#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-09
<snap-l> brousch: Yes, yes I am 85 years old
<snap-l> Reminder: There's a monthly IRC meeting at 9pm
<Thirtysixway> here?
<rick_h__> party
<snap-l> here, yes.
<rick_h__> irc meeting > work meeting?
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h__> sorry, thinking of you always talking about XXX meeting at work
<rick_h__> trying to think of the name, web something?
<snap-l> Webex
<rick_h__> yea, that's it
<rick_h__> anyway, irc linux mtg > webex work meeting to start the week off
<snap-l> Oh most definitely
<snap-l> I wish all of my meetigs were on IRC
<rick_h__> it's time!
<snap-l> Well, most of them
<rick_h__> so anyone know if greg-g made it back yet?
<snap-l> Yep, let's call it to order
<snap-l> greg-g: Are you online?
<snap-l> OK, I think he's still making way back to the great catcher's mitt
<rick_h__> crap
<rick_h__> anyone have the link to the agenda then?
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/60/detail/
<snap-l> That's the link to the agenda
<snap-l> Anyone have anything to add?
<rick_h__> was going to bring up mug this tues
<rick_h__> if anyone wants to submit a lightning talk on something loco-ish would be cool
<rick_h__> some natty love, or maybe something else
<snap-l> Yeah, the more the merrier
<snap-l> I'll be talking about Gogle Voice
<rick_h__> so first, anyone else here in this meeting betsides me and snap-l ?
<snap-l> Don't be shy. :)
<_stink_> here
<snap-l> Great, three people... let's start a magazine. ;)
<rick_h__> I get the back page
<snap-l> gah...
<snap-l> I was going to call back page.
<snap-l> Someone listened to TWiT recently.
<rick_h__> ok, so MUG meeting tues, you coming _stink_ ?
<_stink_> rick_h__: very unlikely. :/  Tuesdays are more or less impossible
<rick_h__> gah, ok well then
<snap-l> _stink_: So, yes, then?
<rick_h__> hah
<_stink_> hah.  you sound like a former boss of mine.
<rick_h__> ok, so our group is giving two lightning talks so far
<rick_h__> sounds like some good rep of the loco, not ubuntu topics, but still cool
<rick_h__> next up, penguicon...so anything interesting happen?
<snap-l> Well, regardless, if anyone is going, and wants to talk, by all means let the folks at MUG know
<snap-l> Penguicon, as always was awesome
<snap-l> not as much tech as I would have liked, but good stuff
<snap-l> jcastro spread the love on Unity and Natty
<snap-l> Got me considering running the damn thing. :)
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> sucker!
<snap-l> Release party was awesome. If anyone has any photos on flickr, please add them to the group
<_stink_> ... does it work now?
<_stink_> unity
<rick_h__> just don't touch it
<snap-l> _stink_: Works as well as the beta
<snap-l> so if you were working prior to the beta, then you'll still be working
<snap-l> but if you were hosed, you're likely still hosed.
<snap-l> But I have to say it's pretty sweet overall
<rick_h__> so I wanted to see what people thought about the release party like that
<rick_h__> I'm wondering if we need to find a better room/way going forward?
<snap-l> rick_h__: if we're doing it at Penguicon, it would be nice to have a room party
<snap-l> That way we would be on the schedule
<rick_h__> ok, what's the time frame for that to put together?
<rick_h__> should we put some notes on a calendar now for "schedule room" or something?
<greg-g> heya, home now
<rick_h__> yay, greg-g can take over now
<greg-g> yeah, so, the date for the LoCo sponsored MUG meeting is... June right? or was it may :/
<rick_h__> it's june
<greg-g> ok, good
<rick_h__> mug meeting is this tues for lightning talks
<greg-g> right
<rick_h__> and they'd love some more talks so if anyone is coming and wants to spend 5-10min on something cool, encourage you all to submit
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> send an email to the ubuntu-us-mi list?
<greg-g> I can, if you want
<rick_h__> I didn't, I figured that's mug board people :P
 * greg-g looks at snap-l 
<snap-l> What did I not do now? :)
<rick_h__> do you think we should send to the mi list for mug this week?
<rick_h__> or too late don't bother?
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll send something
<greg-g> coolio
<snap-l> I'll send that out tomorrow
<greg-g> snap-l / rick_h__ : other than the need for an actual room next year, anything else from the release party?
<snap-l> We had a LOT of people there
<snap-l> some who were part of the loco, and some new faces
<greg-g> awesome
<snap-l> Plus some folks just hanging out
<rick_h__> yea, we should start pimping the Loco MUG meeting
<rick_h__> try to get a lot of the new faces there
<greg-g> so, I'm wondering if I should make up a basic template for a "sign-in" kind of sheet, or at least, "add me to the mailing list"
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602144130086252498
<rick_h__> greg-g: what about the other way, like business cards to hand out?
<rick_h__> with the site, list, irc info, etc
<greg-g> not a bad idea
<rick_h__> I guess I just don't don't want to be the one collecting info
<rick_h__> but don't mind handing stuff out
<greg-g> yeah, hear ya
<greg-g> so, ok, I'll put that on my list for this week, creating a basic business card
<rick_h__> cool, I know some other locos have done some things
<rick_h__> maybe we can crib off them
<greg-g> oh yeah, I'll take a look around
<rick_h__> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-in/2010-October/000914.html for instance
<rick_h__> but yea, I think that would be cool before the next release party
<rick_h__> and willing to help sponsor that
<greg-g> oh right, forgot about that
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> duly noted
<snap-l> That would be cool
<greg-g> awesome.. so, are we good on speakers for our meeting?
<snap-l> I think the only one confirmed is rick_h__
<rick_h__> I've not heard, do we have a wiki page up with submissions?
<greg-g> all I have in my tomboy note is you, rick_h__
<rick_h__> and have we written the check to MUG?
<greg-g> we haven't, but i have the money
<greg-g> so I can whenever
<rick_h__> it's all confirmed/what not
<rick_h__> ah ok
<rick_h__> ok, well some ideas: some ubuntu one talk would be awesome I think
<greg-g> alright, so, after the MUG meeting this week, on Wed, I'll send a note to the list asking for participation
<rick_h__> cool
<greg-g> good idea
<rick_h__> let me know before you send it out
<greg-g> yeah, def
<rick_h__> we can try to generate a list of interesting bits
<rick_h__> and try to recruit people for talks vs just "anyone want to do anything"
<greg-g> right right, much better
<snap-l> I'm creating an event on the calendar now
<greg-g> awesome
<greg-g> thanks buddy
 * greg-g has been using "buddy" too much recently
<rick_h__> greg-g is just friendly like that
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> my friendliness got me through security today without ID :)
<rick_h__> happened ot my wife a while ago
<rick_h__> got her purse stolen in DC
<rick_h__> ugh
<greg-g> ugh
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> glad you made it safe
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/974/detail/
<snap-l> Yeah, greg-g, that sucks (no ID)
<brousch> loco meeting in eefect?
<greg-g> brousch: indeed
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, boyeeeee
<greg-g> just in time for the near ending ;)
<rick_h__> brousch: how was the west side release party?
<rick_h__> any notes to think about going forward?
<brousch> it was pretty good
<brousch> it was held at the usual wmlug meeting, and had about double normal wmlug attendence
<snap-l> rick_h__: I think we need to get some more folks to commit to the meeting
<snap-l> the mug meeting, I mean
<rick_h__> snap-l: yea, definitely
<brousch> it's bigger if held with grlug
<rick_h__> I mean, we don't need 10min lightning talks
<snap-l> We'll have one more meeting prior
<rick_h__> but 4 or so would be good
<greg-g> brousch: awesome
<snap-l> but would be good to get some more folks to commit
<snap-l> I'll commit as a last resort to showing off Unity
<rick_h__> well will ping smoser and jcastro
<snap-l> kk
<rick_h__> I think it'd be cool to see jcastro show off some ubuntu one/banshee goodness
<greg-g> brousch: oh yeah, nice blog post on unity, btw
<rick_h__> and smoser maybe something interesting cloud-side for things going on
<snap-l> Assuminghe's in town. ;)
<rick_h__> yea, well they're gone this week I know
<rick_h__> so next couple of weeks, but should be back in June
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h__> /in/by/
<snap-l> OK, so who wants to bang the drum for participants?
<greg-g> for LoCoMUG? I can
<rick_h__> so after the meeting this week greg-g and I will work on an email
<snap-l> OK, cool
<rick_h__> but we'll wait until Tues clears
<greg-g> with rick_h__ , of course
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> but you'll do this week, right snap-l ?
<greg-g> (ie: hey! give lightning talks!)
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll mail out for this week's MUG meeting
<greg-g> word
<snap-l> Any more to talk about re: MUG foo?
<rick_h__> well just need to cooridnate the dollars there
<greg-g> snap-l: question for you/board: just bring the check the day of?
<snap-l> Yeah, that sould be fine
<greg-g> ok, cool
<snap-l> There's no worries about getting paid.
<rick_h__> anything else they need from us?
<greg-g> you know how to get me :)
<snap-l> we know greg-g is good for it
<rick_h__> I'm sure they want some committed stuff to pub before hand
<snap-l> and we'll lay the smack down if not. ;)
<snap-l> Most definitely
<snap-l> The sooner the better. :)
<greg-g> I'd like to write up a little one pager with the list of names from the people who donated to give with the check, just for ceremonial sake :)
<snap-l> esp before 5/31
<brousch> get one of those giant checks
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, definitely!
<greg-g> oh ed mcmahon
<rick_h__> has widox done anything lately? maybe we'll rope him in during a CHC meeting
<greg-g> doit!
<rick_h__> love irc'ing when people are afk
<greg-g> need to get him up here
<rick_h__> we're coming widox, watch out...
<greg-g> s/here/there/
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Anything else, or should we put a bow on it, and call it a day?
<greg-g> a day
<snap-l> Also, Michael Arrington is an ass
<rick_h__> lol, what did he do now?
<snap-l> http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/07/tech-press-screw-them-all/
<snap-l> Also, Facebook comments are bullshit
<rick_h__> hah
<snap-l> OK, I think we're done then. ;)
<snap-l> Thanks everyone!
<greg-g> thank you for getting it started without me!
<jjesse> we have a meeting?
<snap-l> Hope to see each and every one of you special snowflakes at MUG on Tuesday
<rick_h__> bookie demo woot
<snap-l> Looking forward to taht.
<brousch> ucast it
<brousch> ustream
<jordon_> Does anyone have a good irc client suggestion?
<snap-l> irssi
<snap-l> xchat
<brousch> pidgin
<jordon_> thanks
<jordon_> I'm not a fan of konversation
<brousch> running kde?
<jjesse> quassel is the default
 * widox hides under desk
<widox> rick_h__:  --^
<brousch> rick_h__: did you see this article? http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide
<brousch> very thorough
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, saw it and have it open
<rick_h__> haven't had a chance ot read it yet, home with sick boy
<brousch> ug, good luck
<rick_h__> heh, no problem, just another round of pink eye
<brousch> luckily we haven't encountered that one
<brousch> cross-platform mobile dev is full of fail
<brousch> i'm afraid i will have to re-learn java if i want to work on my android apps
<rick_h__> it's not that bad
<rick_h__> very contageous, but we get it regularly it seems
<rick_h__> as for mobile, web or fail
<rick_h__> going to have a jquery mobile version of bookie coming next
<brousch> i need the camera and i need to mess with maps
<rick_h__> well maps is ok with geo location
<rick_h__> but yea, camera I'm not sure on
<rick_h__> google is working on it, but it's not there yet
<brousch> i need to actually add elements to the maps and move them around
<brousch> well, i need the user to do that
<greg-g> brousch: what is this for? work or pleasure?
<brousch> pleasure
<greg-g> cool
<brousch> greg-g: at least they were pleasure until i realized i will have to use java ;)
<snap-l> Google just needs to implment Objective C on the JVM. ;)
<snap-l> Then you can have developer bliss
<rick_h__> heh
<brousch> i need a pyjamas-like thing that generates java (not bytecode) from python
<rick_h__> brousch: have you checked out phonegap and such?
<brousch> they seem very hacky
<snap-l> They keep saying that platform fragmentation is scaring away Android developers, but I think the real reason is nobody wants to do more than one project in  Java
<brousch> i can't get titanium to sync its example project to the emulator
<brousch> and phonegap seems really light on documentation
<brousch> maybe i'm wrong about phonegap. i just found another big chunk of docs
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, I'm not sure to be honest. It's one of those things to check out when I get a chance
<rick_h__> ColonelPanic001: was checking out osmething that was ruby based I think
<rick_h__> rather do ruby than java
<snap-l> ++
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<ColonelPanic001> http://rhomobile.com/
<rick_h__> ColonelPanic001: what was the mobile thing?
<wolfger> snap-l: devs are being scared away? Or is it just that they realize the world doesn't need another flashlight app?
<brousch> i don't think i gave phonegap a fair shake
<snap-l> wolfger: The world always needs flashlight apps
<ColonelPanic001> personally, I often kind of hate rhomobile. Seems like some very basic things (like setting a cookie in a webview in iPhone) don't work, get filed as a bug, and I have  yet to hear back
<snap-l> especially ones that make sure your phone is charged before turning it on
<ColonelPanic001> ymmv, etc
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, I've heard a lot of good things on phonegap
<snap-l> after all, in every horror movie, the first thing to die is the flashlight. ;)
<rick_h__> but anything non-native will have it's complications
<rick_h__> which is why I keep thinking one day I'll end up getting that Java book
<rick_h__> just trying to avoid iOS and C
<brousch> right. i really need an iphone+android version of these apps i'm making, and i'd rather not learn objective-c
<brousch> looking at phonegap again, i think it might work. html+javascript is worth some pain if i can avoid java
<brousch> also it would be just plain weird to use python at work and java at home
<snap-l> But it wouldn't be weird to use java at work and python at home. ;)
<brousch> right
<wolfger> right
<brousch> whoa, it worked. i have a map centered on my location
<snap-l> nice!
<brousch> i think i am supposed to use the usual javascript google maps api, so there should be a lot of help for me going forward
<wolfger> jjesse sent me spam? (no, not really)
<wolfger> got spam from "Jessie J" and looked at it on the off chance it was legit, since the name sounded familiar
<jjesse> hahaha
<jjesse> nope not me at all
<wolfger> creeps me out how some spam e-mails manage to use names that are not *quite* names of people I know, but very close
<jjesse> i've been getting a lot of email in my gmail account from people who either write down the wrong email address when applying for something or the person entering the data types it wrong
<jjesse> stuff such as dental appointments, car buying information and even alumni funds
<wolfger> I get e-mails from German speaking people trying to communicate with some other Wolfger 2-3 times a year
<snap-l> wolfger: Thing is, if jjesse was sending you a mail, he'd begin it "Fellow Komrade"
<snap-l> That's how you know. ;)
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> snap-l: wtf? Lightning talks on 5/10?
<wolfger> That's a Wings playoff game night :-p
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> Sorry, I know that hockey will still be played until September
<snap-l> At which point we _might_ know who won the Stanley Cup
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> I'm pretty sure we'll know definitively before July
<wolfger> you should have the decency to postpone the meeting until 5/11
<snap-l> wolfger: If gib shows up, you'll be able to watch the meeting over his conferencing system
<wolfger> oh, right... (computer geeks) == !(sports fans)
<snap-l> Assuming that the network works, the camera isn't pointed up someone's nose, and there aren't solar flares.
<wolfger> rofl
<wolfger> I'm not going to make all 3 of those assumptions
<wolfger> well I plan to watch the video conference, and derive some value from it, just to prove snap-l wrong. :-D
<snap-l> Please do. I want this to work
<wolfger> but I will probably see the inside of somebody's nose instead
<brousch> bah, tivo the game and watch it later
<wolfger> are you insane???
<brousch> if you're lucky you'll hear the score before you watch and can save yourself 2 or 3 hours
<jjesse> watch the game in fast forward
<wolfger> exactly why that's not acceptable
<wolfger> I don't want to save myself 2 or 3 hours
<wolfger> I do tend to dvr the game and start watching a half hour late so I can FF through commercials and intermission
<_stink_> that is the best strategy for sure
<wolfger> jjesse: watching in FF is what I do when the game sucks (i.e. most Lions games prior to last season)
<jjesse> i watch tiger games like that as well
<wolfger> baseball *must* be watched in fast forward, just so you can see the action
<_stink_> the thing about watching in FF is that you can catch all the 'important' stuff, but you don't get any feel for how the game is.
<wolfger> otherwise you get 10 minutes of the pitcher looking over his shoulder at the runner on first base
<_stink_> like who is playing well, poorly, which team is better
<wolfger> _stink_: That's why I save it for games where I already know my team is sucking... and baseball...
<wolfger> scratch that. i don't actually watch baseball
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> i would love to watch baseball, but that is the lowest priority among all the sports, so i never get to it.
<wolfger> oh, I give basketball the basement priority
<wolfger> I would rather even watch nascar
<brousch> all sports are a waste of time
<wolfger> which is sad
<brousch> watching them
<_stink_> hmm, i had forgotten about basketball.
<_stink_> and nascar is not a sport.
<_stink_> i guess for me it's soccer -> hockey -> other awesome stuff like rugby/aussie rules -> football -> baseball.
<_stink_> but i can't even watch all the soccer that's on, so really it's soccer and red wings.
<wolfger> My watching priority is: Lions (when they don't suck), Red Wings, Lions when they suck, poker (not really a sport, but it's on the sports channels), soccer, everything else that I never watch intentionally but will if somebody else is.
<_stink_> so you're a Lions fan? :)
<wolfger> Depends on the year :-)
<wolfger> some years, I watch Lions games just to root for the other team
<_stink_> haha
<wolfger> but last year I was a fan, and this year I plan to be as well
<ColonelPanic001> I've seen a grand total of maybe an hour of football. It was a fascinating display of walking around.
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: you watched golf and thought it was football? ;-)
<ColonelPanic001> Golf at least doesn't pretend it's much more than walking around.
<wolfger> golf... the only thing more boring than basketball
<_stink_> i would take watching golf over pro basketball.
<_stink_> golf is great background TV for a Sunday.
<ColonelPanic001> background TV == radio
<wolfger> football became a lot more interesting to me once I started looking at it from a combat perspective. Formations of people out to hurt each other whilst pursuing an objective.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, might be fun to play, but boring as hell to watch.
<_stink_> i would love to know more about blocking schemes, yeah
<_stink_> but i am just a nerd
<_stink_> http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/05/09/commodore.64.reborn/index.html?hpt=C2
<_stink_> hah
<wolfger> _stink_: that is so FTW. Aside from the price.
<brousch> i like to bowl and golf, but i can't stand to watch either on tv
<snap-l> I'll believe it when I see it (re: the C64 PC case)
<snap-l> Seems whatever entity calls itself commodore has a real problem with delivering anything
<tjagoda> Says its supposed to ship in june
<tjagoda> you dont have long to wait
<snap-l> They were also planning on resurrecting the AMIGA
<snap-l> and that pretty much died
<snap-l> Oh, I love conference calls where something is found defective, and someone wonders why testing didn't find this
<snap-l> "the barn door is open, and the horse is gone. How did this happen?"
<wolfger> heh
<wolfger> yeah, that's always great
<wolfger> "The good news is, your hindsight is perfect. The bad news is, your foresight needs a stronger prescription."
<snap-l> And I suspect that the testing is done to make it easy for humans to do testing
<snap-l> which is why I'm very much for automated testing
<snap-l> computers don't look for shortcuts.
<wolfger> now if only we could get  a computer to *write* the automated tests....
<wolfger> Alas... until Skynet goes fully operational, there will always be a human element to contribute to failure.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/04/22/open-metalcast-special-episode-cloudkicker/#comments
<snap-l> This makes me happy
<greg-g> snap-l: awesome!
<rick_h__> wheee, the review I've been waiting for
<rick_h__> so, do I go for soul crushing peer review?
<rick_h__> light peer review
<rick_h__> or just flat out due/evil?
<binbrain> I can't wait till peer review time here. The new guy likes to use slots for everything
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> no one at my work knows what slots are
<binbrain> that's good for the most part
<binbrain> very few use cases for them
<rick_h__> I don't know, if you know what slots are you've at least looked at nametuples and probably know a little about performance tuning
<wolfger> peer review?
<rick_h__> ok, that reads mean, but there's no way to get around it.
 * rick_h__ clicks submit
<wolfger> how does that work?
<wolfger> I am without peer... :-D
<rick_h__> heh, your boss asks 5 people to fill out an online review of your work
<rick_h__> then combines it all and lets you know how you pissed off everyone during the year
<wolfger> yeah, it's way too easy for that to become a popularity contest
<binbrain> and the person that receives the most criticism is immediately killed
 * rick_h__ goes back to edit more bad stuff into his review
<rick_h__> I didn't know that part
<wolfger> "I don't like this guy" and/or "I feel threatened by how much smarter he is" turns into "bad review"
<rick_h__> well bosses job to read between the lines
<binbrain> rick_h_, eXtreme peer review
<rick_h__> end of the day you sit down with your boss, go over your goals for the year, set new ones, maybe ask about a raise
<wolfger> whee
<rick_h__> yea, fun stuff ...ugh
<wolfger> I'd like a job with performance reviews and raises. I almost remember what they were like.
<rick_h__> heh, it's my first
<rick_h__> but already hating it
<wolfger> and it's always nice to know everybody else thinks I'm more talented than I am
<rick_h__> since you get asked to do reviews for people you barely work with
<binbrain> goals... here goals are basically I'll assign you a ticket and you fix it. I remember goals at my other job "Ensure streamlined process flow for business success at an enterprise level"
<rick_h__> and the whole 'how honest, cagey, or flat out lying' do you do
<rick_h__> well, I had goals to prepare and preset 'classes' for the staf
<wolfger> oh, I meant regular reviews, not peer reviews. That sounds crappy
<rick_h__> that ended up being complete waste of time since they don't use the crap anyway
<snap-l> Shoot me now
 * rick_h__ loads up
<snap-l> User posted Java code that is escaped XML code with string concatenation
<rick_h__> snap-l: so the request for your new machine with eclipse pre-installed go through?
<rick_h__> yay!
<rick_h__> how nice that he escaped it for you
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm happy.
<snap-l> She, I believe
<wolfger> heh
 * wolfger simultaneously laughs at the described Java code and hides some of his old Perl code that was the same way....
<snap-l> This is also someone who was asking when they can move their code to production last week
<snap-l> wolfger: Perl is different
<wolfger> because people expect it to look like garbage?
<snap-l> I'd expect someone to piece together an XML response like this in Perl
<snap-l> but when Java has a built-in-library for this express purpose, I'd expect people to use it
<snap-l> especially since IT'S IN THE FUCKING EXAMPLE CODE IN THE DOCUMENTATION
<wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> I mean, if there's a reason, I'm all for hearing it
<snap-l> but this is just ridiculous
<wolfger> person is a perl coder using Java for reasons beyond their control?
<snap-l> That can be fixed with education
<wolfger> I mean, there's perl modules to handle XML and HTML in refined ways... but for the single-purpose scripts I was writing, learning to use those tools seemed kind of like a waste of time. :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: It also depends on the level of control, yes.
<snap-l> if you need to carefully craft a stanza, I get that
<snap-l> but then again, that's a reason. ;)
<rick_h__> http://www.webkit.org/blog/1620/webkit-remote-debugging/ and the web always wins, hell yea
<snap-l> wow
<snap-l> I have to say, webkit keeps impressing me
<wolfger> cool
<PainBank> yo, anyone have suggestions for an IT Help Desk ticket system?
<PainBank> rick_h__: saw your post about the Review Board.  we are starting to use it at my work.. any suggestions?
<greg-g> I dislike Footprints (windows server only, I believe)
<jjesse> i used request tracker a long time ago
<jjesse> almost 5 years ago
<rick_h__> PainBank: we just went with redmine, but that's more for software side vs help desk
<rick_h__> PainBank: and jealous with your reviewboard install
<rick_h__> I'm dreaming of getting it in use at work
<PainBank> rick_h__: ya we have redmine going to, but I was looking for something a bit more non-software friendly.
<rick_h__> yea, that's what I figured. I don't have a good one for you
<rick_h__> there's a bunch of paid ones that are supposed to be nice, but we'd never fork over the $$
<PainBank> rick_h__: don't worry, the manager desires certain features, which are not there.... thinking...
<PainBank> rick_h__: I know someone that we could pay to implement these for us... :D
<PainBank> ya, the code review software is mucho $$ that is out there right now.
<PainBank> found this link for help desk: http://www.opensourcehelpdesklist.com/
<PainBank> looks like a lot fit the bill, butjust figuring out which one is nice...
<PainBank> meh, could just go with it. :0
<rick_h__> http://www.zendesk.com/ is supposed to be ok
<rick_h__> I've not used a single oss package that would make good end user support except maybe RT if you can keep it to email
<PainBank> thanks
<snap-l> So the reason that they're concatenating XML is because they ran into a problem with the JAX-WS libraries under Weblogic
<snap-l> which would lead me to think that maybe the problem is with weblogic. :)
<snap-l> but hey, what would I know.
<brousch> android dev is pretty fun with phonegap
<ColonelPanic001> STFU
 * ColonelPanic001 says, as he gets pissed off at RhoMobile
<snap-l> No development should be fun
<ColonelPanic001> Don't rub it in.
<snap-l> It's all sadness and tears
<ColonelPanic001> it is.
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: html and javascript
<brousch> and i kind of like eclipse, so even that doesn't bother me
<wolfger> brousch: html and javascript written entirely in notepad
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, RhoMobile is all Ruby/HTML/Javascript
<ColonelPanic001> when it works
<brousch> wolfger: eh?
<brousch> you can use whatever editor you want to
<wolfger> no, for maximum "sadness and tears" it needs to be Notepad.
<wolfger> Or actually Wordpad. That's worse.
<PainBank> now you tell me
<snap-l> edit.exe. ;)
<snap-l> That's a real programmer's editor
<PainBank> haha, nice
<wolfger> ok, let's bring it back to the realm of Linux.... you must code in red
<wolfger> XD
<snap-l> The coder in red.... is compiling for me
<wolfger> byte to byte
<snap-l> wolfger: You get a gold star for catching that reference. :)
<wolfger> there's no errros here.... it's just running right
<wolfger> gah.  s/errros/errors/
<wolfger> now isn't that ironic. Don'tcha think?
<wolfger> It's like Pai-ai-ain, in your Baa-aa-ank
<binbrain> the following error appears 100+ times in a systems dmesg.... "Err;Fc.ToDs". Someone needs a medal for ultimate error message
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> we can guess, right?
<_stink_> Error; Feral cat. Teeth of Destructions
<binbrain> that was my 2nd guess
<wolfger> binbrain: http://linux.sourcearchive.com/documentation/2.6.28-9.31/cmm__data__2870_8c-source.html
<wolfger> though I like _stink_'s explantion better
<wolfger>  // Drop ToDs promiscous frame, it is opened due to CCX 2 channel load statistics
<binbrain> wolfger: I was hoping that wasn't the device messing up
<binbrain> bah
<binbrain> err, driver likely
<wolfger> great thing about FOSS... got an obscure error message? Google it and fight the code that generated it. :-)
<wolfger> s/fight/find/  geez... time for me to go home
<wolfger> well, you can fight the code that generated it, too... submit a patch for a more meaningful error message. :-p
<binbrain> wolfger: that was so a Freudian slip
<snap-l> I'mm be very happy when iOS has OTA updating
<snap-l> Anyone know of a good source of 3GP video?
<snap-l> Checked archive.org, but came up a bit short
<snap-l> n/m, found some
<snap-l> Also learned some things that can't be unlearned. Thanks, archive.org!
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h__> http://digitizor.com/2011/05/09/mark-shuttleworth-ubuntu/
<rick_h__> and Mark makes sure I don't install ubuntu this week
<rick_h__> thanks Mark, appreciate it
<jjesse> let see some real numbers on how many users of ubuntu are and then we can set some goals ;)
<snap-l> Yeah, I love how veryone glommed on to the Unity part of the equation
<snap-l> "Well, if you want 200M users, you need to start by stroking my ego of what a desktop should be"
<rick_h__> I'm just cranky at the whole "we're not trying to win over developers" crap
<rick_h__> every OS out there knows they need and caters to developers
<snap-l> Developers are a fickle breed
<rick_h__> and here you've got canonical going "psh, we'll test/dev/do it our selves"
<snap-l> users are an easier target
<snap-l> Developers do what they're told. ;)
<snap-l> I <3 proving folks wrong.
<snap-l> Got a note that our product doesn't support certain attachmens
<snap-l> And I've created a bundle that has proven that this is not true
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-10
<greg-g> I usually agree with @drchuck (great prof at my school), but his last tweets about git/hg/bzr(by association) are just crazy: https://twitter.com/#!/drchuck
<rick_h__> greg-g: I think the proper answer is "The open source world would like to strongly disagree"
<rick_h__> or better "is very glad you're not kind for any days"
<greg-g> :)
<Blazeix> I like @trek's reply to the king tweet.
<greg-g> Blazeix: yep :)
<snap-l> Fall of the roman empire? seriously?
<_stink_> i just wish he'd explain wtf he means.
<snap-l> There's always a canonical place for the source in git / hg
<snap-l> I like to think of it as having more than one point of failure
<snap-l> try coding without Internet with SVN
<snap-l> can't be done.
<snap-l> Not unless you want to make one giant check-in afterwards
<jjesse> what's the topic tonight?
<rick_h__> bookie 0.2!
<jjesse> sounds like fun
<snap-l> Meh, I'm waiting for 0.3
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> Man, I hate Bank of Americ
<snap-l> a
<snap-l> They've called me repeatedly to try and sell me identity theft insurance
<snap-l> once per day
<snap-l> told them to please lose my number
<rick_h__> any RT <3 greatly appreciated: https://twitter.com/#!/BookieBmarks/status/67750341474648065
<TeamXlink> /join #bookie
<snap-l> retweeted
<snap-l> Recycled
<rick_h__> ty
<TeamXlink> Quick question I've been wondering about.
<TeamXlink> Has anyone heard or been too Cherry Valley Pizzeria?
<rick_h__> nope
<TeamXlink> It isn't in business as of earlier january, but I'm curious of how many people have heard of it.
<snap-l> First I'm hearing of it
<TeamXlink> Alright, well thank you guys.
<snap-l> I love this
<snap-l> The guys that were having trouble with sending MMS to a handset were just using application/octet-stream as the MIME type, and expected it to work.
<snap-l> s/expected/expecting/
<rick_h__> snap-l saves the day! and curses a moron
<snap-l> Seriously, we've geen going around on this for _weeks_
<rick_h__> oh, that guys?
<rick_h__> /guys/guy/
<snap-l> And I finally roll up my sleeves and do some testing (after getting the filetypes that need to be tested) and prove that things are working just fine
<snap-l> I don't think I've mentioned this in channel
<snap-l> They did their own testing on Friday.
<snap-l> and only a few things were getting sent to the phone
<snap-l> And of couse I'm able to send pretty much what I want to my phone
<snap-l> I owe it all to Python as well
<snap-l> made it pretty easy to get this sorted.
<Blazeix> microsoft is buying skype:     <style type="text/css"></style>
<Blazeix> er, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730804576313932659388852.html
<snap-l> Blazeix: Yeah, just saw that
<snap-l> And the internet just shat itself
<snap-l> I'm taking a wait and see approach, but if it pans out, it means that I'll be 100% on Google Voice / WOW!
<snap-l> And I'll need to find another way to hande Skype interviews
<snap-l> http://kara.allthingsd.com/20110509/microsoft-will-announce-acquistion-of-skype-tomorrow-morning/
<snap-l> Fuck
<wolfger> somebody in here was interested in MeeGo? Nixternal? http://www.ics.com/company/news/meego_conf_sf/
<rick_h__> snap-l: looks like we'd better find something else to do lococast with vs skype
<rick_h__> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/05/wsj-microsoft-to-buy-skype-for-7bn-rest-of-world-for-real.ars
<greg-g> maybe there will actually be some wide spread adoption of mumble
<rick_h__> I might need to get a mixer and some extra audio equip for the office
<rick_h__> there's no way skype lives on linux being MS owned
<rick_h__> not that we were back seat anyway, but still
<brousch> apple's already ahead of it, with facetime
<brousch> i expect a renewed interest in ekiga
<rick_h__> yea, but skype has hit mainstream with non-apple users
<brousch> good point
<brousch> no one will want to install a flaky open source webcam chat thing just to talk to their dorky friend/kid
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, I've been thinking about it all night
<wolfger> omfg. The Siemens dude just compared "statement list" to Visual Basic.
<wolfger> ...he also said the address was the comment (because symbolic addressing was used) and the comment was the address (because somebody typed the non-symbolic address into the comment)
<wolfger> why am I here to "learn" Siemens software from this guy?
<tjagoda> greg-g: Mumble should not replace skype
<tjagoda> They are diffrent tools for different situations
<tjagoda> Mumble should be compared to TeamSpeak or Ventrillo
<rick_h__> yea, thankfully video is coming to android google talk
<rick_h__> so there will be that on mobile and web
<Milyardo_> I hope for a protocol to come to replace SIP that gains wipe adoption
<Milyardo_> dunno if extensions to XMPP is the way to go like with Google Talk, but I wouldn't be against it if done right
<tjagoda> For consumer use I'd agree with rick
<tjagoda> google's the way to go
<tjagoda> Average Joe should not be expected to worry about VOIP signaling protocols =(
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/73100654
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> sorry, that was mainly at the second part
<snap-l> Yeah, that was the intention. :)
<tjagoda> lol
<wolfger> money-making idea: WOM chips (write-only memory). Super cheap to produce. Just need to convince people they want/need WOM
<snap-l> remember WORM drives? (Write Once, Read Many)? Someone came up with the WORN drive. (Write Once, Read Never)
<brousch> i already have plenty of WOM in /dev/null
<wolfger> brousch: you need more. You should buy it from me.
<jrwren> memcached is the new WOM
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> http://ihnatko.com/2011/05/10/microsoft-buys-skype-for-8-5-billion/ <- I <3 Ihnatko's writing
<greg-g> python people, I was looking for a good template for the file header and came across this:http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1523427/python-what-is-the-common-header-format, I've never seen the __author__, __etc__ stuff. common?
<snap-l> I've not seen anything like that
<snap-l> At least not that I've noticed
<greg-g> yeah
<snap-l> now that I'm aware of it, I'll probably notice it everywhere. ;)
<greg-g> I found this though: http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-fields.html#module-metadata-variables
<greg-g> anyways, not that important, moving on to write the next helper script
<Milyardo> I think I've see that before
<Milyardo> in OpenERP
<greg-g> ah, cool
<Milyardo> Didn't think it was a common Python convention though, it was the only place I've seen it before
<Milyardo> Like I don't I've even seen it used when I playing around with Pylons a while back
<snap-l> I have this feeling that it's something that's nice to have, and most would agree that it's nice to have
<snap-l> and that I enjoy being repetitive
<Milyardo> WHat source generated documentation tools are there anyways for python?
<Milyardo> besides doxygen I guess
<Milyardo> is there like a pydoc analog to javadoc?
<snap-l> Sphinx?
<Milyardo> Sphix? Isn't that a search engine?
<snap-l> http://sphinx.pocoo.org/contents.html
<snap-l> It's an unfortunate name clash
<Milyardo> Ahhh
<jrwren> ninkendo_: you work for apple now?
<Milyardo> snap-l: I don't see a section about sphinx reading metadata like greg-g's link
<snap-l> Right, I'm not sure if anything uses that
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/sIB/
<greg-g> jrwren: whoa, ninkendo_ at apple? where did you see this?
<greg-g> snap-l: LOL
<snap-l> greg-g: Thought you'd get a kick out of that. :)
<snap-l> Holy shit, this meeting is 1 1/2 hours
<snap-l> (*blah blah blah*)
<rick_h__> greg-g: no, that's not common
<rick_h__> basically taking advantage of the fact that any .py file is a module
<rick_h__> and allowing you to do stuff like
<rick_h__> mylib.__author__
<rick_h__> and epydoc has it's own format, but most people these days are using sphinx and restructured text
<rick_h__> so more often see things like :author: RIck
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> rumor i heard.
<greg-g> yay, debugged and got running a complex python script (started on Thursday, didn't look at all weekend/yesterday), and wrote another (simplier) one that is doing its thing now, too
<greg-g> read "complex" as "complex for greg-g"
<rick_h__> awesome
<rick_h__> python ftw
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Seems the theme of the week is "Python rocks"
<wolfger> So with Skype being purchased by MS, is it kosher to say Microsoft writes Linux-compatible software? ;-)
<rick_h__> for about 48hrs
<snap-l> Apparently the natives are restless by my house
<snap-l> There's a group of kids that appear to be visiting the urban farm across the street
<Milyardo> Microsoft already has written plenty of software for Linux
<Milyardo> even kernel modules
<greg-g> 'tis true
<greg-g> they've done GPL
<rick_h__> right, but what consumer product do they have on linux?
<rick_h__> I can't think of any, but admit I don't track it
<rick_h__> I'll feel better if there's something they do that runs on linux
<snap-l> We'll know more in the coming weeks
<snap-l> Personally I'm sub-optimistic
<rick_h__> yea, I'm ready to find alternatives for sure
<rick_h__> I've been liking google voice in gmail
<rick_h__> so now I have a reason to use google's stuff more
<snap-l> Yeah, Google Voice is nice
<wolfger> snap-l: "sub-optimistic"?  I like it.
<rick_h__> mmmm, google io
<rick_h__> I'll have to try to go to this thing one day
<snap-l> Well, if the first order of business is to kill off Linux clients, then I'll be nerd-enraged
<Blazeix> best case scenario, they open up the protocol. worst case, they make a change to the protocol and don't update the linux client.
<Milyardo> that'd be interesting, for skype;s protocol to become a .NET library
<Milyardo> though I'm pretty sure they bought skype for the brand, not the technology
<snap-l> Milyardo: I could see them integrating it into XBox and PC
<snap-l> and licensing it out
<Milyardo> snap-l: As a component of live.com?
<snap-l> Music beta by Google
<snap-l> Milyardo: Pissibly.
<snap-l> Er, possibly.
<snap-l> OK, Ubuntu Cloud streaming needs to not be subscription, starting now. :)
<Milyardo> ha, if they do then Skype is doomed for eventual irrelevence then
<Milyardo> just like the rest of Windows LIve
<snap-l> Wow, I think I found a bug in the music player
<snap-l> Most of the music is "Unknown Artists / Unknown Album"
<jrwren> ------------------------------------------------------------
<jrwren> 12:03   wolfger| So with Skype being purchased by MS, is it kosher to say Microsoft writes Linux-compatible software? ;-)
<jrwren> dont forget the hyper v kernel patch
<snap-l> Oooh, very mice
<snap-l> nice, even
<rick_h__> awesome, arduino board for talking to google apps
<snap-l> Android Accessories are Arduino-based
<rick_h__> well for android
<greg-g> lol http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/jstrap/gmail/signature?20388
<rick_h__> alert alert!
<Blazeix> alerts are javascript. For shame, rick_h__.
<rick_h__> ahhh
<wolfger> FSF just likes to piss on everybody, don't they?
<snap-l> Oh FFS
 * snap-l is copying all of my Amazon purchased music to Ubuntu One
<greg-g> brousch loves those hotdogs
<brousch> ohyeah
<brousch> also it's a little local place and i don't want it to die ;)
<brousch> like my thai restaurant did
<binbrain> greg-g: thanks for the link to the FSF announcement, I updated my Gmail email signature
<binbrain> I can't tell if people know I'm kidding, never mind
<binbrain> rick_h__: if you haven't already read this http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide some good tips
<rick_h__> binbrain: yea, some things to check out
<rick_h__> most of it I have or an alternate to
<rick_h__> nose vs pytest and such
<greg-g> heh, that's the second time someone in here has linked that article to rick_h__
<greg-g> (at least that I've seen)
<rick_h__> Yea, I'm known for my quirks :)
<greg-g> :)
<binbrain> rick_h__: I didn't know about gundo or snipmate
<binbrain> I actually wrote some stuff to do what snipmate does
<rick_h__> Yea, I've been using snipmate for a while
<rick_h__> handy for some things
<rick_h__> I have dmp as a shortcut
<rick_h__> in a JS file it does console.log()
<rick_h__> in python LOG.debug()
<rick_h__> in PHP it does a print_r()
<rick_h__> nice to have one command that maps to the right language at hand
<rick_h__> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/custom_snippets/python-custom.snippets
<brousch> in PHwhaaaaaaaaa?
<greg-g> I more like "snippet ass"
<rick_h__> :)
<rick_h__> I know, poor taste, but dammit it makes sense
<greg-g> haha, I know
<rick_h__> bah, hate when bosses make bad design choices
<binbrain> that's what they're there for rick_h__
<rick_h__> it's so hard to argue those things
<rick_h__> they're 'touchy feely' kind of things that just feel wrong
<rick_h__> but this one time...at band camp...I wanted this data in the table so make it always visible kthx
<binbrain> I've been pretty lucky with my bosses actually though
<binbrain> its always the upper uppers that have no idea that make the bad decisions
<rick_h__> I'm trying to beat the term 'USE CASE' into the heads of people
<rick_h__> if there's not a use case it doesn't exist
<snap-l> Had a boss mention on the conference call that we don't do things just because they're cool
<snap-l> There has to be a reason to do it
<brousch> being cool _is_ a reason
<brousch> it may not be a good one
<snap-l> It's not enough
<rick_h__> sigh, so suddenly work figured out how a queue works
<rick_h__> "but when we add new stuff it has to wait for all the rest to go through!"
<rick_h__> umm yep...that's a queue
<rick_h__> "but we want everyone to run at the same time"
<snap-l> rick_h__: Congratulations on knowing what you'll be working your entire infrastructure around. ;)
<rick_h__> well...that should have come up about a year ago, thanks for trying
<brousch> to the cloud!
<rick_h__> yea, the whole thing is built around this queue, high speed, able to process like a banshee
<rick_h__> but suddenly they realized someone can lock it up for 3-4 hrs
<rick_h__> yep...true
<rick_h__> and the problem is???
<rick_h__> "well they want to see some go out" *sigh*
<snap-l> Which is why you have multiple workers
<snap-l> so something isn't bunging up the queue
<rick_h__> yea, the thing is that there's no time sensitivity to it
<rick_h__> it's not like a 3 or 4 hr delay hurts them
<rick_h__> it's all mental
<rick_h__> "The old system we could fire up more instances and they'd run side by side"
<snap-l> Right, because they're thinking of it like a shopping line
<rick_h__> well, this aint the old system
<rick_h__> and it's 4-6x faster
<rick_h__> so rather than taking 20 hrs to run them all side by side, they all get done in 5 hrs
<snap-l> So it's the difference between checking out at Meijer vs. Checking out at Meijer
<rick_h__> just your stuff runs in hour 4-5
<snap-l> s/Meijer/Wal*Mart/
<snap-l> When I check out at Meijer, I'm happy
<rick_h__> ugh, come on MUG, I need some geek fun
<snap-l> when I check out at Wal*Mart, I want to kill someone.
<rick_h__> so my system is walmart?
<rick_h__> :(
<snap-l> No, I mean the new system is Meijer
<snap-l> and the old system is Wal*Mart.
<greg-g> wal-mart has many check-out lines while meijer has only one?
 * greg-g is confused
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h__> so am I
<brousch> my meijer has a lot of self-service lines
<snap-l> Well, hell.
<brousch> is that like downloading the job to my laptop and running it there?
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h__> there you go
 * brousch hugs snap-l
<greg-g> brousch: autonomous computing approved by the FSF
<rick_h__> distributed service
<snap-l> My experience with Wal*Mart is no matter how many queues there are, they all suck
<rick_h__> lol, go greg-g "own your data, the server will give you back your unit of work and ask you to do it yourself"
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> Isn't that what we do all day?
<snap-l> I think it's all just an illusion
<snap-l> The world is being powered by our little pieces of work
<jrwren> anyone run Windows Server 2008 (or R2) on EC2? can you tell me what Control Panel->System And Security-> System shows under the Processor field?
<rick_h__> we've got an instance we run when needed, but not sure what is says there
<brousch> whoa, i found a python job i'm qualified for! "Part-time Django web developer & Excel support. 3-4 days / month developing web-based database application, as well as manipulation of complex Excel spreadsheets. Approx 3-4 days/month"
<rick_h__> 3-4/mo?
<brousch> part time django and excel!
<jrwren> quote 'em $2000 for that :)
<Milyardo> Any know hot to get Apache to change it uid to the user to authticates for a request?
<Milyardo> I have a CGI script who's permissions I want to limit based on the user who authenticates
<Milyardo> file system permissions to be specifixc
<snap-l> Milyardo: Sounds like you'd need a plugin to make that happen
<snap-l> though which plugin I have NFC
<Milyardo> snap-l: I think its a apache module yeah, but I don't remeber the name, I know that webdav mod has it as a depedency
<snap-l> I'm not sure what web-dav does, personally
<snap-l> I had limited exposure to a working instance of it, and even that was too much
<rick_h__> stick it on a queue, root reads off the queue and su's to the person required :)
<snap-l> Yeah, that may be a better approach
<snap-l> that way you're not trying to munge the running process
<jrwren> Milyardo: I've never seen it done successfully outside of suexec.
<jrwren> i like rick_h__ approach too
<Milyardo> Apache already forks a new process when executing CGI's right? Doesn't seem like it would be too diffcult to setuid it to the right user based on who authenticaed
<snap-l> Milyardo: That also assumes you're running Apache as root
<snap-l> which is generally a bad idea
<snap-l> iirc, only root can do that
<greg-g> brousch: and after the last couple days, I'm half-qualified (python-excel manipulation)
<greg-g> there's supposed to be a few sarcastic exclamation points there !!!!!
<rick_h__> Milyardo: once apache starts it drops root to the www-data user on most machines (forget what RH users drop to)
<rick_h__> and runs from there as the web user
<jrwren> suexec does exactly that, but based on file owner not as authenticaed user.
<rick_h__> with the limited permissions
<jrwren> Milyardo: I'd write a separate service that handles the perms, run that service, then let me web front end talk to the security service.
<Milyardo> rick_h__: Thats what I thought, and was jsut double checking that
<snap-l> I tihnk RH uses apache
<rick_h__> yea, and the thing that runs the service, lock it down like a #@$%#@$%#@
<snap-l> (as the user)
<rick_h__> with no outside access, limited bin access, etc
<snap-l> I'd recommend using chroots
<snap-l> We used FUSE at Sourceforge
<snap-l> (as well)
<jrwren> yes to all of the above. :)
<snap-l> http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourceforge/files/project-perms/
<snap-l> htat's got the mods for fuse that SF used
<Milyardo> Well the application I'm trying to change the uid of is gitweb, I was hoping to be able to have apache do the setuid so the authenicated user wouldn't be able to view git repo's they don't have the file permissions to read
<snap-l> Wouldn't gitorious handle that?
<rick_h__> Milyardo: check out golite
<rick_h__> sorry, that's for gitosis
<snap-l> Bah, gitosis
<Milyardo> Gitorious uses different SSH keys to differ users, the process still runs all as the same suer
<Milyardo> err yeah gitosis
<snap-l> I don't know why my brain is wired to use gitorious as a synonym for gitosis
<snap-l> Milyardo: Check into the project auth foo on SF.net
<Milyardo> rick_h__: not finding anything relevent when I google golite
<snap-l> seriously, they did something very much like that
<rick_h__> https://github.com/sitaramc/gitolite
<rick_h__> sorry, that's the link
<rick_h__> easy to sync gitweb (http) authorisation with gitolite's access config
<rick_h__> that's what you want
<Milyardo> Well I did see that Sun had a mod_user that does exactly what I'm looking for
<Milyardo> but their apache mod seems to only build on Solaris and Sun OS
<snap-l> Milyardo: thing is, if you decouple the web server from the piece that's doing the work, you won't have to worry as much when someone compromises the web server
<rick_h__> or go redmine and lock down the projects per user while enabling the repository browsing
<snap-l> Milyardo: What are you worried will get out to someone without proper auth?
<Milyardo> snap-l: Nothing really, just more a convience thing, wanted users to be able to browse thier private repositories
<Milyardo> I could use mod_user_dir
<Milyardo> that changes the uid
<rick_h__> not using gitosis for the server side already?
<jrwren> different from mod_userdir?
<Milyardo> Nope, this is purely for broswsing which is why I didn't think gitosis was appropriate
<snap-l> Oh hell no
<snap-l> Use gitosis
<snap-l> seriously. It's hand-to-glove if you have a centralized server.
<rick_h__> well how are the git repos accessed now?
<rick_h__> just via ssh under a shared account or something?
<Milyardo> well each user a a folder called public in their home directory which is readable by www-data
<Milyardo> any repository in public appears in gitweb
<Milyardo> They push and pull to the directories with ssh, and only use gitweb for browsing
<rick_h__> https://twitter.com/#!/tarek_ziade/status/68025021645332480
<rick_h__> this is why I follow twitter, it makes me smile sometimes
<snap-l> rick_h__: heh
<brousch> awesome. i have an android app that brings up a google map and custom marker that follows my gps location
<brousch> phonegap ftw
<rick_h__> cool?
<rick_h__> lol, my consulting fee is only $1,000,000
<snap-l> That's awesome.
 * rick_h__ points pinky to lips
<brousch> one more thing to do and this app will be usable for something
<snap-l> now we know where to DDOS to knock greg-g offline. ;)
<brousch> make sad?
<greg-g> dang cloak not being there!
<snap-l> muhahahaha
<greg-g> yeah, a shared colo box
<brousch> oh man, that's beautiful. google pretty much did the work for me
<snap-l> Hey, now we're cooking with gas on the Java front
<rick_h__> FIRE FIRE!!!
<snap-l> Exception in thread "main" com.sun.xml.ws.wsdl.parser.InaccessibleWSDLException: 2 counts of InaccessibleWSDLException.
<snap-l> I think I'm going to need to go to the store to get some more buckes of cocks for JAva to choke on.
<rick_h__> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/05/app-engine-150-release.html
<snap-l> People still use Google App Engine?
<brousch> i do!
<rick_h__> now you can use Go
<snap-l> Just seemed liek it was the new hotness until Amazon EC2
<brousch> or i could use python!
<snap-l> and then it just fizzled
<snap-l> PainBank1: thanks for telling me about Ohloh. ;)
<rick_h__> huh?
<snap-l> He sent me a note to claim my Busy Busy Bugs source
<PainBank> hehe
<PainBank> glad you liked it.
<PainBank> not that I am stalking you... :)
<PainBank> snap-l: I saw that site a long time ago and thought it was cool, so I signed up for it just as a reminder of cool FLOSS apps I come across...
<PainBank> then saw it today and for whatever reason saw your name on there or did a search, forget which... but it had you tracked as an OSS dev having committed code.
<PainBank> it is sort of like an idea I had how cool it would be to show off how much code you have committed in the past to OSS.
<PainBank> ugh
<snap-l> PainBank: Yeah, I'm familiar with ohloh
<snap-l> used to be owned by geeknet. ;)
<rick_h__> did we ever hear why they bought them?
<snap-l> stupidity
<PainBank> hehe
<PainBank> it's a cool concept.
<snap-l> The CEO later regarded it as a pretty dumb move
<PainBank> geeknet ceo?
