#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-02
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Mako Hill: Wiki Conferencing <http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20120601-00>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Ohio - Burning Circle: Burning Circle Episode 76 <http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/104>
<jussi> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning jussi
<jussi> heya AlanBell. any thoughts on when an ubuntu tablet might hit the market?
<AlanBell> well I think not any time soon
<AlanBell> they need an OEM that wants to play along and I dunno if they have one yet
<jussi> ahh yes
<popey> depends how you define "an ubuntu tablet"
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/ubuntu-12-04-firmware-released-for-smartq-t20-tablet
<popey> i have one of those on order :)
<jussi> nice
<jussi> thats actually very interesting
<jussi> popey: do you have any sharable information about effort going into making ubuntu more tablet/touch friendly?
<popey> i dont think there's anything to share at the moment
<jussi> popey: ok, fair enough, thanks anyway.
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Justin Dugger: Open Source Bridge Wrapup <http://pwnguin.net/open-source-bridge-wrapup.html>
<AlanBell> interesting, I didn't realise that t20 thing was a manufacturer provided firmware
<AlanBell> I guess it is stock ubuntu, not a Canonical tweaked version for tablets
<popey> looks that way
<popey> but it looks like they use a linaro kernel
<popey> which is interesting
<popey> "Stockholm utr,Sverige, The item has been dispatched from PostenÂ´s international terminal for onward transport abroad."
<popey> mine's on its way
<jussi> popey: awesome :D
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Lubuntu Blog: Quantal UI Improvements <http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2012/07/quantal-ui-improvements.html>
<bleytrin> hi, i want to backup via dd a few workstations simultaneously. I was thinking dd via ssh. Any other scenarios?
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: RaphaÃ«l Hertzog: My Debian Activities in June 2012 <http://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/07/02/my-debian-activities-in-june-2012/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: [Quantal] linux kernel 3.5.0-3.3 uploaded (ABI Bump) <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/02/quantal-linux-kernel-3-5-0-3-3-uploaded-abi-bump/> || The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 272 <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/07/02/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-272/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-272>
<AlanBell> ooh look this channel gets a mention in the Ubuntu Weekly News
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue272
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Michael Rooney: Freelancing: A 6-Month Retrospective <http://mrooney.github.com/blog/2012/07/01/freelancing-a-6-month-retrospective/>
<MrChrisDruif> Rightly so AlanBell
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tony Whitmore: But which one is the straight man? <http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/02/but-which-one-is-the-straight-man/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=but-which-one-is-the-straight-man>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-03
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Nicholas Skaggs: Call for Testing: 12.10 kernel on 12.04 -- Part Deux <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/07/call-for-testing-1210-kernel-on-1204.html> || Nicholas Skaggs: Call for Testing: 12.10 kernel on 12.04 <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/06/call-for-testing-1210-kernel-on-1204.html>
<hobgoblin> morning popey
<popey> good morning
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Daniel Silverstone: Gitano public hostingâ¦ <http://blog.digital-scurf.org/2012/07/03#gitano-hosting-environment>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Meet Vincent Ladeuil who works in the Blue Squad on Launchpad <http://blog.launchpad.net/meet-the-devs/meet-vincent-ladeuil-who-works-in-the-blue-squad-on-launchpad>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Martin Pitt: PyGObject hackfest at GUADEC <http://www.piware.de/2012/07/pygobject-hackfest-at-guadec/> || Ryan Kavanagh: Fixing mutt header cache <http://ryanak.ca/planet-ubuntu/2012/07/03/Fixing-mutt-header-cache.html>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: Kernel Team Meeting Minutes â July 03, 2012 <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/03/kernel-team-meeting-minutes-july-03-2012/> || Daniel Holbach: Making better apps possible <http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2012/07/making-better-apps-possible/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=making-better-apps-possible>
<jussi> Did anyone watch the thing with Mark today? How was it ?
<IdleOne> what thing with Mark?
<IdleOne> I guess me answer is no I didn't
<AlanBell> there is a replay of it, I didn't read all of it
<jussi> AlanBell: got a link?
<AlanBell> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/28/mark_shuttleworth_live_chat/
<IdleOne> Thank you
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Soren Hansen: If youâre trying to do asymmetric routing in Ubuntu 12.04.. <http://blog.linux2go.dk/2012/07/03/if-youre-trying-to-do-asymmetric-routing-in-ubuntu-12-04/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-04
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Carter: Facebook ads for MOTU? <http://jonathancarter.org/2012/07/04/facebook-ads-for-motu/>
<bkerensa> hmm
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Didier Roche: Added rhythmbox radio support to unity music lens <http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Added-rhythmbox-radio-support-the-unity-music-lens>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Riddell: Akademy Week Continues <http://blogs.kde.org/node/4585>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ronnie Tucker: Fullcircle Podcast Episode 29 â The Great Train Poddery <http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2012/07/04/fullcircle-podcast-episode-29-the-great-train-poddery/>
<harris> does anyone have a tablet with ubuntu on it
<ikonia> not a lot of options
<ikonia> certainly nothing native
<bluegoon> Hello
<bluegoon> Which IRC client would be best for ubuntu?
<IdleOne> bluegoon: not really the sort of question this channel was meant for, but there are several.
<IdleOne> !irc
<ubot5> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines
<IdleOne> !clients
<IdleOne> hmm
<IdleOne> Xchat, quassel, are two popular GUI clients
<IdleOne> there is also irssi for a CLI client and a few others
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo: S05E10 â The Tale of the Pie and the Patty Pan <http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/07/04/s05e10-the-tale-of-the-pie-and-the-patty-pan/>
<rymate1234> hai
<IdleOne> hello
<IdleOne> I'm sure Galvatron will be along soon
<Galvatron> I am
<rymate1234> lol
<IdleOne> oh, hehe
<IdleOne> Didn't see you there hiding in the corner
<Galvatron> I wonder why Canonical is trying to stick to GNOME 3 and Compiz at any cost, while the current KDE is very mature, stable and has almost everything to run Unity.
<Galvatron> They would just need to make the Dash into a Plasmoid
<Galvatron> Andmaybe add a plasmoid for the window buttons on the panel
<Galvatron> There's even a plasmoid for the launcher (it might need a little work, though)
<ikonia> because they are backing ubuntu as a gnome distro
<Galvatron> Kubuntu is now supported by Blue Systems
<rymate1234> they could at least recode unity to use mutter
<Galvatron> Mutter is an utter mule, compared to Compiz
<rymate1234> isn't compis supposed to be dead?
<rymate1234> -s +z
<Galvatron> Compiz is up and fine, especially the stable 0.8.x branch
<Galvatron> It's the development 0.9.x that causes all the trouble
<Galvatron> And Canonical pushing it int a "stable" version of a distro
<rymate1234> meh
<Galvatron> I've had problems with 0.9.x ever since it was introduced, back in 11.04
<Galvatron> Back then I just swutched back to 0.8.6, but now it's not easy
<AlanBell> I have heard people saying that compiz 0.8 series is more stable, however I am finding the version in Ubuntu pretty solid now
<AlanBell> the unity plugin was pretty buggy and kept bringing down the whole stack a couple of cycles ago but now it reloads perfectly happily
<AlanBell> that was the problem with CCSM, any time you turn on or off a plugin they all get reloaded, and it is bad if there is a crashy one, but now it works fine
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-05
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Stuart Langridge: Together in electric fags <http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/07/05/together-in-electric-fags>
<jussi> electric fags :D Oh stuart, I love you :P
<Tm_T> well that's a subject to discuss here (;
<AlanBell> they are USB powered
<AlanBell> wonder if they draw 100ma or negotiate for 500ma
<AlanBell> dunno if they would need a kernel driver for that
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: James Henstridge: u1ftp: a demonstration of the Ubuntu One API <http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh/2012/07/05/u1ftp/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Luca Ferretti: GNOME 3.5.3 development release <http://blogs.gnome.org/lferrett/2012/07/05/gnome-3-5-3-development-release/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Meet Martin Packman in the Blue squad <http://blog.launchpad.net/meet-the-devs/meet-martin-packman-in-the-blue-squad>
<m4v> AlanBell: The amount of current is determined by the type of load you connect. Lower imperance loads demand higher current. If they demand more than what the usb port can supply, the voltage drops and a short circuit follows if there's no build-in protection .
<AlanBell> m4v: there is a negotiation protocol
<m4v> there is? sounds silly to negotiate current for a constant voltage supply.
<AlanBell> everything is allowed to draw 100ma at first which is one unit of load
<AlanBell> they can ask the bus if they can have up to 5 units
<AlanBell> this is so the voltage does not drop
<AlanBell> it can just take 500ma, but that is outside the spec if it doesn't ask nicely for it
<AlanBell> which is why some low quality netbooks crash when you plug in a 3G dongle
<m4v> I see, there's a current limiter or protection circuit then.
<AlanBell> I don't know how/if it is enforced
<AlanBell> but to be within the spec a device has to ask nicely before taking lots of power
<AlanBell> this means a completely dumb device can have 100ma and be a compliant USB device, but it has to have a tiny bit of cleverness to have a power negotiation conversation, but I am not sure if that means that aquarius's fags need a kernel driver
<AlanBell> I would think that they would at least show up in lsusb if they are doing a power negotiation
<m4v> might be at hardware level
<m4v> is probably the current protection that is set to kick in at 100ma, and you negotiate for a higher limit.
<m4v> but then... it shouldn't crash anything, the device would fail to work.
<AlanBell> apparently they don't show up in lsusb
<AlanBell> I have a hacked apart USB extension cable and a multimeter for checking current draw of USB devices, used it to prove that the netbook was crap, and the dongles were out of spec
<m4v> power negotiation sounds like something that should be done at hardware level, but I'm just guessing.
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-06
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: John Baer: UN5 GTK 3.4 Theme for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Released <http://www.projblog.com/un5-12-04/> || Jono Bacon: Community Leadership Summit 2012: A Week Away! <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/06/community-leadership-summit-2012-a-week-away/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jason Gerard DeRose: PyGI + GStreamer 1.0, BFF <http://jderose.blogspot.com/2012/07/pygi-gstreamer-10-bff.html>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: Thinkpad t520i Palmrest <http://blog.pault.ag/post/26594154131>
<ikonia> Pici: discuss
<ikonia> it was a good topic
<ikonia> Pici: thoughts, I want to run $GAME - what's your suggestion ?
<Pici> ikonia and I were discussing wether WINE was a feasable solution for running windows programs
<ikonia> ahh, mine point was "depending on wine as a long term solution" rather than just running
<Pici> I personally think that WINE can be stable enough to fit many user's needs.
<ikonia> Pici: I think it can too for certain software,
<Pici> or rather, the programs running under wine can be stable.
<ikonia> I don't see it for things like games which have regular patches and demands on the resources directly
<AlanBell> there has been a heap of work on wine for games
<ikonia> AlanBell: yes, but in ubuntu world, that doesn't matter as the wine package isn't updated
<AlanBell> which is kind of good as games are quite demanding and the upshot is that wine is really good for regular applications now
<ikonia> AlanBell: and to be honest, the wine guys wil struggle to keep up with each software package and it's updates
<ikonia> AlanBell: define regular applications ?#
<AlanBell> windows applications that are just forms and windows
<Pici> non-games, basic office apps
<ikonia> ok, so say "word" for arguments sake
<AlanBell> yeah, stuff like that
<ikonia> yes, I can see some value in things like word, or basic form driven software in wine
<Pici> I didn't specifically mean MS Office
<AlanBell> I was thinking Lotus Notes which I used to run under wine
<ikonia> Pici: no, I take the point
<Pici> k
<ikonia> AlanBell: same sort of example, sure, I'm with you on that
<AlanBell> I don't use it any more, but wine development picked up fast when games got viable
<ikonia> software with big demands and regular patches that change the core code base, photoshop, games, I don't see it
<ikonia> AlanBell: I still don't see it as viable
<ikonia> but I suspect that is the definition of viable
<Pici> I don't use Wine either. I have a seprate Windows computer for my Windows stuff.
<AlanBell> oh sure
<AlanBell> wine got more developers when it started to look like it might be plausible that a game might kinda start under wine
<ikonia> as joe blogs I want to open up software, and use it %99 as good as if it was native and depend that it will not break randomly tomorrow
<ikonia> I don't see wine delivering on that option
<ikonia> I see wine on ubuntu as even less due to the version restrictions
<AlanBell> I wasn't aware of regressions happening on wine, I thought things tend to move in a forward direction
<ikonia> AlanBell: I don't think it's regessions
<ikonia> more the software it's running changes and it's broke
<AlanBell> ah, I see
<ikonia> eg: a patch happens, a version update, and wine just then fails
<ikonia> (not all situations of coursE)
<Pici> A program patch, not a Wine patch
<ikonia> but that's why I was saying something that works today with a smile, may totally fail tomorrow
<ikonia> sure, a program patch
<ikonia> the more basic the software, the less the patch seems to effect it
<ikonia> and that's why I'm saying I don't believe the wine guys could ever keep up
<ikonia> so much software, so many updates to that software, wow, it would be mamoth
<ikonia> that doesn't mean I think wine is bad though
<ikonia> quick fire up to get something, or try something, or convert it, sure
<ikonia> but it's the depending on wine bit I have an issue with
<Pici> Do they actually put fixes in for speicific programs?
<ikonia> Pici: I've seen reference to patches to fix a bug with a specific program
<ikonia> I don't know if that's actually that program, or the problem that program creates
<Pici> ikonia: I think we agree that if they were putting in that many speicific fixes then their codebase would explode.
<ikonia> the work load would be amazing
<ikonia> Pici: it would be a 1TB download with mb updates/deltas every day
<ikonia> I think people trying to run games makes the issue look worse than it is as they are a hot moving target
<Pici> Yeah
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Matthew Revell: Technical Writer wanted at Canonical <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MatthewRevell/~3/9Ap2E03_dWY/> || Launchpad News: Are you a technical writer -Want to work with amazing people and great team- Come join us <http://blog.launchpad.net/were-hiring/are-you-a-technical-writer-want-to-work-with-amazing-people-and-great-team-come-join-us> || Launchpad News: Weâre hiring software engineers to work on cloud pro
<ikonia> boot the root issues (for me) of being able to depend on it as a solution at a wine level, and then at a wine level that your distro is running/maintaining is just not viable
<ikonia> quick tasks, eg: just open up word to save it as a different format, or check your email on lotus notes, sure sure,
<ikonia> but running your business, class work, gaming life around it, it's just not going to fly
<ikonia> and I don't see how the wine guys can be responsible for that or even have a chance at it
<Pici> I agree, running your business through wine is probably not the best solution
<ikonia> Pici: I come to you for Pici IT support, I give you your consulting fee, and say "I'm doing music production at college, I need to run Pro-tools, should I use my linux box?" what is your opinion ?
<ikonia> (I admit I'm picking a very complex bit of software, but I couldn't think of a non-business bit of software, so call it generic music software)
<Pici> ikonia: I wouldn't want to be responsible for trying to get it to work under Linux.
<ikonia> Pici: ok, but I'm depending on it for college......
<ikonia> do you recommend wine or a native solution ?
<Pici> ikonia: Natiev.
<Pici> Native too
<ikonia> that's the point I'm going for
<ikonia> depending on it for a solution for anything, fun, work, study, is just not viable
<Pici> Sometimes I forget that not everyone is willing to fight with their software to get it to work.
<ikonia> as a "tool" I think it's great, as a solution, I don't find it acceptable
<ikonia> Pici: you're not alone
<ikonia> Pici: better idea of where I'm trying to come from ?
<Pici> ikonia: much better, thanks :)
<ikonia> it's a good discussion,
<Pici> aye
<ikonia> this is the sort of thing I wish you could discuss in #ubuntu-offtopic
<ikonia> (I know you technically can, just wouldn't get input/discussion like this)
<ikonia> maybe I'll move -discuss a little lower down my irssi window list
<AlanBell> heh
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: Ubuntu app showdown deadline approaching: get your submissions ready! <http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/07/ubuntu-app-showdown-deadline-approaching-get-your-submissions-ready/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Cloud Portal: EC2 S3 Mirrors globally available <http://utlemming.azurewebsites.net/?p=451>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Kerensa: Will Thunderbird Get Forked Proper? <http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/07/06/will-thunderbird-get-forked-proper> || Jorge Castro: I am digging the S3 mirrors... <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/06/i-am-digging-the-s3-mirrors-dot-dot-dot/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-07
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tiago Hillebrandt: Ubuntu-BR-SC LoCo Team Blog Launches New Visual Identity <http://tiagohillebrandt.eti.br/blog/ubuntu-br-sc-loco-team-blog-launches-new-visual-identity.html> || Jorge Castro: There is no need to worry about Thunderbird <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/06/there-is-no-need-to-worry-about-thunderbird/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Robert Collins: Reprap driver pinouts <http://www.advogato.org/person/robertc/diary.html?start=163>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Thomas Bechtold: Welcome to planet.ubuntu.com <http://toabctl.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/welcome-to-planet-ubuntu-com/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-08
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Thomas Bechtold: pictag released <http://toabctl.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/pictag-released/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Bryan Quigley: 12.04 Music Player Review Init <http://bryanquigley.com/reviews/12-04-music-player-review-init>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Stuart Langridge: Speakers all over the house <http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/07/08/speakers-all-over-the-house>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Scott James Remnant: Revision Control and Unit Tests Considered Harmful <http://netsplit.com/2012/07/08/revision-control-and-unit-tests-considered-harmful/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-07-02
<[conrad]> Hello everyone. We're looking to migrate away from LTSP to full desktops, and it seems I may not know the proper term to search for, but the initial issue I'm running into is looking for a way to keep the machines on the network "centrally and remotely managed". Meaning, I can choose when to do updates, and I won't need to run around to all the machines to do this. Also, the ability to install the same package to all the machines
<[conrad]>  at once. Landscape looks what I may want, but for $100+/machine it's not cost effective. Plus there are a lot of features Landscape provides that we wouldn't need. I've seen results that indicate puppet, foreman, and spacewalk is the alternative, but it seems those are more for managing servers, not desktops. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ObrienDave> Appropriate time-of-day greetings ;p
<lordievader> o/
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj_
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-30
<tintedwindows> help
<OerHeks> LoLz how can we help to discuss?
 * daftykins thinks someone found the wrong door
<OerHeks> discussing is not that easy
<OerHeks> all the mistakes i have done twice
<daftykins> :D
<tintedwindows> no i accidently forgot the /
<tintedwindows> i wanted to figure out the commands to sign in
<tintedwindows> ant-man
<lordievader> Good morning.
<TJ-> Morning ... feels like afternoon to me!
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<OerHeks> Hi lotus :-)
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hello mate,
<lotuspsychje> 30+ degrees here
<OerHeks> Just a nice 26'C here, friday 37.. but not on the coast where i am living.
<OerHeks> long long row of cars toward the beach
<OerHeks> and those silly tourists follow the signs, not the maps to find the fastest road :-D
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: on wich coast do you live?
<OerHeks> after 19:00 the row switches to return-home
<OerHeks> Haarlem, 3 km from zandvoort
<lotuspsychje> we just cam back from sluis here
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<OerHeks> tomorrow it get worse, Drabber feels the sun on the pavement, so i have to choose carefully my path in the shadows
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hello mate
<OerHeks> hi lordievader :-)
<lotuspsychje> 34+ is too much for us
<lordievader> Hey OerHeks
<lordievader> How are the two of you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great and sunny
<OerHeks> great, 3 dutchies talking english in a channel :-D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> The way it should be :P
<OerHeks> It is true, my english gets better every week.
<lordievader> :)
<lotuspsychje> supporting ubuntu is good for everything :p
<lordievader> Does anyone of you have experience with festival and hts voices?
<lotuspsychje> whats hts?
<OerHeks> A little, tried it a few years back.
<lordievader> I got pocketsphinx working but now I want my pc to talk back to me.
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: An speech engine.
<lotuspsychje> like dragon naturaly speaking?
<lordievader> Err, I guess.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: there is an ubuntu distro specialized for blind users, maybe some usefull packages on there?
<lordievader> Problem is Ubuntu is usually behind with their packages.
<lotuspsychje> there has been an article about that
<lordievader> This is the error I'm getting: Error: HTS_Model_load_pdf: Failed to load header of pdfs.
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/will-i-have-the-latest-software-versions-in-ubuntu-with-snappy-485490.shtml
<lordievader> Ah: "References to this error on the hts-users list suggest it's because the HTS API changed and that, where the old festival accepted 2.1 voices, the new version only accepts 2.1.1 voices."
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Snappy is still futurework, right?
<lotuspsychje> yeah, but the plan is to replace apt-get
<lotuspsychje> no more .debs oO
<lotuspsychje> !info festival
<ubot5> festival (source: festival): General multi-lingual speech synthesis system. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.1~release-8 (vivid), package size 800 kB, installed size 2623 kB
<lordievader> I have 2.1 and 2.4.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: there's a bug about it here for debian: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=589614
<ubot5> Debian bug 589614 in festival "Breaks nitech arctic hts 2.1 voices." [Wishlist,Fixed]
<lordievader> Yeah, see the comment above ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol, is that normal the bot shows debian bugs also?
<lordievader> It can also show kde bugs ;)
<lotuspsychje> can this help lordievader http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=751169&page=12
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: I found flite, which is quite okay.
<lordievader> But thanks anyways.
<lotuspsychje> ok :p
<Johnny_Linux> hehe
<Johnny_Linux> woohoo
<lotuspsychje> hi mate
<Johnny_Linux> whats shakin
<lotuspsychje> oh its hot outside here
<lotuspsychje> 30+ degrees
<lotuspsychje> and the whole week will be summer temps
<Johnny_Linux> same here, working on the house, remodeling, so, im in&out
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: peeking on irc while your working eh...
<lotuspsychje> thats the best! :p
<Johnny_Linux> my wife is in the bathroom
<lotuspsychje> ok put your cam on :p
<Johnny_Linux> woohoo
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Johnny_Linux> ok, im being paged, bbl
<lotuspsychje> cheers
<lordievader> Whee, I can ask the program for the time and it will speak it :D
<lordievader> Pretty nifty :)
<OerHeks> you've got meel!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> I could do that XD
<lordievader> It also control the music :D
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: where do you live in the world?
<Johnny_Linux> fla usa
<Johnny_Linux> old fart town
<lotuspsychje> bruges, belgium here
<Johnny_Linux> i seen that .be
<Johnny_Linux> how is it there
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> good chocolats, belgian beer, wafles and lace :p
<Johnny_Linux> mmm beeer
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Johnny_Linux> D`oh!
<lotuspsychje> -nut
<Johnny_Linux> lol youve got meeel
<Johnny_Linux> i tried gspeak myself
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: is it any good?
<lotuspsychje> !info gspeak
<ubot5> Package gspeak does not exist in vivid
<Johnny_Linux> i had to install hukt un fonix for keybords
<lotuspsychje> !info hukt
<ubot5> Package hukt does not exist in vivid
<Johnny_Linux> no, it sukd
<Johnny_Linux> sucks
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: wich distro are you on?
<Johnny_Linux> there are other ways, i just havent time now, i run a electronics repair biz home and am swamped
<Johnny_Linux> 12.04
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> 14.04 64bit here
<Johnny_Linux> tv/dvd/ham and police radio
<Johnny_Linux> i have it on usb for install
<Johnny_Linux> im a power user also
<Johnny_Linux> asus overclocker
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: cool hardware tips will come in handy for me later
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: im preparing to start an ubuntu shop in my country
<Johnny_Linux> asus all the way, long and strong boards, gigabyte is a runner up but have weak north bridges
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: laptops,desktops,tablets and phones all with ubuntu + ssd
<Johnny_Linux> very nice
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: you think the masses will be ready for it?
<Johnny_Linux> i have mentally ill people using ubuntu, i made everything a mouse click, they love it
<Johnny_Linux> some times i use debian
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: same story here, my 75 y old father cant break his trusty box
<lotuspsychje> before, i had to come every week to fix windows
<Johnny_Linux> excellent
<lotuspsychje> and with ssd its bloody fast
<Johnny_Linux> windoze really does suck
<lotuspsychje> thats what ppl want right
<Johnny_Linux> rly
<Johnny_Linux> i think the ubunto phone will go over big when they get it together, a phone/pc is really ideal
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: you mean that convergence phone?
<Johnny_Linux> yeah
<lotuspsychje> you always wear a pc :p
<Johnny_Linux> lol yep
<lotuspsychje> well for security ubuntu touch is already very nice
<lotuspsychje> im using it on my nexus7
<Johnny_Linux> apple and windoze have $ signs attatched to every mouse click
<Johnny_Linux> nice
<lotuspsychje> yeah its a paying world isnt it
<lotuspsychje> thats where i wanna make the difference
<Johnny_Linux> invisible economy
<Johnny_Linux> same here
<lotuspsychje> sell cheaper boxes without Os and install ubuntu free on it
<Johnny_Linux> exactly
<Johnny_Linux> i do it part time
<lotuspsychje> +longer lifetime use with ssd
<lotuspsychje> me too
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: how many boxes would you have installed trusty on yet?
