#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-19
<slomo> ajmitch: would you mind when i upload a f-spot rebuild? gphoto2 is finally fixed ;)
<tseng> ajmitch: GO GO GO
<ajmitch> it shouldn't need it
<ajmitch> a give-back should be enough
<slomo> ok, then order a give-back :)
<ajmitch> lamont: can you arrange that?
<lamont> ajmitch: already given back
<ajmitch> ok, thanks
<lamont> not quite 2 hours ago. :-)
<ajmitch> so it FTBFS for other reasons, will check it out :)
<slomo> builds here
<ajmitch> latest build log still has the libgphoto2-2 install issue
<ajmitch> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/f/f-spot/0.1.2-0ubuntu1/f-spot_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_20050913-2201-powerpc-failed.gz
<slomo> i can only say that it works here in an updated pbuilder ;)
<ajmitch> yeah, it's trying with the older package
<lamont> slomo: nah - I just gave it back too soon
<lamont> given-back again
<ajmitch> thanks
<\sh> argl...cyphesis-cpp is completly b0rked
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> bddebian: good to see u
<\sh> argl...cyphesis-cpp is completly b0rked
<\sh> bddebian: the python2.4 patch was easy ;)
<bddebian> Nice, you DA MAN :-)
<\sh> bddebian: no..it has g++3.4/4.0 issues which is not solvable so easy...and new upstream is even more borked
<bddebian> Ohh..
<slomo> \sh: that was something i could tell you too ;)
<\sh> bddebian: and new upstream has python2.4 in it...but all this crappy c++ code inside is a mess...as all of the worldforge stuff
<slomo> \sh: i tried fixing this thing almost a day
<bddebian> Eeks
<\sh> slomo: argl...and I'm compiling me the hell out of my ass,)
<\sh> slomo: solution? forget about it and morgue it? ,-)
<slomo> probably... but elmo doesn't want to delete stuff lately it seems :P i and bddebian said him to delete some stuff ;)
<bddebian> Uhm, did I get in trouble again?
<slomo> bddebian: nope :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: well..
<bddebian> ??
<Nafallo> I asked him to bring stuff in ;-)
<ajmitch> you're not in a *lot* of trouble ;)
<bddebian> Oh well, that's nothing new :-)
* \sh too...gtk-gnutella debian sync ;) i
<chillywilly> we're having a mini hurricane here in WI
<Nafallo> \sh: is that NEW? :-)
<bddebian> All those lakes overflowing? :-)
<chillywilly> 70+mph winds, lot o' lightening
<chillywilly> lightning
<chillywilly> blowing rain like craay
<chillywilly> crazy*
<Nafallo> sounds fun.
<bddebian> Yeah, imagine all that cheese flying around.. ;-P
<Nafallo> never happens anything here :-P
<chillywilly> it's just a severe thunder storm
* chillywilly goes to look at the radar
<\sh> Nafallo: no...only new upstream to fix all issues with gcc4
<chillywilly> http://intellicast.com/Local/USLocalWide.asp?loc=uswict25126&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=RadarImagery&product=RadarLoop&prodnav=none
<tseng> robitaille: ping
<robitaille> tseng,  pong
<tseng> robitaille: please reinstall libglib2.0-cil and try to reproduce this phantom bug
<Nafallo> \sh: I asked for sbackup :-)
<tseng> robitaille: if you have a moment.
<robitaille> tseng,  ok
<\sh> Nafallo: we have enough time ;)
<\sh> well..I hope so
<Nafallo> hehe
<chillywilly> the gnome-terminal in breezy works crappily with screen
<bddebian> crappily? :-)
<chillywilly> has refresh issues
<chillywilly> yes :)
<chillywilly> crappily
<\sh> works for me
<chillywilly> :)
<tseng> turn off the terminal bell helps
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> unchecked it
<tseng>  vbell           off
<chillywilly> it's wiggin out right now
<ajmitch> chillywilly: screen repaint not right, especially with irssi?
<tseng> Ctrl+L unwigs momentarily
<chillywilly> ajmitch: yea
<tseng> so you can read.
<ajmitch> it's driven me to other terminals
<chillywilly> :(
<chillywilly> what do you use?
<chillywilly> cause this is annoying
<ajmitch> as soon as someone typed another line I'd have to hit ctrl+l
<tseng> im making do with gnome-term atm
<ajmitch> pterm
<tseng> rxvt-unicode is the best
<chillywilly> ajmitch: Ia m having to do that as we type here
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> brb
<chillywilly> with a new terminal
<chillywilly> hmmm, fonts are very ugly :)
<tseng> thats what ~/.Xdefaults is for
<chillywilly> I haven't had to play with that file in a long long time
<thinkle> hi all -- I'm in the midst of packaging up an app of mine for ubuntu & I got some feedback that my package didn't have the license (oops). I have a copyright file in my debian/ directory -- does anyone know what part of the rules file controls whether/when this should get installed? (let me know if this is the wrong place for this sort of question!)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: didn't you use to use aterm or eterm?
<chillywilly> used to use
<tseng> thinkle: you should copy the lisence info into debian/copyright
<tseng> thinkle: and have it in COPYING or so in the top of your source tree
<tseng> thinkle: look at another package for the format of d/c
<thinkle> tseng: Right -- I've got it there now but don't see that it's being included in the package.
<tseng> its not supposed to be
<tseng> well, debian/copyright is
<tseng> but that should just work afaik
<tseng> maybe cdbs does it.
<chillywilly> so is this a bug in gnome-term, screen, or irssi?
<thinkle> tseng: Okay -- I'm not using cdbs currently though I did start reading up on it a while ago.
<tseng> ajmitch: quick
<ajmitch> dh_installdocs is what does it,
<tseng> ajmitch: save the day.
<ajmitch> if you're using debhelper
<tseng> ajmitch: botsnack
<chillywilly> ajmitch is not a bot! :)
* ajmitch munches his snack
* chillywilly hands ajmitch a beer
* ajmitch drinks the beer
<chillywilly> Leinenkugels, a WI native :)
* slomo eats a pizza :)
<chillywilly> http://www.leinie.com/home.asp
<tseng> i thought you guys only ate schnitzel
<tseng> and bratwurst
* tseng hides
<chillywilly> this is the land of beer and cheese
<thinkle> ajmitch: Thanks
* ajmitch lives to serve
<tseng> so dudes
<chillywilly> tseng: get it right ;)
<tseng> the next windows might not suck
<chillywilly> and it only took them how long to get it right?
<slomo> tseng: but the next office does... saw some screenshots today and it's a usability catastrophe ;)
<Lathiat> tseng: what gives you that idea
<Lathiat> slomo: yeh i agree
<Lathiat> it looks ugly
<tseng> Lathiat: PDC stuff
<Lathiat> tseng: what about it?
<tseng> Lathiat: did you see their f-spot app?
<Lathiat> tseng: nope
<bddebian> slomo: Did elmo really say something about me asking to morgue stuff?
<tseng> Lathiat: http://www.betanews.com/article/Second_Beta_of_Monad_Arrives/1126583267
<ajmitch> bddebian: nothing printable
<slomo> bddebian: no... but you've written him a mail afaik and he didn't delete anything yet afaik
<tseng> Lathiat: http://www.microsoft.com/max/
<bddebian> slomo: Ahh, yes, I have been keeping him quite busy :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-P
<Lathiat> tseng: mmm, piping data around processes in xml
<chillywilly> did you hear about them setting users up as restricted users by detault too?
<tseng> yes
<chillywilly> you have to be Administrator to install software
<chillywilly> where have I seen this before? ;)
<tseng> in every os ever
<tseng> that isnt windows home edition
<Lathiat> pro does the same thing
<chillywilly> pro can be setup like that
<tseng> not when you join a domain
<tseng> which is the entire point of having pro
<chillywilly> but it's not that way by default
<\sh> guys...what about phpapi?
<ajmitch> \sh: what about it?
<Lathiat> tseng: i dunno, i found pro generally performs better
<ajmitch> \sh: it's an easy fix for those packages
<Lathiat> weird, but true
<\sh> ajmitch: which is the replacement?
<ajmitch> \sh: there is no replacement - php4 used to provide the older phpapi
<ajmitch> now it provides a newer one
<ajmitch> the debian/rules of those packages that depend on it need fixed though
<tseng> Lathiat: so this monad thing is supposed to have parts of unix tools for windows
<tseng> Lathiat: like.. grep
<ajmitch> a 5 minute job once I learnt how
<\sh> ok..so install-dep to what package name? php4-cli/libapache-mod-php4 ?
<tseng> i need to fix phpmyadmin
<tseng> to use php4
<tseng> php5
<tseng> removing your old install is ass
<ajmitch> \sh: no, bad!
<\sh> ajmitch: so..tell me ;)
<ajmitch> phpapi-20050606
<ajmitch> if you read the php4 changelog :P
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...I see how it's done with php4-auth-pam stuff
<ajmitch> how is it done there?
<ajmitch> if it's the ugly mess of grep & friends, it needs changed
<\sh> build-dep to php4-dev and in debian/rules         echo "php:Depends=phpapi-$(phpapiver)" >> debian/php4-auth-pam.substvars
<tseng> 4:4.3.10-10
<robitaille> tseng,  removed libglib2.0-cil (which removed beagle and a few other packages as well), reinstalled all of them; and I still get bug 2222
<tseng> robitaille: i didnt mean to remove it all, but ok
<ajmitch> \sh: yes, and you need to set phpapiver to something sane
<ajmitch> see the top of debian/rules
<tseng> robitaille: in the future.. apt-get install --reinstall
<\sh> ajmitch: phpapiver=$(shell grep '\#define PHP_API_VERSION ' /usr/include/php4/main/php.h |sed 's/\#define PHP_API_VERSION //')
<ajmitch> that mess needs ripped out & burnt
<robitaille> tseng,   I wanted to be sure I was starting with a clean state of beagle and friends
<ogra> phew
<ajmitch> then shot
<\sh> ajmitch: so setting it directly to 20050606? ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: phpapiver=$(shell php-config --phpapi)
<\sh> ok
<tseng> robitaille: can you then verify that all the files are there
<ajmitch> as documented well in the changelog :)
<bddebian> Heh
<\sh> ajmitch: yes...I know RTFM \sh ,-)
* ajmitch tones down his RTFMness ;)
<tseng> wow
<ajmitch> \sh: sorry, it just took me awhile to get this right, for some reason ;)
<tseng> so are we leaving all this stuff with a hard dep on php4?
<chillywilly> Eterm is interesting...but the colors need to be tweaked
<tseng> because the user experience totally blows if i install php5
<tseng> half stuff wants to remove it
<\sh> ajmitch: no..it's ok...I'm just to lazy right now ;)
<ajmitch> tseng: good question
<ajmitch> we should probably be testing stuff with php5
<tseng> infinity said change what I care to to php5
<tseng> after testing
<ajmitch> seeing just how much of it breaks
<ajmitch> testing is a real pain though
<tseng> i have an assload of code at work running on 5
<bddebian> An assload eh?
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes
<tseng> i just wrote more today
<\sh> tseng: u want another transition right now? ,-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: slightly larger than a metric shitload, ok?
<tseng> assload += 300 lines
<tseng> \sh: YES PLEASE.
<bddebian> ajmitch: metric?  WTF is that? ;-P
<\sh> tseng: GO AWAY !
<\sh> *eg*
<ajmitch> bddebian: something the civilised world uses
<tseng> \sh: when else would we do it
<ajmitch> tseng: november
<\sh> tseng: breezy+1 when php5 is well tested...so we have time to change all modules as well to php5 (if there is a new upstream which supportes php5)
<bddebian> tseng: Keep it down, you're talking too much
* bddebian ducks
<tseng> \sh: well then php will suck in breezy
<tseng> \sh: because 4 is not supported
<tseng> 5 is
<tseng> all the stuff in main depends on 5
<ajmitch> yes
<\sh> tseng: those modules in universe is also unsupported...
<\sh> s/is/are/
<ajmitch> if we were given some more time, perhaps we could test everything in universe
<tseng> unsupported <> unusable
<\sh> tseng: and we can always backport them to breezy
<ajmitch> so I guess we can at best dep on php4 | php5
<tseng> i will be moving stuff i use to php5
<ajmitch> and test them later
<tseng> let me see what ogra did with mediawiki
<\sh> ajmitch: or do two binary packages out of one source
<tseng> \sh: no reason, its the same code
<ajmitch> \sh: yes, that gets ugly to hack up
<tseng> Depends: apache2 | httpd, php5 (>= 5.0.4), php5-mysql, debconf (>= 0.2.26)
<tseng> Recommends: mysql-server
<tseng> im doing the same thing
<tseng> php5 or bust
<ajmitch> you can't have php4 & php5 modules loaded at once in apache either
<\sh> tseng: some people wants to use php4
<tseng> i think depends on stuff in universe would be bad
<tseng> are we smart with the | ?
<tseng> \sh: tough cookies, i say
<Lathiat> cant you php5 | php4
<Lathiat> or php and have php4,5 provide: php and conflicts each other
<Lathiat> or something
<tseng> 1) maybe
<tseng> 2) no
<tseng> some stuff could (is?) known not to work with one of the two
<\sh> Lathiat: we have both...5 in main 4 in universe
<Lathiat> is all php4 apps guaranteed to work in php5?
<tseng> no.
<ajmitch> Lathiat: certainly not
<\sh> Lathiat: so it will mostly pull 5 in and if we have bad luck it ftbfs because of php5
<tseng> dude
<Lathiat> bit harsh *forcing* people to use 5 then
<ajmitch> \sh: php stuff hardly ftbfs :)
<tseng> php doesnt build anyting
<tseng> there is no FTBFS
<tseng> its JIT
<ajmitch> it's like VB for the web
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I had some nice pitfalls at lycos with switching from 4.1 to 4.2 :(
<tseng> or you could consider it interpreted
<\sh> ajmitch: so I don't trust php at all
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, but that's running it, not building packages
<tseng> ajmitch: ugh
<tseng> ajmitch: dont say that again.
<tseng> :)
<\sh> ajmitch: I'm speaking of loadable modules for php not source for php
<tseng> eh
<tseng> no one is talking about loadable modules
<tseng> thats a whole other can of worms
<\sh> php-auth-pam is not php source .. it's plain C ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: well the php4 modules are all built - we don't care about them
<ajmitch> I see..
<ajmitch> those packages are just slightly different :P
<\sh> hahaha
<bddebian> Well shiite, the newer version of gaikachu doesn't build either..
<ajmitch> \sh: we're talking about the mass of packages that run on php
<chillywilly> rubyonrails is bad ass though :)
<ajmitch> rather than the small number of extensions
<tseng> chillywilly: yeah yeah
<tseng> chillywilly: my code doesnt up and port itself to ruby, though.
<ajmitch> \sh: php4 extensions would need to be ported to 5,
<\sh> ajmitch: this is really something else..I was pointing to modules for php...not php sources like mediawiki or wordpress ,)
<robitaille> tseng,   all the files in  libglib2.0-cil appears to have been installed
<\sh> ajmitch: yes..and right now I'm not willing to do it
<ajmitch> chillywilly: pls rewrite all php apps in universe for RoR then kthx
<tseng> robitaille: ok.
<chillywilly> ajmitch: no, you do it
<ajmitch> \sh: there's absolutely no point in doing it
<tseng> robitaille: well, i cant find anything wrong here
<ajmitch> chillywilly: no, I'm not the RoR fan
<tseng> robitaille: please beat me with a cluebat when you find one
<ajmitch> I've actually got aother MOTU stuff to do :)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I find most web applications disgutingly violate the principles of the web :)
* tseng fanboys RoR
<bddebian> WTF is rubyonrails anyway?
<tseng> bddebian: ...
<Lathiat> bddebian: www.rubyonrails.org
<Lathiat> RoR ftw
<ajmitch> bddebian: you obviously haven't been tuned in to the hype
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> ajmitch: You know I'm st00pid :-)
<tseng> ajmitch: dude i so showed you the code, its not hype
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I think the *hype* is warranted
<tseng> ajmitch: GET ON BOARD
<ajmitch> bddebian: you know that's asking for a smart comment in return
<thinkle> I'm getting an error at the following on dpkg-buildpackage (within dh_installdocs): cp -a \# debian/gnome-sudoku/usr/share/doc/gnome-sudoku -- seems obvious enough what the typo is, but grepping about debian/ isn't finding anything matching .*#.*doc.* Any pointers?
<ajmitch> tseng: is it required to love RoR to be a tseng fanboy then?
<bddebian> Heh
<tseng> ajmitch: aboslutely
<ajmitch> that's just not fair
<tseng> ajmitch: you must conform.
<robitaille> tseng,  question: is the fact that I have both libglib-cil and libglib2.0-cil installed could be a factor here?
<chillywilly> time to feed my child
<chillywilly> cya l8
<chillywilly> r
<tseng> robitaille: no
<bddebian> l8r chillywilly
<ajmitch> chillywilly: why isn't he helping with MOTU work yet?
<tseng> robitaille: compare dpkg -L libglib{,2.0}-cil
<tseng> robitaille: they are happily seperated
<robitaille> tseng,  ok; I was just looking in /usr/lib/mono/gac/glib-sharp/ and noticed that I had 2 directories in there, only one coming from libglib2
* robitaille simply throwing wild guesses in the air...
<tseng> robitaille: yes.
<tseng> at least a better guess than "multisync ate my evo files and made glib disappear"
<tseng> :)
<tseng> that guy removing evo and it not removing beagle is a bug, though
<tseng> evo-sharp needs to depend on evo stuff
<slomo> i wonder why it doesn't
<tseng> i dunno, but lets file it away in our list of things to fix
<chillywilly> back
<chillywilly> ajmitch: because he's only 8
<\sh> I'm doing now all this shitty php4 extentions...
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why isn't chillywilly helping with MOTU stuff? ;-)
<ajmitch> chillywilly: that's more than old enough
<bddebian> \sh: I repeat.  You DA MAN :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: because he's too good for us mere mortals :P
<\sh> bddebian: no...
<\sh> bddebian: I'm just bored
<ajmitch> \sh: 5 minutes per package then? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: less
<ajmitch> yeah
<chillywilly> bah
<\sh> ajmitch: I hope everything is building as well on amd64/ppc/ia64
<chillywilly> amd64 rules
<bddebian> So what replaces just xlibmesa-dev, when it's not gl or glu ?
<\sh> gnome-launch-box is PITA
<ajmitch> \sh: nobody cares about those archs ;)
<bddebian> hehe
<ajmitch> bddebian: both, iirc
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK, thx
<ajmitch> bddebian: or you can check to see which one a package uses
<chillywilly> I have 2 amd64 Ubuntu servers in production right now
<slomo> \sh: you look at the packages as me ;)
<\sh> bddebian: libgl1-mesa
<chillywilly> I care
<slomo> \sh: gnome-launch-box must be ported to the new gnome-menus api... good luck ;)
<\sh> bddebian: libglu1-mesa
<\sh> slomo: I know
<\sh> slomo: but this is upstream work...
<bddebian> \sh: OK, thx
<\sh> slomo: and upstream stopped somehow...I checked svn
<slomo> \sh: sure... but upstream seems to be dead :(
<\sh> slomo: so morgue ,-)
<\sh> ok...time for the third bottle of coke
<ajmitch> coke, that's what i haven't had today...
<bddebian> OK, what is libgl1-dev ?
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<\sh> opengl
<jsgotangco> hi
<bddebian> \sh: I don't see the package, is there a replacement?
<bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
<\sh> libgl1-mesa-dev
<Lathiat> bddebian: what you want
<Lathiat> bddebian: is
<Lathiat> libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev
<bddebian> I changed that for the build depends but it also depends libgl1-dev ?
<Lathiat> also for glu
<Lathiat> libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev
<Lathiat> bddebian: it *depends* on -dev ?
<bddebian> Err libgl1, sorry
<\sh> hmmm...
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> so
<\sh> phpize is broken
<Lathiat> libgl1-mesa | libgl1
<Lathiat> libglu1-mesa | libglu1
<Lathiat> bddebian: they should be using shlibs tho
<bddebian> Well it isnt :-)
<bddebian> Should I "fix" it?
<Lathiat> it sucks
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> bddebian: nah dw
<Lathiat> just make it as i said
<\sh> ajmitch: u saw the output of phpize?
<ajmitch> \sh: nope
<bddebian>  /bin/bash: rebuild: command not found  ??  WTF is rebuild?
<ajmitch> bddebian: magic
<\sh> ajmitch: it says: phpapiver == 2002nnnn
<\sh> but php-config --phpapi is telling the truth
<\sh> /usr/bin/phpize
<\sh> Configuring for:
<\sh> PHP Api Version:         20020918
<\sh> Zend Module Api No:      20020429
<\sh> Zend Extension Api No:   20050606
* jsgotangco succumbs to *.
<ajmitch> \sh: I'll look
<\sh> ajmitch: thx
<\sh> anyways all packages uploaded
<ajmitch> \sh: might be something to ask infinity
<ajmitch> it's doing the  PHP_API_VERSION=`grep '#define PHP_API_VERSION' $includedir/main/php.h|sed 's/#define PHP_API_VERSION//'`
<\sh> strange
<\sh> lets see the output later when it's compiled
<ajmitch> well php.h still has that old version
<slomo> ajmitch: i think i'll make cabal uninstallable again for fixing the other stuff finally ;) or do you suggest something else?
<ajmitch> slomo: ok, you can try that :)
<ajmitch> break it so hard that elmo cries & has no choice but to remove it? ;)
<slomo> lol
<slomo> no
<slomo> he will kill me :P
<slomo> ok, i have one alternative... change haskell-devscripts to not depend on cabal
<bddebian> ajmitch: Seriously, I'm getting that from debuild but dpkg-buildpackage works fine?
<ajmitch> bddebian: and pbuilder build does what?
<ajmitch> bddebian: grep over the package source tree
<bddebian> ajmitch: I can't get that far but I might have fixed it, hang on
<crimsun> \sh: you use snd_hda_intel on Breezy, correct?
<\sh> crimsun: what I'm using? snd_hda_intel? u mean i915?
<crimsun> \sh: what's the output from ''tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat''?
<bddebian> Hmm  $(shell which yada) rebuild packages  ??
<\sh> crimsun: on what laptop? portege or hp?
<slomo> bddebian: yada is evil :(
<crimsun> \sh: well, the Intel High Def Audio sound chipset
<ajmitch> eww, yada
<\sh> Mixers:
<\sh> 0: Analog Devices AD1981B
<\sh> this is nc6000
<\sh> from hp
<bddebian> This package pretty much sucks :-)
<\sh> crimsun: the portege i have to switch on ... give me 2 mins
<crimsun> \sh: ok
<crimsun> those blasted ALC880 codecs :(
<\sh> crimsun: 0: Analog Devices AD1981B
<crimsun> \sh: all right, thanks.
<\sh> portege r200 that is
<crimsun> so far I've seen two critical reports of ALSA in Breezy's kernel OOPSing on boot because the AC'97 codec is blatantly misrecognized
<crimsun> sigh, gonna be a long night of register dumps
<slomo> are the ppc buildds dead?
<Nafallo> crimsun: you seem to be a person that might know what I should do about my damn alsa-config ;-).
<Nafallo> crimsun: headphones uses the headphonelevel and ignores master.
<Nafallo> crimsun: annoying as I can't use my hotkeys for volume up and down while on headphones ;-)
<crimsun> Nafallo: believe there's a bug open on mantis about it, but I don't have the details in front of me atm
<Nafallo> mantis?
<crimsun> ALSA's bugtracker linked from alsa-project.org
<crimsun> unfortunately atm there's no convenient way to override mixer elements in a conffile
<Nafallo> dang :-P
<Nafallo> right now I have changed the applet to headphones and use the hotkeys for masterlevel ;-)
<crimsun> yeah, the applet can be handy
<crimsun> the entire control layer needs to be rewritten, though
<Nafallo> crimsun: https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=1051
<Nafallo> found it! :-)
<Nafallo> that's my laptop to :-P
<crimsun> line _in_?
<Nafallo> hmm, no headphone. he have got it wrong ;-)
<Nafallo> and it would be better to bind master and headphone than master and pcm
<crimsun> god, this is gonna be special-case hell
<Nafallo> :-P
<bddebian> Uh-oh did someone pick off qglviewer?
<bddebian> Oh nm
<crimsun> Nafallo: what's the output from ''tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat''?
<Nafallo> *sigh* can't we just drop this "you need a name and password on bugtrackers" shit? ;-)
<Nafallo> 0: Realtek ALC250 rev 2
<Nafallo> 1: Silicon Laboratory Si3036,8 rev
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> Nafallo: what happens when you modprobe snd-via82xx ac97_quirk=hp_only ?
<crimsun> (after unloading snd-via82xx)
<Nafallo> is there a quick way to unload it all? :-)
<crimsun> invoke-rc.d alsa force-unload
<Nafallo> hmm, I'll have to reboot. I forgot I switched kernel ;-)
<Nafallo> brb
<Nafallo> back
<Nafallo> modprobe snd_via82xx ac97_quirk=hp_only
<Nafallo> right?
* Nafallo lost backlog ;-)
<crimsun> yep
<Nafallo> turned off my right headphone
<Nafallo> and that's all
<crimsun> grr
<bddebian> Yeah grr
<crimsun> do you have a 'Headphone Jack Sense'?
<crimsun> if so, is it enabled/unmuted?
<Nafallo> nope, not that I can see.
<crimsun> ok, one down.
<crimsun> welp, no hp_only for you
<Nafallo> any other quirks? :-)
<crimsun> not for your codec (yet)
<slomo_> ok, silly question... dh_shlibdeps -a -Lpostgresql-dev.... this makes the package depend on postgresql-dev, correct?
<bddebian> Sounds right but seems weird to depend on a -dev package
<slomo_> ok... so i'll remove this crap and make it right ;)
<bddebian> Don't quote me though, I'm not the brightest star in the sky :-)
<Lathiat> yo tseng
<slomo_> Lathiat: do you use sebest's panel applet? since the 0.4 update i sometimes get workstation disappeared notifications directly followed by a workstation discovered notification
<Lathiat> slomo_: yes we're aware of that, unsure of the problem
<Lathiat> i need to talk to lennart morre
<slomo_> ok... hope we get this fixed for breezy ;)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Lathiat> slomo_: mm not so hopeful
<Lathiat> maybe
<LaserJock> Hi! bddebian
<\sh> ok..enough for toda
<\sh> y
<bddebian> Gnight \sh :-)
<slomo_> gn8 \sh :) when do you sleep normally? or can you sleep long tomorrow?
<\sh> moment...
<\sh> i'm not finished
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> php-imlib
<\sh> slomo_: I have holidays :)
<bddebian> \sh: infinity just asked elmo for a sync
<bddebian> Sheesh, mozart it taking forver to build..
<ajmitch> bddebian: get a faster box
<bddebian> Heh, no shix
<slomo_> bddebian: build gwydion-dylan... that takes forever :P
<\sh> bddebian: it won't work without xlibs-dev or libx11-dev
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm just gonna have to convert all my Hurd boxes to Ubuntu machines.. ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: might as well
<\sh> slomo_: and normally I sleep around 10 UTC ;)
<ajmitch> by the time breezy+24 comes around, the hurd might be usable ;)
<\sh> 10pm UTC ;)
<LaserJock> bddebian: try running Gentoo ;-) That takes a while to compile
<bddebian> LaserJock: Uhm, no thanks :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh
<LaserJock> have you guys heard from bmonty in a while?
<bddebian> I think he was here last night
<LaserJock> hmm, I was going to talk to him about ghemical but I keep missing him
<bddebian> Is the mozilla-locale-* crap even worth looking at?
<LaserJock> what's the deal with the myth* stuff?
<bddebian> What do you mean,what's the deal with it?
<slomo> LaserJock: it's evil ;)
<LaserJock> is there a reason why there is a bunch of myth stuff in the Nobody section?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we're going to try & get 0.18 in
<bddebian> LaserJock: Just means that it has an unmet dep and no-one has looked at it yet
<ajmitch> it just requires some fixes first
<bddebian> ajmitch: It's in
<ajmitch> bddebian: not the plugins
<bddebian> Oh
<Nafallo> crimsun: hp_only wasn't the cause for only left speaker. I accidently put the plug in to far ;-).
<Nafallo> didn't fix anything either :-P
<bddebian> ajmitch: What about the mozilla-locale-* crap?
<LaserJock> I've never had to deal with it. I've heard some horror stories :-) . I just wondered if there was something that they where having a problem with. Like gcc or something
<ajmitch> bddebian: dunno
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, mythtv stuff isn't compiling right with g++ 4.0
<bddebian> I pulled an update from CVS that worked
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is it OK to use g++-3.4 if 4.0 doesn't work ? Or is that no good?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: but we have to use packages from elsewhere for 0.18
<bddebian> LaserJock: It's not preferred but in some cases (openswan for example) we may not have a choice
<LaserJock> OK, I sent the Debian maintainer some fixes for libghemical and one of them was using 3.4 instead of 4.0
<LaserJock> I don't know if it could be fixed, I just saw something on the CVS and tried it and it worked
<bddebian> ajmitch: Are there any phpapi-* packages that actually exist?
<bddebian> ajmitch: nm, I'll try the newer version using php4-dev
<slomo> bddebian: <ajmitch> phpapi-20050606
<ajmitch> that's a virtual package
<bddebian> Hello jaldhar
<xerxas> hi
<jaldhar> bddebian: hello
<bddebian> Hello xerxas
<slomo> ok, good night everybody ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: gnight :-)
<bddebian> Gnight slomo, good stuff as always :-)
<xerxas> would it make sense to add "ForwardX11 yes" to /etc/ssh/ssh_config in the openssh-client package ?
<\sh> no
<Nafallo> no
<bddebian> no
<xerxas> :)
<LaserJock> aw heck, me too. no ;-)
<xerxas> why ?
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> people that needs it know how to turn it on themselves?
<ajmitch> because people should have that in ~/.ssh if they want it?
<ajmitch> it can be a security hole in itself?
<xerxas> X11 forwarding should be enabled with caution. (from the manpage)
* bddebian doesn't think he wants to touch thai-system
<xerxas> ajmitch, I think I spoke too fast
<Nafallo> bddebian: ofcourse you do ;-)
<ajmitch> if you don't trust the system you're logging into, well..
<LaserJock> I think you can also use ssh -X instead of changing the ssh_config file
<ajmitch> programs on that system can spy on your whole desktop session, record keystrokes, etc :)
<bddebian> I thought libdps1 was a goner?
<ajmitch> bddebian: yep
<ajmitch> gone, kaput, vanished
<bddebian> OK, so remove dep in tclmagick? ;-)
<ajmitch> hm, it should have been done already?
<ajmitch> or did I not upload that?
<bddebian> Still shows in my local unmet deps
<bddebian> When did you do it?
* ajmitch has debdiff here..
<ajmitch> ok, will upload
<bddebian> awesome, thanks
<Nafallo> wasn't on my breezy-changes ;-)
<ajmitch> I did most of the other magicks :)
* Nafallo will start address ajmitch as the wizard :-P
<bddebian> "Always, always, I tell you.  Be what you is, not what you is not..."
<\sh> ajmitch: go for libgda2 ;)
<Nafallo> yay!
<Nafallo> gnome-screensaver speaks swedish.
<Nafallo> and I haven't noticed :-P
<LaserJock> you guys don't happen to know why man pages have weird characters? This is driving me nuts
<\sh> weired characters?
<LaserJock> like a different encoding or something
<\sh> utf-8?
<LaserJock> should I have utf-8 or no?
<\sh> utf-8 is standard normally
<\sh> g'night guys...finished for this morning :)
<LaserJock> I am trying to rebuild quick-lounge-applet but I get "menu-tree.h: No such file or directory"  and I can't find it anywhere. Do you guys happen to know?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Not offhand but hang on, I'm looking
<bddebian> Hmm, libgnome-menu-dev has a gmenu-tree.h but I don't see just a menu-tree.h
<LaserJock> hmm, well I think that Debian must have it because it builds ok there
<Lathiat> bddebian: its api/namespace changed
<Lathiat> LaserJock: are you looking at quick-lounge-applet?
<Lathiat> i ported it to the new api
<Lathiat> however it didnt quite work right
<Lathiat> hadnt had time to figure out why
<Lathiat> (the api port wasnt 100% trivial, a few names changed to less obvious things, etc)
<LaserJock> hmm, I tried to build the Debian source and got the same error
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> it hasnt been ported upstream
<Lathiat> i checked their cvs
<LaserJock> so as far as UniverseUnmetDeps is concerned, should it go in the FixMe section?
<Lathiat> i guess so
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yes, please
<lamont> Rejected: php4-imap_4.3.10-2ubuntu2_hppa.deb: old version (4:5.0.4-1) in breezy >= new version (4:4.3.10-2ubuntu2) targeted at breezy.
<lamont> so who uploaded php4-imap, I wonder...
<ajmitch> infinity synced, iirc
<bddebian> Wasn't me :-)
<lamont> with a -ubuntu version number, I'm having a hard time believing in 'synced'......
<bddebian> I think \sh was working on some build issues with it
<ajmitch> you're right..
<ajmitch>  Accepted php-imap 5.0.5-1
<ajmitch> on breezy-changes though
<ajmitch> ignore me
<ajmitch> that's php-imap
<ajmitch> not php4-imap
<bddebian> Oh heh, whoops
<lamont> but php-imap delivered (in 4:5.0.4-1) a binary package named 'php4-imap', and so you're hosed.
<ajmitch> I see nothing on breezy-changes about it
<lamont> but adding an epoch is something you really really really really want to avoid.
<lamont> me neither.
<Lathiat> lamont: why is that, btw
<lamont> Lathiat: because being out of sync with debian on epoch numbers would be a royal pain in the rear.
<bddebian> OK, stalin sucks
* Lathiat nods
<lamont> Lathiat: because there's no going back once you bump the epoch...
<Lathiat> lamont: just it seems to be a debian thing not to put an epoch too
<Lathiat> lamont: wondering why
<lamont> at the same time, php4-imap_4:5.0.4.99-really-4.3.10-2ubuntu2 looks pretty ugly too....
<lamont> adding an epoch is really just saying "I screwed up, kthxbye"
<Lathiat> right
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<pef> hello
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey andrew :)
<ajmitch> what's up?
<dholbach> good question :)
<dholbach> still no internet access :-(((
<dholbach> i had to travel for internet again
<dholbach> *GRRRR*
<Treenaks> dholbach: not enough wifi'ing neighbors?
<dholbach> 3, but all encrypted and poor signal
<dholbach> yesterday i took a day off just to wait for a never-arriving technician
<dholbach> i was ready to kill after 5h of waiting and 39m in the hotline listening to justing timberlake and the like
<Treenaks> dholbach: yay ex-monopolies?
<dholbach> i moved away from telekom, but actually it got worse
* dholbach cries a fair bit
<\sh> morning
<\sh> *yawn*
<dholbach> where on the wiki is the bug day draft?
<robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
<\sh> oops
<robitaille> :)
<robitaille> there is some echo in this room :)
<robitaille> wiki auth seems to be down right now...
<Burgundavia> robitaille, they pulled down lp for an upgrade
<\sh> robitaille: I go back to bed just now...:
<dholbach> we need to get the announcement out
<\sh> ajmitch: wanted to do it :(
<pef> launchpad is down too
<\sh> trying libgda2-1.2.2 (new upstream) but I need to go bed
<\sh> also here the same ftbfs error
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> the script to determine the unmet deps is wrong
<ajmitch> hm
<\sh> ajmitch: did u send out the announcement of the bug day? ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: nope
* ajmitch hides face
<\sh> i need to sleep at least 2 more hours
<\sh> going to bed again...cu later
<dholbach> are  #11093,  #11096  and  #11097  already fixed?
<ivoks> hello
<siretart> hi folks!
* siretart waves from an internet cafe in .at
<dholbach> hi siretart
<siretart> dholbach!! :)
<siretart> how's it going?
<dholbach> fine... thank you :)
<dholbach> how it .at?
<dholbach> where are you exactly?
<siretart> in Spittal, near Villach
<dholbach> ah :)
<dholbach> my sister will move to vienna soon :)
<siretart> cool :)
<siretart> how's berlin?
<ivoks> hi
<siretart> hi ivoks
<ivoks> totem can't play mms?
<siretart> if you have w32codecs installed, it should work via totem-xine
<shawarma> ivoks: Is the gstreamer-mms plugin packaged?
<shawarma> ivoks: AFAICS it isn't.
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> then gxine is my prefered app :)
<ivoks> (and i don't have w32codecs)
<ivoks> shawarma: problems? :)
<shawarma> ivoks: Freakin' wireless network at university.
<ivoks> :/
<shawarma> If you ever replied to the gstreamer-mms question, I didn't receive it..
<ivoks> 12:53 < ivoks> ok
<ivoks> 12:54 < ivoks> then gxine is my prefered app :)
<ivoks> 12:54 < ivoks> (and i don't have w32codecs)
<shawarma> Ok... maybe my message didn't get through.. I asked if gstreamer-mms was packaged?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> response to that was "ok"
<shawarma> Maybe someone should do that. gstreamer is in main, isn't it?
<shawarma> ivoks: Oh, right.
<ivoks> maybe we could package that?
<shawarma> My point exactly.
<shawarma> The other gstreamer stuff is in main, right?
<ivoks> except multiverse plugins
<shawarma> right. gstreamer-mms could go into universe, but I guess it ought to be in main.
<shawarma> It's part of the gstreamer core now a days, I think.
<ivoks> universe? hm... isn't it non-free?
<shawarma> I don't remember. I was actually part of the dev team on that plugin for a while.
<ivoks> could you provide source? :)
<shawarma> I think it's on sourceforge. Gimme a sec.
<shawarma> http://sourceforge.net/projects/libmms/    geez, I'm still listed as a developer. LOL.
<shawarma> I haven't touched the thing in years.
<shawarma> Well, if it's on sourceforge it can't be non-free.
<ivoks> doesn't look alive :)
<shawarma> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/libmms/libmms/gst-mms/
<shawarma> if it works, don't fix it. :-D
<shawarma> Oh, it seems (from the CVS log) that the gstreamer plugin has been removed from sourceforge because it's in the gstreamer cvs now.
<ivoks> hm
<shawarma> that's why I don't get why it's not already packaged...
<shawarma> http://cvs.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-plugins/ext/libmms/
<shawarma> right there.
<dholbach> does anybody know what happened to 11694  ? and the other bugs i mentioned some minutes ago?
<ivoks> shawarma: would you like to package it?
<shawarma> Maybe... I'd like to first find out why it isn't in main already.. But sure, why not?
<ivoks> we should have this
<shawarma> Hehe! It's even in the source package for gstreamer0.8
<ivoks> it works on debian, tough...
<shawarma> I'll probably submit a patch to that package then. Hold on.
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> dholbach, they hide from you and dont wannabe fixed ?
<dholbach> ogra: they might be fixed already, that's why i asked :)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> if someone wants a really hard bug, try 14967 :)
<shawarma> ogra: Wow... That looks fscked up. Have you reproduced it?
<ogra> shawarma, it reproduces itself here, several times a day :(
<shawarma> ogra: Weirdness.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i'll look for a inotify specialist after the edubuntu meeting today i think...
<shawarma> Is it only Pan?
<ogra> all KDE apps
<ogra> which is very odd for edubuntu, since it provides apps from both worlds
<shawarma> Pan isn't a KDE app..
<ogra> nope
<shawarma> So Pan and all KDE apps.
<ogra> i'm not particulary interested in pan... pan registers its .desktop file in a gnome1 dir thats wrong anyway
<ajmitch> ah, sabdfl has officially announced dapper
<shawarma> dapper?
<ajmitch> good to see :)
<ajmitch> breezy+1
<shawarma> Oh!
<ogra> you can boil it down to "all apps that dont put their .desktop files in /usr/share/applications"
<shawarma> dodgy dapper? Or?
<shawarma> ogra: Oh. Hmm, I see.
<ajmitch> dapper drake
<shawarma> I see.
<shawarma> coolness.
<ogra> the friendly dragon :)
<Treenaks> ogra: dragon is too KDEish ;)
<ogra> drake not ?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | First priority: FIX REMAINING TRANSITIONS! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions | please check: http://tinyurl.com/btwff
<ogra> dholbach, diff ?
<dholbach> please check: http://tinyurl.com/btwff
<ogra> ah, thanks
<shawarma> The first one is fixed.
<shawarma> It's in REVU.
<ogra> yehia, libsigc tulip ?  these were done months ago ...
<ogra> even tyvis ...
<shawarma> poker3d, that is.
<ogra> why are the above not closed, they should be done since ages ?
<mvo> dholbach: to fix babytrans we need babytrans-common from ftp.nerim.net, what's the usual way to get stuff from a apt-get.org repo? can it just be synced?
<dholbach> mvo: why is it on marillat's repo? non-free-ness?
<dholbach> mvo: maybe it's a case like libdvdcss?
<dholbach> mvo then we can't pull it in at all
<ogra> dholbach, its free...
<ogra> its just not imported
<dholbach> if it really is, put it on the AptGetOrg wiki page - i'll take care of it
<dholbach> thanks for that.
<mvo> dholbach: it looks like it's missing a license (also the debian/copyright file claims that it's free)
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> elmo won't like that
<mvo> if so, it's probably easier to remove babytrans (because it's useless without babytrans-common
<dholbach> does it have lots of rdepends?
<shawarma> ivoks: I'm behind this stupid proxy... Could you test the mms-package for me?
<mvo> dholbach: none
<dholbach> well :)
<shawarma> ivoks: http://www.warma.dk/gstreamer0.8-mms_0.8.11-0ubuntu4_i386.deb
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/MorgueCandidates :-)
<mvo> dholbach: asked elmo for removal, thanks
<dholbach> super
<shawarma> Why am I writing to people who aren't here? Argh..
<dholbach> drakes have nothing to do with dragons :)
<ogra> nop
<ogra> e
<slomo> dholbach: that was my first thought too... until i looked in the dictionary ;)
<dholbach> hey slomo :)
<shawarma> Could someone please test a mms plugin for gstreamer for me? I'm behind this stupid proxy so i can't test it..
<shawarma> http://www.warma.dk/gstreamer0.8-mms_0.8.11-0ubuntu4_i386.deb
<slomo> hi dholbach :) wish me luck with the haskell stuff ;) i have a feeling that most of this stuff will fail :P
<dholbach> *fingers crossed* :)
<slomo> Nafallo: ping?
<\sh_away> ogra: yehia is not cxx transitioned..because it's ftbfsing too much and upstream doesn't do anything since 3 years..
<ogra> oh, ok
<\sh> ogra: I think I'll put it on morgue..yes..I will
<mvo> what do I have to do if I fix universe broken stuff? update some list or something?
<\sh> move it from "fixme" or "nobody" to "mvo" ;)
<ogra> \sh, DOIT !
<ajmitch> mvo: great! another universe fixer! :)
<mvo> \sh: I assume "Incoming" means it has no owner yet?
* ajmitch sleeps
<\sh> mvo: yes but it's tagged with "Nobody" ;)
<mvo> ajmitch: heh :) just the stuff in gnome-app-install
<ajmitch> \sh, ogra: fyi I did get the bug day announce sent out
* ajmitch puts laptop away, night all ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: thx and g'night :)
<\sh> btw...I need a list with all morgue candidates..so that I can send elmo all the packages in one mail ;)
<slomo> \sh: you'll get some haskell stuff later ;)
<slomo> btw... what is with the ghc5-only stuff? ghc5 is still broken...
<\sh> ogra: and aqsis the same...https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1225058&group_id=25264&atid=383970
<\sh> slomo: k
<slomo> hmm... i wonder why all debian maintainers for haskell packages are dead or don't work...
<slomo> \sh: ping?
<\sh> slomo: pong
<slomo>  dpkg-source -b c2hs-0.13.6
<slomo> dpkg-source: building c2hs using existing c2hs_0.13.6.orig.tar.gz
<slomo> tar: c2hs-0.13.6/c2hs/mk/c2hs.pck.mk: Cannot open: File exists
<slomo> tar: c2hs-0.13.6/c2hs/mk/config.mk.in: Cannot open: File exists
<slomo> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
<slomo> can you help me? ;)
<\sh> dpkg-source -x *.dsc?
<slomo> no... pdebuild
<slomo> i had to use a new upstream version of this and now it fails that way ;)
<\sh> hmmm....what is debuild -S saying?
<\sh> uupdate?
<slomo> yes
<\sh> do a debuild -S and check the output
<slomo> it says the same ;)
<\sh> grmpf
<slomo> i can make a native package out of it and it works... but that can't be the solution...
<\sh> slomo: can u send me the .dsc,.diff.gz and .tar.gz?
<slomo> there is no diff.gz... the failure is while creating this one
<\sh> slomo: link to upstream?
<slomo> http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/haskell/c2hs/c2hs-0.13.6.tar.gz
<slomo> just use the old packaging we have and substitute ghc5 with ghc6 in rules and control
<\sh> slomo: hmmm
<\sh> same here...
<\sh> strange
<slomo> any suggestions? ;)
<\sh> nope
<slomo> hrm
<\sh> I never seen this behaviour
<\sh> who is our dpkg guru?
<slomo> no idea... we really need one ;)
<\sh> slomo: ask on -devel ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Nafallo> morning bddebian
<slomo> \sh: no answer :(
<bddebian> Heya Nafallo
<bddebian> Welcome dholbach
<dholbach> re :)
<slomo> wb dholbach :) can you help me? ;) i get this while creation of the diff.gz: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2182
<\sh> dholbach <- is now our dpkg guru ;)
<\sh> and I'm helping ogra in managing children ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<dholbach> slomo: does untarring and applying the patch work?
<slomo> dholbach: there is no patch... new upstream version ;) but uupdate worked without problems
<slomo> \sh: children?
<\sh> slomo: edubuntu stuff ,)
<dholbach> slomo: permissions?
<slomo> \sh: ah... nothing for me ;)
<\sh> slomo: how to provide responsibilty to small children in working with computers and usernames/password
<slomo> dholbach: what do you suggest? chmod -R 777 *? ;)
<dholbach> slomo: have a look if it tried to replace something, which it wasnt able to
<slomo> dholbach: but i could run it with sudo to test...
<slomo> dholbach: doesn't work with sudo... and afaik it doesn't replace anything... the only changes are the debian directory and config.sub/guess
<slomo> dholbach: when i make it a native package everything works ;)
<\sh> slomo: sam
<\sh> e
<dholbach> slomo  debuild -S -sa  it again
<slomo> dholbach: same ;)
<dholbach> *grumpf*
<slomo> debuild needs a force-all option where it can kill everything ;)
* \sh goes to have a shower
<Yagisan> edbuntu suitable for toddlers ?
<bddebian> slomo: Aye :-)
<slomo> dholbach: no idea? hmm... uploading it as a native package is no solution i think ;)
<dholbach> hhehe
<dholbach> could you upload it somewhere, so i could have a look?
<bddebian> slomo: Don't do it.. ;-)
<slomo> dholbach: get http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/haskell/c2hs/c2hs-0.13.6.tar.gz && apt-get source c2hs && uupdate && s/ghc5/ghc6/ in control and rules ;)
<dholbach> that's funny :)
<dholbach> sorry no idea
<slomo> no it is not :P i just wanted to fix this package in a few minutes and learn maths after that... but now that error which doesn't make sense ;)
<slomo> hm ok
<slomo> dholbach: and how do i fix this crappy package now? :(
<dholbach> i added some high-priority stuff to UniverseUnmetDeps :)
<dholbach> slomo did you try a manual update?
<dholbach> without uupdate?
<slomo> sure... same problem
<slomo> what's the high priority stuff?
<dholbach> on top of the page
<dholbach> gnome-app-install wants it
<slomo> i don't want to see any haskell stuff for the next few hours ;) dead debian maintainers and everything... brrr
<mbreit> dholbach: i'll have a look at the psi package...
<dholbach> mbreit: super and hi by the way :)
<slomo> haha... xmule ;)
<mbreit> oh, hi there as well ;)
<slomo> i take this :)
<slomo> dholbach: this man == mvo?
<dholbach> yep :)
<slomo> "his is yet another stable xMule release. Version 1.10.1 mainly focuses on fixing compilation and compatibility bugs. Please note that this version is the first version to include the xMule Acceptable Use License"
<slomo> hmm
<mbreit> hmm... looks like psi could be synced against debian... the only change there is gcc-4 fixes
<slomo> "* Removed Audio+Video search categories to further hinder illegal downloads."
<slomo> all insane ;)
<Yagisan> xmule has gone nuts. See the comments on the front page
<Yagisan> anyone actually use it ?
<hunger> slomo: Cool! A technical "solution" to a legal problem!
<Yagisan> is there a popcon for ubuntu ?
<ogra> Yagisan, yes
<ogra> popcon.ubuntu.com
<\sh> mbreit: what about psi?
<mbreit> \sh: needs to be synced to debian
<Yagisan> ogra: thanks - ubuntu's (hoary)  popcon use http, or email ?
<mbreit> i'll write elmo a mail
<\sh> mbreit: to or from?
<mbreit> from
<ogra> Yagisan, http...
<ogra> Yagisan, but you need to enable it by running dpkg-reconfigure popcon
<\sh> mbreit: there is another issue with psi
<\sh> lemme check the source from debian
<mbreit> \sh: what issue?
<bddebian> dholbach: High priority stuff?? :-)
<\sh> mbreit: gpg-agent
<dholbach> bddebian: yes, to make mvo happy
<Yagisan> thanks ogra.
<\sh> mbreit: per default it's enabled to use gpg-agent
<\sh> mbreit: but we don't start gpg-agent by default ... so it must be disabled in the desktop file
<bddebian> dholbach: mvo?  Who's that? ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: it's _the_ man who brings u the update-manager ,-)
<dholbach> bddebian: michael vogt, a delightful man, taking care of apt, synaptic, gnome-app-install, update-{notifi,manag}er :)
<bddebian> dholbach: I was joking :-)
<ogra> dholbach, he's kidding you ;)
* Lathiat read that as update-mangler
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> mbreit: i will take care about it
<ogra> lol
<mbreit> \sh: okay
<slomo> aclocal: configure.ac: 26: macro `AM_OPTIONS_WXCONFIG' not found in library
<slomo> any ideas?
<Lathiat> slomo: wxwiwndows?
<bddebian> Neutrino should be fairly easy, just needs a sync and a newer libnjb-dev
<Lathiat> need the automake foo installed?
<slomo> Lathiat: is installed ;)
<\sh> which version?
<slomo> \sh: automake 1.7... and this one gets called
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> check what am_options_wxconfig does and add it ,-)
<slomo> first i need to find out where it is ;)
<slomo> that's exactly the problem :P
<bddebian> Someone already looking at gnunet?  Thierry has it on his list?
<slomo> wx-common... hmm
* bddebian gets no love
<slomo> bddebian: fix it when you want ;)
<bddebian> slomo: Well it's on dholbach's new "priority" list ;-)
<slomo> bddebian: i know... so fix it ;)
<bddebian> slomo: OK, I just didn't want to step on any toes :-)
* bddebian pulls newer revision from Debian
<slomo> oh no
<bddebian> No?
<slomo> xmule doesn't like me ;)
<dholbach> ogra: couldn't gcompris coerced into running with python2.4? (12280) - you spent some time struggling with it... didn't that work?
<bddebian> slomo: xmule is ugly.  I looked at it early on
<ogra> dholbach, nope...
<ogra> dholbach, it needs an upgrade before release anyway, i'll look into it...
<ogra> just put it aside, its my issue :)
<slomo> bddebian: but i think i fixed it now...
<Yagisan> with that new clause, xmule would be moving to multiverse right ?
<bddebian> slomo: You ROCK
<bddebian> shit, newer gnunet wants a newer version of libextractor-dev
<slomo> Yagisan: no idea... but i just fixed the old version ;) i don't want to mess with licenses
<slomo> xmule uploaded
<slomo> stopmotion is mine ;)
<\sh> ogra: what about gcompris?
<ogra> \sh,  i'll care for it...
<ogra> i have to backport a lot 7.0 fixes...
<\sh> gnarf :(
* bddebian is looking at gnunet
<bddebian> Not that anyone cares ;-)
<ogra> no, its ok... thats for my last week before release :)
<dholbach> \sh: and python2.3 -> python2.4 (#12280)
<\sh> dholbach: the actual source in archive has 2.4 build-deps--
<\sh> ah
<\sh> guys
<\sh> please...there are some python packages which are providing python2.1/2.2 packages...
<\sh> I had one and removed the 2.1/2.2 packages from control and adjusted at least the rules file and the *.install files
<slomo> stopmotion fixed... sync from debian ;)
<dholbach> thanks \sh
<\sh> we should do it with those packages who are listed on unmet deps (because those are the unmet deps)
<\sh_away> grmpf
<\sh_away> daily dsl crap
<bddebian> Heh
<\sh> mbreit: psi merged from debian and uploaded ;)
<ogra> \sh, dholbach if you stumpble across any gcompris bugs, feel free to assign them to me
<\sh> I don't even know what gcompris is ;)
<dholbach> ogra: right
<ogra> \sh, then dont care, it will cause sleepless nights ...
<ogra> \sh, gcompris is as nice as nvu... just not as insecure
<\sh> ogra: hey man...I don't even know 90% of the sourcecode I touched ;)
<ogra> \sh, be sure you *dont want to know* gcompris' source code (53MB source package)
<bddebian> \sh: Joine the club ;-)
<\sh> ogra: I just downloaded the stuff on my hd ;)
<ogra> \sh, nah... leave it, its as bad as ace... and i think i'l ask for a freeze breakage anyway for it to get 7.0 in...
<slomo> \sh: imagine how long it would take if _this_ was gwydion-dylan ;)
<\sh> ogra: ace is much more crap
* slomo is traumatized ;)
<ogra> \sh, just leave it alone please...
<\sh> slomo: hehe
<\sh> ogra: I leave it :)
<ogra> thanks :)
<\sh> argl..lag
<\sh> somethign is wrong
<\sh> brb
<dholbach> could i have your opinion please: i'm maintaining glom and it needs a postgres server to operate on - now it's not needed locally. how would you deal with that "problem"?
<dholbach> i have a bug report telling me to have a metapackage "glom-local"
<dholbach> in my eyes that doesnt make much sense - any opinions on that?
<Lathiat> dholbach: thats silly
<Lathiat> dholbach: if they want to use it on a local postgres server they can install it themselves ?
<dholbach> hm well, that's what i thought
<dholbach> i wrote  "It's like having a <mail-client>-local package which required a fully-fledged mail server. We should better have a 110% rocking documentation on how to get it working."
<dholbach> although i'd like to hear other views on it
<Lathiat> theyre gonna need to configure postgres at any case right
<Lathiat> so it snot like its a just work sscenario
<Lathiat> and randomly installing servers is dodge
<Lathiat> :)
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> Vorbereiten zum Ersetzen von gnome-games 1:2.12.0-0ubuntu1 (durch .../gnome-games_1%3a2.12.0-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ...
<\sh> WARNUNG: Der Vorgabewert {} fr das Schema (/schemas/apps/gtali/PlayerNames) konnte nicht verarbeitet werden
<\sh> what the hell is this? arabic ?
<dholbach> seems to
<\sh> strange, isn't it?
<dholbach> at least no persian letters i can see
<\sh> funny is , that those letters are multicolored ;)
<dholbach> really?
<\sh> yes
<dholbach> they look nice at my place
<\sh> red blue a bit of cyan white
<dholbach> no, not for me
<slomo> for me they're also multicolored :)
<Gervystar> i see them correctly
<Yagisan> I see arabic
<ogra> dholbach, gah, i missed seb's b-day... just recognized
<dholbach> http://ubuntu.gplan.info/Bildschirmfoto.png - that's how i see it
<dholbach> ogra: congratulate him now
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/uploads/screenshot-20050914.png <- for me
<dholbach> ogra: he'll be happy to have party today too
<\sh> dholbach: not found
<ogra> \sh, woo, heavy music :)
<\sh> ;)
<bddebian> grr, building libextractor is taking FOREVER
<\sh> top 100 charts of germany
<ogra> \sh, yes, and top charts 20 yrs ago...
<\sh> ogra: yes ;)
<\sh> how can I use dpkg not to install but doing a test drive, just like apt-get -s install?
<dholbach> --dry-run?
<\sh> ah yes...man is my friend ,)
<\sh> ogra: gcompris_6.5.3-2+7.0.0PRE1cvs.20050803ubuntu3 build cleanly with 2.4
<ogra> \sh, build is not the question
<\sh> running?
<ogra> i already built it with 2.4
<ogra> but it has 2.3 pieces in the 6.5 version and 2.4 pieces in the 7.0 one...
<\sh> so it doesn't run properly
<slomo> hmm... sarge has 21 unmet deps... we have to be better than them ;)
<slomo> universe/net/xmule_1.10.0b-1ubuntu1: Not-For-Us [optional:out-of-date] 
<slomo> what does this tell me?
<dholbach> what distribution does the upload have?
<slomo> breezy... it even was on breezy-changes ;)
<dholbach> hrm
<slomo> seems like nothing i do today works ;)
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> i like gcompris
<\sh> funny stuff for small children :) nice
<bddebian> slomo: Amen to that :-(
<bddebian> pkern: Hey, elmo synced your obby and net6
<bddebian> But ignored my other 2000 requests :'-(
<pkern> bddebian: And obby failed because net6 wasn't installed yet. ):
<pkern> bddebian: Just checked the build logs.
<bddebian> Heh
<Lathiat> hmm, i thought ubuntu-devel<->ubuntuforums was fread only
<pkern> bddebian: But I really appreciate your help. (o:
<bddebian> pkern: Glad to be of SOME use ;-)
<pkern> bddebian: Can't someone create a database for elmo to check?
<pkern> bddebian: Or automate him? (o:
<bddebian> pkern: Well I had an option but he didn't like it ;-)
<pkern> bddebian: IRC highlights aren't the best choice?
<bddebian> pkern: Actually I've been e-mailing him :-)
<pkern> bddebian: Adding you with the necessary privileges? ;) Why are the syncs restricted like that anyway?
<pkern> elmo is busy at any job he's assigned to. And it seems that in most cases he's the only one with the privileges. (Like Debian Account Creation, but ok that's somewhat sensible anyway.)
<pkern> bddebian: Are uploads to universe directly installed there or do they need to get some sort of approval? (Either by a script or manually..)
* bddebian refuses to comment on the grounds that he may incriminate himself
<pkern> bddebian: "incriminate"? Why?
<slomo> pkern: NEW packages need approval by elmo, other stuff gets checked by a script (i.e. correct signature, what distribution, all files there with correct md5sums)
<pkern> slomo: Normal dak mechanisms then.
<pkern> slomo: Ok, that's normal then.
<slomo> yes
<pkern> slomo: But syncs are somewhat special?
<slomo> yes... they are pulled directly from debian, distrubtion is changed and it gets a new field "Origin: Debian/unstable"
<slomo> this field is there to allow automatic syncs in the future when debian gets a new version afaik
<pkern> slomo: But that's automated by a script anyway? Why can't developers just sign a request and send it as a command to the server? (Either via FTP or via mail)
<slomo> because nobody implemented it yet probably ;)
<ogra> pkern, because we want to keep some control, we have different freezez through a release cycle and not all packages come from debian
<ogra> i.e. currently there shouldnt be syncs or NEW packages without someone approving it, we are in preview freeze
<pkern> ogra: Does this affect universe already?
<ogra> its to make sure a second pait of eyes looks over it...
<ogra> pkern, yes
<pkern> ogra: NEW package judging is reasonably easy, but sync approval is somewhat time-consuming?
<pkern> ogra: Hm ok.
<ogra> but its handled very loosely by us
<pkern> ogra: I thought the buildds would FTBFS in most cases anyway when there's a problem. ;)
<ogra> normally everything gets approved... but the second look/asking for the common stuff is important
<ogra> yes, but if some user requests a newer version we try to react on this if it doesnt generate to much extra work or any extra breakage...
<ogra> its not always a buildd problem that causes a sync ;)
<ogra> s/buildd/build/
<ogra> has someone looked into xdm yet ? it seems not to work
<\sh> work?
<ogra> yes, some users mailed -users...
<ogra> i tried it, but had no time to look deeper into it... it starts an X server and crashes before the greeter comes up
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> bddebian: wth is this mail for?
<\sh> How about Dastardly Dingo for our Aussie friends? ;-)
<\sh> Barry deFreese (aka bddebian)
<\sh> Shiny New MOTU
<pkern> slomo: Still nothing new at the kernel front, right?
<\sh> lol
<\sh> I'm always surprised about barry *rotfl*
<slomo> pkern: nope :(
<pkern> slomo: *sigh*
<bddebian> \sh: :-)
<pkern> slomo: linux-source-2.6.12 then |:
<pkern> slomo: And a plain ol' own build.
<slomo> \sh: hehe, i was puzzled too :)
<slomo> pkern: we currently use linux-source-2.6.12... that's the kernel that fails ;)
<pkern> slomo: I mean the binary package (o:
<bddebian> \sh: Are you saying I'm a wierdo? ;-)
<Yagisan> Dingo ? I miss something ?
<\sh> bddebian: well...if I'm saying "you are a wierdo!" then, what I am?
* \sh needs an asylum after the release ,-)
<dholbach> ogra: you have atomix in edubuntu?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> why ? did you plan to break it ?
<bddebian> \sh: :-)
<bddebian> Yagisan: I sent another one of my goofy/useless e-mails to u-d mailing list
<dholbach> ogra: i just saw there was a new upstream version - and i didn't want to argue to get it in main ;)
<ogra> the current one is fine and stale... i'm not goig to risk my CD for a version numbering upgrade :)
<ogra> s/stale/stable/
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> I should get some tobacco and some crunching cracker
<bddebian> ??
<\sh> s/cracker/salty cookies/
<bddebian> Ahh  :-)
<\sh> and take my laptop go to bed and watch some "Lost"
<bddebian> \sh: Nice.  I have been trying to catch up on Season 1 :-)
<\sh> bddebian: I have it completly on DVD;)
<bddebian> Me too
* bddebian wonders if he should send ANOTHER sync request to elmo.. :-)
<Mitario> hi everyone
<bddebian> Heya Mitario
<dholbach> mitario!
<\sh> brb
<slomo> bbl
<bddebian> Gang, should I try to build gnunet against our libextractor (0.4.2-2) or sync libextractor (0.5.4) from Debian and build the new gnunet against that?
<dholbach> what does configure.{ac,in} want?
<slomo> first try the first and when it doesn't work look at everything that depends on libextractor and which may fail with the new version ;)
<bddebian> dholbach: libextractor only has 1 rdepend
<bddebian> err s/dholbach/slomo/
<bddebian> dholbach: It wants libextractor 0.4.2-4
<slomo> bddebian: and gnunet is this 1 rdepend?
<bddebian> slomo: No
<slomo> ok, anyway... dholbach can help you :)
<slomo> bbl
<dholbach> so what's going wrong?
<bddebian> libdoodle1-dev is the only rdepend for libextractor1-dev
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> \sh: i see you did libxdb
<dholbach> hey ivoks
<\sh> yes
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> \sh: i recall having problems with that lib
<\sh> ivoks: worked ;)
<ivoks> \sh: it compiled cleanly with gcc4?
<\sh> yes
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> hi dholbach bddebian
<\sh> finger training
<bddebian> dholbach: The current version has some build problems.  There is a -5 version in debian but it build-depends libextractor1-dev (>= 0.4.2-4) which we don't have :-)
<ivoks> \sh: anyway, that's obsolete lib :))
<\sh> oleo is depending on it
<ivoks> oleo is obsolete app :)
<dholbach> ah i see
<\sh> not for infinity ,-)
<dholbach> well if the stuff from debian just works, ...
<ivoks> \sh: there is no development for few years
<ivoks> infinity uses it? :)
<bddebian> SO I can either try to build the newer gnunet with our libextractor or ask for a sync of libextractor too :-)
<\sh> ivoks: it was on the frozenapps
<\sh> list
<ivoks> ah, ok
<\sh> and yehia and qpl will go away
<\sh> and infinity wants to have a look over ace
<ivoks> i proposed it for morgue in may, iirc :)
<ivoks> anyway, \sh great job!
<ivoks> if libxdb compiles :)
<bddebian> dholbach: Well libextractor 0.5.4 from Debian is taking FOREVER to build on my machine :-(
<\sh> ivoks: i386 for sure
<ogra> bddebian, as long as it stops before oct 13
<ivoks> bddebian: maybe it's doing buil, clean, buil, clean
<\sh> xdb on ia64 build
<ivoks> i had problems on amd64
<ivoks> big problems
<ivoks> anyway, great if it works
<\sh> ivoks: u know who the maintainer is?
<ivoks> don't recall
<ivoks> i just know that lib isn't developed any more under that name
<\sh> ivoks: our mvo ;)
<bddebian> Damn I have to put up another build machine at home.  1 just ain't enough :)
<ivoks> :))
<\sh> bddebian: a big fat one...and give me an account ,-)
<ivoks> hm...
<bddebian> \sh: I'm REALLY considering search for an amd64 box on sleaze-bay, then you got it ;-)
* ivoks will setup i386 if anyone wants to work on it? :)
<\sh> bddebian: amd64? ravel is amd64 ,-)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> we could use ppc, right?
<\sh> yes
<ivoks> maybe i could manage something
<bddebian> ivoks: I'm looking at old Blue and White G3's too ;-)
<ivoks> but that would be g3 or g4
* bddebian would LOVE a G5 :-)
<ivoks> bddebian: would you? :)
<ivoks> i have 10 G5s here :)
<bddebian> \sh: Yeah but I don't want to break someone elses machines ;-)
<bddebian> ivoks: REALLY??
<bddebian> bastage
<ivoks> bddebian: yup, we sell them
<\sh> bddebian: u can't break anything on ravel :) working only in a chroot ...which is nice :)
<\sh> ivoks: u r selling 7 G5s?
<ivoks> chroot will brake you, most of the time :)
<ivoks> \sh: not me, company in wich i work
<ivoks> \sh: more than 7 :)
<\sh> ivoks: no only 7 ;) 1 for bddebian, 1 for slomo and 1 for me ,-) the rest u can sell ,-)
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> Well I guess I'm tying up my machine with libextractor for the rest of the day.. :'-(
<bddebian> \sh: lol
<ivoks> then 5 for me :)
<ogra> edubuntu could really need a ppc test machine :)
<ivoks> lol
<\sh> makes only 6 to sell
<ivoks> what was i thinking
<ivoks> ante, shut up :)
<bddebian> \sh: I guess no one likes my Dingo idea ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: dapper drake +1 ,-)
<ivoks> \sh: these are ordered
* bddebian thinks dapper is dumb :-)
<\sh> ivoks: no excuses ,-)
<ivoks> macs are crappt things
<ogra> bddebian, argue with sabdfl about it :)
<ivoks> crappy
<bddebian> ogra: Uhm, no thanks :)
<ivoks> bddebian: ?
<ivoks> bddebian: why not?
<bddebian> ivoks: I used to run Debian on a blue and white G3 and it was nice
<ivoks> bddebian: me too
<\sh> ogra: u think mark will change the name to Barry DeFreese ? ,-)
<bddebian> ivoks: Because I really don't care that much about the name :-)
<bddebian> \sh: Heh
<Yagisan> I imagine a small dragon in a suit when I hear dapper drake, but that's just me
<ivoks> then i sold it as mail server :)
<ogra> \sh, lol
<bddebian> Yagisan: hehe
<ogra> Yagisan, drake != dragon
<ogra> a drake is a male duck, isnt it ?
<ivoks> well...
<\sh> yes
<ivoks> i camed, i said hello, now i have to go study...
<ivoks> bye folks
<Yagisan> ogra: drake - middle english = dragon
<ogra> aha... my dictionary doesnt speak middle english it seems :)
<\sh> ogra: dict.leo.org says also erpel
<\sh> or Bordwandgeschuetz
<ogra> lol
<ogra> \sh, so a dapper drake is a cannon on a ship shooting friendly fire ??
<\sh> ogra: I would translate dapper drake as "lebhaftes bordwandgeschuetz" ,-)
<ogra> lol
<\sh> or "Eleganter Erpel/Enterich"
<ogra> boring
<Yagisan> intresting, I just checked my wife's dictionary, drake is also a duck. I prefer my dragon in a suit
<\sh> depends what u see in "Dapper Drake" ,-)
<Yagisan> with cufflinks
<Yagisan> and bow tie
<Yagisan> and top hat etc etc
<\sh> but the best mail was "Dapper sounds in english like diaper" ,->
<Yagisan> north american accent ?
<\sh> dunno...
<\sh> but even with my bad english it doesn't sound like "diaper"
<\sh> or i'm to oxfored or cambridge
<\sh> oxford
<\sh> even
<Yagisan> if you stretch out the a into a long sound you might sound like diaper
<Yagisan> but you'd need a north american accent
* ogra wonders if oxford is oxforing... if you can get oxfored ...
<\sh> but this is more like "The Rain In Spain Stays Mainly On The Plaine" or something like this..Pygmalion/My Fair Lady quoting
<\sh> ogra: hehe
<\sh> ogra: btw...u have a irc client on edubuntu?
<\sh> ogra: u see that #ubuntu-motu is also education ;)
<ogra> \sh, we have a default ubuntu desktop
<ogra> with all apps included
<Yagisan> what age group is ebubuntu targeted at ?
<\sh> 90 -> 5/6?
<ogra> 6-16
<\sh> ogra: bug gcompris is also something for 34 ,-)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ah and xdb build on all archs ;-9
<Yagisan> ok. it's for a bit older then my little girl then
<\sh> how old?
<ogra> Yagisan, we also have younger kids playing with it...
<Yagisan> 18 months
<ogra> ok, thats a bit young still :)
<Yagisan> I have been teacher her to use the computer
<\sh> oh that's really young ;)
<Yagisan> teaching
<ogra> but she can benefit form y future release at least ;)
<ogra> s/y/a
<Yagisan> she can "play" deng with doom2.wad level one
<ivoks> there is no gnome-printer-add any more?
<\sh> ok gentlemen...I'm lazy today...will go and watch some movies :)
<\sh> g'night or eventually laters :)
<bddebian> Later \sh
<Yagisan> goodnight
<dholbach> have a nice evening everybody, see you tomorrow
<tseng> bye dholbach
<bddebian> Later dholbach
<shawarma> ivoks: I'm working on the mms plugin.. it's kind of annoying... Well, it involves enabled a plugin in the gstreamer package which is in main and also adding a new package (libmms).
<shawarma> ivoks: I'll have it ready in half an hour or so.
<shawarma> Arh, I did it again. Why does he always log off before I have a chance to write him?
<ogra> http://www.i-r-genius.com/badger.gif
<tseng> ogra: yes.
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> ogra: :-)
<bddebian> Holy shit, libextractor compile is finally moving...
<shawarma> Can someone give me a crash course in what to do with debian/shlibs ?
<bddebian> Fix them? ;-)
<shawarma> Heh.... What is it for exactly? Is that where the info that links the -dev packages to the lib-packages?
<bddebian> shawarma: Somewhat.  It helps with depends
<shawarma> Ok... I have an idea about it providing the info needed for dh_shlibs to figure out that if you build-depends on something-dev, you need libsomething..
<shawarma> Is that just about right?
<abarbaccia> hey all - who maintains the mythtv packages?
<shawarma> abarbaccia: mdz, i think.
<abarbaccia> mythtv is the new version but hte plugins are not - they need to be packaged for breezy
<shawarma> bddebian: I'm still not sure how to use it, though.
<bddebian> abarbaccia: We are waiting for the 0.18 plugins afaik
<bddebian> shawarma: What are you trying to do?
<abarbaccia> gotcha - thanks bddebian
<bddebian> abarbaccia: NP
<shawarma> bddebian: Well... I've created a new library package, and another package is going to build-depends on the -dev package, and I want the !-dev package to automatically be added to the depends...
<abarbaccia> bddebian, im just waiting anxiously to upgrade my myth boxes and update my website on how to do that
<bddebian> shawarma: Then yes, afaiui build dep the -dev and shlibs should make it a depends.  I think :-)
<shawarma> But what should the shlibs file contain?
<shawarma> Never mind, I'll just copy one from some other package.. That should do the trick.
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> ajmitch: conky got synced
<ajmitch> good
* ajmitch doesn't really have time to follow up on much at the moment :(
<bddebian> Loser ;-)
<ajmitch> yes, I am
<chillywilly> hi
<chillywilly> be nice bddebian
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, any idea why we have libobby and not gobby yet?
<ajmitch> because I've been too busy to get gobby build-deps fixed & upload it?
<bddebian> Later gents, gotta head home
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, ah, ok.
<ajmitch> I've been told by work to cut back on my outside activities for at least a couple of weeks while I get stuff finished :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, ouch
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, where do you work?
<ajmitch> I work as a php coder
<ajmitch> got deadlines looming
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: you haven't been procrastinating have you ?? :)
<slomo> ree
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-20
<tseng> bradb: the new team page makes more sense, thanks.
<bradb> tseng: don't thank me for that, it was probably mpt or salgado. ;) i've got some major treats for you guys currently in the code review phase
<tseng> :)
<tseng> elite
<ajmitch> bradb: good to hear
* ajmitch looks for what's different about teams
<ajmitch> interesting, tickets?
<tseng> the item says Edit Team vs View Team or something
<ajmitch> right
<tseng> which is part of what pissed me off
<ajmitch> man, the actions menu when I look at my page on LP is busy
* ajmitch will bbl
<bddebian> Anyone know if the tinyurl.com/btwff link in the top is still valid/important?
<tseng> sh would
<bddebian> OK, thx tseng
<bddebian> crimsun: ping?
<bddebian> Heya jaldhar
<bddebian> jaldhar: You're in Jersey?
<bddebian> Anyone have a problem with me syncing libnjb 2-2.1 from Debian?
<mbreit> good night everyone
<tseng> bye
<bddebian> Later mbr... whoops
<bddebian> Ice cream time..
<jaldhar> bddebian: still there?  In reference to your question, yes I'm still in NJ, Jersey City to be precise
<bddebian> jaldhar: Ah cool, I'm in Philly area
<LaserJock> is there a way to list all of the packages installed on a system that belong to a certian group (Graphics, Mathematics, Editors, etc)?
<slomo_> bddebian: yes
<slomo_> bddebian: don't sync it
<bddebian> slomo_: OK
<slomo_> do you want a reason? ;)
<bddebian> Nope, I'll take your word.  I gotta go watch "Lost" :-)
<slomo_> well... you get the reason anyway :P
<slomo_> it will break everything depending on it..
<slomo_> because of different package name
<slomo_> libnjb5 vs libnjb4 (what we have now)
<slomo_> probably just a rebuild for everything but i don't want to mess with it for breezy... maybe someone else wants ;)
<lamont> hrm... still no moritorium on uploads, right?
<bmonty> LaserJock: ping
<crimsun> bddebian: pong
<bddebian> crimsun: Have you tried vlc 8.4 from unstable ?
<crimsun> bddebian: I'm still merging it
<crimsun> it will only compile on i386, which does no good for ppc and amd64
<bddebian> crimsun: That's 8.2
<crimsun> bddebian: sid is 8.4+svn
<bddebian> Aye, but the one on MoM is 8.2
<bddebian> So you are working with the 8.4?
<crimsun> yes :)
<bddebian> OK
<crimsun> remember I asked elmo for an 8.4+svn sync mistakenly ;)
<bddebian> Oh, I didn't know that :-)
<crimsun> back in a bit :)
<bddebian> Man this shit is sooo frustrating
<jsgotangco> hi all
<ajmitch> hello jsgotangco
<schweeb> ajmitch: omg you awake
<ajmitch> schweeb: yes, and?
<schweeb> ajmitch: just making sure
<schweeb> what's up
<schweeb> since I missed about all of Breezy's development.... I need to be more active in the next release
<schweeb> I blame my complacence on my job
<ajmitch> meh
<ajmitch> I'm still at work at the moment
<ajmitch> I've hardly done anything on breezy
<schweeb> yea... work cut all my access
<ajmitch> ouch
<schweeb> no AIM even.... through chrysler
<schweeb> once EDS gives me the proper accounts, I get AIM back
<ajmitch> no ip over dns? :)
<schweeb> I haven't tried DNS
<ajmitch> but https will be blocked, I guess
<schweeb> I tried SSH over HTTPS... but SSH sends a version in its first packet
<schweeb> and they block SSh
<schweeb> it sends opensshx.xx or some shit
<schweeb> and the app layer proxy sees it
<schweeb> and says fuck you
<schweeb> we have no public DNS access w/o the proxy anyways
<schweeb> only internal DNS
<ajmitch> corkscrew..
<schweeb> which kinda ends the DNS option
<schweeb> the proxy resolves all addys
<Lathiat> you should be able to use corkscrew to ssh out on port 443
<Lathiat> as thats needed for SSL so allowed on nearly all proxies
<schweeb> I'll have to check out corkscrew...
<Lathiat> try telnet to yoru proxy
<Lathiat> and go
<Lathiat> CONNECT yourhost.com:443 HTTP/1.1
<schweeb> but I used to use a tunneling script before...
<schweeb> and they killed it
<Lathiat> if that works
<Lathiat> you can open ssh on port 443
<Lathiat> then ssh through it
<ajmitch> corkscrew is great, actually :)
<Lathiat> tunnel to whatever
<Lathiat> with corkscrew
<ajmitch> ppp over ssh over https ;)
<Lathiat> ssh -o "ProxyCommand corkscrew proxyhost proxyport %h %p"
<Lathiat> ajmitch: haha
<schweeb> I used to use similar, Lathiat
<ajmitch> you'd be lucky to get 4 K/sec with that combo
<schweeb> I forget the script's name
<schweeb> but it tunneled over SSl
<schweeb> and is fairly well known
<ajmitch> httptunnel?
<schweeb> yea
<schweeb> think so maybe
<schweeb> the problem is that SSH sends the identifier in its header, which normal SSL apps don't
<Lathiat> wah?
* Lathiat used to do 150K/s + with that setup
<ajmitch> Lathiat: ppp on top as well? :)
<Lathiat> uh no
<ajmitch> ssh over https is quick enough
<Lathiat> but even with ppp itd work fine
<ajmitch> nah
<Lathiat> i used to use openvpn
<Lathiat> rather than ppp
<ajmitch> tcp over tcp is never healthy
<Lathiat> it worked fine ;)
<Lathiat> it wasnt a really lossy link or anyhthing
<ajmitch> slowdowns in the bottom tcp layer cause greater slowdowns further up
<Lathiat> so it wasnt totally killing it
<ajmitch> gar, can't close a bug in malone, where has the edit link gone?
<ajmitch> I see, they put it on the distro/product name
<ajmitch> how irritating
<pef> hello
<dholbach> good morning
<pef> dholbach: good morning daniel
<dholbach> hey loic! how's it going?
<pef> dholbach: seeking for a job, not very easy :/ and  I try to fix remaining GL transitions packages, some of them have weird diff.gz, with autotools-dev stuff inside :/ have to delete stuff from them to have .diff smaller than 20k :)
<dholbach> check what they did to Makefile.am or configure.ac to be sure to know WHAT they changed - the rest is just generated stuff
<dholbach> i hope the best for you... hope you find a nice job soon
<dholbach> pef: bon courage! :)
<pef> dholbach: merci :] 
<hunger> Good morning everybody.
<dholbach> hey hunger
<shawarma> Question:  Can new packages be added to the archive now? Just because they can't be included in Breezy, they can still be in the archive waiting for the next release... Or do we want to keep the archive clean until after the release?
<dholbach> the archive is warty, hoary, breezy, there is nothing else
<dholbach> elmo's NEW queue is not the archive :)
<dholbach> but we may still get stuff in, although our priorities are clear: fix existing stuff
<dholbach> but if there's something out there that will change the users world, there is still time to get it in good shape for release
<shawarma> Well, this involves a adding a package to universe, having it moved to main, and applying a patch to main... I don't really see that happening, although being able to play mms:// urls out of the box would be nice for the users.
<dholbach> are you sure it positively needs to be in main?
<hunger> dholbach: How about scribus 1.3? It is supposed to be a huge step forwartd.
<shawarma> dholbach: Yes.
<shawarma> dholbach: gstreamer is going to depend on it.
<dholbach> hunger: if you kindly investigate, if it 1) builds with our build-dependencies, 2) not introduces millions of untested features, 3) has no major other problems, 4) hopefully fixes old stuff, we may consider it
<dholbach> shawarma: not the other way round?
<shawarma> dholbach: Nope.
<dholbach> i suggest you talk about that to the gstreamer maintainer
<hunger> dholbach: I can try... within the limits of the non-network world my ubuntu has to live in:-(
<shawarma> dholbach: It's libmms, which provides mms:// functionality. gstreamer needs it to provide that functionality in its framework.
<dholbach> what about a mms package, which provides libmms and gstreamer-plugin0.8-mms?
<shawarma> dholbach: I will. Could we rush it into universe so I could move it along to main, if they say go?
<shawarma> dholbach: It COULD be done, but it's really stupid to have the same source package in both main and universe just with different makefiles..
<dholbach> shawarma: i'm not the gstreamer maintainer, so my answer might be ... erm ... misleading :)
<shawarma> dholbach: I mean libmms.
<shawarma> dholbach: It's in REVU.
<shawarma> dholbach: Uploaded yesterday.
<pef> dholbach: can you try to build poker3d with my debdiff in pbuilder ?
<dholbach> pef: erm, why? :)
<dholbach> pef: does it build for you?
<dholbach> pef: i'm currently on i386 only
<dholbach> shawarma: you could file a wishlist bug
<hunger> dholbach: Oh, just noticed that scribus 1.3 is a development version.
<dholbach> hunger: ah ok
<shawarma> dholbach: I'll have a quick chat with the gstreamer maintainer..
<hunger> dholbach: But a new 1.2 minor release is out...
<pef> dholbach: Nafallo has an error I can't get :)
<dholbach> shawarma: super
<pef> dholbach: and yes, it builds for me
<dholbach> pef: which architecture is he on?
<hunger> Hmmm... debian does not have that one yet.
<pef> dholbach: I haven't asked to him, good idea :)
<hunger> But then it was released only yesterday:-)
<shawarma> dholbach: Oh, just a thought... I haven't tested in on neither amd64 nor ppc, and I don't have access to either..
<shawarma> dholbach: I'd feel stupid asking to have somthing moved to main that doesn't even work on amd64.
<dholbach> shawarma: i suppose we will get it tested beforehand
<shawarma> dholbach: Do we (MOTU) have the infrastructure to test it? I'd like it to be as polished as possible before submitting it to main..
<dholbach> shawarma: if you ask guys to kindly test it, we have some guys with ppc and amd64
<dholbach> pef_aw: where is your debdiff? i'll give it a spin
<pef_aw> dholbach: Makefile.in is generated stuff, isn't it ?
<pef_aw> dholbach: http://dev.erodia.net/ubuntu/MOTUGLUTransition/poker3d_0.2.12-1ubuntu3.debdiff
<dholbach> pef_aw: only if there's a Makefile.am or Makefile.in.in or osmething
<pef_aw> mm ok, thanks
<pef_aw> dholbach: the diff's size is 1.2M oO
<shawarma> dholbach: Oh,right.
<dholbach> nice
<pef_aw> I have to leave to find a job :) later !
<dholbach> pef_aw: got my /query?
<pef_aw> yes
<dholbach> super
<pitti> Hi folks
<pitti> could anybody please have a look at the affix FTBFS? the new version fixes a security hole
<Lathiat> mmm
<ajmitch> hey Lathiat, pitti
<Lathiat> pitti: weird
<Lathiat> pitti: it built fine here
<pitti> Lathiat: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/affix/2.1.2-3/
<pitti> hi ajmitch
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> oh yes
<Lathiat> built fine
<Lathiat> pitti: yeh i read it
<Lathiat> but it builds so...
* Lathiat puzzles
<Lathiat> perhaps affix-kernel wasnt built first?
<Lathiat> try a give-back?
<pitti> Lathiat: we can do this, yes
<Lathiat> hrm affix-kernel is old tho, weird
<ajmitch> gah, \sh uploaded the python-imdbpy *crack*
<Lathiat> tseng: ping
<herzi> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> herzi: pong
<herzi> who do i ask to sync a package with debian?
<dholbach> James Troup (aka elmo) does syncs
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> hey \sh
<herzi> is launchpad terribly slow atm?
<\sh> got up too late...damn
<dholbach> i'm out for lunch
<dholbach> see you
<\sh> cu dholbach
<\sh> Nafallo: ping what was the page for dotUbuntu proposal ?
<\sh> checking for GL/GLwMDrawA.h... no
<\sh> checking for X11/GLw/GLwMDrawA.h... no
<\sh> configure: error: *** Unable to locate GLwM includes.
<\sh> argl
<ajmitch> \sh: was python-imdbpy put back in the unmet deps list at some point?
<\sh> ajmitch: not that I know off...but i can check
* ajmitch was redoing those packages to be somewhat closer to sane
<\sh> no
<\sh> not there anymore
<ajmitch> that's because you uploaded them :P
<ajmitch> the packages were a mess, to put it gently ;)
<\sh> many packages are messy ;)
<\sh> we have to take a look to those python packages with 2.1/2.2 binary packages..that's why they come back to unmet deps
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> these were imported from apt-get.org
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> ok guys I need this file GLwMDrawA.h
<\sh> but it's not in any libgl* package anymore
<ajmitch> what are you trying to build?
<\sh> grass
<ogra> grass is broken ?
<ogra> damned
<ogra> !!!
<\sh> yes
<\sh> the includes are missing
<ogra> \sh, i promised uli it would be there...grmpf...
<\sh> and they were in xlibmesa-gl-dev
<ogra> \sh, he wants to use it at the office
<ogra> \sh, best to ask daniels i guess
<\sh> think so
<\sh> which TZ?
<ogra> \sh, melbourne
<Lathiat> hmm, indeeed it should be in libgl1-mesa-dev as it was in xlibmesa-gl-dev
<\sh> I'm writing an email
<\sh> mail send to daniels
<\sh> ogra: I make sure it will be there in time ;)
<ogra> \sh, i'll tell uli, so he can pay you in coffee ;)
<\sh> ogra: hehe :) coffee is free anyways ;)
<ogra> ok, beer then
<\sh> no beer during work ;)
<Lathiat> heh
<mbreit> okay guys, i have a problem which i can't solve... so i need your help....
<ajmitch> yes?
<mbreit> i fixed the ardour package... it builds fine on my pbuilder
<mbreit> but it does not on the buildds...
<\sh> log?
<mbreit> the problem is "Checking for C header file alsa/asoundlib.h... no"
<mbreit> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/ardour/0.9beta29-5ubuntu1/ardour_0.9beta29-5ubuntu1_20050915-1312-i386-failed.gz
<mbreit> that header is in libasound2-dev, which the buildd installed correctly before building
<mbreit> in my pbuilder, it says "Checking for C header file alsa/asoundlib.h... yes", same libasound2-dev version
<\sh> broken scons ?
<mbreit> i have no idea..
<\sh> scons is evil
<mbreit> the line in SConstruct says "if conf.CheckCHeader('alsa/asoundlib.h'):
<mbreit> "
<mbreit> that sounds right to me (and works well here)
<\sh> grmpf..i need to go shopping
<mbreit> any idea for my problem?
<\sh> checking
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> ask lamont/infinity what could be wrong with the buildd
<mbreit> hmm... okay... thanks anyway \sh!
<\sh> I don't see anything wrong
<mbreit> let's see what infinity will have to say
<\sh> going shopping
<\sh> bbl
<mbreit> \sh_away: have fun ;)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, Hi !
<dholbach> hi fabio
<thesaltydog> things are going weel? What about your thesis?
<thesaltydog> s/weel/well/
<Treenaks> argh, people bringing up autopackage again
<Treenaks> @ wiki
<ajmitch> yay
<Treenaks> ajmitch: the /BOFs page
<Treenaks> even
<dholbach> thesaltydog: i finished it, thanks :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: oh no
<thesaltydog> dholbach, ok. Well done!
<Treenaks> ajmitch: exactly
<ajmitch> I know that will get rejected long before UBZ starts
<dholbach> thesaltydog: thank you :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, did you get my mail?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: about baobab?
<thesaltydog> yes
<dholbach> thesaltydog: sorry, if i didn't answer, if i daresay, i was way to busy the last days
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I imagine. I am following all the busy things you and the others are doing..
<dholbach> thanks for understanding
<thesaltydog> dholbach, maybe for the future can I be of any help?
<ogra> thesaltydog, become a MOTU ;)
<dholbach> thesaltydog: sure... this channel is exactly where you need to ask :-)
<thesaltydog> ciao Oliver..
<ogra> :)
<thesaltydog> ogra, will you then send me a medal?
<ajmitch> thesaltydog: if you're free this weekend, we have a bug day on saturday
<ogra> thesaltydog, sure ;)
<thesaltydog> ajmitch, I will be there. Time?
<ajmitch> all day
<ajmitch> 48 hours ;)
<thesaltydog> ogra, ahh. oh, I'm feeling better...:-)
<thesaltydog> ajmitch, I'll be there
* ajmitch will be the first to be in saturday
<ajmitch> great, thanks
<dholbach> :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> hey BARRY
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<mbreit> hey bddebian
<mbreit> oh, and hi daniel ;)
<dholbach> hey moritz
<thesaltydog> ciao everybody. see you all on sat'day.
<mbreit> dholbach: did you read about my ardour-problem?
<dholbach> ardour?
<mbreit> dholbach: scroll up a bit ;)
<bddebian> Hello Daniel, Andrew, Moritz
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> mbreit: sorry, no idea, try in #ubuntu-devel
<mbreit> dholbach: i will do that, i wait for infinity to talk to him... sounds like a buildd issue for me
<mbreit> i just hoped that you have any idea ;)
<dholbach> sorry :-/
<mbreit> np... thanks for looking at it ;)
<bddebian> OK gang, I need a general strategy direction here.  For neutrino, there are a ton of gcc errors in the current version.  The new version works fine but needs a newer libnjb which has several rdepends.  Do I try to force build with gcc-3.4 or the cflags for less strict checks, what???
<dholbach> any patches in bugs.debian.org?
<dholbach> any patches upstream?
<slomo_> nope, i also looked at that package ;)
<slomo_> seems like we should sync libnjb, recompile all rdepends and sync neutrino
<lifeless> a/win 18
* ajmitch needs sleep, see you all tomorrow (or later today :) )
<\sh> cu ajmitch
<\sh> back from shopping *phew*
<shawarma> Could I pursuade a couple of MOTUs to take a peek at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=574  ?  There is a chance (although slim) that it might make it into main in time for Breezy, but it kind of needs to be in universe before that..
<\sh> shawarma: in main? u joking :)
<shawarma> \sh: Nope.
<HiddenWolf> shawarma, main is locked down tight, and has been for weeks.
<shawarma> \sh: seb128 told me it MIGHT.
<\sh> into universe yes...but main?
<shawarma> \sh: Yes. Because gstreamer will depend on it.
<HiddenWolf> shawarma, not even new upstream versions, let alone new packages...
<HiddenWolf> siretart, you around?
<shawarma> HiddenWolf: Don't shoot the messenger. :-)
<HiddenWolf> shawarma, just restating some quite factual information.
<shawarma> HiddenWolf: Hey, I was just as surprised as you.
<HiddenWolf> We're in both upstreamversion- and feature/stringfreeze at the moment...
<\sh> getting the infos directly from source ,-)
<shawarma> I asked seb128 quite directly if it was out of the question and he wasn't sure. No offense, but I'll trust him more than any of you when it comes to this.
<shawarma> He is - after all - the gstreamer maintainer.
<\sh> shawarma: but he's not mdz
<\sh> and mdz decides
<shawarma> Ok..
<HiddenWolf> shawarma, he maintains a lot more than that. The ones who decide are mdz and sabdfl tho.
<shawarma> Yesyes.
<shawarma> anyhow, never mind that. The only thing that is 100% certain is that it won't go into main if it isn't in universe..
<\sh> but if he needs it he could push it directly into universe without us
<shawarma> \sh: Hmm... I suppose.
<\sh> shawarma: I will discuss this issue with him :)
<shawarma> \sh: Cool.
<lamont__> dpkg --contents hebcal_3.4-2build1_i386.deb | grep dir.gz
<lamont__> -rw-r--r-- root/root      1432 2005-07-08 19:49:29 ./usr/share/info/dir.gz
<lamont__> *thwap*
<slomo_> shawarma: thanks for packaging libmms :) i had this on my todo list for dapper
<\sh> lamont__: what's dir.gz? ,-)
<lamont__> a file that should not be delivered (iz RC bug)
<lamont__> autocrap droppings
<slomo_> shawarma: i'll take a look at it
<shawarma> slomo_: No problem. I helped develop the damn thing, so it's only fair that I package it, too. :-)
<\sh> lamont__: but u tried to move it away ;)
<slomo_> shawarma: please remove README.Debian or put content in it... and in changelog remove the ITP stuff, we have no ITP ;)
<slomo_> shawarma: raise standards-version to 3.6.2
<bddebian> slomo_, dholbach: Sorry, I had to step out for a minute but I don't see a decision ;-)
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> bddebian: 15:57 < slomo_> seems like we should sync libnjb, recompile all rdepends and sync neutrino
<bddebian> \sh: seems like <> Let's do ;-)
<slomo_> shawarma: use the original tarball... this one has at least a different md5sum
<\sh> bddebian: libnjb4 ?
<slomo_> \sh: yes... and it's libnjb5 now ;) that's part of the problem
<bddebian> Where is libnjb5 coming from?
<slomo_> shawarma: include the full 3 paragraphs of the LGPL like in the source files in debian/copyright
<slomo_> bddebian: renamed binary package... so it is probably incompatible to the old one
<bddebian> Oh, nm
<slomo_> bddebian: please test if it works ;)
<bddebian> slomo_: Have you happened to look at the rdepends for libnjb?  Are any of them in main?
<\sh> only 3
<slomo_> bddebian: none is... because libnjb is in universe and main stuff must not depend on universe
<\sh> and if libnjb4 is in universe, nothing in main can depend on universe stuff
<bddebian> Well that doesn't seem to be the case for lirc :-)
<\sh> bddebian: where do u see lirc ?
<slomo_> shawarma: please add something like upstream author to the copyright file... best with contact address ;)
<\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/packages/breezy/hebcal/hebcal-3.4/debian$ apt-cache rdepends libnjb4
<\sh> libnjb4
<\sh> Reverse Depends: libnjb-dev kzenexplorer gnomad2
<bddebian> Aye
<\sh> so only two packages
<shawarma> slomo_: Argh, I reran dh_make at one point.. that must have overwritten some stuff it shouldn't have..
<shawarma> slomo_: I'll fix those things right away. gimme 5 minutes.
<\sh> bddebian: or is your package using libnjb1?
<bddebian> \sh: My package? ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: neutrino ;)
<slomo_> shawarma: ok... notify me then :) i'll wait for you ;)
<slomo_> \sh: nope... it needs the newest one ;)
<bddebian> \sh: libnjb-dev (>> 2.2)
<\sh> so 4 .. well...
<\sh> bddebian: check libnjb5 with neutrino ;)
<\sh> and the rest ,-)
<slomo_> \sh: and the fixed version in debian needs 5 ;)
<bddebian> Oh aye
* bddebian is getting confused ;-)
<\sh> slomo_: ok...we have 1+4 why not 5 as add package
<\sh> and if kzenexplorer and gnomad2 are running with 5 as well, drop 4
<bddebian> \sh: I was thinking that too.  But all of them have libnjb-dev right?  Would we have to have libnjb5-dev?
<slomo_> \sh: 4 will be dropped automatically ;) that's the problem...
<\sh> slomo_: conflicts/replaces?
<slomo_> \sh: the source package that generated 4 generates now 5
<\sh> argl
<slomo_> \sh: well, it will stay but without source package for it...
<bddebian> I'll test them
<\sh> what crap is it ...
<slomo_> bddebian: most probably all will work with 5... it's just a jump from 2.1 to 2.2 iirc
<bddebian> Yes
<slomo_> \sh: i think libmss in main would be fine for breezy... but when it doesn't get in main i'll add the plugin to gst-plugins-multiverse so nothing is lost ;)
<\sh> slomo_: this is out of question...the thing is...if sebastian _needs_ it for breezy he could push it without questioning us
<slomo_> he doesn't _need_ it... it would just be nice to have it ;)
<slomo_> and it doesn't create problems
<\sh> ok...so lets push it into universe and into multiverse plugins :)
<slomo_> and if someone really wants... we can ask elmo to put the binary package in universe ;)
<sh_warma> \slomo The new version has been uploaded..
<slomo_> sh_warma: thanks... i'll take a look
<\sh> lamont__: dir.gz is `info` stuff hmmm....
<lamont__> \sh: and built on the final install, not delivered with 40+ packages......
<lamont__> since files can only be delivered by one package (unless it conficts and/or replaces the other)
<\sh> lamont__: yes...because the package does something wrong
<\sh> lamont__: dh_installinfo is not called e.g.
<lamont__> \sh: could be... likewise, it could just be autocrap movement under it...
<\sh> lamont__: I'm investigating in my chroot ,)
<lamont__> danke
<\sh> install-info(/home/shermann/packages/breezy/hebcal/hebcal-3.4/debian/hebcal/usr/share/info/hebcal.info): no  file /home/shermann/packages/breezy/hebcal/hebcal-3.4/debian/hebcal/usr/share/info/dir, retrieving backup file /var/backups/infodir.bak.
<\sh> in the Makefile stuff...grmpf..
<shawarma> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=575
<slomo_> shawarma: already have it on my hdd ;)
<shawarma> slomo_: Huh?
<shawarma> slomo_: How? It only just showed up?
<slomo_> shawarma: got it from incoming ;) ok, another problem... is this already in debian/unstable?
<shawarma> slomo_: Don't think so.
<shawarma> slomo_: I actually didn't check.
<slomo_> shawarma: then use -0ubuntu1 as version and breezy as distribution (not unstable)
<\sh> lamont__: I could disable the doc/ creation stuff in Makefile.am and prevent it from building...and installing the info file from rules file...
<lamont__> or just remove dir.gz after the install step finishes...
<\sh> lamont__: I tried it already...didn't help
<\sh> dir.gz dir.old.gz
<slomo_> shawarma: isn't in debian yet... so when you want to keep maintainership fill an debian ITP later and search someone to sponsor it... otherwise it can happen that someone else packages it for debian and we just sync his version
<\sh> una momenta
<lamont__> \sh: both files. :-)
<shawarma> slomo_: Hmm... Should I just change the version or should I add an 1: epoch?
<\sh> lamont__: I deleted dir.gz, but it appeared in the package
<shawarma> slomo_: As long as it's just in REVU it shouldn't matter, should it?
<lamont__> \sh: suckage.
<slomo_> shawarma: no epoch
<slomo_> shawarma: epochs are evil ;)
<\sh> lamont__: yes..
<shawarma> slomo_: Right. but if it had already been in the archive I would have had to add and epoch, wouldn't I?
<slomo_> shawarma: just change the version to -0ubuntu1... revu can handle uploads of the same version over and over again, even older versions... it just takes the upload time
<\sh> grmpf moment
<slomo_> shawarma: yes... probably
<mbreit> lamont__: perhaps you can help me with my ardour problem?
<shawarma> slomo_: There. Uploaded. I have to run. Catch you later!
<slomo_> shawarma: ok, i'll post comments on the revu page :)
<lamont__> mbreit: perhaps... what's the issue?
<\sh> lamont__: it's gone ;) after install it's called dir/dir.old not dir.gz/dir.old.gz ;)
<\sh> lamont__: uploading
<lamont__> \sh: heh
<lamont__> thanks
<mbreit> lamont__: FTBFS on all buildds, but builds fine in pbuilder... the error is that scons can't find alsa/asoundlib.h although the right libasound2-dev is installed
<lamont__> mbreit: at the time of the build, 'SYSMIDI' did not exist in the environment
<\sh> lamont__: np
<lamont__> ah, ok
<mbreit> lamont__: that's because it did not find alsa/asoundlib.h
<lamont__> mbreit: and what does config.log say there.
<lamont__> mbreit: and since it works for you in pbuilder, you can't answer that... got it.
<mbreit> lamont__: right ;)
<mbreit> lamont__: the file /usr/include/alsa/asoundlib.h is in package libasound2-dev and it seems that buildd installed the same version as my pbuilder
<lamont__> mbreit: kinda burried for the next few hours, but I can put it on my list for tonight and see what I can find.
<mbreit> lamont__: that would be nice! thanks!
<lamont__> alternatively, you could poke infinity and see how his schedule looks for the next several hours...
<mbreit> lamont__: i tried to ping him, but he did not answer
<lamont__> np
<lamont__> mbreit: --> busy, I expect
<lamont__> or asleep
<lamont__> given that it's 0-dark-04 there.
<mbreit> yes, i expected something like that ;)
<\sh> lamont__: on amd64 buildd The following packages have unmet dependencies: glade-2: Depends: glade-common-2 (= 2.12.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<\sh> lamont__: from yesterday...I don't know if this is resolved but if so..please give-back gtk-gnutella on amd64/ia64/ppc
<\sh> lamont__: thx :)
<\sh>  /addtodo couple of beers for lamont+infinity for their great work
<lamont__> \sh: if it fails again, I can look at _why_ they're unresolved later (like several hours)
<lamont__> that is, given-back, need to go heads down and ignore irc for a few hours.
<\sh> lamont__: np :) I know that it has to build on amd64 et all...:)
<\sh> lamont__: thx :)
<\sh> now I have to bribe daniels to build GLw stuff again for grass ... so I can hold on to my word towards ogra and ogra can hold on his word towards uli
<bddebian> Heh
<jsgotangco> hi \sh you seem to be the gajim guru, does it only do jabber?
<\sh> bddebian: this is mafia style ;-)
<\sh> jsgotangco: yes..which is good :)
<jsgotangco> \sh: ah thought i can do y!m as well...its really nice...
<\sh> jsgotangco: but jabber can do icq,msn,aim,yahoo,irc,muc,jud,rss etc.pp. depends which services are provided by the jabber server
<slomo_> \sh: libmms is almost perfect ;)
<jsgotangco> ohhh so its server dependent
<\sh> jsgotangco: yes...
<\sh> jsgotangco: http://www.jabber.org/network/ <- a list of jabber servers worldwide with all the services
<\sh> jsgotangco: actually I don't have yahoo messenger...because it's a bit tricky to install the software...not that I don't want it, but I didn't have the time to build it for hoary/breezy...but it will come
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<jsgotangco> ok will check thanks
<\sh> jsgotangco: my jabber server I'm talking about ;)
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> i have a demo at linuxworld tommorow, might pimp it
<jsgotangco> i actually like it
<bddebian> \sh: Mafia style? :-)
<slomo_> \sh: did you already update the icq transport?
<\sh> jsgotangco: would be nice :) please right a blog entry with some pictures :)
<\sh> slomo_: argl ;)
<\sh> bddebian: cosanostra ;) italian family ;) the godfather style ,-)
<slomo_> \sh: hehe i know... no time ;) i don't get to anything currently too =)
<bddebian> \sh: I know whay you mean, I just didn't get the context :-)
<\sh> bddebian: bribing ;)
<jsgotangco> \sh: of course thanks
<bddebian> Ahhh ;-)
<\sh> aeh
<\sh> s/right/write/ ,-)
<\sh> my thoughts are faster then my fingers ,-)
<\sh> slomo_: http://modevia.com/pipermail/py-transports/2005-March/000323.html <- i think i have no luck
<slomo_> \sh: why? it's from Thu Mar 17 14:43:51 GMT 2005
<bddebian> Hmm, kzenexplorer doesn't show up in Debian
<\sh> slomo_: yes...but no new version available...I'll have to test svn
<slomo_> \sh: hm ok... when will you test it? i can be your versuchskaninchen for testing it ;)
<\sh> slomo_: I have to setup a new transport for this...and enable it in ejabberd...
<\sh> slomo_: i don't want to screw the running transport
<\sh> brb
<slomo_> ok
<slomo_> bddebian: ?
<slomo_> bddebian: err... have you tested it already? ;)
<bddebian> slomo_: libnjb and neutrino are fine
<bddebian> Getting ready to test the rdepends
<slomo_> bddebian: ok fine :) sounds good
<tseng> Lathiat: pong
<\sh> lamont__: gtk-gnutella...amd64/ia64 OK, but PPC failed with a strange error message...(http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gtk-gnutella/0.95.4-1/gtk-gnutella_0.95.4-1_20050915-1635-powerpc-given-back.gz)
<\sh> and now...building grass without glw
<\sh> and trying out an upstream bugfix
<Gervystar> is there still something blocking the upload of the fixed network-manager package (the one in revu)?
<bddebian> w00t kznetexplorer builds
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo_> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> yipieeh! i ha my last computer science exam today :)
<Amaranth> gtg
<sistpoty> 1.7 :)))
<\sh> sistpoty: congrats :)
<sistpoty> thx
<\sh> sistpoty: now for the real work ;)
<slomo_> sistpoty: congrats :)
<slomo_> sistpoty: so now you can do the haskell stuff while i'm learning for my exams ;)
<dholbach> WOW, ROCK! :)
<sistpoty> thx
<sistpoty> well i still got "nebenfach" todo
<sistpoty> slomo_: hm... is ghc6 there for all arches? i can't see a successful buildlog for ia64...
<slomo_> sistpoty: no idea... for x86, amd64 and ppc it is there... and i fixed some haskell stuff already, some other needs more work and time i don't have currently ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: forget about ia64 right now ;)
<sistpoty> ok, then I'll update the transition page ;)
<\sh> fixing grass now...
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<\sh> grass-6.0.1 build cleanly on i386..now for amd64
<bddebian> \sh: Awesome
<bddebian> Cool, I can sync gnomad2 also.
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<\sh> bddebian: all libnjb4 works with libnjb5? ,-)
<\sh> bddebian: u rock
<bddebian> \sh: Yep
<bddebian> No, I suck :'-(
* \sh kicks bddebian 
<slomo_> bddebian: don't think that bad about you... your work is great :)
<\sh> dholbach: ping how do u do the syncs e.g. alleypoop...or is elmo doing this?
<dholbach> \sh: i wrote mails to elmo
<bddebian> \sh: You have to request from elmo if its a straight sync
<bddebian> I got in trouble for asking for syncs for others ;-)
* bddebian notices he gets in trouble a lot :-)
<\sh> bddebian: I know :)
<\sh> dholbach: ah ok..what about those apt-get.org stuff?
<dholbach> \sh: i will collect them on the page
<dholbach> didn't come round to it yet
<bddebian> slomo_: You are on crack. ;-)
<slomo_> bddebian: normally not ;)
<slomo_> bddebian: i'm tired... but that's it :P
<bddebian> slomo_: I meant your comment about my work. ;-)
<bddebian> dholbach: Is that tinrul in the topic still a valid concern?
<bddebian> s/tinrul/tinyurl/
<slomo_> bddebian: please wait for the libnjb rebuilds until the stuff is in the archives...
<dholbach> bddebian: that was CXX stuff - i put it there yesterday
<slomo_> i.e... upload them in one hour when there are no build failures ;)
<bddebian> slomo_: Aye
<bddebian> slomo_: They just came over :-)
<Nafallo> \sh: ubuno1 will get synced, no?
<\sh> ubuno1?
<Nafallo> just like build1 ;-)
<Nafallo> yea, you made a typo dude :-)
<\sh> argl
<\sh> where?
<bddebian> dholbach: Is it still something that should be on our radar?
<Nafallo> \sh: grass
<\sh> FUCK
<\sh> sorry
<dholbach> just to have a look and close the bugs, if they are to be closed
<Nafallo> no problem, I'm just glad I spotted it now :-)
<bddebian> OK
<bddebian> Anyone bored and want a simple task? :-)
<\sh> no I'm stressed ;-)
<slomo_> bddebian: the rebuilds? and no, i'm busy M;)
<bddebian> slomo_: No I need someone to check up on all my uploads and see if the unmetdeps are fixed :-)
* \sh needs new glasses
<bddebian> I was thinking more a LaserJock or someone :-)
<slomo_> bddebian: just look if they disappeared from the "unmet deps" command after they hit the archives ;)
<bddebian> slomo_: I know. I'm being lazy as I want to "fix" the harder stuff :-)
<slomo_> hm ;)
<slomo_> just regenerate the list in 2 hours or something and look at it :P
<bddebian> Not that I can.. :-)
<bddebian> Heya ogra
<bddebian> What's the status of psi folks?
<\sh> psi is done
<\sh> yesterday
<\sh> merged from debian
<\sh> no sync because I had to adjust the .desktop file
<\sh> ogra: grass-6.0.1 is in the archives (it's building right now)
<bddebian> \sh: OK, NP, just trying to keep the wiki page updated :-)
<\sh> ogra: but it's *censored* 6.0.1-0ubunu1 ,-)
<doko> slomo_: ping do you care about the drpython package?
<\sh> bddebian: if you're editing it right now: move php-imdb from my position to my "finished" position ;)
<slomo_> doko: no... why do you ask? is it broken again? ;)
<bddebian> \sh: OK
<doko> because you did the last upload
<\sh> bddebian: thx :)
<slomo_> doko: but what is wrong with the package? i'm busy currently but i could fix it later
<doko> slomo_: starting a python interpreter freezes the application
<bddebian> \sh: Man, I just can't keep up with you.. ;-)
<slomo_> doko: uh... nice :/ i'll take a look later... that is when you don't want to look at it now ;)
<doko> slomo_: and please locate the doc links in help to the locally installed packages (and maybe package the regexp tutorial)
<slomo_> doko: ok, later
<\sh> bddebian: u do actually...but I won't tell u ;)
<bddebian> \sh: I just hit all the "easy" ones ;-)
<chillywilly> hey, any DRI/3D stuff that I run on this breezy box freeze up my system hard
<chillywilly> so when I go away from my desk for a while the damn xscreensavees hose my system
<chillywilly> even glxgears locks things up hard...at first it runs real slow then if I move my mouse it locks hard
<slomo_> doko: is there a bugreport in bugzilla/malone?
<doko> slomo_: it's http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=311936, but it looks like it's not fixed
<slomo_> doko: the version in unstable has the python interpreter bug fixed
<slomo_> doko: at least the changelog says so... i'll test it
<slomo_> doko: where can i start the python interpreter?
<sistpoty> cya
<bddebian> Later sistpoty
<slomo_> doko: ah... nevermind... found it :)
<ogra> dholbach, hey, thanks for spottong the gcompris bug :)
<dholbach> ogra: de rien :)
<doko> slomo_: then please sync it, but add the local links before (and sensible-browser, if possible).
<ogra> dholbach, its in fact ltsp-client, not gcompris .... games are missing in the path :)
<dholbach> oh, i see
<slomo_> doko: ok
<slomo_> doko: the local stuff is already there... and sensible browser also
<slomo_> doko: or it uses the BROWSER env variable
<doko> slomo_: yes, but if that's not set, it would be nice to use sensible-browser
<rbelem> hello folks
<slomo_> doko: i can fix all of those ;) you'll get an upload later :)
<doko> slomo_: cool
<slomo_> doko: what documentations do you want local? python and wx?
<doko> slomo_: yes, maybe a recommends of the doc packages would be appropriate.
<doko> and the regexp docs could be added to the package
<slomo_> doko: ok, recommends on python and wx docs... and i'll check what i can do with the regexp stuff
<\sh> ogra: grass is ready for testing on i386 and amd64 ;)
<\sh> ogra: I told you that it will hit the archive in time
<ogra> \sh, yay, thanks...
<ogra> \sh, 15244 :(
<ogra> its not the tcp timeout
<\sh> ogra: eek...what is it?
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<ogra> \sh, i have not the slightest idea
<tritium> Hi bddebian.  What's up?
<ogra> \sh, somehow DISPLAY is still set from the fromer session or something..
<bddebian> tritium: Just slaving away ;-)  You?
<\sh> ogra: hmmm....
<tritium> bddebian, same thing here
<slomo_> what's the simplest way to check whether a file exists in python?
<\sh> ogra: but then there must be something glitching with the X11 forward stuff
<ogra> \sh, i added a lot inof to the bug...
<ogra> info even
<slomo_> os.access?
<ogra> yup, looks like
<ogra> slomo_, just run python from the commandline type help() and see if os.access is there ?
<slomo_> ogra: it is there... i just wanted to know if this is the easiest/preferred way to do it ;)
<ogra> ah
<\sh> ogra: but the display envvar should be written over
<ogra> hmm, yes, indeed
<\sh> or something is really b0rked in sshd
<\sh> or if you have something like this scenario:
<ogra> either that or the X server on the client
<\sh> client 192.168.0.2 is connecting to the server,it sets DISPLAY=192.168.0.2:0.0
<ogra> err, nope
<ogra> 192.168.0.2 is the server
<\sh> ok...doesn't matter now ;)
<ogra> DISPLAY should be localhost:10.0
<\sh> or this yes
<\sh> it's ssh ;) forgot ;)
<ogra> sshd handles it like that
<\sh> but internally it's mapped to a tcp session
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> s/session/connection/
<\sh> but what if the first connection is not closed properly...
<ogra> hmm, yes
<ogra> that might be it
<\sh> ogra: but then we're back to a tcp/connection issue
<\sh> ogra: somewhere in sshd it seems
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<slomo_> hi siretart :)
<slomo_> doko: ok, done... i'll test it and then upload ;) when you want the regexp docs please package them and i'll add them to drpython
<doko> slomo_: could you add the regexp stuff to the drpython package?
<slomo_> doko: sure... but that feels wrong for me ;) it doesn't really belong in that package imho...
<bddebian> Oh and Hi ivoks :-)
<ivoks> eh, hi
<ivoks> :)
* ivoks is writing a blog :/
<\sh> woot?
<dholbach> WOW :)
<\sh> writing a blog, or developing a blog? ,-)
<doko> slomo_: mind adding a new package?
<ivoks> \sh: be reasonable :)
<\sh> ivoks: *eg*
<slomo_> doko: when you package it and find another motu to vote for it, no problem ;)
<bddebian> Doh
<\sh> bddebian: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/n/neutrino/0.8.4-4/neutrino_0.8.4-4_20050915-1831-powerpc-failed.gz ;)
<doko> slomo_: no, I did ask if _you_ want to package it
<bddebian> \sh: ppc, wtf is that? ;-)
<ivoks> hm...
<slomo_> doko: no... i'm too busy with other stuff currently... hm, bddebian? maybe you want to create your first package? :)
<ivoks> linux-source-2.6.12 package should depend on gcc-3.4
* bddebian hides
<bddebian> doko: It's already packaged?
<slomo_> bddebian: ope
<slomo_> nope
<slomo_> bddebian: http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/
<\sh> doko: what is it?
<doko> bddebian: no, you could start with it, it's documentation on python-regexp's. maybe a bit tricky to build.
<bddebian> Oh great
<doko> bddebian: you have to use latex2html for building the docs, and include the pregenerated docs into the package (because latex2html is in universe)
* ivoks did netboot install on 8 machines today... ladies and gentlmen... breezy is hyper operating system
<bddebian> ivoks: w00t
<Lathiat> ivoks: for bonus points did you preseed it?
<ivoks> preseed? :) if that's creating local mirror - no :)
<ivoks> but i was very angry cause kickstart didn't work out well
<Lathiat> no
<Lathiat> presetting the
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> its like kickstart
<Lathiat> but direct that d-i uses
<Lathiat> rather than a layer over d-i
<slomo_> doko: what's the problem with latex2html in universe? do you want to regexp doc in main? ;)
<ivoks> i tried kickstart - installation freezed on partitionig
<ivoks> Lathiat: i'm open for other suggestions :)
<ivoks> Lathiat: i have 50 more computers to install :)
<ivoks> Lathiat: problem is that breezy's kernel doesn't support their ethernet :/
<Lathiat> ivoks: ah suck
<Lathiat> ivoks: what ethernet?
<doko> slomo_: sorry, latex2html is in multiverse
<ivoks> sk98lin
<ivoks> Lathiat: marvell yukon
<Lathiat> ivoks: oh the new one
<Lathiat> yeh i think that was being worked on
<ivoks> Lathiat: not really... it works with 2.4.27 kernel :/
<Lathiat> not sure on the status
<Lathiat> ivoks: *really*? perhaps a different problerm then
<Lathiat> that driver has some new cards out, notably in laptops, that is not supported by the kernel driver
<ivoks> Lathiat: there is no modul in kernel
* Lathiat nods
<ivoks> installation kernel
<ivoks> i tried to create my own, but damn thing didn't want to compile then :)
<Lathiat> ask uh..
<ivoks> (sk98lin)
<Lathiat> i think it was \sh
<Lathiat> had a moduled compiled but had to -f it
<ivoks> i talked with \sh allready
<ivoks> Lathiat: there are options, don't worry...
<doko> slomo_: another thing: could you add a gnome desktop icon for drpython?
<ivoks> Lathiat: i can allways run install with 2.4 kernel :)
<\sh> ivoks: only via kernel patch compilable...as module directly no chance.
<dholbach> are all those entries on REVU really recent?
<ivoks> \sh: i'll figure out something tomorrow
<ivoks> today i was to tired to try again :)
<slomo_> doko: sure... one second later and i would have uploaded it ;)
<\sh> ivoks: when u use the package from syskonnect...you can choose between module compile or patch generation..choose: patch and apply it to a 2.6.12 kernel source..make menuconfig and enable it as module...compiles fin
<\sh> e
<ivoks> \sh: YES!
<ivoks> \sh: i recall now doing that with 2.4 kernel
<ivoks> doh...
<ivoks> totally forgot about that...
<dholbach> have a nice evening
<ivoks> \sh: what would I do without you? :)
<\sh> slomo_: do u know why in lighthttpd (revu) a Makefile.am is in debian/?
<ivoks> dholbach: visit ivoks.blogspot.com when you have time :)
<slomo_> \sh: no idea :) can you give me the url?
<\sh> slomo_: I put my comment already on
<\sh> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=379
<\sh> ivoks: bah...u need a real blog ;)
<\sh> ivoks: want to have a ivoks.blogweb.de with serendipity? ,-)
<dholbach> cool ivoks :)
<slomo_> \sh: it's there to install all the files in the debian directory... how ugly
<ivoks> \sh: wait, maybe later
<\sh> slomo_: yes
* ivoks is planing to start ubuntu-croatia
<ivoks> of course, there would be blog server :)
<slomo_> hmm... is there a jabber blog bot? ;)
<\sh> slomo_: yes...I have to install it ;)
<slomo_> doko: drpython uploaded with every wish you had except the regexp stuff ;)
<doko> slomo_: thanks!
<ogra> doko, why has spe a blender icon ?
<doko> ogra: they write, it can be called from blender, but I couldn't get this working ...
<ogra> oh, cool
<doko> ogra: if you want to try that ...
<ogra> doko, if i have solved 15244, 12942 and 14967, i'll probably try it :)
<ogra> doko, you should disable the dot files in the filebrowser....
<ogra> (spe that is)
<ivoks> did anyone watch go-open serial?
<\sh> i didn't watch any of the go-open videos...when I have time
<doko> ogra: there are more things to do in spe ... like cleaning up all the advertisements and the links to other distributions. maybe slomo_ got used to it by doing the same for drpython?
<ivoks> i saw them all :)
<slomo_> ivoks: so they work now for you? wonderfull :)
* \sh is tired 
<ivoks> slomo_: sort of...
<\sh> but some packages are waiting for me
<slomo_> doko: i can write it on my todo list... maybe i can do it tomorrow... just write me a mail with everything that needs to be done to slomo@ubuntu.com
<slomo_> ivoks: sort of?
<ogra> \me too... but odd bugs are waiting
<ivoks> slomo_: audio and video aren't synced...
<slomo_> ivoks: ah ok... but that's nothing we can fix :(
<\sh> ogra: it's dark outside...wow so fast ;)
<ivoks> slomo_: i don't know if that's fixable :)
<slomo_> doko: and you can write me similar stuff too... but better via email ;) otherwise i probably forget it
<\sh> grmpf..who requested a sync of centericq?
<ogra> \sh, dholbach
<\sh> i see...
<\sh> fixing it
<doko> slomo_: want a bug report?
<\sh> after rezound
<bddebian> rezound is screwed.  Also GL/GLU transition needed :-)
<\sh> done already
<\sh> it's building here
<slomo> doko: for that kind of stuff?
<\sh> bddebian: as well as ctsim ;) which needed a rebuild because of libwxgtk-2.4-1
<bddebian> \sh: Didn't I already fix ctsim?
<\sh> bddebian: no :)
<\sh> bddebian: new unmet dep
<bddebian> \sh: See, told you I suck ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: the list is sucking on the wiki
<\sh> bddebian: I'm working now on fresh LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet
<zyga> hello
<bddebian> Hello zyga
<\sh> building centericq
<doko> slomo: sure, so I can reopen it, if I don't like it ;-P
<zyga> bddebian: I'd like to contribute pygame-1.7.1 for universe if that's possible
* zyga is AFK, eta: 30 minutes
<slomo> doko: ok, just assign it to me and give me the url
<slomo> doko: but only universe/multiverse stuff ;)
<doko> slomo: done
<\sh> ah AnHu
<\sh> guys..welcome our new "motu to be" AnHu...KDE fan ;)
<\sh> bddebian: do u want to guide him? ,-)
<AnHu> stop, \sh is a little bit crazy.
<AnHu> ;-)
<\sh> no...riddell told me u will be our next motu ;)
<slomo> hi AnHu :)
<\sh> and what riddell is telling me, it's fact ,)
<AnHu> I'm only a 16 year old student with 3 foreign languages ;-)
<\sh> AnHu: that's good...
<bddebian> Welcome AnHu
<\sh> AnHu: the younger the better
<bddebian> Hey
<AnHu> welcome, you make a great job
<\sh> bddebian: he can do a lot of workload ,-)
<bddebian> \sh: You want ME to guide someone?  You are nuts. ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: no...serious
<\sh> bddebian: no joke now :)
<bddebian> I'll do what I can. :-)
<\sh> AnHu: bddebian is your mentor now :)
<bddebian> Scary
<slomo> doko: malone or bugzilla?
<doko> slomo: malone 2326, you should have mail
<slomo> doko: ok, got it :) where is the assign and other stuff in malone now? :(
<slomo> ah found it...
<AnHu> bddebian: How should I start?
<ogra> wohoo, bddebian congrats to your new mentor job :)
<bddebian> AnHu: What do you know?  What do you like?
<bddebian> AnHu: Do you know anything about Debian/Ubuntu packaging at all yet?
<bddebian> ogra: Heh, thx. (I think) :-)
<AnHu> bddebian: No, nothing. I only know chekcinstall
<AnHu> but that's not good, I know
<bddebian> :-)
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> It's all good.  I don't know anything. ;-)
<bddebian> AnHu: You could do me a big favor.
<AnHu> what?
<bddebian> AnHu: Do you have a breezy install or a breezy pbuilder set up?
<AnHu> well, yes
<AnHu> now I'm under Hoary
<AnHu> but I have Breezy, too.
<bddebian> AnHu: Do you know how to set up pbuilder?
<Tonio-> hi
<bddebian> Hello Tonio-
<AnHu> bddebian: no
<Tonio-> I have a little question concerning the version number for a package
<Tonio-> I packaged klibido for breezy, already uploaded, and here is a new version
<Tonio-> do I have to start with 0ubuntu1 also, or 1ubuntu1 ?
<AnHu> bddbebian: I install the pbuilder package now
<bddebian> AnHu: OK, good, first task. :-)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto  Set up pbuilder with Hoary first, then upgrade it to breezy, following the instructions.  If you get stuck, ask.
<Tonio-> nobody know ?, bddebian maybe ?
<bddebian> Tonio-: I'm confused, this is a new package or already in Ubuntu?
<Lathiat> Tonio-: if this is a ubuntu-specific package, 0ubuntu1
<Lathiat> Tonio-: 1ubuntu1 is when syncing from debian
<Lathiat> Tonio-: or specifically when the debian version is 1 and you sync
<AnHu> bddebian: ok
<Tonio-> version 0.6 is already in breezy
<\sh> x.y.z-<debrev>ubuntu<ubunturev>
<Tonio-> version 0.7 has been released
<Tonio-> and if there is no debian package ?
<\sh> Tonio-: 0ubuntu1
<Tonio-> okay ;)
<\sh> even then
<Tonio-> I'm gonna update it so ;)
<Tonio-> is the usage of uupdate better than restarting from scrach ?
<\sh> if uupdate is working
<\sh> use uupdate
<\sh> and check the diffs for installed files between 0.6 and 0.7
<\sh> (after the build)
<\sh> argl
<Tonio-> okay thanks \sh ;)
<\sh> dch: fatal error at line 647:
<\sh> New version specified (0beta1-2ubuntu1) is less than
<\sh> the current version number (0.beta1-2)!  Use -b to force.
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> i need definitly new glasses
<doko> slomo: please forward your drpython changes to the debian maintainer
<Tonio-> \sh: last question, how to get the sources for uupdate ?
<Tonio-> I tried apt-get source but I don't get the folder with the debian subfolder inside
<Tonio-> ah forget, fu***ng screen refresh...........
<slomo> doko: is this really needed anymore? he just has to look at packages.qa.debian.org and sees our changes to his package...
<\sh> Tonio-: well...easy
<\sh> Tonio-: u use the old 0.6 debianized source and do a uupdate ../klibido-0.7.tar.gz
<doko> slomo: yes please. we say we feed back all changes to Debian, so please submit a bug report pointing to the changes
<slomo> doko: hrm... i hate filling bugs by mail... i'll do later
<\sh> grmpf
<slomo> \sh: ?
<\sh> how can I say cdbs to compile two binary packages for 2.3 and 2.4?
<\sh> DEB_PYTHON_COMPILE_VERSION := 2.3 2.4 ?
<\sh> did I mention today, that I hate cdbs? ,-)
<AnHu> is this message correct when I make sudo pbuilder update --distribution hoary --override-config: I: Retrieving debootstrap.invalid_dists_hoary_Release
<AnHu> I: Retrieving debootstrap.invalid_dists_hoary_main_binary-i386_Packages
<AnHu> I: Validating debootstrap.invalid_dists_hoary_main_binary-i386_Packages
<AnHu> then it follow checking many packages
<\sh> bddebian: konq-shellhere can be morgued as well...
<shawarma> slomo: Hi! I've uploaded a new version of libmms that fixes the last two issues.
<slomo> shawarma: ok, i'll take a look
<shawarma> slomo: Thank you very much for your quick and constructive help.
<slomo> shawarma: you can begin to write a main inclusion report for that ;)
<shawarma> slomo: Hehe. Excellent.
<Tonio-> groupWidget.h: No such file -> third time I get this error with pbuilder
<Tonio-> any idea ?
<slomo> Tonio-: ask apt-file where this file is
<Tonio-> k
<Tonio-> damn this file doesn't seem to exist with breezy:/
<slomo> Tonio-: is it in the package your currently compile?
<Tonio-> yep, the new version of klibido
<Tonio-> sudo apt-file search groupWidget.h gives me no result
<slomo> but is this file in the package?
<slomo> i.e. in the tarball?
<Tonio-> ahhhhhhhh yes, it is
<Tonio-> but it isn't found during the compilation....
<Tonio-> okay
<slomo> maybe broken buildsystem ;)
<Tonio-> maybe yes
<Lathiat>  hey Amaranth
<Tonio-> that sound strange.......
<Amaranth> hi
<Amaranth> finished a math test in 20 minutes, got to leave early ;)
<Lathiat> haha
<Amaranth> we had 2 hours to do it
<Lathiat> i've been known to finsih 3 hour exams in 55 minutes, had to wait 5 minutes till the hour was up before theyd let me go
<Lathiat> Amaranth: question is, was it a good finish or a bad finish? ;)
<slomo> Lathiat: about what was the exam? ;)
<Lathiat> slomo: information systems
<Amaranth> as long as the pages didn't have a front and a back i got at least a 90% :)
<Lathiat> Amaranth: hehe
<Lathiat> Amaranth: nice
<Lathiat> i always feel guilty walking out so early
<Lathiat> everyone probably thinks i did really bad
<Lathiat> when i got like 80% or whatever :)
<Amaranth> oh shit, i forgot to turn in the assignments for the unit with the test
* Amaranth facepalms
<Tonio-> little question..... again ;)
<Tonio-> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=553
<Tonio-> what does this meen ? is it a problem if the package installs libraries ?
<Tonio-> if so what to do ?
<Surak> Hello
<Tonio-> hi
<Surak> I need help with the creation of a package. It's the first time I'm doing this the right way (R) reading the debian new mantainers' guide.
<Surak> I've got help to be able to port the conexant hsf winmodem module to 2.6. It now works. I need to package this source to present it to ubuntu in the future.
<Tonio-> I am not a specialist in packaing kernel modules ;)
<Surak> my problem is when I do a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot, the following happens:
<Tonio-> I think it is a bit different from standard packages but not sure....
<Surak> dpkg-source: building conexant using existing conexant_192.orig.tar.gz
<Surak> dpkg-source: building conexant in conexant_192.diff.gz
<Surak> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to modules/imported/hsfali.O: binary file contents changed
<Surak> (...)
<Surak> dpkg-source: building conexant in conexant_192.dsc
<Surak> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<Tonio-> first use pbuilder and debuild instead of dpkg-buildpackage
<Tonio-> this is the best advice I can give ;)
<Surak> hum... is there any good howto on doing this? this guide says nothing about it.
<Lathiat> Surak: you might want to look at existing packages
<Tonio-> I must say I don't know ;)
<Tonio-> I learn from scratch (pain in the ass !!)
<Tonio-> but once you know these toold, it is a pleasure !
<Tonio-> lokk at ubuntu wiki for pbuilder
<Surak> right.
<Lathiat> Surak: /query surak
<Lathiat> bah
<Surak> ok :-)
<shawarma> Damn. It feels really good to finally have made a package that actually goes somewhere. Every other package I've ever made has never gotten any further than debian-mentors or REVU. :-)
<Surak> this modem module may help a lot of people. there's no such a thing yet. I think ubuntu deserves to be the first place to have it :-)
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> removing all pbuilder corpse
<zyga> how can I upgrade a package in universe
<zyga> blah - bad wording
<zyga> I've upgraded a package currently in universe, it builds on hoary and should build on breezy too - how can I get it included?
<\sh> zyga: via revu
<Tonio-> if a package is a frontendend using for example xine, gstreamer or ffmpeg
<Tonio-> should I put the three engines as dependancies ?
<Tonio-> or maybe suggested ones ?
<\sh> no.
<\sh> 3 packages..
<\sh> like totem-gstreamer
<\sh> totem-xine
<\sh> u need only to build them separatly out of one source
<Tonio-> okay, that's logic yes
<Tonio-> same package but with different dependancies in fact
<Surak> Tonio: debuild says the same:
<Surak> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to modules/imported/hsfyukon.O: binary file contents changed
<Surak> dpkg-source: building conexant in conexant_192.dsc
<Surak> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<Surak> debuild: fatal error at line 765:
<Surak> dpkg-buildpackage failed!
<\sh> Surak: u shouldn't have binary files at this stage...
<\sh> Surak: if so, then u have a wrong clean target or clean target doesn't clean anything correctly
<Surak> those are proprietary modules
<\sh> Surak: but why is it changed then?
<Surak> there's no source for them. Are the same which are used for the 2.2 and 2.4
<Surak> that's a good question :-)
<\sh> gnarf...from 100% hd full to less then 35% ,-)
<bddebian> Sorry gang, got pulled into a meeting.  What have I missed? :-)
<\sh> bddebian: konq-shellhere can be morgued ;)
<bddebian> \sh: So why are you telling me?  Elmo keeps yelling at me. ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: personal team assistant *lol*
<\sh> trying to reproduce my "non X inotify bug"
<j00bar> howdy.
<j00bar> is this the right place to ask questions about pbuilder?
<bddebian> \sh: :-)
<j00bar> i'm trying to run pbuilder build in accordance with the instructions in the wiki, and on two different machines, the process errors out (for different reasons) when setting up dpkg-dev
<j00bar> from the looks of the error messages, something is chroot'ing and then forgetting it is chrooted...
<j00bar> one machine errors with:
<j00bar> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
<j00bar> the other errors with:
<j00bar> sh: dzhandle: command not found
<j00bar> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'dzhandle restart-pending-instances'
<\sh> j00bar: for puilder you should remove the update-notifier in /etc/pbuilder/apt.conf/
<\sh> S99update-notifier
<j00bar> d'oh.
<j00bar> gracias para la ayuda
<\sh> j00bar: it's written on the PbuilderHowto on the ubuntu wiki
<bmonty> \sh: konqshellhere should be on the MorgueCandidates list already
<\sh> bmonty: good :)
<j00bar> it is? looking again.
<bmonty> hmm...I just loaded the page and it isn't there.....but it will be in a sec :)
<bddebian> So tell elmo you bums! ;-)
<j00bar> it is there... i need to learn how to read better...
<j00bar> thanks again...
<bmonty> bddebian: tell him what?
<crimsun> gar. much weeping and gnashing teeth.
<bddebian> To morgue konq-shellhere
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Done with that vlc yet? ;-P
<bmonty> bddebian: oh yeah, I forgot he doesn't monitor those pages
<crimsun> sorry, my highest priority is fixing ALSA for Breezy for the snd-hda-intel users
<bddebian> Bah, who the hell uses ALSA? ;-)
<crimsun> directsound all the way!
<\sh> crimsun: are u involved as well in the python alsa stuff
<crimsun> \sh: nope
<Nafallo> crimsun: tiwai tells me hp_only should work. do we have an alsa version with that stuff in it? :-)
<Nafallo> crimsun: hi btw :-)
<crimsun> Nafallo: it's shipped in Breezy's kernel
<Nafallo> crimsun: ha! then he is wrong :-).
<crimsun> Nafallo: otherwise I have a test deb of a cvs snapshot from a couple nights ago at http://sh.nu/~crimsun/alsa-modules-2.6.12-8-686_1.0.9b-3ubuntu1~2_i386.deb
<crimsun> (note the uname -r)
<Nafallo> amd64-k8 :-)
<crimsun> I'll install that kernel and make a deb
<Nafallo> :-)
<crimsun> eek, will take a while (slow dist-upgrade)
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<Nafallo> either that or tell me the way to do it ;-)
<crimsun> you can cheat by copying the debian/ dir from an untarred /usr/src/alsa-driver.tar.bz2 (from 'alsa-source') to a cvs checkout of alsa-driver (you'll need the alsa-kernel cvs module, too)
<Nafallo> oki :-)
* tseng updates xorg for the 10th day in a row
<Nafallo> hehe
<chillywilly> tseng: fix my X
<bddebian> chillywilly: No one can fix your X honey.. ;-P
<chillywilly> tseng: all 3D/DRI shit makes my X lock up hard
<tseng> uh
<chillywilly> :)
<tseng> fix it yourself
<bddebian> 3D/DRI makes you hard?
<tseng> i dont like your attitude
<chillywilly> I don't know wtf is wrong with it
<chillywilly> tseng: sucks to be you then
<chillywilly> bddebian: in your dreams
<bddebian> heh
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
<tseng> its great to be me.
<bddebian> Uh oh
<tseng> it could suck to be you.
<tseng> :)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o tseng]  by tseng
<chillywilly> :(
<rbelem> Nafallo:
<rbelem> ops...
<chillywilly> tseng: it still sucks to be you ;)
<rbelem> sorry
<bddebian> chillywilly: Don't worry, tseng doesn't like anyone. :-)
<chillywilly> I don't care really :)
<chillywilly> I just want to know why X is so fscked
<chillywilly> I blame him :)
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> re ajmitch  ;)
<bddebian> Hello again ajmitch :-)
<chillywilly> hi ajmitchie
<tseng> if the above display didnt sink in, it was meant to be a playful hint to please behave
<tseng> and not try to provoke people.
<chillywilly> hmmm, /ignore is fun
<tseng> good.
<ajmitch> :)
<tseng> bddebian: can you please explain the point to your friend that while we highly value contributors, i dont tolerate excessive screwing around?
<tseng> bddebian: i think youve found the right balance yourself now :)
<bddebian> Heh, thx.
<bddebian> You're just saying that from my overload in breezy-changes
<tseng> for every upload you get to make a one smartass comment
<bddebian> Hehe, fair enough :-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Surak> can I ask something about pbuilder here? is this the correct place?
<bddebian> You can ask, dunno if we can answer :-)
<Surak> I did a $ sudo pbuilder create --distribution hoary - but it takes forever on the following line: I: Checking component main on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu...
<\sh> Surak: it takes time
<Surak> hum,... I've been looking at my screen for about one and a half hour. Better go home and get a beer then :-)
<ajmitch> usually it doesn't take quite that long :)
<Nafallo> crimsun: baah, packaged the latest devel release. nothing it diffrent :-P
<bmonty> how do I get build logs for a particular package?
<\sh> bmonty: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<\sh> or 2 dirs up for single packages
<bmonty> \sh: thanks
<crimsun> Nafallo: sorry, which driver? I'm juggling several similar bugs.
<Nafallo> crimsun: snd_via82xx, upstream bug 1051 :-)
<Nafallo> crimsun: I handle it upstream. thanx for helping me prove upstream to be wrong ;-).
<crimsun> Nafallo: erm, you wouldn't put ac97_quirk=hp_only in /etc/modules, you'd append "options snd-via82xx ac97_quirk=hp_only" to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base
<crimsun> please ''sudo invoke-rc.d alsa force-reload''
<bddebian> OK gang, gotta run, catch you on the flipside :-)
<crimsun> l8r
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-21
<Nafallo> crimsun: hp_only works for me :-)
<Nafallo> crimsun: with the breezy version of things :-)
<crimsun> Nafallo: after using /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base, correct? :)
<Nafallo> crimsun: yepp :-). updating the bugreport now :-).
<crimsun> Nafallo: excellent, thanks.
<Nafallo> crimsun: thank you, this bug has followed me since warty ;-).
<Nafallo> I added the output of lspci -vns 00:11.5 :-)
<Nafallo> should be enough for them to add hp_only as default :-)
<ajmitch> sigh, \sh did gnue-forms as well
* ajmitch is going to have to overwrite that change asap anyway
<\sh> what?
<\sh> did I catch one of your?
<\sh> s
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> one of my debian packages
<ajmitch> that I was waiting to get through NEW in debian
<ajmitch> so that I could sync the whole lot of gnue-* packages together
<\sh> ajmitch: bah...I just adjusted the build-deps
<\sh> ajmitch: sorry for that
<ajmitch> it's ok
<ajmitch> but the whole lot needs updated
<ajmitch> to properly work with the wxversion stuff
<ajmitch> patch needed to be applied in just the right place for it to work
<\sh> ajmitch: python stuff...?
<\sh> should be applied after import wxversion and before import wxPython bla
<\sh> just like I did with bittorrent-gui
<ajmitch> I've already done it :P
<ajmitch> I know what to do, but you need to know where to patch gnue-forms for it to work properly
<ajmitch> so the package is installable but not very usable at the moment in breezy
<\sh> ajmitch: the package was an ubuntu package at all...do an update upload ;)
<ajmitch> I'm going to ask for the sync
<ajmitch> since it fixes other issues
<\sh> it just happend today that I uploaded an Xubunu1 package ;)
<crimsun> I initially interpreted that as Xubuntu and thought, "Wait, you didn't ping jani and me first?" ;)
<\sh> crimsun: lol...no ;)
<ajmitch> hmm, what's with that guy & "paco" who goes "quoting" everything?
<\sh> ajmitch: ??
<ajmitch> ubuntu-devel :)
<\sh> ajmitch: have a second?
<\sh> ajmitch: php4-sqlite -> Depends: phpapi-20020918 | zendapi-20020429 but installed in /usr/lib/php4/20050606
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> looks broken :)
<\sh> damn
<ajmitch> fwiw..
<ajmitch> Package: php4-kadm5
<ajmitch> Architecture: any
<ajmitch> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, phpapi-20020918
<bddebian> ugh
<ajmitch> no php:Depends
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> I have to fix this shit
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> I will use the substvar stuff
* ajmitch is at work, is busy coding today
<ajmitch> I'll do a bit tomorrow once we get to our bug day
<\sh> ajmitch: u agree with substvars?
<ajmitch> yes
<\sh> k
<ajmitch> not that you need my agreement :)
<bddebian> Tomorrow is bug day?
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, it starts in 12 hours & 15min
<ajmitch> well
<bddebian> Eeks
<ajmitch> 11:30 if you count chatham islands ;)
<ajmitch> but I don't think we have any ubuntu people out there
<\sh> fixing the packages
<ajmitch> thanks
* ajmitch wishes he could help more at the moment
<bddebian> Yeah, whatever d00d. ;-)
<\sh> I bugged them, I fixem up
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're right, I don't want to help any of you, and & hate you all
<ajmitch> sound better?
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> ;)
* bddebian hugs ajmitch 
* ajmitch goes into retirement as a hasbeen motu
<bddebian> Heh
<Nafallo> ajmitch: tss ;-)
* bddebian only knows how to sync and rebuild. :'-(
<Nafallo> bddebian: tsssss
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> sqlite pulls in the old depends again..but now as well with new php depends
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> damnit
<\sh> dh_makeshlibs *grrr*
* \sh needs really really new glasses
<\sh> grmpf
<Nafallo> joy
<Nafallo> freeloader has debian/ built-in :-P
<Nafallo> and it's empty ;-)
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> two packages more and I'm done with php shit
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> after them I'm falling into bed
<cogumbreiro> lo all
<\sh> hi cogumbreiro nice to have u here
<cogumbreiro> thx :)
<ogra> cogumbreiro, arent you also writing this dialup tool ?
* ogra      thinksits a shame he forgot the name
<cogumbreiro> gnome-ppx?
<ogra> yup
<cogumbreiro> I was but I don't have a dialup connection anymore
<cogumbreiro> since i've bought a router :)
<ogra> heh..
<cogumbreiro> and didn't see much interest from the community in it
<ogra> thats an area where ubuntu still lacks good tools
<cogumbreiro> it was a dialup for broadband connections
<cogumbreiro> I would love to recreate it in pygtk ;) but still I lack the hardware to try it...
<ogra> ubuntu has only pppoeconf ... its easy, reliable and does the job... but its 100% commandline
<cogumbreiro> unless there's a mock ppp plugin outthere
* \sh is fixing now on two frontiers...unmet deps + kde
<cogumbreiro> gnome-ppx solves that totally
<cogumbreiro> but alas...
<cogumbreiro> that's an area I love to work, finding applications that are missing in my distro, ubuntu is specially greate because it shares my principles (loves open source, gnome and python)
<ogra> heh, thats what pulled me in too :)
<\sh> and I was pulled in by ogra and the theory of "I just works out of the box"
<\sh> ok..all php4-extentions fixed, tested, uploaded
<ogra> oh, mpt was here ?
<\sh> fixing knoda
<cogumbreiro> motu is about packaging programs, right?
<ogra> cogumbreiro, that too
<cogumbreiro> what more?
<ogra> cogumbreiro, packaging, fixing stuff, packaging your own stuff, finding apps to package etc
<ogra> everything you can do with packages :)
<cogumbreiro> ogra: i've never done that, i feel intregued by it :P
<ogra> and with universe
<\sh> we're the gateway from the community into the archives...all software which is wished for from the community, we will check and package
<bddebian> Ho hum, more syncs :-(
<\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/pbuilder/result/breezy$ du -m
<\sh> 53      .
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> not much today
<ogra> cogumbreiro, its very easy to understand if you tried it for some time...
* Nafallo tries to build hos freeloader package
<Nafallo> based _heavily_ on gajims debian/* ;-)
<Nafallo> kewl
<Nafallo> only build-deps from main :-)
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> hmm
<slomo> Nafallo: ping?
<Nafallo> slomo: pong :-)
<slomo> Nafallo: please write me a test mail ;)
<Nafallo> lol
<slomo> Nafallo: at the u.c address :)
<Nafallo> sent :-)
<bddebian> All this mozilla-locale-* crap wants mozilla-browser < 2:1.6.1 ??
<\sh> change it ;)
<\sh> fix it ;)
<slomo> Nafallo: thanks :)
<bddebian> To what?  I don't even know if they're valid anymore?
<\sh> so test it ;)
<ajmitch> they probably aren't valid
<bddebian> ajmitch: That's my guess
* ajmitch wonders why \sh_away left the py 2.3 bindings in lasso but didn't put in 2.4? ;)
<ajmitch> ah darn, he's gone off to sleep
<bddebian> OK, time for "LOST".  BBL
<seth_k|lappy> our new servers are named after Lost
<seth_k|lappy> we have charlie, locke, sawyer, kate, and jack
<bmonty> any pointers on creating a patch for a source package that has the source code in a tar file?  Can I create a meaningful debdiff from that?
<Lathiat> bmonty: does it use cdbs?
<bmonty> Lathiat: nope, it uses debhelper
<bmonty> I looking at the ace source package
<Lathiat> well i mean you can apply a patch with the debian stuff (dpatch style etc)
<bmonty> ok, and then can I give a debdiff to someone to try on amd64 and/or powerpc?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> because the patch gets applied after the tarball is unpacked
<bmonty> sounds good
<bmonty> so can anyone have access to build a package on a powerpc or amd64?
<ajmitch> in a few hours I can do ppc :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: I'll be going to bed in a few, so I'll post a link to the debdiff in a sec, ok?
<ajmitch> ok
<bmonty> ajmitch: the debdiff is at http://www.montynet.org/ubuntu/debdiff/ace_5.4.7-3ubuntu1.debdiff
<bmonty> this is an experiment, I'm not sure if it will fix the problem :)
<ajmitch> alright, will try & get some ppc time to take a look
<bmonty> thanks
<ajmitch> it's a shread box, usually running OSX< that doesn't belong to me ;)
<ajmitch> shared..
<bmonty> ajmitch: ace takes awhile to compile, so hopefully the other folks sharing the box don't get upset :)
<ajmitch> I'll do it overnight then ;)
<bmonty> I think it will fail quickly if the patch doesn't work (13k build log for failures vs. a 159k log for successful compile)
<bmonty> hopefully it works and then \sh will leave me alone :)
<bmonty> just got done taking a class on IPv6, and I noticed that you have to use -I with ping6 to ping a link local address, I think this is a bug....anyone know otherwise?
<ajmitch> bmonty: no, it's not
<ajmitch> it's perfectly reasonable according to the ipv6 spec :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: k, I just figured since the link local address in the route table and assigned to an interface, I should be able to ping it....like with an IPv4 address
<ajmitch> "
<ajmitch> "Using link-local addresses for an IPv6 ping, the kernel does not know through which (physically or virtual) device it must send the packet - each device has a link-local address"
<ajmitch> Lathiat can verify all this ;)
<Lathiat> use -I
<Lathiat> oh you already knew that
<bmonty> ajmitch: I think it odd the spec would say that since the link local address has the MAC in it, I would think that would uniquely identify the interface
<ajmitch> bmonty: nope
<Lathiat> bmonty: no, your pinging a remote host
<Lathiat> bm	it could be on any interface
<Lathiat> as the link local range applies to all interfaces equally
<Lathiat> the kernel isnt going to "guess" which one is appropriate
<Lathiat> so you have to specify it explicitly
<bmonty> Lathiat: I guess I'm confused, it would seem to me that kernel would know exactly what interface to use since the address is associated with only a specific single interface
<ajmitch> Lathiat: your laptop not connected at the moment?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: it is altho you may be tryign to ping my other laptop
<Lathiat> or i was on wireless last time
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yeah, the one I tried to merge off
<ajmitch> when we were doing the bzr test
<Lathiat> bmonty: how would it know? the only thing it knows by default is where it wants to send it
<Lathiat> ajmitch: what address?
<ajmitch> 2001:388:c0fe:0:211:43ff:fe62:698d
<Lathiat> bmonty: the ip has the *local* mac,
<Lathiat> ajmitch: uh thast right, tunnels probably down
<ajmitch> as you can see, my ipv6 tunnel is up & working :)
<Lathiat> bmonty: in theory, the kernel could go arp otu all interfaces
* ajmitch is glad for once that freenode has an ipv6 host
<Lathiat> bmonty: and try find someone for the address
<Lathiat> bmonty: but thats ugly,
<ajmitch> that gets expensive for broadcast traffic
<ajmitch> that's one reason that ipv6 is not allowed at uni - too much broadcasting
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<Lathiat> also the link local address doesn't necesarily have to have the mac address in it
<Lathiat> ajmitch: thats because your uni has a worse network design than my house
<Lathiat> it just happens most people autoconfigure an address with the mac
<Lathiat> you can manually configure one
<bmonty> interesting...I'm also noticing that the link local address for eth0 has lo as the interface in the routing table
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it's a real horror alright
<Lathiat> and also use the 'privacy extensions' which create random addresses and change it every few minutes
<jsgotangco> morning guys
<Lathiat> bmonty: eh?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: try now?
<ajmitch> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 1573.081/1598.446/1626.443/19.946 ms, pipe 2
<ajmitch> horrendous ping times :)
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> my link is being hammered
* Lathiat uis uploading
<ajmitch> ok
<Lathiat> and iw ant it to hurry up so i tweaked wondershaper up into the laggy area
<ajmitch> at least the linux & osx hosts in my flat are using ipv6
<Lathiat> has 44h left as it is :)
<ajmitch> dunno about the 3 XP boxes
<bmonty> Lathiat: thanks for the info...I need to do some more playing :)
<bmonty> I'm planning on moving my home network to IPv6
<bmonty> unfortunately my ISP won't give me a prefix, so I'm stuck tunneling to a 6bone gateway :(
<ajmitch> Lathiat: how well does mdns6 work now?
<Lathiat> bmonty: tunnel to aarnet
<ajmitch> bmonty: most ISPs don't give out prefixes
<Lathiat> ajmitch: on avahi? perfectly...
<bmonty> I was going to use he.net, but I'll check out aarnet
<ajmitch> Lathiat: why would you suggest aarnet for him?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: because im silly
<ajmitch> :)
<Lathiat> and assume everyone is in australia :)
<Lathiat> bmonty: where are you?
<bmonty> in the middle of the US
<ajmitch> :P
<bmonty> Nebraska
<Lathiat> :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I shoudl switch it on - easier than hacking the zone files to put my ipv6 addresses in :)
<Lathiat> http://penguins.squaa.org/~lathiat/routes.txt fear :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: what is mdns6?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: what system are you using there?
<Lathiat> system?
<Lathiat> all the 10.x routes?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: looks very similar to a multipoint vpn I use
<ajmitch> well, not very private :)
<ajmitch> yes, all the 10.x routes
<Lathiat> thats a bgp session to the perth wireless freenet
<ajmitch> ah ok
<ajmitch> the system I use is ethernet over udp
<Lathiat> which im cheating and connected via a vpn to
<ajmitch> so each of us runs a bgp router
<Tonio-> hi
<ajmitch> and can do local ipv6 routing over ipv4
<ajmitch> hello
<gabaug> is there a tutorial on how to take an existing ubuntu pkg and upgrade it (for one's own purpose) to a newer version of the software it's packaging?
<bmonty> ajmitch: is there a service that does dynamic dns for IPv6, or do I need to run DHCP?
<Tonio-> I don't understand
<Yagisan> gabaug: It's covered in the new maintainers guide
<Tonio-> why do you need to perform an update if it is for your own purpose ?
<gabaug> Tonio-: the libapache2-mod-perl2 pkg is horribly out of date
<bmonty> gabaug: do a search on www.debian-administration.org, I think they had an article about that
<Tonio-> okay
<Tonio-> do you want me to update it ?
<gabaug> Tonio-: and I can build it myself, but I'd prefer to repkg it so I can later go back to Ubuntu's pkgs when they get around to be updated
<gabaug> Tonio-: for distribution in Ubuntu?
<Tonio-> yep ;)
<Tonio-> well if you wanna make the package juste for you, I woul suggest a little ./configure && make & checkinstall
<gabaug> Tonio-: well, never done it before, but I'm interested
<Tonio-> you will get a non clean but working package for personnal usage
<gabaug> Tonio-: how involved can it be just to upgrade an exisiting one?
<Tonio-> okay juste let me check at this package ;)
<bmonty> good night everyone
<gabaug> Tonio-: I'm guessing there are some other ones (that depend on this one) that I'd like to upgrade too
<Tonio-> I'll explain to you after
<Tonio-> but where is the official source package ?
<Tonio-> I mean do you have a direct link ?
<gabaug> apt-get source libapache2-mod-perl2 ?
<gabaug> I really don't know
<gabaug> does that not work?
<Tonio-> I mean the new version
<Tonio-> because this one is supposed to be to late no ?
<Tonio-> too old excuse me
<gabaug> oh, yeah, sorry
<Tonio->  -- Andres Salomon <dilinger@debian.org>  Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:28:07 -0400
<Tonio-> not too old
<Tonio-> do you have breezy or hoary ?
<gabaug> http://perl.apache.org/dist/mod_perl-2.0-current.tar.gz
<gabaug> Hoary w/ BP
<Tonio-> well the breezy version is up2date
<gabaug> what version?
<Tonio-> libapache2-mod-perl2 (2.0.1-1)
<gabaug> the one is hoary is 1.99.14 and is from May 21, 2004 :)
<gabaug> wow, ok
<gabaug> hmm
<gabaug> any way to get that backported? or to backport it myself? :)
<Tonio-> hum
<Tonio-> complicated
<Tonio-> because of apache dependancies
<gabaug> well, the apache shipped with hoary is actually supported by that version of mod_perl
<gabaug> I know b/c I built mod_perl 2.0.1 on Hoary with no problem (and the README says it supports the version of Apache Hoary ships with)..
<gabaug> the real issue for me is then installing all the perl libraries that I need...I hate installing them from CPAN b/c they break/won't install and/or then I have two things I have to keep track of upgrade-wise
<Tonio-> I'm gonna send you that just wait
<gabaug> I can't
<gabaug> oh well, I'll install everything manually
<gabaug> and/or move away from mod_perl
<Tonio-> but why don't you compile the module ?
<Tonio-> isn't that easier ?
<gabaug> Tonio-: what do you mean?
<Tonio-> well just compile the sources..........
<gabaug> just build the package like one normally would do if no packaging system existed?
<Tonio-> or wait for breezy (less than one month....)
<gabaug> I've done that for the mdo_perl package and it worked fine
<gabaug> yeah...
<Tonio-> yep
<gabaug> the issue is I have a site I need to get online ASAP
<gabaug> that quite a few users use
<Tonio-> the problem is that I can give you a source package you can easilly build, but you will have to install 15 packages before lol
<gabaug> but I can probably get most of it working w/o using mod_perl, so I'll probably do that
<Tonio-> or create a chroot
<Tonio-> king of pain in the ass
<Tonio-> well, would you get that much improvement with it ?
<LaserJock> hi all, Is it weird to have a package be in it's own build dependency?
<Lathiat> LaserJock: that happens
<Lathiat> LaserJock: often for compilers and things
<Lathiat> LaserJock: what are you looking at?
<LaserJock> smlnj, it is a compiler
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> basically the compiler needs to compile itself
<Lathiat> so it needs to be "bootstrapped"
<Lathiat> if yoru lucky there will be an installable previosu version of the package you can use to do that
<LaserJock> well, that's the thing. pbuilder can't find it
<LaserJock> it says that it need version >=110.51 and it looks like it can get 110.44-1
<LaserJock> I am trying to build 110.52
<Lathiat> ah fun
<Lathiat> well to fix that anyway will require help from the buildd maintainers
<Lathiat> not sure who to talk to about that
<Lathiat> perhaps annoy ajmitch
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I will put it on the UniverseUnmetDeps wiki
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<cogumbreiro> gnight all
<ivoks> jesus... folks at microsoft are needing brain fix
<Treenaks> ivoks: even more?
<ivoks> did you see new office ui?
<ivoks> with menus like:
<ivoks> Bring
<ivoks> to
<ivoks> front
<ivoks> instead of Bring to front
<ivoks> i told them that's fundamentaly wrong and will be great only for chinese and japanese
<ivoks> who read up -> down
<ivoks> and then i got replyed with:
<ivoks> Thanks for raising the issue and look forward to hearing comments down the road once you actually have a Chinese/Japanese build to play with.
<ivoks> only thing i could say
<ivoks> I'm not Asian but this new UI will be great for Asians. And, don't be disappointed, I won't be testing any Office or Ms product. I just wanted to tell you how bad your UI is.
<ivoks> http://mark.smugmug.com/photos/35597918-O.jpg - this is just to hard to swallow :)
<ajmitch> hi koke
<pef> hi
<Mithrandir> j^: what's the state of NM?
<j^> Mithrandir tell me
<Mithrandir> I thought you were hacking on it?
<j^> Mithrandir i am, still my packages is not uploaded to universe and nobody can tell me why
<ajmitch> probably just miscommunication..
<Mithrandir> j^: where are they?  I'll take a look and upload after I've gotten a few other issues out of the way.
<j^> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=514
<j^> Mithrandir i do whatever is needed, someone just has to tell me what that is.
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: tseng and I uploaded already fwiw.
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: ook
<j^> Nafallo but that was 10 days ago..
<Nafallo> j^: more I believe? :-)
<j^> i travelled many wifi hotspots since
<Nafallo> j^: why do you move the init-scripts?
<Nafallo> (re: NM) ;-)
<j^> Nafallo avahi has it that way and i looked good to me :)
<j^> *it
<Lathiat> hehe
<Nafallo> j^: well, hal and PowerManager have not :-P
<Lathiat> j^: did you include my reload hack
<j^> Lathiat i have that is in ubuntu5, which is only at http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ right now
<Nafallo> it's on REVU to
<j^> Nafallo right
* Lathiat is glad to see dhcdbd got fixed
<Lathiat> silly thing had a * * * dbus system config
<j^> it was fixed in fedora, just that 1.8 was never uploaded to http://people.redhat.com/jvdias/dhcdbd/
<Lathiat> ah
<hunger> fabbione: Are you sure the /dev/input/mice issue is udev-related?
<hunger> fabbione: I see it almost always when using the ubuntu 2.6.12 kernel and never when using a custom 2.6.13.
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> morning ajmitch
<Lathiat> ajmitch: had a chance to look at the avahi mono stuff?
<ajmitch> nope
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> buildds busy? :-)
<Nafallo> gcc, xorg, oo.o2
<Nafallo> something tells me I'm right :-P
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it'd only take a few minutes :)
<\sh> Copying source file -> copying [pdumpfs-rsync_0.8.1-1ubuntu1_source.changes]  -> copying [./admin] 
<\sh> hmmm...
<Lathiat> ajmitch: ok, whenever ;)
<\sh> is it me, or is my pbuilder fcking around?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: well what differences are there apart from avahi-sharp in 0.5?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: should be no packaging differences
<ajmitch> and do you have any 0.5 deb material, or should I update myself? :)
<Lathiat> i suppose i can do the rest ;)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> bzr then? ;)
<Lathiat> we bumped a few sonames
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> evil
<Lathiat> i have no idea of the way to handle the transition in the package name
<ajmitch> :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: perhaps add the mono stuff, send me a diff and i'll send it to ross who can sort the rest out ;)
<ajmitch> is the lib not backwards compatible?
<ajmitch> read the debian library packaging guide?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: nope
* ajmitch is just determining whether to I have to beat you round with the libtool manual, as the guide suggests
<Lathiat> oh we've read that
* Lathiat had to re-read it about 5 times
<Lathiat> new functions, 1 removed function
<ajmitch> ok, so 1 removed.. I guess that's an SONAME bump
<ajmitch> it's not something I've had a lot of experience with
<\sh> Nafallo: could u check pdumpfs-rsync please? remove the tightened install-deps from control
<\sh> Nafallo: in pbuilder that is..
<Lathiat> ajmitch: If any interfaces have been added, removed, or changed since the last update, increment current, and set revision to 0.
* \sh is actually too tired 
<Lathiat> and the package names appear to match the current number
* Lathiat shrugs
<Lathiat> im really ignorant of th ewhole thing
<ajmitch> Lathiat: :)
<Nafallo> \sh: apt-gets source :-)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: well I've at least got avahi checked out from avn
<ajmitch> svn
<\sh> Nafallo: yes..
<Lathiat> ajmitch: well, you really want the 0.5 tarball
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I know :)
<\sh> wow...my eyes are really small...
<\sh> looks like I had a nice party yesterday
<ajmitch> hm, laptop battery light is flashing red :)
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: find pwoer? ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it means I have to walk upstairs
<Lathiat> alternatively, power may be a good idea
<\sh> ajmitch: hmm...I wasn't drunk around 1am UTC?
<ajmitch> \sh: not that I could tell ;)
<\sh> good..so no nice party
<ajmitch> heheh
* \sh needs a surgery before UBZ
<\sh> to look as pretty as ever
<Nafallo> \sh: in pbuilder?
<\sh> Nafallo: yes
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch has still to decide if he's going to UBZ
<\sh> ajmitch: holi inn is full...
<ajmitch> I know
<\sh> ajmitch: but u could sleep with treenaks in the hostel 10 mins from the hotel
<ajmitch> probably too expensive for me anyway
<ajmitch> I was going to try there :)
<ajmitch> only $20/night
<\sh> ajmitch: 150 CAN $ last time i checked
<\sh> prefered rate ;)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> so I'd have to pay for my food as well
<ajmitch> dunno if I could get into the dinner with you guys
* ajmitch could always crash on the floor of \sh's room ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: no problem with me
<ajmitch> hotel probably wouldn't like it
<ajmitch> we were 2 to a room in UDU anyway
<\sh> ajmitch: if you can accept that I'm snorring after I drank ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> just joking
<\sh> ajmitch: so a third person doesn't matter ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: I could take my usb hd with me..to have good music after the party ;)
<ajmitch> mm
<\sh> ajmitch: 300W 2.1 satellite speakers...should be ok ;)
<ajmitch> nice :)
<\sh> from classic, over heavy metal, oldies, pop, rock, trance to instrumentals...all you can eat ,-)
<ajmitch> well the cheque from work cleared now, so I could buy tickets on monday to montreal
<ajmitch> if I wanted to ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: u want ;)
<ajmitch> I do, really :)
<ajmitch> but $1700US of flights is expensive
<ajmitch> just to do a week of insane work :)
<\sh> ajmitch: what would u do with the money instead?
<ajmitch> pay off my student loan :)
<\sh> u can do that later ;)
<ajmitch> or buy that new amd64 box for compiling
<\sh> ajmitch: u can do that later ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> yay, new gnome-torrent from koke ;)
<ajmitch> with his crazy hackergotchi on planet ubuntu
<Treenaks> people need to take pictures of me at UBZ
<Treenaks> so I can get a 'gotchi too
* ajmitch only has bad photos from UDU
<\sh> listening to Kiss - Almost Human
<ajmitch> none that I'd want used as a hackergotchi
* ajmitch is listening to a local group
* ajmitch has visited a grand total of 2 countries
<koke> ajmitch: :)
<koke> not much changes
<koke> but it has 4 translations no
<koke> now
<Nafallo> morning slomo
<\sh> hey slomo
<ajmitch> hey slomo
<ajmitch> yay, elections tomorrow
<ajmitch> we can stop hearing about all the political crap here soon ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: we have elections on the 18th
<slomo> hi Nafallo, ajmitch, \sh :)
<\sh> another cigarette and then shower time
<\sh> building acl2 in the meantime
<\sh> morning ogra btw ;)
* ajmitch looks around for an ogra
<\sh> he's awake..just so his comment on the 14967 bug ;)
<\sh> Additional Comments From ogra@ubuntu.com  2005-09-16 11:46 UTC
<\sh> s/so/saw/
<ajmitch> aha
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> so bug day officially starts in an hour
<ogra> yes, i'm late today
<ajmitch> someone want to send out a reminder for people to participate? :)
<ajmitch> how are you ogra?
<ogra> fine thanks...
<Lathiat> bug day hey
<Lathiat> i might have to do something
<ajmitch> Lathiat!
<ajmitch> we've got a *pile* of bugs on malone
<ajmitch> I can probably close all the zope ones now
<Lathiat> can i get some permissions to modify bugs or something then?
<ajmitch> although I might ask doko & kobold for confimation there..
<ajmitch> ogra: give the man editbugs :)
<ogra> oh, yes, indeed
<ajmitch> thanks
<\sh> and I think when ogra and I won't get much sleep we will look like dried frogs someday
<Lathiat> mark * bug: gtk
<ogra> Lathiat, err, you seem to have two accounts, which one is right ?
<Lathiat> ogra: on launchpad?
<ogra> bugzilla
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> what are the emails?
<ajmitch> \sh: you're going to stay up all weekend for bug fixing
<ajmitch> ?
<ogra> lathiat@bur.st and ubuntu@lathiat-spam.bur.st
<Lathiat> ogra: ah, lathiat@bur.st is right
<ogra> oki
* Lathiat wonders what he created the other one for
<\sh> ajmitch: me, myself and I? no...I have to go back to work on monday, so the weekend will be another relaxing situation
<ajmitch> \sh: ah ok
<ogra> done
<ajmitch> \sh: I've got a lot of work to do as well
<ajmitch> so my bug contributions may be limited :(
<Lathiat> i have a lot of.. avoiding lectures to do, so i'll try do what i can :)
<\sh> ajmitch: but I will see what I can do for some hours
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I'm sure you can do that ;)
<\sh> or getting finished with unmet deps
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
<ajmitch> we've got a bit list there
<ajmitch> s/bit/big/
<ajmitch> and a number of unassigned bugs to process
<Lathiat> close * resolution: CANTBEBOTHERED :) *bug day finished*
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, I'll do my debian uploads & then ask elmo for syncs of 10 of my packages :)
<ajmitch> maybe just 9
<\sh> oh my old friends mysql-admin and mysql-query-browser
<ajmitch> evil
<Lathiat> malone is really getting quite nifty
<Lathiat> things like CVE references on bugs
<ajmitch> as long as they don't break malone this weekend, I'll be happy :)
<Lathiat> heh
* Lathiat closes his first bug, not that I did any work for it
<Lathiat> ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> what bug #?
<Lathiat> malone  1559/breezy
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> that'll be a big part of the bug day, cleaning up malone & bugzilla
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> can i tell apt-get sourc
<Lathiat> e
<Lathiat> to get from "hoary" rather than "breezy"
<ajmitch> Lathiat: can you CC pitti on that bug?
<Lathiat> as i have both in my sources list
<Lathiat> ajmitch: how do i do that?
<ajmitch> apt-get source package/hoary ?
<ajmitch> subscribe pitti to the bug?
<Lathiat> nifty
<Lathiat> i'm really liking this
<ajmitch> ok, I've CCed pitti
<Lathiat> bah
<Lathiat> so did i
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> well it only does it once
<Lathiat> E: Unable to find a source package for trac/hoary
<Lathiat> hrm
<ajmitch> ok, so that doesn't work :)
<ajmitch> -t hoary ?
<Lathiat> that didnt work either
<Lathiat> so i did
<Lathiat> trac=0.8-1ubuntu1
<Lathiat> after using policy to find the version
<ajmitch> :)
<Lathiat> be nice if i could use the distro tho
<Nafallo> Lathiat: tip. apt-cache madison package :-)
<Lathiat> madison?
<Nafallo> yepp
<Lathiat> oh, nifty
<Lathiat> any other hidden commands i shoudl know about
<\sh> what is it?
<Nafallo> hehe, that's how I felt when pitti showed me that ;-)
<Lathiat> \sh: try it ;)
<\sh> tried it ;)
* ajmitch looks for any action on security-review this week
<ajmitch> \sh: you got rezound to build with no issues?
* ajmitch recalls having some issues with it
* Lathiat is sure hes fixed that package twice
<ajmitch> hehe
<\sh> ajmitch: yes
* \sh is brb
* ajmitch closes the 2 rezound bugs on malone :)
<ajmitch> bddebian & I both had it randomly failing testing for -lm
<ajmitch> so I guess something magically fixed it
<slomo> magic fixes are never good... the bugs tend to come back later ;)
<ajmitch> yeah :)
* ajmitch decides to listen to some pink floyd for a change :)
* Lathiat also prepares his first universe security fix
<Lathiat> its a day of firsts ;)
<ajmitch> yay
<Nafallo> Lathiat: gl :-)
<Lathiat> now i have to install hoary on something ;p
* ajmitch has hoary somewhere
<Lathiat> anyone here use trac on hoary? ;)
<Nafallo> Lathiat: naah, just install a hoary-pbuilder :-)
* Lathiat hugs vmware
<Nafallo> baah. costs money ;-). nothing for me :-P.
<Lathiat> new beta includes 64bit support too which is nifty
<Lathiat> Nafallo: hah, beta program ;)
<ajmitch> vmware1435@lathiats.domain? ;)
* Lathiat whistles
<Lathiat> the beta program one if legit tho ;p
<ajmitch> :D
<ajmitch> sure...
<ajmitch> they all say that ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<Mithrandir> pbuilder is also much faster than vmware
<ajmitch> hi jinty
<Nafallo> haha
<Nafallo> OO.o2 made synaptic show the terminal thingie :-P
<Lathiat> Mithrandir: yeh but pbuilder is no good for testing it
<Lathiat> Mithrandir: and testing security uploads is kinda essential ;)
<Mithrandir> Lathiat: just a regular chroot works for that
<Nafallo> Lathiat: sudo pbuilder login :-)
<jinty> hoi ajmitch
<ogra> hey jinty
<jinty> hi ogra
<jinty> hi all!
<Nafallo> morning jinty :-)
<ogra> jinty, i made schooltools init scripts lsb compliant... if you got any benefit from having a patch fro that, i can send it to you
<jinty> hello world;)
* Nafallo installs network-manager
<jinty> ogra sure, if it works, I'll apply it
<ogra> (its very ubuntu specific, debian doesnt use lsb by default afauk)
<ogra> afaik even
<jinty> isn't there an lsb-xxx package I can depend on in debian?
<\sh> back
<ogra> i guess so... should be lsb-base if its there
<ogra> yup, http://packages.debian.org/unstable/misc/lsb-base
<jinty> why all the interest from ubuntu in schooltool lately?
<ogra> jinty, edubuntu :)
<jinty> ah
<ogra> jinty, i install it by default there
<ogra> its one of my core server components alongside moodle...
<jinty> is there an edubuntu channel?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> #edubuntu
<tseng> clever
<jinty> have you got moodle to authenticate off schooltool yet?
<ogra> nope, i didnt know thats possible
<ajmitch> tseng: someone willing to help with bugday, who has an amd64
<ajmitch> anything useful he can do?
<tseng> hrm we fixed that mono one
<ajmitch> or has slomo fixed most of the amd64isms?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> and i filed thema ll upstream
<ajmitch> k
<slomo> ajmitch: all amd64 bugs should be fixed... except the vte-one which is not logic ;)
<ajmitch> if any of you have time to help out in #ubuntu-bugs over the next couple of days, please do so
<tseng> i can i can do my usual darting in and out answering quick ?s
<ajmitch> great
<tseng> probably nothing spectacular
<\sh> I will prepare a new wine package
<ajmitch> I think we just need people around to help those who want to help
* ajmitch is planning to sleep soon
<\sh> when is it officially starting? now?
<ajmitch> officially? in 12 minutes ;)
<ajmitch> if you take NZST as the starting timezone :)
<\sh> k
<Nafallo> New Zealand Summer Time?
<ajmitch> only TZ I know that's ahead of NZST is NZCHAT
<ajmitch> standard time
<ajmitch> UTC+12
<Nafallo> CHAT?
<ajmitch> chatham islands
<Nafallo> hmm
* Nafallo hugs CEST ;-)
<\sh> NICE wine .orig.tar from winehq with 2.9KB/s
<\sh> wtf
<ajmitch> wow
<ajmitch> fast
* Lathiat is jealous
<\sh> ajmitch: the first 4MB was with 500kB/s
<\sh> and then it drops above lightspeed ;)
<\sh> and acl2 is evil as well
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch can only get 200KB/sec here
<\sh> I have to update to 6Mbit/s ;)
<slomo> when i take a bug in malone... shall i assign it to me?
<ajmitch> yeah, NZ has a poor broadband record :)
<ajmitch> slomo: no
<\sh> but I'm struggling with ordering sdl here...4Mbit/s down, 2 mbit/s up
<Nafallo> hmm
<ajmitch> slomo: set bug as Accepted
<\sh> sdsl even
* Lathiat has 1.5mbit/s down, 256kbit/s up
<ajmitch> slomo: but leave it assigned to MOTU
<slomo> ok
<Lathiat> and thats top fo the line
<Lathiat> :)
<Nafallo> I have ~50KB/s atm ;-)
<slomo> i'll take the certificate one ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: that way we see the bug activity on universe-bugs
<\sh> Nafallo: lol ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: here 2048/128 is standard for ISPs reselling
<Lathiat> ajmitch: ouch on the upload
<Nafallo> hmm, I will have 3MB/s on monday probably :-)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: problem is 1.5/256 is the max telstra will go
<Lathiat> ajmitch: altho thats changing at some point
<Nafallo> i.e. 24Mbit :-)
<Lathiat> but only because independant ISPs rolling out their own 8mbit-capable dslams have forced there hand
<Lathiat> Nafallo: i hate you :)
<Nafallo> Lathiat: read my blog and you will hate me more ;-)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: no LLU here, so no other DSLAM rollouts
<Lathiat> url?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: llu?
<Nafallo> Lathiat: planet.debian.org :-P
<ajmitch> Lathiat: although telecom has started transitioning to a fully IP network
<Nafallo> Lathiat: or http://www.livejournal.com/~nafallo/ ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yes, we do hate you
<\sh> ok...grabbing my clothes from the washing machine ,) brb
<ajmitch> Nafallo: planet debian? are you sure?
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> planet.ubuntu.com rather ;-)
<ajmitch> ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: nice catch ;-)
* ajmitch could get on planet debian if he had a blog worth talking about ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: you are on planet ubuntu, right?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> I'm on no planet
<Nafallo> ajmitch: baah. go fetch jdub :-P
* ajmitch watches the clock count down
<ajmitch> IT'S BUG DAY, EVERYONE! :D
<Lathiat> Nafallo: hah, i really do hate you ;)
<Lathiat> so you have adsl2+
<Lathiat> nice
* ajmitch cracks whip
<Nafallo> Lathiat: not yet, my Internet having crashed yet ;-).
<Nafallo> haven't even
<Lathiat> heh
<Nafallo> ETA monday :-P
<ajmitch> ok, we'll do the hating on monday then
<Nafallo> hehe
* ajmitch will let it simmer & get bitter all weekend ;)
<Lathiat> ffs
<Lathiat> gnome-terminal is bad today
<ajmitch> Lathiat: with screen & irssi?
<Lathiat> keeps doing that stupid irssi/screen blanking thing constantly
<Lathiat> yeh
* ajmitch gave up on it
<Nafallo> I hope the rumours about the ISP isn't true :-/
<Lathiat> its happening like every time i bother restarting it now
<Lathiat> it usually happens a couple times a day
<ajmitch> happened each time I wanted to use the laptop
<ajmitch> Nafallo: what have you heard about them?
<Nafallo> they say they vlan every ip to a central server.
<ajmitch> uh, why?
<Nafallo> so if I would like to have all clients have their own global ip, I might end up with 1Mbit on a 100Mbit switch :-P
<ajmitch> eww
<Lathiat> haha
<Nafallo> "to protect the customers from each other" ;-)
<Lathiat> that sounds as bad as ajmitch's university
<ajmitch> Lathiat: hey now
<Lathiat> altho at least their entire city of customers isnt on the same broadcast domain
<ajmitch> Lathiat: they're moving to vlans as well :)
<Nafallo> I know what to do about it anyway :-P
<Nafallo> eth0.x on the router ;-)
<Nafallo> and DNAT :-)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: city? probably only a few thousand systems :)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: ipv6 all the way ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hmm, tunnel from a provider?
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> ajmitch: no i mean
<Nafallo> then I should go for the static ip then :-P
<Lathiat> ajmitch: at least his isp doesn't link his whole citys adsl customers on the same braodcast domain ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: aha, that would be nasty :)
<ajmitch> but less likely with ADSL
<ajmitch> compared to cable
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> yeh
<Nafallo> hmm, the isp I had before did that :-)
<ajmitch> only time I've used cable was optus in melbourne, at a friend's place
<Nafallo> I scanned the whole net for services and checked out what OS ppl where using ;-)
<Lathiat> Nafallo: heh
<Nafallo> lot's of linux :-P
<Lathiat> a friend of mine
* ajmitch burned through most of his 'unlimited' cap the day before we were doing a zope sprint ;)
<Lathiat> used to steal IPs
<Nafallo> lol
<\sh> argl
<\sh> after 2hours
<\sh> Transcript written on texput.log.
<\sh> This is dvips(k) 5.92b Copyright 2002 Radical Eye Software (www.radicaleye.com)
<\sh> dvips: ! DVI file can't be opened.
<Lathiat> so he had like 10ips
<ajmitch> oh evil
<Nafallo> \sh: you say "argl" a lot ;-)
<Lathiat> that be "borrowed"
<Lathiat> and someone else i know
<Lathiat> "borrowed" 300 ips
<Lathiat> the cable co noticed
<Lathiat> ;p
<ajmitch> Nafallo: would you prefer argc? argv?
<\sh> ajmitch: yes..
<Nafallo> ajmitch: yes :-)
<ajmitch> **kwargs :)
<Nafallo> Lathiat: haha
<\sh> ok..preparing first new wine uploads
<Lathiat> \sh: nice
<ajmitch> Lathiat: mm, 300 is quite a few :)
<Nafallo> \sh: with amd64 support? :-P
<\sh> Nafallo: haha
<slomo> ok, so nobody knows where to get the canonical ca certificate? ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: ask sabdfl or something :-P
<ajmitch> slomo: ask sabdfl
<ajmitch> he's in #u-d at the moment
<ajmitch> I heard that he knows a little about such things ;)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: nah thats wrong
<Lathiat> ajmitch: you've been mis-informed!
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> but.. but.. he said..!
<Nafallo> :-D
<slomo> ok, thanks ;) let's see if he knows :P
<\sh> grmpf
<Nafallo> wow
* Nafallo likes the new NM :-)
* ajmitch will always associate NM with debian new maintainer :P
<Nafallo> baah ;-)
<Nafallo> NetM :-)
<\sh> hmm...20050830 is very bleeding edge for ubuntu ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: of wine?
<\sh> jepp
<\sh> i don't mind ;) it's stable release ;)
<ajmitch> sure, but UVF...
<ajmitch> what will ogra say? ;)
<\sh> ogra: wine-0.0.20050830? ok with u?
<ogra> yup
<\sh> thx
<Nafallo> ajmitch: "yup" :-)
<ogra> guys, you are delegates... decide yourself ;)
<\sh> ogra: u r the boss ;)
<ogra> ah, come on, we're a team
<\sh> ogra: teasing ;)
<ogra> *g*
<ogra> not necessary :)
<ajmitch> ogra: I know we're delegates, I was just joking :)
* ajmitch wonders if there was an official list of them, or if all MOTUs end up being de facto delegates :)
<Lathiat> what do we do about things that have been removed from unstable
<Lathiat> howl was nuked from orbit today
<Lathiat> not that im trying to kill off the competition or anything
<ajmitch> is howl in ubuntu?
<ogra> ajmitch, that was a ad hoc delegation for the UVF stuff, i didnt make a list
<ajmitch> yes you are ;)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh
<Lathiat> only 1 thing depends on it
<Lathiat> gnome-user-share
<ajmitch> fix it to depend on avahi
<Lathiat> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=302462
<ajmitch> you know you want to
<Lathiat> gnome-user-share is an ubuntu specifi cpackage
<Lathiat> not in debian
<lamont> Rejected: acidwarp_1.0-5ubuntu1_i386.deb: has 1 file(s) with a time stamp too ancient (e.g. usr/share/man/man6/acidwarp.6.gz [Fri Jan  4 06:54:14 1980] ).
<lamont> GO ACIDWARP!
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> 1980 hey
<ajmitch> ooh nice
<Lathiat> nice?
<Lathiat> doh ive gone over my peak quota
* Nafallo will have no quota ;-)
* Nafallo has no quota either :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: be quiet now :P
* Lathiat kicks Nafallo 
<Nafallo> hehe
<Lathiat> i'll kill ya, i'll kill ALL OF YA
* ajmitch looks for the tar & feathers
<Nafallo> Lathiat: you know what \sh has at work? :-P
* Nafallo tries to lead the anger away from himself ;-
<Nafallo> ;-)
<Lathiat> Nafallo: what?
<Nafallo> Lathiat: 1Gbit/s IIRC :-)
<Lathiat> heh
<Nafallo> Lathiat: and no quota :-P
<ajmitch> sorry, but you still have to die ;)
<Lathiat> HEH
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> :-P
* Mithrandir only has a 3Mbit or so at home ATM.
<Lathiat> so
<Lathiat> Mithrandir: ONLY :)
<Mithrandir> yeah, uncapped too.
* Lathiat has 1.5 and isn't going to get it any faster, so ner. oh and a 10GB/10GB quota
<Lathiat> $70aud/mo
<Mithrandir> that's about the same as we're paying.
<Lathiat> i hate you
* Lathiat would go for uncapped 1.5
<ajmitch> Lathiat: do you hate me too?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: your quota is as bad as mine isnt it?
<ajmitch> with my 10GB cap (combined up/down)
* Mithrandir ruffles Lathiat 
<Lathiat> *up* and down?
<Lathiat> ouch
<Lathiat> i feel sorry for you
<ajmitch> hey dholbach!
* Lathiat only has down counted, and gets an extra 10GB for midnight-7am
<Nafallo> hmm
<dholbach> hellas
<\sh> dholbach: fixed your centericq sync ;)
* ajmitch leads the motu cheerleading squad in welcoming dholbach 
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: sounds we should _never_ leave scandinavia ;-)
<Lathiat> gimme a D
<dholbach> owoohoo :)
<dholbach> YEAH! :)
<dholbach> finally internet from home
<Nafallo> morning dholbach :-)
<\sh> MAIN work now ;)
<Lathiat> hah
<ajmitch> Nafallo: unless you move to japan or korea :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: great!
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: I'm just hoping UBZ will have > 0 bandwidth.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: unlike UDU? :)
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: like, 512kbit?
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: ehm... what part of "Below Zero" did you now get? ;-)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: well, it can't possibly have worse latency, at least.
<ajmitch> dholbach: ready to handle bug day?
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: it's going to be warm there, so it's obviously not referring to temperature
<dholbach> ajmitch: let me take it slow :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: ok, I'll give you a couple of minutes to get started then :)
<\sh> dholbach: take over my wine duty ;)
<\sh> dholbach: I'm just trying to package amarok 1.3.1
<dholbach> man... let me breathe :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: hehe ok
<\sh> dholbach: today's \sh teasing day
<ajmitch> ok, time for me to sleep
* ajmitch will be up in the morning to vote & close bugs ;)
<Lathiat> how do i sign an already generated source package?
<slomo> Lathiat: debsign
<Lathiat> slomo: ah thanks
* Lathiat was looking for dpkg*
<dholbach> who wants to do a follow up on the bug day announce? a reminder? :)
<doko> slomo: drpython: the wx docs are still accessed online, not from the docs dir. an even better fix would be to check, if the docs are installed, and fallback to online
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | First priority: FIX REMAINING TRANSITIONS! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions | please check: http://tinyurl.com/btwff | It's the BUGDAY! :)
<slomo> doko: i've done that... and it shows the local docs for me ;)
<slomo> doko: did you install wx2.6-docs?
<dholbach> everybody who wants to be involved in the bugday, join us on #ubuntu-bugs :)
<slomo> doko: wx2.6-doc even
<doko> slomo: ok, but you have to restart drpython
<doko> after installing the docs
<slomo> doko: yes... the paths are filled at the start of drpython
<doko> ok
<slomo> doko: as it was before with the non-local paths too
<slomo> doko: i wanted to change as less as possible
<doko> ok
<doko> thanks for the patch
<slomo> np :) did you find someone for packaging the regexp stuff?
<Lathiat> if im working on a bug in malone
<Lathiat> should i take it from being assigned to MOTU and assign to me?
<slomo> Lathiat: just accept it and leave it assigned to motu
<\sh> ok..guys...
<\sh> deb http://archive.linux-server.org/ breezy/i386/
<slomo> \sh: for what?
<\sh> to your sources.list , update, upgrade and run amarok ;)
<\sh> 1.3.1
<\sh> wine postponed ;)
<slomo> \sh: i don't want amarok... i don't want qt... and i don't want kde ;P
<\sh> slomo: do it for me baby ;)
<Lathiat> slomo: ok
<bddebian> Heya
<Lathiat> for dh_installinit
<Lathiat> does it install some default runleve
<Lathiat> l
<Lathiat> if its not specified anywhere
* bddebian is too dumb to know that :-(
<slomo> Lathiat: no idea... it isn't that clear from the manpage ;)
<jamessan|work> why wouldn't you specify the runlevel?
<dholbach> how are plans for beagle 0.1.0?
<\sh> ok..wine 20050830 is building
<Lathiat> slomo: mm i figured it out
<slomo> dholbach: i would update it but tseng is maintainer of beagle in debian and for us so i wait for him ;)
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> does it work for you?
<slomo> but i think he wants to update it for breezy :)
<slomo> no idea... i don't use beagle... i know where my stuff is and need nothing to search for it ;)
<dholbach> me too
<dholbach>  :)
<dholbach> i just thought people erm ... might like it :)
<slomo> sure... they will love it probably =)
<ivoks> hello
<slomo> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> to translate apps on LP, i should form loco team?
<slomo> translation team... yes... or join the one for your language
<ivoks> there is none :)
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<slomo> then form one and tell some LP guru to add your team to the ubuntu translators team or how it was called ;)
<ivoks> ah..
<ivoks> no need for CC?
<dholbach> guys the party is on #ubuntu-bugs... not here :)
<slomo> ivoks: no idea
<ivoks> :)
<slomo> dholbach: ok, i'll join... but i can't do much today... must learn for my math exam :(
<bddebian> dholbach: :-)
<dholbach> slomo: on monday?
<slomo> dholbach: friday... and i haven't done anything yet :()
* dholbach pushes slomo out of the channel, prepares him a tea and hands him a couple of books :)
<slomo> dholbach: no books... i just need paper, a pencil and some pdfs ;)
<slomo> but thanks for the tea :)
<dholbach> then print them and get yourself in the library
<slomo> why? because there is less "ablenkung"? (hm, how's this called in english?)
<\sh> distraction
<slomo> can someone test what host -t MX slomosnail.de says for you?
<Nafallo> slomosnail.de mail is handled by 10 m34s25.vlinux.de.
<\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/packages/amarok/debian/patchwork/amarok-1.3.1/amarok/src/engine/gst/config$ host -t mx slomosnail.de
<\sh> slomosnail.de mail is handled by 10 m34s25.vlinux.de.
<Nafallo> \sh: nice path ;-)
<slomo> thanks... then it's just old dns cache for the ubuntu mail servers ;) katie and malone stuff gets to my old isp currently :(
<slomo> same for the mailinglists
<\sh> Nafallo: well..I'm working ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: /exec -o dude ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: well...I forgot all those nice ircII features long ago...now I'm on hand work ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<zyga> siretart: ping
<\sh> zyga: siretart is on holiday
<zyga> \sh: ah, I wanted to get into revu
<zyga> \sh: I read the wiki page and wanted to submit my gpg key
<\sh> zyga: hmmm..sistopy could help you when he is here
<\sh> slomo: libmms promoted...2 MOTUs == upload
<\sh> 2
<\sh> I need some sleep before I discuss with mdz
<dholbach> i'm out for a bit of shopping, brb
<jginz> howdy.
<jginz> anybody mind helping out a neophyte with a question probably out of the league of the normal neophyte channel?
<jginz> there's a patch to openssh that i'd like to apply to it and then rebuild the deb file...
<jginz> i've been reading every debian and ubuntu resource i can find, but nothing quite seems to work...
<Lathiat> jginz: apt-get source openssh; go into the build dir and apply the patch then edit the changelog (you might use 'dch -i' to do this), give it a custom version e.g. <version>+jginz and run debuild, dont forget to apt-get build-dep openssh
<jginz> whoa. okay -- let me go try that...
<jginz> i was going the dpatch route... that sounds much easier...
<NotThomMay> hey, anyone cosidered adding http://freshmeat.net/projects/gimpshop/ as a package?
<ivoks> why would we have 2 same packages? :)
<NotThomMay> qua?
<jginz> Lathiat: I applied the patch, modified openssh-3.9p1/Changelog to add my entry, modified version.h to give it a custom version, renamed the source tree dir to match that custom version, went into the source tree dir and ran "sudo pdebuild", but it failed out saying dpatch could not be found -- i have dpatch, but i imagine that from the chroot, it can't find it...
<jginz> again i'm sorry for the neophyte questions -- i've never build a deb package before...
<ivoks> jginz: did you change debian/rules?
<jginz> ivoks: no -- what changes need be made?
<ivoks> it must include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
<ogra> NotThomMay, yes, i wanted to package it, but i'm missing te time to do that
<ivoks> jginz: and you modified wrong changelog
<ivoks> jginz: you should modify openssh-3.9p1/debian/changelog
<ivoks> and you don't change source tree name
<jginz> ivoks: thank you... will go try again...
<ivoks> jginz: upstream source must remain untouched
<ivoks> jginz: all changes go in debian/ directory
<Lathiat> jginz: you want to modify debian/changelog, and dont bother renaming the dir, and yes put the patch in debian/patches/<file>
* Lathiat -> sleep
<bddebian> If a package wants the path to an app in configure, what's the best way to find it without hardcoding a path?
<ivoks> which :)
<bddebian> ivoks: which what? ;-)
<ivoks> bddebian: which app_name
<ivoks> bddebian: for example, which firefox
<ivoks> and save it in variable
<bddebian> ivoks: It doesn't work :-(
<jginz> ivoks and Lathiat: got it worked out -- thanks for your help... i'll definitely blog about my experience so it's googleable...
<dcraven> I'm getting the lintian error "changelog-file-not-compressed".. I'm assuming that there is a way to compress the ChangeLog in the build process correct?
<dcraven> Also, I want to adopt a package from UniverseCandidates (starting with my own app). I currently have a .deb for it, but I'm trying to clean up lintian moaning (see above). Should I be moving this program from the "Source Location" list to the "already Handled or being handled" list found at UniverseCandidates?
<jamessan|work> dcraven: a call to dh_compress should handle that
<dcraven> jamessan|work: Oh good :). Cheers for that.
<j^> Nafallo so you think to have scripts with numbers in /etc/dbus-1/event.d is the right thing for the long run?
<jbailey> I know how to do syncs for things that are already in Ubuntu.  Do I have to do anything special to sync something that *isn't* in Ubuntu but is in Debian?
<jbailey> apparently there's a linux-dvb-headers package that isn't over.
<jbailey> Or is there a list of packages that haven't made it and reasons why?
<dholbach> jbailey: just ask elmo to sync it
<dholbach> jbailey: they might have hit debian after out auto-syncs
<jbailey> dholbach: 'k, thanks.
<dholbach> de rien :)
<chillywilly> hi jeffy
<dcraven> Should a deb be lintian-warning-free before accepted by MOTU? I get the binary-without-manpage warning, aside from that.. All clean.
<dcraven> s/accepted/reviewed
<dholbach> manpages are good :)
<chillywilly> wtfm ;)
<dcraven> dholbach: Somehow I knew you'd say that :)
<dholbach> you can put it up for review no matter how advanced your package is
<dholbach> you can let it be reviewed while you work on it
<dholbach> that's no problem
<jbailey> Heya Danny-boy
<dholbach> did you read wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU?
<dholbach> jbailey: i hope you're not talking to ME? ;-p
<dcraven> dholbach: I have it open in my browser. Does that count? :P
<dholbach> jbailey: how are you?
<dholbach> dcraven: that's a good start :)
<dcraven> heh
<dcraven> dholbach: I figured I'd work on the lintian issues since it'll need doing eventually.
<jbailey> dholbach: *lol*
<jbailey> dholbach: No, answering chillywilly. =)
<jbailey> dholbach: I'm well, tired.
<jbailey> dholbach: There were some crazy heat waves that have finally stopped.  Angie's away this weekend so I'll catch up on stuff. =)
<jbailey> dholbach: you?
<dholbach> jbailey: i had quite a difficult time without internet, but finally after some tantrums, i finally live in berlin AND have internet ;)
<dholbach> jbailey: i'll catch up on the weekend too, i'm fine, thanks :)
<jbailey> Cool. =)
<jbailey> I'm sad that I didn't make it to the Berlin Love Festival.
<jbailey> Do you think they'll ever have it again?
<dholbach> if they manage to clean up after themselves, i'm quite sure they'll make it :)
<dcraven> dholbach: Are you saying that I should be registering as an uploader as per the REVU page? I assumed some qualifications were required for that.
<neoliminal> Hi, someone told me this is where I ask for things to be included in universe.
<dholbach> dcraven: write a signed mail to siretart
<dcraven> dholbach: Okay.
<dholbach> neoliminal: wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates is for that - what do you want us to include?
<chillywilly> danny boy the pipes, the pipes are calling
<chillywilly> oh*
<neoliminal> gimpShop.
<dholbach> neoliminal: what is it about?
<dholbach> a photoshop-like thing for the gimp?
<neoliminal> It's a version of gimp that has all the tools in the same places you'd find them in photoshop.
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> is it a "plugin" or a "fork"?
<neoliminal> It makes the transition to Gimp much easier.
<neoliminal> fork.
<neoliminal> was a plugin.
<dholbach> is it well-maintained?
<neoliminal> now it's a fork.
<neoliminal> Yes.
<neoliminal> slashdot just did a story on it.
<dholbach> would you like to take care of it?
<neoliminal> you can check it yourself.
<neoliminal> I'm not sure what that means.
<dholbach> we'd help you get there :)
<neoliminal> :)
<neoliminal> Tell me what is involved.
<dholbach> usually packages are better maintained by people who have a desperate need for those tools
<dholbach> so if you'd get some help in packaging it up, you'd update it every now and then, report bugs to upstream, try to tackle some thing yourself, ... :)
<dholbach> generally that's what a maintainer's life is about :)
<neoliminal> :)
<dholbach> i'm not quite sure, if i could handle a package i wouldn't use
<dholbach> ... don't use ...
<dholbach> but it sounds useful
<neoliminal> Yes, I see the advantages.
<neoliminal> The only real problem here is that I'm really a graphics guy...
<neoliminal> Kinda scared of the whole unixy thing
<neoliminal> Is it hard to maintain a package?
<dholbach> i see :)
<dholbach> if you don't like it, that's no problem
<dholbach> i wouldn't push you into it
<dholbach> just offer it to you
<neoliminal> I'm honoured.
<neoliminal> But scared.
<dholbach> you can also just add it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates :)
<dcraven> dholbach: About, UniverseCandidates.. The package I'm working on is listed there already. Should I take it off/move it/leave it alone? Hate to duplicate an' all. :)
<dholbach> there's a section "packages being worked on" or something
<dholbach> you could move it there
<dholbach> thanks for that
<dcraven> dholbach: I'll do it now. I appreciate the guidance.
<dholbach> dcraven: i enjoy it, thanks :)
<dholbach> dcraven: if you want me to look at your package beforehand (siretart is in holidays afaik), just tell me
<dcraven> Okay. Let me put it on my server for you. What files would you like, just the deb?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> just the source package
<dholbach> .diff.gz .orig.tar.gz .dsc
<dholbach> please :)
<dcraven> Oh. Okay.
<dholbach> you can't review a .deb properly, there's too much of stuff missing
<dcraven> dholbach: Okay. I'm lookin' around for those.. I see the dsc here.
<dholbach> and a .tar.gz?
<dcraven> dholbach: Yes.
<dholbach> put up those two... you did a "native package"
<neoliminal> Ok, I'm trying to figure out how to put up a request on the page you sent me to... UniverseCandidates.... but it doesn't seem to want to let me edit the page?!?
<neoliminal> nevermind.
<dholbach> dcraven: ok generally, you should take the .tar.gz you download from upstream, then move it to appname_version.orig.tar.gz, then unpack it, then add the debian/ dir and then build the source package
<dholbach> neoliminal: oh, did you create an account for the ubuntu pages?
<dholbach> neoliminal: you just need one for bugzilla/launchpad/wiki/...
<dholbach> if not that's fine, just /query me the link, the package name and a description and i'll add it
<dholbach> dcraven: so just rename the .tar.gz - don't do changes to it, that's why it's called "orig.tar.gz" ;)
<dcraven> dholbach: Okay. I never actually downloaded the tarball from upstream though. I *am* the upstream. I just branched svn when it was time for release.
<dholbach> ah i see
<dholbach> so you'd better do a clean release, without the debian/ crack in it, that's nicer, because you get a .diff.gz which gives you only the debian/ubuntu changes
<dcraven> dholbach: By clean release, you mean exclude the debian/ crack from the release tarball?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> that's nicer - imagine you release 1.2.3-1 and i do a quick fix 1.2.3-2 - the diff will look terrible :)
<neoliminal> ok, I added it to the request list!
<neoliminal> Yah me!
<dcraven> Okay.. I might understand. Instead of branching svn (which includes debian crack), and building the .deb in there, I should use an official release tarball (which I assume excludes the debian crack), and build the package outside of the svn branch.
<dholbach> neoliminal: super :)
<neoliminal> Have a nice day guys!
<dcraven> Bye neoliminal
<dholbach> dcraven: yeah that sounds good to me :)
<dholbach> neoliminal: thank you
<dcraven> dholbach: Okay then. I'll give that a shot.
<dcraven> dholbach: In the meantime, here is the goods --> http://arker.homelinux.org/~dcraven/newton-0.0.9-stuff/
<dcraven> I'll go get me a tarball.
<siretart> hi folks
<dholbach> hey siretart
<dholbach> hey thesaltydog
<siretart> huhu dholbach!
<siretart> home, sweet home.. :)
<dholbach> woohoo
<dholbach> dcraven: shall i make a list of what i spotted and mail you that list?
<\sh> SIRETART !!!
<siretart> huhu \sh! :)
<siretart> glad to see/read you all again :)
<\sh> dude, how was your holiday?
<siretart> was fine. quiet, in the middle of austria.
<siretart> nice 'huetten' - nice lake: and the best: all the week just sunshine! :)
<\sh> siretart: wow...:)
<dcraven> dholbach: Absolutely.
<dcraven> dholbach: Long list? :P
<dcraven> heh
<dholbach> dcraven: i'm not through yet :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, ciao daniel
<thesaltydog> siretart, hi
<siretart> huhu thesaltydog
<dholbach> dcraven: if you want to become a MOTU and maintain the universe with us (and i'd like to have you ther ;))) - you should have a look at wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto - it's a deadly useful tool for building in a separate environment and checking build depends, ... :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I remember you told me months ago the same thing..
<thesaltydog> :-)
<\sh> can somebody confirm the xpdf bug (malone #2148)
<dholbach> dcraven: just sent it
<dholbach> :)
<thesaltydog> dcraven, daniel is right. And I can add that pbuilder in an irreplaceable tool..
<dholbach> \sh: yes
<dcraven> dholbach: Thanks.
<dholbach> \sh: you have to debug xpdf.bin
<\sh> dholbach: hmmm...than it's upstream...cause 3.01 has it as well
<dcraven> thesaltydog: Okay.
<dholbach> \sh: X b0rkage?  0xb7d4be74 in XtChangeManagedSet () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6
<\sh> gnarf
<dcraven> I'll look into the PbuilderHowto prior to rebuilding a clean build for review.
<dholbach> dunno if it actually is X
<dholbach> dcraven: excellent
<thesaltydog> dholbach, deja-vu.
<dholbach> :)
<dcraven> dholbach: Thanks for the detail in the email.
<dholbach> :)
<dcraven> dholbach: Should I put comments/questions about those points in a reply to that email?
<dholbach> as you like it - if you have trouble, feel free to ping me about it
<dcraven> dholbach: Okay.
<siretart> huiui.. daniels was very busy during my absence.. upgrading from xorg -60 to -67 ;)
<\sh> that was a little step for me, but a big step for the breezy community ;)
<\sh> amarok_1.3.1-0ubuntu1 finally hit the archives...now everybody can blame me
<siretart> :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I have carefully read this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURecruitment
<dholbach> super
<thesaltydog> dholbach, ..signed the Code of COnduct, applied for membership, updated my wiki page..
<dcraven> thesaltydog: I did the same :)
<dholbach> wow... so you'll be in one of the next CC meetings?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, ...and I am also running pbuilder!
<dcraven> 27th
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I was asking you: now, what?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: if you want to be a MOTU, work with the team, attend the meeting and you'll be fine :)
<thesaltydog> when the meeting will be?
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar has all the dates
<thesaltydog> I'll be there..
<dholbach> thesaltydog: you might want to comment on: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=313668
<dholbach> thesaltydog: didn't you solve the hardlink issue in baobab?
<siretart> btw, what happened with network-manager? did someone upload j^'s package?
<thesaltydog> hardlink? Baobab has no open issues...
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ apt-cache show network-manager | grep Maintainer
<dholbach> Maintainer: Jan Gerber <j@bootlab.org>
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$
<dholbach> siretart: ^^^
<siretart> w000t :)
<dholbach> thesaltydog: that's not what i said :) you solved the hardlink problem, didn't you?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: some weeks ago
<thesaltydog> dholbach, yes, it is working very nice.
<dholbach> thesaltydog: then you could probably comment on the bug :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, let me have a look at that nautilus bug.
<dholbach> thesaltydog: i think they just want to have an idea of where "to go" next
<\sh> ok preparing 20050725er wine
<\sh> 20050830 has bugs
<dholbach> \sh: software always does
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> dholbach: but most of the time u won't see them happening ;)
<dholbach> :)
* \sh is the biggest software bug ,-)
<siretart> breezy+1 == dapper?
<siretart> how to translate that to german?
<\sh> dholbach: u are the apt-cache specialist...whats the easiest way to check which package is in main, regarding apt-cache rdepends xterm ,-)
<dholbach> adrett
<siretart> ah. adretter erpel.. ic :)
<\sh> siretart: breezy badger +1 == dapper drake == adretter erpel ;)
<siretart> hehe
<dholbach> apt-cache rdepends xterm | xargs apt-cache show | grep Directory | grep main             or something
<dholbach> you might go via grep-dctrl too
<dholbach> but i have no clue about it :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I have added a comment to that bug. Thank you.
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> thank you
<dcraven> haha.. pbuilder needs to apt-get half of ubuntu-desktop to build my package ;P
<dcraven> Neato though.
<dholbach> hehe :)
<dholbach> but it will keep the packages
<thesaltydog> dcraven, be sure to run an update of pbuilder each time you start using it.
<bddebian> So, what's the best way for me to determine where a file resides to pass to configure in debian/rules?
<dcraven> Oh crud. It's because I forgot to remove the gnome-common build dep like dholbach told me to :(
<dcraven> <-- dummy
<bddebian> Cmon' \sh / slomo, help me out here d00ds
<thesaltydog> bddebian, an executable or a script?
<bddebian> thesaltydog: I need to do something like: ./configure --with-lib=/usr/lib/tcl8.4 but I don't want to rely on it being tcl8.4
<dcraven> thesaltydog: Thanks for the tip.
<\sh> bddebian: I'm busy ... whats up
<bddebian> \sh: Never mind.  You don't love me anymore. :'-(
<dholbach> dcraven: take your time
<siretart> hey bddebian!!
<\sh> bddebian: hahaha...hey, I have special duties ;)
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<bddebian> \sh: :-)
<\sh> secret missions etc.
<\sh> bddebian: if u let me do my work, u will have at least later this day a new wine ;)
<bddebian> wine or whine? ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: choose ;)
<\sh> Mithrandir: ping can you please " apt-get install  libicu28-dev libjack0.80.0-dev libcapi20-dev docbook-utils docbook-xsl fontforge" on ravel breezy chroot? thx :)
<\sh> ah no risk no fun
<\sh> uploading
<\sh> for the releasenotes: if anybody is to blame that breezy is lame, then blame \sh ,-)
<\sh> siretart: press the search button when u loaded a pdf document
<siretart> blam
<siretart> \sh: ok. thanks.. you are right..
<\sh> siretart: i checked as well 3.01 from debian...same
<siretart> \sh: backtrace seems to me like the crasher in ddd
<\sh> apt-get install fluxbox
<\sh> checking xterm bugs
<siretart> \sh: this would mean bug in libXt :(
<\sh> siretart: oh no
<\sh> siretart: can u file it in bugzilla for daniels?
<\sh> I have to get rid of some bugs in xterm
<siretart> \sh: you mean this one: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14943
<siretart> I'm not sure if they are related. at the first glance, the backtraces look similar
<\sh> siretart: could be lesstif as well
<\sh> siretart: xpdf uses lesstif
<siretart> perhaps some abi change? lets rebuild lesstif
<\sh> lesstif2 didn't work with it
<\sh> siretart: can u take it? I'm really busy with xterm blaeh
<bddebian> bmonty: ping?
<siretart> \sh: I'm on it
<siretart> ddd still crashes..
<\sh> siretart: thx man
<\sh> brb
<bddebian> Didn't ace get uploaded?
<siretart> \sh: you wont believe it, but rebuilding lesstif cured both xpdf and ddd for me[tm] 
<\sh> siretart: upload ;)
<siretart> \sh: just a sek ;)
<\sh> siretart: I will upload xpdf-3.01 then
<bddebian> Anyone got a PPC handy?
<siretart> \sh: it seems that dependending apps do not need to be rebuilt. whats the diff to 3.00?
<siretart> bddebian: slomo, I think
<\sh> siretart: a lot
<siretart> a lot sounds like potential new bugs..
<siretart> \sh: lesstif1-1_0.93.94-11.4ubuntu3_source.changes ACCEPTED
<siretart> builds both lesstif1 and lesstif2
<dholbach> how do we handle audiocd-burning from nautilus-cd-burner? is it possible at all?
<Lathiat> dholbach: you use serpentine
<Lathiat> dholbach: sound & video -> create audio cd
<Lathiat> dholbach: or from rhythmbox
<dholbach> so nautilus-cd-burner is not usable at all for audio cd burning?
* dholbach burned the last audio cd 10 years ago or something
<dholbach> i'm looking at #13147 and #13168
<dholbach> that's why i ask
<Lathiat> no
* Lathiat looks
<dholbach> i meant #13168 and #14841 - sorry
<Lathiat> well, 13147 isnt to do with audio cds
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> oh i see
<dholbach> :)
<Lathiat> *copy* audio cds
<Lathiat> thats different
<Lathiat> that needs some attention
<Lathiat> but would require promoting cdrdao to main
<Lathiat> be nice if we could, tho
<dholbach> i wonder how we get all that crack on one CD :)
<dholbach> everything is in main these days ;)
<Lathiat> not all of main is on the cd
<dholbach> i know, but on the DVD :)
<Lathiat> a
<Lathiat> h
<Lathiat> well
<Lathiat> i suspect overtime
<Lathiat> main will overgrow a dvd
<dcraven> dholbach: At your leisure :) --> http://arker.homelinux.org/~dcraven/newton-0.0.9-stuff/
<dholbach> excellent
<dcraven> dholbach: I *think* I incorporated all of the changes you mentioned. And that is built with pbuilder.
<dholbach> rock'n'roll!
<dcraven> hehe
<dholbach> try to nam the orig.tar.gz like this:    newton_0.0.9.orig.tar.gz
<dcraven> Ahh..
<chillywilly> w00t
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> hey chillywilly
<chillywilly> ello
<dholbach> how's it going?
<dholbach> happy bugday everybody! :)
<dcraven> It's bugday?
<dholbach> dcraven: after that you'll only need the .orig.tar.gz, the .diff.gz and .dsc
<chillywilly> it's going
<Lathiat> and to you to!
<dholbach> yeah! :)
<dholbach> #ubuntu-bugs has the party crowd :)
* chillywilly is actually making openwrt packages
<chillywilly> :-o
<dcraven> dholbach: Okay. I'm doing that now. I'll let you know when it's done and give you that link again. I was wondering why I never gott the diff.gz
<dholbach> dcraven: i did a million times wrong, before i got it right - don't worry :)
<dcraven> Silly underscores :)
<siretart> dholbach: we have in breezy multiverse an quite old version of acroread (which is probably affected by and security bug). I'm inclined to replace it with panthera's package: http://ftp.debian-unofficial.org/debian/pool/non-free/a/acroread/ - do you have any objections?
<Lathiat> siretart: where did the current packages come from
<dholbach> siretart: shall we bother have a look at it?
<\sh> there it is...a new wine
<siretart> Lathiat: the current is from marillat
<\sh> Diziet had some legal issues with it
<\sh> with acroread
<Lathiat> ok, well if it works sounds good to me
<siretart> dholbach: well, it is non-free and multiverse anyway..
<Lathiat> \sh: oh?
<\sh> there is some paragraph newly included it seems...
<siretart> \sh: acroread is full of legal issues, thats the reason it is in multiverse.
<siretart> \sh: you mean new in 7.0.1?
<\sh> siretart: talk to diziet please :) he just mentioned it yesterday I think
<dholbach> siretart: it's ok for me
<dcraven> dholbach: Look better? --> http://arker.homelinux.org/~dcraven/newton-0.0.9-stuff/
<dholbach> will look in a sec
<siretart> \sh: I just debdiffed the package. I don't see changes to license
<siretart> \sh: panthera basically took marillats package and did some polishing on it
<dcraven> Bugday isn't for another like 7 hours for me :)
<dholbach> dcraven: are you on hoary still?
<cogumbreiro> lo all
<dholbach> hey cogumbreiro :)
<dcraven> dholbach: No. Breezy.
<dholbach> dcraven:ok
<cogumbreiro> dholbach: daniel?
<dholbach> cogumbreiro: yeah :)
<cogumbreiro> dholbach: i'm think i'm going to make the release now
<dholbach> cogumbreiro: super... well done :)
<dholbach> man, you're a hero - you worked on it non-stop it seems :)
<siretart> \sh: was diziet objection against the new version or against acroread itself?
<\sh> against acroread
<siretart> ok
<siretart> then it doesn't matter if I upload a new version
<dholbach> against it in general, i think :)
<siretart> ok. uploading :)
<cogumbreiro> dholbach: i did :D specially because i know you guys are on a tight schedule to freeze packages (which already hapened)
<dholbach> dcraven: sent it
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> good to have you around, cogumbreiro
<dholbach> i'm out for a dog walk, brb
<tseng> slomo: no i dont maintain beagle in debian now
<\sh> slomo: did anything changed regarding http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15043
<siretart> \sh: is the xpdf boog fixed for you, too?
<\sh> siretart: just compiling it..
<siretart> okay
<\sh> siretart: I'm just walking over my assigned bugzilla bugs ;)
<Lathiat> siretart: new acroread
<Lathiat> siretart: i assume i can close malone/2057 now
<siretart> Lathiat: yes!
<phlaegel> cogumbreiro: would it be possible to add the 21 minute length cds to the option list in serpentine?
<cogumbreiro> phlaegel: it could, but i didn't knew they exited :)
<phlaegel> heh
<phlaegel> they're those little 180MB discs
<cogumbreiro> yeah, sure i'll add that
<phlaegel> thanks :-)
<\sh> siretart: works
<\sh> with new lesstiff
<siretart> \sh: rock! another bug bites the dust ;)
<siretart> \sh: can you close the malone bug then?
<\sh> siretart: yeah...thx man :) uploading xpdf-3.01
<\sh> siretart: sure :)
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> THIS TEAM ROCKS :)
<dholbach> yeah :)
<siretart> hehe :)
<Burgundavia> is there a good guide someone for packaging python stuff
<Burgundavia> ?
<siretart> Burgundavia: depends. try looking at existing python packages
<Burgundavia> ok
<\sh> siretart: closed :)
<dholbach> Burgundavia: you could talk to dcraven :)
<Lathiat> hrm, anyone got any problems with syncing bochs from debian? minor version upgrade, fixes a bunch of bugs and some unmet build-dep stuff
<dholbach> fine with me
<dholbach> if it builds and works
<dholbach> :)
<Lathiat> yeh, testing that now
<dholbach> what about those  items on REVU?
<Lathiat> Y[]  makes no sense to me ;p
* dholbach supposes "U+2665 BLACK HEART SUIT" is better :)
* Burgundavia is, as usual, completely baffled by Debian packaging
<chillywilly> the black art of packaging
<Lathiat> Burgundavia: heh
<Lathiat> dholbach: yes thanks :)
<tseng> dholbach: <3
<dholbach> hey tseng :)
<tseng> hi
<dholbach> how are you?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-22
<Lathiat> ugh, vlc sucks
<Lathiat> it ftbfs on everything but i386
<Lathiat> who has a ppc and can try compile the latest debian version?
<Lathiat> also amd64 or ia64?
<dholbach> amd64 here
<dholbach> what shall i do? vlc source package build?
<persia> Lathiat: I can compile for amd64.
<dholbach> ok, persia, it's up to you :)
<Lathiat> dholbach: from debian
<chillywilly> I need beer
<Lathiat> bah
<Lathiat> debian tells me all i need to know
<Lathiat> 0.8.4-svn20050823-2: hppa i386 mips mipsel s390 sparc
<Lathiat> 0.8.2-1: ia64
<Lathiat> 0.8.1.svn20050314-1: alpha amd64 arm m68k powerpc
<persia> Lathiat: Do you want the debian package compiled in a debian environment, or under breezy?
<Lathiat> persia: dont worry about it :)
<Lathiat> i can tell its not going to work
<Lathiat> wonder if makign it buidl with gcc-3.4 would make it happier
<siretart> gn8
<dholbach> good night everybody, i'll join you again, tomorrow
<siretart> dholbach: gn8, sleep well
<Lathiat> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/895 anybody disagree with me thats a bad idea?
<\sh> Lathiat: why?
<\sh> fvwm, fluxbox etc. are as well in the sessions dir
<\sh> why not sawfish
<Lathiat> hm, suppose
<Lathiat> if someone submitted a gcc4 patch
<Lathiat> and its now been fixed
<Lathiat> so i mark it as "fixed" even tho im not using their patch
<Lathiat> Riddell: about?
<bddebian> Heya
<\sh> re bddebian
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: ping
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty_laptop> hi bddebian
<bmonty_laptop> how goes unmet deps?
<bddebian> Slowly, like everything else :-)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: I have a patch for ace...
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: do it :)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: I need someone to test it on amd64 and powerpc....can you do that?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: compiling?
<bmonty_laptop> yes
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: no problem...give me only a debdiff from last version to new version
<bmonty_laptop> test the build on the two architectures that failed
<\sh> brb...need to switch to kde
<bmonty_laptop> http://www.montynet.org/ubuntu/debdiff/ace_5.4.7-3ubuntu1.debdiff
<Lathiat> siretart: yo
<Lathiat> siretart: better to comment rather than put things in "status notes" (a bit confusing i know, but status notes isn't very obvious on the bug page)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: debdiff is at http://www.montynet.org/ubuntu/debdiff/ace_5.4.7-3ubuntu1.debdiff
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: thx
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: thanks for testing it
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: pong
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: I haven't had access to the ppc box, sorry
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: no worries
<bddebian> ajmitch!!
<ajmitch> hello
<Lathiat> did someone say something about some bug fixing ddd earlier?
<\sh> Lathiat: u have to update to new lesstif
<Lathiat> \sh: is that the "movign window around bug" ?
<\sh> Lathiat: no...that was the "segfaulting bug"
<Lathiat> ah ok
<Lathiat> \sh: err well
<Lathiat> \sh: "moving window around causes segfault" :)
<\sh> Lathiat: lesstiff updated?
<Lathiat> uh ddd needsa  rebuild anyway
<Lathiat> libXp
<ajmitch> yeah
* Lathiat grabs and tests
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: I need mithrandir first to install one depend
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: ok, no problem
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: so latest monday :(
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: hopefully that patch works :)
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: yeah...but I will bug infinity tomorrow he wanted to have a look over it...
<\sh> so actually he could test the patch as well
<bmonty_laptop> cool
<\sh> time to go to bed for me...my eyes are close to closed by themselves
<bmonty_laptop> gnight \sh
<\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/pbuilder/result/breezy$ du -m
<\sh> 77      .
<\sh> 20MB more then yesterday
<\sh> good
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch judges progress by the number of .upload files left around by dput
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> ah, my mailbox for universe-bugs is getting a good hammering today ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe...this is only the stuff i compiled today...the uploads I'm not counting...only the packages I build ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> ajmitch: this is normally more then I upload ;)
<Riddell> Lathiat: hi
<ajmitch> hey Riddell
<Riddell> morning ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya Riddell
<Riddell> morning bddebian
<Riddell> everyone is very friendly here today :0
<bddebian> Everyone is always friendly here in MOTU land ;-)
<ajmitch> Riddell: there's something in the water here
<ajmitch> I try & be a bit more critical than others ;)
<ajmitch> oh joy
<ajmitch> someone proposed an autopackage BOF for UBZ
* ajmitch checks for gpib brokenness
<bddebian> ajmitch: Did it come in broken?
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes
<ajmitch> pls don't sync brokennes kthx :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: It built fine for me??
<ajmitch> it's not a build problem??
<ajmitch> why did you sync it, anyway?
<bddebian> Ohh
<bddebian> It was missing so I wanted to try to fix the Malone bug :-)
<ajmitch> well it needs debian/rules fixed
<bddebian> :-(  Sorry
<ajmitch> more phpapi crack
<bddebian> Oh fuXXor.  I didn't look at that. :-(
<LaserJock> oh, man. GPIB drivers. That would be very cool
* bddebian smacks himself
<ajmitch> bddebian: fixing it now
<bddebian> Is gnomeappdir in Makefile where the .desktop stuff ends up?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: they aren't talking about test instrument control :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: ?
<ajmitch> bddebian: rebuild gpib, will upload :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: Me?
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, I am
<ajmitch> I meant rebuilding
<bddebian> Oh, sorry d00d.  Your always fixing my stupid stuff huh? :-(
<bmonty_laptop> so anyone know how to prevent ${shlibs:Depends} from pulling in a package?
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't let me make it a habit ;)
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: why do you want to do that?
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: it makes mplayer depends on xmms
<bddebian> ajmitch: :'-(
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: shlibs:Depends is because some binary is depending on xmms stuff then
<ajmitch> is it in build depends?
<ajmitch> bddebian: cheer up ;)
<bmonty_laptop> xmms-dev is
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: so disable the xmms stuff there?
<bddebian> So what about the .desktop stuff?
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: I could, but I'm not smart enough on mplayer to know what that will do to how the program runs
<ajmitch> bddebian: go forth & fix them
<bddebian> ajmitch: I meant my question about the path
<LaserJock> heah bmonty: have you had a chance to look at getting libghemical in universe?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I didn't see a question about the path
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: no, not yet
<bmonty_laptop> I need to get the debian source package for libghemical and check it
<bddebian> ajmitch:   Is gnomeappdir in Makefile where the .desktop stuff ends up?
<LaserJock> well, I was able to build libghemical from the tarball with MOPAC7 support by changeing an include in one src file and using gcc 3.4
<ajmitch> bddebian: no idea
<ajmitch> bddebian: /usr/share/applications is where most of them go, iirc
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: can you make a patch of it
<LaserJock> I think so
<bmonty_laptop> I think all of the .desktop files are in /usr/share/applications
<bddebian> ajmitch: I know, that's what the bug report says but I'm trying to figure out what determines where that path is.. ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> gnome menu figures out a new one is there almost instantly
<ajmitch> bddebian: why?
<bddebian> ajmitch: So I can fix #1177
<ajmitch> it  might be interesting & all, but I don't see why you need to do it
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: just copy it to /usr/share/applications in the rules file
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop's suggestion is the simplest way
<ajmitch> and use dh_installdesktop
<bddebian> fscking lame
* bddebian leaves it
<ajmitch> bah, don't give up on it :P
<ajmitch> it means one of us has to start on it
<LaserJock> bmonty: Should I make an ubuntu version of the Debian source ( i.e.  1.90-1ubuntu1) and send it to you?
<bddebian> Anyone know another package I can look at as an example?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: if you have a working package you should send it to one of the folks with upload rights (which isn't me) :)
<ajmitch> send to the master MOTU bddebian
<bmonty_laptop> if your libghemical package works, then I think you should ask elmo for a sync of ghemical
<bddebian> Well guess it's time to go
<bddebian> ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> by bddebian
<bmonty_laptop> er..bye
<ajmitch> he's not leaving yet..
<ajmitch> he's still got bugs to fix
<LaserJock> well, I have a question. The Debian package of libghemical has a patch that is doing a lot of things that I don't know are neccessary. Is it ok to get rid of the patch?
<ajmitch> could be.. ask the debian maintainer
<bmonty_laptop> I would say yes as long as the software still builds and run correctly....can you look in the debian BTS and see why they applied the patch?
<bmonty_laptop> or the changelog
* ajmitch looks for azeem
* Lathiat would generally prefer to do what the maintainer does, esp. considering the gehmical maintainer has been poking his head around in here
<Lathiat> he was in -devel earlier
* ajmitch pinged him in the hurd channel :)
<ajmitch> he's probably long asleep by now
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what is the patch?
<LaserJock> well, the changelog doesn't have anything
<ajmitch> is it the autotools patch?
<LaserJock> yes
<ajmitch> keep it, please
<ajmitch> just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it any less necessary :)
<LaserJock> well, I understand. I just want to know why?
<LaserJock> I think I must be missing something
<ajmitch> and I know azeem understands autotools far better than I
<ajmitch> it's an update to the package build system, to make it build properly
<ajmitch> especially on certain architectures
<LaserJock> hmm, ok then. No problem. I just wondered why it built ok for me without it
<ajmitch> it'll build fine on the common architectures
<ajmitch> but don't drop patches like that randomly
<LaserJock> yeah, that makes sense. I am just starting with this packageing thing :-P
<LaserJock> Is it the usual thing to wait for Debian to fix things so we don't have to do any more work than is necessary?
<ajmitch> depends on how responsive debian might be
<ajmitch> in this case, we know the maintainer, and he is willing to do stuff with ubuntu as well
<LaserJock> how willing are you guys to allow a package to depend on gcc 3.4?
<bddebian> LaserJock: In some cases we don't have a choice.  But also, depending gcc 3.4 isn't always enough because you can still have gcc4 installed and the "default"
<LaserJock> well, I ask because I had to set CC=gcc-3.4 CXX=g++3.4 to get libghemical to build with MOPAC7 support, which is my goal
<bddebian> Ah yes, now that is different :-)
<LaserJock> OK, here is my dillema. I think it is relatively easy for me to make a libghemical package. I email my changes to Michael Banck but haven't gotten a response. Should I wait for him, or make my own Breezy .deb and send it to you?
<LaserJock> He is obviously the maintainer but this package is the only packaging project I am working on at the moment so I can spend (waste) more time on it
<ajmitch> you can send them to me - I'm not sure how busy he is at the moment
<ajmitch> send source packages, rather than debs :)
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> Well, I'm trying trying not to be rude or step on any toes. I know that I am a newbie at this, but I just want to help if I can.