<snap-l> yeah
<snap-l> It really didn't make much sense, overall
<PainBank> is there not way for that site to make money, is that it?
<snap-l> I think it was a question of what exactly were we going to do with it
<snap-l> I mean, there's interesting data, but not really useful data.
<snap-l> Is it any secret that Mozilla receives a lot of commits?
<snap-l> It didn't enhance search any
<greg-g> "the page of Greg" http://www.lib.umich.edu/copyright/copyright-office-outreach-presentations-and-events
<rick_h__> wow, nice schedule you have there
<rick_h__> FL eh?
 * rick_h__ gets the big suitcase he fits into
<snap-l> I think there was some thought that maybe there would be some overlap of technology
<rick_h__> you might get charged a bit extra for this bag
<greg-g> rick_h__: :)
<snap-l> but in the end, it wasn't anything seful.
<snap-l> useful, even
<PainBank> hmm.
<PainBank> meh... cool
<snap-l> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/nintendo3ds
<snap-l> OK, normally I think this sort of thing is childish, but a small part of me thinks this might be effective.
<PainBank> I think the link says it all.
<snap-l> As long as it doesn't get out of hand
<snap-l> Oh this is precious:
<snap-l>  I will send payment by check, non-PayPal credit card, or bitcoin (instructions will appear on the confirmation page).
<greg-g> yeah, they're accepting bitcoin :)
<snap-l> I'm not familiar with how bitcoin works
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001 just got a bitcoin tutorial from a friend of ours
<_stink_> ask him
<_stink_> or just ask chris200x9
<PainBank> I'll sell you some bits
<snap-l> Um, it's an economy of signed keys
<PainBank> damn
<ColonelPanic001> they make magic dollars
<snap-l> Curious how one would turn a bitcoin into real money
<ColonelPanic001> or something
<ColonelPanic001> you sell them to people that would buy them
<snap-l> Yeah, the principles behind it are like selling confederate money
<PainBank> haha put googlie eyes on em!
<ColonelPanic001> chris200x9 will buy up all the bit coins you could want to sell.
<chris200x9> snap-l, mtgox.com
<_stink_> yeah
<chris200x9> or #bitcoin-otc
<_stink_> that URL is awesome.
<chris200x9> at last check they were going for $5
<snap-l> This is insanely more complicated than Paypal. ;)
<chris200x9> not really
<chris200x9> you can start by
<chris200x9> mybitcoin.com
<rick_h__> greg-g: what happened with all that job stuff?
<chris200x9> it's a web based wallet if you don't want to download anything
<snap-l> At some point, someone has to get access to some real $$ in order to pay me
<snap-l> so I need to give them a credit card or something
<_stink_> it's just like federal reserve notes!
<chris200x9> they can transfer paypal
<chris200x9> or
<_stink_> backed by the full faith and credit of the internets
<chris200x9> check out ubitex.org i think is the url
<chris200x9> for in person cash deals
<chris200x9> with people in the area
<snap-l> I mean, I'm intrigued and repulsed at the same time
<ColonelPanic001> same
<chris200x9> why are you repulsed?
<snap-l> chris200x9: Natural reaction to different ways of spending money
<snap-l> I got this way with credit cards back in the 1990s
<snap-l> (on the internet)
<snap-l> Just different
<snap-l> I think this is a very interesting concept, but it's a different (more raw) way of thinking about commerce
<chris200x9> no transaction fees!
<chris200x9> but brb
<snap-l> Ah, interesting. nanotube is an op on the bitcoin-otc channel
<snap-l> He's a regular on the sourceforge channel
<snap-l> Very interesting. I'll need to do some more research
<rick_h__>  there was a podcast episode about it, think I happened to run across a security now episode on bitcoin
<rick_h__> http://twit.tv/sn287 snap-l
<snap-l> rick_h__: Thanks!
<ColonelPanic001> Linux needs more/better screensavers
<rick_h__> what's a screensaver?
<rick_h__> and why do we need one?
<ColonelPanic001> it's what I use to make things pretty on my desk while I go take a leak
<PainBank> to save boob-tubes or just boobs
<rick_h__> I thought that's what the black power save mode was for?
<PainBank> hmm... a screensaver image is coming to mind
<ColonelPanic001> no way. Saving power is secondary to making my monitors look neat
<PainBank> rick_h__: are you canadian?
<rick_h__> PainBank: nope
<PainBank> oh, well, get with the program.  ColonelPanic001 is on it!
<Milyardo> I have a pretty awesome screensaver, its called World of Warcraft
<waldo323> running under wine?
<Blazeix> hm, is anti-screensaver sentiment a canadian trait?
<rick_h__> guess so Blazeix, I've let my red-blooded americans down :(
<rick_h__> are there places to kill time by new MUG?
<snap-l> Well, I'm anti-screensaver
<rick_h__> thinking I want to get out of the office, ugh
<rick_h__> looks like a biggby down the street, maybe I'll try that
<waldo323> mug tonight?
<snap-l> yep
<waldo323> really
<waldo323> will it be any good
<rick_h__> probably not, first one I'm going to this year so the building will set fire or something :P
<snap-l> Of course
<snap-l> I'll be presenting
<rick_h__> or that
<snap-l> and rick_h__ will unveil the covers of Bookie
<snap-l> so if you want to get under the covers, come to MUG
<rick_h__> now you're just setting up for disappointment
<waldo323> heading out
<waldo323> see you at mug
<rick_h__> what time does it open up?
<waldo323> 6 I assume
<waldo323> but i haven't been able to get there that early yet
<rick_h__> gotcha
<snap-l> Me either
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-11
<rick_h__> really?
<rick_h__> ugh
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h__> oh no, rj-45?! holy crap!
<snap-l> heh
<waldo323> hungry?
<snap-l> Was there a brazillian beef at Penguicon?
<snap-l> because I can't for the life of me figure out WTF Brad is talking about
<rick_h__> shoot...me...now
<rick_h__> waldo323: I hold you responsible for this as well
<Blazeix> snap-l: lol, were you paying attention?
<Blazeix> "where the hell is settings?" "go, here, under the power menu"
<waldo323> snap-l, there wasn't brazillian beef and brad wasn't even there
<waldo323> which thing rick_h__
<snap-l> waldo323: Yeah, that's what I thought
<snap-l> Blazeix: Yeah, I know
<snap-l> It's not liek I wasn't John the Baptist of the Settings Menu or anything. ;)
<snap-l> REPENT FOR THE SETTINGS MENU IS HIDDEN
<Blazeix> snap-l: you are responsible for all of unity, in my mind.
<snap-l> Thanks for that.
<rick_h__> hah, let's blame snap-l and waldo323
<rick_h__> what else can we blame them for
<snap-l> Just blame us for everything
<rick_h__> next time I'm bringing a timer
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I didn't think we needed one
<snap-l> And I'm wrong wrong wrong
<rick_h__> I present exhibit A
<snap-l> heh
<Blazeix> that was actually pretty impressive
<Blazeix> ooh, are we going to be on a projector?
<Blazeix> oh, nope. It's on #mugorg, I think
<rick_h__> ty
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> almost leaked the back channel
<Blazeix> hey look, snap-l is back.
<rick_h__> hey!
<waldo323> good evening!
<snap-l> Man, rick_h__ is making us all look like punters. ;)
<greg-g> Oh?
<snap-l> Oh yeah
<_stink_> awesome, go rick_h__!
<Blazeix> and I'm going after him :) luckily my presentation is about 2 minutes.
<_stink_> hah
<waldo323> :)
<greg-g> awesome! sorry I had to miss it
<snap-l> Yeah, it's the first time I saw everyone really impressed with the discussion
<rick_h__> lol, it's easy when you can finally show something that you're passionate about
<snap-l> Alrightie... time for sleep
<snap-l> Laterness
<brousch> oh yes, that's the shiznit. 24oz of french roast from biggby
<brousch> how'd the mug thing go last night?
<brousch> you guys are very quiet this morning. still hung over?
<rick_h__> late night zzzz
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> MUG went pretty well overall
<rick_h__> I admit it. Took the boy to day care and went back to bed for another hour
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<snap-l> aww, I'm telling
<jjesse> wow that must be nice
<jjesse> dropped the boy at day care and went to work :(
<snap-l> Also, tried Ubuntu One Music player on the iPhone
<snap-l> If it was free, I'd be a lot happier
<snap-l> Paying $3.99 a month is not worth it
<snap-l> drops songs like the iPhone drops calls
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> even on wifi?
<snap-l> On wifi it's fine
<rick_h__> k, gotcha
<snap-l> but I don't need it on wifi. ;)
 * snap-l should have left myself logged in overnight
<snap-l> I copied a bunch of music to U1, and it's still copying over.
<rick_h__> I'm missing the connection
<snap-l> It's making my network sloooooow
<snap-l> uploads = bandwidth hell
<rick_h__> oic
<snap-l> Which is why whenever folks come to offer me higher downloads, I ask if they'll offer me higher uploads as well
<snap-l> Download speeds are great, but uploads are where I really get killed
<rick_h__> yea, understand that
<rick_h__> I keep getting tempted by the next plan up on uverse because the upload caps goes up on the highest level
<rick_h__> but not until you pay the highest level and I don't use the download enough
<snap-l> I blame the 56K modem. Got us used to not having parity between download and upload. :)
<greg-g> snap-l: you know..... that isn't the craziest idea in the world
<rick_h__> dammit, NC dude getting active and ancy in IM too early this morning
<snap-l> greg-g: Which idea is getting me credit this morning?
<jjesse> the 56k modem comment
<snap-l> Ah, OK. :)
<brousch> ok, wtf is this? http://u3d.as/content/noam-gat/python-interpreter/1Qb
<brousch> bah, it's some game thing. i thought it was python in Unity desktop thing
<brousch> original names people!
<brousch> it's not that hard
<jrwren> i uploaded 80G of music to my web host once. they didn't like that much, even though they were my rips, they deleted 'em and told me no.
<jrwren> bastards.
<snap-l> Yeah, there's the Unity 3D game engine
<snap-l> jrwren: A2?
<jrwren> no
<snap-l> jrwren: I love this tweet:
<snap-l> RT @babernethy: OH: "Android everywhere?!? Isn't this what Java and Linux were supposed to do ..." -um, dude Android is Java and Linux ...
<jrwren> yeah.
<snap-l> There's no sense of history, is there?
<jrwren> nope
<rick_h__> snap-l: http://gigaom.com/2011/05/11/android-everywhere/
<brousch> rick_h__: you're giving me a geekon again
<snap-l> rick_h__: Gee, the promise of X10 in 1980 is once again being trotted out in 2011
<snap-l> "Wake up to a fresh pot of coffee in the morning with X10"
<snap-l> but yes, I think we're going to see more smart-home initiatives like this
<snap-l> especially now since it's "green"
<snap-l> though the mesh networking is very intriguing
<jrwren> i'm glad they don't talk about chromeos anymore. android is all you need.
<rick_h__> jrwren: it's coming today
<rick_h__> rumor is a $20/mo student chromeos laptop
<rick_h__> today is chrome day, second keynote
<jrwren> lame.
<jrwren> they should kill it.
<rick_h__> why?
<jrwren> there is no need for it when andoid does the same thing
<rick_h__> except it doesn't
<jrwren> it should
<rick_h__> nope
<rick_h__> :)
<jrwren> why shouldn't it?
<rick_h__> chromeos is a desktop OS. Sits on a laptop via keyboard/mouse with big screen and lots of typing
<jrwren> id ont' know waht that means.
<rick_h__> android is all about touch, media consumption, small bits of checking on stuff
<jrwren> disagree strongly.
<jrwren> bad vision.
<jrwren> if that is really their vision, they shall fail.
<snap-l> Android could easily fill the spot left by the gaping void of ChromeOS
<rick_h__> then just chalk it up as "I don't understand so I won't tell them what to do"
<snap-l> It supports a keyboard, and unless you're Gib's $40 laptop, it supports mouse
<rick_h__> you're going to give students that go into school a tablet and tell them they don't need a laptop?
<jrwren> of course not. I'm talkingabo andriod on laptop
<snap-l> rick_h__: So give them a crippled laptop?
<rick_h__> snap-l: sure, it'll work great for most of the liberal arts kids out there
<rick_h__> can do IM/chat, video conference, youtube, writing papers, etc
<snap-l> And can do that via Android as well
<rick_h__> more secure, data loss proof, and has mobile connectivity
<rick_h__> fine, dont' use macos...iOS can do it as well
<snap-l> I think we're talking past each other :)
<snap-l> Laptop form factor = A+
<snap-l> ChromeOS concept = A+
<rick_h__> Thul uses a BT keyboard with his ipad, just give up your macbook
<rick_h__> don't need it
<snap-l> Android on laptop, doing chromeOS things = A++
<jrwren> what snap-l said
<jrwren> snap-l++
<rick_h__> I don't think so. I like the separation
<jrwren> that is what i'm trying to say.
<jrwren> U-N-I-T-Y
<rick_h__> they're different use cases entirely
<jrwren> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cHxydDb7o
<rick_h__> I don't sit down with android for hours at a time
<jrwren> why not?
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, because windows on mobile devices has gone so well for them
<rick_h__> everyone's dying for that unified platform on their mobile
<rick_h__> :P
<jrwren> one pers failed attempts does not make an idea bad. see every invention ever for evidence.
<snap-l> rick_h__: Once Apple does it, everyone will do it
<snap-l> Don't think it hasn't crossed someone's mind over there. ;)
<jrwren> of course it has. when they launched macbookair they called it an ipad with a keybaord
<rick_h__> oh I know, and that's part of the macos on arm stuff is to try to help get some binary compatibility
<rick_h__> but I think when you try to build something with too different of target audiences you end up making compromises that make both suck
<snap-l> rick_h__: Oh, no doubt
<rick_h__> be it UI/UX design for the different uses, software sluggishness trying to be all to all
<snap-l> which is partially why I think ChromeOS isn't the wave it could be
<snap-l> It's a neat concept, but damn it's locked down
<rick_h__> just like I don't want linux on my phone (see every failed attempt at that)
<rick_h__> I don't want my mobile OS on my daily driver machine
<snap-l> rick_h__: Except you have Linux on your phone
<snap-l> Maybe a beter example is GNOME on the phone
<rick_h__> sorry...I don't want Gnome on my phone...
<rick_h__> or KDE, or whatever the flavor toolset of the month is for the next great handset
<snap-l> Yeah, totally agree.
<snap-l> That's partially why the Nokia 770 was interesting, but not compelling
<snap-l> Maemo was an attempt to get a desktop on a mobile device
<snap-l> And moblin / meego / mplxplytktx is also doomed if they keep the same goals.
<snap-l> And why I stand by my assertion that if you have a phone OS that has "Take screenshot" three menu levels in, you're fucked.
<rick_h__> lol
<jrwren> now you are just talking implementation details.
<jrwren> which are irrelevant.
<snap-l> No, it's a statement on how developer-centric your OS is
<snap-l> No user is going to want to take a screenshot of their device
<greg-g> rick_h__: thought you'd be interested in this: http://pythoscope.org/, found it from http://www.disneyanimation.com/technology/opensource.html
<snap-l> nice!
<snap-l> Disney has been using Python pretty extensively
<greg-g> oh, yeah, you too snap-l :)
<snap-l> Linux as well.
<rick_h__> greg-g: cool
<jrwren> they own pixar who has used renderman on linux for over a decade :)
<snap-l> right
<snap-l> Apparently my current boss' cousin was responsible for Wall-E
<snap-l> which, being an animation fan, really made me happy.
<jrwren> responsible for?
<jrwren> like lead sysadmin
<jrwren> or directed the movie?
<snap-l> Like director
<jrwren> andrew stanton?
<snap-l> a-yep
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> legend
<jrwren> ary
<snap-l> Yeah
<brousch> i hav an app to take screenshots of my phone
<snap-l> brousch: That's different
<brousch> 3 clicks and a shake
<snap-l> a) you're a developer, and b) you installed that on your phone
<snap-l> I'm not saying that taking a screenshot on a phone isn't important for developers, I'm saying that baking it into the OS means you're not focusing on the users.
<snap-l> Which, in turn, means you're fucked.
<snap-l> (mobile OS, I mean)
<greg-g> snap-l: wait, having a screenshot function is anti-user? how else do you want me to share my fancy iphone weather app information on twitter with such witty commentary as "boy is it cold out!"
<snap-l> greg-g: Personally, or for the sake of this conversation? ;)
<brousch> i've only been an android developer for a week :P
<brousch> had screenshot for a year
<snap-l> brousch: You've been a developer longer than that
<greg-g> snap-l: for the sake of the conversation. I mean, I see people sharing iphone screenshots all the time, seems to be a wanted feature
<greg-g> and by people I mean "non-developers"
<snap-l> greg-g: Point taken
<snap-l> And yes, there are times where I've wished for screenshots on the iPhone
<snap-l> It's mostly a slam on the Open Moko
<snap-l> since when I saw it, it didn't do much except make phone calls and take screenshots.
<greg-g> gotcha, I missed that reference :)
<snap-l> I blame the network. ;)
<brousch> omg people have lost their minds today
<brousch> i'm going to kick a puppy
<snap-l> brousch: What's wrong now?
<brousch> everyone has forgotten how todo things they've been doing for a decade
<snap-l> Welcome to the age of Google.
<snap-l> Idiocracy is not far behind
<brousch> yet they resist new systems
<brousch> because they would have to learn how to do it a different way
 * snap-l just shuddered at the thought of a world where the primary information resource is a SEO-ridden Google.
<brousch> half of everything i know i learned from Slashdot
<jrwren> that is frightening.
<brousch> truly
<jrwren> it means that half of everything you know is wrong.
<snap-l> Natalie Portman, petrified, with a hot bowl of grits?
<brousch> i've been trying to learn "the right way" for about 3 years
<snap-l> to petrify Natalie Portman?
<rick_h__> brousch: keep going, 3yrs means you've learned how to do it wrong 3 ways
<snap-l> I believe it starts by stuffing hot bowls of grits down your pants
<rick_h__> then you learn how to do it wrong 5 ways in 5 years
<rick_h__> and after that I think you just decide "@#$*@# it, my way is pretty damn good enough"
<brousch> i've learned a lot from better devs in here and in various user groups
<snap-l> Hi Craig,
<snap-l> We do not publish, nor indeed, create the content that is sold through Kobo. We work alongside publishers by ensuring our technical standards run parallel, but we are not experts in creating content, publishers provide us with the books they wish to sell, and the format they prefer to sell it in. The vast majority of content works without any issues, those that have errors in them, we refer back to the publisher to be resolved. We apologiz
<snap-l> Sincerely,
<snap-l> The Kobo Team
 * snap-l will post the rest in paste-bin
<brousch> SPAMMER
<snap-l> Blergh. rick's paste-bin isnt' working
<rick_h__> snap-l: loads here ?
<snap-l> It's giving me an internal server error when I paste in this text.
<rick_h__> ah, sucky
<snap-l> I'll post it later
<snap-l> Once u1 finishes syncing 8GB of music
<snap-l> Only 418 more files
<snap-l> watch "u1sdtool --waiting-content | wc -l" ;)
<rick_h__> hah
<snap-l> There's only 877 files in the directory
<snap-l> *sigh*
<snap-l> Not one of my brightest moves
<rick_h__> 50% baby!
<brousch> hah, i was going to suggest using mine, but it 500'd too
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/73195364
<snap-l> well, that's comforting
<rick_h__> heh, time to kill/wait for the weekend
<snap-l> Somehow I'm thinking I'm the one degrading the performance
<snap-l> Can't imagine anyone else using this. ;)
<greg-g> hey snap-l, do you have the Michigan Team LocoDirectory calendar loaded up in your gcal?
<snap-l> Yeah
<greg-g> the UH:CHC events appear to start at 4pm
<snap-l> on it
<snap-l> They're set for 20:00UTC
<greg-g> thanks man. I guess I could have complained to rick_h__ as well :)
<snap-l> Wow, that's annoying
<greg-g> hehe
<rick_h__> ahahahahahahahaha http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/05/11/1450208/Developer-Blames-Apple-For-Ruining-eBook-Business
<rick_h__>  "We bet everything on Apple and iOS and then Apple killed us by changing the rules in the middle of the game."
<greg-g> holy.... http://wstaw.org/m/2011/05/11/plasma-desktopgp1838.jpg
<rick_h__> greg-g: what am I missing here?
<brousch> heh, someone created a unity clone in kde?
<jjesse> hahah
<jjesse> brousch those are just customizing kde to look like unity
<jjesse> no actual code
<brousch> yeah yeah
<rick_h__> so instead of writing unity, they could have figured out the kde settings menus instead :P
<brousch> same level of complexity
<jjesse> big rumor/flameware on identi.ca today from one of the kubuntu developers whos posted a smart ass comment about kubuntu switching to unity
<jjesse> its a good converstation
<rick_h__> if re.match('/unity/'): conversation == False
<snap-l> Ah, I think I figured this out
<rick_h__> and with that, I've got to run...
<snap-l> If you put a location for the event, you can set the timezone
<snap-l> doing that makes it not have to use UTC
<greg-g> snap-l: I *thought* there was somethign like that
<greg-g> snap-l: there should be a little notice about that on the event details edit page, so you dont' have to remembe those things :)
<snap-l> Probably the same UI developers that thought the top menu was a great idea. (just saying)
<greg-g> hehe
<snap-l> in any event, there's a location for Caribou, along with a note that Google Maps is fucked.
<brousch> google maps is the bizomb
<brousch> do not speak ill of it
<ColonelPanic001> I nearly got hopelessly lost going to CHC once because of that bug
<ColonelPanic001> I had to call _stink_ and have him give me directions. I was a mile or two in the wrong direction
<greg-g> oh yeah, that issue, East vs West and such
<ColonelPanic001> I reported it on google maps, I think. That was what, a year ago or something? meh
<snap-l> I've been bit by that when I had to go to the urologist's office
<snap-l> Said their office was on the Van Dyke Espressway bridge
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: you can fix those bugs yourself now
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<ColonelPanic001> they have a bajillion dollars, they can hire someone to answer my email and fix it. :P
<brousch> http://www.google.com/mapmaker
<brousch> it's free! contribute!
<brousch> just like open source software
<snap-l> Funny enough, they have the right location when you type Caribou Coffee
<snap-l> but not when you type the address
<jjesse> i have had two changes accepted already
<rick_h__> ok, that explains it then
<rick_h__> I was going to say I've never seen this bug/issue you guys talk about
<rick_h__> but I find by name
<greg-g> sure, be slave labor
<greg-g> why not instead own the contributions you make and contribute to Open Street Map
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZlih4DDNg&feature=youtu.be
<rick_h__> ok, so not taking anyone as metal that's cutting tofu
<snap-l> It's funny
<snap-l> laugh
<snap-l> Totally subscribing to this channel
<snap-l> Hey, Qik is also going to Microsoft
<snap-l> http://www.geekwire.com/2011/confirmed-qik-part-microsoft
<rick_h__> why wouldn't it?
<snap-l> Considering eBay managed to get Skype but not the IP, I'm impressed Microsoft had enough forethought to ask. ;)
<rick_h__> lol
<snap-l> Also, I love how everyone's little GNU pet project for telephony is getting dusted off
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/h8u52/is_it_the_time_for_gnu_free_call/
<_stink_> ekiga!
<snap-l> The time for GNU Free-call was about 1 year before this announcement
<snap-l> _stink_: You should have been at MUG last night
<snap-l> I don't think anyone mentioned ekiga at all... oh, wait. Yeah, yeah they did
<snap-l> about 4 different ways.
<rick_h__> lol
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> nice
<snap-l> And they got indignant when I said that I couldn't get it to do shit
<snap-l> I think it's partially because of my firewall
<wolfger> jjesse: flameware? Is that what Slashdot runs on?
<snap-l> You might know it better as "perl"
<jrwren> pretty cool that google is saying linux is the same as windows and mac in this chrome presentation.
<jrwren> he didn't even say "oh and also linux" like i often here.
<wolfger> where? ;-)
<rick_h__> jrwren: heh, no problem here in linux on flash including to fullscreen and back
<jrwren> good for you.
<snap-l> Apparently all I need to do is set up QOS right. :)
<tjagoda> QOS?
<snap-l> Quality of Service
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> What are you trying to set it up on?
<snap-l> My router so I don't get into suckville
<tjagoda> Be careful with QoS over wifi
<tjagoda> lots of consumer routers don't do it right and it screws with Ubuntu particularly
<snap-l> Yeah, I know
<snap-l> Which is why I'm using Tomato. :)
<tjagoda> Nice
<snap-l> Let's just put it this way: I can watch The Daily Show, upload to U1, and still have the ability to ssh without having it all go to hell
<rick_h__> man as a web dev I love watching these IO things
<jrwren> yeah, its just like watching MSFTs Ie10 keynote *sigh*
<rick_h__> except it runs on multiple platforms
<rick_h__> oh, and doesn't require Win8
<snap-l> Or Silverlight
<rick_h__> oh, and is still faster/nicer (I tried IE9 the other day for a few)
<snap-l> a version that hasn't been released yet
<rick_h__> IE can just go away, I've no need to ever see it again. consider it deprecated
<snap-l> Legacy. ;)
<jrwren> is silverlight?
<jrwren> ie10 is silverligth?  I missed that. I don't think it is true.
<jrwren> i'm glad MS is doing ie9 and ie10. for many speed things, they seem to be the only ones pushing google.
<rick_h__> heh, no I think he more means MS stuff requiring silverlight
<snap-l> I meant the viewing the keynotes via silverlight
<jrwren> better than flash.
<jrwren> i'd much rather see a html5 stream, but we ain't got that.
<snap-l> Much like tying your balls to a locomotive is better than being gang-banged by a den of grizzly bears
<rick_h__> lol, chrome has arrived, has angry birds now
<greg-g> wow, I can always count on you, snap-l, for wonderful one-liners when I glance at IRC
<snap-l> greg-g: You're welcome. :)
<snap-l> That's me, aiming to please.
<wolfger> snap-l: it's better???
<rick_h__> here we go, ChromeOS video conferencing
<snap-l> greg-g: Should we remove the Ubuntu QA meeting from the group calendar? :)
<rick_h__> sweet, angry birds in chrome is cool and works in linux just peachy
<tjagoda> https://www.iflowreader.com/Closing.aspx
<tjagoda> Anybody need some reason to hate Apple? ^
<rick_h__> yea, brought that up a while ago
<rick_h__> but honestly, it's more like "YOU STUPID PEOPLE KEEP DOING IT OVER AND OVER"
<rick_h__> as people build their business on apple and then when apple taketh, act like it's never happened before and all suprised
<tjagoda> Idiots.
<tjagoda> Even Microsoft is cooler than the iBook douchbaggery.
<tjagoda> =(
<snap-l> Nice
<tjagoda> We should all send e-mails to iFlow
<tjagoda> and tell them to come to the Ubuntu software center.
<tjagoda> jcastro, get somebody from Canonical on that shit. =P
<rick_h__> nope, why go from one wall to another :P
<snap-l> rick_h__: You're so negative. ;)
<snap-l> What could be better than getting the 2 users that purchase content under Ubuntu to buy your product? :)
<rick_h__> snap-l: bitter from the banshee stuff?
<snap-l> cold, man... cold. ;)
<rick_h__> or just ack the fact that the ubuntu world is doing some linux splintering
<snap-l> NEVER!
<greg-g> snap-l: heh, sure :) (re QA meeting)
<snap-l> color it gone
<snap-l> Thanks!
<snap-l> Nuts, got outbid on a Wendy Carlos box set.
<snap-l> Her stuff goes for insane prices because most of it is OOP
<snap-l> http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/05/process-kills-developer-passion.html
<snap-l> man, I need to go to Google IO
<brousch> you can watch it online
<snap-l> Screw the talks, I want the toys.
<brousch> i would like to try a chromeos computer
<snap-l> Of course the time that I'd go, they'd likely announce the new Google Pet Rock
<brousch> or 10 more free appengine slots
<snap-l> Yeah, something like that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-12
<snap-l> Good eeevening
<snap-l> Had my first Blimpie's sub in a long time. And it'll be a long time until I go back to that bBlimpies.
<brousch> they killed off all of our blimpies
<brousch> tedxgrandrapids tomorrow
<brousch> we're down to 1 car and my wife has a kidney stone. what are the odds i actually get to go?
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> Hope she feels better soon. Been there, done that.
<snap-l> Did they put in a stent?
<brousch> no, just pain meds and flomax right now
<brousch> she has basically slept since midnight last night to now
<greg-g> I had a kidney stone once, the drive to the hostpital was the most painful thing in the world (minneapolis roads post-winter tear up and pre-summer patching)
 * brousch gets another drink of water
<snap-l> Yeah, there's nothing quite like a kidney stone
<wolfger> Morning, peeps
<wolfger> http://dvice.com/archives/2011/05/man-builds-comp.php#more
<snap-l> G'morning
<snap-l> That's pretty cool (the custom computer)
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/h9521/yesterdays_skype_blog_silverlight_required/
<wolfger> so already it's veering away from cross-platform support.... ;-p
<snap-l> I think I've figured out why I don't like Gib's use of Big Blue Button
<snap-l> Picture an air-tight container with a limited supply of oxygen
<snap-l> that is your bandwidth
<snap-l> if everyone starts breathing at the same time, you all pass out
<wolfger> ok, you hold your breath
<snap-l> Gib wants to start a yodeling competition to entertain those who might be outside
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> I mean, conceptually, it's a great idea
<snap-l> but in practice, you're already using a scarce resource
<snap-l> and overuse just kills the whole enterprise
<wolfger> well clearly the problem is the hosting site needs to provide more bandwidth
<snap-l> It's not the site
<tjagoda> He hosted it locally at penguicon
<snap-l> it's using things like hotel bandwidth to start a broadcast stream
<snap-l> It's using the ESD bandwidth to broadcast
<tjagoda> Ran it over our Cisco network at penguicon
<wolfger> *physical* site, not website
<wolfger> sorry if I was unclear :-)
<snap-l> tjagoda: Yeah, that was a decent idea in theory
<snap-l> tjagoda: Maybe if there was a back-channel network (staff, video, guest) that would be awesome
<snap-l> again, not bagging on the idea, just the implementation
<tjagoda> Thats..what there was
<tjagoda> penguicon-staff was a unique SSID which is QoS's over all you other people
<tjagoda> But we never ran out of bandwidth on the inside
<tjagoda> just the pipe into the intarwebs
<snap-l> tjagoda: Right
<snap-l> again, using scarce resources. ;)
<snap-l> also, it's not just Penguicon that Gib is broadcasting
<snap-l> I think he needs to partner with Justin.tv
<tjagoda> Unless you want to stream it outside of the hotel, in our case, we we're not scarce
<tjagoda> we were*
<snap-l> tjagoda: Bingo
<tjagoda> When he thought up and pitched the idea, he had it framed as a tool for people inside the event
<tjagoda> "Sit in one talk while watching another" kind of thing
<tjagoda> I don't think we ever gave him an external IP
<snap-l> Split attention = huge win for those who are presenting
<tjagoda> (I agree)
<tjagoda> Come to Penguicon and present really fast, because if you take to long, we're all on big blue button.
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> heh
<tjagoda> So
<tjagoda> just got around to reading the differences between 4k and 512b drives
<snap-l> Thing is, he's pitched this at just about every event he's at, so I'm talking from a MUG perspective
<snap-l> tjagoda: And, what's the conclusion?
<tjagoda> Sometimes I read these things and wonder why we didn't do this sooner
<snap-l> I had a guy argue with me that tweaking the sector size was so much better, and that 4K blocks were a waste
<snap-l> because most of his files were less than 4K
<tjagoda> It definitely makes more of an impact on sustained read/write, that's certain
<snap-l> He was a complete efficiency nut
<tjagoda> large read/write on windows 7 with 4k drives results in almost doubled thruoghput
<tjagoda> wow
<tjagoda> throughput*
<snap-l> Yeah, the benefits of speed outweigh the drawbacks of storage
<snap-l> It all depends on your application, frankly
<tjagoda> WD claims they'll fit 7-11% more on every platter!
<snap-l> if you're running a server with 100K small files, it might add up
<tjagoda> So much more room for your <4k files!
<snap-l> Heh
<tjagoda> looking at my desktop
<tjagoda> not counting icons/shortcuts
<tjagoda> the smallest file I have is 15kb
<tjagoda> With all the bloat and such that we shove into file formats and headers I'd imagine that at least 80% of what I encounter must be larger than 4kb?
<snap-l> Again, if you're working with something that's like a mail server or a news server, there's potential for lots of really small files
<tjagoda> hmm
<snap-l> but most of my files are larger than 4K
<tjagoda> Lets see if I can figure out how to see the size of my mails in outlook..
<snap-l> His contention was taht if you have a 6K file, you have 2K that's unaddressable
<snap-l> tjagoda: Outlook isn't going to work because it stores everything in a .pst file
<snap-l> and with modern quoting, even a simple reply of "thank you" takes up 20K.
<tjagoda> The headers and such of sectors are still the same in 4k?
<tjagoda> You cant bridge thigns into one sector for the efficiency hats?
<tjagoda> I do not know that much about how hard disk sectors are mapped
<snap-l> I know a little
<snap-l> Let's just say I'd rather have the head read 4K at a time than dart around trying to get 512b wherever it can
<snap-l> I don't care about losing 1-3K to make sure I get overall good throughput
<tjagoda> Truth
<tjagoda> And we're also not on the space shuttle with 32 kb total
<tjagoda> Cheap storage is cheap
 * tjagoda pets the 6TB NAS with Windows Storage Server 2k8
<tjagoda> I just got an email from corporate saying all the new Dell machines are moving to 4k advanced drives
<wolfger> This is 2 or 3 kinds of ludicrous: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/12/germany.demjanjuk.trial/index.html?hpt=T1
<wolfger> It took them 30 years to convict him? He's only getting 6 years prison for 27k+ murders?
<snap-l> And he was a POW at the time
<wolfger> yeah... I'm tempted to call that ludicrous as well, but I don't know the evidence used in court to find him guilty
<tjagoda> They seriously need to stop
<tjagoda> Most of those guards were probably victims more than they were evil jew-haters
<wolfger> agreed
<wolfger> "You will do this, or we will *ahem* replace you, and somebody else will do it."
<tjagoda> qft.
<snap-l> Well, and it's not like his conviction does anything about those who have been killed
<snap-l> Whether it's Osama, or a Ukranian POW Nazi guard
<snap-l> I'm sure someone thinks this is just
<tjagoda> It's those jewish interest groups which own all the media, snap-l.
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> riiiight
<snap-l> Blame George Soros, and you too cna be a political party. ;)
<snap-l> http://www.perlbrew.pl/<- Virtualenv hits Perl. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I should start my political party again
<tjagoda> Does it have to do with sphagetti monsters?
<tjagoda> The Party of the Holy Pastafarian?
<ColonelPanic001> nein
<ColonelPanic001> the red stapler party
<ColonelPanic001> running joke from a forum I was on
<snap-l> Nice... Just tried perlbrew, and apparently the compiler for 5.12.3 crashed on the machine that I was running it on
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: you're not a member of the Pirate Party? For shame.
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<snap-l> Anyone using mumble?
<ColonelPanic001> only when I speak
<rick_h__> I know canonical was using it for meetings/etc
<snap-l> If so, please try connecting to lister.decafbad.net
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm checking it out
<snap-l> wondering if we can use it for podcasting. :)
<rick_h__> yea, I've got on my list to look into a mixer and try to do the recording out of that vs the skype call recorder
<tjagoda> I use mumble
<tjagoda> Mostly for gaming
<tjagoda> Not so easy to set up, or in the right format to replace skype
<rick_h__> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/FAQ/English#Recording
<rick_h__> http://blog.mumble.info/for-the-record/ and that for the details looks good
<rick_h__> and a nice ppa: http://blog.mumble.info/mumble-1-2-3-released/
<Milyardo> ls
<rick_h__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKQS8EDG1P4 watch the first few min awesome
<tjagoda> I am loving ESET Smart Security so much more than Symantec Endpoint
<tjagoda> Cheaper?  Check.
<tjagoda> Better?  Check.
<tjagoda> Hogs less resources?  Check!
<snap-l> That's awesome, rick_h__
<rick_h__> wow, this python talk: youtube gets more than 35hrs of video uploaded every minute
<rick_h__> so they have to handle encoding 2100 minutes - 1
<krondor> so work just handed me a blackberry playbook to test
<rick_h__> enjoy, tjagoda can tell you all about it
<tjagoda> <3
<krondor> first impression, it's bad.. but I'm still playing maybe I will change my mind.
<tjagoda> What gave you that impression?
<tjagoda> Everybody I've handed it to is usually receptive and liking of its UI
<tjagoda> It's the mail and lack of apps that they furrow their brow upon
<krondor> tjagoda:  it doesn't work with our corporate proxy redirect, the way you exit an app once you've launched it is not obvious (but once you learn it meh).  the lack of mail and apps (as you said)
<krondor> the lack of password masking on typing (*x for shoulder surfers).
<tjagoda> Did you do the startup guide?
<tjagoda> When you turn on the playbook it very clearly and definitely tells you whats up
<tjagoda> Dunno about proxies.  Only one I've used it behind is the Troy Marriott's
<krondor> of course not because I was handed a playbook pre-started
<krondor> startup guide isn't in the list of apps either
<tjagoda> It is
<tjagoda> Its called "setup"
<tjagoda> Then "tablet basics" once you're in it
<krondor> anyway, that's not a menu choice startup guide, but that's semantics anyway.
<tjagoda> Usually it auto-launches on firstboot, so you ideally never have to go back and manually open it
<tjagoda> But you've gone all funky
<tjagoda> =P{
<tjagoda> Multitasking between stuff with side bezel swips is a breeze though
<snap-l> Well, Google voice failed 18 minutes into a conference call
<krondor> that's how most people here would be handed one I'm assuming.  That's how they're handed a BB.  A desktop tech already configures things and gives it to them.
<tjagoda> probably my favorite thing about the UI
<krondor> snap-l:  I've stopped using Google Voice for conference calls lately :(
<snap-l> Replacing Skype is going to be hard
<tjagoda> Oops
<krondor> it's webosy UI (cards for apps), some things seem slick, some are annoying.  How the hell do I go back a menu in setup?
<tjagoda> in the tablet basics thing?
<Milyardo> snap-l: Replacing skype for what purpose?
<krondor> tjagoda:  in the wifi submenu of setup
<tjagoda> There's a back button on the wifi config menus I think
<tjagoda> or it autocloses once you hit enter
<tjagoda> I can't remember which screen your in, setup was a long time ago
<krondor> don't see it, and when you configure it dumps you back into the wifi list.  I just killed the app and relaunched it.  More playing is needed.  I'm curious about the Linux underpinnings.
<tjagoda> afk, supposed to go celebrate nameless employee's 10 years of service
<_stink_> hope for cake
<snap-l> Milyardo: looking into alternatives
<Milyardo> How were you using skype before>
<Milyardo> ?
<snap-l> I'd use it to join 800-number conference calls
<Milyardo> a simple asterisk server should work then right?
<snap-l> Milyardo: Do you normally offer seeds and dirt to people who come over for dinner? :)
<Milyardo> Haha, I forget Asterisk is arcane to those who haven't configured one on a somewhat regular basis
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm just looking for something to act like a speakerphone
<snap-l> I have one, but it's nice to not have to tie up the home phone
<Milyardo> buy the hosted asterisk account then I guess, like what callcentric offers or something
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll need to do more investigation
<snap-l> I already have VOIP via WOW!, so I'm not so concerned about that
<Milyardo> So you just need a SIP client then? Good luck with that, they all suck
<snap-l> Well, I'd like one for each
<snap-l> and yes, I've tried Gizmo / Ekiga, and they're God-awful
<Milyardo> Indeed
<tjagoda> http://www.nch.com.au/talk/index.html
<tjagoda> That's pretty good
<tjagoda> ..in windows..
<snap-l> Yeah, Skype filled the niche so perfectly that replacements are few and far between
<tjagoda> http://www.sjlabs.com/sjp.html
<tjagoda> There's SJPhone as well
<snap-l> Um, no
<Milyardo> snap-l: More like VOIP is so patent incumbered that Skype is the only one who bought enough liscensing to provide a client more functional than what you'd expect from applications in 1997
<snap-l> Not getting into some bullshit multi-level marketing. :)
<tjagoda> SJPhone is not multi level?
<snap-l> tjagoda: When your website has news reviews, that's a HUGE red-flag for me
<tjagoda> Only other recommendation is X-Lite
<tjagoda> I think SJPhone is in business with MagicJack
<snap-l> http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ#My_Ekiga_account_doesn.27t_work.
<snap-l> I think I've bought more CDs in the past 2 months than I have in the past year
<wolfger> you've bought CD's?
<wolfger> do they still make CD's?
<snap-l> Yes, yes they do
<wolfger> everything now is MP3
<wolfger> so that the studios can ream you for something that costs them virtually nothing, and you don't even get to own anything after you pay them
<wolfger> Hmm. I think I need to have a sit-down with some auto execs. I have a new business model for them. "Instead of buying a vehicle, you're buying the rights to use a vehicle. Those rights are non-transferable, so if you want to drive a new vehicle, you will have to acquire new rights, and you cannot resell the old rights to somebody else."
<wolfger> It's like Lease++
<wolfger> except really Lease-- for the consumer
<wolfger> since they will have to pay the full license price
<Milyardo> You forgot the part of the lease where they arbitrarily define use and change the terms later
<wolfger> alternatively, maybe I could talk some music execs into the idea of leasing music
<Milyardo> "What's that you used public transport? Lease Terminated."
<wolfger> you pay per month per song until you no longer like the song, at which point you can buy out the remainder of your lease while we talk you into leasing a new song.
<wolfger> there's business models to be exploited here...
<wolfger> and people are getting used to not owning anything. That's the scary part. We're willingly returning to the feudal system, where only the rich and powerful actually own anything
<snap-l> Sorry, but MP3s don't sound as good as CDs
<snap-l> And don't get me started on the vinyl folks. :)
<wolfger> and CD's don't sound as good as vinyl
<wolfger> oops. too late
<Milyardo> FLAC ftw?
<snap-l> "Yeah, I'm sure my CDs sound like shit compared to your vinyl on a crosley POS turn table that sounds like you're dragging a blckboard along the record"
<wolfger> honestly, I can't tell the diff between a good MP3 and a CD. Except the MP3 never gets scratched
<snap-l> wolfger: I accept your challenge. :)
<wolfger> and CD sounds better than vinyl, until they both get scratched, at which point you can still play the vinyl with a penny weighing down the needle, but the CD is hosed.
<snap-l> wolfger: Um, no
<snap-l> Vinyl gets pops and clicks
<snap-l> Cds get minor drop-outs
<snap-l> (that is, if you have good equipment)
<wolfger> CD's get "disc not found"
<snap-l> Maybe if you didn't play shuffleboard with your CDs, this wouldn't be a problem.
<wolfger> Yes, well, I keep threatening to beat Allison for not putting CDs back in the case, but threats are not working.
<snap-l> Seriously, if you mistreated your vinyl like folks mistreat CDs, you'd never be able to play anything on it
<wolfger> possibly
<wolfger> but my point is: MP3 uber alles
<snap-l> For the walkman crowd, yes.
<snap-l> for the folks that listen to music, not quite. ;)
<snap-l> FLAC FTW
<wolfger> for any crowd
<wolfger> FLAC, MP3, same thing
<wolfger> non-physical media FTW
<snap-l> OMG, you did NOT say that. :)
<wolfger> ROFL
<wolfger> you bet your seatbelt I did.
<wolfger> I think I need to write Mythbusters a suggestion
<wolfger> and have them test the various music myths audiophiles dream up
 * snap-l is going to give you a test. ;)
<wolfger> is it multiple choice?
<krondor> that's a good mythbusters
<wolfger> krondor: they would get so many e-mails from people complaining about the results
<krondor> why did you use the x it has a y? Everyone knows that you'll get the best sound from c but only in a clean room inside a vacuum on the solstice!
<wolfger> heh
<wolfger> They will say something sounded better than something else, and a bunch of people who all listened to it via their TV speaker(s) will say "those both sounded exactly the same!"
<snap-l> OK, I'm uploading two versions of Vivaldi's Four Seasons - Springtime
<snap-l> Both came from a FLAC source, but one was mp3 encoded (VBR, quality 0)
<snap-l> same as what I use with Lococast.
<snap-l> both files were then turned back into wav files
<snap-l> I want you to tell me which file sounds better.
<wolfger> ...and if we get that on Mythbusters, maybe we can get Adam to sneak Jonothan Coultan's "Re: Your brains" into the show... XD
<wolfger> snap-l: OK, but it will have to wait til I get off work
<snap-l> no problem. I'll leave them up for as long as you want
<jrwren> snap-l: not everyone has your ears.
<jrwren> and lame V0 is VERY close to FLAC for most peoples ears.
<snap-l> I know. :)
<jrwren> but I've done the blind listening test and guessed FLAC over V0 :)
<jrwren> it was not easy though.
<snap-l> Yeah, there's subtleties
<jrwren> i had to relisten and seek back to the parts I thought i heard quality degredation
<jrwren> if it was just a short cilp and I could not seek, i'd not have been able to make a judgement
<Milyardo> jrwren: Just means your volume isn't high enough
<Milyardo> Vivaldi is worthy of only max volume imo
<greg-g> snap-l: where are these files?
<snap-l> Uploading
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/ss7/ <- Sample 1
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/ssC/ <- Sample 2
<snap-l> (still uploading 2)
<snap-l> OK, it's uploaded
<jrwren> no, it doesn't mean my volume isn't high enough.
<jrwren> and the point is??? FLAC > lame v0 ?  I alread know this, I don't need to take this test :)
<wolfger> the test is for me, jrwren
<wolfger> because I said they were the same thing
<snap-l> right
<jrwren> right.
<wolfger> although I don't know what this V0 crap is....
<snap-l> Highest quality lame
<wolfger> ah
<snap-l> Variable Bit Rate, quality level 0 (best quality)
<wolfger> where I come from, "quality level 0" means no quality :-p
<snap-l> Yeah, it's backwards
<wolfger> need new foam hands for the big game... "We're #0!"
<wolfger> Epic FAIL. I just got a work e-mail with a link to an intranet site.
<wolfger> I tried to access it 3 times, and got 3 *different* 500 errors
<rick_h__> ok, this doesn't give me faith in how LP is put together: http://blog.launchpad.net/performance/launchpad-answers-is-faster
<wolfger> aren't they scrapping that in favor of AskUbuntu anyway?
<wolfger> :-p
<jrwren> http://www.whatinterviewprep.com/preparefortheinterview.html   and  http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lame#Recommended_encoder_settings
<jrwren> I like "Audible differences between these presets exist, but are rare. "  WRT V0-V3  I can tell big diff between V0 and V2 even
<rick_h__> hah, man Canonical just gets things fired up: http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary.html?start=296
<greg-g> rick_h__: wow! (re: the LP answers email thing)
<rick_h__> greg-g: it seems a pretty basic 101 "we're building a big service" kind of thing doesn't it?
<rick_h__> I mean, how many years has that been going on and no one noticed?
<greg-g> no kidding
<greg-g> I mean, *I* even know that. Queue up email sending.
<snap-l> apparently I need to get some ant traps
<snap-l> There's a web cast at work, and someone is standing right in front of the camera
<snap-l> I think he's talking to the camera-operator
<ColonelPanic001> brilliant
<snap-l> Heh, this is brillant
<krondor> so much for playing with the playbook, someone already nabbed it.  I expect it will make it's way back to me in a few weeks.
<binbrain> http://cnj.craigslist.org/web/2308566632.html
<binbrain> any takers?
<jrwren> rofl.
<rick_h__> sweet
<rick_h__> but I don't know if I'm professional enough
<jrwren> i'm so professional that I don't work for chump changes.
<snap-l> I'm seeing HP really trying like hell to make WebOS fly
<snap-l> That makes me happy
<snap-l> We need a third player that isn't Microsoft. ;)
<rick_h__> come on december
<rick_h__> though I think at this point it wouldn't be a webos phone, too bought into my google/android happiness
<snap-l> Yeah, there's a lot of lead in Android / iOS
<snap-l> We need more Cory Doctorows in this world
<snap-l> people who can eloquently explain why DRM and trusted computing are not good for consumers
<snap-l> http://www.miroguide.com/items/4037324
<jrwren> and do nothing about it? ;)
<snap-l> That's kinda harsh. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-13
<snap-l> Have you ever heard of someone running hibernate on a desktop machine?
<snap-l> http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=1174740
<rick_h__> snap-l: yea, I've heard of it
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Just had someone from DTE replace our meter with a new smart meter.
<rick_h__> coolio
<greg-g> snap-l: hibernating a desktop makes sense if you don't want to reload all of your apps, but don't want to burn unneeded watts over night
<snap-l> Well, it would have been nicer if they didn't come right at 8am
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, that's true
<snap-l> Just not a use-case that I've used.
<greg-g> snap-l: I did when I was a desktop user
<snap-l> Music to wiggle your mind-controlled cat ears to: It's !openmetalcat Club Metal, Episode 3: http://ur1.ca/463pk
<snap-l> greg-g: I just keep the machine on all night. ;)
<rick_h__> hah, so I got forwarded an email from work asking for my opinions on the cr-48.
<brousch> point them to your blog post
<PainBank> oy
<PainBank1> hello
<PainBank1> why would a channel return"Cannot Send to Channel" ?
<greg-g> PainBank1: maybe it is muted?
<snap-l> And you don't have voice
<brousch> How to get rick_h__ to switch to Unity? http://www.rojtberg.net/419/intruducing-teatime/
<snap-l> There ya go
<snap-l> rick_h__: Are they seriously thinking of moving the staff to CR48s?
<rick_h__> snap-l: no idea, some staff member linked an article to my boss on them and boss forwarded to me asking what I thought about them
<rick_h__> I don't see why a lot of staff couldn't use them
<rick_h__> and if it means we ditch our exchange wannabe for google apps I'd be happy as a clam
<snap-l> That would be cool
<snap-l> Maybe if you give your NC developer a busybox web-app, then he and you will be more productive. ;)
<snap-l> "I haven't seen any check-ins from NC dude for a while" "I know... isn't it lovely?"
<rick_h__> no, his new thing is that he found some vim-like plugin for pycharm and he's all happy
<rick_h__> I've been debugging some new, thorny code these last few days and it would have been much less pleasant had I not been able to single step through the code, examine things easily, evaluate expressions on the fly, etc..
<rick_h__> "" ^^
<rick_h__> which looking at his crap code no wonder he needs to step through it
<rick_h__> brousch: heh, yea, except I make tea in a kitchen and use a kitchen timer for it
<snap-l> rick_h__: But now you can use the power of Unity to help make your tea
<snap-l> It could only get better if there were a tea-making lens. ;)
<wolfger> party?
<wolfger> ok, now that PainBank1 is gone: party!
<wolfger> snap-l: I did not take your test last night. Did you see my Buzz last night about the Black Metal Chef?
<snap-l> Yep, I shared that before. ;)
<wolfger> ah, ok. I picked it up from somebody else
<brousch> me
<brousch> i have no idea where i got it from
<_stink_> if i had a nickel...
<wolfger> brousch: You are K Atrus?
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/73415796
<wolfger> snap-l: OpenMetal Cat?
<snap-l> Bah
<snap-l> Thanks.