<Johnny_Linux> i stay away from wd, they should be sued
<Johnny_Linux> maybe 5
<lotuspsychje> yeah western digital many data loss
<Johnny_Linux> same here, bought 7 in a row, all went bad in 6 months, and they dont stand behind them
<Johnny_Linux> new egg
<grout> dang
<Johnny_Linux> i quit those folks too
<Johnny_Linux> i got the best service from amazon so far
<lotuspsychje> i had those WD books
<lotuspsychje> all bad also
<Johnny_Linux> yeah , seems they are doing it on purpose for some reason
<lotuspsychje> comercial trick lol
<Johnny_Linux> i bought a couple seagates and they are work horses
<lotuspsychje> release bad hardware
<lotuspsychje> true
<Johnny_Linux> yeah
<lotuspsychje> im addicted to samsung ssd's now
<Johnny_Linux> samsung makes good stuff, back when i was doing vhs repair, samsung and jvc were the best
<Johnny_Linux> i just bought a samsung 40 inch tv
<lotuspsychje> got one also
<Johnny_Linux> my buddy has a thumb drive, made by G, and it gets every tv channel on the planet, free, soon as i get it up and running, ill fill you in on it
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxE2X13KBcA
<Johnny_Linux> im not sure on how much bandwidth it uses, so, ill be interested to see
 * Johnny_Linux looks
<lotuspsychje> talked to a server guys once, he told me he hammered samsung ssd pro 24/7 and never had 1 failure yet
<Johnny_Linux> nice
<Johnny_Linux> how many writes does it get
<lotuspsychje> 550mb/sec read/write i think
<Johnny_Linux> dog gone
<grout> yea they are crazy fast
<Johnny_Linux> good ram
<grout> i have one in my laptop
<grout> ubuntu boots in seconds
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> grout: wich model, evo or pro
<grout> its a pro
<grout> 256 gig
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-512GB-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-7KE512BW/dp/B00LF10KTO/ref=lp_10432889011_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1435686205&sr=1-1
<grout> can remember the exact model number
<lotuspsychje> grout: nice mate, you should make a youtube :p
<lotuspsychje> grout: wich ubuntu on it?
<grout> 15.04 on that one
<lotuspsychje> cool
<Johnny_Linux> thats not bad price for 500g
<lotuspsychje> i prefer 120 or 256 cheaper, and fast as rocket also
<Johnny_Linux> i could go for a 250
<lotuspsychje> and combine a second seagate 2tb for data storage
<grout> yea i put a 256 gig ssd and a 500 gig 7200 rpm drive in mt laptop
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: we really reccomend with ubuntu :p
<lotuspsychje> grout: nice
<lotuspsychje> grout: did you install preload
<Johnny_Linux> i use many os's, but my main is ubuntu and debian
<Johnny_Linux> sabayon
<grout> this laptop was a preload
<lotuspsychje> ive tested sabayon in the past
<Johnny_Linux> its broke most of the time
<grout> but i run ubuntu 14.04 on all my servers
<lotuspsychje> !info preload | grout
<ubot5> grout: preload (source: preload): adaptive readahead daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.4-2 (vivid), package size 34 kB, installed size 135 kB
<lotuspsychje> fastn up things on ssd also :p
<grout> ah
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: yeah, ubuntu is very nice for updating an running stable n such
<Johnny_Linux> agreed
<lotuspsychje> so perfect for my store :p
<Johnny_Linux> exactly
<lotuspsychje> but i only have one prob, gaming isnt very high end on linux
<Johnny_Linux> gonna check out kernel 4.2 when it is done
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: yea readed that article of linus
<Johnny_Linux> http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-256GB-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-7KE256BW/dp/B00LMXBOP4/ref=sr_1_18/187-0631412-1842243?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1435686372&sr=1-18&keywords=Internal+SSD
<Johnny_Linux> cheap enough
<Johnny_Linux> 137
<Johnny_Linux> my first hd was a ps2 60 meg, it sounded like the space shuttle
<Johnny_Linux> ok, back to work, ill be back later, be good
<lotuspsychje> nice!
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/linux-kernel-4-2-may-end-up-being-the-biggest-release-says-linus-torvalds-485451.shtml
<lotuspsychje> when you get back
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: good evening mate
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje, what's up ?
<lotuspsychje> all fine here, high temps in our country
<lotuspsychje> 30+
<BluesKaj> ok, 27 and high humidity here
<BluesKaj>  the A/C is set at dehumidify, uses less power but stull makes it feel cooler
<lotuspsychje> cool :p
<BluesKaj> err still
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: good evening mate
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: greetings sir
<Bashing-om> \o lotuspsychje ; Shift change ?
<lotuspsychje> sure mate
<lotuspsychje> im about to watch movie
<JanC> <BluesKaj>  the A/C is set at dehumidify, uses less power but stull makes it feel cooler
<JanC> also makes you dehydrate faster...
 * lotuspsychje slides a beer to JanC 
<Bashing-om> I just comming on, Hoz it been ? Later I got chores I need to attend to .
<lotuspsychje> fine fine but ttyl
<lotuspsychje> you take it over from here :p
<Bashing-om> Big pair of shoes to put on there .
<Hobbet1> 1
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-01
<tintedwindows> damn
<tintedwindows> wopper
<tintedwindows> $string  = "eat a wopper" {}
<tintedwindows> print = "$string" ;
<tintedwindows> ()
<daftykins> mmk
<OerHeks> What is a wopper and where do they live?
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning  all
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> how do?
<lotuspsychje> hi daftykins
<lotuspsychje> fine here, hot weather
<lotuspsychje> 34+
<daftykins> indeed! i was dying earlier today
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> Yeah... warm here too; got the A/C on for the 1st time to keep the equipment cool (and me, too!)
<lotuspsychje> saturday 40 degrees here
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> and today was the warmest day of our country since 1901
<Bashing-om> cool here !
<lotuspsychje_> Bashing-om: your grabbing a beer in your fridge? :p
<Bashing-om> Naw .. is Tea and coke for me .
<Bashing-om> ( I just switch caffine sources )
 * lotuspsychje hates hexchat lags
<daftykins> i'm trying to deal with a very frustrating fridge right now
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8ewxsl3e2t1na6m/AABRwvabCWsS_03wGG2h81R-a?dl=0
<daftykins> drain hose seems totally clogged up such that if i use it, i just get the floor fill with what's meant to drain down the back
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Well, at least that is a different kind of problem. Drain pan filling up faster than the water evaporates ?
<daftykins> Bashing-om: nah, i've syringed some water into the top there but it just pools and flows inside the fridge. no single drop makes it down the hose
<daftykins> best advice i've had so far is to try poking wire down there, like a coat hanger
<daftykins> not sure i even have anything appropriate
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: maybe boiling water will fix it
<daftykins> i did inject a bit of washing up liquid and warm water in
<daftykins> pretty much nothing will actually go inside :S
<daftykins> anywho, need to find a pokey stick :D
<Bashing-om> I like the idea of running a weed eater line throgh it .
<lotuspsychje> how about vinegar
<lotuspsychje> that might eat the bottleneck
<lotuspsychje> then blow it with a straw :p
<daftykins> hmm that's a good idea too
<daftykins> i found a little 10cm long flimsy piece of wire wrapped in plastic, must be a binsack tie i think
<daftykins> poked it in the hole... wiggled it a bit and suddenly i heard water at the bottom :D
<daftykins> just been syringing a few more loads of soapy water into it, all of which is making it down
<Bashing-om> !yah
<daftykins> you know what i think this calls for? some cat6 network cable poked down
<Bashing-om> Har har .. cat6 will fix anything ? Kinda close kin to duct tape ?
<daftykins> :D
 * lotuspsychje calls ghostbusters
<OerHeks> knock knock
<daftykins> OerHeks: who's there?
<OerHeks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe93CLbHjxQ If there's somethin' strange in your neighborhood, Who ya gonna call?
<OerHeks> lotus is funny
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-02
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> i'm gonna claim nerd points for fixing my fridge with cat6
<Bashing-om> necessity - the mother of invention cat6 cable at the rescue !
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> pretty tired now from all that excitement
<Bashing-om> Them grey cells got their exercise, huh ?
<daftykins> hehe, more the physical exertion of cleaning i think :>
<Bashing-om> Well, we can not discount the effect of all those synapses firing in the effort to affect a procedure to affect that non moiserizing condition !
<daftykins> this is very true :>
<Bashing-om> And with all that in evidence, I too think my gray cells require a re-charge. We all do this together at a later time . Good night .
<histo> Please tell me this guy is a troll wtf
<daftykins> ? :)
<histo> daftykins: in ubuntu
<daftykins> ah i part there a lot when i'm not in the mood now, it spares my sanity so much
<daftykins> let me guess, person acting so dumb it seems they can't be legit? :)
<histo> yeah
<daftykins> hehe
<histo> TJ-: yeah he was unable to even edit a file with out help.
<TJ-> I had to go to bed just after I gave him the links to the solutions and mainline kernel installation
<histo> yeah he was pretty helpless. He was trying to tell me he upgraded the kernel but there's no way. He couldn't even edit hte blacklist.conf
<TJ-> I thought last night when he began that the GUI tools have gone so far backward when it comes to standard Accessibility via easily found keyboard alternatives. I remember when the Gnome project was down to 1 developer working on it, and all the other developers ignoring it in their work made that person's job impossible. It didn't get better with Unity
<lotuspsychje> good morning
 * TJ- waves the fan at lotuspsychje 
<lotuspsychje> hi TJ-
<lordievader> Good morning.
<histo> *yawn*
<histo> Do the ops ever approve ubottu suggestions?
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<TJ-> histo: I'm not sure the IRCops group even take notice; There was an appeal a couple years aog for someone to maintain the codebase for ubottu. I responded on the mailing list and never even got a reply, and things were left to bit-rot
 * BluesKaj wonders who's in charge of ubottu maintenance
<TJ-> I was thinking about EriC^^ using | nc termbin.com 999 earlier and wondered if there is way to use termbin without nc/netcat being available.
<TJ-> I've previously written an HTTP server completely in BASH so I came up with this:
<EriC^^> TJ-: there's also sprunge, command | curl -F "sprunge=<-" sprunge.us
<TJ-> exec 3<>/dev/tcp/termbin.com/9999
<EriC^^> nice
<TJ-> From then on you can simply redirect o fd 3, as in "cat /etc/issue >&3 && cat <&3" which writes to the socket,and reads the response
<TJ-> and the socket remains available until you close the fd
<TJ-> exec 3>&-
<TJ-> I wanted this for debugging in early boot, in the initrd. There's a package, bash-static, which doesn't need any external libraries. With that single binary available in initrd as well as the rootfs it provides a very useful diagnostic helper
<EriC^^> yeah
<TJ-> I have a diagnostic/forensics USB key will all these kind of tools pre-installed that can boot on amd64 and i386 with the same userspace. Saved me hours of time and lots of stress over the years
<EriC^^> cool
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-03
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: good day sir
<Johnny_Linux> good day there
<lotuspsychje> its hot again here
<Johnny_Linux> my cup runneth over
<lotuspsychje> 34+
<Johnny_Linux> y
<Johnny_Linux> 85F here
<lotuspsychje> how much is that in egrees
<Johnny_Linux> itl be 100 before its over
<Johnny_Linux> and im in fla usa
<Johnny_Linux> i may move to alaska
<lotuspsychje> (85Â°F-32)Ã5/9
<lotuspsychje> = 29.444444444Â°C
<lotuspsychje> hot
<Johnny_Linux> yeah
<Johnny_Linux> like my x wife was
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> !find hot X
<ubot5> X is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed
<Johnny_Linux> she had back ports too
<lotuspsychje> roflol
<lotuspsychje> and that was good for your version wily?
<Johnny_Linux> he left with her
<lotuspsychje> !willy
<ubot5> It is spelt !wiLy :)
<Johnny_Linux> every time i went to work, i had to leave it on the dresser
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> sweet memorys..
<Johnny_Linux> all my exes live in texas, thats why i cash my check in tennessee
<lotuspsychje> thats prolly a usa joke i cant understand :p
<Johnny_Linux> ya, its a country song about x wives
<lotuspsychje> ahhh
<Johnny_Linux> im only kidding tho, been married once and its going on 31 yrs... good woman
<lotuspsychje> great 2 hear
<lotuspsychje> 5 years togheter here
<lotuspsychje> and a very good woman also
<Johnny_Linux> good job mate
<Johnny_Linux> most people today think marriage is an activity, not a commitment
<lotuspsychje> well we are not married, but do have commitment to each other
<Johnny_Linux> anyway, got customers on the way, back in a while
<lotuspsychje> kk
<Johnny_Linux> your good people, you have a sense of humor, and thats half the battle
<lotuspsychje> : )
<lotuspsychje> go to the backdoor of your customers
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Johnny_Linux> only if they have american express
<lotuspsychje> haha
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje, Johnny_Linux
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hello mate
<Johnny_Linux> mornin
<BluesKaj> hyperch was just telling me about NixOS..interesting concept in theory, but one revgiew found it a steep learning curve for users used to the regular type pacakge management systems
 * daftykins shakes his head at smallfoot
<OerHeks> yeah, find his real issue
<daftykins> dunno, any of you a trained psych? :)
<OerHeks> i classify him as: i can fix it myself better than you.
<OerHeks> if you treat him nice, he might be a good helper
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> oh dear, did i walk in in the middle?
 * OerHeks is no trained schrink b.t.w.
<daftykins> s'ok, i ignored him now
<daftykins> damn i love this function, i've never used it in all my years of IRC
 * daftykins installs Windows 10's latest build
<daftykins> 3 builds in one week, sheesh
<daftykins> that's over 10GB downloaded :>
<daftykins> full of idiots. just... full.
<Johnny_Linux> thats the public school generation, compliments of unesco
<daftykins> ?
<Johnny_Linux> long story
<daftykins> ok don't tell it, doesn't sound remotely interesting :)
<Johnny_Linux> daftykins , are you in usa ??
<daftykins> no
<Johnny_Linux> ok
<EriC^^> good evening all
<daftykins> EriC^: hallo o/
<EriC^> hello o/
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-04
<Johnny_Linux> hes a prick, when he dont get his way, he bans
<daftykins> sure is.
<daftykins> oh man i had to leave again, it's such a time suck that channel
<OerHeks> weekends.
<daftykins> still got this kid in PM downloading windows 8 to a flash drive *facepalm*
<daftykins> managed to get his age out of him, 15... explains the ADD.
<Bashing-om> Patience, the things we do that keeps us occupied ( and not going to jail) .
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> how are we today, Bashing-om? and OerHeks for that matter :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh, I am good, considering. Got to rebuild the starter on my ole pickup, and procrastinating on other matters. So, life is good . Your island ?
<OerHeks> preparing for nice weather this weekend, lazy time
<daftykins> Bashing-om: yeah good thanks :) just created a digitalocean VPS and set it up as an OpenVPN server - i can route traffic via London now, very neat
<daftykins> Bashing-om: does rebuild mean applying new copper to it?
<daftykins> and rewinding
<daftykins> OerHeks: :D more sunshine headed?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Aye, Networking, that is the name of the game .. and "making it work" .
<daftykins> excellent
<daftykins> i do like fixing things
<daftykins> i assume i already bored you both with my fixing a fridge with a network cable snaps :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I really hope it does not come to that point. That thought has accured to me . I hope I can come up with a better alternative .
<OerHeks> fixing a fridge is important now
<daftykins> oh absolutely!
<daftykins> in fact that reminds me i have an ice cream left
<OerHeks> for keeping the milk for hot fresh coffee
<Bashing-om> gotta keep that ice cream at the correct consistency .
<daftykins> ah i'm a fan of black myself
<daftykins> hmm i must finish picking new parts for my mountain bike
<Bashing-om> building or repairing ?
<daftykins> needs a new drivetrain, not changed a single thing since i bought it in 2008 :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixap3kddvynw452/IMG_20130614_025657.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> it's the carbon fibre beasty at the back
<daftykins> it's XC, but i'll be taking it to Wales with some friends on some downhill courses
<Bashing-om> Yeah, a beast, but what a machine .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i love being on two wheels \o/
<OerHeks> me too, free, fast, cheap
<daftykins> yip :>
<daftykins> just the other day someone caused Â£300 damage to my mums brand new car o0
<daftykins> i could replace a lot of parts for that...
<lotuspsychje> morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 38.0+build3-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 39627 kB, installed size 96718 kB
<daftykins> no 39 for you, young man!
<grunhart> They forgot to say, that firefox eats lots of RAM. :S
<lotuspsychje> yeah omgubuntu says 39 is out
<lotuspsychje> guess we have to wait
<Bashing-om> Shift Change; I am out of here .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: nite nite
<daftykins> grunhart: not as much as chrome
<daftykins> !
<grunhart> daftykins: Errr... I have firefox, chrome and midori. And firefox is the most resource heavy after chrome and midori.
<daftykins> uh-huh
<daftykins> so i guess your word makes it fact then huh?
<lotuspsychje> !info preload | grunhart
<daftykins> :P
<ubot5> grunhart: preload (source: preload): adaptive readahead daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.4-2 (vivid), package size 34 kB, installed size 135 kB
<lotuspsychje> grunhart: tweak firefox buffer cache to 0
<lotuspsychje> grunhart: tweak your swappiness,..clean system with bleachbit
<grunhart> O_o bleachbit...?!
<lotuspsychje> grunhart: empty firefox tmp folders
<grunhart> This app is always not recommended... e_e
<daftykins> well who let you in here then o0
<lotuspsychje> why would bleeachbit not be reccomended?
<lotuspsychje> if you know what your doing..
<grunhart> No idea, I always read terrible things. Like, as if this leads beginners to the destruction. lol.
<lotuspsychje> fables...
<grunhart> Anyway, sorry about anything. :S
<ObrienDave> wow ;P
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> curious user.
<ObrienDave> another, "i read it on the internet, therefore it must be true" LMAO
<daftykins> :D
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lordievader> Good afternoon.
 * OerHeks waves and gives lordievader a warm welcome
<lordievader> Warm it is...
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hello mate :p
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Early ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: 21h34
<lotuspsychje> you?
<lotuspsychje> ah you wanna trade shifts already :p
<Bashing-om> I be just a tad early on the channel . Got caught up with an early start elsewhere  . Procrastinating due to rain in the forecast .
<lotuspsychje> 30 degrees here sunny
<Bashing-om> 30 as in celsius or farenhiegth ?
<lotuspsychje> celcius here
<Bashing-om> nice then ! And here we are on the keyboard. Shows where our minds are, huh ?
<lotuspsychje> its too much outside
<lotuspsychje> cool down on irc now :p
<lotuspsychje> lol@#ubuntu
<Bashing-om> yeah, and "patience" is a virtue . Lord only knows what I learn from that exercise .
<OerHeks> Would you do this, 8 hrs/day/paid?
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Wow, now that is a thought ! If I were to be paid for what I do, I might starve to death .
<lotuspsychje> so far for being helpful :p
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: good evening :p
<Johnny_Linux> woohoo
<Johnny_Linux> itl like mthe horse races
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/first-ubuntu-snappy-open-house-announced-ubucon-germany-planning-continues-486050.shtml
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-05
<lotuspsychje> good sunday to all
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<MonkeyDust> i forgot my NAS password, any way to solve this in ubuntu?
 * TJ- taps MonkeyDust on the head .... got it yet?
<MonkeyDust> TJ-  tnx, it dropped out of my ear
<TJ-> You didn't write your passwords down and put them somewhere safe? :O
<OerHeks> TJ-, he kept it in his ear .. aren you listening or do you keep passwords in your ears too ?
<OerHeks> :-D
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> So his password is "earwig" then!
<MonkeyDust> earwax, it is
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-04
<ducasse> morning
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<ducasse> afternoon, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> im having an old acer travelmate that doesnt like lubuntu 16.04
<lotuspsychje> when selecting install or try, both result to black screen idle
<lotuspsychje> F1 text doesnt show any errors
<ducasse> tried nomodeset, or the other options in the menu at the bottom right?
<lotuspsychje> ah lemme test holdon
<lotuspsychje> booting with nomodeset, lets see if it bypasses
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje, ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<ducasse> \o
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: after loading systemd services results in black screen again
<lotuspsychje> and hd led isnt flashing
<lotuspsychje> seems like an idle state
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: is there an error console on vc4?
<lotuspsychje> you mean the text booting?
<lotuspsychje> last screen i see is the services loading correctly and jumps into the black screen instead of further setup screen
<ducasse> the server image has a log going on vc4, iirc, but don't know about the desktop installer.
<lotuspsychje> perhaps i should test 14.04
<lotuspsychje> and see if its related to xenial or not
<lotuspsychje> the disktool on xenial is fantastic, any tested it yet?
<lotuspsychje> fast and stable as rock
<lotuspsychje> asks no password
<ducasse> which disktool? gnome-disks?
<lotuspsychje> startup disk creator
<lotuspsychje> im on unity
<ducasse> i mainly use dd :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ducasse> oh, i see - it creates a persistent live image, not an installer?
<lotuspsychje> yes an installer
<lotuspsychje> !find disk creator
<ubot5> creator is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xenial-proposed, yakkety, yakkety-backports, yakkety-proposed
<lotuspsychje> !find creator
<ubot5> Found: usb-creator-common, usb-creator-gtk, libemail-mime-perl, libemail-simple-perl, mobile-atlas-creator, plume-creator, plume-creator-dbg, qtcreator, qtcreator-data, qtcreator-dbg (and 33 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=creator&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<lotuspsychje> !info usb-creator-gtk
<ubot5> usb-creator-gtk (source: usb-creator): create a startup disk using a CD or disc image (for GNOME). In component main, is optional. Version 0.3.2 (xenial), package size 20 kB, installed size 152 kB (Only available for amd64; i386)
<lotuspsychje> ok, trying lubuntu 14.04.4
<lotuspsychje> seems like 14.04 doesnt want to either
<lotuspsychje> downloading xubuntu then
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ how are you?
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: great :p
<lotuspsychje> alot of work on my new job
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: also started my VAT number and business logo
<EriC^^> awesome
<lotuspsychje> wanna see?
<EriC^^> sure
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://oi65.tinypic.com/jsyagw.jpg
<lotuspsychje> means: resource your computer in english
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> looks good man
<lotuspsychje> thanks, i got that made professionaly
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> decided on the pc's yet?
<EriC^^> the source?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: clevo devices
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i need .be and .nl keybaords
<lotuspsychje> and local webshop that send fast to me
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but ill start first with ubuntu+ssd upgrades of existing boxes
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: then when website is being built add webshop later
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: converting existing boxes will be the cheapest of all
<lotuspsychje> 120gig ssd and ubuntu
<EriC^^> yup
<Ben64> hrm, getting a ton of cpu usage from some weird processes
<Ben64> 'systemd-udevd --daemon' and 'initctl emit indicator-services-start'
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: even after reboot?
<lotuspsychje> brb need to test some hardware on that old lappie
<Ben64>  05:46:12 up 11 days, 10:12,  5 users,  load average: 0.71, 1.37, 3.25
<Ben64> dunno yet
<Ben64> you can see the drop in load after killing those processes
<Ben64> now it's bed time
<Ben64> long day of food and drink ahead
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: A good morni'n to you .. just fixing to terminate. your timing is great .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Miss you and daftykins ...
<lotuspsychje> alot of work here :p
<lotuspsychje> but its temporary
<Bashing-om> life is temporary ! We do the best we can with what we have to work with, yes ?
<lotuspsychje> indeed!
<Bashing-om> Anyway .. I am off to bed - eyes are crossing again .
<ducasse> \o
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hey all
 * nacc ponders the irony of a nick like "kernelhacker" and not knowing where kernel discussions occur, while sipping his coffee. Morning all!
<tsimonq2> nacc: well he didn't say he was "expertkernelhacker"
<ducasse> "did you know kernel.org has kernel documentation?"
<ducasse> you don't say...
<tsimonq2> :O woah! XD
<nacc> tsimonq2: fair enough, and i respnded before i started drinking my coffee, so it's really my own fault :)
<tsimonq2> :)
<ducasse> "i want to run some exploits, but i can't log in" - this is getting better by the minute! :-D
<nacc> heh
<daftykins> \o
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-06
<Bashing-om> Well, that is it for me - yall handle it without me . Be back tomorrow :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the travelmate was too old, it only took xp
<lordievader> Good morning.
<daftykins> \o
<lordievader> Hey daftykins, how are you?
<daftykins> i'm very good thanks, just received a replacement motherboard so having fun reassembling my old core 2 quad desktop :) how're you doing today?
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<daftykins> hey hey \o
<lordievader> daftykins: Ah, nice. I'm going to update the kernel of my vm's :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> oh that's a point, digitalocean said they'd have the 3.13 -91 out today
 * lordievader is upgrading to 4.6.3 from git.
 * daftykins pats LTS
<lordievader> Couple of the vms still run Trusty...
<daftykins> can't see the point in running such recent kernels then :)
<lordievader> It is fun to configure them ;)
<lordievader> And it keeps the versions more in line across the devices.
<pauljw> hi everyone
<nacc> is it just me or is this not the first time maddawg2 has come into #ubuntu all hot and bothered only for it to be PEBKAC?
<Ben64> came in real hot
<nacc> heh
<DArqueBishop> Things have changed in a Linux release? OMG!
<Ben64> ubuntu sucks!
<Ben64> *table flip*
<nacc> poor table
<Ben64> i've been seeing a lot of ubuntu sucks lately
<nacc> a lot of articles (VPS ones) seem to have told their users to upgrade to 16.04
<nacc> which was a bad decision, as 16.04.1 will be (based upon the amount of bugs i've closed alone :) significantly better
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> plus direct upgrades are only enabled then
<nacc> right, so they have been telling their users to use -d
<nacc> i'm mostly worried about those users reading those articles once yakkety opens
<nacc> may already be true
<daftykins> yeah should be taking them to 16.10 already
<daftykins> so much bad advice out there
<nacc> daftykins: yeah, it's almost reaosonable at some point (if you want to test, do this), but written like static fact and then never updated (afaict)
<Ben64> http://ben64.com/ubuntusucks.png
<Ben64> based on #ubuntu chat logs
<nacc> heh, it looks awesomely cyclical with LTS releases
<nacc> as in, i'm guessing those blogs did the same thing for 12.04 -> 14.04 :)
<Ben64> need a larger sample for sure
<Ben64> i'd guess that peak suckiness would be around november 2007
<nacc> progress! :)
<Ben64> 7.10 was horrible on my system, everything was broken all the time, it's what made me go LTS only
<nacc> yeah, i recall similar experiences (but just reinstalled most of my systems with 8.04, iirc)
<daftykins> using server only VMs sure helps my opinion XD
<daftykins> that and i don't believe in upgrades
<nacc> daftykins: heh
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-07
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<nacc> it's like pulling teeth with maddawg2 to get the details
<daftykins> that definitely rings a bell as to one of the more trying best-ignored users
<tgm4883> "I know I did something I shouldn't have so don't bother telling me that, just tell me how to fix it"
<nacc> tgm4883: yep, i stopped trying to help them :/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what did this person do?
