#ubuntu-artwork 2005-11-08
<derek[] > hi
<AndyFitz> ogra,  is brisgeek.com/fonts/ubuntu-title.otf    updated in the  ubuntu-title package ?   the TTF version is old and incorrect 
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-11-09
<ogra> AndyFitz, not yet,i'll care for it after the conference (next week)
<AndyFitz> thats all good  thank you :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-11-11
<klepas> Hey there :)
<klepas> good night guys :o)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-11-12
<derek[] > Hallo
<AndyFitz> g'day derek[]   I got your icq message.  sorry mate I'm at work right now.
<AndyFitz> talk to you later mate. ciao
<derek> oh my goodness
<derek> this server refreshes late
<derek> wonder why derek[]  hasn't timed out yet
<derek[] > err
<derek[] > sorry, didn't see this tab already connected
<derek[] > Hi
<derek[] > Any German here plz/
<derek[] > ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-11-06
<justintime32> does anyone know what license the included desktop backgrounds are released under?
<Bartisimo> hello
<Bartisimo> What do I do when I have already registered with Launchpad?
<Bartisimo> hello
<Bartisimo> bye
<frandavid100> hi people
<frandavid100> just seen the new app icons on hbons' blog, I love them!
<lapo> hi
<frandavid100> hiya!
<coz_> hello all
<coz_> bersace, welcome guy
<bersace> coz_: hi
<coz_> bersace, hello how are you today
<bersace> back from pilgrimage
<coz_> bersace, pilgrimage?
<bersace> to Ars
<coz_> bersace, sorry guy, I am real bad with lettered names
<coz_> what is that?
<andreasn> Pilgrimate, the demo party?
<bersace> i took my feet and walk about 20km from a town to another
<bersace> this another town is Ars
<coz_> bersace, oh well nice
<bersace> the town where holy Jean-Marie Vianney lived
<andreasn> oh, ok. Sorry :)
<coz_> bersace, nice!
<bersace> exauhsting, but very nice :D
<bersace> we meet an old guys
<bersace> he passed 5 years in ashram (tibetan monastery)
<bersace> where a became a huge disciple of transcendental meditation
<bersace> (a kind of budism)
<bersace> then he went back to France because he find that this "religion" was wrong
<bersace> (the purpose of budism si to destroy your "I" in order to go back to nirvana)
<bersace> back to france, he discovered he add power
<bersace> s
<bersace> that came from the "meditation"
<bersace> and in fact, from spirits
<bersace> he solve siknesses and other ill
<bersace> one day, he was at mass
<bersace> and heard that spirits blaspheming the host
<bersace> !
<bersace> finally, he became friar
<bersace> :)
<bersace> that was a quite important testimonial
<bersace> unusual
<bersace> his name is "Joseph Marie Verlinde"
<bersace> i don't find any links in english
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> how made the Human theme redo and undo arrows?
<cbx33> s/how/who
<coz_> afternoon all
<troy_s> greets folks
<cbx33> troy_s, the artwork for Human
<cbx33> who made it
<cbx33> and what are restrictions on using it
<troy_s> i suspect cbx33 that they are all under cc share alike
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> so i can use them
<troy_s> but you might want to ask frank
<troy_s> he could probably provide a more clear response
<cbx33> dholbach just said there is a link to the ubuntu artwork copyrght thingy
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-11-07
<lapo> yo
<klepas> moinmoin lapo
<coz_> wow only 14 people here anything interesting going on
<msikma> slavery.
<coz_> msikma, mm ??
<coz_> art-saging site.. interesting. is this a palce where artwork might be considered for use in upcoming editions of ubuntu?
<coz_> staging
<coz_> who is responsible for maintaing the art-staging site
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-11-08
<Viper550> anyone here?
<Viper550> Hi kwwii
<kwwii> hi Viper550
<kwwii> just read your mail
<Viper550> yep, just finding something to do as we prepare for Feisty to begin
<Viper550> Currently, they are using most of Ubuntu Dapper's artwork, but I'm going to lead them down a new unique path...
<lapo> yo
<Madpilot> hi lapo
* klepas waves
<lapo> yo guys
<coz_> afternoon all
<coz_> can you believe there is another rocky movie coming out?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-11-09
<lapo> hi
<PingunZ> Hi all
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-11-10
<Viper550> troy_s: if you wanna help us, #gnewsense
<lapo> yo
<klepas> moin
<zoetrope666> hi :)
<zoetrope666> i've recently been uploading some images on art.ubuntu.com and wonder if this is OK to do - i've been reading the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved page and it seems like submitted artwork should abide by certain specifications? im just not sure if im supposed to/allowed to post artwork there, or whether its more for pros?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-11-11
<troy_s> msikma how are you my friend?
<troy_s> greets andreasn, effraie, klepas and all...
<effraie> \o/ troy_s
<troy_s> slow in here... i presume we will need to wait and see how soon sabdfl gets the 'anchors' in place.
<BHSPitMonkey> woot
<troy_s> It will be an interesting cycle to say the least.
<andreasn> hey there
<_tcc> http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resources/wicket.Application/imageResource?imageEntryId=2976
<_tcc> Turing.
<_tcc> (lol)
<Viper550> haha...not funny
<_tcc> No, it's funny alright.
<Viper550> no, this is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyWTGNbmb1c
<_tcc> Oh yea...
<_tcc> It wasn't really funny, I just felt like trying out the gimp while going somewhat-warhol on turing.
<Viper550> only left arrows!
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-11-12
<Viper550> hello everyone!
<Viper550> troy_s? you there?
<Viper550> hello? anyone here? ryanakca? klepas? troy_s?
<troy_s> what Viper550 ?
<Viper550> Work on gNewSense has begun in the Ponder phase
<Viper550> We just decided on our GTK theme engine, we will be using Murrine.
<Viper550> oh yeah troy_s: I already begun work on the GTK theme... http://bay01.imagebay.com/full_view.php?view=8803_gnewsense1.png
<ryanakca> hmm?
<Viper550> ryanacka: is the hmm about the rounded buttons?
<ryanakca> I dunno
<ryanakca> You pinged me
<ryanakca> lemme see
<ryanakca> looks good
<ryanakca> that what ubuntu feisty will look like?
* ryanakca can't wait to see what kwwii will cook up for kubuntu...
<ryanakca> well, what it might look like?
<Viper550> ryanacka: this is not Feisty, this is an entirely different distribution, although it is based off Ubuntu though
<ryanakca> ah
<Viper550> if you wanna join us, #gnewsense
<ryanakca> looks good
<ryanakca> kk
<Viper550> Oh yeah, I recall asking the Murrine developer about rounded buttons one day...but now they are finally here!
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> bbl
<Viper550> Here are the ideas we have so dar: http://wiki.gnewsense.org/ArtworkPlan/Ponder
<PingunZ> !seen fschoep
<effraie> \o/ all
<effraie> does we have an idea when goals for feisty artwork will be known ?
<kwwii_> for kubuntu, yes
<kwwii_> anyway...time for sleep
<kwwii_> bbl
<Viper550> I made an installable package for the Gnome 2.16 icons
<effraie> Viper550: where is it?
<Viper550> what? theme or gnome 2.16 icons?
<Viper550> both are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Viper550
<ryanakca> kwwii_:  know what icon set this is? http://www.kde-look.org/content/pre1/45095-1.jpg
<ryanakca> Crystal something?
<kwwii_> ryanakca: looks like crystal, with quite a few diffrent icons
<ryanakca> kwwii_: I found it on kde-look...
<ryanakca> NuovoX by the looks of it :)
<kwwii_> yeah, that is a mix of several sets
<kwwii_> not too big on it myself
<ryanakca> no?
* ryanakca doesn't mind it... so far :)
<ryanakca> It would be better if they merged OS-K and NuovoX together though
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-11-05
<`23meg> hi all
<`23meg> how can I override the icons used in evolution's toolbar?
<andreasn> hey
<andreasn> I'm not sure you can do that in the stable release
<andreasn> montreal have a couple of patches to trunk to make it work though
<`23meg> I remember doing it before; I just replaced some icons somewhere
<andreasn> any particular icon you're thinking about?
<`23meg> the "new", "send/receive" etc. icons in the toolbar
<andreasn> ah, those
<andreasn> hold on
<andreasn> it should be mail-send-receive.png
<andreasn> although, evo might still use a old name for that
<andreasn> if you have icon-naming-utils at hand it will rename it though
<andreasn> let me check what the old name could be
<`23meg> the human theme mostly inherits them from the gnome theme, right?
<andreasn> yes
<andreasn> don't you get the new gnome-icon-theme icon in evo?
<andreasn> hm, there is gnome-stock-mail-new
<andreasn> and mail_new
<`23meg> I think this is it: /usr/share/icons/gnome/22x22/actions/stock_mail-send-receive.png
<andreasn> ah, yeah, that sounds right
<andreasn> it will probably break next evo release though
<andreasn> montreal said his patches didn't get into 2.20, so it's still the old names
<_MMA_> andreasn: Hello sir. How was your flight home? Have you heard from Lessig? (I forgot how to spell his name.)
<andreasn> Lessing?
<andreasn> Lasse you mean?
<_MMA_> Yeah. :)
<_MMA_> I also got to find his email as he said he had a friend that wanted to work on Ubuntu Studio.
<andreasn> lasse@sosialisme.no
<_MMA_> Awesome. Thanx.
<andreasn> but no, I haven't chatted with him since I got home
<darkmatter> mornin' ladies.. err.. "lads" >_>
<_MMA_> andreasn: Did you fly out Saturday in all that rain?
<andreasn> no, I flew out on friday
<_MMA_> Ahh....
<andreasn> quite some turbulece in the air though
<andreasn> was your flight home good?
<_MMA_> Yeah. I flew out Saturday and it was pouring. Take-off was bumpy but after that was fine. :)
<_MMA_> My flight was only 1.5hrs.
<lapo> hi
 * _MMA_ waves.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-11-06
<Burgundavia> anybody around who can talk about art.ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> ?
<troy_s> what about it?
<Burgundavia> will it's scope include such things as posters, banners and other marketing content?
<_MMA_> Burgundavia: In the UDS art talks I was in with kwwii it wasnt mentioned but I dont see why it couldnt
<_MMA_> I heard nothing that would prohibit it.
<Burgundavia> ok, that is good
<Burgundavia> because we need such a place
<Burgundavia> the marketing team, I mean
<Burgundavia> we should talk about how such stuff should be structured
<troy_s> What 'stuff'?
<_MMA_> But I would say that kwwii would be best to talk to. I havnt been able to reach him this evening though. Might be busy.
<Burgundavia> posters and other "non-art" content
<troy_s> What do you mean by 'structured'?
<Burgundavia> well, what high level sections we want
<Burgundavia> how people access the content
<Burgundavia> do we need a redirect from another url directly to the marketing content?
<Madpilot> http://www.ubuntista.com/2007/09/06/ubuntu-logo/
<Madpilot> cool ^^^
<Madpilot> geeky, but no surprise there :)
<troy_s> Madpilot: You been up to anything of late?
<Madpilot> school, mostly
<troy_s> Madpilot: Did you ever see that ubuntu stone -- it was in the gallery somewhere.  Quite beautiful and very very ubuntu.
<Madpilot> troy_s, nope. Link?
<troy_s> Madpilot: How far into school are you now?  You must almost be finished no?
<Madpilot> kind of. Commercial pilot training - passed my big written exam last month, got the flight test on the 22nd of this month
<troy_s> Madpilot: How cool is that.
<troy_s> Madpilot: You studying in Vic?
<Madpilot> expensively cool.
<Madpilot> yes
<troy_s> LOL no kidding
<troy_s> Madpilot: How old are you?
<Madpilot> 29
<troy_s> Madpilot: Wow.  That's cool.  Do you have a gig lined up?
<Madpilot> going to do my Flight Instructor rating in the new year, work at the school I'm currently at
<troy_s> Wow.
<troy_s> I hate searching that gallery on the forums... grr...
<troy_s> It's just a bloody rock, you would think it would be easy to find.
<lassegul> yo
<nothlit> lassegul: hey
<lassegul> nothlit: hey man
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-11-07
<andreasn> kwwii: hey, how are things going?
<lassegul> andreasn: hey, how are things?
<andreasn> pretty good, doing Medsphere stuff as usual
<andreasn> and you?
<lassegul> andreasn: good here as well, had a terrible flight, but im starting to get bakc to european time zones. Medsphere?
<andreasn> http://medsphere.org/
<lassegul> nice.
<kwwii> andreasn: sitting in a meeting atm
<kwwii> going well though
<kwwii> talked to mark last night, we should probably chat later
<andreasn> more meetings eh? :)
<andreasn> sure, I'll be around for two more hours, then I'm off to the choir for a couple of hours
<andreasn> but perhaps sometime after that, in, hm, 7 hours?
 * andreasn want the new world clock pretty soon :)
<kwwii> re
<_MMA_> :P
<kwwii> ?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Im just making faces. :D
<nothlit> _MMA_: that bored huh?
<nothlit> :P
<_MMA_> Kinda. Im sitting around my wifes work waiting for this friggin' IT guy to call so he can clear up all this terminal services crap.
<steph_> hi
 * _MMA_ waves.
 * steph_ waves back
<nothlit> kwwii: status on community package?
<lassegul2> nothlit: from what he told me last week, i guess that he is still waiting for some final replys with high res works
<nothlit> lassegul2: yeah, was wondering if there was anything new
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-11-03
<Picklesworth> So what I have is a project with a lot of SVG images, and I'm just getting around to setting up debian packaging for it but I also want some localization
<Picklesworth> I know it's possible, somehow, to do localization for XML (and thus SVGs) but I have no clue where I'm going without some kind of example :o
<Picklesworth> Anyone here played with such a thing before?
<BHSPitMonkey> ask maybe in #inkscape
<kwwii> if you figure that out, let me know how :p
<BHSPitMonkey> Picklesworth, see, if kwwii doesn't know, it's really not necessary to find out
<kwwii> Picklesworth: if you don't get any good answers let me know...I might be able to ask the right person the right question
<kwwii> but for now, I am going back to bed for an hour or two ;-)
<Picklesworth> kwwii: Thanks for the try :) The usual sources are sparse, regrettably. I'm relying on screenshots (raster graphics) for a lot of this so maybe I'll just maintain an English set of graphics and have the program automatically choose graphics for other locales if they happen to exist. Only problem then is space consumption, but by the time that many people translate it 15 GB install media will be the norm
<Picklesworth_> curse that kernel panic!
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-11-04
<robsta> rsc is not here frequently, is he?