<wolfger> It's an interesting mental image, at least :-)
<snap-l> Wel, yeah, if you're wiggling your cat ears, you'll want to listen to Open Metalcat. ;)
<wolfger> Look for snap-l next year at Penguicon wearing a headbanging cat fursuit
<snap-l> You can look all you want.
<wolfger> or at the next launch party... ocelot is a cat, innit?
<wolfger> so what's Ocelot+1 going to be? Pearly Parrot? With fully functional Parrot interpretor for Perl6 shipping as the default scripting language?
<snap-l> Plump Pompadoms.
<brousch> wolfger: no, i posted the vegan black meta chef to twitter and FB wednesday. i assumed you had picked it up there
<wolfger> no, I got it off of Buzz
<brousch> i tend to neglect posting to buzz. it feels like no one reads it on there
<wolfger> It's the only social media (other than Identica) that I can access from work, and since it's part of Gmail, it's also what I check the most outside of work, too
<brousch> yeah, read it regularly, just rarely post to it
<wolfger> wow... "also" and "too" in the same sentence. I are a good writer :-p
<wolfger> I have my Buzz set up to feed Twitter and FB everything I post :-)
<brousch> you misspelled 'r'
<brousch> wolfger: i used to, then i looked at the tweets and FB posts it generated. they are inferior to native tweets and posts
<brousch> for instance, your post to FB does not include a normal youtube video link
<wolfger> true, and I dislike that
<brousch> it also chops off after like 140 characters and tacks on a bitly link back to the buzz
<brousch> i got too annoyed by that
<snap-l> Yeah, my buzz is all posts from identi.ca
<snap-l> I check it every now and again because I might miss somethng that was on twitter.
<wolfger> Pic #4 kinda reminds me of greg-g... :-D    http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/10/norway.beard.moustache.championship/index.html?hpt=C2
<brousch> wolfger: omg that is him!
<greg-g> wolfger: hey now!
<wolfger> does wearing a fox on your head make you a furry? ;-)
<snap-l> Wow. Now if he could only work in some welding goggles, I think we'd have Mr. Steampunk 2011
<snap-l> #5 is a personal favorite
<wolfger> "steampunk": Any costume that incorporates leather-and-brass goggles.
<snap-l> http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=79719 <- Man, Unity is not getting any love
<rick_h__> snap-l: and you were expecting?
<rick_h__> this is the great exodus cyle
<rick_h__> cycle
<rick_h__> they'll come back around LTS after getting some reminder why then went to ubuntu and as unity solidifies and lets people do things like move that bar around
<snap-l> I was really hoping people would use it first before jumping ship
<snap-l> rick_h__: Agreed
<rick_h__> sounds like this guy did
<snap-l> Though I pimped lococast. ;)
<rick_h__> and I don't like it...
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h__> that he did an upgrade and tried it
<rick_h__> just responding to your wish people try it
<rick_h__> sounds like he did, and found it lacking for him
<snap-l> Yeah, but Unity is not somethingthat you can try for 10 minutes
<snap-l> You need 15 minutes with someone who can tell you where everything is
<snap-l> It's not discoverable.
<rick_h__> lol "I don't care for either Unity or Gnome 3 for my goto system for a few different reasons. However, I'm not their target audience...
<rick_h__> "
<rick_h__> glad I'm not the only one to realize that
<Milyardo_> Where did this Patrick Goetz guy trolling ubuntu-dev come from? After reading that thread on the mailing list I had to double check I wasn't actaully reading comments on slashdot or reddit instead
<brousch> kubuntu for the settle?
<brousch> i might try kubuntu
<brousch> haven't really touched it since ~2008
<brousch> pdfs are driving me nuts lately
<brousch> we got a 141 page pdf of 30x42" blueprints. the damn things are generated by drafting or modeling software and take forever to render
<snap-l> Those are huge
<snap-l> Yeah, they'll take a while ro render, especially if they are image files
<brousch> and they use some goofy thing in them that annoys pdftk, so i can't even split them efficiently
<brousch> evince doesn't seem to understand a paper size other than 8.5x11
<brousch> i think they're actually vector graphics, but they have so much frickin detail
<brousch> placement of objects depends on the placement of other objects, and the calculations take forever
<snap-l> brousch: Check out xpdf. It's what I use when evince falls over flat.
<brousch> does it have print?
<brousch> evince opens fine, but slow. it doesn't want to print on a big piece of paper
<rick_h__> yea, <3 xpdf
<rick_h__> though with google chrome doing pdf rendering not been using it much lately
<snap-l> rick_h__: I had to turn that off. ;)
<snap-l> Drove me insane
<rick_h__> yea? how come
<brousch> also i need to strip out the no printing security on this pdf
<brousch> evince ignore that
<brousch> ignores
<snap-l> rick_h__: because it would view PDFs that I'd rather just save
<rick_h__> snap-l: ah, guess I'm used to right-click save
<brousch> i wrote a script that pipes annoying pdfs through various splitters and converts them to big old jpegs
<brousch> but half the time something in the pdf is "broken" and the utilities don't work
<rick_h__> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/developers-hit-by-legal-threats-over-ios-in-app-purchasing-upgrades/12763
<rick_h__> man, gotta love the world we live in
<snap-l> rick_h__: That's our generations gold prospectors
<snap-l> fucking patent trolls and "intellectual property"
<brousch> my god kubuntu is a fugly beast
<brousch> how does anyone use this?
<Blazeix> I was playing around with xubuntu last week. It's amazing.
<brousch> it's like someone took osx, added 10x more annoying, superluous effects and removed all usability
<snap-l> brousch: kubuntu is the Fischer Price of desktops
<wolfger> hey now
<brousch> Blazeix: i have retreated to xubuntu in the past. it is indeed nice
<brousch> the damn shut down button doesn't even work
<brousch> in kubuntu
<wolfger> ???
<wolfger> works for me
<wolfger> little else does
<brousch> silently fails
<wolfger> I reinstalled Kubuntu at Penguicon, and it was a massive load of fail
<wolfger> but the reboot button worked just fine
<wolfger> oh, wait, I did "sudo reboot" from Konsole, didn't I? :-p
<snap-l> Did the "OMG, get me out of here" button work as well? :)
<brousch> it makes me want to punch myself in the balls
<wolfger> it makes me want brousch to punch himself in the balls too
<brousch> i guess it's useful for something then
<wolfger> snap-l: since when was F-P so insanely configurable? I think you're confusing KDE with Unity.
<wolfger> Unity is the FIscher-Price desktop
<snap-l> wolfger: I was able to drive in real nails with my Fisher-Price hammer
<snap-l> that's configurable. ;)
<snap-l> also converted it into a bludgeon on my friend, and gave him a big gash
<wolfger> LOL
<brousch> i'm gonna end up on ubuntu 10.04 for 2 more years
<brousch> oh man, xpdf is some old-school shiznit
<krondor> brousch: wow I haven't used that in years
<brousch> snap-l and rick_h__ suggested it for an issue i'm having with pdfs
<brousch> it seems to be generating a .ps successfully
<brousch> hopefully i can turn that into something useful
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, it's not pretty, but it works
<brousch> damn, that interface and printing dialog takes me back to frickin 1997 and the sun workstations at UM
<snap-l> It's the PDF reader of last resort. ;)
<krondor> snap-l:  yeah I would think so!  lol any program that's named Xsomething you know is going to feel like a trip down memory lane.
<rick_h__> brousch: did it work?
<snap-l> Oh, btw: this finally uploaded (the Kobo discussion)
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/sXf/
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> "dude, close the dippy ticket, we don't make the pdfs, we just sell hardware hoping someone will try to use it"
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> Figured it was worth a shot, but was well aware they'd tell me to piss up a rope.
<brousch> rick_h__: it generated a postscript file. trying to convert it to something useful now
<krondor> anyone been to umichlug?
<wolfger> didn't know there was a umichlug
<krondor> me neither, I had someone ask me if I could do the KDE talk from pcon at an ann arbor lug, I guess I assumed it was that one.
 * brousch kisses snap-l on the head
<brousch> i'm getting jpgs from the .ps. they are taking about 30s each to generate
<brousch> assuming my laptop doesn't melt, i'll have good stuff in an hour
<brousch> crap, wait a minute they're 8.5x11
<wolfger> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-world-map.html
<jrwren> anyone use remote syslog? I've got an old hardy server being remote syslog and it seems like it gets overloaded even with very few messages.
<brousch> jrwren: a couple of people in grpug do remote logging. i think they both stopped using the remote syslog. they do something like pushing the logs to a remote db every minute or something
<brousch> might even be a queue server involved
<brousch> sorry, i'm pretty much braindead today
<krondor> jrwren:  a long time ago, though I've been looking at doing it again.  I think after the wings lose last night I won't be much help recalling anything I used to do...
<wolfger> agh
<wolfger> I thought I would be safe from hearing about the Wings game in this channel
<wolfger> thanks, Krondor
<wolfger> :-p
<snap-l> We tried remote syslogging, but it didn't seem to work very well
<snap-l> wolfger: I think you want ubuntu-us-oh for Wings safety
<wolfger> (actually, I'd already had the ending ruined for me, but I was intending to keep it a mystery until I could watch the game)
<brousch> snap-l: i don't know. one guy i know from ohio is a huge wings fan
<wolfger> I caught a glimpse of a thumbnail pic earlier that had smiling faces in what I could identify as Sharks jerseys :-(
<wolfger> but usually sports don't get discussed here unless I bring them up
<snap-l> wolfger: Sorry, bud
<brousch> bah, sounds like you saved him hours of pain and heartache. you probably saved his life
<krondor> wolfger: :'(
<snap-l> Yeah, but what life is worth living knowing that the wings didn't win last night?
<snap-l> I'll tell you, not much
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> yeah, actually, I'm glad I found out they lost, rather than waste an evening watching the heartbreak
 * krondor trying hard not to start ranting about hockey
<_stink_> it was a pretty good game, though.
<brousch> no way, the wings totally got robbed
<wolfger> krondor: want a hocket rant? How about "why the f*** is Detroit still stuck in the Western Conference, so that we are stuck with all these late-night playoff games those of us with jobs can't watch?"
<wolfger> no offense to those of us with jobs who could watch it....
<wolfger> but last night was an early start time. Normall games in San Jose start at 10 or 10:30, and I go to bed at 10 :-p
<krondor> ooh that's a favorite rant, with an obvious answer.  wings in the east isn't fair or our chief rival would end up as the leafs which is no rivalry.
<wolfger> No team in the Eastern time zone should be stuck in the Western conference
<wolfger> and the Detroit-Toronto rivalry is a huge tradition
<wolfger> I miss the home-at-home double headers they used to have, and the big road trips fans would make to attend both games
<_stink_> my guess is that it's so Chicago isn't the only original six team in the West.
<wolfger> Meh
<wolfger> and could you imagine a Chicago-Detroit Stanley Cup final? EPIC
<wolfger> Having Eastern teams in the Western conference makes no sense whatsoever, and it sucks for both Eastern and Western fans
<snap-l> Having two conferences is dumb.
<snap-l> let 'em all fight it out
<wolfger> only reason is the idea that they need to keep the conferences balanced in terms of number of teams
<wolfger> and snap-l has a very valid point, too
<snap-l> Also, best of three
<wolfger> do away with conferences and divisions, and come playoff time let the 16 best teams in the league duke it out
<snap-l> And there needs to be a way to canonnize Don Cherry
<snap-l> St Cherry
<wolfger> and without divisions, you won't wind up with some crap team getting a #3 seed
<wolfger> St. Cherry? Or St. Blue?
<brousch> omg failwhale is flying
<wolfger> Cherry just doesn't strike me as very saintly
<wolfger> but I'd get behind bestowing that honor on his dog
<snap-l> wolfger: The fuck you say?
<snap-l> Don Cherry has been criticized for comments targeting specific ethnicities such as French Canadians and Europeans and this has led to Cherry's broadcasts being put on a seven second delay by the CBC[13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24]
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> That's a lot of attribution. ;P
<greg-g> I love doing that on WP, adding tons of references for one sentence :)
<_stink_> haha
<binbrain> anybody want to help me with a networking problem
<binbrain> a problem with a dhcp server over wireless via ad-hoc?
<binbrain> I can make direct contact, ping and all
<binbrain> I can nmap from the client and see ports 67 open
<binbrain> I start dhclient on the wlan0, I see packets go out via tcpdump
<binbrain> on the server I see nothing via tcpdump
<binbrain> I can ping the server from the client via the broadcast address though
<snap-l> are you sure the client is requesting?
<binbrain> tcpdump says it is
<binbrain> 192.168.0.99.47173 > 192.168.0.1.67: BOOTP/DHCP
<binbrain> thats from the client
<snap-l> hmmm
<binbrain> if I nc -u 192.168.0.2 67 I can write and see output on tcpdump
<snap-l> .2 or .1?
<binbrain> its like, for some reason, the broadcast 192.168.0.255 never makes it to the server, even though if I ping -b 192.168.0.255 I see output
<snap-l> You've got two separate servers listed there.
<binbrain> 99 is the client's temp IP that I assign
<binbrain> .1 the server
<binbrain> .2 is a typo
<binbrain> should be .1
<snap-l> ok
<snap-l> Have you tried clearing out the lease?
<binbrain> on the client
<binbrain> yes
<snap-l> also on the server/
<snap-l> ?
<binbrain> that was a problem I think, but I clear them out now
<binbrain> no
<binbrain> let me try that
<binbrain> ok, be back in a min :)
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> wtf the failwhale is still flying
<TeamXlink> I've got two power supplies hooked up to my computer.
<TeamXlink> When is powering the motherboard, which my agp graphics card is connected to.
<TeamXlink> And the other is powering my fans and has the four pin plug connected to the power on my graphics card.
<TeamXlink> If I "strip and splice" the wires from both of the powersupplies four pin connector to it, will it work?
<snap-l> Please for the love of God do not do this.
<snap-l> all you'll do is feed the power from one supply into the other supply, and (if your lucky) will blow out the weaker of the two
<snap-l> TeamXlink: ^^
<TeamXlink> Alright.
<TeamXlink> Sweet, thanks.
<snap-l> Well, I'd rather you not be picking up the pieces for something that sounds good, but is very dangerous.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-14
<brousch> finishing my last beer left over from the global jam
<rick_h__> nice
<rick_h__> here you go snap-l: http://dullass.blogspot.com/2011/05/ubuntu-studio-moving-to-xfce.html
<snap-l> Yeah, saw that
<snap-l> I think it's a better move for Ubuntu Studio, anyway
<snap-l> Given that studio work wants stability, not new features
<snap-l> Yay, getting a push mower. :)
<brousch> i love my electric mower
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm getting the Fiskar's push mower
<snap-l> no gas, no electric
<snap-l> just me pushing it.
<brousch> do you want to die?
<brousch> i did that the first year we moved into the house
<brousch> back when i was young and in shape
<brousch> it sucks
<brousch> the cut is crummy and it's _a lot_ of work
<brousch> i ended up weed whacking the whole yard as that was easier
<snap-l> That's why I'm getting the Fiskars.
<snap-l> That and I have a small lawn. ;)
<brousch> who was thinking of starting an android group on the east side? http://www.devmobility.net/
<brousch> krondo or something?
<brousch> snap-l: that cr photo is awesome
<rick_h__> Ypsilanti? That counts as east these days?
<brousch> ann arbor is the west end of the east side
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h__> http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=10188&cn=416&d=322
<snap-l> The one of my car covered in petals?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-15
<Dekkard> yards
<brousch> greg-g: got yer ears on?
<greg-g> ears?
<widox> greg-g: cb lingo good buddy, over.
 * widox watched to much dukes of hazzard
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> brousch: got them on now, or something
<greg-g> widox: was that good?
<greg-g> :)
<widox> ...maybe
<greg-g> :P
<snap-l> Good evening
<snap-l> NIN Ghosts I-IV sounds like a soundtrack
<rick_h__> is that a bad thing?
<snap-l> No, not at all
<snap-l> I finally picked up the CD along with Pretty Hate Machine
<snap-l> <- CD Buying kick
<snap-l> I'm bringing the industry back
<snap-l> Ghosts fels like the precursor to the social network soundtrack
<TeamXlink> Wow.
<TeamXlink> Just wow.
<TeamXlink> I can't descrive it in words,
<TeamXlink> brb
<TeamXlink> I'll take photos
<TeamXlink> Nevermind.\
<TeamXlink> I can't find my camera in all of this cut metal.
<TeamXlink> Tommorrow, photos will arrive.
<TeamXlink> I will never do this again though.
<TeamXlink> Way to much work, to do this, and for what, one large fan to get better cooling
<TeamXlink> Which with all of the case metal cutting and trying to mount things weird and set them in there, and the cords everywhere, I have worse air flow.
<snap-l> Good morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-07
<rick_h_> anyone know how to do shell alias with the parameters inside the alias
<rick_h_> should just be a bin script I guess to use $1, not working in alias
<rick_h_> mrongin
<rick_h_> morning...ugh monday
<snap-l> morning
<brousch> breadability! i shall fill it with baking tips and articles on peanut butter
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> but really, very cool
<rick_h_> thanks, been a rough week trying to get that out/working. But honestly it's 80% converting JS to python
<brousch> heh
<brousch> is the "b" for bookie?
<rick_h_> yea, just needed my own namespace
<rick_h_> there's already readabitilty, python-readability, etc
<rick_h_> and many of them have a package name but you import readability
<rick_h_> so they can't co-exist
<rick_h_> stupid devs
<rick_h_> I've got my own name, own api
<brousch> should be "rreadability" for rick's readability
<rick_h_> heh
<brousch> rrrreadability: rick's really radical readability
<rick_h_> and changed over readable.bmark.us to now use my library...bye bye python-readability http://goo.gl/y02Je
<shakes808> Good morning all
<rick_h_> party
<shakes808> rick_h_: How was your weekend? Anything exciting go on?
<rick_h_> lots of time with teh boy this weekend
<shakes808> Awesome
<brousch> good weekend then
<shakes808> What did you do?
<rick_h_> yea, good stuff. wife was working this weekend
<brousch> rick_h_: is your boy into trains?
<rick_h_> and pretty nice out to get out and play around
<shakes808> I took my son to a couple of birthday parties and the Tiger's game Sunday
<shakes808> sweet
<rick_h_> brousch: on the todo list to figure out I think. He's just learning about thomas from day care I think
<rick_h_> ah, very cool
<brousch> Thomas was in dearborn last weekend and this weekend
<rick_h_> he's 2 so we're still at learning the joy of bubbles
<brousch> yeah, a bit too young for that event
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> it gets a little crazy
<rick_h_> did get in the longest bike ride of the year trying out a new path around hte area
<rick_h_> feeling the pain of the 17miles
<brousch> oh come on. i ride that in an hour according to my exercise bike
<rick_h_> lol, well this was 1:15 and avg 13.9mph
<rick_h_> and had hills :P
<brousch> yeah, i'm quite sure the exercise bike is lying
<rick_h_> hey, next time you're out this way bring your bike and we'll go for a ride
<shakes808> Where are you biking at? I do a 20 mile track, from my house to the Nautical mile and back
<rick_h_> so I just hit sidewalks, through a subdivision, up to a state park, did a round through the park, and home again
<rick_h_> so was bout 7mi to the park, little over 2mi in the park and back
<shakes808> What park do you go to?
<rick_h_> independence oaks
<shakes808> Isn't that out in the Waterford / White Lake area?
<rick_h_> yea, that's where I'm at
<rick_h_> out by Dte
<shakes808> Cool, How is that park? They do camping there right? I used to work for a RV Dealer and I think we had some displays there a few weekends a year. Got to drive the Big RVs and Trailer there to set them up :D
<rick_h_> yea, they've got some campgrounds, we've only ever really done the paved river trail and some of the non-paved walking trails
<rick_h_> it's so close we just go up for the excercise and haven't used it as a campgrounds
<brousch> damnit MS, focus should follow mouse
<shakes808> If you ever find yourself in the Sterling Hieghts area and want to do some biking, go to Dodge Park. They have some nice paved trails and the back trails are nice as well :D
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> I need to get in shape to do the macomb orchard trail again this year.
<rick_h_> about killed me last year, 40mi of phew
<shakes808> I used to do a lot of biking. Kensington has some nice trails and so do Stony Creek.
<shakes808> Damn
<shakes808> That sounds amazing
<rick_h_> yea, I've heard kensington is nice, one of the MUG guys rides there a lot
<rick_h_> http://www.macombcountymi.gov/macomborchardtrail/index.htm
<shakes808> I like doing the trail at 25? mile and Shelby road all the way to Rochester and back. Not long but fun
<rick_h_> 24mi out, stop for lunch, 24mi back, all paved pretty nice
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> haha
<shakes808> that is the one I just mentioned
<shakes808> Didn't know the name of it
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> That is the start of another trail, I think. I start at the 25 mile area and head south
<shakes808> I take that to downtown Rochester and stop at the Brewery there for a drink and light bite and then head back. :D I am always tempted to fill my camel pack up with some fine drink :D Make the trip back that much more enjoyable ;)
<snap-l> Good morning, again
<shakes808> G'day Chap!
<snap-l> I'm at that point in Pyweek when I'm happy I have something simple to display on the page, but then the realization of how far I have to go sets in
<shakes808> Did I tell you, I got my game working
<shakes808> Here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/FINAL222.tar.gz
<shakes808> Enemy sprites are there. Levels are working. It runs better on in Linux then Windows. It doesn't lag like I was saying it did in Windows.
<brousch> big surprise
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, I didn't get a chance to look at it yet.
<snap-l> Will probably look at it after this week
<shakes808> Gotcha, I didn't know if I updated you on it
<snap-l> Yeah, you did
<shakes808> cool
<shakes808> What are you making for pyweek?
<snap-l> With any luck, a working game that's fun to play. :)
<shakes808> haah
<shakes808> ha
<snap-l> The theme is "Mad Scientist". Right now, you're a lab assistant who needs to clean up the lab before the professor puts together his experiment wrong
<snap-l> You have the ability to distract him, but every distraction makes him mad
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> counds cool
<shakes808> sounds
<snap-l> when he's mad, he does something (chases you out, or something of that nature. Not sure what at this point)
<snap-l> But the hard part is to get the professor to bumble about
 * snap-l has only done simple AI in the past.
<shakes808> What do you want him to do?
<snap-l> Path finding, bumbling, pick up the wrong item if it isn't in the right spot.
<snap-l> pick up the right item if it is in the right spot
<snap-l> chase the lab assistant
<shakes808> So just pick up random items?
<snap-l> Yes and no
<_Marcus> maybe
<shakes808> Why not have specific locations where there are items but have a random item generate in those spots
<snap-l> I think he'll have a timer before he starts picking up things
<snap-l> that'll give the player some time to get things into the right spots
<shakes808> OH, you want the player to be able to put the items in the spots
<snap-l> shakes808: Oh, I can figure out how to get him to find objects in different locations. That's not a problem
<shakes808> or switch them around like a puzzle
<snap-l> problem is if I put walls and stuff in there.
<snap-l> I may need to simplify the problem so I don't have to resort to A* pathfinding
<shakes808> Could make a simple map of 1s and 0s and denote each as an object that blocks or not
<snap-l> which wouldn't be so bad, but it's all in how much time I have to finish
<snap-l> busy-busy-bugs became that sort of simplification
<snap-l> cut out that which can't be coded in time
<shakes808> I still need to try that out
<snap-l> shakes808: Just understand that it only has 20 coded levels
<snap-l> so if you get to level 160+, you've essentially beaten the game
<snap-l> had someone actually lodge that as a complaint during the judging
<jrwren> rick_h_: 13.9mph 17 miles!!!  holy crap! very impressive.
<jrwren> wtf are you riding?
<snap-l> which surprised me.
<shakes808> That is a lot of levels
<shakes808> Why would they complain?
<shakes808> lol
<jrwren> brousch: https://sinewalker.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/ms-windows-focus-follows-mouse-registry-hacks/
<brousch> heh, thanks
<snap-l> shakes808: Because they couldn't "win". It never got harder than level 20
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> brousch: Trust me, Windows can't handle focus follows mouse
<snap-l> at least Win 95 / 98 couldn't.
<shakes808> Could increase the speed :D
<snap-l> shakes808: If I ever get the itch to play with that code again, yes. :)
<shakes808> "make smaller pong paddles"
<snap-l> It needed more animation too
<shakes808> Gotcha
<snap-l> again, compromises to finish. :)
<shakes808> If you need any help with animation / graphics, I know someone that MIGHT be willing to help out with it. She is a graphics major and wants to do games.
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> twisted twister never got sound either.
<shakes808> I understand
<snap-l> shakes808: That's the fun / beauty of these competitions.
<shakes808> I play a little guitar and bass if you want some sounds :D
<snap-l> shakes808: I do a little composition. :)
<shakes808> nice
<shakes808> electronic or instrumental?
<snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/364994/echochasm
<snap-l> Electronic, as I only play drums
<shakes808> I believe you have some drum sticks in  your cube.
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> yep
<shakes808> Space Noodle sounds like something the Blue Man Group would do :D With the PVC Pipes
<shakes808> Not sure if that is what you were going for or if you take that as a compliment, but it is cool :D
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<snap-l> Eventually I'll learn melody / harmony. :)
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> Some of the best is just by ear and what sounds good, not what is technically suppose to be the next note(s).
<shakes808> Santriani is a good technical player, but Claypools is a good, meh this sounds cool
<shakes808> player
<snap-l> 4J2006 is the latest of them
<shakes808> lol That one just started :D
<snap-l> Originally wanted to make a song for JoDee to sing
<shakes808> Jamacan :D
<shakes808> I am assuming that JoDee is your wife?
<snap-l> Uses an old Roland
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJi_wXPf43g
<snap-l> ROland D110
<shakes808> This what you are using?
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urYQt0GPS74
<snap-l> That's what I used for 4J
<snap-l> I use software synths most of the time
<snap-l> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/
<shakes808> wow, that looks like it is a fully functioning software like the suit I bought
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, it's pretty sweet
<snap-l> Most of the stuff that I used previously was rosegarden and MuSE
<snap-l> but LMMS is where I do my noodling now.
<rick_h_> jrwren: running a specialized crosstrail bike. <3 clip in pedals :)
<shakes808> That is pretty sweet. lol The software that I got is quite few years old and haven't even installed it. Bought it from Guitar Center with a bunch of gift certs.
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's actually higher than that, but my bike computer doesn't stop when I stop for lights and such so those stops bring the avg down
<snap-l> shakes808: what did you pick up?
<shakes808> ?? Sonar
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Haven't played with any of the commercial packages since Cakewalk
<shakes808> I couldn't install it on my PC I built because I didn't get a DVD Drive.
<snap-l> (and we're talking Cakewalk on a Win 3.1 machine)
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> nice
<shakes808> Sonar is Cakewalk
<snap-l> Though I did try some demo Mac programs on a 68040-based mac (Quadra 840AV)
<shakes808> I think it is in storage atm. When I get to take my stuff out of storage, I will mess with it :D
<shakes808> And if you want to play around with it, you are more than welcome to it
<snap-l> Nah, that's fine. I have enough to get into trouble with at the moment. :)
<snap-l> thank you, though
<shakes808> :D
<jrwren> are those roland d110 wave forms for fmsynth? what year was it?
<jrwren> rick_h_: crosstrail, like CX?
<rick_h_> jrwren: like this: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkFamily.jsp?sid=11CrossTrail&scid=0&scname=
<rick_h_> but a couple of years old now
<jrwren> rick_h_: *nod* i don't even use a bike computer, just GPS and it tells me my 7mi trips are 12mph
<rick_h_> ah, yea $30 bike computer easier to replace so the phone just plays music in the sadlebad protected (hopefully)
<jrwren> hardtail?
<jrwren> oh, i keep the phone in my pocket on my person :)
<shakes808> Camel pack is where it is safest
<shakes808> :D
<rick_h_> jrwren: I've got http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-QR-Beam-Rack-Bicycle/dp/B000FI6WSG/ref=pd_sim_sg_5 on there
<rick_h_> jrwren: but since I've gotten some bike shirts now with the pockets in teh back tempted to try to keep the phone in there instead
<rick_h_> I've just fallen a couple of times with the clip in pedals so don't want to land on my $$$ phone
<rick_h_> honestly almost tempted to do music another way and start leaving it at home
<snap-l> jrwren: I have a D110. Was doing MIDI with MuSE.
<snap-l> Was mostly because I wanted to play with it, and JoDee was busy working on something, so I could use headphones. :)
<jrwren> i don't wear bike clothes, just shorts and a tshirt to show my lack of commitment.s
<rick_h_> jrwren: I've started going bike clothes this last week, much much more comfy for sure
<jrwren> i have something veyr similar to this: http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-63107030-Explorer-Bike-Rack/dp/B000FIE3WI/ref=pd_sim_sg_2
<jrwren> kids seat used to slide onto it.
<jrwren> I guess I can remove it since kid is too big now :)
<rick_h_> yea, less weight ftw
<jrwren> lol, i'm on a 2000 Trek 830, I'm already super heavy.
<jrwren> my tires weigh more than a lot of street bikes
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh yea mine's pretty heavy for a 'new' bike so like the idea of getting hte rear bag off when I don't need it
<rick_h_> but afraid of walking 10mi home if something goes boom so like to have my emergency gear in that rear bag
<jrwren> ah.
<jrwren> ya know, I've ridden for 10 yrs (although not much for 5 in the middle there) and never had an emergency bag and never had an incident.
<jrwren> its one thing i really like about my Trek, i abuse teh hell out of it, and it keeps going
<rick_h_> I went on a 40mi ride with a guy on a road bike that had a flat for no obvious reason
<rick_h_> just up and went flat, paved clean trail, took him 20min to pip off, replace, put back on, etc. so kind of convinced me having a mini toolset, etc would be good
<rick_h_> so carry spare pump, inner tube, patch kit, tool deal, and air pressure gauge
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i road with a guy on a touring bike an dhe had flats all the time.
<jrwren> i'll stick with my rugged mntn bike
<rick_h_> should probably carry some bandages the way people like to take intersectinos sans-signals and looking while on the phone
<jrwren> oh a kit and a tube is definitely a good idea.
<jrwren> I'm a high risk person in general.
<shakes808> rick_h_: Wise choice. I seen someone that was on their bike get hit crossing over Schoenherr and Hall Rd.
<rick_h_> ugh, I know it'll happen one day. Everyone that rides much seems to get hit a few times, but not looking forward to the feeling
<shakes808> Someone should invent the bicycle air bags. :D
<jrwren> i got clipped by a truck that came into bike lane.
<shakes808> surround you like the boy in the bubble
<rick_h_> more weight
<jrwren> but they clipped my pannier bag
<jrwren> i barely noticed it
<shakes808> People are stoopid
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, not all stories are hard full collisions, but everyone's had the scary moments
<jrwren> i was pissed because it broke my bag mount.
<rick_h_> so the new bike clothes are bright yellow/orange
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> shakes808: Schoenherr and Hall Road is a bad intersection even in a car.
<snap-l> Hell, anywhere on Hall road is a bad deal for anything other than a car
<snap-l> I almost for run over crossing Hall road on several occasions, in a crosswalk
<rick_h_> I'm learning to despise the green arrow turn light
<rick_h_> people don't know the diff between green arrow and green light wrt pedestrian crossings
<snap-l> rick_h_: I wish it was accompanied by the "no turn except on green arrow" sign
<shakes808> rick_h_: Yes, I don't like that area and I try to avoid it as much as possible
<rick_h_> people see green arrow, and keep speed up, and it turns into a green light and I get a happy 'cross now' light
<shakes808> That whole area is full of inconsider drivers.
<rick_h_> but the car just keeps thinking "it's still green...go go go"
<snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, no kidding
<jrwren> i just ride on the road as a biker, like i"m supposed to, and ignore crosswalks. cars see me then.
<brousch> i don't ride because i don't want to die
<brousch> especially since they upped our streets to 45MPH
<jrwren> daily UDS summaries are welcome <-- to anyone at UDS this week.
<brousch> declaring objects with a type is so tedious
<jrwren> *sigh*  https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/X3fUhyJREKq
<jrwren> worse than reinventing the wheel every few years is some peoples absolute defense of reinventing the wheel.
<rick_h_> oh that's so crap...
<rick_h_> compare systemd and upstart and there's a crap ton more to it than that
<jrwren> btw, happy day: on saturday I finally installed a battery UPS ifor my modem, router, and server AND migrated from a failing disk to LVM mirrored boot. First time doing that ever and first time using grub2 to do it!  HURRAY FOR Linux getting REALLY AWESOME
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> rick_h_: agreed, i'm reading the G+ thread and it is a little depressing but Lennart just seems blind to reality
<rick_h_> let's just say it's been heavily disussed and not everyone likes code with little tests and massive combined responsibility
<jrwren> dude, you don't have to defend anything.
<rick_h_> sorry, the way that was phrased rubbed me very wrong
<jrwren> Lennart seems to be just barely walking the line of how to influence people RMS style.
<rick_h_> "From what I am hearing behind the scenes this appears to be very much about control. They control Upstart (both by being maintainer and even enforcing copyright assignment), and they think they don't control systemd. "
<jrwren> oh yeah.
<jrwren> Lennart is CRAZY
<jrwren> I've now read (well, mostly skimmed) the whole thread.
<rick_h_> there's a solid dozen 'technical' reasons nothing to do with freaking control
<jrwren> Jeff Waugh and Scott James Remnant chime in.
<jrwren> and if you want to argue about control, why is systemd encompassing udevd like they are? *sheesH*
<jrwren> it all seems a bit parandoid
<rick_h_> love this "who uses upstart?" http://docs.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Technical_Notes/deployment.html
<jrwren> *paranoid
<jrwren> hahaha, yeah!
<devinheitmueller> my experience is that Lennart is as crazy in person as he is in email (unfortuantely).
<devinheitmueller> For some people I know, they communicate poorly via email and are much nicer in person.  Lennart is not one of those people.
<rick_h_> hah, well ok glad this impression I'm forming I'm allowed to hold onto :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/05/google-hangouts-on-air-live-broadcasting-is-now-out-of-beta.ars
<snap-l> rick_h_: Wondered how long it would take for you to notice. :)
<snap-l> Does this mean I need to get a camera? :)'
<rick_h_> snap-l: I tried to order you one and get it sent to you, but I only have your old apt address in the system :(
<rick_h_> if I were to get a copy of a new address...
<snap-l> I think my wishlist has the updated address.
<snap-l> at least, I updated it since Christmas
<rick_h_> I can't see it from there, just your city
<rick_h_> ah nvm
<jrwren> testdrive using lxc instead of kvm could be sweet. http://www.stgraber.org/2012/03/04/booting-an-ubuntu-12-04-virtual-machine-in-an-lxc-container/
<jrwren> oh, and I didn't explicitly say it, but the UPS i got is a cyberpower and they ship a deb that works perfectly for me. YAY! so cool.
<jrwren> Mark is just really smart and a good leader
<jrwren> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/01/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t21:43
<jrwren> compare that attitude to the guy we read earlier. Lennart
<rick_h_> kind of cool: http://bartongeorge.net/2012/05/07/introducing-project-sputnik-developer-laptop/
<greg-g> jrwren: except when you actually get to have a "conversation" with him (in, say, Community Council meetings)
 * greg-g has been burned by too many unhelpful CC meetings where in the end it is "well, I envoke my sabdfl status"
<brousch> how's debian treating you?
<greg-g> brousch: wonderfully.
<greg-g> GNOME Shell actually, you know, works.
<brousch> i have to keep looking around what with kubuntu's uncertain future
<brousch> for some definition of work
<greg-g> KDE users have it been in Ubunut than GNOME users
<greg-g> Kubuntu is basically straight up KDE whereas GNOME is, well, not.
<jrwren> so... is it me or was open week a little scaled back compared to years past? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<greg-g> (as in, Kubuntu devs work with upstream first, as opposed to an afterthought "gotta make the upstreams happy or we here it in the blogs" thing)
<brousch> right, but now kubuntu is being run by the mysterious blue systems
<greg-g> brousch: funded by with Kubuntu governance, but yeah, he who weilds the money weilds power
<greg-g> wow, I just did a hear/here "typo"
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, they did fewer days across more timezones to enable more worldwide participation
<brousch> greg-g: the internet rots your brain
<rick_h_> jrwren: so longer days, fewer days
<rick_h_> jrwren: then again I look at that page and go...hmmm
<jrwren> but even number of sessions seems smaller.
<rick_h_> yea, guess it gets harder to get people to do these things maybe?
<rick_h_> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/13314396358/irc-workshops-for-12-04
<greg-g> brousch: this is your brain on the internet
<snap-l> Y'know, does this UDS seem kind of fatalistic to anyone else?
<rick_h_> snap-l: how so?
<snap-l> like "who cares what I think, it's just business as usual"
<snap-l> I pretty much couldn't care less what comes out of this UDS.
<rick_h_> I've not been following so not sure what's come up
<snap-l> I have 12.04. I'm happy. I'm not concerning myself with it for a while.
<brousch> snap-l: it might be a symptom of the LTS. you know you can sit on it for years if you need to
<snap-l> Kind of in the greg-g camp of "well, sabdfl and some cabal will do what they want, so who cares what I think?"
<snap-l> brousch: Exactly.
<rick_h_> yea, I think that's a good sign though really. People (except greg-g :P ) seem pretty happy with 12.04...kind of that satisfied post-thanksgiving time
<snap-l> I just dread what sort of clusterfuck will come out of this UDS
<rick_h_> well the debate on just how much input/etc you have has been a debate for years though
<snap-l> Maybe that's it, right there.
<brousch> i mean, even with the blue systems thing i feel like i'm in good shape for 2 years
<rick_h_> we've had that discussion many times
<snap-l> 12.04 was so it could get to a stable point
<snap-l> and now 12.10 will get the astronauts mucking with it again
<brousch> there's more than 1?
<rick_h_> yea, but I think you'll be safe if the goals from mark's post work out. Pretty up, font rendering, etc
<greg-g> snap-l: right, LTS+1 is crazy release
<snap-l> rick_h_: I don't buy it. There's gotta be at least one community piss-off
<rick_h_> snap-l: hah, yea I guess something will come along
<rick_h_> but I'm hoping things aren't going to get the normal 'let's repave the road' of normal LTS+1
<snap-l> But even so, I don't feel the need to even think about it
<snap-l> I'm not scrambling to figure out how to listen to it
<snap-l> and I know I'll be deleting the UDS posts from Planet Ubuntu
<snap-l> Hah, I already paused it post 12.04
<greg-g> paused what?
<snap-l> paused the Planet Ubunt feed under r2e
<snap-l> so it won't e-mail me changes
<greg-g> wow
<rick_h_> greg-g: ?
<greg-g> pausing the planet.ubuntu.com feed seems like a big step, to me :)
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> greg-g: WEll, there's only so much self-congratulatory I can take
<snap-l> after a while, it's just noise
<shakes808> snap-l: What is going on for Mug tomorrow?
<rick_h_> http://www.mug.org/
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> pretty awesome: http://oss.oetiker.ch/remocular/
<jrwren> font rendering.
<jrwren> if they go true DPI, I'll be happy :)
<jrwren> sadly, i've not even seen it proposed
<shakes808> rick_h_: thank you
<shakes808> I keep going to the Ubuntu.com LOCO
<snap-l> rick_h_: breadability?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea
<snap-l> That sounds like a bad marketing pitch
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, well I suck at names and wanted to keep readability in the name
<snap-l> WOnder Bread, now with more breadability.
<rick_h_> need to show up in http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=readability&submit=search
<snap-l> rick_h_: Expect the next fork to be creadability.
<rick_h_> and I cna even do crap like say it's "Better Readabliity" later if I want :P
<greg-g> myAwesomeReadabilityForkIsBetterThanYourReadabilityFork
<rick_h_> which it's not atm, but working on it
<greg-g> there, its even in there twice
<rick_h_> in that case I'd just call it testedReadability
<rick_h_> myreadabilityForkHasTestsAndRunsThroughCI
<snap-l> ÑÐµÑÐ»Ð¸Ð²Ð¾ÑÑ
<greg-g> ????
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> Which is readability in Bulgarian
<rick_h_> ah, good plan
<greg-g> because Bulgarian is sooooo readable
<snap-l> ÑÐ¸ÑÐ°Ð±ÐµÐ»ÑÐ½Ð¾ÑÑÑ
<snap-l> ^ Russian
<rick_h_> not readable, readability, I keep hitting that difference
<snap-l> leggibilitÃ  <- Italian
<snap-l> loetavus
<snap-l> ^ estonian
<greg-g> need something translated, send it to snap-l
<snap-l> send it to translate.google.com
<greg-g> he'll be the best Google Translate bot ever
<snap-l> How do you think I handle the cyrillic translations. ;)
<greg-g> can someone using Unity on 12.04 confirm something for me?
<greg-g> open nautilus, select a file (click on it, or arrow down to it), press the menu key (to bring up the menu for that item), press "r".  Do you then have to press enter or are you automatically brought to renaming the item?
<greg-g> actually, do you have to press "r" twice?
<greg-g> I do.
<greg-g> so much for efficient keyboard shortcuts
 * greg-g grumbles more
 * greg-g goes to get lunch so he stomach stops grumbling
<jrwren> breedability - because i am so beautiful i have high breedability
<greg-g> I think I was just hit by some flying corn
<rick_h_> watch out! it's dangerous
<rick_h_> have I mentioned how much I hate bzr lately? *sigh*
<rick_h_> ok, that's kind of cool https://plus.google.com/111121889834083374588/posts/HMCHb5bp8yn
<Scott_firebeta> is that the raspberrypi?
<rick_h_> heh no
<jrwren> probably an ubuntu tv device
<snap-l> Apparently the Google / Oracle trial concluded that doing a jury trial for technology cases is stupid.
<greg-g> snap-l++
<greg-g> jury for a copyright trail, also stupid
<greg-g> they said: 1) They infringed but 2) we couldn't decide if it was fair use
<greg-g> those are contradictory statement
<greg-g> s
<snap-l> Well, and infringed on what?
<greg-g> yeah, apparently not the docs
 * greg-g hasn't fully read everything, so can't really comment authoritatively
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I'm talking out of my posterior as well
<snap-l> The entire jury did agree on the first, and most important, question -- that's 1A, for those of you following with the scorecard -- finding that Google did infringe the overall structure, sequence and organization of Oracle's Java language. However, the jurors were at an impasse on the second part of Question 1, which asked if Google proved that it had made "fair use" of that material or not.
<snap-l> That's asinine
<greg-g> poorly structured question that encourages a certain outcome
<greg-g> and shows a lack of (C) understanding
<snap-l> If this stands, it means making clones of languages / apis could be infringing
<snap-l> greg-g: Exactly.
<snap-l> Google also claims that pending further rulings by Judge Alsup, there is "zero finding of copyright liability" outside of nine lines of code. Google similarly claims that Oracle attributed "no value" to those nine lines in its damages report.
<snap-l> Oh FFS.
<snap-l> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57428612-94/oracle-v-google-jury-returns-partial-verdict-favoring-oracle/
<snap-l> Wow, these questions are pretty leading
<snap-l> 1. As to the compilable code for the 37 Java API packages in question taken as a group:
<snap-l> A. Has Oracle proven that Google has infringed the overall structure, sequence and organization of copyrighted works?
<snap-l> B. Has Google proven that its use of the overall structure, sequence and organization constituted "fair use"?
<snap-l> (IF YOU ANSWER "NO" TO QUESTION 1A, THEN SKIP TO QUESTION NO. 2.)
<greg-g> ugh..... if yes to A then skip B as well
<greg-g> since TO INFRINGE MEANS IT WASN"T A FAIR USE
<snap-l> greg-g: Precisely
<snap-l> And 4A... sheesh
<greg-g> my lord, Unity is a buggy interface
<greg-g> drag something slightly down and it disappears to another workspace
<greg-g> hit some key combo and all windows disappear (minimize)
<greg-g> not know where your windows are since they aren't listed in alt-tab
<greg-g> switching between workspaces forgets which window was on top
<Blazeix> <3 gimp's new single window mode with a tiling wm
<rick_h_> oh yea? I'll have to check that out
<Blazeix> it isn't enabled by default in 2.8, but you can turn it on
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-08
<rick_h_> crap, was checking out the regular rides the local bike group does and the only one I can make is a 45mi weekend ride...ouch!
<jrwren> i did the 2 command lxc thing today. totally sweet. soooo easy and powerful and awesome.
<rick_h_> awesome, I need to play with lxc some
<jrwren> i'm very impressed
<rick_h_> it's getting a lot of use with things lately and growing up quick I think
<jrwren> i just love that its kinda a VM, but not.
<jrwren> so I'm still running on bare metal, but I can do things like have a completely different apt environment and dev env and stuff
<rick_h_> yea, you're supposed to be able to make it a juju target I believe
<rick_h_> and there's a team using lxc containers to parrallelize launchpad tests
<rick_h_> since it's same machine easier to get setup, but allows for diff cpu/cores to do the cranking
<jrwren> oh yeah, lxc deb ships with templates and one of htem is ubuntu-cloud
<jrwren> juju OOTB with it
<brousch> geekers. tried setting up ubuntu for someone and got bit by bug 972823
<rick_h_> doh
<brousch> 11.10 works, so i'll just use that
<CrusaderAD> Hey everyone, need some guru help... anyone have any experience reading from a usb or com port scale (weight) using web technology? Java, PHP...
<brousch> CrusaderAD: the next GRPUG meeting will be covering the pyserial module
<shakes808> MOrning all
<brousch> yo
<CrusaderAD> brousch: when/where is that?
<brousch> monday, may 14 at calvin college in grand rapids
<CrusaderAD> damn, a work day
<shakes808> Did You Know? A polar bear's skin is black. Its fur is not white, but actually clear.
<shakes808> Just thought you all would like to know that :D
<brousch> 6pm
<CrusaderAD> I'd have to leave at 3 or 4... what are they covering? do they have a site?
<brousch> using pyserial with a variety of serial devices
<brousch> http://grpug.org
<jrwren> the other thing cool about lxc is that its not a VM. if testdrive optionally moves to lxc it will highly benefit from memory sharing.
<jrwren> a polar bear's skin is black? really? fur is clear? then why does it look white?
<snap-l> jrwren: Refraction, iirc.
<rick_h_> GGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<brousch> rick_h_++
<brousch> it took me 2 hours to figure out how to bold some text in autocad using c#
<rick_h_> the great coding gods giveth...and they taketh...
<brousch> this is a miserable experience
<shakes808> lol
<jrwren> com interop is always a bitch.
<shakes808> At least you got it to do something :D
<brousch> .net
<jrwren> nah, the .net part is easy.
<jrwren> are you at least using C#4 where you can use optional and default params with your com interop?
<shakes808> How are you liking VS?
<brousch> a crappy thing is i have to start autocad, issue the netload command, select my dll, run my command, then close autocad to modify the project
<brousch> so every little change i want to try requires me to open and close autocad. i've done it like 1000 times trying to bold
<brousch> visual studio is fine. it's the autocad .net api docs and lack of netunload that are miserable
<brousch> i can't believe people actually write whole programs in this thing
<shakes808> C# or the autocad stuff?
<brousch> autocad
<brousch> i used to think autocad addons were way overpriced, now that i see the pain they go through i think they are dirt cheap
<rick_h_> lol
<shakes808> HA HA
<jrwren> rick_h_: list of my tags or tag cloud on bookie, or a long term feature
<jrwren> and... https://bmark.us/recent/jrwren/performance?count=50&page=0  doesn't actually filter by performance
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://bmark.us/jrwren/tags
<jrwren> thanks.
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, the username is backwards again
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us/jrwren/recent/performance
<jrwren> lol include file="bmarks.mako"
<jrwren> aurora hates bookie
<rick_h_> in what url?
 * rick_h_ is running auorora
<jrwren> in the output.
<jrwren> err, lol, in the html
<rick_h_> right, for wihch url?
<rick_h_> I don't see the include line on either link
<jrwren> https://bmark.us/jrwren/tags/regex
<rick_h_> oh right, yea the tags view isn't linked for a reason
<rick_h_> so it's not very functional
<snap-l> Whew, fun dat
<snap-l> day, evne
<snap-l> even
<snap-l> LTSP tonight at MUG. Be there, and be enlightened.
<snap-l> rick_h_: I have something for you as well
<snap-l> MUG: Shawn Powers of Linux Journal fame will be there.
<shakes808> snap-l: can't wait to go
<snap-l> shakes808: WEll, you'll probably want to go before you leave
<shakes808> I will most likely pay my dues after we get paid this week to become an official member :D
<snap-l> Very cool
<shakes808> what?
<snap-l> YOu can do it via Paypal, iird.
<snap-l> iirc.
<shakes808> I don't have a PP account.
<shakes808> Don't you have to pay for one?
<snap-l> no, but you have to agree to Paypal's terms of service.
<snap-l> which can be fun for some folks.
<shakes808> I don't read the TOS, does anyone? .... you all probably do.
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> I probably owe some company my kidneys and pancreas for signing up for things lol
<shakes808> Where is the PP to pay?
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: if you haven't already seen them: http://ruinofremembrance.bandcamp.com/
<snap-l> shakes808: I don't remember what it is offhand.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Checking it out now.
<ColonelPanic001> I only listend to one track, but I liked it
<shakes808> snap-l: Eh, one way or another, MUG will be robbing me of my dues ;)
<snap-l> shakes808: Robbing is such an ugly word
<snap-l> think of it as a pledge
<shakes808> lol
<greg-g> snap-l: being the CC metal community leader, you should reach out to Chimaira re Creative Commons licensing :) http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120503/13344618767/metal-band-chimairas-frontman-talks-diy-versus-label-hell.shtml
<snap-l> greg-g: I'm a fan of Chimaira, so that's not as crazy as it seems. :)
<greg-g> awesome :)
<snap-l> I doubt it'll work, though, since they're ASCAP, but it's worth a shot.
<greg-g> ah, yeah
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> Not seeing an e-mail address either.
<snap-l> Posted it ontwitter,
<snap-l> so we'll see if that generates something
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-09
<shakes808> rick_h_: You want me to get the Pyramid framework right?
<Blazeix_> shakes808: knowing rick_h_, yes.
<shakes808> Thank you sir.
<shakes808> Did you go to dinner with them?\
<Blazeix_> yep, rick_h_ should be back on in 20-30 minutes, probably
<shakes808> How was it?
<shakes808> Did the speaker join you?
<Blazeix_> yeah, it was good. one of the larger groups. maybe around 12 people
<shakes808> Hope fully I will have money next time and join you all
<Blazeix_> had some good conversation about wacky IT problems and network architecture
<Blazeix_> cool, i hope so too
<shakes808> I am looking at the Pyramid site and it is telling me to install a virtual environment and work out of there.
<shakes808> Will it not work if I just install it?
<Blazeix_> i think that will work if you just install it, but it will be easier in the long run if you use virtualenv
<Blazeix_> i recommend reading this if you're getting started with python dev http://mirnazim.org/writings/python-ecosystem-introduction/
<shakes808> Why is that
<Blazeix_> there's a section on virtualenv in that link
<shakes808> alrihg
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> ty
<shakes808> Do you dev in Python?
<Blazeix_> not as my main job, no. but its one of the things i play around with
<shakes808> What is your main job?
<Blazeix_> mostly c#/java/web consulting
<Blazeix_> sometimes other technologies as clients have need
<shakes808> cool
<shakes808> freelance?
<Blazeix_> what do you do?