<tgm4883> "hello I was trying to upgrade from 14.04 to 15.10 (don't lecture me please) and the upgrade was interrupted.  Now I cannot boot into any OS.  However, I can get into grub and a command prompt.  This is a lenovo laptop."
 * daftykins chuckles
<DArqueBishop> My official advice would probably be, "Use a live CD to back up your data, and rebuild from scratch."
<nacc> DArqueBishop: absolutely
<nacc> esp. given 15.10 goes eol in < 1 month
<Bashing-om> Panicing, and dread has bad bad side effects .. ignoance we can address .. stupidity I let go ! Just can not fix stupidity .
<nacc> and who knows what actually works on that upgrade path
<daftykins> mmm and that direct upgrade must've been achieved through a very bad move
<daftykins> Bashing-om: well said :)
<nacc> daftykins: i assume as much (-d flag to various tools, i think)
<daftykins> or even worse, sources edits D:
<nacc> yeah :/
<dax> and yet people still randomly come out with "but i just change sources.list every time and it works fine!"
<dax> makes me facepalm
<tgm4883> nacc: I don't think the -d would do that
<daftykins> nah -d would more likely be thinking of 16.10 right now
 * tgm4883 bets on the sources.list change
<daftykins> dax: heh yeah, gotta love the anecdotals
<daftykins> i don't even believe in upgrades of any kind
<dax> as i understand it, -d would take you to x or y, not w
<nacc> tgm4883: i don't think so either, but that's what he claimed
<nacc> tgm4883: it might have been one of the GUI tools
<nacc> as opposed to -d explicitly
<tgm4883> nacc: pardon me if I don't believe the guy that says "Don't lecture me on not doing the bad things that I did"
<daftykins> :D
<nacc> tgm4883: :)
<daftykins> there's a certain level of <insert your choice of word here> user that reads enough to know not to do it, then does it
<dax> "knows enough to be dangerous"
<tgm4883> If you want to blow up your system, that's fine with me (and a good way to learn things), but don't bother the channel with that
<DArqueBishop> Personally, I'm of the mindset that if a system is THAT important, I'm upgrading via backing up data and installing a fresh system anyway.
<nacc> DArqueBishop: well, right, they went from LTS to an arbitrary development release because (iirc) 'some things weren't working'
<Bashing-om> I will say I learned the most breaking/fixing my system(s). I have progressed to now to the point I no longer break it !
<daftykins> i do that for all systems, upgrades aren't worth the hope and pray
<nacc> DArqueBishop: which to me means it can't be that important of a system :)
<daftykins> guy about to play tetris blindfolded: www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick
<DArqueBishop> nacc: sounded more like a "I didn't realize how important this system was" system. ;-)
<tgm4883> reminds me of backups
<tgm4883> If you don't have 3 copies on 2 different types of media in more than 1 location, then your data isn't important
<DArqueBishop> tgm4883: right.
 * DArqueBishop has both local and offsite copies of his backups for his servers.
 * nacc just doesn't have that much important stuff :)
<DArqueBishop> nacc: I'm anal, plus my dad's business lives and dies off my mail server.
<nacc> DArqueBishop: wasn't meant as a critique, more just a genuine realization i basically have nothing on my machine(s) i can't recreate easily anymore
<DArqueBishop> nacc: I didn't take it as such. :-)
<Bashing-om> As above, I broke it enough to learn to keep backups ! .. Yes I do have as tgm4883 says . Practice, I can re-install in 20 minutes !
<daftykins> !info linux-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-generic (source: linux-meta): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.28.30 (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 11 kB
<daftykins> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.28.30 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 11 kB
<daftykins> i thought it had newer than 4.4 o0
<Bashing-om> Whoda thunk it - this quick - jon5000 onward and upward to 16.04 .
<nacc> daftykins: nah, 4.4. in xenial, 4.7/4.8 in yakkety
<nacc> daftykins: so 16.04.1 hwe will get that stack too, iiuc
<nacc> but i'm not sure they've published the first yakkety kernels yet (meaning it's still in sync with xenial)
<daftykins> all the cool kids never touch non-LTS ;)
<nacc> daftykins: :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-08
<BluesKaj_> Hiyas all
<tgm4883> nacc: are you suggesting that 15.10 was a development release?
<nacc> tgm4883: sorry, typo'd, still waking up :)
<tgm4883> ok :)
<tgm4883> I know some people do call non-lts releases dev releases, and they really shouldn't
<nicomachus> boo. forgot to turn on my PC at home this morning. can't backup without it...
<nacc> tgm4883: yep, it's a bad habit on my part
<daftykins> from work o0
<tgm4883> nicomachus: upgrade and if things go awry then restore from your normal backups?
<nicomachus> tgm4883: it's been a couple weeks. :/
<nicomachus> daftykins: yes from work. in my line of work, everything is owned by me. data, documents, etc. I guarantee no one else on staff has backups anywhere. but they all run windows so don't think about updating OS's or anything like htat.
<daftykins> heh, nasty
<daftykins> think i'd rather take in an external HDD though and have the benefit of speed
<nicomachus> heh. the external HDD is currently plugged into my PC at home. :/
<nicomachus> I think it's actually a faster transfer that way anyway. I have parallel gigabit on both machines, but this laptop only has USB 2.0 and the PC at home has 3.0
<nicomachus> so max on this machine would be, what, 500 Mbps?
<daftykins> far less, speed of the drive if it's mechanical
<daftykins> less still if the enclosure doesn't support UASP
<nicomachus> true. it is mechanical.
<daftykins> i'm gonna see if i can reassemble my old graphics card without the air gap i noticed last time, hoping it's not entirely dead after all
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6r082z849o8xzi/IMG_20160707_161300.jpg?dl=0
<nicomachus> model/
<nicomachus> s///?/
<daftykins> 2GB nvidia 560Ti
<daftykins> got the lovely new MSI nvidia 1070 8GB in my new desktop build :D
 * tgm4883 sighs
<daftykins> more delightful customers?
<tgm4883> Not customers this time
<tgm4883> I just find it so much fun when we point out that we shouldn't support something (in this instance, we shouldn't help enable a user stay on an EOL version) and the persons response (that is enabling this) is "I'm just providing unbiased facts. End of discussion"
<tgm4883> I mean, get off yourself dude
<daftykins> some guy is helping someone keep running EOL?
<daftykins> that's as damaging as the ones that say lubuntu can revive a turd like a netbook :( very frustrating
<tgm4883> yep
<daftykins> bearing in mind the rule on support in here, has anyone used mod_evasive with apache2 before?
<daftykins> ah nevermind :) just for reference though, i had a web server getting hammered by random IPs that kept changing - mod_evasive is kind of like an alternative to fail2ban but built into apache - it's now blocking IPs based on repeated access attempts which before were causing apache to fall over
<Bashing-om> Heads up. the forum has problems posting .. expect our traffic load on the channel to increase .
<daftykins> ooh dear!
<daftykins> Bashing-om: just in time for the weekend masses ;)
<Bashing-om> Oh Joy ! See what all you are missing .. daftykins I miss ya on the channel !
<daftykins> :) thanks sir
<daftykins> missing you on #squoo.sh too!
<Bashing-om> There not a thing going on in squoo.sh; when there is .. I can and will join .. where oh where has our fearless leader got off to ?
<daftykins> True, that - but a nice little camp for us to chat in. I'd wager he's buried under a project or two :) He did mention buying a new farm for a new build iirc
<Bashing-om> yeah .. I can accept that building a new house ( as in domicile) will take up ALL time .
<Bashing-om> you, me and 2 others in #squoo.sh .... pickens are slim .
<daftykins> plus you know how much he likes to multi-task with and keep going on the back burners :D
<Bashing-om> Then again, maybe a flood wiped out his data center ??
<daftykins> ah he seemed to think he's pretty safe from floods i think
<Bashing-om> Next time lotus checks in .. will have him ping TJ-; he was able once before to raise him up to provide his status .
<daftykins> ah no i did that by dropping him an email :)
<daftykins> could certainly check in on him again
<Bashing-om> Ho Kay; Time to see if he is still breathing ?
<daftykins> sure can
<Bashing-om> when #squoo.sh channel number lights up .. will know TJ- is on !
<daftykins> bit too engrossed in a task of my own right now though :(
<Bashing-om> Forum is back in business :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-09
<Mihasi> Alright, to continue the discussion from #ubuntu. mchelen2: like you said, this is completely anecdotal, but in general, whenever I look up something related to linux software, I find it easier/faster on the Arch wiki.
<Mihasi> For example, tonight I'm trying to learn about GPUs and graphics drivers in Ubuntu.
<Mihasi> And the last thing I was looking up is this "intel-microcode" driver that shows up in my Additional Drivers.
<Mihasi> So I go to https://help.ubuntu.com/ and type in "microcode", and I see no official wiki pages but a bunch of links to AskUbuntu questions.
<Mihasi> In this particular case, I was lucky enough that the second link has an answer that explains what microcode is, so I didn't have to spend too much time scrolling too unrelated questions or irrelevant answers.
<Mihasi> On the other hand, when I search the Arch wiki for "microcode", I immediately get this page https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Microcode and in two lines I have my answer.
<daftykins> yep they seem to have better docs than most distros, whether that applies to all distros though, is another story.
<Mihasi> Sure
<tgm4883> TBF, microcode isn't something that a regular user would need to bother themselves with
<Mihasi> It was just one example...
<tgm4883> but secondly (and more importantly in my opinion) is that you found it on the Arch wiki. Last I checked Arch uses the Linux kernel. It's not like you found it on a Microsoft wiki or an OSX blog
<mchelen2> Mihasi: i mean i generally agree with this example, i just wouldn't try to generalize based on that
<Mihasi> True, but the nice thing for Arch users is that apart from this background information that applies to Linux in general, they also get a up-to-date information on how to install this on their specific distro.
<Mihasi> mchelen2, but this has been my general experience since I've started using Ubuntu.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I think that's where we have a difference of opinion. You keep making it sound like it's a bad thing that you found it on the Arch wiki
<mchelen2> Mihasi: ok, but i cant really speak to your general experience
<Mihasi> And I don't think I'm the only one with this experience. At least I've seen similar remarks mentioned multiple times.
<daftykins> at least when i was last involved, there seemed to be a lot of folk that had to install that microcode update along with proprietary graphics drivers for them to work (can't remember if that was just a discrete nvidia or an nvidia optimus situation though)
<mchelen2> Mihasi: thats still super generalized and nothing i can specifically agree or disagree with
<daftykins> what was actually the point in bringing this up?
<mchelen2> i can see value in discussing "how can we improve ubuntu documentation? what problems does it have that we can address?"
<daftykins> yes, which leads to two questions to users really
<daftykins> 1) do they know wikis are user editable?
<Mihasi> There was someone in #ubuntu asking up-to-date info on how to install a (commercial) software package, and I made a remark about how I found it frustrating that the Ubuntu documentation often lacks centralized, up-to-date information (in my experience)
<mchelen2> but a sort of generic "is wiki A better than wiki B? i heard a bunch of people say so" is not something i know how to act on
<daftykins> 2) if they do, why aren't they helping others with what they learn?
<mchelen2> daftykins: personally i find wikis to have a somewhat high barrier to entry, but they still may be the best option available
<daftykins> yeah, bit of hassle to create an article
<daftykins> it would probably be handy to know if folks don't know they can help others with it, though
<mchelen2> i sort of like discussion based help systems like ask ubuntu
<daftykins> i find those a nightmare because they come up in search results but they're often outdated or wrong
<Mihasi> mchelen2, Well, all I was really saying is: I" find that wiki A is better than wiki B in general", but I agree that this is not something that can be acted on directly.
<mchelen2> Mihasi: yeah i mean i appreciate your perspective, but i don't really know how to evaluate that objectively
<Mihasi> And yes, same here. Always reminds me of this XKCD comic: https://xkcd.com/979/
<daftykins> what made you come from arch to ubuntu?
 * daftykins predicts the "what did you see!?" xkcd :D
<mchelen2> daftykins: in this use case of finding info on microcode at least ask ubuntu has more info than the ubuntu wiki
<daftykins> XD
<Mihasi> mchelen2, that is definitely true. :D
<daftykins> ah so you didn't use arch then move
<Mihasi> I did use Arch for a couple of months.
<daftykins> what made you switch?
<Mihasi> I started on Fedora, eventually moved to Ubuntu, then Arch, then Windows again for a loooong time.
<mchelen2> daftykins: it would be nice if the ask ubuntu search would prioritize highly rated answers better
<tgm4883> Am I the one one that thinks it's possibly a bad idea to copy simple things from one wiki to another
<Mihasi> And now timing constraints made me switch back to Ubuntu.
<mchelen2> tgm4883: yeah i agree, it contradicts DIY
<mchelen2> err DRY
<mchelen2> lol
<dax> "wikis are user editable" => did wiki.ubuntu.com ever stop being restricted after that spam nonsense
<mchelen2> tgm4883: its better to link, although in a perfect world there would be transparent embed options
<dax> i'd go look but the dang thing never loads right for me
<daftykins> i think i had a lot of faffing to endure when i wanted to submit one of those macbook articles
<daftykins> !mac
<ubot5> For help on installing and using Ubuntu on a Mac, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<Mihasi> It used to be cool to do a CLI-based distro install, but now I prefer things to "just work", and Ubuntu is far better in that department than Arch.
<daftykins> can you tell which one i wrote? :) look down the LTS column from the top and look at the first release that seems to stand out...
<tgm4883> transparent embed options only matter for the people that think they need to brand everything
<tgm4883> I used to be like that
<daftykins> heh yeah masochism and ones OS should not go together
<mchelen2> i'm not talking about branding, i'm talking about maintaining a consistent user experience
<tgm4883> meh, the second you need to jump to the internet to find something, you aren't going to find a consistent user experience
<mchelen2> :P
<Mihasi> daftykins, MacBook6-1/Lucid?
<Mihasi> and lol
<tgm4883> it's unobtainable
<daftykins> nope trusty on 3,1
<daftykins> hardy is like, 8.04? lucid is 10.04 and trusty is 14.04
<tgm4883> you find me an online resource that has a consistent user experience, and I'll find you a user that has an issue that resource doesn't have an answer for
<daftykins> check out this curvy board :) http://i.imgur.com/R76mL5O.jpg the very chunky scythe mugen heatsink caused that over many years
<Mihasi> tgm4883, but isn't that the point of transparent embedding? to prevent the user from having to jump to the internet to find something, but to instead see all of the information on one site?
<Mihasi> (as opposed to providing links that *do* make them jump)
<daftykins> i think all this pointless chatter would be better served writing a few articles
 * daftykins coughs
<Mihasi> At this point at night, all I'm good for is pointless chatter. :P
<mchelen2> actual productivity is tiring
<mchelen2> but dont let us stop you :D
<tgm4883> Mihasi: by that definition, they would already be on the internet. Unless you are suggesting some app that exists on in a default ubuntu install. I know, we could give it some cool animal name. How about a Fox
<Mihasi> Also, when I'm writing articles/my thesis all day, I don't have much motivation left to write more articles at night. :P
<Mihasi> tgm4883, I'm not sure if I understand your point. What I imagine transparent embedding of wiki pages to be is: I look up "microcode" in the Ubuntu documentation, I get an Ubuntu wiki-page with the same text as on the Arch wiki, seemingly without having left the Ubuntu wiki. And maybe with some additional instructions on how to install it on Ubuntu underneath the embedded text.
<daftykins> but enough to come on IRC and ramble :)
<tgm4883> Mihasi: and what if the Arch wiki doesn't have any information on microcode?
<daftykins> i don't mean to pick on you there, it's the same sentiment which is why most of the ubuntu docs are outdated or rubbish
<tgm4883> daftykins: what else are we going to do while waiting for spaceships to dock?
<Mihasi> So instead of jumping from the Ubuntu wiki to the Arch wiki, then back to the Ubuntu wiki, then to AskUbuntu for installation instructions. Instead of visiting 3 pages, I only have to visit 1.
<Mihasi> tgm4883, then I guess there should be a transparent embedding of another wiki that does have information. :P
<tgm4883> Mihasi: Literally the only thing that helps is in Ubuntu branding...
<Mihasi> ...
<daftykins> honestly i think your argument is a bad one
<tgm4883> Mihasi: Ok, lets take a step back
<Mihasi> You don't see how, for a user, it's a better experience to only have to click once and visit one page than visiting 3 separate pages?
<mchelen2> tgm4883: i think new users might totally ignore archwiki content, unless it is curated to be applicable to ubuntu
<tgm4883> Mihasi: what you want is to be able to go to the ubuntu wiki, search for something and be able to find information on it (all on the ubuntu wiki) right?
<Mihasi> Yup
<tgm4883> Mihasi: ok, so in order to do that, you're going to have to have this "transparent embedding" of enough different websites so it has information for any request, right?
<mchelen2> "any" is an overly broad scope
<mchelen2> lets settle for "more"
<tgm4883> mchelen2: fine, switch any with 90%.
<mchelen2> tgm4883: 90% of all problems?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: mchelen2 so what I described is accurate to what you want?
<mchelen2> let me rephrase
<mchelen2> lets say ubuntu wiki covers 1000 issues
<tgm4883> mchelen2: "more" is vague
<tgm4883> 2 is more than 1
<mchelen2> yes, that seems extremely specific to me
<tgm4883> mchelen2: Mihasi: ok, so in order to do that, you're going to have to have this "transparent embedding" of enough different websites so it has information for most requests, right?
<tgm4883> is that better?
<Mihasi> Alright, for the same of argument let's say that the ultimate goal is to cover at least 90% of the issues or information that Ubuntu users want access to.
<mchelen2> lets say ubuntu wiki covers 1000 issues. if you can transclude content for 200 more, that would be swell
<mchelen2> tgm4883: i never used the word "most"
<tgm4883> mchelen2: true, but you are super vague on what you actually want
<mchelen2> tgm4883: i just gave an extremely specific example, with hypothetical numbers
<tgm4883> mchelen2: so explain to me what you want. We can use Mihasi's example if you want
<Mihasi> I think just had trouble with the wording "any request".
<mchelen2> use the example i just stated
<tgm4883> mchelen2: Mihasi ok, so using those examples. You want to be able to search all that from inside the ubuntu wiki, correct?
<Mihasi> Alright, so the ultimate goal is to cover at least 20% of the issues. ^^
<Mihasi> Yes
<mchelen2> tgm4883: yes, the wiki would search 1200 pages, instead of 1000
<tgm4883> Congratulations, you just invented Google Custom Search Engine
<mchelen2> federated search is fine
<tgm4883> it's basically one step narrower than google.com
<Mihasi> You don't see any difference between a general search engine and a site specifically tailored towards Ubuntu?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: you apparently don't know what google custom search engine is
<Mihasi> Ah, I ignored the word custom.
<Mihasi> Carry on.
<Mihasi> :P
<mchelen2> tgm4883: yeah the part that you are missing is we dont want to include all of the arch wiki, we want whitelisted articles or article sections which apply to ubuntu
<tgm4883> mchelen2: ah ok, and who is going to currate that?
<mchelen2> if you want to do that via CSE, thats fine
<mchelen2> tgm4883: its part of the wiki....
<Mihasi> tgm4883, the same people who curate the wiki now, no?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: that won't work
<mchelen2> tgm4883: so instead of writing an article covering the microcode stuff, basically link to the arch wiki page
<mchelen2> which then gets included in search results
<Mihasi> Exactly
<tgm4883> mchelen2: Mihasi That won't work. As you both have pointed out already, the Ubuntu wiki is terrible. What makes you think the currators are going to go through the trouble of linking to content when they weren't even bothered enough to write a wiki page on what you were looking for now?
<mchelen2> because linking content is easier than writing a page from scratch?
<tgm4883> mchelen2: But linking a page isn't what you asked for
<tgm4883> mchelen2: you asked that it be tranparently linked. So it has to look good inside the ubuntu wiki
<mchelen2> tgm4883: thats what an embed is...
<tgm4883> mchelen2: it would be much simpilier for them to just copy&paste the content
<tgm4883> mchelen2: this is all ignoring the fact that nobody has done this already
<mchelen2> the problem there is handling updates
<mchelen2> tgm4883: mediawiki lets you transclude content from within a wiki. i'm talking about that feature across domains
<mchelen2> but yeah we are speaking purely theoretically
<tgm4883> mchelen2: why don't we just have one wiki?
<mchelen2> sarcasm?
<tgm4883> mchelen2: no
<mchelen2> who is "we"?
<tgm4883> mchelen2: you're talking about some ideal solution that you want everyone to follow. I'm proposing a different ideal solution that everyone should follow
<mchelen2> the basic issue is that a single org has to have admin control
<tgm4883> We just have one, wiki.linux.com
<tgm4883> fedora/ubuntu/arch all put our stuff there
<mchelen2> tgm4883: i never said it was ideal, its just one approach
<mchelen2> tgm4883: ok swell, thats another approach
<Mihasi> Yes, that would also be a solution.
<Mihasi> Although in that case, user's would have to be Linux-minded instead of distro-minded. I wonder if for example Arch users would want to be bunched together with all other Linux users.
<tgm4883> There's another problem with that solution (as is a problem with the former solution you proposed)
<tgm4883> You're relying on other people to do all the work
<daftykins> g'night folks
<tgm4883> night daftykins
<mchelen2> tgm4883: thats the same as right now
<mchelen2> ofc someone has to write the article in the first place
<Mihasi> Night night daftykins
<mchelen2> the point is it should only have to be written once, and they be available in ways that are easy for users to find
<Mihasi> Yes
<tgm4883> mchelen2: no. Right now ubuntu is hosting the content. In your proposed solution, if the other wiki page goes away, the content is lost
<Mihasi> tgm4883, How is that different from linking or from having it all on one big Linux-wiki (which can also go away)?
<mchelen2> tgm4883: right now the ubuntu wiki is totally missing this content. so even if some of it was lost later, you would still have more than you started with
<mchelen2> yeah also what Mihasi said
<tgm4883> I'm glad we're all on the same page, that all of these solutions suck
<mchelen2> everything sucks, all you can do is make things suck slightly less :D
<tgm4883> mchelen2: I'm glad you said that. You can start here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ let me know which articles you've fixed
<Mihasi> So now you're saying that the only good solution is to actually have a completely separate Ubuntu-specific wiki after all?
<mchelen2> tgm4883: last time i checked, your job title didn't include directing user contributions
<tgm4883> mchelen2: and yours is complaining on IRC then :P
<Mihasi> How is it complaining? We started from the question "how could we improve the Ubuntu documentation"
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I'm saying that I haven't seen a solution posted that is objectively better
<mchelen2> tgm4883: i'm pretty sure that's what irc was invented for. but i appreciate that you consider discussions of alternative approaches to be complaining :D
<tgm4883> mchelen2: look, you can take shots at me all you want. I'm the only one that bothered to have this discussion with you...
<Mihasi> Oh, so now I don't exist anymore? O.o
<tgm4883> Mihasi: come off it, that's not what I meant at all
<mchelen2> tgm4883: if all your input consists of pointing out that no proposed solutions are perfect, i'm honestly struggling to find the value of it
<tgm4883> mchelen2: I'm well aware that we don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good. I just find your approach lacks being good
<tgm4883> wait no
<mchelen2> thats not really a specific enough claim to be evaluated
<tgm4883> mchelen2: your approach is good, I just don't see the need for it
<mchelen2> ok i mean, fair enough, thats a subjective perspective you are entitled to have
<tgm4883> mchelen2: well TBF, you have dismissed all of my objections to it
<mchelen2> i feel that i have specifically addressed each one
<mchelen2> at which point you added another and another to the laundry list
<tgm4883> mchelen2: really? I said who is going to currate this and you haven't addressed that at all. You're response was "the same people who currate it now" which is laughable considering how bad you think the current situation is
<mchelen2> tgm4883: you realize that objection is a separate one from your position that you "don't see the need"
<tgm4883> yes...
<tgm4883> apparently I'm limited to one objection of this idea
<Mihasi> To add to that, I don't see how that response was laughable, considering that the current situation might be bad because the current curators don't have enough time to work on it.
<Mihasi> And since embedding would be faster than writing new content, it might be a better solution.
<mchelen2> i don't really want to go through a list of 10 different concerns you have. pick one
<mchelen2> Mihasi: yeah thats basically the argument i made about why such an approach would reduce burden on curators
<justsomeguy> It would be nice if there was a page that aggregated pages about the same topic from different linux wikis and displayed them all on screen at once.
<tgm4883> justsomeguy: just need someone to work on it....
<Mihasi> That actually sounds like an interesting project. *-)
<justsomeguy> tgm4883: I wish I knew enough web development stuff to implement it.
<tgm4883> justsomeguy: well that's a common problem
<tgm4883> "Hey guys, I've got this great idea. Why don't you build it"
<Mihasi> So people who don't have the time or skills to contribute should not share their ideas or join in discussions?
 * tgm4883 rolls eyes
<justsomeguy> I don't think that what tgm4883 was saying.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: you can spin what I said however it makes you feel better
<mchelen2> yeah i agree ideas are cheap, implementations are expensive
<tgm4883> Mihasi: but I've first hand experience being on the wrong side of these types of discussions
<justsomeguy> Also, not my idea, I was just summarizing someone elses point from earlier on in this chat.
<mchelen2> but at the same time i dont think its productive to discourage theorizing
<tgm4883> Be the change you want to see in the world
<justsomeguy> That's the plan. I just have to learn a bunch 'o stuff first. ...damned JavaScript.
<Mihasi> tgm4883, I don't necessarily feel better or worse, but this is you've repeated "then why don't you do it?" a number of times in the course of the discussion and I don't feel that contributes.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: you've got to look at the other side of the argument though
<mchelen2> i didn't have a problem with tgm4883's last comment, it was the 200 before that which bothered me
<mchelen2> :D
<Mihasi> Although I do agree that it is important to be realistic about what *can* be done, that doesn't mean we can't talk about what *should* be done.