<kwwii> robsta: he is around from time to time, yes...just know that he lives in singapore os is in a totally different time zone
<robsta> kwwii: well, i was just trying to answer a comment of his on dborg's recent blog post
<robsta> anyway
<kwwii> robsta: if I see him I'll mention you asked about him
<robsta> kwwii: thanks, mail should do
<robsta> kwwii: btw, forgot to point out that you can already to themes with the css engine, and they will continue to work, just you need to know the gtk drawing primitives because the sub-widget roles are not implemented yet
<kwwii> robsta: right, trying to avoid all that work :p
<robsta> good plan :)
<thorwil> _MMA_: sebastion is at it again: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions
<Picklesworth> Neaters!
<_MMA_> thorwil: Cool. I'll attend to it when I get home.
 * _MMA_ is at work.
<theterl> hello kenneth... I've returned to test your latest release..
<theterl> it's looking good.
<theterl> I however would not be here if I did not have a problem.
<theterl> I am also annoying people in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-dev, #nvidia, #xorg right now.
<theterl> I have just ONE slight TIDDLYWINK problem atm and I need some rich artistic bastard in here who owns ALL the possible hardware to get up and tell me how to lock my system so 3d full-screen games and programs don't exceed my monitor's refresh rate.
<theterl> you know only too well that I am a troll.
<theterl> *bellows from below the bridge*
<theterl> ERROR ERROR ERROR INPUT SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-11-05
<AnAnt> Hello, can I install a gtk engine in home folder ? ~/.themes/<themename/gtk-2.0/ for example ?
 * DreadKnight @  anyone knows a good pixel font creator* ?
<andreasn> pixel fonts?
<DreadKnight> andreasn: yeah; / bitmap fonts. trying out fontforge atm.
<andreasn> inkscape+fontforge is the way to go
<andreasn> the fontforge ui is horribe in it's places, but it's the best tool out there
<DreadKnight> hmm
<DreadKnight> i'm cool with inkscape.
<thorwil> hi! so Agostino currently leans towards going with 1D. if everyone here has another preference, now would be the time to leave a comment on the blog. http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/11/01/wubi-logo/
<doggymenz> i think ubuntu should ship with Dust and Dust Sand as optional themes...
<doggymenz> those are awesome
 * _MMA_ thinks it should rain puppies and gumdrops.
<melat0nin> hehehe
 * thorwil puts on a helmet
 * melat0nin cranks up the barbecue
<_MMA_> :P
<doggymenz> hahaha
<doggymenz> well, it would be nice imho
<doggymenz> anyone have problems get Dust to work?
<_MMA_> Yes. Rainin' gumdrops would be nice. Though the Slayer fan in me wants to make a "Raining Blood" comment. I guess I just did. ;)
<thorwil> doggymenz: thank you for your opinion. we will place it right next to the other 10000 in that corner over there
 * _MMA_ reminds himself and others to be patient. ;)
<thorwil> Cimi: thanks for the comment :)
<kwwii> I am going to update the community themes package sometime soon
<kwwii> so the newest dust will be in it soon
<kwwii> thorwil: I like 2D best
<kwwii> oh, and http://sinecera.de/rockstar3b.png is the final (I guess) version of the button I showed you last week
<thorwil> kwwii: as do so many. i have to convince ago somehow
<kwwii> ;-)
<thorwil> kwwii: from memory, the only change i noticed is in contrast/tone
<kwwii> thorwil: basically right...I also increased the size of the "can be a"
<thorwil> kwwii: good. who's that YOU going to be?
<thorwil> ah, my window has been put into place: http://wubi-installer.org/
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> thorwil: that pic is for an upcoming page on the wiki, something to do with "hall of fame" or such...not really supposed to talk about it yet
<thorwil> kwwii: oh, interesting. i heard nothing :)
<Picklesworth> Hooray! I've made a nice discovery for scalable screenshot making :)
<Picklesworth> The high contrast theme + Inkscape's Trace Bitmap tool actually comes really close to doing the trick
<thorwil> Picklesworth: and then?
<Picklesworth> Well, + the ten minutes that would otherwise be spent messing with scaling in a way that fits without being blurry
<Picklesworth> painting over the lines with fancy Human-esque gradients
<Picklesworth> then the result looks close enough for some purposes :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-11-06
<thorwil> http://compadre.dk/blog/wp-content/wide-medium.png
<_MMA_> :)
<zniavre> wow
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-11-07
<Picklesworth> So, the other day I was wondering about localizing graphics. If anybody else cares about that topic, I discovered xml2po and then promptly found this nice link! http://andy.brisgeek.com/archives/45
<Picklesworth> For the most part, what the documentation team does for translation is a good reference :)
<Picklesworth> (and well documented, of course!)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-11-08
 * Cimi studying
<zniavre1> hello
<zniavre1> please what is the widget name for volume-applet ? (i would want to change prelight background )
<kwwii> _MMA_: what do you use to make wavs from mp3s?
<thorwil> kwwii: don't know what he uses, but may i suggest: mplayer -ao pcm input.mp3 -ao pcm:file=output.wav?
<kwwii> thorwil: will that get the right bitrate and such?
<thorwil> kwwii: i guess yes. why would it get that wrong? :)
<kwwii> thorwil: well, my mp3s are all 256 not 44
<thorwil> 256 khz??
<kwwii> yepp
<thorwil> kwwii: are you sure you are not mixing up something? like sample rate, bit rate and the very different way mp3 quality is measured?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Can't be right. That's the bitrate.
<_MMA_> Sampleing rate can be 44.1/48kHz.
<kwwii> ahhh, right
 * _MMA_ doesnt know if mp3s can do 96kHz. I think FLAC can.
<thorwil> "the available sampling frequencies are 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz"
 * thorwil -> dinner
 * _MMA_ is testing out his OTA HDTV tuner. Is rather impressed.
<_MMA_> OTA = Over The Air
<kwwii> ok, I just wrote a script to do the transcoding, now to make it burn a cd as well....thanks all
<kwwii> _MMA_: what is that?
<_MMA_> Read again.
<kwwii> ahhh terrestrial, cool
<_MMA_> Yeah. It's alot better than I thought.
<_MMA_> There's a Tarheel football game on in full 1080p and it looks great.
 * kwwii still has an old box tv :-(
<kwwii> thinking about getting a 52" for christmas though...they are much cheaper now
<_MMA_> Yep. I just have a 480i (EDTV) 43" plasma and I love it. I can still run a 1080p signal to it. Only way to tell is put a full 1080p set next to it. Even then, it's not such a big difference to bother me.
<_MMA_> s/480i/480p
<_MMA_> EDTV = Extended Definition TV
 * _MMA_ realizes this really should be in PM.
<kooldude> ive been gone for a while, so can someone give me an update on what we're doing
<kooldude> ive been gone for a while, so can someone give me an update on what we're doing
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-11-09
 * thorwil reads _MMA_s Stepping down from Ubuntu Studio mail
<_MMA_> yep
<thorwil> _MMA_: the CAD job continuous?
<_MMA_> Looks like it will be. I'll be designing on Autodesk's "Inventor".
<thorwil> that's a bit like solidworks, right?
<_MMA_> I'm unsure. I've never used Solidworks.
<thorwil> parametric solid modeling with parts in assemblies, buidling a tree
<_MMA_> Ahh... Then yes.
<thorwil> had a love-hate relationship with that one. so incredibly powerful and clever, but some things that i thought should work didn't and it's a very windowsy application
<_MMA_> Yeah. I'd love it to be a linux app. Some of the Autodesk stuff is. I think its mostly stuff they bought. This company lets me use linux where I can though. ie: I do some things that arent CAD. Like developing a manual. Im doing that all on Ubuntu.
<thorwil> cool
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-11-02
<wers> where can I find the files for the new gdm and splash screen artworks? :)
<Cimi> apt-get source ....
<kwwii> wers: it is all in the human-theme package
<coz_> hey gusy
<coz_> guys
<mac_v> !ping
<ubottu> pong!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-11-03
<Rohirrim> Can anyone submit a wallpaper? I want to contribute.
<thorwil> Rohirrim: well, you can join http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork
<Rohirrim> okay, Thanks.
<thorwil> Rohirrim: for the release that just happened, about 20 wallpapers have been selected from that pool. note that the default wallpaper comes from Canonical. it will very likely be the same process for next release
<Rohirrim> okay.
<thorwil> Rohirrim: also have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Backgrounds
<Rohirrim> Was doing that now.
<thorwil> kwwii: flickr group still has "In our next release, the Karmic Koala (Ubuntu 9.10)" ;)
<mac_v> kwwii: what is the name of the package you'll be adding ? [the one that contains the shortlisted wallpapers?]
<mac_v> those not in the default install*
<mac_v> thorwil: are we going to use the same method[flicker wallpapers] for 10.04 too?
<thorwil> mac_v: i wrote the section about wallpapers on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid and so far no one objected ;)
 * thorwil imagined flickering wallpapers for a moment
<mac_v> ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, need to change that
<kwwii> thorwil: just packaged the extra wallpapers last night ;)
<kwwii> desktop-backgrounds-extra
<kwwii> mac_v: ^
<kwwii> lp:~desktop-backgrounds-extra
<kwwii> need to file a sponsoring bug to get that in universe
<thorwil> bloody %&$&! with karmic's inkscape, prevent-gradient-sharing is always on, ignoring the checkbox
<kwwii> to be honest, karmic is probably one of the worst linux distros I have used in years
<kwwii> it has messed up both of my systems
<zniavre> ho?
<kwwii> do *not* upgrade, it will only break things
<kwwii> and a clean install still has many more X problems than jaunty
<zniavre> i was lucky guy
<kwwii> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
<thorwil> so this issue driving me nuts ia already reported: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/437926
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 437926 in inkscape "Usetting "Prevent sharing of gradient definitions" option does nothing" [Undecided,New]
<mac_v> kwwii: hmm , so lucid is not going to use flickr?
<kwwii> mac_v: ?
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, hopefully it will...I just haven't started it yet
<mac_v> kwwii> thorwil: yeah, need to change that ---> i thought this meant 'no' :)
<kwwii> thorwil: not sure I understand where you see that
<mac_v> kwwii: ah , ok , so what happens to the wallpapers from 9.10? when user upgrades to 10.04?
<mac_v> suggestion move the wallpapers for 10.04 to -> ~desktop-backgrounds-9.10
<thorwil> what?
<thorwil> mac_v: what meant no
<thorwil> kwwii: where do i see what?
<kwwii> thorwil: it seems to work fine here
<kwwii> mac_v: not sure about that yet
<mac_v> thorwil: i thought when kwwii said "kwwii> thorwil: yeah, need to change that" , that it meant the wiki needs to be changed regarding the flikcr
<kwwii> mac_v: I need to update the flickr page to represent the fact that we are working on lucid now
<mac_v> ah  , you meant that change :) nice got it ;)
<thorwil> kwwii: create rectangle, use gradient fill. copy rectangle. here i always get a new gradient with a number appended
<kwwii> thorwil: ahhh, right...now I get it
<kwwii> that is pretty funky
<kwwii> I usually build inkscape from source as well
<kwwii> but I really wish the inkscape nightly ppa was back online
<thorwil> i already build all my audio stuff from source. and synfig. if i add more, i could switch back to gentoo ;)
<zniavre> haha
<thorwil> at least none of those 9.10 X issues hit me
<darkmatter> does gentoo still suck? xD
<thorwil> actually it would be http://www.funtoo.org/. Daniel Robbins is back. portage tree in git, how's that for geekiness? ;)
<darkmatter> I was thinking more along the lines of 'lawl wut?'
<darkmatter> the 'lawl wut' being in reference to funtoo/gentoo/omgimdelusionaltoo being geeky :P
 * thorwil smuggles a tribble into darkmatter's basement
<darkmatter> tribble are tasty. just be sure to save them before roasting. I forgot to one.... phew... what a stench
<darkmatter> once*
<thorwil> hmm, what do i have to do to get a fill in sliders like with clearlooks, but starting from the Human theme?
<thorwil> actually, current Human has it, but my customized version doesn't
<kwwii> there is a scrollbar colorize option at the top
<kwwii> which will use the selection color
<kwwii> and down below there is another part to make it grey like it currently is in karmic
<thorwil> kwwii: does that affect both scrollbars and scales?
<thorwil> kwwii: i want that for scale, not scrollbars. already replaced scrollbars with a pixmap solution
<thorwil> sheesh, used meld and saw no differences that should have an effect here. gtkrc stinks
<mac_v> thorwil: scale and scrollbars are done separately , if you used pixmap , its not possible to colorize it , unless the pixmap for the prelight is done brighter
<thorwil> mac_v: i don't see any difference regarding scale in my gtkrc and the Human gtkrc, yet Human has a brown fill and mine doesn't
<kwwii> scale?
<mac_v> thorwil: could you pastbin the gtkrc :)
<mac_v> thorwil: human scale uses the murrine engine , hence the brown fill
<thorwil> mac_v: so does mine
<mac_v> thorwil: then you might have changed the "default" and defines mentioned there
<thorwil> ah, sorry for the noise, i just fixed it
<mac_v> ;)
<thorwil> "GtkScale       ::trough-side-details  = 1" was missing
<thorwil> i mean, that name clearly says it's about that fill to one side of the scale ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: cooking up a new theme? light or dark one?
<thorwil> light
<mac_v> :)
 * mac_v likes darker themes and almost completed one ;)
<mac_v> s/completed/completing
<thorwil> http://imagebin.org/70283
<kwwii> thorwil: I think that one thing that is going to come up at UDS is getting the community more invovled in the wallpapers (new team, old ideas :p)
<thorwil> kwwii: i think if you want to get past the status quo, you need significant additional effort
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I get the feeling we are going to have to explain the problems (again)
<thorwil> kwwii: maybe it will become clearer if explained with a hard german accent ^^
<kwwii> lol :p
 * kwwii wanders off to get lunch
<darkmatter> thorwil: a man after my own heart (scrollbars that attempt to blend with the window contents) :)
<darkmatter> looks pretty good
<thorwil> ty
<thorwil> this is some brutal hardcore: http://www.blendernation.com/bearubs-video/
<mac_v> anyone happen to know the class of the evolution mail list?
<mac_v> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
 * kwwii heads out to the doctor, be back in about an hour
<zniavre> http://art.gnome.org/themes/metacity     try to find the "next page" button
<zniavre> http://art.gnome.org/themes/metacity?page=2   > cause it exists ...   :o)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-11-04
<mac_v> anyone knows how to remove the 1px border that the input boxes have?  http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-The%20Widget%20Factory.png   nautilus doesnt seem to have it but the other inputboxes have it , it depends on the bg_color... :(
<kwwii> so, maybe my irc client will work better now
<mac_v> kwwii: any idea^?
