true elfy
<elfy> hey PabloRubianes - quick one - did the LoCo council discuss the mail the FC sent them re sub-forums at all?
<elfy> and mailing UWN is easy :)
<bapoumba> UWN +1
<elfy> we did at one point start to look at sending stats - but that's not as easy to do as it is for AU
<elfy> but talking to community via that is \o/ imo
<bapoumba> yep
<s-fox> Whatever happened to the tutorial of the week? Wasn't that something to do with you bapoumba ?
<elfy> so - we could UWN what we've done on the forum in the last month's this week then?
<bapoumba> Tutorial of the Week needs a lot of time
<bapoumba> I do not have that right now
<howefield> @elfy yep, who's taking the action, :) I don't mind
<meetingology> howefield: Error: "elfy" is not a valid command.
<elfy> and is in fact not valid at all ...
<howefield> elfy yep, who's taking the action, ( I don't mind)
<s-fox> What if it was revived, but by someone with the time
<bapoumba> +1 from me s-fox
<elfy> howefield: don't mind - maybe action you and I for it
<howefield> are you volunteering s-fox ?
<s-fox> Possibly. I'm tossing ideas out for what to post. you said things need to be interesting :)
<elfy> we could ask rest of moderation team
<bapoumba> (I took over after K.Mandla left)
<howefield> #action howefield & elfy to contact UWN with forum news.
<meetingology> ACTION: howefield & elfy to contact UWN with forum news.
<bapoumba> There also was that interview thingy that started out with forums people and grew to the general community
<elfy> I'd suggest talking it over with mods - then we could possibly have more than one person looking at that
<howefield> seems to be a large undertaking and requiring skill
<howefield> I'll second that elfy
<bapoumba> howefield, not really, more communication, writing skills
<s-fox> i was doing the community interviews for a while. i asked a whole bunch of people, they said yes and then nothing more.  i felt awkward and kinda nagging
<s-fox> wasn't my scene :/
<bapoumba> Picking up a tutorial from the whole bunch gets to be difficult after a while
<bapoumba> after all the obvious good ones are picked
<elfy> make it monthly
<bapoumba> takes a lot of time reading
<bapoumba> I had started a list, but never got to at least 5 to 10 to start with (and have several weeks/month material)
<bapoumba> K.Mandla had a unique skill doing it
<elfy> yep - I remember
<bapoumba> and a unique way writing about them
<howefield> worth a forum thread to talk it through with the staff/members
<bapoumba> He was a journalist in another life, cannot beat that :)
<s-fox> +1 howefield
<elfy> howefield: yea - action that to FC
<bapoumba> +1, I'd be happy to contribute from time to time, but not lead
<elfy> bapoumba: I think it would be best as a team effort anyway - different strengths
<s-fox> Does it need a formal leader?  Couldn't it just be a team effort?
<bapoumba> elfy, such project usually ends up a one person thing ..
<howefield> #action FC to start discourse with staff/members to revive Tutorial of the Week.
<meetingology> ACTION: FC to start discourse with staff/members to revive Tutorial of the Week.
<elfy> bapoumba: possibly - we'd just need to make it not so somehow :)
<bapoumba> Yeah, at least to suggest tutorials that meet the requirements
<elfy> right
<elfy> ok - so moving on?
<howefield> ok, Recap on recent changes..
<howefield> what else do we have
<elfy> just that it was a general tidy up of sections and tightening up of a few things
<howefield> no complaints so far :)
<elfy> not that I'm aware of no :)
<s-fox> i like the new layout
<elfy> good ;)
<howefield> we spoke last month about the successful completion of the forum moves, is there anything further to add ?
<howefield> +1 s-fox
<elfy> not here
<s-fox> not from me
<Iowan> nope, just monthly duties
<bapoumba> I'm good with it, thanks howefield & elfy
<elfy> and we appear to have done AOB unless anyone's got anything else :)
<howefield> nothing from me :)
<s-fox> no more
<howefield> who is up for the team report ?
<howefield> after elfy did it last I think..
<Iowan> I'm probably about due...
<howefield> ok, thanks Iowan :)
<s-fox> i'll take whatever is left over
<s-fox> i am not that fussed :)
<elfy> #info Elfy is working through those on the forum with Ubuntu Member status - checking who is and isn't
<elfy> btw :)
<bapoumba> Oh thanks elfy :)
<howefield> we mentioned last month about ensuring an agenda is set up for our FC meeting with cariboo doing it for September, anyone want to take the task for Octobers meeting  ?
<bapoumba> I can do that, anywhere the agenda is discussed ?
<bapoumba> (provided I successfully log in the wiki ..)
<howefield> your choice bapoumba
<howefield> and thanks, -admins is fine I think
<bapoumba> OK
<howefield> #action Iowan to produce Team Report
<meetingology> ACTION: Iowan to produce Team Report
<bapoumba> (login into the wiki was a joke. I takes ages to log me in..)
<howefield> #action bapoumba to ensure an (Octobers) FC agenda.
<meetingology> ACTION: bapoumba to ensure an (Octobers) FC agenda.
<howefield> I think we are done, anything else ?
<elfy> not here
<s-fox> Nothing more from me
<bapoumba> not here
<Iowan> OK here
<coffeecat> nothing here
<s-fox> endmeeting?
<howefield> ok, thanks everyone
<elfy> wfm
<howefield> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Sep  7 18:53:40 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-07-18.05.moin.txt
<s-fox> take care :)
<elfy> thanks howefield
<bapoumba> thanks howefield :)
<s-fox> thank you for chairing howefield
<coffeecat> thanks howefield
<howefield> thanks all :)
<Iowan> I gotta go unload camping eqpt... then review how to do team report.
<howefield> if you need help Iowan , just shout and have fun unloading :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-31
<pishuilu> Hello, everyone. I have a question: Today no DMB meeting ?
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o!
<mdeslaur> crud, I thought I'd be first
<tyhicks> :)
<ScottK> Off by one error.
<mdeslaur> hehe
<jdstrand> hello! :)
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 31 16:35:50 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> I'll continue working on swift
<jdstrand> I have two embargoed issues
<jdstrand> I have some net cgroup investigations to do
<jdstrand> and back to touch kernel updates processes
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: your turn
<mdeslaur> is it my turn?
<mdeslaur> :)
<tyhicks> I believe so :)
<mdeslaur> I'm going to publish expat updates today
<mdeslaur> and I have some openslp-dfsg updates to test
<mdeslaur> I'm waiting on a new edk2 package to make it's way to wily so I can upload new virt-manager and libosinfo packages
<mdeslaur> and then I'll be picking something up off the list
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week also, and I'm off on friday
<mdeslaur> hrm
<mdeslaur> that's it! sbeattie, tag, you're it
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm focusing on the gcc-pie work, I'm working on comparing the latest version of hj lu's patch with the earlier version I had been carrying forward.
<sbeattie> I also need to work with jjohansen (probably when he's feeling a bit better) on the rest of the kernel update processes.
<sbeattie> I also have some apparmor patches to review
<sbeattie> That's probably it for this week, but if I have time, I'll try to pick up an MIR.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: poke
<tyhicks> sbeattie: is PIE benchmarking included in the gcc-pie work planned for this week?
<sbeattie> getting a start on it, yes.
<tyhicks> cool
<tyhicks> I'm on community duty this week
<tyhicks> I'm currently looking into bug #1478087
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1478087 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478087). The error has been logged
<tyhicks> odd
<tyhicks> I'll continue looking at touch kernel updates but got blocked on arale so I'll focus on progress around krillin and vegetahd and then will swing back to arale
<tyhicks> I need to help define an API around how snappy talks to the store
<tyhicks> and I have an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<tyhicks> ah, I'm also off on Friday
<jjohansen> I have a little bit more on my dconf review to finish up, Ill work some with sbeattie on the kernel update process, and I need to look at and respond to some stuff around unprivileged mounts and apparmor
<jjohansen> then I will focus on fixing some apparmor kernel bugs, and finishing up the stacking work
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me sarnold you are up
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I like the sound of "and finishing up the stacking work"
<jdstrand> sounds like it'll be done by friday, hehe
<tyhicks> :)
<jjohansen> hehe, s/and finishing up/and start back on the/
<jjohansen> :)
<jjohansen> I'd love for the stacking work to be done by friday though
<jdstrand> indeed :)
<tyhicks> that settles it... everything should be done by friday
<jdstrand> \o/
<tyhicks> sarnold: ping :)
<sarnold> okay, i'm back...
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week
<sarnold> I'm going to get the oval software deployed on lillypilly this week
<sarnold> and work on the juju MIR; if there are simple apparmor patches I'll probably review some of those for a chnage of scenery
<sarnold> that's me, chrisccoulson?
<tyhicks> I think there's a UK holiday today
<sbeattie> sarnold: there are a few unreviewed patches in the memory leak thread, if you're so inclined.
<sarnold> sbeattie: oh! right, the %destructor one... that's goiong to require some research :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<sbeattie> sarnold: there's a few others in there, too
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jansson.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/radare2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/web2ldap.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-h8300-hms.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/yap.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 31 17:05:40 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-31-16.35.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-01
<hallyn> \o
<kickinz1> o/
<smoser> o/
<smb> o/
<matsubara> o/
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> gnuoy is out so I get to chair today
<gaughen_> fhew
<jgrimm> o/
<gaughen_> o/
<thedac> o/
<jamespage> oh wait - I see gaughen next in the list :-)
<gaughen> too late man
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  1 16:02:58 2015 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff
<jamespage> rharper, hows that coming along?
<rharper> jamespage: oi
<rharper> hehe
<jamespage> carry over?
<rharper> same place as last week
<smb> jamespage, There is a Debian packaging in process right now
<jamespage> #action rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff
<jamespage> smb, oh - right
<rharper> maybe;  I'll likely have a session on that at our next sprint and have something proposed for 16.04
<jamespage> smb, is that uploaded or pending FFe?
<jamespage> rharper, sounds like one for the  next sprint
<jamespage> rharper send email to TB about bcache-utils into trusty
<smb> jamespage, was uploaded to Debian but had some FTBS afaik
<jamespage> rharper, that one was for you as well
<arges> we're fixing a build bug or rather kamal is
<smb> When that is resolved we try some other ffe
<jamespage> ack
<rharper> jamespage: I've got it ready for review; need to sync with maas team on details w.r.t whether bcache-tools goes into the default image or if it's OK to be just in-archive
<rharper> I'll send it out for server team review today
<jamespage> ok - sounds like we can remove that from the list
<jamespage> next
<jamespage> smoser, rharper get other packages into cloud-image necessary for storage features.
<jamespage> I'm assuming thats linked to your comment above?
<rharper> it's related, though we did want to have wily get all 3
<rharper> in the installed image IIRC
<rharper> smoser: ^^
<rharper> and then discuss whether to update/change previous images
<smoser> rharper and i will look at that later today ?
<smoser> rharper, ^ the '?' was to you.
<rharper> especially trusty w.r.t new features which may regress folks
<rharper> smoser: yes
<smoser> but lets talk about that.trusty is more complex.
<rharper> correct
<jamespage> ok - lets move on - sounds like you guys have it in hand
<jamespage> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> UI and Doc freeze coming up in the enxt two weeks
<jamespage> Beta Freeze on 24th probably the most pertinent - for this meeting
<jamespage> as I think we'll be doing the Final beta right?
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jamespage> hmm sparese
<jamespage> sparse rather
<jamespage> looks like a few problems
<jamespage> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1478149
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1478149 in python-tornado (Ubuntu Wily) "python-tornado tests fail against python3.5" [High,Triaged]
<jamespage> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1469214
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1469214 in irqbalance (Ubuntu Wily) "HP ProLiant m400 Server crashes with unhandled level 3 translation fault" [Medium,Triaged]
<jamespage> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1474667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1474667 in ceilometer (Ubuntu Vivid) "log dir permissions are incorrect" [Undecided,In progress]
<jamespage> needs a priority
<jamespage> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1481337
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1481337 in keepalived (Ubuntu Vivid) "keepalived makes a floating IP available on more than one host after configuration reload" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jamespage> smoser, rbasak - I think I saw you guys discussion that one right?
<jamespage> oh and http://launchpad.net/bugs/1398999
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1398999 in nova (Ubuntu Wily) "Block migrate with attached volumes copies volumes to themselves" [Undecided,Triaged]
<smoser> well, i put some comments tehre. yeah.
<jamespage> hmm - looks like some movement in libvirt 1.2.17 and above with regards to block migration
<hallyn> smb, zul: ^ seen that?
<jamespage> but we don't have that in wily yet - can we see if we can pull something in - that sounds useful
<jamespage> ?
<smb> hallyn, nope
<jamespage> thats a really important bug to resolve with regards to instance migration on compute nodes for openstack
<rharper> jamespage: is it sufficient to pull in just that or all of 2.17  ?
<jamespage> rharper, I'd defer to those more knowlegable but I suspect a pick is just fine
<rharper> arges zul and hallyn can confirm the PITA that is libvirt
<rharper> jamespage: ok
<jamespage> rharper, can you confirm an owner?
<rharper> jgrimm: ^^
<rharper> jamespage: punting to mangler to assign
<jamespage> I've raised a libvirt task as well
<jamespage> ack
<arges> libvirt 1.2.18 can be synced btw
<jgrimm> rharper, ack
<hallyn> zul: were you going to merge 1.2.18 this week?
<jamespage> #action jgrimm to look for owner for libvirt cherrypick or sync
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm to look for owner for libvirt cherrypick or sync
<arges> also libvirt-python is behind too
<jamespage> sounds like things need a catchup
<jamespage> jgrimm, ok if I leave that with you to chase?
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jamespage> caribou is not here
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<jgrimm> jamespage, yessir
<jamespage> jgrimm, ta
<matsubara> nothing new to report jamespage
<jamespage> ack matsubara
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<jamespage> ola kernel team
<jamespage> anything to report, or any questions for the kernel guru's?
<smb> oops
<smb> nothing new here
<smb> should not scroll back an active meeting
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jamespage> that's a new one
<jamespage> I think I should make more effort to attend these meetings
<jamespage> anything we need to submit for?
<hallyn> is fosdem coming up?
<hallyn> wow, too late already
<jamespage> really?
<jamespage> yikes
<hallyn> oh maybe not
<jamespage> no not yet
<hallyn> k :)
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> anything?
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jamespage> anything to discuss?
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jamespage> 8th September 1600 UTC - chair with be gnuoy
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  1 16:24:39 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-01-16.02.moin.txt
<jamespage> thanks folks
<kickinz1> Thanks James.
<beisner> thanks jamespage & welcome back!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  1 17:00:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<smb> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<apw> o/
<kamal> o/
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> we can come back to the Wily kernel update
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Vivid (henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Vivid (henrix)
<henrix>  Status for the main kernels, until today:
<henrix>    *     Precise - Verification & Testing
<henrix>    *      Trusty - Verification & Testing
<henrix>    *  lts-Utopic - Verification & Testing
<henrix>    *      Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<henrix>  
<henrix>  Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>    * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix>  For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>    * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix>  
<henrix>  Schedule:
<henrix>  
<henrix>  cycle: 16-Aug through 05-Sep
<henrix>  ====================================================================
<henrix>           14-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<henrix>  15-Aug - 22-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<henrix>  23-Aug - 29-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<henrix>  30-Aug - 05-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<henrix> ..
<ogasawara> jsalisbury: dang it, my connection dropped here
<ogasawara> jsalisbury: I assumed I missed it
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have rebased our Wily master-next branch to 4.2 final from upstream.
<ogasawara> We are pushing to get this uploaded to the archive asap.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 24 - Final Beta (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  8 - Kernel Freeze (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 15 - Final Freeze (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 22 - 15.10 Release (~7 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> phew
<ogasawara> ..
<rtg> ogasawara, just uploaded a few minute ago
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  1 17:08:38 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-01-17.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-03
<barry> mumble seems unhappy
<infinity> I was just going to say.
<slangasek> alas
 * slangasek waves
<bdmurray> works for me
 * barry renames it grumble
<slangasek> yeah, it's working here
<cyphermox> works here
<barry> bdmurray: rejects password
<infinity> Yeah, reject for me too.
<caribou> barry: here too
<tdaitx> not working here, bad password it says
<slangasek> hmm
<infinity> Oh, SSO is down.
<tdaitx> yeah
<slangasek> oh?
<barry> i guess it only hates some of us
<cyphermox> then it just went down
<slangasek> or some of us already had valid tokens?  because I connected after barry said it wasn't working
<barry> slangasek: that could be
<slangasek> I guess if it's an SSO problem, other chat solutions are also out at the moment ;)
<barry> i'm connecting on a different box
<slangasek> well, first thing's first
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  3 15:04:03 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> tdaitx doko infinity slangasek robru sil2100 caribou barry pitti bdmurray cyphermox
<tdaitx> hurray!
