#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-05
<highvoltage> anyone on this channel coming to the edubuntu summit?
<mdke> hello everyone
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> we can start in a few minutes
<mdke> 5 mins?
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> im still testing out this hula account
<mdke> aha
<jsgotangco> hno73: hey
<hno73> hello all :)
<jsgotangco> ok let's just wait the others in a minute or so
* mdke nods
<mgalvin> hi all
* froud waves
<squinn> hi al
<squinn> ll
<squinn> dah all*
<jsgotangco> alright lets start
* froud nods
<jsgotangco> ok this is the start of the regular meeting which will happen bi-weekly
<jsgotangco> to start of, let's introduce ourselves so we'll know who's here
<jsgotangco> -> Jerome Gotangco
<froud> Sean Wheller
* mgalvin Matt Galvin
* hno73 <- Henrik Nilsen Omma
<mdke> <-- matthew east
<jsgotangco> great any lurkers? :)
<jsgotangco> hmm i guess none, we're well represented anyways
<froud> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
<jsgotangco> that's our agenda for today
<jsgotangco> btw, this page will be always upated for the next meetings
<jsgotangco> alright we go straight to agenda #1
<jsgotangco> StyleGuide
<jsgotangco> hmmm jeffsch is still not here although i made sure i set the meeting with him in mind
<froud> Jeff is leading that, but is not present
<squinn> Okay.
<jsgotangco> yeah, but he said this was a good time for him anyway...
<mdke> come back to it when he arrives?
<jsgotangco> this is pretty much WIP at the moment and it needs love
<froud> no move on
<jsgotangco> the reason why we had to put this first in agenda is because we'll need consistency in the documents
<froud> yes people need to take a look and see if they can contribute to it
<froud> I can take the docbook section, pending decisions on this meeting
<jsgotangco> jeffsch actually asked me to look into some sections to contribute like writing for an international audience
<mdke> there is a lot of good material in the gnome guide for that
<mdke> i would suggest copying it
<jsgotangco> yes, jeffsch actually suggested it
<froud> also look a KDE Guide :-)
<jsgotangco> he has a good number of referrences on the doc
<mdke> yeah
<jsgotangco> but he hopes people who are currently contributing would also consider the contribution to the Style guide because we will all use it
<froud> so jsgotangco you will take the international audience aspect
<jsgotangco> froud: yup, i'll cover that
<froud> I will take the docbook aspect
<froud> what else is there
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide
<judax> greetings, sorry I am late
<froud> who are we following for Grammar and Spelling
<jsgotangco> i suggest people look into it and see what to contrribute
<froud> is it Chicago Manual of Style?
<squinn> <- Sean Quinn, oops sorry.
<jsgotangco> froud: i believe so, that's what jeffsch preferred if i remember
<froud> OK
<froud> so then those sections should be easy to complete
<jsgotangco> if the Style Guide is released in a few months, we can all adhere to it to our docs for breezy
<froud> just reference the CMS
<mdke> jsgotangco, +
<mdke> everyone should take the time to read it
<jsgotangco> completion of the Style Guide is a signicant accomplishment for the project itself
<jsgotangco> speaking of jeffsch
<jeffsch> howdy
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: we were just discussing styleguide
<froud> speak of the devil and he will appear
<squinn> yeah, welcome jeffsch..nice timing
<froud> jsgotangco: you want recap for jeffsch 
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: we just started with styleguide and who will tackle on the parts
<jsgotangco> i will look into international audience
<jsgotangco> froud will tackle docbook stuff
<jsgotangco> for grammar stuff, will we be using chicago manual?
<squinn> yes, i think so, jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> jeffsch?
<jeffsch> do we all have access to chicago?
<froud> jeffsch: are you ok with CMS
<froud> I do
<jsgotangco> im a bit familiar with it
<jeffsch> if we don't have access to it, then there's not much point specifying it
<froud> http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/
<squinn> froud, right.
<froud> http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.html
<froud> You can register to it and use it as a search
<froud> if you dont have a print copy
<jeffsch> yes, but that is not the whole manual
<jsgotangco> hmmm do we really need everyone to know CMS
<froud> jeffsch: no but what is there is good
<froud> http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/search.html
<froud> jsgotangco: no not realy
<froud> its mostly for resolving dispute
<squinn> oh, wow, they're about $35 for print
<froud> when ppl disagree CMS governs
<jsgotangco> ok so we let everyone work first in their own but we'll need a review period on docs for editorial stuff
<froud> yep
<jsgotangco> ok the question now is who would contribute in that particular section
<jsgotangco> (it is pretty crucial btw)
<froud> what spelling and grammar?
<froud> not me dude I stink in both these departments
<jsgotangco> anyone what to take a look at it at least?
<squinn> I could contribute a little bit to the StyleGuide.
<jsgotangco> if not we'll put it still in the open
<froud> jsgotangco: jeffsch is the lingo expert, but he did all the work
<squinn> But not in a lead.
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: are we talking about who does reviews, or who does styleguide?
<jsgotangco> well i can't do that either, english isn't my primary language
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: styleguide
<froud> jeffsch: grammar and spelling
<froud> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide/GrammarPunctuationSpelling
<jeffsch> people have signed up for "doc leads" on DocteamProjects....
<jeffsch> maybe they can take some responsibility
<froud> more, huh :-)
<squinn> Right.
<jsgotangco> ok i will review the other style guides and see what we can do
<jeffsch> one of the hazards of stepping forward, i guess :-)
<mgalvin> i speak english as my primary lang, I am sure I can at least help with some of that
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: great
<squinn> Again, I can contribute with StyleGuide
<froud> there you go :-)
<mdke> i can help review docs, but probably not work on Styleguide
<squinn> but I can't take StyleGuide in a lead position.
<squinn> Just as a contributer.
<jsgotangco> sure UK english sounds better IMO
<mdke> squinn, cotnributor is awesom
<mdke> jsgotangco, ++++++
<mdke> ;)
<jeffsch> ok great! so we have mgalvin, squinn, mdke woo hoo!
<froud> jsgotangco: UK en is rotten :-)
<jeffsch> did i miss anyone?
<mdke> jeffsch, i can't work on the styleguide
<mdke> but I will do review of docs based on what the styleguide says
<jeffsch> doh! i read too quickly...
<froud> cool
<squinn> hah i noticed that
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: i'll do the i18n
<jsgotangco> alright, StyleGuide seems to be back on track...
<jsgotangco> anything more on StyleGuide
<jsgotangco> ?
* mgalvin stepping away for a moment, will be back in a min
<jsgotangco> hmm not sure if i am lagged, but we'll move to #2
<jsgotangco> "Revisit Doc Planning"
<squinn> no lag jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hmmm who added this
<squinn> we're just quiet. 
<jeffsch> me
<mdke> jeffsch, perhaps you can outline what you mean briefly
<jsgotangco> i think jeffsch is suggesting each doc have a spec of sorts
<squinn> jeffsch, do you mean that every doc has a plan like the StyleGuide did?
<mdke> yeah, the thing for the styleguide looks incredibly professional
<jeffsch> we need to know who we are writing for, and the purpose of the doc
<mdke> would help newcomers
<squinn> mdke, I can agree with you there. Quite well done.
<jsgotangco> (its actually a good idea to have a spec of sorts)
<squinn> Oh, yeah.
<squinn> jeffsch, ++++
<froud> jsgotangco: this goes back to https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/content-specification.xml
<froud> and https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/information-plan.xml
<mdke> do we thing something brief like that of the Styleguide is a good idea? I give my +1
<jsgotangco> hmmm i haven't been reading the teamstuff in svn...
<jeffsch> froud: yes, the idea has been around for a while, but we have yet to do anything with it
<froud> It was an idea way back but got no support
<froud> snap
<jsgotangco> i'd give my vote on something like this
<mdke> i think something brief like has been done on the Styleguide is a good idea, anything more detailed might be more work than we can handle though
<jsgotangco> it gives a good idea on what to do for newcomers
<froud> I will do it for the Kubuntu docs
<jsgotangco> froud: ALL? :)
<froud> If I must
<mdke> can the persons who are taking charge of each doc take care of it?
<jsgotangco> i was thinking of what mdke just suggested
<mdke> i think that could be an important part of what that job involves
<jsgotangco> and use the style used in the StyleGuide
<froud> well I will open a docspec dir in kde
<mdke> along with maintaining the status and preview 
<froud> and put the files there
<froud> then people can take ownership
<jsgotangco> ok can we announce this on the list then for the specs for docs
<froud> but so far nobody but jjesse and I have reported ownership
<froud> for Kubuntu that is
<jeffsch> should the doc plan be only in svn? perhaps a wiki page for each doc
<mdke> i don't think svn is necessary actually, just wiki page
<squinn> jeffsch, + for wiki page for each doc
<jsgotangco> wiki too for me
<froud> I would like svn and html previews
<froud> at least for Kubuntu stuff
<jsgotangco> alright
<jsgotangco> so wiki it is, but froud will do stuff for Kubuntu
<mdke> html preview of what?
<mdke> of the document plan?
<froud> jsgotangco: all th ekubuntu stuff in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/information-plan.xml links to http://lnix.net/~froud
<judax> I have offered ownersip in Kubuntu area
<froud> judax great on what?
<judax> quickguide and can take more if needed
<jsgotangco> ok hold on this is getting too big
<jsgotangco> the proposal is do to a simple spec for docs
<froud> cool can you update on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
<froud> I see troy has some stuff too
<froud> jsgotangco: I think let the spec be what people want make it
<mdke> i would tend to agree with froud
<froud> if its short, so be it
<froud> if its long, so be it
<squinn> jsgotangco, I like froud's idea, +.
<mdke> with the minimum being something similar to the Styleguide plan
<froud> +1
<jsgotangco> right, so people who are doing docs, please consider making a spec and refer to the plan in StyleGuide
<squinn> Okay.
<jsgotangco> we cool in that then
<mdke> yeah
<jeffsch> +1, except change "please consider making" to "please make"
<mdke> let's increase our speed otherwise we won't get through the issues
<squinn> Yes, please, + mdke 
<jsgotangco> ok all people writing docs SHOULD MAKE one :)
<froud> ok for kubuntu you will find kde/docspecs
<froud> svn commit -m add docspec folder docspecs --non-interactive
<judax> +1
<jsgotangco> ok any more stuff on this, please send to list
<froud> kk
<jsgotangco> we'll go to #3 - format to ship
<jsgotangco> this is gonna be tough
* froud ducks
<mdke> i don't think it will be too bad
<jsgotangco> has anyone read froud's treatise? :)
<judax> aye
<squinn> okay, quick off-topic question..let's not make it a discussion..how can i get an html preview from my svn repo on my computer locally [~/ubuntu-doc/foo/bar]  to the web?
<squinn> jsgotangco, reading now
<froud> jsgotangco: there may be a simple solution
<jsgotangco> froud: please elaborate
<jsgotangco> (kubuntu is not an issue here btw)
<froud> let gnome do yelp xml
* mgalvin back
<froud> and kde we will do html
<froud> thatleaves only one problem
<jsgotangco> yes?
<froud> providing that gnome ppl are prepared to lose publishing features
<mdke> why would we do different things for gnome and kde?
<froud> then i see no problem
<froud> next problem would be the profiles
<mdke> hang on
<froud> yelp wont like them
<jsgotangco> they wont
<froud> mdke: status quo
<hno73> what do you mean by publishing features?
<squinn> hold on
<hno73> indexes etc?
<froud> yes
<squinn> <xref> i think
<mdke> don't move to profiling yet pls froud, we can deal with it next issue
<froud> hno73: yes
<squinn> speaking of xref, shaunm over at gnome-doc-utils says next release is around the corner
<froud> k
<mdke> let's focus
<squinn> that will fix endterm
<froud> squinn: yes
<jsgotangco> ok give me a few minutes brb
<froud> ppl I proposed the html route to enable certain features and functions
<froud> and b'cause I thought we could take advantage of them
<mdke> what are the disadvantages of html?
<froud> but if it makes life difficult then let's side step it
<mdke> does yelp support it properly?
<froud> mdke: ye
<mdke> so what are the disadvantages?
<froud> mdke: none
<mdke> advantages would be that we can publish the same files in ubuntu-doc package AND online
<froud> mdke: yes
<mdke> does any one see disadvantages?
<froud> and custom style as we wish
<hno73> How do we link pages together (ie navigation)
<squinn> yep, which is kind of nice
<hno73> Yelp has some side bar system
<squinn> yes
<hno73> we need to code that in HTML
<squinn> hno73, sidebar seems to be disable for HTML
<froud> hno73: you mean the toc
<squinn> but i just checked about ubuntu hold on
<hno73> not just toc, but generally how the user navigates around the docs
<hno73> forward back and sideways
<froud> chunked html provides GRUB
<froud> next prev, home
<hno73> Look at this: http://www.theopencd.org/files/beta/4/en/firefox_desc.html
<hno73> Side menu and tabs that we might use
<froud> ok
<jsgotangco> back
<hno73> next prev, home can be added too
<froud> chunk output adds it by default
<mdke> sounds good
<hno73> do you have link to chunk?
<froud> http://lnix.net/~froud/kubuntu-install/C/index.html
<hno73> ok, thanks
<froud> we can decide whether or not to suppress the meta
<hno73> right
<jsgotangco> will HTML be more acceptable then for GNOME
<froud> CSS can do most of the work
<squinn> right
<squinn> and yeah, userguide comes out in chunk output
<froud> in hoary we did ship html versions, they were just not used
<squinn> here's my question
<squinn> do we still edit in xml?
<froud> yes
<squinn> and then make qg/ug/html ?
<jsgotangco> squinn: of course, its our source
<froud> see kde/Makefile
<mdke> froud, that html looks great
<squinn> ah, that's true, jsgotangco 
<froud> with pwd kde do make kall
<mdke> needs a bit of ubuntu bling tho
<squinn> mdke, a logo here and there
<froud> mdke: it uses kde help:/common/kde-default.css with the kio-ioslave
<mdke> we can use the ubuntu css
<hno73> squinn: a bit more
<hno73> mdke: yes
<mdke> henrik you can sort that?
<froud> mdke: on a kubuntu system it looks like kde docs do
<mdke> cool
<hno73> mdke: yes, let me look at the chunk build process
<jsgotangco> it seems we're sold on HTML>
<jeffsch> if we decide on html output for gnome, then how does that change the packaging process?
<jsgotangco> good question
<mdke> yep
<mdke> what problems are we likely to have with -devel?
<froud> jeffsch: it does not
<hno73> who packages the docs ATM?
<mdke> hno73, its kind of improvised
<froud> enrico
<jsgotangco> (enrico's pretty much active btw, helping out in the sidelines)
<froud> yes, bless his cotton socks
<hno73> mdke: let's try to catch mdz tomorrow and get clarity on that process
<froud> ppl this is a tradeoff decision
<squinn> i'll be right back
<hno73> including timing
<froud> hno73: enrico is whitelisted
<squinn> hno73, who's mdz?
<froud> he packages and uploads
<jsgotangco> squinn: Matt Zimmerman
<squinn> thought so
<squinn> just wasn't sure
<hno73> squinn: Ubuntu lead developer
<mdke> hno73, is he in london?
<hno73> I still want to ask him about the timeframe
<hno73> mdke: yes for a few days
<froud> hno73: for Kubuntu, uniq is building debian/
<jsgotangco> ok 
<froud> we should have regular deb builds for kubuntu in a few days
<jsgotangco> we're taking a chunk here
<jsgotangco> ok so what's the consensus on this issue
<mdke> i am attracted to the html idea
<judax> +1 html
<mgalvin> +1 html
<hno73> I'd like to see HTML for both GNOME and KDE
<hno73> simpler that way
<jsgotangco> mdke: take advantage on the edubuntu summit and catch some people to discuss the issue
<froud> please note that this applies only to ununtu-docs not any gnome doc that happens to get developed in our svn
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> good point
<froud> those docs must conform to gnome
<mdke> jsgotangco, ok i'll try
<froud> because the move upstream
<mdke> what gnome docs are worked on in our svn?
<jsgotangco> is a long road ahead? *grin*
<froud> for example in hoary I did ubuntu-update manager and ubuntu-device database
<jsgotangco> OK so what's the consensus....
<froud> there may be gnome apps developed at ubuntu but not upstream yet, we can do those docs in svn
<squinn> +1 html
<hno73> HTML with some added bling
<mdke> cool
<jeffsch> +1 html, plus look at getting a sidebar
<mdke> told you it would be easy
<jsgotangco> great...
<mdke> we can put the decision to the TB soon
<jsgotangco> right so we're solid on HTML
<mdke> its cool to keep them in touch with what we're doing
<hno73> mdke: +1
<jsgotangco> right that's why we're going to have regular meetings from now on
<jsgotangco> alright where are we
<jsgotangco> #4 Document Profiling
<froud> shall I
<jsgotangco> surre
<froud> the idea is just a time saver for us
<froud> if we use html we will not have a problem
<froud> it basically means that we can develop two or more books in one XML-instance
<squinn> yep, +1 froud 
<froud> example Installation Guide
<froud> http://lnix.net/~froud/kubuntu-install/C/index.html
<froud> There is an Ubuntu version in the same file
<froud> but you only see here the Kubuntu version
<squinn> What do you mean by profiling?
<froud> at present I have used the os attribute
<squinn> Basically copy/paste, but change ubuntu to kubuntu or edubuntu?
<mdke> squinn, you voted first and then asked what it is?
<jsgotangco> so when you make the html output you specified kde/gnome, etc?
<froud> hold let me get an src example
<mdke> the concern I have with profiling is that it may increase the entry level for new users, who will have to learn how to do it
<mdke> (as I said on the mailing list)
<mdke> i see that it will save time but it will result in complex docs
<jeffsch> and also, how to decide what gets profiled. what are the criteria?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jeffsch> is it only os the gets profiled?
<froud> ok here is an example
<froud> <abstract>
<froud> 			<para>This provides instruction for the installation of <phrase os="gnome">Ubuntu</phrase>
<froud> 				<phrase os="kde">Kubuntu</phrase> from installation CD-ROM media for the
<froud> 				&distro-version; release.</para>
<froud> 		</abstract>
<froud> notice the <phrase os="kde">
<squinn> mdke, no, i was agreeing with the html > xml profiling
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<squinn> mdke, i have a basic idea
<froud> and the <phrase os="gnome">
<froud> at time of converting to HTML
<jsgotangco> it seems profiling can only happen in specific docs like an install guide
<froud> we pass the profile.os param to the stylesheets
<jsgotangco> but not on a useguide or a quickguide
<froud> if it = gnome we get a gnome version
<mdke> i would be pretty reluctant to profile on OS on the userguide
<froud> jsgotangco: it is a selective application
<squinn> I'll be right back.
<froud> not recomended for all books
<jeffsch> how much trouble is it to stop profiling once it has started? 
<froud> jeffsch: transform the profile to xml
<hno73> It might also make us tempted to write things in too general a form when there really are differences
<froud> and commit that instance
<mdke> hno73, *nods*
<hno73> to make it fit both 
<froud> hno73: agreed it does change writing style
<mdke> but the main problem i have is that it means that new users, who already find it difficult to get to grips with xml, have another problem
<jsgotangco> froud: would it be possible to elaborate on the list on the profiling and what docs are good candidates are?
<hno73> and bring it up again at the next meeting
<froud> all docs that are candidates are already profiles
<jsgotangco> right
<mdke> we should get it decided ASAP tho
<mdke> the issue has been out there for a while
<mdke> i think the pros and cons are quite simple
<froud> mdke: if its gonna be a long one, then I will just export the profiles out, essentially splitting them
<jeffsch> how about we just go with "what's done is done" - the currently profiled docs are profiled, others won't be
<jeffsch> and see how it goes
<froud> It only really impacts install and faq
<mdke> i'm still -1 right now
<jsgotangco> hmmm so its not too big then at the moment, but it will come out soon for sure
<froud> the advantage is that when we for example develop the install guide for the graphical installer we are actually doing two books in one shot
<jsgotangco> ok so it seems only 2 books for now are affected by profiling
<froud> 90% of the install guide is comon to kde and gnome
<mdke> yeah the advantages are obvious
<froud> no need to duplicate it
<mgalvin> i have started working on the faq and find that learning and using profiles has not been painful, yet ;)
<mdke> but I'm still -1 :p
<jsgotangco> froud: it's a good idea to bring this up again on the list and we be specific on the books affected
<mdke> mgalvin, ah that is good to know!
<froud> profiling is easy
<jsgotangco> OK so profiling is not so bad as it seems
<froud> really
<jsgotangco> thats good to hea
<jsgotangco> ok so whats the action plan on this issue
<froud> we have three of four ppl who are already using them
<mdke> if we document it well on the wiki pages, that would help lessen the pain for me ;)
<froud> it is documented
<jsgotangco> any AR on Profiling...
<froud> ppl must please read http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/index.html
<froud> please, please, pretty please :-)
<jsgotangco> ok shall we move on..profiling seems pretty covered now
<mdke> froud, its totally out of order to ask new contributors to read that document
<hno73> It's just 29 chapters
<jsgotangco> gyahaha
<hno73> oh, and 2 apendecies
<hno73> :)
<mdke> its like closing off the team totally to new persons
<froud> Ok I will make it easier for you http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html
<hno73> Maybe next week
<mdke> like, "you can only be in this team if you are a docbook expert"
<mdke> that is not what we want IMO
<mdke> because then we'll end up with just froud ;)
<froud> mdke: if people what to understand th epossabilities all I am saying is it is documented
<froud> no need to ducment it again
<jsgotangco> OK so there is still a question on profiling and it needs more explanation....
<mdke> froud, if we implement profiling, it must be documented for new users on the wiki IMHO
* froud must do school run be back in 5
<mdke> in a simple and accessible way
<jsgotangco> OK
<jsgotangco> hold it
<jsgotangco> there is no concrete team decision on profiling then
<jeffsch> i like my idea plus mdke's idea
<jsgotangco> so we'll put it up again on the next meeting is that good?
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> so that's it for profiling then...
<mdke> jeffsch, i'm still -1 on profiling ;)
<hno73> docteam.u.c
<jsgotangco> #5 docteam.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> ok this is pretty basic for now
<jeffsch> mdke: bad wolf :)
<jsgotangco> we just need to upload stuff
<mdke> heh
<jsgotangco> we tried to do this before in the svn but it seems to strip the mime types
<hno73> I spoke with elmo today and we are moving forward on this
<mdke> oh good
<jsgotangco> that's great
<hno73> We'll likely get our own space here: http://www.linode.com/
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<jsgotangco> the loco teams are moving to vps in linode as well
<hno73> We can have static pages, upload areas, wikis, whatever
<mdke> wwill it be easy to script uploads of the html preview and status pages of our documents to that server?
<hno73> yeah and MOTUs
<jsgotangco> mdke: we can actually move our svn on linode
<hno73> they're trying to make it one large bulk deal
<mdke> right
<hno73> to get a better price
<mdke> what is the timeframe on that?
<hno73> a weekish?
<jsgotangco> hopefully in july
<jsgotangco> i've talked to smurfix about it
<squinn> good to hear
<mdke> yes good news
<hno73> early in July, I'm sure
<squinn> will this take our previews off of mako's space then?
<squinn> and move them onto our own subdomain?
<jsgotangco> the loco teams have requested their linode requirements
<mdke> does the same apply for help.ubuntu.com? for published docs on release?
<jsgotangco> mdke: its possible
<hno73> So, who has any box admin experience? :)
<mdke> jsgotangco, i don't think we needs to worry abnout locoteams here
<jsgotangco> mdke: we'll have root access on it
<squinn> hno73, not I
<mdke> hno73, you?
<hno73> mdke: I've done it, but I'm still a cluts at it
<jsgotangco> same herre
<jsgotangco> i've deployed ubuntu servers, but cannot say i am an expert
<mdke> me neither
<hno73> I can do it it if I have a good sidekick or two :)
<mdke> i like henrik for the job :D
<jsgotangco> i can help henrik
<mdke> ok i can try and help
<hno73> jsgotangco: thanks
<mdke> what is needed?
<jeffsch> i can help too, but am far from expert
<jsgotangco> ok let's pig out on PHP and JAVA on that server :D
<judax> haha
<mdke> ?
<jsgotangco> kidding
<mdke> we just need some basic stuff for those projects, then if you want to develop other projects, that's cool too
<jsgotangco> ok so docteam.u.c is on track
<hno73> I know nothing about Java, PHP is ok
<jsgotangco> mdke: yeah, that makes the linode stuff so flexible for us
<mdke> can't help.ubuntu.com be on the ubuntu webserver?
<mdke> (support tab on the website)
<hno73> mdke: I think it should be, yes
<mdke> yay
<mdke> this is the best meeting ever
<jsgotangco> yeah its frozen doc anyways
<mdke> yep
<hno73> we can put stuff in a staging area on docteam.u.c and then pull it into help.u.c
<jsgotangco> alright, so we're sold on #5 then.
<hno73> yepp
<mdke> :)
<froud> jsgotangco: you really want to move svn :-0
<froud> jsgotangco: I suggest against it
<squinn> so lemme get this straight
<hno73> froud: let's move to baz
* hno73 ducs
<jsgotangco> baz
* jsgotangco hides
<hno73> duks even
<froud> yes lets
<squinn> docteam.u.c is kind of our "testing" area
<squinn> and help.u.c is our 'finished' area
<hno73> squinn: right
<jsgotangco> squinn: right
<froud> jsgotangco: dontmove svn
<squinn> okay great
<froud> jsgotangco: it means everyone must redo kets etc
<froud> s/kets/keys
<jsgotangco> froud: right, it was just mentioned
<hno73> do we even need keybased auth on the linode system?
<froud> no
<froud> we dont
<mdke> it would help to move svn too
<hno73> but if we break it we get to keep both parts
<froud> why
<mdke> froud, because the website we've talked about will be there
<hno73> so we can admin our own commit rights
<mdke> that too
<froud> hno73: all we need for starters is an svn checkout and build on the linode
<jsgotangco> i'm not in favor of moving svn right now, this needs planning
<mdke> obviously planning is needed
<hno73> jsgotangco: agree
<squinn> i'm confused..
<froud> dudes all we need for now is like what I have on lnix.net/~froud
<jsgotangco> actually, we shouldn't even plan on moving our svn, but instead migrate our svn to baz
* jsgotangco ducks
<jeffsch> maybe use baz on the linode machine, and gradually move docs over
<mdke> ok we're done on this issue
<squinn> baz = bazaar?
<hno73> jsgotangco: I agree, seriously
<froud> I think we tend to bring in wiki and all that stuff an djust complicate what is really a simple matter
<mdke> let's move on or jsgotangco 's wife will kill him
<squinn> seconded
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> ok no svn movements
<hno73> point #6
<squinn> so keep svn as-is?
<hno73> jsgotangco: not yet anyway
<jsgotangco> squinn: yep...as is
<hno73> let's review it in 4 weeks
<mdke> next issue
<squinn> UDP Wiki Team.
<jsgotangco> squinn: but the road to baz is in the hoizon
<squinn> and again, baz is bazaar, right?
<jsgotangco> Wiki team
<jsgotangco> squinn: yep
<froud> I say no baz go to baz-ng
<squinn> ah, cool, alright.
<mdke> pls
<mdke> on topic!
<hno73> froud: 4 weeks :)
<jsgotangco> ok the baz thing is a separate meeting
<squinn> right.
<jsgotangco> #6 wiki team
<squinn> let's get to Wiki Team
<hno73> wiki team
<jsgotangco> this ws proposed way long beforre
<jsgotangco> but the team back then was so small
* froud steps out for a minute
<mdke> ok we have some volunteers for this now
<jsgotangco> but since we're growing, people have been talking about it again
<jeffsch> i'm all for wiki team, but let's get our own wiki pages in order first
<mdke> jeffsch, that could be a good job for the team
<jsgotangco> good idea, clean up our own home first
<squinn> +1 with that idea, jeffsch 
<jeffsch> i went ahead and rewrote DocumentationTeam
<mdke> ok hno73, views?
<squinn> I'd also help work with the WikiTeam after we cleanup.
<jsgotangco> i can't speak much on the wiki team since i'm not that much of a wiki person btw
<jsgotangco> (im a mediawiki fan btw)
<hno73> Cleaning the wiki is good, but we should watch other people's toes
<hno73> docteam != wiki
<hno73> But we can go out in front with examples of good practice
<jsgotangco> who has sysop priv on the moin wiki atm?
<jsgotangco> hmm does moin have sysop btw
<jeffsch> hno73: yes
<hno73> jsgotangco: in what sense?
<jsgotangco> hno73: like in mediawiki sysop account
<hno73> elmo admins the server and I look after themes and such
<hno73> jsgotangco: hm, yeah I need to set one up 
<jsgotangco> (not really that familiar with moin except i like its table syntax)
<hno73> so that will be me then
<mdke> what I had in mind was a group of people to do specific jobs (like fix the icons) and generally edit the wiki to keep it tidy
<squinn> jsgotangco, i'm a mediawiki fan too
<jdub> jsgotangco: only if you set up and use ACLs and so on
<mdke> grrr
<mdke> on topic! squinn, jsgotangco, no need to talk about mediawiki
<jsgotangco> jdub: hey, welcome
<hno73> jdub: exxactly
<squinn> ahh, sorry.
<hno73> we need to set up some people with ACL admin right
<mdke> how come?
<hno73> there are none ATM, AFAIK
<jsgotangco> i'd happily vote mdke for that
<mdke> is there a need for them?
<squinn> acl = Access control list?
<hno73> mdke: I think it might be good to restrict deleting and reverting, at least on some pages
<jsgotangco> mdke: you can lock pages for one
<hno73> squinn: yes
<squinn> ok
<mdke> hno73, i agree that deleting could be locked down yeah
<hno73> jsgotangco: which is a bit drastic
<jsgotangco> mdke: how big do you think a wiki team should be?
<squinn> but protecting pages by keeping them as is may be necessary
<hno73> and once you enable admin, then that has to be locked down
<mdke> jsgotangco, if we're just talking about editing and cleaning, i think it can be as big as possible
<jsgotangco> to be honest, i can't connect docteam work right now with wiki work
<hno73> squinn: what do you mean?
<mdke> jsgotangco, if we're talking about access levels, I have no idea
<mdke> squinn, its a wiki dude
* froud is not involved with wiki, so excuses himself
<mdke> ok bye froud, thanks
<squinn> sorry, i'm just trying to relate from what i know from wikipedia to ubuntu's wiki
<jsgotangco> i think a good start for the wiki team is to have a best practices page for one
<squinn> i know there's significant differences, but i'm trying to see similarities
<mdke> squinn, no need to close pages, otherwise it wouldn't be a wiki
<hno73> we have less flamers and sockpuppets here :)
<hno73> so far :)
<squinn> oh so true, hno73 
<squinn> i know.
<hno73> OK, but back to the gardening aspect
<mdke> ok lets get back to the idea of a team
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> go on
<mdke> hno73, shoot
<hno73> should they have some goals, or style guide?
<mdke> i don't know, the reason I thought of them was just for specific jobs, like tidy up categories and fix icons
<jsgotangco> how about making wiki template>
<jsgotangco> moin is incredibly good on templates
<hno73> 1. removing extra headings 2. fixing broken icons 3. moving chatter to /talk pages
<mdke> yes
<mdke> and the pages need more linking
<hno73> ok
<hno73> TOC pages
<mdke> yep
<jsgotangco> ok i think this can be elaborated on the list
<hno73> or TOCs in long pages even
<mdke> hno73, would you be prepared to head up the team?
<jsgotangco> but so far, a wiki team has been favored
<mdke> if a head is needed
<mdke> volunteers so far are myself, phillip cain and robitaille
<hno73> mdke: I'm reluctant to dive too much into the content as such
<mdke> content?
<hno73> yeah, you guys are much better at this stuff
<jsgotangco> mdke: i suggest you start up the team with no leader atm but with a goal that the members adopt
<mdke> content of what?
<hno73> mdke: as in the stuff stored in the wiki (content in the data sense)
<jsgotangco> that way, this subproject can move
<hno73> as opposed to the wiki code
<mdke> hno73, oh i don't think that editing the content of docs would be up to this team
<mdke> that is for everyone :D
<jsgotangco> wiki janitors?
<hno73> I'm happy to take feature requests for structural wiki improvements though
<hno73> here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/wiki/FeatureRequests
<jsgotangco> alright
<mdke> okies
<jsgotangco> im about to crash can we move this on the list
<mdke> hno73, you have to explain to me sometime what you have in mind for subpages
<mdke> jsgotangco, o
<mdke> k
<hno73> ok, ask me tomorrow :)
<jsgotangco> the wiki team is a great idea btw,
<mdke> hno73, what time are you around?
<jsgotangco> i would suggest to move with it even if therre is no clear goal/vision for this team
<jsgotangco> yet
<hno73> mdke: from 9 (depending on traffic) til 5-6
<hno73> so, all day
<mdke> jsgotangco, cool, thanks
<jsgotangco> ok....
<hno73> jsgotangco: agree
<jsgotangco> hmmm yeah, the other stuff to follow up
<jsgotangco> jdub is here maybe we can bug him
<squinn> yeah, again, i'd help you guys out on a clean-up status
<squinn> as a member of the team or not
<jsgotangco> upstream docs....
<mdke> cool thanks squinn 
<jsgotangco> jdub: around?
<jdub> yeah
<jsgotangco> jdub: right, on the upstream docs thing...you said a while back you were going to send an email on the list...
<jsgotangco> Jeff (jdub) proposed that more can be done to harness the documentation coming from upstream in the source packages. He said the level of technical expertise necessary to do this would not be too high. Mark agreed, stating that it was important to exploit the low hanging fruit ;) Jeff agreed to follow this up on the mailing list to set out his proposals. Although he will not be able to head up the project due to time constraint
<jdub> mmm, not exclusively about that though; i just haven't had time to finish and send it
<mdke> the elusive email!
<jdub> well, there's two sides to it
<mdke> its attaining mythical status now
<mdke> :)
<jdub> there's documentation already in the distro
<jdub> and working with upstream documentation (modifications)
<jsgotangco> documentation in distro meaning ubuntu-specific docs
<jdub> no, quite the opposite
<mdke> packaged docs from upstream
<jdub> the documentation that comes in all the packages in the distro
<jsgotangco> oh ok
<jsgotangco> what can be our first steps into these territories?
<jdub> so, what can i help with here?
<jdub> ah
<mdke> we have absolutely no idea how to use these docs
<jdub> ok, so i think the second point - modifying upstream docs - is a medium term goal we can address fuerhter down the track when we have elite soyuz/baz love
<jdub> but it's the first that's really interesting right now
<jdub> there is an *enormous* amount of documentation already in ubuntu
<jdub> it's just hidden away
<jsgotangco> hmmm this would probably need some skills
<mdke> jdub, that is what you said before, and its obviously true, but we are waiting to find out what we can do with it
<jdub> we made a very cheap improvement early on, but registering debian docs with scrollkeeper
<jdub> but that was a no-analysis easy fix :)
<jsgotangco> ok what can we do in this area then
<jsgotangco> this would obviously need some packaging skills
<jdub> not really
<jdub> the first step is looking for what we have already
<jdub> and that's easy - poking around in packages to see what's there, and noting it down somehow
<jdub> to a certain extent, we can automate this
<jdub> most docs will turn up in /usr/share/doc
<jsgotangco> yeah i've dug it some time ago
<jsgotangco> when i was investigating the scrollkeeper actions
<jdub> so we could check the contents of every package for files under /usr/share/doc - that's pretty cheap
<jdub> concentrate on main for the time being, so we can have solid impact and a small set to learn from
<jsgotangco> jdub, how about the outdated gnome docs
<jdub> in what regard?
<jsgotangco> well from what i understand on the first issue, is that its all about putting those docs altogether and making a sense of it on the viewer
<jdub> 1. finding existing documentation
<jdub> 2. documenting what we find
<jdub> 3. ensure it's registered with existing systems
<jdub> 4. start looking upstream to see if we can integrate better (by shipping docbook, translating source documentation formats, etc)
<jdub> (4) is going to get interesting; we could make a big impact on upstream doing that :)
<jsgotangco> hmm this is something i wanted to do before
<jsgotangco> ok at least we now know what needs to be done
<mdke> i don't
<jdub> so what was the q about gnome docs?
<mdke> 3. is the one we don't know how to do
<jsgotangco> oh, 3. is pretty easy to figure out
<mdke> ok
<jdub> mdke: well, it's pretty simple with scrollkeeper, if we do it that way; but the bulk of the work is going to be finding and documenting where the docs are
<mdke> ok
<jdub> and what we can do with them
<jsgotangco> 2. is the bulk of work actually
<jdub> like, we'll deal with developer docs differently
<jdub> (for instance, our changes to python packages to include devhelp files)
<jdub> looking at the package list for -doc packages is a cheap'n'easy start ;)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> well on my part, at least i know the priorities (of sort)
<jdub> starting with main only will avoid being overwhelmed
<jsgotangco> jdub: we'll just expect your email when you finish it :)
<jsgotangco> but the 4 points is a good start (on main)
<jdub> yeah... :|
<jsgotangco> jdub: thanks, anything more to add, i appreciate you being here despite your time
<jdub> jsgotangco: maybe start with a few example packages to get a workflow going
<jsgotangco> are you in sydney anways
<jdub> yeah, it's 2am
<jsgotangco> yeah i appreaciate it
<jsgotangco> OK, we've pretty much covered everything in the Agenda
<jsgotangco> Not bad for a 1st regular meeting i'd say
<jsgotangco> we've covered a lot
<jsgotangco> hmmm who's still in here anyway
<judax> :)
<mdke> still around
* jeffsch zzzzzzzzz
<jsgotangco> Anything else to discuss?
<mdke> thanks for staying around jdub
* hno73 is here
<jsgotangco> ok one morre thing
<jsgotangco> we'll do this meeting bi-weekly
<jsgotangco> so next meeting in 2 weeks!
<mdke> cough
<mdke> biweekly no
<jsgotangco> why?
<mdke> doesn't that mean twice a week?
<jsgotangco> NO
<mdke> my bad ;)
<jsgotangco> it means every two weeks
<mdke> ok cool
<judax> biweekly sounds good
<mdke> this was a great meeting
<jsgotangco> ok how about the time
<jsgotangco> i like 14UTC and 22UTC
<jdub> *cough* the time sucks! *cough* ;-)   [ignore me] 
<jsgotangco> we'll rotate in them
<mdke> i'm easy
<hno73> I prefer 14 UTC, but 22 UTC can work
<judax> both of those are good for me
<jsgotangco> great
<jsgotangco> alright, anything more
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda will be our agenda page from now on
<jsgotangco> Next meeting in 2 weeks, 22UTC
<judax> take care all
<jsgotangco> Meeting minutes will be sent to the list in a few hours after i wake up
<mdke> awesome meeting guys
<jsgotangco> great
<mdke> rockin
<jeffsch> excellent
<jsgotangco> ok im gonna crash
<jeffsch> cya
<jsgotangco> ok bye
<hno73> bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-06
<Kinnison> Hi
<pitti> I sent a mail to Scott, maybe he will read them in the next minutes
<pitti> otherwise we just tell him we do the stuff in dpkg and he's supposed to implement it :)
<infinity> I'll be here in 7 minutes.  Just finishing up some dinner.
<infinity> (And I don't think assigning work to Scott that he objects to will fly, so hopefully he shows up to defend his position)
<elmo> where's the spec?
<elmo> pitti: have you talked to him before about this meeting? I can ring him, if it's important
<pitti> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AuxiliaryBuildFiles
<pitti> elmo: not in depth, I intended to talk together here
<pitti> yeah, a phone ping would rock
<elmo> meh, we have too many wikis
<pitti> well, somebody suggested that existing changes files can be used for our purpose
<infinity> Easily.  katie just needs to know what to do with an uploaded package_version.lang file that's mentioned in a .changes.
<elmo> no response on his landline, guess he's asleep/busy elsewhere
<infinity> But how we get those files (a debhelper hack is lame, since not all packages have to use debhelper) is where Scott comes in.
<infinity> But we can do this in two stages, only discussing the .changes/archive side for now, since elmo and Kinnison are the important parties for that.
<pitti> fine for me
<elmo> infinity: vast majority of packages use debhelper tho
<pitti> I can discuss the hook place with Scott
<elmo> infinity: and the advantage is it's transparent; having to add per-rules files hack is ugly
<pitti> so far debhelper is a reasonably good solution IMHO
<infinity> elmo : Yes, but it's still the incorrect place to be stripping files out, technically.
<pitti> just Joey Hess doesn't like it
<pitti> and mdz asked me to remove it from debhelper
<elmo> either ubuntu carries a maintenance burden or it gets merged into debian as a ugly no-op
<infinity> elmo : having it in dpkg-deb with a hook is more correct, in my mind.
<elmo> pitti: did he say why?
<elmo> either of them, in fact
<pitti> elmo: not really, because it's "ugly"
<Kamion> joeyh certainly did
<Kamion> on debian-devel
<pitti> he favors sbuild, I think
<pitti> but hooking in sbuild is really hard, I guess
<elmo> the whole "what if someone else calls something pkgtripstranlations" joke?
<Kamion> but it's somewhere in the enormous Ubuntu-is-evil thread of death
<elmo> or something more substantial?
<pitti> infinity: would it be possible at all to define hooks in sbuild
<Kamion> to be fair, it *is* a foul hack :-)
<pitti> Kinnison: .. or in the launchpad infrastructure?
<pitti> We need hooks after preparing debian/PACKAGE, but before actually building debs
<elmo> hooking in sbuild is REALLY WRONG
<elmo> or launchpad or whatever
<elmo> bah phone, brb
<pitti> elmo: that's my feeling, too
* pitti hopes Scott is phoning :-)
<pitti> I asked Scott about a dpkg hook, but he felt it was wrong, too
<infinity> The higher level it is, the worse it is.
<infinity> debhelper is a compromise because we can't/won't put it in dpkg-deb, where it (IMO) belongs.
<pitti> infinity: the reverse conclusion would be that sbuild is the right place?
<infinity> And as for the Debian case, one of my motivations for this is to make it elegant enough to use in Debian as well, should that time come.
<pitti> infinity: does sbuild have control about the build process at all?
<infinity> No.
<infinity> It calls dpkg-buildpackage.
<pitti> that's what I expected
<infinity> And that shouldn't change.
<Kinnison> Putting it into sbuild feels wrong to me
<Kamion> did we ever discuss doing DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=striptranslations or similar?
<Kamion> that's sort of an established mechanism
<pitti> Hi seb128_ 
<seb128_> hey :)
<pitti> Kamion: sounds fine, too
<pitti> Kamion: however, it should be a bit more generic
<Kamion> it would certainly be better than "if you happen to install this package, translations go bye-bye" which is the current situation
<pitti> DEB_PREDEB=/usr/bin/pkgstriptranslations?
<Kamion> pitti: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS is generic, you just allocate a variable for each. I don't like putting commands in there
<pitti> DEB_POSTBUILD=... and so on?
<Kamion> er s/variable/name/
<pitti> hm, but D_B_O is only evaluated in debian/rules, not in dpkg, right?
<Kamion> yes
<pitti> so wouldn't that still require a debhelper hack?
<infinity> D_B_O is wrong, wrong.
<Kamion> dpkg-dev could inspect it
<Kamion> infinity: why?
<infinity> dpkg-dev doesn't currently touch D_B_O
<Kamion> true
<infinity> But, okay.  I'm all for making it do so.
<Kamion> I suppose it ought to be a different name
<infinity> I thought we were looking at the "evaluate it in debian/rules" option.
* pitti still favors /etc/dpkg/predeb.d hooks
<infinity> And, yeah, since debian/rules currently "owns" that variable, people could be unsetting it or doing other insane things to it.
<infinity> So we can't count on it being sane.
<infinity> But however that happens, I still see dpkg-deb as the correct place to do the actual stripping.
<infinity> Whether with a config file, a variable, or whatever.
<Kamion> pitti: I still don't like the "install random package and build behaviour totally changes" thing - I'd rather have it be at least controlled by an environment variable so that you have to explicitly request it
<infinity> But, since the man who will argue vehemently against that isn't here, perhaps we should be talking about the archive. :)
<Kamion> and then put that into our buildd configuration
<pitti> Kamion: you currently have to explicitly enable pkgstriptranslations in a conffile (default off)
<infinity> elmo : DO you have any qualms about dealing with in-band uploads of foo.lang files in katie?
<Kamion> pitti: well, ok
<infinity> Kinnison : And you replicating said functionality in soyuz?
<pitti> ok, let's defer the hook discussion
<pitti> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AuxiliaryBuildFiles still mentions a separete changes file
<pitti> infinity: so we can put "not for the archive" files into the normal .changes?
<Kinnison> infinity: I'd rather see the translations come in the same .changes file
<infinity> pitti : Of course we can.
<infinity> Kinnison : Yes, I meant in the same .changes.  THe same as by-hand stuff is currently done.
* Kinnison nods
<pitti> nice
<elmo> infinity: come in .changes, and katie does what with them ?
<Kinnison> That's how I'd prefer to absorb it
<infinity> Kinnison : SO a binary .changes would have foo.deb and foo.lang, or whatever.
<elmo> and what form are they coming in?
<pitti> infinity: is there already an interface for that?
<elmo> is this a replacement for the existing .debs?
<pitti> dpkg-*addfile or whatever?
<elmo> oir a replacement for the hacktastic system lamont put in place to get the tarballs to rosetta/pitti/whatever?
<Kinnison> elmo: the latter
<infinity> elmo : These will get shunted off to somewhere where pitti's magical tools can use them to construct langpackgs.
<infinity> langpacks, too.
<pitti> elmo: yes, it's meant to be a replacement for lamont's hack
<elmo> yeah, that's fine, I guess
<pitti> lamont didn't want to replicate the hack for e. g. stripped debug symbols
<pitti> elmo: what do you think about sth like aux.ubuntu.com
<pitti> with an archive-like structure
<pitti> which contains the translation tarballs, debug symbols, etc.?
<elmo> pitti: I don't particularly want to publish anything except the debug symbols?
<elmo> and that pretty much needs a proper archive, if they're in .deb format?
<pitti> it would be more regular than people.u.c./~lamont
<pitti> elmo: I didn't think about the format of the debug symbols yet
<infinity> Yeah, translation tarballs shouldn't be public.
<pitti> elmo: if debug symbols should come in deb format, that's fine for me; I don't want to install them, though
<infinity> But they need a nice home that's not the current hack.
<Kinnison> k
<Kinnison> w/w, sorry
<elmo> sure, the nice home can be langtarballs.internal tho
<elmo> :)
<pitti> elmo: ok, debug.ubuntu.com then?
<infinity> elmo : Indeed.
<seb128> pitti: we really want to use debs for this?
<elmo> pitti: yes, that's fine, but I'd prefer something less hand-wavy for the debug stuff
<pitti> seb128: I don't *want* debs
<elmo> why not?
<pitti> well, they are not installed
<elmo> why not?
<seb128> because the goal is to make automatic debug, not to say to people to install debug packages
<elmo> you know about /usr/lib/debug/ or whatever it's called right?
<seb128> that doesn't work fine
<pitti> a crashed process downloads them from debug.u.c, and adds them to the current gdb session
<pitti> not more
<pitti> right
<seb128> elmo: because half of the bug reply atm are "please install blabla-dbg an try to get the bug again"
<elmo> seb128: why can't a post-morten analysis do apt-get install from debug.u.c ?
<pitti> elmo: no root
<pitti> elmo: this should be possible for any user
<elmo> rather than inventing yet another transport, download, mirror, etc. system?
<elmo> meh
<pitti> well, this should be lightweight
<elmo> lightweight?
<elmo> have you seen the size of -dbg packages? :P
<pitti> if the download fails, we forget about the symbols
<pitti> it's just a "nice to have them if we can get them"
<pitti> elmo: that's why we don't want -dbg debs :-)
<elmo> pitti: dude, we can't just have them on one server, that's not scalable
<pitti> lightweight in the protocol sense, I mean
<infinity> pitti : detached symbols can be up to 10 times larger than the binary they're detached from.
<pitti> ok
<elmo> esp. if some core gnome component breaks and a million users all start requesting 10Mb -dbg packages at once
<infinity> pitti : It's almost never going to be "lightweight".
<Kamion> pitti: you don't necessarily have to apt-get install debug .debs, you could unpack them and use LD_LIBRARY_PATH or whatever
<pitti> elmo: as I said, it's not a problem to store them in debs
<pitti> elmo: right, as Kamion says
<pitti> elmo: deb is a reasonable container and would be compatible for mirrors, etc.
<Kamion> I'm not convinced the <countrycode>.debug.ubuntu.com system is going to be particularly ideal either mind you
<Kamion> but the target audience is not going to be configuring this first, so ...
<elmo> kamion: that's not a good long term solution for archive.u.c either
<pitti> no, but I don't think that we really need to mirror debug.u.c
<elmo> eventually we'll have to do something better
<elmo> pitti: dude, you're on crack
<elmo> we can't plan a service and deliberately not consider how it's going to be mirrored
<pitti> no, that's not what I said/meant
<infinity> pitti : Software segfaults a lot.  This service will get hammered, no matter how much we'd prefer to think it won't.
<pitti> with a normal deb-like archive structure it *can* be mirrored, right?
<elmo> not when that service involves huge files that are very likely to be concurrently requested by a LOT of users
<pitti> ok
<pitti> elmo: so an archive-like debug.u.c with debs as containers and Packages.gz files would be the right thing?
<seb128> I don't think that's a lot of users
<elmo> seb128: so when the panel gets a segfault bug ... ?
<elmo> you know how many warty + hoary CDs we've shipped right? :-P
<seb128> elmo: I read upstream bug, even on major crasher there is like 5 dups/day or something like that
<infinity> 3?
<seb128> most of people don't use bug-buddy or whatever
<elmo> seb128: that's the people who report bugs
<seb128> they just restart the app
<elmo> seb128: I thought the plan for this was to be entirely automatic?
<seb128> no need to get the symboles if you don't send a bug
<elmo> at worst a user has to click ok type thing?
<infinity> Yeah.
<seb128> you can't do that without asking user ...
<pitti> elmo: well, the user still have to confirm that the report is sent, for privacy reasons
<seb128> that's like bug-buddy
<infinity> It'd be like bug-buddy, or the Microsoft SEGV-hunter thingee.
<doko> we could ship a debug dvd together with the install cd :-/
<infinity> Fully automating something that could involve dumps of sensitive bits of userspace memory isn't nice.
<infinity> (Or kernel memory, if it's a really GOOD bug!)
<pitti> yeah, we have a dialog (also for entering additional comments)
<pitti> <pitti> elmo: so an archive-like debug.u.c with debs as containers and Packages.gz files would be the right thing?
<elmo> ok, look, here's my perspective: if this is significantly easier than reporting a bug in bugzilla -> a lot of people are going to potentially use it -> if a lot (and remember if we have millions of users, even 10% or 5% is A LOT for one apache instance), we have to plan for this to be scalable
<pitti> ^ fine for everybody?
<elmo> we already have the deb + archive system, so if we don't want to use that, I'd like to see compelling reasons NOT to use it
<Kinnison> How do you decide what goes in which archive?
<Kinnison> is a build going to produce two .changes files?
<pitti> that was my initial idea, but infinity has a better one obviously
<pitti> infinity?
<infinity> I do? :)
<elmo> Kinnison: no
<elmo> Kinnison: plan is to (ab)use the section/type field
<elmo> in the same way as d-i stuff does for 'byhand'
<infinity> Can katie be taught to bounce certain types of files to a different archive? (much as by-hand stuff does whacky things)
<elmo> (or 'raw-installer' these days)
<Kinnison> elmo: to put stuff into a different archive?!
<infinity> There.  What elmo said.
<elmo> Kinnison: sure?
<Kinnison> elmo: *groan*
<infinity> Note that it's only a different archive froma publishing perspective.
<pitti> that would also work for translation tarballs?
<infinity> In other ways (like version tracking), it's the same archive.
<Kinnison> infinity: Joy of Joys
<elmo> pitti: translation tarballs, just go somewhere internal
<infinity> ie: You want foo.deb foo_debug.deb and foo_lang.tgz to match.
<Kinnison> this is going to make launchpad *incredibly* more complex
<elmo> they don't need an archive, and they're going on a public server like debug.u.c
<Kinnison> yay
<infinity> pitti : Yeah, langpacks are easier than the debug stuff, really.  They can be thrown just about anywhere with very little thought.
<pitti> elmo: right, but still katie has to handle these files, so that works?
<infinity> pitti : Bringing up the debug stuff made this conversation much nastier. :)
<elmo> pitti: yes
<Kamion> Kinnison: don't you need separate published views of the one archive anyway, in order to track archive.u.c versus ports.u.c?
* Kinnison was expecting langpacks to simply be fed to rosetta
<pitti> great
<pitti> Kinnison: we need a staging area
<pitti> Kinnison: Rosetta imports once a day, and right now I need the tarballs, too
<Kinnison> Kamion: ports.u.c ?
<pitti> s/imports/will import/
<Kamion> Kinnison: contains hppa, ia64, sparc binaries
<Kinnison> pitti: the plan was for rosetta to import when it becomes available
<Kamion> Kinnison: only amd64/i386/powerpc/source are visible on archive.u.c
<pitti> infinity: well, we have to make it generic enough to also support debug symbols :-) that's why we have that discussion in the first place
<pitti> Kinnison: well, fine for me
<Kinnison> Kamion: Surely that's the job of something to split up the published stuff afterwards
<infinity> Kinnison : I see no reason why soyuz couldn't feed things directly to rosetta when the time comes.  But katie needs a facility to throw them somewhere else for now, so we need that too. :)
<Kinnison> infinity: I see
<Kamion> Kinnison: well, ok, it happens to be implemented by mirroring from a complete published archive on jackass at the moment
<infinity> pitti : I don't necessarily see how the two relate much, except that in both cases we're uploading "random crap to the archive"... But we already do that (byhand tgzs, udebs, etc)
<Kamion> udebs aren't really all that random nowadays; byhand tgzs, sure
<elmo> Kamion: only because I'm not meant to be doing any serious work on katie that'd be better done in launchpad ..
<elmo> the current implementation is a hideous hack, and launchpad really shouldn't rely on it long term
<elmo> (ports.u.c I mean)
<infinity> Yay for hideous hacks.
<infinity> elmo : How much effort will it take to get langpacks accepted by katie in a .changes?... That seems a viable first step.
<infinity> elmo : Then put them somewhere that isn't lamont's ~ ... :)
<pitti> so since we don't want to handle translation tarballs and debug symbols uniformly, that also puts an end to the "dpkg-addauxfile" idea?
<infinity> pitti : dpkg-distaddfile hardly needs to be reinvented.
<pitti> infinity: erm, I thougt that adds a file to a deb, not to a changes?
<Kamion> pitti: nope
<elmo> infinity: not too much, couple of days to do it + test
<infinity> elmo : Sweet.
<elmo> but this is a really bad time for me
<infinity> elmo : Isn't any time a bad time? :)
<elmo> I'm moving sometime between now and debconf, and then there's well debconf
<elmo> as in, moving 200 miles
<infinity> elmo : Would it make it easier/harder if we had a specific file type for them (like .lang), or does it not matter one iota, so long as we abuse section stuff violently?
<elmo> mmm. firealarm.  bbiab
<pitti> infinity: ah, cool. So pkgstrip{translations,debug} should just call dpkg-distaddfile for the tarball/debug deb and that will DTRT?
<infinity> elmo : Timing's not terribly important.  We can talk about rolling this out post-Debconf.
<infinity> pitti : That would do 'er, yeah.
<infinity> pitti : Once elmo and you argue and decide on the right section/priority for these to make katie happy, the rest is simple.
<infinity> pitti : And when we roll it out, I can remove one more hideous hack from the buildds.
<pitti> infinity: but translation tarballs don't have a debian control directory, and thus no section...
<infinity> pitti : man dpkg-distaddfile.
<infinity> pitti : It takes section and prio on the command line.
<pitti> ah, cool. sorry
<pitti> yeah, that sounds indeed nice
<infinity> (It really just writes to debian/files, which you could do by hand, but using higher level tools always feels less dirty...)
<infinity> Then genchanges reads debian/files and debian/changelog to construct the .changes.
<infinity> And now I'll stop giving dpkg-dev lessons.
<pitti> thanks anyway :-)
<seb128> cool :)
<pitti> ok, so the plan would be
<pitti> 1) negotiate appropriate section/prio
<infinity> (And, possibly, filetype, if that makes life easier for katie)
<pitti> 2) put the tarballs/debug debs into a separate place in katie
<pitti> 3) change pkgstriptranslations to use dpkg-distaddfile
<pitti> 4) remove the current sbuild hack
<pitti> ?
<infinity> Pretty much, yup.
<infinity> 5) Profit
<seb128> pitti: so we have decided than debug use deb format?
<pitti> 6) conquer the world
<pitti> 7) beer
<pitti> seb128: yes
<infinity> I like 7.
<infinity> I have some in the fridge.
<infinity> Should we call this meeting more or less adjourned?
<seb128> pitti: 7) is a sort of 5) :p
<pitti> for my part, yes
<infinity> I can follow up with elmo about the katie bits post-debconf.
<pitti> I'll talk to scott about the hook thing
<pitti> great
<infinity> And when katie's ready, I'll ping pitti about changing pkgstrip
<seb128> pitti: hum ... how do get these deb installed?
<pitti> infinity: can you ping me after 1) and 2) are done?
<pitti> hehe, thanks
<infinity> And yeah, talking about moving the hack from debhelper to dpkg-dev can happy out of band from the other bits.
<pitti> seb128: we extract them in /tmp
<infinity> s/happy/happen/
* infinity stares at his fingers.
<seb128> pitti: ugly, but why not
<mvo> seb128: they are just the container 
<infinity> seb128 : unpack in /tmp, use LD_PRELOAD, profit.
<seb128> pitti: and that allow to apt-get them too which is bonus
<pitti> seb128: I think using the mirror infrastructure is sane
<pitti> infinity: not LD_PRELOAD
<seb128> yep, I agree
<seb128> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<pitti> infinity: just tell gdb to use the symbols in that file
<infinity> Err, yeah.
<infinity> My LD_'s got confused.
<infinity> Gimme a break, I just typed "happy" when I meant "happen".
<infinity> I'm clearly not all here. :)
<seb128> pitti: dh_strip does that magic, no?
<mvo> would "apt-get download" be handy for that?
<pitti> gdb) help add-symbol-file
<seb128> mvo: what is "download" ?
<infinity> mvo!
<pitti> seb128: for now, yes
<infinity> mvo : I wanted to yell at you about something in apt.
<pitti> seb128: maybe later in a dpkg hook, but for now dh_strip has to do
<mvo> it would just download a deb into the current dir
<seb128> pitti: k
<pitti> mvo: that would rock. definitively more sophisticated than calling urllib.urlretrieve...
* mvo runs from infinity 
<seb128> mvo: would be nice
<infinity> mvo : Why does apt insist on reading the default config file BEFORE taking commang line args (specifically '-o Dir=foo') into account?
<seb128> mvo: I've already asked, but any plan to make synaptic handling deb files ... ? :)
<infinity> mvo : THat just seems so hideously broken, since you then end up with two overlapping configs.
<pitti> mvo: well, there already is apt-get install --download-only
<mvo> infinity: historical reasons probably *cough*
<elmo> don't block on me for the section/type
<pitti> mvo: but it doesn't do exactly what we want, but the code can be stolen from that I guess
<elmo> I hate naming stuff, someone else decide and just tell me
<mvo> pitti: that will download into  /var/cache/apt 
<pitti> mvo: right, that's what I meant
<mvo> infinity: is there a bug open for it yet=
<infinity> elmo : Will a different file type help, or will _lang.tgz be fine?
<mvo> s/=/?/
<infinity> mvo : Not sure.  I just ran into it recently, and I'm a notoriously lazy bug reporter.
<pitti> elmo: would priority "aux" do? and then decide by section debug/translation?
<elmo> infinity: a decided scheme would be helpful for sanity checking purposes, but other than that I don't care
<elmo> pitti: it needs to be a separate section for each type of aux
<elmo> aux-lang
<elmo> aux-debug
<elmo> whatever
<pitti> priority: aux -> not for the archive
<pitti> section: translation -> internal
<Kinnison> Can I please ask someone who know what "odd" things ubuntu has archive-wise to compile a list of them all and email it to me?
<pitti> section: debug -> debug.u.c.
<pitti> ?
<elmo> pitti: priority is irrelevant afa katie is concerned, you can have priority: bananas for all I care
<elmo> you don't want normal section names that might be confused with sections
<elmo> like real sections
<pitti> elmo: just to avoid name overlaps (e. g. we already have an "optional"-priority translation)
<elmo> so, I suggest someprefix-translation
<elmo> so, I suggest someprefix-debug
<pitti> ok
<elmo> shrug, I suppose there's no compatability constraints, we could key of the priority if you want
<Kamion> hadn't we sort of settled on raw-* for general stuff-that's-not-debs?
<Kamion> well, stuff-that's-not-debs-for-the-main-archive
<elmo> yeah.  raw-translation might make sense
<pitti> ok
<elmo> raw-debug seems a bit strange, but either works
<pitti> and raw-debug?
<infinity> raw-lang?
<elmo> as I said, I hate naming :/
* infinity hates long names.
<pitti> infinity: so just make it filter on section raw-lang and raw-debug for now
<infinity> I'm so old skool UNIX.
<infinity> r-l!
<pitti> ok, raw-dbg
<infinity> r-d!
<elmo> n
<pitti> :-)
<elmo> y a t s
<infinity> Feh.
<elmo> anyway, are we wrapped up here?  I need to go to Angel
<infinity> We're wrapped.
<pitti> I think so, yes
<pitti> thanks for your time, guys
<pitti> next meeting: pizza
<infinity> Beer, yo.