<tgm4883> mchelen2: and you are entitled to be bothered by it :)
<mchelen2> its the difference between "i have an idea" "great! go build it" and "i have an idea" "that will never work, its pointless"
<mchelen2> the former is totally fine
<tgm4883> mchelen2: actually it's more "I have an idea" "That doesn't seem worth the effort over our current solution"
<mchelen2> tgm4883: right, and i dont see the point of discouraging ppl, if they are not asking you to do it
<mchelen2> you could just as easily say "that would be a nice feature, but its a lot of work, if you want to do it that would be great"
<mchelen2> it costs you nothing
<Mihasi> Yes, or "good idea, we'll take it up with the devs/contributors and see if anyone has the time to work on it"
<mchelen2> Mihasi: well in that case you are taking on extra work
<tgm4883> You're still asking someone do it
<tgm4883> err, someone else
<mchelen2> yeah in my example, nobody is being asked to do anything
<Mihasi> True, but what is so bad about asking?
<Mihasi> (As long as you're not forcing anyone to do it.)
<mchelen2> asking is a form of pressure
<mchelen2> in any case we can debate that issue, but it wasn't the example i was trying to use
<mchelen2> in this whole convo i have literally never asked anyone to do anything
<tgm4883> mchelen2: that is true
<mchelen2> thats why i mean by saying, encouragement costs nothing
<Mihasi> But asking is wrong because it is a form of pressure?
<mchelen2> Mihasi: i mean it depends on the circumstances, but i think we can imagine cases where asking for things is not appropriate, even if nobody is forced to do anything
<mchelen2> Mihasi: you wouldn't go to a car dealer and ask them for a free car, it would be rude
<tgm4883> I think if you're going to ask someone to do something, you should have some "skin in the game"
<Mihasi> Of course, but I don't think asking developers to implement some idea that you might not have the skill to implement yourself.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: honestly, I think that's a cop out
<mchelen2> Mihasi: consider that it takes time to evaluate a request. if a dev has to read through 10,000 requests, they can't get anything else done
<mchelen2> Mihasi: we might imagine a situation where those requests are filtered, reviewed, and recommended by other users, then maybe the top 10 get passed along
<Mihasi> If you put yourself forward as a voluntary software developer for Ubuntu (for example), doesn't that imply that you're willing to work on features that Ubuntu users would want?
<mchelen2> ofc in the open source world, how we define "the devs" is a little unclear
<tgm4883> Mihasi: no, not at all
<Mihasi> And sure, that would be a good way of doing it.
<Mihasi> I'm not saying every idea or request that ever pops up in IRC should go to the devs directly.
<mchelen2> Mihasi: not necessarily, maybe you are only working on a feature you want. if other ppl benefit too, thats great
<mchelen2> its a little weird to talk about "the devs" as a specific group of ppl
<tgm4883> Mihasi: someone that puts themselves as a voluntary software developer for Ubuntu (for example), implies that they are willing to work on features that one Ubuntu uses wants
<Mihasi> Hmm, okay. I hadn't considered that some people might only want to work on one specific feature that's primarily interesting for them.
<mchelen2> i've contributed to specific bugs that affected me in ubuntu distros. once the bug is fixed, i'm done. it doesn't necessarily mean i'm interested in creating new features
<Mihasi> That makes sense.
<mchelen2> that doesn't apply to all devs, just trying to convey that ppl contribute for a variety of reasons, in a bunch of different ways
<Mihasi> Yeah, I hadn't considered that.
<Mihasi> My own view on volunteering is different.
<Mihasi> (I'm a volunteer for the Red Cross, and in my mind I was comparing turning down ideas for features to turning away patients because "I only signed up to do CPR, I'm not interested in treating open wounds, go do it yourself".)
<Mihasi> Didn't consider that fact that this is a completely different situation. :P
<mchelen2> ah lol
<Mihasi> Needless to say, I haven't contributed to big software projects yet. :P
<mchelen2> imagine if you signed up to be a red cross volunteer in chicago
<mchelen2> and they said you were being transferred to syria
<mchelen2> you might be like, "i didn't sign up for this!"
<Mihasi> Ah, but isn't that different?
<mchelen2> nope, its 100% the same :D
<Mihasi> I don't think so, because here I have no choice.
<tgm4883> which one don't you have a choice in?
<Mihasi> If they were to ask me if I would be willing to go help out in Syria, I could say no.
<Mihasi> I wouldn't be upset that they'd ask me though, because that's part of what the organization I joined does.
<mchelen2> i see what you are saying, but imagine if they asked you every 15 minutes
<Mihasi> Yeah, I can imagine that's different. ^^
<tgm4883> Mihasi: would you go to Syria to help the red cross?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: would you go to Iran to help the red cross?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: would you go to Russia to help the red cross?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: would you go to Canada to help the red cross?
<Mihasi> lol
<tgm4883> Mihasi: would you go to Ohio to help the red cross?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: would you go to Columbia to help the red cross?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: would you go to Mars to help the red cross?
<mchelen2> oh god
<mchelen2> yes to mars
<Mihasi> See!
<tgm4883> Do you have V/\_ Blood?
<mchelen2> also acceptable: french riviera
<tgm4883> because that is what they need on Mars
<Mihasi> It might be annoying to get so many requests, but eventually one gets through that is super-interesting! :P
<mchelen2> no, but i can get some
<mchelen2> Mihasi: yeah i think the issue is really about bandwidth, how to triage feature requests and find the best bang for buck
<Mihasi> Absolutely
<Mihasi> But that's like you suggested: a first triage could be done by other people who have no programming skills, so only the most important or innovative ideas reach the devs.
<tgm4883> It's a lot more appealing to hear "Hey I have this sweet idea, but I don't know how to do X. Could you help me accomplish this" rather than "Hey I have this sweet idea, can you do it for me?"
<Mihasi> Kind if like we do the small stuff at the RC so the real doctors and nurses have more time for the serious cases.
<Mihasi> Sure, can't argue with that.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: do you ever learn anything from the doctors or nurses?
<Mihasi> Yes, but not enough to do their job.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: do you ever learn from other resources that would help you with the RC?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: ok, not enough to do there job. That is fine. But could you assist them?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: if they were like "take this guys blood pressure", could you do it?
<Mihasi> Sure
<tgm4883> Mihasi: So why is it so different then to learn something related to the task at hand with ubuntu?
<Mihasi> It depends on what your goal is.
<mchelen2> i don't think Mihasi said it was different
<mchelen2> maybe i missed something
<Mihasi> I wanted to get into the RC because I'm interested in health care, so I wanted to learn how to be healthy and how to help other people to be healthy.
<Mihasi> But the people/patients I treat only want to become healthy themselves, they are not interested in learning about health care or in providing it for others.
<Mihasi> I don't think every Ubuntu user that has an idea on how to improve Ubuntu wants -or should want- to also be a developer.
<mchelen2> yeah i think thats fair
<tgm4883> nobody said they needed to be
<mchelen2> yeah i just took it as a general point
<mchelen2> oh or that there should be a way for ppl to make feature requests
<mchelen2> even when they cant do it themselves
<Mihasi> In that case I misunderstood. I thought your argument was that it would be best if the people who suggest new features should want to implement them themselves, or should be willing to learn how to implement them.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: no, my point was that they should contribute in some way (more than the idea itself)
<Mihasi> Maybe they do.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: they most likely don't, or contribute very little
<Mihasi> Maybe they're using Ubuntu to find a cure for cancer, but they have an issue with some piece of Ubuntu software?
<tgm4883> irrelevant
<mchelen2> i don't think people necessarily need to contribute more to have their suggestion be valid
<mchelen2> but their suggestion may not carry a huge amount of weight
<mchelen2> so if 1 user makes a suggestion, it may not get much consideration, unless 10k ppl have that same suggestion
<tgm4883> mchelen2: that was my point. Not that it's not valid, just that as a developer, I'm less inclined to want to work on your suggestion unless it sounds particularily appealing
<Mihasi> Oh, that's completely fine.
<Mihasi> But you're point a few minutes ago was "that they should contribute in some way (more than the idea itself)"
<mchelen2> tgm4883: yeah and i think volunteer devs totally have discretion over their time & attention
<Mihasi> That's what I was arguing against.
<mchelen2> it depends if "should" means that ideally they would contribute more, or that they must contribute more for their suggestions to be valid
<Mihasi> But of course volunteer devs should be completely free to work on what they find interesting.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I'm not sure where the hang up is, yes, I think if you have an idea you should contribute in some way. If you don't contribute in some way, that doens't make your idea invalid, it just makes it less appealing
<Mihasi> In my opinion it doesn't... To go back to my extreme example: if they're working on a cure for cancer, I don't think it would be ideal for them to learn to program and contribute.
<Mihasi> Yup, than it's clear where the hang up is: I was interpreting it as you saying those ideas are not valid/should not be considered.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: a few things, 1) bringing up working on cancer is pointless and irrelevant to the argument unless the developer happens to have cancer. 2) one does not have to learn how to program to contribute
<Mihasi> If you're only saying that they're less appealing, I'm not going to argue with that.
<Mihasi> Haha, looks like we're going to have another hang-up then.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: on which part
<Mihasi> Mainly that my example is irrelevant and pointless. :P
<tgm4883> Mihasi: you're trying to persuade me by tugging at my heart strings. It's childish
<Mihasi> If you would be saying that a suggestion is less valid if the user does not contribute directly to Ubuntu in some way, my counter-argument would be that they might be working on something else that is equally (or even more) important.
<Mihasi> No I'm not. I'm giving merely giving an example of something I think would contribute to humanity.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: ok, so what about this example. A developer gets three completely different suggestions and can only work on one. The first is from someone working on cancer research, the second is from a business owner willing to pay the developer $50,000, the third is from the developers wife. Which suggestion should the developer choose to implement
<Mihasi> So I do not see how that would be irrelevant. But on the other hand, as you're apparently talking about what is more appealing to you as a dev, and not about what is more valid, we don't disagree on that.
<Mihasi> Depends. Does the developer have enough money to support himself and his family?
<tgm4883> Sure
<Mihasi> Then for me the 50k option is out.
<Mihasi> The second choice is a bit more difficult.
<tgm4883> This actually has a pretty easy answer, although it's a bit of a trick question
<Mihasi> Does the suggestion of the cancer researcher something that would make him more effective at his work?
<Mihasi> I assume the answer is: he should work on the one he finds most interesting.
<tgm4883> No, he should work on whatever his wife want's him to :P
<tgm4883> happy wife happy life
<Mihasi> Ah, so it's a joke. :P
<tgm4883> Mihasi: it's a joke, but it's completely valid and here's why.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: Lets say it was just the first two options, and the developer makes the average wage for his area for a developer of his expertise. which should he choose?
<Mihasi> Same question as before: is the suggestion made by the cancer researcher something that would improve his efficiency?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: Sure
<tgm4883> but remember
<tgm4883> This time, it's your average developer spending his free time working on some project
<Mihasi> Heh, this is intersting.
<tgm4883> (that would be the answer )
<Mihasi> I would make that choice in a heartbeat myself, but I'm still thinking of whether it should apply generally.
<tgm4883> The answer would be he should work on whatever he wants to (which is what you said)
<Mihasi> Yeah, that was what I thought the official answer would be.
<Mihasi> Not my personal opinion.
<tgm4883> you'd pick cancer research?
<Mihasi> According to my -currently utilitarian- way of thinking, the developer should work on those things that make the most people more happy (or less unhappy).
<Mihasi> So yes, cancer research.
<tgm4883> What if it's just a low risk low probability cancer and the business man is working to feed the homeless?
<Mihasi> Then it becomes an even more interesting problem. :D
<tgm4883> Mihasi: it really doesn't. The developer should work on whatever he wants
<Mihasi> Weeeeeell, let's agree to disagree.
<mchelen2> i can understand prioritizing bugs
<tgm4883> Mihasi: why should he be forced to work on the one for the cancer reasearcher just because it affects more people
<mchelen2> bugs or features
<mchelen2> but that is part of overall development process, usually not determined by 1 user
<Mihasi> Because -in my opinion- the world would be a better place if people valued other people's happiness the same as their own.
<mchelen2> thats a very idealistic view of the world that i dont think matches reality unfortunately
<Mihasi> It doesn't. But it's something worth striving for. (Again, in my opinion.)
<tgm4883> Mihasi: let me rephrase, why should the cancer researcher get free work done for him just because he's working on cancer research
<mchelen2> Mihasi: yeah but even if we work toward that goal, we have to be aware of the current situation
<Mihasi> mchelen2, yes, but we're talking about "which option *should* the developer choose in this fictional situation".
<mchelen2> from a personal perspective, if i'm trying to decide between fixing bug A and bug B, and A will affect 2 people and B affects 500 people (even indirectly) i will prioritize B
<tgm4883> this fictional situation never existed in an ideal world, nor a vacuum
<mchelen2> the problem is logistically, how do you determine if that is true?
<Mihasi> tgm4883, because he's working on something that could help a lot of people suffer less. (Again, provided that the feature request is something that would make him more effective in that goal.)
 * nacc_ tries to read scrollback, checks the clock, gives up
<Mihasi> lol
<mchelen2> Mihasi: like how does the dev know if this cancer researcher has any chance of success
<Mihasi> Aha, that's another very interesting question.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I'm starting to think you'd be all about a "cancer researcher" card that they could just go to places and get free stuff. Walk into a restaurant and hand them  the card, free food. Walk into a massage parlor, get a free massage
<mchelen2> Mihasi: or maybe they are a terrible, incompetent researcher who will still fail even if their feature request is completed
<mchelen2> i can agree if you can theoretically quantify all these things, but that is just so far removed from real world constraints
<tgm4883> The original point I was trying to make was why you shouldn't simply shout "cancer research" to try to persuade people.
<mchelen2> nacc_: im just running on fumes at this point :D
<Mihasi> tgm4883, I wonder what the world would look like if people who have could solve cancer wouldn't have to worry about housing, food etc.
<mchelen2> yeah so imho the issue is not whether to prioritize things that help people, but how do you know what will actually help people?
<Mihasi> mchelen2, sure, but that's a different issue and I'm too tired to deal with two issues at once. :P
<mchelen2> tgm4883: or if the people who develop software wouldn't have to worry about housing, food, etc :D
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I wonder what the world would look like if drug companies could only charge a max of $2 per pill
<tgm4883> Mihasi: Honestly, I think I've given up on anything you say being grounded in reality
<Mihasi> Probably a lot better, provided that that would cover their working costs.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I wonder how all that research would get paid for
<mchelen2> Mihasi: the point i'm trying to get at is it's not really fair to ask devs to take the burden off someone else, when devs also have those real world food/housing/etc pressures
<mchelen2> tgm4883: imho there are lots of ways economic funding can be directed differently, but thats probably a broader discussion
<Mihasi> tgm4883, I'm not sure how to respond to that. On my part, I feel like you're too grounded and are too quick to dismiss any idea that does not conform to the current state of affairs.
<Mihasi> I'm sure the truth, the most skillful view, is somewhere in between our viewpoints, which is exactly why I am discussing. :P
<tgm4883> Mihasi: then we'll have to agree to disagree
<Mihasi> Yes, that is one option. I would prefer if we could meet somewhere in the middle, but I realize that that's not always possible.
<Mihasi> At least not for today. :P
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I don't think that's going to happen. I don't want to live under your dictatorship
<Mihasi> It's unfortunate that you're so inclined to use dismissive language.
<Mihasi> I'm just playing around with ideas, no need to take it too seriously.
<tgm4883> I'm not sure how that's dismissive
<Mihasi> I feel like you're quick to use words like "irrelevant", "pointless", "dictatorship" when describing other people's views or arguments.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: So we're doing the same thing then?
<Mihasi> What exactly?
<tgm4883> Well I'm apparently being dismissive by using words as you described. Your trying to show moral superiority by throwing around cancer research
<Mihasi> I'm trying to show moral superiority?
<Mihasi> And that is the same thing as being dismissive?
<tgm4883> Mihasi: oh you're not?
<tgm4883> I could have sworn that earlier my points were invalid because of cancer research
<Mihasi> Interesting. I can't remember saying or even implying that you're points were invalid.
<Mihasi> In fact, I just answered your question as to "what do you think developers should work if they can choose between these options"?
<tgm4883> Yes, I remember that
<tgm4883> cancer research was always your option
<Mihasi> *your
<Mihasi> Not necessarily, it depended on the rest of the scenario.
<Mihasi> At least until the very end.
<tgm4883> Mihasi: in any case, let me rephrase one of my earlier statements for you
<tgm4883> Mihasi: I don't want to live in your world. I prefer to have options as to what I get to do with my time
<Mihasi> I was still thinking about the scenario in which the business owner has a business that feeds homeless people, but then we got side-tracked.
<tgm4883> it's ok, I understand how your prioritize stuff now
<Mihasi> And that's perfectly fine.
<Mihasi> I wouldn't want to take away your options. I just believe that it would be better if more people would prefer a higher ideal to their own individual interests, especially since in my environment there are too many people that think only of themselves and their interests.
<Mihasi> But it is entirely possible that if I would have it my way, everyone would constantly be thinking about ideals and nothing would ever get done. ^^
<tgm4883> well that isn't what you were implying earlier
<Mihasi> It isn't?
<tgm4883> The developer should always choose the one that helps the most people
<tgm4883> always
<Mihasi> Hmm
<Mihasi> Yeah, in hindsight I can see how that might come across. I should have avoided absolutes.
<tgm4883> yea, I don't want to live in that world
<tgm4883> and as you learned from the examples, there is always another equally heart string pulling cause to contribute your time to
<Mihasi> I wish you would've brought that up earlier, then we might not have had the same discussion.
<tgm4883> I've got all the time in the world
<tgm4883> well not really, I have to go work on some stuff for some cancer research ;P
<Mihasi> lol
<tgm4883> and by that, i mean when I finish cooking this very large bacon burger, I"m going to go watch TV
<OerHeks> researcherslivesmatter \o/
<Mihasi> Awesome. I'm gonna try and get some sleep and try to finish my PhD thesis (not cancer research tough :P)
<Mihasi> See you later!
<OerHeks> :-)
<tgm4883> I like how we pretend we're going to do other things, but in reality we just saw OerHeks show up and now we want to leave :)
<Mihasi> Shhhhh
<tgm4883> oh noes, I've let the cat out of the bag
<Mihasi> Not while he can here you!
<Mihasi> Or she.
<Mihasi> OerHeks, is your nick Dutch?
<OerHeks> go watch your screen tgm4883, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/2016flower-update.JPG
<OerHeks> jups Mihasi
<Mihasi> Then it's a she I guess. :P
<Mihasi> Ugh, I really need to stop procrastinating. Later!
<BluesKaj_> Hiyas all
<mchelen2> OerHeks: those look great! are they gerber daisies?
<OerHeks> mchelen2, we call them straw flowers, they look like gerbers a little, sure
<Bashing-om> Gonna go prune the lawn, be back - later - .
<mchelen2> OerHeks: huh cool
<OerHeks> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/2016-flower-update.JPG
<OerHeks> When they are grown full, hanging the flowers in boiling water for a few seconds,  and drying them upside down, give dried flowers full of colour that can least 2 years or more
<OerHeks> got the seeds for â¬ 0.50 last year, though they should be planted in full ground, they sure drink a lot
<mchelen2> ah yeah, its a lot of plants
<mchelen2> i've been looking at some of the self-watering pots, that basically have a resevoir at the bottom
 * tgm4883 should really learn more about compiling
<daftykins> if it comes up, they're doing it wrong :)
<tgm4883> who's doing it wrong?
<daftykins> if someone asks about compiling in #ubuntu :D
<daftykins> just teasing, really
<tgm4883> oh they aren't
<tgm4883> I'm trying to make a snap package
<tgm4883> I think I've figured out what's wrong, but not sure how to fix it in snapcraft
<tgm4883> and #snappy is a pretty quiet channel currently
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-10
<ducasse> morning, all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> \o - lotuspsychje // Hoz vacation going ? What's up in London ?
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om how r you?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: london was amazing, what a city...
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: has been like 18 years i went to london, has been changed into a big trendy metropol
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: London a tourist trap now ? Are ya back home already ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yeah tourist trap indeed! yeah tomorrow i have to go work again
<Bashing-om> Back to the ole grind ... the familiar routine :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> but i wanna change, and build down working day
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: ^^ And pay rent on the domicle, eat; pay utilities --- and build computers :)
<lotuspsychje> yesss
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. - and not punch someone elses time clock  -
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: thats exactly what i dont need anymore
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I took that step some time back .. I like it that way !
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-04
<Bashing-om> !backports
<ubot5> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> o/ lotuspsychje - Good day for you :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om working day here, tnx
<lotuspsychje> then 3 days off :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Got your replacement all lined out so you can take more time off ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i dont know, my boss text me yesterday with my schedule
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: seems like going afk from the kitchen did a good job..for now
<lotuspsychje> 10 days they couldnt rely on me
<Bashing-om> Hey, you were missed :P
<lotuspsychje> i hope not :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: anything hot to know on support?
<Bashing-om> Naw .. been slow .. not even the trolls are poking about - to slow to keep my interest from sleep :)
<lotuspsychje> allrighty mate, the stars will takeover now
<lotuspsychje> tomorrow everything will be here
<Bashing-om> As the world turns . same place same time next .
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> fine here lordievader, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good
<lordievader> Contemplating a bit if I should buy more ram.
<lordievader> Do you happen to know if one can use ECC ram in non-ECC ram slots?
<lordievader> Guess, I'll just try.
<lordievader> Oh, never mind I though the server had DDR3 ECC ram, it has DDR2 :(
<BluesKaj> lordievader, dunno enough about RAM compatabbilities to answer that ...never really researched it
<BluesKaj> I just buy the same type of DDR as the existing one
<lordievader> Yeah, probably need to buy new. But it would be kind of a waste if I had semi-compatible stuff laying around.
<BluesKaj> true
<BluesKaj> brb
<ducasse> lordievader: afaik you can use non-ecc in ecc-capable slots, but not vice versa. not positive, though - try ##hardware?
<lordievader> The idea is not going to work anyways, I though the unused server had DDR3 in it, after some fact checking it has DDR2.
<lordievader> Going to sell some stuff and see what I can buy for that ;)
<oerheks> oh?
<oerheks> any interesting computerparts?
<lordievader> 16Gb DDR3 sodimm is the most interesting.
<lordievader> For the rest old stuff XD
<oerheks> nice, but sorry, no use for that :-(
<lordievader> oerheks: I can send you a link this evening after I've posted it on Marktplaats.
<oerheks> I should move from mobo pcie 1.4 to pcie 2.0
<oerheks> which means i should build a new pc
<oerheks> lordievader, yes, please do
<oerheks> one never knows how i find a buyer, it happens often
<lotus|artfulbox> hey guys
<lotus|artfulbox> lets update this testbox
<daftykins> :D
<lotus|artfulbox> daftykins, hey mate, been to london and had fudge icecream :p
<daftykins> ooh nice! :D
<daftykins> glad to see you made it out unscathed
<lotus|artfulbox> what a nice city it has become london
<daftykins> my wealthy client bought a flat there so i'll be able to visit again :>
<lotus|artfulbox> daftykins, our guide said some london lofts ask 5000 pounds/ a week rent
<lotus|artfulbox> oO
<daftykins> heh oof
 * lotus|artfulbox looks in his pockets : O
<daftykins> his last place had 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms a lounge and balcony - and was sold for Â£2 million
<lotus|artfulbox> holy smoke
<daftykins> i think the ongoing service charge was about Â£20k a year too
<lotus|artfulbox> the cars driving around, are crazy aswell
<lotus|artfulbox> porshes, mercedes and thousands of those hybrid toyota's
<daftykins> hehe
<oerheks> :-)
<oerheks> And, meet & greet with Mark ??
<daftykins> someone i was at Uni with told me that there's a thing of people with fancy cars leaving clubs just before closing time and then doing laps to show them off to everyone leaving, so sad
<lotus|artfulbox> but some eco appartments give like electric cars & bikes for free too
<lotus|artfulbox> oerheks, mark lives in london?
<oerheks> err, you didn't visit blue fin building??
<lotus|artfulbox> nop lol
<oerheks> That is canonical headQ
<lotus|artfulbox> ohh
<lotus|artfulbox> lotuspsychje@artful-bugbox:~$ uname -a
<lotus|artfulbox> Linux artful-bugbox 4.10.0-22-generic #24-Ubuntu SMP Mon May 22 17:43:20 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<lotus|artfulbox> brb reboot after update
<ducasse> \o lotus|artfulbox :)
<lotus|artfulbox> hey ducasse
<lotus|artfulbox> how are you mate
<ducasse> good, and you?
<lotus|artfulbox> great here
<lotus|artfulbox> ducasse, testing artful
<daftykins> he *is* the artful dodger ;)
<lotus|artfulbox> :p
<lotus|artfulbox> dist-upgrade now
<ducasse> artful sees a lot of action, i frequently see 30-50 updates some days
<daftykins> why now and not before? i only ever run dist-upgrade
<lotus|artfulbox> didnt login to gnome wayland yet
<ducasse> ithm 'i am running dist-upgrade now'
<daftykins> yeah above was a reboot after an update though
<lotus|artfulbox> yeah first sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
<lotus|artfulbox> should have done dist-upgrade right away
<daftykins> yeah :>
<lotus|artfulbox> ducasse, seems like they working hard on it
<ducasse> it might need a lot of tlc, considering how zesty was on release ;)
<lotus|artfulbox> !info linux-image-generic artful
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.10.0.26.28 (artful), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotus|artfulbox> reboot (again)
<ducasse> success! \o/
<lotus|artfulbox> lol
<lotus|artfulbox> it works
<lotus|artfulbox> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-developers-shares-his-thoughts-on-the-unity-to-gnome-shell-transition-516798.shtml
<lotus|artfulbox> switching apps in gnome is anoying you have to keep press activities
<xangua> I just press alt+tab
<lotus|artfulbox> ah thats handy
<xangua> Does super+(number) work in gnome shell?