<tdaitx> Current
<tdaitx> - Fixed FTBFS in bluez-tools (LP: #1489661, Debian #797128); forwarded fix upstream (accepted)
<tdaitx> - Fixed FTBFS in bluez-tools (LP: #1490204, Debian #797356); fowarded fix upstream (accepted)
<tdaitx> - Fixed FTBFS in opencsg (LP: #1490091); no debian backport, debian does not use opengles2 for qt4-x11
<tdaitx> - Fixed FTBFS in jruby (LP: #1490323)
<tdaitx> - Fixed FTBFS in openscad (LP: #1489992)
<tdaitx> - Updated libjoda-time-java from 2.7 to 2.8.2 (LP: #1491530, Debian #797842)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1489661 in bluez-tools (Ubuntu) "bluez-tools FTBFS on wily-proposed due to AM_LDFLAGS misuse" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489661
<tdaitx> - Investigating JRuby FTBFS due to failing spec tests (LP: #1491526); seems like many are due to build environment setup (eg. non-existing $HOME); local chroot has 2 failures and 2 errors, lp build has 21 failures and 13 errors
<ubottu> Debian bug 797128 in bluez-tools "bluez-tools FTBFS on wily-proposed due LDFLAGS misuse" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/797128
<tdaitx> - Investigating openscad FTBFS on armhf (LP: #1491553, Debian #797816); there are lots of failures in LP and Debian due to conflicting declaration between GL and ES2 (search for "khronos_ssize_t gl3.h"); any reason not to define "khronos_ssize_t" as "ptrdiff_t" instead of "signed long int"?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1490204 in bluez-tools (Ubuntu) "bluez-tools FTBFS on wily-proposed in 64-bit archs due to implicit pointer conversion" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490204
<tdaitx> - Setting up JCK 7 to run localy for trusty
<tdaitx> Next week
<ubottu> Debian bug 797356 in bluez-tools "bluez-tools FTBFS in 64-bit archs due to implicit pointer conversion" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/797356
<tdaitx> - Guarantee that local JCK 7 tests are running fine for trusty, then move those to canonistack
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1490091 in opencsg (Ubuntu) "opencsg 1.4.0-1 FTBFS on armhf" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490091
<tdaitx> - Additional tests for JDK6 TLS 1.1 and JDK7 TLS 1.2 backports, need to reproduce user report as I might have a regression in JDK 7 (LP: #1482924)
<tdaitx> - Setup and use umt schroots, check if that setup is closer to
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1490323 in jruby (Ubuntu) "jruby FTBFS due to missing libjzlib-java dependency" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490323
<tdaitx> - Reviews by OpenJDK project of the TLS backports for JDK6 and JDK 7 still requires OCA clearance
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1489992 in openscad (Debian) "openscad ftbfs in wily" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489992
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491530 in libjoda-time-java (Debian) "Update libjoda-time-java to 2.8.2 to fix timezone" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491530
<ubottu> Debian bug 797842 in libjoda-time-java "libjoda-time-java: Update libjoda-time-java to 2.8.2 to fix timezone" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/797842
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491526 in jruby (Ubuntu) "jruby FTBFS when running mspec tests" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491526
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491553 in openscad (Ubuntu) "openscad FTBFS in armhf due to conflict declaration of headers gl3.h and glew.h" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491553
<ubottu> Debian bug 797816 in openscad "openscad FTBFS in armhf due to conflict declaration of headers gl3.h and glew.h" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/797816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482924 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Regressions due to USN-2696-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482924
<doko> - GCC: build for POWER8, two backports for regressions on ARM32 and ppc64el, branch updates, package libstdc++fs.a
<doko> - openjdk-7 update
<doko> - gdal & friends transition
<doko> - boost1.58 transition, removed boost1.55, and old icu
<doko> - again, helped kubuntu with transitions. now all migrated
<doko> - cleared NBS
<doko> - almost cleared update_output.txt
<doko> - tracked down cyclicy dependencies in java packages (gradle, groovy2, stringtemplate4, one more) and asked for manual builds
<doko> - updated java related, which were behind in debian
<doko> - llvm-3.7 final, still ftbfs on i386 and powerpc
<doko> - some python3.5 related fixes
<doko> - integrated some pending openjdk-8 patches
<doko> (done)
<infinity> [ Short week, due to illness ]
<infinity> - Kernel SRU work
<infinity> - NEW reviews
<infinity> - General SRU/AA work
<infinity> - Infrastructure work
<infinity> - Discussions and planning for s390x bootstrap
<infinity> - More glibc 2.22 work, expect upload Fri/Mon
<infinity> (done)
<slangasek>  * follow through on g++5 transitions, mostly reverting library name changes that Debian has opted not to take
<slangasek>  * code review of ci-train code for new jenkins job security model
<slangasek>  * ramping up for the s390x port
<slangasek>  * working with dannf on getting edk2 buildable for arm64 with gcc5
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru>  - set PPA description to show silo configuration
<robru>  - include tests in code coverage report, revealing some unused test helpers I've now deleted
<robru>  - Define an 'install' target in the makefile which installs needed deps, so that they're no longer defined in 3 different places (s-jenkins -ci and -autolanding jobs, plus charm)
<robru>  - Eliminate honor system allowing trainguards to spoof core devs during silo publication
<robru>  - better error messages for some failure conditions
<robru>  - workaround some lazr/lplib bugs
<robru>  - instead of using bot name in debian/changelog, use request creator's name
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru>  - add some new API endpoints to ease common use cases
<robru>  - merge dashboard into requests page, dropping a ton of redundancy
<robru>  - Unify 3 disparate dependency definitions into one central location in the Makefile in trunk.
<robru>  - redirect to the newly created request when creating new requests, and dim the submit button when submitting, should alleviate users creating lots of duplicate records
<robru>  - initial db migrations, adding some columns and changing some column types as necessary
<robru>  - fix URL linkifier regex to not break when URL ends with punctuation
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru>  - new upgrade spec dramatically simplifying production rollout procedure
<robru> Mad Max game
<robru>  - Cleared Chumbucket's territory
<robru>  - cleared a decent area of Jeet's territory
<robru> (fin)
<barry> robru: was that last bit just to see if we're paying attention? :)
<robru> barry: ;-)
<tdaitx> well, it did get my attention
<caribou> sil2100 doesn't seem here
<robru> vacation
<caribou> k then my turn
<slangasek> tdaitx: package builds shouldn't rely on $HOME being set fwiw; if something wants to write to $HOME during the build, create a scratch directory inside the package build tree and set the env var to point there
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - lucid -> precise -> trusty upgrade issue
<caribou>    * Unbootable system after upgrade (LP: #1491894)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491894 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "lucid to precise to trusty upgrade may leave system unbootable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491894
<caribou> Merges:
<caribou>  - rsyslog merge : spent most of the time on merging 8.12
<caribou>    then fixing FTBS. rsyslog 8.12.0-1 is now available
<caribou> Investigate Core Dev application
<caribou> âDone
<barry> py35 transition ongoing
<barry> dh-python syncpackage testing (pyqt5, mock, mako);
<barry> main+flavor ftbfs analysis (see ppa-status script);
<slangasek> sil2100 is on vacation yes
<barry> filing bugs, fixing bugs where possible, detailed ftbfs analysis (sometimes due to deps several levels deep), contacting upstreams, status reports.
<barry> python-pykmip w/o python3-enum34 (removed from archive).  python-zeroconf 0.17.2-1.  deja-dup 34.0-1ubuntu3 (succeeds in archive, fails in ppa due to libunity ftbfs).  chatting w/zyga re: checkbox ftbfs.  LP: #1491162.  autopilot ftbfs (succeeds in archive, fails in ppa due to testtools).  six 1.9.0-5.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1491162 in six (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in Wily" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491162
<barry> will be sending detailed summary to ubuntu-devel later today
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> pitti has a conflict this afternoon but sent me his status
<slangasek> apport:
<tdaitx> slangasek, do you recall any package that does that? I would like to take a look and replicate it
<slangasek> - several bug fixes/optimizations requested by bdmurray (#1487174, #1485773, etc.)
<slangasek> - stop requiring apt lists to make origin check work with system-images (#1489410)
<slangasek> autopkgtest:
<slangasek> - Spent way too much time trying to find a non-hackish solution to detect and clean up leaked background processes which cause eternal hangs (hello deja-dup tests!) (#1488359)
<slangasek> - various bug fixes and stabilization from daily test watching
<slangasek> - enable britney/cloud testing for precise (mostly for kernel/dkms)
<slangasek> - Implement autopkgtest/worker/britney changes for running DKMS tests against multiple kernels
<slangasek> - Finish documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure
<slangasek> systemd:
<slangasek>  - resumed working on networkd integration, have if-up.d/if-post-down.d/ support working now (in review)
<slangasek>  - package 225, various bug fixes
<slangasek> misc:
<slangasek>  - fix various package test regressions to unblock stuff in -proposed
<slangasek>  - clean up and generalize SRU policy for new LTS features, send proposals to TB
<slangasek>  - big catch-up on bug triage
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> tdaitx: If a testsuite actually relies on $HOME in a way that's a pain to patch out, you can just mkdir foo && HOME=foo ./testsuite
<barry> tdaitx: tox used to but doesn't need to any more.  you might find a solution in its older vcs history
<infinity> tdaitx: But I generally view that as an upstream bug worth fixing.
<slangasek> tdaitx: not offhand no, but what infinity said
<slangasek> being sure to also remove foo/ in the clean target then
<bdmurray> investigation into gtk+3.0 trusty crash rate increase and bucket not updating
<bdmurray> found and resolved an issue with how crash reports that have previous failures to retrace are bucketed
<bdmurray> wrote code to bucket unbucketed OOPSes
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding allocating retracers to the failed queues
<bdmurray> modification of daisy-retracer charm to support retracing the failed queue
<bdmurray> worked with webops to sort out status of retracer for the failed queue
<bdmurray> review list of core files currently in swift so we can remove Utopic crashes
<bdmurray> rebuilt test crashes for current package versions
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for ubiquity package hook in apport to W
<bdmurray> talked to pitti about LP: #1485787 and LP: #1485773
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1485787 in apport (Ubuntu Vivid) "package_hook does not include package version" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485787
<bdmurray> investigation into apport not adding origin information to foreign packages
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1485787 in apport (Ubuntu Vivid) "duplicate for #1485773 package_hook does not include package version" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485787
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with the bug bot OOPSing when tagging ubiquity bugs
<bdmurray> SRU review of python-neutronclient fixing a regression in V -updates
<bdmurray> SRU verification of T, V fix for LP: #1485787
<bdmurray> review of patch for software-properties LP: #1381050
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1381050 in software-properties (Ubuntu) ""Import Key File" fails when the path of the file has special characters" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1381050
<bdmurray> â done
<infinity> (mumble is back)
<cyphermox>  - debugging of NM autopkgtests
<cyphermox>  - sponsored/reviewed some ubiquity-slideshow MPs
<cyphermox>  - updated doxia
<cyphermox>  - sponsored golang, dh-golang
<cyphermox>  - working on ubiquity update, fixing new PEP8 errors
<cyphermox>  - skiboot (opal-prd) update and SRU
<cyphermox>  - fixing util-linux 'lscpu -p' bug on ppc64el (bug 1427995)
<cyphermox>  - debugging more parted/multipath issues: bug 1473903
<ubottu> bug 1427995 in util-linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "lscpu -p is showing wrong values for Node component" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427995
<cyphermox>  - testing ubiquity timezone map update for Pyonyang time
<ubottu> bug 1473903 in parted (Ubuntu) "parted will generate two devices when adding one partition on mpath device" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473903
<cyphermox>  - preparing rrdtool FFE for sync.
<cyphermox> robru: personally, I'm still more partial to playing Minecraft in my free time, don't know about Mad MAx...
<cyphermox> (done)
<tdaitx> infinity, slangasek, barry thanks, I will check if the jruby folks can update their test
<robru> cyphermox: ;-)
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<infinity> tdaitx: It's widely considered very poor practice in the free software world for a build to ever leave its build tree, so shouldn't be a hard sell upstream.
<tdaitx> infinity, indeed, but right now I'm not sure if the mspec tests is something they own or just got from somewhere else
<cyphermox> no questions from me
<slangasek> tdaitx: either way, worst case is they should be able to do the same HOME= trick upstream :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<barry> monday is a usa holiday
<slangasek> o yes
<cyphermox> Monday is a holiday in Canada too
<caribou> as surprizing as it may seem, it is *not* a holiday in France
<tdaitx> wut? it is a holiday in Brazil as well
<infinity> caribou: The French would have to work before it would make sense to observe Labour Day.
<doko> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<slangasek> infinity: they already celebrated it in May, be impressed that they're not taking it twice
<doko> at least in main, there is some stuff belonging to foundations ...
<barry> so, summer ends in may in france?
<cyphermox> doko: I'll fix up curl today.
<slangasek> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/#core specifically, I believe?
<cyphermox> (not ftbfs, but you know what I mean)
<doko> curl isn't on this list ;p
<slangasek> doko: or is there something other than those that you wanted to draw attention to?
<cyphermox> not yet!
<cyphermox> :)
<infinity> cyphermox: You mean the curl-udeb thing?
<cyphermox> yeah
<barry> i'll look in to python-*
<infinity> cyphermox: I think fixing maas is the right answer.
<doko> plus: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-ppc64el-20150902-wily.html  (note these are not ppc64el only)
<cyphermox> infinity: it is
<infinity> cyphermox: Given that curl-udeb was empty before it was dropped, so they can't possibly have been using it. :P
<cyphermox> oh, it was?
<infinity> Yeah.  That's why it was dropped.
<infinity> It was clearly broken for several releases.
<cyphermox> heh
<infinity> With not a single person complaining.
<infinity> Which is a fair sign no one was using it.
<barry> hahahaha dep-wait on pypy*
<doko> barry, look first at the pypy MIR, then these will clear up ;-P
<doko> dh-exec
<cyphermox> infinity: it's not a very much used feature, it's mostly just enrolling maas devices via the ISO
<doko> rpm
<cyphermox> I'll ask harder if we can just drop that altogether...
<doko> sssd?
<infinity> cyphermox: Oh, the "enlist in MaaS" bootloader option on the server CD?
<doko> libpod-readme-perl
<infinity> cyphermox: If that actually relied on curl-udeb, they haven't tested it in years...
<cyphermox> infinity: well, it's maas-enlist-udeb that requires curl-udeb
<slangasek> doko: heh, rpm shows up as part of the ubuntu-desktop package set, not core
<infinity> doko: sssd is RAOF's.
<cyphermox> the only thing I could think of to use that was the enlist in MAAS option from the CD
<doko> and a lot of perl stuff here: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<infinity> cyphermox: Your logic is sound, but they supposedly test that feature.  So, could need more investigating.
<cyphermox> easy enough to test anyway
<infinity> Oh look, another java/maven explosion.
<infinity> Why, java, why?
<infinity> doko: The majority of those perl modules can probably get hand-waved in with a minimal review and subscriber, but I guess we should file a big bug and go through the motions.
<slangasek> tdaitx, robru: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/#core should be driven to zero for release, can you take a look at these and see which ones you can help with?  (feel free to ask any of the core-devs if you have questions)
<robru> slangasek: sure
<tdaitx> slangasek, sure
<doko> infinity, likely, but maybe check as well if they are maintained by the perl team
<cyphermox> infinity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12263705/ don't think they were testing it, otherwise it magically worked without that for some reason
<infinity> doko: Yeah.  Most probably are, they have most of CPAN packaged. :P
<cyphermox> (that's from debian-cd)
<doko> java is known, and ruby is known too, wanted somebody to look at rails; how we can avoid it
<infinity> cyphermox: Well, it may well be that maas-enlist-udeb doesn't actually need curl-udeb.
<infinity> I'll pick up the firefox FTBFS, I'm sick of arguing with people about it.
 * pitti rentre -- qu'est-ce que j'ai perdu ? :-)
<slangasek> pitti: un peu de ceci, un peu de c'lÃ 
<infinity> in 250
<slangasek> pitti: we're just about wrapped here, can you join mumble?
<infinity> ...
<pitti> I'm in
<slangasek> I think we're done here then
<slangasek> unless there's anything else
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  3 15:35:54 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-03-15.04.moin.txt
<dholbach> hello hello
<czajkowski> Aloha
<czajkowski> welcome to this weeks CC
<czajkowski> feels like a bit of a game show!
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  3 17:00:47 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> #chair czajkowski mhall119 pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach mhall119 pleia2
<pleia2> o/
<dholbach> Do we have folks from the IRC Council and Canonical Community team here?
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> ^^ agenda
<balloons> o/
<pleia2> I don't think anyone sent a reminder to the IRC Council
<dholbach> ok, let's start with the community team then and I'll try to ping the IRC Council folks
<hggdh> pleia2: a reminder was sent
<pleia2> hggdh: oh good :)
<czajkowski> dholbach: balloons mhall119 so life on the community team
<czajkowski> is dpm around
<dholbach> thanks hggdh!
<hggdh> btw, hi all, long time and all that
<pleia2> hggdh: welcome :)
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> popey: howdy
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Canonical Community team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the Canonical Community team
<popey> I have some opinions :)
<balloons> so, there's some things I wanted to bring up, but they are mostly based on popey's thoughts. I'll let him speak first if he wishes
<popey> nah, knock yourself out
<czajkowski> balloons: do tell, but please don't injure you're self
<czajkowski> :)
<dholbach> haha
<balloons> :-) Ok, my first thought was bringing up how we deal with contributions. It's the second half of the lifecycle for contributing. We spend time and effort encouraging folks to contribute, but once they do, we sometimes falter
 * dholbach has opinions on that subject too :)
<balloons> There are both good examples and bad examples of this. For instance, we do wonderfully on the core apps projects, while we have patches sitting waiting in other places
<dholbach> yeah... I just raised the subject with the engineering managers for Ubuntu again - sponsoring and patch review for stuff going into the distro sort of went a bit on the backburner for many and patches had been piling up again
<balloons> I would be curious how we might be able to close this gap a bit better. Is there something collectively we could do and/or encourage the community to do to insure we are good stewards of people's contributions?