<ajmitch> azeem won't bite (much)
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> Ok, so I was able to build the Debian libghemical source package in pbuilder without problems. However, it doesn't have MOPAC7 support. To do that we would need to also get mopac7 from Debian. Is that OK?
<ajmitch> I guess so
<bmonty_laptop> goodnight everyone
<ajmitch> night bmonty_laptop
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty_laptop
<persia> bddebian: I've installed vpnc 0.3.3 for testing on #241.  What's the best way to exchange the deails for testing?  I have the IP, but not the other parameters.
<persia> Oops.  Sorry.  Wrong list.  Ignore me.
<LaserJock> does anybody know how to set CC and CXX in debian/rules with CDBS?
<LaserJock> nvm
<hub__> ajmitch: is that you the Mono pacakaging guru?
<ajmitch> not avguru, but i do some :)
<hub__> libgtk-cil or libgtk-2.0-cil ?
<ajmitch> depends what your app is written for
<ajmitch> different APIs
<hub__> ah ok
<hub__> so if they say libgtk-cil
<hub__> I must use that one
<robitaille> blam uses libgtk-cil  and beagle libgtk-2.0-cil  for example
<ajmitch> yeah
<hub__> ok
<hub__> gah
<hub__> it crashes
<hub__> crap
<hub__> is that uncmmon to use libgdiplus?
<hub__> I repackage due to lack of conformance to Debian Policy for CLI
<ajmitch> don't think it's that common
<ajmitch> ok
<hub__> and it require that lib
<hub__> obviously
<ajmitch> aha
<hub__> maybe because it runs on Windows too
<hub__> I know nothing about C# and Mono
<ajmitch> so you're using cli-common >= 0.2.0 now?
<hub__> yep
<ajmitch> I thought you were packaging a C# app?
<hub__> I am
<hub__> because I'm interested by the app not by the language
<hub__> I know a little about Mono in fact
<hub__> and what CLI is, etc.
<hub__> just I never learned C# and when I get crashes, I don't know wy
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> usually it's best if you have a reasonable understanding of the language of an app you're packaging :)
<hub__> yeah I know
<hub__> that gives a good reason to learn
<hub__> I'm and experienced C C++ programmer
<ajmitch> the app is hugin?
<hub__> (not counting other languages)
<hub__> no hugin is C++
<hub__> autopano-sift
<hub__> that should go in multiverse
<hub__> (because it runs on Multivac, sorry for the bad joke)
<ajmitch> right..
<ajmitch> the debian mono team is a joint debian/ubuntu effort, btw :)
<hub__> dcc?
* hub__ runs
<hub__> better go to bed
<ajmitch> no, dcc is neither debian nor ubuntu :P
<hub__> I'll have better idea tomorrow
<ajmitch> do you want to maintain your package in debian as well?
<hub__> why not
<ajmitch> possibly in the debian mono team's svn repository?
<hub__> I'm not a debian dev
<hub__> and the only debian I have now is at work
<ajmitch> doesn't stop you
<ajmitch> right
<hub__> or my real old debian box
<ajmitch> makes it a bit harder to maintain there
<hub__> I can arrange that
<hub__> like a chroot debian
<hub__> :-)
<ajmitch> like I have
<hub__> I do that already to build our crap for debian-woody
<hub__> good night
<hub__> off to bed
<ajmitch> night
<hub__> c-ya later
* Mithrandir waves
<ajmitch> hi Mithrandir
<pef> hello
<ajmitch> pef: I took malone #995, the user wanted it fixed :)
<dholbach> good morning
<jtan325> is there a place that keeps track of package stats, i.e. number of downloads?
<jtan325> similiar to debian's popularity contest
<dholbach> jtan325: popcon.ubuntu.com?
<jtan325> oh cool
<dholbach> :)
<jtan325> os is there a way to see it for a specific package though?
<jtan325> instead of just top 10
<dholbach> the lists a VERY long
<jtan325> hehe
<ivoks> ok
<dholbach> where did you find that top 10 thing?
<jtan325> my first package has made it into breezy, so i just wanted to check out how it was doing
<ivoks> i'm trying to fix java packages
<ivoks> but i can't put assigned on bug
<ivoks> in what group i should be to be able to mark packages fixed or edit them?
<jtan325> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/multiverse/utils/by_inst
<jtan325> (example of top 10)
<dholbach> jtan325: yes, multiverse is not that big, maybe? only those were installed on people's systems?
<dholbach> dunno
<dholbach> it's top 16 for me
<jtan325> hehe
<jtan325> if you're running breezy, check out "conky"
<ivoks> dholbach: ping :)
<dholbach> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> dholbach: never mind :)
<dholbach> ok
* ajmitch heard conky had issues in breezy
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> I'll take a look on malone for it
<siretart> Lathiat: allright, didn't know there was a difference
<siretart> hi ajmitch! :)
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<ivoks> morning (day)
<jtan325> ajmitch, what?
<siretart> huhu ivoks, hi *
<jtan325> i'm gonna try it right now
<ivoks> yay! /me is fixing java :)
<dholbach> mornign siretart
<ajmitch> jtan325: can't find it on malone, I could be mistaken
<jtan325> sorry, what is malone?
<jtan325> but that's good to hear :-)
<ivoks> :/
<jtan325> i just did a fresh install, seems fine
<jtan325> and i just did an install of breezy preview like a few hours ago
<ajmitch> launchpad.net/malone
<ivoks> sbackup is nice, isn't it?
<siretart> sbackup?
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> one question..
<ivoks> if package has Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<ivoks> where should I put lib that he's depending on?
<crimsun> append it
<ivoks> ok
<siretart> ivoks: do you know why the lib does not appear in ${shlibs:Depends}?
<ivoks> it's not budiled against it
<ivoks> or?
<ivoks> siretart: this is j2re, we don't build it, just install it, but it doesn't work without libxp6
<ivoks> siretart: so, i just wanted to add that lib to dependency
<siretart> ivoks: aaah. ok. then that should be ok
<crimsun> that would be fine. Note that if the jre/jdk is ibm (instead of sun or blackdown), libgtk1.2 is also a Depends
<crimsun> (see my note at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaPackageBuildNewVersions(
<crimsun> ) rather
<ivoks> crimsun: this is sun java in multiverse
<crimsun> ivoks: k
<ivoks> hm... build fails...
<ivoks> acctually, it stops
<ivoks> damn scripts
<ivoks> doko: ping
<doko> ivoks: pong
<dholbach> morning doko
<ivoks> doko: j2se1.4 has bug
<ivoks> doko: package, not java
<ivoks> doko: it should depend on libxp6
<ivoks> doko: i uploaded -ubuntu1 witch depends on libxp6
<ivoks> doko: just wanted you to know, sinc you are maintainer...
<doko> ivoks: that's bad, we didn't want to modify the package
<doko> dholbach: finally awake? ;-)
<dholbach> doko: hahaha, had only 4h of sleep :)
<\sh> moins
<siretart> doko: well, that change is really minimal, and upstream couldn't think that ubuntu would drop/seperate libxp
<siretart> huhu \sh!
<ajmitch> hi doko
<ivoks> doko: why you didn't want to modify it?
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<\sh> outch...u guys spammed my mailbox ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: it'll recover ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: we're only just starting to get into bug day ;)
<ivoks> \sh: universe-bugs? :)
<\sh> ivoks: sure
<ivoks> ajmitch: did you vote? :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: of course
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> voting turnout is generally very high in NZ
<ivoks> that's nice
<siretart> wah, now I see what \sh meant with 'spamming' :)
<\sh> siretart: hehe
<ajmitch> siretart: good, isn't it? :)
<ajmitch> one of our best organised cleanups yet :)
<ivoks> if not the best
<ivoks> bye all
<\sh> ajmitch: were more people helping, or just persia? ,-)
<ivoks> time to study
<siretart> hehe
<ajmitch> \sh: persia has done a lot
<\sh> ajmitch: I know..but were more people (!persia && !MOTU) helping since I went to bed?
<persia> \sh robotgeek was very helpful testing against powerpc
<\sh> cool
<\sh> this means the announcement was read and we had/have/will have a good bug day all over the TZs .... great job ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> don't thank me :)
<\sh> kewl..I changed my LP name to shermann, now shermann@ubuntu.com is working ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> remind me to unsubscribe from universe-bugs next bugday or something ;-)
<\sh> no way ,)
<dholbach> hehe :)
* Nafallo ponders to take down the server now that he has a little time
<ajmitch> hey Nafallo
* ajmitch is happy how this bug day is going :)
<Nafallo> morning ajmitch :-)
<deeyas> can anyone tell me how much similarity exists between ubuntu and debian?
<StrikeForce> Is anyone here?
<\sh> yepp...but working
<StrikeForce> fair enough
<siretart> yay, buildscript seems to work..
<StrikeForce> erm I've installed a python program and its been byte compiled however should I erase all the other instances of it?
<StrikeForce> e.g. there are 3 files being .py .pyc and .pyo
<StrikeForce> 3 instances of each file I should say :(
<siretart> who is anthony marcatante?
<\sh> time to have a shower....
<tseng> dudes, do i need to do anything special to make me@ubuntu.com work?
<tseng> it doesnt.
<siretart> tseng: are you in the ubuntu members lp group?
<tseng> i am
<tseng> well
<tseng> im in developers and motu
<tseng> it says i never signed CoC
<siretart> you need to be in Ubuntu members group
<tseng> yeah..
<tseng> nice
<tseng> #
<tseng> # Ubuntu Core Development Team (Approved)
<tseng> you think that would count for something.
<tseng> :P
<siretart> ;)
<slomo_> siretart: toni in irc... but he isn't here very often ;)
<ajmitch> tseng: so sign & upload a CoC
<tseng> ajmitch:  i just did.
<tseng> ajmitch: but, ive done this before
<ajmitch> and it failed?
<siretart> huhu slomo_
<tseng> i mailed it to mako
<tseng> i guess it failed in the sense that it didnt do any good
<tseng> in the LP juggernaut sense anyway
<ajmitch> tseng: so brandon
<tseng> ajmitch: yes?
<ajmitch> @ubuntu.com shoujld work
<StrikeForce> can you make dh_install make all files it transfers +x ? like install
<tseng> after mdz adds me to members
<ajmitch> you're not in there yet?
<tseng> no.
<siretart> tseng: you need to upload your signed CoC to launchpad
<tseng> I DID ROFLZ
<siretart> tseng: then you become Ubuntite
<siretart> perhaps your sig was disabled (that was my problem)
<tseng> siretart: the problem is that ive done all this maybe 6 months ago
<tseng> we didnt use launchpad then
<tseng> which is fine, ill do it again in the name of progress
<tseng> except there is none yet
<tseng> launchpad so far just gets in my way
<siretart> well, I see your point. Had the same problems..
* ajmitch hasn't got a bounce from sending to brandon@ubuntu.com yet
<tseng> i get them instantly using gmail
<ajmitch> mm, nz election is rather evenly split
<sivang> can you guys help me out? the package is gnome-panel, and I'm trying to cdbs-edit-patch 12_autotools,
<sivang> Applying already existing patch to edit directory at level 0 1 2 failure
<sivang> does happen with any of the patches before that one
<sivang> (for instance, 09_lpi_src)
<tseng> dpatch has a --before-patch or something
<\sh> sivang: what do u want to do with autotools patch?
<sivang> \sh: I just need to update it
<sivang> \sh: (which worked before, in the same exact wayt)
<tseng>    Create a new patch to be applied after an existing patch.
<tseng>        $ dpatch-edit-patch patch 95_newupstreamfix 90_ctrlkeyfix
<sivang> tseng: ut's using dpatch??
<tseng> no
<tseng> but cdbs-edit-patch is based on dpatch
<tseng> i was suggesting you look for a similar feature
<sivang> so, I need to invoke it the same as dpatch ?
<sivang> (provide the last patch I want applied)
<tseng> "maybe"/
<sivang> I see
<tseng> it would be nice if it had a manpage
<sivang> Weird, this has never happened to me before - plus I am trying to keep all the configure result changes inside the same 12_autotools.patch , seb128 doesn't like several patches for confiugre cahnges..
<sivang> sure would
<sivang> maybe we can make one?
<\sh> sivang: why not removing 12_autotools and make a newone ;)
<sivang> \sh: hrm, could work, but I don't want to loose other's changes int here..
<sivang> s/here/there/
<\sh> sivang: this is the autogenerated stuff..
<\sh> sivang: all serious changes are normally Makefile.am and configure.in/configure.ac
<sivang> \sh: ok, I'll give it a try
<\sh> so u have to dpatch-edit-patch 12_newautotools 11_panel_addto_dialog
<\sh> which means last patch is 11
<sivang> but it doesn't use dpatch...
<sivang> simple-patchsys
<\sh> a
<\sh> ah
<\sh> more easy
<\sh> do something like this
<\sh> untar orig.tar.gz -> mv orig.dir orig.dir.patch
<\sh> untar orig.tar.gz
<\sh> apply patches up to 11 to orig.dir and orig.dir.patch
<\sh> patch orig.dir.patch
<\sh> with your stuff, regenerate autocrap
<\sh> diff -ur orig.dir orig.dir.patch
<\sh> this cdbs-edit-patch thing never worked correctly for me ;)
<sivang> I see, well , it worked so good for me that I got too used to working with it =)
<nickm_> #ubuntu-motu
<persia> I've stopped chasing Malone, and am working on .desktop files.  Not hearing anything in #ubuntu-bugs, I thought I'd ask here if anyone has any objections to using the output of the menu-xdg menu-method to autogenerate these?  Also, does anyone have any suggestions as to the best way to attach these to the apps that need them?
<cogumbreiro> lo all
<ajmitch> still people around to handle #ubuntu-bugs? new people showing up, and I'm going off to sleep :)
<persia> ajmitch: sleep well.
<nickm_> ajmitch, what needs 'handleing' ?
<ajmitch> persia: if you want to introduce the new people to what to do? :)
* ajmitch needs to sleep asap
<nickm_> me = new people :)
<persia> ajmitch: Sure.  I'm not far behind you, but I can send out another freindly note.
<persia> nickm_: Today, you could help best on #ubuntu-bugs
<nickm_> im there
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> bddebian: Good morning!  About #1519; it still depends on xmms :(  Looks like something with $(shlibs)
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> So if bmp is there it still wants xmms?
<persia> bddebian: Something like that.  No worries: no rush.  Just wanted to let you know before I went to sleep.
<bddebian> Hmm, OK, thx
<sivang> tseng: meh, wiping 12_autotools and creating it from scratch won't work
<sivang> tseng: it's screws some of the panel-addto foo
<\sh> laying down for an hour
<ogra> is anyone in here using a xinerama setup ?
<dcraven> Hey dholbach
<bddebian> Later gang
<dholbach> hey dcraven
<zyga> ogra: yes, me
<zyga> okay could someone remind me who can sign me up as REVU uploader?
<dholbach> zyga: siretart, wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU has the details
<zyga> dholbach: he's gone ATM
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> in our migrationtools every perl script has require 'migrate_common.ph';
<ivoks> but that file isn't in @INC
<ivoks> so, should we change every script and requier absoluth path or copy that file somewhere else? :)
<ivoks> ok... :)
<\sh> re
<\sh> hmmm...didn't someone say he can watch the go-open-movies with totem and gstreamer?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i can
<dholbach> gstreamer-plugins-multiverse
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> i can't installed all plugins
<tseng> slomo_++
<dholbach> \sh: what exactly goes wrong?
<\sh> dholbach: ** Message: don't know how to handle video/mpeg, mpegversion=(int)4, systemstream=(boolean)false, codec_data=(buffer)000001b001000001b58913000001000000012000c4f9616d8800cd0f042c1443000001b246466d706567302e342e392d707265316234373336, width=(int)480, height=(int)352, framerate=(double)25
<dholbach> you said you couldn't install all plugins?
<\sh> argl
<\sh> i installed all plugins
<\sh> with xine i can see the pictures but no sound ;)
<dholbach> mplayer?
<\sh> mplayer works...watching now ;)
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> see you in 6 hours or something
<dholbach> ;)
<\sh> the host is gay right ? ,-)
<tseng> wow
<dholbach> the host is SO funny :)
<\sh> yes :)
<\sh> really good show..we need this show in germany as well
<\sh> wow
<siretart> \sh: what show are you watching again?
<\sh> go-open
<\sh> www.go-opensource.org
<siretart> ah
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: ping
<ivoks> ok, anyone did printing recently on ubuntu?
<\sh> serpentine crash
<\sh> when accessing the menue
<\sh> menu even
<ivoks> evince's print dialog doesn't look good :/
<ivoks> one can't choose pages for printing... it's all or nothing
<ivoks> serpentine works ok here
<\sh> new version from today? dholbachs upload from today?
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> re :)
<\sh> *yawn* I think I will go early to bed today....watching the rest of go-open ;)
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/distribute.html
<\sh> what I said yesterday
<dholbach> i'm off - see you guys
<ivoks> by
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-23
<_tonio> hi all
<_tonio> little question about packaging
<_tonio> how to resolv the deps problem if one of the required packages is in multiverse (mplayer in my case)
<crimsun> what pool is your package in?
<crimsun> if your package has b-d on a package in multiverse, your package needs to be [demoted to]  in multiverse
<_tonio> universe
<_tonio> damn ;)
<_tonio> Okay so I cannot post it to REVU can I ?
<_tonio> I'm trying to package soundkonverter in fact, which depends on many tools including mplayer
<crimsun> sure you can, but you either need to disable the compile option that requires the b-d on the multiverse package, or you need to ask for your package to be demoted to multiverse
<_tonio> okay, and how to resolv the multiverse problem with pbuilder ?
<crimsun> battery's about to die, back in a bit
<_tonio> can it make use of multiverse ?
<_tonio> okay thanks for your help ;)
<crimsun> sure, just make sure multiverse is in your pbuilder's sources.list
<crimsun> remember that will only work for a local build
<hub__> can't programmer program cleanly?
<crimsun> it will fail horribly on our buildds
<_tonio> okay crimsun thanks ;)
<_tonio> That doesn't resolv my problem because I will not be able to upload it, or built will fail..... I will look for  solution...
<nathanel> the lesstif package seems to be broken and needs a recompile against current libraries; I already added a comment to #14943, but I'm not sure if I should open a new bug on lesstif directly?
<bmonty> hi everyone
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> \sh_away: pong
<_tonio> little question, what to add to "rules" to let pbuilder use qmake instead of make ?
<_tonio> I have a Makefile generated with qmake and no makefile.in
<_tonio> pbuilder just fails......
<bmonty> _tonio: is qmake installed in your pbuilder (i.e. is it a build dep?)
<_tonio> in my pbuilder ? I don't understand..... with my packages you mean ?
<_tonio> did I put qmake in the dependancies ? yes
<bmonty> what is the error that you get when it fails?
<_tonio> no makefile found
<_tonio> because I don't have any makefile.in file in the tarball, but I have a "makefile"
<_tonio> sounds a bit strange but that's it
<bmonty> do you have to use -f if the makefile isn't named "Makefile"?
<_tonio> not sure....... I surely have to make a few tests.....
<_tonio> maybe just use qmake without options in the rules file.... I'll make some tests
<sistpoty> ping j^
<bddebian> Doesn't qmake use .pro files?
<_tonio> bddebian: I don't know exactly qmake, I just used it once...
<_tonio> here is the first line of the "Makefile" I have
<_tonio> # Makefile for building: klear
<_tonio> # Generated by qmake (1.07a) (Qt 3.3.4) on: Sat Sep 10 12:31:47 2005
<_tonio> # Project:  klear.pro
<_tonio> it seems that I have tu use a .pro file and yes I have it ;) but what to add in "debian/rules" for this ?
<bmonty> _tonio: add the qmake commands to build the makefile
<bmonty> and then run it
<bddebian> You should just be able to swap make/makefile.in with qmake/*.pro respectively I think
<_tonio> I'm trying this ;)
<_tonio> bddebian: the problem is that I'm using cdbs, and there is certainly a specific flag to make use of qmake, but I haven't been able to find...
<bddebian> Sorry, I know little to nothing of cdbs :-(
<_tonio> I'm not a specialist also, but is simplifies a LOT ;) therefore I can have problems for example in this case ;)
<_tonio> kubuntu-devel
<apokryphos> Malone should be used for Universe bugs, no?
<apokryphos> searching by sourcepackagename doesn't find KPackage (while it is in Universe, both Breezy+Hoary)
<persia> apokryphos: Malong should be used for universe bugs.  It's bug day, so bug activity is currently coordinated on #ubuntu-bugs
<apokryphos> persia: I take it universe bugs means packages in universe ;-), but nevermind, I'll note there, thanks :)
<siretart> morning
<StrikeForce> morning :)
<siretart> where does postfix place logfiles by default?
<Lathiat>  /var/log/mail.{log,info,err} iirc
<siretart> ok, thanks
* siretart loves exim..
* Lathiat hates !postfix, loves postfix. :)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> perhaps I should read more documentation of postfix
<\sh> moins
* \sh is a bit p*ssed this morning
<robitaille> at someone?  at something?
<\sh> read the planet...4:34 UTC I got my wakeup call from my provider, that my webserver was down...
<\sh> shitty shitty scriptkiddie bang bang
<crimsun> ick, that blows
<\sh> one weblog was not fixed..and allmighty XMPRPC PHP bog hit me
<\sh> I informed the admin of this vhost and shut this service down...
<\sh> I checked my system and found a nice botnet crap in /tmp/
<\sh> to be precisley: /tmp/.../.httpd/ ,-)
<Treenaks> \sh: good luck with it
<\sh> Treenaks: all over...I discovered the scriptkiddies
<\sh> .ru
<robitaille> \sh:   SERVER 132.207.4.32  points to step.polymtl.ca    That's a big enginerring school in Montreal.  You could even visit them next month
<\sh> well...the first ip is lycos europe..my ex-teamleader is contact person ;)
<\sh> I mean, they should invest their time in real hacking not in trying out old bugs
<siretart> hi \sh
<\sh> or they should come around and help developing a better ubuntu
<\sh> hey siretart
<\sh> the only thing what disturbs me and got me angry is the time, my provider was sending the sms..it was in the middle of my night ,)
<siretart> understandable
<\sh> oh man..u guys hexed yesterday evening a lot ;) reading -changes ;)
<torkel> crimsun: thanks for taking care of openafs
<\sh> http://www.minisip.org/
<torkel> crimsun: If you got some time I would apreciate if you could upload/sync openafs-doc too. It's a separate source package nowdays
<pef> hello
<siretart> hi pef!
<pef> I have now free time to help you :) I will certainly help with desktop files
<siretart> great! :)
<pef> the quality of debian packages is a myth or a reallity ?
<crimsun> quite far from myth; definitely a reality
<\sh> ghc6 is ok can we deal with the unmet deps?
<pef> crimsun: so I have no luck with them :) I find some packages with diff about 1M, library as Recommends, etc
<siretart> \sh: ghc6 and darcs are looking fine, at least on i386] 
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ghc6/6.4-4.1ubuntu2/ <- this?
<siretart> yeah, looks fine to me
<\sh> ok..so we can deal with them ;)
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> siretart: are u haskell specialist? please have a look, when u have time, on hmake ;)
<\sh> brb
<siretart> \sh: sistpoty is ;)
<\sh> siretart: ok ;)
<\sh> hmmm...should I go out to have breakfast?
<crimsun> certainly
<\sh> ok..going out for breakfast or actually it's lunch time ;)
<siretart> yay finally found that londonlaw/wxpython b00g
<ajmitch> great
* ajmitch is tempted to setup his laptop again with cryptroot
<ivoks> hi
<ajmitch> hey ivoks
<ivoks> ajmitch: yeah, me too :)
<ajmitch> since it has my gpg & ssh keys on it
<ivoks> i will do a reinstall as soon as breezy is out
<ivoks> or maybe even with snapshot
<ajmitch> I've already customised my install a bit - I think I could probably convert the running system to cryptroot
<ajmitch> only 11GB of LVM space is currently allocated on it
<ivoks> ajmitch: and you have crypted partitions?
<ajmitch> not yet
<ivoks> i tried to setup that once, and failed
<ajmitch> still got 16GB unallocated in the VG
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> hm... does gvm understands crypted usb keys?
<ivoks> s/keys/sticks
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> pitti announced basic support for that awhile ago
<ivoks> hm... tempted :)
<ajmitch> if I had a usb key I'd certainly use it crypted
<ivoks> only problem is that's unusable elsewhere
<ajmitch> wouldn't worry me
<ajmitch> you can partition your key
<ivoks> yes, that's what i'm thinking right now...
<ivoks> we should put iFolder in breezy+1
<ajmitch> aha, he has a mini-howto posted on jul 16 to ubuntu-devel
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> we've already talked about ifolder
<ajmitch> there's an issue with a proprietary lib, iirc
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> that's bad
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I can't recall what the conclusion was
<ajmitch> but we have looked at it :)
<ivoks> ifolder.com - Open Source iFolder Project
<ivoks> but the lib... :///
<ajmitch> libflaim, iirc
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> but:
<ivoks>  iFolder 3.2 Goals
<ajmitch> we'll see what we can do for dapper (and debian)
<ivoks> Replace the Flaim database with an open source solution
<ivoks> http://www.ifolder.com/index.php/Project_Roadmap
<ajmitch> 3.1 is current
<ivoks> yeah...
<ivoks> so, that could be soon
<ajmitch> probably just after breezy release :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> they say that even libfalim could go open source
<ajmitch> however that's for simias
<ajmitch> I think the ifolder client is fully open source
<ivoks> client is
<ajmitch> but I don't know how useful it is without the server
<ivoks> it's not
<ajmitch> ifolder+avahi will be really good
<\sh> back...have my breakfast at home...to sunny outside
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<ivoks> ajmitch: yes
<Lathiat> what is flaim
<\sh> hey ajmitch :)
<ivoks> Lathiat: bad library :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: heh, you highlight on avahi in channels now? ;)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: altho i was reading the conversation before
<ivoks> would ifolder be able to work over avahi?
<ajmitch> if it were hacked up to do so, yes
<ajmitch> I'd say someone would be working on a patch asap
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> but who? :)
* ivoks looks :)
<Lathiat> ifolder 3.1 goals
<Lathiat> - peer-to-peer domain enabled in simias with simias-bonnjour package
<ajmitch> Lathiat: you talked to calvin about it, right?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: nope, i havent really touched ifolder ever
<Lathiat> i tried it once and couldnt get it to work
<ajmitch> ah, I thought you had..
<Lathiat> that was a long time ago tho
<ajmitch> I recall now, Mez was trying to package it, had been talking to him
<ajmitch> beyond 3.2 goals.. tomboy & f-spot.. ;)
<ivoks> f-spot looks nice
<ajmitch> it is
<ivoks> f-Spot
<ivoks> :/
<ajmitch> ?
<ivoks> eh
<ivoks> pitti rulz
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> what did you setup?
<ivoks> usb stick
<ivoks> when you plug it in, asks for pass
<\sh> ??
<\sh> what is it?
<ivoks> \sh: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-July/008982.html
<ivoks> we should write gui for this
<\sh> why he didn't blog it ,-)
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> \sh: because he posted it to the devel list? :)
<\sh> he should blog those things, so i can read it with my akregator ,-)
<\sh> You know, blogs are kewl ,-) and they're quite strange
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> hello rob^
<\sh> this morning I read an article on Kai Ravens Blog (he's blogging about security issues in RL + Internet stuff), there was a link to a blog of a woman named "Jane"...she's writing as well about security issues in RL+Internet...and on her blog I found a link to a blog, which belongs to an old friend of mine, and I didn't know that she's still alive ;)
<ajmitch> small world :)
<ajmitch> hi persia
<\sh> ajmitch: yes
<persia> hi ajmitch.  I tried to take a break to play games, but found a bug (and the fix).  Malone #2392.
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch fetches
<persia> ajmitch: Thank you.
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> coreutils has 318 open bugs in debian :)
<\sh> wow
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> bang....just trying to clean up my bugzilla bug list
<\sh> libhid *gnarf*
<slomo> hi everybody :)
<\sh> hey slomo
<\sh> slomo: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/distribute.html <- u uploaded latest acrobat, right??
<slomo> no
<slomo> i hate acrobat reader :P
<\sh> who was it then
<slomo> why do you think i uploaded it? is there nothing written in the changelog?
<\sh> siretart: ah ;)
<ajmitch> noone should have uploaded it
<\sh> Betreff: 	Accepted acroread 7.0.1-0.0.ubuntu1 (source)
<\sh> Datum: 	Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:25:09 +0100 (BST)  (23:25 CEST)
<\sh> or is it only a meta package?
* ajmitch wonders how it could be there
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> 39477207 non-free/text optional acroread_7.0.1.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> something that large is not a meta package
<\sh> yeah see it right now :(
<ajmitch> synced from debian non-free
<slomo> looks like marillat... not debian non-free
<siretart> hi
<\sh> siretart: Betreff: 	Accepted acroread 7.0.1-0.0.ubuntu1 (source)
<\sh> Datum: 	Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:25:09 +0100 (BST)  (23:25 CEST)
<siretart> I took acroread from pantera
<\sh> siretart: did u see this? http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/distribute.html
<siretart> whats the problem with it?
<\sh> siretart: do we have a permission to redistribute? ,-)
<ajmitch> is the UVF policy for universe written down so people can see it?
<siretart> \sh: hm. :(
<\sh> ajmitch: we handle UVF  not as main handles it ... we will do this for dapper
<siretart> \sh: in the package, there wasn't any significant change in licence. but I admit, that I didn't investigate the adobe website further
<ajmitch> \sh: no, there are UVF policies that we agreed on for universe
<ajmitch> \sh: this lack of knowledge about it is a problem
<Yagisan> UVF ??
<ajmitch> upstream version freeze
<Yagisan> thanks
<siretart> the previous version had security issues, only fixable with the new upstream version
<\sh> if it fixes a bug we should use new version
<ajmitch> \sh: sure, but the policies were that UVF breakages had to be approved by certain people
<siretart> thats why I uploaded the new version. if we may not redistribute acroread, we can remove that anyway
<siretart> ajmitch is right, my bad
<siretart> well, I asked dholbach and \sh, they didn't object
<\sh> siretart: yeah...but now I read the new terms
* ajmitch found the TB meeting where we agreed, fwiw
<siretart> ajmitch: do you have a link to the minutes?
<bddebian> Was I there?  SInce I'm the one in trouble? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's not just you
<ajmitch> siretart: I might do - I found it grepping through my irc logs on my box :)
<slomo> bddebian: it's almost us all ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: never mind
<ajmitch> july 13
<siretart> we should discuss this the next motu meeting
<ajmitch> I guess we just have to scrap the UVF idea now
<ajmitch> since noone sticks to it :)
<ajmitch> next MOTU meeting is soon, isn't it?
<ajmitch> ah yes, in a couple of days
<\sh> ajmitch: ;)
<siretart> on thursday
<siretart> \sh: what do you suggest regarding acroread?
<ajmitch> if the license does state we can't redistribute it, then we *have* to remove it from the archive ASAP
<ajmitch> so you'd have to contact elmo I think
<ogra> guys, acroreads license was discussed to an extend with sabdfl please leave it alone except for fixing
<ajmitch> ogra: is it?
<ogra> yup...
<ajmitch> ogra: so what's the status?
<\sh> hmmm
<ogra> is it working ?
<siretart> I uploaded a new version yesterday, fixing some security issues (malone bugnr mentioned in changelog)
<ogra> thats fine, is it working now ?
<\sh> yes
<siretart> for me [tm] . yes ;)
<ogra> great, so just leave it alone...
<ogra> ;)
<\sh> hmmm...how can I determine the version of autocrap stuff, e.g. determine which version I should use to rebuild this crap?
<ogra> elmo and sabdfl are aware of the license...
<ogra> (except it changed with the recent upload)
<ajmitch> ogra: you'll be at the meeting to clarify whatever UVF stuff we might have (and ignore?) :)
<slomo> \sh: look at the configure.ac... there is a minimum version specified when it's done correct
<ogra> simple rolese of thumb: if it fixes something, if a big user demad is there or if the version we have blocks something else, break UVF
<slomo> \sh: otherwise... automake 1.8 / autoconf 2.5? worked for me with everything ;)
<ogra> we didnt make real rules this time and i think all delegates are able to decide themselves if or if not an UVF brekage make sense
<ajmitch> ogra: more the issue of motus not asking for uvf exceptions
<ogra> yes, thats odd...
<ajmitch> but just uploading or requesting syncs
<Mez> hmm
<\sh> slomo: this is autoconf..but what about aclocal/automake?
<ogra> so lets make a list and talk to them why they dont respect the rules we worked out together
<ajmitch> i don't think this was noted well enough for the new motus to know :)
<Mez> can someone load up http://62.255.32.16/ and see if they can connect ?
<\sh> or i have to compile it with python2.3
<ajmitch> ogra: we'll talk about it at the motu meeting on thursday, I guess
<ogra> ajmitch, i guess we'll have to fully comply to all freezes in dapper anyway, to make sure universe is fit enough for 5 years of support
* ajmitch has to sleep now :)
<ajmitch> certainly
<Mez> can anyone?
<ajmitch> I don't know how dapper's 5 year plan will fit with universe though
<ajmitch> Mez: 403
<ogra> me neither, but its there :)(
<ogra> s/(//
<Mez> 403?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: a nice rule of thumb is "when in doubt, ask", since it's so much better to ask about a sync too much than a sync too little.
<ajmitch> ogra: true.. so we'll have a lot of work to do
<\sh> ./configure: line 1952: syntax error near unexpected token `pedantic,'
<\sh> ./configure: line 1952: `MD_ARG_ENABLE_CUSTOM(pedantic, pedantic compiler checks, no)'
<Mez> ajmitch: but it connects?
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: yeah, it's just some syncs requested have been a bit broken :)
<ajmitch> Mez: yes
<ogra> we'll just have to start earlier the next time, which was blocked this time due to the several transitions
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: so make them atone by buying beer at UBZ (if they'll be there)
<ajmitch> ogra: I think dapper ought to be smoother for transitions
<ogra> yup
<\sh> wx2.6 ;)
<\sh> crap crap
<ajmitch> sid ought to be smoother by then as well
<ogra> ajmitch, which syncs where that ?
<Mez> hmm
<ogra> do we have a list... `
<Mez> weird
<ogra> ?
<ajmitch> ogra: not a list, there have just been a couple of packages I've followed up on with a new upload after the sync
<ogra> we should identify the uploaders and talk to them, probably the UVF stuff wasnt clear enough
<ajmitch> yep
<ogra> thats why i asked for a list...
<ajmitch> I've done so :)
<ogra> oki ;)
<\sh> argl
<\sh> I'm a autocrap n00b
<ogra> ajmitch, btw, awesome work with the bugday, i never manager to get this many people in #ubuntu-bugs ... and kudos to persia (s)/he owns the channel
<\sh> aclocal-1.7 -I ./m4 ,->
<ajmitch> ogra: I didn't have to do much
<ajmitch> ogra: persia & others did most of the work
<ogra> ajmitch, but you achieved more than me ;)
* bddebian hides
<ogra> bddebian, kudos as well ;)
<bddebian> I'm hiding about UVF uploaders ;-)
<ajmitch> ogra: we'll arrange for more bug days during the dapper cycle then
<ogra> yup
<ajmitch> getting a group of people to discuss the bugs & work on it seems to have worked well
<ogra> we'll probably have and official bugmaster by then
* bddebian votes for persia ;-)
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> ogra: you won't be the bug master? :)
<ogra> (its wanted, we sadly missed to get luis :( )
<ajmitch> ogra: someone employed, or some poor volunteer?
<ogra> ajmitch, depends how edubuntu will go on... if it still is my main responsibility i wont have time
<ogra> i guess someone will get hired if we dont get volunteers... but i'm not the one to decide such things so dont take me serious here ;)
<ajmitch> yep
* ajmitch doesn't think he'll be stepping forth as bug master any time soon :)
<ajmitch> ok, time for sleep, see you tomorrow
* ogra goes voting
<\sh> gnarf
<\sh> fixed libhid
<slomo> \sh: congrats :) what was broken?
<slomo> ajmitch: what about making a bug day every half month/15 days?
<bmonty_laptop> hi everyone
<\sh> not fixed
<\sh> gnarf
<\sh> slomo: python2.4
<\sh> but now ;)
<\sh> fcking workarounds
<\sh> I will kick madduck ;)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: were you able to try a build with ace?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: infinity did :)
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: uploaded...u forget to mention one switch for 00options
<\sh> 14:54 #ubuntu-devel: < infinity> \sh : For future reference, using CPP preprocessing in 00list doesn't work unless you enable dpatch's optional CPP parsing. :)  (DPATCH_OPTION_CPP=1 in debian/patches/00options)
<bmonty_laptop> didn't know that
<bmonty_laptop> but removing the flag for a powerpc and amd64 build made it work?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/ace/5.4.7-3ubuntu1/ace_5.4.7-3ubuntu1_20050918-1411-i386-successful.gz
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/ace/5.4.7-3ubuntu1/ace_5.4.7-3ubuntu1_20050918-1408-amd64-successful.gz
* Mez sits back for a couple of years and hopes that this works
<siretart> hi Mez!
<Mez> hey siretart, sup
<\sh> hmm..one beer for me pls
<\sh> i fixed bloody libhid
<\sh> cheers guys
* slomo orders one beer for \sh :)
<\sh> bah...stinky package
<\sh> determines version numbers via aclocal.m4 and debian/changelog and gets fuzzy with -XubuntuY
<slomo> \sh: shall i upload libmms?
<\sh> slomo: it's promoted ;)
<slomo> \sh: what do you want to tell me with that? ;) it has 2 votes but is not uploaded yet? or it's in NEW? ;)
<_tonio> hello
<_tonio> I have a litle question concerning the usage of dpatch, I read about all documentation with it
<_tonio> but when I want to create a patch, launching dpatch-edit-patch, I get an error message
<slomo> _tonio: what error? (not that i use dpatch-edit-patch...)
<_tonio> make: *** Pas de rgle pour fabriquer la cible  unpatch . Arrt.
<_tonio> which litteraly means (no rules to create target <unpatch>. stop
<bmonty_laptop> _tonio: did you include the dpatch script in rules?
<bmonty_laptop> man dpatch.make
<\sh> slomo: upload it :) 2 motus are enough :)
<_tonio> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
<_tonio> isn't that ok ? is that another patch system ?
<slomo> \sh: ok... i just wanted to know if it's already in NEW =) i hate REJECTED mails :P
<bmonty_laptop> _tonio: that is the cdbs patch system
<bmonty_laptop> I think you have to use cdbs-edit-patch instread
<_tonio> ahhhhhhhhhhh oki ;)
<_tonio> works the same way ?
<\sh> slomo: not that I know off
<\sh> slomo: but check breezy-changes ;) you should get accepted or it must be shown up there..NEW==not in overrides
<bmonty_laptop> _tonio: I think so, I haven't used the cdbs patch system...I think the concept is the same
<\sh> doing some RL work...brb
<slomo> \sh: it's only on breezy-changes when it's out of NEW
<_tonio> okay, I'm building the last version of qtparted, and the code is a mess, you cannot imagine !
<_tonio> is there a problem on revu ?
<_tonio> I get this during upload :
<_tonio> Uploading via ftp kinstaller_0.2-0ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of kinstaller_0.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<_tonio> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<\sh> slomo: yes..but u should get a kati mail..and I didn't upload anything from revu in the last days;)
<slomo> \sh: no... he should get a katie mail ;) well, it's uploaded now :)
<\sh> slomo: if he's whitelisted ;)
<slomo> \sh: he most probably isn't :P
<\sh> bah I hate libhid
<\sh> HOLY SHIT i did it now
<\sh> but with auto* dance in rules...the rest was to crappy ;)
<_tonio> concerning packages that have a multiverse dep
<_tonio> what is the process for testing the package threw pbuilder, and of course uploading it ?
<siretart> _tonio: wait, I'll check the upload queue
<\sh> _tonio: become a motu
<siretart> _tonio: yes, there were some leftover files, please reupload
<\sh> or to revu?
<_tonio> thanks siretart
<_tonio> \sh: in fact I wanna package soundkonverter
<_tonio> it has mplayer dependency, and I would like to upload it, that app rocks !
<siretart> _tonio: did you upload kmplayer?
<_tonio> but don't know the process in fact..... Becoming a motu is in my plans, but I don't have time actually to get my key signed....
<_tonio> yep, but without mplayer, because this dep is optionnal it can use xine, ffmpeg etc...
<_tonio> I will correct it and put mplayer in "Recommended" maybe.
<siretart> _tonio: ok, may I archive your upload. you didn't answer on daniels question since aug 4
<_tonio> let me check...... I dont think so, i'm doing it tight now, just a sec ;)
<_tonio> Ho last version has a very clean debian folder, nice ;)
<siretart> _tonio: so you will definitly do another kmplayer upload?
<_tonio> yep, certainly another new upload, with mplayer-386 in recommended to avoid the universe limit
<_tonio> is that a correct way to process siretart ?
<siretart> why mplayer-386? what about ppc and amd64 users?
<siretart> and remember, mplayer is in multiverse, you may not depend or recommend (suggest is imo okay) on packages in multiverse in packages in universe
<_tonio> your're right....
<_tonio> siretart: which one is generic ? mplayer-nogui ?
<siretart> _tonio: check the mplayer packages, at least mplayer-386 Provides: mplayer
<_tonio> siretart: you mean ? sorry my english is sometime a bit limited ;)
<_tonio> in fact I don't see any package for amd64 or mac....
<\sh> hmmm
<slomo> _tonio: for mplayer dependencies look at mozilla-mplayer
<slomo> _tonio: the amd64 package is just mplayer... the mac ones are mplayer-powerpc and mplayer-g4
<\sh> what the hack is this ?
<\sh> can someone show on wxwindows2.4 and what is the version?
<_tonio> slomo: I don't see those packages ;) Specific repos ?
<slomo> \sh: W: Unable to locate package wxwindows2.4
<slomo> _tonio: just multiverse ;)
<\sh> apt-cache showsrc wxwindows2.4
<slomo> \sh: Version: 2.4.4.1ubuntu1
<\sh> and now check your unmet deps
<slomo> \sh: hmm... the version number is unusual ;)
<\sh> LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet
<\sh> for wxpython2.4-1
<slomo> \sh: LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep wxp
<slomo> \sh: finds nothing
<\sh> slomo: do an update ;)
<\sh> Package wxpython2.4-1 version 2.4.4ubuntu6 has an unmet dep: Depends: libwxgtk2.4-1-python (= 2.4.4ubuntu6)
<\sh> but i can't find any package in debian/control of the source
<slomo> \sh: wxpython2.4-1 is deprecated afaik... it's python-wxgtk2.4 or similar now
<slomo> \sh: maybe an old package in the archives
<\sh> Package: python-wxtools
<\sh> Architecture: all
<\sh> Section: python
<\sh> Depends: python-wxgtk2.4, ${shlibs:Depends}
<\sh> Conflicts: libwxgtk2.4-python, wxpython2.4-1
<\sh> Replaces: libwxgtk2.4-python, wxpython2.4-1
<slomo> \sh: change the depends
<slomo> \sh: python-wxgtk2.4
<siretart> \sh: I have only an unmet dep on wxpython2.5.3
<\sh> i have 2.4 and 2.6
<siretart> shawarma: wxpython 2.4 is afaik not deprecated, 2.5 is for sure
<siretart> 2.5 is in hoary, and creates upgrade problems to breezy with 2.6
<\sh> Package wxpython2.6-0 version 2.6.1.1ubuntu3 has an unmet dep: Depends: libwxgtk2.6-0-python (= 2.6.1.1ubuntu3)
<siretart> thats the reason why 2.5 was never in debian testing
<slomo> the 2.5 pcakages can be recompiled against 2.6 with no problems... normally ;)
<siretart> in general, yes
<\sh> i will ask doko_
<slomo> \sh: ok... but afaik that's just a broken dependency ;)
<\sh> slomo: shouldn't be there, if the package doesn't exist anymore
<\sh> I mean the source version and the binary version are different
<\sh> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wxwindows2.4/2.4.4.1ubuntu1/ it should be in the archives
<\sh> since the 22-08-2005
<\sh> actually is
<\sh> so where do i get the wxpython bla from...
<slomo> \sh: again... python-wxgtk2.4 ;)
<\sh> slomo: yes...but it shouldn't be in the unmet deps list, because the version is greater then 2.4.4ubuntu6 right?
<slomo> \sh: not sure... maybe 2.4.4ubuntu6 is higher than 2.4.4.1ubuntuX because letters are in general higher than numbers
<\sh> so it's a mistake
<\sh> I stop for today...grabbing some beer..to celebrate my holiday end ,-)
<\sh> brb
<_tonio> slomo: that's okay for kmplayer, I know what to do, but concerning soundkonverter ? How to provide this package for multiverse if I'm not a motu ?
* _tonio opens his beer for \sh 
<slomo> _tonio: soundconverter? this is already in universe
<_tonio> ah ?
<slomo> _tonio: and just upload it to revu ;)
<_tonio> hum..... soundkonverter, soundconverter.... are we talking about the same package ?
<_tonio> I'm talking about a kde application
<slomo> _tonio: ok, and i'm talking about a gnome application :)
<slomo> so just upload it to revu ;)
<_tonio> okay
<_tonio> and how to test the building with pbuilder before uploading ? can I activate multivate multiverse for pbuilder ?
<slomo> _tonio: sure... the same way how you activated universe
<slomo> OTHERMIRROR="deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe multiverse restricted"
<_tonio> slomo: thanks ;)
<_tonio> what would you suggest for the packaging of an application that installs .so file, and doesn't need to create -dev package, because this lib isn't used by any application ?
<_tonio> riddell suggests me to build like that, but daniel disagrees because that make a lintian warning on the binary .....
<_tonio> I don't know what to do ;)
<slomo> _tonio: ask the debian policy ;)
<_tonio> but as a motu, would you validate that kind of package ? just to know what to do ;)
<slomo> _tonio: i wouldn't know ;) so probably not... would be better when to applications installs it's stuff into /usr/lib/$package ;)
<_tonio> ;)
<slomo> what package is it?
<_tonio> hum let me check.... the is kinstaller, but I have to reupload it
<_tonio> and.....
<\sh> _tonio: what error message of linitian?
<_tonio> * non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink usr/lib/libkatalog.so.0.0.0 usr/lib/libkatalog.so (might need splitting out - or talk to upstream how to deal with it)
<_tonio> dh asked me to see with the kubuntu guys, and riddell seems okay, that's not a problem for him
<slomo> _tonio: when no other package uses this... you can try statically linking the library
<_tonio> which means ?
<\sh> ah
<slomo> _tonio: patching and work ;)
<\sh> no...it should be only .so
<\sh> it's application dependend...no other app is using it...so should be handled like ioslave- so's
<_tonio> \sh: I'm not sure to understand what you mean... -> english limited
<\sh> e.g libkontact.so.1.0.0 -> libkontact.so.1 only
<\sh> no .so
<\sh> if it's a plugin then u use .so only without versioning and a .la file..but for applications installing their libs...it should be libkatalog.so.1.0.0 and libkatalog.so.1
<_tonio> k
<_tonio> so I have to patch the sources, let's go
<\sh> u should patch your autocrap stuff :)
<\sh> how old is the admin/ dir?
<_tonio> 2 days old
<\sh> it's not the same coming from kdevelop? i mean the admin dir is generated by kdevelop from templates....and those ones are old
<\sh> normally
<\sh> hmmm....there is no new version from katalog?
<\sh> s/from/of/
<_tonio> yep, I'll take the tarball again I think ;)
<\sh> _tonio: is katalog in kde svn? extragear or something like this?
<\sh> if somebody wants to have fun...aqsis ;) http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387
<_tonio> I don't think so... concerning the date of admin folder, this is due to the my removing of cvs folder in the tarball
<\sh> _tonio: take an admin dir from kde-3.4.2 svn...and update it
<\sh> (as patch please ;))
<\sh> and recheck, if it's generating the correct libs and not those wrong ones
<_tonio> \sh I'm trying this, thanks ;)
<sjmorgan> is it possible for somebody to build the latest quodlibet package from debian?
<slomo> sjmorgan: why? what is new?
<sjmorgan> http://www.sacredchao.net/quodlibet/milestone?id=EF%2FQL+0.13.1
<sjmorgan> 0.11 is in ubuntu and since then there's been 0.12, 0.13 and 0.13.1
<slomo> are there any critical bugfixes or just new features?
<sjmorgan> i dunno
<sjmorgan> does there need to be critical bug fixes for a package to be built?
<slomo> or something which is really needed... currently at least... after breezy release all packages which are newer in debian will be synced automatically but for breezy we're in upstream version freeze
<sjmorgan> oh, ok
<slomo> what are the reason why you want to have the new version? :)
<sjmorgan> gstreamer backend + new id3 library
<sjmorgan> i could build a package myself but it would be nice if it was in universe
<sjmorgan> like i say 0.11 is a few versions old
<sjmorgan> it's changed quite a bit since then
<slomo> then it's maybe better to wait for dapper... when so many things have changed there is a great risk of many new bugs or regressions
<sjmorgan> fair enough
<\sh> lol...funny funny..our voting here
<slomo> \sh: yes... but i doubt something good can come from this ;)
<\sh> I'm watching the livestream from ard...the round table of big elephants
<_tonio> \sh: same error using a recent admin folder.....
<_tonio> I don't know where is created the link..... an idea ? I'm searching in the sources but.... i'm not a developper ;)
<\sh> _tonio: u made a make -f admin/Makefile.common ?
<\sh> or make -f Makefile.cvs
<_tonio> ah no ;) just replaced the admin folder, and supposed it was enough ;)
<\sh> no u have to regenerate...so make -f admin/Makefile.common
<_tonio> okay with a patch also
<siretart> the results make me very sad :(
<_tonio> \sh: tried but now during pbuilder I have this :
<\sh> siretart: don't worry...watch ard...and u have a lot of fun...I think schroeder is drunk ,-)
<_tonio> WARNING: use unsermake instead of make or use a wrapper script, e.g. makeobj!!!
<_tonio> unsermake install
<_tonio> Wrong parameters.
<\sh> yes
<slomo> siretart: nothing unexpected imho... but nonetheless sad... the next years probably will be chaotic political ;)
<\sh> now u should patch the rest
<slomo> \sh: "galgenhumor"? ;)
<\sh> _tonio: the source of katalog is old..very old
<siretart> \sh: I'm watching it all the time. I think he is on crack..
<\sh> slomo / siretart: read my comment on a blog of a friend: http://sushee.geekheim.de/?p=364#comments
<\sh> what I'm thinking about a bug coalition sorry, big i mean
<_tonio> \sh: so what to do ? Forgetting the package ? ;)
<\sh> _tonio: patch it :)
<\sh> make it running :)
<siretart> slomo: \sh: did you notice revu-build?
<_tonio> \sh: well appart from the link to .so it works !! Isn't there a param to use during compilation to avoid the creation of that link ?
<_tonio> and according to certain personns this error can be ignored, for example riddell
<\sh> siretart: where is it ?
<siretart> \sh: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/Revu1Building
<siretart> \sh: slomo: please place a .forward on tiber in your homes.
<siretart> I should have written revu-build a lot earlier, I think..
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart> huhu bddebian
<slomo> siretart: hm, what is .forward for? forwarding our mails to some other address? what's the syntax for that file? just a email address?
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya siretart, slomo
<siretart> slomo: just do a `echo yourmail@example.com > ~/.forward` on tiber
<siretart> slomo: you may also configure procmail, if you prefer ;)
<\sh> _tonio: siretart done
<slomo> siretart: not necessary... i already run procmail on my router ;)
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<slomo> siretart: done :)
<_tonio> ah ;)
<bddebian> _tonio: Did you ever have any luck with the qmake stuff?
<_tonio> bddebian: not at the moment ;)
<bddebian> :-(
<ivoks> hello
<siretart> \sh: gajim is trying to sign my 'away' messages. is there any way to get rid of that behavior?
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<\sh> siretart: it's correct behaviour regarding the JEP :)
<siretart> I don't want to be annoyed every 10 min being asked about my passphrase
<siretart> \sh: acording to JEP? main upstream?
<\sh> siretart: xmpp spec
<siretart> grmpf
<siretart> I disagree
<ivoks> gajim rulz
<\sh> siretart: lets wait for OTR support in gajim ;)
<siretart> hi ivoks
<siretart> OTR?
<ivoks> hi siretart
<ivoks> hi bddebian
<ivoks> hi \sh
<\sh> Off The Record Encryption
<ivoks> anyone else? :)
<\sh> hey ivoks
<siretart> ok. I eagerly await sip on xmpp ;)
<\sh> well...
<\sh> Another beer?
<\sh> yes
<slomo> \sh: good idea :)
* ivoks loves my crypted usb stick
<\sh> siretart: www-data 25999 26914  0 14:35 ?        00:00:00 [revu-key]  <defunct>
<siretart> fuck
<siretart> need to leave, cu.
<siretart> sorry
<ivoks> bye
<bddebian> Later siretart
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> we have one zombie app in repo :)
<ivoks> qdvdauthor
<ivoks> it contains pixmap and .desktop file
<ivoks> but no app :)
<slomo> ivoks: very useful :) maybe it failed compiling and the makefile is broken?
<ivoks> slomo: checking as we speek
<shackan> your nautilus-python seems buggy, the latest cvs works fine, is there any chance to update it ?
<shackan> "yes it's possible" or "no, go sit in a corner and wait for depper" ?
<ivoks> b)
<ivoks> :))
<shackan> :\
<ivoks> how buggy?
<ivoks> and you are reffering to whom?
<shackan> uhm, can crash nautilus
<ivoks> W: Unable to locate package nautilus-python
<shackan> to anyone who can respond..., I don't know how things work here
<shackan> ops, python-nautilus
<shackan> ( in the CVS it's called nautilus-python, that's why, sorry )
<ivoks> so, how can i reproduce crash?
<shackan> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=316595
<shackan> happens with every python extension I tried
<\sh> what?
<shackan> \sh, install a gnome-vfs module written in python, then, install a nautilus extension written in python, then, run the aforementioned gnome-vfs module, then nautilus cries and dies
<bddebian> If a package Depends: foo (= 1.0.34)  but we have foo 1.0.34-0build1, how shoudl I change the Depends?  >= 1.0.34 or >=1.0.34 (<< 1.0.35)???
<slomo> bddebian: $package (>= 1.0.34), $package (<< 1.0.35)
<slomo> bddebian: but is this really needed there?
<\sh> bddebian: then say better $package (= 1.0.34)
<bddebian> ??
<\sh> >= 1.0.34 << 1.0.35 == = 1.0.34
<ivoks> 1.0.34
<ivoks> 1.0.34-0asdasd1 = 1.0.34
<ivoks> -0asdasd1 is revision, not version
<ivoks> anyway, i can reporoduce this python thing
<bddebian> Oh, it doesn't have a revision, sorry it's just 1.0.34build2
<ivoks> i can't :)
<\sh> well...if we have 1.0.34-0ubuntu1 and then he should tighten it...if we have 1.0.34-1 then we have to >=1.0.34 << 1.0.35
<\sh> bddebian: what? native package?
<bddebian> \sh: Dunno it's survex
<\sh> not 1.0.34-1build2?
<shackan> ivoks, works fine on you ?
<bddebian> \sh: Nope
<ivoks> shackan: i can't get pyvfs roking at all
<shackan> why?
<ivoks> sec..
<bddebian> \sh: The first build1 they did, they just did 1.0.34build1
<shackan> export PYTHONPATH=$(pwd):$PYTHONPATH; mkdir /tmp/pyfs; export TMPDIR=/tmp/pyfs; nautilus --no-desktop pyfs:///
<Mithrandir> what's pyfs?
<crimsun> bddebian: take a look at the output from: dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.34 eq 1.0.34build2 && echo "yes"
<shackan> Mithrandir, just a demo module
<ivoks> "pyfs:///" is not a valid location
<bddebian> crimsun: Then I don't understand why survex-aven has an unmet dep
<shackan> ivoks, even doing the above ^^^ (sorry for abusing your patience)
<ivoks> shackan: yup
<ivoks> shackan: is this hoary or breeyz?
<ivoks> breezy
<ivoks> lots of typos today :/
<shackan> fresh breezy
<ivoks> libgnomevfs-WARNING **: module '/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/libpythonmethod.so' returned a NULL handle
<shackan> I assume you copied pyfs.conf in the appropriate directory and killall nautilus before doing it
<ivoks> yup
<crimsun> bddebian: hmm? The output from dpkg --compare-versions explains why.
<shackan> sigh..
<crimsun> bddebian: the Dep in debian/control needs to be updated
<ivoks> shackan: so, your pyfs.conf is where?
<ivoks> shackan: i don't have .gnome2/vfs/modules
<bddebian> crimsun: That's what I asked originally.  BTW, I don't get anything from --compare-versions
<crimsun> bddebian: dpkg --compare-versions tells you that 1.0.34 != 1.0.34build2
<bddebian> OK, so Dep: survex (>= 1.0.34), survex (<< 1.0.35) ?
<shackan> ivoks, /etc/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/pyfs.conf
<crimsun> bddebian: that's tolerable, or use substvars to generate the version at compile-time
<Mithrandir> bddebian: tfheen@thosu:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.34 = 1.0.34build2 && echo true || echo not true
<Mithrandir> not true
<Mithrandir> look at the return value
<crimsun> yeah, it'll return 1
<ivoks> shackan: same thing again...
<ivoks> killall -9 nautilus; export PYTHONPATH=$(pwd):$PYTHONPATH; mkdir /tmp/pyfs; export TMPDIR=/tmp/pyfs; nautilus --no-desktop pyfs:///
<shackan> this, from the folder where pyfs.py is, right ?
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> it's gziped :)
<ivoks> so, now what? it opend.
<ivoks> shackan: it works
<shackan> ok
<shackan> ok, no crash after installing any of /usr/share/doc/python-nautilus/examples/
<ivoks> didn't try
<shackan> that's what triggers the bug
<shackan> is seems gnome-vfs and python extensions, both written in python, don't mix together
<shackan> ops, s/python/nautilus/1
<spacey> gpg encryption with gajim doesn't work at allll
<spacey> :S
<ivoks> it is kind of buggy :)
<spacey> just doesn't work :o
<spacey> broadcasting of keys doesn't work
<_tonio> \sh: I'm searching for a way to correct the non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink error
<spacey> and if i assign it manually we can't decrypt each others messages
<ivoks> spacey: ivoks@grad.hr
<_tonio> and it apears that there is a folder /usr/share/lintian/overrides than tells lintian to ignore certain errors
<_tonio> there is no know way to avoid that error according to what I can read....
<_tonio> riddell's katapult package has the same error for example, but has been added, so I must say I am confused on that point...
<\sh> _tonio: then go the lintian override way
<shackan> ivoks
<ivoks> yes?
<shackan> thanks for just trying :)
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> well, it doesn't crash
<shackan> even with < any nautilus-python ext here > installed ?
<ivoks> i installed that pyconf
<ivoks> or what was it;s name
<ivoks> and it worked
<shackan> yes, it's supposed to work
<shackan> the problem is not there, the problem is python-nautilus
<_tonio> \sh: this is what I am doing, just reproducing what riddell has already done in other packages ;)
<ivoks> ok, what do i have to do to reproduce the bug?
<ivoks> shackan: it's late over here and i'm loosing concentration
<shackan> sudo cp /usr/share/doc/python-nautilus/examples/*.py /usr/lib/nautilus/extensions-1.0/python/
<shackan> sorry
<ivoks> so, don't be mad if i'm... slow :)
<shackan> no no
<shackan> I'm not
<ivoks> ok, did that
<shackan> now do the pyfs:/// trick of before
<shackan> (sigh, I should have written a shell script to do all of that, sorry)
<ivoks> eh...
<ivoks> restart app
<shackan> uh?
<shackan> what happens?
<ivoks> >>pyfs.__init__<< pyfs None
<ivoks> and it dies
<shackan> YES!!!!!
<shackan> that's it!
<ivoks> but...
<shackan> you see, it worked before!
<ivoks> you can do this in many ways
<shackan> do what?
<ivoks> sec
<shackan> ok
<ivoks> yeah, ok, it's a bug
<shackan> thanks :D
<shackan> ok, now the workaround is to take python-nautilus from cvs, should I bugzilla this ?
<ivoks> no, malone
<ivoks> launchpad.net/malone
<ivoks> shackan: do you know a patch for this bug?
<ivoks> since i doubt we will take CVS...
<shackan> ouch, well, I could try diff'ing from CVS, if I knew what version you're using
<ivoks> apt-cache show python-nautilus | grep Version
<ivoks> shackan: sec...
<ivoks> ok, nothing..
<ivoks> report it and we will see what to do with it
<shackan> ok, sorry I don't know how to see what is the cvs revision your version comes from
<ivoks> oh...
<ivoks> my, my, my...
<ivoks> works with deiban's version
<ivoks> but...
<ivoks> debian's is for 2.3 python
<shackan> debian uses 2.3 ?? it's damn old...
<ivoks> shackan: our version is 0.3.0 release
<ivoks> ah, just report it..
<ajmitch> morning
<ivoks> we will take care of it
<ivoks> ajmitch: morning
<ivoks> ajmitch: you can take over now :)
<ajmitch> no I can't
<ajmitch> I'm leaving for work in 2 minutes
<ivoks> ah, monday :)
<ivoks> bddebian should be around :)
<ajmitch> yeah
* ajmitch can be a non-motu like usual
<ivoks> ah, /me dreams bed
<ivoks> see you
<ajmitch> bye
<bddebian> ??\
<_tonio> \sh: it works, no more lintian error in the override way ;)
<\sh> _tonio: upload ;)
<_tonio> done for klibido
<_tonio> I'm correcting kdetv and kftpgrabber the same way ;)
<_tonio> \sh: done for katalog sorry ;) -> actually working on klibido and done the confusion ;)
<\sh> _tonio: k
* \sh is smoking the last cigarette...before going to bed...
* _tonio somkes to much too...
<\sh> ok...g'night guys...tomorrow more
<_tonio> problem with pbuilder....
<_tonio> OTHERMIRROR="deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe multiverse restricted" -> added to pbuilderrc but it doesn't consider multiverse.........
<ajmitch> pbuilder update
<_tonio> doesn't work ;) it doesn't update multiverse
<ajmitch> right, you may need to update the sources.list inside the chroot
<ajmitch> which you can do with pbuilder login --save-after-login
<ajmitch> which gets you into the chroot to edit
<_tonio> ajmitch: isn't editing /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/sources.list enough ?
<ajmitch> don't think so
<ajmitch> depends on how you have it setup, iirc
<_tonio> k
<_tonio> sudo pbuilder update --override-config ;)
<_tonio> just need to override config after modifing sources.list
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-24
<bddebian> Anyone know of software that can convert Real Media RAX files to something useful?
<jbailey> I have a crazy urge to bump mailx to recommeds rather than depends of cron-apt.  hmm
<hub__> is there a way to build a package for amd64 as I don't have such a machine?
<hub__> I want to make sure I fixed all the issues
<hub__> if I use CDBS for building, shall I depend automatically on patchutils if I have patches?
<jbailey> patchutils?
<jbailey> Like for simple-patchsys?
<jbailey> It's all included in cdbs.
<ajmitch> patch is pulled in by build-essential in any case
<hub__> ok
<hub__> that's just what I wanted to know.
<hub__> now I need to figure out if I need more patches for 64-bits arch
<jbailey> hub__: What package?
<hub__> jbailey: hugin
<hub__> jbailey: it is on REVU
<jbailey> The current one in the archive?
<hub__> on REVU
<jbailey> Sorry, I don't know what that is.
<hub__> dh said it does not build. I supposedly have a fix
<hub__> but I can't check it, and I can't see if there is more
<hub__> perhaps shoudl I just install a 64bits cross compiler and have fun with it
<hub__> ...
<hub__> that remind, I have to register for UBZ
<bmonty_laptop> anyone looked at #341 in malone?
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Not me :-)  BTW, did you close 730, et al that you did last night? :-)
<bmonty_laptop> not yet
<bmonty_laptop> I have them all written down at my desk though
<bmonty_laptop> 341 is for the thinkpad (which I use)....the package in breezy works, but it doesn't start the tpb daemon when the package is installed
<bddebian> I don't understand why torcs has a problem with AC_CHECK_LIB (m, sin, ,AC_MSG_ERROR([...] )) ???
<bmonty_laptop> I really hate autoconf...
<LaserJock> heah bddebian, I was able to make packages for mopac7 and libghemical with mopac7 support
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Who doesn't? :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Awesome, good work
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure what you guys want. I made a little repo with the work I have been doing. It has the source and binary packages of mopac7 and libghemica right now
<LaserJock> I also have a debdiff
<LaserJock> The mopac7 is just built from the Debian source without any modifications (I added a ubuntu1 version so it would go in my repo right) but libghemical was changed a bit
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi bddebian
<tritium> what's up, bddebian ?
<bddebian> torcs build problems.  You?
<tritium> bddebian, same old, fixing the roof, helping sister move, etc.
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> bddebian: who do I need to give my stuff to? Or should I just post a link on the UniverseUnmetDeps wiki?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Post on UniverseUnmetDeps
<LaserJock> ok, what are the chances of getting libmopac7 from Debian, because I can fix the ghemical unmet dep with my libghemical but I am creating another one:-( in the process.
<bddebian> ajmitch: Still around?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> what is it?
<bddebian> ajmitch: I can get the latest -8 version of grace6 to build (and install) from Debian just by adding a build-dep for libxp-dev.  It looks like you did the last merge, does that sound OK to you?
<ajmitch> sounds fine
* bddebian is upload shaky atm
<ajmitch> since it's not a new upstream anyway :)
* ajmitch notes that grace6 still has an open RC bug in sid
<bddebian> Oh, hmm, should I wait?
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> the bug is meaningless turf wars over who maintains it
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> so, who do I need complain to :-) mopac7 from Debian into Universe?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Do we not have it at all?
<LaserJock> nope
<ajmitch> because it had its first upload into sid in july
<bddebian> Ohh
<bddebian> LaserJock: Does it build clean from Debian?
<bddebian> AND install? ;-)
<LaserJock> for me, yes
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's another of azeem's packages
<bddebian> Well then is HAS to be good :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<bddebian> Hmm, why would pbuilder build not be able to find libplot-dev ?  It worked in my pbuilder login and in my normal environment??
<ajmitch> pbuilder update ?
<bddebian> Should'nt that affect my pbuilder login environment too?
<ajmitch> sure :)
* ajmitch really needs to sort out his diskspace issues
<ajmitch> /dev/mapper/vg1-home   59G   57G  715M  99% /mnt/new-home
<ajmitch> which is where I do my ubuntu building
<LaserJock> bummer
<ajmitch> yeah
* ajmitch needs to do some online resizing of it :)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> WTF?? invalid Build-Depends field (can not be parsed by apt)
<ajmitch> bddebian: want to ship me a new drive? 300+ GB should be about enough ;)
<bddebian> Sure man
<ajmitch> hehe
* ajmitch spots a 250GB drive for $210 NZ
<ajmitch> if my power supply can handle it, it might be worthwhile
* Lathiat found 240GB drives to be the most cost effective atm
<Lathiat> 250 probably the same
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> I've got 120 & 160 in my box at the moment
<ajmitch> but it still has ~55GB unallocated in LVM that I can rearrange to the needed volumes
<ajmitch> which I should use before I do too much spending :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: malone 2393 ?
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Don't rub it in
<ajmitch> I'm just asking if you'd seen it
<bddebian> No
<ajmitch> don't take everything I say as an insult :P
<bddebian> Sorry, I'm a little touchy about wesnoth ;-)
<ajmitch> s/about wesnoth//
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta go. Is there a wiki page or something where I can check if or when mopac7 has made it into universe?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: good spotting that the banshee bug on u-d was a self-compile :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no wiki page, where have you put the request for inclusion of mopac7?
<LaserJock> well, here i guess :-)
<LaserJock> I really don't know where it should go
<ajmitch> ok.. :)
<ajmitch> irc isn't always the most reliable for getting stuff done
* ajmitch will try & remember to ask for it to be synced
<ajmitch> since I have a list of things to send off to elmo
<LaserJock> well, what is the "offical" way to get Debian stuff in Universe?
<ajmitch> it gets automatically imported near the start of the development cycle
<ajmitch> otherwise one of us with upload rights asks for a manual sync
<ajmitch> or if changes need to be made, we upload
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<LaserJock> thanks guys, gotta go
<bddebian> Later LaserJock
<ajmitch> bye
<Lathiat> 'Software is like sex, is better when it's free' (Linux Torvalds)
<Lathiat> Yosel Del Valle P.
<Lathiat> poor linus
<bddebian> Uhm, what happened to libxmerl-erlang?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: has bochs built yet?
<ajmitch> hm, no build logs
<ajmitch> probably dep-wait on one of the new packages?
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> shouldnt be
<Lathiat> vgabios went through.
<Lathiat> at least i thought it did
* Lathiat checks
<Lathiat> yep
<ajmitch> well I see no 2.2.* build logs yet
<ajmitch> even though I saw it on breezy-changes
<Lathiat> interesting
<ajmitch> ask lamont-away to poke it, I guess?
<Lathiat> yeh
<bddebian> Well I gotta hit the rack.  Gnight gents
<Lathiat> i cant see anything thats versioned that it would be depping on
<ajmitch> universe/misc/bochs_2.2.1-2: Dep-Wait by buildd+terranova [extra:out-of-date]  Dependencies: aalib1-dev
<ajmitch> which is crack
<ajmitch> since it build-deps on libaa1-dev, so the dep-wait needs cleared by lamont-away or infinity
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> how did you figure that out?
<Lathiat> 
<ajmitch> people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.i386
<pef> hello
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> good morning andrew - i'm gfine, thanks :)
<dholbach> how are you?
<dholbach> how was your bugday? ;)
<ajmitch> it wasn't my bug day
<ajmitch> it belonged to everyone who took part :)
<ajmitch> but it went really well, we had some great volunteers doing massive cleanups
<Treenaks> All your bug day are belong to us!?
<ajmitch> we down to < 500 bugs open on malone
<ajmitch> and a whole lot more filed
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: you can have my bugs, no problem. :-)
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: hey!
<ajmitch> evening Treenaks, Mithrandir
<dholbach> yeah, it was great - i was absolutely amazed
<Mithrandir> good morning ajmitch
<dholbach> hey tollef
<dholbach> did they work on bugzilla too? a bit, it seems
<ajmitch> dholbach: how's apt-get.org going?
<dholbach> i had absolutely no time yet :/
<ajmitch> a bit, but it wasn't as easy to do decent bugzilla work
<dholbach> i think i will start this afternoon
<ajmitch> we had our hands full with malone
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch was looking at how much there was to review today
<ajmitch> it's probably something I can actually help with :)
<dholbach> i suppose we could refresh the TODO lists, get cracking on those and briefly review a bit of the REVU crack
<ajmitch> there look to be a few hundred packages there
<ajmitch> at a low count
<dholbach> the re-build of universe has started too
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> but it's not much on it
<ajmitch> I thought that was on-going anyway?
* Mithrandir goes to work
* ajmitch thinks we'll still have a TODO list a mile long on release day
<dholbach> we will manage
<ajmitch> so many volunteers who have so little time
<dholbach> we will prioritize our work
<dholbach> (have to)
<ajmitch> yep
<dholbach> i think that's what we learned from pre-hoary
<dholbach> we can't fix ALL the stupid/old/crackful packages ;)
<ajmitch> we don't want to
<dholbach> but we'll do our best
* ajmitch has to ask for a UVF-breaking sync of a few packages :)
<dholbach> main ones?
<ajmitch> no
<dholbach> which ones?
<ajmitch> I got approval for a UVF break in main though
<ajmitch> but my key isn't it
<ajmitch> s/it/in/
<ajmitch> packages I maintain in debian
<ajmitch> so I can know that they're safe :)
<dholbach> ah super
<ajmitch> and a new package (mopac7)
<ajmitch> and eventually upload new avahi debs
* Treenaks points at bugzilla #14513 
<Lathiat> wheres my patch ! ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: bah, get over it :P
<ajmitch> debdiff & filterdiff didn't work
<Lathiat> patch -Nru avahi-0.4/debian avahi-0.5'/debian ?
<ajmitch> s/patch/diff/
<Lathiat> you know what i mean ;)
<shawarma> quit
<dholbach> bye shawarma :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: http://ajmitch.dyndns.win.co.nz/debuild/ubuntu/mono/0.4-0.5.debdiff
<shawarma> LOL
<shawarma> Whoops
<ajmitch> happy? ;)
<Lathiat> i see that was a hard change
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it was a very hard change
* Lathiat fires it off
<ajmitch> a single .install, build-deps, and dh_* calls :)
<Lathiat> + .
<Lathiat> + This package contains the CLI bindings to
<Lathiat> \ No newline at end of file
<ajmitch> ah well
<ajmitch> you can fill that in ;)
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> moins
<\sh> ah...finally back at work ;)
<ajmitch> lucky you
<ajmitch> so more time for breezy? ;)
* ajmitch really needs to get a nice fast computer
<ajmitch> because it's really cold in my room at the moment
<dholbach> take an ia64
<ajmitch> I couldn't afford the power bill :)
<dholbach> then don't try to heat with electricity
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<lukoko> Hi, I have a question: If i need .deb package of some application, and such package doesnt exist. what do i do?
<lukoko> only source is available..
<lukoko> i used to make my own packages by using "checkinstall make install", but i doubt if it is the right way.
<dholbach> brb
<\sh> hahaha
<\sh> 3 more people with ubuntu on their laptops in our company :)
<\sh> voice of this morning: "Hey, I installed Ubuntu Hoary on my Laptop...and fck the hell...it just works"
<\sh> "not like my suse"
<sivang> morning all :-)
<Treenaks> \sh: give him a breezy disc ;)
<Treenaks> sivang: hi
<lukoko> right, i have not ever found such computer where ubuntu doesnt works correctly just after install
<Treenaks> lukoko: oh they exist, believe me :)
<lukoko> of course
<lukoko> but compared with others ubuntu supports hardware very well
<Treenaks> true
<Treenaks> My dad was completely surprised that his multimedia keyboard keys worked out of the box
<Lathiat> \sh: haha
<Treenaks> even in Windows he'd needed drivers for that
<Lathiat> Treenaks: heh
<Lathiat> they dont work properly here
<Lathiat> even tho theyre set
<Lathiat> i have to go in
<Lathiat> and change it (to the same thing)
<Lathiat> before they work
<Lathiat> i filed a bug but no one else seems to have that problem..
<Lathiat> oh and my volume keys work, just my play/stop/back/forward dont
<jsgotangco> err guys i just upgraded its askming for an answer in readahead, will i keep my existing or install the new version?
<Mithrandir> jsgotangco: either; they should be the same.
<jsgotangco> ahh thanks
<lukoko> what should i do if i want to participate as ubuntu packages maintainer?
<\sh> woahahaa
<\sh> I just fixed someones slapd ;-) installed pbuilder fixed the stuff he needs...compiled it and now he's dancing like abbas dancing queen...hoary that is
<PDA_Monkey> :>
<Lathiat> \sh: heh what was wrong with it?
<\sh> Lathiat: it needed --enable-aci ,-)
<Lathiat> wassat do
<\sh> Lathiat: but this guy didn't know who to compile the stuff ,)
<\sh> s/who/how/
<shawarma> \sh: I'm curious: Have you actually tried the new version of vpnc?
<\sh> shawarma: i can't i don't have any vpn concentrators
<\sh> shawarma: but regarding the tickets..it should work
<shawarma> \sh: Tickets?
<\sh> malone
<shawarma> \sh: I couldn't find anything related to vpnc in Malone..
<shawarma> https://launchpad.net/malone/products?exact_name=1&text=vpnc
<\sh> thats products
<\sh> it was on the motu bugs list
<\sh> how can I find closed bug entries?
<shawarma> Argh... Silly me.
<shawarma> Well, I'm having serious problems with it. Stuff that renders it unusable, actually.
<shawarma> I don't have time to fix it right now. I'll look at it some time tomorrow.
<\sh> shawarma: vpnc is a VPN client...what's wrong? I have reports, that it works now :)
<shawarma> \sh: Well, the primary problem was vpnc-connect gone missing.
<\sh> shawarma: no it's not missing...it's vpnc-script now
<\sh> it was replaced in 0.3.3
<shawarma> \sh: It doesn't really do the same thing, though.
<\sh> shawarma: than it's upstream :)
<shawarma> vpnc-connect is a Debian/Ubuntu specific thing.
<shawarma> vpnc-connect offers a few things that vpnc-script doesn't.
<\sh> shawarma: no it was as well in upstream...but debian modified it...but vpnc-connect is not supported by upstream anymore...
<\sh> shawarma: so we have to fix vpnc-script
<shawarma> Besides, vpnc looks for vpnc-script in /etc/vpnc, but it's in /usr/sbin... I really can't see how anyone has got it working without either symlinking or patching it..
<shawarma> Oh, ok. Well, I suppose I'll do that, then.
<\sh> shawarma: ok :)
<shawarma> well, I'll fix it tomorrow.
<shawarma> vpnc also asks for stuff on the console even if the info is available in the conf file... It's really weird.
<\sh> hmmm...has anyone an idea how to search for fixed/rejected bugs in malone for a specific team/person?
<Lathiat> apparently there is no search yet and thats happening in november or something
<Lathiat> you could like at the +assignedbugs for that person and filter on status tho
<Lathiat> s/filter/sort
<\sh> Lathiat: but I can't see rejected/fixed bugs anymore in this list...
<Lathiat> \sh: oh
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs -> status sort
<Lathiat> of course
<Lathiat> silly me
<Lathiat> that sucks :)
<\sh> Lathiat: but I need to see those...
* Lathiat nods
<Lathiat> file a bug and kick it to the priority :)
* siretart misses closing malone bugs with changelogs 
<siretart> hi folks, btw ;)
<dholbach> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu dholbach
* siretart again filed 2 bugs against bugzilla :(
* ajmitch looks in
<Lathiat> dholbach: yay
<sladen> does anyone know what the tool generating the volume pop-up is, is it the sound control panel?
<Lathiat> dholbach: (quick-lounge-applet)
<Lathiat> sladen: gnome-settings-daemon
<Lathiat> setup via the keyboard shortcuts
<dholbach> Lathiat: i had the fix already uploaded before, but this is the proper release
<Lathiat> dholbach: ah
<Lathiat> dholbach: i tried to patch it
<Lathiat> and it was all fine
<Lathiat> but it didnt actually work
<dholbach> yep :)
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> for me it did
<Lathiat> i mean
<Lathiat> i wrote a fix
<Lathiat> a few weeks back
<dholbach> ah i see
<Lathiat> ported the api etc
<Lathiat> but it just froze when i tried to load up the menu bit
<Lathiat> and never got around to figuring out why
<sladen> Lathiat: ta.
<milanbabuskov> sh, hi
<milanbabuskov> r u reading this?
<\sh> yes
<milanbabuskov> I'm author of Njam game, remember me?
<\sh> yeah :)
<milanbabuskov> I installed Ubuntu recently, and now I'm trying to apt-get it
<milanbabuskov> but it looks like it isn't there?
<milanbabuskov>  apt-get install njam
<milanbabuskov> E: Couldn't find package njam
<\sh> milanbabuskov: breezy :)
<milanbabuskov> Oh, I see
<milanbabuskov> I have 5.04 installed
<\sh> milanbabuskov: 13th Octobre is release :)
<milanbabuskov> great... :)
<\sh> milanbabuskov: so if I grab some kubuntu cds I will send it to you :)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: thanx
<\sh> milanbabuskov: btw...i386 -> amd64 network game works
<\sh> milanbabuskov: good job u did :)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: that is great!!!
<milanbabuskov> \sh: I really didn't expect it to :)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: well, thanx for the info (breezy and stuff), I guess I should have thought of that myself ;)
<ivoks> doko: /me here
<\sh> milanbabuskov: but u can ask Mez to backport njam to hoary
<milanbabuskov> \sh: well, I do have two Hoary systems fully installed and running now (at work)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: so, that would be great (if you can spare some time)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: but it's not of some utmost importance. Do it if it's easy job...
<doko> ivoks: sent email
<milanbabuskov> \sh: I never made a .deb package, so I don't know how much time/effor it's takes
<ivoks> doko: i'm reading it... sorry
<hunger>  /me sighs.
<\sh> milanbabuskov: it's easy...I will ask mez :)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: thanx a bunch
<\sh> milanbabuskov: actually...I need to test ppc and i386 + ppc and amd64 network games ,-)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: yes, add a little endian mix into it :)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: I think that might not work
<\sh> milanbabuskov: well it compiled on ppc
<\sh> so it should work
<\sh> slomo_: ping did u tested njam on ppc
<milanbabuskov> \sh: OTOH, IIRC, all network code uses bytes (not words, ints, etc.) so
<slomo_> \sh: iirc it worked...
<milanbabuskov> \sh: njam surely works on ppc, since it works on MacOSX
<slomo_> \sh: but i haven't tested network
<milanbabuskov> \sh: it even works via network: Mac <-> Mac
<\sh> slomo_: if you have the time and possibility :) please test it ;)
<milanbabuskov> \sh: it also works on sparc hardware :)
<slomo> \sh: later maybe... need to learn :(
<\sh> slomo: have a look on #u-im...
<slomo> \sh: uh... so much text... mom ;)
<\sh> slomo: u have logging enabled?
<slomo> \sh: sure
<\sh> slomo: good...I need a log of this...
<slomo> ok, just tell me the minutes later :)
<\sh> doko: whats up with wxwindows2.4 and wxwindows2.6 I have unmet deps in my list ,-)
<slomo> \sh: what is this IPCF thing? but sounds nice :)
<\sh> slomo: http://ipcf.freedesktop.org/wiki/
<slomo> thanks
<slomo> haha... dbus... every new fd.o project has dbus written in their description =)
<slomo> hm, ipcf could be good :)
<doko> \sh: -> python-wxgtk2.4 or python-wxgtk2.6
<milanbabuskov> \sh: gotta go, see you later :)
<lamont-away> ajmitch: thanks - I --pretend-avail'ed libaa1-dev
<\sh> doko: but i don't find this in the control file
<\sh> doko: Package wxpython2.6-0 version 2.6.1.1ubuntu3 has an unmet dep: Depends: libwxgtk2.6-0-python (= 2.6.1.1ubuntu3)
<\sh> doko: same applies to 2.4
<doko> \sh: what can you not find?
<\sh> doko: wxpython package...it says that Package: python-wxtools
<\sh> is replacing/conflicting with wxpython
<\sh> doko: and last installed version is 2.4.4ubuntu6 for wxwindows2.4
<\sh> but 2.4.4.1ubuntu1 is in the archives as source package
<doko> $ apt-cache showsrc wxwidgets2.6
<doko> Package: wxwidgets2.6
<doko> Binary: python-wxtools, python-wxgtk2.6, libwxmsw2.6-dbg, wx2.6-i18n, wx2.6-examples, wx2.6-doc, libwxgtk2.6-dbg, wx-common, python-wxgtk2.6-dbg, libwxgtk2.6-0, wx2.6-headers-msw, libwxgtk2.6-dev, libwxmsw2.6-dev, python-wxversion, wx2.6-headers
<doko> Version: 2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2
<\sh> no wxpython ;)
<\sh> but it appeared in my LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet
<\sh> rc  wxpython2.4-1                         2.4.4ubuntu6                         wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wx
<\sh> rc  wxpython2.6-0                         2.6.1.1ubuntu3                       wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wx
<\sh> eeks
<\sh> should python-wxtools not replace wxpython?
<\sh> so wxpython is disappearing and python-wxtools is installed?
<\sh> doko: I think there  is a packaging bug..cause in wxwindows2.4 sourcepackage, there is also a package named python-wxtools without any version naming..but it somehow clashes with python-wxtools from wxwindows2.6
<doko> \sh: ohh yes, you are right. this needs to be updated from unstable. can you do that?
<\sh> and python-wxtools from 2.6 should remove wxpython2.6
<\sh> the same for 2.4
<\sh> doko: sync or merge?
<doko> \sh: merge
<\sh> doko: sure...will do this tonite
<\sh> doko: what about removing wxpython2.6 when updating to python-wxtools (from 2.6)?
<doko> \sh: not necessary
<doko> $ apt-cache show python-wxgtk2.6
<doko> Package: python-wxgtk2.6
<doko> Priority: optional
<doko> Section: universe/python
<doko> Installed-Size: 12664
<doko> Maintainer: Ron Lee <ron@debian.org>
<doko> Architecture: amd64
<doko> Source: wxwidgets2.6
<doko> Version: 2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2
<doko> Replaces: libwxgtk2.6-0-python, wxpython2.6-0
<StrikeForce> Can someone tell me how to make sure the permissions aren't 644 but 555?
<StrikeForce> would I have to use install instead of dh_install
<\sh> hmm dpkg -l gives me only installed packages or all packages?
<StrikeForce> anyone?
<siretart> doko: \sh while you are talking about wxpython, hoary had wxpython 2.5, we need an upgrade path to pyhton 2.6
<siretart> currently apt-get/dpkg fails because the 2.5 package contains some file which are also in the 2.6 package, I think a conflicts should do the trick
<siretart> but I did not test that yet.
<\sh> ivoks: *grrrrr*
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<StrikeForce> Can someone tell me why this doesn't work? /usr/bin/python -OO -c "import compileall; compileall.compile_dir('$(DESTDIR)/usr/share/rufus/')"
<bddebian> Anyone know much/anything about libxmerl-erlang?
<sivang> StrikeForce: what is it trying to do?
<sivang> usr/bin/python -OO -c "import compileall;
<sivang>                      compileall.compile_dir('$(DESTDIR)/usr/share/rufus/')"
<sivang> ah sorry
<StrikeForce> its trying to basically byte compile the .py program
<StrikeForce> its ok I've got it working just added $(DESTDIR)debian/rufus/usr/share/rufus
<sivang> StrikeForce: :-)
<StrikeForce> however I'm still getting lintian errors of it not being executible?
<StrikeForce> I thought dh_fixperms took care of that or it only does 644
<sivang> StrikeForce: maybe you need to call install/modify permission at location
<StrikeForce> as in at the very end?
<bddebian> Did someone already fix libhid or did it "magically" disappear from unmet-deps?
<slomo> bddebian: \sh fixed it
<bddebian> slomo: Of course. :-) THanks.  Did he fix muse too?
<slomo> bddebian: look at breezy-changes ;) i have no idea
<StrikeForce> sivang, how do you do that?
<sivang> StrikeForce: what, help you fix stuff without even saying anything? I guess I have a good Karma :-D
<StrikeForce> I need to find someway of making all the files +x in the /usr/share/rufus directory the postinst is the way to do it however every time I edit it it gets changed
<StrikeForce> any suggestions on where to look?
<\sh> bddebian: yeah...I fixed it ;)
<\sh> yesterday...fcking source
<\sh> and I think I fixed aqsis now ;)
<bddebian> \sh: And pdumpfs-rsync?
<\sh> pdumpfs-rsync_0.8.1-1ubuntu1_source.upload
<\sh> pdumpfs-rsync (0.8.1-1ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
<\sh> * debian/control: removed tightened deps for pdumpfs
<\sh> yes
<bddebian> \sh: Well I guess I have nothing to do then. ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: try to fix this :) http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/o/oo2c/1.5.9-4.1ubuntu1/oo2c_1.5.9-4.1ubuntu1_20050918-1824-powerpc-failed.gz
<bddebian> Can you ship me a PPC box? ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: ;)
<\sh> hmmm...is debian.org down or is it just me?
<\sh> slomo: can u give me a short update on http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15043
<bddebian> \sh: I can'
<bddebian> t get to packages.d.o
<slomo> bddebian: as long as you can get to packages.qa.d.o everything is alright :)
<\sh> hmm...seems that tiscali has some problems
<slomo> \sh: what do you want to know about that bug?
<\sh> slomo: fixed for breezy? can I close it?
<\sh> t least it works on breezy... I only read the changelog and the debian
<\sh> maintainer has written that he doesn't enable it because the debian version is
<\sh> too old ;)
<\sh> that are your words ;) and I don't know why it landed in my bugzilla account ;)
<slomo> \sh: yes, should be fixed on breezy... but it wasn't at the time i made the bugreport ;)
<slomo> just close it and ignore it :)
<\sh> k
<bddebian> Any thoughts from either of you two about the mozilla-locale-* crap?
<slomo> \sh: someone has synced it from debian it seems
<slomo> bddebian: what's the problem?
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> packages.debian.org leads me now to ms
<bddebian> slomo: They are all built for mozilla 1.6.1 and I don't even know if they are even valid anymore.
<slomo> bddebian: hmm... try to update them for our current version
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/uploads/screenshots/screenshot-20050919.png
<slomo> bddebian: 1.7.10 or something
<StrikeForce> Can someone help me?
<slomo> \sh: ?!
<StrikeForce> or I should say point me in the right direction?
<slomo> StrikeForce: just ask your question ;)
<slomo> \sh: i thought you were a kde guy? ;) but this p.d.o -> ms thing is scary...
<StrikeForce> how do I fix this  rufus: script-not-executable ?
<\sh> now my linux.blogweb.de is now ms
<\sh> argl
<StrikeForce> I need to make the files in the directoyr executable?
<\sh> HOLY SHIT
<StrikeForce> any suggestions
<\sh> argl...they played a funny joke with me...
<siretart> \sh: who?
<\sh> those foul asses of colleagues
<siretart> sounds funny, what did they do?
<\sh> siretart: at least one guy changed our FW settings and redirected me
<siretart> ;)
<siretart> oh
<Mez> :D
<Mez> shineh new laptop
<siretart> Mez: grats :)
<Mez> :::::D
<Mez> what do you mean gats? i had to pay for it :P
<slomo> waah... an alien with many eyes ;)
<Mez> s/gats/grats/
<bddebian> Heh
<Mez> sweet for swsusp :D
<Mez> it works - and works well too
<StrikeForce> siretart, can I bother you?
<siretart> StrikeForce: depends, what is it?
<StrikeForce> Can I ask you to revu?
<\sh> doko: regarding http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/wxwindows2.4 i have to fix it by hand
<siretart> StrikeForce: dont ask to ask, just ask ;)
<StrikeForce> siretart, can you revu something for me :)
<StrikeForce> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=616
<siretart> StrikeForce: mmh. not that good, I'm at work currently, what is it? i can start a revu-build, if that helps
<StrikeForce> well if you can't look at it now can you look at it later :)
<siretart> revu-build is running
<StrikeForce> thanks
<bddebian> mozilla is broken?
<siretart> StrikeForce: is the versioned dependency on python-wxgtk2.6 really necessary?
<siretart> StrikeForce: does it not work woth wxpython 2.4?
<StrikeForce> 2.5.3 min
<bddebian> Can anyone install mozilla?
<StrikeForce> siretart, 2.5.3 minimum unfortunately
<siretart> StrikeForce: ok. why the versioned dependency on (>= 2.6.1.1.1) then?
<StrikeForce> siretart, cause that was the lowest package above 2.5.3
<StrikeForce> siretart: should I just leave the dependancy off and just leave it as python-wxgtk2.6
<siretart> StrikeForce: depending on python-wxgtk2.6 should be okay then.
<StrikeForce> siretart: I will fix that now and re-upload it if thats ok :)
<siretart> it's better to avoid versioned dependency where possible. if you are unlucky, that can create severe upgrade problems
<siretart> StrikeForce: next question, (i'm just curious, your case seems to be covered by python policy):
<siretart> StrikeForce: why are you placing in /usr/share/rufus rather than /usr/lib/python2.4/rufus?
<StrikeForce> siretart: I'm not understanding your question?
<siretart> StrikeForce: did you read the python policy?
<StrikeForce> siretart, because /usr/bin/rufus basically creates specific directories in the home directory of the user then refers to rufus.py
<siretart> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<siretart> besides that, please fix these warnings and errors: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/rufus-0509191040/rufus_0.6.5-0ubuntu1_i386.lintian
<StrikeForce> thats my problem how do I go about fixing that?
<siretart> wait
<StrikeForce> if the script in the /usr/bin/rufus puts the command to python -OO -c /usr/share/rufus.py?
<siretart> look up the lintian documentation about these errors. sorry, i'm rather busy now at work :(
<StrikeForce> ok :(
<bddebian> IS MOZILLA BROKEN?
<slomo> bddebian: why?
<bddebian> slomo: I'm working on the mozilla-locales stuff but apt-get install mozilla pukes
<slomo> bddebian: paste it ;)
<slomo> bddebian: mozilla-dev worked yesterday
<bddebian> slomo: It's just a bunch of missing depends.  Can you install it?
<slomo> yes
<slomo> mozilla and mozilla-dev are installable here
<bddebian> And you get 2:1.7.11... ?
<ogra> uuuh, a epoch ?
<slomo> bddebian: Version: 2:1.7.11-0ubuntu3
<bddebian> slomo: Hmm, weird and apt-get -f fixed it, sorry and thanks.
<bddebian> I assume the mozilla-locale-* stuff should match the version of mozilla?
<slomo> bddebian: should be the best
<bddebian> slomo: Any idea how detrimental it is to change the version number?
<slomo> bddebian: what do you mean?
<\sh> re
<bddebian> slomo: Well current version of mozilla-locale-zh-cn is 1.6.0-xxx for mozilla 1.6.x.  I would think it would make sense that if I update it to make it version 1.7.x to coincide with mozilla 1.7.11xxx.  But am I going to get in trouble again? ;-)
<bddebian> wb \sh
<slomo> bddebian: no you won't get into trouble for that as it fixes problems... just do it :)
<bddebian> slomo: Any idea how I test these ? :-)
<slomo> bddebian: yes... install them, choose them in mozilla and look for weird words and letters ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<\sh> doko: do u see the problem now?
<doko> \sh: no, apt-get install python-wxtools works
<\sh> for 2.6 right?
<\sh> but what about python-wxtools for 2.4
<doko> there is none in the archive
<\sh> because it has the same name as in the 2.6 package
<\sh> we had wxpython2.4 and wxpython (2.6) package before and python-wxtools replaces it (in 2.4 and 2.6)
<\sh> grmpf...somehow I need the possibilty to pxe boot this shiddy toshiba recovery cd
<doko> sure, thats correct
<\sh> doko: so we should give python-wxtools from wxwindows2.4 sourcepackage a version numbering scheme like python-wxtools2.4
<doko> no
<\sh> why not?
<doko> why do you need it?
<\sh> grmpf..it's not even packaged when I see it right
<\sh> but why is it popping up in my unmet deps?
<doko> which package does it reference? then fix that package.
<\sh> Package wxpython2.4-1 version 2.4.4ubuntu6 has an unmet dep: Depends: libwxgtk2.4-1-python (= 2.4.4ubuntu6)
<\sh> I don't know why this old version is still in the cache
<doko> remove them both
<\sh> i would if I could
<\sh> but apt-get remove wxpython2.4-1 tells me..not installed...wth
<\sh> grmpd
<\sh> now I killed my whole windows install because I was deleted partions...*gnarf*
<bddebian> Bah, who needs Windows anyway? ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: for laptop testing
<ivoks> any1?
<bddebian> Yo
<ivoks> there is new qdvdauthor
<ivoks> but it's not in debian
<bddebian> Sounds like breezy+1 ;-)
<ivoks> can we just import it from marillat?
<ivoks> the thing is... this one in breezy is... broken
<ivoks> acctually there is no qdvdauthor
<ivoks> only /usr/share/doc :)
<bddebian> Aye.  I would think so but I'm probably the WRONG person to ask ;-)
* bddebian wants to bring in new sylpheed too
<ivoks> \sh would know it
<ivoks> \sh: what to do? ://
<\sh> grmpfs
<\sh> throw away sky2 drivers first
<\sh> what?
<\sh> where?
<\sh> and when?
<ivoks> now, here i qdvdauthor
<ivoks> this on in breezy is usless (no binary)
<ivoks> there is no qdvdauthor in debian, at all
<ivoks> but this one we imported form marillat
<ivoks> should i just import new version?
<ivoks> (and test it)
<\sh> dholbach is apt-get.org king ,)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> maybe i'll just patch 0.0.9 to build with gcc4
<\sh> dholbach: ping
<\sh> dholbach: resync from marillat? qdvauthor?
<dholbach> \sh: does it make the world a better place?
<ivoks> no, but it makes it usable
<\sh> dholbach: I really don
<\sh> 't know
<dholbach> and it's still a multiverse item?
<\sh> grmpf...need to sync again with uk keyboard
* dholbach has no idea
<ivoks> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2186
<ivoks> we have that app in "Add program"
<ivoks> it creates menu entry
<ivoks> but has no exec
<dholbach> so it needs a fixed .desktop entry?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> it needs binary
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> hehe
<dholbach> /usr/bin/qslideshow ?
<ivoks> it has .desktop, it has .png
<ivoks> that's not it
<dholbach> oh ok
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> and the new one from marillat has it?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> it's fixed for gcc4
<dholbach> oh cool
<dholbach> well then...
<dholbach> go ahead
<ivoks> ok
* ivoks has to caureful after fsck up with j2se
<ivoks> so, better to ask 5x than do stopid move 1x
<ogra> ivoks, be careful with j2se and fix it ;)
<ivoks> should i fix it?
<ivoks> i tought doko said he has new packages...
<ogra> yes, of j2se, without dep on libxp
<ivoks> but introducing new package isn't an option?
<ogra> so the dep is still missing and requires a metapackage
<ogra> its the only solution
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i'll to it this evening
<ivoks> s/to/do
<ivoks> one more q...
<ivoks> i didn't do any change to qdvdauthor
<ivoks> so, marillat is maintainer..
<ogra> he should always be maintainer if you use his packjages
<ivoks> right...
<ivoks> but i can't upload package with his sign
<ogra> re-sign it
<ogra> with debsign
<ivoks> ok
<_tonio> hello guys
<dholbach> hi _tonio :)
<_tonio> dholbach: ah you're talking there too ? I never saw you here ;)
<_tonio> I mean "never saw you talking" ;)
<_tonio> dholbach: what do you think of overriding the shlib simlink error ? Is it okay for you or not ?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I never saw talking daniel too... only read his words!
<crimsun> (which daniel? ;-)
<thesaltydog> daniel dholbach
<crimsun> (there are quite a few daniels involved in ubuntu ;-)
<thesaltydog> I know..
* _tonio takes hot pizza, opens a beer, and lights a cigarette (moment of pure pleasure !!)
<thesaltydog>  Last week I have seen Elton John in Rome, singing "Daniel my love..." :-)
<\sh> nice song btw
<\sh> i have it in my elton john mp3 collection ;)
<dholbach> haha :)
<dholbach> _tonio: i'll have a lasagna soon too
<thesaltydog> dholbach, who speaks about lasagna? Someone needs lessons? Cheap!
<dholbach> lessons?
<dholbach> quoi?
<thesaltydog> how to cook and prepare lasagna with meat souce.
<thesaltydog> lasagna is a typical italian dish
<dholbach> i was well aware of that :)
<_tonio> lasagna, nice plate too ;) My grandma makes the best lasagnas in the world ;)
<dholbach> and the readers of desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com are well aware of the fact, that i deserve one :)
<\sh> h4h4
<\sh> aeh
<\sh> hehe
<thesaltydog> if someone of you ever comes in Rome, make me a ping..
* dholbach will stay in Berlin now for a while :)
<thesaltydog> I regret..
<\sh> when I have the permission to throw a cheap pizza towards the papa ratzi ;)
<\sh> I tried it during the world youth day..but i had to work :(
<thesaltydog> he is very far away from your hand. He is always up in his window... closer to God!
<\sh> hahaha...if ratzi is closer to god then me....then my name is jesus :)
<\sh> anyways.totally ot
<thesaltydog> sorry for the break. It's my fault..
<\sh> it's ok don't worry
<\sh> fighting with the laptop here
<\sh> guys..give me a hint on a bluetooth application where i can sync my nokia phone?
<dholbach> multisync?
<dholbach> there was also some gammu/wammu crack
<dholbach> but i didn't get around to package it yet
<\sh> dholbach: u didn't compile gnome-phone-manager with bluetooth support?
<dholbach> hm?
<thesaltydog> \sh, I synched my nokia with cable!!
<dholbach> i sent SMS with it
<\sh> thesaltydog: this works...i know...but i have to test bluetooth on this laptop
<\sh> libgnomebt0 is bluetooth right?
<dholbach> yep
<thesaltydog> \sh, I am waiting for my BlueTooth usb key. Should arrive tomorrow. I'll let you now then.
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> dholbach: is there any app where i can see if bluetooth is enabled or not?
<dholbach> dmesg? grep -E 'bin\/' /var/lib/dpkg/info/bluez-utils.list
<thesaltydog> a bunch of!
<\sh> `2hmmm..
<\sh> i can see the laptop as audio device on the phone
<\sh> but...
<\sh> what now...gnome-phone-manager tells me no connection
<\sh> how can i set the device?
<dholbach> is there anything in dmesg?
<dholbach> some of the bluez-utils running?
<dholbach> any attempted pairing?
<dholbach> what does  sdptool browse  say?
<thesaltydog> have you installed also gnome-bluetooth?
<\sh> well...hcitools gives me the phone
<\sh> hcitools scan
<thesaltydog> g'night all. \sh tomorrow I will give bluetooth a try on my lap. Maybe we can share experiences...Bye!
<\sh> dholbach: a lot:)
<\sh> dholbach: http://rafb.net/paste/results/3IUUOv51.html
<\sh> grmpf
<_tonio> little question
<_tonio> If I need to package 2 apps, on depending on the other, How can I make for the pbuilder to build the second if it is not already uploaded?
<bddebian> _tonio: You could do it in a pbuilder login and dpkg -i the deb from the first package
<bddebian> I don't know if that's the "best" solution
<ivoks> zblj...
<_tonio> bddebian: yes but for revue ?
<_tonio> how will it work if the first package isn't already uploaded ?
<_tonio> the only solution is to upload the first
<_tonio> see with motus to get it validated and upload fast, and then upload the second isn't it?
<_tonio> that's the only logic way I can see ;)
<bddebian> ivoks: zblj??
<_tonio> in fact I wanna add k9copy, a clone for dvdshrink that appretly works great, but that requires a very little binary called vamps
<ivoks> bddebian: yeah :) that's how i feel... zblj :)
<bddebian> Oh, hehe
<ivoks> katie@jackass refuses my qdvdauthor
<bddebian> :-(
<bddebian> What's the reason?
<ivoks> without any reason
<ivoks> i don't get mail at all
<_tonio> or maybe because it is a ridiculous binary I can add it directly in the sources of k9copy,but if I do that, I'm gonna get killed by Daniel ^^
<\sh> grmpf.
<\sh> i need help
<ivoks> enough for today
<bddebian> \sh: Whats up?
<_tonio> \sh: what's the problem ?
<ivoks> yeah, \sh, what's your problem? :)
<ajmitch> morning all
<\sh> i can't get gnome-phone-manager running
<ivoks> hi ajmitch
* ivoks has exam in 10 hours... time to go to bed
<ajmitch> bye ivoks
<ivoks> bye all
* ajmitch wonders why his other breezy box is not responding :)
<ajmitch> well, it responds to pings, but ssh doesn't go
<ivoks> ajmitch: it's breezed :)
<ivoks> hm...
<_tonio> \sh: use KDE (i'm ->[] ) ^
<ivoks> that happend to me, but on sarge
<ivoks> few times
<ajmitch> ivoks: it's been running for about 5 months without reboot, on old hardware :)
<ajmitch> still using a pre-release hoary kernel, iirc ;)
<ivoks> ajmitch: yeah, mine too
<\sh> _tonio: laptop testing
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> ports are open
<_tonio> like me, I just bought one ;) i'm trying with breezy right now ;)
<ajmitch> could just be ssh that's dead
<ivoks> ajmitch: mine ssh started to work, after few minutes
<ajmitch> ah, apache is working
<ivoks> ajmitch: find a hole, and restart ssh :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ivoks> you see
<ajmitch> or I could find a spare monitor for it
<ivoks> back doors are good thing :)
<ajmitch> and restart ssh via the console :)
<ivoks> ah... BED!
<ivoks> bye
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello bddebian sir
<bddebian> sir? :-)
<ajmitch> well, yeah
<siretart> n'evening, folks
* ajmitch runs off to work
<siretart> bye ajmitch
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> I see my damn mobile..but can
<\sh> 't connect to it
<ogra> ARRGH
<ogra> IVOKS !
<siretart> why the heck is the mplayer 'Waiting for the XMMS plugin to start playback'?!
<ogra> hmm, he obviously misunderstood what i said about java
<siretart> ogra: what did he do?
<ajmitch>  * Undo changes in ubuntu2 and ubuntu1
<ogra> he undid his changes to the java packages...
<ogra> doko wrote a mail to us that he'd upload a new package to blackdown to get it sanced and we'd need a j2se-mozilla package or something like that to make sure libxp gets installed along...
<ogra> i asked him to make that package...
<ogra> he reverted his changes, grumblfjx...
<ogra> s/sanced/synced
<vrln> is universe open to package requests? if yes, is there a forum where I could set up a petition or something similar :)
<vrln> the package (well, packages) I'd be talking about would be the development version of E17
<vrln> it currently lacks Ubuntu-native .debs
<dholbach> vrln: wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates is for that
<dholbach> is E17 there yet?
<vrln> (yes, it's not "stable", but it is used by a lot of people already - it could be added as an unsupported build)
<dholbach> last time i heard, it was fairly immature
<vrln> it's used daily by a lot of people these days
<vrln> plenty of talk about it on all forums
<vrln> I've used it as the only wm for a year already
<ogra> i also doubt its marturity, but if someone wants to make packages
<ogra> ...
<vrln> ok, it wasn't that mature 6 months ago, but these days it mostly is
<vrln> I maintain its user guide on get-e.org
<dholbach> yeah, vrln add it to the list and if you like, give somebody a hand and for a E17 team :)
<ogra> vrln, learn packaging or find someone who's interested in doing it...
<vrln> it is more mature these days - themers are active and so on
<vrln> http://get-e.org/User_Guide/English/_pages/print.html
<vrln> for example
<ogra> vrln, no need to convince us..
<vrln> there is no gui control-panel yet, but almost all basic functionality is in
<vrln> ok :)
<ogra> (i wont switch, but i'm not opposed to have a package)
<vrln> it's around ~10 packages alltogether
<vrln> as it requires the enlightenment foundation libraries as well
<vrln> perhaps I should try to learn packaging
<vrln> oh and I didn't intend that in the way of "converting" anyone - just to prove the point that it isn't in "very early development" anymore these days
<dholbach> yeah form a team around it :)
<vrln> well, that is quite a relative term, but it is not "unusable already"
<ogra> vrln, as long as it dont breaks anything we already have in, it can enter universe... but note that we are fairly late in the release cycle already... if it braks anything we cant accept it... we cant introduce new bugs 3 weeks before release
<vrln> already = anymore*
<vrln> ogra: it shouldn't touch anything as far as I know - the only thing that could be common with other packages, is imlib2
<vrln> but I don't think imlib2 is even packaged right now?
<vrln> at least apt-cache show imlib2 doesn't seem to find anything
<vrln> oops... sorry
<vrln> nevermind, actually it is packaged :)
<ogra>  pool/main/i/imlib2/libimlib2_1.2.0-2.2ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<vrln> I'm not sure if that imlib2 version is compatible with the current E17 version though
<vrln> but I guess I could find out
<vrln> it seems to be an optional package though, so an alternative imlib2 could be called imlib2-cvs or something similar
<vrln> hm... looks like E17 isn't on the list right now
<ogra> vrln, if anything in main needs to get upgraded for e17 you can forget about it, main is frozen and you need a very urgent reason to change things there
<vrln> ogra: not necessarily upgraded, the package could just depend on a imlib2-cvs, and leave the imlib2 be
<ogra> our release manager wont accept changes for universe packages in main
<vrln> it could also be that the imlib2 in main is fully ok
<vrln> I'm not sure
<vrln> I need to ask someone who knows more about it
<ogra> find that out, also the other dependencys needed...
<vrln> all other dependencies for compiling EFL/E17 are already in Ubuntu, I just added the dependency list to get-e yesturday
<ogra> we'll release oct 13th until then only bugfixes are allowed to enter main...
<vrln> but I'm not 100% positive about it yet
<vrln> ogra: by the way, the freetype2 version in main has a problem with certain E17 themes
<vrln> it's a freetype2 problem with all versions under 2.1.8
<vrln> but it's just with 2 themes that have minimal window borders
<ogra> its a e17 problem
<vrln> no, it's a freetype related bug as far as I know, but it's very rare
<ogra> it seems not to affect anything else
<vrln> only happens under certain conditions (yes, apparently only e17 triggers it)
<vrln> but that's not really a huge deal, just thought I'd tell - it's just two custom themes, and they are actually built in a way themes shouldn't be built (the window border shouldn't be like that)
<vrln> ogra: the problem with EFL/E17 would be, as it's still under development, is that the packages would need to be updated every 2 weeks or so
<ogra> yup... but its no good reason for requesting a freetype upgrade :)
<ogra> vrln, that wont happen
<vrln> ogra: universe is "frozen" too after release?
<dholbach> good night
<dholbach> vrln: yes
<vrln> ah
<ogra> we wont upgrade packages for breezy once its released
<siretart> good night, dholbach
<vrln> then it's more suited for backports I guess?
<siretart> vrln: we have dapper for this
<ajmitch> so any e17 package you get in will be there for 6 months
<\sh> brb
<ogra> so it would only be a snapshot package...
<vrln> there's a request concerning getting E17 debs to backports (for breezy) on the forums, but a single snapshot isn't really worth it
<ogra> backports just backport what is in the next version, so it would be perfect for backports, yes
<vrln> except, well, it would be a nice graphics demo for some people I guess
<vrln> but I don't know if that's important enough for all the work it'd need
<vrln> ok, I'll bug them then :)
<ogra> if you get a e17 package into breezy, it will actually be easier for the backports team
<vrln> this new universe system is pretty interesting by the way, I just switched back to ubuntu this weekend (last time I used it, was the first release - back then universe was just debians contrib that isn't maintained at all)
<ogra> since backports are automatically built from the repository
<vrln> but if the packages would need to upgraded every 2 or 3 weeks at least, then that wouldn't help much I guess?
<ogra> vrln, it would...
<vrln> that said, installing E17 to /opt via various scripts is no problem at all under Breezy, all the depencencies are already in
<vrln> but an E17 package would provide at least an eyecandy toy for people
<ogra> you upgrade them in dapper and the backports team triggers a automated build for breezy
<vrln> especially if it'd be nicely integrated, ie, add itself to GDM and so on
<\sh> back
<ogra> as i said, backports are done automated now, so if you have it in dapper, it will be beackportable to breezy....
<vrln> hm, interesting
<vrln> I'll try to find out about the imlib2 problem
<ogra> so you could update the dapper package every two weeks and ask for a backport
<vrln> the problem is though, I'm not really experienced enough to package anything (I'm not a comp-sci guy at all actually, even if I'm an E contributor - not a coding one though)
<vrln> there are some third party source debs (and debs), but I'm not familiar with them, ie, if the quality and everything is good or not
<siretart> vrln: do you already asked the debian maintainer of updating e17?
<siretart> argl. my english.. did you alread ask
<vrln> siretart: there is no debian maintainer for e17
<vrln> it's not packaged at all right now
<vrln> since it's still in development - but needless to say, it is fairly popular already, even if it's not stable
<siretart> vrln: but for enlightment, there has to be one
<vrln> ah yes, that is packaged
<siretart> vrln: perhaps he is also interested in packaging e17
<vrln> but I highly doubt Debian would be interested in packaging E17 before it goes stabla
<vrln> stable*
<ogra> sure... for experimental at least
<vrln> well, no distro is, since they'd have to support it then - but as an unsupported community maintained backport it would be perfect
<siretart> vrln: you 'just' would have to find an interested debian developer, you don't have to convince the whole debian project ;)
<vrln> hm...
<vrln> well, community supported too I guess
<siretart> well, debian (as well as ubuntu/universe) is a community project ;)
<vrln> there are a few distros that already package E17, but it's provided "as is", without any support (which is perfectly fine, it is "try it at your own risk" -stuff in the end, at this point)
<vrln> heh, yes, but you know what I mean :)
<ajmitch> debian maintainers could do that as wel; :)
<ogra> vrln, just look if you find a packager for it... we can include it then... if it wont enter breezy anymore we can always backport it
<ogra> probably there is even a package on apt-get.org i dont know how far dholbach got with it yet
<ajmitch> not far, he said
<vrln> there probably won't be an official E17 release for a long time, so it'd be unsupported stuff of course (that said, I personally think E17 is usable already - not compared to gnome and co, but to flux etc)
<ajmitch> he was hoping to get started on it today
<vrln> ogra: hm... well, I know one guy who has provided the E community .debs for Debian Sid for a long time already
<ogra> i know there was one for hoary, but it was totally unusable and hadnt even a copyright note
<vrln> he's actually responsible for Debian packaging in the E team, perhaps I could ask him
<vrln> if he'd be interested - his .debs are for Sid only right now, last time I checked they didn't work correctly in Ubuntu due to dependency problems
<ogra> vrln, thats mostly just a matter of compiling
<ogra> we need source packages...
<vrln> ogra: he has source packages
<ogra> fine :)
<vrln> http://www.soulmachine.net/wiki/index.php?title=Enlightenment_on_Debian_unstable
<ogra> hmm, it uses imlib 1.2.1, we have 1.2.0
<vrln> someone I asked (not an e dev though) claimed that e works with older imlib2's too
<vrln> and said he's sure about it, but I can't promise if he's right or not
<ogra> vrln, sorry but these packagesare all crap...
<ogra> they are all native packages
<ogra> (native == the packaging isnt separated from the source)
<vrln> yes, to debian unstable
<vrln> ah
<ogra> nope
<vrln> hm
<vrln> as you can see I'm not very familiar with this stuff :)
<ogra> they also wont get accepted in debian this way i guess
<ajmitch> most people wouldn't know the difference, sadly
<ogra> ajmitch, does debian accept them ?
<vrln> I'd love to learn packaging, but right now I'm too swamped @ uni - just don't have the time (maintaining the e17 users docs already takes a lot of time), at least not until christmas or so
<ogra> phew, e17 and e17-data are 70MB in total ... and that in a native package... *sigh*
<vrln> ogra: yes :)
<vrln> the enlightenment foundation libraries take a lot of space, and then E17 itself is also at least 25 mb
<ogra> vrln, if i change a line in a native package, i have to upload the whole package... (50MB in case of the e17 package) if i change a line in a package thats packaged correctly i upload the one line and a changelog entry
<vrln> then there's the additional module package and the e utility package - that's just the core
<vrln> ogra: oh, not really - they are split up
<vrln> it's ~50 mb alltogether
<vrln> around 12 packages
<vrln> apps/e is the only "behemoth"
<ajmitch> ogra: depends what maintainers can slip past the ftpmaster - generally native packages need to be native for a reason
<ogra> vrln, enlightenment_0.16.9..> 15-Sep-2005 22:57  50.3M
<ogra> thats what firefox shows me...
<ajmitch> vrln: even so, simple packaging changes shouldn't require the whole lot to be uploaded
<vrln> ogra: hm, interesting, I wonder if E has grown that much
<vrln> that's not including the EFL at all
<ogra> vrln, if i would fix a bug in that package, lets say i add a missing comma, i'd have to upload the whole 50MB
<ajmitch> ogra: a lot of pain on your dsl? :)
<vrln> ogra: oops, sorry - the 25 mb was around a year ago it seems
<ogra> instead of the line with the comma and a line describing it in the changelog... which is less then 100k
<vrln> :)
<vrln> E17 itself is, indeed, 79 MB as source
<vrln> but the other packages are small
<vrln> some spam (sorry):
<vrln>  1. e17/libs/eet
<vrln> 2. e17/libs/edb
<vrln> 3. e17/libs/evas
<vrln> 4. e17/libs/ecore
<vrln> 5. e17/libs/embryo
<vrln> 6. e17/libs/imlib2
<vrln> 7. e17/libs/edje
<vrln> 8. e17/libs/epeg
<vrln> 9. e17/libs/epsilon
<vrln> 10. e17/libs/esmart
<vrln> 11. e17/libs/emotion (note that you'll need to have xine-lib installed as emotion uses it)
<vrln> 12. e17/libs/engrave (this is currently needed for e_utils only)
<vrln> 13. e17/libs/ewl (also needed for e_utils)
<vrln> 14. e17/libs/etox (this is only needed if you want to install eRSS, otherwise you can ignore etox)
<vrln> those are the EFL packages, I don't think any of them is over 5 mb
<siretart> vrln: please use a pastebot for this
<ogra> indeed, but we cant accept native packages, these packages would have to be repackaged to include them
<vrln> then e_utils and e_modules (these are practically required), are also around 5 mb or something similar
<vrln> ... good point, sorry again :)
<ajmitch> we may be just a few people, but we still want quality packaging :)
* bddebian hides
<siretart> vrln: I think you should try to find an DD (debian developer) willing to spend some time to do some packaging work
<siretart> vrln: if e17 gets into debian, we can easily sync it
<dsas> quick questions guys: Is there going to be some big focus for MOTU during the dapper development? I.E. there was the whole cxx transition this time around...
<ogra> hopefully not :)
<ajmitch> dsas: getting as many packages as we can installable & working :)
<siretart> dsas: well, there are always some transitions, bitter or smaller ones, all the times
<dsas> so the assimilation of more of apt-get.org plus polishing other things then?
<ogra> it'd be nice if we could do some actual packaging work at dapper time instead of transitioning hundrets of packages
<ajmitch> dsas: and if we get everything working nicely, we can focus more on new packages :)
<vrln> ogra: so yes, I can understand that packaging E is really a pain :)
<siretart> dsas: there is always a lot of work to do: reviewing new stuff (like e17 *g*), or fixing malone bugs just as example
<ajmitch> ogra: some of us have to spend some time on actual packaging work  :)
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, but i'd like "less work and more fun" for dapper...
<tseng> ogra: that would be great.
<ogra> transitions are just stupid work
<vrln> not to mention it would practically need to be updated every 2-3 weeks - well, this is relative though, some people would like it as a graphics demo too, but those who actually use it all the time would not use an outdated version as it's developed at a speedy rate :)
<ajmitch> yes
<ogra> they shoudl be automated ...
* ajmitch has managed to do _some_ automation of transitions
<ajmitch> for dapper I'll try & automate it some more if it's needed
<ogra> vrln, as i said before, package it in dapper and have a backport every two weeks
<vrln> by the time the next ubuntu is out though (the one after breezy), with some luck, there might even be a beta e17 release (or not) :)
<siretart> ajmitch: I was also thinking about some automations. are you at UBZ?
<dsas> hmm ok, I've been meaning to attempt packaging for a while, but things keep getting in the way, should have more free time soon though :)
<ajmitch> siretart: maybe
<vrln> ogra: yeah, that would sound good
<ajmitch> siretart: I've already got some existing scripts for this
<vrln> ogra: e17 compiles under GCC4
<vrln> so do all the EFL
<siretart> ajmitch: perhaps we can integrate them into the revu2 interface?
<ajmitch> vrln: as they should
<vrln> ajmitch: mplayer doesn't :)
<ajmitch> siretart: we could, if I cleaned them up :)
<ogra> siretart, are *you* at UBZ ?
<siretart> ajmitch: :)
<siretart> ogra: yes! :)
<ogra> YAY
<ajmitch> siretart: you got sponsored?
<ogra> i didnt know that
* ajmitch neither :)
<siretart> ajmitch: yes, my request was accepted! /me is a happy boy :)
<\sh> siretart and I will fly together :)
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> not surprising though
<ogra> cool
* bddebian REALLY wants to go :'-(
<ogra> sad that i'm flying on the 26th already
* ajmitch is still unsure if he can spend all that money to get to UBZ & sit & work for a week
<ajmitch> but I have to decide real soon now :)
<tseng> ajmitch: seriously, dont do it
<ogra> ajmitch, come on its fun, paying for sitting in hotel conference rooms 12h a day get less sleep and the like :)
<vrln> ogra: one other thing that I personally would like to see is a "desktop-kernel" - just the standard kernel with the ck patch
<vrln> it really does wonders for audio skipping etc
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah real fun.. ;)
<tseng> ogra: will you go to gnome summit in boston?
<vrln> (just a random idea - didn't mean that I'm asking for it)
<ogra> tseng, when ?
<vrln> just that I think it would be a good idea :)
<tseng> ogra: October 5th iirc
<ajmitch> tseng: I'm not feeling like that much of an ubuntu fanboy at the moment
<ogra> tseng, hmm
<tseng> bddebian: dude
<chillywilly> ajmitch: :-o
<tseng> ogra: jeff is going
<dsas> vrln: there's a project on the ubuntu-forums to get an audio meta-package thing going iirc
<ajmitch> chillywilly: yes?
<ogra> tseng, thats the time i'll have to fix the last remaining edubuntu bugs i guess, i wont even sleep during that week :)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: no?
<vrln> dsas: ah, sounds cool - sound skips with the default ubuntu kernel here under heavy load - with ck (preempt + CFQ io sched/staircase cpu sched), the difference is really noticeable
<ajmitch> tseng: so you're definitely not going to be at UBZ?
<bddebian> tseng: What did I do now?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you will be a ubuntu fanboy until the end of your days....these are not the packages you are looking for....
<tseng> ajmitch: not unless someone pops up with a ticket
<ajmitch> well there goes all my reasons for going..
<ajmitch> :)
<tseng> yeah dude
<ajmitch> chillywilly: whatever
<vrln> that said, the ubuntu bootup scripts rock - first distro I've seen that doesn't complain if you compile a non-modular kernel
<chillywilly> ajmitch: relax man
<vrln> it seems to notice it and doesn't look (and complain) about the modules
<ogra> vrln, there were several requests to form a audio team that would care for things like realtime kernels with audio optimization... but it somehow never left the ground
<chillywilly> holy crap I am hungry
<chillywilly> haven't eaten anything all day
<siretart> ogra: who was involved in that team?
<ogra> siretart, dig -devel, there were several people who wanted to start such a team
<ajmitch> tseng: so I guess noone will be pushing selinux at UBZ :)
<ajmitch> I'd still like to see that in dapper, since it's got that 5 year server support going on
<ajmitch> not too many things to patch from debian now
<ogra> ajmitch, if in doubt we can still ask the master of the ubuntu hardened team...
* ajmitch coughs
<ogra> or was he king of debian hardened ?
<ajmitch> yeah.
<ogra> heh
<vrln> ogra: yeah, well, the people who need it usually can patch it themselves - but yup, it would be a nice addition still
<ajmitch> ogra: same thing :)
<vrln> and compiling is always pretty boring (I just left gentoo after using it for a year)
<vrln> :)
<tseng> ajmitch: well
<tseng> ajmitch: manoj is all over it, we'll just sync
<ajmitch> yeah
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-25
<vrln> ogra: If you haven't followed E devel lately, it looks like this these days: http://get-e.org/Screenshots/User_Submitted/_images/e7_default.png (no, I'm not trying to convert you at all)
<ajmitch> I haven't seen much from manoj though
<tseng> ogra: i cant work with him.
<ajmitch> and it requires a lot more than just syncing
<tseng> does it?
<ajmitch> especially with things like initramfs
<tseng> hm
<tseng> damn
<tseng> i almost picked up the oreilly seliunx book this weekend
<ajmitch> but I can work with jbailey with that
<ajmitch> I talked with him about it before initramfs went into breezy
<dsas> I presume the rules for Ubuntu packages regarding licenses are the same as Debians?
<ajmitch> dsas: yep
<dsas> ajmitch: ok, no ksh93 yet then :(
<ajmitch> why is that?
<ajmitch> what license does it have?
<ajmitch> we still have multiverse for distributable but non-free
<ajmitch> like debian has non-free
<dsas> common public  license - it has some clause about patents which makes it non gpl compatible I think
<ajmitch> oh
<tseng> it doesnt have to be gpl
<ajmitch> gpl compatibility doesn't restrict something
<ajmitch> the DFSG never has that as a restriction
<dsas> ahh ok...
<ajmitch> we can review it anyway
<tseng> damn i need to buy tickets today
<tseng> this week
<vrln> by the way, if you don't mind an off topic question: I reported http://tolu.edu.hel.fi/~vrln/script.png as an initscript bug - that is a bug right?
<dsas> well I don't think canonical would like to take on the clause here: http://hashphp.org/pastebin.php?pid=4900 but who knows...
<ajmitch> ok, ksh93 is not a free softwrare license..
<bddebian> tseng: Bah, it's only an 8 hour drive or so :)
<vrln> ie, to me it looks like the echo part of the initscript prints the [ok]  too early
<tseng> bddebian: boston.
<vrln> bad geometry
<ogra> dsas, if the license allows redistribution we can get it in, eithe in universe (dfsg) or multiverse (non free but distributable)
<bddebian> tseng: Oh
<tseng> bddebian: http://live.gnome.org/Boston2004
<tseng> bddebian: SEE YOU THERE
<ajmitch> "License of ksh93
<ajmitch> The license of ksh93 is not a free software license. One reason for this is that it requires that all changes be sent to the developer. There may be other problems with the license as well that would make it non-free. "
<ajmitch> ogra: multiverse only with that
<ogra> ajmitch, if there is a sentence in it that allows distribution of the software its ready for multiverse
<ogra> see squeak, debian doesnt ship it... we do
<tseng> is it just me
<tseng> or are those dates all off
<ogra> (err, we dont *ship* it but make it available)
<ajmitch> ogra: I know that
<dsas> ajmitch: I can't see anything that says that in the license (CPL 1.0) but i'm not a lawyer..
<bddebian> Well I'm heading home.  See ya in a few gents.
<ajmitch> dsas: that may have been in an older license
<ajmitch> dsas: probably something to worry about for dapper
<dsas> ajmitch: ok, noted.
<dsas> would a shell likely be a hard project for a first packaging effort?
<ajmitch> possibly
<ajmitch> as you'd want to integrate with the system, sprinkling files in /etc
<dsas> hmm ok, I'll scrap that idea then..
<ogra> dsas, pick something small but useful ...
* ogra started with gcursor
<ogra> and dholbach with timer-applet ...
<ogra> dsas, look at these to get a impression what is easy for a start
<dsas> ogra: ok thanks, I'll take a look around for something small and interesting.
<dsas> is it very often you have to write patches for programs? or otherwise customise them?, My C coding is far from hot, I can muddle through most other things.
<ogra> mostly its finding patches from others and merge them, the amount of C knowledge you need isnt big...
* ajmitch started with something in debian
<ajmitch> but since then I haven't really gone far :)
<\sh> ok...can somebody confirm that hcid is segfaulting?
<dsas> ok, i'm off for the night, thanks for answering my questions tonight guys :)
* ajmitch wishes #u-laptop didn't have its own hostinggeek equivalent
<tseng> yeah
<\sh> hehe
<tseng> i keep loosing channels
<\sh> yes
<tseng> ajmitch: the worst was
<tseng> that guy owned the channel for a while
<tseng> first join
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> I think he still owns it
<ajmitch> at least he acts like he does
* ajmitch also loses channels at times
<ajmitch> so I have to put them in my autojoin list I think
<tseng> yeah i never get around to that
<ajmitch> sounds like all is not well with ubuntu forums
<Nafallo> gaah! oga just joined #ubuntu.se :-P
<ajmitch> ?
<Nafallo> I'll better get to bed or something ;-)
<Nafallo> ogre, ogra and oga is one to many ;-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: morning btw :-P
<ajmitch> hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> ajmitch: my Internet haven't crashed yet :-(
<ajmitch> you own the internet? ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I own my Internet ;-)
<ajmitch> you have your own one?
* Nafallo stops highlighting now :-)
<Nafallo> yepp, my own personal Internet :-)
<Nafallo> or... I could have meant my connection to the public one ;-)
<Nafallo> I should install squid, give it 13GB cache and name it "MY INTERNET" :-)
<ajmitch> haha
<Nafallo> I'm gonna call my ISP tomorrow ;-)
<Nafallo> I'm not going to tell them the _real_ reason I'm calling though :-P
<Nafallo> I have _large_ torrents in my queue, but they will have to boost my connection before I start them :-P.
<ajmitch> :P
<\sh> ok..guys..good night :) cu later this day
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> maybe I should sleep
* Nafallo yawns
* ajmitch should do more work
* Nafallo should do more work when he's awake
<Nafallo> I'm just not sure if there is much left? :-P
<ajmitch> much of what?
<ajmitch> there's still a lot of work to be done on universe
<Nafallo> transitions :-)
<Nafallo> I tried to look a bit yesterday but I only found _big_ downloads with _lots_ of errors ;-)
* Nafallo found a dude working as a programmer in #ubuntu.se today ;-)
<Nafallo> I gave him that MOTUWannabeTips-thing :-)
<Nafallo> koke: hi! are you planning to package gnome-torrent for breezy? :-)
<koke> Nafallo, sure, but I want to make it work better first :)
<koke> In fact, it has a working debian/ directory
<Nafallo> koke: what are you waiting for then? dput revu :-)
<koke> I want to put some more features before :)
<koke> but...
<koke> why not? :D
<Nafallo> it's better to have something than nothing in breezy ;-)
<Nafallo> atleast if it works atm :-P
<koke> :D
<koke> well, maybe too late for breezy
<koke> I'm getting crazy with this uk keyboard
<ajmitch> heh
<Nafallo> ajmitch: to late for breezy? ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: maybe..
<Nafallo> koke: when ajmitch say maybe, there is still a pretty good chance ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<koke> well, now I can do something useful with this laptop (after rsyncing bashrc, vimrc, .ssh, .gnupg,...) :P
* Nafallo reloads REVU till koke uploads ;-)
<koke> I don't know my password for REVU
<koke> maybe I don't even have a password
<Nafallo> you just need to be in the keyring to upload :-)
<ajmitch> you don't need to put stuff on REVU, though
<ajmitch> it's just a  more convenient place to collect packages
<Nafallo> true
<Nafallo> ...and to review them I might add :-)
<ajmitch> it's impressive how some people can write run on sentences... which are just broken up... by ellipses... :)
* ajmitch will bbl anyway :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Shit, gnome-office depends on gnucash.. :'-(
<bddebian> Oh, it's a recommends
<bddebian> Grr, this is getting depressing
<ajmitch> why?
<bddebian> I'm back to not knowing what to do and gnucash is pissing me off :-)
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> that sort of fun
<ajmitch> looks like koke's bt client is getting some exposure on the devel list
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> Looks like I might be OK with Wesnoth too ;-)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, koke's certainly has it weak points but one window is nicer to multiple torrents
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> bddebian: you *may* have scraped through
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Can you use your magic and find out about xcontrib?
<ajmitch> my magic?
<ajmitch> I have no more magic than anyone else around here
<bddebian> You always seem to be able to tell me the details about a package that I can't find :-)
<ajmitch> did you upload it?
<bddebian> It doesn't exist anywhere, including packages.qa.d.o
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> and the problem is..?
<bddebian> xtranslate depends on it
<ajmitch> This is a virtual package. See the Debian policy for a definition of virtual packages.
<ajmitch> Packages providing xcontrib
<ajmitch> xbase-clients miscellaneous X clients
<ajmitch> so find out what xtranslate really depends on
<ajmitch> and fix the depends to that
<bddebian> See, now how did you find that out???
<ajmitch> google
<ajmitch> first entry
<bddebian> Hah, what a dummy :-)
<bddebian> So whats the best way to find out what xtranslate REALLY depends on?
<ajmitch> look at the package
<bddebian> I'm looking at it :-)
<ajmitch> the diff.gz is bigger than the tar
<ajmitch> it shouldn't be hard :)
<ajmitch> right, so it uses xmessage
<bddebian> Yeah, it's a whopping 2 files :-)
<ajmitch> which is in package.. xmessage
<bddebian> Where did you get xmessage from?
<ajmitch> dlocate -S xmessage
<ajmitch> I looked in the source :P
<bddebian> It also includes Xlib.h and Xatom.h
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> but it build-deps on xlibs-dev
<ajmitch> which pulls those in
<ajmitch> the runtime depend is in the system() call
<bddebian> Heh, debmake won't install.  Failed dep for ed :-)
<ajmitch> ed?
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> ed is in main..
<ajmitch> for some perverted reason
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe it's my pbuilder again?  Can you install debmake?
<ajmitch> dunno
<ajmitch> works for me
<bddebian> Yeah, I have it outside of pbuilder too.  Damnit :-)
<ajmitch> ubuntu-standard depends on ed
<bddebian> Nice :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Any thoughts/cares about all the mozilla-locale-* packages on unmet deps?
<ajmitch> cares? none
<ajmitch> I couldn't care less if they were taken round the back & shot
<bddebian> That's what I love about you.  Your sweet disposition. ;-)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> they were probably replaced by something else a long time ago
<bddebian> Exactly.  Morgue the fscking things :)
<ajmitch> hey Arrogance
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK, Mr. Smarty pants, what replaces libxmerl-erlang?
<Arrogance> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: nothing
<ajmitch> it has the same problem in debian
<bddebian> So fix it ;-)
<ajmitch> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?popcon=manderlbot
<ajmitch> do you think *anyone* cares about it in ubuntu?
<ajmitch> even my packages have more users!
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Hey, I'm just trying to "fix" what's on the list
* ajmitch has a package with popcon stats of 3
<ajmitch> I feel so loved
* bddebian hugs ajmitch 
<ajmitch> bah
<marcin_ant> hi all
<bddebian> Hello Marce
<bddebian> Err marcin_ant
<marcin_ant> I need some help
<marcin_ant> could someone tell me what are *-stamp targets in debian/rules?
<bddebian> Usually to create files to tell that that part of the process has run already or something like that
<marcin_ant> bddebian, I thought so
<marcin_ant> bddebian, but how does it work?
<marcin_ant> bddebian, do I need to add some specific code to rules file to use these 'stamps' ?
<bddebian> It just touches *-stamp and creates a file which puts the current date/time stamp on the file.  Then it looks for the existence of that file.
<marcin_ant> bddebian, so for example if I want to create emacs-snapshot package - and emacs needs to run 'make bootstrap' before any build
<marcin_ant> bddebian, than I could use this 'stamp' trick to run 'make bootstrap' only once?
<jorgp2> ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net is down?
<bddebian> marcin_ant: I don't think you need to do that.  Afaik each section only runs once unless you run it consecutively
<bddebian> rezound got fixed??
<marcin_ant> bddebian, well it should run once but with rules generated with dh_make build procedure runs twice... first with 'rules/build' and then with 'rules/binary'
<bddebian> You mean binary:  runs build: or build-stamp: ?
<marcin_ant> bddebian, well it runs build
<marcin_ant> bddebian, and then binary - but binary is binary: binary-arch binary-indep - and then - binary-arch: build-arch install-arch
<bddebian> You can execute them independently.  So "debian/rules build" just runs the build section.  "debian/rules binary" runs the binary section which calls the build: section.  Does that make sense?
<marcin_ant> bddebian, yes it is like you said
<marcin_ant> bddebian, and I would like to do something to run 'build' procedure only once
<marcin_ant> bddebian, hope that 'stamp' trick will help
<bddebian> marcin_ant: No, if you run "debian/rules binary", the build: only runs once.
<marcin_ant> bddebian, right but if I run dpkg-buildpackage then it runs 'debian/rules build' and then 'debian/rules binary' - right?
<bddebian> It shouldn't
<bddebian> ajmitch: libavcodec2?
<ajmitch> yes?
<bddebian> NM, gpac doesn't show up in shit either
* bddebian has no fscking idea what he is doing
<bmonty_laptop> still wondering about the stamp files?
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: No, trying to build a libpgtcl package from upstream :-)
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, well not
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, I think I know how it works
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, but need to wait for a while to be 100% sure
<bmonty_laptop> marcin_ant: you know how make decides to build a target, right?
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, uhm
<bmonty_laptop> marcin_ant: check the make documentation for how it decides to build targets, the stamp files will make sense :)
<ajmitch> wonderful changelog entry by mjg59
<ajmitch>    * Add sick evil code for doing sick evil things to sick evil
<ajmitch>      screensavers
<bmonty_laptop> heh
<bddebian> hehe, that looks like one of mine :-)
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, well I don't see anything about stamps in make manual
<bddebian> Anyone have the patience of a saint and want to help me package something?
<bmonty_laptop> marcin_ant: they are taking advantage of the date/time on the file
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, ok but how is it related with make?
<bmonty_laptop> since the rules file is a makefile
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, ok but there is nothing about stamp files in make documentation (or I'm blind)
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: I'm not a saint, and I probably can't help, but I'll try
<bmonty_laptop> marcin_ant: you are probably right, look at the parts about how make checks the date/time of a source file to decide if the compiler needs to run, stamp files are the same idea
<bddebian> I'm trying to build libpgtcl from upstream.  I have the framework and it "builds" but I don't think it's actually doing anything :-)
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, hmm ok but this 'stamp' magic goes mostly from some debian helpers than from make - right?
<bmonty_laptop> I don't think so
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, you are right
<marcin_ant> bmonty_laptop, it's make feature
<bddebian> What does the $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr  in $(MAKE) do for me?
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi bddebian
<tritium> How are you?
<bddebian> Not too bad, thanks.  You?
<tritium> Not too bad, thanks.
<ajmitch> hello tritium
<bmonty_laptop> good night all
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty_laptop
<tritium> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> yay, patching c# apps is so fun
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> So if I just have "$(MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr in rules, what should I do to move the library produced to /usr/lib/ ?
<ajmitch> bddebian: DESTDIR, not prefix
<bddebian> Hey, dh_make did that :-)
<ajmitch> and it should be $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp, I think
<ajmitch> when using DESTDIR
<ajmitch> bddebian: you haven't done a package from scratch before, have you?
<bddebian> Nope
<bddebian> Well kind of but never a library
<ajmitch> explains a bit :)
<bddebian> Thanks, as always, for your loving support
<ajmitch> no problem
<bddebian> So would you like to help me instead of just laughing at me?
<ajmitch> I'm not laughing at you
<ajmitch> I was giving you tips for a reason
<bddebian> Well I don't exactly know what to do with DESDIR :-(  It isn't in the NM Guide either :-(
<ajmitch> perhaps I'm too old fashioned :P
<ajmitch> nah
<bddebian> Too old fashioned for what?
<ajmitch> just checked, cdbs does use DESTDIR as it should
<ajmitch> why is it hard for you to use DESTDIR?
<bddebian> I didn't say it was, I just don't know what to do with it
<ajmitch> stick it in debian/rules
<bddebian> No shit, where? :-)
* ajmitch looks around for a brick wall
<ajmitch> on the make install line..
<bddebian> OK, I know that too but how?
<ajmitch> did I not say before?
<ajmitch> DESTDIR, not prefix
<ajmitch> so you write..
<ajmitch> $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<bddebian> That's what I was asking, thank you.
<bddebian> It didn't put it in /usr/lib
<bddebian> ajmitch: ^^
<ajmitch> where did it put it?
<bddebian> afaict: /home/bdefreese/devel/pgtcl/libpgtcl-1.5/libpgtcl1.5/debian/tmp/usr/lib/pgtcl1.5/
<ajmitch> yes, that's right
<ajmitch> what's wrong with that?
<bddebian> Uhm, it's supposed to go to /usr/lib
<ajmitch> stuff should *never* end up in /usr/lib or similar places until the package is installed
<ajmitch> right?
<bddebian> This is after dpkg -i *.deb
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> so you have something rather screwy :)
<ajmitch> dpkg-deb -c package.deb
<ajmitch> you're using dh_install?
<bddebian> It ain't in there :-(
<ajmitch> which means that you're not installing it at all
<bddebian> Aye
<ajmitch> because you don't have dh_install setup to grab the files from debian/tmp
<bddebian> Aye.  Do I just need dh_install or some params?
<ajmitch> you've probably seen a few hundred packages as an example by now
<bddebian> It's still not there :-(
<marcin_ant> heh sorry to bother but new question to you guys
<marcin_ant> I'm trying to build some package (emacs... ) and I got millions of warnings like this one "pointer targets in passing argument 1 of strlen differ in signedness
<marcin_ant> "
<marcin_ant> how to get rid of these warnings in make output?
<ajmitch> marcin_ant: fix the source ;)
<ajmitch> they're gcc warnings because the source needs to be fixed up
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, well I know but I don't know how
<ajmitch> why do you worry about them?
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, and I really don't want to touch emacs 'core'
<ajmitch> hiding the compiler warnings isn't really a great idea
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, I don't worry at all - they just annoying - thousands of them
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, ok - but is it possible?
<ajmitch> probably by passing the appropriate -W flags to gcc
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, ehh I've been trying but don't know which flags
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, anyway I'll try to live with these warnings...
<ajmitch> hi jsgotangco
<ajmitch> how are you?
<jsgotangco> hi ajmitch
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, not bad just testing the laptop now, i've seen improvements in hibernate/suspend in my unit after the update
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach!
<dholbach> morning andrew
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> how are you?
* ajmitch decided to go on a cleanup & recovered about 40-50GB of diskspace
<ajmitch> nearly all of it was old ubuntu source unpacked, or debs
<dholbach> wow... i could do that too :)
<dholbach> i'm fine
<dholbach> need to get another coffee, but fine
<dholbach> went through bugzilla open bugs < 7000 yesterday :)
<ajmitch> you closed 7000 bugs? ;)
<dholbach> i should have ;)
<ajmitch> have you inherited the ubuntu bugmaster title now?
<dholbach> i was not as overenthusiastic as the ubuntu bug day crew :)
<dholbach> not really :)
<ajmitch> *over*enthusiastic?
<ajmitch> are you suggesting they closed things that should have stayed open?
<dholbach> "reporter inactive - closing" :)
<dholbach> *cough*okwithme*cough*
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> > 3 months open..
<dholbach> *nod*
<ajmitch> the times when I did that, I checked that the bug was closed
<ajmitch> sometimes we need to purge old bugs :)
<dholbach> hihi
<dholbach> hey mitsuhiko, how are you?
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: fine
<mitsuhiko> although i'm at school there's nothing to do :)
<mitsuhiko> I'm playing fileserver ^^
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> what happened to your MOTU plans? ;)
<mitsuhiko> s/me/notebook
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: ubuntuusers is atm to much work
<mitsuhiko> so i would be a lacy motu
<mitsuhiko> but still on the todo list :)
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> how is ubuntu users going?
<dholbach> i guess we should do some community recruiting amongst those users - what do you think?
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: hm. atm we're switching to moinmoin
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: you can join the community and ask for help ^^
<dholbach> maybe we should raise awareness of MOTU/translators/doc-tea/artwork-team, ...
<mitsuhiko> yeah. atm there is to few publicity
<dholbach> maybe we should do something like the MOTU report
<dholbach> a community report, which is translated into the different languages
<dholbach> i'm quite sure, that'd make great gthings happen
<mitsuhiko> yeah. but therefore you need a functional docteam ^^
<Burgundavia> mitsuhiko, we do
<dholbach> it's always work
<dholbach> but i think it'd be worth it
<dholbach> i write the motu report every month
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: as a kind of blog?
<ajmitch> which we appreciate
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: on the users and devel mailing list
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: but you're right, maybe i should just blog it next time
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: do you think lots of people read planet.ubuntu ?
<dholbach> maybe we should get planet.ubuntu.<country-code>
* ajmitch reads it daily :)
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: jep. i think everybody reads it daily
<dholbach> i see
<ajmitch> I've been too lazy to get my blog up there
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: mailinglist are not so spread umong the users
<mitsuhiko> (omg. i have to improve my English)
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: thanks for telling me... whiprush already told me to spread things like that in the blog, maybe i will
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: do you think kind of a "community report" would help to get more people in all sorts of teams?
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: sure it would. the most important thing is to let the community participate
<dholbach> yeah, and especially raise awareness before
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: can i add this to the locoteammeeting argenda?
<mitsuhiko> -r
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: shall we sit together and flesh something out before?
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: this would be perfect
<dholbach> excellent
<ajmitch> dholbach: something for the fridge ;)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> THE! FRIDGE! :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: what should malone #2420 be assigned to?
<ajmitch> it's a LP bug, isn't it?
<dholbach> yep
* ajmitch probably can't reassign then :)
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> hi \sh
<\sh> hey dholbach good morning :)
<dholbach> good morning :)
<dholbach> how are you?
<\sh> dholbach: can u reproduce segfaults from hcid?
<dholbach> no, i don't think so
<\sh> dholbach: less sleep :) worked on bluetooth stuff on the r200
<dholbach> chmj is your man
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> i have to check further this evening
* ajmitch wonders if there's anything left to do for us MOTUs ;)
<dholbach> nothing to do?
<dholbach> haha :)
<\sh> LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet |less
<\sh> i see a lot ;)
<dholbach> [   ]  breezy-autotest.failed.amd64   20-Sep-2005 08:22  2.0K
<dholbach> [   ]  breezy-autotest.failed.i386    20-Sep-2005 08:22  294
<dholbach> [   ]  breezy-autotest.failed.ia64    20-Sep-2005 08:22  1.1K
<dholbach> [   ]  breezy-autotest.failed.powerpc 20-Sep-2005 08:22  777
<dholbach> those, too :)
<ajmitch> 294 bytes? ;)
<ajmitch> that's why I'm sure those lists are completely inaccurate
<ajmitch> I know there's a lot more packages that FTBFS
<sivang> dholbach: they mean the non of the repo's are building ok ? :-)
* ajmitch starts listening to some 80s music instead :)
<dholbach> sivang: hm?
<sivang> dholbach: the autotest failures
<dholbach> ajmitch: it's not finished yet
<dholbach> the non?
<\sh> ogra: ping...george quit his job
<\sh> have to find this asshole now...leaves me alone here
<sivang> \sh: you're left alone in office?
<Burgundavia> siretart, londonlaw appears to still be wanting wxwidgets 2.4
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, you who complain about nothing to do. Upload gobby for me
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: heh
<ajmitch> are the libs it needs in now?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, let me check
<ajmitch> they seem to be
* ajmitch can upload the fixed package then
<dholbach> sivang: i still don't understand what you said... it just means that the logs of those packages that failed are as big as i stated :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: there's the small problem of libgtkmm-2.4-dev having an epoch in debian, but not in ubuntu :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'd really *hate* to have an epoch in ubuntu as wel
<dholbach> ouch
<ajmitch> but some silly person put it in debian
<dholbach> we'll have to sync it from there
<dholbach> i'll take care of it later
<ajmitch> well, it's not nice
<dholbach> no it's not, but we want sync-ability :)
<ajmitch> debian has 1:2.6.2-1.1 in unstable
<ajmitch> because it went 2.6.0 ->1:2.4.11
<dholbach> oh nice :)
<ajmitch> I see, they reverted unstable to the 2.4 branch..
<dholbach> we'll have 1:2.8.0-0ubuntu1 or something :)
<ajmitch> how evil
* ajmitch shudders
<ajmitch> ok, syncs requested, gobby building
<Burgundavia> ouch linspire has nasty version numbers
<ajmitch> main upload rights requested from elmo (finally)
<Burgundavia> umm, ya --> 2:1:1.0-0.0.2003.10.23-2-9.4.1
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: uhm
<ajmitch> that is perverse
<Burgundavia> how about --> 5.8.1-3.0.0.45.0.0.0.1
* ajmitch searches for his torch & pitchfork to go & lynch linspire
<jsgotangco> ouch
<jsgotangco> that is horrible
<ajmitch> they say that is perfectly logical ;)
<Burgundavia> there explanations make a lot of sense, when you have the guide in front of you
<Burgundavia> if you don't...
<ajmitch> up a muddy creek
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to crash. Been up since 6 with 6 hours of sleep
* ajmitch is reminded to ask people to write up their meeting topics on the MOTU meeting page
<ajmitch> night Burgundavia
<sivang> dholbach: ok, at least now I understand what you said :-)
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> sivang: no...but he's one of the good people here
<ajmitch> \sh: so you're all alone in your area?
<\sh> ajmitch: no, but as I said..he was our SDT specialist for DTV stuff..and it was quite a surprise that he resigned now, he never said a word
<sivang> \sh: you can never tell, some people suffer within and then one day they decided to put an end to the misery ;-)
<ajmitch> \sh: how much longer do you plan to stay? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: i don't know...depends what offers are coming in ;
<\sh> )
<ajmitch> hehe
<sivang> isn't that alwasy the situation? ;)
* ajmitch doesn't expect to be getting any new job offers anytime soon
<jsgotangco> i might
<jsgotangco> (with a game company)
<\sh> sivang: well...I mean it's a nice job..no one disturbs me doing other things...but moneywise...there are better offers..but I like the "saftyness" of the job right now...and I need the bloody money to pay my car and to pay my ex ,-)
<sivang> \sh: ah I see, well, if you can do whatever you like there, then it's very good, I wish it was more for me, but at the end of the day, I may also do some changes in order for me to do what I really like
<sivang> \sh: however, I'm myself's only dependent, so it's easier..
* ajmitch doesn't mind where he is too much
<sivang> jsgotangco: game comapny? awesome
<\sh> sivang: I mean, working for this cable tv company...I never expected to learn somethine else then sysadmin or devstuff
<sivang> jsgotangco: what games are they doing?
<jsgotangco> sivang, korean MMORGPs
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: you're between jobs at the moment?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, i don't have a job now
<ajmitch> same thing :)
<sivang> \sh: that's nice, you are on eof the technician, or sysadmins?
<sivang> ajmitch, jsgotangco : you're both students right?
<ajmitch> sivang: no
<\sh> sivang: eof?
<ajmitch> sivang: I'm employed doing php coding now :)
<ajmitch> hardly spectacular, but it pays the bills ;)
<jsgotangco> sivang, no
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: how long has it been since you were a student? 10 years now?
<sivang> \sh: oops sorry, too much python on the train road ;-)
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, :P
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> sivang: end of file the technician?
<\sh> ,-
<\sh> )
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: don't feel bad :)
<\sh> dholbach: 2 packages only for i386 failed and some more on amd64 and pcc?
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, i won an RHCE exam pack from the local linuxworld event i'm looking for study guides
* ajmitch hopes these syncs go through, & his key processed
<ajmitch> so that I can make it 9 packages today
<sivang> \sh: LOL
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: great :)
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> do we need gnome-launch-box?
<\sh> and no TB meeting today?
<dholbach> \sh: seems so
<dholbach> \sh: we definitely don't need it
<dholbach> \sh: it's crack
<ajmitch> hm good
<ajmitch> still spare rooms at the UBZ hotel, and I can share with someone & get 1/2 price
<jsgotangco> wow ajmitch you're really going eh
<ajmitch> I decided today that I need a break from dunedin for a couple of weeks
<ajmitch> so I'm visiting friends in the US as well
<jsgotangco> thats nice
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> \sh: you got quoted on planet debian!
<\sh> what?
<\sh> hmmm..planet.debian.org I can't connect..but now from different servers and different connections
<\sh> ah flybook stuff
<ajmitch> yep
<\sh> I thought the joke ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: u rock man :) I'm glad to hear, that you're joining UBZ :)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch is just finding his old UDU photos
<ajmitch> comparing the sizes of my 2 laptops, my old one is tiny in comparison :)
<\sh> ajmitch: show ;)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> bad network drivers on my old laptop
<ajmitch> might be fun trying to dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> maybe I can do networking via IR ;)
<Lathiat> haha
<ajmitch> either that or I *attempt* to find the dongle for the pcmcia nic in the old laptop
* ajmitch really has no idea where the nic dongle is :)
<Lathiat> SLIP!
<ajmitch> actually yeah..
<ajmitch> I've got a null modem cable sitting in a box somewhere ;)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: PLIP would be quicker then IR or null modem
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I got ad-hoc wireless going
<mbreit> good morning!
<ajmitch> so new laptop is doing nat to the rest of the network now for the old laptop
<ajmitch> and PLIP would require the right sort of cale
<ajmitch> cable
* ajmitch forgot how broken this keyboard was getting
<ajmitch> mmm
<ajmitch> 491MB to upgrade on the old laptop :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yeah, I know. I used to run my whole network with PLIP and "laplink" cables, when I had a few 486s
<ajmitch> oh good
<ajmitch> irssi lockup was only temporary that time
<tseng> someone in my apartment just renamed their ssid to nicetryfreeloaders
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> tseng: cracked the key yet?
<tseng> ajmitch: no.
<dholbach> hey brandon, hey sebastian
<tseng> hi daniel
<dholbach> how are you?
<tseng> good, you?
<dholbach> me too, thanks :)
<slomo> hi everybody :) does someone have a coffee for me? ;)
<tseng> i have some great teas
<tseng> no coffee
<mbreit> hey slomo, hi daniel...
<slomo> tseng: tea is also good :)
<tseng> slomo: i have all kinds
<tseng> darjeeling green or black
<tseng> nilgiri
<dholbach> slomo: if you arrived in berlin, i should have one ready :)
<dholbach> it's charming weather over here and i'd know the perfect place to get some ice cream after the coffee :)
<slomo> tseng: darjeeling is fine, thanks :)
<tseng> thats my favorite.
<ajmitch> hm, f-spot is quite a nice app
* ajmitch spots a dholbach photo or 3 in his UDU collection
<dholbach> *snigger*
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.dyndns.win.co.nz/Images/Camera/Photos/UDU/Saturday/p1010005.jpg
<ajmitch> the crazy people of ubuntu
<siretart> who is who?
<ajmitch> in front is doko, myself, whiprush
<ajmitch> the back 6 are dholbach, daniels, mjg59 (behind jdub), jdub, thom, Mithrandir
<siretart> ah :)
<siretart> nice :)
* dholbach can't remember when this picture was taken :)
<dholbach> doko, ajmitch and whiprush in the lower row :)
<ajmitch> at the end of the dinner on saturday night
<ajmitch> iirc
<ogra> dholbach, yes, you shouldnt be drunk all day on conferences :P
<siretart> lol
<ajmitch> hehe
<ogra> me cries about gnome-screensaver
* dholbach was never drunk
* dholbach 'd remember that
<dholbach> :-p
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> ogra: people are calling for it to be removed, after a few days of you working on it?
<ajmitch> dholbach: next time..
<ogra> ajmitch, even worse, jdub calls for it to be removed, after he poked a lot to get it in at the beginning of the cycle...
<ajmitch> I know :(
<ogra> i drown in bugs and dont know on which i should work now...
<slomo> hm :(
<ogra> since i dont have enough time to waste it
<\sh> ogra: oh happened to me with amarok ;) don't worry ;)
<ogra> \sh, thats not really the same...
<slomo> \sh: what was with amarok?
<ogra> \sh, amarok had a more stable source available...
<\sh> ogra: it is...sabdfl wanted it, and i had the work ;)
<ogra> \sh, gnome-screensaver is lacking essential features...
<ajmitch> like speed & stability?
<\sh> ogra: well....kick it...kick upstream
<ogra> (try to adjust the url for a rss based text screensaver for example)
* ajmitch hasn't used it enough to tell
<\sh> i don't have a screensaver running...only blanking screen
<ogra> \sh, kicking wont speed it up
<\sh> it's annoying to have screensaver...
* ajmitch is generally ignoring his screen if the screensaver is on
<ajmitch> although I'm glad I don't have that fireworks screensaver ;)
<ogra> its silent now :)
<ajmitch> no more interrupting users having sex? ;)
<ogra> except you look at it :P
<ajmitch> at least you get interesting bugreports
<ogra> heh, yes... that one was the best i ever had :)
<ogra> quite entertaining
<\sh> ogra: u heard what I said earlier? george resigned from ish
<ogra> yup
<ogra> where does he go ?
<\sh> ogra: he has two offers...he didn't say where he goes now..
<\sh> ogra: but for me it came very surprising
<ogra> yeah, the NOC will be empty without him
<\sh> ogra: yeah...it's sad
<\sh> now this is at least a reason to leave as well ;)
<ajmitch> :)
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> btw, what do we have to talk about for the meeting this week?
<ajmitch>         cp -a zgettext.py debian/$(pkg)/usr/bin/zgettext ln -s ../../../../../../bin/zgettext debian/$(pkg)/$(INSTDIR)/zgettext.py
* ajmitch cries
<ajmitch> this one calls for a sync from debian
<ajmitch> so did you see that we can have hackergotchis in launchpad now? ;)
<slomo> and a homepage ;)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> editing hackergotchis still has permission issue, but I saw jamesh talking about it earlier :)
<slomo> doko: i'm currently looking at spe... shall i sync 0.7.5 from debian for wx2.6 or just keep 0.7.3a?
<doko> slomo: a sync is already requested
<slomo> doko: hrm... maybe i'm finished with your bug before elmo got to the sync... can i upload -1ubuntu1 then or should i wait for elmo's sync?
<doko> slomo: no, you can upload
<thesaltydog> who knows which is the default PIN of bluetooth soon after installation?
<slomo> doko: ok... will do ;) but as you are the maintainer in debian for this package... why don't you fix all the stuff? :P and do you have some other packages which needs similar polishing?
<slomo> thesaltydog: 1234? just a guess ;)
<thesaltydog> slomo, nop... disconnected
<doko> slomo: lack of time ...
<thesaltydog> dholbach, you know which is the default bluetooth pin after installation?
<dholbach> 1234
<slomo> lol
<dholbach> it's in /etc/bluetooth/pin
<thesaltydog> it didn't work. I will try again..
<thesaltydog> ok, thanks
<dholbach> you might want to enable dbus_pin_helper in /etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf too
<dholbach> chmj should be much more of an expert than me :)
* ajmitch gives the dsl a good kicking
<slomo> ajmitch: ipv6?
<ajmitch> slomo: yes?
<ajmitch> it's a tunnel
<slomo> ajmitch: ah... ok, nothing special ;)
<ajmitch> nah, we don't have native ipv6 on dsl here yet ;)
<ajmitch> although it might be useful
<slomo> is there already one provider on earth who has native ipv6 for the masses? ;)
<ajmitch> I think so
<ajmitch> I've heard of a few
<ajmitch> and I'm sure that a decent ISP could manage it without *too* many difficulties
<ajmitch> it's just whether it's cost-effective or not
<slomo> doko: spe is simply broken for me ;) when i tell it to show some docs it open firefox with the default homepage...
<doko> slomo: I thought, you fixed it?
<slomo> doko: spe? no... i've started it the first time now and wanted to process your bug then... but maybe i already found the problem
<xerxas_> someone using networkmanager ?
<hunger> xerxas: I do sometimes.
<xerxas> hunger: I have a lan with a dns and network manager doesn't use it
<xerxas> do you know how could I do to fix this ?
<xerxas> is it a dhcdbd problem ?
<xerxas> hunger, I have a dhcpd that gives the domain-server
<xerxas> hunger, oops, it doesn't
<xerxas> sorry
<xerxas>   #option name-servers 192.168.0.3;
<xerxas>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.3;
<hunger> xerxas: Mine does, NM recognizes and uses that.
<xerxas> /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf line 17: unknown option dhcp.name-servers
<xerxas>   option name-servers 192.
<xerxas> hunger,  what do you have in you're dhcpd.conf ?
<hunger> xerxas: Can't get to that from here, sorry.
<hunger> xerxas: I'm using ipcop, maybe googleing for ipcop dhcpd.conf helps?
<xerxas> hunger, k
<xerxas> (maybe not the chan to talk about that :) )
<siretart> damn. I did a typo in /etc/hosts
<siretart> now sudo complains sudo: unable to lookup obelix via gethostbyname()
<siretart> is there some other way to gain root?
<\sh> single user mode
<siretart> ok. rebooting
<\sh> or live cd and change etc hosts after mounting the drivers
<\sh> drives even
<xerxas> find a security hole :)
<siretart> rebooted with init=/bin/sh, that worked
<dholbach> bbl
<slomo> hmm... do we have a python guru here? :) is the webbrowser module in ubuntu broken?!
<ajmitch> night all
<slomo> gn8 ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya gang
<mbreit> hi bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<bigcx2> hey everyone
<bigcx2> i don't know if i'm ready to be a motu yet
<bigcx2> but i just recently fixed a bug that i filed in malone for the zope-ldap package
<bigcx2> and i just wanted to know if i could pass it on
<bigcx2> and am constantly always hacking around with packages and whatnot
<bigcx2> so anyone have any advice?
<bddebian> bigcx2: Advice on what, becoming an MOTU?
<bigcx2> yea sure
<bddebian> You want to first work on becoming an Ubuntu member.  Keep bug fixings, build new pacakges and post to REVU, documentation, any other work for Ubuntu.
<bigcx2> alright well being a student right now i'm not sure i have time to do all that
<bigcx2> so say i just wanted to pass my package to upstream
<bigcx2> should i just contact the package maintainer and ask him to make the changes?
<bigcx2> what's the "proper" way to do this
<bddebian> bigcx2: If it is an "upstream" change yes, that would be ideal.  At least hit the Debian maintainer
<bigcx2> bddebian: alright thanks. will do
<\sh> who is responsible for those repos:
<\sh> deb http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/ hoary-backports main universe multiverse restricted
<\sh> deb http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/ hoary-extras main universe multiverse restricted
<\sh> it's not the official backports repos, right?
<thesaltydog> \sh, did you fix your tests with bluetooth yestarday?
<mbreit> \sh: i think it's the old non-official repository from the backports project... so responsible should be jdong, mez....
<\sh> thesaltydog: well...I see hcid segfaulting for me, when my phone tries to connect the laptop
<\sh> thesaltydog: e.g. with gnokii --identify
<\sh> thesaltydog: but sending files to obexserver wors
<thesaltydog> \sh, I'll be back to you this night or tomorrow with my tests..
<markuman>  every time when i try to build a deb file, the deb files are only a few kbs big. so the source code was not included. i ve paste here the 2 lines from output and the debian/rules http://paste.debian.net/1980
<markuman> or is it right that the deb is only 13 kb big but the original src 350kb?
<ogra_> what does lintian say about the deb ?
<ogra_> and dpkg --contents ...
<Yagisan> markuman: missing -sa
<Yagisan> markuman when you build the source you need to add the switch for a full source output, not just the diff
<Yagisan> markuman: if you want full source out, otherwise it will only do the diff for each new release
<ogra_> Yagisan, you dnot need -sa for a local testbuild...
<ogra_> markuman, indeed you have a smaller binary package than your source is...
<markuman> ogra: here the lintian output http://paste.debian.net/1981
<markuman> so its normal?
<ogra_> what does dpkg --contents say ? is the binary you wanted in there ?
<markuman> ive add it in the same paste ogra
<markuman> yes, /usr/bin/xfce4-taskmanager  it is in there
<ogra_> ok, now just make sure you solve the lintian warnings :)
<ogra_> lintian -i is your friend :)
<ogra_> its normal that a binary is way smaller than a source package... dont worry about that one
<ogra_> markuman, btw, is that different from xfce4-taskbar-plugin ?
<markuman> yes a big! :-) http://xfce-goodies.berlios.de/images/taskmanager.png http://xfce-goodies.berlios.de/images/xfce-taskbar-plugin.png
<ogra_> ah
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<dholbach> re
<dholbach> i have a problem with my internet connection
<dholbach> *GRR*
<ogra_> dholbach, such things only happen in berlin :)
<ivoks> hi
<ogra_> ivoks, !
<dholbach> hi ivoks
<dholbach> ogra_: hahaha.... and in the eifel :)
<ivoks> o-o... i'm guilty again
<ogra_> ivoks, why did you revert the java stuff ?
<ivoks> ?!
<ogra_> ivoks, i said you should build the requested package to fix it
<ivoks> i did
<ogra_> not to fiddle with the broken package again
<ivoks> it's waiting for aprooval
<ogra_> oh, ok
<ogra_> i only saw the java upload...
<ivoks> j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin
<ivoks> i know
<ogra_> that one will be overruled by doko's sync anyway
<ivoks> it's not in archive yet
<ivoks> right
<ogra_> yes, elmo wil have to process it
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> but, one question
<ogra_> but youre lucky, he's actually around somewher to poke him :)
<ivoks> i don't want to make more people angry at me :)
<ogra_> hey, its his job
<ogra_> (not the nagryness though)
<ogra_> angryness
<ivoks> i will...
<ivoks> but one question..
<bddebian> ivoks: Why should you be the only one? ;-)
<ivoks> i can't get this right...
<ivoks> i got marilat's package, and didn't change it
<ivoks> it builds and works
<ivoks> how do i upload it? since, i can't upload with his email
<ivoks> i did debsign it with my pgp
<ivoks> but that doesn't work either...
<ivoks> so, any one care to tutor me on this one?
<ivoks> please?
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> re
<dholbach> ivoks: debuild -S (-sa for new upstream version (new orig.tar.gz)) -kivoks@cool.mailaddress.com
<ivoks> dholbach: i did that...
<dholbach> ivoks: what ahppened?
<ivoks> i signed it
<bddebian> ivoks: Is it a new version?  You can do -v<current version>
<dholbach> debuild -S -sa -kdh@mailempfang; cd ..; dput ubuntu bla*changes - that would work for me
<ivoks> eh, not for me :/
<dholbach> well. what happened?
<ivoks> it uploads, but i don't get mail notification
<ivoks> it's like silently droped
<ogra_> ivoks, are you sure your address is whitelisted ?
<ivoks> let's try again...
<dholbach> of course
<ivoks> ogra_: well, i did uplaod java :)
<ogra_> dont just do random uploads
<dholbach> because it's not your mail adress in the changelog
<ivoks> dholbach: right
<ivoks> that's why i'm asking
<ogra_> ivoks, then you can be sure elmo gets angry
<dholbach> but it didn't get neglected
<ogra_> rather ask him
<markuman> im not sure in what section i should entered xfce-taskmanager? x11?
* Amaranth waves
<dholbach> markuman: sounds reasonable
<bddebian> ivoks: If his name is on the changelog but you signed with your key, he will get the notification, not you :-)
<ogra_> markuman, sounds good... if in doubt, look at any other xfce package
<ivoks> bddebian: :)
<ivoks> bddebian: but, it didn't get to breezy-changes
<ivoks> i could do a shangelog entry :)
<ivoks> changelog :/
<ivoks> this upload fixes bug...
<bddebian> ivoks: Ah, that's different :-)
<dholbach> hey tritium
<bddebian> Aye, heya tritium
<tritium> hi there dholbach
<tritium> and bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
* tritium is home sick today
<bddebian> :-(
<markuman> ok, now i have the problem with the man pages. there are no man pages for the xfce-taskmanager. what could i do?
<dholbach> tritium: which home are you referring too?
<ogra_> markuman, write one :)
<tritium> dholbach, I mean I am not at work because I am not feeling well...
<dholbach> markuman: it's trivially easy, if you use the .sgml default thingie you get via dh_make
<tritium> How are all of you?
<dholbach> tritium: oh... you got a cold or something?
<tritium> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> tritium: hope you get well soon
<tritium> thanks, dholbach
* dholbach hugs tritium 
<tritium> :)
<tritium> thanks, dholbach
<dholbach> :)
<markuman> yes i get is dholbach
<markuman> ok ogra_
<dholbach> markuman: if you apt-get source gparted, you will see, how to implement in the debian/rules file, so the manpage gets prepared at build time
<doko> ivoks: is j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin a separate source package?
<markuman> ok
<ivoks> doko: yes
<ivoks> doko: meta-j2re1.4-mozilla
<doko> ivoks: cool, you may want to extract the Recommends for j2re1.4 and add them for your package as dependencies.
<doko> and please build for i386 and amd64 only
<bddebian> doko: Hi, how's fontforge/ttf-dejavu? ;-)
<ivoks> ok
<doko> bddebian: waiting
<ivoks> dholbach: shouldn't i change Changed-by?
<ogra> ivoks, dch does that for you...
<dholbach> no, changed-by isn't part of a debian/control file
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> ogra: yes, but i don't do any changes to source/package
<ogra> ivoks, none at all ?
<ivoks> non at all
<ogra> err, so why do you upload it then ?
<ivoks> it fixes bug
<ivoks> it's new version, and marillat fixed it to build with gcc4
<ivoks> so, there is nothing i should do, only upload it
<dholbach> ivoks: elmo can just sync the source package from anywhere
<ogra> ivoks, as dholbach says, ask elmo for a sync
<ivoks> yes? i tought he does that only from debian :/
<ogra> nope
<ivoks> argh... :)
<ogra> he also did them from apt-get.org sources for hoary
<ivoks> ok, then i'll ask him...
<ivoks> thanks
<\sh> who was the bluetooth specialist?
<\sh> chmj?
<dholbach> yep
<\sh> thx :)
<_tonio> hi everyone
<_tonio> \sh: can I ask for a favor ?
<\sh> _tonio: sure...
<dholbach> hi _tonio
<_tonio> okay ;)
<_tonio> hi dholbach
<_tonio> well I want to package a kind of dvd clone for kde
<_tonio> problem is one the the deps isn't actually added
<_tonio> a very very small app called vamps
<bddebian> Heya _tonio
<_tonio> to get the first package compiling on the server the second has to be uploaded no ?
<Treenaks> 4
<_tonio> because the package is ridiculous (1k), would it be possible for you to validate it quick (I could then build the second one ;)
<_tonio> or if you have another solution
<\sh> dvd clone?
<ivoks> doko: I should put Recomends: j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin in j2se1.4's j2re1.4 package?
<_tonio> the application is called let me see, I don't remember ;)
<\sh> _tonio: whoops...I have to postpone your request...i have not my dev laptop online..only my small baby here..
<_tonio> a kind of dvdshrink
<\sh> which dependency is not pulled in?
<_tonio> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=23885 here it is
<_tonio> vamps
<_tonio> the package vamps doesn't exist
<_tonio> I have done it (no deps and so little that it took a second)
<doko> ivoks: no, please don't change that package
<ivoks> doko: but what should i recommend then? i didn't understand you
<_tonio> \sh: problem is that pbuilder and the server won't be able to compile k9copy if vamps isn't already upload
<ivoks> doko: i know you said not to touch, that's why i'm asking :)
<_tonio> the problem is that if I wait for vamps to be validated and uploaded I may not have time to package k9copy before breezy ;) and that ap rocks ;)
<_tonio> dholbach: do you know a kind of solution to that problem ?
<slomo> _tonio: you can either setup a local apt repository for such stuff... or workaround that problem with pbuilder login ;)
<\sh> _tonio: u can setup your own repos and put it to pbuilder
<_tonio> yes but what about the server? and motus ?
<_tonio> they wil put a bug NO because it won't compile ;)
<_tonio> a big NO excuse me ;)
<dholbach> _tonio: build it locally with   debuild
<dholbach> _tonio: that's not as nice, but it works too :)
<_tonio> and about motus ?
<\sh> _tonio: if vamps isn't in the archive..it has to be build and packaged before
<_tonio> I know that, and U'm gona do it
<\sh> _tonio: so u have to note it down in your remark to the package
<_tonio> then test locally k9copy and wait for vamps to be uploaded before adding k9copy
<markuman> ive problems with the man pages for xfce4-taskmanager. <arg><option>--example <replaceable>that</replaceable></option></arg> but there are no options....
<_tonio> problem is that I cannot post (not a motu actually) so when i post that K9copy can you add the remark ?
<dholbach> siretart: ^
<\sh> _tonio: u don't have an account to revu?
<_tonio> \sh: this is the favor I was asking for lol :)
<_tonio> no, no time to get my key signed
<ogra> _tonio, just get one
<_tonio> this is the trick
<\sh> _tonio: as i said, i don't have the password here...and my gpg key is on the other machine...and right now I'm too lazy
<_tonio> I can understand, maybe dholbach will be able ;)
<dholbach> _tonio: i'm not adminstrator of that machine
<dholbach> siretart is
<_tonio> ah okay ;)
<siretart> huh? what is it?
<_tonio> I'll send an email to sirestart when the two aps are build and uploaded
<_tonio> siretart: I
<_tonio> hi excuse me
<\sh> siretart: _tonio needs an account on revu to make some notes
<_tonio> \sh: don't I need to get my gnupg key signed before ? it isn't done actually, I need to find out time for this ;)
<\sh> hmm...do we need signed keys for revu?
<_tonio> I think that for an account it is necessary no ?
<\sh> _tonio: u can upload?
<\sh> _tonio: to revu?
<_tonio> yes I can
<\sh> hmm..siretart is master
<_tonio> I have send about 20 packages at this time so Yes ;)
<_tonio> anthony.mercatante@laposte.net -> it's me;)
<markuman> the programm xfce4-taskmanager has no parameter - does it need than man pages for the .deb package?
<ogra> markuman, all packages installed in PATH need a manpage
<markuman> hm
<markuman> something i did wrong....
<bddebian> ANYONE have any thoughts about the mozilla-locale-* packages on UniverseUnmetDeps?  Are they even valid/useful anymore?
<markuman> there are no more warning - only that with the man pages
<\sh> i don't think so...ask pitti
<ogra> markuman, great, so fix that one and you are done :)
<tritium> hi trulux
<bddebian> \sh: What that to me? :-)
<bddebian> Err s/What/Was
<\sh> bddebian: sry yes
<markuman> ogra, i don t know how :-( ive edit the three man pages whitch created dh_make - or should i do somthing else with them?
<ogra> markuman, as dholbach said, have a look at other packages hw they handle it
<ogra> markuman, there are several ways to produce a manpage...
<dholbach> markuman: gparted does it really easy
<ogra> markuman, easiest is to have a real manpage in the debian dir and call dh_installman with it...
<\sh> the sgml way is the easiest
<\sh> docbook2man is quite nice
<dholbach> \sh++
<ogra> markuman, more elegant is to have a sgml page that gets converted to a manpage
<\sh> kate or gedit or emacs and thats it...
<markuman> in the gparted debian folder is only one file seem to be a man page called: gparted.sgml
<dholbach> markuman: apt-get source gparted and have a look at the debian-dir - i'm quite sure you manage to do it soon
<dholbach> markuman: yes, and you need to look at debian/rules too - to see how it gets created and installed
<ogra> markuman, yes, that gets converted in the rules file
<markuman> ah ok dholbach!
<bddebian> dholbach: Got any good small library packages for me to mimick while you're at it? :)
<markuman> ok ogra :-)
<dholbach> markuman: you need docbook2man as a build-depends and then you're done
<dholbach> bddebian: hm?
<bddebian> dholbach: I'm trying to package libpgtcl and am having some problems so I wondered if you knew off-hand of a good library package to look at?
<ogra> markuman, if you are done with the package, you should contact out xfce team ;)
<ogra> s/out/our/
<dholbach> bddebian: ah ok - all the gnome libraries that are handled by seb128 are good examples
<\sh> hi littlepaul
<dholbach> hey littlepaul
<\sh> ubuntu-de is meeting motu ,)
<littlepaul> hi dholbach and \sh
<ogra> heh
<\sh> meeting is at 20utc? so i have time to take a nap
<nickm_> whats the meeting about? where? and is anyone welcome?
<\sh> nickm_: everyone is welcome to every meeting of ubuntu
<\sh> nickm_: today's the technical board meeting
<nickm_> \sh, thanks
<nickm_> #ubuntu-meeting seems a logical place, is that were it will be?
<ogra> yup
<nickm_> ill be lurking :D thanks
<markuman> now lintian -i xfce4-taskmanager_0.3.1-ubuntu1_amd64.deb works without any warnings :-D !
<ogra> :)
<markuman> but im not sure i i do it with -ubuntu1_amd64.de right?
<ogra> nope, you upload the source to revu
<markuman> revu? sry
<\sh> markuman: http://revu.tauware.de
<\sh> markuman: this is our "motu review utility"
<\sh> markuman: u upload your packages to revu, we will check and if it's good, we approve those packages...and 2 motu approves == upload to universe
<\sh> markuman: u will become famous if you're whitelisted towards breezy-changes
<markuman> ah ok. because its my first package - i hope it will work
<\sh> markuman: document your work on the wiki and the first step becoming an ubuntunite (sp?) is done
<\sh> markuman: so..give it a "go" :)
<ogra> markuman, but make sure your email is whitelisted, see the Uploads wikipage... send a mail to the whitelist address...
<slomo> lol
<slomo> Von: 	root <mdz@ubuntu.com>
<slomo> :)
<spayne> hi all
<spayne> dholbach has asked me whether i would like to help out with packaging
<spayne> i'd love to help ubuntu and i'd also love to learn packaging
<spayne> where abouts do i start?
<dholbach> nownow - everybody's sleeping? :)
<dholbach> hi spayne :)
<slomo> hi spayne :)
<dholbach> spayne: now that we're that short before release, we try to fix as much from universe as possible
<markuman> cant upload my stuff next time....have to wait for a keyparty or something like that
<dholbach> markuman: where do you live?
<dholbach> spayne: we list a couple of things at wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo and at wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions
<dholbach> one of the most important tools is outlined at wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<dholbach> and we list quite a few packaging tips at wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips
<markuman> Europe/Germany/NRW/Warstein
<dholbach> if you stick to this channel and ask every now and then, i'm quite sure you'll be able to get some easy items in your way and you'll be able to get your fixes uploaded ASAP
<dholbach> markuman: warstein - slomo, how close is that to you?
* dholbach has no idea
<slomo> markuman: what bigger city is near warstein?
<dholbach> . o O { shame on me ... }
* ogra waves from the eifel in direction of markuman 
<slomo> dholbach: i don't know either where warstein is ;)
<dholbach> if you make it to berlin, we can arrange a key signing for sure :)
<ivoks> hi
<ogra> slomo, you dont know the beer ?
<dholbach> ivoks: hey ante
<markuman> slomo Dortmund
<slomo> ogra: sure... but i don't know where the city is located ;)
<dholbach> markuman: you should have said something earlier - 4 weeks ago i lived in dortmund :)
<spayne> i've never packaged before though
<slomo> markuman: hm, dortmund is maybe 1 1/2 hours from here... but in dortmund you should find someone... it's a big city, at least bigger than mine ;)
<dholbach> spayne: if you fiddle around on existing packages, you have quite a lot to look at :)
<markuman> hm :-/
<markuman> slomo, whats your city?
<dholbach> markuman: absolutely: biglumber has at least 5-6 VERY responsive guys listed
<slomo> markuman: detmold
<dholbach> markuman: i mailed them for a keysigning party and they all appeared
<\sh> dortmund?
<dholbach> yep
<\sh> it's 1 hour from here
<\sh> ok 1 1/2 hours
<\sh> littlepaul needs also someone to sign his key
<\sh> i think I need a central meetingpoint
<\sh> markuman: mvo could sign your key..he's in bochum..and ping e.v. member :)
<littlepaul> \sh thats true http://wiki.lugrudo.de/pmwiki.php/Lugrudo/Keysigning-Treffen-05-09-01;-(
<\sh> or carsten truckenbrodt...from prima e.v.
<shackan> uhm, why do you have to phisically meet in the same place to exchange keys ? I mean, over the internet...
<shackan> ..would be easier
<\sh> littlepaul: ah..lugrudo my old linux user group..tore stelzner from UU.NET Dortmund
<ogra> shackan, thats not reliable
<littlepaul> \sh the world is small ;-)
<\sh> littlepaul: as we discussed :)
<ogra> shackan, i need to see your passport or id card to know you are you before i sign your key
<\sh> just fitting to my blog entry
<markuman> where are you from \sh?
<\sh> markuman: I was born in dortmund...now i'm living in kerpen...
<shackan> yeesh, that's serious stuff...
<\sh> markuman: but i don't mind to come to dortmund
<\sh> markuman: or lets meet in cologne somewhere..and we have some beers
<markuman> cologne sounds good
<markuman> whats with you littlepaul?
<spayne> dholbach: has gnome-bluetooth been uploaded?
<\sh> 3rd of october is a good day...or 7/8/9th of october
<shackan> ogra, ok, I've never been very paranoid about security and underestimated this :)
<dholbach> markuman: mvo lives in bochum
<ogra> shackan, its as valuable as your real life handwritten signature...
<dholbach> spayne: sure, i told you so :)
<littlepaul> cologne sounds good
<spayne> dholbach: i asked wrong question
<ogra> shackan, it has nothing to do with paranoia
<dholbach> spayne: and it built on all architectures - dunno if it's on the archive yet
<spayne> got it
<markuman> mvo? im every day till 29.sept. in Dortmund
<spayne> seeing if it is on breezy-changes...
<\sh> dholbach: markuman could go to ping e.v., prima e.v. they have members even in the strongset
<dholbach> \sh: i signed with most of the guys in dortmund
<dholbach> (on biglumber)
<markuman> hm
<\sh> dholbach: i missed my signing with carsten
<\sh> damn
<dholbach> spayne: not in the archive yet, it will take probably half an hour or something
<spayne> it is in breezy-changes
<spayne> thanks again :)
<markuman> i think i try to get in contact with mvo ...perhaps ill meet ihm somhere in dortmund/bochum
<dholbach> spayne: anytime
<markuman> \sh, what do you mean with prima e.v. ?
<\sh> markuman: Prima e.v. is a privat internet community in dortmund
<\sh> www.prima.de
<\sh> just like www.ping.de
<\sh> or in former times .ruhr.de
<markuman> ok
<\sh> in times where internet access was expensive for people..and those communities were non-commercial communities who gave access to the internet for max. 20 DM
<\sh> per month
<littlepaul> ;-)
<\sh> funny..deja vu :)
<\sh> just have a look on planet.u.c
<\sh> hehe...I just wrote a nice story from my past...
<\sh> about my past
<\sh> it all comes to one conclusion: we're living in a matrix
<ogra> \sh, which matrix ? with gnome-screensaver or xscreensaver is the question
<\sh> ogra: this matrix with personal and neuronal connections between your real life and your virtual life ;)
<\sh> the question of "g-s" and "xs" is just pure bad luck :(
<ogra> its *my* personal matrix currently
<\sh> ogra: no it's not yours..it's marks...he requested it..same for amarok
<ogra> \sh, amarok is an app that exists...
<ogra> gss doesnt exist yet... nobody uses it
<ogra> there was not even a beta release
<\sh> ogra: amarok is da monster app...everyone requested the new version..but now I get blamed for all the problems with it:(
<littlepaul> \sh, nice story
* lathiat collects all the cluebats being thrown at ogra
<ogra> lol
<ogra> lets build a wooden house from them :)
<\sh> littlepaul: it is...and i was quite surprised to find smurfix here at ubuntu again :)
<lathiat> Dude, by the time your finished it'd be outgrown
<spayne> bbl
<littlepaul> gtgn bye
<ivoks> night all
<koke> anyone knows what has happened to niran's website??
<dholbach> niran?
<dholbach> hi koke, by the way
<koke> the gnome-app-install bazaar repo
<koke> I wanted to add it translation support
<\sh> ajmitch__: motus doesn't have official shirts
<dholbach> ah, hm, well - you should ask mvo about it
<\sh> s/doesn't/don't/
<dholbach> \sh: we need them
<koke> hmm, it has support, I wanted to translate and make some fixes
<\sh> dholbach: lets see in montreal :) i'm not a designer...so it will be just a fun shirt ;) but I'll ask amu ..he has some good connections to turkey and to some people in clothing manufacture companies
<dholbach> there's a ubuntu tshirt shop in poland
<koke> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/arch/ubuntu/gnome-app-install--soc--0/ <-- maybe this
<\sh> dholbach: well...as i understand amu he will get shirts with embroided logos etc.
<Nafallo> ubuntu.no has t-shirts for sale now also :-)
<\sh> so not the print crap on those shirts, which is blessing out after 2 or 3 washings
<\sh> dholbach: but i don't know when and how much it costs..
<dholbach> me neither
<\sh> Nafallo: simiras shop right?
<\sh> or what was the name of mithrandirs gf?
<Nafallo> \sh: it's not a whole shop. right now they only got tshirts. but it should be a good start to become one :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: hehe...linuxshop.de (amu)/linuxmall.de(\sh promoting linuxshop.de) from all the deals from linuxmall.de i would get 50% and I want to spend this money to sponsor opensource projects
<Nafallo> \sh: yay! bounties anyone? ;-)
<Nafallo> \sh: you could just have bountied away amarok ;-)
<\sh> what?
<\sh> which bounty?
<\sh> did I lose money?
<\sh> for bringing amarok 1.3.1 into breezy? that would be fcking bad :)
<Nafallo> if you had money you could bountie amarok and gnome-screensaver away from you and ogra ;-)
<ogra> Nafallo, no need to...
<\sh> Nafallo: grmpf...I thought I get money for bringing it in ;)
<ogra> i think the TB was clear about g-s-s ... if sabdfl agrees we can switch back for now
<ajmitch> and if he doesn't?
<ogra> we wont...
<ajmitch> unlikely, but it may happen
<ogra> he wont make the same mistake twice
<\sh> i think sabdfl understands the problem...and will revoke
<ogra> hoary spatial was bad enough
<ogra> (for him)
<Nafallo> ogra: oh. I missed that :-). what was said? :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, that we'll switch back if sabdfl allows it
<Nafallo> ogra: *puuh*
<Nafallo> it didn't behave like this before it was seeded though ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: g-s-s just has too many issues :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: as seeded it has :-P
<ogra> it has not many issues... only some but they seem to be considered serious
<ajmitch> and that's what matters
<ogra> i.e. i naver caresd to adjust the amount or speed of explosions in fireworks but there seem to be people that do nothing else with their PC
<ogra> the missing dpms adjusment option *is* a serious issue
<ogra> a missing xscreensaver-command can be worked around with a easy wrapper
<ogra> thats all issues i see
<\sh> ogra: for some people those adjustments are "lebensnotwendig"
<ogra> but nothing thats hard to solve...
<ogra> we're just short on time... but even the config opts issue for screensavers is easy to solve...
* ajmitch hopes elmo sync his packages soon :)
<\sh> i mean..firework sounds are disturbing while u r planning a family..i would say: dude, get a life
<\sh> this will be my hilight of breezy...this bug report...
<\sh> when i
<\sh> 'm old I will look back and laugh about those things
<ogra> print it out :) put it in a frame :)
<ogra> and tell your grandchlidern you knew the asignee who later was beaten to dead by a raging crowd of screensaver users
<\sh> hehehe
<ajmitch> hm, I see elmo was in #u-d only 8 hours ago
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well I think I'm on elmo's shitlist :)
<\sh> ogra: i mean it's serious..who would pay for injuries with the screensaver? think about cramps or heartattacks
<ajmitch> bddebian: possibly :)
<\sh> or not with the screensaver, when the screensaver pops up
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> new business model..."Insurance against Injuries and fatal attraction when the Ubuntu Fireworks Screensaver pops up with full sound enabled"
<dholbach> good night everybody, i'll see you tomorrow
<\sh> cu dholbach
<ogra> i hope you recognized the bug is closed already :)
<ogra> ciao dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<\sh> ogra: what was the number again? i will grab it :)
* ajmitch has a growing rage against win XP
<dholbach> night \sh, night ogra, night ajmitch
<ogra> 15284
<\sh> why can't i print into a pdf from firefox?
<\sh> with evolution this works
<ogra> do it oldschool, make a ps :)
<\sh> ogra: yeah..but this is strange..when u can print from gnome directly into a pdf..but not from mozilla
<\sh> or firefox even
<ogra> file a bug :)
<\sh> correct way
<\sh> because ps2pdf doesn't work
<\sh> who is iwj?
<\sh> who is iwj@ubuntu.com?
<\sh> diziet?
<ajmitch> yes
<\sh> night folks...
<tseng> doko: will you fix rrdtool?
<doko> tseng: ?
<Nafallo> do we have lighttpd in breezy somewhere?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-18
<LaserJock> eddyp: the most recent one is what's on revu.tauware.de
<LaserJock> but make sure to refresh your browser
<eddyp> LaserJock: which one?
<LaserJock> which one what?
<eddyp> the one at the top?
<eddyp> LaserJock: I have given an example link
<LaserJock> revu only shows you the latest one on the main page
<eddyp> LaserJock: but how do you determine which is the "main page"?
<siretart> eddyp: the details.py has links to all uploads regarding that particular sourcepackage
<LaserJock> eddyp: the main page is revu.tauware.de
<eddyp> siretart: hi
<LaserJock> yeah, but make sure to refresh you browser
<eddyp> siretart: is the page in question (glest-data) updated so that the top links are the most recent ones?
<LaserJock> eddyp: look at the dates
<siretart> eddyp: not quite, you need to select the most high upload id (upid). all uploads are linked from that page
<siretart> eddyp: in this case, the most recent upload of glest-data was 2869
<siretart> read: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2869
<LaserJock> newest is last on the page
<eddyp> this is really counter intuitive
<siretart> yes, the main page shows only the most recent one. right
<eddyp> please define "main page"
<siretart> eddyp: yes, a bit. this was done this way so a reviewer can easily switch to every upload
<siretart> mainpage is http://revu.tauware.de/index.py
<siretart> aka 'upload index'
<eddyp> ok, I see
<eddyp> a search box wouldn't be bad
<eddyp> siretart: BTW, I managed to make glest work
<eddyp> the clean rule works now, the package compiles
<eddyp> is a little nasty due to the retarded jam build system, but I managed to workaround it
<eddyp> that's why I am looking for the data package
<eddyp> :)
<hikenboot> i get the following error RuntimeError: Installed debootstrap is older than in the previous version! (0.3.3.0ubuntu3~dapper1 < 0.3.3.0ubuntu3)       trying to run ./update inside ubuntu-meta-1.24 directory any ideas
<hikenboot> join #/
<LaserJock> hikenboot: do you have the backports repo enabled?
<hikenboot> umm...no let me try that
<LaserJock> well, you don't want it
<LaserJock> but that ~dapper1 version is from -backports
<LaserJock> so it's getting it from somewhere
<hikenboot> removing my version of debootstrap and reinstalling without that repo enabled
* ajmitch gets hating on exim4
<hikenboot> LaserJock, now i am getting a new error ./update: line 2: exec: germinate-update-metapackage: not found
<hikenboot> any ideaas
<LaserJock> do you have germinate installed?
<hikenboot> yes
<hikenboot> maybe its looking for a source package?
<ajmitch> you have /usr/bin/germinate-update-metapackage ?
<hikenboot> no
<hikenboot> says germinate is the newest version
<ajmitch> from dapper or edgy?
<hikenboot> I assume its daper because thats whats enabled
<hikenboot> in apt
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi
<hikenboot> I just did apt-get remove germinate....apt-get install germinate...still no germinate-update-metapackage in /usr/bin
<hikenboot> is /usr/bin/germinate-update-metapackage a link to /usr/bin/germinate?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> btw, I just updated the MOTU Science lists
<Adri2000> LaserJock: you're in the science team ?
<bddebian> Adri2000: He is the master of it :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: And what makes you think I care?? ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: just leatting you know ;-)
<bddebian> :0)
<LaserJock> letting, rather
<Adri2000> LaserJock: is there something planned for bug 35922 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35922 in gnome-chemistry-utils "Package outdated, please update to 0.6.0/0.7.0" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35922
<ajmitch> hikenboot: germinate-update-metapackage was only added in edgy
<Adri2000> i wanted to package that needs a newer version of gcu
<LaserJock> well, as soon as there is a 0.6 or 0.7 package then we can include it
<Adri2000> +a software
<Adri2000> ok, just needing someone to make the package
<LaserJock> pretty much
<LaserJock> we have 0.4 something and it it isn't even in Debian
* bddebian started to do it but it needs some other packages
<Adri2000> erf :/
<bddebian> Something chem-data or something
<hikenboot> ok so what does someone do thats building it on a system with 6.0.6LTS?
<Adri2000> bddebian: doesn't seem to be a chem data package in dapper, maybe in edgy ? or isn't it yet packaged ?
<bddebian> Adri2000: Not yet packaged
<Adri2000> ok
<LaserJock> oh wait
<LaserJock> apparently it's going to be in Debian soon
<LaserJock> sweet
<LaserJock> check out the News on http://debian.wgdd.de/
<bddebian> Suuuure
<bddebian> Someone said that about bkchem too ;-)
<Adri2000> eh cool
<LaserJock> well, if it's in debichem
<Adri2000> and gchempaint was the soft i wanted to package :p
<LaserJock> that's good news
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> are you a chemist?
<Adri2000> no ^^
<LaserJock> ok, just wondered
<Adri2000> at school i study chemistry/physics but it's not the main subject
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I'm doing mmy PhD in Physical Chemistry
<bddebian> Adri2000: BTW, which list, the bug list or the packages list?
<LaserJock> bddebian: was that to me?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: wow, that's not the same level as me :p
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, sorry
<LaserJock> bddebian: package list
<bddebian> Please tell me maxima isn't on it ;-)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> no, it isn't
<LaserJock> but I sort of wish it was
<LaserJock> because maybe a fix would be in there
<bddebian> Egads 117 freakin' packages :-(
<LaserJock> well, don't worry too much about it
<LaserJock> that's normal
<LaserJock> we just need to look at high priority items
<LaserJock> and merges/syncs
<bddebian> What determines your priority? :-)
<LaserJock> if I like the package or not
<LaserJock> just kidding
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> I try to look at the debian changelogs
<LaserJock> to see if they are fixing bugs or just a minor version bump, etc/
<LaserJock> so I was working on a list
<LaserJock> but I don't know that we'll get all that far
<LaserJock> python-scipy and python-numpy should get done
<bddebian> Yes maaster.. :-)
<LaserJock> I also found quite a number of NEW and non-free->free packages that aren't in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> hehe
<jrib> ok so I've been trying to package gaim-latex.  However, I came across a debian mailing list that discussed some security vulnerabilities.  Is anyone familiar enough with this to discuss it with me?
<LaserJock> heh, that kinda sounds like a "no"
* bddebian is clueless about everything :'-(
<LaserJock> jrib: you are looking for people familiar with gaim-latex or security in general?
<jrib> yeah, well basically the plugin lets you send text of the form $$ fancy latex in here $$, and if the recipient has the plugin, the recipient's computer will execute the latex stuff
<LaserJock> ah, so the problem being that somebody could put in malicious latex
* LaserJock considers LaTeX in general to be a little malicious ;-)
<jrib> yeah, exactly.  That is the reason the debian maintainer decided not to package it
<LaserJock> is there a way to have it just pop up something so it isn't just automatic
<LaserJock> like sending a file over IM/IRC
<jrib> That is one option, or you could do the transformation before you send it and just have gaim send an image instead.
<jrib> But as it stands, despite the fact the plugin does blacklist some commands, should I not package it in its current state?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not really sure what to say
<LaserJock> but pitti is Ubuntu's security guy so you might ask him
<jrib> LaserJock: ok, thanks
<LaserJock> jrib: I mean, latex seems fairly harmless by itself
<bddebian> I think Yagisan and ajmitch have decent security backgrounds as well?
<LaserJock> but I know you can have embedded code and stuff in latex
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> Damn I can never figure out what to work/concentrate on.. There is soo freakin' much to do :-(
<bddebian> LaserJock: I had someone contact me about MOTU mentoring.  How scary is that? :-)
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I think you make a great motu mentor
<bddebian> Hah, but thanks
* welshbyte seconds that ;)
<bddebian> Heya welshbyte, what's been happening?  Need some work? ;-P
<bddebian> Gah, gotta get the kids in the bath, bbiab
<welshbyte> bddebian: ello... too much has been happening, haven't had any time to do ubuntu-y stuff lately... i almost forgot how much happens in septembers :/ what needs doing?
* LaserJock resists the urge to yell out "Maxima" :-)
<welshbyte> LaserJock: don't you dare :) that package is just a time sink for me
<Fujitsu> Hahaha.
<welshbyte> anyway I'm just a newbie and the maxima problem needs the wisdom of an elite MOTU guru, like bddebian :)
<LaserJock> amen
<zul> evening
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> how is it going LaserJock
<LaserJock> oh, it's going
<zul> das is good
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out where I've spread out all my files over 5 different computers
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks. Was the changelog text the only thing you changed? :)
<LaserJock> and trying to get them all in one
<zul> dont you use something like nfs?
<tseng> nfs sucks with laptops
<tseng> and travel
<zul> something like nfs not actualy nfs
<tseng> webdav with zeroconf is rad
<LaserJock> actually I just have files spread all over the place :-)
<tseng> for quick file drag and drop in nautilus
<LaserJock> I'm working on trying to figure out something smart to do
<LaserJock> at one point I was thinking of using rsync
<zul> there is a howto of putting your home directory in rcs
<LaserJock> well, I don't really need maybe that much
<LaserJock> I've got a lot of data
<LaserJock> but I work from a lot of different computers
<zul> if you want something easy i would go with rsync
<LaserJock> something like nfs wouldn't be bad
<LaserJock> I've read a very little bit about unison
<LaserJock> which seems kinda cool
<LaserJock> ok, this might be a really dumb question
<LaserJock> but is lenovo a company or a product line?
<lifeless> company
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> cause I was looking for thinkpads
<lifeless> IBM sold thinkpad to lenovo
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> how interesting
<LaserJock> ah, now I think I remember something about that in the news
<zul> yeah they did that a while back
<Kamping_Kaiser> imb will be dropped from all product names soon iirc, its just goign to be lenovo
<ajmitch> hi zul
<zul> hey ajmitch how goes it
<ajmitch> good :)
<zul> goodie gum drops
<LaserJock> bah, it's not like I'm going to be able to buy a new laptop for some time
* LaserJock is drooling over sabdfl's laptop
<zul> LaserJock: ditto with kid on the way
<bddebian> Anyone know if we are supposed to be including .la files still or not?  I thought I had heard that we are not any longer
<LaserJock> I really don't know bddebian
<LaserJock> well, I've already got a laptop (Toshiba) but it is *supposed* to be the wife's
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<welshbyte> hey ajmitch, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey welshbyte
* welshbyte pokes bddebian
<bddebian> welshbyte: Yo
<welshbyte> bddebian: weren't you asking if i needed work to do earlier? :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Yea, fixed maxima yet? ;-P
* welshbyte cries
<bddebian> :-)
<welshbyte> there's nothing wrong with maxima, it's all GCL's fault ;)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Oh, did you ever get anywhere with azureus?
<welshbyte> that's another humungous job that's over my head
<welshbyte> i think
<bddebian> Oh, hmm
<welshbyte> there's another angle i want to come at that problem from (building it with the older libraries provided by the current edgy version of eclipse), but it'll have to wait til i have more time
<welshbyte> unless someone else wants to try ;)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Nah, I'm too stupid :-)
<welshbyte> hm way past bedtime, g'night guys
<crimsun> TheMuso: yes, but keep an eye out for the remaining .so in the lib
<TheMuso> crimsun: ?
<bddebian> crimsun: BTW, I don't even hold a freakin' candle to you
<glick> hello
<glick> how can i request a package?
<glick> by that i mean a package that im responsible for?
<Hobbsee> glick: package it, stick it on REVU, and ask people to review it?
<glick> oh
<bddebian> Hello yusufm
<yusufm> Hi
<yusufm> bddebian: I was just replying to your email
<LaserJock> well that royally sucked
<LaserJock> I tried to run ghemical and the display was all weirded out
<LaserJock> and then it totally froze my machine with a black screen
<Toadstool> re
<bddebian> yusufm: Great :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: The latest one?
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<LaserJock> bddebian: latest what?
<LaserJock> this is on dapper
<bddebian> LaserJock: Oh
<Toadstool> hey bddebian
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you obviously need to upgrade to the latest & best edgy
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> yusufm: Are you reading the Debian New Maintainers Guide or the Ubuntu packaging guide?
<yusufm> Yes, they alistre on my
<yusufm> bddebian: Sorry, synaptics bug :)   They are on my list
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, yeah, I have 1 machine running edgy
<LaserJock> but you'd think stuff would sorta work on dapper once in a while ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> haha
<Toadstool> :)
<Toadstool> uhuh, my renter needs his computer :(
<Toadstool> cya
<bddebian> yusufm: Great
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if it's because I have an ATI card
<LaserJock> when in doubt, blame it on ATI ;-)
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: ATI cards make great wish bones
<bddebian> heh
<lotusleaf> just find a friend, grab an end, and the one holding the largest piece of the ATI card wins
<LaserJock> well, this is an integrated thingy on my laptop
<lotusleaf> the loser gets to buy the new nvidia card
<LaserJock> I kinda need to keep it I think
<LaserJock> I've got another computer with an nvidia card so perhaps I'll try on that
<chillywilly> yo
<LaserJock> hiya chillywilly
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<chillywilly> Packers got spanked and it wasn't nice because my mom had taken scotty to the game...they suck this year
* bddebian gives up on the Eagles
<LaserJock> hmm, did the Mannings go at it yet?
* LaserJock is too busy to watch football anymore :/
<bddebian> LaserJock: Last week I think
<LaserJock> who won?
<bddebian> Dunno :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: lotta help you are :p
<bddebian> I keep telling you people that I'm useless :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Colts beat the Giants
<LaserJock> bddebian: ah, not so useless after all :-)
<Burgundavia> who is William Grant?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: Fujitsu
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: ping
<Fujitsu> Pong.
<Burgundavia> damn, that was fast
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Fujitsu> Am I guilty of something?
<Burgundavia> geda, did you do all of it?
<Hobbsee> it's a nice AU timezone
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: probably.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, yes.
<Burgundavia> should I blame/credit you for it in the UWN?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, if you want to.
<Burgundavia> I would love to
<Fujitsu> Ooh :)
<Burgundavia> in case any of you slackers miss the UWN, I always credit the people who did the work
* Hobbsee is a slacker
<Burgundavia> gets away from the whole "code is impersonal stuff"
* Hobbsee does nothing :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: hahaha
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you sound like someone we know..
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: I command thee to sign up, right smart
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what, bddebian?  true that
<Hobbsee> perhaps i'll swap roles with bddebian
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: hehe
<ajmitch> please no
* ajmitch should probably do some work on ubuntu tonight
<Burgundavia> and as I see all subscribes and unsubs, I will know if any of you slackers haven't signed up
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, last time somebody asked who `William Grant' was, it was Mithrandir accusing me of something bad... That was scary >_<
<Burgundavia> and I *will* chase you down
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: Mithrandir doing that is better than keybuk doing the same :P
<Burgundavia> ;)
* Hobbsee hides from Burgundavia 
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, probably... But that was SCARY!
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: subscribe to what?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: don't worry, I'm still waiting for people to report massive libgphoto2 breakage to me with pitchforks & torches
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: there isn't place within Ubuntu I can't find you
<Burgundavia> the ubuntu-news mailing list
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: Mithrandir doesnt seem that scary
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i think you'd be fairly safe while looking at all the xfce stuff.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, he is!
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu:  you have never met the man
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: neither have i
<Fujitsu> Of course not.
<LaserJock> Tollef?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes..
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: is there a reason why geda has 9 different source packages?
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, who knows... Probably not.
<LaserJock> he seems pretty low key, kinda like mdz
<Burgundavia> keybuk is the only truly excitable one
<Fujitsu> But he accused me of making a nasty mistake. Being accused by Hobbsee is one thing, but by an ultimate-person like Mithrandir is another entirely.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, ?
<Burgundavia> but that is mostly bouncy energy
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.  i thought i was big and scary too!
* Hobbsee makes a note to become more big and scary than Mithrandir 
* Fujitsu runs.
* BigScaryHobbsee attacks Fujitsu with her long and pointy stick!
<Fujitsu> But it's not release-manager Hobbsee, so not too scary.
<BigScaryHobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah well....
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah, iwj is a little frightening to me, but he's cool too
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: I see that upstream uses different tarballs and release dates
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: iwj is just odd
<BigScaryHobbsee> iwj has to be crazy, to deal with firefox, etc
<Burgundavia> no, he is paid to do that
<LaserJock> and write dpkg ;-)
<BigScaryHobbsee> Burgundavia: that doesnt change it.
<bddebian> OK I haven't been paying attention. Am I getting dissed?
<LaserJock> no
<crimsun> you don't diss deities.
<Burgundavia> you know, canonical now has 3 dpkg and 1 smart developer on staff
<Fujitsu> crimsun, certainly.
<Burgundavia> and 2 former dpls
<Fujitsu> DPLs?
<ajmitch> debian project leaders
<Burgundavia> debian project leader. Both benc and iwj used to lead debian
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: don't forget apt
<LaserJock> I think that's once of Mark's major successes
<LaserJock> s/once/one/
<Burgundavia> part of the reason why some debian people have issues with Ubuntu is how completely Mark cherrypicked the best and the brightest
<BigScaryHobbsee> which was their choice, of course
<Burgundavia> yes, but still
<lotusleaf> Mark > Jesus
<Burgundavia> if you look on their mailing lists, mdz, keybuk, mjg59 (who doesn't yet work for them), etc.
<Burgundavia> they were all extremely active and are not now
* Fujitsu runs quickly from the debate which will now ensue.
<bddebian> OK, I am taking my old useless ass to bed.  Gnight folks
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<Fujitsu> Bye, bddebian :)
<BigScaryHobbsee> bddebian: bye!
<lotusleaf> the way I see it, no one really has issues with Ubuntu, they only have issues with their perception of Ubuntu
<LaserJock> well..
<LaserJock> if I had spent years working on a few specific packages in Debian
<LaserJock> and then had a bunch of crazy MOTUs running around doing who know's what to them
<LaserJock> I'd get a little nervous ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and they'd still carry your name, of course
<LaserJock> yes :/
<ajmitch> and you'd be getting bugreports/flames for stuff that you didn't do
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<LaserJock> and wondering why only hear from them when they've broken something
<LaserJock> s/why/why I/
<crimsun> no prob, upstream devs get that, too.
<LaserJock> of course
<crimsun> "why does this debian package not work?!"
<ajmitch> crimsun: which is why debian developers are encouraged to have some contact with upstream
<LaserJock> but I can understand where they are coming from, that's what I'm saying
<ajmitch> for good reason
<ajmitch> eg for some of the packages I maintain in debian, I've known upstream for awhile
<ajmitch> including staying at their place, etc :)
<LaserJock> and I can see that if I'd been working on Debian for some time and this derivative takes of like wild fire
<LaserJock> I'd tend to want to think a little "yeah, but it's really just Debian"
<ajmitch> especially when some of those motus are pretty slack at getting those fixes back to debian
<ajmitch> and the DD only finds out a few months later
<Fujitsu> Hence the DCT.
<ajmitch> which for all the nice things I hear about it, still needs people to do the work
<LaserJock> hence teaching MOTUs how to play nice :-)
<ajmitch> like anything
<LaserJock> I honestly don't see how DCT is going to work
<ajmitch> it'll only work if people can put in effort for a thankless task again
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> on top of their normal MOTU load
<ajmitch> currently I'm mainly doing ubuntu stuff on things I maintain in debian anyway
<ajmitch> so it's not so much of a hassle with me
<ajmitch> except that I get to deal with upstream devs more :)
<LaserJock> I try to at least somewhat keep track of 400+ packages
<ajmitch> you're brave
<LaserJock> there's really no way I can know each of the corresponding Debian maintainers well
<BigScaryHobbsee> true
<LaserJock> or they packages
<Fujitsu> How many are there with Ubuntu changes at the moment?
<BigScaryHobbsee> lots :P
<LaserJock> something like 150
<Fujitsu> .....
<Fujitsu> A lot more than that.
<LaserJock> out of my 400
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> there are over 1000 total for universe I think
<Fujitsu> Yeah, something like that..
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/unimultiverse-all.html
<LaserJock> gives an idea
* ajmitch needs to file a sync asap
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, why?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: security vulnerability in one of my debian packages
<Fujitsu> So almost exactly 1000 with Ubuntu changes...
<BigScaryHobbsee> ajmitch: meet the requestsync script :P
<ajmitch> which I've updated in sid
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, ah.
<ajmitch> BigScaryHobbsee: I was just fetching the latest version of that
<BigScaryHobbsee> ajmitch: TheMuso, pitti, and myself fixed that :)
<BigScaryHobbsee> it now works when you dotn have a MTA installe
<BigScaryHobbsee> d
<LaserJock> phew
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: what?
<LaserJock> I feel better now that you're regular Hobbsee
* Hobbsee waves her long pointy stick at LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'm still big and scary, dont worry about that
<ajmitch> haha
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: can testify
<ajmitch> sure, real big ;)
<Hobbsee> well.  scary
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> all I fear are Hobbsee's IRC abilities ;-)
<ajmitch> she's really quite a sweet & charming young lady ;)
<Hobbsee>  * LaserJock has been removed from #ubuntu-motu.  Requested by Hobbsee: ( What, these ones?)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: really now?
<ajmitch> of course
<Hobbsee> right
* Hobbsee suspects that if she ever made it to a conference, everyone would think she was crazy, and chuck her out
<ajmitch> you'd fit right in
<Hobbsee> hmmm...
<chillywilly> lalala
* chillywilly hugs ajmitch 
<ajmitch> uh oh
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> some day I'll make it to that island....
<lotusleaf> Hobbsee: especially if the m$n butterfly costume is worn
<chillywilly> and then you'll be sorry ;)
<Hobbsee> lotusleaf: um?  okay then :P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: trust me, you'd do fine?
<LaserJock> argg -?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> there were also a more women than I would have expected at the 2 conferences I've been to, Paris and Ubucon
<Burgundavia> still absymally low numbers, however
<Hobbsee> hadnt really thought of that.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah
<Burgundavia> there were lots of women at the mall helping man the booth, but they were from the more general computer club
<Hobbsee> ah
<chillywilly> tired...
<chillywilly> night all
<Burgundavia> ok, well, maybe there were not "manning" the booth ;)
<LaserJock> haha
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> now i wasnt goign to point that out :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you'd better be at mountain view..
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: why so?
<ajmitch> because
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's very close to exams
<ajmitch> that's what I feared
<LaserJock> oh darn
<Hobbsee> i think it's about...5 days
<LaserJock> I'm scheduled to give a presentation on the 7th
<Hobbsee> and i still dont have a passport, as i've been lazy.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that'll cost you
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you can get a passport in a week or two
<LaserJock> let's see, that should be tuesday
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: is that all it takes?  nice!
<LaserJock> so I can drive over Tuesday night
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: standard here is within 10 working days
<LaserJock> wow
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: right.  i thought it took months
<ajmitch> I doubt it'll take that long in .au
<LaserJock> I had to pay extra to get mine in 2 weeks
<LaserJock> normally 1 month here I think
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, 10 working days here if you pay extra. Generally 2-4 weeks.
<LaserJock> how much does it cost there?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/queries/officeturnaround.aspx
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> So I had it wrong. 10 working days, or 2 or so days if you pay extra.... >_>
<Fujitsu> I last got one 3 years ago, though.
* ajmitch last got one last year
<ajmitch> I haven't used it for awhile, not since july :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> ok, I'm heading out, I'll be back later to do some reviewing & fixes :)
<LaserJock> I used mine to get a new driver's license when I got back from Paris :/
<Hobbsee> bye ajmitch!
<Fujitsu> Bye, ajmitch.
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder what tritium has been up too
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Afternoon.
<lotusleaf> what if day and night overlapped and curled up in a laughing god's lap of luxury?
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu, lotusleaf, LaserJock
<lotusleaf> hi dholbach
<lotusleaf> every day with ubuntu is a good day ;)
<dholbach> how's it going?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: pong ( very late )
<dholbach> It's the REVU day, right? :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | [Edgy MoM]  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | Happy REVU day!
<dholbach> woohoo
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> yes, REVU day has come about
* ajmitch is finally in front of a real live ubuntu box again to do some work
<ajmitch> hey elkbuntu
* LaserJock gasps
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yeah, I have to use win xp at work :)
<elkbuntu> heh, i have to use winxp to scan something in more than black & green or pink & white... stupid epson :(
<imbrandon> heya dholbach elkbuntu
<imbrandon> ajmitch: finly get an edgy box ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no, I walked home :P
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well at least I have to use OS X
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ahah hehe
<ajmitch> where I've had edgy all along
<imbrandon> LaserJock: heh i've been trying to get debootstrap working in fink so i can make a ubuntu chroot on osx
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: never mind, got it
<imbrandon> on an off
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: okie
<LaserJock> imbrandon: oh, that would sooo totally rock
<imbrandon> i had to do a fresh install ( or better wording choose to ) of knot 3 last night on what was voyager ( now horatio ) becouse i decided to corrupt the fs
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> probably could have saved it but i had everything backed up so it was no biggie
<LaserJock> I'm still waiting to get MS Office on my mac a work after my reinstall :/
<LaserJock> yuck, I hate having to rely on that stupid stuff
<imbrandon> noeoffice ?
<imbrandon> neooffice*
<imbrandon> and on my blog i have a link to mac native ( no X required ) koffice binarys ;)
<imbrandon> although i wouldent use the koffice ones there is still a few issues ( not in production any ways )
<LaserJock> well, I really *have* to have MS Office
<LaserJock> wonderful docs people make that only work in Office and Acrobat ;-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: btw, I had MOTU Science added as the initial bug contact for science apps (400+ source packages)
<imbrandon> heh i barely use an office suite so neooffice ( oo.o for mac ) works fine for me, the most i do with it is a resume' update or such
<dholbach> LaserJock: manually?
<LaserJock> dholbach: I just gave the list to kiko and he did it for me
<ajmitch> dholbach: all psyched up for reviewing today?
<dholbach> ajmitch: abso-lutely :)
<LaserJock> ok, time to go guys
<ajmitch> 23359 ajmitch   16   0 1259m 907m  19m R   31 23.0 224:07.41 /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin
<LaserJock> cya in the morning
<ajmitch> woohoo
<ajmitch> go firefox!
<ajmitch> bye LaserJock :)
<dholbach> LaserJock: sleep tight!
<imbrandon> later Laser_away
<ajmitch> ok, who wants to review my package? ;)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: btw i tried digicam after the updates , everything seemd to work ok, i dident do anything exaustive
<ajmitch> imbrandon: excellent, thanks for testing
<imbrandon> after i finish rebuilding my pbuilders i'll do some revuing
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> doing that now in the background
<imbrandon> i had to search for an hour to find the cdrom with my gpg key on it , lol
* ajmitch submits a comment on revu!
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I don't think we need olive on REVU - it's in the archive now
<dholbach> yeah, that's what I'll do latet too
* ajmitch archives
<dholbach> weed out all the old package on revu which didn't change for 4 months, but got a response already
<ajmitch> that would be awesome
<ajmitch> I wonder if I can throw together a quick script on tiber to get the list
<imbrandon> that would rock
<imbrandon> make going through them alot easier
<dholbach> it'd be nice if we had revu on launchpad with bzr integration and all
<dholbach> so if it's just a quick fix for something, you could make the change in bzr, etc
<dholbach> mucho faster :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: it is
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/products/revu/+branches
<ajmitch> but I presume you mean a bit more than that ;)
<dholbach> no, I mean the packages on revu
<ajmitch> that would be a little harder
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch> but will come with personal package archives
<Laser_away> maybe we need a REVU-Hacking Day before Edgy+1 gets far
<ajmitch> and I know that they plan to fold revu-like functionality into LP
<ajmitch> yeah, last comment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2183 was in march - no further uploads or changes
* ajmitch will archive that now
<imbrandon> ryanakca: ping
<imbrandon> ryanakca: unping , nvm sorry
<Fujitsu> Has somebody considered changing REVU to use a sane timezone?
<dholbach> what timezone would that be?
<Fujitsu> UTC?
<ajmitch> why do you find the timezone to be a problem?
<dholbach> there's always "data center time" which is in most cases not your time, or UTC, or something else :)
<Fujitsu> UTC is more useful than UTC-4, I'd say.
<dholbach> I think it doesn't matter much-ly
* ajmitch wonders whether to archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2064
<ajmitch> iirc there were some disagreements with that package
<dholbach> it'd be nice to get glest in
<dholbach> looks like valid to archive
* ajmitch wonders if we can get krb5-auth-dialog in :)
<ajmitch> since it's probably full of mistakes
<dholbach> is that your package?
<ajmitch> yep
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> i'll make a note to look at it
* ajmitch uploaded it partly to test REVU at the time
<dholbach> oh?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: if you get time can you test build libmtp, i got it all fixed up but i get a stange warning in debuild
<ajmitch> yeah, we were having some fun with uploads about that time..
<ajmitch> imbrandon: revu-report?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: sure
<ajmitch> building now
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> me and Riddell looked at it for a few hours and couldent figure it out
<ajmitch> what was the strange error?
<imbrandon> something aobut the so not being installed but it is
<ajmitch> I'll check it out locally then
<imbrandon> its build in the same way libnjb ( same upstream authors and same code base ) so i riped their build system
<ajmitch> might build a little faster on my box :)
<imbrandon> you might peek at that ( its in main )
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> dangerous
<imbrandon> i'm still re-creating my pbuilder or i would give you the exact error
<ajmitch> I'm running it in mine
<ajmitch> ok, it built on tiber
<ajmitch> so... what's the issue? :)
<imbrandon> just a sec lemme look at the log
<ajmitch> whiprush: you listened to that novell open audio interview?
<imbrandon> wow ok its not showing the warning i was getting in the revu-report or build logs maybe it was localized to me
<ajmitch> yeah it built fine for me locally
<imbrandon> ajmitch: in that case can you revu it as normal then ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so tell me, has the ABI stayed backwards & forwards compatible?
<imbrandon> yea it hasent change much over the last year at all
<ajmitch> or should you use -V with dh_makeshlibs? :)
<ajmitch> 'much' != 'at all'
<imbrandon> true
<ajmitch> eg a program whether a program compiled against this version will work with libmtp.so.2.0.0
<imbrandon> yes it will
<ajmitch> you sure?
<imbrandon> the API dosent change ( but its not in stone as with any api )
<ajmitch> there were no symbols added in 2.1?
<imbrandon> so -V might be betetr
<Gloubiboulga> morning
<ajmitch> I said compiled, so ABI :)
<imbrandon> heya Gloubiboulga
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ahh yea my mistake i was thinking api
<Gloubiboulga> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> i dont know tbh i'll have to look
<imbrandon> whats the -V vs -a ?
<imbrandon> strict(er) versioning ?
<ajmitch> -V is for passing the version string
<ajmitch> -a is a debhelper option
<imbrandon> so -V would make the programs compiled against this force a recomile if it changes versions ?
<imbrandon> ( to the new version )
<ajmitch> it means that packages compiled against this version would get proper dependencies
<imbrandon> ok that sounds like a good thing(tm)
<ajmitch> what you put in shlibs, packages that use libmtp pick up for ${shlibs:Depends}
<imbrandon> ahhhhhhhhhh ok , duh
<imbrandon> nvm i get it now, man i was dense there for a sec
<imbrandon> ok ok i see what your saying my bad , yea
<imbrandon> yea in that case -V would probably be the correct thing to do, i'll change that in a few when this pbuilder is done
<imbrandon> man i killed the room ( or eveyone is busy REVUing )
<imbrandon> heh
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: no, it was your puppy-eating ways ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hrm i got pbuilder reinstalled and built, and built libmtp localy again and get that warnings , here i pastebin'd the relvent parts http://pastebin.ca/174812
<imbrandon> #
<imbrandon> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find any packages for libmtp.so.2
<imbrandon> #
<imbrandon> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency information for shared library libmtp (soname 2, path libmtp.so.2, dependency field Depends)
<imbrandon> and libtool: install: warning: `../src/libmtp.la' has not been installed in `/usr/lib'
<imbrandon> ( i added the -V too btw )
<ajmitch> great
* imbrandon might just used cdbs and say fsk it
<imbrandon> ajmitch: any idea what those warnings are ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: is the shlibs still correct?
* ajmitch has seen that before at some point
* Fujitsu looks for something to do.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: sill right as in ?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: REVU day ;) and bugs hehe
<imbrandon> ajmitch: dostent the dh_sh* take care of that ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I'm not a MOTU, so REVU's out of the question... And bugs?
* Fujitsu shudders.
<Fujitsu> Toooo many.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no
<ajmitch> imbrandon: dpkg-deb -I libtmp2_version.deb shlibs
<ajmitch> s/tmp/mtp/
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/libmtp$ dpkg-deb -I /var/cache/pbuilder/edgy/result/libmtp2_0.0.18-0ubuntu1_i386.deb shlibs
<imbrandon> libmtp 2 libmtp2 (>= 0.0.18)
<imbrandon> looks to be
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> could it be those warnings are when the -dev package is being built ( the warnings are on the example bins and the so isnt installed in the -dev )
<ajmitch> quite likely
<imbrandon> so in that case is it normal ?
<ajmitch> where are those example binaries?
<imbrandon> usr/bin
<ajmitch> no, which package?
<imbrandon> -dev
<imbrandon> the -dev
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> the reg package only has the so
<imbrandon> everything else is in the -dev
<imbrandon> doc's example bins etc
<ajmitch> the so.X, I hope
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> since the .so symlink should be in -dev :)
<imbrandon> correct
<imbrandon> yup i said it wrong but yea
<imbrandon> -rw-r--r-- root/root     98004 2006-09-18 02:06 ./usr/lib/libmtp.so.2.1.1
<imbrandon> ^^ hte reg package
<ajmitch> yep
<imbrandon> the*
<imbrandon> that would explain why i dident get the warnings at first ( i dident install the example bins when i first made the package untill Riddell  sugested so )
* ajmitch watches his network connection get hammered
<imbrandon> so the question is now, what do i do about it .... leave out the examples or ignore the warnings
<ajmitch> ignore warnings, I think :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: from what ( network hammered )
<ajmitch> copying a disk image from my flatmate's new box
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<ajmitch> dd & netcat are great
<imbrandon> heheh yea
<ajmitch> he has xp, xp doesn't handle having new hardware very well ;)
<imbrandon> i seen some fancy shell scripts to do some cool backup stuff with dd and netcat
<ajmitch> so in with the live cd
<ajmitch> even piping it through gzip on the other side, it still saturates 100Mbps network
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> he has a nice little 4600+
<imbrandon> sweet
<ajmitch> dual-core x2
<imbrandon> very cool
<ajmitch> yeah, I've only got the 4200+ :)
<imbrandon> give me a shell account heheh just teasin
<ajmitch> though my box has a lot more RAM, & disks :)
<ajmitch> mine isn't for gaming..
<imbrandon> really though i want to get pbuilder access to a faster ppc , my lappy just dont cut it for anything semi big
<imbrandon> 800mhz ppc with 640mb of ram does the job in  a pinch but still sucks for things like kdelibs or amarok
<ajmitch> yeah I wish I had access to a ppc box
<imbrandon> i was looking at suse openbuild systems or whatever , it said it can build ubuntu packages too but i dont know the details
<Burgundavia> you could ask canonical to fund something like that?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: i was thinking about it, a build farm for the community / MOTU's
<imbrandon> like what suse does
<Burgundavia> suse is scrabbling for developers, so they are trying to entice them in with shiny kit
<imbrandon> theirs suposidly builds for any arch and distro but i havent looked into it alot
<imbrandon> just read the webpage
<imbrandon> heh, figured it was something like that
<imbrandon> i have no intrest in suse but would happly build stuff on their machines ;)
<imbrandon> ( as long as i can have a edgy chroot )
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ok so ajmitch you think that looks good enough to upload ? that seems to be the only issue ( the warning )
<imbrandon> other than that Riddell and me and you have eyeballed it pretty good
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch is no expert on libraries :)
<imbrandon> heh me either ;) /me looks arround the room dholbach or Gloubiboulga ? how are yall with libs ?