<pitti> not for lunch
<pitti> I wrap that stuff up in the wiki
<seb128> thanks pitti, thanks everybody
<seb128> lunch time :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 5 July 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda ||  Tue 12 July 22:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu 14 July 22:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-10
<mako> greetings
<Treenaks> hi mako
<ogra> hey mako 
<mako> there is a non-zero chance i might miss the meeting tonight
<mako> i'm at LSM.. it's unclear what if the place where i can get net will be open
<Seveas> too bad
<Seveas> If you know the time you'll be there, we could change them meeting time I suppose...
<JanC> changing meeting time less than 24h before is a problem for many people...
<ogra> TB does that all the time though ;)
<Kamion> I'm likely to be out of touch from about half an hour from now until the time of the meeting
<Kamion> so I'll need to know soon
<Mez> evening seth
<mdke> /j #get-e
<mdke> pah
<mdke> weird there isn't even a space there
<Seveas> <ctrl><enter> perhaps?
<seth_k> afternoon Mez
<Mez> evening Seth
<Seveas> 10 minutes to liftoff
<Seveas> Let's get the pre-party started
<mako> looks like i'll make it after all
<seth_k> so we're having a pre-pre-party?
<tseng> mako++
* ogra brings the obligaory pot of coffee
<mako> there is a cool hacker squat in dijon that is open
<Seveas> welcome mako :)
* Seveas hands out cookies
<mako> they have "apt-get install anarchism" painted on the top of the building
<Seveas> lol :)
<ogra> mako, so how is france ? you just left germany before the wather got really odd
* mako looks for a piccture
<Seveas> Here's for all cell phine addicts: http://www.firebox.com/index.html?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=1044
<mako> http://garlicviolence.org/irl/drkvg-tanneries-aptget_install_anarchism.jpg
<Seveas> phone*
<bddebian> Hey no URLs, I'm on my Hurd box.. :-(
<mako> they have a box of ubuntu CDs up :)
<Seveas> :)
<mako> of course! :)
<Seveas> nice picture
<ogra> mako, cool
<\sh> g'evening gentlemen
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<Seveas> g'evening \sh 
* mako has two more talks tomorrow.. so we should be efficient :)
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> about talks: Ubuntu-nl has been invited to talk at software freedom day NL
<mako> Kamion: around?
<\sh> mako: your proposal for your clubclothes :) ++10 from me ;)
<Seveas> mako, is it possible to get an extra box of ubuntu cd's for that day?
<silbs> mako: Kamion might be on a train. He was in London today.
* \sh is w8ing for his ubuntu cds
<Seveas> \sh, clubclothes as in Ubuntu t-shirts?
<ogra> hey silbs 
<Seveas> +10 from me too then :)
<\sh> seveas: read makos proposal :)
<silbs> hi ogra
<mdke> hi guys
<ogra> :)
<Seveas> \sh, where?
<\sh> planet
<Seveas> ah
<mako> does anyone know where elmo is?
<mdke> he hasn't been in #ubuntu-devel for a while
<sabdfl> hi guys
<tseng> hi mark.
<Seveas> hi sabdfl 
<Mez> mdke: Kamion = on train :D
<\sh> hey mark
<Mez> mako = @ conference
<mdke> Mez, i didn't ask, but ok
<sabdfl> mako's made it
<mdke> hopefully they'll get here :)
<Mez> mdke, again - I confused you and mako ;)
<mdke> ahh
<ogra> <Kamion> I'm likely to be out of touch from about half an hour from now until the time of the meeting
<mdke> thought so
<ogra> that was 16:26 UTC
<mdke> hey sabdfl 
* Mez pokes mdke and adds something to make it change his name
<kinjoo> hi guys
<Seveas> hi kinjoo 
<mdke>  /nick mdke_not_to_be_confused_with_mako_or_mdz
<Seveas> :D
<Mez> no I just confuse you with mako :D
<Mez> I see the m and the k in the same place ;)
<sabdfl> i'll sms elmo quickly
<Seveas> m[^a] k[^o] 
<Seveas> or md[^z] 
* mako thanks the hackers at tannesier for the midnight bandwdith :)
<mako> (and beer)
<Seveas> good thinking, beer
<ogra> :)
<ogra> hey hno73 :)
<Mez> ooh beer :D
<hno73> ogra: hey :)
<mdke> hey hno73!
* ogra has a ton of strawberrys
<mako> so, we still waiting for kamion or elmo?
<hno73> hello mdke!
* Seveas opens the fridga and gives everybody eho's interested a nice cold beer
<ogra> mako, yeps
* mdke grabs one off Seveas 
<Mez> lol- I think I may go my own fridge :D
<sabdfl> just sms'd elmo, let's get cracking
* Mez cracks
<sabdfl> mako: do you want to handle the member candidates first?
<ogra> call up their names to make sure they are here ? 
<Mez> dont we usually give names firsT?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-03
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 19:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* jjross is away: I am away, but I'll be Back
* jjross is back (gone 00:00:08)
<damned> morning all
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Ro1> hi
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 05 Jul 06:00: Technical Board | 06 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jul 05:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 07 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> there is no way in the universe i'm getting up for that.
<Hawkwind> Just stay up from the night before :)
<Hobbsee> heh, no way
<Hobbsee> i'm not that much of a lover of being shot.
<Hawkwind> Hah
<sivang> @schdule Israel
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<dholbach> @worldcup berlin
<dholbach> :-p
<sivang> hehe
<Ubugtu> Dholbach: Germany is going to loose anyway
<Meyer> brazil already lost :(
<dholbach> Ubugtu: I might agree.
<ogra> dholbach, bah, nothing of the new german patriotism in your blood ? 
<ogra> (even though that seems to switch off brain cells)
<Meyer> ogra, some?? brazilians are dead stupid on world cups...
<ogra> hehe, well, germany is just changing a lot ...
<ogra> i think its the first time people actually carry the german flag in the streets where it was something people threw weird looks at you if you did that a year ago
<ogra> s/where/while/
<Meyer> ogra, everyone was using the yellow jersey on the streets until the last game.. :P the streets here were all painted green and yellow... and almost every car had a little brazilian flag hanging out...
<ogra> Meyer, well, in germany we have this history problem ... its not cool to carry a german flag and commit public to patriotism here since 1945 its a noticeable major change
<Meyer> i know.. :)
<Seveas> <Seveas> magic 8ball: will germany win the worldcup?
<Seveas> <Ubugtu> Of course
<Seveas> dholbach, --^
<dholbach> Seveas: :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-04
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 04 Jul 17:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 17:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<dholbach> Seveas: you implemented that @worldcup command? :-p
<zul> hehe...i hope the germans loose ;)
<dholbach> I wouldn't have thought they manage to win the last game, so I'm the wrong one to ask :)
<jsgotangco> bah they were lucky
<Klaidas> @schedule VIlnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* jjross is away: I am away, but I'll be Back
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 19:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<\sh> morning people
<Klaidas> morning
<Klaidas> pretty much evening here, tho :)
<Klaidas> Tue Jul  4 22:54:25 EEST 2006
<\sh> well, it's 21;52 UTC+2
<\sh> I have a flaky umts connection
<\sh> hey scott
<Keybuk> heyhey
<Klaidas> the meeting must go on ;)
<\sh> I'm sitting outside with a flaky umts connection
<\sh> if we can manage it, I would like to put my request as first on the list
<Keybuk> Hi everybody, at the moment there's just me
<Keybuk> I'm pinging other TB members to see whether they've forgotten
<Keybuk> mdz, at least, is on holiday today
<Keybuk> some celebration of the time the americans had to get the french to fight a war for them, or something
<\sh> don't tell me , the TB meeting is postponed...I just managed to get a UTMS modem ;)
<mjg59> Evening
<Keybuk> right, we have Q
<Keybuk> let us begin
<Keybuk> \sh has asked to go first, due to a flaky modem
<Keybuk> \sh: off you go
<\sh> thx
<\sh> hi, my name is Stephan Hermann, I think most of you know me
<\sh> I disabled my developer rights the last months, because of personal problems
<\sh> but these personal problems are solved, and I want to re-apply for motu and core.
<\sh> that's why I'm here today...
<Keybuk> mjg59: any thoughts here?
<mjg59> I don't have any objection
<Keybuk> myself neither, \sh appears to be active again, and has been stuck in sponsor hell for a while
<mjg59> Though we haven't really got any formal process, this seems similar to the Debian emeritus process
<Keybuk> he's sufficiently proved, to my mind, that he's able to resume his duties again
<mjg59> I agree
<Keybuk> \sh: welcome back
<mjg59> Ok. Core candidates?
<ogra> \sh, congrats
<mjg59> There's a couple on the list, are any of them here?
* rodarvus is here
<\sh> Thanks a lot...so if anyone put me back into the teams, I can upload tomorrow a lot of stuff I have on my laptop
<LaserJock> wahoo \sh
<Keybuk> rodarvus: you're up, would you care to introduce yourself
<rodarvus> sure
<Keybuk> your past experience
<Keybuk> and what you'll be doing for Ubuntu
<rodarvus> I'm Rodrigo Novo, have been doing linux distro development for the last 9 years
<rodarvus> (I worked at Conectiva, Freedows Consortium and Nokia Institute of Technology)
<rodarvus> at conectiva I used to do rpm packaging but the rest of the job was basically the same as in ubuntu distribution
<rodarvus> at INdT (Nokia institute...) I worked on the "platform sdk"
<rodarvus> which are the core packages + development packages, run inside scratchbox, to do development for Maemo platform
<rodarvus> I was hired by Canonical three weeks ago
<rodarvus> to work mainly on Edubuntu, and in the near future, OLPC
<rodarvus> (hopefully a Ubuntu community effort)
<rodarvus> mjg59, thats why I asked you about OLPC yesterday, actually :)
<rodarvus> right now, I'm working on X packages for Edgy
<rodarvus> more specifically, I'm working on a spec with the description and list of the changes (which are quite big)
<\sh> rodarvus: so you are replacing deniels
<Keybuk> what's the general play for X in Edgy?
<Keybuk> s/play/plan/
<rodarvus> and am already working on integrating changes from debian xserver-xorg-video-* into our video drivers
<rodarvus> Keybuk, I had relatively little time to talk with infinity, as he went on vacation a few days ago
<rodarvus> (two days after I started the task)
<rodarvus> the plan is to integrate better our X packages with debians
<rodarvus> as we don't have the manpower to maintain them ourselves
<mjg59> Sounds like a good start
<mjg59> Are we moving to 7.1?
<\sh> sounds great
<rodarvus> mjg59, yes, hopefully even in time for edgy
<rodarvus> the first part of the job is to base our package on theirs, though
<\sh> rodarvus: do we get all transitional packages as debian?
<rodarvus> and do like we do with Gnome - just diverge on upstream versions
<rodarvus> \sh, yes, this is the plan
<mjg59> rodarvus: How much experience have you of Debian packaging?
<rodarvus> mjg59, I've been doing this daily for the last few years
<rodarvus> and I have very strong knowledge of packaging policy itself
<rodarvus> (which is the most important part, I believe)
<Riddell> rodarvus: what experience do you have relevant to edubuntu?
<rodarvus> in this case, I have almost 9 years of experience (counting rpm and deb packaging)
<\sh> rodarvus: why do you want to do the packaging of Xorg for ubuntu? 
<rodarvus> Riddell, I have little experience with edubuntu itself - I have some (previous) experience with thinclients (which is related to LTSP, and thus, edubuntu)
<rodarvus> \sh, partly because it is in a semi-abandoned status in Ubuntu
<rodarvus> and partly because I want to be involved in the maintenance of X packages
<rodarvus> (which are important on any linux distro, of course)
<\sh> rodarvus: I'm just asking because of the "sometimes" political indifference between ubuntu and debian....so I would like to see if someone tries to combine the affords of packaging between ubuntu and debian....thx for your answer :)
<rodarvus> Riddell, thinclients are a very common setup in Brazil, and I have done a "edubuntu-like" package setup for Conecitva Linux in the past (though not for educational purposes)
<mjg59> Keybuk: Any more questions?
<Keybuk> I have none, I've had the opportunity to meet rodarvus in person in Paris
<ogra> rodarvus will take a bunch of responsibilitys in the edgy ltsp development
<rodarvus> ogra, right, I have a few (three) LTSP-related specs to complete on Edgy timeframe
<ogra> (and hopefully beyond :) )
<rodarvus> :)
<\sh> If keybuk met rodarvus I
<\sh> 'm second the decision
<\sh> s/if/when/
<Keybuk> mjg59: any more questions from you?
<mjg59> Nope, I'm happy
<Keybuk> ok, votes
<Keybuk> +1 from me, I'm confident he'll do a good job
* ogra cheers for rodarvus 
<mjg59> 1 from me
<Keybuk> mjg59: + or - ? :)
<ogra> well 1 > 0 :)
<mjg59> Congratulations!
<mjg59> Keybuk: I'll let you decide
<\sh> congrats rodarvus and welcome to ubuntu :)
<ogra> congrats rodarvus !
<rodarvus> thanks :)
<Keybuk> anybody else applying for core-dev/
<LaserJock> rodarvus: \o/
<mjg59> We'll move onto universe if nobody speaks up in the next minute or so...
<Keybuk> there's nobody else on my list, anyway
<Keybuk> so, universe
<Keybuk> lukketto?  present or ping'able by anyone?
<Keybuk> bluekuja: present?
<Keybuk> id_sonic?  present or ping'able by anyone?
<Keybuk> zbowling?  present or ping'able by anyone?
<Keybuk> bueller?
<Keybuk> bueller?
<bddebian> heh
<Keybuk> right then
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Keybuk> anyone want to comment on anything edgy related?
<ogra> it sucks to have no keyboard supoort on ibooks
<ogra> edgy related ^^^
<Riddell> are all the specs going to be reviewed by thursday?
<Keybuk> Riddell: good point
<Keybuk> mdz send an e-mail to u-d-a today
<Keybuk> basically, if you have a spec that has not yet been approved
<Keybuk> FIND A REVIEWER
<Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-reviewers
<Keybuk> those people can review your spec and get it to Pending Approval
<Keybuk> members of the TB (myself, mjg59, mdz) and Kamion can approve specs
<slomo_> ogra: that's fixed now
<slomo_> ogra: well, will be with the next kernel upload
<Keybuk> it is _your_ responsibility as a spec author to drive it to approval
<ogra> slomo_, i know
<Keybuk> don't leave it too late either, the reviewer may have many comments that need addressing
<ogra> slomo_, i still always type on the wrong keyboard :P
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> end of meeting
<Keybuk> thanks everybody
<ogra> thanks Keybuk 
* Keybuk wanders back to pissing about with asterisk :p
* ogra goes back to his patriotic duty and watches tv
<bddebian> ogra: :-)
<sabdfl> evening all
<jenda> @schedule Prague
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: Current meeting: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jenda> evening, sabdfl
<zul> evening sabdfl 
<sabdfl> apologies for being late, am i catching the tail end of the meeting?
<ogra> sabdfl, meeting is over 
<ogra> it was pretty short
<sabdfl> any fun decisions?
<ogra> reapproval of \sh as uploader
<ogra> approval of rodarvus as main uploader
<ogra> thats it
<ogra> and a call for us to get our specs reviewed :)
<sabdfl> specs specs specs!
<sabdfl> the mating call of ubuntu core devs
<ogra> heh
<rodarvus> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-05
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 19:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team
<cbx33> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 05 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: Marketing Team
<jsgotangco> 21:00 christ
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 06 Jul 04:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jul 03:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 07 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 03:00: Marketing Team
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 05 Jul 17:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 16:00: Marketing Team
<Klaidas> @schedule vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team
<Czubek> @schedule warsaw
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Warsaw: 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team
<Sp4rKy> hye
<Sp4rKy> please where is the next CC ?
<highvoltage> @meeting johannesburg
<raphink> @schedule Johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team
<raphink> highvoltage: ;)
<highvoltage> :)
<Sp4rKy> please when is the next CC ? :p
<ompaul> Sp4rKy,  it is not set up yet
<Seveas> Sp4rKy, not known yet, or it would be in the topic
<Sp4rKy> k
<ogra> likely next tueday though
<ogra> *tuesday
<Seveas> Kamion should get some mild poking
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Jul 19:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team
<spacey> hi
<spacey> :o
<ogra> hey everybody
<cbx33> hello Mr ogra 
<rodarvus> hello
<spacey> hi
<highvoltage> howdy
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<ogra> as usual there is not much from the tech side that will take us only short (45min as usual :P)
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> that was funny last time
<highvoltage> i'm actually glad to see that this time, i'm quite tired :)
<cbx33> awww
<ogra> there were some major changes in ltsp last week
<spacey> oe
<ogra> i work tightly with debian to create a 'real' upstream branch
<ogra> i.e. adding makefiles all over the place and make regular tarball releases from that
<highvoltage> which is the real upstream branch now, debians? or ltsp.org?
<ogra> our
<highvoltage> oooh.
<cbx33> we have the power
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/products/ltsp/+branches
<ogra> ltsp-mainline is the upstream branch now
<cbx33> that is fantastic news
<ogra> ltsp-common-buildsys is the branch where we make the change to the makefile structure
<cbx33> ogra: are there changes to be made to my man pages?
<ogra> if the feature works and is tested we'll merge it back in the upstreasm one
<cbx33> if so shout nd I can get them done early
<rodarvus> ogra, any timeframe to have ltsp-common-buildsys stabilized and merged into mainline?
<ogra> my edgy-ltsp branch will become the base for the edgy package
<rodarvus> should I wait for it to be merged before working on my own?
<ogra> rodarvus, i hope we manage it until UVF
<rodarvus> I mean, I suppose the changes there are quite intrusive
<ogra> not really
<ogra> they only change the strucdture and we add Makefile.am and configure.in 
<ogra> the rest is autoconf automake stuff
<rodarvus> good, no need to wait, then
<cbx33> rodarvus: go go go
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> the filesystem structure changed a bit though
<rodarvus> cbx33, its merge time still, no time for LTSP yet :)
<ogra> we added all bits that need compilation to a src dir
<cbx33> rodarvus: heheh
<ogra> exactly 
<ogra> feature development starts afetr UVF
<cbx33> I'm catching up on my work at work, so I can start to work on it at work if that makes sense
<ogra> the big advantage is that we dont need to have a native package anymnore
<ogra> additionally if you worked on ltsp, please have a look at the new plugin structure for ltsp-build-client
<highvoltage> that sounds interesting.
<cbx33> yeh that does sound very interesting
<ogra> you can add features by adding a plugin
<cbx33> do you want me to continue maintaining the man pages ogra ?
<ogra> every distro will have its own plugin subdirt
<rodarvus> the plugin hooks are documented somewhere?
<cbx33> or will that be handled by someone else now?
<ogra> cbx33, indeed !
<cbx33> Excellent
<rodarvus> (just curious)
<ogra> rodarvus, not yet
<cbx33> once new features are in I'll get right onit
<rodarvus> then they are/should be documented on the TODO document ;)
<ogra> rodarvus, but looking at the code will reveal the structure to you, its idiot proof simple
<rodarvus> ok
* cbx33 likes the sound of that
<ogra> (i understood it, must be idiot proof)
<cbx33> I thought you were about to say I wrote it so cbx33 could understand it
<cbx33> wrote the spec in crayon eh?
<ogra> nope, thats from vagrantc and otavio
<cbx33> heh
<ogra> vagrant runs freegeek.org and otavio is .br debian developer
<cbx33> ah cool
<ogra> oh, and ltsp messages are translatable ...
<ogra> we have a .po file now
<highvoltage> i've read some stuff from the freegeek guys, they have some bright people contributing there. lessdisks also seem to come from freegeek.
<ogra> but enough ltsp ... its not the ltsp meeting :)
<ogra> lessdisks was written by vrgrant
<ogra> *vagrant
<ogra> he is merging much of the lessdisks code into our ltsp
<ogra> sooo
<ogra> SPECS !
<rodarvus> you wanna start? :)
<ogra> we have a ton of specs, my last assigned one is in review
<highvoltage> oooh, nice. he could certainly help on the diskless fat clients then, i'll bug him some time, but as you say, enough about ltsp :)
<ogra> apparently LaserJock's was just approved
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> highvoltage, he's in #ltsp from time to time
<ogra> so are you all fine with the status of the specs on https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs ?
<rodarvus> I have three assigned to me, none of them approved yet. two of them are semi-approved. third one will be reviewed by fabbione when he returns
<ogra> anything thats important and missing ? 
<rodarvus> nope
<rodarvus> basically, all set
<ogra> me too 
<ogra> anybody else ? 
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> my specs never made it to paris
<ogra> LaserJock, set the LP status to approved please :)
<Amaranth> what are we discussing? :)
<ogra> oh, you did :)
* Amaranth is late, as usual
<ogra> Amaranth, specs
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs
<highvoltage> Amaranth: specs, as part of the EC meeting
<rodarvus> ogra, isn't it not done by ubuntu-reviewers?
<ogra> rodarvus, i think only the owner can change it, but i might be wrong
<LaserJock> it is set at approved
<rodarvus> actually, I thought it could only be done by one of them :) (set it as approved)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> it wasnt before i reloaded :)
<ogra> ok, any other tech stuff ?
<rodarvus> not from my side
<cbx33> seems all quiet 
<ogra> anybody want to speak up about docs ?
<ogra> were there any changes ? was there a cookbook meeting ? 
<ogra> (are any cookbook ppl here ?)
<cbx33> there is a meeting tomorrow
<cbx33> so the schedule says
<ogra> there !
<cbx33> or is that ubuntu?
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
<ogra> HedgeMage, will clearify :)
<ogra> ogra> anybody want to speak up about docs ?
<ogra> <ogra> were there any changes ? was there a cookbook meeting ? 
<ogra> <ogra> (are any cookbook ppl here ?)
<HedgeMage> I'm sorry I'm late... TT is having a rough day :/
<HedgeMage> What did I miss?
<rodarvus> there is a cookbook meeting tomorrow (as the topic says :) )
<ogra> tech stuff
<HedgeMage> The cookbook meting is scheduled for tomorrow due to a conflict that caused us to postpone
<ogra> there was none last week ? 
* HedgeMage shakes her head
<HedgeMage> nope
<HedgeMage> pygi had a conflict, and so did 3 other people, that's half our team
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> any other doc stuff  ? 
<ogra> where is pygi ? 
<HedgeMage> tomorrow we'll be voting on a new name, assigning specific authors to their tasks, and working out the rough spots in our timeline
<HedgeMage> He's had some non-ubuntu stuff going on and hasn't been available much.
<ogra> cool
<HedgeMage> ahh... there he is now :)
<ogra> pygi, anything you want to add about doc stuff ?
<pygi> ogra, I wasn't here, I can't know what was mentioned, but...
<pygi> I just wanna add that we must and we will make Edgy "Cookbook" even more rocking :)
<ogra> :)
<HedgeMage> :)
<ogra> ok, next, artwork ...
<ogra> do we want to handle the additional topic now as well ? 
<rodarvus> +1
<HedgeMage> cbx33: might you have time to bring me up to speed since ogra is busy running the meeting?
<HedgeMage> (in /msg)
<cbx33> HedgeMage: bit diffcult atm, AliasVegas and I are sharing one computer
<HedgeMage> ouch ok
<HedgeMage> I'll just play along and read the minutes later
<cbx33> ok cool
<ogra> the ubuntu artteam requested that we should have an artteam leader ... as lead as well as as single point of contact for them 
<ogra> additionally this person should take the decisions about edubuntus look and feel
* HedgeMage hides as she is quite busy and an artistic disaster
* cbx33 tries but often fails
<HedgeMage> cbx33: you are quite good :D
<ogra> when the topic came up in paris, only one name came up all the time ...
<highvoltage> sorry, my connection died there
<ogra> ... that was AliasVegas :)
<highvoltage> i missed the last few minutes too :/
<highvoltage> :)
<AliasVegas> :)
<ogra> we all know her awesome artwork ... and had conversations proxied through cbx33... imho she's well suited for the job as we can see by what we already got from her ;)
<cbx333> right we now have two computers :D
<rodarvus> ogra, I suggest you explain the details of the proposed task/responsability, and "officially" ask her if she is interested
<ogra> AliasVegas, how about introducing yourself :)
<AliasVegas> thanks lol
<HedgeMage> ahh, so this is the famous wife and artist... I only know you from legend ;)
<ogra> rodarvus, go ahead ... 
<AliasVegas> Im Lisa, Just turned 21....
<ogra> (i dont need to lead all of the meeting ;) )
<rodarvus> oh yeah you need :P
<pygi> ogra, just most :)
<AliasVegas> I'm currently involved in freelance webdesign
<AliasVegas> and of course edubuntu..... :)
<cbx333> I do harp on about it quite a lot right AliasVegas ?
<AliasVegas> yep
<AliasVegas> I would be very interested in helping out with anything I can
<rodarvus> nice
<rodarvus> well, let me tell you about our proposal :)
<ogra> :)
<cbx333> :p
<rodarvus> we are in need of a official artwork lead for the Edgy development cycle
<rodarvus> this person will have close contact with the Ubuntu artwork team
* highvoltage nods
<rodarvus> and as a lead, will have the final "nod" on what is done with regards to artwork on Edubuntu (of course, with help from the artwork team)
<ogra> and from the edubuntu community :)
<cbx333> indeed :D
<rodarvus> another "bonus" would be to help bring more hands into our artwork team, of course :)
<rodarvus> ogra, indeed
<ogra> we always decided after discussion in the meetings about artwork stuff
<rodarvus> when I say "Edubuntu artwork team", I really mean Edubuntu community members interested in all artwork related aspects of Edubuntu
<ogra> even though the word of an art person should have the final say i dont think we should break with that tradition
<ogra> well, we actually never had a separated artwork team ...
<ogra> it was most of the people attending the meeting 
<cbx333> nope, but I don;t think that that's the way it would function anyway, 
<ogra> (indeed there was/is a team on LP)
<HedgeMage> IOW, don't let clueless people like me tell you how to make things pretty when I should be coding or writing docs or something :P
* pygi can bring two people to art team, which should help Lisa ^^
<AliasVegas> :)
<ogra> HedgeMage, critics are always welcome :)
<rodarvus> I can bring someone to this team too
<rodarvus> to help AliasVegas and all interested
<rodarvus> anyhow
<cbx333> excellent
<highvoltage> did AliasVegas accept? sorry, i missed a big part.
<ogra> i can only bring myself (2 years of graphics design experience) but sadly not my time
<cbx333> we need to collect emails from these people, and mail out to them once the team is established
<rodarvus> highvoltage, he haven't even asked her officially yet :)
<cbx333> ogra stop being so modest :p
<highvoltage> cbx33, you read minds? i was about to say something similar :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I think we haven't given her the chance to get a word in edgewise ;)
<highvoltage> rodarvus, ok
<cbx333> highvoltage: I steal your thoughts in your sleep
<cbx333> mwuuhahahah
<AliasVegas> He does the same to me
<rodarvus> AliasVegas, as a last comment, you'll obviously have all the necessary technical help you'll need, from us
<highvoltage> cbx33, geez, that's when i have the most dangerous thoughts!
<ogra> yeah, you wont have to care for packaging or how to get the art into the distro
<cbx333> I won;t tell everyone your super amazing world domination plan
<AliasVegas> Oh good lol
<rodarvus> so you, and the other people interested only in artwork (if this is the case), don't need to worry about technical aspects
<rodarvus> from past work experience, I know this is very important :)
<AliasVegas> :)
<ogra> while we're at past work experience ...
<rodarvus> anyone would like to add anything regarding the "job" responsabilities? :)
<ogra> would be nice to have you as a member AliasVegas :)
<cbx333> ogra: are you meaning edubuntu membership?
* highvoltage nods
<ogra> (official edubuntu-member that is)
<ogra> cbx333, well, it a big job membership should go alongside here ...
<cbx333> true
<pygi> ogra, and I waited for membership for a month even when I was accepted ^-^
<AliasVegas> What do I need to do to get membership?
* pygi promises to be quiet :)
<cbx333> give ogra a bribe :p
<rodarvus> usually you'd need to introduce yourself
<rodarvus> and be voted
<HedgeMage> pygi: that's because you don't nag people as well as I do :P
<AliasVegas> ok :P
<ogra> AliasVegas, cbx333 already did it ... your art contributions should suffice i think
<rodarvus> but this seems to be a case of popular acclamation
<rodarvus> santo subito!
<ogra> only formal stuff like a LP account and a wikipage
<LaserJock> ogra: what no vote? ;(
<cbx333> AliasVegas: has a wikipage
<cbx333> and an LP account
<ogra> LaserJock, next EC i guess to give her time to prepare 
<highvoltage> LaserJock, don't worry, i'm sure you'll get to vote :)
<ogra> OH !
<ogra> then we should indeed vote
<ogra> but then we should also ask the usual questions :P
<rodarvus> by the way,
<highvoltage> ogra, but next week, right?
<rodarvus> before we move too further on this subject :)
* pygi thinks we should also do the cheerleading part :)
<cbx333> this is all moving too fast
<cbx333> my head is spinning
<rodarvus> AliasVegas, do you have any questions, doubts, fears regarding what we say? Would you like us to elaborate more on the subject?
<ogra> highvoltage, next week is no official EC ... we need to announce it ...
<highvoltage> oh yes
<AliasVegas> I think my lovely husband has explained most of the gist to me
<cbx333> I thought today was EC?
<LaserJock> it is
<HedgeMage> It should be.
<ogra> yeah
* cbx333 grins
<rodarvus> good
<HedgeMage> We did my CoC retroactively when my laptop died, can't she do her LP stuff the same way?
<cbx333> LP stuff is done
<cbx333> all apart from GPG
<cbx333> to sign the CoC
<HedgeMage> cool
<ogra> ok, but we need the signed CoC 
<cbx333> I can get that done later
<ogra> AliasVegas, and you need to apply for membership in the https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members/+members team
<cbx333> on today
<ogra> ok
<cbx333> doing now
<ogra> ok
<cbx333> ok joined
<ogra> we can vote in advance i think :)
<jsgotangco> hey
* jsgotangco just woke up
<cbx333> hi jsgotangco 
<HedgeMage> heya jsgotangco 
<cbx333> tired yet?
<highvoltage> morning jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> sorry im late
* pygi thinks we should cheerlead first :P
<ogra> jsgotangco, right in time for the fun :)
* cbx333 lets pygi don the skirt
<ogra> pygi, go ahead :)
<jsgotangco> ill scrollback first
<HedgeMage> pygi: put on this skirt and I'll chuck you across the channel :P
<HedgeMage> hi mhz 
<AliasVegas> Do I want to know what "cheerleading" is?
<cbx333> not when pygi does it
<cbx333> it's scary :p
<highvoltage> AliasVegas, you probably do
<HedgeMage> AliasVegas: people supporting you being made a member
<pygi> cbx33, lol, all lies :(
<ogra> AliasVegas, girls in short skirts jumping and shouting waving with pompoms
<HedgeMage> just watch out for falling pygis
<cbx333> I think she meant in context
<mhz> hey, I was so surprised #edubuntu had no meeting going on...and then I remembered meetings are held here :(
<cbx333> :p
<pygi> erghhh :P
* jsgotangco its 5am here =)
<spacey> i'm off, gn
<pygi> cbx33, watch out the python questions now :P
* cbx333 can't really start the cheerleading...I'm biased :p
<LaserJock> whatever
<cbx333> awww shucks
<HedgeMage> lol
<ogra> cbx333, thats no excuse
* cbx333 stands up to the mic
<ogra> \o_ lisa ! _o/
* ogra cheerleads if nobody else does
<cbx333> I think AliasVegas did a fantastic job on the wallpaper
<highvoltage> lisa lisa she's the man, if she can't do it no one can!
* highvoltage jumps
* rodarvus agrees with cbx333 
<cbx333> from what I hear it's a big hit with people
<LaserJock> umm, "man" ? ;p
<ogra> heh
<AliasVegas> I'm no man! :( lol
<cbx333> highvoltage: I'm hoping "man" was just to rhyme
<highvoltage> LaserJock, a figure of speach
<highvoltage> cbx3333 yes
<LaserJock> jeeze, he's not that old
<HedgeMage> lol
<LaserJock> anyway ....
<rodarvus> LaserJock, I hope he's not 333 too :)
<highvoltage> seriously though, I think lisa proved herself with various artwork she's been working on
* HedgeMage agrees
<ogra> yeah
<cbx333> totally +1
<highvoltage> she has the skill and talent, and it is of very professional quality
<ogra> cbx333, sh onlys the council !
<ogra> *shh even
<highvoltage> the janew pic was also very impressive, i could tell it was her immediately :)
<LaserJock> I have no doubt in her artistic ability, but this also requires a fair amount of community involvement
<cbx333> sorry.... I meant I agree with you guys
<HedgeMage> and putting up with cbx333 is a testament to her people skills ;)
* HedgeMage ducks
<cbx333> grrr
<ogra> sooo
<pygi> LaserJock, we can always help her
<ogra> LaserJock, jsgotangco, highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> AliasVegas, are you prepared to become more involved with the edubuntu community?
<AliasVegas> YES
<LaserJock> anyway, I'm +1 as long as she thinks she is up to it and is commited for Edgy at least
* ogra votes +1 based on former contributions
<highvoltage> AliasVegas, this would typically mean attenting at least one of these kinds of meetings a month, and helping manage whatever art team is formed
<AliasVegas> yes thats cool
<rodarvus> highvoltage, actually, I believe its more like at least one (short) meeting per week
* highvoltage votes +1 based on contributions, willingness to get more involved, and willingness to manage art team
* cbx333 will drag AliasVegas to the meetings...not that I think I'll have to once she gets going :p
<highvoltage> rodarvus, yes, it is, i was just thinking in terms of minimals
<rodarvus> highvoltage, me too :)
<jsgotangco> sorry to spoil but i will have to -1 on this for now and wait for more involvement
<AliasVegas> Im happy to attend any meetings needed
<highvoltage> rodarvus, hence  the term 'at least' :)
<ogra> only jeromes vote is missing, but we already  have a majority
<rodarvus> this is a position of responsability :)
<AliasVegas> I'm very comitted to my work
<ogra> on. no, jsgotangco voted :)
<mhz> ogra: jerome must be already zZzZing
<pygi> h
<jsgotangco> no
<mhz> hehe
<LaserJock> ok, so was that the vote for art-lead or membership?
* jsgotangco just did quick scrollback
<HedgeMage> membership, I though
<ogra> so thats +3 vs -1 (which will change in the future, i'm sure)
<HedgeMage> thought
<rodarvus> membership
<ogra> LaserJock, membership
<ogra> i dont think we need to vote on the artteam leadership ... there is nobody else who wants to do it :)
<highvoltage> i would tend to agree with jsgotangco, it's better to see some form of long-term commitment, before committing a +1 for membership, but i also think that since the edubuntu team is still small, you can afford to be more lenient.
<LaserJock> heh, true
<highvoltage> or what ogra said :)
<rodarvus> also note that you can't "vote" for leadership
<rodarvus> leadership is something you earn
<ogra> yeah
<cbx333> true
<jsgotangco> yes
<HedgeMage> :)
<jsgotangco> it should come naturally
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and lisa made the commitment already, so no need to do more here for the council
<rodarvus> it comes naturally
<rodarvus> and this is what we expect from AliasVegas :)
<ogra> yeah :)
<pygi> don't pressure people :P
<cbx333> she'll be great I know it :D
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i wouldn't want to say we have to be more lenient because edubuntu membership = ubuntu membership
<rodarvus> and again, we are here to help, in any possible way - AliasVegas - just don't forget to ask :)
<LaserJock> ok, but I'm stuck on this, does being art lead imply being a -member ?
<ogra> in other news rodarvus got an official ubuntu-member i'll just announce here that i'll add him to edubuntu-members
<ogra> (after the meeting)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco, hmmm, i haven't considered that
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: people have waited months to be approved and even had a hard time gathering supporters
<pygi> cbx33, shhh python :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: yes please
<ogra> jsgotangco, but not many people can show off with a wallpaper thats shipped on a *buntu CD
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, on the other hand, ubuntu-membership == people that care, and contribute
<cbx333> I know AliasVegas cares a lot and is extremely passionate about her work
<highvoltage> and who have shown long-term, sustained contribution?
<ogra> yeah
<jsgotangco> ogra: sure +1 point on that, but we only had 1 contribution for the wallpaper for dapper please correct me if i am wrong
<mhz> iirc, sustained contrib. is one the top keys
<pygi> jsgotangco, bleh, but wallpaper was great :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, JaneW was in discussion with another guy  ... highvoltage who was that ? 
<ogra> he didnt really deliver anything ...
<LaserJock> pygi: but quality alone doesn't equal sustained contribution
<pygi> LaserJock, indeed 
<cbx333> I mean the main point is that....in artwork in general, it sis difficult to make a big impression
<highvoltage> ogra: toxictoadz?
<cbx333> there isn't as much that can be done as in doc/tech is there?
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> ogra: he is very talented, but equally hard to get hold of
<ogra> jsgotangco, but still the vote was 3:1 
<LaserJock> AliasVegas: how long (in hours) would you say you've worked on Edubuntu stuff?
<ogra> AliasVegas, did i say congrats ! ?
<jsgotangco> ogra: im not arguing about the vote
<ogra> jsgotangco, i know
<AliasVegas> 3 days give or take
<mhz> cbx33: yeah, harder than doc stuff (ie) but still there's always stuff to work on related to art
<ogra> i just figured i havent congratulated AliasVegas yet :)
<AliasVegas> Thanks ogra 
<highvoltage> AliasVegas, congratulations!
<rodarvus> AliasVegas, congratulations!
<highvoltage> AliasVegas, and welcome to the Edubuntu team! (officially)
<mhz> AliasVegas: well, then \o/ !
<ogra> yay
<AliasVegas> Thanks highvoltage & rodarvus 
<jsgotangco> congrats AliasVegas =)
<cbx333> congrats AliasVegas :D
<LaserJock> congrats AliasVegas 
* HedgeMage hugs AliasVegas congrats!
* cbx333 gives her a real life hug :D
<ogra> hehe
<AliasVegas> lol tanks guys!
<ogra> cbx333, proxy some for us please :)
<AliasVegas> I really will do my utmost to make a good impression
<HedgeMage> :)
<highvoltage> that part you've got nailed
<AliasVegas> :)
<ogra> oh, we're out of time ... 
<ogra> any other business ? 
<cbx333> well we gotta dash
<cbx333> so
<cbx333> can I just clarify
<cbx333> was the art lead decided upon?
<highvoltage> i really need to sleep, but there's one more thing if i can have a minute
<cbx333> shoot highvoltage 
<ogra> cbx333, yes, AliasVegas decided for it :)
<rodarvus> AliasVegas, also, don't forget that Edubuntu (and Ubuntu) is a community - different opinions are welcome, (sane) arguments are welcome - do not take jsgotangco -1 as personal (it wasn't), but also don't let it get you down
<AliasVegas> Thanks :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<highvoltage> i think we need to get a community member who takes care of website content specifically
<ogra> highvoltage, go ahead
<cbx333> indeed.....if I remember corectly LaserJock was skeptical about giving me a +1
<highvoltage> i have lots of ideas, but not enough time to manage or implement it
<ogra> highvoltage, acesureas has fond some bugs ...
<cbx333> highvoltage: sounds like a good idea
<HedgeMage> I have to cut out... phone call
* HedgeMage waves
<ogra> he's never in #edubuntu but in #ltsp
<cbx333> did you have anyone in mind?
<ogra> cia HedgeMage 
<highvoltage> so does a few other people, i would like to see someone manage a website content team in the same way that the art team would be managed.
<ogra> *ciao even
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: if you need help with that, I can do some interim stuff until we get someone permanent, or help train, since I do so much drupal stuff already
<highvoltage> cbx333, no, i don't
<ogra> highvoltage, good idea
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I don't think I can commit to it as a permanent just-me thing though
<pygi> highvoltage, I can also help, along with hedge
<highvoltage> it's just something i thought i'd mention, so that people can start scouting :)
<HedgeMage> now I'm really going 
* HedgeMage waves
<cbx333> bye HedgeMage 
<AliasVegas> bye :)
<ogra> highvoltage, we'll see that we get that call in the next ubuntu news
<cbx333> right we gotta dash now too guys
<cbx333> see y'all later on
<highvoltage> ogra, good idea, let's do that
<Lure> Riddell: can you change bug 52021 to wishlist?
<ogra> cbx333, AliasVegas thanks for attending !
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52021 in kdeadmin "Does not support 802.1x/WPA management" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52021
<cbx333> np
<jsgotangco> are we done?
<highvoltage> i think so
<AliasVegas> it was a pleasure! :)
<ogra> urgh, since when does Ubugtu bug stuff in here ? 
<highvoltage> ogra?
<rodarvus> AliasVegas, thanks for attending, and again, welcome, and congratulations!
<AliasVegas> Thanks for the kind words guys
<ogra> yes, meeting adjourned 
* Lure is sorry - wrong channel
<mhz> highvoltage: if you have a detail of stuff you need help with, I am sure some Tecnocimiento people could help out
<highvoltage> goodnight everyone
<cbx333> nn
<ogra> night highvoltage 
<LaserJock> cya highvoltage 
<highvoltage> mhz, thanks, let's chat tomorrow :)
<highvoltage> cya lamont 
<ogra> thanks all
<mhz> okis
<mhz> sure
<mhz> nn
<highvoltage> erm... LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra> heh
<rodarvus> ogra, meeting is over yet?
* mhz is at 17:15
<jsgotangco> its 05:15 here =)
<ogra> rodarvus, yep
<rodarvus> ok, lets continue on #edubuntu then
<ogra> i'm at :09 only
<ogra> wher do you guys take the 6 mins ? 
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm at 14:10 now
* mhz gets back to #edubuntu and also slaps himself for not getting that meeting was here instead
<Seveas> ogra, I had requests for ubugtu to do bug things in here too
<ogra> Seveas, its fine, i was just surprised
<Seveas> hehe 
<ogra> i'll remember not to put lists of bugs intop my weekly reports in the distro team meeting :P
<Seveas> ogra, if people want it off, it'll be turned off
<ogra> i dont care :)
<ogra> i was just surprised, honestly :)
<Seveas> ompaul thought it was enough to file a bug ;)
<ompaul> Seveas, I just wanted to *bug* you
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-06
* HedgeMage peeks in
<pygi> what HedgeMage ?? :P
<HedgeMage> lol
<pygi> just you laugh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Jul 19:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<shawarma> @schedule copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 06 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 06 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu
<jsgotangco> whats with these crazy scheds in my timezone =)
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 06 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
<GNAM> wow ubuntu develpment team
<neuralis> @schedule Boston
<neuralis> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 06 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Jul 19:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 23:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 22:00: Marketing Team
<pygi> sivang, ou are here?
<pygi> you*
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team
<DonLorenzo> HedgeMage will be joining the meeting in a few minutes. She wishes to express her apology for not being on time.
<RobinShepheard> pygi, should we be making a start as we only have 45 mins until the next meeting
<pygi> RobinShepheard, let's wait for Hedge
<RobinShepheard> ok
<jjesse_> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 16:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team
<DonLorenzo> pygi, HedgeMage may be several minutes. ... I talked to her via cell phone when I posted before. She suggested you start without her.
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 15:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team
<sladen> @schedule Europe/London
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 21:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: Marketing Team
<pygi> ok, so considering Susan isn't here let's continue...
<pygi> who is here for the meeting?
<RobinShepheard> me
<joycejjj> I'm a token educator - Susan asked me to join you.  
<LaserJock> I'm kinda around
<RobinShepheard> pygi, this meeting doesn't look so popular as normal
<pygi> RobinShepheard, seems like two or three people will be working on cookbook once again (same happened with dapper)
<RobinShepheard> well I am willing to lend a hand a do my bit 
<dholbach> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team
<RobinShepheard> so what is the plan of action then??
<RobinShepheard> I noticed that the wiki page for the meeting had not been updated to list the meeting
<pygi> RobinShepheard, plan of action is likely that me and Susan will make final decision on name and chapters probably
<RobinShepheard> as in today??
<pygi> as in "probably not today"
<RobinShepheard> lol
<RobinShepheard> pygi, how are you going to organise the templates for the docbook format or are we going to submit plain text and then markup later
<HedgeMage> Hey, folks
<RobinShepheard> hiya HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> A thousand apologies for my tardiness, we had a family quasi-emergency
<HedgeMage> Where are we?
<Amaranth> oh, i stumbled into another meeting
<RobinShepheard> we aren't really at the mo
<HedgeMage> Hi Amaranth :)
<Amaranth> hi
<RobinShepheard> nothing has happened as yet
<HedgeMage> Who all is here?
<Amaranth> next meeting is in 20 minutes, might want to hurry :)
* HedgeMage looks for awake people
<joycejjj> <-----awake
<HedgeMage> Well, our first order of business was to be a vote on the new name for cookbook
* RobinShepheard is also awake and ready to vote
<HedgeMage> suggestions from last meeting were "The Edubuntu Handbook" "The Edubuntu Guide"  "Edubuntu Guidebook" and "Edubuntu for Beginners"
<HedgeMage> please give other suggestions now if you have them, when that's done we'll take comments, then vote
<Amaranth> Edubuntu Handbook sounds nice
<ogra> The Edubuntu Book ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage, how about edubuntu for everyone
<LaserJock> hmm, that sounds good too
<Amaranth> Don't want to make it sound like a beginner thing.
<RobinShepheard> edubuntu made easy is proabaly not possible as there is a range of made easy books
<Amaranth> It's for beginners but useful as a reference too, right?
<HedgeMage> right, same reason we struck "The Ultimate Guide to Edubuntu"
* HedgeMage nods
<ogra> Edubuntu Bible :P
<Amaranth> hehe
<RobinShepheard> Amaranth, but you need to make it approachable for beginners as well
<Amaranth> RobinShepheard: Edubuntu Handbook does that too, I think.
<RobinShepheard> true
<RobinShepheard> no arguments about that
* HedgeMage ponders
<pygi> +1 for Edubuntu handbook
<RobinShepheard> another +1 for Edubuntu Handbook
<pygi> Amaranth, LaserJock , ogra ?
<Amaranth> I believe I already voted. ;)
<HedgeMage> What about "Computing With Edubuntu" or something like that... hrm doesn't have the best ring to it I guess
<RobinShepheard> handbook does sound professional
* ogra is only lurking :)
<pygi> Amaranth, do +1 or -1 :P
<Amaranth> yeah, i didn't write any of it
<pygi> ogra, still, vote pls :)
<DonLorenzo> to be a bit pedantic, "Edubuntu User Guide and Reference"
<HedgeMage> ogra: you can vote, if you're interested :)
<ogra> +1 then
<LaserJock> I like Handbook as well
<Amaranth> +1 for Edubntu Handbook, then
<RobinShepheard> DonLorenzo, a bit of a mouthful
<pygi> HedgeMage, that's +4 on Handbook
<pygi> that's fine
<HedgeMage> Okay, it looks like "The Edubuntu Handbook" it is :)
<Amaranth> -The :)
<HedgeMage> "Edubuntu Handbook" :)
<HedgeMage> okay
<RobinShepheard> cool
<HedgeMage> next item of business:
<Amaranth> cool
<HedgeMage> Divvying up chapters to work on
* Amaranth hides
<RobinShepheard> I am quite happy to work on install of workstation
<HedgeMage> Everyone please reference https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/EdgyOutline  Which has the chapter list for this edition
<Amaranth> 10 minutes
<mdz> are you folks almost finished here?  we need this channel for the dev team meeting shortly
<HedgeMage> I'm asking that no one sign up for more than 3 chapters at first... you can take more when the first batch are done
<HedgeMage> mdz: almost, we'll be out of your hair in time :)
<RobinShepheard> I am happy to do the standalone and maybe the basic netwoking
<HedgeMage> The sign-up sheet will be at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/EdgyTasks in about five minutes
<HedgeMage> We're working in docbook, but if you are not comfortable with it, feel free to save in .rtf or .odt or plaintext and one of the editors will change to docbook for you
<pygi> mdz, will do, we'll try to move somewhere else
<HedgeMage> Please email submissions to HedgeMage@binaryredneck.net with "Handbook" in the title somewhere so that I can get them committed to the svn doc repo... this is a temporary arrangement while we get some commit privs worked out
<HedgeMage> This is a good time for questions since I know I've gone quickly :)
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage, what about templates or fonts for use in docs
<HedgeMage> I'm adjourning to #edubuntu if there's anything further grab me there
<sladen> 5 minutes, can the Edubuntu people wind up please
<RobinShepheard> see you in edubuntu then
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: docbook is styled after the fact so don't worry about fonts... I'll put a sample chapter template together if that will be helpful
<pitti> hi
* HedgeMage waves
<HedgeMage> By guys
* HedgeMage waves
<sfllaw> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 16:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team
<pitti> hey sfllaw 
<mdz> everyone here?
<dholbach> yes
<sivang> me here, but still drafting system-clean-up-tool 
* fabbione is
* heno is here
<sfllaw> Well, I am.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team
<mdz> Kamion and doko are excused, infinity I believe is still on holiday
<dholbach> mvo is on holiday too
<Riddell> hi
<iwj> I'm here.
<rodarvus> I'm here
<dholbach> doko wanted me to do phone-to-irc gateway, but i couldn't reach him *shrug*
<mdz> fabbione,Mithrandir,BenC,ogra: ping
* fabbione is here
<mdz> ah, I see fabbione and heno now
<fabbione> :)
<BenC> mdz: pong
<ogra> pong
<mdz> anyone seen Mithrandir?
<GNAM> hi algor, manichinos
<fabbione> i am texting him
<manichinos> hi :-D
<mdz> dholbach: doko said he would email an update but I didn't receive one; did he send it to you instead?
<mdz> oh, I found it
<dholbach> mdz: no, as i said he wanted me to do phone-to-irc gateway, but i couldn't reach him
<fabbione> mdz: Mith is on his way here
<mdz> ok
<mdz> we're going in random order for extra excitement
<mdz> Keybuk: you're first
<Keybuk> mdz: I don't have a pre-pasted plan, because I wasn't sure what we're supposed to actually be saying
<Keybuk> this-week: merges, driving soyuz by hand, buildd stuff
<mdz> Keybuk: I explained in the email what was expected; the usual status update + spec status
<mdz> Keybuk: you have 5 specs approved and targeted for edgy; are there any more pending?
<Keybuk> mdz: but we're not supposed to be doing spec work this week, no? :)
<Keybuk> mdz: nope, that's the set
<mdz> Keybuk: hmm?
<mdz> today was the deadline for getting specs approved for edgy, so it's a good time to review where they stand
<mdz> Keybuk: in the past week you made MOM a lot better :-P
<mdz> Keybuk: is the implementation status up to date on all of your specs?
<Keybuk> mdz: yes, the implementation status is up to date
<mdz> ok, thanks
<Keybuk> dash-as-bin-sh is implemented
<Keybuk> the others are either unstarted or started
<mdz> seb128: next
<seb128> This week:
<seb128> - mails catching up
<seb128> - started bugs catching up
<seb128> - GTK 2.10, work on GNOME 2.15.3
<seb128> - syncs from Debian
<seb128> .
<seb128> Next week:
<seb128> - keep catching up on bugs and syncs from Debian
<seb128> - GNOME 2.15.4
<mdz> seb128: how are you doing on the merge?
<seb128> pretty good, GNOME merges should be done for 2.15.4 next week
<mdz> ok, great
<mdz> we're doing very well on merge progress
<seb128> :)
<mdz> if we maintain a good pace, we should meet our target next week
<seb128> cool
<mdz> only 166 to go
<mdz> 165
<fabbione> mdz: the MoM doesn't show X
<ogra> just to mention thats a lot of Keybuks fault :)
<fabbione> add another 90 or so :)
<ogra> (that we are this fast)
<pitti> fabbione: main-manual.html
<mdz> fabbione: because it's a mess with mismatched  .origs?
<ogra> new mom is awesome
<mdz> yes, well done Keybuk
<fabbione> mdz: it's a mess. <- full stop :)
<fabbione> pitti: not all of them show up there either
<mdz> thanks seb128
<mdz> Colin is next, he emailed an update
<mdz> seed-cleanup: Implemented. (People responsible for Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu seeds still need to merge the seed changes, which will probably be complicated; contact me if there are things you don't understand there.)
<mdz> ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Approved.
<mdz> misc: All other specs approved. Merges going fairly well (have been helping out a bit with the X merge). Also in the middle of an oem-config reorganisation which is a prerequisite for (a) my sanity and (b) part of a Google Summer of Code project.
<mdz> next-week: Finish merges and oem-config reorganisation. Get the installer (at least d-i, and with any luck Ubiquity too) working in Edgy.
<Keybuk> mdz: it's because the source packages first appeared in Debian, and when they appeared in Ubuntu, they had higher version numbers -- so there's no base for the merge
<mdz> Riddell,ogra,janimo: note the seed-cleanup bit above
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i have it in my list for next week already 
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Riddell: ack?
<Riddell> yep
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> rodarvus: next?
<rodarvus> sure
<rodarvus> * specs:
<rodarvus>  - fully-automatic-swap-server is approved
<rodarvus>  - ltsp-login-and-session-handling and edubuntu-xfce-desktop are under review (that will hopefully change very soon now)
<rodarvus> * past week work:
<rodarvus>  - corrections/updates/clarifications to specs above
<rodarvus>  - Merges: getting up to speed with Ubuntu X packaging, X merges/sync (many many thanks to fabbione, Mithrandir and Kamion)
<rodarvus>  - Edubuntu: EC meeting, new artwork lead was chosen (AliasVegas)
<rodarvus>  - OLPC: catching up with development, mailing lists and code + received confirmation of developer board
<rodarvus> * next week:
<rodarvus>  - continue X merges/syncs (fabbione has status page at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/x-pkgs)
<rodarvus>  - hopefully merge/sync other unrelated/unclaimed bits
<mdz> rodarvus: I'll help you with those two specs today; what time do you leave/sleep?
<rodarvus> I'll sleep in 7-8 hours from now
<rodarvus> so, plenty of time
<mdz> ok, I'll have about 4 hours after the meeting before I need to go
<mdz> rodarvus: are there any specs other than those three which are potential targets for you for edgy?
<rodarvus> I'd also like to thank fabbione, Mithrandir and Kamion for all the help with X merging
<rodarvus> I think I'm finally catching up to speed with it
<rodarvus> mdz, no
<mdz> rodarvus: that should leave you some time for X ;-)
<pitti> rodarvus: do you think you can put mesa on your list, too? it's currently 'my' merge, but I have no clue about it
<rodarvus> there's stuff (LTSP related) I'd like to do, but they weren't specced before UDS (well, I joined one week before UDS :) )
<rodarvus> pitti, sure, I'll take it
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks rodarvus
<mdz> doko is next, he emailed an update
<mdz> it's long
<mdz> status this week:
<mdz> - OOo: 2.0.3 build, 2.0.2 security fixes for dapper and breezy (need building and testing)
<mdz> - syncs: about 130 python syncs from unstable, all other syncs for main with me as uploader done
<mdz> - specs: update specs, new python2.5 spec.
<mdz> - SoC: a bit admin stuff
<mdz> next week:
<mdz> - more python syncs, check for build failures in synced packages
<mdz> - finish packaging hints, we need it now.
<mdz> edgy-toolchain status:
<mdz> - required topics mostly done, the remaining topics are marked as optional, and may move to edgy+1-toolchain roadmap
<mdz> edgyplusone-toolchain status:
<mdz> - spec not yet approved
<mdz> - we currently lack a possibility to upload packages to a common area, currently testing is done with gcc-snapshot for bugs/compatibility; gcc-4.2 packages would overwrite the 4.1 based packages in edgy.
<mdz> - need to know when a prototype of the automatic-rebuild spec will be available,
<mdz> I hadn't seen python2.5; I'll target and prioritize
<mdz> Kamion approved it already
<mdz> hmm, it needs clarification though
<mdz> I'll talk with doko about it tomorrow
<mdz> edgplusone-toolchain is approved now, since he sent that email
<mdz> and targeted for edgy
<mdz> heno: next
<heno>  * Approved this week: sudo-admin-atspi, sok, livecd-access, edgy-content, xubuntu-accessibility
<heno>  * Implemented this week: access-ubuntu-com at http://access.ubuntu.com
<heno>  * sok: Made two new keyboard layouts and did testing. The basic keyboard now works nicely IMO. At some point I should speak with those who know about non-latin input and the xkb system.
<heno>  * forum-integration: talking with the forum team about a new theme that matches our main site better, including using the same tabs 
<heno>  * compiz-mag: Slow progress ATM. Will be targeted for edgy+1, though we may get something into universe for edgy.
<heno>  * Other: helping newz2000 get started
<heno>  * NEXT WEEK: more webmaster tutoring, try to get compiz-mag moving better forward, prepare live CD boot images and sounds
<mdz> sok is also approved and edgy-targeted now
<heno> yep, thanks
<mdz> heno: forum-integration is set to informational; should it not be?
<heno> yes it should. I guess I should mention that under 'other' if anything
<heno> all the specs are marked and targeted correctly now AFAICS
<mdz> ok, great
<sivang> I lost net connection for some secs, back now
<mdz> thanks heno
<mdz> pitti: next
<pitti> apt-get-debug-symbols:
<pitti>  - pkg-create-dbgsym package is in edgy, announced it and called for testing
<pitti>  - apart from bug fixes, this spec is done from my side, ball is in Soyuz field now
<pitti> automated-problem-reports:
<pitti>  - tried various methods of reducing the coredump with objcopy without perfect results so far; just bzip2'ing the dump gives drastic shrinkage, though, so I'll just start with that
<pitti>  - plan for next week: write first version of backend (crash interception and report generation)
<pitti> gcc-ssp: enabled in gcc since last Friday, no reported regressions so far; I set it to 'deployed' since not all packages have actually been rebuilt since then; nothing to do any more about this for now
<pitti> auto-unmount-notifications:
<pitti>  - not started yet; not intrusive, so I'll deal with it after I'm done with my archive-wide specs
<pitti> non-spec work done this week:
<pitti>  - merges: did all my merges except for mesa (beyond my abilities) and an updated cupsys merge (still to come, needs some serious thinking); also grabbed some merges from infinity, chmj, and a few others
<pitti>  - google SoC mid-term review
<pitti>  - couple of security updates
<pitti>  - cups update for dapper
<pitti>  - started gnutls12 -> 13 and libtasn1-2 -> 3 transitions; will finish that later since most of the transitions will be done through regular gnome and other uploads
<pitti> plan for next week:
<pitti>  - help out others with merges
<pitti>  - catch up with bug mail
<pitti>  - work on automated-problem-reports
<pitti>  - some outstanding security updates
<mdz> pitti: any edgyish specs which aren't approved yet?
<pitti> oh, I forgot, my specs are in good shape
<pitti> approval/edgy tag and time estimates are correct
<pitti> s/correct/current/ for the estimates :)
<mdz> and implementation status?
<pitti> too
<mdz> pitti: are the dapper printing updates already prepared?
<Mithrandir> present now, sorry about forgetting about the meeting. :-/
<pitti> mdz: yes, I'm waiting for your ack for the 1.2.2 bug fixes I added
<pitti> mdz: well, cups is ready, ivoks is workign on gutenprint now
<pitti> but that's independent
<pitti> and we'll discuss hplip again
<mdz> pitti: do I have an email about that?  Idon't see it
<pitti> mdz: shall we ressign apt-get-debug-symbols to some soyuz guy now to reflect it better?
<pitti> mdz: no, IRC ping, I can mail you if you want
<pitti> mdz: I just pastebin'ed you a small list of changes
<mdz> pitti: I'll care for apt-get-debug-symbols and soyuz, thanks
<mdz> pitti: I missed that; please do email
<pitti> will do
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<mdz> BenC: next
<BenC> libata-for-all-disks: IN PROGRESS: Libata is in the kernel, and some modules are being built. However, they are currently blacklisted until we test them and get the UUID conversion done.
<BenC> linux-kernel-crash-dump: IN PROGRESS: Starting integration of kdump/kexec into kernel. Hopefully will be available in stages over the next few kernel uploads.
<BenC> cfq-by-default: DONE: 2.6.17-4.6 implements this feature now.
<BenC> SPECS general: Status on all specs up-to-date
<BenC> ABAT: Stalled on IBM's side. Waiting to see what progress they've made
<BenC> Bugs: Steady flow, but manageable still.
<BenC> General kernel status: So far 2.6.17 seems pretty stable for most ppl. There are a couple of major issues, but they are isolated, and should be easily reconciled. Linux-restricted-modules and linux-meta now reflect 2.6.17 as the default kernel in Edgy.
<mdz> BenC: who's working on the probe-for-root bit?
<BenC> wasn't aware of the spec
<mdz> BenC: that's the name for the UUID mounting
<fabbione> wasn't probe-for-root done dapper?
<fabbione> in dapper
<BenC> yeah, UUID is a bit different I think
<mdz> fabbione: only for removable devices
<fabbione> it was marked as implemented by i don't remember by who
<Mithrandir> fabbione: it was, but the transition to put uuids in fstab isn't done.
<mdz> we deferred the rest
<fabbione> Mithrandir: ok
<Mithrandir> I implemented the d-i bits, but it's explicitly only enabled for USB/firewire devices.
<BenC> the UUID thing is spec'd out in libata-for-all-disks, since it was dependent on i
<mdz> Mithrandir: will you enable it by default for edgy?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<Mithrandir> mdz: I think that's in the spec, and it's a trivial change.  I can do it, sure.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> BenC: can you do the migration for upgrades?
<mdz> or are you blocked on it?
<BenC> I can do the migration, but I'd really like someone to code review it
<mdz> Keybuk: can you assist with that?
<BenC> could easily screw up some systems if we don't get it right the first time
<Keybuk> mdz: libata?  I believe it's part-assigned to me -- especially themigration stuff
<mdz> Keybuk: the migration specifically, yes
<BenC> Keybuk was supposed to do migration, but really I can start on it if need be
<mdz> so long as it's on someone's todo list
<mdz> I'm happy
<mdz> BenC: what's your plan for bugs regarding 2.6.15->2.6.17?