<popey> yeah
<dholbach> I haven't checked other queues (NEW, SRU, +1 maintenance, MIR, etc.), but I can imagine that these might require more attention too
<popey> I had a ranty email from a community contributor recently who was annoyed that his merge proposals took a long time to be reviewed
<dholbach> me too
<balloons> is it something we can empower the community collectively to do? AKA, are there not enough people to review the work?
<czajkowski> popey: how long was long?
<popey> could be days to weeks
<czajkowski> and is there way we can get more eyeballs on stuff in a more fun way to do it, as I know folks are busy but it's also a necessity
<popey> One issue is many canonical people work closely on irc, and are happy to ping eachother
<dholbach> the patch pilot programme was supposed to guarantee that everyone within the distro team with upload rights had 4h/month (or one hour per week) to help out
<popey> Joe: "Hey, bob, can you review that merge on your project?"
<popey> Bob: "Sure, I'll get to it in a bit"
<popey> job done
<dpm> o/
<popey> community person contributes and it looks like it disappears into a black hole
<popey> I am guilty of this too, not pointing fingers at others.
<dholbach> I hope that we can get more energy into this again
 * dpm and mhall119 I were having a really interesting call with the Mycroft folks
<czajkowski> popey: aye I think at times the IRC ping often doesnt help folks not on irc
<czajkowski> who may be working
<dholbach> and some of the engineering managers are discussing the subject right now
<czajkowski> and taking things to a public mailing list to show how easy it is to get feedback ina constructive manner
<popey> czajkowski: indeed, and not knowing that people are approachable
<popey> czajkowski: and some people actually _not_ being approachable
<czajkowski> popey: exactly
<dholbach> yeah, you can't say on a wiki page "ping popey to get your patch reviewed and included" :)
<czajkowski> nail on the head :)
<popey> (e.g. berating someone for pinging them which disturbs them, contributors should ask in public so as not to disturb individuals)
<dholbach> that's why we had current patch pilots in the topic in #u-devel
<popey> exactly!
<czajkowski> It may be better to encoureage people when they see people being pinged on irc, to suggest can we move this to the ML so others can see how it's done
<czajkowski> popey: balloons dholbach which ml would this go to ?
<dholbach> a request for a review of a patch?
<czajkowski> devel- devel-discuss, elsewhere?
<czajkowski> dholbach: aye
<dholbach> both should work
<popey> not sure
<dholbach> I hope that with support from management we can at least have Canonical engineers help out more regularly again
<czajkowski> could we try for the next few weeks to push to -devel-discuss - I know moderation can be an issue ?
<dholbach> I'd leave the mailing list as last resort for the urgent cases
<popey> yeah
<dholbach> we shouldn't ask people to mail the mailing list for everything
<popey> irc is way easier / faster
<popey> but we shouldn't have to go round poking people
<balloons> I would also like to think about a way to monitor this and be proactive on our end a bit. Especially since things are backlogged now
<popey> people who are upstream for a project should act like one
<czajkowski> popey: hmm but what about the people who want to contribute that aren't on IRC
<balloons> I would rather see us gently nudging upstreams to be more receptive. An MP should be enough to get the contact going
<dholbach> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/1glance-sponsoring/
<dholbach> if you click on "year"
<dholbach> you can see that the last call for help seems to have done something
<balloons> yea, you can see when you issue the calls :-)
<popey> czajkowski: why arent they on irc? everyone is on irc.
<czajkowski> popey: that whole work thing :)
<czajkowski> dholbach: nods
<dholbach> popey, there are upstream developers and debian folks and others who just want to do a drive by contribiution
 * hggdh respectully disagrees from popey
<popey> it was somewhat tongue in cheek
 * hggdh removes disagreement
<popey> dholbach: i agree, and we should pick those up and not let them languish
<dholbach> yep, agreed
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> so you mentioned other issues?
<czajkowski> what are they ?
<dholbach> maybe we can review in a couple of weeks again and see if the recent discussions helped change something
<dholbach> balloons, popey: was your point mostly just about sponsoring?
<popey> mine wasnt
<dholbach> ok, then I'll get out of the way now :)
<popey> mine was a cultural change, more of an observation
<dpm> I think it's about MPs and upstreams too
<czajkowski> popey: do tell
<popey> Are we done with the other topic though?
<balloons> my point was about us collectively encouraging a better culture in our upstreams as well. But the boots on the ground work from dholbach is part of it
<czajkowski> balloons: cool can we try encouraging more people to review over the next few weeks
<dholbach> I wonder if most developers in an upstream project are signed up for mails about new MPs...
<czajkowski> see if it makes a difference and if not lets come back and see if we need to take to ML or what we need to do
<balloons> yes, and given the changes to LP, we should encourage people to review filtering. I'm guiltly of this. I filtered out those mails
<balloons> because it was hard to get the right mix without getting overwhelemd
<balloons> the lp team just redid this (I for instance often miss important mails, like renewing in a team)
<dholbach> maybe it'd be good to write up best-practices "how to be a good upstream" with a few paragraphs on "how to set up your project in LP"?
<popey> yeah, me too
<popey> my gmail has thousands of mails, this is why i rely on web pages with lists of things to do
<balloons> +1, dholbach. That's the action I'd like to see, and I think we could do
<popey> rather than email
<czajkowski> dholbach: brilliant idea
<dholbach> I'm not sure if that'd solve all problems - you still need to do your reviews
<czajkowski> dholbach: I see a to do AI for you then :)
<dholbach> but it could be a first good step
<dholbach> czajkowski, erm....... I'm convinced :)
<dholbach> but yeah, I can have a look around and see what the current LP docs offer
<dholbach> and bring that up for renewed discussion
<czajkowski> nods
<dholbach> happy to do that
<czajkowski> lovely jubbly thanks
<czajkowski> popey: so back over to you.
<popey> okay
<popey> this is an observation about our team, and not an opinion or conclusion
<popey> Since jono left things have been a bit different.
<popey> So when things went "wrong" outside canonical jono would typically swoop in wearing a cape and write a blog post
<czajkowski> nod
<czajkowski> s
<popey> we tend not to do that now
<popey> we don't have as quite a public figure as jono
<popey> the role changed
<czajkowski> It did
<popey> the result of this (IMO) is that sometimes a long time goes between adverse things happening and us responding
<popey> some would say thats actually a good thing
<popey> because we're not knee-jerk responding
<popey> but taking more time and considering things rather than jumping on the PR train and writing rapid replies
<czajkowski> popey: I think the other thing that has happened, in that some on the team are a lot more vocal online and then get picked up as the "canonical community manager said X" but dont add the name to the role and that adds confusion, at least imo
<popey> my observation is that this means we (more) often go "silent" on the community about particular topics
<popey> I don't know how I feel about this, whether it's good or bad, whether it's seen as good or bad from outside.
<czajkowski> so I think taking a step back
<balloons> I would agree folks are a bit more gunshy on joining a topic, which leads to the banter being set for the community by others
<popey> I just see it more often now than in the past
<czajkowski> taking time to respond is a good thing
<czajkowski> I'm just worried that being too slow to reply leads to too much fud and not enough clearning things up in a manner I guess we're used to
<czajkowski> it can feel cut off and not knowing what's going on  - unless you pop on irc and ask :)
<czajkowski> so for me and I've said this , not having one focal main manager had been confusing especially on topics like you've just raised popey .
<dholbach> mh, I'm not sure
<czajkowski> popey: part of me feels others are waiting for someone else to step in and reply and that leave it down to one or not at all.
<balloons> I think it's good in the sense, we are mindful about what we say. However, we are ending up being reactionary in conversations and being dragged into side conversations
<dholbach> I mean many of us have been around for ages in the project and their voice should have relevance too
<czajkowski> balloons: +1
<dholbach> whatever their job title is
<hggdh> +1
<dholbach> and by that I don't just mean members of our team in Canonical
<dholbach> and I don't think that relying on a single person to respond to all online discussions via blog will scale - but I have to admit that I often feel "too busy" to write a long blog post responding to whatever the discussion of the day is
<dholbach> and I know I could blog more
<balloons> yes, the downside of having a single mouthpiece is all other voices have a tendency to be silent
<dpm> I think the takeaway is also that we should all blog more, not only in reaction to a particular topic, and I am to blame on that too
<hggdh> jono is one of a kind. But he is not here anymore. You cannot expect to keep on with his style, pretty much only he could. But you can keep on as a group
<czajkowski> hggdh: true
<czajkowski> and we all have to find our own voice
<czajkowski> and our own way of doing things
<dholbach> just a quick note: the CC also is meeting the IRC Council today ... can we maybe make a list of subjects we still want to talk about?
<dholbach> it looks like we need way more time to get through all of this, or am I wrong?
<czajkowski> but as popey pointed out culture changes means what we're used to is not what's happening so it was more of a discussion
<hggdh> yes. And be vocal on it. And try to present a coherent, consistent view
<czajkowski> I will say that having dpm post the community team updates is brilliant!
<czajkowski> please do keep that up :D  I love to read it
<dpm> thanks
<czajkowski> I would also love to see more blogging of what the Community team is doing as I know I personally idle in the irc channel and can see you guys are busy
<dpm> I've not been keeping up after travels and holidays too
<hggdh> dpm: BTW, never said it -- thank you for the updates.
<czajkowski> but I'm sure others would love to see a day in the life a community team member
<balloons> summertime has taken a bit of a toll on things
<dpm> so when the next sprint is over expect a new update
<dholbach> if we have more to talk about, we could have a hangout on air and take more time to get through the issues together
<dholbach> kind of a pre-UOS u-community-team get-together :)
<czajkowski> dholbach: blog perhaps ?
<dholbach> czajkowski, sorry I meant subjects popey and others wanted to bring up now
<czajkowski> dholbach: ahh gotcha
<dpm> btw, so we've got ~20 mins left?
<czajkowski> dpm: aye
 * hggdh warms hands
<czajkowski> I know dpm had a topic to bring up
<dpm> indeed
<dholbach> czajkowski, dpm: right, but we're also still meeting up with the IRC Council
<dholbach> but sure... bring it up - it looks like the meeting will run over today anyway
<dpm> I think I don't need the whole 20 mins
<dpm> I want to introduce the topic and follow up in the next few days anyway
<dpm> in any case...
<dpm> ... this is a follow-up of a discussion we had at the Community Leadership Summit
 * balloons feels anticipation building
<dpm> lol
<czajkowski> dpm: no pressure
<dholbach> the suspense is killing me :)
<dpm> ...
<dpm> ...
<dpm> j/k
<dpm> so, we talked about more effective ways for teams/locos/individuals to meet up and get visibility and more attendees to their physical meetings
<dpm> While we have the LoCo portal for event organization
<dpm> it seems not all teams use it and also that it's a very Ubuntu-specific thing
<dpm> so we don't get all the discoverability we could get
<czajkowski> nods, it's a nice home for all the info on teams when you're searching about a loco.
<czajkowski> dpm: that's also true
<dpm> indeed, and to be clear, this is not about changing the LoCo portal
<dpm> however, since we created the LP, things have changed
<dpm> One of the nice things about CLS was to get feedback from other open source communities
<balloons> so really this is about engaging folks where they already are?
<dpm> on the infrastructure/tools they use
<dpm> for events
<dpm> one of the ones that came up was meetup.com
<dpm> I know for example czajkowski uses it over at CouchBase
<czajkowski> nods this is true I do.
<czajkowski> and that was someting that came up at CLS, was more and more groups using meet up.
<czajkowski> and how best we could tie it into LTP
<dpm> and I got convinced it could be a good thing to try
 * dpm nods
<czajkowski> so I think it's a good idea, and I'd love to see loco teams embrace it
<czajkowski> and if they don't want to also, that's equally fine,
<czajkowski> I think opt in would be good, looping in the LC into the discussion and dpm the funds for this will come via the community fund or canonical ?
<dpm> The thing that I particularly attracts me to it is that it opens the door to other open source communities that are using it to more easily see the Ubuntu events, so that we'd be no longer in our Ubuntu bubble
<dpm> By all means
<dpm> I think this is a discussion that needs to happen with the CC
<dpm> err LC
<czajkowski> nods i think it would open more doors for other groups to learn about ubuntu
 * mhall119 is here now
<czajkowski> and I think it's a postive step in understanding how our community is changing and adapting to it
<czajkowski> dpm: so we do have a lmited CC here :)
<dholbach> :)
<dpm> :-)
<dholbach> I haven't used meetup much yet, but I think it's worth a try
<czajkowski> I think the best thing as a stepping stone would be meet with the LC and involve them in this discussion if not done so already
<czajkowski> meet wtih meet up and then trial it with some teams
<dpm> yeah
<czajkowski> and I'd love to see this plan being blogged so others can see how you guys are working with the community and loco teams
<balloons> I think opening ourselves up a bit more is a good thing. Things have changed and are changing. It would be best if we could empower those using other platforms to take ownership of them also. In other words, I don't want us to try and be all things to all people
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> and I think you can play with the API and intergrate it into the LTP
<czajkowski> so you could still have visibilty under one location
<czajkowski> but that's a dev issue :)
<dpm> I will take an action to put together a doc to drive the discussion with the LC
<czajkowski> brilliant
<dholbach> nice
<czajkowski> dpm: will the community team be at CLS  Europe in case folks at ubuntu want to meet up with the team ?
<dpm> We're not planning to atm
<dpm> But will look into it
<czajkowski> dpm: another action item :)
<balloons> http://clsxeurope.com/ looks like it's the end of October
<dpm> :)
<dpm> ah, it's a CLSx event
<czajkowski> would be great to see the team at CLS and maybe this is something we could get some of the Ubuntu loco teams to come to and take part in ?
 * dholbach is at UbuConDE at the time
<dpm> yeah, it's right on that date
<balloons> ^^ indeed, that would be the focus
<dpm> I'm at UbuConDE as well
 * mhall119 will be sitting around here in Florida
<dpm> But perhaps we can send others who didn't make it to the last CLS
<czajkowski> dpm: guess you need to get the team to Texas next year :)
<dpm> :)
<czajkowski> right are there any other topics before we wrap up
<dholbach> hum........
<dholbach> the IRC Council?
<czajkowski> popey: dholbach balloons dpm any other issues?
<hggdh> yes?
<mhall119> yes, sponsoring community leaders to go to CLS Europe would be ieal
<Pici> \o
<czajkowski> dholbach: you can run that bit of the meeting I need to run for a train :)
<dpm> I'm good for today
<balloons> same, we've taken enough time for now
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone
<dholbach> let's move on then :)
<dpm> o/
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the IRC Council
<dholbach> sorry for keeping you waiting for so long
<dholbach> how are things?
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<Pici> quiet.
<dholbach> oh?
<hggdh> too quiet, methinks
<dholbach> I wouldn't have expected that answer from the fast-world-of-IRC :)
<mhall119> bad quiet or good quiet?
<hggdh> since the election we have not had much done. We will be holding a IRC meeting next week, off the schedule to try to catch up
<dholbach> but the irc world is as busy as always, right?
<Pici> Well, we had some issues with the server that ubottu and co was hosted on, so that was a bit frantic, but we've gotten things back together now.
<mhall119> Pici: are there any outstanding issues now that the CC might help with?
<Pici> mhall119: I don't think so.
<hggdh> I do not think so
<dholbach> who is mostly taking care of the bots these days?
<hggdh> pici
<Pici> I am.
<dholbach> just you?
<hggdh> he is the only one, I think with the necessary access. Which is good, otherwise we would have lost the bots for a bit longer
<mhall119> is there a way to share that access, so it's not all on Pici?
<dholbach> oh yeah... I have full trust in Pici - I was just asking if anyone else was helping out :)
<hggdh> so do I :-)
<mhall119> it's not a question of trust, I trust Pici too, but he should have a backup who can take over for him when he needs it
<Pici> No one else is helping at the moment, but I'd need to get something setup so that others could easily admin that part of the server in case I'm away.
<Pici> Just a weekend project I should put in my to-do list.
<mhall119> Pici: is this server yours or something Canonical-hosted?
<dholbach> nice :)
<Pici> mhall119: its a small Linode instance I'm running.
<dholbach> and speaking of helping out... are there enough folks helping out generally as ops and helpers?
<mhall119> Pici: the community donations fund could be used to reimburse you for the cost of running it, just a reminder
 * Pici notes
<hggdh> the meeting next week should take care of most of the pending applications. -ops, though, probably needs a bit more of coverage
<Pici> I think we had one or two applications for that, if not we can just hand it out to folks.
<dholbach> brilliant
<dholbach> thanks a lot for taking care of that
<dholbach> how is morale generally among helpers and ops?
<dholbach> I know that was a concern in the past
<hggdh> haven't heard of many complaints lately; I would venture it is better than it was before
<Pici> *I* think that our operators are a lot better now. Things in general have calmed down a lot, not as many serial-trolls pushing their buttons lately.
<hggdh> Pici: good explanation. +1
<mhall119> that's good tohear
<dholbach> phew
<dholbach> I'm super happy to hear that :)
<hggdh> so are we :-)
<dholbach> it's not just the trolls, but also always a matter of how the atmosphere in the team is
<dholbach> so it looks like you're doing something right :)
 * hggdh wonders about that...
<dholbach> mh?