<lotus|artfulbox> lets c
<lotus|artfulbox> doesnt seem to do something xangua
<lotus|artfulbox> addons are in gnome software
<lotus|artfulbox> and extensions, codecs
<lotus|artfulbox> hey BluesKaj
<immu> lotus|artfulbox, you should look into extensions
<immu> hey BluesKaj
<lotus|artfulbox> immu, i wanna keep it vanilla, so i can follow canonicals new improvements on 17.10
<immu> ok lotus|artfulbox
<lotus|artfulbox> lets see what happens on gnome wayland
<daftykins> *boom*
<daftykins> mushroom cloud reported over Belgium
<oerheks> Why didn't you stop him?
<immu> fotos please
<daftykins> photos
<oerheks> updated every 5 minutes http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?lang=
<oerheks> gnome
<lotus|artfulbox> :p
<oerheks> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/make-gnome-shell-look-feel-like-unity
<daftykins> ../be-an-old-codger-and-fight-change/
<daftykins> :D
<oerheks> Change the button-layout to the following custom value: close,maximize,minimize,maximize,close:
<lotus|artfulbox> lotuspsychje@artful-bugbox:~$ inxi -G
<lotus|artfulbox> Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA C77 [GeForce 9100M G]
<lotus|artfulbox>            Display Server: X.Org 1.19.3 drivers: nouveau (unloaded: modesetting,fbdev,vesa)
<lotus|artfulbox>            Resolution: 1440x900@59.89hz
<lotus|artfulbox>            GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on NVAA GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 17.1.2
<daftykins> hmm not heard of inxi before
<lotus|artfulbox> dont notice much change on different logins
<BluesKaj> hi lotus|artfulbox, immu , was fixing the wifi on the RPI after upgrading to Raspbian Stretch
<lotus|artfulbox> cool
<BluesKaj> had to install theold bcm driver from the jessie repos and mark it on hold so it won't upgrade
<BluesKaj> workarounds ;-)
<immu> ok
<daftykins> heh
<lotus|artfulbox> lets c if it likes nvidia-340 driver
<daftykins> heh not much benefit going too new for such a dinosaur (:
<lotus|artfulbox> its a laptop that came from the graveyard junk lol
<lotus|artfulbox> container garbage park
<lotus|artfulbox> the trowed it away working like this
<lotus|artfulbox> and you know what i do with working hardware, put ubuntu on it!
<lotus|artfulbox> :p
<xangua> Which flavor?
<daftykins> yep where it's still useless ;)
<lotuspsychje_> it doesnt like 340
<lotuspsychje_> and mesa has some heavy glitches
<lotuspsychje_> had to purge nvidia* in recoverymode
<lotuspsychje_> big nvidia logo before login, then black screen
<daftykins> hehe
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje_, iof it's rwally old maybe the 304 XXX legacy driver will work
<BluesKaj> if it's really old, rather
<lotuspsychje_> lotuspsychje@artful-bugbox:~$ inxi -G
<lotuspsychje_> Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA C77 [GeForce 9100M G]
<daftykins> probably better off staying on nouveau for such a museum piece
<lotuspsychje_> lol
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje_> yeah im sticking to it
<immu> hmm
<lotuspsychje_> lets see what new updates will do to the machine on wayland
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje_, yeah, seems the 340 is the driver for your gpu , ...nomodeset perhaps?
<lotuspsychje_> BluesKaj, well it works kinda without the nvidia driver
<daftykins> nowt to be gained :>
<BluesKaj> it's not  museum piece. mine is geforce 210 which uses the same driver ...just entry level specs that's all, and classed as legacy but it works fine
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje_, there's no nvidia support for wayland ...yet
<lotuspsychje_>  Display Server: X.Org 1.19.3 drivers: nouveau (unloaded: modesetting,fbdev,vesa)
<lotuspsychje_> gnome default doesnt goto wyland i think
<lotuspsychje_> i have to logout
<lotuspsychje_> but i dont think its working yet indeed
<lotuspsychje_> time for a glitches bug on xorg
<lotuspsychje_> :p
<daftykins> you can't log out? :D
<lotuspsychje_> daftykins, yeah sure, logout/login doesnt fix the glitches by default
<daftykins> ah no i was thinking you meant you couldn't log out at all
<lotuspsychje_> daftykins, no boot, restart and logins work fine (after purging 340)
<daftykins> ah
<lotuspsychje_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1702347
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1702347 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Graphical glitches in screen by default" [Undecided,New]
<daftykins> oh look down the list sir, you couldn't even load 'nvidia' allegedly
<daftykins> unless that was unrelated, would've thought for you to see the nvidia logo it was there
<lotuspsychje_> logo showedup before login, after installng 340
<daftykins> yeah that was an old default of the nvidia driver
<daftykins> so it kinda suggests the module was there, but your logs show it's missing on two lines o0
<lotuspsychje_> hm
<daftykins> wonder if it's that age-old classic of it building for the wrong kernel version :)
<lotuspsychje_> cant catch the glitches by screenshot
<lotuspsychje_> too fast
<daftykins> video :D
<lotuspsychje_> thats an idea :p
<lotuspsychje_> ubuntu-bug was pretty nice tough
<lotuspsychje_> tnx for testing 17.10..
<daftykins> XD
<lotuspsychje_> laterz guys tv :p
<lotuspsychje_> enough bugging for today
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hi rea
<rea> hi there!
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-06
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj, how are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader, fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<lordievader> Anything happening today on your end?
<BluesKaj> oh not much to do with linux, just some yardwork later
<lordievader> Also important ;)
<BluesKaj> yeah, the neverending tasks :-)
<lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you?
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje> great here, what about yourself lordievader ?
<lordievader> Doing good here too :)
<lordievader> Going to order some ram this evening :D
<lordievader> Way too often that I run into the limit.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: what brand are you getting?
<lotuspsychje> kingston?
<lordievader> https://azerty.nl/product/corsair/508195/vengeance-ddr3-16-gb--2-x-8-gb
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> nice deal lordievader
<lotuspsychje> mobo supports how much?
<lordievader> Bumps it up to 24Gb.
<lordievader> 32Gb max: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/P67SC43.html#hero-specification
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: does your system have ssd too?
<lordievader> Since a week or so, yes.
<lordievader> Had one from a previous laptop left around.
<lordievader> After a while I put it in the server.
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> would rocknroll with new ram :p
<lordievader> Yeah, no worries with ram capping the vm's :D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lordievader> So many things are ram hungry these days.
<lotuspsychje> certainly for power users like you lordievader :P
<lordievader> Perhaps...
<lotuspsychje> i still got 2gig ram in all my boxes here
<lotuspsychje> suits my needs with ssd
<lordievader> 2G O.o
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> How do you live that way?
<lotuspsychje> ssd power
<lordievader> Yes, but open one browser and you are swapping.
<lotuspsychje> i tweaked system a bit
<lotuspsychje> swappiness, preload, FF cache= 0
<lordievader> Could you pastebin your 'sudo sysctl vm' output?
<lotuspsychje> starting up programs etc
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: https://hastebin.com/uqewuwavan.hs
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: bad?
<lordievader> If you notice slow dir listing once the machine is swapping you might consider setting vm.vfs_cache_pressure to 50.
<lordievader> And you may want to reduce the vm.min_free_kbytes setting.
<lotuspsychje> allright
<jim__> hello ?
<Bashing-om> Rainy Thursday here . Good to be irc'n :)
<Bashing-om> Location: Heber Springs, AR ~ Cond: 90Â°F (32Â°C), Haze ~ Atmo: 55%, 6.0 mi (9.7 km), 30.03 in (1017 mb) ~ Wind: 9 mph (14 km/h), W, N/AÂ°F (N/AÂ°C) ~ Time: 15:15
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-07
<Bashing-om> !minimal
<ubot5> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want.  The installer is text based (rather than graphical as used on the Desktop DVD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> All better now . lotuspsychje is here :P
<lotuspsychje> yesss
<Bashing-om> :O)
<lotuspsychje> ja
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<immu> morning
<lordievader> O/
<immu> lordievader hi
<lordievader> Hey immu
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<immu> i am cool waiting for 17.10 to release
<lordievader> That is going to be some time, right? .10 = october
<immu> yup i know
<lordievader> 17.10 is Artful, right?
<immu> yes lordievader
<lordievader> Do you run it already?
<immu> nope
<lordievader> Runs fine here, my desktop at home runs it.
<immu> ok
<immu> yeah its still in development so a moving goal
<nacc> just my opinion -- if a user doesn't know about `cd`, seems unlikely they are going to be able to figure out how to resolve a .crash file
<oerheks> nacc true, but everybody has that folder, even without crashed
<nacc> oerheks: that's what i would have thought
<oerheks> oh that Halleluja dude is back, with kali tools on his ubuntu ..
<oerheks> "Canonical Says Unity 7 Will Still Work in Ubuntu 17.10, But Expect Issues" .. http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-says-unity-7-will-still-work-in-ubuntu-17-10-but-expect-issues-516878.shtml
<immu> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi immu, oerheks, nacc
<oerheks> hi there :-)
<immu> lordievader, hi
<immu> ducasse, hello
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-08
<lordievader> Good morning
<uiduser> hi everyone
<uiduser> ...
<uiduser> ...
<uiduser> nobody chating..
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<immu> hi
<immu> does any know how to stop my microphone-inbuilt levels getting reduced automatically to lower levels
<BluesKaj> immu, it's probly to prevent feedback from your speakers if you have system sounds enabled at startup
<immu> i don't want that to happ
<immu> i want my microphone levels to stick to where i ask it to stick?
<BluesKaj> try increasing your mic level in alsamixer , escape , then sudo alsactl store
<BluesKaj> it may or may not work, depends which OS you're using atm
<immu> i am on ubuntu 17.10
<immu> nothing works like it so good
<BluesKaj> that's what I like about debian, setings aren't hit ot miss or affected by soem other config file
<immu> so you oon debian now?
<BluesKaj> atm yes
<immu> and what about kubuntu?
<BluesKaj> still testing kubuntu 17.10 on another partition tho
<immu> do u have a similar /partition?
<BluesKaj> i'll be switching back to it in a lttle while
<BluesKaj> what do you mean, similar?
<BluesKaj> it's on separate / and /home partitions
<immu> so you have kept a seperate / for debian? and /home
<BluesKaj> yes, always separate / and /home, then you can reinstall to / if your system decomes ubrescuable and just set the moutpoint for you /home in the manual partitioning phase of the installation
<BluesKaj> unrescuable
<immu> pl
<immu> ok
<BluesKaj> that way yousave all your desktop setups and application config files, and even if you have to reinstall some apps, usually non default, the configs a re still there and require little setup if at all
<immu> i have kept my / separate
<immu> this time
<immu> and rest is /home
<immu> what about /boot?
<immu> or its to late
<BluesKaj> I don't have a UEFI system it's bios
<BluesKaj> no need for boot on bios sytems anymore either
<BluesKaj>  /boot
<immu> !uefi
<ubot5> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<immu> i ahev UEFI but set my bios to legacy
<immu> i also have Windows on dual boot
<BluesKaj> yeah I'm dual booting debain and kubuntu
<BluesKaj> debian
<immu> how is debian ?
<BluesKaj> I like it a lot
<immu> how old where you?
<immu> BluesKaj, ?
<immu> you are tempting me with debian
<BluesKaj> how old where you?...what do you mean?
<immu> are you? autocorrect?
<xangua> What old are you?
<immu> ok what is your current age you can remember BluesKaj ?
<xangua> I still hear people saying you need an engineer help to install Debian or something like that
<BluesKaj> xangua, never heard that
<BluesKaj> immu, are you asking me how old I am? That's irrelevant
<xangua> Well people still say you need an "expert" help, that's the point
<BluesKaj> I'm not an expert but there are various ways to install debian including a GUI that gives you step by step guidance similar to the ubuntu s etc
<immu> it helps me deal with a person based on its age
<BluesKaj> immu, you refer to people as "it"
<BluesKaj> ?
<oerheks> 7x7
 * oerheks is 49
 * xangua is 300
<oerheks> marry me, next life!
<xangua> This is Sparta!
<oerheks> Sparta is a famous dutch bicycle brand
<xangua> All my bicycles were brand less... Or at least I don't remember
<BluesKaj> believe it or not I'm almost 74 yrs old
<xangua> My grandma is 92
<xangua> She can use a smartphone to make calls
<BluesKaj> nice, does she use linux ? :-)
<xangua> Well not GNU/Linux
<immu> bless be you both
<immu> it refer to the subject not object
<uiduser> ...
<BluesKaj> well. prbly android
<BluesKaj> people ar ehe or she , not it
<immu> oerheks, are you she?
<uiduser> hello everyone
<immu> i am he / 37 years old :)
<oerheks> immu, yes, lots op people think i am .. wonder why
<uiduser> what is mail list?
 * oerheks crinkles curly hair
<immu> in certain cases it can be used to refer people :) BluesKaj
<immu> how old are you oerheks
<oerheks> uiduser, mail list? where do you read that?
<uiduser> someone in forums tells me i can post message to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<oerheks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<immu> google mail list ubuntu
<oerheks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev ?
<uiduser> wait a second
<uiduser> http://lists.ubuntu.com/
<uiduser> i have no idea what this public mail list mean
<oerheks> well, that is the whole list of possible groups you can mail, development is a huge list, choose one you think your subject belongs to
<immu> you can read, send, reply, participate etc uiduser
<uiduser> so it just a normal email address?
<uiduser> i thought it is something different before... XD
<oerheks> uiduser,  choose ( click) one from https://lists.ubuntu.com/ and you can subscribe on the mailinglist
<uiduser> if i subscribe  and leave my email to it, then i can receive some emails they broadcast?
<oerheks> uiduser, jups, and depending on the list, it can be many :-D
<uiduser> what jups mean...
<uiduser> english is my second language
<oerheks> jups/yes
<uiduser> oh i see
<uiduser> thank you very much
<xangua> I remember my mother taught me English and then she forgot... Weird
<immu> ok
<immu> bless be our elders, moms and pops everywhere
<uiduser> yeah
<immu> uiduser, as long you can articulate what you mean i am cool
<uiduser> im trying to tell ubuntu developer
<uiduser> if they can add a checkbox which can turn off guest session in system preference
<immu> uiduser, you want to remove guest access?
<uiduser> all right, thanks
<immu> ?eh?
<uiduser> >> uiduser, as long you can articulate what you mean i am cool
<uiduser> thanks for your encourage
<uiduser> i know how to achieve that, by modifying a conf file
<immu> cmd is also their
<uiduser> but considering many ordinary users don't know that, it would be nice if there are a checkbox in user interface
<immu> which ver of ubuntu are you using
<uiduser> 16.04
<immu> LTS
<uiduser> yeah
<immu> many people for some reason love LTS releases, but i cannot bear to run a LTS release
<uiduser> you always like to taste something new?
<immu> its something, always want shiny and new in linux
<BluesKaj> LTS are good on production machines where the system requires stability and security
<immu> yeah
<immu> but Ubuntu is 6 months release so shouldn't be a issue
<uiduser> yeah, im a designer and i need exactly something stable. don't want be bothered  to  fix computer
<immu> good then as long you are happy :) mine is not production just easy sailing
<uiduser> immu: so are you using Gnome now?
<immu> yes i am on 17.10 daily builds and will move onto final release on Oct :)
<uiduser> that's cool
<immu> uiduser, I am using minimum extensions
<immu> i had a hard time expecting the change from ubuntu to unity :)
<immu> felt very sad and withdrawl syptoms
<immu> then when on a distro hopping spreee ask BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> you mean unity to gnome
<BluesKaj> they are both ubuntu DEs
<immu> yup
<immu> sorry unity to gnome
<uiduser> i like glass effects... gnome don't have that. and i can't get used to it's lunchmenu
<uiduser> so am i
<uiduser> i think gnome is suitable to touchscreen and mobile devices
<immu> glass effects
<uiduser> unity and win7 both have that
<immu> you can use extension to bring the extension dock outsideand place it anywhere you want
<immu> i keep it at bottom
<uiduser> it may consume a little more battery but looks really good.
<uiduser> im ok about the position, its nice to dock it to the left
<immu> mine is always plugged in
<immu> https://liquorix.net/#features
<immu> !liquorix
<BluesKaj> I still prefer kde/plasma ...never cared for gnome, gnome shell, lxde, unity etc etc
<uiduser> haha
<immu> yes if you want KDE use Opensuse or Kubuntu or KDE neon
<immu> but i find best implemntation of kde on Opensuse
<uiduser> first time to hear liquorix...
<immu> its a drop in kernel replacement it helps you scratch the ich for newer kernels
<immu> safe and stable. and its built just like ubuntu does
<uiduser> i will take a time to look at it later.
<uiduser> sound nice
<uiduser> sounds nice
<BluesKaj> bah opensuse... kde is so flexible, it's setings go way beyond the OS youre using. One OS doesn't do kde better than any other that I've experienced
<uiduser> umm, which countries are you guys come from? if you would like to say that.
<uiduser> i come from china
<BluesKaj> uiduser, you first :-)
<uiduser> sichuan province.
<BluesKaj> Canada here
<BluesKaj> Ontario
<uiduser> wow,go halfway around the globe
<uiduser> amazing internet.
<BluesKaj> yes it is
<uiduser> im a student majoring urban planning
<uiduser>  (you don't have to say that if you dont want to)
<immu> UAE/AE , but Indian
<uiduser> (just self introduce)
<uiduser> cool
<BluesKaj>  /me was born in Finland to Swedish parents and emigrated to Canada when I was just little
<uiduser> XD
<BluesKaj> right after WW2
<uiduser> wow
<immu> double wow
<uiduser> im going to sleep now, its 0 clock here.
<uiduser> see you guys
<DArqueBishop> UNIX folks tend to be old fogies.
<immu> :)
<immu> nice to see the channel so alive with conversations
<lordievader> Now that my desktop commited suicide it is time to try out for neon :)
<BluesKaj> not  unix guy , linux became my hobby after retirement, I did use unix application programs in the 80s, but then we switched to dos , then W3.1 and W95 after that. I started with linux about 15 yrs ago, off and on til I finally adopted it full time in 2005
<lordievader> Something probably went wrong with the conversion to raid 0
 * DArqueBishop is an old rogue.
<DArqueBishop> Not as old as BluesKaj, but old. :-)
<DArqueBishop> s/rogue/fogie/
<BluesKaj> lordievader, neon will help your desktop commit suicede more quickly :-)
<immu> how come BluesKaj lordievader
<lordievader> Last time I checked it it was quite stable.
<BluesKaj> lordievader, I hope so because my experience with wasn't
<immu> you mean Neon KDE you mean BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> with it wasn't
<BluesKaj> Neon uses KDE immu
<immu> yeah i know KDE BluesKaj
<immu> since i found it to be using LTS release i didn't touch it
<BluesKaj> kde is available on all'buntu releases, not just LTS
<BluesKaj> I use kde/plasma on 17.10
<BluesKaj> aka kubuntu
<immu> yeah
<immu> brb
<immu> wife shopping
<brunch> hayo GUIs
<immu> lback
<immu> back
<immu> back again :)
<immu> dinner time
<Bashing-om> SlOw Saturday .. All over .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-09
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<immu> BluesKaj, ducasse EriC^^ lordievader oerheks hi all
<Bashing-om> Sunday support . see what is and what may be :) fun ?
<oerheks> yeah, i got the 1st sunday-troll Bashing-om
<daftykins> ooh an honour!
<oerheks> yay, my karma is still 0 ~ https://launchpad.net/~oerheks
<Bashing-om> Well, bad as it is .. even trolls give something to attend attention to :(
<oerheks> sudo apt install soul
<Bashing-om> oerheks: my karma is rapidly on the decline : https://launchpad.net/~bashing-om . If ya do not use it ya loose it !
<daftykins> aww i tried putting my nick in to see what i have
<daftykins> didn't load, must not have the username as a page or something
<oerheks> your launchpad account..
<daftykins> yeah i was sure it was this nick
<oerheks> https://launchpad.net/~dbonham-gmail
<daftykins> ah yeah i thought it had my email in :>
<oerheks> oerheks@ubuntu.com
<oerheks> :-D
<daftykins> i was a bit annoyed, not sure if i can mask that
<oerheks> Do you get unusual spam?
<daftykins> mmm nope nothing out of the ordinary, apart from all those americans that have the same surname but different first name (that still begins with 'd')
<daftykins> ...and sign me up to all kinds of weird things
<oerheks> oh oke, the things i sended you, you like?
<daftykins> XD
<oerheks> maybe that ron-dude has some experience ( i have seen him before) but disabling security & recommended updates is a silly move, that can lead to misformed package dependencies.
<oerheks> i say, he hit a bug in ubuntu
<oerheks> *as you should have the option to disable them
<daftykins> https://pastebin.com/FY4vw5mj - interesting that the good ol' wildcard failed to evaluate to all packages beginning "kodi"
<daftykins> this is on a zesty machine
<daftykins> (apparently)
<daftykins> oh i had a prompt for reboots again
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Looks as if "someone" manually deleted the kodi_crashlog files . Hummmm .
<daftykins> well it's weird it was evaluating to files and not package names
<Bashing-om> daftykins: All I can surmise at this point is that something in the post removal scripts are calling for the crash files . /var/lib/dpkg/info/<package_name>.postrm ??
<daftykins> hrmm
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-02
<Bashing-om> TJ-: A red headed stranger ? Missed ya :P
<daftykins> :O
<TJ-> G'morning! How's everyone doing?
<daftykins> all well here thanks :) how's your neck of the woods?
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Going well here .. Did you get your 2nd hay cutting in ?
<TJ-> We're sweltering in the heat like most people here; only got 1 crop of hay so far; started irrigating potatoes this week.
<TJ-> I popped in to see if there's any channels on Freenode for visually impaired users, but it doesn't seem there is
<TJ-> ubuntu-accessibility seems essentially empty too
<daftykins> the alis bot could be of use?
<daftykins> for channel finding
<TJ-> That was my first port of call
<Bashing-om> TJ-: No not know about accessibilities .. see what alis has to say about ' braille ' ?
<TJ-> "End of Output" :p
<Bashing-om> Yuk
<daftykins> blows my mind sometimes when folks come in #kodi saying they're blind and have an issue, i just never imagine someone partially sighted even using such a visual program
<TJ-> I'm volunteering for a local visual impairment charity, and developing a plan for using online services to help participation in an extremely wide-spread rural area. Part of that is finding a stable host for a couple of IRC channels instead of operating our own IRC server, so the service-users can easily expand into other communities
<daftykins> is IRC really the right choice?
<daftykins> not that i think too highly of all the many modern services that hang around, given how often messaging platforms rise and fall :)
<TJ-> It's the only choice; works perfectly with text-to-speech software
<hggdh> daftykins: I think not really bad, since it is basically text-mode (as opposed to graphical)
<daftykins> right but a lot of the modern ones are the same
<TJ-> No inline images that blind users would miss
<daftykins> so were you gonna go to the freenode folks?
<TJ-> It's perfect for generally tech-phobic users too; wrap it with an accessible web client (there are many) keyed to the community channel so the user doesn't need to understand IRC to get started.
<daftykins> yeah that's only true given that part :D i still remember being new and wondering why there were servers
<TJ-> Well, part of the plan is to develop a custom set of integrated F/OSS services accessed via a web-site for media (mostly audio) submission and editing, chat, document sharing and more ( for service-users, volunteers, and staff) so #project-devel and #project channels
<daftykins> i think you just hate free time ;D
<TJ-> What's that when it's at home? :)
<Bashing-om> TJ-'s A-farm'n - there is no such thing as "free-time" . One never does enough ... and the more you do the more there is then to do .
<TJ-> So true!
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks - how about yourself?
<lordievader> Doing okay. Was annoyed this morning when I found out that the default Ubuntu server image doesn't support lvm/raid.
<lordievader> You need the alternate image for that appearantly.
<ducasse> yes, the new installer isn't very flexible yet aiui
 * lordievader wonders how many server installs do not make use of some kind of raid.
<EriC^^> hey lordievader
<daftykins> i run mines OS disks without RAID :)
<lordievader> daftykins: How than? And why?
<daftykins> the RAIDs on the storage, i don't want the OS anywhere near it
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<daftykins> good morning \o all well?
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins, fine here, and you?
<daftykins> yep not too bad thanks! seems to be a warm one again
<BluesKaj> yup, forecasting 30C and 90% humidity here
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<daftykins> \o
<BluesKaj> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB :)
<lotuspsychje> ty Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Thus far ... Good day in our neighborhood .
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows a tool that can kernel cleanup GUI besides bleachbit?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: ' autoremove ' fails to function ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: well long story short, my customers dont use the terminal
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: and they seem to avoid updating too lol
<lotuspsychje> so unattended-upgrades are enabled, but im still looking for older kernels auto cleanup
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Ho kay :) .. no, I am not aware of an alternate GUI tool for bleachbit.