<Blazeix_> no, for a smaller consulting company
<shakes808> I work with Craig at Morpace. I work in JavaScript on a Proprietary software making dashboards
<shakes808> for clients
<shakes808> If I remember correctly, you are the one that sat down to my left, correct?
<Blazeix_> oh cool, a morpace guy :)
<Blazeix_> yep
<shakes808> Yeah, I have been there since the beginning of March. Before that I was working briefly at an insurance software firm
<shakes808> working in C#
<Blazeix_> i do love modern c#
<shakes808> My only exposure was the few months I was at that firm. I liked it. I got my associates in C++
<shakes808> Wasn't horribly difficult to pick up
<shakes808> For the VM, PyPy?
<shakes808> and am I going to have to download Python again into the VM?
<Blazeix_> you probably already have python on your system, but i think virtualenv may also download a version of python, not sure.
<Blazeix_> you can just walk through the steps on pyramid's website to get you going
<rick_h_> howdy
<rick_h_> yea, the virtualenv will just symlink/copy the ptyhon on your system by default
<rick_h_> don't mess with pypy yet, just something to confuse you
<shakes808> alright
<rick_h_> shakes808: so bring it to CHC tomorrow and I'll get you a project setup right
<shakes808> sounds good. I am tying to get what I can on here so I can spend more time fiddling with code
<rick_h_> sure thing, just realize that there are different 'templates' for apps and picking the right one to start out with will help make life easier
<shakes808> Want to give me a quick run down on what I should install
<rick_h_> maybe start with: http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/humans/setup.html
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> ty
<rick_h_> I've not run through it, but seems like a good start
<rick_h_> some other tutorials there as well: http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/index.html
<shakes808> ty
<shakes808> Does it matter where I set up my directory layout?
<shakes808> Where I am not going to have issues like my www/var at the moment and will still be able to serve them to test them out
<rick_h_> shakes808: no, what I do is create a dir named 'src' in my home directory and put all my code stuff there
<rick_h_> so I'd have /home/xxxx/src/tutorial1 or what not
<widox> twitter fail. http://www.airdemon.net/hacker107.html
<shakes808> alright
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> phew, don't appear to be in the list
<snap-l> Great. Looks like my old LG monitor bit the dirt.
<widox> anyone using Prismatic?
<rick_h_> nope raw rss ftw
<shakes808> I am on step 6 and it says: "bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<widox> I'm trying it out, interesting to just poke around at specific topics
<Blazeix_> one of my friends swears by prismatic now
<greg-g>  you know, sometimes it doesn't hurt to just ask
<greg-g> non sequitor
<snap-l> greg-g: What are we asking?
<greg-g> questions
<Blazeix_> when are we asking them!?
<Blazeix_> ...you all would make terrible protesters.
<greg-g> Blazeix_: lol
<greg-g> NOW!
<greg-g> or maybe tomorrow
<greg-g> we'll see
<greg-g> you know, it depends
<greg-g> I have this bowl to smoke first
<shakes808> I have been looking through documentation and can't find any trouble shooting for the install of Pyramid
<shakes808> Where would I be able to grab 6. $ easy_install pyramid WebTest nose
<Blazeix_> shakes808: i would follow this guide: http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/1.3-branch/narr/install.html
<Blazeix_> that goes more in depth
<Blazeix_> looks like running ez_setup.py will give you easy_install
<snap-l> Yep, bloody LG monitor is toasty
<shakes808> I have easy_install but not the file that it wants to use
<snap-l> rick_h_: Thank you. I think you helped save me from a monitor that was about ready fo go on the fritz.
<Blazeix_> shakes808: are you getting an error?
<shakes808> aaron@Aaron:~/src/tutorial_workspace$ easy_install pyramid WebTest nose
<shakes808> bash: /home/aaron/src/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin/easy_install: /home/aaron/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin/python: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<snap-l> shakes808: It looks like your virtualenv isn't set up properly.
<shakes808> snap-l: would that be step 4 in this tut? http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/humans/setup.html
<shakes808> I put: aaron@Aaron:~/src/tutorial_workspace$ export PATH=/home/aaron/src/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin:$PATH
<Blazeix_> looks like you forgot the 'src' directory in that step, maybe?
<shakes808> bin:
<shakes808> $PATH
<snap-l> Blazeix_: I think that's it.
<shakes808> what should I have put?
<Blazeix_> in that line you posted, you have one as "/home/aaron/src/tutorial_workspace" and the other is "/home/aaron/tutorial_workspace"
<snap-l> also, you can check what is your current path by typing "env | grep PATH"
<shakes808> probably because I made it in my home dir (tutorial_workspace) and then moved it to src after rick told me
<snap-l> You might have several of them in there
<snap-l> at which point you'll want to bring up a new shell, and try step 4+ again
<shakes808> aaron@Aaron:~/src/tutorial_workspace$ env | grep PATH
<shakes808> XDG_SESSION_PATH=/org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Session0
<shakes808> XDG_SEAT_PATH=/org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Seat0
<shakes808> DEFAULTS_PATH=/usr/share/gconf/ubuntu-2d.default.path
<shakes808> PATH=/home/aaron/src/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin:/home/aaron/src/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin:/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin:/usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
<shakes808> MANDATORY_PATH=/usr/share/gconf/ubuntu-2d.mandatory.path
<snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, start a new shell, and run step 4+ again
<shakes808> alright
<snap-l> I think you're working against yourself.
<shakes808> getting the same thing
<snap-l> What does `which easy_install` say?
<shakes808> $ which easy_install
<snap-l> also, did you make sure virtualenv was run with --no-site-packages?
<shakes808> /home/aaron/src/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin/easy_install
<shakes808> aaron@Aaron:~/src/tutorial_workspace$ easy_install pyramid WebTest nose
<shakes808> bash: /home/aaron/src/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin/easy_install: /home/aaron/tutorial_workspace/venv/bin/python: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<shakes808> correct
<shakes808> did it how it was on the site
<shakes808> the install part doesn't have src still
<shakes808> should I delete the folder and restart terminal and try again?
<snap-l> try starting from scratch (delete virtualenv-create directory, follow steps, etc)
<shakes808> Or is it not that easy?
<Blazeix_> maybe it got messed up when you moved the directory. there's probably some config somewhere that's pointing to the old location
<shakes808> alright. To delete that is going to be: rm virtualenv
<Blazeix_> maybe inside easy_install, check the first line of that file
<Blazeix_> i bet it has a hard-coded path
<Blazeix_> yeah, or just rm -r the directory, and start again, your choice
<snap-l> Oh, it was moved? I missed that
<Blazeix_> 00:22:29 by my clock
<snap-l> Blazeix_: You're assuming I didn't skim right past that. :)
<shakes808> what is the easiest way to save the file in vi? instead of sav! [filename]
<snap-l> :w filename
<snap-l> or just :w after opening the file
<shakes808> the first line in there didn't have the /src/
<shakes808> I am going to put it in and see what happens
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> working now
<snap-l> wIt worked?
<shakes808> installing a bunch of stuff
<snap-l> That would be a yes, then
<shakes808> :D
<Chat7924> Yo
<Blazeix_> hi
<shakes808> allo
<lazeras> Whoa
<shakes808> Thank you for the help
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> np
<lazeras> What's good people's?
<lazeras> La de da
<shakes808> lol YAY!
<shakes808> works
<snap-l> Awesome
<shakes808> Thank you again for helping me set it up
<snap-l>   np, glad it's working.
<shakes808> Alright, logging off. See some of you tomorrow night.
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> GOod morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: so your old display went boom?
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure what happened
<snap-l> it won't even power on
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> I think it had performance anxiety.
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> "Oh shit. Now he's going to know I've been slacking this whole time."
<snap-l> And it committed monitor seppuku
<shakes808> Good morning all
<snap-l> g'morning
<shakes808> So the monitor is ded?
<shakes808> http://1saleaday.com/wireless/
<snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, no biggie, though
<snap-l> Just kinda strange how it was working one moment, then suddenly went kaput the next.
<brousch> i see some conversation from last night. you cannot move a virtualenv
<brousch> there is a "portable" virtualenv, but i don't think it's stable
<rick_h_> you can, but it's not advised
<rick_h_> it requires renaming/updating magic paths
<rick_h_> john has a script to help him do that when they used to (hope they stopped) syncying venv's around as a deploy setup
<brousch> hehe
<snap-l> There's a few deployment practices that I would do differently. :)
<snap-l> I understand why they're there, but man...
<shakes808> snap-l: Oh well, just take Diana's when she isn't looking ;)
<snap-l> shakes808: You keep thinking that Diana is someone to be trifled with
<shakes808> brousch: That was the problem. I went in and fixed the PATH for it
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I can assure you this is not true
<shakes808> snap-l: rick_h_: ha ha, we will see.
<snap-l> shakes808: It was nice knowing you.
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> rick_h_: I got to the second tutorial on that page last night and it was blowing up on me. It probably is something stupid, was late when I was doing it, but was the same code as tutorial 1 that was blowing up. Tut 2 was showing unit testing. :D
<shakes808> was blowing up at the ('0.0.0.0', 8080, app) on the 8080
<brousch> do you have something already running on 8080?
<brousch> try a different port, like 8081
<shakes808> I will try that tonight. And nothing should have been running on 8080. In tut1  it was running on 8080 and I stopped it to run tut 2
<shakes808> unless it was just hung up
<brousch> oh wow, wtf. this tab in chromium shows it as using 2.5GB of RAM right now http://www.tedxgrandrapids.org/event-details-2/2012-schedule/
<brousch> crazy
<brousch> heh, for some definition of "good:
<brousch> jacobian : Data point: Ubuntu has gotten good enough that I now know several people who've used it for a year+ without ever touching the terminal.
<snap-l> I'm not sure they're exclusive of one another, but that's good to hear.
<snap-l> I know my dad has come to prefer Ubuntu
<shakes808> At the end of the meeting last night, I heard a lot of complaining about the task bar on the top. I don't understand why that would be an issue, I like that any active window's task bar is on the top of the screen; makes things more unified
<rick_h_> MUG has a lot of old school linux'ers in there
<rick_h_> so you'll hear a lot of griping of new/changed things
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> How many people in the MUG group are DEV?
<snap-l> That and some folks held their nose long enough to get used to GNOME
<snap-l> shakes808: I think you'll find more admins than developers
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> Maybe 3:1 admins to developers?
<shakes808> So maybe a small handfull?
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> I don't know what some folks do, though, so it may be a better radio than I realize
<shakes808> Do you ever do MUG dev projects? Maybe make an OS? MUG-nux :D
<rick_h_> we're the dev crowd :)
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> nice
<rick_h_> well Jim is all dev/business
<snap-l> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/05/bubble-20.html
<jrwren> how was the LTSP presentation last night?
<jrwren> wtf is Mr. Powers doing with it?
<rick_h_> running a school
<jrwren> i love that ASCAP is an anagram for ASPCA
<shakes808> snap-l: what was that sound? Did you bring your drumset in? Sounded like a symbol lol
<snap-l> shakes808: I'm at home, so NFC.
<jrwren> i dev in python as my main job now. YAY
<jrwren> and C too.
<jrwren> no more PHP for me :)
<jrwren> YAY
<rick_h_> yay!
<rick_h_> I bought django books last night :(
<snap-l> rick_h_: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.bluegaspode.squeezeplayer
<jrwren> what books?
<jrwren> I've only read The Definitive Guide "Holovaty and Kaplan-Moss"
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0058CR2HY/ref=docs-os-doi_0
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OYO9SK/ref=docs-os-doi_0
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006P1K0YY/ref=docs-os-doi_0
<shakes808> Why not this one? http://www.amazon.com/Python-Web-Development-Django-ebook/dp/B001ANYCGO/ref=pd_sim_kstore_5?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> while you were at it :D
<brousch> rick_h_: good to have onboard!
<rick_h_> 2008 and not a fan of the publisher
<rick_h_> shakes808: ^
<brousch> you need your old ones back?
<shakes808> Gotchya
<jrwren> oh, $0.99 kindle, but i want dead trees
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, they're small quick things
<rick_h_> free for prime members
<rick_h_> so bonus
<jrwren> 27 pages, 77 pages.
<jrwren> I'm loving this revolution.
<brousch> i hadn't seen those last 2. good find
<rick_h_> right, just small tip after tip
<rick_h_> kind of hard to read, but good info for me
<shakes808> Are Amazon's books DRM-free?
<shakes808> :D
<rick_h_> no, orielly ones are I think
<shakes808> :(
<shakes808> oh
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I have a bunch of books
<shakes808> if you want to go through them, you are more than welcome to them
<shakes808> I haven't really had a chance to go through them myself. I have GBs worth of books
<jrwren> borrow for free with prime.
<jrwren> GAH!!! must have amazon prime!
<rick_h_> prime ftw!
<brousch> also coming some day: http://pragprog.com/book/rvrdj/solid-django
<rick_h_> well I need to start writing django next week so 'some day' won't due for now :P
<brousch> i'm glad you've finally come to your senses
<rick_h_> shush
<jrwren> the greatest strength of django is its simplicity
<jrwren> the greatest weakness of django is its simplicity
<rick_h_> psh
<brousch> i thought the greatest strength of django was it's large community
<shakes808> Thought that it was too big?
<shakes808> libraries
<ColonelPanic001> the greatest weakness of django is pronouncing its name.
<shakes808> HA HA
<jrwren> DeeJay Ango
<jrwren> how else would you say it?
<shakes808> JAYNGO
<shakes808> :D
<jrwren> yo yo yo dJ ango in the house!  getting funky on the microfone!
<shakes808> Drop the D because we are not Aussie lol
<waldo323_> jay and go?
<snap-l> Apparently rick_h_ REALLY wants to use Google Hangouts for Lococast
<shakes808> I never got a response from my comment earlier about having a MUG Dev Project of MUG-nux
<shakes808> I am guessing that is a negative?
<snap-l> I'm not sure what that even means.
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> Make a Linux distro
<snap-l> Um, that's a negative. :)
<shakes808> lol :( ok
<snap-l> I'll support you doing it, but making a distro is a lot of work
<jrwren> the last thing the linux world needs is another distro
<jjesse> +1
<shakes808> I imagine, it wouldn't be over night or what not. My buddy and his dad were making an OS from Assembly. Not sure how far they got in that project, but I think they got the starts of it to work.
<greg-g> but I have this reeeeaaaly great idea!!!
<rick_h_> snap-l: :)
<shakes808> lol
<greg-g> (g'morning, btw)
<jrwren> "an OS from Assembly" can mean a lot of things. Its pretty easy to write some code that x86 or x64 will boot.
<jjesse> good morning greg-g
<snap-l> rick_h_: Thank you. :)
<jrwren> writing your own full TCP/IP stack on top of that and making it run other existing software is something else :)
<shakes808> greg-g: morning
<shakes808> I will have to see how far they got. I know he got the USB to work and some other stuffs
<rick_h_> snap-l: np, that's the one I have <3 it
<snap-l> shakes808: I think the main thing about writing a Linux distro is it isn't a one-time even
<snap-l> event
<snap-l> it's a commitment
<snap-l> shakes808: You heard Jim talking about how he started the LTSP project
<rick_h_> what, stop talking about doing a distro
<rick_h_> enough insanity today
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'll never tell someone they can't do something
<shakes808> snap-l: yeah that it got big quick when Ubuntu and whoever else got on board
<snap-l> If people listened to me, there wouldn't ahve been GNOME or KDE
<shakes808> and that it is too big for him now and he just checks in from time to time
<snap-l> Everyone has their own insanity to pursue
<shakes808> haha
<jrwren> snap-l: really? you were anti-gnome, even in the 0.30-pre time ?
<snap-l> It's not up to the naysayers to tell them what they can't work on
<rick_h_> hah, ok definitely don't take me seriously
<snap-l> jrwren: I figured nobody needed another CDE clone
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> i was happy to have anything that wasn't CDE
<shakes808> I am not suggesting to be the next Ubuntu or major distro. Just something for the club to work on collectively and see where it goes.
<snap-l> jrwren: But that's just it. GNOME and KDE grew to be so much more than just CDE
<snap-l> shakes808: Definitely bring it up if you're interested
<jrwren> shakes808: sounds like that is where your interest lies, I say go for it. Other folks are probably interested in other things.
<snap-l> there may be some takers.
<shakes808> snap-l: lol I am not that seasoned a developer or know how to start something like that, but just thought that it might be something that would be cool to do for the experience and get people thinking outside the box and get some creativity going.
<snap-l> shakes808: If you want to do it, you'll probably have to spearhead it
<shakes808> I am always looking to try something to expand what I could know.
<snap-l> There are some projects for building distros
<shakes808> If that is the case, let me get some other projects of mine started first :D
<snap-l> http://www.tuxradar.com/content/build-your-own-linux-distribution-easy-way
<shakes808> Like Jim said, "Life happened" and he had to step back from it because "it wasn't making him any money"
<shakes808> Let me focus on that first and then I will look more into it ;)
<snap-l> np.
<shakes808> TY for the link. I will look at it later on
<brousch> damnit. C# won't let me do a switch on a Double. come on, VBA let's me do it
<rick_h_> widox Blazeix_: http://cssarrowplease.com/ kind of cool
<rick_h_> widox: you coming to CHC? get a chance to try the colorhug?
<widox> rick_h_: that's pretty slick
<widox> no CHC tonight; have an awards thing to go to for my wife
<rick_h_> ah, party on!
<rick_h_> awards ftw
<widox> I did get my laptop colorhuged though
<rick_h_> how did it go?
<widox> seems ok, I got used to the difference in about a day
<rick_h_> cool
<widox> only thing that's goofy, is the brightness. it seems dimmer all around then it used to
<rick_h_> yea, I think that's intentional
<rick_h_> I think it's more the muted colors
<rick_h_> than physical brightness, but seen the same thing
<widox> yeah, maybe so
<shakes808> CSS stuff is cool :D
<widox> but I like to turn my brightness down like 3 notches, helps battery life
<rick_h_> right
<widox> now, that's a bit to dim
<shakes808> I am logging, see you at CHC if you are going
<rick_h_> greg-g: help!
<Blazeix> rick_h_: ah, useful
<snap-l> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Online-Ordering-System.aspx
<snap-l> Wow, Jamendo is really broken
<greg-g> rick_h_: what?! :)
<jrwren> brousch: technically you can't use == on a float or double type. Any language that lets you is asking for trouble or had better have defined a default epsilon for comparison
<greg-g> snap-l: so, they fixed much of my concerns with the redesign vis a vis CC licneses
<greg-g> I haven't checked search yet, though
<greg-g> snap-l: by "much" I mean they responded to a few specific concerns from CC even though there are a couple more niggles
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I saw that.
<snap-l> UNfortunately, you can't search on anything anymore.
<greg-g> :( :(
<snap-l> They really busted it
<rick_h_> greg-g: so I've got a technical question for you, I'm wrapping some code in a file that's Copyright Google, and trying to split what's ours/theirs. http://paste.mitechie.com/show/aDxVm412A0JupwXeqliP/
<rick_h_> greg-g: is there some particular way I should know to do that? mark it derivative work somehow or something?
<rick_h_> and people out there in the world just need to fall over dead...faith in humanity destroyed in the last hour
<greg-g> snap-l: wait, what? I see the option to search by license
<snap-l> greg-g: Try searching for latest releases in Metal
<snap-l> or search on a band's name.
<snap-l> territory, for instance.
<snap-l> Ah, I think something was broken eaerlier.
<snap-l> Yeah, it's working now
<greg-g> snap-l: I can't find genres easily (if at all)
<greg-g> rick_h_: looking/thinking
<rick_h_> greg-g: end of the day it was brought up to email the issue to legal, not used to that idea
<snap-l> Click on the search box
<rick_h_> greg-g: so I'll wait for the official word, but started out thinking you might have an idea on the right way to denote that kind of inter-mixing
<greg-g> rick_h_: so.. you're just wrapping the like 5 line google analytics drop in code?
<rick_h_> greg-g: well it's 100+ lines with 5 lines of my own
<rick_h_> the ... just so you get the idea, it goes on for a while
<greg-g> huh
<greg-g> can I ask what that google code is/came from?
<rick_h_> google analytics, we got permissionto pull it and serve it from our servers since we have a policy of not loading 3rd party JS
<greg-g> ohhhhhhh
<greg-g> interesting
<rick_h_> now because we're serving it, I want to wrap it in a YUI module so our JS combination systems can effeciently serve that out to users
<greg-g> huh, uhhh, well, I assume legal told them that LP is AGPL :)
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> we got permission from Google
<greg-g> maybe now google analytics is AGPL :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Probably just that little bit of javascript
<rick_h_> so not sure what that involved, but know that we got permission and that's why it's noted that it's Google copyright in the original file I'm wrapping
<greg-g> snap-l: doesn't sound like it, sounds like the part that is loaded from google's servers
<snap-l> greg-g: Was being clueless / facetious. :)
<greg-g> yeah, if they MIT/BSD license that code, or AGPL it, then all is kosher. but it probably can't stay All Rights Reserved
<greg-g> snap-l: :)
<snap-l> greg-g: I think All Rights Reserved is copyright's 'sincerely'
<greg-g> rick_h_: can you send me Canonical Legal's response when you get it? :)
 * greg-g is just curious
<snap-l> have seen that in instances where it clearly isn't 'all rights reserved'
<greg-g> or, what bzr repo should I watch to see the outcome? :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: k
<snap-l> rick_h_: Can we at least wait until 12/21/2012 before humanity drops dead?
<greg-g> yeah, what was that about?
<snap-l> I want to give props to the mayans if they call it.
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> just on the road and had two different idiots try to kill me, both flipped me off and got agressive on me
<greg-g> :( ugh
<greg-g> sorry man
<snap-l> rick_h_: bike-rage?
<rick_h_> and of course Lowes being a bunch of dips...order a mower "7-14 days"
<rick_h_> no, this was in a car
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, that's inexcusable
<greg-g> if it makes you feel any better, a minivan got within 6 inches of me on my ride home the other day. I punched it 4 times. They stopped and looked at me dumbfounded
<rick_h_> so go in today to pick up my mower since I've got a long lawn..."oh, didn't they call you? It's on backorder until the 23rd"
<snap-l> (not that bike-rage is excusable)
<rick_h_> so canceled the order and amazon will have it here friday via Prime free shipping
<greg-g> ok, maybe 10 inches. either way, much less than the 3 feet required by law
<rick_h_> should have done that to start with...but hey...support the local cool Lowes store and all that crap
<rick_h_> taking 29 days what Amz can get to me in 2...not going to work there Lowes
<greg-g> wow, yeah, no way
<rick_h_> what sucks is I had to go in there to get this info. They could have at least called to say "hey, your 7-14 day ordered is bumped to a month now"
<rick_h_> bah, I'm fired up and cranky now.../me pulls back and gets a drink
<snap-l> rick_h_: So you'll get hte fun of having the UPS guy hand you a lawnmower
<snap-l> like we just did with a sewing machine
<snap-l> (Amazon gold box deal)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, at least I'll have a mowed lawn this weekend
<snap-l> true dat
<snap-l> https://shinyplasticbag.com/dragondrop/ <- Linux users got this for free whenever X crashed.
<nixternal> greg-g: i wear the sidi toe spikes on my mtb shoes when out on my cross bike. i taught one driver not to fuck with me when I have those shoes on. punched a total of 9 perfect holes into their door & kept going
<nixternal> wonder how long it took them to realize they had holes on the right side of their car
<rick_h_> ouch
<nixternal> i didn't mean to, but after the 3rd kick to the side, i noticed what i was doing, so i kept going, just with more aggression
<greg-g> nixternal: wow
<greg-g> hey, if I can reach you, you're too close, right? :)
<nixternal> greg-g: that's the way I feel. now most of the time I just ignore it, unless i can catch them at a light
<nixternal> if i am cruising and not training and they do it, i will yell as an attempt to get them to stop & get out of their car. it works from time-to-time
<snap-l> Apparently today is delivery day.
<waldo323_> thats good i hope
<snap-l> Got JoDee's anniverary gift, a replacement power adapter for her computer,
<snap-l> and a camera so rick_h_ can peek at me in my undies.
<waldo323_> ew
<snap-l> snap-lcam
<nixternal> i just threw up a little in my mouth
<nixternal> oh hell, who am i kidding....i just puked everywhere bastard!
<greg-g> nixternal: hey, at least you didn't have to share a room with nixternal at penguicon, oh wait....
<nixternal> hey hey now
<nixternal> if you didn't break into that room, we wouldn't have shared it in the first place
<greg-g> that was fun
<greg-g> "here, hold my beer"
<snap-l> Yay, and VirtualBox works on thislaptop
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: can I make a constructive suggestion?  Never get your significant other computer parts as an anniversary gift.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: It's a marriage-saver when she can power her laptop agai
<waldo323_> what about christmas and birthdays? :)
<snap-l> waldo323_: so many ways to go completely wrong with that
<devinheitmueller> waldo323_: I wouldn't recommend it for birthdays either - I found that one out the hard way.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: You're supposed to keep it in the package, not put it on the package.
<devinheitmueller> uh
 * snap-l gives myself a 5 minute time-out
<snap-l> btw: if anyone wants to save $25 off on a Ting.com phone, please use this offer code: https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/
<snap-l> So far I'm pretty happy with it, although the phone that I got has limited wifi range.
<brousch> damn i hate windows
<brousch> you cannot copy a dll from anetwork drive to the program files and have it work
<brousch> you have to copy it to the desktop, then move it to program files
<snap-l> brousch: THere's probably some behind-the-scenes registering that goes on when you do it that way
<brousch> it is idiotic
<brousch> only cost me 30mins of my day
<brousch> i have a version of my c# project in the hands of a user now, so that's going well
<shakes808> Good day all
<shakes808> can anyone see this?
<rick_h_> yes
<JonEdney> Yep
<shakes808> I registered my name and it wants to do some NickServ thing and it says I need to log in
<JonEdney> shakes808, did you get your NickServ thing fixed?
<shakes808> nope
<JonEdney> You registered your name?
<shakes808> yeah
<JonEdney> You should be able to type /msg NickServ identify PASSWORD
<JonEdney> And that will "log you in"
<shakes808> I do that and it says...
<shakes808> invalid password
<shakes808> but i know it is the pass i set it up with
<shakes808> going to ask for a pass reset
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-10
<shakes808> was able to reset my pass :D Thanks to #freenode
<snap-l> rick_h_: Found it
<snap-l>     # Wrap sys.stdout into a StreamWriter to allow writing unicode.
<snap-l>     sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter(locale.getpreferredencoding())(sys.stdout)
<rick_h_> snap-l: ah! awesome
<rick_h_> ty much for finding that
<snap-l> rick_h_: np.
<snap-l> I knew there was something else I was missing.
<rick_h_> yea, I'm glad I wasn't crazy
<rick_h_> thanks for keeping at it
<rick_h_> I'll give it a try tonight
<snap-l> :q
<shakes808> Morning all
<brousch> yo
<snap-l> Morning
<shakes808> snap-l: are you working from home today?
<shakes808> snap-l: I mean tomorrow, sorry
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3952932
<rick_h_> what have I been saying for years? love it
<rick_h_> is it friday yet? Man I'm toast today
<shakes808> +1 :yes: rick_h_
<shakes808> :( no thumbs up lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: Is it bad that when I see the "def dashboard(request):" example, I think "You should be using sqlalchemy?" ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh geez, this goes right off the rails
<shakes808> :D We should all buy me this :D Then I can do some grilling for you all :D http://www.grillsdirect.com/gas-grills/grills-with-carts/chargrillertriogascharcoalgrillandsmokerwithcover1.cfm
<jrwren> just bought my first kindle books.
<jrwren> those 2  99cent django books that rick_h_ linked yesterday
<rick_h_> jrwren: let the corruption begin
<shakes808> man, no one likes my ideas
<snap-l> shakes808: kickstarter
<shakes808> snap-l: ?
<snap-l> The grill idea.
<snap-l> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition
<snap-l> (for example)
<rick_h_> ummm, gas grill with a smokebox?
<rick_h_> wrong :P
<shakes808> That is pretty cool
<shakes808> snap-l: I am assuming you have and like the game. Isn't that your background?
<snap-l> Yeah, the blueprint was my background at CHC
<snap-l> I've only played it on the computer, and many years after the fact.
<rick_h_> do it right: http://www.sybbq.com/b_6ft_4007.php
<snap-l> http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-st/ogre
<shakes808> rick_h_: Yes, that would be amazing :D
<shakes808> At my last job, the guy who made this worked with me. This is pretty cool, been trying to get some people to try it out. You can play any Tabletop game on it :D http://www.ttoprpg.com/TTopRPG/index.htm
<JonEdney> Windows Update, brb
<snap-l> http://www.250bpm.com/blog:4
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/tggnn/why_should_i_have_written_zeromq_in_c_not_c/
<snap-l> COme to the realization I'm not going to finish this pyweek
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> no more sleep for you!
<rick_h_> go go go
<snap-l> no
<snap-l> The game concept just isn't fun in my mind
<greg-g> :(
<rick_h_> doh, that sounds a bit killer
<rick_h_> pivot!
<snap-l> the only part that's remotely interesting is the interactions with the prof, and that's not a game.
<snap-l> And I don't know enough AI to make his interactions interesting.
<greg-g> well, obviously you need to develop it in LISP
<rick_h_> fortran!
<snap-l> greg-g: But of course.
<greg-g> AI == LISP, right?
<greg-g> I mean, that is what I was taught in CS
<rick_h_> fortWeek
<greg-g> ;)
<greg-g> ok, I'm sorry, but all those parrot gimp'd images on planet.ubuntu.com are getting kind of old :/
 * greg-g hates fun
<rick_h_> hah, I'm with you
<rick_h_> greg-g: so for yesterday's discussion on the copyright
<rick_h_> legal asked questions on how we got/get permission to modify/distribute google code
<rick_h_> I ask higher ups...higher ups say "don't do it that way..."
<rick_h_> and I tell legal sorry for wasting their time
<rick_h_> lagal says "It's ok, it was an interesting question to think about"
<snap-l> rick_h_: Argh. I hate that
<rick_h_> meh, oh well. It's me wanting to squeeze out the most performance and really not worth the work there
<snap-l> It's all fun and games until someone gets a lawyer
<rick_h_> yea, strange to be in that situation I guess
<greg-g> rick_h_: hehe, so, you're making an exception to your "only local js" rule for analytics?
<greg-g> the hehe was mostly re "it was an interesting question to think about" :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: no, so we have a copy of the analytics script, and we edit it so that it can't download/load more JS from google
<rick_h_> so the exception is that Google let us edit out the extra JS calls to google servers
<greg-g> oh
<rick_h_> but then I want to take the results of that, and wrap it in more of our own JS
<rick_h_> which turned into an issue of how to note that file as it's Canonical copyright JS wrapping Google copyright JS
<rick_h_> derivative work, etc?
<rick_h_> but right, the goal is that when you hit launchpad you only get JS from us so that we can say it's secure, non-malicious, etc
<greg-g> ah right
<greg-g> dang analytics
<greg-g> there must be some self-hosted decent analytics thing
<rick_h_> not these days
<rick_h_> with google analytics free, it's hard to motivate to go through the work
<greg-g> well, if legal issues are causing you to do more work....
<greg-g> also, a question I have is... this is JS that is going in LP, right? Google can't just give you (Canonical) a special one-time exception. It has to be AGPL compatible to be committed in LP trunk, right?
<rick_h_> I'm not sure, I mean what is the license of this: https://ssl.google-analytics.com/ga.js
<greg-g> rick_h_: all rights reserved unless otherwise stated
<rick_h_> right, so in our 'copy' we have in our source tree we have added a big Google copyright notice
<rick_h_> but don't think it mentions license
<greg-g> right, so a copyright notice sans licese is All Rights Reserved.
<greg-g> ARR is the default in US law.
<greg-g> unless the creator explicitly does something else, everyone has to ask permission to use it
<rick_h_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/view/head:/lib/canonical/launchpad/icing/google-analytics/ga.js
<rick_h_> right, so evidently we asked for some sort of permission, but I don't have documentation/knowledge on what exactly that discussion was
<greg-g> yeah, personally, I bet Google doesn't know that their ga.js is now AGPL (or, I doubt Google gave Canonical a license to the code via MIT/BSD/Apache/whatever AGPL compat license they want)
<greg-g> I mean, that header is kind of bad for other users of LP code
<rick_h_> right
<greg-g> when I download LP, I am told "this is AGPL" but now I have to go look through every file header for some other notice?
<rick_h_> yea, we have a lot of that stuff tbh, where the code is coded for launchpad.net
<greg-g> and, Google didn't give me permission to use it, so now I am violating copyright law
<greg-g> Canonical is making anyone who uses LP code at risk of copyright infringement
<shakes808> rick_h_: Next week for CHC, do we have the room?
<rick_h_> shakes808: no, not for the next few weeks
<rick_h_> then we have it the rest of the year
<shakes808> Alright,
<shakes808> The set up from last night is how you all like working the tables?
<snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, we've gotten used to it from the previous (Madison Heights) location
<shakes808> alright
<Blazeix> i actually prefer stacking the tables in a column, but that was voted down
<shakes808> I go there pretty much right after work so I am not driving past it to come back to it. I will start pulling tables together just before 8 so all you all have to do is sit and code/discuss stuff
<snap-l> I usually try introducing non-Euclidean geometry, but apparently that has a tendency to introduce very angry elder gods.
<shakes808> Blazeix: if they were stacked, how would we all work? I don't want to be on the bottom of the column. :D
<shakes808> That would just be painful
<Blazeix> crap, i guess that wouldn't work after all
<shakes808> lol
<Blazeix> :P
<shakes808> snap-l: where did you get the linux laptop?
<shakes808> snap-l: I dont know if you responded to my question about where you got your Ubuntu laptop at. Left work, realized it was time and had to pick up my son.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-11
<rick_h_> http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/04/exclusive-a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-facebook-release-engineering/
<rick_h_> hate on facebook, but bittorrent based deploy is badass
<snap-l> shakes808: It's just a regular X120e with some stickers on it
<shakes808> But your Win key is a Ubuntu key... and that would mean that MS didn't get their share
<shakes808> or is that the sticker that you mention
<snap-l> rick_h_: Facebook is definitely one of the leaders in being creative with deployments
<snap-l> shakes808: That's a sticker pack
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> our supply got decimated at the release party
<snap-l> but I'll try to get some more before Ohio Linuxfest
<shakes808> sweet
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> If I am looking for a new laptop, is the thinkpad's that good? I see that most of you have them
<greg-g> shakes808: thinkpad or bust
<jrwren> mac book air or something that sucks
<shakes808> I just got done making a laptop and Holy Hell. Base was 800 and ended up 1624
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> T series
<rick_h_> phew, riding at night is a bit more interesting
<rick_h_> and dammit, lost my 3rd back light flashy thingy
<rick_h_> greg-g: how do you get those things to stay on? Tempted to weld one next time
<greg-g> rick_h_: some of them are annoying. which style do you have? other than zip-ties the next bet is black electrical tape :)
<greg-g> brb
<rick_h_> I have these clip ons and last time I zip tied after it was clipped on, no idea how I lost it tonight
<snap-l> http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1336705207848
<snap-l> If you think Linux audio is a bitch, just thank your lucky stars it doesn't require a papal-ring kiss to make it work.
<shakes808> Good morning all
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> TGIF
<shakes808> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNRsDqnUjXE
<shakes808> http://shirt.woot.com
<shakes808> ^^^^^^^  Is funny
<brousch> snap-l: i got another box filled with hundreds of  CDs in the mail yesterday
<brousch> thanks
<snap-l> brousch: You're welcome. :)
<brousch> i think i got rid of a dozen from the last box
<snap-l> GOing to be a little more slow in distributing these, but if anyone wants them, LMK
<snap-l> brousch: I got rid of all of them.
<snap-l> Penguicon free table.
<brousch> nice
<brousch> free table. good idea. we'll do that at barcampgr
<brousch> tedx was pretty good
<brousch> rick_h_: http://3rdaverad.io/shows/django-podcast/episodes/episode-1/
<rick_h_> ruh roh...
<rick_h_> brousch: yay, Django has bcypt :P
<rick_h_> sorry, having a hard time listening to these guys, background hum, first guy is kind of annoying :/
<brousch> i haven't listened yet. no spilers!
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> nvm, I said nothing
<brousch> bad sound quality can be a bummer
<rick_h_> it's not bad, but ugh
<jrwren> it does?
<jrwren> oh you are making fun.
<rick_h_> jrwren: what does?
<jrwren> django has bcrypt.
<jrwren> i was like, wtf ?
<jrwren> but now I see, you are making fun.
<rick_h_> 1.4 added support for it if you choose to install/get it
<rick_h_> so they *finally* got it was the joke
<rick_h_> been sha-1 I think forever
<rick_h_> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/auth/#using-bcrypt-with-django
<snap-l> rick_h_: Next you'll see then start using sqlalchemy and yui
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> And real MVC
<snap-l> Unicorns will frolick in the forest
 * snap-l reminds himself that it's probably a bad idea to taunt rick_h_ while he's in the middle of Django coding
<rick_h_> not yet, come monday, today I'm killing thousands of lines of doctests with my flaming sword
<snap-l> It's like dousing yourself in sports drinks over the pits of hell.
<snap-l> eventually someone will get lucky and grab your ankle.
<snap-l> and there will be hell to pay.
<snap-l> (no pun intended)
<brousch> bah, humbug
<brousch> rick_h_ is a puppy dog
<snap-l> Cerberus
<rick_h_> woof
<jrwren> real mvc is bullshit.
<jrwren> django is real mvc, they just named things wrong. view function is controller. template is view. DONE
<shakes808> snap-l: are you having problems with pidgin under the work XMPP?
<snap-l> Yeah, they're rebooting the VM that the IM server is on
<shakes808> Oh, ok. lol. All of a sudden I didn't see my list of employees.
<shakes808> Is that affecting our email as well? Are they on the same server?
<snap-l> Not AFAIK
<shakes808> I am going to send you an email and send it back when you recieve it. I have been waiting on a response and haven't received it. It has been a while
<snap-l> My hope isn't that they hosted all of the infra on the same box
<shakes808> This AM flew by, why is the PM going sooooo slooooow?
<jrwren> please don't reply to the [discussion] java email. :)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> now I have to go look
<greg-g> I must no longer be on discussion
<brousch> greg-g: i don't see it either
<jrwren> might have been a mug email
<rick_h_> yea, mug discuss, I don't get it though. Nothing bad in there I guess
<shakes808> jrwren: didn't get any java email. I got a job opening for Linux Engineer.
<jrwren> sorry, it was the discuss mug.org email list, which a few people here are on.
<shakes808> I believe I signed up for both of them.
<shakes808> yeah, discuss and announcements
<shakes808> lol I want my wrongfully sent email lol ;)
<shakes808> speaking of the MUG stuff, has anyone figured out how MUG is going to steal my dues so I can officially become one of you lol
<jrwren> i'm not a mug person, i just lurk on the email list
<snap-l> What's wrong with the mail to the discuss ist?
<devinheitmueller> shakes808: just show up at a meeting and give them $35?
<shakes808> devinheitmueller: Alright, sounds good
<shakes808> Have a good day and weekend all.
<jrwren> snap-l: oracle java is evil and left out of ubuntu for good reason :)
<jrwren> if you want to run java, go run solaris
<jrwren> on sparc!
<greg-g> zing!
 * greg-g has fond memories of late night hacking sessions in the pizza box computer lab at UMN
<brousch> i used to love those machines because while the macintoshes and PCs were full, the Sun machines were unoccupied
<greg-g> all we had in the UMN CS computer labs were solaris machines while I was there, just sparc 5 vs 10 vs something
<greg-g> oh, we may have had an NT lab somewhere, but it was small and never used
<jrwren> was garbage ever since linux was good enough to run netscape, which was around 1994 :)
<greg-g> jrwren: :P
<brousch> hm http://investors.geek.net/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=672629
<brousch> "maximize shareholder value" is always an ominous phrase
<rick_h_> I can't get past the "media" ...what media. I don't see music, video, etc
<rick_h_> hmm, looks a lot like a "Now auctioning...place your bids...place your bids"
<greg-g> rick_h_: yep, selling shit off
<snap-l> The angels have left the building
<greg-g> unrelatedly, Rogue's Juniper Pale Ale is a nice lunch addition on such a beautiful work from home day
<brousch> alcohol at lunch?
<snap-l> In other words, they're shedding off the money-losers, and concentrating on thinkgeek
<greg-g> brousch: yes indeedy
<brousch> do you smoke a bowl for breakfast too?
<brousch> what is this world coming to?!
<snap-l> brousch: Silly, that's uncivilized
<snap-l> Nobody smokes a bowl before breakfast
<greg-g> you'd just eat away the high
<snap-l> they just hop onto the BART, which is powered by buring marajuana and good intentions
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> it's the only bus where you don't mind that it vents inside the cabin
<greg-g> "Hey, could you step on it a little more? We're coming down back here!"
<snap-l> It's "bio-deisel"
<greg-g> I KNEW it!
<greg-g> that's why all those hippy cars (old diesel mercedes) are so wanted around here
<snap-l> It's like a water-bong on wheels
<snap-l> blub blub blub bluub lub
<greg-g> snap-l: are you sure you never lived in SF?
<snap-l> It's not just compost piles they're putting in those tanks
<snap-l> greg-g: Everything I learned about SF I learned from jwz and southpark
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> ANd the only way I think we'd ever go to SF on purpose is during Folsom
<snap-l> because for some reason JoDee wants to see it at some point
<jrwren>  /. is a great example of not keeping up with the times.
<snap-l> jrwren: I beg to differ
<jrwren> you would
<jrwren> didn't you work for them?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l>  /. is a good example of what happens when you try to monetize something that is hard to monetize.
<jrwren> oh yeah, so hard to monitize.
<jrwren> yes somehow EVERY site like that does a great job.
<snap-l> jrwren: I was also a fan of /. before I worked there.
<snap-l> Name two
<jrwren> i was a fan of /. when htey didn't suck.
<jrwren> reddit and digg
<snap-l> reddit is a link participation circlejerk
<jrwren> exactly the same as /.
<snap-l> and digg is a link participation circlejerk with more jerking
<jrwren> exactly the same as /.
<snap-l> bullshit
<jrwren> could you be too close?
<snap-l>  /. stories have to have some content in them outside of "Hey reddit, I just found this in my pants, what is it?"
<greg-g> snap-l: Folsom? Really? Leather is JoDee's thing?
<snap-l> greg-g: I think she just wants to see the spectacle of it all
<greg-g> oh boy is it a spectacle :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yup
<greg-g> snap-l: there is a sub-reddit for that, it's called "gonewild"
 * snap-l has seen photos
<snap-l> The internet is the great puddle of that which cannot be unseen
<jrwren> so she likes to go to City Club too?
<snap-l> That and men's locker rooms at a gym
<snap-l> jrwren: She hates clubs.
<jrwren> but Folsom is ok?
<jrwren> how is the difference?
<greg-g> jrwren: you been to folsom?
<jrwren> nope
<greg-g> the one time I was here when it was happening my parents were in town, we didn't go :)
<greg-g> maybe this summer with the boy, he'll be 7 months, that's plenty old enough for that
<snap-l> jrwren: I have NFC.
<jrwren> I can't imagine it is much different from a detroit Noir Leather show
<greg-g> jrwren: is that one mostly gay men
<greg-g> ?
<jrwren> I'd not say mostly.
<jrwren> but definitely higher than normal proportions
<greg-g> my view on folsom may be scewed by who my friends are here, but I saw a big Bear contingency there based on the photos I saw
<jrwren> sounds about right
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> bears in leather?
<brousch> do they ride unicycles?
<greg-g> brousch: some do. With or without bike seats.
 * brousch is scared to look up bears in leather now
<jrwren> think BJ and the Bear and not Pooh
<brousch> a trucker and a monkey?
<greg-g> bj and the bear is a new one to me
<brousch> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674
<brousch> some good comments
<rick_h_> phew, lawn is done...
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I've not tried the native pull request thing so haven't compared
<rick_h_> end of the day, each project picks their standards
<brousch> i would cry if torvalds called me a moron
<rick_h_> I'd take it as a compliment
<rick_h_> he at least read it
<rick_h_> besides, smart people disagree all the time
<rick_h_> what gets me is the fanboi's on both sides with 0 accomplishments to their name taking sides and ranting on the creator of Git/Linux and the creators of the freaking github
<rick_h_> you should need 10k github points to chime in, where each point is a follower on your repos
<rick_h_> then I'd care about the commenter
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-12
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> not that rick_h_ is elitest or anything ;)
<shakes808> good evening all
<rick_h_> greg-g: hey, I don't quality to give any comments :)
<rick_h_> but note I know to keep out when my opinion doesn't belong
<greg-g> :)
<Blazeix> i hear linus is planning on rewriting kernel.org in django and jquery
<rick_h_> lol
<shakes808> snap-l: are you around tonight?
<shakes808> Regardless, take a listen to this = http://youtu.be/U552ABc4PQM
<snap-l> shakes808: Very cool
<shakes808> :D how about this one :D http://youtu.be/SNfYz6Yw0W8
<snap-l> Not in a good place to listen to it right now
<shakes808> It is pretty funny
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> ..
<shakes808> Are you surrounded by Trekkies? lol
<snap-l> shakes808: No, my wife who is watching Red Dwarf
<shakes808> I don't watch tv, enlighten me on what Red Dwarf is please
<snap-l> British science fiction sitcom
<snap-l> absolutely hysterical
<shakes808> will have to check it out
<shakes808> What is on here for simple image editing?
<snap-l> INstall GIMP
<snap-l> it's not particularly simple, but it's a great image editor
<nixternal> not as great as  mspaint
<snap-l> nixternal: hush
<snap-l> Sure you probably couldnt do rage comics with it, but it's good enough
<shakes808> thank you
<shakes808> My experience with image editing is from MSPaint. lol I am not that graphically incline
<nixternal> hahaha, i knew that is where this would go :p
<JonEdney> I joined the Launchpad LoCo a couple weeks ago, how can I add my name to the Member list for the Ubuntu.com MI Team Wiki?
<shakes808> good night all
<greg-g> JonEdney: I think you did :) (I saw an email from the wiki, I am subscribed to most MichiganTeam pages)
<greg-g> oh man, http://ossmichigan.org/ is now a parked domain?
<brousch> greg-g: there's still http://www.mosg.org/
<JonEdney> greg-g, I was able to figure it out, ty
<brousch> this pisses me off http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-11/facebook-co-founder-saverin-gives-up-u-s-citizenship-before-ipo.html
<JonEdney> Yep.
<JonEdney> Makes me sick to my stomach.
<brousch> i'm gonna renounce my facebook citizenship so he can't make any more money off of me
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> brousch: That's fine. He'll have a lot of fun trying to get it back.
<snap-l> Quite honestly, our tax code is completely broken
<snap-l> and unless we're ready to uproot it and start from scratch, we're going to see behavior like this
<snap-l> Honestly, if they ran the government like public radio, that might be better than taxes.
<snap-l> We need 44 trillion dollars to make our goals for this year, and we're only up to 1 trillion this hour
<JonEdney> o/
<snap-l> Cleaning prior to mother's day. Woo hoo
<JonEdney> My Wife is expecting the "cleaning fairy" today while she is gone and I am home.
<snap-l> JonEdney: Is this expectation bound to happen? :)
<JonEdney> Indeed it is.
<snap-l> Then she is correct. :)
<rick_h_> testing testing testing...keep those codies testing...(something that makes sense for 'rawhide!' here)
<jrwren> GREEN BUILD!
<snap-l> testing testing testing, keep buildbots from resting, keep out the errors' from festrin', buildbot! Clouds in jeeves a-rainin', the buildbot is complainin', but soom they'll be smiling bright.
<snap-l> My test calculatin' the users are all waiting, waiting for the push from my drive.
<snap-l> Get 'em on (MOVE 'EM OUT)  Head 'em up, (RIDE 'EM OUT) BUILDBOT!
<snap-l> All the tests I'm missin', the coverage suite is bitchin'
<snap-l> bitchin at the code that I forgot
<snap-l> if I had some more time I'd really finsih this up. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-13
<snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2012/05/welcome-to-life-the-singularity-ruined-by-lawyers/
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/james-hetfield-wherever-i-may-gnome
<snap-l> http://orphax.bandcamp.com/album/confused <- If any of you like drone / noise, this is probably right up your alley
<snap-l> http://glossolaliarecords.bandcamp.com/album/chernobog-willowbrook <- God I hate this kind of music.
<snap-l> Let it get about a minute in
<snap-l> http://zinumm.bandcamp.com/track/lobishome <- This is pretty cool packaging
<snap-l> http://wilhelmmatthies.bandcamp.com/album/moving-through-dimensions <- no comment
<JonEdney> Hmm.
<snap-l> Actually that last one is probably my personal hell's soundtrack
<snap-l> that and Sonic Youth
<JonEdney> I'll stick to Millie Vanillie.
<snap-l> Now I know you're kidding
<JonEdney> lol
<JonEdney> I listen to a little of everything, excluding them.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXWyiLw8jGk
<snap-l> I swear, no good can come from the tags experimental, noise, or improv on bandcamp
<greg-g> snap-l: hah
<greg-g> snap-l: noise is sometimes some fun stuff ;)
<greg-g> my old boss, CC's VP, listens to noise
<greg-g> (@mlinksva on identi.ca)
<snap-l> sometimes it is, but most of the time I can't cope with it.
<snap-l> And it seems a lot of music gets tagged with industrial that sounds like two dryers humping.
<greg-g> rule 34
<snap-l> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-E_S0cp-1es/S15zbR0t05I/AAAAAAAAC-c/tpgrq0co7yI/s200/robot-chicken-humping-robot.jpg
<snap-l> http://whatsupyasieve.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/humping-robot.jpg?w=490
<snap-l> http://www.behindthehype.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/jesus_hates_creed.jpg
<greg-g> one of these things is not like the other
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> http://fukung.net/v/2457/witchcraft.jpg
<greg-g> uhhh
<jrwren> you don't like Sonic Youth?
<snap-l> jrwren: No, I do not
<rick_h_> ugh
<snap-l> I love it when you think "Oh crap, I found a major bug" when it's all because you didn't save one of the files with the update you're looking for.
<rick_h_> oops
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/1QtQo
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha: Some of the Google employees also requested removing Unity and Gnome 3 and using xmonad instead.
<snap-l> That sounds about right
<snap-l> I think this is a record. Built a complete OMC show in 1:30
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-06
<rick_h_> party party
<jrwren> what kind of party?
<rick_h_> CA kind of party
<rick_h_> in oakland...which actually kinda looks like DTW
<rick_h_> except more people
<jrwren> oh right.
<jrwren> what U doing there?
<rick_h_> sprints this week
<rick_h_> well, something, planning sprints more than coding sprints I guess
<rick_h_> and wondering around some china-town like area
<widox_> I just got back from CA, rick_h_
<rick_h_> widox_: booo!
<brousch> Detroit looked a lot cleaner than I remembered
<rick_h_> widox_: have fun?
<jjesse> jrwren, they were holding the UDS that was canceled
<widox_> yeah, good times
<jjesse> but just w/ Canonical employees and no community
<jrwren> yay detroit!