<kwwii> mac_v: sorry, I didn't see your last comment, my irc client was going crazy
<mac_v> anyone knows how to remove the 1px border that the input boxes have?  http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-The%20Widget%20Factory.png   nautilus doesnt seem to have it but the other inputboxes have it , it depends on the bg_color... :(
<mac_v> kwwii: ^ , i'd like to remove the 1px borders
<kwwii> mac_v: you mean the line around the input box?
<kwwii> If so, I haven't found a way to get rid of it in murrine
<mac_v> damn! :(  ...
<mac_v> kwwii: any other engine which removes it?
<zniavre> GtkScrolledWindow::scrollbar-spacing		= 0   does the tricks?
<mac_v> zniavre: already have that.. this border exists around every input box :(
<zniavre> ho sorry
<mac_v> zniavre: no probs... :)
<andreasn> mac_v: wow, how did you manage to get rid of the gap there?
<mac_v> andreasn: hmmm , i havent... i still dont know how to remove the 1px line :(
<darkmatter> mac_v: that's a frames issue. you can kill it with a null pixmap and some pixbuf magic
<andreasn> mac_v: could it be that they are hardcoded by the toolkit or something?
<andreasn> it seems like it's possible to set border-width on widgets in glade
<andreasn> on GtkTextView at least
<darkmatter> andreasn: pixbuf magic is less painful. and the border is actually a gtk shadow. I've killed them numerous times
<thorwil> i wish the only thing that could be defined with glade (or in code placing widgets) would be the layout. no spacing
<mac_v> darkmatter: using null pixmap should solve this? ///me tries
<andreasn> darkmatter: ah, cool
<andreasn> the odd gap always struck me as weird
<andreasn> didn't know it was possible to control with the theme
<darkmatter> thorwil: general layout (spacing/padding/etc) should be hardcoded and not part of a theme, but rather tied to a well thought out and illustrated graphical design guidleline designed for aesthetically pleasing proportions.
<darkmatter> icon sizes, spacing and others should only be extenally affected by scalability in the ui. dpi, accessibility options and the like. throw all that crap out of the gtkrc imho
<thorwil> darkmatter: no, spacing shouldn't be hardcoded because the output device should be taken into account
<thorwil> bbl
<darkmatter> thorwil. read the second part. thats a matter of ui scalability. a well planned ui automatically adjusts for such things
<darkmatter> and a scalability patch already exists for gtk
<darkmatter> mac_v: yup. null pixmap, any size (even a 1x1 pixel one). just make a transparent png and don't doodle on it :P
<kwwii> erm, if anyone is going to use the pixmap engine be aware that there is a serious bug in gtk which makes all pixmap themes crash fspot
<darkmatter> kwwii: since? fspot runs fine for me with pixmaps oO
<kwwii> darkmatter: I was just made aware of the bug (in karmic)
<kwwii> all the themes that I tested made it crash
<darkmatter> ahhh... release specific. gotcha
<kwwii> it might be something very specific with a widget used in fspot
<mac_v> kwwii: i'm using karmic with pixmap scrollbar , no crash here
<thorwil> kwwii: i'm on karmic and f-spot runs here with a murrine/pixmap theme
<kwwii> mac_v, thorwil: have you really used fspot or just opened it?
<thorwil> kwwii: just opened. so what exactly triggers it?
<mac_v> kwwii: use it in the sense? bug#?
<kwwii> bug #411941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 411941 in gnome-themes-ubuntu "f-spot.exe crashes when using new wave theme" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411941
<darkmatter> kwwii: it could also be related to a funky gtkrc for a specific theme. I've seen it happen before. takes one wrong config call to crash a specific app/capplet. yet another reason for strictly enforcing gtk usage on the developers end
 * thorwil doesn't use f-spot because he hates the idea to have to "import" stuff
<kwwii> darkmatter: it happens with several different pixmap themes
<kwwii> thorwil: lol, me too ;)
<kwwii> I have hundreds of GBs of photos, it wants to import them all to my home dir :p
 * mac_v was happy with picasa...[which doesnt seem to work in Karmic :(  ] trying to use fspot
<kwwii> click between the different views in fspot
<kwwii> that is what makes it crash for me
<mac_v> thorwil: kwwii: you could just turn off that import
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, but I still think it sucks as a simple photo editor
<kwwii> I don't need an app just to browse my photos
<thorwil> mac_v: i have this strange idea that meta-data should stick to files and be app-independent
<mac_v> thorwil: fspot does that , sticks the meta to the photos... i hate that about picasa
<thorwil> mac_v: if it does, i see no reason for import. i thought it uses a separate database?
 * thorwil goes again
<mac_v> thorwil: preferences > Store tags & descriptions ,  the import is optional [i think it was done to add the feature to import for other drives]
<darkmatter> kwwii: like I said. bad widget call in the theme(s) involved is the most likely cause. though, of course, it could be a issue in karmic *shrug*
<kwwii> darkmatter: it seems weird that it only effects f-spot though
<mac_v> kwwii: odd workaround: set ubuntu to some other theme, go to preferences in f-spot, set theme to new wave, then set ubuntu back to new wave
<mac_v> mentioned in the comments^
<darkmatter> kwwii: I'd have to run a check of fspots widgets to be sure. but there's usually a hack that can get past issues like that. of course not running karmic compounds my problem :/
<kwwii> mac_v: as soon as I set the theme in f-spot to new wave it crashes as well
<mac_v> oh... lol , so not a workaround then ;)
<kwwii> darkmatter: yeah, I assigned it to gtk for now...I am sure they will get back to me if it is a theme problem ;)
<kwwii> oh well, time for lunch
<darkmatter> kwwii: it's old and therefore buggy (because of changes in gtk) and incomplete, but try http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Glory-Simplex?content=60326 and see if it crashes the bugger
<zniavre> ProcCmdline: f-spot /usr/lib/f-spot/f-spot.exe   ProcCmdline: f-spot /usr/lib/f-spot/f-spot.exe   .exe that s why it crash
<kwwii> darkmatter: yes, that crashes as well (but not as quickly as new wave)
<darkmatter> kk
<mac_v> style "null-frame"
<mac_v> {	
<mac_v> 	engine "pixmap"
<mac_v> 	{
<mac_v> 	image
<mac_v> 		{
<mac_v> 		function = BOX
<mac_v>         	file = "null.png"
<mac_v>         	border = {1, 1, 1, 1}
<mac_v> 		stretch = TRUE
<mac_v> 		}
<mac_v> 	}
<mac_v> }
<mac_v> darkmatter: the pixmap it a box or shadow or.. ?
<darkmatter> mac_v: sec. let me crack open an rc
<mac_v> i tried box and shadow , it didnt work :(
<mac_v> also is it > class "MetaFrames" or class "GtkFrame"  ?
<darkmatter> mac_v: here's all my relevant code for entries and shadows (needs a small tad of updating but still works). cut, paste, and replace images/paths at your own discretion
<darkmatter> http://pastebin.ca/1656532
<darkmatter> http://pastebin.ca/1656533
<darkmatter> mac_v: the basic shadow bits should fix it for you since its a dark theme and you can't see your shadows anyway :P
<darkmatter> I'll probably update my template gtkrc next week (after I finish up with my epic dr appointments)
<darkmatter> here's a nice little hack for the clock button if you want it to fit in better with the other panel applets
<darkmatter> widget "*clock-applet-button*" style "theme-panelbutton-clock"
<mac_v> oh! i give up... :( nothing seems to work for me :(
<mac_v> darkmatter: which clock button?
<mac_v> the "edit" button?
<mac_v> it seems to inherit the theme
<thorwil> mac_v: i think that was one of the design intentions for gtk theming: make people give up
<darkmatter> mac_v: main panel. it's normall inherited from the default buttons in the theme, but using that you could restyle it to match the 'menu' look of others like the presence applet and crap
<mac_v> thorwil: even stupid is how , the app devs design their app :/  ex: they use the bg_color for the status bar but use the color of the statusbar text from the text_color ack!
<darkmatter> mac_v: thats always been the real issue. tons of widgets. no standard rules for usage
<mac_v> darkmatter: hehe , i made the clock use the button style but the menus to use a different look :)
<darkmatter> mac_v: you can do things like 'theme-panelbutton-clock' = 'theme-menu-item' (naming scheme not withstanding, since thats a matter of the theme itself)and then just define matching symbolic colors or whatever in the theme. it'll basically link back in the widget/class calls and make it behave like a menu entry instead of a button (as far as appearance)
<darkmatter> I edited my personal copies of the suse themes because I missed the old intlclock theming :P
<mac_v> darkmatter: interesting idea... that way the clock wont light up on hover like a button?
<darkmatter> mac_v: did you define the color's for the states?
<darkmatter> and did you name the pat after '=' in accordance to your themes naming scheme?
<darkmatter> for the widget call I mean
<mac_v> darkmatter: i did this > widget "*clock-applet-button*" style "panel"
<darkmatter> mac_v: ahh... which styles it after the panel :P
<darkmatter> thus no button effect
<mac_v> darkmatter: actually it has the button effect :(
<darkmatter> you said it didn't. you lied! :P
<darkmatter> nm.. misread :P
<mac_v> darkmatter: how do i change the cursor color? only for nautilus ?
<darkmatter> mac_v: I need sleep.. go figure. but instead I'm making coffee
<darkmatter> mac_v: cursor? as in? text entry or other?
<mac_v> darkmatter: during the "rename" that cursor
<mac_v> widget_class "*Nautilus*IconView*"     style "nautilus-view"
<mac_v> right now i'm using this ^ to edit the background
<darkmatter> oh... umm... crap. I'll look that up in a sec. never used it but I'm pretty sure it can be done
<mac_v> but when the color gets dark the cursor is still the same black while i'm able to make the text white
<darkmatter> but first. need caffeine xD
<mac_v> lol :)
<darkmatter> mac_v: the 'biggest' theming nightmares. inkscape, nautilus, evolution and openoffice.
<mac_v> darkmatter: i'v figured out most of evolution , nautilus the cursor is bugging... gave up on OOo and edited the theme to be a bit lighter ;)  oddly inkscape has been noce to me ;)
<mac_v> nice*
<darkmatter> nautilus has about a dozen unique widgets that can be used to tweak its look
<darkmatter> mac_v: I've been working on a test theme to make the nautilus sidebar match the sidebar on the control-center/app browser in all views.  pita
<mac_v> darkmatter: done ;)
<darkmatter> ever widget you change rapes another widget. the nautilus section is big enough to fill its own gtkrc :P
<mac_v> darkmatter: you meant the sidebar [places , tree , emblems stuff] right?
<darkmatter> it would be grand if gtk let you actually format text instead of font/face/size/color
<darkmatter> mac_v: yup
<mac_v> darkmatter: the sidepane and the folderview are using the colors defined in the gtkrc > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-gtk-2.0%20-%20File%20Browser.png
<darkmatter> mac_v: as a general rule yes. but I'm trying to avoid affecting certain lists (like in the appearances dialog etc) got it working somewhat, but still a few issues. the biggest is I want 'buttons' for a consistent metaphor, but by default that changes selections in listviews etc. so I need to go on a widget warpath :P
<darkmatter> if all else fails I'll just give up and leave the selected entries as is. but not before I rip out all my hair trying :p
<mac_v> darkmatter: you mean that it should be independent of the appearances window , like this ? > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-1.png
<mac_v> the list views are white but only nautilus is dark
<darkmatter> mac_v: yeah. got that part. I meant the entries themselves though
<mac_v> ah...
<darkmatter> if I set a translucent button image that matches the theme, it also affects other lists
 * mac_v wonders why the bookmarks in the siadepane are below the filesystems and the drives... away from the desktop and home... places menu seems to have a sane order
<darkmatter> mac_v: for the usual reasons. gnome lacks consistent design. compare places, go menus, bookmarks, etc that contain locations across any gnome apps that use them... highly inconsistent
<mac_v> darkmatter: i think nautilus tried to use the gtk orders ...
<darkmatter> they should all use an identical layout as a general rule
<darkmatter> mac_v: yeah. but the point is consistent ui. patterns were conceived for a reason :P
<darkmatter> if I wanted a totally random interface I'd use xp ;D
<mac_v> yeah... everyone has their own idea... i guess thats what happens when its a collection of folks :)
<darkmatter> mac_v: I actual had an idea many moons ago for a skunkworks playground, and have been working on a gui design for about 2 years now. it's almost 'good enough' to turn into an actual proposal/brainstorming starting point
<darkmatter> mac_v: basically a place where designers and devs can get together without there egos attached and experiment with new directions/technologies
<kwwii> darkmatter: I've thought about trying to restructure the artwork team into more of a design team, allowing for more work like you suggest
<mac_v> darkmatter: sounds great... :)  when are you planning on pushing it forward?
<darkmatter> kwwii: cool
<mac_v> as usual kwwii to the rescue ;)
<kwwii> lol, I wish it was that easy ;)
<darkmatter> mac_v: once I finish ironing out activity/object/group management. the design is meant to be mor freeform and intuitive with managing windows, multiple documents, etc. the rest of the ideas are on paper, just the last hurdle then I can write it up/get feedback, publish and propose etc. so still a lot of work :P
<thorwil> the really hard part is getting stuff to be implemented
<darkmatter> mac_v: the idea ties into the primary interface as well (dock/panel/shelf/choose a name :P). atm we deal with windows and instances of applications
<kwwii> thorwil: right
 * mac_v thinks thorwil is having the scrollbar idea in mind :)
<darkmatter> the idea is to be able to group by relation, and regroup according to individual workflow
<kwwii> even if you spec things out perfectly and have good examples and even perhaps a functioning mockup it is still hard to get developer buy-in
<thorwil> kwwii: i'm afraid we have even fewer people worthy of being called designers than those you could call artists
<thorwil> some might even fail to see a difference ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: agreed, but now that we have a design team, we could get them to help build the community team, as well as tying the usability people into the design process
<kwwii> lol, no doubt
<mac_v> kwwii: i think its more , ego , which prevents the main devs from adopting the new ideas
<kwwii> mac_v: I think mainly it is the amount of work and experience of the average dev
<darkmatter> so, as an example of a possible default for an activity. you're a dev, working on a project. you have an ide, a terminal, glade, blah blah open, because they are part of the same activity, they are grouped together
<kwwii> developing the low-level toolkits and such is not an easy job
<kwwii> the whole problem with gtk is that they currently have nobody to lead the development...just people to maintain the current stuff
<darkmatter> so, in that one small regard, instead of tabbing/scrolling though a list of open windows, you can switch between activities and just select the desired document/app from the one you need. it goes a lot further. but thats a basic example
<darkmatter> and indeed. at any level, window management, actual applications. document level stuff, notifications, integration, etc it requires a ton of work to accomplish a 'good' ui
<darkmatter> because conceptual simplicity requires an underlying structural complexity
<darkmatter> the simpler/easier/more humanly understandable you want something to work. the more technical abstraction you need under the hood
<darkmatter> not 'hiding options' or 'dumbing down', but making more intelligent api/services/frameworks/etc
<darkmatter> ok.. I'm done babbling... I think :P
<kwwii> ;)
<mac_v> :)
<kwwii> I bet you're not :p
<darkmatter> kwwii: don't get me started again. I've another 48 hours worth of general descriptiveness in me :P
 * mac_v wonders when this might become a reality :)
<kwwii> lol
<mac_v> darkmatter: any documentation on the web? are you keeping it all hidden in your head ;p
<darkmatter> mac_v: without going of on another babble fest. I'll just say: I don't believ in applications. I believe in activities and data. I dont believe in email, irc, IM, etc, I believe in 'communication', I also don't believe in home as a system directory, but as a place where I can find all my favorite stuff ;o
<darkmatter> mac_v: notebooks, paper illustrations atm :P
<mac_v> oh boy!... then definately not earlier than 10 yrs ;p
<darkmatter> mac_v: lol.. much sooner than that. I just need a few boring mockups and a night or two of typing :P
<darkmatter> mac_v: just time constraints. that and I still need to start a blog on teh blogger
<thorwil> if one feels depressed about the state of ubuntu-artwork, one should have a look at the current thread on ubuntu-marketing ^^
<mac_v> hmm ,anyone on a wired connection?