<daftykins> bit embarassing if Ubuntu still hasn't sorted that out
<lotuspsychje> would be nice in software&updates tick an option: remove older kernels
<nacc> daftykins: so far, i've still only seen cases where users have either manually installed a package, or simply never run autoremove
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, the problem is autoremove is not kernel specific
<nacc> i guess they could do `sudo apt-get autoremove linux-*
<lotuspsychje> yeah but as i mentioned nacc my users are GUI mostly
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah
<lotuspsychje> terminal,what?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: might be a nice feature to add to update-manager
<nacc> should be relatively easy to do i think
<lotuspsychje> nacc: you think i could bug/wishlist it?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: seems worthwhile in the ubuntu bug tracker at least
<daftykins> if you can catch TJ i'm pretty sure he wrote a script for this, you could probably cron it on client systems
<lotuspsychje> its an idea yeah daftykins
<lotuspsychje> but love the idea of having this as a feature too
<nacc> i think TJ's script is mostly useful when autoremove doesn't work
<nacc> as in the user has already hosed their system, it does some manual rm and then does the n ormal dpkg/apt dance
<daftykins> yeah i think it handles the edge case of when they're out of space and can't use APT, too
<lotuspsychje> lets say the feature would purge last 2 'older' kernels every time
<nacc> right, that's the manual rm part
<daftykins> it's a very messy sitution becuse if you count backwards from a newly installing version, you want #1 to stay since it was working last, then #2 and #3 could go - *but* if the user is an update avoider, they may never have restarted to boot into #1
<daftykins> blech :D
<nacc> right, i believe one of the various tools figures that out
<nacc> you always want to keep `uname -r`'s version
<nacc> you also want to keep the 'two newest'
<nacc> so take the intersection
<daftykins> i was going to contact digitalocean and ask if they recommend livepatch being used with their VPSs o0
<nacc> (full disclosure, i work for DO :)
<daftykins> :o i feel like this is the first time i am hearing that, cool :D
<nacc> daftykins: i changed a few months ago from canonical
<daftykins> always been very impressed with the support i get
<daftykins> ah neat :D
<lotuspsychje> ill file a wishlist for it, who knows then
<nacc> (I don't know the answer to your question, i'm on the systems (KVM) performance)
<nacc> daftykins: i mean, livepatch has a limited # (3?)
<daftykins> yeah
<nacc> so doesn't seem particularly great for droplets
<nacc> but it depens on how much you use it
<daftykins> i saw the support rates for more, it is ouch
<nacc> yeah
<daftykins> right now i have 0 instances :D fine with update + reboot really
<lotuspsychje> wich package should i file it, update-manager, unattended-upgrades or software&sources?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: if it's specifically the gui side, update-manager
<nacc> iirc
<lotuspsychje> allrighty tnx
<daftykins> now we play the waiting game :)
<lotuspsychje> or find interested bug users :p
<lotuspsychje> if we lucky next decade its a feature :p
<daftykins> xD
<lotuspsychje> now nacc is gone from canonical...
<lotuspsychje> someone else will have to work harder
<lotuspsychje> hows this looking? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1779723
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779723 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[Wishlist] Add a GUI option autoremove kernel cleanup on updates" [Undecided,New]
<oerheks> no ff61, but surprise; a fresh kernel
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: lol
<lotuspsychje> isitoutyet
<lordievader> Solution: educate users?
<nacc> uh... 41.6gb zip file?? must be pirated stuff, right?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: lets face reality, even windows is hard for them..next step the terminal?
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: could you wishlist bug #1779723 for me again plz?
<ubot5> bug 1779723 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[Wishlist] Add a GUI option autoremove kernel cleanup on updates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779723
<nacc> i can do it too, one sec
<lotuspsychje> oh tnx nacc
<lordievader> I don't think they are going to use Linux if they find Windows hard.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: thats bit judging statement, got a lot of users running ubuntu like a charm
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: done
<lotuspsychje> ty hggdh ; )
<hggdh> yw
<lotuspsychje> u2 nacc
<nacc> np
<lotuspsychje> anyone read some news on .1 yet?
<lordievader> I'm sure it is, but it is the way I think about it ð
<lotuspsychje> no early releasenotes somewhere?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: they'd go on the normal bionic page
<nacc> iirc
<lotuspsychje> i respect your opinion lordievader, but my 80y old aunt is on ubuntu, she cant scramble system anymore where she was able on windows
<lordievader> Fair enough.
<leftyfb> lordievader: I can attest to my mother, 10yo sister and multiple residential customers of mine(2 of which in their 80's) all running Ubuntu without issue and found it better/easier than windows.
<daftykins> do they all solely start the browser and then that's all they need? :)
<oerheks> i miss the times, hitting update and come back an hour later
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: ive setup shotwell for my aunt also, the moment she branches camera, pics get synced auto to nautilus and she understands it too
<leftyfb> daftykins: to be honest, most of them have actually either gone to a chromebook or no pc at all.
<daftykins> syncing photos is a very old usage model i find
<lotuspsychje> lol oerheks when i worked at mediamarket, launched 5 win laptops updates, and it was only next morning
<daftykins> evidence: 70 year old client asking me to do it for them the other day
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> at year of the linux desktop, everything should be also GUI done
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Do you mean something like this in your bug report: https://github.com/teejee2008/ukuu
<lotuspsychje> lets see
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: that's why it shall never be!
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: nice find
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: but i was more looking for like deleting the last 2 'oldest' instead of auto installing latest ones
<lotuspsychje> normal updates already grabbin newest kernels right
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: i also dont wanna risk users deleting newest kernel so they cant get in anymore lol
<lotuspsychje> want a clean sandbox for them
<lordievader> This one pulls them from the mainline ppa too, I think.
<lordievader> Anyhow, it is up on github. You can add the functionality ð
<lotuspsychje> tnx for looking lordievader
<lordievader> No problem.
<daftykins> how come everyone's impatient for firefox 61 anyway? :) just looked at the changelog and don't see too much to rush for
<lotuspsychje> i always remember this user in #ubuntu he got his system updating to all lts's never autoremoved..
<lotuspsychje> got like 40 kernels in his list
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: it has quick tab switch so i hear...something to look forward too?
<lotuspsychje> i guess we could test the snap :p firefox  61.0-3  mozilla
<daftykins> dunno how you can get much quicker than ctrl+shift+tab / ctrl+tab :D
<daftykins> or even ctrl+n!
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: think its preloading stuff
<lordievader> daftykins: No idea, I use Chrome ð
<daftykins> i use both but updates come quick to Windows (:
 * oerheks wait for the crosspost in ##linux
<daftykins> o0
<leftyfb> pretty sure we've got a troll that keeps coming back with different nicks/hosts
<hggdh> and the same host
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Zsfb5fxvjn/
<leftyfb> it is the same host
<leftyfb> god damn idiot that one
<nacc> if i was mad at you and reading what you wrote, i would argue with you too
<nacc> tbf to both of you
<Bashing-om> And ... in other news .. UWN534 is out :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue534 .
 * Allie` has an x201 now, running ubuntu MATE
<Allie`> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> WB lotuspsychje ,, been brisk in main for a change .
<lotuspsychje> neat Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> users are sniffing new point release lol
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Interest in new installs on bizar hardware has certainly increased :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: alot of specific techy stuff has reached us for sure
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i also feel very low bionic graphics problems these days..
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<daftykins> \o/
<lordievader> Hey daftykins
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<daftykins> not bad at all thanks! not much sleep though, too many thoughts swishing around about work plans :>
<daftykins> how are things with yourself?
<ducasse> morning, lordievader
<ducasse> enjoying your morning?
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<lordievader> Slowly configuring an old host as a secondary hypervisor
<daftykins> ah nice, which technology?
<lordievader> Ha, you dont want to know ð
<lordievader> An overclocked C2D.
<daftykins> sorry i meant the virt tech in use
<JimBuntu> "fail for linux" + "What's logging" = Same person X-D
<lordievader> daftykins: Oh, just libvirt/qemu.
<lordievader> Nothing fancy for failover or anything. Just some more resources for non-essential vm's.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<blackflow> o/
<lotuspsychje> hey blackflow
<lotuspsychje> just needed to fix a gdm issue on 18.04 on my desktop
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: you mean to get it boot faster?
<lotuspsychje> systemd stuck at gnome display manager ppp link was shut
<lotuspsychje> no couldnt get in anymore
<lotuspsychje> purge gdm gdm3 and reinstall gdm3 and ubuntu-desktop fixxed it
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: got 2 new wishlists going for bionic
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1776742
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1776742 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[Wishlist] Add a GUI systemd service manager by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<blackflow> was gdm package dropped?
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1779723
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779723 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[Wishlist] Add a GUI option autoremove kernel cleanup on updates" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: not sure what caused this..
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<leftyfb> lotuspsychje: Marvel = Bugzie
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: oh jeez
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader BluesKaj
<lordievader> ð
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.130.136 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.24.26 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info ibus-m17n bionic
<ubot5> ibus-m17n (source: ibus-m17n): m17n engine for IBus. In component main, is optional. Version 1.3.4-5 (bionic), package size 25 kB, installed size 188 kB
<lotuspsychje> welcome rush
<rush> thanks lol
<rush> i wil ask same question in here
<rush> im on ubuntu 18
<rush> how can this ubuntu be so fast?  i have a full instalation on USB only, yet it runs very well.  just impressive.  boots as fast as, or faster than linux puppy lol  go figure
<rush> is that normal ir did i just get lucky somehow ?
<lotuspsychje> how many ram do you have rush
<rush> 8 gb
<rush> i5
<rush> lenovo x230
<lotuspsychje> rush: ssd or mechanical hd?
<rush> hdd.. but running ubuntu from a 64 gb micro sd card in a usb stick only!
<leftyfb> why not run it natively?
<rush> i was normally relying on windows
<rush> but to be honest yes.. i think its an option now
<lotuspsychje> rush: i5 and 8g goes a fast way
<rush> i was hving problems using linux for all my needs on this laptop... but this new ubuntu seems to be doing a great job
<lotuspsychje> rush: but as leftyfb suggest i would also go for physical install
<rush> it literally seems as fast a a linux puppy usb
<rush> well.. the usb is so fast , i hardly need one?
<lotuspsychje> rush: usb bottlenecks your speed
<rush> and igf i get stuck, i can use windows on the hdd here
<rush> hmm
<nacc> leftyfb: uh, what? loopback named eth0?
<rush> i have a windows 7 usb,  thats much slower than ubuntu usb
<rush> i do have a 'spare' ssd laying about
<rush> i might consider ubuntu ssd instal lin this computer
<lotuspsychje> rush: then i would suggest plugin your ssd and install ubuntu clean on it
<rush> should run great
<lotuspsychje> rush: sata speed will get you more then usb
<rush> problem is.. it takes a while to configure lol... and i forget some of the tips i was given
<rush> also, id like a dua lboot.. just in case i get stuck an dneed windows
<rush> but windwos 10 seems very brutish with boot up menu thse days
<rush> hard to dual boot with it
<lotuspsychje> i dont like dualboots myself, but just my opinion
<rush> if i was sure i wouldnt need windows.. id go for single boot
<rush> maybe in a while when i feel mor econfident i'll go for it
<lotuspsychje> rush: you could also try virtualbox with w10 afterwards
<rush> ge tsoem goods use out of my ssd too
<rush> hmm
<rush> yuea.. this laptop is not for gaming. so vb would probably be enough
<lotuspsychje> rush: you can then, run windows from the virtualbox
<leftyfb> nacc: yeah, he was messing with renaming his interfaces with .network  system files .. did it wrong of course
<nacc> leftyfb: yuck
<leftyfb> yep
<leftyfb> i've learned how to deal with the new naming, it's not difficult
<rush> i actually cloned this usb ubuntu to my ssd with acronis on windows, and put it i nhere.. it does boot up.. but for some reason the boot up is really slow. fine once it gets going though
<leftyfb> though I'm still not keen on netplan
<nacc> and it's useful when you care about it
<rush> reason i cloned is cos id hate to loose all my tweaks and setting ive put in here
<leftyfb> rush: it's good practice to do it all from scratch again
<rush> i suppose
<lotuspsychje> rush: i usaully install ubuntu in 30min
<rush> lol
<rush> the tweak cna take me literally days or weeks
<lotuspsychje> rush: sudo apt install rar vlc photoprint preload...etc
<rush> as i have to seek help
<blackflow> leftyfb: my only problem with it is interfaces changing name when you make a hardware change that's not related to networking, eg gpu pulled out or added in.
<rush> apart from the learnign curve and trouble shooting.. im well impressed with ubuntu on this lenovo x230
<rush> just a super combo
<lotuspsychje> rush: glad you like it
<lotuspsychje> rush: can you define fast boot?
<rush> i like the aesthetic too
<nacc> blackflow: that's presumably due to probing order changing?
<rush> define how?
<lotuspsychje> rush: time, seconds,minutes
<rush> usb boot takes unde a minute i think
<rush> hmm
<rush> maybe 45 seconds
<rush> 30,. perhaps
<blackflow> nacc: possibly, there's an issue open on systemd's github
<rush> fast for usb
<lotuspsychje> rush: yeah, it will rcoket on the ssd then
<nacc> blackflow: i know some backplane are really weird about it
<leftyfb> blackflow: I've never experienced that
<rush> i think these old gen lenovos are a steal..  over a thousand $ whe nthey came out.. but can get the 2012 - 13 models for maybe $150   with i5 and decent quality.  made for linux lol
<blackflow> nacc: though it's not often one changes hardware. just something to keep in mind when you work remotely
<nacc> blackflow: absolutely
<leftyfb> mmmm BMC's
<nacc> blackflow: also, the MAC shouldn't have changed
<nacc> tbh, that change just proved how bad so many sysadmins were :)
<leftyfb> "but I always assume eth0!"
<nacc> heh
<leftyfb> "it's hardcoded in all my things!"
<blackflow> nacc: sure, some .link magick can help pin that down
<rush> youve got me tempted.. i'll consider my option.. what i might 'miss' without win 10 on here, then i might get this on ssd
<nacc> blackflow: yep, exactly
<rush> just hope its easy to clone in case of failure
<leftyfb> rush: dual boot until you realize you haven't booted into Windows in a year and then reclaim the space for Ubuntu
<leftyfb> rush: make a backup of your files on Ubuntu. And keep a list of applications you've installed. Rebuilding from scratch it fairly easy from then
<blackflow> ^^^
<rush> i need windows for my main gaming laptop.  but apart from a fwe photo editing an dvideo softwares, i dont think i miss windows for muc helse.  though it does have masses of software choices
<leftyfb> rush: over time you learn of all the stuff you "customized" which you never used and start to weed out of your build list
<rush> yea, justa few programes not avialabe in software center wer etricky to install.  plus tweaking the desktop was a bit fdiddly too
<rush> removing the top bar for example
<rush> take up too much real estate
<leftyfb> rush: which programs?
<rush> and removing the title bar from the windows and browsers
<rush> qtox secure mesenger for one
<rush> i talked to the dev, i helped him fin a bug
<leftyfb> ugh
<rush> so hpopefully the next verions will be easiet to install
<leftyfb> 2nd time in my life hearing someone wanting qtox
<rush> well.  afew years back i trieed linux.. the skype bac kthe nwas soo bad. like 1990's software
<rush> i hear dabout tox and tried it instead
<leftyfb> rush: and yes, the dev forgot to mention installing autoconf
<rush> now i have a few contacts on there so i need it installed
<rush> dunno.. he said the install was bugged anyway
<rush> but he gave me a few lines of code that sorted it out
<rush> i just dumbly coppied and pasted
<rush> that swhy i cant replicate it myself lol
<rush> anyway.. all that said. it probly wouldnt take that long to get it all confirgured again... ssd instal ltempting
<rush> anyway.. i wont hog your chat
<rush> thanks for the tips
<rush> am i connected ?
<daftykins> yep
<rush> cool lol
<rush> its was becoming  a monologue
 * daftykins has seen far worse
<lotuspsychje> lol
<rush> does ubuntu remain stable for long?
<rush> i mean.. afte ra few months, its often a godo idea to reinstal lwindows
<rush> how about linux ?
<rush> sorry, bad typing... thse laptops have prety much the best keypboars u can get, but ther eis no hope for me
<lotuspsychje> lts | rush
<Tegu> I haven't felt the need to reinstall neither windows nor ubuntu after a few months
<rush> its gets slow sometimes
<daftykins> not been true about Windows since XP :)
<Tegu> but yea, check LTS indeed and compare it to the life cycle of non-LTS releases
<rush> or a tleast used to on windows.. maybe 10 is better though
<rush> hmm
<rush> whats lts?
<daftykins> !lts
<ubot5> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions are supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Bionic (Bionic Beaver 18.04). Ubuntu !flavors may have different support durations, check their release notes for information.
<rush> i see
<rush> make or break tiem for england..  facing columbia any minute now
<rush> by the way.. would you recommend using 'wine'  for running windows programs, not games.   or better to just is virtual box?
<rush> photo editing peograms etc
<oerheks_> never!
<oerheks_> wine should die
<oerheks_> :-D
<daftykins> either commit fully or dualboot
<rush> lol
<blackflow> oerheks_: shush!
<daftykins> buuuut dualboot is messy since you will always end up neglecting one OS over the other
<blackflow> or! or! gpu passthrough qemu-kvm!   (virtualbox is a toy)
<daftykins> i am the black sheep of the channel as i only run Linux servers :)
<daftykins> meh, relies on VT-io and so forth :>
<oerheks_> explore the beautifull linux programs like darktable, then you would drop wine forever
<rush> sorrry.. football time .. bbl
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> choose football over ubuntu now?
<lotuspsychje> !hwe
<ubot5> The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<daftykins> xD
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1779723
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779723 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[Wishlist] Add a GUI option autoremove kernel cleanup on updates" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<lotuspsychje> seems like its a work in progress already
<lotuspsychje> morning hggdh
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: agood afternoon
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: can you heat yourself a bit on your area :p
<nacc> does this user just not understand networking? why are they using VMs at all
<oerheks> yes, i wonder, existing vbox vm, and now changing with netplan
<blackflow> oerheks: wants to switch from dhcp to static
<oerheks> the host has set it already, or could
<oerheks> it is always good to show the guide at the end
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> let us guess, sweat and think hard
<blackflow> they showed it earlier and I already asked earlier if they used those numbers but didn't get the response :)
<oerheks> oh, i missed that :-(
<tomreyn> this wasnt the first tme, was it :) <zmugg> randolf, are you here man?
<oerheks> iirc so yes
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-04
<hggdh> I have a problem with opendns
<oerheks> What? does it allow dangerous sites?
<hggdh> I think so
<tomreyn> pick one of the others then, there's no shortage lately
<oerheks> could well be, that we hear in hours that opendns was vulnerable
<oerheks> gamblore, now hggdh
<oerheks> one might as well open a ##opendns channel, to spot
<tomreyn> https://quad9.com https://1.1.1.1/ https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/
<tomreyn> but i'm not sure i'm getting the issue properly
<oerheks> 'vulnerable sites'... maybe the browser says so
<tomreyn> google safebrowsing might
<oerheks> "You have until July to Install SSL or Google will mark your site âNot Secureâ
<oerheks> ah
<tomreyn> TLS 1.1+ rather
<oerheks> http sites like some of canonical, http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ will be blocked
<oerheks> TLS 1.3 .. that is key feature in FF 61
<tomreyn> maybe why its impossible to build it ;)
<oerheks> also because of 32 bit, i read back?
<oerheks> and translations
<tomreyn> probbaly rathe rthose, i would guess tls 1.3 will be smooth.
 * oerheks hits update icon
<oerheks> you have 17.10 .. yeah yeah
<oerheks> laptop is 18.04
<tomreyn> hmm, sounds unhealthy
<oerheks> i am not a laptop person, actually
<oerheks> and i have those handy bags for doorstopper
<tomreyn> bags for door stoppers instead of laptops?
<oerheks> yes, bags with sand, like this https://cdn.agradiservices.net/products/1200x1200/es-lh118.79e706.jpg
<oerheks> also silica, but different
<oerheks> .. or an aspire 5738g
<tomreyn> :))
<tomreyn> just smash the door, problem solved
<oerheks> my chihuahua would love that
<oerheks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3wr0nahq2ibuvi/DrabberEnIkOpPaard.JPG?dl=0
<tomreyn> is it a bit angry at times? or does it just like the open door policy?
<oerheks> he likes to greet people, nosy little raskal
<oerheks> and yes, if you are impressed by his bark, then you have no life :-D
<oerheks> but he does it friendly, attention seeker, like his master
<hggdh> oerheks: yes, I was referring to gambalore (or whatever is the nick)
<oerheks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> cool, update-manager is deleting unused kernels
<lotuspsychje> https://imgur.com/a/YRJY5pE
<lotuspsychje> updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1779723
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779723 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[Wishlist] Add a GUI option autoremove kernel cleanup on updates" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^ , how are you?
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all good here, thanks. and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here ð
<ducasse> good, all is well with the world ;)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<daftykins> hey BluesKaj \o
<daftykins> do anything special for Canada day? :)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning daftykins, yeah we had a get together and jammed off and on all day and well into the evening...it was a good time ;-)
<daftykins> :D sounds good
<BluesKaj> yeah, takes me 2 days to recover and this heat isn't helping any. my old a/c unit has a difficult time keeping up, but it sure helps nontheless
<daftykins> had quite some warmth here, but we're not really a region for having AC in homes
<daftykins> thankfully all that property work i had done last year has vastly improved the deflection of the heat out of my roof - and the 17th century granite walls at ground level work nicely to keep at least the ground floor cool :D
 * BluesKaj nods ...nice
<daftykins> great fun with learning to be compliant with necessary regulations for my clients with card machines today, oof :P
<BluesKaj> card machines? .....
<BluesKaj> oh you mean readers
<BluesKaj> credit and debit card readers?
<coconut> Any apple magic mouse 2 like mouse which is guaranteed to work with ubuntu?
<lordievader> daftykins: Those things are quite strict, right?
<coconut> I ask because a screwed an magic mouse under elemetaryOS. (and i like the comfort of an flat mouse)
<daftykins> BluesKaj: yep
<daftykins> lordievader: yeah it looks like i'm going to have to buy a router with multiple interfaces so the card machine can be totally segmented from their office LAN
<daftykins> which amusingly is exactly what i thought on the first day i saw they'd gotten one - but i was never consulted on it :)
<BluesKaj> heh, at first iwas imaging those ancient unix machines i saw at the local U in 1970 :-)
<lordievader> Ah, the classic case of 'I could have told you so' ð
<daftykins> indeed :)
<daftykins> BluesKaj: :D before my time, the old punch card
<BluesKaj> yup
<BluesKaj> I MUST be getting old ...sheesh
<mystic> Hi
<BluesKaj> hi mystic
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj can you heat yourself?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, ?
<lotuspsychje> summer heat
<BluesKaj> yeah it's going up to 33C here today ... got the a/c on already to give it a head start :-)
<lotuspsychje> 28c here today, we went for few hours swim BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> nice\
<lotuspsychje> in tropical swimparadise
<lotuspsychje> with outside pool
<BluesKaj> we have a lake 2km away, but it's a beach, there's no dock to dive from
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: water a bit clean?
<BluesKaj> water's clean,  it's a spring fed mountain type lake
<lotuspsychje> nice
<BluesKaj> we don't have real mountains ,they're ancient shield mountains , billions of yrs old that have been ground down to a  few hundred meters at the highest points
<BluesKaj> glaciers and manay ice ages later
<lotuspsychje> nice
<BluesKaj> it's ok
<BluesKaj> lots of lakes in this area, very few people have pools, but many have summer cottages on the lakes
<BluesKaj> or by the lakes rather
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: but if it comes from the mountains, water is pretty cold right?
<BluesKaj> yes, the local lake is still cool , it will be warm enough for swimming after this heat wave , 20C or so
<BluesKaj> the water come from springs which are deep down in the earth's crust not from any mountain streams
<lotuspsychje> i see
<lotuspsychje> welcome mystic
<mystic> thanks
<mystic> i was in here yesterday
<lotuspsychje> mystic: nice you found us
<mystic> took the plunge and installed ubuntu on my ssd
<sonicwind> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> mystic: ah your the guy with ubuntu sd persistent
<lotuspsychje> hey sonicwind
<sonicwind> everything still going well, mystic?
<mystic> sd persisnetnt?
<mystic> no ,just standard ubuntu i think
<mystic> sorry, one hand typing, eating
<lotuspsychje> mystic: did you have ubuntu installed on an sd card?
<lotuspsychje> 64gig?
<mystic> yes
<mystic> lol
<lotuspsychje> see its you :p
<sonicwind> I use mine from an external docked HD
<mystic> lol.. so it is
<lordievader> How fast is that sd card?
<lotuspsychje> we told him yesterday it would bottleneck ubuntu lordievader
<lotuspsychje> thats why he installed on ssd now
<lordievader> Hehehe, that is quite the difference ;)
<mystic> im not sure
<mystic> samsung evo
<sonicwind> always good to make sure you have some sort of live media though... I can't believe how many times it has helped me
<BluesKaj> sd would die from too many writes in no time at all, they good for booting a RPI tho
<mystic> rpi?
<BluesKaj> they're
<lotuspsychje> mystic: raspbery pi
<mystic> oh ok
<BluesKaj> arm architecture
<sonicwind> what made you decide to try Ubuntu, mystic?
 * daftykins points at the penguin in the room
<daftykins> it was him, he makes us all
<lotuspsychje> lol
<sonicwind> lol
<BluesKaj> hehe
<mystic> ben trying it on and off for yours.   ther ewas always something about it i liked, the aesthetic.. but in the past i could never get enough done on it.  but now it seems its evolved enough for a relative newbie like me to use
<BluesKaj> mystic, perhaps your experience has "eveolved" :-)
<lotuspsychje> yeah penguin got it nice togheter this time
<mystic> hardly lol
<BluesKaj> oops evolved
<sonicwind> I'm just past 2 1/2 years in... I had enough of M$ and decided it was worth a try... still have a Win 7 system, but using Ubuntu more
<mystic> uhuh
<mystic> i like wind 7.. just a bit heavy
<mystic> win*
<lotuspsychje> i dont have the patience anymore for windows
<sonicwind> I love w7... but I know it isn't going to last forever
<sonicwind> and I'll be damned if I'm ever going to give MS another chance at something else
<daftykins> only 18 more months until 7 goes EOL in fact
<mystic> lol
<lotuspsychje> perhaps windows 11 sonicwind :p
<mystic> eol?
<daftykins> end of life
<lotuspsychje> !eol | mystic
<ubot5> mystic: End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<mystic> ohh
<BluesKaj> W7 is a good OS , W10 is awful
<daftykins> works for me :)
<BluesKaj> heh
<sonicwind> I stopped upgrading my Win 7 system years ago... never been more stable. Yes, I have everything else covered... NoScript, AdBlockPlus, etc.
<sonicwind> updating
<sonicwind> I swear MS puts out crap updates so people go out and buy new systems.