<hggdh> I think the atmosphere got less polluted, not really what we did (for the most part I, for example, did not really do much)
<dholbach> oh... I meant you as a whole team
<mhall119> hggdh: leadership can do a lot to clean up the atmosphere without doing anything directly, just by setting the example
<dholbach> atmosphere is something everyone contributes to :)
<hggdh> indeed
<mhall119> alright, we've used up our allotted time in this channel
<hggdh> but, apart from that things look good.
<mhall119> anything else you guys want to bring up?
<hggdh> nope, we are good.
<dholbach> sorry again for keeping you waiting earlier :)
 * dholbach hugs you all
<mhall119> thanks hggdh and Pici
 * hggdh hugs all
<dholbach> thanks a lot for keeping #ubuntu-* so well organised!
<mhall119> yes, +1 what dholbach said
<mhall119> any other topics for the CC?
<mhall119> from anybody
 * dholbach doesn't
 * mhall119 either
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone - dinner is waiting for me :)
<mhall119> thanks everyone
<dholbach> thanks!
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  3 18:11:32 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-03-17.00.moin.txt
<Kilos> hmm...
<elacheche_anis> willcooke, is here.. You're ready?
<willcooke> elacheche_anis, hey, yup
<wxl> well in that caseâ¦
<Kilos> hi willcooke
<wxl> #startmeeting 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  3 19:56:12 2015 UTC.  The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<willcooke> hi Kilos
<wxl> Hello and welcome to the Membership Board meeting!
<wxl> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards. We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting.
<Kilos> hi everyone
<wxl> If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<wxl> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<wxl> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<wxl> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: willcooke
<wxl> willcooke:  please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<toddy> hi everybody
<Kilos> hgi toddy
<Kilos> hi as well
<willcooke> Hello board!  I've been using Ubuntu for about 10 years.  I started out supporting users on the forums and IRC, and then eventually managed to bad myself a job at Canonical.  I've done a few different jobs here but for the last year or so I've been managing the Ubuntu Desktop team.
<willcooke> I'm a big supported of Open Source and Open Hardware.  In my spare time I like making electronic gizmos do things they weren't designed to do.
<willcooke> LP: https://launchpad.net/~willcooke
<willcooke> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WillCooke
<wxl> Excellent! Any questions for willcooke? ? Any supporters here?
<elacheche_anis> Welcome willcooke :)
<elacheche_anis> Actually I have a question
<elacheche_anis> willcooke, I have no comments on you Wiki or LP :) I just love to know why you're applying for the Ubuntu Membership.. :)
<Kilos> willcooke  why did you take so long to apply?
<willcooke> heh, yeah, I kept meaning to apply, but I assumed that I hadn't really done enough to warrant it.  Most of my Canonical work was kinda behind the scenes
<willcooke> but then when I joined the desktop team people were always telling me to get on with it
<wxl> interesting. did you discuss that idea with anyone at all, willcooke ?
<willcooke> so I finally did get round to it.
<willcooke> So popey was quite clear that I should apply and he convinced me that I had actually done enough to warrant it
<wxl> excellent
<willcooke> plus rickspencer3
<wxl> good job popey !
<popey> namedropper ;)
<willcooke> lolz
<Kilos> haha
<wxl> hahahahah
<Kilos> hi popey
<wxl> any other questions or shoall we move on to voting?
<wxl> s/oa/a//
<toddy> willcooke: do you involve in the loco in London?
<hggdh> no questions from me. the testimonials are more than enough
<Kilos> agreed
<popey> the UK loco is mostly idle
<willcooke> toddy, not really.  I dont get down to the office so much.
<willcooke> we "organised" a release party for 15.04
<willcooke> which was basically "let's go to the pub"
<ahoneybun> lol
<hggdh> organised enough, I would say
<toddy> willcooke: how many people was there?
<willcooke> toddy, not including the desktop team, about 8
<willcooke> with the desktop team, about 20
<toddy> nice
<elacheche_anis> loool willcooke x)
<doko> willcooke, what do you know about plus1 maintenance?
<willcooke> doko, nothing
<willcooke> doko, what is it?
<wxl> #voters ahoneybun popey hggdh Kilos toddy elacheche_anis wxl
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos ahoneybun elacheche_anis hggdh popey toddy wxl
<hggdh> +1 finally, welcome
<wxl> so i guess i'm ready to go vote if that's it?
<hggdh> bah, jumped the gun
<elacheche_anis> Am ready too :)
<Kilos> ditto
<ahoneybun> I'm good to go
<willcooke> doko, ah:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlusOneMaintenanceTeam
<elacheche_anis> +1 Keep the good work the the desktop :)
<wxl> oops hold on elacheche_anis :)
<popey> +1
<wxl> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<wxl> ok NOW VOTE
<Kilos> +1 keep going
<popey> +1
<wxl> +1 hardware hackerz unite!
<wxl> oh
<wxl> derp
<wxl> i'm new at this :/
<toddy> we need a question
<elacheche_anis> :D
<wxl> #vote for willcooke's membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: for willcooke's membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<elacheche_anis> Take your time w:)
<hggdh> ah
<elacheche_anis> +1 Keep the good work the the desktop :)
<meetingology> +1 Keep the good work the the desktop :) received from elacheche_anis
<ahoneybun> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ahoneybun
<hggdh> bah, jumped the gun
<popey> hah
<hggdh> +1 finally, welcome
<meetingology> +1 finally, welcome received from hggdh
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<wxl> +1 hardware hackerz unite!
<meetingology> +1 hardware hackerz unite! received from wxl
<toddy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from toddy
<Kilos> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Kilos
<wxl> okey dokey then
<wxl> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for willcooke's membership
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<willcooke> \o/
<wxl> jeez you seem to have passed with flying colors willcooke :)
<wxl> congrats!
<ahoneybun> nice one willcooke
<Kilos> welcome onboard willcooke
<willcooke> thanks very much everyone!
<Kilos> well done
 * elacheche_anis need to mention that willcooke already got +2 from 2 board members via the ML :)
<wxl> thank you for all the hard work, both whilst getting paid and otherwise willcooke :)
<hggdh> willcooke: welcome in. Now you can look popey in the eyes and say "there. Happy?"
<wxl> good point elacheche_anis
<elacheche_anis> Congrats willcooke :) Welcome aboard :)
<Na3iL> congrats willcooke :)
<Kilos> hehe
<willcooke> thanks everyone
<wxl> looks like that's about it
<wxl> anyone else have anything else?
<popey> not from me
<willcooke> I've been encouraging others to apply, so hopefully there will be more next month
<Kilos> ty for chairing wxl
<Kilos> cool
<ahoneybun> thanks wxl
<wxl> thank you willcooke ! please let us know if you need further help
<willcooke> cheers wxl
<wxl> cheers!
 * willcooke -> dinner time
<wxl> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  3 20:12:41 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-03-19.56.moin.txt
<wxl> win item move 3
<wxl> oops
<elacheche_anis> willcooke, just a quick question you can answer later.. Do you LOVE unity?! :D
<willcooke> elacheche_anis, yes.  I love it.  It just works for me.
 * ahoneybun <3 Plasma
<elacheche_anis> :D Happy to know that willcooke :D
 * elacheche_anis <3 awesome wm & mate :D
<Kilos> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-05
<doko> Laney: glib2.0 ftbfs on armhf and arm64
<Laney> doko: interesting choice of venue
<Laney> I saw that, thanks
<Laney> want to swap for an ice in gdc-6? :-)
<doko> Laney: oops, sorry about the channel
<doko> Laney: where?
<Laney> doko: https://paste.debian.net/810402/
<doko> Laney: ugh, that's a new one. could you file a ug report?
<Laney> doko: ya, do you need the preprocessed stuff or is reproducer info okay?
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-06
<powersj> o/
<nacc> o/
<jgrimm> o/
 * jgrimm waves at powersj  :)
<powersj> ;)
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 16:00:24 2016 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> gaughen_ sends her apologies, so I'm chairing again.
<jgrimm> thank you rbasak
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak>     cpaelzer and rbasak to review new triaging section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<cpaelzer> o/
<rbasak> I have reviewed, and I think it looks good. Thanks powersj for cleaning that up!
<powersj> np thanks for the review
<cpaelzer> I have as well and I liked it pretty much
<cpaelzer> I thought on more detail sometimes, but then that would divert attention too much
<cpaelzer> the links from there are good for that
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer!
<rbasak> #topic Development Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Development Release
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> Any comments on Yakkety's progress?
<rbasak> I noticed sbuild is broken building Yakkety from Xenial. The easiest fix seems to be to be a no-change backport of sbuild from Yakkety.
<jgrimm> for awareness, ibm developers seeking to backport some qemu 2.7 functionality specific to ppc64 into our 2.6
<jgrimm> will assess risk/viability once we see the patches
<jgrimm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1541902
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1541902 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1541902). The error has been logged
<rbasak> #info for awareness, ibm developers seeking to backport some qemu 2.7 functionality specific to ppc64 into our 2.6; will assess risk/viability once we see the patches
<rbasak> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1541902
 * rbasak is going to try and have ubottu write the minutes for him this time
<cpaelzer> About the same is true if you s/qemu/dpdk/ on jons lines in regard to bug 1539775
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1539775 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1539775). The error has been logged
<rbasak> #info sbuild is broken building Yakkety from Xenial; workaround is to no-change backport sbuild from Yakkety
<jgrimm> ubottu broken?
<ubottu> jgrimm: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<rbasak> #info the same request applies to dpdk
<rbasak> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpdk/+bug/1539775
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer and jgrimm. Any other comments for Yakkety development?
<rbasak> #subtopic Active work that may need wider communication
<rbasak> Are you doing anything that should be communicated more widely?
<cpaelzer> yes
<jgrimm> :)
<cpaelzer> just a secdon to write here
<cpaelzer> I'll come up with a proposal to fix and formalize how we handle qemu machine types, especially in regard to migrations
<cpaelzer> I'd ask - if there is anyone out there that had issues in regard to kvm migration recently please contact me
<rbasak> #info cpaelzer will come up with a proposal to fix and formalize how we handle qemu machine types, especially in regard to migrations. He asks for anyone who has had issues with kvm migration recently to get in touch
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer!
<rbasak> Anything else?
<cpaelzer> I had talked to most internal Teams now and processed old cases, but any extra portion of real life makes such a proposal better
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<rbasak> caribou sends his apologies. Does anyone else have anything for this topic?
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<rbasak> powersj: o/
<powersj> Working through automated ISO tests again due to additional new failures seen, triaging those.Continue bug triage today and scheduled out for the next couple months. Starting weekly Monday hangout next week to triage together. Need to meet up with rharper re: curtin ipv6 testing for next steps and plan. No updates on RT tickets (RT is down)
<rbasak> And does anyone have any questions for powersj?
<rbasak> Thanks powersj!
<jgrimm> thanks
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<rbasak> Any questions to/from the kernel team?
<smb> Nothing new... still ... from
<rbasak> OK, thanks smb!
<rbasak> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rbasak> Any upcoming CfPs?
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Any upcoming events?
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> AOB?
<jgrimm> new engineer on server team
<jgrimm> brauner primary focus on LXD/LXC and friends.
<rbasak> Welcome brauner!
<rbasak> AOAOB?
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> The next meeting will be on Tue Sep 13 16:00:00 UTC 2016. gaughen_ will chair.
<rbasak> #topic Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
<powersj> This week's schedule M-F is: rbasak, powersj, nacc, cpaelzer, rbasak - any issues? rbasak going to do weekend still?
<rbasak> Yes, sorry I haven't done it yet. I'll catch up today or tomorrow. No issues.
<cpaelzer> ok for me
<nacc> fine by me
<powersj> brilliant
<powersj> sounds like we are good
<rbasak> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<rbasak> I think people are self-updating their status now. Are we making progress?
<jgrimm> yes, i've updated spreadsheet this week
<cpaelzer> all I did in the past week, no new progress yet
<nacc> rbasak: i think we are probably in a good place to upload the bacula fixes -- the one person who reported an issue with the PPA has not responded in a few weeks and others have reported successful testing
<nacc> rbasak: which would clear several bugs off my backburner
<rbasak> nacc: sounds good!
<jgrimm> nacc, \o/
<rbasak> Thank you for working on that.
<nacc> np
<rbasak> I guess we're done for today then. Any other comments on bug assignments?
<nacc> i've got a few php bugs that came in while i was on vacation that i plan on putting on the list, but otherwise i'm good
<rbasak> #info everyone is self-updating their own status now; some progress reported
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 16:18:13 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-06-16.00.moin.txt
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<cpaelzer> thanks rbasak
<cpaelzer> !
<nacc> rbasak: thanks!
<cpaelzer> cu
<powersj> rbasak, thanks
<jgrimm> rbasak, thanks!
<jgrimm> rbasak, don't forget to post minutes/update wiki (and for last week)
<rbasak> Doing it now :)
<jgrimm> thank you sir! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-07
* sexy-guy changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Why won't pretty girls talk to me?
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<pleia2> ta
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-08
<Mikaela> Why don't you just op meetingology and set +t or at least enable topiclock and give meetingology +t?
<sarnold> I can't recall the last time the topic was abused
<sarnold> for as rarely as it happens, i'm not surprised "changed nothing" wins :)
<Mikaela> within a month
<pitti> o/
<tdaitx> o/
<infinity> \o
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  8 15:02:08 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> tdaitx xnox sil2100 slangasek mwhudson infinity cyphermox pitti doko chiluk caribou robru barry bdmurray
<slangasek> shall we?
<infinity> If you insist.
<tdaitx> wow, twice!
<tdaitx> Short week: holiday on Wednesday, Sep/07 was Independence Day, time to protest against the "coup" all day (instead of just during the night time)
<tdaitx> = proposed migration
<tdaitx> - Reported linux-libc-dev headers mismatch between powerpc/ppc64 and all other archs; causes FTBFS on repsnapper (LP: #1619446)
<tdaitx> - repsnapper FTBFS fix + workaround (LP: #1619289 and LP: #1619100)
<tdaitx> - mozart can be removed, no reverse dependencies (other than it's own lib); reason: requires autoconf 2.13 to regenerate files, generated configure is incompatible with gcc6 (a test fails because g++ -E output is different than gcc5), and it is not being maintained any longer; also, the launchpad page project description is wrong; just kill the poor thing please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619446 in linux (Ubuntu) "mismatching headers between powerpc/ppc64el and other archs" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619289 in repsnapper (Ubuntu) "repsnapper FTBFS with gcc6" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619289
<tdaitx> - investigated htseq being on hold on -proposed; caused by bcftools FTBFS on i386, powerpc, and s390x (chain dependency: htseq -> python-pysam -> bcftools, where bcftools is a new dependency of python-pysam) (full report LP: #1619530)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619100 in repsnapper (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on ppc64el: termios problems" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619100
<tdaitx> - Freevo FTBFS due to some unknown behavior on dh scripts (?), unable to reproduce locally, has anyone ever seen this:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619530 in bcftools (Debian) "bcftools FTBFS on i386, powerpc, s390x due to failing tests" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619530
<tdaitx>   works: dh_strip debug symbol extraction: enabling -a due to Build-Debug-Symbols: yes in /CurrentlyBuilding
<tdaitx>   fails: dh_strip debug symbol extraction: not enabling -a because /CurrentlyBuilding exists
<tdaitx>   works: INFO: Disabling pkgstriptranslations for PPA build
<tdaitx>   fails: pkgstriptranslations: processing freevo (in debian/freevo); do_strip: ...
<tdaitx> (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> porting cirros/buildroot to s390x
<xnox> gnupg2 migration done
<xnox> adt failures fixing (openstack / and generic)
<xnox> collaboration on upstream test-suite fixes for s390x
<xnox> zua further work on upgrade path
<xnox> was out one day
<xnox> (done)
<slangasek> sil2100 is out
<infinity> tdaitx: Those messages are from pkg-create-dbgsym
<slangasek>  * short week, on vacation last Thursday through Monday
<slangasek>  * Snappy ubuntu-core RTM milestone reached yesterday, kudos to the snappy team and thanks to all who had a part is supporting them
<slangasek>  * Tracked down an upstream mtools bug that was causing vfat corruption in snappy images (LP: #1619718)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619718 in mtools (Ubuntu Xenial) "ubuntu-image created vfat eats itself after a while (mcopy creates wrong subdirs)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619718
<infinity> tdaitx: Well, the first set is.  The second set is from pkgbinarymangler.
<slangasek>   * needs the xenial SRU reviewed and approved
<slangasek>  * working on a new release of ubuntu-image with a few more fixes
<slangasek>   * the ubuntu-image snap (which included workarounds) was used to produce all the images for the RTM release, no more u-d-f!
<slangasek>  * up next:
<slangasek>   * more ubuntu-image, console-conf work on the drive to GA milestone
<slangasek>   * on vacation next Monday, Thursday, Friday
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> infinity:
<infinity> No mwhudson?
<slangasek> never mwhudson, I put him in the list to confuse people
<infinity> Well done.
<infinity> Two day week, due to vacation and national holiday:
<infinity>  - Caught up on email, and learned a valuable lesson about ignoring mail for 10 days
<infinity>  - Working on integrating ubuntu-image in LP livefs builds
<infinity>  - Working with the kernel team on getting 4.6 into yakkety
<infinity>  - Preparing another glibc upload for yakkety and a xenial SRU
<infinity> Next week:
<infinity>  - Finishing all the above, in the order listed
<infinity>  - Spinning up more powerpc VMs to better parallelise builds
<infinity> Side note: Insomnia had me up all night, so hours might be slightly skewed today and tomorrow (ie: I might need a nap soon).