<ajmitch> from what I can see it's fine now
<imbrandon> i was looking though it is almost identical to libnjb except the -docs arent split out into their own package
<imbrandon> ( and the examples are installed )
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> well i'll upload it then and archive it on revu, seems good enough for a first upload
<Gloubiboulga> imbrandon, I can have a look at your lib when I'll be back (if Daniel doesn't look at it while I'm away)
<Gloubiboulga> bbl
<imbrandon> Gloubiboulga: ok
<imbrandon> sniznit i didnt backup my dput.cf /me looks at it to make sure the default is sane
<ajmitch> firefox is sucking so much RAM it's not funny :)
<imbrandon> heh beta2 ?
<ajmitch> beta 1 actually
<ajmitch> 1350MB according to top
<imbrandon> iwj updated in the archive, but i doubt its any better on ram
<imbrandon> jez
<imbrandon> over a gig for ff
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> i think ff just says total_ram/3 is how much it maloc's
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i would bet its somewhere in the code
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> it's getting close
<ajmitch> maybe I should just get more RAM ;)
<Lathiat> you new zealanders are breaking things again
<imbrandon> ok i uploaded libmtp , but i left it on revu for the moment for Gloubiboulga  to take a final look incase something derastic comes up
<ajmitch> Lathiat: what's new?
<Lathiat> NZ telecoms royally screwed somethign in their network over there :), 70ms to 900ms in 1 hop ftw
<Lathiat> heh
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> that's pretty average for telecon
<Lathiat> and someone i know who has 220mbit through connect has lost half of it hah
<ajmitch> someone probably tripped over a cable again
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> "oops"
<imbrandon> lol
<Lathiat> "i just wanted to vacuum.."
<Lathiat> "didnt seem important"
<imbrandon> every USP in NZ starts beeping all at once
<imbrandon> UPS*
<Lathiat> UPS ?
<Lathiat> heh
<imbrandon> i think i'm FINALY getting used to irssi
<imbrandon> heh
<Lathiat> irssi is good
<ajmitch> irssi is very useful
<ajmitch> to think that I used to use nothing but xchat
<imbrandon> cept irssi-prox kills konversation with segfaults but i know what the issue is ( bitlbee not irssi-proxy )
<imbrandon> well i found a goox mix, irssi rnning on the file server with a /load proxy enabled
<imbrandon> so i can use konversation when i want
<imbrandon> but most of the time use irssi now via ssh
* StevenK sighs about bloody first years.
<StevenK> And now I'm alone in the lab. Much better.
<imbrandon> StevenK: hehe
<imbrandon> better than when i started on irc back in 97ish ( mIRC only )
<StevenK> Now that's quiet, hopefully my headache will go away, and I can get some work done.
<StevenK> Unfortantely, it seems this work involves writing JavaScript.
* Fujitsu attacks Launchpad with a big attacking thing.
<Fujitsu> Deranged deranged deranged Launchpad.
* Fujitsu doesn't particularly feel like looking through https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+packagebugs manually.
<ajmitch> hoping that your headache will go away when writing javascript is slightly futile
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, definitely.
<StevenK> ajmitch: :-P
<imbrandon> and you wanted to get RID of a headache ?
<StevenK> Now that the noisy first-years have buggered off, I have half a chance.
<ajmitch> StevenK: don't worry, I havre to write php
<StevenK> ajmitch: I'm not sure which is worse.
<Fujitsu> Poor ajmitch :(
<imbrandon> heh i like php much better than java*
<Fujitsu> Should I file about people's +packagebugs under Launchpad or Malone?
<Fujitsu> *file a bug about
<StevenK> After the semester break, I'll be writing ASP.
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> that is sick
<Fujitsu> .....
* StevenK is not looking forward to that.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, no.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, don't do it.
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Heh
<imbrandon> my last contract job was converting a bunch of asp to php
<imbrandon> leaste it was asp 3.0 not asp.net
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, goodo.
<ajmitch> StevenK: so, why are you doing this?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Core subject at uni.
<Fujitsu> ASP is a CORE SUBJECT!?
<Fujitsu> Can't you call the UN or something and report the uni for crimes against humanity?
<ajmitch> StevenK: why are you studying?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: bwaha
<StevenK> ajmitch: The CEO where I work values university very highly, and so I have been pushed into it.
<ajmitch> I see
<StevenK> Not that getting a degree is a bad thing.
<Fujitsu> But ASP... That's just wrong.
<StevenK> I actually learnt that JavaScript has regular expressions last week, too.
<Fujitsu> Ah!
<Fujitsu> And you wonder why you have a headache.
<StevenK> No I don't.
<StevenK> I know *exactly* why I have a headache.
* StevenK gets a very evil idea.
<imbrandon> uht oh
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> patch on bug 55462 looks interesting
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55462 in gnucash "Gnucash crash" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55462
<Fujitsu> What idea, StevenK?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Replacing 50 lines of 6 if/else if/else blocks with a for loop using eval.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, er, yeah.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, it's headache time!
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's a patch supplied by upstream, so it should be sane
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It will be if I have to debug it.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, that's actually from upstream? That's odd.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why?
<ajmitch> read the changelog & see why
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I just did. I didn't realise it had come from upstream.
<ajmitch> they had files in the build that implemented the same widgets (I think) as gtk+
<Fujitsu> That was pretty silly of them.
<ajmitch> it's quite common
<lotusleaf> clamav was updated but not to recent version? hmm
<ajmitch> people do that before they're included in gtk+
<lotusleaf> doh, no changelog ;P
<Gloubiboulga> imbrandon, your lib looks fine imo
<ajmitch> oh good, gnucash uses no patch system, we can update it as-is (and file upstream in debian)
<imbrandon> Gloubiboulga: thanks, its uploaded , i'll archive it on revu now ( and wait for the NEW que )
<Fujitsu> And wow, NEW is almost empty now.
<Fujitsu> Just stuff from REVU, basically.
<seaLne> how do you see the contents of NEW?
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't new versions of packages appear on LP fairly quickly? It's been half an hour since my last two merges were uploaded... They appeared on my +packages, but the new versions haven't appeared in the distro.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: after they pass the buildd's
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, my others have appeared before then.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu...
<TheMuso> The packages shoudl appear before they get built.
<TheMuso> I think publisher runs happen every hour.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why did you get gnucash uploaded before g-wrap was synced? :)
<ajmitch> I understand that it's in dep-wait, but it's annoying
* ajmitch is trying to test the fix mentioned earlier :)
<surimi> hi
<surimi> a font manager for Gnome that existe since march 2006 http://font-manager.blaubeermuffin.de/ no deb found. If someone could integrate it in Universe... There is no Font Manager in Gnome at this moment.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, why's that annoying?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: because I can't build, test & upload without far more effort :)
<Fujitsu> True...
<Fujitsu> Syncs are really taking a while to be processed these days :(
<ajmitch> yeah
<StevenK> Fujitsu: If you want delays, go through Debian NM.
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> Then sync requests will look to be blazingly fast.
<Fujitsu> Er, no thanks.
<ajmitch> says he who set new records for NM
* StevenK denies everything.
<Fujitsu> ?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I went from applicant to developer in four days.
<Fujitsu> Woah.
<StevenK> Which is entirely unheard of.
<Fujitsu> You don't say.
<Fujitsu> How'd you manage it?
<StevenK> Pure luck.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I managed to get a very well respected DD as my advocate, and one of the best AMs, and I happened to be approved a few days before elmo did a run of creating accounts.
<Fujitsu> AM?
<StevenK> Application Manager
<StevenK> They're a member of the NM process who see if you're ready to be a DD, as it were.
<StevenK> Check if your key is signed, ask you a whole bunch of questions, and see what work you've done before.
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<gnomefreak> anyone care to shoot me :( someone is bugging out about gnucash :(
<Fujitsu> What about it?
* StevenK buggers off home.
<slomo> crimsun: ping?
<\sh> moins
<slomo> hi \sh
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<ajmitch> what's up?
<jsgotangco> ahh just escaped from IE hell
<ajmitch> heh
<jsgotangco> i cant believe i moved into a place where IE is the only browser you can use at work sheeshhh
<ajmitch> that's just evil
<Fujitsu> That's wrong...
<ajmitch> I use win XP, but I use firefox 99% of the time
<Fujitsu> How do they restrict that?
<ajmitch> and most of my work is done in emacs on a debian box with ssh
<jsgotangco> Fujitsu: i dunno, we ride on the mother company's link...they say the proxy doesnt work well with linux...i find it silly...its only a browser, even ISA server doesnt restrict such
<Fujitsu> Proxys can't work differently with different OSs!
<ajmitch> ISA server is an evil piece of work
<jsgotangco> does anyone know if the web mail access of lotus notes can be used with firefox?
<ajmitch> my laptop can't get an outside connection going properly
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, it can do very very evil things.
<ajmitch> iirc firefox could use the proxy, but everything else was meant to use the evil little isa firewall client
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: i thought ISA server doesnt require a client installed anymore, unlike the old Proxy Server 2
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: this one does, and the server is SBS2003
<jsgotangco> ickkkk
<Fujitsu> Yuck yuck yuck.
<jsgotangco> shall i declare independence?
<AnAnt> ping ajmitch
<ajmitch> pong
<AnAnt> ajmitch: can you clear apcalc upload ?
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: thanks for advocating acon
<ajmitch> done
<AnAnt> ajmitch: thanks
<AnAnt> ping Gloubiboulga
<AnAnt> ping lionelp_
<AnAnt> ping dholbach
<dholbach> AnAnt: pong
<AnAnt> dholbach: may I ask you to REVU a package ?
<dholbach> i was just about to go for a dogwalk - can you drop me a mail?
<dholbach> then I'll do it later, when I get back
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> ok super
<AnAnt> thanks
<xerxas_> I have a package that builds in pbuilder, installs cleanly, and I seem to be able to use it
<xerxas_> what's next ?
<xerxas_> how do I make it make it's way in edgy ?
<Fujitsu> Submit it to REVU.
<xerxas_> ok
<xerxas_> is there a revu doc ?
<Fujitsu> wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<Kagou> hub: after contacting official debian maintainer of dcraw, he have completely rebuilt package, as we have discussed. The new package will be available soon.
<hub> so you'll take of the merge from debian in the future?
<xerxas_> Fujitsu, I cannot manage to login in revu
<xerxas_> I should use the same password I use on launchapd ?
<tseng> no
<Fujitsu> xerxas_, no.
<xerxas_> and the login is my e-mail address ?
<Fujitsu> xerxas_, why do you need to log in?
<xerxas_> oops
<xerxas_> I think it's written on the wiki page
<xerxas_> lemme check
<xerxas_> Fujitsu,  I want to login to upload a package
<Fujitsu> xerxas_, you don't need to. Look at the wiki page.
<xerxas_> I don't see where I can upload on http://revu.tauware.de/index.py
<Fujitsu> xerxas_, you don't. Please read the wiki page.
<xerxas_> ok
<xerxas_> using dput
<xerxas_> ok
<xerxas_> thanks
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<xerxas_> Fujitsu,  ok , I have dputted my changes file
<Hobbsee> make sur eyou use dput revu whatever.changes, or change your dput.cf
<xerxas_> it uploaded all necessary files
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, it defaults to revu.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no it doesnt.
<Hobbsee> well, i really doubt it does anyway
<Fujitsu> xerxas_, OK, check REVU in a few minutes.
<xerxas_> ok
* Hobbsee double checks
* Fujitsu does so too.
<Hobbsee> default_host_main = ubuntu
<Hobbsee> in the source
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Hobbsee> glad to know that i havent been uploading to the wrong place by accident
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you wuold have changed your dput.cf when first uploading to revu
<Fujitsu> Hahaha.
<Fujitsu> I must have, yes.
<xerxas_> I didn't change my dput.cf , is it ok ?
<Hobbsee> i mean, i get the right accepted mails to know that it's right, but even so
<Hobbsee> xerxas_: want to pastebin the entire message it gave you, as you were uploading?
<xerxas_> why not
<xerxas_> http://fr.pastebin.ca/175019
<Fujitsu> xerxas_, you need to change dput.cf, as specified on the wiki.
<xerxas_> ok
<xerxas_> this "default_host_main = revu" .
<xerxas_> ?
<Hobbsee> xerxas_: you've uploaded to the wrong place, you need to follow the wiki
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> and the unsigned uploads = 0, or whatever it says
<Fujitsu> I can just see a Soyuz bug letting that through.
<xerxas_> ok
<xerxas_> done
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no, it rejects it.  i've tried.
<Hobbsee> when uploading to main by accident
<Fujitsu> Obviously :P
<xerxas_> Upload package to host revu
<Fujitsu> xerxas_, that's better :)
<xerxas_> it should appear on http://revu.tauware.de/ ?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Fujitsu> What's the name of it, xerxas_?
<Hobbsee> eventually
<Hobbsee> xerxas_: are you in the group in the last link in the topic?
<xerxas_> it's pymsn or python-msn (respectivly source and binary)
<xerxas_>  http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy  here ?
<xerxas_> no , I'm not
<xerxas_> oops , sorry , I am
<shenki> hello
<xerxas_> Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe  (Approved)
<Fujitsu> Hi shenki.
<xerxas_> Hi
<shenki> I was wondering, how would I go about telling pbuilder to use a local package if it cant find it in the archives? I'm trying to build metacity with compositing, however, it needs to use a package which isn't in the archives - ive packaged, built and installed it locally
<Hobbsee> shenki: use sudo pbuilder login, copy the source into the build directory (it tells you) and the deb that you want, and run debuild (install devscripts first)
<shenki> ah, cheers Hobbsee
<xerxas_> Fujitsu, Hobbsee  I still don't see my package in revu
<Fujitsu> It's there.
<xerxas_> ok
<xerxas_> thanks
<xerxas_> oops, yes, it is
<xerxas_> !
<Hobbsee> ah
<shenki> just to claify, do you mean copy the metacity source to the /var/cache/pbulider/build/##### dir?
<Fujitsu> shenki, yes.
<shenki> cool :)
<Hobbsee> shenki: yep :)
<xerxas_> I need to remove the .bzr directory ?
<xerxas_> I forgot to run lintian on it
<xerxas_> can I re-upload a package ?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<xerxas_> rm .bzr ; debuild -S -sa ; dput *changes ?
<Hobbsee> yes.
<Hobbsee> i think so
<Fujitsu> You may need a -f on that dput.
<xerxas_> ok
* Fujitsu runs off to bed now.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Wimp!
<Fujitsu> ...?
<StevenK> Going to bed before midnight! I mean, really.
<shenki> hehe
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<shenki> you've got school tomorow, hey Fujitsu?
<Fujitsu> I've got parents :(
<Fujitsu> shenki, no.
<Fujitsu> It's school holidays.
<shenki> oh, rly?
<Hobbsee> heh
<shenki> lucky you
<Fujitsu> Not really...
<shenki> I was just about to boast about how im on uni holidays as of today :P
* Hobbsee cant remeber the last time she went to school before midnight
<Hobbsee> uni holidays here too
<Fujitsu> I need to study for exams in 4 weeks.
<shenki> heh
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, school before midnight?
<shenki> hehe, I laughed Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: er, to bed before midnight
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I thought so.
<Hobbsee> i'm tired, leave me in peace :P
<shenki> I thought you were making a joke :)
* Fujitsu pokes Hobbsee with his not-so-long pointy stick of DOOM.
* Hobbsee BURNS the stick, and Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Gah. Of course.
* Fujitsu attacks Hobbsee with his ultimate lowliness.
<Fujitsu> What /are/ those buildds doing...
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> probably buildign openoffice, why?
<Fujitsu> I've just had a build waiting for over 4 hours, and there haven't been any KDE things lately that I've seen.
<xerxas_> Fujitsu,  my orig.tar.gz file needs to contain the .bzr ?
<xerxas_> does the diff removes it ? (I still see the warning from lintian in revu )
<Fujitsu> Well, goodnight everybody!
<Hobbsee> night Fujitsu!
<Fujitsu> Goodnight!
<sistpoty> gn8 Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty
<Fujitsu> 'night, sistpoty.
<Fujitsu> (and hi)
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<xerxas_> need to disconnect for 10 minutes ...
<xerxas_> bye
<matid> Hi, I've got a question - what does it mean if a package in multiverse repo doesn't have a source package?
<matid> I tried: apt-get source program_name and got 'Unable to find a source package for program_name'
<matid> It installs just fine with apt-get install
<seaLne> maybe the source package is different to the binary package name, what was it?
<pirast> matid: i think that in multiverse there are also packages which are not being compiled on the ubuntu buildservers so that there is no sourcecode available
<pirast> mhm
<pirast> but im not sure..
<pirast> what package was it?
<matid> festalon
<pirast> matid: i can get the sources w/o problems..
<matid> I know
<seaLne> me to
<Hobbsee> !info festalon
<ubotu> festalon: NSF player for OSS (/dev/dsp). In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.2.4-1 (dapper), package size 32 kB, installed size 140 kB
<matid> It just sprung to my mind that I might have not enabled multiverse *source* repositories
<Hobbsee> matid: you likely dont have the corresponding deb-src line for multiverse
<pirast> matid: that would be the next thing that i would have assumed :-)
<matid> I've just reinstalled my system and I forgot to tweak it ;)
<matid> Thanks
<sistpoty> anybody here who wants a package reviewed? *g*
<seaLne> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3170
<matid> If I want to update the package from version 0.2.4 to 0.5.5 should I create the package from scratch or should I reuse the previous one?
<matid> And are there any guidelines on how to do it?
<clandestino> Maybe the wrong forum. But does somebody know python-dbus? I need some help..
<slomo> clandestino: depends... what is the question? :)
<clandestino> I got help in #dbus. Thanks anyway. Might have more questions : )
<sistpoty> seaLne: the libewf-dev package misses some headers...
<sistpoty> seaLne: if you look at the shipped header file, it includes headers that are not part of the package, so you can't compile anything with it
<sistpoty> seaLne: also, it might be a good idea to rename the binary package libewf to libewf-bin (since it's not a library)
<seaLne> sistpoty: thanks
<sistpoty> matid: you could try to reuse as much as possible... e.g. copy the debian-directory from the old package into the new source, but you'll have to be careful about what needs to be adjusted ;)
<seaLne> sistpoty: the header files it includes sound a bit generic names that might conflict?
<sistpoty> seaLne: you could put all the headers to /usr/include/libewf?
<seaLne> how would things know to look there?
<sistpoty> seaLne: they wouldn't, but anyone who compiles s.th. would need to set the include-path by himself
<seaLne> the reason i'm packaging libewf is for sleuthkit, where the new version uses it (nastily included in its tgz)
<sistpoty> seaLne: then you'll need to do s.th. like -I/usr/lib/libewf for sleuthkit. I doubt it would work out w.o. using a subdirectory for the headers due to the generic names
<seaLne> thanks, that makes sense
<seaLne> sistpoty: if you have a chance i've made those changes http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3175
<slytherin> Is there any way to request for a particular app's latest version even though the app is not in debian unstable?
<sistpoty> seaLne: good job! you'll just need another advocate ;)
<sistpoty> slytherin: you could file a bug on launchpad
<slytherin> sistpoty: I could. But is there any policy for such package uploads? I want latest version of gnomebaker in edgy. But there could be many such requests. So who makes the decision?
<seaLne> depends if someone takes the time to package it
<seaLne> there is no harm in having the bug
<sistpoty> slytherin: any motu that triages the bug... however if the package is properly maintained in debian, it's unlikely that we'll go ahead of debian
<slytherin> seaLne: sistpoty: Thanks for your explanation.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty
<seaLne> bddebian: hiya have time to look at updated libewf package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3175
<seaLne> or actually can you advocate?
<bddebian> seaLne: Probably, give me a bit
<slomo> crimsun: ping?
<lfittl> hello everybody
<dholbach> so how's the REVU day going?
<sistpoty> hi lfittl
<dholbach> hi lfittl
<dholbach> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
<lfittl> hi sistpoty, dholbach :)
<sistpoty> oh, not too much revu traffic here till now... ;)
* lfittl is free for reviews for the next 6 hours :)
<bddebian> w00t, go lfittl :-)
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<dholbach> apcalc reviewed
<dholbach> doing elinks-full
<bddebian> sistpoty: BTW, on the .la files issue, I am still getting different answers.  You'll notice a comment on one of the uploads from dholbach that they are not needed.  Speaking with Keybuk last night on IRC, he says they should be included ;-P
<dholbach> (did pymsn, libjingle0.3 before)
<sistpoty> bddebian: ok, thanks for asking around there
<sistpoty> bddebian: hehe, I just actually looked at one .la file, my guess is that it's needed if you use libtool to link against a library. My best bet is that it should be better in the -dev package (like pkg-config stuff and similar things)
<slomo> bddebian: it really depends on the package... if it used pkg-config it's save to drop the .la files
<slomo> bddebian: otherwise it could be that you still need them... and then you might need to relibtoolize the package to get rid of spurious dependencies
* dholbach looks at farsight now
<slomo> bddebian: and dropping them from an already existing package will cause you some transition pain
<superm1> hey are bddebian or imbrandon around right now?
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<bddebian> superm1: No, I ran away :-)
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> hey I'm looking to become an ubuntu member, and then looking to join MOTU
<bddebian> superm1: Great
<superm1> I was wondering if you could come to community council meeting for tomorrow?
<sistpoty> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey bddebian & sistpoty
<lfittl> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi lifeless
<Toadstool> uhuh
<Toadstool> hi lfittl :)
<lfittl> :)
<bddebian> superm1: I am swamped with work but I will try
<superm1> okay great, thanks
<superm1> I gotta finish up a wiki page now:)
<LaserJock> how's REVU DAY??
<AnAnt> dholbach: thanks
<AnAnt> dholbach: need to understand your comment elinks-full
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> AnAnt: Oh, I meant to ask you.  Can elinks be dropped in favor of your elinks-full package or are they seperate now?
<AnAnt> bddebian: separate
<AnAnt> bddebian: elinks has elinks & elinks-lite
<bddebian> OK
<geser> when doing a merge from a package ending in -Xbuild1 should the changelog entry for the rebuild be taken over to the new package?
<AnAnt> bddebian: mine provides an elinks-full which uses packages that are in the universe
<AnAnt> bddebian: I did that because elinks source is in main, hence cannot depend on stuff in universe
<AnAnt> bddebian: and the features that are compiled in elinks-full need those universe dependencies
<bddebian> OK
<LaserJock> geser: for a merge? might as well, although it isn't a terribly important changelog entry
<fbond|away> if anyone wants to take a look at sclapp i'd be appreciative: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2596
<AnAnt> bddebian: you'll REVU it ?
<geser> it is more a sync but the debian package need a small fix to build
* Gloubiboulga checks fbond package
<bddebian> AnAnt: If I can yes.  I'm a bit swamped at work today :-(
<fbond> Gloubiboulga, thanks
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: thanks for acon
<AnAnt> bddebian: oh btw, acon is on the queue now
<Gloubiboulga> AnAnt, no problem
<AnAnt> ping dholbach
<dholbach> AnAnt: pong
<superm1> speaking of today being REVU day, I added an update to the mythtv package with a very minor debdiff to fix ubutnu gnome-screensaver support and mmx support.  Can I be added up on to the queue of stuff to be looked at today?
<bddebian> AnAnt: Great, congrats
<AnAnt> dholbach: I need to discuss elinks-full issues
<dholbach> AnAnt: I'd prefer it, yes
<AnAnt> dholbach: what discussion at ubuntu-devel is that ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: one I'd like you to start
<AnAnt> dholbach: huh ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: two times the same source in ubuntu means: two times merging efforts, two times security updates, etc
* sistpoty is off again
<sistpoty> cya
<dholbach> (not to mention archive stuff, mirrors, etc)
<bddebian> Laterz sistpoty
<dholbach> it might not be a big issue, but it's better to discuss it before
<AnAnt> dholbach: what is ubuntu-devel ?
<dholbach> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> a mailing list
<AnAnt> dholbach: anyways, how can I use pkgconfig to link against python ?
* Toadstool checks rrdweather
<dholbach> sorry, if I was not specific enough
<AnAnt> dholbach: am I (as an LP member) registered to that list ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: no, but you can do it on http://lists.ubuntu.com
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> dholbach: anyways, how can I use pkgconfig to link against python ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: you can probably forget that comment
<AnAnt> dholbach: why ? I was really waiting for someone to tell me how to detect which python version to link against
<dholbach> i thought we could sneak something like   `pkg-config --libs python`   in, so you wouldn't have a static   -python2.4
<dholbach> but the .pc files are all versioned too
<AnAnt> oh, but does python  have .pc file ?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> /usr/lib/pkgconfig
<AnAnt> dholbach: I am looking there, nothing
<Toadstool> quick question, there's no need to declare a dependency on a priority: required package, right?
<AnAnt> dholbach: at least in dapper it doesn't exist
<dholbach> AnAnt: you have python*-dev installed?
<AnAnt> dholbach: nope, ok, I got it
<crimsun> slomo: pong
<AnAnt> dholbach: so there's no solution for python except that patch I've done, right ?
<slomo> crimsun: problem already solved itself :) but did you hear something about snd-ymfpci already?
<dholbach> AnAnt: not sure
<AnAnt> dholbach: I've asked on #python & here & #elinks about a way, but I got no answer
<dholbach> maybe you can put that in the post to ubuntu-devel too?
<AnAnt> dholbach: sure, so apcalc is now on the queue ?
<dholbach> yes, it's uploaded
<crimsun> slomo: (pun intended?) no
<dholbach> AnAnt: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/apcalc/2.12.1.2-0ubuntu1
* dholbach looks at cmph
<slomo> crimsun: not intended, no... a user had a weird problem with quodlibet that was meant to be fixed with 0.23.1 and i wanted to ask you whether you will update it :) but then it worked for the user again with 0.23 *shrug*
<AnAnt> dholbach: wierd, I searched in new queue,it isn't there
<crimsun> slomo: sure, I'll just request a sync (I'm waiting for 0.24, but its ETA is shaky)
<crimsun> rather, I'll ACK the sync request
<dholbach> AnAnt: it's not in NEW, the package existed in Ubuntu before
<AnAnt> oh, ok
<AnAnt> well, gotta go
<AnAnt> later
* dholbach -> break
<bddebian> dholbach: Not allowed ;-P
* dholbach slaps bddebian
<Nafallo> lol
* bddebian gets no love :-)
<LaserJock> with comments like that, no ;-)
<crimsun> deities get no love.
<crimsun> nor raging ubuntuaholic motus.
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> nor uberMOTUs
<crimsun> who's the ubermotu? hobbsee?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Isn't crimsun a core-dev?
<LaserJock> you know full well you are the only try uberMOTU
<bddebian> s/try/true/
<LaserJock> s/try/true/
<bddebian> ;-P
<crimsun> no way, I'm a nobody, and I love it that way :D
<bddebian> crimsun: No, you are THE MAN! :-)
* LaserJock fades away into nobody land 
<xerxas> dholbach:  ?
<xerxas> pymsn's code is ready
<dholbach> xerxas: super
<xerxas> I need to do a bzr update ?
<dholbach> xerxas: I'm about to take a walk - push it to bzr please and I'll have a look later
<dholbach> xerxas: ask in #ubuntu-dektop or #ubuntu-motu, but I'll leave for a bit now
<xerxas> I mean the upstream code of pymsn
<xerxas> did you got it ?
<dholbach> talk to asabil
<dholbach> he told me he didnt push his newest changes to upstream bzr
<fbond> Gloubiboulga, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy would seem to conflict with /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz on my edgy system
<fbond> which should I follow?
<Gloubiboulga> fbond, I don't see a conflict...
<xerxas> dholbach:  he did , 5 minutes ago
<xerxas> in his branch
<dholbach> xerxas: no, didn't get those yet
<dholbach> xerxas: and I'm about to leave for a bit
<fbond> from /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz:
<fbond> *** You don't need X[BS] -Python-Version fields. You don't need ***rn*** debian/pycompat. Just remove all of these.                 ***
<dholbach> xerxas:    bzr pull   should get you his newest changes
<xerxas> dholbach:  ok , good walk then !
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> see you
<bddebian> later dholbach
* bddebian hugs the master
<xerxas> fbond:  will remove it
<fbond> xerxas, will remove ... those lines from the README.gz, or the conflicting advice in NewPolicy?
<xerxas> don't know , you think it's needed ?
<fbond> think what is needed?
<fbond> I'm not following.
<xerxas> ok sorry, I thought you were talking about my package
<Gloubiboulga> maybe python-support doesn't need this
<xerxas> I use an XB-Python-Version in my package
<Gloubiboulga> I'm not really at ease with this new policy yet
<fbond> Apparently, it doesn't ... but maybe it should be there anyway.
<fbond> I wish someone would dictate one of python-central or python-support, to start with.
<fbond> :)
<LaserJock> well, doko once suggested that we use python-central
<LaserJock> for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and since he wrote and and is the Ubuntu python guys ...
<crimsun> It's good to know both, but I generally use python-central.
<crimsun> use whatever LaserJock, the raging ubuntuaholic motu, uses
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> well, I like how with python central you don't have to change where things are installed
<fbond> And if you go the python-central route, you don't have to resolve conflicts in documentation, I guess....
<LaserJock> for python apps anyway, not sure if that's also the case for python libs
<fbond> Does it make a difference?
<LaserJock> does what make a difference?
<fbond> most python "apps" are thin wrappers around calls to python modules
<fbond> in my experience :)
<LaserJock> well, private vs. public modules vs extentions
<LaserJock> they are each treated a little differently
<fbond> hmm.  dunno anything about extensions.
<fbond> ls
<fbond> sorry :)
<fbond> Gloubiboulga, what is the preferred way to specify GPL v2 only (for upstream maintainers)?
<Gloubiboulga> fbond, you can have a look at quodlibet license, it's v2 only IIRC
<lfittl> can somebody with the necessary rights please remove the uploaders advocate on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3159
<LaserJock> ugg, I didn't think you could even do that :/
<bddebian> You can remove your own advocacy can't you?
<lfittl> bddebian: I am not the uploader ;)
<dholbach> so how's the REVU going?
<lfittl> dholbach: it's just a loot of packages, and most have not been updated for many months.. ;)
<dholbach> yeah, we should be more rigorous about people not updating their package after comments were sent
<dholbach> and somebody should fix 'glest'!
<lfittl> I have sent mail to some people now, and if they don't respond this week I will archive the packages
<dholbach> I think two months is even enough
<lfittl> dholbach: Giuseppe wrote 6 days ago that he will start working on it again soon, should we really just fix it and upload it?
<lophyte> hey guys
<dholbach> I think it'd be cool
<dholbach> credit everybody and his/her changes in debian/changelog and get it in
<lfittl> dholbach: k, will have a look at it after doing the blender merge from debian
<dholbach> ahhhhh blender again ;-)
<lionelp> Toadstool: I corrected rrdweather if you have time to review it again. Thanks
<lfittl> dholbach: yep, but now in universe :)
<dholbach> ahh ok
<ajmitch> morning all
* dholbach cleaned some old packages out
<Nafallo> moring andrew :-)
<Toadstool> lionelp: ok, advocated ;)
<lophyte> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey lophyte
<lionelp> Toadstool: thanks
<lionelp> someone else to review rrdweather ?
<lophyte> thanks for the quick response about mentorship :)
<phanatic> good evening
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<Adri2000> does it sound good english : "Giplet can also be set to check every so often in case the IP address changes." ?
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I'd probably go with "Giplet can also be used to check periodically from IP address changes."
* ajmitch wouldn't
<ajmitch> s/form/for/
<ajmitch> sorry
<ajmitch> s/from/for/
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock :)
* bddebian gives ajmitch a big smooch
<Adri2000> ok thanks
<ajmitch> well that spoilt my enthusiasm for reviewing today
<bddebian> :-)
* ajmitch checks on REVU day progress
<ajmitch> still quite a long list
<Adri2000> is the B-D python always needed for python apps ? i have already python-gtk2-dev as B-D which depends on python
<ajmitch> bddebian: you haven't even reviewed my stuff :)
<ajmitch> Adri2000: it seems common to build-dep on python-all-dev now
<Adri2000> okay
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hi, thanks for the typo correction
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why would you submit to REVU?  You are THE MAN? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: no
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yes
<bddebian> ajmitch: You are probably more throrough than any of us :-)
<bddebian> Uhm thorough
<ajmitch> doesn't mean that I checked that package before uploading
<Adri2000> Toadstool: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3182 :p
<Nafallo> anyone use gajim with jabberd2 or wildfire servers? :-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: Just you apparently ;-P
<Nafallo> bddebian: no, I'm on ejabberd and jabberd ;-). I'm trying to fix bug #44321
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44321 in gajim "gajim goes psycho when someone approves me" [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44321
* ajmitch waits in vain for a comment on his package from bddebian  :)
<Toadstool> Adri2000: two more things to fix and it's good to go for me ;)
<Q-FUNK> howdy
<Q-FUNK> I got around signing the CoC today.
<Q-FUNK> validated on launchpad.
<dholbach> good night everybody
<dholbach> happy REVU day
<Q-FUNK> I'm just wondering how to get my existing debian packages assigned to me on launchpad too?
<lfittl> gn8 dholbach
<Q-FUNK> n8 dholbach
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: you can become bug contact for them
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: how?
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/planner/+subscribe
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: do I get upload on the same packages too?
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/<sourcepackage>/+subscribe
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: What do you mean by that?
<Q-FUNK> afaik ony planner is in main in ubuntu.  the rest are in universe.  do I get to upload my own packages myself for those?
<Adri2000> Toadstool: in progress (just a few minutes)
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: No, not "just like that" - you have to go through the same process as any other uploader, though as somebody who knows his way around in packaging, you have a shorter way.
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: you can get packages sponsored though
<Q-FUNK> ok
<dholbach> (until you're an Ubuntu member (in the CC meeting), became ubuntu-dev member (universe+multiverse) (TB meeting) and ubuntu-core-dev member (for main+restricted) (TB meeting again))
<bddebian> Later dholbach
<bddebian> ajmitch: There is nothing my dumb ass could tell you :-)
<Q-FUNK> is there a checklist for those steps that I can follow?
<dholbach> I thought you were in a CC meeting already?
<dholbach> s/were/had been
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<Toadstool> Q-FUNK: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes and a few wiki pages too
<Q-FUNK> ages ago, but ... was it mako or jdub that kept on saying that something was missing on my wiki, without precising what.
<dholbach> sorry, that's not the right page - i wanted to put it into the browser
<Toadstool> :)
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: the most important part is having worked in teams in ubuntu and have people who can back you up in the meeting
<dholbach> that makes it easy to get a seamless ok
<Adri2000> Toadstool: uploaded
* Nafallo thought dholbach where heading to bed ;-)
<dholbach> Nafallo: I thought that too
<Toadstool> Adri2000: ok, i'll have a look in a few minutes
<Nafallo> :-)
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: ok
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> merges.ubuntu.com/e/ doesn't have either ejabberd nor erlang
* Nafallo investigates
<Toadstool> Adri2000: advocated
<Adri2000> thank you Toadstool :)
<lionelp> bddebian: would you have time to review rrdweather (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3179) ?
<Nafallo> damn! erlang-nox must be stuck in new :-/
<Q-FUNK> ok.  subscribed myself to the pts for all my packages.
<Q-FUNK> how do I get myself assigned to them?
<bddebian> lionelp: Not currently but I will as soon as I get home. Ok?
<lionelp> bddebian: sure
<ajmitch> bddebian: I don't care
<bddebian> ajmitch: About what?
<ajmitch> about whether you think you're good enough to review
<ajmitch> you want me to upload this package as-is? :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Of course, I trust you implicitly :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'll take a look when I get home.
<bddebian> Later gang
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's cdbs, nice & simple :)
<bddebian> Sweet :-)
* Nafallo tries to build erlang on i386
<lophyte> there we go.
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody have cool techniques for installing a file with different permissions?
<micahcowan> LaserJock, not sure what you mean by that.
<micahcowan> The install command lets you specify permissions... :?
<LaserJock> well, I need to install some files with a non-644 permission
<micahcowan> Such as, a 600 permission? ...oh, you mean, they're part of a package, but you want the permissions to be different?
<LaserJock> I could exclude them from dh_fixperms but then they aren't installed as root, etc.
<LaserJock> yeah, I want to install them 640
<micahcowan> It's a package you have control over?
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm upstream :-)
<Riddell> anyone know how to use a gpg agent with debuild so I don't have to type my password every time?
<LaserJock> that'd be nice, I don't know how to do it though
<LaserJock> I have a hard enough time figuring out how to get do it with ssh
<Nafallo> Riddell: apt-get install seahorse in GNOME ;-)
<Riddell> signing 65 language packs is a bit tedious
<Riddell> Nafallo: how do I tell debuild to use that?
<Nafallo> Riddell: doesn't need to, seahorse does all the dirty work :-)
<Nafallo> slomo might know more since he actually maintains the application here in Ubuntu-land :-)
<slomo> yes?
<lfittl> gn8 everybody
<Nafallo> slomo: Riddell wants to knwo what magic seahorse does I think :-)
<Nafallo> s/wo/ow/
<slomo> rewriting gpg.conf and setting the gpg-agent in there
<micahcowan> LaserJock, dunno... would it be awful to use chmod after dh_install/dh_fixperms is done?
<LaserJock> micahcowan: yes, Kamion already rejected it ;-)
<micahcowan> Did Kamion suggest an alternate course of action? :)
<micahcowan> (apparently not)
<LaserJock> sorta
<Riddell> slomo: any howtos?
<Riddell> slomo: I'm running seahorse but I don't see how to use it with debuild
<slomo> Riddell: apt-get install seahorse and then add seahorse-daemon to your session ;)
<slomo> and then debuild or better debsign will use it
<slomo> well, everything calling gpg in one way or another will use it then
<Riddell> hmm, seems to keep needing the password
<Riddell> even if I untick the "always ask" box
<micahcowan> LaserJock, the non-debian makefile does the "right thing", probably via install, right?
<slomo> Riddell: it will ask for the password once
<slomo> and then caches it for the amount of time you told it
<micahcowan> What'd you mean by saying it wouldn't be installed as root if you exclude it from dh_fixperms? Isn't /everything/ installed as root?
<Riddell> yes, it doesn't need the password, but it does need me to agree on the dialogue
<slomo> hmm, doesn't for me
<slomo> weird
<LaserJock> micahcowan: dh_fixperms does that
<Riddell> this is over ssh -X but there shouldn't be a difference I'd have thought
<LaserJock> micahcowan: and this isn't a program exactly, so no Makefile
<slomo> Riddell: shouldn't... no... maybe restart seahorse-daemon after unchecking the checkbox
<Riddell> and debuild just gives me "gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use"
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> probably doesn't work with ssh -X then
<slomo> i always disabled it over ssh
<micahcowan> LaserJock, could it go in the postinst?
<LaserJock> micahcowan: well, initially I did a chmod in postinst, but that is what Kampion didn't like
<micahcowan> And, what was the "sorta" solution?
<LaserJock> one was to use dpkg-statoverride
<micahcowan> isn't that for /users/, not /builders/?
<micahcowan> oh, you mean after you build your own .deb? That's awful, IMO
<micahcowan> debuild should create exactly what is needed, at all times, imo.
<LaserJock> no, I think the idea would be to run dpkg-statoverride in postinst or something like that
<micahcowan> Still, I hate that idea.
<micahcowan> That seems a lot more broken than chmod. Though, I could see if someone said the chmod should go in the rules file...
<micahcowan> (not that I've done much in the way of creating packages, but still...)
<LaserJock> well, I could do chmod in rules
<LaserJock> but dh_fixperms will override it
<micahcowan> Would that be objected to?
<micahcowan> not if you place it after dh_fixperms?
<LaserJock> dh_fixperms is very late in the package building process
<LaserJock> I suppose
<LaserJock> I wonder if that would be ok
<micahcowan> gnome-games has a chmod in a post-install target, in rules, right after dh_python.
<Fujitsu> Anybody have an idea what's with bug #54188? It was uploaded 4 days ago, but never appeared.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54188 in 915resolution "auto configuration doesn't work anymore" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54188
<LaserJock> micahcowan: ok, cool. I'll check it out
<Fujitsu> I was just doing myself, was looking for who did the sync, and found this already-`fixed' bug about it.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-19
<micahcowan> The post install also seems to do a series of chmods on score files that go in /var/games.
<LaserJock> it looks to me like gnome-games doesn't do any chmoding on files in /usr/share/
<LaserJock> which is what dh_fixperms will change
<micahcowan> This is true: it chmods /usr/games and /var/games files.
<micahcowan> still, note the /methods/ it uses for permissions: both an explicit rule, and in postinstall.
<LaserJock> yeah
<micahcowan> I can't really think of a more elegant way to do that: debhelper isn't actually meant to handle every situation, just the common ones, right? So I don't get whta's wrong with simply supplementing its behavior with more explicit commands... do you think chmod in rules might fly?
<LaserJock> well, I know it is used
<micahcowan> ^_^
<LaserJock> I'm just a little concern about *where* I'm putting it
<LaserJock> I've seen it in the install: rule
<micahcowan> Is there more detailed documentation about debhelper besides the manpages and maint-guide?
<LaserJock> well, I'll just put it after dh_fixperms and see if it works and then float that by Kamion
<micahcowan> yeah, and I'd get more suggestions from him this time if he doesn't like it. Something besides dpkg-statoverride... or an explanation as to why that's better :p
<Q-FUNK> could someone sync 'planner' from debian?
<Q-FUNK> the build failure reported in ubuntu was fixed in debian ages ago.
<Fujitsu> I'll file a request to have it synced.
<Q-FUNK> thanks :)
<Fujitsu> (after checking it does actually build)
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: is it a new upstream?
<Q-FUNK> nope
<slomo> Fujitsu: it's in main btw
<Q-FUNK> we've had 0.14 for ages
<Fujitsu> Darn.
<LaserJock> ah, but we have 0.13
<Q-FUNK> bulding broke after the new python policy and then was fixed
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: just find a core-dev to convince mdz/kamion of the need for UVF exception :)
<Fujitsu> Are there any major bug fixes in 0.14?
<ajmitch> no
<Q-FUNK> yes
<ajmitch> no UVF exception required at all
<ajmitch>    planner | 0.13-4ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Packages
<ajmitch>    planner |     0.14-6 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Sources
<LaserJock> ah
<ajmitch> we already have 0.14 source :)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<LaserJock> good catch ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Just a UniverseFreeze one.
<Q-FUNK> last time a build was attempted was in june
* Fujitsu checks it out.
<Q-FUNK> so much for manual syncs...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: it's still a Main package
<Fujitsu> It is, yes.
<Q-FUNK> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/planner
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: get a core dev to ACK the sync then
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, obviously.
* ajmitch is testing the build now
<ajmitch> well, once the source is fetched.. :)
<Q-FUNK> dget
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: I prefer apt-get
<ajmitch> since I have sid :)
<Q-FUNK> ah :)
<Fujitsu> Building...
<Fujitsu> Hrm. My changelog parser is dodgy.
<Fujitsu> It only gave me the last entry of the new ones.
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting build log
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: ah yes, I recall seeing your blog entries on planet debian :)
<Q-FUNK> :)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> seems like an international link has gone down in NZ again :)
<Q-FUNK> hm?!
<Fujitsu> And planner actually builds fine this time. That's nice.
<ajmitch> just the usual state of internet connectivity in NZ
<ajmitch> someone tripped over a cable or something
<Fujitsu> Do I have to get any special UniverseFreeze exception or anything? Or just a core-dev to ack it?
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: 0.14-10 ?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, yes.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's in main, why are you talking about UniverseFreeze?
<Q-FUNK> yup.  it should.
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> FeatureFreeze.
<ajmitch> it's only a debian revision, too
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, noted, but I believe FeatureFreeze covers that...
<LaserJock> nope
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: ah.  do sheeps eat the dark fiber cables? ;)
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, hahaha.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: FF is for new packages
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: tends to be rats :)
<ajmitch> at least that's the excuse we had last year :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I would ack it if I could build & check it :)
<AnAnt> does subscription to ubuntu-devel mailing list require a moderator approval ?
<ajmitch> AnAnt: no
<AnAnt> ajmitch: wierd, why aint I getting a confirmation mail then ?
<Q-FUNK> gaim-irchelper could probably be synced against the one in experimental, which has the same dependency thightening for gaim 2.0b3
<LaserJock> AnAnt: might take a while
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> thanks
<rmjb_> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi.
<rmjb_> do you all have pmplib in the repos?
<rmjb_> http://pmplib.sourceforge.net/index.html
<rmjb_> I checked but couldn't find it
<rmjb_> and my attempts to compile it get errors since the dependencies are listed on the site or the INSTALL or README files
<LaserJock> argg, does evo mail and evo calendering have 2 different .desktop files?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: probably
<DarkMageZ> rmjb, i'll give compiling it a shot for ya
<Q-FUNK> arf.  I really should get some sleep
<Q-FUNK> cya guys!
<rmjb> thanks
<rmjb> so you guys, The Masters of the Universe, see programs/libraries like this pmplib, and package it up for Ubuntu, and maintain the packages as new versions are released?
<rmjb> is that how it works?
<LaserJock> well, mostly we maintain differences between Ubuntu and Debian
<LaserJock> that is our primary goal
<LaserJock> so if a new package is introduced into Ubuntu Universe then yes we try to maintain that
<rmjb> so if there's a package in debian, an Ubuntu user can use that?
<LaserJock> but better is to find somebody to maintain it in Debian
<LaserJock> yes, our packages come from Debian
<LaserJock> we only modify if we need to
<rmjb> so to become a motu you have to be familiar with the debian packages and process?
<LaserJock> yes
<rmjb> oh, slightly higher bar to enter than I thought
<LaserJock> it's not too bad
<zul> its not like bootcamp
<LaserJock> it's just that Ubuntu uses the same packaging policy (basically) as Debian
<Fujitsu> It's not too bad, though I'm not a MOTU yet.
<LaserJock> so you need to learn how to create packages that conform to the Debian Policy
<rmjb> ok
<LaserJock> and you should at least have a general idea of how things work in Debian so when you need to interact with them you know what to do
<LaserJock> but that's a part of the learning process
<rmjb> are there more sessions planned for the #motu-school?
<ajmitch> eventually :)
<DarkMageZ> rmjb, pmplib depends on libmozjs-dev which doesn't appear to exist in ubuntu
<rmjb> you get that error on configure or make?
<DarkMageZ> on the dependency check from pbuilder
<rmjb> on configure I get a warning about a javascript library not installed, it seems it needs the spidermonkey library which shows up in my synaptic
<rmjb> but that's just a warning
<ajmitch> DarkMageZ: part of xulrunner in sid
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, if i change that dependency to firefox-dev would that be ok?
<rmjb> i installed libsmjs-dev
<ajmitch> DarkMageZ: it may work :)
<DarkMageZ> hmm, ok, i'll change that depend to libsmjs-dev then
<rmjb> later on I had to install libvorbis-dev on a error during the compile
<rmjb> that did not indicate itself during the configure
<DarkMageZ> libvorbis-dev is listed 
<rmjb> where are you seeing this list of dependencies?
<DarkMageZ> rmjb, in the control file in the debian folder.
<rmjb> hmm... my source package from sf.net doesn't have a debian folder... I guess that's why you guys are the Masters of the Univers
<DarkMageZ> which doesn't exist in the 0.12 source package. i pulled pmplib from svn
<rmjb> oh
<DarkMageZ> but i pulled the 0.12 branch. pmplib doesn't seem to be an active project, last change was 4 weeks ago
<rmjb> that's okay, it worked under windows
<rmjb> just need the same functionality under linux for my mp3 player
<rmjb> hey, looks like it worked! I did a make clean distclean and created a separate pmplib-build directory and did everything in there and it worked
<rmjb> now the best way to install this is with checkinstall right?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: ACKed bug 61174 for you
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61174 in planner "Please sync planner 0.14-10 (main) from Debian Sid (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61174
<DarkMageZ> rmjb, checkinstall is better than make install, but there are alot better ways
<Fujitsu> Thanks, ajmitch.
<rmjb> what's a better way?
<DarkMageZ> rmjb, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<rmjb> thanks
<DarkMageZ> anyone know what i should expect to break if i backport firefox 2 from edgy to dapper?
<crimsun> "a lot".
<Fujitsu> Yes, a LOT.
<DarkMageZ> like? i've been running it for a week
<zul> oooh...we have a masochist in our midst
<Fujitsu> yelp will break, anything else that uses gecko will break...
<DarkMageZ> i'll go test yelp
<rmjb> one question, do you guys recommend using aptitude or actively recommend against it?
<tseng> apt-cache rdepends firefox
<tseng> rmjb: use whatever you want
<rmjb> cool
<tseng> DarkMageZ: you will break about 180 things
<tseng> DarkMageZ: +/- a few
<DarkMageZ> ok, so add/remove still works, yelp still works
<DarkMageZ> i'll test openoffice, that's listed =D
<Fujitsu> yelp still works!?
<DarkMageZ> mmhmm, i'll upload the packages to my repo if u wanna see for yourself
<Fujitsu> I'm running edgy :P
<DarkMageZ> ah
<DarkMageZ> next i'm thinking of trying trunk, hopefully that will break yelp 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yelp doesn't work for you?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, it should break in a Gecko change like that, shouldn't it?
<LaserJock> like what?
<LaserJock> and I have no idea
<Fujitsu> Like Firefox 2 being dropped into Dapper?
<LaserJock> well, I guess it would depend on "dropped into"
<zul> heh...i think you are going to give iwj a conniption if someone did that
<DarkMageZ> ok, i'm uploading the firefox 2.0b2 packages for dapper to my repo now. so any non-believers can try for themselfs 
<crimsun> the more unofficial crackful package we have circulating, the bigger our headache. Please request official backports instead.
<ajmitch> especially when we have to support them
<ajmitch> eg the number of mono issues I've had with broken dbus backports
<tseng> DarkMageZ: no offence but you would do well to heed the advice for people who have been doing this for years rather than writing us off as "non-believers"
<tritium> Hey LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> Morning, tritium.
<LaserJock> hi tritium!
<tritium> Hi Fujitsu.
<LaserJock> argg, has anybody done a binary litian override?
<tritium> LaserJock: saw your wondering in my away log
<LaserJock> mhm
<tritium> I've been up to many things, including most recently running a couple 1/2 marathons, and being in the ER for kidney stones
<LaserJock> yikes
<tritium> Yeah, no fun...
<ajmitch> hey tritium
<tritium> hey ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Ow.
<tritium> I'm on vicodin for the pain, so I'm managing
<ajmitch> still not nice
<tritium> How are you all?
<LaserJock> busy busy busy :-)
* LaserJock is trying to figure out how to do a binary lintian override
<tritium> :)
* Fujitsu is trying to figure out what the $#*$ is up with python-numpy.
<LaserJock> oh nifty
<Fujitsu> It explodes!
<Fujitsu> #if (PY_VERSION_HEX >= 0x02050000)
<Fujitsu> What's that meant to check?
<Fujitsu> Is that >= 2.5?
<ajmitch> if python >= 2.5
<Fujitsu> OK.
<ajmitch> it fails when building?
<Fujitsu> It's that section which explodes...
<Fujitsu> They use an undefined variable in there!
<ajmitch> more fun for you to fix
<Fujitsu> Yup.
<Fujitsu> Now, said variable is `op', there's an `o' and `obj' around...
* Fujitsu checks if it should be either of those two.
* ajmitch will be back later
<Fujitsu> Looks like it should be o...
* Fujitsu changes.
<Fujitsu> See ya!
<Fujitsu> Bye, Laser_away.
<Laser_away> I'll bbl
<jcape> bzflag
<minghua> hello everyone
<Fujitsu> Hi, minghua.
<crimsun> argh, whoever keeps assigning stuff to ubuntu-universe-sponsors needs to stop doing it if he's not going to fill in the outstanding information from the sync protocol
<Fujitsu> Who is it?
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/people/kalon33
<Fujitsu> He's a /member/ of ubuntu-universe-sponsors!?
<crimsun> apparently there are quite a few non-MOTU who are members of said team
<Fujitsu> That's a little odd.
<crimsun> For coverage's sake, I'm fine with that if they're also checking the actual sync requests.
* Fujitsu grumbles about python-numpy...
<Fujitsu> A fix for Python 2.5 was committed...
<Fujitsu> But it seems to break it even more.
<Fujitsu> Terrific.
<minghua> Edgy is still going to have python 2.4 as default, isn't it?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> the supported versions are 2.4 and 2.5
<minghua> I saw Fujitsu's message about python-2.5 breaking Debian's python-numpy
<minghua> I suppose the problem is that edgy can't build python-numpy from Debian because edgy is building python-2.5 modules?
<crimsun> haven't looked yet, still trudging through these u-u-s source packages
<minghua> Fujitsu: would it possible to just build 2.4 modules?
<ajmitch> crimsun: the team ought to be moderated
<ajmitch> I'll see if I can change it to be so
<ajmitch> ok, changed to moderated, any MOTUs willing to join should poke myself or hobbsee :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> I only spot 3 non-MOTUs on there
<LaserJock> I just joined
<LaserJock> what the heck happened there?
<LaserJock> isn't that supposed to be MOTUs who are  willing to sponsor non-MOTUs?
<crimsun> that was my original thought, too
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> there's also some duplication with motureviewers
<ajmitch> which leads to confusion, etc
<LaserJock> well, I think it came from ubuntu-sponsors
<LaserJock> for Main
<ajmitch> yes, pitti set them both up iirc
<LaserJock> I would personally consider motureviewers==ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<reggaemanu> erf, latest ffmpeg/libavcodec/libavformat has broken mplayer
<ajmitch> I wonder if we can merge teams :)
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/motureviewers/+assignedbugs
<ajmitch> 30 assigned, several are stale
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> it's been awhile since I went through the list
* LaserJock longs for the 48hr day ;-)
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> but I wish I had time for these things
<ajmitch> & I had a couple to upload which I should get onto (libcm, gnucash)
<crimsun> reggaemanu: how?
<reggaemanu> crimsun, mplayer: symbol lookup error: mplayer: undefined symbol: a52_resample
<reggaemanu> it's now impossible to play any movie
<LaserJock> reggaemanu: how new is that mplayer?
<reggaemanu> hum, the package in edgy is the last version (pre8)
<crimsun> reggaemanu: that's -from -2 and is completely intentional
<reggaemanu> but since the ffmpeg/libavcodec/libavformat update around one hour ago it's broken
<LaserJock> earlier today slomo was taking with a mplayer dev about quite a few changes to the mplayer package
<LaserJock> so I wonder if that's a part of it
<Nafallo> me, slomo and siretart have been talking quite a while with two mplayer devs today.
<crimsun> mplayer simply needs liba52-0.7.4-dev added as a build-dependency
<LaserJock> darn, I bet Kamion is asleep
<slomo> crimsun: no
<reggaemanu> hum ok, so the package should be updated soon
<LaserJock> or shood be at least
<crimsun> slomo: what's the issue, then?
<slomo> crimsun: it's not that easy unfortunately ;)
<crimsun> another abi fling?
<slomo> symbol conflicts because of mplayer's bundled liba52 and the one that libavcodec opens
<crimsun> ah, _excellent_
<slomo> and mplayer doesn't want our liba52
<crimsun> we <3 ffmpeg
<slomo> but i'll care for this :)
<reggaemanu> then, i will use totem -_-' unfortunally i've updated between two movies ^^
<reggaemanu> slomo, thanks for the informations
* Nafallo updates the log :-)
<slomo> reggaemanu: could be worse... you could've uploaded it while watching one movie and restart it in the middle ;)
* Nafallo spanks bddebian
<Nafallo> bddebian: hello :-)
<bddebian> Heya Nafallo and gang :-)
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<Nafallo> bddebian: what's up? :-)
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Nafallo: Doing a little work from home and getting ready to review some packages hopefully.  You?
<crimsun> bddebian's about to fix all the universe+multiverse bugs, hooray!
* ajmitch cheers
<ajmitch> crimsun: he's about to fix up everything on revu, too
<bddebian> I can't fix anything, you know that :-)
<crimsun> wow
<Nafallo> bddebian: pondering if bed or LP bugs are more important ;-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: LP bugs, you know that ;-P
<Nafallo> bddebian: ;-). was not _that_ much to do for MOTU-IM :-)
* Nafallo checks if he might have missed some ;-)
<Nafallo> oh. gajim built on x86_64 :-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: Well I can give you another list if you like :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: :-P
<Nafallo> bddebian: I should probably read my e-mail and then go to bed. it's 3:21 here :-P
<bddebian> Eeks, gnight man
<Nafallo> hehe
<ajmitch> bddebian: cleared up REVU yet?
<bddebian> Oh yeah, I'm done
* bddebian still wonders why everyone scoffs at him
<ajmitch> sweet, uploaded the advocated packages?
* ajmitch doesn't think there are that many that will have 2 advocates right now
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe I'm doing anything tonight..
<ajmitch> go for it!
<ajmitch> bddebian: you still haven't given your opinion of krb5-auth-dialog
<bddebian> ajmitch: I was worried my machine was dead, but it was just a dead battery.. Whew
* Nafallo has a battery on the way here
* bddebian is soooo behind on bugs :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: you keep up better than I do
* ajmitch has a mere fraction of the bug karma
<bddebian> ajmitch: Not with bugs man, I haven't done shit yet for Edgy wrt bugs :-(
<ajmitch> the numbers lie
<ajmitch> is that what you say?
<bddebian> Yes
* ajmitch doesn't have time for this
<bddebian> Alot of my bug karma is from Sync requests
<bddebian> Are these worth not uploading?  Seem innocuous to me..
<bddebian> W: rrdweather; Long descriptions contains short description.
<bddebian> W: rrdweather; File /usr/lib/rrdweather/db_update.sh contained in /usr/lib of Architecture: all package.
<Nafallo> bddebian: are those our changes? otherwise bug debian and sync :-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: No these are a REVU package
<Nafallo> oh
<bddebian> dead air... :)
<minghua> bddebian: since rrdweather only builds an arch:all package, the second warning is probably upstream issue
<minghua> I take that back
<minghua> in debian/rules:
<minghua> 	cp -a db_builder.sh $(CURDIR)/debian/rrdweather/usr/lib/rrdweather
<minghua> 	cp -a db_update.sh $(CURDIR)/debian/rrdweather/usr/lib/rrdweather
<minghua> 	cp -a weather.cgi  $(CURDIR)/debian/rrdweather/usr/lib/cgi-bin
<minghua> I must admit I don't know what is the proper way to package cgi apps
<bddebian> ajmitch: opinions?
<bddebian> minghua: Me either :-(  Thanks btw
<minghua> bddebian: you are welcome, I am just trying to help as much as I can without an edgy system :-)
<ajmitch> 13
<ajmitch> hm
<bddebian> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> bddebian: where did you get this error from?
<bddebian> ajmitch: linda
<bddebian> ajmitch: Think I need to worry about it?
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> sorry, working at the moment as well :)
<bddebian> Hmm, I never trust linda on Dapper for some reason
<ajmitch> blame StevenK?
<bddebian> crimsun: Any thoughts from you, your highness? :-)
<bddebian> la la la la laaa
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> hello miss hobbs
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<Toadstool> re
<bddebian> wb Toadstool
<Toadstool> huhu, rrdweather issues?
<bddebian> Toadstool: Aye, have an opinion?
<Toadstool> hmm, I should have tested the 2nd upload with lintian too...
<Toadstool> lemme have a look
<Toadstool> hmm? how come does/win15
<Toadstool> ouch :)
* Toadstool must buy a brain and new hands
<Toadstool> bddebian: lintian is happy with the package, linda, well..., I don't care :p
<bddebian> Toadstool: Fair enough for me :-)
<bddebian> Fuck
<bddebian> ajmitch: I just accidently archived krb5-auth-dialog
<Hobbsee> bddebian: unarchive it?
<ajmitch> bddebian: that's fine, it's obviously not worth having
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Can I do that?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: sure, go to the archived section, and hit "unarchive"
<bddebian> Oh, duh
<bddebian> crimsun: Where'd you go?
<Toadstool> http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060914/hl_afp/afplifestylehealthalcohol <-- haha
<Toadstool> (sorry but couldn't resist :p)
<Deaigo> can i upload crap i used checkinstall for?
<ajmitch> no
<SwordedHobbsee> hah
* SwordedHobbsee waves her sword at Deaigo for the questoin
<Deaigo> thought so ;)
* bddebian breaks out the katana
<SwordedHobbsee> bddebian: now you be careful, else i'll make you WALK THE PLANK!
<Deaigo> i was just instaling http://btg.berlios.de/ and thought it would be nice ot save others the pain in the ass process
<ajmitch> it's just a recipe for more pain
<Deaigo> is making a .deb package complex...?
<ajmitch> very complex if people don't stick around for an answer...
<SwordedHobbsee> heh
<bddebian> Aye, that is potentially a problem :-)
* ajmitch blames SwordedHobbsee for scaring people off
<ajmitch> bddebian: your verdict?
* SwordedHobbsee blames aj
<SwordedHobbsee> bddebian:
* SwordedHobbsee blames ajmitch 
<Fujitsu> minghua, I too think it might be a good idea to just build python2.4 modules, at least until upstream fixes it.
<Fujitsu> Hey, SwordedHobbsee.
<SwordedHobbsee> hi Fujitsu!
<minghua> Fujitsu: glad that we agree :-)
* Fujitsu continues to read over the log from the past 2 hours.
<Fujitsu> Yes, what's with motureviewers? Isn't it completely obsolete now?
<SwordedHobbsee> it's the same thing as ubuntu-universe-sponsors i suspect
<ajmitch> not while some people are still assigning bugs there
<Fujitsu> SwordedHobbsee, it looks like it.
<Fujitsu> Said people need to be informed of the new process.
<ajmitch> it existed long before hobbsee's little team :)
<SwordedHobbsee> true
* SwordedHobbsee obviously wasnt informed.  or didnt know anyone actually did anything with it
* Fujitsu doesn't like SwordedHobbsee, she's purple rather than her normal yellow.
<SwordedHobbsee> besides, i didnt create it
<SwordedHobbsee> oh?
<SwordedHobbsee> heh, guess i am
<SwordedHobbsee> i'm still authed
<Fujitsu> Ooh!
<Fujitsu> You changed your real name!
* Fujitsu applauds.
<SwordedHobbsee> a couple of days ago, yeah
<ajmitch> someone get me some caffeine
* Fujitsu throws some coffee over to NZ.
* Hobbsee hands ajmitch a rocket launcher
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: not helpful
<Hobbsee> awww...
<jlkenyon2012> hey, this is where the universe maintainers hang out?
<Fujitsu> jlkenyon2012, yes.
<Hobbsee> yuep
<Hobbsee> er, yep
<jlkenyon2012> cool, I didn't get lost this time
<jlkenyon2012> so if I were interested in making packages for distribution via apt, I would need the blessing of someone here
<bddebian> apt does not create packages
<Fujitsu> bddebian, distribution via apt.
<bddebian> Oh hehe, I misread that
<jlkenyon2012> yeah, although I do need to learn how to make packages first
<jlkenyon2012> I am still torn between gentoo and ubuntu, and leaning towards gentoo just because portage has more of the obscure packages that I require at times... but with any open project, a failure remains only because the users allow it
<bddebian> jlkenyon2012: So get them in the Ubuntu repositories :-)
<jlkenyon2012> and that is not too difficult to do?
<Fujitsu> jlkenyon2012, I've done it twice, so it's not too difficult, no.
<LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: don't  you have some sysadmining to do? ;-)
<jlkenyon2012> hey Jordan
<jlkenyon2012> yeah... I but I usually stop sysadmining after about 7
<bddebian> heh
<jlkenyon2012> usually that is about when drinking begins, and I have found that the two don't mix well
<bddebian> Bah, sysadmining gets better the more alcohol is infused :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: don't encourage him
<ajmitch> bddebian: that explains a lot
<LaserJock> I need him to keep my wiki alive :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: What are you trying to say? ;-)
<ajmitch> nothing.. nothing at all
<LaserJock> bddebian: you know what he's saying
<jlkenyon2012> hehehe... I've written some pretty inspired code while under the influence, but when my finances are at stake, I tend to err on the side of caution
<LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: if you want to figure out how to package then check out the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<jlkenyon2012> so this topic asks "Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?", what does mean? is REVU a means by which the community can verify the integrity of packages in the repositories? (speculating?)
<jlkenyon2012> cool
<LaserJock> it's a reviewing system
<LaserJock> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<jlkenyon2012> this bot is pretty good
<LaserJock> so basically, you create a source package and upload it to REVU
<LaserJock> then MOTU review it and give feedback, etc.
<LaserJock> if a MOTU is ok with it going into Universe they give it a vote
<LaserJock> 2 votes and it's in
<LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: oh, the bot's even better then that
<LaserJock> !info ghemical edgy
<ubotu> ghemical: A GNOME molecular modelling environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.01-2 (edgy), package size 1790 kB, installed size 3028 kB
<ajmitch> ubugtu is better
<LaserJock> mhm
<ajmitch> bug 59166
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59166 in f-spot "Mono segfaults in dbus_pending_call_get_completed()" [Unknown,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59166
<jlkenyon2012> zounds!
<jlkenyon2012> now I am more interested in the bots than I am in the packaging process
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't distract him with shiny things
<nixternal> haha
<jlkenyon2012> well, now that I have a place to start reading, I am gonna book mark it and get back to working on tomorrow's lesson plan
<LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: what are you teaching?
<jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: although this is somewhat unofficial, I am teaching an SP topic in programming languages over in SEM
<jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: Tomorrow is MySQL
<AnAnt> YourSQL ?
<bddebian> heh
<jlkenyon2012> something like that...
<jlkenyon2012> OurSQL?
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> HerSQL
<jlkenyon2012> ideally, it would be taught by one of the normal teachers, but the teacher I had for networks was stuck in the age of token ring and coax ethernet
<jlkenyon2012> much to my dismay I had to apply some of that knowledge to the systems in the basement in chemistry :-(
<ajmitch> ah, modern technology
<ajmitch> that's scary
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you don't want to know
<bddebian> What, no arcnet?
<LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: on one of the clusters?
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, the morse code machine broke :/
<bddebian> LaserJock: :)
<jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: one of the old Sun machines interfaced with its TOF laser unit via AUI which fed into an AUI to Coax adapter, and fed Coax into the machine
<ajmitch> jlkenyon2012: fragile?
<jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: And that adapter was not set right, one of the little dipswitches was set wrong
<LaserJock> oh jeeze
<jlkenyon2012> I have never felt so confused by a network setup... when I flipped the "50 Ohm" switch and everything suddenly "just worked" I called it a miracle
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> ah well
<LaserJock> now we just need to take over the CIL
<jlkenyon2012> that would be nice
<jlkenyon2012> what do you think of them putting Dr. Woo in charge of that?
<LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: you think lew would mind if we replaced all the NMR computers with Ubuntu boxen?
<LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: really?
<LaserJock> argg, I gotta go
<jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: later
<LaserJock> good night MOTU land
<Fujitsu> With bug #58852, I think an archive person just needs to send it back to the buildds...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58852 in kismet "Kismet in edgy still depends on ethereal-common " [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58852
<Fujitsu> Goodnight, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> be nice to jlkenyon2012, he keeps my computers running
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Fujitsu> 'night.
<chillywilly> bddebian always runs off to bed ;P
<chillywilly> I'll sleep when I'm dead
<superm1> hey all - is it the end of REVU day, or would a MOTU be willing to fit in one more?
<Hobbsee> superm1: where's the package?
<superm1> the mythtv package I put on revu
<superm1> its a diff from one I put up about a week ago
<superm1> that was accepted
<superm1> I changed two small things with it
<Hobbsee> didnt imbrandon upload that?
<superm1> he uploaded it to edgy
<superm1> I uploaded it to revu
<Hobbsee> true
<superm1> I'm looking to become a MOTU myself, actually going to be in a community council meeting tomorrow to start the process, and then I can say that I personally uploaded some things :)
<Fujitsu> superm1, the meeting is in 6.5 hours.
<superm1> yea I know I need to get some rest.....
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<superm1> my roomate keeps telling me that too
<Fujitsu> Good idea.
<Fujitsu> Go to bed! :P
<superm1> just finishing my wiki page ;)
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<ajmitch> superm1: you have a consistent number & quality of contributions?
<superm1> well I have recently started to contribute to REVU in the last week or two.  prior to this, its been a lot off record stuff.  I ran my own repo with packages for myth and such
<superm1> well off record in the sense that I never pushed for them to be included
<superm1> ajmitch: you can take a look at my wiki page as of now if you'd like to see what I have:
<superm1> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/superm1
<Kagou> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Evening.
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<imbrandon> ello Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach, Fujitsu, imbrandon
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee, hey imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<dholbach> imbrandon: I didn't get telepathy-qt building - I'm not clever enough for the new kde world
<dholbach> imbrandon: I hope andrunko will come to #kubuntu-devel and figure it out with you guys
<dholbach> imbrandon: he's upstream for it and would love to see it in edgy
<imbrandon> dholbach: sure ;)
<imbrandon> dholbach: if you can point me to a website i can poke at it a bit too
<dholbach> imbrandon: the packaging is in bzr on launchpad, the source is aaaaat: ...
<imbrandon> kk
<dholbach> https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/tapioca-voip/trunk/telepathy-qt (svn)
<dholbach> i'm sure he'll show up on irc sooner or later
<dholbach> and maybe he has another idea how to get it going :)
<imbrandon> ok, sounds great ;)
<imbrandon> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/telepathy-qt/ubuntu
<dholbach> it seems to be a matter of build-depends
<imbrandon> err doh
<dholbach> but i'm not sure
<dholbach> D'oh?
<imbrandon> dident alt+tab to the right window
<dholbach> ahh :)
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon, dholbach
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> how'd your revu day go? :)
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> it was quite ok, although I wished I'd have managed to do more
<dholbach> how was yours?
<dholbach> maybe we can do another one at the end of the week?
<dholbach> matiu: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU is the process for getting packages included
<dholbach> matiu: but for edgy we have to be quick... Sep 28th is UniverseFreeze
<matiu> ooo
<dholbach> and to be frank, we have a constant lack of reviewers :)
<dholbach> I was just saying
<dholbach> maybe we can do another one (REVU day) at the end of the week?
<dholbach> :-)
<imbrandon> dholbach: sounds good to me
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> friday?
<imbrandon> friday ( anyday ) heh is good, maybe a revu weekend fri-sat too to catch the people that work durring the week
<imbrandon> but i dont have that problem sooo.
<imbrandon> a 48 hours one last pull before universe freeze
<imbrandon> s/hours/hour
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch> dholbach: or we just keep reviewing as long as we can :)
* ajmitch will be away for the weekend
<imbrandon> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> ok got it building, there are a few more errors to work out
<imbrandon> but the main thing is the build-deps
<imbrandon> Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-core, cmake, qt4-dev-tools, libqt4-dev
<dholbach> oh nice
<imbrandon> ^^ needs to be that
<dholbach> ok cool
<dholbach> you see that I have no clue :)
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> hehe well i had a bit of help from Riddell too ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: you'd be the last person we could say that about
* ajmitch has a broken kiwi :(
<dholbach> imbrandon, Riddell: thanks a lot
<ajmitch> seems that changes in python-twisted have broken epyrun
<imbrandon> dholbach: past that it looks to be an error in the svn code is all thats holding it up
<ajmitch> which is unlikely since it hasn't had any changes for awhile
* ajmitch keeps digging
<imbrandon> dholbach: one sec i'll pastebin for you to see
<imbrandon> dholbach: looks like an error in the channel.h in svn , but the package attempts to build now ( with those build-deps ) http://pastebin.ca/175931
<dholbach> hum
<dholbach> I'll tell andrunko to look at it
<dholbach> thanks for your efforts
<imbrandon> dholbach: np, still messing with it too , it might be a qt-bus dep , i dunno without really knowing what all the code uses, i'm trying a few diffrentinthgs
<imbrandon> qt-dbus*
<imbrandon> dholbach: it looks like a qt-dus thing and ..... 03:23 < Riddell> imbrandon: so not much we can do until qt 4.2 comes out
<imbrandon> unfortinutely
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> I'll tell him
<imbrandon> nota  problem with the telepathy
<dholbach> i wonder what he uses to build it
<imbrandon> heh watch it be gentoo ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<dholbach> no no, he uses ubuntu too
<imbrandon> ahh
<dholbach> but he must have upstream cvs or something
<imbrandon> possibly
<matiu> would anyone adopt my package?
<imbrandon> matiu: what package ?
<matiu> there's a build script in the svn source
<matiu> http://exelearning.org
<dholbach> we should have that kind of stuff in ubuntu though
<dholbach> as part of the "make upstream happy" spec
<matiu> I build packages, but I'm not too hot with ubuntu, don't have much time y'know
<imbrandon> dholbach: definately
<ajmitch> matiu: good to see more kiwis involved anyway :)
<matiu> it's not in ubuntu offiial yet...
<matiu> thanks...
<ajmitch> does it use the new python policy yet?
<matiu> Is there someone who would maintain it and get into ubuntu official and ed-ubuntu.. ?
<matiu> ajmitch: I don't know what the new python policy is...
<imbrandon> matiu: your in the right room/place to ask ;)
<matiu> Our ubuntu package is the most popular linux download
<matiu> second only to windoze
<ajmitch> quite a large source tarball :)
<matiu> overtook rpm this year...
<matiu> yeah, it's a bit mucky, including twisted, nevow and formless
<matiu> I can take them out (except nevow)
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> it can't build with an external python-nevow?
<matiu> trouble is we depend on an older version that's not available in dapper onwards
<ajmitch> hm
<matiu> We tried 3 times to upgrade it, but get wierd slowing down problems
<ajmitch> the debian packaging isn't in the source tarball I see, which is fine (and probably preferred)
<matiu> the webserver gets slower and slower after each request. Haven't been able to fix it
<matiu> ajmitch: really, it's just a super hack, to make ubuntu users happy. But I'd really like to see get into edubuntu official
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> so it may need done from scratch?
<matiu> but I'm the lead developer and have too much on my plate to work out how to make packages.
<ajmitch> is it a python extension or a python module?
<matiu> Some people voluteered to do it, then dissappeared. about 3 times now :(
<matiu> It's really an app
<matiu> doesn't actually install in /usr/lib/python2.4
<ajmitch> ah right
<matiu> just all goes into /usr/share/exe
<ajmitch> and some stuff in /usr/bin?
<matiu> yeah, one file
<matiu> called 'exe'
<matiu> :)
<ajmitch> naming is a little difficult :)
<matiu> yeah. Try searching for it!
<imbrandon> lol
<matiu> we're moving to exelearning name. better
<ajmitch> dependencies?
<matiu> just twisted really
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> standard distutils install?
<matiu> and formless, perhaps. If twisted doesn't already depend on it
<matiu> (also it includes a cusomised firefox)
* matiu winces
<matiu> That's another reason for bigness
<matiu> Do you think there's any chance of getting it in official? or too evil?
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> the customised firefox would probably be the main killer
<matiu> We could probably make it work with normal firefox
<matiu> only there would be two menus...
<matiu> not very professional looking
<matiu> actually we could make a server only app
<matiu> aw. I don't know. Maybe not
<matiu> our ff has some chrome edits and accepts some undocumented command line options
<matiu> that ubuntu firefox sometimes does and sometimes doesn't
<matiu> depending on each release of it
<matiu> the command line opts allow us to launch a special profile with special low security settings allowing our "localhost" web server to write files etc...
<matiu> I'm sorry. I have to fly. I'll see if I can catch up again tommorrow ajmitch. Thanks for your help.
<ajmitch> alright, see you later
<\sh> how long does it take nowadays for a sync to happen?
<ajmitch> depends on how often you nag kamion/keybuk
<ajmitch> but it seems to be a few days at least
<ajmitch> I think it's keybuk's archive day today
<ajmitch> shawarma: what are you doing uploading nm plugins?
<Plug> NM plugins you say?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> vpnc, openvpn, & pptp
<\sh> ajmitch: thx...so I wait until universe UVF
<\sh> ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: or you bug them mercilessly
<\sh> well, after I file some more sync reports ,)
* ajmitch has some more also :)
<ajmitch> though I've got to update some of my debian package first
<\sh> I'm waiting for my hp blade enclosure to deploy ... DC has some problems with giving me MACs and ILO PWs
<Yagisan> dumb question time, do we have packages of nvidias cg compiler ?
<phanatic> hello everyone
<ajmitch> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hi ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Hi phanatic.
<phanatic> hey Fujitsu
<AnAnt> ping dholbach
<dholbach> <andrunko> dholbach: /home/brandon/devel/telepathy-qt/telepathy-qt-0.1.0/./include/QtTelepathy/channel.h:21:25: error: QtDBus/QtDBus: No such file or directory
<dholbach> imbrandon: <andrunko> dholbach: strange, can you pastebin dpkg -L libdbus-qt4-1-dev
<tseng>  /nick imdholbach
<slomo> dholbach, imbrandon: wrong package name... should be liqt4-core-kdecopy-dev or something like that
<imbrandon> dholbach: lemme finish eating ( breakfast time hehehe ) then i'll look
<imbrandon> dholbach: ohhh thats what i was saying earlier , libdbus-qt4-1-dev isnt installable atm, Riddell  said we would have to wait for the qt4.2 update
<imbrandon> slomo: wha ?
<dholbach> imbrandon: ok, right
<slomo> libdbus-qt4-1-dev is to be removed rsn
<slomo> the dbus qt4 bindings moved to qt4 upstream and are in the qt4-x11-kdecopy package
<imbrandon> hrm ok lemme try it with that
<imbrandon> guess i should have known heh
<imbrandon> slomo: you sure thats the right package? ......
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/pytunes$ sudo apt-cache search qt4-x11-kdecopy
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/pytunes$
<slomo> imbrandon: that's the source package name
<imbrandon> ahh
<slomo> imbrandon: libqt4-dev-kdecopy / libqt4-core-kdecopy
<imbrandon> right, ok , sorry eating and not thinking ;)
<slomo> np
<AnAnt> dholbach: did you get my email ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: yes
<dholbach> AnAnt: I diffed the two debian/ dirs
<dholbach> AnAnt: it seems you changed the debhelper build-depends version
<AnAnt> dholbach: yup
<dholbach> AnAnt: I couldn't see why that was necessary
<AnAnt> dholbach: because when I leave it as it is, the REVUers tell me that : compat should be set to 5, debhelper to >= (5.0.0), Standards-Version to 3.7.2
<dholbach> then you should tell them: this is a package update - I want to keep the diff small
<AnAnt> what diff ?
<dholbach> that's a valid and good argument
<dholbach> diff ubuntu debian
<tseng> Hobbsee: man it takes forever to build ethereal
<AnAnt> why would this make the diff big ?
<dholbach> not big
<dholbach> but it's an unnecessary change
<Hobbsee> tseng: *g*
<Hobbsee> tseng: what do you have to build it forthis time?
<tseng> Hobbsee: i am trying to build it with gtk 1.2 to spot a "regression"
<Hobbsee> ah
<tseng> Hobbsee: this is infuriating
<tseng> Hobbsee: ...we run it over remote X11 to windows clients
<dholbach> AnAnt: nevermind - it was a sidenote - I uploaded it anyway... it's just a difference, if it's a package YOU maintain or if it's a package you have to merge every now and then
<tseng> for network staff
<tseng> Hobbsee: now that it was running good for awhile people will not believe that remote X is shit and this was a bad idea from the onset
<tseng> Hobbsee: it must be fixed!!!!1
<AnAnt> dholbach: yeah, I know it was a sidenote, but I needed to understand
<dholbach> AnAnt: sure
<AnAnt> dholbach: I didn't understand that "if it's a package YOU maintain or if it's a package you have to merge every now and then" part
<dholbach> AnAnt: you didn't or you still don't?
<Hobbsee> tseng: hehe, ouch, yes
<AnAnt> dholbach: still don't
<dholbach> AnAnt: ok. setting the Standards-Version is nice - so if it's a package where you write the packaging and you maintain it, you should have it.
<dholbach> AnAnt: if it's a package that we sync from debian and it's the easiest way for us to have good quality software, it's nice if we can just sync it
<dholbach> AnAnt: if there are changes, we can't sync, we have to check the changes
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok, I noticed that Debian hasn't done any apcalc packages since Jan, so did they stop ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: if changes are not necessary, one has to contemplate how much the change is
<dholbach> AnAnt: that's something you need to ask the maintainer of the package - I don't know
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok, thanks
<dholbach> Ok, super.
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok how about this question
<AnAnt> dholbach: sometimes if I use the Debian diff as it is, the resulting binary debs got some lintian/linda issues
<dholbach> if you forward the diff to the debian maintainer, that's cool
<AnAnt> dholbach: like in the case of apcalc, the .menu file is in the apcalc-common instead of the apcalc package, and the FSF address is old
<dholbach> to me "making linda happy" was only important for my packages
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok, that's better idea indeed
<Fujitsu> Thanks, \sh.
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok, thanks for the info
<lophyte> dholbach: you got a minute?
<dholbach> lophyte: yes
<lophyte> dholbach: you mentioned in your email to take a look at broken edgy packages and fix them.. I was just wondering, how do I know that someone else isn't already working on a particular package?
<dholbach> lophyte: we have a lot of packages ;)
<lophyte> haha, I noticed
<dholbach> lophyte: if there's a specific bug you work on, you can simply add a comment "working on it"
<lophyte> where would I add that?
<dholbach> a comment on the bug?
<lophyte> yeah
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<lophyte> ahhh, okay
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> lophyte: if it's a package of a "working list", you could just say "looking at <something>" in the channel - that's good enough
<lophyte> alright
<dholbach> we can't fully circumvent clashes, but they don't happen that often
<lophyte> so should I check the launchpad for bugs first, or use apt-cache -i unmet as a guide for finding packages to work on?
<dholbach> lophyte: there's a lot to do: if you find something that interests you, just go ahead
<lophyte> alright
<dholbach> we should definitely set up some working lists soon again
<dholbach> and maybe have a motu meeting to discuss objectives until release
<dholbach> like getting lists of packages that don't build anymore, etc
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that'd be good.
<dholbach> Unfortunately I'm very busy atm or I'd take matters in my own hands.
<lophyte> I'm still working on going through the packaging guide
<ajmitch> the rest of us can tackle it
* Fujitsu will do anything he can.
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'll check with infinity to see if he can do a test build & give us the results
<dholbach> If somebody comes across an easy package to tackle for lophyte, please do so.
<lophyte> thanks :)
<dholbach> lophyte: you ROCK! :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: what lists do we want this time? FTBFS, out of date, etc?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: good idea
<dholbach> ajmitch: unmetdeps too
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> unmetdeps should be easy enough
<dholbach> and of course our bugs
<ajmitch> yeah
<dholbach> it'd be great to get a big picture of stuff we should really fix
<Fujitsu> It'd be very nice, yes.
<ajmitch> you managed to get a response on setting motu as bug contact for everything in universe?
<dholbach> no, I sent the mail - no reply yet
<ajmitch> the problem is that some packages are more equal than others, so to speak
<ajmitch> so maybe hooking it up to popcon again
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> yeah, I have the same feeling
<ajmitch> goody, soyuz is missing the feature
<tseng> yay
<Fujitsu> Fantastic.
<Fujitsu> I love having Launchpad being its useless self.
<ajmitch> dholbach: for example, I found that kiwi doesn't build anymore - it's nice to catch these errors
<ajmitch> hi Q-FUNK
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah, that'd be very good
<Fujitsu> It would be nice... Anybody feel like doing it manually? :P
<dholbach> ajmitch: after UniverseFreeze we should really look at our bugs and give them prios
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: sure
<ajmitch> we have the technology
<ajmitch> dholbach: will we have some people to approve universe freeze exceptions again?
<ajmitch> I think mdz won't mind if there are some trusted people doing that
<dholbach> slomo, siretart and I will do it - same process as last time
<ajmitch> ok
<jsgotangco> "we have technology" - reminds me of spongebob
<dholbach> I think it worked quite well
<tseng> jsgotangco: the 6 million dollar man
<ajmitch> as long as you're not all too busy
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> inflation has drowned the cost of the 6 million dollar man
<tseng> but prosthetic knees have gone down in price
<tseng> meh
<slomo> dholbach: maybe with only 2/3 votes necessary this time to get things done a bit faster
<dholbach> slomo: sounds good to me
<dholbach> siretart: ^ agree?
<ajmitch> slomo: please
<slomo> ajmitch: hm?
<ajmitch> slomo: I think it's a good idea not requiring all 3
<slomo> ajmitch: ok :)
<ajmitch> since it puts pressure on you all to be on top of them :)
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: hi.  I saw your sync request added to the package. thanks!
<ajmitch> no problem
<lophyte> dholbach: should i post to the mailing list that I'm looking for easy packages to fix? ;)
<siretart> dholbach: I got my connectivity back, so I in theory I should be able to handle that.
<dholbach> siretart: do you have objections to a 2/3 vote being ok?
<siretart> dholbach: let's try, but if I get too slow, it might make sense to replace me. for now, I'm willing to do so
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<siretart> dholbach: I think 2/3 vote is very ok, unless the third one strongly objects ;)
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<dholbach> siretart: I'm fully confident in you
<dholbach> siretart, slomo: ok, agreed.
<dholbach> lophyte: sounds like a good idea - we should make that a nice big thread with ideas for the next weeks until release
<lophyte> alright
<dholbach> lophyte: thanks for doing it
* ajmitch will get onto writing up some lists
<ajmitch> infinity is working out something with wanna-build & getting us build results
<slomo> siretart: any idea when you will have time for liba52? :)
<siretart> ajmitch: testrebuilds like in hoary?
<ajmitch> :1:> apt-cache -i unmet |grep Package |wc -l
<ajmitch> 226
<ajmitch> siretart: yes
<siretart> slomo: ask me again tonight :)
<ajmitch> we've got a few unmet deps according to a quick count there
<slomo> siretart: ok :)
<lophyte> sent
<phanatic> hey raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<\sh> why can't hp deliver blades with pxe boot enabled by default...*gnarf*
<siretart> dholbach: do we want to use tags for uvf approval this time?
<dholbach> hum
<dholbach> why not 'motu-uvf'?
<siretart> dholbach: I think we can track uvf request more easily after they got approved
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> hmhm
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> slomo: what do you think?
<siretart> dholbach: the current process is, that after it got approved, the task gets assigned to someone.
<siretart> and after that reassignemt, we loose the track that it once was an uvf request
<dholbach> siretart: we can stay subscribed to it and track the status, no?
<slomo> siretart, dholbach: i don't care... subscribing worked fine last time but tags would probably work fine too
<slomo> siretart: that's why we don't assign but subscribe
<siretart> true as well. hm
<ajmitch> keep it consistent, subscribe
<ajmitch> every other team works by subscribing
<siretart> ok
<siretart> so this is the authoritative worklist for the uvf team: https://launchpad.net/people/motu-uvf/+subscribedbugs
<siretart> luckily only one request so far :)
<ajmitch> great
<slomo> does universe freeze start today already? i thought 28th september
<ajmitch> it should be for people who have packages ready, not for random requests
* Nafallo thought so to
<ajmitch> slomo: you're right, but we want stuff in place before then
<ajmitch> night all
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
<dholbach>  sleep tight ajmitch
<dholbach> hey bddebian
<bddebian> HI Daniel
<Nafallo> gnight ajmitch
<fabo> i have uploaded transkode 0.6b2 and always nothing on revu.tauware.de
<fabo> there's a previous version 0.5b already on revu but not uploded by me
<fabo> no revu admin around ?
<Hobbsee> fabo: is yours listed further down that page?
<fabo> package yes but not my version on revu.tauware.de
<fabo> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2261
<bddebian> Doh, what time is meeting today?
<Fujitsu> Which meeting?
<Fujitsu> CC started 3 hours ago...
<lophyte> and is still going.
<bddebian> Oh fuck
<Q-FUNK> oops
<Fujitsu> bddebian, still going for quite some time.
<Hobbsee> haha, yeah
<Hobbsee> they're still not oone :P
<Fujitsu> Why, bddebian?
<Hobbsee> *done
<Q-FUNK> well, not today for me
<bddebian> I was going to speak for someone...
<Fujitsu> And there's a fair bit to cover.
<Q-FUNK> -> sauna
<Fujitsu> bddebian, who?
<Fujitsu> Currently doing Lie Ex, people before that have been done.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: I don't remember.. My mind is mush lately :'-(
<Fujitsu> :(
<bddebian> I hate my freakin' life right now.. :-(
<Nafallo> bddebian: aye! me as well.
<Nafallo> bddebian: but my own...
<Nafallo> ajmitch: ping :_)
<Nafallo> :-)
<AnAnt> dholbach: no one answered the elinks-full email
<xerxas> is there some logs of the chan ?
<LaserJock> xerxas: which channel?
<LaserJock> this one?
<xerxas> this one , and also desktop
<xerxas> if there is
<LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<crimsun> AnAnt: most people are fairly busy. I'll look in a bit.
<Q-FUNK> howdy!  if a DD is available to sponsor the upload to Debian, I have fixed a couple of bugs specific to Ubuntu on one of my packages.
<AnAnt> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: err...specific to Ubuntu but you want uploaded to Debian?
<crimsun> (you're probably better off asking in debian-mentors)
<Q-FUNK> it changes nothing for the debian package and makes it finally work on ubuntu, just by changing the permissions on a file.
<crimsun> right, a sync
<Q-FUNK> first a sponsored uploa,d then a sync.
<xerxas> LaserJock:  thanks !
<xerxas> I found what I need :)
<Q-FUNK> * Changed backend permissions to 6700 for Ubuntu (LP #36093, #42147).
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: again, debian-mentors
<Q-FUNK> no
<Q-FUNK> wrong place to ask
<Q-FUNK> too many ubuntu haters there
<AnAnt> ?
<AnAnt> debian ppl hate ubuntu ?
<Q-FUNK> some do.  thank goodness, not all of them. :)
<crimsun> sigh, it has nothing to do with Ubuntu. If you want a package uploaded into Debian, you'd ask in the channel(s) relevant to Debian.
<hub> how do I exclude somme documentation files with cdbs?
<hub> hey Q-FUNK
<AnAnt> hub: is cdbs easy to use ?
<Q-FUNK> hub :)
<hub> AnAnt: yeah
* Q-FUNK loves CDBS
<AnAnt> hub: easier that debhelper ?
<hub> AnAnt: it uses debhelper
<AnAnt> ok
* LaserJock still has reservations about CDBS
<LaserJock> it looks cool though
<LaserJock> and I didn't think debian-mentors had very many Ubuntu haters
<crimsun> meaning "it can use debhelper if you include the .mk"
<LaserJock> I found sponsors pretty quickly
<hub> LaserJock: I don't create a new package without using CDBS
<hub> LaserJock: I'd rather not have to maintaine rules
<Riddell> hub: DEB_INSTALL_DOCS_package = -Xfoo
<hub> Riddell: ah ok
<Riddell> I'm guessing :)
<AnAnt> hub: is there a quick tutorial for using CDBS ?
<hub> AnAnt: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: I've had bad experiences there in the past.  you own mileage may vary :)
<AnAnt> hub: so I still must use dh_make to create the debian/ directory
<hub> AnAnt: I copy stuff over
<AnAnt> oh
* thom sighs at blind use of cdbs
<Riddell> thom: where?
<thom> Riddell: everywhere.anywhere
<hub> Riddell: will you be at aKademy?
<LaserJock> of course
<Riddell> hub: sure
<Riddell> I need to learn how to run akademy for next year
<LaserJock> it isn't a magical black box if everybody knows how to use it properly ;-)
<hub> Riddell: in scottland?
<Riddell> yes
<thom> LaserJock: right, but i don't like magic at the best of times
<hub> Riddell: see you there anyway. I arrive Sunday
<Riddell> groovy
<hub> I have to remember how to get to the tcd
<hub> I did for Guadec 2003 :-)
<thom> i remember very little of guadec 2k3
<LaserJock> thom: me neither, that's why i don't use it much yet
<hub> thom: well, it was a last minute attendance, sort of
<hub> thom: I was job-less
<thom> i think http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossburton/234077202/ sums up gu4dec very well for me
<thom> hub: i was just mostly drunk
<hub> thom: I was nively drunk too
<hub> mjg59 looks funny
<hub> I have heard that he is coming too
<thom> he was amazingly hung over
<thom> to akademy? yeah, think he and robot101 are
<hub> thom: will you be there?
* hub is going there not for his employer
<hub> :-)
<thom> nope, i have a release to do for work this week so the weekend is gonna be busy
<hub> ah ok
<hub> who do you work for?
<thom> http://www.businessweek.com/print/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2006/db20060724_713810.htm
<hub> I think I know a friend who work for them
<hub> well he didnt' tell me who the company was nor the project
<hub> well it is. got confirmation
<thom> heh
<thom> small world
<hub> thom: you work for them?
<thom> yup
<Adri2000> hello all
<Riddell> thom: mjg59 is going to akademy?
<thom> Riddell: yeah, afaik
<hub> Riddell: I have seen him on the wiki of departure
<hub> more crazy people
<hub> with free beer, it is dangerous
<iapx8088> hi
<iapx8088> I would need some clarification about revision
<iapx8088> I did upload my package, and now?
<iapx8088> I must wait for someone to review it?
<tseng> you can revise it any time
<iapx8088> mmh i see
<iapx8088> I cannot revise a package I made, it's better if someone else does
<iapx8088> of course if I find an error, I could reload the update.
<iapx8088> omg my english is awful in those two rows.
<tseng> right
<tseng> revise is not the same as review
<iapx8088> haaaa ok I see
<tseng> you cant review your own package
<iapx8088> okok
<tseng> you can revise it :) update it with  fix
<iapx8088> :D
<iapx8088> thanks
<iapx8088> no at the moment I would need someone to review it
<iapx8088> the legal part, especially
<lfittl> iapx8088: which package is it?
<iapx8088> spice
<iapx8088> I had some useful links to previous debian discussions in the comment
<iapx8088> the ones that the form allowed me to put into
<iapx8088> of course I already did the dirty work for the person that will threat the legal questions.
<iapx8088> myself, I'm an engineer and not very fond of licences and stuff
<lfittl> where exactly did you find the license in the upstream tarball? (the source files don't seem to have complete license headers)
<iapx8088> ok
<iapx8088> wait
<iapx8088> lfittl, the licence I saw was in debian/ and was here due the fact that it's a spin-off from the unofficial debian port
<iapx8088> but I believe there's a copy in the upstream tarball
<iapx8088> I'm searching
<lfittl> iapx8088: ok, this seems to be a very complicated situation, have you talked to the debian port maintainer already?
<iapx8088> lfittl,  no answer from it
<lfittl> :/
<iapx8088> sent two emails
<lfittl> k, maybe I will take a look at it later this week, as it would require some time to review it
<iapx8088> ok
<iapx8088> lfittl, I understand that spice is under the oldest BSD licence, so no GPLed code may be linked against it, so Debian refuses to package it.
<iapx8088> but basically, the licence is very free
<iapx8088> and if you asks berkeley, they don't answer, the ngspice team already pleaded them to change the license.
<iapx8088> anyway, my package like the debian one, is sort of a wrapper, it works only if You provide the source
<lfittl> iapx8088: basically, apart from being non-commercial, it is free, but the source files don't have the correct license headers, which means the chance that this will get into ubuntu is very small
<iapx8088> I understand
<Q-FUNK> any comment on bug #58392 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58392 in upgrade-system "Could not calculate the upgrade..." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58392
<iapx8088> I feared that
<iapx8088> I believe it will end like the Debian port, staying unofficial.
<lfittl> still better than having no package available at all, just promote it somewhere so that people can find it ;)
<iapx8088> no problem for me, but it's a pity, SPICE is the mother of all simulators.
<iapx8088> and quite a reference.
<iapx8088> well, shame on berkeley and their attitude
<lfittl> yep, at least their attitude concerning licenses
<iapx8088> :
<iapx8088> :\
<Tutenstein> hi, what is the first step to getting involved in development...I have got much free time nowadays...
<iapx8088> lfittl, what i don't understand very well, is how ngspice (a spinoff) is in the repos...
<iapx8088> I mean, you take someone else code, you tweak it, and then it's ok?
<ajmitch> morning
<iapx8088> there's something weird in the situation
<lfittl> it seems very weird to me, are there many people interested in having this packaged?
<iapx8088> mmmh I believe so.
<iapx8088> Imho yes, pratically all the el* engineers
<iapx8088> they resort to wine+ltspice actually
<lfittl> can't they use the spinoff?
<iapx8088> probably, but the good in spice is that it's a reference, while in the spinoff they tweaked a little the algorithms, so you can't no longer say SPICE says so.
<lfittl> ah, I see
<iapx8088> if you say ngspice says so, you are to be answered, and who the hell is it the guy behind ngspice?
<iapx8088> spice, old and crusty, bad and slow, is a safe reference,
<Q-FUNK> morning ajmitch
<lfittl> morning ajmitch
<iapx8088> but I would have to see better the work under ngspice, who knows? maybe they didn't tweak the algos
<iapx8088> anyway I see the point.
<iapx8088> If there's a way to put spice in ubuntu, I would be more than eager to mantain it.
<iapx8088> if not, long live ngspice :D
<lfittl> sure, and maybe there is a way to get it in, but it will take some time, so don't expect it to be in edgy
<iapx8088> we have time, we waited 100 years for SPICE
<iapx8088> :D
<lfittl> :)
<iapx8088> the ngspice situation is more than interesting for me, I'm developing internally a spice on steroids and it would be great to put it on ubuntu
<iapx8088> I mean, I'm leaving alone the algos, and trying to settle the little big problems around.
<iapx8088> it would be a great thing, but what's the point of making it if I cannot relase it and the distros cannot package it...all lost work
<iapx8088> maybe I should drop a note to them
<Mez> siretart: ping
<siretart> Mez: pong
<Mez> siretart: one sec - iot's regarding tiber
<Mez> siretart: can you install automake1.9 on tiber please?
<bddebian> Mez!!!!!! :-)
<bddebian> Hey siretart
<Mez> hey bddebian
<Mez> siretart: ignore last message
<Mez> I forgot to set the path to autoconf on the commnand line
<siretart> Mez: done
<siretart> huhu bddebian
<LaserJock> hi siretart
<ajmitch> hello siretart
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> hola ajmitch
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
<siretart> n'evening LaserJock and ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock and ajmitch
<ajmitch> one big round of introductions...
* Q-FUNK is slowly coming up to speed on launchpad usage
* Q-FUNK wonders what to do with bug #58392 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58392 in upgrade-system "Could not calculate the upgrade..." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58392
<siretart> Q-FUNK: I had a friend who told me that launchpad was quite confusing at first. I think you get used to it after some time..
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: it also doesn't have nearly enough info
<Q-FUNK> siretart: the modal menus are what's confusing.  they are considered a big no-no of UI design, usually.
<Nafallo> fabbione compared it to doom :-)
<Nafallo> IIRC
<Q-FUNK> heh
<ajmitch> Nafallo: a monster on every page?
<Q-FUNK> :D
<siretart> has anyone heard about a command 'lessdif'? (note the one 'f')
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hehe, something like that ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, well I count ~10 less packages on REVU after REVU day :/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: plus a  number of comments & updates
<LaserJock> well sure
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we just have to keep reviewing until freeze day
<LaserJock> I'm wondering more about efficency though
<ajmitch> in what way?
<LaserJock> are we putting a lot of work into stuff that isn't making it into Universe?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> feel free to suggest how we can see what won't make it into universe :)
<LaserJock> well, we'd need to analyze the problem first
<LaserJock> is it that we just have low quality packages
<ajmitch> low barrier of entry
<LaserJock> or is it that we are hitting a lot of copyright/license  problems
<ajmitch> people upload packages, expect instant feedback, and don't update
<LaserJock> or is it that people aren't getting feedback fast enough and give up
<ajmitch> far more quality issues than licensing, from what I've seen
<LaserJock> k
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: that would be them missing the part about droping by here or to -devle to ask for feedback
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: which they don't always get
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: why not?
<ajmitch> because people aren't always around & available
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> so impatience
<ajmitch> sure :)
<ajmitch> we can't do much about that
<iapx8088> I'm new, but I expect to start reviewing, not just sit here and wait for someone to slash my ill-driven package.
<iapx8088> ;-(
<Q-FUNK> is there any way we could incorporate some sort of mentoring in a more systematic way, so that true bleu beginers get a helping hand for their first few packages?
<ajmitch> we've tried, there's a list of willing mentors
<Q-FUNK> at debian, the systematic feedback I get from sponsors and from my AM have helped me increase the quality of my packages really quick.
<ajmitch> in debian, there are a lot more people to sponsor & give feedback
<Q-FUNK> call me silly, but I think that forcing people to first go thru sponsored uploads with sponsor's feedback turns out to have benefits, on that aspect
<LaserJock> that's what we do
<Q-FUNK> where it goes silly is that right next to it, the step towards DD via NM is huge
* ajmitch has the experience of debian as well :)
<Q-FUNK> I'm wondering if there's any way to find a better balance betwen the sometimes lax quality of packages due to poor feedback and the 3-year queue in NM?
<LaserJock> mentors.debian.net currently has about the same number of packages as REVU
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: I thought that was called MOTU ;-)
<Q-FUNK> ;)
<shawarma> ajmitch: (about the nm plugins) I had them in my own repository and I noticed that they were referenced all over the place, so I figured I might as well upload them, so people can just get them directly from the universe goodness instead of adding my repository. They really shouldn't trust people like me. :-)
<ajmitch> shawarma: uploading stuff over what other people have packaged isn't polite :)
<iapx8088> can I say something, the word of a brand new-blue?
<shawarma> ajmitch: Oh, shit, they were already there?
<ajmitch> yes
<Q-FUNK> between the (percieved but not always true) low quality that sometimes slip into universe and the black beret hazing of debian, there's gotta be a middle ground
<LaserJock> creating better MOTUs :-)
* Q-FUNK notices an appetizing nickname on the channel
<shawarma> ajmitch: I didn't even notice. I was reading the NetworkManager FAQ and saw them referenced, so someone clearly wants/needs them.
<ajmitch> we try & keep the quality bar high enough for universe
<Q-FUNK> shawarma: gotta admit that your nickname rings of delicious grilled meat ;)
<ajmitch> sure, some people may be stricter on quality than others, but I'd hope that we're not letting through obvious crack :)
<iapx8088> I believe that the stuff should be on a single website, the wiki and all;  I believe there should be just one registration for everything.
<shawarma> Q-FUNK: One of these days, I'll make up a silly story about it meaning something obscene in Danish. :-)
<ajmitch> iapx8088: give it time
<Q-FUNK> shawarma: some religious cartoonish reference comes to mind :-P
<shawarma> ajmitch: I actually think crack has an easier time sneaking into Debian.
<ajmitch> iapx8088: we're limited in what we can work with, and the time it takes to develop stuff
<iapx8088> ajmitch, yes I understand, of course there were suggestions :D
<shawarma> ajmitch: Have you seen the axiom package? I still wake up screaming sometimes after merging that one.
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> shawarma: no, I don't touch most packages
* Q-FUNK points out that he's been on #debian-ubuntu for the last while and is a willing candidate to help bridge the gap
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: bridge the gap in what way, though?
* ajmitch has seen efforts to help bridge the gap come & go :)
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: I'm mostly interested in uploading as much as possible directly into debian, to thin down on the amount of ubuntu-specific diffs if possible
* LaserJock isn't fond oof thouse
<iapx8088> why don't starting categorizing people? I mean, I'm an electronic eng, I could test both the package and the program itself for all the elettr* packages. So could a graphic, and so could a med.
<LaserJock> iapx8088: we have those
<iapx8088> I don't know if presently there are el programs in revu, the name doesn't always speak. If I'd know, I'd be reviewing them just now.
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: I'm fairly sure that all of my packages in Ubuntu are also in Debian
<shawarma> ajmitch: Well, to be fair, only the network-manager-pptp has been touched since back in April.
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: as my lp page says, I'm doing NM and yet i've been handing out ubuntu CDs for the last couple of years.
<ajmitch> shawarma: that was the main one I was asking about, since I was reviewing it with plug :)
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: there's still tons of packages that receive useful patches in buntu that don't make it in debian
<ajmitch> of course
<shawarma> ajmitch: "with plug"?
<ajmitch> ah, you still have T&S to go :)
<ajmitch> shawarma: Plug, aka Craig Box
<Q-FUNK> I subscribe to madduck's idea of sympathetic DDs doing everything they can to help merge and upload
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: and I do that
<LaserJock> I don't think there should be teams for that
<ajmitch> I was uploading stuff to debian until late last night :)
<shawarma> ajmitch: Hmmm... assume that I've just stumbled in from the street and don't know anything about anything... What is Craig Box?
<shawarma> ajmitch: I'm totally lost here.
<ajmitch> shawarma: someone who has his package on revu
<LaserJock> this should be DD and MOTU wide thing
<shawarma> ajmitch: Ah...
<LaserJock> DDs should be open to looking at Ubuntu patches, and MOTUs should be open to sending them
<LaserJock> training is a part of that
<shawarma> ajmitch: I thought you were reviewing it with plug as in "I'm using this new magical wand called "plug" to review it".
<ajmitch> no
<shawarma> ajmitch: I see what you mean now.
<shawarma> ajmitch: Will anything be messed up if you nuke my uploads of that package?
<ajmitch> yes, it'll take out the whole package
<shawarma> ajmitch: upload no. 3190 and 3192
<shawarma> ajmitch: Ah, ok.
<ajmitch> iirc nukes don't just work on uploads now
<shawarma> ajmitch: Ok. I'll send plug an e-mail asking him to reupload. I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
<ajmitch> he'll probably be on irc later
* ajmitch has to head out to work, bbl
<phanatic> good evening
<lfittl> evening phanatic
<phanatic> hi lfittl
<Plug> shawarma: got your e-mail
<Plug> no prob wrt toes
<Plug> I worked with ajmee to make the thing actually go for me :)
<ajmitch> might be worth seeing what can be picked out of both packages
<Plug> I started with Soren's original package as a base
<ajmitch> I see the recent change http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=3190&upid2=3192 seems to get stuff out of being placed directly in /usr/lib
<bddebian> Heya phanatic, lfittl
<iapx8088> I gotta go
<iapx8088> lfittl, let me know if there's any news
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<iapx8088> bbbye
<Mez> siretart: ping
<shawarma> Plug: so... Do you want to "keep it" or should we just leave my updated package there? I don't mind either way.
<siretart> Mez: yes?
<Mez> siretart: any chance of updating the sources.list on tiber so that it pulls the sources from edgy when you apt-get source ?
<Plug> I'd like to keep it at this point
<Plug> but I'll check the differences out with you
<Plug> cos at this point I have no idea what you've done
<siretart> Mez: you could use an apt-get option to use a custom sources.list. would that help you?
<Mez> siretart: I was just wondering-  as that how you used it before..,it's not  aproblem to get it manuallyt
<LaserJock> siretart: will *only* adding a deb-src line allow you to do that?
<Mez> LaserJock, it did before ;)
<shawarma> LaserJock: What else would you add?
<LaserJock> deb
<shawarma> LaserJock: No need.
<LaserJock> but we don't want that on tiber ;-)
<shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, no. Is it still running Breezy?
<LaserJock> I'm just wondering if you put in a deb-src line for edgy
<LaserJock> and you run apt-get source
<LaserJock> will it grab edgy
<shawarma> LaserJock: Yes.
<LaserJock> isn't there a way to set it up so you can specify the repo?
<shawarma> Plug: Ok. I've noticed a bug in my most recent upload, but if you're reworking it, it doesn't matter.
<shawarma> LaserJock: apt-get source -t distro packagename   ?
<LaserJock> something like that
<shawarma> LaserJock: No, exactly that. :-)
<LaserJock> a waaaay long time ago I remember trying something like that on Fedora
<LaserJock> seemed like you didn't need the -t though, like it was after the packagename
<shawarma> LaserJock: It works here. My build server has both dapper and edgy configured and I can do it like that.
<siretart> I'd like to get tiber updated to breezy first
<LaserJock> I thought it was running breezy?
<siretart> but I'd like to do this with sistpoty
<Plug> shawarma: are you still working from the 'released' 0.6.2 source?
<LaserJock> is the machine actually located with you guys siretart?
<siretart> LaserJock: no, it is hosted at serverpronto.com
<Fujitsu> Oh no...
<Fujitsu> I've got bad memories of upgrading Breezy->Dapper with them.
<siretart> Fujitsu: so?
<ajmitch> siretart: we can probably manage that in steps :)
<shawarma> Plug: "released"?
<shawarma> Plug: My starting point was a checkout of the vpn directories of the gnome cvs with the RELEASE_0_6_3 tag (or something like that).
<Plug> Right
<shawarma> Plug: ...since edgy uses 0.6.3. The dapper package uses 0.6.2.
<Plug> there were lots of fixes committed to HEAD that I don't think are on a release branch yet
<Plug> but we made sure the package worked with the dapper version as a priority
<shawarma> Plug: Are the dbus interfaces compatible?
<Plug> they haven't changed
<Plug> the dict stuff is in NM HEAD
<shawarma> Plug: Yes.
<Plug> but we have also got some nice detection stuff that will use the right interface for the right version
<shawarma> Plug: At least the interface for passing ip configuration info from the vpn plugin to networkmanager has changed since 0.6.3 release.
<Plug> yep
<shawarma> Plug: incompatibly so.
<Plug> put it this way, my package should work for 0.6.2 and 0.6.3
<Plug> and possibly for anything higher, but that wasn't a current concern
<Plug> as edgy is (I assume) sticking with 0.6.3
<shawarma> Plug: Right. the same probably goes for mine. I don't think there were any changes in this area between 0.6.2 and 0.6.3.
<shawarma> Plug: It will not work with anything after 0.6.3, I think.
<Kyral> LaserJock: ping
<Plug> your original package didn't work for me as I needed to specify 'refuse-eap' to connect to my (Windows 2003) VPN server
<Plug> and there was no way of doing this, or specifying extra options, from the interface
<Plug> That's one of the many things we fixed :)
<shawarma> Plug: About a week after 0.6.3 was released rml committed a change to the dbus interface for passing ip configuration. Not the dict stuff, but just an extra parameter for the method call.
<Plug> shawarma: accounted for
<Plug> it was mss, iirc?
<shawarma> Plug: Oh, cool! You made actual changes? :-)
<Plug> Hell yes! :)
<shawarma> Plug: Might be.
<Plug> I spent a good number of hours with the author, working in CVS
<Plug> we fixed all number of nasties
<shawarma> Plug: Just for that plugin or general networkmanager crap?
<Plug> Just for that plugin.
<Plug> in saying that, some of the rest of the bugs are fixed in newer NMs
<ajmitch> Plug: great, so the remaining fix before it gets uploaded is probably just moving files from /usr/lib
<Plug> such as "if you click save, you can't then click edit on the same connection - you have to quit the dialog first"
<shawarma> Plug: Well then. Please upload your shiny, new, nicer plugin to revu again. The changes to move the stuff out of /usr/bin is really simple. I can make a diff just for that stuff if you want it.
<ajmitch> and then we can advocate it & bug someone else to review it
<Plug> the usr/lib thing is a build parameter I believe
<Plug> its marked on another package anyway
<Plug> I just need to turn that PC on (which probably means after 5pm tonight, in ~8 hours)
<shawarma> Plug: Ok. How did you manage to work around the added parameter in the dbus method call?
<Plug> commented out the line in a patch in the package, I believe
<Plug> would need the source in front of me to confirm
<siretart> gnarf
<shawarma> Plug: Oh. :-) I thought you cast an introspection spell and figured out if networkmanager wanted the extra parameter and passed it depending on that.
<Plug> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/network-manager-pptp-0609121645/network-manager-pptp_0.6.3+cvs20060819-0ubuntu8.diff.gz
<Plug> 02_nm_ppp_starter.patch
<Plug> nothing quite that smart I'm afraid! :)
<shawarma> Plug: Yes, i see it.
<shawarma> Plug: Not quite as magical as I thought it would be.
<shawarma> Plug: :-)
<zul> /win 13
<ajmitch> ftw!
<siretart> Nafallo: welcome to MOTUMedia :)
<Nafallo> siretart: yay! thanks :-)
<siretart> slomo: around?
<slomo> siretart: yes
<siretart> slomo: I'm just talking to panthera, a52dec maintainer in debian. he tells me  that he would like to update it to something newer, but sam didn't commit anything since may
<slomo> siretart: too bad... look at mplayer then, they have their diffs in the a52 directory
<lophyte> anyone have a palm pilot?
<siretart> slomo: I'd rather suggest to compile against the internal a52 for now
<slomo> siretart: then we have to take the internal ffmpeg too
<siretart> *shrug*
<slomo> Nafallo: ^--- so change mplayer back to compile against internal ffmpeg please
<siretart> I'd rather like to have a working mplayer. we have tons of other stuff to do as well
<Nafallo> okidoki
<siretart> the xine merge gets more interesting than I thought.. *sigh*
<Nafallo> I comment it in case we change our mind about that.
<slomo> so let's hope that gstreamer takes over the world ;) it's always fun to update/merge the packages because of almost no work :P
<Nafallo> hmm, we _are_ using bzr, I might aswell remove it ;-)
<Q-FUNK> must we always sync from unstabl eor can it also be from incoming?
<bddebian> You can ask for experimental/incoming I think but I don't know how common that is
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: by the time they get to the sync, it may be in the pool anyway
<Q-FUNK> experimentla would make sense for another one of my packages, actually
<bddebian> Later folks
<Q-FUNK> for gaim-irchelper, ubuntu already thinghtened up the build-depends to gaim-dev 2.0beta3 a while back
<Q-FUNK> i did the same for debian, but only for experimental
<Q-FUNK> getting ubuntu to use my experimental package would eliminate the need for a manual sync
<tseng> tell seb128
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-20
<lophyte> anyone experienced any problems with gnome-pilot?
* Fujitsu grumbles... They're taking our power out for 5 hours in 15 minutes :(
<ajmitch> ouch
<Fujitsu> Yah.
<Fujitsu> I don't see how they can be allowed to do that.
<plugwash> 5 hours does seem excessive
<Fujitsu> Yeah :(
* Fujitsu rapidly files 3 sync requests.
<ajmitch> they're probably replacing a transformer or something
<Fujitsu> But still.
<Fujitsu> Just minutes to go...
<Fujitsu> I'
<Fujitsu> I'd better poweroff the server...
<Fujitsu> Goodbye 70-day uptime :'(
<lfittl> ffmpeg has a bug that makes some programs FTBFS fixed in a Debian NMU. anyone against a merge? (only difference debian -> ubuntu is adding an epoch)
<slomo> lfittl: i merged ffmpeg yesterday... what's the bugnumber?
<lfittl> 386458;
<lfittl> argh, 386458
<slomo> lfittl: bad timing it seems...
<slomo> :(
<lfittl> yep :/
<lfittl> do you mind if I merge it?
<slomo> already started ;)
<lfittl> err, you mean you already started, or I already started and should go ahead?
<slomo> lfittl: i already started... test build is running :)
<lfittl> ah, ok :)
<lophyte> hey guys, do you have any suggestions for me to practice?
<slomo> lfittl: thanks for noticing
<crimsun> to practice what?
<xerxas> I want to push a revision on launchpad, what is the url tu push to ? (the branch is at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/pymsn/ubuntu)
<lophyte> fixing packages and stuff
<lfittl> slomo: no problem, noticed it because blender FTBFS without any obvious reason ;)
<phanatic> xerxas: sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/pymsn/ubuntu
<xerxas> phanatic: thanks
<terlmann> What would you guys think about a new package managment system(frontend+core) for debian ubuntu 6+1? and how about naming it "Stymie"?
<xerxas> phanatic:  I get that :
<xerxas> Permission denied (publickey).
<xerxas> bzr: ERROR: Connection error: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net:None:
<xerxas> but my key is regitred
<xerxas> I think I pushed a release to that url on the same machine 2 or 3 hours ago
<phanatic> xerxas: maybe you don't have write permissions? (are you a member of the telepathy team?)
<phanatic> hm, that's interesting
<xerxas> yes
<crimsun> you're missing a username
<crimsun> sftp://username@bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/pymsn/ubuntu
<xerxas> k
<xerxas> :)
<phanatic> xerxas: yeah, you need that, if it's not the same as your local username. sorry
<crimsun> (make sure you have python-paramiko installed, too)
<phanatic> xerxas: i just don't have such diffuculties :)
<xerxas> sounds clear when someone says it
<phanatic> crimsun: if he already succeeded to push from the same machine, it should be there :)
<xerxas> phanatic: I removed the directory
<crimsun> well, yes. If he already pushed it successfully, the command would be in his shell history.
<xerxas> i'm new to bzr
<xerxas> and as ususally when I use a vcs , I don't understand
<xerxas> crimsun: I think it's also in the .bzr directory of the branch
<xerxas> don't know why it's not here
<xerxas> the launchpad.net web page isn't updated in real time ?
<terlmann> What would you guys think about a new package managment system(frontend+core) for debian ubuntu 6+1? and how about naming it "Stymie"?
<crimsun> xerxas: probably hasn't caught up yet
<crimsun> terlmann: "debian ubuntu 6+1"?
<xerxas> ok
<phanatic> xerxas: it takes some time to sync
<xerxas> but I removed the stuff and did a bzr get
<xerxas> and it seems to be ther e
<xerxas> it's confusing when learning to use bzr
<xerxas> so , to sum up
<xerxas> bzr get url
<xerxas> the vi stuff
<xerxas> then
<xerxas> bzr commit, write a comment
<xerxas> and bzr push
<xerxas> right ?
<crimsun> generally, although I pull again before I attempt to push
<terlmann> crimsun? edgy eft?
<crimsun> terlmann: meaning a new PM system for 6.10?
<ajmitch> terlmann: you'd need to give very good reasons to change what we have
<crimsun> and metrics, moreover
<terlmann> I have reasons.
<xerxas> good
<xerxas> :)
<terlmann> Apt & it's Gui frontend,Synaptic, were GREEEAATT for their time,but no more.with the size of files & the number of downloads worldwide,a new system needs to be used.something that can pause& resume updating.
<terlmann> something that more efficiently handles the need for servers to benearby,decreasing download times.something that might be called Stymie .
<xerxas> then it's just a feature of apt
* ajmitch gets it in stereo
<xerxas> isn't it ?
<terlmann> no
<ajmitch> terlmann: you don't need to paste the same in both channels
<plugwash> btw you can ctrl-c apt during download, and packages already downloaded will be kept
<crimsun> naming is important, yes, but do you provide code that actually does something smartpm doesn't already do?
<terlmann> a replacment,more secure,more reliable for people with slower connections.
<crimsun> so what makes "Stymie" more effective than smartpm?
<terlmann> ajmitch-you dont need to read it twice.but some who arent here will need to read it.
<crimsun> actually, what's the LP url you mention?
<Plug> I'm only here and only read it once
<Plug> I feel so unloved
<ajmitch> poor Plug needs a hug
<Plug> (starting conversations in two channels is a bad idea; tell people in one to join the other for the discussion, else it forks)
<xerxas> :)
<Plug> I hear hobbsee hugs are being offered by CC members
<ajmitch> that's worrying
<terlmann> crimsun: no code.just a set of goals and a name. https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/stymie .and i am not a web master,so the wiki points to google.someone needs to make one.lets get on this thing together.
* crimsun sighs
<crimsun> dude, 6.10?! as a milestone?
<terlmann> yep
<crimsun> that's less than two months away
<ajmitch> beta freeze starts this week
<crimsun> (and what does firewall have to do with stymie?)
<slomo> and beta freeze is tomorrow so impossible
<terlmann> now.here. we know what is needed and,we all have felt apt-get's limits,even though it is the best of all.
<terlmann> so lets take the code and reshape it.
<crimsun> not going to happen for 6.10. Period.
* ajmitch hasn't seen any concrete proposal or even a list of what actually needs improved
<slomo> terlmann: so what are the advantages over smart? and even the apt maintainers don't want to touch the existing apt code anymore so a rewrite might be better ;)
* Nafallo <3 apt-get/dpkg as it is
<xerxas> terlmann: what is your problem with apt ?
<xerxas> concretly , what is the weakness of apt to you ?
<xerxas> about slowlinks ? what is the relationship with firewall ?
<dem> hey peoples, could some one get my application into edgy's universe? http://drapes.mindtouchsoftware.com/ pretty please
<terlmann> all-It just a name.
<crimsun> dem: if you want it in Edgy, please do the legwork
<terlmann> I cant.
<crimsun> this is not a channel where people come to beg for things to be done for them
<terlmann> yea.you want your name on it?
<dem> crimsun: it's got the debian directory and everything in source tarball
<crimsun> dem: then please see the section in this channel's topic regarding REVU
<xerxas> dem:  you have the debian directory, for dapper ?
<dem> xerxas: yeah, it's setup for dapper right now
<xerxas> does your package runs on edgy, do you have a pbuilder ? (you maye want me to try build a package for you ?)
<dem> since in edgy the mono stuff got split into like 20 or so packages..
<xerxas> ahh
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> won't help then :)
<dem> xerxas: i built the dapper packages using pbuilder
<slomo> dem: 65 or something to be exact ;)
<terlmann> xerxas: terlmann: what is your problem with apt ?
<terlmann> the problem is..
<ajmitch> slomo: not that many, really
<dem> slomo: yeah something crazy
<terlmann> with the size of files & the number of downloads worldwide,a new system needs to be used.something that can pause& resume updating.
<terlmann> something that more efficiently handles the need for servers to be nearby,decreasing download times
<ajmitch> dem: you package will have to be built for edgy for us to consider it
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<xerxas> terlmann: you already told that
<slomo> ajmitch: apt-cache showsrc mono | grep ^Binary | cut -d: -f2 | sed 's;,;\n;g' | wc -l   => 66
<ajmitch> slomo: get splitting!
<dem> well i can track down the dependencies for edgy and all, assuming I do that what else do I need?
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> dem: make a source package for edgy, put it on revu
<ajmitch> make sure it follows the debian CLI policy
<dem> debian has a cli policy?
<xerxas> is there an update systems that allows binary diff only to be transfered ?
<ajmitch> dem: yes
<ajmitch> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<xerxas> debian does this (sort of terlmann idea) but only for apt-get update : http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/439
<xerxas> I think suse does that for the upgrade itself
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<chillywilly> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, chillywilly
<LaserJock> hi!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> zul: stupid question, what is the kernel written in?
<bddebian> Mostly C and some assembler
<ajmitch> LaserJock: C, some assembly
<LaserJock> k, that's what I tough
<LaserJock> thought
<zul> LaserJock: cobol ;)
<bddebian> haha
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> well, it'd be Fortran for me ;-)
* zul has nightmares about that class
<bddebian> I liked Fortran
<bddebian> Better than freakin' COBOL
<LaserJock> Fortran was my first real programming experience
<LaserJock> unfortunately that means OO programing is a little tough to get my mind around sometimes
<bddebian> Heh, I heard that :-)
<LaserJock> now I just do stuff in Python
<LaserJock> but still procedurally
<LaserJock> my poor lab mate is learning how to program for the first time.. with Fortran
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> my boss know Fortran the best
<LaserJock> then perl and C
<LaserJock> but he doesn't really teach it to us
<LaserJock> he just gives us some program from his grad school days
<LaserJock> and says "Have at it"
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> and then he doesn't want us wasting time taking programing classes
<LaserJock> heh
<zul> i did fortran in college, pretty useless for me now a days
<crimsun> well, your boss isn't entirely silly in that oapproach
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<crimsun> more often than not, programming classes teach syntax, which is the "wrong" way to understand languages
<bddebian> Yeah
<bddebian> Which is why I can't do shit. :-(  I know the syntax but nothing else :'-(
<crimsun> besides, you're a grad student; you're intelligent enough to work out the syntax yourself. Where he's going "wrong" is expecting you to accomplish all that in realtime. Most people have a difficult time doing that.
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<LaserJock> zul: I'm the only one in my group that uses anything *but* Fortran
<zul> LaserJock: heh..you are lucky then
<bddebian> LaserJock: Write everything in assembly, that'll learn ya :-)
<LaserJock> well, I keep talking about Python
<LaserJock> but my boss is too set in his ways, he doesn't have any reason to learn another language
<LaserJock> and I can't blame him
<LaserJock> but it does irritate me a little when I seem him preventing new grad students from using Python :/
<crimsun> that's not his fault, though
<crimsun> given enough motivation, anyone can be made to do learn Python
<crimsun> extra verb
<LaserJock> yeah, I know
<LaserJock> I just see people struggling
<LaserJock> and I can't do a whole lot about it
<crimsun> well, actually, you can if everyone's willing. Set up a different type of "lunch"
<LaserJock> I'm working with our sysadmin, who was in here last night, on a "Computing for Chemists" informal course
<ajmitch> so, what should our LoCoteam do? fix bugs by release? :)
<bddebian> Yes, all of them :-)
<ajmitch> ththose few that you may not get to
<crimsun> you've appointed bddebian to head your locoteam? nice!
<ajmitch> actually Plug is the willing victim
<Plug> yarr
<bddebian> I'm out lately :'-(
<Plug> I be walked on the plank
<bddebian> Not that I can do squat anyway
<Plug> our loco team has 2.5 people who could fix package bugs
<ajmitch> that's enough
<ajmitch> if we can interest mattb
<Plug> I had a beer with him on Monday
<Plug> he's unhappy at Debian atm :)
<ajmitch> what a surprise
<ajmitch> he's always welcome to work on ubuntu
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> hi LaserJock
<minghua> LaserJock: how is the work on Edgy going?
<minghua> sorry I didn't have time to help
<LaserJock> oh well, it's going
<ajmitch> the time is going far too quickly :)
<minghua> exactly, I haven't even found time to try dapper release yet, and now edgy is going to be ready soon
<bddebian> heh
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<bddebian> Hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<zakame> hi all! =)
<Toadstool> hey zakame
<rmjb> hello
<zakame> is flashplugin-nonfree borked today?
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> yo Toadstool rmjb bddebian
<rmjb> I got an update from backports for flash... got problems downloading and installing the package
<zakame> hmm
<zakame> borkage happens at the invocation of update-rc.d
<zakame> it uses `multiuser', which isn't defined even in the manpage :/
<Toadstool> hmm? why does flashplugin-nonfree use update-rc.d?
* Toadstool takes a look at the package
<zakame> uhh, at postinst, upgrade?
<Fujitsu> Is anybody working on the mplayer breakage?
* zakame perl -pe's/multiuser/defaults/' /var/lib/dpkg/info/flashplugin-nonfree.postinst
<zakame> Fujitsu: what about it? :)
<Fujitsu> It is broken at this time.
<Fujitsu> And would ideally be fixed :P
* zakame checks
<Toadstool> Fujitsu: what do you mean by "broken"? :)
<Fujitsu> It's well known, I believe:
<Fujitsu> mplayer: symbol lookup error: mplayer: undefined symbol: a52_resample
<zakame> bug 61222
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61222 in mplayer "mplayer doesn't start (linking error) a52_resample" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61222
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that one :)
<zakame> slomo seems to be hot on the trails of that one
<Toadstool> it's well known by those who actually have their edgy box less than 1000kms away :p
<Fujitsu> Hahah. Silly old Dapper.
<Toadstool> the only linux box available is my sarge server in Paris, with some chroots i set up 4 days ago :/
* Toadstool stops whining :p
<rmjb> hi again
<Toadstool> hey :)
<rmjb> so I'm running through the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<rmjb> and I just finished this page: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<Toadstool> yep?
<rmjb> how important is it for me to understand thoroughly what's on that page?
<rmjb> because the rules file is a little confusing
<LaserJock> mhm
<Toadstool> it's a basic one...
<Toadstool> er..
<Toadstool> forget what I said
<LaserJock> rmjb: don't worry too much about it
<rmjb> it's confusing to me cause I'm new to reading makefiles and the like
<LaserJock> rmjb: just look for the general idea
<rmjb> ok cool
<LaserJock> any particular thing that's confusing you?
<rmjb> umm, the debian/tmp/DEBIAN and other directories, is that the /tmp on the building system or does the building system create a tmp directory under the debian directory
<minghua> rmjb: under the debian/ dir
<rmjb> the syntax of this line: $(MAKE) INSTALL_PROGRAM="$(INSTALL_PROGRAM)" prefix=$$(pwd)/debian/tmp/usr install
<rmjb> and things like that
<bddebian> The build system creates debian/tmp
<bddebian> Or in some cases debian/<package_name>/foo depending on the build system
<rmjb> okay, cool... where did the usr/info, usr/man and usr/share directories come from?
<bddebian> rmjb: It again can depend on the build system.  Look to see if there are .dir and/or .install files
<rmjb> okay, that still confuses me a little. In this line: cd debian/tmp && mv usr/info usr/man usr/share
<minghua> Hmm, now that rmjb mentions it, I don't think I like the example debian/rules that much
<rmjb> it's going into the debian/tmp dir
<rmjb> then where are those usr directories moving from/to?
<minghua> rmjb: that means move debian/tmp/usr/man and debian/tmp/usr/info into debian/tmp/usr/share/
<minghua> rmjb: so that they become debian/tmp/usr/share/man and debian/tmp/usr/share/info
<LaserJock> minghua: well, it was there ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: good.  I was just going to ask you
<rmjb> ohh... okay, I forgot about the fact that mv could have more that 2 args...
<minghua> LaserJock: doesn't hello support ./configure --infodir= --mandir= ?
<rmjb> okay then only one last thing confuses me, and I guess it's because I don't know much about the make command
<rmjb> in $(MAKE) INSTALL_PROGRAM="$(INSTALL_PROGRAM)" prefix=$$(pwd)/debian/tmp/usr install
<LaserJock> minghua: have no idea, that is the Debian package
<rmjb> is it that make takes a command line arg in the format "INSTALL_PROGRAM=install" ?
<minghua> LaserJock: so you copied and pasted directly from hello source package?  I see.
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, that is the source package
<rmjb> the guide says it's right out of the source package
<minghua> yeah, sorry I commented without reading the whole page (but it's a long page...)
<LaserJock> hehe
<rmjb> yeah, this is day 2 of reading that one page
<LaserJock> well, hopefully I can figure out a way to do it better
<rmjb> it's good, maybe a statement that warns new people that if they don't understand the rules file fully yet they should still continue, it'll become clearer
<LaserJock> the problem is that it is structured from the most complex to the least complex scratch -> debhelper -> cdbs
<LaserJock> so if you can get over the hump it's downhill ;-)
<rmjb> right... good thing I asked then
<zakame> read up on debian-dir too :)
<rmjb> debian-dir?
<ajmitch> zakame: if you want to get into esoteric build systems..
<zakame> ajmitch: yeah :P
<Toadstool> who said yada? :p
<ajmitch> Toadstool: watch your language
<Toadstool> hehe
<rmjb> okay guys, thanks for the help, catch you all later
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: not that piece of crap..please
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: dont be filthy :P
<ajmitch> Toadstool: you have summoned Hobbsee...
<ajmitch> run now
* Hobbsee attacks Toadstool with her long and pointy stick
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i've just had a thought - if we filed a removal request for it, do you think they'd do it?
<ajmitch> no
<Hobbsee> pity...
<ajmitch> :0:> cat /var/lib/apt/lists/*Sources |grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends yada |grep Package: |wc -l
<ajmitch> 68
<ajmitch> too much evil
<Toadstool> haha
<Toadstool> once I tried to fix a package using yada... I gave up :p
<LaserJock> hmm, I've never run across it
* ajmitch has had to deal with it before
<ajmitch> some people actually like it
<LaserJock> hmm, what did dholbach do to my mail box? :/
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: awww...
<Fujitsu> Thanks crimsun :)_
<crimsun> np
<LaserJock> and now crimsun is filling my mailbox
<LaserJock> :-)
<crimsun> trying to keep the Internet tubes clear
<LaserJock> yeah, cause when the tubes get filled then you can't get your internets
<Fujitsu> I don't like it with u-u-s catches up with my list of bugs :(
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: s/u-u-s/crimsun/
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, true :P
<crimsun> hey now, Hobbsee does some, too.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, not as much as you :)
<crimsun> I'm just trying to keep my inbox flood manageable :p
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> yeah, crimsun does most of htem
<LaserJock> darn, how to I replace ^M's with newlines in vim?
<fbond> I just use dos2unix
<crimsun> :%s/[ctrl+v] [ctrl+m] //g
<crimsun> where you physically type ctrl+v followed by ctrl+m
<LaserJock> hmm, that replaces them with nothing
<LaserJock> but they are supposed to be newlines
<matid> LaserJock: Try :%s/[ctrl+v] [ctrl+m] /\n/g
<LaserJock> hmm, what am I missing here
<Fujitsu> Darnit... debmirror is borked on my Edgy machine... Can't find SHA1.pm. Can anybody confirm?
<crimsun> LaserJock: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:zg09exXagvcJ:www.vim.org/tips/tip.php%3Ftip_id%3D26+replace+%5EM+with+newline&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6
<LaserJock> hmm, weird
<crimsun> uh
<crimsun> who requested the backport of flashplugin-nonfree?
<crimsun> it's obviously going to fail due to dh_installinit being called with -umultiuser, which doesn't exist in dapper
<Fujitsu> Fantastic!
* crimsun slaps bug 61354
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61354 in flashplugin-nonfree "Failing flashplugin update" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61354
<Fujitsu> That was noted in here a while ago.
<Fujitsu> Jon Dong approved... Wen-Yen Chuang requested...
<Fujitsu> Bug #61216 is the guilty party.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61216 in dapper-backports "[backport]  flashplugin-nonfree 7.0.68" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61216
<minghua> LaserJock: is your problem solved?  it sounds you have a mac end-of-line file
<Fujitsu> (pre-OS X)
<LaserJock> well, but I was editing in OS X
<minghua> LaserJock: that's not important, I am just saying that if you haven't solved it, I may have a better solution
<LaserJock> anyway, dos2unix fixed it :/
<minghua> never mind then
<LaserJock> minghua: what were you going to suggest?
<minghua> LaserJock: in vim, :set fileformats=mac ; :e file ; :set fileformat=unix ; :w
<minghua> this assumes the end-of-line is consistent, though
<minghua> but as dos2unix can deal with it, why not, it's even simpler
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I'll have to look at my OS X editor to see why it did that
<minghua> your probably has an pre-OSX editor :-)
<LaserJock> it's a very new one
<LaserJock> smultron I think is the name
<LaserJock> or maybe it isn't so new
<minghua> the one with a strawberry icon?
<LaserJock> yeah
<minghua> that's definitely an OSX-only app
<minghua> no idea why it uses old mac end-of-line style then
<LaserJock> maybe it was a setting, I'll have to look at it tomorrow
<LaserJock> I guess I just just realize that vims/emacs really do rock ;-)
<LaserJock> s/just just/should just/
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning daniel
<dholbach> hey Andrew
<Burgundavia> oh joy: Mozilla license insanity: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 354622 in firefox "Using Firefox as the app name without official branding is still" [Serious,Open] 
<Burgundavia> can you imagine if every project tried to police their trademark like that
<ajmitch> what a mess
<Burgundavia> Mozilla corp needs to create a Linux distro generic clearance
<Burgundavia> plus, I hate programs that try and push their branding on me
<ajmitch> I'm glad that very few ubuntu-specific programs even mention ubuntu
<Burgundavia> we have been pretty agressive about rooting it out
<ajmitch> it makes it much easier to create derivatives when you don't have to patch half the world
<Burgundavia> basically Mozilla has been thinking and acting in a very agressive manner about it, a very corporate manner
<Burgundavia> not exactly winning them any friends
<zakame> indeed
<ajmitch> imagine if ubuntu announced that they had to rename firefox due to trademark issues
<ajmitch> ie, making it rather public
<Burgundavia> ubuntu, debian, etc. should make a joint announcement
<Burgundavia> lay it at Mozilla's door
<ajmitch> yep
<Burgundavia> threaten to not ship it
<Burgundavia> but Linux has alwasy been small fry for Moz Corp and they act like it
* zakame goes for konq
<Burgundavia> webkit+epiphany
<ajmitch> with firefox's popularity, they've felt that they can throw their weight around far too much
<zakame> opera?
<Burgundavia> non-free
<Kamping_Kaiser> i like ephiphany, apart from 1 major anoyance, otherwise, its ++ good
<Burgundavia> we still have the issue that Moz essentially craps on the users of just gecko
<Mithrandir> epiphany has lots of weird defaults and small UI bugs, like not focusing the address bar when you make a new tab.
* Kamping_Kaiser asumed that was a feature
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir: most of those bugs are gecko integration issues
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, what other backends does epiphany use?
<Burgundavia> none
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: firefox gets it right.
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, ok.
* Kamping_Kaiser asumed there was more from the integration comment
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir: ephy is seriously starved for resources and fights with a lot of gecko bugs
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: to me as a user, that's irrelevant; I just want a web browser.
<Burgundavia> yep
<Kamping_Kaiser> Mithrandir, perhaps you might need to open your mind a bit :|
<Mithrandir> Kamping_Kaiser: what do you mean?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Mithrandir, when my cars low on petrol it stops working properly. when my softwares short on developers, it stops working properly
<Mithrandir> Kamping_Kaiser: yes, and?  I don't care much about epiphany.
<Kamping_Kaiser> then dont use it... or have we just come full circle....?
<Mithrandir> I use opera or firefox, so I don't. :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
* Kamping_Kaiser uses FF an epiphany. 
* Kamping_Kaiser checks for a bug on xchat re using non-default browser to open stuff
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: already filed
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, ah, goodoh
<Burgundavia> it is because xchat is a GTK app, not a GNOME one
* Kamping_Kaiser goes to add self to report
<Kamping_Kaiser> i asumed so
<dholbach> do we have a document where the new sponsoring process is explained?
<dholbach> Ok, added it to MOTU/FAW
<dholbach> MOTU/FAQ
<yusufm>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY qwerty
<AnAnt> is the splash screen working in Edgy ?
<\sh> moins
<Q-FUNK> re
<Q-FUNK> one piece of info I haven't yet found:  how to close launchpad bugs in the changelog.
<Q-FUNK> would anybody have a URL to suggest?
<Q-FUNK> I already know how to close bugs at debian.
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: it's not automatic
<ajmitch> but (Closes: Ubuntu #12345) would be appreciated
<Q-FUNK> I'm just wondering if there's a distinct way to mark launchpad bugs in the changelog to have them closed upon upload.
<ajmitch> not yet
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> that answers my question :)
<ajmitch> and you can't do closes: malone #12345 because there can be multiple bug tasks per bug :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<ajmitch> automatic closing is on the launchpad developers' todo lists
<Q-FUNK> would be nice to have ubuntu bugs marked in a way that won't make the debian bts auto-close, but work on malone.
<Q-FUNK> hm.
<Q-FUNK> what if the debian bts was modified so that any string between Closes: and the # would be interpreted as a derivate distribution name and thus skipped by debian?
<ajmitch> it'd be nice, currently it should already be skipped according to the regex used
<Q-FUNK> thne we could have (Closes: Ubuntu #foobar) which the debian bts would skip, while malone would catch it upon package synchronisation.
<ajmitch>   /closes:\s*(?:bug)?\#\s*\d+(?:,\s*(?:bug)?\#\s*\d+)*/ig
<Q-FUNK> ah.  good to know.
<ajmitch> that's what the developer's reference states is used
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK>   * Changed the backend permissions to 6700 for Ubuntu compatibility.
<Q-FUNK>     (Launchpad #36093, #42147)
<Q-FUNK> I used this
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I'd prefer to use Ubuntu: #36093
<ajmitch> since launchpad is intended for use for multiple distros
<Q-FUNK> good point
* Mithrandir prefers "Malone: #$num".  LP can see where a package is and thereby show the state of the bugs correctly.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: yes, it should
<ajmitch> one day we'll probably have some policy on this
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: that's what I was suggesting.  it would probably be a good idea to create this policy in cooperation with debian, to ensure that there is a consistant way of marking bugs between debian and derivatives.
<xerxas> People cannot change the status ?
<xerxas> a bug status
<xerxas> I mean
<dholbach> xerxas: click on the yellow bar
<dholbach> (in the middle of the page, where the source package name is)
<xerxas> which yellow bar ?
<dholbach> click on the source package name in the middle of the page
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> the bar isn't yellow, it's orange
<xerxas> :)
<dholbach> ...
<xerxas> thanks dholbach
<xerxas> does salmon exist as a color in english ?
<Q-FUNK> xerxas: click on the "foobar (Ubuntu)"  name
<dholbach> sure
<Hobbsee> xerxas: yes
<Hobbsee> xerxas: kind of red
<dholbach> next time I'll say "whatever is closest to yellow"
<dholbach> hope that helps ;)
<xerxas> :)
<xerxas> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mpd/+bug/2009
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2009 in mpd "Need some modification" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed] 
<xerxas> can I reject this one ?
<coyctecm> xerxas: I think yes you can, but it's just my opinion
<xerxas> it's also my opinion
<Adri2000> how long packages stay in the queue (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue) before being built and uploaded in archive ?
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: forever
<imbrandon> Adri2000: depends, weeks , days , hours hehe
<imbrandon> basicly untill an archive admin has time to look over the package and approve it
<Adri2000> ok
<iapx8088> hi all
* Hobbsee has been lazy
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> How?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: seen the /topic?  :P
<Fujitsu> The second bit?
<Hobbsee> the "have you reviewed a package on REVU yet today" bit
* Fujitsu runs off to bed... I'm almost dead after this morning's meeting.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, that's what I meant :)
<Fujitsu> Bye!
<Hobbsee> bye!
<zul> Hobbsee: any progress on the clamav stuff?
<Hobbsee> zul: havent looked
<zul> Hobbsee: ok..just at work will try to look at it when i get home
<Hobbsee> okay
<Q-FUNK> /querry pitti
<Q-FUNK> argh
<lophyte> dholbach: are you around?
<dholbach> lophyte: yes
<lophyte> dholbach: for simple rebuilds, like the one I emailed to you, should I even bother posting them to REVU, or should I just go through the sponsorship process you referred to?
<dholbach> I think the sponsorship process is quicker
<lophyte> alright
<lophyte> thanks :)
<geser> lophyte: shouldn't you upload be correctly versioned 0.5-3build1 instead of 0.5-4build1?
<dholbach> geser: that was my mistake
<lophyte> yeah, it should.. I put the wrong version in :\
<dholbach> and I corrected it the wrong way ;)
<dholbach> we'll survive :)
<chillywilly> trying to make a mirror of the amd64 arch and it keeps complaining about a few Packages and Release files failing the md5sum check
<iapx8088> mmh
<iapx8088>  a little personal outcry, a little OT. The goddamn new kernel interface is kicking the sh?t out of me
<iapx8088> it's pi??ing me off
<Q-FUNK> :(
<Adri2000> i'm a package waiting on revu.tauware.de, i need review, my id is 3183, thank you
<Adri2000> :p
<phanatic> good afternoon
<iapx8088> Adri2000,  what's the package
<Adri2000> iapx8088: id 3183 -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3183
<iapx8088> fine
<iapx8088> Adri2000, I'm on dapper, but it complains about debhelper too old. I believe I cannot review it
<Adri2000> iapx8088: yeah, dapper has only 5.0.7ubuntu13
<Adri2000> edgy has 5.0.37.3ubuntu1
<iapx8088> I wonder if that dependency it's strictly necessary, I mean the version.
<Gloubiboulga> yes, it is
<Gloubiboulga> for the new python policy
<iapx8088> I se
<Adri2000> hi Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> salut Adri2000 ;)
<iapx8088> I believe I cannot review it
<iapx8088> I could upgrade to edgy but I'm in the middle of a etch upgrade and the new kernel is driving me mad
<Adri2000> iapx8088: if you want to check if it compiles fine, you can use an edgy pbuilder
<Gloubiboulga> Adri2000, I'm having a look
<iapx8088> Adri2000, I suppose it's in revu-tools also in dapper yeah?
<Adri2000> iapx8088: what? pbuilder?
<Adri2000> Gloubiboulga: cool :)
<iapx8088> Adri2000, http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com/msg00682.html i'm getting confused :D
<Adri2000> pbuilder is another package
<Adri2000> and revu-* use it
<iapx8088> Adri2000,  understand, I'm creating a pbuilder create edgy
<iapx8088> :D
<iapx8088> it's taking a lot of space :o
<Adri2000> it's an ubuntu base system (without X/Gnome/... i think) :)
<iapx8088> omg
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> how does UVF affect native packages?
<LaserJock> no matter what you do you still have to upload the whole thing
<LaserJock> is that considered a new upstream version?
<bddebian> Only if the abi changes afaik
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> what if I have no abi ;-)
<bddebian> So going from 1.0-1 to 1.1-1 would be a UVF but going from 1.0-1 to 1.0-2 would not be
<bddebian> But what the hell do I know? :-)
<azeem> those are not native package versions
<bddebian> Oh, good point
<LaserJock> well, they could be but they aren't nice ones
<azeem> heh :)
<LaserJock> I had this talk the other day
<LaserJock> as Ubuntu uses that kind of versioning for a few packages
<LaserJock> which is kinda confusing, IMO
<LaserJock> I'm still a little uncertain about how I should go about versioning
<LaserJock> but I guess I'll stick to using .X once UVF hits
<LaserJock> darn, can we get a mailing list or something for ubuntu-universe-sponsors ?
<zul> ask jono
<LaserJock> I'm getting spammed by crimsun too much ;-)
<zul> heh blacklist him ;)
<LaserJock> never
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> I can't find an easy way to filter it in gmail
<LaserJock> perhaps the [Bug in the subject
<LaserJock> but then I'll get all LP bugs in there
<zul> couldnt you use a regular email client?
<LaserJock> yuck
<LaserJock> if I ever found one I liked :-)
<zul> i hear outlook is pretty good
<LaserJock> and could use in a browser
<LaserJock> :-)
* LaserJock really needs to stop working from 5 different computers all the time
<fbond> I filter my mail with procmail and read it with mutt; hard to beat that for flexibility.
<LaserJock> fbond: well, it was ok, but gmail was more portable
<fbond> can't get more portable than connecting to your machine at home via SSH :)
<LaserJock> except it isn't on
<fbond> there's your problem
<LaserJock> I could forward my gmail the my school mail
<LaserJock> and then use IMAP
<fbond> yech, then when you graduate you'll have to figure it all out all over again
<LaserJock> fbond: sure, the reason I have gmail is it's the only consistent thing I have right now :-)
<fbond> yeah, tumultuous years, those college years
<LaserJock> heh, well this is my 9th year so ..
<LaserJock> it's not like it's that fluctuating
<fbond> :)
<LaserJock> I have almost 1GB stored on my school account
<fbond> geez.  they better buy you your own server soon.
<LaserJock> well, the don't limit the size
<LaserJock> so I use it for backup
<LaserJock> and Ubuntu stuff
<fbond> I really made an effort to consolidate much of my data-access to shell programs over the last few years
<LaserJock> etc.
<fbond> I use mutt for email
<fbond> naim for IM
<LaserJock> I'm *trying* to get into mutt
<LaserJock> but most of the time I end up in thunderbird
<fbond> It's pretty powerful once you have your config worked out and you know your way around it
<fbond> mutt, that is
<LaserJock> I don't know how to deal with attachments and getting around my email quickly
<fbond> yeah ... I find things usually work out ok, unless people send you HTML emails with image attachments ... :)
<fbond> you have to save the images, save the HTML, and view it in a browser if you want things to work out properly
<LaserJock> mhm, and I get a fair amount of those
<LaserJock> plus I use mutt from the server
<LaserJock> so I have to transfer everything to my box
<LaserJock> overall I think email sucks
<LaserJock> I hate mailing lists
<LaserJock> and dread having to send emails
<iapx8088> ok
<iapx8088> I'm fighting with pbuilder
<iapx8088> I did create something, but it's wrong.
<iapx8088> how to start from beginning
<LaserJock> oh that's much more fun then listening to me rant about email ;-)
<iapx8088> I mean, how to remove the actual pbuilder envirnment
<bddebian>  sudo pbuilder create --distribution edgy --override-config ?
<LaserJock> iapx8088: look in /cache/pbuilder/
<iapx8088> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/edgy
<LaserJock> and see if there is a base.tgz
<iapx8088> ok
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> are you doing this on dapper?
<iapx8088> yeah
<LaserJock> you need to install edgy's deboostrap
<iapx8088> I need that to review a package that uses debhelper from edgy
<iapx8088> I see
<iapx8088> O i remember I read that in packagin basic
<LaserJock> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3046376/debootstrap_0.3.3.0ubuntu3_all.deb
<iapx8088> I got it
<iapx8088> it's rolling
<iapx8088> thanks LaserJock
<LaserJock> np
<Buzz_Lightyear> Hi
<Buzz_Lightyear> I have some Questions about ubuntu linux with some Hardware ... someones here who can help or think he knows a lot of ?
<iapx8088> Buzz_Lightyear,  the channel is #ubuntu
<Buzz_Lightyear> Thanks a lot
<Buzz_Lightyear> :)
<iapx8088> I suppose it's normal that pbuider <anything> needs root privileges?
<iapx8088> yes it is
<iapx8088> omg
<iapx8088> pbuilder is failing inside the chroot, but it's not the package, it's the dependencies
<iapx8088> maybe python cairo is broken, my pbuilder works with my package
<iapx8088> (spice)
<iapx8088> mmh
<iapx8088> Adri2000,
<iapx8088> I was reviewing your package
<Adri2000> iapx8088: giplet ?
<iapx8088> I have an edgy pbuilder now, and I suppose it works, because it builds succesfully my spice deb
<iapx8088> yeah
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Adri2000> iapx8088: Gloubiboulga has already uploaded it ;)
<Sp4rKy> i need someone who really know REVU building process
<Sp4rKy> (how pbuilder is set for permits MOTU building their packages without sudo)
<iapx8088> Adri2000,  fine, but I discovered something
<iapx8088> Sp4rKy, it's in the guide
<iapx8088> Sp4rKy,  you mean this? http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/software/pbuilder-doc/pbuilder-doc.html#nonrootchroot
<iapx8088> Adri2000, I'm happy it's already up, but I had a problem with it.  And I suppose it's not my fault or pbuilder one, it works for another package
<iapx8088> Adri2000,  look http://pastebin.com/790763 maybe you can tell me what's wrong with my pbuilder.
<iapx8088> probably it's a problem o'mine
<Gloubiboulga> looks like a problem with a package in the archive
<Gloubiboulga> try to update your pbuilder
<iapx8088> already did.
<iapx8088> let's try again
<seaLne> iapx8088: i have that aswell, the new python packages were supposed to fix it but haven't for me
<Sp4rKy> iapx8088: mhhh, the pbuilderrc using by MOTU doesn't seems have a special user
<Sp4rKy> oups
<Sp4rKy> # the username and ID used by pbuilder, inside chroot. Needs fakeroot, really
<Sp4rKy> BUILDUSERID=1234
<Sp4rKy> :/
<iapx8088> seaLne, I see, so it's not my fault or Adri2000 one, good
<iapx8088> mhmm
<iapx8088> to update it suffices sudo pbulilder update or I am missing something
<seaLne> not really my laptop is useless and i'm off to a conference tommorow :(
<iapx8088> seaLne, that'not good
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: pbuilder is run with sudo on revu
<Sp4rKy> iapx8088: are you sure revu use way desribes in the link ?
<Sp4rKy> rootstrap etc ...
<seaLne> and i really didn't have time for a reinstall but i guess its to be expected everyso often with edgy
<iapx8088> Sp4rKy, no I am not. Did you see in motu?
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: but the /etc/sudoers file limits people to *only* pbuilder unless they are a revu admin
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: hmmm k
<seaLne> iapx8088: try deleting your pbuilder cache and recreating it, the python problem is with upgrades
<iapx8088> ok
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: so must i install user-mode-linux
<Sp4rKy> or just add users in /etc/sudoers
<Sp4rKy> and limit access to pbuilder command ?
<iapx8088> seaLne, I'm on the last update
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: /etc/sudoers
<Sp4rKy> k
* Sp4rKy will have to read man sudo :/
<iapx8088> mmh
<iapx8088> a question: when I build my package (spice) I use dpkg-buildpackage or debuild and it gets signed.
<iapx8088> but I want to build it using edgy pbuilder (and it works) but of course it doesn't get signed.
<tseng> pbuilder doesnt build source-only, either
<tseng> so you would need to build it anyway
<tseng> pbuilder to test
<iapx8088> ok
<tseng> dpkg-buildpackage -S (-sa) -rfakeroot to upload
<tseng> if its the first upload of a new orig tarball you need -sa
<seaLne> or debuild -S -sa is slightly easier
<seaLne> less typing :)
<tseng> meh
<iapx8088> clear. But I have a Dapper, and it means that the source package will come out from a dapper, not an edgy (but I believe it doesn't matter)
<tseng> command history for the win
<tseng> the changelog is what matters
<iapx8088> ok
<tseng> if it targets dapper or edgy
<iapx8088> and I am supposed to do things for edgy right?
<iapx8088> It's pointless to build for dapper I wonder
<iapx8088> I discovered an error in my package :D
<iapx8088> I had dapper in my changelog :'(
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: I think you can do something like  <user>   ALL = /usr/sbin/pbuilder
<Goshawk> hi all, iapx8088: are you able to build it
<Goshawk> ?
<iapx8088> yes, it's fine
<iapx8088> and has a single warning in lintian
<Goshawk> iapx8088: are you saying that you compiled a gcc 4.0 on dapper with gdc support?
<iapx8088> gcc?
<iapx8088> Goshawk,  it's not gcc
<Goshawk> ah! ok understood
<Goshawk> so you compiled dmd, isn't it?
<iapx8088> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3154
<iapx8088> this
<Goshawk> ah ma sei italiano!
<iapx8088> sisi piacere giuseppe
<Goshawk> scusa, ma qual  la relazione tra D e spice?
<iapx8088> D?
<iapx8088> dapper?
<Goshawk> scusa! ho sbagliato canale
<iapx8088> :D
<Goshawk> credevo di essere in un altro canale
<iapx8088> trank
<Goshawk> sorry for everybody i thought i was in another channel
<iapx8088> Goshawk, are you a reviewer?
<Goshawk> iapx8088: no i'm a simple uploader
<iapx8088> what did you upload?
<iapx8088> you could start to review my package and I could start to review yours.
<iapx8088> (not today, I'm very tired)
<Goshawk> iapx8088: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2914
<iapx8088> Goshawk, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3154
<Goshawk> ah! i didn't know that we could do this
<iapx8088> when you have some spare time
<iapx8088> Goshawk, I believe everyone should try to review a package (or not?)
<tseng> you can help eachother spot bugs
<tseng> but you cant advocate them for upload
<Goshawk> no i know that an ubuntu developer should look for it
<Goshawk> yep tseng rules
<tseng> a developer must look at it
<tseng> but there is no reason you cant check each other
<pianoboy3333> Anyone know how to make a deb of mutagen? The python tagging module? Can anyone tell me how to do it myself?
<iapx8088> haa I see
<iapx8088> ok
<iapx8088> Goshawk, it seems basically good to me, I've got a single warning,  later I'll see if everything is in the right place
<Goshawk> thanks
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: i'm editing /etc/sudoers
<seaLne> with sudo visudo?
<LaserJock> pianoboy3333: I think it is already in the repos
<Sp4rKy> what user should be used for sudo commands ?
<Sp4rKy> PACKAGERS       localhost = (MYUSER) PACKAGING
<Sp4rKy> what must i put in place of MYUSER ?
<seaLne> the user that will be sudoing
<tseng> Sp4rKy, presumably
<iapx8088> mhm
<tseng> maxence rather
<iapx8088> hey guys, I'm uploading the source too this time (in spice). If it's not going to in the depos, at least it will shorten the mileage of someone saying me what's wrong :d
<Sp4rKy> so i could not set this ?
<Sp4rKy> just write PACKAGERS       localhost = PACKAGING
<pianoboy3333> LaserJock: it's an old version, 1.6 in edgy
<LaserJock> pianoboy3333: do you know what version Debian has?
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: I'm nut sure what exactly you are doing
<LaserJock> you want everybody in PACKAGERS to be able to use pbuilder, is that right?
<pianoboy3333> LaserJock: nope.... sorry, I can check though
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: exactly
<pianoboy3333> LaserJock: 1.6
<iapx8088> I surely hate dput
<tseng> dput couldnt be any easier
<pianoboy3333> LaserJock: and now I installed 1.7 with it's setup.py script... and then compiz tried to install mutagen 1.6, and now I can't remove python-mutagen.... how do I force remove a package?
<iapx8088> tseng, no my fault, i alway forgot that it take minutes before showing up
<tseng> right you have to wait for cron
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: PACKAGERS  ALL = /usr/sbin/pbuilder should work
<Sp4rKy> ok
<Sp4rKy> thx
<iapx8088> ok now it's fine
<Sp4rKy> (/usr/bin/pbuilder defined in PACKAGING meta)
<iapx8088> ok guys, have a nice time, and see ya tomorronw
<Sp4rKy> 'cause some other packaging software (like revu-tools) need sudo :)
<Lutin> Sp4rKy, /usr/sbin/pbuilder
<Sp4rKy> yep Lutin :D
<Lutin> ;)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: user always have to call sudo pbuilder ... and not only pbuilder ...
<Sp4rKy> why ?
<Sp4rKy> (i use the same .pbuilderrc than REVU)
<LaserJock> you sure
<LaserJock> ?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<LaserJock> it's run with sudo on revu
<Sp4rKy> really
<LaserJock> yep
<Sp4rKy> gloubiboulga said me MOTU doesn't need to run sudo pbuilder *** but only pbuilder ***
<Sp4rKy> this is wrong ?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> :-)
<Sp4rKy> :/
* Sp4rKy don't understand
<LaserJock> revu has pbuilder wrapper scripts
<LaserJock> so pbuilder-edgy uses an edgy pbuilder, etc.
<Sp4rKy> k
<LaserJock> inside that wrapper is a sudo pbuilder
<Sp4rKy> ok
<LaserJock> so when you run it
<LaserJock> you run pbuilder-edgy
<LaserJock> but it's really running sudo pbuilder
<Sp4rKy> ok LaserJock
<Sp4rKy> do you think it's available to get this wrapper ?
<LaserJock> hehe, yeah
<LaserJock> you have it on your computer
<Sp4rKy> what is it ?
<LaserJock>  /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh
<Sp4rKy> thx LaserJock :)
<Sp4rKy> you really help me :D
<imbrandon> superm1: ping
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: np
<LaserJock> hola imbrandon
<imbrandon> LaserJock: do you ever see superm1 active?
<beligum> when is the next revu day?
<beligum> hmm, sorry, just read the topic
<beligum> I guess today?
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: can i again disturb you ?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> imbrandon: occasionally
<LaserJock> beligum: it was Monday
<beligum> oh, ic
<LaserJock> but we review packages everyday
<LaserJock> we just try to do more on REVU Days
<beligum> Anyone care to review screenkast ?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: if you see him before i do, can you tell him to read up in the maint guide about versioning heh all his packages he asked me to revu are mis-versioned
<imbrandon> mostly the -XubuntuX part
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: i'm working on a parrallel pbuilder processing
<LaserJock> imbrandon: k
<imbrandon> liek a new package to ubuntu was versioned 0.20 upstream and he versioned it 0.20-3ubuntu3 for a reason i cannot tell
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> heh
<imbrandon> other than that looks like he's getting it down pat
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: do you have already try to do this ?
<imbrandon> some other mirnor stuff i'll catch up with him on later but i just never seem to be on at the same time as him ;)
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: I'm not quite sure what you mean?
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: i would that :
<Sp4rKy> authorized packagers can connect with ssh to mi dedicated server
<Sp4rKy> they can use pbuilder software for packaging
<Sp4rKy> but, when they run pbuilder, it should use all connected client to share compilation between them
<Sp4rKy> understand ?
<crimsun> I don't think you want that if your connected clients are over 14.4 kbps dialup
<Sp4rKy> of course :)
<Sp4rKy> and all Ubuntu users should be able to help Ubuntu community in a new passive way
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: your talking about a distcc setup and thats is realy hackish for pbuilder to use AND only works on lan connected systesm ( becouse of the ammount of data and the systesm ahve to have a constant connection )
<ajmitch> and it breaks with a lot of packages
<imbrandon> exactly
<LaserJock> what might be a cool idea is pbuilder-ssh
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch crimsun
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock (and others) , the exact way isn't already decided
<Sp4rKy> i'm interesting on this project
<Sp4rKy> and try find the better way
<ajmitch> hello
<LaserJock> better way to do what?
<LaserJock> you want to make a pbuilder farm for people to build packages on?
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: imho there isnt that many packages that warent a parrell setup
* Nafallo just ordered upgrades for his server ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: he is wanting to make like a seta@home for pbuilder , people dedicate cpu cycles
<Nafallo> one way to solve slow compiles :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yikes
<imbrandon> heh
<Sp4rKy> 22:10 < LaserJock> you want to make a pbuilder farm for people to build packages on?
<Sp4rKy> 22:10 < LaserJock> you want to make a pbuilder farm for people to build packages on? <== exactly
<Nafallo> hmm
<ajmitch> compilation is not easily parallelised :)
<Sp4rKy> software like distcc should works at the time of you past CC=distcc option to make
<LaserJock> well, but that's different than @home style thing
<Sp4rKy> ajmitch: i've not said it's easy
<Nafallo> I think you would be better off with identical buildds and a round-robin dns then :-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: distcc also breaks alot of packages too
<Sp4rKy> imbrandon: maybe
<Sp4rKy> if you know some others solutions, why not
<LaserJock> like we have been saying
<LaserJock> it's probably better to have a computer, or series of computers
<imbrandon> as ajmitch complilation isnt easily parllelized
<Sp4rKy> Nafallo: :/ this way doesn't split compilation (and so packaging time will always be the same)
<ajmitch> far too much information is needed to be transferred
<Nafallo> Sp4rKy: so? the packages will atleast not break :-)
<LaserJock> better slow than not at all
<LaserJock> I think pbuilder-ssh would be much better
<Nafallo> Sp4rKy: look at how Ubuntu compile there stuff etc... :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: remid me that next time i compile kdebase on my 800mhz ppc ;)
<imbrandon> remind*
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> LaserJock: even just uploading the source would take an age
<LaserJock> for small packages it might be ok
<imbrandon> really even with distcc there comes a point where its hurting to add more computers rather than helping becouse of the transfer / checksum times
<LaserJock> somebody's got to do it sometime
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: do you have any doc on pbuilder-ssh
<Sp4rKy> aybe exists some better software for this
<LaserJock> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=pbuilder-ssh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: usually I found that I didn't get much/any speedup by using my slow boxes
<imbrandon> DAC and a build queue ;)
<ajmitch> and they could slow things down
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea exactly
<ajmitch> I haven't used distcc for awhile :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i get a LITTLE speed when i use two amd64 about the same speed but i've been trying to find a good way to use all 8 xboxes ( running gentoo ) to no avail
<imbrandon> but either way with pbuilder it sucks becouse you have to hack the packages and chroots
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm not that rich ;)
<imbrandon> hahah i got most of my xboxes free or cheap that were broke and "fixed" them with a linux install ;)
<imbrandon> only one i use ( well my son uses ) to play games hehe
<imbrandon> and even it runs linux / XBMC
<Nafallo> hmm
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: pbuilder-ssh isn't what i want
<Nafallo> I hope the amd64 x2 I just bought will do for a while :-)
<Sp4rKy> i want SHARE/split building/compiling process
<ajmitch> Nafallo: mine manages alright
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: what you want dosent exist ( yet ) you will have to create it is what we're saying
<ajmitch> Sp4rKy: good luck, you'll need a lot of it
<Nafallo> ajmitch: nice. both x86 and x86_64? :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: hm?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: you compile both on it? :-)
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> separate pbuilder base tarballs
<ajmitch> very easy
<imbrandon> ;)
<Nafallo> zul: amd64 xen-host can have both i386 and amd64 guests? :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: nice :-)
* ajmitch also has an old, slow x86 laptop (P-M 2GHz) :)
<imbrandon> Nafallo: you can have 32bit userland with a 64bit kernel afaik
<imbrandon> ( xen wise )
<ajmitch> yes that should be quite possible
<ajmitch> I haven't setup xen on the amd64 yet since I'm waiting for the nvidia drivers :)
<imbrandon> i've always just done it chroots but that should work ok
<Nafallo> nice. I feel I'll have to read up on XEN :-)
<ajmitch> and I don't like it rebooting
<Sp4rKy> you really think there is no way at all for spit compilation process
<ajmitch> Sp4rKy: nope, not really in the way you want
<Sp4rKy> whereas a lot a this kind of software exists ...
<imbrandon> Nafallo: zul has a pretty simple wiki page on getting it up and runng fairly simple
<ajmitch> Nafallo: it's really easy to setup xen domains
* ajmitch is using xen on the laptop
<imbrandon> i had it setup before i wiped this drive
<ajmitch> imbrandon: using zul's packages?
<Nafallo> oki, will play with it when the hardware has arrived and are installed then :-)
<Sp4rKy> ajmitch: i want speed up building process, i think the best way to do that is speed up compilation part, but maybe other optimization which use parrallel computing should work
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: ..... your barking up the wrong tree bud
<ajmitch> Sp4rKy: maybe you could write a compiler to do so :)
<imbrandon> ... but can you make a beowolf cluster out of them ?
* imbrandon stops
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> bad imbrandon ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> Nafallo: how much RAM are you getting?
<Nafallo> Corsair TWIN2X1024-5400C4 XMS2-5400 2x512MB (tot. 1GB) DDR2 PC5300 4-4-4-12 667MHz with Heatsink 240pin
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> ah, only 1GB
<ajmitch> you'll find yourself wanting more real fast
<imbrandon> nice, makes my poor lil amd64 3400+ seem like a childs toy
<Nafallo> I only have 5k SEK to spend :-)
<ajmitch> makes my poor little 4200+ x2 seem like a toy ;)
<Sp4rKy> imbrandon: i've just discovered beowolf some days ago
<imbrandon> yea i only have 1 gig in my amd 64 and it eats it up fast
<ajmitch> I had 1GB in my old box, which is why I went for 4GB this time
<imbrandon> *64 eat ram like its candy
<LaserJock> I think we have a couple beowolf clusters here
<Nafallo> well, ogre.magicalforest.se is what I have now :-)
<LaserJock> not positive about that
* imbrandon steals LaserJock's ssh info
<LaserJock> imbrandon: won't do you much good
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> no accounts on the cluster even as a grad ?
<LaserJock> oh no, I have accounts :-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> you just won't find much interesting on them
<imbrandon> ahh /me just wants to play on a "real" cluster sometime
<imbrandon> i have set them up here before and got them "working" but i cant find a good use for them in the stuff i do
<imbrandon> well not that /works/
* ajmitch wonders what time the freeze comes into effect
<imbrandon> dunno, when they change the topic in -devel probably
<zul> Nafallo: i dont have an amd64 so im not sure
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> zul!
<imbrandon> heya zul ;)
<zul> ajmitch: you might have to wait a bit longer because ive been asked to port it to 2.6.17
<ajmitch> zul: you rely on poor suckers like us to test :)
<ajmitch> zul: so I saw
<zul> ajmitch: meh..
<Nafallo> zul: hi! :-) will tell you after I've started playing with my hardware then :-)
<zul> ok
<ajmitch> zul: anything we can help with?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well we have 2 or so clusters of 10-15 nodes
<imbrandon> nice
<zul> ajmitch: not really if you have ported xen before ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but we don't really use them for anything special
<ajmitch> zul: I'm not that insane
<zul> ajmitch: apparently i am
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we just run more of the same stuff ;-)
<ajmitch> zul: I thought you were just waiting on kernel-package to get .18?
<ajmitch> elmo wants the kernels to be strictly in sync?
<zul> 2.6.17 i am told
<zul> yep
<ajmitch> oh well :)
<ajmitch> have fun
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i have openmosix running on the xboxes but they just sit there idle looking good on my "geek resume" becouse i dunno what to use them for LOL
<zul> thanks i will
<imbrandon> LaserJock: @home projects is all that runs on them , litterly
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that's the thing, we have clusters but we can't run a program on more than one node at a time
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> imbrandon: so we have 10 nodes so we can run 10 jobs
<imbrandon> whats the point then ?
<LaserJock> you can distribute computational jobs over the cluster
<LaserJock> and you log into 1 computer
<imbrandon> ohh yea , ok
<imbrandon> yea thats how openmosix works
<LaserJock> but it's not really distributed computing
<imbrandon> well atleaste how i understand it
<imbrandon> right unless its a program writen to ..... hell i dont know really, i just toy with them
<imbrandon> wish i knew more
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> we have *no* software that can do that
<LaserJock> our original cluster was 15 AMD 1800+ boxes
<imbrandon> heh yea from what i've seen there isnt much out there
<imbrandon> that is
<LaserJock> but what was nice is that the software we run has a hefty license fee
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> otherwise I would have just run jobs on my computer since it was faster
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> but then that cluster overheated and dies
<LaserJock> *died
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> so we got another one
<LaserJock> and then there is another one that is like 10 AMD64s
<imbrandon> 3d rendering is the only thing i can see myself doing on a cluster
<imbrandon> and compiling if there was a good solution to use all processors/ram
<imbrandon> but alas we just had that discussion ;)
<imbrandon> and i dont know enough about 3d rendering to make anything worth putting on a cluster to render ;)
<imbrandon> make a 10000000000x100000000000 png of the stargate hehe
<LaserJock> well, all we do is computational chemistry
<imbrandon> hrm what codec/player plays H.264 encoded videos ?
<imbrandon> ( on linux/ubuntu )
<imbrandon> or if RMS had his way GNU/KDE/Gnome/vim/emacs/mplayer/Amarok/Linux
<ajmitch> heathen!!
<ajmitch> you missed one
<imbrandon> hah what one ?
<ajmitch> X
<ajmitch> but that's not GPL
<imbrandon> ahh yes
<imbrandon> hehe
<micahcowan> imbrandon, and don't forget to explicitly pronounce each slash.
<imbrandon> ok well i'm off to the store to look at some new gadgets bbiab
<imbrandon> micahcowan: haha yea
<imbrandon> but GNU is always top billing even though its the TOOL that Linux uses ;) *rolls eyes*
<imbrandon> bbiab
<ajmitch> no no
<ajmitch> GNU is the operating system
<ajmitch> GNU/Linux is the variant :)
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> an inferior second cousin, so to speak ;)
<imbrandon> i wish someone would take the time to port all BSD tools to the linux kernel just to shut RMS up sometimes
<imbrandon> i mean when i install cygwin on windows it doesnt make it GNU/Windows but somehow its GNU/Bsd or GNU/Linux
<ajmitch> demanding users on the -devel list...
<imbrandon> mah
* imbrandon stops
<ajmitch> :)
<micahcowan> imbrandon, IIRC, someone already did that. It was called LSD :)
<trappist> point me in the right direction if this isn't the place to ask, but I can't connect to bazaar.launchpad.net with bzr though my ssh key is on lp.  something broken?
<trappist> says Permission denied (publickey)
<Marcelo31> #ubuntu-br
<trappist> Marcelo31: that wasn't for me, was it?
<zul> heh demanding users here too :)
<crimsun> trappist: what syntax are you using?
<Marcelo31> [gnomefreak] : I'm sorry
<Marcelo31> no I'm sorry
<gnomefreak> you are?
<Marcelo31> excuse me , i have got mistake
<trappist> crimsun: bzr checkout sftp://jrhakr@bazaar.launchpad.net/... which I had just pasted from a wiki page, when it probably wants me to connect as trappist, not jrhakr
<trappist> crimsun: yeah, just confirmed that.
<carthik> Is it okay if I assign bugs in universe packages to the MOTU team? May I subscribe the team? What do you folks prefer generally?
<dholbach> subscribing is cool
<dholbach> that way we can still assign it to a person who's willing to fix it
<carthik> alrighty
<crimsun> assigning right off the bat is frowned upon.
<crimsun> (hence my earlier comment regarding ubuntu-audio)
<dholbach> in desktop land we assign to ubuntu-desktop - in general I don't think it's "really bad" to do assign vs subscribe
<crimsun> I'm certainly just one person, but I find it extremely annoying to have stuff assigned to me if I didn't explicitly request it or do it myself.
<micahcowan> I think it's usually enough to make sure it gets to the right package... if someone is interested in fixing issues with that package, they'll have themselves subscribed to relevant bugs.
<carthik> crimsun, I did not want to annoy anyone else today, and so asked :)
<LaserJock> who did the scipy merge in edgy?
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> I was going to do that.
<Fujitsu> Upstream just released a version which works with python 2.5.
<Bassetts> I would like to help out with packaging, can i have some pointers where to start?
<LaserJock> arggg, scipy and scipy-core are empty in edgy!!
<Fujitsu> Are they?
<Fujitsu> I was about to ask about scipy.
<LaserJock> yeah, I have a meeting with my boss
<LaserJock> and I can't analyze my data
<LaserJock> :(
<Fujitsu> Upstream released a new version 8 hours ago... Works with python 2.5.
<Fujitsu> Is it acceptable to deviate from Debian like this, this was holding back my merge.
<LaserJock> what deviation?
<Fujitsu> A new upstream version.
<Bassetts> anyone?
<Fujitsu> 1.0rc1 vs. 1.0b5-1.
<Fujitsu> (this is numpy, which the new scipy needs)
<carthik> Bassetts, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU and the pacakging guide at doc.ubuntu.com are good starting points.
<Bassetts> hey carthik
<Plug> hmmm
<Plug> so moving libdir breaks where the pppd plugin is put
<Bassetts> carthik, i read your blog all the time, thank you very much, you are actually the reason i started using ubuntu =)
<carthik> Bassetts, great! I find purpose in life at last ;)
<carthik> thanks a lot for letting me know. :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I can't believ scipy is empty ?!?
<Bassetts> =) thanks for getting me away from windows
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, who knows... My new one isn't :)
<Fujitsu> I don't think....
<LaserJock> do a dpkg -c on the .deb
<ajmitch> Plug: shawarma had some other changes related to that, the last debdiff on revu should help
<Fujitsu> Mine's got a billion-jillion shared objects...
<Fujitsu> (but this is a new one)
<Fujitsu> Erm, and some C++ sources. That's rather odd.
* Fujitsu hits whoever made the Debian package.
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=3190&upid2=3192
<Fujitsu> There should /not/ be C++ sources in site-packages, should there?
<Plug> the problem I have here is I'm not up on scratch on things like shared libraries
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: sounds like you broke it :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I didn't. It's straight from Debian.
<ajmitch> Plug: shawarma used LIBEXECDIR to place it
<LaserJock> I would assume the debian package isn't empty
<LaserJock> I'll have to check it when I get back from my meeting
<Fujitsu> I'll check it...
<Laser_away> bbiab
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Plug> hmmm
<Plug> I"d used libexecdir too
<Plug> so I'm not sure what the problem was :(
<Fujitsu> Laser_away, 0.3.2-10 is indeed empty when built on Ubuntu:
<Fujitsu> usage: [-v]  [-h]  [-d|--default]  [-s|--supported]  [-i|--installed]  [-r|--requested <version string>|<control file>] 
<Fujitsu> Something's calling pyversions improperly, but the build isn't failing, it's just got nothing produced.
<Plug> ajmitch: on your review, do you remember what the problem was specifically?  things going in /usr/lib - is that not allowed?
<ajmitch> plugins which are used by programs shouldn't go there
<ajmitch> they should live in dirs under /usr/lib
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> The new version of numpy actually COMPILES with python 2.5... Yay :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-21
<Plug> right
<Plug> shawarma: about?
<Plug> I think I've figured out what needs to be done
<Plug> but again it will have to wait till tonight :(
<gnomefreak> is there any wiki's/docs on smartpm?
<pianoboy3333> gnomefreak: what happned to smartpm being the default pm in edgy?
<gnomefreak> pianoboy3333: it didnt happen yet atleast wont in edgy
<pianoboy3333> gnomefreak: smartpm doesn't look as nice
<LasaerJock> anybody use fetchmail with gmail?
<gnomefreak> smart pm is only in text form here
<pianoboy3333> ?
<gnomefreak> hence the reason i ask about docs dapper it was gui
<pianoboy3333> gnomefreak: you have to run smart --gui fyi
<gnomefreak> i tried that
<gnomefreak> oh no i did gksudo smart --gui
<pianoboy3333> Anyone know any docs on making python programs into debs?
<gnomefreak> and it didnt start (thinking package manager you need permissions
<pianoboy3333> gnomefreak: try this
<pianoboy3333> gnomefreak: gksudo "smart --gui"
<pianoboy3333> with gksudo you need the quotes don't forgen
<pianoboy3333> *forgen
<gnomefreak> smart --gui started it
<pianoboy3333> that's werid
<gnomefreak> pianoboy3333: dont need them
<gnomefreak> should use them
<pianoboy3333> you should need gksudo in order to install them
<ajmitch> pianoboy3333: does the packaging guide have much on it?
* ajmitch has packaged a few python apps before, but doesn't have to explain it :)
<gnomefreak> hmmmmmm gksudo works without the " for everything i do but for some reason smart needs it
<pianoboy3333> gnomefreak: you need quotes when you supply arguments
<pianoboy3333> gnomefreak: so gksduo nautilus will work fine
<pianoboy3333> but if you do gksudo smart --gui
<pianoboy3333> it thinks --gui is a argument to gksudo
<gnomefreak> ah
<imbrandon> hrm like i'm gonna take an email serouisly from dfgdfg@0oz.com
<imbrandon> darn spammers
<ajmitch> imbrandon: surely you do?
<ajmitch> hello hub
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, ping.
<LaserJock> yep
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> The package is indeed completely empty...
<Fujitsu> It mis-calls pyversions.
<lotusleaf> @t
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: in Debian too?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, it's no longer in the archives.
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<imbrandon> hahahah zomg , the best thing i've seen yet in a linux "easter egg" of a program .....
<imbrandon> LaserJock: you run on ppc right ?
<LaserJock> no
<imbrandon> ahh darn
<imbrandon> only works on a ppc
<LaserJock> intel
<Fujitsu> I've got a numpy package of the latest version, so it builds fine now, and a new scipy to go with it, both of which build fine and aren't empty. Care to test that they actually work?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes please :-)
<Fujitsu> http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/scipy
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: are they syncs or merges?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, scipy is a sync, numpy is a {merge,new version}.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: if you run "sudo ybin -v" ( equiv of "sudo update-grub" on x86 ) the last thing it spits out is "ybin: Blessing /dev/hdX with holy Penguin Pee ...." before it finishes, thats classic , best thing i've seen so far in an "easter egg"
<Fujitsu> ....
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: how much does penguin pee go for these days?
<imbrandon> heh no idea
<lotusleaf> darn
<imbrandon> thats just fskin classic though
<LaserJock> argg, fetchmail want to grab all my gmail emails every time
<imbrandon> LaserJock: wow , it should only grab the new ones ( thats how mine works )
<beligum> Hi all, someone told me I shouldn't package a binary together with a shared library, but the library depends on that binary and it's actually just a small script anyway, is this really that not-done ?
<lotusleaf> do penguins pee? I thought it was like birds where everything comes out in one goopy mess
<imbrandon> a penguin is a bird
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: so there is no pee
<imbrandon> that soooo wasent the point ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: how is that an easter egg?
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: but logic demanded it!
* lotusleaf flicks spock ears
<imbrandon> ajmitch: well close to an easter egg, but i guess not really one
<lotusleaf> what came first the penguin or the pee?
<ajmitch> everyone knows that linux releases are blessed with holy penguin pee
<imbrandon> ;) from Capt'n Linus ?
<lotusleaf> do the penguin priests bless with the sign of ubuntu and splash the penguin pee in a circle?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: heh did you see the digg about his 2.6.18 changelog thing
<imbrandon> from the 19th
* chillywilly wisses on some ubuntu CDs
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no
<chillywilly> wizzes too
<tseng> chillywilly: ?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: it was full of pirate talk and he signed it "Linus "but you can call me Capt'n" T. "
<imbrandon> heh
<lotusleaf> chillywilly: why would you urinate on a holy sacrament?
<chillywilly> to bless it
<chillywilly> my nick is named after a penguin afterall...
<imbrandon> chillywilly: only works if your linus or a penguin
<lotusleaf> chillywilly: but it wasn't blessed by a penguin priest
<tseng> sigh
* chillywilly is a penguin priest for sure
<tseng> please stop/
<imbrandon> oh jez what did i start , lets kill it now
* imbrandon should have known better
<lotusleaf> can I get an amen?
<chillywilly> nothing wrong with having some fun, geez
<lotusleaf> chillywilly: no! fun must be stopped before people experience the sin of enjoyment!
<chillywilly> not my fault you guys didn't catch the reference ;)
<tseng> we asked you to move on
<pianoboy3333> where can I learn about signing packages?
<tseng> and i know that chilly willy is a penguin, thank you
<LaserJock> pianoboy3333: debsign?
<imbrandon> pianoboy3333: it should be covered in the packageguide
<tseng> bug #61550
<pianoboy3333> yea.... sure... really?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61550 in f-spot "UVF exception request for f-spot 0.2.1" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61550
<imbrandon> afaik
<lotusleaf> tseng: we?
<pianoboy3333> imbrandon: I did a find on 'sign' at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Debian-Binary-Package-Building-HOWTO/
<pianoboy3333> I got nada
<iapx8088> hi all
<iapx8088> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> pianoboy3333: what are you trying to do?
<iapx8088> hi tseng
* LaserJock hates email again
<tseng> lotusleaf: me, imbrandon
<lotusleaf> tseng: :) oh, thanks
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ever find out when the freeze officialy starts ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, which freeze?
<imbrandon> hum ok
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: beta freeze sometimes in the next hours
<pianoboy3333> LaserJock: well, when you build a package, don't you have to sign it? with gpg?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, start of the dev meeting, I think...
<iapx8088> I'm trying to understand something motu related
<pianoboy3333> LaserJock: I never quite understood what gpg was, and I'd like to learn more about it
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> No, it's not like the others :(
<iapx8088> if a package of mine comes into universe, I will be the mantainer?
<imbrandon> iapx8088: if you created it and wish to be yes
<pianoboy3333> iapx8088: only if you like latkas....
<iapx8088> imbrandon, and if it was a spinoff of a unofficial debian package?
<chillywilly> pianoboy3333: http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html
<Fujitsu> Can maintainers upload new versions of their packages in Ubuntu?
<pianoboy3333> chillywilly: what does gpg do?
<chillywilly> rtfm :)
<imbrandon> iapx8088: but that doesnt mean you are a MOTU or can upload it without a sponsor etc etc etc , just like in debian, you can maintain a package ( i do a cupple ) but not a be a DD ( i'm not a DD )
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: if they are a MOTU
<Fujitsu> I thought as much.
<LaserJock> we don't really have maintainership in the Debian sense
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: no i maintain a cupple in debian but still have to have sponsors upload for me
<iapx8088> I see
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, OK>
<Fujitsu> *OK.
<pianoboy3333> chillywilly: so it encrypts crap
<pianoboy3333> chillywilly: why is that important to building debs?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: but in ubuntu its a "group" ( e.g. MOTU or core-dev depending on the packages ) maintainer ship
<lotusleaf> pianoboy3333: the manual outlines the importance of the use of gnupg
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, noted.
<chillywilly> it's also a way of verifying identity and creating a "web of trust"
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, encrypts, as well as signs. Signing is the important bit.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: there are just people that stick to one area becouse thats what they are familiar with , like i have the ability to upload a new kernel but i dont dare ;) heh
<imbrandon> but they dont /have/ to
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, obviously.
<chillywilly> time to make a pizza
<Fujitsu> The one thing I was unsure on was whether maintainers of packages in Ubuntu could update them without being a MOTU.
<Fujitsu> And that's now been clarified.
<LaserJock> Ubuntu and Debian are pretty similar for non-MOTU/non-DD people
<LaserJock> you need a sponsor
<LaserJock> just in Ubuntu the sponsor is MOTU
<imbrandon> yup yup
* imbrandon needs to rope ajmitch into being his debian sponsor
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> i just got an email to that a package went into testing hehe
* ajmitch knows nothing
<imbrandon> but i still have one open bug i need to close
* imbrandon forgot what it even was
<imbrandon> anyone else actualy booted into the -8 kernel ? hobbsee said it broke her X but i havent rebooted since the update
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, have you had a look at that {sci,num}py?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I think there'd be a few more people complaining if the kernel broke X like that
<imbrandon> true
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, probably.
<imbrandon> hrm the new console ( actualy tty not term emulator ) is very nice
<plugwash> depends how many people it broke it for ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you mean the font?
<imbrandon> i should figure out what it is and set konsole to use it
<imbrandon> ajmitch: err yea the font
<plugwash> if a kernel upgrade broke X for one obscure graphics adaptor then you wouldn't see too many complaints
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you know what font its set to now ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea
<imbrandon> plugwash: iirc hobbsee uses i810
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> it looks like a real 80s throwback
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you dont like it ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I use i810, but I uses 2.6.16 (xen) still
<imbrandon> i think it looks cleaner
<imbrandon> easy to ready imho
<imbrandon> -y
<ajmitch> not particularly, it doesn't look as clean at 80x25 on my laptop
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: doing it still, sorry. I'm doing a million things right now :-)
<imbrandon> ahh yea probably would look skewed at 80x25
<Fujitsu> OK, no problem :)
<ajmitch> last time I booted my laptop with 2.6.17, there was no usplash for my laptop, so I saw it a bit :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<lotusleaf> will the kernel selection/other os selection part be revamped sometime? I really like how SUSE's has a nice graphical display
<imbrandon> i just noticed it yesterday
<imbrandon> lotusleaf: possibly someday ;)
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> you mean the grub selection menu
<imbrandon> btw
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> lotusleaf: not for edgy
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: :)
<lotusleaf> ajmitch: k thx ;)
<ajmitch> feature freeze, etc
<ajmitch> so it's out
<imbrandon> its fairly easy to drop a gziped pixmap in there but its getting the AiC to agree to one ;)
<lotusleaf> I don't mind it but I move a lot of people from windows to ubuntu and they always think it's weird, but they get used to it
<ajmitch> you could look at working on it with the appropriate people for edgy+1 :)
<lotusleaf> ajmitch: :) good point thx
<Fujitsu> A spec may be a good idea.'
<imbrandon> the ability is already there, its just there is no art , but definately something to look at in edgy+1
<Fujitsu> Although it's very simple.
<lotusleaf> awesome
<ajmitch> imbrandon: also getting it set to the right resolutions, playing nice with usplash, etc
<imbrandon> yea i actualy have mine set to one from einstein
<gnomefreak> everyones usplash works but mine?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: the grub menu dosent affect the usplash afaik, infact if there is a file named correctly ( have to look up the name ) in the /boot/grub/ dir , it will use it right now
* gnomefreak needs to figure this out :(
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: what does signing actually do?
<lotusleaf> pianoboy3333: did you see the links I provided you in #ubuntu-offtopic?
<imbrandon> pianoboy3333: verifys the package was made by you and not tampered with since you made it
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, proves that whatever is signed hasn't been modified since it left you.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: making sure that svgalib doesn't break & die switching from grub to usplash.. :)
<pianoboy3333> lotusleaf: yes, I'll have to get to those
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ahh yea true
<ajmitch> stuff can break, it has to be checked
<lotusleaf> pianoboy3333: splendid, they answer a number of potential questions you may have about gpg and encryption in general. :)
<Fujitsu> Did that Ubuntu-themed usplash actually eventuate? It hasn't appeared yet as far as I know... But the Knot 3 page says it's there.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i se a kubuntu one ever time i boot ;)
<imbrandon> if thats what you mean , the test card has been replaced
<Fujitsu> Has it? Hm...
<imbrandon> with semi-final artwork
* Fujitsu checks edgy-changes.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: you'll ahve to go back a bit, it was all done prior to knot 3
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I've got it going back since the start in my mailbox, I'm searching through there :)
<iapx8088> night people
* Fujitsu rebuilds the initramfs.
<iapx8088> see you tomorrow
<imbrandon> wow gotta love this ....
<imbrandon> From:
<imbrandon> "Allison Guerra" <imbrandon@kubuntu.org> To:
<imbrandon> imbrandon@kubuntu.org
<imbrandon> from me to me
<tseng> hah
<Fujitsu> Terrific.
<monger> I have a question about building kernel-packages..
<pianoboy3333> So if I were to make a gpg key for myself, I should use the default and make a DSA and ElGamal key?
<monger> I'm having some trouble changing the version number of the packages being built from the source package
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, yes.
<imbrandon> monger: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
<chillywilly> pianoboy3333: this is all in the GPG Hanbook, please just read it for crying out loud :)
<monger> When I try to change this in the debian/changelog my build-process starts complaining after the kernel compile that there is a version mismatch
<pianoboy3333> chillywilly: I am, I am, I just prefer someone to explain crap to me, that's all
<monger> imbrandon, I have it here on the screen
<imbrandon> monger: ( and afaik its all in debian/changelog just like any other package )
<monger> imbrandon, thanx I'll try it again
<monger> I probably f*cked up something other stupid
<monger> :)
<pianoboy3333> chillywilly: should I make the key never expire?
<chillywilly> yea
<monger> It's just a little frustrating that kernel building takes so lonnnggg.
<monger> ;)
<imbrandon> !find kernel
<ubotu> Found: kernel-package, kernel-wedge, klogd, linux-kernel-headers, nfs-kernel-server (and 83 others)
<pianoboy3333> chillywilly: so what happens if I change my email later on... do I have to make a new key?
<imbrandon> !search kernel
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, just add a new ID.
<imbrandon> !customkernel is <reply> Information about building your own kernel for Ubuntu ( and the risks ) can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
<ubotu> I'll remember that, imbrandon
<imbrandon> !custom kernel is <alias> customkernel
<ubotu> I'll remember that, imbrandon
<imbrandon> !search kernel
<imbrandon> blah
<LaserJock> hah
<imbrandon> !custom kernel
<ubotu> Information about building your own kernel for Ubuntu ( and the risks ) can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
<imbrandon> still works, !search is broke
<LaserJock> :/
<imbrandon> !zen
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about zen - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> !xen
<ubotu> xen is a a virtual machine monitor for x86 that supports execution of multiple guest operating systems with unprecedented levels of performance and resource isolation. It can be found at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/
<imbrandon> whats zuls wiki page ?
<imbrandon> !no xen is <reply> XEN is a virtual machine monitor for x86 that supports execution of multiple guest operating systems with unprecedented levels of performance and resource isolation. Information on installing it for Ubuntu can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenOnEdgy
<ubotu> I'll remember that, imbrandon
<imbrandon> !xen
<ubotu> XEN is a virtual machine monitor for x86 that supports execution of multiple guest operating systems with unprecedented levels of performance and resource isolation. Information on installing it for Ubuntu can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenOnEdgy
<imbrandon> okies , done my bot maint for the day ;)
<monger> :>
<gnomefreak> universe freeze is over?
<imbrandon> universe wasent frozen afaik
<gnomefreak> still time to add packages?
<imbrandon> barely
<LaserJock> universe freeze is the 28th
<gnomefreak> just saw a request and i think its a great idea
<gnomefreak> xorg-edit
<imbrandon> sax2 ftw
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> suse advanced x config thing or something, i dunno but it rocks
<imbrandon> even uses framebuffer/vesa if no X is avail
<lupine_85> is edgy universe frozen yet?
<lupine_85> (for new packages)
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> lupine_85: 1 week
<lupine_85> in that case, I nominate 'rutilt' :)
<LaserJock> !info matplotlib edgy
<ubotu> Package matplotlib does not exist in edgy
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:imbrandon] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | [Edgy MoM]  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
<LaserJock> !info python-matplotlib edgy
<ubotu> python-matplotlib: python based plotting system in a style similar to Matlab. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.82-5ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 47 kB, installed size 112 kB
<lupine_85> I've been using it in Dapper for a while and it's a wonderful tool - would be especially handy now that Edgy supports all ralink cards OOTB (it's a GUI config tool for them)
<imbrandon> lupine_85: package it and upload it to REVU ;)
<imbrandon> or poke someone willing if you cannot ;)
<lupine_85> I've built basic packages before... I'll give it a go :)
<imbrandon> lupine_85: if you need a hand feel free to ask in here
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I was also going to update that.
<lupine_85> (the current packages I've got for it are checkinstalled, which is... bleh)
<lupine_85> My problem is likely going  to be that I've only got an amd64 Edgy box
<imbrandon> arg , dont curse in here though ( checkinstall )
<lupine_85> I know - I was after something quick :p
* Fujitsu slays imbrandon!
<Fujitsu> You said the dirty word!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: good, because numpy will uninstall our current package
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, noted.
<LaserJock> hmm, this will be a bit tricky
<imbrandon> lupine_85: only amd64 shouldent be a problem quite a few developers only have one arch
<Fujitsu> I hate all these tight versioned dependencies :(
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, what?
<lupine_85> So I have to create a source .deb first, I assume?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, the new numpy confilicts with our scipy
<lupine_85> brb, must boot back into edgy
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: but the new scipy requires numpy
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, does it conflict!?
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> python-scipy won't install for me now :(
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: for python-numpy : python-scipy (<= 0.5.0-2), python-matplotlib (<= 0.87.4-3)
<Fujitsu> Woops, I didn't fix that dependency...
<LaserJock> why do you need to fix it?
* Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<Fujitsu> It /conflicts/ with it. That's fine...
<LaserJock> yes
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, just install them both at the same time?
<LaserJock> but that'll be interesting for people upgrading
<LaserJock> if we don't get all three done at once
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, same happened with {,g,s}obby/net6, nobody exploded.
<Fujitsu> This is a development release.
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: what should I add for the comment?
<Fujitsu> Breakage is permitted.
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, nothing is necessary.
<pianoboy3333> should it be like "Go Pink Floyd!" ?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know, but it's nice to avoid it if possible ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, it's not really possible, because there's a sync or two which we can't control the time of.
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: can I make it "Go pink floyd!"
<Plug> Pink Floyd, you say?
<pianoboy3333> ;)
<imbrandon> pianoboy3333: for ?
<pianoboy3333> the gpg comment for the signature
<Fujitsu> Brb, need to do Windows support for brother >_<
<imbrandon> heh , well its your gpg sig soooooooo
<imbrandon> heh 19inch much have been cycled the net connection
<imbrandon> must*
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> ello bddebian  , how gos it
<Fujitsu> Back.
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon.  Busy man :-(  You?
<bddebian> wb Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Heya bddebian.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: did you hand him a Kubuntu LiveCD ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, unfortunately he wants to play The Sims 2 (which that evil little thing torrented, I'd been wondering why our connection was so slow)... And the only computer in the house with a properly 3D-capable graphics card runs Windows, and I'm in no mood to attempt to get Wine working with The Sims 2...
<Fujitsu> However, that's the only computer in the house (out of 5) that runs Windows.
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> brb
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: so now that I made a key, I can sign packages I build with it?
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, using debsign, yes.
<pianoboy3333> ok
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: debsign or gnupg?
<LaserJock> debsign for packages
<Fujitsu> (debsign uses gnupg)
<LaserJock> or debuild automatically does it
<LaserJock> hmm, can I get somebody to give me a little unicode text?
<Plug> e
<LaserJock> like with some accents and stuff
<Fujitsu> 
<Plug> I  unicode
<Fujitsu> 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: can you try that once more
<Plug> (putty needs to default to UTF-8)
<LaserJock> I've been trying to get my mac to do unicode in irssi
<Plug> there are irssi options
<Fujitsu> 
<Fujitsu> There's some nice random accented crap :P
<LaserJock> :/
<LaserJock> 
<LaserJock> hmm
<pianoboy3333> So when I'm finally ready to build my package, what is the best command to run? debuild?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<bddebian> or dpkg-buildpackage :-)
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: if I want to sign it, should I do it now, or will debuild prompt me, or do I need an argument to debuild to specify that I want to sign it
<Fujitsu> debuild should prompt you for the passphrase.
<pianoboy3333> is there a -rfakeroot argument to debuild?
<Fujitsu> No.
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: this isn't good:
<pianoboy3333> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<pianoboy3333>  signfile hello_2.1.1-1.dsc Alex Brown <pianoboy3333@juicemedia.tv>
<pianoboy3333> gpg: skipped "Alex Brown <pianoboy3333@juicemedia.tv>": secret key not available
<pianoboy3333> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<pianoboy3333> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<pianoboy3333> debuild: fatal error at line 1151:
<pianoboy3333> running debsign failed
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, make sure your entry in the changelog matches the name on your key. Including comments.
<pianoboy3333> ah...
<pianoboy3333> I can't believe I did
<pianoboy3333> this
<pianoboy3333> I forgot my passphrase
<pianoboy3333> I made it two seconds ago
<pianoboy3333> DAMNIT
<pianoboy3333> I purposly made it really simple
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: what do I do now....?
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333, delete and recreate the key, I suppose.
<pianoboy3333> uggg
<pianoboy3333> Fujitsu: how do I delete it?
<Fujitsu> gpg --delete-secret-keys [insert key ID here] 
<pianoboy3333> ok
<pianoboy3333> can I encrypt text files with my gpg?
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<pianoboy3333> with what tool? gpg?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<pianoboy3333> --encrypt or --encrypt-files?
<Fujitsu> --encrypt will ask you for input on stdin, with --encrypt-files you can specify a file.
<pianoboy3333> so now file.gpg is encrypted?
<Fujitsu> Presumably.
<pianoboy3333> and if I want to decrypt it?
<Fujitsu> gpg --decrypt-files...
<pianoboy3333> ok, thank you
<Fujitsu> When in doubt, man gpg.
<LaserJock> uggg
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, what?
<LaserJock> darn it, I've been fighting with mutt all day
<LaserJock> and I'm more confused then when I started
<Fujitsu> And python-scipy now installs!
<Fujitsu> And I'm going to attack matplotlib with an axe when I get back... Invalid conversions from char * -> const char * and the like.
* lupine_85 seems to have a slightly-working package
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<imbrandon> ello Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon
<bddebian> Hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<Toadstool> imbrandon: you're a core-dev now? wow, congrats :)
<imbrandon> Toadstool: yup, and thanks ;)
* Toadstool missed a lot of Ubuntu stuff these last 3 weeks :/
<imbrandon> hehe
<lupine_85> argh! it compiles it's paths into the source code
* lupine_85 spanks rutilt
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ping?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how often are the REVU keys synced with LP?
<ajmitch> as often as someone asks us to do so
<imbrandon> LaserJock: when you poke ajmitch  ;)
<LaserJock> ok, that's sort of weird
<LaserJock> ubuntu-universe-contributors is an open team so people can join any time
<LaserJock> put then they have to go poke and REVU admin to actually be able to do anything
<imbrandon> ajmitch: couldent that .py or what ever it is you run just be put on an hourly cron or something?
<imbrandon> it is kinda silly to have it open but closed heh, leaste if it was closed you would know when it needed sync'd
<LaserJock> right
<imbrandon> ajmitch: btw is there any way to grant someone ( thinking of myself ) access to run the revu-tools on packages
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, there was intended to be *some* checking of users for uploads
<ajmitch> syncing the keyring takes awhile & uploads get rejected in that time, iirc
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> some locking could probably be put in
<ajmitch> to access revu-tools, you need an account on tiber
<LaserJock> well, but couldn't it be like an hourly cron or something?
<ajmitch> I can probably set that up
<ajmitch> LaserJock: write the code, we'll be happy :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: that would rock if you could
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I don't even know what you guys run
<ajmitch> it hasn't been done mainly because noone has had time to do it
<imbrandon> python ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: source is in bzr on launchpad
<ajmitch> a mix of python & shell scripts
<LaserJock> my problem is I'm trying to finish the packaging guide tonight
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> and I'm not sure what to put for that part
<ajmitch> 'finish'?
<ajmitch> it'll never be finished
<LaserJock> finish for edgy
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<LaserJock> doc string freeze is todayish
<Toadstool> uhuh :)
<imbrandon> i would put that they need to ask in in here after they have joined the team for it to be "ack'd"
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, lau
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, LaserJock
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
<imbrandon> wb Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
* Hobbsee hopes that todays updates will *unbreak* her X
<LaserJock> I would think an email to admin at tiber would be better
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i think there is a revu-admin team , thus email
<imbrandon> that woudl send it to them all
<imbrandon> would*
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> nvm
<imbrandon> LaserJock: https://launchpad.net/people/revu-admins
<imbrandon> even though it looks like thats not the full list
<ajmitch> there should be 4 of us
<ajmitch> so the members of revu hackers
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> ok, I'm going to be done with it
<LaserJock> I managed to clean up a little and added a chapter from pitti's patch school session
<lupine_85> anyone still awake? :)
<Hobbsee> no
<lupine_85> hehe
* lupine_85 is having difficulty transforming a bit of source code using sed
<seth> depends on your definition of awake
<lupine_85> s/$WithSlashes// doesn't work
<lupine_85> so i'm a bit stuck
<lupine_85> manpages suggested s\?$WithSlashes?? ... but it doesn't work
* ajmitch is not awake, but is working his way through some caffeine
<lupine_85> (this program has it's /path/to/files hardcoded into it)
<ajmitch> s.$WithSlashes..
<ajmitch> it should be able to use many other characters
<ajmitch> but / is just most commonly used
<lupine_85> sed -i "s./home/lupine/Desktop/build-rutilt/rutilt-0.12/debian/rutilt.." /home/lupine/Desktop/build-rutilt/rutilt-0.12/include/StaticSettings.h = sed: -e expression #1, char 63: unknown option to `s'
<ajmitch> ah, it has a . in it already, of course
<lupine_85> ah, so it does
<lupine_85> ah, we have life...
<ajmitch> great
<lupine_85> thanks :)
<lupine_85> it "should" now be ready for REVU, unless I've missed something else as well
<ajmitch> upload it then :)
<lupine_85> just testing the install
<lupine_85> ok, that works. Now to get added to the keyring...
<ajmitch> lupine_85: you've joined the group, i hope?
<lupine_85> Launchpad group?
<ajmitch> yes
<lupine_85> <click> I have now :). Well, pending moderation
<lupine_85> I tried to join it a week or so back but couldn't find the linky at the time
* ajmitch checks
<rmjb_> hello all
<lupine_85> I'm "Nick" on there
<ajmitch> open team, so I don't need to moderate it
* ajmitch resyncs keyring
<rmjb_> man, sometimes I don't know why I'm paying for broadband, 10s of seconds of lag in XChat and simple webpages timing out
<rmjb_> anyhow, I have a question about dapper packages
<rmjb_> since dapper is LTS, is it's packing policy like debian stable, where if it aint broke don't fix it kind of thing?
<rmjb_> meaning packages wont generally be upgraded unless there's a security issue?
<Fujitsu> rmjb_, yes.
<Fujitsu> Unless there's a security issue (or sometimes major bug fixes), Dapper is frozen.
<Hobbsee> rmjb_: that happens with all the non developmental releases
<rmjb_> so take mythtv, version 0.18 is in dapper's repos, version 0.20 just came out, that's not going to be packaged for dapper?
<Hobbsee> correct
<LaserJock> there is always -backports
<rmjb> who decides what gets backported?
<LaserJock> the backports team
<rmjb> ok...
<LaserJock> and the archive admins, I believe
<Hobbsee> depends if hte current edgy version builds for dapper, without changes
<rmjb> well with 3 years on the desktop, that could be quite a chore further down the road... in a year or so
<LaserJock> mhm
<Hobbsee> rmjb: likely most people will upgrade to edgy or edgy+1
<Hobbsee> i mean, we only see very few users still on breezy
<StevenK> I saw a post to SLUG with a Hoary box
<Hobbsee> scary
<Hobbsee> seeing as that's EOL'd in under a month
<StevenK> Oh, this was just after Dapper released.
<Hobbsee> ahh okay
<thom> StevenK: yeah, but australia is always years behind
<StevenK> So they may have upgraded.
<Hobbsee> that's not quite so bad
* Hobbsee kicks thom 
* StevenK kicks thom in the irony
<Hobbsee> thom: you must be a new zealander?
<thom> speaking of, i should figure out how many million Eur flights to lca will be
<Hobbsee> seeing as everybody else is behind us.
* Fujitsu attacks thom with a Hobbsee.
<thom> Hobbsee: pfft. chronologically maybe.
<StevenK> thom: Except when it comes to cricket, since our team seems to be 5 wickets in front all the time
<rmjb> well those that want the LTS of dapper will be conflicted... already dapper has preference over edgy in shipit, where they aren't going to ship edgy discs, but continue on dapper ones
<thom> StevenK: oh. remind me who the current holders of the ashes are, in that case?
<StevenK> thom: That was a donation.
<StevenK> "Oh, give it to them, they haven't seen the thing in 20 years."
<thom> uhuh.
<Hobbsee> rmjb: true, but edgy+1 i'd assume would be a normal release
<Hobbsee> rmjb: if we upgraded dapper with everything that edgy has, it'd be edgy.  *shrug*
<lupine_85> "something" isn't right here
<rmjb> Hobbsee: yeah I know that... just wondering how it would work
<rmjb> this means there's a team in place for 3 years to maintain the dapper and dapper-backports repos then?
<StevenK> Not everything is suitable to backport, you know?
<Hobbsee> the backports in general, yes
<ajmitch> 3 years doesn't necessarily mean that backports will be there
<ajmitch> 3 years is for security & critical fixes
<rmjb> I understand, I guess things will be backported by public demand, as they say
<rmjb> unless the next LTS version comes out before 3 years is up, then that leaves an option open to the LTS people
<ajmitch> backports aren't officially supported anyway
<StevenK> rmjb: Backports may well be stopped when Edgy releases
<Hobbsee> depends if the people doing the public demanding actually do something to get what they want, i guess
<Hobbsee> instead of just asking for it
<StevenK> Which people do the public?
<rmjb> I guess, but people that stay on dapper will generally be those paying cannonical for support, and if enough "request" a new... mysql say, that might be enough insentive
<lupine_85> for some reason, dpkg-buildpackage isn't automagically signing the files (because it's fakeroot?), and signing them manually (with --sign and --clearsign) isn't working
<Hobbsee> lupine_85: use debsign -kyourkeyid *source.changes
<rmjb> anyhow guys, thanks for the discussion and clarrification... I'd really like to join this group, and help he-man
<rmjb> oh, and Go Windies! though we lost against India today (
<lupine_85> that worked - thanks. Easy when you know how :)
<lupine_85> now let's see it get ripped to shreds ;)
<imbrandon> okies off to be i am, gnight Hobbsee StevenK ajmitch and *
<Hobbsee> night imbrandon
<lupine_85> night :)
<ajmitch> night imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Night!
* lupine_85 breaks the revu website
<Kagou> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi.
<yusufm> hi
<yusufm> hi
<yusufm> I have a signing question
<yusufm> I created my gpg key
<Fujitsu> OK.
<yusufm> and its in my .bashrc
<yusufm> but I keep getting
<yusufm> this error
<yusufm> when runnign debuild -S
<yusufm> gpg: skipped "Yusuf M <yusufm@test.com>": secret key not available
<yusufm> why isn't it finding my key?
<Mithrandir> what does gpg output if you run gpg --list-keys?
<Fujitsu> It means your secret key doesn't have an ID named identically to what you put in the changelog.
<yusufm> pub   1024D/2CC97543 2006-09-16 [expires: 2006-12-15] 
<yusufm> uid                  Yusuf M <yusufm@gmail.com>
<yusufm> sub   2048g/C78F3CC1 2006-09-16 [expires: 2006-12-15] 
<Hobbsee> yusufm: specify debuild -S -sa -k<yourkeyid>
<Mithrandir> 'Yusuf M <yusufm@test.com>' != 'Yusuf M <yusufm@gmail.com>'
<Fujitsu> The issue is the test.com vs. gmail.com...
<yusufm> ok
<yusufm> got it
<yusufm> i'll try it again
<Hobbsee> that too
<yusufm> cool, that worked
<Fujitsu> :)
<yusufm> now I'm trying to do sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc
<yusufm> but I'm getting a bunch of errors, one line is:
<yusufm> E: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet?
<Fujitsu> You apparently haven't created the base tarball.
<yusufm> the directions in the packaging guide did not say anythign about running a create
<Fujitsu> yusufm, sure?
<Fujitsu> It probably assumed it.
<yusufm> I'm in the "building source package" section in https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<yusufm> I may have missed it
<Hobbsee> we dont link the pbuilder stuff in the packaging guide?  odd
<Hobbsee> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<yusufm> I'm running sudo pbuild create now
<yusufm> pbuilder builds in a clean env right?
<Fujitsu> yusufm, yes. Are you running Dapper or Edgy?
<yusufm> how would I test the new package I create in a clean environemnt?
<yusufm> dapper
<Fujitsu> yusufm, do you want to create packages for Edgy?
<yusufm> right now I'm just learning this
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<yusufm> I hope to be doing it for edgy going forward
<Fujitsu> Once you run sudo pbuilder build [whatever] , the binaries will appear in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/.
<yusufm> and then is there a way to run these binaries in a clean environment?
<yusufm> what i'm trying to get at is that there may be installed/etc. on my current system that may not produce bugs, but
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I usually run pdebuild
<yusufm> on normal systems they would produce the bugs
<Fujitsu> Ooh, I like the look of that, StevenK :)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: You didn't know that one?
<Fujitsu> I'd heard of it, but never looked into it.
* ajmitch still uses pbuilder build most of the time
<Kagou> yusufm: please read entire document https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/gs-pbuilder.html
<StevenK> Wow, I may well have doubled Fujitsu's productivity, and he's already filing syncs and merges like a rocket-powered chipmunk.
<Fujitsu> I've not done so much the past few days, unfortunately... School gets in the way of things :(
<Fujitsu> But in 5 weeks, I'll have more than three months off :D
<Fujitsu> Nothing to do but Ubuntu!
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> And I like chipmunks :)
<StevenK> Heh
<Kagou> doko_: take all the cpu time on build farm ...he use pbuilder intensively ;)
<Fujitsu> Yay, I've got 71 done sync requests I've filed, and 31 done merges... As well as a number of other bugs I've converted to sync requests :)
<Fujitsu> And a couple of bug fixes thrown into the mix as well :)
<Fujitsu> Hm... Plus all the merges before the new workflow.
<Hobbsee> heh, nice
<Fujitsu> Not particularly.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: oh dear.  dont do that :P
<StevenK> Hobbsee: :-P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: the scary thing is, Fujitsu reminds me of myself, before i got MOTU
* Fujitsu gets back to doing physics work.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, how?
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, how.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's scary
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: rather
* ajmitch used to be young & enthusiastic as well
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: havent you seen my impressively long list of packages?
<Fujitsu> How's it scary?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I have.
<ajmitch> now I get all twisted & bitter & work on a smaller set of packages
<Hobbsee> half the time, launchpad times out loading them all :P
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: when we all hit MOTU, we seem to become lazy
<ajmitch> work is chewing up too much time at the moment
* Fujitsu compares his package list to that of Hobbsee's before 2005/07/18...
<Fujitsu> Hm. Similar, but yours are all useful, (ie not merges and syncs).
* ajmitch did a lot more before the shift to launchpad
<Fujitsu> When did Soyuz actually come into proper use?
<StevenK> Just before Dapper, I think
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.  some are undos of my previous stuff
<crimsun> Hobbsee: not everyone. slomo's truckin' away at least.
<Hobbsee> true htat
<StevenK> What's a htat?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hah.  yes, and i made myself look like an idiot by asking who Soyuz was
<StevenK> Is it like a hat?
<StevenK> Bwahaha
<Fujitsu> And crimsun's doing all the u-u-s uploads, which must be a bit of a hindrance :P
<Mithrandir> Fujitsu: we switched to soyuz in February.
<Hobbsee> it's a hat, and when you read it, a large saucepan comes and bashes you over the head
<StevenK> Hobbsee: :-P
<Fujitsu> Mithrandir, OK, thanks :)
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee and runs off
* Hobbsee makes a note to do that tomorrow
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: run fast..
* Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir, makes him stay on the ground, and STOMPS ON HIS FEET!
<Fujitsu> :O
<Hobbsee> hah!
<Fujitsu> You can't do that to the release manager!
<Hobbsee> sure i can
<Mithrandir> Fujitsu: she just did. :-/
<Fujitsu> :O
<Hobbsee> awwww....
* Fujitsu attacks Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> poor Mithrandir.  would you like a hug?
* Mithrandir breaks up the fight
* Fujitsu realises he can't do that to a MOTU either.
<Mithrandir> hugs++
* Hobbsee attacks Fujitsu with her long pointy stick
* Hobbsee hugs Mithrandir 
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: did anything come of that unionfs issue with mono?
<tseng> omg hugs
* Fujitsu dodges the stick.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: I know what the issue is and I think I know how to fix it, but ENOTIME so far.
<ajmitch> alright
<Mithrandir> maybe today.
<tseng> Mithrandir: there's a hug in it for you
<Hobbsee> tseng: a hug given by whom though?
<tseng> Hobbsee: me
<tseng> Hobbsee: or you, whoever he finds prettier
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Are you planning on going for MOTU?
<Hobbsee> tseng: hehe
<ajmitch> tseng: I think the answer to that would be simira
<tseng> sure
<tseng> can be arranged
<Fujitsu> StevenK, eventually... I'm not sure when I'll qualify though...
<Fujitsu> There's no rigidly defined guidelines, which is annoying..
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I had done far less than you, I recall
<Fujitsu> But you were a DD!
<StevenK> Were?
<crimsun> considering you've hauled the majority of the syncs lately, I'd say you're in a good position to apply anytime. I'd write down some universe plans.
<ajmitch> lots of small fixes are useful, they may look for more than that
<Fujitsu> Well, are, but you were at the time.
* StevenK beats Fujitsu with a book on tenses.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> did anybody announce a REVU day?
<Hobbsee> no, i'm conveniently ignoring it :P
<shawarma> Plug: I am now..
<dholbach> hmhrmhrmhrm
<Plug> shawarma: nm, I think I found out how you did it from the packages
<shawarma> Plug: Did "it"?
<Plug> Changed the source to put things in the right directories
<Plug> for the nm-pptp plugin
<shawarma> Plug: Ah. Yes, it's quite simple, actually.
<shawarma> Plug: I changed the makefile.am, the .name file and lastly the .c or .h file that referenced it.
<fatal__> is the MOTU organisation similar to the sponsoring process in Debian? A maintainer for a package can't upload it himself?
<Hobbsee> fatal__: only MOTU's can upload packages to universe, and only core devs can upload packages to main.  you dont have to be the maintainer to change a package
<fatal__> ok, thanks. :/
<Fujitsu> Somebody care to reupload convertall (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3202), it was just rejected from NEW due to something going screwy with debian/copyright.
<iapx8088> mmh
<iapx8088> imbrandon,  should all new packages in edgy have debhelper>5.0.0?
<iapx8088> imbrandon, I read so debian/control build-dep debhelper should be >=5, not >=4
<iapx8088> in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3202
<iapx8088> and moreover, where can i find all those guidelines
<xerxas> Hi
<iapx8088> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi.
<ivoks> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi ivoks.
<ivoks> can someome give me a hand with cdbs?
<ivoks> dholbach: ping :)
<dholbach> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> dholbach: could you help me with cdbs? :/
<dholbach> I can try
<ivoks> i have one bin, couple of libs and one -dev in source
<dholbach> ok
<ivoks> i did everything ok, but i just can split files to packages
<ivoks> i've created .files for every package
<dholbach> create   .install    files
<ivoks> but cdbs just ignores that
<dholbach> they work good for me
<ivoks> .install?
<ivoks> doh.. :)
<dholbach> debian/<binary-package>.install
<ivoks> thanks
<dholbach> if it goes wrong, feel free to tell me
<dholbach> running    dh_install --list-missing    is usually a good idea too
<dholbach> (if you split things up)
<ivoks> true
<Fujitsu> Any MOTUs around that can review a small change to convertall on REVU?
<Fujitsu> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3202
<ivoks> ok...
<ivoks> now it's ok
<ivoks> dholbach: one more tiny question :)
<dholbach> fire away
<ivoks> dholbach: linda reports The .la file /usr/lib/libburn/libburn.la contains a libdir which is different to its path
<iapx8088> mmh
<dholbach> sounds like an upstream problem
<dholbach> does it use .pc files?
<ivoks> yes
<dholbach> then you don't need to install the .la files
<iapx8088> why dpkg-buildpackage needs -k? I have my keyid in export as the motu guide says
<ivoks> ok, thanks
<dholbach> iapx8088: -k if you build the package for somebody else
<dholbach> iapx8088: (and are planning to upload it for somebody else)
<xerxas> can someone review my package for pymsn, it's here:
<xerxas> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/pymsn/ubuntu/
<iapx8088> dholbach, dholbach, no I want just to sign with my key
<xerxas> to test it , there is cocoon , an msn client
<xerxas> cocoon can be found at http://projects.collabora.co.uk/~asabil/bzr/cocoon/
<iapx8088> I just followed https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<dholbach> iapx8088: debuild -S should suffice
<iapx8088> let's try
<iapx8088> mmh secret key not available
<iapx8088> mhmhmhmhmhm
<iapx8088> it's there, everything is fine if I specify with k
<Fujitsu> iapx8088, make sure the ID you listed in the changelog is indentical to that on your GPG key.
<iapx8088> ha!
<iapx8088> ok
<Fujitsu> *identical
<iapx8088> thanks!
<Fujitsu> No problem :)
<iapx8088> Fujitsu, by ID you mean the email? I don't remeber the right place to put the key in Changelog, nor I see it in the official package changelog (in the source of cours)
<Fujitsu> iapx8088, the ID, like mine is:
<Fujitsu> William Alexander Grant <william.grant@ubuntu.com.au>
<iapx8088> ergh
<Fujitsu> That matches an ID on my key.
<iapx8088> I have it, maybe it's not identical
<iapx8088> thanls
<Fujitsu> It needs to be indentical :)
<Fujitsu> *identical
<Fujitsu> I keep making that same typo :(
<iapx8088> ok it's going
<iapx8088> it was Giuseppe Dia (Dia) <giusedia@libero.it>
<iapx8088> the comment was wreaking havoc
<iapx8088> that (Dia)
<Fujitsu> Yes, it does that.
<iapx8088> sorry I closed
<iapx8088> I did ask that before, where can I find a guideline to questions like (why I should put debhelper>5 and not >4) in the wiki?
<iapx8088> or (should I put debhelper>5 even if I have a dapper drake but I usual use an edgy pbuilder?)
<dholbach> that's stuff that *should* be in the packaging guide
<dholbach> or in MOTU/FAQ
<iapx8088> thanks
<dholbach> or rather point to the relevant bit of the debian policy
<Tonio_> any revu admin there please ?
<Tonio_> dholbach: hey ;)
<Tonio_> dholbach: I'm trying to upload transkode (package from fabo) to revu, but upload fails, is that possible to nuke existing stuff ?
<dholbach> Tonio_: I'm no REVU admin.
<Tonio_> dholbach: ah...
<Tonio_> siretart: ping ?
<Tonio_> or raphink ?
<raphink> busy phonr
<raphink> phone
<Tonio_> raphink: okay ;)
<iapx8088> mhmh rather confusing
<Fujitsu> Any MOTUs able to upload a small debian/copyright change from REVU? convertall was rejected from NEW because I managed to mangle it accidentally.
<iapx8088> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources it says: to put the target suite to be dapper ( I would expect edgy)
<Fujitsu> iapx8088, yes.
<iapx8088> yes edgy?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: looking
<Fujitsu> Thanks, dholbach.
<iapx8088> Fujitsu, i did not catch it :D.
<xerxas> is there a motu here that can review my pymsn packaging ?
<xerxas> what the name of the RFP for ubuntu ?
<xerxas> other question: is there a MOTU planet ?
<Nafallo> no, just Ubuntu Planet AFAIK
<xerxas> ok
<iapx8088> mmh I cannot find it everywhere
<Fujitsu> What?
<iapx8088> nor in the deb maint guide, nor in the policy
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> It should be there!
<iapx8088> if I should put edgy or dapper (and this has nothing to do with debian) and the version of debhelper to put (5 or 4)
<iapx8088> Fujitsu, here nothing (or wrong, regarding the target) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources and no other info
<iapx8088> of course the deb maint guide knows nothing about edgy :D
<iapx8088> oh, anyway it's never going to go into universe.
<cassidy> dholbach: i'm looking your mail to ask a UVF break. How can i get "attach diffstat, changelog and build-/install-log (as files)" ? :)
<dholbach> cassidy: it's not UniverseFreeze yet
<dholbach> (if you ask for Universe)
<cassidy> dholbach: ohhh nice !
<dholbach> Sep 28th
<cassidy> dholbach: i have to fill a bug ?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> after Sep 28th
<dholbach> main is frozen already, universe not yet
<dholbach> ubuntu-release for main, motu-uvf for universe
<cassidy> i have to fill a bug to request a sync with Debian ?
<dholbach> that too yes
<dholbach> and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<cassidy> ok ok, thanks !
<dholbach> super
<cassidy> et hop https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/apt-proxy/+bug/61635
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61635 in apt-proxy "Sync request" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<iapx8088> dholbach, am I to put edgy or dapper as a target (faq says dapper!) and should debhelper be 5 even if I'm not using PY?
<dholbach> we can only upload new stuff to edgy
<dholbach> so 'edgy'
<dholbach> dapper is closed
<dholbach> dapper-updates, maybe, but rather edgy
<iapx8088> I see
<iapx8088> let's go for edgy
<iapx8088> and what about debhelper?
<iapx8088> I believe it should be 5, if we are going for edgy
<iapx8088> am I right>
<Plug> neat
<Plug> New changes have caused my NM VPN plugin to die :)
<Plug> but I have a rough idea why, at least
<Plug> just its soooo late
* Plug can't convince libraries to move out of /usr/lib :(
* Yagisan takes the plunge, and updates his desktop to edgy.
* Fujitsu crosses his fingers for Yagisan.
<Yagisan> Fujitsu, thanks mate. already noticed it forgot all my evolution passwords
<Fujitsu> Fantastic!
* Yagisan wonders why universe upgrades are smoother ...
<Nafallo> Yagisan: those are in gnome-password-manager now :-)
<Nafallo> no
<Q-FUNK> #61626
<Nafallo> gnome-keyring actually
<Yagisan> Nafallo, oh - so they are in the application that didn't get installed o_O
<Q-FUNK> bug #61626
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61626 in cups-pdf "Please sync cups-pdf (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61626
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Nafallo> Yagisan: :-)
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, nononono.
* Yagisan installs missing app
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, you need to subscribe, not assign, ubuntu-archive, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, so they can approve it.
<Fujitsu> And don't confirm them yourself, unless you became a MOTU while I wasn't looking :P
<Yagisan> nice to see everything else is going well so far
<Fujitsu> Good, Yagisan :)
<Yagisan> not like my brrezy -> dapper upgrade
<Fujitsu> What happened there?
<Q-FUNK> hm.  how do i subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors ?
<Yagisan> damm uni eating all my time
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, `Subscribe someone else'.
<Yagisan> Fujitsu, it wasted the system completely
<Yagisan> heh firefox had a name change
<Q-FUNK> those modal menus in launchpad really take some getting used to.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, please see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html.
<Fujitsu> There are a couple of other things you need to take care of.