<mdz> are you going to ask the reporters to reconfirm with 2.6.17?
<mdz> that'd be a lot easier once we have a milestone, of course
<BenC> over the next two weeks I'm going to push some bugs to target 2.6.17 so they can be verified in edgy
<Mithrandir> mdz: knot-1 is planned in a week.  I wonder if we'll make it, but we have to start sometime..
<mdz> [TXT]  edgy_probs.html         06-Jul-2006 20:44  160K  
<mdz> impressive
<fabbione> all python and x-dev are basically uninstallable
<mdz> python is upgradeable now though
<fabbione> yeah probably
<mdz> anyway, we'll see what happens next week
<mdz> BenC: thanks
<mdz> iwj: next
<BenC> thanks as well
<iwj> have been doing: merges, spec reviews etc.
<iwj> firefox merge: still broken but I think I know what the problem is
<iwj> merges: mine done except for firefox and apparently gs-gpl (which I thought I'd done but perhaps I didn't upload it)
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment: now BLOCKED on xen-edgy
<iwj> xen-edgy: some work done by Chuck Short aka zul on the kernel; nothing by me yet; I need to check on the current status
<iwj> package-dependency-field-breaks: no further progress this week
<iwj> suggest-packages-for-filetypes: mvo has done some minor changes and I need to pick it up
<iwj> REQUEST: Merges become a lot easier if you make good patches and are sure to feed them upstream and/or to Debian.  Ideally, nearly every merge should be a sync, surely ?  When it's not we should consider whether to chase upstream and/or Debian again.
<mdz> iwj: does the firefox merge include the human theme addition?
<iwj> IMPORTANT: I propose that we move this meeting to 0700, 1500, 2300 UTC.  Thanks to the nine people who replied with info.  Sorry that first my mail to warthogs had various wrong dates and times.
<iwj> No.
<iwj> The theme is quite separate.
<fabbione> iwj: ++ on the meeting.
<iwj> That is, the theme is in a different package.
<mdz> I acked your meeting times proposal; does anyone wish to object now?
<mdz> iwj: I mean the change to use the theme by default
<iwj> mdz: No, that's not in this one but the diff is trivial.
<pitti> new time++
<mdz> iwj: if it's trivial, please add it
* dholbach is happy with the times
<iwj> I mean, _really trivial_.
<BenC> meeting time ++
<ogra> ++
<iwj> mdz: I'll do it in two uploads just because I'm paranoid.
<iwj> I want an easy-to-revert upload for it I think.
<mdz> so long as it isn't delayed
<iwj> But it won't take any actual time to do two rather than one.  My computer can grind for a bit.
<mdz> ok
<iwj> Noted.
<mdz> sounds like the new meeting times are a hit, let's go ahead with it
<iwj> Excellent.
<mdz> iwj: please mail the Fridge folks and ask them to update the calendar accordinlgy
<mdz> accordingly
<iwj> mdz: Ack.
<mdz> fridge-devel@lists I think
<Keybuk> also we should set out the policy for the pre-meeting report paste
<Amaranth> ouch, i can only make it to one of those meetings :/
<sfllaw> iwj: When does this start to take effect?
<Amaranth> oh well, i don't count
<Keybuk> and indicate where those are to go
<mdz> sfllaw: next week
<iwj> Keybuk: We were expecting sfllaw to do that, weren't we ?
<sfllaw> Indeed.
<pitti> Keybuk: preferably on an ubuntu wiki page
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: we also need somebody to whip the slackers.
<fabbione> sfllaw: can we move that wiki thingy to the public wiki? or do we want to keep it internal?
<sfllaw> Can we wait until it's my turn so we don't delay the meeting?
<iwj> sfllaw: your turn> Good idea.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> iwj: any specs which ought to be targeted for edgy which aren't approved yet?
<iwj> No.
<mdz> ok
<LaserJock> iwj: what do you want to do with developer-referenfce?
<mdz> regarding feeding patches upstream, we have a plan for more automation there which is waiting for a new soyuz feature
<iwj> LaserJock: I was going to do my other specs and then see if I had time for it.
<iwj> mdz: Has this been discussed with Debian ?
<mdz> iwj: yes
<iwj> Excellent.
<mdz> long thread on debian-devel
<mdz> iwj: thanks
<mdz> ogra: next
<iwj> I must have missed it somehow.  Maybe it looked like a flamewar.
<ogra> * last-week: started moving ltsp to a common buildsystem (autoconf/automake), shuffled ltsp branches around so we have the right structure now, merged: gartoon, fuse, iftraf, pwgen, rss-glx, tuxmath, tuxpaint, xscreensaver, did SoC mid term review
<ogra> * outstanding merges: kdeedu (currently building the final package (since 1,5h, kudos to Riddell)), kino, nessus-plugins, xfonts-terminus (waiting for x to be ready for font merges)
<ogra> * next-week: finishing merges, several meetings with the debian ltsp guys planned to finish the common buildsystem move before UVF, voip meeting with scott balneaves about packaging basics in monday, getting the edubuntu-seeds ready for the first milestone CD, grabbing orphaned merges, uploading the first version of willowng (the SoC work)
<ogra> * specs: 
<ogra> - student-control-panel-completion: (Needs Review)
<ogra> - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (not started yet, nedds more update for scott balneaves (planned, see above))
<ogra> - ltsp-convergence: (common buildsystem started (see above))
<ogra> - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (not started)
<ogra> Hawkwind, strike kdeedu ... it just finished successfull :))
<ogra> oh
<ogra> s/Hawkwind/HA/
<mdz> speaking of fonts, is someone on xfonts-utils?
<fabbione> mdz: we need to finish the libs first
<mdz> ok
<ogra> yep, its on fabbiones list
<mdz> ogra: how did the ltsp/bzr meeting go?
<fabbione> mdz: and fonts need some special attention because Debian is using yet again another fonts path
<mdz> fabbione: garrr
<ogra> mdz, only partially ... long story, sbalneav was called away by his boss after 45mins
<mdz> ogra: which specs should be targeted for edgy but are not yet approved+targeted?
<ogra> student control panel
<mdz> ok, I'll help with that today
* ogra hands iwj a flower, we had a bad day through each other, that shouldnt have happened
<mdz> is everything ok?
<iwj> ogra: Sorry about that.  Maybe we should get someone else to review your specs.
<ogra> on my side it is now, i've calmed down 
<iwj> Next time, I mean.
* fabbione blames the heat
<mdz> ok
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: next
<ogra> yes, probably ... but  i'm willing to try once again, we should overcome this ... arent we pofessionals ? ;)
<Mithrandir> misc: merges, particularly the X merge.  Also been impersonating Adam and Charles for merging.  Also reviewed a couple of specs.  Also uploaded Opera to dapper-commercial
<Mithrandir> sane-installer-keyboard: no progress, some loose discussion in #debian-boot about it
<Mithrandir> live-cd-stacked-filesystems: no progress apart from being told about squashfs supporting those directly without unionfs and will look into that
<Mithrandir> live-cd-write-as-you-go: blocked on packet-writing which I became aware of recently
<Mithrandir> packet-writing: needs to be reviewed and fixed up for edgy ASAP.  I'll do this before going to bed
<Mithrandir> livecd-sessions: no progress
<mdz> ogra,iwj: let's talk about it after the meeting
<Mithrandir> livec-cd-share-live-cd: bumped back to drafting, haven't had time to look at this.
<Mithrandir> next week: more merges, get X into shape, get knot 1 out.
<iwj> mdz: OK.
<Mithrandir> I'll mail d-d-a about the knot-1 freeze.
<Mithrandir> uh, u-d-a
<mdz> heh 
<dholbach> Mithrandir: when do you think the freeze will be? roughly?
<mdz> Mithrandir: anything pending on the spec approval+targeting front?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I need to get the packet-writing approved as I said.  I'm tempted to postpone livec-cd-share-live-cd unless I can get it approved tomorrow.
<Mithrandir> dholbach: well, I'd like it to happen on wednesday, but UVF is in exactly a week, so I need to do something clever.
<mdz> Mithrandir: the other livecd features seem more interesting to me
<mdz> Mithrandir: I'll go over packet-writing with you later tonight if you're around
<Mithrandir> mdz: ogra and the ltsp people seem crazy about the share-live-cd one since it can be used for making a ltsp live cd.
<Mithrandir> mdz: it's almost 2300 here, but I'll fix that up, so that'd be great.
<mdz> Mithrandir: crazy enough to help with the spec or implementation? :-P
<ogra> (it would enable edubuntu to ship on the desktop CD)
<ogra> as a sideeffect
<ogra> Mithrandir, how big is that ?
<mdz> please discuss after the meeting, we're short on time
<ogra> ok
<Mithrandir> ogra: the spec is mostly minor stuff.  I have an idea how to do the implementation, but post-meeting.
<mdz> Mithrandir: is opera ready to be added to app-install-data-commercial?  I don't remember seeing it there
<Mithrandir> mdz: I think so.  I just uploaded it and haven't seen an ACCEPT message from the queue even, so I don't know where it sits.
<mdz> ah, ok
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> dholbach: next
<dholbach> specs approved: easier-motuing (no progress); automating-artwork (no progress - apart from what's mentioned in the spec already); galago-in-ubuntu (started, investigating ftbfs of one lib)
<dholbach> spec which needs work: future-of-gst (conversations with carlos have happened during guadec, list of tasks identified, gst 2.15 uploaded, but not built yet (needed to indicate and demonstrate), spec needs to be finalized)
<dholbach> this week: merges and updates of gnome (updates: 80% done, amount of merges good-looking), hell lot of bug triage, trying to be mvo as much I can, make my inbox love me again, SoC review (done)
<dholbach> next week: gnome 2.15.4, bug triage, starting on easier-motuing, automating-artwork (and updates and splitting of the packages), trying to be mvo as much I can
<dholbach> week after that: HUG DAY! sfllaw?
<mdz> dholbach: we can talk about future-of-gst a bit later if you're here
<mdz> otherwise maybe tomorrow
<dholbach> tomorrow would be cool
<mdz> the list of specs to drive last-minute today is getting long
<dholbach> seb128: what do you think?
<mdz> ok
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> de rien
<mdz> sfllaw: next
<seb128> dholbach: tomorrow
<sfllaw> Done: Bug triage, SoC mentoring, ubuntu-qa vetting, spec writing, scouting for new hires.
<sfllaw> Todo: Bug triage, ubuntu-qa vetting, spec writing, SoC mentoring, test plans for edgy specs.
<sfllaw> Specs:
<sfllaw> - multi-machine-testing-infrastructure (Review)
<sfllaw> - edgy-testing (drafting)
<sfllaw> - drinking-from-the-firehose (drafting)
<sfllaw> Also, I'd like some feedback on http://www.canonical.com/DistroTeamMeetings
<sfllaw> .
<sfllaw> STATISTICS
<sfllaw> ==========
<mdz> sfllaw: since you'll need to poke people to get those pastes anyway, could you take responsibility for announcing the meeting 24+hours prior as I did this week?
<sfllaw> Since last week...
<sfllaw> Unconfirmed and unassigned bugs of severity >= normal: 2284 -> 2760
<sfllaw> Untriaged bugs: 723 -> 861
<sfllaw> Needs Info bugs: 1753 -> 1794
<sfllaw> Dapper bugs: 75 -> 74
<sfllaw> Edgy bugs: 3 -> 4
<sfllaw> Bugs without packages: 1502 -> 1533
<sfllaw> iwj: Is it the 7h00 UTC meeting next week?
<sfllaw> People have suggested that I move DistroTeamMeetings to the public wiki.
<sfllaw> Uhm, OK.
<iwj> sfllaw: Yes.
<sfllaw> Yay.  It's a whole hour better than it was before.
<sfllaw> :)
<pitti> sfllaw: public++ (#u-m is public and publicly logged, too)
<mdz> DistroTeamMeetings doesn't seem to exist
<sivang> rigth
<Keybuk> mdz: s/www/wiki/
<sfllaw> Sorry.
<mdz> ah
<mdz> sfllaw: what's the plan for your specs?  you don't have anything targeted for edgy yet
<mdz> drinking-from-the-firehose is informational, yes?
<sfllaw> Edgy-testing is targetted for Edgy.  As is drinking-from-the-firehose.
<mdz> neither is on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+specs
<sfllaw> :(
<mdz> we're only targeting specs once they're approved
<mdz> edgy-testing is marked informational as well
<mdz> though there is indirect work associated with it
<mdz> let's discuss after the meeting what to do
<sfllaw> OK.
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> Riddell: next
<Riddell> done: merges, Kubuntu packages in main should be done by tomorrow although some poking of buildds will be needed and some main inclusion reports todo.  universe also progressing well thanks to MOTU
<Riddell> next week: kubuntu-launchpad-integration and if time kubuntu-easy-zeroconf.  Knot 1?
<Riddell> specs: all approved except kubuntu-file-transfer-dialogue (not too important), thanks reviewers
<iwj> Are we running very late ?  It's difficult to tell in random order ...
<mdz> iwj: almost done
<mdz> fabbione and sivang
<mdz> Riddell: are you going to try to get k-f-t-d through or defer it?  you have a bunch of stuff already, though some of it may not be for you personally
<mdz> Riddell: e.g., isn't mornfall implementing the adept stuff?
<Riddell> mdz: kubuntu-file-transfer-dialogue should be close to though, kamion only had a small comment for it
<Riddell> yes, the adept ones should be assigned to mornfall (although he's not decided if he'll do it as a bounty yet)
<Riddell> I don't expect to have time for kubuntu-file-transfer-dialogue
<mdz> Riddell: ok, please reassign them as appropriate so it's clear who's doing what
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<mdz> fabbione: next
<Riddell> also kwwii says he's unlikely to get kubuntu-icons done for edgy
<fabbione> * specs: ubuntu-edgy-cluster and sparc64-port have been approved. Got a thumb up from silbs on the internal spec that is waiting for mdz and/or sabdfl for distro/lp allocation. no other specs are in queue for edgy.
<fabbione> * sparc64-port: My t2000 is temporary busy running the hw certification software for Marc.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-edgy-cluster: Working on GFS2 userland new deps (openais) and coordinating with upstream for a release date. Addressing some 32/64/endianess problems and getting all our patches upstream to reduce the maintainance load (5/8 are up already). No changes from last week.
<fabbione> * last week: completed gcc bug fixing/testing in edgy (sparc), completed the sparc64-port and ubuntu-edgy-cluster specs, done libparted check on sparc for Kamion with no real luck, dovecot regression from breezy to dapper has been addressed to upstream that is working on a solution, basically done all my merges and helping out with X merges. Some minimal mentoring to Rodrigo that's moving his first steps really really fast.
<fabbione> * next week: complete the merges, start working full steam on the other specs, whatever is needed (!= X).
<mdz> fabbione: how long before you disappear?
<fabbione> mdz: -ENOCLUE
<mdz> but soon, no?
<fabbione> mdz: i did ask my wife for an ETA on delivery but she gave me a finger.. not a nice one :)
<mdz> heh
<fabbione> mdz: yes pretty soon
<sivang> hehe
<mdz> fabbione: dovecot -> dapper-updates?
<pitti> fabbione: *crossing fingers*, all the best
<Keybuk> fabbione: can she not cross her legs until UVF? :p
<sivang> fabbione: first child ?
<fabbione> mdz: yes. but we need the fix first for dovecot
<mdz> ok
<fabbione> pitti: thanks :)
<mdz> thanks fabbione
<fabbione> Keybuk: ahhaha
<mdz> sivang?
<fabbione> sivang: yeps
<sivang> mdz: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/make-free-space-wizard might need some more edits before approval, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/home-user-backup seems ready to be approved. Ideally both of them should be targetted for edgy, however if I'm doing system clean up tool alone I'd need some help on some of the implementation.
<mdz> make-free-space-wizard still needs some work I think; I'll look at it today if I have some time
<sivang> basically that's is. I've started tackeling the merge thing this week, however so far only done bitorando and sponsered by slomo_ , might do more in the coming week.
<mdz> home-user-backup should be ready for approval if my comment was addressed
<mdz> sivang: thanks
<sivang> mdz: I believe they were all addressed.
<mdz> any other very quick business?
<mdz> did I miss anyone in the randomness?
<fabbione> sfllaw: moving the stuff from internal to external wiki?
<fabbione> there was only one vote from pitti
<rodarvus> +1
<fabbione> but i do vote for the movement too
<dholbach> sfllaw: hug day in two weeks?
<mdz> that's fine with me; the meeting is public and so the summaries can be as well
<ogra> +1
<iwj> We should move the distro meeting page, definitely.
<fabbione> (the DistroTeammeeting
<sfllaw> What about the DistroTeam page?
<sfllaw> That's sort of sitting by its lonesome in the Canonical wiki.
<mdz> no, that's a separate matter
<sfllaw> Fair enough.
<sfllaw> I'll move it.
<mdz> we don't publish employee data
<sivang> mdz: if you don't have time today, will we be able to address it tomorrow? I'm up whenever you can.
<sfllaw> dholbach: Yes.  A hug day in two weeks would be good.
<mdz> sivang: probably
<mdz> ok, we're over time
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<dholbach> sfllaw: cool
<mdz> adjourned
<dholbach> thanks mdz
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<seb128> tahnk you
<pitti> thanks everyone
<fabbione> thanks guys
<dholbach> see you *wave*
* pitti is happy that the 4am meeting won't take place :)
<ogra> fabbione, crossing my fingers it doesnt come during the football game :)
<rodarvus> thanks guys
<rodarvus> pitti, next meeting will be 4am for me :)
<ogra> fabbione, all the best for both ;)
<seb128> ogra: France will win anyway
<fabbione> ogra: i promised my wife that i will join her at the hospital.. after the match
<pitti> rodarvus: uh :(
* dholbach hugs rodarvus
<rodarvus> but I guess its the best iwj could find, as I'm in the middle of US and Europe timezones
<fabbione> seb128: ahah you wish my little blonde friend
<pitti> rodarvus: I thought you were in spain?
<sivang> fabbione: can't you watch the game from the hospital ? :p
<rodarvus> pitti, no, I'm brazilian
<dholbach> seb128: ++
<iwj> Right, I should be going really.
<fabbione> rodarvus: it's not too bad really.. you get to spend more time with EU and have a lot of free afternoon
<ogra> seb128, i dont think so ... the italians havent had to do much apart from the last match yet
<Amaranth> thinking more about it i can make it to two of those meeting times, until the end of august
<pitti> rodarvus: ah
<fabbione> sivang: eheh
<Amaranth> so, yay
<seb128> fabbione: we already gave you some good lesson in 2000
<iwj> Thanks everyone.  Sorry to those for whom the times are difficult.
<Mithrandir> next meeting is 0700 UTC?
<seb128> fabbione: need to get one again? :)
<rodarvus> fabbione, right, thats the plan indeed :)
<iwj> We'll revisit this in the autumn when the clocks change.
<iwj> TTFN all
<seb128> ogra: France neither
<fabbione> seb128: we will see :)
<ogra> seb128, well :)
* rodarvus cheers for Italia
<fabbione> seb128: i already have my dreams for the final anyway
<pitti> fabbione: heh, I remember (my gf had a good laugh, too)
<rodarvus> don't tell me about france or zidane :D
* sivang cheers for italy as well :) 
* pitti hopes that we'll beat Portugal at least
<pitti> so that we can at least stand in the shadow of Italy and France
<fabbione> pitti: yeah i am showing it to seb too :)
<sivang> pitti: fdsfd
* sladen hopes it'll just hurry up and be over
<sivang> oops
<sivang> sorry
<pitti> sivang: bless you
<sivang> HAHAHA
<simira> fabbione: hey, how's Ulla?
<fabbione> simira: looking like a whale more or less :)
<fabbione> but she is generally ok
<simira> fabbione: any fish soon, then?
<fabbione> a lot of pain here and there but that's normal the last weeks
<fabbione> simira: well it should be within the next week or so
<fabbione> she is due to the 13
<simira> fabbione: exciting. You should take care, then, both of you.
<fabbione> we do :)
<fabbione> that's why i am on the way to sleep
<simira> good night
<Mithrandir> simira: whales don't give birth to fish, but to small whales.
<simira> Mithrandir: ok, but they eat a lot of fish, and some times they swim out again
<fabbione> eheheh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-07
<[Nirvana] > @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 11 Jul 16:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 11 Jul 22:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 21:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-08
<nettogrof> *Restarting (Brb)
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 11 Jul 15:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 14:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> please, if i want become an ubuntu member , must ido something else than add my name to the list before the CC ?
<Sp4rKy> hi raphink
<raphink> yop Sp4rKy
<Sp4rKy> raphink, i ask again my question : if i want become an ubuntu member , must ido something else than add my name to the list before the CC ?
<juliux> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 11 Jul 21:00: Community Council | 12 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 14:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 21:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-02
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<coNP> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 02 2007, 11:16:53 - Next meeting: Desktop Team in 1 hour 43 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<seb128> dholbach: hey ;)
<dholbach> hiya seb128
<Hobbsee> lonely meeting :P
<seb128> anybody here for the desktop team meeting? ;)
<man-di> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 02 2007, 13:01:43 - Current meeting: Desktop Team
<seb128> hey Hobbsee
<dholbach> welcome everybody for a desktop team meeting - who do we have here?
<Hobbsee> hiya
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting is our meeting agenda
<dholbach> and it's very short today
<dholbach> we want to figure out what's on our todo lists for the next two weeks
<dholbach> there'll be 2.19.5 next week
<seb128> indeed
<coNP> hey everyone
<dholbach> anything else on anybody's todo list which we should highlight?
<dholbach> hey coNP
<dholbach> welcome coNP everybody - Aron's been doing amazing work on the team in the last weeks
<seb128> we can also discuss things we can change in the team organisation if you have some suggestions
<dholbach> looks like he got the lion share of gnome 2.19.4 done :-)
<seb128> coNP: good work!
<coNP> thanks dholbach, seb128 :)
<seb128> do we have anybody who would be interested to take special care of a package?
<seb128> like being the "maintainer" or one member of a team of people looking after it?
<Hobbsee> i'm slightly worried about why you're discussing plans for edgy on that agenda...
<dholbach> Hobbsee: 'Old Agendas'
<dholbach> siti has been taking care of ekiga and friends in the last time, which has worked out really really well
<Hobbsee> oh, point
<dholbach> siti: is there any new ekiga release planned anytime soon?
<siti> I think 3.0 is meant to be released in time for the next gnome
<seb128> nice
<dholbach> woah - great
<siti> it's UI is much better1
<siti> !*
<seb128> siti: is ekiga uptodate in gutsy at the moment ?
<siti> it's the latest stable
<dholbach> that'll give us some time to get it tested properly for gutsy release
<seb128> good :)
<seb128> siti: thanks for working on it!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 14:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<Hobbsee> seb128: if you're having maintainers on the gnome side, who is a volunteer, what does that mean about other people being able to upload to it, if the maintainer is inactive?
<seb128> there is a bunch of untriaged bugs on launchpad for ekiga apparently
<siti> yeah, most of the bugs are due to the old ekiga, so I've been lazy...
<siti> almost everyone fixes there problems by updating to 2.0.9
<seb128> Hobbsee: yeah, we don't have any lock, that's just it's easier to know that some people are looking after a package
<dholbach> so setting to needsinfo and asking for confirmation with gutsy would help most of them?
<siti> I think so
<seb128> good
<Hobbsee> seb128: so you dotn have a policy for what happens if someone was doing the regular releases, and then drops off the face of the planet?
<dholbach> ok, maybe we should add that as a 'todo task' to our page
<seb128> should we clean this list on wednesday for the bug day?
<seb128> that seems a reasonable goal
<dholbach> yeah, it sounds like a very good idea
<seb128> Hobbsee: no, we have a wiki page where we list work to be done and claim things we are working on
<Hobbsee> seb128: fair enough
<seb128> we usually update if there is no reaction from the usual maintainer in the next days after a new version
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> interesting, thanks for letting me butt in :)
<seb128> np :)
<seb128> siti: would you be interested to hand on #ubuntu-bugs on wednesday for the bug day and help cleaning the ekiga list?
<siti> I don't know what I am doing on wednesday, but I can start going through the bugs soon
<seb128> k, so let's note this list on the weekly TODO
<dholbach> rock and roll
<seb128> we will try to give an hand and get it cleaned ;)
<dholbach> is the TODO page working OK for everybody?
<siti> thanks
<seb128> another small goal somebody would like to add?
<seb128> so we have
<seb128> - update GNOME to 2.19.5
<seb128> - clean the ekiga list of bugs
<dholbach> - update remaining tarballs
<dholbach> should we add 'regular bug tasks' like "reviewing all bugs wit patches" or "cleaning old needsinfo bugs" or other bug lists on DesktopTeam/Bugs?
<dholbach> of course add:
<dholbach> - get exciting new stuff packaged
<dholbach> ;-)
<seb128> I think we should have a short list of goals for between now and the next meeting
<seb128> and a regular TODO for tasks like cleaning needsinfo, etc
<dholbach> ok, I'll add a "regular tasks" section to the page
<dholbach> maybe we should do the "weekly goals" thing as a wiki include
<dholbach> that way we could have it on the frontpage and on todo
<dholbach> and in other places, where like to plug it
<seb128> looks good
<seb128> you are the wiki master, if you know how to do it ... :)
<dholbach> alrighty, I'll do that
<seb128> thanks
<dholbach> cheers
<seb128> anybody else with ideas for a better organisation, things you would like to work on, things you thing that should be done for gutsy?
<dholbach> hiya fernando
<seb128> hey fernando
<fernando> hey dholbach
<fernando> hey seb128
* coNP does not know the exact schedule of the upstream Gnome release - packaging - sync - merge cycles: is it happening continously towards 2.20 / 7.10 or are there any changes in the meantime?
<seb128> coNP: there is a new GNOME unstable every 2 weeks usually
<seb128> we merge with Debian on start of the new cycle usually and then only when there is changes we want
<seb128> right now we are mostly done with merges for gutsy
<seb128> anything else?
<seb128> anybody with some cools idea or things he wants to work on? ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: replace gnome with kde!  :P
<Hobbsee> ahem.
<seb128> Hobbsee: you are already working on that, aren't you? :p
<Hobbsee> seb128: erm...cant confirm or deny, on the basis that it may incriminate me.
<seb128> doesn't seem to be working though ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: you just wait for KDE 4....
<seb128> you just wait for GNOME 3 :p
<fernando> fight
<Hobbsee> now that has no ETA at all :P
<seb128> ;)
* Hobbsee gets out the lightning bolts... :P
<seb128> k, look like not a lot of other things to add
<seb128> dholbach: ?
<seb128> the meeting was short but we didn't have one for some time
<dholbach> no, not from me - I'd just like us to make an effort to get all the gnome-ish stuff reviewed
<seb128> we have some goals for the coming weeks and we will try to have a better list for next one
<dholbach> I know that REVU is not perfect, but it's what's used mostly these days
<seb128> would be nice if people could add easy goals, or make list of bugs which can be tackled in a bug day like the ekiga one
<seb128> so we can keep going with easy tasks weekly
<seb128> and show that things are done
<seb128> dholbach: right
<dholbach> I can make a list of those and add it to the weekly todo, if you like
<dholbach> link them from there
<dholbach> also for this weeks goals, I'll add all the remaining tarballs, if you don't mind
<seb128> dholbach: no problem
<dholbach> ok super
<coNP> and s/June/July/ :)
<seb128> should we have a page where tasks for the week stay
<dholbach> I'll let you know once it's done
<seb128> and get a green line when they are done
<dholbach> yes, I'll make that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/WeeklyTODO
<dholbach> working on it now
<seb128> cool
<dholbach> should we try to agree on a time and date for next week?
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> next meeting
<dholbach> what about same time in two weeks?
<dholbach> does that work well for everybody?
* coNP goes on holiday then, but it is not a problem for me
* coNP seems to have difficulties in dealing with multiple personalities :)
<seb128> dholbach: not sure it's ideal, that's during GUADEC ;)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<dholbach> ah right
<seb128> 3 weeks?
<dholbach> fine with me, although I'll probably be at ubuntulive
<seb128> dholbach: will you be there in 2 weeks?
<dholbach> no, the week after guadec
<seb128> no, I mean available for a meeting
<seb128> in which case let's do it in 2 weeks
<seb128> you will be around since you don't go to GUADEC
<dholbach> yes, that's fine with me
<seb128> and I'll be around for the next one when you are on holidays
<seb128> I mean be able to join from GUADEC also
<seb128> I expect they will have wireless there ;)
<dholbach> yeah, I should think so :)
<dholbach> ok, let's go with 2 weeks from now, same time
<dholbach> everybody ok with that?
<seb128> yes
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> anything to add? any problems you see at the moment? anything we should make sure to get done soon? anything you'd like to let the team know?
<dholbach> ok, probably not
<dholbach> let's adjourn then
<dholbach> thanks everybody for turning up
<dholbach> let's bring up everything else on ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com then
<dholbach> have a nice day
<seb128> thanks dholbach
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 14:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-03
<dholbach> good morning
<man-di> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 03 2007, 09:08:40 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 9 hours 51 minutes
<shawarma> @schedule London
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 03 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 14:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 14:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-04
<BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 04 Jul 07:00: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 08:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Lure> @schedule ljubljana
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 04 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<allee> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 04 2007, 11:55:15 - Next meeting: Kubuntu Developers in 2 hours 4 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> ***  Welcome to this month's Kubuntu Meeting ****
<Riddell> I have no https access, if someone can paste the agenda that would be cool
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> How should we handle programs that need to install codecs? Do we want to just install kubuntu-restricted-extras, or do we want to patch every application so that it installs the required codecs with a dialog from the user?
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> The amarok version of this is quite buggy - it breaks if you've disabled multiverse for some reason, and seems to crash on some systems.
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> KDE debian/ dirs in Bzr- how do we want to handle this?
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> No one has seemed to have actioned the points Sho_ (konversation) raised in the last meeting - who wants to do this? [Above 4 by Hobbsee] 
<Hobbsee> and tonio wants to discuss media patches
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* Hobbsee waits for her connection to decide to live
<Riddell> coming live from Akademy 2007 here in (genuinely) sunny Glasgow
<Hobbsee> gasp.  sunny?
<Riddell> who's here?
* Riddell jonathan Riddell
<Tonio_> yop
* Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante
* Hobbsee green alien.
* Lure is Luka Renko
* mhb is Martin Bohm
* waylandbill is Billy Pollifrone
<_StefanS_> _StefanS_ is Stefan Skotte
* xerosis is Kieran Hogg
<dthacker> dthacker is Dave Thacker
* allee is Achim Bohnet
<Hobbsee> Any membership candidates?
<Hobbsee> doesnt appear to be any listed on the wiki
* Jucato is Juan Carlos Torres
<Riddell> council is me, Lure, Tonio_, Hobbsee, nixternal (if he's alive)
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: o you're doing the meeting now ? cool :)
<Riddell> Hobbsee: what's our first item?
* jussi01 is Jussi Scultink
<Hobbsee> Next meeting will probably be Wednesday 1 August, 2100 UTC or so.  Any objections?
<Lure> and kwwii if around?
<jsgotangco> ahh ah kubuntu council meeting nice
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: okay for me
* jsgotangco watches
<Hobbsee> hi spam
<Hobbsee> cool.  will email the list, etc, pending uni timetable
<Riddell> fine with me
<Hobbsee> onto the agenda of doom...
<Hobbsee> Okay, first point - if we've got kubuntu stuff that you want to see done for a particular tribe, please tell me, and i can milestone it, and poke you over it if you dont get it done.
<Hobbsee> ditto for anything that you want to get thru a freeze
* Hobbsee has no DC access, but will be the RM for tribe 3.
<Hobbsee> (assuming the plans dont change)
<Riddell> on a simliar note I'm an archive admin so you can try and poke me for new processing (if I havn't already touched the package)
<Riddell> and moving to main/universe
<Riddell> etc
<Hobbsee> that too
<Lure> Riddell: great!
<Hobbsee> *** How should we handle programs that need to install codecs? Do we want to just install kubuntu-restricted-extras, or do we want to patch every application so that it installs the required codecs with a dialog from the user?
<Hobbsee> We now have a kubuntu-restricted-extras package, which contains the main codecs needed on a kubuntu system
<Riddell> kubuntu-restricted-extras has java, lots of people don't want that for playing mp3s
<allee> about codecs: do we have developer time to inplement decicated codec loading?  A volunteer
<Tonio_> Riddell: then we should take care to get kio-umountwrapper to main :) the MIR is done, just reviewing is needed
<Hobbsee> Riddell: that's why they're as removes
<Hobbsee> Riddell: er, recommends
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, i'ts currently broken.
<Riddell> Tonio_: that's will pitti/kees/iwj only
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: OK, will poke.
<Tonio_> Riddell: oki
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: one thing I'd like to see fixed for the next tribe is adept
<mhb> allee: I'm afraid we don't
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: the repo manager doesn't work anymore
<Riddell> Hobbsee: what else needs this added?  just kaffeine?
<allee> mhb: so, makes not much sense to decide to patch every app ;)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: amarok, kaffeine, k3b, ...
<Tonio_> Riddell: kmplayer too
<Riddell> Hobbsee: do we have a .desktop file in app-install-data for kubuntu-restricted-extras?
<Hobbsee> also konqueror, for the java, etc.
<Riddell> Tonio_: won't be in main for long?
<Jucato> btw, I think there were some people having problems with the script in amarok to install the codecs after the release of feisty... not sure if anyone filed bugs for it
<allee> can't we switch to gstreamer?  AFAIU then we get codec loading almost for free?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i doubt it.  if we dont for ubuntu-restricted-extras either
<Lure> Tonio_: kmplayer is universe now?
<Hobbsee> Jucato: that's next
<Tonio_> Riddell: it'll stay in main, I guess forever, I'll explain why later if you want
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I thought there was one
<Jucato> Hobbsee: oops sorry..
<Hobbsee> Riddell: not sure, tbh.
<Tonio_> Riddell: we cannot use kaffeine in konq by default, which saddens me soooooooooooo much
<Hobbsee> Riddell: will have to look
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: why?
<Hobbsee> Jucato: no problem
<Tonio_> Hobbsee, Riddell: because of the plugin identification
<Riddell> Tonio_: how not?
<Tonio_> kaffeine ident itself as kaffeine media player plugin
<Tonio_> Riddell: kmplayer is able to ident as the standard windows plugin used for this kind of source
<mhb> allee: I agree with you, I had some talks with kaffeine upstream, they might consider a feature like that, but for KDE4 kaffeine
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: will come back to adept
<Riddell> Tonio_: interesting
<Tonio_> Riddell: and a lot of website are doing plugin detection to display the video
<Tonio_> Riddell: I tried to patch kaffeine to had this, but it didn't work, or only partially
<Tonio_> Riddell: means the identification worked, but not any website could detect the "windows media player plugin" despite I could see it
<Tonio_> Riddell: we need to discuss this with kaffeine upstream
<Tonio_> and then replace kmplayer :)
<Hobbsee> The main questoin here is, do we want to patch each app to use each particular required codec separately, or do we want to jus tgrab k-r-e once
<Riddell> Hobbsee: without developers willing to do this I don't see much we can do
<Hobbsee> Riddell: where this == ?
<Tonio_> so beeing stable is not enought for default inclusion, as it'll fail on a lot of websites
<Tonio_> who try to detect "windows media player plugin"
<mhb> grabbing k-r-e would be logical if there were only codecs and not stuff like java
<Riddell> mhb: is k-r-e install suitable for restricted-manager?
<waylandbill> I had amarok crash (hang) loading mp3 codecs this morning. Wasn't able to reproduce so I didn't file a bug.
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: remember the crappy "in the work" patch ? it was because of that problem :)
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: in the work?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: well, it's a metapackage.  it's not a GUI
<mhb> Riddell: restricted-manager is for drivers/firmware only
<Hobbsee> someone's coding a restricted-manager though.
<Tonio_> the patch I shouldn't have upload because it caused a lot of issues ? :) you fixed that upload
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: oh, that one.
<Tonio_> yep, the patch was an attempt for the plugin identification, which worked 60%, but I couldn't find why the websites couldn't detect it
<allee> Riddell: didn't the ubuntu guys use a patched gstreamer for codec reinstall?  So when we switch to gstreamer too ..?
<Riddell> allee: yes, absolutely
<mhb> err, is switching to gstreamer something that has been discussed?
<allee> Tonio_: how's gstreamer working with the kde apps?
<Tonio_> mhb: dozens :)
<Riddell> mhb: no go for kde 3, kde 4 sure once phonon has the plugin
<Tonio_> allee: kaffeine : not as good as xine, but works
<Riddell> but remember gstreamer doesn't do dvd menus and I don't know how good the w32codecs support is
<Tonio_> allee: amarok : no gst support :'(
<Tonio_> kmplayer : very nice support
<allee> okay so we have to wait for KDE4
<Riddell> allee: yes
<mhb> Riddell: I wouldn't vote for gstreamer if it meant losing features
<Tonio_> allee: yep, wait for phonon
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i guess i'm more interested in finding if there are any developers who are interested in doing this
<Riddell> Hobbsee: should we install all of k-r-e with amarok?
<allee> In this light the only workable solutions would be to down load k-r-e
<Hobbsee> Riddell: when the recommends are working, sure.
<Hobbsee> at the moment, it's an empty package :)
<mhb> Hobbsee: if we want to download k-r-e, I'd try to make the package as small as possible
* Hobbsee shoudl test out this apt about it
<mhb> Hobbsee: how big it is, with java and all?
<Hobbsee> mhb: that's why i only left the core codecs in
<Hobbsee> not sure
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ apt-cache show kubuntu-restricted-extras | grep Recommends
<Hobbsee> Recommends: flashplugin-nonfree, sun-java6-plugin, libxine1-ffmpeg, libdvdread3, libk3b2-mp3, liblame0, unrar
<mhb> Hobbsee: is the java still in there?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> i dont know, size-wise
<Riddell> we need to move on
<Hobbsee> Riddell: true, but the next issue depends on this
<Riddell> I don't think anyone has expertese/time to work on this, it involves playing with upstream in difficult ways
<mhb> I'm against installing java without the user requesting it
* Hobbsee nods
* dthacker agrees from the sidelines
<allee> jave -> suggests :)
<mhb> Hobbsee: can't we do a kubuntu-restricted-codecs metapackage or something?
<Hobbsee> mhb: that's what it is
<mhb> Hobbsee: java isn't a codec :o)
<Riddell> I'd say we get a .desktop file in app-install-data
<Riddell> that way it's easy for all to install
<Hobbsee> Riddell: sounds sane.  which requires me finding out how to write one.  but OK
<Tonio_> Riddell: ++
<Hobbsee> in that case, what do we want to do about the amarok install mp3 script?
<Hobbsee> it's in bash, and seems to fail for a fair few people
<mhb> Riddell:  that means = don't patch anything?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: just add and install somewhere and it should get picked up on upload
<Riddell> Hobbsee: keep it
<Riddell> mhb: not unless people are willing to do it
<Hobbsee> it doesnt account for if a user has disabled multiverse, and seems generally not-robust
<Lure> Hobbsee: multiverse/universe is enabled by default since feisty, right?
<Riddell> Lure: yes
<Hobbsee> Lure: it is, but some users will disable it
<Hobbsee> Lure: what disturbs me more is how it just seems to hang amarok, etc.
<Hobbsee> there's a tribe 3 bug on it, unless Riddell removed the tribe 3 milestone completely while i wasnt there
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: I'd say it differently
<Riddell> not I
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: how so?
<Tonio_> Riddell, Hobbsee: who will disable multiverse ?
<Riddell> Freedom Lovers!
<Hobbsee> users.  some.  for some unknown reason
<Hobbsee> and the freedom lovers
<Riddell> (and people who want support)
<Tonio_> Riddell: aka geeks
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+members is the relevant bug
<Tonio_> Riddell: and a geek doesn't use amarok's script to install it's codecs :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: nore has mp3 files on his computer
<Hobbsee> my point is that this should not randomly fail, and it should not up and die fi they have mutliverse disabled
<Tonio_> Riddell: and btw doesn't use app-install/adept
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: sure they do - it comes up automatically if they try to play a mp3 for some reason.  if they downloaded one
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: okay
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: you are a freedom lover
* Hobbsee shrugs
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: you hate proprietary formats, so you disable multiverse
<Hobbsee> i prefer my system to work, tyvm.
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: would you play an mp3 file then ?
<kwwii> for normal users, when you click the button it should "just work"
<Jucato> hm... is this about the mp3 script in amarok?
<Tonio_> probably not, and if it doesn't work, consider it is your fault
<allee> Hobbsee: wouldn't if ! apt-cache policy <pkgs> then; exit; fi # fix it?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: if i'd not realised that it was a mp3, or something, probably
<dthacker> Jucato: yes
<Lure> allee: exactly
<Hobbsee> Jucato: yes
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: then you are a geek, you changed settings, that's your problem :)
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: granted, but the scritp should not be that flimsy that it dies.
<Jucato> iirc, libxine-extracodecs just points to libxine1-ffmpeg in main since feisty right? why does it need multiverse to be enabled?
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: agree on that point
<Tonio_> Jucato: it doesn't
<Hobbsee> it seems it particularly dies when you say "no"
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: which is a problem
<Hobbsee> Jucato: oh, point
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: exactly
<Jucato> Tonio_:
<Jucato> er..
<Jucato> http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/libs/libxine-extracodecs
<Lure> Jucato: correct - we can have amarok mp3 by defaul
<Tonio_> Lure: no we can't
<Jucato> er it's in universe lol sorry
<Riddell> Hobbsee: why is this milestoned for tribe 3?  it can wait until feature freeze and we're in bug mode no?
* Jucato could have sworn it was in main :P
<Tonio_> Lure: I already discussed with -devel guys on that point
<Hobbsee> Riddell: sure it can, but it's to remind me, and preferably get it fixed sooner than that, so people test.
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I'm happy to fix it but not until after feature freeze
<Tonio_> Lure: it is in main for technical reasons, but we can't ship it by default becauseof licencing issues
<Tonio_> Lure: in fact that shouldn't be in main :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: OK, will assign it to you
<Hobbsee> Riddell: excellent, thankyou :)
<Riddell> groovy
<Riddell> next item?
<Hobbsee> *** No one has seemed to have actioned the points Sho_ (konversation) raised in the last meeting - who wants to do this?
<Hobbsee> at least, the k-d-s settings havent been changed
<Riddell> oh, ellen gave a non commital answer but seemed to say that listview at the side was better than tabs
<Hobbsee> right
<Riddell> as did johnflux another occational konversation developer
<Riddell> imbrandon did say he did the other changes
<Hobbsee> i seem to remember we agreed to the other points though, which still seem to be in there?
<Tonio_> Riddell: talking about that, I don't want to switch back to the default theme
<Riddell> but imbrandon seems to not be 100% reliable currently
<Tonio_> Riddell: we probably want a "human readeable theme" by default, which the default konversation isn't
<Hobbsee> Riddell: hwo does imbrandon fit into this, sorry?
* Jucato agrees with Tonio_
<Tonio_> Riddell: I wouldn't be inclined to change this
<Riddell> Hobbsee: he told me once he had made the required changes and was going to upload
<Riddell> ages ago this was
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Jucato> but the other suggestion was that we could probably help in making a better nicklist theme
<Hobbsee> it seems that he hasnt, so someone else needs to
<Tonio_> Jucato: if we can find any better, okay, but not the default konversation is shipped wuth
<Tonio_> wth
<Hobbsee> Jucato: true.  i suspect kwwii's far too busy for it
<Tonio_> rahhhhhhhh !! with
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: can you remind me what is the problem with the current one ?
<Jucato> Tonio_: yeah. I don't like it either and have continually "discussed" that topic with Sho_ :)
<Jucato> Tonio_: iirc it was the quality of that theme
<Tonio_> Jucato: it is simple, nice looking and icons are explicit to what they mean
<Tonio_> what is the problem with it ? seriously ?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: i dont have the direct link for sho_'s complaints about it
* Jucato checks logs
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: in my opinion, there is the upstream work and the distro work
* Hobbsee has lost all logs since then
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: this is true.  but upstream says "we want you to use this.  only".  as for why they havent removed the others then, i have no idea...
<Tonio_> it is not the first time guy from konversation are complaining about the fact we're changing the defualt settings, and that honnestly drives me nuts
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: they make things configurable, we configure them
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: we respect the gpl, that's it
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: feel free to take it up with Sho_.
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: if they don't want us to 'implement' it as we want, they can do proprietary software
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: no point doing it now, as Sho_ isnt here.  he's on #konversation now though
<Jucato> to be fair, upstream's concern is that problems in Konversation introduced in Kubuntu usually gets thrown back at them
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: especially as we're not changing it a lot
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: can you imaging how much more are we twinking konqueror for example ?
<Hobbsee> Jucato: true that.  which is why i'ts improtant to actually check k-d-s changes, which is still on my todo list
<imbrandon> honestly sho isnt on the kubuntu team and we follow the gpl
* imbrandon idles again
<Tonio_> Jucato: that's a problem with ALL free softwares
<Jucato> Tonio_: "* Kubuntu has selected a different default nicklist theme  from the set of themes we ship with Konversation. While  we continue to ship that theme for legacy reasons, we be-  lieve it is graphically poorly done and would prefer it  if Kubuntu switched back to our default. Alternatively,  we'd certainly look forward to artwork contributions  from Kubuntu's artwork community if it has other things  in mind. In particular, the issues
<Jucato> with the chosen theme  are that the colour palette doesn't fit into either KDE  or Kubuntu defaults, and that the serif typography looks  outdated. - form Sho_
<Tonio_> Jucato: so what should we do ? stopping implementations ?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: true that.  i'm still not exactly convinced that's a good idea.
<Tonio_> okay let's stop kubuntu then, no need of a distro
<Jucato> Tonio_: I don't necessarily agree with some of the suggestions (like the nicklist theme). but after all, they are just suggestions :)
<allee> Tonio_: I don't remember details.  But Sho_ may have a point.  We listen, then agree or not.
<imbrandon> Jucato, thats our problems not thiers, they want to be involved in kubuntu then invite them to take the time to contrib, instead of bitching from afar ( upstream )
* imbrandon stops
<Jucato> :)
<Tonio_> allee: I'm not against sho expecially, he may be right this time, but as imbrandon and I already had problems in the past....
<Hobbsee> Jucato: did you have that website link?
<Tonio_> I remember imbrandon getting mad on the channel because of this
<Jucato> Hobbsee: http://konversation.kde.org/kubuntu-issues.txt
<Hobbsee> Jucato: thanks
<Jucato> (it was in the minutes)
<Tonio_> the sysray one.......... argh !
<Jucato> heh :)
<Hobbsee> yay, be rid of the systray!
* Hobbsee thought that was decided last meeting
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: NO
<Tonio_> ;)
<Hobbsee> say it with me Riddell, "system tray icons are EVIL!!!"
<Riddell> oh yes
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: konversation is exactly the kind of application for which systray is usefull
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: you open it in the morning and then wait, as you do with kopete
<Lure> Tonio_: fully afree
<Hobbsee> Riddell: we could just outvote him... *g*
<Lure> agree even
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: all chat/email clients usually have systray enable by default, because you don't run them for 10 minutes only
<Tonio_> it is the kind of apps that runs everytime in the background
<imbrandon> honestly i'm of the opinion that if we just package vanalla upstream packages there is no reason for kubuntu then, anyhow i am at work and cant constructively contribute to the convo right now
<kwwii> Tonio_: geeks just start a thousand programs and leave them all running
* claydoh likes the systray
<allee> Tonio_: minimizing it would serve the same purpose
* _marseillais agree with Tonio_ for systray
<claydoh> icon
<Tonio_> allee: no, certainly not
<Tonio_> allee: cause it'll be merged with the all programs you are running
<Tonio_> allee: systray isolates background based apps, like kopete, knetworkmanager etc......
<Tonio_> allee: ALL chat based apps run in the systray
<Tonio_> allee: o reason to change that
<Tonio_> allee: and btw everyone is free to change the default settings, it is just a matter of default
<allee> Tonio_: to be honest: I agree with you
<Tonio_> we're not removing the functionnality right ?
<Jucato> why don't we justify having a systray icon based on its (intended) purpose instead of just saying that all other chat apps do it? for example, it serves as notification (which is the original intention of the system tray anyway)
* allee hopes systray icons stays
<Tonio_> I'll tell you something, I don't use it in the systray, but I'm really convicinced, that's the way the average people are waiting to use it
<Tonio_> and I can argue on every point in the list....
<kwwii> if we get rid of that one we should also get rid of the kontact, basket, and korganizer ones as well
* Jucato would love to have a unified kontact systray icon instead :)
<Lure> Tonio_: do you knwo about c++ patch for server setting - this is the only one I agree it may be too much from upstream
<Tonio_> but well let's not waste time on this, I propose that we discuss together about what to do on -devel channel, let's apply the wanted changes, and write a nice response to the konversation team
<Tonio_> Lure: which one ? to switch to irc.ubuntu.com by default ?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: mailing list is even better
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: sure
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: we do it in konversationrc and in the c++ patch
<allee> Tonio_: how about copying the text file to the wiki and adding your points.  I'll do so too.   Just collecting pro/cons.  NOOOO flaming.  Then we can decide in next mmeetingn
<Lure> Tonio_: yes, why patch?
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: what about people that use konversation on gnome ? :)
<Tonio_> that's why we are doing the fix twice
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: then they really want to join #ubuntu
<Lure> Tonio_: we should not care about them
<Hobbsee> or are just confused individuals
<Tonio_> Lure: I can remove that patch
<Lure> hi seele
<Tonio_> Lure: to be honnest I was asked to patch, of course my first action has been to do that in kds
<Hobbsee> in which case we want to send them to #white-padded-room *g*
<seele> hallo
<Tonio_> can't we discuss this later ? it'll take hours to debate everything ;)
<Riddell> let's move on, we can do the non-controvertial changes and debate the others at leisure
<Riddell> Hobbsee: seele is here for membership
<Hobbsee> way cool.  welcome seele!
<seele> hello
<Riddell> I'll do the changes to konversation if nobody else has by the time akademy is over
<Tonio_> Riddell: I can do it
<Riddell> seele: able to give yourself a couple line introduction?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: we should probably figure out Bzr stuff elsewhere, and provide a solution to the rest of the people.  as long as they actually read the mailing list, and obey it.
<Tonio_> Riddell: but I'd like that we debate once and for all on what to change/remove
<Riddell> Tonio_: ta
<Hobbsee> but seele's membership... :)
* Hobbsee hands the mic to seele 
<Tonio_> Riddell, Hobbsee: added to my todo
* seele takes the mic
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: great, OK
<seele> what do i say?
<Riddell> seele: what you've done in the ubuntu world
<seele> ah
<seele> well most of my work has been in the capacity of kde
<seele> i participated in UDS last fall and helped address some usability/interface stuff
<seele> i also started working on a GUI with mhb for GRUB (which hasnt been released for technical reasons)
<seele> also, this past spring i conducted user testing on the kubuntu version of ubiquity
<seele> and just recently provided the results to the community
<seele> i think working with kubuntu is a great way for me to work with other open source projects and maximize the time i can spend on kde :)
<Riddell> evand will pick that up, probably after freature freeze
<seele> plus kubuntu is just the bestest distro ever, so why not?
<seele> ok
<Riddell> :)
<imbrandon> :)
<Jucato> :)
<claydoh> :)
* allee add another :)
<Riddell> any questions for seele?
<Dimple> :)
<dthacker> yes, it is!
<Riddell> I know her well enough from conferences
* Hobbsee attempts to think of one that she can ask
<Lure> I would like to point out that ubiquity usability report is really great
<Hobbsee> seele: will you be in boston+1?
<Jucato> are non-council members allowed to ask? :)
* imbrandon cheerleads for seele ( nto that she needs it ) just cuz she is super cool at the confrences and blogs and seen tons of cool stuff from her
<Lure> I really hope some improvements will be done for gutsy
<Riddell> Jucato: of course
<seele> Hobbsee: i didnt know about boston+1 but probably since its in my time zone ;)
<Hobbsee> seele: boston+1 is in an unknown location, isnt it?  :P
* allee knows here from blogs
<seele> oh right
<seele> lol
<Riddell> Hobbsee: in or around MIT uni mid-november I think
<Hobbsee> Riddell: boston*+1*
<Hobbsee> as in, the one after boston.
<Jucato> seele: are you considering making a general usability review of Kubuntu? :)
<Riddell> oh, no idea
* Hobbsee wow.  people dont read today :P
<kwwii> actually, it is in the first week of november
<Hobbsee> Jucato: yes
<seele> Jucato: well.. it depends on what you means of "Kubuntu" because most of it is KDE
<Riddell> Jucato: that would need to be a KDE job (and since seele has been doing KDE 4 HIG...)
<seele> Jucato: i generally have a rule that if i dont think my work will be considered (let alone implemented) ill use my time on something else
<seele> yeah
<seele> all of KDE is a lot of work
<Jucato> seele: well, specifically the Kubuntu-specific ones/changes (like Konqueror? :)
<seele> thats what ive been trying to do for the past three years with them, hehe
<seele> Jucato: sure, if someone asks for it
<Jucato> :)
<Riddell> konqueror in KDE 4 is a lot like in kubuntu now
* Tonio_ nods !!!
<Riddell> so, let's vote on seele
<Tonio_> seele: +1 for me
<Riddell> +1
<Hobbsee> +1 for me, no questoin
<Jucato> (+3 from me, if I had voting powers)
<imbrandon> +25 from me ( but i dont count on this vote hehe )
<Lure> +1 from me based on great work until now
<Riddell> kwwii, nixternal, allee?
<kwwii> +1 from me
<jsgotangco> +1 for a super CC vote (if that counts)
* jsgotangco hides
<Riddell> well, that's enough, congratulations seele on Kubuntu (and also Ubuntu) membership
<seele> thanks
* allee +1  of course
<Tonio_> seele: congrats :)
<imbrandon> ( seele now i can legitly add your blog to the planet , lol )
<Jucato> congrats seele! :)
<Riddell> imbrandon: please do
<imbrandon> congrats :)
<seele> soo.. now what? do i need to so anything?
<kwwii> conrgratulation, now get to work!
<seele> kwwii: lol
<kwwii> :-)
<Riddell> no, someone will add you to the kubuntu-members team
<cynics> seele: congrats
<seele> ok
<Riddell> Hobbsee: next item?
<seele> cynics: thanks
<imbrandon> and your lp-id@kubuntu.org email should start working soon after
<asac> seele: congrats ... though i am not really involved in kubuntu ;)
<Hobbsee> seriously...someone's just requested a sync for apt and adept.  *shakes head*
<seele> asac: thanks
<Hobbsee> colin just killed them over it
* Hobbsee hands the mic to Tonio_ 
<Hobbsee> Tonio_:
<Riddell> Hobbsee: adept does need merged
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: the multimedia packages?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: true that.
<Tonio_> okay, what should we do with the /media vs media:/ patch ?
<seele> ok.. sorry to run, but i have to get on the road to my parents (US holiday today)
<seele> thanks everyone, talk to you soon!
<Hobbsee> have fun, seele!
<Tonio_> there are still LOTS of issues against those patch, most of them probably won't be fixed
<jsgotangco> happy independence day
<Tonio_> simple example : on my laptop, without any usb key and cd in :
<Tonio_> http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp/capture14.png
<Tonio_> on the left : /media -> ugly and confusing, missing things (hard drives)
<Tonio_> on the right : media:/ complete, showing what's needed, and "human readable"
<Tonio_> also, there are lots of issues arrount the desktop icons I could describe
<Tonio_> those patches have always create more issues than they resolve
<Tonio_> and btw, all  documentation you might find on the web about kde and media things don't work for kubuntu, witch is also a problem
<Tonio_> I wold propose to get rid of that patch, as most of those issues aren't fixable, confirmed by Sime
<imbrandon> or will be fixed with dolphin in 4
<imbrandon> not that that helps now
<Tonio_> about the screenshot, don't forget there is no cd of usb key on my laptop, which is a non sense
<Riddell> simon isn't around the akademy labs just now
<Riddell> I can talk to him about this when he gets back
<Riddell> but I'm ok with removing them if that makes things better
<Tonio_> Riddell: sure, but as I said, I already discussed wit him on that point and there is no way to fix /media
<Riddell> it's more a polite thing to discuss before removing his hard work :)
<Tonio_> the only fixable part is the desktop icons, but even on that point there are strange issues, as for example the icon sometimes disapears to switch back to folder one, which makes the device unmountable
<Tonio_> Riddell: of course
<Riddell> next item?
<Tonio_> Riddell: his work is a matter of 3 patches, my proposal is to remove one of them only :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: the other part of the simplicitation he has done is nice
<Riddell> Tonio_: I'm sure he'll be back soon, you, me and him can discuss in a bit
<Tonio_> oki
<Riddell> Hobbsee: what's next?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: discussions on packages in bzr, but i havent spoken to Tonio_ about this first, so am happy to leave it.
<Hobbsee> anyone got anything else to bring up?
<Riddell> yes
<Riddell> UDS, who wants to come?
<imbrandon> boston ?
<Riddell> yes
<Hobbsee> Riddell: boston?  not me, i'm afraid, although i suspect i'll be needing to anyway
<eagles0513875> i got something i would like to say once u guys r finished
<imbrandon> i had planned on it as the next release cycle i will have MUCH MUCH more time
<Tonio_> Riddell: I'd like to especially since talking about an LTS release, but there is no chance for me I guess :'(
<Hobbsee> Riddell: boston+1, i want to come.
<Riddell> we're biased towards those in the americas I believe
<imbrandon> if i can
<imbrandon> i had planned on it as the next release cycle i will have MUCH MUCH more time
<imbrandon> err yea
<Riddell> imbrandon: ok, I'll put you down
<eagles0513875> hey
<Hobbsee> Riddell: please put Tonio_ in my place, if you can.  he does need to be there.
<kwwii> have we invited seele?
<Riddell> kwwii: we should :)
<kwwii> I'll do that then
<Riddell> ta
* Hobbsee grumbles about not being able to meet seele on that basis.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: how many kubuntu places do you have?
<Hobbsee> oh wait, she counts as KDE :P
<Riddell> kwwii: no official invites at this stage as I understand, just asking if people are interested
<Riddell> Hobbsee: no idea how many places
<Hobbsee> right
<Riddell> three or four I guess
<Hobbsee> right
<eagles0513875> hey guys im an avid 64bit user of kubuntu and i love what u guys have done with the 64bit im an avid tester and would love to test any stuff u guys r working on besides the laptop which is 64bit i have a 64bit desktop that i will put this on when i get back to the usa
<kwwii> Riddell: right, that is what I meant: I will ask her if she is interested :-)
<eagles0513875> i want to say great work and i have to say this is the best 64bit operating system out there
<Riddell> eagles0513875: 64 bit testers are needed for testing tribe releases, hang around #ubuntu-iso and #kubuntu-testers
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~/files/planet-ubuntu/planet-ubuntu$ bzr commit -m "Added Seele back to Planet Ubuntu ( kubuntu member )"
<Riddell> ok
<imbrandon> modified config.ini
<imbrandon> Committed revision 256.
<Riddell> is anyone interested in packaging Qt Jambi?
<Riddell> java bindings
<imbrandon> against gcj or sun ?
<Tonio_> Riddell: I can have a look
<Riddell> Tonio_: don't overload yourself :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: I don't have "that" many things to do
<Riddell> imbrandon: not sure, gcj if it manages I guess
* Hobbsee performs the ancient runes on the kubuntu members list
<Tonio_> Riddell: well acutally I have a lot, but in a few weeks (2 or 3) I may have time for this :)
<Riddell> Tonio_: there's some build issues, ask tronical (Simon haussman) for more information
<imbrandon> i'm not great at java stuff but i can help along with someone else if they need/want it
<Riddell> ok, Tonio_ and imbrandon to do that
<Tonio_> Riddell: okay, will do that then
<Riddell> spec update: how are we getting on?
<Riddell> kde4-system-settings is in trunk, woo
* Hobbsee sucks w.r.t specs.
<Tonio_> imbrandon: feel free to start on your own, I may just not have time right now
<Riddell> Tonio_: how is dolphin-by-default?
<imbrandon> Tonio_, ok i'll get the ball rolling and let you know where i'm at later this week
<Tonio_> Riddell: okay so here is the point :
<Tonio_> we need to get 0.9 in, for which I have packages, but there is an issue with the naming change
<Tonio_> upstream wouldn't like me to rename the all app from d3lphin to dolphin
<Riddell> but d3lphin is a horrible name for users to see, the menu item should be dolphin
<eagles0513875> Riddell: does that mean i can still sign up or not
<Tonio_> second point : we need some bit of code in the kcm app chooser to be able to switch from konqueror to dolphin
<Tonio_> that can be done easilly by changing the inode/directory mimetype association
<Riddell> eagles0513875: to UDS, yes, we can put your name down
<eagles0513875> uds when and in boston right
<Tonio_> beeing able to select the default with the standard tool is a requirement I'd say
<eagles0513875> im saying the meetings member list
<Riddell> eagles0513875: yes, first week of november
<eagles0513875> is it a weekend
<Tonio_> Riddell: do you agree ?
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: no, it's a week.
<eagles0513875> thing is ill have classes
<Riddell> Tonio_: I agree
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: then you either miss them, or dont go
<Tonio_> third point : Ark
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: i'm missing this one, i expect, due to uni
<Tonio_> dolphin doesn't understand konqueror plugins, only servicemenus
<eagles0513875> same with me im in uni too
<imbrandon> ok confrence call, bbiab
<Tonio_> we have to write a nice one, but servicemenus have a problem : they are not dynamic, so we can't add options depending the installed compression tools installed on the machine, like unrar for example
<Tonio_> I must say I don't see a solution on that point
<Riddell> Tonio_: I don't care that much, you still get ark if you left click on it
<Tonio_> Riddell: you don't..... that's the problem
<Riddell> what do you get?