<infinity> Less relevant side note: I've had La Isla Bonita stuck in my head for hours, and it's driving me insane.
<infinity> (done)
<cyphermox> - short week due to holiday on Monday
<cyphermox> - grub2: UEFI IPv6 support landed in yakkety; preparing SRU
<cyphermox> - partman-auto: fix software RAID over NVMe (LP: #1615650)
<cyphermox> - helped out lamont with more debugging IPv6 netboot in UEFI w/ MAAS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1615650 in partman-auto (Ubuntu Xenial) "Guided Partitioning does not list Software RAID devices on NVMe" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615650
<cyphermox> - shim: small patch fixes for upstreaming EKU changes
<cyphermox> - console-conf bug fix
<cyphermox> - NM SRU'ing VPN split-tunnelling fixes.
<cyphermox> (done)
<tdaitx> infinity, and why would they trigger for one build and not another? any way I can emulate that?
<pitti> infinity: the Madonna song?
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Port charms to xenial (mostly upstart â systemd, dropping backport hacks), redeploy production
<pitti>  - Fully move to python3 (xenial provides py3 libs for swift and nova)
<pitti>  - Adjust deployment script to work with juju-2.0
<pitti>  - http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com: Add back initial statistics page and moderately tasteful homepage
<pitti>  - Update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure for new web UI code
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - Provide deputy system service manager for snapd backport; now mostly working fine, pending testing from tvoss (#1616422)
<infinity> tdaitx: It's based on the contents (or existence) of /CurrentlyBuilding.  The docs are the code, unfortunately.
<pitti>  - systemd: Add systemctl option to wait for unit to become inactive (for convergence-y-replace-upstart)
<pitti>  - Debug netplan/networkd resolv.conf bug with ogra; prepare SRU (#1620559)
<pitti>  - Fix resolved handling of multiple trailing dots (#1600000)
<pitti>  - ldb: Drop python3 packages again to solve python3-talloc-dev NBS
<pitti>  - ask kenvandine to fix ubuntu-system-settings for the one remaining NBS, MP pending now
<pitti>  - apport: Review https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/apport/xenial-s390x/+merge/304943
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - Help tvoss with snapd backport packaging on trusty
<pitti>  - Investigate RabbitMQ charm hang in LXD (#1621237)
<pitti>  - Investigate eternal hang when deploying with juju-2 (#1621336)
<pitti>  - Meeting/discussions with smoser about cloud-init unit hooks that can support mkfs (#1611074) and package installation (#1576692)
<pitti> ~~~~ ZE END ~~~
<infinity> Der Enden?
<slangasek> pitti: "prepare SRU" - of netplan or networkd?
<xnox> infinity, there is ginger man spiced latte in starbucks and it's only 107 sleeps until "WHAM!" will hit the charts again.
<slangasek> doko_: here?
<pitti> slangasek: neither, it's the resolvconf integration with networkd, snappy uses that in xenial
<slangasek> ok
 * xnox is not at cauldron
<xnox> =(
<robru> pitti: I emailed you, please reply
<pitti> slangasek: they currently use their own networkd backport; I guess at some point we should backport that officially, but that should then also get the NM fixes
<slangasek> pitti: how close are we to having a netplan we can SRU into xenial?
<slangasek> their own networkd backport> ah, eew, yes
<slangasek> chiluk: hi
<pitti> slangasek: oh, is that urgent? I was going to wait until it at least gets the planned features, and matures a bit
<chiluk> sorry slangasek.. dealing with an emergency.
<slangasek> pitti: not urgent, I'm just wondering how close we are to it :)
<infinity> pitti: And yes, the Madonna song. :P
<slangasek> pitti: iterating in the ppa is obviously more efficient than iterating in SRU
<chiluk> slangasek skip me please.
<slangasek> chiluk: no worries
<slangasek> caribou: ?
<caribou> I'm here
<caribou> dpkg status file corrupt
<caribou>  OOM killer induced crash
<caribou>  Trusty multipath-tools does not document /etc/multilpath/wwids upon restart
<caribou> bugfix mostly
<caribou> â Done
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * moved to git
<robru> * completed git support (one successful build in production so far)
<robru> * completed ephemeral PPA transition (23 successful ephemeral PPAs so far)
<robru> * many many many iterations to clean up fresh deployments
<robru> * fix bug where re-publishing ticket didn't recognize it's own packages in -proposed and got confused, blocking publication of other packages in ticket
<robru> lp:bileto charm
<robru> * moved to git
<robru> * many iterations to clean up fresh deployments
<robru> * drop a bunch of obsolete jenkins bits
<pitti> slangasek: after NMUing NM it's unblocked
<caribou> xnox: I'm still hunting that dpkg /var/lib/dpkg/status file corruption btw
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> * pull charm from git
<robru> * fix up fresh deployments
<robru> lp:emacs
<robru> * migrate to git (created lp mirror of upstream git)
<robru> * update snapshot packaging to support builds from git
<robru> * git-based daily build recipe
<robru> (done)
<bdmurray> investigation into retracer processes and respawn limits
<bdmurray> reported daisy bug 1620823 re retracers leaking memory
<bdmurray> submitted RT re daisy-retracer charm update for daily restarts
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding daisy frontend OOPSes (cassandra issue?)
<ubottu> bug 1620823 in Daisy "retracers reach respawn limit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1620823
<bdmurray> modified DB query to read dpkghistory to get a list of packages to install and test for the HWE upgrade bug
<bdmurray> tested installing packages found in crashes at errors to reproduce HWE upgrade bug
<bdmurray> released update-manager / xorg SRU for trusty
<bdmurray> investigation into ubuntu-release-upgrader autopkg test failure
<bdmurray> reported sbuild & gpg bug (building for yakkety on xenial)
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> robru: only one successful git landing so far?  slow uptake :)
<xnox> caribou, =( is it reproducible now in automated way? do we need archive bisect to pin point it?
<robru> slangasek: yeah! I thought people were clamoring for git, but I guess they're busy.
<caribou> xnox: no & not sure it's comming from the archive as they used a landscape repositor
<pitti> robru: replied
<robru> pitti: thanks
<infinity> I have a hard time believing dpkg is corrupting its own status file and only one person has noticed.
<caribou> xnox: I've been reading dpkg source & trying things
<infinity> That's fairly improbable.
<caribou> xnox: I'll let you know if I get somewhere
<caribou> infinity: it's on precise & happened on >500 desktops at the same time
<infinity> caribou: But all in the same environment, so that still qualifies as "one person".
<caribou> infinity: and not a corruption per say, 1300 package entries have part of their description field replaced by blanks
<infinity> caribou: As in, no one else seems to have seen or reported this in Ubuntu or Debian, so... Hrm.
<caribou> infinity: that's why I'm suspecting something on the Landscape Dedicate Server side
<infinity> caribou: Copies of their /var/lib/apt/lists would be helpful, if you don't have that.
<slangasek> only /part/ of their description field replaced by blanks?
<infinity> Could be that they're serving their apt repo over a 110 baud coupler? ;)
<caribou> infinity: slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23150531/
<infinity> Description: package for doing things to stu*&^!#%^NO CARRIER
<caribou> :D
<xnox> slangasek, lines like "  .*" get replaced with " "
<xnox> slangasek, that is leading two spaces, in a non-empty line, become empty line
<infinity> caribou: Are those actually spaces, or non-printable binary vomit?
<xnox> which is invalid format
<xnox> slangasek, i somehow suspect something else external to dpkg if fiddling with the status file, does landscape dedicated client does that? or any bindings?
<caribou> ^<space><space>$
<slangasek> neato
<slangasek> are they running dselect?
<infinity> If that was apt, I'd say someone's producing bogus Translations-$$ files.
<xnox> ah.
<infinity> But dpkg status should only have the contents of the actual control files.
<pitti> cyphermox: there's still a shim-signed in precise-proposed (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html), do you know the status of that?
<slangasek> xnox: I don't know what might do it
<xnox> what if they lack Translations-en ?
<infinity> xnox: See above.
<cyphermox> pitti: status is it will die, replaced by a newer shinier shim
<xnox> on their mirror.
<infinity> xnox: Translations-$$ is only used by apt.  dpkg status files are pulled from DEBIAN/control
 * doko_ waves (without summary) and reminds caribou about the clamav related MIR 
<cyphermox> but perhaps I should validate it anyway before that
<pitti> cyphermox: ok, so not to be released?
<caribou> doko_: haven't forgot
<xnox> caribou, do we have access to their mirror, over http or some such?
<cyphermox> pitti: I'll get back to the bug and look through my notes to be sure, but we'll supercede it anyway
<infinity> caribou: Anyhow, interested in as much debugging info as you can get from their apt lists, etc.  Can't make time this week, but I'm quite interested in WTF is going on.
<cyphermox> pitti: in any case, I've tested and retested all of this multiple times
<caribou> infinity: ok, will keep you posted
<pitti> cyphermox: ok; there's one bug missing v-done, but otherwise nothing to say it should be blocked; I want to avoid that it accidentally gets released if it isn't supposed to
<caribou> xnox: I'll see what I can get regarding the mirror
<cyphermox> pitti: I just checked, it was verification-done for precise too
<pitti> cyphermox: not bug 1574727
<ubottu> bug 1574727 in shim (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] Enforce using signed kernels and modules on UEFI" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574727
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> Anything else?
<infinity> LAST NIGHT I DREAMT OF SAN PEDROOOOO!
<infinity> (nothing else)
<xnox> Mama Mia!
<pitti> infinity: warm wind carried on the sea, it called to me! âª â«
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  8 15:30:00 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-08-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-09-05
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
<nacc> o/
<ahasenack> o/
<rbasak> o/
<cpaelzer> actually who is chairing today
 * cpaelzer is it everytime he asks that ... checking ...
<rbasak> smoser was up, but I only did the minutes a few hours earlier.
<blackboxsw> o/
<cpaelzer> but smoser said yes last week IIRC
<dpb1> o/
<smb> o/
<ahasenack> I can chair then, it's been a while
<ahasenack> if everyone is ok with it
<dpb1> OK
<dpb1> sacrificial lamb
<ahasenack> or is someone pinging smoser?
<smoser> o/
<smoser> sorry.
<smoser> here.
<dpb1> oh
<smoser> 5 minutes late. starting
<dpb1> he is here!
<ahasenack> ohhi :)
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  5 16:05:54 2017 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> looks like there were no action (per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting)
<smoser> oh. wait. reading wrong
<smoser> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<smoser> is that right ?
<nacc> smoser: carry over
<nacc> smoser: yeah
<smoser> wow
<smoser> :)
<smoser> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<smoser> #ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<nacc> smoser: also that one
<smoser> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> I keep reminding that we can almost start to think/prep artful release notes now
<smoser> #ACTION nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<smoser> * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<rbasak> Carry over please again
<smoser> #ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<smoser> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<ahasenack> final beta, sep 28th
<cpaelzer> thanks for that date ahasenack
<smoser> today is Septmber 4th, so we are post Beta 1 Freeze and FeatureFreeze.
<smoser> the final beta freeze is actually the Sep 21.
<cpaelzer> last time we asked for FFEs are there new ones that were (or are going to be) added?
<cpaelzer> I see 28th in the wiki as ahasenack does
<smoser> er... (math wrong). Sept 25. the beta on 28th
<cpaelzer> 21st is documentation string freeze
<smoser> the Final Beta Freeze is Monday the 25th . the Final Beta is Thursday the 28th.
<smoser> the link only lists thursdays, it says "(Monday)" for the freezse
<smoser> anyway... thats roughly where we are.
<smoser> bugs to fix, things to make better now.
<smoser> #subtopic Current Work
<smoser> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<smoser> anyone want to coment on tasks they have ^
<smoser>  ?
<cpaelzer> nothing special I'd know about atm
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> that list is suspiciously short
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> possibly. probably. probably https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/1713803 should be added. i'll get that added.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713803 in whereami (Ubuntu) "replacement of resolvconf with systemd needs integration" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> I'm on the ntp bug in there
<smoser> ahasenack, are you volunteering to look at why that list is suspiciously short ? any thing you had in mind ?
<cpaelzer> ack smoser, yours is a big one that should be in there
<ahasenack> smoser: do you know what script generates it?
<smoser> rbasak does. it is based on tags i blieve.
<smoser> or not. as the ntp one has no tags.
<cpaelzer> bug tasks
<rbasak> It uses Artful bug tasks
<ahasenack> it has a "status tracked in artful" status
<nacc> i think it's just ~ubuntu-server bugs with artful tasks?
<cpaelzer> if a bug is open against devel, but not has a artful task it is not on there
<ahasenack> sounds like it
<smoser> there you go.
<rbasak> Which is debatable as to whether that's the correct way to track them.
<nacc> highly debatable
<rbasak> I'm not sure it is. I don't create Artful tasks.
<nacc> yeah
<rbasak> Because they don't roll forward.
<nacc> it's implicit that right now, devel tasks are artful takss
<rbasak> Well, sort of.
<nacc> *tasks
<smoser> so the useful ness of the list is suspect
<cpaelzer> I create them when I'm convinced I tackleit in that release
<smoser> do you have a better listi ?
<rbasak> smoser: correct
<cpaelzer> whic is why the ntp bug is on there
<rbasak> We can use milestones.
<smoser> or do we just stop discussing this. mile stones ... still require a task
<rbasak> But I don't think the milestone bug list would be filtered by bug subscriber.
<rbasak> Milestones can use the standard development task.
<rbasak> The necessary discussion should probably happen on ubuntu-release@
<rbasak> I've never considered it important enough to take on the big task of driving it.
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> well, i'm open to any suggestions on what should happen here.
<smoser> including "go on to next task"
<nacc> "go on to the next task"
<nacc> smoser: --^ :)
<smoser> s/task/section of meeting/
<smoser> all opposed ?
<smoser> tabled
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<ddstreet> no updates from slashd and me
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> did percona SRU move forward?
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> ddstreet, ^ ? per cpaelzer above ?
<ddstreet> cpaelzer sorry i'm not sure, slashd just let me know there were no updates to communicate
<ddstreet> i can check briefly
<cpaelzer> ok
 * smoser notes no string 'percona' in https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<smoser> and none at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=percona
<cpaelzer> rbasak: did you review since last week?
<smoser> so i think the answer is 'no'
<cpaelzer> ok for nos smoser,I can check the bug on my own
<rbasak> percona is waiting an Artful FTBFS last I know.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<rbasak> I haven't looked since.
<smoser> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<rbasak> I believe STS are aware.
<powersj> Last week spent a lot of time trying to get the ISO tests going again. All artful smoke tests started failing after gdebi-core was moved to universe. Utah was also attempting to injecting gdebi-core preventing testing. Modified Utah to not require gdebi at all and install via dpkg + apt-get.
<rbasak> Incidentally this probably shouldn't block the SRU if it's difficult to fix for some technical reason.
<powersj> This week the tests started hanging again over the weekend asking for the keyboard information, but I am not sure what changed. Looking into that.
<powersj> questions?
<smoser> looks like none...
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> I hear we might be resolving the final issues which kept us from moving to the final 4.13 kernel version for Artful. So that should happen rather soon. Some update to flashcache which I mentioned last time: just by odd coincidence(?) after having done so, the upstream github project showed some signs of life. Though those changes did not fix later kernels yet we re-visited this and think we have a working fix for
<smb> now. But from what we heard from upstream sources we should get rid of it in 18.04 (remove from archive).
<smb> Other than that: questions?
<ddstreet> rbasak cpaelzer smoser brief follow up on percona, yes it is waiting on a FTBFS issue that STS is currently working on
<smoser> thanks ddstreet
<smoser> moving on ... no questions seen for smb.
<smoser> so
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<smoser> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<smoser> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<smoser> that second link seems like it should be dropped unless we weekly just want to track openzfs
<smoser> :)
<slashd> smoser, just a quick note .... can you add in the meeting note or else, that I'll be absent for the next 2 weeks (conference and vacation). ddstreet will be my backup.
<smoser> k. thanks.
<slashd> smoser, tks
<ahasenack> smoser: +1 to drop the openzfs one
<smoser> see cfp link above... orconf and netdev2.2 are coming up.
<smoser> other than that
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> anyone have anything here ?
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> anything ?
<ahasenack> not from me
<cpaelzer> nope
<smoser> then closing
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-09-12 at 1600 UTC, chair will be ahasenack
<ahasenack> o/
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  5 16:29:44 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-05-16.05.moin.txt
<ahasenack> thanks smoser
<cpaelzer> thanks smoser
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-09-07
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<rcj> o/
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  7 15:05:10 2017 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<Tribaal> o/
<xnox> o/
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<cyphermox> cyphermox rcj fginther bdmurray tribaal infinity sil2100 rbalint doko mwhudson philroche tdaitx xnox Odd_Bloke slangasek
<cyphermox> I totally did not cheat to go first.
<cyphermox> please believe me.