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: hm?  such as? the ony item I see there is the changelog excerpt
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-archive is still assigned, and that.
<Q-FUNK> Bug #61427
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61427 in upgrade-system "Please sync upgrade-system (universe) from unstable (main)" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61427
<Q-FUNK> comapre with this one.  done with pitti's script
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: who does it get assinged to then?
<Yagisan> :( no OO.org for me
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, nobody.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, the archive admin will assign themselves when they do it.
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Fujitsu> And don't confirm them yourself.
<Fujitsu> If you do, they'll not get acked by a MOTU, so they won't be synced.
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> well, pitti's script auto-confirms, so...
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, it's probably meant for MOTUs.
<Q-FUNK> you remind me that I should porbably add myself to the next meeting's agenda.
<Fujitsu> Which meeting?
<Q-FUNK> community council, iirc
<Fujitsu> For doing what?
<Fujitsu> Membership?
* Q-FUNK parses thru his bookmark for the list of tasks to perform to join motu
<Fujitsu> Yes, membership is one...
<Q-FUNK> right.  that would be membership first, then prove yourself, then be consdered for motu.
* lupine_85 spots his mistake
<Plug> ok!
<Q-FUNK> anyhow. I'm mostly interested in eliminating the delta between versions f my packages at debian and ubuntu.
<lupine_85> could a nice admin resync the keyring? :) I (tried to) join the wrong group this morning (ubuntu-dev, not ubuntu-universe-contributors!).
<Plug> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3206
<Plug> try THAT one on for size
<lupine_85> I assume that's why the package I uploaded hasn't shown up in revu yet
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, I noticed you'd attempted to join today :)
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, prove yourself, then membership, then prove yourself more, then be considered for MOTU.
<lupine_85> that's what I get for trying to work at 5am, I guess :)
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: 1st step is already done with over 2 years of package maintenance at debian.
<Fujitsu> But contribution to Ubuntu?
<lupine_85> will I need to re-upload to revu or do things uploaded by people it doesn't recognise get held for a while?
<Q-FUNK> adding to that merging Ubuntu patches
<Plug> Fujitsu: thats the part he's trying to do now, you see. :)
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, you'll need to reupload.
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: reading my homepage on Launchpad might be useful to you at this point. ;)
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, what about it?
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: did you read it?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, yes...
<Q-FUNK> did you also ead the wiki page?
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK, there's a little more on there :)
<hikenboot> hello all---I was suggested that ubuntu edgy (6.10) would have germinate-update-metapackage...it does not and it doesnt appear to be available in its apt-sources list (which is exceptionally short with only 4 entries) was the information I was told wrong?
<Q-FUNK> and that "little more" has been there for a long time, if you check the changelog :)
<Yagisan> WTF?! alleyoop just dumped a /debian dir in my root directory
<Fujitsu> Yagisan, fun.
<Yagisan> I hope no one here touched it last
* Yagisan off to lp so check for bugs on it
<Fujitsu> There was an upload of it today...
<Fujitsu> Or yesterday, it appears.
<Fujitsu> I remember it...
<Fujitsu> Although it was just adding a .desktop.
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: I was on the community council agenda, ages ago.  However someone (jdub or mako - I forgot which one) said that my wiki page was too sketchy, but would not say on which aspects.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, you need to document what contributions you've made to Ubuntu.
<Q-FUNK> I think that's already there.
<Plug> I think he's trying to contribute now. ;)
<Yagisan> Fujitsu, I see. crimsun touched it last o_O
<Fujitsu> Wha?
<Fujitsu> No...
<Q-FUNK> Plug: I think you're tryng to be funny now. ;)
<Fujitsu> Changed-By: Matti Lindell <mlind@cs.joensuu.fi>
<Plug> No, seriously
<Fujitsu> (0.9.0-6ubuntu1)
<Plug> it's not very clearly laid out (or it is, but its somewhat odd for outsiders)
<Plug> that you contribute to MOTU first by not actually being a MOTU :)
<Q-FUNK> reverse fuzzy logic.
<Yagisan> Plug, I thought it was clear when I first came here
<Fujitsu> Yagisan, as did I.
<ajmitch> probably because you contribute to ubuntu, not to MOTU
<Plug> I know how it works
<Yagisan> ajmitch, hows it going ?
<Plug> I'm just saying that you shouldn't try and scare good DD candidates off. :)
<ajmitch> alright, how are you?
<ajmitch> if they're DDs, they can't be scared off by a little bureaucracy
<Yagisan> ajmitch, not bad. zero free time recently though :(
<Yagisan> don't even have time to tinker at the moment
<Yagisan> right bug #61644 filed.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61644 in alleyoop "Alleyoop dumps a debian directory in /" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61644
<StevenK> Nice!
<ajmitch> someone did a broken upload
* Fujitsu looks at.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: You've done enough, get off!
<StevenK> :-P
<Fujitsu> I've only fixed like 3 package bugs, the rest have been merges/syncs :P
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Tough!
<Yagisan> and now to reboot because update-manager is bugging me. brb
<Fujitsu> Erm: Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<Fujitsu> Indeed, it does put crap everywhere...
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Feature.
<ajmitch> oh, they changed the maintainer field finally?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yup.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, why?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: There's a spec about it.
<Fujitsu> Global change?
* ajmitch knew it was on launchpad, wasn't aware it was switched on this week
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The short story is because most DD's *hate* Ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, noted.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And yes
<Fujitsu> I knew there was a spec about it...
<Fujitsu> I didn't know it was actually being done, though,.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: If you file bugs in the Debian BTS with an Ubuntu address, you may be told about a few fire trucks.
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: or maybe they come here because they loathe Debian bureaucracy in the first place...
* ajmitch remembers to use his ubuntu address for all subsequent debian bug activity
<Fujitsu> I hear that a lot of maintainers eat Ubuntu people.
<StevenK> ajmitch: :-P
<StevenK> I came here because I like Ubuntu and want to help.
<Fujitsu> :)
<StevenK> Since then, I've discovered that Ubuntu is better...
* ajmitch is also a bit of a debian refugee
<Fujitsu> StevenK, yay :D
<slomo_> StevenK: i'm maintaining stuff in debian with my ubuntu address... and nobody killed me yet ;)
<StevenK> slomo_: Exercise patience.
<StevenK> :-)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I have a rant about Debian on my personal wiki.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, nice! I'm sure they love you for it.
<StevenK> No one else has seen it.
<StevenK> When I say personal, I mean _personal_
<ajmitch> what good is a rant if noone sees it?
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: ditto.  or well, ubbuntu is still debian, but a debian that if infinitely more usable out of the box than the stadad one.
<Yagisan> hmm. that was one very long, very slow boot
* ajmitch mainly finds working on ubuntu more enjoyable
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ditto.
* Yagisan ++
<Fujitsu> :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Um. I wanted the stuff off my chest
<StevenK> Oh yeah, I need to add to it
<Q-FUNK> It's probably a question of attitude, more than anything.  The situation at Debian reminds me a lot of what's going on in several LUGs in Finland, right now.
* Fujitsu test-builds the fix.
<Yagisan> :'( why do I get "ILLEGAL EXTENDED X86 OPCODE" messages from the kernel
<Yagisan> when booting
<lupine_85> ah, the joys of t'internet#
<Fujitsu> Debdiff uploaded to bug #61644.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61644 in alleyoop "Alleyoop dumps a debian directory in /" [Untriaged,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61644
* Fujitsu chastises self.
<Fujitsu> That took 25 minutes... Most of that attacking pbuilder, though.
<Q-FUNK> Something tells me that the wiki host might be overloaded.
<ajmitch> so it was a change that slipped through in the last couple of days that broke alleyoop
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, yesterday.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, it's been doing that over the past few days.
<Yagisan> hmm. does bootchart still work with edgy - I don't see any pretty charts that say I have a slow system
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Have you got a debdiff?
<Fujitsu> For what?
<ajmitch> alleyoop!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: hi
<Fujitsu> <Fujitsu> Debdiff uploaded to bug #61644.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61644 in alleyoop "Alleyoop dumps a debian directory in /" [Untriaged,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61644
<Fujitsu> Hi, Hobbsee.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It looks wrong
<Fujitsu> Does it?
<StevenK> 1) Does it build, and 2) Does the dpkg -c output look sane?
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> StevenK, it builds, and yes, it is sane, and yes, it actually gets displayed in the menus.
<ajmitch> StevenK: it is sane, but it's dh_install
<StevenK> Ahh
<ajmitch> so it adds debian/alleyoop to the dest path anyway
<xerxas> is there a motu here that can review my pymsn package ?
<StevenK> Oh right.
<Fujitsu> Yup :)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I'll upload it, if you want.
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<ajmitch> this is why I always build with DH_VERBOSE on my packages :)
<xerxas> it's at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/pymsn/ubuntu/
<Fujitsu> I don't generally request crackful uploads... I always check that the fixes I make actually work :P
<xerxas> howcome there is no bug on edgy ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+bugs ?
<Fujitsu> Because they're on Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Edgy.
<ajmitch> xerxas: because most bugs are filed against the package in ubuntu, not in ubuntu edgy
<xerxas> ok
<Fujitsu> Has the maintainer been set for just packages with Ubuntu changes, or everything?
<StevenK> Everything, except for Maintainers who have request to not have theirs mangled
<Fujitsu> Aha, nice.
* ajmitch is tired, the guiness earlier may not have been so good for trying to do work :)
<Hobbsee> hah
<Q-FUNK> LOL
<StevenK> Hah
<zul> ewww...warm beer
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: it's a good way to enforce leaxation, though. :)
<ajmitch> zul: eww no
* StevenK buggers off for ten minutes or so
<ajmitch> we're not english
* Q-FUNK is getting tired of the Linux kernel's hard-disk drivers distrupting keyboard operation
<lupine_a> ok, I try to upload using dput and it says "Uploading via ftp rutilt_0.12-1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.'"...
<lupine_a> that's with command dput -f revu *_source.changes
<ajmitch> lupine_a: you probably cancelled a previous upload, or did a binary upload
* ajmitch clears it on tiber
<ajmitch> try now
<lupine_a> aha, life! :) Thanks
<lupine_a> I uploaded it when not joined to the launchpad group by accident (I thought I'd registered, but that was actually ubuntu-dev)
<Yagisan> any other amd64 users getting  "ILLEGAL EXTENDED X86 OPCODE" on VT1 during boot ?
<lupine_85> I get that to - in edgy
<lupine_85> too*
<Fujitsu> StevenK, you are going to upload that at some point, aren't you?
<Yagisan> lupine_85, thanks for confirming it's not just me
<lupine_85> Yagisan: it's probably just because it's still a debug kernel
<Yagisan> lupine_85, I hope so. It's not something I'd want to see in a release build.
<lupine_85> hmmm, /me thinks that the keyring still doesn't have him on
<iapx8088> mmh
<zul> lupine_85: have you considered opening a bug report about it so the kernel team or some other team knows about it?
<iapx8088> it's just me that I'm having huge problems with internet
<iapx8088> or anyone else?
* lupine_85 is, but since it's caused by his ISP, he doubts they're related
<iapx8088> lupine_85, I'm thinking that too, but it's strange
<iapx8088> bbl
<Q-FUNK> hub: :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
* Fujitsu runs off to bed.
<lupine_a> can cany admin types check that my gpg key is in the keyring? Because I think it isn't :(
<lupine_a> (I followed the instructions, but slightly disjointedly ;) )
<lupine_85> ajmitch: I think I'm not in the keyring, still :(
<chantra> hi, could someone point me out to the categories available for .desktoip files
<Hobbsee> chantra: debian maintainers guide lists them all, and what they're fore
<Hobbsee> -e
<chantra> okie dokie, cheers Hobbsee
<fabo> Tonio_: i have uploaded exiv2 to revu, could you take a look :)
<fabo> or any other MOTU ;)
<Tonio_> fabo: not available at the moment, but ping me in an hour, I'll do it
<fabo> ok
<fabo> Hobbsee: :)
<Tonio_> ping me since I will forget this :)
* Hobbsee hides
<Hobbsee> i'm not reviewing anything at this time of night :P
<fabo> minimal changes :)
<hub> fabo: I don't see it
<hub> fabo: any link?
<fabo> hub: uploaded right now, will be refreshed in some minutes
<hub> ah
<hub> which the latest upstream version?
<fabo> you can find it here too -> http://fboudra.free.fr/ubuntu/exiv2_0.10-1.2ubuntu2/
<hub> fabo: why not providing the latest version instead
<hub> 0.11
<fabo> hub: because it was a quick fix to a Debian RC bug
<fabo> hub: but you're right, i can update to lates
<fabo> t
<hub> would make more sense as digikam 0.9 requires it
<fabo> hub: quick fix because i need it for kphotoalbum
<fabo> be back with 0.11 ;)
<hub> what fix?
<fabo> hub: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=386899
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 386899 in libexiv2-0.10 "libexiv2-0.10 ships a wrong shlibs file" [Important,Open] 
<sorush20> !azureus
<ubotu> azureus is a popular bittorent client written in Java, installation instructions can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AzureusHowTo
<sorush20> gnucash packge is very old please update it
<slomo_> sorush20: 2.0.1-3ubuntu3 seems to be pretty new
<sorush20> slomo_: oh I see its been updated recently then..
<sorush20> kmymoney?
<sorush20> how about that is that updated?
<fabo> sorush20: i'm on it atm
<fabo> sorush20: need to fix a bug before the upload
<sorush20> fabo: great..
<sorush20> I would just love to have some sort of eta in adept or synaptic for other packages.. but I think that is just being too fussy..
<fabo> sorush20: ask mornfall (adept)
<Adri2000> archive admins: please empty the queue !! :p
<sorush20> what repository did you see gnucash in ?
<sorush20> slomo_:
<slomo_> edgy/universe
<sorush20> slomo_: is that backported to dapper?
<slomo_> no
<sorush20> slomo_: so I can't use it in dapper..
<siretart> slomo_: Nafallo: http://tonelli.sns.it/pub/mplayer/etch/
<siretart> Andrea Mennucc has prepared a new mplayer upload for debian, currently sitting in new
* Nafallo looks
<sorush20> there is a .deb package for dapper in the ubuntu forums .. could you guys add it to the repositories ?
<Nafallo> siretart: looks like he haven't talked to upstream about his package yet ;-)
<fbond> sorush20, stable releases typically don't get a lot of updates ... ask in #ubuntu about using the backports repository, and if gnucash isn't there, you might need to get in touch with the backports maintainer
<fbond> * addendum: stable releases usually get security and critical updates only
<slomo_> Nafallo: i would assume "she"... but maybe it's only weird italian naming again or something :) and mplayer upstream said they talked with him/her
<siretart> Nafallo: at linuxtag diego told me that he was working closely with him/her
<sorush20> fbond: well I can't get my head around that.. if there is a newer version available people want it, even if the previous was stable or not,
<slomo_> sorush20: that's why the backports exist... ask them to backport gnucash to dapper
<sorush20> slomo_: so where do I ask?
<sorush20> slomo_: is there a channel?
<slomo_> sorush20: https://launchpad.net/products/dapper-backports/+filebug
<Nafallo> interesting that they have --enable-{win32,real,xanim} then :-)
<fbond> sorush20, it looks like someone has already filed a bug to backport GnuCash
<fbond> https://launchpad.net/products/dapper-backports/+bug/52486
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52486 in Baltix "GnuCash 2.0.0 " [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<fbond> You can add your +1 there if you'd like
<Nafallo> ehrm. Baltix?
<fbond> Nafallo, bug is listed as affecting both Dapper and Baltix
<Nafallo> ah
<fabo> hub: http://fboudra.free.fr/ubuntu/exiv2_0.11-0ubuntu1/
<hub> fabo: REVU
<fabo> i definitely have a problem to upload to revu
<fabo> my previous upload wasn't on REVU
<hub> make sure your dputrc is okay
<fabo> checking
<fabo> hub: my .dput.cf is ok, i have uploaded 0.11 right now
<fabo> Successfully uploaded packages ...
<chantra> hi, could someone help me out finding the .desktop application entries from debian maintainer's guide :s
<chantra> can't find it so far :p
<sharms> chantra: can you rephrase?
<kmr> hello, I had a question about a bug a filed on launchpad about a universe package. any MOTU around?
<sharms> might as well post the link?
<kmr> sure, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xmlrpc-c/+bug/61682
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61682 in xmlrpc-c "Please upgrade to new upstream, current version very old" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<kmr> I'm aware that edgy is in a feature freeze, but the debian package has an open wishlist bug for 15 months now (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=317979)
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 317979 in libxmlrpc-c3 "New xmlrpc-c upstream version available" [Unknown,Open] 
<kmr> is there a policy about upgrading packages that the debian maintainer is unresponsive to?
<kmr> oh, I see a launchpad reply "do it myself" -- that was quick!
<kmr> I did create an updated .deb package and offered to comaintain (I'm a debian developer) the package with debian maintainer, but he never answered my email
<kmr> hmm, seems to upload a package I'd need to be in the REVU keyring. Is that the best way to go about things or to submit an updated package to some group of MOTUs?
<kmr> that question goes further that I maintain about 20 of my upstream packages in debian. would it be worthwhile to upload my periodic updates to ubuntu as well? I imagine most/all of my packages are in the universe category
<sharms> kmr: one of the MOTU guys can upload it for you
<sharms> kmr: there is a devel meeting going on right now, I am sure one will be viewing this channel shortly
<kmr> sharms: very good, thanks very much for the info. in the meantime, I'll make a new .deb with the current upstream version
<Gloubiboulga> kmr, if your packages build/install/works fine on ubuntu, a sync is enough
<kmr> Gloubiboulga: what do you mean by sync? I've considered doing a NMU of this package on Debian for a long time, but since I'm using ubuntu in a production system, I'm thinking of bypassing the debian NMU procedure
<Gloubiboulga> kmr, I have not read everything you wrote, I was just talking about the packages you maintain in debian
<kmr> Gloubiboulga: I see. yes, I keep my upstream in debian well sync. But, this is for a neglected package in debian which I'm using in a production system
<Gloubiboulga> for the new release there's no NMU in ubuntu, so if you have a new package you just need to ping a MOTU to get it uploaded
<kmr> ok. I did send email as suggested about adding my key to REVU. From there an MOTU will review the upload, is that right?
<Gloubiboulga> you need to add yourself to the ubuntu-universe-contributors on launchpad
<Gloubiboulga> then ask for an update of the gpg keys database
<Gloubiboulga> (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU)
<kmr> Gloubiboulga: thx. joined the launchpad team and emailed by signed key to keyring@tiber.tauware.de -- thanks for the info
<Gloubiboulga> np
<kmr> Gloubiboulga: assuming this goes fine for the package that I'll prepare a NMU, should I also send my new upstream versions I upload to Debian to REVU, or just wait for Ubuntu to periodically sync from debian before a new release?
<Gloubiboulga> kmr, it will be synced
<kmr> Gloubiboulga: got it, thx
<phanatic> good evening
<Gloubiboulga> evening phanatic
<phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga
<Nafallo> no meeting anymore?
<hub> *sigh*
<hub> I hate when package depends on a specific version of dpkg-dev
<Q-FUNK> they tend to do that to ensure support of some new feature, such as enhanced package relationship wildcards.
<hub> I know
<hub> it just  makes it painfull to backport
<hub> when I come back from aKademy, I'll dist-upgrade to edgy
<hub> really
<kagou> hub, could you considere Bug #61709 ?!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61709 in ufraw "[Edgy]  An ufraw update is needed since the update to libexiv2-0.10." [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61709
<hub> kagou: working on it already
<hub> kagou: there was a merge waiting
<hub> should fix it
<kagou> Nice !
<hub> the reporter emailed me first
<hub> but if it does not, it'll have to wait until october
<hub> because I'll leave for aKademy soon and I'm not upgrading the laptop to edgy now
<kagou> hub, you have patched ufraw or exiv2 ?
<hub> no
<hub> just  a merge from MoM
<hub> for ufraw
<kagou> hub,  what's "MoM" ?
<hub> Merge-o-Matic
<kagou> ok
<kagou> hub, is there a link to see this on launchpad ?! Just to put as comment for the bug and to pass it on "in progress"
<hub> just marked as fixed
<hub> it should appear soon in edgy
<hub> it has been "accepted"
<AnAnt> seen bddebian
<AnAnt> !seen bddebian
<ubotu> I last saw bddebian (n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103) 2h 38m 47s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<AnAnt> ping lionelp
<AnAnt> ping dholbach
<AnAnt> dholbach: btw, no one yet replied the elinks-full email
<slomo_> siretart: beta freeze... :/
<AnAnt> what is beta freeze ?
<Nafallo> AnAnt: freeze for beta :-)
<AnAnt> Nafallo: when is that ?
<AnAnt> and does that freeze means that no other packages can be added to universe ?
<Nafallo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule :-)
<slomo_> AnAnt: "now" :) and only affects main
<AnAnt> oh ok
<AnAnt> universe freeze is next week ?
<Nafallo> 28:th, so yes
<AnAnt> after that anything still in REVU won't be REVU'ed for Edgy?
<AnAnt> what about those in queue ?
<pirast> chances that bug 57360 gets fixed in Edgy?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57360 in video-dvdrip "[debian-multimedia]  Sync dvdrip" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57360
<AnAnt> ping
<pirast> pong
<AnAnt> after that anything still in REVU won't be REVU'ed for Edgy?
<AnAnt> what about those in queue ?
<LaserJock> sort of
<LaserJock> new packages won't be able to get in unless they can get an exception
<LaserJock> but bug fixes that don't introduce a new upstream version or a new package can be uploaded
<AnAnt> LaserJock: so even those in queue won't get in ?
<LaserJock> AnAnt: which queue?
<AnAnt> LaserJock: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<AnAnt> LaserJock: btw, how about REVU'ing a package ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: sorry to hear that - it just proved in earlier times that duplication of source is problematic and the ftpmasters are not that fond of it
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok, got my email ?
<LaserJock> I believe only "accepted" packages will actually make it in
<dholbach> AnAnt: didn't check yet
<AnAnt> LaserJock: you mean accepted by REVU or by what ?
<LaserJock> but I'm sure the archive admins will try to clear out the queue by Universe Freeze
<LaserJock> accepted by the archive admins
<AnAnt> k
<dholbach> AnAnt: I won't get around to review it today
<dholbach> AnAnt: I'm very very busy with other stuff
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> LaserJock: can you REVU a package ?
<ajmitch> hi
<LaserJock> AnAnt: probably not today
<LaserJock> :?
<LaserJock> :/ I mean ;-)
<AnAnt> LaserJock: well, when you can, here's the upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3204
<AnAnt> well, got to sleep
<lucas> tetrinet anyone ? tetrinet.debian.net
<Arcus> Nice = - )
<pirast> hi, i'd like to have 3 packages from debian multimedia in edgy
<Arcus> Replace Microsoft all ready + - )
<LaserJock> pirast: heh, ok. are they on REVU already?
<pirast> LaserJock: yeah I am  - so revu is the best way?
<Arcus> This Server is Crazy Legit
<Arcus> I didnt know there was a legit IRC server
<LaserJock> Arcus: what?
<LaserJock> pirast: I think so, although you might want to ask the MOTU Multimedia team
<Arcus> LaserJock I was Checking out a Microsoft Game and Found myself here
<LaserJock> hahaha
<pirast> LaserJock: mhm i ll do it via revu.. thanks
<Arcus> Microsoft Closed Support for MechWarrior 4 Mercenaries
<Arcus> so I was looking at replacing there Zone match server
<Arcus> and then I found they use Apache Tomcat/4.1 For the Zone haha
<Arcus> that led me to this server
<Arcus> and I guess Apache can use Ubuntu OS
<LaserJock> haha
<Arcus> Crazy or What = - )
<LaserJock> Arcus: apace is a web server
<LaserJock> and it runs mostly on Linux and Unix OSs
<Arcus> Yes = - ) for HTTP
<LaserJock> like Ubuntu
<Arcus> Yup = - )
<Arcus> I trying to replace
<Arcus> [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\MechWarrior Mercenaries] 
<Arcus> "ZoneServer"="mekmatch.mektek.net"
<Arcus> So I am going to make a server on my other Box
<Arcus> I just need to figure out how they are distribthing the server list
<Arcus> Good Bye and gread job on the ***** star os
<LaserJock> cya
<pirast> LaserJock, okay, i think ill contact the motu multimedia team..
<pirast> how can i ask them?
<LaserJock> well first you need to figure out who they are :-)
<zul_> well...that was interesting
<ajmitch> we get all sorts :)
<pirast> LaserJock: :-) comeone, tell me who they are :-)
<LaserJock> pirast: https://launchpad.net/people/motumedia/+members
<pirast> okay thanks :-)
<LaserJock> so that would be crimsun or slomo or Nafallo perhaps
* ajmitch wonders if stuff in the data centre has gone AWOL
<ajmitch> some stuff is working very slowly
<ajmitch> like planet, and some things on launchpad
<pirast> what is the fuss about ubuntu-main-sponsors?
<LaserJock> fuss?
<pirast> what are ubuntu main sponsors?
<tseng> people who can upload to main on behalf of someone who cant
<pirast> ah ok thanks
<tseng> most developers can only upload to universe
<pirast> LaserJock: is it okay that I subscribed motumedia to the report?
<LaserJock> sounds fine to me
<pirast> thanks :-)
<Bazzi> slomo: thanks for the monodevelop update, very much appreciated
<slomo> Bazzi: np :)
<pirast> n8
<Yagisan> ah crap :( jamie@doomguy:~/COIT12170_Data_Comms$ *** stack smashing detected ***: /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice.bin terminated
<Yagisan> ^^
<Yagisan> right in the middle of an exam too
<marcin_ant> hi guys
<LaserJock> Yagisan: that sucks dude
<Yagisan> LaserJock, indeed it does
<marcin_ant> could someone here tell me why webmin was dropped in ubuntu and there is no package with this software?
<Yagisan> marcin_ant, no one maintained it
<Yagisan> marcin_ant, it's not trivial either
<marcin_ant> Yagisan: ubotu on #ubuntu says: "webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. Please avoid using it."
<marcin_ant> Yagisan: do you know what is the reason why ubuntu users should _avoid_ this software?
<LaserJock> what Yagisan just said
<Yagisan> marcin_ant, sure - it f*cks up your system files as it has not been updated to cope with the many many changes since it was last maintained
<marcin_ant> Yagisan: hmm right that can be a reason
<Yagisan> marcin_ant, ;) glad I could clarify it.
<LaserJock> it was removed from Debian
<marcin_ant> ok, now I understand, I just thought that there is some ugly security issue or something...
<Yagisan> no, no one looked after it, it started eating systems, and debian dropped it
<marcin_ant> btw do you know some good alternative for webmin?
<lupine_85> ah, so that's the reason :)
<lupine_85> hacking it's apache plugin to edit my apache2 config wasn't a good idea, then?
<marcin_ant> hi lupine_85 :)
<lupine_85> hi :)
<marcin_ant> so, we know why webmin was dropped but I still don't know if is there some good alternative
<lupine_85> the package I uploaded to revu still isn't showing up, by the way...
<marcin_ant> propably there is nothing simmilar or better
<lupine_85> marcin_ant: what sort of things are you trying to do?
<lupine_85> if it's simple stuff, a very well-protected cgi-enabled apache dir full of bash scripts would do, at a pinch
<lupine_85> or you could take up maintaining webmin ;)
<marcin_ant> lupine_85: well currently I would like to have something to replace squirrel mail and I use webmin to manage postfix server
<lupine_85> :( only a week left to get this package into the repos... I really don't want to have to keep hosting it if I can avoid it at all
<marcin_ant> lupine_85: on some freebsd machine
* lupine_85 uses squirrelmail :)
<lupine_85> that + courier
<marcin_ant> lupine_85: but I would like to replace this machine with some debian/ubuntu and well I would like to
<marcin_ant> lupine_85: do something usefull trying to write alternative to webmin using python and some ajax technologies
<Yagisan> the motu that fixes Bug #61742 is my personal hero
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61742 in openoffice.org "Crashes with *** stack smashing detected *** message" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61742
<marcin_ant> lupine_85: so I'm not too worried that webmin is dropped - I just would like to know if is there some replacement for webmin
<lupine_85> I don't know of one :(
<Yagisan> in the meanwhile - abiword gets pride of place
<marcin_ant> lupine_85: if there isn't I would like to try to write some
<lupine_85> sounds fun :)
<dholbach> good night fellas
<pygi> night dholbach
<dholbach> night pygi
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
<dholbach> night LaserJock
* ajmitch twiddles thumbs
<ajmitch> seems there are a few chroot problems
<ajmitch> causing builds to break
<StevenK> ajmitch: And the fact that doko has taken over them? :-P
<ajmitch> that's minor :)
<lupine_85> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> hello
<lupine_85> my package still isn't showing up in revu :(
<lupine_85> I think it's the keyring
<lupine_85> can you resync it (again, again!)? :)
<ajmitch> syncing
<ajmitch> it just checks every 5 minutes, so you probably tried to upload in that time
<lupine_85> (I got told last night/this morning that I'd have to reupload)
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3208
<lupine_85> yep, I've found it :)
* lupine_85 is proud
<lupine_85> thanks for your help
<lupine_85> now it just needs ripping to shreds :)
<ajmitch> first thing - version number :)
<ajmitch> 0.12-0ubuntu1
<lupine_85> so I edit the changelog (and control?) for that one?
<Hobbsee> not control, just the changelog
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<pygi> Hobbsee: you have a sec?
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> pygi: sort of
<pygi> Hobbsee: ah, nothing then
<ajmitch> morning Hobbsee
<lupine_85> edit the existing changelog entry? (since the 'new' version number would come out lower)
<ajmitch> you're unnaturally early
<ajmitch> lupine_85: yes
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed
<Fujitsu> Yes, you're /very/ early!
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Got my memo?
<Fujitsu> StevenK, yeah, thanks :)
<Fujitsu> I'd never used MemoServe before, I suppose it's quite useful :)
<StevenK> s/Serve/Serv/
<Fujitsu> Yeah, same thing :P
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I mainly use it for you people who aren't permanetly connected to IRC.
<ajmitch> blasphemy
<Hobbsee> not that early...
<Fujitsu> What's this? The third or fourth OOo build in 48 hours?
<Sp4rKy> hy
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: hi
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: i've talked with you about REVU pbuilder process
<Sp4rKy> and i've again an answer :
<Sp4rKy> with wrapper, does motu need to put their password for sudo start ?
<lupine_85> heh, revu's lintian doesn't seem to like the package... all seem related to it being for edgy, thoughh
* Fujitsu installs German support and starts a new session to test out bug 61698.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61698 in lyx "no unicode in menu" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61698
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-22
<siretart> slomo: huh?
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> ah, luckily, I uploaded xine just before the freeze announcement ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, though it's just slushy right now, as soyuz is not enforcing the freeze :)
<siretart> ajmitch: ;)
* ajmitch won't risk the wrath of the release team by uploading just now :)
<siretart> well, I need sleep. cu tomorrow!
<ajmitch> bye :)
<Yagisan> heh heh.
<Yagisan> I cited myself as a source of information, used for an assignment
<Yagisan> that will go down well.
<ajmitch> it usually doesn't in academic research without some results published that you can quote :)
<lupine_85> hehe
* lupine_85 wishes he could get away with that
<Yagisan> ajmitch, it was harping on about VPNs, so I cited my marking page
<Yagisan> s/marking/marketing
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch did you ever see about me an account on tiber ( and a rundown of the revu-tools script ) ?
<imbrandon> just curious, if your busy etc no worries
<ajmitch> no I didn't, was busy sorry :)
<ajmitch> I can do it now if you want
<imbrandon> sure
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hawkwind> imbrandon: Did you ever get any information on that bug I emailed you about...did the person you spoke to about it ever reply with anything ?
<Yagisan> now I'm off to grab some shuteye while the kids are in bed.
<Yagisan> catch you later - see if I can bust my system some more when I wake up
<Fujitsu> Bye!
<imbrandon> Hawkwind: i passed your information to them, i'll poke them again if they havent got to you
<Hawkwind> imbrandon: Thanks.  I keep asking because the guy who filed the bug originally is in need of those files to complete his project he's working on
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> ajmitch: the amd64x2's have sse3 correct ? ( you have an x2 iirc is why i'm asking )
<ajmitch> don't think so
<ajmitch> only up to sse2
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> that bites
<ajmitch> why? :)
<ajmitch> maybe later (AM2) X2s have it
<imbrandon> osx_x86 only runs on sse3 processors
<imbrandon> i was thinking about upgrading my proc so i could try it ;)
<ajmitch> I was wrong
<ajmitch> flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt lm 3dnowext 3dnow up pni lahf_lm cmp_legacy
<ajmitch> but wikipedia says it has sse3
<ajmitch> so what should I believe?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: you have and am2?
<ajmitch> the impeccable journalism of wikipedia? ;)
<imbrandon> heh i would beleave proc/cpuinfo
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> Nafallo: no, socket 939
<Nafallo> www.amd64.com fwiw
<imbrandon> heh well i was willing to grab a new cpu to play with it but not a new computer
* lupine_85 has socket754
<imbrandon> works ok on my ibook anyhow ;)
* StevenK doesn't even remember what his CPU is.
<StevenK> In terms of socket size, anyway
<StevenK> I have /proc/cpuinfo for the rest.
<Yagisan> imbrandon, there are ways to run osx if you only have sse2, but it's not on-topic in channel, and you'll need to ping me when I wake up for details
<imbrandon> Yagisan: yea i have done it but no rosetta and its SLOW ;)
<imbrandon> i seen the sse2 patch
<Yagisan> imbrandon, ok. so you already know then ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: well, check in some reputable places to find out if it does have sse3
<Yagisan> I don't need to warn you - but ubuntu is much better anyway :P
<imbrandon> yea i have 2 legit copies of osx ( 10.2 and 10.4 ) i was gonna play with but its not worth  new computer for ;)
<imbrandon> Yagisan: yup thus i run kubuntu on my ibook ;) well dual boot
<ajmitch> imbrandon: most places say it has sse3
<imbrandon> but hey its still a *nix os ;)
<Yagisan> imbrandon, ajmitch some amd64 models do have sse3, some don't. /proc/cpuinfo is your friend
<imbrandon> Yagisan: yea i cant on one i dont own yet though ;)
<ajmitch> Yagisan: referring to the X2, reports say all of them do
<ajmitch> but treports are conflicting :)
<imbrandon> i guess i could take a livecd to the store ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you get a chroot on OSX yet? :-)
<Yagisan> ajmitch, some eairly x2 steppings don't. All new should
<imbrandon> LaserJock: well i did and dident , i did as in i got it BUT it wont make ubuntu compat binarys becouse of the mach-o kernel
<ajmitch> Yagisan: mine's probably early
<ajmitch> stepping        : 1
<Yagisan> ajmitch, I have one of the earliest 754 models
<ajmitch> guess that means I have to upgrade then ;)
<Yagisan> ajmitch, I can't even run ubuntu amd64 in vmware :(
<ajmitch> worrying
<ajmitch> it runs fine for me
<Yagisan> ajmitch, stepping        : 0
<ajmitch> oh dear, a .0 release
<Yagisan> ajmitch, as I said - like - the very first ones
<Yagisan> ajmitch, but I bought it to run Ubuntu amd64 native, so I'm happy with it
<imbrandon> mine is a stepping 2 but not an x2 , here is the cpu info http://pastebin.ca/179121
<imbrandon> no sse3 ;(
<imbrandon> thus i was gonna upgrade it becouse the board will take an x2
<lupine_85> mine is a sempron socket 754 - now that's old ;)
* imbrandon rembers when mmx first hit 
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> yeah
<Yagisan> imbrandon, look at my old one -> http://pastebin.ca/179122
* ajmitch had a blazing fast p166MMX
<imbrandon> heh ___my___ first computer ( e.g that wasent a family comp or my dads etc etc etc ) was a pent pro 166
<Yagisan> anyway, I said I was going to bed -> outta here
<imbrandon> laster Yagisan
<lupine_85> I've still got a P120 pre-mmx somewhere :)
<imbrandon> heh yea i have some old one like that arround , just dunno where
<imbrandon> i had a 100mhz cyrix setup as a router not too long ago
<imbrandon> running sarge heh
<imbrandon> that got replaced with a 333mhz 96mb ram breezy-->dapper box , thats still running
<ajmitch> what have you started, imbrandon?
<imbrandon> wow no kidding
* lupine_85 strokes his VIC20 he turned into a router
<lupine_85> j/k ;)
<Nafallo> my first was a p75 with 16MB ram :-)
<Nafallo> ~500MB harddrive
<imbrandon> hahah i had a vic20 , well "we" did
<imbrandon> Nafallo: yea that p pro i had , had a ~800mb hdd and 32mb ram and a 4mb ati video card , i was rockin
<StevenK> My first computer was a 386SX 25 with 4Mb of RAM
<imbrandon> spent like 2k on it back then
<zul> mine was apple 2gs
<Nafallo> lol
* Nafallo hides
<imbrandon> heh we had apple //e's in school ( oragan tail anyone ? ) heheh
* lupine_85 remembers his 80x86
<imbrandon> with apple basic
<imbrandon> heh
<Nafallo> hmm
<lupine_85> I played with BBC BASIC a bit
<Nafallo> do not open flash-things from amd :-P
<lupine_85> and C=4 basic :)
<lupine_85> erm, C=64
<Nafallo> they make epiphany take 100% ;-)
<imbrandon> i rember spending lots of nights typing in peeks and pokes into a c64 also
<LaserJock> hmm, well my first non-family computer was a 1.6GHz Celeron from Wal-mart :)
<LaserJock> so there :p
<imbrandon> assembly was the only way to do cool stuff on the c64 ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> LaserJock: owow
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> My first non-family computer was this laptop, in January :P
<imbrandon> i seen a howto to gut a c64 and put a 900mhz system in it, with slimline dvd+rw drive and all
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, nice.
<Fujitsu> I've got two C64s here, one with a dead video connector :(
<imbrandon> the only thing i dident like was you couldent use the origial keyboard, it was just for show
<Fujitsu> And a floppy drive without power supply, I'm going to make one at some point.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, it should be possible to make a converter for the keyboard >:)
<imbrandon> yea you have to make a pcb to convert it to ps/2
<plugwash> hmm, bit of hardware hacking should get the original keyboard to work unless its really horrible
<imbrandon> http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c64/
<imbrandon> there it is
<lupine_85> Gut a C=64?!
<plugwash> someone got a beeb keyboard working on a linux box built in a beeb case with little trouble (iirc he used the pcb out of a cheap ps/2 keyboard to scan the original keyboard matrix and then remapped the keys in software)
* lupine_85 guts something else... ;)
<imbrandon> plugwash: yea i seen that
<imbrandon> the only other thing i would do besides a c64 is a NES and wire the controlers to the ubs ports with the orig connections etc
<imbrandon> i ahve seen that done too
<imbrandon> its very nice
<plugwash> really most keyboards are a matrix once you rip off the original controller so as long as your new controller can scan a matrix thats big enough and you have a way to remap the input in software you are fine
<plugwash> as a matrix is really the only sensible way to make a keyboard
<imbrandon> classic quite from the howto though .... "I bought a defect C64 on Ebay for almost two Euros. Sometimes you just have to throw in some serious money to get what you really, really want :-)"
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i can see showing up at the dev summit with a retro c64 + lcd to do some coding
<imbrandon> or akademy , kde running on a c64 ;)
<zul> heh 10 print "hello" 20 goto 10
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> add a ; to the end of "hello" and it would fill the screen ;)
<imbrandon> eg no linebreak
<zul> yeah i dont remember my basic
<imbrandon> load * ,8,1
<imbrandon> or soemthing like that
<imbrandon> would load the first program from the floppy device 8
<zul> of casette
<imbrandon> heh oh man , i hated those days the more i think about it, start to load a chess program and go eat dinner and come back it still would be laoding
<imbrandon> hrm i bet there is a c64 emu in universe
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I'm sure there is.
<Fujitsu> vice!
<imbrandon> yea just installed it, seems not to work
<LaserJock> gee whiz, you guys seriously don't have anything better to do? ;-)
<Fujitsu> I'm waiting for cernlib to build!
<ajmitch> go fix bugs
<imbrandon> heh good idea
* Fujitsu grumbles about the inadequacy of this laptop for building things like this... I really must buy myself a reasonable machine in the near future.
* StevenK hugs his 3GHz amd64
<Fujitsu> Gr...
* ajmitch hugs his dualcore amd64 
<Fujitsu> 1.3GHz Pentium Ms aren't great.
* imbrandon checks bugmail
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Ahh, that's my laptop.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: IBM X40
* ajmitch has a 2GHz P-M
* Fujitsu implodes.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I have 1.3 GHz P4 desktop
* imbrandon has a 800mhz ppc
<ajmitch> except it suddenly dropped off the network during a dist-upgrade :)
<Fujitsu> Oh, that one, ajmitch :P
* ajmitch won't point fingers at anyone :)
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon hugs his bbq sunflower seeds
<imbrandon> mmm
<hfntsh> anyone up to explain stupid things to a newbie?
<azeem> just ask
<hfntsh> well, i read all about creating, merging and updating packages.
<hfntsh> and experimented with it a bait
<hfntsh> but i couldn't understand where you list the open assignments
<hfntsh> or how do i get stuff to do
<lophyte> apt-cache -i unmet
<lophyte> those are all broken packages that need to be fixed
<LaserJock> merges.ubuntu.com for merges and syncs
<LaserJock> azeem: I've got a question for you
<hfntsh> and where do i submit what i've done?
<LaserJock> hfntsh: here
<LaserJock> azeem: how does one take of maintainership of a package in Debian?
<hfntsh> do i just upload it somewhere and send someone the link?
<LaserJock> azeem: Kyral would like to hand over EasyChem to debichem
<azeem> take over?
<azeem> oh!
<lophyte> submit it to REVU
<lophyte> or here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/019922.html
<azeem> I tried to ping him here some days ago
<hfntsh> thanks, i'll look into those
<azeem> LaserJock: the formal process would be to file a bug against wnpp, with a subject "o: easychem", and then one of us retitling it to "ita: easychem", and then upload with new maintainer (and closing the bug)
<hfntsh> as for REVU, i've added my launchpad account to the package contributor group, but still can't use my account to log into REVU. should i somehow create another one?
<azeem> but if he agrees, we can just upload with "New maintainer." I guess
<lophyte> hfntsh: not sure, I haven't used REVU yet
<azeem> actually, Daniel has prepared a rather lengthy NMU of easychem I wanted to upload to DELAYED over the last days, but didn't get around to
<LaserJock> hfntsh: you need to upload first
<LaserJock> azeem: ok, and I have a new upstream release of gausssum to package
<hfntsh> how do i do that without an account?
<LaserJock> hfntsh: dput
<elmore_> could somebody please tell me the best and most popular free software equivalents for secondlife?
<azeem> LaserJock: I am not quite sure how to handle the Maintainer: field for now, I suggest putting the main guy in there, and possibly me (and whoever else cares) in Uploaders: for the time being
<LaserJock> if I knew what secondlife was I could perhaps help ;-)
* Fujitsu attacks his changelog parser...
<LaserJock> azeem: we can't do a mailing list like some team do?
<elmore_> LaserJock: secondlife is something quite much similar to activeworlds, it's just that it's much more featured and it provides much more freedom
<LaserJock> hehe
<elmore_> what are the best equivalents to activeworlds?
<LaserJock> what's activeworlds?
<elmore_> alternatives
<elmore_> :))
<elmore_> i thought you knew about activeworlds
<elmore_> ok, they're both an alternative to there
<elmore_> "there"
<elmore_> the 3d world\
<elmore_> something like an internet "virtual" business
<LaserJock> wow, that doesn't make any sense to me
<LaserJock> hopefully somebody can help you though
<elmore_> what doesn't make any sense to you?
<LaserJock> it's business web software?
<azeem> LaserJock: we definetely should do this in the near future, yeah
<azeem> LaserJock: did you do any work on easychem, or have a special interest in?
<elmore_> download secondlife, the linux client, and see it for yourself.
<azeem> otherwise, I'll tell Daniel to put himself as Maintainer for now, upload and then we can see what to do about Maintainer: in general
<LaserJock> I haven't done any work on it
<azeem> ok
<LaserJock> also, i'd like to get bkchem
<LaserJock> I know Daniel has a package, and bddebian made one too
<LaserJock> I think it'd be a nice addition to the vast sea of molecular drawing programs
<azeem> oh
<azeem> totall
<azeem> y
<LaserJock> an undergrad in my lab said it was the best linux molecule drawing program he's tried
<azeem> I asked Daniel about it recently, and he said it needs to get transitioned to the new python policy
<LaserJock> that shouldn't be too hard
<azeem> I need to ask Barry for his package, maybe we can merge his stuff if he has done that
<azeem> LaserJock: I put bkchem into debichem svn if you want to take a look or just do it
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<azeem> let me see whether Daniel mentioned any other blockers
<LaserJock> I transitioned gausssum so I have a little bit of an idea of how to do it
<azeem> LaserJock: he also said there was a problem with a locally modified python-pmw
<azeem> he wants to sort it out with upstream, but I think we should just maybe just ship it in a non-default place to have it in etch/edgy
<azeem> LaserJock: tell me if you get around doing the python transition, and I'll talk to Daniel again about uploading it
<LaserJock> azeem: ok
<LaserJock> azeem: wow, I just svn up'd my debichem checkout :-)
<Fujitsu> Argh. My machine is now lagging up... It's actually using swap for the first time ever...
<Fujitsu> 8 minutes to confirm one of my syncs, crimsun! Not bad at all :)
<crimsun> sorry, I just reattached.
<fowlduck> jeeze synaptic is flakey
<Fujitsu> Is it?
<Fujitsu> I've never used it.
<fowlduck> well, under kubuntu edgy
<Fujitsu> Synaptic in Kubuntu?
<fowlduck> and azureus doesn't start
<fowlduck> ya
<imbrandon> LaserJock: secondlife is a MMRPG without the RPG , and you can make real money by making games in game with scripts
<imbrandon> heh
<lupine_85> creating new packages - where it says "you must include a copyright and a license file", does it mean a file (debian/license ?) containing the full versions of all licenses used by the program?
<Fujitsu> MMORPG minus the RPG.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> MMORPG ;)
<Fujitsu> A friend played it for a while.
<crimsun> azureus 2.5 will require considerable resources to merge
<crimsun> (someone else should feel free to tackle it)
<Fujitsu> crimsun, noted. I looked at it, and quickly ran away.
* imbrandon dosent know anything about java apps
<Fujitsu> Poor laptop... 5 pbuilders running, and it's really lagging up.
<imbrandon> but the startup thing is probably a bash/dash thing like limewire/frostwire
<imbrandon> without looking at it
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, probably... dash has caused a lot of issues, but it's a good idea.
<Fujitsu> Somebody in -offtopic is recommending X -configure rather than dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg... That's wrong, isn't it?
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> (it's just not the Debian/Ubuntu way)
<Fujitsu> Well, that's what I meant by wrong.
<imbrandon> either way works , its just what your used to
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<lupine_85> it's wrong in the same way that it's wrong to call the evening meal 'dinner'? ;)
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<minghua> well, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg hasn't worked for me in debian for quite some time
<imbrandon> minghua: what about ubuntu, i use it pretty regularly
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, same.
<minghua> imbrandon: sorry, I don't have an Ubuntu install currently
<imbrandon> minghua: was just curious , how does it "not work" e.g it segfaults ? dosnret write the config ? etc
<imbrandon> just wondering
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what's a MMRPG?
<imbrandon> MMORPG , massive multi player online role playing game
<minghua> oh, in my case, the debconf questions goes through fine, but /etc/X11/xorg.conf is not changed at all after the dpkg-reconfigure run
<imbrandon> like evercrack
<imbrandon> minghua: you are running it as root or sudo correct ? sorry i had to ask
<LaserJock> imbrandon: wow, that's worse then even Debian acronyms ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe
<minghua> imbrandon: yes, sudo
<imbrandon> minghua: not trying to talk down or such, just gotta "get on the same page" ya know ;)
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: im surprised you haven't heard of the term
<Fujitsu> It's a very common acronym...
<ajmitch> hi
<minghua> imbrandon: no problem, I am happy that someone else cares about my problem :-)
<imbrandon> hrm and you checked the file perms on xorg.conf and made sure it dident get made unwriteable for somereason ?
<minghua> imbrandon: and FYI, dpkg-reconfigure can't be run as an ordinary user
<minghua> imbrandon: good point
<imbrandon> minghua: i dident think so but i wanted to make sure ;)
<minghua> but that's a fresh install from etch d-i, so it's a bug either way
<imbrandon> right right , just trying to maybe narrow it down since etch is comming "sometime" ;)
<imbrandon> i dont have a debian proper install handy to test myself
<imbrandon> i do on the laptop but i'm lazy and its downstairs
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> and its sid anyhow
<lupine_85> hmmm... how would one go about packaging a compiler (fpc - www.freepascal.org) that depends on a binary (itself) which isn't in ubuntu, to build?
<bddebian> lupine_85: You have to bootstrap it.  It's not fun
<ajmitch> lupine_85: it's in ubuntu, needs bootstrapped
<imbrandon> bootstrap
<ajmitch> infinity was looking at it a couple of days ago
<lupine_85> so, would one put all the different compiler binaries into the source package?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> that would be evil
<imbrandon> heh
<lupine_85> fugly way of doing it :)
<ajmitch> bootstrapping of stuff like that is done on the buildds
<lupine_85> wget etc?
<minghua> imbrandon: the file permission looks fine (644, root:root), and I've just tried again, and xorg.conf is just untouched
<ajmitch> by an admin
<minghua> imbrandon: this is in a quite old chroot sid though
<imbrandon> minghua: wow , ok , i'll try it on mine when i get a chance , but it does workin ubuntu
<minghua> imbrandon: I'll try a fresh install again and make sure to report it before etch is released
<imbrandon> i would try to get someone to verify that and file a debianbts bug
<imbrandon> yup yup[
* lupine_85 uses lazarus, which depends on fpc :)
<ajmitch> now if this were #debian, and you were talking about ubuntu... ;)
<lupine_85> I was thinking about packaging the lot up at some point after finishing rutilt, but it sounds like something I wouldn't be able to do
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hahah i was thinking the exact same thing earlier
<imbrandon> ajmitch: but we're not that bad ;)
<ajmitch> of course not
<crimsun> Fujitsu: please complete your debdiff for #61768. It lacks the information listed in the new sync policy.
<crimsun> new merge policy, rather
<minghua> ajmitch: yeah, sorry to be off-topic :-)
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I've heard of RPGs but not MMORPG
<ajmitch> minghua: debian isn't offtopic here
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: World of Warcraft
<Fujitsu> crimsun, shall do...
<lupine_85> failing including the binaries, /me would change rules to wget the appropriate fpc<arch> binary and build using that ;)
<ajmitch> World of Addiction
<minghua> ajmitch: not even a debian bug that is unreproducible in ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> Oh, woops.
<Fujitsu> I'm sure I did that...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I thought that was Ubuntu
<ajmitch> minghua: doesn't worry me
<imbrandon> ajmitch: we're nice , ubotu dosent spit out "debian - an african word for i cant configure ubuntu" when you /mesage ubotu debian ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: different addictions :)
<ajmitch> I wonder if I can get f-spot into sid before I have to leave
<imbrandon> hehe
<bddebian> Have to leave?
<ajmitch> bddebian: in about 10-20 minutes
<bddebian> Oh, hehe
<imbrandon> ( note that was an sarcastic remark about the dpkg bot on oftc )
<minghua> naughty dpkg
<imbrandon> heheh
<lupine_85> surely "debian" is American for "no red under the bed here..." ;)
<imbrandon> minghua: "/msg dpkg ubuntu" sometime on oftc ;(
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I thought it was in the topic
<minghua> imbrandon: just tried.  not as bad as you described :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: it is
<LaserJock> I think it's rather funny myself
<imbrandon> 20:22 <dpkg> methinks ubuntu is 1. Ancient African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'. .......
<imbrandon> kinda childish heh but oh well so am I at times
<tseng> haha
<zul> oh they are just bitter
<tseng> with a nick of dpkg they must be an epert
<tseng> expert
<plugwash> dpkg is a bot
<minghua> imbrandon: childish indeed, but the 2. part is actually good and informative
<tseng> I see
<imbrandon> minghua: yea the 2 was just added in the last days
<Xnix> does anyone in here know if the edgy kernel has support for the echoaudio sound drivers
<Xnix> they are in official alsa for a while now, but i know they were not in dapper for some reason
<lupine_85> echoaudio? is that the name of the module?
<imbrandon> crimsun: did you get all the ubuntu-*-sponsor packages , or are there still some for me to poke at
<LaserJock> hhh, crimsun and Fujitsu are filling up my mailbox, excellent work you guys :-)
<Fujitsu> crimsun, fixed.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, :)
<crimsun> imbrandon: I've already done them.
<imbrandon> crimsun: cool , ok
<imbrandon> too fast for me
<crimsun> Xnix: they're enabled in Edgy
<Fujitsu> Oh, they're a lot more where they came from >:)
<Fujitsu> Oop.s
<crimsun> $ locate snd-|grep echoaudio|wc -l
<crimsun> 12
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: oh i'm sure ;)
<Xnix> crimsun :) AWESOME!! :) :) that made my day
<Fujitsu> There are a lot more.
<Xnix> crimsun thanks a bunch
<LaserJock> my pbuilder doesn't work that fast :/
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe
<imbrandon> i can see Fujitsu takin on merges.ubuntu.com all alone next release cycle ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> I'll have little better to do, with 3 months off school :P
<zul> heh i would do merges but im just a tad too busy
<imbrandon> zul: i can imagine ;)
<imbrandon> i did a tad bit of fixes earlier , the last few hours just been goffin off
<imbrandon> i think the only thing i actualy got uploaded today was a usplash fix
<ajmitch> back on monday
<imbrandon> laster ajmitch , have fun
<imbrandon> later*
<Fujitsu> Bye!
<rmjb> bye
<zul> imbrandon: ewww...you are actually touching usplash? brave man
<imbrandon> zul: heh just the post install to fix the kubuntu artwork on upgrade
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> ah
<imbrandon> yea i'm staying clear of that code till it settles ;)
<imbrandon> they are having enough fun with it without me muckin something up
<LaserJock> man, I think I'm getting some of these bug email 3 times
<fowlduck> me too
<fowlduck> or twice, rather
<LaserJock> I get 1 from ubuntu-science, 1 from ubuntu-universe-sponsors, and 1 from  universe-bugs I think
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> my procmail filters all that so i only end up with one
<slomo> Fujitsu: are you requesting syncs for all these packages only because debian has something newer or do you have any other reasons? :)
<LaserJock> the stupid  thing is, they are going to 2 different emails
<minghua> I decided to unsubscribe universe-bugs a month ago
<LaserJock> yeah, I might do that too
<LaserJock> I just don't get anything from it
<LaserJock> imbrandon: really?
<minghua> and my email traffic dropped to, like, one half
<imbrandon> slomo: afaik he is just going down the merges.ubuntu.com list , the ones that are syncs he is requesting
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm just trying to figure out how to use procmail
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea i love it
<imbrandon> i have a HUGE procmailrc though
<imbrandon> lol
<rmjb> for firefox to use native widgets, does it need a recompile?
<imbrandon> gmail --> fetchmail --> procmail --> imap --> client == heaven
<minghua> LaserJock: you subscribe to universe-bugs and doesn't use procmail?  amazing
<imbrandon> rmjb: native as in QT ? gtk ? or ......
<rmjb> gtk
<imbrandon> and either way yes
<rmjb> widgets on the pages I mean
<rmjb> not the chrome
<imbrandon> oh i have no idea about the page widgets, they are all qt looking for me
<rmjb> I dunno... buttons in gmail and so don't fit
<LaserJock> minghua: universe-bugs and it goes to my gmail
<imbrandon> LaserJock: all my mail go's to gmail first then fetchmail gets it and then procmail then imap
<imbrandon> then ME ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ok, that's it
<LaserJock> I need to figure out how you us fetchmail to get mail from gmail
<LaserJock> I got it to sorta work
<imbrandon> simple, lemme password sanitize my config and i'll give it to you
<LaserJock> but it downloads like 800+ email *every* time
<imbrandon> its like 2 lines in fetchmailrc
<imbrandon> LaserJock: mine dosent
<LaserJock> how do you run fetchmail?
<imbrandon> only new stuff, checks ever 60 seconds
<imbrandon> cron
<imbrandon> a crontab under my user account ever minute
<imbrandon> every
<minghua> imbrandon: you run fetchmail in cron?
<LaserJock> I think fetchmail can be run as a deamon
<imbrandon> minghua: yea not as a daemon
<minghua> imbrandon: any advantage that way?
<imbrandon> minghua: so i can have better control over when it stops etc, like i have it NOT run on weeksends and such if i want
<minghua> hmm, makes sense
<LaserJock> well, I don't think I can do cron stuff on the server
<rmjb> is Martin Pitt here?
<LaserJock> although if I could get my @ubuntu.com address to forward right then it would be a lot less irritating
<LaserJock> that's pitti
<rmjb> I guess he's not on now
<LaserJock> and I think he's probably in bed
<imbrandon> LaserJock: sure you can , run "cron -e" and you should be able to set user cron jobs on any shell account
<imbrandon> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ca/179271  <-- my fetchmail
<imbrandon> passwd changed of course
<LaserJock> imbrandon: how did you get the cert?
<imbrandon> you make it
<imbrandon> hold on one sec
<rmjb> anyone know the process to cobble together a variation of the english language settings in ubuntu and gnome?
<imbrandon> i used a howto
<imbrandon> btw its "crontab -e" not cron
<imbrandon> for user cron jobs
<rmjb> I want to create en-TT with en-GB spelling but en-US paper and currency symbol and customised date formats
<rmjb> is there a wiki entry that describes this?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: http://souptonuts.sourceforge.net/postfix_tutorial.html  <--grep for "5. Safety First: Configure fetchmail with STARTTLS"
<imbrandon> it explains how to do the ssl part for gmail
<imbrandon> LaserJock: you only need the stuff in section 5 of that page, ignore the rest
<lupine_85> wow, there's a bug and a half... el package created /share ! I dread to think what it did in /bin
* lupine_85 sees if the latest does that too
<imbrandon> sony rootkit ?
<lupine_85> heh, no it's mine!
<lupine_85> it's got a fugly build process and hardcodes paths into the binary
<lupine_85> ah, got it
<lupine_85> "./configure.sh --prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/rutilt" ... needs /usr on the end, lol
<minghua> rmjb: I don't quite understand you. did you mean to create a new locale?
<rmjb> I guess that's what it is, since it seems all the english variants are delievered in the same package
<minghua> rmjb: I remember reading it somewhere, but can't find it right now.  But I know it's not an easy task
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ok, if I just run fetchmail from a terminal it wants to download 500+ emails
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I have about 1300 total accoring to "All Mail" in gmail
<minghua> rmjb: if just for your own use, it's probably easier to just used mixed LC_* settings
<rmjb> What I'd like, is when you go to the Language Support toool in gnome you can choose English (Trinidad and Tobago) just like you can for English (Austrailia)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: do you have gmail set to delete the emails after they are grabed by POP
<minghua> LaserJock: https://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13291&topic=1555 ?
<minghua> LaserJock: I copy and pasted that URL from the debian Chinese user mailing list
<minghua> I don't use gmail myself
<rmjb> where can I customise my locale details?? like paper sizes (letter instead of A4), currency symbol, date format and so on?
<minghua> rmjb: oh I see.  I am not sure Ubuntu's language support tool can give you that detailed setting.  Anybody can confirm?
<LaserJock> minghua: hmm, yeah, that could be
<minghua> rmjb: open an X terminal and run "locale", those output are the individual settings
<rmjb> oh... well I guess all I want to do is create a customised group of those parameters and call that en_TT
<LaserJock> mwuahaha, I think it's working
<imbrandon> LaserJock: no i have it set to archive them
<imbrandon> LaserJock: it only gets so many at a time , the initial downlaod you have to run a few times
<imbrandon> gmail will only let you download like 500 then 300 then 500 etc etc etc untill it gets all 1300
<LaserJock> ok, that was my problem
<imbrandon> yea i have it set to archive them on gmail incase some catastrophy and my backups are good etc
<imbrandon> or sometimes its just easy to log into gmail when i'm on the road
<imbrandon> and even thought it shows as read i can still get it
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> that's exactly what I wanted to do
* LaserJock is happy again :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
* imbrandon testbuilds mythplugins
<LaserJock> not sure about the whole cron thing though
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, the new matplotlib won't build, but the new numpy (and thus scipy) conflicts with old one... What should be done?
<LaserJock> darn it
* LaserJock is sad again :(
<imbrandon> darn you Fujitsu
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I wonder why it doesn't build
<LaserJock> does it build fine in unstable?
* Fujitsu checks:
<Fujitsu> src/agg.cxx: In function int SWIG_Python_ConvertPtr(PyObject*, void**, swig_type_info*, int):
<Fujitsu> src/agg.cxx:1231: error: invalid conversion from const char* to char*
<Fujitsu> And a few others.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: So fix it :-)
<Fujitsu> Once matplotlib builds, numpy and scipy can be uploaded...
<Fujitsu> bddebian, I haven't dealt with C in weeks :P
<Fujitsu> (or C++, for that matter)
<Fujitsu> Yes, it builds fine in unstable.
<LaserJock> well, I really think our users (me included) will be a little upset with that old of a scipy in edgy
<Fujitsu> Yes, there's a bug or two about it.
<LaserJock> but of course I'd take an old scipy that works over a new scipy that doesn't :-)
<Fujitsu> Hm. The file with the fault is generated by SWIG...
<minghua> is src/agg.cxx auto-generated?
<Fujitsu> minghua, yes.
<Fujitsu> I'm trying to find the interface definition file...
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<minghua> SWIG is black magic to me.  but apparently it makes sense to Fujitsu :-)
<Fujitsu> minghua, I have a miniscule amount of experience with it...
<minghua> rmjb: it seems no en_TT locale exists
<Fujitsu> I just regenerated the offending file, and am now rebuilding.
<imbrandon> TT ?
<minghua> rmjb: is English the official language in Trinidad and Tobago?
<minghua> imbrandon: ^^^
<imbrandon> no idea
<rmjb> minghua: yeah, UK english tho
<rmjb> so we spell it like coloUr
<rmjb> instead of colot
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<rmjb> color
<LaserJock> yucky
<LaserJock> ;-)
<rmjb> BUT, we use US paper sizes and currency symbols
<LaserJock> oh man, you guys really are messed up ;-)
<rmjb> so a custom locale is what I want to put together
<minghua> ubuntu uses belocs-locales, right?
<imbrandon> yea the first patch i ever got Riddell to upload he changed all my changelog entries from color to colour ;P
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> rmjb: if you are not a developer, the first thing you can do is file a bug
<Fujitsu> I think it's got further in the build this time, but it's still going...
<Fujitsu> Good on him, imbrandon :P
<LaserJock> imbrandon: haha, that's funny
<minghua> rmjb: I believe against belocs-locales-data, but I need confirmation from those guys that can check
<rmjb> well if it's doable for green developers I'd like to give it a shot
<minghua> rmjb: let me try to dig a little for you then
<Fujitsu> Apparently not... It still fails :(
<imbrandon> who wants to donate a tv capture card to me ? ........ ( joke )
<LaserJock> If I had one I'd send it to you
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i might see about picking one up semi soon, i think i can get a cheap one thats linux compat for about 25$
<imbrandon> i wanna mess with time shifting tv
* lupine_85 has an old TV capture card
<LaserJock> well, I don't know what I'd do with one
<LaserJock> my tv and computer are on opposite sides of the house
<lupine_85> it's PCI... free to anyone who wants it :)
<imbrandon> lupine_85: send away
<imbrandon> ;)
<lupine_85> ask, and ye shall receive!
<lupine_85> well, depending on postage
<LaserJock> I *was* thinking of trying to figure out how to have my VCR record a couple shows tonight
<imbrandon> serouisly ? that woudl rock man
<lupine_85> seriously
<imbrandon> wow cool man ;) heh
<lupine_85> I'd better just check if it's linux-comaptible...
<Fujitsu> Aha! The issue has been picked up elsewhere, more python 2.5 stuff...
<imbrandon> lupine_85: i'm sure i could make it work if its pci
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> brb nother soda
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: can we tell it to not build on python 2.5?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, we can always do that, yes.
<lupine_85> yep, looks like it's good
<Fujitsu> At least, we should be able to...
<minghua> rmjb: found that one for you: http://people.debian.org/~barbier/talks/debconf5/glibc-locale.pdf
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<minghua> rmjb: it's a talk on DebConf5, there is even a video: http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2005/debconf5/mpeg/2005-07-15/06-Customization_of_GNU_libc_locale_files-Denis_Barbier.mpeg
<minghua> rmjb: good luck
<rmjb> thanks
<Fujitsu> There's a bug filed in Debian about how it shouldn't be using its own version of agg, but it hasn't been touched...
<rmjb> !
<lupine_85> imbrandon: I'll need an address to post to... if it's going par avion (I'm in the UK), you'll have to pay the postage I'm afraid
* lupine_85 is skint student ;)
<lupine_85> msg me or something when you get back :)
<lukaswayne9> I've just released a maintaince release on my package that's in edgy.  What should I do to get it in edgy?
<imbrandon> lupine_85: sure, one sec , sorry went to grab a drink
<lupine_85> np :)
<imbrandon> lukaswayne9: whats the package
<lukaswayne9> imbrandon: gfceu
<lukaswayne9> i've uplaoded it to the revu, but i need to reupload it
<imbrandon> sure, reupload and poke us in here
<imbrandon> is the best way
<lukaswayne9> thanks
<nixternal> imbrandon: what are you doing still awake?
<imbrandon> lupine_85: get a pen ? i'll shoot ya the addy, and then lemme know how much posteage and i'll paypal it to ya tomarrow
<imbrandon> nixternal: i'm VERY close to sleeping
<lupine_85> ready :)
<imbrandon> trust me
<nixternal> dude..you went to sleep supposedly hours ago ;)
<lupine_85> free stuff makes it all worth while :)
* lupine_85 is off to bed soon as well
<imbrandon> lupine_85: Brandon Holtsclaw, 9203 E 89th Street, Kansas City Mo. 64138
<imbrandon> +USA in there somewhere
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> you can email me ( imbrandon@kubuntu.org ) what the postage will be and i'll shoot it to ya paypal tomarrow sometime
<Fujitsu> 9203 E 89th Street!?
<lupine_85> ok. are you wanting postal insurance/whatever on it?
<imbrandon> nah , its only a pci card ;)
<lupine_85> oh, and it has a webcam as well (S-video I think)... you want?
<minghua> Hmm, so Kansas City is in Missouri...
* lupine_85 loves getting rid of stuff :)
<nixternal> in missouri and kansas
<imbrandon> lupine_85: sure , what ever you stick in the box i'll be happy with ;)
<nixternal> one of them goofy cities
<lupine_85> alrighty then :)
<lukaswayne9> imbrandon: i just uploaded it, so it will show up there in about 5 minutes probably
<imbrandon> minghua: its in both, half and half
* lupine_85 sticks some suspicious white powder in
<minghua> imbrandon, nixternal: I see, thanks
<Fujitsu> Wow, I'd been trying to work out how I was meant to get this to compile without python 2.5... Then I read the python policy... >_>
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: lol
<LaserJock> lol
<Fujitsu> Now, with any luck this'll work, and matplotlib+numpy+scipy can be uploaded, and LaserJock can be happy again :P
<lukaswayne9> will 2.5 be default for edgy?
<lukaswayne9> (python that is)
<Fujitsu> lukaswayne9, no.
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> its available but not default
<lukaswayne9> will all the libs be available for it?
<LaserJock> lukaswayne9: if they build
<lukaswayne9> oh, alright
<imbrandon> okies i'm off to sleep , lukaswayne9 post the revu url in here , and ask for MOTU's revu, someone should answer the call as long as you dont spam it ever 2 seconds ;)
<lukaswayne9> alright
<lupine_85> crappy royal mail website!
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> What!? This can't be! It BUILT!
<lukaswayne9> This is the link, but my upload isn't there yet:   http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3212
<lukaswayne9> it should be from 22:40ish, not 22:20
<lupine_85> doesn't load in firefox; only just manages it in konq. (even then, most of it is broken)
<lukaswayne9> Alright, it's here now
<imbrandon> =3213 is the new direct link
<lukaswayne9> So here is my official please some nice MOTU upload my updated package post:  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3213
* Fujitsu fumes... Stupid Python Policy, it makes things like this too easy.
<imbrandon> lukaswayne9: umm it should have an orig.tar.gz file and a diff.gz file, its packaged like it was native but its not
<imbrandon> ok really off to sleep now, bbiab
<lukaswayne9> what do you mean?
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<minghua> lukaswayne9: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-mistakes.html
<minghua> lukaswayne9: read the first paragraph in "Changing the Original Tarball"
<minghua> that explains what "native" means
<lukaswayne9> oops, sorry about that
<lukaswayne9> i renamed my tarbell wrong
<lukaswayne9> I reuploaded
<lukaswayne9> the link will be http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3214
<lukaswayne9> if someone could check that out, it would be great!
<rmjb> minghua: http://www.student.uit.no/~pere/linux/glibc/howto.html
<zakame> yo bddebian
<zakame> hmm anyway we can fix the flashplugin thing?   or is it fixed already on a new upload?
<crimsun> err, what?
<crimsun> I fixed flashplugin-nonfree (twice) yesterday.
<lukaswayne9> Alright, my upload is in the revu.  If someone could check it out that would be great! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3214   Thanks again
<zakame> bug 61404
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61404 in dapper-backports "Flashplugin-nonfree in backports fails to install" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61404
<zakame> oh, there it goes
* zakame just read his backmail
<zakame> I'm having more than my usual share :(
<crimsun> I am extremely displeased that that bug was filed against a backported package.
<zakame> awww
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, ping.
<LaserJock> yah
<minghua> lukaswayne9: gfceu has been in Ubuntu before, but your debian/changelog doesn't show that
<Fujitsu> I've got python-numpy, python-scipy and matplotlib ready to go... They all build OK.
<bddebian> w00t go Fujitsu :-)
<Fujitsu> :)
<Fujitsu> I'm just going to pbuild them all one more time...
<zakame> go go Fujitsu
<crimsun> I am dead serious. If we get another one of these knee-jerk backports, I am going to be even less forgiving.
<zakame> crimsun: well it (backports) ought to be stricter :/
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<zakame> cya l8r bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> what happened? flashplugin-nonfree was backported but it's buggy?
<Toadstool> 'evening everybody
<zakame> eveing Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey zakame
<zakame> LaserJock: yeah, used a newr(?) version of update-rc.d
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, I heard it's because the backport approver took his edgy chroot as his dapper one
<LaserJock> I see
<imbrandon> me gets out of bed for this one .... LaserJock  and i bet you can guess whom =the backporter was
<zakame> no need for {b,f}lames, screw ups happen when you least expect it
<zakame> the best one can do is to prevent it from happening again
<zakame> that way we grow :)
<imbrandon> zakame: true LaserJock / crimsun: you have a little time tomarrow to chat about some things, i think we need to relook at how backpoorts are file/approved serouisly , especialy with non-MOTU's trying to do it
<imbrandon> s/true/true \n/g
<zakame> imbrandon: huh? non-MOTUs can upload stuff directly now? or am I mistaken?
<imbrandon> anyhow i'll try to catchup with you both tomarrow, i'm off to bed
<Toadstool> zakame: hmm? nope
<imbrandon> zakame: no but backport approvals dont require uploads
<zakame> Toadstool: ah, well
<zakame> imbrandon: I see
<Toadstool> time to grab some food... /me dives into the fridge
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> I'm sort of suprised at how many dups that has
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, as am I.
<Fujitsu> I think it at least needs approval from one MOTU before it should be backported...
<LaserJock> it has to be approved by the backports team
<LaserJock> I believe
<zakame> yeah so many dupes
<LaserJock> crimsun: what's up with the ~ubuntuX versioning on flashplugin-nonfree?
<zakame> can't LP say allow bug submission previews, then searches the databse for seemingly similar bugs?
<LaserJock> zakame: "they're working on it" TM
<Plug> one day I swear I'll set my nick highlighting up to not match 'plugin'
<LaserJock> Plug: haha
<zakame> LaserJock: lol
<LaserJock> anyway, it does backports do require approval
<LaserJock> wow, that' was a messed up sentence
<Toadstool> :D
<LaserJock> s/it does//
<minghua> poor Plug :-)
* Fujitsu waits for matplotlib to build...
<Fujitsu> It takes /ages/...
<Plug> Is it acceptable to dpatch configure.in, and run autoconf in the config.status section of debian/rules?
<Laser_away> Fujitsu: I'll check in with you tomorrow about matplotlib/scipy/numpy
<Fujitsu> OK, bye.
<Laser_away> Fujitsu: if everything builds good go ahead and file the sync requests for the syncs
<Fujitsu> Laser_away, there aren't any.
<Laser_away> darn
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Laser_away> well, I suppose uploading a merge can be faster then waiting for ubuntu-archive
<Laser_away> ok, well I'll take care of it tomorrow if you don't sucker somebody into it before then
<Fujitsu> OK, see you.
<Laser_away> Fujitsu: thanks a ton for all that work
<Fujitsu> No problem :)
<Laser_away> night
<Fujitsu> It just took a while to get them all building with Python 2.5, there wasn't much in it.
<Fujitsu> Packages shouldn't regenerate their debian/copyright on each build, should they!?
<minghua> if from something like debian/copyright.in, maybe it's okay?
<Fujitsu> Well, matplotlib runs debian/mkcopyright.sh every build, for apparently no reason.
<Fujitsu> There's also the fact that is has bashisms which result in crap being put into it.
<hub> I have never seen any package regenerating copyright
<hub> that's weird
<Fujitsu> hub, it is.
<Fujitsu> I've made the script dash-compatible now
<Fujitsu> Or should I do away with it completely?
<hub> no idea
<Fujitsu> It modifies the Debianisation date/time each build as well, which is just plain wrong.
<hub> I don't know why it does it
<Fujitsu> I'll mail the maintainer, I suppose.
<hub> yep
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Morning.
<BlueT_> buongior :)
<Kagou> hi
<crimsun> Laser_away: at the time I uploaded, 7.0.68* didn't exist in Sid
<Fujitsu> There's a new version of gnomebaker (0.6.0), and a bug requesting it. Includes gstreamer0.10 support, among other bug fixes... Should I update the package?
<crimsun> yes.
<crimsun> removing gst0.8 {build-,}dependencies -> good
<Fujitsu> Yes, I thought so.
<Fujitsu> And I had just confirmed there were no outstanding Ubuntu changes, so it'll be easier than mangling Debian and Ubuntu and upstream changes together :)
<Fujitsu> Yay, only .po conflicts.
<Fujitsu> What are gstreamer0.8-mad and -flac replaced by? One of the gstreamer0.10-plugins-*?
<minghua> Fujitsu: -bad?
<minghua> Hmm, probably -ugly
<Fujitsu> I think mad would be in ugly, and flac in good?
<minghua> Fujitsu: seems you are right, at least according to gstreamer docs: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-good-plugins/html/
<minghua> and http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-ugly-plugins/html/
<Fujitsu> This new one eliminates most of the Debian patches :)
<iapx8088> hi hi all
<iapx8088> I was wondering, is there a way to edit manpages? my package has a lintian warning about a line not terminating with .
<Fujitsu> Hi.
<Fujitsu> What!? This can't be right. My package works :)
<minghua> iapx8088: depends on how your man page is made
<minghua> iapx8088: generally speaking, manpage is just a text file
<iapx8088> yes, mine too, but it's a sort of macro language to
<iapx8088> sort of .if \n+(b.=1 .nr d. \n(.c-\n(c.-1
<iapx8088> (which should be the incriminated line.
<iapx8088> minghua, can you recognize the type?
<minghua> iapx8088: (I think) the language is called groff, but I know nothing about it
<iapx8088> thank you
<minghua> iapx8088: sorry, no idea at all
<iapx8088> np, good starting point.
<iapx8088> minghua, I believe is groff, thanks.
<minghua> iapx8088: you are welcome
<\sh> moins
<\sh> looks like that I missed a change in requesting syncs...
<Fujitsu> \sh, you certainly did :(
<\sh> Fujitsu: well yes, describing why the change "merged from debian" is obsolete will be difficult ;)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Fujitsu> Which request in particular?
<\sh> all my last sync requests ;)
<Fujitsu> \sh, aha.
<\sh> because I didn't know that we have to explain why we can drop ubuntu changes
<Fujitsu> There's a post on -devel-announce in August about it.
<\sh> anyways...will update the bug reports tomorrow during the day...when I have the time
<\sh> i just checked the updated developerresources wiki page...
<xerxas_> Hi !
<iapx8088> do you know any groff related irc sources?
<iapx8088> bye
<Q-FUNK> 'morning
<Q-FUNK> anybody available to sponsor Bug #61626 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61626 in cups-pdf "Please sync cups-pdf (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61626
<Q-FUNK> or is synchronisation only taken care of by ftp masters?
<Fujitsu> You need to get it approved by a MOTU (if it isn't already), and an archive admin will get around to syncing it.
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> what's needed to get it approved?
<Fujitsu> Subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors to it, which has already been done.
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> I'd just like to avoid yet more people reporting the exact same issue under a different bug number.
<lukaswayne9> I've released  a maintainence release to my simple package, gfceu.  If someone could upload it, that would be great.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3214
<minghua> lukaswayne9: did you see my comments about your debian/changelog?  It is missing all the previous entries
<Fujitsu> I've updated gnomebaker to 0.6.0... Do I just ask somebody to upload it for me?
<Hobbsee> !info gnomebaker edgy
<ubotu> gnomebaker: application for CD/DVD creation in the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.1-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 862 kB, installed size 2640 kB
<Fujitsu> It's based off Debian 0.5.1-6, I noticed a bug requesting the upgrade when I was about to file a sync request. crimsun said I should package the new one instead.
<lukaswayne9> !info gfceu edgy
<ubotu> gfceu: Graphical front-end using GTK2 for the FCE Ultra NES emulator. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.0-0ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 29 kB, installed size 152 kB
<Q-FUNK> lovely bots
<AnAnt> ping dholbach
<jrib> I want to package http://wallpapoz.akbarhome.com/index.html but it's a python script to edit a config file and daemon written in python.  Are there any good example packages with a daemon written in python that I can take a look at?
<fbond> jrib, the package should put a wrapper in /usr/bin ... if so, you can use as an example any package that runs a deamon in /usr/bin
<pianoboy3333> I need help, it appears I have two keys when I do gpg --list-keys but how do I tell which I've been signing packages with?
<jrib> fbond: thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> I've got a new upstream version of gnomebaker packaged, removes dependencies on gstreamer 0.8 and the like, do I just get a MOTU to upload it?
<zul> isnt it gnomebaker in main?
<Fujitsu> No.
<fbond> it really probably should be, last time I checked... nautilus is a fairly disfunctional way to burn CDs, IMO
<Nafallo> WFM, except it's broken :-P
<dholbach> zakame: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
<xerxas> dholbach:  ?
<dholbach> xerxas: hm?
<xerxas> did you create the pymsn branch ?
<xerxas> or I did it ?
<dholbach> no idea
<xerxas> cannot manage to create the branch for butterfly
<dholbach> you have to create the product first
<xerxas> yes
<xerxas> but I can't manage to
<xerxas> lemme retry
<xerxas> https://launchpad.net/products/telepathy-butterfly is this correct ?
<xerxas> https://launchpad.net/people/telepathy/+branch/telepathy-butterfly/ubuntu
<xerxas> cool
<xerxas> works !
<xopher> What is telepathy really?
<chantra> hi, when I package a soft, there is two files which are included in it, but I would like to get rid of them, how could I do?
<chantra> like, I got /usr/lib/gaim/gaim-libnotify.la and /usr/lib/gaim/gaim-libnotify.a included, but I do not need them, how could I tell dpkg to not include them?
<geser> rm them from debian/tmp
<AnAnt> bddebian: hide
<chantra> geser: in which section should I do that?
<AnAnt> ping bddebian
<geser> chantra: see for an example http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gaim-encryption/gaim-encryption_2.38-3.1.diff.gz ; the install target
<AnAnt> ping dholbach
<dholbach> AnAnt: pong
<blueyed> Does anyone know who/what updates the Contents-ARCH.gz files on archive.ubuntu.com? This seems to be the reason, why apt-file cannot find "python-central"..
<blueyed> They are from 07 Jun..
<bddebian> AnAnt: Yeah, sorry I will try to review freedict :-)
<chantra> geser: cheers, I wasn't too far as I was usng dh_clean instead of rm :)
<chantra> cheers geser
<AnAnt__> ping bddebian
<bddebian> Don't ping me then leave :-)
<pygi> hey bddebian
<bddebian> pygi: Heya
<Nafallo> haha
<xerxas> can some review http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/telepathy-butterfly/ubuntu/ please ?
<xerxas> oops
<xerxas> not yet
<xerxas> need to correct sth
<AnAnt> ping bddebian
<bddebian> AnAnt: Yes..
<AnAnt> bddebian: there you are
<AnAnt> bddebian: could you please REVU freedict , you told me to change the version number
<bddebian> AnAnt: Did you not see my response earlier?  I'll check it out
<AnAnt> bddebian: what response ?
<bddebian> <bddebian> AnAnt: Yeah, sorry I will try to review freedict :-)
<AnAnt> bddebian: ok, how about tss too, it's a new upload
<bddebian> I will try.  Super busy at work lately :-(
<AnAnt> bddebian: k, thanks
<AnAnt> gotta go
<Xnix> anyone know what version of ACPI_DSDT patch is included in latest git of ubuntu kernel?
* Kyral wonders why he still hangs out here
<dholbach> good night everybody - have a great WE!
<pianoboy3333> I need some gpg help! It appears I have two keys: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24400 how do I know which I've been signing packages, only one should have the password I've been using
<geser> check the signatures you made
<pianoboy3333> geser: how can I do that?
<pianoboy3333> geser: I made both!
<geser> gpg --verify signed_file (probable a .changes or .dsc file)
<pianoboy3333> ok
<pianoboy3333> thank you
<Q-FUNK> re
<AnAnt> ping lionelp
<bluefoxicy> wow
<bluefoxicy> son of the black eye is old and dead?
* tseng points bluefoxicy to -offtopic
<Nafallo> tseng: do we have such a thing? :-O
<tseng> I don't really care to be honest
<Nafallo> in that case, why wasn't it named #sounder :-P
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<Q-FUNK> we do, actually
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  it just dropped out of universe o.o
<tseng> $ apt-cache search black eye | wc -l
<tseng> 0
<bluefoxicy> it's a battle for wesnoth campaign o.o; wesnoth-sotb something.  I forget now, I wasn't paying much attention to what I was doing with synaptic.
<tseng> right..
<minghua> bluefoxicy: yes, son of the black eye is dropped on version 1.1.2
<bluefoxicy> Upstream isn't carrying it anymore then, hrm.  Ah well.
<Kyral> ugh SVN is a PAIN!
* bluefoxicy is currently more interested in Invasion:  Battle of Survival, but v2.0 won't be out for a couple weeks
<bluefoxicy> they say beta is due out this week or early next, rc in a couple weeks.  Edgy passed version freeze like a month ago didn't it
<Kyral> How the heck do I commit
<bluefoxicy> svn ci
<bluefoxicy> Kyral:  when you check something out, svn remembers like everything about it
<bluefoxicy> I haven't figured out where it's storing the info, but it's got my sourceforge.net username and password memorized and the repository o.o;
<Kyral> yah...stupid me used Anon access first...
<bluefoxicy> ah, then when you ci it should ask for a user/password
<minghua> the username is stored in .svn/
<bluefoxicy> yes but it's letting me write without a password
<minghua> no idea where the password is stored though (my svn doesn't remember password for me)
<bluefoxicy> .svn doesn't have my password at all and there's no ~/.svn*  o_o  it freaks the hell out of me.
<Kyral> yea it works :D
<Kyral> http://rubyforge.org/projects/therush/
* Kyral feels giddy with his first registered project on RubyForge
<Q-FUNK> grmbl.  having similar tools for debian and ubuntu gets confusing.
<Q-FUNK> such as being sued to issue tag changes to the _debian_ bts using 'bts', issuing the same command on tis laptop running ubuntu and wondering why the debian bts doesn't receive it.
<Q-FUNK> s/used/r/used
<Q-FUNK> argh
<Q-FUNK> typos r us
<Biru`biru`> hi all
<Kyral> Jeez I'm on a roll today
<Kyral> First I open a RubyForge project, and I just submitted a small service menu to KDE-Apps
<Kyral> ..I should prolly bounce Hobbsee when she comes around
<geser> does anybody know which package contains linux/compiler.h?
<LaserJock> geser: try packages.ubuntu.com
<Adri2000> geser: linux-headers (apt-file is your friend ;))
<Biru`biru`> geser, I believe the kernel
<geser> can a package depend on linux-headers to build?
<Biru`biru`> I believe
<Adri2000> i believe too
<iapx8088> apt-fiel update; apt-file search  linux/compiler.h
<geser> isn't linux-headers for modules only? and linux-libc-dev (former linux-kernel-headers) for normal programs?
<crimsun> yes
<geser> then I assume linux/compiler.h is missing in linux-libc-dev as it was included in linux-kernel-headers
<geser> according to goole linux/compiler.h doesn't belong to the exported kernel headers
<crimsun> jdong_: have we discussed any changes to the backport policy?
<geser> is the unapproved queue for dapper-updates somewhere visible?
<LaserJock> hmm
<minghua> isn't there a dapper-proposed queue now?
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue
<geser> crimsun: do you know what happened with the upload of php4-yaz targeting dapper-updates?
<geser> looking at the mentioned url I can't find a trace of it
<crimsun> geser: I have no idea; I don't have access to the innards. Try pinging kamion, keybuk, or infinity.
<iapx8088> ole'
<iapx8088> have a nice night guys
<crimsun> night~'
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok, so on those flashplugin uploads
<LaserJock> why didn't you do a 0ubuntuX?
<LaserJock> just curious
<crimsun> LaserJock: with a native package? That would have been silly.
* Q-FUNK is having a module-assistant orgy
<crimsun> 7.0.68ubuntu1 >> 7.0.68
<crimsun> 7.0.68.0ubuntu1 >> 7.0.68
<LaserJock> crimsun: oh that's right, I forgot it's native
<crimsun> trust me, there's a method to my madness...
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> I just wanted a peeking to genius ;-)
<crimsun> pfft
<crimsun> go talk to bddebian for genius
<LaserJock> s/peeking to/peek into/
<LaserJock> heh
* LaserJock feels like he needs to start working on the Edgy+1 packaging guide now, just to get it done in 6 months :/
<bddebian> crimsun: Please stop mocking me :-(
<crimsun> I'm not mocking you any more than you've already misshipped my poor pony.
<LaserJock> :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: we have a different packaging guide for each release?
<LaserJock> minghua: a little, more like asymtoptic itterations towards perfection, I hope ;-)
<AnAnt_> bddebian: thanks
<AnAnt_> guys, if I want a package to be for 64-bit only architectures, how do I set that ?
<LaserJock> they keep changing things on me too
<LaserJock> I'm trying to make it as generic as possible while still being remotely useful
<minghua> AnAnt_: the arch: section in debian/control specify architectures
<minghua> LaserJock: did you get much feedback on that doc
<LaserJock> oh some
<LaserJock> I have a lot of ideas to make it better
<AnAnt_> minghua: ok, what are 64 bit archs ? ia64 & amd64 , right ? is there anything else ?
<LaserJock> but much less time to implement them
<LaserJock> I'm also supposed to be in charge of the Ubuntu Developer's Reference
<minghua> LaserJock: I looked at the hello packaging part, it's quite nice, I hope we point more people there
<minghua> wow, developer's reference sounds very serious to me :-)
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> very scary in fact
<AnAnt_> does Edgy have a command called linux32 ?
<minghua> AnAnt_: Hmm, sorry I can't answer that
<LaserJock> iwj started it
<LaserJock> but handed it off to me
<LaserJock> I think I'm going to need to put a massive "call for contribution/help/suggestions" for edgy+1
<LaserJock> I just can't do it by myself
<AnAnt_> it does, cool
* Nafallo dputs mplayer ;-)
<LaserJock> \o/
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: can I ask u for a REVU ?
<LaserJock> I can try
<LaserJock> AnAnt_: what's the url
<AnAnt_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3221
<AnAnt_> is: "sh -c" bashism ?
<crimsun> not at all.
<AnAnt_> cool
<AnAnt_> how about: cd objs32 && ./configure && $(MAKE) npviewer.bin
<minghua> looks good to me
<AnAnt_> k
<AnAnt_> I'm packaging nspluginwrapper
<AnAnt_> but I don't have a 64-bit machine !
<minghua> (but I am not POSIX expert)
<minghua> the easy way to test, I suppose, is setting your /bin/sh to dash, and run those commands yourself
<AnAnt_> anyone got a 64-bit machine ?
<geser> yes, amd64
<LaserJock> AnAnt_: is "Acon is Copyright 1999-2000, Ahmed Abdel-Hamid Mohamed." a typo?
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: that's wierd, I removed that !
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: maybe the upload didn't appear yet ?
<AnAnt_> I uploaded few mins ago
<LaserJock> and this might seem a little picky, but the copyright/license of the artwork isn't really clear
<AnAnt_> actually I uploaded 20 mins ago
<LaserJock> he gives credits for *some* of the artwork, but he doesn't say if they are Public Domain or anything
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: how can I know about it ?
<AnAnt_> ping him ?!
<LaserJock> well, I don't know if it's a big deal or not
<LaserJock> you might have somebody else look at that
<AnAnt_> ok
<AnAnt_> geser: can you help me test a package ?
<LaserJock> preferably somebody who knows what they are talking about ;-)
<geser> AnAnt_: which one?
<AnAnt_> geser: nspluginwrapper
<geser> url?
<AnAnt_> I'll upload it shortly
<AnAnt_> what does that lintian warning mean "native-package-with-dash-version" ?
<crimsun> native source packages don't have revisions delimited by hyphens
<crimsun> (or at least shouldn't)
<geser> you probably got the name of the orig.tar.gz wrong
<AnAnt_> ok, found the problem, thanks
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: the copyright file is correct in the diff btw
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: as for the artwork, I dunno really
<minghua> AnAnt_: BTW you debian/copyright is missing part of the copyright specified in README
<AnAnt_> geser: ok, I uploaded it, please tell me if it builds
<minghua> AnAnt_: and you got the author's email wrong
<AnAnt_> minghua: huh ?
<AnAnt_> minghua: in tss ?
<minghua> yes
<minghua> and I am talking about upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3224
<AnAnt_> minghua: what's missing from README ?
<minghua> Locking and shadow password retrieval code based on vlock 1.3
<minghua> Copyright (C) 1994 Michael K. Johnson and Marek
<AnAnt_> oh, alright
<AnAnt_> I checked the email, I see it is correct
<minghua> oh? kristappleian dot peachgunstone at pean dot org (remove fruits)
<AnAnt_> minghua: that Locking & shadow lines, should I put it at the end ?
<AnAnt_> minghua: btw, do you think that I'd better make tss Replace vlock ?
<AnAnt_> or is it unnecessary ?
<minghua> AnAnt_: why?  does tss and vlock contain files with the same name?
<LaserJock> I also find it a little odd that the artwork is installed to /etc
<AnAnt_> geser: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3227
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: where then ?
<LaserJock> wouldn't /usr/share/tss/ be a better place?
<AnAnt_> minghua: nope
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: tss complains if it doesn't find /etc/tss or ~/.tss
<minghua> AnAnt_: then you shouldn't use Replace
<LaserJock> then patch it ;-)
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: good idea
<LaserJock> I dont' know, what do the other, more intelligent, MOTUs think?
<AnAnt_> LaserJock: actually I do agree that the artwork fit in share not etc
<minghua> AnAnt_: as for the author email, note his "remove fruits" comment
<AnAnt_> minghua: yes, what does it mean ? I thought he meant to replace dot with . & at with @
<minghua> LaserJock: they are ascii arts, right?  then I agree with you on /usr/share/tss/
<AnAnt_> ohhhhhhh
<Nafallo> AnAnt_: have you ever eaten dot and at? :-)
<AnAnt_> minghua: thanks, I didn't understand what he meant
<AnAnt_> Nafallo: well, some ppl use wierd comments sometimes
<AnAnt_> Nafallo: I didn't concentrate that his email actually contained fruit names
<Nafallo> not _that_ weird :-)
<AnAnt_> hehe
<minghua> there you go :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: yes, it is ASCII art
<Fujitsu> It really cannot go into /etc, then.
<LaserJock> well, it's certainly not a config file
<minghua> Yeah, I would say putting them in /etc is against policy
<geser> AnAnt_: the build failed -> http://pastebin.ca/180141
<minghua> but maybe those ASCII arts are not distributable at all due to copyright/license issue
<Fujitsu> Unless it somehow magically stores its configuration in ASCII art, they're /usr/share/[package]  material.
<minghua> I especially don't like the "I have removed authoring information on some ascii art to make it look better in tss." part
<LaserJock> mm
<LaserJock> that's what my question was
<LaserJock> he doesn't even have credits for all of them
<LaserJock> let alone any information that says he/or us has the right to redistribute them
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-23
<AnAnt_> geser: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../lib64/crt1.o: could not read symbols: Bad value <= what does that mean ?
<geser> look at line 31
<AnAnt_> geser: do you have /lib64 in your system ?
<geser> yes
<AnAnt_> k, so I need to do that -fPIC thing ?
<Fujitsu> What info do I need to put in a bug requesting syncing a package that isn't in Ubuntu yet? Just name, version, Debian component and the fact that it's new?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> same sync policy
<Fujitsu> I presume I don't have to throw in changelog entries or anything...
<AnAnt_> is -fPIC a compile or link option ?
<crimsun> former
<crimsun> why not?
<crimsun> ^^ Fujitsu
<minghua> Wow, this tss uses a GPL boilerplate with FSF address "675 Mass Ave, Cambridge"
<minghua> isn't that like two versions old?
<crimsun> that's impressively outdated
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Because there's no changes that have to be checked, because there's no previous version?
<Fujitsu> Wow! That's really old.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: so you'll have to use the default, which means list them all
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> Shall do.
<minghua> AnAnt_: How to write a good debian/copyright file: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html
<Adri2000> i don't really understand how the queue works, seems that not all packages go through the queue ?
<crimsun> "the" queue? there are multiple queues
<Adri2000> this one : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<crimsun> about what are you unclear?
<Adri2000> i see a lot of new packages coming in edgy in the rss feed (i think it's the same that edgy changes mailing list), and i don't see this packages in this queue
<crimsun> a new source package goes into the NEW queue. After it's accepted, it's built after the next publisher run. The binaries end up in the binary NEW queue. After those are accepted, they're synced to mirrors on the next publisher run.
<AnAnt_> minghua: thanks
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue < it should be the first queue ? why are there sources and packages ?
<crimsun> say you upload a new source package named foobarcrack that generates one binary package, libfoobarcrack0. It goes through the precise process I just described. Now let's say you have a new upstream version that bumps the soname to 1, so you uupdate, adjust the packaging, and upload.
<AnAnt_> crimsun: after the source package is accepted & while it's binaries are in the queue, does the source package go to the repos ?
<AnAnt_> what is uupdate?
<crimsun> Because the source package already exists, it doesn't need to go through the source NEW queue again. Instead, the new binary package, libfoobarcrack1, ends up in the binary NEW queue after it's built. libfoobarcrack1 needs to be ACCEPTed, then it will be published and synced to mirrors.
<crimsun> AnAnt_: see uupdate(1)
<crimsun> AnAnt_: yes, the source has already been ACCEPTed, published, and perhaps synced
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: thanks for the ack on upgrade-system
<crimsun> np
<Q-FUNK> bug #61626
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61626 in cups-pdf "Please sync cups-pdf (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61626
<Q-FUNK> this is the one thta would make a lot more people happier, though ;)
<Q-FUNK> hm.  doesn't it get added to the sync queue once a motu acknowledges it?
<Adri2000> crimsun: so only new packages (not updates) appear in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue ?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, which sync queue?
<LaserJock> Adri2000: right
<geser> crimsun: do you know why bug 57632 didn't get picked up by universe sponsors?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57632 in coolmail "Coolmail segfaults" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57632
<AnAnt_> crimsun: acon source is not there
<crimsun> $ apt-cache madison acon
<crimsun>       acon | 1.0.5-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
<Adri2000> ok LaserJock
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: Notice that ubuntu-archive is automatically subscribed using Martin Pitt's sync request script. No point in telling me not to subscribe them.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: I'll speak to Martin about that, then.
<AnAnt_> crimsun: ?
<AnAnt_> crimsun: I just searched the packages.ubuntu.com site
<crimsun> Adri2000: source updates that generate new binary packages still end up in the binary NEW queue just as I described above.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: and the bug is auto-confirmed using that same script too.
<crimsun> AnAnt_: packages.uc does not sync every hour.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: again, I'll speak to Martin about that
<Adri2000> crimsun: some updates are just binaries ?
<crimsun> Adri2000: what are "some updates"?
<Fujitsu> Are you sure that pitti means that script to be used by non-MOTUs? That's doing very MOTUish stuff.
<AnAnt_> k
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: very nice script, but as evidenced by your response, should probably have the commands it sends to malone revised according to what the concensus is.
<crimsun> geser: most likely because its subject line falls through my spam filter
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: IIRC I found it via link of apge describing the steps how to ask for a sync
<Adri2000> crimsun: i really do not understand :p all new packages and all updates must be built, ok ? the uploader uploads only the source ?
<Q-FUNK> argh.  ...of a wiki page
<crimsun> Adri2000: correct, we do only source uploads.
<Adri2000> some packages in the queue are binaries ... :/
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: it had a bit that went like "do the following steps manually or use pitti's nice script at [link] "
<AnAnt_> geser: ok, I found that linux32 exists for i386, so I'll compile here first
<crimsun> Adri2000: because the source packages generate /new/ binary packages
<crimsun> naming-wise
<Adri2000> hmmm, it's the same queue for package 1) (source) waiting to be built 2) (binary) waiting to be uploaded
<Adri2000> ?
<Fujitsu> Yes, NEW.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: though honnestly I find the approach of asking a motu to ask a dev to ask ftp master to do a sync to feature a needlessly huge number of steps.
<Adri2000> then i understand :)
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: a MOTU /is/ a member of ubuntu-dev.
<Q-FUNK> ok
<crimsun> random joe should not be able to get an approved sync. A Debian developer is not a random joe, OTOH.
<Q-FUNK> so why do I still get a feeling that getting a sync approved still goes thru one too many steps?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, it doesn't.
<Q-FUNK> there you go.  I maintain the packages on which I request a sync.  it shouldn't have to be so difficult.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: how would we remove steps?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I'm wondering the same. It's minimal as it is.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: you're also not a member of ubuntu-dev.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: well, but that's a bit different, tbh
<Q-FUNK> by dirrectly allowing the maintainer at debian to request a sync if he notices his packages drifting away at ubuntu, maybe?
<crimsun> then become a member of ubuntu-dev.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, want to look at python-{scipy,numpy}/matplotlib? I've had to remove a bashism in matplotlib's debian/copyright generator script, but otherwise the diffs are pretty small.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: you're missing the point.
<crimsun> just because it's your package doesn't automatically give you rights to push into someone else's repo.
<Adri2000> i have a package waiting since the 18th to be built. is it just that no archive admin had time to accept it yet, or may there be a problem ?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: sure, give me a url of the debdiffs
<LaserJock> Adri2000: time
<LaserJock> sometimes we wait for a couple weeks
<LaserJock> it just depends on how much time people have
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: I'm gonna be blunt about this one:  you're rude and completely in the woods.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: it was not my decision, I simply abide by it.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: dude the same thing goes the other way
<LaserJock> I maintain a package in Ubuntu but I still have to go through a sponsor in Debian
<LaserJock> no different
<LaserJock> I'm an ubuntu-dev and not a DD so I have to play by Debian's rules
<LaserJock> and that's the way it *should* be
<Q-FUNK> oh but there IS a key difference:  Debian is essentially Ubuntu's upstream.
<crimsun> let's say I work for Red Hat and make a package. Debian (and Ubuntu) pull in the source package. Do I automatically have the right to request a sync for /my/ maintained package?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: a couple weeks ? :/ only 5 days remaining before the universe freeze :/
<crimsun> If I wish to have my maintained package synced, I need to abide by Debian's policies.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: that's doesn't matter really, would you allow your upstream to ask for a new upstream release directly?
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: let's just say that if you bother merging a fix that specifically benefits debian and ubuntu, it would be a good idea for debian and ubuntu to sync.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: I'm not at all discussing whether syncing is good. I'm saying there's policy in place, and it holds /regardless/ what direction originated the work.
<Fujitsu> Then upstream can request it, but it will still have to go through the proper channels.
<crimsun> I may be rude, yes, but that's the way it works in Debian, and it's the way it works in Ubuntu.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: see the code of conduct and call us back in the morning.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/scipy_etc
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: what? he didn't say anything that was against the CoC
<crimsun> If anyone else believes I've overstepped my bounds as a member, please do speak up.
<Fujitsu> Nope, you're fine, crimsun.
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: he was rude. that's clearly agaisnt the CoC.
<LaserJock> he was not rude
<LaserJock> he just simply stated that being the debian maintainer doesn't give you the right to push stuff in Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, was he? I didn't see that anywhere.
<LaserJock> and that is 100% correct regarding policy
<LaserJock> you are not an ubuntu-dev or ubuntu-core-dev
<Q-FUNK> exactly how am I pushing anything?  I'm not ftp master anywhere, am I?
<LaserJock> ok, so s/pushing/upload or aprrove upload/
<crimsun> (I believe the correct semantics are "following policy.")
<LaserJock> so I really fail to see rudeness there and certainly not a violation of the CoC
<Q-FUNK> it would be a lot simpler to simply disable some launchpad functions for people who are not ubuntu-dev.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, like!?
<LaserJock> they are
<LaserJock> some things
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure what you are getting at though
<LaserJock> you can request a sync
<Q-FUNK> apparently not.  crimsun was complaining about me setting certain flags that, for some reasons, were accessible to me.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: well, that is a bit hard
<Q-FUNK> such as subscribing some teams that, for some reasons, shouldn't have been.
<LaserJock> as the flags can be used for other things
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, it's not sane to disable confirming of bugs.
<crimsun> I wasn't complaining at all. I simply asked you not to subscribe u-a first, which is not at all your fault.
<crimsun> Again, I've reiterated the point that I'll speak with Martin concerning it.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: might help to avoid using imperative forms in your comments then.
<crimsun> I fail to see how that's actually relevant.
<Q-FUNK> anyhow, I'm not interested in draging this on forever.
<crimsun> Nor am I.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> thanks for the concern Q-FUNK with your package
<Q-FUNK> my only point is this:  some maintainers at debian will gladly merge patches to help thin out the delta. I'm one of them. it would help if there were simple steps they could follow to keep track.
<LaserJock> sorry the script led you to something we'd like to avoid
<LaserJock> hopefully we'll get that fixed
<crimsun> I certainly believe sync policies could be amended to allow Debian maintainers some greater leeway.
<LaserJock> mhm
<Fujitsu> Oh no. Another OOo upload.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: keep track of what? the whole syncing proccess?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: that one has been there for a while, or are my mailserver not keeping up? :-)
<Toadstool> Q-FUNK: and that's why lucas tried to launch an Ubuntu "Debian Collaboration Team" but he and I didn't have time to really work on that so far :/
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, about 3 hours ago.
<Q-FUNK> personally, the only thing I would need to have more painless interaction is to be enpowered to directly request the sync and confirm that I can build in a $release chroot.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: old one then ;-). already on half of the buildds :-P
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: I concur.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: yep, sounds pretty reasonable
<Q-FUNK> I already am on launchpad and I keep track of useful fixes.  I tend to merge them back rather quickly, as long as I don't notice any break in Debian.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: I believe the most efficient manner for the sync process to be adjusted for Edgy+1 is to raise the issue on the ubuntu-devel mailing list, which may necessitate bringing it before the Technical Board.
<Q-FUNK> the script already does what I need (although, as I understand, the commands it passes to Malone should not be in a non- ubuntu-dev's hands).
<Fujitsu> It is TB material, yes.
<Toadstool> Q-FUNK: do you think something like what's described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT would help?
<LaserJock> I think some of the problem too, is that there aren't that many DDs that are doing that. We simple haven't come across those issues
<LaserJock> much
<LaserJock> our normal process is to have lots of non-devs working away on merges and syncs and having a good approval process is important
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: TBH, a lot of DDs would glady help if e.g. pitti's script could be modified in a bullet-proof way.
<Q-FUNK> then, the only other stape woud be to have a user on launchpad to interact with users.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, a lot of DDs hate Ubuntu, though.
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> not a lot
<LaserJock> some
<Q-FUNK> some
<Q-FUNK> an outragous minority, I would say
<crimsun> bug 61949 needs another MOTU advocate (ACK the sync request).
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61949 in Ubuntu "Please sync treeviewx 0.5.1-1 from Debian Sid (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61949
<LaserJock> ah, I got that one
<Q-FUNK> Toadstool: yes
<Fujitsu> It needs two?
<Q-FUNK> Toadstool: it's a very good start
<crimsun> Fujitsu: (same policy as with REVU and new packages)
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: most DDs and Debian users I know tend to do like me and hand out Ubuntu CDs to everyone they know.
<Nafallo> Q-FUNK: rock on! :-)
<Fujitsu> :)
<Nafallo> baah. I've seen to much of jdub lately ;-)
* Nafallo goes to hide/give support again :-)
<Q-FUNK> but basically, if all a DD needs to help is to:
<Q-FUNK>  1) sign on to launchpad to be able to comment bugs.
<Q-FUNK> 2) have a handy script to request a sync and a clear checklist of items to confirm in that sync request.
<Q-FUNK> then I think that we can make the delat between most packages disappear in no time.
<Q-FUNK> delta
<Q-FUNK> typos r us
<Fujitsu> Yes, that'd be really great.
<crimsun> That's quite probable, and I'd like to make that a reality.
<LaserJock> me too
<crimsun> I also encourage you to do sustained Ubuntu work so you can upload directly to the Ubuntu repository.
<Q-FUNK> here, I'm just amazed at how long it's taking to get what was a trivial fix on a package to finally get in.
<crimsun> yes, it is quite shameful
<crimsun> Just look at the backlog on REVU for a better idea
<Q-FUNK> sure.  I'd love to do that.  mind you, I'm mostly focusing on advocacy and promotion.
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu could really use more (active) MOTUs :(
<crimsun> any and all help are welcome.
<LaserJock> well, when you consider how many active MOTUs there are ...
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, count on two hands?
<LaserJock> yep
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: is it that bad?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, I believe so. I'm not a MOTU, though.
<Fujitsu> So I'm not helping that statistic.
<LaserJock> I'd say there are about 5 MOTUs that do most of the work
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<Q-FUNK> what obstacles do you see that currently prevent more people from joining and from participating?
<Fujitsu> That's 3000 packages each :P
<crimsun> You just named one. There're also resource constraints.
* Nafallo counts atleast 6 ;-)
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: more or less, getting people to commit to it and getting them to where they have the technical ability
<LaserJock> I've hardly touched packaging for edgy
<LaserJock> simply have too many things to do
<Q-FUNK> what would be a good way to get e.g. people frustrated by Debian's NM process and yet who already have a few good packages at Debian to prove their worth to join in?
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: fixing bugs, doing merges and syncs
<LaserJock> part of it right now is the fast release cycle and time commitment
<Q-FUNK> erm... you read that backwards.  or well, maybe I write to long sentnces.  lemme rephrase:
<LaserJock> if I just had to maintain 5-10 packages as I do in Debian
<LaserJock> it wouldn't be a big problem
<LaserJock> but I'm trying to keep track of 400+ packages
<Q-FUNK> what would be a good way to get people, who proved their worth at debian with good packages and good maintenance habits, to have a painless motu membership?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes, there aren't many science MOTUs, unfortunately.
<LaserJock> pretty much what I said + showing up here and proving you're a part of the team
<crimsun> A few Ubuntu devs have gone that route, Q-FUNK, like StevenK and azeem to name two.
<LaserJock> many NMs can become MOTUs in I'd say in 1-2 months if they work at it
<Q-FUNK> I know many people who have had their packages sponsored for ages, some of them even having completed NM and yet without their DD account yet and who are going nuts with the bureaucracy at debian.
<LaserJock> the Community Council and Technical Board do tack into account Debian maintainership activity
<Nafallo> ajmitch! :-D
<crimsun> ajmitch was in the Hoary exception group (where we gained both membership and MOTU) in one step.
<Nafallo> hmm, I wonder if I was.
<Q-FUNK> there's a lot of people losing motivation at debian right now and mjray was only the tip of the iceberg.
* Nafallo can't remember :-P
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: well it happens, but I know for sure that a 2-3 NM process is not something I feel like going through
<Q-FUNK> some old experienced DDs but also a LOT of new faces with lots of motivation and plenty of afterschool time to spare.
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: a 2-3 NM ?
<LaserJock> 2-3 year
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> yes
<Q-FUNK> well, it varies a lot.
<LaserJock> however, it does weed out a lot of people I suppose
<Q-FUNK> I've known peole to pass it within 1 month
<Q-FUNK> yes and no
<crimsun> Nafallo: I _think_ you were. Yeah, my memory's horrible, too.
<Q-FUNK> the delay is completely arbitrary.  partly due on the AM's availabilty, but also sometimes due to the DAMnation of never getting the account created for personal vendeta.
<LaserJock> crimsun: should I subscribe ubuntu-archive to the treeviewx sync?
<Fujitsu> Thanks LaserJock :)
<Q-FUNK> I've also noticed people who's approval was fast-tracked.
<crimsun> LaserJock: please do
<Q-FUNK> erm... whose
<crimsun> geser: apologies for the delay; I'll process it tonight
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: do you have a url for the matplotlib, etc. ?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I mentioned it a while back... Wait a sec.
<Nafallo> Q-FUNK: we already have the accounts on launchpad and just get approval to the right groups. that's mostly happening the moment you get approved in the meeting :-).
<Fujitsu> <Fujitsu> LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/scipy_etc
<LaserJock> I don't know, I sort of feel like we perhaps to a lot more non-packaging related stuff in Ubuntu
<minghua> Q-FUNK: I think Keith Packard (fontconfig upstream and maintainer) got through NM pretty fast
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: localisation, documentation and marketing-related stuff such as artwork and the overall polish have a bigger importance at ubuntu.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok, I'll take a look soonish
<Q-FUNK> minghua: could be
<Fujitsu> Thanks, LaserJock.
<Q-FUNK> that's actually a discussion we've had one too many times here at local LUGs.  we're all debian users and yet we have to admit that the ubuntu CD really is what 99% of this planet needs.
<geser> while we are collect ACKs for Sync Requests bug 61955 needs also two, doesn't it?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61955 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request]  sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins 2.5.0~rc3-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61955
<LaserJock> ok, gota get home
<Fujitsu> Bye.
<Q-FUNK> mostly because that single CD contains exactly what a desktop user needs and the default settings are sane.
<crimsun> geser: yes.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: you can't be too sure :-)  in some area with different language and different economy, Debian may still has the advantage
<Q-FUNK> minghua: how?
<Q-FUNK> especially looking at the emphasis that ubuntu puts on localisation, which is something that just barely got taken care of at debian
<minghua> Q-FUNK: I am from China.  I know a Ubuntu-derivative in China choose to start from Xubuntu, because (K)Ubuntu is a bit slow on the average machine in China
<minghua> Q-FUNK: the emphasis on l10n, for sure, but it's not there yet
<Q-FUNK> they've have denis and bubulle taking care of locales and coordinating the merging of trnaslations, but having a localisation infrastructure is soemthing quite recent at debian
<minghua> at least not dapper
<minghua> I know India's local language linux is a debian derivative
<minghua> because debian has better language support
<Q-FUNK> minghua: for that, I think that the main issue is that gnome and kde are complte DEs and have been localized for a long time.
<minghua> things may start changing in edgy
<minghua> but I know dapper is not there
<Q-FUNK> what's missing?
<minghua> I think the input method of quite a lot of languages in dapper is broken/half-broken
<Q-FUNK> ah yes
<minghua> e.g., you can't input in Qt apps if you install Ubuntu
<minghua> nor GTK apps if you install Kubuntu
<minghua> the input method support in dapper is quite rushed, IMHO
<Q-FUNK> kmuto told me a bit about that.  the free desktop needs unified input tools
<minghua> Q-FUNK: oh, so you were at the i18n Ex... meeting?
<Q-FUNK> it's not dapper, mind you.  it's just that each DE exists in its own universe.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: no, it's some simple oversight in the settings
<Q-FUNK> no but kmuto was and we previously met at debconf5
<minghua> Q-FUNK: trust me, I know this business, I am the maintainer of scim in debian
<Q-FUNK> minghua: ok.  have those oversights been reported in malone? ;)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: yes
<Q-FUNK> ah :)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: but nobody seems to care much
<Q-FUNK> hm..
<minghua> I am a MOTU myself, but I can't fix them because the packages are in main
<AnAnt> what's the difference between preinst & postinst ?
<chillywilly> geez, burning this data DVD is taking forever
<chillywilly> I should've provided the -speed arg
<Q-FUNK> minghua: tried mentioning it to the localisation and internationalistion teams?
<minghua> that was a quite bitter experience, to be honest
<minghua> Q-FUNK: where is said team?
<chillywilly> and I am still at work :(
<chillywilly> got 2 mnore full DVDs to go and then ~1.4GB on the last one
<minghua> Q-FUNK: to be fair, most of the bugs reported are fixed in edgy
<chillywilly> they're actually DVD isos of my Ubuntu mirror so I have all the software available when I upgrade the server tomorrowa
<chillywilly> have to rebuild the sangoma card driver for the T1 so I'll be offline
<AnAnt> geser: still there ?
<chillywilly> should've made a deb package for it
<minghua> Q-FUNK: but as dapper claims to emphasize on l10n, and is going to be supported for 5 years...
<geser> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> ping geser
<AnAnt> geser: k, I think I fixed it
<Nafallo> minghua: who cares about l10n on a server anyway? :-)
<AnAnt> geser: so I will upload nspluginwrapper
<geser> will try a rebuild as soon as it's there
<minghua> Nafallo: true, but still, dapper is current up-to-date stable, and we released 6.06.2, but things didn't improve (although bugs were reported before that)
<minghua> Nafallo: I admit I was exaggerating
<chillywilly> bah, this DVD burner is slow...won't go any faster than 2x
<AnAnt> geser: is linux32 used to run 32-bit apps on 64-bit Ubuntu ?
<Nafallo> what? have there been another milestone released?
<AnAnt> ping minghua
<AnAnt> ping Mithrandir
<minghua> or 6.06.1? sorry I don't know for sure
<AnAnt> minghua: sorry, wrong tab completion !
<geser> AnAnt: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-system.en.html#s-maintscripts (for preinst and postinst)
<AnAnt> geser: thanks,
<minghua> Nafallo: and actually when I think about it, maybe there are people care about l10n on server
<Nafallo> minghua: ah, 6.06.1 indeed :-). I only run that on servers anyway, so I won't really know.
<geser> AnAnt: linux32 is used to give the kernel a 32bit personality
<Nafallo> minghua: oh, right! l10n != i18n.
<AnAnt> geser: meaning ?
<geser> e.g. uname -m returns x86_64 but linux32 uname -m return i686
<tseng> meaning it tells the app "hey you are running on a 32-bit box, act accordingly"
<geser> you can run 32bit apps without linux32, you only need 32bit libs
<minghua> Nafallo: what about those accounting dept. in China?  they need a stable system for the payroll system and they need inputting Chinese names
<Q-FUNK> minghua: https://launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs
<AnAnt> how can I know the name of the architecture I am on ?
<AnAnt> I see that there is dpkg-architecture
<tseng> dpkg-architecture
<minghua> Q-FUNK: you mean l10n and i18n team?
<Nafallo> minghua: yea, that's i18n. I don't really know that, since I'm from Sweden and we have quite working both i18n and l10n.
<AnAnt> tseng: there are many, outputs, which should I use ?
<tseng> you can also parse uname -a
<Nafallo> or uname -m :-)
<AnAnt> BUILD_ARCH, HOST_ARCH, HOST_ARCH_CPU , which ?
<minghua> Nafallo: yeah, I hear sweden has good l10n.  you weird people having two scripts for one language :-)
<Nafallo> hehe, do we? :-)
<Q-FUNK> minghua: that's the only group I foudn that could remotely be interested
<minghua> was I wrong?...
<geser> AnAnt: what do you want to archieve?
<Nafallo> i18n has UTF-8, iso-8859-1 and iso-8859-15. if that's what you mean with scripts :-)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: yeah, thanks.  but I don't think it's really proper to bother all of them.  and I am busy anyway
<Q-FUNK> minghua: I'm affraid that you were right.  wanna start a team called i18n and another called input-methods? ;)
<AnAnt> geser: ok, I need to do a symlink in postinst
<minghua> Q-FUNK: there is a developer (MOTU) working on the input methods in ubuntu, but one person is probably not enough
<minghua> Q-FUNK: maybe not yet...
<Q-FUNK> minghua: create a team with him.  generate momentum.
<AnAnt> geser: but it seems that the file I need to symlink to is in /usr/lib/nspluginwrapper/<ARCH>/FILE
<minghua> Q-FUNK: unfortunately we don't have a very good relationship
<Q-FUNK> ah :(
<Q-FUNK> minghua: blog about it?
<minghua> I thought his pushing input methods into dapper was pre-mature, and obviously he doesn't agree
<Q-FUNK> minghua: if all it takes is merging a few simple fixes, surely bloging about it on planet ubuntu will wake someone up to merge them?
<minghua> Q-FUNK: Hmm, tempting.  But I am not aggregated in any planet.  And the problem is much smaller in edgy anyway
<Q-FUNK> minghua: any other chinese ubuntu developer on the planet?  if not, might as well jump in. :)
<geser> AnAnt: most likely DEB_HOST_GNU_CPU or DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU
<minghua> Q-FUNK: I don't really know the policy for dapper-updates
<minghua> Q-FUNK: and my focus is on Debian currently (as etch release is close)
<Q-FUNK> minghua: it's not that importnat.  blog something as simple as "I made a simple patch to harmonize the input methods on gnome and kde. it's already in debian. could someone be so kind as to merge in ubuntu?"
<AnAnt> geser: what's the difference between the X & X_CPU
<AnAnt> ?
<minghua> Q-FUNK: not as far as I know (Chinese developer on planet)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: sorry for being unclear.  The settings are ubuntu-specific, Debian is now doing it in etch, but in different way
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> well, almost the same message, still.
<Q-FUNK> it could work :)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: and these two ways are probably also where I and the other Ubuntu input method developer have different opinions
<Q-FUNK> oh.
<minghua> my time is limited, so for now I'll concentrate on debian etch
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> hopefully edgy will work
<minghua> maybe post edgy, I'll write something (hopefully by then etch will have a working example to illustrate my points)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: edgy works much better than dapper, for sure
<Q-FUNK> although edgy release is before etch
<geser> AnAnt: sorry, I don't know
<minghua> yeah, let's just hope etch is before edgy+1 ;-)
<AnAnt_> geser: sorry, I was d/c
<Q-FUNK> minghua: well, hopefully something good will come up.  here, I count myself lucky enough that I only need UTF-8 and 2 keyboard maps.
<geser> AnAnt: sorry, I don't know the difference
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> geser: I re-uploaded nspluginwrapper
<minghua> Q-FUNK: 2 keyboard maps being English and Swedish?
<AnAnt> it's still in the incoming dir
<Q-FUNK> minghua: finnish (same as swedish, for now) and russian phonetic.
<minghua> and talking about UTF-8, I hate those legacy encodings for Chinese
<minghua> Q-FUNK: so you use the Finnish one to type English, I suppose?
<Q-FUNK> thee's loose talks about makng the finnish keyboard diverge from scandinavian layouts and to make it closer to the estonian layout.
* minghua never understood keyboard mappings
<Q-FUNK> yup
<AnAnt> geser: ok, it's there
<Q-FUNK> well, it's mostly about altering the basic qwerty layout to insert frequenty used foreign letters to their own keys.
<Q-FUNK> here, I have the 2 extra finnish vowels plus one swedish vowel on their own keys.
<Q-FUNK> the rusian keymap is a different story altogether, since we use the cyrillic alphabet instead of the latin alphabet.
<Q-FUNK>  on my 
<Nafallo>  :-)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: by the way, I was wrong, the weird people having two scripts are Norwegians :-)
<minghua> sorry, Nafallo ^^^
<Q-FUNK> 2 scripts?
<Q-FUNK> you mean two national language variants?
<Nafallo> Q-FUNK: nynorsk and bokml :-)
<Q-FUNK> tought so
<minghua> yeah, I don't know the details
<Nafallo> or rather nn and nb :-)
<minghua> they write differently but using the same script?
<minghua> or are they just different languages?
<Nafallo> I think the keyboard is NO for them
<minghua> weird people either way :-)
<Q-FUNK> nynorsk is tryng to receate old norse by making a compund languge from what remains of old slangs in northern villages.
<AnAnt> geser: you testing it ?
<geser> yes, it still fails with the same error
<Q-FUNK> bokml is modernized danish, which is what was spoken in norway during danish alliance.
<Nafallo> We have SE.{se,fi}
<AnAnt> wierd
<AnAnt> geser: in the compile, do you see a -fPIC ?
<Nafallo> though I don't know the difference ;-)
<Nafallo> s/SE/SV/
<Q-FUNK> sv_NO
<minghua> I see, thanks Q-FUNK
<geser> AnAnt: yes, I see the -fPIC
<Nafallo> right, sv_SE and sv_FI :-)
<AnAnt> hmmm
<AnAnt> and the error asks for -fPIC ?
<Nafallo> Q-FUNK: _NO? :-P
<geser> yes
<AnAnt> geser: do you see -fPIC in compile & link or in one of them only ?
<Q-FUNK> Nafallo: :-P
<geser> compile and link
<Q-FUNK> well, they say that norwegian is swedish spoken by a dane. :-P
<AnAnt> geser: hmmm, dunno then, you got any ideas ?
<geser> AnAnt: inside the objs32 dir do you try to build 32bit?
<Nafallo> Q-FUNK: haha! :-)
<Q-FUNK> hence sv_NO
<AnAnt> geser: dunno, I just followed the steps in README
<Nafallo> ah, that's what you where doing ;-)
<AnAnt> geser: but it seems so ( I think )
<Q-FUNK> Nafallo: say, tehcnically, that would mena that you guys speka skne? ;)
<Nafallo> Q-FUNK: naah, that's more sv_DK :-)
<AnAnt> got to sleep
<Q-FUNK> or would it be dk_SE ?
<Q-FUNK> and they we throw Vermlan into the equation...
<Nafallo> haha
<Nafallo> that can't even be compared to something else ;-)
<Q-FUNK> kyllp
<Q-FUNK> se on vanhaa suomee :D
<Q-FUNK> with a lot of eally old swedish blended in
* Nafallo didn't understood a word of that :-P
<Q-FUNK> it's that odd language we speak speak east of land
<Q-FUNK> vermlan is more of the same, only much older
<Nafallo> hehe, oki :-)
<Nafallo> and yes, that language is just odd :-P
<Nafallo> we atleast stole some words from other langs ;-)
<Nafallo> somehow you people managed not to do that ;-)
<Q-FUNK> we did
<Q-FUNK> not as much as estonians did, but we did
<Nafallo> oh? from where? I've never heard something quite like finish anywhere else :-)
<Q-FUNK> estonia.
<Nafallo> s/ini/inni/
<Nafallo> hmm, oki. I don't think I've heard that either though ;-)
<Q-FUNK> to give you an idea, estonia is danish, finnish is swedish and hungarian is icelandic.
* minghua stares at Q-FUNK's analogy
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<Nafallo> but then again. I don't understand either danish not icelandic, so you're probably pretty much on your own then ;-)
<Nafallo> s/not/nor/
<Q-FUNK> minghua: I purposely used an analogy that refers to the position of scandinavians in the linguistic tree.  estonian and danish are both the simplest in theirs, finnish and swedish the more formal, hungarian and icelandic the more far out.
<Nafallo> danish is simple? :-P
<Q-FUNK> much simpler than bokml
<Nafallo> can't agree with that :-)
<Q-FUNK> it's just that well, how should I put this nicely... they speak with a hot potato in their mouth after going to the dentist.
<Nafallo> I can understand NO, but not the other langs up here :-)
<minghua> Q-FUNK: I really appreciate the explanation.  I can imagine that's a analogy on linguistic relationship, it's just a bit hard to imagine what the relationship exactly is when you know none of the six languages involved :-)
<Nafallo> lol! true that! :-)
<Nafallo> minghua: hehe ;-)
<Q-FUNK> minghua: I'm sure you could cook up something similar about all main chinese languages.
<minghua> oh, Chinese languages are probably more convoluted
<minghua> especially we have scripts involved as well
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: I got through NM in 5 days, for what it's worth.
* StevenK comes back from sleeping and reads backscroll.
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: that was really quick.
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Yes, and I didn't even know about all the crap that NM is really really slow until after I was a DD. :-)
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: when was that, though?
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: 2001
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> right after NM was started?
<StevenK> Um...
<StevenK> Pretty soon after NM was re-opened.
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> there was no backlog I guess
<StevenK> There was an eight month break when NM was closed, so that the processes could be reviewed.
<Q-FUNK> was that when dam threatened to leave the project?
<StevenK> I don't remember that happening.
<StevenK> However, I was not really involved when NM was closed.
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> to me, you've been there forever.
<Q-FUNK> at least, I remember your name from too far back to remember.
* StevenK didn't think he was that memorable.
<Nafallo> StevenK: you are :-)
<Q-FUNK> signed your key at debconf5
<StevenK> Ah ha
<StevenK> Nafallo: Oh stop. ;-)
<Nafallo> StevenK: I just did a /whois on you for the first time... so you are! :-)
* Nafallo hadn't fully computed that K ;-)
* StevenK still remembers the first time he joined here.
<StevenK> ajmitch and a few others went, "You're a DD!" *latch*
<tseng> wasnt me
<Nafallo> haha
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Q-FUNK> heh.
<Q-FUNK> omg! IT'S HIM!
<Nafallo> :-)
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: I've done that in real life when I saw Ted T'so at LCA 2002.
<Nafallo> hehe
<Q-FUNK> :D
* Nafallo > sleep
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: please respin your gnomebaker 0.6.0 diff.gz to include previous Ubuntu changelog history
<Toadstool> re
<crimsun> re Jrmie
<Toadstool> :)
<Fujitsu> crimsun, OK... But why? It would have lost it in the sync that would have happened otherwise. It's not based on the Ubuntu version.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: currently Edgy's has a Ubuntu delta. You need to retain that if you're creating an updated Ubuntu source package.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: if you want, simply drop in the relevant Ubuntu entries from debian/changelog
<Fujitsu> crimsun, that delta is now nullified by Debian changes.
<crimsun> gnomebaker | 0.5.1-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
<crimsun> we have a delta; you need to keep it.
<crimsun> if it were 0.5.1-5 in Edgy, you wouldn't have to keep the changelog history
<Fujitsu> Even though Debian has absorbed all of those changes?
<crimsun> yes
<Fujitsu> Why!?
<crimsun> you /must/ maintain what Ubuntu changelog entries exist in the current source package if you go from -XubuntuFOO to -0ubuntu1
<crimsun> you must do it because no sync will have occurred between when 0.5.1-0ubuntu1 and 0.6.0-0ubuntu1 were uploaded
<Fujitsu> OK, I've added the changelog entries in... Rebuilding at the moment.
<Fujitsu> I was presuming it would be possible/ideal to manually sync and get a new upstream version in in the same upload... I was obviously incorrect.
<crimsun> that's not a sync in the sense we use
<crimsun> a sync drops all Ubuntu changes once it hits the archive
<Fujitsu> Well, I mean dropping all Ubuntu changes before uploading.
<crimsun> you're not syncing because you're going from 0.5.1-0ubuntu1 -> 0.6.0-0ubuntu1
<Fujitsu> But I know we can't do that now.
<Fujitsu> I was attempting to achieve the same effect that would have been had if 0.5.1-5 had been synced, and a 0.6.0-0ubuntu1 based on that.
<Fujitsu> Thus minimising the Ubuntu delta.
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<crimsun> yes, that's perfectly acceptable, but you must retain the Ubuntu changelog history since a current Ubuntu delta exists
<Fujitsu> OK, I've uploaded a version with the changelog now.
<Fujitsu> Thankyou for pointing that out :)
<crimsun> np.
<crimsun> thanks for working on 0.6.0
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<Fujitsu> Good riddance to Gstreamer 0.8!
<Fujitsu> And this has nice libnotify support as well.
<bddebian> heh
<Fujitsu> I think the original Debian 11_add_raw_extension_support.dpatch had its logic around the wrong way...
* Fujitsu tests.
* bddebian hands his "Godwiki" over to Fujitsu :)
<Fujitsu> ... godwiki?
<imbrandon> hehehe
<Fujitsu> That page on the wiki?
<bddebian> Yeah
<Fujitsu> An interesting page, that is :P
<Fujitsu> And I agree with it fully! Mr. God sir.
<bddebian> I guess :-(
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<LaserJock> thanks imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Yes, I know that one :PHm.
* imbrandon go's back to stargate sg-1
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> Debian's patch 11 does in fact have it's logic around the wrong way, and completely screws up the checking.
<Fujitsu> I thought my working one was rather different.
<Fujitsu> Thanks, crimsun :)
<crimsun> np
<Fujitsu> That closes a few bugs, I believe.
<crimsun> collect your hobbsee hugs.
<LaserJock> where is Hobbsee?
<Fujitsu> Or Hobbsee proddings with long pointy DOOM sticks.
<bddebian> heh
<Toadstool> :D
<LaserJock> is the universe list on merges.ubuntu.com right?
<bddebian> I think so :-(
<LaserJock> you gotta be kidding me
<crimsun> nope.
<crimsun> tbh, we're doing a lot better than we were last release
<crimsun> in no small part thanks to our esteemed Aussies
<Toadstool> grah! I must have accidently deleted my mldonkey debdiff for dapper-proposed... silly me :(
* Toadstool reads carefully https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and prepares another one
<Fujitsu> Yeah, Hobbsee been doing a lot :)
<LaserJock> I thought we got them all in dapper?
<crimsun> not nearly
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, a number of them are just rebuilds (I've filed sync requests for a number of them, but not all of them), and a few are fake syncs.
<crimsun> oh wait, maybe bddebian did 'em for 6.06
<crimsun> I kinda slept through universe stuff for 6.06 thanks to alsa
<LaserJock> I know we had a big push at UVF
<Fujitsu> crimsun, ALSA... What fun.
<Fujitsu> Can MoM have a comments field added at some point?
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> I don't understand the new and updated lists
<bddebian> What'd I do now?
<Fujitsu> So notes like `fake sync', or `needs new stuff in main', or whatever can be added, so I don't keep trying to do things that have already been confirmed to not be possible for Edgy.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, Updated is stuff that's already got an edgy entry in the changelog.
<LaserJock> and what are the manual list?
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure about those, but maybe stuff that MoM choked on.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> I see.
<bddebian> tarball issues most of them
<bddebian> md5sums don't match
<Fujitsu> Looks like new packages that have just appeared in Debian, but been in Ubuntu a while, most of them...
<imbrandon> mostly stuff that was in ubuntu first then got put into debian later diffrently
<bddebian> Usually just pull the Debian package but use the Ubuntu orig.tar.gz
<bddebian> imbrandon: Aye
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, exactly.
<crimsun> we totally need to divide+wiki like the old days
<Fujitsu> I really think that MoM needs a comment field for each row.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, pardon?
<crimsun> (well, except without the wiki)
<crimsun> each of us took an alphabetical chunk and had at it, listing WIPs on a wiki page. The wiki stuff doesn't make sense now, but could probably push through a good portion in 5 days
<Fujitsu> If everybody takes a chunk, it'll work better, yes.
<LaserJock> well, I really liked the dapper system we had with the revu page
<Fujitsu> There are 200 to go...
<bddebian> Gads you folks are going to suck me back in damnit
<LaserJock> :-)
* Fujitsu sucks bddebian back in.
<LaserJock> I hope so
<crimsun> ok, I'll lock lib* source packages.
<Fujitsu> So, are we going to try to get them all done?
<Fujitsu> I'll take that as a yes :P
<crimsun> c'mon barry, you loved the transitions
<Fujitsu> C++ ABI transitions?
<crimsun> be a shining hero again!
<crimsun> and X.Org and GL{u} and desktop and ...
<Fujitsu> Oh, those.
<crimsun> I lost count a year or so ago
<bddebian> Hero? Heh, I'm a nobody
<Fujitsu> Yes, they're lovely.
<Fujitsu> Bad bddebian!
* Fujitsu makes a list of improvements that Edgy+1 MoM needs.
<bddebian> Are some of them even worth it?  Things like foo-1.0-1ubuntu1 vs foo-1.0-1.1 ?
<bddebian> I wanted to do azureus but doko has some concerns/thoughts and I can't get a hold of him
<crimsun> bddebian: I'd say yep, even if they end up as sync requests
<bddebian> libnss wasn't building last I checked
<Fujitsu> bddebian, I've tried to prioritise new upstream versions, but I still do the little ones.
<Fujitsu> bddebian, this is exactly why we need a comments field.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: I Know, I agree
<Fujitsu> And an `Oy! I'm doing this, hands off.' link.
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> in dapper we filed a bug to lock in which one were working on
<bddebian> I don't have an Edgy machine handy to test installs with though :-(
<LaserJock> and a python webpage that listed all the merges to do and who was doing what
<Fujitsu> That would be nice.
* Fujitsu attacks those xfce4* things.
<crimsun> you might to coordinate w/ Gauvain on those
<Fujitsu> Yes, they look a little strange.
<LaserJock> hmm, what is the best way to grab a sid source package?
<bddebian> I usually use packages.qa.debian.org and wget :-)
<LaserJock> ugg ;-)
<Toadstool> bddebian: dget is more efficient :p
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I use my magical get-debian.py, which will even grab the relevant changelog entries if you give it the previous version.
<Toadstool> otherwise I must have some sid chroot hidden on my harddrive and I use dchroot -d -c sid apt-get source :p
<LaserJock> Toadstool: dget or debget?
<Toadstool> dget
<Toadstool> which in devscripts iirc
<Toadstool> +is
<imbrandon> dget rocks
<imbrandon> i use it ALL the time
<Toadstool> :)
<crimsun> yep, devscripts rocks
<crimsun> devscripts+patchutils == win
<imbrandon> ;)
<Toadstool> yay!
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> I can't find it
<Toadstool> hmm?
<LaserJock> dget
<Fujitsu> In devscripts.
<LaserJock> I know that
<LaserJock> it's not in there
<Fujitsu> fujitsu@irranat:~/MOTUing/gnomebaker$ dpkg -S bin/dget
<Fujitsu> devscripts: /usr/bin/dget
<LaserJock> I did a dpkg -c on my devscripts .deb and it's not there
<Fujitsu> What version of devscripts do you have?
<crimsun> $ sha1sum /usr/bin/dget
<crimsun> 37798a21cb3811392b29f449533a677003ed9e3f  /usr/bin/dget
<LaserJock> 2.9.10
<imbrandon> i thought it was in with dput
<Toadstool> LaserJock: you should dist-upgrade your warty :p
<Fujitsu> I've got 2.9.20
<LaserJock> I'm running dapper
<Fujitsu> I'd assume it'd be in Dapper as well...
<Toadstool> yep
<imbrandon> i thought it was in with dput
<LaserJock> it's not there either
<crimsun> it's not
<imbrandon> hrm
<crimsun> dget was added in 2.9.12
<Fujitsu> Fantastic.
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> we that stinks, somebody backport it asap ;-)
<imbrandon> dget http://url.to/some/package.dsc
<Fujitsu> Silly old stable versions of Ubuntu.
* Fujitsu prods merges.ubuntu.com.
<Fujitsu> It's being really slow.
<LaserJock> ok, so I'm creating a dapper pbuilder so I can backport devscripts so I can dget so I can grab sid source packages so I can upload Fujitsu's merges ;-)
<Fujitsu> Oh dear. :P
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hold on
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: do me a favor
<Fujitsu> OK...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: download the source for devscripts and re-upload them to revu
<imbrandon> please
<Fujitsu> Erm... Why?
<imbrandon> heh you'll see
<imbrandon> but i'm on osx atm and cant
<imbrandon> upload to revu
<Fujitsu> OK, if you say so..
<Fujitsu> Why REVU?
<crimsun> he wants the pbuilder functionality
<LaserJock> cause there is a dapper pbuilder there
<imbrandon> exactly
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<bddebian> serpento done
<Fujitsu> Currently filing sync request for dmraid...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ....
<Fujitsu> ?
<imbrandon> you gonna upload ?
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> If you want me to, I shall...
<LaserJock> I think I'll do it faster
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, probably :P
<LaserJock> my pbuilder is almost built
<LaserJock> I'm on my "fast" machine at home
<LaserJock> a whole 1800+ OCed to 2100+ :-)
<Fujitsu> Fantastic.
<imbrandon> hehe
<bddebian> Damn, libnss-ldap has 5 release critical bugs :-(
<LaserJock> building
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<LaserJock> I need to figure out how to log into a pbuilder and do bindmounts
<LaserJock> then I'd never need a chroot really
<bddebian> You folks are killing my Hurd hacking
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> excellent
<Fujitsu> Hurd!
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu GNU/Hurd. I like it.
<imbrandon> bddebian: can you help me install flashplayer-nonfree on hurd ?!?
* imbrandon ducks
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Sync request for yum filed
<Fujitsu> Urgh.
<Fujitsu> Yuck.
<crimsun> I've got this reflex action where I navigate to all sync requests. Thanks, Fujitsu. :P
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Toadstool> :)
<Fujitsu> You have done about 70 of mine, I think :P
<crimsun> I usually roll into work and have a half-dozen or so to process
<imbrandon> you know if i had the money i would buy the IP to mp3 and gpl it
<bddebian> Hmm, to fix scannerrlog properly or not..
<crimsun> I think I uploaded that one already
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: and why aren't we using a numpy that isn't in Debian yet?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, why are we, you mean? It's needed for Python 2.5 to not explode.
<crimsun> it really just needs to be a python policy-compliant change
<LaserJock> oh, so numpy will work on pyton 2.5 if we have the rc?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> Rather than beta 5.
<bddebian> crimsun: Aye.  It has fix committed on LP
<Fujitsu> matplotlib won't work in Python 2.5 at all, but numpy and scipy will with the new numpy.
<LaserJock> ok, well I guess it's going to NEW no matter what, we might as well beat Debian to it ;-)
<Fujitsu> :)
<LaserJock> I guess we'll just want another MOTU *cough*bddebian or crimsun*cough* to ok so we have 2 acks
<bddebian> LaserJock: On?
<crimsun> url?
* bddebian begs off to the might crimsun
<crimsun> like the might mouse?
<LaserJock> numpy on http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/scipy_etc/
<crimsun> you don't need ACKs on those
<Fujitsu> Yes, two ACKs are just for new packages, aren't they?
<crimsun> if they're already in the archive, and you're a MOTU, you can have at 'em
<crimsun> Fujitsu: right
<Fujitsu> New source packages, even.
<crimsun> ->dinner
<LaserJock> but numpy is NEW isn't it?
<Fujitsu> python-numpy isn't.
<LaserJock> oh, my bad
<LaserJock> I could have sworn we didn't have it yet
<imbrandon> python-numpy - Numerical Python adds a fast array facility to the Python language
<imbrandon> python-numpy-dev - Numerical Python adds a fast array facility to the Python language
<imbrandon> python-numpy-doc - Numpy documentation
<LaserJock> I see it on LP now
<imbrandon> python-numpy-ext - Numerical Python adds a fast array facility to the Python language
<Fujitsu> We do, or scipy wouldn't have worked :P
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I thought we were still using the old scipy
<LaserJock> that deped on scipy-core
<LaserJock> anyway...
<Fujitsu> Maybe...
<imbrandon> man you sci guys have funny names for the programs, sounds like some of the 7 darwf names
<Fujitsu> But it's not NEW.
<Fujitsu> numpy and scipy?
<imbrandon> heh yea
<Fujitsu> My father is about to move from Tcl to Python, using numpy :)
<imbrandon> ;)
* Fujitsu runs off for a minute.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: scientific python and numerical python ;-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> I like scipy and numpy better
<Fujitsu> Sigh-pie!
* imbrandon is off for an early nap, i've been staying up too late
<Toadstool> Alright, "my" updated merges -> done
<imbrandon> gnight all
<Fujitsu> I've got three listed, though two were fake syncs so don't actually need attacking.
<Fujitsu> 'night, imbrandon.
<Toadstool> g'night imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Heya, Hobbsee.
<Toadstool> haha, imbrandon knew Hobbsee was coming :)
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool :)
* Hobbsee wonders how imbrandon knew
<Hobbsee> oh, jabber
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: never mind, this was supposed to be a joke... imbrandon went to bed just before you arrived :p
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: ahh :P
<Fujitsu> Like, 21 seconds before.
<Toadstool> *nevermind even
<Toadstool> hmm... /me not sure...
<Hobbsee> never mind, i believe
<Hobbsee> ie, two words
<Toadstool> ok :)
<LaserJock> oh drat, debian's got a newer scipy
<Fujitsu> As of when?
<Fujitsu> Hm...
<Fujitsu> Why drat?
<Fujitsu> Shall I merge that one now?
<LaserJock> nah, I do it
<LaserJock> I should do *something* around here
<Fujitsu> :P
<Fujitsu> This will take me up to a whole two new upstream versions. What a large number :P
<Fujitsu> What a long reboot...
* Fujitsu -> lunch
<LaserJock> how odd
<LaserJock> the version of scipy we have in edgy
<LaserJock> isn't in the Debian changelog
<bddebian> masqmail uploaded
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
<LaserJock> crimsun: what happens if the md5sum of .orig.tar.gz files don't match?
<bddebian> LaserJock: It probably matches the Ubuntu version
<bddebian> Pull debian then use our orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> well, I know that our .orig.tar.gz is wrong
<LaserJock> would it have to go through NEW again?
<bddebian> You know our orig.tar.gz is wrong?
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> How?
<LaserJock> I'm the maintainer
<bddebian> Oh, hehe
<bddebian> cuetools sync requested...
<LaserJock> and I screwed up my Ubuntu package and accidently left a build-stamp in the .orig.tar.gz
<bddebian> LaserJock: Is it a new version?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> maybe I'll just wait for a new upstream version to get it right
<bddebian> Add an epoch ;-P
<LaserJock> oh heck no
<bddebian> I was kidding :-)
<LaserJock> bbiab guys
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: how did you build scipy with the numpy you just built?
<Fujitsu> Back.
<Fujitsu> Laser_away, sudo pbuilder login, copy numpy debs and scipy source in, install numpy, build scipy.
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: magic :P
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: someone needs to put some stuff about pbuilder login in that guide
<Fujitsu> They do, yes.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: volunteering :P
* Fujitsu runs/
<Toadstool> ls ~/debuntu/results/
<Toadstool> uhuh
<Fujitsu> Hi again, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok, so do you do bindmounts in the pbuilder?
<Fujitsu> No.
<LaserJock> how do you copy the debs in?
<Fujitsu> I just copy them straight into the chroot's directory.
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<LaserJock> and then how do you build once you are in there?
<Fujitsu> Much easier.
* LaserJock is pretty dumb with this stuff
<Fujitsu> I grab the build-depends (install pbuilder package and run /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends if there are a lot, it handles build-deps for you), then just debuild.
<LaserJock> ok
<Fujitsu> (after installing the numpy debs, of course)
<bddebian> wmtop uploaded
<Fujitsu> bddebian, yay :)
* Fujitsu kills something.
<Fujitsu> MoM says there's an unmergable conflict in a file in rtfm... Those two files are identical.
<Fujitsu> And rtfm's diff is odd.. The only change is bumping debhelper and compat versions.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Bugger that then.
<Fujitsu> Drop it?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I think so.
<Fujitsu> As do I.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It seems pointless, to be honest.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Request a sync, tell me the bug number and I'll ACK it.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Or I can just do it?
<Fujitsu> I'll file it..
<StevenK> Kay.
<StevenK> At least Malone is quicker than debbugs.
* StevenK feels spoilt by Launchpad.
<Fujitsu> ?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The Debian BTS is slower at assigning numbers and such, and uploads to Debian also take a day to hit mirrors - it seems quicker with Ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> Ahah.
<Fujitsu> Yay, this sync will close the only open bug about rtfm.
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> Impossible, Hobbsee has no cloak.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm ssh'd into StevenK's machine - i dont have passwords on there
<Fujitsu> Aha... But with a username of user?
<Fujitsu> StevenK, bug #61976
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61976 in rtfm "Please sync rtfm 2.0.3-1.1 (universe) from Debian Sid (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61976
<LaserJock> wow, this is fun
<Fujitsu> ?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes
<Hobbsee> and StevenK's not around, i suspect
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I just started build scipy
<crimsun> he spoke 9 minutes ago?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, aha.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, he was around 4 minutes before you arrived.
<Hobbsee> awww...
<StevenK> I was putting the shopping away.
<Hobbsee> he is here :P
<Fujitsu> No! You're not allowed to do real-life stuff! You're a DD, there's no such thing as real-life.
<Hobbsee> haha
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Hah
* Hobbsee notes that StevenK did real life stuff yesterday too.
* Hobbsee saw proof of it :P
* Kyral tacklehugs Hobbsee
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: heh, this is fun
<Fujitsu> What? scipy and co.?
<LaserJock> well, the pbuilder login stuff in particular
<LaserJock> I haven't had a need to use it
<LaserJock> although I knew you could do it
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: please dont tell me how many merges you've done when not actually running the system
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> Sstill around?
<LaserJock> yeah
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> How are you man
<Fujitsu> This was my first need for it, I just worked out how to do it as I went along :)
<tuxmaniac> Long time no see
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: hm?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: how do you test if your merges are installable?
<LaserJock> I install them :-)
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: puiparts
<Toadstool> :p
<Fujitsu> Most people don't, Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee wonders what that is
<LaserJock> puiparts?
<LaserJock> it's a cool tool
<LaserJock> I'd like to include it in the packaging guide if I get the time
<Toadstool> piuparts even
<Fujitsu> What is it?
<LaserJock> it's like pbuilder for installs
<Toadstool> yep
<Fujitsu> Ah,
<Fujitsu> There.
<Toadstool> checks installation, upgrade paths etc
<Fujitsu> I couldn't find a puiparts :P
* Kyral pounces Hobbsee
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you do the install in a pbuilder?
* Fujitsu runs.
<Hobbsee_> LaserJock: yes
<Hobbsee_> hey Kyral
* Hobbsee_ throws Kyral into a pool
* Fujitsu throws Hobbsee_ into a dists.
<Fujitsu> Ooh, a remote Hobbsee... Who would have thought!
<Toadstool> hmm, got to go.. see you
<Hobbsee> bye Toadstool
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my X is broken
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: so i was connecting remotely while playing with ti
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I am in -devel, you know :P
<Hobbsee> point
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, nothing's exploded yet?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, everything built
<LaserJock> I'm going to unpack a fresh pbuilder and install them all
<bddebian> OK, tulip sync requested.  Now it's bed time.  Gnight folks
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<bddebian> Gnight LaserJock
<Fujitsu> 'night.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: uploading :-)
<LaserJock> nick Laser_away
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :)
<joejaxx> what does this part mean?
<Hobbsee> :)
<joejaxx> the comment part
<joejaxx> You need a user ID to identify your key; the software constructs the user ID
<joejaxx> from the Real Name, Comment and Email Address in this form
<Hobbsee> so you could include your irc name, or just leave it blank
<joejaxx> ok
* Hobbsee has her irc name, as she usually goes by her irc name here, instead of her real name
<joejaxx> so
<joejaxx> Comment: joejaxx
<joejaxx> ?
<Hobbsee> if you want
<joejaxx> ok
<Hobbsee> it doesnt really matter
<joejaxx> wow now i have to find someone near me :\
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: so now upload that key to the ubuntu keyserver?
<Hobbsee> yes
<joejaxx> ok i uploaded it
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> so do i have to wait for someone to sign my key before i can sign this package?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: gpg: skipped "Joseph Jackson IV <jjacksoniv@fluxbuntu.org>": secret key not available
<joejaxx> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<joejaxx> :(
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: is the email address you used in debian/changelog the same as the one that's on your key?
<joejaxx> yes
<Hobbsee> how are you building the package?
<Hobbsee> add a -kyourkeyid to the end of the command you're using to build
<joejaxx> no space between -kASDASDASSDAD
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<Hobbsee> yep
<Lathiat> grr to sudo having a cry when you change your time
<Hobbsee> hehe, yeah
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: when i run lintian
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: it gives me warning about dh_make templates
<joejaxx> :P
<Hobbsee> you might want to fix that then :P
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: this is my first non metapackage package
<Hobbsee> oh, that means you've got a whole lot of *.ex and *.EX files in debian/?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: yes there are a whole bunch of those
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: get rid of them - taht's what the error is referring to :)
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: just delete them all? lol
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: sure, have a look inside them
<Hobbsee> they're just example files
<Hobbsee> you're examining the packaging guide?
<Hobbsee> also run linda thru your package
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: yes i am going through it
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<joejaxx> W: fluxbox: binary-without-manpage fluxbox-generate_menu
<joejaxx> :\
<Hobbsee> ah yes, i hate that one
<Hobbsee> there is a manpage example file
<Hobbsee> adapt it :P
<joejaxx> adapt?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: what do you mean?
<Hobbsee> change/modify it
<joejaxx> i did rm *.ex and rm *.EX in that directory lol
<StevenK> I think some start with ex.
<joejaxx> building the package once again :)
<joejaxx> this is exciting
<AnAnt_> ping Mithrandir
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: what should i do aboutgetting my gpg key signed
<joejaxx> i do not know anyone from my area to get it signed
<AnAnt_> what is Malone ?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: you dont need it signed until you go for MOTU
<Hobbsee> AnAnt_: the bug tracker
<Hobbsee> AnAnt_: in launchpad
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: what about signing the CoC?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: s/until/if/
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: that's different.  you probably do want to do that
<AnAnt_> oh
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: it is not letting me import mykey on launchpad :(
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: and my key is on the keyserver
<AnAnt> can anyone explain what linux32 does ?
<pygi> joejaxx: wait like half an hour if you just synced it with keyserver
<Hobbsee> pass?
<StevenK> AnAnt: On sparc? Or what?
<AnAnt> StevenK: on amd64
<StevenK> I suspect that's an Edgy-ism
<AnAnt> meaning what ?
<Hobbsee> 32bit and 64bit systems?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you should upgrade your laptop
<StevenK> It doesn't exist on my Dapper amd64
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Later, hush. :-)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: later is now :)
<Hobbsee> later has come :)
<Hobbsee> it's not that broken
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Assignment....
<Hobbsee> bah
* Hobbsee is ignoring her assignment again
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> AnAnt: I suspect it runs stuff linked against 32-bits libs and such like.
<StevenK> {Multi,Bi}-arch stuff
<joejaxx> pygi: i has been more than 30 minutes
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :(
<joejaxx> what should i do?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: W: fluxbox: binary-without-manpage fluxbox-generate_menu
<joejaxx> W: fluxbox: unknown-section main
<joejaxx> :)
<Hobbsee> probably should be X11
<Hobbsee> you're packagign fluxbox?
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> i wonder what to do about the man page
<joejaxx> i do not know where it is located
<Fujitsu> Fluxbox is already packaged... Is it a new version or something?
<Hobbsee> i'm guessing you'd need to write one?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: 1.0rc2
<joejaxx> freeflying: it is for my distro
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, would it not be easier to just update the current package?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: *
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i do not know how to do that
<Hobbsee> it would, yes
<Fujitsu> Like, it took me less than an hour to update to gnomebaker 0.6.0, and that was with some pretty major changes.
<freeflying> joejaxx: what?
<Hobbsee> freeflying: i'd guess at bad tab completion
<freeflying> Hobbsee: :)
<joejaxx> freeflying: sorry about that
<freeflying> joejaxx: :)
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i do not know how to update packages only build them
<joejaxx> :\
<joejaxx> and i also messed up my gpg key
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, if you grab the old package, you can run `uupdate newversion.tar.gz', and it'll attempt to update the package.
<joejaxx> it was made 605 seconds in the future
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: oh ok
<joejaxx> 6805*
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: unless it dies.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, true, but that's not overly common.
<Hobbsee> in my experience it is, but i'll leave that to a lack of experience
<Hobbsee> like, trying it for about 1 package, and seeing it dying.
<Fujitsu> Like, my gnomebaker thing last night had one or two conflicts, and I needed to drop a few patches from debian/patches.
<Fujitsu> Nothing too bad.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: where do i place this man page? and what to call it?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, I don't do manpages :P
* joejaxx is referencing the lintian warning he received
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: oh ok
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> oh goodue $AM GMT-5
<joejaxx> 4AM
<joejaxx> goodie*
<joejaxx> i have officially been up for 5 days:(
<azeem> Q-FUNK: what did you mean with mjray being the tip of the iceberg?
<StevenK> azeem: Maybe that Debian is full of sanctamonius little &^^%(*'s like him?
<StevenK> Present company and Ubuntu people excluded, of course. :-)
<Fujitsu> :P
<marcin_ant> hi guys
<ivoks> hi
<pygi> hey ivoks
<marcin_ant> I would like to ask about eclipse 3.2 on ubuntu
<ivoks> pygi: hi
<marcin_ant> are there any plans to provide this package soon?
<pygi> ivoks: I think Keybuk wanted to talk to you about wrong packages naming
<ivoks> pygi: ok
<Lathiat> wtf in bon echo theyve hidden the proxy settings right away
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> no one uses a proxy
<geser> could a MOTU please add a second ACK to bug 61955? thanks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61955 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request]  sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins 2.5.0~rc3-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61955
<Fujitsu> Hey \sh
<\sh> moins
<AnAnt> ping Mithrandir
<AnAnt> ping Gloubiboulga
<pirast> please please have a look at bug 57360 (it's a debian multimedia sync report) it would be nice to have the new version of dvdrip in edgy
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57360 in video-dvdrip "[debian-multimedia]  Sync dvdrip" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57360
<pirast> or tell me how to get the debian multimedia packages to multiverse
<pirast> :-)
<phanatic> good afternoon
<lfittl> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey lfittl
<lfittl> raphink: cdpr seems to be stuck in the REVU upload queue, could you take a quick look at it?
<raphink> sure I can
<raphink> I'll have a look at it
<lfittl> thanks :)
<raphink> lfittl: please upload again, a source package this time ;)
<lfittl> raphink: not my upload, but will redirect the message to the person who uploaded it ;)
<raphink> ah oki :)
<raphink> tell him too use "-S -sa"
<lfittl> yep, will do :)
<jsmidt> I maintian a few packages for Debian and I am slowly making the transition to wanting to help MOTU.  Right now I am exploring the ins and outs of Ubuntu to so how it functions.  Is there a Ubuntu version of incoming.debian.org so I can track incoming packages?
<pygi> jsmidt: everything is on LP
<jsmidt> Thanks, I will search launchpad and try to find it.
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: they tend to be organised by source.  ie.  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debmirror/
<Hobbsee> with associate bugs, overview, changelogs, etc
<jsmidt> pygi, Hobbsee , thanks that is what I was looking for, an Ubuntu version of incoming.debian.org and pqackages.qa.debian.org.
<Hobbsee> :)
<imbrandon> jsmidt: also the edgy-changes ML has them as they come in, as they are processed as they come in not once a day also
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: there are various other interesting features of launchpad, etc, about how to see the build queues, most of which are linked to the sources
<Hobbsee> true
* Fujitsu runs off to bed now.
<imbrandon> gnight Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> night Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> See ya, imbrandon, and thanks Hobbsee :)
<jsmidt> Lastly,  initially I planned on packaging some of the packages in Debian but not Ubuntu, then uploading them too revu.  Would you reccommend that approach?  I do want to do what you guys currently feel would be most helpful.
<imbrandon> well if its currently in debian, all it takes is a testbuild in edgy pbuilder and a sync request ( then acked by a MOTU )
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<Fujitsu> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Wow, hi imbrandon, lfittl, Fujitsu
<imbrandon> jsmidt: the only time it realy needs to goto revu is if its NEW to ubuntu and NOT in debian OR ...
<Fujitsu> Good evening, Mr. God sir.
<imbrandon> its in debian but needs changes to work on ubuntu
* bddebian cries
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> or you just need someone to upload it :P
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: hehe yea
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<jsmidt> imbrandon, thanks for the heads up.  So should I lay off the packages in Debian?  I was planning to upload them to revu since I don't have Upload privelages to Unviverse.  I will also track down some requested packages not in either distro.
<geser> is a MOTU around who could add a second ACK to bug 61955?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61955 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request]  sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins 2.5.0~rc3-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61955
<imbrandon> jsmidt: yea the ones not in either distro are fine for revu , as for the ones in debian you can file sync req
<bddebian> geser: Sure, give me a sec
<imbrandon> jsmidt: honestly its easiest just to find a MOTU or core-dev ( depending on where the packages are ) and use them as a "mentor"
<imbrandon> after a few days you'll catch the process, its fairly easy
<imbrandon> specialy coming from debian
<Fujitsu> It's pretty easy, yes :)
* Hobbsee wonders why you'd need a second for that
<imbrandon> but one thing to note also we are LATE in the release cycle soo something might have to wait
<jsmidt> imbrandon, thanks for the advice.  I will find a mentor.  I understand I may be too late for edgy, but hopefully I can be a big help for rdgy+1.
* Fujitsu watches the frost form on {un,mult}iverse.
<imbrandon> jsmidt: np , feel free to ping me too when i'm arround ;)
<bddebian> geser: You don't need any more than crimsun man :-)
<imbrandon> i dont have alot of time to 100% mentor someone but i'll be glad to help when i can
<imbrandon> jsmidt: ^
<geser> bddebian: doesn't new packages need two ACKs?
<imbrandon> jsmidt: and as for packages.qa.debian.org we really dont have an quiv but here is a good link to start off https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<imbrandon> most everything else we have in some form or another
<bddebian> geser: Not from Debian afaik
<imbrandon> geser: not coming from debian
<imbrandon> geser: only if its NEW NEW
<geser> crimsun told me yesterday new packages need two acks
<StevenK> geser: On REVU, yes.
<imbrandon> if they are already in debian they arent considered new
<imbrandon> and that only applies to REVU
* imbrandon waves at StevenK 
* StevenK waves sleepily back
<imbrandon> hehe
<geser> so I can subscribe ubuntu-archive to the bug?
<bddebian> Didn't crimsun do that?
<imbrandon> if a MOTU has ack'd it ( only one ) they should have subscribed u-a
<geser> no because he thought a second ack was needed
<bddebian> geser: Just did it
<geser> see bug 61949 for comparison
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61949 in Ubuntu "Please sync treeviewx 0.5.1-1 from Debian Sid (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61949
<geser> thanks
<bintut> hello all..
<bintut> anyone here running sparc32 ubuntu dapper?
<bintut> i would like to request for anyone who has an ubuntu dapper running on sparc32 machine to build the ltsp-4.2.x related packages for sparc32 ubuntu dapper
<bintut> i have some sun javastation jk thin clients but until now still of no use.  i want to make use of them using ltsp
<zul> i dont think there is sparc32 support only sparc64
<bintut> zul: i'm just hoping for anyone has an access to sparc32 to please build the LTSP 4.2 for ubuntu dapper sparc32
<zul> last i heard spacr32 doesnt even have smp support for 2.6 so i dont think anyone is running sparc32 but good luck
<bintut> zul: my sparc32 machines are thin clients.  i have some sun javastation jk (krups) thin clients and i want to make use of them using ltsp-4.2
<bddebian> Ack, apt-listbugs has release critical bugs too :-(
<bddebian> Hmm, why does gaim-meanwhile want gaim-dev << 1:2 ?
<lophyte> I don't think its compatible with gaim 2
<bddebian> lame
<lophyte> I tried building it but it failed
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> lophyte: So fix it ;-P
<lophyte> not sure how :P
<ivoks> only thing you need is 'vim' :)
<lophyte> vim fixes build errors?
<lophyte> :p
<Lathiat> bddebian: meanwhile was integrated into gaim2
<ivoks> sure
<Lathiat> lophyte:
<lophyte> ahh
<Lathiat> we should probably morgue it
<Lathiat> that was on my todo list a while ago but it scaped somewhere
<bddebian> Lathiat: Ah, OK, thx
<Lathiat> ah, the thing is
<Lathiat> its disabled in the gaim build
<Lathiat> because libmeanwhile is in universe
<Lathiat> but still the current package wont build against gaim2 so
<Lathiat> someone may want to look attempoting to push meanwhile to main
<Lathiat> gaim (1:2.0.0+beta3.1-1ubuntu1) edgy; urgency=low
<Lathiat> is the appropriate changelog that disabled it
<bmonty> bddebian: gaim-meanwhile is part of gaim 2.0
<Nafallo> bmonty: old news ;-)
<bddebian> bmonty: I heard that ;-)
<Nafallo> backlog etc... :-)
<xopher> How do I build the linux-restricted-modules for a specific kernel version?
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey bddebian
<fdsd> Hey guys, I am taking apart my initrd file, I have a bunch of startup scripts and folders and I dont know what they are for, could anyone explain?  they are casper, casper-bottom casper-premount init-bottom init-premount init-top local-botttom local-premount local-top nfs-bottom etc..  Any idea?
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3142  |  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3148  |  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3168
<nixternal> ^^ need revu'ing and/or uploading, thanks!
<Toadstool> wow
<Toadstool> nixternal: in koverartist, what about the rosetta patch Tonio_ suggested?
* nixternal didn't know how to do that ;)
<Toadstool> nixternal: just tested, looks like you only have to copy the patch from klibido
<Toadstool> (needs more testing though)
<nixternal> roger that..i will work on that tomorrow...time to go be a best man, well at least get ready ;)
<nixternal> thanks Toadstool!
<Toadstool> no problem
<lfittl> hrm, php-doc exists in debian non-free but not in ubuntu multiverse, does anybody know the reason?
<lfittl> we seem to have dropped it as soon as it went into non-free
<keescook> say, I'm playing with cdbs on a new package, and if I don't explicitly rm the debian/stamp-patch-* files, it won't rebuild.  (only happens on edgy, not dapper...)  is this a known bug?  should I just add a clean:: section for them?
<bddebian> Can someone with an edgy machine check for libgnustep-gui-dev for me?
<bddebian> Why is gnustep-gui a version behind but doesn't show up on the merges list?
<LaserJock> any MOTUs about?
<LaserJock> I swear I uploaded python-numpy last night
<LaserJock> but I can't find it anywhere
<Toadstool> hey LaserJock, did you receive the Accepted mail?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> nothing
<LaserJock> I didn't find it in NEW (it shouldn't be there anyway)
<LaserJock> and I don't see it on the pthon-numpy LP page
<Toadstool> hmm
<Toadstool> maybe you forgot to change unstable to edgy or something like that...
<LaserJock> Toadstool: but shouldn't I have gotten a rejected email?
<bddebian> rejects fail sometimes
<bddebian> Especially for unstable/edgy stuff
<LaserJock> doh, that's what it was
<LaserJock> but at least it was Fujitsu's fault ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> ok, let's try it again
<zul> LaserJock: ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-September/006290.html
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> now hopefully scipy and matplotlib will get built
<keescook> ah, dang.  I was shooting for a 0-byte lintian on REVU.  I didn't realize it wasn't edgy-aware.  :P
<LaserJock> heh
<keescook> now I'll just sit here anxious awaiting comments!  ;)
<bddebian> Who is William Grant?  Is that Fujitsu?
<LaserJock> yep
<bddebian> OK thx
<LaserJock> did he mess something up?
<LaserJock> :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: No, no, I was just looking at pcb then I realized he already requested a sync :-)
<bddebian> I've been replaced :'-(
<Nafallo> kik
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> like that's ever going to happen :-P
<bddebian> Nafallo: True, I guess you can't replace nothingness :-(
* Nafallo laughs and hugs bddebian 
<xopher> How do I build the linux-restricted-modules for a specific kernel version?
<xopher> sorry if Im spamming this question, but Id really want to know ;)
<bddebian> Build-depend on the specific kernel version source package?
<xopher> Ive tried, doesnt work
<xopher> still looks for the newer kernel even Ive set it not to
<bddebian> xopher: Are you doing this in a clean envrionment like a pbuilder or chroot?
<xopher> pbuilder
<bddebian> Hmm, over my head, sorry
* LaserJock starting to like mutt
<hikenboot> hello all---i removed all references to openoffice from ubuntu-meta then recompiled and installled it into a system running ubuntu 6.10 it installed ok...but when I try and remove openoffice it still trys and removes ubuntu-desktop which I was trying to avoid..any ideas?
<LaserJock> hikenboot: hi
<hikenboot> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hikenboot: how did you install ubuntu-desktop?
<hikenboot> this is getting frustraiting to say the least
<hikenboot> using dpkg after compiling it
<LaserJock> the first one?
<hikenboot> I had a fresh installed system in a vm and tried replacing ubuntu-desktop with one compiled from ubuntu-meta with the references to openoffice taken out figuring this would solve the dependency on openoffice
<LaserJock> edgy or dapper?
<hikenboot> 6.10
<hikenboot> edgy
<LaserJock> I'm thinking that perhaps there is some "behind the scenes" stuff going on
<LaserJock> is there a reason you want to keep ubuntu-desktop
<hikenboot> because it screws up subsiquent package removals and installs
<hikenboot> strange thing is I type apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and it still wants to install openoffice
<LaserJock> right
<hikenboot> somthing else must be referencing openoffice
<LaserJock> hikenboot: run dpkg -I on your .deb
<LaserJock> and look at the dependecies
<hikenboot> ok
<crimsun> can anyone reproduce bug 61943?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61943 in acroread "adobe reader won't start" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61943
<Kream> I have a launchpad account, yet can't find ubiquity in launchpad. I want to translate ubiquity. How do I do this?
<crimsun> translations would be rosetta
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3098 , a KDE Iconset (kde-icons-crystal-diamond)
<Kream> crimsun:  thanks. i think i'm on rosetta already.
<bddebian> Well shit, osgcal FTBFSs
<chillywilly> can anyone help? There's some error in the pre install script for lvm2 for amd64
<crimsun> ->#-kernel
<chillywilly>  #ubuntu-kernel?
<crimsun> yep
<chillywilly> k
<ryanakca> chillywilly: I used to have that error... run update & dist-upgrade to fix it
<chillywilly> I did
<ryanakca> no clue then :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-24
<chillywilly> ok, where's the location that the package scripts and such are temporarily unpacked to?
<chillywilly>  /var/cache/....something or another
<chillywilly>  /var/lib/dpkg ?
<crimsun> .../info
<camh> [dapper]  are there any plans to upgrade totem-xine in universe to match the totem dependency in main? (1.4.1-0ubuntu4 -> 1.4.3-0ubuntu1)
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know
<crimsun> ``apt-cache madison totem-xine''
<camh> totem-xine | 1.4.1-0ubuntu4 | http://au.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
<imbrandon> totem-xine | 1.4.1-0ubuntu4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
<imbrandon> looks to be there
<imbrandon> totem | 1.4.1-0ubuntu4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Sources
<imbrandon> looks to match to me
<camh> totem (in main) depends on totem-xine (>= 1.4.3-0ubuntu1)
<minghua> what is the UVF exception policy now?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/UpstreamVersionFreeze seems awfully out of date
<crimsun> minghua: for universe or main?
<minghua> universe
<crimsun> minghua: we're (universe, that is) not frozen until the 28th.
<minghua> oh, cool
<minghua> thanks crimsun
<crimsun> (hence the flurry of activity in the past couple weeks)
<camh>      totem | 1.4.3-0ubuntu1 | http://au.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/main Sources
<crimsun> camh: probably because the -updates binary didn't carry over into universe
<crimsun> camh: you'd need to ask a release manager
<crimsun> mdz has been idle 21 hours 36 mins 11 secs
<crimsun> kamion has been idle 14 hours 40 mins 9 secs
<LaserJock> hmm, are depwaits automatically retried or do I need to ask  an archive admin to give them back?
<crimsun> try during the week.
<crimsun> LaserJock: best to poke infinity
<LaserJock> k
<camh> it would help if I had universe on my dapper-updates sources.list. Looks like it will upgrade now.
<LaserJock> I guess perhaps i should have done that a bit better
<crimsun> camh: heh, we've all pebkaced at some point
<LaserJock> even the might dieties ? ;-)
<LaserJock> *mighty
* bddebian has no idea what LaserJock and crimsun are talking about :-)
<minghua> Hmm, sorry for being newbie again - but where is the howto for sync request?
<LaserJock> so essentially a NEW package has to go through NEW twice? once for the source and once for the binaries
<geser> minghua: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html lists the current policy for sync request (2nd topic of this mail)
<minghua> geser: thanks!
<minghua> I remember receiving such a mail but forgot which list (and I am away from my inbox now) :-P
<keescook> anyone want to review an icculus game I packaged for REVU?  no better way to spend saturday than shooting badguys.  ;)
* minghua wonders what's wrong with librarian.launchpad.net
<minghua> my download speed from there is like below 1KB/s
<ryanakca> ouch
<crimsun> my school severely rate-limits *.ubuntu.com, *.canonical.com, and *.launchpad.net
<Fujitsu> Wha!?
<imbrandon> crimsun: ouch
<crimsun> apparently our "intelligent" gateway does traffic analysis and attempts to choke heavily accessed sites. Go figure.
<imbrandon> crimsun: any good reason ? do they run ( or could you convince them ) to mirror ?
<imbrandon> ahh that sucks
<crimsun> our administrator seems intent to ignore sanity, too, since it appears to integrate wonderfully with Windows
<imbrandon> ohhh house to myself /me put in the "KISS - Dressed to Kill" album and cranks it up while qt-designer loads
<imbrandon> hahaha crimsun
<imbrandon> figures
<bddebian> KISS? Blech
<bddebian> Throw in some Metallica baby :-)
<tseng> Metallica snore
<tseng> throw in some Isis
<imbrandon> heh, KISS rules ;)
<imbrandon> ( as far as old rock )
<tseng> "old rock" is Zepplin and Sabbath
<bddebian> Yeah
<tseng> KISS will be forgotten, hopefully
<imbrandon> haha kiss has been arround almost 30 years
* tseng tickles imbrandon 
<imbrandon> doubtfull
<crimsun> bddebian gave rock n' roll to you, too, tseng
<imbrandon> haha crimsun classic
<tseng> so classic that I don't get it
<Fujitsu> +1 crimsun.
<crimsun> tseng: a play on god gave rock n' roll to you
<imbrandon> tseng: there is a kiss song name "god gave rock and roll to you "
<tseng> oh
<tseng> I would know that
* LaserJock puts on some Britney Spears
* imbrandon is proud of his kiss collection, i have the 12inch dolls , tons of original vynal , every cd produced , heheh </geeksness>
* imbrandon even has a 1976 kiss pinball machine in his basement
<xopher> Hi! Any ideas on what I should do if I wish to build l-r-m for a specific kernel-version? Ive tried, well everything I can come up with, and it still compiles according to the newest available, instead of the one I want.
<xopher> Using pbuilder to compile btw
<minghua> okay I've done a sync request as bug #62101
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62101 in qgo "Please sync qgo (universe) 1.5.1-1 from Debian (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62101
<imbrandon> xopher: ->#-kernel could probably let you know
<imbrandon> although they lilely arrount alive till weekdays
<imbrandon> likely
<minghua> can anyone look at it to make sure I've done thing right?  and do I need to assign it to some one special to get it processed?
<imbrandon> minghua: normaly you would just as a MOTU to ack it and they will subscribe u-a if nessesary
<imbrandon> ask*
<minghua> imbrandon: I see, so some MOTU need to build it in edgy and ack it?  then it can be subscribed to u-a?
<imbrandon> minghua: yup
<LaserJock> minghua: aren't you a MOTU?
<crimsun> he is
<minghua> it seems I should write a wiki page about this procedure
<crimsun> all he needs to do is sub ubuntu-archive
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, but I don't have a edgy environment to build it
<xopher> imbrandon, thanks Ill see if they know anything
<imbrandon> ohh your a motu ? heh /me dident know
<minghua> so I think I should play it safe and ask another MOTU to ack it?
<crimsun> not necessary
<crimsun> as a member of ubuntu-dev, you're already trusted for it
<imbrandon> not really since there wasnt a delta
<imbrandon> just sub u-a
<imbrandon> and your golden
<minghua> imbrandon: a MOTU without an edgy environment is not even as good as an ordinary user :-)  I appreciate your help
<imbrandon> hehe dchroot ?
<minghua> good, then I'll subscribe it to u-a, if things break, I suppose I can go through the trouble and fix it...
<imbrandon> thats how i do my sid stuff ;)
<crimsun> this is so ugly. Why is there a .so in libfooX (instead of libfoo-dev)?!
<imbrandon> you mean a symlink to .so.X.X.X or .....
<crimsun> yes
* Fujitsu kicks scipy upstream a bit.
<LaserJock> :-)
<minghua> crimsun: sounds a bug to me if the .so is a symlink instead of a file
<Fujitsu> It can't be a good idea to include i386 binaries in the tarball, and then INSTALL THEM!
<imbrandon> haha
<minghua> broken build system?  or debian/rules doesn't run "make clean" in clean target?
<Fujitsu> It just has those binaries in an example directory, and they don't get cleaned... So broken build system.
<Fujitsu> 0.5.1-3 introduced two lines in debian/rules to get rid of them.
<Fujitsu> Of course, they were hardcoded to python versions.
<Fujitsu> So introduce python << 2.3 or >> 2.4, and you get nasty explosions on non-x86 buildds.
<minghua> our MOTU wiki is so broken...  the MOTU/SyncRequests page redirects to some package-in-working table for dapper
* LaserJock hears the sound of a volunteer wiki fixer ;-)
<imbrandon> broken , no , outdated , yes , wanna fix it ? hehehe
<minghua> LaserJock: sure, resurrecting MOTU/SyncRequests sounds good to you?
<minghua> or should I choose another name?
<imbrandon> for the proceedure ?
<Fujitsu> We need an automated system like that integrated with MoM... Otherwise it's not maintainable.
<imbrandon> there is a /MOTU/Proceedures/blah stuff
<imbrandon> minghua: ^^
<LaserJock> ah yes, I remember that page
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you are very welcome to write one :-)
<minghua> imbrandon: good, I'll look in there then
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, if I had the MoM source I would.
<Fujitsu> Who manage MoM?
<LaserJock> Keybuck
<imbrandon> keybuk
<Fujitsu> OK!
<crimsun> my god, this is even more broken than I imagined!
<LaserJock> it's probably in his people.ubuntu.com somewhere
<minghua> basicly I want it accessible from MOTU/Documentation, since that's what our channel topic says
<LaserJock> ahh
* LaserJock cries
<StevenK> LaserJock: people.u.c and merges.u.c have two different IPs
<imbrandon> minghua: sounds good, just ping LaserJock about any major changes i would assume since he's out psudo doc wiki motu-aholic guy ;)
<imbrandon> s/out/our
<minghua> imbrandon: and s/psudo/pseudo/ ?
<imbrandon> yea shush ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> crimsun: what lib ?
<crimsun> libexiv2-0.10
<minghua> wiki people:  there is no MOTU/Procedures, only MOTU/Processes
<imbrandon> minghua: yea my mistake
<imbrandon> i was going from memory
<imbrandon> processes
<minghua> imbrandon: no problem, just to make sure I am looking at the correct place
<imbrandon> right right
<LaserJock> StevenK: put he should have his source in a bzr repo in people.u.c I would imagine
<LaserJock> s/put/but/
<Fujitsu> He doesn't.
<imbrandon> yea then you'll probably have to ask him about it
<imbrandon> you talking about makein a page for syncs like MoM ?
<hikenboot> LaserJock, it doesnt mention anything about openoffice is there a way to check the chain of dependencies of packages it does require in a tree fashion to see what requires openoffice?
<LaserJock> well, what was that script that Q-FUNK was talking about
<LaserJock> hikenboot: you can do apt-get rdepends <package> to see what depends on that package
<Fujitsu> I'll ask him at some point.
<minghua> what is this automated system Fujitsu is trying to implement?
<minghua> from context it looks like related to wiki?
<LaserJock> I think Fujitsu is trying to automate sync requests, right?
<imbrandon> some of them atleaste
<minghua> MOTU/Processes/SyncRequests sounds good?
<minghua> LaserJock, imbrandon: ^^^
<imbrandon> looks ok to me
<LaserJock> minghua: ok, and what are you going to put on there?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: the contents of those emails i would imagine
<imbrandon> telling how to file syncs
<minghua> LaserJock: what I just asked from the channel
<LaserJock> k, sounds good
<LaserJock> we really, really, really need to clean up our wiki
<minghua> yes, what imbrandon said, and that your need a MOTU to ack it, then subscribe the bug to u-a (these are not explained in the mail)
<LaserJock> we have over 100 wiki pages
<LaserJock> waaay too much
<imbrandon> well the MOTU will sub the u-a ( but your a motu so you could do it ) hehe
<LaserJock> most of them are outdated
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea i did some cleanup a while back and grew bored so i took a break and never went back
<imbrandon> bad imbrandon brad
<imbrandon> bad*
<LaserJock> we need to really redo our MOTU/ page as well
<minghua> imbrandon: does launchpad forbid a non-MOTU to subscribe u-a to a bug?
<crimsun> no, it doesn't, which is not necessarily a good thing
<imbrandon> minghua: no but its a good idea to let the MOTU do it once its been acd'd so it dosent spam the u-a list with changes
* minghua figured that launchpad won't be so smart :-P
<minghua> imbrandon: sure, I'll make that clear on the wiki
<crimsun> yesterday we were discussing bringing a resolution before the TB that would permit Debian maintainers to request syncs without an MOTU ACK
<imbrandon> crimsun: that sounds good to me, as i have atleaste 2 maintainers that email me when they ask for syncs to ack them
<minghua> crimsun: that only applies to packages without ubuntu specific changes, I suppose?
<imbrandon> s/maintainers/DD's
* minghua is sad at imbrandon's correction :-(
<LaserJock> I wonder if it might be a good idea to put some effort into LP-interaction scripts
<crimsun> as far as I know DDs already have that understanding
<crimsun> (I could be misled, of course)
<imbrandon> i dunno, i always do it just becouse we ( me and them ) thought it was required
<imbrandon> heh
<jsmidt> I've been checking Launchpad and the wiki, I am trying to find a page of requested packages for Ubuntu.  Is there a page devoted to this?
<imbrandon> its always packages without ubuntu deltas
<crimsun> yep, straight syncs
<imbrandon> jsmidt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates ??
<jsmidt> imbrandon, that would be it, thanks
<crimsun> the more general one being https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<crimsun> check WNPP in Debian first
<imbrandon> and mentors
<Fujitsu> Back...
<hikenboot> LaserJock, I am not sure how to interpret the results of the rdepends it contains  a symbol similar to |  does this mean an either or dependency or somthing?
<jsmidt> crimsun, I have checked wnpp, I've filled a few of those requests already
<crimsun> (it would be slightly overkill to file them in Ubuntu, then)
<crimsun> we need to shift from NEW to bugfixes. It's already getting really late.
<imbrandon> really
<Fujitsu> I'm thinking it would be a good idea to have something like SyncRequests embedded in MoM, so MOTUs can say `I'm doing this', or `This isn't possible because main is frozen and this depends on a new package in main', or general comments/statuses like that... That way people can tell if a MOTU has already looked at the package and deemed it not possible to merge/sync, and thus minimise work duplication.
<jsmidt> crimsun, I guess that is true, I am just trying to get my bearing around the Ubuntu side of things.  So you guys out all the package requests in wnpp?
<jsmidt> Or is that where people are told to request packages for Ubuntu too?
<crimsun> jsmidt: if the package doesn't already exist in Debian (also not in WNPP), then it makes sense to request in Debian first
<crimsun> people do also request in Ubuntu, but, personally, encouraging it to be filed in Debian first benefits all Debian-based distros
* minghua wonders why the wiki editing page has a link to HelpOnFormatting but not HelpOnEditing
<minghua> where can I report a bug against wiki?
<crimsun> isn't the wiki editable?
<LaserJock> minghua: bug the doc team about it
<LaserJock> there might be a reason for it
<azeem> it's the same for wiki.debian.org AFAIK
<azeem> probably a wiki default?
<minghua> LaserJock: aren't you in the doc team? ;-)
<minghua> crimsun: no, I am  talking about the page with an editing window when you do the actual editing
<minghua> I don't think that's a page can be edited by mortals
<minghua> anyway that's a minor issue
<LaserJock> minghua: yes, but I dont do a lot of wiki work
<hikenboot> LaserJock, I am not sure how to interpret the results of the rdepends it contains  a symbol similar to |  does this mean an either or dependency or somthing?
<imbrandon> hikenboot: most likely , | means or
<minghua> crap, my edit got lost when I tried to preview and the preview page doesn't load and I pressed my browser back button
* minghua curses slow net connection
<crimsun> are you on a nice 28.8 kbps dialup like I am?
<LaserJock> yuck
<LaserJock> I was on 28.8 at christmas
* lupine_85 pats his 8Mbps BB
<LaserJock> I could hardly even read my mail
<minghua> "doesn't" is correct English, right?  (xchat-gnome's spellchecker highlights it)
<Fujitsu> I'm now on 64kbps... Better than my 28.8 a two weeks ago.
<Fujitsu> minghua, yes,
<crimsun> yes it is
<minghua> I am on a supposed "512 Kbps" DSL line
<minghua> (I should really call my DSL company, the connection has been bad on and off for almost a month now)
* imbrandon hugs his 8mb/1mb 
* LaserJock spears imbrandon from Reno
<crimsun> I think I'll move into a coffee shop w/ DSL
<imbrandon> ;)
* zul dos imbrandon 8mb/1mb
<imbrandon> nooooooo heh
<minghua> I think I'll do my wiki editing when I have a better connection
<minghua> xchat-gnome says my lag is ~20s now
<imbrandon> wow
<zul> thats nothin
<zul> i had up to 143 seconds a couple of times
* lupine_85 can get 180 seconds then it restarts the conn
<lupine_85> line is a bit flaky every now and again ;)
* lupine_85 wonders if his package on revu needs ripping to shreds some more
<zul> heh...i feel good about this build
<imbrandon> xen ?
<zul> yep 2.6.17 kernel
* lupine_85 has a xen virtual server
<imbrandon> nice
<lupine_85> dapper guest OS :D
<imbrandon> brb
<zul> edgy git as a base so we get all the nice little drivers and updates
<lupine_85> btw, is there any specific reason why the motu mailing list is getting spammed so much?
<LaserJock> it is?
<zul> or the revu list?
<lupine_85> the revu one, sorry
<lupine_85> e.g. 12:37 today - [Motu-reviewers]   [-------] 
<LaserJock> ah yes, the revu one does seem to get a lot
<LaserJock> maybe it's on Microsoft's ML hitlist
<LaserJock> "what?!? we can't allow community contribution in Linux!"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<minghua> actually now I am looking at it, xchat-gnome resets the lag counter at 30s
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> so I have no idea what that means
<Fujitsu> OH NO.
<Fujitsu> That last email on -devel...
<zul> LaserJock: i bet it has something to do with viagra
<minghua> (which explains when my impression is that average lag is ~20s :-)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: the aliened OO.o one?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yeah.
<imbrandon> ohh gawd
<LaserJock> yeah, that's sure the way to not get flamed ;-)
<imbrandon> on the -devel list no doubt
<hikenboot> apt-cache rdepends ttf-bitstream-vera has an interesting chain of dependencies including  openoffice
<LaserJock> "who cares about updates? just alien your way to the lates crack" :-)
* minghua recognizes the spam title :-)  (it's Chinese)
<minghua> zul: no, it has nothing to do with viagra, or drugs in general
<imbrandon> LaserJock: and the funny thing is , they probably dont have a "good" reason to update , other than "its a new version"
<LaserJock> yes, I must confess I was much that way before I started working on Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I always assumed the latest possible was the best
<imbrandon> heh me too before not to long ago
<imbrandon> its part of that MS seeping though
<LaserJock> now that I see software/distro development in action I have a little better understanding of things
* imbrandon likes new crack sometimes though ;)
<imbrandon> when there is time to play with it
<imbrandon> like kde4 on osx, its utterly useless for the most part, but its fun to see the compiler churn away ;)
<LaserJock> well, I stopped "using" my Ubuntu computers about the time I became a MOTU
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<crimsun> what do you use instead, then?
<imbrandon> i keep one i "use" the rest are play machines ;)
<LaserJock> well, I spend ~12 hrs of my day on OS X
<LaserJock> but even if it was Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I wouldn't "use" it really either
<LaserJock> all I do is develop
<LaserJock> my work doesn't really demand computer use
<LaserJock> and I'm never home
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> so the only reason I'm on a computer is to work on Ubuntu
<imbrandon> from osx ;)
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> ssh is your friend
<LaserJock> but since I ssh into my Ubuntu boxen, I'm technically working on Ubuntu too
<imbrandon> yea heh
<LaserJock> I have one work computer that I have edgy on that I use for pbuilding
<imbrandon> when i'm on osx its with a brower running and a terminal, everything else i run from ssh
<imbrandon> browser*
<LaserJock> well, I'm sad to say it in a way, but I really like OS X
<Fujitsu> Why do you guys use OS X?
<Fujitsu> Ah..
<Fujitsu> Why?
<LaserJock> I use OS X basically because my advisor bought everybody in the lab an iMac
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: honestly? its a no hassle *nix box, stuff "just works"
<LaserJock> and kinda expects us to use OS X
<Fujitsu> Ow..
<LaserJock> I'm probably more productive on OS X
<imbrandon> ubuntu is very very very very close to just working though, but thats why we are here , to make it that way ;)
<LaserJock> it's fast, looks nice, has all the features I need, lots of open source software
<crimsun> I'm far more productive on a Debian-based distro, because I'm at least partly familiar w/ its(their) quirks and workarounds
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> plus it gives you good perspective to use other os's once in a while
<LaserJock> it's taken me 6months+ to get used to OS X
<crimsun> for instance, I don't even use bash completion; I just use asterisks
<imbrandon> heh crimsun in that respect i'm lost on windows
<LaserJock> well, windows is absolutely horrible at work
<Fujitsu> It's great, I can't bear to use Windows. The command-line functionality is almost NULL, and it's just so inflexible.
<LaserJock> printing is aweful
<LaserJock> networking isn't that great
<imbrandon> yea printing SUCKS on any OS imho
<crimsun> Fujitsu: vastly improved w/ Vista's Monad (at least from reading the O'Reilly book)
<Fujitsu> crimsun, aha... I'm still not going to use it though :P
<crimsun> I'll gladly use it and putty.
<LaserJock> at least printing is a breeze with OS X and Ubuntu
<LaserJock> with Windows it's a nightmare
<imbrandon> LaserJock: please come setup my printer/network the hehe
<imbrandon> i have all ubuntu and osx boxen and cant get printing to work the way i want for the fskin life of me
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah
<LaserJock> apparently I"m in some printing twilight zone
<imbrandon> heh honestly i have given up on it
<LaserJock> I've never had much luck with Windows printing
<LaserJock> but with Ubuntu it's sooo easy
<LaserJock> and OS X is second easiest
<imbrandon> yea i dont like it on any os, its all tooo hard, should be to me just 2 clicks and done
<bddebian> Damn perl4caml FTBFSs too
<LaserJock> well, it's more or less like that for me
<imbrandon> LaserJock: do you share 1 printer and many boxes ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> hrm , i might pick your brain some other day
<LaserJock> at work we have a laserjet with jet direct
<imbrandon> serouisly i have given up on it, i tried for 3 weeks to get it right
<LaserJock> at home I have a printer hooked up to my desktop
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I've found they work really well.
<crimsun> imbrandon: mind if I direct a user running the dapper-backports of amarok 1.4.3 to you?
<imbrandon> i can barely get the localcomputer to print
<LaserJock> that I print to from my wireless laptop as well
<imbrandon> crimsun: sure
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what kind of printer do you have?
<imbrandon> hp psc500
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> how odd
<Fujitsu> I've got a psc1210, works fine.
<LaserJock> I've always stuck to HP printers and I've never had a problem
<imbrandon> yea i get it to work localy but sharing sucks
<LaserJock> I've got a psc1350
* lupine_85 strokes his psc2355
<imbrandon> i cant print from windows boxesn or osx or other ubuntu boxen
<LaserJock> how odd
<imbrandon> really ANY remomte
<LaserJock> I can print from XP or Ubuntu to XP or Ubuntu
<LaserJock> both machines dual-boot
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> maybe its a kde printer setup thing
<imbrandon> i dunno
<LaserJock> hmm, could be
<imbrandon> the box with the printer only runs kde
<LaserJock> I think I've mostly set them up from the gnome config
<crimsun> I think it's a test for the raging ubuntuaholic MOTU
<LaserJock> I actually need to set mine up in KDE
<imbrandon> infact the only gnome install i have is a test breezy partition on a amd64
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> test?
<LaserJock> it's called "The wife need to print her recipes NOW"
<crimsun> like I said, a test. :P
<LaserJock> yep, the wife test
<imbrandon> heheh
<LaserJock> there is only 1 site that keeps me from Windows freedom
<crimsun> if you say it's Flash-based...
<LaserJock> stupid topsecretrecipes.com
<imbrandon> LaserJock: whats the url ?
<LaserJock> flash
<imbrandon> heh
<bddebian> Damn I'm having no luck with merges today :-(
<crimsun> bddebian: how?
<LaserJock> well, I installed flash, but the site refuses to recognize it
<bddebian> crimsun: A lot of FTBFSs
<LaserJock> bddebian: obviously you aren't working on the right merges ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: url ?
<crimsun> requires a newer version than we have
<crimsun> Flash 8+
<LaserJock> imbrandon: www.topsecretrecipes.com
<bddebian> crimsun: Not for perl4caml anyway
<bddebian> Oh, nm
<LaserJock> crimsun: ah, is that the problem
<bddebian> LaserJock: No shix :-)
<LaserJock> there was another site that had a problem, but I was able to click a "enter anyway" link and it was fine
<LaserJock> this one has no such link and you can't do anything non-flash
<LaserJock> stupid web designers >:(
<imbrandon> heh well flash 9 will be out soonish
<imbrandon> ;(
<Fujitsu> Should LP really be showing bugs that are closed in Ubuntu but open in Debian in motuscience's +subscribedbugs?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> our friend filed a complaint about that with the LP guys
<LaserJock> techincally the Debian task is still open so it shows up
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if there was something in we could do in the UI to get rid of them
<LaserJock> heh, I've made it the whole day without using thunderbird
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe
<LaserJock> now I just need to work out where my @ubuntu.com mail is going
<crimsun> Preferred e-mail on LP
<Fujitsu> Do I have to ping someone to get my @ubuntu.com address?
<LaserJock> crimsun: if only :-)
<crimsun> Fujitsu: you're a member already, so it should be automagic.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: if its been synced it should be lp-id@ubuntu.com
<Fujitsu> I've been a member for 18 days, and when I tried two days ago it still didn't exit.
<Fujitsu> *exist
<LaserJock> I switched my preffered email address (gmail needs procmail support ;-) )
<LaserJock> but now LP mail goes to my preffered
<LaserJock> but @ubuntu.com goes to the old one
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea it has to be manualy synced, i had that problem
<imbrandon> its not automatic
<LaserJock> I've done it in the past
<LaserJock> I wonder what happened
<imbrandon> they asked me to file a bug against lp and ask for a sync
<imbrandon> one sec lemme see if i can find my old bug
<LaserJock> yeah, kiko sent a rt ticket for me
<imbrandon> yea
<Fujitsu> Bug #56305, I presume.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56305 in launchpad "email alias sync" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56305
<imbrandon> yea thats it
<minghua> we need to file a bug to sync @ubuntu.com address?
<Fujitsu> minghua, looks like it.
<imbrandon> file a bug like that and subscribe canonical-sysadmins
<imbrandon> LaserJock / Fujitsu  ^^
<minghua> . o O { bugs are cheap these days... }
<Fujitsu> OK, I shall. Thanks imbrandon :)
<LaserJock> gotta love how LP is moving forward ;-)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> it /should/ be automatic imho but i guess they have their resaons
<LaserJock> well, it's more likely a bug
<LaserJock> \o/ my email is fixed
<Fujitsu> :)
<Fujitsu> motureviewers is obsolete, right?
<LaserJock> hmm
<crimsun> not really
<LaserJock> the difference between motureviewers and ubuntu-universe-sponsors is a little fuzzy
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I can't really see a difference.
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping?
<imbrandon> pong
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yay \o/
<lastnode> imbrandon, could we get those bots in #upstream? the mailing list is being a pita, and it'd be great to have logs to point people to. no hurry, just thought i'd remind you.
<imbrandon> lastnode: yea i'll ping Seveas when he is awake about it, its not exactly his timezone atm ;)
<imbrandon> still 4am where he is ;)
<lastnode> sure, thanks imbrandon. ill say you asked me to?
<imbrandon> no no i can ping him for you, but it will just be a few hours
* minghua wonders why du doesn't has a one-letter abbreviation for --max-depth=
<imbrandon> or your more than welcome to, just tell him what your upto and why you want the bots in there etc
<lastnode> imbrandon, no, ill leave it to you. :-)
<lastnode> much thanks
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> np
<bddebian> Damnit, what man level is for functions such as stat()?
<StevenK> 2
<bddebian> Hmm
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% man 2 stat
<StevenK> Reformatting stat(2), please wait...
<StevenK> etc
<bddebian> Hmm, I get nothing :-(
<minghua> 2   System calls (functions provided by the kernel)
<Fujitsu> Have you manpages-dev?
<minghua> makes sense
<StevenK> Is manpages-dev installed?
* StevenK curses Fujitsu.
<bddebian> Hmm, probably not :-)
<Fujitsu> Nyahah.
* StevenK uses his super-leet MOTU and DD powahs to kick Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> StevenK, you're the Australian DD here... Who in Melbourne can I get my key signed by?
<Fujitsu> Hey, I'll hopefully be a MOTU soon :P
* bddebian uses his super-l33t idiot powers to block
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Let me query db.d.o
<Fujitsu> I already looked, but it just says there in Aus, no specifics I can find.
<StevenK> Yes, but you don't have a login.
<Fujitsu> Ah, true.
<StevenK> I can get the specifics
<minghua> see, super-leet powahs :-)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Tyson Richard Dowd <tyson@debian.org>, with a postcode of 3068
<StevenK> Helen Faulkner <helen@debian.org>
<StevenK> Chris Leishman <masklin@debian.org>
* Fujitsu gets a postcode searching facility open.
<StevenK> Nathan Scott <nathans@debian.org>, in Camberwell
<StevenK> Hrrrrm
<Fujitsu> Camberwell... That's not bad.
* Fujitsu is off to lunch now.
<LaserJock> minghua: on OS X it is -d for --max-depth
<imbrandon> hrm you know what, i was sitting here thingking. if i had enough money i would buy the IP for mp3's and flash and gpl the technologies, but honestly would that even help
<crimsun> somewhat but not ultimately.
<crimsun> to fix things we'd still need access to the source.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm sure that's crossed Mark's mind
<imbrandon> heh probably
<imbrandon> mp3 IP probably wouldent be that expensive ( relitively ) but i bet adobe want a penny for flash
<LaserJock> mhm
<imbrandon> wasnt a pretty penny*
<imbrandon> wants , gah i give up
<minghua> LaserJock: your sure it's not a BSD thing instead of OS X thing?
<imbrandon> command line osx tools are bsd based
<LaserJock> but then you could just pay the same amount of money for opensource development
<imbrandon> LaserJock: very true
<imbrandon> but that wouldent get arroudn the mp3 patent issues
<ryanakca> can someone please review the kde-icons-crystal-diamond http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3238 ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sure, spending money on development and promotion of an open source alternative
<LaserJock> like .ogg or something
<imbrandon> there is the thing to getting people to switch though liek recreate all flash pages in something else and converting music collections and then getting portable players etc etc etc etc
<imbrandon> man it just sucks
<imbrandon> i wish i was a bajillionaire heh
<LaserJock> I don't, really
<LaserJock> millionare would work ;-)
<imbrandon> ;)
* Laser_away takes his cheap butt to Walmart, bbib
<imbrandon> heheh okie
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Laser_away: Don't you know that Wal-Mart is Eviiil? :-)
<minghua> some one needs to lobby Apple to support .ogg on iPods :-(
<imbrandon> or promote rockbox/ipl
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> my ipod nano plays ogg and mpegs ;)
<imbrandon> and doom and , well anything the 75mhz arm processor can handle running on a linux 2.4 kernel
<bddebian> If I do foo = stat(bar, baz);  and I just want to make sure the file exists can I just if (foo) ?
<imbrandon> test -e foo ?
<bddebian> Uhm, in C? :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<lupine_85> doom on an ipod?
<lupine_85> now that is cool :)
<imbrandon> doom, hexen, 007, tetris , pong, lots of games ;)
<imbrandon> lupine_85: http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/kubuntu_on_ipod_nano.jpg
<imbrandon> and http://ipodlinux.org/Doom
<imbrandon> ( video at the bottom )
<StevenK> imbrandon: You need a better shot of that.
<lupine_85> cool :)
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea that one is quite blurry , but my camera sucks
<StevenK> Buy a better camera. :-P
<imbrandon> hehe
* StevenK hugs his Canon IXUS 30
* tseng hugs his Canon Digital Rebel XT
<imbrandon> mine some cheap one from walmart for like 20$
<StevenK> Gee, I wonder why it was blurry
<imbrandon> kodack easy share something
<imbrandon> hehe
<StevenK> Ahhh, my grandmother has that camera!
<imbrandon> i dont take many pictures ;)
<StevenK> Now, that says something.
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> Er, grandmother in law, even
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> easy share dx4530, just looked
<imbrandon> cheapie ;)
<imbrandon> http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/kodak-easyshare-dx4530_reviews.html
<imbrandon> wow that says $280
<imbrandon> i got mine for like 20 or 30 heh
<imbrandon> wow that is nuts , maybe mine was mis priced when i bought it
<imbrandon> becouse they all online say over $200 bux
* imbrandon shrugs
<StevenK> Or it fell off a truck.
<StevenK> Hence the blurrynes
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<StevenK> Er, blurryness
<imbrandon> hrm i'm trying to run that "top ten" command Mithrandir put on his blog and it only returns "1 History" ....
<imbrandon> history 1|awk '{print $2}'|awk 'BEGIN {FS="|"} {print $1}'|sort|uniq -c | sort -nr |head -n 10
<Fujitsu> Same.
<imbrandon> and bash gurus know whats wrong ?
<bddebian> Yeah, that's hideous :-)
<imbrandon> err cli/dash ;)
<imbrandon> lol bddebian
<StevenK> Drop the 1
<StevenK> history | awk
<imbrandon> ahh
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's better.
<StevenK> Stupid bash shell
<Fujitsu> Thankyou almighty StevenK :)
<Fujitsu> Borne Again Shell Shell!
<Fujitsu> *Bourne
<StevenK> Oh damn, I need to stop helping the common folk.
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> heh thanks StevenK
<imbrandon> i hate bash scripting tbh
<imbrandon> but its usefull at times
<StevenK> I love shell scripting
<imbrandon> well i love what you can do, i hate trying to understand it
<Fujitsu> cd, ls, vim, apt-cache, sudo, debuild, mkdir, debdiff, mv, ssh.
<StevenK> Expect when I want something that would be easy if I had HASHES
<imbrandon> cd , ls , sudo , nano , mplayer , rm , make , debuild , cp , upgrade ( upgrade is a shell script for apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade )
<Fujitsu> urgh, nano.
<imbrandon> but this is only a week only install
<imbrandon> sooo
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yup the editor of kings
<Fujitsu> What would be nice would be elimination of sudo from the start of things.
<imbrandon> i should have run it on my old install
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Then pipe it through sed
<Fujitsu> StevenK, I suppose so.
<imbrandon> s/sudo//
<StevenK> s/sudo //
<imbrandon> s/sudo\ //
* imbrandon ducks
<Fujitsu> Or s/^sudo //
<StevenK> history |awk '{print $2}'| sed -e 's/sudo //' | awk 'BEGIN {FS="|"} {print $1}'|sort|uniq -c | sort -nr |head -n 10
<Fujitsu> Ah, -e, I forgot that.
<StevenK> -e isn't required
<StevenK> And I'm also unsure if I've put it in the right place
<Fujitsu> Hm, it's still not working.
<imbrandon> that dont work
<imbrandon> probably after the second awk
<Fujitsu> There we go.
<Fujitsu> No, like so:
<minghua> Hmm, I have "exit" at number three
<Fujitsu> history | sed 's/sudo //' | awk '{print $2}'| sed -e 's/sudo //' | awk 'BEGIN {FS="|"} {print $1}'|sort|uniq -c | sort -nr |head -n 10
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> I left something in there, the second one shouldn't be there.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24606
* imbrandon is just waiting on a email/blogpost/something from sabdfl about the new name 
<imbrandon> hehe
<Plug> imbrandon: the new name?
<imbrandon> of edgy+1 , its getting close to time to announce it ( based on past announcements )
<imbrandon> historicly its been about a month before the release
<imbrandon> and we're what 33 days out ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Well, go on, send Mark an email to hurry him up.
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon dosent think so ;)
<imbrandon> ??????? frogs
<imbrandon> ?????? ferrit
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> fierce falcon
<imbrandon> that would be cool
<StevenK> Just as long as it isn't "Funky <something>"
<imbrandon> flashy firefly
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> StevenK: +1
<imbrandon> lol
* StevenK grins
<imbrandon> if it was we would need a disco theme walpaper
* StevenK headdesks
<imbrandon> and a mascot in bellbottoms
<StevenK> NO, NO we *DON'T*
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> ARGH, not helping!
* imbrandon rembers the discoball from jdubs old gnome desktop
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i like falcon or firefly thoguh personaly
<bddebian> Frisky Ferrett, I like it
<StevenK> FRISKY!
<imbrandon> hehe
<StevenK> We can't call a release that!
* StevenK pulls out his crossbow.
<StevenK> Keep calling them out, I'm reloading
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> Flamboyant Frogs !?!
<bddebian> Friggin' Frog?
<StevenK> FRIGGIN'?!?!
<bddebian> :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<bddebian> Flatulent Frog? ;-P
<StevenK> We may as well call it "Fucking Faggots" and get it all out.
* bddebian cracks himself up
<imbrandon> Flakey Finch !?!
<imbrandon> bwhahahahahahahaha
<imbrandon> omg
<StevenK> Oh look, I broke imbrandon
<imbrandon> heh
<bddebian> I will never be a fucking C programmer I swear :'-(
<StevenK> bddebian: That's a bit long for a release name.
* imbrandon wispers python 
<StevenK> Oh, wait
<bddebian> Heh
<imbrandon> StevenK: hahahaha
<imbrandon> freaky .....
<imbrandon> flyby falcon
<imbrandon> hum
<bddebian> Fantastic Fujitsu
<Laser_away> oh yeah
<minghua> bddebian: that's a nice one :-)
<StevenK> Yeah, let's name the release after someone who isn't even a member yet
<bddebian> pfft
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: is a member now
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> -doc already had Fabulous Flamingo
* bddebian vomits
<crimsun> (well on his way to MOTU, too)
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> imbrandon: Shush!
<bddebian> Flamboyent Flamingo
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<imbrandon> crimsun: yup, i'll definately be cheering him on
<LaserJock> Fabulous Flamboyant Flamingo
<imbrandon> Fantastic Fink !?!
<LaserJock> to OS Xish
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> so the codename for edgy+1 is supposed to be announced soon?
<whiprush> minghua: porbably around the time of the developer summit
<whiprush> november-ish
<imbrandon> minghua: historicly yes, its always beena bout a month before release , but no one knows exactly but sabdfl
<StevenK> About a month before the *previous* release
<imbrandon> right
<minghua> now I am getting different answers :-(
<imbrandon> minghua: no one knows but sabdfl , but if we go on whats happened in the past it will be in the next few days
<minghua> whiprush: November will be after edgy is released, won't it?
<whiprush> yeah
* minghua can wait anyway
<imbrandon> heya whiprush
<whiprush> hey brandon
<whiprush> hey are you coming to ohio?
<imbrandon> not this time ;( i wanted to
<whiprush> damn
<whiprush> next year then
<whiprush> it's sweet
<imbrandon> yup yup
<imbrandon> you there now ?
<whiprush> no, it's next weekend
<minghua> Ubuntu's code name is usually "an adjective minghua doesn't know" + "an animal minghua haven't heard of", so whatever :-P
<StevenK> Hah
<imbrandon> minghua: hehe
<imbrandon> minghua: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
* StevenK throws a badger and a drake at minghua
<imbrandon> haha who put "
<imbrandon> Fire up the crackpipes! "
<imbrandon> for the eft descrip ?
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> yeah, I've heard of badger, but I don't think I've ever seen one
<minghua> as for drake, even Ubuntu developers can't decide it's a dragon or a duck, so... :-)
<imbrandon> drake is a small dragon
<crimsun> according to mdz, dragons don't exist.
<imbrandon> there are real dragons , just not ones like in fairy tails, komodo dragons and some others
<imbrandon> komodo dragons are very poisonius iirc
<imbrandon> http://images.google.com/images?q=komodo+dragon&hl=en&lr=&pwst=1&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title
<minghua> komodo dragon looks just like an armadillo to me :-)
<imbrandon> .... only bigger and no shell ....
<imbrandon> and poisonus heh
<minghua> western dragons all look to weird to me, and reminds me of dinosaurs
<minghua> chinese dragons are completely different
<LaserJock> imbrandon: drake is a duck you dope ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: draks are also small dragons dodo ;)
<imbrandon> drakes*
<minghua> chinese dragons are like http://www2.nkansai.ne.jp/users/harumi/wa1.htm (shame it's a japanese web page)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> crimsun: is there a funky license or something with the imbjava that it cant be put into multi/universe ?
<imbrandon> ibm java*
<imbrandon> ugh people never cease to amaze me
<LaserJock> OO.o via checkinstall? ;-)
<imbrandon> and cant even leave comments on his blog, ........
<imbrandon> no a post on planet.d.o
<imbrandon> hahah that too though
<imbrandon> LaserJock: http://www.infodrom.org/~joey/log/?200609232000  <-- thats just ignorant imho, i mean if he dosent have time , fine, or the will to do it fine, but he wasnt in it for the money to begin with , so why whinge now
<minghua> huh?  I was thinking you can't go lower than alien on OO.o...
<imbrandon> thats like me saying, well Riddell ( or insert some other canonical employeee ) gets pay'd to work on kdelibs , so i wont , even though uptill now i did it becouse i love the distro
<imbrandon> leaste in my eyes
<imbrandon> maybe i'm just reading it wrong , but seems very , ummm wrong
<StevenK> imbrandon: That argument has been going on in Debian for the last three weeks.
* StevenK is sick of it
<imbrandon> i can imagine
<imbrandon> i just now seen it on p.d.o
<imbrandon> i dont read that planet every day
<StevenK> "People are getting paid for working on Debian, why can't I?"
<StevenK> Um, we seem to deal.
<imbrandon> exactly
<StevenK> Canonical pays some of the core developers, and it doesn't affect how much you and I want to contribute.
<crimsun> imbrandon: I don't know precisely. I'd love to see it in dapper-commercial (alongside sun's, for instance)
<imbrandon> i mean dont get me wrong, if canonical ever had a contract that i could fullfill i would jump on it, but thats not why i do this day to day
* StevenK goes out to get a late lunch
<imbrandon> later StevenK
<imbrandon> crimsun: yea really, maybe we could poke someone about it next week
<imbrandon> ( someone that could make the contacts etc )
<crimsun> it would be great for ppc users at least
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> its realy the only java worth anything on ppc
<crimsun> Well, Joey certainly is entitled to his opinion. I find that it's nice to offset my "day job" from Debian+Ubuntu tasks. Heck, I even pledge to dunc-tank because I have as much of a desire to see Ubuntu succeed as I do Debian.
<crimsun> It's pathetic that people choose to malign Ubuntu. I don't know of people involved with Ubuntu that malign Debian.
<whiprush> crimsun: ++
<imbrandon> crimsun: yea , i mean he can, hell we call can, i can even see him saying he dosent have the time/desire/whatever anymore, hell most of us are volenteers , but to say becouse someone else is getting payed that you wont do it is just wrong imho , it means to me that you were doing it for the wrong reasons to begin with
<whiprush> I think that article today was pretty crappy.
<imbrandon> whiprush: what one ?
<whiprush> I think debian today is stronger than ever.
<whiprush> the one about debian dying
<crimsun> I utterly disagree about Debian dying. Organisational shifts != death throes.
<imbrandon> i dident see that one, but i dont think that for a second, debian looks strong to me, its in a bit of upheaval but all groups go though that , dosent make them weak or dyeing
<imbrandon> crimsun: ++
<whiprush> crimsun: I agree
<whiprush> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7543606709.html
<whiprush> that's the article
<imbrandon> thanks
<imbrandon> , yea i think i'm gonna though some of my thoughts on my blog tonight
<whiprush> I'm of the opinion that things like ubuntu made debian popular
<imbrandon> i havent bloged in a while
<whiprush> and hanging out with debian guys
<whiprush> I think the project is the healthiest it's been in a long time
<whiprush> so I don't know what that guy's problem is
<imbrandon> i dont know much about its past but i do see it as very strong atm
<imbrandon> past as in pre 1 year ago
<whiprush> before ubuntu I was using debian for years.
<whiprush> to say debian is "dying" right now is just some dude wanting web hits
<imbrandon> i admit i was a suse guy for the most part, but , well it sucked lol
<whiprush> sure, there are issues, but there have always been issues
<imbrandon> till the last year or so
<whiprush> eve3ry distro has issues
<imbrandon> and always will be
<crimsun> diversity normally translates to healthy progress
<imbrandon> exactly look at gentoo atm, they are in more turmoil than debian but i dont think they are dying either
<whiprush> the thing is linux web sites always look for conflict
<whiprush> that's how they sell web hits.
<LaserJock> bad news is good news ;-)
<imbrandon> yea
<whiprush> indeed
<crimsun> maybe s/linux//g ;-)
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> I think that's the general rule for journalism? :-)
<whiprush> two years ago I got wasted with David Nusinow at mako's place, just having a good time.
<whiprush> no one cares about that
<whiprush> or how dave worked with guys like daniel to do X stuff for ubuntu
<whiprush> because it's not popular
<whiprush> people would rather run stories about how debian and Ubuntu hate each other
<whiprush> which is crap.
<LaserJock> or people like me who came to know Debian through Ubuntu and now I think Debian rocks
<imbrandon> exactly
<whiprush> LaserJock: I am the other way around.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ++
<imbrandon> i'm in LaserJock shoes i came to know debian through ubuntu
<imbrandon> and dont see why all the fuss tbh
<LaserJock> I can see some of why
<whiprush> LaserJock: I still consider myself a debian user, though I use ubuntu, and I've met some really kickass debian developers and got to work with them on stuff.
<LaserJock> but in the end people just need to suck it up and do their work
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea i see SOME of it, there are always problems , but not to the extent of hate
<whiprush> I think it's really crap that some people use the differences between the projects to make a rift between them.
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> the important thing for me personally, was when I realized that DDs opinions are the opinions of all DDs
<LaserJock> aren't
<Burgundavia> whiprush: because conflict sells
<LaserJock> rather
<whiprush> When I go to a show I drink with DDs and Ubuntu people.
<minghua> I always have the feeling that many of the bad words in Debian are really against people instead of things
<bddebian> I always kind of considered Ubuntu, the "desktop" arm of Debian
<whiprush> Burgundavia: yeah, but screw those people.
<minghua> there seems to be old feuds
<imbrandon> what really gets me too is you dont see them ( as in the nay-sayers not all of debian, i have met alot of kick ass DD's ) saying the same thing about xandros, freespire,knoppix,etc etc etc
<whiprush> bddebian: I consider ubuntu a nice server arm of debian too.
<bddebian> whiprush: Well I haven't delved there too deeply so I can't do that :-)
<LaserJock> I don't even know what to consider Ubuntu
<imbrandon> yea more like a nice ootb debian
<whiprush> bddebian: I have lots of ubuntu servers
<bddebian> imbrandon: That's a better perspective
<crimsun> people just enjoy stirring up stuff ;-)
<crimsun> (I'm just as guilty)
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> I try not to for sure
<imbrandon> i try not to, i cant say i never do, hell i think i started this convo LOL
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> we're all human , but , man some things just hit me wrong
<LaserJock> well, maybe it's not so much stirring things up that's the problem
<LaserJock> as it being a constructive thing
<LaserJock> I feel like in Ubuntu things often get stirred about
<LaserJock> but the goal being to have a stronger product at the end
<whiprush> I've always believed if you end up making each project hate each other that you end up failing everyone.
<imbrandon> yea , true, alot of its how you handle the stired pot
<Burgundavia> whiprush: no other spinoff has "threatened" the core constituency of Debian in the same way
<whiprush> Burgundavia: I've never met a Debian person IRL claim that.
<Burgundavia> whiprush: no, but there is "news" there
<whiprush> IME most of them are happy accepting patches
<imbrandon> i dont even think its the majority of debian i think its a __loud minority__ imho
<whiprush> Burgundavia: and that's crap.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: guess what
<imbrandon> joejaxx: ??
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i built fluxbox1.0rc2 yesterday
<joejaxx> into a deb
<whiprush> Burgundavia: it's bullshit, a minority of people are pissed, we shouldn't use that as a measure of what to do.
<imbrandon> joejaxx: congrats ;)
<joejaxx> well really like this morning
<joejaxx> imbrandon: thanks
<whiprush> a minority right now want to eject the DPL ffs.
<imbrandon> lets keep it construtive guys ........
<crimsun> joejaxx: we can ask for a sync from experimental if you really, really want it in 6.10
<imbrandon> constructive*
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but of course ;-)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i have a question though do you know what application takes care of image/svg+xml mime type?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: because i think i might have removed that application in the process of cleaning Fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> crimsun: oh ok
<imbrandon> depends i know some, not a light weight one, like , umm inkscape does etc
<joejaxx> crimsun: well i still have to take care of the "no man page for Fluxbuntu-generate_menus warning
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well i mean bu default in ubuntu for scalable images
<imbrandon> joejaxx: no i'm not sure
<LaserJock> I think we need to keep to http://alcopop.org/log/2006/09/22/#grass and we'll be fine
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh alright
<imbrandon> LaserJock: wow , i've not seen that, that makes me happy
<joejaxx> crimsun: i was planning on upgrading to 1.0rc2 after edgy released anyway so i could upgrade everything together
<imbrandon> and sad at the same time
<joejaxx> crimsun: so i think i will wait
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<joejaxx> bddebian: goodnight :)
<joejaxx> :\
<imbrandon> joejaxx: he's fast ;)
<joejaxx> yeah
<imbrandon> LaserJock: who's blog is that
<joejaxx> imbrandon: hopefully once i get my foundation firm for building package maybe i will try and join motu
<imbrandon> joejaxx: sure ;) i'll be happy to help you do that when you want , as i have time etc etc etc , plus the other guys in here are great, hang out , learn from other peoples questions etc
<imbrandon> it helps alot ;)
<joejaxx> ok ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: Alexis Sukrieh on planet.d.o
<Toadstool> re
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sorry that's wrong
<imbrandon> btw everyone if you havent met joejaxx he is the driving force right now behind fluxbuntu ( fluxbuntu.org ) ;) take a bow joejaxx
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's  Jon Downland
<LaserJock> hiya joejaxx
* Toadstool back from his first football game, it's so boring :p
<LaserJock> real football or soccer? ;-)
<Toadstool> football :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ahh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hello :)
<LaserJock> poor Toadstool
<Toadstool> it's weird for me to call that football
<joejaxx> LaserJock: right now i am building mBuild1 Revision 2
<Toadstool> my football is soccer :p
<joejaxx> nBuild1*
<LaserJock> I love football but I hear many people from other countries don't
<LaserJock> :-)
<minghua> football is not bad, it just uses a wrong name :-)
<imbrandon> yea baseball, then american football ;)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: cool, so do you intend to get all the fluxbuntu packages in Universe? or are they already
<crimsun> joejaxx: bug 62120
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62120 in fluxbox "Please sync fluxbox 0.9.15.1+1.0rc2-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62120
<crimsun> joejaxx: you may wish to subscribe to that bug
<imbrandon> LaserJock: he plans to , just for edgy+1 , he got started a bit late for edgy
<LaserJock> is there a fluxbuntu-desktop, etc.?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i have not added any of the fluxbuntu package
<joejaxx> LaserJock: not until Launch1
<joejaxx> packages*
<joejaxx> crimsun: ahh thanks
<LaserJock> ok
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the iso is 315MB :)
<LaserJock> I'll be looking forward to seeing fluxbuntu in Universe
<LaserJock> :-)
* imbrandon will have to get joejaxx on the ubuntu versioning scheme
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: haha
<joejaxx> :P
<imbrandon> brb, time for a snack
<imbrandon> and some dew ;)
<Toadstool> now gotta grab some food, otherwise i'm going to starve</Toadstool's captivating life>
<Toadstool> cya :p
<joejaxx> Toadstool: :P
<LaserJock> hmm, is there a shortcut to get to your inbox in mutt
<LaserJock> I keep hitting c-<tab>-PgDn-<enter>
* minghua uses c + =inb + <tab> + <enter> :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: you can always remap a key
<LaserJock> hmm, part of the problem is my inbox is in /var/spool/mail
<LaserJock> so it's a little odd to type
<minghua> macro index S "c/var/spool/mail\n" "Go to inbox"
<minghua> in ~/.muttrc (UNTESTED!)
<minghua> that maps the key S to the command
<LaserJock> minghua: excellent, that worked
<LaserJock> I sure hate that the stupid school server doesn't have nano
<LaserJock> it does have pico so I guess I should just alias it
<imbrandon> heh yea i was gonan say alias it
<minghua> LaserJock: you can choose something other than S, I copied that from my "mark as spam" shortcut, because I know S is open
<imbrandon> i used to alias pico to nano way back when i only had nano at first becouse for so many years i was used to typing pico and i hated "command not found"
<minghua> It's sort of weird to hear people aliasing nano to pico though
<minghua> it's usually the other way around
<imbrandon> heh yea
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm used to nano
<imbrandon> it took me many months to get used to nano vs pico, hell once in a while i'll cacth my self in howtos writing pico still
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> my nano skill is a little better than my emacs skill
<LaserJock> I think my advisor almost imploded when emacs wasn't installed on the server :-)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<LaserJock> the sysadmin quickly rectified the situation
<minghua> (which isn't saying much as my emacs skill is limited to C-x C-c :-)
<joejaxx> i have never used emacs
<LaserJock> you should of seen his face when I said "It's got vim on it"
<joejaxx> LaserJock: haha
<imbrandon> you know i can honestly say i have used emacs ONE time , i use vi(m) when needed and can get arround with it, and nano for day to day , but the MAIN reason i dont use emacs .......
<imbrandon> i couldent figure out how to save/exit !?!!
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> i had to open another tty and kill -9 the pid
<imbrandon> never again have i run emacs
<LaserJock> I thought the same thing about vim
<LaserJock> I don't think my advisor could last 30 min without emacs
<imbrandon> well i learned the very basicls of vi when a system crashed and the recovery console only had vi , no pico
<imbrandon> so i HAD to
<imbrandon> i've never HAD to learn emacs
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I did
<imbrandon> basics*
<LaserJock> I didn't know that vi(m) even existed until I'd been using Linux for a year at least
<imbrandon> i always like the jokes about if you want an editor use vi(m) if you want an os use emacs
<LaserJock> emacs is attractive that way
<imbrandon> heh i like simple editor, i use it to edit txt files, if i want other tools i use the other tools
<imbrandon> thats the way i look at it
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> serouisly though , to this day i have only started emacs one time, hell i dont even know if its installed, but i do know that i dont know how to exit once its started
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> ctrl-x ctrl-c
<imbrandon> i should probably learn the very very basics of it incase for some reason i would NEED to use it
<joejaxx> imbrandon: same here
<LaserJock> well, I'm off to bed
<LaserJock> good night folks
<imbrandon> but for my tool box day to day nano ( plus the occasional vim ) works great
<imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
<imbrandon> plus RMS wrote emacs dident he? *grumbles*
<bluefoxicy> yeah rms is an asshole don't use things he wrote
* bluefoxicy squints and oshit, this isn't #wikipedia, seek a better response!
<minghua> hey, RMS wrote gcc
<imbrandon> ;)
<Toadstool> Fujitsu: bug 60349, why do you change python-dev to python in Build-Deps-Indep?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60349 in galternatives "Please review merge of galternatives" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60349
<keescook> if there's a package in debian unstable (and it's in testing), where can I find out why it's not in universe?  (I'm happy to solve the problems, too, I just don't know where to look and see why it's not already in universe)  "gopchop" is the package.
<keescook> the wiki talks about stuff in neither (revu), and about stuff that needs work (merge), but not about regular syncs
<BazziR> apt-cache search gopchop
<BazziR> apt-cache policy gopchop
<keescook> BazziR: it's not in universe.  :P
<BazziR> ah, why
<BazziR> didn't read that, sorry
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ apt-cache madison gopchop gopchop |    1.1.7-5 | http://192.168.1.5 edgy/universe Packages gopchop |    1.1.7-5 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
<keescook> erk... actually, it IS... just only in edgy
* keescook scratches his head
<keescook> that's weird; it's been in unstable for a while.
<BazziR> so there is no problem huh? :)
<imbrandon> just means it wasent in time for dapper, was it in unstable before january ?
<keescook> problem is my brain, it seems.  ;)
<keescook> ah, yeah, that'd be the problem.
<keescook> 2006-06-05
<imbrandon> ;) considering dapper was released on 2006-06-01 ;)
<keescook> I'm actually the upstream author of gopchop.  another dude was packaging it for me, but I didn't realize it took that long to get mentored in
<keescook> pardon the brain fart.  :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> no worries
<imbrandon> keescook: all ways good to check http://packages.ubuntu.com/<package>
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> just fyi
<keescook> imbrandon: I did, I just missed the dates.
<keescook> ah, the confusion.  I should go to bed.  No coding after midnight
<imbrandon> ..
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah i broken it ubuntu uses something to display scalable icons
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i need to find out what that is
<joejaxx> well bbl
<StevenK> w
<StevenK> Oops
<crimsun> 'morning gauvain
<crimsun> & raphink
<Gloubiboulga> hello Daniel
<raphink> hi crimsun
<marcin_ant> hi guys
<crimsun> hi
<marcin_ant> is there someone that could answer me few questions about java policy in ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> Laser_away: you are not still up?