<tjagoda> Detroit and clean are generally not synonyms
<tjagoda> brousch must have bad glasses =P
<brousch> It was all highways and Cobo Center
<tjagoda> Usually 94 and 696 are littered with poorly cleaned up accidents and exploded truck tires
<brousch> It was clean and light traffic
<snap-l> btw: Meeting in a half hour
<snap-l> might be alittle late because I just got in from mowing lawn
<snap-l> but it'll be a short meeting
<jrwren> downtown is pretty clean.
<jrwren> esp. cobo, jefferson, woodward, washington.
<jrwren> leave those streets and its not so clean.
<snap-l> Going to get the meeting started in 2 minutes
<snap-l> Evening, everyone.
<snap-l> Welcome to the May Ubuntu Michigan Meeting
<snap-l> I completely forgot to set an agenda for this meeting. :)
<snap-l> But there's also little to cover
<snap-l> So ley
<snap-l> So, let's get started.
<snap-l> Who all is on the line?
<snap-l> Feel free to ping as we go along.
<snap-l> First order of business: 13.04 release party
<snap-l> Thanks to everyone who came out to the release party
<snap-l> I understnad there wasn't anything in the program, and for that I apologize
<snap-l> It unfortunately kept a few people who would otherwise have attended from showing up.
<snap-l> Hopefully if we decide to have it again at Penguicon, we'll manage it better
<snap-l> Speaking of Penguicon, this year was quite awesome.
<snap-l> The Hotel was awesome, and the Penguicon folks put on a hell of a show on short notice.
<snap-l> huge kudos to everyone involved.
<snap-l> Anything about the release party that anyone would like t comment on?
<Ahuka> snap-l, did anyone try to contact the Penguicon folks?
<snap-l> Also, did anyone else have a release party in MI?
<waldo323> several people asked me for discs :)
<snap-l> It's squarely on my shoulders that we didn't get on the program
<snap-l> I should have thought to ensure it was on the schedule
<Ahuka> #1 priority: Find someone to blame.
 * waldo323 takes some of it
<Ahuka> We had a good time anyway.
<snap-l> In previous years we've not had anything in the program, but it seems there were an inordinate amount of folks who didn't know where it was
<snap-l> Regardless, it was a great time
<snap-l> and $4 microbrews = A+
<snap-l> although that Percolater porter was F-
<waldo323> apparently the tiki bar was a new idea the week of the con, i think we were originally going to be on the other side of the fireplace right?
<snap-l> http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1754/7178
<snap-l> I thought so, but the Tiki Bar was a great touch
<waldo323> indeed
<snap-l> They really accomidated everyone
<waldo323> except those wanting a dull and very quiet time?
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Anywho, moving on. :)
<snap-l> Re receifed our bug for reapproval
<snap-l> We, rather
<snap-l> and per our discussion last month, I have marked the bug as invalid.
<snap-l> aka: we're not going to shoot for reapproval.
<snap-l> No, that doesn't mean we're not going to shoot for staying active
<snap-l> active != approval
<Ahuka> That is what we said.
<snap-l> but frankly the approval process is cumbersome, and offers no benefit
<waldo323> i'd rather we spent more time being active than working on being approved
<snap-l> So we're committed to being unapproved.
<snap-l> Rebellious. :)
<snap-l> unshackled
<snap-l> We'll see where that lands us, but I'm confident we'll manage to stay awesome.
<snap-l> And hopefully lead by example of how we can still be awesome and not require the approval process
<snap-l> Frankly, it needs to end sooner than later
<snap-l> Any questions for concerns?
<Ahuka> Nope.
<waldo323> not at the moment
<snap-l> OK, that's all I have at the moment
<snap-l> so if there isn't anything else, we'll call this puppy adjourned
<Ahuka> Cool.
<snap-l> Oh, one last thing: all of the physical media is gone from our group
 * waldo323 pets adjourned
<snap-l> so if you want any more discs, um... you'll have to buy it from Canonical
<waldo323> that sounds like a good thing
<snap-l> 'cuz there ain't no more.
<snap-l> yeah, that's a relief
<snap-l> OK, meeting really adjourned. :)
<snap-l> Thank you all for attending. :)
 * waldo323 waves
<snap-l> Off to watch Doctor Who. :)
<waldo323> haha nice
<Wolfger> Did I miss the meeting?
<Wolfger> Oh, yeah, there it is... meeting adjourned 13 minutes ago :-p
<brousch1> I have craploads of old discs
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<brousch>  I had about 25 people at my Kivy talk. That's the biggest crowd yet. They were almost all Python developers and Android users
<snap-l> That's awesome.
<snap-l> Was it recorded?
<brousch> No
<brousch> I want to do it in a 2 parter for PyOhio
<brousch> Pt 1: Intro to Kivy. Pt 2: Kivy on Android
<brousch> 50 minutes isn't enough time to cover both well
<snap-l> Yeah, I could easily see that being the case
<brousch> The worst thing about the conference was that they served asparagus for lunch. Crowded bathrooms and asparagus piss is not pleasant
<jjesse> wow
<jjesse> that just sounds disgustting
<brousch> hehe
<snap-l> That sounds... um... awesome?
<flipsidecreation> I don't understand why they removed some of the keyboard shortcuts such as F3 from nautilis
<brousch> flipsidecreation: The devs don't use them, so neither should you
<flipsidecreation> in 13.04
<flipsidecreation> apparently   Even the change kybd shortcuts are gone.  I have to use a mouse like some sort of Micro$oft user!
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> how we all doing?
<flipsidecreation> *err change view shortcuts
<flipsidecreation> morning rick_h_
<77CAA2O6H> g'morn
<77CAA2O6H> wait, what?
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> I've joined the greg-g west coast contingent of the loco
<rick_h_> morning at lunch
<77CAA2O6H> :)
<77CAA2O6H> but g-damn, what's with my nick
<greg-g> test
<greg-g> whew
<snap-l> received
<brousch> I knew it! greg-g is a bot!
<snap-l> flipsidecreation: I didn't realize that was a shortcut
<snap-l> (F3 in Nautilus)
<snap-l> It likely happened on the GNOME side
<greg-g> brousch: ssshhhhh
<snap-l> Since you can get something similar with tabbed or windowed browsing
<greg-g> rick_h_: so, how busy are ya'll?
<rick_h_> greg-g: just getting started but looks like going to be a fun week :/
<snap-l> I hear they're working on their elevator pitches. :)
<greg-g> I have a general "meet up with jcastro sometime this week" thing in my calendar
<rick_h_> woke up at 4:30am and managed to resleep until 6am so early
<greg-g> might as well add you in there, too ;)
<greg-g> rick_h_: nice
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I did a chat with him on the way here.
<rick_h_> greg-g: told him to make sure he lets me know when he sets it up
<greg-g> I woke up at 6:30, carrie and rowan were still asleep, so I just got up and left for work
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, yea. Sometimes don't fight it, just get up and get going.
<greg-g> rick_h_: awesome, Ryan Lane, our OpenStack guru here will probably join
<rick_h_> greg-g: very cool
<greg-g> snap-l: I missed that: elevator pitches?
<snap-l> !weather
<snap-l> bah
<greg-g> we need a bot
<snap-l> Yeah, apparently they're having problems with the elevator at the hotel?
<jrwren> did someone say openstack guru?
<jrwren> I need one
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> greg-g: so a guy I know is looking for a wikipedia expert for some work? Do you guys do/associate with those kinds?
<greg-g> jrwren: everyone does
<greg-g> snap-l: oh, that sucks
<greg-g> rick_h_: depending on what you mean, yeah
<greg-g> rick_h_: someone to do mediawiki (the software) dev/support/whatever, yeah
<greg-g> rick_h_: someone to help with the wikipedia project content, less so me, but I know who knows
<rick_h_> yea, I think they're trying to do some stuff with their mediawiki stuff
<greg-g> cool yeah
<greg-g> ryan lane did the conversion from moinmoin of the openstack wiki to medaiwiki
<snap-l> Current conditions at Detroit City Airport, MI (KDET)
<snap-l> Last updated May 06, 2013 - 10:53 AM EDT / 2013.05.06 1453 UTC
<snap-l>    Temperature: 61.0 F (16.1 C)
<snap-l>    Relative Humidity: 51%
<snap-l>    Wind: from the E (090 degrees) at 9 MPH (8 KT)
<snap-l>    Sky conditions: clear
<brousch> Thank you Al Roker
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool, shoot me an email with contact info sometime if you get a sec and I'll forward it along.
<greg-g> rick_h_: so, jcastro already asked about the conversion of ubuntu wiki, I don't think Ryan has the time to do another one right now, but, there is a mailing list (heh, sorry) of people who do mediawiki consulting that is a good place to hit up
<greg-g> rick_h_: unless it is something differetnt you're thinking of ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah that'd be cool I guess
<rick_h_> greg-g: it's just a friend. He runs a local company that does home theater installs/etc
<greg-g> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-enterprise
<rick_h_> and we were talking yesterday and he asked if I knew anyone that did mediawiki consulting because they need some help with their stuff
<greg-g> ohhhhh, I see
<rick_h_> so this is non-canonical/etc
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h_> just friend stuff
<greg-g> my bad
<greg-g> that's still a good place to ask
<rick_h_> yea, sounds perfect
 * snap-l makes a reminder to never read the comments on Rolling Stone magazine
<snap-l> especially when it relates to Dave Grohl inducting Rush into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
<snap-l> There are people who think Eric Clapton is a better musician than Rush
<snap-l> And that is not a world I want to live in. ;)
<jrwren> there are people that think the rock and roll hall of fame is important :(
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> Yeah, it's no concern of mine
<snap-l> Man, MySQL needs to die in a fire.
<snap-l> This default to latin-1 shit is for the birds.
<greg-g> MariaDB!
<snap-l> I wish
<greg-g> snap-l: hey, we switched.
<greg-g> I was going to link to our blog post about it, but, heh, our wordpress install was owned today:
<greg-g> http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/04/22/wikipedia-adopts-mariadb/
<greg-g> hopefully that will work later
<greg-g> and its back
<snap-l> greg-g: yeah, I think we're going to switch either to Maria or PostgreSQL
<snap-l> Hopefully PostgreSQL
<snap-l> Also: I will never get tired of receiving CDs in the mail from CC bands.
<snap-l> Back Market Serotonin
<snap-l> http://superstardestroyer.bandcamp.com/album/something-from-nothing
<greg-g> does Banshee not work in 13.04?
<snap-l> It barely works in 12.04
<greg-g> well, it started and played somafm streams on Friday, now it doesn't (I just upgraded today)
<snap-l> m3u streams?
<snap-l> Oh, you mean the radio streams
<greg-g> right, now it "starts" but I can't click anywhere on its UI and get a response
<snap-l> Nice.
<greg-g> regressions are awesome
<greg-g> must have been some extension, I mv'd the addin dir out of the way and it works
<snap-l> I think that's why they made the switch to Rhythmbox
<snap-l> Oh, that's cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-07
<tjagoda> hows 13.04 holding up?
<tjagoda> I'm running Mint
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/05/microsofts-2b-loan-to-dell-buyout-group-involves-new-windows-license-deal/
<snap-l> greg-g: I don't think you'll be suffering with Dell machines much longer.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Haven't run 13.04 yet
<jrwren> 13.04 xubuntu is very nice :)
<jrwren> its like a win3.1/95 ui system, with modern apps!
<rick_h_> 13.04 working here
<snap-l> Good morning
<UnFixed> snap-l: did you see the recent blog post from ting?
<UnFixed> they're allowing used Sprint Airaves. which appear to be selling on ebay for a reasonable price.
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: so you shold present on LXC at pyohio and do stuff about the python api to script a dev environment for a project :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: and I'd be willing to assist some
<greg-g> snap-l: lolorz
<snap-l> OK, who gave out my chain, because everyone seems to be yanking it. ;)
<snap-l> Sheesh. :)
<snap-l> UnFixed: Yeah, I started eyeballing some airraves on Amazon as a result. They're still $100 or so, but they moved from the "maybe someday" to the "someday maybe" list. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: That sounds like a plan
<snap-l> lmorchard: btw: If you're on IRC, I'd like to ask you about presenting at MUG in May. ;)
<snap-l> Apparently our Asterisk presentation will be in Florida next week
<lmorchard> Heya, just saw your G+ msg too
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> Speaking of chain-yanking. :)
<lmorchard> Sure, I can see about throwing something together by then
<lmorchard> I keep saying I want to do more presentations...
<snap-l> And we keep saying we'd like more presentations, so this is pretty symbiotic. ;)
<lmorchard> Maybe I can also show off my completely unnecessary Pi + arduino hookup
<snap-l> lmorchard: That would be cool as well
<snap-l> If you would send me a blurb, I can get that up and elaborate as necessary.
<snap-l> later tonight would be awesome, but tomorrow would work as well.
<lmorchard> Cool, I can do that
<snap-l> awesome. Thank you!
<snap-l> Feel free to send to craig@decafbad.net
<lmorchard> Will do!
<greg-g> jcastro: rick_h_ if you get this during the day: Today and Friday are not good days for me to do things post-work (those are the days I take care of Rowan from 4:30-6pm so Carrie can go do yoga). But, does one of Wed/Thurs work for you two for a "Greg comes over to Oakland" thing?
<greg-g> jcastro: also, Ryan Lane is in New Orleans all this week, so he won't be joining us :/
<greg-g> I always hate typing New Orleans, because it is so counter to how I pronounce it "nawlens"
<jrwren> every time you mention oakland I think Oakland Co. MI
<UnFixed> snap-l: i just went ahead and bought a phone connect 2 for ~30.
<UnFixed> since its also on the whitelist for byod
<snap-l> UnFixed: Cool. I'd love to know what you think of it.
<UnFixed> wil do
<UnFixed> will*
<greg-g> ahhh, have my Drone Zone back (the stream URL i had in banshee was no longer in use, finally took the 45 seconds to update it, and the 25 seconds to talk about it here)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> snap-l: cool, let's chat when I get back. There's some cool stuff I saw in a lxc 'knowledge share' here
<snap-l> Coolness
<snap-l> btw: You're not coming back until next week, right?
<snap-l> ie: I'll be stewarding the CHC (I think you asked me this already, but making sure)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, not back until the weekend
<snap-l> no worries
<rick_h_> appreciate it if you can do CHC stuff.
<snap-l> Having fun down there?
<rick_h_> sorry, didn't mention it before tbh
<snap-l> Oh, definitely.
<rick_h_> heh, not yet
<snap-l> no worries, I think you did mention it
<rick_h_> got crushed yesterday and working on making today better. We'll see.
<snap-l> ugh. Lots of work, or lots of finger pointing?
<rick_h_> but weather is nice. if only windows opened in the hotel
<rick_h_> heh, I'll have to tell the story when I get back. Kind of funny if you weren't in the room
<snap-l> Oh that sounds fun
<snap-l> "It was really funny if your nuts weren't in a vice"
<snap-l> t schedule 514 next tuesday <- this schedule plugin is awesome
<rick_h_> for todo.txt?
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> uses date as the parser, so it's really powerful
<snap-l> https://github.com/ginatrapani/todo.txt-cli/wiki/Todo.sh-Add-on-Directory#wiki-schedule
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> greg-g: k, I think thurs they're working on a team dinner thing that'd be hard to get out of myself
<greg-g> guh
<greg-g> wednesday possible?
<rick_h_> greg-g: but I think wed is cool
<greg-g> cool
<rick_h_> greg-g: not sure on jcastro's side
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> jcastro: how's wednesday for a "Greg comes across the bay" event?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-08
<Chat8220> z)
<Chat8220> ??
<shakes808> Hello all!
<shakes808> I had a question about the IRC Channel. Why would there be a limit to how many people can get into a channel? I made a channel for work to help coordinate our efforts to deploy code and some people were getting disconnection notices and unable to join the channel when it was up
<shakes808> others had to leave to allow new people in
<shakes808> All this is under 10 people
<shakes808> Is this channel being hosted / served somewhere and we are connected to it that way?
<rick_h_> shakes808: well this channel is hosted by a giant network freenode which manages all that
<rick_h_> shakes808: where was your irc channel hosted?
<shakes808> I am using the website webchat.freenode.net and just /j a channel that I wanted the channel named
<shakes808> I know that probably isn't the right way
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> just trying things to make work life easier
<shakes808> If this goes over well I was going to try to do it the right way.
<shakes808> There are big parts of our code that isn't versioned
<shakes808> So we have to go about pushing code in some interesting ways
<rick_h_> ouch
<shakes808> yeah
<shakes808> They are using SVN for some of the stuff and we are just doing WinMerge for the other stuff with screen sharing and brief talks before we leave for the day so we know what needs to be pushed
<shakes808> :\
<shakes808> It sucks but gotta do what will work for now
<shakes808> brb there is an issue with something that was pushed
<shakes808> back
<shakes808> sorry about that
<shakes808> rick_h_: I do notice the @ChanServ in most rooms
<shakes808> is that the server staying in the room?
<rick_h_> shakes808: so that's a bot basically that allows for a room to be auth'd
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> Setting this all up, is it hard? When I search the all knowning Googles, I find things like cygwin and other IRC Server stuffs. If I download that freeware or something like it will there be some kind of guide to make it work or no?
<greg-g> this is my job: http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/39557071088/enforcing-change-windows
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
<snap-l> There's a way to set the limit on a channel
<snap-l> It's mode +l or something like that
<snap-l> Would have to look it up
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Modes
<snap-l> Yeah, it's either +l [number] or -l, iirc
<snap-l> http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4628
<snap-l> http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/34231/mobile-developer-stack-exchange-stack-exchange <- Android and iOS developers wanted
<snap-l> interesting that it showed up in my python job search feed.
<snap-l> since there isn't a lick of Python in that posting
<snap-l> It's interesting to read a review of a band that I played on Open Metalcast in Prog magazine. :)
<snap-l> Black Market Serotonin
<jrwren> snap-l: re: mug meeting - the secret is that there is nothing new in 13.04 :)
<jrwren> shakes is gone, my bet is that there is a limit to how many webchat users can be in the same channel from same ip address.
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Mornin
<snap-l> jrwren: I find that hard to believe. :)
<greg-g> once you install cygwin to run some web software (that, like all good web software is made to run on linux) why don't you just skip Windows and install linux?
<snap-l> greg-g: I'll never understand that.
<snap-l> cygwin is like the Hot Topic of Linux
<greg-g> hahaha
<greg-g> you know what I don't care about from a service I used: that they raise yet another freaking round of invester money
<snap-l> Which service?
<greg-g> Dwolla
<greg-g> They got some Andressen Horowitz money, whatever
<snap-l> I'm not sure why the hate for them raising money?
<greg-g> just the email
<greg-g> Like, did you know as an eventbrite user that they have recently secured their round F (or some shit) funding?
<greg-g> no, you just use their service and are happy
<greg-g> (I only know about eventbrite because I know a senior dev there)
<snap-l> Oh, yeah, that's not something you need to send out
<jrwren> why do I care that they raised money. I don't!
<jrwren> i might care if they are profitable, because then I can know that they will be around for a while.
<jrwren> is ack the search program not packaged for ubuntu?
<jrwren> or is the package named something strange?
<jrwren> there is an ack in universe, but it is a kanji converter or something
 * greg-g shrugs
<jrwren> ack-grep is the package name.
<greg-g> ugh, seriously, the version of git-annex in Raring is still too old to have the webapp option? It's in Debian STABLE for god's sake ;)
<jrwren> for anything outside of the mainstream, ubuntu has old packages.
<greg-g> ugh, and the one PPA with updated packages doesn't have raring support
<snap-l> I really wish Slashdot would give up on their "Business Intelligence" site
<snap-l> I'm not sure Slashdot BI really conveys the proper message
<snap-l> Sounds like a polyamorous dating site
<greg-g> or bowel issues, which I think of whenever I think of /. regardless
<snap-l> Harsh but fair
<greg-g> :) sorry
<greg-g> It was mostly a joke, but also, like all good jokes, has some truth to it
<snap-l> Yeah, Slashdt and I go back a ways
<snap-l> but I agree: it's... what's the word?
<snap-l> moribund?
<greg-g> bound?
<greg-g> no, you were right
<snap-l> "being in a state of inactivity or obsolescence"
<greg-g> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moribund
<greg-g> approaching death
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Yeah, there's not a lot of vitality there
<greg-g> it doesn't seem like it, does it
<greg-g> kind of sad
<snap-l> I was subscribed to the feeds for the longest time out of habit
<snap-l> and I follow them on G+
<snap-l> I dunno... I'm feeling a big purge coming on
<snap-l> putting things to bed that don't particularly excite me
<jrwren> snap-l: /. should just go away. BI site is no different than main site.
<jrwren>  /. was awesome when it started and had a good run of a few years and hasn't been useful or relevant for many more years than that :(
<rick_h_> bah, running unity FML
<greg-g> lol
<brousch> rick_h_: Die in a fire!
<rick_h_> brousch: I'm trying but the tablecloth won't ignite
<Blazeix> this seems like a cool resource: http://www.atlassian.com/git
<greg-g> I stopped reading at "atlassian.com"
<brousch> greg-g: booooo
<brousch> I like bitbucket
<fitztrev> I just setup Gitlab at work last week. pretty good so far
<Blazeix> greg-g: yeah, very corporate source, but seems to still be good info
<Blazeix> and corporate-y might be a plus if you're trying to get a company to use git
 * greg-g puts on jrwren hat
<greg-g> I would never work for any company that needed that
 * greg-g takes it off
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> It's unfortunate that I've worked in places that believe stuff Gartner Group put out
<snap-l> These were also the places that liked to show off their JD Power and Associates and Consumer Reports awards.
<greg-g> :)
<widox> fitztrev: I've played with Gitlab a bit, seems like a good alternative to an in-house GitHub
<jrwren> greg-g: well done!
<jrwren> that said, gitlab looks like a sweet alternative to github
<jrwren> snap-l: IMO doing the opposite of what gartner group puts out is almost always the right thing.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Apparently there's talk that Drew and Mike are being replaced by Chuck and The Freak
<snap-l> Er, Dave and Chuck the Freak
<snap-l> Apparently the D&CtF fans are rather excited
<jrwren> i care not. radio shock jocks are of no interest.
<flipsidecreation> Drew & Mike were ready for retirement
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-09
<jrwren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-May/037074.html
<mathomastech> Why is the table wrong!
<brousch> These damn bugs on launchpad hang around forever! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monodevelop/+bug/244683
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Damn allergies.
<brousch> Get a real immune system, wuss!
<snap-l> Well, I can take allergy medicine and alternate between bitchy and moody, or I can try to bear through it.
<snap-l> Not sure which is worse.
<brousch> Which will affect me less?
<brousch> Has anyone tried Ubuntu Touch?
<snap-l> I know one of the guys from CHC loaded it
<snap-l> it seemed too early for normal use.
<snap-l> note: that was about amonth ago
<brousch> The Canonicaloids aren't dog-fooding it?
<snap-l> That came out of the last UDS (more dogfood)
<snap-l> or sprints, rather
<rick_h_> brousch: http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2013/05/woof-woof.html
<brousch> rick_h_: Mark Shuttleworth or Mark Ramm?
<snap-l> rick_h_: fOR A MOMENT i THOUGHT YOU STARTED A NEW BLOG
<snap-l> Gah, sorry about tiat
<brousch> snap-l: I did too
<rick_h_> brousch: guessing shuttleworth as ramm has nadda to do with phone/client
<greg-g> jack hammering, thing #41512 that sucks about working downtown
<greg-g> slightly cancelled out by access to a variety of good food
<snap-l> Nothing some great metal music couldn't cure.
<flipsidecreation> I am sure there is some dub-step mix that would blend nicely with jack hammering
<snap-l> I learned something at Penguicon regarding Dubstep
<snap-l> I fucking hate dubstep
<flipsidecreation> wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub
<flipsidecreation> not very clever
<snap-l> Sounds like a fruit-fucker getting shocked in the nads at 60Hz
<flipsidecreation> snap-l: accutate
<jrwren> good headphones!
<jrwren> snap-l: i'm surprised you didn't already know that you hate dubstep
<snap-l> jrwren: I keep giving it a shot, much like bluegrass
<snap-l> I like 1 1/2 songs of bluegrass
<snap-l> First song: Why don't I listen to more of this
<snap-l> second song, half-way: Holy fuck, I can't turn this off quickly enough
<flipsidecreation> only bluegrass songs I kinda liked were from the movie "O brother where art thou"
<jrwren> vim camelcasemotion FTW!
<jrwren> snap-l: what bluegrass?
<jrwren> I love come bluegrass, other I don't like so much.
<jrwren> Nickel Creek's discography is excellent.
<brousch> App idea. Picks music with a beat that matches ambient sounds at the time
<snap-l> I like the instrumental stuff
<snap-l> but man, someone starts bluegrass singing, and I want to beat someone senseless with a bango
<snap-l> banjo, even
<jrwren> Alison Krauss's first 3 albums are excellent.
<jrwren> i don't like the country twang sound of some bluegrass, including vox.
<jrwren> but when the vox aren't country twang reminicent, I often like them.
<snap-l> Yeah, i can't stand twang
<jrwren> did you like Steve Martin's The Crow New Songs for the 5-String Banjo ?
<jrwren> its mostly instrumental
<snap-l> Honestly I have yet to hear it
 * greg-g likes bluegrass
<snap-l> It's on my eventually listen to it list.
<jrwren> give it a listen, it is good.
<jrwren> and IMO Alison Krauss's first 3 albums define new-bluegrass
<jrwren> which left that twang behind.
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't mind instrumental bluegrass
<jrwren> although 1 song per album might have that nasty twang.
<snap-l> it's very much like Thrash picking
<jrwren> what kind do you like greg-g ?
<greg-g> I like a lot of it, honestly
<snap-l> Umphrey's McGee's Anchor Drops has a twangy song in the middle of it
<greg-g> even some twangy stuff, like "outlaw country" (eg: Willie, Kris Kristopherson, etc)
<brousch> snap-l: We agree on this
<brousch> Bluegrass is good as long as it's fast and no one is singing
<jrwren> i even like some of the slow ones.
<flipsidecreation> yup
<brousch> No
<jrwren> and because of this conversation I shall transition from listening to Nightwish to Punch Brothers.
<snap-l> I want to know when Kris Kristopherson became "outlaw" anything
 * greg-g is still listening to Drone Zone, might switch to Boot Liquor sometime
<snap-l> I mean, by this definition, Ray Stevens should be Outlaw Country. ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: is drone zone what it sounds like?
<snap-l> 'aint seeing it.
<jrwren> i'm just realizing I like Xandria way more than I like Nightwish.
<rick_h_> greg-g: https://ec2-23-20-230-72.compute-1.amazonaws.com/sidebar/precise/mediawiki-8/ is a better view vs my phone last night
<brousch> greg-g: Want me to record the sound of my server fans so you can listen to it like music?
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, from SomaFM
<jrwren> take a soma and drone.
<greg-g> rick_h_: neat. btw, this is the url I voiced to uhhh, marco and the other dude last night re all of our puppet configs: https://noc.wikimedia.org/
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool
<rick_h_> greg-g: passed along
<greg-g> thankya
<greg-g> rick_h_: wait, am I able to actually spin up instances with this url?
<greg-g> "addr-153.example.com" suggests not, but just making sure because I did 100 mediawikis and it says "started" next to all of them :)
 * brousch starts up 10,000 mediawikis!
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g destroys them
<brousch> I will turn all of Amazon into mediawikis!
<rick_h_> greg-g: not currently. It's 'demo' environment.
<greg-g> whew
<rick_h_> greg-g: now if you were to juju  boostrap into ec2, and deploy this gui, you could use the gui to deploy in there
<rick_h_> greg-g: oh...heh yea I guess you can
<rick_h_> yea, this is hidden demo version so yea please be kind shouldn't have lost it out
<greg-g> I sure hope I didn't rack up a lot of charges for you with the 200 things I "deployed"
<rick_h_> greg-g: well, .08 per and it's on another guy's card atm so not me :)
<greg-g> 100 mw, 50 memcache, 50 mysql, just to see what the UI was like
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> heh, yea my bad not warning you on that
<rick_h_> oh well, no one knows it was me :)
<snap-l> save for the log bot
<rick_h_> curses!
<rick_h_> well they have to know to grep this file
<snap-l> Isn't that what the logbot is for?
<snap-l> instagrep to Mark Shuttleworth's ears
 * greg-g just made Canonical insolvent
<snap-l> guess they'll have to burn down a few orphanages just to make payroll
<snap-l> tragic
<rick_h_> hey, that's my check you're talking about there
<snap-l> Sadly I think burning down orphanages is the least likely to get Canonical on the front page of reddit
<snap-l> "Changes to X" =blarghahharhasfdhashasfdsdf
<snap-l> "Changes to packaging" = blarghahaharahrahdfasdhasd
<snap-l> "Burned down orphanages" = *crickets*
<brousch> When is Canonical going to fork the kernel in a backwards-incompatible way?
<snap-l> I wish they'd just burn down orphanages instead of making an ABI change
<greg-g> brousch: they haven't?
<brousch> greg-g: I haven't heard Linus cursing at Canonical yet, so i assume not
<greg-g> I'm sure he's flipped them off once or twice
<greg-g> but, he's probably flipped me off once or twice, too
<snap-l> How do I get into this esteemed club?
<greg-g> snap-l: You have an opinion.
<snap-l> greg-g: I'll need to work on that. Any book syou can recommend to get an opinion? :)
<greg-g> no opinion
<snap-l> greg-g: No opinion eh?
<snap-l> http://ur1.ca/drs9u <- greg-g
<flipsidecreation> HA!
<greg-g> :P
<flipsidecreation> Animated version is better http://i.imgur.com/Fna6i.gif
<flipsidecreation> and this http://i.imgur.com/zs1ve.png
<snap-l> That last one looks freaky
<snap-l> like painting in a Mexican restaurant freaky
<flipsidecreation> yeah, for sure
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-10
<snap-l> dammit, someone already registered some ideas I had for domain names
<snap-l> shouldiwearpants.com and amiwearingpants.com
<snap-l> Dammit, and hungerpan.gs is already taken
<snap-l> And so is psychic.tv
<snap-l> Whiat is this world coming to?
<brousch> The world is squatted
<snap-l> Just stripped my nook books of DRM
<snap-l> piss-easy
<snap-l> Should Microsoft make good on buying and destroying Nook, I'm taking the content with me to another device.
<snap-l> Be it a Tablet or what, I don't care.
<rick_h_> evening
<rick_h_> snap-l: was going to ask you about the nook stuff
<rick_h_> you can have a windows8 tablet book reader
<greg-g> rick_h_: jcastro btw, thanks much for picking up the tab(s) last night. :-)
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://store.yubico.com/store/catalog/index.php?cPath=20
<rick_h_> greg-g: np, thanks for the good times
<snap-l> rick_h_: The same day you have a non-tiling window manager is the day I'll gladly use a Windows 8 tablet book reader.
<snap-l> Also saw the Microsoft Store they're building in Sommerset.
<snap-l> I wish them every opportunity to waste money.
<brousch> rick_h_: Now you need to do it just for snap-l
<snap-l> heh
<fitztrev> grand opening june 28th with kelly clarkson performing live
<fitztrev> ha
<jrwren> ugh
<flipsidecreation> no ugh, its friday
<jrwren> FRIDAY< FRIDAY< GOTTA GET DOWN ON FRIDAY
<flipsidecreation> yup@
<flipsidecreation> yup!
<snap-l> Well, that was fun
<snap-l> apparently the USB backplane my UPS was connected to isn't working
<snap-l> so I moved it, and it suddenly declared the UPS was critically low
<snap-l> *poof*
<jrwren> :(
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, been on unity a lot this week :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: And?
<rick_h_> snap-l: and it's non-tiling :P
<greg-g> and he's going to kill someone
<greg-g> I think is the answer snap-l was going for
<snap-l> Yeah, I should have quantified it better
<greg-g> snap-l: help me remember cellphone stupidness: sprint/ting uses XYZ for it's standard, in the Europe they use...?
<snap-l> sprint / Verizon use CDMA
<snap-l> AT&T / TMo use GSM
<snap-l> GSM is the European standard
<snap-l> greg-g: ^^
<greg-g> snap-l: so I don't get to use my phone in Amsterdam, then, at all, right?
<greg-g> snap-l: I guess I can use WIFI in various places, but that's kind of lame
<greg-g> oh well
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, unfortunately the Ting phone is domestic
<snap-l> but, you could get a burner for cheap in Amsterdam
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I bought a CDMA mifi unit and when I went to copenhagen got a local sim and hooked my phone up to the mifi around town
<greg-g> rick_h_: ah, yeah
<UnFixed> even if you got a gsm phone, it would still have to be unlocked to use internationally
<UnFixed> also
<UnFixed> my sprint home connect should have been delivered today. need to head home and try it.
<jrwren> what does that do?
<snap-l> The home connect? Allows you to hook landline phones to cell service.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-11
<yuval> Good evening.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h__> howdy party people
<tony-smlr> We are live Audio only
<rick_h__> ugh, not going to make it until bed time
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-12
<jjesse> jcastro, where you in DTW  this evening in the Delta baggage area?  if not you have a doppleganger
<snap-l> Good morning
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> jcastro: tell her that her nurosis it driving you nurotic :)
<snap-l> evening
<mathomastech> Hey Everyone! I need a bit of help with something on github. If anyones got a few minutes, can you msg me on G+/Gchat? https://plus.google.com/u/0/103260909450809151378/posts
<Blazeix> mathomastech: have a gist/github link?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-05
<cmaloney> Hello everyone
<cmaloney> I know we're in the post penguicon hangover period
<rick_h_> party party
<cmaloney> But wanted to still have our meeting even though it's mostly to highlight what happened. :)
<cmaloney> First off, thank you to everyone who came out to the Penguicon release party
<cmaloney> It was awesome, and I'll be posting pics from it up online
<cmaloney> I hope you all had a great time
<cmaloney> I think 14.04 will be considered on eof the better releases.
<cmaloney> I gave ouot all of the discs that we had at Penguicon so if you're looking to get a disc please email me and I'll send you one of the "second stash" discs. :)
<cmaloney> I already have one request in
<cmaloney> But yeah, thank you again to the folks who came out and the folks who wanted to be there. :)
<cmaloney> Any feedback on the release party?
<cmaloney> No worries. If anyone has any feedback on the release party please feel free to post tot eh mailing list.
<cmaloney> And again, if you would like some DVD-Roms please send me an email.
<cmaloney> Anything else anyone would like to cover?
<mrgoodcat> Hi cmaloney. U aren't talking to yourself
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I'm an only child. I'm used to it. :)
<_stink_> what was the turnout to the party?
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlLhuVz37uk
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/xtRNma - Mark Shreeve (Live At Emma '94) - 'Darkness Comes' - YouTube
<cmaloney> Not entirely sure. Over 20 folks
<cmaloney> but they rotated through
<cmaloney> jcastro was there, which was awesome.
<cmaloney> as was Waldo, Krondor
<cmaloney> lmorchard
<cmaloney> heh, I wasn't trying to foist synthpop on you all
<cmaloney> was lookin gfor something more like this:
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbVwhMZWI0U
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/lShCzA - REDSHIFT at HJ2 in UK - Excerpt 2 - YouTube
<cmaloney> Those racks in back are hypnotic
<cmaloney> Anywho, if there's nothing else I'm OK with closing the meeting for now
<cmaloney> There's not a whole lot planned other than the upcoming meetings
<cmaloney> k, thanks everyone for coming out.
 * tjagoda was at the release party 
<tjagoda> such release, much good
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> cmaloney: Sorry I missed the meeting last night. I was watching Sharknado
<rick_h_> lol, well now we know where the loco is. Below sharknado
<cmaloney> nice.
<brousch> I would normally watchit with a tablet in my hand, but instead I got a beer
<cmaloney> Not helping
<rick_h_> wow https://twitter.com/AthertonKD/status/463060349659660288
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/ks4VQx - Twitter / AthertonKD: The future is strange and ...
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: not quite sure what was going on with that github issue. i did most of that work late at night while drinking. but I do know for sure that the issue is a real issue and exists
<mrgoodcat> just not sure what's causing it
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: which one is this? sorry lots of issues flying by lately
<mrgoodcat> ummm hang on
<mrgoodcat> pull #451 issue #449
<bookiebot> closed - fixed 449 and added a test - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/pull/451
<bookiebot> open - /:username/bmarks/search/:terms appears to be broken - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/449
<mrgoodcat> i closed the pull because after rebasing my commits i realized I had actually worked almost in a full circle back to where i started
<ColonelPanic001> welp.
<ColonelPanic001> I could have done work today
<ColonelPanic001> instead I'm trying to set up todotxt
<ColonelPanic001> thanks, cmaloney.
<ColonelPanic001> reeeeal productive
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: You're welcome. :)
<brousch> Step 1 of GTD: Burn this manual and just do the damn thing!
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's pathetic re: the rhinos.
<ColonelPanic001> haha, oops. The config file does not honor "~"
<ColonelPanic001> it created /home/mike/~/Dropbox/
<cmaloney> Hah
<ColonelPanic001> I was so confused, couldn't find it
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> hah on the "thanks cmaloney"
<rick_h_> boooo on the lack of it doing a user based abspath to figure out ~
<ColonelPanic001> doing "rm -rf "./~" made me nervous
<ColonelPanic001> p.s. thanks for posting the slides
<ColonelPanic001> naturally they're in python. :P
<ColonelPanic001> of course.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: but of course. :)
<cmaloney> Blame me being at Pycon a few weeks beforehand
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<mrgoodcat> ColonelPanic001: same here execpt i'm doing this instead of work https://github.com/kvalle/diy-lisp
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/dCY3dP - kvalle/diy-lisp Â· GitHub
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<mrgoodcat> AWWWWW YISS
<mrgoodcat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/O07cRtXO
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/B1MZ9p - Pastebin: O07cRtXO | IRCCloud
<mrgoodcat> gave that bitch an abstract syntax tree
<mrgoodcat> bitches love abstract syntax trees
<cmaloney> Checked my work mail. Automated process sent out a note that a file was missing
<rick_h_> yay?
<cmaloney> They put in the file, and the process completed, yet I got another note saying "Craig is out and this thing says bad things will happen Waaaaah!"
<cmaloney> Apparently one of my new life-skills will need to be writing threatening letters that spark action but don't elicit panic.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<greg-g> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/05/05/wikimedia-foundation-selects-cyrusone-in-dallas-as-new-data-center/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/ZUdz4i - Wikimedia Foundation selects CyrusOne in Dallas as new data center â Wikimedia blog
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> moar power!
<greg-g> :) :)
<mrgoodcat> full load at wikimedia must be pretty badass load
<greg-g> top 4 or 5 site, depending on how you count/the week.
<mrgoodcat> yea...
<mrgoodcat> must be quite the datacenter to handle the entire load
<greg-g> http://reportcard.wmflabs.org/#
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/7DbRzm - Limn
<greg-g> I can't disclose gbit/sec numbers or anything like that, unfortunately :)
<rick_h_> :P but but open
<mrgoodcat> rly? i thought wikimedia was supposed to be all open
<mrgoodcat> how is gbit/sec proprietary?
<mrgoodcat> you can give me visits breakdown by region but not gbit/sec? seems a bit backwards
<greg-g> A) we disclose everything in our setup other than our passwords/private ssl certs (and the maxmind geoip lookup database, which is proprietary but the only real choice)
<greg-g> B) re bandwidth: DOS related reasons
<rick_h_> ah good stuff
<greg-g> B-subpoint-1) But you can look up our peering relationships and do some math, though that doesn't tell you our transit
<mrgoodcat> not worth it
<greg-g> https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/?r=operations/puppet.git
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/0GoSTv - operations/puppet.git - Wikimedia
<mrgoodcat> what happened in july 2008 in china?
<mrgoodcat> did wiki get banned?
<greg-g> yeah, it happens
<mrgoodcat> for most of a single month it looks like
<greg-g> they block specific pages (Tinnanman square etc)
<mrgoodcat> hopefully they spell it like that when they try to block it
<greg-g> well, take those numbers with a huge grain of salt
<mrgoodcat> right
<greg-g> those aren't varnich/apache numbers, they're via comscore
<greg-g> varnish
<greg-g> https://gdash.wikimedia.org/dashboards/reqsum/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/5JLzkx - WMF stats
<mrgoodcat> wonder if i visited a random 1000 pages and calculated the average size per page would i be able to guess gbit numbers within any reasonable tolerance.....
<mrgoodcat> not worth it
<mrgoodcat> time to go home
<greg-g> no :)
<greg-g> (I believe that the page size of our popular pages isn't exactly random/normal dist)
<greg-g> eg: Russia and Barack Obama, they're big ones :)
<greg-g> Barack Obama's page routinely breaks because editors put too many citations :)
<greg-g> well shit: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gjkivAf3
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/9enBZb - text/plain; charset=utf-8
<greg-g> sure hope it's fake
<jrwren> greg-g: no DDoS mitigation system?
<greg-g> jrwren: well, bandwidth isn't really a problem, honestly. From what I heard from our former network lead was that when she received emails threatening DDOSs she mostly just laughed
<greg-g> it's intelligent DDOS'ing that's our problem
<greg-g> ie: doing this one expensive API request over and over or whatever
<greg-g> https://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=14907
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/nX3Hg6 - Peering Networks Detailed View
<greg-g> Traffic Levels 20-50 Gbps
<tjagoda> Bam!  I'm here two days in a row!  That's a record for 2014.
<rick_h_> I'm going to start throwing rocks at anyone that looks like they might have ever worked for ATT
<tjagoda> Are you an angry Uverse customer or an angry wireless customer?
<tjagoda> I dont really understand how you can have that much fiber infrastructure and still deliver bad service to the endpoints
<rick_h_> angry uverse customer
<rick_h_> it's more customer service at this point. I've tried two phone calls, a trip to the store, and now an online chat in order for me to throw more money at them
<tjagoda> The experience of attempting to unlock my att wireless phone was so frustrating that I literally just went out and bought an unlocked phone
<tjagoda> #ThanksATT
<gamerchick02> UGH
<gamerchick02> i'm sorry
<gamerchick02> but in good news, two-factor auth is enabled for both my google accounts
<rick_h_> woot
<tjagoda> Do they use Duo?
<tjagoda> Or is it all hidden behind google branding?
<gamerchick02> i downloaded an auth app
<gamerchick02> like the battle.net one with shorter numbers
<gamerchick02> oh and evernote
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I probably shouldn't mention who I worked with at Alcatel Lucent.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-06
<rick_h_>  cmaloney :) it's all good. two phone calls, 3 forwards, a trip to the ATT store, and the website order shopping cart finally worked
<rick_h_> I'll just have to deal with cancelling my home service once the business one is installed
<cmaloney> Fun fun
<gamerchick02> good luck, rick_h_
<rick_h_> cmaloney: let's make sure to chat about trello and tasks for your mentee at CHC
<cmaloney> Sure thing.
<rick_h_> working on the private bookmark task list, little easier
<rick_h_> https://trello.com/b/jXSwmBMC/bookie
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/2yOwBc - Trello
<_stink_> manatee?
<rick_h_> mentor mentee?
<_stink_> yeah you had it right :P  but manatee lends better mental images.
<cmaloney> Some mornings I feel like a manatee
<rick_h_> morning party people
<brousch> in the place to be
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> rick_h_: Portland wins again https://i.imgur.com/rypGAps.png
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/M2YO5b - image/png
<rick_h_> woo!
<cmaloney> www.kenandrobintalkaboutstuff.com/index.php/episode-87-the-whacking-shovel/
<cmaloney> Their latest episode they talk about the Portland Fim Festival
<cmaloney> http://www.kenandrobintalkaboutstuff.com/index.php/episode-87-the-whacking-shovel/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/lovopw - Episode 87: The Whacking Shovel Â« Ken and Robin Talk About Stuff
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: sry the regex requires http[s]?://. i didn't want it to grab things that weren't urls
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: No worries.
<cmaloney> I blame Chrome for being stupid.
<greg-g> GET RID OF ALL THE URLS!
<greg-g> URLS ARE SOOOOOOO 1990
<cmaloney> greg-g: Now now
<cmaloney> http:// is the only thing keeping you from gopher:
<mrgoodcat> When I copy paste from chrome the http prefix is there
<cmaloney> Try using the middle-mouse buttin
<cmaloney> button
<mrgoodcat> What is that supposed to do?
<mrgoodcat> I use it to close tabs
<cmaloney> select the URL in the URL bar
<cmaloney> then paste using middle-click in a terminal window
<greg-g> cmaloney: AOL Keyword: Urls Are Dead
<cmaloney> greg-g: har har
<cmaloney> Let me webring your neck
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7406214/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/PD1a0e - Ubuntu Pastebin
<cmaloney> Pardon me while I say
<cmaloney> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
<cmaloney> (breathe)
<cmaloney> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> Because the one thing that I think Open Metalcast needs right now is some cheezy-ass logo spining for 30 seconds.
<cmaloney> Fuck, it's not like I don't have access to Blender.
<brousch> Will it be more metal?
<cmaloney> paste.ubuntu.com/7406237/
<rick_h_> someone poisioned someone's coffee today :P
<cmaloney> Considering I don't have any logo on my page I'd like to see them make it spin. :)
<cmaloney> I love these spam messages though for folks that have not read any of the content of the site.
<cmaloney> If I really had the cajones I'd respond with "Really? I thought I was the only person on the planet who felt that centipedes were the master race. Centi-power! Centi-power!"
<mrgoodcat> master race?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<ColonelPanic001> just make the entire site spin, like when you search google for "do a barrel roll"
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Hello world
<rick_h_> party
<gamerchick02> huzzah i am finally home
<mrgoodcat> hope my lappy doesn't die during install...
<mrgoodcat> forgot the charger at work today
<mrgoodcat> 20% battery
<mrgoodcat> *danger zone*
<greg-g> wel come to the dangerzone
<mrgoodcat> why is it that every cs professor assumes you know nothing at the beginning of the class
<mrgoodcat> i swear i've learned how to use eclipse in like 10 different classes
<mrgoodcat> that
<mrgoodcat> that's like 9 times more than i've even used eclipse
<gamerchick02> oh no! mrgoodcat too bad you don't have an extra one in your bag.
<gamerchick02> lol @ eclipse
<gamerchick02> (i don't know how to use it)
<mrgoodcat> eclipse is the devil i'm pretty sure
<mrgoodcat> it is either the devil or created by the devil
<mrgoodcat> i'd rather use gedit than eclipse
<mrgoodcat> i've never had a battery die during an ubuntu install
<mrgoodcat> anyone know if there is any potential for hardware damage of any kind
<gamerchick02> i use gedit
<gamerchick02> no hardware damage i think
<gamerchick02> can you maybe kill it and shut it down properly and try again tomorrow with a full battery?
<mrgoodcat> nope
<gamerchick02> hrm
<mrgoodcat> it's almost done
<mrgoodcat> we've gone too far now
<gamerchick02> what's your % at?
<gamerchick02> of battery i mean
<mrgoodcat> i actually could. but i'm gonna make it i think
<mrgoodcat> 19%
<mrgoodcat> chromebook batteries are king
<gamerchick02> woot
<gamerchick02> are you using chrobuntu?
<mrgoodcat> nope
<mrgoodcat> raw install
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> which chrome book? pixel?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<mrgoodcat> alongside chrome though
<mrgoodcat> lol pixel
<mrgoodcat> no
<mrgoodcat> c720
<mrgoodcat> wish i had a pixel screen
<mrgoodcat> pixel screen with haswell cpu would be amazing
<mrgoodcat> but not 1500$ amazing
<mrgoodcat> i can get 7 c720s for that
<gamerchick02> nice
<mrgoodcat> one for work, home, girlfriend, girlfriend work, mom, dad, and mobile
<gamerchick02> i can get a new 13" macbook pro for $1500.
<mrgoodcat> but really i don't have money for that
<mrgoodcat> so i got one
<gamerchick02> hah
<mrgoodcat> for me
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> enjoy it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-07
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> working on the camper wooo
<greg-g> watching On Site With Thomas with Rowan and eating popcorn for dinner since Carrie is at a baby sitting coop meeting thingy
<greg-g> also, mentally prepping for tomorrow's flight to Zurich
<brousch> greg-g: Wait, there's no baby sitting available during the baby sitting co-op meeting?
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> gooood morning campers
<brousch> rick_h_: Remote work is part of your Javascript junkie job request, right?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Was that personality test work-related?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, manager training
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I took one at my first job out of college as well
<cmaloney> I really, really hate personality tests. :)
<rick_h_> so comparing the diff (though I don't have the details of my first one)
<rick_h_> I wouldn't care but I did it straight out of college and I find the idea of reflecting on changes over 10yr ish to be interesting
<cmaloney> Yeah, you've become more tolerant of wrong people. :)
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> Instead of complete annihilation, you've chosen nihilism.
<brousch> Hm, ENTJ seems to fit you well, rick_h_
<cmaloney> It's a horoscope
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I was surprised the N turned to S, but then again maybe I've gotten more list-like over time
<rick_h_> to be fair, it was only slightly S vs N so I guess I play the middle well enough
<cmaloney> I think you've also become more tolerant.
<cmaloney> and by tolerant I mean you're not force-choking those who oppose you. ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> I'll take it
 * cmaloney just got an idea for Darth Vader in management training
<cmaloney> OK, this is strange
<cmaloney> On Reddit: someone posted http://www.reddit.com/r/progmetal/comments/24xnva/fountain_of_lamneth_rush/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/oJWlln - Too Many Requests
<cmaloney> hah.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - I Think I'm Going Bald by Rush on Caress Of Steel
<cmaloney> I _rarely_ play Caress of Steel
<cmaloney> but the Squeezebox picked it at random.
<brousch> So Jython is not quite dead yet http://fwierzbicki.blogspot.com/2014/05/jython-27-beta2-released.html
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/SiYd95 - Frank Wierzbicki's Weblog: Jython 2.7 beta2 released!
<jrwren> who cares about jython when pypy is so awesome?
<brousch> People who love Swing?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Now now now, I'm sure the folks who are interested in Java libraries would take umbrage with your statement.
<cmaloney> both of them.
<jrwren> brousch: THERE ARE NONE!
<brousch> Good luck running your applet on pypy
<cmaloney> jrwren: wherever there are two people gathered there will be a magazine.
<brousch> Everybody loves applets
<cmaloney> brousch: ANd parachute pants.
<brousch> It's Java right in your browser!
<jrwren> applet?
<jrwren> those don't exist.
<brousch> I made a Java applet in 1997. that is well after parachute pants were popular
<jrwren> i did too, in '96 or 97, was only wya to get audio on a webpage, and I wanted my webpage to play music!
<brousch> Well I learned one thing from that blog post. It looks like Maven Central is pypi for Java http://search.maven.org/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/UoZuo1 - The Central Repository Search Engine
<jrwren> you didn't know about maven?
<jrwren> java folks LOVE maven
<brousch> I just encountered it for the first time when trying to build bookie for Android, but I'm not a Java guy
<jrwren> i only know of it cuz I know java folks and we talk nerdy
<mrgoodcat> what is maven?
<mrgoodcat> a build system?
<jrwren> like brousch said, its like pypi
<jrwren> so... its like rubygems.org
<brousch> I think maven is a build system, and Maven Central is pypi
<jrwren> it can be.
<jrwren> you can also use it with ant, but still trigger maven dependency mgmt
<jrwren> although I have no idea how folks do things these days
 * cmaloney is checking out Vundle
<mrgoodcat> i use vundle
 * jrwren ddgs
<jrwren> oh! that is the new thingy.
