#ubuntu-tv 2012-09-17
<smartboyhw> jhodapp: Asking for weekly update again LOL
<jhodapp> smartboyhw, might not get one this week
<smartboyhw> jhodapp: Oh why?
<jhodapp> smartboyhw, not for sure yet, so just stay tuned
<smartboyhw> Oh alright then:0
<jhodapp> thanks :)
<smartboyhw> :)
#ubuntu-tv 2012-09-18
<mnaines> Any idea if Ubuntu TV will be available to home users like myself and how much it will cost?
<mnaines> Hello, tbf
<tbf> mnaines, hi
<mnaines> tbf, I would like to know more about Ubuntu TV...Is it a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content service like what Cable providers offer?
<tbf> mnaines, so far i'd also have to speculate
<tbf> mnaines, you better ask jhodapp, willcooke, or Saviq
<mnaines> tbf, from what little I gathered on the website, it is being marketed as a bridge between TV manufacturers and content providers
<tbf> mnaines, yup.
<mnaines> It makes me wonder if it is something to do with the whole "TV through your computer" idea
<tbf> mnaines, in the end the plan seems to be to get ubuntu on setup boxes or even tvs
<tbf> apparently with a highly(?) customized version of unity
<mnaines> tbf, yes, although it would be easier just to provide end-users with a method of using their existing Ubuntu install to view TV content over the internet
<tbf> mnaines, as i understand jhodapp the plan is to provide all ubuntu tv components for the desktop version of ubuntu
<mnaines> tbf, those of us with shared TVs don't always get the premium channels on the shared TVs...Time Warner doesn't let my family have all the premium channels on every TV in the house
<tbf> mnaines, sounds like a nice job for something like rygel...
<mnaines> We would need a separate box for each TV to do that.  That is why I am curious as to what Ubuntu TV really is.
<tbf> mnaines: in the sense that rygel grabs your tv card's decrypted stream and distributes it via DLNA
<tbf> mnaines, guess the best way to figure out would be attending UDS, but the way you talk about time warner i fear copenhagen is a bit distant
<mnaines> tbf, I live in what is considered the heart of America
<tbf> mnaines: kansas!
<mnaines> To most Americans, "Copenhagen" is a brand of chewing tobacco
<tbf> mnaines, nah... don't talk about the viking's lovely capital like that :-D
<mnaines> tbf, ask any American if they know who the mayor of their town is and all you'll get are blank stares or the always-fascinating "Wha?" reaction
<mnaines> Nearly half of all Americans can't even pass America's citizenship exams
<tbf> wha... good that you elect the mayor directly in my town.
<tbf> leads to unexpected coalitions among parties if the mayor is well respected :-D
<mnaines> Oh, I bet city council meetings are as fun as MMA sessions...lol
<tbf> well. and interestingly also forces the mayor to remember well whom he serves
<tbf> oh... and actually the really seem to be heated sometimes :-)
<mnaines> tbf, on a more serious note, being able to watch full-content TV on my computer is something I've actually been wanting since I started working with computers
<mnaines> Especially now that my laptop comes equipped with a GPU that can run full 720p HD and not even break a sweat
<tbf> mnaines, i believe we'll get close to that next year
<tbf> mnaines, still might be useful to ask for that use case on the mailing list
<mnaines> AMD A8-3500M, a 1.5GHz quad-core CPU with an integrated Radeon HD 6620G.  Youtube, Avatar movie trailer, full 1080p HD...Only 18% utilization across all four cores
<tbf> helps to argue on what to spent resources (hint ;-))
<tbf> well, but at least in my (very personal) pov, ubuntu tv should just get full dlna support...
<mnaines> AND, it easily, and I do mean quite literally very easily, outperforms Intel
<tbf> ...so that you can share your media library, and (like you suggest) or pay tv streams
<mnaines> Intel's most powerful laptop CPU, the Core i7-2820QM
<mnaines> Side by side, these Llanos will flat-out destroy any of Intel's Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs in raw power
<tbf> entirely lost overview regarding CPUs and GPUs
<mnaines> For general-purpose computing, they all but hold their own against Intel's most powerful Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge laptop CPUs...For 3D graphics processing, its no contest.  The Llanos win every time
<tbf> compared to what i've started with, everything you can buy today is more than fast enough
<tbf> heavy monsters.
<mnaines> Four Phenom-class CPU cores, a full power-gated Radeon chipset and a very efficient DDR3 memory controller, all on one chip
<mnaines> Can completely power down the entire Radeon chipset and each individual CPU core as needed or can divert some of the Radeon cores' processing power to data processing, boosting runtime performance by as much as 30%
<tbf> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
<mnaines> Combine that with AMD's Turbo Core feature and the lowest power consumption of any CPU on the market (just shy of 40W at full load compared to 180W at full load for an Intel Core i7-2820QM)
<mnaines> tbf, Dirt 3, 4x Antialiasing, Medium quality graphics, the AMD A8-3500M held its own, clocking consistent framerates in the 30 to 35 frames per second range, while the Core i7-2820QM was completely unplayable
<tbf> mnaines: seriously, no idea. that rarely i find time for games, i just turn on my aging wii...