<Fujitsu> Toadstool, that was a while ago, I'll check...
<Burgundavia> any other MOTU need access to a fairly fast (2.4 GHZ athalon with 1 gb of ram) i386 machine on a fairly fat pipe?
<Fujitsu> That'd be good, but I'm not a MOTU yet.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: I am merely looking for people I trust
<StevenK> Burgundavia: Thanks, but I have one. ;-)
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, noted.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: are you suffering from down-under bandwidth?
* StevenK waves his 3GHz amd64 at Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, 64kbps at the moment :(
* Fujitsu hits StevenK.
* StevenK evades the hit easily.
<Fujitsu> Of course, with your super-DD powers!
* lastnode__ could use a fat pipe, but it wouldn't matter anyway, on his crappy dsl 
<lastnode__> except maybe for a shell
<lastnode__> then again, like Fujitsu, im no motu either :P
<crimsun> bah, you and your broadband(s)
<Burgundavia> canonical needs to by some amd64 and ppc buildds and dev machines and host them
* lastnode__ goes back to python
<Burgundavia> crimsun: you want access?
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, yeah, that would be useful. Like I would have caught my (well, more Debian's) dodgy python-scipy earlier today.
<crimsun> Burgundavia: I'm good for x86 and amd64, thanks though
<lastnode> gnomefreak, what happened to your hostmask?
<gnomefreak> lastnode: its there
<lastnode> oh right, sorry. /me always identifies before /joining
<AnAnt> ping lionelp
<AnAnt> ping Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> AnAnt, pong (but I have to leave)
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> can I request a REVU ?
<AnAnt> a package needing second advocate
<Gloubiboulga> sure, give me the url, I'll have a look later today
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3204
<AnAnt>  & thanks
<Gloubiboulga> ok, added on my TODO ;)
<AnAnt> k
<lastnode> could someone help me create a .deb for a .py script of mine?
<lastnode> i was just wondering, in marking deps, should i mark the name of the internal python module, or the dpkg name for the module
<|thunder> wish I could
<lastnode> probably the latter, right?
<azeem> lastnode: there is a policy on how to name python binary packages.  The source package naming is not restricted, so you can just call it the same as upstream for convenience
<lastnode> azeem, id im using py-qt, my dep would be python.24-qt3
<lastnode> *if
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> python-qt3, or python-qt, I've forgotten which.
<Fujitsu> Search for the Debian Python Policy.
<Fujitsu> That describes how to package Python things.
<lastnode> thanks Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<|thunder> I'd like to start learing hot to dev soe stuff for ubuntu. id like to start with an app that gets input from terminal comands and displays them in a GUI. what is a good place to start ?
<|thunder> sry, new keyboard
<|thunder> takes some getting used to
<|thunder> why is there no man page for 'jobs' ?
<|thunder> --help list bunch of flags with no explaination
<|thunder> hrm,..  seems jobs is not a bin. a bash commans prehaps. nm
<Fujitsu> Last night I attempted to update soundconverter to 0.9.1. However, it recently moved to use autotools, rendering the old, manual, partially debhelper debian/rules entirely useless. I emailed the soundconverter maintainer last night, asking if he was planning to update the package to 0.9.1 in the near future. He responded saying he would immediately orphan that package, as he loathes autotools.
<geser> use help for bash builtins: help jobs
<|thunder> ahh, thanks
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: woha. how nice :-P.
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, yeah.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.  thought about the maintainer in both debian and ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, thought about the maintainer?
<Hobbsee> er, sorry.  there should be a "being" in there
<Fujitsu> Yes, I had thought about that.
<Fujitsu> There's no particular requirements for maintaining a Debian package, is there?
<tseng> Fujitsu: im not sure what you mean
<tseng> the package itself obviously has to meet strict requirements
<tseng> you need to file an ITP (intent to package) bug
<Fujitsu> No, it'd be an ITA in this case...
<tseng> and find a willing sponsor to help you continue to get your work into the archive
<Fujitsu> But I mean, I don't have to be a DD or anything.
<tseng> no, but you need one
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: we have DD's in this channel, so shouldn't be to hard :-)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, I know :)
<Fujitsu> In fact, the old maintainer has already talked to another DD about it, who's happy to sponsor my upload. I just got an email then :)
<tseng> oh, so thats why darcs is such a good RCS
<tseng> it doesnt perserve permissions
<tseng> like.. +x
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pygi> morning bddebian
<bddebian> Heya pygi
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hello Master Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Oy.
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> Master indeed.
<Fujitsu> Or not.
<Fujitsu> `Hello Lowly little nothing Fujitsu' would be more appropriate :P
<StevenK> Bwahaha
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Hello peasant!
<Fujitsu> Thankyou!
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Bah
<Fujitsu> I'm not even a MOTU yet, so I'm just a lowly little nothing :P
<bddebian> Phooey
<Hobbsee> hello deity bddebian
<bddebian> You seem to be getting more accomplished than a great deal of MOTU's I "know"
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: MOTU == does no work :P
* bddebian pokes Hobbsee in the eye
<Hobbsee> or close to none
<Hobbsee> hah.  you missed
* Hobbsee smashes the deity with a saucepan
<bddebian> heh
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I believe kaol will be uploading my soundconverter 0.9.1-1 to Debian shortly :P
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee as he runs off without his feet touching the ground
<Fujitsu> Oh no, not again.
* Fujitsu points out Mithrandir to Goddebian.
<tseng> Hobbsee: thats core-dev
<Nafallo> hehe
<Hobbsee> tseng: you sure?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nice :)
<tseng> yes
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, hopefully :)
* Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir back, and waves her long pointy stick at him
<Mithrandir> mm, pointy sticks
<Fujitsu> Nasty savage Hobbsee, resorting to using pointy sticks.
* Mithrandir chews on Hobbsee's pointy stick, making it blunt
* Fujitsu applauds Mithrandir.
<Nafallo> haha
<Nafallo> save the trees! kill a beaver!
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you cant.  and just watch it electrocute you.
<Fujitsu> Long pointy cattle-prod, then.
<pygi> Nafallo: you would ruin the ecosphere that way!!!
<Hobbsee> Sysinfo for 'LongPointyStickOfDoom': Linux 2.6.17-7-generic running KDE 3.5.4, CPU: MobileIntel(R)Celeron(R)CPU2.40GHz at 2394 MHz (4793 bogomips), , RAM: 773/994MB, 102 proc's, 3.1h up
<Hobbsee> nah...
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: but that's... cheating.
<Hobbsee> most cattle prods dont have celeron processors....
<Fujitsu> PFft.
<Nafallo> no, they have amd64 x2 :-)
<Hobbsee> :P
* Fujitsu prods Hobbsee with his brand new long point stick of DOOM X2
<Fujitsu> *pointy
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you cant, it's mine.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they're *all* mine
<Fujitsu> No, I have a X2!
<Hobbsee> any and all long pointy sticks of doom, of any variety, are mine.
<Nafallo> s/stick/cattleprod/ then ;-)
<zul_> arrgh...its Hobbsee http://www.macmillan.org.uk/whybother/help/images/pointy.gif
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> So Hobbsee is this little orange bespectacled blob?
<zul_> with a pointy stick
<Fujitsu> Well, that's implied.
<Nafallo> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> StevenK: think that's a good likeness of me?  ^
<Nafallo> motus smokes the crackpipe :-P
<StevenK> I don't think so.
<StevenK> Besides, it doesn't have red eyes.
<Hobbsee> true that :P
* Mithrandir chews zul's leg
<zul_> red eyes like the devil
<Fujitsu> :O
* Fujitsu stomps on Mithrandir.
<zul_> Mithrandir: i choose to ignore the chewing of my leg :)
<Mithrandir> zul_: the amd64's kernel arch is not amd64, it's x86_64 and there are includes which include <asm-i386/...> in there.
<Fujitsu> Ah!
* Fujitsu unstomps.
<Mithrandir> zul_: I'm fixing it up now, but my machine is slow, so each kernel build takes about 15 minutes.
<zul_> Mithrandir: doh...will be fixed soon i hope, still trying to get 2.6.17 to behave properly
<Mithrandir> I need more ram.
<Mithrandir> zul_: sure, but all this is packaging faff, so kernel version doesn't really matter.
<zul_> Mithrandir: i know but 2.6.17 has the kernel headers patch which should make it easier
<Mithrandir> zul_: hmm?  That's just for making glibc's headers from the actual kernel, isn't it?
<Hobbsee> zul_: indeed.
<zul_> i think so..
<Nafallo> slow... 15 minutes kernels... *mumbel, grumbel*
<zul_> i need more ram as wel
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: with ccache.
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: I built i386 kernels overnight on mine, and it wasn't finished when I got up :-P
<Nafallo> with ccache...
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: even after the -generic merge so it's just one huge build?
<Nafallo> yea, the 9 ABI one.
<Nafallo> but I have hardware coming so... ;-)
<Mithrandir> uh, what kind of machine is that?  This is just xen, but the compilation speed shouldn't really be different.
<Mithrandir> cache hit                         180007
<Mithrandir> cache miss                         36638
* Mithrandir ruffles ccache
<Nafallo> ogre.magicalforest.se is it's current state :-)
<bddebian> Grr stupid new build-deps for a simple release
<Fujitsu> Which package, bddebian?
<bddebian> Fujitsu: saods9
<zul> .win 18
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: well, an x2 4400+ ought to be slightly faster than a 1.4GHz 32 bit machine.  Especially since I have two and a half times your RAM.
<zul> and ccache
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: yea, but you're machine isn't that slow on building then. that was more to my point :-).
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: well, yours is just slower. :-P
<Nafallo> :-)
<Mithrandir> dpkg-deb: Bygger pakken xen-restricted-modules-2.6.16-11.2-generic i ../xen-restricted-modules-2.6.16-11.2-generic_2.6.16-1_amd64.deb.
<Mithrandir> zul: yay me. :-)
<Mithrandir> now lets see if it still works
* zul hits Mithrandir with a mallet and steals his puter
<Nafallo> hehe
<Fujitsu> Goodnight, everybody!
<Nafallo> 15:49 and goodnight ;-)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: gnight :-)
<Fujitsu> 23:50 here :P
<Fujitsu> 'night.
<Nafallo> baah. the world should just use UTC everywhere :-)
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Nafallo> much less problems :-)
<Mithrandir> yay, xend running and graphical stuff up and running.
<Mithrandir> zul: ^^ :-)
<AnAnt> ping bddebian
* Nafallo looks for a xen-upload by Mithrandir ;-)
<bddebian> AnAnt: pong.  Sorry,  I haven't had a chance to check out tss yet :-(
<AnAnt> bddebian: nevermind, don't ! it seems that there MAY be license issues regarding the artwork in it
<AnAnt> bddebian: so I still have to resolve it (prolly in Edgy+1)
<AnAnt> bddebian: I wanted to ask about freedict, it has a ready to upload status although only you approved it
<bddebian> Ah, OK
<AnAnt> bddebian: and it's not on LP queue
<AnAnt> I think
<bddebian> AnAnt: Oh shoot, right. Because it's already in the repo it doesn't need 2
<AnAnt> bddebian: you mean this https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/freedict ?
<AnAnt> because that's the URL I though I would find it
<bddebian> AnAnt: Yes.  Because freedict is already there, your package is just an "upgrade" not new to Ubuntu so technically I could just upload it
<AnAnt> bddebian: well, would u upload it ?
<bddebian> If you pay me ;-P
<AnAnt> you're on dialup ?
<bddebian> No cable modem
<AnAnt> hmmm, is there any other way then ?
<bddebian> I'm kidding man give me a minute
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> bddebian: after upload I should see it in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/freedict , right ?
<bddebian> Yep, it's uploading now
<AnAnt> thand
<AnAnt> thanks
<bddebian> AnAnt: It's up
<AnAnt> it takes time to appear on LP ?
<AnAnt> thanks
<bddebian> Fuck it got rejected because of the MD5sums
<AnAnt> what md5sums ?
<AnAnt> oh, the md5sums in the upload file
<AnAnt> why is it that the REVUer has to upload it himself ?
<AnAnt> shouldn't the REVU site do that ?
<bddebian> No, it's not that
<bddebian> AnAnt: Did you do anything with orig.tar.gz?
<AnAnt> bddebian: nope
<AnAnt> besides, isn't the md5sums generated when I do debuild ?
<AnAnt> bddebian: and I wouldn't be able to upload to REVU if the md5sums were incorrect, right ?
<geser> AnAnt: did you take the orig.tar.gz from LP or did you generate a new one?
<ryanakca> bddebian: can you review an crystal-diamond please? (it's just as an extra iconset for universe...) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3238
<AnAnt> geser: I don't remember, that was months ago
<AnAnt> bddebian: how about I get it now from LP, and repackage it ?
<AnAnt> ping bddebian
<AnAnt> bddebian: I downloaded the orig tarball from the repos & made a diff, the tarballs aren't the same
<AnAnt> bddebian: yet after unpacking, the diff of the resulting directories is the same
<bddebian> AnAnt: Did you pull the orig.tar.gz from Debian?
<AnAnt> bddebian: I don't remember where I pulled the orig.tar.gz several months ago
<AnAnt> bddebian: ok, I just repackaged
<AnAnt> bddebian: uploading...
<bddebian> AnAnt: I have to do a couple things for the Mrs. then I'll try again
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> thanks
<bddebian> ryanakca: Yeah, I'll take a look
<ryanakca> bddebian: wait a second... I think we've found... some copyright issues...
<bddebian> Oh
<ryanakca> bddebian: look at #kubuntu-devel
<AnAnt> bddebian: uploaded !
<xerxas> does anybody knows giskard ?
<xerxas> does anyone knows giskard ?
<bddebian> xerxas: I don't, sorry
<xerxas> ok
<phanatic> good evening
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<slytherin> Hi all. I want to report some unnecessary dependencies in gnucash (edgy), but launchpad says I can't report a bug got gnucash.
<Subhuman> slytherin,  report a bug got gnucash?
<slytherin> Subhuman: I didn't get you.
<Subhuman> prob cuz gnucash isnt a lauchpad project, look for the gnucash website and post the bug there...
<slytherin> Subhuman: Problem is that the bug is in dependencies of gnucash package in edgy. So reporting it to gnucash bugzilla won't be useful.
<Nafallo> Subhuman: I rather think you're not trying to report it against the _Ubuntu_ gnucash :-)
<Subhuman> slytherin, you need to find the maintainer of the gnucash package.
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/+filebug
<Subhuman> i get you now.
<slytherin> Nafallo: Ahh. Got it now. I guess I was trying to report against product gnucash.
<Nafallo> yea, and that's just plain wrong. so lucky you it didn't work ;-)
<slytherin> bug 62203
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62203 in gnucash "Unnecessary (-dev) dependencies in gnucash in edgy" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62203
<minghua> slytherin: can't blame you.  launchpad doesn't has the most intuitive interface IMO
<slytherin> minghua: I was looking in wrong place. gnucash is a source package in ubuntu as well as registered product.
<minghua> I see
<ajmitch> morning all
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: how'd your weekend of reviewing go?
<bddebian> I had a weekend of reviewing?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
* ajmitch wonders why gnome-panel is chewing cpu time
<ajmitch> oh dear, lots of ioctl & poll usage
<LaserJock> a rogue applet?
<ajmitch> maybe
<LaserJock> I know I had one eating all my ram
<ajmitch> that would be a challenge for me :)
<LaserJock> yeah, I *only* had 756MB
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps we could come up with a better response then "Go look at LP" to -devel questions
<minghua> ajmitch: http://primates.ximian.com/~federico/news-2006-09.html#polling
<minghua> and the links therein
<zul> LaserJock: go look at LP please?
<LaserJock> well, if the person doesn't know what is on or off topic for -devel I sort of wonder if LP is any better
<zul> well if they are coming from windows they probably never filed a bug in their life
<LaserJock> I find it fairly difficult to find bugs on LP
<LaserJock> I just don't see why LP has to be the be all, end all of communication
* minghua just wrestled against LP this afternoon
<LaserJock> many people want to know that a bug is indeed a bug before they file it
<zul> i agree launchpad can be a pain but bugs can be better tracked there, if mailing lists were the only thing that were used then no work would be getting done
<minghua> I still don't know how to delete a remote bug watch though (we have duplicate ones)
<zul> that reminds me i have to check bugme
<Nafallo> zul: bugyou?
<zul> bugme.osdl.org
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: yea, but this is non-stop, causing max cpu usage on 1 core :)
<minghua> ajmitch: oh.  that should be something completely different, then
<minghua> lucky that you have two cores :-)
<ajmitch>  4173 ajmitch   25   0  303m 133m  11m R  100  3.4  86:25.45 gnome-panel --sm-client-id default1
<ajmitch> it could probably do with being restarted anyway
<ajmitch> process has been running since aug 16
<LaserJock> I would just find -devel very discouraging as a person wanting to get involved
<ajmitch> list or channel?
<LaserJock> list
<ajmitch> right
<LaserJock> channel too, but probably less so
<ajmitch> it is a bit daunting, and people frequently get told they're OT
<LaserJock> going into it I would think -devel ML would be about talking about the dev release
<LaserJock> when in practice it is for developers to talk to each other, it seems
<LaserJock> I have no idea what is OT for -devel
<ajmitch> it is practically about the dev release
<LaserJock> but not about problems with the dev release
<LaserJock> or requests concerning the dev release
<ajmitch> no, bug reports are forbidden :)
<ajmitch> if there's a spec that should be discussed, it's appropriate
<LaserJock> but you have to know that it's a bug report in the first place
<ajmitch> but there are a *lot* of poor-quality specs
<ajmitch> where they
<ajmitch> where they just have a paragraph of a feature request
<ajmitch> not a specification
<ajmitch> it'll make it hard to filter through the good ones for mountain view
<LaserJock> well, that's some of what I'm talking about
<LaserJock> people have questions and we just shove them to LP or specs without much guidance
<LaserJock> IMO at least
<ajmitch> I agree
<ajmitch> 'file a bug', 'write a spec'
<LaserJock> mhm
<Fujitsu> Gah. Stupid stupid close UniverseFreeze.
<ajmitch> & then bug triagers have to go through & request relevant info later
<tseng> Fujitsu: there you are
<ajmitch> like version info, distro
<Fujitsu> Hi tseng.
<tseng> hi
<tseng> gnome-web-photo
<tseng> would you mind getting that into debian?
<Fujitsu> The package?
<tseng> yes
<Fujitsu> Erm, OK, if you say so.
<tseng> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/beagle/+bug/49512
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49512 in beagle "Beagle should suggest or recommend gnome-web-photo" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<tseng> thats you, right?
<Fujitsu> I replied to it, yes, I think... I can't quite remember.
<tseng> oh, dholbach packaged it
<tseng> you did
<tseng> but I will blame dholbach instead
<Fujitsu> Hah. Why?
<Fujitsu> Anyway, I need some advice on what to do with soundconverter.
<tseng> because i want to add things to beagle in debian, not ubuntu
<tseng> and debian doesnt have the package
<tseng> bug stays open
* ajmitch wonders how many bugs have been filed requesting new nvidia drivers so far
<imbrandon> ajmitch: 4165761354654321321357643213576
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I think they're mostly on the forums
<ajmitch> along with scripts & various hacks to install them & new flash 2.6.18 kernels & other bling
<imbrandon> probably , i havent been to the forums in months
<imbrandon> just for that reason
* ajmitch is just glancing over the various problems that people drop themselves in
<ajmitch> it's sad
<Fujitsu> I am now the Debian maintainer, however my initial upload is going to be delayed until libavc1394-0 enters testing, and gstreamer-0.10-plugins-good is rebuilt, as it's currently uninstallable in Sid. I'm not quite sure of the details. This delay is likely to be of about a week, which puts it past UniverseFreeze.
<LaserJock> I try to go on the forums a fair amount
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: that's not a great hurdle
<tseng> LaserJock: I'm sorry
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i feel for you
<LaserJock> from a dev perspective there is some serious misinformation out there
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, what should I do? Wait until UniverseFreeze is up, and get an exception? Or upload it as -0ubuntu1? Or what?
<LaserJock> it won't get better unless people give out correct info
<imbrandon> LaserJock: and people dont listen when you try to explain the "right way" they are like this "hax0r script works" its discouraging
<minghua> from my experience in Chinese debian forums, there is always misinformation
<LaserJock> many times the appreciate it
<minghua> (or is the plural for forum fora?)
<Fujitsu> Hahh.
<LaserJock> some obviously don't, but it really isn't that bad
<LaserJock> it's just time consuming
<LaserJock> like email, for me
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: upload it, sync it afterwards
<minghua> LaserJock: usually the atmosphere of a forum depends on the attitude of the most vocal ones
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I sometimes try & correct people, which is usually telling them to file bugs with correct info
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, OK. I would have uploaded it earlier, but it changed the build system to CDBS, and that's obviously frowned upon unless Debian does it.
<minghua> and there are people that "just don't get it" and keep giving out misinformations
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: explain the reasons in your sponsorship request & it should be fine
<Fujitsu> OK, thanks :)
<imbrandon> ahh the _loud minority_
<imbrandon> stikes again
<ajmitch> as long as you have the same package with different version
<ajmitch> imbrandon: always
* ajmitch just prefers to work on packages
* imbrandon likes his picture of a "dapper drake" in the last post on p.u.c
<Fujitsu> I can't stand the forum.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: exactly, i tried for a long time, might try again someday but for now i dont wanna mess with the forums
<imbrandon> take too much time for too little return ( for me )
<minghua> for example, just look at automatix
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> lol
* minghua is glad to find out automatix is not featured on www.ubuntuforums.org any more
* imbrandon should do a search for "automatic","checkinstall","add this 3rd party repo" , and see how many posts are left without them
<LaserJock> minghua: it's not?
<minghua> LaserJock: apparently not.  from what I see in http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=46
<LaserJock> I guess EasyUbuntu is there but not Automatix
<zul> heh forums rock!
<LaserJock> lots of people still us it, including Ubuntu reviewers :/
<minghua> yes Easy Ubuntu is there
<minghua> I heard easy ubuntu is the "good" automatic script?
<LaserJock> I think their probably equivalent these days
<LaserJock> s/their/they are/
* minghua sighs
<zul> <rant> all of these requests in the forum is not the proper place</rant>
<LaserJock> the thing is the forums have a very large audience and it is what many of the users see as Ubuntu
<zul> scarey isnt it
<minghua> well there are some users just weird
<minghua> I saw a post on the Chinese forum a few days ago asking for an English forum about Debian, and explicitly says he hates mailing list
<imbrandon> probably just as most irc'rs hate forums
<tseng> except irc'ers have just cause
<imbrandon> yea
<Fujitsu> tseng, yeah.
<LaserJock> phhh
<LaserJock> I don't think that's really the case
<tseng> I do
<LaserJock> it's different media
<LaserJock> I don't think either is "better"
<Fujitsu> Forums are inefficient.
<tseng> show me any medium where misinformation spreads faster than a forum
<LaserJock> that same weekness is also it's power
<bddebian> Left wing media?
* bddebian hides
<Fujitsu> Let's ban IRC from Ubuntu development, and see what happens. Let's see how much misinformation gets around.
<imbrandon> the funny thing is it can be most compared to a ML and ML dont seem the have that problem
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, that's true.
<tseng> imbrandon: yep.
<LaserJock> it's totally different then IRC or ML
<tseng> its different because its worse
<tseng> clearly so
<tseng> sorry
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> I think that's total crap, but that's ok ;-)
<LaserJock> I understand what you're saying
<imbrandon> well its totaly diffrent than irc i give you that but a ML has alot in common with forums , they started out as the same thing and evolved
<LaserJock> I'd take forums (properly run) over a ML anyday
<LaserJock> I prefer IRC over them both though for most things
<imbrandon> but it is nice how /most/ misinformation is stifled on a ML and OT is also but not so on forums
<LaserJock> that's a function of moderation and having knowledgable people
<LaserJock> not the media itself, IMO
<imbrandon> LaserJock: 100% correct but we dont have that
<imbrandon> atleaste not to the scale it is required for the forums
<LaserJock> but that's not the media's fault
<Fujitsu> Just nitpicking here, but the singular form of media is medium :P
<imbrandon> LaserJock: partly so it is, becouse it is time consuming , and the people that are able to do so cant
<imbrandon> put the time into it
<LaserJock> devs, in general, don't like forums so you don't find them there
<ivoks> forums are cr..p
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: and that IS the forums fault, it dosent make it easy for the devs or other knolageable people to direct the flow of information
<imbrandon> thus giving the misinformation the same wieght as the good stuff
<imbrandon> and thats whats bad
<ivoks> ml are better than forums cause you can choose you app for communication
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I don't think a ML is any better that way
* LaserJock grumbles about Reply-To headers :-)
<imbrandon> actualy what i honestly like and what i think we need to workon in the semi long term is ML and forum intergration, i have seen it done and it works out great
<LaserJock> it was done on the forums for a while -users and -devel I think
<LaserJock> but it seemed totally confusing to me
<LaserJock> anyway, I don't want to pick a fight or anything
<ivoks> it's late for excuses
<LaserJock> and I am very disappointed in ubuntu forums at times
<ivoks> :)
<imbrandon> nah , we all know each other and we all have our opinions ;) nothing personal heh
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, -users at least was integrated for a while, and it didn't work fantastically.
<LaserJock> but I hate MLs so I guess maybe that's my problem
<LaserJock> :-)
* Fujitsu hugs IRC.
<LaserJock> mhm
<ivoks> LaserJock: hm, did you try sorting mailing lists in you inbox?
<LaserJock> sure
<ivoks> i mean, forum needs to many clicking...
<LaserJock> I just don't like email in general
<ivoks> ah... that's the problem
<ivoks> you don't like email
<ivoks> :)
<LaserJock> it's very inefficient to me
<ajmitch> ivoks: that's why we have procmail :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: right
<imbrandon> procmail ++
<tseng> mm procmail
<LaserJock> I have procmail and mutt going right now
<ajmitch> though it's not the most intuitive of configurations
<LaserJock> but that doesn't help me like ML any better ;-)
<ivoks> wc -l .procmailrc
<ivoks> 116 .procmailrc
<ajmitch> tiny
<imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:~$ wc -l .procmailrc
<imbrandon> 85 .procmailrc
<imbrandon> very tiny
<LaserJock> that's quite a bit bigger then mine
<tseng> oh i have mine split into files
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> and source them
<ivoks> imap+procmail = jackpot
<LaserJock> that's what I do to, I don't know why though
<zul> heh i have a mental filter
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> I'm not sure why people would like email over forums, is it a GUI thing?
<LaserJock> or just being used to it?
<ivoks> it flexibility
<Fujitsu> Can somebody please try connecting to ubuntu-ca.org port 22? I can't connect.
<imbrandon> pop->gamil->fetchmail->procmail->imap  == love
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I leave out the gmail bit.
<tseng> there is more difference in forum vs ml than just transport level
<ivoks> Fujitsu: doesn't work
<Fujitsu> ivoks, OK.
<Fujitsu> And Burgandavia is away for the week :(
<LaserJock> tseng: sure, but I find forums easier to get at larger amounts of data
<LaserJock> and easier to get through the info
<minghua> LaserJock: you use thread view in mutt, don't you?
<LaserJock> although you tend to have less noise
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah
<ivoks> LaserJock: then... you miss icons? :)
<LaserJock> no
<minghua> in my opinion thread-view single-handedly beats forum
<LaserJock> I do like that I can use any browser anywhere to get the forums
<ivoks> i don't know... i never tought in the way "mail vs. forum"
<minghua> I haven't seen a proper thread view in forum yet
<ivoks> LaserJock: well... i can do that with mail too :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I can do that with mail too
<Fujitsu> Damnit.
<ivoks> :)
<Fujitsu> Lag. Annoying.
<Fujitsu> Lack of fast build machine, annoying :(
<ivoks> heh, i can even telnet to my server and read mail
<Fujitsu> And it goes down right before universe freeze, of course.
<LaserJock> sure, I know you *can* I just like browsers better then mail clients maybe
<LaserJock> anyway, I hardly post on the forums anymore anyway so it's kind of a stupid conversation
<ivoks> LaserJock: ok; i can read my mail with telnet, mail clients and browsers :)
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> but I think I've probably sent fewer emails to ML then posts to forums :/
<LaserJock> my emails alway get ignored
<LaserJock> I get no feedback
<minghua> seems LaserJock is the single minority here, and as he doesn't use forum these days anyway... :-)
<Fujitsu> I really must learn to speak IMAP at some point, as POP3 and SMTP isn't enough these days.
<Fujitsu> minghua, haha.
<LaserJock> well, but I don't ignore them outright
<ivoks> Fujitsu: then you would be able to say "I speek english, german, french and imap"
* imbrandon shouldent but does
<LaserJock> having 200,000 users can be a powerful thing
<LaserJock> when I gave a MOTU School Session
<LaserJock> I posted a forum thread announcing it
<LaserJock> and about half the people that showed up were from the forums
* Fujitsu thinks the debdiff shouldn't be hanging.
<imbrandon> forums can be good, but ours are wildly out of control
<Fujitsu> *that
<minghua> LaserJock: however I still doubt how much did the forum users benefit from it
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> I don't expect an MOTUs out of that group exactly
<minghua> my general expression is:  you mention something on forum, there is going to be a long discussion, much hot air, but in the end no help come and nothing get done
<LaserJock> but as far a communicating to users it is a powerful thing
<minghua> you mention something on mailing list, you get mails from prospective collaborators, and patches
<LaserJock> minghua: much like {ubuntu,debian}-devel
<LaserJock> ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: can't deny the communicating to users part
<minghua> well, I figure ubuntu-devel is a bit better than d-d
<LaserJock> that's the part I'm interested in
<LaserJock> forums are horrible for dev work
<minghua> LaserJock: and if you thin debian-devel is too much hot air, you should read debian-vote :-)
<LaserJock> but in ignoring them they have created their own dev people
<Fujitsu> Anybody got any ideas why an strace of dpkg-source -x whatever.dsc would be showing it hanging, looping infinitely over these two calls:
<Fujitsu> read(3, "gpg: ", 4096)                  = 5
<Fujitsu> read(3, "waiting for lock (held by 15913 "..., 4096) = 53
<LaserJock> who create Automatix, etc.
<imbrandon> what REALLLY REALLLY makes me mad is when a bug is filed and points to a forum post instead of giving the summerized information needed
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yeah, that's annoying.
<ivoks> imbrandon: "wontfix" :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, the forums are really an entirely different community. Very few people go between them.
<Fujitsu> Which means we get Automatix and co.
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> which I see as a problem
<LaserJock> but something which I can do very little about
<minghua> Fujitsu: dpkg-source is supposed to check the signatures of the .dsc, but it should fail gracefully if it can't authenticate it
<Fujitsu> minghua, it's just hanging waiting for process 15913 to release the lock on something... But that process hasn't existed this boot.
<LaserJock> anyway, I try to look in the devel subforum now and then and try to post something if I see something totally wrong
<LaserJock> but that's about all I can do
<Fujitsu> ... devel subforum!?
<LaserJock> forums and IRC are time suckers
<Fujitsu> That's just wrong.
<LaserJock> why?
<imbrandon> there is a devel subforum ?
<LaserJock> of course
<Fujitsu> Because none of the developers go there often, it's just silly
<LaserJock> they have always had a suforum for the development release
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<zul> yippe skippe...xen-image-xen0-2.6.17-1-generic_2.6.17-1_i386.deb
<Fujitsu> Development /release/.
<Fujitsu> zul, yay.
<LaserJock> uggh
<Fujitsu> Gah. People reporting wengo broken dependencies..
<LaserJock> I give up :-)
<Fujitsu> In the forum.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-18
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
(ajmitch/#ubuntu-motu) zul: now everyone will want one!
<zul> ajmitch: a rough life? no  a 22 inch wide screen monitor maybe
<ajmitch> nah, referring to the blog post
<zul> heh
<zul> anyways my wife is telling me to go to bed
<zul> night folks
<imbrandon> gnight zul
<ajmitch> night
<bddebian> stupid libgcr410
<imbrandon> hrm are the ubuntu pbuilder/debootstrap scripts in debian proper ?
<ScottK> Not the versions that know about Ubuntu, AFAIK.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you running nvidia driver or nv ?
<imbrandon> ( on gutsy )
<gnomefreak> bryce: do you have a minute for some reason after implementing bulletproof X my gdm is too big for my screen, seems like a res. issue but i cant figure out how to change it, i talked with seb128 the other day and we were able to come up with gdm is fine but xorg might have caused it, and im assuming it was changed during the 200+ updates i had when i got home after a week
<minghua> ScottK, imbrandon: sid's debootstrap has all scripts for Ubuntu, from warty to gutsy.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: nvidia
<ScottK> minghua: Thanks.  I did not know that.
<gnomefreak> last i tried i couldnt build a sid chroot maybe a minth ago
<gnomefreak> it was failing i blamed dchroot TBH
<minghua> And FWIW, cdebootstrap seems to have Ubuntu support too.  I don't see any distro-specific stuff in pbuilder, though.
<StevenK> ScottK: What was the fix for courier?
<ScottK> Added the test for /var/run/courier ownership to the inits for courier-ldap and courier-mta-ssl where they were missing.
<ScottK> I discovered that /var/run/courier is supposed (on persistent systems) to be created by courier-authdaemon.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK
<TheMuso> Is it me, or is gnome-terminal broken after latest updates?
<rob> its working for me, actually it fixed a lot of little problems for me the last update
<rob> I'm on amd64 though
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<rob> nite bddebian
<TheMuso> rob: Have you restarted gnome/gnome-terminal since your last update?
<TheMuso> rob: I get the same behavior on two different systems, with totally different CPUs.
<rob> yes, I had to restart twice before it all worked though
<rob> no idea why
<TheMuso> me neither.
* rob just remoted back into his gutsy box to check and it is working
<RAOF> Ok.  One miro bug down.  Now, for the more difficult Xgl bugs.
<TheMuso> Ah found the bug report, and a temporary fi.
<TheMuso> fi
<TheMuso> fix
<StevenK> Does the fix include a new keyboard? :-P
<rob> nice
<TheMuso> StevenK: heh no, just setting a gconf value.
<rob> I'm getting a lot of the following when compiling nx on gutsy amd64 at the moment, am I right to assume it just doesn't like 64-bit?
<rob> Composite.c:204: warning: format '%ld' expects type 'long int', but argument 3 has type 'Window'
<rob> pbuilder eventually fails building
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:wayg] :  http://st-pitch.miniville.fr/  Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze in effect
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:RAOF] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze in effect
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: the Top 10 doesn't have its URL anymore
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: ignore me...I was looking AFTER
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Heh.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: I think I'm allowed to not be able to read after 1 am, right?
<RAOF> Seems about right.
<RAOF> Hm.  I wonder if my Xgl question will get more of a response here than in #ubuntu-desktop, which seems dead.
<StevenK> RAOF: Now I'm curious.
<RAOF> StevenK: Eeeeexcelent.
<RAOF> So, the problem is that Xgl breaks user-switching, for two reasons.
<RAOF> (1) It always tries to spawn a server on :1, which is on reflection stupid, and easily fixable by looking at the lockfiles in /tmp/.Xfoo
<RAOF> (2) 3D (often?) doesn't work for the second user's X server, and this breaks Xgl like a twig.
<RAOF> So, options that I can think of include: trying to detect if 3D will work, and only launching Xgl then (hard, from what I gather).  Not killing the login process when Xgl fails to start (also hard)
<RAOF> Messing with GDM's configuration to get GDM to spawn an Xgl server rather than an X server (a bit evil, but moderately easy, and should fix "compiz doesn't work for second user" as an added bonus).
<RAOF> Opinions?  Comments?  Suggestions?
<StevenK> You can't. GDM's configuration file is owned by gdm, and xgl can't play in that sandpit.
<RAOF> Yes, I know.  Evil.
<\sh> hmmm...anybody has problems with gnome right now?
<RAOF> GDM doesn't appear to have a "I check the files in this directory for config", which would make this problem much easier.
<RAOF> \sh: No, unless it's something more specific that I just haven't tried yet.
<\sh> RAOF: something is crashing all the time, I think it's the session manager
<RAOF> Bah!  Wine still sucks.
<\sh> RAOF: my gdm is not starting up
<\sh> -EITOLDYOUSO ,->
<RAOF> \sh: Wow.  No, I'm not seeing that.
<\sh> RAOF: gdm is totally black
<StevenK> It's the new theme.
<RAOF> Cool. :)
<\sh> RAOF: starting gnome via kdm brings the panel but all apps are somehow screwed
<StevenK> Black on black. :-P
<RAOF> StevenK: So, any contribution other than "you can't mess with conffiles owned by gdm"?
<StevenK> RAOF: No, sorry
<RAOF> That's OK.
<RAOF> I'll wait for mvo or Amaranth to appear then, they'll be prime targets :)
* RAOF looks at the wine bugzilla and decides not to file a "you suck on Xgl" bug.
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> dholbach: Good $TIME_OF_DAY
<dholbach> hey RAOF
<geser> dholbach: Morgen
<rastal> good morning
<dholbach> guten morgen geser :)
<dholbach> hey rastal
<rastal> :-)
<dholbach> how are y'all doing?
<dholbach> hey vil
<vil> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya ajmitch - how's it going?
<superm1> hey dholbach
<dholbach> heya superm1 - how are you?
<ajmitch> good, you?
<superm1> dholbach, fairly stressed :)
<superm1> tomorrow is the career fair, so i've been busy with LaTeXifying my resume and lots of other preparatory stuff
<dholbach> superm1: man... I wish you all the best with that!
<dholbach> ajmitch: quite good too, thanks
<dholbach> just getting ill and my gnome seems a bit bong too at the moment
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> stay well, please :)
<superm1> dholbach, thanks, still been (attempting to be) balancing items with ubuntu work and such though too.
<dholbach> I'll try my best :)
<superm1> dholbach, with your new position, are you still regularly going through ubuntu-main-sponsors queue?
<dholbach> superm1: yes, that's part of it - one of the first things I wanted to speed up is the sponsoring process, but I need to get better at nagging canonical people into doing reviews and uploads still :)
<superm1> cool okay, well i won't nag for the item that i've got in there then :)
<jussi01> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> superm1: which one are you talking about? the lirc upload?
<dholbach> hey jussi01
<superm1> dholbach, yeah i've got a lirc item in there
* dholbach hugs superm1
* superm1 hugs dholbach 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<geser> Hi Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> hi geser!
<huats> Hi all
<huats> jono: Oh by the way : Happy birthday... a little too late...
<jono> thanks huats :)
<huats> jono: I've just read you blog entry... at first I though it was today...
<huats> jono: whcih is mine !
<huats> jono: :-)
<jono> huats: happy birthday!
<huats> jono: thanks  :-)
<huats> does anybody can explain me a bit how kde is looking for icons that are referenced in .desktop files ? is it also in /usr/share/app-install/icons ?
<\sh> damn..my ldap is down
<jussi01> huats: I dont know if this explains it, but I think so. :) http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<huats> jussi01: first thanks for the link...
<jussi01> :)
<huats> jussi01: in fact I am actually trying to have a lok at bug #121984
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121984 in kdepim "kandy: no icon in kubuntu feisty's kde menu" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121984
<huats> jussi01: there is something unclear : if I understood correctly the idea is to nt dupplicate stuffs... so let the icons in the  kdeartwork-theme-icon package and not ship them with the kandy package...
<jussi01> huats: Im at work atm. Im sorry, I dont have time to look atm
<huats> jussi01: but the kdeartwork-theme-icon install icons in usr/share/icons/ikons/XXxXX/icons which is not a path where the icons for installed applications ...
<geser> huats: have you tried asking in #kubuntu-devel where (hopefully) the kubuntu experts are?
<huats> geser: nope
<huats> geser: I went here... to discuss that with MOTUs :-)
<huats> geser: but I will right now :-)
<\sh> guys, did anyone in here played around with the apache directory server?
<TheMuso> dholbach: I think I'll unsubscribe uus from 140426 as it is taken care of, and no longer needs to be on your page for sponsoring, or on the bug list.
<dholbach> TheMuso: ok great
<TheMuso> bluekuja: Re bug 94987, now that we are using LP: # tags in changelogs, there is no need to reset the bug back to fix committted. The upload automatically sets the bug to fix released, and so consequently, you don't need to add the acception info to the bug either.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 94987 in g3data "g3data lacks menu icon and mime-type binding" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94987
<TheMuso> As the changelog for the upload gets added, which is quite enough.
<Le-Chuck_IT1> Hi, a quick question: where does one put the png and svg files that will be shown in the gnome menu for an application in an ubuntu package? Upstream puts that in /usr/share/APPNAME/appname.svg
<Le-Chuck_IT1> but in the gnome menu the icon does not show up
<Le-Chuck_IT1> is there some "update-menu-icons" to run?
<Le-Chuck_IT1> and if so, should I add it to postinstall scripts?
<pochu> Le-Chuck_IT1: /usr/share/pixmaps/*.png, and /usr/share//icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/*.svg
<Le-Chuck_IT1> should I copy the icons in the "debian" directory?
<Le-Chuck_IT1> and then install them
<Le-Chuck_IT1> or should I modify the upstream makefile?
<pochu> For the first option, you don't need to copy them, just use debian/package.install
<pochu> But probably send a patch to upstream with a modified Makefile, and tell them that that's the freedesktop.org spec :)
<Le-Chuck_IT1> doing both! :)
<Le-Chuck_IT1> thank you
<pochu> yw :)
<Le-Chuck_IT1> and, er, upstream provided only an svg icon for the mimetype
<Le-Chuck_IT1> do I put that in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/mimetypes?
<Le-Chuck_IT1> I did this, and nautilus is not using the icon
<Le-Chuck_IT1> but now I manually set the icon
<Le-Chuck_IT1> and nautilus is not using it anyway :(
* pochu doesn't know about mimetypes
<Le-Chuck_IT1> ok thanks :)
<bluefoxicy> Is there a reason the pretty Gnome utils are being replaced by RedHat's system-tools packages?
<bluefoxicy> I really prefer the ones we have ... D:
<sladen> we generally follow upstream
<Hobbsee> eek, a month
* ogra imagines a developer polonaise
<Hobbsee> polonaise?
<ogra> "<sladen> we generally follow upstream"
<Hobbsee>      3. (Mus.) A stately Polish dance tune, in 3-4 measure,
<Hobbsee>         beginning always on the beat with a quaver followed by a
<Hobbsee>         crotchet, and closing on the beat after a strong accent on
<Hobbsee>         the second beat; also, a dance adapted to such music; a
<Hobbsee>         polacca.
<Hobbsee> ah right
<pochu> flood! :)
<zul> bluefoxicy: probably because they work
<bluefoxicy> zul:  mm?  The printer tool works well for me, aside from it not auto-configuring a printer on hotplug.
<bluefoxicy> that was the first to go.
* Hobbsee floods pochu
* Hobbsee defenestrates him for good measure.
<bluefoxicy> XD
* bluefoxicy gives Hobbsee a cookie
<bluefoxicy> Hrn.  The -rt kernels don't have drivers for most stuff, like nvidia or ati cards.
<bluefoxicy> i guess upstream closed source modules can't cope with the changes
<pochu> Hobbsee: what about the LongPointyStick? :)
* Hobbsee happily eats the cookie
<jussi01> bluefoxicy: when you are running the -rt kernel you dont want the heaviness of the proprietry drivers, if I understood correctly what one of the -rt devs was telling me.
<bluefoxicy> jussi01:  making heavy tasks (including kernel tasks) matter less to responsiveness is what -rt is all about.
<bluefoxicy> work time.
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> me too
<bluekuja> TheMuso, hey
<bluekuja> TheMuso, thanks for the hint
<bluekuja> :)
<TheMuso> bluekuja: You're welcome.
<bluekuja> TheMuso, :)
<huats> dholbach: Hi
<huats> dholbach: can I pm you ?
<lucas> are ubuntu-archive requests going to be processed at some point? ;)
<fernando> moin all
<geser> lucas: try asking the archive-admins in #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> hey huats, sure, go ahead
<dholbach> huats: sorry, was away for a dogwalk
<huats> dholbach: that was my guess :-)
<dholbach> hehe
<jwendell> hi, dholbach
<jwendell> dholbach, any luck on bug 134560 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134560 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  vinagre - vnc client" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134560
<dholbach> jwendell: I need to check it out again, but I'm busy with a bunch of other stuff - I'll get back to it, I promise
<jwendell> dholbach, thanks ;)
<Hobbsee> one day or another, at least.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hi all. Regarding bug #137934, should I open a _new_ bug with name UVFe: xournal 0.4.1
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137934 in xournal "Please sponsor xournal 0.4.0.1" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137934
<Le-Chuck_ITA> or can I leave things as they are?
<Hobbsee> Le-Chuck_ITA: you can just add the uvfe info to the same bug, etc
<Le-Chuck_ITA> thank you
<jussi01> !ping
<ubotu> pong
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wrong place to ask but do you know how to solve the problem that gconfd can't be contacted? I rebooted but nope, I have a terrible desktop now. gconfd and dbus are running (I checked with ps ax)
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi, I have a question, I have a PPA on launchpad, and I have added my repositories to my /etc/apt/sources/list, but my packages are only appearing in synaptic and command line apt-get or apt-search, how do I get them to appear in the graphical  manager?
<geser> you mean update-manager?
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK_: suggestion:  reread what you said, fix it.
<StevenHarperUK_> How do I get PPA packages to appear in the Graphical apt-manager?
<StevenHarperUK_> Yes sorry:@ I mean when you choose Add/Remove
<StevenHarperUK_> I want my packages to appear in there, they do when I choose use apt-search from a terminal
<geser> ah that one
<geser> gnome-app-install uses other data than apt/synaptic
<StevenHarperUK_> Do you know what I have to change?
<geser> gnome-app-install uses the .desktop files in /usr/share/app-install
<bddebian> Ho hum, what to do, what to do..
<StevenHarperUK_> geser : is there anything I can change to make it work?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: sponsorship queue.  get to it.
<bddebian> There wasn't much there last night
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: I guess you would need to install a .desktop file there, but I've no idea you could do it
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: installing the desktop file in one off your packages is useless because then you already have you packages installed
<StevenHarperUK_> Right so dist upgrades put new package .desktops in there ?
<StevenK> But ..... I thought StevenHarperUK_ was talking about things like the Commercial repo, which appear there.
<StevenK> Which are in /usr/share/app-install/channels
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it needs a manual mvo fixing each time
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: those files are installed by app-install-data
<Hobbsee> StevenK: as in, a manual mvo updating of every package in the archive
<StevenK> In the commercial archive?
<StevenK> I'm confused
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hobbsee: where can I find information about sponsored uploads for universe? I want to check that I did everything right since I used a new script by dholbac
<StevenHarperUK_> I have packages on my PPA , what I want is for users of my app to be able to just add my PPA repository to their sources.list then use teh graphical manager to get it
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I mean where is the relevant wiki page
<Hobbsee> Le-Chuck_ITA: the /topic
<Hobbsee> see the section on sponsorship
<Hobbsee> StevenK: in the commercial archive, in any archive.ubuntu.com/* as wlel
<StevenHarperUK_> I guess that I can't do it
<geser> I see no (easy) solution for it
<StevenHarperUK_> its a terminal only job - thanks for the help thou
<StevenHarperUK_> I understand more now
<StevenHarperUK_> ok im off back to work : thanks for the help
<geser> you would need to have a newer app-install-data in your ppa and get the user to upgrade to it but IMHO that's not a good idea
<StevenHarperUK_> Yeh I guess mucking about with that is a bad idea
* MehdiHassanpour I could finally create backport packages for Pidgin & Stardict feor feisty :-)
<jdong> awesome
<bigon> dholbach: are you there?
<dholbach> bigon: yes, I am :)
<bigon> dholbach: :)
<bigon> dholbach: could you activate the ppa for the telepathy team?
<dholbach> bigon: done
<bigon> dholbach: thx :)
<dholbach> de rien
<MehdiHassanpour> jdong: ty for help :-)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b %*!*@88.203.73.158]  by Hobbsee
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b %eagles0513875!*@*]  by Hobbsee
<tuxcrafte2> how do I match a specific command to its package?
<man-di> dpkg -S /usr/bin/command
<arthur-> +1 :-)
<arthur-> hello man-di
<man-di> arthur-: hello
<tuxcrafte2> man-di: thank you very much
<tuxcrafte2> that was it for today
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi all
<Le-Chuck_ITA> always here asking lots of questions
<Le-Chuck_ITA> now, can I just subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to my bug
<Le-Chuck_ITA> or is there a procedure to follow?
<pochu> The procedure is subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors :)
<pochu> as long as it's ready for upload
<Hobbsee> Le-Chuck_ITA: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#head-b205c74e27fe15e79e10c9e7f14d3cdfb359d81d
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok
<Hobbsee> Le-Chuck_ITA: also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<Le-Chuck_ITA> great
<arthur-> Hobbsee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRC_commands#deop
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<Hobbsee> arthur-: how disappointing.  it doesnt have remove, for freenode.
<mr_pouit> Hobbsee: and what was the _good_ reason for removing him? (there's nothing offending in what he said... :/)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I created a debdiff with debdiff
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and the patch "attempted to create file pixmaps/xoj.svg, which already exists"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> how is this possible?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> also: is it normal that debdiff created  a patch with "/tmp/G8hyu0HNDA/xournal-0.4.1ubuntu1/ChangeLog" in it?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I mean shouln't it just mention files _inside_ the source tree without any path?
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, just delete temp stuff
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ^
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ?
<bluekuja> if it gets created
<bluekuja> like this case
<bluekuja> you can delete it manually
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I don't understand what you mean: I call debdiff with the two dsc arguments, I "make clean" and "debuild clean" before debdiffing
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, yeah, just delete it manually
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but what?
<bluekuja> but nothing
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I mean: what should I delete?
<bluekuja> temp stuff
<Le-Chuck_ITA> there isn't temp stuff
<bluekuja> /tmp/G8hyu0HNDA
<Le-Chuck_ITA> no
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I think that debdiff created two dirs
<geser> edit the debdiff
<Le-Chuck_ITA> in /tmp
<Le-Chuck_ITA> to compare
<Le-Chuck_ITA> aaaaaaah
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, ...
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, edit the debdiff manually
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok now I understand what you mean
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes
<geser> it's normal for native packages that debdiff extracts them in /tmp and then runs diff
<bluekuja> yup
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I have the two source trees unpacked
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, so?
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, geser explained you how does it work
<bluekuja> so dont worry
<Le-Chuck_ITA> how should I invoke debdiff without making it extract the package in /tmp?
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, I think you cant
<bluekuja> geser?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hmmm but... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#head-b205c74e27fe15e79e10c9e7f14d3cdfb359d81d
<Le-Chuck_ITA> there it uses "patch -p1"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and does not mention editing the patch
<geser> I don't know of an option to suppress it
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, what's the problem?
<bluekuja> you dont have to edit the patch
<bluekuja> you are working on a debdiff
<bluekuja> and you get tmp stuff
<bluekuja> that's normal
<geser> Le-Chuck_ITA: usually you don't have the /tmp in the debdiff, this only happens on native packages
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, patch -p1 is to apply your debdiff
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes
<geser> you then need patch -p4 (iirc)
<bluekuja> when a MOTU reviews it
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Ok
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, but as geser said, it's normal to have it on native packages
<bluekuja> how you should move then?
<bluekuja> just delete tmp stuff manually
<bluekuja> on the debdiff
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> and there wont be problems
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I may look stupid but I still don't get one thing :) : should I edit the debdiff so that all occurrences of "/tmp/NVmlawJQiX/" are deleted?
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, yup, that's it
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so strange :) ok doing that
<bluekuja> /tmp/NVmlawJQiX should not be there
<bluekuja> so you just delete it
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, bug number?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> bug #137934
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137934 in xournal "Please sponsor xournal 0.4.1" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137934
<Le-Chuck_ITA> do I leave a / at the beginning of the file names?
<bluekuja> delete it too
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok
<Le-Chuck_ITA> now I have the other problem I mentioned
<Le-Chuck_ITA> The next patch would create the file pixmaps/xoj.svg,
<Le-Chuck_ITA> which already exists!  Assume -R? [n] 
<Le-Chuck_ITA> why debdiff added this file to the patch
<Le-Chuck_ITA> if it's already there in the original source tree
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I don't understand this
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, I dont know what you're trying to do
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, I dont know whats your debdiff
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I have the original source tree
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and my version
<Le-Chuck_ITA> which is the new upstream release
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I want to provide a debdiff that applies cleanly to the original source tree
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, why?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> (which I am deleting unpacking again for each attempt, of course)
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, why you are providing a debdiff for a new upstream release?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ahemmm
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I thought
<Le-Chuck_ITA> that I had to do this
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, is it UVF approved?
<bluekuja> we are on a new upstream freeze
<bluekuja> atm
<Le-Chuck_ITA> not yet but I have to provide a working package
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes I know
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I am trying
<Le-Chuck_ITA> everything is explained in the bug report
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but before subscribing the sponsors to the bug
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, before doing anything, you need to get an approvation from UVF
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I have to make the debdiff work no?
<bluekuja> with a good motivation
<Le-Chuck_ITA> motivation is very good
<bluekuja> to have it packaged inside the archive
<Le-Chuck_ITA> xournal cannot be used at all
<Le-Chuck_ITA> in gutsy
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but don't I have to provide a debdiff?
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, then add motu-uvf
<bluekuja> and get an approvation
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, then provide a dsc orig e diff.gz
<bluekuja> for the new upstream release
<bluekuja> not a debdiff
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, you can use a debdiff for bug fixes et all
<bluekuja> but not for upstream versions
<bluekuja> it would be great to have it on REVU
<bluekuja> (after approvation)
<ScottK> bluekuja: That's correct.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> (bluekuja: are you italian by the way) I thought that revu was only for new packages
<bluekuja> ScottK, :)
<ScottK> Le-Chuck_ITA: New and new upstream versions.
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, I'm italian yes
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I noticed the "e" in place of "and" :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I went crazy to provide the debdiff :(
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, ScottK can check your request and approve/reject it
<bluekuja> he's an UVF member
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Once it is approved, who prepares the new package?
<ScottK> What bug?
<ScottK> That would be you.
<bluekuja> bug #137934
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137934 in xournal "Please sponsor xournal 0.4.1" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137934
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, you
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Bug #137934
<bluekuja> will prepare the package
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ah ok so soon or later my work will be useful
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I feel better!
<bluekuja> and push it on REVU
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok
<bluekuja> then ping me or any other MOTU for a review
<bluekuja> and if ok, I'll upload it
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, I hope you know how to get on REVU
<ScottK> Le-Chuck_ITA: The UVFe lacks a copy of the build and install logs.  Will you sign up to be bug contact for the package?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I already am
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ehm
<Le-Chuck_ITA> should'nt I?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> we are not that many users of xournal
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, provide one then
<bluekuja> build and install log
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok
<ScottK> bluekuja: Since it's a new version, it only needs one MOTU ack.  If the UVFe is approved, you can dget it from his ppa and then upload it if you are happy.
<bluekuja> and post them on the bug
<bluekuja> ScottK, sounds great
<ScottK> I am, BTW, inclined to approve it, but want to see the rest of the information first.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> version on the ppa has a changelog reflecting other versions on ppa
<Le-Chuck_ITA> in the archive there should be only one changelog entry
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so I suppose it's better that I upload to REVU
<bluekuja> Le-Chuck_ITA, first of all provide requested informations
<Le-Chuck_ITA> where do I find an install log?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and does it suffice to provide the ".build" file output by debuild?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> as a build log I mean
<ScottK> Le-Chuck_ITA: If you built the binary using debuild, yes.
<bddebian> You want the pbuilder log, no?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes
<Le-Chuck_ITA> "yes, I build using debuild"
<bddebian> For the source package, right or do you use pdebuild?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I only used debuild
<bddebian> So you haven't tested a build in a clean pbuilder?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> only on ppa
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but I can do it here
<bddebian> Oh ppa, I don't know shit about those so I'll shut up :-)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> no I think it's a good idea to use pbuilder locally
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but still, what do you mean by install log?
<bddebian> build log.  Use --logfile option of pbuilder
<aantn> besides for checking build deps, is there any other reason to use pbuilder?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> bddebian: I also need an "install" log
<ScottK> It makes sure you don't bork your system if there's a problem in the package.
<aantn> and what does the .install file do?
<bluekuja_> damn, crashed
<aantn> ScottK: how could a bad package "bork your system"
<bddebian> Le-Chuck_ITA: I've never heard of an "install log"
<bluekuja_> Le-Chuck_ITA, I'm leaving now
<Le-Chuck_ITA> no wait just a asecond
<bluekuja_> fast please
<bluekuja_> in too damn late
<bluekuja_> :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> "The UVFe lacks a copy of the build and install logs"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> what is an install log?
<ScottK> aantn: For example if the debian rules tried to install stuff in /etc instead of debian/tmp/etc.
<bluekuja_> maybe install files
<bluekuja_> and install directories
<bluekuja_> of the .deb file at the end
<bluekuja_> am I right, ScottK ?
<aantn> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> Le-Chuck_ITA: When you dpkg -i the .deb, all the stuff that gets spit out that says it installed correctly.
<aantn> and what does .install
<aantn> do?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok thansk
<bluekuja_> ScottK, ok cool
<bluekuja_> leaving now
<bluekuja_> Le-Chuck_ITA, ping me later
<bluekuja_> for any help
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok thanks a lot
<bluekuja_> cya later
<ScottK> aantn: Don't think I understand the question.
<aantn> in the debian directory there is a file called "package-name.install"
<aantn> what does it do?
<ScottK> That lists the files to be installed for binary package package-name.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ScottK: I think I provided the logs, can you check if these are enough?
* ScottK looks
<aantn> ScottK: kk thanks
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hmmm "LANG=C" would be greatly appreciated in the future, I suppose
<ScottK> Le-Chuck_ITA: Looks fine.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Should I upload my package to REVU?
<ScottK> Le-Chuck_ITA: You need two motu-uvf acks to approve it.  I'm only one.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok but I still have to "assign to"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> the bug
<Le-Chuck_ITA> to motu-uvf right?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes I have to
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I see
<Hobbsee> subscribe motu-uvf, i thought.
<Hobbsee> isnt that what the docs say?
<bddebian> aye
<Hobbsee> otherwise it messes with my filters.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hobbsee: I am reading an italian translation so I wasn't sure
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but I see that it has to be assigned
<Le-Chuck_ITA> because the queue is https://launchpad.net/~motu-uvf/+assignedbugs
<Le-Chuck_ITA> as linked by the wiki page
<Le-Chuck_ITA> aaaah
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I was reading the italian translation not on purpose but because
<Le-Chuck_ITA> it is the first one I found
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but I see the english one is more up-to-date
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and also explains to use pbuilder, sorry for confusion
<ScottK> Le-Chuck_ITA: Any chance you would update the Italian one?
<bddebian> And don't mess with Hobbsee's filters or she breaks out the stick! :-)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Will put that on my todo list, but believe me, I spent all of today stealing working time from my ph.d.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's bug #137934 and I suggest it's worth approving.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137934 in xournal "Please sponsor xournal 0.4.1" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137934
<Le-Chuck_ITA> otoh the domain where I was reading is "ubuntu-it.com"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> which is unofficial I suppose!
<Hobbsee> bddebian: no, not really.  but i do read the UVF bugmail faster than i do the rest of kubuntu bugmail, mostm of the time.
<Hobbsee> because there's less of it
<Hobbsee> but still, those bugs tend to become obsolete if i ignore them for long enough
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Just ignore all of them like the rest of us ;-P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: it has been pointed out to me though, how close we are to release.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok I _subscribed_ motu-uvf
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and sorry for confusion again
<\sh> something happened to my gnome-terminal :( it doesn't show any fonts anymore...only a little dot
<Hobbsee> \sh:
<Hobbsee> update
<\sh> I did already to 2.20
<\sh> it was before 2.20 and now it's still there :(
<dholbach> libgnome2 update
<dholbach> that fixes it
<dholbach> restart your session with that
<dholbach> have a nice evening - see you tomorrow
<\sh> how do I do a libgnome2 update...
<dholbach> make sure you have this installed:
<dholbach> libgnome (2.20.0-1ubuntu2) gutsy; urgency=low
<dholbach>   * debian/libgnome2-common.gconf-defaults:
<dholbach>     - the dpi number is a float not an int (LP: #140540)
<dholbach>  -- Sebastien Bacher <seb128@canonical.com>  Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:49:34 +0200
<dholbach> and restart your session
* dholbach got to dash
<dholbach> see you
<ogra> \sh, you call your favorite sysadmin and pay him in pizza ?
<ogra> night dholbach
<dholbach> night ogra
<\sh> ogra, oh I'm my favortie sysadmin...and hopefully I catched all upgrades this evening
<\sh> oh I'm doomed with kabel-bw tonight
<\sh> Es wurden 5342kB in 5s geholt (1048kB/s)
<\sh> Konnte http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg_1.14.5ubuntu13_i386.deb nicht holen  403 Forbidden [IP: 91.189.89.6 80] 
<ogra> so enjoy the pizza then ;)
<\sh> WUAH
<dholbach> \sh: #ubuntu-devel topic
<ogra> thats intentional
* dholbach goes
<\sh> ophew...and I thought only in our company there is chaos ;)
<geser> \sh: you missed a broken dpkg :)
<bddebian> Not hardly.  We are nothing but chaos :-)
<\sh> geser, no...I just ran into it ;)
<\sh> how do I do selective upgrades with apt-get ? apt-get upgrade <packagename>?
<geser> apt-get install <pkgname>
<\sh> oh wow...I never said this, but "yum update <pkgname>" is wonderful and very understanding ;)
<\sh> I think I have to implement this behaviour into apt-get...apt-get {dist-}upgrade for full upgrades...and apt-get upgrade <pkgname> for selective updates
<\sh> and if any eclipse specialist has time....we need the Apache Directory Studio as eclipse plugin very fast ,)
<ScottK> \sh: man-di and doko are the Debian Maintainers for it.
<\sh> ScottK, yepp...I'm working on a package for apache directory server...quite nice...and the upstream devs are very friendly :)
<\sh> yay..it's back...good terminal...lovely terminal
<MehdiHassanpour> hi my dupload has uploaded files once and now it keeps saying "Nothing to upload" how can I upload my files once again ?
<mlind_> hiya, any devs around that could trigger a package rebuild in build farm (that failed previously) ?
<geser> MehdiHassanpour: remove the .upload file
<geser> mlind_: you need an buildd admin for that and they are usually in #ubuntu-devel
<MehdiHassanpour> geser: no ~/.upload file :-)
<MehdiHassanpour> :-(
<geser> <pkgname>.upload
<geser> it should be in the same dir as the changes file you try to upload
<mlind_> geser: thanks
<MehdiHassanpour> geser: ty :-) done!
<Konstigt> argh. not possible to do apt-get upgrade on my gutsy (updated earlier today). see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/140777
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140777 in apt "apt-get upgrade crashes with Segmentation fault (core dumped)" [Undecided,New] 
<ScottK> Konstigt: Known issue being worked.
<ScottK> Konstigt: Downgrade your dpkg and dselect to the previous version.
<Konstigt> ScottK: ok. didn't find that bug on launchpad but I guess I've submitted a dupe now...
<ScottK> Konstigt: I'll dupe it for you.
<ScottK> Konstigt: Done.
<Konstigt> ScottK: ok. thanks.
<ScottK> The first bug was still marked private because of the retrace which is why you didn't find it.
<Konstigt> upgraded dpkg by doing dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/dpkg_1.14.5ubuntu14_i386.deb and now i'm back in business, my upgrade is now running
<ScottK> OK.  I didn't know the fixed one was out.  Thanks.
<zorg_the_false> q. i am trying to setup a repository, i remember there is 2 kind of repositories, one more complex than the other. but i dont remember the names of those 2 kind. anybody got them ? it would help my search for documentation
<bddebian> zorg_the_false: There are more than 2 but reprepo is the one I can think of off the top of my head
<zorg_the_false> bddebian: ok will google on it
<bddebian> Sorry, that's reprepro
<zorg_the_false> ok :)
<bddebian> apt-ftparchive is another simple one but probably not the best for creating a large repo
<zorg_the_false> bddebian: in my case i have only a few .deb (around 15) and i would like something light :)
<bddebian> Ah, then apt-ftparchive might be fine for you
<zorg_the_false> ok i will look
<zorg_the_false> bddebian: yep looks good, thanks :)
<bddebian> OMG soo many bugs... :'-(
<siretart> do meetings using the MootBot need to be registered somewhere?
<tonyyarusso> siretart: probably depends on where they happen.  anything in #ubuntu-meeting goes through the Fridge people.
<siretart> tonyyarusso: oh. I see. do you happen to know if any motu people are using mootbot?
<tonyyarusso> siretart: no idea, sorry
<leonel> ScottK:  ping
<ScottK> pong
<ScottK> leonel:
<leonel> scottk I've patched clamav   is there anyone there that uses  clamav-milter  to test it ?
<ScottK> leonel: Not that I know of.
<ScottK> Let's ask on #ubuntu-server.
<ScottK> leonel: How big is that patch?
<leonel> ScottK:
<leonel> -rwxr-xr-x 1 leonel leonel 3333 2007-09-18 13:36 56_cve-2007-4560.dpatch
<ScottK> leonel: Would you pastebin the patch?  That seems largish.
<ScottK> How about the other CVE?
<leonel> ScottK:  looking into  I'll have it ready
<leonel> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37826/
<ScottK> leonel: They didn't miss just a little, did they?
<leonel> ScottK:  How ?
<ScottK> The patch is not a matter of a minor mistake.  It's a class of input data validation that was missed.
<ScottK> Your patch looks (to my minimally trained eye) reasonable.
<leonel> I took  debian's  one
<ScottK> Sounds good.  I got a nice mail from the Debian clamav maintainer a few days ago about wanting to work more closely.
<leonel> that's great
<pkern> Yeah, more Debian-Ubuntu cooperation. :D
<tonyyarusso> How often does packages.ubuntu.com update?
<Mez_> are new packages being accepted into the repository atm? or should I just use my PPA for now?
<ScottK> Mez_: Unless it's absolutely critical for Gutsy, use your PPA.
<Mez_> ScottK, nah not really, just a Upstream version...
<ScottK> PPA then.
<Mez_> or wait for hardon
<Mez_> I mean herdy ..
<Mez_> grr
<geser> Mez_: hardy heron
<mdomsch> revu password retreival is down. known?
<mdomsch> another revu-key instance is already running
<mdomsch> check /tmp/revu-key.pid and PID 13476
<Mez_> mdomsch, one sec
<Mez_> mdomsch, ah apparently, I dont have access to the new system
<pkern> Possibly you only need to wait until the other instance terminates?
<mdomsch> pkern, same message for ~24 hours or more now
<pkern> mdomsch: Then contact siretart or sistpoty for assistance.
<ajmitch> try again
<mdomsch> ajmitch, works, thanks!
<mdomsch> danke Mez_ and ajmitch
<pkern> ajmitch: Are you able to mess with revu?
<ajmitch> pkern: sure
<pkern> ajmitch: Would it be possible that you create an account for me w/o the needed package upload? (Basically I want to be able to comment on packages, but I understand that I cannot "review" them yet as I am not a MOTU.)
<ajmitch> pkern: yes, it is possible
<pkern> ajmitch: Would be nice if you could do that. Key ID is B2CFCDD8 which should already be synced in as part of universe-contributors. I don't know when exactly the account is created but I thought on package upload.
<ajmitch> yes, try & recover with your debian.org address
<pkern> "another revu-key instance is already running"
<ajmitch> excellent
<ajmitch> try again
<pkern> ajmitch: Worked.
<pkern> ajmitch: Thank you.
<siretart> :)
<siretart> ajmitch!!! pkern!!
<ajmitch> siretart!!!!
<siretart> :)
<siretart> ajmitch: how's it going?
<pkern> siretart: Hey! (: "revu-key is already running" pops up when people try to recover their passwords.
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<pkern> siretart: Although I found on hint on that in that bzr checkout I have ajmitch fixed it two times already in the last half an hour. ;)
* ajmitch think it's not unlocking properly when used from the web page
<siretart> hmmm
<ajmitch> pkern: I fixed it?
<siretart> I have to admit that I didn't look at the closing too closely
<pkern> ajmitch: You probably removed the stale lockfile ;)
<ajmitch> you mean by blowing away the lock file? :)
<ajmitch> the one that should never be seen there when revu-key isn't running
<pkern> ajmitch: Well I wrote "fixed" at first. :-P
<siretart> sistpoty has written it initally, and Hobbsee has contributed a patch
<gnomefreak> does anyone else notice that compiz and desktop-effects were removed during upgrade (im guessing todays since i had it yesterday but i did end up reinstalling ubuntu)
<pwnguin> its fine for me
<pwnguin> but buggy
<pwnguin> or do you mean upgrading from feisty->gutsy?
<gnomefreak> buggy = normal
<gnomefreak> pwnguin: i did to test it
<pwnguin> ?
<gnomefreak> and it removed compiz and desktop-effects now everything is conflicting or screwed up deps
<pwnguin> afaik, upgrading from feisty->gutsy never enables compiz, but ive never upgraded having compiz installed
<pwnguin> i thought you meant "did todays updates disable compiz"
<gnomefreak> im wondering if that was due to dpkg bug but still i should beablet o install it. pwnguin it was added than removed
<gnomefreak> during that dpkg bug but i should beable to install them now and i cant
<pwnguin> if dpkg segfaulted on you, im thinking all bets are off
<gnomefreak> pwnguin: i have since fixed that
<pwnguin> by reinstalling from scratch?
<gnomefreak> no by installing the fixed version
<gnomefreak> ubuntu14 fixes the segfault
<gnomefreak> had to wget it but its installed
<pwnguin> what i mean is
<pwnguin> dpkg may have crashed leaving its data in an inconsistant state
<gnomefreak> but wouldnt installing new version of dpkg and running update fix that?
<pwnguin> no idea
<gnomefreak> i figured it would but there are a few things i can fiddle with in about an hour or 2 and see what happens
<pwnguin> apt-cache clear might help some
<gnomefreak> i have downloads going atm trying to get build evn. back up
<gnomefreak> once done i will try a few things
<pkern> siretart: What lintian version is running on revu's host?
<ajmitch> 1.23.27ubuntu1
<siretart> most probably outdated.
<ajmitch> which is current in feisty
<siretart> is there a lintian backport? If yes, let's install it
<pkern> It would be better if there was one, indeed.
<ajmitch> if not, let's install it anyway
<pkern> The current output is confusing at best.
<ajmitch> gutsy's lintian should install without any issues
<siretart> ajmitch: please do
<ajmitch> done
<pkern> ajmitch: Bonus if you re-run lintian on uploads not archived. ;o) (But that isn't strictly necessary.)
<ajmitch> that part would take a little longer
<Kmos> bug 140812
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140812 in feisty-backports "Please backport lintian from Gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140812
<pkern> Are backports also reviewed via REVU?
<ajmitch> no
<pkern> So http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/proftpd-dfsg-0709172310/proftpd-dfsg-1.3.0/debian/changelog is obviously invalid?
<pkern> .oO( I still have to find out why one could possibly need GNU libiconv on glibc systems... )
<ajmitch> I can't imagine what it's uploaded to REVU for
<ajmitch> since it's a modification of a feisty package, for a probably non-serious bug
<pkern> Heh, this is fun. The libiconv upload I reviewed earlier also targetted feisty.
<pkern> ajmitch: And it introduces a new package to fix the bug. ;o)
* ajmitch blinks
<ajmitch> huh?
<pkern> ajmitch: libiconv is not present in Ubuntu.
<pkern> Out of obvious reasons it would seem.
<ajmitch> ok, cyrillic support isn't something that's likely to get into proftpd in feisty
<pkern> ajmitch: So the correct procedure would be to state this fact and to archive the upload?
<ajmitch> yep
<pkern> ajmitch: Fine.
<ajmitch> and that there's a procedure for getting bugfixes into a stable release
<ajmitch> (patches on launchpad, subscribe the appropriate sponsors team)
<pkern> ajmitch: Could you point me to it, please?
<pkern> Heh. ;)
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU has info & links to other wiki pages
<pkern> ajmitch: Thanks!
<ajmitch> revu doesn't get looked at much between freeze & release
<pkern> ajmitch: I shouldn't look at it, too. Got to learn for examinations. *cough*
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> good luck with that :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: nicely put - "Accidently convert package to using debhelper"
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-19
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<ajmitch> hey TheMuso
<imbrandon> ello TheMuso ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<ajmitch> what's up?
<nixternal> alrighty, what is on the blocks for getting fixed today?
<ajmitch> bugs?
<K0brik> I am writing a finetuning script for Ubuntu Feisty on my system. Should I add it somewhere when I'm done
<K0brik> it is basically some gconf commands
<K0brik> and some kernel tweaking
* K0brik to show some respect
<K0brik> btw C is not 0
<_MMA_> Can someone tell me why Bug 140620 was assigned to Ubuntu Studio? Can a user do that to try to get it further attention?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140620 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[gutsy]  sound card stopped working with 2.6.22-11 for ICH7 pci id 8086:27d8" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140620
<TheMuso> _MMA_: Have you looked at the activity log?
<_MMA_> no
<TheMuso> That will tell you who assigned it to ubuntustudio.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<_MMA_> TheMuso: k. I got it.
<ajmitch> _MMA_: users commonly assign bugs when they shouldn't
<_MMA_> ajmitch: I did track it down. bdmurry at BenC's request assigned it to us as the user had this issue using the new -rt kernel we've been working on. Thing is I cant find if things work fine for him on -generic. In any case I'll chat with Ben about it tomorrow.
<ajmitch> fun :)
<_MMA_> :D
* TheMuso grumbles about debian maintainers removing files from a binary package for no documented reason, even though the files look totally reasonable to ship.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<robyarrrr> arr matey!
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: !!!!!!!!!!!!
<zul> hye Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian, zul!
<bddebian> I'm beginning to realize that I really probably should have something specific I work on :-(
<Hobbsee> bddebian: like the sponsorship queue?
<bddebian> Are "package includes py[co]  files really worth the delta with debian?
<Hobbsee> no idea
<Hobbsee> LP: #83860
<bddebian> What's that?
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<bddebian> Oh sure, hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> bddebian: just a bug from a changleog
<Hobbsee> Seveas: would you mind fixing ubotu to parse bugs with that syntax?
<Hobbsee> hiya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<RAOF> Heya Hobbsee, ajmitch bddebian :)
<Hobbsee> hi RAOF.  have you fixed the world yet?
<bddebian> Heya RAOF
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Nah, I've been busy.
<RAOF> I haven't even fixed Xgl yet :(
<ajmitch> that's ok, we can file a removal request for xgl
<bddebian> Don't feel bad, I don't fix anything :-)
<bddebian> haha
<Hobbsee> RAOF: darn you.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: And to cap it off, I'll have a whole bunch of marking to do after tomorrow.
<RAOF> Also, I'm tired.
* bddebian is tired of waiting for this dist-upgrade
<TheMuso> bddebian: Ensure you are getting the latest dpkg...
<Hobbsee> awww
<bddebian> TheMuso: Aye, thx
<pwnguin> so the guide to wminput suggests the following udev rule
<pwnguin> KERNEL=="uinput", MODE="0666"
<Hobbsee> siretart: you around?  i have a really stupid question.
<ajmitch> pwnguin: that seems a bit silly
<pwnguin> ajmitch: im not sure how to fix it though. they suggest a group
<ajmitch> what is uinput?
<pwnguin> im not sure but
<pwnguin> i use it in another package =(
<pwnguin> im guessing usb input
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: can you deal with the latest MOTU mail please?
<pwnguin> the debian fingerprint guys are moving forward on their stuff, and i know it uses uinput. it vaguely feels like a bug to have an authentication tool not owned by root
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you have root
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed, i do, but i dont actually know what my p/w on revu is - and it's asking me for it.
<pwnguin> hah
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hence the asking of the stupid question about
<Hobbsee> s/about/above
<ajmitch> removed, you can reply
<bddebian> Hrm, sure, I'll upload some dutch translation patch.. :-)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you could just fix the shell script too
<pwnguin> uinput.c: /* *  User level driver support for input subsystem
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: 'fixed', in a sense
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what'd you do?
<ajmitch> well the uploaders.gpg keyring wasn't owned by www-data
<ajmitch> it gets owned by whichever user 'revu-key update' was last run as
<Hobbsee> oh, classy
<ajmitch> so the script was failing on chgrp
<Hobbsee> yep
<ajmitch> I could remove 'set -e'
<bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> and jsgotangco
<bddebian> and jdong
<bddebian> and and and.. :-)
* bddebian goes back to being #ubuntu-motu greeter
<Hobbsee> bddebian: do the sponsorship queue instead.
<Hobbsee> bddebian: if you get bored of that, start fixing bugs, from #2.
<ajmitch> bddebian: if even I can fix bugs, you can as well
<bddebian> Hobbsee: There isn't much there to do
<bddebian> ajmitch: I can't fix shit :-)
<bddebian> TheMuso: You still around?
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't lie, get to work
<bddebian> Name something I've fixed. :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yes there is.  there are still 30K of bugs.
<bddebian> Hobbsee: In UUS?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm not going to sit here & argue
<Hobbsee> bddebian: in ubuntu
<bddebian> ajmitch: Come on, it's fun :-)
<ajmitch> no, it's really tiresome
<TheMuso> bddebian: Yes.
<bddebian> TheMuso: Now I remember what I wanted to ask you.  You are assigned to a libooc-xml bug but I was just about to request removal of that package.  Do you have a need for it?
<bddebian> Hmm, bouncy does crash
* jdong waves at bddebian, a bit late :)
<bddebian> :-)
<TheMuso> bddebian: Not that I know of. I can't remember why I assigned myself now.
<bddebian> OK I'm going to ask for removal.  It won't build with oo2c and xml support is built in oo2c now
<bddebian> So who knows python gtk? :-)
<ajmitch> probably quite a few people
<bddebian> Gawd I suck at debugging stuff
<imbrandon> ajmitch: am i not correct in saying that upstream should not put `debain/` in a release tar if at all possible , so we dont have to repack ( i know repacking is last resort ) etc, i'm trying to explain this to someone but its not comming out right
<imbrandon> and i'm not sure where its at in the policy if it is
<bddebian> Tell them to go ahead and have one, just remove it on make dist ;-P
<imbrandon> bddebian: right but make-dist is before they package the tar ;)
<bddebian> Uhm, shouldn't make-dist create the tar?
* imbrandon yawns
<bddebian> Drink more Mt. Dew!
<Hobbsee> he needs a bigger fridge for that.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> its oreo's and milk atm
<ajmitch> scary
<ajmitch> what happened to you?
<bddebian> Milk? WTF? You can dip Oreos in Mt. Dew, can't ya? ;-P
<imbrandon> heheh oreo's and OJ is better
<imbrandon> my wife hates when i do that
<imbrandon> LaserJock: goto sleep ;)
<RAOF> Oh, miro.  Why must you mock me?
<LaserJock> me??
<LaserJock> sleep?!?
<ScottK> Sleep is for the weak.
<StevenK> No no, sleep is for the week
<ajmitch> week after release?
<StevenK> Sounds about right
<imbrandon> :)
<pwnguin> this should be interesting
<pwnguin> wacom entries pulled from xorg.conf =/
<imbrandon> thats normaly the first thing i delete
<imbrandon> from xorg.conf
<pwnguin> that would be okay
<pwnguin> if i wanted my tablet not to work ;)
<pwnguin> i was rather hoping the conf file restructuring would hit gutsy
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: explain why bug 140864 is failed against ubuntu, please? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140864 in ubuntu "Not all Minnesota Team members are on ML" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140864
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: b/c LP is stupid and I couldn't think of a better way to send notifications to the team until the other bug mentioned is fixed.  Suggestions for less weird ways _very_ welcome.
<ajmitch> less spammish would be having a website product or similar for the team, with the team as bug contact
<tonyyarusso> hmm, that might work
<tonyyarusso> would it be easy to create such a product and then remove it if it became no longer relevant?
<ajmitch> probably, but I don't know the details of removing products
* tonyyarusso looks into creating products
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: are you aware of any other pseudo-projects like that?
<ajmitch> no, that's why I suggested a website product, since plenty of teams have something like that
<LaserJock> I see my pbuilder script has turned into a monster
<ajmitch> mine isn't public
<ajmitch> it's under lock & key on my disk
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: do you have a link to an example handy?
<ajmitch> no
<tonyyarusso> k
* tonyyarusso searches
<ScottK> Good night all.
<ajmitch> night ScottK
* ajmitch debates whether to go to the pub tonight for a LUG meeting
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK
<bddebian> I'm heading too, gnight folks
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: okay, I made something more sane - how do I remove it from Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> mark it as invalid
<tonyyarusso> done
<tonyyarusso> that all?
<ajmitch> cool, thanks
<ajmitch> that's all you can do
<tonyyarusso> ok
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<RAOF> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> heya RAOF
<superm1_> morning guys
<superm1_> dholbach, can you unsubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors from that lirc bug?  keescook uploaded it, but it still has a task in linux-ubuntu-modules which ubuntu-main-sponsors doesn't need to be subscribed for
<dholbach> superm1_: ok, will do
<RAOF> Oh, blargh.  Why won't Xgl do the decent thing and clean up it's lockfiles on exit?
<elmargol> I try to build a feisty package on my ppa. I get E: Package dialog has no installation candidate
<elmargol> I think dialog is in universe
<dholbach> elmargol: best to try #launchpad - check https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart - especially the bit about the 'ogre model'
<superm1_> elmargol, it shouldn't need to build depend on dialog, but the resultant binary would make sense to depend on something like that
<elmargol> Do i have to set the Section on every Package: section?
<elmargol> Or only at the Source:
<superm1_> well it won't hurt in any way to put it for every section
<StevenK> It depends if the Section is the same.
<siretart> morning
<dholbach> hey siretart
<\sh> siretart, very nice mail :)
<siretart> :)
* siretart hugs dholbach & \sh 
<siretart> \sh: I didn't suppose to post it to the mailing lists as well. but well, anyhow..
<\sh> siretart, the good thing is, that thomas knows what's going on...
<\sh> and I saw michael is already in the team..which is also very good :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hello all
<\sh> siretart, when you have time and fun, check out apache directory studio...it's an eclipse plugin which contains an ldap browser and scheme editor....REALLY GOOD CRACK :)
<ajmitch> hi siretart, \sh
<siretart> *headscratch*
<siretart> apache directory studio.. hmm. is this openldap or another ldap server?
<ajmitch> siretart: I commented out 'set -e' in revu-key, and changed ownership of the uploaders.gpg keyring, it was causing it to fail when run by www-data
<siretart> ajmitch: good catch!
<siretart> ajmitch: feel free to commit it!
<siretart> reminder to self: DO NOT close bugs with uploads to a (team-) ppa
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i do wish i could file bugs against my own ppa
<siretart> pwnguin: you could create a product, and file bugs against that
<siretart> ubuntu-backports is doing that for instance
<pwnguin> well, these are basically packages that gutsy+1 will pull in from the same place i did
<Le-Chuck_ITA> siretart: also use ntpdate in amd64 builders :)
<pwnguin> at which point, all the bugs will have to be refiled against them in ubuntu as well
<siretart> Le-Chuck_ITA: sorry?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> siretart: you were talking about a fix: (LP# ...) you commited or about fixing this in launchpad?
<RAOF> Le-Chuck_ITA: Ooooh, can you use that to make the amd64 builds actually work? :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I had an amd64 package built and it worked?!
<siretart> Le-Chuck_ITA: I'm still confused. I've uploaded test packages to a ppa, which closed bugs against packages in the ubuntu archive
<Le-Chuck_ITA> siretart: Ok so never mind
<Le-Chuck_ITA> dunno why, I thought you were going to fix the bug in LP :)
<RAOF> Le-Chuck_ITA: Oh.  I thought you were talking about bug #137185.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137185 in soyuz "Builds fail due to timestamp differences" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137185
<Le-Chuck_ITA> also
<Le-Chuck_ITA> :)
<dholbach> siretart: that's a LP bug
<dholbach> siretart: I filed it and hope it gets fixed ASAP
<siretart> dholbach: I'm subscribed to that bug ;)
<dholbach> ok great :)
* Le-Chuck_ITA subscribes to bug 137815 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137815 in ubuntu "Default firewall rules needed along with program to set up firewall (dup-of: 52449)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137815
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 52449 in ubuntu "Where is the firewall in Kubuntu" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/52449
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ahaha
<Le-Chuck_ITA> sorry
<Le-Chuck_ITA> typo
<RAOF> Heh.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> dholbach: To decrypt your password, type the following into your shell:  	> gpg -d <<EOT ; echo  	Now paste the text below, and enter EOT<return>   	another revu-key instance is already running check /tmp/revu-key.pid and PID 3202
<Le-Chuck_ITA> this on revu site
<dholbach> Le-Chuck_ITA: hm? I have my revu password
<pkern> The password recovery is currently buggy.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok, thanks
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and... ehm, should I just retry until success?
<pkern> Nope, some admin needs to remove the stale lockfile.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hmm
<siretart> again?
<\sh> I wonder if it's possible to run compiz on two screens
<pkern> siretart: Looks like that. ;)
<pkern> siretart: Is the source available somewhere?
<siretart> pkern: sure, should be on launchpad
<siretart> not sure if that changes have been pushed yet. there are some (site specific) revision in the branch on sparky that should not be pushed, though
<RAOF> Amaranth: Hey!
<siretart> stale lock file removed, and narrowed the lock
<Amaranth> RAOF: hey
<Le-Chuck_ITA> siretart: thanks
<siretart> this should unbreak diff.py
<RAOF> Amaranth: Xgl is broken in annoying ways!  Help me fix it! :)
<Amaranth> RAOF: hehehe
<Amaranth> RAOF: busy fixing compiz
<Amaranth> elmo's gnome-terminals won't fullscreen
<pkern> siretart: I did not find any locking stuff on LP, but k. ;)
<\sh> Amaranth, hmmm? F11 FullScreen?
<RAOF> Amaranth: Heh.  Works For Me(tm)
<siretart> pkern: oh. I see. looking at it
<Amaranth> \sh: right, in metacity gnome-terminal gets two configure events (because it's reparented) and so redraws itself
<Le-Chuck_ITA> siretart: I am in trouble just again
<Amaranth> \sh: in compiz it gets one, i need to make it get two
<RAOF> Amaranth: Aaah.  I see.  It's empty until you touch it?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I registered on REVU months ago, I then lost the passprase of my old key - I need to register again since key recovery is for old key
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I have registered my new key in launchpad and uploaded sources signed with the new key, to make the situation worse
<Amaranth> RAOF: NVIDIA FIXED THE BLACK WINDOWS
<RAOF> Amaranth: I know.  Also the VT switch bug, apparently.
<Amaranth> RAOF: that was fixed in 100.14.11
<RAOF> Amaranth: News to me.  It's still broken here (with sync_to_vblank on).
* Amaranth installs it
<RAOF> Amaranth: Plus, the kernel team are hard-a-work shoving the new biniary blob down the appropriate tubes.
<StevenK> What's a biniary blob?
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: Why did you keep the old key activated?
<RAOF> It's quite a lot like a binary blob, but with more personality.
<StevenK> RAOF: Thhbt
<RAOF> Also, someone has put some XFont-enabled emacs-snapshot packages into a PPA.  Dear lord that looks better.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I didn't save a revocation certificate at the time, because I didn't know a lot about gpg and keys
<RAOF> StevenK: That acronym means nothing to me :)
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: But the deactivation on LP might be distinct from that? (Although I did not try it.)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> pkern: I think I deactivated that on LP
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: It somehow can't force me to revoke my key if I just want to deactivate it.
<StevenK> RAOF: Blowing a raspberry
<RAOF> StevenK: Ah.  Right.
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: Well, there are still two listed on `https://launchpad.net/~vincenzo-ml'.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> you're right, deactivating now
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: I am pretty sure that two keys with the same email addresses confuse REVU.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I disabled the forgotten one, do you have to resync?
<pkern> REVU needs to resync the keyring then, yeah.
<pkern> (I can't do that...)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> how often does this happen?
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: Once a day by cron, and manually by admins, I got told.
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: i.e. the problem should autofix itself until tomorrow.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok, I will wait. A last question: I uploaded sources to revu signed with my new key, will they stay there?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok I am always here asking everything
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but is there a wiki page on non-native uploads?
<RAOF> Le-Chuck_ITA: In what way "non-native"?  You mean "debian native", or what?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I mean the ones with the original tarball, since I have to upload a new version to REVU...
<RAOF> Le-Chuck_ITA: What particularly about them?  You can include the original tarball in the source package by passing "-sa" to debuild, or dpkg-buildpakage.  Is that what you mean?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> This is what I mean but... ehm, I have the original tarball, do I have to put in the directory containing the source tree, and debuild will find it, or what?
<RAOF> Le-Chuck_ITA: It needs to be in the directory containing the unpacked source directory (ie: the parent directory of the source)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> RAOF: it has also to be named in a particular way, and, also, how does debuild know not to pack the whole source tree?
<RAOF> Le-Chuck_ITA: I'm not really following you.
<RAOF> Let me start a different way:
<RAOF> You have the upstream tarball, which you've downloaded and now want to package.
<StevenK> When a daddy bit and a mummy bit love each other very much ...
* StevenK smirks
* RAOF hits StevenK with a full-grown atlantic salmon.
<StevenK> Ouch, that tickles
<RAOF> First, you rename the tarball to "foo_version.orig.tar.gz".
<RAOF> Then, you unpack that tarball.
<RAOF> Then, you do your packaging stuff in the unpacked source.
* Le-Chuck_ITA types as fast as he can
<RAOF> Then, when debuild comes along to build the source package, diffs your unpacked source tree against the .orig.tar.gz, creating the "foo_version-0ubuntu1.diff.gz" and friends.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and, this is what it isn't doing!
<Le-Chuck_ITA> surely it's my fault but I don't understand where
<RAOF> Can you pastebin the output of your debuilder run?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I have xournal_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz  and xournal-0.4.1 (d)
<RAOF> Looks OK at this point...
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but maybe I have to append also ubuntu1 to the orig.tar.gz name...
<RAOF> No.
<RAOF> Can you pastebin the output of your debuilder run?
<RAOF> Presumably there's an error message hiding somewhere.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37885/
<RAOF> Le-Chuck_ITA: Your version in debian/changelog is wrong :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I have: xournal (0.4.1ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low
<RAOF> You've got 0.4.1ubuntu1 (which is for a native package), rather than 0.4.1-0ubuntu1
<RAOF> Is it a native package?  My guess is no :)
* Le-Chuck_ITA feels so shy
<RAOF> Eh, it's a simple enough mistake.
<pwnguin> so if someone files a bug against a universe package, is marking it invalid appropriate?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Depends on whether or not it's an invalid bug, surely.
<pwnguin> RAOF: i just did a search in launchad for invalid/wontfix
<pwnguin> from what i can tell
<pwnguin> at one point, lp was not for tracking universe bugs
<Le-Chuck_ITA> RAOF: dpkg-source: building xournal using existing xournal_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz - yeah!
<pwnguin> as mdz has several "we dont track unsupported packages in this system" replies
<pwnguin> (in 2005)
<RAOF> Oh.  That's no longer the case!  There are tons of valid bugs filed against universe :)
<pwnguin> thats what i thought
<pwnguin> theres a discussion in launchpad on closing bugs
<pwnguin> apparently some people want to mark bugs WONTFIX or something to indicate they're ignoring it
<RAOF> Yup.  This seems reasonable.
<pwnguin> i donno
* proppy hugs dholbach
<pwnguin> just because one person ignores a bug doesn't mean everyone should
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<proppy> regarding recently gutsy publish ubuntu2 version of poker-network package should I request a feisty-backport or a SRU ?
<proppy> or is it too late
<proppy> do not know if 'fixing crashing bug' is worth requesting a SRU
<Le-Chuck_ITA> dholbach: Bug #137934 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=267
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137934 in xournal "Please sponsor xournal 0.4.1" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137934
<propp1> is bug #137573 much more a candidate to feisty backport or SRU?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137573
<Le-Chuck_ITA> propp1: how long lasts feisty support?
<propp1> Le-Chuck_ITA: you mean by upstream ? or by ubuntu ?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> by ubuntu
<dholbach> Le-Chuck_ITA: checking it out
<dholbach> Le-Chuck_ITA: normally it's just enough to follow up on the bug report
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hmmm, you're subscribed via ubuntu-bugs so
<Le-Chuck_ITA> sorry, didn't mean to push you
<propp1> dholbach: where should I follow up the bug report ?
<dholbach> Le-Chuck_ITA: no problem
<dholbach> propp1: I don't know what you are referring to?
<propp1> (10:45:24 AM) dholbach: Le-Chuck_ITA: normally it's just enough to follow up on the bug report
<propp1> sorry I must have missunderstood
<dholbach> propp1: I was talking to Le-Chuck_ITA :)
<dholbach> no problem
<Le-Chuck_ITA> propp1 it was because I pinged him on IRC
<dholbach> Le-Chuck_ITA: this change should not be necessary:
<dholbach> --- xournal-0.3.3/debian/control        2007-09-19 10:45:48.000000000 +0200
<dholbach> +++ xournal-0.4.1/debian/control        2007-09-19 10:45:41.000000000 +0200
<dholbach> @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
<dholbach>  Source: xournal
<dholbach> -Section: x11
<dholbach> +Section: universe/x11
<dholbach>  Priority: optional
<dholbach>  Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<dholbach>  XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Mathieu Bouchard <mbouchar@bioinfo.ulaval.ca>
<dholbach> I can fix it if you like
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes please
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> test building it
<pkern> dholbach: Daniel, when is the `universe/' bit necessary? I know that packages get promoted w/o source changes to main, but according to lp-users you sometimes have to add it...
<dholbach> pkern: that's just for PPA uploads
<pkern> dholbach: Ok.
<dholbach> cf. https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart -> 'ogre model'
<dholbach> apart from that it should not be necessary at all
<pkern> dholbach: Does it hurt if it is uploaded to Ubuntu proper with this change? i.e. PPA packages could not be uploaded verbatim?
<dholbach> we override it in LP for archive.ubuntu.com anyway
<dholbach> pkern: it would not hurt, no
<dholbach> pkern: I just removed it because it's a change vs the debian package and I noticed it before the upload :)
<dholbach> pkern: but right, I see your point - it's not nice
<Le-Chuck_ITA> in any case a ppa package is likely to have a different changelog
<pkern> That would not hurt, would it?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> we should ask the LP folks in the next PPA session what their plans are for that
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes but you can't upload a ppa package
<dholbach> we should chime in on a specficiation dealing with copying over sources
<Le-Chuck_ITA> you have to edit the changelog to reflect ubuntu versions
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: So your point is that you have to edit the package anyway.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes at least for now
<propp1> Le-Chuck_ITA: do not know about feisty support
<Le-Chuck_ITA> It was just my theory that if feisty is going to be unsupported an SRU does not make much sense now
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but I don't know for sure
<propp1> how ok
<propp1> you mean as feisty is not LTS
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yes
<propp1> so a backport make more sense ?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> In my opinion yes and it's easier too
<propp1> ok :)
<propp1> Le-Chuck_ITA: thanks
<pkern> "Each Ubuntu release is supported for 18 months with security patches, fixes for critical bugs that could cause data loss, and extra translations."
<Le-Chuck_ITA> bug in question does not cause data loss but the package is completely broken
<Le-Chuck_ITA> would you advice SRU pkern?
<pkern> Le-Chuck_ITA: I am not the right person to ask I am afraid. (:
* Le-Chuck_ITA thinks he's not the right person too 
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I go back to my boring everyday maths, bye and thanks all for co-operation
<propp1> Le-Chuck_ITA: thanks anyway
<dholbach> siretart: I will re-start the thread regarding the packaging guide to ubuntu-devel@
<dholbach> siretart: I think that more people should have their say on it
<dholbach> siretart: I'll try to sum up all the pros and cons we pointed out on ubuntu-motu@ already
<propp1> bug #140909 filled
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140909 in feisty-backports "Please backport  poker-network 1.1.1-1ubuntu2 from gutsy to feisty" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140909
<propp1> should i suscribe anyone, or is it just fine like this ?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess
<proppy> dholbach: thanks
<siretart> dholbach: good idea. thanks!
<dholbach> siretart: great
<pkern> dholbach: There's a packaging guide? That's also one point in the draft response to your mail to me. Heh. :D (I did not yet come around to answer you, mainly because I have some examinations in October.)
<dholbach> pkern: I wish you all the best with those then!
<dholbach> pkern: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<pkern> dholbach: Thanks (:
<pkern> dholbach: That's really going into the right direction. Especially points like `where to begin' split into those who are new to packaging and those unfamiliar with Ubuntu.
<dholbach> pkern: we have a lot of documents on the wiki about that too
<dholbach> that's why I personally propose to move it to the wiki
<dholbach> but that's what the thread is about
<pkern> dholbach: Right. But one has to dig in the wiki to find those.
<dholbach> if you're on ubuntu-devel@ feel free to chime in
<dholbach> I personally would rather look in the wiki than on help.u.c
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> but right, in any case it should be more discoverable
<pkern> dholbach: Point is that when you are new, you really should to read a guide. Obviously that one could also be put on the wiki, as long as it links to all the needed articles.
<dholbach> right
<pkern> And too few people read the Debian New Maintainers Guide (and at least partially the Policy). \:
<dholbach> it'd be nice to have correct links and references all over the place
<pkern> Of course it's easier to keep something up-to-date if you put it into the Wiki. (But it could also get outdated there, of course.)
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> the main concern for some is that it's open to malicious editing
<pkern> But I doubt the usefulness of static lists like `https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-debhelper.html' -- a list of debhelper scripts.
<pkern> Those should be autogenerated from the manpages together with the corresponding description.
<dholbach> once it's on the wiki you can edit more easily ;-)
<pkern> Such things may be easier on static content than on wiki pages. \:
<dholbach> we could autogenerate stuff by using editmoin
<dholbach> but first we need to come to an agreement on that discussion
<pkern> dholbach: Just as a sidenode: Wouldn't the docbook source be easier to translate? Or is there `no use' in having translated versions of the packaging guide because we want that all devs communicate in English anyway?
<dholbach> pkern: that's a question you could follow up on the thread :)
<dholbach> people use the wiki for translations too
<dholbach> I'm not saying that it's perfect, but translating docbook is probably not what I'd call easy
<pkern> dholbach: Disclaimer: I'm not (yet) on ubuntu-devel. I probably should get my slrn in shape to access it via gmane... but well. ;)
<dholbach> :)
<proppy> I believe there is typo in https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ubuntu-sync.html how can I edit it ?
<bluekuja> proppy, you can't
<bluekuja> proppy, report a bug against packaging guide
<bluekuja> and someone will fix it
<proppy> ok
<proppy> in the packaging guide product on launchpad
<proppy> ?
<ajmitch> soren: if you have time, can you test out samba at https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eajmitch/+archive once it builds in the PPA?
<proppy> bluekuja: launchpad url?
<bluekuja> proppy, let me see
<bluekuja> proppy, use ubuntu documentation
<proppy> bluekuja: thanks
<bluekuja> proppy, like this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bug/69650
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 69650 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging Guide says "you a shell script"" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<bluekuja> proppy, thanks for reporting
<fernando> moin all
<bluekuja> hi fernando
<soren> ajmitch: Sure, will do.
<fernando> hi bluefoxicy
<fernando> ops
<fernando> hi bluekuja
<fernando> =)
<ajmitch> soren: thanks, I don't have much to test with here :)
<bluekuja> :)
<ajmitch> soren: I didn't put in the printer change, pitti wasn't entirely keen on it
<proppy> bluekuja: mine was dup of bug #97355
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 97355 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging Guide command error" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97355
<bluefoxicy> what
<bluefoxicy> 2.6.23 has a new scheduler ... and tickless operation.  :(
<bluekuja> proppy, oh it was already assigned
<soren> ajmitch: I don't have much of a test setup here, either. I intend to give it a quick spin, and if it flies, get it into the archive asap, so we have a bit of time to discover bugs and weed them out before release.
<ajmitch> it needs to go in today, to make it for beta
<ajmitch> be sure to check debian/patches/chgpasswd.patch, I did that quickly
<ajmitch> and I've been doing *far* too much PHP coding lately
<proppy> is someone up to review #140915 ?
<proppy> bug #140915
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140915 in ubuntu "Please merge poker-network (1.2.0-1) from debian unstable main" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140915
<ajmitch> this is a new upstream version, so you'll need to get a freeze exception from motu-uvf
<ajmitch> !uvf
<ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<ajmitch> looks like you probably have the info needed on there, but they need to be subscribed
<bluekuja> proppy, I see no debdiffs there
<bluekuja> and yes its new upstream
<bluekuja> so need an exception
<bluekuja> and a revu link
<bluekuja> if accepted
<ajmitch> soren: I'm going to have to sleep now, so if it all works out ok I can upload in the morning, or you may want to get it uploaded before then
<bluekuja> (not a debdiff)
<proppy> bluekuja: attached a debdiff
<proppy> oh ok :)
<proppy> lagging
<proppy> I've attached the necessary files
<proppy> except maybe the pbuilder.log which I need help with
<bluekuja> proppy, you dont need to provide a debdiff on this case
<bluekuja> look above
<elmargol> How do I sign a Release file?
<proppy> bluekuja:  I've followed the merge process in the packaging guide and the UVFs
<bluekuja> proppy, it's a new upstream release
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja> proppy, so you need an approvation
<bluekuja> from the UVF team
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja> we are on new freeze
<bluekuja> you know
<proppy> so next step is to suscribe uvf team ?
<bluekuja> yea
<proppy> ok thanks
<bluekuja> and provide requested files
<bluekuja> like build and install log
<bluekuja> and then subscribe motu-uvf
<bluekuja> and if accepted prepare a new package on revu
<proppy> and *THEN* I will fill a merge request ?
<bluekuja> no
<bluekuja> you just make a new package
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja> with the new upstream release
<proppy> *including* remaining ubuntu changes ?
<bluekuja> proppy, of course
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja> proppy, you have to keep those
<proppy> thanks a lot for clearing this up
<bluekuja> and maybe try to debdiff it with latest ubuntu version
<bluekuja> on the archive
<bluekuja> leaving for lunch
<bluekuja> brb
<proppy> bluekuja: some are already applied in the new upstream version, only a few in debian/control file remains, (as you see in the debdiff)
<proppy> thanks
<proppy> ls
<soren> ajmitch: When is "the morning"?
<ajmitch> ~8 hours
<soren> ajmitch: That's ok.
<ajmitch> given that it's close to midnight now
<proppy> Is universe activated by default in pbuilder ?
<ajmitch> no, it's not
<ajmitch> good night all :)
<proppy> how can I active it ?
<proppy> good night ajmitch
<RAOF> night ajmitch
<soren> proppy: prepend "universe/" to the section of the package you want to build.
<Fujitsu> soren: pbuilders don't have ogre-modle.
<Fujitsu> *model
<proppy> just found out pbuilder login --save-after-login
<zul_> morning
<bluekuja> proppy, anyway you just have to update it with new source
<bluekuja> and you're done
<bluekuja> proppy, dont lose changes
<bluekuja> of course
<proppy> I have to add universe to the /etc/apt/source.list *inside the base.tgz* to be able to pbuilder poker-network package
<bluekuja> proppy, no
<bluekuja> proppy, use pbuilderrc
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> way more fast
<proppy> cause rebuilding base.tgz is heavy and slow
<proppy> bluekuja: using COMPONENTS=main universe
<elmargol> I have a general question are .deb packages signed? Or is only the Release file signed on the repository?
<broonie> Packages aren't signed, trust is derived from the Release file.
<elmargol> ah ok so I only have to sign the Release files?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<bluekuja> proppy, yes
<bluekuja> uncomment it
<proppy> bluekuja: thanks
<bluekuja> proppy, np
<bluekuja> :)
<ScottK> dholbach: I have a change for ubuntu-dev-tools, but do not have bzr set up.  What's the best way for me to get the change uploaded?
<geser> ScottK: either do a bzr checkout, apply, commit or try to gate it through someone else :)
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<ScottK> geser: It's #2 I'm looking for.
<Hobbsee> hi geser
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, one fast question
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, is ok to modify a makefile.in without a patch system?
<bluekuja> (modify directly)
<bluekuja> geser: ^^
<geser> bluekuja: why should it be not ok?
<geser> I've done that in the past
<bluekuja> geser: by running autotools
<bluekuja> wont mess changes up at next revision?
<bluekuja> geser, but if you've done that in the past, it's ok then
<bluekuja> thanks
<pkern> bluekuja: You should ensure that the output of the autotool regeneration does not clutter the diff.
<geser> that could only be a problem when you change the generated files
<bluekuja> pkern, ok perfect
<bluekuja> geser, yeah, that's it
<geser> I usually patch Makefile.am and Makefile.in so the change doesn't get lost if someone runs autotools again
<bluekuja> geser, yep, that's what I was saying
<pkern> bluekuja: Uh, you said Makefile.in and I read configure.in...
<bluekuja> pkern, yeah, I'm talking about makefile.in
<pkern> bluekuja: Personally I would modify Makefile.am and re-run autotools on build.
<pkern> (In this case automake...)
<Fujitsu> pkern: Please don't...
<Fujitsu> Minimal diff is always good.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Is there a reason against it? Unpredictable builds?
<pkern> Fujitsu: I said autotools on build, not on clean, heh.
<Fujitsu> Adding dependencies and the like probably isn't ideal.
<Fujitsu> Cleaner to just patch various things, IMO.
<geser> pkern: when you use autotools during build you don't know if it still build in say 2-3 months because autotools change in between and now the package fails to build due to an error
<pkern> It's probably a question if the package defaults to maintainer mode or not. \: If the build system is regenerated when a source file (i.e. Makefile.am) changes, that would suck.
<pkern> geser: Well, in case of automake there are specific versions available to depend on. But yeah, that's the point with unpredictable builds.
<pkern> geser: But the same could happen on every build-dep that changes.
<geser> pkern: yes, but first you need to find out which version it needs
<pkern> geser: That's stated in configure.ac.
<geser> pkern: sure
<bluekuja> geser: it was  about http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9376568/rkward_0.4.7a-1ubuntu2.debidff
<proppy> bluekuja: how can I generate the install.log you've mentionned earlier ? with pbuilder ?
<pkern> geser: I don't know the Ubuntu policy about that, that's right. That's why I said "personally".
<bluekuja> proppy, just dpkg -i package.deb
<bluekuja> proppy, and C&P the output
<proppy> bluekuja: on a fresh debootstraped gutsy chroot ?
<bluekuja> proppy, yep
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja> geser: if that's ok
<geser> pkern: afaik it's mostly a personal style if you patch or regenerate
<bluekuja> geser: I move to test and upload it
<bluekuja> geser: looked at that debdiff?
<geser> bluekuja: for me that debdiff looks ok
<bluekuja> geser: k, thanks
<pkern> Those #>- lines look strange. o_O
<bluekuja> mmm
<proppy> bluekuja: ok
<bluekuja> pkern, why are like those?
<geser> bluekuja: I'm not sure but isn't there a $(DESTDIR) missing in the changed lines in Makefile.in?
<geser> I mean Makefile.am
<pkern> geser: Well spotted (:
<bluekuja> geser: where exactly?
<bluekuja> like here $(mkinstalldirs) /usr/share/applications?
<geser> yes
<bluekuja> yeah, destdir
<bluekuja> is missing
<bluekuja> in all of them
<bluekuja> also in uninstall-local:
<bluekuja> gonna ping him to fix those
<pkern> That is fun... they obviously messed with Makefile.in after generation through automake.
<pkern> bluekuja: At least it is not necessary to patch commented-out lines.
<bluekuja> pkern, yeah
<bluekuja> pkern, for this time, I gonna tell him to just fix destdir stuff
<bluekuja> without a patch system
<pkern> http://paste.debian.net/37525
<pkern> They do their own DESTDIR fixup, hah.
<pkern> Morons.
<bluekuja> :D
<proppy> bluekuja: is there a way to apt-get install the deps of a given deb files, for easy dpkg -i it after ?
<bluekuja> so the fix will get away
<bluekuja> at next autotools run
<pkern> bluekuja: La la la... they should have fixed the kde_ vars instead... so yeah, it would.
<bluekuja> proppy, apt-get build-dep package
<bluekuja> pkern, so you suggest a patch system then
<proppy> bluekuja: I mean the deps not the build-dep
<bluekuja> proppy, why not manually?
<proppy> bluekuja: for generating the install.log
<pkern> bluekuja: Rather beating upstream to use Automake in a sane way, heh.
<bluekuja> pkern, lol
<geser> proppy: apt-get -f install
<bluekuja> yeah that would be definitely better
<geser> but look what it wants to do
<pkern> bluekuja: But yes, because you could place a comment about that brokeness in a patch file.
<bluekuja> I hope it will make it geser
<bluekuja> pkern, ok, I comment the bug
<bluekuja> and ask for a patch system then
<bluekuja> I already asked
<bluekuja> but laserjock said it's not necessary
<proppy> geser: so to generate a valid install.log for UVFe => dpkg -i *.deb ; apt-get -f install ; dpkg -i *.deb > install.log ?
<geser> hmm, proppy I'm not sure but you could use piuparts for that
<soren> Fujitsu: Huh?
<proppy> geser: nice !
<Fujitsu> soren: Adding universe/ to the section won't do much in pbuilder...
<soren> Fujitsu: Oh, it's pbuilder? I though it was PPA.
<Fujitsu> `Is universe activated by default in pbuilder ?'
<Hobbsee> ScottK: looks like there are more blanket uvfe's?  where's the FAI one documented?
<soren> Fujitsu: Yes, I see that now. My bad.
<fernando> can i use ppa with other protocol?
<fernando> sftp?
<Fujitsu> fernando: Not at this time.
<fernando> Fujitsu, thanks
<geser> Hobbsee: didn't get fai a uvfe in bug #139637?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139637 in fai "new upstream fai 3.2.1" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139637
<Hobbsee> oh right, so i just missed it.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi geser
<proppy> suscribed motu-uvf for bug #140915
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140915 in ubuntu "Please merge poker-network (1.2.0-1) from debian unstable main" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140915
<zul> proppy: yes we know we usually get an email about it
<proppy> sorry
<elmargol> I created a feisty repository for gnunet. "deb http://gnunet.org/download/debian/ feisty universe"
<elmargol> I get Failed to fetch http://gnunet.org/download/debian/dists/feisty/Release  Unable to find expected entry  universe/binary-i386/Packages in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?)
<elmargol> Any ideas whats wrong?
<pkern> elmargol: It obviously lacks Packages files in addition to Packages.gz files.
<pkern> (At least so I guess, and don't ask me why.)
<pkern> Hm, it probably uncompresses the file and then checks the checksum...
<pkern> But I don't know that for sure.
<dholbach> ScottK: did you get that change uploaded already?
<MadMan2k> hi, is there some document describing how debian package versions are being compared?
<MadMan2k> I just wondered reading the PPA docs when I saw that an appended "~" lowers the version number
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: man dpkg, see teh part about --compare-versions
<MadMan2k> thanks, but is there als a more in detail documentation how to version packages?
<jdong> hmm speaking of that, it's probably not a bad idea to do a spec on ~ version number usage....
<jdong> I'm personally not satified with all the lettered names we currently use
<jdong> there should be some sort of tiered numbering priority, like ~0 for totally unofficial or experimental, ~1 for PPA, ~2 for backports, etc....
<Hobbsee> jdong: there is oen - i'ts mostly followed, too.
<MadMan2k> I sometimes also see "+" in version numbers - is there perhabs a spec covering those special characters?
<Hobbsee> jdong: of course, random packages from random places arent going to adhere to a ubuntu spec anyway.
<jdong> Hobbsee: right; where is this spec?
<Hobbsee> jdong: on how to do ubuntu versioning?  debian packaging guide, ubuntu packaging guides...
<Hobbsee> ppa's have no consideration of version numbers
<Hobbsee> backports is your domain anyway, so the rest of the archive wouldnt overly care
<jdong> right....
<jdong> I'll have to talk to an archive admin sometime about that
<jdong> I'd like to switch to numeric versions on backport versions....
<Hobbsee> ~backport1?
<Hobbsee> or whichever
<jdong> more like ~7.04backport1
<jdong> so that way at least I'm guaranteed the numbers increment per release
<jdong> and odn't end up with ~hoary > ~dapper issues :)
<Hobbsee> ah yes
<Hobbsee> that would be smart.
<Hobbsee> jdong: pretty much pick a system and use it
<Hobbsee> and update the backports doco
<jdong> yeah, and tell whoever manages the backports launchpad foo script to update to it
<jdong> I'll write a better section on the wiki on backport versioning :)
<MadMan2k> could you perhaps point me to the document on how to do ubuntu versioning? I cant find anything like that in the packaging guide...
<Kopfgeldjaeger> !packaging guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: the part about using upstream-version-0ubuntu1 ?
<Hobbsee> or adding ubuntu1 to debian revisions?
<Hobbsee> i thought that was there, the latter part would be in the merge documentations
<MadMan2k> no Im more intrested in the special cases like svn checkouts
<MadMan2k> some pakcages have a "+svn<date>"
<MadMan2k> some a "svn<revision>"
<jdong> that seems to be a convention set by the package maintainer
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: that's because you want the 1.0 to replace the 1.0+svn<foo>.
<MadMan2k> so theres no general convention on that?
<jdong> the svn<date> convention is carried over from the cvs<date> convention
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: there are a few, it tends to be personal preference - as long as you take upgrades into account
<jdong> svn also introduces an easier-to-reference unique revision identifier, hence the svn<revision> format
<MadMan2k> Hobbsee, so an appended "+" also lowers the version number?
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: 1.0+svn<foo> is wrong.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.0 gt 1.0+svn && echo true
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$
<jdong> + increases
<Hobbsee> oh, so +svn would usually mean +svn fixes.
<Hobbsee> as in, a later version
<jdong> Hobbsee: it's right if 1.0+svn means it's higher than 1.0
<Hobbsee> that's slightly confusing
<jdong> it's wrong if it is saying a pre-1.0 svn snapshot
<Hobbsee> although if you checked the changelog, all would become clear
<Hobbsee> exactly
<Hobbsee> in which case you'd use 1.0~svn<foo> or something
<Hobbsee> 1.0~beta<foo> is common enough
<MadMan2k> the thing is that I want to put some svn versions in my PPA, so I need to know myself :)
<Hobbsee> (all with -0ubuntu1 at the end, mostly)
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: is the svn version higher than the released version?
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: really, you can pick any version you happen to like the look of, as long as you make sure it wont conflict with any past, present, or future upgrades, from your or the ubuntu repository.
<MadMan2k> yes, so considering what you just said it would be +svn
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> the idea between using 1.0~ppa1 is that it's then less than 1.0, so if 1.0 makes it into ubuntu, it gets upgraded to that.
<MadMan2k> ok, thaks :)
<MadMan2k> *thanks
<Hobbsee> and there are some weird versions in the archive
<Hobbsee> -input-synaptics comes to mind
<Hobbsee> MadMan2k: aptitude changelog xserver-xorg-input-synaptics for some fun
<zul> Hobbsee: can you +1 for dkms
<Hobbsee> zul: just seen the mail.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: please upload that as appropriate
<Hobbsee> zul: or you can, if you wish.
<zul> at work dholbach would be better
<zul> or someone from the kernel team as well
<Hobbsee> zul: OK
<Hobbsee> oh, damned people who dont read the documentation.
<Hobbsee> is StevenHarperUK@gmail.com here?
<Hobbsee> hmm.  not on irc.
* Hobbsee wondesr why we dont silently discard any _i386.changes files, and associated files
<ScottK> dholbach: No.  It turned out to be slightly more complex than I thought.  Ther version I have now works for Debian, but not for Ubuntu.
<dholbach> ScottK: hrm
<ScottK> dholbach: The trick is that if you don't use the --mirror option pbuilder looks at the Ubuntu mirror even if --othermirror points you at Debian.
* jdong laughs.... Someone at KTorrent forums requested "less harddisk usage while seeding 19 torrents" as a feature..
<ScottK> jdong: Tell them to install Tracker and then after they remove it, KTorrent will feel like less hard drive usage.
<jdong> ScottK: lol :)
<ScottK> proppy: Are you there?
<proppy> ScottK: yep
<proppy> ScottK: I'll be always there for you
<ScottK> Heh
<jdong> haha
<bddebian> heh3
<ScottK> proppy: For your UVFe, one of the required elements is an install log.  In the case of your package it should be in a system that does NOT have any mysql bits installed already.
<ScottK> Demonstrate that it installs correctly and I'll ack it (you need two).
<proppy> ScottK: can I verify with you the procedure to generate this install.log
<proppy> ScottK: debootstrap gutsy gutsy
<proppy> ScottK: chroot gutsy
<proppy> ScottK: dpkg -i *.deb
<proppy> ScottK: apt-get -f install
<proppy> ScottK: dpkg -i *.deb
<proppy> is fine ?
<ScottK> You shouldn't need the second dpkg -i *.deb should you?
<ScottK> Generally yes and then whatever that spews on your screen, copy it into a text file and attach it to the bug.
<bddebian> Shit, stupid x264 is maintianed in svn
<ScottK> dholbach: Are you going to upload dkms?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: benc was going to
<Hobbsee> ScottK: the guy bumped the version number to not conflict
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  Just as long as someone does it....
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks for prodding me - the kernel team is on it
<ScottK> OK.
<proppy> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> proppy: Did you attach the install log yet?
<proppy> ScottK: working on it
<ScottK> proppy: OK.
<Hobbsee> bigon: uh, why @ Bug #141015
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141015 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Correctly pass path to dch" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141015
<MehdiHassanpour> geser: do you have a script to automate reprepro to add packages to apt repo?
<Hobbsee> (and it's in bzr)
<Hobbsee> bigon: it automatically scans to see where debian/changelog exists - why add hte extra part, which does exactly the same thing?
<Hobbsee> ie, why fix what isnt broken?
<jussi01> hmmm, could someone help me with this? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37930/
<geser> MehdiHassanpour: why should I have a script for it?
<bigon> Hobbsee: well I had some problem with update-maintainer when you are already in the debian dir
<MehdiHassanpour> don't know, just asked...
<bigon> Hobbsee: the changelog was not updated
<Hobbsee> bigon: from where is your update maintainer?
<MehdiHassanpour> any one has a script to automate reprepro to add packages to apt repo?
<Hobbsee> bigon: i've never seen that happen before, and i cant find it having been reported before.
<Hobbsee> bigon: it sounds like a bung script, and relies on $DEBIANDIR actually being defined.  is this always the case?
<bigon> Hobbsee: with debian telepathy bzr branch
<Hobbsee> bigon: er, that buggers up.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:/devel/network-manager/src$ dch
<Hobbsee> dch: debian/changelog unmodified; exiting.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:/devel/network-manager/src$ dch --changelog $DEBIANDIR/changelog
<Hobbsee> dch: fatal error at line 402:
<Hobbsee> Cannot find /changelog!
<Hobbsee> Are you in the correct directory?
<Hobbsee> (You could use --create if you wish to create this file.)
<bigon> mmm
<Hobbsee> so i'd say your script is screwed, and you need a later version fo update-maintainer.
<Hobbsee> but i'd also say that your fix is EB&W.
<bigon> Hobbsee: http://www.pastebin.be/5377
<ScottK> bigon: Move down one level in your source tree and try it again.
<Hobbsee> bigon: probably because it's looking for debian/control, not just control.
<Hobbsee> er, s/control/changelog/
<Hobbsee> bigon: so if you call your debian dir something else, then yes, it will probably break
<Hobbsee> fortunately, for all debian packaging, the debian dir is called debian/, so the fix is still EB&W.
<bigon> ScottK: well the bzr branch only contains the debian files
<proppy> ScottK: does the install.log generated by our packaging farm are ok to attach: http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/html/index.php
<ScottK> proppy: Looking.
<Hobbsee> bigon: how does it determine $DEBIANDIR?
<proppy> ScottK: there are ther result of the following command http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/d.txt
<proppy> ScottK: +	  chroot ${ROOT} sh -c "apt-get update && apt-get install --yes --force-yes ${INSTALL_DEBIAN_PACKAGES}" ; \
<proppy> ScottK: +	  echo 'deb file:///usr/src ./' >> ${ROOT}/etc/apt/sources.list && \
<bigon> Hobbsee: http://www.pastebin.be/5378
<proppy> before
<ScottK> proppy: I don't find and install log in there.  Can you give a link to exactly what you propose to attach?
<proppy> ScottK: yep sorry for that
<proppy> ScottK: let me regenerate it
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> does anybody has problems coming up with X ? since last update and rebooted the laptop now, I don't have an *DM starting up...and I don't see anything in the Xorg.0.log file stat X is starting
<geser> bigon: try adding "-c $DEBIANDIR/changelog" to the dch call at the end of the script
<bigon> geser: I'ts what I've done
<\sh> and startx is doing nothing...
<Hobbsee> bigon: working fine here.
<Hobbsee> bigon: i think yours is botched somehow.
<Hobbsee> as in, with a debian/ only checkout, named something else.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:/devel/kde3.5.7/kdenetwork/foo$ /usr/bin/update-maintainer
<Hobbsee> Maintainer changed to Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>.
<proppy> ScottK: http://farmpoker.pokersource.info/nohup.out
<Hobbsee> bigon: debian/changelog is hardcoded in dch anyway
<bigon> Hobbsee: yep it's why I pass the exact path of the changelog
<Hobbsee> bigon: but it doesnt wokr.
<Hobbsee> it breaks functionality
<ScottK> proppy: OK.
<proppy> ScottK: let me attach it
<proppy> ScottK: done
<proppy> bug #140915
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140915 in poker-network "Please merge poker-network (1.2.0-1) from debian unstable main" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140915
<bigon> Hobbsee: bigon@imladris:/tmp/libtelepathy-0.0.57$ ls
<bigon> aclocal.m4  ChangeLog  config.guess  config.sub  configure.ac  debian   INSTALL     libtelepathy.pc.in  m4           Makefile.in  NEWS    spec  tools
<bigon> AUTHORS     compile    config.h.in   configure   COPYING       depcomp  install-sh  ltmain.sh           Makefile.am  missing      README  src   xml
<bigon> bigon@imladris:/tmp/libtelepathy-0.0.57$ cd src/
<bigon> bigon@imladris:/tmp/libtelepathy-0.0.57/src$ update-maintainer
<bigon> Please execute /usr/bin/update-maintainer in the source folder.
<Hobbsee> bigon: yes, i used straight dch -i.
<Hobbsee> well, dch
<Hobbsee> bigon: what i'm wondering - why dont you call it as a hook when you build?
<Hobbsee> why manually run it at all?
<Hobbsee> oh, i guess if you do actually upload to ppa's.
<bigon> Hobbsee: I don't see the issue in adding the --changelog flag since you already need to run update-maintainer in the debian dir or in the top-level directory of the package
<Hobbsee> bigon: hmm.  actually, i'm wondering why u-m doesnt use dch to detect where the changelog and such is.
<jussi01> so anyone got an answer to my question?
<Hobbsee> bigon: as long as you dont bugger dch :P
<jussi01> Where Do i put the flags mentioned in this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37930/ (if you missed it earlier)
<Hobbsee> jussi01: unless you were on crack, you didnt install to a random prefix (which would violate debian policy).  more likely you dont have gimp-dev, or similar, as a build-dep.
<ScottK> jussi01: We don't have a pacakge named gimp-2.0
<Hobbsee> or at least, that's the usual case
<Hobbsee> jussi01: you'd need libgimp2.0-dev, at least
<jussi01> Hobbsee: ok, must have been on crack, only had gimp in there...no dev or nothin...
<jussi01> thanks
<Hobbsee> jussi01: that'll do it :)
<jussi01> :)
<Hobbsee> jussi01: you tned to need the -dev packages for it to wokr.
<jussi01> Hobbsee: yeah, I did know that. just well, its been a while since ive had time to package much
<Hobbsee> otherwise it with kersplatteth, as you see.
<Hobbsee> :)
<jussi01> lol
* Hobbsee heads to bed.  night all
<jussi01> gah, was just about to thank her...
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> Hmmm, next problem if someones got a min. what am I missing from my deps now? checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool
<pochu> jussi01: looks like libxml-parser-perl
<jussi01> pochu: thanks...
* jussi01 goes away to try and look less stupid...
<ScottK> Funny how saying you fixed the bug in debian/changelog because you planned on doing it "in a minute" isn't enough to actually solve the problem....
<jussi01> lol
<ScottK> proppy: Ack'ed by me.
<\sh> hmm...is there any search query for lp where I can find out which packages are in FTBS state?
<ScottK> leonel: How goes clamav?
<zul> \sh: look for ftbfs in the bug tracker?
<\sh> zul, you mean tagged as "ftbfs"?
<zul> yep
<\sh> let's see
<leonel> ScottK: Just Arriving in  30 minutes  I'll start over  to patch those 2 cves
<ScottK> leonel: Great.
<ScottK> zul: You up for looking at a UVFe?
<zul> not til i get home
<ScottK> OK
<\sh> zul, that's not much
<jussi01> could someone remind me of the correct syntax for closing a bug in the changelog file?
<arthur-> jussi01: LP: #nnnn
<arthur-> jussi01: and Closes: #nnnn in Debian
<jussi01> arthur-: thanks
<proppy> ScottK: thanks a lot
<ScottK> No problem.  Thanks for minding the Ubuntu version of the package.
<proppy> ScottK: What is the next thing I should do ?
<ScottK> proppy: Now the thing is for one of the other motu-uvf members to ack/approve it.
<ScottK> So, wait would be the answer to your question.
<proppy> ScottK: thanks a lot for clearing this up :)
<proppy> bye
<zorg_the_false> q. im trying to create a repository, and i got it working with dpkg-scanpackages. but it creates a warning in the user. because it is not signed. anybody know where i could find info on how to generate the files needed to remove this warning
<zorg_the_false> like which files are needed for the repository to be authenticated. where can i find documentation about this ?
<zul> zorg_the_false: why not use ppa
<zorg_the_false> because i need to build my own repository :)
<zorg_the_false> zul: i found it :)
<zorg_the_false> apt-ftparchive -c apt-release.conf release . <- to generate the Release file
<zorg_the_false> gpg --yes -abs -o Release.gpg Release <- to sign it :)
<leonel> when should I report a bug as public ?
<leonel> ScottK: clamav patches  done   clamav-milter needs testing
<ogra> always unlessits a big security breakage or has confidential data from you
<leonel> making it public
<leonel> it's been public in debian
<ScottK> leonel: Great.  Public was the right answer as the vulnerabilty has already been disclosed.
<ScottK> keescook: Could you please have a look at Bug 141073.  As leonel has said the clamav-milter patch is untested, but none of us use it so ...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141073 in clamav "Remote DoS and Remote execution" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141073
<gnomefreak> does anyone know where to set dpi at? seems mine is way too small from clean upgrade from feisty (clean == base install nothing added)
<gnomefreak> i dont have a setting in xorg.conf
<gnomefreak> i see font paths but no real setting for system wide dpi
<gnomefreak> 126x121 dots per inch should be closer to 96 97
<gnomefreak> maybe even 100
<gnomefreak> i cant find the bug that was first reported but if its set fix released either it wasnt fixed or it was messed with again :(
<_MMA_> gnomefreak: If it related to fonts its in Fonts->Details. (button at the bottom)
<gnomefreak> ok looking ty
<gnomefreak> wait i dont have that in xorg.conf
<gnomefreak> so im assuming you mean apppearance
<_MMA_> Yeah.
<_MMA_> I forgot we lost the Font menu. :)
<gnomefreak> its set to 96 :(
<_MMA_> hmm...
<gnomefreak> why is my res showing the numbers above
<gnomefreak> xdpyinfo | less shows dimensions:    1600x1200 pixels (323x252 millimeters) resolution:    126x121 dots per inch
<gnomefreak> all the fonts are set to 10 is that correct? seems a bit low
<_MMA_> I messed with mine.
<_MMA_> (font size that is)
<gnomefreak> i just bumped them to 12
<_MMA_> Maybe reconfigure xorg?
<_MMA_> After an update my terminal font was borked but a logout/in fixed it.
<gnomefreak> looks better but now kind of ugly maybe i just need to screw around with the settings but i would think this needs to be fixed if im not the only person
<ajmitch> soren: how would you feel about a UVFe for a package whose diffstat is like:
<ajmitch>  215 files changed, 3798 insertions(+), 1181 deletions(-)
<ajmitch> just a small python checker (pylint) :)
<ajmitch> this is mainly for kiko, he says that the current version in gutsy really doesn't work too well for what they need
<leonel> anyone knows if feisty will have a  postgresql  update  ?
<leonel> yesterday was   released  8.2.5
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-20
<crimsun>     libpq5 | 8.2.5-0ubuntu0.7.04.1 | feisty-proposed | amd64, i386, powerpc
<ajmitch> hi crimsun
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'd go for it.
<ajmitch> ScottK: cool, changelog is showing mostly bugfixes
<leonel> tanks crimsun
<ScottK> ajmitch: Bug #141013 is already filed.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141013 in pylint "Gutsy should use a new pylint package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141013
<ajmitch> yeah, it'll be a straight sync, too
<ajmitch> thought so, he's a LP developer :)
<ScottK> Assuming it builds for Python2.5.  I haven't checked.  There's a "Please build for python2.5" bug outstanding in the Debian BTS.
<ajmitch> they use a number of checking tools in their test suites
<ScottK> I didn't have time to test build it.
<ajmitch> XS-Python-Version: current
<ajmitch> I'll test build now
<ajmitch> building will be no problem, and I think that it'd be intended for python >= 2.4
<ajmitch> ScottK: bad news is that python-logilab-astng & python-logilab-common would need to be updated as well
<ajmitch> only other package that uses them is python-constraint
<ajmitch> they all share a common upstream
<keescook> ScottK, leonel: holy cow, that's a big patch to clamav.  :P
<leonel> keescook:  the diff came  big  but  there really was  3 files patched with  little changes   the bigger was for  clamav-milter
<keescook> leonel: ah!  a .orig file snuck in.
<keescook> +--- clamav-0.90.2~/libclamav/htmlnorm.c.orig	1969-12-31 18:00:00.000000000 -0600
<keescook> ++++ clamav-0.90.2/libclamav/htmlnorm.c.orig	2007-04-12 17:55:14.000000000 -0600
<leonel> should I redo the patch ?
<keescook> that's why it seemed big.  the rest of the changes look good.  Can you, yeah?  Also please adjust your changelog entry to look more like the ones here:
<keescook> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<keescook> (See "Template" in step 5)
<leonel> keescook:  but  how the orig got  into ?
<leonel> keescook:  I've just   dpatch-edit-patch   foo
<leonel> then  patch
<leonel> daaaaaaaaaa
<keescook> leonel: right, I think you didn't check for .orig files before exiting
<leonel> found it
<leonel> I've made a   diff   not  a  debdiff
<leonel> sorry
<leonel> doh !
<keescook> heh
<keescook> no problemo; let me know when it's updated and I'll get it published.  thanks for tracking down the fixes!
<leonel> it was a debdiff   ...
<leonel> where the orig  came from ??
<leonel> ok
<leonel> start over ..
<hendrixski> gnome 2.2 was released :-)  How soon will that end up in the repositories?
<pochu> hendrixski: it's already there... in the Gutsy repos
<ajmitch>   libgnome | 2.20.0-1ubuntu2 | http://nz2.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Sources
<ajmitch> ubuntu generally gets GNOME as it's released :)
<hendrixski> pochu, wow that's almost instantanious
<hendrixski> but is it getting backported to feisty?
<ajmitch> beta release is scheduled for just after GNOME releaase
<ajmitch> no, there are no backports of the whole desktop
<ajmitch> we've never done that, and I doubt that it's ever planned
<hendrixski> ajmitch, oh
<hendrixski> as a kind of newbie... may I ask why?  to unstable?
<ajmitch> because it's a large amount of work for no gain
<ajmitch> backporting several large components requires a lot of testing
<ajmitch> ubuntu's release schedule always follows gnome's, so with a bit of patience you'll get a shiny release with the latest gnome
<hendrixski> ah, Gnome is also on a 6 month release schedule?  good deal... I was wondering about that since I saw that they're at 2.20 after6 months, and my current one in feisty was 2.14
<ajmitch> no, feisty has 2.18
<leonel> after  exit   dpatch-edit-patch    leaves  a  dpatch with  the  .orig  file in it
<leonel> Am I doing something wrong ?
<hendrixski> apt-cache search gnome gives me: Version: 1:2.14.3.3ubuntu1
<leonel> but that's only with 1 file
<leonel> and the patch has 2 patched files
<ajmitch> hendrixski: you're probably looking at the wrong package
<ajmitch> since gnome is made up of a lot of separate packages, many with different individual versions
<hendrixski> ajmitch, oh... wow, i still have a good deal to learn about Ubuntu's packaging ...
<ajmitch> leonel: it could be that your editor is doing something funny, but I wouldn't really know for sure
<leonel> ajmitch: its   dpatch-edit-patch    foo
<leonel> ajmitch: then  patch -p1 -i  thepatch
<ajmitch> hendrixski: go to system->about gnome
<leonel> then exit
<hendrixski> I never even noticed the dpatch-edit-patch left .orig
<ajmitch> leonel: right, and did the patch apply cleanly?
<hendrixski> ajmitch, ah... you're right 2.18
* ajmitch is still using a system with gnome 2.14
<leonel> ajmitch: not to clean  2 warnings
<leonel> ajmitch: Hunk #1 succeeded at 1395 (offset 13 lines).
<leonel> Hunk #2 succeeded at 1475 (offset 13 lines).
<hendrixski> yeah, one of these days I should just take a walk on the wild side and install the unstable release in another partition then just mount my /home directory on both of them
<ajmitch> the unclean patching is possibly what created the .orig
<leonel> I guess  I'll go  with the power of the keyboard to apply that patch
<leonel> or is there an  "easy" way to fix it ?
<ajmitch> rm the .orig? :)
<ajmitch> you should be checking the patch anyway if it didn't apply cleanly, to make sure that the patch hunks applied in the right plce
<ajmitch> s/plce/place/
<leonel> ajmitch:  they did apply clean
<ajmitch> but you said that you got warnings
<leonel> yes
<leonel> I mean  I checked  the file  patched and  all the patched got applied
<ajmitch> and the default (as stated in the manpage) is to create a backup .orig if there's not an exact match
<leonel> yes  there's a  .orig file
<leonel> well
<ajmitch> I know, that's what you said the problem is :)
<leonel> I've learned another  motu tip
<leonel> one step  closer :)
<ScottK> So is Canonical people blowing off community processes something I should just accept or be bitter about.  Bug 141101 being the latest.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141101 in xorg "[UVFe]  Please sync xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd (universe) from Debian experimental" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141101
<zul> evening
<ajmitch> hi zul
<zul> hey ajmitch how goes it?
<ajmitch> it goes
<zul> ScottK: well users will want it then yeah no need to be bitter about it
<ScottK> Users want all this stuff people are trying to shove in at the last minute, or so we are told.
* ScottK ponders just approving everything.
<zul> just a regular day at canonical ;)
<zul> son of a *grumble *grumble*
<ScottK> What now?
<zul> liam woke up
<StevenK> ScottK: I'm just keeping in mind what Hobbsee said - a blanket no, except for things that are deemed important/special - my opinion is that radeonhd is special.
<zul> uvf is less stressful when you dont get upset about things I find ;)
<RAOF> Ok.  So, xgl leaves behind it's lockfiles when it's connection with the underlying Xserver dies.  It doesn't execute any of it's cleanup stuff.
<RAOF> Does anyone have an example of something that does that *right*, so I can check/learn/fix?
<ScottK> StevenK: OK, but if mdz is going to figure it all out, why do I bother?
<ScottK> zul: That's pretty much true of everything.
<LaserJock> geeze, you'd think by this point Main apps should generally at least start :(
<zul> well it is beta :)
<zul> or near beta...im off
<minghua> Well, as I've pointed on -devel list, some doesn't start due to missing dependency, yet nobody seems to care...
<StevenK> Is there a bug?
<minghua> s/pointed/pointed out/
<LaserJock> gnumeric: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libspreadsheet-1.7.11.so: undefined symbol: go_direction_get_type
<minghua> StevenK: yes, bug 139249
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139249 in scim "scim-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in scim::FrontEndModule::load()" [Undecided,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139249
<StevenK> LaserJock: That smacks of koffice
<minghua> LaserJock: Hey... that smells like a missing dependency too.
<LaserJock> well, go_direction_get_type is in goffice
<LaserJock> is it saying it can't find it?
<StevenK> minghua: This scim bug is a mess.
<minghua> StevenK: If you want a cleaner one, I can file one (and then propose for release blocker, etc.).
<StevenK> minghua: No no, just the chain I'm following through
<minghua> StevenK: But you apparently haven't seen _really_ messy scim bugs.
<StevenK> Twitch
<StevenK> I would suggest discussing it with Riddell on IRC.
<minghua> StevenK: You should just read my mail to -devel directly.
<StevenK> I did.
<minghua> StevenK: I am not really fond of trying to catch people on IRC to start discussion.  I am available if some core developer want to discuss though.
<minghua> StevenK: It's out of my reach currently, and I don't use Ubuntu daily anyway.  Thanks for the attention, though.
<ScottK> StevenK: I guess I've been a consultant too long.  I'm just not used to random bosses jumping in the middle of stuff I'm supposed to be doing.
<ScottK> \sh_away: I'd be interested in comments on the updated WINE package on REVU if you have the time ....
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: I'm going to try using apt-mirror for pushing updates out over a LAN to my 17-person computing class in uni - don't fail me now ;)
* jdong pets ubuntu.media.mit.edu :)
<jdong> local mirror FTW :)
<StevenK> jdong: It bet it gets a beating around this time next month
<StevenK> s/It/I/
<jdong> StevenK: can't wait :) welcome the hoards :)
<jdong> I'll be on full seeding force with my 4 100mbit ports in my room :)
<tonyyarusso> I don't suppose apt-torrent has made any progress?
<minghua> Is apt-torrent a different thing than debtorrent?
<tonyyarusso> jdong: ^^ (haha, you incriminated yourself by replying to forums posts)
<tonyyarusso> minghua: I think it's different implementations of the same concept.  I don't see either available in Ubuntu though
<jdong> tonyyarusso: oh? what did I say?
<tonyyarusso> jdong: "I have contacted the author of apt-torrent, and I hope we can work together to make apt-torrent a distribution method for Backports."
<minghua> tonyyarusso: Okay.  I just know that debtorrent is available in Debian unstable now.
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> tonyyarusso: lol wha'ts that from? Warty? :D
<tonyyarusso> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=35907
<jdong> a 5-digit threadid!
<tonyyarusso> jdong: Hoary I think, but a while ago
<jdong>  May 20th, 2005
<jdong> :D
<jdong> that was before we had gracious hosting by canonical
<jdong> and when poor ubuntu-geek was paying for 25GB/hr of traffic
<tonyyarusso> ah
<tonyyarusso> still, it would be nice for Canonical to save some cash
<tonyyarusso> looks like debtorrent is more current than apt-torrent, and is being looked at for Hardy?  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/106382
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106382 in ubuntu "[sync request]  Please sync debtorrent from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<tonyyarusso> See also https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-torrent
<dholbach> good morning
<Czessi> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey Czessi
<dholbach> how's it going?
<Czessi> nightship is over, going to sleep in the next few minutes
<dholbach> Czessi: sleep tight then :)
<Czessi> dholbach: thanks, i work to get run the rt2500 card run in gutsy. the driver includes in linux-ubuntu-modules freezes my system
<dholbach> Czessi: best to talk to bryce about that
<Czessi> dholbach: yeah, add to basket, thanks. someone add the bug to linux-source-2.6.22, but the driver is in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22. i hope i did the right changes in launchpad  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/133251
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133251 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "[Gutsy]  Network Manager freezes system when logging into a WPA WiFi network using ralink rt2500" [Undecided,New] 
<dholbach> Czessi: best ot ask the guys in #ubuntu-kernel later on today, most of them are in a US timezone
<Czessi> dholbach: i'll ask there
<Czessi> dholbach: do you present at the ubucon?
<dholbach> Czessi: no, I guess not :-/
<dholbach> and also not at the release party
<Czessi> dholbach: i'll present kubuntu, kde and kde4 and the release party and i'm present kubuntu and ubuntu at ubucon, practical linux (gieen) and linux info tag dresden
<dholbach> Czessi: woah... that's amazing
<dholbach> Czessi: great stuff
<dholbach> Czessi: when are you going to be a MOTU? :-)
<dholbach> Czessi: we should talk about that over a beer :)
<Czessi> dholbach: good idea, i'll be a MOTU between gustsy  and hardy. in the summer month i have much to work. to much crazy childrens in berlin holidays.
<dholbach> Czessi: right... it'd just be nice to have you in the team :-)
<Czessi> dholbach: i've some nice packages for hardy in my repo. buts to late for gutsy .... like kio-ftps (ftps-tls=
<dholbach> Czessi: it'd be great to have all that stuff in Ubuntu proper
<dholbach> hardy will be great :)
<Czessi> i think so, gutsy is also great (without the rt2500 stuff ;)  )
<Czessi> at th e moment
<Czessi> dholbach: i'm to get tired. have a nice day
<dholbach> Czessi: you too! :)
<Czessi> cu dholbach
<dholbach> see you around
* elmargol dreams of a ppa live cd :D
<Hobbsee> elmargol: "tell him he's dreaming, son!"
<elmargol> ?
<RAOF> elmargol: The Castle.  A movie.
* elmargol looks at imdb
<jussio1> lol
* jussio1 loves that movie
<Hobbsee> elmargol: you suck.  you're clearly not australian
<Hobbsee> RAOF: is clearly a proper australian.
<elmargol> There is only dessert in australia ;D
<jussio1> lol
<RAOF> Mmmm, dessert
<jussio1> what, chocolate icecream?
<jussio1> cheesecake?
<RAOF> Although s/ss/s/ and you're approximately true :)
<elmargol> desert :D
* RAOF watches a hypnotic electricsheep.
<RAOF> All glory to the hypnosheep!
<StevenK> RAOF: You know, hypnosheep went downhill in the 3rd season ....
* RAOF grins broadly
<StevenK> I gave up on electricsheep when I discovered it had downloaded 800Mb into my ~/.electricsheep directory
* StevenK kicks the Feisty version of youtube-dl for being broken
<elmargol> RAOF: is this movie form 1997 or from 2001?
<RAOF>  Um.  97 I think.
<jussio1> I need a picture that represents software....any ideas
<RAOF> jussio1: A big squiggle, with evil looking hooks protruding from odd angles.
<elmargol> jussio1: blue screen of death?
<jussio1> lol
<jussio1> no, no, no....
<elmargol> RAOF: A Melbourne family is very happy living where they do, near the Melbourne airport (according to Jane Kennedy, it's "practically their back yard"). However, they are forced to leave their beloved home, by the Government and airport authorities.
<RAOF> elmargol: That's the one.
<elmargol> find ./dists -name Packages.gz -execdir zcat Packages.gz > Packages \;
<elmargol> why doesn't this work?
<soren> ajmitch: Which package?
* proppy hugs dholbach
<proppy> ScottK: hi
<proppy> zul_: thanks for the ACK
<proppy> once the UVFe is approved what is the next step ?
<dholbach> hey proppy
<proppy> uploading my -ubuntu1 package on REVU (for revu?) ?
<proppy> or waiting for a MOTU to upload the package ?
<proppy> wiki says "  Once one of the  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading. "
<proppy> but where should I upload ?
<dholbach> proppy: the normal sponsoring process
<proppy> ok, so when zul_ says "+1 from me go ahead and upload." He is talking to me ?
<proppy> not to ScottK
<proppy> ok
<dholbach> yes
<proppy> So I should go thru Sponsorship process ?
<dholbach> proppy: I clarified that in FreezeExceptionProcess
<dholbach> proppy: yes
<proppy> describe on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<proppy> dholbach: I guess new upstream version is considered as a "new package", so I should get throught REVU/
<proppy> ?
<dholbach> proppy: no
<dholbach> proppy: 'NEW' means 'not in Ubuntu at all'
<huats> dholbach: Hi daniel
<huats> dholbach: thanks for your comments
<proppy> dholbach: ok
<huats> dholbach: and of course I'll be more tahn happy to coninue :-)
<dholbach> hey huats
<dholbach> huats: rock on :)
<dholbach> huats: best to talk about desktop packages in #ubuntu-desktop - maybe seb128 has another easy one to get working on
<huats> dholbach: I am heading there
<huats> :-)
<ajmitch> soren: context?
<ajmitch> ah, my question about UVFe earlier was for pylint
<ajmitch> but would have to be for python-logilab-{common,astng}, and maybe python-constraint as well
<ajmitch> all sharing the same upstream
<soren> ajmitch: Something about a diffstat about 11 hours ago.
<ajmitch> yes, I just scrolled up & found what I was talking about :)
<ajmitch> kiko wants it for use with LP testing, I think
<soren> ajmitch: Yes, but which package is it?
<ajmitch> 20:56 < ajmitch> ah, my question about UVFe earlier was for pylint
<dholbach> the wiki is a madhouse
<dholbach> myriads of cascading redirects, stale pages etc
<ajmitch> very true
<ajmitch> every time we've tried cleaning, we got stuck in the mess of pages
<dholbach> I hope http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/WikiCleanUp is a good plan
<dholbach> going through all pages with MOTU in the title, then tagging them, asking for feedback for two weeks, get stuff done
* Hobbsee waves the magic wand, and hopes to see it all done well
* ajmitch can identify with the quilt use case - I had to search for it a few days ago
<soren> ajmitch: Well, if we're certain it doesn't break python-logilab-common (the only rdepends of pylint), I'm fine with it.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<ajmitch> soren: which means that python-constraint needs to be checked -it's the only other user of python-logilab-common
<soren> ajmitch: Kiko asked for it directly or was he referring to an existing UVFe request?
<ajmitch> he asked directly, there was another UVFe request by another LP developer
<ajmitch> not sure which came first :)
<proppy> trying to use ppaput: It failed when signing with the following error http://paste.ubuntu.com/321/ any hint ?
<proppy> will try to use debuild and dput separatly instead
<bluekuja_> proppy, hey
<bluekuja_> what are you trying to do?
<proppy> uploading a package to ppa for revu
<proppy> following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<Hobbsee> proppy: use debsign *.changes -k<yourkeyid>
<Hobbsee> then dput
<proppy> ok
<Hobbsee> proppy: and/or stick this line in .bashrc.  GPGKEY=7D2BCE85
<Hobbsee> with your correct key
<proppy> ok
<Hobbsee> export DEBEMAIL=hobbsee@ubuntu.com is also useful
<proppy> thanks
<proppy> ok
<Hobbsee> againk with your correct email
<Hobbsee> proppy: it's probably looking for the wrong key
<proppy> maybe ppaput didn't manage to extract my email from the debian changelog
<proppy> DEBEMAIL=proppy@aminche.com ppaput my-ppa -sa did the trick
<proppy> thanks :)
<dholbach> proppy: I'll add a note to SponsorshipProcess
<Hobbsee> proppy: something in there sometimes dies somewhere.
<Hobbsee> proppy: i find after sticking those bits into ~/.bashrc, i never have a problem.
<proppy> Successfully signed dsc and changes files
<proppy> proppy@nekun:~/Desktop/20070920/UploadPokernetworkPackagesToPPA/poker-network-1.2.0$
<proppy> do not know if it successfully dput'ed
<proppy> (using ppaput)
<proppy>                  This PPA does not contain any packages yet.
<Hobbsee> did it show all the bits getting uploaded?
<dholbach> proppy: it takes a while
<Hobbsee> yeah, it takes ~20 minutes to show, iirc
<dholbach> proppy: is there a .upload file?
<proppy> yep in ../
<proppy> thanks :0
<proppy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/322/ tsugoi !
<dholbach> neat
<proppy> thanks, hope It will comment the bug report automagicly :)
<proppy> yes !
<proppy> is this  launchpad who auto-comment the bug report or ppaput ?
<bluekuja_> proppy, is the package on revu already?
<proppy> bluekuja_: As it's not a "new" package I thought that  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProces advised to upload it to ppa instead
<bluekuja_> proppy, ScottK already told you that, revu is used for NEW and new upstream packages
<bluekuja_> at this time
<bluekuja_> proppy, so, as I suggested you yesterday, you need to upload the package on revu
<bluekuja_> and put the link on the bug report
<proppy> sorry but I asked here just before following Sponsorship Process
<proppy> (10:35:00 AM) proppy: dholbach: I guess new upstream version is considered as a "new package", so I should get throught REVU/
<proppy> (10:35:01 AM) proppy: ?
<proppy> (10:35:08 AM) dholbach: proppy: no
<proppy> (10:35:19 AM) dholbach: proppy: 'NEW' means 'not in Ubuntu at all'
<bluekuja_> dholbach, ?
<proppy> Should I do both ?
<bluekuja_> proppy, maybe he misunderstood what was your request
<dholbach> bluekuja_: it's perfectly fine to use LP for sponsoring bugs
<bluekuja_> dholbach, yea, but revu is better to review them if they are new upstream or no?
<proppy> sorry for causing internal arguing :(
<bluekuja_> dholbach, I saw a lot of new upstream releases on revu atm
<dholbach> I think it's pretty much the same
<bluekuja_> dholbach, yeah, that's it
<dholbach> bluekuja_: if you look at motu-uvf bugs, lots of them were not on REVU
<dholbach> proppy: that's fine, don't worry :)
<bluekuja_> dholbach, so it's mostly a personal decision :)
<dholbach> yeah
<bluekuja_> proppy, no internal arguing :)
<bluekuja_> proppy, we just talk to exchange our ideas
<bluekuja_> :)
<proppy> bluekuja_: I guess PPA just sounded hiper to me :)
<bluekuja_> dholbach, ok thanks, and sorry for bothering
<bluekuja_> :)
<dholbach> have a nice day
<bluekuja_> you too, daniel ;)
* dholbach ponders lunch
* proppy hugs bluekuja_
* bluekuja_ hugs proppy too
<bluekuja_> :)
<bluekuja_> proppy, I'm currently checking it
<bluekuja_> proppy, do you think changelog desc is ok?
<bluekuja_> proppy, it's not properly a merge
<bluekuja_> you can just write New upstream release
<bluekuja_> with some details about it from upstream website
<proppy> Ok, I thought it was a merge cause there is still Ubuntu specific changes to be kept
<bluekuja_> proppy, yeah
<proppy> In the control files
<bluekuja_> proppy, but you should define
<bluekuja_> that is a new upstream release
<bluekuja_> proppy, mmm wait
<bluekuja_> proppy, unstable uploaded that as new upstream release
<bluekuja_> so you're correct
<proppy> yep
<proppy> is this a merge ?
<bluekuja_> I thought *you* packaged that for ubuntu
<proppy> nop
<bluekuja_> ok, that's correct then
<proppy> ok
<proppy> thanks for taking a look
<bluekuja_> proppy, np
<bluekuja_> proppy, I'm checking the remaining changes
<bluekuja_> atm
<bluekuja_> proppy, where did you find those changes?
<proppy> oops my upload tagged the bug report as "Fixed released"
<proppy> but I guess it's not released yet, only uploaded to ppa
<proppy> bluekuja_: synced from the debian package using merge.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> proppy: that's a bug in LP, already filed and hopefully soon fixed, please reopen the bug
<proppy> http://merges.ubuntu.com/
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja_> proppy, I dont see any ubuntu entry on the changelog
<proppy> dholbach: In Progress?
<bluekuja_> proppy, why?
<dholbach> proppy: sounds good
<proppy> bluekuja_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/324/
<bluekuja_> proppy, apart from yours
<bluekuja_> :)
<proppy> bluekuja_: oh ok
<proppy> bluekuja_: I should merge with ubuntu changelog ?
<proppy> bluekuja_: instead of overwriting with debian one ?
<bluekuja_> proppy, you did a bad merge
<bluekuja_> :)
<bluekuja_> proppy, changelog need to merged with changes as well
<bluekuja_> you dont have to overwrite it
<bluekuja_> with debian
<bluekuja_> that's why I dont see any ubuntu entry *apart* from yours
<proppy> bluekuja_: ok I just took the debian package, and overwrite control with the upstream provided control.gutsy
<bluekuja_> proppy, try to use grab_merge.sh file
<bluekuja_> please
<proppy> bluekuja_: I should do a proper merge of debian/ subdirectory instead
<bluekuja_> and work with it
<bluekuja_> proppy, grab that file
<bluekuja_> then create a dir
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja_> chmod it
<bluekuja_> and use it
<bluekuja_> like grab-merge packageonmerges.ubuntu.com
<bluekuja_> proppy, I see a conflict in debian/control, you fix it
<bluekuja_> and that's all
<proppy> Ok
<bluekuja_> upload it again
<bluekuja_> ;)
<proppy> thanks
<bluekuja_> I comment the bug out
<proppy> should I leave  -- Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic <mom@ubuntu.com>  Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:00:57 +0100 entry ?
<proppy> new package uploading
<bluekuja_> proppy, no
<bluekuja_> proppy, overwrite it
<bluekuja_> with your entry
<proppy> Successfully uploaded poker-network_1.2.0-1ubuntu1.dsc to ppa.launchpad.net.
<proppy> oups
<bluekuja_> :)
<ion_> I have two packages that obviously arent going to get to gutsy anymore, but is it sensible to upload them to REVU already for possible inclusion in hardy?
<bluekuja_> proppy, link?
<bluekuja_> ion_, you can upload to revu and get a review, but it will take some time
<bluekuja_> to get them inside
<bluekuja_> but you can start
<ion_> Yeah
<bluekuja_> to work on them
<ion_> Thanks
<bluekuja_> ion_, we work on some other things atm, so it will be harder to get a review
<bluekuja_> that's it
<bluekuja_> so need some more patience
<proppy> Successfully signed dsc and changes files
<proppy> ../poker-network_1.2.0-1ubuntu1_source.changes was not uploaded.
<proppy> strange
<ion_> Could an admin please resync the REVU uploaders keyring? I joined u-u-contributors.
<ion_> bluekuja: Yeah, its obvious the packages arent going to get any time soon, i have no problem with that. :-)
<bluekuja_> ion_, perfect, then
<bluekuja_> proppy, provide me the link
<ion_> s/get/get in/
<bluekuja_> to dget them
<proppy> ppaput failed to upload
<bluekuja_> oh :/
<proppy> Should I name it ppa2 ?
<bluekuja_> proppy, yeah, anyway I gonna change it
<bluekuja_> to a proper version
<bluekuja_> to upload on the archive
<bluekuja_> ;)
<proppy> appending ~ppa1 solved the probleme
<proppy> Hope It will overwrite the previous one properly
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<bluekuja_> heya DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> Hi Andrea. :)
<bluekuja_> proppy, when done, ping me
<bluekuja_> :)
<proppy> bluekuja_: uploaded
<bluekuja_> proppy, http://ppa.launchpad.net/proppy/ubuntu/pool/main/p/poker-network/poker-network_1.2.0-1ubuntu1~ppa2.dsc?
<proppy> ~ppa1 overwritten
<bluekuja_> ah k
<proppy> not yet it seems
<proppy> let me upload a ~ppa2
<proppy> it will be less confusing
<bluekuja_> better
<bluekuja_> ^^
<proppy> dget -x http://ppa.launchpad.net/proppy/ubuntu/pool/main/p/poker-network/poker-network_1.2.0-1ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc
<proppy> oups sorry
<proppy> Successfully uploaded poker-network_1.2.0-1ubuntu1~ppa2_source.changes to ppa.launchpad.net.
<proppy> better
<bluekuja_> proppy, ok, need to wait a while before
<bluekuja_> wget it
<proppy> yep
<proppy> seems so
<bluekuja_> error 404 atm
<bluekuja_> ^^
<proppy> the bug comment happen earlier that the actual files
<bluekuja_> proppy, did you get accepted mail?
<proppy> yep
<bluekuja_> proppy, you forget to change the maintainer too
<bluekuja_> to XSBC
<bluekuja_> proppy, gonna do it
<proppy> in the control files ?
<bluekuja_> yep
<bluekuja_> dont worru
<proppy> ok
<bluekuja_> *worry
<proppy> that's because I've overwritten in
<proppy> this was the conflicted one
<bluekuja_> ppa2
<bluekuja_> is still not there
<bluekuja_> now yes
<proppy> ye
<proppy> I just set the bug back to In progress
<bluekuja_> ok
<bluekuja_> proppy, on B-D you added python-central
<bluekuja_> and deleted python-gtk2-dev
<bluekuja_> am I right?
<proppy> iirc that was still the case in ubuntu2.debdiff
<bluekuja_> yup
<proppy> bluekuja_: according to debdiff poker-network_1.1.1-1.dsc poker-network_1.1.1-1ubuntu2.dsc I kept ubuntu changes
<ion_> Should i use hardy as the distribution for an upload to REVU, since the package isnt going to make it to gutsy?
<proppy> I mean I kept this specific changes as the patch to control file was forwarded and commited upstream to control.gutsy
<bluekuja_> ion_, I think yes
<bluekuja_> proppy, I'm trying to understand changes
<proppy> bluekuja_: let me know if I can help
<proppy> I've commited 2 patch to ubuntu1 and ubuntu2 versions
<proppy> of package 1.1.1-1
<proppy> which where merge merged upstream in 1.2.0-1
<proppy> norsetto also provided fixes to control.gutsy
<bluekuja_> proppy, I see  python-central in current ubuntu
<bluekuja_> proppy, got deleted python-gtk2-dev, libjson-perl
<bluekuja_> from debian
<proppy> bluekuja_: in b-d ?
<bluekuja_> proppy, yep
<proppy> bluekuja_: python-central was in ubuntu2 as well
<proppy> python-gtk2-dev deleted in ubuntu2 as well
<proppy> libjson-perl new in 1.2.0-1
<proppy> and need by poker-web test suites according to upstream
<proppy> +ed
<bluekuja_> proppy, libjson
<bluekuja_> has been added now?
<bluekuja_> I dont see it in 1ubuntu2
<bluekuja_> so has been added in debian?
<bluekuja_> or by you?
<siretart> wow. the new devscripts package in debian rocks!
<bluekuja_> siretart, :D
<bluekuja_> siretart, a guy was asking for revu keyring reload
<siretart> uh?
<proppy> bluekuja_: added in debian with 1.2.0-1 cause some new test suites depend on it
<bluekuja_> siretart, <ion_> Could an admin please resync the REVU uploaders keyring? I joined u-u-contributors.
<bluekuja_> proppy, ok
<bluekuja_> proppy, B-D looks fine now
<bluekuja_> proppy, lets move to depends
<siretart> bluekuja_: you can do that yourself now
<bluekuja_> siretart, ah yeah, you're right, where is that script placed?
<bluekuja_> or what's the name
<siretart> bluekuja_: sudo -u revu1 /srv/revu-production/bin/revu-key update
<bluekuja_> siretart, thanks
<bluekuja_> let me do it
<bluekuja_> proppy, what was changed in depends?
<proppy> from the debdiff I see libjson-perl added to python-poker-network
<proppy> dependencies
<ion_> bluekuja: Should i be able to upload now?
<bluekuja_> ion_, I'm updating right now
<proppy> bluekuja_: ttf-freefont added (but that was also the case in ubuntu2)
<proppy> oups no
<proppy> ttf-freefont was not in ubuntu2
<proppy> but was forwarded upstream by norsetto IIRC
<bluekuja_> ok
<bluekuja_> going for lunch
<bluekuja_> ion_, gonna ping you when done
<ion_> bluekuja: Thanks
<proppy> in bug #137573
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137573 in poker-network "poker2d crash (SIGSEGV) at startup" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137573
<bluekuja_> siretart, mv: overwrite `/srv/revu-production/uploaders.gpg', overriding mode 0664? chgrp: changing group of `/srv/revu-production/uploaders.gpg': Operation not permitted
<bluekuja_> chmod: changing permissions of `/srv/revu-production/uploaders.gpg': Operation not permitted
<proppy> bluekuja_: going to lunch, brb in nearly 1 hour
<bluekuja_> proppy, I dont know if I'll be here
<bluekuja_> maybe this evening
<bluekuja_> late evening
<bluekuja_> proppy, you can assign it to me
<siretart> bluekuja_: uh?
<proppy> bluekuja_: let's continue the REVU asynchronly on the bug report ?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja_: damn.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja_: where'd you see that?
<bluekuja_> Hobbsee, after updating keys
<Hobbsee> bluekuja_: oh right, so you're in revu1 now
<bluekuja_> siretart, I got that at the end of the update
<proppy> bluekuja_: assign or suscribe ?
<bluekuja_> proppy, assign
<bluekuja_> Hobbsee, yup
<Hobbsee> bluekuja_: er, were you running that as sudo -u revu1 -H ...<etc>?
<bluekuja_> Hobbsee, <siretart> bluekuja_: sudo -u revu1 /srv/revu-production/bin/revu-key update
<Hobbsee> right
<proppy> bluekuja_: and de-assign ScottK ?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja_: fix it, then :)
<bluekuja_> proppy, I dont know if ScottK wanted to take care of it, maybe you can ask him
<bluekuja_> and if ok assign me
<bluekuja_> Hobbsee, how? :)
<proppy> bluekuja_: ok
<Hobbsee> bluekuja_: no idea, but you have access to the code :0
<proppy> bluekuja_: let's eat I will take care about this this afternoon
<siretart> bluekuja_: for some reason, the keyring was owned by www-data. I changed that now to 'revu1', so it should work again
<bluekuja_> Hobbsee, :D
<Hobbsee> siretart: why would it have been?
<proppy> bluekuja_: thanks a lot for feedback and fixes :)
<bluekuja_> proppy, np and keep doing this good work
<siretart> Hobbsee: no idea right now. we need to investiage that
<bluekuja_> ;)
<bluekuja_> siretart, updating again
<bluekuja_> siretart, Hobbsee : works fine now
<bluekuja_> ion_, updated
<siretart> cool
<bluekuja_> ion_, you can try to upload it then ;)
<bluekuja_> siretart, nice fix :D
<ion_> bluekuja: Thanks!
<bluekuja_> ion_, let me know if something get wrong
<\sh> moins
<bluekuja_> heya \sh
<\sh> guys, I justinstalled a clean gutsy with latest updates...and somehow the shadow from the panel disappeard (compiz-fusion)...it's just a white square...the same with the menus and some dialog boxes...normal windows are ok
<ScottK> bluekuja_: If you want to do poker-network, that's fine.  Just please make sure it will install correctly on a system that's never had myssql (client or server) on it.
<ScottK> \sh: I'm thinking we REALLY ought to upload WINE before the beta.  Comments on the newest version on REVU?
<siretart> bluekuja_: what fix? I only did a chown
<ScottK> bluekuja_: Just assign yourself the bug if you want it.
<bluekuja_> ScottK, no well, it's assigned to you, so don't worry
<bluekuja_> siretart, yeah :)
<\sh> ScottK: I'll check this evening...
<bluekuja_> ScottK, I just helped proppy a bit
<bluekuja_> ScottK, for doing the merge in a proper way
<bluekuja_> ScottK, he uploaded a new package, you should check it et all
<bluekuja_> I'm leaving now, cya later
<zul> morning
<dholbach> hey zul
<zul> hi dholbach how are you?
<geser> Hi zul
<Q-FUNK> sumerian demi-god spotted.
<zul> uh ok
<zul> hi geser
<ScottK> propeat: Process wise what you had in the UVFe was fine (debdiff from the Debian version you want to merge).  That debdiff did have some issues (debian/changelog and needs maintainer changed to MOTU to start), but I'd prefer the traditional approach of a debdiff in the bug.  Please ping me when you've attached it.
<dholbach> zul: ok, still ill - how are you?
<zul> good still trying to wake up
* ScottK too.
<ScottK> First cup of coffee and all that....
<zul> coke works for me
<zul> usually
<ScottK> That's what I used to use.
<ScottK> 5 years in the Navy and I graduated to coffee.
<zul> meh i was surrounded by coffee fields growing up dont like the taste either
* Q-FUNK suddenly hears the village people's sailor song
<ScottK> It's an acquired taste.
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: Please don't.
<Q-FUNK> :)
<zul> dholbach: if you are ill then why are you here ;)
<Hobbsee> zul: insanity.
<zul> Hobbsee: works for me
<dholbach> tell me the last time you stayed in bed the whole day :)
<zul> uh pre-baby or post-baby?
* Hobbsee ponders...the whole day?
* dholbach rather prunes the wiki
<ion_> My packages showed up at REVU, but http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=debian@johan.kiviniemi.name doesnt seem to work. My key should have an elgamal subkey.
<Hobbsee> ion_: use the primary address in LP
<ion_> No REVU account for launchpad.net@johan.kiviniemi.name exists yet.
<Hobbsee> ion_: what was the email in the changelog that you uploaded?
<ion_> debian@johan.kiviniemi.name
<Hobbsee> ion_: interesting.  there's a p/w set for it
<Hobbsee> ion_: so it just hates you
<ion_> Heh
<StevenK> Or you've forgotten it. :-P
<ion_> Theres nothing to forget, im trying to get to see my password for the first time. :-)
<StevenK> Maybe the password is "Haha, fooled you"
<Hobbsee> no, it's "Hobbsee Rules All"
<Hobbsee> duh.
<ion_> :-)
<propeat> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> Pong
<proppy> ScottK: you want me to generate a debdiff from between the debian and my ppa package ?
<ScottK> proppy: I want you to generate a debdiff between the Debian package and what you wanted uploaded.  If that's to what's in your PPA, that's a pleasant coincidence.
<proppy> ScottK: what I want uploaded is what is in my ppa
<proppy> ScottK: dholbach told me to follow bluekuja_
<proppy> ScottK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<proppy> s/bluekuja_/SponsoringProcess
<proppy> I guess I can easily generate a debdiff between debian and the package I just generated
<ScottK> dholbach: When did we agree that PPA was part of the merge sponsoring workflow?
<proppy> Just wanted you to know there were packages on ppa that I thought will be reviewed before upload consideration
<ScottK> proppy: I've yet to look at anything in a PPA and it'll probably stay that way for a while.
<ScottK> BTW, PPA is the alternative way to do it.  The proper process is debdiff in a bug.
<proppy> Ok let me upload it
<proppy> let me remove the ~ppa2 from debian changelog
<ScottK> Can we PLEASE have a moratorium on random undiscussed process churn.
<ScottK> dholbach: ^^^
<jdong> ScottK: would it be a bad idea to do this stuff through PPA's? You get free reliable buildtests out of it...
<ScottK> jdong: I just want us to quit churning the process without discussion.
<jdong> ok
<ScottK> Personally, I find the PPA ToS unacceptable, but that doesn't stop other people from doing it.
<jdong> oh? what's notable in the ToS?
<TheMuso> IMO using PPA is annoying, as you would have to adjust the version number of the package, and it doesn't feel right to me.
<ScottK> I'm not comfortable with the bit that says that even if I upload perfectly FOSS stuff, if Canoncial gets sued, I have to pay their legal bills.
<ScottK> TheMuso: That too.
<jdong> mmm
<jdong> I suppose that's an indirect reference to uploading things like libdvdcss?
<ScottK> jdong: It doesn't matter.  They get sued, you are liable.  Doesn't matter how rediculous the lawsuit is.
<jdong> no I agree with that
<ScottK> I think we had a perfectly reasonable merge sponsorship workflow.
<ScottK> PPA is nice, but now people read the wiki and think PPA is the way to do it.
<proppy> sorry for triggering internal process mahiem
<ScottK> I know it says otherwise, but there is a lot more text about how to do a merge with PPA than there is about a debdiff.
<ScottK> proppy: Not your fault.
<TheMuso> I would have thought debdiffswould actually be easier.
<TheMuso> Theres more screwing around with PPA.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> I would want a debdiff an any case so I can easily see what is being changed from Debian.
<proppy> ScottK: btw the package I uploaded to ppa were bad
<ScottK> OK.
<proppy> ScottK: there is remaining upstream commit debian/patches
<ScottK> Let me know when you have something worth reviewing.
<proppy> ScottK: should I let the patches directory empty or remove it ?
<ScottK> Leave it.
<ScottK> Since you've got the patching system there, it'll be that much easier if an SRU is needed.
<ScottK> jdong: My major beef on process changes is this mess with trying to track packaging status in LP (beyond needs-packaging - in progress - fix released).  We are now doing everything multiple places, in multiple ways, and it's impossible.
* ScottK is probably quitting after Gutsy gets released.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: really?
<StevenK> ScottK: Why?
* ScottK just doesn't see the point.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Noooo! You are a great contributer!
<StevenK> And what TheMuso said.
<ScottK> 1.  Random process changes that are then "the way it's done and can't be changed".
<StevenK> "No PC RTC found" Well done kernel, you figured out the machine isn't x86
<ScottK> 2.  Wasting time trying to actually manage Universe development towards something working and then just getting ignored when it's at all incovenient.
* Fujitsu wonders if we can change the process changing process.
<ScottK> 3.  Tools/processes getting further and futher from Debian so it's less and less convenient to work in both.
<StevenK> I work on both. Fairly easily too,.
<StevenK> s/,//
* ScottK just doesn't feel things are going in a good direction and the stress is something I don't need.
<ScottK> StevenK: That's true today, but the clear trend is to LPize everthing and so that can't continue.
<broonie> StevenK: Lots of things use the same I/O controllers that PCs use.
<StevenK> broonie: Shush :-)
<ScottK> BTW, quitting doesn't, in my mind, mean disappearing.  It just means being more focused on stuff I actually care about and less on the distro as a whole.
* TheMuso sighs with relief.
<ScottK> That would be ~90% reduction though.
<ScottK> 4.  More care given about the feelings of random idiots than actually getting work done.
<ScottK> How could I forget that one.
<proppy> ScottK: bug #140915 updated with debdiff
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140915 in poker-network "Please merge poker-network (1.2.0-1) from debian unstable main" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140915
<ScottK> proppy: Thanks.  I'll have a look shortly.
<ion_> Should i request someone to review my packages in REVU or just wait for someone to take interest in them?
* TheMuso grumbles at the lack of reliability of the internode mirror of late.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: the feelings of which random idiots?
<Hobbsee> ion_: request - people arent looking at REVU.
<ion_> hobbsee: On this channel? On a mailing list?
<Hobbsee> ion_: either.  this channel tends to work reasonably well
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The one (in particular) I'm thinking of I already violated the CoC once over and I won't do it again by naming him.
<ion_> Ok. I uploaded http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=271 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=272
<ion_> No hurry with reviewing them, since they arent going to get into Ubuntu until hardy.
<proppy> ScottK: I've to move to another place, brb
<ScottK> OK.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ah yes, right.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<proppy> ScottK: back
<ScottK> Hi.
<ScottK> It's building now.
<proppy> ScottK: k thanks
<ScottK> The only thing I noticed is you left out changing the Maintainer to MOTU.  I added that.
<superm1_> how do people get away with local test builds without even changing the maintainer to something with @ubuntu.com?  Doesn't debuild complain?
<ScottK> proppy: Once I update my system, I'll test it and upload it if it's good.
<ScottK> superm1: It warns, but no longer fails as it once did.
<superm1> ah i see
<proppy> ScottK: thanks sorry for the Maintainer thing I'm not really used to
<ScottK> Not a big deal.
<ScottK> Just remember it for next time.
<ScottK> Of course there is a new kernel, new OOO, and new kdebase today, so the update is taking a bit....
<Hobbsee> ScottK: new kdebase today?  which one is that?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: ubuntu23
<Hobbsee> ScottK: dont bother downloading it, wev'e got another one asap
<ScottK> Already done.  Is it broken or just incomplete?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, it works
<Hobbsee> it just doesnt contain teh security fix
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Cool.
<ScottK> OK.
<dholbach> ScottK: I did not say that "this is the de-facto way to do it", so please calm down.
<ScottK> dholbach: Don't worry.  Odds are I won't be bothering you about it.
<dholbach> ScottK: What do you mean?
<dholbach> ScottK: if you read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess you will note that I point it out as an alternative method
<ScottK> Right.  And it should not be.
<ScottK> The defacto bit was about trying to status track packaging progress in two places.
<ScottK> We've argued it plenty before.
<dholbach> What do you mean in proppy's case?
<ScottK> No, in general.
<dholbach> I don't understand what you're complaining about rightnow
<ScottK> I've got a list.
<ScottK> Basically, it is my impression, that you have been unilterally altering the MOTU workflow without any consensus from the people in the community.
<dholbach> How?
<dholbach> By writing ppaput?
<ScottK> Similarly, I feel that motu-uvf is pretty pointless.
<dholbach> I think you're exaggerating - the team has been doing absolutely great work and you know that
<ScottK> Where was the discussion where anyone agreed that using PPA for a merge was an acceptable alternative to our normal workflow?
<dholbach> people have been uploading packages to all kinds of places
<ScottK> Not for sponsored merges
<dholbach> having them auto-built and downloadable in launchpad is a good thing
<dholbach> Why do you think motu-uvf is pointless?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: dholbach != mdz, nor the archive team.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Agreed.
<dholbach> You've been tracking lots and lots of release upgrades and verified lots of bits - that's very valuable work
<Hobbsee> i think blaming dholbach is unhelpful, because it's not his fault.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm not blaming dholbach for that.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: it's only any use if everyone follows it.
<dholbach> Are you looking for a clause somewhere in the docs saying "the TB or the release managers can override decisions" or what is your goal?
<Hobbsee> ask ScottK
<dholbach> I still think that the motu-uvf team is not pointless and I'm grateful that you guys do that work and I'm sure that everybody agrees on that.
<ScottK> dholbach: If there is a solid reason, I don't mind, but unless there is a rush, I think we should be consulted.
<ScottK> As an example, rather than mdz writing bugmail to go ahead and upload a package, I think it would have been more courteous for him to suggest to motu-uvf in the bugmail that he thought it would be a good package to uplaod.
<dholbach> Right
<ScottK> There is still a secret list of UME related packages that do not require a UVFe.
<Hobbsee> i gave you teh list, via irc.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Was that the complete list?
<ScottK> proppy: Uploaded.  Thank you for contributing.
<Hobbsee> afaik, pretty much.  but i dont work on mobile.
<ScottK> Right.  Me neither.
<Hobbsee> now that you know as much as i do, you could, of cousre, document it.
<ScottK> I'm not looking for you to document it.
<Hobbsee> so you're ranting because a person in this channel hasnt documented it.
<Hobbsee> how helpful.
<Hobbsee> sorry, a person NOT in this hcannel.
<proppy> ScottK: thanks for reviewing it so fast
<ScottK> It's a symptom of what is in my opinion a broader issue.
<ScottK> proppy: You're welcome.
<ScottK> Additionally, as that list covered both Main and Universe (IIRC) it's not my place to document it.
<zul> *grumble* *grumble*
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you can do the universe side, though.
<Hobbsee> the problem with marking it as SEP, is that someone else then should do it - and may or may not do it in your timezone.
<Hobbsee> s/timezone/timeframe/
<ScottK> Sure, but as you may have noticed my motivation level is a little low just now.
<ScottK> One of the risks of relying on volunteers.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what concerns me - if you whine about something that hasnt been done by a person who isnt in this channel - all your'e doing is ranting pointlessly - you may as well rant at your wall, for the good it does.
<ScottK> dholbach: Asked me to explain.  I'm explaining.
<Hobbsee> and you may well be dropping the rationale of other people, in the process - or certainly not being conductive.
<Hobbsee> i was referring to the mentions over the past few days about the UME stuff.
<ScottK> As far as that goes, Mithrandir was in the channel when we discussed it and I made my views known then.
<Hobbsee> true - and so the point in repeating them when he's not here is....
<ScottK> Mostly answering questions about why I'm so disgruntled.
<ScottK> I don't expect it to change.
<dholbach> But you must admit that "motu-uvf is pointless" is a bit much.
<ScottK> Sure.
<rexbron> what is standard operating procidure for upstreams that ship lots of (3rd-party) libs with their code?
<dholbach> If stricter rules is what you want and it really bothers you to not have them, we should discuss that somewhere, maybe on a list where people have time to think about what they write and it reaches more than a few people on IRC.
<dholbach> rexbron: we try to rip those things out and have those parts packaged properly.
<ScottK> dholbach: It's not that I want stricter rules, it's that I want some consensus on process change.
<rexbron> dholbach: Including modifying configure/make files so they look in the right place?
<ScottK> I think a lot of the recent process churn has been confusing for MOTUs and hopefuls alike and have made things more complex to little point.
<rexbron> dholbach: I will email upstream and see what they have to say on the matter
<dholbach> rexbron: that's great, if they can add a ./configure option where we can specify our own location for those parts, that'd be nice
<dholbach> ScottK: PPA was introduced, it has benefits, people want to use it
<ScottK> dholbach: OK, but then there should be some discussion about how.
<dholbach> ScottK: always when we had new opportunities we tried to use them
<ScottK> Sure, but let's talk about it.
<dholbach> ScottK: so people tried using bzr for their packaging
<dholbach> ScottK: you have to try things out to see if they're worth pursuing
<ScottK> Agreed.
<dholbach> ScottK: I did not say 'PPA is the way to go, shut down REVU'
<dholbach> and that makes a huge difference to me
<dholbach> so I don't understand why you let it bother you that much
<ScottK> For merges, I would still want a debdiff and to build it myself, so I find the use of PPA a potentially interesting addition, but not a substitute for the current process.
<dholbach> Right, I see your usecase
<dholbach> and I have debdiffs on my todo list
<dholbach> but as far as I can see that's not a reason to be angry like that
<ScottK> For REVU, during Feisty one could work in REVU on new packages and it was fine.  Now one has a bunch of extra (in my opinion pointless) LP book keeping to do.  It's not a help.
<StevenK> But PPA also means that people can build on amd64 and correct issues before they bug people to look at it.
<ScottK> Agreed.  That's why I say a useful adjunct to existing process.  Not an alternative.
<StevenK> (Since many people don't have amd64/don't run a long mode processor in it)
<dholbach> ScottK: we have people who like it, who are used to bug lists and we have loads of needs-packaging bugs anyway
<dholbach> if you don't want to touch them that's your decision - I'm not saying the current situation is perfect
<dholbach> but I feel we must try things to find the best alternative and improve things
<StevenK> ScottK: So someone says the package is on my PPA, and you say "Okay, come back with a debdiff, and I'll glance at the build logs on the PPA.", surely?
<dholbach> seb128 for example never wanted to do things on REVU, because he didn't want to bother to sign up for yet another page
<ScottK> Except it's not my decision when stuff gets uploaded based on the LP status and not because of what's in REVU.
<dholbach> and I know other people who thought exactly the wrong way
<dholbach> ScottK: what do you mean?
<ScottK> StevenK: Sure, but that's not what dholbach's alternative process says.
<ScottK> dholbach: We are currently trying to status progress of packaging in two places.  That is bad.  We've discussed this before.
<StevenK> ScottK: I'm guessing dholbach's alternative process is not set in stone, and open to discussion.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<ScottK> StevenK: That's not what the wiki page says.
<ScottK> It just says here is an alternate process.
<dholbach> StevenK: absolutely
<StevenK> dholbach: Mind confirming?
<ScottK> Nothing about expermental.
<StevenK> Just because it's open to discussion doesn't make it experimental
<ScottK> And contributors are now confused.
<bddebian> Heya geser, thx :-)
<StevenK> dholbach: Okay, would you mind putting a note at the top of the wiki page saying that this is a proposed new process, and is subject to change, and open to discussion on the IRC channel or mailing list?
<StevenK> ScottK: ^
<ScottK> So currently if you read that page, provision of a debdiff is optional.  I don't agree with that.
<dholbach> ScottK: if you would have said it like that before, everything would have been fine
<dholbach> I'm happy to make that change
<ScottK> dholbach: But the whole point is that you launched this entire process with no discussion first.
<ScottK> We should be discussing this before, not after.
<dholbach> ScottK: I wrote a script and asked people to test it
<dholbach> ScottK: nobody bothered to reply, a few people tested it and told me that it worked for them, I added it as an alternative
<dholbach> (to reply on the mailing list)
<ScottK> Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall anything about "and we are going to use this as an alternative to the current merge process" in the mails.
<dholbach> the tool is not about merging ... yet
<ScottK> That's not what the wiki page says.
<dholbach> it's about uploading things for sponsorship
<sladen> nb. contributions happen when the barrier to entry is lowered
<geser> but you have to look out that you don't increase the steps for the sponsors to much else nobody will sponsor
<sladen> geser: I think that /was/ my point :)
<ScottK> dholbach: One risk associated with the PPA approach is people forget to change the version before uploading.  Somewhere in the process there ought to be a check to stop that (maybe soyuz could auto-reject ppa revisions to non-ppa pockets).
<dholbach> ScottK: yeah, I noticed that too
<dholbach> ScottK: there are still some things to figure out there
<ScottK> I'd urge you to work with the archive admins to get something in place for that before we have a problem.
<ScottK> Also, speaking of archive admins ... I uploaded DKMS last night.  I know BenC was anxious for it to get in, so you might want to prod them on new.
<dholbach> ScottK: right
<dholbach> it's something we need to work on together
<dholbach> be it a patch to devscripts or dput
<dholbach> or bugs on soyuz
<StevenK> Or both
<dholbach> yeah
<proppy> From my early contributor point of view, I get a different process for doing the same thing from each different person I talked, PPA vs REVU vs debdiff, I don't mind there is different way to do it, I guess I just have to stick to the way preferred by the person who watch my changes
<proppy> for what it worths
<sladen> ScottK: of PPA could enforce that if a package is already in $some main archive, the ppa name must be  foobar-1.2usernameN
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks a lot for the MOTU Meeting reminder
<ScottK> sladen: No, because we want a ppa unique name for stuff in the ppa.
<ScottK> Don't want to confuse real versioning in the archive.
<proppy> I found the process of each steps (Merge, Sync, UVFe, Sponsoring) well documented, I only miss the glue between each steps
<dholbach> maybe we should put this on the agenda for the next PPA IRC session
<dholbach> or discuss on launchpad-users@
<dholbach> as there seems to be still some things to discuss
<ScottK> dholbach: Which?
<dholbach> ScottK: I know that copying from one pocket to the other is a feature request for soyuz - a workflow that'd work nicely with that would be great
<dholbach> ScottK: there's still something to discuss about that
<ScottK> dholbach: None of those forums you mentioned are MOTU forums.
<dholbach> ScottK: PPA concerns much more people than just MOTUs
<ScottK> This would be a symptom of my concerns
<dholbach> ?
<proppy> Is there some document/wiki page that highlight these process from a bigger point a view ?
<ScottK> dholbach: That's true, but we are discussing MOTU workflow here (mostly) and you want to discuss it on LP users.
<proppy> i.e: how these steps are related together in time and space, instead of linking them from one page to another ?
<dholbach> ScottK: yeah, because it concerns much more people and the more people can weigh in their opinions in discussion with launchpad developers the better the service is going to be
<dholbach> we need to help them understand what would help us
<ScottK> So now if I want to be involved in MOTU process discussions I need to subscribe LP-users?
<dholbach> ScottK: that's not what I'm saying
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> So far I've expressed a bunch of concern about MOTU process and workflow and you want to go discuss it in other places.
<dholbach> I said: there are LP features planned or marked as wishlist, so in a planning phase; if we can make LP people (and other users) see, what would help us, it will be beneficial for the discussion
<ScottK> That's how it sounds
<ScottK> I agree with that, but when do we discuss how we (as MOTU) want stuff to work?
<dholbach> we can start off the discussion on both lists if you like
<dholbach> Please don't make me the bad guy who alters processes behind your back
<ScottK> The thing is, I'm not subscribed to LP users.
<dholbach> that's really not what I'm trying to do
<ScottK> I accept that it's not what you are trying to do.
<ScottK> It is how it appears to me.
<dholbach> if you want to have a discussion on ubuntu-motu or on a wiki page before we ask on launchpad-users, that's fine too
<dholbach> I'm not trying to stop anybody from doing that
<ScottK> I've added an agenda item loosely about merge workflow on tomorrow's MOTU meeting agenda.
<dholbach> maybe we should make it more specific
<ScottK> Feel free to edit.
<dholbach> it's your item, I wouldn't want to guess it the wrong way
<ScottK> I think that building a proposed revision in a PPA is useful, but that the canonical source to be used for the merge still needs to be the debian repository source + debdiff.
* ScottK will look at it again.
<dholbach> I just felt that having one about "how to deal with ppa changelog entries, etc" and one about "the merge process" would be  better
<hendrixski> oh bugger... you guys see the new article on slashdot :-( paning the direction gutsy is taking  :-(
<Kopfgeldjaeger> is there an elegant way of blacklisting a kernel module? not something like sed etc.
<ScottK> hendrixski: Anyone who says "KDE users will have to settle for version 3.5.7." really doesn't know much IMO.  KDE 4 is no where near ready for production use.
<ScottK> dholbach: The PPA issue mirrors my concerns, in some respects, about using a vcs.  You have to have one canonical source for the software.  For merging, I think it has to be Debian + debdiff.  Anything else is an intersting adunct.
<ScottK> So PPA changelogs never actually enter into it.
<hendrixski> ScottK, :-( he does raise a few points about just ease of use... but you're right... he doesn't know the details with which to divine the future of Ubuntu
<dholbach> ScottK: that's something we need to point out somewhere out of #ubuntu-motu
<huats> ScottK: Hi
<ScottK> Hello huats
<ScottK> dholbach: All I can solve it MOTU.  The rest is up to others.
<huats> ScottK: since you had a close look at bug #108742 can you give me your opinion at bug #108746 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108742 in acidrip "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108742
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108746
<huats> ScottK: they are quite close.....
<dholbach> ScottK: that's not true; you can share your views and experience with others
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> dholbach: Agreed, but as a volunteer I have limited time to expend on Ubuntu.  I have to choose how to focus it best.
<dholbach> ScottK: nobody is asking you to implement something in soyuz :-)
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> My focus though is on making the MOTU workflow work.
<dholbach> right, but if you can ask others to implement something to help with your workflow...
<huats> ScottK: I was wondering it the better solution would be to include the icon currently used by efax-gtk, inside the efax-gtk package itself... instead of depending on a big gnome package.... The other pb is that this icon is only 24x24....
<ScottK> huats: I'm really not an icon expert.
<ScottK> I'd say ask in #kubuntu-devel what the general policy is on this.
<huats> ScottK: no but you are a Kubuntu oriented MOTU :-)
<ScottK> Yes, but I'm more of a server developer and a Kubuntu user/tester.
<huats> to be honnest I have already asked once, but I got no answer at all
<huats> ScottK: ok, I'll try another shot at #kubuntu-devel then... thanks anyway
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Can you help huats get an anwser to his question ^^^^
<Hobbsee> no
<ScottK> OK
<Hobbsee> (because i can never remember)
<huats> Hobbsee: ok
<huats> I'll ask the same question on kubuntu-devel
<huats> thanks anyway for your help (you are always very helpful, you have the right of a one time failure ;-))
<pochu> What is "$@" for when passed to python?
<pochu> e.g. python -OO /usr/lib/listen/listen.py "$@"
<POX_> pochu: man bash
* pochu hugs POX_ 
<pochu> nice to see you here :-)
<POX_> (all parameters)
<POX_> in Debian, you cen remove -OO
<POX_> s/Debian/Ubuntu, whatever
<pochu> is -OO passed by default?
<POX_> if you have pyc files, pyo are not needed
<Nafallo> could someone good with licensing look at http://kent.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/irrpt/irrpt-1.26.tar.gz please? :-)
<Nafallo> I would think it's allowed.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I documented the discussion on motu ml.
<ScottK> Nafallo: Why woulnd't it be?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: great!
<Nafallo> ScottK: hm. I'm not just sure AS-IS is a valid license? :-)
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> That's not a problem.
<ScottK> That's part of this disclaimer of warranty and pretty standard.
<ScottK> The key bit is "Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided..."
<\sh> ScottK, ping wine...the package won't work like that...some simple mistakes, libs are again not in /usr/lib32 if it's not fixed, I wouldn't approve the UVE
<ScottK> \sh: Could you give him feedback on the ML then?
<ScottK> I'll comment on REVU so no one uploads it.
<\sh> ScottK, ok...or I can try to fix it tomorrow, when I have access to an amd64 system to build
<\sh> or just fixing it and uploading to ppa
<ScottK> to REVU maybe?
<\sh> ScottK, hmmm....revu doesn't have a amd64 build option ;)
<\sh> I need to testbuild it
<\sh> btw...what's scott ritchies irc nick=
<\sh> ?
<ScottK> Ah.  I was thinking when you had something worth uploading.  Not for test build.
<ScottK> \sh: Dunno
<\sh> ScottK, you'll get a fix tomorrow...I'm too tired today to work on anyti
<\sh> anything...and propably you can upload this crap ;)
<\sh> hmmm..who syncbombed during this release?
<\sh> ScottK, if wine uve is approved, or it's a wildcard, I dunno, please upload the package ... we fix it after beta freeze
<ScottK> \sh it's a wildcard approval.
<ScottK> If you'll have a better package tomorrow, I'd perfer to wait.
<\sh> cool
<geser> Nafallo: the project page for irrpt says it's BSD licensed and the license text matches pretty well the one in /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD
* \sh needs a shower and some sleep....
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<ScottK> CU tomorrow
<jussi01> !u | ScottK
<ubotu> ScottK: Unless you're Dutch or Flemish, the letter 'U' is not a pronoun.  If you want to be taken more seriously, please bother to type out the extra letters in "you".  The same goes for "why", "because", "anyone", and so on..
<jussi01> :P
<ScottK> jussi01: The same for \sh_away then.
<jussi01> ScottK: lol, i was only teasing...
<jussi01> :P
* ScottK is not having a happy day, so not the best day for it.
<jussi01> sorry
<Nafallo> geser: ah. kewl. thanks. would be easy to pack I guess ;-)
* proppy hugs ScottK
<ScottK> Heya proppy.
<ScottK> BTW, poker-network will never build on lpia and hppa due to problems with dependencies.
<proppy> ScottK: is the buildlog avaiable anywhere ?
<proppy> ScottK: lp?
<ScottK> Yes.  On LP.  You'll see that lpia is dependency wait on python-pygames which is dep wait on some sound lib that FTBFS.
<proppy> FTBFS ?
<ScottK> Feel free to dive in and figure out how to fix it.
<ScottK> Fail To Build From Source
<proppy> ScottK: how do I test ?
<ScottK> proppy: lpia is an i386 subset.  Somewhere there are instructions on how to make an lpia chroot if you have i386.  I don't recall where..
<proppy> libsdl-mixer1.2-dev
<proppy> ok
<ScottK> Yeah.  That one
<pochu> hmm
<pochu> wesnoth is also dep-waiting for that library...
<proppy> linux/awe_voice.h missing
<proppy> debian bug Bug#434303
<ScottK> Maybe you two can work together on it.
<pochu> Debian #434303
<ubotu> Debian bug 434303 in sdl-mixer1.2 "sdl-mixer1.2: FTBFS: Cannot find linux/awe_voice.h" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/434303
<DarkSun88> Good night at all.
<ScottK> Good night DarkSun88
<proppy> which kernel is gutsy ?
<ScottK> 2.6.22
<proppy> seems this include is dropped in 2.6.22
<proppy> there is a debian patch to use upstream provided awe_voice.h
<pochu> right
<ScottK> There appears to be one in http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/libdevel/libuclibc-dev. Would that work?
<proppy> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=15;filename=patch;att=1;bug=434303
<josephpiche> speaking of the kernel, what are the chances the 2.6.23 kernel will be released in time to get included in gutsy
<ScottK> Zero
<josephpiche> is there a scheduled date of release?
<ScottK> For what?
<josephpiche> 2.6.23
<proppy> fixed in sdl-mixer1.2 1.2.6-3
<jdong> that is irrelevant
<ScottK> Dunno, but for Gutsy the decision has been made
<jdong> even if it's released this minute it's not gonna change the situation
<proppy> so requesting a sync should do the work
<proppy> pochu: are you agree ?
<pochu> we backport bug fixes though, don't we?
<pochu> proppy: either that or apply the patch
<pochu> proppy: since it has some other changes, I haven't looked at them yet
<proppy> lets me debdiff
<ScottK> Also it's in Main, so we'll need a core-dev to ack it.
<proppy> do ack a patch too ?
<ScottK> Yes
<proppy> I guess acking a patch in main is simpler that acking a sync ? like in MOTU ?
<proppy> universe I mean
<ScottK> It's pretty much the same.
<ScottK> Just a smaller group of people to do it.
<geser> proppy: every upload to main must be acked by a ubuntu RM now
<pochu> until the freeze ends
<proppy> understood :)
<geser> which will be the release
<proppy> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/s/sdl-mixer1.2/sdl-mixer1.2_1.2.6-3/changelog
<ScottK> proppy: Would you please do a test build of the -3 revision?
<proppy> the -3 release is build clean and adding a patch system
<proppy> + patches
<proppy> ScottK: np
<ScottK> I'm asking you (or pochu) to build it yourself in a Guty environment (not a Debian environment).
<ScottK> Once it builds, I'll ask RM if they want a sync or to try just the patch.
<proppy> pochu: let's race :)
<pochu> proppy: I'm busy right now, but maybe later... :)
<proppy> pochu: I'm too excited to wait, maybe next time
<pochu> proppy: or send me a debdiff and we see who has a faster machine :-)
* pochu updates his pbuilder
<proppy> pochu: ok :)
<pochu> cool :)
<ScottK> pitti was there so I went ahead and asked which he'd prefer
<proppy> pochu: I build using a chroot, I can't stand pbuilder tgz
<pochu> hehe
<pochu> let's see PBUILDER VS CHROOT then ;)
<proppy> :)
<ScottK> [16:11]  <pitti> ScottK: judging by that changelog, I'd rather sync
<ScottK> So please test and let me know how it goes.
<proppy> ok
<proppy> pitti = RM ?
<geser> yes
<proppy> pochu: builddeping :|
<proppy> building
<proppy> pochu: where do I put the debdiff ?
<proppy> ScottK: build fine on gutsy
<proppy> ScottK: where can I upload log ?
<ScottK> proppy: No need.  Does it install?
<pochu> proppy: to make the race? pochu at ubunt...
<proppy> ok
<proppy> pochu: done
<pochu> checking
<proppy> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/337/
<proppy> ScottK: it installs fine
<pochu> proppy: got it
<pochu> let me get the source :)
<proppy> pochu: dget http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/sdl-mixer1.2/sdl-mixer1.2_1.2.6-3.dsc
<ScottK> proppy: Why don't you go ahead and file a sync request and then give me the bug #.  I'll check it.
<proppy> ScottK: np
<proppy> ScottK: do not know that the process was the same than MOTU
<ScottK> It's the same just you need a main sponsor rather then a Universe sponsor
* ScottK can't sponsor for main
<proppy> ScottK: I should provide info for a UVFe as well ?
<proppy> oups
<pochu> ScottK: not needed
<proppy> its not new upstream version
<ScottK> Right
<pochu> right :)
<pochu> proppy: ok, ready :)
<pochu> are you ready?
<proppy> pochu: waiiiit
<pochu> when ScottK says 'Ubuntu rules' then we start building :-)
<proppy> pochu: no ccache  !
<pochu> proppy: sure, take your time :)
<proppy> pochu: ready
<ScottK> Kubuntu rules
<ScottK> Ubuntu rules
<pochu> :)
<ScottK> ;-)
<proppy> :)
<pochu>  -> extracting base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz] 
<pochu> argh
<proppy> ahahahah
<ScottK> proppy: Let's just get the sync done before pitti gets tired and goes to bed
<pochu> :/
<proppy> ScottK: ok :)
<proppy> will race later :)
<pochu> proppy: finished :)
<proppy> pochu: me too
<proppy> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sdl-mixer1.2/+bug/141351
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141351 in sdl-mixer1.2 "Please sync sdl-mixer1.2_1.2.6-3 from debian unstable main" [Undecided,New] 
* ScottK looks
<proppy> I will suscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors after you've looked at it
<proppy> should I add the debdiff as a comment ?
<proppy> (and/or) the install log ?
<ScottK> proppy: I'd suggest add a comment that the current -2 revision is FTBFS in Gutsy due to whatever it was being removed and that you've test built and installed in with whatever architecture you used
<proppy> (and/or) the build log
<ScottK> Not needed.
<ScottK> Just the comment I suggested
<geser> ScottK: [22:26:51]              <-- pitti (n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti) has quit ("bye bye")
<proppy> sorry :)
<geser> that's about 15 min ago
<geser> so no need to hurry anymore
<ScottK> But seb128 is still up.  Maybe he'll do it.
<proppy> ScottK: comment done
<ScottK> proppy: I subscribed UMS.  I also milestoned it for the Beta to make sure it doesn't get forgotten.
<ScottK> It looks like they're busy ATM in #ubuntu-devel, so I won't bug them now.
<proppy> ScottK: thanks a lot
<ScottK> No problem.  Thanks for looking into it.
<ScottK> That problem would affect a LOT of games.
<proppy> can't wait to play poker on hppa
<firefly2442> Does a package need to be in the Debian repo before being accepted into the Ubuntu repo?
<ScottK> firefly2442: No
<firefly2442> ok thanks
<ScottK> We prefer to get stuff from Debian, but do take stuff they don't have
<proppy> lpia too
<firefly2442> What's a better package tool debhelper or CDBS (which uses debhelper)?
<firefly2442> I'm trying to learn how to create a package and I'm reading through the wiki docs
<ScottK> CDBS is easier when it works.  When it doesn't work straight away it can be a bit of a challenge to understand.
<ion_> I like cdbs. Some hate cdbs.
<ion_> Yeah, having read cdbs source and understanding the Makefile syntax helps.
<firefly2442> my program is pretty simple so hopefully this will be easy :)
<firefly2442> so if I don't have to compile anything (it's a PHP program) will that make it easier?
<ScottK> Possibly.  Your best bet is to look for a similar php script that's packaged already and then copy from it's packaging.
<firefly2442> ok good idea
<YokoZar_> Do the package.install and package.dirs files respect architecture flags?  ie, can I have usr/lib32 [amd64]  in debian/package.dirs ?
<ScottK> proppy: Sync is done.
<proppy> ScottK: fine, I guess poker-network will just rebuild once the deps are ?
<ScottK> Just asking about that
<ScottK> It's automatic
<YokoZar_> ScottK: Can I ask about Wine for a second?
<YokoZar_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=269
<ScottK> You can ask.
<YokoZar_> ScottK: I'm trying to do \sh's suggestion for putting the libs in /usr/lib32 on amd64
<proppy> ScottK: cool thanks
<ScottK> I really hope you aren't about to ask me how to do that.
<YokoZar_> no
<ScottK> Great.  Because I've no idea.
<YokoZar_> My worry is just about what putting /usr/lib32 into wine.dirs would do on a 32 bit machine
<ajmitch> good morning
<YokoZar_> Would it make an empty /usr/lib32 directory?
<YokoZar_> Or can I make a wine.dirs.amd64 file?
<ScottK> I think you can do that latter, but I'm not sure the exact syntax.
<YokoZar_> hmmm
<ScottK> Look in a metapackage like kubuntu-desktop and see how they do it.
<YokoZar_> Yeah good idea
<ScottK> IIRC they have arch specific package lists.
<ajmitch> or you could conditionally call dh_installdirs :)
<YokoZar_> Yeah, I think you're right
<ScottK> I'd listen to the advice you're getting on #ubuntu-devel.
* ajmitch isn't up to date with scrollback there
<ScottK> They person giving the advice used to be a Debian release manager.
<ajmitch> so I'll be silent
<ScottK> ajmitch: It's Steve Langasek is that rings any bells.
<ScottK> is/if
<ajmitch> yes, I know
<ScottK> OK
* ScottK wants a debdiff with a --no-autotools-cruft option.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<ScottK> See you all later.
<ajmitch> filterdiff?
<ajmitch> bye
<ScottK> probably (filterdiff)
<ajmitch> alias  autodiff to be filterdiff with the common autocrap options :)
<proppy> see you
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
<ajmitch> how are you today?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Well thanks. Yourself?
<ajmitch> wishing I'd gone to bed earlier :)
<pkern> Could someone on gutsy try out a repository for me? (i.e. if an apt-get update works properly)
<ajmitch> sure
<pkern> ajmitch: deb http://ubuntu-sourcedeps.philkern.de gutsy main universe
<pkern> (The repository is not yet signed.)
<stgraber> Is there someone around here who can help me with an easy apache URL rewriting rule ? We currently have https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting, but we are moving to https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker
<ajmitch> Get: 21 http://ubuntu-sourcedeps.philkern.de gutsy/universe Packages [1347kB] 
<stgraber> I'd like to keep compatibility with old URLs and then rewrite /isotesting to /qatracker
<pkern> ajmitch: Please let it run through, if the update at the end completes successfully.
<ajmitch> pkern: ok, waiting patiently
<pkern> ajmitch: It's a lot of packages, which might be harmful to apt's cache.
<ajmitch> updating from archive.ubuntu.com takes awhile
<ajmitch> just how many packages are in there, and how would it be harmful? :)
<pwnguin> ok, so how does this motu stuff work for newcomers? there's a little mention of Hopefuls
<ajmitch> pkern: no problem
<pwnguin> but all that's there is a definition =/
<pwnguin> for example, there's a package I'd like to add a udev rule to
<ajmitch> pwnguin: 'hopeful' just means you do the work, and get it uploaded
<pkern> ajmitch: Thank you :D
<ajmitch> being a motu means you can upload yourself :)
<ajmitch> otherwise you go through the normal sponsorship queues
<geser> pkern: works here (amd64)
<pkern> geser: Fine, thanks. (:
<geser> pkern: is it what the name suggests? an archive to keep track of installed build-depends (automatically/manually installed)?
<pkern> geser: Yep. It uses the same software as sourcedeps.debian.net.
<ajmitch> for what purpose?
<pkern> ajmitch: I regularly build specific software on my machine, packages for which I am upstream.
<ajmitch> so just a minimal cache of packages required to build things?
<pkern> ajmitch: The dependencies are tracked with aptitude when builddep packages are used.
<geser> ajmitch: apt can keep track if a depends was installed manually or through other depends. this archive allows you to do this also for build-depends
<pkern> ajmitch: A pkgname-build-depends package depends on all build-dependencies needed to build the package pkgname.
<ajmitch> ah right
<pkern> ajmitch: i.e. if you remove it all corresponding dev packages which are no longer needed are removed, too.
<ajmitch> could be useful
<nixternal> keescook: bug 141378 - review that for me if you get the chance - KDM security patches for Dapper - Feisty
<ubotu> Bug 141378 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/141378 is private
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-21
<leonel> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/+bug/141073    the last  command  I didn't sent it ?  was the builder  or some automated thing ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141073 in clamav "Remote DoS and Remote execution" [Undecided,Fix released] 
<pochu> leonel: a soyuz feature, yes
<pochu> leonel: it closes bugs with 'LP: #nnnn' syntax in changelog
<leonel> pochu: thanks
<keescook> nixternal: thanks, I've got them building now.  :)
<Fujitsu> win 4
<Fujitsu> Gr.
<YokoZar_> Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why am I getting this error: CONFFLAGS += --libdir=/usr/lib32
<YokoZar_> make: CONFFLAGS: Command not found
<bddebian> Heya gang
<TheMuso> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi TheMuso
<nixternal> keescook: thanks!
<pwnguin> YokoZar_: did you put that in a target?
<YokoZar_> pwnguin: it's right before this line: CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)" LDFLAGS="$(LDFLAGS)" ./configure --host=$(DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE) --build=$(DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE) --prefix=/usr --mandir=\$${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\$${prefix}/share/info $(CONFFLAGS)
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> thats a comman
<pwnguin> see how it actually does something?
<YokoZar_> yeah
<pwnguin> the CONFFLAGS doesnt
<ajmitch> YokoZar_: take it out of the target
<ajmitch> & place it before the targets (non-indented)
<YokoZar_> ahh thanks
<bddebian> Hmm what to break today..
<tonyyarusso> bddebian: How 'bout X?  We haven't had a good solid X breakage in a long time.
<bddebian> Heh, I'm not allowed to break that one :-)
<pwnguin> break cwiid
* porthose deep in thought
<bddebian> Gah, what freeze are we in now?
<tonyyarusso> beta
<bddebian> Hrm
<Hobbsee> bddebian: for universe?  uvf and npf
<Hobbsee> bddebian: we dont freeze universe for the beta.
<bddebian> npf?
<Hobbsee> new package freeze
<bddebian> Well I just uploaded a bug fix for airstrike and it says it's waiting approval..
<RAOF> The mail to ubuntu-devel suggests that all packages will need a manual shove.
<RAOF> But only main packages need ACKs from the release team.
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yes, it does require manual approval, but they just shove all the universe stuff thru when htey see it
<bddebian> AH, OK, thx
* Hobbsee wonders why she has xserver-xorg-video-ati on this machine...
<Hobbsee> bddebian: same as the tribe freezes
* pwnguin wondered the same thing
<Hobbsee> bddebian: (they cant freeze one component, and not another)
<bddebian> Aye, fair enough
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya ajmitch!
<ajmitch> what's new?
<bddebian> Hrmph, hi to you too ajmitch :-)
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Hmm, interesting new backgroun
<bddebian> +d
<ajmitch> looks like there'll be a number of google people at UDS
<bddebian> Looks like I won't be going :'-(
<nixternal> google schmoogle
<ajmitch> oh well
<jsgotangco> oh well too
<ajmitch> bddebian: but it's only a few minutes down the road for you
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: you're not going?
* Hobbsee isnt cool neough to go.
<jsgotangco> too busy, i have commitments to hong kong in november
<bddebian> I know but I have a business meeting and my kids would disown me if I missed Halloween :-(
<ajmitch> that's a shame
<bddebian> Hobbsee: bs
* jdong considers the 2-block walk :)
<jsgotangco> let's see though
<Hobbsee> bddebian: :)
<Hobbsee> no, really, i just ahve uni
<jsgotangco> i won't be going to sponsoring route though, probably my own expense
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'm the same, it's ok to be uncool
<jsgotangco> if it happens
<nixternal> ya, I emailed claire back and said if I make it, I will make it on my own, leave the sponsorship to someone who needs it
<ScottK> nixternal: Well at least you got asked....
<ScottK> </bitter>
<ScottK> ;-)
<nixternal> heh
<jdong> lol
<nixternal> don't why I keep getting asked
<ajmitch> scottk, bitter again? who would have thought it? :)
<ajmitch> nixternal: at least *you* got asked... :)
<bddebian> haha, beat me to it :-)
<jsgotangco> maybe they want you to be part of the borg
<nixternal> I don't do anything important anyways...if they don't start cooling down who they sponsor, eventually a UDS will be nothing more than a social event
<ScottK> ajmitch: Actually I'm not bitter tonight for a change.  I had a good evening.
<ajmitch> ScottK: great
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'm not bitter, just regretting going to bed so late last night
<Hobbsee> nixternal: docs are important
* Hobbsee heads to work
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh ;)
<ajmitch> bye Hobbsee!
* nixternal thinks the community stuff (ie. LoCo teams and what not) can be done on IRC
* ajmitch blames the Hobbsee 
<nixternal> Hobbsee: docs are far from important...especially important enough to be at a UDS...now for one of the DE's, ya, docs are a little more important
<Hobbsee> nixternal: it ends up working better (community stuff) in person
<Hobbsee> you get more stuff done
<nixternal> plus, it would just be jjesse and myself there, we live across the lake from each other :)
<nixternal> lol
<jsgotangco> its still nice to go to a UDS though
<jsgotangco> unexpected things happen
<nixternal> ya, I will get to one eventually
<ajmitch> nixternal: and I live just across the ditch from hobbsee.. what's your point? :)
<jsgotangco> like being handled to be dunked to a pool
<nixternal> ajmitch: none actually
<jsgotangco> (almost)
<nixternal> heh
<ajmitch> well, 'just across the ditch' being a 3 & 1/2 hour flight
<ajmitch> yay for living in NZ
<jsgotangco> ajmitch
<jsgotangco> are you going to LCA
<ajmitch> no idea
<ajmitch> I'd need to find time off work
<jsgotangco> thinking to go, i have a place to stay in melbourne anyways
<ajmitch> that's cool
<ajmitch> I've got a few friends there
<ajmitch> maybe I should defer the holiday I was planning to have
<ajmitch> so that I can go to LCA instead :)
<jsgotangco> hehe
* ajmitch was going to go to melbourne anyway
<crimsun> (won't be able to make the motu meeting, will be on a plane)
<ScottK> Have a good trip for whatever your definition of good is.
<RAOF> The MOTU meeting will be at... 10pm (A)EST, right?
<ScottK> Sounds right, but Australian time zones aren't my speciality.
<RAOF> It's 12 UTC, and we're UTC+10, so... :)
<RAOF> (right?)
<ScottK> Yea
<ScottK> Yes
* ajmitch wonders if he'll still be awake
* ScottK is used to minusing timezones.
* StevenK wonders if he'll actually be home
<ajmitch> maybe I can sleep after work & get up later
* RAOF may well not be awake.
<ajmitch> or just play WoW to kill time :)
<ScottK> Good night all.
<ajmitch> night ScottK
<StevenK> I wanted to level up tonight, but I'm at my mothers instead. :-/
<ajmitch> aw
<RAOF> ajmitch: Join twisted-matrix on frostmourne, damnit :)
<ajmitch> what level are you at?
<ajmitch> hehe
<StevenK> ajmitch: 29
<ajmitch> RAOF: sure, my warlock on frostmourne will be so useful there :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: 22, 18. 4
<ajmitch> about level 7
<ScottK> StevenK: Want a really convoluted Perl problem to solve?
* StevenK was happily killing level 30 Fetid Corpses for 400 XP a hit last night
* ajmitch has 60, 9 on khaz'goroth
<StevenK> ScottK: Sure
<ScottK> OK.
<ajmitch> if I'm lucky I can hit 61 by the end of the weekend :)
<StevenK> Well, I have a 29, 16 and 17
<ScottK> mail-spf-perl passes all it's tests nicely with libnet-dns-perl 0.59.
<ScottK> That's what we had when we uploaded.
<StevenK> I want to hit 30 tonight. Then I get a new minion
<ajmitch> RAOF: I presume it's a horde guild?
<ScottK> With 0.60 (that we have now) it fails the IPv6 tests because some new Net::DNS magic got added.
<RAOF> ajmitch: Yes.
<ScottK> So now that magic turns "A" or "AAAA" queries into "PTR" queries automagically.
<ScottK> This is not good.
<StevenK> ScottK: That could possibly be beyond my Perl skills to fix0r
<ajmitch> RAOF: I might jump online when I get home
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Well the mail-spf-perl upstream is working it, but he's in Germany and just collapsed at 6AM.
<StevenK> ScottK: So the testsuite fails, basically, and you want me to fix it?
<ScottK> If you feel like it.
<ScottK> It's be a good geek challenge.
<ScottK> Otherwise I'll wait for upstream to sort it in a few days.
<StevenK> ScottK: Learn Perl. :-P
<RAOF> ajmitch: Coordinate with jml if you wish to join twisted-matrix (please do, we need sigs :))
<ScottK> my eyes.
<lifeless> mmm wow
* StevenK is currently employed to write Perl
<ScottK> Yeah.
<StevenK> lifeless: Are you on Dath'Remar? :-P
<ajmitch> RAOF: not a raiding guild, I take it? :)
<ScottK> OK, well I'll go to bed now.
<lifeless> I'm in twisted-matrix
<ajmitch> hi lifeless
<lifeless> my mains are all jubei'thos ally
<RAOF> ajmitch: Not yet :)
<lifeless> hmm, I really should push through to 70
<ajmitch> RAOF: I'll try & track down jml sometime then
<RAOF> lifeless: Turn up for some twisted-matrix, please.  I've got a bunch of stuff to push on your character :P
<lifeless> RAOF: I would have the other day, but noone sms'd me
<lifeless> when I sign off work, irc is in the wrong room
<RAOF> Fair enough.  Jml has your number, so it's his fault :)
* ajmitch should try & run ramparts again tonight
* jml waves
<ajmitch> hey jml
<RAOF> Why fix a problem when you can work around it with yet another wrapper script!
<paran> is there some standard way to use make debhelper use different files (package.dirs, package.install etc) depending on the build architecture?
<RAOF> Hm.  Not that I know of, but that's not to say that there isn't.
<TheMuso> paran: What are you trying to do?
* RAOF thinks TheMuso is obviously more awake than him.
<pwnguin> so how does one go about pushing bug fixes into universe these days?
<pwnguin> the wiki's got a couple ideas
<TheMuso> pwnguin: If the bug is filed, attach a debdiff, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Also be sure to put the bug number in the changelog, like LP: #number to automatically close the bug when the package is uploaded.
<pwnguin> ah
<TheMuso> RAOF: I've been doing Ubuntu related stuff most of the day, so my mind is somewhat switched on for Ubuntu stuff atm.
<paran> TheMuso: install 32bit libraries in usr/lib32 on amd64
<TheMuso> paran: As I don't have an amd64, I don't know the layout of such stuff, so I don't feel I can comment, without having a good understanding of things.
<RAOF> paran: That's a good question.
<RAOF> paran: So, the stupid way that I can think of in my current state is to have a -32 package built only on amd64.  That is however stupid.
<RAOF> Unless you actually need to separate stuff with .install files, you could also just set a different --libprefix based on dpkg-architecture?
<RAOF> Please take these ramblings with a good pinch of salt.  I'm tired.
* RAOF goes to "fix" xgl.
<paran> RAOF: I am modifying an existing package and don't wich to do intrusive stuff. it uses .install files
* jussio1 hands RAOFa bigger hamme
<jussio1> r
<RAOF> Mmmm.  --loose-binding.  For when you don't *really* need to be able to see the buttons.
<RAOF> paran: The only other ways I can think of at the moment are evil, evil hacks.
<RAOF> paran: Ooooh.  The wine packages on REVU should handle this properly, I think.  YOu may want to check them.
<dholbach> good morning
<jussio1> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey jussio1
<paran> RAOF: they don't, thats the one I am looking at :-)
<RAOF> paran: Oh.  Whoops!
<\sh> moins
<MehdiHassanpour> hi, I don't receive updates after a "sudo apt-get update" command, seems Packages or Releases files from apt server are being cached! any help or configuration on the server?
<asisak> Good morning!
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<TheMuso> Hey asisak.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<asisak> Hey TheMuso, dholbach.
<AnAnt> Hello, can I enable restricted,universe & multiverse repos in pbuilder ?
<AnAnt> I uncommented this line in /etc/pbuilderrc: COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<asisak> AnAnt: you should update your pbuilder
<asisak> Actually you have to run "pbuilder update --override-config"
<AnAnt> asisak: thanks
<dholbach> does anyone know what happened to persia?
<sladen> dholbach: got invaded by America about 5 years ago
<dholbach> sladen: Emmet Hikory
<sladen> dholbach: idle 7 hours and identified to serivces
<dholbach> sladen: gracias
<asisak> See you later.
<\sh> what is the correct tool to produce an iso from a dvd in gnome today?
<\sh> ah found it
<twb> What is the procedure for ITPing a package that's currently in Debian but not Ubuntu?
<twb> Sorry, RFP not ITP
<pwnguin> REVU?
<pochu> twb: why not sync it?
<twb> pochu: I'm not an Ubuntu maintainer.
<pochu> twb: you don't need to. We sync packages from Debian, i.e. we take the Debian package 'as it is'
<twb> Well, I can't find empty-expect in your package tree.
<pochu> Because we are in Sync Freeze. But it should be automatically synced once Hardy opens the repositories
<twb> When does that happen?  When Gutsy is released?
<pochu> twb: yes, though it might take a while, since archive admins will have a lot of work :)
<pwnguin> which package are you after?
<pochu> But it should be imported automatically
* pwnguin considers a ten dollar standard fee to bring packages from debian into his ppa
<pwnguin> twb: which package are you after?
<twb> pwnguin: "his ppa" is a third-party archive?
<twb> pwnguin: as I said, empty-expect.
<twb> I am quite capable of backporting it myself, but it is always preferable for a package to be apt-gettable without messing with sources.list.
<pwnguin> well that'll likely be the route you take, as i don't see an exception being had
<twb> I can quite accept that.
<pwnguin> but it'll pull into heron automatically
<twb> I just wasn't sure whether syncs had to be / could be requested by users, or if they just happened automatically.
<twb> Now I know.
<twb> Toodle-pipski!
<MehdiHassanpour> hi motu, how can I categorize packages in a repository? for example to have "backports" "meta" "main" ... categories
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<bluefoxicy> new kernel package for -virtual?  Virtual processors?  ...... ok someone has to link me on this one.  >.>
<bluefoxicy> (yes I'm being a pest lately)
<bluefoxicy> damnit
<bluefoxicy> I was asked to update pax-utils for Gutsy but I didn't
<MehdiHassanpour> hi motu, how can I categorize packages in a repository? for example to have "backports" "meta" "main" ... categories
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<jussi01> g'day TheMuso
<zul> meeting this morning isnt there?
<TheMuso> Yes
<TheMuso> In 8 minutes.
<ajmitch> sigh
* ajmitch should be asleep
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Nobody is forcing you to attend.
<zul> you should but its the weekend for you isnt it?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: no, but I really should
<TheMuso> ajmitch: You have been a regular at the last few. I think you have earned the break.
* Fujitsu sighs at bug #141481
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141481 in dash "dash as #!/bin/sh introduces countless incompatibilities" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141481
<ajmitch> haha
<Kmos> <elmo> bazaar.launchpad.net and codebrowse.launchpad.net are going down for emergency maintenance, ETD is 10 minutes
<ScottK> dholbach: IIRC, persia got tackled by real life ($WORK).
<dholbach> MOTU Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> ScottK: Not so much $(WORK), but otherwise :)
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.
<ScottK> Coming to the meeting?
<ScottK> persia: I'd be interested to hear the story at some point.
<persia> ScottK: Not very interesting, but sure.
<jussi01> wb persia!
<kgoetz> where should i start looking to fix a problem (apparently caused by a) postinst script?
<kgoetz> its bug 139252 i think
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139252 in mediawiki "package mediawiki 1:1.10 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139252
<kgoetz> yes, that one
* ScottK looks
<kgoetz> ty
<persia> kgoetz: the postinst scripts are usually in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<kgoetz> persia: it exits with 1 when you attempt to install it, which is ' echo "postinst called with unknown argument \`$1'" >&2', but i dont know where to start looking for what called it
<persia> kgoetz: /var/lib/dpkg/info/mediawiki.postinst would be called automatically by the package installation system.  I would suspect an issue with the mediawiki handling rather than with dpkg.
<StevenK> persia!
<StevenK> persia: How goes it?
<persia> StevenK: Um.  Better?  I still have lousy resolution, but the temperature is down.
<StevenK> persia: Oh, I didn't know you were ill, I just haven't seen you for a while.
<persia> StevenK: Not that, it's just that my workstation doesn't like ambients much over 30 degrees :)
<persia> (it's summer on the top end of the world)
<StevenK> Send it here :-)
<TheMuso> heh
<persia> StevenK: I'm not sure that helps me much ...
<kgoetz> summer is over rated
* TheMuso kicks the internode mirror.
<TheMuso> ooo. I like the new page layout for launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/packagename
<Amaranth> persia: in the top end of the world it's actually fall now (well, in two days)
<persia> Amaranth: Yep, and for the third time since mid-July, my workstation hasn't crashed within the first hour since activation :)
<Amaranth> TheMuso: too bad it's not possible to _remove_ an association
<kgoetz> persia: do you think the postinst needs rewritting or something?
<TheMuso> Amaranth: heh
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ...wow!
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yup.
<persia> kgoetz: I'm not actually familiar with the mediawiki packaging, but that error message usually means that something in the postinst needs adjustment: usually either a small syntax change, or sometimes a check to make sure that the assumptions in place when the script was written still apply.
<ScottK> TheMuso: When did that change? Look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyspf and tell me that's not FUBAR.
<persia> kgoetz: For example, the postinst might assume that /bin/sh is bash, or something.
<kgoetz> persia: ah i see.
<Amaranth> ScottK: I don't see a problem?
* jdong neither
<ScottK> Amaranth: There are several.
<TheMuso> me neither
<ScottK> 1.  It's no longer possible to see at a glance what's in all the relevant pockets
<ScottK> 2.  The "current" version listed there is in one case a backports version.
<Amaranth> err, gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper?
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyspf/+publishinghistory has pocket data
<nil> hi....
<Amaranth> oh, i see what you mean
<jdong> the old page is +publishinghistory
<ScottK> Right. so we hide the useful in formation even further.
* nil is building his first package
<Amaranth> no
<Amaranth> we show the useful info
<Amaranth> and hide the detailed info
<ScottK> The versions are out of order.
* jdong thinks changelog and version overview is useful information
<nil> which is the relevant channel? #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-modu ?
<ScottK> The changelogs are incomplete.
<jdong> it will also deprecate p.u.c
<persia> I prefer to see the changelog to the publishing history: it's often what I sought in the first place.
<ScottK> Actually it's complete, just out of sequence
<Amaranth> ScottK: they are?
<ScottK> So you have to sort it in your head.
<persia> nil: This is typically the relevant channel, but be advised you'll get better support when a release isn't planned in the next month or so.
* jdong counts back version numbers....
<jdong> they seem completely in order
<Amaranth> ScottK: the only problem i see is the backport
<ScottK> The edgy backport confuses thing.
<jdong> in terms of publishing history
<ScottK> Yes
<jdong> but not in terms of acutal order of version number
<ScottK> Plus the changed by lines are NOT the ones in the debian/changelog.
<jdong> the only exceptions should be backporting, updates, and badly named packages?
<ScottK> So this is the thing that LP pretends are changelog entries that aren't.
<jdong> yeah, looking at the backport it has no changed-by
<persia> It's hard to say which is correct, especially when supporting backports, SRUs, etc.
<jdong> so it's not d/ch, it's just LP metadata outputed in a similar format
<ScottK> jdong: Right.  So they shouldn't say it's what it's not.
<jdong> well it says it's a "version history"
<ScottK> OK.
<Amaranth> and it tells me why a patch was added and why
<Amaranth> so i can smack the appropriate person :)
<Amaranth> err, when a patch was added and why
<jdong> now.. what we need.... is a diff-betweeen-releases button!
<ScottK> Also the link to the old information is not on the page.  That's very poor web design.
<Amaranth> ScottK: it is
<ScottK> Where?
<jdong> Action -> Show Pub History
<Amaranth> ScottK: left column
<ScottK> OK.  See it now.
<jdong> I agree "publishing history" sounds unintuitive for hte old interface, though
<persia> jdong: Really?  It seemed clear to me.
<ScottK> Also the publishing history has a link to itself not a link back to the new front page for the package.