<jrwren> I still use pathogen
<rick_h_> what does vundle do that pathogen doesn't?
<rick_h_> I didn't follow
<cmaloney> Vundle allows you to add the plugin in your .vimrc
<cmaloney> It's one more layer above pathogen.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think you're the one person it's not intended for. :)
<cmaloney> lepture.com/en/2012/vundle-vs-pathogen
<jrwren> i'd do vundle if I were starting over.
<jrwren> i'm just too lazy to start over.
<brousch> Eclipse4Life!
<greg-g> brousch: that'd be a catch-22, it's just getting started.
<jrwren> wtf is Eclipse4Life?
<brousch> That's what I say to irritate the vimmers
<rick_h_> oh, so vundle just does git pulls for you
<rick_h_> so you need a new tool to automate that?! cursed open source
<brousch> Small, focused tools. If you don't like that, join me in Eclipse4Life
<rick_h_> yea, let me get right on that whole 'stab my eyes out' thing
<brousch> maybe emacs is more your style
<rick_h_> already using a kenisis to avoid wrist pain thanks
<jcastro> hey so I tried atom
<jcastro> and it's <3
<rick_h_> jcastro: :P
<brousch> OSX-only. It can DIAF until it runs on Linux
<jcastro> it's more of a sublime replacement than a vim replacement
<jcastro> runs linux yo
<brousch> Front page has only OSX download link, FAQ says only OSX
<jcastro> https://github.com/atom/atom#linux-requirements
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/wQFR1Q - atom/atom Â· GitHub
<jcastro> it took a while to build though, like 20 minutes on my i7
<brousch> Geez, well at least now it doesn't have to DIAF
<brousch> Thanks
<jrwren> I still don't know what Eclipse4Life means
<brousch> It means use Eclipse for the rest of your life
<jrwren> Is Eclipse like some tool for watching the moon and sun and earth interact?
<brousch> Y U troll me bro?
<brousch> Windows requirements for Atom are interesting: Visual Studio 2010 C++ Express, Github for Windows, and Python2.7?
<cmaloney> Funnily enough it was the Atom announcement that indirectly got me to try Vundle.
<jrwren> yes, I am trolling you brousch :)
<ColonelPanic001> Eclipse is a tool for stress testing your CPU and RAM
<ColonelPanic001> and your patience
<jrwren> I probably would love eclipse if someone ever taught me how to use it.
<jrwren> every time I try to learn it, I get angry and stop using it. Its unusable IMO
<rick_h_> no...no you wouldn't
<jrwren> you are right, I wouldn't love it.
<jrwren> I might tollerate it.
<jrwren> kinda like redhat based distros... tollerable.
<cmaloney> I have the same problem. Every time I play with Eclipse it pisses me off.
<jrwren> cmaloney: ^5
<rick_h_> i used it professionally and don't miss a thing
<cmaloney> It's like having an entire ecosystem based on cargo-cult installation
<cmaloney> (coincidentally that's also part of the reason I don't care for Ruby)
<cmaloney> (though when compared with Eclipse Ruby's ecosystem seems downright professional)
<greg-g> speaking of ruby: https://twitter.com/arirubinstein/status/463848382386040832
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/gq8VRY - Twitter / arirubinstein: curl localhost:3000/staraction ...
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Wasn't that fixed a while back?
<greg-g> http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q2/260 this suggests not?
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/qW0gdy - oss-sec: [CVE-2014-0130] Directory Traversal Vulnerability With Certain Route Configurations
<cmaloney> Oh ffs
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: what do you mean by cargo-cult?
<brousch> Hm, got an email from these guys asking to talk to me. They got my info from GitHub and called me "a Macgyver". Looks kind of interesting actually https://www.truevault.com/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/HE2DwB - TrueVault - HIPAA compliant data store
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=cargo+cult
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/daQwAL - Let Me DuckDuckGo That For You
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> damnit bookiebot, ruining things
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: i would have probbably figured it out from the url anyways
<mrgoodcat> duck duck go > google
<greg-g> those "let me X for you" urls should be short urls/obfuscated
<mrgoodcat> you could have shortened it. bookiebot would still have ruined your fun though
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: I want *them* to do it for me! I'm lazy!
<greg-g> http://ur1.ca/h9vp0
<bookiebot> Let Me DuckDuckGo That For You
<mrgoodcat> haha. i think lmgtfy has a shorten option
<mrgoodcat> it is nice to know what shortlinks are before clicking on them though
<greg-g> doesn't look like it, but I've moved on ;)
<mrgoodcat> jcastro: i'm building atom on my chromebook right now and it's SOOOO SLOOOWWW
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> took about 25minutes on my i7 btw
<mrgoodcat> dual core 1.4
<mrgoodcat> celeron ftw
<cmaloney> celeron: impersonating a real processor since 1995.
<mrgoodcat> 2793.71
<mrgoodcat> most important number
<mrgoodcat> BOGOMIPS :)
<mrgoodcat> this celeron is haswell based
<jcastro> I am pleasantly surprised at how well the C720 runs
<mrgoodcat> same
<mrgoodcat> love it
<jcastro> I mean, other than compiling software, it's <3
<mrgoodcat> although it could use a bit more ram
<brousch> Get the 4GB model foolio
<jcastro> yeah I put like 16GB of RAM in my machine for chrome, and they're slumming it at 4GB
<mrgoodcat> i've got 2
<mrgoodcat> couldn't get my hands on the 4 model
<rick_h_> jcastro: you went chromebook?
<brousch> They come and go
<jcastro> rick_h_, I added one
<rick_h_> cool
<mrgoodcat> i'll get a pixel if i can find a good deal on it
<jcastro> it's our couch PC, mostly Jills
<mrgoodcat> but pixel doesn't have haswell
<mrgoodcat> which is pretty bummer
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Currently at Office Depot for $270 (http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/504674/Acer-Aspire-C720-29554G01aii-116-LED/) and Newegg for $265 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834314406)
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/3XQqKR - Acer Aspire C720 29554G01aii 116 LED ComfyView Notebook Intel Celeron 2955U 140 GHz by Office Depot
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/cRY9pd - Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!
<brousch> I might get one of these http://www.pcworld.com/article/2151161/lenovo-announces-n20p-chromebook-with-touchscreen-and-300-degree-hinge.html
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/CNcMc5 - Lenovo announces consumer N20 Chromebooks
<mrgoodcat> depends on specs
<mrgoodcat> i saw that yesterday
<mrgoodcat> i'd like to have haswell, >=4gb ram, and a pixel-quality 11-13 inch screen
<mrgoodcat> removeable ram and ssd would be nice too
<brousch> It has 4GB of RAM, but the usual crappy Chromebook screen
<brousch> The Samsung Chromebook 2 13" is the only other one with a nice screen
<jcastro> rick_h_,  the way thinkpads are going I am afraid we're all going to end up with chromebooks
<mrgoodcat> i <3 cromebooks
<cmaloney> Pretty much
<brousch> You'll buy your thinkpad with ChromeOS or Windows. Which evil do you hate less?
<mrgoodcat> just wish my kb was a bit nicer
<mrgoodcat> you think chromeos is evil?
<cmaloney> I wish the KB was a little more "standard"
<mrgoodcat> certainly less evil than windows
<mrgoodcat> gdi
<mrgoodcat> i have to rebuild node
<mrgoodcat> i'm running master which is v0.11.*
<mrgoodcat> atom only supports v0.10.*
<brousch> mrgoodcat: You run Ubuntu 14.04 on it, right?
<mrgoodcat> yup
<mrgoodcat> but i had to wrestle with it a bit
<mrgoodcat> turned out, the kernel that ships with 14.04 doesn't work with the patches everyone's been using
<mrgoodcat> but i got it all working
<mrgoodcat> i also have chromeos though. dual boot ftw
<jrwren> i should get one of those cheapo chrome books and run ubuntu on it
<rick_h_> it can be the netbook revolution all over again wheeee
<mrgoodcat> except these are actually nice
<mrgoodcat> i hated netbooks when they first came out because they were all crap
<rick_h_> except for their screens, keyboards, and disk space
<brousch> rick_h_: No, no. Netbooks were 7-10" at 1024x600. Chromebooks are 11-13" at 1366x768 resolution. It's entirely different
<rick_h_> brousch: oh oh oh my bad
<rick_h_> brousch: I thought you were talking about cheap laptops still.
<mrgoodcat> haters gonna hate
<mrgoodcat> i love my c720
<jrwren> 1366x768??? fuck that.
<mrgoodcat> i don't love the screen
<mrgoodcat> but we love our kids even when they eat glue right?
<jrwren> i'll never go less than 1440x900
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: you got kids?
<mrgoodcat> lol no
<mrgoodcat> fuckallofthat
<brousch> jrwren: Then you need the Samsung Chromebook 2 13" (1080p) or Pixel
<mrgoodcat> neither of those have the CPU i want
<jrwren> aren't those $$$$
<brousch> Samsung is an ARM CPU though, so you can all of the good stuff from Linux
<mrgoodcat> haswell is way better for battery life
<brousch> can't get
<brousch> Pixel can be found for $850 used
<jrwren> Samsung Chromebook 2 looks pretty sweet, but I'm not sure I want to run ubuntu ARM
<mrgoodcat> i can get 4 of these for that
<jrwren> indeed!
<jrwren> get 4, and matrix the displays
<mrgoodcat> atom has failed to build like 10 times now. i've tried multiple versions of node/npm and running as sudo. i even uninstalled and reinstalled deps
<mrgoodcat> bah. needed to set node to use python2
<jrwren> years ago there was an X windows virtual server which would display to multiple X windows servers.
<jrwren> i wonder if that is still around
<mrgoodcat> oh finally it builds
<mrgoodcat> slowly
<brousch> Node needs Python?
<mrgoodcat> jcastro: have you used sublime?
<mrgoodcat> brousch: no, but the build script does
<mrgoodcat> for atom
<jcastro> mrgoodcat, yeah it's my current editor
<mrgoodcat> better or worse than atom?
<mrgoodcat> i'm building atom right now but ST3 is my current
<jcastro> i'ts more finished
<jcastro> but I will be transitioning to atom
<mrgoodcat> i like that atom is OSS
<mrgoodcat> but ST3 is hard to beat
<mrgoodcat> jcastro: does atom install fuck with your .profile or anything like that?
<jcastro> not afaict
<jrwren> git grep .profile
<jrwren> will answer that quickly
<jcastro> the only issue I have right now is that it takes a long time to build
<jcastro> but someone can set up launchpad to build packages eventually
<jcastro> oh, and the 5 second start up time isn't so hot either
<mrgoodcat> i got it fixed
<mrgoodcat> apm is a bad program name
<mrgoodcat> since it already exists
<jrwren> node-apm isn't it?
<jrwren> i mean when debian packaged?
<mrgoodcat> what do you mean?
<rick_h_> in the debian world things get prefixed
<mrgoodcat> apm is the atom package manager
<mrgoodcat> ah got it
<mrgoodcat> /usr/local/share/atom/atom: error while loading shared libraries: libudev.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<mrgoodcat> i have libudev1 and libudev-dev installed
<mrgoodcat> i just linked libudev.so.1 to libudev.so.0
<mrgoodcat> and atom started....
<mrgoodcat> so i hope that wasn't a bad idea
<jrwren> looks like you should have libudev0 maybe?
<jrwren> its maybe becuase you are on 14.04 instead of 12.04?
<mrgoodcat> yea 14.04 doesn't have libudev0 in the repos
<mrgoodcat> so here's to hoping they're similar enough not to screw me up :)
<jrwren> it likely is
<mrgoodcat> started reading the changelog but gave up
<mrgoodcat> too long
<mrgoodcat> looks like mostly security updates though
<mrgoodcat> and bugfixes
<jrwren> it comes from system3
<jrwren> systemd
<jrwren> which likely HAS had a lot of changes since 12.04, but maybe not in libudev :p
<jrwren> its TINY: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/src/libudev
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/5xWseP - systemd/systemd - System and Session Manager
<mrgoodcat> why does atom need libudev?
<jrwren> great question
<jrwren> git grep udev, find out ;)
<mrgoodcat> it
<mrgoodcat> it's not in there....
<mrgoodcat> maybe node needs it?
<mrgoodcat> nope...
<mrgoodcat> now i'm confused
<jrwren> WTF is CSON?
<jrwren> coffee script object notation *eyeroll*
<mrgoodcat> coffee json
<mrgoodcat> you must have seen the mega CSON?
<jrwren> i can't pretend to understand how /usr/local/share/atom/atom even ends up being an ELF executable
<jrwren> https://github.com/atom/atom is all coffee
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/wQFR1Q - atom/atom Â· GitHub
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> read the build script
<jrwren> which one?
<mrgoodcat> actually not sure
<mrgoodcat> idk how it works
<mrgoodcat> Did rick_h_ make this? http://vim.sexy
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/2ODQaZ - vim is sexy
<rick_h_> hah, no
<mrgoodcat> seems like something you'd make
<jsivak> good to see those new TLD's put to good use.
<brousch> OMG WTF. In VB.NET you declare the length of an array by specifying it's last index, but arrays are zero indexed
<brousch> So if you want to declare an 8 element array it's dim bleh(7) as whatever
<mrgoodcat> so Dim students(6) As Integer actually makes an array of 7
<mrgoodcat> lol
<brousch> Yes!
<brousch> In my case, I was declaring an array based on the length of another array, but it kept coming out with 1 empty element
<jsivak> heh, *more* reasons to dislike VB
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> length() isn't 0 indexed?
<mrgoodcat> but declaring is?
<brousch> Correct!
<mrgoodcat> BWAHAHA
<brousch> WTFBBQ
<jsivak> .. actually, I have dim memories about that being one of the "issues" of porting VB to VB.NET.. they had to "inherit" some things..
<jsivak> (since the underlying byte-code is probably more like C than VB.. )
<brousch> Apparently they break language features in between releases. I have to work in VB.NET for VS 2008 right now. I wonder if they will fix this in newer versions
<brousch> I'll put a comment beginning with WTF to mark this stuff
<cmaloney> http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?hide_menu_area=true&GroupID=460&Code=0B47189
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/gMu7N1 - ThinkPad Compact Bluetooth Keyboard with TrackPoint US English | Lenovo | (US)
<jsivak> heh.. "ultimate correctness" (e.g. fix in future) or "at least its consistent" (e.g. broken forever).. not sure which is better.
<brousch> ooooh, that keyboard is hawt
<rick_h_> cmaloney: it's cool but laptop scissor switches :(
<cmaloney> Saw popey with two of them (different models I think) and thought of rick_h_
<cmaloney> yeah, that's the only downside
<rick_h_> oh yea, I've been so tempted many times
<rick_h_> see, I do have the ability to resist...once in a while
<cmaloney> but hey, that's one way to work around the broken Thinkpad keyboard on their stupid laptops
 * rick_h_ says that while opening his new UPS box with three NUCs inside for his upcoming MAAS garage
<cmaloney> dafuq?
<cmaloney> Which ones did you buy?
<rick_h_> jcastro: knows what I'm talking :)
<cmaloney> Oh no
<cmaloney> I see where this is going already.
<rick_h_> business class multi IP service installed next tues
<rick_h_> going to have two diff networks at home
<cmaloney> juju deploy nuc dafuq
<mrgoodcat> wow
<rick_h_> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102052
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/BLLO9Z - Newegg.com - Intel NUC D54250WYK1 Intel QS77 2 x 204Pin Intel HD Graphics 5000 NUC Kit
<mrgoodcat> i should host my shit at rick_h_'s house
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Pretty soon you will
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you going to host bmark.us or something?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: no, it's for work
<rick_h_> well, mostly work and playing with juju/charms/etc
<rick_h_> but the goal is to have a maas setup teammates can use
<cmaloney> Basically rick_h_ is going to have CI for Juju in his basement.
<rick_h_> woot!
<brousch> Geez. Took me 12 lines of VB to do this code that would take 2 lines of Python
<mrgoodcat> pastie for lulz? or proprietary code?
<brousch> I really miss list comprehensions http://pastebin.com/NVwmcirs
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/7GSd7L - Imports System Imports System.IO Public Class MainForm Dim PATH_TO_BOMS - Pastebin.com
<brousch> I'm sure some of it due to not knowing VB.NET well
<cmaloney> Python does the same thing re: length of arrays
<cmaloney> That's the fun of arrays that start from 0
<jrwren> brousch: in VB.NET you can set the base of arrays per file.
<jrwren> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa266179%28v=vs.60%29.aspx
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/tFkbw5 - Option Base Statement
<cmaloney> jrwren: That sounds like an excellent shotgun for an unsuspecting foot
<jrwren> OPTION BASE 0 if you want zero based arrays like a REAL lang :)
<brousch> That sounds like a recipe for fun
<brousch> It is base 0
<brousch> but you define it by the last element, not the length
<jrwren> "Basically rick_h_ is going to have CI for Juju in his basement." -- don't we all run that on our basement openstacks?
<cmaloney> jrwren: But of course.
<cmaloney> I heat my home with Octocore CPUs.
<jrwren> octocore? i just run it on an old laptop :p
<mrgoodcat> grep -r WTF . | wc -l
<mrgoodcat> 32
<mrgoodcat> on most recent kernel
<mrgoodcat> 15 wtf
<mrgoodcat> 30 fuck
<jrwren> git grep is your friend :p
<mrgoodcat> apt-get source doesn't get it as a git repo
<mrgoodcat> git grep WTF
<mrgoodcat> not a git repository
<jrwren> file a bug on that :)
<jrwren> brousch: I think you can impl that whole event handler in 2 lines of code.
<jrwren>        Dim bomDirInfo As New DirectoryInfo(PATH_TO_BOMS)
<jrwren>         cmbJobNumber.Items.AddRange(From dirInfo in bomDirInfo.GetDirectories Select dirInfo.Name Order By dirInfo.Name)
<jrwren> brousch: point being, LINQ is far more powerful than python list comprehensions
<brousch> Looks like I should read my book first
<jrwren> some of the time when I write python, I miss linq :)
<brousch> It doesn't work, but I can see where you're going with it
<jrwren> yeah, I don't have a VB compiler at my disposal :(
<brousch> Even just AddRange eliminates a bunch of code
<brousch> I'll read my VB.NET book
<jrwren> yup, addrange is your friend. most lists support it
<jrwren> brousch: add Imports System.Linq at top
<jrwren> change orderby to just 'Order By Name'
<jrwren> i found this - http://dotnetfiddle.net/ which lets me try it :)
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/wUSSbZ - .NET Fiddle
<brousch> Unable to cast object of type 'System.Linq.OrderedEnumerable`2[System.String,System.String]' to type 'System.Object[]'.
<jrwren> ah, stupid combobox
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> wrap whole thing in parens adn then call ToArray()
<jrwren> cmbJobNumber.Items.AddRange((From dirInfo in bomDirInfo.GetDirectories() Select dirInfo.Name Order By Name).ToArray())
<brousch> Holy smokes. I just added Descending to the Order By and it works
<brousch> Order By Name Descending
<jrwren> oh yup.
<jrwren> sorry, i forgot about taht
<jrwren> but ye, descending works.
<jrwren> see...
<jrwren> LINQ
<jrwren> linq really makes other lang comprehensions look BAD
<brousch> I think you condenced 12 lines of my code to 1
<jrwren> I figured I would
<jrwren> cuz you can inline that bomDirInfo
<jrwren> not bad for a guy who has never written VB.NET :p
<brousch> You are today's champion
<brousch> So that's LINQ?
<brousch> I can actually in-line the first line too
<brousch> cmbJobNumber.Items.AddRange((From dirInfo In New DirectoryInfo(PATH_TO_BOMS).GetDirectories() Select dirInfo.Name Order By Name Descending).ToArray())
<jrwren> yes, that **From XX In YY Select SSS Order By OO ** is linq
<brousch> I was able to adjust it for another similar method too
<jrwren> yay!
<jrwren> saving U code.
<jrwren> I R UR code savior
<brousch> You win an Internet Cookie!
<jrwren> https://brousch.com/+authorize-token/+login?oauth_token=:p  INET blahblah 1391121668 brousch.com / 15 0
<brousch> Wow, this works really nicely now
<brousch> jrwren: Thanks for the help.
<jrwren> brousch: you are welcome :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-08
<cmaloney> party
<rick_h_> yay ... or not
<brousch> party
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Since-Strangling-Option-Sandra-Crowe-ebook/dp/B00HFXK46K/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/Y8DR8t - Amazon.com: Since Strangling Isn't an Option eBook: Sandra A. Crowe: Kindle Store
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^^
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> trying to hint at anything
<cmaloney> Not at all
<cmaloney> Recommernded to Diana as well
<mrgoodcat> little known fact. exclamation marks make notifications travel faster to rick_h_'s phone
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: not a very enthusiastic pong
<cmaloney> Yet another in the "MySQL does strange shit" category: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16549566/mysql-cant-insert-record-with-unsigned-primary-key-being-zero
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/KLnWSg - mysql can't insert record with unsigned primary key being zero - Stack Overflow
<cmaloney> and the "I wish you were PostgreSQL" category: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/interactive/datatype-numeric.html#DATATYPE-SERIAL
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/crFrOT - PostgreSQL: Documentation: 9.3: Numeric Types
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: he really shouldn't be explicitly trying to set a value on an autoincrement primary key field
<mrgoodcat> the whole point of it is that it is automatic
<mrgoodcat> if you need an explicit field you should make another column
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I mostly agree.
<cmaloney> though it still irritates me that 0 has special meaning
<cmaloney> if I want to have a 0 == None category listing then there's no way to do that.
<cmaloney> Outside of trickery.
<mrgoodcat> anybody use Gradle?
<brousch> I use a Griddle
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> reading the "modern java developer" blog that's been going around in the last week or so
<mrgoodcat> he mentions Ant and Maven as being old relics
<mrgoodcat> apparently "the modern Java developer uses Gradle"
<mrgoodcat> which is what android uses by default
<brousch> Android Studio does
<cmaloney> "Thus avoiding smells like shotgun changes or divergent change that turn your build into a maintenance nightmare."
<cmaloney> www.gradle.org/overview
<mrgoodcat> it does seem to have some nice features
<cmaloney> yeah, !java, and !xml
<mrgoodcat> java 8 is so much better than java 7
<mrgoodcat> i'd have been happy if the only change was adding lambdas
<mrgoodcat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/CigFkdvc
<cmaloney> It's only better by 1 java though
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/ZADwOb - Pastebin: CigFkdvc | IRCCloud
<mrgoodcat> turns into
<brousch> gah, I hate lambdas. Write a frickin function
<mrgoodcat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/G839h6pf
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/geyOEt - Pastebin: G839h6pf | IRCCloud
<mrgoodcat> disclaimer: not my code
<cmaloney> You know what I see in that code?
<mrgoodcat> java
<cmaloney> Typesafe boilerplate
<cmaloney> List<String>
<cmaloney> Map<Character, List<String>>
<mrgoodcat> oh in the first code
<cmaloney> public static void main(String[] args)
<cmaloney> Oh, is the second one Java8?
<mrgoodcat> yea
<cmaloney> I'm not sure that's much better but it's a lot less syntax. :)
<mrgoodcat> way less typing
<mrgoodcat> it is much better
<mrgoodcat> it may not be BEST
<mrgoodcat> but it beats java <= 7
<cmaloney> granted.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://www.commitstrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Strip-Vision-Open-source-650-finalenglish.jpg
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/wErwzT - image/jpeg
<brousch> strippervision?
<mrgoodcat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_Coaster
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/qmCQIg - Euthanasia Coaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<mrgoodcat> lol jurassic fork
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
<jrwren> why would you hate lambdas?
<jrwren> lambdas give you closure properties that regular functions don't give you in most languages.
<jrwren> unless of course you can next functions :)
<mrgoodcat> rip jcastro
<jrwren> that isn't funny mrgoodcat
<jrwren> you scared me.
<jrwren> i've had too many acquaintances die this year
<mrgoodcat> Oh sorry. His terminal died
<jrwren> yeah, i figured that out
<jrwren> but for 2 seconds I was freaking out
<mrgoodcat> I say it all the time in my other channel. Didn't even think about it
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I've seen that in other channels
<jrwren> nevermind me then.
<cmaloney> but a good number of us are in the age where we're starting to lose more friends.
<cmaloney> So the humor doesn't translate. :)
<cmaloney> ie: A good number of folks from my elementary class are dead
<cmaloney> granted a good number of them offed themselves doing stupid things.
 * brousch joins in shaking his cane at mrgoodcat
<mrgoodcat> Lol
<mrgoodcat> At the cane
<mrgoodcat> Not deaths
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Reflect The Enemy by Flesh Field on Strain
 * cmaloney wonders if he could ever DJ a dance at Penguicon or something
<cmaloney> Damn, I love this song.
<cmaloney> (OK, I'll shut up now. ;) )
<shakes808> Hello everyone
<brousch> yo
<shakes808> I have finally started getting my server set up :)
<shakes808> I am trying to configure some things now
<shakes808> I got side tracked with trying to set up a registered IRC channel
<shakes808> I have a manual for that
<shakes808> but my question is to get a logger so that I can see what was written while I was away from the channel
<shakes808> Does that make any sense?  Similar to the irclogs.ubuntu.com
<shakes808> the brown cow is great
<shakes808> the brown cow is great
<shakes808> the brown cow is great
<shakes808> the brown cow is great
<shakes808> I love you zachary. You are the best son that I have.
<shakes808> .......
<shakes808> sorry wrong chat
<shakes808>  :)
<brousch> is that your password?
<shakes808> HAHA
<shakes808> No. I am teaching my son how to type and thought I was in that channel
<shakes808> :| sorry :)
<shakes808> Is there anything special that I need for the logger?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-09
<mrgoodcat> shakes808: you just need to keep a client on
<mrgoodcat> I use irccloud. It stays logged in
<mrgoodcat> Alternatively there are some premade bots that do it
<shakes808> similar to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/3kOn6O - Index of /
<mrgoodcat> shakes808: I can help you later tonight. Gotta go
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - The Eucharist by Flesh Field on Strain [8 May 2014, 21:12]
<cmaloney> Whoops.
<cmaloney> That's old actually.
<rick_h_> let the evening part 2 start wheeee
<cmaloney> That good eh?
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Physical Cities by The Bad Plus on 2008-07-26: 10,000 Lakes Festival, Detroit Lakes, MN, USA
<cmaloney> Um, that's not right.
 * cmaloney went to the library tonight and raided their CD collection
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/05/report-apple-to-acquire-beats-electronics-for-3-2-billion/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/hMoXzd - Report: Apple to acquire Beats Electronics for $3.2 billion | Ars Technica
<cmaloney> This does not surprise me in the slightest
<cmaloney> Beats are all about how good the music looks.
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> Dr. Dre just became PLAYA!!!
<rick_h_> yea, you do see a lot of beats out there
<jrwren> Dre gonna be like "Jay-Z, Masta-P, P-diddy... pfff.. come work for me... bitches"
<rick_h_> did you just write a line of perl?
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren> nah, that is pyhton bytecode
<rick_h_> oooooh
<rick_h_> cool
<cmaloney> def jayz(self):
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> class DrDre(playa):
<rick_h_> damn I hate debugging interdependent tests
<jrwren> class playa(jrwren): pass #  sssshhhh
<rick_h_> dant
<rick_h_> something
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> Zurich is crazy
<greg-g> I paid 4 Francs (about $4 plus change) for an espresso yesterday.
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> coffee!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> but effing jetlag
<rick_h_> yea, I hate it when the flights don't time well enough with the destinations to help with that stuff
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Glad I'm working from home today as the AC unit in the building is apparently not working
<rick_h_> wheee
<cmaloney> Yeah, at least with home I know I don't have AC but I have the ability to open up windows.
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/254byo/what_motivates_tim_pope/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/xDsmt4 - Too Many Requests
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> top comment: he probably just likes programming and wants them for his own use
<mrgoodcat> bingo
<mrgoodcat> webupd8 is awesome http://www.webupd8.org/2014/05/install-atom-text-editor-in-ubuntu-via-ppa.html
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/m5aLDS - Install Atom Text Editor In Ubuntu Via PPA ~ Web Upd8: Ubuntu / Linux blog
<mrgoodcat> no more having to build that on my laptop
<brousch> nice
<greg-g> ya'll are late
<jrwren> friday friday
<greg-g> I've been up for 9 hours
<jrwren> why?
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren> its only 1pm UTC. where are you? moscow?
<greg-g> jrwren: Zurich, UTC+2
<greg-g> that, and jetlag
<cmaloney> greg-g: Says the guy that starts his day normally at 10am EDT. ;)
<greg-g> cmaloney: :)
<cmaloney> I think I figured out how Keurig is going to do their DRM on their KCups.
<cmaloney> optical circuit. They've been putting a TM band around their cups.
<rick_h_> make them only operate after a blood sample via a poker inthe top of each cup?
<cmaloney> I've been noticing their new design
<cmaloney> They're really pushing having their name on the cups
<cmaloney> Will be interesting to see if my hunch is correct
<cmaloney> because adding rfid to the cup would be expensive.
<cmaloney> but using TM law for "look and feel" would be more direct.
<mrgoodcat> can't wait until all my friends stop asking me to hax0r wifi for them and instead ask me to hack their coffee
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: No doubt.
<rick_h_> moka pot!
<rick_h_> you get a moka pot and you get a moka pot!
<brousch> rick_h_: Are you having a stroke?
<mrgoodcat> just get a french press and call it a day
<rick_h_> brousch: not yet, but it's planning for Sat
<mrgoodcat> my mom uses a chemex
<brousch> What happens Saturday?
<mrgoodcat> i had an aeropress at school
<rick_h_> brousch: I run out of battery juice and have my stroke
<mrgoodcat> 2 stroke or 4?
<brousch> Camping?
<rick_h_> brousch: trying to, it's in the shop and they 'forgot' to fix it yesterday
<rick_h_> but mainly working
<rick_h_> working working working working what day is it working
<jrwren> omfg... beware.
<rick_h_> of the pie
<jrwren> amateur tip: the order of -lliba -llibb MATTERS GREATLY, maybe.
<jrwren> that means in setup.py with ext_modules Extension(libraries=[...]) too
<mrgoodcat> haha
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Oh that's no good.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: If you want you can tent out in our backyard.
<cmaloney> I'll run an extension cord.
<rick_h_> heh, oh I'll be at the campground at some point today
<cmaloney> It's sort of like a KOA. :)
<rick_h_> and I better have good 4g out there
<rick_h_> close to the hwy so should be good
<brousch> We are going to Silver Lake Jellystone on June 7
<rick_h_> cool, jellystone is supposed to be a nice chain
<brousch> That one is right by Silver Lake, which is a weird little lake behind a huge Lake MI dune
<widox> I was there last summer - pretty nice campground
<widox> you can even take a ride with Yogi Bear!
<brousch> That reminds me, I need to show some Yogi Bear cartoons to my kid before then so he knows who the heck that is
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> "we must bring a pick-i-nick basket"
<brousch> This trip is a 2 night trial of our new tent and camping stuff before the bigger camping events
<rick_h_> very cool
<brousch> widox: You went to Jellystone without kids?
<cmaloney> brousch: Why is that a bad thing?
<cmaloney> From Shostakovich to:
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Watching Over You (Battery Cage remix) by Solitary Experiments on Cause & Effect
<widox> brousch: went with buddy and his daughter
<brousch> Just seems weird, like going to Chuck E Cheese without a kid
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's last track - The Lost Elysion by Xandria on Neverworld's End [9 May 2014, 13:29]
<jrwren> sounds about right. I didn't know we had a last.fm bot here :)
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> netsplit?
<cmaloney> I have those messages on /ignore.
<mrgoodcat> it wasn't a netsplit
<mrgoodcat> irccloud burped
<mrgoodcat> actually maybe it was
<mrgoodcat> i should say i don't know
<mrgoodcat> but my other server hiccuped at the exact same instant
<brousch> I was fine
<mrgoodcat>  _stink_, dzho, JonathanD and UnFixed all had ping timeouts
<JonathanD> ow.
<cmaloney> I think notifications work. :)
<mrgoodcat> ohoops
<mrgoodcat> didn't mean to ping everybody
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> oh well
<JonathanD> It was a linode issue.
<mrgoodcat> i'm not on linode
<mrgoodcat> http://allofbach.com/en/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/oxq4SF - Homepage - All of Bach
<mrgoodcat> wish i could think of a good way to index the "usefulness" of the title text and not display stupid titles
<cmaloney> That's pretty cool, but wish it could be downloaded / shared outside of their site.
<cmaloney> I <3 FedEx
<cmaloney> Only they could take a package from Ohio and give an estimate that it'll take a week to deliver.
<cmaloney> I could drive to Cleveland sooner.
<mrgoodcat> i h8 fedex
<cmaloney> And knowing FedEx they'll likely meet that estimate.
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Drown in Me by Xandria on Eversleeping
<mrgoodcat> Nice choice
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Down The Slopes Of Death by Amon Amarth on Versus The World
<mrgoodcat> lol@atom
<mrgoodcat> >only supports mac
<mrgoodcat> >works fine on linux
<mrgoodcat> >start it up on a mac for the first time
<mrgoodcat> >crashes
<mrgoodcat> >mfw
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/oracles-java-api-code-protected-by-copyright-appeals-court-rules/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/D7ThbV - Oracleâs Java API code protected by copyright, appeals court rules | Ars Technica
<cmaloney> fuck
<ColonelPanic001> did I just wake up some years ago?
<ColonelPanic001> wasn't this big news then?
<ColonelPanic001> leave stuff alone omg
<cmaloney> That's the apellate version
<cmaloney> Also, I'll say it again: All the folks who screamed bloody murder over Mono but not over Java need to apologize to Microsoft.
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: what were folks saying?
 * mrgoodcat doesn't remember anything like that
<cmaloney> www.mono-project.com/MonoConcerns
<brousch> cmaloney: Well remember that Microsoft was more evil at that time, and Java was from friendly Sun
<cmaloney> Yep. i bought into the hype.
<brousch> "Linux is not in the public domain. Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches. That's the way that the license works."
<brousch> Oh, hey guys, feel free to use this code from us
<mrgoodcat> https://coreos.com/blog/coreos-beta-release/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/yym3fR - CoreOS Beta Release
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-10
<greg-g> well fuck: http://www.fosspatents.com/2014/05/oracle-wins-android-java-copyright.html
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/TOawcT - FOSS Patents: Oracle wins Android-Java copyright appeal: API code copyrightable, new trial on fair use
<rick_h_> pretty much
<rick_h_> the world is heading down hill
<rick_h_> man, feel like I took sleeping pills last night so groggy and hard to get up today
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think you gave yourself permission to sleep last night. :)
<rick_h_> gotta love the move to github https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pulse shows how it's been heh
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/2ia208 - Pulse Â· juju/juju-gui Â· GitHub
<cmaloney> Either that or you were "celebrating" a little too much
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, went to bed by 9:30
<rick_h_> first time in weeks and weeks
<jrwren> yeah
<jrwren> oracle--
<jrwren> if this goes to SCOTUS and goes the wrong way it could be VERY bad.
<jrwren> imagine ATT invoking copyright on its early unix API
<jrwren> and (C) is for 95yrs or whatever, so there would be no more free software.
<jrwren> no more WINE
<jrwren> no more Mono
<jrwren> no more lots of things.
<jrwren> GAH! I am getting angry again just thinking about it.
<greg-g> jrwren: :) :) g'morning
<greg-g> jrwren: hahaha re .NET retweet ;)
<cmaloney> Putting my slides together for Linux Gaming
<cmaloney> (Giving this talk at MUG)
<rick_h_> oh, I should be doing slides
<shakes808> Morning all.
<cmaloney> Hey shakes808
<cmaloney> What's "shakes-ing?"
<shakes808> Not a whole lot. Just was glancing over that oracle android article. Glancing turned into glazed over trying to understand it
<cmaloney> Well, here's the simplified version
<cmaloney> Oracle needs to die in a fire.
<cmaloney> :)
<shakes808> Alright.   Sounds like they are trying to take Foss away?
<shakes808> cmaloney, what are putting together for linux gaming?
<shakes808> jrwren, what are you saying about Mono? Is that due to the Oracle thing? Are you referring to MonoDevelop?
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-11
<jrwren> ugh... was just pointed out that this (C) API thing is a reason why maybe projects didn't copy amazon AWS api.
<rick_h_> :/
<rick_h_> oh man, missed it by one number https://pastebin.canonical.com/109999/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/WR7tGb - OpenID transaction in progress
<dzho> > need to apologize to  Microsoft.
<dzho> um, no.
<dzho> that one company has done something evil doesn't negate another company having done something evil.
<dzho> the best you can take away from this is that companies are a land of contrasts.
<dzho> mutable, amoral amalgamations of personalities and agendas that make for fickle "friends"
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> dzho: I mean regarding Mono and all of the nasty thing the community said were possible
<cmaloney> None of which came to pass outside of Oracle.
<rick_h_> morning
<dzho> cmaloney: they're still possible
<cmaloney> True, it is
<dzho> oh, the other thing about companies:  potentially immortal
<cmaloney> But I find it still ironic that Java got a small pass from the community while Microsoft was accused of all sorts of treachery
<dzho> yes, giving Java a pass was a mistake
<cmaloney> yet Java is demonstrating that same treachery.
<dzho> and I know hardcore free software types who, if anyone whines about this, would definitely be all "I'll told you so"
<cmaloney> dzho: Agreed. The community should have pressed harder on Sun / Oracle to get the language more open
<cmaloney> Same here. Identi.ca is full of them. :)
<dzho> even back in the day, they were being jerks about stuff.  cf, the licensing of ZFS
<dzho> this is what bugs me now about the systemd controversy.
<dzho> I see Poettering as something of a de Icaza, nattering on about how people are just stuck in their ways and just hate progress and we have to compete and blah blah blah
<dzho> I mean, it's 20 years after the Unix Wars, we've seen this stuff play out several times before already.
<cmaloney> Haven't followed systemd enough to form an opinion
<dzho> cmaloney: yeah, but the freedesktop stuff is really starting to pervade the distros more generally, so . . . you're soaking in it, at any rate
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know it's going to affect me at some point
<cmaloney> Just haven't taken the time to dig deeper.
<dzho> I'm trying to acclimatize myself.  I get irked when I have to go digging into some weird settings file somewhere outside my home dir, but recently discovered "udisks" for managing USB hard drives.
<dzho> cmaloney: so, usually, it's less me actively seeking it out and more me having to find out how to do what I want with the way things are now.
 * dzho should catch up on identi.ca a little bit
<cmaloney> https://identi.ca/snapl
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/uGzkZe - Craig Maloney - Identi.ca
<cmaloney> Still there. Still posting. :)
<dzho> is there some way to see a general timeline?
<dzho> if I go to identi.ca I just get the insipid pump.io splash page
<gamerchick02> morning
<dzho> howdy
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, i can't seem to follow you with my micro.fragdev account
<gamerchick02> *le sad*
<gamerchick02> pumpio is a dorkio
<cmaloney> dzho: There really isn't a general timeline unfortunately
<cmaloney> they made it completely decentralized.
<cmaloney> Which is a bit of a pain in the ass.
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: What's your URL?
<gamerchick02> http://micro.fragdev.com/gamerchick02
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/GJogOL - Amy H. (gamerchick02) - Micro.Fragdev.com
<gamerchick02> whoa
<gamerchick02> bookiebot? didn't know there was a bot in here!
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: That's a Statusnet instance
<gamerchick02> bots everywhere!
<cmaloney> it's not compatible with pumpio
<gamerchick02> well poo
<gamerchick02> not fair
<cmaloney> You should have an identi.ca account.
<gamerchick02> i do
<gamerchick02> i don't use it
<gamerchick02> i can't get it to connect to very many things, lol
<cmaloney> Yeah, I find I don't use it that much either.
<cmaloney> The one that I use most of all is Google+
<gamerchick02> cool, i'll hang with you there
<gamerchick02> :-P
<jrwren> zomg, I missed stupid conversation this morning.
<jrwren> potentially immortal? or immoral?
<cmaloney> Both. :)
<jrwren> just like humans. companies are no different... cept they are potentially immortal
<dzho> well, amoral
<dzho> that is, neither moral nor immoral--it's something that just doesn't apply
<dzho> oh, duh
 * dzho didn't see the t
<dzho> no, I meant immortal
<dzho> like, how old is general electric?
 * dzho looks
<dzho> 1889
<dzho> and, you can chop them up into pieces and those pieces keep going, like zombies
<dzho> cf, Merck and Bayer doing a big shuffle of business lines recently
<jrwren> didn't someone write a piece a while back about how everything can be traced back to east india tea co?
<cmaloney> BTW: At the MUG meeting I'll be raffling off an ASUS 7750 card.
<cmaloney> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121655
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/84IXrI - ASUS HD7750-DCSL-1GD5 Radeon HD 7750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card - Newegg.com
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-04
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> We'll be starting the meeting in about 5 minutes
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/915/detail/ <- Meeting notes
<jrwren> Lucid EOL announce.
<jrwren> First meeting in a post Lucid world :)
<cmaloney> Yep.
<cmaloney> Let's get started
<cmaloney> So the first item is we're also in a post-penguicon release party world
<cmaloney> I'm hoping to get the photos up online soon now.
<cmaloney> But suffice to say it was quite awesome to see everyone out there.
<cmaloney> Not sure if there's anything else coming up event-wise so if somoene has something please post it to the mailing list
<cmaloney> That's all I have for now
<cmaloney> anyone have anything else?
<cmaloney> Will hold the floor open until around 10pm
<cmaloney> but if not hope you have a great May. :)
<jrwren> tomorrow morning: http://ubuntuonair.com
<cmaloney> oh, right
<cmaloney> Ubuntu Online summit approacheth tomorrow
<_stink_> present!
<cmaloney> mooing
<rick_h_> moooooning?
<cmaloney> moo
<jrwren> i'm counting down.
<jrwren> 2hrs
<rick_h_> heh same here
<rick_h_> window open with countdown timer
<rick_h_> here's hoping for wraskally wabbit
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> doubtful as warner would have a fit
<jrwren> the youtube window or http://itsalmo.st/#markskeynote ? :)
<jrwren> oh man, wraskally wabbitt would be hilarious
<rick_h_> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22507/mark-shuttleworths-pre-uos-keynote-and-qa/
<cmaloney> Too bad Youtube broke my Logitech Squeezebox plugin. I wouldn't mind listening in via the Squeezebox.
<cmaloney> Huh, apparently I can use it.
<cmaloney> Interesting
<rick_h_> cmaloney: cool, I saw something squeezebox related the other day and thought of you with it.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Something along the lines of "There's still people using this?"
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> damn, I wish I could remember what it was. It sounded cool
<jrwren> I get angry thinking about the sad state of music players.
<jrwren> spotify and pandora on a mobile device is the exact opposite of what I want :(
<cmaloney> jrwren: Try being the owner of a Squeezebox. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: isn't it all unicorns and rainbows, because it works?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: oh, it was the new synology that lmorchard picked up and tweeted about
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ah, cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, they have SB Server support in there.
<jrwren> will squeezeslave run on raspberrypi ?
<jrwren> oh, squeezelite
<cmaloney> jrwren: squeezelite will, but you'll want a new DAC
<rick_h_> cmaloney: right, he got that ds214play and it does squeezebox support and streaming for your media/etc
<cmaloney> rick_h_: nice!
<jrwren> cmaloney: run it through a TV? :)
<jrwren> damn shame about rpi dac
<jrwren> I wonder if beagleboneblack has a better DAC
<jrwren> or odroid C1
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's not insurmountable, but by the time you get everything in place it's almost as much as a used SB
<cmaloney> Not sure on the BBB DAC, but it doesn't have an audio jack
<cmaloney> so you'd need to run through cape or HDMI
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh. I wasn't sure.
<jrwren> cmaloney: its downstairs from me :)
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/DS214play#overview
<cmaloney> BBB serves different purpose than RPi
<cmaloney> BBB is a microcontroller computer
<jrwren> huh?
<jrwren> no it isn't.
<cmaloney> RPi is the rebirth of the Sinclair ZX series
<jrwren> its an ARM processor just like rpi.
<jrwren> only diff is community
<cmaloney> jrwren: Different design goals
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> no analog out on odroid c1 either ;(
<jrwren> i wonder how hard it would be to use GPIO for that :)
<brousch> Surely there's a USB dongle for that
<cmaloney> https://volumio.org/project/
<jrwren> of course, but like cmaloney said, then the price gets to about the same as other options.
<cmaloney> https://www.hifiberry.com/dac
<jrwren> WAY too much $$
<cmaloney> Right. You can find a used SB radio from $150-$200 at that rate
<cmaloney> or an old laptop. :)
<jrwren> DAC ICs aren't cheap eh?
<cmaloney> Good ones aren't terribly cheap.
<cmaloney> I think it's also the volume they're producing
<cmaloney> eg: price might come down if there was sufficient demand
<jrwren> that is a card. I'm thinking, buy a DAC IC and wire it up yourself.
<jrwren> ICs are usually cheap.
<cmaloney> That's an option. :)
<jrwren> all the 16bit DAC i'm finding are $20 range.
<cmaloney> http://www.aliexpress.com/price/burr-brown-dac_price.html
<cmaloney> Not sure if this is indicitive.
<ColonelPanic001> my listing request for WSU's ubuntu mirror has been "pending review" for over a month now :(
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: You need to do something to change that
<jrwren> yup, and that is 24bit, right?
<cmaloney> believe so
 * cmaloney knows not a whit about burr brown DACs outside of they're _the_ brand name for DACs.
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: I dont' know what Merit is like these days. 12 years ago they shut us down running mirrors pretty quick.
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: I alreayd just complained in IRC, what more can I do?
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Your work here is done
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: also, wsu mirrors in the past had a 5 concurrent user limit which made it rather useless as an official mirror
<cmaloney> (honestly I have NFC what else needs to happen)
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: hm. We've had this one a while (and it's not something I'm doing on my own, it was handed to me when _stink_ left us), haven't heard complaints yet...
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: pft, that is pathetic. Shouldn't be the case now.
<cmaloney> blame _stink_
<jrwren> hehe, maybe it is the same one.
<ColonelPanic001> we did change machines not long ago, right before _stink_ left, maybe the old machines were set up stupid like that
<ColonelPanic001> it was dumb - seperate machines for internal and external. The internal one you had to log into with your university creds. Can't have just anyone using CPAN!
<_stink_> no limits
<_stink_> anymore
<ColonelPanic001> I have no idea who thought that wasn't an incredibly stupid idea
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001:  That's ridiculous
<ColonelPanic001> it was
<ColonelPanic001> no idea
<_stink_> tHOSE WERE NOT MY FAULT
<ColonelPanic001> it is no longer like that
<cmaloney> Probably the same folks who think putting paper in the printers is somehow depleting university resources.
<cmaloney> instead of having students put any ol' thing in there to fuck the printers up.
<ColonelPanic001> fwiw, the only limit I know of offhand on it now is apache's maxclients is 256.
<cmaloney> because replacing a fuser every other month == better.
<ColonelPanic001> and I think it just has a 1GB card in there, rather than 10G like our ineternet connection (iirc)
<cmaloney> (not bitter)
<ColonelPanic001> well now to be fair, printing is stupid
<ColonelPanic001> and people that print a lot should be punished
<cmaloney> This was the 1990s when printing was awesome. :)
<cmaloney> and people would print out newsletters with kanji / chinese on them.
<ColonelPanic001> it was never awesome, just more needed
<ColonelPanic001> I had some weird font thing when I printed a Bruce Schneier paper not long ago. Some char was coming up as a Tux
<ColonelPanic001> best printer problem ever
<cmaloney> so someone would put in their resume paper and get boat-loads of Asian characters.
<jrwren> Print is dead.
<ColonelPanic001> iirc, it was a variable in a math thing, some greek char, too. So, technically, it still was sound.
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3v_ogRaTf4
<cmaloney> problem then was they would re-use that page until it was a sea of black.
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: please come tell my coworker that prints stacks of her email, routinely
<ColonelPanic001> I literally went to a meeting where she brought her email, printed.
<ColonelPanic001> C&IT.
<cmaloney> Anyone who prints email needs to be "re-educated"
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Gah
<ColonelPanic001> I agree
<ColonelPanic001> her cube is overflowing with paper
<ColonelPanic001> it's amazing, in its own wya
<ColonelPanic001> way
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> people still do that?
<cmaloney> That's how you know she's a hard worker
<ColonelPanic001> she does
<cmaloney> paper = productivity.
<jrwren> i thought it was weird when people did that 15yrs ago.
<ColonelPanic001> it was.
<cmaloney> jrwren: ++
<rick_h_> psh, everyone know LoC is the true measure of productivity
<cmaloney> rick_h_: that
<cmaloney> rick_h_: is
<cmaloney> rick_h_: so
<jrwren> when printing is free (at office at last job) , I'd print a paper from ACM and read it while I took a long restroom break at the office.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: true
<jrwren> TMI?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, the only printing I usually do is long-form stuff to read that's in PDF, because reading PDFs on screens blows
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's before you had a tablet, right? :)
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: To a certain degree
<cmaloney> I use the tablet for my PDF reading
<ColonelPanic001> I have no tablet
<ColonelPanic001> well, no, I have one of the original Kindle Fires
<jrwren> cmaloney: I don't want to bring a tablet to the restroom, so no. :p
<ColonelPanic001> where PDFs still suck
<cmaloney> jrwren: They wash off. ;)
<jrwren> i'm surprised by how little I use tablets. They are supposed to be this great thing and I barely use them.
<ColonelPanic001> meh, they have all the power of a laptop, without the nice keyboard, and my phone can be used for read-only for most things
<ColonelPanic001> my cheap phone acts like a tablet I can put in my pocket, basicaly
<ColonelPanic001> larger screen is nice. Pocket-sized for carrying around at all times is nicer
<cmaloney> Yeah, same here
<jrwren> same.
<cmaloney> though reading on the phone is problematic for anything that doesn't reflow
<cmaloney> so that gets used for eBooks / ePub
<jrwren> luckily ebooks reflow
<cmaloney> PDFs don't.
<jrwren> :(
<cmaloney> and I print my read / review to PDFs.
<jrwren> huh?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, reading a PDF on a large kindle or something would be nice, but not hundreds of dollars nice
<cmaloney> Articles on the web that I want to read later.
<jrwren> oh man, it would be reasonably easy to write a browser plugin that is print to epub.
<cmaloney> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dotepub/okpfiebkkmjcnodegbbbiellepfhoglm?hl=en
<jrwren> any good?
<cmaloney> Just searched.
<cmaloney>  :)
<jrwren> something new to try :)
<cmaloney> Apparently it doesn't do well with a lot of images
<cmaloney> which is expected.
<jrwren> not really.
<jrwren> epub is html+css
<jrwren> image should be fine.
<cmaloney> Well, it doesn't put the images in there.
<jrwren> someone wrote a poor plugin :p
<ColonelPanic001> Yeoman Rand died :\
<cmaloney> Yeah, sad
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IfgX-k7Hag the boss-man speaketh
<jrwren> no wicked wolverine :(
<rick_h_> what is it?
<rick_h_> wily werewolf?
<brousch> wacky wallabe
<cmaloney> descent dropbear
<brousch> Will Canonical shut down all operations and liquidate after Z?
<rick_h_> brousch: that's my retirement plan
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> brousch: Not after aantsy aardvark
<cmaloney> until after
<cmaloney> God, Carly Fiorina is running for president
<ColonelPanic001> who?