 * thorwil is careful
<thorwil> mac_v: maybe? ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: could you check , if Bug 386900 is really fixed? Andrew just marked it fixed , without properly checking :/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386900 in hundredpapercuts ""Auto eth0" , In notifications , is confusing for most people" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386900
<mac_v> i'm not able to check since i use a wireless connection
<thorwil> mac_v: i read "Auto eth2" there
<mac_v> argh! :/
<mac_v> thorwil: thanks :)
<mac_v> thorwil: just to confirm , thats in the notify-osd notifications, right?
<thorwil> mac_v: no. how do i trigger that?
<mac_v> thorwil: hmm , try disconnecting and reconnecting
<thorwil> Auto eth2. Connection established
<mac_v> :(
<mac_v> thorwil: thanks... :)
 * thorwil wonders how the irc client doesn't mind disconnect/reconnect
<mac_v> psyke83: hi... know how to remove the 1px border that the input boxes have?  http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-The%20Widget%20Factory.png   nautilus doesnt seem to have it but the other inputboxes have it , it depends on the bg_color... :(
<psyke83> mac_v: is that scrollbar from an engine or pixmap?
<mac_v> psyke83: pixmap
<mac_v> its just a rough one... need to make it look better ;)
<psyke83> I think that the pixel you see is the outline of the GtkBox container for the listview
<psyke83> so, you can't get rid of it
<mac_v> :( ...
<mac_v> psyke83: it depends on bg[normal]... it seems to make it darker bg[normal] , what is the correct class?
<psyke83> I'm guessing that the parent class is GtkBox (which I don't think is defined in themes), so it would get overridden by other classes
<psyke83> I'm not completely certain though, so you might want to double-check with a gtk expert (I'm sure they have channels on this server?)
<mac_v> oh .. ok
<mac_v> next , i'll have to ask in gnome-art... ;)
<psyke83> mac_v: do you see the pixel border on all other widgets, or is it just the listviews (which is what happens to be beside it in twf)?
<mac_v> psyke83: in all inputboxes , the 1px barder is present
<mac_v> border*
<psyke83> so it would also affect gtkentry...
<psyke83> perhaps it's not related to gtkbox, but certain classes such as gtkentry and gtklistview
<mac_v> it doesnt seem to
<mac_v> entry doesnt have the border
<mac_v> or maybe it does ;)
<mac_v> it really doesnt matter for a dark theme  though
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-11-05
 * kwwii wanders off to bed
<kwwii> night all
<darkmatter> she kinda looks like a boy without a shaved head too!
<darkmatter> opps.. wrong tab :P
 * thorwil studies http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2010.0_Tour
<kwwii> thorwil: did you fill out the online form to be allowed to travel to america?
<kwwii> https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/esta.html?_flowExecutionKey=_c5B7675B6-BFA5-9175-0174-D2284FAD7E5B_k695AD01A-33A1-BE40-3952-5B76A4AB6143
<thorwil> kwwii: yes. i said: no, no, no and no I don't plan any act of terror, no sir and they immediately granted permission
<kwwii> killer, I was worried that nobody told you about that ;)
<kwwii> the rest of the design team just figured out that they need it (and we are all leaving this sat/sun
<thorwil> kwwii: there's a note in the footer of the BTS mail
<kwwii> )
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> kwwii: how's your experience with laptop checks so far?
<kwwii> thorwil: I have never had them do anything more than put it through the xray
<kwwii> and I bring two with me ;)
<thorwil> angeber ;)
<kwwii> just make sure there are no anti-american slogans on stickers or anything which looks like arabic writing on the outside ;)
<kwwii> genau ;)
<kwwii> neeee, ich muss jetzt immer mein Mac dabei haben um mit meine kollegen zu arbeiten :p
<thorwil> i have to lend my mother's laptop, my desktop is to bulky for carry-on
<thorwil> kwwii: force them to use all the adobe stuff on wine or on a virtual machine ;)
 * thorwil doesn't care for photoshop or illustrator much, but kinda misses flash
<thorwil> mac_v: i worked on my scrollbar demo a bit. would be nice if you could try to find holes in the behavior, where it acts in strange ways
<thorwil> mac_v: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/dynamic_scrollbar/download/head%3A/dynamic_scrollbar.py-20080816162703-x7ucp0vpno3hwmdb-1/dynamic_scrollbar.py
<thorwil> good night! :)
<kwwii> night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-11-06
<mac_v> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<demongt> any idea how to change the login screen?
<mac_v> demongt: it is hard coded [for now] , you could try this > http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/09/hack-karmics-gdm-login-screen.html
<demongt> iv seen how to's talking about there being a option to change it?
<demongt> but on mine it only lets me change weather i login auto or not?
<mac_v> demongt: there is no such option in karmic to change themes
<mac_v> demongt: only the two you mention are available for now
<demongt> wait...whats karmic
<mac_v> demongt: ubuntu 9.10
<demongt> OOO
<demongt> im new to the linux thing
<mac_v> demongt: no probs , why do you want to change the login theme anyway? its not you are going to be looking at it for long
 * mac_v just trying to understand
<demongt> im picky
<demongt> haha
<demongt> i like to customize.
<mac_v> demongt: try the link i gave you , i havent tried it yet...
<demongt> humm, so why did they change it?
<mac_v> demongt: Ubuntu did not change it , it was changed in gnome > you can read more about it > Bug #395299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395299 in gdm "gdm 2.26 has no graphical configuration tool" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395299
<mac_v> demongt: that bug is not related to the features as theming , but it has some info
<demongt> oo i forgot. two seperat things unlike windows
<mac_v> demongt: if you find the theming missing , file a separate bug for that
<mac_v> kwwii: argh! stupid bloggers > "With Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala the GDM has been rewritten to properly take advantage of xsplash, Ubuntu's new X based boot." < they write wrong info such as this :/
<demongt> i messed with linux over ten years ago and just recently decided to give it a try again after finally pulling my hair out with vista
<ZachK_> hi
<kwwii> good morning all
<thorwil> good morning!
<mac_v_> thorwil: hi... i checked out the scrollbar...  works great  , but IMO , there can be 2 changes
<thorwil> i'm all ears
<mac_v_> 1> on hover when the pointer turns into the vertical resize , it could be the hand grab pointer
<mac_v_> since the arrows use the point hand  , but the handle uses a different pointer
<mac_v_> 2> the page scroll was difficult to figure out in a laptop
<mac_v_> it took a while for me to realize that i had to click twice to initiate the page scroll
<thorwil> mac_v: the hand grab pointer is used for multi-direction/panning elsewhere. also, the difference between the cursor for dragging and clicking arrows would be less pronounced
<thorwil> mac_v: oh. you don't have to click twice for page scroll
<mac_v_> hmm , the single clicks dont do it for me...
<thorwil> mac_v: there's a delay before a mouse-down with no drag start to be interpreted as page scroll
<mac_v_> oh...
<thorwil> this delay is necessary to not have page scroll if you want to drag
<thorwil> hmm, maybe i could also trigger page scroll after a click
<mac_v_> thorwil: hmm , maybe it also needs to factor in the double-click threshold.. since if i click once the scrollbar is non reactive , then i click again it again was non reactive. it just took me a while to figure it out ,
<mac_v_> or something , else
<mac_v_> thorwil: or you keep the present behavior and also use the right-click to trigger the page scroll
<mac_v_> my first instinct was to use the right click when the left click didnt work
<thorwil> mac_v: yes, seems i focused too much on the repeat action (try holding button pressed). so doing page scroll on mouse-up if there was no drag or holding should fix that
<thorwil> mac_v: right click is taken for context menu
<thorwil> mac_v: anyway, thanks, you did find a hole :)
<mac_v_> thorwil: yeah , but there is no context menu there , so if the right-click works , this way the users would know that the page scroll works , and they might in time figure out that there is a delay to trigger the scroll with left-click...  or which ever you find better :)
<thorwil> mac_v: why do you think there's no context menu?
<thorwil> mac_v: don't answer, i just realized i broke it somehow
<mac_v_> thorwil: oh , lol , there was supposed to be a context menu there?... what where the options avail?
<thorwil> mac_v: in my demo just Start and End. the idea is to allow (additional) anchors/bookmarks, though
<mac_v_> ah , ok
<mac_v_> thorwil: how do you use the vertical resize? is is the high contrast pointer or..?
<thorwil> mac_v: i'm not sure what you mean
<mac_v_> thorwil: oh , nevermind , i was using a pointer theme which didnt have the resize pointer
<mac_v_> thorwil: hmm , but the resize pointer would be a bit confusing to the users , i think it would need a new pointer , something in the likes of the scroll pointer in windows which appears when users scroll using the mouse scroll... well thats something that isnt fixable now , though... :)
<darkmatter> just use DMZ-AA. best cursor theme imo. clean. works on light and dark equally well. blus sharper looking than the regular DMZ
<coz_> darkmatter, ok   this is a better place to discuss that topic :)
<darkmatter> yup
<coz_> darkmatter,  I agree... it is definitly unhealthy  and seeing what was done to karmic in terms of graphics  I am very frustrated
<darkmatter> coz_: too much lock in. I mean. don't get me wrong. uby has come a long way in general, but it still suffers from the same problems as well
<kwwii> coz_: what were you unhappy about in karmic?
<coz_> darkmatter,  I think  what needs to change is the approach... a team...prefereably this one...comes up with  three options  for a final decision...and ONLY those three options are available with no one being allowed to change them  then they choose one and go with it
<darkmatter> :)
<coz_> kwwii,   well   the overall boot sequence is a disaster...the default wallpaper and default themes could be better as well
<kwwii> hehe, I agree that the boot sequence went somewhat south but that is mainly due to the code not being ready
<kwwii> and considering that we weren't going to change anything in the UI it is at least a bit better and a step in the right direction
<coz_> kwwii,  unfortunately...  but my god  a muddy brown image during boot?  lol
<kwwii> but I don't think that you will ever see the default look of ubuntu being decided upon by the community any time soon
<kwwii> originally, the whole thing was b/w but we had to put a bit of brown into it to smooth the transition
<coz_> kwwii,  no but I believe that a conical based art team...going by what has occurred in the last few versions..is a highe mistake
<kwwii> but anyway, I can see where you are coming from, so thanks for the explanation
<coz_> huge mistake rather
<kwwii> coz_: I think that the canonical team needs to communicate things better, which is part of what we are working on
<kwwii> last time around we had plans which were shown to the public too late
<coz_> kwwii,  I think the cononical team needs some training
<kwwii> part of out time next week, before UDS is to get our info together so that we can share it with the community
<kwwii> coz_: hehe, no doubt..it is a totally new team with almost everyone coming from outside the OSS world
<coz_> kwwii,   we need quality artists  working these things and not allowing "ANY" developer to make a final decision on graphics on any level
<thorwil> kwwii: i'm curious: who of the team besides you had prior contact with the OSS world?
<kwwii> thorwil: afaik, nobody
<coz_> oh my
<kwwii> and I have been around for so long that they think i am a bitchy old man
<kwwii> :p
<thorwil> lol
<coz_> kwwii,  cool I like bitchy old men   I am with you  guy lol
<darkmatter> kwwii: you are a bitchy old man :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  he fits in if so lol
<thorwil> kwwii: should get to know Troy. will think you are all cute and cuddly afterwards ;)
<darkmatter> hehe
<coz_> thorwil, lol  I like troy
<kwwii> thorwil: oh, they have met troy
<coz_> who buy the way had a wonderful boot sequence mock up apparenlty ignored
<thorwil> so do I. but it's a bit of a special experience to talk with him ;)
<darkmatter> I haven't talked with Troy in ages... he's moodier than I am xD
<kwwii> one day I walked into a meeting room and was asked the question "Do you know who Troy Sobotka is?" with a serious look on everyones face
<thorwil> kwwii: anyone got hurt? :)
<kwwii> and the first thing I thought was "oh shit, what has he said about me" :p
<kwwii> but it turned out quite differently :)
<coz_> lol
<coz_> kwwii,  why did they ask?
<coz_> kwwii,  was it fear ?
<coz_> lol
<kwwii> he had been in contact per email and expressed some views which kinda scared 'em I think
<kwwii> it was quite funny
<mac_v> coz_: i have to disagree that the default wallpaper is bad... it is a very cheerful wallpaper
<coz_> mac_v,   mmm   are you on medication ? lol
<thorwil> mac_v: i think it bites with the gtk theme
<coz_> mac_v,  that was a joke
<coz_> thorwil,  yes it does
<kwwii> if you look at the forum and other places, there has been *very* little negative comments about the karmic artwork
<mac_v> coz_: thorwil: i'm not a fan of the theme , but the wallpaper is definately not bad... medicated or not ;p
<darkmatter> kwwii: the best thing about Troy is ya usually agree with half of his opinions, even though you may approach voicing them differently ;)
<coz_> troy has always been easy to talk with ... I agree with him for the most part  and if not we argue  quite well
<kwwii> darkmatter: yeah, it's not that I disagree with what he says, he just has a way of discussing things which is hard to deal with sometimes :D
 * mac_v catches full scrollback
<coz_> kwwii,  really?  mm he is a bit "wordy"
<kwwii> at times I have thoght of suggesting he write a book
<darkmatter> kwwii: yeah. I know that personally I try to keep my implications that OSS in inhabited by talentless morons down to one insult/week :P
<coz_> troy knows what he is talking about   I dont agree with some of his approaches in an art team environment but otherwise I understand him
<coz_> darkmatter,   oh man I have to catch up then I am down to once every two weeks lol
<kwwii> if he wasn't at least close to being right, nobody would have kept talking to him :p
<darkmatter> coz_: lol
<kwwii> he was a great help with the wallpaper selection process
<coz_> troy?