<Tonio_> Riddell: will only work with tar.gz by default
<nixternal> hola
<Tonio_> nothing with zip, rar etc....
<Riddell> well ark should be associated with rar files then
<Tonio_> Riddell: and what if you want to compress a file or folder ? :)
<nixternal> didn't even know we had a meeting
<Riddell> I'm talking about uncompressing
<_marseillais> Riddell, for qt jambi i can take a look this week end
<Riddell> for compressing you can open ark yourself
<nixternal> yay Jambi!
<_marseillais> oups sorry for delay
<Riddell> _marseillais: fight it out with imbrandon and Tonio_ :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: you talk about doubleclicking the file ?
<Tonio_> Riddell: that way yes it works
<Riddell> Tonio_: yes
<Riddell> so voila
<imbrandon> _marseillais, your more than welcome to take it, if you want/need a hand just poke me or Tonio_
<Tonio_> but that not very nice in my opinion
<Riddell> right click menus aren't the best UI for most things
<Tonio_> Riddell: I need to investigate how this works on kde4
<Tonio_> maybe there is just a super servicemenu written :)
<_marseillais> imbrandon, oki i'll try to do this this week end.
<Riddell> Tonio_: keyboard-accessibility, how's that?
<Riddell> abattoir: are you still planning to do onboard?
<Tonio_> no work on that point at the moment, but that's planed on my own
<Tonio_> Riddell: will tell you more next meeting
<Riddell> kwwii: kubuntu-artwork-gusty (a spec I just invented), how's it getting on
<Riddell> a new background would be nice
<Riddell> mhb: how's restricted-manager doing?
<kwwii> Riddell: yeah, I wanted to get a new bg and change the window deco colors
<kwwii> I think I messed up the colors in Feisty ;-(
<Riddell> I hadn't noticed
<dthacker> kwwii: I have no complaints. :)
<abattoir> R
<abattoir> Riddell: yes of course.
<Riddell> abattoir: soon?  otherwise I suspect mhb will start it first
<abattoir> Riddell: i've started work on it(trying to separate the frontend and backend) but mhb is more than welcome to work on it if he wants to :)
<Riddell> ok, mhb to coordinate with abattoir if he starts on onboard
<Riddell> any other agenda items?
<Riddell> any volunteets to make the minutes?
<Hobbsee> Jucato: does
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> wasan't there a "scribes" team at one point that used to do exactly this?
<Hobbsee> oh, the vista lover wants to!
<Hobbsee> nixternal: consider yourself voluntold
<nixternal> vista lover is enjoying the 4th of july today :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: and if you can voluntell Jucato to do it, you're welcome.
<Riddell> has everyone watched my talk from akademy?
* nixternal voluntells jucator :0
<Hobbsee> no.  link?
<nixternal> Riddell: link!?
<Tonio_> Riddell: nope, url plz :)
<Riddell> nixternal: it's a half hour ramble
<Riddell> http://home.kde.org/~akademy07/videos/
<nixternal> Riddell: it is cool to see everyone is having a good time
<Riddell> sabdfl has a talk there too
<nixternal> awesome!
* dthacker wants to see the Krita talk
<kwwii> I put a few pics on my flickr page
<Riddell> kwwii: please add to http://wiki.kde.org/aKademy+2007+Photos
<Hobbsee> Riddell: the time based releases one?
<nixternal> we (Ubuntu Chicago) will be putting up a Bzr talk by a Bzr dev pretty soon as well...good information in it
<Riddell> Hobbsee: that was one of the points
<nixternal> We found out recently that Chicago has its very own Canonical employee to bug now :)
<Riddell> nixternal: who's that?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ah, that was teh only one i saw blogged about
<nixternal> John (can't remember last name), aka jam, who does Bazaar development
<Riddell> I'm in london for the next week at the distro sprint
<Riddell> if you're in the area, drop by
<Hobbsee> Riddell: will any of that be documented anywhere?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I'll still be online
<Riddell> as will everyone else
<nixternal> hey, does everyone know that Amarok is broken btw?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i meant the results of it
<Hobbsee> nixternal: yes, known, in the process of being fixed
<Hobbsee> nixternal: it's curl buggery
<nixternal> rock on!
<Riddell> Hobbsee: there's no results, we just hack as normal
<nixternal> yup
<kwwii> I'll be there too, but don't drop by :p
<Hobbsee> Riddell: okay
<Hobbsee> Riddell: what dates are they from?
<Hobbsee> 9-13/7?
<Riddell> yes
<Hobbsee> cool, OK
* Hobbsee bounces
<Jucato> Hobbsee: sorry can't do the minutes. I'll pass it to nixternal for now (haven't really been paying attention...) sorry...
<Hobbsee> okay, nixternal is voluntold, with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<nixternal> damn
* Hobbsee grins
<nixternal> ;p
<Jucato> nixternal: happy independence day :)
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I've been using long sticks to herd people around akademy, they work well
<Hobbsee> Riddell: you didnt take mine, did you?
<nixternal> why thank you...last night went and seen Heart...today I am going to see the Marshall Tucker Band, enjoy some more ribs and beer
<Hobbsee> Riddell: there can only be one Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<Riddell> no, I used the sponsors banners rolled up
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ahh.  clever :)
<dthacker> would that be a pointy roll, then?
<Riddell> anyway, we're done, chat to #kubuntu-devel folks
<kwwii> thanks all
* dthacker good localtime all
<poningru> someone say beer?
<poningru> where?
<poningru> beer?
<Hobbsee> thanks everyone for coming
<poningru> no?
<Hobbsee> poningru: no beer!
<poningru> !!
<poningru> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<poningru> D:
<fritsch> Riddell: the link to the videos, you just posted. Not a single one is working correctly on feisty (kmplayer, vlc, mplayer). Sometimes image goes away ...
<fritsch> Riddell: tried your talk and the one from the fedora guys
<poningru> fritsch: wfm
<poningru> mplayer & vlc
<poningru> try downloading it and then playing it
<fritsch> poningru: ... already did, just did wget file and tried to play it with these 3 players
<fritsch> poningru: [theora @ 0xf04c30] Missing extradata! <- mplayer error message, could not open codec and bad packet in stream ...
<poningru> hmm give me the link to the exact one you are trying to play
<poningru> and we will compare md5sum
<fritsch> poningru: oki
<fritsch> poningru: http://home.kde.org/~akademy07/videos/1-22-Kubuntu-turning_KDE_into_an_operating_system.ogg <- first
<fritsch> poningru: http://home.kde.org/~akademy07/videos/1-20-Fedora_7_KDE_spin.ogg <- second
<fritsch> poningru: try seeking in the film, jumping forwards
<poningru> k
<poningru> eek huge file
<fritsch> 6a7d88ed8506c5266bf0819f23ea6d40  1-22-Kubuntu-turning_KDE_into_an_operating_system.ogg
<poningru> will take 5mins to get
<fritsch> fae0fb0e22c4d7228b07936855f6017b  1-20-Fedora_7_KDE_spin.ogg
<poningru> grr only getting around 1MB/s
<poningru> where is that hosted?
* allee gets 25 MB/s
* poningru shakes fist at allee 
<allee> :)
<poningru> fae0fb0e22c4d7228b07936855f6017b  1-20-Fedora_7_KDE_spin.ogg
<poningru> huh looks same
<Hobbsee> allee: i hate you.
<Hobbsee> allee: seriously.
<poningru> awww
<Hobbsee> allee: that's just...not allowed.
* poningru hugs allee 
<poningru> hey man I get that from my uni
* Hobbsee gets even *slower* speeds from her uni.
<Hobbsee> like, 30kb/s
<allee> Hobbsee: at the week end I've only 64 Kbit :(
<Hobbsee> heh
<allee> Hobbsee: then you can sorrow me
<Hobbsee> not really.
<Hobbsee> well, our home connection seems to be double that, or so
* allee sorrow Hobbsee until Friday
<poningru> fritsch: hmm yeha it seems to have some weirdness
<poningru> in the beginning there are few things here and there that throw errors
<poningru> but if you just move forward a few frames in mplayer it works fine
<fritsch> poningru: yes
<fritsch> poningru: just thouht, that official videos with ogg codec, should just work ;-)
<poningru> hehe yeah
<poningru> but most of those vids seem fine
<poningru> its just some of them are fracked up
<poningru> but yeah agreed
<poningru> should just work
<fritsch> poningru: thx for co checking
<poningru> np
<poningru> Hobbsee: welcome to the slow speed in countries that have monopoly telecoms
* poningru personally cant wait till wimax
<Hobbsee> poningru: yeah...this is saying 30 mins
* Hobbsee has gotten out her download accelerator
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team
<RichEd> hi LaserJock
<RichEd> getting the pre-edubuntu-meeting coffee ... kick off in 3 mins
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> coffee!
* ogra rushes in the kitchen
<BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 08:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 17:00: MOTU Team
<RichEd> LaserJock: thanks for the mail ... good comments and good food for thought :)
<LaserJock> RichEd: yeah, it might have been a bit wordy
<LaserJock> I do believe that's the longest email I've ever written
<RichEd> no problem ... appreciate all of it ...
<RichEd> Right ... Ogra : Technical ?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well
<ogra> tribe2 was released thursday
<ogra> was quite a lot of work since the new ltsp stuff wasnt integrated in the istaller yet
<BFTD> um, a meeting on July 4th?
<ogra> its good enough to install but totally unresponsive to the user wtm
<ogra> BFTD, the world is bigger than america ;)
<ogra> *atm
<BFTD> yeah but you'll lose a large chunk of users and developers
<ogra> i will need to put a day or two ino the installer ieces to fix that before tribe3 (july 19th)
<LaserJock> BFTD: sure, what an awesome way to celebrate the 4th than to celebrate software freedom!
<BFTD> hehe
<BFTD> ok you win
<RichEd> BFTD ... we'll make do ... you know the rest of us lesser nations
<BFTD> um, does anyone know when the next CC meeting is?
<LaserJock> BFTD: check fridge.ubuntu.com
<gnomefreak> hasnt been set yet afaik
<BFTD> thanks
<BFTD> oh
<BFTD> well how do I add myselfto the agenda to become a member?
* gnomefreak a day behind in email
<ogra> beyond that i made the sis7019 oss driver work with our kernel, so the e2300 (http://www.compactpc.com.tw/ebox-2300.htm) users ca have sound now too (not sure if i want that driver integrated though, but there is at least a wroking version now)
<RichEd> BFTD: the CC for Ubuntu or Edubuntu Members ?
<BFTD> ubuntu
<LaserJock> BFTD: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
<RichEd> This isan Edubuntu meeting at the moment. I suggest you check out the Ubuntu group on Lanchpad, and make an application there ?
<RichEd> Ah ... and some handy help from the LaserScientist above as well
<ogra> and i wrote a new X detection for ltsp since the old on was taking up 20 seconds (loading the whole debconf database takes a lot of time) we could go without a config with the new Xorg but that brings up new probs with keyboard and optional configuration changes ... so a new detection was needed, thats done now ...
<LaserJock> nifty
<ogra> (actually it feels like there will be not much left from the ltsp we had in feisty *g*)
<ogra> thats all about ltsp ...
<LaserJock> how's the new ldm/greeter?
<ogra> on the classmate front i cleaned up some hardoded scripts from the initramfs stuff i did
<ogra> *hardcoded
<ogra> LaserJock, i'm waiting for the go from scttie to merge the next iteration ...
<ogra> he changed the greeter to be magaed by stdin/stdout commands
<ogra> so we are able to have a full communication between user and ssh ....
<ogra> i.e. it will be possible now to update expired passwords
<ogra> smartcard integration should become easy
<ogra> and feedback that a user is already logged in :)
<LaserJock> that will be great
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> especially if you can run ldm standalone
<ogra> on any system
<LaserJock> any other goodies?
<ogra> in gutsy+1 i'd like to add a USB stick mode to the squashfs image ... then you can use the ltsp client image like a liveCD
<ogra> i.e. boot anything you like into ldm ..
<ogra> next step would be WLAN support
<LaserJock> cool
<ogra> ten you can punt the 150M image on a SD card or so and boot anything as thin client from that
<LaserJock> have you had a chance to talk to colin about the LiveCD? ;-)
<ogra> no matter if its a handhed, laptop or desktop
<ogra> *handheld
<LaserJock> that would be really cool
<ogra> LaserJock, we agreed that we would work on it during the sprint
<LaserJock> ok, awesome
<ogra> (starts sunday)
<ogra> i want that fixed urgently
<ogra> thats the best opportunity
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> where is the sprint?
<ogra> london
<ogra> all sprints are there now that we have the huge office :)
<LaserJock> ah, nifty
<ogra> thats all so far from tech atm
<ogra> busy week ...
<LaserJock> well, I talked with colin today about the addon CD changes
<ogra> your code looks fine
<RichEd> ogra: hope you travel safe and simple :)
<ogra> we didnt talk about it yet ;)
<ogra> RichEd, yeah, me too
<LaserJock> I created a mockup at http://laserjock.us/files/gai.png
<RichEd> you must tell me about the new hotel ... no more KK
<ogra> cunductors are on strike here atm .. but i picked a flight in the evening ....
<ogra> so it should work out :)
<LaserJock> I'm fairly happy with the categories for now, there are at least 3 apps in each submenu
<ogra> we need icons :/
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I can specify icons,  but since I didn't have any I just used the Education one
<ogra> http://www.grangehotels.com/grange_rochester_hotel/index.htm
<ogra> RichEd, ^^
<ogra> LaserJock, yeah
<RichEd> LaserJock: would you like me to ask kwii for some help with icons ... or else the new launchpad style is also neat ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: please do, my artistic skills are horrible
<ogra> well, they should fit into gartoon
<RichEd> LaserJock: icons also take a certain sort of bent head to get looking good ... not for us mere mortals I fear
<ogra> (our icon theme)
<RichEd> can you send me an example, and some short overview of requirements ?
<LaserJock> the other thing is I'm working on some metapackages and I'd like to put them in the main part of the menu
<ogra> oh, i forgot one thing, moquist contacted moodle in debian asking to drop the wwwconfig-common code :)
<LaserJock> I was thinking Legacy (edu apps from dapper/edgy), and KDE at least
<ogra> i'm curious about the answer :)
<ogra> (if we even get one)
<LaserJock> yeah, I've been working with moquist on packaging some stuff
<ogra> we had a short meeting today
<ogra> yeah, he told me ... the sambaldap stuff :)
<ogra> gerat to see that
<ogra> *great even
<ogra> anyway, i think thats it about tech
<LaserJock> has anybody had a chance to look at my MIR Candidates list?
<ogra> the one on your wiki ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<RichEd> LaserJock: sorry not yet ...
<LaserJock> k, I figure I should start cracking on those
<LaserJock> I have a couple I *know* I want to get in, so I'll start with those
<LaserJock> but it'd be nice to get some feedback from people
<ogra> oooh, that remonds me
<ogra> *reminds
<LaserJock> yeah?
* ogra makes a not to add gobby to the CD :)
<ogra> *note
<LaserJock> ohh
<ogra> all deps are in main now afaik
<ogra> and the MIR is approved since ages
<LaserJock> really?
<ogra> yes
<LaserJock> I think schools could really like gobby
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> documentation?
<RichEd> Nothing from my side on docs
<ogra> here neither
<ogra> apart from the statement that much in ltsp land changed and will need new docs
<LaserJock> well, I was going to wait for more changes
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> ogra: is the LTSP install process also different now than the current docs ?
<LaserJock> but yesterday we got a bug complaining that we have Feisty docs
<ogra> there will still be a lot
<LaserJock> and translators weren't liking it or something
<ogra> RichEd, its longer ... we generate an image from the client environment ...
<RichEd> I recall a comment on the edubuntu.org page saying that there are less steps than outlined ?
<LaserJock> so I think maybe today I'll upload what I've got
<LaserJock> just so there is a gutsy edubuntu-docs package
* RichEd goes to check quick
<ogra> that takes abot 8minutes on a 1Ghz machine ...
<ogra> 8mins where you see no disk activity since all the image compressing happens without disk access
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra> in the intaller that seems like its hanging
<RichEd> oops ... the GettingStarted page still says this: "For notes on how to configure settings for Edubuntu 6.06 LTS, please seeThin client configuration."
<RichEd> Does that section still apply to 7.04 ... or must they refer to: The latest release, Edubuntu 7.04, provides additional options for customising the thin client behaviour. They are documented in the Edubuntu Handbook, which is available in the Edubuntu System Help menu.
<RichEd> ??
<LaserJock> is there a general recommendation about using Edubuntu LTS?
<ogra> hmm
<LaserJock> should we encourage people to use 7.04?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> the ltsp in 6.06 is really not great
<ogra> feature wise ...
<ogra> edgy was the first one that had all features we support today
<LaserJock> that's what I was thinking
<LaserJock> it's a bit different than Ubuntu that way
<ogra> config wise 6.06 had a lot less options ...
<RichEd> and should the advice above be either / or ... i.e. for 7.04 dop they look at : please seeThin client configuration AND the handbook ... or just the handbook
<ogra> we should have a release based lts.conf option list
<ogra> in the docs ...
<LaserJock> mhm
<ogra> well i'd rather say handbook ...
* LaserJock summons willvdl and sbalneav
<ogra> but then a lot of the options in the handbook arent even supported in dapper
* RichEd watches LaserJock rubbing the bottle ... but does not see any genies
<ogra> and i'm not eager to tag all options *inside* the handbook for their releases
<ogra> sbalneav wasnt around the whole day i doubt he'll show up
* LaserJock kicks his magic lamp
<RichEd> he'll be busy with July 4th and kids and fanily methinks
<RichEd> *family
<LaserJock> bah, doesn't stop me :-)
<LaserJock> and he's Canadian ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thats all about docs ?
* RichEd nods 
<RichEd> And for artwork, I have not mailed Pete yet ... must do that tomorrow:(
<ogra> we had artwork before ... anything to add ?
<ogra> LaserJock, does he show up in -motu ?
<ogra> i see him blogging abotu code ...
<ogra> *about
<RichEd> "There are 48 direct members of the "Edubuntu Artwork" team, and 48 people are members in total, directly and indirectly through other team memberships."
<RichEd> I must also mail them to see who is still active and willing to help. Some old names there, like my wife.
* RichEd promises to mail pete and the LP group, and have some ideas about new blood for next week.,
<RichEd> No sign of HighVoltage or willvdl for web site ...
<ogra> neither pips1
<RichEd> Can we move onto community then ... the edubuntu-members stuff we spoke about last week ?
<RichEd> give me a sec to save a page I am editing
<LaserJock> ogra: I talk to Pete on jabber occasionally
<LaserJock> I've seen him also a couple times in #edubuntu lately
<LaserJock> is kwwii doing Edubuntu artwork at all?
<ogra_> grmbl
<RichEd> LaserJock: kwii is willing to help ... and if he hits overload, we'll resolve then
<ogra> not sure something i can find out next week at the sprint ;)
<LaserJock> well, I think it would help to have like a direction or spec
<RichEd> LaserJock: I have not seen cbx33 in #edubuntu for about 3 weeks
<LaserJock> i think there might some people who are interested in helping
<ajmitch> cbx33 has been busy, but around
<LaserJock> but just saying "create artwork for Edubuntu" is a bit vague and overwhelming
<RichEd> LaserJock: step 1 is for me to tidy the artwork group ... ping people to see who is alive and kicking
<ogra> LaserJock, i'll talk with him at the sprint
<RichEd> perhaps you can ask them to join the artwork group
<RichEd> hi ajmitch
<ogra> thats one of the reasons i'm there :)
<RichEd> Okay ... semi-related, and moving also onto community & membership:
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community
<ajmitch> hello
<RichEd> I've updated that page to have a short description of all the Edubuntu and Education and School groups in Launchpad
<RichEd> So LaserJock you can even point people there, tell them to follow the artwork link, and sign up, and await an invtitation to join the meeting next week
<RichEd> b.t.w. LaserJock are the possible helpers stateside or europe time ?
<ogra> hmm
<RichEd> and which meeting time generally works best for stateside ?
<RichEd> the 12:00 UTC or the now one ?
* ogra doesnt really like that https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu gets still promotion
<RichEd> ogra: that is the next matter on the table when LaserJock has commented on the artwork
<RichEd> :)
<ogra> its very confusing imho
<LaserJock> I have no idea about the artwork team, tbh
<ogra> we want people in https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members and make contributions to jpin it
<LaserJock> overall I think we have way to many teams
<LaserJock> *too
<ogra> yeh
<ogra> a
<RichEd> LaserJock: I'll sort out the team ... I was asking for comment on the possible helpers you mentioned
<RichEd> exactly ... let's jump right into the LP topic then:
<RichEd> * why is there edubuntu and edubuntu-members ?
<RichEd> Anyone have some historical perspecgive for me ?
<RichEd> *perspective
<ogra> edubuntu was the initial team to track edubuntu users
<ogra> before any of the other existed
<LaserJock> RichEd: I honestly don't know, Pete and Lisa are the only people I know of really, plus maybe Viper500
<ogra> then we got EC powers and got the edubuntu-members team
<ogra> that made edubuntu obsolete
<RichEd> LaserJock: Viper500 ? not sure who that is ... never come across that nick
<RichEd> ogra: some thinking aloud from my side then ... for edubuntu-members:
<RichEd> "Membership is open to anybody who has made a substantial contribution - of any form - to Edubuntu."
<LaserJock> RichEd: Ubuntu Artwork guy
<RichEd> LaserJock: okie
<ogra> RichEd, right
<ogra> and who went through the membership procedure ...
<RichEd> How can somone join "as part of the family" before they have done enough to get approved ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: sustained and significant contribution
<ogra> (add wikipage to agenda, show up at EC meeting etc)
<RichEd> I 'spose what I am asking is should we have a low entry level group : edubuntu ... for any intereste person ...
<RichEd> And make edubuntu-members the "approved cointributors"
<RichEd> Would that make any sense ?
<ogra> i'd rather see these people trying to join -members
<ogra> someone created edubuntu-enthsiasts or education-enthusiasts recently
<RichEd> Would that not scare off some potential people who *may* contribute later when comfortable / skilled ?
<ogra> (there was a mail on the ML)
<LaserJock> I think it's a real mistake to have a general team for anybody to join
<ogra> why should i contibute if i can jon the other team for free
<RichEd> ogra: neither of those showed up when I searched
<LaserJock> we shouldn't have a team for sake of having a team
<LaserJock> and we shouldn't create a team in the hopes that people will join
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/~education-enthusiasts
<RichEd> LaserJock: I am happy to merge the groups, just thinking aloud as I said
<ogra> 15 members
<ogra> RichEd, its not that easy, you cant merge them
<RichEd> ogra: strange ... I searched on Education in teams (but then LP searches were never the best)
<ogra> edubuntu people would have to go through the membership procedure to join edubuntu-members
<LaserJock> I count 18 edubuntu teams + the education-enthusiasts team
<LaserJock> but we have very few people actually doing anything, IMO
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> i've called up: ttps://launchpad.net/~education-enthusiasts and will ad it to the wiki page
<RichEd> ogra: by merge, I did not expect a button :) I may need to ask people to join the correct group, and then remove themselves from edubuntu
<RichEd> and then we can ask for edubuntu to be shot down
<ogra> LaserJock, well, it seems every time we have some enthusiastic people in edubuntu a new team is founded ... until the itrest dies again ...
<RichEd> oops ... freudian slip ... *shut down
<ogra> heh
<ogra> RichEd, we need a secretary :/
<RichEd> so the moral of the story is ... imho:
<RichEd> * trim the # of groups
<RichEd> * mail people to see who is still alive
<RichEd> * get a core set of people in core groups active again
<RichEd> and when we talk about art / docs / handbook etc in meetings, post an update to the LP group to get the news / info / initiatives out to the people who were not at the meeting
<RichEd> sound like a plan ?
<RichEd> comments, opinions, loose change ?
<ogra> sounds good ...
<RichEd> LaserJock: make sense to you ?
<ogra> looks like a plan (merely because of the added bulletpoints *g*)
* RichEd is the master of window dressing
<LaserJock> RichEd: seems good
<LaserJock> we might want to have team leads and team reports
<RichEd> okay ... I'll take responsibility for a first round of pinging and tidying ... and update the page or the meeting next week ...
<RichEd> and we can talk through it again then ... with less groups, and more live bodies hopefully
<RichEd> Any other items for the meeting tonight ?
<ogra> i'll be at the sprint then ... if you have anything i need direct access to any of my collaegues for, ask me that next week :)
<ogra> actually the meeting will even be during offic hours next week
<ogra> since its a EC meeting, we should at least ask :)
<RichEd> thanks ollie ... you can keep an eye on the meeting channel at the sprint or any questions that come up
<ogra> ANY EDUBUNTU MEBERSHIP CANDIDATES WHO MIGHT BE HERE, SPEAK UP NOW !
* RichEd goes a bit eye deaf
* ogra doesnt expect anyone :)
<ogra> just pro-forma
<ogra> so we can say we did our EC duty :)
<LaserJock> I guess
* RichEd waits for a respectable time ... ta dum ta dum ... anyone ?
<ogra> nuff waited :)
* RichEd readies the gong ...
<RichEd> ... going once ....
<RichEd> ... going twice ....
* RichEd looks around for last call
* LaserJock grabs RichEd's stick and bangs the gong
<RichEd> done ... sold to the man in the electronic kilt
<usul> :) I can help
<ogra> LaserJock, bah, you broke the suspense
<usul> sorry
<RichEd> usul: in what whay do you offer your kind assistance ?
<RichEd> *way
<RichEd> with the gonging, or artwork ?
<ogra> or the secretary position ? :)
<usul> dunno, :) no not secretary
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> usul ... well check out the following page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community
<usul> docbook , java ? is that any good?
<RichEd> and let us know what looks like it may interest you ... and then mail me, or grab one of us in the #edubuntu channel tomorrow
<RichEd> docbook would be a help I am sure
<usul> sure sounds good
<RichEd> thanks
* ogra goes to bed now ... working since 8:00 with no breaks (no idea why drove me today)
<RichEd> LaserJock: I had education enthusiasts in the page ... that is a recent effort by Jim in Colorado
* RichEd tuck ogra in ... and waves goodbye to the others
<RichEd> *tucks
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> night all ... usul see you in my mailbox or the channel
<usul> ok :) see you
<RichEd> usul: we would be grateful ... just all tired right now ... will chat again about volunteers at the meeting next weeek wed at 12L00 UTC
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-05
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
<man-di> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 05 2007, 13:12:26 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 6 hours 47 minutes
<evand> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
<tkamppeter> @schedules
<pochu> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00: Xubuntu Developers
<pyros_pyrotica> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
<tkamppeter> @schedule lisboa
<tkamppeter> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 05 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 01:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 18:00: Xubuntu Developers
<tkamppeter> @now london
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/London: July 05 2007, 20:07:00 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 52 minutes
<tkamppeter> @now  porto
<tkamppeter> @now lisbon
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Lisbon: July 05 2007, 20:12:59 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 47 minutes
<agoliveira> Hi all.
<dholbach> hiya
* agoliveira arrived earlier so mdz don't start poking me like "10 to the meeting", "5 to the meeting", etc ;)
<pitti> bonsoir
<agoliveira> pitti: Bonjour Pitti. 'a va?
<pitti> agoliveira: tres bien!
<agoliveira> pitti: With that I depleted my french know-how :)
<pitti> agoliveira: so did I :)
<pitti> agoliveira: well, apart from 'deux bierres, sil-vous plais', of course :)
<bdmurray> trois!
<pitti> bah, "s'il vous plat"
<pitti> bdmurray: oui, Monsieur!
* bdmurray wonders how to order beer next week ;)
<kylem> bdmurray, "real ale"
<pitti> bdmurray: I guess in London the hard part is choosing :)
<agoliveira> pitti: That's something one should know in at least a dozen languages :)
* pitti adds topic "1. The really quick introduction to kinds of British beer"
<bdmurray> "Portland is also known for its large number of microbreweries" so I am used to choosing
* agoliveira remembers last trip to Germany... hmmm...
<evand> hi everyone
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<agoliveira> evand: Yo!
<mdz_> good evening, all
<agoliveira> mdz_: Hi
<pitti> hey mdz
* Mithrandir pongs
<fabbione> pong
<bdmurray> pong
<dendrobates> here
<calc> ping
<calc> er pong, something
<kylem> yawn.
<agoliveira> mdz: Loved your picture at launchpad. I stumbled into it yesterday night and I had to tell my wife "He's my boss" :)
<mdz> kylem: it's the middle of the day where you are
<mdz> agoliveira: it is a classic in its own time
<kylem> mdz, i have no idea what timezone i'm in for any given day anymore
<pitti> agoliveira: ah, you mean the mugshot? that's cute, indeed
<dholbach> pong
<cjwatson> here
<agoliveira> pitti: Yeah, that one :)
<amitk> yo!
* dholbach hugs seb128
<seb128> hey dholbach
<dholbach> yo amitk
<agoliveira> Hi amitk
<bryce> heya all
<mdz> Keybuk: ping?
<tkamppeter> hi all
<amitk> hi all
<mdz> amitk: good evening
<mdz> doko,rtg,asac: ping
<asac> hi
<agoliveira> Hi bryce
<rtg> pong
<agoliveira> Hi Till
<doko> pong
<shawarma> o/
<shawarma> _o/
<mdz> you grew an arm
<Mithrandir> as long as he ends up with two, all is good?
<Keybuk> mdz: just counting
<mdz> I'm concerned about the intermediate stages
<ogra> whoops i'm late
<mdz> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070705
<Keybuk> mdz: all that I'm expecting accounted for
<iwj> Hi everyone.
<agoliveira> Hi iwj
<cjwatson> another light agenda today, though any omissions are entirely down to me this week
<mdz> first up, dholbach would like to introduce his package review proposal
<dholbach> I wrote the proposal up here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
<dholbach> the problem we're trying to solve is: we need more people doing reviews
<dholbach> more reviews means more fixes, more contributors and in the end more reviewers :-)
<mdz> I've looked over this previously, and I think it's a good idea
<Mithrandir> is this code reviews, package reviews or both?
<mdz> it's important that we take the time to review contributions from new folks, to give them the encouragement to become regular contributors
<mdz> Mithrandir: reviews of contributions in the form of packages
<keescook> I'm a fan of "Possible conflicts and problems will be discussed in the last minutes of the weekly Distro Team meeting."
<cjwatson> we need to grow the pool of Ubuntu developers quite significantly, and this is one good way to try to ensure quality in the result
<shawarma> mdz: If so, why are there is there a main/restricted section? What sort of packages would go directly into main?
<keescook> there have been some main-sponsor-tagged bugs I haven't been sure how to handle.
<iwj> This sounds good but it would be nice to have an idea of the standard we're judging against.  I'm certainly willing to help.
<cjwatson> shawarma: patches against existing packages too
<cjwatson> as well as totally new ones
<mdz> in a nutshell: someone creates a new or updated package, you review it and upload it
<shawarma> Ah, right.
<mdz> also called "sponsorship"
<iwj> `Net improvement to the distro' ?  `No howlers' ?  ...
<cjwatson> basically all the stuff that gets sent to ubuntu-{main,universe}-sponsors now but actually DOING it
<mdz> if you have a quick look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-main-sponsors
<mdz> there are 46 such contributions queued for main(!)
<dholbach> we will make use of bug reports in LP to keep track of reviews, so no REVU login is needed or anything
<cjwatson> (in a coordinated way, gets to be part of your normal work time, etc.)
<shawarma> Looking at it already.
<asac> i think universe sponsoring works pretty well atm ... main definitly needs more love
<mdz> it is well worth our while to act on these, as time spent reviewing a patch or two could help someone to become a new MOTU or core dev
<dholbach> asac: NEW packages too
<cjwatson> I think I would say that the standard ought to be that you'd be willing to put your own name to it
<mdz> Launchpad is growing some new features which will make this process even more efficient
<asac> dholbach: where can i find new packages? revu?
<iwj> So picking one at random, bug 75765 say, the job for a reviewer is to check the patch is good and then upload it, basically ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75765 in syslinux "syslinux should depend on mtools" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75765
<mdz> cjwatson: agreed
<mdz> iwj: correct
<pitti> dholbach: in which aspects is that new team (code-reviewers) different from the -{main,universe}-sponsors ones?
<mdz> the contributor might be a MOTU working on a package in main
<iwj> cjwatson: That's a reasonable criterion.
<dholbach> asac: for now we'll review bugs tagged needs-packaging which are 'fix committed'
<mdz> or potentially someone new to Ubuntu entirely
<cjwatson> iwj: also to get back to the reviewee with constructive criticism, and do back-and-forth
<dholbach> asac: so either the package is attached a branch is linked to, or a link to the dsc file is given, so you can easily dget -x it
<asac> dholbach: ah ... i see the link now
<Mithrandir> it would be very nice if the quality of NEW packages was raised a bit.. I rejected about 2 out of 3 new packages last time I did source NEW.
<iwj> cjwatson: Quite so.
<mdz> PPAs will begin to be used for this process more and more
<dholbach> Mithrandir: maybe it would help to classify the problems you're facing and add them to a wiki page, so we could work it into documentation
<mdz> so that by the time a package is reviewed, we already know that it builds, and can examine the binary packages trivially
<dholbach> Mithrandir: and announce 'common packaging mistakes' on the mailing list
<Mithrandir> dholbach: yeah, I started by mailing -motu about it, first.
<dholbach> (also cover them in the MOTU Q&A sessions)
<dholbach> Mithrandir: yeah, I saw that - thanks a lot
<Keybuk> dholbach: "using cdbs"
<mdz> and if the package looks good, it will be possible to copy it straight into Ubuntu on the server side
<iwj> If we join this team can our mail filtering distinguish `you got this mail only because it's related to a sponsors-subscribed bug' vs `you got this mail because you're a bug contact for the package' ?
<dholbach> Keybuk: ROCK ON! GO CDBS! :)
<cjwatson> iwj: (as an aside, it's asserted in bug 75765 that the version of syslinux now in gutsy can be built not to need mtools)
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: no "forgetting to ship a licence", "wrong debian/copyright", etc.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75765 in syslinux "syslinux should depend on mtools" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75765
<mdz> so that we have a very efficient pipeline for getting changes into the distro, even without direct upload privileges
<kylem> what, you don't like reading interdiff? :)
<iwj> cdbs--
<pitti> iwj: that's possible, LP sends the reason in a header now
<dholbach> iwj: joining the team will not cause mails being sent to you
<Keybuk> iwj: there should be an X-Launchpad-Reason for that now
<seb128> dholbach: having a wiki page with common mistake would probably work better than a mail
<iwj> pitti: Yes, I saw but I don't remember whether you get two reasons.
<cjwatson> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale I think
<Keybuk> indeed
<Keybuk> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Bug Contact (udev in ubuntu)
<dholbach> you will either pick packages you're interested in, or the admins of the team will manage the load of old reviews on team members by assigning bugs
<dholbach> seb128: both :)
<calc> btw it would be great to get that manual partition bug fixed by tribe-3 when it shows up its a showstopper
<cjwatson> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Subscriber @ubuntu-sru via Bug 109073
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109073 in gnome-games "Game Tali can't save scores" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109073
<cjwatson> I get that sort of thing
<iwj> cjwatson: Do you get several if there are several ?  I'm struggling to find an example right now ...
<cjwatson> iwj: haven't found an example or counterexample yet
<dholbach> I will set the contact adress of ubuntu-code-reviewers to noreply@ubuntu.com, I think
<pitti> dholbach: (repeating, it got lost) in which aspects is that new team (code-reviewers) different from the -{main,universe}-sponsors ones?
<pitti> TBH I don't see the reason for yet another team
<evand> calc: on it
<dholbach> pitti: all the members of the team agree to do reviews
<calc> evand: good job :)
<pitti> dholbach: but that's true for all three teams, no?
<dholbach> pitti: so seb128 and I will assign bugs that are older than two weeks to people of the team
<calc> while everyone is here does anyone know much about wpa for offline discussion?
<dholbach> pitti: no, you can be member of the other teams and just ignore bug mails
<pitti> dholbach: but in that case you shouldn't be a member
<asac> dholbach: you can do that for the new team too ... i find pittis point valid :)
<dholbach> we have lots of teams with lots of inactive members
<rtg> calc: I know some about wpa.
<pitti> the very point of *-sponsors is to collect people who review, upload, and discuss already
<pitti> dholbach: so let's rather clean up the existing ones
<dholbach> ubuntu-code-reviewers will take care of *sponsors* bugs and needs-packaging bugs
<asac> dholbach: why not sort them out and put more strict policy/procedures on the existing teams?
<dholbach> pitti: do you want to throw out members?
<pitti> dholbach: e. g. your new team needs to be split into main and universe, too
<calc> rtg: ok
<iwj> For bug 51468 I get only `Assignee' in the one -Rationale field despite being bug contact for the package too.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 51468 in dpkg "dpkg-source doesn't respect group sticky bit" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/51468
<dholbach> asac: because I don't want to review each member's work
<pitti> dholbach: no, asking everyone whether they are ok with actually doing stuff and asking them to leave the team if they don't
<mdz> one of the key ideas of dholbach's proposal is that we will dedicate time on a regular basis (e.g., weekly) to doing reviews
<Keybuk> iwj: I suspect it may pick the highest ranking reason?  worth asking malone people on that outside the meeting, since they can provide a definite answer
<asac> dholbach: this sounds a bit like we will get new team every two years ?
<cjwatson> iwj: looking at the code I believe it only ever uses the first reason
<iwj> Keybuk: Mmm.
<cjwatson> (lib/canonical/launchpad/mailnotification.py:NotificationRecipientSet.add()
<mdz> Canonical developers will do this as part of their ongoing responsibilities, so that contributors get a quick turnaround
<cjwatson> )
<pitti> dholbach: that new team will accumulate cruft over time, too
<dholbach> asac: no, this team is not subscribed to bugs by default, but membership points out that you are willing to get bugs assigned, etc
<iwj> cjwatson: That means that if we want to have an email ping about incoming review stuff we need the email contact for the team to be a subscribable-to list.
<dholbach> pitti: cruft = people?
<Mithrandir> dholbach: a way would be to just make everybody's membership expire in a month's time, and anybody who's interested can just say they're interested and they'll keep.
<mdz> this new team represents a different workflow
<pitti> dholbach: I mean people who stay team members but get inactive
<iwj> dholbach: Quote!
* pitti apologizes for bad wording
<dholbach> Mithrandir: we can have a short membership, yes
<dholbach> pitti: no problem, I just didn' understand
<Mithrandir> dholbach: and then make it expire in 12 months or so, like normal teams.
<pitti> auto-expiration sounds like a good idea to me to avoid this problem
<cjwatson> cruft != people, Soylent Green = people
<ogra> lol
<dholbach> as mdz already said: we have a different workflow in this team - nobody will get subscribed to bugs by default, so it will have a really small impact on your inbox, members will pick bugs they're interested in and get one assigned every now and then, if we can't keep up
<asac> and what will the old teams do on top? why can't we apply this workflow to them?
<mdz> I'm indifferent about the issue of how the teams in Launchpad are organized
<mdz> let's focus on the proposal itself
<dholbach> are there other questions about the proposal (apart from ... yes
<mdz> does anyone have feedback about the idea of *your* regular participation in these reviews?
<asac> yes ;)
<pitti> sounds good to me in general
<pitti> question is whether someone actually manages it and assigns stuff, or we just randomly pick
<cjwatson> the trick will be remembering to do it on a regular basis
<asac> for me too
<mdz> pitti: my suggestion was that dholbach would manage the queue
<cjwatson> hence tacking a reviewers meeting onto the end of the distro team meeting
<seb128> pitti: we random pick and if something is not picked it gets assigned
<cjwatson> (just as a convenient slot because I didn't want to suggest creating YA meeting)
<fabbione> sounds sane to me
<mdz> to make sure that things don't wait too long, and get handed to someone quickly
<pitti> with assignments, planning and load balancing would be easier, but someone's got to do it, of course, which costs some time
<mdz> I think it's simpler to have a central person take care of that, and reviewers will only need to worry about emptying their queue each week
<mdz> which should be a small number of patches
<cjwatson> one other point will be to remind reviewees not to just go to the last person who sponsored their patch
<mdz> that way there's no polling, no forgetting to check for new reviews
<mdz> you can just handle them like bugs as they come in
<keescook> Is there a way to have the "Bugs related to ..." list only show the bugs still open in Ubuntu?  (e.g. 58256 is not interesting)
<pitti> right
<pitti> and we could even pass around the management hat after some time
<cjwatson> otherwise (a) you start avoiding reviews out of the fear of being stuck with the same person again and again (b) reviewees get the benefit of multiple people's opinions over time
<Mithrandir> keescook: I believe there are bugs filed about that problem.
<dholbach> cjwatson: good idea
<seb128> keescook: I think that's a launchpad bug
<keescook> Mithrandir: 'kay.
<fabbione> cjwatson: ++
<kylem> cjwatson++
<mdz> are there any objections to the idea of dholbach assigning the reviews to folks as they come in?
<cjwatson> keescook: you can at least just skip past the ones on Debian at the top
<mdz> he can take care of ensuring that nobody is overloaded, and that requests are routed to someone who knows about the package involved, if appropriate
<keescook> cjwatson: yeah, true.  had just noticed that.  :)
<pitti> keescook: write a greasemonkey script for us :)
* keescook slaps his forehead
<keescook> pitti: duh, of course.
<pitti> (that would be heavily useful for archive bugs, too)
<dholbach> it'd be nice if you joined the team, if you're willing to help out there, so there's a list of people to assign bugs to :)
<cjwatson> people should also feel free to turn down reviews if they aren't last-resort-assignee and they don't know much about the package
<pitti> dholbach: I'm still not convinced about getting one new team for it; we either use the existing ones, or split yours into two (main/universe) and declare the other two as dead
<mdz> dholbach: we should ask for volunteers from the community, but distro team packagers are expected to do this as part of their regular work
<cjwatson> there are plenty of classes of bugs I know I will be of no use reviewing :)
<cjwatson> but everybody should have some they can handle
<mdz> the volume is not large, when considered against the size of this team
<mdz> even the current backlog is only a few reviews per developer
<pitti> dholbach: thanks a lot for bringing this up; that's quite obviously a forgotten area
<dholbach> mdz: ok, I'll announce the plan and ask for volunteers
<dholbach> I'm happy to drop the team if that's what everybody thinks is a good idea...
<mdz> dholbach: please add everyone from the distro team who is also a core developer to the team
<mdz> dholbach: (whichever team you decide to use)
<dholbach> I will divide the NEW packages upon the two teams too
<dholbach> mdz: will do
<mdz> any other questions about reviews?
<seb128> dholbach: what do you mean, divide NEW?
<dholbach> seb128: needs-packaging Fix Committed bugs
<seb128> dholbach: new packages go to universe
<dholbach> seb128: yes, but I don't want to put the whole load on people in the universe team
<dholbach> pitti: I'd prefer to have ubuntu-main-sponsors@lists.ubuntu.com before I add random people to it
<seb128> dholbach: right, just subscribe everybody to those ;)
<pitti> dholbach: hm, do we need that list?
<pitti> dholbach: we have u-devel@ and bug mail already?
<dholbach> pitti: the advantage of the team is: you just get mails for bug reports that are assigned to you
<dholbach> if you're in ubuntu-main-sponsors you get all mails about main sponsoring bugs
<dholbach> and that's something I'd like to avoid
<pitti> dholbach: not if you set an appropriate team contact address
<pitti> that's a problem with either team
<mdz> let's take the discussion about team structure and mailing lists to email, if we could
<pitti> right
<dholbach> ok
<mdz> I agree that it's an important question to resolve, but we can do it as well offline I think
<dholbach> yes, that's better use of our time :)
<mdz> does anyone have questions about the sprint next week?
<mdz> some of you will be attending for the first time
<amitk> mdz: do we get to sleep?
<shawarma> no
<bryce> anything in particular we should be prepared for?
<agoliveira> Will we be fed like at Google?... not :)
<mdz> amitk: every night
<Keybuk> amitk: not if you don't want to
<ogra> did nobody forget their fridge magnet ?
<shawarma> ogra: I had no idea!
<pitti> ogra: OMG
<mdz> bryce: all the things you normally don't need to worry about when working at home :-)
<ogra> shawarma, there was a mail from jane
<Keybuk> oh yes, everyone is supposed to bring a fridge magnet from their country/city of origin to put on the millbank fridge
<kwwii> that makes two things i have to get before I leave
<mdz> you need to dress yourself every day, shower occasionally, etc.
<ogra> or was it from claire ?
<shawarma> ogra: Before i joined, it seems.
<pitti> ogra: thanks for the reminder
<bryce> mdz, :-)
<ogra> :)
<agoliveira> Keybuk: Didn't know that!
<mdz> bring an umbrella in case it rains
<mdz> and a jacket; it's summer, but it sometimes gets cold and windy along the river, especially at night
<agoliveira> I'll have to go shop for it because my wife hates them :)
<fabbione> mdz: people from real countries can breath in the water :P
<ogra> and fireproof underwear, you never know
<Mithrandir> mdz: is there a big enough fridge with enough soft drinks there?
<mdz> Mithrandir: there is what claire described as a "big fuck-off American style fridge"
<bryce> lol
<ogra> heh
<Mithrandir> mdz: ah, good.
<amitk> mdz: so how does the sprint work? Do we already have an agenda?
<mdz> with coca-cola and diet coke in it
<mdz> a coffee machine, a water cooler, etc.
<kwwii> amitk: we all sit around and watch you work :-)
* agoliveira sighs remembering Google 
<Mithrandir> kwwii: with whips.
<calc> oh europeans normally have tiny fridges?
<ogra> calc, yep
<cjwatson> amitk: https://wiki.canonical.com/GutsySprintLondon has agenda items
<Keybuk> calc: but we know how to use them!
<mdz> amitk: yes, there's a brief agenda to remind us of points we want to cover
<ogra> calc, we like to waste less energy :)
<calc> Keybuk: by going to the store every day?
<cjwatson> it will be much less formal than UDS though
<mdz> we get to pretend that we all work in the same office for a week
<calc> US is spread out enough that going to the store more than once a week would waste a large number of hours, so we have big(?) fridges
<calc> 20-25 cu ft
<agoliveira> mdz: "pretend that we all work"? :)
<Keybuk> one advantage to Millbank is that we have break-out rooms for smaller discussions
<mdz> we will have a few special guests from Canonical partners dropping by to talk with us as well
<ogra> calc, if a fridge is big enough an 8 yr old child can stand in there we call it a huge fridge in europe ;)
<calc> ogra: lol
<calc> ogra: some fridges in the US are large enough for an adult to stand in
<mdz> you will also have the opportunity to meet some of your colleagues in other parts of Canonical
<ogra> up to 4yr is mid sized ;)
<ogra> calc, i know ;)
<mdz> even if you've been around for a while, there are a lot of new faces in the london office
<cjwatson> I would recommend bringing an Ethernet cable if you can
<pitti> oh, good point
<cjwatson> the office requires WPA and some wireless cards have trouble
<pitti> bcm43xx -> no wpa love
<ogra> are there spare keyboards, mice an ddislays in the office ?
<fabbione> cjwatson: are there going to be enough ports for everybody?
<mdz> especially if you insist on using a powerpc laptop
<calc> cjwatson: and wpa seems to have issues in gutsy too, whee :)
<pitti> cjwatson: we cannot get an exception for that week? (open wifi)
* ogra wonders if he could bring more than one thin client
<mdz> ogra: no
<ogra> :/
<ogra> ok
<Mithrandir> calc: maybe somebody will then fix it. :-)
<mdz> most everyone uses laptops
<calc> Mithrandir: i hope so, i'm stuck on fiesty still
<ogra> yeah, makes sense
<keescook> bring a swtich too.  :)
<mdz> ogra: you can have as many virtual machines as you like though
<ogra> heh
<keescook> *switch
<ogra> mdz, you know i like real HW ;)
<Keybuk> general warning
<Keybuk> DO NOT plug your laptop into a blue cable
<Keybuk> blue cables are BAD cables
<agoliveira> ?
<cjwatson> mdz: when the laptop refresh benefit kicks in, I shall not be ;-)
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh, RS422?
<mdz> blue cables are PoE for the phone system
<fabbione> Power over Ethernet?
<Mithrandir> oh, fun.
<ogra> fun
<fabbione> ehhe
<agoliveira> Cool
<mdz> I'm excited for everyone to get together at the new office, it will be great fun
<bryce> :-)
<dholbach> yeah :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> we'Re a huge crowd
<cjwatson> if you are scared of heights, don't go near the windows
* ogra makes a note
* agoliveira loves heights!
<Mithrandir> can we go out on the roof?
<ogra> *shudder*
<mdz> the forecast for monday and tuesday calls for rain
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: I don't believe so
<pitti> mdz: is there a principal ban of open wifis?
<mdz> pitti: you'll have to check with elmo about that
<pitti> mdz: i. e. it would be bad to just hook an AP to an ethernet and use that?
<mdz> but the office is well covered already
<calc> ogra: http://www.subzero.com/products/detail.aspx?cid=2&productid=11 <- the fridge i like ;)
<pitti> ok
<bryce> Linux developers should never go near windows
<Keybuk> pitti: we're on the 27th floor ... most of London would have line-of-sight with the AP
<pitti> well, I'll better bring a cable then
<fabbione> hmmmm
<ogra> calc, a for murders etc :)
<fabbione> i will need to find one... mine are all in use
<ogra> *ah even
<mdz> pitti: all the better to take advantage of the ridiculous internet bandwidth
<agoliveira> bryce: ... or trough it ;)
<cjwatson> pitti: I seem to remember asking once and being told that we couldn't have open wifi
<fabbione> suggested lenght of the cable?
<mdz> 2m
<fabbione> thanks
<Keybuk> power and ethernet access has been put in place by IS, and is quite generous
* fabbione will need to de-rack one
<Keybuk> especially by hotel standards we've been previously used to
<mdz> you should find it a very comfortable place to sprint
<Keybuk> also, while here, set your local archive while here to the ordinary archive.ubuntu.com -- since any other traffic has to go *past* the real archive to get to the Internet anyway
* pitti looks forward to see you all again, and the new office
<dholbach> :-)
* seb128 too
<agoliveira> Any tips for first-timers in London?
<fabbione> agoliveira: don't get lost?
<kylem> will we have ethernet? i'm going to bring my macbook instead of my old ibm, and don't want to use buggy madwifi shit.
<mdz> agoliveira: just say "sorry" a lot, and you'll be fine
<cjwatson> kylem: yes
<pitti> agoliveira: watch out before crossing a street, cars come from the *other* side
<pitti> (seriously, that hit me more than once)
<ogra> calc, i can still easily look over my fridge, but the usual german would consider that thing huge already :)
<kylem> cjwatson, winning.
<keescook> kylem: bring a switch or two.  :)
<agoliveira> pitti: I've being on Australia :)
<cjwatson> bring a cable, though there are spares
<dholbach> record shops! :-D
<kylem> dholbach, ohh winning
<Keybuk> pitti: I hope not *hit*
<mdz> don't forget your power adapter if you need one
<evand> Is anyone planning on hitting LRL once they get settled in at the hotel?
<kylem> evand, i'm heading up there on saturday morning.
<pitti> Keybuk: no, but close enough for my taste :)
<ogra> LRL ?
<kylem> evand, when do you arrive?
<Keybuk> LRL is about 2h travel from the hotel ;)
<agoliveira> mdz: I bought one of those you showed me. I should be fine
<evand> kylem: 10a
<mdz> a number of Canonical folks will be at LUGRadio Live
<kylem> evand, on saturday?
<evand> yes
<ogra> ah lug radio
<calc> ogra: i'm seriously considering buying a 20 cu ft freezer to go along with the 20-25 cu ft fridge/freezer i already have, when i move next month, heh
<kylem> evand, at heathrow?
<Keybuk> evand: oh, then by all means, LRL is wonderful fun!
<evand> gatwick
<kylem> evand, ah, darn, do you have a GSM phone?
<evand> negative, cdma
<kylem> darn.
<Keybuk> people heading to LRL should take my mobile number, and I'll provide necessary directions, details and help
<mdz> another pro tip: check that your phone will be able to roam in the UK before leaving
<kylem> i arrive at LHR at 7:30, hoping to get a 1pm train from Euston to WVH
<Keybuk> (cdma does *not* work in the UK)
<evand> Hrmm, perhaps I can find a working SIP client for windows mobile 6.
<mdz> if not, make sure you don't get lost on the way to the hotel
<mjg59> If you have an unlocked GSM phone, pay as you go SIMs are cheap and easily available
* agoliveira have a A1200. No problem with that ;)
<mdz> mjg59: and anonymous!
<kylem> mjg59, is there a good place to buy an unlocked phone?
<kylem> mjg59, i could do with an upgrade. heh
<Mithrandir> mdz: everything related to building security and our access and such has been set up already, and we just show up?
<calc> kylem: you can unlock your phone fairly easily online
<mdz> random phone kiosks and (oddly enough) dry cleaners will unlock your phone for a few pounds
<mjg59> kylem: Erm. I've usually used ebay.
<kylem> calc, yeah, but newer phones in britain.
<mdz> Mithrandir: assuming claire knows you're coming, you should be set
<agoliveira> mjg59: GOod call
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: front desk will provide you with visitor passes
<ogra> kylem, my discunter at the corner seels unlocked no names for 111 atm
<amitk> The hotel walking distance from the office, right?
<iwj> So err we seem to be running into the sands here.  I hate to ask and interrupt all the banter but is still the meeting ?
<Mithrandir> mdz: what time do we start?  9am at millbank or when?
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok
<mdz> amitk: yes
<fabbione> we will need to renew the visitor pass every day?
<mdz> iwj: this is the response to my asking whether anyone had questions about the sprint
<fabbione> or is it going to be a weekly one?
<shawarma> fabbione: You don't bring it home.
<iwj> mdz: Yes.
<shawarma> fabbione: You get one each morning.
<fabbione> shawarma: ok thanks
<iwj> fabbione: Be sure to leave your bombs at the big gothic building just up the street with all the `Serious Place Under The We Will Lock You Up Act' notices.
<mdz> feel free to call my mobile if you have any trouble getting where you need to be
<iwj> Mithrandir: I assume so.
<mdz> is there any other business for the meeting?
<fabbione> iwj: ROFL
<Mithrandir> and, how's lunch arranged there?
<mdz> Mithrandir: lunch will be catered in
<pitti> just reminding everyone to look after their tribe-3 bugs now and then; we have scaringly many
<Mithrandir> sounds great.
<mdz> please be at millbank by 0930 monday morning
<iwj> 0930!  A lie-in :-).
* agoliveira remembers that joke about british chefs, french waiters and italian drivers...
<Mithrandir> when do we end for the day?
<kylem> mdz, do we have any organized dinners on sunday or friday?
<fabbione> mdz: 9:30 ?
<fabbione> oh oh
<iwj> fabbione: Don't ask, he might change his mind.
<mdz> kylem: I'm not sure, since I'm not traveling. :-)  should be in the email from claire
<fabbione> iwj: i am good with 9.. i can't sleep past 5/6 anyway
<Mithrandir> fabbione: it's a walk from the hotel, so makes sense.
<pitti> fabbione: that's lunchtime for you already, right? :)
<kylem> ok.
<fabbione> pitti: exactly :)
<fabbione> Mithrandir: fair enough...
<fabbione> it's all good
<iwj> fabbione: Imagine the sprint is in Boston.
<fabbione> iwj: 5/6 UTC.. my body rejects TZs
<mdz> Mithrandir: depends on how much there is to do that day; going directly to dinner is common
<ogra> kylem, if we dont we'll organize one ourselves ;)
<Mithrandir> ok.
* agoliveira sugests go see the transformers movie.... and duck!
<keescook> agoliveira: doesn't open until the 27th
<kylem> ogra, need to know when to be back in london for... if it's just monday morning, it's easier. :)
<fabbione> agoliveira: it's not such a bad idea
<Keybuk> Die Hard and Harry Potter are the openings here
<fabbione> keescook: you kidding? it's already on the screens here
<ogra> ah
<agoliveira> Here too I guess
<keescook> fabbione: that's correct.  I was bummed
<mdz> kylem: even if there is something organized sunday night, it's not mandatory
<kylem> mdz, ok, that's more or less what i wanted to know.
<kylem> cheers.
<mdz> perhaps we can organize a trip to the cinema one evening
<iwj> I'll be getting into KX at 23something so I'll probably miss that :-).
<bryce> that'd be cool
<ogra> yeah
<seb128> dholbach: new harry potter ;)
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<iwj> *shudder8
<agoliveira> No way! :)
<mdz> in the spirit of individual initiative, it's more likely to happen if someone takes the lead and organizes it
<doko> seb128: ask amy to buy one in chinese ;-)
<mdz> we're almost at time.  is there anything else to cover for the meeting before we wrap up?
<ogra> doko++
<bryce> mdz, nope
<seb128> doko: I think I like english better than chinese ;)
<ogra> we can all talk next week in person :)
<mdz> ok
<mdz> travel safely, everyone
<fabbione> cya sunday
<mdz> and good night
<fabbione> night
<dholbach> see you on sunday
<pitti> cu all!
<amitk> good night
<asac> night
<ogra> ciao
<iwj> TTFN all.
<kwwii> see you soon
<doko> see you Sunday
<agoliveira> I intend to, if the airport situation here alows me.
<seb128> see you
<agoliveira> Bye all
<calc> see you all sunday :)
<keescook> cya
<cjwatson> good luck with travel, everyone
<cjwatson> be nice to the nice men with guns at the airports
<pitti> cjwatson: shudder
<fabbione> cjwatson: do we need to kiss them with lots of love? :P
<pitti> bad storys here in the newspapers
<calc> cjwatson: eh i thought no one in UK had guns?
<bryce> brian and I are flying Northwest Airlines, which apparently has been delivering its passengers to their destinations only about 85% the time, so I'm 85% sure I'll see ya all Monday!
<calc> bryce: lol
<cjwatson> calc: not ordinary civilians
<calc> cjwatson: ah
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-07
<BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 10 Jul 08:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 17:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 10:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 12:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 10 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 02:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-08
<Biagi> http://biagi.miniville.fr/ind
<poningru> !chm
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about chm - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-06-30
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
<BonezAU> Hi, I am banned from #ubuntu and I don't know why. Can anyone assist in removing the ban? thank you
<techno_freak> BonezAU, you can also ask a freenode staff about it
<persia> BonezAU: Or ask in #ubuntu-irc, where someone may explain to you why and what needs be done.
<persia> techno_freak: No need to call staff for just a ban: better handled by Ubuntu folk, where possible.
<techno_freak> persia, hmm ok :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-01
<Ziroday> @schedule Singapore
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 01 Jul 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<ApOgEE-> hi all
<ApOgEE-> hi GunbladeIV
<GunbladeIV> hi ApOgEE-
<ApOgEE-> turn up so early?
<GunbladeIV> yeah.. just incase if i forgot to attend the meeting
<ApOgEE-> hi e-jat
<e-jat> hi ..
<e-jat> guys .. im afraid i cant join meeting this eve .. got i got another meeting .. :(
<GunbladeIV> wow.. i thought e-jat is idle
<GunbladeIV> erm..
<GunbladeIV> ohw no.. then please leave some testi on both of our wiki
<e-jat> wait . i try to leave a testi on your wiki ..
<GunbladeIV> both ApOgEE-'s and mine
<GunbladeIV> cuz nicholas forgot about ApOgEE-'s wiki the other day
<ApOgEE-> Owh man, Nicholas won't be here too... he's going to S'pore if i'm not mistaken
<ApOgEE-> e-jat, thanks
<GunbladeIV> ApOgEE-, yup
<GunbladeIV> none of -my members will be here if im not mistaken
<GunbladeIV> dunno if zarul or kerbau can make it then
<ApOgEE-> owh.. so, we will be on our own then
<GunbladeIV> yup..
<GunbladeIV> :(
<GunbladeIV> pretty sad huh
<ApOgEE-> it's okay, i'll support you and hopefully you'l support me... hehehe
<GunbladeIV> sure.. no problem
<GunbladeIV> i know your contribution to our community
<GunbladeIV> hehe.. no worries..
<e-jat> done ..
<e-jat> check it out ..
<GunbladeIV> e-jat, thanks a lot
<GunbladeIV> good luck with your meeting later dude
<ApOgEE-> e-jat, thanks
<lifeless> hi
<lifeless> is it time?
<lifeless> persia: is it now?
<ApOgEE-> hi all
<persia> lifeless: It is now.
<persia> Our fearless leader seems absent though :(
<persia> Hmm.  Without amachu, TheMuso, Belutz, or zakame, I'm not sure we can reach quorum
 * persia waves at elkbuntu
<ApOgEE-> hi lifeless , hi persia
<persia> ApOgEE-: Good evening.  We're a little understaffed so far, apologies for the confusion.
<GunbladeIV> meeting has started?
<ApOgEE-> persia, it's okay...
<GunbladeIV> hi everyone
<nixternal> persia: what meeting is this?
<persia> nixternal: Asia-Oceania RMB
<nixternal> can I go for membership? :P
<lifeless> persia: clearly we need a tighter acronym
<lifeless> AORMB
<nixternal> that sounds like a weapon of mass destruction lifeless :)
<amachu> I have to apologise, went out of power at my place
<amachu> elkbuntu: hi
<persia> amachu: No worries: we could hardly start without you :)
<lifeless> elkbuntu: are thou here?
<ApOgEE-> ;)
<leoquant> nixternal: RMB is the name of a German electronic music band
<amachu> persia: lifeless: thanks for backing
<ApOgEE-> ni amachu
<ApOgEE-> hi amachu
<amachu> ApOgEE-: Hi
<GunbladeIV> hello lifeless , persia , amachu , ApOgEE- and everyone else
<persia> I've sent queries to zakame and TheMuso, but Belutz wasn't at that nick.