<jrwren> former HP CEO
<jrwren> many techies feel that she ruined the company.
<ColonelPanic001> sounds perfect then
<jrwren> i don't know why these CEOs bother. Has a CEO ever been elected president?
<jrwren> so stupid they cannot learn from history. If Perot couldn't do it, you can't either :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: hah
<greg-g> cmaloney: jrwren ColonelPanic001 : http://carlyfiorina.org/
<greg-g> trust me
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> 20,000 or 30,000 smileys.
<greg-g> if you go to the bottom:
<greg-g> That's 30,000 people she laid off. People with families. And what does she say she would have done differently?
<greg-g> "I would have done them all faster."
<greg-g> âCarly Fiorina
<jrwren> whoa... if I read that right, microsoft just announced an openstack competitor. You can run your own azure in your own DC
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, pretty much
<rick_h_> ok, here we go https://plus.google.com/collection/451AQ
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> it's almost like the blog you always wanted. :)
<rick_h_> heh guess so
<rick_h_> so split my world up into 4 collections. Now folks can follow the rick they want to and I'll definitely start posting more
<cmaloney> Nice. :)
<cmaloney> I did a little as well. Going to start using them more.
<cmaloney> Never liked the circles for posting.
<cmaloney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10986592/
<cmaloney> seems legit.
<cmaloney> From an address with sigaint.org
<cmaloney> Which apparently is an onion remailing service.
<cmaloney> Yeah, no.
<greg-g> why wouldn't someone doing bitcoin wallet escrow NOT send recruiting emails via a remailer?
<greg-g> all seems legit to me ;)
<cmaloney> I don't think there's a non-preopsition word in there that doesn't raise a red flag.
<greg-g> I'm actually surprised you got a remailer message through your spam filter
<cmaloney> It has a SPF record
<cmaloney> so it worked.
<cmaloney> Looks like I'll have to put in a special rule to block that domain
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-05
<shakes808> Evening everyone
<_stink_> yo
<shakes808> I have been looking for a .NET Fuzzy Logic library for work, does anyone know of a good one?
<cmaloney> Everyone OK? Apparenthy there's been a gas explosion in CHelsea
<cmaloney> gas main
<_stink_> dang
<greg-g> a 20inch gas main... dang
<greg-g> http://www.heritage.com/articles/2015/05/04/chelsea_standard/news/doc554838a3b144b435508765.txt
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<ColonelPanic001> I need someone to whine at about Ubuntu people taking a month to list this releases mirror
<ColonelPanic001> "take my bandwidth damnit"
<ColonelPanic001> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30056042/how-to-match-numbers-ranging-from-400-to-550-with-regex/30056207
 * ColonelPanic001 flips a table
<greg-g> I'm hiring: https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/62416
<greg-g> (and at least 3 more, different, "Release Engineer", positions soon too)
<_stink_> CALLED IT!
<cmaloney> greg-g: You guys are running Ruby?
 * cmaloney reverses the charges on his donation to Wikimedia
<greg-g> our browser test infra has ruby, yeah
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> watir etc
<jrwren> could be worse, could be JVM
<cmaloney> Can't argue that.
<greg-g> we do use Jenkins though ;)
<greg-g> but, the plan for the next year is to get rid of it :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, we "use" jenkins
<greg-g> basically, we're about 5 steps behind OpenStack (upstream) CI infra
<cmaloney> as in there's a Jenkins instance that sits idle.
<greg-g> (at any given time, we copy them for most things)
<jrwren> we do too, and elasticsearch and logstash. the JVM use makes me cry
<greg-g> yep, ES is our main search index/provider
<greg-g> and a second cluster for Logstash+Kibana
<greg-g> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<greg-g> that is all
<jrwren> +1
<_stink_> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-06
<cmaloney> +1
<ColonelPanic001> I forgot aisrael was in here
<ColonelPanic001> hi Adam
<aisrael> Hey hey!
<ColonelPanic001> crap, is flavio in here too?
<ColonelPanic001> can we have a TrafficEngine reunion?
<ColonelPanic001> I forgot his nick, arg. I'd know it if I saw it though, probably.
<_stink_>  --> n0p
<ColonelPanic001> crap, I thought so, then thought it was longer before
<_stink_> n000000000000p
<ColonelPanic001> n0p3
<n0p> :lol: sup guys
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<n0p> my email alert thingy still works \o/
<ColonelPanic001> I like when my thingys work
<ColonelPanic001> thingys. thingies. whichever looks slightly less absurd.
<n0p> whats the tl;dr on http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2600-1/
<n0p> haven't looked at it yet
<jrwren> n0p: local attacker, so not a remote issue.
<jrwren> n0p: i don't know about you, but I haven't managed systems where local users couldn't sudo to root in many years.
<jrwren> n0p: also, that is utopic. Most folks use LTS for production.
<n0p> jrwren: :thumbsup: i got a bunch of alerts, thought i saw 14.04, may have grabbed wrong link
<n0p> jrwren: concurl on the local users, just wasn't sure if it was something that could be exploited through local user: www-data
<n0p> jrwren: but thanks for the info
<n0p> s/concurl/concur/
<n0p> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2598-1/
<n0p> filed under "walk don't run"
<jrwren> oh, it got a different USN
<jrwren> that is, kind of annoying.
<n0p> yeah, got small handful of the same message different versions
<n0p> guess in case the fix is different per release Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<n0p> after all the ssl activity in the last 12 months, getting used to "jump on alerts" mode
<n0p> jrwren: sounds like a SEM.js on Monday @Nutshell, you going?
<jrwren> yeah, and I wonder if hosting providers are scrambling.
<jrwren> n0p: yes, I plan to be there. 2 yr anniversary.
<jrwren> last year the lightning talks were REALLY GOOD
<n0p> yeah, i haven't looked at the lineup this time
<n0p> I've been so busy, missing lots of stuff, kinda nice that we have them here, kinda a built in "will attend"
<jrwren> that is what a lot of the folks at Arbor said when tehy used to meet at arbor.
<n0p> jrwren: you aware of this: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20150222/NEWS/302229974/investors-see-downtown-ann-arbor-as-hub-for-tech-startups
<n0p> pretty excited about it
<cmaloney> Email subject for the day:  Did you know the Prophecy when you were born
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney was born in accordance with a prophecy
<jrwren> n0p: nope.
 * jrwren reads
<cmaloney> Oh this whole email is comedy gold
<jrwren> n0p: which buildings are they buying?
<cmaloney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10997302/
<n0p> tbh, not sure what i can disclose, but they should be closing this month so more info can get out. they are close by to our place now
<cmaloney> n0p: That's awesome
<jrwren> hahaha, I remember walking by coolhouse labs last summer thinking "WTF?"  because the 1000 person town harbor springs has no business having a tech startup :p
<n0p> yeah, seems crazy
<jrwren> I get the appeal. I want to work at a startup in harbor springs, at least in teh summer I do :)
<brousch> Heh, I think little traverse bay still has ice on it
<jrwren> NO WAY!
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> well, I did say summer. :)  That means July, Aug, Sept :)
<brousch> http://blogs.woodtv.com/2015/05/06/71996/
<jrwren> now I want to be in Harbor Springs in August.
<brousch> I look more at St. Joseph as where I'd like to be
<jrwren> I've never been there.
<jrwren> so close to benton harbor makes me think riots will break out. I must have the wrong impression.
<brousch> Great beach, short train to chicago, in between my families in Niles and Grand Rapids
<brousch> The river separates them, and they are two different worlds
<jrwren> only an hour drive to Munster, IN. I'm sold. Vacation there next summer!
<brousch> When I played baseball in high school we played St Joe and Benton Harbor. St Joe had the nicest stadium in the league, Benton Harbor had the worst
<jrwren> ha!  sounds like Pontiac and Bloomfield Hills for me.
<brousch> It was essential a dirt lot, but the the dirt was sharp gravel
<brousch> No grass at all
<cmaloney> Sounds about right.
<brousch> Also, there are a dozen wineries within about 30 minutes of St Joe
<brousch> Good ones
<aisrael> n0p: !
<cmaloney> I had not considered this
<jrwren> brousch: breweries?
<n0p> aisrael: hi! how are you?
<aisrael> n0p: Hey man! Pretty good, you?
<n0p> doing well
<rick_h_> aisrael: how was malta? you go diving with folks?
<n0p> keeping very busy, work, kids
<aisrael> rick_h_: Malta was pretty cool. Lots of history there. I wish I'd stayed over an extra day to take a tour. No diving for me, though.
<aisrael> n0p: Good to hear!
<n0p> aisrael: how has CA life been? pets? wife? (all good I hope)
<ColonelPanic001> Malta, there's an interesting one
<jrwren> The pics I saw of Malta were beautiful.
<jrwren> I wonder if the beer was better than Nuremberg
<aisrael> n0p: Oh yeah, everything's going pretty great. Got my permanent residence, mostly settled in (about a half hour from the border), and working with jcastro and like, a fifth of the channel it seems. :D
<cmaloney> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I dind't realize you were working there now, nice
<aisrael> ColonelPanic001: Yep! Since last August.
<brousch> jrwren: I'm not sure. I've only been to The Round Barn which is maybe 25mins from there
<jrwren> new retirement idea: open a brewery in St. Joseph
<brousch> I see one on Google maps, but I'd think there should be 2 or3
<ColonelPanic001> aisrael: congrats
<brousch> But I may be biased by the density of things in GR
<jrwren> brousch: population 8365. 1 brewery is probably enough.
<brousch> The one I found is technically in Benton Harbor
<jrwren> Greenbush!!!
<jrwren> sawyer is what? 10min down i94?
<brousch> Maybe 15
<jrwren> I love greenbush.
<brousch> I don't think I've tried any of theirs
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> Greenbush is cool because each of their beers is different than the usual. They don't do anything standard.
<cmaloney> brousch: How is the Beer Barrel Bourbon from New Holland?
<brousch> I just ran out of beer. I'll have to get some tonight
 * cmaloney saw it at Meijer and was sorely tempted.
<jrwren> cmaloney: its good.
<jrwren> cmaloney: but nothing too special I'd say.
<cmaloney> jrwren: What's the closest bourbon you'd compare it with?
<brousch> I need one of these beer apps so I can keep track of what I've tried
<cmaloney> Is it $30 special?
<cmaloney> 'cause $30 buys a lot of nice scotch. ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: its hard for me to say. I really like Bulleit and I'd choose Bulleit over it 99% of the time.
<cmaloney> How about Maker's Mark?
<jrwren> much better than maker's
<cmaloney> That seems to be my go-to for Bourbon
<brousch> Bummer, we dropped to #8 best beer city http://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/best-beer-cities-in-america
<cmaloney> brousch: That's unthinkable.
<jrwren> kinda like a Knob Creek, maybe. IIRC
<jrwren> that list is wrong.
<cmaloney> OK, so not like a sour mash like Jack / Jim
<jrwren> GR is #1 beer city.
<jrwren> MI is #1 beer state.
<jrwren> cmaloney: NOOOO
<jrwren> cmaloney: its definitely a sipping bourbon
<cmaloney> ++
<brousch> Well the cities that are ahead of us are quite a bit larger
<jrwren> pfff.. NYC, SF, this is list stupid.
<cmaloney> OK, will have to give it a try
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's pretty silly.
<cmaloney> Seems like one of those lists that's guaranteed to get clicks for being wrong
<cmaloney> or confrontationall
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> I guess if you don't include west mi breweries in the GR list, then maybe GR isn't great.
<jrwren> but if you include all west MI breweries... no other place compares IMO
<cmaloney> well, considering we have Bells the rest of the list is irrelevant.
<cmaloney> It's like comparing potato chips
<jrwren> hehehe
<cmaloney> Better Made. Game. Set. Match.
<jrwren> I wish I liked better made, but sugar on potato chips? no TY
<cmaloney> Get the Rainbow Darks
<cmaloney> Sooo good
<cmaloney> It's all the "burned chips" in one bag.
<jrwren> i'll try 'em.
<jrwren> sounds great.
<cmaloney> they're a little more expensive
<jrwren> $10 for a 12oz bag!!! http://www.amazon.com/Better-Made-Rainbow-fashioned-12-5-oz/dp/B008A8FKGI
<cmaloney> about $4 a bag from Meijer
<cmaloney> Amazon prices are stupid
<cmaloney> They're probably $10 a bag in California
<cmaloney> like the Price is Right prices on a can of creamed corn
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> Yeah, you need to look around the grand rapids area, not just in grand rapids
<brousch> Although places like bells and greenbush are pretty far away
<cmaloney> Again, Michigan is a beer state
<brousch> More than an hour away
<cmaloney> I'd pit us against any state, save Ohio
<brousch> definitely
<cmaloney> because Ohio has Great Lakes Brewing
<cmaloney> May as well be in Michigan. ;)
<greg-g> *coughs* Lagunitas *coughs*
<greg-g> which that article probably lumped in with SF, but fuck that, Petaluma!
<jrwren> What is the one up by Muskegon?
<jrwren> grand haven, oddsides.
<jrwren> mmm... oddsides.
<cscheib> odd side has really good stuff
<cscheib> jcastro: do you still pay for a cleaning service?  what's that running you?
<rick_h_> cscheib: $135 every other week here
<cscheib> rick_h_: what's your sqft?
<jrwren> 50% of all my income and I still have to do at least half of the cleaning. :p
<cscheib> haha
<cscheib> my girlfriend thinks "cleaning the kitchen" consists of loading the dishes in the dishwasher... if it doesn't get loaded in a dishwasher, she won't clean it (that includes counters, stove top, pots/pans, baking sheets)
<rick_h_> cscheib: 1400 main floor & half that finished down stairs
<jcastro> cscheib, jill pays for it, I'll ask her tonight
<jcastro> it's not that bad though, it's worth every penny IMO
<rick_h_> +1
<cscheib> I already pay for dog waste removal and landscaping
<cscheib> I figure I may as well go for the trifecta
<rick_h_> hah
<cscheib> since I'm really bad about keeping up on house cleaning
<jcastro> it's nice because your place is always presentable
<cscheib> yea, that'd be nice
<jrwren> cscheib: I knew a single guy around your age who also paid for cooking services
<rick_h_> jcastro: cscheib I find the big thing is you have to pick up for the cleaners to come
<rick_h_> so it forces me to go through the house and do that
<cscheib> I've actually gotten much better about picking up recently
<cscheib> but... there's dog hair EVERYWHERE
<rick_h_> heh, the roomba helps with the pet hair in between cleaner visits
<cscheib> jcastro knows what I'm talking about, I'm sure.  beagle-ish breeds shed like a mofo
<jcastro> nope
<jcastro> not much
<jcastro> some dander
<jcastro> but he's clean
<jcastro> well, compared to most dogs
<rick_h_> our lab is pretty good but she's doing her twice a year shed right now so :(
<cscheib> I can run a swiffer through my house every 2 days or so and come up with a massive pile of hair
<cmaloney> Might look into it for JoDee.
<cmaloney> She swears a blue-streak every time
<_stink_> we pay $80 every two weeks for ours.
<_stink_> it maintains some level of sanity around here
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-07
<cmaloney> helo
<cscheib> EHLO
<cmaloney> Had someone at the coffeeshop say that Python and Linux were "old-school"
<cmaloney> Apparently when you're a hip Android Developer you're allowed to say that. ;)
<cmaloney> Of course if they knew I was dicking with z80 assembler that might be paleozoic-school or some shit
<brousch> cmaloney: Did you ask him what he uses to create Android apps?
<jrwren> just say you are using python3, then its new school cutting edge with a chance of never gonna catch on ;)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> brousch: Didn't think to ask
<cmaloney> "Invitation for *|COMPANY|*"
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's _real_ personal.
<cmaloney> Never mind that apparently I got on some list for this "hackathon" likely through MUG (list was named "Potential Community Partners")
<cmaloney> Three guesses which "hackathon" it was
<cmaloney> Hint: It's the brainchild of someone who I would have to think real hard about making an effort to cross the street and piss on them if they were on fire.
<brousch> Balmer?
<cmaloney> brousch: Guess again
<brousch> Gates?
<cmaloney> brousch: Think more douchey
<brousch> Who is douchier than Steve Balmer!?
<cmaloney> One more guess
<cmaloney> here's a hint: JWZ said of him that you should check your wallet and count your fingers.
<DrDaemonEye> brousch: I know several people who are douchier than Steve Balmer... Just no one famous
<jrwren> I do.
<jrwren> that oracle guy.
<cmaloney> Right, but it's not him
<cmaloney> Michael Arrington was what I was going for
<_stink_> that was like a really bad game show
<cmaloney> _stink_: Leave it to me to keep the circus in it all. :)
<rick_h_> brousch: so let's say I had a nexus 9, and I ran the upgrade for 5.0.2 last night...and this morning it won't get past the spinning loading circles...what would one do next?
<rick_h_> brousch: and they might already ahve tried booting into recovery and clearing the cache as well as doing a factory reset
<cmaloney> Take it to the Apple store? :)
<brousch> I have only had something like that on rooted phones running cyanogenmod
<rick_h_>  / mute cmaloney
<brousch> In those cases I just boot into recovery and use the backup ROM
<brousch> factory reset failed?
<rick_h_> yes
<brousch> Install Linux!
<cmaloney> It doesn't have a SD card on there does it?
<brousch> Which is another way of saying I have no idea
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no sd card
<brousch> You could try letting the battery completely run out
<rick_h_> ok
 * rick_h_ takes it off the charger while it spinny dots
<brousch> :(
<rick_h_> hmm, 6mo old. wonder what the warranty is on this thing
<jrwren> applecare? :)
<cmaloney> https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
<cmaloney> Not sure if you saw this.
<rick_h_> ah, yea since I can get into recovery might be able to reflash the previous versoin.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-08
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> momma?
<_stink_> i'm not yo momma!
<_stink_> i'm discovering that as one adds kids and as those kids get older, there's a tipping point where more dirty dishes are generated than can be cleaned in one dishwasher load per day
<_stink_> so even if i unload/load/run overnight without fail
<_stink_> there is still a growing pile on the counter
<_stink_> my #firstworldproblems reaction is to conclude that i need a bigger dishwasher
<brousch> _stink_: You just need to run it after each meal
<cmaloney> _stink_: You need two dishwashers
<jrwren> lol.
<cmaloney> just remove the cabinets that would be used for dishes and install a new dishwasher
<cmaloney> problem: solved.
<jrwren> reuse your dishes.
<jrwren> you don't need clean ones every meal.
<cmaloney> Use paper plates and say a big FU to the environment.
<cmaloney> or plastic plates
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> disposable plastic plates are the best answer
<_stink_> Glad markets these 'take and toss' plastic food containers
<_stink_> mostly for kids i think
<_stink_> they are just regular plastic containers, marketed as 'use once, throw away'
<_stink_> makes me very sad
<jrwren> me too.
<jrwren> we throw very little away
<jrwren> can get away with taking out the garbage once a month.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Wow
<cmaloney> Get a cat. That'll change things. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: no way
<_stink_> once we are done with diapers i hope we have a lot less
<_stink_> er well, we will have a lot less
<cmaloney> _stink_: That'll likely be in 2020
<cmaloney> ;)
<_stink_> at this rate you aren't far off
<jrwren> recycling and compost gets taken out much more often, if that subdues your surprise :)
<jrwren> sometimes recycling gets filled with amazon cardboard in mere days
<cmaloney> jrwren: I wish they took more as recycling
<jrwren> cmaloney: AA takes a lot
<rick_h_> they let us leave the boxes out of the recycling bin
<rick_h_> and we bought the larger recycling roller bin
<rick_h_> vs the little box
<rick_h_> we fill that every week :/
<rick_h_> 2 bins of mixed recycling plus 5 bags/bundles of cardboard and paper products weekly.
<rick_h_> http://www.smithsdisposal.net/Services/index.html the red one is the recycling bin we had to buy
<jrwren> oh yeah.  AA gives everyone the giant roller bins, becuase a giant truck with mech arm comes and lifts the big roller bins
<jrwren> ours are bigger than that, or that woman is 7' tall
<rick_h_> for recycling? /me is jealous
<cmaloney> yeah, apparnelty AA is our little sancuary of hippie ideals. :)
<n0p> \o/ trash, recycle, and compost bins ftw http://www.a2gov.org/departments/field-operations/trash-recycling/Pages/default.aspx
<brousch> Wait, you send your compost out?
<jrwren> brousch: yes.
<jrwren> brousch: city takes it, puts it all together, then gives folks opportunity to come pick it back up when it is black gold.
<jrwren> its a nice service.
<jrwren> but it better be for what I pay in taxes.
<brousch> That is nice. We have a yard waste service for Wyoming
<jrwren> brousch: so... this is like that, and I think it started that way
<jrwren> but it expanded.
<jrwren> about a year ago they said, "go ahead and throw animal food waste in there too."
<jrwren> because before vegetable scraps were ok, but animal was not
<jrwren> now they take it all.
<jrwren> vegetable kitchen scraps aren't much different from yard waste anyway
<brousch> true
<brousch> animal gets stinky though
<jrwren> that is why the compost is outside :)
<_stink_> jrwren: i'm reusing a plate for lunch today in your honor
<greg-g> wait, did jrwren become the dirty hippy in my absence?
 * brousch sniffs him
<jrwren> hahahaha, my flask-api PR from  Mar 24, 2014  merged today.
<jrwren> greg-g: yes, I am a dirty hippy.
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> greg-g: I garden. I compost. cut my grass with a mechanical that I got from cscheib so I don't have to buy gas.
<greg-g> nice!
<jrwren> i tear up my lawn to grow veggies
<_stink_> <3
<_stink_> i am slowly replacing my lawn too
<_stink_> jrwren: any complaints about the mechanical mower?
<_stink_> i have heard you have to be more diligent
<_stink_> as it doesn't handle long grass well
<greg-g> _stink_: at that point get a scythe
<greg-g> I've always wanted one
<jrwren> _stink_: yes, exactly.  this time of year, every 4-5 days. 7 is too long
<jrwren> _stink_: its a great workout too.
<jrwren> _stink_: so, I like that part, cuz I've not been working otu
<jrwren> greg-g: I do have a scythe like thing. I used it a couple days ago because the mech cutter doesn't do mass dandylions very well
<greg-g> neat!
<_stink_> jrwren: ok thanks. something to consider
<jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/Truper-30307-Serrated-Sharpened-30-Inch/dp/B002UDKY88/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431101389&sr=8-1&keywords=weed+cutter
<jrwren> waving this thing around is FUN
<_stink_> ooo look at all those options of blades
<_stink_> makes me want to go... marauding
<_stink_> jrwren: do you have to sharpen the blades on the mower often?
<jrwren> _stink_: I never have.
<jrwren> _stink_: I think it adds to my workout :)
<_stink_> haha
<greg-g> it's like setting it on HARD
<cmaloney> I wish I could cut our grass with our mechanical mower
<cmaloney> unfortunately it grows like crazy
<cmaloney> And our yard is crazy-hilly.
<cmaloney> Previous owners ran a greyhound rescue or some shit
<cmaloney> so lots of ruts
<brousch> jrwren: The person who merged your flask-api PR is a member of the GRPUG
<brousch> It is all connected!
<rick_h_> brousch: jrwren very cool on the flask pr
<brousch> I like my plug-in electric lawn mower and weed whacker
<brousch> No gas, light enough to hang on the wall
<jrwren> i was more amused by teh flask-api pr being 13mo old
<brousch> I was amused by Jace saying he was taking over maintenance of flask-api because the author lacked time, and now see he is cleaning up old stuff
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> I'm always confused when people like this follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/DrPhiltill
<brousch> He's a planetary scientist at NASA who is followed by David Brin
<rick_h_> well he's got a lovely script to get to 39k follows
<brousch> That seems reasonable for an actual rocket scientist
<rick_h_> I don't think he's picked out by hand 39,000 people to follow
<rick_h_> brousch: for him to follow?
<rick_h_> he's followed by 43k
<brousch> But what could I possibly be doing that he cares about?
<rick_h_> who knows, it's a script
<rick_h_> you did some combination of something that hit an api call
<rick_h_> you were mentioned, or on a 'recent posts' page, or who knows
<brousch> Even 1 of 39,000 is elite
<greg-g> brousch: it happened to me on instagram recently, I followed one musician, so another (less well known) followed me
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-09
<tony-smlr> SMLR about to go live: E151  Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6DtbwxCL8c Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Whassup?
<jrwren> so tired.
<cscheib> jrwren: tired, or hung over?
<jrwren> just tired.
<jrwren> i had 1 beer last night.
<brousch> lightweight!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-10
<cmaloney> evening
<brousch> cmaloney: Here you go, Mr. Emulator Guy http://9to5google.com/2015/05/08/macintosh-ii-system-6-android-wear/
<cmaloney> Howdy
<jrwren> hrm...
<jrwren> don't know how to reply without invoking heehaw
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-09
<_stink_> of belize?
<cmaloney> No, apparently he's back in the USA
<cmaloney> TIL
<cmaloney> Apparently he was running under the "Cyber Party"
<cmaloney> Which either sounds like what happens when you have a bunch of people trying to talk sexy, or what happens when the 1990s decide to have a political party.
<_stink_>  /join #cyberparty ?
<_stink_> damn, no one there
<_stink_> kind of disappointed
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Evening rick_h_. Welcome back(?)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ty, yes back friday night
<cmaloney> How was the away-time?
<rick_h_> the hawaii time was good stuff, the sprint work week was ok...survived but running on empty
<cmaloney> I'll bet
<jrwren> i just sold my 2 - Focus 2001 keyboard with Alps Blue switches.  So long old friends.
<cmaloney> later clickinator.
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> I remember those were pretty awesome keyboards
<jrwren> i loved it, but never could get it working on USB :[
<cmaloney> Like they were the keyboard you got when you didn't want to get the IBM ones
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> Dat J-shaped enter key though
<cmaloney> (shudder)
<jrwren> it was that KB and the shitty Keytronics
<jrwren> the J enter was fine. you'd never notice it.
<jrwren> oh, 'cept the \ in lower right... yeah, I guess you would notice.
<cmaloney> I had a J shaped enter
<cmaloney> that's where | goes
<cmaloney> Not a fan of that layout. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah, i lived on it for so long that going to a moved \ was difficult.
<jrwren> its not the shape of the return that bothered me, its the location of the \
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's partly why I can't use a J enter anymore
<cmaloney> My fingers are too used to these keyboards
<cmaloney> like when I had the Atari 800 I had a hard time moving to keyboards that didn't have " on the 2 key
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> omg I forgot " was on teh 2 key
<jrwren> wasn't ? on the 1 key?
<cmaloney> No, I think ! was on the 1 key
<cmaloney> http://classiccmp.org/dunfield/atarixl/h/800xl.jpg
<jrwren> ah. maybe I'm thinking of a trs80 or something.
<cmaloney> Everything else was mostly standard
<cmaloney> http://www.oldcomputers.net/pics/pet2001-keyboard.jpg
<cmaloney> This one was "abandon all hope"
<jrwren> nope, I have no idea of wtf I am thinkin
<jrwren> hahaha
<cmaloney> And the fucking TI 99/4 a sucked with " on the P key
<jrwren> i thought maybe it was: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Sharp_PC-1500_IMG_4255.jpg
<jrwren> cuz I used that thing a lot
<cmaloney> Hah, the "not Pocket Computer 1" ;)
<cmaloney> how the hell did anyone do any programming on that thing?
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> I did.
<greg-g> hey, at least with http://www.oldcomputers.net/pics/pet2001-keyboard.jpg you can play a card game
<jrwren> i was a child, i had small fingers. :]
<cmaloney> jrwren: I meant the lack of symbols
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, and those symbols got repurposed into ships and other assorted things.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm trying to find a computer with a ? on the 1 key. So far I'm drawing a blank
<cmaloney> Even the oddball machines followed the Atari keyboard layout (mostly)
<cmaloney> Checked OSI, Exidy, Intellevision, and even the APF Imagination
<jrwren> nope, i'm dreaming.
<cmaloney> Jealous of younger you that you had a Sharp 1500. ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: well, my dad had it. I've I'd get antsy, he'd hand it to me and I'd write stupid programs
<jrwren> 10 PRINT "WAHT IS YOUR NAME?"
<jrwren> 20 INPUT X
<cmaloney> jrwren: Heh
<jrwren> 30 IF X = "JAY" PRINT "AWESOME!" ELSE PRINT "LAME!"
<jrwren> 6-7yo me was harsh.
<cmaloney> but fair
<jrwren> I don't think 6-7yr old me used "LAME!" at all, ever.
<cmaloney> best "programmable" toy I had (besides the Atari computer) was Parker Brothers' Merlin
<jrwren> never heard of it.
<jrwren> oh, is THAT what that thing was called. I'd see it around at other kids house.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that was many a trip companion
<cmaloney> unfortunately it met with some accidents
<cmaloney> It used 6 AA batteries
<cmaloney> and we tried converting it to use a single 9V battery
<cmaloney> not sure if my dad still has bits of it in his shop
<cmaloney> wouldn't surprise me if he did
<jrwren> did the 9V converstion not work? too much draw or something?
<cmaloney> http://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-10
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> how goes?
<cmaloney> mug meetin tonight
<cmaloney> I'm not sure if we're "Growing" or if there's some spam deluge brewing but it seems there's at least one or two people per day adding themselves to the Ubuntu MI team
<jcastro> it's spam lately
<jcastro> you might want to consider locking it down for a bit
<jcastro> my inbox is basically hell right now, heh
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's what I figured
<cmaloney> I've been approving them
<cmaloney> but wondering if I might just turn folks away for a bit.
<cmaloney> Speaking of spam, apparently Marilyn Manson wants to join my CC Metal Music community on G+
<cmaloney> so that's a thing. ;)
<jcastro> heh
<greg-g> jcastro: cmaloney hat collectors :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, just found out that Metal Injection isn't syndicating any more outside podcasts
<cmaloney> so there goes my listeners. ;)
<greg-g> dang
<cmaloney> Now I get to see if folks will listen to it on their own. :)
<cmaloney> That's kind of liberating
<cmaloney> And it's not like the shows aren't "re-syndicated" by shady sites. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-11
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<mrgoodcat> i'm enjoying my morning so fr
<cmaloney> Good deal
<mrgoodcat> yesterday the wmu computer club was having lagging issues (800+ms) and we spent the whole day trying to figure out what was going on
<mrgoodcat> last night one of the members decided to reboot the server and at the same time change the port we were connected to on the switch
<mrgoodcat> and now a bunch of people are mad at him because now we'll never know what caused it
<cmaloney> hah
<mrgoodcat> chaos ensues
<mrgoodcat> and i get entertained for a whole morning
<wolfger> mrgoodcat: so... problem fixed, nobody happy about it? LOL
<cmaloney> Welcome to computer club
<cmaloney> where we don't reboot to see if it works.
<cmaloney> http://33.media.tumblr.com/b4b4985451ad0facce55d8752c517aba/tumblr_mtud5kX2T71r7fahjo1_250.gif
<mrgoodcat> well we were all pretty sure a reboot would work, but since this isn't a critical machine people wanted to let it continue running so they could debug the problem
<jrwren> jcastro: i just saw FB.  Congrats!
<cmaloney> For those of us who aren't on FB? :)
<jrwren> Bun in oven.
<jcastro> did my wife post something on fb?
<cmaloney> jcastro: Congrats!
<jrwren> jcastro: she did, yes.
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro> everyone is PMing me on irc
<jcastro> lol
<cmaloney> Funnily enough I found out at Penguicon. :)
<cmaloney> But didn't wnat to say anything until it was more "official"
<cmaloney> <- not breaking release date.
<_stink_> yay!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-12
<cmaloney> morning
<Zimdale> Morning
<cmaloney> 1001001
<mrgoodcat> 73?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah,
<cmaloney> Good afternoon and all that.
<cmaloney> It's 14:20
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/suns-jonathan-schwartz-at-trial-java-was-free-android-had-no-licensing-problem/
<mrgoodcat> my alexa came in today
<cmaloney> nice!
<cmaloney> I expect a fully dictated blog post on it by 5pm
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i wonder if i can dictate blog posts on it....
<cmaloney> Man I <3 Jonathan Schwartz
<cmaloney> Even if he pretty much handed the keys to Sun to Oracle he's still a class act
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> I thought he was a jerk.
<cmaloney> how so?
<jrwren> he ran sun into the ground.
<jrwren> sun was pretty evil with java even before teh oracle acquisition
<jrwren> I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I don't think anything could have saved Sun at that point
<cmaloney> Linux took over the cheap servers
<cmaloney> Java was not something that could be monetized
<cmaloney> Sun's market was middle-tier servers and that market was evaporating
<cmaloney> That and the dot-com boom was pretty much done
<cmaloney> so they got disrupted on several fronts
<cmaloney> and then the recession happened
<jrwren> hrm. could be.
<jrwren> it had already happened and nothing could be done?
<jrwren> still, seems like they could have done better seeing it coming, moving into something else, etc.
<jrwren> Those T1000, T2000 servers were damned sweet.
<cmaloney> I'm not sure you can point to one thing and say "This is where he fucked up, and here's what they could have fixed"
<jrwren> still have more cores than most intel chips, and that was 10yrs ago!
<cmaloney> BFD
<jrwren> I can ;]
<cmaloney> cores schmores.
<jrwren> They sued MSFT. That was a mistake.
<cmaloney> They won vs. MS
<jrwren> Actually... I take it back, suing them was not a mistake.
<jrwren> right.
<cmaloney> and then MS created .NET
<jrwren> and then MSFT... exactly
<jrwren> they should have forced MSFT to give them their extensions and put them into Java 1.3
<jrwren> but they didn't, cuz they are stupid.
<cmaloney> That was a mistake
<cmaloney> but it was also Gates /Ballmer era MSFT
<cmaloney> so unlikely they would have cooperated
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> still, they saw the changes, they could have implemented them themselves.
<cmaloney> They'd sooner nuke the earth than cooperate
<jrwren> and java would have been better for it.
<cmaloney> True
<cmaloney> Thing is Oracle is a more aggressive company
<cmaloney> and has a "killer app" product
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> its terrible.
<jrwren> its sad.
<cmaloney> Sun didn't have that
<jrwren> i only want a better world.
<cmaloney> Oh no doubt
<jrwren> I think i was confusing Schwartz and McNealy
<cmaloney> mcNealy was a jerk
<jrwren> its McNealy and Barksdale who I find reprehensible
<cmaloney> Schwartz was a nice guy
<cmaloney> unfortunately he was a nice guy that got stood up to take the fall
<cmaloney> but he's also a smart person
<cmaloney> and the whole Oracle thing being blamed on him is (I think) not entirely accurate
<cmaloney> The only saving grace is Sun had open licenses on the good bits
<cmaloney> Virtualbox, OpenOffice, and  MySQL (yeah even MySQL)
<jrwren> just how open, we shall see.
<cmaloney> Jonathan's testimony is gold
<jrwren> I saw your link. I didn't click.
<cmaloney> Basically "Google was well within their rights. Oracle has no case"
<cmaloney> Sun would have liked to work more closely with Google, but it didn't pan out
<cmaloney> also: for a CEO he knew his shit.
<cmaloney> I think Schwartz was not CEO material; more CIO material.
<cmaloney> but I'm grateful that he was so loose with the licensing
<cmaloney> in retrospect it's kind of like the Open Gaming License that Wizards of the Coast generated that made something like Paizo possible
<cmaloney> (which was engineered by the people at Paizo who knew their days at WotC were numbered)
<Scary_Guy> Oracle is a mistake, one gigantic mistake
<cmaloney> dressed in a 3 piece suit with a grin and a firm handshake
<Scary_Guy> "Oh Java, OpenOffice.Org, and MySQL are all free, let's start charging for those!"  Wooo, fragmentation!
<cmaloney> I thought they had more trouble with outside contribution than charging
<Scary_Guy> probably that too, but charging just pisses off GNU guys
<cmaloney> Oh, other than the proprietary extensions to MySQL
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2e2c1o/what_do_we_hate_oracle_for/
<cmaloney> God bless Reddit for a breakdown of how to hate. ;)
<Scary_Guy> you'd think it would be 8chan
<cmaloney> That's just blind hate
<Scary_Guy> true
<Scary_Guy> also, fuck, how did I forget Solaris?
<cmaloney> Everyone on non-Sun hardware forgot Solaris
<Scary_Guy> good point
<jrwren> i want to forget solaris
<cmaloney> jrwren: Heh
<cmaloney> Solaris was good when compared with HP-UX, OSF/1 AIX
<cmaloney> insert and in there
<Scary_Guy> that would be a fun 15 minute presentaiton: "Why Oracle sucks"
<cmaloney> but that's like saying you're the nicest dressed person in hell
<Scary_Guy> http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Water-Cooler/
<jrwren> disagree.
<jrwren> i prefered OSF/1
<cmaloney> OSF/1 was decent. It had its moments
<cmaloney> The version of UNIX that DEC had before OSF/1 was pretty terrible.
<jrwren> ultrix
<jrwren> yes, aweful
<cmaloney> God
<jrwren> then osf1 became tru64, which was actually very nice.
<cmaloney> I purged that from memory
<cmaloney> Only reason AIX isn't purged from memory is because
<cmaloney> friends still use AIX
<jrwren> the advfs in osf1, digitalunix and tru64 was like zfs or btrfs light.
<jrwren> really nice.
<cmaloney> Never got that far into it
<jrwren> add a partition to a fs, fs instantly grows
<jrwren> nothing to it.
<cmaloney> Ah, nice.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-14
<cmaloney> Evening
<brousch> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> lazy morning
<rick_h_> zzzzz afternoon?
<jrwren> you aren't going to vancouver yet?
<cmaloney> Just finished up grocery shopping
<cmaloney> lazy afternoon
<rick_h_> jrwren: tomorrow 7am
<jrwren> ugh.
<cmaloney> ugh
<rick_h_> yea car gere at 5am...not sure how i thought this was a good plan
<cmaloney> That does not sound like fun at all
<rick_h_> oh well I think the other choice was to get in way late
<gamerchick02> ooof. i'm doing laundry but my apartment doorknob broke so i waited almost an hour for the guy to show up. no phone, no keys, no money. couldn't even go get an ice cream to pass the time.
<gamerchick02> good luck on your trip to Vancouver, rick_h_
<_stink_> ~yikes!
<gamerchick02> yeah no kidding
<gamerchick02> and ~now~ the one dryer isn't drying properly so my sheets are STILL not done.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-15
<cmaloney> Dear mom and dad: thank you for enough piano lessons to be dangerous:
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwevi12069zs9n/just_enough_to_be_dangerous.ogg?dl=0
<cmaloney> (Made with LMMS, an arpeggiator, and a shit-ton of reverb)
<tony-smlr> We are goign live soon!  SMLR E193/E194 (5/15/2016) Video: http://youtu.be/EX2AX1Zj8Bo
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning from MN
<cmaloney> woo woo
<gamerchick02> afternoon. i watched part of the Manchester City game and it was good.
<_stink_> gamerchick02: ended in a tie?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-08
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> hello
<rick_h> morn
<widox> morning
<rick_h> man, google maps is just crazy these days. I poking at the map and looking around and got https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7387971,-83.3802471,36a,35y,175.15h,78.89t/data=!3m1!1e3
<rick_h> which is kind of crazy that there's a like a little model of my exit and street like that
<_stink_> i like the creepy ghost car at bottom left
<jrwren> little model?
<rick_h> jrwren: does it not show up to you in 3d mode and a view setup down sashabaw?
<rick_h> jrwren: to me it looks like those little models of a city folks would build with trains and such
<jrwren> oh yeah, look at that.
<jrwren> very cool.
<jrwren> the mouse UI is very weird. somehow I can change altitude, but I dont' know what is doing it.
<jrwren> omg, now I'm underground.
<rick_h> ctrl-move with mouse will rotate and do altitude
<jrwren> i think my laptop is too slow for htis.
<rick_h> heh, yea even my macpro has to think on it a few seconds sometimes
<jrwren> its not unusable, but noticibly less smooth in safari than in chrome.
<brousch__> What are we doing now?
<jrwren> lol, i have no idea what road I took, but somehow I followed a road to its end, turned and then ended up in pontiac.
<rick_h> brousch__: I was just making others get involved in my 3d exploring in google maps around my house.
<rick_h> brousch__: check out https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7384158,-83.3801874,38a,35y,175.15h,78.89t/data=!3m1!1e3
<rick_h> brousch__: and give it a few to load
<jrwren> Sashabaw @ Dixie... sheesh, i lived near there for a copule years, I had no idea all those lakes were back there.
<brousch__> wow, high res
<rick_h> yea, it's a very lake heavy place
<rick_h> brousch__: yea, it's crazy to kind of play around like walking through a model train city or something
<jrwren> i also didn't recognize telegrph @ dixie from the air. I should have. I spent tons of time in that area as a kid
<rick_h> I was poking at it the other day as part of looking for photography locations
<rick_h> jrwren: I'm guessing it's a bit different :)
<rick_h> jrwren: when we moved into this house some 10yrs ago most of sashabaw was an empty road on google maps even though there was tons of strip maps down the road length
<brousch__> Heh, suddenly all of my CPUs are pegged and my fan is screaming
<rick_h> brousch__: yea, it's not light on the compute power for sure
<rick_h> hah this one is cool with the water tower on the left https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7389741,-83.3800719,35a,35y,175.15h,78.89t/data=!3m1!1e3
<brousch__> Downtown is pretty neat
<brousch__> It slowly loads better pictures for the buildings
<cmaloney> This looks a lot like a Dreamcast game. :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: lol
<cmaloney> https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7372678,-83.3884275,26a,35y,317.58h,78.53t/data=!3m1!1e3
<rick_h> cmaloney: lmao that's my new neighbors!
<cmaloney> Really?
<cmaloney> Ye gods, their back yard is "interesting"
<rick_h> heh, no but that's funny
<shakes808> https://www.mapd.com/
<shakes808> this seems neat
<brousch__> The ship one is interesting. I zoomed to Muskegon
<jrwren> rick_h: oh!!! "a little model town"  I get it now.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea https://goo.gl/lfFImF
<brousch__> like tilt-shift
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> but with computer rendered sat images which is crazy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-09
<cmaloney> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1252&desc=5
<_stink_> woah
<_stink_> any analysis writeups?
<cmaloney> Haven't seen one yet
<cmaloney> but I think it's akin to grabbing ankles and making love to your buttocks
<cmaloney> they patched it pretty quickly though
<cmaloney> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14296959
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/05/08/open-metalcast-episode-154-make-mine-metal/
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h> howdy
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> mug tonight
<cmaloney> topic: the dark web
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/hNyRO1
<cmaloney> You'll need to add more than that. :)
<cmaloney> Man, I hope you all never have to deal witht eh govt. for unemplyment
<Zimdale> I've heard it's terrible
<cmaloney> They don't quite understand severance payments, and apparently I was "randomly selected" for an audit.
<cmaloney> Wel, most of it isn't bad
<cmaloney> but when you're not an hourly wage worker in an automotive factory it tends to get weird for you.
<cmaloney> Also, the amount of information they ask for as routine is mind-blowing
<cmaloney> Seriously, they askk for your SSN, address, phone #, DOB, and Driver's license
<Zimdale> At least they don't ask for your bank statements
<Zimdale> yet
<cmaloney> They already have them. :)
<shakes808> or your first born
<rick_h> cmaloney: ugh
<cmaloney> Yeah, I get to prove that I'm not a felon
<cmaloney> no pressure. :)
<cmaloney> *eyeroll*
<cmaloney> (since their system isn't terribly clear)
<greg-g> shouldn't they already know that? :(
<cmaloney> Welcome to "your web site isn't geared for that"
<cmaloney> as far as they know I received money in October
<cmaloney> which, as you know, whenever you're receiving money from the government they expect that they're the sole supplier of money to you
<cmaloney> no "go get rich" on that sweet sweet taxpayer dime
<greg-g> I heard that's a thing, yeah, people are queens or something
<cmaloney> Totally
<cmaloney> So now I get to try to convince someone who couldn't care less that I'm not trying to pull one over.
<cmaloney> *yay*
<cmaloney> "Influenster is a social media marketing platform where brands connect with influential consumers who love to share opinions with their social networks"
<cmaloney> I'm not sure how you can write that sentence without needing a shower afterward
<cmaloney> either because you feel dirty or because ... well...
<greg-g> cmaloney: I hate that idea. I hate that word "influencers". I hate that company and their founders most likely.
<jrwren> greg-g: you don't sound influential. :p
<greg-g> I get annoyed with my sister who is a Nerium, uh, pusher
<greg-g> MLM bullshit
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/pXl1c5  <-- made me laugh and shake my head
<jrwren> i had to look it up. http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/nerium-scam/
<greg-g> jrwren: I'd love to share that on facebook but I know it would cause unneeded angst in my immediate family, something I don't need more of :)
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: ++
<cmaloney> hello world
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/b/109767935477156086705/events/c875fuca898agkkbcf9dcl31hc4 <- streaming the MUG meeting now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-10
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> how was the dark web?
<cmaloney> Pretty good. Video is posted up (will get it up on the site shortly)
<cmaloney> But yeah, was a really good talk, and somewhat eye-opening
<jrwren> now you know where to buy drugs?
<wolfger> heh
<wolfger> I didn't see you at Dark Web cmaloney
<cmaloney> 2
<cmaloney> wolfger: ?
<wolfger> I'm assuming you're talking about the pcon panel
<cmaloney> No, I'm talking about the MUG talk from last night
<wolfger> ah
<cmaloney> You would have had to work pretty hard not to see me. :)
<wolfger> now I'm curious if it was the same presentation
<cmaloney> Scot?
<wolfger> I don't recall
<wolfger> darknet on freenode, or some such?
<cmaloney> Nah, this was through Tor and onion URLs
<wolfger> not seeing the point of a darknet for any licit activity... but you never know when they'll make F/OSS illicit. ;-)
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbDFrKxU5eY
<jrwren> sounds like 2 different darknets
<jrwren> err
<jrwren> darkweb v. darknet
<jrwren> darknet traditionally is unused IP space
<jrwren> darkweb is websites on alt network, usually this means tor
<cmaloney> Doing office hours if anyone wants to join: https://meet.jit.si/TactfulBaboonsPaintAnywhere
<shakes808> cmaloney: that's cool, but can't do that at work :(
<cmaloney> No worries
<shakes808> cmaloney: any luck with any prospects?  did that site linked last week yield anything for you?
<cmaloney> shakes808: Not a whole lot shaking
<cmaloney> Have an interview this afternoon, so we'll see how that lands
<cmaloney> But for the most part it's either get front-end development experience quickly or figure something else out
<shakes808> where is your interview today?
<cmaloney> at home
<cmaloney> call in interview
<shakes808> cool, is it a wfh place?
<cmaloney> ideally.
<brousch__> Stupid frontend. Are all of the backends done?
<shakes808> fantastic!  good luch
<shakes808> luck*
<brousch__> Now that everything is a (backend) service most of the work is making frontends for web+ios+android
<cmaloney> shakes808: Thank you.
<cmaloney> brousch__: It's because they don't want to pay two people to do one job
<shakes808> is it a python gig like you want?
<cmaloney> so you get to drift between the front-end and the back-end like a ninja, in an effortless dance
<cmaloney> shakes808: Ideally
<cmaloney> Right now I'm nto sure what I want
<shakes808> There are a lot of .NET jobs out there, supposedly.  I am getting lit up by recruiters for a job in Allen Park, Detroit, and Troy.  I think all .NET or JAVA
<cmaloney> a guarantee that it's going to be OK
<cmaloney> that's what I really want.
<cmaloney> that I can find my place in this crazy topsy-turvy world
<cmaloney> that's what I want
<widox> I've been poking around at listings recently. seems that 90% of them are for Ruby devs
<cmaloney> widox: That's weird
<cmaloney> I've not seen that
<cmaloney> (maybe I haven't looked at that angle)
<cmaloney> Most of what I'm seeing is "We'd really like you to know three languages including Python"
<cmaloney> "and we'd really like you to know Go"
<widox> SO jobs, GitHub jobs and such
<widox> yeah, Go/Python always seem to be paired
<widox> and React all the things
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's all React now
<cmaloney> I swear I'm going to have to make my own job
<cmaloney> but I lack the courage
<widox> cmaloney: also have https://weworkremotely.com/ in my list
<widox> heh
<brousch__> I wonder if the Go+Python is due to people replacing old Python code with Go
<jrwren> brousch__: probably. so sad. they could just move to pypy and be faster :p
<brousch__> I dug into motivations for our change here some more. They don't want to move to Python3, and like Go packaging much better.
<brousch__> The speed improvement is nice, but not a primary motivation
<cmaloney> That it's a Google language is likely part of the motivation
<cmaloney> I'm also seeing a lot more C
<cmaloney> it's all about speed now
<cmaloney> If Android wasn't based around Java I'm sure we'd see less Java as well
<brousch__> Yes
<jrwren> definitely.
<jrwren> there will always be the JVM diehards.
<jrwren> crazy people like netflix :p
<shakes808> jrwren: netflix == no commercials :)
<jrwren> huh?
<jrwren> context shakes808.  context!
<rick_h> wait a minute?! they LIKE the go packaging better?
<rick_h> that's the single most horrible part of Go
<rick_h> like makes me want to commit felony offenses level of horrible
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> rick_h: AFAICT we entered bizarro world in 2012
<cmaloney> where down is up, left is right
<cmaloney> Go packaging is perfect
<cmaloney> Python 3 is terrible
<rick_h> yea, I think someone's high there
<cmaloney> and I'm contemplating a career yelling at pidgeons in the park
<shakes808> jrwren: :( sorry, i am not in the know on that :(
<rick_h> maybe they're saying that they like shipping go build tools since it's just shipping a binary
<rick_h> not the packaging for development, but the delivery
<shakes808> cmaloney: what is wrong with python 3?
<cmaloney> Can say the same for C code
<cmaloney> shakes808: In bizarro world Python 3 is horrible
<jrwren> i don't have an issue with go packaging. I actually agree that it is highly supperior to many things. :)
<jrwren> keep in mind, i pretty much hate go :)
<brousch__> rick_h: Yes, delivery
<jrwren> ah delivery.
<jrwren> I'm REALLY GOOD at python delivery, so while I don't have the challenges... I can see why it might be a challenge :p
<jrwren> esp since I'm dealing with a python delivery issue RIGHT NOW! :)
<brousch__> We build packages for red hat 5 and 7, ubuntu 12.04 14.04 16.04, and FBSD 11
<jrwren> rh5?!?
<jrwren> zomg, yes, that is hell.
<brousch__> The old stuff is being phased out, but of course updates for our stuff still go there until it's completely gone
<brousch__> FBSD 10.something too
<cmaloney> Well, on the plus side my interview was with someone who goes to PyOhio
<cmaloney> so that was nice
<rick_h> cmaloney: <3
<rick_h> cmaloney: network baby!
<cmaloney> Unfortunately he's not going to make it this year
<rick_h> boooo
<cmaloney> But yeah, the whole "how do you keep up" question...
<cmaloney> "Well, PyOhio for starters..."
<cmaloney> Though my first thought was "I haven't, which is why I'm still looking for work..."
<cmaloney> le sigh
<cmaloney> But hey, water under the bridge, right? https://youtu.be/NXPNWFBd3h8?t=20s
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> brousch__: did they ever consider bundling their app with python instead of system python?