<daftykins> Windows Update on 7 did go funny since 10's release, but i have the 3 updates you need to fix that in a zip
<daftykins> also, when they released the May 2016 update rollup which was essentially as close to a Service Pack 2 as Windows 7 was ever going to get, i made up my own custom ISO with it integrated
<sonicwind> thankfully I stopped updating Win 7 *before* all their updates to force you to Win 10
<daftykins> so whenever i have the misfortune of needing to reinstall 7 instead of move to 10 for a client, i install from that, apply the 3 updates in the zip, then Windows Update is fine
<BluesKaj> i gave up on Windows , Kubuntu does what i need without much fuss
<daftykins> yeah they stopped releasing those actually, so that's a moot point now
<daftykins> i have plenty of clients on 7 that are running it fine
<mystic> win 10 is a bit  hit and miss for me.  but can be ok for a basic user.  i hated how they prety much forced the update on to eveyone tho.   my two other old computers were running win 7, and win 10 install popped up. it didint work properly on both
<mystic> scandalous
<sonicwind> I still don't trust that they stopped doing those, daftykins
<daftykins> well i can tell you it's fact :)
<sonicwind> they completely violated my trust over the years
<daftykins> didn't get any trouble with the alleged forcing of updates myself
<daftykins> i firmly believe that the people who ended up moved to 10 clicked something as part of their standard rushed attempts to dismiss on-screen prompts
<lotuspsychje> yeah a steady hand can get any Os straight
<daftykins> lotus' tale from the other morning of a 'buntu customer who hadn't been installing updates continues to seal my confidence that users are the same no matter which OS you're on :D
<lotuspsychje> true this
<sonicwind> too many of the updates screw things up, regardless of the OS it seems... I've learned to keep a backup. Just recently read about Timeshift and plan to try that out.
<daftykins> yeah no argument there from me
<daftykins> MS did some kinda USB driver screwup the other day, it only affected a friends wifes PC though :D
<sonicwind> I'm using fsarchiver for the backup
<mystic> shame ubuntu doesnt have a system image back up option
<lotuspsychje> !backup
<ubot5> There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
<daftykins> no USB devices would work so you couldn't even use mouse+kb to interact with it - i have some old PS/2 peripherals though so they brought it to me
<daftykins> there are plenty of options :)
<mystic> but not sure a system imag eback up is one of them?
<mystic> clonezilla maybe
<mystic> but u may have t orun windows for that
<daftykins> no you don't
<daftykins> it's a bootable Linux ISO
<mystic> hmm
<daftykins> but full system is a total waste of time
<lotuspsychje> agree
<mystic> systme image is good for me i think
<sonicwind> mystic check out fsarchiver
<mystic> saves me reinstalling the tweaks and fixes etc
<daftykins> you'd be better off learning to script them for a new install :>
<lotuspsychje> mystic: just abckup /home with all config files?
<mystic> sounds dangeroulsy difficult lol
<lotuspsychje> backup
<daftykins> but if you're planning to require a full reimage theeeen i think it's fair to say you're planning to fail with the OS to begin with :D
<mystic> fail how?
<daftykins> with the idea that you'd have to revert to said backup
<daftykins> another approach -> 'buntu OS installed on the SSD, but /home on a 2 disk RAID1 volume
<mystic> not a fail for me, just a safety measure.  after ages of tweaking, why relearn or go thru al lthat again
<daftykins> that'd be the ideal
<lotuspsychje> mystic: choosing an LTS, installing tweaks every 5 years?
<daftykins> well you'll be surprised how quickly things change on any desktop OS anyway, what you learn today could be useless next month
<mystic> every 5 years is fine.. but if it fails in between, id have to do again
<daftykins> hence RAID that /home :)
<mystic> i only have one disk in this laptop though
<lotuspsychje> mystic: ubuntu doesnt just fail in between easy
<mystic> hmm
<mystic> disks can though
<lotuspsychje> unless you have bad disk yeah, and that daftykins solution
<mystic> which one lol
<lotuspsychje> mystic: also first lesson ever, make a second backup of your data
<lotuspsychje> raid on /home
<mystic> i dont know raid.  and i only have one ssd in this laptop
<mystic> this is why i just like a system cloner
<mystic> just done with
<lotuspsychje> mystic: you can also choose backing up to external media
<mystic>  ialso have a 'cliclkfree'  external hdd with some data on it, but cant access it with ubuntu
<sonicwind> I back stuff up to a separate external HD, and in the process of putting what data I can on pcloud and/or protonmail
<daftykins> laptops :(
<daftykins> mystic: no reason you shouldn't be able to, unless you mean files that need Windows only software
<sonicwind> what is a "clickfree" hd?
<lotuspsychje> a home NAS can be great :p
<daftykins> ^
<sonicwind> ok
<mystic> its a hdd with built in software, aut oback up kinda stuff
<mystic> which infortunately means it wont even open in ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> one touch backup?
<daftykins> sounds crap
<lotuspsychje> lol
<mystic> something like that i think
<lotuspsychje> what brand, what format mystic ?
<mystic> clickfree
<mystic> probably ntfs
<daftykins> it sounds like one of the typical drives that offers encryption features and so on, the USB bridge chip presents as two devices - one is the HDD - the other is a small volume of software
<daftykins> typically the software then offers the encryption element so can lock the drive portion from the user
<lotuspsychje> =trashbin
<daftykins> yep or just a total format to bypass all that junk
<daftykins> it could also be implemented on-disk with two partitions
<mystic> its fine in windows
<lotuspsychje> mystic: perhaps take a look on that thing with gparted
<mystic> i just turn of fthe clickfree process trhe naccess my stuff normally
<mystic> cant access it with ubuntu tho
<mystic> may try gparted yea
<lotuspsychje> mystic: perhaps take alook on that thing with gparted
<daftykins> just show is how it looks right now plugged in
<daftykins> sudo parted -l | pastebinit
<daftykins> *show us
<daftykins> my fingers are trolling me with vowels it seems
<lotuspsychje> lol
<mystic> how to screen capture?
<daftykins> why would you need to
<daftykins> or do you mean in general other than running the command above? :>
<mystic> i didnt see it
<daftykins> but it's right up there ^
<mystic> i didnt know it a a command
<mystic> im not used to it
<mystic> eiterh way, it only shows my internall ssd
<mystic> no info of the clickfree at all
<daftykins> and it's definitely plugged in by USB?
<daftykins> the full command i typed would give you a URL to share here, so i can't be sure you're doing it right
<daftykins> there's also "lsusb | pastebinit" which may show the device plugged in
<mystic> im supposedto put pasbinnit also?
<mystic> ok, i thought you were telling me to 'paste bin it' myself
<mystic> bloody terminal codes...
<daftykins> that would have spaces and a sequence of english that makes sense :)
<mystic> i thought it was aquick slng rewuest
<mystic> request
<mystic> slang*
<daftykins> then it wouldn't be in quotes either
<mystic> its not
<mystic> sudo parted -l | pastebinit
<mystic> [sudo] password for mystic:
<mystic> Command 'pastebinit' not found, but can be installed with:
<daftykins> by that i meant my second command
<daftykins> you're just being picky now :)
<mystic> jeez..  how do i know  lol
<daftykins> you need to ask when you don't know
<mystic> i was asking
<daftykins> yeah ok, so pastebinit isn't installed, so "sudo apt update && sudo apt install pastebinit" <-- that's a command :)
<mystic> but cant follow that if its not clear for begginers
<daftykins> yes with the first one i should have said "you need to run this in a terminal"
<mystic> whats supposedto happen after pastebinnit?
<mystic> nothing showing
<daftykins> it'd likely ask for your user password first, to allow using sudo
<daftykins> or if not, it should've installed the package
<mystic> it didnt
<mystic> it installed
<mystic> im talking about your other command
<mystic> pastebinit
<mystic> nothing happened
<daftykins> no... it was "lsusb | pastebinit"
<mystic> you rtold me they wer etwo seperate commands lol
<mystic> so i seperated them
<daftykins> by that i meant "lsusb | pastebinit" and "sudo parted -l | pastebinit"
<daftykins> you have to be doing this on purpose because nobody is this challenged :P
<mystic> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KYSqZWwXgj/
<mystic> no,, im fine on windows.. ubuntu is just shite for beginners
<mystic> how do i knw owat u meant.. never done it before
<daftykins> i'm talking about understanding that a single thing counts as text on one line between two "
<mystic> nevermind
<daftykins> other than mystery device on line 4 then, it's not giving up a lot of info
<mystic> doesnt work anyway
<daftykins> never say 'doesn't work' in IT, that's the most useless two words ever
<daftykins> "i tried x, y happened, i expected z"
<daftykins> anywho, time for a new external HDD :D
<mystic> or just go bac kto windows lol
<mystic> stuf fworks without having to learn terminal code
<mystic> or have people hinting that im a retard
<daftykins> this is why desktop Linux is a bit of a joke still to me (i don't use it) because you can't do all the things graphically
<daftykins> but this is true of Windows at the intermediate level too, gotta dip into command line
<sonicwind> didn't know about pastebinit... pretty slick... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pastebinit
<sonicwind> yet another thing to add to my install to-do list
<daftykins> though since it's not installed as default, surprisingly, it's more useful to pipe to netcat
<daftykins> commandhere | nc termbin.com 9999
<sonicwind> easier to remember pastebinit :-)
<daftykins> yeah but sometimes we help people that the installation would be yet another delay for
<sonicwind> right
<daftykins> or their install might be broken and they can't install, at that moment in time
<daftykins> also recently i've seen pastebinit give URLs back with no paste ID ;/
<sonicwind> neat... only vaguely familiar with netcat... just tried that out
<mystic> cant start my windows 10 in virtual box
<mystic> 'VT-x is disabled in the BIOS for all CPU modes (VERR_VMX_MSR_ALL_VMX_DISABLED).'
<mystic> please advise
<mystic> sorry, wrong room
<daftykins> you need to enable virtualisation in your BIOS
<daftykins> when you turn on the system, assuming this is the laptop you mentioned, when you see the manufacturer logo (or even slightly before) you have to press F2 or delete, (it's different per brand) which lets you enter BIOS setup
<daftykins> you can turn on virtualisation technologies inside there, but only if supported by that laptop (some hide the setting, or don't even offer it)
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj, how's things?
<BluesKaj> ok here pauljw, still hot tho. how about you
<BluesKaj> ?
<pauljw> yeah, very hot here, too.  real feel: 107F going up to 108F, same tomorrow.
<BluesKaj> gawd
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> we have close 100F "feels like" degrees/index
<pauljw> it's miserable but we're hanging on inside even though the a/c went out yesterday afternoon.
<BluesKaj> ouch
<pauljw> inconvenient, makes me happy that we rent.  haven't bothered the landlord with it yet, it's a holiday so he won't be getting anyone out today.  will let him know in a bit so he can get on it in the morning.  :)
 * BluesKaj nods
<BluesKaj> started the a/c early to get a head start, it was still 77F in the house at 6 this morning
<BluesKaj> it's supposed to pass tomorrow evening , should be normal temps on fri, 75-80F during the day
<daftykins> pauljw: glad i'm not dropping by in summer ;)
<BluesKaj> guess i'll take walk to the mail box...bbiab
<daftykins> well, if it's good enough for Versace...
<pauljw> heheh... well, it's normally not an issue.  but i agree, glad no one is here for this.
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> very warm and humid here too, i'm in shorts and t-shirt mode for sure
<daftykins> bare feet around the house to keep cool
<pauljw> we have ceiling fans and the whole house fan which i opened the intake vent in the basement so it's bringing some cooler basement air up.
<daftykins> that's neat, Lorie's place has fans but i've not seen what they can do
<pauljw> i don't do bare feet, every time i hit my toes on something that doesn't move... :(
<daftykins> oof
<mystic> so clueless gets to stay but im kicked, yet he insulted me first
<mystic> i like the way you ubuntu cats roll lol
<hggdh> mystic: the issue there is you would not stop
<mystic> i didn tstart it, thats the issue
<mystic> then he expects me to  accept his 'help'  when he decides to be 'nice'
<mystic> i dont bend over like that, sorry
<tsimonq2> B/or
<tsimonq2> whoops
<hggdh> so you got banned. I fail to see how this helped you
<mystic> being banned from a ubuntu chat room is better then bending over
<hggdh> OK.
<mystic> now, can anyone help me get wine working, or i will have to do a win10 reinstall
<mystic> one or the other
<coconut_> mystic: install windows, you have given up on linux already.
<mystic> i was insulted in here ,then insulted in the other room
<mystic> now im asking again, and u reply with some gnarly comment
<mystic> lol
<hggdh> coconut_: just don't
<hggdh> mystic: and you, please do not start here
<mystic> go to puppy linux room and see how to treat other human beings
<mystic> i didn tstart
<mystic> i was started on
<hggdh> mystic: I do not care. If you keep going, you will be out of here as well
<BluesKaj> mystic, you blame everyone for one person's ignorance
<mystic> oh, at least 2 people
<hggdh> mystic: stop.
<mystic> help me then
<mystic> then i can leave
<daftykins> you're going to need to accept your own abilities and take the advice given as it is offered, otherwise this isn't the place for you
<pauljw> gotta run for a bit, going to find an air-conditioned restaurant for dinner... bbl.
<daftykins> hehe poor paul
<oerheks> hggdh, maybe gamblore runs into this https://www.theindy.us/is-firefox-lying-to-users-about-viruses-in-downloads/
<hggdh> oerheks: he might, but I think his issue was DNS cache
<hggdh> I generically consider these type of warnings as uselessly dangerous
<oerheks> yes, sometimes hilarious..
<oerheks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/eakrho2sfpgdvbw/virusaanval.png?dl=0
<oerheks> old one, 2011 or so
<hggdh> heh
<oerheks> c: drive .. spaces in folder names.. i was questioning myself too
<daftykins> spaces in folders have been fine on Windows for years :)
<oerheks> sure, C: drives too
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> but basicly, i think it is nuts, spaces in names
<daftykins> sure is annoying for script making :>
<oerheks> or irc user names that start with _ or ^
<daftykins> ah those symbols are easy on a UK keyboard ;D
<daftykins> $ mv Rise\ of\ the\ Tomb\ Raider\ 8K\ 4320p60\ Gameplay\ Titan\ X\ Pascal\ 4\ Way\ SLI\ Gaming\ 4K\ _\ 5K\ _\ 8K\ and\ Beyond-FcvmrTsZuDM.webm RotTR-8K.webm
<daftykins> :D
<hggdh> yeah. They suck, these spaces
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<oerheks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<lotuspsychje> ready for another day of heat?
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader morning mate
<lordievader> How are you doing lotuspsychje ?
<lotuspsychje> we escaped the heat yesterday with a tropical pool swim
<lotuspsychje> today visisting sluis for the day
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> ð
<ducasse> hi lordievader - how's your morning so far?
<lordievader> Quite allright. How is your morning treating you?
<ducasse> all good here. a bit cloudy, so might be a little cooler today.
<lordievader> It always starts here cool... and then it heats up -.-
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> ð
<blackflow> eeewwwmoji
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<pauljw> hi everyone
<blackflow> o/
<pauljw> hi blackflow, BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw , blackflow
<BluesKaj> damn canada revenue agency put an IP cookie on my browser so couldn't relogin  after they mucked up their security question software...the agent I spoke to even admitted that their software is clunky, but thank goodness for vpn service  :-)
<pauljw> leave it to govt to screw things up...
<BluesKaj> still having a few tax issues over my wife's passing, but it's mostly settled now.
<BluesKaj> still hot pauljw?
<pauljw> oh, didn't know about the wife, sorry.  hope you get everything taken care of.  yeah, already 84 in the house.  it's 8am, guess it's time to call the landlord.
<BluesKaj> supposedly gonna drop to 29C/84F from 34C/93F yesterday...some relief anyway
<pauljw> good, our relief is due here tonight i guess.
<BluesKaj> same here
<pauljw> i'll never get the lawn caught up, danged if i'm going out in that heat without a/c to come into.
<BluesKaj> yeah, gotta do the front and back tomorrow morning early,  right after the dew dries up and while the temp is still relatively cool
<BluesKaj> I know I'll end up feeling like a wet rag no matter what the temp is tho :-)
<pauljw> well, the a/c is back.  capacitor was blown.
<BluesKaj> wow, that was quick
<pauljw> yeah, the guy said he 5 mins from the interstate on his way into Louisville, so he detoured here first and it took about 10 mins for him to diagnose and replace the part.
<BluesKaj> good service :-)
<pauljw> yep
 * BluesKaj heads for the kitchen to boil a couple eggs
<daftykins> \o/
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<daftykins> BluesKaj: sorry for your loss as well, hope it wasn't a surprise thing
<daftykins> a good morn to you \o
<daftykins> ah finally got some food in myself, so silenced the internal complaints xD
<BluesKaj> daftykins, oh it was a surprise and a shock My wife seemed to be in excellent health , but she died from an aortic aneurysm that was almost undetectable
<daftykins> that's terrible!
<BluesKaj> back on Feb 6
<daftykins> family been by to help, if they're not all moved far away?
<BluesKaj> yes, my daughter drives up from Toronto about once/month and my other kids keep track and monitor my well being by phone ...they've been great. My friends have been very supportive as well.
<daftykins> glad to hear!
<pauljw> :)
<hggdh> good morning folks
<BluesKaj> 'Morning hggdh
<BluesKaj> never heard of a wifi chip supporting more than one wifi interface/connection at a time
<BluesKaj> if there is such a thing, it's news to me
<BluesKaj> atheros is supposed to have AP and mesh capability simultaneously ...news to me
<BluesKaj> bbl
<lotuspsychje> good (hot) afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> !info zfs xenial
<ubot5> Package zfs does not exist in xenial
<pragmaticenigma> !info fuze-zfs
<ubot5> Package fuze-zfs does not exist in bionic
<pragmaticenigma> !info fuse-zfs
<ubot5> Package fuse-zfs does not exist in bionic
<pragmaticenigma> !info zfsutils-linux
<ubot5> zfsutils-linux (source: zfs-linux): command-line tools to manage OpenZFS filesystems. In component main, is extra. Version 0.7.5-1ubuntu16.2 (bionic), package size 356 kB, installed size 1146 kB
<Bashing-om> !bcm | daftykins
<ubot5> daftykins: Help with Broadcom bcm43xx can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
<daftykins> i know it well :) you just can't get drivers going with a live session, has to be an install so you can reboot and have changes kept :D
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Was but a reminder :)  WIFI is no fun .
<BluesKaj> yeah default bcmwl driver doesn't work properly with my 4313 chip. I had to search google mostly to find a rare one that doesn't ask for my pw everytime I boot or relogin '
<BluesKaj> guess it doesn't store the pw properly in it's config
<daftykins> weird, would've thought that was the very highest layer
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: trolls playing again :p
<leftyfb> 1 of them more than likely is. The other is just impatient and not paying attention
<lotuspsychje> and hey BluesKaj & Bashing-om
<pragmaticenigma> <Guest57880> must think they're really l33t... having the system username hacker
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: This time of the morning ? .. What's the haps ?
<lotuspsychje> slowly & steady
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Uh Huh, ^ that the way a race is won :)
<lotuspsychje> updating oerheks
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the hint
<oerheks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 61.0+build3-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 (bionic), package size 44641 kB, installed size 168695 kB
<oerheks> and run dist-upgrade... lots more
<oerheks> brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrb
<lotuspsychje> hey Jonta hfp
<hfp> hey
<Jonta> Hi
<lotuspsychje> here we gather the most active volunteers
<Jonta> Oh my
<lotuspsychje> and be a better help in main, by discussing it here
<lotuspsychje> so mostly welcome guys
<Jonta> Thank you
<hfp> :)
<lotuspsychje> hfp: you noticed a good point as https works on manual
<pragmaticenigma> hfp: Since you're here... Google is making an effort to make everyone believe that anything not https is bad. It's simply not true, many things do not require https... https is best suited for websites where users are actively exchanging information (i.e. posting content, editing articles, etc.) http is great for static pages, that don't require regular maintaining.
<Jonta> Simplification is good. https everything is simpler than "it depends"
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje ...was busy converting some music files
<hfp> pragmaticenigma: IMHO, https is good for everything: one of my ISPs used to do shady stuff and insert their own code into http pages passing through their pipes
<pragmaticenigma> A static webpage running on https requires maintaining becuase the certificate eventually expires. When the cert expires, it prevents people from accessing that information
<hfp> I think comcast did this in the last few years too, they were inserting a global tracking id of sorts IIRC
<hfp> yes and no, with lets encrypt or netlify it's not that hard to keep your cert up to date and your webiste online. cloudflare helps too, but then cloudlfare is a mitm so I personally don't like it
<pragmaticenigma> hfp: This is a good example of what I'm trying to say. https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/06/30/028220/is-googles-promotion-of-https-misguided
<pragmaticenigma> The best statement from the article is: Google is a guest on the web, as we all are. Guests don't make the rules.
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: you feel tabs faster now?
<hfp> right, I didn't consider Chrome marking http as insecure and inaccessible
<pragmaticenigma> I don't see harm in upgrading sites to https... I see harm in a company forcing people to think they have to
<lotuspsychje> the force of google :p
<lotuspsychje> you need a search engine and and a mailbox!
<lotuspsychje> we are all slaves of technology no?
<hfp> Fair enough. I can't think of a better way to keep ISPs from interferring and chagning the content in transit though. I can't find a narticle about that ISP who inserted a global UUID in its customers' webpages
<pragmaticenigma> the build up of https was born out of the shady practices of a few bad actors. I'm not blind to that factor, but I find alternatives or solutions to those problems... not the sledge hammer approach google is forcing people to believe
<hfp> lotuspsychje: I broke my chains from gmail and rolled my own mailserver
<lotuspsychje> hfp: good idea :p
<pragmaticenigma> hfp: First step is to not use your ISPs DNS servers. That's how they're able to about 95% of it.
<lotuspsychje> then only slave from isp and .gov now :p
<hggdh> Verizon
<hggdh> and AT&T...
<pragmaticenigma> Even when you think you've found an ISP free of meddling, you as the consumer aren't really free... ISPs are all interconnected, and the local ISP down the street has to get their interent from somewhere. In the United States, it's Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, Centry Link (formally Level 3), Comcast, and a couple others
<pragmaticenigma> There is no real way to avoid them, other than to cut the cord and go offline
<pragmaticenigma> what is the magic encantation for getting the release upgrade official date?
<oerheks> lts to lts?
<pragmaticenigma> yeah
<pragmaticenigma> !lts
<ubot5> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions are supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Bionic (Bionic Beaver 18.04). Ubuntu !flavors may have different support durations, check their release notes for information.
<pragmaticenigma> !isitout
<ubot5> Yes, it's out! Party in #ubuntu-release-party :)
<pragmaticenigma> neither give the date of the LTS upgrade release date
<pragmaticenigma> !lts-upgrade
<lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: ^
<lotuspsychje> im out for some tv & sleep
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 all
<pragmaticenigma> i was so... sooo... close
<lotuspsychje> :p
<oerheks> Bashing-om :-D
<Bashing-om> oerheks: It's amazing out there :P
<oerheks> ..  and the identities of people active in partner projects like Tor, and Tails, the privacy-focused operating system. https://www.zdnet.com/article/german-police-raid-homes-of-tor-linked-groups-board-members/
<oerheks> :-(
<tomreyn> woah wtf, why they put their full names there.
<oerheks> .. or the servers were open and running..
<Bashing-om> Big Brother ^^ ... at it's worst :(
<oerheks> or it is just a smokescreen, who knows
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-06
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
 * AdamMacbook coughs
<AdamMacbook> hello all
<lotuspsychje> wb
<AdamMacbook> thanks
<lotuspsychje> AdamMacbook: there's a pretty active gaming community on #gamingonlinux aswell
<AdamMacbook> Yeah, I do a lot of gaming on linux ^_^
<AdamMacbook> usually with wine but, you know.
<AdamMacbook> a few on steam
<AdamMacbook> But hey, perhaps lubuntu would work good on this older macbook
<AdamMacbook> is there a cli tool to make ubuntu live usb's like unetbootin... because I'm kinda restricted to terminal at this point
<AdamMacbook> actually, let me try a reboot, brb
<oerheks> he runs faster thant that macbook
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> breakfast
<lotuspsychje> (slow)
<ducasse> good morning, guys
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning, lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse , How are you doing?
<ducasse> i'm ok, thanks, and you?
<oerheks> hi there lordievader
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<lordievader> Hey oerheks
<lordievader> How are you?
<oerheks> fine thank you, and how about yourself?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Trying to get a Windows vm to cooperate.
<oerheks> what colour?
<lordievader> What do you mean?
<oerheks> Blue?
<oerheks> bsod :-P
<lordievader> Have only seen one ð
<oerheks> i like blue, this naked cargobike will be RAL5005 soon https://www.dropbox.com/s/klgfdd2kfrutxt7/2018sanding-bike.JPG?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> ð
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<BluesKaj> encrypting ubiquity ? ...wth
<JimBuntu> needs some paint oerheks
<lordievader> Encrypting ubiquity? Where?
<BluesKaj> <EriC^^> stevenm_: the ubuntu installer isn't very encryption customizable
<BluesKaj> hey lordievader
<lordievader> ð
<lordievader> How are you doing BluesKaj ?
<BluesKaj> ok here lordievader, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<pauljw> hi everyone
<leftyfb> could someone assist Mustaches in the main chat? That troll(Bugzie/Bigzie) is just going to make things worse for them
<BluesKaj> bugzie suffers from "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" syndrome ...he thinks he's actually helping
<leftyfb> he's a known troll
<leftyfb> please just ignore him
<JimBuntu> hmmmm. It seems ubottu has lost some commands
<JimBuntu> best, anyone and poll don't seem to work anymore, yes they are still listed at the ubottu.com/factoids.cgi page
<leftyfb> hggdh: ? chu ?
<hggdh> genii took care of it
<blackflow> he usually just comes back with another IP or nick. they all share one thing though, "marvel" account name. that one should be keyed.