<ApOgEE-> hello GunbladeIV
<lifeless> are we quorate?
<persia> We are confirmed three, but likely need four for quorum.
<amachu> persia: we shall wait
<lifeless> amachu: well, at 2200 I need to stop regardless
<persia> I'm tempted to call a failed quorum at 11:30, if we don't have enough, and try again next week.
<ApOgEE-> persia, owh...
<persia> ApOgEE-: It's not that we are trying to avoid your application, it's that right now we can't, and sitting around waiting just frustrates those of us who are here, which can impact future meetings.
<persia> \o/ We are quorate!
<TheMuso> Sorry I'm late, got called away to deal with some family stuff.
<ApOgEE-> hi TheMuso thank god you're here
<ApOgEE-> ;)
<ApOgEE-> so, shall we begin?
<amachu__> hi
<elkbuntu> gah
<amachu__> elkbuntu: ha
<persia> 5 of us.  Now we're really going.  Let's start.
<amachu__> yes
 * elkbuntu waits
<ApOgEE-> persia, ok
 * ApOgEE- is ready
<GunbladeIV> Ok, Im good to go
 * GunbladeIV ready
<amachu__> ApOgEE-: GunbladeIV: Hi, We apologise for the delay..
<amachu__> ApOgEE-: We will start with you
<ApOgEE-> amachu__, no problem
<GunbladeIV> no problem , as i notice that we must have quorate before it begin
<ApOgEE-> so, where should i begin?
<amachu__> Please go ahead introducing yourself, and yourself and contributions you have made etc.,
<ApOgEE-> Greetings to all Board Members and fellow meeting members
<ApOgEE-> My real name is Muhammad Fauzilkamil Bin Zainuddin and as you see, my nick is always ApOgEE-
<lifeless> it is shorter:)
<ApOgEE-> I'm working as Software Engineer in a small WIreless Broadband Provider company in Kuala Lumpur
<elkbuntu> in future, can people please have these introductions pre-typed
<TheMuso> Agreed.
<ApOgEE-> anyway, for further readings, you can check my wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApOgEE
<ApOgEE-> that should make it faster
<ApOgEE-> heheh
<ApOgEE-> I've been contributing in Ubuntu just early this year
 * TheMuso is amused with the fact that the wiki page is written in third person. :) Nothing wrong with that of course.
<persia> ApOgEE-: Looking at your wiki, I'm not seeing a lot of links to things, although in your testimonials, I see references to forums and website.  Can you point us to some specific things you have done?
<amachu__> ApOgEE-: iRC support, helping in organising events, beyond that?
<ApOgEE-> persia, actually I've been working on distributing Ubuntu through my clients
<ApOgEE-> Apart of my fulltime work, i'm also providing technical services to customers and personals
<ApOgEE-> so, there where I promote Ubuntu
<amachu__> customers, personals - be specific
<ApOgEE-> I'm also contributing in Ubuntu Malay Translation
<ApOgEE-> check out https://launchpad.net/~apogee
<ApOgEE-> In company where I work, we are providing wireless broadband for some Condominiums and apartments
<ApOgEE-> since then, my customers always asking for technical support others than our internet services
<persia> ApOgEE-: Have you brought a fanclub to the meeting?
<ApOgEE-> sometimes, for virus problems and so on
<GunbladeIV> glad to see nbliang here
<GunbladeIV> hi nbliang
<ApOgEE-> so, I'm always promoting Ubuntu to these customers
<nbliang> GunbladeIV: hi, is it finish?
<GunbladeIV> nope.. just started.. ApOgEE- 's turn right now
<ApOgEE-> since then, I've been unofficial Ubuntu support for them
<persia> In the interests of ensuring that we hear both candidates, and from the light documentation on the wiki, and small volume of translations in LP, I'm going to vote -1 at this time.  ApOgEE-: Please keep up the work, add more links to your wiki page, and come back to us soon.
<ApOgEE-> others than that, I regularly helps Malaysian Ubuntu users in http://forums.ubuntu.com.my
<amachu_> ApOgEE-: The launchpad page need to have more info i feel
<ApOgEE-> and I'm now working on tranlating Ubuntu Full Circle magazine for malay language
<nbliang> well, ApOgEE- may not have much info in the LP and wiki but he does surely active in the Ubuntu Malaysia forum
<TheMuso> I'd have to agree with persia, but say +0. ApOgEE- it seems you are doing some great work already, but I feel your wiki page is a little light on details, and the launchpad page to me also loos a little bare.
<TheMuso> ApOgEE-: But please keep up the great work, and consider re-applying and coming back to talk to us in the coming weeks.
<elkbuntu> persia, im going to vote 0 too
<amachu_> TheMuso: I feel the same
<persia> lifeless: ?
<lifeless> I'm +0
<lifeless> I think the out of launchpad stuff sounds great
<amachu_> ApOgEE-: Keep up the good work. The information and links in both wiki and launchpad aren't sufficient, I feel
<lifeless> I'd be +1 if there were some customers here to say that apogee really made the difference
<ApOgEE-> amachu_, i see
<lifeless> or perhaps some stats on the UM forum activity?
<lifeless> ApOgEE-: are there some stats on the UM forums ?
<persia> lifeless: I could agree with that: I might also be more with some review of the work in the forums
<ApOgEE-> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine/TranslateFullCircle
<persia> Apologies for a short end, but could we also hear from GunbladeIV?  I'm worried about the end of the meeting.
<ApOgEE-> I'm sorry if it didn't satisfy you guys
<GunbladeIV> should i start now?
<ApOgEE-> ok then
<lifeless> ApOgEE-: what we're trying to assess is sustained community contributions - you're clearly getting in and doing things.
<lifeless> ApOgEE-: if you keep doing that you'll get +1 all around with no trouble, but right now its early days, and you're just started
<ApOgEE-> lifeless, okay...
<lifeless> GunbladeIV: yes please
<GunbladeIV> Hello, Im Mohd Faizul Zulkipli from Malaysia.  I am a student at my local university on getting my first diploma for IT programming and supporter for Ubuntu and actively involved on our local community program by spreading and helping user through web forum, and irc. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gunbladeiv [wiki] and https://launchpad.net/~gunbladeiv [launchpad]
<amachu_> ApOgEE-: Certainly, you have put efforts, and to make it out here says that. Please continue your good work. We wish to see you back soon.
<GunbladeIV> currently I'm taking responsibility as the webmaster for http://ubuntu.com.my and http://forums.ubuntu.com.my which currently the only ubuntu malaysia local community website.
<GunbladeIV> and yes just manage to develop the planet for Ubuntu-my communnity so that we could gather all sort of ubuntu information on a spot where malaysian could easily get help other than visiting forum
<ApOgEE-> thanks amachu_
<amachu_> GunbladeIV: Ubuntu user since 2000?
<GunbladeIV> i guess it is a typo error.
<GunbladeIV> 2005
<GunbladeIV> sorry..
<elkbuntu> hehe, i didnt pick that up
<amachu_> can you elaborate more about "Ubuntu Malaysia first meetup on UiTM Shah Alam, Selangor"
<GunbladeIV> Yeah, actually Ive been involved with the official ubuntu meetup on early 2008
<elkbuntu> involved how?
<GunbladeIV> i've been given task to organize and setup the facility.
<GunbladeIV> I'm one of the commitee members for the events as I make sure the event went smooth.
<GunbladeIV> at the end of the event we have some free discussion on Ubuntu generally, I act as one of the comittee where people could try to get help for any problem they are having with Ubuntu.  Most of the participant are students drom UiTM(university) itself
<elkbuntu> how many have you done so far?
<GunbladeIV> how many? meetup?
<nbliang> so far we only have 1 official meetup, rite GunbladeIV ?
<GunbladeIV> As I mention, that this is the first meetup.  But we are planning to do the next meetup within the end of this year
<elkbuntu> and this already happened, or is still yet to happen?
<ApOgEE-> yes one official meetup
<GunbladeIV> elkbuntu, already happened
<amachu> GunbladeIV: Please be little eloborate
<elkbuntu> cool, how many people did you have there?
<GunbladeIV> i have some pictures if you would like to take a look
<GunbladeIV> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sumardi/sets/72157603969964943/
<GunbladeIV> amachu : elaborate ?
<lifeless> ApOgEE-: so GunbladeIV is running the my forums as webmaster ? how is he doing?
<GunbladeIV> wb nbliang
<ApOgEE-> lifeless, yes, he is doing great
<persia> Last week, e-jat was reported as the webmaster.  Did this change?
<lifeless> persia: good memory :)
<ApOgEE-> persia, no, they both are administrators and webmasters of ubuntu.com.my
<persia> lifeless: logs
<GunbladeIV> nope, actually we both are webmaster, I get the task mostly from e-jat and some other members for any particular changes need to be made
<lifeless> persia: still; to know to check.
<amachu> GunbladeIV: explain more how you helped...
<GunbladeIV> as I'm the most familiar with the entire forum
<ApOgEE-> persia, FYI we do work in team
<nbliang_> yes, we do work in team
<nbliang_> :)
<amachu> like how many people particiapted
<GunbladeIV> we do have a little board members on ubuntu-my organization where e-jat and I work hand by hand to make things work.
<amachu> the objectives of the meeting
<ApOgEE-> even if my name is not in the admin/webmaster of the forum, we support each other to help ubuntu users from malaysia solving their problems
<GunbladeIV> i see.
<amachu> and more..
<nbliang_> ok guys, got to go... catching my plane back home
<amachu> apart from being assigned the roles, what more have you contributed?
<GunbladeIV> amachu: there are 150-200 people participate, where in the morning session we have some talk generally based on Ubuntu/debian system on how to use Ubuntu on daily basis.  There are several IT specialist such as kaeru, sharuzzaman who gave speech
<GunbladeIV> I've been making some small classes to my lecturer last semester on how to setup ubuntu as my lecturer mostly familiar with windows environment
<TheMuso> I don't know about the other council members, but I'd say we take a vote at this point.
<GunbladeIV> I've been taking Ubuntu on the Opensource syllibus on my University to replace mandriva
<GunbladeIV> Ok
<amachu> the wiki should have reflected all these and more I feel
<ApOgEE-> actually, as I'm always in malaysian team, I can verify that GunbladeIV have done more works on getting the website up and running. those sites are http://ubuntu.com.my http://forums.ubuntu.com.my http://planet.ubuntu.com.my
<elkbuntu> TheMuso, agreed. GunbladeIV, while i think you're doing good things, im not seeing any sustainment. 0 from me.
<persia> I always like to hear from fanclub, if anyone is around.
<lifeless> well nbliang was fanvlubbing
<lifeless> and ApOgEE-
<GunbladeIV> :)
<persia> OK.  If that was the set, I've seen them all :)
<ApOgEE-> yes
<GunbladeIV> up to the board members now :)
<GunbladeIV> sorry for my bad english
<GunbladeIV> done~
<persia> GunbladeIV: I'm going to agree with elkbuntu.  Everything you've described looks excellent, but it's not been sustained over a period of time.  +0.  With more time doing the same things, you're exceedingly likely to be approved.
<amachu> GunbladeIV: would like to see more from you before giving +1
<lifeless> I'm +0 again - good current effort, but needs a bit more time to cook
<TheMuso> Agreed once again, +0 from me.
<TheMuso> My thoughts have already been echoed by the other coouncil members.
<TheMuso> council
<ApOgEE-> I hope I can learn more from all of you
<ApOgEE-> ;)
<GunbladeIV> Okay, I will be here again in the near future guys. Hope to have a good advise before we end?
<elkbuntu> ApOgEE-, that's why we like to see sustainment. it means you've had time to learn :)
<elkbuntu> there is not a single member who did not learn heaps from their journey to membership.
<ApOgEE-> elkbuntu, read that... thanks
<GunbladeIV> thanks guys for your time.
<lifeless> GunbladeIV: my advise is to keep contributing, perhaps blog or otherwise note down the things you do; that provides us with good insight into your contributions
<ApOgEE-> thanks for your time
<lifeless> GunbladeIV: in this member ship board we're looking for community contributions rather than code (which the MOTU board looks for)
<lifeless> GunbladeIV: so the sorts of things you're doing are all great; just need to see some more duration/weight behind them
<ApOgEE-> if you would like to read my humble blog, feel free to visit http://coderstalk.blogspot.com
<GunbladeIV> lifeless, Ok, i notice that. well I will be here again in the near future for sure.  I keep update my contribution as re enter my University in 8 days from now.
<lifeless> GunbladeIV: that sounds like a great plan
<ApOgEE-> yeah, mee too
<GunbladeIV> lifeless, yup, got plan too. I'll update it on my blog and wiki for sure
<GunbladeIV> And the important thing is to change the 2000 typo error .. LOL
<ApOgEE-> actually I've planned to contribute on ubuntu-motu, i'll update my journey on it then
<TheMuso> Ok if thats everyone, I think we can call this meeting adjourned.
<ApOgEE-> thank you very much for your time
<ApOgEE-> thanks TheMuso, amachu, lifeless, persia, elkbuntu
<ApOgEE-> thanks GunbladeIV
<lifeless> TheMuso: ack.
<ApOgEE-> ;)
<lifeless> np ApOgEE-, GunbladeIV see you another time
<ApOgEE-> thanks everyone
<lifeless> amachu___: we're calling it before you use up the entire allowed nickname width
<amachu___> ApOgEE-: GunbladeIV : yes
<TheMuso> lifeless: heh
<amachu___> lifeless: I need to have two connection
<lifeless> amachu___: one for the left hand, one for the right?
<amachu___> lifeless: :-)
<TheMuso> lol
<amachu___> the ISP is dis-continuous, I should not say this next week
<amachu___> i am saying this for the second continuous time
<amachu___> well, Thank you all for particiapting
<GunbladeIV> thanks for the time : lifeless , amachu , elkbuntu , TheMuso and persia
<amachu___> GunbladeIV: ApOgEE- : It is good to see all of you work as team
<amachu___> Please continue your good work and make Ubuntu rock at Malaysia
<GunbladeIV> yeah! i've been eager to see ubuntu-my become offical loco team
<elkbuntu> you guys need to work with the other teams in the region
<ApOgEE-> thanks amachu___ we are already rockin in Malaysia
<GunbladeIV> working on it. dont worry amachu___
<GunbladeIV> elkbuntu, yeah. we've been talking with some ubuntu-id members like udienz and belutz for the join venture events
<elkbuntu> i mentioned last week that teams like singapore could use a helping hand too :)
<GunbladeIV> :) I will try to discuss with em
<GunbladeIV> it just we need to increase the members of -my community on the first hand and educate more users
<GunbladeIV> elkbuntu, you from singapore ?
<elkbuntu> GunbladeIV, no unfortunately
<ApOgEE-> so, elkbuntu you've know us, so, can i know a bit about you then?
<GunbladeIV> :D i thought you are one of the ubuntu-sg member
<amachu> :-)
 * Hobbsee suggests looking at people's wiki pages, if you're looking for information about them.
<elkbuntu> ApOgEE-, i am no secret
<elkbuntu> https://launchpad.net/~melissa
<amachu> persia: TheMuso : lifeless : elkbuntu : Thank you all.
<TheMuso> Thanks folks.
<GunbladeIV> nice
<ApOgEE-> elkbuntu, hopefully your story will inspire me
<GunbladeIV> elkbuntu, thanks for spending little time on advising and tips
<ApOgEE-> how about you persia ? are you persian anyway?
<persia> ApOgEE-: Nope.  See launchpad.net/~persia and links therefrom
<amachu> see you back..
<amachu> bye
<amachu> :-)
<GunbladeIV> persia, japan?
<persia> GunbladeIV: Yes.
<GunbladeIV> great.
<GunbladeIV> i need to catch up my dinner. starve already. brb
<ApOgEE-> persia, the company where i work use the same name
<ApOgEE-> www.persiasys.com
<ApOgEE-> i'm working with persian boss hehe
<ApOgEE-> GunbladeIV, me too
 * ApOgEE- going for dinner
 * GunbladeIV signing off - bye
<dholbach> @schedule
<ubottu> dholbach: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Jul 15:00:  Server Team | 01 Jul 21:00: Community Council | 02 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 02 Jul 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC
<mathiaz> hello !
<sommer> yo
<nijaba> o/
<nxvl> \o/
<Koon> \o
<mathiaz> \/o\
<nxvl>  /o\
<ScottK> Hello.
<persia> This is not a game of Life.
<mathiaz> all right - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last meeting logs are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080624
 * nealmcb cheers for mootbot :)
<mathiaz> I've followed up on ubuntu-devel about MIR for Recommends
<mathiaz> there has been some discussion since then
<ScottK> It seems pretty clear now.
<NeilW> What's MIR
<mathiaz> ScottK: so the outcome is that Recommends should either be MIRed or dropped Suggests
<ScottK> Main Inclusion Report.
<ScottK> NeilW: It's the process for getting stuff moved from Universe to Main.
<mathiaz> ScottK: dropped to Suggests, correct ?
<NeilW> ScottK: Ta
<ScottK> I think policy defines what should be Recommeds/Suggests.
<mathiaz> NeilW: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<ScottK> But yes, Recommends should get promoted.
<ScottK> It would be very handy if someone could whip up a script to check for missing recommends in Main.
<nxvl> we should revert the recomeds by default, it's a nightmare
<mathiaz> ScottK: I think that will come out of the component mismatch list
<nxvl> :D
<nijaba> ScottK: I think germinate should take care of that, yes
<ScottK> mathiaz: But not until germinate is updated.  It'd be nice to get a head start.
<mathiaz> ScottK: IIRC cjwatson is adding support for recommends to germinate
<ScottK> Yes, but when?
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24240/ work in progress, just needs to be tested
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/24240/ work in progress, just needs to be tested
<ScottK> Ah.  Cool.
<cjwatson> feel free to run that locally and look at the differences
<nxvl> ScottK: in that case better to ping cjwatson and help him that wrote a new one and duplicate efforts
<ScottK> Agreed.
<mathiaz> allright - how hard do you think it is to write up a MIR ?
<ScottK> I didn't know it was so close.
<mathiaz> Is it something that should be given to new contributors ?
<ScottK> mathiaz: Not very.  It's a bit tedious, but the template lays out the steps.
<ScottK> mathiaz: Not new, but it's not just for developers.
<mathiaz> ScottK: right - I don't think it requires a in-depth knowledge of packaging
<ScottK> sommer did his first one over the weekend and I had only very minor comments.
<mathiaz> right - so creating a list of MIR related to the ubuntu-server team could be a good option
<ScottK> There are some FHS and packaging related questions.
<ScottK> Yes.
<cjwatson> (it's a while since I wrote the above patch; I'm slightly confused by some of it in retrospect, so I might fiddle with it some more)
<mathiaz> and promote it as tasks for getting involved in the team
<cjwatson> I'd rather we weren't flooded by MIRs from all and sundry, the way we're flooded by specifications
<cjwatson> while it isn't technically restricted to developers, it should not be advertised as something that users or even bug triagers should do
<ScottK> mathiaz: I think any MIR should be reviewed by experienced people before it gets to ubuntu-mir.
<Koon> mathiaz: the "Standards Compliance" questions are the difficult ones, the others are quite straightforward
<ScottK> mathiaz: I'd suggest as long as it's clear that non-developers should get them reviewed, it's good.  Even if someone can do part of a MIR it's a help.
<mathiaz> cjwatson: re flooded - the  mir will have to be written anyway - are you more concerned about the quality of the report ?
<nxvl> cjwatson: do you think we can work on the schema that contributor do the work, then server team reviews it and then it jumps to -mir team?
<cjwatson> mathiaz: mistaken premise detected: "the MIR will have to be written anyway" - I'm talking about being flooded by ones that *aren't* necessary
<cjwatson> nxvl: yes
<ScottK> nxvl: I think you are a prime candidate for doing MIR.
<nxvl> ScottK: if augeas is accepted today i will
<ScottK> I've got plenty of others you can practice on.
<nxvl> ScottK: until it still gets faling, i don't have much time
<mathiaz> cjwatson: right - so once the list of component mismatch includes recommends, it should first be reviewed by a dev to figure out which should have MIR written for
<cjwatson> yes
<ScottK> We also have specs that are driving MIR requirements.
<cjwatson> inexperienced people definitely shouldn't be pointed to the full list, since it often includes items that represent bugs in dependencies
 * mathiaz nods
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> so, if we want more people getting involved in this, we should review they work before it goes to -mir team
<mathiaz> but once we have a list of packages that have to be MIRed, then we can ask people to write up the MIR and get them reviewed by a dev before subscribing ubuntu-mir
<nxvl> or try to work on a 101 basis, that a member of the team suscribes to a MIR and always review it
<ScottK> We have to know it exists first.
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> yes
<soren> o/
<mathiaz> ok - so we sort of have a plan for recommends and MIRs
<nxvl> but i think that mathiaz mean
<nxvl> to write a post saying "if you want to get involved take a llok at this MIRs"
<nxvl> mathiaz: didn't you?
<mathiaz> nxvl: yes that was my plan
<mathiaz> I'll refine the process before writting up the post
<nxvl> so i was thinking about that
<mathiaz> and there needs to be some work done by a dev before that
<nxvl> so i was thinking on mathiaz writing "here is a list of MIRs you can work on, if you want please contact us for guidance"
<ScottK> For the ones that are spec'ed the pre-work is already done.
<mathiaz> nxvl: yes - that's the last step of the plan
<nxvl> :D
<mathiaz> all right - let's move on
<nxvl> we need to make a list of volunteers who want to review those MIRs also
<mathiaz> that's all I have with regard to last meeting minutes
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Spec status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec status
<ScottK> For my specs, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/amavisd-dkim is doing quite well.  All the MIRs are done and all but one got approved by doko.  I've addressed his comments on the one.
<ScottK> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-flavors is deferred.  Too much work in to little time.
<ScottK> Finally, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/clamav-spamassassin-in-main has a stack of MIR that need to be written.  Volunteers wanted.
<ScottK> sommer: Thanks for the one you did.
<sommer> np, should have time this week for some more
<ScottK> If anyone wants mentoring on doing MIR, I'll do if for ones in that spec.
<lukehasnoname> server flavors: Getting bumped to intrepid+1?
<ScottK> Anyone else working on specs?
<mathiaz> ScottK: did you review sommer MIR ?
<ScottK> lukehasnoname: Yes, unless someone decides to sponsor me a bunch of time to do it.  I don't have the free time to get it for Intrepid.
<ScottK> mathiaz: I did and only had some small comments.
<nxvl> o/
<mathiaz> ScottK: great - would you consider being the reviewer for all the other MIR related to clamav-spamassassing-in-main spec ?
<ScottK> He checked with me before subscribing ubuntu-mir just as we've discussed today people should do.
<ScottK> mathiaz: Yes.
<nxvl> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-centralized-services-administrator
<ScottK> Note that the spec is marked mentoring offerred by me.
<mathiaz> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> lukehasnoname: Did you get my answer to your question.
<mathiaz> I'm going to update the Roadmap with links to the current specs
<ScottK> nxvl: How is it going?
<lukehasnoname> ScottK: Yes
<mathiaz> So that we can review them during this meeting
<nxvl> ScottK: i think i have augeas done
<nxvl> the mayor bug has been already fixed
<nxvl> and i've got my 1st ack
<ScottK> From who?
<mathiaz> [ACTION]: ScottK to be the reviewer for MIR related to clamav-spamassassin-in-main
<MootBot> ACTION received: : ScottK to be the reviewer for MIR related to clamav-spamassassin-in-main
<nxvl> but some things have just been comment, but i haven't check them
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the ServerTeam roadmap with the list of intrepid specs.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the ServerTeam roadmap with the list of intrepid specs.
<nxvl> they are just minor stuff that i think are good
<nealmcb> ScottK: do we need a way to support longer term specs?  perhaps finish discussion and start the flavors one soon for intrepid+2?  Otherwise the answer may always bee "too much work in too little time"... perhaps some of the other related activities can bite off pieces of it?
<ScottK> nealmcb: Agreed.  I plan to not forget about it.
<mathiaz> As reminded wrt to the release schedule, the deadline to get specs into intrepid is FeatureFreeze, scheduled for August 28th
<nealmcb> s/+2/+1....
<nxvl> also for ucsa
<ScottK> nxvl: norsetto's comments are good ones.
<mathiaz> By that time, new features should be in intrepid and be working somehow
<nxvl> i don't will have time to finish it for intrepid
<nxvl> also in Prague we point it for next LTS
<nxvl> ScottK: yes, i will review them after the meeting, i'm not sure about the licenses thing
<mathiaz> all right -anything else related to specs ?
<ScottK> nxvl: I think your spec is ambitious enough that aiming it two years out was a smart move.
<nealmcb> I still haven't looked at it closely, but wonder if getting some frontend (eBox?) to use augeas by Intrepid would be a big step forward
<nxvl> ScottK: yes, augeas has do a lot of work for me, and i won't use all that time, but yes
<ScottK> IIRC nxvl discussed that with ebox.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: that's quit ambitious - the ebox dev are looking into that
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> mathiaz and me talked to the eBox developers
<nealmcb> but e.g. if folks interested in the admin area were to help ebox, that might move everyone's agenda forward
<nxvl> and augeas has some stoppers for it
<nxvl> one of them being it lacks on a LOT of lenses
<nxvl> so it doesn't support much services
<nxvl> <- working on it
<nxvl> and the other one is the perl support
<nealmcb> should we have a spec for augeas for intrepid?
<nxvl> but yesterday was released the perl binding, so it will be tested and used in some days
<nijaba> nxvl: that one thing other can help on, right?
<ScottK> nealmcb: We don't need to spec getting a package added to Universe.
<ScottK> I think Main would be very premature for it.
<nxvl> nijaba: writing lenses? yes of course
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I think that nxvl is doing a good job
<nxvl> nijaba: i'm waiting for augeas to reach the archives to make a call for lensers
<mathiaz> nealmcb: we don't need to have spec written for everything
<nijaba> nxvl: great
<nealmcb> specs are about setting direction also and documenting it in a way that more casual observers can see and comment or help
<nxvl> nijaba: they are not hard to write, and a new contributor is going to be able to do it
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, like me?? lol
<mathiaz> nxvl: I think that once augeas is in the archive, we can think about the next step
<mathiaz> nxvl: such as writing lenses
<ScottK> nealmcb: I think that augeaus is an interesting idea, but it would be premature for Ubuntu to put an official stamp of approval on it.
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: yes, that will be your homework :D
<mathiaz> nxvl: let's focus first on getting augeas uploaded in the archive
<nxvl> mathiaz: yes, that's why i haven't make the call for lensers already
<soren> Is anything in particular blocking it right now?
<mathiaz> and start to play with it and see what can be done with it
<nxvl> soren: augeas you mean? i fixed the blocker 2 hours ago
<nxvl> (finally!)
<soren> The rpath thing?
<nxvl> yep
<soren> Ok, cool.
<nxvl> i have had nightmares with rpath and autotools for the last 2 weeks
<foolano> nxvl: i'll take care of creating the perl bindings for augeas in order to start playing with it in eBox
<nxvl> foolano: i have just fwd a mail to the ebox-devel list
<nxvl> foolano: there is a perl binding for augeas, released yesterday, better take a look at it and help on it's development
<mathiaz> allright - let's move on
<foolano> nxvl: oh that's cool
<ScottK> Any other specs people are working on?
<soren> VM builder stuff.
<ScottK> How's it going?
<soren> I'm rewriting the whole thing in Python to make it easier to use from other applications.
<mathiaz> soren: would you consider doing a blog post about it ?
<nealmcb> !
<nijaba> soren: do you need help or should we let you work on it for the time beig?
 * lukehasnoname concurs with nealmcb
<nijaba> being, even
<soren> Pretty well considering.. It currently bootstraps a kvm hardy guest just fine. I'm still working some stuff out about the structure, bu pretty soon it should be ready for use and peopel can start writing plugins.
<soren> mathiaz: Already in the works :)
<nealmcb> that is the same rationale I had in mind - sweet
<soren> nijaba: I'll let you know. Very soon now. :)
 * nijaba can't wait
<nijaba> soren: is it ready yet?
<soren> nijaba: It works.
<lukehasnoname> is vm builder a spec?
<lukehasnoname> where can I keep updated about it?
<soren> nijaba: ...but it's not complete compared to the old vm-builder.
<nealmcb> lukehasnoname: not just a spec - a whole religion, with a creation myth etc
<soren> nijaba: At all.
<nxvl> what we will need are documenters for vm builder
<soren> That too.
<nxvl> cause soren is a good developer, but lazy on documentation
<nijaba> soren: yep, I looked at your first upload
<nxvl> soren: didn't you?
<mathiaz> soren: especially that you mentionned plugins ...
<soren> nxvl: I'm actually documenting stuff this time :)
<mathiaz> soren: anyway - it seems that we should wait for your first code drop
<soren> mathiaz: The first code drop is on launchpad already.
<nxvl> \o/
<mathiaz> soren: and then we can start poking at it
<nijaba> mathiaz: it is, indeed
 * nxvl waves on soren 
<mathiaz> soren: right - but is it ready for other's consumption ?
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VMBuilderSpec
<nxvl> * evoryone start downloading
<mathiaz> soren: ^^ that's my point
<mathiaz> soren: if it's not ready and you'll only get flooded by bugs that you know of
<mathiaz> soren: there isn't much to gain to ask others for testing
<soren> mathiaz: I wouldn't recommend submitting patches right now, as things are still getting moved around a lot.
<soren> mathiaz: ...but if people are curious, or want to give ffedback on the design, that's cool.
<mathiaz> soren: so this is alpha code - expect things to break and not work
<nijaba> soren: so we wait until it is "structure" complete, and then start breaking everything ;)
<soren> Oh, yes. Very much.
<nxvl> i don't find it on LP
<lukehasnoname> where is it on launchpad?
<lukehasnoname> nxvl: heh
<soren> Under ubuntu-jeos somewhere. Hang on.
<nxvl> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/ubuntu-jeos/python-rewrite
<nxvl> this one?
<soren> Yup
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on now
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server survey status
<mathiaz> owh asked me about an update on the server survey
<nijaba> so as I am in london today and tomorrow
<mathiaz> nijaba: any news on this front ?
<nijaba> I just talked with elmo about it
<nijaba> he now has found some hw for it
<nijaba> and should set it up real soon now
 * nijaba waiting on this...
<lukehasnoname> server survey: Talkin about that goofy german one, or an Ubuntu sponsored one?
<nxvl> lukehasnoname: goofy german one?
<nijaba> what goofy german one?
<nxvl> lukehasnoname: we try not to talk about people that way
<nxvl> please don't
<nijaba> lukehasnoname: we are talking about a survey that we developped 3 mo ago
<nxvl> or more
<nxvl> :P
<nijaba> but have not published yet
<lukehasnoname> nxvl: the survey was goofy, not the germans. Anyway, there was an odd link in the server ML
<lukehasnoname> nevermind, that's obviously not what we're talking about
<soren> lukehasnoname: It's called "tact". Look it up.
<nxvl> oh! ok
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok - so we're waiting on deployment
<nxvl> sorry about that
<nxvl> :P
<nijaba> mathiaz: yep
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion.
<lukehasnoname> nxvl: Thank YOU for understanding.
<soren> I mean... The survey is not called "tact".
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add anything ?
<lukehasnoname> Has anyone had personal experience with NetDirector?
<nijaba> also, what would you say if some analyst firm joined the survey?
<nxvl> well
 * ogra wants to add beer in lexington 
<nxvl> i wanted to talk about it
<ogra> (lots of it)
<nxvl> lukehasnoname: i wont
<mathiaz> ogra: we'll get to that point soon
<ogra> heh
<soren> ogra: I think beer is implied in sprinting.
<nxvl> it's exactly what i talked in Prague i don't want
<soren> Otherwise you're doing it wrong.
<nealmcb> what sprint in lexington?
<nxvl> just another tool that make me open more ports
<nijaba> soren: is diet coke ok for sprinting?
<lukehasnoname> nxvl: I believe the #openbsd channel is that way ---->
<soren> nijaba: Add some rum, andyou're good.
<nijaba> soren: good, I'll do that :)
<nxvl> lukehasnoname: ?
 * nealmcb . o O ("Open Discussion"  you got it!)
<mathiaz> so it seems that these topics are not really related to the server team
<mathiaz> so I'll close the meeting with the last topic
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ?
<soren> wfm
 * nijaba repeats: what would you say if some analyst firm joined the survey?
<nxvl> yes
<soren> nijaba: I'm not sure I know what that means?
<mathiaz> nijaba: what would they do ?
<nxvl> some topics get lost thanks to ogra :D
<nealmcb> who is going to oscon?  Besides the folks I see on the program :)
<nijaba> endorse it, get to use the raw results
<nijaba> (anonymous)
<nijaba> marketing is suggesting it
<mathiaz> nijaba: endorse -> wider coverage ?
<soren> The raw results are not going to be public?
<nijaba> mathiaz: yep...
<nijaba> soren: yes, but only what we choose to present, not the actual individual answers
<soren> Hm. Ok.
<mathiaz> nijaba: I don't have a problem if they can get us more people to take the survey
<mathiaz> nijaba: as long as there isn't any restrictions on the usage of the results
<nealmcb> does the server team get to see the raw results?
<mathiaz> nijaba: ie anyone could ask for the raw results and do whatever they want with it
<nijaba> mathiaz: there will not be.  it IS a community survey, I have made that clear
<sommer> nijaba: seems like a good idea to me
<nijaba> the server team, yes
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubottu> mathiaz: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Server Team | 01 Jul 21:00: Community Council | 02 Jul 12:00: Bugs for Hugs Day | 02 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<lukehasnoname> Goodbye, gentlemen.
<mathiaz> nijaba: well - that seems a reasonable idea then
<nijaba> ok, so I'll transmit to marketing, see what they come up with.  thanks
<mathiaz> nijaba: just making clear that the results are "GPLed"
<nealmcb> still seems a bit unclear to me - is raw being used in two different ways?
<nijaba> raw: individual answers (the survey database) is what I call the raw data
<nijaba> this should not be made public
<mathiaz> nijaba: for privacy reason
<nijaba> as it would be against the privacy statement
<mathiaz> nijaba: but what about anonymising the results ?
<nijaba> the graph, or whatever analysis of the data we produce: this WILL be public
<nealmcb> correlations of answers are often of great interest, and using translucent database techniques can be useful, but still tricky
<nijaba> mathiaz: even that is very dangerous.  I would be ok for anonymized data to be used within our team
<nealmcb> mathiaz: right - anonymising == translucency
<nijaba> but publishing them can lead to other issues
<ScottK> They critical thing is to make sure however it is used is clearly disclosed in advance.
<ScottK> They/The
 * nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> nijaba: so would you like anyone to make their own intrepretation of the survey results ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: outside of our team, I would not
<mathiaz> nijaba: or would you stop at releasing the data analysis but restrict access to the raw data to ubuntu-server members ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: exactly
<mathiaz> nijaba: is being part of ubuntu-server team LP enough to get  access to the raw data ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: I would say so, what other criteria would you add?
<mathiaz> nijaba: I don't know - I'm just trying to figure out which criteria should be used
<mathiaz> nijaba: so that we're clear upfront
<mathiaz> nijaba: FYI being part of ubuntu-server LP requires being subscribed to ubuntu-server@l.u.c - that's all.
<ScottK> I'd like to see signing code of conduct as a minimum requirement.
<nealmcb> Would those "raw" results be anonymized?  I would think that no one without some real need to know should be able to dig for ip addrs etc
<nijaba> mathiaz: isn't there an approval process?
<mathiaz> nijaba: IOW, only a subscribtion to ubuntu-server@l.u.c is needed to get access to the raw data of the survey
<mathiaz> nijaba: that's the only approval process that I make
<nijaba> nealmcb: of course we are talking about anonimized raw data
<mathiaz> nijaba: that's why I ask if that's enough to get access to the raw data
<nijaba> mathiaz: ok, good to know
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'd add that being an ubuntu member would raise the barrier a little bit
<nealmcb> nijaba: good.
<nijaba> mathiaz: good idea
<mathiaz> nijaba: at least people should be involved in the ubuntu community
<nijaba> mathiaz: I fully agree
<mathiaz> ok - so access to anonimized raw data will be given to members of the ubuntu-server team and ubuntumembers team.
<nijaba> (intersection of the 2, right)
<nijaba> ?
<mathiaz> hm - yes - I need to rephrase that
<nealmcb> and maybe a sponsor/analysis company?
<mathiaz> ok - so access to anonimized raw data will be given to members of both the ubuntu-server team and ubuntumembers team in LP.
<nijaba> mathiaz: yep, sounds good
<nealmcb> ...to the intersection of the two teams...
<nealmcb> (?)
<mathiaz> nijaba: if we can get a data analysis team onboard, that's ok too
<nijaba> ss to anonimized raw data will be given to members of both the ubuntu-server team and ubuntumembers team in LP (intersection of the 2 teams) and eventual analyst firm choosing to join the survey before publication.
<mathiaz> nijaba: in exchange of broader coverage they get access to the anonymised raw data
<nealmcb> just one analyst firm that we choose based on some criteria?  or anyone who helps?
<nijaba> nealmcb: if we get one, that we be good AND enough
 * nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> allright - seems good to me
 * nijaba nods
<mathiaz> so for the next meeting
<mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ?
<nijaba> good for me
<sommer> sure
<mathiaz> great - so see ya all next week, same time, same place
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:24.
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 02 Jul 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<popey> @schedule
<ubottu> popey: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Jul 21:00: Community Council | 02 Jul 12:00: Bugs for Hugs Day | 02 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team
<Salane> I assume this is where the CC meeting will be?
<Salane> Hello?
<Technoviking> Salane: yes in 10 minutes
<Salane> Ok just making sure.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jul 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<mako> greetings everyone
<Salane> Hello
<Technoviking> hey Mako
<Technoviking> no one else yet
<sabdfl> evening all
<Salane> Hello Mark
<Technoviking> hello Mark
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<sabdfl> do we have a quorum?
<sabdfl> Technoviking: just you and I? burgundavia?
<Technoviking> just Mako is here
<Salane> How many constitutes a quorum?
<sabdfl> i think three of us
<sabdfl> mako: aaround?
<mako> yes
<mako> just got ice cream :)
<sabdfl> lucky man, hopefully you have sunshine to match :-)
<sabdfl> mdke put the LP lists bullet on the agenda, but can't make it now
<mako> i do. i'll be doing this cc meeting from under a tree in harvard yard :)
<Salane> It is sunny in Kansas :D
<sabdfl> mako: stealth invasion from MIT?
<sabdfl> any comments on mdke's suggestions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/talk ? re lists
<sabdfl> going? going?
<Salane> Sounds like a great idea
<Technoviking> sabdfl: mdke suggestion are fine with me
<sabdfl> mako?
<mako> sorry, was reading
<mako> it looks great
<sabdfl> ok, i will mail mdke's text to LP, jono, elmo et al
<sabdfl> LP and jono between them should be able to execute on that
<sabdfl> any other ideas?
<Technoviking> none here
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> sent
<sabdfl> next
<mako> right
<mako> cool, so i remember this from the last time it was brought up
<sabdfl> i mailed jane about it (silbs, has helped with legal details on other loco matters)
<mako> right, this seems much more threshed out that it was last time
<sabdfl> jane was convinced this is a rabbithole
<Salane> So they are wanting what amounts to a different type of loco?
<sabdfl> that in the past, each time it's been done for good reasons, it's fallen apart later on
<sabdfl> Salane: no, they want a local legal entity
<sabdfl> Danish law allows for a reasonably lightweight thing, an Association
<mako> so the most important part of this proposal is one that explain why it is necessary to have a legal entity
<mako> why it's not possible to do things otherwise
<Salane> I understand
<Salane> has this been done before for a loco/group?
<mako> and i don't really see that here
<sabdfl> i think, for arranging a venue, for example, it's easier to have a legal entity
<sbc> mako: If I may answer, it is possible to do without, but it will make getting locations much more easy, also it will provide us with a democratic structure.
<sabdfl> than to ask someone to be individually responsible
<mako> right, that was alluded to in the Board section
<Salane> I just finished the article and the logs from the last meeting-
<mako> sbc: of course, you can have a democratic structure anyway
<mako> but if associations are necessary to get venues, it may still be a good idea if the trade-off is worth it
<mako> as in, the amount of time put in (on canonical's side and yours) saves you time in coordination
<Salane> Hmm
<sbc> mako: ofcourse. But a democratic structure that can handle money. If the loco team was to trust me with money and I ran off, they would have no way to go after me legaly. If they left money to the Associations there would be a responsibility (loosely said).
<smurf> In Germany we have one other advantage that we can only get with an association-style setup
<smurf> tax deductible donations
<mako> sbc: yes, the ability to hold money as a group can be a benefit
<sabdfl> it can also be a curse
<Salane> The same thing here in the US I think
<mako> right. apparently this has caused lots of headaches and work for canonical in regards to the trademark agreement and such
<mako> i'm still happy to ask people to make this possible if it looks like the tradeoff is worth it
<Salane> But I understand the position that there is a risk with making local groups not directly attached to Canonical official as to say.
<mako> Salane: i trust that we can work that out
<sabdfl> i would be willing to try it if it was agreed that the association would be dissolved if the CC felt it was not working
<Salane> That is a great idea
<sabdfl> and that the people who set it up agree to report to the CC regularly
<mako> sabdfl: we can put that in the agreement
<Salane> So for something like the Kansas loco this would not be appropriate, but for a larger CC that does a lot of events and is very involved they could receive official status, therefore enabling them to have this status?
<ogra> the german association (as in non profit org.) is separate from the LoCo btw ...
<mako> sabdfl: we should produce a list of things we (the CC) is concerned about, and then we can put that in the trademark agreement which can sort of act as the agreement or contract beteween their orga and ours
<mako> sabdfl: depends on how active the kansas loco is, the laws and policies in kansas, etc
<smurf> you can't exactly control whether the association gets dissolved, but what you can do is to withdraw e.g. trademark usage rights (so they'd have to change their name)
<mako> sorry, for Salane
<Salane> The Kansas loco is not active
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> that's all fine with me
<Salane> I have done somethings here- I was jstu saying for some group that was much larger it would be
<sabdfl> i need to clear it with silbs, but will recommend that we do +1
<mako> so i'm happy with the proposal of the oganization
<Technoviking> +1 here, sound like a great suggestion
<Salane> They would also have to present certain things, like meeting notes and such
<sbc> Yay! :)
<Salane> Directly to the CC
<mako> for future people doing this, i still think it would be good to have people write-up a description of why they feel that an association is necessary
<sabdfl> ok, Salane, would you mail me a reminder, please?
<mako> and i think we need to come up with a short of list things (perhaps on a cc email thread) for what we want out of orgnaizations
<Salane> sabdfl: Of some of my ideas? Of course
<mako> should at least include reporting, and basic responsiveness stuff
<mako> plus whatever silbs et al think is important
<mako> but yes, i'm +1 if we can go forward with that
<sbc> It would make our somming work much more easy if we have a list of 'requests from the CC' to apply to.
<sabdfl> ok
<Salane> I was very involved with the Boys Scouts of America and we had to do the same thing to retain our charter- so we could have members, insurance through the org. and etc.
<mako> sbc: mail the cc list asking for that. there are other people ont here who may have something to say
<mako> this is important enough that i want to at least run it by the full council if possible
<Salane> Its simliar to that
<sabdfl> sorry, should have asked sbc to mail me, not Salane
<mako> :)
<sabdfl> should we move on to intrepid art?
<sbc> mako: So should I send a mail to the CC or sabdfl ?
<sbc> or both?
<Salane> Yeah that confused me sabdfl
<mako> sbc: thanks for following up on this. this is much of what i was looking for last time :)
<sbc> mako: great
<mako> mail sabdfl, it will get to the CC when appropriate, i'm sure
<Salane> Sounds awesome
<sabdfl> artwork! Salane, have we met?
<Salane> I do not believe so!
<Salane> This is my first CC actually
<sabdfl> welcome
<Salane> Should I give some background info?
<mako> welcome :)
<sabdfl> i very much agree with your sentiments on the art in ubuntu
<mako> Salane: outside of what is written alrady on the wiki
<Salane> Thanks!
<mako> which we just read, i think
<sabdfl> it's a long-standing dream of mine to get a more cohesive community engagement
<sabdfl> but ... it's been challenging
<Salane> I will give some background info
<sabdfl> at present, the situation is that kwii is responsible for it, together with the community
<sabdfl> but without very firm guidance either way
<Salane> Ok so what really needs to happen? I feel that the art team is very disorganized
<sabdfl> i would love to have a better result, a very strong design ethic, with community participation
<Salane> We have no way of really voting on things - perhaps a Launchpad scheme would be appropriate?
<Salane> So the community can help as a whole on this?
<sabdfl> i don't believe that voting will work
<sabdfl> what i observed with art was that we had a lot of passionate individuals, each of whom wanted their design to be "selected"
<sabdfl> but none of which were polished enough to be a whole theme
<Salane> I understand that - any time these things are discussed on the forums, users cant seem to agree
<Technoviking> I know at the last two UDS there was talk to setup some kinda site like Gnome Look or Ubuntu art
<Salane> True
<sabdfl> what i wanted, was to bless a leader ("artist in chief") for a release, who could provide the guidelines
<sabdfl> and have the community fill out the long tail
<Salane> Do we need to then make some guidelines, and have everyone work on it?
<mako> so we need someone with so compelling that people can get behind it :)
<sabdfl> but that just did not work
<sabdfl> yes, mako, i agree
<Technoviking> to get more community buy-in / feedback
<sabdfl> we need someone who has a mandate to JUST DO IT, and the time and money and skills to make a huge head start
<sabdfl> many art folks would say "i want my own theme"
<sabdfl> but we may also get many who will say "that's amazing work i will help flesh it out"
<sabdfl> and we should be open to that latter
<Salane> I have designed some mockups, but I feel things that I outlined on the talk page need to happen no matter what
<sabdfl> i think kwii is working on a very classy dark theme for intrepid, not as default, but for those who want it
<Salane> I know I do not care if "my theme" is chosen
<sabdfl> Salane: i think the font suggestion is brilliant
<sabdfl> and am very open to leadership there
<sabdfl> i think arne goetje would be a good person to speak with
<sabdfl> and nicholas spalinger
<Salane> The problem though with the font is where will we find a good open source font for this?
<sabdfl> i thought, from your comments on /talk, that you knew the answer to that!
<mako> right
<Salane> Well I can find good fonts, but they are either free and not open source or completely closed
<mako> Salane: i think you have done a pretty job of describing the problem. which is useful and which we have a lot of agreement on
<Salane> and there are other questions as well about some fonts if they follow certain Ubuntu guidelines
<sabdfl> such as?
<Salane> Some people suggested using the Red Hat Lib fonts for documents/ other apps, but it was pointed out there might be usage problems
<Salane> I looked into and i dont think that will be a problem
<Salane> But that is jsut one option
<sabdfl> it would certainly be good to be helping to improve the same fonts that others are working on, if they have the same basic goal
<Salane> sabdfl: With the system font, if it was decided to use a Humanist Sans Serif, what would be the best way of creating a FOSS font? I have found many free ones but not OS. We could create our own...
<sabdfl> a font is much harder to do than it sounds
<sabdfl> a great font is years of professional work
<sabdfl> would rather collaborate with other distros and upstreams
<Salane> Ok I agree with that
<sabdfl> but, in principle, we are happy to make changes, and fort you to lead the discussion
<Salane> Well there are other fonts that have been used in Gnome Art themes; should the art team then find about a dozen or so and have the CC vote on it?
<sabdfl> figure out what the options are, and the risks, and let's take a look at them
<sabdfl> we want one great sans, one great serif, one great mono
<sabdfl> Salane: will you report back to us?
<Salane> Like the font in Elegant Brit Gtk theme; it is very smooth and readable; much better than Ubuntu's current.
<Salane> Yes I will
<Salane> I will ask the art team to look for fonts.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> any other business?
<Salane> the next meeting I will present a wiki page
<sabdfl> thank you!
<Salane> with exmaples.
<Salane> Icons!
<Salane> I am pumped about making II look as good as possible
<Salane> II=Intrepid Ibex
<sabdfl> ok, can we build on the existing Human icon theme?
<Salane> Sure- perhaps keep basically the same icons, but maybe change to a more nuetral color?
<sabdfl> rather than the orange?
<Salane> I also think they could use less gloss...
<Salane> perhaps a lighter orange/brown
<sabdfl> we want them to be distinctive, for screenshots
<Salane> Its important we retain the orange/brown I think - for our identity.
<Salane> Yes
<sabdfl> agreed
<Salane> not a copy
<sabdfl> am very happy to look at concepts that you do
<sabdfl> please use the folder icon as the test case
<sabdfl> i am going to push that we reduce the total number of icons we manage
<Salane> Ok- I am not the best at icon design, but I will work hard with others to improve Human
<sabdfl> hopefully, upstream will be open to this idea too
<sabdfl> fewer, better icons == win!
<Salane> What exactly is upstream? Debian I assume?
<sabdfl> on icons, probably Gnome
<Salane> Oh ok
<sabdfl> although we are responsible for Human
<sabdfl> Gnome won't care about that
<Salane> Well I think I will also talk to art about this one, get people involved, and create several "styles" for proposal using the folder icon as an example
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> looking forward to that!
<Salane> Post them on a wiki of course
<Salane> Good
<sabdfl> please also talk with kwii
<Salane> Kwii? Do you have an email?
<sabdfl> ken.wimer@canonical.com as a starting point
<Salane> Thanks
<Salane> Oh we have spoken
<Salane> ken and I
<sabdfl> try kwwii@canonical.com
<Salane> Great
<sabdfl> ok, thanks all
<Salane> As for everything else, it wont take much more to really make this pop
<Salane> with regards to the theme
<Salane> Ken has a palette that we are too follow I assume, so again I think the art team should work together to lay out proposals.
<sabdfl> i think the palette is up for discussion
<Salane> really? But still keeping with the orange/brown I assume?
<sabdfl> staying distinctive, but aiming for... beautiful
<Salane> Ok- I was thinking we should have one light whitish/brown theme and one dark brown included in 8.10 -
<Salane> Would that be a good idea? The art team had discussed this and liked it.
<sabdfl> i can't comment without seeing a mockup
<Salane> Ok.
<Salane> What is your opinion on making the theme have more gradients and rounded edges?
<Salane> Not too round, but just a little bit more streamlined...
<sabdfl> same - need to see it
<Salane> Ok. So I believe this will to the art team and Ken - wiki page created for main ideas/guidelines, then proposed here?
<sabdfl> can we ask you to come back with mockups of theme and icons, and consult with kwwii so we don't have a collision?
<sabdfl> yes please
<Salane> Haha yes.
<Salane> I am excited!
<sabdfl> me too - looking forward to seeing it
<Salane> All of my questions have been answered. I look forward to it as well.
<Salane> would you like my email in case you need to contact me?
<sabdfl> i see it here :-
<sabdfl> )
<Salane> Ok good.
<mako> i'm going to want to defer to the art team and those who have more of an eye for this
<mako> but i appreciate the work and that it's being done
<Salane> mako: agreed
<Salane> Everything will involve the art team: its the spirit of FOSS!
<sabdfl> alright
<Salane> I will just spearhead a more organized process for getting things done per sabdfl's suggestions.
<sabdfl> this is challenging stuff, Salane, we have had setbacks before
<Salane> I understand.
<sabdfl> but it's worth diving in to see what we can achieve
 * mako nods
<sabdfl> ok, thanks all!
<sabdfl> are we wrapped?
<Salane> I am good.
<sabdfl> night, then. thanks Technoviking, mako, sbc, Salane
<Technoviking> night
<Salane> night
<mako> great, thanks everhone
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-02
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jul 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting
<ApOgEE-> hi elkbuntu
<ApOgEE-> hi persia
<ApOgEE-> hi all
<Hobbsee> ApOgEE-: hi, but could you use #ubuntu-offtopic for general chatting?  This channel is only to be used for meetings.  Thanks!
<ApOgEE-> Hobbsee, ok
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting
<paddax> hi
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting
<pedro_> hello!
<heno> hey!
<davmor2> Yay with have Ubottu :)
 * cgregan waves
<bdmurray> hi
<davmor2> Hello everybody :)
 * ogasawara waves
<sbeattie> Hello!
<heno> sbeattie, did you get some sleep? :)
<heno> late night testing I saw
<davmor2> only in between testing :)
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sbeattie> Yeah, I got a little, helping to get the kids ready this morning hurt a litle.
<heno> \o/
<pedro_> yay for the bot
<heno> [TOPIC]: Outstanding items from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic: : Outstanding items from last meeting
<davmor2> should it be S instead of s?
<davmor2> no
<heno> I believe cgregan was to look at LP team structures for qa
<cgregan> Yes
<heno> but in the meantime LaserJock has set up a team :)
<cgregan> hehe
<cgregan> I can review
<cgregan> What is the URL?
<heno> cgregan: perhaps you can just look at what was set up?
<heno> right
<pedro_> http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa <-
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa <-
<LaserJock> yeah, I hadn't seen the last meeting minutes
<cgregan> I'll take a look...thanks.
<heno> ok no worries
<LaserJock> but I perhaps have a bit different view of the team
<LaserJock> I was hoping to sort of hammer that out today
<heno> right, let's cover that on point 3
<ara> hello all
<ara> sorry for being late
<heno> [TOPIC]: Posting on the QA blog - please sign it with your real name so readers can see where it's actually coming from
<MootBot> New Topic: : Posting on the QA blog - please sign it with your real name so readers can see where it's actually coming from
<heno> hey ara
<heno> That topic is just a request really
<sbeattie> It seems to use your id rather than your name, though, no?
<heno> I know stgraber, nand and sbeattie post there fairly regularly
<LaserJock> yeah, I noticed that because Planet Ubuntu just has "QA Blog" the posts seem kind of sterile
<heno> yeah, just putting your name at the bottom would be good
<sbeattie> LaserJock: actually, I peeked, it also has the authors id as well.
<LaserJock> sbeattie: on the Planet Ubuntu feed?
<LaserJock> or on the QA Blog feed?
<sbeattie> LaserJock: at least when reading Planet Ubuntu via the google feed reader
<LaserJock> I noticed when I actually went to the blog the UID is there
<LaserJock> hmm, I didn't notice it, but I could have overlooked it
<heno> I've never noticed it, but ok
<LaserJock> in any case, I think it's nice for team blogs to "sign" the posts in the text
<heno> it seems good practice
<sbeattie> No argument there, making it more prominent would be good.
<nand> ok, I'll do that from now on
<LaserJock> I think it's important for people to see that QA is real people ;-)
<LaserJock> not the mythical bots as some propose
<heno> thanks
<heno> [TOPIC]: Plans for ubuntu-qa Launchpad team and community QA efforts. (LaserJock)
<MootBot> New Topic: : Plans for ubuntu-qa Launchpad team and community QA efforts. (LaserJock)
<heno> we await a presentation :)
<LaserJock> heh
<davmor2> cool t'interweb presentations :D
<LaserJock> ok, well I've sort of come to the QA arena in a round about direction
<LaserJock> from MOTU/Edubuntu to MOTU SRU to "hmm, this QA stuff is pretty cool"
<LaserJock> one of the things that's historically been difficult is sort of the Canonical/Community and related Main/Universe divide
<LaserJock> so something I'm interested is in building the community side
<LaserJock> and to sort of make the Main/Universe separation disappear
<heno> perhaps it's more of a dev/non-dev divide than Canonical/community because we are quite active in the non-dev community
<LaserJock> well, somewhat
<heno> we should aim to close that too though
<LaserJock> but for instance on your Key people page only 2 out of 12 people *don't" work for Canonical
<LaserJock> historically the community hasn't really stepped up all that well when it comes to QA
<heno> several of the QA initiatives have started in the forums, including iso testing and brainstorm
<LaserJock> yes
<davmor2> LaserJock: ahem ;)
<LaserJock> the community shortage is particularly missing on the dev side
<LaserJock> MOTU tend to work within themselves
<heno> you mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KeyPositions ?
<LaserJock> we have http://qa.ubuntuwire.com where we've developed several good pages
<LaserJock> heno: yes indeed
<heno> 4 of 12, but the point is still valid
<LaserJock> you sure? maybe some people have left, I just checked for @canonical on people's LP page
<LaserJock> in any case
<LaserJock> with a community as large as we have 4 just isn't really "stepping up" IMO
<heno> yes, we'd like to work more with community developers
<heno> agreed
<LaserJock> so I'm interested in 1) bringing in QA-minded community people (primarily developer-minded personally)
<LaserJock> 2) common infrastructure, forums, and namespace for Ubuntu QA efforts
<LaserJock> so my proposal is to have the Ubuntu QA team represent not any person/team who do QA activities
<heno> #1 I think we're all agreed on. #2 I agree with, but the devil is always in the implementation details
<LaserJock> because that is really just about every person in the community, and is not really particulary useful
<LaserJock> rather I'd like the Ubuntu QA to represent people who are interested in developing QA tools, procedures, and communities
<davmor2> LaserJock: 1/ If you bring in dev-minded people the danger is that bugs are missed because they know what they are doing.  less dev-minded people are more likely to stumble
<cgregan> As a non-dev tester...I agree
<LaserJock> davmor2: well, I'm really not concerned with testing
<LaserJock> I can let people who are worry about that
<heno> LaserJock: but an 'Ubuntu QA' team would be
<LaserJock> heno: no
<LaserJock> they would really on be interested in developing communities of testers
<heno> then what would it represent?
<LaserJock> so currently we have the bugsquad to do bug triage
<heno> leading by example often works best though
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> so we need testing minded people in the team for sure
<LaserJock> it's just not my particular forte, is what I'm saying
<LaserJock> going back to the bugsquad
<LaserJock> we already have a team for that
<LaserJock> what we need is people who build the tools and procedures for triage
<LaserJock> and to make sure the community is healthy
<LaserJock> QAing the QA, so-to-speak
<ara> toolsmiths, you mean
<LaserJock> some of that, but more
<cgregan> ï»¿LaserJock: Would bugsquad not be a sub-team of the greater Ubuntu-QA?
<LaserJock> cgregan: not in my scheme, no
<cgregan> We may want to consider another name for this team then....to avoid confusion.
<LaserJock> the only sub-teams I see for Ubuntu QA right now are Canonical QA and ubuntu-qa-website-devel
<heno> I'm not sure this reduces confusion, esp. if you call it the ubuntu-qa team in LP
<LaserJock> there should be no confusion
<LaserJock> actual QA work is being done by almost every person in the Ubuntu community
<LaserJock> it's like having an Ubuntu Contributor team
<LaserJock> well, yes, you can do that, but what's the point
<cgregan> This is true but not in an organized/guided manner
<heno> but there will be. we already have an active team called Ubuntu QA, and you are proposing that some parts of that will not be included
<LaserJock> heno: I've not seen that team
<heno> LaserJock: you are at out meeting :)
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> but who's here?
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure every person active in this meeting would be in my Ubuntu QA team
<heno> right, so an LP team would help show that
<LaserJock> I'm just saying an umbrella QA team is rather useless
<sbeattie> LaserJock: the point trying to be made is that cgregan and davmor2 don't consider themselves devs and would excluded by having ubuntu-qa be dev-oriented.
<LaserJock> sbeattie: it's *not* dev-oriented
<LaserJock> I'd like to see more dev people involved
<LaserJock> so here would be my criteria for memebership:
<LaserJock> 1) are you currently doing QA activity, triage, testing, etc. ?
<LaserJock> 2) do you have a plan for developing Ubuntu QA efforts more?
<LaserJock> that's mostly it
<heno> joined with And or Or ?
<LaserJock> AND
<cgregan> That all sounds ok.
<davmor2> 1/ Am I missing the point here did you not say that triaging (ie bug squad) wouldn't be part of the QA team?
<LaserJock> bug squad isn't
<heno> so that excludes people doing grass roots QA
<LaserJock> heno: perhaps so, yes
<LaserJock> but that can be fixed
<heno> I'm happy for such a team to be set up, but not to call it ubuntu-qa
<heno> that needs to be more inclusive
<LaserJock> davmor2: it would be people who are interested in developing tools, polcies for bug squad and develop the community. People like Pedro and Brian Murray
<LaserJock> heno: why?
<LaserJock> it has a low barrier to entry
<davmor2> LaserJock: heno: I think that would be more of a QA-Leadership team
<LaserJock> davmor2: there is definately that aspect
<heno> a) because our current (non-LP) team already works that way and b) it's important for our community building
<ara> QA is much more than dev. Not only dev-testers can leader a QA team
<LaserJock> heno: a) there really isn't a team, you just call it that b) you don't have a community right now and just included everybody doesn't help
<cgregan> I think there should be no barrier to entry. Simply you want to do all those things mentioned above, but may or may not have any experience. A gateway team as it were.
<heno> LaserJock: depends how you define low - some people are happy to help test but not reshape our tools or procedures
<LaserJock> heno: fine, I'm not stopping them!
<cgregan> Access to tools and cases, wikis, etc.
<LaserJock> there's just a big difference between doing QA and being in a QA team, IMO
<heno> LaserJock: neither of those statements are fair or accurate
<heno> translators are on translation teams
<LaserJock> sure, but that's different
<LaserJock> take a factory
<LaserJock> *every* person is doing QA when they do their job well, etc.
<cgregan> ï»¿LaserJock: I see your point of view. But I think this is the difference we want to reduce or remove.
<LaserJock> but the QA team makes sure that 1) the right policies and tools are in place and 2) the rules are being followed
<cgregan> So an advisory board
<LaserJock> we already have a lot people doing QA activities, every developer, tester, triager, etc.