<tbf> ...just to realize that my reflexes aren't anymore what they used to be
<tbf> so for laptop and desktop gpus really everything i can buy today is fast enough
<mnaines> tbf, I have an AMD A8-3500M in my laptop, which currently runs Ubuntu Studio, and so far I haven't found anything on Ubuntu that can stress-test these Llano APUs
<tbf> more concerned about flawless operation, than about performance when it comes to gpus
<mnaines> And as far as reliability, this laptop runs 24/7 and doesn't complain...I could sit playing Crysis 2 all day long with zero crashes
<mnaines> I never worry about hardware-related crashes...Any crashes are generally due to my D-Link router saying "wtf" after I start gaming or some flaw within the game that causes the game to lock up if I play too long
<mnaines> If I'm just doing basic, general-purpose stuff like web browsing, email, IM, IRC, and the like, I have zero issues with reliability and can actually leave the laptop running 24/7 and it won't complain one bit
<mnaines> tbf, on a more serious note, do you have any idea who all is awake right now?
<mnaines> Hello, tsdgeos
<tsdgeos> hi
<mnaines> tsdgeos, do you know if Ubuntu TV is a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content broadcast service like the cable companies offer?
<tsdgeos> http://www.ubuntu.com/tv has all the official available information as far as i know
<mnaines> Which doesn't tell me much at all.
<mnaines> They are marketing it as a bridge between TV manufacturers and content providers, but it leaves me wondering if its just another set-top box or if its integrated into Ubuntu itself
<mnaines> Saviq, just the person I was looking for
<mnaines> What exactly is Ubuntu TV?  Is it a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content broadcast service like what the cable companies offer?
<Saviq> mnaines, first of all, it's considered rude to PM people without asking them first
<Saviq> mnaines, and no, Ubuntu TV isn't a streaming service, it's software for building a TV receiver / STB with capabilities to integrate streaming services
<mnaines> Is it going to be available to home users or just to content providers?
<Saviq> mnaines, everything that's possible will also be available in stock Ubuntu
<mnaines> Saviq, so I would be able to watch the same TV channels I get from my cable company on Ubuntu itself?
<Saviq> mnaines, that depends on oh so many factors
<mnaines> But it is possible at this point?
<Saviq> not with Ubuntu TV, no
<Saviq> but with Ubuntu and some additional software - yes, provided you can get conditional access working
<mnaines> "conditional access"?
<Saviq> mnaines, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_access
<mnaines> Looks to be DCAS-linked stuff...
<mnaines> Interesting...If I am understanding this whole thing right, Ubuntu TV is actually designed to be more like a DCAS system
<mnaines> Downloadable Content Access System
<mnaines> Basically devices that allow customers to legally view digital content without having to rent equipment from the cable companies, per an FCC mandate back in 2007
<mnaines> Downloadable Conditional Access System or DCAS is a proposal advanced by CableLabs for secure software download of a specific Conditional Access client (computer program) which controls digital rights management (DRM) into an OCAP-compliant host consumer media device.
<Saviq> mnaines, so DRM you can't expect to be integrated with Ubuntu on the desktop, that's probably just not gonna happen
<mnaines> If I am understanding the Ubuntu TV website correctly, the whole thing is set up in a similar way to how Apple set up its stuff, to seamlessly integrate and communicate with other devices, sharing content between the devices but still keeping the devices separate from each other
<Saviq> mnaines, yes, local network integration is at the core
<mnaines> So in order for Ubuntu TV to work, I would have to download it to a set-top box?
<Saviq> mnaines, for embedded devices you would probably have to get a preinstalled device
<Saviq> whether a TV with UbuntuTV in it or a STB
<mnaines> Those aren't cheap
<mnaines> And the way things are set up at my house, only one TV has a set-top box.  All the other TVs don't have boxes and so only get the basic channels
<Saviq> mnaines, a) there's no way you can download software on the STB
<Saviq> b) there's no saying what hardware is there - it's not as easy as it is in PCs
<mnaines> So there's no way for me to get full-content TV without a box?