<cyphermox> artful:
<cyphermox> - more shim-12 build fixes
<cyphermox>  - needs more work; it's not booting. :'(
<cyphermox> - netplan: fix systemd generator crash if called directly (bug LP: #1714267)
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - wpa SRU for "device not ready" (bug LP: #1576024)
<cyphermox> other stuff:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1714267 in nplan (Ubuntu) "segfault on bad usage of generator" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576024 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "Wifi "device not ready" after booting into OS for the 1st time" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576024
<cyphermox> - ubiquity reviews/merges
<cyphermox> - gave feedback to slashd on modernizing the pcp package
<cyphermox> - image testing
<cyphermox> (done)
<tdaitx> cyphermox, and you totally didn't cheat to get steve last
<gaughen> rcj:
<cyphermox> tdaitx: happy coincidence, I was too lazy to sed him out of the list today
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * Public holiday
<rcj> * Meetings with Cloud partners
<rcj> * Assisting with build failures for cloud-images
<rcj> * Updating cloud-image tools to replicate new LXD-based buildd env
<rcj> (done)
<Tribaal> (fginther is out)
<Tribaal> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> A couple of holidays
<bdmurray> confirmed apport update on the production error tracker was good
<bdmurray> tested and uploaded Xenial and Zesty fixes for xfsprogs (LP: #1696102)
<bdmurray> merged update-manager MP fixing livepatch ngettext issue (LP: #1714489)
<bdmurray> merged update-notifier MP fixing livepatch ngettext issue
<bdmurray> overrode some update-manager false positive ET regressions
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1696102 in xfsprogs (Ubuntu Zesty) "xfs/073 test fails with Metadata corruption detected on xfs file system (xfsprogs)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696102
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1714489 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Can't translate singular" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714489
<bdmurray> tested gdm3 vs lightdm lock screen issue, reported it (LP: #1715435)
<bdmurray> triaged systemd slow boot bug (LP: #1713984)
<bdmurray> reviewed seb128's update-notifier MPs regarding wayland (LP: #1697381)
<bdmurray> reported bug regarding touchpad not staying disabled (LP: #1715479)
<bdmurray> installed artful daily images and xenial desktop  to check /boot size
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1715435 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Can't lock screen with keyboard shortcuts when using lightdm" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715435
<bdmurray> reported bug regarding plymouth not accepting passphrase (LP: #1715490)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713984 in systemd (Ubuntu Artful) "started raise network interfaces - times out" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713984
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1697381 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Artful) "update-notifier segfaults under wayland (trying to use xorg clipboard to see if it's already started)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697381
<bdmurray> â done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1715479 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Touchpad won't stay disabled after resuming from suspend" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715479
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1715490 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "pretty version of plymouth won't accept passphrase" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715490
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> progressing with debugging scalingstack datasource issue with netplan images
<xnox> progressing with subiquity i18n
<xnox> fixing glibc xlocale.h fallout, too low shlibs generation
<xnox> complete ocaml mini-transition with frama-c/ocaml
<xnox> fixing adt tests from ifupdown drop
<xnox> #HIGHLIGHT glibc2.26 uploaded, regressions are being fixed in proposed at the moment
<xnox> #HIGHLIGHT cloud images without ifupdown are being debugged on clouds with mixed results
<xnox> done
<Tribaal> * [Highlight] Artful vagrant images now have a "vagrant" user on top of the default "ubuntu" user. That should provide the vagrant community with an experience more consistent with their expectations, and streamline the usual vagrant workflow and tools.
<Tribaal> * Lots of new code is being added to ubuntu-image, so some time was spend on reviews there.
<Tribaal> * Looked at a xenial AWS image problem where grub config would come back as having differences after updating a kernel, when no differences should exist.
<Tribaal> * Windows (!) machine setup for "A Projectâ¢". Why people would choose Windows as a development environment is blowing my mind in a bad way.
<Tribaal> (done)
<Tribaal> it was totally not xnox's turn
<xnox> Tribaal, totally jumped the gun
<doko> he's still young ...
<xnox> i lame bdmurray
<sil2100> infinity not around
<sil2100> I guess it's me?
<sil2100> - Prepared, tested and released WALA 2.2.16
<sil2100> - uvp-monitor:
<sil2100>   * Cleaned up copyright, did some minor fixes related to autostart
<sil2100>   * Some additional testing done on the T-Systems instances
<sil2100>   * Prepared FFE for including the new package into the Ubuntu archives
<sil2100> - Poking the LP team about a py3 bug in lazr.restfulclient
<sil2100> - With that fixed ^, proposed changes to kernel-sru-review to make it work with ESM
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Synced up on u-i classic progress
<sil2100>   * Merged in the hook API branch to classic, fixed up some tests
<sil2100>   * Initial review of the classic builder branch
<sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Prepared google-cloud-sdk 169 for partner
<sil2100> (done)
<rbalint> * lot of on-off image preparations
<rbalint> * Debian uploads: wireshark, libcec, several go packages
 * xnox * blame, not lame
<rbalint> * (highlight) finished major update to unattended-upgrades on Debian & Ubuntu side, please test (LP: #1714019, LP: #1690980, etc.)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1714019 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Please merge unattended-upgrades 0.96 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714019
<rbalint> yy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "unattended-upgrades does not block shutdown of system, as it is designed to" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<rbalint> (done)
<doko>  - worked on getting gcc-X/Y building with glibc-2.26
<doko>    integrated patches upstream
<doko>  - backport ppc64el patch to fix ffmpeg miscompilation
<doko>  - tried to cross-build glibc-2.26 / cross-toolchain-base,
<doko>    currently fails with linker error.
<doko>    https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cross-toolchain-base/18ubuntu1/+build/13343473
<doko>  - update the maven packages to get into a consistent shape,
<doko>    still some build failures.
<doko>  - Drop the obsolete _pyFPE extension from python2.7 and 3.6. Seen when
<doko>    original working on the SRU LP: #1638695.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1638695 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Xenial) "Python 2.7.12 performance regression" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638695
<doko>  - elfutils update
<doko>  - MIR's
<doko> (done)
<philroche> - Partner cloud automated tests of images build in new build environment
<philroche> - Cloud images build system vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * Investigating LP: #1710674 with new user info
<tdaitx>   - setting up environment to reproduce the issue
<tdaitx> * Checked LP: #1714956, but user has not provided reproducer, not much to go on
<tdaitx> * Created recipe to build openjdk-8 with slowdebug, but needs more testing
<tdaitx>   - installed binary needs to be manually stripped and gdb forced to use debug/source location; weird since it works fine in the normal product build
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1710674 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "Segmentation fault in os::write_memory_serialize_page " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1710674
<tdaitx> * Looking into a few build failures for java apps due to maven version
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1714956 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "OpenJDK segfaults randomly when running jenkins" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714956
<tdaitx>   - following up on mail thread about it
<tdaitx>   - ebourg suggested additional flags for the build
<tdaitx> * Other
<tdaitx>   - running some work stuff from lxd container, had some trouble with apparmor and pulseaudio, rtkit was to blame (good riddance)
<tdaitx>   - today is a holiday, will swap it later
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> xnox: 2nd round?
<xnox> see above
<xnox> done
<cyphermox> #topic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Bugs
<cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<cyphermox> [link] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<cyphermox> hrm.
<cyphermox> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<cyphermox> no feedback I guess
<bdmurray> I added bug 1715490 there
<ubottu> bug 1715490 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "pretty version of plymouth won't accept passphrase" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715490
<bdmurray> But I wonder if it isn't something with kvm and virt-manager
<bdmurray> It happened with artful and xenial
<cyphermox> yeah, I saw weird thigns with plymouth lately, I was wondering if it was qemu
<bdmurray> Do we think the importance is correct?
<cyphermox> yeah, I suppose so
<cyphermox> it's correct for my use case anyway :)
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: plymouth hangs with qxl driver
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: there is a bug if you want soemthing to track or chime in
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: ta, let's do this off-meeting
<cyphermox> ok, moving on to tracking bugs
<cyphermox> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<cyphermox> there are two bugs there to Canonical Foundations team, do we want to assign to specific people?
<cyphermox> assign to the absent, since they can't object?
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> any other bidnes?
<gaughen> cyphermox, I scheduled a discussion about tracking for Monday, we can figure out a plan then.
<doko> please get -proposed clean
<cyphermox> cool
<cyphermox> doko: +1
 * sil2100 will try to help with that
<doko> maybe it's just the autopkg testers needing to catch up, but ...
 * rbalint too
<gaughen> k
<doko> there are a lot of failing autopkg tests
 * rbalint is also processing ftbfs ones
<cyphermox> what about that issue xnox noticed with NM and glibc?
<doko> is there a record which ones we overrode before?
<cyphermox> is that somethign we should be concerned about?
<doko> cyphermox: migrate glibc now, and investigate later?
<doko> we will find new ftbfs with a test rebuild anyway, so better start that early
<cyphermox> that's not a ftbfs though
<doko> no, but the xlocale.h ones
<xnox> cyphermox, filed a bug upstream against dpkg.
<cyphermox> ok
<xnox> cyphermox, somehow network-manager manages to get a Version Reference without any any of the dynamic symbols from a higher up glibc version. I have no idea how common this is.
<cyphermox> doko: this concerns me, re: upgrade process; maybe not for NM just yet, but eventually we might hit some package that needs libc, but libc not yet upgraded
<cyphermox> it depends on the order in which things will run?
<xnox> as in, if network-manager is a unique snowflake that manages to use no new dynamic symbols.
<doko> sure, but that can be sorted out later, or you'll have to do a search of the whole release pocket for those symbols now
<xnox> doko, yes.
<xnox> doko, as discussed on the call....
<doko> are you volunteering?
<doko> oops, muted
<cyphermox> then is this the kind of thing we can avoid in the future with careful application of autopkgtests?
<xnox> doko, well yeah. i filed a bug upstream, it is reproducible in debian, so will see.
<doko> xnox: #?
<cyphermox> anything else?
<doko> xnox: do you have a reduced test case for that symbol issue?
<xnox> doko, not quite no. as there are no new dynamic symbols used, yet somehow a higher version dep gets added.
<cyphermox> that's the thing, it's not necessarily easy to make a reduced test case for this when we don't know why it comes up this way
<cyphermox> (so my question wrt. autopkgtests for glibc was about is this catchable by some carefully crafted autopkgtest in glibc watching for its own symbols and whether dpkg-gensymbols or whatnot does the right thing
 * cyphermox shrugs*
<cyphermox> doko: xnox: good to close the meeting or do we want to dsicuss this more?
<doko> no
<cyphermox> alrighty then
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  7 15:46:27 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-07-15.05.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks everyone!
<sil2100> Thanks o/
<kyrofa> Do I have the wrong time/place for the membership board meeting?
<Wild_Man> This is the time I have too, so I doubt it
<kyrofa> Alright, thanks Wild_Man
<Wild_Man> your welcome
<pleia2> hi there
<pleia2> apologies, during work hours for me so I was caught in another meeting, checking if we have board member quorum now...
<kyrofa> pleia2, no problem, understood!
<popey> Hello!
<kyrofa> Jeez popey, why are you awake?
<kyrofa> Oh it's not TOO late I guess
<pleia2> hehe
<popey> :)
<popey> At an UbuCon social event :)
<popey> Right, what's on the cards today?
<kyrofa> Ah, lovely
<pleia2> #startmeeting Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  7 20:20:03 2017 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<pleia2> #chair popey Wild_Man marcoceppi
<meetingology> Current chairs: Wild_Man marcoceppi pleia2 popey
<pleia2> welcome everyone :)
<marcoceppi> o/
<Wild_Man> Wild_Man, o/
<pleia2> ok, so we have an agenda up here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A20:00_1st_Thursday
<pleia2> kyrofa is the only one on the agenda this time around, welcome kyrofa :)
<pleia2> let's get right into this
<kyrofa> Hey, thanks :)
<popey> Oh. Him
<popey> ;)
<pleia2> #topic kyrofa membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: kyrofa membership
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KyleFazzari
<pleia2> kyrofa: feel free to introduce yourself :)
 * tsimonq2 waves
<pleia2> #chair tsimonq2
<meetingology> Current chairs: Wild_Man marcoceppi pleia2 popey tsimonq2
<kyrofa> Sure thing, hey everyone. I recognize a few of you, perhaps you've seen me around. I'm a long-time Ubuntu user. My contribution efforts began more recently, with project Sputnik, Dell's effort to ship laptops preinstalled with Ubuntu.
<kyrofa> It resulted in my authoring multiple touchpad driver patches for the Ubuntu kernel, which have since moved upstream.
<kyrofa> I've since started working at Canonical, where I mostly work on snapcraft and Ubuntu Core.
<pleia2> kyrofa: I'm historically curious, in your work with the Sputnik project were you working with Dell, Canonical or an Ubuntu community effort?
<pleia2> (or a mix?)
<kyrofa> pleia2, as a community contributor. The touchpad sucked ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> I mean, who were you submitting bugs, etc to?
<kyrofa> Oh right-- to the Sputnik LP project. Submitted patches to the Ubuntu kernel team mailing list
<pleia2> ah, neat
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: How long were you involved with that and how many patches came out of it?
<kyrofa> tsimonq2, I worked on it until the touchpad didn't have any more issues, a few weeks probably. It was several years ago now, but I believe three patches came out of it
<tsimonq2> Ah ok
<pleia2> that's awesome, totally going to start telling people that you are responsible for the touchpad working well :)
<tsimonq2> :D
<tsimonq2> Indeed, great work there :)
<kyrofa> Haha, thanks
<marcoceppi> as an early sputnik user, thank you ;)
<popey> kyrofa: also has a super beard. I think he left this off the application
<pleia2> kyrofa: I actually haven't heard much out of the ubuntu core/snapcraft world following lots of big announcements about robots and things, how is that going?
<kyrofa> popey, ah darn, I should have put it on there
<Wild_Man> kyrofa, how long have you been working with snapd and snap-confine?
<kyrofa> Wild_Man, I was on the snapd team for about 6 months. Longer if you count the random contributions I've been making while on other teams
<Wild_Man> awesome!
<kyrofa> pleia2, it's going well-- still fairly young admittedly, but we're gaining traction
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: What sort of other things besides *snap* (I mean for these to be wildcards :P) stuff have you been involved in?
<pleia2> kyrofa: that's good to hear :)
<kyrofa> tsimonq2, I was originally hired onto the Ubuntu API team, which is of course no more
<kyrofa> Excuse me-- the Unity API team
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: Ah ok, what did that entail?
<tsimonq2> (i.e. what did you do?)
<kyrofa> It was the C++ backend to the pretty Unity 8 front-end. My work revolved around the phone, the click scope, and in-app purchase
<tsimonq2> Ok, cool
<kyrofa> Mostly scope work and helping write the pay service
<tsimonq2> I see
<tsimonq2> pleia2, marcoceppi, Wild_Man, popey: Any more questions, or shall we vote?
<pleia2> #voters Wild_Man marcoceppi pleia2 popey tsimonq2
<meetingology> Current voters: Wild_Man marcoceppi pleia2 popey tsimonq2
<popey> I have no further questions
<popey> +1
<popey> Oops :)
<Wild_Man> +1
<tsimonq2> #vote kyrofa for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: kyrofa for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<tsimonq2> Wild_Man: Please vote again ;)
<Wild_Man> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Wild_Man
<marcoceppi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi
<tsimonq2> +0, while I see a lot of nice work, I think a little bit more work can be done in Ubuntu Community :)
<meetingology> +0, while I see a lot of nice work, I think a little bit more work can be done in Ubuntu Community :) received from tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: kyrofa for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: Congrats :)
<kyrofa> Thank you
 * tsimonq2 can do the adding to teams, announcements, etc.
<Wild_Man> kyrofa: Congratulations :)
<popey> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/H4CY1iOU
<pleia2> welcome, kyrofa!
<popey> Duh. Stupid cloud
<popey> Congratulations
<kyrofa> Thanks everyone! What happens next, then?
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: Added to ~ubuntumembers, if you haven't seen it yet, here are the perks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership?action=show&redirect=UbuntuMembership#The_Perks
<tsimonq2> i.e. kyrofa@ubuntu.com will be yours, etc.
<kyrofa> tsimonq2, how do I control where that points?
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: The default Launchpad address is what's set, although the Canonical sysadmins can manually change that
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: (it goes through a manual approval process)
<pleia2> thanks everyone, see you next time :)
<tsimonq2> o/ pleia2
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  7 20:42:31 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-07-20.20.moin.txt
<tsimonq2> Oh yeah, that :P
<kyrofa> Alright, thanks tsimonq2, good to know
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: You're welcome, if you have any more questions, feel free to let me know
<kyrofa> tsimonq2, how will I know when the alias is in place?
<tsimonq2> kyrofa: There's no definitive way to find that out, if you email it and it goes to the right place, it's working.
<pleia2> you don't get any notification, they generate them once or twice a week, I'd just try to email it from another address ;)
<tsimonq2> that :)
<kyrofa> Haha, okay
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-09-08
<szilard> f
<tsimonq2> g
<tsimonq2> Grr, I knew I was missing something :(
<tsimonq2> Announcement email for kyrofa sent
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-09-06
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<rbalint> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  6 15:01:11 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<rcj> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<philroche> \o
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke fginther juliank cshep)
<slangasek> doko tdaitx fginther infinity philroche xnox slangasek cshep juliank Odd_Bloke bdmurray mwhudson sil2100 rbalint cyphermox rcj
<slangasek> doko: are you at your computer?
<philroche> slangasek: We need to add tobijk & aleks_bogdanov
<slangasek> philroche: I was giving them a pass for their first meeting :)
<philroche> Welcome tobijk & aleks_bogdanov :)
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<rcj> slangasek: and cshep
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Out one day for national holiday
<fginther> * Finished work to improve the alignment of an image
<fginther> * Finished work and merged cloud-init ssh config unit tests
<fginther> * Revising a specification document related to partner image publication
<fginther> * Cloud image build system vanguarding
<fginther> â done
<fginther> infi<tab>
<fginther> not here I guess
<fginther> philroche:
<philroche> * Onboarding new team members. Welcome chep, tobijk & aleks_bogdanov :)
<philroche> * Cloud image modifications
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> xnox:
<xnox> * continued work on zkey enablement
<xnox> * s390-tools fix up #1790831
<xnox> * tboot point release / fixes ftbfs / fixes stuck in proposed &
<xnox>   migration to ssl1.1 #1731097
<xnox> * kexec-tools migrated #1783086 as well as cryptsetup & systemd
<xnox> ..