<heno> in the software industry QA teams to testing and triage too
<davmor2> LaserJock: But then what team do they belong to.  As I see it the people with the most access to the community and canonical for shaping, tools etc are people employed by Canonical.  So the team your suggesting automatically rules out the community because everything they would want to do would need to be run by the canonical employees
<LaserJock> heno: yes, I agree
<LaserJock> davmor2: that's absolutely not true
<LaserJock> davmor2: the community can do virtually everything a Canonical employee can
<LaserJock> and they *should* be able to do the rest and most of that is being worked on
<LaserJock> heno: but this is a community, not the software industry
<davmor2> LaserJock: I don't mean like that I mean as a voice ie Jono speaks and the world listens I speak and the people who know me listen
<LaserJock> heno: it's a tad different
<LaserJock> heno: i.e. we have lots of people to do the "grunt" work, if we can organize them and give them the tools
<heno> LaserJock: so what is your reference point?
<LaserJock> for instance, sbeattie shouldn't be actually doing SRU verification
<cgregan> LaserJock: We are getting close. I deal with companies all day that want testing output and policies that match the "industry" so I have to guide my testers to do things that way.
<LaserJock> he should be building the SRU tracking tools (which he is, and that's awesome) and the community to test
<LaserJock> cgregan: well, that is regressive, IMO, but I understand your constraints
<heno> LaserJock: but he has to step in ad do it if no one else does, and he has to do it now to learn how
<cgregan> I agree but a compromise is likely here
<LaserJock> heno: agreed, totally
 * davmor2 head explodes
<LaserJock> heno: but the focus should be on building the community, tools, and procedures
<LaserJock> my problem with an umbrella team is it is going to be almost usless in this case
<heno> LaserJock: why exactly are you opposed to picking a different name for the qa-tools-and-procedures team?
<LaserJock> we have diverse groups of people, and a lot of them
<LaserJock> heno: because I don't see the point of an umbrella Ubuntu QA team
<heno> when it clearly conflicts with an existing team
<LaserJock> there is no existing team
<heno> but others do
<davmor2> LaserJock: Am I missing the point...  That's what this team is doing the difference is at the moment we are also the community so we build tools to use and use them.....
<heno> repeating that doesn't make it true
<LaserJock> the "team" is Canonical QA and loosly calling any team doing QA work a part of "Ubuntu QA"
<heno> not true
<LaserJock> but it is not organized and most of it's members don't even know the team exists
<LaserJock> so I'd hardly call it a team in reality
<LaserJock> I'd like to put some meat to it
<heno> it's not well enough advertised, that's true
<LaserJock> ok, so who is in this team?
<heno> and more meat would be good too, but we cant start by excluding current members
<davmor2> me
<cgregan> ï»¿LaserJock: Perhaps the solution is as heno hints...more advertising of existing teams. Perhaps by this new team. Whatever it is to be called.
<LaserJock> heno: excluding who?
<LaserJock> a more defined team gives you the chance to use bzr branch hosting
<LaserJock> allows you to possibly use PPAs
<LaserJock> it allows you to bring people together
<LaserJock> without bothering people who wouldn't care
<heno> LaserJock: exclude people who just want to help with QA work
<davmor2> LaserJock: That would probably also be me.  Being that I have no to little technical knowledge or development skills but who is also called on by lots of team leads to test stuff for them.
<LaserJock> heno: but it doesn't exclude them from doing the work
<heno> sure, there are technical benefits to an LP team, I don't oppose that
<LaserJock> this is very similar to ubuntu-dev
<bdmurray> davmor2: I believe you are writing documentation for testing which is a valuable contribution to a team like this
<LaserJock> we have ubuntu-dev as a smaller group of people who focuse on developing packages
<LaserJock> they write policies, do testing, etc.
<heno> bdmurray: right but he stated out helping with testing, as did stgraber
<LaserJock> but that doesn't exclude people from doing development work
<LaserJock> on the contrary it gives people something to work towards, and it gives tremendous support to the vast community of people contributing to development
<heno> ok, I don't think we are going to reach consensus on this today and we have another topic
<LaserJock> k
<bdmurray> Where should we continue the discussion then?
<heno> LaserJock: do want to write up your proposal on a wiki page perhaps?
<LaserJock> well, I try to work on more of a written proposal/description of what I'm thinking
<LaserJock> yeah
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> [TOPIC]: 8.04.1 ISO testing status
<MootBot> New Topic: : 8.04.1 ISO testing status
<heno> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all has the current status
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all has the current status
<sbeattie> heno: you said you were going to tackle more difficult cases, did you try xubuntu/encrypted LVM ?
<heno> the DVDs still need some work, Edubuntu and Xubuntu
<heno> sbeattie: I have yes
<ara> i have been some testing on ubuntustudio against virtualbox. i would like to test it again because it seems to consume much memory
<heno> more obscure cases at least
<ara> how much memory should I allocate in the vbox for that case?
<heno> ara: during install, or running?
<ara> during the install
<ara> when choosing all the options
<heno> 128 should be enough for a d-i install
<ara> if i choose less options it finishes correctly
<heno> I used 384 though
<heno> ara: does it halt?
<ara> yep
<ara> it halt twice, actually
<ara> it only finished corretly once, when not choosing all of the options
<ara> apart of that, the installation process is text-based; is that normal in ubuntu studio?
<heno> can you restart it when it halts or is it completely dead?
<ara> dead
<heno> apt does consume memory linearly
<heno> so very large upgrades have the same problem
<heno> how much ram did you give it?
<ara> mm, not sure, let me check
<ara> 256MB
<heno> bdmurray: where would one file such a bug - I guess it's ubuntu studio documentation issue?
<ara> i will check again early tomorrow, but it would be nice if you could check that too
<ara> 256MB RAM, choosing all the available packages
<heno> I will, though it's not likely it will be fixed for Hardy.1
<bdmurray> heno: it depends on where the minimum recommended amount is documented
<heno> it may of course be a real d-i bug or something
<heno> anyway, I'll do a bit more testing this evening and would ask others to do the same :)
<heno> ATM it looks fine for release tomorrow
<heno> any other topics?
<heno> ok, thanks everyone!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:04.
<ara> thanks
<ara> bye
<sbeattie> thanks
<pedro_> thanks
<davmor2> ta
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
<cjwatson> good evening folks
 * ogra waves
<asac> second
<asac> hi all
<liw> yo
<calc> hi
<TheMuso> hi
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
<cjwatson> ubottu's clock is slow
<slangasek> morning :)
<bryce> heya all
<cjwatson> right, I have sufficiently little on my list today that I didn't get round to mailing out an agenda; sorry for that - I do have a few items though, then I'll throw it open to the floor
<cjwatson> firstly (and this one is only relevant for Canonical staff) the distro team managers have agreed that distro-team@ would become more useful if each team collected activity reports privately and then included them in its meeting summaries
<cjwatson> there are some disadvantages, mostly that it means we can't follow up to individual activity reports as easily, but on the whole I think I agree it would make the list more bearable to follow
<james_w> hi all
<asac> sounds reasonable. how would we collect them privately? on a wikipage?
<ogra> its not actually high traffic though
<TheMuso> ogra: Agreed.
<cjwatson> so I'd like to ask that you mail me activity summaries at the end of your day on TUESDAY in order that I can collect them and stick them on a wiki page or something, and then they can go into the agenda
<cjwatson> ogra: I'm afraid many people do disagree
<cjwatson> we have getting on for 50 people, and it adds up pretty quickly
<ogra> heh, well, i read ubuntu-users... i might have different views through that :)
<evand> hi
<cjwatson> this also means that at least parts of activity reports that are public can easily be posted on ubuntu-devel, which I think would be fairly useful
<cjwatson> or at least links to them
<asac> how about an activity mailing list where the reply-To is set to distro team?
<bryce> while it causes traffic, it's sort of nice having each person's status report as a separate email, since it makes it easy to pick and choose which reports to read.  With them all concatenated together, I think it would be more work and I'd be less inclined to look at any of them
<liw> asac, that still means people get a lot of mail -- unless most people aren't on the new list, in which case it's fairly pointless, imho
<cjwatson> right now, I know that I simply don't bother reading status reports from other teams, and I'd like to fix that; if I just had to read meeting reports it would be a lot easier
<cjwatson> it's the same amount of text, but less intimidating in one's mailer
<liw> cjwatson, as it happens, I have the opposite feeling: long mails are harder and more intimidating to me
<calc> hmm didn't we used to have a activity mailing list?
 * liw gets antsy if he can't press Delete every five seconds
<slangasek> bryce: well, I take the converse view that, since the name of the sender doesn't tell me if there's interesting activity to read about, it makes my mailbox much larger to have them each as separate mails :)
<calc> then they wanted it moved to distro-team now its too much traffic? ;-)
<ogra> calc, but for the whole company
<slangasek> maybe they should be concatenated into MIME digest form ;)
<cjwatson> I would like us to try this out for a while; if it causes serious problems, we can revert
<calc> ogra: ah ok
<slangasek> then you can delete MIME subparts that you're done with :)
<cjwatson> calc: it became unusable once the company grew beyond about 40 or so
<liw> I'd me more in favor of people writing _shorter_ activity reports :)
<calc> liw: do less work? :)
<ogra> ++
<TheMuso> liw: I don't think thats always possible, due to the nature of what some of us are doing.
<liw> otoh, collected activity reports could be formatted more systematically, which would help
<cjwatson> Not shorter for the sake of it, but concise
<cjwatson> with this system, I will be happy to do some trivial reformatting to bang 'em all into the same style
<cjwatson> secondly: many of the packages in the partner archive (archive.canonical.com) have been constructed by folks without lots of experience in the Ubuntu project, and yet if Ubuntu users enable that archive those packages are presented to them
<cjwatson> I'd like to arrange for a brief retroactive review of those packages for quality, and have agreed with the relevant manager that this is something that would be accepted
<cjwatson> would anyone like to volunteer to help out? the number of packages is not terribly large
<TheMuso> I don't mind helping out.
<cjwatson> I think it should take maybe 15 minutes per source package, tops
<asac> cjwatson: how many packages are there atm?
<cjwatson> $ zcat /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-partner/dists/*/*/source/Sources.gz | grep ^Package | wc -l
<calc> so nothing huge like symphony then? ;-)
<liw> I could do a couple
<cjwatson> 38
<cjwatson> $ zcat /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-partner/dists/*/*/source/Sources.gz | grep ^Package | sort -u | wc -l
<cjwatson> 10
<slangasek> I'd be willing to help
<cjwatson> some of them are large, but I'm not expecting very deep review of the upstream code (we may not have it, in any case)
<TheMuso> I think its a matter of making sure they are packaged correctly for a start.
<cjwatson> yes
<calc> how do we coordinate what has been reviewed by whom?
<cjwatson> this will also help to provide some mentoring for the people doing this work
<cjwatson> I think it's simplest if I just assign them out
<cjwatson> ACTION: cjwatson to assign partner package reviews to volunteers
<cjwatson> so I have Luke, Lars, Steve, Alex?, Chris?
 * calc volunteers to look at them
<cjwatson> should be fine
<cjwatson> thirdly: slangasek, any good or bad news about 8.04.1?
<asac> i didnt opt in explicitly, but feel free to assign reviews to me :)
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<slangasek> 8.04.1 is coming on very well, for all the (typical) last-minute rush of fixes.  We still have a couple of SRUs that are on the CDs right now by virtue of building out of -proposed which have still not made it through the SRU verification process, so those need to be sorted in short order
<slangasek> one of them is a bug asac will be familiar with, bug #219587 in cairo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219587 in cairo "03-turn_on_buggy-repeat_handling.dpatch causes slowdown in Evolution" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219587
<slangasek> that's certainly the riskiest of the SRUs that we have left, but all things considered I think there's insufficient evidence of regressions to block it and force a reroll of all images
<slangasek> so - if anyone has noticed that cairo is behaving funny, speak up now :P
<slangasek> otherwise, ISO testing has been going *very* well
<asac> slangasek: how can we reach a consent here? i think seb is all for that patch. i am not sure.
<slangasek> if anyone has some spare cycles today (or tomorrow for European time), more ISO testing may still be of help; please coordinate with #ubuntu-testing on this to find out where help is needed, so we don't have 5 people all independently downloading the same image for one test
<asac> err, s/all for/all against/
<slangasek> asac: sorry, seb is against the patch?  I haven't seen this said anywhere in the bug log...
<slangasek> in fact, I see comments from him saying that it works fine for him
<evand> wouldn't we want as much coverage over each test as possible?
<asac> slangasek: yeah he wants to drop the patch ;)
<slangasek> evand: when you start starving the rsync server for bandwidth, you have your limit on how much coverage is possible ;)
<slangasek> evand: so definitely coordinate with #u-testing, please
<slangasek> asac: oh, that - yes :)
<evand> ah, fair enough, and will do
<slangasek> asac: well, my understanding is that we have only a single, unreproducible and uninvestigateable report of a regression that was correlated with the cairo update
 * liw notes there's a bunch of ISOs on the tracker that don't yet have complete coverage, and one or two without any coverage
<slangasek> asac: whereas everyone else has been running this update in -proposed for 28 days and there've been no other reports of regression, in spite of my prodding that people should be alert for this
<slangasek> asac: so unless someone speaks up now and says it's broken, I intend to push it
<calc> anyone noticed weird crashing that causes your machine to just turn off?
<calc> i'm hoping my system isn't dying
<TheMuso> calc: What sort of crashing?
<liw> calc, what kind of crashing? an immediate shut-off?
<ogra> blocked fan or something ?
<slangasek> on a related note, we know we have a few high-priority SRUs to push out of the queue right on the heels of 8.04.1.  I'll be unfreezing -proposed shortly, but unfortunately won't have any time to process those SRUs myself until at least tomorrow
<calc> using system just fine then instant power off
<cjwatson> calc: it did rather sound like heat trouble to me, though it's hard to be sure
<ogra> well, just monitor your temperature for a while
<ogra> and you will know
<calc> i wasn't doing anything at the time (at least today) to cause high heat output, unless its a fan issue or something
<liw> calc, that sounds like heat or memory problems to me; you may want to run memtest overnight
<nand> had similar issue with a deficient power supply
<calc> ogra: ok
<slangasek> I've had a system power itself off this week due to the heat... horrible Oregon weather :-)
<calc> its in a laptop ran, memtest for an hour or so and occt on vista for about an hour
<TheMuso> I've bee experiencing weird behiavor lately as well, but no instant power off.
<ogra> yeah power supply could look like that as well
<liw> I've had several cases of memtest only finding problems after 12 hours or so
<calc> but i will have to watch the cpu temp to see what it shows for a while
<calc> liw: ah
<cjwatson> slangasek: I'll get you the bits of the release announcement I'm working on as soon as I can
<slangasek> cjwatson: appreciate it, thanks
<cjwatson> hopefully before I go to bed tonight
<calc> it didn't start happening until June 26 and since it has been about once every 2 days
<cjwatson> actions from last week: most I know are done or as done as they'll get, I think the only one I didn't hear about was bryce's libx11/libxcb action
<calc> cjwatson: the OOo part of that issue was due to a xrandr heap corruption issue and has been fixed in hardy-updates now
<cjwatson> there seems to be some contention at the tail of the bug report
<calc> but there appears to be other issues that are really due to that problem(?)
<bryce> cjwatson: I think we got the xcb stuff sorted out
<bryce> we can't easily just drop xcb since compiz needs it
<slangasek> the two critical manifestations of the xcb thing that I'm aware of were xubuntu login lockups and OOo/amd64, both of which have been sorted by other means
<bryce> however, the xubuntu issue had a workaround identified that solved it
<slangasek> (for hardy)
<cjwatson> mm, the tail of the report suggests that there are still a number of other applications with similar problems; not critical, but I feel bad leaving it that way
<calc> there's supposedly some java issue there too
<cjwatson> there was a suggestion of providing a separate libX11-xcb for compiz to link against
<calc> but i don't know details of it
<bryce> and the OOo issue sounded like a workaround was identified there too, but I hadn't verified it as solved
<calc> bryce: yea it was due to xrandr heap corruption
<slangasek> doesn't compiz use other X-based libs? (== symbol collisions)
<cjwatson> the Java issue is fairly well-known and fixed upstream, but you have to be running a pretty up-to-date JRE (I'm not even sure it's fixed in OpenJDK 6)
<bryce> calc, ok
<cjwatson> mm, fair point - there's already both libX11.so.6 and libX11-xcb.so.1, I'm assuming that libX11 itself has to be built such that it will load libX11-xcb?
<slangasek> looks like libX11-xcb loads libX11
<cjwatson> if there is an environment variable workaround (I know some of these issues can be worked around with LIBXCB_DISABLE_SLOPPY_LOCK=1, but I'm not sure if all of them can) then reminding folks of that would help
<cjwatson> the original bug report looks different from the ones I've seen before, though
<bryce> given that we've been able to workaround the issues discovered so far, I don't think there's a pressing need at this point to ship variant libx11's
<bryce> however if other issues crop up that can be proven to be unfixable any other way, I'd still definitely be open to that route
<slangasek> the xcb-enabled libX11.so.6 doesn't use symbol versions today; trying to clear up symbol collisions between compiz and its libs would require a rebuild of the whole dep chain, /after/ the work to actually add symbol versions, and this whole plan would also need to be passed by upstream to verify that it's even possible to use both X11 libs from the same process
<slangasek> (they might try to overrun each other's state via env vars or something)
<cjwatson> bryce: could you follow up with the people who have reported problems after your wontfix status change, and make sure that we can deal with them?
<bryce> cjwatson: sure, will do
<cjwatson> slangasek: ok, sounds ridiculously infeasible then
<cjwatson> I have nothing else for this meeting; anyone have anything they want to bring up?
<calc> i have a question
<cjwatson> either problems, or particularly good news for a change ;-)
<calc> is there an easy way to branch into a subdir of a bzr repo
<calc> i hear merge-into might be the way
<calc> for OOo i have a top level dir then there is debian and ubuntu dirs under that
<calc> debian's OOo bzr repo has the top level being their debian dir
<bryce> xserver 1.5 + new mesa + new libxrm + new xorg + rebuild of all drivers is coming within a week or so
<cjwatson> calc: firstly, I completely concur with lifeless that you would be best advised to leave it the way it is for the moment
<calc> cjwatson: ok, status quo is that i have merge each time, just want to make sure i was clear about that before :)
<calc> i pull a diff between old and new versions of debian repo and then merge the results by hand into our repo
<cjwatson> um
<cjwatson> does bzr merge not work for some reason? why not?
<calc> well that is my question, can i use bzr merge when the trees aren't the same
<cjwatson> can you give a pointer to the two trees so I can have a quick look?
<slangasek> well, you can use it unless it tells you "no common ancestor"
<ogra> if the ancestor is the same you can
<calc> top level of ubuntu's tree is the package dir (eg ooo-3.0) on debian it is (ooo-3.0/debian)
<slangasek> so you get feedback pretty quick if you try :)
<calc> yea
<james_w> calc: sorry I hadn't replied
<slangasek> you just may have to fix a lot up the first time you run it, if you've been merging by hand 'til now
<calc> http://bzr.debian.org/pkg-openoffice/packages/openofficeorg/2.4.1/unstable/
<cjwatson> oh, I see, you've done *that*
<slangasek> oh, eep
<calc> https://code.launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/openoffice/2.4.1-hardy
<calc> james_w: np
<cjwatson> personally, were I in that situation, I would be inclined to reconstruct the branch revision by revision (automatically) such that ubuntu/ was under debian/ubuntu/ instead
<calc> slangasek: i was planning on starting over for 3.0-intrepid branch
<cjwatson> but I appreciate you may not want to do that
<calc> slangasek: and doing the merge once after getting it branched properly
<slangasek> calc: "starting over" -- this is not the DVCS future *I* was promised :)
<calc> cjwatson: ah stick the ubuntu dir under debian dir?
<cjwatson> calc: in giving advice here, I'm torn between the fact that your current layout is actually closer to where we want to end up, and the practicalities of merging usefully from Debian right now
<calc> well if i did that and preserved history (the nice way) then i would have to change code or the old versions wouldn't actually work
<calc> since the dir will have moved
<cjwatson> yes, that's true, and that would be pretty bad I agree
<calc> there is this thing that sounds like it might work called merge-into but it seems still beta'ish
<cjwatson> bzr join/split and merge-into are the only things I'm aware of that allow you to treat directories within branches as if they were branches themselves
<slangasek> evand: is bug #245010 a regression vs. 8.04?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245010 in migration-assistant "Migration Assistant is not triggered during live Cd install with XP Home" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245010
<james_w> I haven't looked in detail yet, but it does sound like what "merge-into" is meant to do, but that does have some problems.
<cjwatson> and, afaik, both of those are fairly beta
<calc> james_w: ah ok
<calc> i may just do the ugly debian/ubuntu subdir for now then it would probably be safer
<james_w> calc: the main problem I've seen is that it get's confused when files are added in the future. which I expect is reasonably common.
<calc> s/then/since/
<calc> james_w: yea
<slangasek> cjwatson: I've previously been assured that bzr merge/join is safe for use
<evand> slangasek: No, it's a usability problem.  He chose to format the entire disk, which means migration-assistant cannot do anything so ubiquity doesn't show the m-a page.
<cjwatson> calc: you might actually be better off leaving it alone right now, and talking with John Meinel about merge-into
<slangasek> and the grub packaging branch is built with merge/join :)
<james_w> calc: I'm grabbing the branches now, I'll put together an email tomorrow for you if that's ok?
<calc> also since debian branches off when they make a new release how do i make mine properly follow that?
<slangasek> evand: ok, thanks for confirming
<cjwatson> I certainly wouldn't do anything in this case without having a Bazaar developer advise you (james_w would count of course)
<calc> cjwatson: ok
<calc> james_w: ok that will be great :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: oh, cool - though the repo format required for merge/join is as I remember still not the default
<slangasek> oh, it may still not be default
<cjwatson> calc: if Debian creates a branch based on the previous one, then you can simply merge that branch
<slangasek> I'm not sure
<slangasek> but I was told to use it, and it works happi :)
<calc> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> (once you get merging sorted, period)
<cjwatson> calc: since that new branch will include all the relevant history
<calc> cjwatson: oh once you have merged up to the old branch you just specify the url to the new branch to merge it?
<cjwatson> yes
<calc> ah cool :)
<cjwatson> and you can use --remember if you want to make it the new default merge location
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> james_w: I've filed an RT for your importer machine, BTW, and will be chasing it with IS probably tomorrow to get a timeline
 * liw wants a --remember option for his home keys
<TheMuso> heh
<cjwatson> james_w: RT #31152
<james_w> cjwatson: yes, I saw, thanks.
<bryce> how do you tell bzr your lp username differs from your login name?
<cjwatson> oh yes, I did remember to CC you
<cjwatson> bryce: bzr launchpad-login
<ogra> and in the config file
<cjwatson> bryce: also, setting it in ~/.ssh/config is a good idea
<cjwatson> Host bazaar.launchpad.net
<cjwatson>         User kamion
<cjwatson>         ControlPath none
<cjwatson> in my case
<cjwatson> (err, you can possibly ignore the ControlPath none bit)
<ogra> .bazaar/bazaar.conf knows launchpad_username as well
<ogra> tats where i set it
<bryce> ahh thanks, looks like putting into ~/.ssh/config did the trick
<cjwatson> ogra: that's what bzr launchpad-login reads/writes
<ogra> ah, i wasnt aware :)
<ogra> i set it manually a while ago
<cjwatson> ok. any other business?
<bryce> I mentioned the pending xserver merge.  We know this breaks compiz on -intel and brings some other problems, which we'll be working on in the coming weeks.
<cjwatson> sorry, I missed that earlier
<cjwatson> what shiny things do we get with 1.5?
<bryce> after the base merge is in, we'll also be switching on input-hotplug
<cjwatson> and anything that developers should watch out for?
<bryce> for new things, this is mostly a bug fix; most of the sexy changes got put off
<ogra> bah
<bryce> the major change will be switching to pciaccess, which *hopefully* should be an invisible change, but probably won't
<cjwatson> might be worth warning the QA team of likely symptoms
<ogra> does that mean we wont have such silly situations like the last week anymore  with shuffling pci ids etc ?
<bryce> watch out for the usual stuff... performance degradation, failure to start X, input device oddities, etc.
<slangasek> ogra: pciaccess is just a different layer for interfacing with PCI, it AFAIK doesn't change the fact that drivers still need to declare the PCI IDs they support...
<bryce> ogra: it'll be a different procedure, but I don't expect it will necessarily prevent such situations
<ogra> that would be awesome
<bryce> ogra: for the major drivers I don't think there'll be issues, but with drivers that don't get a lot of developer attention upstream, we may see regressions there
<ogra> we all lost a lot of time for such a trivial change
<bryce> ogra: agreed
<calc> so watch out for bugs in SiS ;-)
<cjwatson> ... so, if you're running something other than intel,ati,nv, please test intrepid ...
<slangasek> bryce: is matrox ported yet? I need to re-test on my alpha ;)
<bryce> ACTION:  bryce to let cr3 know to test many different drivers after the pciaccess change goes through
<bryce> slangasek: knock yourself out ;-)
<cjwatson> slangasek: using the well-known Ubuntu alpha port
<ogra> heh
<slangasek> cjwatson: this week I used an alpha as a door stop for the first time
<slangasek> sad day
<asac> lol
<slangasek> (also, a hot and windy day)
<ogra> if yu want to get rid of one, i have plenty of space :)
<bryce> cjwatson: nothing else from me on the X front.  Just want folks not be surprised that there'll be a sudden change in X
<cjwatson> OK, thanks for the update
<cjwatson> other than that, we're at the one-hour mark, so let's adjourn
<bryce> thanks
 * liw sees "DEC AlphaPC 164 500 MHz 1 MB cache 2*32/33 2*64/33 PCI 2*ISA 8*SIMM 59.06 e" on the web pages for his favorite computer store...
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-03
<slangasek> ogra: um, not worth the shipping... :)
<liw> gracias and good night
<slangasek> thanks, all
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<TheMuso> thanks
<ogra> heh, probably, but it woul sit next to an indigo2 in my little muzeum
<evand> thanks
<ogra> thanks
<calc> goodnight
<james_w> night all
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 00:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Maryland LoCo IRC | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
 * mvo looks around
<pitti> hi
<seb128> hey pitti
 * tedg says morning everyone
<tedg> We should have the entire meeting in the third person :)
<mvo> hey pitti, seb128, tedg
<pedro_> hi hi
<MacSlow> greetings
<MacSlow> yo pitti, seb128, tedg, mvo, pedro_
<mvo> hey MacSlow!
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<Keybuk> riiight
<Keybuk> tedg: activity report? :)
<tedg> Keybuk: Yes, sorry.  I upgraded to Intrepid... so I was fighting X until late. :(  I'm doing it right now.
<tedg> Keybuk: I would like to add "IM Future" to the agenda.
<Keybuk> :-)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-07-03
<Keybuk> ^ agenda with everything but tedg ;)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: you had an action to update clutter, and an agenda item saying you weren't able to do it?
<Keybuk> are they in the sponsor queue now?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, no I still have to work on that :/
<Keybuk> ok, you should obviously confirm that with Mark
<Keybuk> if you don't need it, Neil can always do it ;)
<Keybuk> seele: did you get any further with Jono?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, but considering I've to present something regarding the login-experience by next week... I'm hm... well... not sure what to give higher priority
<seele> Keybuk: nope, i did ping him again last week too
<MacSlow> Keybuk, ok
<Keybuk> MacSlow: whatever Mark wants you to do is your priority
<MacSlow> Keybuk, Ok I'll check with Mark
<Keybuk> MacSlow: and likewise, merges are over now - so we'll drop that final action point
<pitti> hm, we shouldn't merge it any more? weird
<MacSlow> Keybuk, well goffice and gnumeric are done by now
<Keybuk> pitti: Debian Import Freeze
<Keybuk> MacSlow: oh, great! I didn't see that in -changes
<Keybuk> but now that I learn how to type "office", I can see it
<pitti> Keybuk: true, but that's meant as "you have to ask now", not "it's impossible now"?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, maybe the stuff mvo sponsored last night didn't show up there yet
<seb128> pitti: what do you have to ask now?
<pitti> seb128: initial merges
<seb128> ask to do what I mean
<MacSlow> mvo, is there any latency for stuff to show up once you uploaded it? Now sure how this -changes stuff is generated
<MacSlow> s/Now/Not
<Keybuk> MacSlow: it's there, I'm just unable to spell
<Keybuk> next topic
<MacSlow> :)
<Keybuk> Activity Reports
<mvo> MacSlow: should be here now
<Keybuk> (the sending of)
<Keybuk> the distro team is ever growing as a team now
<MacSlow> mvo, Keybuk just said he misspelled it... probably while searching for the entries :)
<mvo> ok
<Keybuk> and our internal list is full of the reports, all on different days, etc.
<Keybuk> so a decision has been made that distro-team is no longer the appropriate place to send your reports
<Keybuk> in future, simply send your reports to your line manager (me!)
<pitti> oh, hm
<MacSlow> ok
<Keybuk> if there's non-confidential bits, you can also send them to ubuntu-desktop where I'm sure the community would be delighted to read them
<Keybuk> (or edit out the confidential bits and send them)
<seb128> I don't think we should abuse the community list for that
<Keybuk> I'll continue to include them in the report from this meeting
<pitti> Keybuk: well, for -desktop, the weekly meeting report already goes there, and includes the reports, right?
<pitti> so that would be redundant
<Keybuk> pitti: right
<seb128> will you continue in copying those in the meeting minutes?
<Keybuk> seb128: I will
<Keybuk> does anybody particularly want their reports to be read before the meeting?
<Keybuk> or would everyone be happy with them being read by others as part of the meeting report afterwards?
<pitti> occasinoally it is useful to discuss agenda items on the ML before the meeting
<Keybuk> it is, but maybe those should be public mailing list threads anyway? :)
<pitti> as for the actual reports, inclusion in meeting report sounds good to me
<MacSlow> right... e.g. the libpam issue I have is such a thing I guess?
<pitti> Keybuk: just what I wanted to say :)
<seb128> I like to be able to comment on some points listed during the meeting
<seb128> but having those in the meeting agenda is good enough
<MacSlow> pitti, would the libpam issue be a topic to be discussed on the ml before the meeting?
<Keybuk> if everyone's happy, let's agree to only send the reports to me - and I'll include them in the meeting report, and make sure we have time at the end of the meeting to discuss any points
<seb128> works for me
<MacSlow> pitti, I only had a very brief discussion with ogra and slangasek on IRC earlier today
<pitti> MacSlow: it's pretty independent, I'd say; it's not specific to the desktop team, and should just be discussed on ubuntu-devel@
<Keybuk> if you have particular items you want discussed first, you should use the ubuntu-desktop or ubuntu-devel mailing lists as they're intended and discuss it there
<MacSlow> pitti, ok
 * mvo nods
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> next week's meeting
<Keybuk> I'll be at GUADEC, as will seb128, pedro_, mvo and MacSlow
<Keybuk> pitti: will you lead the meeting for the others?
<pitti> sure, I can do that, if there's anyone left to meet ;)
<pitti> we'll see each other on Sunday anyway, too
<Keybuk> do the others feel like they want a meeting?
<pitti> let's have the meeting formally, and just cut it after 10 minutes if there's nothing to discuss, shall we?
<Keybuk> ok
<MacSlow> yup
<Keybuk> EVERYONE, cc your activity report to pitti so he can put together the meeting report
<Keybuk> pitti: at the very least, send out one with the reports in it
<pitti> noted
<Keybuk> obviously there will be no desktop team meeting the week after
<Keybuk> since we'll all be in sunny london
<pitti> \o/
<MacSlow> sunny would be awesome :)
<pitti> you mean, s/no/the entire week/ :)
<Keybuk> well, yes
<Keybuk> no online team meeting ;)
<Keybuk> on GUADEC, does everybody going know where they're going, where the hotel is, who they're rooming with, etc.?
<MacSlow> yes
<pedro_> yup
<mvo> yes
<seb128> sure ;-)
<seb128> do we have any agenda about things we should discuss at GUADEC etc?
<Keybuk> seb128, mvo, MacSlow: you all fly in on the monday?
<MacSlow> late sunday night
<MacSlow> yeah... early monday :) sorry
<Keybuk> MacSlow: oh, yes, very late
<mvo> yep
<Keybuk> MacSlow: same flight as mvo
<MacSlow> travel begins for me sunday anyway
<MacSlow> Keybuk, indeed
<Keybuk> MacSlow: make sure you chat to Neil (who you're rooming with) so he knows what time you'll crawl in ;P
<seb128> Keybuk: I fly on monday morning, the option on sunday really sucked
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I thought I only share room with Neil at the sprint... not at GUADEC
<Keybuk> MacSlow: did you read the spreadsheet I sent out?
<pedro_> I'm arriving Sunday late at night and starting to travel the Saturday evening eek
<mvo> Keybuk: I will try to not wake you up, but it will be late, you may want to use ear-plugs :)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, no wait... at the sprint it's Ted
<MacSlow> Keybuk, yes... I remember now the spreadsheet supersedes the wiki-page
<Keybuk> apologies for the confusion with it all
<Keybuk> the hotel wasn't happy booking people in at 4am
<Keybuk> so mvo and MacSlow had to share with someone already there
<Keybuk> and Eyas attempted to optimise the rooms a little bit too keenly
<MacSlow> Keybuk, np
<Keybuk> so I flattened it out again best I could
<Keybuk> I think, in practice, it was just neil and mirco that got swapped into a room together since Neil arrives on the same flight as me
<Keybuk> anyway
<Keybuk> agenda for GUADEC
<Keybuk> bzr bzr bzr bzr bzr bzr bzr bzr
<seb128> fight fight fight?
<MacSlow> ?
<MacSlow> ? ? ? ? :)
<Keybuk> the Bazaar folks are sending a veritable army to persuade GNOME that git is a piece of crap
<seb128> that's going to require a lot of beers ;-)
<mvo> bzr++
<MacSlow> faith-wars ahead ;)
<Keybuk> hiring is another big one
<MacSlow> the Xorg-crowd will try to counter that I could imagine
<Keybuk> we're hiring:
<Keybuk>  * Desktop Team Manager
<Keybuk>  * Ubuntu GNOME Maintainer
<Keybuk>  * about 3 developers to work on Ubuntu Online Desktop
<Keybuk>  * some developers (probably about the same number) to work on the Ubuntu Desktop Experience
<mvo> incidenty I draftet a little "git-for-bzr-users" the other night about my painful learning of the git basics
<Keybuk> so we should tell people how great it is to work for Canonical :)
<tedg> So a religious fight over version control and hiring bonuses ;)
<Keybuk> oh, yes, hiring bonuses!
<Keybuk> remember, if you recommend someone who gets a job, you get $$ :p
<MacSlow> hint: keep me out of any discussion regarding packaging ;)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: 5-6 of the positions do not involve significant amounts of packaging
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I know... it was meant as a joke :)
<Keybuk> in fact, some of those may end up being your team mates
<tedg> We should start a pyramid scheme, if you recommend someone who gets a job who then recommends someone who gets a job you get a bonus ;)
<seb128> "  * some developers (probably about the same number) to work on the Ubuntu Desktop Experience"
<Keybuk> seb128: intended paste?
<seb128> is that upstream work? rather bling or all sort of desktop work?
<seb128> Keybuk: yes ;-)
<Keybuk> very bling upstream work
<seb128> ok
<Keybuk> hopefully you all know now that I am stepping down as the head of the Desktop Team
<Keybuk> and that we'll be hiring a new manager, who will be supported by a Technical Lead
<Keybuk> (the platform team will undergo a similar change)
<Keybuk> the desktop team will continue to concentrate on maintenance of the two desktop edition
<Keybuk> development of software to deal with the common experiences, and stuff unique to ubuntu like jockey, update manager, etc.
<Keybuk> in fact, there will be a little internal shuffling in the distro so that other desktop-related bits will fall into the desktop team
<Keybuk> as part of this, the "new experience" work will be separated out into a new team
<Keybuk> this team will be doing lots of very cool development work, looking at new and blingful ways to improve the desktop
<Keybuk> and this time will be very much an upstream team
<Keybuk> a new manager will be hired for this team, provisionally called the "desktop experience team"
<Keybuk> and ted and mirco will transfer over to that team
<Keybuk> in the meantime, since Mark is keen to get started, they'll continue to report to me but Mark will manage their day-to-day workloads
<ogra> experience ....
<ogra> :)
<Keybuk> I know that Mirco is greatly looking forwards to not doing any more merges :)
<MacSlow> YES!
<mvo> heh :)
<MacSlow> GL all the way!
<ogra> MacSlow, congrats to getting that ugly goffice/gnimric stuff in shape btw :)
<ogra> *gnumeric
<MacSlow> ogra, much of the nasty bits mvo has to get the credit for!
<ogra> well, but you have seen the guts and it wasnt an easy one :)
<seb128> next he's going to update pam apparently ;-)
<ogra> yeah, i heard that one
<ogra> fine if he takes over maintenance for it :P
<mvo> I kept wondering during the merge if it shouldn't be xubuntu people doing it given that the multibuild was added specifically for them
<ogra> yeah
<MacSlow> ogra, at least I now can appreciate the work done by mvo, seb128, pitti & Co even more... merges can be bloody gruesome :)
<Keybuk> mvo: because making cody-somerville cry is such fun? :)
<mvo> seb128: *cough*
 * ogra was expecting that too
<mvo> yeah :)
<seb128> mvo: it should yes, but apparently they are busy or slacking or something
<MacSlow> seb128, can you feel my pain? ;)
<seb128> that's not that bad ;-)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: so, about pam
<Keybuk> you have an agenda item for it <g>
<MacSlow> seb128, I'd rather prefer sticking to gdm r6275 and avoid the libpam issue for some time... ogra and slangasek told me earlier what a huge bunch of work it would be to update everything to libpam >= 0.99.10.0
<MacSlow> I'm scared as hell regarding the libpam issue
<Keybuk> MacSlow: sounds like this should be discussed on ubuntu-devel
<Keybuk> slangasek is Mr PAM
<MacSlow> Keybuk, so skip it here and just ask what I want to ask on the ubuntu-devel ml?!
<Keybuk> o/~ Call Mr. PAM, that's my name
<seb128> are you sure the new version is required?
<Keybuk> o/~ that name again is Mr. PAM
<seb128> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gdm/trunk/daemon/gdm-session-worker.c?r1=6276&r2=6275&pathrev=6276
<Keybuk> MacSlow: exactly
<seb128> the code seems to use ifdef cases
<MacSlow> Keybuk, ok
<MacSlow> seb128, hm... didn't saw that yet
<Keybuk> (-> mailing list ;)
<Keybuk> tedg: IM Future
<MacSlow> I wonder if Fedora uses a new libpam already
<tedg> So the question came up with where do we seem IM going on the desktop.
<Keybuk> IM being Instant Messaging
<tedg> Is it a Pidgin or a Telepathy thing.
<tedg> It seems like Telepathy is trying to get into GNOME, but not for this round at least.
<seb128> MacSlow:  fc9 has 1.0.1
<Keybuk> my feeling is that Pidgin vaguely works, but isn't popular
<tedg> Will Empathy be default on the Ubuntu desktop in the future?
<Keybuk> Telepathy is popular, the future, but doesn't work
<seb128> Keybuk: I've to opposite feeling
<Keybuk> seb128: really, which feeling do you have?
<seb128> I've the impression 95% of linux non-kde users are running pidgin
<mvo> I guess this is because pdigin works
<seb128> or maybe I didn't get your "popular" definition
<Keybuk> ah, sorry
<pitti> why isn't pidging popular?
<Keybuk> by popular I meant that nobody really _likes it_
<Keybuk> but everybody uses it
<pedro_> it's very popular
<pitti> it speaks everything IMish and looks moderately decent?
<seb128> to be fair I don't think we get very users complains
<Keybuk> Pidgin vaguely works, everyone uses it, but nobody really likes it
<MacSlow> seb128, that explains their forward nature to add this newer libpam feature to gdm
<pitti> i. e. my q is: what's wrong with it?
<seb128> it just works fine for all the lusers I know
<Keybuk> everyone likes Telepathy, but it doesn't work and nobody uses it much
<seb128> "everyone" in the GNOME upstream community you mean
<Keybuk> yeah
 * Keybuk isn't picking good words today
<seb128> the large userbase has nothing against pidgin from what I can see
<seb128> I would be in favor to keep using pidgin until we have a compeling reason to switch
<Keybuk> the main thing telepathy has going for it, is that one day it will do MSN video chats
<seb128> or until telepathy is a good as pidgin is
<Keybuk> (it claims to do it today, but usually crashes on me <g>)
<seb128> the telepathy stack is available in ubuntu and people who know about it are usually fine installing it
<seb128> and users who don't know about it likely want to use pidgin at the moment because it works better
<Keybuk> so would you say that Pidgin is clearly today's choice
<seb128> so I would be in favor of keeping pidgin as the default for now
<pitti> of course it would be nice to eventually merge things like pidgin and ekiga, but is it there yet?
<Keybuk> and the choice of the near future
<seb128> dunno about near future
<Keybuk> but in the distant future, telepathy may have more promise
<MacSlow> regarding pidgin... it's ICQ-plugin just started to fail working yesterday
<seb128> but I don't see that changing in a 6 months timeframe
<pitti> MacSlow: hardy-proposed FTW
<seb128> MacSlow: already fixed yesterday for gutsy, hardy and intrepid
<MacSlow> pitti, I've those enabled... odd
<seb128> MacSlow: the hardy update was blocked until this morning due to 8.04.1
<pitti> MacSlow: upgrade again :) (and maybe de.archive mirror lag)
<Keybuk> tedg: does that answer your question? :)
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> what other people think about pidgin?
<seb128> I've been a bit vocal but I'm interested in other people opinion too ;-)
<ogra> pitti, so would you drop xchat for pidgin ?
<tedg> Keybuk: Yes.
<seb128> ogra: we did that a year ago
<Keybuk> I use pidgin for MSN, I tried to hack on the code a couple of times, but it made me ill
<ogra> seb128, pitti didnt :)
<pitti> ogra: we haven't isntalled xchat for ages any more; WDYM?
<ogra> seb128, me neither
<Keybuk> I use Empathy for Jabber and Bonjour, and the code for that is much neater
<tedg> Personally, I like Empathy but it does make me unhappy often (using Pidgin now)
<pitti> ogra: oh, you mean me personally? I use weechat nowadays
<Keybuk> but then again, random trivia time
<ogra> pitti, oh, i thought you had it last sprint :) sorry then
<seb128> Keybuk: code is not revelant here since we don't do upstream work on it ;-)
<Keybuk> we use Telepathy to do the Icecast streaming at UDS
<MacSlow> pitti, seb128: will try
<ogra> pitti, so why dont you use pidgin ? :)
<seb128> what we need to know if it does as many protocol, has the same features and is as stable
<pitti> I use pidgin every day (started automatically) for ICQ and jabber, and it Just Works
<Keybuk> and it breaks randomly
<pitti> ogra: too wasteful with screen space
<ogra> it does IRC as well
<ogra> right
<Keybuk> in fact, we had to roll back to hardy versions of some things just to make it work for Prague
<seb128> I use it for icq, jabber, msn and bonjour at conference and it just works for me too
<tedg> seb128: Telepathy will use pidgin's libpurple, so the protocols aren't as much of an issue.
<Keybuk> so Telepathy clearly has a way to go
<pitti> just fine for ICQ, but not nice for IRC channels which are permanently open
<ogra> i fintd it unusable for IRC as well ...
<tedg> seb128: It isn't as stable though.
<Keybuk> seb128: the pidgin bonjour implementation is infamously broken
<Keybuk> pidgin can only talk to pidgin
<seb128> when I tried it previous time I didn't manage to configure an account
<seb128> but maybe I should try again
<tedg> The cool part about telepathy is the GStreamer integration, the voice chats and video (I haven't done that yet) possibilities are exciting.
<pedro_> also at the moment Empathy doesn't have a lot of the shiny things that normal users tend to use (smiles, themes, etc) it's also a bit difficult to configure (new accounts for instance)
<seb128> well
<seb128> on the paper telepathy is great
<seb128> and it's clearly the way to go
<seb128> I just don't think it's there yet
<seb128> and I think our usebase will not like the change because it'll no win them a lot
<tedg> Also, folks like Abiword are using it for their AbiCollab stuff (one mode of it)
<ogra> just ship the papaer with the CDs :)
<seb128> and it still has many issues compared to pidgin
<MacSlow> tedg, the gstreamer-bits of Telepathy make me jump of joy regarding all the "hideous" things one could to with GL on it
<seb128> that's likely early gstreamer days
<Keybuk> tedg: Abiword vs. OpenOffice is a totally different religious war ;)
<seb128> everybody was still using totem-xine
<ogra> Keybuk, a totally vaid one though ... until it comes to .ppt
<Keybuk> seb128: I think we got away with that because nobody really expected video to work
<ogra> *valid
<Keybuk> so we were able to bet on gstreamer, and wait for it to develop
<Keybuk> I think people expect IM to work too much
 * tedg doesn't know why development of presentation software seems to fail
<Keybuk> so we have to use Pidgin, and can't default to telepathy until it actually works
<seb128> right
<MacSlow> Keybuk, three of the core gstreamer folks are at Collabora now
<seb128> and my gut feeling is that telepathy is not there yet
<mvo> they are used to see it working from previous releases
<seb128> and it'll be perceived as a regression for many users in the current state
<MacSlow> Keybuk, so one can expect to see gstreamer usage in telepathy rock sooner or later
<Keybuk> tedg: http://www.apple.com/iwork/keynote/ but for Linux ... mmmm
<ogra> tedg, yes, its a shame ... and there were several attaempts ... but you are somewhat bound to have ppt support *first* before you start anything else , because its a quasi standard
<MacSlow> Keybuk, but that's just a bit of guessing from my side
<seb128> UI too confusing, too many bugs, features not ready yet
<tedg> So, let me add a GUADEC question.... Telepathy for next LTS?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I would say a one year timeframe seems reasonable
<seb128> maybe intrepid+1
<seb128> just my opinion
<seb128> but it depends a lot of active the project is in the next months, not easy to say
<seb128> gvfs is stalled at the moment for example
<tedg> Keybuk: Have you actually used Keynote?  I haven't done anything but look at screenshots :-/
<Keybuk> tedg: yes
<Keybuk> it's really quite nice
<tedg> Keybuk: What's so great?
<tedg> Is Nokia still funding Telepathy development?
<seb128> btw does anybody knows what is going on tracker?
<Keybuk> tedg: it's not the PowerPoint model of presentation, where you draw boxes and drop things into slides
<seb128> some guys are commiting all days long on it for months now
<Keybuk> tedg: it's much more about visuals and styles, and emphasis on what you want to say
<seb128> is nokia funding them to get it on shape or something?
<Keybuk> hard to explain really
<Keybuk> I found it really easy to put together a presentation in keynote, when OOo (and ppt) seems like a hard slog
<tedg> seb128: Nokia funded the original work, it ships in the Internet tablets today.
<seb128> tedg: speaking about what?
<tedg> seb128: I'm not sure if they're funding more work or not.
<tedg> seb128: Telepathy.
<seb128> I was speaking about tracker, the indexer thing
<tedg> Heh, okay :)
<tedg> Sorry.
<tedg> Keybuk: Interesting, I'll have to convince my wife she needs a copy at academic discount so I can play with it :)
<Keybuk> tedg: you can download a free trial
<Keybuk> seb128: no idea about tracker, not been following it
<Keybuk> it's another thing in my "want, but ewwww" bin
 * Keybuk presses on, since we're over time
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReportingPage
<Keybuk> please, please, everybody add things to that page today
<Keybuk> I need to write the monthly report and team report, and have little content
<tedg> The KDE tracker (I forget the name) seems to be developing well.
<tedg> If it's all XESAM as the backend, it might be an option.
<Riddell> strigi
<Keybuk> otherwise is there any other business?
<mvo> Keybuk: should we add the major bits of the last month to that reports page?
<pitti> I wanted to discuss g-s-t replacement, but that can happen on the ML, too
<tedg> Riddell: How "QT" is it?  Can you just install the indexer/backend?
<Riddell> tedg: the backend isn't Qt at all
<pitti> I sent a report last week, but got no response so far
<mvo> pitti: the users tool is the only missing bit, right?
<pitti> mvo: exactly
<mvo> pitti: you seemed to be not very happy with the system-config-users you reviewed
<pitti> not with the authorization, no
<seb128> pitti: oh, there was some pending questions? I read the report, great one btw, and conclude that's not something we want to use
<Keybuk> mvo: yes please
<pitti> so if anyone knows an alternative, please tell us
<pitti> seb128: not without some good chunk of upstream work, yes
<tedg> Riddell: Hmm, I don't know that it's something for Intrepid, but perhaps we should discuss the idea of using strigi at UDS "J"?  I'd solve the "I changed desktops and have to re-index my files" problem.
<Keybuk> Jazzy Jaguar
<Keybuk> (* note: invented in my head, and my history of guessing names is poor )
<MacSlow> Keybuk, sounds like a games-console :)
<Riddell> tedg: it would certainly be nice to have only one backend
<ogra> the twelve cylinder release :)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> adjourned
<MacSlow> Riddell, how much interaction (code-sharing) is likely to happen between tracker and strigi?
<Keybuk> thanks all
<seb128> Keybuk: thanks
<mvo> thanks Keybuk
<pitti> thanks everyone
<MacSlow> thanks!
<MacSlow> Riddell, strigi is C++ (iirc) and tracker is C, right?
<Riddell> MacSlow: yes
<Riddell> MacSlow: tracker hasn't been keen to work with strigi, libstreamanalyzer was written with them in mind but they never picked it up
<MacSlow> Riddell, *sigh*
<tedg> MacSlow: My understanding from FOSSCamp is that they have different "indexing concepts" -- but after that it was jibberish to me.
<Riddell> also I don't know if there's a standard ontology, so you can't just swap one for the other even with XESAM
<MacSlow> Riddell, so there's beagle, strigi and tracker now for some time... and no sign of any unification... well apart from this f.d.o spec
<MacSlow> Riddell, I though that was what XESAM was all about... to be able to switch the indexer-backends
<Riddell> MacSlow: with XESAN I think it should be faily easy to port apps from one to the other, but some porting still needed
<Riddell> MacSlow: right, so same query language, but different queries needed
<Riddell> (as I understand it)
<MacSlow> probably not good to try thinking about it without having followed those projects closely
<Riddell> indeed
<MacSlow> tedg, vices and virtues of OSS-development... everybody has a "better" idea of the same thing :)
<tedg> Yup, part of what I'm talking about at OSCON ;)
<MacSlow> tedg, too bad I'm not going to OSCON
<tedg> MacSlow: Well, if nothing else it would suck to go to Istanbul, London and Portland in all weeks following each other :)
<MacSlow> tedg, this indexer problem reminds me a bit of the TTM-vs-GEM dispute in Xorg-land
<MacSlow> tedg, Portland... what's there again?
<tedg> MacSlow: Yeah, there's tons of debates like it in Open Source.  It's sad that we get divided, but I think it usually results in a stronger solution in the end.
<tedg> MacSlow: OSCON
<MacSlow> hopefully
<tedg> MacSlow: It's the week after the sprint.
<MacSlow> tedg, I just so much look for DRI2... and honestly don't care if it will use TTM or GEM in the end. Right now it's TTM
<MacSlow> OSS gfx-drivers should just be feature-wise on-par with nvidia's binary-blob
<tedg> MacSlow: I guess for me, at the end of the day with X, it's what drivers will support it.  Sadly, the answer is probably non for quite a while.
<MacSlow> the upstream version for i965 looks promising
<tedg> That'd be nice, I hate my Intel graphics chip.  It's the reason my wife refers to Ubuntu as "instable" -- it crashes the display every few days.
<tedg> Or, sorry, unstable.
<MacSlow> tedg, the i965?! hm... my laptop has one too and it's rock-solid for me (only major issue is DRI2 missing)
<MacSlow> well and a couple of GL-extensions I really like (FBOs, GLSL)
<tedg> MacSlow: I've got a Mac Mini which I'm pretty sure is using that chip, and it crashes regularly.
<MacSlow> but like mentioned the upstream version has those... only a bit unstable
<tedg> MacSlow: I'm not sure if it's that it's using shared memory and I'm running it at 1920x1200 -- but it runs fine in OSX.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 16:00 UTC: First Java Team meeting | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<leetcharmer> Hello everyone :)
<leetcharmer> Is this where the Ubuntu Java Meeting is going to be held?
<slytherin> leetcharmer: yes, but it is going to after one hour
<leetcharmer> Isn't it 1555 UTC right now?
<leetcharmer> I thought it started at 16:00 UTC
<persia> It's Almost 16:00 BST, but that's an hour different than UTC (Summer time in Britain)
<robilad> so - in 60 minutes
<robilad> stay around, or join us on #ubuntu-java to discuss other things you'd like to put on the agenda
<laga> yay, java
<leetcharmer> hihi all :D
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: First Java Team meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<dholbach> hiya
<robilad> hi dholbach
<leetcharmer> Hello everyone
<chandru_in> hi friends
<dholbach> who's here for the Java Team meeting?
<chandru_in> hi robilad :)
<leetcharmer> I am :D
<persia> \o
 * robilad too
<laga> i am.
<dholbach> doko: are you around?
<laga> just listening in, thouh.
<laga> s/thouh/though/
<bliZZardz> mute spectator
<dholbach> do we have YuriyKozlov and FlavioMartins here?
 * ScottK is just listening too.
<dholbach> just making sure all people with agenda items are around
<rivasdiaz> spectator
<leetcharmer> laga: NERD!! just type though* :D
<Koon> o/
<dholbach> hi Koon
<laga> leetcharmer: huh. that's common on IRC. :)
 * Koon hugs dholbach
<dholbach> so who's going to run the meeting?
 * dholbach hugs Koon back
<leetcharmer> laga: more like common in vim :D
<yuriy> hi!
 * marting will probably just lurk and listen during the java meeting
<dholbach> OK, I'll start off the meeting but will have to clear out in 1h30m
<cody-somerville> \o_
<robilad> sounds good
<dholbach> so let's get started - we have an action packed agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
 * chandru_in is excited
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:05. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Development targets for intrepid (EmmetHikory)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Development targets for intrepid (EmmetHikory)
<dholbach> persia: the floor is yours :)
<dholbach> I guess this is about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap which is pretty empty right now?
<persia> OK.  I'd like my items in reverse order.
 * doko will leave at 17:00 UTC
<persia> First is regular meeting times: is this a good time?  Are people missing that we'd like to see present?  Do we want meetings weekly?  fortnightly?
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Setting regular meeting times
<MootBot> New Topic:  Setting regular meeting times
<leetcharmer> I don't like this meeting time because it's too close to when I work
<leetcharmer> but, if everyone else is good for it, then I can't complain
<dholbach> leetcharmer: earlier? later?
<leetcharmer> earlier please
<chandru_in> Coming form India, I find it really good (9:30 PM IST)  But others I guess, esp from western part of globe will have few probs
<leetcharmer> ya, it's 11:07AM right now here
<dholbach> I wouldn't mind having it earlier
<leetcharmer> at noon here, I'll be working
<dholbach> but I'm generall OK with this time
<mslama> i would prefer 1hr sooner but lower priority, prefer not later than now
<leetcharmer> 10AM here is really good :) which, I think is 15:00UTC during summer?
<robilad> 1 hour earlier would work a bit better for me, too.
<leetcharmer> yea, I'd like 1 hour earlier
<persia> Right.  Let's go with 15:00 then.
<mslama> at least at summer time
<persia> Weekly or fortnightly?
<dholbach> excellent
<chandru_in> I'd be happy with an hour earlier too
<leetcharmer> what is fortnightly?
<robilad> every two weeks
<dholbach> every 14 days
<persia> leetcharmer: Once a fortnight (14 days)
<dholbach> leetcharmer: don't worry - I had to ask too :)
<chandru_in> Initially at least a weekly meet should be nice.  As we may need to iron out integration with rest of desktop and stuff
<leetcharmer> persia: that is the weirdest thing I'd ever heard.
<dholbach> the only person I'm missing right now is man-di
<dholbach> can somebody mail him and ask if Thu 15:00 UTC is OK for him?
<leetcharmer> weekly is fine for now, but lets transition to fortnight overtime :)
<chandru_in> leetcharmer: +1
<dholbach> persia: are you happy to move to the next topic?
<persia> dholbach: Sure.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Development targets for intrepid (EmmetHikory)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Development targets for intrepid (EmmetHikory)
<persia> Right.  Development targets for intrepid:  What do we want to do?
<cody-somerville> A java stack that Just Works (TM).
<dholbach> It'd be nice if we directly added new targets to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap
<robilad> dholbach: I pinged man-di, and pass back his reply.
<leetcharmer> new targets?
<persia> For me, trying to get everything out of universe, and getting the necessary helpers to make launching Java just work are interesting.  What are other people's goals?
<robilad> i.e. will pass back
<dholbach> thanks robilad
<leetcharmer> persia: can you define Java Just work a little better?
<robilad> persia: out of universe as in moving to main?
<persia> Bah.  I'm not being clear :(
<persia> Launching Java is sometimes tricky because of JAVA_HOME and the like, which I think we ought be able to solve.
<chandru_in> leetcharmer: I guess it is related to the 3rd topic in Agenda to some extent
<persia> I meant "out of multiverse".  Some in main would be nice.
<robilad> right, thanks
<robilad> both sound great to me
<dholbach> so can we make the goals a bit more clear and explicit?
<Koon> persia: more support for building packages "the Debian way" using maven2
<persia> maven2?
<cody-somerville> Is there anything we can do to optimize the stack? Java has gotten a rap for being slow and bloated and it would be nice to see that perception (or reality) shift.
<leetcharmer> maven2??
<chandru_in> I'd suggest packaging a Java stack by default in server edition as first move
<Koon> I mean maven.
<bliZZardz> chandru_in: stack - as in..which all components there?
<chandru_in> JDK 6 + Tomcat/Glassfish/JBoss
<leetcharmer> "<persia> Launching Java is sometimes tricky because of JAVA_HOME and the like, which I think we ought be able to solve."  I think solving this should be a priority :)
<chandru_in> MySQL is already there so no probs there
<bliZZardz> leetcharmer : that is one hell of a problem. I guess this was a prominent topic even in JavaPolis(read some blogs)
<chandru_in> I'm not really understanding what exactly we need JAVA_HOME for (except to configure servers for which anyway we may need to set other environment vars too)
<daviem> don't forget jetty
<Koon> chandru_in: see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/j2ee
<chandru_in> To the default server stack we can add in Spring and Hibernate libs too
<dholbach> I think adding targets like "evaluate if ..." are a good idea right now - also it'd be nice if those of you being interested in working on them would add their name to the target too
<persia> It sounds like we've a few ideas going.  Would you guys mind putting a little writeup on the Roadmap (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap).  I'll add mine in my morning.
<robilad> ok, I'd suggest that for the 'multiverse to universe' transition part of persia's proposal we add it to the roadmap as a goal, and flesh out application and libraries we'd like to see successfully migrate
<chandru_in> thanks Koon
<persia> I think we'll get a lot of help from Debian's parallel Java-in-main effort, and can usefully coordinate with Debian on most of the changes we make.
<Koon> chandru_in: it's more at the evaluation stage, but we need to have the basic infrastructure that could make it happen.
<leetcharmer> bliZZardz: what makes it so difficult?
<robilad> yep
<homanj> got here late. where are we in the agenda?
<dholbach> so who of you is interested in working on/coordinating which target?
<dholbach> homanj: intrepid goals
<homanj> dholbach: thanks.
<chandru_in> I'd like to help with the server integration part
<dholbach> it sounds like chandru_in and Koon probably have a target together - that sounds great
<dholbach> what's going to be part of your effort?
 * chandru_in is more of a Java developer than a good Deb packager
<chandru_in> :(
<dholbach> I think it's fine if we don't have all the specifics in our hands yet, but we should have something a bit more concrete on the wiki page
<chandru_in> ok
<Koon> dholbach: at that point we need to evaluate how much dependencies are needed to be added for having something as Geronimo or Glassfish in. Both rely on maven to build so having more "offline" capabilities for maven is a plus
<persia> I'm happy with this response to my topic, and if those with goals are willing to update the roadmap and document the specifics, I'm done.
<chandru_in> Will do my best persia
<dholbach> doko, robilad: what's part of the main/universe transition? can we add something to the roadmap there?
<doko> dholbach: which transition?
<dholbach> doko: robilad mentioned a multiverse to universe transition
<robilad> yeah, I picked that up from persia's formulation of the goals above
<leetcharmer> dholbach: wasn't it a multiverse to main?
<slytherin> Koon: glassfish is already in. hibernate and jboss are caught in vicious circle of circular dependencies.
<dholbach> I think it's important that the new Java team talks about what's happening and who's involved in what
<bliZZardz> leetcharmer : it is more to do with which is the right way to set it.i get confused sometimes.
<dholbach> leetcharmer: that's what I'm trying to figure out
<robilad> sounds like a nice idea for packages we care about to help make sure they move from multiverse to universe.
<dholbach> right now the Roadmap is blank :)
<persia> There are two separate bits: multiverse to universe is generally useful.  universe to main depends largely on OpenJDK universe to main (which is the next topic)
<chandru_in> slytherin: What kind of dependencies?
<Koon> slytherin: glassfish v2 is in multiverse -- the idea would be to get v3 in universe
<doko> for multiverse -> universe, there's nothing more to do than checking it works with openjdk
<slytherin> chandru_in: Check http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs for now. We can discuss it sometime later.
<doko> Koon: there's a hell to do with glassfish packaging (and building from source)
<Koon> doko: oh yes. especially if we stick with maven (they use a lot of maven plugins)
<Koon> doko: we might conclude that it's not worth it
<chandru_in> isn't Glassfish already in universe?
<doko> no, there's a very small subset of it
<geser> chandru_in: for JBoss (jbossas4) see bug 184557
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 184557 in jbossas4 "Circular build-depends, needs initial bootstrapping on the buildds" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184557
<slytherin> For multiverse -> universe, one also needs to make sure that build package doesn't miss any classes due to compilation with Free jdk. It happened with me in case of xmlgraphics-commons.