<kwwii> yeah, the selection of the extra wallpapers which were included in karmic
<darkmatter> but his approach isn't all bed, even I've been known to do similar. the ultimate cure for a narcissistic 'expert': imply they're retarded. then they feel obliged to prove they aren't :P
<darkmatter> bad*
<coz_> kwwii, well at least there are extras included :)
<coz_> I would have chosen a different set
<kwwii> coz_: I was kinda sad that nobody seemed to notice them yet
<kwwii> lol
<coz_> kwwii,   well I did :)
<coz_> kwwii,   also I believe I am no longer on the "team" roster
<coz_> kwwii,   I have tried to no avial
<coz_> maybe for the best..but at some point...if I want a slot for saying something ,,I should join again
<darkmatter> there's one or two that are 'nice' in my opinion, but I have slightly more evolved tastes than users do ;o
<thorwil> evolved is the nice way to express it
 * mac_v wonders if coz_ kwwii and darkmatter are kinda scared of troy_s... talking when he isnt around ;p
<darkmatter> butterfly and naranja are probably the best in the new set. of those two butterfly is by far the superior
<coz_> mac_v,  not in the least afraid
<coz_> mac_v,  i would disagree with him  many times  and he  wold never back down but neither would i
<mac_v> coz_: j/k ;)
<darkmatter> mac_v: I'd talk when he is around, but I sleep during daylight xD
<mac_v> lol
<coz_> mac_v,   I just had a converstation with him last week for about an hour or so
<darkmatter> coz_: I'd chat with him, but he's rarely online at the same time ass me *checks buddy list* see? no troy :P
<mac_v> kwwii: what is the actual default wallpaper  ? you mentioned it was a photo... a photo of what?
<coz_> darkmatter,  you might be able to catch him onhis blog
 * darkmatter is considering reworking his shelf concept :(
<Gopikrishnan> phi all
<darkmatter> coz_:  mac_v: I need to avoid surfing the net. I keep finding hidden gems that make me wanna cry :/
<mac_v> darkmatter: odd choice of the best[ butterfly and naranja] , the butterfly is good , but IMO , not the best for the default wallpaper...
<coz_> darkmatter,   oh yes I understand :)
<mac_v> darkmatter: hidden gems? i didnt understand :(
<darkmatter> mac_v: never said default. I said out of the extras they're the best
<mac_v> ah , ok
<kwwii> mac_v: it is a photo of a piece of papaer
<kwwii> paper
<mac_v> hmm , interesting shot ...
 * mac_v hides
<kwwii> darkmatter: hehe, I took the butterfly pic
<kwwii> it's "as-taken", not manipulated
 * mac_v now hides from kwwii too about the butterfly
<kwwii> I wouldn't use it as my wallpaper but apparently women love it :P
<darkmatter> mac_v: remember I was talking about group/object/activity management the other day? I stumbled upon screenies of early internal alphas of the win7 superbar. the way they 'count' items, and collapsible groups, and color coding tasks... is similar to my shelf to some degree (graphically, minus the glasy crap) :/
<mac_v> darkmatter: ah... see you should have written about it first... ;)
<coz_> ok I guess I can set this channel as defauilt in xchat...again... seems there exists intelligence here after all lol
<mac_v> coz_: hmm , do you know about gtk themes and theming?
<darkmatter> mac_v: nah. my idea is still totally different, but when I see similar 'art' I get nervous. it's the whole 'zomg! copycat!' mentality even though the actual differences in how it works are substantial.
<coz_> mac_v,  to what extent ?
<thorwil> darkmatter: i know that feeling
<darkmatter> mac_v: it's an art/design thing I'm sure we're all familiar with. you want to remain 'unique'
<darkmatter> thorwil: yeah. I think we all know the feeling
<mac_v> coz_: i'm trying to get rid of the 1px border for the list boxes > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-The%20Widget%20Factory.png   , i'm not sure what is the exact widget class , or how to prevent them from being displayed... any ideas?
<mac_v> darkmatter: yeah , its tough , sometimes the idea wouldnt even be the same but still it would be called a copy :/
<coz_> mac_v,  should be in the grkrc  I wo uld have to look at the theme though
<coz_> mac_v,   although darkmatter  might be able to say immediately
<coz_> I always defer when i am hungry :)
<coz_> be back after breakfast guys  :)
<mac_v> darkmatter: did you narrow it down? i'm still not able to figure it out :( input boxes just dont like me :(
<thorwil> oh boy: http://succeedblog.org/
<darkmatter> mac_v: try adding GtkTextView to the list of widgets where I told ya to define with the null, as gtk is dumb like that. some are defined as basic widgets for the frams (using shadows) others textview, etc. I think the list boxes use GtkTextView iirc
<darkmatter> thorwil: neat. I like the rubics cube mona lisa
 * thorwil has a suspicion that gtk would need to be replaced with something else to have chance of getting all the details right
<darkmatter> mac_v: actually, i shouldn't call gtk dumb, I should call the devs coding the guis dumb :P
<kwwii> bratsche (cody russell) is working for canonical and has some pretty neat stuff in gtk coming
<darkmatter> thorwil: the problem with gtk is there are to many options for how to accomplish various ui bits. it really needs nothing more than a widget cleanup
<kwwii> so there are ways to change things, you just need to pay the right people :p
<zniavre_> good evening / bonjour
<darkmatter> get rid of the hackishness and in doing so force compliance to a coding standard for the ui
<darkmatter> kwwii: pay them or lurk behind them and whack them with a blunt instrument when they try to cheat. both methods are equally effective ;)
<darkmatter> kwwii: but back to the butterfly wall. it's really a matter of bokeh being more effective for photo backgrounds. 1) they have a greater illusion of depth due to the changes in focus, so windows tend to 'pop' more 2) the same varied focus makes them less detailed and therefor less visually distracting. btw. very well composed image. good job
<coz_> so what graphics applications is everyone using?
<coz_> which graphics apps rather
<darkmatter> coz_: the usual. gimp or inkscape, depending on what needs to be accomplished
<coz_> darkmatter,  ok have you tried   mypaint recently?  bitmap based
<thorwil> inkscape, gimp, blender. in few cases scribus. recently a bit synfig
<coz_> thorwil,   I havent worked much with sinfig
<coz_> pencil  is cool for flash
<darkmatter> coz_: nope. I've seen it, but haven't used it. I've been thinking of giving skencil a go
<coz_> darkmatter,   try Pencil instead
<thorwil> recently tried krita and mypaint. i will likely do some more digital drawing using mypaint in future
<coz_> darkmatter,  skencil is a bit old
<coz_> thorwil,  mypaint is making its way up for sure
<coz_> thorwil,  close to competing with Corel Painter
<coz_> soon
<coz_> inkscape is my first c hoice
<coz_> although all I have been doing with inkscape are themes for cairo dock at this point...troy asked that I do a few major pieces with inkscapr  but havent found the time
<darkmatter> coz_: inkscape is great, but it has a few wankery things about it
<coz_> darkmatter,  for sure but it far exceeds  adobe illustrator and adheres to the svg standard  which illustrator does not with proproetary formats
<darkmatter> yup
<zniavre_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid/PixOffice  > metacity is really nice no?
<zniavre_> ho it's the same guy who sent the 5 themes
<kwwii> yeah, and it doesn't seem to really be something for lucid
<coz_> i am not  liking that at all
<mac_v> zniavre_: it looks retro , more like an old xp theme
<coz_> selected items are too dark first off
<coz_> and grey all over :)
<zniavre_> the gtk is bad i still think
<zniavre_> mac_v,  taht s true
<mac_v> damn you gtk! arghhhhhh....
<darkmatter> kwwii: retro ports of windowblinds themes from '98ish that are fugly to say the least. plus they're not gpl (regardless of what the gtk porter may try to publish it as)
<kwwii> darkmatter: lol, yeah...I'll try to contact the person and tell them that I am removing them
<zniavre_> thank you   :o)
 * mac_v wonders if zniavre_ has a round nose ;p  
 * thorwil wonders if mac_v has no nose, then
<zniavre_> haha
<mac_v>  nope , thorwil cut it off long back :)
<coz_> mac_v,  did you find that entry in  gtkrc?
<thorwil> mac_v: that's outrageous! you imply that i have bad memory!!
<mac_v> thorwil: yup... ;p
<mac_v> coz_: no :(
<coz_> mac_v,  can you upload the gtkrc maybe i can find it
<darkmatter> kwwii: in fact, iirc treetog wiped his dA gallery because people kept ignoring licenses and ripping his work (treetogs the original author of all those themes proposed for lucid)
<kwwii> ouch, then I better remove them quickly
<mac_v> coz_: I have to clean it up a bit , right now it has lot of stuff which i just added , , but do that in a bit
<mac_v> and upload
<coz_> mac_v,  ok no big hurry
 * kwwii gets lunch
<darkmatter> kwwii: from the gtl-poters gnome-look entries ' I decided to have a go at creating a port for gnome, i have unfortunately been unable to contact Treetog, so if he so wishes at any point i will of course remove the theme'
<mac_v> darkmatter: link?
<darkmatter> that's a potential license violation (I dun know what license treetog used) at the very least its disrespect for previous work (never port/borrow/or frankenstien without express written permission)
<darkmatter> ops.. wrong treetog theme :.. sec
<darkmatter> oh lookie. pix office and the others are 'gone' from the *-look sites.. hmmm
<darkmatter> there are still themes (cursors etc) from other porters. but all without permissions
<darkmatter> write the guy that posted to the wiki and ask him to present written permissions. if he cant scrap the entries I guess *shrug*
<kwwii> cool
<mac_v> ah well , if you can beat em join em ;) > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/New.png
<kwwii> I already deleted the page
<kwwii> (s)
<mac_v> there are other problems if we try to use the same color of the input boxes , some windows add padding  , so it gets dissociated there too ;)
<mac_v> coz_: ^
<coz_> mac_v,   you fixed?
<coz_> mmm
<mac_v> no , i just changed the color of the scroolbars , to match the color of the borders ;p
<coz_> oh :)
<coz_> mac_v,  I will call that a "fix"  :)
<mac_v> lol ;)
<coz_> be back in a bit.. I have a few things to compile here
<fagan> I need an artist for a little project
<fagan> I need an icon and a logo for a project that im going to show off at the UDS https://launchpad.net/parental-control/
<fagan> Im asking here because I like the stick men on your wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork and id like if one of you changed one of them to make an icon out of it
<thorwil> fagan: https://launchpad.net/~baerjj-gmail is responsible for the stick men
<fagan> Cool ill send on an email
 * thorwil goes fore a walk
<southwind> i wish to contribute my skill to the art works of ubuntu but i dont know how
<southwind> can any one help me
<mac_v> southwind: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<mac_v> southwind: also , do join the artwork mailing list and introduce yourself
<southwind> k
<southwind> :)
<southwind> link to mail list
<mac_v> southwind: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art , also other info are in the wiki page i gave you above
<southwind> thank u
<mac_v> kwwii: how do i get a new icon added to the notify-osd pack? i'm thinking of getting a patch in ubufox so that the download complete notification uses the notify-osd ...  But there isnt any icon for "action completed" , i'v been using an icon for that in the same style as the notify-osd icons...
<mac_v> into ubufox*
<shane_fagan> mac_v: id say you should ask one of the Dx team
<mac_v> shane_fagan: it was discussed in ayatana , but the deadline for karmic has crossed so , it didnt happen...
<shane_fagan> mac_v: I sub ayatana so I know and I alpha tested ubuntu too so I saw it when it came in
<shane_fagan> The firefox notifications I mean
<mac_v> shane_fagan: you mean the notifications are already using notify-osd?
<shane_fagan> They did for about a day in karmic alpha 6
<shane_fagan> then beta came out and it was removed
<shane_fagan> the icon was weird if I remember
<mac_v> strange ... i'v been using karmic since alpha 2 and i didnt notice this... but anyway , maybe i was using the notify-osd already  , so i dint know ;)
<shane_fagan> :)
<shane_fagan> mac_v: are you going to the UDS?
<mac_v> shane_fagan: nope... cant make it
<shane_fagan> Well there will be more than likely some talk of firefox notifications
<shane_fagan> ill mention it
<mac_v> shane_fagan: yeah  , thats why i was mentioning it to kwwii now itself ;)
<shane_fagan> ah yeah
<mac_v> shane_fagan: good , now more folks to bring up the topic :)
<shane_fagan> Well notification consistency is a must
<mac_v> shane_fagan: hmm , you are involved a bit with the gnome-shell right?
<shane_fagan> mac_v: yep
<mac_v> shane_fagan: so what happens to compiz when -shell lands?
<shane_fagan> its getting dropped
<shane_fagan> for mutter
<mac_v> shane_fagan: oh... so with mutter we'd have all the same magic?
<shane_fagan> its a mix between metacity and clutter
<mac_v> nearly , i mean
<shane_fagan> you can try it out if you build shell
<shane_fagan> no wobbly windows but there are some cool other stuff
<mac_v> shane_fagan: yeah , i did try it out , but my ATI drivers such... so didnt work out too well :(
<shane_fagan> ah
<shane_fagan> that would be a problem it is a little heavy at the moment
<mac_v> shane_fagan: no wobbly windows? aw... that was something that seemed to make the system feel more natural
<shane_fagan> mac_v: well thats just with all the builds that I have seen maybe someone can add the wobblyness to the windows :)
 * mac_v hopes so too ;)  
<shane_fagan> mac_v: Im making a parental control for the UDS too
<mac_v> without wobbly when i use windows OS  , the windows feel so rigid and weird
<shane_fagan> true
<mac_v> shane_fagan: parental control for UDS? or for the OS?
<shane_fagan> mac_v: well its for the OS and ill have it made for the UDS
<shane_fagan> :D
<mac_v> ah , /me a bit slow ;p
<mac_v> shane_fagan:  that sounds great , i dont think there is or was one already ?