<xnox> done
<slangasek>  * short week, Labor Day
<slangasek>  * SRUs (shim, grub, nvidia)
<slangasek>  * proposed-migration:
<slangasek>   * helped shepherd glibc through
<slangasek>   * tracing various maintenance issues with autopkgtest runners
<slangasek>   * misc autopkgtest fixes
<slangasek>  * still working to get nvidia packages for clouds into their final form
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> cshep seems to be unavailable at the moment
<slangasek> juliank:
<juliank> * Fixed aptitude for boost1.67 transition (multi_index_container behavior change in 1.66)
<juliank> * Fixed packagekit crashing in providesCodec (LP: #1790671)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1790671 in packagekit (Ubuntu Bionic) "/usr/lib/packagekit/packagekitd:11:std::__cxx11::basic_string:AptIntf::providesCodec:backend_what_provides_thread:pk_backend_job_thread_setup:g_thread_proxy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1790671
<juliank> * Fixed PEP8 regression in yesterday's update-manager blocking transition
<juliank> * Started investigating the shim loading grub via iPXE in qemu (bug 1789319)
<ubottu> bug 1789319 in shim (Ubuntu) "Unable to load shimx64.efi using iPXE over UEFI" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1789319
<juliank> * Started working on manpage changes for networkctl & networkd-dispatcher to explain states (bug 1787495)
<ubottu> bug 1787495 in networkd-dispatcher (Ubuntu) "no explanation for the events in the networkd-dispatcher manpage" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1787495
<juliank> * Discussed how to make less packages manually installed
<juliank> * Discussed apt/security/landscape interactions
<juliank> (d0n3)
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke:
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke may be unavailable
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<xnox> hey
<xnox> nothing at all
<xnox> just bdmurray: and then me....
<sil2100> No Brian?
<sil2100> Should I go?
<juliank> technical issues
<xnox> sil2100, he is in the hangout
<sil2100> Ah, hangout!
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding transition of daisy to mojo env
<bdmurray> email to juliank re: u-r-u apt error string matching
<bdmurray> investigation into why team to package mapping hadn't been updated
<bdmurray> discussion with jdstrand re ubuntu-security-bugs team and pkg subscriptions
<bdmurray> submitted RT re daisy-app server log rotation
<bdmurray> submitted RT re rabbitmq server and graphite failing again
<bdmurray> duplicate bug consolidation for LP: #1789879
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1789879 in msttcorefonts (Ubuntu) "Installation error with ttf-mscorefonts-installer_3.7ubuntu3_all.deb" [Critical,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1789879
<bdmurray> testing of release upgrade failure bug reports
<bdmurray> digging into getting instance count of u-u recursion error crash
<bdmurray> reported appstream bug LP: #1790693 (discovered during upgrade testing)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1785498 in appstream (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1790693 g_atomic_ref_count_dec: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (arc) > 0' failed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785498
<bdmurray> investigation into size of retrace_amd64 queue (large due accepting 1/3 of crashes but not having 1/3 of retracers)
<bdmurray>   also issues with delete'ing files from swift and therefore removing from the queue
<bdmurray> reviewed and merged deej's nrpe changes to the daisy, retracer, and errors charms
<bdmurray> modified logrotation jobs for daisy and errors app servers
<bdmurray> started work on updates must be installed before release upgrade
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> sil2100: there now you can go
<sil2100> - Sick for parts of Monday and Tuesday (shorter week)
<sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Fixed --extra-ppas for ubuntu-image classic builds
<sil2100> - raspi3 u-i classic:
<sil2100>   * Figuring out why suddenly the local builds stopped working
<sil2100>     (I missed out some fixes when pushing to the PPA that I had locally before)
<sil2100>   * Iterating on the image builds until there's a proper rootfs
<sil2100>   * Work on fixing the gadget bits and boot-file creation (duh, the kernel is missing right now!)
<sil2100> - core18:
<sil2100>   * Some experimenting trying to build a local raspi3 core18 image for testing
<sil2100>   * Fighting with core18 image builds due to breakages in snapd
<sil2100>   * Minor PR reviews
<sil2100>   * Adding rsync to the core18 snap for debugging
<sil2100> - Some work on the britney SRU regression notification test-suite
<sil2100> - Some canidate reviews
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> bdmurray: o/
<xnox> sil2100, are ubuntu-image autopkgtest good? i saw them failing earlier....
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * fixed rax-nova-agent regression on Xenial
<rbalint> * cosmic-proposed gardening
<rbalint> * WSL updates
<rbalint> * working on LP: #1783023 but no fix yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783023 in update-manager (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Software Updater is sometimes blank when there are ONLY phased updates and auto-removable kernels" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783023
<rbalint> (done)
<rcj> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - shim-review: DriveLock
<cyphermox> - shim 15 update and SRUs
<cyphermox> - preparing netplan.io 0.40 release
<cyphermox> - optional-addresses upstream systemd work
<cyphermox> - gnu-efi SRU everywhere to support new shim, unbreak shim 13 in trusty.
<cyphermox> - test rebuilds for gnu-efi revdeps
<cyphermox> - grub2: sponsor add_ext_lfb_base_support.patch: Add support for ext_lfb_base. (LP: #1785033)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1785033 in HWE Next "GRUB needs to support 64-bit efi linear frame buffer address" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785033
<cyphermox> - investigating how to retrieving keys to validate kernel signatures
<cyphermox> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * on-boarding a new team-mate (Welcome cshep!)
<rcj> * out on Monday for federal holiday (alas not a "bank holiday" philroche)
<rcj> * meeting with cloud partners
<rcj> â
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> So there's this upgrade bug which is somehwat vague
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1789977
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1789977 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 crashed, required dpkg --configure -a to recover (multiple machines)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<bdmurray> There was an lvm2-activation segfault during or after the upgrade
<xnox> ouch
<bdmurray> I managed to find a crash about lvm2 in LP and a bucket in the error tracker.
<bdmurray> I'm not positive they are all the same issue though.
<juliank> I don't see an actual upgrade bug in the log, do you?
<juliank> regarding the dpkg --configure -a
<bdmurray> Given the quantity of crashes about lvm2 I think that should be looked at by xnox though.
<bdmurray> ;-)
<juliank> I can say it's not crashing for me :)
<bdmurray> juliank: maybe the screenlog would help?
<juliank> I was looking at AptTermLog to see which packages remained unconfigured
<slangasek> ok I think we'll take that one into trello
<slangasek> bdmurray: next?
<bdmurray> Bug 1767918 is a quick fix, just need to schedule it
<ubottu> bug 1767918 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Login password from GDM is shown in plain text on the VT1 console" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767918
<slangasek> +1 I'll pull it into backlog now
<slangasek> bdmurray: next?
<bdmurray> Maybe the desktop team should look at the comments in bug 1788220?
<ubottu> bug 1788220 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "[snap] Ubuntu 18.04 LTS includes gnome-calculator as a snap" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788220
<rbalint> can we as Foundations do anything regarding shipping or not shipping things as snaps?
<xnox> rbalint, on cloud images yes
<slangasek> well, it's not something that's going to be reverted wrt 18.04
<slangasek> if there were suggestions for concrete improvement to the implementation, that'd be one thing
<bdmurray> I was surprised by files in $HOME/snap
<xnox> the $HOME/snap is akward
<slangasek> it is surprising if you were expecting ~/. but there are arguments and that's not a decision that's going to be reverted via a bug on gnome-calculator in launchpad
<xnox> i would expect that on the server, but on desktop i would expect liek ~/.config/snap or ~/.local/snap
<slangasek> bdmurray: +1 for asking the desktop team to field this, which is ultimately 'opinion'
<xnox> because ~/.local/snap is ~+ /snap
<bdmurray> slangasek: ack
<xnox> because ~/.local/snap is ~= /snap
<slangasek> (also I think that 1.6GB disk figure is incorrect)
<bdmurray> bug 1754294 seems to be affecting some people when upgrading, while they are not ubuntu packages I wonder if there is anything we can do better there.
<ubottu> bug 1754294 in curl (Ubuntu) "After last updated libcurl3 on libcurl4, some apps are removed." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754294
<bdmurray> slangasek: That disk estimate for upgrading would need to take into account the space in /home too
<slangasek> bdmurray: sorry, is that last comment referring still to the snap thing?
<slangasek> because snaps only use space in /home after they've been executed by the user, so not an upgrade thing
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes, ah okay
<cyphermox> 1.6Gb figure does sound rather large
<cyphermox> larger even than if you also had extra bits, classic snap, etc.
<xnox> cyphermox, i think the killer is three copies mounted by default.
<slangasek> cyphermox: I did the math and get 262M for Ubuntu Desktop 18.04.  I think the user is counting disk space under /snap improperly
<cyphermox> heh
<xnox> which i think makes sense on iot, but doesn't make musch sense on a desktop with always-on interent.
<xnox> ogra, why is 3 copies, instead of just 2 for the desktop snapd deploys?
<slangasek> bdmurray: the user is complaining that we are not shipping an ABI-compatible version of the library; the library ABI has changed because time moves forward
<slangasek> bdmurray: we are not going to provide the old ABI, so those packages are going to be removed on upgrade, unless it makes the upgrade itself blow up there's nothing to do
<bdmurray> slangasek: ack, that's it from me then
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<xnox> slangasek, i believe it did blow up upgrade
<xnox> slangasek, cause php and something rather tried to load both inside mod_php and than apache would fail
<cyphermox> no aob from me
<xnox> slangasek, because some niche stack was not ported, and it should be reverted to the old abi
<xnox> done
<rcj> no aob from me
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  6 15:51:24 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-09-06-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all
<xnox> slangasek, ie. i believe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmltooling/+bug/1776489 is valid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1776489 in xmltooling (Ubuntu) "libxmltooling7 depends on libcurl3, which has been replaced by libcurl4 in Bionic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<xnox> slangasek, and we should revert that stack back to libcurl3 which we do have available in bionic
<xnox> slangasek, cause it can't apache php something rather
<xnox> or like make libcurl3 co-installable somehow
<slangasek> xnox: "that stack" meaning what, all of apache?
<xnox> slangasek, no, not all of apache, "shibboleth" packages
<xnox> i believe there is exec boundary, thus it's all fine, as long as one preloads or have the old-abi libcurl3 non-conflicting, or like recompile these 5 packages against the old one.
<xnox> cause in practice it is broken with the new one, as it needs ssl1.0
<xnox> behind libcurl api
<slangasek> xnox: I thought the shibboleth stack /was/ left on libcurl3
<xnox> yes, but not recompiled against the new libcurl3-openssl-reintroduced hence stuck with old-deps which are conflicting with curl4 and thus not co-installable with like any ubuntu install
<xnox> or possibly our libcurl3-openssl-reintroduced is itself too-conflictly, than should have been.
<slangasek> xnox: it's conflicty because it's the same soname (as per upstream) but different ABI
<slangasek> so yeah
<xnox> so we need to introduce that old abi under a new name, to make this stack work, imho.
<xnox> rpath for the win!
<pleia2> anyone here for the membership meeting?
<Wild_Man> Here
<tsimonq2> Sort of, ish.
<Wild_Man> Is the membership applicant here?
<popey> *tumbleweed*
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-09-07
<ogra> xnox, the original idea was that (on core) you always keep the originally seeded (or the ferv first version) of a snap around for "factory reset" of the images ... that the three-snaps setup is also used on desktop is because nobody implemented a way to only keep "current and last" instead of "current, last and first" ... there is some TODO somewhere on niemeyers list to fix that, but i think it is super low prio
<ogra> s/ferv/very/
<ogra> xnox, along with that there is indeed no reason to have any snaps mounted beyond the one in use, but thats also not high prio i guess
<xnox> slangasek, so yeah three things make sense "current, rollback to last known, and all the way back to the factory image"
<xnox> but as I said, three copies sounds like an "iot-ish" req, rather than desktop/server/cloud. In cloud we can rollback the whole cloud image.
<xnox> ogra, also i see 6 things 3xcore 3xcore18, unless i'm doing something really wrong.
<xnox> ogra, complaint we have is that it takes too much "space", disk-space for sure, but uncertain re RAM
<ogra> xnox, well, the loop mounts shouldnt occupy any ram until you access them i guess ...
<ogra> the "limit to two" is a re-occuring request that shows up on the forum every few months but nobody really attacked it yet
<xnox> ogra, how do I escalate it then?
<ogra> xnox, core18 gets automatically pulled i if a snap that uses 18.04 as base gets installed ... and indeed that core18 again falls under the 3 snaps rule
<xnox> Beret is not in this group chat =))))
<ogra> well, only gustavo makes the decisions ... forum and being pushy is one way ... another would be to establish a joined meeting with the core team and foundations where you bring up such requests and have them prioritized
<xnox> ogra, there is a core sync for years now.
<ogra> well, then bring it up there and have some prio applied to it
<ogra> you could try a snapd bug and set it to critical or something but i'm not sure how well that would work
<xnox> ogra, also, one more thing. on the desktop i see $HOME/snap is used
<xnox> ogra, i find that very "servery" and not at all "desktopy", how come e.g. $HOME/.local/snap was not used? which is approximate freedesktop.org equivalent of a global /snap
<ogra> xnox, there is an endless bug open about it ... snap packages that do not use any interfaces use $HOME/snap/<snapname>/current/ as their work and home dir ... to make things like downloads or files an app works with discoverable the dir can not be hidden
<ogra> bug 1575053
<ubottu> bug 1575053 in snapd (Ubuntu) "Please move the "$HOME/snap" directory to a less obtrusive location" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575053
<ogra> that design pre-dates interfaces, nowadays you can indeed simply use the home interface to have access to the XDG dirs and $HOME so apps can now use this ... when the design was created such interfaces did not exist ...
<ogra> and now the migration is rather painful since all snaps use this setup
<xnox> fun, argh
<ogra> heh, yeah
<ogra> it would also have been nicer to call it "Apps" or some such to make the purpose a bit more clear
<ogra> (i think apple does that actually)
<juliank> FWIW, I added snap/ to $HOME/.hidden
<juliank> ogra: What is terrible is that I see the Downloads directory multiple times in gnome-shell
<juliank> one for each snap
<juliank> and those are all symlinks to the main directory
<ogra> juliank, ithats actually a bug in the desktop helpers, not really snapd's fault but a remotely included tool thats adds them
<ogra> oh, wait, in gnome-shell ?
<ogra> i havent seen that yet
<juliank> Just searched for Downloads, for example
<ogra> i know there was (and probably still is) a bug that creates them multiple times in $HOME
<juliank> Might depend on if you have tracker installed
<ogra> seems the desktop helper doesnt get along with translated XDG dirs there
<juliank> like this: https://imgur.com/a/8d7Zabc
<ogra> wheer exactly do they point to ? $HOME/snap/foo ? or $HOME/Downloads ?
 * ogra looks
<juliank> $HOME/snap/spotify/16/Downloads is a symlink to $HOME/Downloads
<juliank> same for every snap and xdg directory
<juliank> which makes sense, as it's their $HOME
<ogra> hmm, is that for all snaps you have installed or only --classic ones ?
<ogra> that seems to be a classic specific bug and i dont think thats known yet
<juliank> Definitely also non-classic ones
<juliank> see gnome-calculator
<ogra> interesting ... you should definitely file it
<ogra> yeah, indeed
<ogra> i guess tracker should ignore them or so
<juliank> If I start gnome-logs I see /home/jak/snap/gnome-logs/40/Desktop was removed, reassigning DESKTOP to homedir
<juliank> and strangely enough
<juliank> ln: failed to create symbolic link '/home/jak/snap/gnome-logs/40/snap/gnome-logs/40': No such file or directory
<ogra> likely because 40 isnt there anymore
<ogra> thats all desktop-helper stuff ...
<juliank> 40 is installed
<ogra> (desktop team maintained)
<ogra> https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers.git
<ogra> i assume filing a bug for them goes via https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/issues
<ogra> the gnome-shell/tracker issue surely deserves a normal distro bug on LP
<ogra> i guess thats something they'd want to fix in upstream gnome
<juliank> this is bug 1791289
<ubottu> bug 1791289 in tracker (Ubuntu) "Shows duplicate xdg directories for snaps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1791289
<juliank> now
<juliank> :)
<ogra> :)
<xnox> ogra, i agree with current|past|factory copies, but it seems like we have current|past|very-past versions. Ie. factory version does not get pinned to e.g. first installed copy
<xnox> ogra, we only have preseeded snaps.
<xnox> ogra, or am I wrong? cause it seems like we should just drop the third copy. Cause it ain't factory-reset.
<ogra> xnox, well, afaik factory should be pinned to "whatever was installed first" but thats indeed a moving target depending on the point in time you roll the image
<ogra> seeding doesnt allow picking particular revisions
<ogra> if you drop the third copy it will automatically come back with the next silent auto-refresh that snapd does
<ogra> (btw, should we probably find a better channel ? :) )
<ogra> er ... wait ... if you define "third copy" as what is supposed to be "factory", then yes, that should be droppable ... but i'm not sure how snapd reacts to that ... i't might just blantly count to three and simply add one
<ogra> (and i think thats very likely)
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-09-03
<cyphermox> doko: cpaelzer: jdstrand: didrocks: MIR team meeting?