<leetcharmer> alright, it's time for me to go.  I'll see you guys next week :) Hopefully an hour earlier :)
<Koon> doko: though, from what I've seen, geronimo is even worse in terms of deps :)
 * leetcharmer waves goodbye.
<robilad> bye leetcharmer
<dholbach> bye leetcharmer
<leetcharmer> is next meeting time gonna be posted on the JavaMeeting wiki page?
<chandru_in> bye leetcharmer
<robilad> leetcharmer: yes
<leetcharmer> thanks
<dholbach> OK... let's all update the Roadmap accordingly and review it next time - persia: OK?
<persia> That's fine by me.  I didn't mean to take this long, and am very curious about the next topic.
<chandru_in> ok
<chandru_in> ï»¿ï»¿So how many would like a free replacement for the new features in next gen Java plugin (which is proprietary).  This is give Java a boost on desktop and RIA space (a free RIA platform)?
<dholbach> thanks persia
<dholbach> robilad: and yuriy want to talk about "OpenJDK in main"
<dholbach> [TOPIC] OpenJDK in main
<MootBot> New Topic:  OpenJDK in main
<robilad> thanks, dholbach
<doko> what's the goal of discussing "likings about the new plugin" ?
<chandru_in> may be some developer here can develop free replacement for it possibly basing out of the gcj web plugin codebase
<dherron> doko, clearly "plugin" is high on a lot of wish lists...
<slytherin> chandru_in: please keep the discussion close to agenda
<doko> openjdk in main will likely happen in July; the problem will be that we won't have it on all architectures, so people and packagers should be prepared to see another vm/sdk on the community ports
<chandru_in> slytherin: ok can I bring it up during the desktop integration topic?
<yuriy> so, now that there are no licensing issues stopping it, I think Java (OpenJDK) should Just Work OOTB
<doko> dherron: but unlikely for intrepid, afaik
<yuriy> and then there's also no need for gcj?
<doko> yuriy: please read what I did write
<dherron> doko, right... if the plugin gets more liberally distributed it won't happen by then
<persia> doko: Which platforms are expected to be problematic for OpenJDK?
<doko> powerpc, ia64, hppa
<persia> So all of sparc, i386, amd64, and lpia should be good?
<dherron> persia, openjdk out of the box only supports linux+x86 and linux+x86_64 ... however, doko, do you have any thought of using the zero assembler port to support other platforms
<yuriy> none of those are officially supported?
<doko> the powerpc port currently can be used for building, but it's unusable for any real work
<robilad> yuriy: there are no free software ports of openjdk's hotspot to powerpc, hppa and ia64 yet.
<doko> sparc is unsupported by upstream
<robilad> yep
<dherron> the linux+sparc code is out, however, if I recall right, just not well supported
<yuriy> robilad: I meant those architectures, by Ubuntu/Canonical
<persia> OK.  So we probably need a couple people to chase powerpc and sparc if we want those.  I think ia64 and hppa are special :)
<robilad> sparc-linux is supported by the community, rather then sun specifically.
<ScottK> They are community supported in Ubuntu, just not by Canonical.
<doko> dherron: yes, we can use it to build stuff, but not to run. and for ia64 it doesn't build: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/tmp/openjdk-ia64-ecj.log
<persia> robilad: Are patches typically accepted upstream easily for e.g. sparc or powerpc?
<dholbach> do we have upstream bug reports or upstream plans for the problems / missing functionality?
<robilad> sparc-linux shouldn't be a problem, ideally we could kick off a porting project upstream on the existing codebase, and have everyone interested in sparc-linux pool into it.
<robilad> I'm currently working on making sure the BSD port gets integrated into upstream
<robilad> and I assume they would be interested in a sparc port, as well.,
<slytherin> I can chase powerpc to see if it works.
<persia> slytherin: That'd be great.
<robilad> cool, thanks, slytherin
<persia> Any volunteers to chase sparc?
<doko> persia: why?
<doko> slytherin: that would require to port hotspot to powerpc
<persia> doko: You said it wasn't supported.  Don't we need someone to help watch it if it's not clean?
<doko> persia: well, yes, you could look at our sparc build logs ;)
<slytherin> doko: I will be at least able to test it.
<persia> doko: My sparc is 40MHz, but I'll look :)
<robilad> no plans in openjdk so far to write support for other cpus, but whoever wants to have a go at ia64, ppc, hppa, etc. is welcome.
<robilad> there is a community porting project to mips64-linux, but that's not relevant to ubuntu.
<dholbach> robilad, yuriy: are you sufficiently happy with the discussion/answers?
<robilad> basicall, if you want to contribute to a port, get in touch with me, and I'll help you get set up.
<robilad> yes.
<dherron> well, "no plans..so far" is just that nobody has proposed a porting project for powerpc.  I'm sure if someone wanted to do it we'd accept it
<robilad> yep, like dherron said
<dholbach> Great, let's move on then
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Debian/Ubuntu Java packaging coop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Debian/Ubuntu Java packaging coop
<robilad> right, a lot of what we're going to be doing is going to be relevant to debian's java project
<robilad> so I was wondering how the collaboration works atm, and what we could do better
<dholbach> I'm sure doko can tell us about this :)
 * robilad gives doko the floor
<doko> there are not a lot of active people in the debian java team, so best thing would be to package stuff that is not yet packaged ourself and notice debian about it (like needed dependencies)
<robilad> not a lot means basically doko, man-di, paulcager? ;)
<dholbach> I guess that a few differences will always be in the Ubuntu and Debian Java teams: different release schedules and triaging Ubuntu / Debian Java bugs
<persia> For notification of new packages, should we be sending notice to debian-java@lists.debian.org?
<doko> so it comes down to the task that people start packaging new packages
<robilad> yeah, and I like doko's suggestion to focus on growing the package base - persia, I think that's where the java packaging session discussed would be a great way to introduce new people.
<robilad> discussed on #ubuntu-java before
<persia> robilad: Let's hope MOTU School can find an instructor for it :)
<dholbach> a list of missing packages and some reference packages would help too
<robilad> for those that haven't been on #ubuntu-java, it's listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests
<robilad> yeah - there is an interesting script from tinuviel
<robilad> that basically compares what's packaged in which version in which distribution
<robilad> http://sparcs.kaist.ac.kr/~tinuviel/package/list.cgi?name=java
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://sparcs.kaist.ac.kr/~tinuviel/package/list.cgi?name=java
<james_w> we could have a session this month if anyone would be willing to present it
<dholbach> if some of you preferred to run it as a dynamic Java duo, that'd be fine too
<james_w> indeed
<slytherin> I can be assistant (not primary resource) for MOTU School java session.
<dholbach> slytherin: you ROCK - that'd be great
<persia> Can we jump quickly to the meta package discussion before doko has to go?
<dholbach> persia: good idea
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Explanation in brief by doko about various meta packages related to java will be good.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Explanation in brief by doko about various meta packages related to java will be good.
<thielmann> I have to leave now. Thanks for the really great discussion here an in #ubuntu-java before. I would be happy to get my hands on packaging Java applications. Bye.
<doko> there's not much to say. there are packages default-jre-headless, default-jre, default-jdk and default-jdk-builddep which should be used for packaging
<doko> dependencies on explicit packages should be avoided
<dholbach> slytherin: is this what you wanted to know?
<slytherin> How about what is difference betweek compiler, runtime and virtual-machine
<slytherin> And of course sdk
<dherron> doko, something openjdk hackers would appreciate is a virtual package to pull in all openjdk build dependencies
<slytherin> My bas I should have said meta packages and virtual packages.
<dholbach> dherron: sudo apt-get build-dep openjdk?
<dherron> dholbach, that would work for the openjdk instance packaged by/for ubuntu, I'm talking about people taking our upstream tarball for hacking
<doko> sudo apt-get build-dep openjdk-6
<doko> dherron: that would be a subset?
<dherron> oh, wait, never mind, so long as the build dependencies were right it wouldn't matter
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> slytherin:  which virtual packages and which other meta packages?
 * nixternal hugs dholbach 
<nixternal> mmm java
<slytherin> dholbach: the one I said above. *-sdk, *-compiler, *-runtime, *-virtual-machine etc.
<doko> *-virtual-machine is obsolete
<doko> the one's to be used are *-sdk, *-runtime and *-runtime-headless
<persia> Not *-compiler either?
<dherron> -compiler == -sdk, I'd think
<persia> dherron: Right, but we need to be careful to use the right names, as the old ones (e.g. -virtual-machine) will go away, causing FTBFS.
<slytherin> so what is difference between compiler and sdk?
<doko> no, at least no recent -sdk provides -compiler
<dholbach> ok... slytherin: all questions resolved?
<doko> I have to leave now
<robilad> thanks for your time and help, doko!
<dholbach> doko: have a great evening
<dholbach> and thanks a lot
<lenards> doko: thanks
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Packaging Maven2 fixes from Fedora
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging Maven2 fixes from Fedora
<dholbach> another topic for robilad
<robilad> yeah, i just keep coming up with those things
<dholbach> hehe
 * dholbach hugs robilad
 * robilad hugs dholbach back 
<robilad> wehere was I
<robilad> right
<doko> stop hugging, start working ;-p
<robilad> beside a great runtime, one of the major things for the J2EE support seems to be to package maven2 in a debian/ubuntu friendly wAY
<robilad> maven is a build tool used by many java projects instead of ant
<robilad> in particular because it supports semi-automatic fetching of build time dependencies from a maven JAR repository
<Koon> and semi-automatic fetching of "plug-ins" that add functionality
<persia> I'll note that for python, we mostly disable ezsetup and access to the cheeseshop.
<robilad> so regular java devs often like that apt-get-ish functionality
<robilad> but as persia says, such funcitonality is not really desirable when you try to build a distirbution from scratch
<persia> We'd probably want to do a similar thing for maven, as otherwise we have a hard time ensuring stability of stable releases.
<robilad> since you want to be able to control all the ingredients going into a package
<dholbach> absolutely
<robilad> to makesure that they are free software, for example.
<robilad> etc.
<dholbach> does anybody know maven upstreams who might give pointers or even have answers?
<persia> Or just make sure they have patches that fix know security issues without changing user experience.
<robilad> so, the fedora team faced the same challenge with integrateing maven into fedora 8
<robilad> and they did integrate it
<robilad> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Java.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Java.html
<robilad> 15.6
<robilad> by basically providing a distribution-friendly patchset for maven2
<robilad> which takes care of providing, next to the regular mvn command that maven users want to see behave as they expect it to behave
<dholbach> it'd be great if somebody looked into it and see how applicable those patches are for the Debian/Ubuntu world
<robilad> a mvn-jpp command, which basically enables some 'work better in offline mode with packaged JARs in /usr/share/java' switches in the packaged mvn command
<persia> robilad: So the user experience is similar, but the packages are actually pulled from the distro repo rahter than the master MVN repo?
<robilad> yes, for package builds using mvn-jpp
<robilad> while users running their own builds per hand, don't have to care about the requirements of the distribution
<Koon> robilad: any idea how they workarounded the maven2 plugin system ? They packaged most of the classic plugins ?
<persia> Ah, so we can do package builds with mvn-jpp offline (as we do all builds offline), but users still have regular mvn if they wish.  That sounds interesting.
<robilad> there is one interesting thing they do for fedora - they provide a mapping file with packages that mpas dependencies from maven to the local repo
<robilad> for mvn-jpp
<robilad> I don't know how they deal with plugins, unfortunately.
<robilad> but as dholbach says, I think this would be a very useful patch to look at
<dholbach> neat-o - let's see if somebody found the time for it until next time
<robilad> readme for mvn-jpp is at http://www.jpackage.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/rpms/free/maven2/maven2-jpp-readme.html?revision=1.1.2.1&root=jpackage&view=markup&pathrev=JPACKAGE-1_7
<persia> Koon: You mentioned maven in the intrepid targets topic.  Are you up for investigating this?
<Koon> persia: I'll have a look
<persia> Koon: That'd be great.  Thanks.
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> yuriy wanted to talk about "Java desktop integration"
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Java desktop integration (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/99445)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Java desktop integration (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/99445)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 99445 in sun-java6 "Java 6 and KDE integration" [Medium,Triaged]
<dherron> I read that bug a couple days ago... is it asking for Qt peers to go along with GTK peers?  I wasn't sure
<persia> yuriy: I was looking at that when you added the topic, but the bug description took me in a recursive loop: how does one work around that?
<Koon> got to go, see you all at next meeting
<dholbach> good night Koon - thanks for all
<dholbach> yuriy: still here?
<yuriy> persia: I haven't really looked into that bug, but I wanted to put the desktop integration stuff on people's radar
<yuriy> so issues include making sure swing apps look nice for both GTK and Qt
<persia> yuriy: The problem is that the link to the "solution" links to the bug page, so there's no clear target :(
<yuriy> currently I think they all get painted with GTK, and with gtk-qt-engine under KDE, and look quite ugly and disfunctional in some cases
<yuriy> persia: yeah, I don't know what's going on there, would need to track down the actual "solution"...
<yuriy> other desktop integration type stuff is is making sure that the plug-in works when it is installed
<dherron> yuriy, that's what I meant by GTK peers.. there isn't Qt peers in our code
<dholbach> It'd be good to have this discussion in the bug report to make it clearer
<dherron> It's an upstream issue, especially as the java-6 (not openjdk-6) packages are under a binary license
<yuriy> dholbach, dholbach: well, I just wanted to get this stuff on the roadmap
<persia> yuriy: I think it's a great idea, but needs a patch.  Could you hunt down the information about whether there are Qt peers, or it's some sort of Qt theme for the Gtk peers, or what not?
<yuriy> dherron: well, concerning openjdk, I don't expect anything to be done for java-5/6 at this point
<persia> Once we have some idea of what it takes, we can probably take a decision as to whether it's something we can do, or something where we need to help the patch author and upstream find a solution, which we can then adopt.
<dherron> yuriy, sure, but the bug in question is against sun-java6 not openjdk-6 ... in openjdk-6 it's possible to fix because that's open source
<dholbach> ok... shall we move on?
<yuriy> k
<chandru_in> is there any possibility
<dholbach> We still have Eclipse on the agenda - is Flavio here?
<dholbach> chandru_in: can you elaborate?
<chandru_in> for including gnome-java bindings by default?
<chandru_in> QtJambi on kubuntu as a counterpart
<persia> chandru_in: For "include by default", we need an application that depends on them.
<dholbach> chandru_in: would you be willing to drive that initiative? figure out what it'd take? what the benefits are and present that on  ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<dholbach> I'd imagine it'd take a bit of discussion
<chandru_in> sure
<dholbach> excelltn
<ScottK> Please do not install another language or bindings for it because it's neat.
<ScottK> Just do it if you need it for an application (as persia said).
<dholbach> that's why I said: discussion on ubuntu-devel@
<yuriy> chandru_in: why have them by default? they are available in the repositories and apps can depend on them if they need it
<dholbach> as Flavio is not here, I suggest we keep the agenda item on the wiki page
<robilad> ack
<persia> We can discuss Eclipse next week.
<robilad> 15 UTC, #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> OK, is there any other business? We can just discuss everything else in #ubuntu-java I'd say
<persia> robilad: You got confirmation from man-di?
<robilad> not yet, unfortunately
 * dholbach updates https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/99445
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 99445 in sun-java6 "Java 6 and KDE integration" [Medium,Triaged]
<lenards> persia, robilad, dholbach: thanks
<persia> robilad: Let's wait on that before definitively setting the meeting time.
<robilad> ok.
<persia> dholbach: Thanks for hosting the meeting.
<dholbach> OK... thanks a lot everybody - I'm really excited about this team, so I hope you all hang out on #ubuntu-java and help to make the team ROCK
<dholbach> thanks everybody for your interest
<dholbach> meeting adjourned
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:31.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
 * dholbach will do the minutes
<robilad> thanks, dholbach!
<CaseySchaufler> No security meeting then?
<kees> CaseySchaufler: oop! sorry, I'm just very very late.  :)
<CaseySchaufler> Summer is setting in.
<kees> I know propagandist said he wouldn't be able to make it today.
<kees> CaseySchaufler: I haven't had a chance to read the wiki page yet.
<CaseySchaufler> Should we defer then?
<kees> possibly, I will read the wiki, and we can go from there.  in two weeks?
<CaseySchaufler> I should be OK with that.
<CaseySchaufler> email if you have questions in the mean time.
<kees> okay, cool.  I'll send out an announcement for it a bit ahead of time then.  Thanks for showing up, sorry it's been cancelled.  :P
<CaseySchaufler> No worries.
<kees> :)
<CaseySchaufler> Ta.
<arun_> are we having the ubuntu java meeting
<stgraber> arun_: that was 4 hours ago
<arun_> Damn...I got the time zone wrong
<arun_> is there a way i can get the transcript?
<stgraber> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<arun_> ubottu bot just gave me the links
<ubottu> arun_: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<arun_>  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<JoshuaP0x> hello
<JoshuaP0x> i'm trying to get visual effects working but i get a "Desktop effects can not be enabled"
<JoshuaP0x> anyone run into this before?
<awalton_1> JoshuaP0x, this room is mainly used for meetings, user support is in #ubuntu.
<JoshuaP0x> thanks
<JoshuaP0x> meetings for what?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-04
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: How to run a Bug Jam | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
<dholbach> hi techno_freak :)
<techno_freak> dholbach, hi :)
<pedro_> hey hey hey
<dholbach> hi pedro_! :)
<dholbach> did you see my newest blog post?
<pedro_> hello dholbach!
<dholbach> Bug Jam organisation in PerÃº and Nicaragua seem to be going on VERY well :)
<pedro_> no i haven't yet
 * pedro_ looking
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=135
<pedro_> niiice !
<dholbach> yeah  -that's what I thought! :)
<dholbach> so welcome everybody to the Global Bug Jam preparation session!
<dholbach> who do we have here for the session today?
<techno_freak> dholbach, I have people preparing in at least 3 cities to group up during Bug Jam :)
<dholbach> techno_freak: GREAT - which cities are those?
<techno_freak> dholbach, Mumbai, Bangalore and Chennai, yet to hear from Delhi guys
<bliZZardz> techno_freak,(dholbach) : hope in India we make it as a success
<dholbach> grrr, net work
<dholbach> <bliZZardz> techno_freak,(dholbach) : hope in India we make it as a success
<dholbach> <dholbach> awesome
<dholbach>  maybe on my trip to India I should meet up with the guys in Delhi and talk to them directly :-)
<dholbach>  unfortunately I won't make it to Mumbai, Bangalore and Chennai
<dholbach>  techno_freak: if you can share contacts for the Delhi team with me, that'd be nice
<dholbach> hi leogg!
<leogg> hi dholbach :)
<techno_freak> dholbach, sure, will send you a mail CC'ed to those guys :)
<dholbach> leogg: thanks for the great interview
<dholbach> techno_freak: thanks a lot!
<leogg> dholbach, thank you!
<dholbach> so maybe, we should do a quick round of introductions again and see who we have here for the session and which loco team they're representing
 * dholbach is Daniel Holbach, member of the Ubuntu Berlin (Germany) team
 * techno_freak is Parthan, representing Ubuntu India Team
 * pedro_ Pedro Villavicencio from the Ubuntu Chilean team
 * leogg is Leandro GÃ³mez, member of the Nicaraguan Team
<dholbach> nice
 * bliZZardz is Venkatraman.S, representing Ubuntu India Team
<dholbach> I just pinged the folks on #ubuntu-locoteams - let's see if some of them turn up still
 * bliZZardz is UIndia (Chennai)
<pedro_> leogg: 40 events in last 16 months that's... amazing! congrats ;-) (re dholbach post)
<leogg> pedro_, thank you :)
<dholbach> I think I talked to some of you regarding the bug jam already and most of you seem to be doing quite well in terms of organisation
<dholbach> are there any pressing questions you have yourself right now which we should think about as a team?
<bliZZardz> what is going to be the course of action?? --  squashing the bugs in the reverse chronological order or the other way round?
<dholbach> bliZZardz: great question
<bliZZardz> asking, as i still see some bugs which are almost an year old.
<dholbach> pedro_, bdmurray and ogasawara are working on getting the bug lists in shape, so we will have a bunch of good targets for the event
<techno_freak> dholbach, i feel a team should select a package or two, favourably something which is not usually looked up, and should try to triage them as much as possible.
<dholbach> when I did a bug jam in Berlin I suggested to people to first pick "New" bugs of packages they know well and try to reproduce them to be able to mark the bug as confirmed
<dholbach> and add more information to the bug
<dholbach> also we're going to have a document outlining what a "good bug" consists of, ie. which information is necessary so others can start working on it
<techno_freak> cool :)
<dholbach> techno_freak: that's another good piece of advice
<dholbach> it'd be nice if you could ask around and see which packages people are interested in
<techno_freak> favourite packages always get the attention, like rhythmbox, compiz, amarok etc.
<pedro_> banshee needs a lot of love too ;-)
<dholbach> what we're going to try to do is: get experts for those packages on IRC so they can help with debugging and answering questions
<bliZZardz> dholbach : let me dumb and ask the Q again - is this going to be more of triaging or confirming the bugs that bdmurray et al come up with?
<dholbach> bliZZardz: I'd sum it up as "generally making as many bugs better as we can"
<dholbach> if "making it better" in some cases means "fix it", that's even better :)
<techno_freak> :)
<dholbach> does that make sense?
<bliZZardz> dholbach : yo yo yo yea.. :)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> bliZZardz, techno_freak, pedro_, leogg: how many members of your teams have done something related to bug triage before?
<bliZZardz> dholbach : i generally work on bugs on compiz, compiz-fusion, OOo, SVN, py-based-applications and other small tools (would like to work with more applications that are closer to OS - but need someone with experience to help me out).
<dholbach> bliZZardz: that sounds great
<techno_freak> dholbach, quite a few, but i see some surge of new members joining it after your series of blogs and some advertising from us :)
<dholbach> if you get feedback from your teams what kind of packages they're interested in, please add that information to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam
<leogg> dholbach, only me in .ni - but I'm going to organize a couple of workshops before the bug jam
<techno_freak> dholbach, sure, will get it done over the weekend
<bliZZardz> dholbach : am a n00b here..joined few backs back after observing the arena for some months... have been active since joined though.
<dholbach> techno_freak: ROCK - It's just that I want to get a feeling for what our audience is going to be like - I'm sure it's going to pretty diverse
<dholbach> guys... you can't believe how excited I am - this is going to be awesome! :)
<techno_freak> dholbach, we can convince people showing your 5-a-day stats ;)
 * bliZZardz is excited about Bug Jam .. hope we all learn stuff and have fun
<pedro_> dholbach: a good portion of them already triaged some bugs, we've working a few months ago in triage classes within the loco team :-)
<dholbach> Awsoonn: are you here for the Global Bug Jam Preparation session too?
<dholbach> pedro_: ah yeah, I remember
<Awsoonn> dholbach:  yup, sorry I'm late
<dholbach> Awsoonn: don't worry - it's great to have you!
<Awsoonn> ^_^
<dholbach> Awsoonn: can you let everybody know which team you're representing here?
<dholbach> maybe we could have another IRC "how to triage" session shortly before the GBJ?
<Awsoonn> Michigan Loco - The cold North
<bliZZardz> techno_freak : probably we need to have some triage classes in India loco too??  or did we already have it?
<bliZZardz> dholbach : you stole my words there :)
<techno_freak> bliZZardz, planning for this weekend or next
<leogg> dholbach, great idea
<dholbach> techno_freak: really? on IRC?
<dholbach> techno_freak: maybe we could coordinate it and invite a lot of people?
<techno_freak> dholbach, ya, #ubuntu-in and #ubuntu-bugs for help :)
<bliZZardz> dholbach : good idea
<pedro_> what about using ubuntu-classroom ? ;-)
<techno_freak> dholbach, would love if people can join too
<dholbach> let's make it #ubuntu-classroom then and let's pick a date and time so we can announce it on planet
<dholbach> and make a big noise about it :-)
<bliZZardz> let us concentrate overall , than at locos alone..
<techno_freak> why not this weekend?
<dholbach> might be a bit short notice
<bliZZardz> techno_freak : we need to 'market' ;) ..hence next weekend shud be good
<techno_freak> dholbach, ya, loco members can discuss within their team channels as well :)
<pedro_> mm it's maybe too close to the weekend (thinking about timezones)
<techno_freak> bliZZardz, naah, will mail the list tonight. people interested will always drop in
<dholbach> ok... shall we discuss date and time on ubuntu-bugsquad@?
<techno_freak> ok
<pedro_> sounds good
<dholbach> ROCK
<bliZZardz> :)
<dholbach> you guys are just awesome :)
<bliZZardz> only 5 us presently ON for this??
<dholbach> shall we think a bit more about "easy tasks" and how we'd like people to work on bugs together?
<techno_freak> if not 5-a-day, i wouldnt have started bug triage ;)
<techno_freak> dholbach, ^^
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> what kind of bugs would you suggest are relatively "easy"?
<bliZZardz> i never knew 5-a-day existed, i was exceeding it when i joined in LP :P
 * nealmcb waves at rockstar
<nealmcb> 2 from the colorado team here....
<techno_freak> Easy = Add more info, Find right Package
<rockstar> Hi nealmcb
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day
<techno_freak> nealmcb, welcome :)
<dholbach> be sure to let your team mates know about it
<dholbach> that way we'll find out which teams are doing well - especially if we use individual tags for the global-bug-jams :)
<dholbach> hi nealmcb, hi rockstar!
<dholbach> great to have you :)
<rockstar> hi dholbach
<dholbach> pedro_: what would you suggest - what kind of bugs should we suggest to 'new bug triagers'?
<techno_freak> dholbach, check basic info and add right package should be the beginning point
<Awsoonn> This in the first Loco Event for my area, how should I go about finding people in my area that would be interested?
<dholbach> techno_freak: yeah that sounds good
<dholbach> who can give Awsoonn some advice on that?
<pedro_> I'd suggest the Find the right package, those are pretty easy to do and it's also what i used for the triage classes they seems to work pretty fine to get an idea of how launchpad works and so on
<rockstar> dholbach, would it make sense to have a standard bug tag for beginners?  training-wheels ?
<pedro_> hey xander21c!
<xander21c> Hi pedro_
<dholbach> rockstar: right now the plan is to have several bug lists linked from the wiki that people can get start working on
<dholbach> hi xander21c!
<dholbach> Awsoonn: did you try the Michigan loco mailing list?
<dholbach> Awsoonn: and the forum?
<dholbach> also if there's a local LUG - that might work too
<rockstar> dholbach, yea, I've seen that before, and usually all those bugs are done whan I get to it.  :(
<techno_freak> Awsoonn, call the people who have ever filed a bug and discuss it one by one, in the process triage it. if you have the right people, you can try fixing some too :)
<dholbach> or a poster at the local college or something
<leogg> Awsoonn, maybe it's a good idea to team up with another loco as well, someone with more experience
<techno_freak> Awsoonn, people get excited when their bug gets some attention and will start participating
<Awsoonn> The mailing list is on the hit list, but the  active users on the forums and IRC are all 6 hours south
<xander21c> hi dholbach
<dholbach> rockstar: right, that happens - maybe it makes sense to pick a package people are interested in
<dholbach> (important: add those packages to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam so we can invite upstream experts for those packages)
 * dholbach doesn't get tired repeating that :-)
<rockstar> dholbach, yea.  Maybe it might make sense to go through a few days before the bug jam and assign a bunch of bugs to myself as "claimed" for our bugjam
<techno_freak> dholbach, it would be great if we can make a list of good examples of bug triage, one or two for each type of scenario
<dholbach> techno_freak: awesome idea - pedro_: what do you think?
<Awsoonn> leogg: I am part of a pretty active Loco, but they are all together in a cluster down south.
<techno_freak> dholbach, so new comers look at them and learn how to proceed
<dholbach> rockstar: I had the idea of pairing up people in teams of 4 and ask them to work on a list of bugs together
<pedro_> dholbach: yup that could work, I'll provide some examples
<dholbach> Awsoonn: what about LUGs/colleges/universities/.. nearby?
<leogg> Awsoonn, cool :)
<techno_freak> great!
<rockstar> dholbach, yea, I was thinking about doing that after a short tutorial on a projector.
<dholbach> pedro_: you just need to record your own work :-)
<dholbach> rockstar: neat-o
<pedro_> hehe yeah
<techno_freak> pedro_, and we can add the link to HowToTriage wiki page as well :)
<Awsoonn> dholbach: LSSU LUG, that I'm a member of, is out of session with most everyone out of town during the summer :/
<dholbach> are there any other problems that you see in terms of your organisation at the moment?
<pedro_> techno_freak: yes that sounds pretty nice ;-)
<rockstar> Awsoonn, maybe you could join another bugjam via "satellite"
<dholbach> Awsoonn: you need to try it... everywhere - maximum exposure :)
<Awsoonn> As for providing lists of bugs for differant skill sets, I plan on testing that over the next few Hug Days
<bliZZardz> probably some designers can get an eye-catching presentation done out of the wiki
<dholbach> Awsoonn: and it if's just a few of you, that's fine too
<dholbach> Awsoonn: good idea
<dholbach> that's something we probably should be more cautious about - if we get feedback about our docs/processes/etc - we should post them to the bugsquad list and think about how we can improve them
<dholbach> some documentation might be confusing, some ideas might not come across well
<dholbach> it would be nice to fix that before the Jam :9
<Awsoonn> The Hug Day yesterday went really well for the short list of 40 confirmed bugs that just needed to be triaged
<bliZZardz> Awsoonn, thats nice
<dholbach> are there any other questions you have right now? problems with the organisation?
<xander21c> dholbach: report to bugsquad about docs and processes it's crucial, many newbies including me get kind of confuse
<Awsoonn> so shorter, more goal/skill oriented lists seem to work well. That's what I see at least. :)
<yuriy> dholbach: what would you say is a good amount of time to allot to the bug jam?
<dholbach> xander21c: we sure to post your feedback to ubuntu-bugsquad@lists.u.c!
<dholbach> yuriy: good question - what do you all think? did you mention any times in your local announces already?
<xander21c> Q: is there a IRC channel especially for GBJ ??
<dholbach> xander21c: #ubuntu-bugs
<dholbach> we'll just use that one
<xander21c> ok
<rockstar> dholbach, I was thinking that 4 hours should be a minimum.
<techno_freak> a few hours should be fine
<dholbach> rockstar: that sounds good - we did 3 in Berlin and it was too short
<leogg> dholbach, I think our biggest issue is the language barrier... not everybody in the team are fluent in English. Any ideas?
<dholbach> if you have a venue that provides food and drinks that's obviously better :)
<rockstar> Yea, after a quick tutorial, there's not much time to answer questions.
<pedro_> even better if it's for free :-P
<yuriy> dholbach: originally I was thinking about 3 since I don't think we're gonna get much participation. but actually we should do more like 6 so it's worth getting lunch
<dholbach> leogg: some communication will always be English (in the bug reports for example) - do you think it'd help a lot if some of the initial bug documentation was translated?
<techno_freak> dholbach, or we can atleast make sure multi-lingual support/translation in #ubuntu-bugs :)
<techno_freak> so if they get some doubt, they have someone there to help with
<pedro_> or we can adopt spanish as the official language, that would solve everything
<techno_freak> ha ha
<leogg> dholbach, if you guys can send me some links on important documentation, I can translate it into Spanish
<pedro_> ;-)
<dholbach> sure... if there's enough interest, we could definitely have something like #ubuntu-bugs-spanish / #ubuntu-bugs-german / #ubuntu-bugs-hindi / #ubuntu-bugs-... for the jam - if that makes sense
<leogg> pedro_, +1 :)
<dholbach> leogg: added to my TODO list
<leogg> dholbach, ty
<bliZZardz> rather we can rename ubuntu to 'spanish' ;)
<pedro_> oh yes that's even better
<leogg> hehe
<pedro_> let's do that
<bliZZardz> lol :P
<techno_freak> dholbach, loco team channels are already there, and remember there are >26 languages within India itself :P
<bliZZardz> [OT]
<techno_freak> i dont want some regional conflicts within #ubuntu-in :P
<dholbach> techno_freak: we only need to serve those languages that people are interested in - if it's a big problem, so if there's an interest in having #ubuntu-bugs-spanish people that speak spanish can hang out there
<techno_freak> dholbach, ya i agree, some languages need help :)
<dholbach> it'd just be for the event and just for getting enough questions answered to get started
<techno_freak> i have seen many bug reports in Chinese, with someone in bgu squad translating it to English using google translate ;)
<dholbach> pedro_: do you think that makes sense or am I out of my mind?
<pedro_> that would help a lot i think, we we're planning to have something similar with xander21c for the Latin American locos
<dholbach> NICE
<pedro_> dholbach: make a LOT of sense to me ;-)
<dholbach> alright
<dholbach> I'll discuss it with the German/Austrian/Swiss folks and see how that works
<pedro_> rock!
<xander21c> yes, get Latin American Locos sync so we can help each other
<dholbach> the more questions we can answer in #ubuntu-bugs the better
<dholbach> so actively encourage your members to speak up there
<techno_freak> hmm, we have some nice ideas out of today's meeting :)
<leogg> xander21c, great!
<dholbach> I've had many people in German teams that said "oh my English is so bad", when it really really wasn't :-)
<dholbach> so... encouraging++
<techno_freak> ya!
<pedro_> yes yes yes
<dholbach> pedro_, leogg: are you going to ping some other spanish-speaking locos and see what they think / what their plans are?
<rockstar> dholbach, English, by right, is so bad.
<leogg> dholbach, definetly
<bliZZardz> i german, spanish (and Indians) -- what about the french?????
<dholbach> leogg: gracias!
<leogg> dholbach, de nada :)
<dholbach> bliZZardz: I wondered the same - no french people are hanging out here!
<bliZZardz> *typo -- i see german, spanish (and Indians) -- what about the french?????
<dholbach> rockstar: it could we worse :)
<bliZZardz> dholbach : jai une parles francais
<bliZZardz> ;)
<dholbach> hehe, nice :)
<dholbach> but please hold off on translating the bug pages just yet - I guess they're going to be fixed in a couple of places in the next weeks
<dholbach> pedro_: is that right?
<dholbach> I guess there's going to be a separate announce about that
<rockstar> bliZZardz, mwen parl creole, et mwen comprends toi
<pedro_> yep that's correct
<bliZZardz> in built transliteration engine in LP?
<bliZZardz> rockstar : i prostrate,,,i know very basic francais :P
<rockstar> :)
<dholbach> I'm curious: who of you uses 5-a-day already? :)
 * techno_freak raises hand
<Nafallo> dholbach: the fruit thing?
<Nafallo> oh
<dholbach> (for those who don't: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day :-))
<Nafallo> nvm me
<bliZZardz> dholbach : i subscribe to that , but i sometimes exceed that limit on alternate days
<dholbach> Nafallo: hehehe
<dholbach> bliZZardz: oh... don't think of it as a limit! :)
<techno_freak> bliZZardz, it doesnt mean do *only* 5, it means do *at least* 5
<techno_freak> ;)
<dholbach> it'd be great to get as many people as possible signed up for it as possible
<bliZZardz> 5-a-day is a good NoS ...booster :)
<dholbach> as you can see on http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ we have team statistics too, so it'd be great to know more about the teams around the world that are 5-a-day'ing
<dholbach> also if you decide on a tag like "global-aug-2008-chile" or something, you'll know how many bugs people worked on during the event :)
<dholbach> but that's more of a side note - the most important thing is: have fun and enjoy working on bugs together
<dholbach> so how do we make it more fun? :-D
<bliZZardz> techno_freak : am afraid that In team is not surfacing  there - we need to raise the awareness more
<leogg> dholbach, pizza and beer :)
<bliZZardz> dholbach : t-shirts?
<dholbach> it'd be great to hear of all those fun stories around the globe
<nealmcb> leogg: +1
<techno_freak> bliZZardz, i haven't tagged myself or the tag got lost when i reinstalled last time
<dholbach> and see lots of pictures
<xander21c> dholbach: music, pizza and pisco
<leogg> hehe
<dholbach> xander21c: you remind me of Nicolas!
<dholbach> he was "pisco, pisco, pisco!" all over the place at UDS :-)
<xander21c> a nice banner and t-shirts
<pedro_> Peruvians they're always the same!
<pedro_> ahahah
<leogg> lol
<dholbach> haha :-)
 * pedro_ hugs xander21c
<dholbach> it's great to have you guys here :)
<bliZZardz> xander21c ,dholbach : yea.. t-shirts....wear it everywhere u go for the next 1 month (and dont wash it - get noticed :P )
<nealmcb> dholbach: you're a great inspiration!
<dholbach> you sure will :)
 * nealmcb hugs dholbach
<pedro_> btw diegoe (a Gnome guy) is exactly like that during GUADEC...
<dholbach> thanks a lot nealmcb :)
 * dholbach hugs nealmcb
<dholbach> it'd be nice if we could have (small) reports of the event later on
<dholbach> like How many people were there?
<xander21c> ï»¿bliZZardz: smelly notice :P
<dholbach> How many cups of coffee did you guys drink there?
<dholbach> How many candy bars?
<dholbach> How much Pisco?
<xander21c> lots of sugar
<dholbach> etc
<dholbach> and of course pictures, videos, blog entries, etc
<bliZZardz> dholbach : whats a Pisco?
<dholbach> bliZZardz: ask xander21c :)
<bliZZardz> xander21c : enlighten us plz
<dholbach> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisco
<bliZZardz> aha!!
<dholbach> :-)
<bliZZardz> who is coming to Chennai with a bottle of Pisco??? :P
<pedro_> Chilean Pisco see that's not from Peru
 * pedro_ runs away from xander21c
<xander21c> thanks dholbach, is a great drink, strong but dont make you sick at the other morning
<dholbach> OK... do we have any more questions? Other than finding out where to get what kind of alcohol?
<dholbach> :-)
<techno_freak> hehe
<bliZZardz> dholbach : come on...  :)
<leogg> hehe
<dholbach> if not, I'd suggest we adjourn the meeting here and maybe meet again a week before the Bug Jam - I'm sure that there are going to be much more open questions around that time
<bliZZardz> ok guys..so what is the action plan now??
<dholbach> what do you think?
<bliZZardz> someone wants to summarize things?
<dholbach> bliZZardz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RunningBugJam should have most of the information we talked about today
<dholbach> (of course minues the Pisco)
<techno_freak> dholbach, this meeting had better participation and newer ideas than last one, may be the next one after a week will be still better :)
<xander21c> dholbach: of course. Peruvian specially
<bliZZardz> techno_freak :yea...we will talk about varities of Pisco
<dholbach> techno_freak: I'll be on holidays in a week from now, that's why I suggested a week before the GBJ
<pedro_> lol
<bliZZardz> xander21c : hi5
<dholbach> but if you guys want to meet and announce it beforehand - that's great too
<techno_freak> dholbach, ah, I remember :)
<dholbach> if you have any questions, any advice or any other crazy ideas, please let me know
<dholbach> drop me an email: dholbach at ubuntu dot com
 * bliZZardz offers Dholbach a toast over an old pisco
<dholbach> I'd be really glad to make the organisation and documentation top-notch, tip-top and ready to go
<dholbach> thanks bliZZardz :-)
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody, I appreciated your input and ideas
<xander21c> GBJ it gone rock :)
 * dholbach hugs you all :-)
<pedro_> great, thanks you all!
<bliZZardz> neato...thanks all.
<leogg> thank you all, great meeting!
<techno_freak> thank you all, awesome  meeting :)
<Awsoonn> Thank you all~
<yuriy> thanks dholbach. i might bug you with questions as I get further with planning and recruiting
<dholbach> yuriy: perfect
<dholbach> thanks for that
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-05
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
<greg-g> with 10 minutes to go, anyone here coming to the How to Run a Bug Jam session?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: How to run a Bug Jam | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
<rick_h_> no <3 for greg-g  :(
<greg-g> guess not :)
<greg-g> 3 minutes till go time
<pep> "08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board" is twice in the topic by the way.. :)
<greg-g> popey: see above comment by pep
<greg-g> thanks pep
<pep> np :)
<pep> I'm already in the channel for the ubuntu-marketing meeting later tonight... I thought it might be interesting on the bugjam too
<greg-g> cool, welcome
<greg-g> well, it is time!
<pep> but I won't make the bugjam though as I have exams, so it's not a real participation :)
<greg-g> Hello everyone!  Welcome to the second session of "How to Run a Bug Jam"
<greg-g> my name is Greg Grossmeier and the leader of the Michigan (US) LoCo Team
<greg-g> how many people are here for the session?
<greg-g> raise your hands -   o/
 * cactaur raises
<Flannel> \o/
<greg-g> hello cactaur and Flannel representing California
<greg-g> well, if there is no one else we should get started
<greg-g> this is the main page we're going to use for coordinating the jam - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam
<greg-g> and this page is what we're going to discuss today  - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam/Prep
<greg-g> so, first thing first to remember is..
<greg-g> it doesn't matter how many bugs are triaged or how many people showed up, all that matters is that people have a good time
<greg-g> that is what gets people participating
<greg-g> so you should measure success by how good a time people had, and how you take notes to make things better next time, etc.
<greg-g> So, venues..
<greg-g> You need some place that has power, internet, and places to sit for everyone that is going to show up (obviously)
<greg-g> but, it also needs to be conducive to listening to one person talking for a little bit and asking questions
<greg-g> some good places are offices of Open Source Friendly businesses or even Library conference rooms (where Michigan had ours) or College/University rooms
<greg-g> so really, anywhere that is comfortable and conducive to group work.
<greg-g> (so many not a classroom if some people are afraid/scared from them ;) )
<greg-g> any questions on venues? or other suggestions before we move on?
<cactaur> Should the venues be places visible to others?
<cactaur> Like, where people might get interested in Ubuntu?
<greg-g> cactaur: they don't have to be, but they of course can be
<greg-g> you of course want your advertising for the event to be in public places to get outside interest
<greg-g> and promotion is the next topic :)
<greg-g> most of the get togethers for the michigan team have been more "private" than public, except for our release parties at pubs
<greg-g> for example our packaging jam was at someone's house and our bug jams have been at either college classrooms or library conference rooms
<greg-g> but that is just one way of doing it
<greg-g> any other questions on venues?
<cactaur> nah, that's good for me.
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> so the biggest thing to help with promotion is to ensure that your loco is on the wiki page
<greg-g> since we'll be blogging/twittering, and generally pointing people to that page
<greg-g> also, your local team mailing list
<greg-g> and your local lug(s) mailing list(s) is another place where you might want to send a mail
<greg-g> lots of LoCo people are also local LUG people so with that overlap it's easy to get the word out
<greg-g> other places to get the word out include local computer stores and shows
<greg-g> like, before they went out of business, our local CompUSA had a bulletin board where people could post stuff
<greg-g> and in general, blogging about it on planet ubuntu, your blog, twitter, etc. etc. is a good way to promote it
<greg-g> oh, your local area in the ubuntu forums if you have one
<greg-g> any other ideas for promotion techniques?
<greg-g> one idea from the last "howto" I ran was to get the local newspaper/magazine/radio station to help promote
<greg-g> have them come and cover the event and just ask that they mention it a few times before it happens to promote it
<greg-g> I've never done that personally, but it seems like it could work well
<greg-g> we (the michigan team) are going to try and do it for the GBJ and see how it goes
<greg-g> anything else for Promotion before we get to the "Pre-Bug Jam Checklist of Awesome"?
 * greg-g waits as copy/pasting is fast :)
<greg-g> ok..
<greg-g> Checklist of Awesome:
 * cactaur has nothign.
<greg-g> Checklist of Awesome:
<greg-g> whoops
<greg-g> First thing that is critical on the Checklist of Awesome is: ensuring everyone has a Launchpad Account
<greg-g> without that, the participants can't make any bugs better themselves
<greg-g> Checklist of Awesome number 2: 5-a-day preparedness
<greg-g> does everyone know what 5-a-day is?
<cactaur> 5 bugs a day?
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> 5-a-day is a way to have the amount of work you are doing on bugs to be recorded.  but not only for you, but your loco team as well
<greg-g> there are instructions at wiki.ubuntu.com/5-a-day
<greg-g> cactaur: did that answer your question?
<cactaur> yeah
<greg-g> it is a way to show progress for you and your team thus encouraging participation
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> Checklist of Awesome number 3: what package(s) does your group love?
<greg-g> to make things like this matter to the participants you don't want to triage bugs for a package no one uses.  Find popular packages that need some love, and get a list out for that package.  At the end of the day people will feel like they really helped
<HereBePython> greg-g, pedro said he will prepare a list of bug triage examples for as many categories of bugs as possible so new comers can have a look and learn
<greg-g> HereBePython: right on!
<HereBePython> and infact, add it to HowToTriage page ;)
<greg-g> good deal
<greg-g> thanks HereBePython
<HereBePython> :)
<greg-g> a good idea is to break up into groups of ~4 people who are interested in similar things to work together
<greg-g> Checklist of Awesome 4: irc channel for pasting links
<greg-g> make sure everyone knows where the loco's irc channel is and how to get on
<greg-g> and of course, #ubuntu-bugs will be rockin it during the GBJ with experienced triagers
<greg-g> so, loco specific questions can go in your channel while requests for help from the experienced people can go in -bugs
<greg-g> that is probably easier to do than setting up gobby etc
<greg-g> oh, and there should be at least one person in #ubuntu-bugs from your group to coordinate with everyone
<greg-g> we don't want another loco to come along and start working on the same list
<greg-g> so we'll use #ubuntu-bugs for your loco to say "we're working on foo!" or whatever
<greg-g> and, that Checklist of Awesome can be found on the GlobalBugJam/Prep wiki page.  So, go over that and send out instructions for the simple things before the day of the event
<greg-g> at a previous session someone asked/mentioned to set up GPG keys at the event...
<greg-g> those are not needed for triaging bugs, but if people want to set them up, that is fine.  Just know that a keysigning party can take a while :)
<greg-g> so, the rundown of the checklist:
<greg-g> Checklist of Awesome: 1) Launchpad 2) 5-a-day 3) Popular Packages 4) IRC channel information  5) FUN!
<greg-g> anthing else that you can think of that should go there?
<greg-g> so, running the Jam:
<greg-g> OK, so something we've had success with was a presenter go over a few examples so new people get an idea of what to do
<greg-g> if you have experienced triagers already there, you can break them off into groups with other peopole
<greg-g> so new people have an experienced person in their group to help them
<greg-g> or you can have one smart person up front answering questions
<greg-g> what we did is started working on our own list of bugs
<greg-g> and if someone had a question they would yell out the number, and then the person connected to the projector would load it up
<greg-g> and we would look through it, and decide what to do
<greg-g> And as HereBePython just let us know, pedro will have a list of good example bugs to go through as a group if you want
<greg-g> at the very minimum, if you get lost, frustrated, or it's turning into a disaster, you can always concentrate on just teaching people little things.
<greg-g> I suspect we'll get a few reports that start off with "We started triaging and then decided to go to the pub instead."
<greg-g> So whatever works for you. :D
<greg-g> Does Running the Bug Jam make sense now?
<pep> I found it very instructive
<pep> even for later bugjams
<greg-g> I have one more section too :)
<greg-g> pep: yeah, this is just general advice really
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jul 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<greg-g> not specific to the GBJ, but to Bug Jams in general
<pep> yeah
<greg-g> But yeah, after the bug jam be sure to put up pictures and blog it
<greg-g> and of course, Plan Future Bug Jams ! :)
<greg-g> from my experience it is a good way to get participation from your community by being a low enough bar for entry that more people will show up
<greg-g> thus, having a good time and going out for socializing after (beers) is a good idea
<greg-g> and with that, if there are no more questions/comments/suggestions, this is the end of the HowTo
<cactaur> greg-g: Should our bug jams span the whole 3 days? Or would just doing it one of the days also work?
<pep> yeah... I am going to investigate 5-a-day a little more on my side...
<greg-g> cactaur: good question.  A one time event sometime during that span is probably good for a physical bug jam.  of course you are welcome to continue to coordiante virtually the rest of the span
<greg-g> pep: 5-a-day is a good way to encourage your team's participation, I have found
<greg-g> anything else?
<pep> yeah.. but I have seen people reluctant to the system because they knew they wouldn't be able to triage 5 bugs a day... but this is on a more general basis really...
<greg-g> pep: yeah, I can see that, but really, just do how much you can
<greg-g> I havne't been doing 5 a day lately (MUCH less) but I am still participating
<pep> well 5 bugs a day is ok, but 5 bugs a day *every* day is the part that scares ;-)
<pep> but I suppose as long as you participate it has a sense
<greg-g> pep: right
<greg-g> it is just that 5-a-day sounds better than As-many-as-you-can-each-week ;)
<pep> yeah :)
<greg-g> anything else?
<pep> not for me
<pep> from*
<greg-g> Well, thank you everyone for showing up and I hope this has helped you plan for a Great Bug Jam!
<greg-g> you are of course welcome to ping me in #ubuntu-us-mi if you have any other questions/comments
<pep> thank you!
<greg-g> you're welcome!
<Grantbow> so the logs are here?  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<greg-g> Grantbow: correct
<greg-g> for this channel and other channels related to Ubuntu
 * greg-g goes back to -us-mi
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Marketing | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<owh> Hello all.
<pep> Hello
<bbyever> hi
<owh> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is owh.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<owh> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing monthly meeting. The agenda for today is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings/Agendas/2008-07-05
<owh> Our first point of discussion are the minutes for last month's meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-07
<owh> Is everyone happy with that?
<pep> jupp
<owh> Can I have a person to second that?
<Flannel> I'll second
<owh> [AGREED] Meeting minutes for 2008-06-07 accepted as is.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Meeting minutes for 2008-06-07 accepted as is.
<owh> First action item from last month:  hubuntu and pep to investigate spreadubuntu.com and report to the list.
<pep> Yes.
<owh> Give us an update if you will.
<pep> We have advanced, everything is viewable here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu
<pep> There is the wiki, the mailing list archive, and the discussions held.
<Flannel> We've been in contact with the old chairpersons from the various projects that were related to spreadubuntu
<pep> In short: we are taking the project back, called SU, composed of a diy and a Site part.
<pep> Yes, old involved have been contacted.
<owh> What kind of reception did you receive?
<pep> From the old team, we got one web developer motivate d to help so that's good news
<pep> we got very positive reception
<pep> as well as permission to delete the two old projects on launchpad end start again from scratch
<pep> This is in process
<Flannel> The new design is roughly: We have the DIY site (diy.spreadubuntu.com) that will be the repository of materials for various teams and people in general,
<pep> projects are awaiting deletion from LP staff.
<bbyever> I found a bazr branch with stuff related to SU
<owh> Are there things that the Ubuntu Marketing team can provide to assist?
<Flannel> and then the spreadubuntu.com site will be an "about" sort of site, explaining about Ubuntu, and linux, and things like that
<bbyever> bzr
<bbyever> here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-marketing/+branches?field.lifecycle=ALL&field.lifecycle-empty-marker=1&field.sort_by=by+project+name&field.sort_by-empty-marker=1
<pep> bbyever: yes, it is old code, when Su was supposed to be written for wordpress.
<pep> as well as for another cms
<bbyever> pep: is it any use?
<Flannel> bbyever: Theres actually a few old branches of varying completion
<pep> no, I talked with the main contributor Dan Buch (who wrote almost everything) and he thought like me: delete and start again
<owh> Was there any indication on why the project was abandoned?
<Flannel> bbyever: We're taking bits an pieces of each, mostly design related.  The code itself will depend on what we decide to actually use
<Flannel> owh: Lack of interest, attrition, etc.
<bbyever> Flannel, pep: ok
<Flannel> Or rather, lack of time for the people interested
<owh> Are there any questions from the floor about pep and Flannel's summary?
<pep> Yes, I suppose interest to develop just fell.
<owh> On to the next item.
<Flannel> owh: As per your "What can Marketing do"  The "spreadubuntu.com" section will be put together by the marketing team.  We're hoping to reach out to new users, etc.
<Flannel> owh: So, it'll be a lot of writing content targetting "regular people"
<owh> Cool. I'll volunteer for that when the time comes ;-)
<owh> Moving on. We'll skip the hubuntu booking, since we're here :)
<pep> Flannel: that's talking about the "Site" part right?
<owh> [Topic] Summarise list discussion about team structure proposals
<MootBot> New Topic:  Summarise list discussion about team structure proposals
<Flannel> pep: Thats the spreadubuntu part, not the diy part, yeah.
<pep> ah yes, srry
<pep> (still asleep)
<owh> I've not seen any proposals to the list beyond the one that JV provided. Is this now a moot point?
<Flannel> owh: I don't believe theres been any follow up on that either.  The parties involved may have lost interest
<pep> I don't believe the need for a restructuring so urgent personally...
<pep> +1 Flannel
<owh> Any counter opinions, since we had a rather large discussion about it last meeting and on the list?
<pep> I don't understand why nobody showed up tonight since it seemed to worry many people...
<Flannel> owh: I believe that renders the next agenda topic moot as well.
<Flannel> Or at least, if it is the case
<owh> [Idea] No requirement to change the team structure. No need for a leader. Continue as a collective.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  No requirement to change the team structure. No need for a leader. Continue as a collective.
<owh> Does that cover it?
<pep> Good for me.
<bbyever> +1
<Flannel> +1
<owh> [Agreed] No requirement to change the team structure. No need for a leader. Continue as a collective.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  No requirement to change the team structure. No need for a leader. Continue as a collective.
<owh> We can skip the voting.
<owh> Right, onto bbyever's topic.
<owh> [Topic] Decide what projects will be taken into action and actually start them.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Decide what projects will be taken into action and actually start them.
<owh> bbyever: Over to you.
<bbyever> thanks
<bbyever> ï»¿well, there are many projects started, but i've only seen focus in SU... will we all concentrate on SU right now, or will the others also be taken into action
<owh> Which other projects are you talking about?
<Flannel> I don't see a reason why others wouldn't be considered.  We just only have one (SU) currently to my knowledge
<bbyever> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects
<pep> Well any projects are still viable
<pep> people just need to *do* them
<Flannel> bbyever: The firefox menu bar seemed to be met with some enthusiasm, but I believe Mr Botscharow has had his freetime reduced
<pep> wow, my name is in there o.O
<owh> The plug-in can be simply created using a custom google search IIRC.
<pep> Concerning diy: I believe the project is active, interested people should join the team on launchpad and the mailing list, I actually wanted to wait for the 2 old projects to be deleted and the new one to be created in launchpad to announce it to the list.
<Flannel> bbyever: A lot of the Projects listed on that page are old.  That doesn't mean they need to be removed, or stopped, merely that no one currently is championing them
<owh> I started one, but google refused to do a custom search with anything other than my private google gmail address.
<bbyever> ok, so maybe we should update the page to reflect actual activity?
<pep> well apart from the projects statuses, it reflects it ok...
<Flannel> bbyever: It may be pertinent to change their status, or have a deferred section for projects.  An Active table and an inactive table.
<bbyever> ok
<owh> What about the discussions we had last month. Nothing in that is actually directly doing what we said we would be doing.
<Flannel> owh: The spreadubuntu project is.
<pep> yes
 * owh hunts for a suitable copy/paste.
<pep> I think it is too...
<Flannel> owh: I assume you're referring to helping the LoCos etc do their thing?
<owh> Yup
<Flannel> owh: The DIY section of the spreadubuntu project does just that.
<owh> Ah, you're sneeky :)
<owh> I forgot :)
<owh> Fine. So, where does this leave bbyever's topic?
<bbyever> i had something else...
<pep> well we're not al concentrating on SU
<owh> A new topic bbyever?
<Flannel> I think we should update the statuses of those projects to reflect their current activity.
<pep> Yeah
<bbyever> no, just like a sub point in my topic
<owh> Cool Flannel. Any volunteers?
<owh> bbyever: Bring it on :)
<Flannel> They shouldn't be removed, because they have good ideas, and hopefully can be seen to fruition.
<bbyever> ï»¿i thought maybe it would be better in terms of organization, to assign (or update the current assignments of projects) to people who are interested in helping out
<owh> What about adding a column that points to a progress report Flannel?
<pep> The question is if people are active in our team, a part from SU working group. Maybe if they see that this SU is active, it will motivate others to start off other projects again, we are enough to do several once imo...
<owh> bbyever: Well, when someone actively takes up such a role, that would be when that changes, would it not?
<pep> ones*
<Flannel> owh: I think the Status table covers that.  Also, each subsection (each Project) should include a checklist/todo list
<bbyever> ok
<owh> Flannel: How do you want to "encourage" that?
<Flannel> I agree with pep.  Activity begets activity
<pep> yes
<owh> Flannel: I mean, the "check list/todo".
<Flannel> owh: We should probably write up a quick "How to Start a Project" paragraph for that page
<owh> That's what I was looking for :)
<owh> You volunteering?
<Flannel> I don't mind heading it up, sure.
<owh> [Idea] Flannel to write a "How to Start a Project" paragraph for the UM/Projects page.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Flannel to write a "How to Start a Project" paragraph for the UM/Projects page.
<owh> Happy with that?
<Flannel> +1
<pep> As soon as SU is ready, in a couple of days imo... somebody could write an encouraging email to the list... taking example on SU to encourage other projects of the marketing team..
<pep> +1
<owh> [Agreed] Flannel to write a "How to Start a Project" paragraph for the UM/Projects page.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Flannel to write a "How to Start a Project" paragraph for the UM/Projects page.
<owh> Does that leave anything that's open?
<pep> don't forget to mail i tto the list too... not sure that many check out the wiki very often
<Flannel> pep: We'll work that out on our own
<owh> That's more of an SU update really isn't it?
<owh> bbyever: Are you happy with the outcome of that?
<Flannel> yeah, and the SU project will take care of it
<pep> yeah, I suppose... even if it covers the same role in a way
<bbyever> yep
<owh> [Topic] Other Issues
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Issues
<owh> Any one got anything they wish to air?
<owh> I'll add one. We should be actively providing status updates to the list to encourage activity.
<bbyever> +1
<pep> I find that we're not using the wiki enough too...
<owh> Perhaps once a week, a single paragraph of what we did.
<Flannel> Once a week is probably too frequent
<owh> pep: You mean to document things?
<bbyever> once every 2 weeks would be fine imho
<owh> Is this going to be a personal update, or a project update?
<pep> I mean in general for workflow and organization... task lists, todos, project descriptions, etc... I have the feeling it could be used better... but the source is probably a motivation/interest lack...
<Flannel> It'll move at a different pace for most projects.  Whoever chairs said projects should have a good feel for how frequently they should be updating
<pep> or just report substantial updates in a project...
<owh> pep: To do that, you need to create infrastructure and put policies in place, otherwise it will not happen.
<Flannel> yeah, a bunch of reports of "nothing much happened" isnt going to spur activity
<bbyever> owh: i'd say project update
<owh> Flannel: Can you add that to the paragraph you're writing?
<Flannel> owh: I'll be sure to include it
<Flannel> and pep, I'll mention keeping your wiki updated too
<owh> So, is there anything else exciting happening in the UM sphere?
<owh> [Idea] Projects should provide regular updates to the UM list.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Projects should provide regular updates to the UM list.
<pep> Ok (I hope to be working alot with the wiki in an effective way for SU)
<pep> I can't think of anything else...
<owh> Everyone cool with that idea?
<pep> +1
<bbyever> +1
<owh> [Agreed] Projects should provide regular updates to the UM list.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Projects should provide regular updates to the UM list.
<owh> [Topic] Next meeting, time and place.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting, time and place.
<bbyever> could i say something else
<Flannel> First Saturday of next month is the second
<owh> Other than that I'll be on a stage MC-ing a few hours later, it's good for me :)
<owh> bbyever: Of course.
<owh> [Idea] Next meeting: 2 August 21:00 UTC
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Next meeting: 2 August 21:00 UTC
<bbyever> ï»¿someone posted something about an ubuntu desktop course, which seemed interesting to me. i investigated and it seems the project is inactive... i was wondering if we could take it into the markeitng team and revive it, what do you think?
<pep> +1, no reason for change....
<owh> [Agreed] Next meeting: 2 August 21:00 UTC
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Next meeting: 2 August 21:00 UTC
<pep> sure bbyever, you are welcome to take up the lead of this project if it really is inactive!
<Flannel> bbyever: What is an "Ubuntu Desktop Course"?
<bbyever> let me find the link...
<pep> it seems close enough to a marketing activity to me... :)
<bbyever> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop-course
<owh> Remember, the idea is not for us to start writing marketing materials, but to coordinate other people's efforts so everyone benefits.
<owh> Uh, that's not right.
<owh> Carry on :)
<Flannel> Just in passing, I'd like to mention that Global Bug Jam is coming up on August 8-10, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam  You might want to touch base with your LoCos and see if you can participate
<owh> bbyever: Perhaps, rather than "take ownership", join the group and start helping?
<bbyever> well sent a mail to Torsten Spindler asking about the activity of the project and he hasnt replyed..
<bbyever> that was like 5 days ago
<bbyever> i also sent a mail to their list and havent recived a reply
<owh> What about other contributors?
<pep> mhh..; give him another two days and contact another main contributor...
<pep> how about you report us about this project for next meeting, or on the list as soon as you know more?
<bbyever> there hasnt been any activity in 9 weeks
<owh> bbyever: Remember, some people may be doing completely different things and may not be "Ubuntu" 24/7
<Flannel> bbyever: He was on IRC a week ago
<owh> bbyever: That's not a dead project, just slow :)
<bbyever> ok, i'll try to contact more people in the project and i'll report back ehre
<bbyever> here*
<pep> yeah... looks not completely dead to me to...
<owh> [Idea] bbyever to report back on the Ubuntu Desktop Course
<MootBot> IDEA received:  bbyever to report back on the Ubuntu Desktop Course
<owh> Also, note that there is a set of ubuntu course material flying around.