<persia> ScottK: That'd be a bug :)
<jdong> persia: heh might just be me then :)
<ScottK> Well, as I said yesterday, I'm planning on drastically reducing my involvement in Ubuntu after the Gutsy release, so no matter.
<nil> persia: ok thanks. I can understand it :)
<persia> nil: Still, it doesn't hurt to ask.  Are you having specific trouble, or just need a hand getting started?
<kgoetz> night all. i'll worry about mediawiki another time.
<nil> persia: no prob. I was on the debian devel channel, but felt not so comfortable...
<nil> persia: so, switching to ubuntu :)
<nil> persia: no troll...
<ScottK> I do think that showing the backports version as the current version is flat out wrong.
<Amaranth> yeah, that's a little weird
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Definitely. I suspect they should show all the pockets.
<Amaranth> i can see including security and updates
<Amaranth> but backports should be separate
* jdong agrees with that
<jdong> backports should show up separately
<jdong> but security and possibly -updates should mix in
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Exactly.  That's why at a glance this is yet another LP U/I regression.
<persia> I'm in agreement that backports should be separate, but have no suggestions for an interface for the separation.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: But it shows less information! It is BETTER!
<ScottK> persia: I have one.  Put the old interface back.
<jdong> my suggestion is just to show them as distros.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it shows the changelog.  that's better.
<jdong> releases, rather...
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Except it doesn't.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it shows enough of them, i thought.
<jdong> Hobbsee: I'd rather they put the "changelog" under the old UI and call it a day...
<ScottK> It show a cumulation of information from .changes files
<Fujitsu> persia: Have each distroseries row split into... 4 rows, I guess.
<Hobbsee> which is pulled from changelog files...
<jdong> Hobbsee: we established that the "changelog" is rather publishing history with .changes attached
<persia> ScottK: Hmm..  Or perhaps include the new (better) information in an Actions link until it's cleaner...
<jdong> Hobbsee: the ordering and changed-by have nothing to do with the changelog history itself
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Sort of, but in a very mangled and often useless manner.
<persia> jdong: The "changelog" was in the old UI: under Actions..View Changelog
<ScottK> persia: And it was equally not the changelog there either.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: to me, this looks like a unmangled lot.  but oh well, why dont you speak to the guy who did it
<jdong> persia: better to have it at-a-glance though....
<persia> ScottK: Agreed.
* Hobbsee is starting to wonder if ScottK is happy with anything in ubuntu.
<jdong> persia: like for backports I'd like to be able to type "lps packagename" into firefox and see a changelog with version numbers of releases.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I am very happy to use Ubuntu and participate in the process.
<persia> jdong: Agreed, but the idea of adding the upstream info to that page before changing the default seems like an alternative way to get input before annoying ScottK :)
<jdong> hehe :)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I've pretty well given up on anything more.
<ScottK> IMO LP is getting steadily worse.  Changes aren't thought through (my favorite recent one being PPA uploads closing bugs).
<siretart> darn, I missed the Meeting. again
<siretart> couldn't attend anyway
<ScottK> Processes are getting more complex to little or not benifit.
<ScottK> I just don't feel so great about it.
<jdong> *PPA uploads can close bugs?*
<siretart> I read in the backlog that you discussed some 'alternative sponsorship process'.
<Fujitsu> jdong: They do it frequently.
<Fujitsu> It's very nice.
<siretart> but I fail to spot what conclusion the discussion had. can someone help me here?
<ScottK> jdong: Yes.  Put (LP: #nnnnn) in your debian/changelog and upload it to a PPA.  LP will close the bug for you.
<jdong> Fujitsu: you mean in Ubuntu? or other LP hosted products?
<persia> siretart: It's listed as a proposed alternative in the SponsorshipProcess page on the wiki.
<siretart> jdong: yes, PPA upload DO close bugs. its marked 'critical', IIRC
<Fujitsu> jdong: Ubuntu is the only thing with PPA.
<Fujitsu> siretart: Only High.
<jdong> that's really broken.....
<Fujitsu> And didn't make 1.1.9, IIRC.
<ScottK> It's just so flipping obvious.
<Fujitsu> And unless Critical, no cherrypicking.
<jdong> so if I make a dummy commit into PPA that just says LP #1 #2 #3 #4 .......
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yeeeep.
<jdong> it would close those bugs?
<Hobbsee> siretart: from what i understand - needs more discussions, like everything else, and will be discussed at the next meeting, due to some people's inability to categorize mailing list posts by importance, and process the important ones.
<Amaranth> jdong: we'll smack you
<ScottK> jdong: It would.
<Hobbsee> jdong: no, it wouldnt.
<Amaranth> jdong: dude, i dare you to close bug 1
<jdong> that's... stupid.
<Fujitsu> No review required.
<Hobbsee> jdong: you missed a few :'s.
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Hahah.
* jdong laughs at Hobbsee :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Hobbsee> jdong: :)
<jdong> Amaranth: do I get my own Ubuntu Hates You island? :D
* persia thought the conclusion was that contributors still had to manually attach debdiffs, but that PPAs were also good, and a bug was filed to automatically generate the debdiffs.
<siretart> Hobbsee: ah - so there was no agreement, and the meeting failed to come to a decision?
<ScottK> jdong: You would have to get the regex right thoug.
<ScottK> though even
<Hobbsee> siretart: i missed part of it myself, but that was the upshot of what i understood to be the case, yes.
<siretart> that's sad
<jdong> ScottK: the concept that anyone can upload something that closes arbitrary bug reports on LP is just frightening
<ScottK> siretart: The decision was to revert the alternative.
<zul> siretart: when is there ever an agreement? ;)
<TheMuso> ScottK: revert the alternative? What do you mean exactly?
<persia> ScottK: Revert?  I thought a bug was filed, and more discussion on the mailing list was encouraged.
<Hobbsee> siretart: also that dholbach cant seem to make decisions on his own, and so every decisions he makes needs to be ack'd by the MOTU team.  presumably due to the Evil Canonical Empire (tm), and all.
<jdong> then again, the e-mail interface could do that anyway...
<ScottK> TheMuso: The "alternative sponsorship" process dholbach had put on the wiki is supposed to not be used until the debdiff thing gets fixed.
<Fujitsu> jdong: It's rather good for killing off a couple of hundred bugs, yes.
<TheMuso> ScottK: As I thought, thanks.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Not because of that.  Because I see excessive process churn as a bad thing.
<zul> *groan*
<ScottK> I think there should be community consensus for change.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and you're saying that the wiki *doesnt* need to be cleaned up?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No.  I'm just saying it needs to be thought through and I read (incorrectly as it happens) his mail to ubuntu-devel as saying he was starting.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: hte problem with wiki cleanup is lack of involvement.  not as to what should be done.
<ScottK> This question isn't should it be cleaned up, but what should the end state look like.
<siretart> ScottK: Hobbsee: hm. it seems to me that we have several problems here
<Hobbsee> clearly you havent done wiki cleanup before.
<siretart> which need to be adressed seperately
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I have been the victim of poorly done onese.
<siretart> one problem seems to be that the meetings need to imporive themselves, since they fail to produce any useful results
<Hobbsee> did you try to help?
<siretart> a meeting without results is worthless
<zul> if there is discussion for everything nothing would get done
<ScottK> zul: Sometimes that's not a bad result.
<siretart> the other problem is the sponsorship process
<Hobbsee> siretart: it's an excuse to rant, which it seems that some people like.
<ScottK> siretart: I feel like we got a useful result on the sponsorship process.
<siretart> Hobbsee: what is an excuse to rant? the sponsorship process?
<Hobbsee> siretart: no, the meeting.
<Hobbsee> as in, that it's a place to rant.
<siretart> ScottK: right. this means the meeting wasn't worthless at all! :)
<Hobbsee> besides, i'm hesitant to do too much in this release, as things are likely to further change, as the members of the motu-uvf, MC, MOTU in general, etc, are giong to change.
<siretart> Hobbsee: I think we should work on that. read: improve the meetings
<TheMuso> siretart: First, I think we need more attendance, something which my mail will hopefully spark more of.
<siretart> TheMuso: I honestly can't imagine that more attendance is going to improve the quality of the meeting
<nil> is there somewhere a reference on manpages conventions?
<ScottK> nil: Did you try man man
<broonie> nil: 'man 7 man'
* Hobbsee suspects that if one forces meeting attendances, saying that processes will only be decided in meetings, most people will either look for the minutes afterwards, or just ignore whatever came out of it.
* siretart agrees with Hobbsee 
<siretart> need to leave (again) :( - bye
<Hobbsee> at least for me, i'm aware that the sponsorship process will probably change another few times over before we start doing new packages...
<ScottK> Agreed, but I think that's still and improvement over "I sent mail to the mailing list and no one replied, so here's the way it is...".
<nil> broonie: thanks
<Hobbsee> so what's hte point in looking at it now?
<MehdiHassanpour> hi motu, how can I categorize packages in a repository? for example to have "backports" "meta" "main" ... categories
<ScottK> Hobbsee: For merges and bugfixes.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: so it's reasonble to force meeting attendance, even when it's at crazy hours of the morning?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm not saying it's ideal.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, the ideal is to use said mailing list, and give people time to respond.  and that it's a responsibilty to either read all the mail, or prioritize it, and read the important stuff.
<ScottK> Actially I think it's better to leave it on the ML, but require some degree of positive agreement before change is made.
<broonie> A practice some other organisations have adopted is to stick to a pre-published agenda for the IRC meeting that decides things. People can raise issues/voice support on either.
<broonie> Seems to work *tolerably* well.
<Hobbsee> broonie: that would be the smart option - and requires that people have the time to do so.
<Hobbsee> of course, as to how much time is wasted on irc is an interesting question.
<broonie> To make it work it really needs people being very firm about not going letting things on to the agenda that weren't pre-announed.
<ScottK> Additionally, one can allow for e-mail input to be represented at the meeting if someone can't make it.
<Hobbsee> broonie: of which a prerequisite is that pepole put things on the agenda...
<ScottK> Also need a cutoff time for adding stuff.
<ScottK> The PPA/sponsoring thing was on the agenda, but I only added it yesterday.
<ScottK> All things considered that was late.
<broonie> Hobbsee: Yes, the idea is that the no discussion thing acts as a stick ther.e
<nil> my package provides 332 binaries... (basic image processing tools)
<nil> I decided to put them in /usr/lib/package/modules/
<nil> and make a shell wrapper in /usr/bin
<nil> is it a good decision?
<soren> nil: Sounds sensible, yes :)
<nil> upstream : http://www.cmla.ens-cachan.fr/Cmla/Megawave/
<\sh> grmpf
<ScottK> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> ppa looks very very nice
<bersace> a god step before multiverse !
<bersace> *good
<bersace> i plan to use ppa to publish babl, gegl and gnome-scan
<begert_work> I like the sound of god step
<jussi01> Good afternoon everyone
<jussi01> What is the proceedure for a man page for a plugin? there are no switches, it cant be run from the command line. do I need a man page?
<nil> soren: all these binaries use a common lib (this lib is only used by these binaries). Do I *have* to ship the lib in a different package?
<soren> nil: Nono, not at all.
<soren> nil: That's only for libraries that other program could find a use for.
<josephpiche> jussi01, what is the plugin for
<jussi01> josephpiche: gimp
<nil> soren: so, how can I get rif off the dpkg-shlibdeps: warnings?
<nil> hmmm
<nil> soren: sorry, i think it's another problem finally
<nil> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of `NEEDED libsysmw.so' not recognized
<soren> nil: Yes, that's because "libsysmw.so" does not give any information about the version.
<soren> Not the file.
<soren> The string.
<nil> ah
<nil> yes, I heard about the soname and versions problems in packaging
<josephpiche> jussi01, i don't think you need to write a man page for it
<jussi01> josephpiche: just create some generic "man page" with a breif decription on it?
<nil> I guess I should rename libsysmw.so and add a link libsysmw.so -> libsysmw.so.3.0.1
<josephpiche> jussi01, is it being called from the terminal?
<jussi01> josephpiche: no. once installed, it is called from the layer menu in gimp.
<josephpiche> jussi01, then a man page is unnecessary if you can go to the plugin-browser and view the information there
<jussi01> josephpiche: great. what about the lintian warning - do i need to do something about it or can i just leave it?
<bersace> Hi, can anyone validate my launchpad-users account ?
<bersace> s/account/membership/ ?
<josephpiche> jussi01, honestly I don't know--my guess is as long as the plugin is fairly documented in the plugin browser, its fine
<jussi01> josephpiche: It seems so. I might just put a generic one in just to get rid of the warning.
<dholbach> <ScottK> TheMuso: The "alternative sponsorship" process dholbach had put on the wiki is supposed to not be used until the debdiff thing gets fixed.
<ScottK> dholbach: Except people were using it.
<dholbach> ScottK: 1) it's perfectly valid for people who want to try it, 2) perfectly valid for things like new upstream versions or NEW packages - though I expect not much of the latter to happen this time around
<bersace> thanks :)
<dholbach> ScottK: I believe the bug about PPA uploads closing Ubuntu bugs is fixed now.
<dholbach> ScottK: at least I got a mail saying 'Fix Released' today
<ScottK> dholbach: That's good to hear.
<dholbach> siretart: there were a few decisions: 1) I'll make ppaput have a debdiff option, I appreciate help and input with that
<huats> gouki: ping
<dholbach> siretart: 2) talk to LP people to find out what their plans for ppa-related changelog entries / section changes are (especially since a 'copy this source package over' feature was requested)
<dholbach> siretart: 3) SponsorshipProcess was changed to make sure people understand that I did not intend it to forcefully change any processes
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Damn, I just missed another meeting didn't I?? :'-(
<dholbach> 'Evil Canonical Empire (tm)' *snort*
<dholbach> Hobbsee: thanks, I needed a laugh
<Hobbsee> dholbach: :D
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach
<siretart> dholbach: thanks for the summary. its really useful since its not easy to reconstruct that from the backlog
<dholbach> siretart: yes, I can see that - also TheMuso wanted to write minutes for the meeting
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee back
* bddebian dances around the room
<zul> dholbach: yeah didnt you know Canonical = little microsoft ;)
<bddebian> doh
<dholbach> zul: nobody told me that...
<ScottK> JFTR, I don't think that.  I would just like to see some consensus around process change beyond no one objected.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: they dont tell the insiders that.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: if the insiders knew, they may revolt.  and how can you have an Evil Empire (tm), if the workers are revolting?
<nixternal> oh man, don't say "evil empire", "canonical", and "revolting" all together in a logged channel...osnews is just waiting to pounce on a fud article based off of those 3 terms :p
<zul> Hobbsee: then you would have a banana republic...mmmmm bananaies
<nixternal> hahaha
<Hobbsee> nixternal: haha
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser.  At least someone still says hi to me. :-)
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<bddebian> heh, Hi ScottK
* ScottK was busy being old and cranky in #launchpad.
<bddebian> ScottK: So what's new? ;-P
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> Being cranky at sabdfl is something I do only rarely.
<zul> riiiiiight ;)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: because you're afraid he'll smite you with a lightning bolt?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Not at all.  It just doesn't come up that often.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: BTW, in the future if you're going to do that, I'd appreciate it if you'd invite me along.  I don't routinely hang out in #launchpad.
<ScottK> The last one was his plan for special Beryl MOTUs.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: they asked for the logs.  who knew that they were planning to discuss it.
<ScottK> K
<ScottK> No problem.  All's well that ends well.  I think it was a useful discussion.
<marseillai> hi
<marseillai> is there something special to use with CDBS to make it use lrelease when building qt apps ???
<jussi01> marseillai: Have a read in here. https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<marseillai> jussi01: yes i've read it but this guy is not really fond of qt things ...
<marseillai> thanks anyway
<jussi01> marseillai: the arent many other docs about cdbs - its a bit of a black hole...
<jussi01> hmmm, someone remind me of what the file that you list your manpages under so they get installed should be called?
<bddebian> bugs bugs and more bugs... :-(
<Hobbsee> bddebian: get fixing :)
<bddebian> I'm trying but I suck :-(
<Hobbsee> suck less, then.
<bddebian> heh, I wish I could :-)
<geser> bddebian: you always complain that you suck but you still get the work done, so I don't believe you
<jussi01> lol
* pochu looks for a volunteer to sync gnome-build from debian with pitti's script
<bddebian> geser: And what do I get done exactly? :-)
<pochu> It's really easy :-) './syncpackage http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gnome-build/gnome-build_0.2.0-2.dsc gutsy'
<geser> bddebian: didn't you successfully resolved some FTBFS?
<geser> jussi01: man dh_installman
<gnomefreak> if anyone knows a way for fixing the following issue please give me a hand. In gutsy i changed res tto 1600x1200 and than i had to use menu on monitor to make screen fit (without black edges) now gdm/kdm is too big for screen using monitor buttons didnt help this at all.
<bddebian> geser: Me? Nah :-)
<gnomefreak> gdm/kdm if i move mouse to edge it scrolls/moves to see the rest of it (happens on all 4 sides)
<jussi01> geser: thanks :)
<pochu> Please, not all at the same time :)
<geser> bddebian: so you upload packages to gutsy just for fun ? :) see https://edge.launchpad.net/~bddebian/+packages how man you did
<bddebian> Damn, my cover is blown.. :-)
<pochu> bddebian: oh, do you upload packages just for fun? then you will enjoy uploading gnome-build for me :-)
<pochu> bddebian: it has pitti's approval, but I can't do it myself, since I'm not a MOTU ... *yet*
<bddebian> Upload from where?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hi all
<bddebian> Hello Le-Chuck_ITA
<pochu> bddebian: from debian. it's a sync, but the archive-admins can't do it, since it's failing from them
<pochu> bddebian: pitti told me to run './syncpackage http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gnome-build/gnome-build_0.2.0-2.dsc gutsy'
<bddebian> pochu: I am not set up for syncpackage unfortunately
<pochu> bddebian: syncpackage == http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage
<pochu> just wget it and chmod +x :-)
<pochu> please please please :-)
<bddebian> Don't I have to have the debian repos in sources.list to use that?
<pochu> nope, since you tell him the .dsc
<pochu> bddebian: at least I don't have them and it worked here :-)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Following recent discussion on mailing lists, is a bug marked as "incomplete" usually skipped by developers?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and if so, if a bug stays in "incomplete" status for months after I provided requested information, should I set it to new? Or maybe I could confirm that myself?
<ScottK> Yes.  It's for bugsquad and ubuntu-qa to work with reporters to get them not incomplete.
<zul> Le-Chuck_ITA: developers should check to see if they are still incomplete imho
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so, take Bug #85071 as an example
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 85071 in gnome-cups-manager "hpijs should be the default driver for HP laserjet printers" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85071
<Le-Chuck_ITA> it's still a problem in gutsy
<Le-Chuck_ITA> maybe developers should look after that, but they will never look at that bug
<ScottK> If you can confirm it and provide the missing information, that's a good thing to do.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but if I reported that, it's not good to confirm it myself is it?
<pochu> bddebian: oh, when it asks to use your gpg or not, tell yes :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> is it ok to confirm my own bugs or should I just try to add a comment and see what happens?
<gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: no its nto good to confirm your own bugs
<zul> its better to get someone other than you to verify it
<gnomefreak> it kind of means nothing in the sense as you confirm it fails on your system (thats not confirmed)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> in particular, if somebody could take a look at bug #81960... it's one of those minor points that can make people laugh in front of ubuntu
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81960 in gnome-power-manager "gnome-power-manager says that HAL was unable to hibernate right after hibernation" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81960
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I think everybody has seen this, it should just be confirmed in order to get it onto somebody's todo list
<Le-Chuck_ITA> maybe it really needs info, because I just provided a description of the symptom
<gnomefreak> that bug is old by the looks of the number
<gnomefreak> we are above 150000
<gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: what version of ubuntu are you seeing this on atm?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> now on gutsy, but it's there since edgy
<gnomefreak> yeah i saw that
<Le-Chuck_ITA> or, to tell the truth, now I can see that on gutsy for suspend-to-ram
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but it's the same issue
<gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: i dont  have laptop atm its hiding from me so i cant test
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Nah.  Just 141000
<gnomefreak> is that all ;)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I know, but it's a common problem: hal takes some error code somewhere, and reports it as a failure to hibernate, while it's likely the error code of some pre- or post- hibernation script
<gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: the 2 people that i can think of that would be helpfull there are already subscribed i havent see either in the past week though maybe they are on holiday or just busy
<gnomefreak> but that is all i know of at this time
<Le-Chuck_ITA> gnomefreak: I opened the bug in january :)
<gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: yes i know
<Le-Chuck_ITA> that's ok but I will go crazy after this some day
<ScottK> StevenK: The perl thing I mentioned last night has evolved into being both Perl and regex's.  Is that enough fun for you: Bug #141546.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141546 in libnet-dns-perl "make_query_packet() IP address detection broken" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141546
<gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: im not saying it excuses them i only remember recently since i havent had that bug, Im betting there is one open for same reason that is newer
<Le-Chuck_ITA> gnomefreak: I wouldn't expect developers to need excuses, if they have something else to do that's ok, problem is that in general, we have absolutely no means to change the situation, when a bug we reported stays in "incomplete" status for months, and this is very bad from a bug reporter's perspective
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I'm not here to complain
<Le-Chuck_ITA> just expected that there was a solution
<gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: maybe check in #ubuntu-bugs as most of the triagers hang out in there
<gnomefreak> with hal its hard to say who would beable to help on that
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Ok, thanks
<jussi01> Hmmm,what are the different priorities I can have? lintian is telling me it doesnt like low
<jussi01> ??
<bddebian> pochu:
<bddebian> Traceback (most recent call last):
<bddebian>   File "./syncpackage", line 62, in <module>
<bddebian>     cur_ver = cur_version(srcpkg, release)
<bddebian>   File "./syncpackage", line 25, in cur_version
<bddebian>     raise Exception('apt-cache madison does not contain %s/%s' % (sourcepkg, release))
<bddebian> Exception: apt-cache madison does not contain gnome-build/gutsy
<pochu> emilio@kiko:~$ apt-cache madison gnome-build
<pochu> gnome-build |    0.1.7-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources
<ScottK> bddebian: How did you invoke the magic script?
<bddebian> Oh crap, this is on my feisty box
<pochu> :)
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't think I can get to my gutsy machine from here.
<pochu> Ouch
<bddebian> I wonder what would happen if I ran it from a pbuilder login? :-)
<pochu> If you have a good /etc/apt/sources.list, it should work, shouldn't it?
<bddebian> Aye but I don't have my gpg in a pbuilder, eh?
<jussi01> how do I fix it if lintian tells me: manpage
<jussi01> gah
<jussi01>  gimp-lqr-plugin source: native-package-with-dash-version
<jussi01> that...
<pochu> bddebian: true that :-)
<pochu> bddebian: when will you be able to get to your gutsy box? I can wait, if it's not a week ;)
<bddebian> After work :)
<pochu> Cool :)
<bddebian> Damn some days I hate SQL
<soren> bddebian: The days that match "/.*day/" ?
<ion_> A good object-oriented abstraction library for SQL is nice.
<bddebian> No, left/inner joins that don't match anything :-)
<jussi01> Hmm, are there problems with revu recognising people?
<jussi01> I cant seem to recover as it doesnt recognise me
<jussi01> ahhh... nm, seems to be ok now.
<jussi01> could someone please revue gimp-lqr-plugin: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=277 Please!!
<bluekuja_> jussi01, it wont be included into gutsy
<jussi01> bluekuja_: I understand that.
<bluekuja_> jussi01, and no one will review that until hardy development starts
<bluekuja_> I guess
<jussi01> bluekuja_: ok. Im just hoping someone to check it, both as practice for me, as well as making sure it is a good deb for when I put it in my ppa.
<bluekuja_> jussi01, ok :)
<bluekuja_> jussi01, I just wanted to explain you
<bluekuja_> you should be patient for a little while more
<bluekuja_> :)
<jussi01> bluekuja_: :)
<bddebian> How the frick do you change the distribution on bugs anymore??
<ScottK> bddebian: Nominate for release after marking it fix released if it's fixed in the developmental version (i.e. Gutsy).
<ScottK> \sh_away: Any thoughts on uploading the WINE revision listed in the bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/139001
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139001 in wine "UVF exception request for Wine 0.9.45" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<bddebian> ScottK: Thanks
<ScottK> No problem.  I've got to do my bit to help out the youngsters.
<bddebian> hah, touche
* ScottK is, however, no longer the oldest MOTU.
<ScottK> We can crown norsetto when he gets back from vacation.
<Kano> hi, did someone test aufs with -12- kernel?
<Kano> it does not work, not even current cvs
<Kano> with 10 it worked
<zul> Kano: i doubt someone has tested it
<Kano> it is better than that always broken unionfs...
<zul> maybe so but we arent going to rip out unionfs now
<Kano> thats very stupid...
<Kano> and how about fixing aufs at least?
<zul> is there a bug open about it?
<Nafallo> what the heck is aufs?
<Nafallo> some kind of sound filesystem?
<Kano> another unionfs
<Kano> more stable
<Nafallo> oh my
<Nafallo> I should get a pound for every filesystem out there and I'd be a rich man...
* jdong cries about unionfs
<jdong> hopefully this time alternate doesn't blow up on me
<zul> Kano: it doesnt even build on 2.6.22 so why bother it doesnt even support 2.6.23 yet according to the cvs
<zul> anyways im done
<Kano> it had built up to 2.6.22-10
<Kano> before the kernel change
<Vegar> maybe you guys know how to recompile the kernel without having to also compile the ubuntu-modules and restricted-modules packages?
<Kano> the ubuntu modules package is needed for hda-intel and other drivers
<Vegar> Kano: yes, that is correct
<Amaranth> woohoo
* Amaranth uploads a bunch of broken stuff to universe ;)
<bddebian> w00t
<ScottK> Amaranth: Congrats.
<ScottK> Amaranth: No worry.  bddebian will complain about how he's worthless to fix it.
<bddebian> Aye :'-(
<ScottK> Of course then he'll fix half of them while I look at the first.
<bddebian> ScottK: You are so full of s**t your eyes are brown :-)
<nixternal> BOO!
<marseillai> Could someone explain me why this debian/rules : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38169/ create me some _i386 AND some _all .deb package?
* bddebian runs from nixternal :-)
<nixternal> jeesh I am beeing bugged big time
<nixternal> I should start telling people for all things Kubuntu, go to ScottK
<macd> just reassign them in LP ;)
<nixternal> holy shat, I think I am just going to go ahead and commit suicide
<ScottK> Don't do that.  We wouldn't be able to do this anymore:
<ScottK> !nizternal
<ScottK> !nixternal
<ScottK> even
<ScottK> without feeling guilty.
<nixternal> nizternal :)
<ajmitch> good morning
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about nizternal - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> hrmm, ubotu didn't work
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> mornin' there ajmitch
<nixternal> you sleep well?
<macd> hahah@ pointy clicky
<ajmitch> average
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> nixternal: I always say that I'm more of an ubuntu-server type motu and a Kubuntu user/tester.
<ScottK> Then I point them at you.
<nixternal> but I don't know anything about anything
<nixternal> I wonder if I am slowly burning out
<macd> I think everyone gets hot and cold moments
<macd> my cold ones just last for months ;)
<nixternal> but I am always cold :)
<bddebian> later folks
<ScottK> See you later bddebian
<macd> unfortunately my borg overlords take more of my time daily away from linux
* ajmitch wonders who did some massive bug processing
<ajmitch> I'm getting a huge pile of mail from ubuntu-bugs
<nixternal> I know it wasn't me
<nixternal> holy smokes, I just got a ton of mail from ubuntu-bugs as well
<nixternal> darn LP bugger
<cfalco> good evening everyone!
<cfalco> I know package freeze is behind
<cfalco> however I've updated my package on revu
<cfalco> is there anyone willing to review it?
<cfalco> http://ed2k.2x4u.de/mprmt58r/max/server.met
<cfalco> wrong paste :(
<cfalco> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=259
<cfalco> or on my ppa
<cfalco> http://ppa.launchpad.net/c.falco/ubuntu/
<cfalco> thanks!
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ScottK> Hello sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<sistpoty> ha, finally internet is back for me... after being offline at home for two days :)
<ajmitch> painful :)
<firefly2442> I need to file a bug about the gnome trashcan, what project would that be under?
<sistpoty> hehe
<firefly2442> launchpad is kinda confusing
<firefly2442> ah here we go, it's already registered as a bug good
<gnomefreak> how does ubuntu handle the settings when you use the monitor buttons to move screen make largers ect ...?
<gnomefreak> seems using the monitor buttons to change it effects gdm/kdm horribly and its annoying as hell
<firefly2442> Is a .diff.gz file necessary in a package?
<geser> firefly2442: yes and no. yes for a non-native package and no for a native package
<mruiz> hi all. I want to save a logfile for pbuilder but --logfile option doesn't work. Any idea?
<TheMuso> mruiz: What do you mean it doesn't work?
<marseillai> mruiz: >> logfile.txt doesn't suit you ?
<mruiz> TheMuso, it doesn't save a file . I used sudo pbuilder build .....  --logfile pbuilder.log
<mruiz> marseillai, I tried to use pbuilder options :-)
<TheMuso> mruiz: Have you tried using --logfile straight after build? So sudo pbuilder --logfile logfile.txt package.dsc?
<marseillai> does someone could help me?
<marseillai> i'm trying to make a wrapper
<marseillai> but when i run debuild it is delet.
<TheMuso> marseillai: Where did you put the wrapper script?
<marseillai> in debian dir TheMuso
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-22
<TheMuso> And you are saying it gets deleted when you run debuild? What arguments are you passing to debuild?
<marseillai> debuild -S -sa
<TheMuso> Have you checked debian/rules to see if it does anything that would cause the file to be deleted?
<marseillai> i can show it to you
<marseillai> but i've don't see anything
<TheMuso> Ok. When you say its deleted, did you look in the debian directory after you ran the debuild command?
<marseillai> TheMuso: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38176/
<marseillai> yes i've look into debian dir after debuild
<TheMuso> ok
<marseillai> the files are really deleted
<mruiz> TheMuso, with your tip my pbuilder log is working ;-) Thanks!
<TheMuso> marseillai: Ok, there certainly is nothing there that should cause the file to be deleted.
<TheMuso> mruiz: You're welcome.
<marseillai> TheMuso: you have other idea ??
<TheMuso> marseillai: Not without seeing your wrapper script, the package you are working on, and know ing the reason why you are creating a wrapper script in the first place.
<marseillai> TheMuso: if i upload to revu coulp you take a look on that problem ?
<TheMuso> marseillai: Certainly.
<marseillai> in fact i just think that if i upload to revu the wrapper will not be there
<marseillai> so this is my wrapper : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38177/
<TheMuso> marseillai: theres nothing there
<TheMuso> sorry, yes there is
<marseillai> ah
<marseillai> what ?
<TheMuso> marseillai: Why are you running something from /usr/share? /usr/share should not have any binaries in it.
<marseillai> i must set binaries and lib in the same directory for this apps TheMuso it's the reason i'm using the wrapper. i want install this wrapper in usr/bin
<TheMuso> marseillai: In that case, I would contact the upstream author of the package, and demand they change it. That is a very bad way of doing things.
<jebivjetar> * The root meaning of the word kolo is a wheel or circle, and it is the word used all over Southern Slav lands for the national dance in which both men and women join, taking hold of hands; the number of dancers increasing and the circle extending as the dance proceeds. Even in the remotest hamlets the dancing of the kolo is the best-loved form of recreation. Groups of village children,...
<jebivjetar> Our God hath poured His wrath upon the Serbs,
<jebivjetar> For deadly sins withdrawn His favour from us:
<jebivjetar> Our Rulers trampled underfoot all law,
<jebivjetar> With bloody hatred fought each other down.
<jebivjetar> Tore from fraternal brows the living eyes:
<TheMuso> If they won't, it needs to be patched.
<jebivjetar> Authority and Law they cast aside,
<jebivjetar> Instead chose folly as their rule and guide!
<jebivjetar> And those who served our kings became untrue,
<jebivjetar> Crimson they bathed themselves in kingly blood!
<jebivjetar> Our noblemen - Gods curse be on their souls -
<jebivjetar> Did tear and rend the Kingdom into pieces,
<jebivjetar> And wasted wantonly our people's power.
<jebivjetar> The Serbian magnates - may their name rot out! -
<Fujitsu> !ops
<ubotu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, or fbond
<jebivjetar> They scatterd broadcast Discords evil seed,
<jebivjetar> And poisoned thus the life-springs of our race.
<jebivjetar> Our Serbian chiefs, most miserable cowards,
<jebivjetar> The Serbian stock did heartlessly betray.
<jebivjetar> Accursed be Kossvos Evening Meal;
<jebivjetar> Far better had it been if from that hour
<jebivjetar> Our magnates all had disappeard for aye!
<jebivjetar> If only Milosh still remaind unto us,
<Fujitsu> jebivjetar: Stop.
<jebivjetar> With his two valiant Pbratims,
<jebivjetar> Then Serb would be with Serb to-day.
<jebivjetar> Thou Brankovitch, of stock despicable,
<jebivjetar> Should one serve so his Fatherland,
<jebivjetar> Thus much is Honesty esteemd?
<jebivjetar> Who, Milosh, would not envy thee?
<jebivjetar> A victim thou to thine own truth and worth!
<jebivjetar> All-puissant spirit in the things of War;
<jebivjetar> A thunder mighty which did shatter thrones!
<jebivjetar> The deeds thy knightly soul hath wrought.
<jebivjetar> Outshine all lustre of the Past, -
<jebivjetar> The fame of Sparta and of mighty Rome!
<jebivjetar> Their valiant and heroic feats
<jebivjetar> Are all surpassd by thy proud arm.
<jebivjetar> Where is Leonidas. where Scaevola,
<jebivjetar> When Obilitch doth enter the arena?
<jebivjetar> That arm of thine with but one only stroke
<jebivjetar> Brought down a throne and made all Hell to quake!
<jebivjetar> Yet Milosh fell, most marvellous of knights,
<jebivjetar> A victim fell unto the world's great Scourge.
<jebivjetar> In proud repose the puissant Leader lies:
<jebivjetar> There from his veins did spurt his noble blood,
<jebivjetar> Where he so proudly trod a while before,
<jebivjetar> His breast possessd by one sole dread intent,
<jebivjetar> As he did press his way through Asias hordes,
<jebivjetar> He swallowd them with his great eyes of fire
<jebivjetar> Where he so proudly trod a while before.
<jebivjetar> Seeking his hallowd tomb and life immortal,
<marseillai> TheMuso: it's too much complicated for me to make this sort of patch
<jebivjetar> Scorning alike the failures of small men,
<jebivjetar> And all that false and senseless company.
<jebivjetar> Our God hath pourd His wrath upon the Serbs!
<jebivjetar> A seven-headed monster He sent forth
<jebivjetar> To plague and extirpate the Serbian Name,
<TheMuso> marseillai: Ok upload to revu, and I'll have a look.
<jebivjetar> Be they betrayers or be they betrayd.
<jebivjetar> On falling rums of a realm heroic
<jebivjetar> Did Milosh shine with firm and constant justice;
<jebivjetar> Crowned be too, with an undying glory,
<jebivjetar> Those pbratims who steadfast were to Milosh;
<Fujitsu> LjL: You don't have powers here :(
<jebivjetar> Not less the lovely Jugovitch bouquet!
<jebivjetar> So parsed the Serbian Cap and Name away:
<LjL> Fujitsu: afraid so
<jebivjetar> Warrior lions gave place to ploughmen,
<jebivjetar> While selfish poltroons took Mohammed's creed, -
<jebivjetar> Their Serbian milk shall ever bring them plague!
<jebivjetar> All those who scaped from death by Moslem sword,
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o LjL]  by ChanServ
<jebivjetar> All those who still held true to Christian faith,
<jebivjetar> Who with abhorrence thought of bonds and chains,
<jebivjetar> All such as these took flight to mountains grey,
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*@12-214-39-49.client.mchsi.com]  by LjL
<LjL> well it seems i do
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o LjL]  by LjL
<geser> thanks LjL
<Fujitsu> Hm, you're not on the access list.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<LjL> indeed, it's a bit weird
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o LjL]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o LjL]  by LjL
<LjL> *shrug*
<TheMuso> Reminds me of all that nonsense spam that circulates via email.
<Fujitsu> Heh
<geser> spam filters for irc?
<Amaranth> So does anyone know how I get access to the ubuntu-devel ml?
<Amaranth> Without having all mails get stuck in the moderation queue
<ScottK> Amaranth: Subscribe and some magive LP foo will take care of it.
<ScottK> magive/magic
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I don't think it's magical at the moment.
<Amaranth> I am subscribed
<ScottK> Not while LP is down for maintenance, no.
<Amaranth> Have been for a _long_ time
<Amaranth> I'll just try a mail and see what happens
<ScottK> Fujitsu: IIRC I didn't have to do anything to have voice on the list.
<Fujitsu> Hm, OK.
<Fujitsu> Well, they do have the mailman guy, IIRC, so it might be automatic.
<ScottK> Well I'm old so I forget stuff too.
<geser> doesn't it get checked against the registered emails for the devs in LP?
<Amaranth> Then I'd better wait for LP to come back :)
<ScottK> Of course it may have been done before it went away.  As you will.
<geser> Amaranth: is the e-mail which you use for writing to the ml registered in LP?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o TestLjL]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o LjL]  by TestLjL
<TheMuso> Amaranth: congrats!
<Amaranth> geser: yeah
<Amaranth> TheMuso: thanks
* Fujitsu wonders a couple of things. 1) Why don't they give us more than 15 minutes warning. 2) Why do they need to have two hours of updates within 24 hours.
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: 1.1.9 broke something?
<ScottK> Closing half the bugs got it tired.
<Amaranth> hahaha
<Amaranth> i got flooded
* ScottK too.
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Shouldn't take an hour to cherrypick, really.
* Fujitsu got about 150.
<pwnguin> i wouldnt be surpised if gmail decided to mark it as spam
<Amaranth> i bet they're doing the closing before bringing it back on, was probably too much email
<Fujitsu> I was going to go through them, but they took it down :(
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Haha.
<Amaranth> Sending close notices to multiple people for thousands of bugs all in a few minutes...ouch
<Fujitsu> And we're going to get a whole lot of unclosing emails next week, when they run the maintenance to revert some of the changes that shouldn't have been made.
<TheMuso> oh fun
<Amaranth> Really annoying that it closed bugs that were marked as a dupe of another bug
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: That's one of the corner cases to be cherrypicked next week, AFAIK.
<marseillai> TheMuso: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=279 sorry for the delay revu was slow to refresh
<Amaranth> Marking it as a dupe should have closed it, now I know why the desktop team always marks bugs as invalid before
<Fujitsu> Along with not killing things if there are upstream tasks, if they're milestoned, etc.
<TheMuso> marseillai: Ok thanks, I will have a look very shortly.
<TheMuso> brb
<marseillai> thanks
* pwnguin spent last night reading about open source prediction markets
<pwnguin> i've yet to figure out why libertarians love open source
<pwnguin> but i'll take their software all the same
<ScottK> Of course I got stony glares in #launchpad this morning when I said I thought they needed to do a better job of thinking through new features BEFORE implementation.
<ScottK> Urgh.
<pwnguin> im thinking debian could use a prediction market or two to determine release dates ;)
<geser> night *
<Fujitsu> ScottK: And this was before the great janitor session of 3 hours ago?
<TheMuso> marseillai: Have you packaged this from scratch?
<marseillai> yes
<marseillai> euh
<marseillai> what do you call from scratch ?
<TheMuso> marseillai: Why do you have several debian directories, debian-tmp, and debian-cdbs?
<marseillai> arf
<marseillai> it was some try
<TheMuso> ok
<marseillai> i've remove debiantemp and debiancdbs
<TheMuso> I am checking now whether the package builds successfully.
<marseillai> for me it build fine
<marseillai> just this problem with wrapper. :(
<TheMuso> Yep ok. I'll see how it ges built, and will be able to work things out from there.
<TheMuso> marseillai: Well the package doesn't build for me.
<TheMuso> WHile the actual code builds, the package doesn't.
<marseillai> it must tell you that dh_install can't move debian/itestserver
<TheMuso> marseillai: Yes.
<marseillai> because he try to move the wrapper dut it doesn't exist anymore
<TheMuso> marseillai: Were you packaging this in the hope you could get it into Ubuntu?
<marseillai> yep
<TheMuso> Ok.
<marseillai> why ?
<TheMuso> marseillai: It means that I will now have a good look at the package, and leave you some comments on revu.
<marseillai> TheMuso: wait it's not ready to a revu
<TheMuso> And we can get it ready for hardy, when it opens.
<marseillai> absolutly not
<TheMuso> marseillai: Ok then, I'll work out how it needs patching, and then you can let us know when it is ready to review.
<marseillai> i don't want to loose your time
<marseillai> TheMuso: in fact for the moment my problem is with this wrapper... :s
<TheMuso> marseillai: No its fine
<TheMuso> marseillai: As I said, I think its better to correct the source somehow.
<marseillai> it's far from my possibility
<marseillai> but i'll try
<TheMuso> marseillai: As I said, i am happy to help you do that.
<marseillai> in all the code all the path are hardcoded
<TheMuso> marseillai: Ok. Then we need to change that, and send a patch to the upstream developers.
<marseillai> it's something i absolutly don't know
<marseillai> but i'm ok to learn
<TheMuso> marseillai: Thats ok.
<TheMuso> Great.
<marseillai> and even happy to learn
<marseillai> i'm currently looking at main_window.ui and see this :               <iconset resource="resources.qrc" >:/images/images/folder_red.png</iconset>
<porthose> I am working on a package and I noticed that some of it's components are released under PHP License Version 3.01 and Creative Commons Attribute-Share Alike 2.0 Generic would these licenses keep this package out of Ubuntu?
<pwnguin> currently i think so =/
<Fujitsu> CC BY-SA is OK, I think. And I presume the PHP one is.
<pwnguin> i wonder if they "mix"
<marseillai> TheMuso: do you see the reason why my wrapper is deleted because it disturb me.
<TheMuso> marseillai: No, I haven't worked that out yet, as it is not the best solution.
<marseillai> oki
<TheMuso> marseillai: WHat made you think the iTestServer and iTestClient binaries should go into usr/share?
<marseillai> TheMuso: how could they know where are the iconset?
<TheMuso> marseillai: As far as I have determined, the icons actually get built into the binary themselves.
<TheMuso> marseillai: The best way to test that, is to build the binaries by hand, copy them somewhere else outside the source directory, and attempt to run them.
<marseillai> it's what i've just do and you are right
<marseillai> i test with langage
<TheMuso> ok
<marseillai> so great
<marseillai> the apps doesn't need anything! :)
<marseillai> thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> So, you can install the binaries into /usr/bin, and no wrapper is needed.
<TheMuso> marseillai: You're welcome.
<marseillai> now i'll polish it and send it to revu for hardy! :)
<marseillai> certainly tomorow
<TheMuso> Ok great.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes.  It was when I was whining about the new package summary pages
<jdong> uh oh it's starting again?
<Fujitsu> Oh, right.
<ScottK> jdong: What?
<jdong> just messing with you, scott :)
<zul> evening
<zul> !uvf
<ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<ScottK> zul: Just follow Nancy Reagan's advice.
<zul> erp?
<pwnguin> "nobody can make you feel bad without your permission?"
<ScottK> zul: Just say no.
<zul> oh
<ScottK> For UVF in this case.
<zul> well that comes next
<ajmitch> oh, I tested pylint from sid, with its dependencies updated, it works well
<ajmitch> my code that I tested it on doesn't work so well :)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: More specifically not showing the different pockets on the package page and in particular showing the backports version in preference to the release version if it was newer.
<ScottK> And then they said ...
<pwnguin> i wonder if source packages should include test cases =/
<ScottK> "We didn't think about backports."
<ScottK> That's when I opinined that more design and less execution might be helpful.
<ScottK> pwnguin: Perl ones often do.
<ScottK> zul: Great comment on the UVFe!
<zul> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> ajmitch: As long as it's depends don't have a lot of rdepends, I'd go for pylint.
<ajmitch> ok
<pwnguin> ok, ive filed a bug, attached a debdiff, and subscribed ubuntu-motu-sponsors; is it a matter of waiting now?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Yes.
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Whats the bug?
<TheMuso> I might have a look in a sec.
<pwnguin> 141015
<TheMuso> bug 141015
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141015 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Correctly pass path to dch" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141015
<pwnguin> err no
<pwnguin> bug 140890
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140890 in cwiid "wminput should provide udev rule" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140890
<pwnguin> im not very familiar with udev though, so there's probably a better way to handle it
<TheMuso> Ok I'll ook in a bit.
<Fujitsu> No LP in 15 minutes for an hour, again.
<TheMuso> great.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> I wonder if it might be better for them to test changes on a copy of the production DB beforehand.
<TheMuso> Likewise.
<TheMuso> pwnguin: I suggest you use dh_installudev instead.
<TheMuso> pwnguin: And you forgot to change the maintainer.
<TheMuso> If I were cjwatson right now, I'd be fuming. He likely is already.
<ScottK> It sounds like he is.
<pwnguin> about lp or forgetting to installudev?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: I suggest you use the dh_installudev command to install the udev rules file. You also forgot to change the maintainer to Ubuntu MOTU Developers, and set the XSBC-Original-Maintainer.
<pwnguin> TheMuso: i didnt touch the maintainer and the package came from ubuntu
<pwnguin> i thought that should have been changed already, but ill look into it
<TheMuso> pwnguin: The package is from Debian, but you are making an Ubuntu modification. so we need to indicate that we main it, since we have made a change.
<TheMuso> pwnguin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
* minghua wonders if the LP new rollout will fix the "mark old duplicated bug invalid" annoyance.
<pochu> good night!
<jdong> ubotu: hey hon, how are you doing?
<pwnguin> is there a script to automatically alter the maintainters field for MOTU?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yes.  In ubuntu-dev-tools, X I believe.
<RAOF> Called something useful like 'update-maintainer'
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> well, there's a wiki about it that mentioned a to-be-named-script
<TheMuso> pwnguin: If you are running gutsy, install ubuntu-dev-tools
<pwnguin> i did
<pwnguin> its there and done
<nixternal> yes, update-maintainer is nice
<nixternal> saves the typing for us lazy people
<pwnguin> its not particularly clear in the manpage -- does dh_installudev change the name to .rules or not?
<pwnguin> nixternal: also for the typo prone
<nixternal> and that as well, which is me most definitely
<TheMuso> pwnguin: This is how I did it for another package I work on: dh_installudev --priority=80
<TheMuso> changing priority to whatever you need.
<pwnguin> well, it mentions package.udev
<pwnguin> in the manpage
<TheMuso> Yes, so you put the file in debian and name it packagename.udev
<pwnguin> what i wasnt clear on is whether it changes the filename or not
<TheMuso> Yes it does.
<pwnguin> TheMuso: thanks.
<pwnguin> hmm. some of these rules have no priority
<RAOF> Thinking back to the stuff I did with KVM, wasn't there a bug on the BTS saying essentially "please don't use dh_installudev"?
<TheMuso> RAOF: There was?
<pwnguin> cute
<pwnguin> this is gonna get nightmare-ish when i work on thinkfinger
<pwnguin> pam and udev =/
<pwnguin> and their mailing list features patches to gnome-screensvaer
<RAOF> Debian bug #414331
<ubotu> Debian bug 414331 in kvm "must not install udev rules files" [Normal,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/414331
<RAOF> "dh_installudev is badly broken and must not be used" :(
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Are the udev rules run rules?
<pwnguin> nope
<pwnguin> fun
<TheMuso> RAOF: Interesting. I do know for a fact that the Ubuntu debhelper has changes made to installudev
<RAOF> Ok, maybe it doesn't apply to us then.
* RAOF crosses his fingers.
<TheMuso> Well I've used it in a package with no problems.
<TheMuso> RAOF: And that was from March. Surely its been fixed since then.
<pwnguin> maybe the dude's just wrong?
<TheMuso> I can understand what they are saying re adding all rules to udev if they aren't run rules.
<pwnguin> i cant
<pwnguin> how's that even work?
<pwnguin> udev installs every possible rule?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Basically, if the rules are for creating device nodes/setting permissions for devices, udev should have them as part of its package, so that they are there from the get go. If a package only needs udev rules to run a particular program if a device is present, then a package is welcome to make a rules file, as it is the only one that needs the rules.
<pwnguin> wouldn't that result in a ton of udev rules?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Where abouts?
<pwnguin> /etc/udev/rules.d/ seems like it would get pretty full
<TheMuso> Likely so, but thats not a problem.
<TheMuso> And permissions/device creation rules would be put into specific files where all that stuff goes anyway.
<TheMuso> Individual package rules would just go in their own package rules file.
<pwnguin> well, getting udev changed during a beta freeze IS a problem =/
<TheMuso> The amount of files wouldn't be a problem.
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Let me have a look at the rules.
<pwnguin> its marginally stupid
<pwnguin> but straight from the manpage
<pwnguin> i may have a second look at fuse
<TheMuso> Actually, such a rule shouldn't really go in this package.
<superm1> TheMuso, did you take care of ubuntu studio's tasks setup?
<TheMuso> superm1: No. Why?
<TheMuso> superm1: We had help from Colin with getting seeds ready. Canonical are doing disks for us.
<superm1> well i noticed that they are available in synaptic
<superm1> and i knew you were working with a lot of their packages
<TheMuso> superm1: As I said, Colin tweaked seeds for CD creation.
<superm1> so i was wondering what it took to make a task.  okay i'll poke colin after beta :)
<TheMuso> superm1: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.gutsy if you want to have a look.
<superm1> TheMuso, yeah i saw that, but i didn't make the connection as to how they show up as available tasks elsewhere
<TheMuso> pwnguin: After beta, I'd talk to keybuk about udev, and permission for uinput. There might be a good reason why they are how they are.
<pwnguin> grat
<pwnguin> great
<TheMuso> superm1: there is stuff at the top of the seed files with all that stuff.
<TheMuso> superm1: And theres likely a connection behind the scenes to attach that to the archive.
<superm1> right, but i mean which packages are in the archive that actually read that content
<superm1> exactly, thats the part i'm missing :)
<pwnguin> TheMuso: in that case, i'll have to think about why that rule breaks my fingerprint scanner (which also uses udev)
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> uses udev and uinput
<TheMuso> right
<bddebian> OK damnit, I want to go to bed but this syncpackage issue is pissing me off.  I can build packages, sign packages, etc with no problems.  But running pitti's syncpackage script is not finding my key???
<TheMuso> bddebian: Is the requestsync script you are using from the ubuntu-dev-tools package?
<bddebian> Dunno, I pulling it from people.u.c/
<bddebian> ~pitti/scripts/
<TheMuso> bddebian: Well install ubuntu-dev-tools, and try the requestsync script from that.
<TheMuso> as that is likely much more up to date.
<bddebian> Hrm, this is what pochu asked me to use
<bddebian> What's weird is that it picks up "Barry deFreese" but <> for the e-mail, even though I have DEBSIGN_KEYID set
<Hobbsee> bddebian: set DEBEMAIL
<bddebian> Same bullshit.  gpg: Skipped "Barry deFreese <>": secret key not available
<bddebian> #!@$%@$^
<StevenK> bddebian: Does your key have a comment on it?
<StevenK> Does gpg --list-keys match exactly what's in the changelog?
<bddebian> I don't know what's in the changelog, it's some damn script.  Which is exactly why I never use them :-)
<pwnguin> is it just me, or does maximize window in desktop effects count the window shadow?
<bddebian> Bah screw it, I'm going to bed.  Thanks anyway TheMuso, Hobbsee, StevenK
<LaserJock> I'm looking for people who maintain a 3rd party repo/PPA
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: I have a PPA, not that it really needs (or accomodates) maintenance at this point - don't we all pretty much now?
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to figure out how people are handling reverse dependencies
<LaserJock> I'm wanting to maintain some backports
<tonyyarusso> can you be more specific?
<LaserJock> well, I want to backport the newest gchemutils
<LaserJock> but if I take care of the reverse dependencies all the way down it get like 15 packages
<tonyyarusso> As I understand it, that's pretty much how the backporting life goes.
<LaserJock> right, I'm just wondering how much effort people go to
<tonyyarusso> depends how much you want the package ;)
<tonyyarusso> The backports team will do it as long as it doesn't break stuff, etc
<LaserJock> well, the backports team isn't going to take these packages
<LaserJock> they haven't even made it to gutsy
<LaserJock> and a few are libraries
<LaserJock> hence why I'm looking at using a PPA
<tonyyarusso> set aside a few hours, bundle up some good snacks, and hack away?
<LaserJock> few days I'm guessing :/
<tonyyarusso> :(
<LaserJock> especially for dapper
<LaserJock> I especially don't look forward to rebuilding gnumeric
<jussi01> good morning all. Could someone remind me of the naming convention for ppa packages?
<tonyyarusso> jussi01: I didn't think we'd agreed on one yet...could be wrong
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: oh, ok. I remember there being talk about it
<tonyyarusso> jussi01: Yeah.  We _should_, not sure if we have yet.
<jussi01> :)
<tonyyarusso> I'm thinking package-0.5.4-1ubuntu2~ppa7.04-3, if you can have multiple dashes
<tonyyarusso> otherwise, ~7.04ppa3
<YokoZar_> ScottK: ping
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: I had a feeling it was jus ~ppa##
<tonyyarusso> jussi01: That's common, but provides no means for building for more than one release in the same PPA
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: thats true
<minghua> Yay for auto rebuild test!
<Fujitsu> minghua: Only main, isn't it?
<minghua> Fujitsu: Seems so.
<Fujitsu> :(
* minghua fears there would be too many FTBFS bugs to fix in time anyway if we also do auto build test on universe.
<TheMuso> Universe would take too long.
<Fujitsu> Well, there is a list, thanks to lucas.
<minghua> Did lucas use auotpkgtest or just pbuilder?
<Fujitsu> pbuilder or sbuild with rebuildd.
<minghua> all the three FTBFS bugs found by Ian's autopkgtest doesn't appear in pbuilder.
<minghua> (some trivial problem that requires clean to be run before build)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
(marseillai/#ubuntu-motu) TheMuso: i've send a complete version of itest to revu if you want to look at it : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=280
<TheMuso> marseillai: I will in a while.
<marseillai> TheMuso: oki thanks
<marseillai> TheMuso: for yesterday, the wrapper deleted
<marseillai> it was because his name was the same than the .deb package
<TheMuso> marseillai: Ok.
<asisak> Good mornign
<TheMuso> Hey asisak
<asisak> hey thekorn
<asisak> TheMuso even
<TheMuso> heh
<geser> Hi asisak
<asisak> Hey geser
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-15
<nellery> I'm attempting to upgrade mouseemu from 0.15 to 0.16, but a build error tells me that applying one of the patch's fails
<nellery> and it looks like it's because the pathname hasn't been updated
<nellery> http://paste.ubuntu.com/47017/
<nellery> but simply changing line 10 to 'mouseemu-0.16' doesn't work out
<nellery> any ideas?
<RAOF> That's not going to be the problem; dpatch will apply that patch with -p1, stripping out the first component.
<RAOF> I'd check out the rejects of the patch; chances are, that patch no longer applies because 0.16 has the same change in it.
<nellery> RAOF, so should deleting it be sufficient?
<RAOF> I don't know.  You'll need to see why it doesn't apply, and make a decision.
<compengi> could anyone help me packaging pidgin from source to .deb package?
<nellery> RAOF, ah, ok thanks
<RAOF> If it doesn't apply because the fix has been applied upstream, drop the patch.
<RAOF> If it doesn't apply, but the bug it fixes is still there, you'll need to rework the patch.
<nellery> RAOF, ok, thanks a lot!
<compengi> i first ran dh_make -m -c gpl then edited changelog, control, copyright and checked rules. anything else needs to be done?
<directhex> compengi, generally, if a package already exists for something, use that source package as a basis for updates - don't reinvent the wheel
<directhex> compengi, "uupdate" is a script which tries to update an existing debianised package against a new orig.tar.gz
<compengi> directhex, erm.. i'm trying to build it from scratch. because i want to learn how to. that's why i was trying to ask for someone that did it before :)
<directhex> compengi, well in theory you've done enough. in practice, pidgin is a difficult package, and diff.gz is over 200k when uncompressed
<directhex> split libs/executables, lots of preinst & postinst cleanup, and so on
<directhex> anyway, bedtime
<compengi> directhex, okay directhex good night. and btw have you done pidgin packaging before?
<nellery> when upgrading packages, do you just submit a debdiff of the old and new version .dsc files?
<james_w> nellery: hi, submit the new .diff.gz along with a pointer to how to get the new upstream tarball
<nellery> james_w, thanks, so inside that .diff.gz should be the .diff?
<james_w> nellery: the .diff.gz is one part of the source package
<james_w> a source package consists of the .dsc, the .diff.gz and the .orig.tar.gz
<nxvl> nellery: use revu
<james_w> the last is the upstream code, the second is the diff that adds debian/* and any other changes, and the first ties it all together
<nxvl> nellery: revu.ubuntuwire.com
<nellery> revu is used for upgrading a package?
<nxvl> nellery: so you can upload the whole source package
<nxvl> nellery: i used to use it
<nxvl> nellery: and then put the link of the revu package in the LP bug
<nellery> nxvl, ok thanks a lot
<ethana2> http://lmedinas.livejournal.com/9117.html  ---I'd like to see the packaging status of this and maybe observe the process closely
<ethana2> ...It would be cool to be able to package stuff a bit i think--  there's another package in repos that has a bad dependency
<ethana2> --checkinstall seems to be broken on my machine, i'm wondering what you guys usually use
<RAOF> ethana2: checkinstall, the eternal foe :)
<ethana2> that doesn't sound encouraging
<ethana2> i think it's unethical to go from source -> installed code, generally speaking ;)
<RAOF> We tend to just update the source package.
<ethana2> if everyone made packages instead, the world would be a better place
<ethana2> RAOF: how do you mean that?
<RAOF> ethana2: Well, the source package is basically upstream tarball + debian metadata (possibly including patches).  Mostly it's easy to update the metadata and stick it on the new upstream tarball.
<ethana2> ..then an automated system compiles and pushes out the update?
<RAOF> ethana2: Is there a bug filed about that new release?  It looks like it could be worth a FFe, or may even not require one.
<ethana2> i figure it's a shoe in
<ethana2> bugfix only
<ethana2> ...and those are some bugs /i/ wouldn't want to run into, and with what i do, it's likely that i would
<ethana2> ..maybe i have; in any case, i'd feel a lot better with 0.82
<RAOF> I'd file an upgrade bug on launchpad.  Bonus marks if you can list the launchpad bugs which are associated with each of the bugs fixed in the new version.
<ethana2> oh, so they're automatically closed?
 * ethana2 begins
<RAOF> That, and so it's obvious that there's a real need to do the update.
<ethana2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/270315
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270315 in brasero "upgrade to new upstream 0.8.2 bugfix only release" [Undecided,New]
<ethana2> oh wait, those bug numbers are from their trac or whatever
<ethana2> So those closed bugs aren't good enough, you have to see them reported /by ubuntu users/?
<RAOF> Ideally, yes.
<ethana2> hrm
<RAOF> You'd want to browse through https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bugs and work out which ones are fixed by this version.
<ethana2> yeah i am
<ethana2> seeing a lot of 'fix committed' ones
<RAOF> It looks like all the ones marked 'fix committed' will be fixed, yeah.
<ethana2> ....sounds like those should all warrant the upgrade
<RAOF> I'd therefore guess that the desktop team will be all over the new release.
<ethana2> ..should I just leave it to them then?
<RAOF> I think so, yes.  You might want to keep an eye on it, but I'd be confident the desktop team will get to it quickly.
<ethana2> well, i filed the upgrade bug, so...
<ethana2> maybe i helped something
<RAOF> I think we're in alpha 6 freeze, so it'll probably be after that, though.
<ethana2> four days....
<ethana2> RAOF: Is intrepid going to use the Dust theme?
 * RAOF has exactly as much information on that front as you.
<ethana2> I see
<ethana2> by the way, ubuntu netbook is amazing
<ethana2> i'm using everything but ume-loader on my ubuntu desktop install
<mssever> I'm trying to make my first package, and I'm having difficulty. The details are here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5790152#post5790152    What am I doing wrong? Or is this question off-topic here?
<vorian> mssever: looks like the package built fine
<mssever> But all it installs are directories, not files
<vorian> you may need to add a sysres.install file in your debian dir
<mssever> vorian: Where can I find documentation on that? My trouble is that there's lots of documentation, but I can't seem to be able to figure out how to use it effectively, or know what's relevant to my situation
<vorian> hmmm
<mssever> vorian: Debian packaging seems overcomplicated for handling simple Python programs. But that probably means I'm missing something. I just need to drop files in directories. That's all.
<vorian> oh
<vorian> you may want to check this out first if it's python http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<mssever> vorian: Thanks. I'll check that out. That link didn't show up in my Google searches
<vorian> no problem
<vorian> as for the .install file, you can see some good examples in kdebase (intrepid)
<vorian> just pull the source and look at the .intall files
<vorian> it's a complex package, but it has many .install files to view
<mssever> vorian: Thanks. Also, are there some good simple examples in Python (or some other interpreted language that doesn't need to be built)?
<vorian> sure :)
<vorian> chm2pdf is one of my favorites
<vorian> although i didn't put an install file in it
<vorian> it didn't need one
<mssever> vorian: OK. I'll take a look at it.
<vorian> cool
<vorian> you can email/msg me with any questions you have
<vorian> or ask any of these fine folks
<mssever> Great. I'm busy reading now... :)
<mssever> vorian: apt-get source chm2pdf says it can't find a source package for chm2pdf. What's the source package called (or how can I find that myself)?
<vorian> are you in hardy or intrepid?
<vorian> either should pull it
<mssever> hardy
<vorian> weird
<vorian> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/chm2pdf
<mssever> I can see the binary package, but not the source package
<mssever> Thanks
<vorian> click on the dsc link, and copy the url
<vorian> then you can use 'dget url' to get the source
<vorian> which would be http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/chm2pdf/chm2pdf_0.9-0ubuntu1.dsc
<mssever> what's the command to uncompress it like apt-get source does?
<StevenK> dpkg-source -x
<porthose> dget -x
<mssever> Thanks
<StevenK> dget will download it and relevant files, dpkg-source is if the source is local.
<mssever> OK, I have it extracted now, and I'm looking it over. Thanks for all the help
<vorian> doh, -x
<nellery> anyone have an idea as to why I get this error when attempting to build this package?
<nellery> http://paste.ubuntu.com/47064/
<TheMuso> nellery: You need to add packages that your package build depends on to the Build-Depends field in debian/control.
<TheMuso> So by the looks of it, there are several packages that the configure script didn't find when attempting to build your package.
<nellery> TheMuso, I see, so it's just the ones that appear there?
<TheMuso> nellery: Without knowing what you are trying to build, I can't really help much more than that.
<nellery> that's fine, I'll try and figure it out myself
<TheMuso> nellery: There maybe more, you should check the package documentation to find out what is needed to build the package.
<nellery> thanks!
<nellery> ok
<TheMuso> nellery: You're welcome.
<\sh> james_w: when are you planning to update launchpadlib package to 0.2 from bzr? so we get the httplib2 UVE done, too...(bug #239734)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239734 in python-httplib2 "[Freeze Exception] python-httplib2 should be upgraded to 0.4.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239734
<james_w> \sh: I hadn't decided if I was going to push it. Thanks for working on httplib2 though
<\sh> james_w: I think we should talk to barry it would be good to have lplib in intrepid in its bzr version now
<iulian> Good morning.
<huats> morningh everyone
<iulian> 'ey
<zorglu_> q. i would like to get vlc 0.9.2 on 8.04. vlc teams doesnt support 8.04 only 8.10. is there a chance to get it backported to 8.04 ?
<directhex> does it build on 8.04 unmodified?
<zorglu_> directhex: it did not so long ago. vlc was doing a 8.04 build every night on nighly.videolan.org like 1months ago
<zorglu_> directhex: they dropped support on 8.04 for unknown reason but very unlikely to be incompatible
<directhex> have you tried it?
<zorglu_> directhex: nope. i dont have time
<zorglu_> directhex: they got 8.10 in nighly support tho
<jimqode> Hello. I'm trying to follow the fixingbugs1 meeting at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0809/FixingBugs1 . I want to test the latest package to see if the bug is still there. I tried to use pbuilder build to build a package to install but i couldn't find the package file it made. How do I build and test a dsc file?
<zorglu_> http://nightlies.videolan.org/build/ <- directhex
<directhex> well that's nice & all, but if it's on THEIR server, you need to ask THEM why they're not building it
<zorglu_> directhex: "8.04 is for losers" is the official reason
<zorglu_> hence i wondered if ubuntu motu was planning to do the backport
<directhex> they won't backport someone else's packages, not officially. if there's a newer version IN UBUNTU, then it can be looked at
<zorglu_> hmm it is fair to say that vlc 0.9.2 will not reach 8.04 for at least 6months then ?
<zorglu_> directhex: i got my servers on 8.04 so i look for solutions
<directhex> servers which need videolan client? O_o
<zorglu_> yes.
<zorglu_> directhex: my only current alternative is to run VMs with 8.10 on those boxes and install vlc in the VM. do you see a better one ?
<james_w> jimqode: if you build using pbuilder then I think the built packages end up in /var/cache/pbuilder
<jimqode> james_w, hmmm. thank you
<directhex> zorglu_, you could have tried debuild in the time you've been asking, you know
<zorglu_> directhex: nope. im not a packager. so i would have to learn how to do it in the process
<zorglu_> directhex: in anycase i dont wanna fight. i just want to see if i can get vlc on 8.04. the 8.10 VM is possibility
<directhex> zorglu_, that's the thing. some apps "just work" if you take the 8.10 source package and build it on 8.04. no changes. that's the kind of thing that can easily be added to ubuntu-backports
<zorglu_> hmm ok
<zorglu_> so no plan to backport
<directhex> if the package cannot "just" build, then there's a problem - it means added developer effort to keep several versions going
<zorglu_> directhex: is there a way for me to stay uptodate on this matter ?
<directhex> you could file a wishlist bug on launchpad
<zorglu_> directhex: doing a script which check backport repo ?
<directhex> or subscribe to the source package
<zorglu_> directhex: ok thanks
<zorglu_> i will do the 8.10 VM stuff meanwhile
<directhex> infact, someone already did. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/270404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Undecided,New]
<zorglu_> cool :)
<ma10> zorglu_: sorry i just logged in in the middle of the conversation, where is the 8.10 package you're talking about?
<zorglu_> ma10: videolan nightly. let me find the link
<directhex> ma10, he wants backports. since the videolan team make intrepid nightly debs.
<zorglu_> http://nightlies.videolan.org/ and http://nightlies.videolan.org/build/intrepid-i386/
<directhex> zorglu_, but please remember, as i said, those are NOT ubuntu debs. they're not in, made by, or supported by, anyone at ubuntu. the packages may be of suspect quality or vintage. that's why updating in ubuntu isn't trivial - we can't just take their packages
<ma10> zorglu_: thanks
<zorglu_> directhex: i understand. on the other hand, the fact videolan team makes them shows that it is not that hard to make :)
<directhex> no diff.gz? s/may be/are/
<directhex> zorglu_, any idiot can run "alien" on an rpm. doesn't make it a reliable package
<zorglu_> directhex: ok
<zorglu_> ma10: if you are doing the package, you can ask j-b on #videolan he is handling the release
<ma10> zorglu_: i don't know, if i do there's nowhere to upload it until the jaunty repositories are created. btw, when is that going to happen?
<zorglu_> ma10: several people will be interested in this i think. where to upload it ? what about ppa ? meanwhile people could get it there and thus people considering putting it into backport or not could use user feedback. how does it sound ?
<zorglu_> ma10: 8
<zorglu_> ma10: 8.04 is a LTS after all :)
<ma10> zorglu_: yes that's probably what's going to happen. :) i think several ppa versions will pop up. i'll start working on mine.
<zorglu_> ma10: cool :)
<jimqode> Could somebody please check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/editline/+bug/256179 for anything I might have done wrong? I just uploaded a debdiff and applied for sponsorship. This is my first time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256179 in editline "libeditline does not support home/end/delete keys" [Undecided,In progress]
<james_w> does anyone have a Debian testing system around?
<james_w> a chroot would work.
<james_w> I'd like someone to test something in that environment, as it is claimed a bug is fixed, but I'm not sure
<ma10> jimqode: i just gave it a quick look. the thing i noticed is that you forgot to update the Maintainer field in debian/control.
<liw> james_w, I have a kvm instance, but I need to boot it up... what do you need?
<james_w> liw: a little bit of ruby please
<james_w> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=487204
<ubottu> Debian bug 487204 in ruby1.8 "ruby1.8: object allocation during garbage collection phase" [Important,Closed]
<james_w> I'd like to know if the script in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=487204#25 still fails with libcairo-ruby 1.5.1-1+lenny1
<james_w> rebuilding on Intrepid and testing suggests that it doesn't fix it
<liw> james_w, ok, I'll get back to you in a few minutes after my kvm machine is up
<james_w> liw: thanks a lot
<liw> james_w, ok, ysabel is up -- I don't know Ruby at all, which packages should I install?
<james_w> just libcairo-ruby I think
<liw> changing the hashbang to say ruby1.8 instead of just ruby
<liw> running now, got to 153500
<james_w> ok, I think it's fixed then, thanks
<james_w> it seems we can't just sync that
<liw> can I kill it?
<james_w> sure
<liw> interestingly, it got slower once it got to about 100 to 150 thousand... the first second or two got that far, now it's only gotten to 181800
<james_w> hmm, did you have to fix up the script before you ran it?
<james_w> no, I'm doing something wrong
<liw> hm, I killed it with control-c, and it's still dying, and now it said Segmentation fault
<liw> ***************** 181800 *********
<liw> ^C./test.rb:8: Interrupt
<liw> ./test.rb:8: [BUG] Segmentation fault
<liw> ruby 1.8.7 (2008-08-11 patchlevel 72) [x86_64-linux]
<jimqode> ma10, what should I update it to? My name? This was an ubuntu package to start with.
 * james_w smacks his forehead
<james_w> make sure you install all the binary packages for the thing you are testing.
<NCommander> morning james_w
<james_w> hey NCommander
<NCommander> how goes it?
<james_w> pretty good thanks, you?
<NCommander> james_w: trying to fix my laptop
<NCommander> FIrefox likes to freeze every ten seconds
<wgrant> NCommander: Maybe it's Firefox Genuine Advantage kicking in its irritants.
<directhex> but i already entered my firefox license key!
<directhex> NCommander, i eagerly await a chromium-based browser for linux, given the 1-process-per-page thing should kill browser slowdown dead
<NCommander> wgrant: :-)
<jorgenpt> Yeah. (:
<jorgenpt> And browser hangs. <3
<jorgenpt> First time I saw 'flash' having it's own process in Chrome's process explorer, and I could just "kill" it and all the flash on the page went away, I almost cried in joy.
<ma10> jimqode: it was a debian package, you're releasing the first ubuntu version. control should look like:
<ma10> jimqode: Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<ma10> jimqode: XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Captain Packager <packager@coolness.com>
<ma10> jimqode: (with the name of the debian maintainer of course)
<directhex> yay, ubuntu packages. because pushing changes to debian is poopy!
 * wgrant shoots directhex.
<ma10> jimqode: also, update Standards-Version while you're at it, or lintian might complain.
<james_w> anyone a fan of ruby?
<dholbach> ma10: we don't need to update Standards-Version in packages that we inherit from Debian, it's a string-change that gains us nothing and we need to merge again, also it's something the package maintainer in debian should do (after consulting the debian policy and see if the package really complies with the specified version of d-p)
<dholbach> I think that cjwatson wrote something about it recently
<ma10> dholbach: didn't know, thanks
<ScottK> james_w: apachelogger is a fan of Ruby, I believe.
<iulian> james_w: You might want to try #debian-ruby on oftc.
<james_w> iulian: I'd love to, but they've already fixed it
<dholbach> +  * Recommend that Standards-Version not be adjusted for Ubuntu revisions of
<dholbach> +    this manual, and in general that Standards-Version should not be changed
<dholbach> +    in Ubuntu for packages originating in Debian.
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/ubuntu.diff
<dholbach> ma10: anytime
<james_w> we need a fix for http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=487204, and I can't find the targeted patch, and I'm not sure whether updating to the new upstream is the right thing to do
<ubottu> Debian bug 487204 in ruby1.8 "ruby1.8: object allocation during garbage collection phase" [Important,Closed]
<jimqode> ma10, dholbach, thanks for your help. I'll update it now
<dholbach> james_w: lucas filed a sync bug for ruby 1.8
<james_w> dholbach: hmm, odd, the bug isn't against ruby
<james_w> ah, my fault: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=485738
<ubottu> Debian bug 485738 in ruby1.8 "ruby1.8: object allocation during garbage collection phase" [Important,Closed]
<dholbach> ma10: don't worry - I did the mistake myself when I got started (I looked at my first uploads on hoary-changes a few weeks ago) :-)
<james_w> hmm
<dholbach> bug 270389
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270389 in ruby1.8 "Please sync ruby1.8 1.8.7.72-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270389
<james_w> ubottu: you are wrong!
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about you are wrong!
<james_w> well, you are
<sbucat> hi sorry if i ask here , but i have made a simple video analyzer with ffmpeg and awk can someone build a package ?--------->http://www.cli-apps.org/content/show.php?content=89259
<lucas> james_w: dholbach: FWIW, I could convince the debian release team to let the new upstream release migrate to lenny last week
<lucas> james_w: dholbach: and ruby-defaults just contains dummy packages that point to ruby1.8's binary packages at the moment. since we also have ruby1.9, all security bugs are usually duplicated for ruby1.8 and ruby1.9.
 * apachelogger notes that james_w is quite hard on teh poor bot :S
<ScottK-laptop> Off the top of my head, if it got into Lenny I'd be really suprised we don't want it for Intrepid.
<james_w> lucas: yeah, it doesn't look too bad, the mention of perhaps having to update dependent code due to libxml->xml namespace change is a bit worrying
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: I think we definitely want the bug fixed
<lucas> james_w: which namespace change is that? (link?)
<james_w> == 0.8.2 / 2008-07-21 Charlie Savage
<james_w> * To use LibXML you can either require 'xml' or require 'libxml'.
<james_w>   The differences is that require 'xml' mixes the LibXML module into
<james_w>   the global namespace, thereby allowing you to write code such
<james_w>   as document = XML::Document.new.  Note that this is different
<james_w>   from 0.8.0 and 0.8.1 and may require updating your code.
<sbucat> devfil: hi
<devfil> hi sbucat
<devfil> sbucat: what are you doing here? :)
<sbucat> devfil: heheh i need of some motu for this :D hahahhttp://www.cli-apps.org/content/show.php?content=89259
<lucas> james_w: err, that's not a ruby1.8 change, right? I don't think that we are talking about the same thing here
<devfil> sbucat: actually Ubuntu is on feature freeze, so for new packages a FFe is needed
<james_w> lucas: no, I'm talking about the fix for http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=485738
<ubottu> Debian bug 485738 in ruby1.8 "ruby1.8: object allocation during garbage collection phase" [Important,Closed]
<james_w> lucas: which was fixed in Debian with the update to the new upstream release
<devfil> sbucat: for more inf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze%20for%20new%20packages
<broonie>  24
<lucas> james_w: I don't have an opinion on that one. note that libxml-ruby is a relatively unimportant lib. (most ruby users use rexml)
<james_w> yeah, I just saw that there are no rdepends
<james_w> except libxslt-ruby, which has none
<bddebian> Heya gang
<james_w> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi james_w
<iulian> Hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<james_w> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ looks a bit out of date, is this normal?
<jimqode> http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/no_attention is linked on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Bugs but it does not work. It spits out the python source for the server side code
<dholbach> lucas: right... if that's the case the ubuntu-release team should ACK it pretty quickly
<james_w> jimqode: hi, I don't see that, are you on hardy?
<jimqode> james_w, yes I'm on hardy. What difference does it make?
<james_w> jimqode: my guess is that python-launchpad-bugs is broken on hardy
<jimqode> james_w, oops was it meant to run at my computer. *blushes*
<jimqode> it thought it was server side code that failed to run
<james_w> ah :-)
<jimqode> sorry, sorry, sorry :)
<dholbach> soren, nixternal, geser: just in case you're wondering: NCommander has the nexenta-ACCEPTED-mails situation under control now :-)
 * NCommander whisles
<NCommander> dholbach: I never got those accept emails in my inbox, were they filtered out by the mailserver?
<dholbach> NCommander: they were in the ubuntu-motu moderation queue
<NCommander> dholbach: again, sorry about that :-/
<dholbach> NCommander: don't worry - it's been just 4 mails right now :)
<dholbach> we get much more spam every day that lands in the queue
<NCommander> Its probably going to be a few more, the dak server had a pretty large backlog :-P
<dholbach> NCommander: np, I'll send you the bill
<dholbach> ;-)
 * NCommander will add a redirect of dholbach@ubuntu.com -> *somewhere*
<jdong> have people started screaming for VLC yet?
<jdong> yup bug 270404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270404
<jdong> wgrant: you last-touched; any thoughts on this big scary update? I'm afraid if we don't do it we won't hear the end of it.
<nxvl> dholbach: can i congratulate NCommander now?
<NCommander> on what?
<nxvl> NCommander: uuc
<dholbach> nxvl: I think you can - I'll process the application in a sec
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> NCommander: congrats
<dholbach> nxvl: hold your horses - just a (few) minute(s) :-)
<NCommander> \o/!
<NCommander> d'oh
<nxvl> :(
 * NCommander looks forward to the day he can get MOTU
<NCommander> I apply at the end of September :-)
<nxvl> \o/
<dholbach> NCommander: congratulations :-)
<dholbach> nxvl: now you can :)
<NCommander> ahaha
<NCommander> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<dholbach> it just took a bit to get all the references to the application from the mailing list, the mail written etc
<NCommander> ANother icon for Bragging rights
<NCommander> At the rate I'm going, I'm going to need a linebreak :-/
<dholbach> so that's what it's all about
<nxvl> NCommander: welcome to the team
 * NCommander was already an Ubuntu member, UUC wasn't a huge upgrade
<NCommander> At least my posts to -devel are no longer moderated I think
<nxvl> dholbach: there were a LOT of references to catch on that mail
<NCommander> 16 I think
<dholbach> nxvl: exactement
<NCommander> dholbach: I'm told thats an unusually high number
<NCommander> dholbach: don't worry, you get the fun of doing it again for MOTU soon :-)
<nxvl> dholbach: i was checking the 5-a-day code the other day and i started wondering, now it works using only the LP login?
<dholbach> nxvl:     bzr launchpad-login
<dholbach> nxvl: to me it didn't seem to make sense to write your lp login to yet another file :)
<geser> dholbach: re the last mc minutes: I didn't know that nixternal and you count double :)
<dholbach> geser: it was 11:18 here and it seems I still didn't have enough coffee
<nxvl_> sorry i unpluged my laptop and forget i took the battery out
<nxvl_> :D
<mok0>  ogra ping
<nxvl_> dholbach: agreed on that, just making sure i catch it correctly
<ogra> mok0,
<ogra> pong
<james_w> NCommander: then nexenta ACCEPTED mail went to all maintainers, not just MOTU?
<NCommander> james_w: unfortantely
<NCommander> The problem was our mailserver was not sending emails
<NCommander> And I didn't realize dak was misconfigured
<NCommander> The mail admin just fixed the former and ran the queue -_-;
<james_w> perhaps a mail to debian-devel explaining the situation would help?
<NCommander> yeah
<james_w> guessing that it was more than just a couple of mails
<dholbach> MOTU got just 4 up until now
<NCommander> Well, the flame mail from DDs is pouring in now
<NCommander> :-)
<cody-somerville> NCommander, really? :P
<cody-somerville> lol
<NCommander> Man, when I screw up, I screw up big
<geser> NCommander: you now know which DDs read there mails timely :)
 * dholbach bears that in mind for NCommander's MOTU application :-)
<NCommander> THanks dholbach :-P
<nxvl> NCommander: which DDs mail?
<NCommander> nxvl: not sure, its going to the changes mailing list which I haven't been subscribed to
<nxvl> NCommander: ubuntu changes or debian changes?
<NCommander> nexenta-changes
<nxvl> :D
<handschuh> hi, when will the next revu-day will be? (just asking)
<nxvl> handschuh: in November maybe
<nxvl> handschuh: archive are closed for new packages until jaunty
<handschuh> nxvl: ok thanks
<broonie> NCommander: You've definitely been hitting DDs. :)
<NCommander> ****
<nxvl> dholbach: today in the new release of the PC World there are 2 packages about me and motuship, i hope it helps to get more people involved :D
<nxvl> (the peruvian version of PC World btw)
<dholbach> nxvl: NICE - do you have an online version of it somewhere?
<nxvl> dholbach: mmm, not sure, let me check, but it's in spanish
<dholbach> nxvl: nevermind it's in spanish :)
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> i though so
<nxvl> dholbach: there were some minimal inaccuracies from the reporter, but still get my bits saying that it's easy and that people are invited to participate :D
<cody-somerville> NCommander, Isn't there a big fat warning in dak about this? :P
<ScottK-laptop> Apparently neither big, nor fat, enough.
<handschuh> dholbach: (sry for interruption) thanks for the motu-videos
<broonie> With current versions of dak you explicitly need to configure it to mail people.
<dholbach> handschuh: I'm glad you find them useful. :-)
<nxvl> dholbach: talking about videos, nellery (my mentee) jumped it after the videos, and he was not bad at all
<dholbach> nxvl: woah, great :-)
<nxvl> dholbach: so we can start calling them a success
<dholbach> :-D
<nxvl> s/it/in
 * nxvl give dholbach a big thank you HUG
<nxvl> gives*
 * dholbach hugs nxvl back :-)))
<dholbach> great
<gaspa> dholbach: registered a merge for harverst-data.
<dholbach> gaspa: I'll take a look at it in a bit
<gaspa> as you need, don't haste.
 * dholbach hugs gaspa :)
 * gaspa hugs dholbach back. :)
 * nxvl predicts an update of the flash hug at mountainview
<nxvl> ogra: ^^^
<nxvl> dholbach: we aware...
<nxvl> :P
<ogra> nxvl, we could make it a tradition :)
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: You could make a historical retrospective without affecting future suprises.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: right
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: You could also make a Launchpad team, get a mail list, and conspire there.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> we have an LP team
<nxvl> https://edge.launchpad.net/~dholbach-huggers
<cody-somerville> ScottK-laptop, ping
<ScottK-laptop> cody-somerville: Pong
 * ScottK-laptop notes that hppa is almost caught up building stuff.  This is a clear sign people should be uploading more.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: how does VLC 0.9.1 crack sound?
<jdong> (kidding. maybe.)
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: That's some gtk thing, so, whatever.
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Actually, given the security history with VLC, I'm thinking we probably do what to ship something they'll be updating, but I'm not sure.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: it's a QT thing now.
<ScottK-laptop> It is?
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: I'll have to look into what the heck needs to change with the packaging
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: the frontend is rewritten in QT4
<ScottK-laptop> Interesting.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: otherwise updating it would be a no-brainer
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: but at this point IMO it's still in our best interest to update, just it might be some work involved
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I think looking into it is a good plan.
<jdong> yeah I'm in class right now and have a busy early week, but if I have spare time I'll also look into this
<jdong> upstream has "nightly builds" that mostly pbuilder okay in Intrepid, might be worth looking at a debdiff of that
<jdong> i.e. http://nightlies.videolan.org/build/intrepid-i386/latest/
<jdong> I have no idea the packaging quality but I am betting it's not that useful for us.
<ScottK-laptop> Without looking I'd give odds you're right.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: it looks to be a natively debianized source which worries me.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: would be nice to work with upstream to share packaging efforts, as their nightly service tends to be popular with media geeks
<ScottK-laptop> What did you expect?
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: They might be happy to get patches.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: indeed. Let's proceed with some PPA packages in ~motumedia and proceed from there...
<slytherin> NCommander: congrats
<stdin> RainCT: hey, recently I took another look at dgetlp and thought "Hmm, this would probably work better in python". so I rewrote it (again)
<stdin> what do you think: http://pastebin.com/f1a78df61
<jdong> interesting... prevu has a built-in more hackish variant :)
<jdong> looks like http://paste.ubuntu.com/47195/
<jdong> maybe I'll replace that nastiness with dgetlp if things work out
<ScottK-laptop> Note that dgetlp is only needed for PPA packages.
<ScottK-laptop> Regular distro packages have url's that dget can use.
<slytherin> Does anyone know for sure if latest gstreamer pre-release will be packaged before beta freeze?
<RainCT> stdin: Great! (There's a typo ("hostead") in the Usage string and another one ("attatch") in the try/except at the end)
<stdin> stupid power-cut :|
<RainCT> >> stdin: Great! (There's a typo ("hostead") in the Usage string and another one ("attatch") in the try/except at the end)
<stdin> ScottK-laptop: about dgetlp, it's not just for PPAs, it was actually written more with +queue in mind attach
<stdin> RainCT: http://pastebin.com/f10cdcbdd
<stdin> that should fix those
<ScottK-laptop> Ah, right.
<stdin> now it's in python it should be more robust, actually reading the .dsc instead of trying to guess the names/version of files to get
<james_w> emgent: hey, were you planning on merging ecl?
<james_w> stdin, meet python-debian, python-debian meet stdin, I think you two may get on
<james_w> stdin: it's got a class for parsing .dsc files that may simplify the script even more
<stdin> james_w: I only need to get the files out of the .dsc, not sure if I need anything "powerful". but I guess I should look at it ;)
<james_w> it's got some good stuff in it
<james_w> and if you write anything that may fit well there then please feel free to submit it for inclusion
<rawler> hey people.. have anyone here got experience of launchpad ppa?
<mok0> yeah
<rawler> for some reason, it rejects my uploads due to failed checksums.. I've verified them manually and they seems correct?
<mok0> you upload the _source.changes file?
<rawler> also relevant that I already have the package in question in launchpad ppa for intrepid, now back-porting to hardy, so I needed to change a dep..
<rawler> yes, the _source.changes.. :)
<mok0> rawler: I don't think I can help with that, try asking on #launchpad
<rawler> I will, thanks.. :)
<slytherin> persia: http://www.hadess.net/2008/09/living-on-edge.html :-(
<slytherin> wow vlc 0.9 is release finally :-)
<nxvl> james_w: i told you that you needed to apply for motuship, it looks like it will be a succes
<nxvl> :D
<sebner> slytherin: 0.9.2 :P hope to see it in intrepid :D
<sebner> james_w: \o/
<slytherin> sebner: I use totem :-)
<slytherin> but for my friends who use Windows, VLC is heaven
<sebner> slytherin: bah, gnome crunch t
<Laney> Is anyone working on the VLC update?
<sebner> Laney: well, I suppose they maybe want to merge it from Debian *when* Debian has it
<ScottK> Laney: jdong was discussing it earlier.
<Laney> sebner: Time is money!
<sebner> Laney: do you get paid for merging vlc ASAP? ^^
<sebner> huhu ScottK =)
<Laney> I get paid in joy by having a better Intrepid release ;)
<sebner> Laney: maybe you can get informations about upstart 0.5 then :P
<Laney> sebner: I think that's a bit above me :(
<sebner> Laney: np :)
<stdin> RainCT: "final" version, with spell-checking :) http://pastebin.com/f65c4172c
<superm1> is there a way to look at reverse build depends of a package?
<azeem> superm1: some grep-dctrl magic does that; there's no single command I believe
<superm1> yuck
<slytherin> superm1: reverse-build-depends from ubuntu-dev-tools
<superm1> yay
<superm1> okay so if i'm working on a virtualbox FFe, and the only thing that uses kbuild is virtualbox, do i need to file an FFe too for that still?
<superm1> i suppose i will just to be safe
<slytherin> superm1: If it is a release with new features, FFE is a must.
<slytherin> for bug fix only release you might be able to convince that FFE is not needed.
<superm1> they dont really have an upstream changelog, so i'm discerning through trac
<superm1> ah yeah there are a few features put into it
<laga_> they do have a changelog? a short one, tho
<superm1> the changelog in the package was discontinued
<superm1> and they said to go look at trac instead
<laga_> http://virtualbox.org/wiki/Changelog - although that's for the closed source version
<superm1> not virtualbox
<superm1> kbuild
<laga_> oh, sorry
<superm1> it's only rdepend and rbuild-depend is virtualbox however
<slytherin> superm1: any chance you could bribe someone to approve FF for bluez. It will be really nice to have 4.x in intrepid. :-D
<slytherin> s/FF/FFE
<superm1> i'm a bit doubtful since we're past UI freeze, and undoubtedly there are UI changes in the 4.x release?
<slytherin> superm1: Sure, but if Fedora 10 is going to ship it then it becomes prestige issue. :-P
<superm1> haha
<slytherin> superm1: I will see if I can create some test packages.
<cr3> I'm packaging a project which uses autotools, but I want to generate both a deb and a udeb. the problem is that I only want to install the binary in the udeb, so I have usr/bin/my_binary in the udeb.install file. however, the file is actually built in the deb's directory (debian/my-project) rather than the udeb's directory (debian/my-project-udeb).
<cr3> I thought that DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR := debian/tmp in the rules file might generate a single directory which could be shared by both the deb and the udeb, but no such luck
<cr3> so, what would be the right way to package both the deb and the udeb... preferably without having to ./configure && make && make install for each?
<james_w> hey cr3
<james_w> #ubuntu-installer probably has a higher density of people familiar with udebs
<cr3> james_w: hey dude! hm, I'm usually more annoying in #ubuntu-installer, I thought I would load balance my questions in other channels :)
<james_w> cr3: if you want it in both then you may need a "cp" call in debian/rules
<cr3> james_w: ouch! I looked at the netscat source package for inspiration, becaues I know it's available in the installer environment, but turns out it might not have a udeb because there's nothing under debian relating to udebs
 * cr3 does more exploration
<Laney> Good lord I'm getting a lot of skips and pops in my audio under load
<james_w> cr3: I just grabbed dhcp3 for the same reason
<james_w> cr3: but that doesn't use dh_install to install most of it's files
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Do I need a FFe for Bug #242572? All the bug and debdiff is previous to Freeze...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<cr3> james_w: evil! :)
<james_w> cr3: dmraid uses two ./configure steps by the look of it
<james_w> different options though
<james_w> same with cdebconf
<cr3> james_w: tzsetup seems like a simple package
<james_w> cr3: you may have to do something a bit ugly, as your case is a bit special
<james_w> cr3: you always knew you were special though, didn't you?
<james_w> tzsetup only has a udeb
<cr3> james_w: yeah, I'm special as in special olympics :(
<cr3> james_w: good point, that's why the debian files are so simple for tzsetup
<james_w> cr3: fontconfig
<james_w> cr3: it's cdbs, but it uses an install file, and uses debian/tmp/ as the source
<james_w> ah, you use cdbs
<cr3> james_w: cheers! that sounds less special and, yes, I use cdbs
<cr3> james_w: actually, I'm trying a simple hack in my install file right now. that might be easy as pie
<james_w> cr3: as well as DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR you may need to use a different DESTDIR
<LaserJock> ScottK: does a FFe only need 1 ack? I don't see it documented on the wiki page (just 2 acks are needed for standing FFes) so I'm assuming it's just 1
<sebner> DktrKranz: \o/
<DktrKranz> sebner, \o/
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's 2.
<geser> LaserJock: wasn't it 3 for standing FFe and 2 for normal FFe?
<LaserJock> geser: no
<LaserJock> geser: "Once a standing FFe is approved (2 motu-release acks)..."
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you please ack/approve Bug 260786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260786 in ubuntu "please sync openchange" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260786
<ScottK> DktrKranz: WIth sispoty's earlier +1 it may be OK, but just to be sure ...
<LaserJock> I can't find any reference to the number of needed acks other than ^^ on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<ScottK> LaserJock: Two is what we've been using.
<LaserJock> ok, cool. That's what I remembered it being but was uncertain because of the wiki page
<sebner> emgent: is your uploader list script b0rken?
<DktrKranz> sebner, lists.ubuntu.com is "b0rken"
<sebner> LaserJock: huhu :) I hope your studies are going well?
<sebner> DktrKranz: so, everything is b0rken? ^^
<geser> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-September/004648.html talks about 3 for standing FFe and 2 for normal FFe
<LaserJock> sebner: yeah, fairly well
<sebner> LaserJock: nice to hear :)
<LaserJock> geser: someone might want to then reflect that in the actual policy
<sebner> \o/ geser, our syncing hero :) (well, at least mine) :)
<DktrKranz> sebner, you have to manually download $distro-changes mailbox and hack it to open a file instead of fetching from the web (certificate issue)
<sebner> DktrKranz: ah nvm, I'm not that in reading ML. just MC list from time to time (webview)
<DktrKranz> ScottK, done
<ScottK> DktrKranz: THanks.
<jdong> Laney: hey you still there?
<Laney> jdong: hi
<jdong> Laney: saw your query on VLC; are you interested in packaging it or just inquiring if it'll be done?
<Laney> jdong: I'll have a go if nobody else does
<jdong> Laney: well I've got a busy afternoon ahead of me but I'll start taking a look at it later this evening to first understand what Ubuntu has changed with the package and then see what needs to be done to accomodate the new frontend
<Laney> jdong: OK. I might have an initial look if ghc ever gets done building
<jdong> Laney: ok, cool. I'll post any status updates on the bug report, if you'd like to do the same that should be good
 * Laney nods
<ScottK> Intresting.  PJ from Groklaw is commenting in the FF EULA bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/269656/comments/150
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269656 in firefox-3.0 "AN IRRELEVANT LICENSE IS PRESENTED TO YOU FREE-OF-CHARGE ON STARTUP" [High,Confirmed]
<sebner> ScottK: mozilla is evil :\
<NCommander> cody-somerville: you'd think there was such a warning
<ScottK> sebner: Evil is a strong word.
<ScottK> NCommander: Thanks for Samba4 and congratulations.
<sebner> ScottK: mozilla is no angel-like ... better?
<NCommander> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> sebner: Sure.
 * NCommander feels quite sick to his stomach ATM
<ScottK> Personally, I'm very uncomfortable that there are packages in the Main archive that I'm not allowed to change.
<sebner> ScottK: maybe we'll end like debian with iceweasel xD
<laga_> mozilla is hilariouis
<NCommander> ScottK: seconded
<NCommander> They're a joke at this point to me
<ScottK> Of course anyone that wants a default browser other than Firefox can switch to Kubuntu today.
<laga_> s/hilariouis/hilarious/
<sebner> ScottK: bah, no chance :P
<Robb_1> im not sure exactly who to send this request to..but i have a way of making things more secure.....i know that the login window has the way of hiding the input for the password screen...is there a way you could do this for gksu and gksudo?  I know sudo itself has it implemented.
<Robb_1> im not saying that i could actually implement this myself..but if someone could make this happen..it would be a great advancement in security.
<laga_> that's only more secure if your password consists of asterisks
<Robb_1> i dont think your getting it, the fact that login window has it and nothing else surprises me......
<Robb_1> peeking over your shoulder during login is only one part of the issue im seeing...i see a lot of users in my college (i have ubuntu implemented in a class) that have been watching the *su and *sudo window waiting to see just how long the other users passwords are.
<netzmeister> ad
<netzmeister> bah
<netzmeister> bad-boy86, sers :)
<bad-boy86> hehe abend Meister
<laga_> "sers"? now who says that? ;)
<netzmeister> laga_, german?
<laga_> sure
<netzmeister> laga_, "sers" is the small word for "servus" :D
<ati9700> juten tach
<wgrant> jdong: I wouldn't advise it until Debian has done it.
<wgrant> It is huge.
<wgrant> And it is late in the cycle.
<wgrant> Oh my god. The bug. Is huge.
<jdong> wgrant: I know it's a huge update, but I don't think we're in a better position just sitting around until we end up with a VLC support cycle or user backlash crisis on our hands.
<wgrant> jdong: Debian is going to have 0.8.6i in Lenny.
<jdong> wgrant: just in the past week, for example, I've talked to two independent users who need MT2S support for viewing their HD camcorder files
<wgrant> And we'd have more user backlash if we left it borked.
<jdong> and the only solution atm is VLC 0.9.x
<wgrant> We have < 1.5 months to get it perfect.
<wgrant> If you think it can be done, go ahead.
<wgrant> But I don't think it's a particularly good idea.
<jdong> wgrant: well I certainly want to test it externally in a PPA to see if there's any chance of it working. I understand the concern you have.
<Laney> We should certainly not push it until we're confident it's better than what we have
<jdong> whether or not we ship it as the Intrepid version, I'd still like to give Hardy and Intrepid users some reasonably safe way of using this new VLC release
<jdong> the demand for it will be high
<wgrant> It will.
<wgrant> So we get it into Jaunty early and backport it.
<wgrant> Very little change.
<jdong> right, that's the alternative plan.
<wgrant> They can get it in 1.5 months in RELEASE, or 2 months in BACKPORTS.
<jdong> or 1 week if I finish my homework early ;-)
<jdong> (watch that curse my week)
<wgrant> Heh.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: Wouldn't you rather be dealing with security patches from their current release than an old one?
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: Perhaps, but Debian will be in the same boat and they're needed for Hardy anyway.
<ScottK> Debian will be regardless of if it goes into Sid or not because it won't make Lenny.
<wgrant> That's my point.
<jdong> well... I'd hate to be tracking an old VLC release from a security standpoint anyway.... TBH if something nasty like that does happen down the road I would lean towards just giving everyone 0.9.2
<jdong> it's an end-user app with no revdeps, do as we do with the Mozillas
<wgrant> Something nasty like what?
<jdong> wgrant: a security vulnerability is found in some bundled part of the 0.8.6i+a+b+c+d+whatever release we have now.
<wgrant> jdong: Oh, that happens literally monthly.
<wgrant> And we have no bundling any more.
<jdong> wgrant: I hate media players...
<jdong> wgrant: this is one of those cases where IMO we should just follow upstream's releases. I can't really think of a use case for why backporting patches is a good idea for VLC.
<wgrant> Package it up and get it tested, I guess.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-16
<coppro> wait, is my Launchpad account an OpenID?
<nhandler> Yes coppro
<coppro> what URL do I use for the signin
<coppro> because I'm trying to log into another OpenID site and it's not working
<coppro> I tried http://launchpad.net/~coppro, which seemed obvious
<boshhead> coppro: https://login.launchpad.net/
<coppro> ok ty
<coppro> boshhead: nope, not working
<coppro> oh wait, I see
<coppro> nevermind
<boshhead> coppro: How dare you doubt me.
<coppro> eh, turns out it isn't working after
<coppro> *after all
<boshhead> Worked for me :) Are you logged into launchpad?
<coppro> yes
<coppro> could be I need to be on the beta team
<coppro> I like beta stuff so I just applied :)
<nhandler> coppro: Go to launchpad.net/~coppro, it should show you your open id url
<coppro> where?
<coppro> I don't see it
<nhandler> coppro: For me, it shows it right below my SSH Keys, and above the map
<nhandler> Oh wait, I'm on edge, one sec
<boshhead> I didn't have to provide anything specific to me, just login.launchpad.net when I signed up for something.
<boshhead> Ahh, apparently that's an OpenID 2.0 thing :) If the site doesn't support it you have to use your specific URL :)
<coppro> even using edge I see no openid link :(
<coppro> sad, because I can use REVU
<boshhead> Time to scrap the whole OpenID thing.
<coppro> probably just in beta is the issue
<nhandler> coppro: Did you get the OpenID issue sorted out? I just check on the normal Launchpad, and it shows the OpenID url on your profile page if your are logged in.
<coppro> nope, don't see it
<coppro> and the isntructions just say it's in beta
<coppro> no specific other way to enable
<nhandler> I could have sworn that Launchpad 2.0 gave OpenID to everyone. That was why REVU switched to using OpenID
<Flannel> LP is an openID provider, yes.
<nhandler> coppro: Are you logged in to Launchpad?
<coppro> yes
<nhandler> You could try going to #launchpad. There should be an OpenID URL on your ~coppro page if you are logged in.
<coppro> ok ty
<nhandler> Sorry I couldn't be more of a help coppro
<nhandler> I hope you get the issue sorted out
<coppro> no worries
<radetsky> Hey motu, anybody in charge of qt/webkit here?
<radetsky> libqtwebkit-dev depends on and conflicts with libqt4-dev. I assume this is a bug.
<ScottK-laptop> radetsky: This is in Hardy, right?
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Did you ever come to any conclusions about the svn backport?
<ajmitch> ScottK-laptop: 1.5.1 to hardy? I haven't been testing any of the reverse dependencies, but 1.5 appears to work
<ScottK-laptop> ajmitch: There's an issue (apparently) with switching from libneon to ligneon-gnutls and SSL certs.
<ScottK-laptop> He was investigating.  Everything else seems to be fine.
<ajmitch> interesting, I tend to only use it with http:// or svn+ssh
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah, it's a minority use case, but I'd like to make it work for everyone.
<ajmitch> regressions are bad
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah.
<ScottK-laptop> In this case it's the result of a deliberate packaging change by the Debian Maintainer.
<radetsky> ScottK-laptop: sorry, got distracted
<radetsky> yeah, hardy
<ScottK-laptop> radetsky: Yes, it's a bug that's been reported, but not fixed.
<radetsky> ok
<radetsky> thanks
<ScottK-laptop> radetsky: Uninstall libqtwebkit-dev and libqtwebkit and then upgrade.
<ScottK-laptop> libqtwebkit-dev and such are now included in libqt4-dev and such IIRC.
<radetsky> I got " error: QWebKit: No such file or directory" even though I think I included everything correctly
<radetsky> but I might have done something wrong
<radetsky> anyway, I'm trying the upgrade as you suggested
<ScottK-laptop> As I recall, and I don't have time to research it right now, there is a conflict between the Hardy packages and the Intrepid packages that were backported.
<persia> If anyone is interested in updating VLC, upstream is in #ubuntu-bugs (j-b), and would like to help with an update, because a lot of bugs are fixed.  See bug #262705 for a hint.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262705 in vlc "VLC: New upstream release (0.8.6.i)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262705
 * persia doesn't have any idea wheter it's worth a freeze exception
<ScottK-laptop> jdong ^^^
<radetsky> ScottK-laptop: you think this has been fixed in intrepid-backports?
<ScottK-laptop> radetsky: It has not.  You have to work through it manually.
<radetsky> oh boy
<ScottK-laptop> radetsky: You might search for the bug.  I think what you need to do is in that.
<radetsky> where, launchpad? I'm not an ubuntu dev, so I don't know these things
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, in Launchpad.  Sorry I can't be more helpful, I've got about a dozen balls in the air right now.
<radetsky> no problem
<radetsky> I'm sort of saying stuff for the benefit of anyone else who might be here as well, so if you can't handle it, np
<radetsky> in any case, the bug I found (230904) doesn't actually give a fix, it just confirms that the problem does in fact exist. If anyone can point me to the fix, please do
<stdin> radetsky: libqtwebkit* is obsolete, just install libqt4-dev and/or libqt4-webkit
<StevenK> stdin: I nearly read that as libgtkwebkit* is obsolete
<j-b> jdong: ping
<superm1> j-b, perhaps for helping to determine which bugs are fixed and to help, you can document some of these bug numbers in the bug that is trying to decide if a Feature Freeze Exception is worth it?
<superm1> (in bug 262705)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262705 in vlc "VLC: New upstream release (0.9.2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262705
<j-b> superm1: done
<j-b> superm1: there is 189575 113927 114539  103741 111615 107899 112076 198916 221428 2722 239431  205325 97721 127594 84098  88487 90603 91679 96978 113922 123589  133528 113922  210354 193445 231621 250041 259025
<superm1> j-b, ah very good
<j-b> that should be closed with the update
<j-b> moreover, if jdong compile with --enable-shout, it will close  127594
<j-b> and a few duplicates should follow
<superm1> i'll add that information to the bug report
<j-b> it is already on it
<j-b> Bug 270404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270404
<superm1> oh there are a few bug reports, that'd be why
<j-b> superm1: one should be in for hardy
<j-b> pone for interpid
<j-b> one for intrepid
<superm1> well they could have both been done as a single bug report for both hardy and intrepid
<j-b> superm1: well, they were not :D
<j-b> anyway, superm1, 270404 should document most of the bugs that should be closed with update to 0.9.2
<superm1> yeah that's what i see
<superm1> i'll mark the lesser useful one as a duplicate then
<j-b> k
<j-b> I strongly advise to update libmpeg2 too
<j-b> and to apply a small patch
<j-b> to fix an issue
<superm1> woo that's a fair deal of CVE's referenced in that bug too
<j-b> yeah
<j-b> but you can also not put this version in intrepid
<j-b> and deal with those issues, that we won't deal with
<j-b> superm1: can I ask why vlc is in multiverse ? x264 encoding ?
<superm1> j-b, yeah the x264 package is in multiverse, so vlc has to be there too
<j-b> k
<superm1> wgrant, you were set as the assignee on the old bug before i rearranged the duplicates, do you want me to reassign you, or just let motu-release handle deciding on this?
<j-b> Ok, I just hope I didnd't screw your bugsystem
<j-b> and that my work was useful
<j-b> siretart: if you are around, I did as I promised, to do some vlc bugs cleaning
<superm1> j-b, listing all of those bugs will be quite helpful in cleaning up. most appreciated
<j-b> superm1: you know where to find me
<superm1> the person who ends up doing the packaging will just need to copy that list into the changelog and they will get closed once this upload is done
<j-b> I now registered in your launchpad, so you can find me easily
<j-b> ok
<superm1> very good thank you :)
<j-b> I will look at it
<j-b> superm1: however, I really advise to add a patch on the released tarball
<dholbach> good morning
<j-b> where do I do that ?
<superm1> j-b, i would recommend attaching that patch to the same bug report for now
<superm1> in the future, you can file another bug asking to put that patch in place
<j-b> can I link to a git view web ?
<superm1> yeah that would be sufficient
<j-b> git web
<superm1> give a justification for it in the comment
<superm1> and then jdong (who i believe was going to be the one packaging) should see it noted there
<j-b> ok
<j-b> jdong: please enable-shout and patch it
<j-b> Done. added
<j-b> anyway, C U later
<j-b> I am always on #videolan
<superm1> okay
<superm1> good morning dholbach
<j-b> good luck for your work, and thanks. My g/f loves her new "Windows with a cool Heron on it"
<dholbach> hiya superm1
<j-b> :)
<wgrant> superm1: Which one? The 0.8.6i update bug?
<hagabaka> what's a heron?
<j-b> good night *
<ajmitch> dholbach: greetings
<dholbach> hi ajmitch!
<hagabaka> hmm
<hagabaka> there's a heron on ubuntu?
<superm1> wgrant, oh that was meant as an SRU bug i see.  nvm then, i'll fix my mistake
<wgrant> superm1: Security, but yes.
<persia> superm1: One note about the hardy VLC bug was that there was a separate need for a security update for 0.8.6.j
<superm1> persia, yeah i saw that j-b added that to the hardy VLC bug
<superm1> isn't there a way for LP to indicate this bug is going to be for tracking on hardy only? it's not clear from looking at the bug report at a first glance
<wgrant> superm1: Nominate it for Hardy, reject it for Ubuntu.
<superm1> ah there we go, okay
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop: ?
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop: So, w.r.t. to KDE4bindings, do I fail?
<AnAnt> Hello, is there anything I should add to this bug report: 269855
<AnAnt> bug 269855
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269855 in sl-modem "Please apply patch to fix issue with Si3054 modems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269855
<AnAnt> is abcdef here ?
<slangasek> who?
<AnAnt> slangasek: just checking if persia is running a bot
<persia> AnAnt: I'm not a bot.  Just in lots of places.
<AnAnt> persia: I know that you're not a bot, but on #ubuntu-devel you gave me the same answer that you gave me few weeks ago when I asked about someone else
<persia> Anyway, sl-modem needs *lots* of attention, more than just a quick patch for Si3054 modems.
<persia> AnAnt: I give everyone that response when they ask for specific people and I know they don't need that person.
<AnAnt> persia: well, the patch was for a laptop I ran into
<persia> AnAnt: Understood.  Take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sl-modem
<AnAnt> persia: I see, well according to sl-modem's changelog, Ian seems the one who worked mostly on sl-modem, that's why I asked about him
<persia> There are a *lot* of outstanding patches.  Also, there is a pending merge with upstream that could be done.
<persia> Yeah, but it's not been touched in over a year.
<persia> Anyway, the point is that if you put together a candidate including all the patches and what not, and tested it, it's much more likely that something would happen.
<persia> Until then, it's just waiting for someone (anyone) who cares about the package to make it work.
<didrocks> o/
<didrocks> I don't understand why I was rejected in my PPA: "PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket" trying to upload to it my iptables backport for hardy
<dholbach> didrocks: somebody in #launchpad might have a good answer for you
<didrocks> ok, thx dholbach :)
<AnAnt> so, why no one cares about sl-modem
<persia> AnAnt: That's a hard question.  Personally, I suspect that the wider availability of alternate networking technologies has made modem support less interesting.
<persia> I've always been vaguely interested in sl-modem to support computer telephony, but upstream hasn't ever had enough support for that for me to be able to play much.
<AnAnt> I think I can see why, it's a headache !
<AnAnt> the sl-modem patch system is a real headache
<AnAnt_> why is there such a split between Ubuntu & Debian regarding sl-modem package ?
<persia> AnAnt_: Mostly because Ubuntu pushed the kernel modules into the kernel, and split the package.  Unfortunately, that large a change is only sensible if someone is watching the package (which isn't the case now).
<persia> Personally, I think it might make sense to revert that kernel change, and DKMSify sl-modem (but I'm not going to get around to that)
<AnAnt_> persia: sl-modem is orphaned in Debian btw
<persia> AnAnt_: Yep.  Nobody really wants to care for it :)
<AnAnt_> persia: is it possible that I NMU a new upstream in Debian ?
<AnAnt_> persia: I still dunno about DKMS, but is that supported in Debian too ?
<broonie> For DKMS check debian-devel over the weekend, there was a thread started about supporting it.
<broonie> (the mailing list)
<persia> AnAnt_: For NMU, certainly, if you have support from a Debian Developer, and you do a good job.  For DKMS, broonie is much more informed than I.
<broonie> If the package is orphaned it's not a NMU to do a new upstream version (it's a QA upload and allowed, though people would prefer that you adopt the package if you care about it.
<persia> People in Ubuntu would also prefer that sl-modem be adopted by someone: it needs love
<broonie> wv :)
<iulian> Good morning.
<verwilst> new version of flash 10 is out!
<verwilst> new nspluginwrapper'ed version coming up? ;)
<laga_> does it *work*?
<directhex> flash 10 is better than it was
<directhex> though tbh nspluginwrapper i don't trust at all
<directhex> i run a tarball i386 firefox these days because nspluginwrapper was so painful
<verwilst> don't have a lot of issues with nspluginwrapper though
<jimqode> I'm having trouble building smbldap-tools from intrepid .dsc . Could someone look at the output please: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47407/
<compengi> when packaging pidgin to deb as a single package using dh_make -s -c gpl, do i need *.ex *.EX dirs docs info README.debian files?
<persia> compengi: First, why wouldn't you just start from the existing packaging?  Secondly, you don't want to ship any example files, but you may need to replace them, rather than just deleting them.
<compengi> persia, so how do i start?
<persia> compengi: apt-get source pidgin is usually a good place to start.
<persia> compengi: What is your end goal?
<compengi> persia, i want to package a new version of pidgin to change it from source to debian package to be compatible with ubuntu
<persia> compengi: OK. For Intrepid?
<compengi> persia, as far as a can see that the deadline for intrepid is ended, so i can't upload it to respiratory, so i think hardy would be for now good
<persia> compengi: The deadline for hardy was 6 months ago :)
<compengi> persia, i know. but could be good uploading it to my launchpad ppa :)
<persia> compengi: OK.  In that case, start with apt-get source pidgin in hardy.
<persia> Then change the source as you need: if you've a new upstream, this probably means reviewing all the patches applied, and adding a new changelog entry.
<persia> Then, once you have it working, debuild -S -sa to prepare a source package.
<persia> Build the source package with sbuild or pbuilder to make sure it works cleanly.
<persia> Test it.
<persia> Then upload to your PPA.
<compengi> persia, i downloaded the source pidgin for hardy. now i downloaded the new pidgin release tar.bz2 unpacked and repacked to .orig.tar.bz and commented in the change log. i ran dh_make -s -c gpl and edited changelog, control, copyright files. what would i have to do as the next step as with the pidgin source that i've downloaded and the source that i've got
<persia> Throw away everything you have, and start from the hardy source.
<compengi> aha
<persia> The only part you want to keep is the orig.tar.gz
<compengi> from pidgin's new version that i've repacked
<persia> Actually, you might even want to drop that.  Try running debian/rules get-orig-source from inside the hardy package.  That ought get a new repacked orig.tar.gz that was repacked in the standard manner.
<nxvl> good morning
<compengi> persia, $ Debian/rules get-orig-source make:  *** No rule in order to generate âget-orig-source".  End.
<persia> compengi: Odd.  I thought all the GNOME packages had that.  In that case, you do want your repacked orig.tar.gz from the new upstream.
<wgrant> persia: Pidgin isn't part of GNOME.
<ScottK> \sh: How goes Bug 246911?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246911 in ia32-libs "[Wishlist] please add libnspr4-0d to ia32-libs" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246911
<\sh> ScottK: I'm on it...
<Juli_> ScottK: hi! you've commented bug 253016 recently. I wonder how much time it has before it needs to get re-assessed? I mean what is deadline for upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253016 in netbeans "New upstream version (6.1) for netbeans" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253016
<compengi> persia, i don't understand what i have to do with the old source
<persia> Juli_: I'll upload it within the next three hours.
<persia> compengi: You want the contents of debian/ : most importantly the patches.
<compengi> persia, aren't those patches old?
<persia> compengi: Yes, but some of them may be important, and may not be upstream yet.
<compengi> persia, so how do i make sure?
<persia> compengi: Review them.
<compengi> persia, you mean read them or i need to check somehow if they are still necesary?
<persia> compengi: Both.
<Juli_> persia: Thanks! but just interesting when FFE expires, in 2 weeks?
<persia> Juli_: No fixed deadline, but people get grumpy when it takes too long.  In this case, it's clearly my fault, and as much as anything, I'm being prodded.
<persia> Given the current state of things, not uploading retains brokenness that we want to drop.
<compengi> persia, btw are those patches from pidgin?
<compengi> or wrote by those who had packed to debian?
<persia> compengi: Some might be pulled from upstream, some might be written by Debian folk, some by Ubuntu folk, and some pulled from elsewhere.
<compengi> hmm..
<persia> Also, no matter who wrote them, some of them may have been accepted upstream.
<emgent> ScottK: ping
<persia> Updating a package isn't easy at all: probably one of the harder tasks done by MOTU.
<compengi> persia, isn't better downloading the source package from intrepid's repos?
<compengi> since new patches and things had changed from version 2.4.1 to 2.5.0
<persia> compengi: You could do that, but it might require intrepid to build the source, or build the binary.  If hardy is your target, pulling from intrepid just makes it more for you to review.
<Juli_> persia: understood. and one more little question: should I create a bug for jna's build problem and follow the usual process to upload a fix -  find a sponsor?
<persia> You'll get a better quality end-product, but it's more work.
<persia> Juli_: jna's build problem?  I thought I fixed that.
 * persia looks again
<compengi> aha
<Juli_> persia: actually may be I missed something
<Juli_> checking...
<Juli_> persia:  yes, my bad
<persia> Juli_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/libjna-java/3.0.4-0ubuntu2 says it built on everything but hppa, and that's blocked because there is no default-jdk for hppa.
<Juli_> everything is ok now, sorry
<Juli_> persia: thanks a lot!
<persia> Good.  You had me frightened.  I've been busy with other things, and haven't been giving this the attention it needed, but I thought netbeans was ready for upload.
<compengi> persia, so how would you recommend to be followed and uptodate with all those things? like what's changed and what patches are needed and what aren't etc. reading a tutorial from wiki doesn't explain much as it is in fact.
<Juli_> persia: sorry...
<persia> Juli_: No worries.  Small fright only, but fully assuaged by the build page in LP.
<persia> compengi: There was an *excellent* session in the most recent developer week on just this topic.
<Juli_> persia: I'm a bit absent-minded after vacation:)
<compengi> persia, any summary of what have been discussed?
<persia> compengi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0809/PackageUpdates
<emgent> pochu: ping
<persia> Juli_: No worries.  Welcome back :)
<Juli_> persia: Thanks! :)
<pochu> emgent: pong
<siretart>      
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser_> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ScottK-laptop> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK-laptop
<NCommander> morning bddebian
<bddebian> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> how goes it bddebian
<bddebian> OK thanks, you?
<NCommander> decafinated :-/
<infinito> which is the correct signature for the debian/changelog to close launchpad bugs?
<siretart> LP: #1
<infinito> siretart: and if it closes several bugs?? LP: #1, #2, #3 ?
<persia> infinito: It's a rare case that one thing closes several bugs, but yes, that works.  More common is to expand the changelog entry, explaining each change, and including the relevant LP: #nnnn thereafter
<infinito> persia: i'm talking about a new upstream release which closes 3 bugs
<persia> infinito: Yes.  Hold on a second, and I'll prepare a pastebin with a sample of how I prefer to read it :)
<james_w> infinito: explaining what in the new upstream release fixes each particular bug is preferred
<james_w> infinito: if they are just "please update" bugs then that is fine
<infinito> james_w: the upstream version has a line for each bug on its NEWS file
<james_w> you can probably just copy them and add the bug references then
<infinito> james_w: something like this? http://paste2.org/p/74766
<james_w> infinito: yeah
<james_w> I prefer to see something about what the fix was, but if they are taken from the upstream NEWS file then I can just complain about them
<persia> infinito: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47499/ is an example
<persia> Notice that it closes lots of bugs, but it also explains what has changed, and how.
<siretart> infinito: if a new upstream release closes 3 bugs, then you should still explain what has changed in this version, and not only close the bugs
<siretart> infinito: or are all 3 bugs requesting a new upstream release and are in fact duplicates?
<infinito> siretart: they are 3 bugs, each related to a different thing, which are solved in new upstream release
<siretart> infinito: great
<infinito> james_w, persia, siretart: maybe is better this way? http://paste2.org/p/74772
<siretart> infinito: perfect
<siretart> (perhaps linewrap after 78 colums)
<persia> infinito: Indeed, although we avoid bumping the standards version in Ubuntu for packages also in Debian
<infinito> persia: this is for uploading into debian, and then sync in ubuntu, that's why i bumped standards
<persia> infinito: In that case, perfect :)
 * persia wonders if that actually closes the LP bugs: does the manual-sync process generate .changes files that include the right header?
<ScottK-laptop> persia: It does.
<Laney> IIRC it does
<persia> Excellent.  I remember when it didn't, but I don't often see examples.
<j-b> where can I find nullack?
<james_w> j-b: he doesn't seem to be online right now
<persia> j-b: Right now, not much of anywhere.  Usually in #ubuntu-bugs, #ubuntu-testing, #ubuntu-quality, and probably others.
<compengi> persia, perfect. i read the wiki page of the perfect session. learned a lot. i erased actually everything and started it from ground. i unpacked the new version of pidgin and renamed it to ubuntu's standarts. then downloaded the source and zcat patches -p1. i need to comment that at the end in dch -i right?
<j-b> too bad
<persia> compengi: Sounds like you're on the right track.
<ScottK-laptop> j-b: He's in Australia, IIRC, so this probably isn't the best time of day in any case.
<james_w> j-b: anything anyone else here can help you with?
<j-b> well, I think he misunderstood me and my bug report
<j-b> about VLC 0.9.2
<compengi> persia, thanks and i hope so. i tried to run diff but it's senseless you know why :P. what should be the next step
<james_w> j-b: requesting the new version be included in Intrepid?
<j-b> yes
<persia> compengi: Next step towards what goal?  If your goal is still a PPA, you ought be able to upload.
<j-b> he says it is not doable because it needs a newer FFmpeg
<j-b> which is totally wrong
<persia> compengi: If your next step is to get it in intrepid, you want to talk to the people in #ubuntu-desktop
<compengi> persia, ermm.. you think that only unpacking merging the patches from the old release to the new one would be enough?
<persia> j-b: Does it not need a newer FFmpeg?  Also, I thought jdong was planning that update with you, but took a break to sleep, wasn't he?
<Milyardo> The new FFmpeg does need to included as well, but I do not bielive Video Lan requires it either j-b
<j-b> persia: I compile VLC top of the tree with a 1 year old FFmpeg
<persia> compengi: Oh, do you not have a source pacakge yet?  In that case, it's `debuild -S -sa`
<james_w> j-b: it sounds like he suggests that it is needed for the "best experience"
<j-b> james_w: no, it is better to fix two ubuntu bugs
<persia> j-b: Then it's just wrong :)  If the conversation is in a bug report, please correct the misconception.
<devfil> ScottK-laptop: if a new upstream version add only a translation and fix bugs, is the added translation considerated bugfix or do I need a FFe?
<compengi> persia, what you mean by source package?
<j-b> persia: no, becaus he said so in the forums...
<persia> compengi: A .dsc, a .diff.gz, and an .orig.tar.gz
<ScottK> devfil: I'd call a fixed/added translation a bug fix.
<persia> j-b: The forums are rarely a good source of developer input.
<j-b> Milyardo: the fact that VLC doens't enter Intrepid is one thing
<Milyardo> :)
<devfil> ScottK: ok thanks
<j-b> Milyardo: saying that it doesn't enter BECAUSe of needing newer FFmpeg is wrong
<j-b> Milyardo: however, I can assure you that 0.8.6j has security issues
<j-b> that are fixed in 0.9.2
<j-b> even if they have no CVE
<j-b> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/113922 like this one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 113922 in vlc "vlc is potentially vulnerable to buffer overflow in specially crafted mp4 files" [Undecided,Fix released]
<persia> Well, we caught that one :)
<compengi> persia, of the new one nope. i have just merged the patches from the old (2.4.1 hardy) to the new source 2.5.1. btw you noted lately that i need to build this package under intrepid if i want to release it there, and 2. if i want to release it under intrepid i need first to get the newest 2.5.0 source from intrepid's respiratory am i getting right?
<j-b> this one http://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=commitdiff;h=deedaf8267f7a9c02cbc9aa728a68e5156eabb4c
<Laney> j-b: Check bug #270404 - where discussions are going on if you haven't seen it already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270404
<j-b> Laney: I mostly wrote all the comments of this bug
<Laney> j-b: Ah, that's you
<Laney> Nice work - those comments are super helpful
<j-b> Milyardo: anyway, I don't care if you don't ship VLC in Interpid
<persia> compengi: That sounds right.
<j-b> Milyardo: however, I don't like that ubuntu developers blame US
<j-b> that is just my point
<Milyardo> Ahhh
<j-b> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5791767&postcount=8
<j-b> because of that post
<j-b> ANd I don't know how to fix http://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=commitdiff;h=deedaf8267f7a9c02cbc9aa728a68e5156eabb4c in 0.8.6 branch
<j-b> I should try
<j-b> anyway, bbl
<compengi> persia, so let me just make it clean under hardy, so i would learn abit more of how to package and when i'll get that finished i'll just give it out to pidgin's team for people to use. but first i need to make sure if i'm doing fine
<persia> compengi: Sounds like a good plan.
<compengi> indeed
<Milyardo> VLC doesn't staticly link to SVN, it was packages that way by the MOTUs
<persia> Milyardo: Well, by a specific person.  It's not best to blame groups generally.  Often the specific person had a reason, and communication with that person will lead to a mutually acceptable solution.
<slytherin> can someone please give back dbus-java?
<Milyardo> I know, I wasn't blaming the group, I just don't know who that specific person is
<Milyardo> I was just citing another error in Nullack's post
<compengi> persia, do i need to add anything in changelog, control or copyright? or in dch -i after i'd comment the changes the script would automatically edit those files
<persia> compengi: You need to review the changed files in the new upstream, and if there were any licensing changes, make sure to update debian/copyright.  You need to review the dependencies and build-dependencies, and maybe update debian/control.  Lastly, you must add a new entry in debian/changelog.  dch -i can help.
<persia> Milyardo: aptitude changelog $(package) can tell you a lot.  Checking changelogs.ubuntu.com can tell you even more.
<persia> slytherin: Just FYI, crevette probably won't have time to update bluez-gnome, if you want to look at it.
<slytherin> persia: Nothing is working on my side except phone to pc file transfer. Even if I update the packages I won't be able to test them.
<slytherin> persia: superm1 has promise to do a sanity test with current versions.
<slytherin> I mean the ones in repository.
<persia> slytherin: OK.  crevette seemed to think we really needed to update, at least to 0.27, but if there's another way to fix the bugs :)
<slytherin> persia: Yes there is, update to 4.x :-P
<persia> slytherin: That's just not going to happen.  0.27 or 0.28 is possible.
<persia> (but the time is getting very short indeed, if someone doesn't decide to organise testing and do it)
<slytherin> persia: did you see the link I sent yesterday? FF10 is going to include 4.x. :-(
<persia> FF10?  What is that?
<slangasek> FinalFox
<slytherin> sorry I meant Fedora 10
<slytherin> And this is probably because Bastien Nocera works for Fedora as well as bluez-gnome. :-)
<persia> Could be.  Could also be because someone in Fedora is paying any attention to bluetooth.  For Ubuntu it seems to be mostly yourself and crevette.
<slytherin> How about I mail to devel-discuss list so that at least we will know how many are interested.
<persia> slytherin: I don't think that's a useful metric.  It only takes one person to prepare the appropriate patches to fix the known issues and call for testing.  So far, nobody has done it.
<persia> Asking on devel-discuss will generate discussion, but I'm not sure it will generate 0.28-0ubuntu1, which is the key important bit.
<persia> If we have a 0.28-0ubuntu1, discussion and testing is good.
<slytherin> persia: No I was talking about 4.x. And the reason that no one has done it yet may be because everyone thought someone was doing it. Like I said tollef headed bluez in hardy cycle. But he doesn't do it anymore.
<persia> Right, but nobody is still doing it, and it's now known that nobody is doing it.
<compengi> btw is there any specific maintainer to Pidgin packages for ubuntu?
<persia> compengi: Ubuntu tends not to have specific maintainers for anything.  While occasionally this causes confusion (as for bluez-gnome as we were just discussion), typically the various teams keep things up to date.
<persia> You'll want to ask in #ubuntu-desktop about updating pidgin.
<Laney> compengi: seb128 is (was) doing the update
<slytherin> persia: I have to go. Got to go early to office early tomorrow.
<persia> slytherin: Have a good night.
<slytherin> good knight
<luisbg> hello all
<luisbg> I have a problem with how packages get installed in a group
<luisbg> I have a package that needs to be installed after an other one (some dpkg-divert involved with a file)
<luisbg> but if both packages are installed at the same time (apt-get install A B) which happens at install time of ubuntu studio
<luisbg> it won't work properly
<luisbg> :(
<luisbg> it is about the menu, first the package gnome-menus needs to  be installed
<luisbg> and then the package ubuntustudio-menu that moves the original menu to .orig and replaces it with the derivative done menu
<luisbg> if both packages are installed at the same time only the studio menu is installed (and no .orig)
<luisbg> this means that if a user removes the studio-menu file, the system has no menu
<luisbg> which is not good :(
<james_w> hey luisbg
<luisbg> hey james_w
<james_w> luisbg: it's supposed to work if they are installed at the same time as the preinst of the diverting package adds the diversion, isn't it?
<james_w> or does the diverted file have to be on disk?
<luisbg> james_w: the diverted file has to be on the disk
<james_w> and if it arrives after it is not installed, rather than just being, you know, diverted?
<luisbg> yes
<james_w> well, that sounds like a design flaw to me, as it would seem this situation would then be unavoidable, without using pre-depends, or just assuming that either the diverted package is always installed, or that the diverting package is not removed
<j-b> Milyardo: Where can I find the official FFmpeg configure used for Intrepid ?
<persia> j-b: The current candidate can be collected with `dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/f/ffmpeg-debian/ffmpeg-debian_0.svn20080206-12ubuntu1.dsc`
<j-b> persia: where do I find your configure line ?
<persia> j-b: Typically in debian/rules
<persia> You can unpack the source with dpkg-source -x ffmpeg-debian_0.svn20080206-12ubuntu1.dsc
<persia> If you don't have the tools, you can also extract it from the diff.gz, but that's not always pretty.
<j-b> I have not done debian packages in 3 or 4 years, so I have forgotten
<j-b> libswscale seems to be in it
<j-b> so, no need for FFmpeg update to get VLC
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I've been working on bug 180384. Anyone using Thunderbird is willing to test the produced package? Thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 180384 in mozilla-traybiff "Please merge mozilla-traybiff 1.2.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180384
<\sh> guys...
<\sh> does anyone know more about the source package gail and why it's synced in the first place, and after that removed?
 * ScottK reads lwn, "Meanwhile, Rockbox has performed a valuable service for Debian developers who would otherwise have to struggle to find a project with longer release cycles than their own."
<laga_> haha :)
<DktrKranz> \sh, IIRC gail is in libgtk now
<\sh> DktrKranz: hmm..
<DktrKranz> \sh: from gtk+2.0 (2.13.3-0ubuntu1)
<DktrKranz>     - use conflicts and replaces on the different libgail binaries since the
<DktrKranz>       library is in gtk now
<norsetto> \sh: bug 268713
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268713 in gail "libferret.so overwrite attempt - libgail-common versus libgtk2.0-0" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268713
<sebner> \sh DktrKranz norsetto \o/ \o/ \o/
<norsetto> sebner: o_0
<sebner> norsetto: yes?
<norsetto> sebner: trying to keep both eyes open ...
<DktrKranz> sebner, new script, isn't it? ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: multi hello script :P
 * DktrKranz hides
<sebner> norsetto: because you are tired or because of me? ^^
<sebner> DktrKranz: ^^
<norsetto> sebner: do you know the meaning of paranoic ?
<DktrKranz> sebner, you better run fast now...
 * sebner runs away and cries. cesare doesn't want his love :(
<DktrKranz> sebner, he can't, he's married and his wife would become angry...
<sebner> DktrKranz: bah, his wife has to share him :P
<soren> norsetto, ScottK-laptop: You've both been somewhat involved in the python-django 1.0 thing, and I'd like some advice. I have a merged package ready, but I don't want to ruin that Eddy guy's first experience with Ubuntu development by trampling over the bug and uploading it if he's somewhat close to being done. Opinions?
<norsetto> soren: wasn't it uploaded already?
<norsetto> soren: no, my mistake, that was netbeans
<ScottK-laptop> soren: Comment in the bug thanking him for his work and say you've built on it to make an upload ready package.  Give him some time (a day or so) to respond and upload if he doesn't.
<ScottK-laptop> soren: You might even put your debdiff in the bug and ask him what he thinks.
<ScottK-laptop> He was pretty clearly confused about how to merge based on the fact that there was a previous Ubuntu diff, so I don't think he'll mind.
<soren> ScottK-laptop: That sounds like a good idea. I'm not going to say that I built on his work, since... well, I didn't :)
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  OK.
<soren> ScottK-laptop: To be honest, it was rather less than straightforward.
<norsetto> soren: it could be good for him to see how you did it anyway
<ScottK-laptop> Well then I'd suggest being as generous about his contribution as is honest.
<soren> ScottK-laptop: Apparantly, Debian had two branches, one that was going on in experimental, and one that was going on in unstable, each with their own changelog history.
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  Yes.  That sort of thing.
<soren> ...the current package we have was a branch of the one in unstable. The 1.0-1 package originates from the old experimental branch.
<ScottK-laptop> Then once 1.0 came out it jumps to Sid.
<soren> Yes. So *none* of the changelog diff applied properly.
<ScottK-laptop> Lovely.
<soren> I just stuck the Ubuntu specific changelog entries in a big pile at the most reasonable point in time, which is around where the two trees branched.
<ScottK-laptop> Sounds about right.
<soren> I can see why a first timer would get confused by that.
<soren> Heck, it confused the heck out of me for a while.
<ScottK-laptop> Then I comment along the lines of "This one was really hard because" should also ease any hurt feelings he might have.
<soren> Right.
<soren> ScottK-laptop: Thanks. I've commented and attached the debdiff.
<ScottK-laptop> Great.  Glad to see we're making progress.  Even though I'm not web 2.0 enough to use it, I think it's important for the distro.
<ScottK-laptop> soren: I guess keybuck got tired of waiting for django.
<soren> ScottK-laptop: Yeah. At least he credited Eddy in the changelog.
<ScottK-laptop> Yep.
<punkrockguy318> Is it to late to get FCE Ultra 2 into intrepid?  it's a huge improvement over the current fceu
<punkrockguy318> Fceu Ultra is the main NES emulator for linux if you're unaware of the project
<calc> punkrockguy318: not sure if stuff in universe is bound by the FF or not
<calc> punkrockguy318: beta freeze is next week so its probably still acceptable but someone else would know more about universe stuff than I
<geser> calc: FF also applies to universe
<calc> geser: oh ok
<calc> i didn't realize it did since its not supported
<cody-somerville> calc, says who?
<geser> calc: universe is not supported by Canonical but the community still tries to get universe into a good shape before release, so e.g. no new upstream version after FF
 * calc probably is misremembering old data from several releases ago, sorry i'll shut up now
<calc> oh i think i know why i was confused
<calc> the text in the sources.list says "ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED"
<ScottK-laptop> calc: Canonical employees write the sources.list.
<calc> ScottK-laptop: yes, it seems to be somewhat inaccurate
<ScottK-laptop> I agree.
<calc> sorry for causing additional confusion
<ScottK-laptop> No problem.
<calc> i hope they get that meta support stuff done eventually
<calc> the stuff that was discussed during last UDS
 * cody-somerville nods.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-17
<handschuh> general question: if a package is in debian and ubuntu, will it be autosynced from debian to ubuntu, so that the maintainer only has to watch at one repository?
<nhandler> handschuh: If it is in Debian and Ubuntu, it will only be automatically synced if no changes have been made in Ubuntu.
<handschuh> so it would be more efficient to put a package into debian, and file a sync-packages-bug @ launchpad?
<handschuh> nhandler: btw. thanks for reviewing my package at revu
<nhandler> handschuh: The most efficient thing to do would be to try and get all of the Ubuntu changes applied in the Debian package. That way, the package could be automatically synced from Debian. If the changes are only needed in Ubuntu, and not in Debian, you will have to merge, not sync, the package from Debian
<nhandler> handschuh: No problem. If you make the changes I suggested, feel free to ping me on IRC and let me know. I will gladly look over it again.
<handschuh> I made them already :-)
<icf7> How do I encode the ampersand in a URL, like http://ex.org/?a=b&c=d . Tried &, \&, &&, but nothing seems to work and I can't find any documentation
<icf7> oops: How do I encode an ampersand in a URL in a
<handschuh> nhandler: so if a program has no ubuntu-specific requirements, debian would be the best point to start?
<icf7> *manpage*
<nhandler> handschuh: Yes handschuh. It will then get automatically synced once the Jaunty repositories open up (automatic syncs have stopped for Intrepid).
<handschuh> nhandler: ok thanks.
<handschuh> nhandler: so once the package is in the ubuntu repository, it will be synced automatically if the debian version is updated - great. How much time is needed to sync a change?
<ScottK-laptop> handschuh: If there are no Ubuntu changes it's automatic.
<ScottK-laptop> If there are Ubuntu changes then someone has to merge them.
<handschuh> ScottK-laptop: and how long will the change take? (hours, days or weeks)
<handschuh> ScottK-laptop: (i am just interested)
<ScottK-laptop> If it's automatic, during the period when autosync runs it's hours to days.  Not weeks.
<handschuh> ScottK-laptop: great - thanks!
<handschuh> and a merge has to be performed manually?
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<ScottK-laptop> Semi-automatically.  We have tools to assist, but manual review is required.
<handschuh> ok
<ethana2> Gyarr, this one package has bad dependencies
<handschuh> nhandler: did you read the message, that I have made all the changes you suggested at revu? (not want to push; just want to be sure the note here at irc has been read)
<nhandler> handschuh: I am looking over the package now. From looking at the debdiff, it looks like you made all of the changes I mentioned in my comment. I am now looking over the entire package a second time to make sure there isn't anything else that I might have missed the first time around.
<handschuh> oh - I cordally thank you
<nhandler> handschuh: Just so you are aware, your package probably will not make it into the repositories for intrepid. However, it should have plenty of time to get into jaunty
<handschuh> nhandler: not making it into intrepid is no problem (ppa and a seperate .deb is available) but jaunty would be nice
<nullack> Hi MOTUS :) Im hoping someone might be able to answer if the Intrepid kernel has any debugging code that would slow it down?
<nullack> Im chasing some performance issues
<nullack> While the kernel is in alpha
<wgrant> nullack: MOTU has nothing to do with this. -> #ubuntu-kernel
<nullack> wgrant: thanks
<nellery> hi, attempting to use debuild on firefox-3.0 fails to succeed.. is there a special way it must be done?
<wgrant> nellery: No. "fails to succeed" isn't very descriptive.
<nellery> wgrant, good point, here's a paste
<nellery> http://paste.ubuntu.com/47653/
<nellery> that's after no changes
<wgrant> sudo apt-get build-dep firefox-3.0
<nellery> I get "E: Build-Depends dependency for firefox-3.0 cannot be satisfied because no available versions of package mozilla-devscripts can satisfy the version requirements"
<wgrant> Sounds like you're building it somewhere that you shouldn't.
<wgrant> nellery: You're not trying to build Intrepid's firefox-3.0 on Hardy, are you?
<nellery> AHHH that would explain it
<nellery> thanks :)
<nhandler> Is there any advantage to using dh_install instead of cp in the debian/rules file?
<persia> nhandler: You're significantly less likely to make a mistake with the target name, it sets the permissions correctly, and you can use a debian/package.install file if you have lots of things to install.
<persia> If you don't have debhelper, consider using install to install the files.
<nhandler> persia: I'm actually looking at a package on REVU. They use cp and chmod to install the files to the correct location with the correct permissions. They already depend on debhelper. Should I advise they switch to dh_install? Or can they leave it as is?
<persia> Advise to switch to either install or dh_install.
<nhandler> Ok, thanks persia.
<persia> dh_install may be slightly preferable because it avoids tracking the install location, but that's a matter of packer convenience, rather than being a case of doing it the hard way.
<persia> s/packer/packager/
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I've asked for sponsorship for Bug 180384 (FTBFS for a Thunderbird add-on), but as it's an add-on for Thunderbird, should I suscribe first Mozilla Extension Team?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 180384 in mozilla-traybiff "Please merge mozilla-traybiff 1.2.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180384
<Hobbsee> oh, sweet.  i didn't realise we had -traybiff in the archives.
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: only as sources until now :-)
<fabrice_sp> I had to change references from icedove back to thunderbird to be able to build it
<persia> fabrice_sp: Probably good to subscribe both teams.  The Mozilla Extension team will know the code best, and can either upload or comment positively, increasing the chance that a sponsor will push it.
<persia> (or maybe you've already caught someone's interest)
 * Hobbsee notes the patch, while long, looks correct.
 * Hobbsee notes there's a newer versino now, but doubts it affects us.
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: it's a long patch because of all the reference to icedove and iceape :-/
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: yeah, i can see that.
<ScottK-laptop> We'll all be loving ice* soon perhaps.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: uploaded, thanks.
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: it looks like they've removed the eula requirement for firefox, btw.
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  Good.
 * ScottK-laptop waits for them to insist it must be called "Ubuntu with Firefox".
<ScottK-laptop> Although I kind if wish they'd just stuck with it and we'd switched to something else.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: i ended up grabbing the debian revision, and merging your changes against it.
<ScottK-laptop> I'm very uneasy having code in the main archives I can't patch.
<persia> ScottK-laptop: Well, you can patch it: it's just that every patch needs an upstream ACK.
<ScottK-laptop> persia: That's why I can't.  I've no idea how to deal with this outside entity.
<ScottK-laptop> So it's no longer a package that a generalist can do anything with.
<persia> Oh.  I'd recommend just shoving patches to the mozillateam, and letting them coordinate with upstream
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Agreed as a practical matter, but that's beside the point.
<ScottK-laptop> What about packages licensed like this that have no team?
<persia> Do we have any of those?  In the absence of such a team, I don't see how we can support it.
<persia> pq is a good example of such a package.
<ScottK-laptop> I don't know if we do or not.  Policy currently allows such a thing.
<persia> I suppose.  If we do, it's likely to be an ubuntu-unique package.  Perhaps worth a general copyright & licensing review of those anyway.
<ScottK-laptop> What worries me a bit more is that since I'm not in the habit of reading debian/copyright for every package I touch, I may do something legally bad without knowing it.
<ScottK-laptop> I generally assume i have the right to modify and distribute packages in the Main archives.
<persia> That's a habit you must change: it's dangerous to not read debian/copyright
<ScottK-laptop> Apparently.
<persia> Even in cases of GPL & BSD, etc.  Sometimes one can't just apply a patch from somewhere else that solved the issue.
<ScottK-laptop> I'd prefer to be protected by policy and the archive admins.
<ScottK-laptop> True.
<ScottK-laptop> The irony is that in some cases I'm not even allowed to pull from the upstream VCS unless it's been fully vetted and approved upstream.
<persia> Since the problem exists with DFSG licenses, I'm not sure how you're going to get any protection unless you decide to relicense everything GPL, and drop anything which can't be relicensed.
<ScottK-laptop> There are potential mixing problems with DFSG licenses.  That's true.
<persia> Personally, I'd rather read the contracts I accept, rather than assume someone else did, and that they are a trusted proxy.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, well that's probably the smarter strategy.
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: thanks! :-)
<persia> And remember, publishing a patch can count as redistribution, especially with common patch techniques that include context.
<ScottK-laptop> Yep.
<ScottK-laptop> I don't think that there's a package in Debian Main that I couldn't write my own patch and add it to though.
<ScottK-laptop> If there is, it's a bug.
<persia> For users, it's probably safer, as they don't tend to be redistributing, but as soon as one runs apt-get source, one ought read the license.
 * ScottK-laptop needs to be awake again in a little over 3 hours, so I should probably go to bed.
<persia> Sure, for your own patches, but you're accepting any liability for claims that the patches aren't yours :)
<persia> Have a good night.
<ScottK-laptop> Yep.
<ScottK-laptop> Good night.
<\sh> moins
<\sh> does anyone know nullack?
<persia> \sh: How do you mean? keysign-know, or seen traffic on IRC?
<\sh> persia: the irc/lp user "nullack"
<persia> I've seen a fair bit of traffic on IRC, ML, and LP.  Tends to be in #ubuntu-bugs, #ubuntu-testing, and #ubuntu-quality
<persia> Also active in the forums
 * \sh just needs some vacation or some drugs to calm down..but I wonder why bugsquad people are going sometimes wild...or I just don't understand bugwork anymore...
<\sh> could also be that I'm using the braindevice sometimes...
<\sh> bug #246911 <- just explain to me, why we need to nomniate "in progress and assigned bugs" now for the latest ubuntu development  release?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246911 in ia32-libs "[Wishlist] please add libnspr4-0d to ia32-libs" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246911
<\sh> this gives me a shitload more work to fiddle around with a simple report...
<\sh> and I wonder how long I have to tell people "don't touch already assigned bugs"
<persia> \sh: nullack was addvised not to do that recently, and has stopped.
<persia> (or claimed to have stopped).
<RAOF> He's perhaps a _little_ too enthusiastic, but seems willing to learn.
<persia> You might review the BugSquad documentation, and add a note in the triage guidelines that 1) nominating for the current release is only meaningful when also nominating for other releases in the expectation of SRU, and 2) there's typically little point in nominating tasks for bugs in-progress unless you're in communication with the assignee
<persia> He's from a long QA background, but just dipping into open-source and development.
<\sh> persia: it's not the first time that those things are happening and actually I'm tired of repeating the problems all the time
<persia> \sh: Understood.  I believe the only way to fix it is to adjust the bugsquad documentation.  The previous attempt was apparently unsuccessful, as it created a confusing class of "workflow" bugs.
<persia> A more correct adjustment might be the one you just suggested, of not adjusting bugs that are In-Progress, and especially not without discussion with the assignee.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, it was eventually successful.  after a revert & hissy fit was thrown, it got discussed at UDS, and then my original changes were made again.
<persia> I suspect that discussing such an adjustment at tonight's QA meeting would be the best path to success.
<Hobbsee> trouble is, the next UDS is rather far away.
<ajmitch> hello
<persia> Hobbsee: No.  It reduced the volume.  It didn't solve the issue, or \sh wouldn't be happy today.
<Hobbsee> persia: well, excluding nullack.
<persia> Hobbsee: It's iterative: we need to look for better and better definitions and ensure they are shared between all interested parties.
<Hobbsee> persia: that's true.
<\sh> persia: you forget one thing about documentation: most people don't read long documents...they want to start right away...
<persia> \sh: I know, but not adjusting the docs, and not getting buy-in from the bugsquad leaders means you have to teach each person yourself :)
<\sh> persia: na..I'm just tired to do that...I wouldn't bother anymore to take care  about bugs...I would just randomly upload crack ;)
<\sh> persia: who is bugsquad liason for MOTU?
<persia> \sh: OK.  If you're feeling pain, I recommend you attend the meeting and complain (I'm asleep during that meeting).
<persia> We don't have one specifically.  Most MOTU are part of bugsquad, and a number of bugsquad members (including me) are MOTU.
<\sh> persia: when is it? if it's in the evening..no way...I need sleep, I'm already under heavy workload these days (real life work)
<persia> \sh: I'm 7 hours ahead of you :)  Maybe you can get someone else to attend?
<Hobbsee> \sh: you could just try complaining at nullack in -bugs now.
<persia> (and maybe get nullack to take it to the meeting)
<Hobbsee> \sh: with the hope that he'd update documentation.
<ss_> Hi folks I want to create a deb package of a c# software (created in Monodevelop 1.0), plz refer me some links
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<ss_> thanks
<persia> ss_: You probably also want to look at the cli-common package.  I've never done any work with C# packaging, but it seems to be a common build-dependency, so I suspect there's useful stuff there.
<RAOF> cli-common-dev is likely what you want, yes.
<RAOF> Gah.  I was about to point him to http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<persia> RAOF: As time passes, everyone learns that idling can be informative :)
<RAOF> For those playing at home, the CLI policy is not only the policy you need to conform to, it also includes examples!
 * Hobbsee sighs.
<directhex> also look at the packaging for a "simple" c# app, such as, say, graphmonkey
<ajmitch> all helpful suggestions, if people stick around
<persia> And useful for those idling :)
<directhex> is there a browser plugin packaging policy?
<persia> directhex: Yes, but I forget the URL.  I suspect that those in #ubuntu-mozillateam have it handy
<RAOF> directhex: Planning on doing a moonlight package?-
<directhex> RAOF, yes, but i'd like to wait for mono 2 and an updated upstream tarball where they don't forget to include LICENSE
<didrocks> hi there o/
<RAOF> directhex: It's always nice when the code's distributable, yes :)
<directhex> RAOF, it was the usual error in EXTRA_DIST_FILEs or whatever it is. but i'd rather not need to pull from svn or make awkward explanations in debian/copyright
<RAOF> Indeed.  In a similar vein, I wonder whether I should ping google to see if they'd like to release a gdata-cil tarball which contains a build system. :)
<directhex> try it
<directhex> yay, ssl certificates updated across the board. took my time, it's been using a debian-made cert for ages
<\sh> ok..I hope I didn't mess up ia32-libs ... this was my first upload of it...*pressthumbs*
<savvas0> Hi, anyone to help me to build a package? What's the best way to make links of the executables in /usr/local/bin ? to add them in debian/links ?
<directhex> don't use /usr/local in packages
<directhex> /usr/local should be considered sacred by a package manager - it's where a user shoves random crap
<savvas0> ah
<directhex> \sh, does it contain curl libs? i think flash 10 needs it, and iirc it wasn't in the hardy release ver
<\sh> directhex: yes.
<\sh> directhex: could be that curl is needed for the rtmp connects...because that's one thing which didn't work on x86_64 properly..on i386 it worked
<directhex> jms@osc-franzibald:~$ ldd /opt/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so | grep curl
<directhex> 	libcurl.so.3 => not found
<savvas0> directhex:  I put the files in /usr/share/timekpr - or should I place the executables directly in /bin ?
<directhex> 10 explicitly links to libcurl.so.3
<\sh> directhex: latest ia32-libs 2.2ubuntu2 ?
<directhex> 2.2ubuntu11
<\sh> 2.2ubuntu12 is on it's way...
<\sh> (intrepid :))
<directhex> savvas0, generally executables go into /usr/bin, unless it's a .net app
<directhex> generally
<savvas0> ok thank you very much :)
<RAOF> (In which case wrappers go in /usr/bin ;))
<directhex> ^^ i'm with stupid
<quadrispro> hi guys, can someone proceed with this? bug 268059
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268059 in pygtkmvc "Please sync pygtkmvc 1.2.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268059
<quadrispro> It has been approved from motu-released
<quadrispro> s/from/by
<\sh> directhex: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17689132/ia32-libs_2.2ubuntu12_amd64.deb <- new version...if you would like to test now :)
<AnAnt_> is there a place where can I find old debian packages (.diff.gz files) ?
<StevenK> snapshot.debian.net if you're very lucky
<AnAnt_> old = not in oldstable even
<wgrant> Oh. Ooooold.
<azeem> AnAnt_: archive.debian.org, if that version got released
<AnAnt> thanks
<capiscuas1982> hi people, i need to MOTU persons to try and approve my package
<capiscuas1982> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/200232
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 200232 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Subdownloader 2.0.6 deb to be included in repositories" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<capiscuas1982> it's a 1.000.000 downloads GPLv3 multimedia project to get subtitles
<capiscuas1982> anybody to review ?
<capiscuas1982> is everybody alive ?
<wgrant> capiscuas1982: You would likely have more luck if you were to wait until Jaunty opens.
<capiscuas1982> intrepid is closed already?
<wgrant> For new packages, yes.
<wgrant> Some weeks ago.
<capiscuas1982> i see, thanks
<ScottK-laptop> \sh: I see you touched ggz-grubby last.  It's one of the very few packages keeping perl 5.8 from going away.  I was wondering if you'd have a look at rebuilding it?
<quadrispro> can anyone proceed with this? bug 268059
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268059 in pygtkmvc "Please sync pygtkmvc 1.2.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268059
<quadrispro> it has been approved by motu-release
<\sh> ScottK: ggz-... this is something from gnome + this strange game package, right?
<\sh> ScottK: I'll have a look just now../me needs to resolve some strange video stuff now
<ScottK-laptop> \sh: Some kind of not IRC but like IRC thing.  Dunno.
<ScottK-laptop> \sh: Thanks.
<ScottK-laptop> \sh: Other than some hppa specifc pain, that's the only package keeping perl5.8 in the archive.
 * pochu waves
<infinito> is it possible to get a sync from debian yet?
<ScottK> infinito: Yes.  For bug fixes or new features with a Freeze Exception.
<ScottK> For bug fixes it's not only possible, it's encouraged.
<infinito> ScottK: 'till when?
<infinito> until when, i meant....
<ScottK> It depends on exactly what it is.  The final freeze is usually the weekend before release.
<infinito> a liitle python app
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: New package are not possible now without a really compelling reason.
<infinito> it's not new, it's already on ubuntu
<ScottK-laptop> OK.
<ScottK-laptop> Is it a new upstream release or a new debian revision?
<ScottK-laptop> If the former and it also provides changed/new features (not just bugfix) it will need a freeze exception.
<infinito> new upstream release with new features and bugfixes
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: Then you'll need to look into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: ok, thanks
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: but do i need to do all the process just for a sync?
<wgrant> Yes. A sync is no different. Why would it be?
<infinito> ok
<quadrispro> does anyone work on bug 268773?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268773 in nanourl "nanourl "unnaturally" depends on Apache" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268773
 * ScottK-laptop pokes jdong about backports.
<\sh> ScottK: ggz-grubby doesn't build anymore
<\sh> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47763/
<\sh> ScottK: but sid has a new upstream...checking if that builds nicely
<ScottK-laptop> \sh: Great.  If it builds I'll be glad to be the first ack on FFe.
<\sh> ScottK: forget it...it FTBFS at the same location
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Got an FTBFS for you ^^^
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop: should I run?
<ScottK-laptop> Nah, it's not even hppa.
<NCommander> \p/
<NCommander> build log?
<ScottK-laptop> http://paste.ubuntu.com/47763/
<NCommander> that's it?
<ScottK-laptop> \sh has more.
<ScottK-laptop> That's where it dies
<NCommander> should I fix the one in Ubuntu, or do a sync/merge?
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: For motivation, this is the last source package rebuild needed to get Perl 5.8 out of the archive (It's now cruft).
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: If the new one has features, just fix ours.  Otherwise, it's probably be better to update.
<NCommander> I'll just fix it
<NCommander> Less effort usually than a full merge + FFe
<NCommander> Something is strangely broken]
<ScottK-laptop> Perfect for you then, right?
<NCommander> this looks like a bug with /usr/share/ggz/modules/ggz-grubby
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> ggz-config
<NCommander> since it is not respecting DESTDIR
<NCommander> found the "issue"
<ScottK-laptop> Excellent.
<NCommander> I have no idea how to fix it however ATM\
<ScottK-laptop> Less Excellent.
<ScottK-laptop> What's the problem?
<NCommander> ggz-config isnt' respecting DESTDIR
<NCommander> IF you set destdir via an environmental variable, and then add -D, it works
<NCommander> This works on Debian
<NCommander> This doesn't work on Ubuntu
<NCommander> (via the makefile)
<ScottK-laptop> libtool difference?
<\sh> NCommander: do the fix in the new of sid
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop: unlikely
<NCommander> \sh: yes sir, fi your willing to write to FFe :-)
<\sh> NCommander: fix it first, I'll write the FFe
<NCommander> \sh: yes sir :-)
<\sh> NCommander: thx
<james_w> is anyone having a problem in Intrepid with upgrading ttf-dejavu-extra?
<james_w> it's meaning that I can't currently build anything in a chroot
<james_w> making it quite hard to submit an FFe
<NCommander> james_w: not here
<iulian> It's working good here too.
<james_w> thanks, I'll give it a kick
 * iulian stares at bddebian
<bddebian> heya gang
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<bddebian> Why are you staring at me? :)
<iulian> bddebian: Hey... I was just waiting for your message :-)
<iulian> bddebian: If it's not polite, I won't stare at you anymore ;)
<bddebian> :)
 * iulian hides
<soren> cody-somerville: Do you know if anyone is working on packaging Xfce 4.6?
<cody-somerville> Yes, its done.
<soren> Oh. In a PPA, I presume?
<soren> Ah, xubuntu-dev.
<cody-somerville> yup but I'm not sure if they're outdated
 * cody-somerville pokes NCommander.
<soren> cody-somerville: I presume this is Jaunty material?
<cody-somerville> Yea, it won't make it for Intrepid : (
<soren> Alright.
<soren> cody-somerville: Are you using the packages in the PPA?
<cody-somerville> me? not on this machine
<soren> Ok.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Do you have a moment to look at another package (I was in the middle of this one and just found someone filed a grave bug against one of my packages in Debian).
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop: sure, but not at the moment, need to run in a few minutes
<geser> ScottK-laptop: re your bug closure for libb-size-perl: does NBS also list virtual packages? because libb-size-perl still depends on perlapi-5.8.8
<ScottK> geser: Urgh.
<ScottK> I guess it doesn't.
<ScottK> Thanks for looking.
<NCommander> ScottK: I also got a HPPA account ;-)
<ScottK> Great.  BTW, Perl FTBFS on hppa last time.
<NCommander> yay
<NCommander> More fun ;-)
<NCommander> ScottK: probably the test is just taking an insanely long period of time. We have that issue with perl on m68k to the point we had to bump the timeouts
<NCommander> (the default m68k timeout is 12 hours)
 * ScottK says what the heck and subscribes to the firefox bug.
<liw> _the_ firefox bug? there's only one left?
<ScottK> liw: The one about the EULA.
<tacone> ScottK: if you need junk mail I can send you some without any kind of subscriptions
<tacone> no problem, really.
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah, well I finally had what I thought was a useful comment, so I added it and thought to see if there were replies.
 * tacone checking the useful one.
<savvas> hello! anyone with init.d packaging experience? I'm trying to run a bash script as a service, which I've done successfully, but it doesn't create the pid file in /var/run
<savvas> here's the file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~timekpr-maintainers/timekpr/trunk/annotate/8?file_id=timekpr.init-20080917152032-3674lebcfed9ceve-4
<savvas> (or trunk > folder testing > timekpr.init)
<sebner> huhu norsetto :)
<slytherin> geser: there?
<slytherin> geser: did you miss bug #269074?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269074 in cglib2.1 "Please sync cglib2.1 2.1.3.dfsg.2-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269074
<geser> slytherin: yes, I'm here
<geser> slytherin: I didn't ack it because I don't see changes worth syncing
<slytherin> geser: Ok. So do you think I should instead make a small ubuntu specific change to make it compiler with openjdk?
<geser> slytherin: does it need changing? the changelog doesn't mention anything about changing to openjdk?
<geser> slytherin: it looks it got stuck in Debian contrib due to dependencies
<slytherin> ahh, let me check again.
<slytherin> geser: right, aspectwerkz2 is still in multiverse in Ubuntu.
<slytherin> No point in syncing then. I shouldn't file sync requests in night. :-(
<verwilst> emgent: ping
 * directhex goes postal on bugs
<crimsun> \sh: Flash plugin also appears to need libxcb-render-util0 and its deps added to ia32-libs, too
<directhex> in before the lock!
<directhex> down from 47 open bugs to 18
<directhex> and now LP is down
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-18
<nhandler> Who should I talk to about an issue with lists.ubuntu.com?
<ScottK> nhandler: Probably #canonical-sysadmin, but probably not this time of day.
<nhandler> ScottK: What time would you suggest trying?
<ScottK> European work day.
<nhandler> Thanks for your help ScottK. I'll try and ask tomorrow before I leave the house for the day.
<Hobbsee> anyone feel like doing some ISO testing?
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: wireshark uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.  Please send the Debian maintainer an appropriate note via BTS.
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop: it FTBFS on Debian?
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Dunno.
<iulian> Good morning.
<ScottK-laptop> Anyone noticed any changes in Launchpad since the updated it?
<ScottK-laptop> I'm still waiting for the promised post on what's new.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: there is already a post
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Where?  The karma for code reviews one?
<nxvl> and the where is everyone one
<ScottK-laptop> That's it?
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: but, are you using edge?
<ScottK-laptop> Not generally
<nxvl> i mean, as in now that you don't find anything new
<ScottK-laptop> I do sometimes, but the new fonts and stuff have been leaking onto regular pages for a while.
<ScottK-laptop> I use edge if someone gives me an edge url, but that's it.
<ScottK-laptop> Mind you, I consider the roll out a new version and I don't notice anything good news.
<ScottK-laptop> It's pretty unusual for me to like the changes they do make.
<slangasek> ScottK-laptop: the fonts are smaller now
<slangasek> that's all I've noticed :)
<nxvl> and you have a map on your profile (i have it long ago)
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, the one that they thought it would be a good idea if everyone could move you around.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> it's horrible that other people can add your location
<ScottK-laptop> OK, so we're they day before a significant release milestone and they take our major system development tool down to give us the essential new features of:
<ScottK-laptop> 1.  New font
<nxvl> but it's nice to see a map with the info of the people in each team's page
<ScottK-laptop> 2.  Karma for functions rarely used in distro development
<ScottK-laptop> 3.  A map.
<ScottK-laptop> Glad to see all the important stuff's already fixed.
<StevenK> ScottK-laptop: So they'll get more sarcastic remarks from you if they implement other new stuff rather than say, signed PPAs?
<ScottK-laptop> Right.  Because we all know having maps in people's profiles is WAY more important than basic security.
<ScottK-laptop> Fortunately parody and criticism are generally protected actions.
 * ScottK-laptop just registered launchpadsucks.net
<ScottK-laptop> So now the question is will I do anything with it.
<jml> Incidentally, https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+milestone/2.1.9 might give you a better picture of what's changed in this release.
<ScottK-laptop> Well we have been repeatedly promised better notification of what's planned for Launchpad.  It continues not to happen.
<ScottK-laptop> jml: What on that list has actually been implemented?  That's milestoned, not done.
<jml> ScottK-laptop: everything with fix-committed was released today.
<persia> jml: "Fix Released" as well?
<ScottK-laptop> How are non-Launchpad people supposed to know that?
<jml> ScottK-laptop: maybe some of the others too (and maybe there were unforeseen problems that mean some fix-committed's weren't released)
<ScottK-laptop> So the page is inaccurate and irrelavant
<jml> ScottK-laptop: we'll be updating them to fix released over the next couple of days.
<jml> ScottK-laptop: ok. I was just trying to help.
<jml> persia: sure, those too.
<ScottK-laptop> jml: I understand that and it's not something personal towards you, but MOTU have been complaining for the two years I've been involved in the project that we are always suprised about what changes.
<jml> persia: "Fix Committed" means 'in trunk' and "Fix Released" means on launchpad.net.
<ScottK-laptop> jml: We get promises of advanced notice so we'll know what's coming, but with very few exceptions, it doesn't happen.
<persia> jml: And the current skew related to release is the lack of automatic hooks to transition states with release?
<jml> persia: partly.
<persia> jml: I don't have enough information to file the bug that would fix that.  When you have some time, could you file it and subscribe me?
<jml> persia: also, some of us like to make extra extra sure that a thing actually works before we mark it as 'fix released'
<jml> persia: I think I might have sometime in my first week at Canonical :)
<persia> Which bug?
 * jml looks
<jml> maybe I just complained about it :)
<ScottK-laptop> Also some of those that are marked fix committed have been released for quite some time.
<persia> Also, I think it'd be better to set "Fix Released", and then unset it to show that it was a regression in the Activity log, as a better means of communication.
<ScottK-laptop> Bug 252469 was released last week if not the week before.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252469 in soyuz "PPA delete packages should not require a reason" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/252469
<jml> ScottK-laptop: I find that difficult to believe -- maybe it was released on edge?
<jml> persia: there's bug 41702, 163694 and 163696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 41702 in malone "Allow mass changing of bugs' statuses" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41702
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 163694 in malone "Fix Committed/Released distinction is inconsistent and unproductive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 163696 in malone "Launchpad doesn't help in listing bugs fixed in a release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163696
<ScottK-laptop> jml: I don't use edge except if someone gives me an edge url (not relevant for PPA use)
<jml> ScottK-laptop: sure, but we didn't rollout two weeks ago :)
<ScottK-laptop> Well I did a bunch of PPA test uploads over the weekend and that bug was fixed.
 * jml shrugs
<jml> persia: none of those are quite it. (except maybe 163694)
<persia> jml: I think the distinction in 163694 is useful, but not used well for either LP or Ubuntu.  41702 would help with release, but it's more a need for a hook.  163696 is more about the milestone thing.
<ScottK-laptop> OTOH, only a small fraction of the activity in this release appears to have a significant relationship with distro development anyway.
<persia> jml: In Ubuntu, when someone uploads a patch, there is a means to mark it as fixing a bug.  When it is accepted and pushed to the public archives, Malone automatically marks the bug Fix Committed.  I'd like to see something similar for LP, but tuned to your workflow in some way.
<persia> Note that the patch doesn't always actually fix the bug, in which case the bug is reopened.
<jml> persia: all, well we have got bug 232429
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 232429 in launchpad-bazaar "please close bugs automatcially if commit log contains LP: #123456 magic" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232429
<jml> s/all/ahh/
<persia> jml: Hrm.  That's close, but wouldn't that close them on VCS-commit, rather than on push to either edge or lpnet?
<jml> persia: well, 'fix committed' when landed on trunk is already what we do, so this would automate it.
<jml> persia: but then there needs to be a 'fix released' transition, probably when the revision appears in a series.
<ScottK-laptop> jml: Which piece of Launchpad is responsible for the map and talking to Google about it?  i have a bug I want to make sure I get in the right place.
<jml> ScottK-laptop: couldn't say. filing on 'launchpad' is a safe bet: it'll get triaged swiftly.
<persia> jml: Yep, which is a combination of 163696 and 41702.
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  That's what I'll do.
<jml> persia: in general, that sort of stuff (although I would love it so much) is not currently a high priority for the code team.
<persia> jml: Bugs are bugs.  Once there are bugs, priorities can be discussed.  Let's not dissuade bugs because of previously existing priorities.
<jml> right :)
<jml> persia: just giving you a heads up :)
<ScottK-laptop> Looks like they managed to break the map thing when they released it somehow anyway.
<ScottK-laptop> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17714878/googleapi.png
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Do I need a FFe if a package sync  fix a FTBFS in Intrepid? (Bug #258667)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258667 in kwave "[sync Request] Dependency problem in Intrepid: Kwave" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258667
<slangasek> you need a FFe for things that break the freeze on features
<slangasek> which may or may not be the case for a given sync
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: How does syncing from Debian fix that problem?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Also does the new upstream release have any new features in it?
<ScottK> If the answer to the 2nd question is yes, then you need an FFe.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: Debian changed the dependencies in control file, so the package now builds successfully
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> So if it's just a bugfix release, then no, but if it has new features, then yes.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: OK: I'll have a look to upstream changelog, to check if there are new features
<wgrant> I don't need to request a FFe for a release that has only one new feature that only affects BSDs, do I?
<RAOF> I'm not really sure of the answer to that.  I'd lean towards 'yes', but not by much.
<wgrant> It consists of adding '#if(n)def __FreeBSD__', basically.
<persia> I'd say "no", as it doesn't include any user-visible features.
<wgrant> The binary change for us will be zero.
<RAOF> In which case, I'd say "no" :)
<wgrant> Right, thanks.
<RAOF> persia: Is FeatureFreeze about user visible features, or about minimising bugs (on the basis that new features are likely to be buggier)?
<persia> RAOF: Yes.
<persia> In this case, we're not even going to compile the code path with the new feature, so I don't see it being relevant.
<RAOF> Right.  But in another case, if there was an extensive new feature which only applied to BSD, a FFe may be appropriate?
<persia> I suppose it depends on the definition of "feature".
<persia> To me, it means something the user is able to do with the software that they were previously unable to do, or did in a significantly different way.
<persia> So, anything that doesn't change the behaviour of the application doesn't count as a feature to me.  That said, I'm not one of the people responsible for the official definition.
<asomething> Hey, all. I've got a question on versioning. The package was synced from debian (0.5.6-1) then rebuilt due to a lib transition (0.5.6-1build1). What would be the correct version for a new ubuntu specific change. 0.5.6-1ubuntu1? dch -i suggests 0.5.6-1build2, but as it's not just another rebuild, that can't be right
<ajmitch> -1ubuntu1
<asomething> ajmitch:  thanks
<Laibsch> good morning!
<Laibsch> Why is it that dpkg-source on ubuntu includes .git and on debian it does not?  How can I get the debian command to include the .git directory?
<persia> Laibsch: Does this apply to the same exact .dsc file?
<Laibsch> persia: no .dsc file
<Laibsch> I am trying to create those
<Laibsch> "dpkg-source -b gnucash.git/"
<Laibsch> On debian gnucash.git/.git/ will not be included in the orig.tar.gz that is being created by dpkg-source
<Laibsch> on ubuntu it is included
<persia> Oh.  Probably just a missing patch in Ubuntu then.  .git isn't supposed to be in there.
<persia> Try using the -i -I options to make it go away.
<\sh> crimsun: already in I just need to test
<AnAnt> Hello, I'm almost done with the new version for sl-modem, but I dunno if it fixes all the bugs in Debian/Ubuntu or not
<persia> AnAnt: While fixing *all* the bugs is always a goal, fixing many of the bugs is also good.
<AnAnt> persia: well, I dunno if it fixes any of the bugs or not, I only know that it fixes the bug I encountered and the bugs saying please package the new upstream
<AnAnt> but I think that I put it in good shape, it uses quilt now , making patch management easier
<persia> You might try to get some users with the affected hardware to test the result.
<Laibsch> persia: Actually, in my case, it is the other way round.  I want .git to be included
<Laibsch> Although I understand that generally it should be excluded
<AnAnt> great idea
<AnAnt> how do I adopt a package in Debian ?
<persia> Laibsch: Why?  Generally, if you want to track a VCS, you want to have a packaging VCS listed in debian/control, and if that is linked to an upstream VCS, that belongs in the packaging VCS, not in the orig.tar.gz.
<persia> AnAnt: File an ITO bug against it.
<persia> Err.  ITA.
<Laibsch> persia: OK, let's see if that would work
<Laibsch> do you have an example package config?
<AnAnt> persia: I mean, to file an ITA bug, it should be filed against an existing (orphaning) bug or so, isn't it ?
<persia> AnAnt: I'm not sure if you retitle the orphaning bug or if you file a new bug.  You probably want to ask in a Debian channel on OFTC.
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> persia: do you know how I can find the orphaning bug ?
<persia> AnAnt: I don't remember exactly.  I think it's a wnpp bug, but I'm not sure.
<karooga> morning all.
<Laibsch> persia: Unfortunately, I don't think that works
<Laibsch> because of peculiarities in gnucash's build system
<Laibsch> Without a .git or .svn directory, the build system goes into "tarball-mode", but tarball mode presumes a couple of files to present which are only created by "make dist".  make dist depends on ./configure having run.  ./configure is the file doing the switching between tarball mode and svn mode.  a vicious circle.
 * persia has long ago lost any refrent for "that"
<persia> Oh.  Can't you just patch that away, or have debian/rules call things in the right order?
<Laibsch> I'd rather not reinvent the wheel
<Laibsch> If all I need is just to get dpkg-source include a simple directory
<Laibsch> This is not so much for release stuff as for regular testing of trunk
<Laibsch> I'd rather have that packaged
<persia> Yeah, but it's considered poor practice to have a VCS directory in the orig.tar.gz.
<persia> You could always generate your orig.tar.gz by hand, with tar.  No restrictions there.
<persia> Mind you, you'll probably get complaints about it if you ask anyone for review.
<Laibsch> I'm probably not going to put this up for review
<Laibsch> and yes, I could build the tar by hand
<Laibsch> But I want to eliminate manual steps as much as possible
<persia> Then script the manual tar creation :)
<Laibsch> "git svn fetch;pdebuild" is really what I want to do
<Laibsch> persia: Actually, creating the tar won't help
<persia> Well, you could set debian/rules to work around the upstream broken build system, and then it's just `git svn fetch; debuild -S`
<Laibsch> reason?  see above under vicious circle
<persia> Yes.  This can be fixed.
<Laibsch> how? please help
<persia> Change ./configure to not do that.
<Laibsch> well, eventually, I'll end up rewriting all of gnucash
<persia> Certainly, but start with the bits that are causing you pain :)
<Laibsch> which is not something I'm skilled enough to do although there are tons of things bothering me
<Laibsch> persia: there is lots of things bothering me
<Laibsch> and believe me, dpkg-source refusing to include a dir I absolutely want is causing me pain
<Laibsch> and it would likely be much faster to fix than messing with gnucash
<persia> Personally, if I just wanted to play with an upstream snapshot, I'd pull upstream VCS, and run make dist, and then build the source package.
<Laibsch> persia: I'll want to do this regularly
<persia> Yes, but you're not supposed to want that directory :p
<Laibsch> Otherwise, I'd just not package stuff at all
<Laibsch> which is also an option
<persia> Sure.  ~/bin/update-gnucash:
<persia> #! /bin/sh
<persia> git svn fetch
<persia> make dist
<persia> debuild -S
<Laibsch> nice thought
<persia> ^D
<Laibsch> your are missing something
<Laibsch> that requires all build time deps
<Laibsch> and I don't necessarily want that or can ensure that
<persia> Then patch the build system to be sane.
<Laibsch> on boxes I use for compiling but where I don't have root
<persia> (and apt-get build-dep gnucash ought ensure that)
<Laibsch> if you are root
<persia> Sure, but how can you compile something if you aren't root?  For that matter, how can you run pbuilder if you aren't root?
<Laibsch> sudo
<persia> If you just need a chroot in which you have root, and you have access to pbuilder, use pbuilder --login or something.
<persia> Then in the chroot, you can run apt-get build-dep gnucash.
<persia> And do anything else you like.  At the end, you have a source package.
<persia> You can even script the whole thing.
<Laibsch> I still think it would be alot easier to get the dir included even if that is not good practice
<Laibsch> and as far as broken is concerned
<Laibsch> I guess ti is
<Laibsch> but I cannot judge
<Laibsch> and I don't think I can fix it
<persia> Perhaps.  dpkg-source -b is *not* a recommended way to build source packages anyway.  While it sometimes works, it's prone to cause issues with unclean source.
<Laibsch> the reason is to include only the minimal necessary information in the repo and autogenerate stuff
<Laibsch> but quite likely their stuff is just plain weird and broken
<Laibsch> they have too much of an ego and blurred vision to accept it oftentimes
<Laibsch> unfortunately, I am without an alternative mostly
<Laibsch> I have been trying to get this into usable shape for over a year now
<persia> Right.  On the other hand, you now have root access to intrepid chroots on your build boxes, so you can work around them.
<Laibsch> which is also the reason I want frequent builds from trunk
<Laibsch> working inside pbuilder chroots is going to be major pain, too, I think
<Laibsch> I don't mean to sound like a dork
<Laibsch> But consider the following scenario
<Laibsch> no root access whatsoever, not even via sudo pbuilder
 * persia works almost exclusively within chroots, so may not be inclined to agree
<Laibsch> but a launchpad account
<Laibsch> if the build system where sane (or dpkg-source could be made to work the way I want it) the following would be possible
<Laibsch> "git svn fetch;debuild -S"
<Laibsch> upload the result to the launchpad autobuilders and be happy
<Laibsch> with the stuff you are suggesting this will not work
<Laibsch> which is why I don't consider it the proper thing
<persia> I guess.  You could always abuse a PPA.  Create a fake source package that generates the source package you want.
<persia> Essentially, you'd create a source package that contained the tarball from svn export.
<persia> The debian/rules would unpack this source, debuild -S, grab the results, and install it in /usr/src.
<persia> The resulting binary package would contain the source package you wanted, and you could upload that to your PPA.
<persia> Just remember that your helper package needs to build-depend on everything required to build your source package.
<persia> You also add a stanza to your helper package that automates the pull from svn, and creation of the upstream tarball to be put in a source package.
<Laibsch> uff
<Laibsch> sounds complicated
<Laibsch> but possibly a solution
<Laibsch> although I have not yet fully understood it
 * RAOF is coming in late here.
<RAOF> You want to build git snapshot packages, yes?
<Laibsch> welcome ROAF
<Laibsch> RAOF: sort of, but the situation is a bit complicated
 * RAOF presses his one-button "update the nouveau ppa" script.
<Laibsch> ROAF: I regularly want to package gnucash for personal use
 * persia defers to RAOF, who tends to have better workarounds for this sort of thing
<Laibsch> thanks, persia
<Laibsch> ROAF: Without a .git or .svn directory, the build system goes into "tarball-mode", but tarball mode presumes a couple of files to present which are only created by "make dist".  make dist depends on ./configure having run.  ./configure is the file doing the switching between tarball mode and svn mode.  a vicious circle.
<Laibsch> that is essentially the problem
<RAOF> Urgh.
<Laibsch> various solutions have been proposed, but they either plain don't work or don't do what I need
<Laibsch> RAOF: exactly
<RAOF> So, you can just keep the .git directory around.  Alternatively, you can work out what it looks for in the git directory, and fake it.
<Laibsch> RAOF: I'd like to keep the git directory
<RAOF> And possibly complain bitterly to upstream :)
<Laibsch> They're deaf when it comes to complains
<Laibsch> t
<Laibsch> They've heard it for years
<RAOF> Then keep the git directory.  It'll trigger at least one lintian warning, but your objective isn't an archive-ready package.
<Laibsch> They believe it's right
<Laibsch> ROAF: exactly
<Laibsch> The problem is that I have two build machines
<Laibsch> One is VERY slow and running ubuntu ;-)
<Laibsch> dpkg-source apparently keeps the .git directory on that machine
<Laibsch> I have another build machine, very fast and running debian
<Laibsch> dpkg-source will not keep the .git directory, no matter what I do
<Laibsch> on debian
<persia> Laibsch: It's not safe to depend on the Ubuntu behaviour.  That will be patched away soon enough.
<Laibsch> yes
<RAOF> So, that appears to be the behaviour of "dpkg-source -i" - is that being passed?
<Laibsch> which is why I'd be happy if ROAF knew about a way to force inclusion of the .git dir
<Laibsch> RAOF: I tried with and without -i switch, no change
<Laibsch> dpkg-source -iblahdeblah -b gnucash.git
<Laibsch> .git not included
<RAOF> What version source package is it?  1.0?  3.0?
<Laibsch> there is some mention of 1.0, I believe
<Laibsch> How do I check or change?
<Laibsch> dpkg-source: info: using source format `1.0'
<RAOF> Right.  So... dunno.
<Laibsch> dpkg-source on ubuntu says nothing
<RAOF> You could always hack around it by moving .git to reallygit and then moving it back at the start of the build.
<pythonic> hi.. i'm filing a Needs Packaging bug.. how do i answer "in what package did you find this bug?"
<persia> pythonic: Leave it blank.
<pythonic> k. and just the package description in the "further information" field?
<persia> And license and upstream link, and what not.  There's a good example on the wiki.
<Hobbsee> \sh: is 271392 fixed for f-nonfree now too?
<\sh> bug 271392
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271392 in ia32-libs "Unable to install flashplugin-nonfree -- libxcb-render-util.so.0 not found" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271392
<\sh> Hobbsee: yes...
<\sh> bah...I missed that
<Hobbsee> \sh: cool :)
<\sh> bah the flashplugin...that wasn't the problem...and now I have to close them manually
<Hobbsee> \sh: only some of them are that issue
 * Hobbsee marks one invalid, due to using a non-ubuntu package.
<\sh> Hobbsee: na...
<\sh> Hobbsee: if it's the new flashplayer-plugin with the list of libs...just mark them fix released...new flashplayer10 will come in time
<Hobbsee> \sh: there's a debconf thing for others.
 * Hobbsee dupes a few.
<elky> Hobbsee, see -devel plzkthx
<stdin> ^ was just about to poke Hobbsee about that ^
<Hobbsee> elky: the lawyer questions?
<Hobbsee> oh
<elky> no, the idiot
<Hobbsee> helps when i scroll down
<elky> yep
<Hobbsee> \sh: out of general curiosity, why didn't you use libxcb-render-util0?  it contains the library it's whining about.
<\sh> Hobbsee: I used it
<\sh> Hobbsee: it's in ubuntu13 now
<Hobbsee> \sh: ah right.  For some reason, I only checked what I currently had installed.
 * Hobbsee is still trying to delve through this list of bugs, which really should be on the iso tracker.
<\sh> Hobbsee: ubuntu13 just reached the buildds imho..and should be available soon on the mirrors
<Hobbsee> \sh: great :)
<\sh> it's really a beast
<\sh> Hobbsee: bug #270358 is a nice one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270358 in ia32-libs "ia32-libs will not install when libcap1 is installed" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270358
<Laibsch> OK, I was actually successful in making the gnucash build system believe it was being compiled from svn
<Laibsch> now I hit the next bug
<Laibsch> http://rafb.net/p/gs728n29.html
<Laibsch> How come pbuilder gets a permission denied for "mkdir -p /usr/share/gnucash"?  It should be running inside its chroot with full root privs?
<Laibsch> line 26f
<azeem> Laibsch: it shouldn't
<azeem> I wonder why gnucash would want to create that directory during configure-stamp
<\sh> shouldn't be  the right dir : $DESTDIR/usr/share/gnucash when building through debian/rules?
<Laibsch> well, the build system of gnucash is strange
<Laibsch> \sh: I thought of that
<\sh> Laibsch: can you pastebin the debian/rules?
<Laibsch> sure
<Laibsch> it is a variation of the official debian debian/rules
<Laibsch> \sh: http://rafb.net/p/dTngIM26.html
<azeem>  mkdir -p /usr/share/gnucash
<\sh> Laibsch: try: mkdir -p `pwd`/debian/temp/usr/share/gnucash :) in line 29 of your paste
<azeem> that is wrong
<\sh> Laibsch: try: mkdir -p `pwd`/debian/tmp/usr/share/gnucash :) in line 29 of your paste
<azeem> Laibsch: why did you need to add it at that point anyway?
<\sh> that's better
<Hobbsee> \sh: that's been reopened, too :-\
<\sh> Hobbsee: you mean this lib32cap1 thingy?
<Hobbsee> \sh: yeah
<Laibsch> actually, that was a left-over from previous troubleshooting :-)
<\sh> Hobbsee: I set it to invalid yesterday...and I wrote also now something to him, for explanation...
<verwilst> hi emgent
<verwilst> i will send you the email ;)
<Laney> What the
<Laney> Someone is marking needs-packaging bugs as affecting feisty/gutsy-backports
<Hobbsee> Laney: ....interesting.
<wgrant> What's wrong with that?
<persia> While I don't see any issue with having a needs-packaging bug affect backports, I'd think the best path forward was to get the packaging done before trying to test a backport.
<Laney> There's nothing to backport - he reported the n-p bugs yesterday and made them affect backports too
<Laney> It's spammed me with a lot of bugmail
<persia> Yeah, if there's nothing to backport, it's probably premature.
<Laney> http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6177/bmhp9.png
<therealjosh> Hello, I have recently created an application, its in GTK and its a budgeting program. I was thinking of trying to get it into jaunty as i knew intrepid was frozen. I was told to ask here.
<\sh> motu-release: please take a peak on ubuntu-devel...pls...and say what you think about a UVE for flashplugin-nonfree :)
<Hobbsee> \sh: erk.
<\sh> Hobbsee: erk=no, erk=I don't care, erk=yes? ,)
<Hobbsee> \sh: how much does it fix, vs how much does it break?
<\sh> Hobbsee: with ia32-libs in place...it works...the new version is rc2 ... so we need to get the final through -updates after intrepid release
<\sh> Hobbsee: but for now...we should push rc2 to intrepid...
<Hobbsee> \sh: i think that would be reasonable + would agree in principle to the final in -updates - although I have little (read:  no) control there.
<\sh> hobbsee: I'll do some UVE magic on LP ;) should -release decide :)
<pochu> is there any script to know if any/what dependencies of a package are in multiverse?
<Laney> My god, a whole page of emails from that guy
<persia> pochu: You may find the debcheck output useful for some packages, although not all.
<persia> pochu: The other trick is to set up an apt-cache without multiverse, and try to install the package.
<psyke83> hi, I converted bug #257403 into a FFe request, can someone let me know if I need to provide additional information in the report?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257403 in flashplugin-nonfree "[Intrepid] FFe request for Flash 10 RC2 (10.0.12.10)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257403
<pochu> persia: I've done an 'apt-cache madison `list of packages` | grep -v main | grep -v universe. Thanks for your suggestion anyway
<persia> pochu: That works too :)
<ScottK-laptop> pochu: That won't get build-deps.
<persia> ScottK-laptop: It depends on how `list of packages` is generated.
<ScottK-laptop> True.
<pochu> ScottK-laptop: unless `list of packages` contains both depends and build-depends ;)
<ScottK-laptop> Right.
<norsetto> pochu: re. bug 268914: if the whole purpose is to move this (and other stuff) to universe just patch it so, no need to update it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268914 in javassist "[FFE] Please sync javassist 1:3.8.1-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268914
<Laibsch> In what variable is the topdir of the source code to be ompiled stored in pbuilder?
<Laibsch> I need to "cd $topdir;$do_something;cd -"
<Laibsch> looking for the right string for $topdir
<RainCT> Laibsch: $(CURDIR)
<RainCT> (not sure if that's what you mean)
<RainCT> s/mean/ask for
<Laibsch> thanks
<Laibsch> RainCT: Is $CURDIR exported to called processes such as a batch script?
<persia> pochu: Also, we're trying not to have any more Java MoveToMain bugs for intrepid.  There's still 10 in the pipeline, and the release team is likely to start having more critical things to chase.
<slytherin> persia: pochu: norsetto: I will patch the ubuntu version itself. I haven't got enough time in last few days. Should find some time on weekend.
<persia> slytherin: Sorry.  Didn't know it was one of the listed bugs (I should check the list next time)
<slytherin> no issues.
<norsetto> slytherin: thx
<pochu> btw I have no interest in them, I just ACK'd a sync request which changelog entry said it was moved to main in Debian, so I checked if it could be moved in Ubuntu too but it was blocked by 268914, so I left a comment there for completeness
<pochu> s/which/whose/ ?
<RainCT> Laibsch: $(CURDIR) is available in debian/rules, if you call scripts from there then no, unless you pass it to them or include them into the current environment (by prepeding a ". " to the call)
<ScottK-laptop> persia: I've read the Java multiverse -> universe bugs and support them, but have very limited time before I leave on vacation tomorrow.  Feel free to copy/paste this into each of them as my motu-release ack for those bugs.
<persia> ScottK: I'll review which of the MoveToMain bugs were also FFe bugs, and paste.  Thanks!
<persia> ScottK: Also, as I'll likely be asleep when you go: have a good vacation.
<ScottK-laptop> Thanks.
<Lamba> where is the correct place to request the motu team look into making a deb of some code ?
<Lamba> i see there's debs for ebox and 3-4 of its modules, but the ebox cvs has code for several others. one in particular, the soap module, would be handy in the ubuntu repos
<ScottK-laptop> Lamba: For Ebox, #ubuntu-server is probably the best place to discuss it.
<Lamba> rgr.
<iulian> Hmm, why don't you guys delete the revu-uploaders team from launchpad if it's not useful anymore?
<persia> Well, it could conceivably become useful again.  Let's wait until LP OpenID is working cleanly for everything before we drop it.
<iulian> Yea... that's an idea.
<Laibsch> maybe some of you remember my previous trouble with "mkdir -p /usr/share/gnucash/doc" in pbuilder?  I am trying to build gnucash from svn in pbuilder which is a bitch because of some of gnucash's peculiarities in the build system.
<Laibsch> I got a couple of steps further, but now I am back at the point I was trying to troubleshoot before wrt mkdir
<Laibsch> http://rafb.net/p/jsPLbs44.html is the diff for my rules file to the one from the debian maintainer
<Laibsch> http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/pbuilder.log is the output from pbuilder
<Laibsch> And there it is again
<Laibsch> test -z "/usr/share/gnucash/doc" || /bin/mkdir -p "/usr/share/gnucash/doc" /bin/mkdir: cannot create directory `/usr/share/gnucash': Permission denied
<Laibsch> How can that happen?  Isn't pbuilder running as root?
<Laibsch> why isn't the released package running into that problem (I tried that one with pbuilder and it completed fine as expected)?
<Laibsch> I grepped through the svn source but found no reference to install-exec-am
<azeem> Laibsch: I told you, it isn't running as root
<Laibsch> Oh, it isn't?
<azeem> eh
<azeem> 19:02 < azeem> Laibsch: I told you, it isn't running as root
<Laibsch> OK, sorry I missed that
<azeem> you're not allowed to create any files outside the directory where your source is
<stdin> isn't $DESTDIR set?
<Laibsch> I'm not sure
<Laibsch> I'd like to inspect the unpacked and configured source
<stdin> for the install rule, it should run "make install DESTDIR=<path to debian/package-name>"
<azeem> suspend the pbuilder process so you got time to investigate, maybe
<Laibsch> http://rafb.net/p/6Ccsjn41.html is the Makefile.  line 501 looks OK to me.
<Laibsch> So I wonder if DESTDIR is correctly set
<azeem> you have to set it
<Laibsch> Where?
<azeem> Laibsch: in debian/rules
<azeem> Laibsch: did you read the packaging guide?
<Laibsch> and why is that not necessary for the released package?
<Laibsch> azeem: Did you ever read it completely?
<Laibsch> To answer your question
<Laibsch> I never sat down to read it from a to z
<Laibsch> But I have looked things up frequently
<Laibsch> but I am no makefile guru
<azeem> +       LIBRARY_PATH=`pwd`/debian/tmp/usr/lib/gnucash:`pwd`/debian/tmp/usr/lib/gnucash/gnucash make install DESTDIR=`pwd`/debian/tmp
<azeem> that is in the Debian diff at least
<azeem> not sure which source you were basing on
<Laibsch> I was taking the debian directory from the released package and made some changes to it to make it compile from svn
<azeem> Laibsch: make a debdiff between your version and the released package
<Laibsch> as stated, http://rafb.net/p/jsPLbs44.html is the diff between my rules file and the one from Thomas Buschnell
<azeem> do you still have the build log?
<tuxmaniac> heya gang
 * tuxmaniac reports back after a really long time.
<persia> tuxmaniac: How is the new timezone?
<tuxmaniac> persia: cool. its switzerland :-) getting settled in the univ and the place
<tuxmaniac> i will be back with a bang again shortly. /me has met several gnu/linux folks here. In fact right on the first day there were these bunch of guys calling themselves gnu generation handing out ubuntu cds :-)
<persia> Excellent news indeed :)
<tuxmaniac> so expect a Swiss Bug jam shortly. :-)
<directhex> i'd prefer a swiss roll
<\sh> tuxmaniac: if you have time, just visit germany and especially karlsruhe ;) only a couple of hours by car away from you now in .ch ;)
<tuxmaniac> \sh: sure. I will be visiting folks at Hildesheim (close to Hanover) in a couple of months. will buzz you then ;-)
<\sh> tuxmaniac: hannover is just 4.5 hours away from me, far more north ;) you could stop at karlsruhe first ;)
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can someone check Bug #271630, to see if I missed something for a FFe request? Thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271630 in kwave "[sync Request] Kwave FTBFS in Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271630
<Laibsch> azeem: does http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/pbuilder.log have what you are looking for?
<directhex> when is the time to start worrying, w.r.t. missing intrepid, if a package hasn't been updated?
<\sh> directhex: on release day
<directhex> O_o
<geser> fabrice_sp: you missed the diff of the (upstream) CHANGES, the build log, install log and a summary of the testing you have done
<geser> fabrice_sp: I'm not sure if KDE3 will stay in intrepid, so will the package build and work with KDE4 too?
<fabrice_sp> geser: The upgraded one, yes. The older one, no
<fabrice_sp> But There is another bug (bug #258667) that prevent installation because of missing kcontrol
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258667 in kwave "Dependency problem in Intrepid: Kwave" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258667
<geser> fabrice_sp: I'm asking because the new Debian changelog for 0.7.11-1 mentions a build-dependency on kdelib4-dev which is KDE3 stuff
<Laibsch> azeem: I don't think the debdiff makes much sense.  It is 91M in size, mostly due to the underlying source.  Can I make a debdiff of just the debian directory?
<fabrice_sp> geser: I successfully built the new package in Intrepid (not the old one)
<fabrice_sp> geser: So I should try with dependencies on kdelibs5-dev?
<\sh> NCommander: did you succeed with a fix for ggz-grubby?
<geser> fabrice_sp: I believe you, some KDE3 packages are still available but I don't know for how long
<fabrice_sp> geser: (in case KDE3 doesn't stay in Intrepid)?
<geser> fabrice_sp: I don't know if it's that easy
<\sh> fabrice_sp: there is only a small portion of kde3 in intrepid...
<geser> \sh: do you know the plans for KDE3 in interpid? will it get removed completely?
<\sh> fabrice_sp: and I wonder if kwave can live with this small portion...I wouldn't think so...does kwave has some kde4 source available?
<\sh> geser: no...some packages like kdelibs4 are still used for (guessing knetwork manager?)
<NCommander> \sh: no, sorry
<NCommander> I'll look onto attacking that at some point this weekend
<fabrice_sp> geser & \sh: it seems that upstream is not available anymore (this is the last available version from upstream)
<fabrice_sp> (no answer since 6 month according to Debian log)
<\sh> fabrice_sp: talk to riddell about a removal of that stuff then...if they come back, we can include the package again...but we should get rid of this stuff (using kde3) ;()
<Laibsch> http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/debdiff-debian.txt is the 91M debdiff filtered down to what applies to debian/ with filterdiff.  azeem, looks unsuspicious to me
<\sh> NCommander: no worries...
<\sh> 91M debdiff?
<fabrice_sp> \sh: I'll just try a build  against kdelibs5, just in case. If no luck, I'll go for a source removal
<NCommander> 91MB?
<\sh> fabrice_sp: have fun :) I think it will fail because of a changed sound architecture...but we could be lucky :)
<NCommander> OW
<Laibsch> \sh: The debdiff between the 2.2.6 debian release and the stuff I am compiling from gnucash trunk.  55K due to changes in debian, 91M changes in the source
<fabrice_sp> \sh: glupsss
<Laibsch> the source changes are about the same size as the source itself
<\sh> Laibsch: that's a whole new upstream version ,-> or a complete rewrite ...whatever too much
<Laibsch> yes, too much for a debdiff
<Laibsch> but of course the packaging information is still valid
<Laibsch> mostly
 * directhex disagreed with debdiff where upstream changes are involved
<directhex> debdiff is fine from a previous ubuntu version or debian version, but it's a silly thing to mandate to say "look at the diff between 1.0.1beta3 and 8.76pro"
<directhex> completely useless metric
<Laibsch> yes
<Laibsch> agreed
<Laibsch> but it was requested here ;-)
<Laibsch> so I provided it
<sebner> DktrKranz: \o7
<sebner> DktrKranz: lag ,.. P
<DktrKranz> sebner, your script is buggy... -ETOOLAG and bogus "7"
 * sebner is now afk. fixing the script xD
 * DktrKranz is now afk, preventing sebner from fixing it
 * sebner is now afk from afk and preventing DktrKranz to prevent sebner from fixing it xD
<fabrice_sp> \sh: there is a version of kwave compatible with KDE 4 in kwave subversion repository, with a lot of changes, so I'll wait. How do I put on hold the sync request? I'm not able to unsuscribe "Ubuntu Sponsors for universe "
<fabrice_sp> (Bug #271630)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271630 in kwave "[sync Request] Kwave FTBFS in Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271630
<geser> fabrice_sp: u-u-s is unsubcribed from that bug now
<fabrice_sp> geser: thanks
<verwilst> emgent: ping
<azeem> Laibsch: this is the problem:
<azeem> -	make all
<azeem> -	make install
<azeem> +	make
<azeem> you run make install without further arguments, that is bound to fail
<azeem> Laibsch: the earlier diff of debian/rules you showed did not have this change
<handschuh> hi; how do I add file and directory-permissions via dh_install ?
<azeem> handschuh: I don't think you can, you'll have to run chmod afterwards I think
<azeem> or fix the upstream Makefile if they are wrong
<handschuh> ok, thanks
<Nutzebahn> Helo.
<mrbichel> Hello, i am interested in getting involved in ubuntu as a developer.
<pochu> hi mrbichel, check this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<mrbichel> thanks
<persia> mrbichel: Welcome :)
<persia> mrbichel: Please also ask any questions here as you contribute.
<mrbichel> thanks
<mrbichel> i signed up on launchpad. How much experience should i get myself before signing up for mentoring?
<persia> mrbichel: It depends on how you work best, and with what you seek mentoring.
<verwilst> hm
<verwilst> Subject: 	zabbix_1.6~ppa1_source.changes rejected
<verwilst> any help? :)
<verwilst> Rejected: Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution. Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
<persia> If you are the sort of person who works best with a one-on-one relationship, mentoring might be something you want sooner.  If you are the sort of person who works best with documentation and discussion with the community-at-large, you may not need mentoring at all.
<verwilst> i think i was still root when i started dput
<verwilst> and my .dput.cfg is under my normal user
<verwilst> could that be it?
<persia> verwilst: Could be.  Looks like you tried to upload to Ubuntu rather than a PPA.
<verwilst> "Already uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com"
<verwilst> i can't re-upload :(
<persia> You need to delete the .upload file.
<verwilst> persia: yeah.. how do i remove it?
<persia> You don't need to remove it: it was rejected already.
<persia> (where "it" means the upload to upload.ubuntu.com)
<verwilst> attempt 2 :P
<mrbichel> So generally you spot a bug you would like to fix and sign up yourself for it or sign up for mentoring on a specific project in order to get started developing?
<verwilst> should you see it appear right away on your ppa?
<verwilst> hm, i feel another rejection coming up
<verwilst> :P
<verwilst> rah!
<verwilst> again :(
<verwilst> same error message
<verwilst> grr i wanted to do a quick upload and go to bed
<verwilst> hm yes, it takes upload.ubuntu.com instead of ppa.launchpad.net
<verwilst> http://pastebin.ca/1205342
<verwilst> any ideas pretty please?
<ceekay> sorry i know this is a newbie question- there is a new version of a package upstream (makedumpfile) that i created a package for because i need it right away. seems like the nice thing to do would be to contribute that packaging to ubuntu for potential use... what is the best channel for doing do? contact the package maintainer?
<verwilst> rah!
<verwilst> forgot to add my ppa name
<persia> ceekay: The current practice is to file a bug against the package, requesting an update to the new upstream.  Add the "upgrade" tag to the bug, and attach the updated diff.gz.
<persia> For packages in main, you want to subscribe the "ubuntu-main-sponsors" team to request someone to review the changes and possibly upload.
<persia> Note that Ubuntu is currently in FeatureFreeze, so it may well be that this upgrade will not be accepted right now, or even for Ubuntu 8.10.
<Nutzebahn> Hello.
<Sneaky> Hello. :)
<Nutzebahn> Can anyone here make a deb package of megatunix or help me to? ./configure doesn't work.
<directhex> people are generally quite stretched. they won't do packaging for you without a very very good reason
<directhex> teaching you is another matter
<directhex> give a man a fish, etc etc etc
<Nutzebahn> :'(
<Nutzebahn> megatunix.sourceforge.net
<Nutzebahn> That program is worth creating a debian package for.
<Laney> If it's that worth it, then it's worth your time to learn how to do it ;)
<handschuh> Nutzebahn: did you follow http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?p=151941  ?
<directhex> Lamba, strangely, people seem ever so busy when you say "patches plz" to their own suggestions
<pochu> Nutzebahn: if you don't want to package it yourself, you can report a 'needs-packaging' bug at Launchpad and/or a RFP bug in bugs.debian.org. Hopefully somebody will see it and package it
<Nutzebahn> Ok.
<nxvl> nellery: how is your jurney going?
<nellery> nxvl, hi, I submitted a package upgrade a few days ago and the release team was subscribed
<nellery> still not sure if it will be uploaded
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> if not, at least you will learn something
<nellery> they asked for the upstream .diff, but no reply yet
<nxvl> i was more happy when someone rejects a patch or bug report from
<nellery> nxvl, yup, I certainly did learn lots with that
<nellery> any thoughts on what I should work on now?
<nxvl> since he pointed to my errors and learn something from that
 * persia recommends looking for unloved packages (no uploads in a while), and trying to patch bugs filed in launchpad.
<nxvl> nellery: still not a week, so keep up with the FTBFS
<nxvl> :D
<persia> Oh.  Those are good too :)
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> it's on the ones you more learn
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> nellery: secret tip, if you find a really hard one, ping NCommander
 * nxvl hides
 * NCommander smashs nxvl with the bookcase of doom
<nxvl> ouch
 * NCommander adds mono ontop
<nxvl> :(
<NCommander> <g>
 * nxvl HUGS NCommander 
<orly_owl> ow mono
<orly_owl> please not that
<orly_owl> ill do whatever you want
<persia> orly_owl: Fix all the outstanding bugs :p
<orly_owl> ok, bring on the mono
<persia> heh
<NCommander> So nxvl is a mindreader
 * DktrKranz suggest to remove mono, gnome, the whole archive and leave with bash only
<NCommander> or in a drunk suber, I chmodded my mind 777
<NCommander> Ah
<NCommander> DktrKranz,
<NCommander> :-)
 * NCommander has a bug for you
<DktrKranz> \o/
<NCommander> DktrKranz, please upload Ada fixes to -proposed
<DktrKranz> NCommander, which one was the first?
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> Link to bug please so I can remember
<DktrKranz> IIRC, they have a specific order
<DktrKranz> bug 268260
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268260 in music123 "GNAT 4.2 Transition Tracking Bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268260
<orly_owl> bug 1
<orly_owl> darn
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1/+text)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, highly libaws
<nxvl> did anyone know how backports work?
<nxvl> can i (as a MOTU) do universe-backports?
<NCommander> nxvl, MOTU can ack backports if they don't require source level changes, but only core-dev can do an actual backport (i.e., needs source changes)
<nxvl> or do i need core-dev status?
 * directhex coughs
<nxvl> well, in that sense only archive-admins can do backports
<NCommander> (and for an MOTU to ack a backport, they need to be a member of ubuntu-backports)
<directhex> mono's not hard, just misunderstood
<nxvl> DktrKranz: can you confirm that?
<nxvl> persia: or you?
<slangasek> mono is the kissing disease
<nxvl> NCommander: not that i don't belive you, but i still don't buy that
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> our release manager
<persia> I'm not a member of the backports team.
<DktrKranz> nxvl, I'm not in backporters, but I think you need ACK from ubuntu-backports
<nxvl> slangasek: you can confirm that
<NCommander> nxvl, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#Technical%20Information%20for%20Ubuntu%20Developers
<directhex> slangasek, you don't like kissing? :o
 * persia tries to be a member of as few teams as possible
<slangasek> directhex: I don't like diseases
 * NCommander hides the mono cannon
<directhex> slangasek, pfft, that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger
<directhex> well, except for multiple sclerosis. and aids.
<persia> Note that there have occasionally been non-MOTU members of the backporters team, but proven experts at backports testing and review.
<directhex> and a hurty knee
<slangasek> nxvl: I don't think that's correct; I don't see why the universe/backports would have an ACL that allowed only ubuntu-core-dev to upload to it
<NCommander> persia, I was told it is MOTU only now
<NCommander> directhex, I believe whatever doesn't kill us make us stranger
<persia> NCommander: I could believe that.  I suspect the policy became sane when jdong became MOTU.
<directhex> NCommander, fneeb fneeb moopleboop?
<slangasek> nxvl: but I have no first-hand knowledge
<persia> (he was the last non-MOTU backporter
<nxvl> slangasek: yep, i think the same
<NCommander> persia, I'm a backport tester, but I can't ack backports, which is reserved for ubuntu-backporters
<NCommander> Source level changes can only be uploaded by a core-dev unless the rules of changed
 * slangasek starts ubuntu-backpackers
<NCommander> s/of/has
<slangasek> NCommander: what's the source on that rule?
<NCommander> slangasek, wiki
<persia> slangasek: Is that those who carry, or those who engage in activities during which one usually carries?
<slangasek> oh, there was a second paragraph
<slangasek> persia: I was thinking of the cocktail
<persia> slangasek: Part of the way that the backports repos were constructed enforces that.
<slangasek> ok, I stand corrected
<persia> slangasek: Oh my.  That's an interesting blend.  I'm not sure why one adds orange juice though.
<slangasek> :-)
<directhex> for the interested and/or infected, the current plans in debian to shrink mono good 'n' proper are now written down, at http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20Transition
<NCommander> persia, I believe sanity is overrated
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-19
<directhex> mostly real figures for precisely what it means are in the section marked "Sample Mono20Transition Shrink" on http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/InstallSizeFormatted
<nxvl> i'm gone
<jdong> slangasek: the source-change backports only uploadable by core-dev rule was established by the tech board at the first backports meeting; Personally I'd like to see that changed s/core-dev/motu backporter/ but I won't cry too much if that can't be the case.
<slangasek> sure
<persia> NCommander: While it may not have much value in one's personal dealings, it's always safest to be sane when providing something to millions of people.
<directhex> (/me wonders if anyone will notice 17 meg of livecd space saved from tomboy, and savings in f-spot too)
<slangasek> directhex: <blink>
<NCommander> persia, point take. Sanity is a useful item, but like all good things, it must be used in moderation
<jdong> I agree with persia on this one. When we put things into a one-click trusted Backports repository we have a higher responsibility to only push sane reasonably low risk backports.
<jdong> with that said, I'd really like to take some time to revamp prevu a bit more (maybe into a GUI) for users to be able to make their own more aggressive backporting decisions more easily.
<NCommander> jdong, maybe you can simply turn prevu into a pbuilder wrapper with simple sanity checks
<jdong> NCommander: that is what it is at the moment
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> As you might surmise, I don't use prevu ;-)
<jdong> NCommander: it's a pbuilder with $dist-{updates,backports} main+universe+multiverse+restricted that inserts into an apt repo in sources.list
<jdong> NCommander: basically a lazy one-command prevu environment for backporters
<jdong> pbuilder*
<NCommander> heh
<pochu> night everyone
<persia> jdong: If you could make a quick GUI, it would make things simpler.  In the few cases I recommend backports, it's always a bit tricky to help people to do the backport compilation.
<NCommander> I just use DIST=hardy-backports pbuilder build *dsc*
<jdong> persia: agreed
<jdong> NCommander: prevu would be "(DIST=target_dist) prevu lp:packagename(/distro_if_not_intrepid)"
<persia> NCommander: Yes, but you're a developer.
<NCommander> Maybe it would be possible to have a one-click script that can generate an upload to the PPA< which also makes it available to other testers easily
<jdong> for those who are well versed in pbuilder the difference is trivial/nonvaluable
<NCommander> persia, oh, I know, I'd never recommend a developer use pbuilder
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> non-developer
<jdong> but for the beginners and non-developers we need to make prevu even friendlier
<jdong> and also be able for users to monitor their backported packages and track their status in intrepid
<NCommander> I dunno, the bar for prevu pretty low it seems
<jdong> probably even give the ability to share debdiffs for debian/control
<NCommander> Granted, my mom won't be able to use it, but my mom won't know what backports are either
<jdong> NCommander: telling someone to install prevu, run sudo prevu-init, then prevu packagname, then apt-get update, etc is still not trivial
<jdong> NCommander: that's not an ideal answer to "how do I get the latest pidgin?"
<directhex> slangasek, assuming ubuntu-desktop has similar figures to debian's gnome-desktop-environment --without-recommends, i think 20 meg sounds like a reasonable figure for total shrinkage in tomboy/f-spot's dependencies in jaunty. i haven't tested against an ubuntu install for a while, since it makes more sense for me to focus on "upstream" (i.e. debian), but my gut says 20 meg is a conservative safe number saved
<slangasek> directhex: I would be very happy to see that kind of savings. :)
<directhex> slangasek, it's all explained in those two wiki pages
<directhex> slangasek, it's mostlt applicable to debian
<persia> directhex: Ubuntu is also recommends-by-default now: while this may not impact the total size comparison, it will be a factor in the interdependencies of the split packages.
<directhex> persia, i know, but the confusion comes from debian NOT using recommends-by-default when installing from d-i (for one thing it excludes mono from debian desktops)
<directhex> persia, those numbers are WITH recommends (hence the silly install size quoted for banshee)
<directhex> persia, but a "clean" debian lenny system has gnome-desktop-environment WITHOUT recommends
<directhex> slangasek, sorry, mostly applicable to ubuntu
<persia> I'm confused.  I thought Debian was recommends-by-default before Ubuntu.  That d-i is special is odd.
<directhex> persia, very odd, but sadly true
<directhex> persia, the difference in gnome-desktop-environment's case is about a gig (!)
<slangasek> d-i is special because the package manager behavior changed in Debian while the Recommends were mostly crap
<slangasek> and joeyh/fjp didn't want to fight these one-by-one
<persia> Oh.  That's probably it then.  In Ubuntu, a couple people could go change all the Recommends, and would get stomped on when they broke the CD sizes.  For Debian, it's a more complex social process.
<pythonic> hi.. i've built a package for debian (build-depends: perl). what changes do i need to make to upload it to ubuntu?
<persia> pythonic: None.  Upload it to Debian, and it will be automatically included when the archive is again unfrozen.
<pythonic> persia: i have no sponsor there.. was looking to take this route instead :-)
<pythonic> (as recommended by http://newpeople.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html)
<persia> pythonic: Honestly, I suspect your chances are better to have something on mentors.d.n and an ITP than to try to get something into Ubuntu today.
<pythonic> i'm doing that too
<directhex> silly recommends example: banshee adds 100 meg on disk to a "clean" lenny system. "zomg!" you cry. but... banshee Depends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad, which Depends: libwildmidi0 which Recommends: freepats which is 33 meg on disk - 1/3 of banshee's apparently bloated file size pulled in by a recommends required for gstreamer's mini playback plugin to have some synth voices
<directhex> s/mini/midi/
<directhex> persia, wouldn't you recommend improving debian as the best route anyway? share the love!
<persia> For Ubuntu 9.04, REVU will open in November.  For putting a package through REVU rather than through Debian, the three main changes are the revision (-0ubuntu1 instead of -1), the bug closure (LP: #nnnnnn for a launchpad bug, instead of closes: #nnnnnn for a BTS bug), and the maintainer entry (packages in Ubuntu must have an @ubuntu.com maintainer, and teams are vastly preferred)
<pythonic> the package is http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=bucardo
<pythonic> (an asynchronous replication system for PostgreSQL)
<pythonic> persia: ok, thanks :-)
<slangasek> directhex: so, who's working on fixing libwildmidi0's recommends: ?
<persia> directhex: It depends on the package.  In many cases, I think going through Debian is the best route.  In some cases, I'm less certain.
<persia> slangasek: What's wrong with libwildmidi0's recommends?
 * persia is supposed to fix that if they are broken, but hadn't heard.
<directhex> slangasek, no idea. i mean, it makes sense really - libwildmidi0 is pretty useless without synth voices. the bigger question is, should gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad be split so you don't *need* midi playback support just to get at other plugins in bad?
<slangasek> persia: well, if libwildmidi0 recommends: freepats and pulls in 33MB that's not needed by most of the reverse-deps of libwildpats0, something ought to be fixed there.  Maybe banshee should be fixed not to depend on -bad, instead?
<slangasek> directhex: I guess we could move it from -bad to -worse ;P
<directhex> i suspect banshee wants libgstfaad, since it supports aac as a cd ripping format
<pythonic> persia: how do i get an @ubuntu.com address?
<directhex> maybe libgstreplaygain too. i'd need to check the source
<persia> slangasek: I'd go for either banshee not depending on -bad or -bad not including the wildmidi plugin (that could be a separate binary package).  Wildmidi is fairly useless without patches.
<nhandler> pythonic: You get an @ubuntu.com address when you become an Ubuntu member.
<slangasek> persia: that's fair
<persia> pythonic: Most people just work with a team to maintain the package, rather than being an individual maintainer.
<NCommander> jdong, speaking of backports, have you done anything about the spam to fiesty/gutsy backports trackers?
<directhex> slangasek, working on mono, i'm used to the idea of one-package-per-lib to help produce ultra-minimal dependency chains where possible. the dependencies needed to run tomboy on mono versus opensuse today (i.e. before 2.0 transition changes) are already more than 50% smaller in ubuntu.
<persia> slangasek: Note that wildmidi does *not* depend on fluid-soundfont-gm in the hopes of not being impossible to download.
<pythonic> is there a list of maintainers/teams?
<directhex> slangasek, it's not THAT much work if a good dh_ script exists to track those deps for you in debian/control
<directhex> persia, 145 meg on disk just for synth voices would take the piss just a bit
<slangasek> directhex: wow, Suse's mono deps for tomboy are /twice/ the size of Ubuntu's?
<persia> pythonic: There are lots of lists, but none that are both comprehensive and correct.  Most people just work with the MOTU team for packages in universe (and you're in the right channel for that team).
<persia> directhex: That's what I thought :)
<directhex> slangasek, more. suse has a monolithic package, mono-core. every lib (2 versions thereof, for .net {1,2}.0, and all deps of those libs
<directhex> as well as runtime etc
<directhex> ubuntu's 80 binary packages from 1 source package might seem excessive, but it means tiny disk use by comparison
<persia> 80 binary packages!  Now I understand why you thought there could be an improvement in the way the JRE was distributed in terms of required size on install.
<NCommander> o_o;
<directhex> well, 79
<directhex> more after the 2.0 transition
<persia> Oh.  That's not so bad then
<Fagballs> Oh crap, i'm still in here.
<Fagballs> ...
<Fagballs> ...eh.
<persia> The trick when having thoughts is to hold the fingers motionless :)
<directhex> persia, but give http://www.meebey.net/jaws/?gadget=Blog&action=SingleView&id=Hello_World_how_small_can_you_get a read: "hello world" in mono in debbuntu is <4.5M on disk, how much for java? the splitting means only the very basics are needed for that - the jitter and enough of the class library to print hello world.
<pythonic> persia: ok. i'd need to find a maintainer before i can upload the package to revu?
<persia> directhex: Right, but you can use MOTU, which makes finding a maintainer fairly easy.  The hard part is that only exceptional new packages will even be reviewed before November.
<directhex> pythonic, ^^
<persia> That's why I encourage you to keep chasing Debian sponsorship (maybe once squeeze opens).
<persia> directhex: Sorry: was distracted whilst planning a reply :)
<directhex> persia, but it actually scales. gtk# app "graphmonkey", even before the 2.0 transition, pulls in 14.4 meg on disk including the app and the entire framework needed to run it. how much space does a typical gui java app need, including the runtime?
<NCommander> jdong, out of curosity, when was the backporters must be MOTU rule was established?
<jdong> NCommander: also at the same time (TB officialization of backports)
<NCommander> ah I see
<jdong> NCommander: the non-MOTU exception was myself, as kicking the founder of the backports team off wasn't logical, nor was magically making me MOTU at the time
<NCommander> persia, oh, they annouced the new name for lenny+1?
<jdong> NCommander: at the time I wanted to solely dedicate myself to backports work so I held off on MOTU apprenticeship
<persia> directhex: I see the point.  Getting down from ~100MB to even ~20 would be nice.  Of course, it needs someone to do it :)
<NCommander> yeah, I understand that :-)
<directhex> persia, no, i'm not volunteering ;)
<NCommander> I just fear, especially in light of kirkland's MOTU application that any attempt to get MOTU will get rejected due to lack of Universe uploads :-/
<persia> NCommander: There are plenty of universe FTBFS if you just want universe uploads.
<NCommander> persia, true, but I think its silly to require high numbers of universe uploads if there are uploads to main
<NCommander> Because people who apply straight to core-dev run into the opposite problem, that they aren't an MOTU
<directhex> persia, i'm just providing full disclosure which will hopefully benefit debbuntu - meanwhile though, i think it's safe to say mono in the clear in any mono-vs-java arguments wherever the topic of bloat is mentioned ;)
<NCommander> debbuntu? Thats a new one
<ceekay> persia: thanks for the explanation. filed bug 271956 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271956 in makedumpfile "Upgrade to new upstream version 1.2.9" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271956
<directhex> NCommander, as opposed to rpm dists like susehat
<persia> directhex: I'm not someone who generally promotes x vs. y unless yada is concerned.
<persia> NCommander: I don't see why those going straight to core dev need be MOTU, personally.
<NCommander> persia, and those who grant core-dev don't understand why they don't have MOTU
<persia> NCommander: Do you have an example of this?
<NCommander> persia, yes, I can find it on -devel's archives
<directhex> persia, well, no. our focus on the debian mono team is a stable platform for apps, first & foremost. but it would be nice if a best-of-breed app being java didn't mean 3-figure increases in livecd space requirements, for all concerned - it would be a terrible shame if a best-of-breed app were passed over for something inferior for something as mundane as space requirements
<persia> directhex: For the most part I agree, although if something is truly best-of-breed, and nobody can be bothered to figure out how to get it to also fit on a CD, I have to question the importance of the breed.  See above about my decision to not push for proper soundfont support before adding wildmidi.
<jdong> well.. the java runtime doesn't exactly use its extra space storing family photo backups of java devs... their "base" API is larger.
<slangasek> I think that underestimates the impact of space requirements on the total user experience; writing each of your desktop apps in a different language, with a different runtime, affects things like virtual memory usage and integration, too.
<slangasek> "40MB of libraries on disk that nothing else uses" =~ "40MB of libraries in memory that aren't shared between process", e.g.
<slangasek> +es
<directhex> and it doesn't help that java's a memory hog. (sorry, but that one's just true, check shootout.alioth.debian.org)
<directhex> actually... slangasek, reckon thats WHY java seems to do badly in the memory dept in the shootout? or at least part of it?
<slangasek> it's a part of it, yes
<directhex> so splitting java would help. hm
<jdong> don't they also only test the server mode of the JVM?
<jdong> where the garbage collector is more lazy?
<directhex> like persia says though, the lines are less clear in java as to what can be split where
<slangasek> directhex: splitting the java libraries wouldn't help for that, if the JVM is only loading those jars actually referenced by the program in question
<directhex> jdong, -server or -Xint
<slangasek> although, the fact that Java libs are generally not mmap()able can't help performance
<jdong> directhex: err... that doesn't sound fair
<jdong> so either the one that takes a decade to JIT or the one that's interpreted bytecode?
<jdong> but anyway, this is completely off topic from your discussion
<persia> jdong: We're using HotSpot now which does a bit of both, so that's an outdated comparison (at least for some architectures)
<jdong> persia: who's "we"? as in Ubuntu with OpenJDK?
<persia> jdong: Also Debian with OpenJDK.  "we" being the Java Team (I can speak for Ubuntu Java Team, and a number of members of Ubuntu Java Team are also members of the Debian Java team)
<jdong> persia: gotcha, understood; I was merely pointing out that they seemed to start the JVM with an unusual dichotomy of flags that they didn't subject mono or any other framework to.
<jdong> i.e. I didn't see them turn off the JIT to mono or force it to --aot fully.
<directhex> we don't ship mint, but it looks like the shootout is using mono from some upstream tarball
<jdong> "is we don't ship the crippling option" really a valid excuse for enabling it on another language?
<directhex> don't look at me, i don't run the shootout
<persia> jdong: Oh.  I hadn't really considered the shootout.  I'm more in favour of supporting upstreams language choices, and letting users decide what to run than comparing languages.  That said, I'd ideally like to see everything in C, just to reduce the number of loaded libraries.
<directhex> i'm just saying, we don't ship mint
<persia> (but that day is *long* past)
<directhex> persia, i'd rather write an app in an afternoon than fight c for a week
<jdong> uh oh full-out language wars now
<ceekay> serious
<jdong> I really hate getting into this whole performance-of-languages shootout topic... it always gets touchy and blurry really fast...
<directhex> performance IS a silly metric when you're talking about clicky gui apps though
<persia> directhex: From the libary loading perspective for optimised performance on minimal hardware, I can't support that position.  From the developer perspective, I understand: hence my comment that I'm in favour of supporting upstream language choices.
<directhex> who'd notice  a 20% speed drop in gedit?
<persia> Probably mousepad users.
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> anyone who doesn't have a fast computer
<jdong> and it's probably not a 20% speed drop either.
<directhex> how do you speed up apps which spend 99% of their time waiting for user input?
<jdong> it's probably a 20% average drop with big spikes here and there.
<jdong> directhex: by making that 1% of the time they process really fast.
<jdong> i.e. by the garbage collector not running when the user clicks save, by not spending 3000 cycles unwinding an exception stack, etc...
<persia> Anyway, it's not worth having this discussion here.  We would do best to make sure that all the applications we have work as well as they can, and to help the flavour developers in their selection of an appropriate set of applications to meet their users' needs.
<directhex> jdong, how much developer effort is that 1% worth, though? i suppose that's the question. and i think that depends on the scenario. i'd rather write my apps in c#, but i appreciate libavcodec having crunchy hand-optimized assembler sections to make my transcoding not suck
<directhex> persia, you're right, of course
<jdong> directhex: don't get me wrong, I agree with you personally on reasons to choose higher-level languages at the cost of performance but benefit of development time
<jdong> but still it doesn't provide the basis to brush off people who are performance-conscious
<persia> directhex: But I wasn't before: I inadvertantly put on a flavour developer hat here, and got the language wars all started up again :)
<directhex> persia, emacs!
<jdong> I feel I'm the only vim supporter over here.
<jdong> I am a vim user in a pool of emac zombies.
<slangasek> directhex: it's not a silly metric, it's just not the only metric
 * ScottK likes vim.
<directhex> i'm a bare-faced liar. i'm too dumb to use vim OR emacs, and just use nano
<persia> directhex: Precisely. That's not a good choice for either of the flavours with which I am involved, but many people like it, and it's probably a good choice for them.
<jdong> of course, going to the school where emacs was written doesn't help.
<persia> jdong: I find the amount I use emacs is directly proportional to my distance from Kenmore Square.
<slangasek> the emacsachusetts institute of technology?
<directhex> bedtime.
<jdong> slangasek: yeah, that place.
<coppro> slangasek: no, the eMASSACHUSETTS Institute of TEcHNolOGY
<jdong> they use the silly s/U/V/ font....
<slangasek> coppro: what's wrong with your shift key?
<slangasek> jdong: I'm still amazed at the idea that an OS I helped produce is now the basis for Project Athena
<coppro> slangasek: My shift key? It's the Caps Lock key that's the problem :P
<coppro> Project Athena?
<jdong> slangasek: yeah I'm psyched for the Hardy release :)
<jdong> coppro: the MIT AFS/Kerberos/Linux based operating system that runs on over 90% of the public computer stations on campus
<coppro> ah, cool
<coppro> jdong: really? I'm waiting for Intrepid, myself
<jdong> coppro: the next release of Athena due in 2 months is based off a modified Ubuntu Hardy
<coppro> ah, I see
<coppro> I thought you meant you were waiting for Intrepid and thought it was Hardy
<jdong> coppro: nah, I'm waiting to figure out how to swap alt and meta with this fancy new input device system
<coppro> xmodmap?
<jdong> coppro: that doesn't work for me anymore
<coppro> :(
<NCommander> jdong, the guy smashing up the backport bug trackers has been banned
<jdong> good to hear
<NCommander> I'm now asking the LP status to undo the damage
<pythonic> hi.. i have created a package.. do i subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the "needs packaging" bug before uploading the package somewhere?
<nhandler> pythonic: You should upload the package to REVU. That way, Ubuntu Developers can review the package, and post comments about it.
<nhandler> !revu | pythonic
<ubottu> pythonic: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<pythonic> the package needs to have an @ubuntu.org maintainer?
<nhandler> pythonic: The maintainer should be 'Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>". I would suggest reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<pythonic> i see. thanks :-)
<pythonic> i also created this package for debian. should i have the debian-maintainer field?
<slangasek> it's probably a good idea, in that case
<pythonic> is it Debian-Maintainer or XSBC-Original-Maintainer?
<persia> pythonic: XSBC-Original-Maintainer is the field conventionally used.  There's no reason you couldn't use XBCS-Debian-Maintainer, but the tools won't expect it.
<persia> pythonic: Also, please don't be disappointed when nobody reviews your package until November, and then suggests changes that were due to things that happened between now and then.
<pythonic> november's ok.. (in #debian-mentors i'd be asking november in which year?)
<slangasek> who all does PPC porting nowadays?