<Saviq> there's nothing UbuntuTV can change in that market
<Saviq> people want to protect their content, hence they need total control over the device
<Saviq> if you only want non-protected content then things like "HDMI dongles" will probably be the cheapest way to get Ubuntu on them
<Saviq> you would still be able to use the Ubuntu TV interface
<Saviq> but wouldn't be able to use any protected content, be it streamed or over-the-air
<mnaines> All I know is when Time Warner set up the cable lines inside my house, they spliced everything so the TV in my room was hooked up to the cable TV connection that was shared with the same connection the STB is on
<mnaines> But since the TV itself is only capable of 64 channels, I have no real way of viewing any content on other channels outside that range
<mnaines> I think it was a year ago, maybe two years, when the FCC required media stations to broadcast all-digital signals, and when the analog signals were shut off, I still got signal, so I know there's some DRM going on someplace
<Saviq> for cable it's probably not DRM, but Conditional Access as I mentioned before
<Saviq> i.e. your STB has to descramble the signal
<Saviq> and to be able to do that in Ubuntu on your desktop, you'd need an off-the-shelf solution
<mnaines> Ah, so technically I could get full-content broadcast if I could find an UbuntuTV-capable receiver that can receive those channels?
<Saviq> in Europe it's usually a CI module (Common Interface) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Interface
<Saviq> but very few providers actually let them have you
<Saviq> their business is in keeping you tied to the crappy STB
<mnaines> Saviq, I know that strategy all too well...One STB for the DRM, another for the DVR, and don't even get me started on the wireless receivers that AT&T U-Verse has for TVs
<Saviq> yup
<mnaines> Would be nice to finally see a single box that can do all that by itself
<Saviq> it's the same here for the most part, there's a small amount of providers that let you get a SmartCard or a paired CAM + SmartCard
<Saviq> and put it in any CI-capable receiver
<Saviq> but then their problem is that after CI you can do just anything with the content
<Saviq> i.e. put it on the internet (like it's not already there...)
<mnaines> So Ubuntu TV on an STB would be all those features rolled into one box?
<Saviq> mnaines, it very much depends
<Saviq> mnaines, in your case, we'd have to get in bed with Time Warner to integrate hardware capable of receiving their content
<Saviq> and it's them that would distribute the boxes
<Saviq> but you'd get all the other features of UbuntuTV
<mnaines> So I'd be better off keeping my existing STB and getting a TV preloaded with UbuntuTV?
<Saviq> mnaines, sure, that would work, too
<mnaines> Now if only I could convince the rest of my family to switch to Ubuntu...I already got my brother to use Macs
<mnaines> Both of my brothers have been Apple fanboys for years now
<mnaines> I need a new TV anyway...The one I have now is years out of date...an old, dusty 14" CRT TV by Toshiba
#ubuntu-tv 2012-09-19
<jhodapp> test
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  Just a headds up but like always unity has changed again and your scpe no longer works at all
<tgm4883> what changed now?
<bobweaver> who knows lol
<bobweaver> maybe david
<bobweaver> but here is what is going on
<bobweaver> go to the lens and under search  enter in name that you know is in myth lib. brings back nothing. Go to the filter and mythmovies and mythshows are still there
<bobweaver> but When selecting them nothing shows up in the dash
<tgm4883> probably worth testing if we're getting valid data
<bobweaver> was working great untill 2 days ago. It could  be that I am using the stagging ppa and not stock
<tgm4883> bobweaver, which is easy to test with the way I built this
<bobweaver> restart the scope and then look for what the 456 is going on ?
<tgm4883> nope
<tgm4883> run mythtvapi.py
<tgm4883> it does a search for "house"
<tgm4883> so we might want to change house to something you know you have
<bobweaver> brought back everything that is in the lib
<tgm4883> ok
<bobweaver> well not everything but a lot
<tgm4883> so then it is returning data properly, and something did change and break it :/
<bobweaver> this is what I get when running ./usr/lib/unity-scope-mythtv/mythtvapi.py       http://paste.ubuntu.com/1215386/
<tgm4883> bobweaver, yep, that is what I would expect to see
<bobweaver> that is what I figured it is the lens
<bobweaver> more of that "unification "
<bobweaver> Get this also. Unity will not get back things anymore that are privoxyed
<bobweaver> or at least for me that is the case
<bobweaver> Like my the tvdb api that I wrote no longer works
<bobweaver> well brings back text but the privoxy says no images
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/228987
<bobweaver> IDK
<tgm4883> IDK, that looks like privoxy is blocking something
<bobweaver> that is what I am saying
<tgm4883> not that I have any experience with privoxy
<bobweaver> not good at all
<bobweaver> that is why my hulu lens is not working either
<bobweaver> dosent allow for anonumous connection's
<bobweaver> so I guess I will scrape