<blackflow> oh look, he just did.
<blackflow> hggdh: ^^  :)
<coconut> Anyone here ever used an Entroware laptop?
<leftyfb> coconut: if you need help with it, I would suggest detailing an actual support question in #ubuntu
<coconut> leftyfb: no i just want a good laptop, as we all do i guess. I don't have on of that brand yet.
<coconut> But thanks for caring. :)
<hggdh> he does not keep the same account always.
<blackflow> and he's back. Rainyaviel, ircname: win10
<EriC^^> why's #ubuntu +r?
<JimBuntu> nuisance chatter
<EriC^^> oic
<tomreyn> leftyfb: thanks again for your support earlier ;)
<leftyfb> tomreyn: did you get it sorted?
<tomreyn> turns out ITS ALL TJ's FAULT!!!111 (TM)
<leftyfb> isn't that usually the case? :)
<tomreyn> yes, sorted, and not really TJ's fault, just kidding. i applied these ACPI_OSI tests to my system and had forgotten about it
<tomreyn> which just made the system fail to boot without any message
<tomreyn> and then got puzzled by the initrd format, which still puzzles me
<tomreyn> http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html is what i'm referring to. i had put 'GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="acpi_osi=! acpi_osi="Windows 2015"' into my /etc/default/grub on this ryzen system
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: reasons we should not recommned TJ-'s advise ?
<tomreyn> well, depend son whether you want it to boot or not ;)
<tomreyn> but his article is fine. it's just me who failed to test it.
<tomreyn> its not that his article says "this will work"
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Not usable on a Ryzen board ? .. As I have had good results from the DSDT change on laptops .
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: not the "Windows 2015" string, for me. i haven't tried any others, yet, plan to do this still. for now i'm just glad i can boot
<tomreyn> it's also a desktop, not a laptop. but i do have some acpi issues. acpid freezes on shutdown and, i think, also after power saving.
<tomreyn> oh i should say i was the "initrd" person on #ubuntu in case you watched me yelling for help there.
<tomreyn> *initrm
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: I would hate to find out the hard way on another's system that the ability to boot is lost . Still have access via the recovery console ?
<tomreyn> you can just remove the paramerters from grub.
<tomreyn> all i got on normal boot was a blank screen, all i got on recovery was grub printing that is it loading linux, then loading the inirtd. and there it got stuck.
<tomreyn> and IIRC ctrl-alt-del didnt work
<tomreyn> so i had forgotten that i had put the acpi_osi stuff there (i also had it on the recovery kernels, silly me)
<tomreyn> and so i thought it would have to do something with initrd, since this was the last line printed on screen. so i had booted from a live usb and looked into the initrd's i've got
<tomreyn> and noticed they were not comproessed (according to GNU file)
<tomreyn> and when expanded with cpio, contained only one file
<tomreyn> it's still this way now. on the same system, where i booted from this initrd fine.
<tomreyn> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mbZKvWfMzz/
<tomreyn> obviously i'm not getting how initrd works nowadays.
<tomreyn> this is 16.04 with hwe-edge
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Naw .. nothing silly at all :) .. Me too gone round and round with minor ACPI issues in this ole desktop ( ex-file server _ I make my notes in the grub file when I make a change ! // and yeah .. lots has changed with systemd as the init system .. ouch .. lots of homework to do .
<tomreyn> it would help trmendously is not all of the documentation was outdated
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: in respect to the paste and the -25 kernel .. I have seen a lot of bug reports on this particular kernel .. and it has not been released for cosmic to this time .
<tomreyn> it's not just the -25, the others are the same
<tomreyn> also 4.4.0-130
<tomreyn> so my guess is that the initrd files actually consist of multiple joined archives
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Have not had cause to look at initrd.img in ages . Just do not recall .. Iffen ya want I do have a 16.04 install I can boot into if ya want me to see what my results are .
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: thanks, bit no need. i compared to another 16.04 already, it's the same.
<tomreyn> and it works. i just dont understand how. but i'll learn.
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: ^ what keeps us out of the bars at night :P
<tomreyn> that, and soccer
<tomreyn> or rather *some* people reacting to soccer
<tomreyn> binwalk to the rescue! https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MQ296gq7RQ/
<daftykins> hmm what's that showing, the 'trailer' bit suggest it's a bad file?
<tomreyn> so the gzip in the end contains the actual initrd, plus it has (in my case) two microcode files attached in front off it
<tomreyn> TRAILER!!! is just a mark to make it easier to tell where in this large blob the next part starts
<tomreyn> so basically one would need to count the number of trailers, and check their addresses, then dd these parts into separate files, and handle each of them (the microcodes with cpio, the gzip with ... gunzip)
<tomreyn> and the gzip is the main part, the one which contains most of the files and the init script
<tomreyn> yours will look the same, though youmight not have both (or any of) the microcodes prepended.
<lotuspsychje> good night to all
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<tomreyn> unmkinitramfs(8), as provided by bionic's initramfs-tools, is the tool to use there http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man8/unmkinitramfs.8.html
<lotuspsychje> hey tomreyn
<tomreyn> hey lotuspsychje
<tomreyn> shouldnt you be going out, enjoing your life and stuff?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: i was trying to sleep, but the heat doesnt leave our house anymore
<tomreyn> credit to Mr. (CJ)Watson to the above
<lotuspsychje> besides, whats better then irc green on black?
<lotuspsychje> hey hfp-
<tomreyn> you could do what i did, add random kernel parameters to your system and forgot about it, reboot, and panic.
<tomreyn> i mean human panic, not kernel panic
 * lotuspsychje is calculating tomreyn's information......
<lotuspsychje> .........nothing found
<tomreyn> :-/
<tomreyn> am i producing too much output? i'll tune it down, coming to a rest now.
<lotuspsychje> still trying to figure out what life has to do human panic :p
<lotuspsychje> seems like it deep joke night tonight
<tomreyn> oh, didnt get that one
<lotuspsychje> nvm im bit in the twilight zone
<tomreyn> is it so hot in .be today? i'm in .be%00rlin, not too hot today, not much sun
<lotuspsychje> yeah whole week 27+
<tomreyn> yesterday it was unbearable here, too
<lotuspsychje> at the morning i open garden door, works for like 1h then warms up again
<tomreyn> make some clouds tomorrow, they helped here
<tomreyn> moar chemtrails needed!!11
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> more HAARP
<lotuspsychje> and more transhumanism
<tomreyn> whats HAARP, i read that before
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: that weather war machine from alaska
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: it can influence the weather
<tomreyn> oh, looks like i missed something exciting
<lotuspsychje> yeah if you like chemtrails, worth to lookup :p
<tomreyn> so far i only knew the russians had a programme like this, to have nice military marches
<lotuspsychje> contras will say its impossible, pros even say when vulcano activity rises, haarp activity rises at same times
<tomreyn> that sounds like nonsense :)
<tomreyn> looks like i missed a relevant conspiracy theory there, thanks for the hint
<lotuspsychje> alot of things sounding as nonsense als got true years after
<tomreyn> climate change? ;)
<lotuspsychje> who knows whats the bigger plan of those who have money to influence
<lotuspsychje> from nature i dont trust big orgs or govs..
<tomreyn> being sceptic there is surely wise.
<tomreyn> *sceptical
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> !info pv
<ubot5> pv (source: pv): Shell pipeline element to meter data passing through. In component main, is optional. Version 1.6.6-1 (bionic), package size 50 kB, installed size 126 kB
<lotuspsychje> yeah think that was it ducasse daftykins
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: "sure to decive for yourself what's "the best""" . I thought - given the circumstance .. was quite apt to say "decieve" :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-07
<tomreyn> hehe
<tomreyn> i realized this mistake all too soon
<tomreyn> i guess there will be no ssh tunneling with this user
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: did you know unmkinitramfs nad the current initrd file format? i learnt something new today during my PEBCAK session this afternoon
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: not in the leaast .. the term " unmkinitramfs ' is UNfamiliar :(
<tomreyn> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man8/unmkinitramfs.8.html
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: i didnt know it either, just wondered how to peek into an initramfs in 2018 <tomreyn> binwalk to the rescue! https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MQ296gq7RQ/
<tomreyn> (or rather: since the past few years, where i never did)
<tomreyn> there's not a huge trove of documentation on this format which every systemd based distro seems to use nowadays.
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: a new toy :) .. I had always done 'cpio' direct to extract the ramfs .
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: so didi, and ended up with https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mbZKvWfMzz/
<tomreyn> *did i
<tomreyn> which made me think it was broken, since my desktop would not boot at the time, stopping after "Loading initrd". took me a while to realize it was this other issue.
<Bashing-om> added to my notes on the to-do list :)
<tomreyn> :)
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: I had followed along with what you were doing .. but as I am booting 18.10, I did not feel I could add anything .
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Also kinda procrastinating on doing UWN - can not seem to get in the frame of mind to do article summaries .
<tomreyn> Bashing-om: thanks for following my chat there. is 18.10 different in terms of initrd?UWN = ubuntu weekly news?
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: can not say what may have changed in the cosmic kernel space as I have yet to look and see . // Yes, UWN us Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter . Got to get hot on it if it is to meet the Monday deadline .
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: to tell the truth. last time I seriously looked at the kernel was the change from 10.04 to 12.04 .
<tomreyn> hehe
<tomreyn> time flies
<Bashing-om> Time - Tell me ! .. Can not believe tghe time lapse since I was *forced* to relinguish 10.04 .. it is now 18.10 time . A lot of support time !
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !info clonezilla
<ubot5> clonezilla (source: clonezilla): bare metal backup and recovery of disk drives. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.27.16-2 (bionic), package size 754 kB, installed size 2915 kB
<Bashing-om> Toddl'n off to bed ,,, G Night \o
<ducasse> good morning
<blackflow> moaning!
<lotuspsychje> any of you guys saw automatic kernel cleanup in update-manager yet?
<lotuspsychje> i seen it once GUI
<lotuspsychje> hmm seems like my bug about it dissapeared
<lotuspsychje> !kernelcleanup
<ubot5> For information about removing old kernels to free up space on /boot, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RemoveOldKernels
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> support is ZZZzzzZZZ at the moment
<blackflow> Sat afternoon for the european shift :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> and sunny, and vacation, and grocerys
<lotuspsychje> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/banking-trojan-found-in-over-40-models-of-low-cost-android-smartphones/
<lotuspsychje> android is safe heh, what a joke
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> i don't bank on my phone unless I feel safe on the network i'm using
<BluesKaj> think i did it once only a few weeks ago
<blackflow> to be fair, the problem is not really in android, it's in malicious vendors.
<blackflow> the lower the price of something, the higher the "price" of it :)
<lotuspsychje> thats only what they know, im sure many other rootkits floating around unknown tru all kinds of mobile Oses
<lotuspsychje> welcome revenant
<revenant> Hello world.  I've got a friend claiming Ubuntu's full of proprietary awfulness and lots of restrictions, but I've never seen any restrictions.  Does anyone see practical differences between Ubuntu and Debian?
<blackflow> you sure she didn't mean Apple/OSX/IOS?
<blackflow> (it's UNIX, you know, so maybe there's the confusion with (Ubuntu) Linux)
<lotuspsychje> !debian | revenant
<ubot5> revenant: Ubuntu and Debian are closely related. Ubuntu builds on the foundations of Debian architecture and infrastructure, with a different community and release process. See https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/ubuntu-and-debian - !Repositories meant for Debian should NOT be used on Ubuntu!
<revenant> blackflow - she definitely didn't mean Apple. She's just pretty extreme about the FOSS stuff.  I wonder how much truth there is to it, because the only thing I have trouble modifying is the Gnome terminal, nothing to do with Ubuntu.
<blackflow> revenant: there's no truth to it. Ubuntu _may_ be opinionated on how certain things are pre-set, but it's all open and GPL compliant (and compliant to any other license some software might come with, in official Ubuntu repositories).
<blackflow> on the other side of the spectrum, it is not strict wrt Libre software, and thus it support installation of non-libre software, like nvidia proprietary drivers, for example.
<revenant> blackflow: that's been my experience.  I've seen some nice things about the Debian repositories, but Ubuntu seems more up to date, and I wonder if installing drivers for my NVidia graphics card would be difficult under Debian.
<blackflow> Debian supports "nonfree" repositories.
<BluesKaj> sometimes debian permissions can be a pita, but otherwise it's a top notch OS IMO
<BluesKaj> their support chat is populated by some really pedantic assh*les too
<blackflow> it's a quality OS, no doubt about it. personally I prefer the better hardware and software support, and the whole release model of Ubuntu, esp. LTS + 6-month dev versions inbetween for some new software love affair :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, I like testing new Kubuntu dev releases
<blackflow> sometimes the NIH stuff like netplan can be a bit annoying :)
<blackflow> but Unity was awesomest thing. bestest DE out there. I have had sads that it's no longer officially supported.
<EriC^^> hello all
<blackflow> 'elo
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: :)
<jink> :')
<pauljw> hi everyone
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-08
<hggdh> oerheks: I think they are testing how far they can go
<oerheks> yes, we know the drill
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<oerheks> hi lotus
<oerheks> interesting list https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/07/03/fresh-snaps-from-june-2018
<guiverc> yeah I thought so too, snap installed the quake-sha.. & was wondering why people used to play it for ages... 10+ mins later I was still playing it :)   (& howdy lotuspsychje)
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: morning
<hggdh> and... good night to all
<oerheks> snap install tmnationsforever corsixth flare-rpg sdlpop pencilsheep shattered-pixel-dungeon
<oerheks> nn hggdh
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks guiverc hggdh
<tomreyn> oerheks: thanks for your review there.
<tomreyn> soon, infozip will be at 10 years without a stable release ;)
<guiverc> tomreyn - no, that's a very stable release :)
<tomreyn> as stable as the old full backup you took 10 years ago, since when you created incrementals
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ducasse> good morning
<guiverc> howdy ducasse :)
<ducasse> hi guiverc :) how are you doing?
<guiverc> great thanks ducasse, you?
<ducasse> ok here, thanks - having a cold coke and a cigarette to wake up :)
<guiverc> cold coke.... i haven't done that in decades (though it was pepsi for me)... large hot milo (malt drink) does it for me :)
<ducasse> it's a periodic thing here, in a little while it will be something else
<Bashing-om> The something else for me right now is bed - vice irc . GN all \o
<guiverc> night Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> guiverc: We have more fun tomorrow :P
<guiverc> :)    [  or should that be :(  ]
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<hays> ping
<hays> right now i have a server mobo, with ecc memory, maxed at 32gb and an onboard 8 port SAS2 controller
<hays> a pretty good setup--i think memory is the only concern
<hays> blockflaw:
<hays> i was looking at the seagates re8 liner
<hays> line
<blockflaw> right, so that should work more than well with a striped mirror or even raidz2
<hays> with raidz2 i could get up to 50TB of space
<hays> that might push me into needing more memory
<blockflaw> nah, don't take that 1GB per TB so strictly
<blockflaw> it all boils down to what's the load profile you want to optimize for
<hays> does zfs let you convert a raidz1 into raidz2
<hays> or maybe build a raidz2 as degraded
<blockflaw> afaik no
<hays> i kinda want to use one of the drives to migrate my data
<blockflaw> that's the problem with ZFS, no way to upgrade/downgrade/change a vdev once defined
<blockflaw> but afaik you _can_ start with a degraded array and add missing drives later
<hays> well hot spares are not the worst idea
<blackflow> hot spares are nice, you don't have to rush to the server with a replacement.
<blackflow> and you know when a disk dies, there's that panic that another one is about to go belly up soon
<blackflow> which, incidentally, and against all odds, happened to me once. a 2-way mirror, one disk died, got replaced and while it was resilvering, the other died too.
<hays> yeah ive had a close call within weeks once
<blackflow> since then I said nowai, raidz2 or nothing.
<hays> hitachi deskstars
<blackflow> deathstars?  :)
<hays> i ordered the ultrastar replacement, put it in and within a few days another one bit the dust
<hays> yeah, that wasn't the best choice in drive
<hays> although the others have been running for a long time now
<blackflow> HGST are fine drives these days. if Backblaze stats are to be trusted.
<hays> i found a procedure to make a degraded array, but looks like you need to make a file the size of one of the disks, which is kind of a non-starter
<blackflow> hays: on freebsd? you can use the gnop
<hays> no this will be linux
<blackflow> on linux... not sure what to use for a sparse file
<blackflow> oh `truncate`
<hays> yeah im reading about it
<blackflow> trick being to remove it from the array right after zpool created it
<blackflow> zpool offline and zpool detach if I'm not mistaken
<hays> hah yes
<hays> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/322352/create-raid-z2-in-degraded-state-possible
<blackflow> right I guess no need to detach, offlining should suffice before 'replace'
<hays> man lga1150 i dunno i guess it was limited to 32gb.. there's nothing ecc out there in motherboards that goes pst that
<hays> wow, not even non-ecc
<blackflow> hays: what do you mean?  https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/X99E_WS/specifications/
<blackflow> and iX systems is selling 1TB RAM thingies, I'd have to look up the specs on that
<hays> yeah im talking socket 1150
<blackflow> oh
<hays> if i wanted to try to find a modo that woul take same ram/cpu
<hays> but im going to give it a shot
<hays> 10 tb and i think ill try raidz2
<tomreyn> "help!111 i have an issue here!!! but i wont tell you what it is!!!"
<BluesKaj> yeah, seems so
<tomreyn> we got two of them now ;)
<BluesKaj> I guess we're mind readers
<tomreyn> i'd respond to that, but you can just read my mind
<ducasse> evening!
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<hggdh> oerheks: sometimes it is simply not worth the time to correct someone
<oerheks> yes, but sometimes it is worth it :-D
<oerheks> i am in dubio
<oerheks> upgrading to 18.04 with 4 desktops, after that removing 3...
<daftykins> ?
<daftykins> a user is?
<oerheks> yes, messing up the system in ##linux, getting help in #u .. without details ofcourse, no, we like guessing
<daftykins> :(
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<oerheks> for rasp-pi freaks, sudo snap install rpipress-downloader  https://github.com/artivis/rpipress-downloader
<lotuspsychje> cool oerheks
<oerheks> follow https://twitter.com/snapstats_org on twitter to get the latest
<lotuspsychje> ah didnt know that1 yet
<lotuspsychje> just twitter/ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> would be nice if snap had a latest command from terminal
<lotuspsychje> i suggested it once but..
<oerheks> https://snapstats.org/
<oerheks> Verified developers, a total of 73 developers, have published 361 Snaps.
<lotuspsychje> snaps going wild
<oerheks> i like the ones who rant, because they heard *something*
<lotuspsychje> tnx oerheks added their rss at ##techrss
<oerheks> ah nice, that is surely welcome
<oerheks> spicing up marvin
<lotuspsychje> 6 latest snaps added
<DarkTrick> I would like to suggest a UI change. I wrote it up here: https://pastebin.com/Bj17Zuyp
<DarkTrick> Where would be the appropriate place to post it?
<daftykins> not a lot of context to that write-up
<DarkTrick> daftykins, it's probably improvable. I'm talking about the "Input Methods" result when search for "Keyboard"
<daftykins> but where...
<DarkTrick> daftykins, "All applications"
<daftykins> see how i have to ask many things to even pin down what you're talking about? not a good sign
<DarkTrick> daftykins, sure. So I improved it - I guess.
<Bashing-om>  UWN637 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue637 :D
<jeremy31> tomreyn:  roey also has a logitech dongle in lsusb twice, that bluetooth dongle should work fine without firmware as I have one with the same ID
<tomreyn> jeremy31: i see. did roey tell us which ubuntu version or kernel version they'Re running?
<tomreyn> right i see the logitech unify now
<jeremy31> tomreyn: I didn't see if he did.  Mine has worked fine in Ubuntu and Mint since 2014
<tomreyn> it's a system with USB 2.0 + 3.0 hubs apparently
<tomreyn> maybe just needs to hit the right port. or, as you suiggested, power issues.
<jeremy31> Might be too many devices on USB bus
<tomreyn> yes, could be. i just noticed roey has been looking for help with getting his bluetooth sound bar working for a while today.
<jeremy31> I haven't even tried bluetooth audio yet on Ubuntu 20.04, couldn't find my headset for a while
<tomreyn> i hardly ever use bluetooth anyways :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-30
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<DarkTrick> Questions regarding Unity and GNOME: I thought Ubuntu runs(?)/works on(?)/uses(?) Unity. But I it seems to have switched to GNOME. Did it indeed switch from Unity to GNOME?
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: 16.04 had unity as default, now it uses gnome by default
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: but you can still install unity desktop if you want, the project still lives
<DarkTrick> Installing Ubuntu 20.04, I don't see any difference to Unity from 16.04...
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: default the dock is placed left on gnome too, so you need to take a closer look to see the differences
<DarkTrick> lotuspsychje, thank you!
<DarkTrick> I found this https://askubuntu.com/questions/333237/difference-between-unity-and-gnome and should probably dig in there for now
<oerheks> unity desktop is still available and under development, also MIR <> Wayland
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> The demon!
<marcoagpinto> anyone greets the demon?
<marcoagpinto> There were hardware updates to install
<lotuspsychje> hardware updates?
<marcoagpinto> yes
<marcoagpinto> for Intel and Nvidia
<lotuspsychje> software updates for hardware chipsets :p
<marcoagpinto> yes
<marcoagpinto> that
<marcoagpinto> every week or two there are intel updates
<marcoagpinto> :)
<DarkTrick> Ubuntu 20.04: Under Settings -> Region & Language -> Settings button -> It's not possible to change the shortcut for input source change. Is there a specific reason Ubuntu removed the possibility to configure through GUI?
<marcoagpinto> "to cola go, where no cola has gone before"
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-01
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> the demon is back!
<oerheks>  ÉloÉ
<oerheks> interesting, https://snapcraft.io/bridge-designer
<marcoagpinto> oerheks!
<oerheks> marcoagpinto :-D
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<tomreyn> "Note: This Windows application runs on Linux using the Wine compatibility layer."
<oerheks> i said interesting, not great
<tomreyn> :)
<oerheks> there used to be a bridge building puzzle game
<tomreyn> i think it's called tetris
<tomreyn> at least when i play it, i build bridges there all the time
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-02
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> Hello
<marcoagpinto> >:)
 * lotuspsychje runs
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje!
<marcoagpinto> it is the little cola demon who has returned from the x-ray at the hospital
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> did they find a cola can inside? :p
<marcoagpinto> no, but at the entrance they checked my temperature and asked if I had any symptoms... I replied: "just post-tramautic stress"
<lotuspsychje> i drink ubuntu cola
<marcoagpinto> and I found there is a game called "cola demon"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I searched on Google
<marcoagpinto> tomreyn!
<marcoagpinto> you are still alive!
<marcoagpinto> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Katnip> guten tog
<ducasse> good morning
<speeder39_> Ui
<speeder39_> Hello I am new here. Do we discuss installing and setting up Ubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> speeder39_: just discuss about ubuntu here
<lotuspsychje> support in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> we try to keep things divided
<speeder39_> Ae is in the USA
<ubuntuuser1> speeder39_, have you decideed on a distro?
<ubuntuuser1> na let my support question linger, ill help him here
<speeder39_> Ubuntu distro
<speeder39_> ubuntuuser1: are you in the USA
<ubuntuuser1> yea
<ubuntuuser1> regular ubuntu?
<ubuntuuser1> have you downloaded it yet, and do you ave a usb?
<ubuntuuser1> what's your current os?
<ubuntuuser1> where you are doesn't matter though
<ubuntuuser1> ubuntu is legal everywhere afaik
<ubuntuuser1> just an operating system
<speeder39_> @ubuntuuser1: I have a USB, drive, will need to download. Do you have link for current Ubuntu distro
<lotuspsychje> !download
<speeder39_> Currently windows 10 os
<speeder39_> @lotuspsychje: are you in the USA
<lotuspsychje> Ubuntu installation CDs can be downloaded from http://releases.ubuntu.com - Mirrors can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors - PLEASE use the !torrents to download !Focal, and help keeping the servers' load low!
<lotuspsychje> speeder39_: you already asked me that
<speeder39_> Are you?
<lotuspsychje> speeder39_: scroll back
<speeder39_> Thanks lotuspsychje
<oerheks> coconut, :-D
<coconut> hey oerheks, do you have it all great today?
<oerheks> yes, sunny,windy, and 2 chihuahuas who want their walk
<oerheks> brb
<coconut> oh nice, two dogs
<coconut> anyone know some humor clips on youtube which has been on tv somewhere?
<coconut> first one from me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2G50CAO-1M
<coconut> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VREQLFFw_Po
<coconut> https://youtu.be/fFyCHQRK9hQ?list=PL1F8AE390D393574B
<coconut> https://youtu.be/_CQA3X-qNgA?list=PL1F8AE390D393574B
<daftykins> not sure that that's what we need in here
<coconut> daftykins, oops i thought i was in #ubuntu-offtopic
<daftykins> ;) crazy as a coconut!
<coconut> yeah yeah
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<tomreyn> !mtrr
<tomreyn> ah no factoids here, i forgot
<oerheks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirmwareTestSuite/Reference/mtrr
<tomreyn> oerheks: heh, you can look into my head apparently. i didn't know this page. but i think it's not adding more info.
<tomreyn> other than there is an MTRR test in the FWTS. but since Ubuntu's kernels' do the reposrting and debugging by default for years now, i guess that's not needed.
<oerheks> never came across mtrr myself ..
<tomreyn> i also sent the guy, adam, who wrote http://web.archive.org/web/20190120193152/http://my-fuzzy-logic.de/blog/index.php?/pages/impressum.html an e-mail asking whether i could repost it on github under CC-BY-SA (without NC)
<tomreyn> the article isn't perfect and a simple calculator would actually help a lot.
<tomreyn> actualyl this http://web.archive.org/web/20190904223631/http://my-fuzzy-logic.de/blog/index.php?/archives/41-Solving-linux-MTRR-problems.html
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-440/+bug/1870618
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