<slangasek> (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/2:1.0~rc2-0ubuntu15/+build/707482)
<NCommander> slangasek, I do some
<slangasek> NCommander: your compiler segfaults ^^
<NCommander> Yum
<NCommander> ICE
<NCommander> Impressive
<NCommander> Its been awhile since I've seen a good ice
<ScottK> I believe TheMuso is still interested.
<NCommander> wow, queued 9 days?
<NCommander> That bad of a backlog?
<NCommander> er, 6
<NCommander> slangasek, can you please retry the build
<NCommander> GCC has been updated since this build was attempted
<slangasek> ok, done.
<slangasek> (does the gcc changelog point to anything ppc-related?)
<NCommander> thank you my lord and master
<NCommander> (haven't checked, but since my PPC machine is dist-upgrading to intrepid from hardy, it will be awhile before I can confirm or deny the build failure as buildd specific)
<NCommander> slangasek, BTW, I have access to a HPPA Ubuntu box now (don't ask how I managed to magic that), so if there is a HPPA Build failure thats bugging you, point me at it
 * NCommander also has an ia64 one too now
<slangasek> instead of blaming lamont? :)
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> No hppa boxs here
<NCommander> slangasek, although I don't have a vested interest in hppa or ia64, I do feel that our ports shouldn't be in such miserably shape that people avoid them like Vista
<NCommander> WOOO
<NCommander> FTBFS
<NCommander> It's still using the old GCC
<NCommander> WHile it seems to have built past that on my PPC
<NCommander> ^- sladen
<NCommander> er ^- slangasek
<NCommander> slangasek, ok, FTBFS confirmed :-P
<NCommander> persia, ping?
<sladen> mmm
<jdong> alright, now that this silly homework is done, let's make VLC happen :)
<NCommander> lol
<NCommander> Wow
<NCommander> Windows CE's kernel source is available under a permissive license
<NCommander> when did THAT happen
<coppro> quick, put it in Ubuntu
<NCommander> already checking the license for a catch
<NCommander> :-)
<wgrant> intrepid/wince-i386
 * wgrant winces.
 * NCommander also winces
<NCommander> That is a rather unfortnate acronym
<wgrant> It is.
<NCommander> especially if you've ever done Windwos CE coding
<NCommander> *Windows
<NCommander> I'll just leave you the first lession
<NCommander> There are no processes, just threads
<wgrant> I am fortunately blissfully ignorant of such horrors.
<NCommander> Now your mind can ooze
<ajmitch> sounds safe & secure
<NCommander> The design actually quite interesting
<NCommander> the implementation
<NCommander> Not so much
<NCommander> I'm going to lie down
 * NCommander travels beyond the reach of time itself
 * wgrant vetoes NCommander's MOTU application for that knowledge.
<NCommander> wgrant,well, if your going to play like that
<NCommander> x86 real mode ASM has only four general purpose registers, and a segmented namespace vs a flat one by default. What this means is you have to do more stack manipulation for simple things then should be allowed
<ajmitch> it's been a few years since I've done any of that, but I do recall that
<NCommander> ajmitch, protected mode has more fun things :-)
<NCommander> long mode is just bigger protected mode, although going from PM to LM is rather stupid
<RAOF> No processes?  Owch.
<NCommander> RAOF, well, there are, but generally speaking, its all threads vs. processes
<NCommander> (i.e., no fork, no vfork, and a hell of a lot of threading)
<coppro> erlang has no threads, just processes!
<NCommander> processes on Linux aren't heavy
<wgrant> Normal Windows has no fork either, odes it?
<NCommander> They are on Linux
<NCommander> wgrant, in POSIX mode it does
<NCommander> wgrant, but you can't (easily) call the Win32 subsystem from POSIX subsystems
<wgrant> Ahh.
 * RAOF thinks that's probably a sanity-saver.
<NCommander> RAOF, no, you haven't seen the win32 replacement for fork()
<NCommander> CreateProcess
<NCommander> And its 10 inputs
<NCommander> four of those are structs
<NCommander> Which control the resulting process
<StevenK> Yup. Sounds like OpenFile() and it's 8 arguments.
<RAOF> Each of which will require you to fill in the size of the structure as a part of setup, yes.
<wgrant> What about the dozen variants of it?
 * StevenK shivers, having done one semester of Win32 programming
<RAOF> No, I meant that was likely a way to save the sanity of people used to POSIX by keeping the evil win32 away.
<jdong> aahhhh
<jdong> 3319 line interdiff
<wgrant> jdong: VLC?
<jdong> wgrant: yup
 * ajmitch wonders why people think that win32 programming is bad
<NCommander> StevenK, OpenFile() is depreiated
<jdong> wgrant: just sifted through upstream's nightly packaging line by line
<wgrant> jdong: Ew.
<NCommander> ajmitch, actually, its not that bad once you get used to it
<jdong> wgrant: merged what wasn't crack and fixed what was.
<StevenK> Oh, CreateFile()
<NCommander> StevenK, its now CreateFile
<wgrant> NCommander: OpenFileI?
<NCommander> Yeah
<wgrant> Ah.
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> Every function has an A and a U version
<NCommander> for Unicode
<wgrant> Ahh.
<NCommander> s/U/W/g
<NCommander> (wide)
 * ajmitch was about to say...
<NCommander> Normally you can forget about that unless your doing COM objects
<RAOF> ajmitch: For me, it was fiddling around with it and finding that all the structures seemed to have at least one undocumented member that had to be set a certain way or the program would mysteriously fail.
<StevenK> Since just getting it to deal with Unicode is too hard
<NCommander> COM objects have to use Unicode APIs
<ajmitch> RAOF: at least the API is comparatively stable across versions
<NCommander> Which can cause all sorts of fun interactions since you can't directly access the ASCII methods without doing a hell of a lot of magic
<RAOF> ajmitch: Indeed.  That could be said to be it's major defining feature.
<RAOF> "We're ABI compatible until the end of time"
<ajmitch> and the major drawback, in a sense
<StevenK> NCommander: And yet, you said "actually, its not that bad once you get used to it"
<NCommander> StevenK, your talking to someone who codes in Ada
 * StevenK twitches
<NCommander> My tolerances for pain outstrip most peoples
<NCommander> Hell, my hack o meter is desenstized to the point that I don't even flinch on some bad hacks
<RAOF> While we're on API suckage, could someone kindly make GTK theadsafe?  Kthxbye.
<NCommander> Generally speaking, COM is wonderful in some ways
<NCommander> Total fail in others
<NCommander> COM is what COBRA SHOULD have been
<wgrant> No. CORBA shouldn't *be*.
<ajmitch> yay for design-by-committee
 * NCommander has used cobra
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> Its like a poorly implemented COM
<NCommander> About the only good thing is its standardized so if you have a COBRA client, it (usually) works with any cobra server
<jdong> RAOF: how many threadsafe GUI toolkits are there?
<RAOF> jdong: I don't know, nor do I care.
<jdong> :)
<RAOF> jdong: I'd like GTK to be among their number!
<jdong> good answer. I think the answer is zero though :D
<NCommander> jdong, Qt
<RAOF> QT isn't theadsafe?
<jdong> NCommander: is it thread safe?
<RAOF> Hah, NCommander beats me to it :)
<NCommander> With some limitations, yes
<NCommander> WIn32 is actually as well
<jdong> *with some limitations*?
<NCommander> jdong, some of the database APIs aren't
<NCommander> Remember, QT isn't just GUI
<NCommander> But last I checked, almost all of the GUI functions are thread safe with the exception of qt_init() or equivelent ;-)
<NCommander> (you can only init the library once)
<RAOF> It's _everything_ :).
<NCommander> My grip with Qt is it intergrates poorly with everything
<NCommander> I never mind running a GTK app in KDE
<NCommander> But I wince when I have to run a Qt/KDE app in GNOME/Xfce
<RAOF>  Because it is its own network, I/O, html, sound, video, GUI, IPC stack?
<NCommander> GTK has quite a bit of that
<NCommander> But when I use a GTK app, I don't usaully realize it
<NCommander> Since GTK blends in with most enviornments (i.e., Motif)
<jdong> ok, hopefully nobody reads the bzr logs of my internal VLC branch
<jdong> I don't think they're code-of-conduct friendly at this point :D
 * wgrant subscribes
 * NCommander does too
<NCommander> stransborn(sp) effect
<jdong> CoC-friendliness = k/((pbuilder_build_failures)^100*(debuild_failures))
<NCommander> The moment you try and censor something is the moment everyone learns about it
<jdong> NCommander: I think you're thinking of Streisand.
<NCommander> jdong, heh, you should have seen some of my "choice" comments with the KDE build failures
<NCommander> jdong, right
<NCommander> Oh well, at least we avoided Godwin's law
<jdong> well let's try to put this shiny new iMac with faster hard drive and 4GB RAM into good use.
<jdong> build race :)
<NCommander> jdong, I'm working on making the PPC toolchain stop segfaulting
<jdong> you poor thing :)
<jdong> and I'm working while 100000000 VLC users seem to be breathing down my neck.
<NCommander> jdong, I have a HPPA box
<NCommander> :-)
<jdong> :)
<NCommander> (well access to one running Ubuntu HPPA)
<NCommander> lamount will be happy. He found a second user
<jdong> I bet ten bucks the moment I finish this someone will file a backports request for it.
<NCommander> I'll take that bet
<NCommander> what version of VLC are you backporting?
<jdong> NCommander: hopefully 0.9.2 will be in intrepid this/next week
<jdong> provided these lovely upstream debdiffs don't explode the LHC.
 * NCommander files a backport request, winning ten dollars
<jdong> for the most part, they were quite reasonable
<jdong> ZOMGZ IT GOT TO THE CONFIGURE STAGE!
<NCommander> Libtool failure in
<NCommander> 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<coppro> FTBFS?
<jdong> you people are jerks!
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> Its fun to watch someone else solve FTBFS instead
<NCommander> Now I know why people ask me to do it
<jdong> ok, looks all good
<jdong> now it'll probably fail in the dh_install phase.
<NCommander> segfault. come on segfault dh
 * jdong wonders if it's evil to add -j2 during testing
<jdong> NCommander: haha amd64's too popular to segfault
<NCommander> jdong, try using the GCL lisp compiler
<NCommander> Segfaults on amd64 all the time
<jdong> should Standards-Version be bumped to 3.8.0 or whatever lintian wants it at?
<NCommander> jdong, its somewhat pointless on Ubuntu if its going to get clobbered on a sync
<NCommander> But I usually do it if I'm fixing lintian warnings
<jdong> NCommander: well VLC isn't gonna be synced; though I have much more important things to worry about than quashing little lintian beefs here and there.
<ScottK-vacation> jdong: Ubuntu policy specifically discourages bumping standards version.
<jdong> ScottK-vacation: thanks, didn't know that
<ScottK-vacation> See the ubuntu-policy package in Intrepid.
<ScottK-vacation> We have one of those now.
<NCommander> we do?
<ScottK-vacation> Yep.
<jdong> cool
<ScottK-vacation> Decision to make one came at the last UDS.
 * ScottK-vacation really goes on vacation now ...
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> So much for backporting uploads
<NCommander> jdong, we need a new core-dev :-P
<jdong> lol hold your horses :)
<NCommander> so your applying for core-dev ;-)
 * superm1 breathes in jdong's general vicinity
<jdong> haha no I'm not
<superm1> how's VLC coming?
<jdong> superm1: compiling
<superm1> awesome
<jdong> superm1: finally managed to push it past ./configure using bits of upstream packaging
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> lying down for real
<NCommander> night
<jdong> superm1: parsing through the 3000-line change to debian/ was the most time consuming part
<jdong> superm1: and worst part is I need to do it again tomorrow morning when less sleep deprived.
<superm1> i knew it felt like there was some crack missing at this point in intrepid, so i'm glad you're taking this up
<jdong> there were a few "shrug, why not" moments.
<jdong> I don't think I got that libass thing that the one guy said twice or so in the bug report
<jdong> I will have to go back and do that after this first test-build succeeds
<jdong> (note the optimistic assumption I just stuck in there :D)
<superm1> haha
<superm1> none of these ffmpeg based players ever compile right on the first try
<superm1> but it's good to be optimistic
<jdong> you know, at this point I bet if it's gonna fail it's in the dh_install phase
<jdong> 5 seconds before the build is done BOOM and everything gets rm'ed and we start from square one.
<superm1> that's why i've learned to do things in schroot when i think it's a chance of failing
<superm1> rather than sbuild
<superm1> you spend another few minutes doing get-build-deps and waiting by hand
<superm1> but it's worth it for these big builds
<jdong> well I'm gonna just sip on coffee and wait for that
<jdong> and catch up on course notes reading
<jdong> haha my roommate just called me a nerd for using 3 computers :D
<StevenK> jdong: At once?
<jdong> StevenK: yeah
<jdong> one for starcraft, one for course notes and IRC, one for compiling VLC
<StevenK> Depending on how you define use, I'm using 4, now
<jdong> the bluetooth keyboard, USB keyboard, and laptop keyboard help.
<pythonic> hi.. su foo as root in a chroot environment requires a password.. why?
<jdong> WHOOO FTBFS #4!
<jdong> FTBFS #5
<RAOF> Score!
<RAOF> Let's see if you can break the big 1-0!
<jdong> haha I broke down and chrooted into a pbuilder.
<jdong> and hacked -j3 on make.
<jdong> patience has been lost
<RAOF> What happens when -j3 is the thing breaking the build? :)
<jdong> RAOF: run -j3 twice then -j1 once to clean up the rest
<jdong> RAOF: silly RAOF, I'm an ex Gentoo user :)
<jdong> I'm a master at these hackish games of patience :)
<RAOF> Wah?!
<jdong> lol you've never heard that one for working around make -j* race conditions? :)
<RAOF> Nope :)
<jdong> obvious not a gentoo pro with strlen($CFLAGS) > 800
<persia> Just as a general note, the buildds run with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="parallel=n+1", so expecting make -j1 behaviour is perhaps unsafe...
<jdong> good to note.
<jdong> I recall vaguely dealing with a race condition FTBFS from a year or so ago
* TheMuso changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Feature Freeze:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Steady on: We're in Feature Freeze! | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, September 19th 04:00 UTC
<Hobbsee> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: MOTU Team 19 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 22 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 23 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 24 Sep 22:00: Platform Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubottu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: Current meeting: MOTU Team 20 Sep 08:00: Platform Team | 22 Sep 14:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 24 Sep 01:00: Server Team | 25 Sep 03:00: QA Team | 25 Sep 08:00: Platform Team
<Hobbsee> oh, now.
<persia> Err.  Oops.  An hour back, rather.
<StevenK> As in, it's already been?
<persia> Well, it wasn't, but it was scheduled.
 * persia looks at the agenda to see if there is something that could be discussed during the second hour of the meeting
 * TheMuso forgot that on the occasional friday, there is a MOTU meeting.
<Hobbsee> yeah, i was fairly sure that 0400 UTC today had passed...
 * RAOF forgot that on the occasional friday, there is a MOTU meeting that isn't at some godawful hour :)
<StevenK> Hah
<TheMuso> RAOF: thats actually what I meant, yes.
<persia> Right.  No agenda.  Didn't we do this failure to have any meetings things last summer too, and all get annoyed, and decide to do something about it, getting back to regular meetings?
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Feature Freeze:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Steady on: We're in Feature Freeze! | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 3rd 12:00 UTC
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Good morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<Laibsch> azeem: thanks, that indeed fixed it, it seems
<TheMuso> 9/c
<Adri2000> any bored motu-sru for bug #85266 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 85266 in ngircd "ngircd refuses to start automatically through sysv init" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85266
<huats> morning everyone
<Lamba> morning
<verwilst> ping emgent
<verwilst> hm, nspluginwrapper seems to be available for amd64 only in hardy?
<verwilst> is that correct?
<verwilst> on my system it's available for i386 as well, but on packages.ubuntu.com and on other systems no trace of i386 nsplugiwrapper is found
<verwilst> only amd64
<geser> verwilst: packages.u.c lists i386 for the version in intrepid (before it was amd64 only)
<verwilst> geser: yeah
<verwilst> but i have it for i386 too
<geser> verwilst: which version?
<verwilst> Architecture: i386 Version: 0.9.91.5-2ubuntu2.8.04.1~mt1
<verwilst> don't know what that ~mt means though
<verwilst> 3rd party repo? :)
<geser> this doesn't look like a version from the offical archive
<verwilst> then were did i get it from hehe
<geser> what does "apt-cache policy nspluginwrapper" tell about it?
<verwilst> mt! mozilla-team!
<verwilst> ppa
<verwilst> hehe :) solved
<soren> NCommander: Do you intend to update all of xfce in the xubuntu-dev ppa to 4.5.90?
<gnomefreak> what am i overlooking? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/539806
<james_w> gnomefreak: the _source.changes and .dsc are from different builds at a guess
<gnomefreak> james_w: thanks lintian on ~jjv doesnt error but on intrepid build it does ;)
<DktrKranz> has anybody ever seen something similar to http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17761479/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.libdebian-package-make-perl_0.04_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? It builds fine in a pbuilder
<gnomefreak> thanks james_w i think it has more to do with bzr bd now that i am getting into it more
<siretart> jdong: wgrant: I think I have vlc ready for intrepid. it is currently in my ppa
<iulian> Hi
<jdong> siretart: lol beat me to it :) I was working on that last night
<jdong> siretart: would you like to announce that on bug 270404?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270404
<siretart> jdong: I committed my tree to bzr on lp:~siretart/vlc/ubuntu, perhaps you might want to review/compare with your version?
<siretart> jdong: anyways, I've found yet another mistake, the x264 plugin needs to go into vlc, not vlc-nox. this is fixed in the latest bzr revision
<siretart> jdong: if you don't mind, please review that branch, and if you are confident, please upload it to ppa-motumedia and announce it on the bug calling for testers
<siretart> jdong: as for a short test, the package works fine for me so far
<jdong> siretart: I'll take a look at it this morning
<siretart> jdong: what time is it for you?
<jdong> siretart: morning :)
<siretart> excellent :) - its afternoon (3pm) for me
<jdong> siretart: why should x264 go into vlc instead of vlc-nox?
<wgrant> That's my doing.
<wgrant> It depends on libx11
<wgrant> So it FTBFS otherwise.
<jdong> wgrant: grumble is that because we built x264 with X11?
<wgrant> Looks like it.
<jdong> ok gotcha; we need that on $listofthingstotweakinsparetime
<jdong> as x264 is useful for VLC transcoding
<jdong> siretart: yeah yours looks pretty similar to mine plus minus some reordered build deps :)
<_ruben> ugh .. i guess i went way over my head trying to package (for personal use initially) scst (combination of userland and kernel modules) .. time to read some more wikis and stuff
<LucidFox> I'm seriously considering relinquishing my MOTUship in protest against the codec thing, but this will accomplish nothing anyway.
<siretart> jdong: because our current package has that plugin in vlc already. we could move it to vlc-nox, but then we would need to add Replaces to debian/control
<jdong> siretart: understood
<jdong> LucidFox: "the codec thing"?
<siretart> jdong: okay, great. will you upload to motumedia PPA or shall I do that?
<jdong> siretart: I can do that if you wish
<LucidFox> Ah, wait, it's not Canonical themselves going to sell codecs. False alarm.
<jdong> LucidFox: wait a sec, what would be the issue if Canonical were to sell codecs?
<siretart> jdong: okay, go ahead! thanks!
<jdong> LucidFox: a lot of us, namely  the entire north american market, would love to have the option for paid-for access to legal codecs
<LucidFox> Well, being a rabid Stallmanite, I wouldn't consider that acceptable even if I had the mistfortune to live there.
 * siretart has noticed earlier today that our copy of ffmpeg already has support for dlopen'ing libfaad and liba52. it should work if one would include the relevant headers to the package and switch it on the confflags
<jdong> LucidFox: not acceptable to... coexist in a world where codecs are sold? I mean, nobody's shoving this stuff down your throat, right?
<LucidFox> Not acceptable for me to support Canonical, were it to consider such behavior acceptable - as opposed to the FSF's all-or-nothing policy.
<siretart> LucidFox: is this a discussion about freeness of software or a discussion about obeying and/or enforcing patents?
<jdong> seems to be like the entire "morality" of obeying patents
<LucidFox> I consider software patents as an unacceptable phenomenon, period.
<jdong> while I personally don't support the idea of patenting codecs the way they are now, I don't think just using their technology with blind disregard to the patents is the moral high road.
<jdong> finding fully Free alternatives, however, would be such an alternative.
<jdong> siretart: alright, in motumedia-ppa :)
<LucidFox> Luckily, I have the fortune to live in a country where software patents are void.
<jdong> at least that's where I think I uploaded it.
<jdong> ;-)
<siretart> jdong: yes, it seems to have landed there. now we can go calling for testers and bribe the release team to accept that package
<jdong> haha the former sounds a lot easier :)
<Hobbsee> mmm....beer.
<Hobbsee> ;)
<jdong> Hobbsee: sorry, underage :(
<jdong> a few more months to go
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> crazy country.
<wgrant> Silly US.
<wgrant> (although I'm underage even here...)
<Hobbsee> besides, i'm not partial to beer, or any other kind of alcohol, anyway
<LucidFox> I'm touchy enough that I'm going to throw away a legally bought DVD just because it contains an anvilicious intro movie about how "downloading movies is stealing". After ripping it first.
<jdong> wgrant: no way?
<soren> wgrant: what does that make you? 9 years old?
<Lamba> lucid send it to me
<Lamba> ill hate the dvd for ever for you
<LucidFox> Lamba> What, the intro?
<wgrant> soren: Hah. Not quite.
<LucidFox> Or the entire video?
<Lamba> the dvd :)
<soren> wgrant: Perhaps the view of Australia I have in my head is ever so slightly skewed. :)
<wgrant> soren: Heh.
<LucidFox> No problem. Tell me your address and I'll mail you the DVD and pay the postage cost.
<Lamba> j/k ;p i been caught by the internet dvd sending axe killer nutter too many times. :)
<LucidFox> It's Stargate Continuum, by the way. English and Russian sound.
<LucidFox> Lamba> Oh, what?
<LucidFox> * Uh, what?
<LucidFox> "the internet dvd sending axe killer nutter"? What the heck is that?
 * wgrant kills some axes and sends DVDs of the Internets to LucidFox.
<LucidFox> ...
<wgrant> That's correct.
 * LucidFox 's head explodes from trying to comprehend all this.
 * NCommander takes the LucidFox bits and puts him back together
<soren> NCommander: Did you see my XFCe ping earlier today?
<NCommander> soren, no
<NCommander> I just woke up
<NCommander> What did I break?
<soren> 11:35:13 < soren> NCommander: Do you intend to update all of xfce in the xubuntu-dev ppa to 4.5.90?
<NCommander> soren, oh yes, I do
<soren> NCommander: Fantastic.
<NCommander> soren, I've just been a little short on time
<soren> No worries. I know what that is like.
<soren> brb
<NCommander> Its first thing on the todo list tommorow
<bddebian> Heya gang
 * iulian is not staring at bddebian.
<iulian> Hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heh, hi iulian
<jpds> Afternoon.
<iulian> jpds: Hey!
<jpds> Hey there iulian.
<NCommander> soren, you an Xubuntu user?
<norsetto> james_w: re. bug 272120, what do you mean by "via Debian"?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272120 in bzr-builddeb "[Freeze exception] Update to version 2.0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272120
<james_w> norsetto: upload to Debian and sync it
<norsetto> james_w: errr, are you requesting us permission to upload to Debian!?
<james_w> norsetto: no, to sync a package from Debian that isn't uploaded there yet
<james_w> I need to seek a sponsor for Debian as well
<norsetto> james_w: hmmm, did I miss any email or aren't you a motu yet?
<james_w> norsetto: I'm not
<norsetto> james_w: ok, I thought you got your blessing already
<norsetto> james_w: ok, I'll give my ack as long as this doesn't drag for too long, hopefully you should get upload rights to our archive soon
<james_w> norsetto: well, that wouldn't change the fact that this would need an FFe would it?
<norsetto> james_w: it does, we can't assume archive admins have time to process things like sync, etc. after beta
<soren> NCommander: Yup.
<NCommander> soren, you should be in #xubuntu-devel :-P
<NCommander> Were you using my 4.5.80 packages?
<soren> NCommander: Is that where all the cool kids are?
<NCommander> soren, its where all three of the Xubuntu developers live ;-)
<soren> Heh
<NCommander> we're a "little" understaffed
<NCommander> soren, were you using my 4.5.80 packages?
<soren> I am, yes.
<NCommander> WOW
<NCommander> I had a user
<NCommander> yay
<soren> ...only since yesterday, though :)
 * NCommander falls over
<jdong> AAAH NOOOOO don't rsync that!
 * jdong remembers -x a bit better next time
<liw> I use rsync --delete-after -axHS
<jdong> liw: yeah but when it recurses into sysfs weird things happen :)
<_ruben> hmm .. apparently DEB_DESTDIR=/some/path module-assistant build some-app doesnt honour the DEB_DESTDIR 'override' :/
<liw> jdong, that is indeed why -x is good; -H and -S are also good, for other reasons
<jdong> liw: indeed; I personally don't use -H due to the huge performance hit unless I have something that really relies on hardlinks
<liw> I haven't found it to be a huge hit, unless there's a lot of hard links -- but if there are, then I want to keep them
 * Adri2000 looks for a motu-sru person
<jdong> Adri2000: mmm?
<Adri2000> jdong: bug #85266
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 85266 in ngircd "ngircd refuses to start automatically through sysv init" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85266
<jdong> Adri2000: what motu-sru intervention is needed?
<Adri2000> jdong: ack my .2 upload
<Adri2000> jdong: .1 got approved etc. but norsetta found some problems with it. .2 should fix them
<Adri2000> er, norsetto
<jdong> Adri2000: ah, ok
<Nutzebahn> Hello.
<Nutzebahn> I really think that a Megatunix binary would be VERY helpful to many people, because Megatunix is the only ECU tuning program available for Linux.
<Nutzebahn> Could someone help me with this?
<Nutzebahn> Or make one.
<Nutzebahn> This is quite important.
<directhex> looks like a pretty simple package job
<rexbron> Nutzebahn:  Start by reading this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<directhex> follow the ubuntu packaging guide
<directhex> as linked by my beautiful assistant rexbron
<csilk> Nutzebahn, yes it could be done easily
<rexbron> directhex: rofl
<Nutzebahn> I tried to compile it and couldn't...
<Nutzebahn> :(
<Nutzebahn> I don't know if anything is wrong with it...
<Nutzebahn> But I definitely need help
<Nutzebahn> .
<pochu> hey hey rexbron!
<rexbron> hey pochu
<pochu> rexbron: are you going to California?
<rexbron> It's in the air, UDS is in the middle of exams for me
<rexbron> so if i get lucky, yes
<csilk> Nutzebahn,  am i right in saying you need to run megatunix in a free partition?
<csilk> *in its own partition
<Nutzebahn> in it's own partition? :'(
<Nutzebahn> Why does it need that?
<csilk> Give me two minutes to read the manual and I'll elaborate
<csilk> no wait, scratch that, I'm wrong
<pochu> kirkland: hi, I've just reported 272172, I was surprised you aren't subscribed to update-motd bugs, so in case you want to know about it...
<kirkland> pochu: doh!
<csilk> I can package megatunix up and submit it for consideration into the repository
<kirkland> pochu: sorry, i'll subscribe now
<csilk> making it availabale from apt-get or install/remove programs
<pochu> kirkland: no problem :)
<directhex> Nutzebahn, built. like i said, an easy jobn
<Nutzebahn> Ok, thank goodness.
<Nutzebahn> Thank you. :)
<csilk> I'll do it tonight
<csilk> no worries
<Nutzebahn> Could you send it to me after packaging it?
<csilk> Sure thing
<Nutzebahn> and to Ubuntu
<directhex> Nutzebahn, i'm not making a package for you. i have less than zero desire to maintain it, and absolutely no ability to test it
<Nutzebahn> Thank you.
<Nutzebahn> If I could learn how to do it, I would maintain it.
<directhex> Nutzebahn, but this is an easy package if YOU want to do it. no complex packaging at all
<directhex> probably 3 lines with dh7
<csilk> directhex,  I'll do it for him later
<csilk> i dont mind testing and maintaining it
<Nutzebahn> I couldn't even compile it, it said that it needed gtk+-2.0 and it wouldn't install that.
<Nutzebahn> I would ike to do it and maintain it.
<Nutzebahn> Thank you csilk.
<directhex> Nutzebahn, aptitude install apt-file; apt-file update; apt-file search gtk+-2.0.pc
<Nutzebahn> like*
<Nutzebahn> directhex: The following NEW packages will be installed:
<Nutzebahn>   apt-file libapt-pkg-perl{a} libconfig-file-perl{a}
<Nutzebahn>   liblist-moreutils-perl{a}
<directhex> yes, i know. that's the point. i think it's reasonable for me to assume that if you run some package installation commands, then packages will be installed
<Nutzebahn> Ok, so it should compile now?
<Nutzebahn> directhex: E: Can't create /var/cache/apt/apt-file: Permission denied
<Nutzebahn> Help?
<kirkland> pochu: hey, okay, i'm subscribed to update-motd bugs...  the packaging of this tool has changed due to some requests from cjwatson and pitti, for inclusion into main
<kirkland> pochu: you will get that prompt again when you upgrade to 1.7, unfortunately.  after that, we should be good.
<kirkland> pochu: cjwatson and pitti suggested that this is just something that alpha-users are going to have to cope with ;-)
<kirkland> pochu: bug updated with a note to that effect ;-)
<handschuh> nutzebahn: tried sudo?
<pochu> kirkland: ah, right, it's not in hardy
<pochu> kirkland: ok then
<kirkland> pochu: yeah, sorry about the inconvenience
<kirkland> pochu: i was advised against a preinst script that would maneuver around it, as being more complicated than worthy for an alpha release
<kirkland> pochu: fwiw, it did make me squirm when I published the updates :-S
<Nutzebahn> oops
<Nutzebahn> :'(
<Nutzebahn> Emnbarassing.
<pochu> kirkland: don't worry, it's no problem to me
<pochu> kirkland: I was just worried for hardy->intrepid upgrades, but since it's not there... :)
<kirkland> pochu: right, not there
<kirkland> pochu: brand new package ;-)
<pochu> kirkland: feel free to close as won't fix if you haven't done it yet
<pochu> when launchpad comes back ;-)
<kirkland> pochu: k
<crimsun> \sh: RE: ia32-libs: okay.
<crimsun> slytherin: RE: bcm2033: see http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid-lrm.git;a=tree;f=ubuntu-firmware/broadcom;h=c72df9cb589472b15528d3240a6170d9b4eeb73a;hb=HEAD
<Nutzebahn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/272210
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 272210 in ubuntu "Megatunix needs to be packaged and added to the repository." [Undecided,New]
<jdong> "I was wondering if this is still an issue or can you reproduce with a newer release?"
<jdong> *stifles some grins*
<jdong> must... resist....
<jdong> lim(maturity(jdong), sleep -> 0)=0
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I wanted to fix broken dependencies for icedove-dispmua and icedove-nostalgy, changing icedove by thunderbird. Is it acceptable to have the source package called icedove-dispmua and the binary called thunderbird-dispmua or should I left the binary called icedove-dispmua?
<geser> fabrice_sp: should be no problem to keep the source name (easier for merging) and rename the binary. But you might want to talk to someone from the mozillateam as I don't know if there is a special policy or guidelines
<fabrice_sp> geser: ok. I'll look for someone from the mozilla team. Thanks
<fabrice_sp> Someone from mozillateam? asac? crimsun? fta? jazzva?
<fta> fabrice_sp, we have no special policy about that, general rules apply
<fta> indeed, if it's a merge from debian, it's easier to preserve the src pkg name
<fabrice_sp> fta: that's what I think, but rename the binary package so that it's easier to find, or not?
<fabrice_sp> (the same for icedove-nostalgy)
<fta> would be nice, but you'll have to wait for approval from the release manager
<fta> (it will be a NEW)
<fta> not that it's a problem, just a little delay
<fabrice_sp> so it's not a FFe, right?
<fta> fabrice_sp, hold on
<LaserJock> is there really no way to override the Ubuntu Maintainer field stuff?
<fabrice_sp> fta: yes?
<LaserJock> I'd like to keep an 0ubuntuX versioning *and* a non-Ubuntu Mainainer address
<iulian> If I have a lot of files that are copyrighted by the Free Software Foundation, Inc but the years differs from file to file, can I just write the first and the last year? For example: 'Copyright (C) 1995-2003 FSF, Inc' instead of 'Copyright (C) 1995-1997, 2000-2003 FSF, Inc' ?
<iulian> That will be written in the debian/copyright file obviously.
<geser> LaserJock: unset $DEBEMAIL before calling dpkg-buildpackage or dpkg-source
<geser> LaserJock: if DEBEMAIL contains @ubuntu.com it will produce an error else just a warning
<LaserJock> geser: ah, right
<LaserJock> forgot about that trick
<NCommander> hola world
<geser> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> how goes it geser ?
<geser> good, just got more busy the last week than expected
<LaserJock> hmm
<NCommander> geser, I know that feeling. What's your job?
<LaserJock> does anybody know of a RSS feed for -changes?
<geser> LaserJock: doesn't ubuntu-nl have some?
<LaserJock> it seems Seveas' old feeds are no longer available
<norsetto> hi folks
<LaserJock> geser: I don't think so, I just checked and they're gone
<geser> NCommander: usually I'm a student but between semesters I have a small office job
<NCommander> Ah
<NCommander> Same, expect office job == firefighter ;-)
<LaserJock> ah, gmane.org has -changes
<NCommander> hey LaserJock
<geser> LaserJock: http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/IntrepidChanges
<LaserJock> geser: well, that works except it doesn't have the entries that use the new format
<LaserJock> I guess it's broken
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure ubuntu-nl.org is not a good place for those to be
<geser> LaserJock: didn't the new format just started today?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but I believe the change has been known for several weeks
<geser> yes, certainly. There was a mail to ubuntu-devel IIRC.
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock and geser
<LaserJock> in any case I'll update UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<geser> Hi highvoltage
<slytherin> [OT]: Can anyone having access to a windows machine help testing an application?
<nellery> slytherin, what's the application?
<slytherin> nellery: it is a 8085 simulator. I am cross compiling it. And a bug in wine keeps me from testing on ubuntu itself.
<csilk> are there any rules about what cant be packaged and added to the repository?
<jdong> csilk: Well the only thing that absolutely can't be packaged are packages with EULAs preventing redistribution by the archive mirroring system
<csilk> Yeah sorry I didnt have my thinking hat on when asking that question.. Everything comes down to the license
<wgrant> jdong: Licenses, not EULAs.
<jdong> wgrant: sorry, did I use a sensitive word?
<Laney> EULAs are distinct from licenses
<jdong> understood.
<Laney> EU = End User :)
<wgrant> A mirror wouldn't be affected by a EULA.
<wgrant> As they're not an end-user.
<Laney> siretart, jdong: VLC seems good, btw
<Laney> Stupid QT though ;)
<jdong> can *.install exclude a director?
<jdong> directory*
<jdong> i.e. I want to install usr/share/vlc *EXCEPT* usr/share/vlc/mozilla
<csilk> jdong, Laney by this > http://www.bluej.org/about/license.html  would you say that it is ok to distribute via the ubuntu repository or not?
<csilk> or should I seek permission from the copyright holders first just to make absolutely sure
<jdong> csilk: IANAL but that sounds okay for multiverse
<Laney> "#
<Laney> While Ubuntu will not charge license fees for this distribution, you might well want to charge to print Ubuntu CD's, or create your own customized versions of Ubuntu which you sell, and should have the freedom to do so.
<Laney> I don't know if "non-commercial" falls foul of that
<csilk> i think an email to the developers is in order
<csilk> As this is a good candidate for the multiverse repository
<Laney> csilk: Any agreement you get from them must not be Ubuntu-specific
<blueyed> superm1: Thanks for taking care of virtualbox-ose recently. Please subscribe to bugmail though: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose/+subscribe
<csilk> Laney,  can you elaborate?
<superm1> blueyed, i'm watching it but i dont want all the bug mail in my box
<superm1> i've been responding to recent bugs
<Laney> csilk: Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
<Laney> It's pretty easy to understand
<blueyed> superm1: ok. I think virtualbox-ose should depend on virtualbox-ose-source, so that the dkms part kicks in/gets used.
<csilk> thanks
<blueyed> superm1: JFI: I've just uploaded ubuntu3
<superm1> blueyed, it recommends it and w/ recommends by default it should be installed
<csilk> Laney,  From what I've read, it looks like it would have to under mulstiverse
<csilk> *multiverse
<Laney> csilk: Right. The non-commercial bit troubles me though, and I don't know whether it would be acceptable
<blueyed> superm1: Do we have recommends by default now? (I've installed it using "dpkg -i")
<blueyed> superm1: additionally, it might make sense to use the upstream's init.d script, which provides e.g. "setup" to manually recompile the module..
<superm1> blueyed, yeah recommends are by default starting with intrepid
<csilk> yeah i see your point but as its not installed by default I can't see a problem, I'll email the authors and see what they think, it's a commonly used piece of software among university computer science students, alot of which use ubuntu (at my university)
<superm1> blueyed, well i would think only if that setup were re-scripted to do it with dkms. i forsee complications if both were available
<superm1> as to which one should take precendence
<csilk> It is a free learning tool (as in beer) but yeah, I'll seek permission first
<superm1> blueyed, did you have any ideas on what's up with the 64 bit guestness?
<superm1> blueyed, i tried to activate the support in every way i saw
<blueyed> superm1: no, sorry..
<blueyed> Does bug 271507 need any confirmation? (IIRC ubuntu-archive only processed confirmed bugs)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271507 in virtualbox-ose-modules "Please remove virtualbox-ose-modules from archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271507
<superm1> well given i wasn't part of the virtualization team, i didn't want to trump your guys' decisions on this
<superm1> in case you didn't like the way dkms was doing things
<nhandler> blueyed: A MOTU needs to Ack the request. Once they do, they set the status to Confirmed, and subscribe the Archive Admins
<blueyed> nhandler: ubuntu-archive is subscribed and superm1 is MOTU. Maybe motu-sru needs to ACK?
<blueyed> superm1: what decisions? about the vboxdrv init script? I've done this, and I'm not part of the virt team either
<superm1> blueyed, oh i thought you were
<superm1> blueyed, just about removing  the modules and doing things solely with DKMS
<superm1> blueyed, since it was a signficant change
<blueyed> Looks fine for me.. v-o-m was a big PITA
<superm1> i'll mark it confirmed then.  an archive admin will probably touch it next week
<blueyed> superm1: Thanks.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-20
<NCommander> soren, I resume my packaging work :-)
<csilk> If a package I'm putting together has delendencies (e.g. latest jre) is there a way to make the package manager aware of this so users arent installing things without the required dependencies?
<csilk> *dependencies
<jdong> ah fsck did I really just put hardy in that?
<jdong> (don't worry guys, in a PPA)
<jdong> sigh; cd jdong && ./configure --enable-more-sleep
<NCommander> slangasek, er, you use a Dvorak keyboard?
<Elbrus> apachelogger: ping
<Elbrus>  I filled bug 260464 a month ago, but nobody has acknowledge that one, what can I do?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260464 in fpc "fp-units-gtk2 has undefined references due to GtkFileSystemError removal from GTK" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260464
<Elbrus>  I provided a patch and linked to the solution at upstream
<jdong> Elbrus: hi, let me take a look at the patch
<Elbrus> jdong: thanks... I didn't make it, but I checked that it worked
<jdong> Elbrus: patch looks good; let me just send it through a test build and then upload. Thanks for your patience
<Elbrus> jdong: thanks for your time. When this works I have a package ready for Ubuntu which packages software with more than 1 million downloads: winff
<jdong> Elbrus: ah that's the ffmpeg GUI, correct?
<jdong> <-- amateur video encoding nerd
<Elbrus> jdong: yup
<Elbrus> jdong: its already several weeks in NEW in Debian
<nullack> Hi, would someone please help me with some dev problems Im having on building a package to help xbox 360 users stream media on Ubuntu?
<jdong> Elbrus: uploaded :0
<jdong> :)
<Elbrus> jdong: thank you
<jdong> sure thing
<nellery> Hi, I was attempting to upgrade the glom package, and I got this error building it
<nellery> http://paste.ubuntu.com/48492/
<nellery> any ideas?
<persia> nellery: Looks like you've specified some oddities in your build-depends.  For example, there is no bakery-2.6 package (or even a bakery package)
<nellery> persia, I hadn't changed anything
<persia> There is a libbakery-2.4-dev package, which might be a sensible build-dependency, but it's not 2.6.
<persia> nellery: Does the current glom build cleanly?
<fabrice_sp> fta: Hi. Some news about the package icedove-dispmua?
<nellery> persia, I'll try that now
<persia> nellery: It looks to me like ./configure wants newer versions than you are providing (or perhaps than may be available).  It may be that the version of glom you want is not compatible with the set of libraries in intrepid.
<nellery> persia, that's probably the case.. the older version is so far building fine
<nellery> would it be best to give up on it and mark the bug as won't fix?
<persia> nellery: So, the choices are 1) give up for now, 2) track down all the things that need an upgrade, test all the rdepends, and beg, 3) backport glom to work with the older versions, test, and hope there are no problems, 4) cherrypick the things you really wanted and apply them as patches to current glom.
<persia> Nah.  Won't Fix is fairly firm.  I'd just leave it "confirmed" with a note saying it's probably a jaunty target due to the freeze.
<persia> Then come jaunty, you can do the dependencies dance and get it updated.
<nellery> persia: ok, 1 seems best.. most of the others are still too advanced for me :)
<nellery> thanks a lot for your help
<persia> nellery: I'd recommend giving option 4 a look.  There may be some useful patches in upstream that we want.
<persia> Further, with option 4, you can probably not break FF, which may be easier.
<nellery> persia: hmm, perhaps I will give that a try
<nullack> Hi. Im trying to teach myself packaging so I can get some bugs fixed in a package I use.
<nullack> Im doing the getting started guide
<nullack> And Im having a problem with gpg. It says:
<nullack> gpg: can't open `/home/nullack/.gnupg/pubring.gpg'
<nullack> gpg: keydb_search_first failed: file open error
<nullack> I need to import my private key from a backup after rebuilding my test machine
<persia> nullack: Check the permissions of the files in ~/.gnupg
<nullack> persia : Ah! Thanks, Ive chowned the problem
 * Hobbsee waves
<highvoltage> hey hobbs
<RAOF> Howdie Hobbsee.
<fabrice_sp> Hi Hobbsee
<nullack> Do I have to have a ~./pbuilderrc like what DH shows on youtube? Its not in the pbuilder howto
<jdong> only if you need to overrride pbuilder's defaults.
<nullack> jdong If Im on Intrepid, I dont need to overwrite? right?
<jdong> nullack: I wouldn't expect so
<nullack> jdong : BTW, thanks alot for your work VLC its top stuff
<jdong> nullack: not a prob :)
<siretart> jdong: did you notice that I moved the bzr branch to ~motumedia?
<siretart> I didn't get to tell you yesterday
<jdong> siretart: yeah I caught a quick glimpse of it; I meant to add that last ppa9 change to that branch but got sidetracked
<siretart> jdong: because xtophe already notfied me about that problem, so I committed it to the branch already ;)
<siretart> no problem, I merge your changes in
<jdong> siretart: ah, cool :)
<nullack> Does this sound like an Ol changelog entry : Apply NeToU patch http://netou.co.uk?
<siretart> jdong: err, you have been using a different orig.tar.gz for uploading..
<nullack> *OK
 * siretart confused
<wgrant> siretart, jdong: Is vlc missing a depends on vlc-nox?
<wgrant> I think it needs it:
<wgrant> exec: 2: /usr/bin/vlc: not found
<wgrant> Erm, I missed the error that said that in the other terminal. Oops.
<jdong> wgrant: I could've sworn the dependency was in there
<jdong> siretart: I grabbed it from upstream, 0.9.2's tar.bz2 and repacked it to tar.gz. I did not know of any other place with an orig.tar.gz?
<wgrant> jdong: It is, yes, but I'm blind.
<siretart> jdong: the ppa?
<wgrant> Grr, ugly Qt.
<siretart> jdong: I took it from xtophe, he has used it for uploading 0.9.2 to debian, which is currently in the NEW queue there
<jdong> siretart: oh; at the time I was unaware that xtophe had an orig.tar.gz or package made
<jdong> the only package I could find on the VLC site was a native debianized tarball of some 1.0.0 git snapshot
<siretart> but I wonder how you managed to upload it with a different orig.tar.gz. soyuz should have rejected your upload
<jdong> siretart: I uploaded the initial one to the PPA
<jdong> where I spliced debian/ from your bzr branch onto the orig.tar.gz I had from when I was working on the package
<jdong> are their contents equivalent?
<siretart> aah, right, we should have copied the package from my ppa to motumedia.. damn
<siretart> let's check
<siretart> jdong: yes, the contents are identical
<jdong> whew; ok :) when we do the real upload then let's switch back to the Debian orig.tar.gz :D
<siretart> sure thing, no worries
<siretart> we still need to bribe motu-release to accept this upload, though
<jdong> indeed we do, though I don't expect it to be difficult provided testing continues to go smoothly
<jdong> are they subscribed yet?
<nullack> Ok I have a backup of my private key, but not my public key due to data loss.debuild -S -sa complains about not public key. Can I just regen, or do I need to revoke both?
<nullack> Or can I get my public key off launchpad?
<geser> nullack: yes, you can pull your public key from every keyserver you want
<iulian> Good morning
<nullack> geser : thanks :)
<nullack> Evening :)
<geser> good $timeofday :)
<iulian> Heh, hi nullack, geser.
 * wgrant agrees with nullack.
<iulian> If I have a lot of files that are copyrighted by the Free Software Foundation, Inc but the years differs from file to file, can I just write the first and the last year? For example: 'Copyright (C) 1995-2003 FSF, Inc' instead of 'Copyright (C) 1995-1997, 2000-2003 FSF, Inc'?
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure the answer there is "no".
<iulian> Ahh crap. Then the debian/copyright file is going to be full of (C)'s
<iulian> RAOF: Thanks
<RAOF> I like the machine-parsable copyright proposal for that; at least then the (C)s are all nicely arranged!
<nullack> OK! I have the debdiff
<nullack> Now what do I do? Apologies to any revu people in advance, this is my first one
<geser> nullack: what are you trying to do?
<nullack> No one felt like fixing a package I really needed fixed and rather than just fix it for myself by compiling it with the patch myself Im trying to fix this in Ubuntu
<nullack> geser : So, Ive applied the patch, done the changelog and have the debdiff
<geser> if there is a bug open for it already attach your debdiff there (else open a bug before attaching) and subscribe the correct sponsoring team
<geser> ubuntu-universe-sponsors for universe/multiverse or ubuntu-main-sponsors for main/restricted
<nullack> geser : who would be the correct sponsoring team for a multimedia package in universe?
<geser> which package is it exactly?
<nullack> geser ushare
<nullack> geser so ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<geser> yes
<nullack> geser : thanks :)
<nullack> geser : one last question please
<nullack> geser : is it considered sufficient to do a configure make install to test or should I somehow compile it into a package and test it before posting the debdiff?
<geser> nullack: it's better if you check it (= the patched package) if it builds in a pbuilder before submitting
<nullack> geser : ty
<nullack> Dammit, how do I remove pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy? build-dep works fine on my install
<udunno> and here i am
<udunno> you can't get rid of me
<udunno> i'm worse than a god damn cockroach
<orly_owl> heh
 * Hobbsee eyes #kubuntu
<geser> nullack: this usually shows a problem with build-depends. I guess it's from a intrepid pbuilder.
<geser> nullack: have you universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<nullack> geser - mate it works fine in my real environment on Intrepid, its just pbuilder
<nullack> geser - it doesnt default to universe enable?
<Hobbsee> nullack: correct.
<jpds> fta: Ping.
<Hobbsee> (last i checked, anyway)
<nullack> geser : roger, thanks Ill do a pbuilderrc
<Relaed> hi all
<Relaed> Why there is no distrubution of VBOX for Feisty Fawn ï¼
<wgrant> Relaed: Feisty is rather old.
<gnomefreak> EOL is next month for feisty isnt it?
<wgrant> gnomefreak: It is.
<gnomefreak> yep rather old is right ;)
<directhex> feisty was 7.04?
<wgrant> It is.
<directhex> Relaed, "stable" means, in debianland (and mostly in ubuntuland too) "doesn't change". something you can rely on to be the same day after day. there was no virtualbox package back in april 2007 (or in the months before april when packages are first prepared for a distro), it released without it - so it doesn't get added post-release
<Relaed> wgrant, It's on my dad's notebook, so...
<wgrant> Relaed: You want to upgrade it within a month.
<wgrant> As security updates cease soon.
<IntuitiveNipple> I've just come across a strange situation. The linux headers packages fro Hardy aren't listed (http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=linux-headers-2.6.24-21) and neither is the meta package. Am I missing something?
<orly_owl> I find your nick odd.
<IntuitiveNipple> The packages show up if a link from another package that depends on them is used, e.g. dkms
<DktrKranz> IntuitiveNipple, does http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/hardy-updates/linux-meta help?
<IntuitiveNipple> Sort of. The reason I ask is I'm trying to support a user using a DKMS package, and their Hardy system apparently has no linux-headers installed, so I was tracking back via dkms' depends to figure out why
<IntuitiveNipple> Not showing up on the search confused me
<IntuitiveNipple> If you search on "dapper" for "linux-headers" in package names only it shows results. If doing that for "hardy" it reports the search term as too generic, and provides a link "Some results have not been displayed due to the search parameters", and the only entries in that list are for dapper, not hardy
<laga> hello. i'd like to request a merge from debian. FF aside, there's a problem: the package hasnt been uploaded to debian yet because debian is frozen, according to the package maintainer. however, he has uploaded a package into his personal repository. what can i do now? simply take his package and base my merge on that?
<directhex> laga, if it's not from the main archive i don't think it counts as a merge, that's a 0ubuntu1 situation
<laga> okay, then i'll just mention the debian maintainer's changes in debian/changelog, too
<laga> and i'm so glad that the first answer i got wasn't "do you have a FFe?!?!" ;)
<directhex> pfft, even with a FFE you'll be lucky to get things uploaded ;)
<laga> oh, i've got my personal sponsor ;)
<directhex> really? can they sponsor things in main? 'cos monodoc still needs an upload
<laga> no, they can't :(
<directhex> :'(
 * laga is exceptionally cranky due to having to work on the kernel
<laga> also, my laptop is burning my leg :)
<directhex> ubuntu. where documentation is 5300 svn commits older than software. \o/
<directhex> wait, wrong tag...
<directhex> 20000 commits. Â¬_Â¬
<laga> documentation? i'm jealous ;)
<csilk> lol
<directhex> and it's only the 15th most recent Confirmed bug on the u-m-s list. any time now... ;)
<geser> directhex: for getting something sponsored in main you need sometimes pester a core-dev a little :/
<directhex> geser, apparently so.
<directhex> geser, i wonder who i can beat with a stick
 * Hobbsee beats directhex with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<Hobbsee> and before you ask, no :)
<laga> heh, i was going to suggest that..
 * Hobbsee suspects most people won't touch something containing 'mono'.
<directhex> Hobbsee, yes, i think that's the case
<directhex> i blame roy 'tinfoil hat' scheistowitz. his FUD campaign has been pretty spectacular
<slytherin> persia: you pasted ScottK's ack on bug #268914, was this intended?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/268914/+text)
<persia> slytherin: Yes.  My procedure was to open all the bugs listed on JavaTeam/MovetoUniverse, and paste that to all for which MOTU Release was subscribed.
<persia> slytherin: They all need a second ACK, and I trust you'll be able to either sort them or decide to defer them pre-beta freeze.
<slytherin> persia: Ok. Because last discussion we had with norsetto I said I would patch current source instead. So I was not sure what I should do.
<persia> slytherin: Please continue to fix all the broken bits: I was just pasting based on ScottK's request: he'd like to see these done, if they can be done right, but he's on holiday, so can't ACK later.
<slytherin> persia: so what do you suggest? patch the current version in Ubuntu or wait for second ack? I have free time today so I could probably add patches to all the pending bugs.
<persia> slytherin: You know better than I.  I think that if a member of MR has asked you to look at the current version, you'll need to provide some evidence you've done so in order to get your second ACK anyway.
<persia> So, if you can get the current version to work, use that.  If you can't, then report this, and see where you can go.
<persia> slytherin: On an unrelated note: if you have time to test http://ppa.launchpad.net/bmillemathias/ubuntu/pool/main/b/bluez-gnome/bluez-gnome_0.28-0ubuntu1~ppa2.dsc it's nearly ready (just a couple cosmetic changes to changelog and control plus a lot of testing needed)
<fta> jpds, pong
<gregor> is a program like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiled_printing included in ubuntu or maybe soon?
<persia> gregor: The answer is yes, and you'll want to ask in #ubuntu about how to do it (this isn't a support channel)
<gregor> okay, sorry for wasting your time
<persia> Bah.  Too fast.  It's not a waste: it's just selecting the appropriate forum.
<directhex> Hobbsee, it's taken me 2 and a half hours to write, but you might want to read http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/linux/51/ ;)
<slytherin> Can any motu who is not too busy please verify the fix on bug #105963 and upload it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 105963 in libdvdread "libdvdread3 on 7.04 64bit requires build-essential. " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105963
<slytherin> persia: I will patch current versions to build with openjdk. I will also edit bugs accordingly. And I will also test bluez-gnome. :-)
 * slytherin going to see a movie. Will be back after 2 hours.
<NCommander> emgent, ping
<Laney> How frozen is the freeze? I'd like to update the dirac codec to 1.0
<pochu> Laney: it's Feature Freeze, if it isn't bug-fix only, it needs a freeze exception from motu-release
<Laney> pochu: Yes, I was enquiring as to the likeliness of such an exception
<pochu> Laney: depends on many things: size of the changes, number and importance of bug fixes, how much testing it has received...
<cody-somerville> Laney, do you have a changelog?
<Laney> cody-somerville: http://diracvideo.org/node/18
<Laney> I've not done any prep for it, didn't want to waste my time if it has no chance
<TomJaeger> What format should the update be submitted in if I want to get a new upstream bugfix release sponsored?  The wiki isn't very clear on this.
<TomJaeger> "If your revision is a new upstream version, not derived from Debian, the newly generated diff.gz file is the best format of the patch."
<Laney> How is that not clear?
<TomJaeger> Does that mean the new diff.gz plus the upstream tarball?
<Laney> I've always just uploaded the diff
<TomJaeger> okay, just seemed a little weird to me since in REVU, the I uploaded the whole thing
<directhex> there's no point angling for another FFe with "mono" in the name, is there :/
<cbx33> hey hey peeps
<cbx33> guys, anyone aware of a way to make a virtual network device? like a real routeable network port, but that it's virtual
<cody-somerville> Who runs the hug type days?
<directhex> hug an ubuntu dev?
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I would ask bdmurray. He would know
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-21
<geeter> is puiparts being executed consistently as part of a universe harness?
<AnAnt_> Hello, I am making a new package for sl-modem , but it does not build in intrepid, can someone help ?
<AnAnt_> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17788419/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.sl-modem_2.9.11%7E20080817-1%7Eintrepid1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> AnAnt_: that's a common one, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags#-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2
<AnAnt_> geser: thanks
<AnAnt_> geser: is D_FORTIFY_SOURCE being used in Debian too ?
<geser> AnAnt_: afaik no
<AnAnt_> geser: 'S_IRUSR' undeclared (first use in this function)
<AnAnt_> that's what I get now
<AnAnt_> geser: nevermind, added a header file
<AnAnt_> thanks again
<iulian> In which directory do I have to install .ui files?
<iulian> /usr/share/<pkg>/?
<RainCT> How can I mark a bug as affecting Hardy? :/
<RainCT> iulian: .ui as in the replacement for .glade?
<geser> RainCT: "Nominate for release"
<RainCT> geser: ah, the "nominate" was confusing me :) thanks
<laga> well, release managers can decline the nomination, right?
<iulian> RainCT: No, I don't think so, .ui files uses an XML format.
<iulian> laga: I think that everyone from the -drivers team can decline nominations.
<pochu> it's motu for universe and core-dev for main who approve/decline nominations
<iulian> Oh, thanks for clarifying, pochu.
<geser> superm1: Hi, can you please look at bug 251330 and tell me if it's ok to sponsor it? It's sitting in the u-u-s queue for some time now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251330 in mythtv-status "mythtv-status init script lacks the 'status' action" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/251330
<iulian> pochu: So, how come Brian Murray can decline nominations?
<iulian> "The Ubuntu release manager  is Ubuntu Drivers."
<iulian> He is a member of the ubuntu-drivers team. So, everyone from that team can approve/decline nominations.
<iulian> Not only motus or core developers.
<Light-> hello, can anyone tell me how to include a .desktop file in a package?
<RainCT> Light-: add the file to the debian/ directory and install it into usr/share/pixmaps (with dh_install or whatever)
<Light-> /usr/share/pixmaps? most of my other applications have .desktop files in /usr/share/applications
<RainCT> Light-: err, I mean applications :)
 * Light- thought pixmaps was for icons
<RainCT> yea.. lapsus
<pochu> iulian: so I guess ubuntu-drivers can approve/decline for all the distro, and core-dev for main and motu for universe
<Light-> ah ok :P
<RainCT> iulian: Yes, .glade's are XML too. Anyway, does it define a GTK interface? If so, then yes, /usr/share/<packagename>/ is right (but you'll have to check if the application looks there or someone else for it)
<Light-> RainCT: so, the .desktop file is in the debian/ directory... what do I need to do to get it to the final .deb puts it in /usr/share/applications?
<Light-> s/to/so
<RainCT> Light-: does the package have a debian/install (or debian/<pkgname>.install) file?
<Light-> yep
<RainCT> Light-: then add this line to it:      debian/<pkgname>.desktop usr/share/applications
<RainCT> Light-: and basically that's it :). Note that you can validate the .desktop file with desktop-file-validate, and that the comment should start with a verb
<Light-> actually... now that I check it only has debian/control debian/files and debian/rules
<Light-> (also the changelog, copyright etc)
<RainCT> Light-: can you paste the debian/rules somewhere?
<Light-> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/48859/
<Light-> the debian/rules has an install: section
<iulian> RainCT: It's a python application, no idea where to look at.
<RainCT> iulian: well, just run it after installing from the package and see if it works :P. or run "egrep -r \.ui *" in the source
<RainCT> Light-: #	dh_install
<RainCT> Light-: uncomment that line and then add a debian/install file containing the line I told you
<Light-> ok, thanks i'll give that a go
<RainCT> Light-: (or just replace the "#    dh_install" line with  "dh_install debian/<pkgname>.desktop usr/share/applications" and then you won't need a new file)
<geser> pochu: do you know if bug 272231 needs a FFe or does if fall into the general gnome FFe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272231 in nautilus-python "Please sponsor nautilus-python 0.5.1 into intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272231
<Light-> ok, final question: in a .desktop file, eg for brasero I see "Icon=brasero", where is that defined?
<geser> as far as I know it check your icon theme for a matching icon and falls back to /usr/share/pixmaps
<Light-> ohk, thanks
<pochu> geser: I think it needs one, as it doesn't follow the GNOME release schedule (so it has no freezes upstream)
<pochu> geser: but seb128 would know for sure
<pochu> geser: OTOH motu-release delegated on Seb for GNOME packages
<pochu> so he can decide whether it fits or not for an exception
<geser> pochu: thanks, will ask seb128
<slytherin> persia: there?
<persia> slytherin: Yes.
<slytherin> persia: Can you please take care of bug #268914 before the confusion multiplies?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268914 in javassist "Please build with openjdk so it can be moved to universe" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268914
<persia> slytherin: Added to my list.  People should read debdiffs :)
<slytherin> :-)
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: you can ack main FFe, can't you?
<superm1> geser, isn't kirkland MOTU?
<superm1> geser, oh nvm, it looks like someone luca already mentioned that :)
<geser> superm1: now yes, but not as the bug was filed
<siretart> devfil_: around?
<siretart> devfil_: re bug #255837, could you please improve the comments on your patches?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255837 in collectd "collectd FTBFS in intrepid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255837
<siretart> devfil_: that way they are unlikely to get accepted upstream, because they are not self explanatory at all
<sebner> siretart: ah, good to see you. Just wanted to tell you that I really have to time to do this mlt thing (damn summer job). At least for the next 2 weeks and as it needs a FFe ..
<siretart> sebner: you mean no time?
<sebner> siretart: ah yes
<devfil_> siretart: ok, I will np
<directhex> which package managers in ubuntu don't install recommends by default?
<iulian> apt-get install --no-install-recommends
<asac> emgent: hey
<asac> you uploaded all-in-one-sidebar ... ignoring that its maintained in bzr
<asac> emgent: i will now just upload without your changes ;) ... feel free to submit those changes as a bzr branch ;)
<directhex> iulian, i don't think that counts as "by default"
<asac> emgent: ok i integrated your standard-versions bump
<asac> so all should be there now
<iulian> directhex: Ahh, sorry, misread
<asac> emgent: ok all fine again i think ;) ... maybe remember to "not" ignore the warning apt-get source spits out when there is a Vcs-Bzr header in control :)
<nxvl> asac: hi! i file a bug against network-manager-openvpn, that as i understand you touched last
<nxvl> asac: Bug 272689
<asac> nxvl: i am more or less the one to talk to yes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272689 in network-manager-openvpn "Fails to upgrade network configurations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272689
<asac> buzt i am out for 10 minutes ;)
<asac> nxvl: thats a known bug i am quite sure
<asac> problem is that someone needs to implement the migration code from what i understand
<asac> and the import code might be broken
<nxvl> asac: did you have any reference on that? (as in a link to read and implement)
<asac> nxvl: not in my head ... and searching in launchpad is painful ;)
<asac> nxvl: i think it was on the networkmanager mailing list
<asac> not long ago
<asac> most likely in sep ... maybe aug
<jrib> user in #ubuntu was using hardy-proposed main and now needs to downgrade.  Flannel pointed out to me that he could pin hardy-proposed packages to 1001.  However, I'm not sure how to match only hardy-proposed in the "Pin:" line
<crimsun> Pin: release a=hardy-proposed
<Flannel> He wants to downgrade from -proposed
<jrib> erm, I tried that I swear crimsun :) (it works)
<jrib> thanks
<crimsun> np
<directhex> i need to find a core dev to beat with the "upload this package, you!" stick.
<\sh> siretart: when you read this, please give me a ring tomorrow morning I need someone who can provide some bandwidth for testing a new 4gbit/s line
<\sh> siretart: and don't forget the "kinderschnitzel" this week .. planed is to stay in nbg until wednesday ,)
<\sh> good night until tomorrow
<azeem> asac: were those dozen+ mails due to #272772 necessary?
<asac> azeem: yeah. ignore
<azeem> I'll just remove myself from the respective team I think
<asac> azeem: which team is that?
<azeem> asac: apparently the debichem team through gnome-chemistry-utils
<asac> azeem: yeah. wont take long ... then the mail wont happen anymore :)
<RainCT> good night
<crimsun> tcsh debdiff (#86683) pushed.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-14
<ScottK> superm1: ^^^ Would you mind reviewing that?
<ScottK> superm1: Also, I'm going to look at the perl module you need in a few hours.
<ScottK> superm1: Looking at your perl module now.
<superm1> ScottK, basically the source package got renamed in debian, and someone deleted the old one in ubuntu without pulling in the new one
<ScottK> yeah.  figured that out.
<ScottK> Just checking through it anyway ....
<ScottK> superm1:  libimage-size-perl is through New (source and binary), so just need a publisher run now.
<superm1> cool thanks ScottK
<superm1> i sponsored that thing you pointed at earlier too
<ScottK> superm1: Thanks.
<ScottK> Whenever someone says DKMS, I think of you....
<StevenK> That sounds like a back-handed compliment
<ScottK> Heh.  I guess it depends on what you think of DKMS.
<ScottK> Hello StevenK.
<Ryan52> asac: hm. with your patch (and a few other tweaks) applied trying to build under Debian, I get this failure: http://slexy.org/raw/s21QsPRVLf
<Ryan52> asac: do you have any idea what's wrong?
<micahg> Ryan52: asac's probably sleeping
<Ryan52> micahg: he'll probably look at his away log tho :)
<micahg> indeed
<maxb> If any universe sponsor feels like a quick simple review, bug 429161
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429161 in pysvn "pysvn 1.7.0-1ubuntu3 is completely broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429161
<ScottK> maxb: Doesn't that just put it back like it was for ubuntu2 (and then it was uninstallable)?
<maxb> the difference is that the files have the proper names before dh_pycentral runs
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> OK.  Makes sense.
<ScottK> I'll sponsor it.
<maxb> thanks
<ScottK> maxb: BTW, if you find I broke something else, feel free to ping me directly about getting it fixed.
<ScottK> maxb: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu (and catching/fixing my mistake).
<fabrice_sp> persia, mojito is FTBFS because it misses twitter-glib. Do you of any plan to sync it in Karmic?
<fabrice_sp> s/do you/do you know/
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: IIRC there is an FFe pending.  You might make sure the relationship with mojito is mentioned in the bug.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, I'll check that. Thanks!
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> hey dholbach !
<fabrice_sp> good morning
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<jetienne> q. i need to store a pidfile, but as a normal user (not root), what is the proper directory to store it ?
<jmarsden> jetienne: Create one /var/run/whatever and chown it to the user concerned.
<jetienne> jmarsden: it will be removed on boot, no ?
<jmarsden> I'm not sure... I don't think it will be removed by default.
<jetienne> hm ok thanks
<jmarsden> jetienne: For examples see what bacula or openldap do
<jetienne> jmarsden: ok i will
<AnAnt> Hello, debian made a new release of mutt that Recommends default-mta instead of exim4, which means, that it no more needs merge, but sync. Also there are some patches in that debian release. So the question is, should I file a sync request for mutt ? or should that wait for karmic+1 ?
<StevenK> Certainly, file a sync request
<AnAnt> StevenK: are you the one on crack ?
<Hobbsee> that depends how much of the new queue he's been forced to do on any given day
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> AnAnt: It's just a saying of "Oh, I missed something"
<AnAnt> StevenK: ok
<AnAnt> btw, can someone comment on this bug 427562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427562 in tablelist "tklib already contain tablelist package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427562
<Hosein-mec> hi
<Hosein-mec> i have a problem exactly like this => http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=616544
<Hosein-mec> i dont know how to " Adding the non-interactive "cmake" command to the debian/rules "
<Hosein-mec> this is my debian/rule :
<Hosein-mec> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/139711/
<andv> Hosein-mec, I never used cmake myself, but anyway I guess you should make it running on configure call
<Hosein-mec> my main problem is this:  https://launchpad.net/~hoseinhz63/+archive/ppa/+build/1241869
<andv> Hosein-mec, your source files should have a README or an INSTALL that tells you which commands you should run to configure / build / install
<AnAnt> dh 7 supports cmake
<AnAnt> if I recall correctly, dh_auto_build will magically detect this cmake thing
<andv> Hosein-mec, yeah, found it
<Hosein-mec> andv: yes => http://paste.pocoo.org/show/139712/
<andv> Hosein-mec, if you need cmake to run on build target
<andv> Hosein-mec, you should remove the make call on debian/rules
<andv> Hosein-mec, and put the right cmake rule in there
<soren> YokoZar: I have a few applications running in wine. When they quit, the process doesn't terminate, but starts spinning and eating lots and lots of CPU. Assuming this is not by design (to give you that warm, fuzzy, ol'e, Windowsy feel) is this a common/known problem?
<andv> Hosein-mec, as I said, I didnt use cmake myself so I don't know the specific options or flags to give it
<andv> Hosein-mec, but anyway $(MAKE) should *not* be there if you use cmake
<Hosein-mec> andv: thanks. can u tell me exactly which line ? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/139711/
<andv> around ~30
<Hosein-mec> andv: ok thanks. i go try again
<andv> ok, np
<YokoZar> soren: It seems to happen to me with any application that uses audio
<YokoZar> soren: and not just wine
<soren> YokoZar: Oh. This is a wine-only problem for me.
<soren> YokoZar: Sometimes wineserver joins the spinning frenzy as well.
<YokoZar> soren: if alt+f1 killall -9 pulseaudio doesn't let them quit well then something else is afoot
<YokoZar> well I should say only some applications that use audio for me.  One is an SDL full screen game that never quits well.  Are these wine apps similar?
<YokoZar> I would expect ms paint to quit well but something like half life 2 to run into the same audio problem I have elsewhere
<soren> YokoZar: They're two dictionaries I use ocasionally. I suppose they may go "beep" if I mistype something.
<YokoZar> hmmm
<YokoZar> can you run notepad and quit it without problem?
 * soren treis
<soren> tries, even.
 * soren doesn't know how to trei
<soren> YokoZar: Yup, notepad quits just ifne.
<soren> fine, even.
 * soren types very poorly today.
<YokoZar> Have you tried the wine1.2 package instead of the wine package?
<YokoZar> It may just be an old fashioned wine bug
<YokoZar> especially if the apps are similar
<Hosein-mec> andv: i added 2 commands that needed for compile and make that were in Install readme. like this : http://paste.pocoo.org/show/139721/
<Laney> Anyone from motu-release here?
<Hosein-mec> andv: this is ture ?
<andv> Hosein-mec, remove the $ in front of cmake
<andv> Hosein-mec, and make should be removed as well I guess
<soren> YokoZar: Oh, I didn't realise there were several wines in the archive. I'll try 1.2
<soren> YokoZar: 22747 soren     20   0 2603m  21m  10m R   66  1.1   0:23.68 Engelskordbog20
<soren>                                                     ^^
<soren> :(
<soren> Oh, and wineserver is right beneath it with:
<soren> 22750 soren     20   0  5624 2768  632 S   34  0.1   0:09.77 wineserver
<soren> For a total of 100%. Yay for dualcore :)
<YokoZar> hmmm
<soren> YokoZar: I do hear a difference in my earphones when I start the app, though.
<YokoZar> this might be related https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/428815
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428815 in wine1.2 "Sound output bypasses pulseaudio Alsa plugin on 64 bit host." [Undecided,Invalid]
<soren> YokoZar: Oh, right. Which sound output thing should I use?
<YokoZar> try unchecking all of them to test
<soren> YokoZar: Oh. Good call.
<soren> YokoZar: Same.
<YokoZar> ok that's good news I guess
<soren> Yes, I'm ecstatic :)
<soren> YokoZar: I get a ton of these: 0009: get_message() = PENDING { win=00000000, msg=00000000, wparam=00000000, lparam=00000000, type=0, time=00000000, active_hooks=80000045, total=0, data={} }
<soren> YokoZar: ...if I start wineserver with -d.
<YokoZar> If it's any consolation there are a couple wine devs trying to get Wine git to actually build in karmic at the moment (apparently some weirdness with mpg123)
<YokoZar> So if notepad works fine it might just be your app causing it
<YokoZar> do you have any more normal apps you can test with
<soren> YokoZar: Nope. Those are the only ones.
<slytherin> ScottK: ping
<Hosein-mec> andv: is there any guide ti se cmake in debian/rules ?
<Hosein-mec> *to
<soren> YokoZar: From the same publisher, so they're very similar.
<YokoZar> Yeah it could just be those apps and a normal wine bug still
<andv> Hosein-mec, don't know sorry : /
<YokoZar> soren: Go download windows firefox or something and see if that works normally ;)
<andv> Hosein-mec, you should search some examples
<soren> YokoZar: Maybe some other day.. :/
<soren> YokoZar: Sorry.
<YokoZar> soren: anyway, thanks -- sometimes there are wine-wide issues and they look similar to this, but if notepad works it's probably just an app bug
<YokoZar> although a deadlock in wineserver is interesting
<soren> YokoZar: Wineserver seems to die off when I kill the app.
<YokoZar> soren: can you wineserver -k
<YokoZar> or do you have to kill -9 the process
<soren> Not sure.
<slytherin> siretart: ping, do you mind if I try no-change rebuild of jack-audio-connection-kit to fix libffdoN dependency?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :D
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: hi
<sebner> sistpoty|work: desmume got approved btw
<sistpoty|work> hi slytherin
<sistpoty|work> sebner: saw it :)
<sebner> :)
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: About bug #427463 should I subscribe archive team?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427463 in java-gnome "FFe: Sync java-gnome 4.0.13-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427463
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: not yet, the FFe is approved if two motu-release team members give an ack, so you'll need another +1
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: Isn't ScottK's comment counted as +1?
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: not too sure actually, ScottK?
<_ChanD_> is here used to request a shell?
<slytherin> what shell?
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I just talked to neuxiz DM, he'll release tomorrow (We'll have to backport the anti-upgrade-warning patch once it's ready though)
<sistpoty|work> sebner: oh, nice
<sebner> sistpoty|work: should I do the paperwork once it's needed?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: yes, please
<sebner> sistpoty|work: kk, the kids get nervous bug #355854  :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 355854 in nexuiz "Please upgrade to nexuiz 2.5.1" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/355854
<ScottK> slytherin and sistpoty|work: That was not a +1, just a "then I won't say no".
<sistpoty|work> that's what I assumed, thanks for making it clear ScottK
<slytherin> ScottK: Thanks for clarification.
<ScottK> james_w: I just uploaded claws-mail without the dillo viewer, so dillo can die now.
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I hate FFe. nexuiz 2.5.2 is near :P
<sistpoty|work> hehe
<geser> sebner: how do you decided to proceed in the libjgrapht-java case?
<sebner> geser: first step was to wait until you appear and ask for your thoughts ^^, I'm fine with both solutions so I wanted to hear what you think
<geser> I'm fine with both solutions too, but I tend towards syncing libjgrapht0.6-java if possible as libjgrapht-java has some issues like mentioned by the DD (I assume it's about the included .jars in the tarball) which got removed in 0.6.0-8 and replaced with build-dependencies (less duplicated code)
<slytherin> geser: sebner: AFAIK, the latest version in Debian unstable is much better. A simple sync should be possible.
<sebner> geser: ACK, and to clear things, we need a FFe?
<geser> slytherin: not really as the source package got renamed
<slytherin> oh, did it? I thought it was same. Didn't pay attention to the source package name.
<geser> libjgrapht-java exists only in experimental (the 0.7 version) and 0.6 is packaged as libjgrapht-java
<geser> the last one should be libjgrapht0.6-java
<geser> (all source package names)
<geser> slytherin: the current libjgrapht-java in Ubuntu is split across universe and multiverse as sebner found out. we are discussion what's the best solution now: fix the component mess or sync the improved package
<geser> syncing the new source package might need a FFe (we are not sure about it)
<slytherin> sync is better option in my opinion.
<sebner> geser: I'll ask in -devel now
<geser> sistpoty|work: do we need a FFe to sync a renamed source package?
<sistpoty|work> geser: if it's the same package, no. But you'll need an archive admin ;)
<sistpoty|work> (same package contents even)
<geser> it's the same upstream version (minus some removed .jars)
<sistpoty|work> geser: then I assume there also shouldn't be problems getting it new'd :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: geser : james_w thinks we don't need a FFe and as sistpoty|work already agreed we are fine imho
<geser> sebner: looks like you can go on with syncing
<geser> and don't forget to get the current source removed once the new source package is in (add a note to not add it to the sync blacklist as the package might come back when libjgrapht-java (v0.7) moves from experimental to unstable)
<sebner> geser: will then a removal of new 0.6 will be necessary again?
<geser> no, it's a different API as far I can tell from the changelog entries
<sebner> kk
<geser> so it will stay till it gets removed from Debian too
<superm1> james_w, geser sistpoty|work how come this has happened to a couple of packages in the last few days?  i just had to file a bug about image-size being renamed to libimage-size-perl yesterday
<superm1> shouldn't we *not* be automatically removing source packages outside of the autosync period to avoid this type of problem and require manual solutions?
<geser> superm1: it looks like some cleanup was done over the weekend (gtk1.2 and glib1.2 got removed, and some more apparently)
<sebner> geser: bah, edge is br0ken again for me
<geser> don't know if for all removed package a bug was opened
<geser> sebner: how?
<sebner> geser: If I try to file the sync request (only the titel so far) I get timeout
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> huhu bddebian :)
<geser> luckily you can use requestsync (the version in karmic) without the LP API
<sebner> geser: requestsync never worked for me xD
<geser> have you tried the current version in karmic?
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<sebner> geser: cool stuff, worked xD
<geser> james_w: do you plan to cherry-pick the changes from launchpadlib r54 to have support for the stable LP API in python-launchpadlib?
<sistpoty|work> superm1: iirc the removal script was run recently (not too sure why, but could have been to get rid of a few ftbfs bugs)
<sistpoty|work> superm1: what broke by this though? the binary package name didn't change?
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<superm1> sistpoty|work, the new package wasn't autosynced because we're not in the autosync phase
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: For superm1's case it also got NBS'ed I think.
<superm1> so i had to file a bug to get it synced in
<quentusrex> How do I do an 'apt-get build-dep ./local-package.deb' ?
<quentusrex> I have the dsc, and .changes files
<superm1> so i just want to make sure we avoid doing this in the future outside of the autosync phase to prevent manually having to pull in new packages like this
<sistpoty|work> superm1: interesting, because there are rdeps. Might have been an oversight, but you'd have to ask an archive admin for details
<ScottK> superm1: I think it's a good UDS topic.
<superm1> sistpoty|work, is there a document somewhere pointing who did this, so we can find out if it was just an oversight, a policy problem then, or a script problem?
<superm1> ScottK, yeah i agree, depending on the root cause :)
<sistpoty|work> superm1: yes: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/image-size/3.2-1
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> superm1: looks like you should ask pitti ;)
<james_w> geser: hadn't thought about it
<james_w> geser: it's just a constant, but would be worth having I think
<geser> yes, so some scripts could use it in karmic and not be forced to use the EDGE one (in case it breaks again)
<geser> ScottK, sistpoty|work: another gone missing package: bug 429420
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429420 in ubuntu "FFe: Sync botan1.8 1.8.6-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429420
<ScottK> geser: I think "whoops, lost the package, let's get it back" is a bug fix.
<sistpoty|work> *nod*
<RoAkSoAx> morning
<DktrKranz> soren: scott pointed me you could need sponsoring with python-mhash, if you need a sponsor feel free to ping me :)
<ScottK> (for Debian, just to be clear)
<geser> any C coder available to double-check a patch? http://paste.ubuntu.com/271027/
<geser> it's for the usual "invalid conversion" error from a FTBFS
<sistpoty|work> geser: the first snippet looks overly complex... since the original version had general_lang on the stack, you could simply cast the result to (char *)
<geser> sistpoty|work: one problem was that the code in line 1835+1836 should probably work on general_lang to strip the language variant
<sistpoty|work> geser: you can also simply cast away the const in the second snippet, zone is not denoted as const, so it's safe to be modified
<geser> so I modified it first to strchr(general_lang, '-')[0] = 0; as we are sure that lang contains a "-" (and general_lang then too)
<geser> just to releasize that the "-" could be outside the 32 chars, so I changed it more
<sistpoty|work> geser: oh, sorry, misread there a lang for a general_lang :(
<sistpoty|work> geser: how is lang declared?
<geser> the easy change would be to change lang to general_lang in those two lines and ignore lang > 32 chars long
<geser> didn't track it till the end but it's the lang attribute of a xml element, e.g. <html lang="de-DE">
<geser> or similar
<sistpoty|work> geser: no, I meant if it is a char * or a const char *
<geser> const char * (line 1821)
<geser> and from the description for this function I guess it's a bug that the current code modifies lang at all
<geser> if lang is e.g. "fr-FR" then general_lang should be "fr", but lang still be prefered to general_lang
<geser> but the current code modifies lang to "fr" and keeps general_lang at "fr-FR" and changing the order in effect
<sistpoty|work> hm... well, then your patch seems to do the right thing
<sistpoty|work> (at least from what I can gather by looking at the patch)
<geser> I guess I try contacting upstream about it before I upload
<sistpoty|work> geser: sounds like a good idea :)
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<Ng> am I right in vaguely remembering that there's some wicked new magic for packaging python stuff?
 * Ng looks at dholbach 
<dholbach> err, debhelper 7?
<ScottK> dholbach: I think he's thinking about quickly
<Ng> dholbach: possibly, I didn't pay much attention at the time I saw references to it. Is there a handy URL I should go and read?
<Ng> ScottK: no not quickly, unless that can take an existing python app and package it
<ScottK> Nope
<dholbach> ScottK: I haven't played with it yet, but I guess you need to use it for the whole project
<ScottK> Yeah
<Ng> I already finished coding, so I think it's too late for quickly to help me
<dholbach> alright, I need to head out - see you guys tomorrow
<dholbach> Ng: try out debhelper 7 :)
<dholbach> just start with something like this
<dholbach> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<dholbach> %:
<dholbach> 	dh $@
<RoAkSoAx> dholbach, Heya! I sent you my answers already, have you received them?
<dholbach> RoAkSoAx: no, I'm afraid not
<james_w> Ng: python-distutils-extra is probably what you are thinking of
<dholbach> which email did you send them to?
<Ng> james_w: that also sounds vaguely familiar
<dholbach> can you resend to dholbach at ubuntu dot com?
<dholbach> RoAkSoAx: ^
<Ng> hmm I suppose I should write a setup.py ;)
<RoAkSoAx> dholbach, I just replied to the email. And, done, I forwarded it to that other email just now!
<dholbach> thanks RoAkSoAx
<Ng> james_w: is there a reasonably simple guide for using that?
<dholbach> RoAkSoAx: bah - it went to spam!
<dholbach> RoAkSoAx: will have a look into it tomorrow!
<Ng> maybe I should just persuade nxvl that my new code is as awesome as Terminator and get him to package it too ;)
<RoAkSoAx> dholbach, haha ok awesome :) thanks.
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day! see you tomorrow! :)
<james_w> Ng: not that I know of, sorry
<Ng> ok
<Ng> even if there was I bet it doesn't handle screensavers, because I'm probably the only person ever to have tried writing a gnome screensaver in python ;)
<mzz> Ng: yeah, write a setup.py, packaging is fairly straightforward once you have one (there's a guide on the wiki somewhere)
<mzz> Ng: I think the first step in the guide is "write a setup.py if what you're packaging doesn't have a build system yet" :)
<Ng> heh
<Ng> that would make sense :)
<mzz> (there's a bit of magic involved to support multiple python versions automatically, but that's all handled for you automagically if you use cdbs, and still mostly automatically if you use just debhelper, especially if it's a pure python thing)
<mzz> I haven't used python-distutils-extra myself.
<ScottK> Last time I timed myself it took less than an hour to do a python package once I had setup.py and most of that was making sure I had debian/copyright correct.
<mzz> that sounds about right
<mzz> (if there's a page out there describing what open source software authors should do to write easily packageable software I wish "explicitly mention which version(s) of the gpl you're distributing under" to be prominently mentioned)
<slytherin> hyperair: there?
<hyperair> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> hyperair: remuco for removed from Ubuntu. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/remuco-server/+publishinghistory :-(
<RoAkSoAx> should changes in a config.guess file appear on debdiff, or in such case, should they be applied when uploading?
<hyperair> ah figures. i did get remuco-server removed from debian didn't i?
<slytherin> hyperair: right, but the replacement is not in Ubuntu yet, right.
<hyperair> slytherin: right. i really need to find time to fix remuco
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys, should changes in a config.guess file be removed from a debdiff, or in such case, should they be applied when uploading?
<Laney> filter it out
<andv> RoAkSoAx, if the changes are auto-generated during build they should be removed
<andv> if you autotoolized the source it shouldnt appear on the debdiff anyway
<andv> if you use autotools run the on rules, not randomly on the source
<andv> * them
<pochu> or put the changes on a patch
<pochu> (that's what I do)
<RoAkSoAx> ok so I should remove those changes from the debdiff, patch a new source with that debdiff, debuild -S and upload?
<andv> RoAkSoAx, if those changes are not wanted they should be removed
<andv> therefore you remove then and you should have a clean debdiff
<RoAkSoAx> andv, those changes are introduced automatically. So, when I debdiff the debian dsc with the new ubuntu dsc those changes appear in the debdiff.
<andv> RoAkSoAx, then remove then
<andv> * them
<andv> RoAkSoAx, check out diff.gz after debuild
<andv> RoAkSoAx, it would be nice that those changes not appear on the diff.gz
<fabrice_sp> kklimonda, there? It's about bug #409188
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 409188 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] twitter-glib" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409188
<RoAkSoAx> andv, they appear in the diff.gz. How would I remove them if they are automatically generated?
<pochu> RoAkSoAx: that's likely because there's something wrong in debian/rules
<pochu> i.e. it's copying /usr/share/foo/config.guess in build and not cleaning it in clean
<RoAkSoAx> pochu, this is the debdiff: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/271118/
<pochu> or the other way round...
<pochu> RoAkSoAx: can you paste debian/rules?
<andv> RoAkSoAx, do you remove those files in the clean target?
<andv> they are automatically generated so you can remove them
<RoAkSoAx> pochu, this is the rule: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/271119/
<andv> RoAkSoAx, yeah, u don't remove them
<andv> RoAkSoAx, add a clean target for it
<RoAkSoAx> andv, thanks  :)
<andv> np, let me know if it worked
<pochu> yeah what I guessed :)
<pochu> or just run dpkg-source -b foo-1.0/, rather than debuild
<pochu> if you don't want to increase the diff with debian
<RoAkSoAx> pochu, andv : ok I've added "-rm config.guess config.sub" to the clean target before dh_clean and in the debdiff I now get this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/271127/
<andv> RoAkSoAx, try placing it before distclean
<andv> use rm -f
<RoAkSoAx> andv, the same, changes are still showed in the debdiff
<andv> RoAkSoAx, cause of this i guess:
<andv> ifneq "$(wildcard /usr/share/misc/config.sub)" ""
<andv> 	cp -f /usr/share/misc/config.sub config.sub
<RoAkSoAx> andv, yes that's the reason, but should those changes be applied? I mean, if that "if" stays there, changes on those files will always be showed on the debdiff.
<andv> RoAkSoAx, yes, does previous packages got that in the diff.gz?
<Laney> you should remove them in the clean target
<andv> Laney, he tried that already
<andv> read backlog
<Laney> then all you'd see is it being deleted in the debdiff
<Laney> thats alright
<RoAkSoAx> andv, yes, diff.gz from debian also contains changes in config.sub and config.guess
<andv> RoAkSoAx, so keep them
<andv> you will have a tainted diff
<andv> but as long as it builds / works fine
<RoAkSoAx> andv, ok will do. Thanks guys!
<andv> np
<dhillon-v10> hi all  I need some help with getting source of a package with  dget
<geser> what problem do you have?
<Daviey> Hi, if i'm moving a script from one package to another.. dropping it in one, introducing it in another, same name and install path
<Daviey> should the packages contain a Conflicts for versions pre change?
<Daviey> They should be entering the archive at the same time, so should it matter?
<Daviey> (for karmic)
<geser> Replaces would be a better choice
<Daviey> geser: Hmm.. i don't follow.. the rest of the orginal packages still exist
<Daviey> just a single script is being ported
<geser> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-replaces, 7.6.1 Overwriting files in other packages
<geser> that's exactly what you want
<Daviey> geser: thanks, i'll read :)
<geser> it tells dpkg that's ok that pkg_b overwrites some files which're also in pkg_a
<nxvl> james_w: ping
<james_w> hey nxvl
<james_w> how's it going?
<nxvl> james_w: good
<nxvl> james_w: i was looking for information on bzr packaging, but i don't remember where are the wiki pages or if there are new ones
<nxvl> can you please point me to the docs?
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation
<james_w> and /usr/share/doc/bzr-builddeb/user_manual
<nxvl> james_w: thank you!
<mruiz> james_w, how are you going?
<cody-somerville> james_w, I'm using bzr-builder. My packaging branch has the debian directory contents in a directory called debian so when I nest it, I have to nest it inside a directory and can't nest in the root of the branch as a bzr branch already exists there and is locked. So what I'm doing is nesting it in debian and moving debian/debian/* into debian/ and rmdiring debian/debian - is there a simpler way to do this?
<cody-somerville> (without breaking my ability to continue to merge in work from debian's branch)
<james_w> hi mruiz
<james_w> hey cody
<mruiz> james_w, thanks for your reply :-)
<james_w> cody-somerville: you're the second person with that issue. I haven't thought of an elegant solution yet
<james_w> there may not even be one
<james_w> mruiz: np :-)
<mruiz> james_w, I got the source of a package and I want to make changes. Should I create a new branch ?
<james_w> yuppers
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys, when fixing a ftbfs, I get a lintian warning about that the compat level is deprecated. Should I raise the compat level?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: I wouldn't unless you go through the package and make sure it meets the requirements of the new compat level.
<ScottK> james_w: If I'm working on a project where I'm trying to convince them to use bzr and I have to deal with git fans complaining bzr is slow, what repository format do I want to be super fast (small project > a dozen developers)?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, cool thanks. And what about debian-rules-calls-debhelper-in-odd-order dh_makeshlibs or dh_desktop-is-deprecated?
<ScottK> I'd understand the odd-order one and see if it does it for a good reason.
<ScottK> The others aren't particularly exciting, I don't think.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok cool thanks :)
<Ng> so really really strange problem. I'm running karmic and have only py2.6 installed, I've just packaged my app (a python package and a python script), installed the package and the script fails because it can't import my pthon package, but if I run the python interpreter by hand I can import it
<james_w> ScottK: the default format in the about to be released 2.0 is the latest and greatest
<james_w> Ng: what's the #! of the script?
<ScottK> james_w: How is that for compatibility with current bzr?
<james_w> it was 1.16 or 1.17 that is the first to be able to read it
<Ng> james_w: /usr/bin/python
<james_w> the latter I think
<ScottK> I see 1.14-rich-root as the most current format (I need git-bzr to work)
<Ng> hhand /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages is in sys.path, which is where pycentral has put the module
<Ng> -hh
<soren> Ng: Is the package on revu or something?
<james_w> Ng: and I assume that it doesn't do sys.path munging, relative imports or nothing?
<Ng> soren: newp, I only made it a few minutes ago
<ScottK> OK.   I guess that means I need to get a bzr backport going.
<Ng> james_w: it's a "from foo.bar import Baz" where "class Baz:" is in /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/foo/bar.py
<james_w> what's the variant of ImportError you get?
<Ng> soren: it is on LP though, bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cmsj/lifesaver/trunk/
<james_w> module foo.bar has no member Baz, or module foo has no member bar
<Ng> james_w: ImportError: No module named bar
<james_w> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/foo/__init__.py exists?
<Ng> james_w: yep. it's just got "pass" in it, but it exists
<soren> Ng: can you paste the full error?
<james_w> and you say that "/usr/bin/python -c 'from foo.bar import Baz'" works?
<Ng> http://paste2.org/p/425384
<Ng> james_w: yep
<james_w> recursion!
<Ng> -(cmsj@kiryo)-(~)- /usr/bin/python -c 'from lifesaver.twitter import Twitter'
<Ng> -(cmsj@kiryo)-(~)-
<james_w> lifesaver.py
<james_w> your script matches the module name
<geser> Ng: does the script perhaps modify the search path?
<james_w> so it's shadowing the installed module
<james_w> causing it to look under that
<james_w> causing it to try reading lifesaver.py
<Ng> james_w: oh. that's quite annoying ;)
<james_w> and then bailing before the infinite recursion strikes
<Ng> james_w: how come that doesn't happen when I do a ./lifesaver.py ?
<james_w> *handwave*
<james_w> no idea
<Ng> ohhhh, because pycentral knows about /usr/lib/xscreensaver/lifesaver.pyc
<Ng> but not ~/code/blah/lifesaver.py
<Ng> hmm
<Ng> I'll go figure out a better name for either the module or the script. thank you very much :)
 * Ng wonders how wildly wrong it is to be installing the script in the screensaver directory with data_files
<geser> james_w: any idea how to force the updated from python-zopeinterface to python-zope.interface? I've just seen that I still had the old package installed as it still fulfills the dependencies (e.g. for python-lazr-restfulclient)
<james_w> geser: hmm, good question
<james_w> we may need a transitional package
<james_w> I'm not in the mood for thinking it through right now though
<geser> an other solution would be drop the "| python-zopeinterface" for one central package so that it pulls in python-zope.interface
<dtchen> straightforward fix for oprofile at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31803795/oprofile_0.9.4%2Bcvs20090629-2ubuntu2.debdiff
<c_korn> is there a script to get the changelog of a specified package which is installed ?
<c_korn> hm, I think zcat /usr/share/doc/$1/changelog.Debian.gz | less is enough :P
<azeem> or zless
<c_korn> azeem: thanks, never heard of that :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-15
<dhillon-v10> hi all I need some help getting the source of a package with dget
<andv> dhillon-v10, whats the problem?
<dhillon-v10> andv: did you get my email
<andv> dhillon-v10, yes, was finishing something
<andv> dhillon-v10, anyway the verification failed is ok
<andv> the package is signed by a key ID which is different from your key
<andv> that's why it fails
<dhillon-v10> andv: For that reason the ~ wasn't present
<dhillon-v10> andv: I looked again and again in the control file, the ~ was absent
<andv> dhillon-v10, I gave a dget -xu https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/livehttpheaders_0.15-0ubuntu1.dsc
<andv> and it worked
<andv> dhillon-v10, if it's absent just add it
<dhillon-v10> for some strange reason it actually worked this time
<dhillon-v10> thanks :)
<andv> np
<dhillon-v10> andv: again the ~ isn't present in build depends
<andv> dhillon-v10, if it's not there add it
<andv> yourself
<dhillon-v10> okay that's the answer I was looking for, do you want for all instances :)
<andv> make a debdiff and add it into the bug report
<andv> :)
<dhillon-v10> andv: this task was relatively easy but required carefully analysis thanks for you help
<andv> np
<dhillon-v10> alright done
<dhillon-v10> how do I submit the patch now, just go to LP and attach it with the bug file
<mruiz> hi all
<james_w> thanks nxvl
<zooko> Could I interest someone in uploading Tahoe-LAFS into Karmic?
<zooko> It is all FFe'ed and approved and reviewed and good to go.
<jtimberman> Can someone please review launchpad # 424576, to bump the chef version to match upstream?
<jtimberman> i provided a debdiff on the ticket.
<jtimberman> there's some important bug fixes in that release..
<zooko> Oh, I see that iulian wanted to wait for a new version of pycryptopp: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<ScottK> jtimberman: Is it just bug fixes?
<LaserJock> !info mpfr
<ubottu> Package mpfr does not exist in jaunty
<LaserJock> !info libmpfr1
<ubottu> Package libmpfr1 does not exist in jaunty
<jtimberman> ScottK: yeah, think so. some important ones though per our CTO :)
<ScottK> LaserJock: We're considering putting a small sampling of kdeedu apps on the netbook ISO (it's not limited to CD size).  I was wondering if you had any suggestions for what might be useful on a netbook?
<LaserJock> ScottK: ktouch? :-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: You tell me, you're the expert.  We can discuss on #kubuntu-netbook if you want.
<arand> How to I grab bzr code from LP in a rush?
<arand> nvm, found the lp howto
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Good morning dholbach !
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp!
<mruiz> guten morgen
<mruiz> dholbach, thanks for the upload... since I came back, I have forgotten some things
<dholbach> no worries :)
<mruiz> dholbach, but I'm baaack
<dholbach> :-)
<slytherin> Can anyone please provide me with output of this command on a karmic installation - pkg-config --cflags libxul-embedding
<jussi01> slytherin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/271377/
<slytherin> jussi01: You need to install package xulrunner-dev.
<dholbach> ttx is reviewing in #ubuntu-reviews
<jussi01> slytherin: jussi@eagle:~$ pkg-config --cflags libxul-embedding
<jussi01> -DXPCOM_GLUE -fshort-wchar -I/usr/include/xulrunner-1.9.1.3/stable
<slytherin> jussi01: Thanks. This is missing nspr includes.
<jussi01> yw
<slytherin> asac: any idea why 'pkg-config --cflags libxul-embedding' does not include nspr headers? They were included in xulrunner 1.9.
<asac> slytherin: yes.
<asac> its bug 427638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427638 in xiphos "xulrunner includes no longer have nspr headers; explicit link against nspr is required." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427638
<asac> i am about to fix that
<slytherin> asac: Thanks. I should have looked through the bugs.
<asac> no problem
<asac> i shoudl really fix this pronto ;)
<alus> nginx released a security fix yesterday, at version 0.6.39. ubuntu base 9.04 still lists 0.6.35 in apt
<alus> when will a new package be available?
<slytherin> !sru | alus
<ubottu> alus: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<hyperair> how does something enter <release>-security?
<geser> someone prepares a patch (debdiff) and subscribes ~ubuntu-security and they review and sponsor it
<alus> slytherin: I see information about the stable release update process.. I can't find any information about nginx here http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<alus> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/sru/todo.html is just blank
<alus> nothing in launchpad says "nginx"
<slytherin> alus: It was just released yesterday, wasn't it?
<geser> alus: the pending sru page is for packages in -proposed which need to be tested before they go to -updates
<alus> slytherin: yes.. and I could install it from source in less time than it has taken me to find out when it will be updated in apt
<alus> slytherin: not to mention how long it would take someone to exploit it
<alus> geser: so, is nginx just not in the queue, or should I look somewhere else?
<geser> alus: someone needs to extract the needed changes from the new release and prepare a patch for it (-security only accept patches)
<slytherin> Anyway, I am not from security team. So I can not comment on policies for security updates.
<alus> geser: ah, well that would explain why it's several versions behind. what a pain
<geser> alus: as nginx is in universe, someone from the community needs to prepare a security update for the package in jaunty
<hyperair> slytherin: did you shift /usr/share/ant/lib/ant-proguard.jar?
<alus> the developer prepared a new tarball. isn't there a nginx source tarball to .deb script?
<hyperair> slytherin: what should i be using instead, then?
<alus> how did it get in apt in the first place? did someone do it by hand and then throw away the process they used to do that?
<geser> alus: the "source package" contains infomation how to build it from the tarball, but it might need some changes for the new upstream version
<geser> alus: but no new tarballs are accepted for -security, one needs to extract the patch for the security issue and apply it on the version that's currently in the archive
<alus> that seems far more error prone, and much slower
<hyperair> alus: it's about auditing the changes
<alus> by applying the same process that was applied to the original diff, and diffing the results, you could produce this patch
<alus> hyperair: the package maintainers did not write the software, and the original developer had a bug. I don't expect anybody will find anything useful
<geser> alus: and the risk for regressions is much smaller if you only fix the security problem
<alus> the risk of introducing new problems seems higher
<alus> nobody involved is the original developer, and knows the codebase
<geser> alus: but the developer doesn't obviously know how to write secure software (else the problem wouldn't rise) so some review from security aware people is good
<alus> uh
<alus> the security aware people obviously don't know how to write a tiny, fast webserver either
<alus> and why didn't the security aware people catch the bug when they accepted the nginx version they had already?
<alus> they can verify that the patch fixes the bug, but that has already been verified
<geser> because nobody reviews every line of code before it lands in Ubuntu
<hyperair> alus: <release>-security exists ONLY for pushing security updates. packages accepted into the UNSTABLE version of ubuntu is not audited by the same security team
<alus> but maybe only if you use the tarball as it appears on the developer's website
<hyperair> that's why the patch has to be isolated, put onto the existing jaunty package, and tested again
<alus> hyperair: so, fixes to software that was never reviewed are delayed by "-security"
<geser> alus: how sure are you that the new tarball doesn't introduce any other bugs which aren't currently in the version in jaunty?
<alus> leaving vulnerable systems out there in the wild for longer?
<alus> geser: how are you sure that the new tarball isn't better?
<hyperair> alus: please remember that when an ubuntu version is released, the archive is frozen.
<hyperair> alus: hence every change done must be tested intensively to make sure there are no regressions
<geser> alus: I'm not sure, it probably even is
<alus> this process seems overly cautious to prevent possible breakage, while ensuring it prolongs actual breakage
<hyperair> alus: then file a bug, isolate the patch, and get it in
<hyperair> alus: it's not overly cautious, it's a necessary measure.
<alus> honestly, it's easier for me to ignore apt and install it from source
<alus> and that's far more work than I want to do
<wgrant> New versions *do* break things.
<wgrant> And that's a lot of users to break.
<wgrant> So a minimal, obvious, well-tested patch is essential.
<alus> it's not a new-feature release. it's a update to the "legacy-stable" version of nginx
<wgrant> Then the patch should be simple to isolate.
<alus> wgrant: that is overly demanding for a package management system. software packages develop however they like
<alus> and as I use I would like to install them
<alus> so the package management system is in the way
<geser> alus: don't forget that those rules apply to all packages and not only nginx, so they might more strict than necessary in this specific case
<alus> if a user does not upgrade, their publicly facing webserver is vulnerable. it's quite easy to find out if a website uses a vulnerable version
<wgrant> alus: Feel free to isolate the patch and get an update pushed out.
<wgrant> It shouldn't take long.
<alus> it's all new to me. it would take quite a while
<alus> I know how to install from a tarball. that takes no time at all
<hyperair> Andres Rodriguez <andreserl<at>ubuntu.com>
<hyperair> that's the last person who uploaded.
<hyperair> you could contact him
<hyperair> looking at the changelog, he seems to be handling all the syncs/merges of nginx in ubuntu from debian
<slytherin> hyperair: read README.Debian. :-)
<hyperair> slytherin: ah thanks
<slytherin> hyperair: Actually I removed the symlink as recommended by upstream documentation and because of past bad experiences to to presence of such symlinks.
<slytherin> hyperair: I will try to push this in Debian policy.
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> okay
<alus> hyperair: ok, I sent him an email
<alus> thanks guys.
<moldy> hi
<moldy> i want to create a new version of an ubuntu package including a new version of the upstream sources
<moldy> are there some tools that can save me from doing all the packaging work again, by including information from the previous version, just bumping the upstream version number?
<moldy> i'm not sure how to handle the "new upstream version" case at alll... if anyone could point me to some docs, that would be great
<porthose_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<moldy> porthose_: thank you, just found that
<moldy> porthose_: at the "dch -i" step, i should change the upsrteam and ubuntu version manually?
<moldy> porthose_: dch does not seem to detect it by itself
<porthose_> depends on what you want to do if you are packaging for debian then no if you are packaging it for ubuntu the yes
<porthose_> the/then
<moldy> packaging for ubuntu
<moldy> well, dch does not seem to realize there is a new upstream version at all, that's why i am asking
<moldy> it still says "1.0dev1" instead of "1.0dev2"
<porthose_> then I would say your changelog entry is incorrect
<moldy> hm, in what regard?
<moldy> put differently: how does dch detect the fact that there is a new upstream version?
<moldy> as far as i understand, it only seems to try to do this when using the -d option
<pochu> dch -v '1.2.3-1'
 * porthose_ goes and finds some coffee *yawn*
<moldy> pochu: ah, so i should so something like "dch -v 1.0dev2-0ubuntu1"?
<pochu> I think so
<moldy> pochu: ok, thanks
<nicolasvw> How can one package an application for which upstream only provides svn and no release tarballs?
<slytherin> nicolasvw: create your own tarball.
<qnix> Hi, Feature Freeze disallows any package version upgrade, right?
<oreon> sera
<sistpoty|work> qnix: it means that new features need to get approved first
<sistpoty|work> qnix: (and hence need to be justified)
<qnix> sistpoty|work: so I can still ask to sync a package with debian unstable ?
<sistpoty|work> qnix: yes, but if it introduced new features, than you should get a FFe first ;)
<qnix> kk :P
<nicolasvw> slytherin: thank, I'll do it that way.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<sebner> huhi bddebian sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<qnix> why dh_install reports me: dh_install: usr/include/gdal/gdal_proxy.h exists in debian/tmp but is not installed to anywhere
<qnix> but if I do a dpkg-deb -c myfile.deb, the file is present
<bddebian> AnAnt: Sorry I missed you the other day, do you still want/need me to look at something?
<AnAnt> Hello, for some reason mdbtools in karmic doesn't work, yet the one from Debian (please look at LP 430057) worked for me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430057 in mdbtools "Sync mdbtools 0.5.99.0.6pre1.0.20051109-5 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430057
<AnAnt> bddebian: yeah
<AnAnt> bddebian: gplcver
<jbernard_> nixternal: is the next membership meeting on the 24th? if so I'll be happy to update the wiki, it still says the 9th at the moment
<bddebian> AnAnt: Is it still on mentors?
<AnAnt> bddebian: yup
<AnAnt> it's an NMU
<AnAnt> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gplcver/gplcver_2.12a-1.1.dsc
<bddebian> AnAnt: You haven't posted your patch or an NMU to BTS.  Have you tried to contact the maintainer?
<AnAnt> bddebian: I did  try to contact him for another reason, and got no reply
<AnAnt> bddebian: on Aug, 10th
<AnAnt> bddebian: yet the maintainer seems to be active till at least july of this year according to his QA page
<jtimberman> I need two MOTU to ACK FFE for new upstream version of Chef (0.7.10) which fixes some important bugs from 0.7.8: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chef/+bug/424576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424576 in chef "Chef new upstream version 0.7.10" [Undecided,New]
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you need to two members of the motu-release team to give an ACK for a FFe.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#Exceptions%20for%20Universe/Multiverse
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I've subscribed motu-release to the bug
<jtimberman> mathiaz: cool. also need libmixlib-config-ruby updated to upstream release 1.0.12, bug link is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmixlib-config-ruby/+bug/420674
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420674 in libmixlib-config-ruby "Update libmixlib-config-ruby to new upstream version 1.0.12" [Undecided,New]
<jtimberman> should i add motu-release to that one too?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: nope - as it's a bug fix only
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you should seek sponsorship though - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<jtimberman> mathiaz: alrighty.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: we're in FeatureFreeze - so new features need to be acked
<mathiaz> jtimberman: if it a bug fix only upstream release then it can go in
<jtimberman> Right.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: but you'll always need sponsorship since you don't have upload rights.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: gotcha.
<jtimberman> subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors to it.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: are you planning to push the update to debian as weel?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: *well*
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it may be easier to get it uploaded to debian and then ask for a sync in ubuntu
<jtimberman> mathiaz: it should go in debian too, yes, as the 0.7.10 is what i'm currently trying to get into debian now.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I'm refering to libmixlib-config-ruby
<jtimberman> mathiaz: right, mixlib-config 1.0.12 is required for chef 0.7.10:)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: right - since mixlib-config is already in debian, it may be easier to get the new version in debian
<jtimberman> mathiaz: DEHS shows 1.0.12: http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/report.php?package=libmixlib-config-ruby
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and then ask for a sync
<mathiaz> jtimberman: in ubuntu
<jtimberman> mathiaz: okay, pinging a DD :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: otherwise you'll have to redo the mixlib-config debdiff to follow the ubuntu convention
<jtimberman> oh, is my debdiff debianized?
 * jtimberman should make a separate sbuild server for debian 
<jtimberman> or something.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: well first - it's been generated the wrong way
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and then the version number is a debian number - it ubuntu it would be 1.0.12-0ubuntu1
<jtimberman> gotcha.
<jtimberman> well i'll see if thom will upload to debian again :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and the maintainer field would have to be updated - per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<mathiaz> jtimberman: if you can get it in debian it would be much better.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: indeed. working on that.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: do i turn the launchpad bug into a sync request, or close it and open a new bug?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: leave it open for now.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: *once* the new upstream version is in debian, I'd suggest to turn the bug in a sync request
<mathiaz> jtimberman: following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and asking sponsorship again since you don't have upload rights
<jtimberman> mathiaz: alrighty.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: libmixlib-config-ruby 1.0.12 uploaded, accepted: http://packages.qa.debian.org/libm/libmixlib-config-ruby/news/20090915T161725Z.html
<Riddell> YokoZar: ping
<Riddell> YokoZar: springlobby has a debian/copyright which mentions  src/boost but there's no such directory
<Riddell> I could accept and file a bug but I'd prefer to reject and have it uploaded correctly
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys what to do in a case where solving a FTBFS, after debuild -S and doing a debdiff between the debian and the ubuntu revision, changes in config.guess and config.sub are showed? these changes are also showed in the diff.gz
 * sebner has a deja-vÃ¹ :)
<christoph_debian> RoAkSoAx: maybe working with filterdiff helps?
<RoAkSoAx> rigth, the thing is that AFAIK, changes in config.guess and config.sub should not be showed, but still, they are
<randomaction> iirc the solution was to rm -f them in debian/rules clean target
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: delete that stuff from the debdiff
<RoAkSoAx> sebner, I did. Then I did a apt-get source package, applied that debdiff to the sourcepackage, debuild -S and changes were showed again...
<christoph_debian> I'd ask the debian maintainer to fix it on the way as you're opening a bug anyway
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: not wondering because that stuff gets generated evidently anytime. Show me the rules file
<RoAkSoAx> sebner, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/271548/
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: remove that stuff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/271567/
<RoAkSoAx> sebner, I did, and the same :)
<sebner> what a evil package :P
<RoAkSoAx> sebner, haha yeah I've already found 2 with the same issue :) :S
<RoAkSoAx> I'll keep investigating though :)
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: sorry I couldn't help :\
<RoAkSoAx> sebner, no prob :)
<christoph_debian> RoAkSoAx: did you remove the copying on the same tree you already did the debuild -S ?
<RoAkSoAx> christoph_debian, yep, I keep downloading the source again and again and get the same result. I'm gonna try it again step by step to see what can I be doing wrong :)
<christoph_debian> RoAkSoAx: if you called debuild -S once before removing the parts from rules it can't work if you get the same still with removing it from rules first I'll get that source package and see why it does impossible things ;)
<RoAkSoAx> christoph_debian, maybe that's it, that's why i'm doing it changing my steps :) thanks for the advice
<RoAkSoAx> weird, now I don't get the config.{sub,guess} changes but I do get changes in  .pc/.version :s
<RoAkSoAx> finally, no undesired changed
<tag> Just how unstable is karmic right now? :-)
<directhex> very
<tag> Crappy
<Mabo> hi
<hjmf> please take a look to bug #430272
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430272 in ubuntu "karmic boot hung after /scripts/init-bottom" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430272
<directhex> hjmf, "Topic for #ubuntu-devel is: Neither karmic nor the buildds are in a happy place right now, things are being sorted"
<mruiz> Hi... Why some packages are not available at merges.ubuntu.com ?
<sebner> mruiz: define "some packages", most packages are syncs so don't need to be merged
<mruiz> sebner, for instance gaphor . It needs a merge
<sebner> mruiz: right, interesting
<sebner> mruiz: you should more worry if it'd need a FFe though
<ScottK> jtimberman: Chef FFe is approved.
<jtimberman> ScottK: Thanks :)
<jpds> mruiz: Maybe the autosyncs have been disabled and thus it's stopped syncing?
<jtimberman> ScottK: libmixlib-config-ruby update uploaded to debian earlier today, that should be bumped in ubuntu karmic too
<jpds> And then not checking for merges?
<ScottK> jpds: It's supposed to keep checking.
<ScottK> jtimberman: You'll need to file a sync request and seek sponsorship through the normal process for that.
<jpds> ScottK: Dunno myself. I thought it stopped after DIF.
<ScottK> jpds: No.  It being stopped was one reason that DaD existed.  Part of the agreement for killing DaD was it would keep running.
<Ng> if I'm doing python distutils and cdbs, how would I add something to the postinst without losing the automatically generated one?
<Ng> I don't appear to be able to instruct any quick magic to register my gconf schema for me, so I need to do that in the postinst afaict
<Ng> (and presumably deregister it in the prerm)
<Riddell> Ng: adding <packagename>.postinst into debian/rules should do it, cdbs/debhelper will merge in its own stuff at the end
<mathiaz> Ng: have you looked at dh_gconf?
<Ng> mathiaz: can I just drop that into my debian/rules after the cdbs includes?
<mathiaz> Ng: yes - at binary-install/package-name::
<mathiaz> Ng: something like that:
<Laney> Daviey: Yo, just looking at your change. Where does the db-pending-config file come from?
<mathiaz> Ng: http://paste.ubuntu.com/271731/
<mathiaz> Ng: look into /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/gnome.mk
<mathiaz> Ng: to see how the gnome cdbs class uses dh_gconf
<Ng> mathiaz: thanks
<Ng> you guys are always incredibly helpful :)
<jtimberman> libmixlib-config-ruby ready to sync from debian sid/main
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-16
<YokoZar> Riddell: I'll fix it today
<kees> nhandler: oh, do you have control over the fridge calendar?  for some reason the monday security team meeting doesn't show up (though it's visible in the iCal feed)
<nhandler> kees: Yeah, I'm not seeing that meeting. If you give me the information, I would be glad to try and add it for you
<nhandler> kees: Oh wait, you mean the Security Team Catch-Up ?
<kees> nhandler: yeah
<nhandler> kees: That is showing up on the calendar for me. 5pm on the 21st on http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<kees> I followed the directions on the fridge wiki page, and it showed up in the iCal just fine, but not here: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
 * kees scratches his head
<nhandler> kees: Strange, I am seeing it there. Have you tried clearing your cache?
<kees> shift-reload, yes, but let's try a full clear, one sec
<kees> still not there.  hrmpf
<kees> nhandler: is it possible you see it because you have rights to the calendar?
<nhandler> kees: AFAIK, I don't have any more rights than you do
<nhandler> kees: An edubuntu user had a similar issue a week or so ago. You might have more luck looking through the Google support information
<kees> got another person here to load that URL, they don't see it.
<ScottK> kees: I'm just syncing rails from Debian so we get the fix for DSA 1887-1 in Karmic.
<kees> one thing I noticed about the iCal is that it's not "accepted" by the fridge yet.  (no "response")
<kees> ScottK: perfect, thanks
<kees> ScottK: after Alpha6, I was going to try to work my way down the list in the karmic column: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/universe.html
<nhandler> kees: The fridge will always be listed under "Awaiting response"
<kees> nhandler: ok.  weird.  dunno why you see it.  :)
<ScottK> kees: Cool.  Well assuming the test build works you can knock one off your list.
<ScottK> kees: While waiting for Alpha 6 is a good time for Universe stuff since the buildd's are typically not very busy ...
<kees> ScottK: I'm always nervous I'll touch something that mythbuntu or something uses
<ScottK> Right.  Reasonable fear.
<ScottK> It'd by nice if LP had a view for that.
<kees> yeah.  I've tried to extract the details before, but it's never been very successful.  I only think to bug slangasek or cjwatson about it during a freeze, which is not a good time to distract them.  ;)
<ScottK> At a glance, it looks like it could be scripted with grep-dctrl.
<slangasek> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/mythbuntu.karmic/all
<slangasek> kees: ^^
<slangasek> (no merged view available, I'm afraid, so you'd have to check mythbuntu && xubuntu)
<ScottK> Is UNR all in Main now?
<kees> slangasek: ah-ha, yes.  so *.karmic/all should catch all src packages
<slangasek> ScottK: um... I think so
* mruiz changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Karmic Feature Freeze is in effect now! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test
* mruiz changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Karmic Feature Freeze is in effect now! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<happyaron> kees: ping
<dholbach> good morning
<DktrKranz> ScottK: scipy sync request done.
<AnAnt> why doesn't Ubuntu modify reportbug instead of making a new tool ubuntu-bug/apport ?
<AnAnt> if a developer wants to add bug reporting scripts for a package that he is preparing, he will have to write both scripts for apport & for reportbug
<slytherin> AnAnt: Not for both. reportbug is not used in Ubuntu at all.
<AnAnt> slytherin: well, I meant that if I am preparing the same package for Debian too
<slytherin> AnAnt: I don't know how either of them works. So can't really comment.
<james_w> I'm going to be reviewing things for the next hour, so if anyone has any patches they want interactive review on please give me a shout
<AnAnt> james_w: devscripts !
<james_w> AnAnt: you need to redo the merge against the latest version in Ubuntu
<james_w> I uploaded your previous work
<james_w> and then uploaded a fix
<AnAnt> james_w: huh ? didn't I do so ?
<AnAnt> oh, you uploaded .53 already
<AnAnt> ok
<james_w> I forgot to check it mentioned to the bug in the changelog
<AnAnt> james_w: why is XS- prefixed to Vcs-* fields ?
<james_w> it's not
<james_w> any more at least
<AnAnt> ok
<christoph_debian> XS-* are not removed by dpkg* if the fields are unknown so every field that is not implemented yet must have it
<christoph_debian> ;)
<AnAnt> james_w: done
<ScottK> AnAnt: Internally reportbug and ubuntu-bug are very different programs that work very differently.
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> well, I think it would be nice to patch dh_bugfiles to install apport scripts in the proper place
<cortexhugo> Hi. I am new to the world of packaging. I am working through the packaging guide and the recipes (Brasero)  on the ubuntu wiki. When i give the command to debuild -S -sa I get a error: debuild: fatal error at line 1329: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S -sa failed. Could someone please advice me here.
<danbhfive> cortexhugo: I thought it was supposed to fail
<sebner> cortexhugo: can you post the full error message somewhere?
<sebner> danbhfive: why?
<danbhfive> sebner: well, I'm trying to learn myself, but basically, the package is outdated
<danbhfive> but I don't really know
<sebner> danbhfive: sure but no reason to fail
<danbhfive> sebner: according to the guide, you are incorrect
<danbhfive> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<sebner> danbhfive: ??
<slytherin> cortexhugo: It is probably because the email address in latest changelog entry (debian/changelog) is not yours.
<sistpoty|work> -us -uc takes care of that
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: I wasn't sure he used those options.
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: By the way, do I have to chase motu-release team members for jav-gnome FFe or will it get reviewed eventually?
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: The reason I ask is because I am blocked in Debian for next upload. I want to make sure all the build problems are solved in one go.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Would you please ack the clutter FFe, so that can get started.
<ScottK> slytherin: What bug?
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: it's on the worklist. of course pinging can speed the process up somewhat :P
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: *looking*
<slytherin> ScottK: bug #427463
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427463 in java-gnome "FFe: Sync java-gnome 4.0.13-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427463
<sebner> sistpoty|work: bah, still no nexuiz :\
<ScottK> slytherin: Approved.
<slytherin> ScottK: Thanks.
<slytherin> ScottK: should I subscribe archive team?
<ScottK> Yes.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: approved
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> It seems like we're doing pretty well this cycle to get everything in a consistent state.
<sistpoty|work> ftbfs worries me a bit though
<slytherin> ScottK: done
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I agree.  It worries me too.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Want to do another FTBFS session?
<ScottK> This time actually announce it ....
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: hm... sounds like a good idea, though I won't find time until this Friday
<ScottK> Friday is probably good.
<ScottK> You should announce it today and do it Friday
<sistpoty|work> ok, will do
<RainCT> OT: Before I buy it, anyone has an EeePC 1005HA?
<adolfon5> hello
<adolfon5> good morning
<adolfon5> some help plz
<adolfon5> anyone?
<adolfon5> i have a problem with Ubuntu edition
<adolfon5> Ubuntu Desktop 9.04
<adolfon5> anyone here know something about linux softwares?
<pochu> ask in #ubuntu
<adolfon5> how can i do that?
<pochu> go to the #ubuntu channel, and ask there
<adolfon5> thanks
<kees> happyaron: hello!  (i'm not the maintainer of kde-gettext, but perhaps I can help anyway?)
<happyaron> kees: how can we have that da.po update upstream?
<kees> happyaron: I would recommend opening an upstream bug report?
<happyaron> kees: that would be fine, but I haven't found a upstream link, :(
<ScottK> happyaron: dpm is the Ubuntu translations coordinator.  He may have an idea about that.
<happyaron> scottK, hi, I am just on that team and find a problem for this file in the import queue, :)
<kees> happyaron: debian/copyright shows a KDE ftp url, so probably via the KDE bug tracker.
<kees> happyaron: I would start with an Ubuntu bug first, so we can get it fixed in Ubuntu's package, then try to get it upstreamed.
<ScottK> happyaron: I'd ask in #kubuntu-devel then as some people there know a bit about this stuff.
<happyaron> kees: I have uploaded a fixed one to the queue, that's fine
<happyaron> kees: I'll go to find upstream tracker
<kees> okay, cool
<happyaron> ScottK thanks
<dpm> happyaron: I'd also go for ScottK's suggestion: asking at #kubuntu-devel
<happyaron> dpm: okay, will go now
<dpm> happyaron: and thanks for your rocking work in helping with translations! :-)
<happyaron> dpm: my pleasure
<happyaron> kees: the template is not in KDE l10n repository, I think
<ScottK> james_w: I'm working with someone who's using Debian Testing and the version of bzr-builddeb he has appears seriously ancient.  Would you have a recommendation what version would be best to use with bzr 1.17?
<kees> happyaron: ah-ha, well, then, just an Ubuntu bug then.
<james_w> ScottK: anything later should be fine
<james_w> I should get an upload to Debian
<ScottK> james_w: Thanks.
<happyaron> kees: guys in kubuntu-devel said the package is not used anymore, and only for kde3
<happyaron> kees: so I think only a ubuntu bug filed is acceptable perhaps
<kees> happyaron: okay
<superm1> kees, what were you trying to break in mythbuntu and xubuntu yesterday?
<kees> superm1: oh, nothing at all.  I was just saying that when freezes happen, I don't upload even to universe for fear of hitting a package in one of the isos
<superm1> kees, oh okay :P
<adolfon> hello again
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: would you be available this Fri at 19.00 UTC for another FTBFS session?
<sebner> sistpoty|work: yeah, another session. /me is keen to follow :D
<sistpoty|work> heh
<ScottK> Note to sponsors, there are, IIRC, FTBFS fixes waiting for sponsorship.  Quick turnaround on these will motivate people to do more.
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: I'm off work this Friday, family in town
<sistpoty|work> ah, ok, thanks slangasek
<quadrispro> hi guys
<sistpoty|work> hi quadrispro
<quadrispro> hi sistpoty|work
<quadrispro> stgraber: I've released this https://launchpad.net/nautilus-pastebin, that extension and pastebinit does almost the same, I thought you might be interested in merging some code
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys , I'm preparing a security update for nginx, and I have a question regarding the versioning. If the version is 0.6.34-2ubuntu1~hardy1, should the security update be: 0.6.34-2ubuntu1~hardy1.1 or 0.6.34-2ubuntu1.1~hardy1?
<quadrispro> I think it should be ~hardy1.1
<jdstrand> RoAkSoAx: please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Packaging
<RoAkSoAx> k thanks quadrispro :)
<RoAkSoAx> jdstrand, yes I'm there but it does not say what to do with versioning when we have ~hardy, ~intrepid, etc
<jdstrand> RoAkSoAx: ok. please use ~hardy1.1
<RoAkSoAx> jdstrand, thanks ;)
<jdstrand> RoAkSoAx: thank you! just make sure you mark the status as 'In Progress' so the debdiffs show up in our reporting
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<RoAkSoAx> jdstrand,  bug #430064 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430064 in nginx "Security fix in recent release 0.6.39/DSA-1884-1" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430064
<jdstrand> kees: fyi ^
<kees> woo, yes, I'll snag that
<jdstrand> (he's on community this week)
<kees> RoAkSoAx: that version is for backports...
<kees> RoAkSoAx: current stable releases show:
<kees> nginx | 0.5.33-1        | hardy/universe
<kees> nginx | 0.6.32-3ubuntu1 | intrepid/universe
<kees> nginx | 0.6.35-0ubuntu1 | jaunty/universe
<kees> but, for doing a backport patch, yes, append .1
<RoAkSoAx> kees, so I should apply the security fix for both the stable release and the backport?
<kees> RoAkSoAx: that would be ideal, yes :)
<imexil> Hi,  I'm wondering about the package name "liblua5.1-0-dev" wich is simply the dev package of lua version 5.1 but what does the -0 bit tell me
<RoAkSoAx> kees, ok, will do then :)
<kees> RoAkSoAx: thanks!  let me know if I can help.
<RoAkSoAx> kees, will do :) thanks!
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Ideally for backports, we'd just do an updated backport of the fixed version rather than prepare a separate upload for backports.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok, so backport it is. :)
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Feel free to ping me when you are ready to have the backport approved.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok will do thanks! In this case should I update the package to the new upstream version which has the security fix (i.e. from  0.6.34-2ubuntu1~intrepid1 to 0.6.39-0ubunut1 ?) or should I just apply the security fix?
<ScottK> I'd rather update to the new upstream and rebackport, but it'll need a bit of testing first.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok, I'll try to find the best solution for this then.
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: The testing standard for backports is, "builds, installs, runs".  It's not very hard to achieve.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, yep, I'll update the packages and test them
<ximion> geser: Hi! Are you there?
<geser> ximion: yes
<ximion> geser: Great! Do you remember my packaging of libqt4intf? ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libqtintf4 )
<geser> yes
<ximion> The problem with this library was that is was not versioned, so I contacted upstream and asked if they could fix it. After a discussion how to name the new lib they released a new version which is now versioned and fixed some other small issues to make the packaging easier.
<ximion> So, could you please take a short look on the modifications? (There are no more lintian errors now) If something else is needed, I submit it to upstream. (If you dont's have time, no problem.)
<geser> not right now, perhaps later
<ximion> geser: okay. :-)
<desrt> hello.  does anyone know how to pass additional ./configure arguments when using debhelper with the 'tiny' rules file?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, Should I update only the version in karmic (from 0.6.35-0ubuntu1 to 0.6.39-0ubuntu1~jaunty) and then change the changelog entries for hardy and intrepid, or should I upgrade the versions in intrepid and hardy backports, which differ from jaunty (i.e. from 0.6.34-2ubuntu1~intrepid1 to 0.6.39), so that the we can keep the changelog entry from the previous backports?
<ScottK> Don't worry about keeping the previous backports changelogs
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks :)
<loic-m> Could anyone with backports rights have a look at Bug #333651 ? It's been marked confirmed and reported to work for a while, but still not gone through.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 333651 in jaunty-backports "Please backport s3cmd 0.9.9 to Jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/333651
<james_w> desrt: override_dh_auto_configure:\n\t./configure --what-not
<desrt> fascinating.
<james_w> there's no variables for "append this option" or anything
<desrt> that's a shame
<desrt> i guess i can look at the config.log to find out what the 'default' list is
<desrt> ouch.  that's a big list.
<james_w> oh, no, easier way
<desrt> some build-in variable for the standard options?
<ScottK> loic-m: Done.
<james_w> override_dh_auto_configure:\n\tdh_auto_configure -- --what-not
<james_w> see dh_auto_configure(1)
<desrt> oh yes.  that's quite a lot better, i agree :)
<loic-m> thanks a lot ScottK
<desrt> james_w: thanks for the tip
<james_w> np
<desrt> ugh.  some evil unescaping is going down here.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, sorry to bother you again but I have one more doubt. nginx in Karmic is 0.7.61-1ubuntu1, and nginx in Jaunty is 0.6.35-0ubuntu1. According to the documentation we can only backport packages that are already on the repositories. So will this mean that I *cant* update package in nginx, and then backport it to hardy and intrepid right?
<RoAkSoAx> I mean *cant* update package in Jaunty to 0.6.39-0ubuntu1, and then backport it to hardy and intrepid?
<ScottK> Sure you can.
<ScottK> The docs aren't very clear on that and you need to be clear in the backport bug what you want.
<ScottK> The docs really mean to say it has to be a backport for the Ubuntu archive, not from some external place.
<RoAkSoAx> Oh ok, they got me confused on it. Anyways, I already have the packages so I guess I;ll setup my test environments :)
<desrt> does anyone know how to do separate libfoo/libfoo-dbg packages with dh rules.tiny?
 * desrt tries the obvious thing
<desrt> and it works.
<pochu> desrt: what is it?
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys, I was wondering, do we still need to care about providing fixes for sparc (since Ubuntu no longer provides releases for it)?
<soren> RoAkSoAx: "need" is such a strong word :)
<RoAkSoAx> soren, haha well for exmaple, debian provides a fix for building a package on sparc, thus, in Ubuntu we don't longer provide a release for sparc, so that fix would not help us, right?
<soren> We haven't dropped sparc.
<RoAkSoAx> I'm asking this because I'f there's no need for that fix, I can just apply a patch in the Ubuntu package instead of merging it from debian
<soren> It's just not a supported architecture anymore. Like powerpc, for instance.
<desrt> pochu: http://pastebin.ca/1568757
<desrt> pochu: override_dh_strip:
<RoAkSoAx> soren, right, since it's not supported anymore, should I still need to care on fixing bugs related to that architecture?
<soren> 20:00:22 < soren> RoAkSoAx: "need" is such a strong word :)
<RoAkSoAx> soren, so we don't :), we could but we don't have to :)
<zul_> its like a hobby arch
<RoAkSoAx> zul_, ok :)
<desrt> PPA builders have a bit of a backlog...
<james_w> most of it is scored very low though
<james_w> it's a test rebuild of the archive
<james_w> but just about anything else jumps ahead of that in the queue
 * desrt is waiting 2 hours
<james_w> though there may be a bit of a backlog independent of that
<james_w> and the estimated wait times are a little untrustworthy :-)
 * desrt does a pbuilder
<desrt> Release version:  	karmic-alpha-6
<desrt> Release code name: 	
<desrt> Expected: 	in 3 hours
<desrt> oh.  i see.
<zooko> Could I interest anyone in uploading Tahoe-LAFS into Karmic?
<zooko> It is all reviewed and approved and all of its dependencies are in.
<zooko> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<zooko> And Tahoe-LAFS was featured in Ubuntu Podcast, so it would be nice if people could actually test it out in Karmic. :-)
<zooko> Here is the Feature Freeze exception showing why Tahoe-LAFS is sufficiently cool that it belongs in Karmic: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/421802
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 421802 in ubuntu "Feature Freeze Exception: Tahoe-LAFS" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<debfx_> siretart: could you please update the Debian keepassx package to 0.4.1, so it can be synced to karmic?
<ahe> i just uploaded a package to my ppa that builds fine with debuild and pbuilder but the build server fails with this error message:
<ahe> dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<ahe> dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-genchanges gave error exit status 2
<ahe> any ideas what the problem could be?
<soren> Do you have a link to the build log?
<ahe> soren: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31923435/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.libnotify-ruby_0.3.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mruiz> how should I modify debian/rules to adopt quilt as patch system ?
<zooko> ScottK: I've already asked iulian, rainct, and kirkland about this, but none of them have been available to clue me in.
<zooko> ScottK: is there anything I can do to push Tahoe-LAFS into Karmic sooner?
<kirkland> zooko: i'm totally heads down on virt/cloud stuff, no time for anything else
<zooko> As far as I know everything is lined up and ready to go -- we just need somebody to upload it.
<kirkland> zooko: sorry, i know your fs is cloud-related too
<zooko> kirkland: I appreciate that.  I'm glad Karmic is going to have good virt/cloud stuff.  :-)
<kirkland> zooko: i mean on particular, assigned tasks;  i'm having trouble fitting anything else in
<zooko> I don't want to be a pest, but if there's anything I can do to get Tahoe-LAFS into Karmic sooner, then I can ask folks to test it and make sure it is solid when Karmic goes gold.
<zooko> kirkland: yes, I understood.  I'll leave you alone until further notice.  :-)
<kirkland> zooko: i'm really, really sorry
<kirkland> zooko: i like what i've seen so far, though, fwiw
<zooko> Thanks for the encouragement!  Good luck with your cloud work!
<ScottK> zooko: A lot of people are tied up with getting ready for Alpha 6.  Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors and be patient.
<ScottK> Did the python package (I don't recall the name) build this time?
<zooko> ScottK: will do.  Tahoe-LAFS depends on three Python packages that are all three in Karmic now.
<ScottK> The crytoppp one (or something like that) is the one I was thinking of
<zooko> It is in Karmic now.
<zooko> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pycryptopp&searchon=names&suite=karmic&section=all
<ahe> soren: did you find something?
<ahe> soren: strange thing is the build for i386 succeeded
<ahe> soren: https://launchpad.net/~aheck/+archive/ppa
<ahe> i tested it on amd64 and it fails on all but i386
<zooko> Okay time to take my 5 year old boy to see "Up". :-)  If anybody has questions about Tahoe-LAFS, see channel #tahoe on freenode.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-17
<bdrung_> porthose: what are the tasks of a mentor?
<porthose> bdrung, help new contributors to become familiar with ubuntu processes, answer questions, introduce and help new contributors to get involved with the community etc https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor :)
<RoAkSoAx> Can a security update be combined with bugfixes in the same upload?
<bdrung_> RoAkSoAx: for which release?
<RoAkSoAx> bdrung_, for karmic
<bdrung_> RoAkSoAx: then yes
<RoAkSoAx> bdrung_, if version is: 0.7.61-1ubuntu1, will it end up beign 0.7.61-1ubuntu1.1 or 0.7.61-1ubuntu2.1
<bdrung_> 0.7.61-1ubuntu2
<RoAkSoAx> bdrung_, If it's only a security fix it will end up being 0.7.61-1ubuntu1.1
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Use regular revision numbers for Karmic even if it's a security fix
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, oh ok! I was following the doc from the security team
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: RE your earlier question, we do care about Sparc.  The thing about Sparc is it's up to the community to support it.
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Yes, thats for post-release stuff.  For development release, you just do it normally.
<bdrung_> ScottK: you are faster :)
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, oh ok, and this is actually a bug in packaging that I've just found few minutes ago while testing the package (and it seems this comes from debian)
<ScottK> They aren't perfect either.
<crimsun> jdstrand: would appreciate feedback on the fix for your sound issue
<desrt> how do i control if debuild -S includes the orig.tar.gz in the .changes or not?
<Hobbsee> -sa or -sd
<ScottK> -sa includes it
<desrt> nice.  thanks.
<desrt> oh pain.
<desrt> launchpad rejected my upload due to missing source tarball but now it refuses to take the new upload because i already did the old one
<ScottK> rm the .upload file
<desrt> ahah
<desrt> that's not launchpad :p
<desrt> thanks :)
<ScottK> np
<desrt> i love my magnet!
 * LucidFox chuckles at the new ubuntu-motu mail
<Hobbsee> that's a fail.
<dholbach> #canonical-2009-09-17-07h16
<dholbach> mruiz: so regarding the patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff warning
<dholbach> mruiz: in some cases it might just be enough to run      patch -p1 -R < debian/patches/bla-something.patch
<mruiz> dholbach, then some files were modified during the build
<dholbach> mruiz: because the source is already patched AND the patch is going to get applied during the build
<dholbach> the regular patch system (cdbs-simple-patchsys, dpatch, quilt, dbs) should take care of that
<dholbach> mruiz: that should normally help out
<mruiz> dholbach, but my patch only modified the Makefile and another files seem to be changed
<dholbach> mruiz: probably automake is called during the build?
<mruiz> my debian/rules file is the following: http://paste.debian.net/46738/
<mruiz> and I'm using quilt
<dholbach> can you run     zcat <...>.diff.gz | diffstat
<dholbach> and see which files are modified?
<mruiz> mruiz@karmic:~/bzr/stone$ zcat stone_2.3.e-1ubuntu1.diff.gz |diffstat
<mruiz>  debian/README.source                           |    5
<mruiz>  debian/changelog                               |   97 +++++++++++++
<mruiz>  debian/compat                                  |    1
<mruiz>  debian/control                                 |   20 ++
<mruiz>  debian/copyright                               |   50 +++++++
<mruiz>  debian/dirs                                    |    1
<mruiz>  debian/docs                                    |    2
<mruiz>  debian/patches/01_incomplete_type_pointer.diff |   13 +
<mruiz>  debian/patches/series                          |    1
<mruiz>  debian/postinst                                |   28 +++
<mruiz>  debian/postrm                                  |   18 ++
<mruiz>  debian/rules                                   |   72 ++++++++++
<mruiz>  stone.1                                        |  178 +++++++++++++++++++++++++
<mruiz>  stone.1.ja                                     |  178 +++++++++++++++++++++++++
<mruiz>  14 files changed, 664 insertions(+)
<dholbach> there you go
<dholbach> it's the *.1.* files
<dholbach> they seem to get added during the build
<dholbach> or you added them
<mruiz> I only modified debian/{changelog, README.source, control, rules, patches*}
<dholbach> that's weird then
<dholbach> stone.1* is what the lintian warning complains about
<dholbach> maybe they were added to the .diff.gz by the debian maintainer already
<zooko> ScottK-desktop: by the way, I was just reminded of another reason why Tahoe-LAFS is a cool Cloud thing.  It can serve as a backend for bzr.
<dholbach> in that case, and if you're just fixing something small in Ubuntu, you probably don't need to fix this too
<mruiz> mruiz@karmic:~/bzr/stone$ zcat stone_2.3.e-1.diff.gz |diffstat
<mruiz>  debian/changelog |   83 +++++++++++++++++++++++++
<mruiz>  debian/compat    |    1
<mruiz>  debian/control   |   19 +++++
<mruiz>  debian/copyright |   50 +++++++++++++++
<mruiz>  debian/dirs      |    1
<mruiz>  debian/docs      |    2
<zooko> Someone just mentioned on #tahoe how they are happy storing their bzr repo in a Tahoe-LAFS grid.  :-)
<mruiz>  debian/postinst  |   28 ++++++++
<mruiz>  debian/postrm    |   18 +++++
<mruiz>  debian/rules     |   70 +++++++++++++++++++++
<mruiz>  stone.1          |  178 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<mruiz>  stone.1.ja       |  178 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<mruiz>  11 files changed, 628 insertions(+)
<zooko> DVCS in the Cloud.  :-)
<dholbach> mruiz: better not scroll the channel too much :)
<zooko> Okay, I'm going too bed.
<dholbach> zooko: good night
<zooko> Oops, I'm obviously tooo tired to count the o's in my words.
<zooko> :-)
<zooko> Goodnight dholbach.
<mruiz> dholbach, OK.
<mruiz> dholbach, it seems that debian packaging includes the same changes by default :-)
<dholbach> alright, then don't worry
<dholbach> (only if you want to fix it and send the fix to Debian too)
<mruiz> dholbach, sure!
<dholbach> super
<mruiz> bye all
<dholbach> hang on
<dholbach> regarding bug 430960
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430960 in hildon-desktop "FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430960
<dholbach> can you please follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines ?
<dholbach> if you don't have the time now or just want to go to bed that's fine :)
<kklimonda> any idea what is the right way of fixing bug 42293 or at least some documentation for language-pack builders?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 42293 in coreutils "coreutils.mo are dangling symlinks" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42293
<dholbach> kklimonda: hang on
<kklimonda> I want to get piuparts to work at last..
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Internationalisation
<dholbach> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0909/Translations
<dholbach> that's all I have
<dholbach> arnegoetje, dpm and pitti also are people you can talk to about it
<kklimonda> ok, thanks - I'll dig into it and speak to them
<mruiz> dholbach, I will use it for my future patches
<dholbach> mruiz: ok, I'll update it in the hildon-desktop case myself then
<mruiz> dholbach, thanks ... it too late here :-).
<dholbach> alrightie
<dholbach> sleep tight
<mruiz> :D
<mruiz> dholbach, bye!
<slytherin> geser: there?
<siretart> debfx: I see that you have already packaged 0.4.1 and are doing a great job on launchpad bugs in keepassx. would you like to co-maintain the package in debian?
<siretart> debfx: if yes, and we could agree on a packaging branch in a VCS like bzr or git, I'd be happy to sponsor upload to debian for you!
<siretart> debfx: about the new version, it seems the sf.net redirector for uscan is reporting 0.4.0 was up-to-date. not sure why, though...
<slytherin> Are the previous uploaders of jack-audio-connection-kit present here?
<siretart`> slytherin: I think I sponsored one of the last uploads to debian, if that helps
<slytherin> siretart`: I am about to upload a no-change rebuild in Ubuntu. Fixes NBS of libffado
<debfx> siretart: yeah sure, I would like to
<siretart`> slytherin: sounds like a no-brainer. why do you ask?
<siretart`> debfx: cool. would you like to continue my bzr branch on lp, or do you prefer git? or something else?
<slytherin> siretart`: In case someone is going to upload a revision for any other reason, no point in uploading n-change rebuild.
<siretart`> slytherin: oh, right. no I don't plan any update here
<debfx> siretart`: I'm more familiar with git, but I don't mind using the bzr branch
<siretart`> debfx: I use both bzr-buildpackage and git-buildpackage and have packages maintained by both. I really don't mind either, but keepassx is currently maintained in bzr
<debfx> siretart`: ok then I'll just continue the bzr branch
<geser> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> geser: regarding ooo-thumbnailer. Currently it produces thumbnails only for ODF files. Doesn't it work for MS Office formats?
<geser> slytherin: sorry don't know, I only fixed a FTBFS
<slytherin> Ok. I will check myself.
<debfx> siretart`: I'm not sure about uscan either but i'll probably move away from sourceforge anyway
<siretart`> debfx: ah ok. - sorry, I had a collegue in my office
<siretart`> debfx: okay, in the case that you intend to continue my branch, may I suggest that you publish your updated branch on lp in ~keepassx (the keepassx developer team) and add me to that team?
<siretart`> so we can work together on the branch
<debfx> siretart`: ok, I pushed the brnahc to ~keepassx and added you to the team
<debfx> s/brnahc/branch/
<siretart`> debfx: it seems you haven't updated the debian/* packaging yet. did you perhaps forget to push that revision?
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :D
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<alourie|work> hello
<alourie|work> dholbach: would it work here?
<alourie|work> :-)
<dholbach> yes
<alourie|work> If I'm trying to split a package in 2. I've set 2 .install files. But second package finishes empty, and the original still contains the files
<dholbach> is dh_install run some time during the build? did you specify both packages in debian/control?
<alourie|work> yes on both questions
<dholbach> are you sure the paths are correct in debian/*.install?
<alourie|work> yes. There is a step in rules, that processes a list of files and copies them into the required directory. But this directory finished in original package, not new.
<alourie|work> so I'm doing something wrong, I just can't catch it
<Laney> you should export DH_VERBOSE=1 in your rules file to see what's going on in more dtail
<slytherin> alourie|work: paste your rules file on pastebin
<debfx> siretart`: I will push the packaging files in a minute, if you don't mind I would like to switch to dh 7
<alourie|work> slytherin: http://pastebin.com/f2477aa40
<slytherin> alourie|work: "There is a step in rules, that processes a list of files and copies them into the required directory. " I don't see any such step in rules file.
<slytherin> alourie|work: And I would also like to see your .install files.
<AnAnt> dholbach: Hello
<dholbach> hiya AnAnt
<dholbach> AnAnt: I have that email still sitting in my inbox (from the sl-modem bug)
<dholbach> I didn't get around to answering
<AnAnt> dholbach: git-buildpackage was acked by 2 MOTUs
<AnAnt> dholbach: he reminds me of my previous boss
<dholbach> AnAnt: I'll take a look at git-buildpackaging in a sec again
<alourie|work> slytherin: the for loop that takes .po files and transforms them into .mo files into other directory
<slytherin> alourie|work: And what the names of the packages?
<AnAnt> actually regarding sl-modem, this package has a number of problems
<slytherin> and please paste your install files as well
<alourie|work> slytherin: the original I left as wordpress, a new one is wordpress-l10n
<AnAnt> I just got an email from an upstream maintainer from linmodems.org, saying that no one in Jaunty is able to use it even with ALSA driver
<slytherin> alourie|work: .mo files should go into l10n package right?
<AnAnt> and that the only person (from Brasil) who was able to get it working in Jaunty, actually used a kernel from Debian
<dholbach> AnAnt: don't worry - nobody is blaming you in the slightest
<dholbach> AnAnt: might be worth talking to dtchen (about alsa) and stuff
<alourie|work> slytherin: yes, that's what I'm trying to do
<dholbach> maybe to the #ubuntu-kernel folks to
<slytherin> alourie|work: then shouldn't this line - msgfmt $$i -o debian/wordpress/usr/share/wordpress/wp-content/languages/$$OUT - be like this - msgfmt $$i -o debian/wordpress-l10n/usr/share/wordpress/wp-content/languages/$$OUT
<AnAnt> I just layed my hands on a laptop with a smartlink modem here, but it uses Hardy, so I'll test with a jaunty live DVD
<alourie|work> slytherin: oh god
<alourie|work> I knew I'm missing something simple
<alourie|work> thanks a lot :-)
<AnAnt> the other problem of sl-modem (which I've mailed about months ago on ubuntu-devel ML) is that it is non-free, hence it cannot use class_dunnowhat functions to create dynamic device nodes
<AnAnt> those functions can only be called by GPL modules
<AnAnt> and sl-modem is BSD licensed
<alourie|work> dholbach: it really helped, thanks to you too :-)
<AnAnt> since Ubuntu is against static devices, that could be a problem
<dholbach> no worries
<dholbach> argh :/
<dholbach> AnAnt: did you speak to keybuk about that?
<dholbach> he might know what's to do
<AnAnt> now a third issue,is that another maintainer (from linmodems) just emailed a couple of days ago saying that slmodem's modules don't seem to be working with 2.6.31 kernels
<AnAnt> so that's 3 problems :)
<AnAnt> dholbach: yeah I talked to him during jaunty cycle
<AnAnt> dholbach: but we got no where
<AnAnt> dholbach: Ubuntu is against static devices
<AnAnt> dholbach: the only solution that I know (and I've done here on my laptop but didn't test yet) is probably illegal !
<dholbach> is there a workaround of some sort?
<AnAnt> dholbach: actually the previous maintainer did that to slmodem's USB module , he changed the license to Dual BSD/GPL
<AnAnt> so I did the same to the AMR module
<AnAnt> and enabled the class* functions (he disabled them with some patch)
<AnAnt> so that compiles, but I'm not sure if it works or not
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> that sounds like it should live in a testing ppa and we should do a broader call for testing
<sistpoty|work> didrocks: for clutter-1.0, is gobject-introspection-repository required at version 0.6.3 or does 0.6.1-2 suffice? (because we don't have that on sparc yet, and there seems to be a dependency cycle :/)
<AnAnt> there is something in my PPA I think
<AnAnt> regarding legality/illegality , debian bug 354216 has a long discussion about the matter
<ubottu> Debian bug 354216 in sl-modem-source "upstream license patched in debian package" [Unknown,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/354216
<AnAnt> brb
<slytherin> Does anyone know any particular reason why libffado is not build for lpia anymore? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/libffado/+builds
<slytherin> hmm probably TheMuso knows
<AnAnt> back
<geser> slytherin: Architecture: i386 amd64 powerpc
<slytherin> geser: I know, but at some point of time it was built for lpia. Also jack-audio-connection-kit has this build dependency - libffado-dev (>= 1.999) [amd64 i386 lpia powerpc]
<slytherin> geser: It looks like change was lost between merges. Since Debian doesn't have lpia arch they removed it. And the package was simply synced from Debian.
<geser> looking at the changes it went from arch: any -> i386 amd64 powerpc
<geser> looks like it was forgotten to add lpia
<slytherin> right
<TheMuso> geser, slytherin, I'd say thats what happened.
<siretart`> debfx: no, dh7 sounds great!
<slytherin> TheMuso: So what do you suggest? Should I add lpia to arch?
<TheMuso> slytherin: Sure if you want to take care of it, go ahead.
<slytherin> TheMuso: I was just trying to fix this NBS - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libffado0 If we don't want libffado on lpia then those packages should be removed from lpia.
<didrocks> sistpoty|work: IIRC, 0.6.3 is needed. Let me check this evening
<sistpoty|work> didrocks: ok, thanks
<sistpoty|work> didrocks: of course if you've got a better idea how to break the build-dep cycle for sparc ... ;)
<didrocks> sistpoty|work: 0.6.4 is needed in fact
<didrocks> (on last clutter as a new release just happened)
<sistpoty|work> hm...
<loic-m> Would a kind archive admin have the time to sponsor a sync for a new program (Bug #430024)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430024 in ubuntu "[FFE] Please sync mupen64plus 1.5+dfsg1-4 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430024
<loic-m> (would fix a few bug request in LP ;) )
<Laney> no need to ask, they will get to it
<sistpoty|work> it will need to go through new, so the question should rather be if an archive admin would want to denew it ;)
<loic-m> Laney: sistpoty asked me to check if an AA would be ok to new it before he ACKed it
<loic-m> sistpoty|work: right, I shouldn't have said sponsor. I'll try to remember the denew word...
 * sistpoty|work doesn't even know if denew is a word :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: ahahah! I used mupen64plus myself a long time :D
<sebner> sistpoty|work: another chance to play mario kart/ ehh to test this application carefully before giving a ACK
<sistpoty|work> sebner: heh
<sistpoty|work> sebner: too bad, I already gave my +1 :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: there is no "MOTU or universe sponsors ACK" so it's a release ACK :P
<sistpoty|work> :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: +1, I can't say no when it uses dh7 and quilt, even less when it's something to play *g*
<sistpoty|work> haha
<eni23> hello everyone. i've got a question: someone i know created a programm callled vsxu. it works fine with ubuntu but it's not packed. now i've created a deb. what i have to do to gei it in the repos?
<sebner> !revu | eni23
<ubottu> eni23: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<sebner> eni23: we are in Feature Freeze for karmic now so it won't appear until the next ubuntu release
<eni23> i see it, that's no problem. thanks, this "revu" is all i need!
<sebner> :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: nexuiz seems to be pretty b0rken currently. Any ETA how long we can push it it?
<AnAnt> dholbach: I reported the first sl-modem problem on LP 431799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431799 in sl-modem "sl-modem users cannot establish a connection using ALSA mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431799
<AnAnt> regarding this bug ^ , since it has been reported to me by upstream (who said that several users reported this problem to him), and since I confirmed that this bug exists, should I set the status to Confirmed ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: sounds good
<dholbach> even though I don't know how I could help out with that! :)
<AnAnt> dholbach: I think I should set it to Confirmed
<dholbach> *nod*
<AnAnt> done
<quadrispro> any release manager around?
<quadrispro> hi dholbach
<dholbach> quadrispro: I'm not on the release team
<dholbach> quadrispro: but hi! :)
<quadrispro> dholbach: yeah, I know, I just wanted to tell you "hi"! :D
 * dholbach hugs quadrispro
 * quadrispro hugs dholbach, too
<debfx> siretart`: how did you import new releases? something like bzr merge-upstream --version 0.4.1 ../keepassx-0.4.1.tar.gz ?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: not too sure, let's see how long it'll take
<siretart`> debfx: yes, when the branch has the correct tags, that's what I mostly do
<siretart`> debfx: I used to do that by hand using 'bzr import' on some package, not sure if keepassx is one of them (I hope not)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: we might see -data tomorrow but the rest takes more time as upstream b0rked the sources
<siretart`> no, doesn't seem so
<debfx> siretart`: that command is failing with an AssertionError
<sistpoty|work> sebner: yeah, have heard about it
<sebner> sistpoty|work: anyways, I'll keep track of it, just wanted to give an progress update
<sistpoty|work> sebner: alrighty :)
<siretart`> debfx: oh, that's a bug then :(
<siretart`> need to run
<debfx> siretart`: yeah it's failing even with a newly created branch
<siretart`> debfx: perhaps james_w can help you with that? - anyway, I'll be back online this evening. cu!
<debfx> siretart`: bye
<quadrispro> DktrKranz: non uppare nulla
<slytherin> TheMuso: I am not personally interested in taking care of 'libffado'. Is there anyone else who cares personally for this package?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<ScottK> slytherin: I don't think so, we just need to work as a team to get the transition done (I've done some of that one already)
<slytherin> ScottK: The problem is that the lpia got dropped form arch somewhere between the merges and syncs. And now we have a outdated libffado on lpia and a libjack0 that depends on it. So I was wondering if I should add lpia again to libffado.
<ScottK> I would say yes.
<ScottK> We need to get the old one out of the archive, so that's probably the best approach
<slytherin> Ok. I will check if it still builds in lpia (with help of PPA) and then upload it.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: what do you think about mupen64plus (bug #430024)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430024 in ubuntu "[FFE] Please sync mupen64plus 1.5+dfsg1-4 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430024
<ScottK> I haven't had a chance to consider it.
<sistpoty|work> k
<slytherin> Our buildd have hardy running, right?
<maxb> slytherin: I think it's "latest supported LTS". Apparently the powerpc ones are running Dapper
<slytherin> maxb: I know about powerpc. There is a particular build failure which is seen only on buildd using old kernels. I am not sure how old. It succeeded on armel.
<RainCT> kirkland: does your advocation on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs also count for the last upload?
<kirkland> RainCT: i haven't had a chance to look at the last upload
<kirkland> RainCT: the one i did look at was good, though
<RainCT> kirkland: OK, the changes look OK (other than the addition of a new entry in debian/changelog). I'll upload it then
<kirkland> RainCT: thanks a bunch
<RainCT> kirkland: uhm.. doesn't that FTB? http://paste.ubuntu.com/272937/ (the line after the commented out one)
<kirkland> RainCT: yeah, that should be one <tab>
<kirkland> RainCT: make hates on whitespace incongruencies
<RainCT> kirkland: ah yeah well, my point was more about the line not being commented out too, though ;)
<RainCT> anyway, nevermind :P
<RainCT> kirkland: Now that I remember, did you see my message in #ubuntu-devel about the postinst failure I got with byobu?
<kirkland> RainCT: oh, no i haven't
<kirkland> RainCT: where's this?
<kirkland> RainCT: is there a bug?
<RainCT> kirkland: Well, it's rather corner-case one but still would be good to be fixed. Basically, I had a user with which I used screen but then removed that user; after doing that the directory for it in /var/run/screen remained there and byobu chocked on that during installation, as it couldn't do the chmod
<RainCT> so I'd say either check for the user's existance or make that chunk of code non-fatal
<kirkland> RainCT: i'll just make sure that the dir is writable
<kirkland> RainCT: nonfatal if not
<kirkland> RainCT: all it's doing is trying to put the <F5> tag at the bottom of any running sessions
<kirkland> RainCT: so that you know to refresh your profile
<ejat> where should i check if the splash wont show up while booting ?
<RainCT> Just found a problem with tahoe-lafs's debian/copyright, btw.
<RainCT> (Unless I'm outdated on the current requriements. Stuff not in common-licenses/ must be copied into debian/copyright, and not in a separate file, right?)
<sistpoty|work> RainCT: that's what 12.5 says
<sistpoty|work> (policy)
<RainCT> sistpoty|work: Right, just asking to be sure :)
<RainCT> Thanks
<sistpoty|work> np ;)
 * sistpoty|work admits to needed to look it up again, as he only recalled that policy does say it somewhere
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<debfx> siretart: keepassx 0.4.1-1 should be ready to be uploaded to debian
<siretart> debfx: I'm currently building and testing it
<siretart> oh, it talks german again to me :-)
<sebner> siretart: german ftw! *g*
<siretart> debfx: did you receive the ACCEPTED mail?
<debfx> siretart: yeah got the mail
<bddebian> siretart: I just accepted rumor, it's back again already? :)
<jdong> *strangles git*
<jdong> grrrr pushing a repo over ssh to expose over plain http should NOT be this tough :-/
<jdong> lol whoops, help if I name the post-update hook correctly
<jdong> I retract that complaint about git ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, could you take a look to bug #430913 please? Thank you :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430913 in jaunty-backports "Please backport nginx 0.6.39 to Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430913
<ScottK> Sure
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Looks like a good start.  Now you need some test results (builds can be got from the PPA, but need installs/runs).  Alse, were these no change backports?  If not, we need a debdiff.  We don't need the diff.gz.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok, I've installed everything and see if they wererunning, and they did. So I'll add a comment. and I'll put the debdiff them I took the package from jaunty, updated the upstream version, and created different entries for intrepid, and for jaunty
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<RoAkSoAx> ok then, I'll attach the debdiffs
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, done
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Need the debdiff from karmic to what you want to backport, not from what's in hardy/intrepid/jaunty
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, in karmic we have nginx 0.7.61-1ubuntu1. What I did is take the jaunty package 0.6.35-0ubuntu1 and update it to 0.6.39-0ubuntu1, because that release is the one that contains the security fix on the nginx 0.6.x series. In karmic we have 0.7.x series and the fix is on 0.7.62. So, what would I need to do then?
<ScottK> OK, let me think about that.
<RoAk> ScottK, ok, just PM cause I have to go. Later
 * warner makes changes to the tahoe package, as suggested on REVU
<warner> for a new package, should I set urgency=low ? I think I copied that from something else originally.. not sure if it's appropriate or not
<warner> ok, new tahoe package is up on REVU
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-18
<chrisccoulson> hi, could someone from motu-release take a quick look at bug 432169 and let me know if they think i'm ok to go ahead and upload (when I've finished packaging it), or whether I will need to do a FF exception request for it instead?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432169 in libgda4 "Please update to 4.0.4" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432169
<Laney> chrisccoulson: did you see that it's in debian
<Laney> ?
<chrisccoulson> Laney - i didn't, but i do now ;)
<Laney> always handy!
<chrisccoulson> pah, debian have renamed all of the binary packages
<chrisccoulson> they're different to ours now
<Laney> boo
<chrisccoulson> it might be best just to update for now and then re-sync with debian next cycle
<chrisccoulson> saying that, it doesn't have many rdepends
<chrisccoulson> i suppose if I'm going to do a MIR for libgda4, i should probably rebase it with Debian before that actually
<qwebirc69935> hello, i'm working on a translation for a program with PoEdit. but the language i'm translating into is RTL so i wanted to test some lines before i continue. is there a way to do that?
<qwebirc69935> hello, i'm working on a translation for a program with PoEdit. but the language i'm translating into is RTL so i wanted to test some lines before i continue. is there a way to do that?
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> ScottK: You had mentioned that using xvfb when building java-gnome will not work on sparc. Is there any particular reason for that?
<dholbach> james_w is doing reviews in #ubuntu-reviews
<slytherin> dholbach: I forgot to tell you think sometime back. I tried merging ttf-indic-fonts but was not successful. I don't have mush knowledge about fonts and hints and wasn't sure which files should go in which package.
<dholbach> slytherin: best to ask ArneGoetje
<dholbach> I merely gave it a quick review because I was sponsoring
<dholbach> Arne worked on some splitting of the package
<slytherin> hmm
<rombust> Hi, I'm after some information to update an existing package. It is "libclanlib", maintainer "Ubuntu MOTU Developers".
<rombust> It is using a very old version (0.8), that migrated into 1.0 - That is now unsupported by the clanlib developers.
<rombust> Now ClanLib 2.0.4 has been released ( http://clanlib.org/examples.html ) - I need to find who (if any) are maintaining the clanlib package
<rombust> (Note, ClanLib 2.0.0 is not compatible with ClanLib 1.0.0 - And should be treated as a seperate package)
<james_w> rombust: the last uploader of that package is not on IRC currently
<james_w> https://launchpad.net/~andreserl
<james_w> rombust: you could talk to the Debian/Ubuntu games team as they maintain it
<rombust> james_w: Thanks
<slytherin> james_w: If you are not too busy can you please review java-gnome in NEW queue and approve it. The package is in queue because of a new -doc binary package.
<james_w> slytherin: give me a minute and I'll take a look
<slytherin> thanks
<toabctl> hi all
<toabctl> does anybody know why /dev/log is no more available in karmic?
<ScottK> slytherin: It (xvfb) is broken on sparc.  It either sefaults or fails to start.
<slytherin> ScottK: Ok.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :D
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<walterl> hi
<walterl> i'm updating two packages with the new version of package A depending on the new version of package B. how can i add the new version of package B to my pbuilder environment to allow package A to be built?
<sistpoty|work> walterl: personally I'm using mini-dinstall to have a local repo and am pointing my sources list of the pbuilder chroot to that as an additional entry
<sistpoty|work> walterl: but if it's only one package, you could simply --login --save-after-login and install the package just inside the chroot
<walterl> sistpoty|work: as in `sudo pbuilder --login --save-after-login`?
<sistpoty|work> walterl: yes... (this will also print you where the chroot is exctracted, in case you want to copy files from/to it)
<walterl> sistpoty|work: great, thanks!
<sistpoty|work> np
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<sebner> huhu bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work, sebner
<jagadish> hello can any body help me how to make at command execute using bash shell instead of sh shell
<sebner> jagadish: you can pass SHELL=/bin/bash to the make command
<jagadish> where in the shell script
<jagadish> done mind iam new to shell script
<sebner> jagadish: in your rules file? when you have a shell script to only have to change the shebang
<jagadish> #bashcheck
<jagadish> SHELL=bin/bash
<jagadish> echo "this is bash sript" > file
<jagadish> #bashcheck
<jagadish> SHELL=bin/bash
<dholbach> sebner: do you know the -v<version> argument for debuild? :)
<jagadish> echo "this is bash sript" > file
<jagadish> no i dont know can u help me
<sebner> dholbach: heh, sure. I'll tell my laziness :\
<sebner> jagadish: I don't really know what you want :\ does it has something todo with -motu?
<jagadish> i want to execute my shell using bash which is scedule using at utility command
<zul> dholbach: for the xen-3.4 stuff its probably too late now
<dholbach> #ubuntu-classroom Session in 8 minutes: How to run an Ubuntu Jam session!
<dholbach> zul: I just noticed because it's hanging around for a bit longer already
<zul> dholbach: should I unsubscribe the main-sponsorship?
<dholbach> zul: if you subscribe to it, and tell the sponsor, I guess it should be fine
<zul> dholbach: k thanks!
<sebner> jagadish: your shellscript just has to use #!/bin/bash as shebang
<jagadish> ya i did it like that only but when i sechduled using at utility command it gives me a waring it is going to execute in /bin/sh
<jagadish> and prints my scheduled time
<wubbbi> Hello :) how can I help on Developing ubuntu? I have not so much c++ experience ... so are there any tiny things I can do? I got a lot of freetime today :)
<dholbach> wubbbi: be sure to check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted and take it from there
<dholbach> all the important documentation is linked to there
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I'd appreciate it if you'd look at the matplotlib FFe.  I think we want it and it's ready.
<wubbbi> dholbach: Do you have this side in german too? this would be very helpfull!
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: *looking*
<ScottK> THanks.
<dholbach> wubbbi: I'm afraid not... we're thinking about translating the packaging guide, but that's not done yet
<dholbach> wubbbi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Videos has some (English videos), if you prefer that
<dholbach> but sitll it's English
<wubbbi> ok ... I'll try my best. But in english it it harder to understand for me ^^
<RoAkSoAx> dholbach, what's the process to apply to u-u-s?
<dholbach> RoAkSoAx: just tell any of the admins to add you to the team
<dholbach> I'm not
<dholbach> but persia and TheMuso are
<dholbach> and I guess somebody else too :)
<RoAkSoAx> dholbach, cool thanks :)
<mok0> RoAkSoAx: congrats on MOTUism
<sebner> aloha mok0 :)
<mok0> yo, sebner!
<RoAkSoAx> mok0, thank you :)
<sebner> mok0: everything fine? =)
<mok0> Uhm, yes
<mok0> sebner: sunny outside, friday afternoon.... what more can you wish for?
<sebner> mok0: heh, I still have holidays so I don't really care :P
<mok0> sebner: out of the grasp of the army?
<sebner> mok0: yeah, already 2 months ago :) starting with university in 2 weeks
<mok0> sebner: good for you!
<sebner> mok0: thx, we'll see ^^
<mok0> sebner: what subject?
<sebner> mok0: computer science ... surprise, surprise ... what a surprise ^^
<mok0> sebner: ah, another one :-)
<sebner> mok0: more exactly Software and Information Engineering
<ScottK> It's more of an art than a science, but whatever ...
<sebner> ScottK: haha! xD
<mok0> sebner: how do you "engineer" information? Is that legal? :-P
<sebner> mok0: pssst, nobody needs to know :P
<mok0> "I'm in the information engineering business"
<sebner> heh
<mok0> Just one of these crafty buzzword type of things designed to lure students into the fold
<mok0> ;-)
<mok0> "nano-technology" is the big buzzword thing at my faculty
<sebner> mok0: hmm, no worries. I can chance next year to computer engineering
<sebner> *change
<mok0> sebner: nice
<mok0> Dunno much about computer science; I do know there's a split between engineering type and the more academic type
<sebner> mok0: and if everything is too difficult for me I'll choose media informatics *g*
<AnAnt> nhandler: seen LP 404272
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404272 in dh-make-perl "FTBFS: tests failed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404272
<mok0> :-) lol
<AnAnt> mterry: I think you should subscribe motu-release to this bug ^
<AnAnt> mterry: erm, no, sorry
<sebner> mok0: btw, guess what just happened. The whole days I worked hard to fill ubuntu-archive with sync requests and I really got >50% rate of sync requests and then a overmotivated archive-admin destroyed everything and now I have 0 *g*
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: matplotlib confirmed
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks
<mok0> sebner: yydrk, destroyed, how?
<sebner> mok0: aka processed the syncs xD
<mok0> sebner: these were FFE's?
<sebner> mok0: nope, FTBFS fixes for latest archive rebuild
<mok0> sebner: wicked
<sebner> mok0: yeah, 15!
<mok0> sebner: did you note down which ones they were?
 * mok0 never trusts a computer, always has a notebook
<sebner> mok0: I personally know the names but as the rebuild status site doesn't have a comment field ...
<mok0> sebner: sigh
<james_w> am I being stupid? This python package doesn't call setup.py install before dh_install
<james_w> I thought that it would
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, any ideas on the nginx backport issue?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: I didn't get a chance to look at in in detail yet.  Probably tonight or tomorrow.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok cool, thanks :)
<james_w> wha?
<james_w> cdbs runs setup.py install after arch: all debs have been built but before arch: any debs are built?
<leonel> beta freeze will be on  sept 24.  That's the  deadline for ubuntu universe package changes ?
<ScottK> leonel: It depends on the kind of changes.  We'll keep fixing stuff up past the RC freeze.
<james_w> ScottK: last release you had some ideas about making universe upload freezes better around release time
<james_w> are we going to change them to match this time?
<leonel> ScottK  Long time no see ,   Debian unstable has  cherokee 0.99.22  and karmic  has  0.99.19    I've pushed  0.99.24 to Debian unstable and is on queue for inclusion,  so  the last date is  sept 24 for cherokee 0.99.24  ??
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  Is it bug fixes or new features too?
<ScottK> james_w: I did.  We froze way before we needed to due to security in soyuz.
<leonel> Scottk  both,  cherokee  is a fast moving target, and getting ready for  version 1.0
<ScottK> leonel: Then you'll need to ask for a feature freeze exception and we'll review it.
<ScottK> james_w: It looks like mirror sync before release is the driver for when the last upload for Universe can happen now.  I need to bring this up at a release team meeting.  Thanks for reminding me.
<leonel> ScottK ok
<james_w> ScottK: great, thanks for trying to improve this
<lamalex> Can someone help me figure out why my quilt-generated patch isn't applying when building the deb?
<ScottK> lamalex: Is it listed in debian/patches/series?
<lamalex> it's failing to find the appropriate level, shouldn't that be automagic with quilt?
<lamalex> ScottK: yeah, it's attempting to apply and failing
<ScottK> You have to specify the first time you import it, IIRC, but I'm not a quilt expert.
<james_w> you can also specify it in the series file
<james_w> I'm pretty sure it's not automagix
<lamalex> hm. ive got no idea how to figure out what level it should apply at
<tarundeep> how can I start contributing to ubuntu developmenet
<lamalex> ah, got it
<lamalex> original maintainer had apparently copied and pasted their rules file and had a rule for a patch system they weren't using!
<leonel> ScottK Just checked with main debian maintainer for cherokee  and we need to do some repackaging before  0.99.24 gets into unstable so   the current version in Debian Unstable is 99.22  and karmic has  0.99.19   can a merge be done ?
<ScottK> If it has new features, you still need to do the FFe, but probably.
<leonel> ok thanks
<randomaction> tarundeep: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<tarundeep> thanks
<tarundeep> I am following the instructions on following page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate but while doing  debuild -S -sa I get following error - Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<tarundeep>  signfile brasero_0.6.1-ubuntu4.dsc MY NAME <MY EMAIL> gpg: skipped "MY NAME": secret key not available - although I can see keys in GNU Privacy Assistant
<randomaction> If you're not really going to upload the package, you can build it with debuild -S -uc -us
<randomaction> i.e. without signing it
<tarundeep> ok if i want to upload the package than how to sign it ?
<wubbbi> I have sendet my gnupg key 10000 times to the key server. But I still cant use it on launchpad -.-
<wubbbi> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys .... is this wrong?
<tarundeep> wubbbi: I am also facing same problem, I have also uploaded key to keyserver but it is not visible
<wubbbi> is the keyserver broken atm?
<geser> is your key visible on other keyservers?
<geser> as the keyservers exchange the keys you can choose the keyserver you want for uploading your key
<tarundeep> ok I will try that thanks
<sebner> geser: you're lucky that I can upload myself. 15 sync requests and ~5 uploads to fix FTBFS \o/
<geser> nice
<sebner> geser: for a short period of time I was responsible for >50% of the sync requests for ubuntu-archive :P
<wubbbi> What is going on with the ubuntu keyserver? oO
<wubbbi> ok ... I have done the tutorial for ubuntu development. Now. What can I do?
<ScottK> wubbbi: I think there is a session on fixing build failures in #ubuntu-classroom in ~15 minutes.  Join that and see what you find to do.
 * ScottK hopes he got the time right.
<wubbbi> ScottK: ok thank you
<sebner> ScottK: yep 19 UTC
<sebner> sistpoty: good timing ^^
<sistpoty> sebner: heh, yes... just finished eating and getting my system back up :)
<sebner> heh :)
<asomething> FTBFS session starting now in #ubuntu-classroom
<dhillon-v10> hi andv
<RainCT> Anyone got Ubuntu One working on Debian?
<funkyHat> Running pbuilder --create puts a file in /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz - but running pbuilder-dist karmic build looks for the tgz in ~/pbuilder/karmic-base.tgz
<funkyHat> Have I done something wrong?
<psusi> I'm trying to setup an install with debootstrap, but run into issues when chrooting into the new system to install more packages... for instance, at fails to install because it can't start the daemon ( of course it can't, it's already running on the real system and should not try to start again inside the chroot ), am I doing something wrong?
<geser> funkyHat: pbuilder itself supports only one pbuilder, pbuilder-dist is a wrapper around pbuilder to support several pbuilders (e.g. different Ubuntu releases)
<funkyHat> geser: oh, so I should be using pbuilder-dist when creating as well?
<geser> so either create one with pbuilder-dist karmic create (or move your existing base.tgz to the by pbuilder-dist expected location)
<funkyHat> Ok :)
<funkyHat> Thanks
<funkyHat> Yeah, I did that and it worked
<directhex> i don't have pbuilder-dist
<directhex> i have a custom pbuilderrc which uses environment vars to allow multiple builders
<geser> sistpoty: a ...+dsfg-1 upload doesn't need a FFe if it's for the same upstream version, right?
<sistpoty> geser: I consider stripping non-free sources a bugfix, so if that's the only change, no FFe needed
<geser> sistpoty: the other changes are packaging changes: http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/pdftk/news/20090918T120217Z.html
<geser> it's to fix bug 384515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384515 in pdftk "pdftk - Files - Sun confidential code" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384515
<sistpoty> geser: it's not really over my threshold for a FFe...
<sistpoty> geser: though the "doesn't work" thingy you wrote in the bug report should be fixed :O
<geser> sistpoty: the current version in karmic works, but contains those problematic source files
<geser> my attempt to fix it didn't work
<geser> now there is a version in debian that fixes it and works :)
<sistpoty> geser: ah, excellent
<sistpoty> geser: just quote me in the sync request that no FFe is needed
<sebner> sistpoty: I'm always wondering if anyone have/will fake such a quote *hrhr*
<sistpoty> sebner: I'm reading -changes and sometimes look at sync request to ensure it's all ok :P
<sebner> sistpoty: sometimes :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<geser> sebner: now you are being watched by sistpoty to not to try it :)
<sebner> geser: hehe, don't worry I usually request a FFe for stuff (games!) sistpoty ACKes volunteering with pleasure :P
 * sistpoty always checks if critical changes to games still work... that's a tough job *g*
<sebner> We spent hours and hours of our freetime to check carefully if really __everything__ is OKAY! *hrhr*
<sebner> *spend even
<rowinggolfer_> help needed, my karmic box is upgrading. and has asked this question
<rowinggolfer_> Setting up cups-pdf (2.5.0-8) ...
<rowinggolfer_>  * Reloading Common Unix Printing System: cupsd                          [ OK ]
<rowinggolfer_> Password for root on localhost?
<rowinggolfer_> a root password? this is ubuntu... I'm lost... help!
<sistpoty> rowinggolfer_: can you ask tkamppeter (in #ubuntu-devel) about that? afaict the reason for this might be the ppd auto-update feature, so the fix should be known... (and eventually already be uploaded to proper, but tkamppeter knows for sure)
<rowinggolfer_> sistpoty, thanks. will do
<rowinggolfer_> sistpoty, ta.. they sorted me out.
<c_korn> hello, I am trying to fix gambas2. it FTBFS because of the const char* to char* conversion thing. it fails in line 5 here. http://pastebin.com/d3445f605 currently I do not find another solution than just doing a cast there.
<sistpoty> c_korn: you could copy the string (strcpy) perform the substituion there, and use the copy to lookup the result
<sistpoty> c_korn: but you'd need to make sure to free the copied string then again
<sistpoty> c_korn: need an example?
<c_korn> eh, would be better. I did not code in C for years.
<sistpoty> c_korn: I'll do it right in pastebin, so I hope that it will compile ;)
<c_korn> fine
<sistpoty> c_korn: http://pastebin.com/m3ad8b33e
<adorilson_> hi
<sistpoty> c_korn: eventually you'll need to #include <assert.h> (or <cassert> for c++) for the assertion
<sistpoty> hi adorilson_
<adorilson_> can i report packages bug on ubuntu 9.04?
<adorilson_> ( sorry, my english. english is not my native language )
<sistpoty> adorilson_: ideally with ubuntu-bug <packagename> on a shell ;)
<adorilson_> the zend-framework package is bugged
<adorilson_> sistpoty, it's nice. i don't knowed
<sistpoty> funkyHat: libofa uploaded, thanks!
<sistpoty> adorilson_: you're welcome
<funkyHat> yay :)
<sistpoty> (sorry, was distracted so I didn't get around to uploading it earlier)
<funkyHat> sistpoty: that's fine, geser helped me correct an error I had with my initial patch anyway :)
<sistpoty> :)
<c_korn> sistpoty: ah, so the call to strchr() with the char* as argument executes the implementation which also returns a char* ? and this can then be modified.
<c_korn> what happens if the assertion fails ? does the app crash ? or just output an error to &2 ?
<c_korn> (well if s is NULL the app will propably crash anyway)
<geser> c_korn: strchr() points to the first occurance of the second argument in the string (1st argument) and returns a pointer to it. if it a r/w variable (char *) you get a pointer which can also be modified, if you used it on a read-only variable (const char *) you get a pointer which is also const char *
<chrisccoulson> c_korn - strchr returns a pointer to the first occurrence of the character you specify. so, if you pass a const char*, then the returned pointer will also be a const char*
<chrisccoulson> heh,  what geser said ;)
<c_korn> heh, thanks geser and chrisccoulson
<sistpoty> c_korn: it will abort() so it will crash, but that happens only if there's no memory left (which is pretty fatal anyways)
<geser> c_korn: it will crash, but if strcpy() fails you are doomed anyway
<sistpoty> heh
<c_korn> :) thanks
<adorilson_> sistpoty, what command list the archives is in a package?
<sistpoty> adorilson_: I'm sorry, I don't quite understand... do you mean if it is in main or in universe?
<sistpoty> adorilson_: or do you mean the contents of the package?
<geser> apt-cache madison $pkg is what I use
<adorilson_> I mean the contents of the package
<sistpoty> adorilson_: dpkg -L <package>
<c_korn> or apt-file list <package> if it is not installed
<geser> if it's installed, if you have a deb then "less", else packages.ubuntu.com
<c_korn> hm, main.cpp:1023: error: invalid conversion from âintâ to âDataset*â
<c_korn> sistpoty: line 15 of your paste fails with this error http://pastebin.com/m3ad8b33e
<adorilson_> sistpoty, dpkg -L is work. thanks
<sistpoty> np
<c_korn> hm, yes. ret should be of type int
<sistpoty> c_korn: sorry, yes, you're correct... (that's the problem with /me doing a patch in pastebin... I don't get the matching bracket highlighted there *g*)
<adorilson_> sistpoty, is ok this report? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zend-framework/+bug/432783
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432783 in zend-framework "Package don't have any archives" [Undecided,New]
<sistpoty> adorilson_: yes, thanks!
<sistpoty> adorilson_: without really knowing, maybe the files are in a dependency (here in libzend-framework-php)?
<adorilson_> sistpoty, I think don't. because I don't found the shell scripts zf*
<sistpoty> adorilson_: can you add this to the bug report please?
<adorilson_> sistpoty, yes, sure
<sistpoty> thanks!
<c_korn> sistpoty: it compiled successfully. thanks.
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> strange debian/rules, courier: if [ `umask` != "0022" ]; then echo "You need to set umask to 022 in order to compile/build courier"; exit 1; fi
<adorilson_> sistpoty, the report bug is updated
<ScottK> sistpoty: courier is a 'fun' package.  I've given it to people as a merge for a final exam when going for MOTU.
<ScottK> One person gave up and never came back.
<sistpoty> adorilson_: thanks
<sistpoty> ScottK: heh, yeah :)
<c_korn> sistpoty: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gambas2/+bug/432792 there is the debdiff attached
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432792 in gambas2 "FTBFS: invalid conversion from const char* to char*" [Undecided,New]
<sistpoty> c_korn: /me looks
<sistpoty> c_korn: from a glimpse it looks good, test-building. If you haven't done so, can you forward the patch please?
<c_korn> sistpoty: it builds fine here. so I should forward to debian using submittodebian ?
<sistpoty> c_korn: yes
<sistpoty> (/me uses reportbug -B debian <sourcepackage> since he hasn't installed ubuntu-dev-tools *g*
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-19
 * ScottK just edited the reportbug conffile to always go back to Debian
<funkyHat> I'm poking around in the epiphany package, which is FTBFS, and the configure script exits with an error because it can't find an install script
<sistpoty> funkyHat: got a link to the error? (or a failing build log?)
<funkyHat> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31705993/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.feisty-wallpapers_0.13_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<c_korn> ScottK: always go back to debian ?
<funkyHat> Wait that's not it, sorry -.-
<sistpoty> c_korn: to upstreams bug tracker is also a possibility
<funkyHat> sistpoty:
<funkyHat> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31703294/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.epiphany_0.7.0-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<funkyHat> middle-click fail :(
<ScottK> c_korn: reportbug in Ubuntu is set not to report to Debian by default.  You can change that in I forget which file in /etc and I've done that since I only use reportbug for reporting bugs to Debian.
<c_korn> ScottK: ah, ok. should do that, too. thanks for the hint.
<sistpoty> funkyHat: can you pastebin debian/rules please?
<sistpoty> (my box is a little bit laden right now with building 3 packages)
<funkyHat> sistpoty: http://pastebin.com/f570c7997
<sistpoty> funkyHat: interesting, from the packages drawn in as build-depends I imagined that it would run autotools during build (which is not the case)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: let me take a look at the source package
<funkyHat> sistpoty: the error comes from the configure script, ~ line 1731 http://pastebin.com/m1f5d82a1
<sistpoty> c_korn: sorry, gambas2 upload still in the queue, I rebuild *without* applying the debdiff :(
<c_korn> sistpoty: you mean the bug has already been fixed and is in the queue ?
<sistpoty> c_korn: nope, local rebuild
<sistpoty> (so that I don't upload a package where I didn't apply any debdiff *g*)
<c_korn> sistpoty: ah, ok :)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: ah, I see it now after unpacking the source package: lrwxrwxrwx 1 stefan stefan     35 2009-09-19 01:26 install-sh -> /usr/share/automake-1.10/install-sh
<irvingpop> Hi,  I'm looking for some help (or a good guide) packaging a program which has never been packaged before for Ubuntu/Debian
<sistpoty> funkyHat: nowadays, we've got automake 1.11
<funkyHat> sistpoty: oh! feel silly for not noticing that :)
<irvingpop> It's Flashcam ( http://www.swift-tools.net/Flashcam/ )
<irvingpop> I'm not the developer, but I need to run this in my environment and I'd like to build a PPA for it
<funkyHat> sistpoty: I updated the symlinks, but debuild doesn't like that, I think I need to make a patch that changes them instead, but not sure how?
<sistpoty> funkyHat: my best guess is to adjust debian/rules to call a ln -sf in the clean target
<ScottK> dh_links won't do it?
<sistpoty> ScottK: unless I'm mistaken, dh_link is for installing links in the package, but here the links are only needed for building
<ScottK> Ah.  I wasnt' following completely then.  Nevermind
<sistpoty> c_korn: sorry to bug you again, actually I did apply the debdiff in the first place, but still it doesn't work: main.cpp:935: error: invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char*
<c_korn> sistpoty: huh ?
<sistpoty> c_korn: let me check the build log
<c_korn> sistpoty: oh, grrr. the thing is. I am still on jaunty locally. which does not have the new gcc of course :(
<sistpoty> c_korn: that's what pbuilder is for ;)
<c_korn> sistpoty: yes, I used the wrong chroot actually :)
<sistpoty> heh
<c_korn> sistpoty: where does the error occur ?
<sistpoty> c_korn: http://paste.ubuntu.com/273849/
<sistpoty> c_korn: so main.cpp:935
<sistpoty> (why are FTBFS errors frequently on lines divisible by 5?)
<sistpoty> *g*
<c_korn> sistpoty: oh, I see. it is the same function. (only for sqlite2)
<funkyHat> Are the bits inside the rules just sh scripts (i.e. can I use for each, or should I just do an ln -sf for each one?)?
<sistpoty> funkyHat: actually rules is a makefile
<sistpoty> funkyHat: so you can (to some account) use shell... but with some caution
<sistpoty> funkyHat: each line is called in a separate subshell
<funkyHat> sistpoty: yeah, I've never used make before, I'm just trying to work out what I can do with it (looking at the make manual at gnu.org as well)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: so you'll need to add a \ at the end of a make line to have the following line not be executed in a different subshell
<funkyHat> Ok. Still seems slightly better than just doing each one separately
<sistpoty> funkyHat: likewise $ is reserved in make, so you'll need to escape it with a \ (for i in foo; do echo $$i; done)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: escape with another $ even... (strange enough when I type in shell code as make I my fingers recall the trick)
<funkyHat> for i in depcomp install-sh missing ; ln -sf /usr/share/automake-1.11/$$i $$i ; done
<c_korn> funkyHat: I think there is a "do" statement missing
<c_korn> funkyHat: after the first semicolon
<funkyHat> oops! thanks :)
 * sistpoty admits that he prefers to have these on extra lines... as that means less complexity but YMMV
<funkyHat> My thinking was if automake's version changes again, that's 2 less lines to update, but I guess it only makes a half a second difference, really
<sistpoty> yes, but changing 3 simple lines is easier than one complex line... but that's really just a matter of taste ;)
<funkyHat> dpkg-deb: warning: 'debian/epiphany-data/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field 'Original-Maintainer'
<funkyHat> Is that normal, and I've just missed it before?
<sistpoty> funkyHat: that's normal
<funkyHat> If I create a debian/patches dir, will it be automatically used?
<funkyHat> But surely I shouldn't have to? I'm confused about why my debdiff doesn't say anything about my change to debian/rules
<c_korn> funkyHat: did you run debuild -S -sa after your changes ?
<c_korn> and did you create a new changelog entry using dch -i ?
<funkyHat> I just did debuild -S - maybe that's the problem!
<funkyHat> c_korn: doesn't seem to make any difference
<c_korn> funkyHat: did you overwrite the original diff.gz by running debuild without having the changelog entry incremented (I am without haveing created a new entry) ?
<funkyHat> c_korn: possibly :(
<c_korn> funkyHat: so you have to redownload it.
<c_korn> just overwrite the diff.gz and .dsc file
<sistpoty> funkyHat: debian/patches is not automatically used if you manually added it
<funkyHat> Can I use a script to get the urls for just those?
<funkyHat> sistpoty: turns out I was being silly thinking I need to use it anyway, but thanks, I will remember that :)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: but as a rule of thumb: if the package is from debian, and doesn't have a patch system, then don't add one ;)
 * c_korn wonders about that rule. won't debian introduce a patch system then because direct code changes are ugly ?
<sistpoty> c_korn: what makes you believe that direct code changes are ugly?
<sistpoty> c_korn: imho (unless you've got a number of patches that you want to separate), a patch system is ugly
<c_korn> if there is a new upstream version the diff.gz might not apply any loner
<sistpoty> c_korn: just because a patch applies doesn't mean it's still valid
<sistpoty> c_korn: imo no patch system makes e.g. a debdiff or the .diff.gz much more readable, and doesn't add complexity to debian/rules (or to someone needing to change a file)
<funkyHat> Can I find the urls for thse files without apt-get source? I don't want to use that as it will overwrite my changes
<c_korn> sistpoty: well without a patch system this problem also exists. and if patches are seperated a patch can simply be dropped (but you already mentioned that)
<sistpoty> c_korn: the big drawback is however if there are a great number of patches, as you cannot separate these
<c_korn> funkyHat: they are in launchpad
<c_korn> funkyHat: or on packages.ubuntu.com
<c_korn> latter is not updated as regularly
<funkyHat> I was hoping for a command that would tell me them, but ok :)
<c_korn> well, I am also lokking for such a command
<sistpoty> funkyHat: apt-cache showsrc <packagename> gives you a directory
<sistpoty> funkyHat: so you can construct the url by http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/<directory>/<filename>
<sistpoty> (adjust the first part with mirror)
 * funkyHat might make a script for that :)
<funkyHat> If I find I want it again
<maxb> funkyHat: Look at pull-*-source from ubuntu-dev-tools
<c_korn> hm, that looks like apt-get source to me. would also pull the tarball
<sistpoty> hey mterry: looks like you're tackling the tough FTBFS... thanks a lot!
<funkyHat> c_korn: that would be fine as long as it doesn't extract it on top of my stuff
<c_korn> funkyHat: you can tell it to download only.
<funkyHat> Ok, I have a patch for universe for someone to sponsor :)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: the entire universe? :P
<sistpoty> funkyHat: otherwise debdiff's are welcome ;)
<funkyHat> sistpoty: the debdiff is already attached to a bug and waiting for me to subscribe someone ;Ã¾
<sistpoty> funkyHat: bug #?
<funkyHat> #432834
<funkyHat> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany/+bug/432834
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432834 in epiphany "patch to fix FTBFS" [Undecided,New]
 * sistpoty takes a look
<sistpoty> funkyHat: crack, you're ruining my processing of the sponsors queue. I must severly test epiphany :PO
<funkyHat> :Ã¾
<sistpoty> funkyHat: test-building... if it succeeds, can you forward the patch to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=543037 please?
<ubottu> Debian bug 543037 in epiphany "epiphany: FTBFS: configure: error: cannot find install-sh or" [Serious,Open]
<sistpoty> (the debian/rules snippet should suffice)
<funkyHat> sistpoty: I was wondering if I should forward the whole patch, or just the patch for debian/rules ?
<funkyHat> Ah :)
<sistpoty> heh
<funkyHat> Or whether I should make a patch with debian-y stuff in debian/changelog as well
<sistpoty> funkyHat: well, debian has a new version already, so you'd need to readjust that to forward it
<sistpoty> funkyHat: usually the patch itself is enough
<funkyHat> I was also in the middle of checking which version of automake is in debian at the moment, but forgot about it :)
<funkyHat> And it's 1.11 anyway
<c_korn> sistpoty: ok, now the package fails to build for me at another place: http://pastebin.com/d6818bdb
<sistpoty> c_korn: interesting, at a glimpse, it looks like a build-dependency decided to change the api
<c_korn> (again the line can be divided by 5 :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<c_korn> this is the line: 	snprintf(ctx,16*sizeof(char),"%.2g",THIS->doc->getPDFVersion());
<sistpoty> c_korn: I'd need to take a closer look, but please give me a few minutes
<c_korn> should I pastebin the whole file ?
<funkyHat> sistpoty: which bit do I need precisely, the line startind with diff -u or just the line starting with --- downwards?
<sistpoty> funkyHat: the one with ---
<funkyHat> Ok. let me know if it's ok to send :)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: ok to send
<funkyHat> Cool
<c_korn> hm, grep -R getPDFVersion . only outputs this line.
<funkyHat> Been wanting to get involved for months now, and finally managed to get somewhere :). Thanks for your help
<funkyHat> I will come back tomorrow and try and squish some more FTBFSs :)
<sistpoty> funkyHat: epiphany uploaded btw. ;)
<funkyHat> Yay :)
<sistpoty> (and crap, I lost a live at level 1)
<c_korn> in the PDFDoc.h file (where the class is defined) there is this now: http://pastebin.com/d2689dd6a
<sistpoty> c_korn: looks like you're one step in advance, I just looked up that the package to search for clues if obviously libpoppler-dev
<c_korn> yep, and here getPdfVersion() is introduced: http://www.mail-archive.com/poppler@lists.freedesktop.org/msg02946.html
<c_korn> hm, those changes are in qt/poppler-qt.h and not PDFDoc.h
<c_korn> puh, I am getting tired
<c_korn> sistpoty: here, the bad commit is: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/poppler/2009-August/005021.html
<c_korn> http://pastebin.com/d6dcba8ee
<c_korn> here in git: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/diff/poppler/PDFDoc.h?id=5491d16dfbd73f0256c62e49d02622dc3185012e
<c_korn> how should the line be changed correctly ?
<sistpoty> hm... I'm also getting a tired
<sistpoty> c_korn: it looks to me, as if the function puts the version into a string
<sistpoty> c_korn: and I hope that it was a double in the form of "major.minor"
<sistpoty> c_korn: so the fix would be snprintf(ctx,16*sizeof(char),"%d.%d",THIS->doc->getPDFMajorVersion(), THIS->doc-getPDFMinorVersion());
<quentusrex> what's a good key word for something that downloads tons of files ???
<quentusrex> heavy? all? complete? thick?
<sistpoty> ban?
<c_korn> sistpoty: done. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gambas2/+bug/432792/comments/2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432792 in gambas2 "FTBFS: invalid conversion from const char* to char*" [Undecided,New]
<c_korn> should I have opened another bug about the API change ?
<sistpoty> c_korn: I don't think so, I guess that change was blessed already
<sistpoty> c_korn: /me looks and test-builds again
<c_korn> ok, just leave a comment in the bug report. and if everything is fine I will forward this patch to Debian
<c_korn> I really have to sleep now
<c_korn> sistpoty: thank you very much for your help.
<sistpoty> c_korn: thank you for fixing another FTBFS ;)
<c_korn> I hope I will be able to fix those bugs on my own in the future
<c_korn> sistpoty: heh, np. bye.
<sistpoty> cya
 * sistpoty goes to bed, gn8 everonye
<sistpoty> everyone evene
<quentusrex> Anyone know if this is a valid package name: freeswitch-sounds-music-1.0.8 ???
<jmarsden> quentusrex: I'm not an expert, but package *names* do not usually have the -1.0.8 version number on the end.  The name (the first word of the first line of debian/changelog) would be freeswitch-sounds-music.  The 1.0.8 would inside () as part of the second word of that first line of debian/changelog ... (1.0.8-1)  or whatever is appropriate.  Packages with a number as part of the actual package name usually mean the pa
<jmarsden> ckage is a library and the number is the SONAME version.
<quentusrex> jmarsden: the numbers at the end are the version
<quentusrex> but having -'s in the name is ok?
<quentusrex> what's the best method to just copy files to a directory from within a package?
<quentusrex> I'm aware of the *.install files
<quentusrex> I need to copy a file that is currently in ./sounds/ into /opt/freeswitch/sounds/en/us/
<quentusrex> is there a package automagic way to get it to use the install file to copy it there?
<jaguar_> Hello....
<jaguar_> Hoooi....Anybody there.....
<fabrice_sp> Hi jaguar_
<fabrice_sp> looking for help on packaging?
<mrooney> If I want to make a python package PPA for Intrepid -> Karmic, do I build for intrepid and copy the package forward on LP?
<mrooney> I assume I don't need to change the target in the changelog and upload three times?
<fabrice_sp> mrooney, I always upload a new package, with karmic reference in changelog
<mrooney> fabrice_sp: ah okay, you would do three different uploads, changing the reference each time?
<fabrice_sp> mrooney, that's what I do, because I tried to copy one package some time ago, and it didn't worked. You could ask in #launchpad or try to copy it :-)
<jaguar_> Hooooooooi...........
<jaguar_> fabrice_sp: Hello... Fab
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: what do you think would be a good key word that would download all packages below it? rather than specify one of the packages that are required this virtual package would download them all: thick? fat? complete? heavy?
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, it's too early for me to be reative :-)
<fabrice_sp> creative
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: :)
<quentusrex> maybe you can help with this question. I have a data package... it's one job is to copy a set of files from the package to a destination directory.
<quentusrex> what's the most proper way to do this? *.install files?
<quentusrex> or a 'cp ./files/* /etc/freeswitch/sounds/ '
<quentusrex> in the debian/rules ?
<fabrice_sp> .install files
<fabrice_sp> it's clearner
<fabrice_sp> cleaner
<quentusrex> do you have an example of how to set that up? I know I should put " etc/freeswitch/sounds/* " in the file
<quentusrex> but where should I put the files?
<fabrice_sp> you install everything in a place, and set up the .install files
<fabrice_sp> dvdstyler, IIRC
<quentusrex> do you have an example? everything I search for in google brings the wrong results...
<fabrice_sp> IIRC I did it for dvdstyler
<fabrice_sp> or you can look fter a -data package
<fabrice_sp> in packages.ubuntu.com, for example
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I must be tired... I can't find a link to the source files to see the *.install files...
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/dvdstyler/1.7.3-0ubuntu3/+files/dvdstyler_1.7.3-0ubuntu3.dsc
<fabrice_sp> use dget with that url
<quentusrex> and to extract it?
<Laney> dget -x
<Laney> or dpkg-source -x
<fabrice_sp> dpkg-source -x or use directly apt-get source dvdstyler
<fabrice_sp> too late :-)
 * Laney uses pull-lp-source
<jaguar_> fabrice_sp: Hello...
<fabrice_sp> hello jaguar_
<jaguar_> Can i ask you something...?
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I don't see any *.install files...
<jaguar_> fabrice_sp: I'm new to IRC...
<fabrice_sp> !ask | jaguar_
<ubottu> jaguar_: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<jaguar_> ubottu: OK SIR...
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about OK SIR...
<jaguar_> I' not bad in 'C' and need to contribute to linux. How can i do that...?
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, you're right. quadrispor changed from .install to .files
<fabrice_sp> you can look at 11.7.2 version that stil uses .install files
<fabrice_sp> jaguar_, you can look at the topic
<fabrice_sp> for example, http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<jaguar_> fabrice_sp: yes i'm going to the page. tnx.
<fabrice_sp> jaguar_, yw :-)
<wgrant> (that page will mark superseded versions in a few minutes)
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: where are the actual files that are to be installed in usr/share/*
<quentusrex> ?
<fabrice_sp> thanks wgrant !
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, install in debian/tmp
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I still don't see where to put the files that will be installed into usr/share/*
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, you call the 'make install'  to install everything in debian/tmp, and after, you split the files between the pacakge with .install files
<fabrice_sp> or like quadrispro has done with dvdstyler: you install everything in the normal package directory, and exctract the /usr/share files from there with a .install file
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I am still confused. this sucks... I thought there was a: you place the files here: debian/usr/share/*, then put usr/share/* in the *.install file
<fabrice_sp> you can install debian/<package name>/usr/share, with <package name> = name of the 'principal' package
<fabrice_sp> and then put <package name>/usr/share in .install file
<quentusrex> so anything I put in debian/freeswitch/etc/freeswitch/sounds/* will be installed into /etc/freeswitch/sounds/* if I put: etc/freeswitch/sounds/* into freeswitch.install ?
<quentusrex> wow... that was long...
<jaguar_> fabrice_sp: I can see a lot of packages in that page... What should I do now...?
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, in that case, you don't need a .install file
<fabrice_sp> jaguar_, look at the compilation error, and see if you can fix it
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: what would I need then?
<quentusrex> I have files that just need to be copied and pasted into a folder, that's it... it's a data package.
<jaguar_> fabrice_sp: Yes Sir.
<wgrant> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html <- Styling sucks, but it now identifies superseded versions.
<jaguar_> fabrice_sp: I'm starting with 'gamine'....tnx
<wgrant> jaguar_: 'gamin' is a bad choice. The version for which the build failed is superseded, so it might already be fixed.
<jaguar_> wgrant: can you suggest one....?
<wgrant> jaguar_: I'm afraid not. I need to run to dinner.
<jaguar_> wgrant: k
<AnAnt> james_w: would you review devscripts ?
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, if you want to spli the /use/share directory to freeswitch-data, you should create a freeswitch-data.install
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I don't want to split it
<fabrice_sp> my English sucks this morning :-/
<fabrice_sp> I thought you wanted to create a -data package
<quentusrex> I have one package, but I'm trying to split it into application, and sound files
<fabrice_sp> in different packages, then?
<quentusrex> so I don't have to upload the sound files each time
<quentusrex> yes
<quentusrex> so the data package should just copy the files into place.
<fabrice_sp> and this files are installed by the make install command?
<quentusrex> they are currently
<quentusrex> but I'm trying to pull them out to be installed and downloaded/uploaded separately.
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, so you just need to add a freeswitch-data.install file, with the files/directory you want to move there
<fabrice_sp> buildd don't have access to Internet, so you won't be able to download files when building the package
<fabrice_sp> actually, it would easier if you had some 'rules' or place to look at
 * fabrice_sp needs more coffee this morning
* wgrant changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Karmic Feature Freeze is in effect now! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<debfx> siretart: what do you think about syncing keepassx 0.4.1 to ubuntu? does it need a FFe? bug #431798
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431798 in keepassx "Please sync keepassx 0.4.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431798
<directhex> has anyone who isn't me had problems connecting to msn lately? pidgin or epiphany, makes no difference
<directhex> empathy
<directhex> bah
<Laney> how lately?
<Laney> I connected about 8.30 this morning
<pochu> I'm connected right now using emesene
<pochu> no problems recently
<directhex> hm. i changed my password, now it seems happier
<Laney> gwibber pulls in gnome-mount?!
<quentusrex> What's the difference between architecture: 'any' and 'all'
<ScottK> quentusrex: If a package is arch all, then it can be run on all architectures.  We build these in i386, but then are used on all of our architectures.  Arch any, can be built for any architecture, but needs to be compiled for each architecture it will run on.
<jmarsden> quentusrex: See http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Architecture
<ripps> Does anybody here know how to change my gpg key to be passwordless so that I can automatically sign and upload packages automatically using fta's ppa-bot without having to give my gpg password everytime it runs.
<Laney> you should use a separate key
<ripps> Laney: what do you mean?
<Laney> it's a bad idea to have your primary key unprotected
<Laney> just make a new one which is solely for this ppa
<ripps> hmmm..... I suppose that's an option. The ppa is a team ppa, is it possible to give a team a gpg key?
<Laney> no
<Laney> that is also a bad idea if one member gets the key compromised
<ripps> it's kindof inconvient, because right now, I can only create, sign, and upload packages from this computer. Your saying I can't create a shared key so other people can upload to ppa besides me?
<Laney> no, you can have a team PPA. Each member of the team has their own key.
<ripps> Oh, I think I get it.
<ripps> But I will have to register this new key with my account on launchpad
<Laney> sure
<ripps> Okay, when I goto seahorse and try to create a new pgp key, it gives me an error when I try to create a key without a password
<ripps> How do subkeys work? is it possible to create a passwordless subkey?
<funkyHat> On the FTBFS page, what do the slightly faded-looking colours mean?
<funkyHat> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<c_korn> funkyHat: what do you mean ?
<funkyHat> c_korn: see some of the red boxes are not as red as the others?
<c_korn> funkyHat: currently not. can you give an example ?
<funkyHat> The top 3 (abiword, asio, beecrypt) are, the next 2 aren't, cin is, clutter isn't, etc.
<funkyHat> Oh, superseded
<c_korn> don't know what you mean
<c_korn> but glad you found out :)
<wgrant> funkyHat: You might notice the '(superseded)' after the version number. Style improvement suggestions welcome.
<jmarsden> ripps: You should be able to use an agent to remember your GPG passphrase so you only enter it once per session.  This is way more secure than trying to create and use passphrase-less keys.  man gpg-agent for more info
<funkyHat> wgrant: oh, yeah, I didn't notice that before :)
<funkyHat> wgrant: I guess <span style="float: right">(superseded)</span> would make that clearer
<funkyHat> As they'd all line up, and I'd be less likely to just skim that bit thinking it's part of the version
<funkyHat> That might be helpful for other people. I know what it means now anyway:)
<lifeless> james_w: how do I tell package imports that there is an original bzr branch to use for <package foo>
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-20
<geser> wgrant: in case you missed it in #ubuntuwire: what about moving the superseded packages into their own tables at the end of the page?
<ScottK> Personally I think it'd be fine to just remove them.
<wgrant> geser: Hm, I did somehow miss that. That sounds like a good idea.
<wgrant> geser, ScottK: How's that?
<ScottK> wgrant: Well once the package has been superceded in the archive compared to the rebuild copy, the results of the rebuild are pretty irrelevant.  If it stiill FTBFS in the real archive, we have another page for that.
<wgrant> ScottK: I still think it's a good idea to show them, but will remove them if there are enough votes.
<lifeless> Hobbsee: ping
<zooko> Good evening, folks!  (UTC-6)
<zooko> Karmic is going to rock!
<ScottK> wgrant: Moving to the bottom is fine with me (or clearly distiguishing most any way).  Thanks for putting the list together, it's very helpful.
<wgrant> ScottK: Thank geser for the original code. This is just a rather hacked up version of that.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> geser: Thanks for making it possible.
<Hobbsee> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> Hobbsee: nvm :)
<lifeless> Hobbsee: was going to get you to wave your pointy stick at the buildds
<Hobbsee> lifeless: oh, fair enough
<alkisg> How is it decided that some Debian packages are left out of Ubuntu? E.g. http://packages.debian.org/sid/gzip-win32 ?
<alkisg> Also, if I upload this package to my ppa, will I be able to compile another package (win32-loader) that depends on gzip-win32?
<wgrant> alkisg: In this case it's probably because MinGW32 is in universe. gzip is in main, so can't build-depend on it.
<wgrant> But the changelog will know for sure.
<wgrant> Indeed, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gzip/+changelog
<wgrant> And yes, if you remove the removal in your PPA you will be able to build-depend on it.
<alkisg> wgrant: thanks, but I didn't quite understand this. Mings32 is in universe, right? Why can't gzip-win32 also be in universe? (and gzip, a seperate package, in main)?
<wgrant> alkisg: The gzip-win32 binary is built from the gzip source package
<alkisg> Ah... so it's policy reasons, to get it in main
<wgrant> alkisg: Sources in universe cannot build binaries in main, and sources in main cannot depend on binaries in universe.
<wgrant> Right.
<alkisg> Got it. I didn't understand that it was the same source.
<wgrant> Without gzip in main, things would be a little broken.
<alkisg> wgrant, so, if I upload a modified gzip in my ppa, I'll be able to build win32-loader that depends on this, right?
<wgrant> alkisg: Correct.
<alkisg> Thank you very much :)
<wgrant> np
<alkisg> Is keyserver.ubuntu.com down?
<quentusrex> Anyone know how to get a package to run a set of commands when the binary is installed?
<quentusrex> build isn't it...
<geser> you mean during package building or installing the the final deb?
<quentusrex> installing the final deb
<geser> {pre,postinst}
<geser> depending on what needs to be done
<quentusrex> I need to transcode some files..
<quentusrex> I only distribute the high quality sounds, and it needs to transcode the lower quality ones locally....
<geser> why that?
<quentusrex> this way you only download 75MB of sounds
<quentusrex> rather than 350MB
<geser> why not do it during package build and build a binary with the high quality ones and one binary with the low quality ones?
<quentusrex> I do that
<quentusrex> so if you really want to download them, rather than locally transcode, that is possible
<quentusrex> but the default dependancy package will transcode them on your box.
<geser> what's the benefit of it instead of simply using the high quality ones?
<quentusrex> transcoding on the fly is very cpu intensive...
<eboyjr> Hello. gdesklets depends on python2.5, but it doesn't install with it, producing errors.
<eboyjr> So maybe someone should fix that
<RainCT> eboyjr: Seems to work fine with Python 2.6 on Karmic
<eboyjr> Hrm. Okay. On Jaunty, in the source it has #!/usr/bin/python2.5 and I had to install it to make it work. Other people had the same problem. I'm glad it works in Karmic tho
<RainCT> eboyjr: feel free to file a bug report (but I wouldn't put to much hope in getting it fixed in Jaunty)
<eboyjr> RainCT: Alright I might if I have time. It's not something that can be quickly changed?
<RainCT> eboyjr: probably yes, but changing stuff in stable releases requires a bit of extra paperwork (and approval from the Stable Release Updates team), and given that this problem is easy to workaround (installing python2.5) people will likely put their time into more important stuff
<eboyjr> Alright that makes sense. I won't bother since there are HOWTOs. Karmic is coming up so early too. Time's flyin' Thanks RainCT
<RainCT> no problem
<zooko> Howdy RainCT.
<fraser_m> For fixing a bug that's been reported in LP, what gets put in the changelog?
<Laney> (LP: #xxxx)
<fraser_m> Thanks.
<hanska> hello people
<hanska> do you know whether Michael Vogt is on IRC?
<sebner> hanska: huhu, his username is mvo
<hanska> hey sebner :)
<sebner> hanska: but it's sunday. try again tomorrow ^^
<hanska> sebner: sorry, my ADSL went down :) -- ok, will try tomorrow, just need to talk to him about gdebi ;)
<dtchen> ajmitch: when you have time, please use "ubuntu-bug alsa-base" for your new laptop if you haven't already
<Zhenech> hyperair, any idea how to tell geany to use a different default licence?
<ajmitch> dtchen: sure, just starting it up now - I had problems with ubuntu-bug not starting firefox last week
<dtchen> ajmitch: ok, thanks. i'm trying to break up the commits to sound/pci/hda/patch_* into logical, digestable bits so that Tim or Andy doesn't punch me (i.e., need the BugLink)
<dtchen> jdstrand: updated my branch for your audio issue; please confirm whether it fixes your symptom
<ajmitch> dtchen: ok, I'm just filing it now
<ajmitch> dtchen: bug 433683 - tell me if you need anything else
<dtchen> ajmitch: if you want to do it manually, the only file(s) i really need is /proc/asound/card*/codec*
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433683 in alsa-driver "HP Pavilion dv7 2108 doesn't mute speakers & switch output to headphones when they are plugged in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433683
<dtchen> ok
<dtchen> ajmitch: yeah, your headphone jack is actually registered as a line-out (boo, IDT!), which we don't currently do any sort of sensing with
<dtchen> ajmitch: the last commit i made to the branch for jdstrand's bug is part one of the two required fixes for you; i'm committing yours in about ten minutes
<dtchen> ajmitch: (if you look at your Card0.Codecs.codec.0.txt, it's node 0x0f)
<ajmitch> dtchen: alright, I'll grab the branch you commit & try & build it
 * ajmitch just had to run off for a quick meeting 
<dtchen> ajmitch: pushed, should be available now
<dtchen> bah, it ended up in jdstrand's branch, but whatever
<ajmitch> do you have the URL for it?
<ajmitch> nevermind, I see a commit now
<dtchen> yeah, added a comment in the bug report, too
<dtchen> -> offline
<ajmitch> thanks, building now
<lifeless> requestsync hates me
<Laney> lifeless: please file/fix bugs if there are any
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-20
<smallfoot-> in synaptic, i can click to see screenshot of apps
<smallfoot-> but alwyas it cant find screenshot for no apps
<smallfoot-> why?
<ScottK> smallfoot-: Try #ubuntu+1 for Maverick help.
<jdong> any gcc wranglers in here?
<jdong> have this program that breaks when compiling in -O3
<persia> Better to ask the question you really want to ask, as the answer to that question is likely to be "no" :)
<jdong> but unbreaks at -O3 -fno-inline-functions
<ajmitch> don't run gentoo? :P
<jdong> and a disassembly seems to indicate the inlined functions aren't using the right registers
<jdong> this is on GCC 4.4 in Ubuntu
<jdong> gcc 4.3 in Debian doesn't have this bug
<ajmitch> you've tried it on other versions of gcc in ubuntu?
 * kj4ohh used gentoo for a while a number of years ago, he remembers having to take a small vacation when installing things like OpenOffice lol
<jdong> I haven't tried it on GCC 4.3 yet
<jdong> (in Ubuntu)
<persia> Might try that.  4.5 could also be useful, depending.
<ajmitch> 4.5 looks to be in maverick
<jdong> okay, I'll have to up a machine to maverick
<persia> In a recent FTBFS that might have been toolchain, doko asked for an extracted minimal test case, so I presume that's a sensible first step if you want to fix the compiler.
<persia> If you want to just compile the app, just change the flags to work around the bug.
<jdong> just wanted to see if the symptoms rang a bell to anyone
<ajmitch> I didn't think -O3 was default usually?
<jdong> if not, I'll keep investigating and hopefully find it's fixed, SRU-able, or I can write a meaningful bug report for it...
<jdong> and no, -O3 is not default; this is the code for a course I'm TA'ing
<ajmitch> aha
<persia> There's plenty of folk who have done tests that show that -O3 is only faster on certain revisions of Pentium 4 for i386.  Haven't seen comparisons for other arches.
<jdong> the reference platform is Debian, but kids playing on their own machines are using Ubuntu and finding that the code breaks in nonsensical ways.
<Bachstelze> hi, jdong :)
<Bachstelze> back to business, I see
<jdong> hey Bachstelze :)
<poolie> jdong: and you're pretty sure it's not a bug in the program being compiled?
<jdong> eh for some definition of business that involves not having sleep and being a student again, one last time.
<poolie> my experience is that's more common than gcc bugs, though of course it can happen
<jdong> poolie: oh I don't rule out that it's PEBKAC but it'd be pretty weird PEBKAC
<jdong> I'm exporting a copy of the tree and posting it...
<jdong> http://stuff.mit.edu/~jdong/pentominoes.tar.gz
<jdong> to see the bug, ./pentominoes -b '0,0 0,1 0,2 0,3' -p
<jdong> add -fno-inline-functions to CFLAGS_RELEASE in the makefile and run again to see correct output
<jdong> namely, adding the noinline attribute to board_set_square() fixes it
<jdong> I wrote this sample code for the students, and don't really think I did anything terribly PEBKAC
<jdong> (functions of interest are in pentominoes.c I should mention)
<maco> does that mean what i think it means?
<maco> 5-sided dominoes?
<jdong> maco: nah, 5-unit tetris pieces
<maco> oh
<jdong> maco: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentominoes
<jdong> maco: it's a variation of the pentomino tiling puzzle, where you must use all 12 pieces to fill a 8-by-8 board
<jdong> except in this variant, the board is toroid, so pieces wrap around the edges, like snake :)
<maco> O_o
<jdong> the solver that I provided them uses horribly-performing data structures and overly abstracted piece representations, and the students' task is to make it perform better :)
<jdong> namely, the board is a char[8][8] ;-)
<Bachstelze> FWIW, it's broken in gcc 4.4 on Maverick too
<jdong> I mean, looking over the code, between solve() and board_set_square()... I don't think I did anything that's not basic C
<jdong> in this case I'm prejudiced to blame the optimizer ;-)
<persia> If you did things in a way that most folk might find in need of code changes due to poor design, you may only have limited sympathy from the toolchain folk :)
<jdong> hahaha
<jdong> in this case one can argue it's not poor design but simplicity ;-)
<Bachstelze> bug 643168 is another proof that gnome is dumb
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 643168 in gnome-color-manager (Ubuntu) "gcm-prefs tries to install nonexistent shared-color-targets" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643168
<Bachstelze> g-c-m wants to install a package that only exists in github
<persia> For maverick, probably best to patch out that preference.  For natty, maybe package the missing bit?
<Bachstelze> probably
<Bachstelze> it's also in Lucid
<persia> Nothing safe to do for lucid at this point.
<persia> Patching it out is invasive enough to get rejected as an SRU, and new packages are never accepted.
 * Bachstelze nods
<persia> I suppose someone could package for natty and backport to lucid, but that's only going to help some users.
<ScottK> Yes, but that's probably the lowest risk solution.
<Bachstelze> someone has it on a PPA, he could also have filed a bug...
<persia> Bachstelze, Often it's best to presume that folk don't always know how, or have time.  Maybe you could use the PPA version to start a process for natty, and backports?
<persia> And collaborate with the PPA person to pool efforts and make sure it works well?
<Bachstelze> better get it pushed to Debian before I guess
<persia> That sounds like a good plan to achieve the get-it-into-natty step, indeed.
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> LP #640567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 640567 in swt-gtk (Ubuntu) "Candidate revision 3.5.1+versionbump-5ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/640567
<micahg> AnAnt:that's in main, you'll have to ask in -devel and it needs a release team ack
<AnAnt> ok
<persia> Why is it in main?  Doesn't seem to be in any tasks.
<micahg> !info swt-gtk
<ubottu> Package swt-gtk does not exist in lucid
<AnAnt> ?!
<AnAnt> it is in lucid
<persia> It's a source package.  The bot only looks for binary packages.
<AnAnt> !info src:swt-gtk
<ubottu> Package srcswt-gtk does not exist in lucid
<micahg>  swt-gtk | 3.5.1+versionbump-2ubuntu3 |      maverick | source
<micahg> persia: no idea :)
<micahg> no MIR that I can find
<persia> If I wasn't more interested in making "universe" go away entirely, I'd be tempted to go try to pull everything out of main.  As it is, my desire is rather to move everything in universe into main wholesale.
<AnAnt> persia: and what would become of MOTUs then ?
<micahg> Masters of the Unseeded :D
<persia> Indeed.
<superm1> but what would that actually accomplish?
<persia> Acronym doesn't change.  Activities don't really change.  Confusion about components goes away.
<micahg> yeah, mainly the component shuffling, also, when something is dropped from a seed, then MOTU automatically (more or less) would get to upload again, whereas now, it's a manual process, right persia?
<persia> superm1, The main issues are semantic: there are lots of folks who avoid "universe" because it's "unsupported", not being aware that there's plenty of software in universe that is supported, and plenty in main that isn't.
<persia> There's also a lot of workaround code to enable or disable universe for various things in various places which ends up being a crude hack, essentially, and some wide number of bugs because things got handled wrong.
<superm1> isn't that type of line more blurred to the general user with software center though?
<persia> In theory, kinda, except in execution, the use of "Supported" happens to be aligned with "main", and lots of folk still talk about stuff on the internet.
<persia> blurring that line in the tools was one of the steps that had to be accomplished to making it go away.
<persia> Back when "main" represented one flavour, the use of MIRs was helpful to decide what would and wouldn't ship in a context.  This got more confusing with two flavours, but the DE variation made overlap narrow.  These days, a critical MIR for one flavour can change behaviour in another in an undesireable way.
<AnAnt> there are unsupported packages on main ?
<persia> And the outdated concept of "main"/"universe" hides this to a certain degree, as many folk remember when it was useful.
<persia> AnAnt, Remember sl-modem, and how it got out of main, and why it went back in?
<AnAnt> so what's the role of main then ?
<persia> There's lots more stuff like that.
<micahg> persia: the only good thing about MIRs is the security review before being seeded
<AnAnt> persia: yeah, that's why I am confused now
<persia> "main" used to be the stuff Ubuntu supported, and then it was the stuff Canonical supported, and now it's kinda meaningless.
<persia> micahg, Then why not insist on security review *at seeding time*, rather than for something else?
<AnAnt> then why don't Ubuntu just do like Debian: main contrib & non-free
<micahg> well, it's still the stuff that Canonical is supposed to support, but whether or not it happens is anotehr story
<micahg> persia: I think it's a great idea :)
<persia> micahg, It's not even that.  Ask someone at Canonical.  There's plenty of stuff they support in universe, and plenty they don't support in main.
<persia> (for one or another value of "support", and depending on who you ask)
<persia> And it's not my idea: it's "Archive Reorganisation", as has been ongoing for the past couple years :)
<micahg> persia: I guess my only experience in this regard is with Seamonkey and they tell me I have to do the testing
<persia> AnAnt, I believe the current consensus is to have "main" "restricted-firmware", "restricted-software".
<AnAnt> persia: restricted-software = contrib + non-free ?
<persia> No.
<persia> restricted-software == multiverse
<persia> Well, and maybe some stuff from restricted, if there's any non-firmware there.
<AnAnt> aha, got the point
<AnAnt> well, that's a nice idea
<AnAnt> so where can I get a list of current package sets ?
<persia> LP API has them.
<persia> They are starting to get exposed in other places in LP, but slowly.
<AnAnt> persia: LP API is in /usr/share/pyshared/launchpadlib/ ?
<persia> https://help.launchpad.net/API : much of it is exposed by launchpadlib, but maybe you prefer Java, or maybe something was exposed that isn't seen, etc.
<lifeless> AnAnt: help.launchpad.net/API
<persia> Does anyone know why libunwind is built on such a narrow set of architectures?  Seems to build for some others, and some stuff seems to build-depend on it.
<\sh> persia: not again libunwind...I thought the only rdepends is the google perftools
<\sh> moins btw
<persia> \sh, Hey.  Might be: that's the FTBFS for which I saw it.  Still, only works on half our architectures, for reasons I don't understand.
<\sh> persia: if google perftools is in ftbfs state, try to rebuild it
<persia> Can't: no libunwind for armel/powerpc
<persia> Hrm, actually, maybe I just need to change [!i386] to [amd64 ia64 ppc64] ...
 * persia will try that later
<\sh> persia: nope..I think libunwind and google perftools are only buildable on i386 and amd64
<\sh> I think it's in the debian arch build file...what's the name of it again? ;)
<StevenK> Pas
<StevenK> P-a-s, rather
 * persia is more than happy to override P-a-s, but believes it not to be set in this case, as there was a failed powerpc build (and powerpc is built on Debian)
<persia> But, yeah, fixing google-perftools to have better build-depends means I don't need to understand why libunwind is annoying.
<\sh> I don't touch it anymore...the last debdiff with a buildfix came from fedora, and there was a discussion about -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE
<\sh> s/fedora/upstream/
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: I'll process u-d-t today, so you can sync it shortafter
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: thanks
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: I've already uploaded it, expect it to be in incoming in ~4 minutes
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: yes, i saw your mail
<sylvaing> hu
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you take a look @ bug 524341 ? is it ready for upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524341 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu Maverick) "Add amavisd-new-postfix package" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524341
<RainCT> didrocks: Hey. Have you got my mail?
<didrocks> RainCT: yes, I received it, I think that's something doable. Do you mind if I upload on Wednesday? Quite busy there and I think we will upload to new zg version
<RainCT> didrocks: Okay, cool.
<didrocks> RainCT: thanks ;)
<RainCT> didrocks: Do you prefer to take care of the packaging yourself? I could also push an update to Debian with any patches you'd like (experimental already has the latest release)
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: you uploaded u-d-t too early. i found an bug in sponsor-patch
<DktrKranz> d'oh
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: i pushed the fix
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: are you a DM, aren't you?
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: yes, i am
<DktrKranz> if you want to add yourself in uploaders, and DM-U-A field, could be fine
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: you should add the DM-U-A field
<bdrung_> (according to the wiki)
<DktrKranz> nice deal
<DktrKranz> doing
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: the question is: does murphy's law apply. if we release 0.103, a new bug will be found. if i wait some time to catch more bugs, no bug will be found.
<bdrung_> s/apply./apply?/
<Laney> if you wait indefinitely then there will be no bugs at all
<Laney> and no users, ...
<DktrKranz> that reminds me of dak package
<bdrung_> Laney: if i wait indefinitely, all user will complain about bugs ;)
<bdrung_> let's hope that release early, release often is the right approach
<Laney> There's always bugs. Not all bugs are serious enough to deserve a new release.
<DktrKranz> murphy's law related to debian archive: a new bug happens as soon as process-upload just scanned your package
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: btw, DM-U-A field set, and you're on Uploaders now
<DktrKranz> also, debian #594424 could be worth fixing
<ubottu> Debian bug 594424 in ubuntu-dev-tools "brittle implementation of ubuntutools.misc.host_architecture()" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/594424
<didrocks> RainCT: I'll take care of it, no worry. We have to find a worflow for using the same branches btw.
<didrocks> RainCT: just like I'm in super-busy mode until hard freeze ;)
<Laney> final freeze isn't hard? :-o
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: do you have time to fix that?
<DktrKranz> yes
<DktrKranz> doing tests on real hardware now
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: pushed
<bdrung_> geser: import-bug-from-debian doesn't have a man page
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: committed
<DktrKranz> usr/bin/sponsor-patch
<DktrKranz> neither
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: i know
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: maybe we should ad both man pages before uploading 0.103
<DktrKranz> ack
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: opinions on debian #584556 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 584556 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Assumes graphical browser" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/584556
<DktrKranz> I don't really imagine how to handle that
<Laney> ask the user to visit the URL themselves
<Laney> instead of opening their browser
<bdrung_> that would be a solution
<DktrKranz> a functional workaround, at minimum
<Laney> most OAuth programs have a separate step for launching the browser
<DktrKranz> another idea could be to wait, say, 5 seconds before launching the browser
<Laney> that's a pretty grim solution
<Laney> i'd rather require another confirmation than that
<DktrKranz> mmh, yeah
<DktrKranz> a second "press enter to actually launch the browser" could go
<Laney> really I'd just give the url
<Laney> but maybe I'm old skool
 * DktrKranz is used to copy&paste too
<Laney> reasonable terminals will make it clickable
<DktrKranz> mmmh, just giving the URL seems not enough, as I believe it does additional tasks after browser is launched, and Enter is pressed
<Laney> not sure
<Laney> seems that comes from lplib anyway
<DktrKranz> yeah
<DktrKranz> just seen that
<Laney> reassign ;)
<DktrKranz> ok, let's also ping python-launchpadlib maintainer... DktrKranz: your turn :P
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: i have opened bug #643691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 643691 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "FFe: Please sync ubuntu-dev-tools 0.103 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643691
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: according to ScottK the new scripts should be tested by other than the script write. can you test wrap-and-sort and sponsor-patch?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: I'll happily ack sponsor-patch
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: what do you meant with ack in this context?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: "should be tested by [someone] other than the script write[r]"
<bdrung_> k
<aBaldrich> Hi! I'm a C programmer who's been using ubuntu for over a year. I have a launchpad account for bug reports, but I'd like to contribute more. How do I start?
<Bachstelze> aBaldrich: there's not much C in Ubuntu proper, but you can always contribute upstream
<kklimonda> !contribute | aBaldrich
<ubottu> aBaldrich: To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<aBaldrich> thanks :)
<bdrung_> Bachstelze: there are many C apps in Ubuntu.