<cpaelzer> hi
<didrocks> hey
<cyphermox> anything to be discussed today?
<didrocks> nothing on my side
 * jdstrand is here
<jdstrand> I don't have anything
<cyphermox> ok; meeting done I guess then?
<cyphermox> jdstrand: oh actually, I'm curious about libheif's status
<jdstrand> let me look
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: other topic - I sent you a mail on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tpm2-tss/+bug/1841595
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1841595 in tpm2-tss (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tpm2-tss" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jdstrand> cyphermox: it is corrently marked as 'not required for 19.10' with 6 MIRs ahead of it, though 2 of those are in progress
<cyphermox> ah, ok
<cyphermox> because this is currently blocking a few things in proposed IIRC
<jdstrand> cyphermox: if you want to escalate that, please add a comment to trello (I can give you the link in privmsg)
<cyphermox> well, I'll confer with the Foundations team first
<jdstrand> cyphermox: ack, you and gaughen or on the card
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> thanks everyone! :)
<didrocks> thx ;)
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: my question on tpm2-tss was mostly if the foundations Team usually helps mario on these tasks, feel free to answer that in the mail if you know any background to it
<cpaelzer> thanks everyone
<cyphermox> ack
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-09-05
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<waveform> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<juliank> o/
<rbalint> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  5 15:04:40 2019 UTC.  The chair is rbalint. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> bah
<rbalint> xnox, you can continue if you want
<bdmurray> xnox: we got impatient
<rbalint> :-)
<xnox> nah
<rbalint> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox juliank waveform)
<rbalint> cyphermox sil2100 xnox infinity doko juliank rbalint vorlon waveform tdaitx bdmurray
<juliank> ugh in the middle
<cyphermox> MIR review: perl packages for lintian
<cyphermox> shim review: Oracle, ECOS Technology GmbH
<cyphermox> testing netplan SRU for xenial (DBus support)
<cyphermox> preparing a new shim snapshot for Ubuntu
<cyphermox> investigating automake-1.16 self-check-report fail
<cyphermox> proposed-migration
<cyphermox> looking at usb-modeswitch bug LP: #1800794
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1800794 in usb-modeswitch (Ubuntu) "usb-modeswitch can't apply Configuration=0 to Snapdragon X12 LTE" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1800794
<cyphermox> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - FFe reviews
<sil2100> - Fixed handling of the core18's channel during u-r-u upgrades
<sil2100> - Tested latest snap-estimate and snap-channel changes in ubuntu-release-upgrader on a VM
<sil2100> - Released u-r-u for eoan, prepared paperwork for disco
<sil2100> - Attending meeting about image building
<sil2100> - Reviewed and sponsored latest u-boot changes for future Ubuntu Nitrogen6x support, prepared FFe
<sil2100> - Reviewing latest Nitrogen6x device-support branches
<sil2100> - Added support for core20 snap-builds in our auto-rebuild automation infrastructure
<sil2100> - Investigated bileto's britney crashing for Balint's libnfs ticket
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> cyphermox:  oooh! i have plymouth pretty again. not sure what has changed =)
<xnox> * SRUs:
<xnox>   - opencryptoki pending verification
<xnox>   - openssl disco pending verification
<xnox>   - amd64-microcod epending verification
<cyphermox> xnox: plymouth?
<xnox>   - smc-tools pending aging & release
<xnox> * Uploads:
<xnox>   - bug #1836866
<ubottu> bug 1836866 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] Upgrade libica >= 3.6.0" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836866
<xnox>   - unbreak dkms tests, when skipping or not building dkms modules
<xnox>   - ocaml abi rebuild of ben
<xnox>   - upload package split of probert (make core20 smaller)
<xnox>   - merge bionic-ppa and in-archive forks of initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core
<xnox>   - to do merge in uc20 fork into eoan
<gaughen> juliank, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jFGjC2MpUU
<xnox> * uc20:
<xnox>   - build-base: core20 is in progress in snapcraft, should unlock
<xnox>     building eoan kernel snap
<xnox>   - snapcraft make plugin supporting core20 is still not in progress,
<xnox>     ping devs about it:
<xnox>     https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2619
<xnox>   - gadget snap is buildable with `base: core18` on eoan, but that is
<xnox>     invalid/incompatible to build an image. Need `base: core20`
<xnox>     support in all the things.
<xnox> done
<xnox> cyphermox:  as in on boot, instead of "splash logo" everything was "ubuntu text" theme (ie. * * * *, instead of png dots with hidpi support)
<rbalint> i guess doko?:
<doko> - vacation last Friday and last Monday
<doko> - glibc transition fun
<doko> - filing of py2removal bugs in Debian (not yet syncing from Debian)
<doko> - openjdk-11, -13, -14 uploads, merging tdaitx's changes
<doko> - one more round of toolchain updates
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> xnox: ah, yes
<xnox> video something?!
<juliank> * short week - was off Friday, Monday
<juliank> * uploaded apt 1.8.3 and apt 1.6.12 fixing various bugs, including LP: #1838771 and LP: #1829861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838771 in apt (Ubuntu Disco) "http:Fix Host header in proxied https connections" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838771
<juliank> * uploaded initramfs-tools to fix panic=-1 in eoan. Still need to get a proper reproducer for SRUs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1829861 in apt (Ubuntu Disco) "handle TLS session renegotiation" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829861
<juliank> * too much discussion about debian bug 935910
<ubottu> Debian bug 935910 in apt "apt: Should be less tolerant of dpkg errors when forcing removal" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/935910
<juliank> (done)
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * internal discussions
<rbalint> * got systemd 241 in eoan, merged 242-6, refining in bileto ppa
<rbalint> * started libnfs transition in Debian
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * short week, Labor Day on Monday.
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration
<vorlon> (done)
<doko> refining systemd?
<bdmurray> WaVeR:
<waveform> * Short week (off Monday/Tuesday)
<waveform> * Finished new boot configuration files and migration (lots of examples in comments)
<waveform> * Tested new u-boot configuration and migration on various pi releases and on bionic
<waveform> * Pi4 kernel work
<waveform> (done)
<rbalint> doko, fixing last regressions
<bdmurray> oops another wave
<tdaitx> * fixed python-packaging
<tdaitx> * uploaded jck-11 snap & got approval for classic snap
<tdaitx>   - tested uploaded snap
<tdaitx> * working on security fixes for apport & whoopsie
<tdaitx>   - tracked some lib repo changes for whoopsie
<tdaitx>   - testing apport fixes
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - out tomorrow
<tdaitx> - working from Mon-Wed next week, GMT+3 time zone (so pretty jet lagged)
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> contemplated apport/gdb .gnu_debugaltlink issues
<bdmurray> contacted IS regarding stg-geonames setup on wendigo
<bdmurray> created an RT about having a model built for the above
<bdmurray> chucked an email to RT about testing new version of daisy
<bdmurray> cut mlocate from the standard seed of ubuntu
<bdmurray> corresponded with ubuntu-devel via email regarding unseeding of mlocate
<bdmurray> consulted regarding wording of ESM in motd for trusty
<bdmurray> converted wording changes into a bug LP: #1842508
<bdmurray> coaxed lxml to migrate out of -proposed for eoan
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1842508 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Trusty) "motd messaging changes regarding apt updates" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1842508
<bdmurray> celebrated the day of labor on 9/2 (holiday)
<bdmurray> colluded with gaughen regarding team event
<bdmurray> captivated my comrades with my status report
<bdmurray> (done)
<rbalint> any question on status?
<rbalint> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<rbalint> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> there is nothing new for rls-ee
<xnox> bdmurray:  contempt you should be held in
<rbalint> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<xnox> waveform:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1817133
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1817133 in Ubuntu "No bluetooth on 18.04 for raspi3 arm64" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rbalint> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<gaughen> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<gaughen> okay nothing to look at here.
<gaughen> back to your show rbalint
<rbalint> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<rbalint> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<rbalint> imagemagick is still mir
<rbalint> lintian deps are mir-ed
<cyphermox> yup, reviewing them
<gaughen> rbalint, cyphermox on thos MIRs... are they on track to happen this cycle?
<rbalint> gaughen, i believe so
<cyphermox> gaughen: the lintian MIRs won't block, I expect
<vorlon> build-essential says it's 'waiting' on test results, for 8 days
<vorlon> someone want to retrigger those?
<doko> cyphermox: they are blocking
<doko> colin asked today as well
<cyphermox> doko: i mean they won't take inordinate amounts of time to review
<vorlon> who's responsible for next steps on those MIRs?
<vorlon> doesn't look like the bugs are filed yet
<doko> they are
<vorlon> they don't show up on https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed , so bugs not in the right state?
<cyphermox> vorlon: I'm reviewing them, as per my status
<rbalint> i point to the mirs from the card
<cyphermox> the bugs are brand new from doko earlier today
<vorlon> k, bug created more recently than the last c-m report generation
<doko> component-mismatches seems to be out of date
<vorlon> build-essential?
<doko> last run at noon
<rbalint> i'm looking into the lintian test, i incorrectly remembered that only deps are missing from main
<gaughen> so where are we on the list now?
<rbalint> twisted, i think
<rbalint> no, build-essential
<vorlon> rerunning the tests for gtk+3.0 that went missing against build-essential
<vorlon> somebody already did it
<vorlon> oh, that was automatic
<vorlon> looks like gtk+3.0 new upload introduced autopkgtests, which is why it's newly-blocking build-essential
<vorlon> actually I'm not sure why gtk+3.0 and pulseaudio are newly-blocking if they weren't before
<vorlon> but I'm willing to ignore those
<vorlon> so the only real blocker we need to care about there is lintian/armhf
<vorlon> rbalint: is that the one you said you were looking into?
<rbalint> vorlon, yes
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> twisted -> gvfs/ppc64el ?
<rbalint> i just retriggered twisted on ppc64el
<vorlon> yeah, I've done that a couple times as well
<rbalint> it seems quite flaky
<rbalint> maybe we could just hint it
<vorlon> probably
<vorlon> I'll follow up
<vorlon> gdb -> libapp-stacktrace-perl/armhf?
<vorlon> those packages seem not-unrelated
<doko> waveform: ^^^
<rbalint> waveform, could you take that?
<rbalint> lintian, man-db is lintian
<vorlon> liberror-perl -> courier-filter-perl?
<rbalint> it seems to be an installability issue, anyone?
<sil2100> I can take it if anything
<sil2100> Is it carded?
<rbalint> gaughen, ? ;-)
<gaughen> I'll card it!
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> gaughen: courier-filter-perl/0.200+ds-4: amd64 (log, history), arm64 (log, history), armhf (log, history), i386 (log, history), ppc64el (log, history), s390x (log, history)
<sil2100> This ^
<rbalint> and we are done i think
<gaughen> thanks!
<rbalint> #topic AOB
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<bdmurray> xnox: Do you remember creating the python-sphinxapi package?
<cyphermox> I'll be at Plumbers at the beginning of next week; access to IRC might be spotty but there'll always be Telegram
<gaughen> just a quick reminder of upcoming release dates
<gaughen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EoanErmine/ReleaseSchedule
<gaughen> Beta is 26 Sept
<gaughen> that's 3 weeks from today
<gaughen> Final Freeze is 10 Oct
<gaughen> 5 weeks from today
<gaughen> that's it for me rbalint
<rbalint> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  5 15:51:45 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-09-05-15.04.moin.txt
<rbalint> thank you all!
<sil2100> o/
<gaughen> thank you rbalint!
<gaughen> oooh wait
<gaughen> who is on for next week?
<gaughen> xnox it is!
<rbalint> xnox, !
<sil2100> When will I be able to chair?!
<xnox> sil2100:  you are it
<sil2100> gaughen: (I can chair next week if anything)
<gaughen> thank you sil2100 sounds like you are it!
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-09-01
<cpaelzer> hiho party people ddstreet didrocks jamespage sarnold doko (not yet around)
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  1 14:30:18 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of pre
<ddstreet> o/
<cpaelzer> well we had no individual items (but plenty of bugs) so next subtopic ...
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current compo
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> there is a bunch of lintian->perl dependencies that usually doko handles directly
<cpaelzer> there also is a slightly simpified process for them that vorlon mentioned - we should be ok to wait for doko to come back
<cpaelzer> the rest is all known cases
<cpaelzer> and many on a good way to resolve
<cpaelzer> the two open categories IMHO are the set of jamespage paramiko/masakari - any updates on that jamespage?
<cpaelzer> and the sorting of responsibilities on khronos-opencl-clhpp - didrocks did you have any success passing that to the kernel team?
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> hi ddstreet and sarnold
<ddstreet> hello
<jamespage> o/
<didrocks> cpaelzer: still blocked on management level
<jamespage> apologies late
<didrocks> didnât get any news :/
<cpaelzer> ok didrocks
<cpaelzer> jamespage: no problem, do you have an update what/when to expect on the packages I mentioned?
<jamespage> masakari depends is with the security team to review
<jamespage> (included crypto stuff)
<jamespage> I thought coreycb or icey had raised an MIR for python-invoke - I'll chase
<cpaelzer> that would be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-sqlalchemy-utils/+bug/1543641 then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543641 in python-sqlalchemy-utils (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-sqlalchemy-utils" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> yep
<jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-invoke/+bug/1892875
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892875 in python-invoke (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-invoke" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> I have not seen a MIR for python-invoke
<jamespage> is the invoike bug
<cpaelzer> hmm, why isn't this showing up
<sarnold> not subscribed?
<jamespage> is now
<cpaelzer> yep
<jamespage> but yes that was the problem
<cpaelzer> ok now it needs a reviewer
<jamespage> I said Id take that
<cpaelzer> great
<cpaelzer> I'll assign you to make that clear
<jamespage> done
<cpaelzer> and it will be showing in mismatches that there is a bug
<cpaelzer> great
<cpaelzer> didrocks: you had AA powers right?
<cpaelzer> one more in component mismatch - libubootenv was resolved everything on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libubootenv/+bug/1885142 is in place - just waits for an AA to promote
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1885142 in libubootenv (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libubootenv-tool, libubootenv0.1" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<didrocks> yep!
<didrocks> will do
<cpaelzer> great
<cpaelzer> the last thing I find puzzling in mismatches is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1536870
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1536870 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-software" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> re-promotion or does it show up due to an accident?
<cpaelzer>  gnome-software | 3.36.1-2ubuntu2                                     | groovy/universe | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
<cpaelzer> that is a desktop question so didrocks ^^ ?
<cpaelzer> leaving that for later and going on :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
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<cpaelzer> we can skip that as there are none except oem packages
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bu
<sarnold> \o/
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> we see plenty of cases that the MIR Team members handled last week
<cpaelzer> ostress/fltapack I've seen didrocks and google-guets-agent as well
<cpaelzer> the ccid and others (6 overall) I handled yesterday
<cpaelzer> so many of our past MIR review assignments are done, let us check what is open in the next topic
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other bus
<cpaelzer> which of the assigned MIR reviews are still up?
<ddstreet> i still have malcontent, assigned last week, i should get to it this week
<cpaelzer> doko still has mdevctl
<cpaelzer> since he was out that is no surprise
<cpaelzer> but he hopefully gets to it soon once fulyl back
<cpaelzer> sarnold: what was it you had open?
<cpaelzer> was that done now?
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinih/+bug/1883890 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883890 in libinih (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libinih" [Undecided,New]
<sarnold> I had libinih, it's done for my part
<sarnold> well
<cpaelzer> great so not a lot of blocking on us
<sarnold> I did have a few open questoins :) how does one determine built-using?
<cpaelzer> sarnold: it is in the package meta info
<sarnold> and I thought it needed a list of which specific binaries to promote
<sarnold> cpaelzer: is that in the source package? or launchpad?
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: just a day ago landed the "list of binaries to promote" change with me and it is in my git and the official Wiki review template
<cpaelzer> sarnold: you just run apt-cache show <pkg> on it
<cpaelzer> which lists the built-using
<cpaelzer> BTW a not on that, it seems Debian will switch it to some X-* field sometime down the road
<cpaelzer> as Built-using is overloaded with too many different meanings
<cpaelzer> ruby or rust (not sure which) already uses a different field
<cpaelzer> and go might at some point as well
<sarnold> oh sheesh :)
<cpaelzer> so keep your eyes open when checking that an empty Buitl-using is unlikely to be true
<sarnold> well, I guess it's better to get 'specific use' sorted out sooner rather than letting it fester for decades
<cpaelzer> sarnold: you might pass that to the seucirty Team as well
<cpaelzer> just to be sure your scanners&tooling will adapt as needed
<cpaelzer> but so far nothing happened, just intentions that were mentioned
<cpaelzer> ok I'd close the meeting here for the week
<cpaelzer> unless there is anything else - happy reviewing
<cpaelzer> see you all
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  1 14:50:55 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-09-01-14.30.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
<ddstreet> thanks all o/
<didrocks> cpaelzer: urgh, just got the whole backlog, seems I was disconnected :/
<didrocks> cpaelzer: gnome-software needs investigation due to the snap version, Iâll check
<cpaelzer> ok thanks for checking on that didrocks
<cpaelzer> if the snap has taken over for real then you might want/need to remove the dependncy pulling it in?
<didrocks> cpaelzer: right, I need to check that with seb if this was the intended situation
<vorlon> cpaelzer: doko is back this week