<shane_fagan> mac_v: thats why I made it
<mac_v> lol ;)
<mac_v> lmao! , ubuntu-devel got a spam, i suppose, mentioning it won macbook ;p
<alefteris> hi all, are there any source files for the xsplash/gdk background image? I would like to use it for for produsing some images for our loco website. thanks
<mac_v> alefteris: you want the brown background or the code for the xsplahs too ?
<mac_v> wallpaper*
<alefteris> just the background image/wallpaper, all I could find is a jpg image
<mac_v> alefteris: ah , right the system has only jpg... mat_t_ is the person you need to contact regarding this
<alefteris> ok thanks, hopefully he will see the ping from here :)
<kwwii> mac_v: send any suggestions to me, with and explanation and how it will work code-wise
<kwwii> sorry, just got back from the store
<mac_v> kwwii: ok .cool , i'll mail it to you....
<kwwii> thnx
<zniavre_> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/desktop+background+as+xsplash+%2B+gdm?content=114984
<coz_> troy_s,  hey guy
<troy_s> coz_: Greetings coz_.
<coz_> troy_s,  good to see you here
<troy_s> coz_: I don't really know why, but thanks. :)
<coz_> troy_s,   well conversations with you are always interesting
<coz_> of course silence is always nice too lol
<troy_s> coz_: Sorry... just checking the installation of my quad core.
<troy_s> coz_: I am making sure I got the thermal paste applied properly.
<troy_s> coz_: Don't want it to melt down with all the cores firing in Blender.
<coz_> troy_s,  use a credit card to smooth it evenly or a matchbook cover
<coz_> troy_s,  a think even layer is far more effective than gobs
<coz_> :)
<troy_s> coz_: I used to think that.  LOL.  Changed my mind.  The vendor actually suggests rolls of it along the heat pipes. Believe it or not, applying it that way gets a 1.5 degree lower temperature.
<coz_> troy_s,  that's interesting.... I think I would probably not do that but then I will have to wait for the quad core to arrive :)
<troy_s> coz_: There is a writeup on it somewhere. A review was given using the 'smooth even' and then the vendor contacted the reviewer and said that the application was incorrect.
<coz_> troy_s,  cool   ... will check it out if I get quad core
<coz_> troy_s,  are you building a system or just replacing cpu ?
<troy_s> coz_: Changed the CPU.
<coz_> troy_s,  what did you have before?
<troy_s> coz_: Dual core 3000+ class.
<coz_> troy_s,   ooo  so t his will boost everything for you
<troy_s> coz_: Yes. More importantly 45nm class.
<coz_> well I have company here so I am going to break for a bit....   troy_s   hope to talk with you later :)
<kwwii> hey troy_s, nice to see you around :)
<kwwii> how's things?
<kwwii> thanks for the sorts mill goudy, btw...I am still using it on my desktop and as window title font
<troy_s> kwwii: Sorry... missed the page.
<troy_s> kwwii: I don't know about how it works on the desktop, but it is a beautiful face really.
<troy_s> kwwii: How are things in the salt mine?
<troy_s> kwwii: bathroom brb
<troy_s> kwwii: Back.
<troy_s> kwwii: Getting ready for UDS I'd assume.
<kwwii> hehe, yeah, we have a design sprint the week before, so I am leaving on sunday
<kwwii> on the kde desktop it is really interesting
<kwwii> it is only in the one window on the actual desktop
<kwwii> which has neat browsing functionality, so it makes it really nice
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/kde-desktop-browse.png
<kwwii> not bad considering that the it is done per extended mouse over and not clicking
<troy_s> kwwii: Darnit... missed the text again. Catching up...
<kwwii> feels very smooth and moving to the scrollbar is not a problem at all, nicely done
<troy_s> kwwii: Hrm.
<troy_s> kwwii: Not really getting it. lol.
<troy_s> kwwii: Not smart here, so that doesn't help.
<kwwii> yeah, kinda hard to explain the feeling ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: Anything interesting perkulating in the saltmine?
<kwwii> troy_s: definitely, just can't talk about it yet...among others, the design team is meeting with the dx team next week
<troy_s> kwwii: I see the whole Ubuntu franchise is still having fundamental issues grasping a palette eh?
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: Status quo?
<kwwii> well, until now the design team has been busy taking over everything :p
<kwwii> we did all the CD packaging, t-shirts, stickers, presentation templates, and much, much more
<kwwii> everything is done in-house now on our team
<troy_s> kwwii: Who did the CD cover this time around?
<kwwii> include the mobile stuff...the open source stuff as well as the stuff for our partners like Dell, etc
<troy_s> kwwii: I'd think that the step away from the... unfortunate 'happy people looking at camera' can only be better in some people's minds. :)
<kwwii> afaik it was mainly the work of Markus Haslam, our new branding guy...he did a lot of work on a new logo (but I doubt that will see the light of day anytime soon). Among other amazing projects, he did the Oyster logo for the london underground
<troy_s> kwwii: Redoing the logo?
<kwwii> he worked with a photographer...bought a lot of hand-made paper and brought different "filters" and ideas of bending the paper while projecting light onto it
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, but again, that won't be happening anytime soon
<kwwii> it was his original contract at the company
<kwwii> now he is an employee
<troy_s> kwwii: Yes I spotted the texture on the wallpaper - is that the byproduct?
<kwwii> yepp
<troy_s> kwwii: The composition is still myopic as all hell but alas... baby steps I guess.
<kwwii> check the server CDs and the new website stuff
<kwwii> it is all over
<troy_s> kwwii: Link?
<kwwii> yeah, it is a good start I think
<troy_s> kwwii: I just don't get the unfortunate symmetry.  It just looks ridiculous.
<kwwii> http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud
<troy_s> kwwii: I'm sure that was from ... uh ... on high.
<kwwii> seems they didn't use the best of it :p
<troy_s> kwwii: lol.
<kwwii> the server CD cover is slick
<troy_s> kwwii: Link?
<kwwii> it has that wall panel from the link above, but used as a filter for white light onto paper
<kwwii> very nive
<kwwii> nice
<kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=server_cd_910.pdf
<troy_s> kwwii: What is with that 9.10?
<troy_s> kwwii: Lol.
<kwwii> erm, wrong link
<troy_s> kwwii: That is still some nasty typesetting I'd add too, but alas, just the opinion of some uninformed schmuck.
<kwwii> oh wow, they went with something different from what I last saw
<kwwii> that is sad
<troy_s> kwwii: I'd also add that if I weren't such a dork
<kwwii> trust me, it wasn't the guy who designed it's fault ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: Tell me that I'm not looking at the chromatic aberration on the 9.10?
<troy_s> kwwii: Yeah I know I know I know I know
<kwwii> the wallet is a bit better but not much
<troy_s> kwwii: It is the big issue with our culture - the roots of the dysfunction are systemic.
<kwwii> I could have taken better pics than that
<troy_s> kwwii: Much like why I often cite the Google StopDesign blog posting.
<troy_s> kwwii: I _really_ hate to say it, but it just feels like more of the same but different.  We can all only speculate why however. ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: Is that chromatic aberration?  It must be eh? As in they actually photographed that 9.10 on the texture and the diopter fell apart.
<troy_s> kwwii: Looks like mooky photography methinks.
<kwwii> I think they played with photoshop too much and blew the curves
<troy_s> kwwii: (and yes, might be way way way off base on that.)
<troy_s> kwwii: Look at the white on the 9.10
<troy_s> kwwii: It's toward the edge of the frame probably and if I didn't know better, I'd bet that is a diopter shot.  Bleeds ratpiss yellowy green on the lefts and bluey on the right.
<kwwii> either they made it green with photoshop just to include *something* different or that is pure chroma noise...I bet from that alone you could figure out which camera was used
<kwwii> oh well, time for sleep
<troy_s> kwwii: Probably not camera, but I'd bet on diopter.
<troy_s> kwwii: Night.
<kwwii> yeah
<troy_s> Greetings coz_
<coz_> troy_s,  hey guy
<troy_s> ckontros: You can't possibly just be lurking...
<coz_> troy_s,  system up and running
<coz_> ?
<troy_s> coz_: Yes... seems to be stable since I popped in here.
<coz_> cool
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy
<darkmatter> heya coz_
<darkmatter> coz_: read this... it's mind boggling http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49304156,00.htm
<coz_> yikes :)
<darkmatter> lol 'why are women' googles top two suggestions 'crazy' and 'stupid' lol
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-11-07
<andreasn> the top suggestion for 'why are men' is 'pigs'
<andreasn> I would like to have answers for 'why is the Internet always so angry'
<thorwil> "what it about" - a new low for the ubuntu-art list
<kwwii> he is probably the worlds best artist who just can't communicate properly
<ckontros> :P
 * thorwil imagines a poster with the slogan: ubuntu - it about humans
<undurundur> About humans?
 * ckontros imagines thorwil's poster all zombie-fy'd. :P
<thorwil> brains!
 * ckontros goes to watch "Shaun Of The Dead:. :D
<undurundur> Ubuntu = human
<thorwil> mac_v: simple click for paging works now, among a few cursor/cosmetic changes: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/dynamic_scrollbar/download/head%3A/dynamic_scrollbar.py-20080816162703-x7ucp0vpno3hwmdb-1/dynamic_scrollbar.py
<thorwil> bbiab
<mac_v> thorwil_: hey , cool works great , i like the new arrows to show the direction... looks good ,
<mac_v> thorwil_:  the right click works too ;p
<mac_v> thorwil: could you add a delay after the first page scroll? that way the user might not accidentally scroll several pages
<mac_v> it would also make it easier to hold the click to allow drag
<mac_v> thorwil: hmm , i think i found a bug , when the page reaches the end , the down arrow is still displayed , while when the page is at the top , the up arrow does not exist , is this intentional , or a bug?
<thorwil> mac_v: you mean when dragging?
<mac_v> thorwil: yeah , the first click ,  the pages srtart scrolling , if you add a delay , before the page scrolls again , that way the user will have time to hold the scrollbar and start dragging the direction they want
<mac_v> starts*
<mac_v> thorwil: in right-click the labels 'start' & 'end' can be either ==> 'Top' & 'Bottom'  /   'Home' & 'end'
<thorwil> there is a delay already. i'll try making it a bit longer
<mac_v> oh , ok  , I didnt check the code , I'll try that too ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: 'start' might be misread as user can are start some action
<thorwil> mac_v: regarding the cursor, there is a bug if the pointer passes the top or bottom edge before the indicator reaches start or end. though not a bug in my code ... ;)
<mac_v> ;)
<thorwil> mac_v: top/bottom or home/end don't seem any clearer to me
<mac_v> thorwil: 'Home' is what we use in the keyboard
<thorwil> top/bottom might refer to the window edges or stacking. home would be a disaster for a web browser ;)
<thorwil> mac_v: US keyboard?
<mac_v> yeah
<mac_v> thorwil: how about using 'Page top' and 'Page end' ?
<thorwil> mac_v: unlikely to be misunderstood, but repeating words in a menu slows recognition down
<mac_v> thorwil: yeah , exactly why i dint suggest in the first place ;p
<thorwil> "beginning" might be an option
<mac_v> too long
<mac_v> thorwil: what is the name of the key in your keyboard?
<thorwil> it's long but it has no other meanings like start and home
<thorwil> mac_v: Pos 1. for Position 1
<mac_v> thorwil: hmm , then i think you need to keep the label to depend on the keyboard layout
<mac_v> that way it will stay similar and easier for the user
<thorwil> mac_v: Home remains ungood in a browser scenario
<mac_v> thorwil: but thats what is used in the keyboard , so why change it?
<thorwil> because it doesn't strictly imply start/begining of a page
<mac_v> thorwil: thats why i mentioned 'page top' and 'page end'
<mac_v> thorwil: if you use ,'beginning'  , you might need to use 'ending' ? ;p
<mac_v> thorwil: anyway , thats something for discussion for later  , you need not worry/be bothered about it now :)
<thorwil> taking horizontal scrolling into account, Top and Bottom might actually be the right choice for matching Left/Right
<mac_v> yeah
<mac_v> thorwil: delay of 300ms , seems good
<mac_v> adorable ;p <No rights reserved, feel free to do whatever you want with this code, but it would be nice if you give me credit.# Thorsten Wilms 2009-11-06>
<zniavre> hello
<ckontros> yo
<zniavre> there is a way to integrate dynamic scrollbar to a gtk window ?
<zniavre> i would want to try it "in real"
<mac_v> zniavre: you can run the py , it works in kinda in-real
<ckontros> Yup. Just run the .py file. It *is* the demo. :)
<thorwil> zniavre: writing the python code is already enough of a challenge for me. C in the middle of GTK+ would be too much ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: make sure to show it to cody russell in UDS , he is atm doing stuff in gtk
<mac_v>  or nick > bratsche    ;)
<thorwil> ok, changed the delay to 250. fixed wrong cursor after context-menu: Bottom
<thorwil> hrmpf, i knew my snippet from Ask_Mark would lead to a few useless comments. still felt the info should be shared :}
<ckontros> I was gonna say. Man, we've turned into a jaded bunch. :P
<zniavre_> mac_v,  yes i already tried the .py
<zniavre_> thorwil_,  i hope you can get some help to do it  (not from me )
<zniavre_> the concept is good and "new"  (i mean it's not in another OS yet)
<thorwil> zniavre_: well, thanks :)
<mac_v> oops! what did i do > Bug #477686 , i assigned this bug to human-gtk-theme.. iirc the name is different
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477686 in hundredpapercuts "too low contrast in checkboxes of update manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477686
 * thorwil wonders what's up with his connection today
<mac_v> ah got it! , damn hyphens argh :/
<mac_v> http://gizmodo.com/5395720/ask-the-artist-how-windows-7s-iconic-home-screen-evolved
<thorwil_> mac_v: now we just someone to copy that style with the CoC. not :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-11-08
<JuaN78> #linux
<thorwil> 0.0 http://www.flickr.com/photos/evil_m0nkey/3734194743/sizes/l/in/pool-556923@N24/
<ckontros> Beautiful.
<mac_v> lmao > quote "Steve Jobs, goes the old joke at Apple, is surrounded by a reality distortion field; get too close and you believe what he's saying."
<mac_v> from > http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/11/03/brit-blog-names-iphone-worlds-worst/
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-11-08
<thorwil> *yawn*
<coz_> hey guys..I have several ideas for the unity/compiz release of 11.04..who would I talk to about this?
<coz_> icon rather ^^
<thorwil> coz_: idea/unity/compiz/icon?