<bobweaver> or wait till UDS and figure out what the heck is going on here
<bobweaver> I like option 2
<bobweaver> :)
<bobweaver> Ok I think that I may have found the troubles. It is the lens 100% not only is it your scope that it can not read it is also the remote video scope. It is totem thumnailer that is messing some stuff up that I can see
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1215408/
<bobweaver> also net.whatever has been depreciated  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1215413/   << as you can see
<bobweaver> I am going to try and change the dbus path too org.launchpad.scope.mythtv
<bobweaver> and not net.launchpad.scope.mythtv
<bobweaver> Ok changed brb re-starting unity
<bobweaver> well that is also strange changed it to *org*  and am still getting back the same error
<bobweaver> also all other 3rd party lens are not working
<bobweaver> meaning no cooking no hulu  no well anything that is 3rd party
<bobweaver> talk about "unification "
<tgm4883> bobweaver, I'm sure it is something we can fix. It wouldn't make sense to lock out 3rd party lenses/scopes
<bobweaver> No it would not you are correct
<bobweaver> I am going to try to purge and reinstall or build from scratch (which the code changes ever 4 hours so there is no why to program anything new )
<bobweaver> because in 4 hours your work is garbage
<bobweaver> just like most things there is like 12 people that hold all the cards
<tgm4883> bobweaver, admittedly, you're running the staging PPA, which by definition is there in case things break
<tgm4883> it's possible breaking it was an accident and will be fixed
<bobweaver> correct
<bobweaver> It is just frustrating that is all. a good example would be I took like 20 hours and dedicated them to making sure that the Unity framework would match the old Ubuntu TV and the next day I go to push and the flippen Unity code is different so My code will not work
<bobweaver> like adding simplelauncher renderhorizanalcoverflow  ect
<bobweaver> and the next day there was no room for it as the code had changed so much that mine would not even work
<bobweaver> unification in its primal state I guess
<bobweaver> sorry
<bobweaver>  /rant
<bobweaver> but so it is needless to say that I wasted 20 hours of straight up programming in C++
#ubuntu-tv 2012-09-20
<jejejej> hoola
<bobweaver> ping mhall119
<bobweaver> When or if you get the chance I am looking for the uds blueprints ubuntutv can not seem to find it on launchpad, thanks
<tgm4883> bobweaver, they aren't available yet
<bobweaver> huh i got a email about them this morning maybe they where from last year ?
<tgm4883> bobweaver, possibly someone updating it from last year
<tgm4883> there should be a link in that email to it
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1217061/
<bobweaver> that is what I got
<tgm4883> yea that is last year
<bobweaver> ahh  and there is a link it was hiding
<tgm4883> s/year/uds
<bobweaver> cool tgm4883  I have tried so hard to be able to make a framework for Ubuntu TV and am trying again this time thou I am going to try to use the stagging-future ppa
<bobweaver> Might be a good idea to push the scope that way so the other lens dev's can see it and would know or might be able to notify for changes
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  ^^
<tgm4883> bobweaver, push it where?
<bobweaver> let me get link
<bobweaver> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/unity-team/staging-future/ubuntu quantal main
<bobweaver> I guess that that is the most bleeding edge that there is with unity (could be wrong) but I think that it goes  that ppa --> staging--> main
<tgm4883> bobweaver, I'm not sure the requirements to get it into that PPA
<bobweaver> once again I could be wrong on all that but it would not hurt at all to push the scope that way, or at least I figure
<tgm4883> nor do I think I'd get any notification of things breaking
<bobweaver> must be bleeding edge unity stuff I think that that is it but i could be wrong
<tgm4883> there is probably some mailing list I should subscribe to
<bobweaver> I will try to find out more about that ppa and there policy
<bobweaver> I was just not sure if you had seen that or not
<mhall119> bobweaver: yeah, I'm updating all my blueprints from last UDS
<bobweaver> cool thanks mhall119
<bobweaver> do you know if there is going to be new one ?
<mhall119> bobweaver: I assume so
<mhall119> we haven't started adding new BPs yet
<bobweaver> thanks
<tgm4883> we'll announce it in the weekly update
<tgm4883> it - uds-r tv blueprints
<bobweaver> v.cool
<bobweaver> yeah I try to keep up with the ajust you set stuff, but can not tell what is new and what is not new
<bobweaver> so I just read the whole site each time :/
#ubuntu-tv 2012-09-21
<thebishop> hey hey
<tgm4883> thebishop, hi
#ubuntu-tv 2012-09-23
<moez> hi, i'm using ubuntu quantal and i want to test the lastest build of ubuntu-tv, but, i think i didn't found the right code source as i know that unity/tv will no longer be based on unity-2d. so, where can i find it? or does unity-tv still based on unity-2d and there is no any work in progress in this side?
#ubuntu-tv 2017-09-21
<lbertolotti> hi
<lbertolotti> hi
<lbertolotti> Can I boot Ubuntu-Tv on LG TV?