<jrwren> at some point, libc is always the common point, and so it is easier to remove anything that gets in your way.
<jrwren> linux+libc as the foundation is a powerful POV which I feel we all forget too oftne.
<brousch__> I don't know. The move to Go started 2 years ago, and I've been here 4 months
<brousch__> And it's not part of my group
<jrwren> yeah. and the old stuff is probably on limp along support, not investing in improvement?
<brousch__> Well it's being replaced piece-by-piece
<shakes808> cmaloney: for your podcast, have you tried getting local talent to play ?  I am sure they would be willing to get some air play :)
<cmaloney> Sure, if they're open to doing CC-licensed material. :)
<cmaloney> I'm only aware of a few MI bands that have released CC
<cmaloney> The Armed, Archana
<shakes808> not sure, i have been out of the local scene for a long time ( > 10 years since i stopped playing out ) but wouldn't hurt to do some "research" and go to some local venues and talk to them :)
<cmaloney> shakes808: Possibly
<cmaloney> shakes808: I don't tend to go to shows though. :)
<shakes808> ... :) I can be that liaison :) I like to support the local scene.  just need to figure out where they are playing now-a-days
<shakes808> i can probably get in contact with some of the bands i used to play with.
<cmaloney> Tell them o put their stuff on Bandcamp with a CC license and we're good-to-go. ;)
<shakes808> Will do :)
<cmaloney> tx
<cmaloney> I mean, there's a bunch of really great metal bands from Detroit
<shakes808> this is one of the bands that my band played with
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/JUU3My
<cmaloney> Temple of Void, Black Dahlia Murder
<shakes808> not sure if they are heavy enough for you :)
<cmaloney> I don't mind groove metal
<cmaloney> https://saprogenic.bandcamp.com/album/expanding-toward-collapsed-lungs
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/mIbZGI
<shakes808> and this one
<cmaloney> Bit a lot of them are signed
<cmaloney> shakes808: Nice!
<shakes808> I know a local recording studio as well, I can talk to :)
<cmaloney> Oh, Battlecross as well
<cmaloney> (Still amazed that Trevor Strnad of TBDM follows me on Twitter)
<cmaloney> But I think he also follows half the damn place. :)
<shakes808> haha with talking music here and with a co-worker, i am listening to things that I forgot about :)
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/y6a8pf
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-11
<shakes808> morning
<_stink_>  yo
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<shakes808> rick_h: you work on some wood projects, if i remember correctly.  What kind of hole saws do you have, if any?
<rick_h> shakes808: I've just got an adjustable kit I use.
<rick_h> shakes808: like http://a.co/cQHkzIv but mine has fewer sizes in it
<shakes808> i was looking at this one: https://goo.gl/oSW48v
<rick_h> shakes808: that pulled up a search list for me so not sure which one you're pointing at
<rick_h> I guess what are you looking for? Feedback if that one is a good kit?
<shakes808> gotcha, it is a 13 piece hole saw kit.
<shakes808> I was looking at Harbor Freight, but not sure of the quality.  Reviews on it say that they are crap ( oval instead of round, dull real easily, ... )  Just wanted to know what you were using because i remember you doing a lot of wood working
<shakes808> so i was looking at home depot and lowes to see what they had
<rick_h> shakes808: gotcha, yea the only kit I've used it like a 7 or 9 saw one from milwaukee
<rick_h> shakes808: has done what I needed but don't use it a ton tbh
<shakes808> rick_h: gotcha.  thank you
<brousch__> shakes808: In general, stuff from Harbor Freight is cheap and crappy.
<brousch__> But sometimes that's all you need
<shakes808> brousch__: yeah, but I have a feeling that I am going to be using it more than once.  Going to make some Cornhole boards. :-)
<jrwren> oh nice!
<cmaloney> There's always a market for cornhole
<greg-g> heh, I let a coworker borrow my belt at an after event party thing in Berlin and she didn't get it back to me before we flew home. She apparently had left it on my desk wrapped around an IPA. But... I don't go to the office anymore. So she's having someone mule it for me to Vienna where I'll be next week
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h> greg-g: that belt needs a frequent travel card
<rick_h> greg-g: but the question is...is the ipa coming with it?
<greg-g> probably not :)
<rick_h> Nooooooooooo
<shakes808> :-(
<greg-g> we have enough IPA out here. And don't forget, I live 3 miles from the primary Lagunita's brewery
<shakes808> greg-g: didn't heiniken just buy the other 50% of them?
<greg-g> which, as of a week or so ago, is now 100% owned by Hieneken :( (for like a billion dollars, seriously)
<greg-g> jinx ;)
<shakes808> haha
<greg-g> in the local newspaper reporting on it, the CEO (who is now something else within Heiniken) said "don't worry, I still wake and bake almost every day"
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> well, heiniken is dutch, right?
<greg-g> true, but he's living here
<greg-g> and, we have a much better supply (quality and quantity) of pot out here :)
<greg-g> (I bet he grows his own, or has someone do it for him, since he's filthy rich now)
<cmaloney> I'm sure he'll wake and bake until he fully vests
<cmaloney> then he'll bail and sail
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> he loves the company/industry, I kinda doubt it. He has full control over what the lagunitas brand does
<shakes808> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/xamarin-live-player-almost-takes-the-mac-out-of-ios-development/
<cmaloney> Interesting
<shakes808> Finally, Microsoft is continuing to embrace Linux developers and toolchains on Windows. The current Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) comes out of the box with support for Ubuntu; later this year, Microsoft is adding official support for a SUSE userland and a Fedora userland. It'll even be possible to install all three side by side, giving your Windows
<shakes808> machine three different Linux personalities simultaneously. The installation of WSL is also simpler, with the three Linux environments all being installed from the Windows Store.
<shakes808> that is pretty cool
<brousch__> I want to get my Linux from the Windows Store!
<jrwren> it has the best battery life of any linux, ever.
<jrwren> sadly, there is technically no linux there at all. no linux kernel.
<brousch__> Ah, so you get your Ubuntu, Fedora, and Suse from the Windows Store, not you Linux?
<jrwren> brousch__: well, technically, yes, but they call them linux, even though there is no linux kernel
<brousch__> This whole thing is making me queasy
<jrwren> which?
<brousch__> Linux in Windows
<jrwren> its really just for devs.
<jrwren> MSFT wants people to use windows and deploy their linux apps to azure and so they support devs to make "linux apps" in windows.
<jrwren> plus, now people can do ruby and nodejs dev in "linux in windows" where previously building certain C modules for ruby/python/node was so difficult it was practically impossible.
<shakes808> seems like pretty soon, Windows will just be a VM for everything to run under haha
<jrwren> but its not a VM.
<cmaloney> it's containers, right?
<rick_h> no, it's not a container really either, no kernel
<rick_h> which is :( since you can't do snaps on there atm
<shakes808> I haven't tried to use linux with windows.   i just have my ubuntu lappy that i load right into :)
<jrwren> right, not containers. Your underlying windows system can interact directly with the linux subsystem and visa versa.
<cmaloney> so they mocked the linux sys calls?
<cmaloney> mock the sys call
<cmaloney> mock the sys call
<cmaloney> sorry...
<shakes808> This isnât a virtual machine, a container, or Linux software compiled for Windows (like Cygwin). Instead, Windows 10 gains a Windows Subsystem for Linux, which is based on Microsoftâs abandoned Project Astoria work for running Android apps on Windows.
<jrwren> exaclty.
<shakes808> https://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/
<jrwren> not exactly mocked, but they reimplmenet the syscalls and pass to NT kernel
<shakes808> Microsoft has worked with Canonical to offer a full Ubuntu-based Bash shell that runs atop this subsystem. Technically, this isnât Linux at all.
<shakes808> I don't know.  I would rather just use straight lisux
<shakes808> linux*
<cmaloney> same
<cmaloney> or just have Microsoft put in some effort into WINE so we can treat it likenthe legacy system Wkndows is. ;)
<cmaloney> sine this seems like reverse-Wine for Windows
<jrwren> oh definitely prefer full linux.
<Zimdale> I too like to drink wine
<Zimdale> oh
<Zimdale> you meant the windows thing...
<Zimdale> I'll see myself out
<shakes808> Zimdale: :) Got a case being delivered next week :)  Michigan By The Bottle :) Check it out if you haven't :)  They have only MI wines :)
<Zimdale> michigan wine deliveries are a pain in the ass :(
<Zimdale> I can't wait until they fix that up, we will hopefully get into wine trading at work and life will be amazing!
<rick_h> I've given up on michigan wine.
<shakes808> this is a brick and mortar that you have to go pick it up from them :)
<Zimdale> oh
<shakes808> :)  They get wines from michigan and sell it at their place.
<Zimdale> We found a place near where we live that has a bottle of 1977 port
<Zimdale> I really want it but I don't want to spend the monies :(
<shakes808> they don't really sell glasses of wines, but flights.  they are a tasting room
<Zimdale> It's beautiful
<shakes808> mmmm a good port :) haven't had one in  a long time
<shakes808> http://www.michiganbythebottle.com/
<Zimdale> There's a place in royal oak that makes a pretty good port for just like candy
<Zimdale> a lot of nice chocolate ports
<brousch__> rick_h: Have you visited the SE MI wineries? Tabor Hill, St. Julian?
<Zimdale> St. Julian is one of the few that have catawba wine :)
<brousch__> Sorry, SW MI
<rick_h> brousch__: no, more north ones and been to a couple of "michigan wine" events that have wineries from around MI bring their stuff in for tasting
<brousch__> You really should spend a weekend there.
<brousch__> St. Joseph
<cmaloney> I think I have found my calling:
<cmaloney> Backpacking as a service
<cmaloney> so you get someone to don a backpack for you and trudge across Europe
<cmaloney> and you can live through their experiences through blog posts and photos
<cmaloney> so you'll never have to leave the comfort of your home
<cmaloney> THink that is good for 10 mil in VC funding?
<cmaloney> It's like Uber for the disconnected class
<_stink_> got a good name?
<_stink_> that might be all that matters
<cmaloney> BkPkr
<cmaloney> Or, we could capitalize on people sitting on their butts while backpacking
<cmaloney> and call it ButtPckr
<cmaloney> Haven't sorted that out yet
<_stink_> i like the direction thougjh
<widox> lol
<widox> I think you might get the wrong attention with ButtPckr
<shakes808> ... For some reason I think that you will have a lot of IP addresses from San Fran and Ferndale with that last one ... haha
<cmaloney> Dear VC Angels: Send me your money
<brousch__> Isn't Google already doing that?
<brousch__> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/06/if-worthy-google-will-lend-you-its-42lb-15-camera-backpack-for-an-adventure/
<cmaloney> Anyone want to be a Delphi developer? Got a lead on a position that's underpaying in Ann Arbor
<cmaloney> "You will assist the team in modernizing a large mission-critical application that is used by companies around the world to ensure the stability of electrical grids."
<cmaloney> Excellent programming skills in an object oriented language such as C++ or Delphi
<cmaloney> If you do not already know Delphi, your willingness to learn Delphi is a requirement
<cmaloney> Actually, I misread. They're not too bad for a Delphi developer
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-12
<cmaloney> morning
<hpucks> cmaloney: I'm not interested in being a dev, but I'm curious what company?  We just went through a extensive selection process of EMS vendors.
<cmaloney> Sadly they didn't say which company
<cmaloney> Was through a contracting firm, and naturally you get to find that out later
<cmaloney> http://www.stoutsystems.com/position/2395/
<cmaloney> Everything I'm seeing points to that position on Stout Systems, so I'd need to do some more digging
<hpucks> Interesting.  I want to say GE has an office out that way too, but I could be wrong.
<cmaloney> It's possible
<cmaloney> Though whomever it is appears to use Stout for most of their positions
<cmaloney> and Google likely thinks I'm interested in a career move to Delphi
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney>  How's the day so far?
<rick_h> coffee collected and it's friday so looking up
 * rick_h hugs his chemex 
<rick_h> tonight is michael's violin recital so now I need to debate if I bring a tripod and record it or not
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> rick_h: i would bring it just in case.
<rick_h> shakes808: heh yea just emailed the instructor to get an official word on it
<jrwren> I'd welcome a career move to delphi, its a very interesting language, but I feel that is a dead end.
<Zimdale> Specialize in Delphi, Coldfusion and Progress
<_stink_> Zimdale++
<jrwren> progress bought telerik a while back.
<shakes808> does anyone want a slot machine?  Looks similar to this: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR07PM09hRvnixD8ciu1f3q47-E2UgV8rP_iCenjmOvbjRUmzATYQ
<shakes808> my neighbor is looking to sell it
<cmaloney> shakes808: nice, but sadly not in the markrt for one
<shakes808> Anyone want a 20 something foot camping trailer? It would have the option to come with a camp site membership
<shakes808> i think the camp grounds are Outdoor Adventures or something.  And that membership can be used throughout the USA
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-13
<cmaloney> jrwren: Apparently your page is suspended
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-07
<greg-g> for rick_h_ https://social.coop/@Greg/99984320982207210
<rick_h_> greg-g: niiice! We'll have to talk shop sometime.
<rick_h_> jrwren: what csa do you use?
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning snap-l
 * rick_h_ tried to tab complete cmaloney lol
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> one sec
<cmaloney> Not sure why that happened
<rick_h_> it's just funny how my brain did the transition like that
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren_> rick_h_: Tantre Farms
<rick_h_> jrwren_: cool, had a reminder to look into CSA's for this year and crazy trying to sort through the info out there
<jrwren_> rick_h_: yup, and its probably too late to sign up. Most typically take enrollment in the fall so they can plan for hte next year, but maybe you'll find one iwth openings.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: oh interesting. Most seem to start up in june/july so figured I'd be good
<rick_h_> good to set expectations
<jrwren_> rick_h_: easiest way is probably to visit your local farmers market, talk to every local farm, see which ones do CSA and pick one to try.
<jrwren_> Ours starts in a couple of weeks, but I guess that is almost June. time is flying!
<rick_h_> jrwren_: yea, saw one that delivered to Clarkston farmer's market and seemed a good option
<rick_h_> Except we stopped going because we tend to be camping during the weekend
<greg-g> if we move from norcal, not having year-round CSAs is going to be weird/hard
<greg-g> rick_h_: right now the current plan of action is a 3/4 ton truck, a light weight pop-up truck camper and a 25ish foot trailer. That way the camper is my office while I work fulltime and we travel.
<rick_h_> greg-g: oh, going fulltiming?
<rick_h_> greg-g: how long you looking to go?
<greg-g> for at least a few months yeah
<greg-g> summer/fall thing
<rick_h_> you looking to stay on grid or off grid? (e.g. BLM and such?)
<greg-g> mostly boondock or state/national parks.
<greg-g> (boondock/blm/whatever)
<rick_h_> the big thing in that situation is dealing with water/power and smaller trailers having smaller tanks for that stuff as well as if you put solar on something it's not in the other thing
<jrwren> do they even have internet there?
<greg-g> jrwren: I'll have my mifi, so I'm bound to locations with verizon, basically
<rick_h_> sometimes, but you have to research ahead on what campgrounds will get cell vs don't
<rick_h_> there's lots of fulltime sites that'll help narrow down stuff like that with real world experiences vs a coverage map
<rick_h_> and honestly, if you're going boondocking you have to be willing to find a good spot and might have to try a few places first, even go into town for stuff when needed.
<greg-g> I have a co-worker who is fulltime fulltime (her, her partner, and their 10ish year old kid) who basically only do BLM down in the south west. I'm sure I'll be talking to her more for her tips :)
<rick_h_> nice
<greg-g> rick_h_: and yeah, I'm in the Fulltime Families fb group right now, asking questions :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: the other thing is most full timers I track/follow tend to do either van or truck with cap on it so there's a spot for bulk items and such
<rick_h_> greg-g: with the truck camper I'd be nervous about that lack of space
<rick_h_> outside toys, boxes for tools, extra water jugs, etc
<greg-g> yeah, the camper will mostly be my office and basic storage. I actually found one on craigslist without a kitchen/bath that I might get to reduce weight even more and open up storage weight/space
<rick_h_> ah, true. I guess if you don't need the subsystems on it you can clear out a lot of space
<greg-g> indeed
<rick_h_> greg-g: very cool, I'm really excited for you. It's on my wishlist so much
<greg-g> space and weight most importantly :)
<greg-g> hence the spreadsheet, doing all the math to see what is within limits :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: if there's anything I can offer or just want to chat happy to talk shop :) and hear how it goes for you so I can learn for 'one day' :P
<greg-g> definitely :)
<greg-g> I'm expecting it to be hectic the next few weeks and then we'll get on the road (say, early June) so I might have time then :P
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> gotta pack up most of the house into the garage and sublet and all that
<rick_h_> Yea, the folks at "keep your daydream" did a spreadsheet for folks to help with those calcs as they got a new truck/trailer combo and were surprised by how it worked out
<cmaloney> Do you have buy-in from everyone? (ROan in particular?)
<cmaloney> rowan, rather
<greg-g> cmaloney: yeah, he's excited :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: biggest thing is just get out there. You'll make it work and be surprised at how much you learn.
<cmaloney> Cool deal
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I gotta keep telling myself that part. I'm an over planner/find the faults by nature person :)
<rick_h_> there's a few YT'ers I follow just because it's nice to be reminded that folks can do it with so little
<greg-g> cmaloney: but, we learned from our mistake of traveling around Oregon in a minivan for 10 days: Rowan needs stability, so we are going to do 10 day minimums when staying places, instead of the 1 to 2 days we did in Oregon.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, exactly. Everyone eventually learns to travel slower and you'll lose a lot of stress
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> greg-g: it's a lot of work to plan the spots, and you end up putting together a giant itinerary that's impossible to keep without killing yourself.
<jrwren> better to go with the flow.
<cmaloney> greg-g: Ah, cool. I'm glad he has some of that endurance
<greg-g> yeah, that part we're not looking forward to
<rick_h_> yea, and leave room to find things you didn't know were there once you get there
<cmaloney> I would get antsy for home later on. :)
<cmaloney> bbiab
<jrwren> I get anstsy for home after 4 days :)
<rick_h_> weather, special events, etc
<greg-g> jrwren: sadly all the good campgrounds (by whatever metric) are usually booked months in advance for the summer :/ So we'll be focusing on boondocking and various communities (the reason we're traveling, to visit places we might want to move)
<rick_h_> hah, that's why you take your home with you :P
<jrwren> greg-g: I didn't mean that flow.
<greg-g> not the hippy "it'll work out if we don't plan" one? :)
<jrwren> in fact, I hate the flow of the masses. That is something else.
<rick_h_> yea, the lack of real BLM and such out here is a bummer
<rick_h_> though I have my eye on a couple of places that have no hookups and might be a similar experience sometime
<jrwren> greg-g: yes, THAT is the go with the flow I am talkinga bout. the hippy one.
<jrwren> What I really meant is to think of it like waging war. You dont plan every detail, you have an overall objective and strategy to meet that objective but you don't tie yourself to tactics to meet them. You use whatever tactic is appropriate given the current conditions surrounding you.
<jrwren> Its most fun if you are well trained in a variety of tactics ;)
<greg-g> generally good planning advice :)
<brousch> What is BLM?
<rick_h_> bureau of land management
<jrwren> out west there is just land!
<rick_h_> basically government land you can live on for 14 days at a time and is very remote
<jrwren> its so cool! I wish we had that around here.
<rick_h_> yea, it's perfect "I hate people" land
<brousch> That is kind of cool
<brousch> I have a friend with a wife and 3 kids who have lived out of their RV for a couple years. They usually go to mexico to keep it cheap
<Scary_Guy> 14 days?
<rick_h_> Scary_Guy: after 14 days you have to move spots
<Scary_Guy> that sounds annoying as hell
<rick_h_> well it's to prevent folks setting up camp and living there for months
<rick_h_> or with stuff that's not able to move out
<Scary_Guy> if it's remote enough though how will they find out?
<jrwren> they wont
<Scary_Guy> probably have some satellites now or something though
<rick_h_> well places have rangers/etc
<Scary_Guy> but like super remote I meant, and it's a lot of land to cover
<rick_h_> I mean you have to be able to get your truck/trailer or RV or whatever down there. It's rare folks are really going out there
<Scary_Guy> or just live in a cave
<jrwren> if you are backpack camping, I don't think they care.
<rick_h_> no, that's different
<Scary_Guy> no I'm saying make a dugout like they do in Australia
<rick_h_> this is more areas that you can pull vehicles into and setup camp for the 14 days
<Scary_Guy> oh okay
<greg-g> the 14 days doesn't really start until someone sees you :P
<Scary_Guy> :)
<greg-g> from what I've heard (coworker who's full time) the thing that makes them move more often than not is some other person/group showing up close by. So they pack up and go somewhere else without anyone :)
<Scary_Guy> I mean there are homeless people in major cities and no one even knows they're there.  Saw one guy living under a board in a hole and he had electricity, a fridge, a TV.  actually looked kind of nice
<jrwren> lol. that sounds like a home.
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BYoPUOXhVA yeah other than it's literally a hole in the ground
<Scary_Guy> hope it don't flood
<Scary_Guy> The dugouts in 'Straya are actually super nice too.  Miners live underground because the surface gets super hot and there are millions of flies
<Scary_Guy> for high end living I REALLY like this apartment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB2-2j9e4co
<Scary_Guy> Also me and my friend Matt should be making MUG tomorrow
<jrwren> Hong Kong is amazing
<Scary_Guy> Kowloon was amazing, Hong Kong is okay I guess
<jrwren> its just so huge.
<jrwren> bigger than any city i've ever been in.
<Scary_Guy> nice, yeah I suppose it would be cooler if i actually went to visit it
<jrwren> ok, maybe not. I didn't realize London is more populous.
<Scary_Guy> brb
 * rick_h_ goes to get the boy from school
<greg-g> looking at craigslist more closely I'm realizing how much of a deal I got on my '83 20ft motorhome from my old neighbor as he was moving out ($2500). It'd go for closer to $6k now
<jrwren> i love a small one like that.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-08
<waldo323> good morning
<rick_h_> no, it's definitely not good
<jrwren> why not?
<waldo323> oi :-\ then i hope it improves
<cmaloney> rick_h_: What happened?
<rick_h_> sorry, internet issues
<rick_h_> got hung up on first tech person
<rick_h_> told that "everything is fine" from the second person and when I explain that my cameras show that at 12:57am internet went out and that everything works internally but as soon as a hardwired device attempts to ping a static IP through the gateway it fails...
<rick_h_> so now waiting on "Tier 2" support to call me wheeee
<rick_h_> business class service at its best
<cmaloney> Oh that's nice of them
<rick_h_> yea, I mean I had to do "put yourself in my shoes. So you say everything is fine I'm explaining how it's not. If we hang up, who am I supposed to call next?"
<cmaloney> Help me do your job for you because frankly you're not doing a good job of it. ;)
<cmaloney> Yeah, diagnosing internet issues isn't fun
<rick_h_> oh look, and now it's magically back without me turning any knobs
<cmaloney> especially when they require sending someone out. They really don't like to do that
<rick_h_> almost as if something was wrong upstream...
<cmaloney> quelle surprise
<cmaloney> Did someone @ comcastcares
<cmaloney> or is it xfinitysaysgofuckyourself?
<cmaloney> I can't keep up
<rick_h_> comcast business
<rick_h_> so I get to keep using the C-word for now
<cmaloney> w00t
<rick_h_> lol and everything starts coming through from reminders/etc
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> So the Comcast side is the side that doesn't try to upsell you 10 different cable bundles every time you call them?
<cmaloney> "My internet is busted" "We're here to help you, sire; now, would you like HBO with that?"
<cmaloney> sire
<cmaloney> Apparently that's the medieval support person
<waldo323> because the support is from the dark ages
<cmaloney> Wouldnt' surprise me if COmcast / Xfinity built a time machine so they could use peasants from the middle ages for call center support
<cmaloney> "Now, when you say 'computer' what device are you speaking of, good sir"
<cmaloney> "Be glad it's a mouse and not a rat; you'll catch the plague from those buggers"
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa_hiLXLbTc
<rick_h_> so taking bets on if comcast tier 2 actually calls to verify that things are ok or not
<rick_h_> or if they just see the traffic graph spike up and run off and go "welp my work here is done"
<cmaloney> They're waiting to see if the magic beans they sprinked on the router took hold
<cmaloney> then you'll get the "yup, seems to be working"
<rick_h_> heh, got the call from tier 2 person
<jrwren> did they explain anything?
<rick_h_> guess they did maint on a major box that services the area last night and they forgot to configure something that enables all static ip customers
<rick_h_> so thousands of business customers in the area knocked out
<jrwren> damn!!!!
<jrwren> osunds like business class is second class.
<rick_h_> the crazy part is how tier 1 said nothing was wrong in the area
<rick_h_> but it sure seems that should come up that hey "every business customer in this area's called to report issues"
<jrwren> yup, terrible system
<rick_h_> anyway, I'll stop my bitching now
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> So, telling a recruiter that you feel left behind in the commercial side of computing: good move or great move? :)
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Is the recruiter working for you, or for a company?
<brousch> I have recruiters I would feel comfortable telling that, and they would work with me to get the needed skills
<cmaloney> For a company ultimately
<cmaloney> not sure how it is on the west side but most of the recruiters I've experienced here couldn't be bothered to help out
<brousch> I have cultivated relationships with a couple of them outside of work
<cmaloney> You usually get about one or two months of a recruiter's attention before they move on to other prospects
<brousch> handcrafted artisinal recruiters
<cmaloney> and unless you make it through a company's hiring process and land a job they don't kindle that relationship
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> and once you leave a job my experience is there are few recruiters that will continue the relationship
<cmaloney> there are some that did
<cmaloney> but I've lost touch with them
<cmaloney> unlike a realtor that we ran into a long time ago that still calls me
<cmaloney> (this might also be because i rarely give out my phone number)
<rick_h_> so over/under of new chat systems at google i/o this year is set at 2
<greg-g> le sigh
<greg-g> we already had a "make a google chat bot for Wikimedia's Phabricator" task. I ain't going to do it. Been burned too many times already.
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah ouch
<cmaloney> I'm sure they'll converge them together in some fashion
<cmaloney> But yeah, anyone who thought Allo was going to do anything wasn't paying attention
<cmaloney> Hangouts going to Enterprise only is a real pisser though
<cmaloney> or Enterprise Focused
<cmaloney> since that's essentially all of my chat online
<rick_h_> well that's going to meet
<rick_h_> thuogh I wish work work turn it on and migrate it on that account
<cmaloney> Duo is just silly since it's for phones only
<greg-g> I think our org won't enable google meet until we have to
 * rick_h_ still uses hangouts in inbox so he can text his wife from the computer 
<cmaloney> but then again, anyone complaining about no desktop support for chat is yelling at the kids to get off their lawn
<rick_h_> greg-g: so far my testing shows it's doing better than hangouts
<greg-g> cool
<rick_h_> greg-g: I've set it up on my personal domain and been doing some testing on there. The biggest :( is that the quality slider is gone and you have to go into settings to flip down quality for low bandwidth connections
<rick_h_> cmaloney: or just sits behind a computer by day heh
 * cmaloney is just going to use Jitsi and Mastodon DMs
<cmaloney> screw y'all, I'm going to talk to myself
<cmaloney> What will likely happen is folks will move completely to Discord
<cmaloney> and then we'll get to see how awful they are when they have more power over users.
 * cmaloney is wondering when he started channeling John C Dvorak levels of curmudgeon
<greg-g> rick_h_: oh that sucks, I use that all the time on slow connections.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, same here
<greg-g> and only imagine I'll be doing it more once our travels start :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: but overall video/audio quality is better so far
<greg-g> cool
<cmaloney> The sad thing is I'm starting to think that OwnCloud et al folks are getting it right for the wrong reasons
<greg-g> cmaloney: I still haven't tried discord...
<cmaloney> it's not the privacy concerns, it's the deprecation concerns
<cmaloney> greg-g: Honestly it's my least favorite of all of them
<greg-g> cmaloney: for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCb-WcxO5SU&t=51s
<cmaloney> it's like IRC / Slack but with less utility and more ways to put garbage in the timeline
<greg-g> oh goody
<cmaloney> greg-g: Hah
<waldo323> one that got me a job offer I didn't accept contacted me today to checkin
<waldo323> one = a recruiter    in response to earlier comments
<waldo323> does slack have audio/video?
<jrwren> yes
<Scary_Guy> cmaloney, that video reminds me of Heron's "steam ball"
<Scary_Guy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile
<Scary_Guy> Looks like I'm skipping tonight.  Matt bailed to work on other things and I have some stuff to do here anyway.  You kids have fun
<cmaloney> bummer
<cmaloney> We should be streaming it tonight if you want to play along at home
<Scary_Guy> you usually stream it anyway, but yeah I'll try to remember to tune in, if not I'll catch the canned stream later
<cmaloney> np
<waldo323> we should even have a working mic :)
<cmaloney> ideally
<waldo323> I'm headed out hope to see everyone (that can make it) at mug
<cmaloney> Getting wrapped up as well
<Scary_Guy> I'm kind of surprised the venue doesn't have one you can check out
<jrwren> all hail Cosmic Cuttlefish
<cmaloney> woo woo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-09
<rick_h_> wheeeee, making a mess of the neighborhood road https://youtu.be/XqmnybUWH3A
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Getting new sidewalk?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, driveway and such
<rick_h_> getting it a bit wider and fixing the old stuff
<rick_h_> https://youtu.be/x9c53YajxEU is more fun with the machines pulling stuff
<cmaloney> Wow. that's awesome
<rick_h_> I keep looking at them tear things up, very distracting
<jrwren> how old is that existing concrete?
<rick_h_> jrwren: a little over 30 years assuming it's original
<rick_h_> house was built mid-80s
<jrwren> wow! yeah, that looks great for that age.
<jrwren> you replacing it all?
<rick_h_> yea, making it 4ft wider to make more room for wife to get the van into the garage around the RV
<rick_h_> so that started it, and decided if we're going to do it once...just do it well
<jrwren> yup its time.
<greg-g> oh, that's satisfying, when they get that second slab all in one piece, but you ended too soon before they drop it in the dump!
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'll have to go back and make a highlight reel tonight
<greg-g> +1 :)
<cmaloney> ASMR for greg-g: concrete slabs.
<rick_h_> greg-g: this is a bit cool https://youtu.be/2IuuqHrShBk
<rick_h_> timelapse the whole thing
<greg-g> rick_h_: niice
<greg-g> today they pour?
<rick_h_> greg-g: tomorrow
<rick_h_> greg-g: they're working on the wooden framing and such atm
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h_> so I think that'll end today once they're setup to just come out, pour, and let it solidfy enough to cut expansion joints
<rick_h_> but I didn't get an agenda from them heh
<greg-g> "hi, I'm going to project manage your work" :)
<rick_h_> "does this lane properly reflect your active backlog of tasks for this iteration?"
<greg-g> fuck yeah
<rick_h_> "well given that and your current velocity it does not appear you can accomplish this during this iteration. Let's work with product to identify the must have vs nicer to have work"
 * rick_h_ knows how to get greg-g worked up lol
<Scary_Guy> afternoon
<greg-g> rick_h_: <3
<jrwren> rick_h_: its stuck in review.
<jrwren> ;)
<jrwren> concrete review.
<rick_h_> jrwren: hah
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Naturally w're supposed to get rain tonight
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-10
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I think I got bitten by the Mycroft bug
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: isn't that the AI thing that's open source?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> It's based on a RPi and the Mark 1 model even has GPIO pins on the back
<cmaloney> and it looks like there is an Arduino handling controls / display
<rick_h_> cool
<cmaloney> There's a Mark II that's on Indiegogo now
<cmaloney> and it's all in Python. :)
<rick_h_> seems inside your realm of fun toy stuff
<rick_h_> ooh, even better
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> What I'm wondering is if I could incorporate it with Heyu and do some janky home automation with X10
<jrwren> we must destroy x10. we must destroy all internet ads.
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's what adblock and privacy bager do for me. ;)
<cmaloney> Sitting at the vW dealership checking on more power lock foo
<dzho> cmaloney: d'oh
<dzho> as in, the door locks are acting up?
<cmaloney> As in they used some weedly motors for the door locks and they go south
<dzho> :(
<dzho> so, seeing that Winterkorn was indicted by the Germans gives me some small hope I might one day allow myself to like VW again.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I am having a great day
<cmaloney> 1) They think it's the door latch, so they want $400 to fix it
<cmaloney> aparently though it's such a common problem that they don't stock the part
<cmaloney> 2) They managed to scratch / dent the driver's side door in the process
<cmaloney> to the point where the primer is showing
<rick_h_> oops, so they're going to get you a new door?
<rick_h_> great day!
<cmaloney> We'll see
<cmaloney> they're checking footage to see what happened
<cmaloney> Pretty sure it was whatever car wash they ran it through
<cmaloney> since it looks like it was scrapd / bent
<cmaloney> scraped
<cmaloney> likely when I told them to get stuffed on fixing it right now
<cmaloney> again, because apparently i get to pay to fix a common problem for a door latch
<cmaloney> What's even better is apparently this is a new system that nobody is trained on for the cameras
<rick_h_> it's like a backup system
<rick_h_> "we have one, no idea how it works"
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, they're getting trained on the 16th
<greg-g> cmaloney: why do they need the video footage? to try to prove it wasn't them it was you?
<cmaloney> Naturally
<cmaloney> it's not to see what happened, it's to see if I'm an asshole
<cmaloney> but it's not something that I would have done, or if it was it's something that I would have noticed
<greg-g> that's a great way to do customer service
<cmaloney> Oh they're just knocking it out of the park today
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Pretty sure the parts department is where they stock snacks
<cmaloney> and little else
<cmaloney> This is also the same dealership where my keybod fell apart and they couldn't replace it
<cmaloney> keyfob
<cmaloney> and the service person was trying to jam in a paperclip
<cmaloney> (which wouldn't have worked)
<cmaloney> we managed to find a second-hand keyfob and replace the guts
<cmaloney> since the only part we needed was the swing arm
<cmaloney> Now I know why VW folks are so prevalent online: they have to be because the dealerships don't have long-term support
<cmaloney> The analogy of VW and Apple is closer than I realized
<rick_h_> woo! cement time
<rick_h_> think they'll let me drive the cement truck?
<rick_h_> oh crap, it's driving into the mud. I thought for sure it'd just pour using a long trough
<cmaloney> Yeah, not so much
<rick_h_> I wonder how long this needs to cure...I might not be bringing the camper home on sunday I guess. Didn't think about that
<cmaloney> Cement? I think this weekend would be a bust
<rick_h_> The First 14 Days are Crucial â The first 14 days of your new driveway is the most critical period, when the driveway is most vulnerable. Do not drive on your new driveway for 3-5 days. Wait up to 14 days before parking on your new driveway. And when you do, only park on it during the cool part of the day.
<rick_h_> ugh, that's...going to be not fun
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> and I'm pretty sure they're thinking traditional vehicles on the driveway
<cmaloney> camper is likely right out for at least a week
<rick_h_> yea...and the HD truck
<rick_h_> so looks like maybe in a week she can pull into the garage to charge it
<rick_h_> and in 2 weeks the truck and trailer can park on it
<rick_h_> which means I'm going to have to buy more days at the campground...
<cmaloney> That sounds positively awful
<cmaloney> I'm sure you're just beside yourself
<cmaloney>  /sarcasm
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> well I am a little bit. I'm very uncomforable with the camper sitting at the campground without us
<rick_h_> the last couple of days have provided some anxiety
<cmaloney> Oh, that is a different issue
<rick_h_> I'm going out there tonight to check on it
<rick_h_> and I'm heading out of town next thurs
<rick_h_> so yea...this is putting a damper on my day
<rick_h_> though it should have been obvious
<greg-g> rick_h_: oohhh, I thought you were taking advantage of the time and opportunity to work from the park
<rick_h_> greg-g: not yet, going to head out friday
<rick_h_> greg-g: have to be here at the house to do the driveway work and such. and wife/son have soccer/etc
<rick_h_> so it's kind of a pita do "live" from there during the week
<cmaloney> Ah, that's a pisser
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h_> so it's there to be out of the way, and we'll use it this weekend, but it'll have to be visits for a bit
<greg-g> neighborhood doesn't allow parking it on the street?
<cmaloney> There's little street to park on
<greg-g> huh
<rick_h_> greg-g: oh no I wouldn't want to. Too much traffic and too small
<cmaloney> I think rick_h_ has an even more narrow street than we had over at our old house
<rick_h_> I'm nervous enough about my truck in the street at night
<greg-g> I see, well then, godspeed :)
<rick_h_> yea, maybe have to see if i can talk the wife into crashing at the campground more. It's a 20min drive so not completely crazy
<rick_h_> many many folks commute more
<cmaloney> At our old house if you parked anything wider than a 1970s era compact car on both sides it was like threading a needle
<rick_h_> The thing here is that folks seem to think that it's a race track to enjoy peeling down
<cmaloney> a-yep
<rick_h_> then they come around the corner and go "oh crap...how dare an obstruction get into my lane"
<cmaloney> it has that deceptively fast feel to it
<rick_h_> meh, it's temporary, by next year will have forgotten all about the pain of the install
<cmaloney> That's the hope
<rick_h_> https://youtu.be/wd1BLiCAdgk progress so far
<cmaloney> SO, is two hours waiting for the replay long enough?
<rick_h_> ?
<cmaloney> at the dealership
<cmaloney> sorry, crossed the wires there. :)
<rick_h_> oh lol
<rick_h_> yea, that replay is too long
<Scary_Guy> Every time I hear about Mycroft I keep thinking of http://mycroftproject.com
<Scary_Guy> also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF8NK6eruUs
<cmaloney> eell, apparently they didn't get anyone at corporate who had the password to their video system
<cmaloney> so they will contact me once they have
<cmaloney> underneath this calm exterior is someone who will ensure they do not make rhis misrake again
<cmaloney> that would have been more threatening had the t not been replaced with an r
<greg-g> twice
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Some chucklefuck has been posting some blockchain spam on all of the meetup groups
<cmaloney> naturally you can't turn off the discussion piece of Meetup
<cmaloney> This savant-idiot joins the group and then posts the message
<cmaloney> Adam Zientarski
<rick_h_> That's my pen name
<rick_h_> don't worry, after I'm rich I'll stop
<cmaloney> Well, you're banned from CHC now
<cmaloney> so, good job. ;)
<rick_h_> :P
 * rick_h_ checks list for pen name #2
<cmaloney> Adam Yientarski
<cmaloney> Adam Xientarski
<rick_h_> that sounds good!
 * rick_h_ puts those at the end of the list
<rick_h_> Is it like passwords you have to change? You just change the letter
<rick_h_> Zientarski, Aientarski, Bientarski
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Sadly enough I think that would totally work
<rick_h_> and there goes the cement truck
<rick_h_> pour is done, smooth baby smooth
 * cmaloney drives up to write his name in it
<rick_h_> hah, wife and I were debating that
<cmaloney> Dientarski
<rick_h_> is that Greek?
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> Johnny Gyro
<rick_h_> the tree is dropping little bits into the driveway
<rick_h_> stupid tree
<rick_h_> hold onto your sperm you damn thing
<cmaloney> Trees having a wank on rick_h_'s driveway
<rick_h_> basically, there's no barry white blasting tree!
 * cmaloney chastises self
<brousch> You need to pick those out or it will compromise the final integrity
<greg-g> I... this... ok.
<rick_h_> lol
<Scary_Guy> too bad you can't do a wildcard of *ientarski
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-11
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<widox> morning
<widox> a chilly and dark morning even
<cmaloney> Indeed
<cmaloney> We had to turn the heat back on
<greg-g> Tgif
<cmaloney> and then some
<Scary_Guy> plugged in my space heater.  the cold is annoying but it is a lovely day otherwise
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's gloriously overcast
<rick_h_> Umm....very wet
<rick_h_> Going to be a wet day to fish
<cmaloney> Lovely
<jrwren> you are going anyway? NICE!
<jrwren> I don't have any good outdoor rain gear else I'd still be tempted.
<rick_h_> With the driveway bthe camper is setup at groveland
<rick_h_> So we're hanging out there this weekend
<cmaloney> https://github.com/MycroftAI/contributors/commit/8e7be7ef2f7f26654bce08378f12552d0933157e
<greg-g> nice
<cmaloney> Small change, but apparently they liked it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-12
<waldo323> cool! what was your change?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> that thunder was loud last night
<cmaloney> Yeah it was
<cmaloney> My compuer UPS turned off
<cmaloney> naturally this is the day that JoDee is starting a different school (OCC Southfield)
<cmaloney> yes, on a Saturday
<cmaloney-exile> OK, this UPS is now a liability
<_stink_> hah
<cmaloney-exile> Think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and just get a new one when Microcenter opens
<cmaloney-exile> Dammit, only 30 minutes to go
<cmaloney-exile> And then see how this one can be fixed and if so I'll move it onto the network equipment
<cmaloney-exile> at the very least the cable modem has its own battery
<cmaloney-exile> Might need a new battery, even though it claims it's cool
<cmaloney> Geez, replacement battery for this UPS is ridiculous: https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups/replacement-batteries/?filter_product-models=cp1350pfclcd
<greg-g> lithium?
<greg-g> cmaloney: you... should be able to find a much cheaper option... unless that size is impossible to find other places (by size I mean dimensions).
<greg-g> cmaloney: a 7ah 12v battery shouldn't be 92 dollars
<jrwren> might as well just get a new ups.
 * greg-g is specing out a 'solar generator' right now
<jrwren> its the old printer/ink business model.
<jrwren> greg-g: what makes it a "generator" ?
<greg-g> jrwren: attaching to solar panels
<greg-g> basically, a battery with a lot of good ports (usb, cigarette, inverter) and solar panels
<greg-g> my current amazon list with some redundancy: https://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1XGV50DQI1JGF/ref=cm_wl_huc_title
<greg-g> basically, I'm making a really ugly but way cheaper, version of https://www.rei.com/product/862518/goal-zero-yeti-400-portable-power-generator
<cmaloney> I did get a new UPS
<cmaloney> and Amazon has replacement batteries for $70
<cmaloney> so I might pick one up to revive it for a little while longer
<cmaloney> it's 5 1/2 years old so that's typical for a battery
<cmaloney> but yeah, the battery is half of the cost of a new unit
<jrwren> greg-g: sounds fun!
<jrwren> https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/05/malware-found-in-ubuntu-snap-store.html  i hate snaps.
<jrwren> ruins linux
<cmaloney> snaps are awful
<_stink_> huh i never even heard of them
<cmaloney> _stink_: Give it a bit; you'll hear they're being discontinued
<_stink_> hah, my favorite kind of fad... the one i miss.
<cmaloney> exactly
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-13
<dzho> so ... flatpak?
<jrwren> i'm not sure yet, but I think I'll like flatpak a little better.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-04
<cmaloney> https://app.getpocket.com/read/2971771299
<cmaloney> Tim Bray left Amazon
<cmaloney> https://getpocket.com/library/?pl_i=2971771299 <- Better link
<jrwren> i never heard of him before today, but he is a hero
<greg-g> +1
<jrwren> "Firing whistleblowers isnât just a side-effect of macroeconomic forces, nor is it intrinsic to the function of free markets. Itâs evidence of a vein of toxicity running through the company culture."
<cmaloney> He's big in the Ruby community
<jrwren> https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2020/04/29/Leaving-Amazon
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Bray
<cmaloney> erm, not ruby
<cmaloney> XML and JSON and other web standards
<jrwren> oh, he is retirement age. Here I was expecting some young 20something.
<mrgoodcat> he's only been at amazon for 5 years, and i believe he was actually at aws not amazon proper
<jrwren> he says both of those in his post, yes.
<jrwren> but... what is the difference between AWS and "amazon proper"?
<mrgoodcat> aws is officially a separate business with its own leadership and corporate structure
<mrgoodcat> "amazon proper" is the parent company which is amazon.com
<cmaloney> Does Jeff Bezos get money from AWS?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> its just a business unit.
<jrwren> its l"separate" like instagram or whatsapp are. lol.
<jrwren> or how Alphabet has google and all its other separatre business units.
<jrwren> I don't see why distinction of a business unit is important.
<cmaloney> tax purposes
<cmaloney> That's about it
<jrwren> hrm... I don't think it even counts for tax purposes. AFAIK it isn't structured as a wholy-owned subsidiary. It isn't like Berkshire Hathaways holdings. It is just a business unit, AFAIK.
<mrgoodcat> I think in this case the distinction is, as stated in the article, the average power balance between employee and employer is much different between amazon and aws
<jrwren> yeah.
<gamerchick02> i got my Commodore movie! i ordered The Commodore Story on blu-ray and just got it today!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-05
<cmaloney> nice!
<cmaloney> DOes it have the part where Mehdi Ali fucked up everything?
<cmaloney> and then called himself a CEO genius despite being a complete fuck-up?
<jrwren> https://bill.harding.blog/2019/03/25/linux-touchpad-like-a-macbook-progress-and-a-call-for-help/
<jrwren> anyone have a favorite "run off USB" distro? my wife's laptop's SSD died... its integrated... no great way to replace it.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Other than Ubuntu with scratch space? I haven't tried any lately.
<jrwren> i'll lean that way then.
<jrwren> or... i just had crazy idea of taping a USB to ssd onto the back or bottom and using that.
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> https://jatan.blog/2020/05/02/ubuntu-snap-obsession-has-snapped-me-off-of-it/
<jrwren> another rant
<cmaloney> There's always got to be one shit-storm per release
<cmaloney> Wow, the reddit thread is basically hate for snaps
<cmaloney> I've yet to see any advocacy for snaps from anyone (outside of Canonical folks)
<jrwren> link plz
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/gc7p1t/ubuntu_2004_lts_snap_obsession_has_snapped_me_off/
<jrwren> well, ya know I'm anti snap, but there is a lot of stupid in them reddit comments
<greg-g> This is about right, though: "Haha, the future is downloading straight-up complete VM system images."
<jrwren> 'cept it wasn't at all. not even snaps do that.
<jrwren> in fact, NOT doing that is the whole point of ubuntu-core
<jrwren> i actually like the idea of a standard base core system. so you know which libs you don't have to ship, and you ship everything else that you need.
<jrwren> Works great for mac, win, ios, android. Linux systems would do well to adopt.
<jrwren> that said... i love hyperbole, and I htink that is what it was, so I should STFU.
<jrwren> sorry.
<jrwren> "rue story: I was using kubectl commands over and over to debug an issue (luckily it wasn't a production issue), when suddenly I wasn't a valid user on the cluster anymore. Turns out kubectl was shelling out to the awscli command, which was installed via Snap. Snap had somehow decided to revert to a previous AWS version (from 1.17 to 1.15!) while I was typing a command, so it broke my kubernetes
<jrwren> I like this:
<jrwren> authentication. No cool Snap, I'm never trusting you again."
<greg-g> yeah, I read it as hyperbole ;)
<jrwren> i'm slow
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-06
<jrwren> https://githubsatellite.com
<_stink_> nice, thank you
<jrwren> github discussions... now you don't need a discourse instance... :)
<jrwren> and they have code spaces now... look like VSCode integrated in web window so you can edit and run on their website. it starts a VM for you.
<jrwren> now if you could run it too, like glitch, that would be sweet
<greg-g> free for now (while in beta)
<greg-g> just saw that in my team's channel
<cmaloney> I fear for the personal computer
<jrwren> i don't.
<jrwren> its market share has already been shrinking.
<jrwren> cmaloney: brace yourself before you look at the news.
<greg-g> which news now?!
<greg-g> I can't keep up!
<cmaloney> Yeah, which news?
<cmaloney> Kraftwerk-related?
<cmaloney> I mean, bracing myself is just unnecessary at this point
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> Yes, Kraftwerk-related.
<dzho> > github discussions... now you don't need a discourse instance... :)
<dzho> you mean, the satellite page?
<jrwren> huh?
<jrwren> https://github.com/features/codespaces
<jrwren> errr, crap, no not that...
<jrwren> https://github.blog/2020-05-06-new-from-satellite-2020-github-codespaces-github-discussions-securing-code-in-private-repositories-and-more/#discussions
 * cmaloney claps
<cmaloney> https://www.meetup.com/Ann-Arbor-Coffee-House-Coders/events/270281946/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-07
<greg-g> oh god: https://blog.zoom.us/wordpress/2020/05/07/zoom-acquires-keybase-and-announces-goal-of-developing-the-most-broadly-used-enterprise-end-to-end-encryption-offering/
<jrwren> right?!?
<jrwren> I am disappoint
<jrwren> but I never really bought into keybase.
<jrwren> Still, it was an interesting project.
<greg-g> yeah, I have an account and such, I was even contacted by someone through it to share a password (legitimate). But that's the extent of my use really
<cmaloney> I never quite understood Keybase
<cmaloney> but it feels like two places that don't quite understand encryption handling encryption
<greg-g> I think if you bought into it, it made sense: private communications, sharing of secrets/files, private git repo. Great for teams (the person who shared a password with me uses it on their dev team)
<cmaloney> Yeah, but it felt like you REALLY had to buy into their ecosystem
<greg-g> yeah, this is totally a "we fucked up on encryption, either intentionally or unintentially, so let's buy someone to make it look like we'll get better at it"
<cmaloney> and Zoom doesn't seem like a good fit
<jrwren> oh i think the coders creating the solutions at keybase knew whatt they were doing.
<jrwren> it is just their goal of making PGP easy just isn't that interesting or useful.
<jrwren> i never installed their app. I'd always copy and paste the GPG commands ;)
<cmaloney> Is it GPG on the back-end?
<jrwren> yes.
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<jrwren> it is just a nice API and app on top of GPG
<cmaloney> So it's not quite as Dunning Keyserver as I thought it was
<jrwren> lol... kruger keyserver
<cmaloney> my favorite derrogative term for Bitcoin is Dunning Kreugerands
<cmaloney> dunning krugerrands  if I knew how to spell
<cmaloney> Got that from here: https://www.jwz.org/blog/2017/11/today-in-dunning-krugerrand-news/
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> i don't really get it.
<jrwren> why wouldn't you just say Dunning Kruger?
<cmaloney> Krugerrands are gold
<cmaloney> Gold Coins from South Africa
<jrwren> oh, that is why I don't understand. makes more sense now.
<cmaloney> The Krugerrand was introduced in 1967 as a vehicle for private ownership of gold. It was minted in a copper-gold alloy more durable than pure gold. Economic sanctions against South Africa for its policy of apartheid made the Krugerrand an illegal import in many Western countries during the 1970s and 1980s.
<cmaloney> If only there were a source for knowledge. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krugerrand
<cmaloney> Apparently they're worth more than I thought. Google claims the asking price is around $1,700
<greg-g> TIL
<cmaloney> Same
<cmaloney> https://nitter.net/LibyanCossack/status/1258423114997915658#m
<greg-g> oh, nitter is just a proxy for twitter?
<greg-g> fancy-proxy, I guess
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> just found a USB with 16.04 on it... ancient in linux years ;)
<jrwren> whoa... the 16.04 boots and sees the wifi chip and drivers andwork and network works, but popos 20.04 boots and does not. Linux going backwards :(
<cmaloney> fun fun
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-10
<Scary_Guy> Is there a terminal ding like program?  I had this idea that it should ding after five minutes every two minutes if there is no output.  Like if it's stuck on a prompt (completed a job) or at a selection screen (preventing a job from progressing.) This is mostly for install and setup things (apt/pip/etc...)