<thorwil> coz_: from the canonical design team, you could talk to ivanka (design in general) or chaotic (graphic design). london business hours either case. well, or email :)
<coz_> thorwil,  cool thanks
<coz_> does anyone have an email for either ivanka or  chaotic?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-11-09
<coz_> does anyone have contact information for either ivanka or chaotic?
<leoquant> coz_, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork?
<coz_> leoquant,   ok I will check it out  ,, thanks :)
<leoquant> : https://edge.launchpad.net/~ivanka
<leoquant> search option via launchpad
<coz_> ah
<leoquant> ã
<coz_> ivanka,   I do most of the graphics for compiz  and am on the cairo -dock team ,, I have an idea for the compiz/ubnity logo -icon  ,,, where can I submit it?
<ivanka> coz_ Good morning, I suggest emailing it to the artwork mailing list. Let's have a look and then help you direct it further
<coz_> ivanka,    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/compiz-unity.tar.gz
<coz_> ivanka,  its a quick idea for the logo   ...certainly not final
<ivanka> hey coz_ am in a meeting now so can't look at the link - send it to the mailing list and then we can all look at it together and it won't get lost in my IRC logs :-)
<coz_> ivanka,  ok sounds like a plan ,, thanks :)
<ivanka> coz_ np
 * thorwil wonders what iainfarrell does with the invigorate blueprint
<iainfarrell> thorwil: need not worry, things are happening but I'm up to my neck getting all our outputs from UDS arranged
<iainfarrell> actually though
<iainfarrell> now I'm here
<iainfarrell> is doctormo about?
<doctormo> iainfarrell: he is
<iainfarrell> splendid, hello chap, you mentioned some research you'd done
<iainfarrell> and we were going to get that together before we created a new questionnaire
<iainfarrell> Ivanka's back in the office at the end of the week
<thorwil> iainfarrell: heh, just puzzled me you would go to the length of editing, just to remove the majik! ;)
<iainfarrell> but we could have this ready to start looking at
<doctormo> Ah yes the community-team poll
<iainfarrell> ahh yeah
<iainfarrell> her username was wrong
<doctormo> iainfarrell: There was a rumour that some people in the design team were leaving.
<iainfarrell> what?!
<iainfarrell> nope
<thorwil> i hope i can put some time aside to further develop my thoughts on this. i'm wondering if tiddlywiki or a docbook document in a bzr branch would be a good approach for conception and requirements
<iainfarrell> Or at least, I don't know yet :)
<iainfarrell> tiddlywiki is a difficult one from a versioning POV
<iainfarrell> and it's still a wiki :)
<doctormo> thorwil: There is a few requirements from the ux team too, they want similr things.
<thorwil> doctormo: i was under the impression that quite  a number of people did leave, so maybe that rumour is based on that and just comes late?
<doctormo> *shrug* best not to speculate.
<iainfarrell> guys, I have to leave a bit early
<iainfarrell> but catch you tomorrow :)
<thorwil> iainfarrell: i assumed tiddlywiki would be close enough to plain text to work in versioning, but havn't looked into it, yet
<thorwil> iainfarrell: have a nice evening!
<iainfarrell> thorwil: isn't the issue that only one person can really edit at once
<iainfarrell> on a single area
<iainfarrell> and wiki markup can be hard for people
<doctormo> bye iainfarrell
<thorwil> iainfarrell: all reasons i don't wan to use *the* wiki. tiddlywiki is an "offline" in-file wiki
<thorwil> doctormo: could you expand on "requirements from the ux team"?
<doctormo> thorwil: website to post mockups, design dicussions etc.
<thorwil> doctormo: ah, ok. i though you referred to the how of documenting the design of the site itself
<doctormo> no, just that there is a need there.
<doctormo> I need to fill more out
<doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityReview/Sep2010/Art
<doctormo> The data is on my hdd somewhere
 * thorwil subscribes to the wiki page
<coz_> mm I think I may be far to  "protective" of my work... maybe too much so I cant work within a team :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-11-10
<duanedesign> d'oh, I just realized Bruno Maag was at UDS-N and I didnt get to meet him :\
<duanedesign> as a graphic designer i must say that would of been awesome
<ivanka> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> hi ivanka
<ivanka> thorwil: I was going to ask you where to file a bug but I found it! Please ignore my interruption :-)
<thorwil> ivanka: no worries. still curious what project
<ivanka> thorwil: https://bugs.launchpad.net/buttons/+bug/673488
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673488 in buttons "screenshots.ubuntu.com needs styling (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Medium,New]
<thorwil> interesting
<thorwil> ivanka: why co-branding, if the entire point of that site are ubuntu-specific screenshots?
<ivanka> thorwil: well, there seemed to be some debian packages too which weren't ubuntu specific
<ivanka> thorwil: can I take it from your question that this is an acceptable way to put out a piece of work?
<ivanka> :-)
<thorwil> ivanka: well, it needs to hit the mailing list or at least team subscribers
<ivanka> thorwil: I was going to send it to the artwork list and then we can agree how to subscribe people?
<thorwil> ivanka: manual mail to the list and asking people to subscribe to the report if interested might be a good policy
<ivanka> thorwil: cool. One more question - if you go to that project, can you see the other bug I put in there?
<thorwil> ivanka: do you mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/buttons/+bug/673494 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673494 in buttons "Screenshots campaign (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
<ivanka> thorwil: yes - perfect
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-11-11
<venilsurya> Why is Inkscape so slow?
<venilsurya> Is there a workaround?
<Schendje> venilsurya: do you mean starting it?
<Schendje> or general work?
<Schendje> with multiple filters it can become slow quite quickly
<venilsurya> While working
<venilsurya> Schendje: Yes, exactly
<venilsurya> How do I avoid that?
<Schendje> venilsurya: you can do view -> display mode -> no filters
<venilsurya> oh ok
<Schendje> more of a workaround than a solution, really
<venilsurya> Well, a workaround is good enough :)
<Schendje> yeah then that should work :)
<venilsurya> Cool - I can actually see what I'm doing now, instead of moving the mouse and waiting for the software to catch up. Thanks, Schendje!
<Schendje> venilsurya: you're welcome
<venilsurya> How do I draw something in Ktoon?
<venilsurya> I can't see any tools?
<coz_> venilsurya,  mm I believe  you have to  FIle  new  first
<venilsurya> Hmmm...It crashed!
<venilsurya> It works now
<venilsurya> Though, isn't there a GUI for the brushes, fill, etc?
<j_baer> Hello:  Ivanka or Iain -  are you available?
<vish> thorwil: finally, looks who is here ;)
<vish> j_baer: hey
<vish> look*
<j_baer> Hey vish  :-)
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> hi j_baer, hi vish
<j_baer> Hey Thorwil -:)
<thorwil> just when i started to think about how this could be a chance to clear up things
<thorwil> ah, theme switch at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/
<thorwil> that header has to be confusing
<j_baer> Hey DoctorMo - are you available?
<doctormo> j_baer: How can I help?
<j_baer> I have a note from UDS about design a questionnaire. Was this in reference to the web presence project?
<j_baer> doctormo - I have an interruption, I'll catch up later. :/
 * thorwil wonders if someone doesn't know the wonders of idling, presence without presence
 * vish wonders what to make of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork :s
<vish> how do those smilies even make sense?
<vish> thorwil: did you know about the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Tasks cleanup?
<thorwil> vish: John said they are menat as placeholders
<thorwil> meant, even
<vish> :s
<vish> luckily the wiki have history..
<vish> wikia even, since a lot of the pages seem to have changed..
<thorwil> vish: i saw the change notifications, but didn't pay much attention
<vish> doesnt seem very wise to remove the 'old' content in the tasks page when the info there is still in use..
<thorwil> it was inuse?
<vish> well, the last 2 in the artwork tasks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Tasks?action=recall&rev=8 , and the wiki tasks
<vish> the rest are ghost tasks, which can/might be revived..
<vish> why are the fonts so small in the wiki :/
<thorwil> be happy that it's not light gray on white to be even more web-designey ;>
<vish> heh
<Schendje> thorwil: did you mean me with the idling?
<thorwil> Schendje: no
<Schendje> thorwil: ok :)
<zniavre> good evening
<woutervddn> for some reason, opera webbrowser can't open the wiki..
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-11-12
<troy_s> vish: ping.
<venilsurya> My graphic turns transparent when I apply filters in Inkscape. Is there a way to avoid this?
<doctormo> venilsurya: How powerful is your computer?
<venilsurya> Core Duo processor and 3gb ram
<doctormo> venilsurya: You should be good to go, problems do crop up and you should certainly report the bug to the inkscape bug system in launchpad
<doctormo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape
<doctormo> Make sure to post screenshots
<venilsurya> No, I think I'm doing something wrong
<venilsurya> I'll post screenshots on ubuntu forums and link it here
<venilsurya> doctormo: Can you tell me the site where we have to post our artwork?
<venilsurya> I want to post the stuff here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ilavenil
<doctormo> venilsurya: http://art.ubuntu-owl.org ?
<thorwil> ivanka: hi! https://bugs.launchpad.net/buttons/+bug/673488 fix-released??
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673488 in buttons "screenshots.ubuntu.com needs styling (affects: 3) (heat: 30)" [Medium,Fix released]
<ivanka> thorwil: er dunno
<thorwil> i actually wanted to ask if https://bugs.launchpad.net/buttons could be the answer to the "Possible tasks" mail on ubuntu-art
<ivanka> thorwil: I will investigate as soon as I get off this call!
<thorwil> cool, no worries :)
<j_baer> Hey doctormo - are you available?
<doctormo> How can I help you?
<j_baer> At UDS their was a discussion about a survey. What was that in reference to?
<doctormo> j_baer: You mean the community review?
<j_baer> One moment, I will bring up the blue print ...
<j_baer> Sorry, it took a moment to find it. It's under "Reinvigorate Ubuntu Artwork Team" from UDS and Ivanka noted "design a questionaire"  as a todo.
<j_baer> The URL is ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-reinvigorate-artwork-team )
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-11-13
<j_baer> Doctormo ?
<vish> hrm! artwork ML has its own fredrik!
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> vish: that's not fair
<vish> :p
<thorwil> vish: argh, John mailed to libreoffice-marketing, "representing" the artwork team, basically offering our services as a unit
<vish> exactly why i remarked..! ;)
<thorwil> but of course! vish is already there
<vish> thorwil: nah, not subscribed there, but it was brought to my attention..
<thorwil> vish: i will answer that mail to say that it will make more sense for libreoffice to manage design tasks themselves
<vish> thorwil: any news on the brainstorm site?
<thorwil> vish: you saw the post on the planet, about the brainstorm site receiving some scheduled attention?
<vish> thorwil: oh? i must have missed it.. :(
<thorwil> vish: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/11/03/weathering-the-ubuntu-brainstorm/
<thorwil> vish: it seemed like there would be nothing stopping the logo update anymore, but it still didn't happen, so far
<vish> thorwil: yea i saw this one, but that does not mention anything about the site being updated, but rather about the ideas getting attention..
<vish> thorwil: right, i dint want to mention about chaotic/marcus in the reply.. maybe one of them should reply to the list..
<thorwil> vish: when i talked with Iain at uds, he said he thought UB might be about to be phased out, but that blog post cleared that up
<vish> cool.. maybe we should use UB more for ayatana.. and then it would get phased out ;)
<thorwil> heh
<vish> thorwil: what are the different statuses for the task wiki page?
<thorwil> vish: hmm? ask John, i guess?
<vish> hmm..
 * thorwil puts vish in BCC
<vish> not even sure what john was/is thinking â¦ how can we offer services when we arent even active :s
<vish> and can manage/complete our own tasks..
<vish> cant*
<thorwil> yeah
<thorwil> lovely. the wiki css will need some love. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Tasks?action=diff&rev1=15&rev2=16
<thorwil> Deletions are marked like this.  	Additions are marked like this.
<thorwil> not to forget: text is marked like this
<vish> lol!!!
<vish> argh and there seems no way to indent lines twice, or atleast it has changed with the new wiki
<vish> hrm! and no italics?!!?
<tourach> hey everyone
<tourach> I'm working on some concept art, just enquiring on where to upload to for people to have a look.  Please excuse if im typing in the wrong place, never used IRC before.
<coz_> tourach,  this is for ubuntu this concept art?
<tourach> hi coz_, yes it is.
<tourach> its not finished, but just thought I'd get an opinion on style, before finishing it
<coz_> tourach,  ah so you want someone here to look at it?
<tourach> if that's ok.
<tourach> I've never tried to submit anything before
<tourach> so didn't want to look like a fool, posting in the wrong place
<coz_> tourach,  well if you just want someone here to look at it you can upload the image to picpaste.com and then link it here
<coz_> tourach,  if you want to submit artwork  ,mm let me check for the link
<tourach> thank you, that's great.
<tourach> coz_, the link is http://picpaste.com/raw_levels-6hS4RVjG.png
<coz_> tourach,   check this link ... there is a link to the mailing list  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork?action=show&redirect=ArtworkTeam
<coz_> tourach,  interesting work :)... also remember that natty narwhol is a narwhol :)
<tourach> coz_, thanks coz.   So no penguin?
<coz_> tourach,  well  ... that  is entirely up to you...but if you want your work to be considered for the next version... a penquin is generally just the general linux   image
<coz_> tourach,  although   an image like that might also be considered for  Edubuntu
<tourach> coz_, awesome.  I will finish it then.  Thanks very much.  Am I ok to paste a finished link in here when it's done?
<coz_> tourach,   well I would join their mailing list  and also ask in #edubuntu  channel  how to submit work
<coz_> tourach,   I havent submitted work for many years so I forget :)
<tourach> thanks very much.  Hope I havn't noobed out too much.
<tourach> all the best.
<j_baer> tourach, I am late to this thread. What do you want to do?
<coz_> tourach,  not at all..also you might want to join the ubuntu community art team
<tourach> thanks.
<coz_> j_baer,  he wants to submit some artwork
<tourach> I will paste the unfinished link again
<tourach> http://picpaste.com/raw_levels-6hS4RVjG.png
<j_baer> tourach, very nice. Was this done in GIMP?
<j_baer> My vision is most of the  default artwork for default wallpaper will flow threw the Artwork Team via the mailing list.
<tourach> the colour correction was using gimp and gnome-color, but most of it was done using MyPaint
<coz_> tourach,  ah mypaint...congratulations... a worthwhile application :)
<tourach> awesome,  I just thought that a painting might be quite cool.  As I say its far from finished.
<coz_> tourach,  welll my paint is probably the best natural media application for linux...even competes somwhat with Corel Painter
<tourach> coz_, yeah, I prefer it for mimicking real paint over GIMP.