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: there is more work: bug #643691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 643691 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "FFe: Please sync ubuntu-dev-tools 0.103 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643691
<AnAnt> bdrung_: thanks
<bdrung_> AnAnt: for what?
<AnAnt> bdrung_: swt-gtk
<bdrung_> AnAnt: you're welcome
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: do you have time for more work on u-d-t?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: just about to start a loco team meeting, but otherwise I do have, yes
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: the package lacks two man pages and i don't like writing those...
<tumbleweed> hah!
<tumbleweed> I'll have a look later
<lucidfox> YokoZar, here?
<ScottK> lucidfox: Nice blog post.
<lucidfox> ScottK> Thanks! Been brewing in my head for a while :)
<ari-tczew> which blog?
<lucidfox> I've also been thinking of writing a post encouraging Ayatana to be to GNOME what Ubuntu is to Debian, but I don't think that sugestion would meet much success
<lucidfox> ari-tczew>my latest Planet Ubuntu post, http://lucidfox.org/posts/view/623
<ScottK> lucidfox: I think it gets caught up in corporate politics.  As I dimly understand it, "Upstream Gnome" decision making is dominated by Red Hat and so the chances of a lot of cooperation are low.
<lucidfox> Well, last time a project was perceived as stagnating and suffering from lack of a vision, it resulted in the birth of a new project called... Ubuntu
<kklimonda> lucas: the question is whether upstream GNOME (lead mostly by RH) is going to be interested in ayatana bits.
<kklimonda> seriously
<kklimonda> i can nevee catch her :D
<kklimonda> time to enable part messages
<Nafallo> kklimonda: not that I think that would be the audience... as little as ubuntu is targetting DDs
<kklimonda> Nafallo: what do you mean?
<Nafallo> kklimonda: oh. I completely misread the nick you where targetting and hence the reply was aimed for a completely different discussion. sorry :-)
<kklimonda> ah, now it makes more sense :)
<Nafallo> heh
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: hi. what about patch for g-s-d? is it going to be in maverick as upstream, or do we need to add patch manually?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: it got applied by the upstream already
<bdmurray> Do I need to do anything process wise to upload the fix for bug 643896?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 643896 in bughugger (Ubuntu Maverick) "bughugger crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643896
<ari-tczew> bdmurray: this is universe. if you have tested patch, you can push it
<ari-tczew> highvoltage: ping
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-21
<asantoni_> Hi guys, a tester for Mixxx found another semi-bad-ish bug in Ubuntu 10.10 - https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/642606
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 642606 in Mixxx "Mixxx 1.8.0 > background color in library " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<asantoni_> The background color in our library isn't being styled properly by the Qt 4.7 RC that's in 10.10. (It works fine in Qt 4.4/4.5/4.6.)
<asantoni_> We're also about 1 or 2 days away from dropping a Mixxx 1.8.0 final tarball which contains more bugfixes compared to the 1.8.0 RC that's in Universe right now.
<asantoni_> What's the best course of action here?
<asantoni_> TheMuso: I might call your attention to this too
<TheMuso> asantoni_: Ok, getting a new upstream release in this late may be difficult, but its up to the release team to make that decision, given all the necessary information presented.
<asantoni_> TheMuso: How can I get in touch with the Release Team?
<TheMuso> asantoni_: Easiest way is to file a bug requesting a feature freeze exception, as documented on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess.
<asantoni_> TheMuso: Excellent, thank you very much
<TheMuso> np
<ScottK> asantoni_: Feel free to ping me once you have the bug filed to review it (I'm on the release team).
<asantoni_> thanks ScottK
<asantoni_> hey guys, we've traced this Mixxx-ugly-white-colours bug down in the Qt bug tracker, and apparently the fix is targeted for Qt 4.7.1 :S
<asantoni_> see: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-13125
<asantoni_> and a possible work-around that we're going to play with: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-13471
<persia> asantoni_, I think we'll need the workaround for maverick, as we're exceedingly unlikely to get an updated Qt.
<Bachstelze> I don't think Qt has even been patched upstream yet
<Bachstelze> doesn't look like it, at least
<asantoni_> yeah, bummer :S
<asantoni_> I posted a menacing screenshot in the Qt bug tracker to try to illustrate how ugly the bug is for us
<ScottK> We'll be lucky to get 4.7.0 final in before release.
<lucidfox> persia> They closed the Opinion status bug as Won't Fix.
<lucidfox> Ah the irony.
<persia> Actually, I appreciated that.  Setting it to "Opinion" would have been frustrating :)
<persia> I'll admit though that I'm surprised you didn't reference it in your recent post that included a discussion of "Opinion"
<persia> I'd still like to hear some rationale for the decision: none of the points I raised seem to have been addressed.
<ajmitch> which bug # was this?
<persia> 642637
<ajmitch> aha
<persia> If folks comment, please restrict yourself to reasoned argument: I'd hate to see that bug get noisy.
<ajmitch> the only comment I'd have about it was given in the first reply to you, that it was already intended as a final state
<ajmitch> to be less harsh wording than "won't fix", but effectively the same
<persia> Indeed.  I really didn't expect it to get anything other than Won'tFix, and only submitted the patch because it was dead-easy, and someone suggested it would get faster consideration that way.
<persia> It's the "effectively the same" bit that bothers me, as noted in comment #3.
<ajmitch> right, I'm trying to find where I read the justifications for this originally
<persia> deryk wrote it up in a blog posting.
<lucidfox> persia> Well, the "Opinion" status wasn't really the point of my recent post, it was just a minor side-rant :)
<persia> heh.
 * lucidfox pokes YokoZar again
<YokoZar> hi
<lucidfox> There is a patch applied to wine1.2 in the vivnet repository that stubs a kernel32 function without which the WoW Cataclysm and 4.0.1 launchers crash
<lucidfox> think we could apply it to the Ubuntu version?
<YokoZar> I'm investigating the crash now
<lucidfox> And I don't mean the crash of WoW itself with the Ubuntu kernel - that's a different bug
<YokoZar> oh
<YokoZar> you mean the launcher thingy
<ajmitch> lucidfox: is that kernel issue fixed?
<YokoZar> ajmitch: it is upstream, I'm not sure if it's fixed in Ubuntu because we also have the ptrace changes causing a crash at the same point
 * ajmitch hasn't tried wow on maverick yet
<lucidfox> Last I checked (that was 2.6.35.21, IIRC), it was still occurring with all the Ubuntu kernels, but not with the mainline ones
<YokoZar> ajmitch: I'm working on a wrapper for Wine to give it cap_sys_ptrace as a workaround
<lucidfox> I've been running WoW with mainline kernels ever since I installed Maverick
<YokoZar> lucidfox: Ubuntu kernels also enable ptrace protection that mainline doesn't iirc
<ajmitch> no WoW means that maverick should be delayed, right?
<lucidfox> LOL
<YokoZar> there are more WoW users on Ubuntu than music store buyers I'm pretty sure
<ajmitch> YokoZar: you're probably quite right
 * YokoZar stews over not having his sponsorship accepted
 * ajmitch happens to have the background downloader running at the moment :)
<ajmitch> YokoZar: don't worry, you're not alone, though you've done a lot more than many of us have :)
<YokoZar> lucidfox: is that patch in wine1.3?
<lucidfox> moment
<StevenK> ajmitch: Is it still -Part-2?
<persia> YokoZar, Don't let that stop you from coming to UDS.
<ajmitch> StevenK: sure, I'monly about 400MB into it too
<ajmitch> persia: as you can probably imagine, flights cost a bit from this part of the world :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: I've got both -Stage-{1,2}, if there was a -Stage-3, I was going to fire it off
<lucidfox> YokoZar> Here's the patch for the Cataclysm/4.0.1 launcher: http://paste.ubuntu.com/497460/
<persia> ajmitch, For you, sure, for YokoZar, I thought it was less problematic.  When we have UDS in NZ, I expect you there regardless of whether you get sponsored :p
<YokoZar> persia: it's a matter of cash.  I just decided to book my flight for wineconf and I'm not sure if I can afford both
<ajmitch> persia: somehow I doubt it'll be anywhere that I can get to in less than 12 hours travel time anytime soon :)
<persia> But doctormo is organising some lodging that costs something like 15-30% of the official rate.
<lucidfox> YokoZar> It's also applied in Wine 1.3.3
<persia> YokoZar, Understood.  I'll wish you luck planning, and hope to see you.
<YokoZar> lucidfox: ok that makes me much ahppier about backporting it
<lucidfox> Where do you people get money for all these flights :(
 * StevenK has a job
<lucidfox> Well, it was a rhetorical question :p
<ajmitch> lucidfox: we don't, that's why we don't attend :P
 * YokoZar thinks StevenK saw "WoW" in chat and instantly had his attention
<lucidfox> it just... sounds like a waste to me, personally...
<StevenK> Hush
<YokoZar> UDS in person is way more productive than UDS remotely
<ajmitch> lucidfox: depends on how much you really need to be there to push some ideas through & get some support & hopefully interested people
<lucidfox> I'm not prepared to blow such large sums just for the privilege of meeting with the Ubuntu community
<YokoZar> persia: I have an aunt who lives about an hour away from the conference too
<ajmitch> ah, good to see some 'feedback' on the post-release apps process on planet ubuntu/omgubuntu :)
<lucidfox> Well, given that I'm basically Ubuntu's grumpy bear, I doubt anything I say would change anything about how Ubuntu development works, in the slightest
<persia> YokoZar, Then it's just flights.  Good luck with your budgeting.
<persia> lucidfox, Don't underestimate yourself.
<ajmitch> lucidfox: you're hardly grumpy
<StevenK> lucidfox: Then ask for sponsorship, then you don't have to?
<StevenK> lucidfox: Or, don't go and grumble about it :-)
<lucidfox> I do too little to deserve sponsorship, really
<persia> You could always contract with some group to manage their software in Ubuntu, for small regular monies + large travel budget :)
 * StevenK hasn't done anything for Ubuntu for the entire cycle and is still going to UDS.
 * persia knows a couple people who do that and regularly get to UDS
<ajmitch> persia: what would be nice is to have some sort of marketplace for that, but that's a *whole* lot of trouble right there :)
<persia> StevenK, Yes, but we want you there so we can complain at you about the tools we use :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: but you're spethial :P
<lucidfox> Well, I don't know
<persia> ajmitch, Why trouble?
<ajmitch> I don't know how you're still remotely sane after hacking on soyuz
<lucidfox> on one hand, I don't care enough about UDS to blow my own money on such expensive trips
<lucidfox> on the other hand, I still can't help but feel sad
<StevenK> ajmitch: I'm not?
<ajmitch> persia: the usual trust issues, trying to setup payments, etc
<ajmitch> StevenK: true
<persia> ajmitch, Oh, I guess.  I thought you just meant a place for folks to post RFQs.  Actually managing everything is trouble indeed.
<wgrant> ajmitch: He can't still be sane.
<wgrant> It's been several months now.
<ajmitch> wgrant: we know that you're long beyond hope :)
 * StevenK even has a special jacket for wgrant to wear.
<ajmitch> persia: just a vague idea that I had, no reason why it'd have to be done that way I guess :)
<StevenK> It has long arms for extra warmth ...
<persia> ...and grommets for improved security
<ajmitch> you wouldn't want it to fall off somehow
<wgrant> Hey, I am recovering my sanity after not hacking Soyuz too much lately.
 * StevenK deals wgrant a penalty card for 'Lying'
<persia> ajmitch, Nearly anything would be better than now, when it's mostly just random bits in the wider bespoke software/free software contracting realm.
<persia> wgrant, Hacking Malone does not give you a break from the sanity point loss inherent in hacking Soyuz
<wgrant> Heh.
<StevenK> Doing uni work also has an inherent sanity point loss
<StevenK> Which changes, depending on which unit you're doing work on at the time
<ajmitch> persia: it could be a useful addition in terms of having some non-canonical involvement
<ajmitch> wgrant: so when will blueprints die?
<persia> ajmitch, I'd argue it would be useful addition in terms of increasing the visibility of that involvement.  I'm not sure the actual numbers would change that much.
<ajmitch> persia: it could provide additional motivation for some people
<persia> Sure.  I think it would also encourage folk who don't now to do things like ask for a time-spent-on-distro-maintenance rider on their sysadmin contracts or additional-cost-for-continued-distro-support for bespoke development contracts, etc.
<ajmitch> I know of only a few people who've done some one-off projects, I think that having a available pool of willing developers can be useful in terms of companies wanting to offer some ubuntu support
<persia> Indeed.  Needs a website, etc.  Also probably needs approval from the trademark team.
<ajmitch> might be worth writing up some ideas at least
<persia> I don't think we're allowed to sell "Ubuntu", but I do believe we're allowed to sell certain Ubuntu-related services.
<ajmitch> just hang it off the ubuntuwire website :)
<persia> There are several cases where I'd have found it useful to redirect certain people to such a resource to find someone to do stuff.
<persia> Please don't conflate that with ubuntuwire.  Ubuntuwire doesn't have many sponsors (and is sadly in need of a fundraiser drive), but some of them might not be happy hosting such a thing, as they are otherwise commercially active with Ubuntu.
<ajmitch> I know, it was just a joke :P
 * persia needs to find some repo from which one can apt-get install humour
<ajmitch> IRC doesn't transmit it very well
<micahg> wgrant: is ubuntuwire high bandwidth?
<ajmitch> we do have the resources to host REVU no another ubuntuwire machine instead of the sparc host, but it just takes time to setup & none of us have sat down & done it
<wgrant> micahg: Not really, no.
<wgrant> We must move REVU at some point.
<wgrant> Since poor sparc is a little unloved.
<micahg> wgrant: where is it currently hosted?
<ajmitch> wgrant: you're probably more familar than I am with setting up a new kvm guest, I could probably look at migrating the rest as I find time
<borealis> Hello again! The qtjambi team has been down in the cellar since last time I was here and remade the build system so that it's now possible to build qtjambi against system Qt. We most dearly want to add qtjambi as an official package in the ubuntu repos. How do we proceed? Have a look at http://qtjambi.sf.net for details.
<micahg> borealis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<borealis> Thanks, micahg, that seems to be the right place to start.
<borealis> Concerning qtjambi, do we have to go through the whole application process, or is it possible for us to pick up on the work that was done previously? http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=jambi&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<micahg> borealis: sorry, you just need to update
<borealis> Since last time qtjambi was represented in Ubuntu, there is a totally new team in place due to the fact that the Trolls left development.
<micahg> borealis: but you'll need an FFe
<micahg> !ffe | borealis
<ubottu> borealis: Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process.
<highvoltage> would it be unreasonable of me to blog that it's better to work with motu to get your packages in universe rather than use the new app-review stuff?
<highvoltage> the way I see it, in universe you at least have the option of stable release updates, and your packages will at least be able to get into the archives and back into debian
<highvoltage> as where with the app store stuff, when the app is somewhere in /opt it will never be able to make it into the archives anyway
<persia> highvoltage, I think it's worth wider discussion first.  At UDS there were some various threads of conversation that suggested it might make sense to have the app-review program be an input system into the following release.
<persia> So one would create an app, and it would be reviewed, and it would be pushed to natty and maverick-extras, as an example.
<persia> And one would be told to continue working with the Ubuntu Developers to keep it in shape.
<persia> Mind you, I've not been following the program closely: these plans may have changed, but if they haven't, I'm not sure it's better one way or the other.
<highvoltage> persia: are there any benefits to using the app-review program over using revu/universe?
<persia> A dedicated council of people responsible for making sure progress happens?
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: revu is badly backlogged? (plus you can get into the current stable release)
<persia> Oh, and one gets a free-pass-automatic-backport for install on end-user systems.
<persia> So, if REVU worked well, I don't think we'd need this.
<tumbleweed> also, if packages that came in via REVU didn't die of bitrot
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: maybe some things on http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/ubuntu-application-review-process-announced-restrictive-rules-galore/ are wrong or misguided then
<persia> Also, if a couple annoying (but exceedingly hard) bugs were fixed, we'd be using backports for this.
<persia> tumbleweed, Not all die of bitrot.  Lots gets through REVU, just nothing like the volume submitted.
<tumbleweed> persia: I mean once they are in, many rot
<persia> highvoltage, I believe that review to be fairly misguided.  I'm not sure it's technically wrong, so much as from the wrong viewpoint.
<tumbleweed> (not that Debian doesn't have that happen too)
<persia> tumbleweed, Oh, you mean once they get into the archives?  Depends on the motivation.  I think we see less of that now that we're not telling people to learn to help by packaging something.
<persia> But, obviously, we could do some signficant work in documenting how to care for packages, and not closely documenting how to create packages (pointing folks at Debian or the ubuntu-app-devel folks)
<ScottK> highvoltage: I wouldn't hesitate.
<StevenK> ScottK: But you wouldn't.
<soren> StevenK: beat me to it :)
<ScottK> persia: I think it's reasonably obvious from the complete lack of action based on the feedback to the call for app review board candidates that there isn't much point in discussion.  Canonical is going to do what they will do and the rest of us should too.
<highvoltage> ScottK: hmm?
<highvoltage> ScottK: you mean about the blog post?
<ScottK> highvoltage: Yes.
<tumbleweed> persia: yeah (although I'll admit I only got into deb/ubu dev when I had something I needed to package)
<highvoltage> ScottK: ok, I'll do so tonight. I just have to do it tactfully, I don't want to appear to be anti-canonical or something
 * bilalakhtar joins the discussion
<ScottK> highvoltage: Don't be anti-Canonical.  Be anti-idiot.  It's up to readers to tell the difference.
<bilalakhtar> So by this we mean that packages in the new app-review thing will get sponsored faster since fewer integrity checks will be performed?
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: yes, I did find that OMGubuntu post rather misguided, the whole point of this excercise is to make it easier to get things into ubuntu after its released. (Some commenters addressed that)
<bilalakhtar> The OMG! post i misleading
<bilalakhtar> *is
<bilalakhtar> even jono said that
<ScottK> The facts were accurate.
<persia> The call for members required folks to be core-dev or MOTU.  If that's true, I don't know why it's bad.
<ScottK> persia: It didn't.
<ScottK> It said it would be good to be that, but didn't require it.
<persia> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2095 says it did
<persia> Oh, "as a bonus" :(
<ScottK> Not all members are core-dev or MOTU.
<persia> Who isn't?
<ScottK> fagan
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: What was in the post that was factually incorrect?
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: The attitude was incorrect
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: He's not allowed to have an attitude?
<soren> ScottK: There's nothing wrong in taking one's time to express oneself tactfully.
<persia> Ugh.  There's lots of folk on that board who aren't.
<bilalakhtar> It gave a feeling that this process was way too simple to get apps into Ubuntu
<ScottK> soren: There are also times when it's not particularly useful.
<persia> bilalakhtar, Why?
<bilalakhtar> And by 'Way too simple', ben meant that it would be like 'Ask for review today and your app is in tomorrow!'
<soren> ScottK: Really?
<bilalakhtar> persia: ^^
<persia> bilalakhtar, I don't have any issue with that, given the right set of reviewers.  I'm not confident of half the current reviewers.
<ScottK> soren: Witness the recent flap over the default configuration of evolution.  The thing that got it reverted was OMG telling people to go spam the bug.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: factually incorrect: "a oneoff with no updates" - surely it'll allow security / bugfix updates, just not using this scheme to update packages already in the repo (i.e. bypassing SRU)
<ScottK> tumbleweed: That's what the process says, IIRC.
<bilalakhtar> BTW, what is extras.ubuntu.com for?
<ScottK> That's where these apps will go after they are approved.
<bilalakhtar> Will it be a separate repo handling these packages?
<ScottK> Yes.
<highvoltage> ScottK: that's my problem with the OMG post, I'd like it to reference these sources
<ScottK> But it will be enabled by default.
<bilalakhtar> So we have a repo that can be disabled :(
<highvoltage> ScottK: where exactly does it say that absolutely no updates will be allowed?
<tumbleweed> ScottK: "Security bugs and problems are expected to be resolved by the application author" - that implies update uploads
<bilalakhtar> Who all will have upload rights there?
<persia> https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+members (kinda)
<ScottK> There was a humongous thread on ubuntu-devel (or maybe devel-discuss) on this relatively recently.
<bilalakhtar> persia: probably they are only for the review, but I think you are right
<ScottK> Technically it's not part of the Ubuntu distribution (like Partner is also not part of Ubuntu), so it's not really related to Ubuntu development.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: So can this be SRUed?
<bilalakhtar> I mean
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: No idea.  It's up to Canonical.
<highvoltage> bilalakhtar: you'd probably have to submit updates to the review board or something, I doubt it would follow any standard kind of sru process as we know it
<persia> ScottK, Is it so firmly something from Canonical, rather than something that can be recovered?  The little I've heard about it seemed not unpromising, but from what you say now, I worry.
<ScottK> persia: My assessment if the long ML thread is that there was lots of constructive feedback from the community and yet the plans have moved forward.
<ScottK> There were some minor changes like installing in /opt, but the bulk of the concerns were (as at UDS) not addressed.
<bilalakhtar> well, every now and then people are being told to get new packages into Debian and not Ubuntu, and now this thing has come
<persia> Ah, so in fact this can't replace our current broken processes, and we need to revive them anyway.  Oh well.
 * persia was hoping for a get-out-of-revu-free-card
<ScottK> persia: It's not our process that's broken, it's the lack of resources to execute it.  This will only aggravate it.
<highvoltage> persia: some explenation of some of the rationale behind some of the decisions would be nice. for example, why insist on non-standard packaging? it kind of irks me that they encourage people to take the time to make packages from free software that won't ever be able to be pushed back into ubuntu or debian
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: I'd say they should still get their apps into Debian in the long run
<persia> ScottK, Our process is broken because, as designed, it's not something we can execute.  How it gets fixed (throwing people at it, closer coordination with Debian, more automation, brainstorm voting, etc.) is a topic for discussion.
<ScottK> persia: OK, but we have a fundamental resource shortfall that no amount of process will fix.
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: there was some discussion on on the mailing lists (as mentioned), the rationale for /opt (and no maintainer scripts) is to reduce the damage that these packages can cause. Hopefully in the future, moving towards some sandboxing protection
<persia> highvoltage, I suspect it was to avoid the implication that it was really part of Ubuntu, somehow, in compliance with the FHS.  I'm not sure this was ultimately useful, but I haven't thought about it much.
<bilalakhtar> No maintainer scripts? What?
<persia> ScottK, Well, maybe.  We could do better at making folk want to participate in our processes.  If people are packaging random stuff for PPAs, what makes that seem preferable than packaging random stuff in collaboration with us?  I don't disagree with you, so much as think there are probably things we could do differently to make the shortfalls less painful.
<ScottK> Possibly.
<wgrant> I don't really like the extras.ubuntu.com name.
<bilalakhtar> So this is going to come in the between of the familiar REVU process and the other normal ubuntu development processes
<wgrant> It makes it sound like it's part of Ubuntu.
<wgrant> Or at least run by Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Although I think the current situation is moving towards the logical result of easy access to PPAs.
<bilalakhtar> And, the huge one
<bilalakhtar> What will happen to the package once the next release comes?
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: It's unrelated to normal Ubuntu development.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: But it has to be, in some way I guess
<ScottK> No.  It doesn't.
<bilalakhtar> To explain my point, I take up the case of the current cycle
<ScottK> It's a separate repository controlled by a separate team with separate processes.
<bilalakhtar> If X wants to get package Y into Lucid, what will happen to Y in maverick?
<ScottK> I think if you has said "To make any sense, it would be ..." I'd agree, but it doesn't.
<wgrant> bilalakhtar: You mean into the Lucid part of extras.ubuntu.com?
<bilalakhtar> And if X gets Y accepted in Debian, then would Y be removed from extras.ubuntu.com?
<bilalakhtar> wgrant: I am just explaining my point with release names
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: No.  It's a completely separate system.
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<bilalakhtar> fine
<wgrant> The processes have clearly not been well though-through.
<wgrant> I wish more discussion had been had before everything was set in stone.
<wgrant> As there are many unresolved issues, and attempts to resolve them have been rejected.
<bilalakhtar> But this is not the ultimate solution, since if it so happens that a so-called 'standalone executable' package needs to be depended upon by another package, for example, a program that wraps around it and provides a GUI for it, for example
<bilalakhtar> and if the upstream developer of the second package wants things to follow the normal process and not this separate one, then? dependency problems...
<bilalakhtar> sorry if my point wasn't clear
<persia> bilalakhtar, In cases like that, it would then need to be repackaged to fit in the repos.
<persia> (where extras.ubuntu.com doesn't count)
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: it will only work for leaf packages (I assume). And I'd guess that dependancies that aren't in Ubuntu will get bundled in with the app
<persia> Anyway, pointless to discuss at length here.  With luck ajmitch, stgraber, and statik will impose some sanity, and mvo will be able to make sure it works to match that.
<ScottK> I wish they had chosen to spend the effort actually working on improving Ubuntu.
<persia> I'm not yet convinced that they aren't: to me there exists a possibility that the initial deployment will result in sufficient thought that something else can happen.
<persia> And since I trust half the gatekeepers (they already have root on all my systems), I'm hoping that this won't cause too much of a headache.
<bilalakhtar> I first thought of applying for joining that board, but then now it appears it will only waste my time
<persia> Not having some gatekeepers I trust could end up as painful as early days of getdeb.
<bilalakhtar> I can spend doing things better apart from that
<highvoltage> bilalakhtar: meh. so do :)
<bilalakhtar> highvoltage: already doing :) just upgrading a GNOME package from upstream
<persia> bilalakhtar, You have a freeze exception already?  Otherwise, probably better to chase crashers, fail-to-run, fail-to-install, and fail-to-build.
<bilalakhtar> persia: GNOME packages don't need FFe
 * bilalakhtar has said that a million times by now :)
<persia> The output of `apt-cache unmet -i` is hug today.
<persia> bilalakhtar, They do during FinalFreeze (although they aren't as tightly controlled as other packages).
<bilalakhtar> persia: What about a GNOME universe package?
<ScottK> If it's unseeded, we aren't in final freeze for it yet.
<persia> seeded or unseeded?  (main/universe doesn't matter)
<bilalakhtar> persia: unseeded
<ScottK> That doesn't automatically translate into it's a good idea to update it.
<ScottK> You should consider risk versus benifit.
<persia> I think unseeded gets frozen sometime in the next 15-20 hours.  Still, take a look at the output of `apt-cache unmet -i`.  60% of those are easy to fix.
<persia> RCbugs needs love also.
<bilalakhtar> since it just finished building, I am also testing it right onw
<bilalakhtar> *now
<persia> bilalakhtar, Be aware that unseeded GNOME doesn't usually get the free pass on freezes that seeded GNOME gets.
<ScottK> persia: No, we'll keep it unfrozen for some time yet.  There's a mail stuck in u-d-a moderation since last Friday on it.
<persia> Ah.  I thought freeze was just awaiting moderation.
<ScottK> No.
<persia> Oh, good.  More time to play :)
<bilalakhtar> persia: Play? Archive is not playing stuff :) lol
<persia> Why not?  I play responsibly.
<persia> And if I didn't enjoy it, I should spend my time doing something else.
 * bilalakhtar uploads to the arcive very carefully
<persia> Indeed.  One has to take care, or one breaks ones toys (and more importantly, when playing with shared toys, annoys everyone else).
<bilalakhtar> Yay! Package is working well!
<ScottK> persia: All of Main/Restricted is now frozen, seeded or not - changing build-deps can cause subtle problems.
<ScottK> The math problem for unseeded Universe/Multiverse is something like this:
<persia> I thought "seeded" implied everything in the seeds and everything in their recursive {build-,}{depends,recommends}
<sistpoty|work> persia: does that make karma a high score then? :P
<ScottK> release -36 hours for the final, final upload to the archive (that's time for fixing a last minute OMGWTFBBQ problem and mirror sync) and then 3 days prior to that for final freeze where all uploads are reviewed (IIRC, I wrote the mail on Friday).
<ScottK> persia: ^^^ math problem for U/M final freeze.
<persia> sistpoty|work, I don't like to keep score :p
<sistpoty|work> heh
<persia> ScottK, Only 3 days for unseeded FinalFreeze?  I'd like to have seen a week, but I can understand you don't want to review them all :)
<ScottK> Also we're counting that from the actual release day, 10/10, not the process release day of 10/7.
<ScottK> u-d-a mail should be out now.
<persia> Right.  process release day -> actual release day is the OMGWTFBBQ 3 days, right?
<persia> Oh, no, only half.
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> dholbach still in vacation ?
<persia> Probably.  He's not been saying "good morning"
<highvoltage> ScottK: I blogged about it, I kept it very, very friendly though.
<geser> AnAnt: "Iâll be back on 29th September." from dholbach's blog post about his vacation
<AnAnt> aha
<bilalakhtar> AnAnt: dholbach's visa mentions him as Daniel Holbakh, not ch
<bilalakhtar> see the arabic part :)
<AnAnt> bilalakhtar: as far as I know, in Deutsch language "ch" is equivalent to "Ø®" in arabic
<AnAnt> bilalakhtar: indeed, that's how we pronounce the name of their classical musician "Bach"
<bilalakhtar> AnAnt: Its good to see people visiting the middle east while others consider this region as inferior
<persia> It's like the sound at the end of (bad transliteration) sabakh
<persia> Well, in some areas.  In other parts of germany it's more like the sound in the second part of "good mornig" (after the al-), but I'm not even going to attempt to transliterate that.
<bilalakhtar> persia: Hows it like attending DMB meetings when you're living in Japan? MIght have to wake up extra, I suppose
<AnAnt> persia: ah, you mean "sabah" (ie. morning) ?
<bilalakhtar> Sabah Al-Khair
<bilalakhtar> -> Good morning
<persia> AnAnt, Like I said, bad transliteration.  Depending on regional accent anywhere from English "sh" to Arabic "Kh" (from your transliteration)
 * persia tends to pronounce bare "h" without any friction, whereas "sabah" was learned with light friction
<ScottK> highvoltage: You have at least one comment awaiting moderation.
<highvoltage> ScottK: approved
<highvoltage> (and thanks)
<ScottK> highvoltage: Feel free to ask me something like "Gee.  That sounds lake a great way to do this, how come it wasn't discussed at UDS?"
<highvoltage> ScottK: I can't! I'm afraid of what the answer will be!
<ScottK> The answer is, of course, that it was.
<highvoltage> ScottK: my guess would be that they felt that backports was too complicated?
<ScottK> That's the official explanation, although technically it would have been less complicated to implement.
<ScottK> My view is they arrived with their plan and weren't very open to feedback.
<ScottK> Which is pretty consistent with the way the more recent ML discussion went.
<highvoltage> ScottK: imho the effort of creating a package of sufficient quality of being in a backport isn't that much more than doing a simpler package that would pass the app review package
<highvoltage> (if that doesn't make sense, then sorry. my english really seems to suck today :p)
<ScottK> highvoltage: I'd put it differently.  If the package isn't good enough to be in Ubuntu (for the next release or backports) why is it good enough to be immediately provided to all Ubuntu users via this new repository.
<highvoltage> ScottK: *nod*
<Laney> ScottK: Officially they are not a part of Ubuntu, and so users won't blame the distribution if the quality suffers.
<Laney> Yeah, right.
<directhex> Laney, everything is ubuntu;s fault
<kklimonda> directhex: +1
<kklimonda> ;)
<RainCT> bdrung_: so I'm spamming your inbox? :)
<RainCT> uhm how can I tell pbuilder that I care a Â·$% about keyrings so it'll give me a Maverick pbuilder on Debian?
<Laney> what does that mean?
<Laney> .$%
<tumbleweed> RainCT: you mean --debootstrapopts --keyring=foo ?
<RainCT> Laney: whatever nice word you want ;)
<Laney> oh, "lot"
<Laney> ;)
<RainCT> tumbleweed: yes, except that I don't want it to use any keyring since I don't feel like hunting it down
<tumbleweed> RainCT: just --recv-keys and use your own keyring (that's how I do it)
<Laney> I just installed the ubuntu-archive-keyring on Debian
<Laney> :(
<RainCT> Laney: Yup, just did the same.  Couldn't they have implemented this by adding a --i-am-paranoid option? ^^
<bdrung_> RainCT: no, you are not. if you fix 42 bugs in ubuntu-dev-tools, i might count that as spamming. ;)
<huats> nxvl, you and your team are waited in ubuntu-meeting
<huats> :)
<RainCT> bdrung_: okay, then I'll do 42 commits to fix a single bug ;)
<bdrung_> RainCT: no, commits don't count. only linked branches
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: there you go, sponsor-patch has a manpage. Happy with it?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: lemme see
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: "to an Ubuntu bug bug,"
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: "Should  any  checks  (or the build fail), the user has an option to edit the patched source and try building it again." seems to belong to point 4., but it shouldn't, should it?
<tumbleweed> grr@nroff :)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: besides that, it's good. thanks.
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: one more thing: it's not only for sponsoring, it's for the ubuntu-review team too. it can pull patches (not debdiffs). the use case for ubuntu-review would be to pull the patch, apply it, upload to a PPA
<RainCT> bdrung_: what do you have against bugs in bugs? :(
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: maybe it would be useful to have example usages explained
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: yeah, I tried to not rule out the ubuntu-review workflow in any wording, but it doesn't exactly say it can do it either. Examples are probably good.
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: one could be "sponsor-patch -s <one-sponsor-request-bug>"
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: another could be "sponsor-patch -u ppa:<user>/<ppa-name> <ubuntu-review-bug>"
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: "bugs in bugs?" the word _bugs_ twice sounds weird
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: review-bug probably needs -e
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: "bugs in bugs" ?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: not necessarily
<tumbleweed> I mean so that the changelog entry can be generated (assuming th ereview bug is a straight patch)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: sorry. RainCT "bugs in bugs" confused me. ignore that.
 * RainCT was just joking, haven't looked at the manpage at all
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: sponsor-patch should generate a changelog entry stating that the patch is applied
<bdrung_> RainCT: i thought your reply was a reply from tumbleweed
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: btw, sponsor-patch updates the timestamp in debian/changelog
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: yeah, I just saw that now. I can't see anything about changelog entry generation, though
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: SPONSOR_PATCH_WORKDIR should be mentioned in the man page
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: i forgot the changelog generation. it's in my brain's TODO list. here. can you see it? ;)
<tumbleweed> :P
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: i need to add a --workdir, -w for overriding SPONSOR_PATCH_WORKDIR
<tumbleweed> yeah sounds good
<Shishire> ok, I'm trying to make a local change to a package which I downloaded from a ppa.  I was able to get the source package separately, but it's not in the ppa.  I'm trying to get the build depends from it, but when I try to pbuilder it, pbuilder errors out saying that it didn't have dependancies installed.  But it never tried to download them.  Google isn't helping much.
<micahg> Shishire: maybe try #ubuntu-packaging
<Shishire> micahg, thanks.  didn't know it existed
<jenkins> hello I am having a few issues packaging. I am getting this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/498007/ . Is anyone able to help me work out what I am doing wtong?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: pushed :)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: pushed again
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: the man page has still "bug bug". The examples should be indented and surrounded by empty lines.
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: edit-patch will create a changelog entry
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: bug <bug> does make sense, but I'll reword it. ok. Aah right.
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: let me know once you pushed your changes
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: pushed
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: ppa -> PPA. may it be useful to change "an Ubuntu bug" -> "an Ubuntu <bug>"?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-22
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: yes. no, not so mad about that
<bdrung_> \o/ finally i can build audacity for unstable.
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: thank you very much for the man page
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: np
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: what needs to be done for 'But there is a production-related bug: translate_web_api seems to require "staging" or "web" in the URL.'?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: I haven't looked into it properly yet, but translate_web_api looks like it expects either staging or edge, whoops not web
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: does hugdaylist 0.101 work?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: yes, although it requires a .edge. URL (and only seems to support a very limited subset of lp buglist URLs)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: can we set edge for hugdaylist?
<tumbleweed> bugs.e.l.n/ubuntu/+source/foo seems to work
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: manage-credentials and massfile use that function too, so someone should probably work out what it does and fix it :)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: where is this function?
<tumbleweed> ubuntutools/lp/libsupport.py
<tumbleweed> I mean it's a simple enough function, I just haven't read everything that calls it (to find out why it does the checks it does)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: the fix seems trivial
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: it should be, yes
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: try this patch: http://pastebin.com/uSfB7F2L
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: production URLs don't contain .production. (it doesn't work)
<ari-tczew> if package is FTBFS and
<ari-tczew> Debian has got a new version (includes new upstream release) and Debian package built fine, it's require a FFe?
<ari-tczew> for sync
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: let's ask for help in #launchpad
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: main or universe?
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: universe
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: if it introduces new features, yes.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: As bdrung_ says.  If it fixes FTBFS, then that will be a factor making it more likely to get approved.
<ari-tczew> ok thanks ScottK and bdrung_
<bdrung_> i should go to bed. i have closed the wrong bug in d/changelog
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: u-d-t 0.103 is ready for upload once ubuntutools/lp/libsupport.py supports the production API in translate_web_api()
<bdrung_> who wrote translate_web_api?
<ari-tczew> I've uploaded a patch into bzr. do I need to run next command to build a package in maverick universe?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: bzr blame says jpds. This works: http://pastebin.com/vL2tUdxf
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: what value has netloc on production?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: netloc = hostname (so bugs.launchpad.net)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: and launchpad._root_uri?
<tumbleweed> https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: let's talk to the launchpad guys
<kklimonda> hmm, why do some libraries add a -x.0 after name? like libgtk-x11-2.0.so or libcouchdb-glib-1.0?
<persia> kklimonda, Hrm?  Could you be more verbose?
<persia> My quick guess would be to allow libgtk-x11-2.1 to be installed in parallel.
<kklimonda> persia: what is the point of adding a version of the library to its name
<kklimonda> persia: it's what the version after .so is for, isn't it?
<persia> Right, but different namespace.
<kklimonda> you can have libgtk-x11.so.1 and libgtk-x11.so.2
<persia> There's packaging namespace and filesystem namespace.
<ajmitch> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#naminglibpkg has some extra info in it
<persia> (or libgtk-x11.so.2.1)
<persia> ajmitch, Doesn't that just suggest naming the package to match upstream's SONAME choice?
<kklimonda> persia: what namespace are you talking about?
<ajmitch> persia: yes, in this case it is an upstream thing
<persia> I'm unsure if it's a "bug", but yeah.
<ajmitch> where they've decided to have some versioning in the library name
<kklimonda> and the reason for it is.. ? :)
<persia> kklimonda, So, lets assume we want to install libgtk-x11.  Let's further assume that we want to install two different versions.  Lastly, let's assume that for convenience sake, we want to have two different source packages (as the sources are wildly different).  How else do we manage this?
<ajmitch> a way to show that two libraries are different in API as well as ABI?
<persia> I think the reason upstream does this sort of thing is because upstream is thinking about packaging, rather than being normal upstream.
<ajmitch> gtk+ 1.2 & 2.0 are quite different, so they name them differently
<kklimonda> but from their perspective just using so.1.0 and so.2.0 would be enough - I agree that it would make it harder for package them in a sane way probably.
<kklimonda> persia: source packages could be still gtk+2.0 and gtk+3.0 so the question would be how to name libgtk so it's clear what version they are.
<persia> Right, so upstreams that do a lot of packaging sometimes do it the other way.  It's an upstream bug, but one we're not usually unhappy about them not fixing.
<ajmitch> you can only have one .so symlink though
<persia> kklimonda, true.  Feel free to fix the issues, if you have a clean solution.  Just make sure the fix works for all the downstreams of the upstream :)
<kklimonda> persia: nah, I was just curious why is it done this way. Now I see some good reasons for doing it.
<ajmitch> this is also a way to be able to build against multiple versions of the library on the system
<persia> Which is critical if we wish to support multiple versions simultaneously.  We try to avoid that, but it's a massive amount of porting in some cases, and doesn't happen within a release cycle.
<ajmitch> probably why gtk+ is the example being used
<lifeless> did we just port the ud discussion here?:P
<ajmitch> lifeless: not quite :)
<persia> lifeless, The answers are similar.  The initial question was different :)
<lifeless> 42Q
<kklimonda> :)
 * ajmitch hopes we haven't caused any heads to explode in here
<ScottK> No.  Trying to figure out why you volunteered for ARB hurt my head more.
<SpamapS> ScottK: around?
<persia> SpamapS, timezone suggests it's getting rather late there
<SpamapS> indeed
<SpamapS> we're all a bit ghoulish though, aren't we?
<persia> No.  Lots of folks who get up early and tuck in by 21:00 local around as well.
<fabrice_sp> anyone has an idea why this FTBFS: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fso-usaged/0.9.1.1+git20100507-1/+build/1745783 Everything is ok, and build successful....
<kklimonda> fabrice_sp: Function `dbus_ipeer_dbus_proxy_new' implicitly converted to pointer at resource.c:1220
<kklimonda> fabrice_sp: missing prototype probably.
<kklimonda> it probably doesn't fail on i386 because this isn't fatal there but may be (or always is?) fatal on 64bit architecture
<fabrice_sp> kklimonda, isn't it only a warning? What bugs me is that the build ends successfully but still appears as a FTBFS
<persia> fabrice_sp, It's unsafe: at runtime, it may or may not crash, depending on environmental factors: You need to make sure your pointers are safe for 64-bit.
<kklimonda> fabrice_sp: as I said, it's a potential error on amd64 and builder detects it and, as a result, fails a build
<persia> On amd64, there's a chance it will work, but it will probably crash for most folk.  On other 64-bit architectures, it will almost certainly crash.
<fabrice_sp> kklimonda, can you point me where in the build log it fails? I can't see it...
<kklimonda> fabrice_sp: at the bottom of the log there is a message from builder :)
<kklimonda> fabrice_sp: "Our automated build log filter detected the problem(s) above that will
<kklimonda> likely cause your package to segfault on architectures where the size of
<kklimonda> a pointer is greater than the size of an integer, such as ia64 and amd64"
<fabrice_sp> ohhhhh
 * fabrice_sp shouldn't work on FTBFS so early....
<fabrice_sp> thanks! will have a look at this error later, then
<persia> The other option is to only support i386/armel/powerpc, but some folk would be annoyed by that :)
<Rhonda> The shadow for the headline lettering on planet ubuntu is really disturbing, frankly spoken. Whom to bug about potentially have that shadow not *that* far moved off?
<Rhonda> 0.1em is a bit much for the bigger fonts.
<persia> Probably email rt@ubuntu.com and hunt someone in #canonical-sysadmin
<persia> You might find a useful tweakable in lp:~planet-ubuntu/config/main or lp:ubuntu-drupal-planet which you'd want to tweak first.
<persia> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-drupal-devs/+members is a list of people to ask for commit if you have to change the latter
<RainCT> hey dapal :)
<dapal> RainCT: hey :)
<dapal> RainCT: uhm, I should be sponsoring another thing from you..
<dapal> RainCT: was that gnome-a-j ?
<RainCT> dapal: Yup.
<dapal> ack :)
<dapal> fixed the 403? :P
<RainCT> Yes
<Riddell> tumbleweed: ping
<Riddell> tumbleweed: why is bug 638879 reported on dgen but about ora2pg ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 638879 in dgen (Ubuntu) "Please remove ora2pg (multiverse) from the archive" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/638879
<Riddell> bdrung_: on bug 644667 you subscribed ubuntu-archive but the bug isn't confirmed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 644667 in openshot (Ubuntu) "Sync openshot 1.2.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644667
<bdrung_> Riddell: Jonathan subscribed ubuntu-archive. you can unsubscribe ubuntu-archive until we get an ACK from ubuntu-release
<Riddell> bdrung_: thanks done
<tumbleweed> Riddell: wtf? no clue how that happened.
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: I presume you saw my u-d-t fix. It's pretty much the same as the original.
<Riddell> tumbleweed: so it's ora2pg to be removed and nothing done with dgen?
<tumbleweed> Riddell: correct
<Riddell> tumbleweed: done
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: can you please check if staging still works?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: the if statement seems to inverted (was: if not (staging or edge), but now it's: if staging or edge)
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: staging works. the check was to see that both URL and the launchpad instance were pointing at the same service (staging or edge) the problem with adding production is that you get hostnames like bugs.launchpad.net and edge.launchpad.net
<micahg> if Debian has an foo-x | foo (> y) , and we don't have foo-x, we don't need to remove it from the depends list right, as long as foo (>y) will be fulfilled?
<geser> correct
<micahg> k, yay! I can get rid of another merge :)
<micahg> I guess it made sense for Lucid since the upgrades might have been confused
<ari-tczew> I'm sad due to watching it: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgdchart-gd2/0.11.5-7
<ari-tczew> new MOTU member didn't test build before uploading :(
<Laney> Also used syncpackage pointlessly.
<ari-tczew> Laney: do we should warn Bhavani to avoid these cases in future?
<mr_pouit> it's just a cdbs issue
<Laney> ari-tczew: A gentle reminder might be a good idea. And this should be fixed.
<Laney> mr_pouit: It doesn't matter what the issue is, packages should be tested before upload.
<mr_pouit> maybe you should ask him *before* blaming him, don't you think?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ^^
<micahg> +1
<Laney> I tested it myself :)
<Laney> but I don't think anyone is being overly critical here
<ari-tczew> everyone don't blaming him
<directhex> can i blame someone? i do so enjoy blaming people for things
<sistpoty|work> directhex: blame me, I can live with it :P
<ari-tczew> people are too sensitive...
<ari-tczew> please don't make a suicide in future
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: why are you pinging me?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: due to Bhavani's mistake
<cjwatson> what do you want me to do about it?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: only information. you approved him with a review
<mr_pouit> sigh
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: if you think the DMB should be aware of something, please mail our list (developer-membership-board@lists.ubuntu.com) rather than speaking to individual DMB members
<geser> ari-tczew: please collect this kind of data if you stumble upon it (and if he improves over time or not) and let the DMB know in January when we re-evaluate his MOTUship
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: unless you expect me to remember something until January and to be able to accurately pass on the information to the rest of the DMB
<cjwatson> in which case you have a greatly inflated opinion of my memory ;-)
<Laney> where are approval mails sent these days?
<cjwatson> for developer approvals?  devel-permissions, ubuntu-devel-announce
<Laney> I see DMB minutes but not individual approvals like there once were
<Laney> maybe on -permissions though, didn't look there
<geser> in theory devel-permissions, but in practice it's only mentioned in the minutes :(
<Laney> would be nice if the meeting log were attached, too (I think mootbot does this?)
<Laney> or a link
<ari-tczew> Laney: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/14/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<Laney> thanks
<wgrant> An interesting meeting.
<wgrant> (although I was 15, not 16)
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: u-d-t 0.103 is ready for upload to experimental (and it's lintian clean).
<directhex> does pull-debian-source work with the new rmadison?
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: will have a look later
<bdrung_> directhex: i ran "pull-debian-source mozilla-devscripts" and it worked
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: it has man pages (thanks to tumbleweed) and some more bugs fixed
<DktrKranz> nice
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: looking at ubuntu-dev-tools right now, final OK to upload?
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: yes (unless you want to fix something from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools)
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: the requestsync bug list is quite long: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools?field.searchtext=requestsync
<DktrKranz> I see
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: uploading
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: thanks
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: from now on (well, not until projectb ACL table is updated), you can upload new revisions :)
<bdrung_> :)
<dandel> i have two bugs in backports that need some attention (64-bit issues)
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: maybe FFe bug should be updated with latest changelog entry
<dandel> also, i was redirected here from the ubuntu-bugs.
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: done
<geser> bdrung_: Hi, I've looked at some requestsync bugs and with some I don't have an idea what to do with them as they are not directly bugs in requestsync but only that requestsync doesn't catch the error if a LP API call fails.
<geser> bug 531727, bug 528744 and bug 517866
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531727 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "requestsync crashed in _request" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531727
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528744 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "requestsync crashed with HTTPError in _request()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517866 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "requestsync crashed with --- in _request()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517866
<geser> the first one could eventually be marked as duplicate of the one mentioned in my comment
<bdrung_> geser: the fix would be to write a try...catch statement and tell the user what went wrong an give a propper formatted error message.
<geser> yes, catching the error is easy but I'm not sure if just displaying the error message will be enough e.g. when an edited report gets lost and needs to be retyped
<geser> and as the LP API doesn't fail often it's also hard to check if the fix realy fixes it
<bdrung_> geser: depends on the situation where it fails. you can store the report or ask the user to retry.
<dandel> bug 607505 and bug 585045 are in need of 64-bit testing packages (or in general updated packages)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607505 in lucid-backports "[test-pkg-a] Please backport VLC 1.1.3" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607505
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585045 in lucid-backports "[test-pkg-a] Please backport Calibre 0.7.13" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585045
<bdrung_> dandel: vlc 1.1.4 is already there
<dandel> it's not in the 64-bit repo tho
<geser> bdrung_: will think about the bugs when I've some more free time again
<dandel> bdrung_, anyways, these are backports requests.
<bdrung_> dandel: i know. will ffmpeg 0.6 be backported? this would introduce new issues (for example audacity)
<geser> bdrung_: do you know an easy way to check in python if a script is run with an UTF-8 locale? as that would allow to fix bug #553795
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553795 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "requestsync crashed with UnicodeEncodeError in edit_report()" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553795
<bdrung_> geser: no.
<dandel> bdrung_, newer copies of vlc require ffmpeg 0.6 to enable hardware accelerated decoding
<bdrung_> dandel: i have a patch at hand for backporting vlc without pulling other newer packages
<DktrKranz> geser: something like python -c "import locale; print locale.getdefaultlocale()[1]" could be a start
<neeraj> can I still file feature freeze exception?
<neeraj> * for new upstream versons
<bdrung_> neeraj: yes, but you have to provide a good reason for getting the exception
<bdrung_> neeraj: main or universe package?
<bdrung_> dandel: i gave my comment to the vlc backport
<dandel> bdrung_, i use audacity and ffmpeg 0.6 and it has no issues.
<bdrung_> dandel: try to use ffmpeg to export a file and you will see
<bdrung_> dandel: i just fixed the problem with version 1.3.12-7 in maverick
<neeraj> bdrung_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-sugar-remix-meta (I think its main)
<ScottK> It's not main.
<bdrung_> neeraj: universe
<bdrung_> neeraj: look at "Component"
<lool> Hi folks
<lool> Would an archive admin be so kind to look at syncing systemtap from experimental?  LP #645200 has the rationale
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645200 in systemtap (Ubuntu) "please sync systemtap 1.3 from debian experimental" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645200
<lool> basically the current version doesn't work wiht .35 kernels which is what we have in maverick; the new version is confirmed as fixed
<sladen> if it's a case of the current functionality being non-existant (fundementally broken), but it seems a no-brainer to me since any upgrade is not going to be /worse/
<lool> Yup
<lool> apparently there was an incompatible change in the tracing interface of the kernel
<jenkins> I am not able to get an answer from #ubuntu-packaging.I have a debian/copyright file but I am still getting the lithan tag "no-copyright-file" Any suggestions what could be causing it?
<bdrung_> jenkins: can you show me the build log?
<jenkins> bdrung_: the stuff in the terminal or is it a file that is generated?
<bdrung_> jenkins: there will be a build log if you use debuild
<jenkins> bdrung_: is this what you ment http://paste.ubuntu.com/498705/ ?
<bdrung_> yes
<bdrung_> jenkins: can you paste the content of debian/rules?
<bdrung_> jenkins: found it: there is no dh_installdocs call
<jenkins> thanks bdrung_ I will give that a go
<jenkins> thats great bdrung_
<bdrung_> you're welcome
<micahg> SpamapS: I see you got mongodb to build :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: does bug 645125 needs an ACK from release team?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645125 in request-tracker3.8 (Ubuntu) "Sync request-tracker3.8 3.8.8-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645125
<micahg> ari-tczew: shouldn't, is there something in teh changelog that you think warrants an FFe?
<ari-tczew> micahg: hmm, I'm thinking whether this sync is valuable.
<micahg> ari-tczew: Documentation updates are valuable as they explain the past 2 updates
<micahg> ari-tczew: translations are also valuable
<ari-tczew> micahg: I said about release team, because I saw that bdrung_ subscribed ubuntu-release to bug 640682 where are not upstream release included, only bugfixes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 640682 in ibus-unikey (Ubuntu) "Please sync ibus-unikey 0.5-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/640682
<micahg> ari-tczew: that's because it's in main
 * ari-tczew is planning to clean up sponsors queue and start natty development with clear queue
<micahg> ari-tczew: sponsors queue is pretty clean for universe
<ari-tczew> micahg: I think also for main
<micahg> ari-tczew: all main uploads require a release team ack
<micahg> ari-tczew:  you can't do anything for main
<ari-tczew> micahg: you don't understand me. as a member of ubuntu-sponsors, I can unsubscribe, if there are nothing to sponsor
<micahg> ari-tczew: hmm, well, I guess you could go through then, but I don't think people are randomly subscribing -sponsors w/out something to sponsor
<ari-tczew> micahg: ok, let's back to your request. what tests have you done with this package?
<micahg> ari-tczew: should be a build log attached
<micahg> ari-tczew: and it installed fine locally
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: you are welcome to work on items that target main.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew, micahg: there a lot that can be done. either unsubscribe if there nothing to sponsor, or make sure the patch applies, works, forward it to upstream (and after that pinging me to get it uploadad).
<micahg> bdrung_: k, if that works, I'll can try to help with that as well
 * micahg would also like to see and empty sponsors queue :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: I would suggest you to review current syncs requests for main (fresh bugs)
<bdrung_> micahg: yes. some bugs are there for very long. even reading them takes much time.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: probably most needs an ACK from ubuntu-release
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: ah, yes. I forgot
<micahg> bdrung_: one of my main requests won't go in until after maverick, am I better off unsubscribing -sponsors?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: everyone can subscribe ubuntu-release
<bdrung_> micahg: that would be nice (and don't forget to subscribe -sponsors again once natty is open)
<micahg> bdrung_: k, it's just a transitional package cleanup, can I assign myself or is that bad form?
<bdrung_> micahg: you can assign yourself.
<bdrung_> micahg: once it should be sponsored, unassign yourself
<micahg> bdrung_: k
 * micahg is off for now
<Bachstelze> ari-tczew: what's the standard procedure for forwarding to Debian? For another bug, I just reported it on Debian's bug tracker and attached my Ubuntu patch, with no answer
<bdrung_> Bachstelze: bug number?
<Bachstelze> debian bug 594429
<ubottu> Debian bug 594429 in libopensc2 "Storing a RSA key fails on EnterSafe cards" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/594429
<Bachstelze> oh never mind, there was an answer
<Bachstelze> wonder why I didn't get an email
<bdrung_> Bachstelze: because you have to subscribe to the bug to get all responses
<bdrung_> Bachstelze: you could link the ubuntu bug to the debian bug
<Bachstelze> I might get the same answer on the freeciv one ari-tczew said I should foward then, it's also fixed upstream
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: I understand, but Debian doesn't have packed latest upstream release, so you should forward changes.
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: also, you can request an upgrade to new upstream release
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers
<ari-tczew> saying easier: you can use script 'submittodebian' or create a new debian bug manually including your patch and information about changes.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: sync includes new upstream release. bug reporter wrote informations about FFe. does it still needs ACK from release team? package is in universe
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: if (new feature) or (package in main): require ACK from release team
<Bachstelze> okay, I'll do that tomorrow, it's almost midnight here :o
<soren> pretto: /win 61
<soren> Whoops
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: here's a current sponsorship overview: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
<bdrung_> i have now an non-interactive script that updates this page
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: I know, tumbleweed sent me yours and his page
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: i just uploaded an update
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: let me know when i should update the page
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: bug #645019
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645019 in skyeye (Ubuntu) "[ARMEL] FTBFS: '__open_missing_mode' declared with attribute error: open with O_CREAT in second argument needs 3 arguments" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645019
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: do you need run update manually?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: yes
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: i hope that my fix will be merged soon
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: why you ping me on this bug?
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: hm, but dholbach's script runs update manually right?
<ari-tczew> automatically * ^^
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: because you processed this bug.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: the scripts on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ is run periodically, automatically, but due to a bug index.html is not created.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: i have made a fix and pushed the branch to get it merged
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: aha I understand.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: for me you can now update
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: update started
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: there is one more reason for getting the queue empty: the sponsor-page script will be faster ;)
<ari-tczew> :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: I hope we will start natty with clean queue. I think that 30th October is at the latest deadline.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: do you have enough time for that? i want to reduce it to zero for over a year and you see the current situation...
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: I have not many time, but I'll leave merging packages for take a look on sponsors queue.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: if you can process two or three request per day, it's doable
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: i assume that i use 50 % of my time for sponsoring and 50 % for my packages this cycle. no time left to merge other packages...
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: update run done
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: coolbhavi told me that he is intersted in sponsoring for universe @natty devel cycle
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: keeping the universe part of the queue short is not the problem.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: getting the backlog of main requests processed is.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: during natty devel I'll have less time due to last year in school.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: updating the sponsors list takes 5m13.325s
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: and every update takes time and resources for still subscribed bugs
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: yes, there is no real cache used
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: maybe coolbhavi will help us to clean queue
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: will you be at the UDS?
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: unfortunately not :( and you? why ask? :)
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: no (only remote). i think it would be useful to have a track about the sponsor queue
<ari-tczew> aha
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-23
<lfaraone> If the *only* change in a New Upstream Version is to fix a single bug that I want to SRU, can I just upload the NUV to the SRU queue as "0.2.1-0ubuntu0.10.04.1" or something?
<neeraj> Hi, I was about to file an FFe for updating ubuntu-sugar-remix-meta package and was going through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze%20for%20new%20upstream%20versions
<neeraj> I didn't understand the Upstream Changelog diff. I hope attaching the debdiff file will do.
<lfaraone> neeraj: if it's an ubuntu-native package, it's not needed.
<lfaraone> neeraj: since the usr metapackage is not developed separately, it's not a "new upstream version" per se.
<neeraj> lfaraone: Ok. A new version
<neeraj> *?
<lfaraone> eeraj: if you're just re-running the "update package" script I don't even think you'll need a FFe, but ScottK would know better than I would.
<lfaraone> * neeraj
<neeraj> lfaraone: yes. I only ran update package script.
<ScottK> lfaraone and neeraj: I approved it.
<neeraj> ScottK: Thanks :)
<ScottK> lfaraone: Technically adding new packages is a new feature, but not a major one.  I'd like to see about getting release delegation for you for u-s-r so you can just decide it.
<lfaraone> ScottK: oh, that'd be cool. I guess I just need to get in front of the techboard?
<ScottK> lfaraone: No, it's a delegation from the release team.
<lfaraone> ScottK: ah, exciting. so I don't have to make another meeting :)
<lfaraone> ScottK: where to I sign?
<ScottK> I just sent a mail to the release team list.  As long as there is consensus around the idea, it won't be a problem.  Now we wait.
<lfaraone> ScottK: saw it, thanks!
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<lfaraone> ScottK: so this wouldn't cover everything in the packageset, I gather.
<ScottK> lfaraone: No, but I assume that you're either fixing bugs or wanting new packages sync'ed so that's not a big deal.
<ScottK> It's late in the game, so I figure to start small.
<lfaraone> ScottK: fair enough.
<lfaraone> ScottK: btw, a new package that should show up in the next week, a "sugar-abrowser-activity". (won't be synced from Debian, I'll probably be the one packaging it) Should I work to get it ready by FinalFreeze, or is that not realisticlly acceptable? (really small wrapper script, which we can't call Firefox because it's themed differently)
<ScottK> If it's super simple and you promise it won't hurt my head to review it, go ahead.
<lfaraone> ScottK: yessir.
<bilalakhtar> good morning
<Laney> anyone got a squeeze system that they fancy testing something on for me?
<soren> Laney: Is it fun?
<Laney> err... yeah
<Laney> sure! really fun!
<soren> Laney: It has to be fun. I have to go get the laptop on a shelf, find a power supply and wait for it to boot.
<soren> Laney: So if it's not fun, I'll hate you forever and ever.
<Laney> Maybe not that fun.
<soren> :(
<Laney> Run the test case on http://trac.informatik.uni-bremen.de:8080/hets/ticket/794 against ghc6 & libghc6-gtk-dev from squeeze
 * soren was in the mood for fun
<soren> Oh, gui? No can do.
<Laney> :'(
 * tumbleweed has a squeeze box here, one sec
<soren> It's my Xen test box. No GUI.
<Laney> yay for tumbleweed!
<Laney> if it's broken then it'll hang when you click one of the buttons
<tumbleweed> Laney: it hangs
<Laney> tumbleweed: hmm, thnks
<Laney> not sure whether to be happy at that or not
<Laney> at least we can make the change in Debian
<porthose> is GPL3 and CC-non-commercial compatible?  I'm working on an app that is released under GPL3 but has a component that is released under CC-non-commerical
<jetienne> q. where the prerm scripts of the installed packages are storred ?
<jpds> jetienne: /var/lib/dpkg/info
<jetienne> jpds: thx
<jpds> jetienne: You are welcome.
<lucidfox> Huh
<lucidfox> I just noticed that one of my shirts has the word UPSTREAM written along it
<ScottK> porthose: No.
<ScottK> porthose: Anything non-commercial is not GPL compatible.
<porthose> ScottK, thx that is what I thought just making sure :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: I'm thinking about create a new step for main-sponsoring procedure.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: some bugs could through the reviewers-team step
<ari-tczew> when universe-sponsor has reviewed a patch and when it looks good, then should add a tag, e.g. 'upload-ready'
<ari-tczew> then main sponsor like you bdrung_ will look for bugs with tag 'upload-ready'
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: the upload-ready tag sounds good to me
<ari-tczew> nice!
<Laney> but he'd still have to review it anyway.
<ari-tczew> Laney: that's normal... We are talking about situations, when universe-sponsor is looking on bugs subscribed e.g. 2 years ago
<bdrung_> Laney: yes, but then the throughput will be increased
<Laney> How?
<Laney> You still have to review just as dilligently, there's just a different queue to review from
<bdrung_> Laney: it's like cherry picking bugs
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: could you explain what we plan? :
<ari-tczew> :)
<bdrung_> Laney: universe sponsors can still reject a patch, request an improvement, forward it to upstream, etc.
<Laney> At the very least the upload-ready name is a misnomer.
<Laney> please-prioritise-this-main-sponsors
<ari-tczew> sigh... well, what about tag
<Laney> :)
<ari-tczew> 'main-sponsorship-ready' ?
<bdrung_> or reviewed-by-motu
<directhex> i-like-muffins
<ari-tczew> Laney: example: we have in sponsors queue an old bug, patch is targeted to jaunty and package is present @main. please look what I'm doing: bug 312384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312384 in Package Descriptions for Ubuntu "a typo in description of "Cluster Management"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312384
<ari-tczew> the same thing motu can do for bug 375890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375890 in pidgin-libnotify (Ubuntu) "Typo in patch to configure.ac" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375890
<iulian> I think there's a difference between a core developer and a motu.  Let's keep it that way, at least for now.
<ari-tczew> I don't agree with iulian.
<ari-tczew> I propose to start discuss through list-mail.
<Laney> ari-tczew: I don't understand why you unsubscribed the sponsors there. The change was (presumably) good; we shouldn't necessarily expect contributors to follow our release cycle closely.
<Laney> It would have been easy for a sponsor to adjust the changelog...
<Laney> In previous cycles I have just added [natty] to the subject
<bdrung_> iulian: what's the difference between a core dev and motu?
<ari-tczew> upload rights
<Laney> bdrung_: Everyone can triage bugs, that's fine and encouraged.
<bdrung_> beside upload rights?
<Laney> I don't think creating a double-review expectation is helpful though
<bdrung_> Laney: it's just for getting processed the backlog of main bugs. there are sponsor request that are older than two years.
<ari-tczew> Laney: ok mastermind, let's give a better idea for clean up sponsors queue. go ahead!
<Laney> ...
<ari-tczew> I thought so.
<Laney> I can't interact with someone with that tone
 * ari-tczew is sad :(
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: i am not satisfied how you processed bug #312384. if i would process the bug, i would have checked if it still valid and check if it can be forwarded to upstream or Debian. in this case Debian could be affected.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312384 in Package Descriptions for Ubuntu "a typo in description of "Cluster Management"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312384
<Laney> and I don't think there's any problem with anyone reviewing the main queue, but there's no need for a tag or any kind of double review expectation
<Laney> just use your unsubscription and status altering abilities
<bdrung_> Laney: i like the idea of prepending [natty] to the bug.
 * Laney is out for a few hours, ttyl
<Laney> bdrung_: yeah, it's worked well in the past
<Laney> for deferring fixes post-freeze
 * Laney waves
<bdrung_> Laney: let's talk later about it
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: so, I suggest to write about it on wiki
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: which one? the [natty] title or the reviewed-by-motu tag?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: the first yes and let's discuss the second first.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: maybe a status may be sufficient. let's wait until Laney is back.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: all things in one page. Maybe we should create a new wiki page about reviewing bugs for main by universe sponsors.
<iulian> bdrung_: I'm not going to explain to you the difference between a core developer and a motu.  I believe you should know that already.  The main reason I said that is because I don't see the point in having two developers review the same patch.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: i don't think that we should document it yet. i hope this can be a one-time thing. getting the queue empty and keep it small.
<iulian> In this case, two developers with different upload privileges.
<bdrung_> iulian: the point is that the main queue lacks sponsors and that there are many old one in there. (1) some bugs may not be valid any more, (2) some needs work, (3) some should be fixed upstream first, and (4) some are still valid. i would prefer to review the bugs falling under point (4) first. point (1) till (3) can be processed by motu too.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: ok sorry for my bad step. this is a new idea and everyone can do mistakes on start.
<ari-tczew> Laney: sorry for my behaviour
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews -> "Not suitable for the current release period". maybe we should discuss a different way.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Better than writing a wiki page I think would be to write mail to the ubuntu-devel mailing list so it can be discussed among developers.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: could you do this? ^^
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: ok, will do that on my todo list
<iulian> ScottL: Hi.  As an ubuntu-release delegate for Ubuntu Studio, could you please look at bug #606533?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606533 in lmms (Ubuntu) "Please merge lmms 0.4.7-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606533
<kklimonda> james_w: with bzr-builder, is it possible to use svn revision for bzr branch that is imported from svn as a rev no in package version?
<james_w> no
<bdrung_> kklimonda: there is a bug report for that
<bdrung_> kklimonda: bug #412722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 412722 in bzr-builder "Provide deb-version substitute {svn}" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412722
<kklimonda> bdrung_: thanks
<lfaraone> Is it okay to convert a package (which previously had no patch system) to 3.0 (quilt) in a SRU? ? that's what's used in the maverick version, and it'd just be cleaner than patching the source directly.
<bdrung_> lfaraone: in my opinion it's ok, because adding a patch system would require more changes.
<directhex> in my opinion you should average it out, and port the package to wig & pen format
<lfaraone> directhex: +1
<directhex> the funny thing about 3.0 (quilt) is that we're moving to using it in pkg-mono, for our pure git packaging work. 3.0 (git) would be much more sensible, if it hadn't been axed
<ScottK> lfaraone: For an SRU, just apply the changes inline if there is no patch system.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Since you're representing REVU requirements in the UDD discussions, I wanted to mention that from my POV REVU's killer feature is the ability to have multiple orig.tar.gz's that are different, but have identical version numbers and produce diffs from them.  AFAIK we don't have any other tools that currently deal with that.
<ajmitch> alright, do you have an example of that?
 * ajmitch wasn't really expecting the representation to be so formal, just happened to be watching IRC at the right time when there were questions about REVU
<ScottK> ajmitch: Basically a contributor uploads a package, the orig.tar.gz is screwed up, so they fix it and upload again.  We don't want them to have to change the upstream version number during the REVU process.
<ajmitch> ah right
<sladen> if you're working with somebody trying to get them to eg. +dfsg-ise something it's useful
<ajmitch> I was thinking more along the lines of multiple tarball support in a single package
<ScottK> ajmitch: That's going to hurt no matter how you do it.
<ajmitch> no doubt
<directhex> it already does. that means you, git-buildpackage!
<ajmitch> ScottK: what does REVu currently do with such packages where the orig.tar.gz has changed? From what I understand, it should at least handle unpackaging them already & the diff should still be generated
<ajmitch> though I'll probably need to test it out locally
<ScottK> ajmitch: That's correct.
<ScottK> I didn't look at the implementation, but I suspect it puts each one in a separate dir, unpacks, and diffs.
<ajmitch> that's right
<ajmitch> I just re-read your initial statement, I thought you were asking for an improvement to REVU there :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: No, I want to make sure we don't regress if we switch to some UDD way of doing things.
<ajmitch> Alright
<ajmitch> from what I've seen, sladen's example of having binary files in the upstream tarball is the most common
<ScottL> iulian, i will look at that bug tonight
<ajmitch> especially with directhex's friendly mono packages
<ScottK> ajmitch: That or they mistakenly rerolled the tarball with their /debian in it instead of having that in the diff.gz
 * ajmitch sees a lot of native packages, many with non-native versions
<ScottK> Yep.
<ajmitch> we're going to have to sort out what we're doing with the old (6+ months) packages on REVU soon
<ajmitch> just archiving them is one option, but we don't want to drive people away more than we have
<directhex> upload them all, to avoid alienation
<ajmitch> I've also seen a few cases of REVU being used as a place to dump packages which are being reviewed for debian
<lfaraone> ajmitch: I think REVU is mentioned on some Debian page.
<ajmitch> possibly
<directhex> doesn't mentors.debian.net suck? i can see the appeal of revu
<ajmitch> the case that I saw was someone mailing the DPMT list with the url pointing to REVU
<lfaraone> ajmitch: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=519752#10
<ubottu> Debian bug 519752 in wnpp "RFP: pysolfc -- A Python solitaire game collection" [Wishlist,Open]
<sladen> ajmitch: repoint them all at ARB ;-)
<ajmitch> yeah, same thing
<ajmitch> sladen: that's another point I have to raise :P
<sladen> ajmitch: given how awesome ARB is, it should have no problem coping
<ajmitch> sladen: your confidence is overwhelming
<lfaraone> personally, I'm still on the "why are we adding more processes?" side of the fence on the ARB.
<ajmitch> lfaraone: that was just one of the packages that I saw there, along with a few others by the same person
<lfaraone> ajmitch: well, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, right?
<ScottK> directhex: m.d.n serves a slightly different use case than REVU.  I agree it sucks for doing what REVU does.
<sladen> the /intent/ of ARB is excellent
<ajmitch> lfaraone: when they're uploaded with a debian version & various things which we'd need changed for uploading to ubuntu?
<sladen> the implementation will I'm sure need massaging
<lfaraone> ajmitch: I mean, there's nothing wrong with uploading a package targeted to Ubuntu on REVU.
<ScottK> sladen: It's defective by design at this point.
 * ajmitch is of the opinion that REVU should still eb the primary way of getting stuff in
<ajmitch> lfaraone: right, most of these are targetting debian, and sponsorship has been requested in debian - it's doubling up on work if it's checked & uploaded in 2 places
<ScottK> ajmitch: ARB will be great for the class of packages that are so great it's essential users get them right away, but still suck so bad we don't want to support them in Ubuntu.
<lfaraone> well, with m.d.n, the goal is not to publicly discuss and criteque packages, but rather to offer a simple way to get packages out there, with the real discussion happening via mail on the mentors list and privately.
<ScottK> lfaraone: Exactly.  That's the difference.
<lfaraone> ajmitch: are all REVU packages automatically marked for review?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-24
<ScottK> I think it's great if people use REVU for stuff aimed at Debian.
<ajmitch> lfaraone: what do you mean by automatically marked? they appear in one huge list on the front page which has packages dating back 18+ months
<sladen> ScottK: yes, precisely, this is FartApp, MooCow, UDS-NCalendarApp, SABDFLBuzzwordBingo etc
<ajmitch> ScottK: I think using REVU for debian is fine if they were clearly marked as such
<lfaraone> ajmitch: well, in m.d.n there's a "mark this package as looking for sponsorship"
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ajmitch> currently there's no way of saying that a package is being considered for debian first instead of ubuntu
<ScottK> ajmitch: I've seen people leave a comment to that effect.
<ajmitch> there's also the problem of new upstream versions on REVU, since it's not really a fast-moving process by any means
<ajmitch> ScottK: right, I want a separate section on REVU for these
<ajmitch> which means that I should just add it :)
<directhex> m.d.n does an awful job of connecting packagers to *relevant* sponsors. it doesn't matter so much in ubuntu w/ weak package ownership, but in debian, you need a sponsor who is relevant to your package - that sponsor may not be on m.d.n
<ScottK> the current 'official' process doesn't use REVU for new upstream versions, IIRC.
<ajmitch> directhex: it's more a convenient file hosting location
<ajmitch> sponsors should be sought separately from just uploading to m.d.n
<ajmitch> whereas with REVU it's meant to be mostly self-contained
<lfaraone> ajmitch: well, I've picked packages from the "needs sponsorship" list on m.d.n list before and uploaded them if they're error-free.
<ScottK> Shortly after I became a DD, I trolled through m.d.n looking for stuff to sponsor.  Didn't come up with much and didn't go back.
<ajmitch> lfaraone: right, it's not the common workflow from my experience, though I'm doing vague hand-waving on who does what
<ajmitch> darn, jono fled
<ajmitch> ScottK: so I expect you'll take our concerns & feedback to UDS with you?
<lfaraone> ajmitch: that's probably realistic, most DDs don't sponsor at all ::)
<ScottK> Sure.  I'll yell about that and everything else that's pissing me off.
<ajmitch> we'd expect no less
<ScottK> Any suggestions on a easy way to find out what thing recently ate several hundred megabytes of hard drive space?
<ajmitch> nothing obvious beyond du
<ajmitch> or baobab is a useful gnome tool that displays a graphical layout of disk usage, I'm sure there'll be a kde util for the same
 * ajmitch hopes 512MB RAM in a VM is enough to run REVU
<achiang> ScottK: i wrote a stupid script to sort the output of du -h into human readable form: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/499368/
<ScottK> achiang: Thanks.
<achiang> sure
<wgrant> ajmitch: REVU isn't LP.
<wgrant> So 512MB should be fine.
<wgrant> What're you doing to it?
<ajmitch> wgrant: I know, the only spare VM I had for it had a gnome desktop installed, so it's better to grab a new server iso
<ajmitch> playing around with separating out packages that are intended for debian, since people want to use it for that, and seeing if I can come up with a sane way of looking at branches on there
<ajmitch> plus whatever else annoys me at the time
<wgrant> Aha.
<ajmitch> wgrant: do you think you've got time to setup a new vm on stratos so we can play with having REVU on there?
<ajmitch> or is there documentation on the right way to do it on that host?
<wgrant> I can set up a new one, sure.
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> it may just make things a bit easier in future if we can be on lucid or more recent distros
 * freeflying 
<iulian> ScottL: Ta.
<bilalakhtar> back!
<blueyed> Do need bugfix-only things ubuntu-release ACK for universe? (I've just used requestsync). I guess so?! re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boinc/+bug/646932
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646932 in boinc (Ubuntu) "Sync boinc 6.10.58+dfsg-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<blueyed> Apparently it's ok like it is according to "For packages in universe that aren't seeded in any of the Ubuntu flavors, this final freeze is nominal; packages must be manually accepted by the archive admins, but no additional approval is required. " (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze)
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> Just make sure ubuntu-archive is subscribed and not just the release team.
<philsf> hi, I'm reading on quickly, and noticed the default template is for python. Is there a template for perl modules?
<lucidfox> The *default* template? So there are templates for languages other than Python?
<ScottK> I know someone is working on a vala template, but that's it AFAIK.
<lucidfox> :O
<lucidfox> Vala template? Awesome
<lucidfox> I just hope they don't use autotools :(
<ScottK> It was mentioned on p.u.c recently.
<lucidfox> Linky?
<lucidfox> I seem to have somehow missed it, even though I have Planet on RSS
<lucidfox> oh
<lucidfox> found it
<lucidfox> by Shane Fegan
<lucidfox> * Fagan
<lucidfox> BuildJ, hmmm
<philsf> lucidfox, I'm not even sure there are other templates in quickly
<sistpoty> bdrung_: are you taking care for the rebuilds in bug #645339? want me to start uploading a few?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645339 in webfav (Ubuntu) "Drop transitional and removed packages from Recommends" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645339
<kklimonda> lucidfox: autotools is still a better option then few others
<kklimonda> on the other hand Shotwell has a really nice, hand-written Makefile
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-25
<MTecknology> what's extras.ubuntu.com?
<kklimonda> MTecknology: new repository for post-release applications
<kklimonda> MTecknology: also see !extras :)
<persia> !extras
<ubottu> extras.ubuntu.com is an external !repo for new software made available after the Ubuntu release.  This repository is not part of the Ubuntu distribution and the software is completely unsupported by the Ubuntu team, but the original authors may offer some support.
<MTecknology> oh..
<MTecknology> cool
<MTecknology> awesome idea
<kklimonda> poor execution
<virtuald> how's it different from backports?
<kklimonda> virtuald: it's accepted by other team, applications aren't packaged by maintainers..
<virtuald> they're packaged by upstream maintainers?
<kklimonda> virtuald: I think the idea has been to provide a Quickly template (or rather use the current one)
<kklimonda> virtuald: afair upstream developers package their software, upload it to ppa and then application-review-board reviews them and ACKs (or not)
<persia> virtuald, The details are still being finalised, but I believe that extras packages are not expected to be part of the following release, as opposed to adding new packages in backports by adding them to the in-development release first.
<kklimonda> virtuald: and yes, it's quite similar to -backports
<virtuald> thank you for the answers :)
<persia> Well, it also differs from backports in that it can't contain anything already in the release normally.
<persia> I believe the main reason it's not actually just part of backports is that there is a bug in apt.
<kklimonda> persia: oh? what bug?
<persia> kklimonda, I'm not deeply familiar with the details, but something about not being able to set pinning in such a way that stuff from backports would get upgraded if the backports version was installed, but users wouldn't automatically be upgraded to backports versions if they hadn't selected it.
<persia> As long as that bug is there, people can only have backports turned on or turned off: there's no way to have only part of backports.  Since new applications are theoretically safer, it isn't as bad to have folks install new stuff (as long as it can be updated).
<kklimonda> persia: ah, yes - this is the biggest (if not the only) problem with -backports
<kklimonda> right
<persia> Mind you, there are other issues with how the new stuff is currently delivered, but I don't want to get into that discussion again just now.
<persia> kklimonda, Yeah.  backports hurts from it anyway, even without extras.
<persia> On the other hand, we can support software in backports, which makes me tend to prefer than means of delivery, despite the bug.
<persia> Anyway, need to go away from the computer.
<geser> persia: I use debian-backports with a pinning of 200 to get updates for packages from -backports on the Debian system I administer
<kklimonda> bah, I'm not up to this discussion two nights in a row.
<poolie> bye persia
<kklimonda> time to get some sleep :)
<persia> geser, I believe you.  I don't understand the details.  Ask mvo or ScottK
<kklimonda> geser: so how does it work? you can install package from -backports manually and it then gets updated when the new version is uploaded to -backports?
<geser> kklimonda: yes
<geser> kklimonda: see the last paragraph in http://backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=instructions
<kklimonda> geser: hmm, that sounds great.. but I cant think straight anymore (or even see) so I'll take my leave :)
<kklimonda> geser: thanks for the link
<ScottK> virtuald: It's for applications that are so essential for people to get that they can't wait for the next release, but also aren't good enough that we actually want them in Ubuntu.
<virtuald> aha
<ScottK> persia: The apt resolver issue would have taken far less effort to fix than what was required to create the new repository.  I don't believe that's the reason.
<ScottK> geser: The problem is that with just pinning there are issues when you need to pull dependencies from backports, IIRC.
<ScottK> Reading p.u.c, I find it interesting that AMIs of Ubuntu are apparently published by Canonical as a corporate entity and not as part of the Ubuntu project.
<wgrant> Which p?
<wgrant> planet
<wgrant> ?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> http://feeds.alestic.com/~r/alestic-planetubuntu/~3/kYDyWOzykY4/ec2-ami-canonical-t1micro
<ScottK> geser: I remember now.  The issue is that if a dependency is present in the main repo, but not in sufficient version, apt will consider it found the package, but not a high enough version and consider the backport uninstallable.  It never notices a higher version of the same package in the repository that's pinned down.
 * ScottK is now really away.
<MTecknology> ScottK: heh.. so if a package of mine winds up in extras, it means that I was whiny enough about it even though it might be a butt ugly package?
<YokoZar> lucidfox: uploaded a new Wine1.2 with that patch
<lucidfox> danke!
<lucidfox> now all that remains is to resolve the crash-on-Battle.net-login thing
<persia> ScottK, That was the reason that was given to me last time I asked (in May).  If that changed, the new reason would be interesting to me.  I suspect momentum and confusion rather than deliberation at work.
<debfx> ScottK: could you please have a look at these backport requests: bug #600321 and bug #647361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600321 in lucid-backports "Please backport gcc-3.3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600321
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647361 in lucid-backports "Please backport virtualbox-ose and virtualbox-guest-additions 3.2.8" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647361
<RainCT> DktrKranz: Hey. There's a pretty big bug in pbuilder-dist in the last u-d-t release. Do you want to upload a 0.104 to Debian so Ubuntu can sync again from there?
<DktrKranz> RainCT: d'oh :(
<sebner> DktrKranz: It's nice to be happy ...
<DktrKranz> sebner: shut up, Flanders :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: Silence! I k*ll you!
<DktrKranz> RainCT: are there other changes/bugs waiting to be fixed?
<RainCT> hey sebner :)
<sebner> hola RainCT :)
<RainCT> DktrKranz: Launchpad as 23 (o.O) open bugs, but I don't know if anyone is working on them
<RainCT> s/as/has
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: want to try it? :)
 * iulian looks around.
<jetienne> q. what is the maintainer script which is executed *after* the files are copied/installed, but before launching the daemon ? (it is a /etc/init.d daemon package)
<RainCT> jetienne: postinst. This is also where the daemon is launched.
<jetienne> RainCT: the daemon is launch before or after my debian/postinst ?
<RainCT> jetienne: it is the postinst which launches the daemon
<jetienne> we are looping :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: did you wrote an e-mail discuss about reviewing main by MOTU?
<jetienne> RainCT: i put stuff in my debian/postinst... and the daemon is started in some dh_helper scripts... my debian/postinst is before or after ?
<RainCT> jetienne: what package is that?
<jetienne> RainCT: neoip-router, thisis in my ppa
<geser> jetienne: depends if you put your code before or after the magic debhelper token
<jetienne> RainCT: experimentation seems to say /etc/init.d/neoip-router start is done before my debian/postinst
<RainCT> jetienne: The code to launch the daemon is added by dh_installinit to the postinst file in the place where it has #DEBHELPER#
<jetienne> oh
<RainCT> jetienne: if you open the .deb with file-roller and look inside the DEBIAN directory in there you can see what the maintainer scripts look like
<jetienne> i may have missed this #DEBHELPER#  :)
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: there is one merge proposal. should we include it before uploading?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: not yet.
<jetienne> RainCT: it looks like this is just me forgetting #DEBHELPER# all along. thanks a lot for your help
<RainCT> jetienne: No problem :)
<DktrKranz> bdrung_: I think tumbleweed's comment is valid, so it requires a little bit of extra-work
<tumbleweed> I couldn't test that merge proposal properly because I ran into a related bug while testing it. But it looks good (as I said)
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: ok. i am going to upload it.
<bdrung_> DktrKranz: done
<onkarshinde> cjwatson: Can you please reject libdvdread from queue. I will reupload it with the changes you recommended.
<leleobhz> im build a patched version of a mainstream package to use within my ppa and i this package comes from a git resource
<leleobhz> how can i update the git tree with packages like this
<leleobhz> (package is aiccu)
<ScottK> debfx: Approved.
<ScottK> persia: That was the reason give, but since the implementation path that was chosen was substantially more complex than the one that was not, I don't believe the choice was based on just technical merit.
<ScottK> superm1: Looking at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56440898/mythbuntu-live-autostart_0.49-0ubuntu1_0.50-0ubuntu1.diff.gz I don't see what the changes are the correspond to the changelog discussion about keep gstreamer out and updating artwork?
<debfx> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<bluefoxicy> so has anyone figured out why Thunderbird breaks when updated?
<bluefoxicy> like every single time since 10.04 was released I've updated it, it's gone into this cycle where displaying the message list causes it to eat infinite ram and I have to kill it or it'll grind my 4 gig machine to a halt
<bluefoxicy> eventually it behaves for unknown reasons
<bluefoxicy> then there's an update, and ... yeah, cycle repeats.
<jpds> Mozilla products are designed to be restarted when upgraded.
<bluefoxicy> jpds: Yeah, well I've restarted it about 30 times now since the last upgrade and switching into the messages tab causes it to grind to a halt as it loads a message
<bluefoxicy> this isn't "Close thunderbird and when you open it again it's fixed"
<bluefoxicy> this is "once you close thunderbird, it'll be broken when you open it with the new version"
<bluefoxicy> okay... closing it and removing compatibility.ini doesn't fix the problem either.
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: My kids are using it on 10.04 and haven't reported problems.
<jpds> TEST PASSED>
<bluefoxicy> mmap(NULL, 1048576, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f81cfa00000
<bluefoxicy> mmap(NULL, 1048576, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f81cf900000
<bluefoxicy> mmap(NULL, 1048576, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f81cf800000
<bluefoxicy> --- SIGTERM (Terminated) @ 0 (0) ---
<bluefoxicy> This is what's going on
<bluefoxicy> it runs that mmap in a loop forever, until terminated
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: I'd ask about it on #ubuntu-mozillateam.
<bluefoxicy> oh ok there's a team for this
<bluefoxicy> by the way I have an strace :|
<superm1> ScottK, artwork can't be represented in the diff.gz, it's in the orig.tar.gz.  the changes to modify which packages install are +            self.preseed('ubiquity/nonfree_package', 'flashplugin-installer') and a few other similar
<ScottK> superm1: Right, but I didn't see anything about gstreamer and that's in the changelog.
<ScottK> If you're confident it's what you wanted, I'll accept it, it just didn't quite seem to match.
<superm1> ubuntu-restricted-addons depends on gstreamer stuff, this is overriding the package that gets installed to not be ubuntu-restricted-addons
<ScottK> I see.  OK.
<ScottK> superm1: Accepted.
<superm1> thx
<ScottK> Thanks for explaining.
<superm1> you guys had the same problem with kubuntu, but it's fixed by using a similar code path in the kde frontend
 * ScottK nods.
<superm1> could you also take a look at the usb-creator?  I re-upped' without the backup.bzr from the branch upgrade
<tumbleweed> If I need to do a once-off deviation from debian (to bootstrap mit-schemes which BDs on itself through a compiler-rename) should I use -1build1 ?
<tumbleweed> I suppose that's misleading. /me doesn't do that
 * RainCT wonders what the difference between restricted-extras and restricted-addons is
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: around?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: about to go out
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: :( I would talk about bug in M-o-M
<ari-tczew> iulian: ping
<debfx> chrisccoulson: could you please have a look at bug #647484, I think those 2 packages just have to be added to ia32-libs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647484 in ia32-libs (Ubuntu) "20090808ubuntu5 breaks libpulsedsp.so" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647484
<chrisccoulson> debfx - heh, i had a feeling that once i'd done one ia32-libs upload, i would be doomed for life ;)
<ScottK> superm1: I looked at usb-creator and I feel a little out of my depth on that one.
<debfx> chrisccoulson: I just wanted to fulfill your expectations ;D
<superm1> ScottK, er you mean due to wearing different hats looking at it differently (release versus archive)?
<ScottK> superm1: I approved the FFe because it seems to make sense to get the feature in for this cycle, but I"m not comfortable with being that last set of eyes on the exact code changes.  I don't understand it well enough.
<RainCT> Ouch. I'm just trying out Unity for the first time and it does lots of weird stuff
<iulian> Blame... hmm.
<iulian> Maybe didrocks. :)
<RainCT> Heh. It looks like it doesn't like my graphics card (Intel; I'm getting artifacts in the panel and weird stuff), the left panel ignores half of my clicks, sometimes the background image of the top panel disappears.... :'(
<RainCT> Oh and it has no Alt+F2 which sucks big time :P
<RainCT> It looks like it'd be a pretty nice thing if it worked, though (disregarding the missing alt+f2)
<iulian> Ihhhh, no alt+f2?
<iulian> That really sucks indeed.
 * iulian hasn't used une yet.
<iulian> I'm sure there's an option somewhere to enable it.  Loads of people love the alt+f2 button.
 * RainCT wonders if Unity's global menu bar is the real reason why window buttons moved to the left
<superm1> alt-f2 was a feature of the gnome-panel itself i thought
<RainCT> superm1: True.
<iulian> Hmm.
<RainCT> Shell also implements it though. It's pretty simple.
<ScottK> RainCT: There's a new mesa snapshot in www.cooperteam.net/Packages from RAOF that should help.
<ScottK> (assuming you're on Maverick)
<RainCT> ScottK: thanks, giving it a try.
<RainCT> Not really seeing a change.
<savvas0> Hello, does anyone know if there is any chance to include in ubuntu 10.10 the carl9170 firmware in order to fix bug #540827 for some wireless atheros usb sticks?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540827 in linux (Ubuntu) "ar9170usb wifi module crash + instabile connection" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540827
<ScottK> savvas0: Barring emergencies, they've done the last kernel upload for Maverick.  They are now working on the first post-release update.  You might ask jfo on #ubuntu-kernel if that's something that might be considered for a post-release update.  I'm not sure if he'll be around on the weekend or not.
<savvas0> ok, thank you very much :) I'll probably check again on a weekday
<ScottK> You're welcome.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-26
<persia> superm1, Just as a reminder, if you're expecting artwork-changing patches, you may find newer debian source formats useful (as you can represent binaries in debian.tar.gz)
<superm1> persia, i'm actually tempted to just make it a native package
<persia> I've not looked at the package, but if there's insignificant real upstream code (>85% fork), that doesn't seem that bad to me (especially given the package name).
<superm1> it's written specifically for mythbuntu, so we're upstream
<persia> I don't like native packages for N reasons, but for things where it's already essentially distro-specific...
<persia> Yeah.  Note that I'm less happy about themes being native (which is, I believe, the discussion that led you guys to using all non-native packaging (hurrah)) because they can easily be used portably.
<superm1> it provides the hooks for the installer, slideshow, casper hooks and stuff like that - i really dont see it being used by another group in it's current form
<persia> Potentially dertivatives, but they don't matter in terms of the native/non-native debate.
<superm1> right
<nenolod> so like
<nenolod> what is the deal
<persia> with?
<nenolod> why do you people find the need to make unsupportable edits to audacious{-plugins}
<nenolod> now 2 clause BSD code is now "DFSG incompliant"
<nenolod> please rename it if you are going to do this stuff
<persia> I don't think there's a blanket reason, and I suspect most of us aren't likely to do that.
<nenolod> this happens with every ubuntu dev cycle
<persia> I can believe that.  I'm just less sure it's everyone.
<nenolod> it's bdrung specifically
<persia> bdrung_, Any comments?
<nenolod> he needs to just rename it
<nenolod> i'm trying to be as nice as i can, but i am pretty much fed up with this at this point
<persia> Or work directly with you guys, rather than distro-patching
<nenolod> also he seems to not understand the nature of the DFSG
<nenolod> asking for a --disable-foo option to disable the allegedly DFSG-incompliant building does not make the package DFSG compliant
<persia> I'm not currently having luck finding the change you're talking about from a quick glance at changelogs: would you mind referencing it more explicitly?
<nenolod> right now he is shipping vanilla source
<nenolod> and then removing the plugin
<nenolod> with a patch
<nenolod> thus the DFSG incompliant source is being shipped twice
<persia> That doesn't achieve DFSG-freeness
<nenolod> yes
<nenolod> it does not.
<persia> which package?
<nenolod> audacious-plugins
<nenolod> i guess i will have to add an option to disable audacious's branding
<nenolod> and then force ubuntu to use it
<nenolod> if this is how things will go
<persia> Why?
<persia> Please don't mistake the actions of one individual for the position of all developers of a distribution.
<persia> You were actively working on Ubuntu long enough to know how we do things.  This isn't some "Ubuntu hates nenolod" thing.
<wgrant> If the license clauses in the Debian bug are indeed real, it is clearly non-free.
<wgrant> But the removal method was insufficient, this is true.
<nenolod> the code in question is under 2 clause BSD.
<persia> Is src/psf the right place to be looking?  That seems to be largely GPL
<wgrant> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594519
<ubottu> Debian bug 594519 in audacious-plugins "audacious-plugins contains (non-free) MAME licensed code in the "psf2.so" plugin" [Serious,Open]
<nenolod> wgrant: i'm aware
<nenolod> wgrant: he is an idiot
<persia> wgrant, Thanks for the reference
<wgrant> nenolod: Feel free to file a bug, and please obey the CoC.
<wgrant> Perhaps the relevance of that license was misunderstood.
<persia> nenolod, we like to try to avoid statements that insult specific folk: please instead insult specific ideas.
<wgrant> In which case it needs to be clarified, which does not require personal attacks.
<nenolod> the code in question comes from highly experimental, which was released into BSD license.
<persia> It does seem that src/psf/* is also removed from the source.
<nenolod> period.
<wgrant> nenolod: Have you told anyone?
<nenolod> i'm just going to add technical measures to remove the audacious branding
<nenolod> it is easier
<persia> Why not sort the license confusion?
<nenolod> because this issue is just one of many and many that will happen in the future
<persia> If it's not MAME-licensed, then it's not.
<nenolod> and i've had enough
<wgrant> src/psf indeed does not appear in the orig tarball.
<nenolod> regardless, the mame license in this case is ERADICATED by the GPL code ANYWAY
<persia> Be nice if there was a README.source or mention in debian/copyright or debian/rules:get-orig-source indicating that.
<persia> nenolod, How is it eradicated?
<nenolod> regardless, the license was clarified from day one: "It's under the BSD license, mostly, but it uses code from PeOPS, so it's probably GPL."
<wgrant> That doesn't sound too clear to me.
 * wgrant checks the original source.
<nenolod> anyway
<nenolod> remove it
<nenolod> please for the love of god
<nenolod> just remove audacious
<persia> Why?
<nenolod> because you people make edits to it which are unsupportable
<nenolod> so call it something else
<nenolod> or remove it
<persia> Again, please complain about specific folks.  I don't believe I've ever made such an edit, and I have worked with you for many years to help make audacious *more* supportable.
<wgrant> I fail to see how removing a plugin of dubious legality makes it unsupportable.
<nenolod> well, please stop bdrung then.
<nenolod> wgrant: the audacious developers will not support modified source distributions, period.
<wgrant> What does "support" mean?
<nenolod> it means, among other things: /kickban $ubuntu-user
<wgrant> The latest changelog entry also suggests that it's now an upstream patch that is used to disable the plugin.
<nenolod> and advisement to build it from source.
<persia> Historically, lots of folks bug #audacious when they have issues with audacious on Ubuntu, and almost always for issues that are fixed upstream.
<persia> OK.  I think I understand.  Indeed, the entire psf plugin *MUST* be licensed GPL.
<persia> That said, the MAME code needs to be investigated to ensure it was received under a GPL license, and the headers probably need adjustment.
<nenolod> protip: it was
<nenolod> http://hg.atheme.org/release/audacious-plugins-2.4.x/release/audacious-plugins-2.4.x/rev/6a8df459ccce
<nenolod> there is your legal clarification
<persia> nenolod, Sure, but do you know how the MAME code was put into it in the first place?
<persia> It's clearly GPL now, so there's at least a text-bug in the headers.
<wgrant> src/psf/license.txt also says that the files are still MAME.
<persia> I believe the fear is that it was inappropriately relicensed.
<persia> wgrant, Indeed, but that must be wrong, because of GPL.
<wgrant> persia: Where does it say that they are GPL?
<persia> wgrant, In the various places nenolod referenced.  Also, they must be GPL to be linked and distributed with GPL.
<wgrant> persia: They must be, yes. But that doesn't mean that they are :(
<persia> Yes it does.
<persia> They are currently GPL.
<persia> That doesn't mean that someone didn't violate MAME at some point to make them GPL.
<wgrant> True.
<nenolod> permission was obtained years ago to use them under normal BSD license as part of highly experimental (which is now dead and was *closed source*)
<persia> nenolod, I believe you.  I'm just trying to find a documentation trail that can close 594519
<nenolod> there is none.
<persia> Ugh!
<nenolod> i can ask neill corlett, but that is probably not going to be productive
<persia> There's no commit message in a VCS saying they are BSD, or email somewhere, or old repo in the internet archive, or anything?
<nenolod> let me put it this way: the MAME people have not complained
<nenolod> they are aware of this
<nenolod> they have not complained
<nenolod> they do not care
<persia> That doesn't help my clients if I take a contract to ship Ubuntu on their device, and they want license guarantees, unfortunately.
<nenolod> then put audacious unmodified in multiverse and stop bastardizing it
<persia> I happen to like audacious, and want to be able to recommend it for such things.
<nenolod> or remove the branding
<persia> Can7t we just fix it?
<nenolod> fixing it requires taking our word for it.  you do not trust us.
<nenolod> so please:
<nenolod> - remove audacious
<nenolod> - change branding
<nenolod> - put it in multiverse
<nenolod> one of the 3
<persia> multiverse won't help if the code is really MAME: that would be a GPL violation, and require removal.
<wgrant> Licensing is not a "they do not care" matter.
<persia> I don't want to remove it, because I like it.
<persia> Changing branding is kinda pointless when we're just talking about some comments in a few source files.
<persia> I do trust you about it, but I need something I can show a lawyer, and I know they aren't allowed to just trust folk.
<nenolod> there are no comments in the source files
<nenolod> saying they are MAME
<nenolod> zero
<persia> Oh, this might be easier then.
 * persia looks harder
<nenolod> thusly, they are not declared as MAME.
<nenolod> in two of the files
<nenolod> there is a BSD license!
<persia> Would you mind commiting a change to src/psf/license.txt removing references to MAME licensing?
<nenolod> i removed that file
<nenolod> it's old
<persia> Excellent!
<nenolod> psx_hw.c is not even shipped in MAME...
<persia> MAME-licensed doesn't necessarily mean code in the MAME project.
<nenolod> neither is psx.c
<nenolod> yeah i know
<nenolod> psx.c is based on MESS, and was *gasp* written by the same guy who made highly experimental
<persia> And highly experimental was BSD?
<nenolod> highly experimental was proprietary
<nenolod> parts of the code was released to us under BSD for use in the plugin
<persia> Do you happen to have a copy of that release with the license announcement somewhere?
<nenolod> seeing as we have shipped it for years now
<nenolod> probably not
 * persia wishes licensing were easy
 * nenolod wishes that people would stop ruining audacious
<persia> Seems to be commit 62cc6d667119 that brought in some of the code.
<nenolod> yeah and?
<persia> nenolod, Hrm.  Annoyingly, it seems that the (now removed) psf/license.txt was added in the same commit that brought in many of the files in question, and claimed them as MAME at the time.
<nenolod> yeah whatever
<nenolod> please remove official branding
<persia> I'm highly motivated to fix the license problem.  I'm even motivated to try to reduce your perception that Ubuntu is causing you issues rather than an individual.  I'm not motivated to generate a large no-branding patch when there is a simpler licensing adjustment solution available.
<nenolod> what solution do you want?
<nenolod> you've already shipped this code for years.
<persia> I'm hoping to find some way to address the license issue.
<nenolod> has canonical gotten sued?
 * persia doesn't really care about specific counterparties
<nenolod> has any ubuntu user gotten sued?
<persia> And I don't know if anyone has been sued or not: that would be invisible to me.
<nenolod> PSF playback is a major reason why Ubuntu users use Audacious.
<nenolod> removing the plugin will make it appear as if it were a decision made by us.
<nenolod> this causes harm to us.
<persia> OK.  I'm feeling good.  324f950774cb has no PSF plugin.  62cc6d667119 adds it, the license.txt file, and GPL code linked against it.
<nenolod> i would just make audacious pop up a giant box saying Ubuntu has edited it and to leave us alone.
<nenolod> wrong.  324f950774cb does have a PSF plugin.
<nenolod> sexypsf.
<persia> Aha!  Thanks.
<nenolod> which is the same code basically
<nenolod> and that code is GPL!
<nenolod> anyway
<nenolod> i would just make audacious pop up a giant box saying Ubuntu has edited it and to leave us alone, but you guys would just patch it out.
<nenolod> so that seems futile.
<persia> Indeed.  Better to try to sort it.  My goal here is to find something to make 594519 go away, which is a Debian bug, so not even specific to Ubuntu.
<nenolod> anyway, SexyPSF is illegal
<nenolod> because
<persia> The sexypsf code looks very similar, and even has a GPL psx HW C file (although a slightly different implementation).  But it has none of the files claimed as MAME-licensed.
<persia> because?
<nenolod> PCSX/SexyPSF are based on FPSE.
<persia> And FPSE is?
<nenolod> FPSE is an Amiga emulator which was released under a MAME-like license.
<persia> Ah, right.  Yes.
<nenolod> MESS's emulation code is also based on FPSE.
<persia> Is that why there is the claim that psx.c might be MAME-licensed?
<persia> Or did smf write it on top of MESS from scratch, rather than as part of MESS (in highly experimental)?
<nenolod> smf?
<persia> smf is the claimed author of psx.c according to the header comment in the file.
<nenolod> smf rewrote psx.c for MESS to remove the FPSE code
<persia> That explains some of the comments.
<nenolod> which comments in particular?
<nenolod> Farfetch'd was the author of FPSE, fwiw
<persia> Just some of the inline ones that explain why a choice was made in more detail than I often see (which is more common when one is white-box-rewriting, and someone is translating code -> human language -> code)
<nenolod> so really, it's just psx.c that is questionable, and since there is no copyright declared on it for anyone...
<nenolod> "smf" could be anyone
<persia> So, I think we have two ways to address this: 1) dig through the myriad history of all the individual bits of code, 2) accept the word of the committer of 62cc6d667119 that license.txt was a mistake in the first place, and ensure that is documented in a way to close 549519.
<nenolod> so it would be thrown out of a court.
<persia> Yeah, that's the issue I'm encountering trying to deal with method 1)
<persia> Would you be up for being counterparty in case option 2 was ever questioned?
<nenolod> psx.c was never shipped in MESS or MAME too
<nenolod> sure
<nenolod> license.txt refers to a lot of files not even shipped in audacious anyway
<persia> Excellent.  let me see if I can find some good boilerplate for GPL-conversion as a suggested patch into src/psf/README that lets us do that.  If there is someone who warrants it as GPL, we ought be OK to close the bug in Debian, and thus get the plugin back in Ubuntu.
<nenolod> i don't want to warrant that code as GPL, just 2-clause BSD.
<nenolod> the binary is GPL, that code itself is not.
<persia> nenolod, And thanks a lot for helping me understand the license mess, although I know you'd rather we could just ship stuff.
<persia> Ah, OK.  I may have to create a two-clause BSD warrant text (I've only seen GPL warrants), but I ought be able to get something acceptable (although there's no way I can get review-by-counsel on that soon)
 * persia starts hunting, hoping to find pre-reviewed text
<nenolod> i will just rewrite psx.c
<nenolod> again!
<nenolod> persia: fine warrant it as GPL
<nenolod> persia: nobody involved in the writing of that code cares
<nenolod> hmm.  the psx.c in highly experimental is different
<nenolod> and has BSD license text
<nenolod> i'll just replace it and hammer it in
<persia> Oh, cool.
<persia> I'm just filling in file names for the warrant now, but anything you can make not need the warrant reduces the chance of anyone ever exercising it.
<persia> The following is not legal advice: I believe that the placement of http://paste.ubuntu.com/500733/ in src/psf/ somewhere is sufficient to cause 62cc6d667119 to demonstrate appropriate licensing, and highly suspect that any later additions or changes to that tree are encoded in the VCS in such a way that further questions can be resolved fairly simply.
<nenolod> http://hg.atheme.org/audacious-plugins/audacious-plugins/rev/39017467ba7c
<persia> Sorry to get your email wrong.
<persia> And it's not about making Ubuntu happy: it's about fixing the Debian bug.  Really, it's not all us.
<persia> (and the next two commits are very nice indeed)
<nenolod> osd_cpu.h is trivial
<nenolod> there's nothing there that can be copyrighted
<nenolod> it's just a data structure and some bitshift macros
<persia> I just copied the names of the files added in the commit that didn't have clear license identification in the 2-year old commit.
<persia> If you don't think it's copyrightable, or don't want to extend a warrant, change it.
<persia> I believe that by removing the file quoted in the Debian bug, and doing some of the code cleanup you've been doing, the Debian bug should go away.
<persia> And then we should inherit the right code to ship something you want.
<nenolod> i think now we can just put public domain notice on psx.[ch]
<nenolod> now that the mame framework is *gone*
<nenolod> because, effectively without any identifiable copyright holders it is public domain
<persia> Unfortunately not.  And in several jurisdictions, there is no public domain.
<persia> Safer to claim BSD for it, with untraceable rightsholders.
<persia> That said, if you do strip it, and declare it public domain, you're no more or less likely to be sued.
<persia> The important bit is really that you're claiming something that is DFSG-compatible, so Debian can feel comfortable, so we don't have to carry a huge diff from Debian to ship your unmodified tarball.
<nenolod> hmm
 * nenolod puts it under 2 clause BSD license then
 * nenolod kills license.txt as it's no longer needed.
<nenolod> persia: http://hg.atheme.org/audacious-plugins/audacious-plugins/file/f840da0958a1/src/psf/psx.c seems acceptable
<persia> I'd probably replace "code that is contested will be rewritten" with "distributors are amenable to any compatible solution, from relicensing to removal of the code (in which case it will be implemented differently)."
<persia> Just in case you get someone from some jurisdiction that must file a motion to resolve anything, but wants an amicable resolution.
<persia> I don't see anything obviously wrong with that, but I can't speak for Debian legal, so I can't be sure they would accept it.
<nenolod> i don't care
<nenolod> i will just add --disable-official-branding
<nenolod> then debian can ship audweasel or some nonsense
<persia> Let's try with what you have first.
<persia> Just reply to 549519 with a notice that you've resolved the licensing issues upstream, and you'd much prefer that the plugin be shipped.
<nenolod> i don't care about debian
<nenolod> i used to, but then they pulled a tech-ctte
<persia> What happened?
<nenolod> i stopped paying attention
<persia> I suppose we could try to fix Ubuntu-only, but it's a lot more work that way.
<nenolod> basically somebody who doesn't know how to write assembler brought lilo back from the grave and demanded debian keep shipping it
<nenolod> politics won over QA sanity.
<persia> My philosophy with things like that is "You can maintain that, if you want.  I'll keep telling folks not to use it."
<nenolod> except that the person in question was not capable of maintaining it
<nenolod> his idea of maintenance was applying more broken patches from fedora (which *gasp* dropped lilo a long time ago)
<persia> So?  If I don't use it, and nobody I care about uses it, I don't have to care.
<persia> We still have lilo in Ubuntu.  No idea if anyone uses it.
<nenolod> yeah i basically just said "fuck it" and walked away from that discussion
<persia> Ah, seems we still have *your* lilo in Ubuntu, and not this new one you're talking about.
<nenolod> the tech-ctte may do whatever it pleases
<persia> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<nenolod> my understanding is that they aren't accepting lilo uploads from *anyone* right now
<nenolod> except for NMUs
<nenolod> but hey i switched to extlinux
<persia> Yeah.  Anyway, back to the current issue, which is soluable.  Would you file a bug against Ubuntu asking for PSF to be enabled as licensing has been resolved upstream, which I can use to leverage the Debian bug?
<nenolod> i am just closing that debian bug
<nenolod> if that guy reopens it
<nenolod> well
<nenolod> he does so at his own risk
<persia> nenolod, Thanks for chasing the Debian bug directly.
<nenolod> if bdrung uploads something removing it...
<nenolod> i will be doing more yelling and screaming.
<persia> The opposite is preferred :)
<persia> bdrung_, Would you mind pulling the (fixed) audacious-plugins upstream source, and restoring PSF?
<nenolod> 2.4.1 will be published later.
<persia> That makes it even easier
<nenolod> cool.  found the troll on OFTC.
<micahg> does a package synopsis need a UIF exception?
<persia> What is a "package synopsis"?
<micahg> persia: short description
<micahg> shows in Software Center
<persia> I thought Software Center showed the long description.  Anyway, I'd strongly recommend checking with the translation and documentation teams, just in case.  If they don't care about the package, then it's probably fine.  if they do, you will save them loads of pain by coordination.
<persia> Probably worth a bug to track the desired change, and collect opinions, etc.
<persia> Difference between that and a formal UIFe isn't much, really.
<micahg> persia: this started with a bug and since I"m doing an upload I thought I'd fix it
<micahg> bug 636014
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 636014 in flashgot (Ubuntu) "xul-ext-flashgot Enhances: thunderbird but synopsis mentions only Firefox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636014
<persia> still, string changes, and *especially* string changes that end up on images or in default documentation (You don't happen to maintain anythign installed by default, right? :)) should be confirmed with folk who may have to do rework to adjust to the changes.
<micahg> persia: heh, I know about those (this is a universe package w/out a Task)
<persia> They'll likely say "Go ahead" then :)
<micahg> persia: is there a channel or list?/
<persia> Packages without tasks aren't really procedurally different than packages without tasks, except most folk don't really care because they aren't well tested, well documented, etc.
<persia> Both, for both.
<persia> #ubuntu-docs, ubuntu-docs@, #ubuntu-translators, ubuntu-translators@ (from memory: please verify, lists.ubuntu.com/archive/list and /cs info #channel are your tools) (/list and lists.ubuntu.com/ are both incomplete, for complex technical reasons)
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: ping
<onkarshinde> Is there anyone who deals with xvidcore on regular basis?
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: could you give the lintian command which you use for REVU?
<persia> ari-tczew, I strongly recommend `lintian -iIEv --pedantic *.changes`: not everyone uses it, and not every result from that is necessarily applicable to a given package, but it all merits thought.
<ari-tczew> persia: look @ http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8645 -> 2nd bdrung's comment
<ari-tczew> your command didn't gave his results :(
<persia> You ran my command on both source and binary .changes files?
<persia> The latest comment looks like output from a binary .changes file.
<ari-tczew> persia: how from binary .changes file?
<persia> One uses sbuild or pbuilder to generate binary .changes, and one runs lintian against it.
<ari-tczew> persia: I use pbuilder
<persia> OK.  Use pbuilder.  Generate a binary .changes file (if this isn't obvious, ask someone else who uses pbuilder how to do it)
<ari-tczew> persia: I'll leave a message to bdrung_ how he doing a lintian check.
<persia> ari-tczew, How do you do lintian checks?
<persia> Really, the specific way someone else does them isn't so important.  The important thing is that you do them well.
<tumbleweed> doesn't pbuilder create binary .changes by default?
 * persia thought so
<ari-tczew> persia: in directory where I have a source package: lintian -iIEv --pedantic changes_file <- it's example
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: do you mean ~/pbuilder/ directory?
<tumbleweed> do I need to request release team permission to downgrade a library (with a single rdepend which isn't building because the library is too new)?
<persia> OK.  Now try that on the place where you have the binary package.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I don't use pbuilder-dist
<ari-tczew> I use pbuilder-dist
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: you don't need to be in that directory, you just need to point it at the .changes file
<persia> tumbleweed, If the library or an rdepend shows up on any of the images, it's best practice.
<tumbleweed> persia: it's iulib, the dependancy is ocropus - won't show up on any ISOs
<tumbleweed> s/dependancy/rdepend/
<persia> tumbleweed, In cases like that, I usually just upload it.  Take care to be very clear in your changelog entry: the release team has to manually approve each upload, and if they haven't given prior approval, they will want not to have to have deep thoughts.  Mind you, don't go overboard: changelog entries need to be interesting to endusers.
<tumbleweed> :)
<ari-tczew> persia, tumbleweed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/500903/
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: binary .changes = _amd64.changes / _i386.changes
<persia> ari-tczew, What architecture do you use?
<persia> (_powerpc.changes, _armel.changes work too )
<tumbleweed> persia: I doubt he uses PPC / armel :P
<persia> Why?  Lots of folk use PPC, and some use armel.
<sebner> persia: how do you define lots? Especially compared to 386 and amd64 :P
 * sebner waves at persia btw =)
<persia> sebner, I know of several members of the development community who only use powerpc, and there are thousands of folks not part of the development community who do so.
<persia> That said, I don't know of anyone who *only* uses armel: most folk seem to also have something else.
<persia> This may change as the number of armel desktops and laptops increases.
<tumbleweed> persia: probably getting rarer though. Not much consumer PPC hardware these days
<ari-tczew> persia: i386
<persia> tumbleweed, "not much"?  I can't find *any* except the IBM workstations (and I'm not sure those are really "consumer").  Most of the powerpc stuff I used to see has been replaced by MIPS.
<tumbleweed> persia: :) I thoght there ware still a fair amount of embedded stuff
<persia> ari-tczew, OK.  You want to run `lintian -iIEv --pedantic clementine_0.5.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes`  pbuilder should give you this .changes file.
<ari-tczew> persia: yea, that's work! thanks!
<persia> tumbleweed, Mostly high-end "embedded" from what I can tell.  Stuff like routers, switches, telephony interchanges, etc.  Also lots of automotive/industrial control systems.
<ari-tczew> btw. why this command won't show warnings on source .changes file?
<persia> Because there are diffferent issues with source packages and binary packages.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: look at the files listed in the .changes file. The source.changes only lists the source package. The binary .changes can list source or not (depending on how it was generated)
<persia> There's no way lintian can know in advance what happens when you build a binary.
<ari-tczew> anyway, thanks for help. now I can fix lintian alone. thanks again tumbleweed and persia
<persia> ari-tczew, Remember, the goal is to strive for perfect packaging, not to make lintian happy.  You can make a package that meets every lintian guideline and is broken.  You can also make a package that disagrees with lintian in several ways that is perfect.
<tumbleweed> (in the latter case, putting in some lintian overrides is probably sensible)
<persia> Depends on the issue, but probably :)
<persia> That said, adding lintian overrides is usually the wrong way to resolve lintian issues.
<ari-tczew> conclusion, lintian sometimes is our enemy, like trojan horse :)
<tumbleweed> normally not, though
<persia> lintian is a set of test cases.  Sometimes one needs to fix the code to comply with the test.  Sometimes one finds the test doesn't actually test what one thinks it tests.
<tumbleweed> and sometimes the test is to catch people doing something unusual by mistake, but you aren't doing it by mistake
<persia> Especially with -E and --pedantic :)
<shadeslayer> hi, id like to move a package from multiverse to universe
<shadeslayer> would it be possible?
<shadeslayer> the package is kplayer
<persia> shadeslayer, Yep.  Just fix the license :)
 * persia looks
<shadeslayer> persia: its in debian main, and the license is GPL 3
<persia> 1:0.7-0.5ubuntu1 is current?
<shadeslayer> yes, ive just uploaded 1:0.7-2ubuntu1+ppa1 to my ppa
<shadeslayer> persia: https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/kde-extra
<persia> Did debian/copyright get populated?
<shadeslayer> yes
<shadeslayer> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/500928/
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<bilalakhtar> persia: does such a change require the intervention of an AA or a MOTU can do it?
<persia> shadeslayer, Looks clean to me.  File a bug asking for it to be in universe.  Confirm with the release team.
<persia> bilalakhtar, It requires an archive-admin to do it, but they will likely do so on request from any member of ubuntu-dev who can upload the package in question.
<shadeslayer> persia: ScottK asked me to fix it, i fixed it, since hes not here, i thought maybe someone here can do it
<persia> shadeslayer, I'm hoping that can be you :)
<shadeslayer> persia: i mean.. someone who can upload to universe :P
<shadeslayer> i didnt know it needed a AA to move it tho
<persia> Right.
<ari-tczew> what is AA?
<persia> So there's two things needing doing: the updated merge and the AA bug.
<persia> ari-tczew, archive-admin
<persia> shadeslayer, Please file a bug requesting the component change, and one of us can ACK it.
<shadeslayer> ok
<shadeslayer> persia: ^^ :P
<shadeslayer> also bug 648103
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 648103 in kplayer (Ubuntu) "Please move kplayer from multiverse to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/648103
<persia> There's a fair bundle of differences between 0.7-0.5ubuntu1 and 0.7-2ubuntu1 :(
<shadeslayer> persia: all packaging changes really
<shadeslayer> none of them new features
<persia> heh, all changes are packaging changes in that sense.  You've at least 5 source patches being changed.
<shadeslayer> persia: well kubuntu_01_fixdocbook fixes a FTBFS
<persia> And there's a fix for Debian bug #565123 in there as well.
<ubottu> Debian bug 565123 in kplayer "kplayer: crashes every time when closing it" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/565123
<shadeslayer> yus
<persia> Would you be comfortable with 0.7-2ubuntu1+ppa1 going in as 0.7-2ubuntu1?
<shadeslayer> persia: of course
<persia> Also, in future, you might want to use something like -2ubuntu0+ppa1 so that folks will be upgraded to -2ubuntu1 when it is released.
<persia> shadeslayer, Are you comfortable with me mangling the changelog to sponsor it?
<shadeslayer> i had to add +ppa1 because for 0.7-2ubuntu1 i made a mistake in the changelog
<shadeslayer> persia: sure
<shadeslayer> persia: should i file a bug against the merge? or is not required?
<persia> |If you're working in a PPA, use of +ppa is a *good* thing.  I just always recommend folks use ...ubuntu0+ppa... when preparing a merge, so that the main archive version overrides it.
<persia> shadeslayer, The bug would only be to request me to upload it: in this case, it makes it harder for me.
<persia> Mind you, I usually recommend the sponsor queue, but I have the source here anyway because I was investigating the licensing.
<shadeslayer> alright :D
<shadeslayer> anyways  i use those PPA's for testing...
<persia> I figured,  I strongly recommend you start with ...ubuntu0+ppa... if you're expecting users to use your packages and for them to end up in Ubuntu.
<persia> Right now, anyone who has your PPA package installed won't be switched to the one I upload, which may confuse things if they are using pinning.
<shadeslayer> right ...
<shadeslayer> ill keep that in mind from next time :)
<persia> That's when it might be useful :)  Nothing you can do with this one anymore.
<bdrung_> nenolod, persia: i am back. i am read the log now.
<persia> bdrung_, quick summary: nenolod investigated the offending MAME-licensed files, and has found that they aren't used (and removed them), or has other licensing.  We can restore PSF with a new upstream (which will be released RSN)
<persia> s/has/have/
 * persia dislikes epochs even more than usual
<persia> shadeslayer, Just as a historical note: I believe kplayer was originally in multiverse because it was sync'd from Christian Marillat's repo.
<shadeslayer> persia: from debian-multimedia you mean?
<persia> Yeah :)
<shadeslayer> ah ok :D
<persia> Back in the Hardy development cycle, we synced from just about everywhere we could imagine, just to get the latest stuff.  Turned out, we couldn't actually maintain things like that.
<bdrung_> nenolod, persia, wgrant: the usf plugin is removed since audacious 2.3-1 (due to  src/usf/x86_fpu.c) and psf is removed since 2.4.0-0ubuntu1. I had to repack the source to not include those two plugins. I removed the usf plugin because of Debian bug #594519. Some of the questions files didn't had a license header and src/psf/license.txt claimed that they were MAME license (which is not DFSG compliant). Thanks to persia for sorting this issue wi
<bdrung_> th nenolod.
<ubottu> Debian bug 594519 in audacious-plugins "audacious-plugins contains (non-free) MAME licensed code in the "psf2.so" plugin" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/594519
<shadeslayer> yeah happens when you want loads of new stuff :P
<bilalakhtar> ubottu supports debian bugs?
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<persia> bilalakhtar, Lots of bugs.
<bilalakhtar> cool
<bilalakhtar> thanks to jussi :)
<shadeslayer> bilalakhtar: kde ones as well :P
<yofel> what do I need to get the branch with the fix for bug 614067 uploaded to maverick? (universe)
<yofel> the package needs a rebuild
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614067 in lincity-ng (Ubuntu) "lincity-ng links against uninstallable libphysfs-1.0.so.0" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614067
<JontheEchidna> yofel: I can sponsor it
<yofel> thx :)
<JontheEchidna> yofel: Uploaded, thanks for your contribution :)
<yofel> thanks for uploading
<JontheEchidna> I don't think I've played the -ng variant of lincity... might have to give it a shot once the rebuild builds
<bluefoxicy> Lincity:  Build your very own city once you build your very own binary...
<nenolod> bdrung_: we have communicated with the author of psx.c and are awaiting an official statement placing the file under BSD license
<nenolod> bdrung_: it is safe to continue redistribution
<nenolod> bdrung_: ubuntu shouldn't ship usf due to non-portability anyway
<bdrung_> nenolod: while we are at the license files: we don't ship the usf plugin because src/usf/x86_fpu.c (and maybe others) are not DFSG compliant. are there any plans to change that?
<bdrung_> nenolod: audacious/src/libaudacious++/plugin.h -> Can you replace "[insert GPL license here later]" with the gpl license?
<bdrung_> nenolod: should i wait for the 2.4.1 release to get the psf plugin back?
<crimsun> arg
<cemc> h
<cemc> :)
<crimsun> would an archive admin please reject my upload of wireshark_1.2.11-1ubuntu0.1?
<crimsun> (or maybe it'll automatically be rejected)
<crimsun> ok, the latest /maverick/ upload is good.
<nenolod> 15:11:40 <bdrung_>  nenolod: audacious/src/libaudacious++/plugin.h -> Can you replace "[insert GPL license here later]" with the gpl license?
<nenolod> LOL
<nenolod> that file hasn't even been shipped since 2006
<bdrung_> ok, i only checked the source tarball
<bdrung_> nenolod: do you have a release schedule for 2.4.1? it would be nice if we could ship 2.4.1 in maverick (including the psf plugin).
<nenolod> bdrung_: no because due to us cowtowing to you we messed it up
<nenolod> bdrung_: thanks for that
<nenolod> bdrung_: general opinion is, at this point, to just toss that code because it's not very good.
<nenolod> bdrung_: upse engine is better.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-19
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> tumbleweed, I guess with bdmurray_'s script running, we can close bug 782112?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 782112 in ubuntu-sponsoring "Add table for Operation Cleansweep" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782112
<ScottSanbar> `/window 15
<Laney> dholbach: that script only deals with debdiffs, not just any patch (so it would still be useful)
<Laney> also how well has the script been working from the sponsors side?
<dholbach> oh ok
<Laney> has it been annoying or useful?
<dholbach> I think it's been useful
<dholbach> at least the bugs I came across were successfully identified
<tumbleweed> dholbach: yeah, I agree with Laney (but good to hear that the debiff script was useful)
<dholbach> ok, so I'll leave the bug open
<dholbach> (and assigned to you :-P)
<gnomefreak> anyone know if we need console-terminus ntfsprogs. They have been wanting to be removed for a while now.
<cjwatson> they have both been removed from the oneiric archive
<cjwatson> oh, ntfsprogs hasn't
<cjwatson> but anyway, ntfs-3g supersedes it
<cjwatson> you can safely remove both if you're running oneiric
<gnomefreak> cjwatson: thanks
<micahg> can anyone actually get mk-build-deps -ir to work?
<Laney> -i -r
<Laney> also sudo
<micahg> Laney: ah, ISTR the changelog saying -ir hence the confusion
<Laney> cannae remember
<PeaceMaker> Hey, anyone please help me with Unity on Ubuntu 11.04 server?
<PeaceMaker> Can I install unity after I install the server version?
<PeaceMaker> With command "sudo aptitude install ubuntu-desktop", like the way in pre-unity versions?
<cjwatson> yes
<PeaceMaker> Ouch, I should have asked in the general channel :)
<jtaylor> can I do remote debugging with pbuilder-dist arm chroot?
<jtaylor> figured it out
<blackz> hi people
<ScottK> Hello blackz.
<ScottSanbar> I have createda  hello app (not Gnu Hello) but the launchpad recipe build does not contain the binary and man page files.  Using debuild on my PC works fine: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80346820/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.hello_1.0-0~12~natty1_BUILDING.txt.gz  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~scott-sanbar/hello/main/files
<ScottSanbar> First link above is the recipe build log, second are my branch files in launchpad for the project
<uiea> hello
<ScottK> ScottSanbar: #launchpad is a much better place to ask about recipe builds.
<ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Thanks, and how are you?  That is the first place I went and #ubuntu-packaging as well, but got nothing, so after a while came here.  Nothing in any of the three places at all after a good while now.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> shadeslayer knows a lot about recipes, I think.
<ScottSanbar> OK, is there a way I can find out if he is on a freenode channel and if so which one without knowing at first, like a query?  I use irssi.
<cjwatson> /whois shadeslayer
<cjwatson> but I can't help noticing that he's on *this* channel ;-)
<cjwatson> (/names, or tab-complete)
<tumbleweed> I don't think this problem is recipe-related. Your debian/rules doesn't have a #!/usr/bin/make -f shebang
<ScottSanbar> cjwatson: he appears to be gone on every channel I have checked so far ...
<cjwatson> away state is channel-independent
<cjwatson> (obviously.  if he's not at his computer, he's not at his computer on any channel.)
<ScottSanbar> cjwatson:  Ok, thanks
<cjwatson> but IRC is asynchronous.  ask question now, expect answer later :)
<ScottSanbar> tumbleweed: ok, thanks - I'll give it a shot.
<ScottSanbar> cjwatson:  yes, its been a while since I put up the questions.  I may need to repost them again after a while so they will be on people's screens ...
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: the build log shows it running through the normal dh sequence
<ScottSanbar> ajmitch: what does that mean?
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: that's a point, I saw the 4: %:: not found and got distracted by that
<ajmitch> that it ought to be fine, I don't think the absence of a hello.install file should matter for a single-binary package
<ScottSanbar> tumbleweed:  I was wondering about those warnings as well, but found nothing with google
<tumbleweed> my best bet for that is the shebang, but I don't have time to sit down and look at this now, sorry. /me -> bed
<ScottSanbar> tumbleweed:  Thanks for your help - I will try the shebang very soon.  Right now I go out with my son to eat - a special occasion for me!
<ScottSanbar> ajmitch:  How does the package look overall?  It is just a learning exercise for me, not something that will ever be published, so I would welcome feedback on it.
<ScottSanbar> cjwatson: CC:
<cjwatson> I haven't looked at it, sorry, this was just drive-by IRC commentary
<ScottSanbar> cjwatson: oh,ok - no problem.  Thanks for your help.
<ajmitch> ScottSanbar: sorry, haven't taken much of a look at it beyond that, though there's nothing that jumps out at me as being wrong
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-20
<ScottSanbar> ajmitch: Thank you for your comments.
<micahg> wgrant: ubuntuwire FTBFS page hasn't updated in 4 hours
<dholbach> good morning
<philipballew> good morning
<Rhonda> huhm. debuild -S -sa does run lintian too â¦  And when uploading to PPA I do want to avoid that for every. single. release.
<Rhonda> dpkg-source -b on the other hand doesn't generate me a .changes file â¦
<Rhonda> Also, when doing source packages for different releases, is there a way that it doesn't extract the orig.tar.bz2 every single time and clean it up afterwards? With wesnoth this is cumbersome i/o wise.  %-/
<Rhonda> ah, --no-lintian for the first question
<Rhonda> *sigh*
<Rhonda> $ debuild -S -sa --no-lintian
<Rhonda> debuild: unknown dpkg-buildpackage/debuild option: --no-lintian
<Rhonda>  dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S -sa --no-lintian
<Rhonda> dpkg-buildpackage: unbekannte Option oder Argument --no-lintian
<Rhonda> Why does man debuild document --no-lintian if that doesn't work??
<arand> Rhonda: Does it need to be stated before dpkg-bp options?
<Rhonda> arand: doesn't state so in the manpage, but I'll try
<arand> Rhonda: Hmm, didn't seem to work for me that or the initial way either...
<Laney> it says debuild [debuild options] [dpkg-buildpackage options]
<Rhonda> ahyes. accepted, but dput giving error
<arand> Hmm, rather, that flag didn't work with git-buildpackage, does with debuild though, as noted.
<Laney> Rhonda: re cleaning: does -nc do what you want?
<Rhonda> No.
<Rhonda> A source build extracts the upstream source into a temporary directory, and afterwards deletes that again
<Rhonda> -nc is about calling debian/rules clean, not about the temporary orig source extraction directory
<geser> ah for the creation of the diff.gz (or debian.tar.gz) probably
<geser> you could try to edit the release name in the .diff.gz (or debian.tar.gz) too and run only dpkg-genchanges -S afterwards
<Laney> then I suppose the question is asking whether you can keep one unpacked copy of the orig.tar.whatever between source package builds
<Rhonda> Laney: Exactly that, yes.
<Rhonda>   Uploading wesnoth-1.9_1.9.9-1~ppa1_source.changes: 550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
<Rhonda> Is such an error message common these days?
<Rhonda> I receive a mail that it was accepted nevertheless
<geser> Rhonda: yes
<Laney> it tries to verify at dput time
<Laney> but fails to do so
<geser> I see questions about this now and then, I assumed it got fixed by now but apparently not
<cjwatson> It's not universal but not unheard of; somebody did explain to me what the problem was but it leaked out of my ears.  Maybe a bug in the LP keyserver?
<geser> I remember something about communication issues between the ftp server (process) and the keyserver
<Laney> does it only happen for ftp uploads?
<Laney> I use SFTP which may explain why I've never seen it
<geser> I don't know if the sftp server does also this check or only the ftp one
<Laney> uh, muscle memory
<Laney> so used to bcc-ing control@bdo that I typed it instead of the mailing list I wanted to reply to (even after I said in the body that I was redirecting to said list)
<Rhonda> I don't see the overhead need in sftp when the authorization and integrity is checked through the gpg signature. :)
<Rhonda> Pending (2505) - is the 2505 the score or the queue place?
<geser> the score
<Rhonda> Is there a way to see the queue? :)
<Rhonda> Or does the score raise over time?
<Laney> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores https://launchpad.net/builders
<Laney> I don't know if you can see the details of the queue though
<geser> I don't know of a way to see the queue either (only to see which packages needs building but not the order)
 * Rhonda is looking at https://launchpad.net/~rhonda/+archive/wesnoth-devel/+builds
<cjwatson> I believe one of the points of sftp was that it let Launchpad know whom to spam with reject mail even if there's no GPG signature
<cjwatson> and that it can be easier to get through firewalls
<cjwatson> or NAT anyway
<Laney> hrm
<Laney> can I make debuild/dpkg-buildpackage use a separate build area like git-bp can do?
<Rhonda> â¦ and that ftp has to die. :)
<Rhonda> hmm. I wonder how long a score of 2505 can take to do its job â¦
<cjwatson> Rhonda: that sounds like a fairly neutral score for a package
<cjwatson> there's a description of the scoring algorithm somewhere on help.launchpad.net I think
<Rhonda> Laney handed me a link
<shadeslayer> ScottSanbar: was your query solved? Or do you need any assistance with recipes?
<Rhonda> duh
<Rhonda> Seems like the i386 ppa buildds are more overworked than the amd64 ones
<Rhonda> People, please don't upload to PPAs for a while, I want to have wesnoth-1.9 compiled on i386.  Thanks for your cooperation! :)
<Pici> heh
<Rhonda> uh oh
<Rhonda> 1.9 GiB (96.66%) of 2.0 GiB
<Rhonda> and all this because of a PPA of wesnoth-1.9
<Rhonda> Whom to talk to to potentially get some expansion? :)
<Laney> #launchpad I guess
<micahg> Rhonda: file a request on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<Rhonda> hmm, 2 gig per PPA
<Rhonda> So maybe I should just split it, but that wouldn't make sense for wesnoth-devel
<Rhonda> â¦ or drop some release
<micahg> Rhonda: reasonable requests for more space are generally granted
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-21
<cdunlap> I am not sure if this is the forum but I have a quick question around learning how to package and the expectations.  Do you mind if I ask it here?
<cdunlap> no worries, I will try back tomorrow
<Laney> bdrung: any chance of a natty-backport of u-d-t?
<micahg> mk-build-deps -i -r rocks
<Laney> i always forget to sudo it
<Laney> but yes, good it is
<nagappan> Hello, I have just released LDTP-2.2.0, would like to update the existing package, these fixes are required for Ubuntu 11.10
<nagappan> release announcement http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ldtp-dev/2011-September/001054.html
<nagappan> package available http://download.freedesktop.org/ldtp/2.x/2.2.x/ldtp-2.2.0.tar.gz
<nagappan> the package here http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/ldtp is previous release
<nagappan> done during Feb 2011
<micahg> nagappan: please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<jtaylor> looks like only bugfixes
<jtaylor> that should need noe ffe
<jtaylor> hm ok overlooked rightclick function
<jtaylor> nagappan: the package is also in debian, its preferable to get the new version there first and then sync it to ubuntu
<micahg> jtaylor: Added two new methods to LDTPv2 as per LDTPv1 API set - verifytoggled,
<micahg> verifypushbutton
<jtaylor> should still be enough time for that if the debian maintainer is responsove
<jtaylor> brb 15 min
<micahg> well, we're close, it would be fine to do a 0ubuntu1 upload as long as there won't be a tarball mismatch when syncing next cycle
<nagappan> jibel, any help on the above suggestion ?
<nagappan> jibel, I have no clues on them
<nagappan> BTW, jibel / ara helped me earlier in all uploads :-D
<nagappan> they both are very helpful, including patrickmw
<micahg> that makes sense since mago is an rdepend
<ryoohki> would someone help me with pbuilder on natty?
<jtaylor> whats your issue?
<ryoohki> http://paste.ubuntu.com/694763/
<ryoohki> even when i login and apt-get install the missing packages, it still reports it can't find them
<jtaylor> you can install fcode-utils when you log in
<jbicha> ryoohki: did you enable universe? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Universe_support
<ryoohki> jbicha: actually, i did but for some reason i had to use wget since it couldn't find that particular one
<ryoohki> yeah, i logged in and ap-get instslled the other twoo
<jbicha> ryoohki: I also need to run pbuilder-dist oneiric update -udcar every so often to pick up the latest stuff but good to hear you fixed it
<ryoohki> jbicha: i didn't fix it
<ryoohki> jbicha: this is after i installed the pkgs
<ryoohki> can i just delete /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz and start again?  also, this warning "W: /root/.pbuilderrc does not exist"
<micahg> pbuilder-dist is not supposed to be run with sudo
<ryoohki> micahg: none-the-less, is it ok to just delete everything in /var/cache/pbuilder
<ryoohki> ls /var/cache/pbuilder => aptcache  base.tgz  build  ccache  pbuildd  pbuilder-mnt  pbuilder-umlresult  result
<micahg> ah, you're using regular pbuilder...
<micahg> ryoohki: I'd suggest running clean instead of build before removing
<ryoohki> micahg: i'm trying to build openbios for natty
<ryoohki> i have the tar file, the diff tar file, and the .dsc file
<ryoohki> micahg: i'm used to rpms
<micahg> ryoohki: you might want to try pbuilder-dist in ubuntu-dev-tools
<ryoohki> micahg: i switched
<ryoohki> how do i use gpg and the .dsc to verify the files?
<tumbleweed> ryoohki: .dsc's are clearsigned, you can
<tumbleweed> verify them with gpg --verify
<tumbleweed> dpkg-source will check the signatures when you use it to extract files
<tumbleweed> bdrung/anyone: Care to do the SRU verifications for ubuntu-dev-tools?
<ryoohki> tumbleweed: dpkg-source -x comes b ack so fast, i'm not sure it's checking
<tumbleweed> it should tell you
<ryoohki> hmm
<ryoohki> i just manually checked the sha1sum, sha256sum, and md5sum, as well as, the file sizes and they are all correct
<ryoohki> here's waht dpkg-source looked like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/694816/
<ryoohki> lintian reports that missing-debian-source-format and debian-watch-file-is-missing are missing but since it's "I:" i assume it's not even awarning
<ryoohki> does "pbuilder build openbios-ppc_1.0+svn640-1.dsc" come next and then that's it?
<ryoohki> using "pbuilder-dist build --distribution natty openbios-ppc_1.0+svn640-1.dsc", seems to be working
<ryoohki> does pbuilder-dist support other archs?  i need to build this on a ppc or ppc64 machine, apparently
<ryoohki> This package must be built on a PowerPC machine
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-22
<ryoohki> i'm ttrying to build a package on x86_64 that says it needs to be built on ppc =>
<ryoohki> "This package must be built on a PowerPC machine"
<ryoohki> pbuilder-dist natty build openbios-ppc_1.0+svn640-1.dsc"
<micahg> ryoohki: hmm, it seems to think it needs that..
<RAOF> ryoohki: Time to investigate the wonderful world of virtualisation, methinks.
<micahg> we have the same problem on our builders: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78736775/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.openbios-ppc_1.0%2Bsvn1018-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<RAOF> If you've got qemu-user-static installed you should be able to just ask sbuild or pbuilder to set up a PPC chroot for you.
<StevenK> And it's arch: all. Fail.
<RAOF> micahg: Sounds like it needs to go into packages-arch-specific?
<micahg> according to bug 756068, it needs to be built on powerpc, but remain arch all
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 756068 in openbios-ppc (Ubuntu) "openbios-ppc version 1.0+svn640-1 failed to build on i386" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/756068
<StevenK> RAOF: Not when it's arch-indep, it doesn't
<RAOF> StevenK: There are a couple of things that are arch-indep but must be built on a specific arch; how do we handle them if not p-a-s?
<ryoohki> aah!  thanks!
<ryoohki> p-a-s?
<StevenK> Packages-arch-specific
<ryoohki> StevenK: thanks!
<StevenK> However, I feel adding openbios-ppc to p-a-s and then asking LP to built it as arch-indep will just end up with LP complaining the build is for no architectures.
<micahg> StevenK: I think that's why Colin won't fixed that bug for oneiric :)
<dholbach> good morning
<bdrung> Laney: really? you have to backport distro-info, devscripts too
<bdrung> tumbleweed: no ;)
<Laney> mainly want the new syncpackage
<bdrung> Laney: then use https://launchpad.net/~udt-developers/+archive/daily
<bdrung> Laney: see how many packages needed a backport for working on natty?
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> as you wish
<bdrung> Laney: that's because we moved a big bunch of scripts
<jtaylor> ScottK: was python-central set to automatically installed when you tested it for bug 856458?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856458 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "python-central no longer needed, but not removed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856458
<ScottK> jtaylor: Not sure.
<ScottK> I certainly wouldn't have manually installed it, but that doesn't necessarily relate to how it was marked.
<ScottK> That particular server is now python-support free too.
<jtaylor> nice
<jtaylor> can't remove central on my desktop yet :(
<Laney> is Ubuntu much further than Debian on this?
 * Laney has zillions of things depending on both
<jtaylor> a bit
<jtaylor> ubuntu main is -support free
<Laney> I guess a lot of them wouldn't be on a server
<ScottK> jtaylor: No.
<jtaylor> thanks to barry's efforts
<jtaylor> not main
<ScottK> There's stuff in Main that's not on CDs
<jtaylor> cd dvd I meant
<ScottK> Right on CD != Main
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> just confus it while typing :/
<jbicha> hmm, gwibber still uses python-support
<micahg> yep, only xubuntu is without python-support ATM
<jtaylor> :O was something missing when fixing bug 788514?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788514 in pyxdg (Debian) "python packages on the CDs not using dh_python2" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788514
<ScottK> I wish there was a tool I cool feed it two package names and get the intersection of the rdepends of one and the depends of the other.
<ScottK> i.e. feed if python-support and ubuntu-desktop and get the answer to this question.
<broder> ScottK: aptitude?
<broder> aptitude search '~D^python-support$~R^ubuntu-desktop$', i think
<broder> (that might be backwards)
<broder> though i guess you probably want recursive rdepends/depends, which that won't get you
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> micahg: No python-support on Kubuntu CDs either.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-23
<micahg> ScottK: right, sorry, that's true as well :)
<cdunlap> I am not sure this is the correct forum, but I have a quick question around packaging and expectations.  Would this be an appropriate place to ask?
<ScottK> cdunlap: It depends.  If you are working on packages for Ubuntu, it is.  If not, #ubuntu-packaging might be better.
<cdunlap> ScottK: I think this could be classified as a general packaging question
<ScottK> I'd say ask then.
<cdunlap> So I have been trying to learn how to package and I have been working through the information Daniel Holbach has been putting on OMGUbuntu.
<cdunlap> When I try to 'make' the file it kicks back, what look to me, as errors with one of the files.  Is the expectation that the packager would fix these errors, or would the packager work with the developer of the application?
<ScottK> "It depends"
<ScottK> Sometimes the errors are due to packaging problems, sometimes it's an upstream issue.
<cdunlap> is being able to tell the difference something you gain with experience or is it usually pretty evident?
<ScottK> Sometimes even if it's an upstream issue, a packager will figure out a fix and let upstream know.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Sometimes it's pretty evident, sometimes it's stuff it takes experience to understand.
<cdunlap> I figured some of my troubles are because I am trying to figure it out.  Thanks for the clarification.  I do appreciate it.
<ScottK> No problem.
<alkisg> If I have a debian/upstart file, do I need to have debian/postinst and debian/postrm too? Or dh_installinit can create them for me?
<Rhonda> It creates them
<alkisg> Thank you, I was worried about this lintian warning: W: panoptes: script-in-etc-init.d-not-registered-via-update-rc.d /etc/init.d/panoptes
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> dpkg --info panoptes_*.deb  # does this list postrm/postinst?
<Rhonda> Maybe you do need a dummy file then which includes the #DEBHELPER# marker.
<alkisg> It has postinst, preinst and prerm
<alkisg> All autogenerated
<alkisg> And inside postinst:
<alkisg> # Automatically added by dh_installinit
<alkisg> update-rc.d -f panoptes remove >/dev/null || exit $?
<alkisg> ...remove?
<Rhonda> uh?
<alkisg> I don't know why, but it calls update-rc.d remove in postinst! ????
<alkisg> (using gdebi-gtk to look the scripts inside the .deb)
<alkisg> It looks like dh_installinit only has this bug with upstart, if I put debian/init scripts instead, I get no lintian warnings and the automatically generated postinst is sane again
<alkisg> Oh well I'll just revert the scripts from upstart to sysvinit again. Thanks :)
<dholbach> good morning
<alkisg> The "update-rc.d -f package remove" part earlier may there to remove the init.d links, as the upstart job should be used instead. I see it on packages that have a manual postinst too.
<alkisg> And for the "script-in-etc-init.d-not-registered-via-update-rc.d" warning, I found a bug in launchpad, it was fixed in later lintian versions (I'm using lucid)
<micahg> hi Q-FUNK, so have you sponsored bzr branches yet?
<Q-FUNK> not that I can remember, no.
<micahg> Q-FUNK: oh, well, if you're interested, I'm sure someone here can help you, https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/gjs/1.29.18/+merge/76441, it's 3AM for me so I'm a little reluctant right now
<Q-FUNK> ok
<ScottSanbar> ApOgEE: Howdy!
<ScottSanbar> (whoops)
<alkisg> Which of those should I prefer to package a python app? http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ap-packaging_tools.html
<alkisg> Is distutils with debhelper a good choice, or should I go for CDBS?
<geser> I'd go with debhelper
<alkisg> Debhelper with plain distutils, right? Not dh_pysupport nor dh_pycentral... correct?
<tumbleweed> --with python2
<alkisg> Ah, thank you, /me reads about that ...
<alkisg> Could someone suggest me a package that uses that, so that I could use it as a template?
<tumbleweed> alkisg: so this is a simple python app. Does it also have a public python library? or is it not going to be useful for other python apps, and should be installed privatel?
<alkisg> tumbleweed: It's separated into 2 parts. One daemon is using twisted, and a client/GUI is contacting the daemon part.
<alkisg> Neither of them will be useful to external apps
<tumbleweed> alkisg: ok, I don't have any packages excatly like that, but upnp-inspector is a simple python app that installs privately
<tumbleweed> alkisg: do you install any twisted plugins? (i.e. for the daemon)
<alkisg> Thank you, I'll look into that
<alkisg> tumbleweed: yes, but I'd prefer to run them manually instead of as plugins, if I manage to do it
<alkisg> twistd -f path/to/my/file.py or however else it works
<tumbleweed> alkisg: ok, if you install a plugin, you should activate the twisted-plugins-cache trigger
<ScottK> If it's using twisted it'll need to use the same python helper as twisted.
<tumbleweed> twisted uses dh_python2 these days
<alkisg> Good, some good news at last :)
<ripps> I'm having some problems with a package that doesn't work anymore, can someone join me #ubuntu-packaging
<ScottSanbar> Unit193:  I mean the fact that you clued me in - thanks ...
<ScottSanbar> (whoops)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-24
<cdunlap>  Quick question for anyone listening.
<cdunlap> I know that I can use a package as a template.  Is there one in particular that is a good example to use or will pretty much any of them help me learn?
<jbicha> look at packaging that is similar to what you're working on
<jbicha> for instance if it's a GNOME app, look at other GNOME apps' packaging
<jbicha> if it's Python, look at other Python packaging
<cdunlap> Thank You jbicha.  That is a good rule of thumb.  I appreciate it
<nonix4> Is the process for fixing regressions in universe packages caused by things like python-2.7(+) upgrade documented somewhere? As in assuming I'm using natty, howto for installing oneiric vm for devel as well etc? Bug #576504 seems trivially fixable for example.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576504 in singularity (Ubuntu) "Menu pops up repeatedly during game (w/savegame)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576504
<jtaylor> tag python2.7 I think
<jtaylor> fix looks simple so no special process should be required for oneiric for natty you need to follow: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jtaylor> barry: you know if there will be anything changed in python for http://bugs.python.org/issue10379, it seems one cannot fix it so it works in 2.6 and 2.7 without ugly hacks
<jtaylor> ok only for the format-string + %% case, other cases work in 2.[67]
<asogani> "bzr branch ubuntu:gnupg gnupg.dev" gives an error
<asogani> "bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/asogani/src/gnupg/ubuntu:gnupg/""
<asogani> Could someone explain why? I'm an Ubuntu newbie trying to create a bzr branch by following http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-getting-the-source.html#branching
<sergio91pt> asogani, bzr thinks you're trying to branch a local branch called ubuntu:gnupg
<Laney> use lp:ubuntu/gnupg
<sergio91pt> do this instead: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/gnupg gnupg.dev
<asogani> thanks Laney, sergio91pt !
<asogani> maybe that webpage needs correction as well?
<jtaylor> if you do the init-repo step as said on the page it works
<hyperair> jacob: ping.
<hyperair> jacob: i've recently tried using your business card template, but for some reason, inkscape refuses to print or export it to a non-bitmap format with the background intact. do you happen to know why?
<jacob> hyperair: it's because the background is a mask, and inkscape doesn't know how to export that properly for other formats (or the other formats don't support them). I've had good experience with a PNG at 300 dpi for printing, though.
<jacob> I'll see if there's any way to flatten that background to make that easier in any case.
<hyperair> ah, i figured as much. for the gradient effect, eh?
<hyperair> thanks for the info.
<jacob> yeah. it was either gradients or masks (or both) that wouldn't export correctly
<gilbert> what up ohio :)
<jacob> yo gilbert
<hyperair> jacob: aha, thanks for the information.
<jacob> hyperair: no problem. i just checked to see if I could flatten out that background, but inkscape doesn't provide a way to permanently apply masks -- so i'd have to rasterize it, which would bring us back to square 1. :P
<jacob> but in any case, you'll get a really high quality print by exporting at >= 300 dpi anyway
<hyperair> jacob: yeah, i'll just have to deal with this anal printer.
<jacob> :P
 * hyperair sighs
<hyperair> jacob: 01:07:28 <su-v> it's a known bug (mask is on a layer with a transform)
<hyperair> 01:08:04 <su-v> create a new layer, move the dots (group in layer Background Grid) onto the new layer, save a copy as PDF
<Q-FUNK> what do we mean by "unseeded fixes" ?
<alkisg> I'm trying to find a python package that uses launchpad for translations, to see how it moves po/*.po to /usr/share/locale/*.
<alkisg> I checked jockey first, but I didn't see any translation-related code... is that because it's in main, so its translations go to langpacks, so the maintainer didn't have to care about .po installation?
<jbicha> alkisg: it might be automatic with setup.py and python-distutils-extra
<alkisg> jbicha: thank you, that's probably it, reading...
<jbicha> that's how we do it with gui-ufw, the install is nearly automatic
<alkisg> I also just found a good non-python-distutils-extra tutorial in http://wiki.maemo.org/Internationalize_a_Python_application#Include_translations_in_your_installation
<jbicha> distutils-extra will automate that, I don't know if there's a tutorial for it though
<jbicha> it looks for files in certain locations and automatically puts them where they should go
 * alkisg apt-get source's gui-ufw... :)
<alkisg> Launchpad also pushes .mo files in the branch? Not just .po ?
<jbicha> I don't know how Launchpad does translations yet
<alkisg> I saw .mo files in the source of gui-ufw and I got confused :)
 * alkisg wishes he had read about python-distutils-extra 2 days ago, sounds like it would have saved me a lot of work :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-25
<alkisg> I've switched to using python-distutils-extra, and it's very nice, I didn't have to do anything at all to have i18n etc.
<alkisg> However I can't find out how to install a twisted plugin, i.e. /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/twisted/plugins/panoptesd.py
<alkisg> I tried DistUtilsExtra.auto.setup(...    ...py_modules = ['twisted/plugins/panoptesd'], ...), but that gave me the following error:
<alkisg> ValueError: illegal provides specification: 'twisted/plugins/panoptesd'
<tumbleweed> my guess would be . instead of /
<alkisg> I didn't put /
<alkisg> py_modules = ['twisted/plugins/panoptesd']
<alkisg> It's relative to my project dir, it worked fine before switching to python-distutils-extra
<alkisg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/696659/ => the last commented line is causing the problem
<tumbleweed> I mean tha tI thought py_modules took a dot-separated python module spec, rather than a filesystem path
<alkisg> I tried with ./twisted etc, and again got: ValueError: illegal provides specification: './twisted/plugins/panoptesd'
<tumbleweed> no, I mean twisted.plugins.panoptesd
<alkisg> That does not complain, but it doesn't put the panoptesd.py file in my .deb either
<tumbleweed> I'm guessing that's because you forgot to add it to your dh_install file
<alkisg> tumbleweed: thank you sir, you just saved me some hours of hair pulling :)
<tumbleweed> heh, np
<alkisg> While everything works fine and gets installed in place, distutils-extra warns me about 10 files that it says it can't handle:
<alkisg> WARNING: the following files are not recognized by DistUtilsExtra.auto:
<alkisg>   data/panoptes.desktop.in
<alkisg>   panoptes.8
<alkisg> ...
<alkisg> But they're installed just fine. Should I just ignore that warning?
<tumbleweed> I guess so. I don't know distutils-extra
<alkisg> Ty
<jtaylor> anyone familiar with libpeas or gedits plugin loading? bug 859089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 859089 in gedit (Ubuntu) "gedit-plugins unable to load" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859089
<jtaylor> it appears to not load libpython
<micahg> jtaylor: python-gobject probably needs a rebuild
<jtaylor> hm yes looks like another case of people not caring about dpkh-shlibdeps warnings ...
<jtaylor> I wish these where errors
<jtaylor> hm now this is a bit more complicated ._.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-17
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<iulian> Morning guys.
<ajmitch> Laney: backports ping
<Laney> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<xnox> ?
<ajmitch> ok, I'll find someone else then :P
<Laney> haha
<Laney> no, pick me
<ajmitch> it involves an arduous task
<ajmitch> I've got a change on dogfood.lp.n that should allow backports to be uploaded when archive isn't frozen, needs QA before it can go live
<ajmitch> how are you usually doing backports at the moment? sourceful upload?
<Laney> yeah, using backportpackage
<ajmitch> you want to try it out & check that it all works as it should? :)
<Laney> how do you upload to dogfood?
<ajmitch> change dput.cf
<ajmitch> https://dev.launchpad.net/Soyuz/TechnicalDetails/Uploading
<ajmitch> pretty standard, just different host
<Laney> what should I do then?
<Laney> upload something from Debian?
<ajmitch> yeah, and check that it lands in the unapproved queue, maybe accept from there since you're in the right teams
<Laney> is that reflected on df?
 * Laney wonders if backportpackage can handle this
<ajmitch> dogfood is dog-slow, but I've been told that soyuz stuff is running there for QA
<Laney> dear god, I can't type my gpg passphrase
<ajmitch> https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+queue shows you how old it is, if it loads :)
<Laney> there we go
<Laney> 7 attempts later
<ajmitch> sounds like me trying to unlock my screen after resume today
<ajmitch> & then I found that numlock was on (laptop keyboard)
<iulian> Heh, that happened to me too.
<Laney> ajmitch: looks alright so far
<ajmitch> nice, I see it in unapproved
<Laney> woes with 2fa trying to log in to accept it though
 * Laney is being helped
<ajmitch> heh, ok
<Laney> what else would you want to test?
<Laney> if it works when the distroseries is FROZEN?
<ajmitch> maybe, though that's just checking that existing behaviour isn't broken
<Laney> up to you
<ajmitch> is there a distroseries in FROZEN state on there, or can you change it?
<Laney> you could ask for Q to be changed
<ajmitch> could do, I'm fairly certain that it'll work
<ajmitch> since the change I did was a 1-line change, adding backports to the list of pre-release pockets
<Laney> ok
<Laney> your QA :-)
 * ajmitch can probably retest the upload if it's needed
<ajmitch> but thanks for testing it :)
<ajmitch> sorry it wasn't by feature freeze, but at least it's done now :)
<Laney> the WI blues
 * Laney knows it
<ajmitch> yeah, I've got a few more to do
<Laney> ajmitch: should be OK
<ajmitch> hm?
<Laney> https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pinta/1.3-2~ubuntu12.10.1
<ajmitch> nice
 * ajmitch wonders where those packages go 
<ajmitch> it'll be ok if the page ever loads :)
<ajmitch> I'll pass on these results in the morning to the kind reviewer who I owe beer to
<Laney> you should just have to set the qa-ok tag
<ajmitch> right
<cousteau> could someone fix the package gdb-msp430?
<cousteau> bug #860045
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 860045 in gdb-msp430 (Ubuntu) "package gdb-msp430 7.2~mspgcc-7.2-20110612-1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gdb/python/gdb/__init__.py', which is also in package gdb 7.3-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860045
<cousteau> fixing nvidia-96 may also be interesting...  nvidia-173 had a similar problem and was already fixed
<bencer> hi all, to remove a package now that we are in freeze is there anything special to do a part from the explained on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing_Packages
<tumbleweed> bencer: if it's a leaf package, there's nothing to worry about
<jtaylor> is the date updating of dch broken in quantal?
<jtaylor> doesn't work for me :(
<jtaylor> precise works
<jtaylor> problem solved, feature no bug
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-18
<krosswindz> I was wondering if someone could help me with a question on packaging for my ppa
<krosswindz> i want to build a package for which i want to build-depend on an older version of the package from my ppa rather than a newer version from ubuntu main
<krosswindz> I tried to set the version in build depend package foo(= version-bar) then I get an error
<krosswindz> "missing build dependencies"
<krosswindz> any way I could fix this so that I can build the package with an older version of one of its dependencies
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<mitya57> dholbach: hi, do you have five minutes for me?
<dholbach> mitya57, I'm currently in the middle of fixing a problem I created :)
<dholbach> maybe you just explain how I could help and maybe we can figure it out together?
<mitya57> ah, I see it on #ubuntu-devel
<mitya57> I wanted you to say something good (or bad) about me at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DmitryShachnev/PPUApplication ...
<dholbach> ah ok
<mitya57> thanks
<dholbach> do you think you could drop me an email about it, so I don't forget?
<dholbach> I'm happy to do it!
<mitya57> ok, will send now :)
<dholbach> awesome, thanks a lot
<krosswindz> hi
<krosswindz> i was wondering if anybody could help me with a question regarding packaging and ppa
<geser> just ask
<krosswindz> geser: I am trying to build xbmc 11.0 in my ppa to support nfs using libnfs
<krosswindz> The problem being that the version of libnfs in ubuntu repos is new and isnt compatible with xbmc v11.0
<krosswindz> I built an older version of libnfs which is comptabile with xbmc in my ppa
<krosswindz> I setup the build-depends in the xbmc debian/control file as libnfs-dev (= 1.0.0~git20110902.0804e67)
<geser> apt automatically selects the newest version and installs it
<krosswindz> is there a way to downgrade or tell apt not to install the newer version
<krosswindz> or downgrade to an older version
<TheLordOfTime> geser, i have a question, if i enable proposed in a VM to test, apparently it won't "upgrade" a given package's dependencies according to what's needed, unless i specify the version for each.  Any suggestion to get around that and force autoinstall of the deps?
<geser> krosswindz: no, you would need to rename that older version to something like libnfs-1.0-dev (and the same with library package itself) so it doesn't collide with the newer version of libnfs
<krosswindz> geser: ok thanks for the help
<krosswindz> I was hoping one wouldnt have to do it, guess I will have to name it differently
<geser> TheLordOfTime: did you try "apt-get install foobar -t ...-proposed"?
<marga> Heys.  Long time ago, when Ubuntu was still new and shiny, I remember someone saying that all Debian Developers had automatic (or similar) upload rights to universe.  Is that still the case? Do I have to go through any process to get universe upload rights? (I'm a DD)
<TheLordOfTime> geser, no, i'll try that
<geser> marga: I don't remember that it was ever the case. But as a DD we trust you to have the needed packaging skills :) and you just need to show knowledge on the Ubuntu-specific processes (mostly about freezes)
<marga> geser, ok.  So, is there a process that I need to go through?
<geser> marga: I hope the best starting point describing it is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<marga> ok... that looks like a lot of steps :).
<geser> in short: show interest in Ubuntu, participate through sponsors, apply for MOTU (or PPU for your maintained packages) at the DMB
<marga> Yes, well, I just wanted to update a package that already has a patch in the bug queue... participating through sponsoring kind of loses the purpose.
<TheLordOfTime> geser, is there a method to get upload permissions to -proposed for a specific package, or is it the same as Ubuntu Dev procedures?
<TheLordOfTime> out of curiosity
<TheLordOfTime> btw, that apt-get command works :)
<geser> TheLordOfTime: if you have upload permissions for that package, you can also upload to -proposed this package
<TheLordOfTime> assuming i don't have upload perms for that package, what's the process?
<TheLordOfTime> (yet)
<geser> TheLordOfTime: for uploading? go through a sponsor. for getting upload rights? show that you have sufficient skills to manage that package (easily by getting uploads sponsored) and apply for PPU rights
<geser> marga: I don't know if the DMB has any shortened process for DDs but I guess they would like to see that you really want to care about your packages in Ubuntu too (and the sponsoring is usually pretty quick and easy)
<mitya57> A (stupid?) packaging question:
<mitya57> I have two packages (retext and retext-wpgen), and I want to merge them, so that
<mitya57> retext-wpgen is removed on upgrade
<dholbach> I'll start a hangout-on-air about Ubuntu development in 20 minutes - anyone interested in co-hosting?
<mitya57> Is a usual Breaks/Replaces fine for that?
<coolbhavi> dholbach, m there!
<mitya57> (or there should be something like Provides/Breaks/Replaces)?
<dholbach> coolbhavi, cool - I'll invite you when I start it
<coolbhavi> sure dholbach
<geser> mitya57: Breaks/Replaces should be enough (check the Debian policy manual if you want to be sure)
<mitya57> geser: policy section 7.6.2 suggests using Provides/Breaks/Replaces, but for a slightly different case
<dholbach> coolbhavi, you might want to join #ubuntuonair for the questions/discussions
<coolbhavi> done dholbach
<dholbach> perfect
<obounaim> I want to become a maintainer of a python package, does anybody interested in helping me?
<paultag> anyonw know where jodh hangs out?
<stgraber> paultag: #ubuntu-devel mostly
<paultag> thanks, stgraber
<TheLordOfTime> i assume the process for PPU rights is the same regardless of main or universe?
<TheLordOfTime> for applying for PPU*
<Laney> yes
<jtaylor> anyone familiar with typo3?
<jtaylor> I'm planing on syncing 4.15.19 to quantal several sec issues but also 3 bugfix releases
<jtaylor> asssuming the upstream changelogs are correct it should not need release team ack, but its still quite large and quite late
<jtaylor> opinion?
<jtaylor> http://wiki.typo3.org/TYPO3_4.5.1[789]
<jtaylor> I'll sync it, the fixes seem worth it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-19
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<geser> Hi dholbach and iulian
<Rhonda> Oh.  "Click the button below to redeem your bundle on the Ubuntu Software Center."
<Rhonda> Did canonical pay to have that special place on humblebundle, or does canonical gain anything from it when I click there?
<lifeless> I *think* they pay Canonical as a distributor, same as they pay steam.
<iulian> Morning geser.
<dholbach> hey tumbleweed, could it be that the sponsorship miner is unhappy right now?
<dholbach> also... how are you doing?
<tumbleweed> heh, hi
 * tumbleweed has been far too busy, but am around
<tumbleweed> this morning, spelunking xkcd, looking for waldo http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/stefanor/xkcd-1110.html
<dholbach> don't! click! link!
<Laney> haha
<Laney> "busy"
<Rhonda> wtf
<xnox> Rhonda: today's xkcd, but extended UI
<Rhonda> â¦ I am aware, but thanks.
<Rhonda> â¦ why do I have to think about "deeper underground" by jamiroquai suddenly.
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Did you figure out the tile_name names and download all the images already? ;)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: no, I just modifyied the XKCD page to render full screen, and accept key presses
<tumbleweed> if you like wasting RAM, try http://iclub.site40.net/xkcd.html (not for the feint hearted)
<Rhonda> key pressed?
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: That's cheating. :)
 * xnox ponders where is downloadable complete image..... I want to make a print
<tumbleweed> xnox: it's sparse
<tumbleweed> dholbach: the DSAs are looking at it (expired SSL cert)
<dholbach> tumbleweed, perfect
<obounaim> Hi, I'm interested in becoming a maintainer of a Python package do I have to be a Python expert to do that?
<tumbleweed> no
<obounaim> ok thanks
<obounaim> does anybody interested in helping me?
<tumbleweed> !ask|obounaim
<ubottu> obounaim: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<ockham> anyone care to do bug #1052882 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052882 in sweethome3d (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync sweethome3d 3.6+dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052882
<ockham> ^ FFe, please, anyone? (#1052882)
<c_korn> hello, how can I check which repositorie's gpg key is not installed?
<obounaim> Hi, I'm trying to fix a small bug in ubuntu using bzr branch, when I run bzr branch ubuntu:python-z3c.formui I get bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/python-z3c.formui/"
<tumbleweed> obounaim: that's the name of a binary package
<tumbleweed> it's built from the source package z3c.formui
<obounaim> tumbleweed: thanks it's working now.
<obounaim> but how can I figure out this by my self?
<tumbleweed> $ apt-cache show python-z3c.formui | grep Source
<obounaim> ok thanks
<c_korn> hello, I have a question regarding debian/watch files. I want to scan for "frostwire-(\d[\d\.]+)\.noarch\.tar\.(?:gz|bz2|xz)" files in these directories. the highest version number here is 5.4.0 http://main1.frostwire.com/frostwire/ but this directory does not contain a noarch.tar.gz file. how can I tell uscan that the highest version number is the directory which has a noarch.tar.gz file in it?
<c_korn> oh, this is my current debian/watch file http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=i7bDhLGp
<c_korn> looks like uscan automatically takes the directory with the highest version number and then continues scanning for the tarball in this directory http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CEhj1crd
<arand> c_korn: Hmm, I might be wrong, but can't you just use a catch-all match for the folder instead?
<tumbleweed> c_korn: I don't think you can
<obounaim> "bzr pd -- -S" fails to build the z3c.formui
<c_korn> hum, I think I have to write some sort of redirector
<obounaim> how to quickly install all the dependencies of package from debian/changelog?
<c_korn> obounaim: the build dependencies are in debian/control. and I use this command: sudo mk-build-deps -i -r
<obounaim> c_korn: thanks
<obounaim> bzr bd -- -S fails
<obounaim> dh clean --with pydeb --with python2
<obounaim> dh: unable to load addon pydeb: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/pydeb.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.14.2 /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.14 /usr/share/perl/5.14 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at (eval 3) line 2.
<obounaim> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at (eval 3) line 2.
<micahg> obounaim: sudo mk-build-deps -i -r (build deps are required for clean)
<obounaim> Can anybody review my merge proposal.
<obounaim> micahg: thanks.
<obounaim> Can anybody review my merge proposal.
<micahg> obounaim: cross posting is generally frowned upon, why would you ask someone to look at your proposal before you're sure it works?
<obounaim> michag: I have just add a home of the project.
<obounaim> bzr lp-propose fails: "bzr: ERROR: Source and target branches must be different." what is going on?
<micahg> obounaim: you should propose your changes to the development series (in this case quantal), precise updates need to meet https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates criteria
<obounaim> micahg: how to do that
<micahg> lp:ubuntu/package instead of lp:ubuntu/precise/package
<alo21> hi. Do you think this package is a sync-worth (http://changelog.debian.net/eblook) ?
<micahg> hardening can be a good thing, the typo also might be important depending on what it is
<jtaylor> adding hardening should not require release team ack?
<micahg> well, it depends, some hardening used to be a no-op on Ubuntu, not sure what the current state is and what this package specifically uses
<ockham> *nagnag* FFe, please, anyone? (#1052882) ^
<tumbleweed> ockham: Please don't nag about FFes like that one
<tumbleweed> it's only a few hours old, for a start
<tumbleweed> but, as I *was* just looking at it: I'd kind of like a better argument than "it's new a new release that came out since FF"
<Laney> and "runs under 12.04" (twice) isn't very convincing :-)
<ajmitch> Laney: looks like that lp change has been deployed
<Laney> SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
<ajmitch> at least justing by the revision number & deployment report, just in time for the archive to freeze again :)
<ajmitch> s/justing/judging/
 * ajmitch needs coffee
<micahg> well, do we care if the main archive is frozen for backports?
<ajmitch> micahg: the code did allow uploads then
<micahg> ajmitch: and backports is always frozen anyways, right?
<micahg> * i.e. everything to NEW or UNAPPROVED
<ajmitch> micahg: pocket always unapproved != distroseries being frozen
<micahg> right
<ajmitch> I got laney to test uploading to quantal-backports on dogfood, it should probably work on production now
<ajmitch> now we need the other bits like the rebackporter bot to spit out a report of what needs updated
<highvoltage> hey guys
<ajmitch> hi highvoltage
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-20
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> I'll do another hangout on air in a bit - any ubuntu developer interested in co-hosting it?
<coolbhavi> dholbach, I'm there again :)
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> anyone else?
<Laney> I wonder if you can make these hangouts higher res
<Laney> the test is a bit hard to read here
<bkerensa> Laney: not really :) when dholbach did his dev hangout last I could barely read his terminal
<bkerensa> =/ HD would be nice
<Laney> googling suggest not
<Laney> suggests
<Laney> bkerensa: do any other services (ustream?) allow multiple participants and screen sharing in HD?
<bkerensa> Laney: not that I am aware of
<Laney> sad
<xnox> you can export `screen` with multiple viewers....
<Laney> screen+mumble, YEAH!
<Laney> bah, need a new laptop charger
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> I just went solar with my laptop
 * Laney looks at the sky
<bkerensa> should work till the clouds come :D
 * Laney decides that wouldn't be prudent
<Laney> http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MC461B/A/apple-60w-magsafe-power-adapter-for-macbook-and-13-inch-macbook-pro
<Laney> bahaha those reviews
 * Laney buys a cheap "genuine" one from ebay :(
<xnox> Laney: I had a cheap one of ebay, one day it burned I opened it up and it was the most horrendous PSU I ever saw =( I don't get apple. magnetic connector is nice, but thin wires is not durable
<Laney> well, this is supposed to be a genuine apple one
<Laney> which is still awful but better than some weird crap
<Laney> my older "T" shape one still works, but the new trendy connector is broken
 * xnox 's phone is still upgrading to ios6 it's been 20 minutes now
<Laney> speaking of trendy products ;-)
<dholbach> ok, next time I hope to have some of you cohosting as well :)
<coolbhavi> dholbach, I'll be mostly available on tuesdays and its fun :) thanks a lot!
<dholbach> :-)
<Laney> dholbach: do it an hour later or so and I could get involved
<dholbach> cool, that's good to know :)
<dholbach> or the one on tuesdays could work
<Laney> when's that?
<dholbach> tuesdays 15 utc, thursday 8 utc
<dholbach> and we could always add a new date/time
<Laney> ah, that could be better
<dholbach> tuesday?
<Laney> that time of day
<dholbach> ok, perfect
<ajmitch> 8 utc is almost possible for me,if I had something useful to contribute :)
<tumbleweed> ah, it's a MOTU Meeting week
<g0twig> I would be pleased if someone could take a look at this bug from last year that bugs about 30 people -..- and is easy to fix as it seems: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/871985
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871985 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "The printing panel shouldn't display errors about firewalld not running" [Low,Triaged]
<tumbleweed> g0twig: that's an upstream gnome bug. Not really the kind of thing we work on here
<g0twig> tumbleweed: why, if the file has another name @ ubuntu ?
<micahg> meeting?
<tumbleweed> g0twig: ah, I hadn't read the whole bug
<tumbleweed> cyphermox: g0twig is talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/871985/comments/17
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871985 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "The printing panel shouldn't display errors about firewalld not running" [Low,Triaged]
<tumbleweed> micahg: yeah
<g0twig> tumbleweed: any idea?
<tumbleweed> g0twig: it's still a topic for #ubuntu-desktop
<cyphermox> Thanks I'll look into it
<cyphermox> That's the other way around, the correct name for the nm configuration file is indeed NetworkManager.conf
<tumbleweed> urgh, there's 92% packet loss between me and europe
<didrocks> cjwatson: around?
<cjwatson> didrocks: mm?
<didrocks> cjwatson: hey, can you please binNEW the shopping lens? seems doko sourceNEW but then left, and I'm waiting on it to promote it to main (the MIR is acked)
<didrocks> cjwatson: then, once everything is ready, I can copy the unity stack from -proposed to quantal
<didrocks> cjwatson: argh, sorry, we are on #ubuntu-motu, seems weechat renumbered my channel, thought we were on -release
<Laney> this is a cool channel!
<cjwatson> right, hang on then
<didrocks> Laney: didn't say the contrary, just not the appropriate :)
<cjwatson> no powerpc, need all arches before copying really
<didrocks> cjwatson: oh sure, I was just about binNEW, I'll copy the stack myself
 * cjwatson scores that up
<cjwatson> right, but I'd need to binNEW powerpc as well anyway probably
<cjwatson> depending on timing
<cjwatson> I'll review it now though
<didrocks> cjwatson: ok, thanks :)
<cjwatson> used into Unity -> used in Unity
<didrocks> cjwatson: ok, making a note, I think we have all the lenses description to change then :)
<cjwatson> obviously not reject-worthy :)  looks fine otherwise
<didrocks> cjwatson: thanks ;)
<cjwatson> I'll be around until it finishes building
<didrocks> cjwatson: what tool should I use to copy the whole stack btw? I don't know if it changed since precise and your enhancements to our tooling
<didrocks> cjwatson: as they will probably finish in ~2 hours
<cjwatson> sru-release -r quantal ...
<didrocks> cjwatson: perfect, thanks a lot again :)
<cjwatson> excuse the naming
<didrocks> cjwatson: just double checking it was still this name :)
<cjwatson> it's possible to use copy-package, but hardly worth it
<Laney> h
<didrocks> ok, I'll stay on the sru-release one, already tested and so more trust
<cjwatson> ... ok, somebody beat me to the accept evidently *shrug*
<didrocks> oh?
<didrocks> yeah, seeing
<c_korn> hello, can someone please help me to compile a rather old game? the line to link it is this: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=LZGV3UGu but it fails with this: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eTTSp1hr all required libs should be there: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=W4EAKjNT trying to compile on Ubuntu 12.04 amd64
<Zhenech> c_korn, you need the sdl dev header, at least
<jtaylor> the full error message would help too
<c_korn> these packages are installed: libsdl1.2-dev libsdl-mixer1.2-dev freeglut3-dev mesa-common-dev libgl1-mesa-swx11-dev
<jtaylor> likely an as-needed issue
<jtaylor> impossible to tell without the compileline
<c_korn> this is what debuild tries to do: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dV3aw4Pr
<radu> i think he mentioned the compile line here: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=LZGV3UGu
<jtaylor> oh
 * jtaylor fails at reading
<c_korn> the line in the debuild log is a bit different
<jtaylor> move the libs to the end of the line and it should work
<c_korn> jtaylor: omg you genius. I tried anything but this. thought the libs always have to be at the beginning.
<jtaylor> no, always after the objects needing them
<c_korn> k, thanks ;)
<MohamedAlaa98_> any ideas?
<micahg> MohamedAlaa98_: ideas for what?
<MohamedAlaa98_> about this problem
<MohamedAlaa98_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1217591/
<jtaylor> looks like missing build depends
<MohamedAlaa98_> :/ I've added the universe to pbuilder's list
<MohamedAlaa98_> what should I do?
<jtaylor> fix Build-Depends: in debian/control
<jtaylor> from the log it needs python-curl, python-webkit and python-imaging
<MohamedAlaa98_> and I shoulde but it in the control
<MohamedAlaa98_> *should
<MohamedAlaa98_> right?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> then rebuilt the source package with debuild -S -us -uc
<MohamedAlaa98_> ok, thank you :)
<MohamedAlaa98_> I use debuild -S -sa
<jtaylor> that works too
<MohamedAlaa98_> ok :)
<jtaylor> it just adds the source to the changes file which you need if you want to upload
<MohamedAlaa98_> ok
* tumbleweed changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Quantal: Archive frozen for B2 | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Small tasks: http://goo.gl/bSual
<MohamedAlaa98_> jtaylor: nothing changed
<MohamedAlaa98_> jtaylor: please note that the python-curl, python-webkit packages was included in control before
<MohamedAlaa98_> just added python-imaging
<jtaylor> its not installed in the logfile you posted
<MohamedAlaa98_> :/ I don't know
<MohamedAlaa98_> here's the control
<jtaylor> are you sure you regenerated the dsc?
<MohamedAlaa98_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1217642/
<jtaylor> it needs to go into Build-Depends
<jtaylor> in addition to Depends:
<jtaylor> also don't use python:Provides
<jtaylor> is that the full control? the source package part is missing
<MohamedAlaa98_> oh sorry
<MohamedAlaa98_> Source: penguintv
<MohamedAlaa98_> Section: gnome
<MohamedAlaa98_> Source: penguintv
<MohamedAlaa98_> Section: gnome
<MohamedAlaa98_> Source: penguintv
<MohamedAlaa98_> Section: gnome
<MohamedAlaa98_> Priority: optional
<MohamedAlaa98_> Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<MohamedAlaa98_> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5.0.38),
<MohamedAlaa98_>  cdbs (>= 0.4.49),
<MohamedAlaa98_>  python (>= 2.4),
<MohamedAlaa98_>  python-central (>= 0.5.6)
<MohamedAlaa98_> XS-Python-Version: current
<MohamedAlaa98_> Standards-Version: 3.9.3
<MohamedAlaa98_> Homepage: http://penguintv.sourceforge.net/
<jtaylor> there the dependencies are missing
<micahg> !pastebin | MohamedAlaa98_
<ubottu> MohamedAlaa98_: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<MohamedAlaa98_> you mean that i should include  python-pycurl python-imaging python webkit in build dependencies
<MohamedAlaa98_> ?
<jtaylor> yes
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-21
<dholbach> good morning
<gotwig> I want a feature freeze exception for this commit for gnome control center: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=45ba8e89e86397df912e07df14d76373f1c7e7af.
<gotwig> this fixes the error message from firewallid for finding network printers in Printers panel under GNOME Shell
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/balloontip/2008.11.14-0ubuntu2
<Laney> should we be uploading for that?
<Laney> It didn't actually add any new dependencies.
<geser> is it perhaps related to the changes for -java packages? (and got matched by looking for source packages building -java packages)
<marga> So, I have prepared a package that fixes some bugs for "myunity".  How do I go about getting sponsoring for it?
<geser> !sponsorship
<ubottu> You can find out about the package sponsorship process here http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess - For !UDS sponsorship see http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/sponsorship/
<geser> in short: attach a debdiff to the bug and subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to it (or prepare a bzr branch if you prefer and file a merge-proposal)
<marga> geser, ok, thanks.
<marga> I had done the debdiff part but didn't know about subscribing sponsors to it.
<geser> hmm, "myunity" doesn't seem to be in quantal anymore (see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/myunity/3.1.5-0ubuntu1)
<marga> ugh
<marga> Can it still be uploaded to precise?
<geser> as a SRU? sure
<geser> !SRU
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<marga> tnx
<geser> the sponsoring is the same, just a little bit more paper work on the bug itself
<marga> Yes, I get it.
<marga> :-/
<marga> Is it the same process if the current version is already in precise-backports?
<geser> hmm, good question
<geser> ScottK (or any other Ubuntu backporter): how to update a package in -backports when the package got deleted in the devel series?
<shadeslayer> I'm trying to figure out how to make a portion of my postinst script run only when the package is installed the first time, so can I just check if $2 is zero and run my commands?
<shadeslayer> or is there another/simpler way to do it
<marga> shadeslayer, as far as I know, it's how you said.
<shadeslayer> alright, I'll go with taht for now
<Laney> $1 is configure and $2 is empty, yeah
<shadeslayer> *that
<Laney> make sure you don't break on remove/install though
<shadeslayer> my script calls dpkg-divert, so I don't want to run that on upgrade
<shadeslayer> Laney: oh?
<Laney> you need to undo whatever it is you do on remove
<shadeslayer> right ... I don't handle that atm
<shadeslayer> had that on my todo for tomorrow
<shadeslayer> alright, thanks :)
<geser> Laney: as you also deal with backports, do you know how to update a package in precise-backports which got deleted from quantal?
<Laney> not sure we have a precedent for that
<marga> ouch
<Laney> ScottK: ?
<marga> The package is myunity.  It got deleted because it doesn't work with the unity version in quantal.  But it works with precise, oneiric and natty.
<marga> I have prepared an upload with 3 patches for 3 bugs.
<Laney> I think we could probably do it
<Laney> do the bug fixes apply to all releases we backported to?
<xnox> =( i want myunity =(
<ScottK> geser: That's a really good question.  I don't recall it coming up before.  Are you talking about a new version or fixing a bug with the existing version in backports?
<l3on> Hi all.. why if I use bzr lp-propose it files my propose to being merge into debian ?
<l3on> example: https://code.launchpad.net/~l3on/ubuntu/quantal/smbldap-tools/merge/+merge/125754
<mfisch> MOTUs, a process question: if Ubuntu and Debian are both out of date for a package (newer version upstream), is there any link between Ubuntu and Debian updating?  What I mean is if we update a package is it up to Debian to also do the update or would we (Ubuntu) send our debdiff and/or patches to debian?
<micahg> mfisch: ideally, the update could be pushed through Debian (but the maintainer has to be willing to update)
<micahg> mfisch: which package?
<tumbleweed> syncing things from Debian is easy
<tumbleweed> getting things from Ubuntu into debian tends to be a little bit harder
<micahg> (not everyone wants to upload stuff to experimental during the freeze either)
<Laney> weirdos, experimental is where all the fun happens
<mfisch> micahg: just in general, I was looking at the list of outdated packages and wondering the process
<micahg> mfisch: yeah, so best is to have an update in Debian (if you have team membership there or NMU if the package update qualifies)
<mfisch> micahg: here's a simple one, "six", from this list: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/desktop.html
<micahg> mfisch: that's cjwatson's package and he's usually on top of stuff...probably not updating for a reason at this point
<mfisch> so ideally colin (the maintainer) or someone else would push to debian first
<micahg> but speaking in general, yes
<micahg> we've got upgrade requests here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=upgrade-software-version
<micahg> but since we're past feature freeze, most are unlikely to be addressed unless needed for quantal specifically
<Laney> we can upload to backports now :-)
<micahg> well, in general, most are unlikely to be addressed unless it happens in Debian first
<Laney> (someone should make the q-backports project)
<micahg> Laney: indeed, was waiting for midori to get uploaded to Debian to try it
<micahg> I was going to create the project
<mfisch> micahg: so for someone looking to get experience in this process (updating packages) is that bug list a good place to start?
 * micahg isn't sure he has enough permissions to add it to ubp though
<Laney> there is a list of ubuntu only packages which are outdated
<micahg> mfisch: yeah, not a bad place to start, but most of those should probably be done in Debian
<micahg> Laney is referring to http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html
<micahg> that list isn't Ubuntu only though which is weird...
<Laney> possibly is it pointing at testing
<micahg> yeah
<cjwatson> mfisch: Oh, I only missed that because apparently I didn't have a watch file
<cjwatson> So it didn't show up on http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=cjwatson%40debian.org
<mfisch> cjwatson: I just mailed you one ;)
<cjwatson> Wait, I *do* have a watch file
<cjwatson> What's going on
<cjwatson> And it works with uscan --verbose --report
<mfisch> cjwatson: six doesn't have a watch file, not one that I see
<cjwatson> Oh well, I'll update the package
<mfisch> cjwatson: I did write one
<cjwatson> Heh
<Laney> doesn't have one in the archive, anyhow
<cjwatson> I committed it to bzr a while back
<cjwatson> But I never uploaded it
<cjwatson> timestamp: Sun 2012-01-22 15:14:03 +0000
<mfisch> ah
<cjwatson> So how did ~platform/desktop/desktop.html find the new upstream for six if not from a watch file, incidentaly?
<cjwatson> *incidentally
<mfisch> good question
<dupondje> I know this isn't really the right place, but has anyone an idea about the following stacktrace: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=28BEEaS3 ?
<jtaylor> someone familiar with php packaging?'
<jtaylor> nevermind not php's fault
<jtaylor> if a core-dev is bored I might need some rebuilds
<geser> ScottK: marga wants has 3 patches for myunity ready, but myunity isn't in quantal anymore so asked instead if the version in precise-backports can still be fixed
<micahg> quantal-backports registered
<Laney> nice
<mfisch> micahg: Here's my sync request: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfonts-mathml/+bug/1054324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054324 in xfonts-mathml (Ubuntu) "Please sync xfonts-mathml v6 from Debian unstable" [Medium,In progress]
<mfisch> we have no Ubuntu specific changes and it builds fine
 * mfisch fixes priority
<micahg> mfisch: so, first, you want to use requestsync to request syncs
<ScottK> geser: It seems reasonable to allow fixes like that.
<mfisch> micahg: ok, it looked to be optional in the wiki, but I can redo with that, no problem
<micahg> mfisch: second, we do have a diff with the package
<mfisch> micahg: oh, I was looking for patches, but yes there is a diff in the control file
<micahg> mfisch: you can cut/paste from requestsync for this one and use it in the future, it fills in the changelog from the differences automatically as well as warning you if there's an Ubuntu diff, use the -e option if you need a feature freeze exception
<geser> ScottK: as direct upload to precise-backports? and can it that be backported from precise-backports to oneiric-backports if needed/wanted?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> do the bugs affect the released version too?
<Laney> (you know where this is going)
<micahg> mfisch: PTS page is useful as well: http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfonts-mathml.html
<micahg> mfisch: you'll also want to make sure that our font packages transitioned like the Debian ones did
<geser> Laney: no idea, better ask marga about it/the patches
<Laney> filling the backports bug is probably a good start
<geser> marga: ^^
<mfisch> micahg: what do you mean by "transitioned"?
<micahg> mfisch: that we have the new binary packages that the control file (and the built binaries) will expect
<ScottK> geser: Definitely.
<micahg> mfisch: the package renames in version 6
<mfisch> micahg: I don't see a renaming, where are you looking?
<micahg>     - otf-stix -> fonts-stix and moved in Recommends because STIX fonts
<micahg>       was now officially released (not beta version).
<micahg>     - ttf-lyx -> fonts-lyx in Recommends. (Closes: #676489, #676492, #676497)
<mfisch> ah, I was looking at the uupdate processed version, let me get a clean copy
<micahg> mfisch: try grab-merge
<mfisch> micahg: right, so Ubuntu still is using the old package names
<micahg> mfisch: not in the current Ubuntu version, but what is in the Ubuntu archive (you can use rmadison to check that)
<mfisch> micahg: grab-merge is very useful, thanks
<micahg> *current Ubuntu xfonts-mathml version, but what font binaries are in the archive
<mfisch> micahg: yep, there they are for quantal
<micahg> mfisch: ok, then the next questions are is it just bug fixes or does it need a feature freeze exception? (build system changes usually need a feature freeze exception just to show that the binary still has the desired contents)
<mfisch> micahg: it contains bug fixes
<micahg>    * Introduced dh_installxfonts now.
<mfisch> micahg: also pitti's patch for the 0.4 version still should apply since the lyx fonts are not in main
<micahg> IANA release team member, so not sure if that qualifies
<mfisch> micahg: so you meant "only bug fixes"
<mfisch> micahg: the answer to that is "no"
<mfisch> micahg: actually you did ask it that way
<mfisch> micahg: I misread
<micahg> packaging corrections == bug fixes
<micahg> packaging changes ~= features
<mfisch> right
<mfisch> adding dh_installxfonts to the rules file is more of a correction isn't it?
<micahg> well, the rules file was changed from using ~10 dh statements, to just one
<micahg> as I said, IANA release team member, maybe one of them can comment (I'd probably just ask in IRC if they want an FFe for this)
<mfisch> let me properly file the syncrequest
<micahg> mfisch: also, so, this is a merge, not a sync, since we need to keep the diff, it's generally good practice to ask the person who touched it last if they plan on working on it
<micahg> this prevents duplication of work
<mfisch> sync is only valid then if we have absolutely no changes?
<micahg> or if the changes aren't needed anymore
<Laney> sync means 'copy this package from somewhere else'
<mfisch> I believe we still need the control file change
<mfisch> micahg: so can I file a merge request, then take the debian version, make the control file change and build the package, I can then attach the debdiff from 6ubuntu1 to 4ubuntu1
<micahg> mfisch: that debdiff and the one from the new debian package to the merged package (which the sponsor will apply to the Debian package before uploading)
<mfisch> micahg: got it
<mfisch> micahg: is there a special tool for merge requests?
<micahg> mfisch: but ideally, before you started, you'd want to ask pitti if he was working on it
<mfisch> micahg: ok
<mfisch> micahg: in this case I'll go ahead since I'm learning the process and I'll email pitti a note
<micahg> mfisch: no, I've kicked around the idea for one for a while, you could just use requestsync and edit it to say merge
<mfisch> if he's doing it already, he can toss my work, no big deal
<micahg> then remove ubuntu-sponsors until the debdiffs are attached
<mfisch> micahg: ok
<micahg> mfisch: also good to check on merges.ubuntu.com to see if anyone is working on it
<mfisch> micahg: there's some stuff there, does that mean it's being worked on?  https://merges.ubuntu.com/x/xfonts-mathml/
<mfisch> looks like it was automated
<mfisch> but failed
<micahg> mfisch: no, I mean here: https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<mfisch> micahg: it's listed as outstanding
<micahg> mfisch: right, which means it hasn't been merged this cycle yet, you'll want to look at the comments column to see if there's anything relevant there
<mfisch> micahg: okay, I've got my bug and did my changes/debdiffs, I need to do some final testing, here's the bug: eowner's insurance, and health insurance are all taxes too?  T
<mfisch> oops! paste fail
<mfisch> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfonts-mathml/+bug/1054353
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054353 in xfonts-mathml (Ubuntu) "FFe: merge xfonts-mathml 6 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<micahg> mfisch: well, you didn't ascertain if an FFe is needed, but if it would be, what they'd want to see is an sbuild log that includes a list of the contents of the built binaries
<mfisch> micahg: I can remove that part from the bug, should I ask the release team on IRC?
<micahg> mfisch: well, the release people dealing with universe usually lurk in here
<micahg> mfisch: you'll also want to close the bug in your debdiff
<mfisch> in the changelog you mean?
<micahg> yep
<mfisch> ok
<cjwatson> mfisch: six 1.2.0-1 uploaded to Debian now.  But new upstreams really aren't a priority for quantal at this point so I probably won't bother syncing it
<mfisch> cjwatson: no worries, I was looking for a package to experiment with the process on
<cjwatson> mm.  this particular part of the process might be generally better at the start of the R cycle ...
<cjwatson> unless you find things that are genuinely interesting bug fixes of course
<mfisch> cjwatson: when does R open up?
<mfisch> micahg: updated
<micahg> well, we've still got over 200 packages that haven't been merged this cycle yet, but yeah, bug fixes, especially RC ones should probably come first at this point
<cjwatson> mfisch: within a week (at the outside, usually earlier) after 12.10 releases
<cjwatson> I like that part of the cycle so usually try to do it quickly :-)
<Laney> woe is forgetting to start a long remote build in screen
<Laney> (webkit)
<micahg> Laney: it's painful :)
<micahg> Laney: care to comment on the FFe necessity of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfonts-mathml/+bug/1054353/+attachment/3329883/+files/4ubuntu1_to_6ubuntu1.debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054353 in xfonts-mathml (Ubuntu) "merge xfonts-mathml 6 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<Laney> micahg: probably doesn't need one
<mfisch> Laney: thanks
<Laney> are the maintainer scripts correct in light of using dh_installxfonts?
<Laney> its man page mentions that it generates maintainer script snippers
<Laney> ts
<Laney> maybe best to check
<mfisch> postinst is pretty much empty, but postrm has code in it
<mfisch> looks like both of those will be regenerated by installxdonts
<mfisch> fonts I mean
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-22
<ttilley> ...are the CDBS helper includes still usable if you have multiple source trees as part of a source package? for example, if server X depends on a funky patched version of library Y specific to X, and each has its own configure script?
<ttilley> i'm new to this. be gentle.
<Laney> ttilley: I suppose how integrated in the build system it is
<Laney> if you have to run multiple commands to build the package, then probably not
<Laney> I suppose *it depends* â¦
<obounaim> #ubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-23
<super-nathan> Heelo!
<super-nathan> (crap) Hello!
<borneo> hello sages. I come to you asking for your wisdom.
<borneo> I'm trying to build add a new flavor of a package and want to know if there is a tool to help aid creating the /debian entries.
<jtaylor> dh-make
<borneo> In specific, I having downloading nginx from   apt-get source nginx, I have been able to customize one of the packages to my liking, but would rather not have it interfere with current flavors, but make my own
<borneo> jtaylor: how would one go about creating an nginx-mega flavor with dh-make? if I have the apt-get source?
<jtaylor> I don't understand, why do you need a tool to create dewbian/ if you base on an existing package?
<borneo> I can set the rules to properly build a binary fine, by th eway
<borneo> jtaylor: yes, i want to add a flavor to an existing package. the debian folder has all these files and folders dedicated to each flavor, it looks as if I need to recreate them by hand?
<jtaylor> just copy them?
<jtaylor> also what do you mean with flavor?
<borneo> flavor as in, FLAVOURS:=full light extras naxsi in the debian/rules file of nginx
<borneo> is this not normal packaging parlance perhaps?
<jtaylor> no its something specific to nginx
<borneo> ah that explains much
<borneo> so perhaps this is a unique use case where it is manual
<borneo> thank for you for help jtaylor. I appreciate it.
<jtaylor> looks like you will have to add another BUILDDIR in rules, an approriate configure and then copy the appropriate debian files to install from that builddir
<borneo> jtaylor: that is exactly what i'm doing
<cseslam> hi guys
<cseslam> i am writing an application called "Tahrir", its a text editor
<cseslam> can i push it to the ubuntu repository ?
<cseslam> "ppa:cseslam/tahrir"
<tumbleweed> cseslam: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages - we prefer new packages to go thorugh Debian
<TheLordOfTime> can someone dump me the link to the procedure(s) for requesting PPU rights?
<TheLordOfTime> i've lost the link again :/
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard
<TheLordOfTime> thanks tumbleweed
<Laney>  /j #ubuntu-unity
<Laney> OH WOE
<iulian> No worries. :)
<ajmitch> and laney reveals the s3cr3t channel
<ajmitch> fwiw, you can run the lens daemon yourself & get stdout/stderr ;)
<Laney> you answer in a different channel?!
<ajmitch> lazy
<Laney> iulian: say, how is your name pronounced?
<Laney> I tried to say it on the phone the other day but couldn't :P
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-16
<jtaylor> ok, done
<jtaylor> I feel uneasy with doing unbuilt source only upload but the change is small :)
<micahg> you know the story with small changes, right?
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-17
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<chilicuil> mfisch: hi, sorry to bother, I've seen you are active in the ubuntu accomplishment system, I wonder if you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~chilicuil/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/qa-write-tests/+merge/185664 , if you're too busy that's fine, I'll wait for jono input
<mfisch> chilicuil: sure I can look either tonight or tomorrow
<chilicuil> mfisch: cool, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-18
<dholbach> good morning
<zequence> Anyone available for a fairly simple upload (artwork update)? lp:ubuntustudio-menu
<Noskcaj> What's the process for syncing a package that depends on a virtual package?
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: No different from syncing anything else, normally.  Example?
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, a program called transcriber. It's got two RC bugs fixed in the latest debian release, but won't pdebuild because "Depends: tcl-snack-dev which is a virtual package.                                 Depends: tclex (>= 1.2a1-3) but it is not going to be installed.
<Noskcaj> tclex is -15 in saucy and tcl-snack-dev is tcl-snack2-dev
<cjwatson> That may just be a bug in your builder configuration.
<cjwatson> Let me try the current Debian version in sbuild.
<Noskcaj> ok, then i should request a sync?
<cjwatson> Let me try the current Debian version in sbuild.
<Noskcaj> ok
<cjwatson> (sbuild is generally a more reliable match for what LP does than pbuilder is.)
<cjwatson> (Especially when run with --resolve-alternatives.)
<cjwatson> However, no, this package doesn't build in saucy right now, so you can't sync it.
<cjwatson> But "virtual package" is a bad way to describe it, even though apt sometimes says that when it's sort of heard of a package from somewhere but not really
<cjwatson> sbuild says:
<cjwatson> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<cjwatson>  sbuild-build-depends-transcriber-dummy : Depends: tcl-snack-dev but it is not installable
<cjwatson> It needs a new snack first, although that's a fairly substantial delta right now.
<Noskcaj> ok
<cjwatson> For saucy it would probably be wiser to cherry-pick the fixes to transcriber.
<Noskcaj> I'll have a look at that when i get home
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-19
<dholbach> good morning
<Noskcaj> jbicha, Can you take another look at bug 1221913 ? armhf has now been fixed, although it looks like i might have to get an FFe
<ubottu> bug 1221913 in tbb (Ubuntu) "Sync tbb 4.1~20130613-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221913
<Noskcaj> It's the first release that will build on all ubuntu versions AFAIK
<jbicha> Noskcaj: please apply for a ffe, but I don't know whether I'll be available to sponsor it or not
<Noskcaj> jbicha, done, now i wait
<Rhonda> hmm, I seem to remember the channel wrongly, #ubuntu-admin is empty?
 * Rhonda wants tmux on jubany.  *frowns*
<cjwatson> Rhonda: #canonical-sysadmin
<Rhonda> As an excuse, I was in #canonical-admin, but that one didn't even had chanserv. :)
<Rhonda> cjwatson, thanks yet again
<mapreri> I'm dealing with a rules file, to update it to dh9. The configure step need an environment variable, but I'm not sure if this work: "EXT2FS_LIBS="-lext2fs -lcom_err" dh_auto_configure -- \" (etc) (before there was a direct call to ./configure)
<mapreri> works*
<jtaylor> it should work
<jtaylor> you can also call configure yourself if you already override dh_auto_configure
<mapreri> jtaylor: thanks for the information :)
<jtaylor> actually yo can put the VAR=.. after the auto_configure --
<mapreri> jtaylor: after?
<jtaylor> shouldn#t make a difference
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-20
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<Laney> hallo
<Laney> happy friday my masters
<geser> Laney: are you a slave then? :) (and a happy friday you too)
<Laney> geser: feels like it :P
<iulian> geser: I think by 'master' he meant a young boy... although he's not that young. *g*
<iulian> Or is he? :)
<Laney> haha
<tumbleweed> naah, he's a slave
<Laney> no, geser had it right
<Laney> ScottK: do we ask for r-recommends testing for backports? /me can't remember
<Laney> ScottK: wait, nm, the requestbackport blurb says not
<Noskcaj> What is the process for having a package dropped from the ubuntu archive?
<Noskcaj> libfame has been removed from debian and has no reverse depends other than it's own -dev package
<Laney> file bug, get ack from ubuntu developer (via sponsors), subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Laney> sponsor will usually do the last step for you
<Noskcaj> ok
<cjwatson> also
<cjwatson> we process Debian removals in bulk
<cjwatson> so actually you don't really need to file bugs unless they seem to be lagging
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: http://packages.qa.debian.org/libf/libfame.html has never heard of libfame though - what's the actual package name here?
<Noskcaj> libfame-0.9
<cjwatson> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libf/libfame-0.9.html  still doesn't exist
<cjwatson> source package name?
<Noskcaj> It seems to have been out of debian since before oldstable
<cjwatson> oh, hm
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfame
<cjwatson> usually it's on packages.qa anyway ...
<Laney> is this a debian-multimedia sync?
<geser> looks like it
<Laney> removals-full doesn't have it
<cjwatson> Yeah, so "has been removed from Debian" isn't actually true then
<geser> last upload in edgy
<cjwatson> I think it's still reasonable to clean up unused stuff we're carrying from that frankly rather misguided "sync from ALL the archives" experiment, but you'd indeed need to file a bug
<sauerbraten> hello there! I came to ask you to update a package in the multiverse branch: http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/sauerbraten
<sauerbraten> I'm a big fan of this game (see my name), I'm not the developer though (that would be eihrul here on freenode). Since the package in ubuntu's repos is about 3 or 4 releases behind, could it please be updated so people don't download an old version of the game and wonder why there are no servers to play on?
<sauerbraten> hello there! I came to ask you to update a package in the multiverse branch: http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/sauerbraten
<sauerbraten> I'm a big fan of this game (see my name), I'm not the developer though (that would be eihrul here on freenode). Since the package in ubuntu's repos is about 3 or 4 releases behind, could it please be updated so people don't download an old version of the game and wonder why there are no servers to play on?
<Noskcaj> sauerbraten, I'll look into it, since good games helps us a lot, but it's probably too late in the cycle
<sauerbraten> Noskcaj: thanks! any cycle would be great :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-21
<savvas> is python-all (2.x) required for python3 builds for ubuntu saucy? I get an error "dh_auto_clean: failed to run pyversions" when I try to build a python3 program
<savvas> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/151060488/buildlog.txt.gz
<savvas> oh and hello :)
<jtaylor> which debian/compat?
<jtaylor> there are some python2 stuff run by default on low compats
<jtaylor> < 9 probably
<savvas> I've just changed it to 9.. hold a sec let me check
<jtaylor> you may have to override the buildsystem
<jtaylor> as python_distutils is wrong for python3 only
<jtaylor> its autodetected from setup.py
<savvas> ah you're right, it does use distutils: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ffmulticonverter/ffmulticonverter/master/view/head:/setup.py
<jtaylor> there is no buildsystem support for python3 yet in < saucy
<jtaylor> you may be able to do --buildsystem=none to prevent the python2 dependency
<jtaylor> not sure, never built a py3 only package
<savvas> there's no harm in using python-all in build-depends/depends though, right?
<jtaylor> depends
<jtaylor> if you don't override clean build and install it may try to run python2 setup.py which can fail
<savvas> ok, I'll try adding it and see what happens with the created package. I'll also try the buildsystem=none option. Thank you very much :)
<ScottK> jtaylor: It's generally better for this case for < saucy to just override dh_autobuild and loop over the python3 versions executing setup.py.
<sauerbraten> I asked about udpating a package yesterday but can't remember who said they'd have a loo at it
<sauerbraten> oh right, Noskcaj :)
<Noskcaj> sauerbraten, I looked and it seems there is no one to maintain the package in debian. If you'd like to i'd be willing to help you set up, my internet is too slow to packaging it myself
<sauerbraten> Noskcaj: sure, let's do that
<Noskcaj> Do you have any experience with packaging?
<sauerbraten> not really, no
<Noskcaj> Can you go to the irc server irc.oftc.net? It's where debian is. There a proper teams there for teaching how to package, and the games team is there
<sauerbraten> I'll do that. Do you know what channel I should ask in?
<Noskcaj> #debian-mentors for help, #debian-games for sauerbraten.
<Noskcaj> I'll be on both and i'll try and help
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-22
<bkerensa> can someone remind me the bzr command to generate a diff?
<Noskcaj> bkerensa, isn't if just bzr diff?
<Noskcaj> And add "| tee FILENAME" if you want the output in a file
<bkerensa> Noskcaj: I just ended up doing bzr diff -r-2..-1 > ../my-super-awesome.debdiff
 * smartboyhw thinks that debdiff is a valid command -.-
<cjwatson> bkerensa: bzr diff -clast: (or -c-1)
<bkerensa> cjwatson: is this better?
<cjwatson> -r-2..-1 is irritating to type
<cjwatson> and redundant when you can use the syntax for selecting changes introduced by a single revision instead
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-15
<reversiblean> "Ubuntu Development Release ISO's are updated daily, which means you will have to sync everyday the ISO you intend to launch, if you want to have the latest ISO" ... Does that mean I have to download the whole image everyday?
<mapreri> reversiblean: there is zsync
<reversiblean> mapreri: ok thanks, just trying to give MOTU a shot
<mapreri> ^^
<reversiblean> Is it okay to run "$ pbuilder-dist <current-dev-release> create" in a different (stable) release?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> that's quite common
<reversiblean> Laney: ok, thanks. how long usually it takes? it seems to me that it is downloading whole lot of packages.
<reversiblean> Laney: never mind. It had just completed.
<Laney> reversiblean: good, it can take a while depending on your connection speed
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-16
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> meow
<ogra_> moo
<iulian> Woof.
<bluesabre> chirp
<reversiblean> let's say i want to fix a bitesize bug like 'typo' :) Do I have to pull whole branch using 'bzr branch'?
<shadeslayer> reversiblean: yes
<reversiblean> shadeslayer: okay! but it takes too long though.
<Ampelbein> reversiblean: You don't need the complete history to do a small fix. I seem to remember there was a bzr option to only get the current state.
<Ampelbein> reversiblean: --lightweight
<shadeslayer> but then you want to commit and push
<reversiblean> Ampelbein: thanks for the info. that's what i was looking for.
<shadeslayer> to your own branch
<shadeslayer> would that work with --lightweight?
<Ampelbein> Let me try.
<Ampelbein> Meh, seems to download the whole branch when pushing.
<Ampelbein> But you can use it to create a debdiff and attach that to the bugreport. Seems more sensible than pointlessly downloading hundreds of MB of data.
<onli> hi. i have a strange problem with launchpads ppa-system
<Ampelbein> onli: What is the problem?
<onli> Ampelbein, I pushed a new code version to https://launchpad.net/~onli/+archive/ubuntu/simdock, that is not changing the build process. but the resulting package for i386 spits an "unknown machine command" error at a specific point of the program (when clicking an icon) that is not there on a local compile
<onli> I do know that error only from trying programs for amd64 on i386, but this is after the program itself started. So i'm stumped what's happening there
<Ampelbein> Let me check.
<Ampelbein> Does that happen for all releases?
<onli> I only checked the i386-version, but if you mean for all of the packages ever made: no, that is new
<onli> it worked before
<Ampelbein> No, I mean if it happens in Utopic and Trusty for example or only on Utopic
<onli> ah, ok. Trusty, I only tested trusty
<Ampelbein> Hmm, I can't see anything obviously wrong.
<Ampelbein> Sorry.
<onli> Ok, thanks for trying
<reversiblean> Ampelbein: Why do I get "bzr: ERROR: lp:~reversiblean/+junk/<pkg-name> has no associated product or source package." when running 'bzr lp-propose'?
<onli> I'll idle a while, if someone has an ideaâ¦ I seriously have not one idea apart from "the build system must differ"
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-17
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-18
<dholbach> good morning
<Logan_> dholbach: mind a PM?
<dholbach> Logan_, not at all
<Unit193> quadrispro: 1. Thanks for the gmusicbrowser upload.  2. Is there any reason I should request to be in the LP pkg-multimedia group?  3. Sorry for not seeing it, but is there a page that outlines when someone should be added to 'uploaders'?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-19
<geser> Unit193: "Uploaders" is only relevant to Debian, so you can ignore it when working on Ubuntu packages
<dholbach> good morning
<quadrispro> Unit193, if you'd like to be added to the Uploaders list, you are welcome to do it yourself, there is no strict rule to follow
<quadrispro> Unit193, regarding LP's pkg-multimedia, that membership is to get access to team's PPA
<quadrispro> except for that, there is no more particular benefits in being part of LP's team
<quadrispro> Unit193, I should have the needed privileges to add you, if you like
<Unit193> quadrispro: Ah, ok.  Thanks.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-21
<vincent_c> Noskcaj: geary 0.8 is in debian sid now, if you're interested in dealing with a freeze exception to get it merged into utopic
<filipsohajek> Hello, can i get sponsorship of some packages here?
<Elimin8er> people dont say much in here, do they ?
<Noskcaj> vincent_c, I don't use geary, do you think it's worthwhile?
<Elimin8er> I have been running ubuntu for a long time on a what I call and older system. its a Dell Inspiron-3521 AKA 15, and just today I rebooted and when it started back up, I got This error: " ubuntu has been blocked by the current security policy ", When I findly disabled secure boot it worked again.. and yes Im in EFI modes.. anyhow.. its never done this before.. any ideas ???
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-14
<dholbach> good morning
<cking> hiya, is it possible for cpustat to be handled as feature freeze exception and sync'd into wily (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1489991)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1489991 in Ubuntu "[FFE] sync cpustat 0.01.23-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<rbasak> cking: looks like 0.01.24-1 is in wily?
<cking> rbasak, doh, how can I have missed that, oops
<cking> is it possible for numatop to be handled as a feature dreeze exeption for Wily.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1495439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495439 in Ubuntu " [FFe]: [needs-packaging] numatop" [High,In progress]
<rbasak> cking: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1487538/comments/2 is relevant here I think. AFAICT no FFe required here.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487538 in Ubuntu "Add dpdk to wily universe" [Wishlist,New]
<rbasak> That should be in the wiki really. I'll update it.
<cking> rbasak, ah, didn't know that
<rbasak> cking: actually it's contrary to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze_for_new_packages it seems
<cking> rbasak, now that is confusing
<rbasak> cking: I've asked infinity in #ubuntu-devel.
<cking> rbasak, ta
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-15
<dholbach> good morning
<sil2100> Morning!
<Laney> micahg: do you think we could/should call for more backporters?
 * Laney is bad at processing the incoming requests and feels bad :(
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-16
<micahg> Laney: yes, I actually have two proposals to make (one I think we meant to announce, but never actually went through with it)
<micahg> I think I've been the only one processing backports as of late and the last two weeks I just haven't had the time, I should be able to process some this week
<Logan> micahg: I'd definitely be interested in helping
<Logan> nhandler would like to help backport packages as well
<nhandler> Hmm...Sure, why not :)
<micahg> hi nhandler :)
<nhandler> o/ It sure has been a while
<micahg> hi Logan, great, I should probably prepare an email or something, but backports has similar ACLs to -proposed, so MOTUs can upload universe packages (following the appropriate backports procedures) and a backporter can accept from the queue, Open backport issues are listed here: https://launchpad.net/ubp (there are subprojects for each release, you can safely ignore any issues/tasks in a release that's EOL), you'll want to make sure that the bac
<micahg> kport criteria is met per the information in the description, more info about building/testing/requesting here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
<Logan> awesome, I'll take a look
<Logan> on a similar note, I feel like there should be a better way to see open bugs for packages in series that are not the development one
<Logan> like, a certain package might say there aren't any bugs
<Logan> but there might be ones that were Fix Released but still have open tasks in the other releases
<micahg> right, I wonder if there's a launchpad bug, my launchpad foo isn't what it used to be
<Logan> I feel like Launchpad has been neglected for a while now, but that's probably not giving enough respect to Canonical engineers
<Logan> I guess most effort has been backend, like buildds, recently
<micahg> there are less people working on it now than before, it's still open source and developers can feel free to contribute: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<Logan> hmm, maybe I should try tackling some bugs
<Logan> I should make a Docker image for it
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> micahg: if one of them is letting people upload stuff to the queue themselves (using regular sponsoring?) then ++
<Laney> still worried about actually processing the queue though
<Laney> queue*s*
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-17
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-18
<reversib2ean> I'm trying to compile git://anongit.freedesktop.org/zeitgeist/zeitgeist
<reversib2ean> But it's throwing lot of unmet package errors. How do I find the required packages to compile this successfully?
<reversib2ean> exit
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-19
<TheMaster> Rhonda: FWIW, if your reason for not applying https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=761123 is testing, I've tested it since about 2014-11-26.
<ubottu> Debian bug 761123 in src:irssi "Please enable hardened build flags" [Important,Open]
<TheMaster> Also, did ahf ever look at 20fix_ssl_proxy_hostname_check?
<Rhonda> TheMaster, reason might be I haven't looked at it at all yet. xD
<Rhonda> I'm still hoping for a way to make the ubuntu diff unneeded, in the way to have different series files â¦
<Rhonda> Maybe I should finally switch to dh style debian/rules, too.  It still makes things more complicated for complcated things, and having to wade around in hopefully better documentation these days, but still needs the documentation consulting every now and then when something pops up, which is kinda annoying.  I prefered the readable and clear debian/rules so far.
<Rhonda> About the ssl_proxy_hostname_check patch, I'm uncertain right now to be honest.
<Rhonda> I once went through the patches with upstream, I think exg was still hanging around at that time, so â¦ no clue right now. :)
<reversib1ean> I'm upgrading a package to new upstream version. But the package includes over 50 patches. DO I have to go through (quilt push) each patch or is there a workaround?
<teward> reversib1ean: you have to figure out which patches were applied, yes.  Reading through changelogs and patch descriptions never hurts, because you can figure if the patches are already applied in the latest upstream version
<Rhonda> quilt push -a # and hope for the best
<teward> ^
<reversib1ean> ok I'll see.
<reversib1ean> Rhonda: -a didn't help much though : ) still going 1 by 1
<Laney> if it says that the patch can be reverse-applied then that's a good hint that it is in this upstream release
<Laney> otherwise it is indeed a matter of fixing them up
<Laney> or otherwise considering them (e.g. no longer necessary and can be dropped)
<reversib1ean> right now i'm forcing each one of them
<Laney> you need to refresh after force to make the .patch file actually get updated
<Laney> but that is unlikely to be a good idea as they will be only partially applied
<reversib1ean> Laney: i'm doing it in order. but some says 'reverse applied' and some says 'enforce with -f'. is that normal?
<Laney> -f is like "apply as much as you can"
<Laney> but it'll tell you which bits it couldn't do and you should fix that
<Laney> (then 'quilt refresh')
<Laney> reverse applied is usually 'drop this patch'
<reversib1ean> Laney: oops, then I've done everything wrong them. I just ran -f for everything except those that can be reverse applied
<reversib1ean> *wrong then
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-20
<Unit193> Rhonda: Right now, you can't eliminate it entirely.  Debian uses the libval support while Ubuntu doesn't because some silly rules about irssi being in main and dnsval not.
<reversib1ean> does running pbuilder-dist for the current working release instead of the development release speed up the download process?
<Rhonda> Unit193: Oh, didn't know that part, thanks for mentioning it!
<Unit193> Of course, though cutting down the delta is always nice.  I asked about that specific patch becaues vorlon refreshed and re-applied it.
<Unit193> I experimented with the different patches, seemed to work fine.
<Unit193> Erm, that is, series/ubuntu.series.
<Rhonda> Can you publish that git somewhere so I can pull?  Or git format-patch and send it to me?
<Unit193> I, err, lost it since .17 was published, rebased my stuff and that had no importance to me.  I can look into it again though.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-09-19
* TheJapsAreComing changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: THE JAPS ARE COMING!
<TheJapsAreComing> THE JAPS ARE COMING!
<TheJapsAreComing> !ops THE JAPS ARE COMING!
<ubottu> TheJapsAreComing: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<rbasak> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elky, rww, PriceChild, or jpds!
<TheJapsAreComing> !ops
<TheJapsAreComing> lol
* Unit193 changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Xenial released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
<sladen> Unit193: ta!
<Unit193> Thanks go to dholbach. :)
<sladen> dholbach: and dholbach!
<dholbach> anytime :)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-09-20
<Rhonda> Ah, makes sense that #ubuntu-security is invite-only.  Can someone of those hanging out there reach out to me in a query?  Potentially someone I know already and can trust? :)
<Rhonda> s/and/know &/
<Rhonda> meh, the know is in there, I can't read.
<rbasak> Rhonda: try #ubuntu-hardened
<rbasak> Rhonda: also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Contact
<sladen> mdeslaur: chrisccoulson: sbeattie: ^^ could one of you get in touch with Rhonda from Debian re: -security
<Rhonda> Ah, no combined key for the security@ email address, that might get cumbersome.
<sladen> Rhonda: well back in the old days mdz was both security@d.o and security@u.c :)
<Rhonda> sladen: I remember that. :)
<Rhonda> â¦ and security@d.o already has the information, so if there is still any overlap I can drop that issue now. :)
<rbasak> I believe the lack of a combined key is for security reasons - to allow for security team rotation
<Rhonda> Sure.  But either a new key could be issued, or if there is no trust in the team members the team has much more severe issues than rotational wise. :)
 * rbasak shrugs
<rbasak> Not much to do with me :)
<mdeslaur> hi Rhonda
<mdeslaur> #ubuntu-hardened is the security channel
<mdeslaur> not sure what #ubuntu-security is
<mdeslaur> I think it just redirects
<mdeslaur> Rhonda: what can I do for you?
#ubuntu-motu 2016-09-21
<Rhonda> mdeslaur, chrisccoulson, sbeattie: Ok, now that the irssi issue is public, can I help you somehow about that update? :)  Upstream handed me patch files for 0.8.17 and 0.8.19 which might be useful for you.
<mdeslaur> Rhonda: we published updates already: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3086-1/
<sbeattie> yakkety is caught in the upload queue beta freeze : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<sbeattie> Rhonda: but thanks for offering!
<Rhonda> mdeslaur: That speaks only of 16.04, what about wily?
<mdeslaur> Rhonda: wily is no longer supported
<Rhonda> Oh, right.
<Rhonda> Good, then I go fix the packages website, I'm lagging behind there it seems. :)
<mdeslaur> Rhonda: thanks for the patch offer
<Rhonda> Guess you got that through the embargo list anyway.
<Rhonda> I would have loved to get rid of the merge need for yakkety, together with that update, but I failed to deliver in time. :/
<Unit193> Rhonda: I'll take the .17 one, or pull from the git repo if you already pushed it.
<Rhonda> take .17 one for wha?
<Unit193> The patch for irssi 0.8.17, that is.
<Rhonda> Ah, wait.
<masetrax> Hi everyone, I'm running through the pbuilder wiki (specfically this url: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Rebuilding_a_package) and I'm wondering about uncommenting the deb-src. They have each repository on a single line (main restricted universe multiverse) whereas my apt list is separated into separate lines. Do I just uncomment all of these where applicable?
<cjwatson> Yep, doesn't really matter whether that's together or separate.
<masetrax> Thanks cjwatson
#ubuntu-motu 2016-09-22
<masetrax> Can anyone shed some light onto why my pbuild is failing? I am trying to follow the pbuilder guide as I eventually want to help the motu team. Struggling to make head or toe of it. See the terminal output here: http://pastebin.com/BmGe3Zg3
<masetrax> I'm off to bed now, but will scrollback in the morning. Thanks in advance to anyone who may know!
<cjwatson> masetrax: looks like your pbuilder chroot doesn't have universe enabled
<cjwatson> (sources.list or similar; I don't use pbuilder myself)
<jtaylor> masetrax: in pbuilder you can add universe via COMPONENTS="main universe" to chroots
<jtaylor> in .pbuilderrc
<masetrax> Thanks cjwatson and jtaylor - I will give this a go tonight
<masetrax> Couldn't wait until after work - worked like a charm, thanks again
<Unit193> Great.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-09-23
<Unit193> barry: ...Should I poke you about bzr-fastimport?  Pretty sure this time you can say it's too late this cycle even. :P
<barry> Unit193: it's too late this cycle :)
<barry> Unit193: though, seriously, if it needs an upload it could probably be done.  i just don't like doing it ;)
<Unit193> barry: I've been poking you because you're somewhat bzr related and have at least an idea.  I've been running it in a cronjob for months, and had it installed for...A while so it has had a fair amount of testing!  (By one person.)
<barry> Unit193: tbh, i touch bzr *very* little these days.  i switched almost entirely to git a year or so ago.  bzr-fastimport is only interesting to me to allow me to convert my last few repos.  what exactly needs to happen with that package?  is there a new upstream?
<Unit193> barry: No, a patch to lose track of files less.  The gist of it is http://paste.openstack.org/show/RkQv6L04tlDMqKNVHg0A
<barry> Unit193: honestly, i'm no longer qualified to review that.  i don't remember much about the code.  sorry
<Unit193> barry: Hrm, so if you really don't want to upload, can you point me to another?
<barry> Unit193: my best suggestion is to put out a message on the bazaar mailing list.  i really don't know who's still active in that project these days.
<Unit193> Bah, OK thanks.  I guess I'll defer that to Blubbering Beluga.
<barry> Unit193: is that a future ubuntu release, right after zippy zebra and autonomous anteater?
<Unit193> barry: Yep! :P
#ubuntu-motu 2017-09-18
<cfs> hello, I have a proposed fix for LP #1716047
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1716047 in rustc (Ubuntu) "rustc control file contains unsupported restriction formulas in control file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1716047
<cfs> And I need a sponsor.  Documentation isn't really clear how to get anyone to do so.
<tsimonq2> cfs: Just subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors.
<cfs> to the LP?
<cfs> Okay.
<tsimonq2> Yeo
<tsimonq2> *Yep
<tsimonq2> It'll go in our queue
<cfs> :excellent:
<cfs> Done.
<tsimonq2> Unfortunately I'm running on little sleep so I have to go do that
<tsimonq2> But I'll take a look at the queue within the next week, maybe less
<cfs> It can keep, Sources for trusty-security has been broken seen 14 June, so it can last a few more days.
<tsimonq2> Otherwise someone else will get to it
<cfs> rather, since 15 June.
<cfs> :D
<cfs> np, thanks for the help.
<tsimonq2> yw, thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2017-09-21
<Unit193> willdeberry: Howdy.  How are things going then?
#ubuntu-motu 2017-09-24
<Unit193> Rhonda: https://loki.unit193.net/cgit/users/unit193/irssi.git/commit/?id=84c307eb5d0dc6159b2cf256f628995bed3cb02d might be of interest to you too.
<Rhonda> Unit193: That was intentionally done that way and discussed with upstream.
<Unit193> Oh?
<Rhonda> And it's doesn't get exposed.
<Unit193> [Freenode] CTCP VERSION reply from Ukikie: irssi v1.0.4-1+b2
<Rhonda> Upstream wants to know from users which patch level they have when they run into issues.
<Rhonda> Hmm, I thought the version was removed from ctcp_version_reply.
<Rhonda> But then, removing that from that variable by default might be the right approach.  Users should still be able to get iit with /version
<Unit193> OK, I can move over to one of the other options in pkg-info.mk
<Rhonda> â¦ I really thought I removed that from the default ctcp reply.  *scratcheshead*
<Rhonda> * Set PACKAGE_VERSION for configure as suggested by upstream.
<Rhonda> changelog of 0.8.21-1
<Unit193> Yeah, seen that.  So you'd prefer DEB_VERSION_UPSTREAM_REVISION then.  Pushed.
<Rhonda> Oh, are those predefined variables?  Didn't know about them, thanks. :)
<Rhonda> Ah, in that included make snippet, I see
<Unit193> Sure thing.  Pretty simple, but easier and lintian will complain. :P
<Rhonda> DEB_VERSION?
<Rhonda> Ah, DEB_VERSION_UPSTREAM_REVISION has epoch removed.
<Unit193> Yeah, that's not really useful in that context.  Hopefully Irssi never gets one though.
<Rhonda> lintian complains about using that snippet?  Why?
<Unit193> No, it complains about debian-rules-parses-dpkg-parsechangelog
<Rhonda> You mean mine gets complained about?
<Rhonda> Oh, wasn't aware of that â¦
<Rhonda> Is that new?
<Unit193> Fairly, added in 2.5.51
<Rhonda> https://lintian.debian.org/maintainer/rhonda@debian.org.html#irssi_1.0.4-1 doesn't display it and claims it uses 2.5.53
<Unit193> https://lintian.debian.org/full/rhonda@debian.org.html#irssi_1.0.4-1 informational only.
<Rhonda> Is it pedantic or experimental level?
<Unit193> 'P' is pedantic, 'X' experimental.
<Unit193> Severity: wishlist, Certainty: possible
<Rhonda> Ok, will change it with next upload if I don't forget, and remove $V from the ctcp_version_reply default
<Unit193> Did you decide if the other changes there were useful?
<Rhonda> I just looked at the commit you pointed me at. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2018-09-19
<handsome_feng> Hi, Could someone here help me to upload the new packages? They have been approved: LP: #1792261 LP: #1792265 LP: #1792267 LP: #1792269
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792261 in Ubuntu Kylin "[FFe] ukui-greeter" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792265 in Ubuntu Kylin "[FFe] ukui-biometric-auth" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792265
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792267 in Ubuntu Kylin " [FFe] ukui-biometric-manager" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792269 in Ubuntu Kylin " [FFe] biometric-authentication" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792269
#ubuntu-motu 2018-09-20
<handsome_feng>  Hi, Would someone please upload the new packages? They have been approved: LP: #1792261 LP: #1792265 LP: #1792267 LP: #1792269 Thanks in advance!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792261 in Ubuntu Kylin "[FFe] ukui-greeter" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792265 in Ubuntu Kylin "[FFe] ukui-biometric-auth" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792265
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792267 in Ubuntu Kylin " [FFe] ukui-biometric-manager" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792269 in Ubuntu Kylin " [FFe] biometric-authentication" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792269
#ubuntu-motu 2018-09-23
<handsome_feng> Hi, could someone help to upload my new packages when you have time, LP: #1792261 , LP: #1793365 LP: #1792267 LP: #1792269 , they have been approved long time ago, :( Thanks in advance!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792261 in Ubuntu Kylin "[FFe] ukui-greeter" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792261
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1793365 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792267 in Ubuntu Kylin " [FFe] ukui-biometric-manager" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792269 in Ubuntu Kylin " [FFe] biometric-authentication" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792269
<handsome_feng> Sorry, LP: #1792265
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792265 in Ubuntu Kylin "[FFe] ukui-biometric-auth" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792265