<j_baer> tourach, check out the wiki ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork ) and join the list. We can certainly use your talents.
<j_baer> I expect wallpaper requests to start showing up shortly.
<tourach> thanks very much, more than anything I will look for suggestions.
<tourach> anyway, I'm gonna shoot.  sunday dinner and all.
<tourach> all the best everyone, thanks for your help.
<coz_> tourach,  ok dont forget to come to this channel often :)
<tourach> will do.
<tourach> bye bye
<j_baer> Best regards ..
<vish> j_baer: hey again, you can just idle here ... i think thorwil wanted to mention something and *poof* you were gone ;) .. sometimes people wont be at the computer but will just leave the irc chat client idle
<vish> j_baer: i dont understand the columns in the tasks wiki? what are the statuses
<vish> ?
<vish> j_baer: when does a task get assigned?
<j_baer> Sorry, it seems as soon I open this window up something happens.
<j_baer> My vision is we receive a request from the community to do something. The team via the mailing list discusses the request, the some agreed to accept it.
<j_baer> The next step is to create a spec.
<j_baer> Hold on, I have my first interruption - be right back.
<vish> j_baer: k, so then we need a set of statuses for each of those steps.. first we'd need to know what are all the steps you have in mind.
<vish> j_baer: also, are you planning on working on the LibO icons or designs?
<j_baer> vish - I have exit but I will catch up later. :(  I just posted to LibO list late last night and I haven't had a chance to review my email today. I will post something to the list as a step by step.
<vish> j_baer: cool, as for your question yesterday about the survey.. it is to identify the need for a team and how the response will be from the team
<vish> j_baer: k.. bye..
<j_baer> Cool - bye.
<thorwil> :}
<vish> [21:15] <j_baer> My vision is most of the  default artwork for default wallpaper will flow threw the Artwork Team via the mailing list.
<vish> thorwil: not sure how/if that would happen^
<thorwil> vish: the team is full of people who have at least as much skill and time to spend on it and are in a similarly good position regarding the communication streams to decision makers as chaotic. so it should be no problem to realize that vision and i'm puzzled why it didn't happen yet!
<vish> lol!
<dn_desaku> you would think this channel would be more active
<coz_> dn_desaku,  I have often said that :)
<dn_desaku> coz_ so are you working on anything interesting?
<coz_> dn_desaku,  no really... I have already submitted suggestions for compiz/unitly logo
<dn_desaku> may I see?
<coz_> ah hold on
<coz_> dn_desaku, one version   http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/compiz-unity/cu3.svg
<dn_desaku> well, I can say that I like cu3 better than cu2
<dn_desaku> :)
<coz_> dn_desaku,  have you tried compiz/unity?
<dn_desaku> compiz yes, but unity no
<coz_> dn_desaku,  ah ok  ,, compiz/unity is the next version .04
<coz_> I heard it is not working at the moment
<dn_desaku> ah, I'm very lazy about looking into these things. I don't configure compositing beyond setting effects to the highest option
<coz_> dn_desaku,  oh ok so you didnt get into  compizconfig-settings-manager then
<dn_desaku>  nope
<coz_> dn_desaku,  much can be done with ccsm ...if you want to test a few things you can meet me in #compiz
<dn_desaku> oh nvm, I lied. I do have it on XD
<coz_> oh ok :)
<dn_desaku> I remember when I changed the friction of the wobbly windows to near zero
<dn_desaku> it was so broken XD
<coz_> dn_desaku,  yes you dont want to do that again :)
<coz_> although set correctly,,, you can "toss" windows off the screenw ith that
<coz_> screen
<dn_desaku> yeah, I was being distracted from writing this code I was on so I decided to screw around with compiz
<dn_desaku> I set friction to near 0
<dn_desaku> and tossed vim of the monitor
<coz_> :)
<dn_desaku> I was thinking "dammmmmit"
<dn_desaku> well, I tossed it but it kept on jiggling and I couldn't touch it :(
<dn_desaku> I was so sad
<coz_> I also want to add that that logo was improved by Cepren although I cant spell that with this keyboard since it's russian :)
<dn_desaku> here was the last thing I drew: http://davidnuon.deviantart.com/art/Swifty-185865115
<coz_> ah  humming bird :)
<dn_desaku> yeah
<dn_desaku> then I thought
<coz_> dn_desaku,   inkscape?
<dn_desaku> Illustrator
<coz_> dn_desaku,  ah ok ,, have you tried inkscape?
<dn_desaku> yeah
<dn_desaku> I use GIMP and Inkscape when I'm running Ubuntu
<dn_desaku> Adobe CS while on Windows
<coz_> ah good
<coz_> dn_desaku,  you may be interested in a few other applications on linux   Pencil   mypaint  and Pinta
<dn_desaku> I tried Pencil, I liked it
<coz_> dn_desaku,  not a bad substitute for Flash  but has a long way to go
<dn_desaku> I never used Pencil like flash
<dn_desaku> I used Pencil because it was like doing paper animation in real life
<dn_desaku> that's why I liked it
<dn_desaku> but then I found PAP
<coz_> dn_desaku,  ah I see,, it does flash animations as well :)
<dn_desaku> so I got that
<coz_> PAP ?
<dn_desaku> Plastic Animation Paper
<coz_> for linux?
<dn_desaku> Windows
<coz_> oh its for linux as well
<coz_> http://plasticanimationpaper.dk/download3.asp
<coz_> whoa costs are way too high
<dn_desaku> what, I remember it costing less
<dn_desaku> way less
<dn_desaku> oh yeah, when PAP wasn't free, I did all my animation in Photoshop XD
<coz_> ooo that uses an outdatd libstcd+= library
<coz_> outdated
<dn_desaku> pap?
<coz_> yes
<coz_> trying to fix it here
<dn_desaku> yeah, the devs stopped working on it
<coz_> doesnt work well
<dn_desaku> coz_, so what kind of artist are you?
<coz_> dn_desaku,  mypaint is a natureal media  application if that interests you
<coz_> dn_desaku,  well... I am a painter and sculptor  by training  but on linux I do all of the graphics for compiz  ,, some for cairo dock and hopefully some for compiz-unity
<dn_desaku> coz_, ah, I'm just an illustrator and graphic designer :)
<coz_> dn_desaku,  "just"  ??
<coz_> dn_desaku,  nothing just about illustration or graphic design :)
<dn_desaku> haha
<coz_> dn_desaku,  all of the arts take the same concentration and creative enery to work in  so none of it is lesser or greater
<dn_desaku> 'just',  as in what I focus on :P
<coz_> dn_desaku,  the final composition is the thing that counts
<coz_> dn_desaku,  ah understood
<dn_desaku> coz_, my any chance do you use a wacom tablet on ubuntu?
<coz_> dn_desaku,  i do yes  I have a wacom intuos3 9x12
<dn_desaku> do you have one monitor or two?
<coz_> 2
<coz_> 9x12 would be painful on one monitor :)
<dn_desaku> XD
<dn_desaku> how would I constrain the tablet cursor to one monitor?
<coz_> I have a smalle wacom I could use but I find it too sensitive
<coz_> dn_desaku,  mmm
<coz_> dn_desaku,  why would you want that?
<coz_> dn_desaku,  you would probably have to set up wacom to use only the primary monitor
<coz_> dn_desaku,  what size tablet is it?
<dn_desaku> I don't know the size, it's the smaller early bamboo
<dn_desaku> let me check
<dn_desaku> 5.8* 3.7
<dn_desaku> in inches
<coz_> dn_desaku,  and you have dual monitors?
<dn_desaku> yes
<coz_> dn_desaku,  ooo that table would be all over the place
<coz_> tablet
<coz_> dn_desaku,  its too sensitive for both monitors yes?  small movement on table  ...big movement on dual screens
<coz_> tablet
<dn_desaku> yeah XD
<coz_> yeah same issue with same size table if I connected it ....mmmm
<coz_> let me check something
<dn_desaku> I think you're supposed to edit an x config file but I don't know which one T_T
<coz_> dn_desaku,  well you might have to write to the xorg.conf but hold on I am checking
<coz_> dn_desaku,   you might be interested in this which I found   while searching for settings ,,,I have no idea if it works   http://gtk-apps.org/content/show.php/Wacom+Control+Panel?content=104309
<dn_desaku> oo thanks
<coz_> dn_desaku,  I am going to test that utility now so hold on
<coz_> dn_desaku,  well it installed and seems to work ,, but wont know for sure until i restart
<coz_> dn_desaku,  i am not finding much on calibrating the tablet for use on primary monitor... and I cant think of a good channel to go to for that ,,,, unless ##linux might know
<dn_desaku> I found this: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jaunty/man4/wacom.4x.html
<dn_desaku> and I think I'm going to screw around with that for a bit
<coz_> ok let me know if you get it to work  properly ,, it would come in handy later :)
<dn_desaku> here we go: Option "ScreenNo" "n"
<coz_> cool
<dn_desaku> oh god, I don't see any wacom config in xorg.conf. I'll have to write it myself :\
<dn_desaku> oh well
<coz_> dn_desaku,  ooo yeah that has been changed
<dn_desaku> damn, my laziness is not rewarded XD
<coz_> sorry about that
<dn_desaku> well, now I know what to do now
<coz_> dn_desaku,  ok cool
<dn_desaku> thanks for the help :)
<coz_> no problem  let me know if all works out well :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-11-14
<tourach> hey everyone
<tourach> does anyone know the URL for the paste-image website?
<coz_> good day all
<coz_> anyone have an opinion about this image?  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/ubuntu-ripples1.png
<zniavre_> good evening
<zniavre_> with metacity if i want rounded corner, can i set the level of roundness ?
<zniavre_> eg: if i set rounded corner to true it look as roundness =8 with murrine engine , i would want to set something close to roundness = 4
<thorwil> hi troy_s. your http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2010/01/specs-and-contests-we-all-lose.html spared me a lot of typing and some people in the libreoffice project agree. however, a contest for the logo is not off the table
<troy_s> thorwil: Well that's too bad. I did a follow up as some seemed to mistake it for being a 'money money money' issue, which it isn't.
<troy_s> thorwil: How are you by the way?
<thorwil> troy_s: fine. might have a job as "product designer" for an open-source project in my hand soon. name to be disclosed if it works out ;)
<thorwil> troy_s: and you?
<troy_s> thorwil: Well that's good to hear. I fear that people really don't fundamentally grasp the problem with the whole contest thing. Sad really. I hope that with a little more folks speaking up that it makes more sense.
<troy_s> thorwil: I've had a good number of folks email me on the points. It isn't how our culture has been run with regards to code and it isn't how it should be run with regards to art and design.
<thorwil> troy_s: well, people see the results of contests and the appearance tends to be that it works. problem is that you don't see what could have been instead
<troy_s> thorwil: Actually, that is a case of a culture that can't see.
<troy_s> thorwil: I don't believe there exists a single worthy piece out of a contest.
<troy_s> thorwil: And even if I am just blind, other folks that are way more talented and trained would likely harness the dice toss. They don't.
<thorwil> meanwhile, i allowed the preliminary libreoffice logo to bother me enough to get into what is actually spec-work, too
<thorwil> troy_s: i was at the uds in orlando. a session on "reinvigorating" the artwork team led to discussions on whether the team should be renamed from artwork to design, how that relates to the ayatana list ...
<thorwil> troy_s: and on to the idea of some kind of design management website
<thorwil> for tracking requests and ideas, doing work starting from briefs. managing assets
<troy_s> thorwil: I don't know if the tools matter at all.
<thorwil> troy_s: the idea is to have a tool that helps to nudge things into the desired direction
<thorwil> one aspect of it could be though of as training wheels
<troy_s> thorwil: Might work. Hard to say. I think as long as people actually think that contests and 'we pick the winner' works, it's nothing more than repeatedly oopsieing.
<troy_s> thorwil: You have what appears to be some dedicated folks on the mailing list. I wonder if it is possible to lead by example.
<troy_s> thorwil: Mocks and pencil drawings only work so far as the audience reading them. Maybe a pixel perfect presentation in animated form might be more compelling? I believe that sort of presentation tends to be more compelling for the minds that have the ability to craft it from code.
<thorwil> troy_s: such a website would be about leading by example on grand scale
<troy_s> thorwil: We don't need macro. We need micro. lol.
<troy_s> thorwil: It is like making the case "What we really need is a mailing list where we can collaborate."
<thorwil> troy_s: i have been thinking about comics and animations to present such concepts to the community. but it's quite a way to even get to the point where i would have enough to even create such a thing
<troy_s> thorwil: Yes. Which is why I think micro might be the only solution. Form a micro design team.
<troy_s> thorwil: The tools to communicate are all there and are in fact superior to the proprietary tools currently in use.
<troy_s> thorwil: I'd love to see what the dedicated folks on the list (which it seems would be all that are left at this point) could create in a sort of skunkworks scenario.
<troy_s> afk for a few.
<troy_s> back.
<thorwil> troy_s: heh, just when i'm about to leave :)
<troy_s> thorwil: Next time I guess.
<thorwil> troy_s: i'm playing with the concept of turning an origami swallow into a libreoffice logo
<thorwil> http://www.foopics.com/showfull/5daf8a1cc703a9158615fbd68ace4c5b
<thorwil> troy_s: got any quick thoughts on that?
<troy_s> thorwil: Hold on... looking.
<troy_s> thorwil: What's your thinking
<thorwil> troy_s: office -> paper -> origami. origami: precision, elegance, sophistication
<thorwil> troy_s: swallow: happens to be one of the more attractive origami models. swallows are masters in their element. swarm animals -> community
<troy_s> thorwil: Well it will all suck if everyone is talking icons.
<troy_s> thorwil: Certainly works as a splash photo or something
<troy_s> thorwil: And really, if the folks in the 'design' thinktank think it is a good idea to use icons for anything in today's day and age I'd question their thinking on the whole.
<troy_s> thorwil: As a photo for a splash, I'd think the origami could work pretty well.
<thorwil> hmm, i guess an icon could still get swallow across, no origami
<thorwil> troy_s: thanks, good night! :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-11-13
<Hangdom> hello
<Hangdom> greetings everybody
<Hangdom> anyone there? i have a question about the flickr-pools for wallpapers
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-11-10
<Kamakwazee_> Hello. I was just wondering how I submit artwork.
<Kamakwazee_> Is anyone there?
<pablord> Hey guys, can u tell me where can I get the official Ubuntu 'release' logos? I mean the specific logo of Precise Pangolin, Quantal Quetzal.. etc. I found some ones in spreadubuntu.org but these aren't official and some has non-commercial use license..