<owh> bbyever: You happy with reporting back next month?
<bbyever> yep
<owh> [Action] bbyever to report back on the Ubuntu Desktop Course
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bbyever to report back on the Ubuntu Desktop Course
<owh> As we say in holland: Een Maal, Andermaal verkocht.
<owh> That is, going once, going twice, sold :)
<owh> Thanks in advance to bbyever for being our scribe today.
<bbyever> np
<owh> Thank you all for attending today.
<owh> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:44.
<owh> WhooT!
<pep> quick
<pep> :)
<owh> No IRC interruptions, no fights, all good :)
<pep> yeah
<owh> Right, so lets get on with it :)
<pep> owh: are you up-to-date with SU?
<pep> now that we meet :)
<owh> We should move to #u-m to continue this conversation.
<pep> yeah!
<pep> true!
<bbyever> ok
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC:  Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 08 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-06-29
 * doctormo waves
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:01. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> thanks cprofitt
<cprofitt> Welcome to the Ubuntu Learning Project Meeting
<cprofitt> roll call please -- just say here
<pleia2> here
<doctormo> here
<DougieRichardson> here
<cprofitt> thank you...
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Licensing
<MootBot> New Topic: Licensing
<doctormo> Still waiting on SFLC, they have been contacted right?
<pleia2> still paused, I spoke with dinda a couple days ago and gave her the email addys of all of the board members
<cprofitt> has there been any progress on this? Has anyone contacted the SFLC?
<pleia2> doctormo: not contacted, we're waiting for the intro from Canonical
<doctormo> Is it worth going to them directly?
<cprofitt> thanks pleia2
<cprofitt> I really have to reiterate that before we can move forward we have to have this part nailed down
<cprofitt> it impacts learners, instructors and other potential users of the courseware
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> cprofitt: AFAIC it's pretty much was nailed by the position of canonical resourcing and their no NC previso.
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Approval Process for Courses
<MootBot> New Topic:  Approval Process for Courses
<cprofitt> This is a hold over topic from three weeks ago...
<popey> here
<cprofitt> and it really depends on what our structure ends up being
<pleia2> last week we said it was paused until we get governance sorted
<cprofitt> but I think we need to work on an approval process for courses...
<cprofitt> review the content... quality, accuracy, etc.
<doctormo> It's shouldn't be too hard, we'd need agreement from Vantrax and bodi on these issue though
<cprofitt> doctormo, on the NC part?
<doctormo> OK do we have a staging site, or a source repository where this stuff is then compiled into moodle courses?
<bodhi_zazen> :)
<cprofitt> I believe bodhi_zazen has a staging site
<doctormo> No on the governance
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, is that accuracy?
<cprofitt> doctormo, we are not on the governance discussion yet
<cprofitt> still on approval
<cprofitt> it was more of a 'Hey, lets think about this'
<cprofitt> than an action style item
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Structure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Structure
<cprofitt> Last meeting a draft page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure - was put up
<cprofitt> and people were asked to contribute their thoughts to what they wanted the structure to be...
<cprofitt> there have been no modifications to this page
<cprofitt> so I will ask again the people contribute their thoughts to this page
<cprofitt> currently we have a board, but nothing else beyond that for strucutre
<popey> the page isnt exactly very explanitory
<cprofitt> we need to have a method / process for approval of new members
<cprofitt> we are willing to entertain alternate leadership structures
<pleia2> cprofitt: maybe you can send an email to the list with that link and more details asking for contributions?
<popey> pleia2: +1
<cprofitt> popey, yes... I made it very open on that account
<cprofitt> I did not want to 'limit'
<cprofitt> is the mailing list functional now?
<pleia2> yes
<popey> you dont have to limit, just set expectations
<pleia2> that's what I send the meeting reminder out on :)
<pleia2> s/send/sent
<cprofitt> popey, I do not even have expectations for this.. to be honest
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: I have a "test" moodle server
<bodhi_zazen> at learn.bodhizazen.net
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, I thought so...
<cprofitt> thanks for hosting that bodhi_zazen
<pleia2> cprofitt: I think he means expecations as far as "why do we need structure, what are our duties that require all this, etc"
<doctormo> cprofitt: What kind of approval, course approval should work same as code approval, a group of commiters and anyone else can make modifications and doesn't need any say so
<popey> y
<popey> YES
<cprofitt> I will try to take a look at how others teams are structured and point people to those examples... and give people some areas we need to build strucutre
<popey> -caps
<cprofitt> doctormo, well with courses there will be two parts...
<cprofitt> the technical accuracy
<cprofitt> and the educational quality
<bodhi_zazen> team structure and governance will be more then approving courses and content
<cprofitt> a course could be technically correct, but terrible at conveying the information to a new user
<cprofitt> we need both
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, I agree
<popey> cprofitt: isnt that self-correcting?
<popey> do the doc team do that? (I dont think so)
<cprofitt> they were commenting on a different topic
<bodhi_zazen> the issues come up when either there is a disagreement between members or a disruptive member
<bodhi_zazen> LOL
<doctormo> But we do need to consider progressibe patching and updating of all course material
<cprofitt> popey, the doc team documents...
<cprofitt> writing a pedagogic document people are meant to learn from goes beyond that
<popey> yes, they create content in the same way you are going to do - or at least very similar?
<cprofitt> you have to give people exercises and connect bits of technical knowledge to application
<popey> sure
<pleia2> cprofitt: I know we want quality matieral, but I'm certainly of the camp of as much freedom and as few "hoops to jump through" to contribute as possible
<cprofitt> I am not an educator, but work with them... and there is an art that elevates content to being of high value in the learning process
<pleia2> proper grammar would be neat
<popey> but i dont see that there needs to be someone to sign it off any more than there is for an application which technically correctly implements a protcol, or uses a service
<cprofitt> they use what they call rubrics
<doctormo> pleia2: contributing shouldn't have any hoops, it's publishing that needs a couple of checks
<cprofitt> I am still working on getting a curriculum writer to come on board with us
<cprofitt> popey, there is a need for us to approve the course
<pleia2> doctormo: "a couple of checks" is fine but I fear too much structure will turn into an insane approval process for any course
<cprofitt> as this is not being represented as a simple public wiki
<popey> sounds like it could suffer from design by committee
<bodhi_zazen> I think we should encourage participation but there needs to be some kind of training / education / approval process to courses
<bodhi_zazen> IMO
<cprofitt> it is a 'course' and the project team should have that stand for something more than "its there"
<doctormo> pleia2: I'd vote down anything more than what we do in the code world for code quality, structural semblence and correctness
<pleia2> I think we just need to find a balance that yields quality material and doesn't scare off contributors
<cprofitt> +1 pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> every team I know of has such things, wiki team has standards, MOTU has more formal training
<cprofitt> again... I was raising this as more of an FYI -- something for us to think about
<popey> ok
<pleia2> cprofitt: *nod*
<Vantrax> sorry I was running late to work this mornin
<Vantrax> did I miss anything particularly interesting?
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: You don't have to be in the wiki team to edit the wiki and you don't have to be a MOTU to have a PPA or LP project
<bodhi_zazen> That is not the same thing doctormo
<bodhi_zazen> we are not a ppa
<bodhi_zazen> ppa != universe repositories
<RoboNuggie> ........ thanks Pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> and the wiki team will remove poor quality pages
<Vantrax> doctormo: as I understand it we have a specific outline that we want courses to be written for, and we want to keep some semblence of order and uniformity
<doctormo> I know, that's why I'm suggesting a distinction be made between course creation and patching, and publication
<cprofitt> Lets move on... we all have to think about course approval... and I am glad that we are thinking about it...
<bodhi_zazen> I think a lack of standards or some kind of process will be problematic
<cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
<cprofitt> we need to have high standards
<doctormo> cprofitt: Can you bring this up outside of meeting too, during a hack session and we can iron out that document?
<cprofitt> doctormo, yes
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Theme / Branding
<MootBot> New Topic:  Theme / Branding
<cprofitt> http://www.professionallearningboard.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.professionallearningboard.com/
<cprofitt> that is an example site of a professional Moodle site and company
<bodhi_zazen> Vantrax: was working on branding, do not know if he needs assistance :)
<Vantrax> lol
<cprofitt> doctormo, this is your topic...
<doctormo> Sure
<Vantrax> mo is working on branding, im just having a go at hacking up a theme
<doctormo> I've done a few bits of branding so far, people have been happy, I'd like some feedback but also
<doctormo> ... I want agreement to create a few sized images, animated or not which will be used to link from people's blogs to our learning website when done
<pleia2> sounds great
<doctormo> And I'll need a page, static, with which we can put all these bits and bobs on and invite community to market for us
<pleia2> (not animated please :))
<cprofitt> what are your thought on the PLB site I linked too?
<cprofitt> http://www.professionallearningboard.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.professionallearningboard.com/
<doctormo> It's good
<doctormo> I like the basic introductory page
<doctormo> Some nice big page, anyone want to go into a photo for the main index page? :-P
<cprofitt> doctormo, I would think that would be a good thing...
<Vantrax> oh, good point
<cprofitt> in our case I would like to see a 'student', a 'business person', a 'technican' and a 'developer'
<doctormo> I have a classroom, I'll get some pictures done :-)
<cprofitt> I think that would be a nice fit... yes?
<Vantrax> the index page im working on rotates pictures that are in the theme folder
<cprofitt> Vantrax, that would be nice too...
<Vantrax> so we can put a few pictures in
<doctormo> Vantrax: A lot of the moodle themes I've seen are too busy and complex
<Vantrax> there are some samples in the test one
<cprofitt> can we have a rotating set of images that display four at once like the PLB site?
<doctormo> Vantrax: Is the base one we've got simple enough for our needs?
<Vantrax> doctormo: yes
<Vantrax> cprofitt: no, thats too complicated
<cprofitt> really?
<bodhi_zazen> could probably do it with a php script
<cprofitt> I would think 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
<doctormo> Vantrax: Can we put it as an action to get together with me at a time of your choosing to get me set up with the code base and you can run me down with theme creation?
<cprofitt> in a square...
<doctormo> Then we can work together on it
<cprofitt> have each one be a 'type' and images rotated through based on that type
<Vantrax> doctormo: im putting the code base I have into ubuntu one atm
<cprofitt> I did something like that in ASP.Net
<Vantrax> basically its header, rotating picture, dynamic menu, then normal theme
<doctormo> Vantrax: into "Ubuntu One" sharing serivce?
<cprofitt> OK... that seems well in hand...
<Vantrax> year
<Vantrax> yer
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Co-Ordinated Release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Co-Ordinated Release
<cprofitt> your topic again doctormo
<doctormo> Any plans on releasing blog posts and other marketing push when we have the legals and theming done?
<doctormo> We can't release after we have content, but we do need to think about talking to the wider community and getting them involved.
<pleia2> my work so far has centered around contacting and discussing with existing teams in Ubuntu
<pleia2> (which created the contact list on the front page)
<cprofitt> I think, on a quick take, that we have two release points...
<cprofitt> 1)  Ready for contributors
<cprofitt> 2)  Ready for learners (actual release)
<Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
<doctormo> cprofitt: +1
<Vantrax> soon as we have a theme running we can do the announcment for contributors
<doctormo> I'm taking about ready for contributors
 * Vantrax is sorry for holding that up
<doctormo> No we need legal too
<pleia2> Vantrax: you still have a blog entry queued up for release when we're sorted legally, right?
<cprofitt> for that we need to get all the legal stuff settled
<cprofitt> so we know what license(s) we will accept
<Vantrax> yes pleia2
<cprofitt> there may be some leeway in allowing authors to choose within certain licenses
<cprofitt> or there may not be
 * DougieRichardson waves to dinda
<cprofitt> until we know that it would be difficult to 'recruit' authors
 * dinda waves to Dougie et al
<cprofitt> I also think we have our training course (uploaded already) tested and ready to run
<cprofitt> other thoughts?
<bodhi_zazen> +1
 * cprofitt waves to dinda 
<doctormo> cprofitt: Need all core members trained on that, see next entry
<bodhi_zazen> we can make a "Sandbox" on the test server
<MontelEdwards> what meeting is this?
<dinda> I highly recommend a sandbox
<doctormo> MontelEdwards: Ubuntu Community Learning Project
<cprofitt> so... we really need to have Canonical (aka dinda) get us introduced to SFLC
<RoboNuggie> Will the training course be accredited in any way?
<MontelEdwards> doctormo, oh, i see.
<dinda> I've learned a great deal just this last week playing in our Moodle sandbox
<bodhi_zazen> I will set up a sandbox on the test server then ;)
<doctormo> RoboNuggie: No
<dinda> cprofitt: I sent the email back to our attorney asking for the invite but then our attorney went on holiday for a week
<cprofitt> dinda, ok... thanks
<cprofitt> I guess even lawyers are allowed time off
<cprofitt> :-)
<pleia2> hehe
<doctormo> dinda: Is it worth getting in touch with them directly?
<Vantrax> RoboNuggie: that is the reason for canonical's training
<dinda> yeah lots of folks slacking off this week
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Core Staff
<MootBot> New Topic:  Core Staff
<cprofitt> I have one serious question under this topic...
<dinda> doctormo: yes, you are free to contact them directly
<doctormo> dinda: Aye free to, but is it a good idea
<cprofitt> we do not have a structure or policy yet for members... but I think we need to consider dropping everyone that has not been active in these meetings...
<cprofitt> from the 'TEAM'
<dinda> doctormo: can't see why not, you don't have to go any further than asking them basic questions, seeing if its worth prusuing
<cprofitt> and then when we develop a process for membership we can invite people to join
<cprofitt> I think we were far too loose with that in the first place
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: are you suggesting that people need to make a certain number of meetings to be members of the team ?
<cprofitt> though that will be tough to correct for fear of bent feelings
<dinda> cprofitt: you might want to think about a tiered system ala the doc team. . . and others
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, no
<cprofitt> I am not suggesting that at all.
 * bodhi_zazen listens
<cprofitt> I am suggesting that currently we have members that have not been involved in anyway
<cprofitt> and we have no structure for members
<doctormo> I would not remove people fromt he 'team', there is no such thing
<bodhi_zazen> yes, that will be an issue with any volunteer team :)
<dinda> there's a larger public group all can join, then more limited leadership or steering teams with 'commit' access or other
<doctormo> There is no such thing as members
<cprofitt> so it may be best to drop all of them... (launchpad)
<doctormo> dinda: +1
<cprofitt> and then after we setup the structure we can follow it to have 'members'
<pleia2> dinda: +1
<cprofitt> dinda, that would be a good suggestion too...
<cprofitt> not removing, but form different upper level teams
<cprofitt> for now the only other level would be 'board'
<doctormo> ubuntu-learning-commitors?
<cprofitt> we may eventually need (when we have it set) Authors, Instructors, Reviewers...
<bodhi_zazen> I like dinda's general suggestion, call it what you want doctormo "team" "members" "elite" what have you
<cprofitt> we have time to come up with the titles...
<bodhi_zazen> +1 ; team structure FTW
<cprofitt> but we need to be more careful in the future... and the team must follow any guidelines we establish for membership
<dinda> cprofitt: were you worried that absent members might hurt the group somehow?
<doctormo> cprofitt: I don't believe that we have made an error in the past
<pleia2> cprofitt: this is probably all related to our Structure document that we're going to follow up with on-list
<cprofitt> dinda, it is not about absent members
<bodhi_zazen> we are unlikely to come up with a document that will not need to be revised cprofitt
<bodhi_zazen> keep it general
<cprofitt> but we will have people that have more specific skills
<cprofitt> like bug-control
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, I agree revision appears to happen even in countries several hundred years old... we will be no different
<dinda> I've found it harder to setup proper 'roles' in the Moodle system than others I've worked with. . .
<cprofitt> I would not want a person that has authored no courses being put on the 'authors' team
<bodhi_zazen> but there needs to be roles defied and a process for attaining and if necessary removing people from roles 9either they give the post up, move on, absence, disruptive, etc, etc)
<cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
<dinda> it's been tricky to give folks the proper system level vs. course level roles in order to do what they need in the system
<bodhi_zazen> I suggest we start with a few "basics"
<cprofitt> that is all I am talking about... sorry if my language does not convey my meaning accurately
<cprofitt> I see this team being more like bug-control
<dinda> so you might want to think about how roles map to membership
<bodhi_zazen> authors, instructors, steudent, admins
<cprofitt> with a central team (for those interested) and specialized teams that membership is attained and reviewed in
<dinda> correct, the ones I've struggled with are course creator and non-editing teacher
<bodhi_zazen> how so dinda ?
<dinda> I wanted to have course creators make the courses but not be the instructor/teacher
<dinda> it turns out if I gave folks that role then they couldn't see certain key files
<cprofitt> dinda, that is possible
<cprofitt> I will ask the PLB folks for some advice
<dinda> I ended up having to make almost everyone, including course reviewers a temporary instructor
<cprofitt> dinda, in case you missed the link - http://www.professionallearningboard.com/
<doctormo> Student, Teacher? All teachers are students and visa versa, that role is redundent I think.
<cprofitt> I wrote a course for them over a year ago and they have authors and instructors... as two different groups
<Vantrax> i think that is a good idea cprofitt
<pleia2> doctormo: officially within moodle there are defined roles
<dinda> doctormo: true, but each role means something different for Moodle
<cprofitt> doctormo, not in terms of a moodle course
<doctormo> Aye, this is a problem we will have for moodle
<bodhi_zazen> LOL doctormo
<Vantrax> I know a few people that will write, but dont want to actually instruct and vice versa
<cprofitt> you do not want a 'student' modifying the course
<cprofitt> Vantrax, exactly
<cprofitt> some people may have the time to be an instructor, but not feel they have the skill to write a course
<doctormo> Of course, no one should be able to create courses but for those in the commitors/authors team
<cprofitt> and others have the ability to write a course but not be an instructor
<cprofitt> I will ask PLB
<cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt to ask PLB how to make instructors and authors as two different groups
<bodhi_zazen> doctormo: well that is what we are discussing, or are you suggesting students have admin and teaching responsibilities as well ?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt to ask PLB how to make instructors and authors as two different groups
<bodhi_zazen> there really need to be some kind of structure, a free for all will not work
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Open Floor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Floor
<dinda> cprofitt: that is supposedly the role of course creator - to design/develop but not teach a course
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: My problem would be if students did not have access to the entire course material in order for them to take up teaching
<cprofitt> we have 13 minutes left...
<doctormo> I would like annon teaching
<cprofitt> does anyone have any other topics they wish to have addressed?
<doctormo> cprofitt: yes, my last entry on the agenda
<bodhi_zazen> ro access is not the same as rw access and to be honest I do not know the roles in moodle that well
<bodhi_zazen> you can make custom roles or curtomize existing ones
<cprofitt> that was our last topic doctormo
<dinda> fyi:  http://www.goshen.edu/moodle/index.html
<dinda> the next upcoming Moodle Moot - I'm considering going
<cprofitt> please feel free to address it more... as I appeared to hi-jack it on you
<doctormo> What about the one detailing how we are going to teach each other all required things, such as the moodle course it's self and other useful stuff?
<pleia2> dinda: northern indiana? sigh :)
 * pleia2 wants to go somewhere exciting!
<dinda> pleia2: tell me about it - i was hoping for the bahamas or something nice ;)
<bodhi_zazen> doctormo: I think the whole project is quite large, and thus a team effort will be required :)
<bodhi_zazen> Does anyone have any thoughts one way or another about moving to hosting with Canonical ?
<bodhi_zazen> Rather then my server ?
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: Don't do it! It's a trap! :-D
<dinda> lol
<bodhi_zazen> That is what I thought doctormo :)
<dinda> bodhi_zazen: you might want to make a list of pros and cons
<bodhi_zazen> the questions would be:
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: Moving to Canonical hosting would force our legal hand, we wouldn't be allowed NC.
<pleia2> doctormo: what?
<bodhi_zazen> 1. may be require for learn.ubuntu.com
<dinda> would also need to have roles in Moodle defined as clearly as possible
<pleia2> doctormo: canonical doesn't care about our license
<bodhi_zazen> there is that too doctormo
<doctormo> dinda: Can you confirm, I thought the policy was no restrictive content hosting.
<bodhi_zazen> 2. Would be access to server (ie root)
<bodhi_zazen> root access is probably extremely helpful as we get set up
<dinda> doctormo: elmo recommended (with his ex-cc hat) that the license be cc-by-sa
<bodhi_zazen> Once we are up and established, probably not as critical
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: oh, have you had your meeting with the sysadmins yet?
<bodhi_zazen> no not yet :)
<pleia2> I think we should hold off some discussion until questions asked at our last meeting are answered :)
<pleia2> so we're not all sitting around speculating further
<doctormo> dinda: So I was mistaken? I thought there was a question over weather none open source content was permitted. Seemed it wasn't.
<dinda> would recommend getting the policies for Moodle roles and also theme, other global settings changed.
<bodhi_zazen> I did get an offer to assist with sys admin, which is awesome
<cprofitt> I agree... we need to get the legal questions answered
<cprofitt> debates and speculation between us do not move us forward
<dinda> I put in a request on our server to have the Book Module installed and no idea when that might happen
<dinda> so admin requests can be really slow once the system in under Canonical control
<bodhi_zazen> That would be the downside of moving to Canonical hosting ^^
<dinda> bodhi_zazen: if you know anything about which modules you would also want installed that would be helpful too
<bodhi_zazen> we would not be able to change as fast if you wanted various features, such as openid or Book module, etc
<bodhi_zazen> dinda: I do not think we know yet :)
<bodhi_zazen> My opinion would be to keep our server for now, and when we are up and running, know what we want, and are ready for learn.ubuntu.com => migrate
<bodhi_zazen> there is a lot of work to be done to get to that point, IMO
<dinda> bodhi_zazen: would best if you had a full setup you could migrate over, rather than starting from a fresh install
<bodhi_zazen> +1 dinda
<pleia2> +1
<cprofitt> I think proper planning and a staging server can make the 'delay' factor not an issue
<bodhi_zazen> key is proper planning cprofitt :)
<doctormo> +1 bodhi_zazen
<dinda> bodhi_zazen: and if you have any knowledge of modules that do revision control, I'm all ears!
<bodhi_zazen> you mean for moodle ?
<doctormo> dinda: Dn't you have a whole team that does bzr development there at Canonical?
<bodhi_zazen> svn :)
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:59.
<cprofitt> thanks for coming everyone... we are at the end of our official meeting.
<doctormo> Good meeting I thought
<cprofitt> please bring further discussion to #ubuntu-learning
<dinda> thanks, keep up the good work all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-06-30
<Laney> @schedule london
<Laney> bah
<Lure> @schedule
<mdz> cjwatson: keybuk: whose turn to chair?
<mdz> I think it might be me
<jono> hi all
 * ogra thinks that was the word last time
<ogra> (unless i skipped one TB)
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> agenda is:
<mdz>  * Per-package upload application for Charlie Smotherman ([[CharlieSmotherman/PerPackageUploaderApplication|Application]] [[https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-May/002115.html|MOTU Council recommendation]])
<mdz>  * Core developer application from Thierry Carrez (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez/CoreDevApplication)
<mdz>  * Canonical support for education applications (JordanMantha, JonathanCarter, StephaneGraber)
<mdz>  * Clamav update policy, [[ClamavUpdates|proposal]] (ScottKitterman)
<mdz>  * Mono (ScottJamesRemnant)
<mdz>  * Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<mdz>  * Select a chair for the next meeting
<mdz>  * Summarize the meeting for TeamReports
<mdz> cjwatson: keybuk: are you here?
 * ScottK-laptop wrote this morning to ask if the clamav topic could come early in the meeting as I have to leave no later than 1440 UTC.
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> I chaired last week
<mdz> ScottK-laptop: sorry, I hadn't seen that yet
<cjwatson> will we have sabdfl?
<mdz> ScottK-laptop: how much time do you think it requires?
<mdz> cjwatson: seems unlikely
<Keybuk_> mdz: I am here ;)
<mdz> cjwatson: will we have Keybuk?
<mdz> ok
<Keybuk_> just making my lunch, so reading and typing for a few minutes ;)
<Keybuk_> and not typing, even
<ScottK-laptop> mdz: Anywhere between 5 minutes and two days.  It depends on if people have considered the proposal and how much discussion it generates.
<ScottK-laptop> I'm hoping not long.
<cjwatson> I've considered the proposal and you spoke to it at UDS as well
<mdz> I've read it, and saw your presentation at UDS
<mdz> I hadn't yet thought about who we would want input from beyond the TB
<mdz> release team and security team perhaps?
<ScottK-laptop> sabdfl gave it a +1 via email.
<ScottK-laptop> The security team endorsed it before i sent it to the TB.
<mdz> anyway, let's go ahead and dive into that since you requested it
<cjwatson> for the most part I think it falls under the general principle we've been evolving that we should permit updates outside the usual run of things when the driver is primarily external events
<mdz> [TOPIC]  Clamav update policy
<MootBot> New Topic:   Clamav update policy
<ScottK-laptop> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavUpdate is the proposal
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavUpdate is the proposal
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavUpdates
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavUpdates
<mdz> (is there an echo in here? ;-) )
<cjwatson> have you encountered much in the way of trouble with rdepends of the library package?
<ScottK-laptop> There are a mix of issues getting to something we think is ready for the archive.
<ScottK-laptop> So far once we've decided to push to -updates/-security there have been almost none.
<mdz> ScottK-laptop: good (re: security team).  do you have input from the release team?
<ScottK-laptop> mdz: No.  I didn't think to coordinate with them.
<Keybuk_> if not, is there a member of the release team here other than cjwatson? :)
<ScottK-laptop> For packages where upstream isn't dead it's mostly a lot of coordination, patching, and testing.
<cjwatson> well, the release team already consented to the past updates
<cjwatson> though I don't think I was much involved with that myself
<ScottK-laptop> We (slangasek actually) pushed clamav 0.95.1 and redepends to dapper/hardy/intrepid-backports yesterday.
<cjwatson> of course if these are going through -security then AFAIAC the primary signoff requirement is from the security team
<ScottK-laptop> There's is the hardest bit.
<cjwatson> so I'm pleased to see them involved in regression testing
<mdz> I have no problems with the proposal, and if the security and release teams are happy with it, I'm happy to endorse it
<Keybuk> Likewise
<cjwatson> sounds like agreement to me
<mdz> should we vote on this?
<mdz> [VOTE] endorse ClamavUpdates contingent on the support of the security and release teams
<MootBot> Please vote on:  endorse ClamavUpdates contingent on the support of the security and release teams.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mdz> Keybuk: ?
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<mdz> ScottK-laptop: anything else on this topic?
<cjwatson> ScottK-laptop: please go ahead and edit StableReleaseUpdates to reflect this when you have a chance
<ScottK-laptop> Nope.  I'll go get those endorsements.
<ScottK-laptop> cjwatson: Will do.
<mdz> ScottK-laptop: ok, thanks for making time to talk with us about it
<mdz> [TOPIC] Per-package upload application for Charlie Smotherman
<MootBot> New Topic:  Per-package upload application for Charlie Smotherman
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieSmotherman/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<ScottK-laptop> Not a problem.  Thanks for the flexibility on schedule.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieSmotherman/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<mdz> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-May/002115.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-May/002115.html
<mdz> is Charlie Smotherman here?
 * porthose waves
<porthose> yes
<mdz> porthose: hello, thanks for coming
<porthose> glad to be here
<cjwatson> porthose: can you tell us a bit about the ampache packaging - anything particularly unusual about it?
<porthose> nothing really unusual about it other than I put it together from scratch
<mdz> note that this is a bit unusual, in that we haven't previously granted per-package upload rights to packages in universe before
<mdz> but with archive reorg on the horizon, it seems appropriate to start doing this
<porthose> :)
<mdz> I suggest we treat this as we would the creation of a developer team for ampache
<porthose> ok
<Keybuk> we don't have a procedure for that yet, do we? :)
<mdz> nope
<mdz> now seems as good a time as any
<mdz> the main question is, who would be the administrator of said team?
<cjwatson> the TB
<persia> I'd suggest that until there is some reason to change, the TB should be the administrator.
<mdz> ok, no argument from me
<Keybuk> me neither
<mdz> and the list of packages would be?
<cjwatson> (I thought I'd already suggested that as standing procedure, BTW)
<cjwatson> per the application, ampache, ampache-themes, coherence
<mdz> cjwatson: sorry
<mdz> I was just searching the application to try to find that, and didn't see it
<Keybuk> porthose: are ampache and coherence related?
<cjwatson> mdz: oh, it's in the motu-council mail
<mdz> it is in the motu council's recommendation though
<porthose> Keybuk: in a way, you can use coherence + ampache + rhythmbox
<porthose> or any other player that supports DAAP
<Keybuk> ok, makes sense to keep them grouped then
<mdz> porthose: is coherence useful with servers other than ampache?
<cjwatson> just curious, you mentioned that coherence uses ampache's XML API - I notice it doesn't seem to have any dependency or build-dependency relationship. Does it just talk the API by hand?
<porthose> mdz: as far as other servers I'm not sure about, but there are a number of devices are supported by coherence
<porthose> ampache use it's XML api to communicate with coherence
<cjwatson> anyway, I've got no problem with porthose's application given motu-council's endorsement, AFAIK this is just figuring out how to best express it in LP :)
<cjwatson> mdz: do we need a team for a single person, incidentally?
<mdz> python's standard library includes an XML-RPC client
<cjwatson> I was under the impression that we would generally only bother once there were multiple people involved
<mdz> cjwatson: I  don't think we do, no
<mdz> though I think there is some advantage to making a team
<mdz> it means that if someone else comes along and wants to help with ampache, it's obvious where to go
<mdz> I'm open to either configuration, though
<cjwatson> it's easily switched over later
<mdz> are we ready to vote on granting the rights to porthose in any case?
<Keybuk> I am
<mdz> cjwatson: yes, though once there are many of these ,we'll need to remember to check for existing ACLs on a package before granting one to another individual, and convert it into a team
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> I agree, but generally think we should create structure when we need it rather than before
<cjwatson> anyway, readyy
<mdz> [VOTE] grant upload rights to Charlie Smotherman (porthose) for packages: ampache, ampache-themes, coherence
<MootBot> Please vote on:  grant upload rights to Charlie Smotherman (porthose) for packages: ampache, ampache-themes, coherence.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<mdz> cjwatson: will you take care of the ACL setup?
<cjwatson> yep
<mdz> the branch of ubuntu-archive-tools I was using seems to have vanished
<cjwatson> porthose: cjsmo in LP, right?
<mdz> bzr+ssh://mdz@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ekamion/%2Bjunk/ubuntu-archive-tools/
<mdz> cjwatson: correct
<porthose> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> oh yes, your application says that
<mdz> [TOPIC]  * Core developer application from Thierry Carrez (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez/CoreDevApplication)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Core developer application from Thierry Carrez (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez/CoreDevApplication)
<mdz> ttx: HERE?
<cjwatson> mdz: that's obsolete - use lp:~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk
<mdz> er, here?
<ttx> mdz: yes.
<mdz> ttx: hello
<ttx> hello everyone.
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez/CoreDevApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez/CoreDevApplication
<mdz> I have some direct experience of Thierry's work, and have also heard from his colleagues and manager on the server team
<cjwatson> porthose: done, you can upload those freely now modulo the release schedule
<Keybuk> ttx: what do you think is the main aspect on which you need to improve?
<porthose> cjwatson: thank you
<porthose> and the TB
<ttx> Keybuk: I would say broaden general knowledge over some packages. There are things I know, and things I don't know
<mdz> I would be interested to hear from people on other key development-related teams (like the release team, the archive admin team, etc) if he's worked with them
<Keybuk> ttx: can you think of an example offhand?
<ttx> Keybuk: I'm working on it by imposing specific periods during the week where I look over new things
<mdz> ttx: do you have experiences working with people beyond the server team in your capacity as an Ubuntu developer?
<ttx> Keybuk: hmm... iSCSI support ?
<ttx> mdz: my work on java packaging was mostly done in interaction with the ubuntu JavaTeam
<ttx> and MOTU.
<cjwatson> I've worked with ttx occasionally, but it's been more doing things on request than lots in the way of active sponsorship
<mdz> ttx: have you ever requested a freeze exception?
<ttx> Most of my work is done with upstream interaction
<cjwatson> ttx: (iSCSI support as an example of something you don't know and would like to?)
<ttx> mdz: yes, I did. For Likewise-Open, and (iirc) eucalyptus
<ttx> cjwatson: something I've not hands-on experience with. I know FC SANs but not so much the iSCSI toolset
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/likewise-open/+bug/323601
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 323601 in likewise-open "[FFe] Upgrade to likewise-open 5 for Jaunty" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<mdz> and...I think...
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/358541
<cjwatson> ttx: eucalyptus is somewhat close to my heart at the moment - how are you planning to mitigate the fact that we know we're dependent on upstream work in order to meet some release goals?
<mdz> though the latter (apart from saying "ffe") doesn't look much like a freeze exception request
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 358541 in eucalyptus "[FFe] Missing populate_arp.pl" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ttx> the latter is not especially mine, either :)
<cjwatson> ttx: (and, when you're ready) have you worked at all with those parts of Ubuntu that are currently in bzr, or with James' branches that are in progress, to evaluate how those feel to you?
<ttx> cjwatson: it's tricky. I'm trying to get tentative dependency lists so that I rate the quantity of work left correctly
<mdz> ttx: I didn't find any other freeze exception request regarding eucalyptus
<ttx> cjwatson: both euca-in-main and euca-on-cd unfortunately depend on the final dependency list
<mdz> but the likewise-open one is a good example
<cjwatson> ttx: depend for completion, yes, but it's not entirely obvious that they depend on that for getting started ...?
<ttx> cjwatson: yes, my work on etckeeper is done through bzr packaging
<ttx> and some git-bzr goodness from jelmer
<cjwatson> ah, etckeeper is native so that dodges a lot of the problems
<ttx> cjwatson: they surely don't depend on that to be started. I'd say half the work on euca-on-cd is done
<ttx> euca-in-main is trickier, since you don't really want to MIR something that ends up not being necessary.
<ttx> especially when you have ~80 packages to MIR :)
 * ttx tries to make sure he didn't miss one question in the question storm...
<mdz> ttx: is the work which has been done evident in the archive right now?
<mdz> (on euca-on-cd)
<ttx> mdz: yes. I've done dependency fixes in universe packages.
<ttx> mdz: plus a few main things that cjwatson sponsored :)
<mdz> ok, no more questions from me
<cjwatson> right, ttx and doko came to an agreement at UDS on some Java dependency rearrangement
<ttx> mdz: all should be linked from the blueprint for your review.
<mdz> let me know when you're ready to vote
<ttx> cjwatson: yes, the dreaded -gcj recommendations.
<cjwatson> I think I'm OK to go
<Keybuk> me also
<mdz> [VOTE] Application from Thierry Carrez for Ubuntu Core Developer
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Application from Thierry Carrez for Ubuntu Core Developer.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> +1 - I think ttx's knowledge of the sorts of things he's working on at the moment is now pretty sound, and he's working on a broad enough range of things that it seems to me to justify core-dev
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<mdz> ttx: congratulations and welcome
<ttx> thanks everyone !
 * mdz updates Launchpad
<jono> congrats ttx
<mdz> [TOPIC] Canonical support for education applications (JordanMantha, JonathanCarter, StephaneGraber)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Canonical support for education applications (JordanMantha, JonathanCarter, StephaneGraber)
<stgraber> sorry, I'm in another meeting at the moment but will try to quickly discuss it
<mdz> LaserJock, highvoltage, stgraber: ping?
<stgraber> so basically at the last TB meeting it was discussed that Edubuntu will have some packages from universe
<mdz> there's no link associated with this item, so I'm not sure what it's about
<stgraber> currently according to Canonical's website Edubuntu is supported as an officially supported derivative
<stgraber> and I'd have like to know what's going to happen and what's the actual current status of that
<cjwatson> 15:49 <stgraber> I guess we'll add another agenda item for the next TB meeting to discuss Canonical support for education apps as AFAIK it's still advertised as supported somewhere on ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> was where this came from, in the last meeting
<mdz> stgraber: just to be clear, are you asking whether Canonical will offer technical support services (i.e. support contracts) for educational applications?
<highvoltage> mdz: pong
<stgraber> right, currently as it's advertised Canonical is supposed to offer paid support for Edubuntu
<stgraber> and so was wondering what's happening with that in regard of Edubuntu's current situation
<Keybuk> I'm not sure that this is something the Ubuntu Technical Board can decide, Canonical's offer of commerical support for any given release is up to Canonical
<jono> Keybuk, I get the impression stgraber is just looking to know where things stand today
<mdz> right, this isn't up to the TB
<highvoltage> Keybuk: I thought that Canonical supports everything in main, also, would the archive re-organisation have an effect on what canonical supports?
<mdz> but I've asked the corporate services folks to get you an authoritative answer anyway
<highvoltage> ok that could work
<mdz> the answer is that they are willing to offer such a service, but to date there has been no interest in it
<persia> Just as a point of policy, should developers raise this class of issues to the TB for redirection, or should they be sent to Canonical individually and directly?
<cjwatson> highvoltage: the archive reorganisation may make it easier to explain what Canonical supports, but should not in and of itself change it
<mdz> I would much rather people contact Canonical sales representatives if they have questions about Canonical products and services
<mdz> persia: ^^
<mdz> I am happy to help out in making connections as necessary
<mdz> it's just more expedient to ask directly than to come via an Ubuntu community channel
<persia> mdz, Thanks.  Just wondered if it was a TB-speaks-for-the-developers thing.
<mdz> stgraber: does that resolve your question?
<stgraber> I'm fine with that
<mdz> ok, moving on then.  10 minutes to go
<mdz> [TOPIC] Mono (ScottJamesRemnant)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mono (ScottJamesRemnant)
<Keybuk> persia: from a community POV, our goal has always been to allow other companies than Canonical to offer commercial support - and thus not single out Canonical for special treatment by the board
<Keybuk> mdz: I have proposed a position statement on Mono
<persia> Keybuk, Right.
<mdz> last week, Scott proposed a position statement
<Keybuk> shall I post it to a wiki page so others can read it?
<mdz> which I'm ashamed to say I haven't read yet
<cjwatson> I *just* did
<cjwatson> (oops)
<mdz> I have read it now
<cjwatson> it seems like a more direct phrasing of basically the same kinds of things that were in the last minutes I sent out
<mdz> and I think it sounds perfectly reasonable
<cjwatson> and as such I'm fine with it
<Keybuk> I propose that we send it to the developer mailing lists, directly replies to the TB list
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I think you should post it to ubuntu-devel-announce@ so others can read it, then ;-)
<Keybuk> u-d-a or u-d?
<jono> I think Keybuk's statement sounds reasonable
<mdz> jono was liaising with Canonical PR on this as well, since there had been an inquiry
<mdz> where are we on the patent policy?  iirc I sent some feedback and Scott sent a +1
<mdz> it would be nice to be able to refer to that when talking about Mono
<mdz> jono: ?
<jono> agreed
<jono> the patent policy is waiting with the TB
<jono> I don't think the full TB has reviewed it
<mdz> jono: you've received feedback from 2/4 members of the TB.  do you want something from everyone?
<jono> I sent over the proposed policy quite some time ago
<mdz> if so, I think you'll need to chase the rest
<jono> ok, will do
<mdz> I doubt sabdfl has looked at it
<jono> I think sabdfl needs to
<mdz> do we want to push something out re: mono before that?
<jono> particularly as Canonical would be liable
<cjwatson> I've failed to read the patent policy draft properly - I will do so promptly
<jono> mdz, Gerry said regarding the PR issue, that it has ended now and a piece has been written
<mdz> [ACTION] Colin to read the draft patent policy and provide feedback
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Colin to read the draft patent policy and provide feedback
<mdz> [ACTION] jono to chase Mark for feedback on the draft patent policy
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jono to chase Mark for feedback on the draft patent policy
<jono> but we still need a final Mono statement
<mdz> do we want to go ahead with an announcement on Mono before the patent policy is settled?
<jono> mdz, do we need an announcement? nothing changed?
<Keybuk> jono: the change has been a sudden increase in anti-Mono discussion, we'd like to boldly remind everyone of our existing technical position ;)
<mdz> jono: we (the board) discussed it and felt it would be useful to make a statment of some kind, given the level of unrest over it
<jono> ok, sounds reasonable
<Keybuk> the statement uses text from the patent policy draft, but doesn't specifically refer to it
<jono> I would say the draft you wrote Keybuk, serves that well
<mdz> so do we: a) go ahead with it as-is, or b) wait until the patent policy is in place?
<mdz> I'm happy either way
<Keybuk> I think it's worthwhile getting the statement out sooner
<mdz> I honestly expect that the patent policy will mainly be cleanup and wordsmithing from here
<jono> mdz, I think the two are disconnected
<jono> I agree with Keybuk
<cjwatson> I would say go ahead
<mdz> it's based pretty directly on Mark's guidance presented at a TB meeting, so I don't expect him to want to change the fundamentals
<mdz> ok, sounds like we go ahead
<mdz> [ACTION] Scott to publish Mono position statement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Scott to publish Mono position statement
<jono> good stuff
<mdz> [TOPIC] Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<Keybuk> this is waiting feedback from cjwatson
<cjwatson> this week I suck, apparently
<Keybuk> Mark gave a +1, there's been minor tweaking of text since then but no substantive changes
<mdz> Scott (who has apparently been very active with TB stuff lately) also made a proposal for a new governing board
<Keybuk> though we should agree on the process for the DAB, and whether we should describe that in our mail to the CC
<mdz> to separate the "processing developer applications" aspect of the TB from the rest
<cjwatson> I think I'd like us to say something about direction wrt motu-council
<jono> cjwatson, agreed
<mdz> we don't have time to discuss it here, just to agree actions
<mdz> [ACTION] Colin to review Scott's DAB proposal and provide feedback
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Colin to review Scott's DAB proposal and provide feedback
<cjwatson> I will write up a suggested extra paragraph
<Keybuk> to be fair, Scott just drafted the current text ;) for the sake of correctness, it should be pointed out that it's something that mdz, cjwatson and I discussed over dinner last week
<mdz> jono: have you reviewed it yet?
<jono> mdeslaur, not yet
<jono> mdz, not yet
<mdz> [ACTION] Jono to review Scott's DAB proposal and provide feedback
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jono to review Scott's DAB proposal and provide feedback
<jono> I am not sure I recieved it
<Keybuk> jono: forwarded it to you
<jono> I will check
<mdz> Keybuk: please send jono a copy if you haven't already
<jono> thanks Keybuk
<mdz> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<mdz> no time for AOB
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:00.
<jono> wow, that was swift
<jono> a TB in fast forward :)
<mdz> we covered a lot of ground
<mdz> well done, all
<mdz> keeping the meetings under control is one reason why we want to create the DAB
<ogra> nearly german with your timing today :)
<jono> indeed
<cjwatson> solution for excessively long meetings: MOAR MEETINGS
<cjwatson> *ahem*
<jono> cjwatson, hah
<ttx> OK, who is here for the server team meeting ?
<nijaba> o/
<alexm> o/
<sommer> yo
<ttx> come on, don't be shy, speak up :)
<zul> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<Amun> o/
<ttx> Our beloved mathiaz is trapped in a parallel dimension^W meeting, so I'll do the last-minute lousy replacement
<ttx> Let's get started
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
 * nijaba signals that ttx just got approved as a core dev less than 20min ago...
<ttx> Last week minutes:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090623
<sommer> congrat :)!
 * ttx passes the champagne bottle around
<alexm> congrats, ttx
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> * ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms
<ttx> ivoks: around ?
<nijaba> does not seem to be
<ttx> ok, we'll pass
<ttx> * ttx to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page
<ttx> ttx: around ?
<ttx> o/
<nijaba> :D
<ttx> I've published my anaylsis notes so far on a draft spec document
<ttx> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HadoopPackagingSpec
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HadoopPackagingSpec
<ttx> There is the dependency analysis and the cloudera packaging review
<ttx> This, as well as the related blueprint (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-hadoop) is free for interested people to take over
<ttx> since I don't expect to havce any free time left in Karmic to make this happen.
<ttx> have, even
<ttx> Questions, anyone ?
<ttx> ok... if it's crystal-clear, let's move to next action...
<ttx> * jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic
<ttx> jmdault: around ?
<jmdault> ttx yup
<jmdault> ttx: 1.6
<ttx> jmdault: did you get soe feedback from outside stakeholders on the subject ?
<ttx> s/soe/some/
<ttx> Debian VoIP team / Digium ?
<jmdault> From Debian, basically they said "if you want 1.4, use Lenny"
<jmdault> They want to go forward
<jmdault> From Digium, they won't commit to a version
<jmdault> http://www.asterisk.org/node/48602
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.asterisk.org/node/48602
<ttx> jmdault: did you have a look at the merge ?
<jmdault> ttx: not yet.
<ttx> jmdault: so the idea would be to push the version in your PPA to 1.6 soon ?
<jmdault> ttx: yes, I'm planning that for next week
<ttx> [ACTION] jmdault to start packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jmdault to start packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms
<ttx> jmdault: anything to add ?
<jmdault> not at the moment
<ttx> jmdault: ok, many thanks for looking into this... it's not something that's easy to work on out of the blue :)
<ttx> Next...
<ttx> * nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners
<ttx> * nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input
<nijaba> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips
<nijaba> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2009-June/003009.html
<ttx> nijaba: Cool, any other progress/feedback to report, outside of what we are able to see on ubuntu-server ML ?
<nijaba> ttx: a few updates to the wiki, but that's it
<nijaba> ttx: no strong reaction against it from the community
<nijaba> ttx: I felt more of an approval
<ttx> nijaba: How many people contributed tips ?
<nijaba> ttx: 3 or 4
<ttx> nijaba: yes, the reaction was generally positive.
<ttx> nijaba: what are the next steps ?
<nijaba> ttx: create the package?
<ttx> nijaba: do you think there are enough tips at that point for the package ? Or would we need more ?
<nijaba> ttx: I do not think we need that many for it to be usefull, and nothing prevents us from addind until string freeze
<ttx> nijaba: is there somewhere rules (except line size) of what's relevant as a tip and what's not ?
<nijaba> ttx: no, but I could add that to the wiki page
<ttx> nijaba: that would make sense. I doubt anyone would object to the tips already present, but some people might object to general rules...
<alexm> some rules will be helpful, indeed
<ttx> nijaba: I've asked a question about pointers... I feel like short tips are useful if you can follow them up
<nijaba> ttx: depends on the type of tips, but that's noted
<ttx> like talking about etckeeper, where do I go if I want more material to decide if it's good for me or not ?
<nijaba> ttx: ie I do not think a tip on bash would need a pointed
<ttx> nijaba: of course. It's just that a general follow-up mechanism to some reference page (or the manpage site) might make sense
<ttx> obviously it's dangerous to make the target of such links a wikipage
<nijaba> ttx: why is that?
<nijaba> ttx: afraid of wiki defacing?
<ttx> nijaba: yes.
<nijaba> ttx: ok, I'll add that in the rules
<ttx> OK, anyone else has comments on the ubuntu-tips effort ?
<sommer> I think it's great :)
<ttx> [ACTION] nijaba to add rules detailing what makes a relevant tip and what's not
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to add rules detailing what makes a relevant tip and what's not
<ttx> Moving on...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap
<ttx> One issue with this agenda point is that the Roadmap is somewhat out of date and incomplete
 * sommer can update the documentation section
<ttx> So I propose that we put on next week meeting agenda a discussion on the Roadmap, what we want to have in it and how we track progress on it.
<ttx> sommer: the doc section (and the merges one) are about the only one up-to-date :)
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to add Roadmap Review to next meeting agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to add Roadmap Review to next meeting agenda
<sommer> ttx: mmm, looks like the doc corner could use some adjusting for karmic, heh
<ttx> Anyone has progress on something that is (or should be) on the Roadmap to report ?
<ttx> As far as KarmicReleaseSchedule is concerned, we passed DebianImportFreeze last week, so now syncs from Debian are subject to specific sync requests
<ttx> Next up is alpha3 release on July 23
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
 * ttx opens the bar for all questions / jokes / subjects
<alexm> several people have asked for a monitoring tool recently
<zul> ummm...nagios?
<alexm> nagios seems the right one but it's not mentioned on the serverguide
<dholbach> A bear, a bee and an alligator meet in a bar...
<ttx> dholbach: we said, no Michael Jackson jokes.
<sommer> alexm: there's actually a new section on nagios in the karmic guide
<alexm> sommer: that's good news :-)
<zul> oooh....whats the difference between michael jackson and disney?
<zul> disney can still touch kids
<sommer> lol
<alexm> sommer: is there a link with karmic serverguide available or should we check the bzr branch out?
<sommer> alexm: the doc.ubuntu.com site doesn't seem to be updated so ya the bzr branch is the best way
<sommer> alexm: I'll ping the doc team about getting it updated though
<alexm> sommer: thanks, I think it'll be quite handy
<sommer> alexm: I hope so... all feedback is greatly appreciated :-)
<zul> sommer: i have meaner ones
<sommer> zul: I don't doubt it, heeeh
<ttx> hm time to wrap up then
<alexm> sommer: we plan to move to nagios at work, so i'm going to review it for sure
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> next week, same place, same time, different chair?
 * sommer agrees
<ttx> alrighty
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:44.
<alexm> sure
<ttx> thanks everyone for attending, see you all next week
<sommer> thanks ttx, later on all
<alexm> see you
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: too late :)
<RoAkSoAx> ttx,  :(
<RoAkSoAx> ttx, I coulnd't make it earlier
<bjf> Roll Call
 * jjohansen waves
 * apw zones in
 * manjo waves
 * ogasawara waves
 * lieb here
<apw> cking and smb send their applogies
 * amitk here
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "rtg and apw kernel boot msg cleanup"
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "rtg and apw kernel boot msg cleanup"
<apw> that one is still pending ... will add it to the ReleaseStatus page
<apw> and we can remove it here
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "ogasawara to push the hsdb scripts to the buildscripts git reposi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "ogasawara to push the hsdb scripts to the buildscripts git reposi
<ogasawara> bjf: still working with abel to get the new api
<bjf> ogasawara, hmmm
<ogasawara> bjf: so keep it as an action for me
 * pgraner waves
<bjf> [ACTION] apw to add "Kernel boot msg cleanup" to ReleaseStatus page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to add "Kernel boot msg cleanup" to ReleaseStatus page
<apw> ack
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "apw, awe, cking decide on a netbook release for Jaunty"
<bjf> This was done and a a test version for current projects has been released
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "apw, awe, cking decide on a netbook release for Jaunty"
<bjf> This was done and a a test version for current projects has been released
<apw> that one is completed, we had a meeting and organised things
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "ogasawara send mail to Jono about getting community help on kerne
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "ogasawara send mail to Jono about getting community help on kerne
<ogasawara> bjf: done.  I'm currently working with the community team on what we can do to get more participation.
<bjf> ogasawara, great!
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<bjf> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security, in process)
<bjf> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.55 (security, in process)
<bjf>             2.6.24-24.54 (proposed)[25] with 2/11 verifications
<bjf>             LRM 2.6.24.18-24.1 (proposed) [25] with 0/1 verifications
<bjf>             Trying to get wl (LRM) tested the next days
<bjf> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security, in process)
<bjf>             2.6.27-14.34 (proposed)[25] 3/24 verifications! Same as last week.
<bjf>             LBM 2.6.27-14.17 (proposed)[15] with 1/2 verifications
<bjf>             LRM 2.6.27-14.20 (proposed)[25] with 1/2 verifications.
<bjf>             Again it is the wl driver that needs testing in LRM
<bjf> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security, in process)
<bjf>             No proposed package pending.
<bjf> smb sent that to me before the meeting in case he couldn't respond in person
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic
<apw> The karmic kernel is progressing well.  Mainline 2.6.31-rc1 was released
<apw> last week and the karmic kernel has been rebased onto it.  The kernel
<apw> is in the process of being uploaded.  Work is progressing on the main
<apw> drivers which were disabled during the previous version jumps.
<apw> The main karmic deliverables are progressing pretty well:
<apw>  - KMS for ATI Radon merges with 2.6.31-rc1 and is enabled
<apw>  - ubuntu/ review is starting to produce updates and removals
<apw>  - final config review is in progress
<apw> apparmor is being regression tested, bugs discovered are now being worked,
<apw> preliminary rebase work looking good.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: ARM
<bjf> Still working on Babbage 1 patches for Karmic.
<bjf> This is behind schedule. The patches have been rebased to 2.6.31-rc1 (Karmic)
<pgraner> bjf, amitk: lets have a call today to see what we can do
<bjf> pgraner, anytime works for me
<amitk> ack
<bjf> pgraner, one issue is getting the same HW for amit and myself
<pgraner> bjf: we can coordinate after this meeting
<bjf> ack
<pgraner> bjf: understood
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook
<sconklin> Nothing to report
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions
<ogasawara> bjf: 0 new regressions this week. \o/
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Kernel Devs
<ogasawara> Fix Released    4 (â4)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   53 (â53)
<ogasawara> Invalid 3 (â3)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<ogasawara> In Progress 2 (â2)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  170 (â53)
<ogasawara> Triaged 24 (â6)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   21 (â1)
<ogasawara> New 22 (â3)
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Community
<ogasawara> Fix Released    0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Invalid 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<ogasawara> In Progress 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  3 (â3)
<ogasawara> Triaged 44 (â6)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   1 (â1)
<ogasawara> New 0 (â0)
<ogasawara> I'd also like to note Bryce merged our first set of kernel arsenal scripts.  I'm going to start running them more aggressively.
<ogasawara> Also, next up is looking at adding the apport interactive hooks for the kernel package.
<ogasawara> bjf: done
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
 * ogasawara raises hand
<bjf> ogasawara, go
<ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<ogasawara> One thing dholbach from the community team mentioned that could really help us build our kernel community is to have a few kernel related sessions for Ubuntu Developer Week.
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<ogasawara> I've already signed up to do a session on kernel triaging and debugging.
<ogasawara> Sessions are 1hr long and are held over IRC.  Ideally they'd like to see 3-4 kernel related talks.
<ogasawara> If you're interested, please sign up for a slot on the UDW wiki
 * pgraner raises his hand as well
<bjf> pgraner, go
<pgraner> bjf: we need to start covering the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic in the agenda starting next week.
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf, Add Karmic release status to agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf, Add Karmic release status to agenda
<pgraner> that means all devs with karmic deliverables needs to talk to their tasks in the meeting ... status, issues etc...
<bjf> pgraner, I'll take that action (adding it to the agenda)
<pgraner> bjf: thanks
<bjf> anyone else?
<bjf> anyone?
<bjf> anything?
<bjf> sound like that's it for open discussion
<bjf> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair Selection
<bjf> I don't mind doing it again
<pgraner> I'll second that
 * manjo thinks someone should do it for a month and then rotate out 
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf to chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to chair next meeting
<bjf> thanks everyone, that's it for today
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:16.
<lieb> bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-01
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo everyone
<nhandler> Hey bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> who is here for the meeting ?
<nhandler> o/
<Ash_R> o/
<Joeb454> o/
<pleia2> o/
<drs305> o/
<bodhi_zazen> .startmeeting
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<bodhi_zazen> yipee
<bodhi_zazen> you want to do agenda items first ?
<nhandler> Sure bodhi_zazen, but can we move the first item until the end of the agenda? It will require a little discussion
<bodhi_zazen> oops ...
<bodhi_zazen> sure
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Transition from ## to #
<MootBot> New Topic:  Transition from ## to #
<nhandler> Currently, we have our FG channels using the naming scheme ##beginners-foo
<bodhi_zazen> you are up nhandler
<nhandler> As they are part of our team, they should really use #ubuntu-beginners-foo
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<swoody> +1 nhandler
<nhandler> I have talked with Pricey, and there is no Freenode/Ubuntu IRC policy prohibiting this
<bodhi_zazen> just for a little history, if I recall long ago we did just this and were asked to move to ##
<bodhi_zazen> so I do not mind moving back
<nhandler> It will make it clear to other users that the FG channels are in the Ubuntu namespace, and all Ubuntu rules apply in there
<bodhi_zazen> we will have to update the wiki - AGAIN - lol
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/MovingChannels
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/MovingChannels
<Ash_R> At least rocket won't find out until after the holiday.
<bodhi_zazen> I will move -council
<nhandler> That wiki page explains how to move the channels
<nhandler> I would like to ask all FG leaders to move their own channel (if the vote passes)
<Joeb454> I think it's probably for the best, as you say, makes it clear what the channels are
<bodhi_zazen> do you want to vote on this ?
<nhandler> I think we should bodhi_zazen
<Joeb454> that said - I think the channel names could become very long
<bodhi_zazen> LOL nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] move to #
<MootBot> Please vote on:  move to #.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<drs305> +1
<sdennie> 0
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Ash_R> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<w4ett> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<bodhi_zazen> any mor evotes ?
<sdennie> Huh.  Apparently 0 doesn't mean abstained
<nhandler> sdennie: +0
<sdennie> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from sdennie. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 7
<bodhi_zazen> [AGREED]Move to #
<MootBot> AGREED received: Move to #
<bodhi_zazen> :)
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: So you will move -council, and FG leads will move their own channels, correct?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Council members and Focus Group Leaders should sign Leadership Code of Conduct
<MootBot> New Topic:  Council members and Focus Group Leaders should sign Leadership Code of Conduct
<bodhi_zazen> yes nhandler
<nhandler> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
<Joeb454> there's a leadership CoC? lol
<nhandler> The Leadership Code of Conduct holds leaders in the Ubuntu community to a higher standard than the normal Code of Conduct. As Council members and Focus Group leaders are leaders on an official Ubuntu team, I feel that it is important that all members sign the Leadership Code of Conduct in addition to the standard Code of Conduct (which they already should have signed). As Launchpad currently does not offer a place to upload signed copies
 * Joeb454 takes a few mins to read the link
<bodhi_zazen> any commnets on that ?
<bodhi_zazen> I already signed so pfft :)
<Saj0577> dont start vote reading time please :D
<Joeb454> well I think it's fair, though it probably means I need another key, and I'll have to be reminded how to sign things =/
<Ash_R> i think its a good idea
<bodhi_zazen> how would you have them sign it nhandler
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: The same way as the normal CoC is signed (GPG Clearsign). We would then email it to the -council mailing list, and possibly CC the full team list (if desired)
<bodhi_zazen> LP does the CoC, does it do the Leadership CoC as well ?
<nhandler> No
<nhandler> That is why I proposed emailing it to the list
<bodhi_zazen> Well, it it is not tracked in LP, I do not want to track it either :)
<bodhi_zazen> I think a signed CoC on LP and awareness of the Leadersip CoC is sufficient
<Ash_R> can we not push for it to be tracked through launchpad?
<sdennie> I tend to agree with bodhi_zazen on this.  If it's a haphazard method of tracking, it doesn't mean much.
<w4ett> bodhi_zazen:  +1
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler: do any other team require a signed leadership CoC ?
<pleia2> no, but there is a LP bug about it
<pleia2> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392976
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392976 in ubuntu-community "Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> mentions that it probably should be :)
<sdennie> Maybe we should bring the subject up again if/when the bug is fixed
<bodhi_zazen> +1 sdennie
<Ash_R> +1 sdennie
<bodhi_zazen> and perhaps we should nudge the bug trackers :)
<pleia2> it's a brand new bug
<pleia2> only 3 days old
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments b4 we vote ?
<Saj0577> I think it is a good idea so why not set the example in saying we should sign it?
<nhandler> Just because it is not tracked on LP is no reason not to hold our team leaders to it
<swoody> +1 nhandler
<Saj0577> agreed.
<Ash_R> i agree also
<Joeb454> I'm sort of mid-field on this one
<sdennie> Saj0577: Do you plan to get my public key and verify that the stuff at the bottom of my signature is indeed a signature and not just random characters?
<swoody> I think it would be a great show if we take the initiative and start a push ourselves
<bodhi_zazen> holding team leaders to it and gpg signing it are separate though
<Joeb454> I agree that team leaders should be aware of it, and have read it (I've just finished reading) - but there's no way to see if they have done that
<bodhi_zazen> gpg signing means we need a way to track
<sdennie> bodhi_zazen: Right.  Holding team leaders to it is fine in my opinion
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If they have not signed it, they never really agreed to follow it
<Ash_R> i have been aware of it for a while.  never seen it mentioned anywhere else though
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If we have a signed copy of it on the ML, we can track it ;)
<bodhi_zazen> it does not really matter if they agree nhandler , we will hold them to it anyways, lol
<Ash_R> then that is holding them to something they did not agree to bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> indeed Ash_R
<Saj0577> Ash_R but if they got an objection too it do we really want them as a team leader?
<nhandler> The Leadership CoC is more of a formality. I doubt that any of our current leaders will be violating it (even if unsigned)
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think it is unreasonable to hold "leaders" to a higher standard
<bodhi_zazen> and that is the other issue nhandler
<Ash_R> Saj0577,  having seen the terms they would have had opportunity to back out
<cprofitt> is there even a way to sign it nhandler ?
<nhandler> cprofitt: GPG clearsign
<swoody> I think we should implement it with all new team leads. Sort of like a EULA where they have to accept to abide by the code to become a lead in the first place.
<sdennie> I really don't see this as an issue.  The Leadership CoC is common sense stuff.  I'd be happy to sign it if there were an official way to track it.  There isn't so, I'm not sure what good signing it will do.
<bodhi_zazen> people who violate the principles generally are not in leadership positions
<pleia2> On the CoC page: "In addition to this Code of Conduct, we hold our community leaders (such as IRC operators, Forums staff, team leaders and LoCo coordinators) to an even higher standard which is documented in the Leadership Code of Conduct."
<pleia2> so in theory, leaders *are* bound by it already
<cprofitt> nhandler, but is there a 'process' as there is for the CoC?
<bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
<Joeb454> pleia2: it does? damn...I'm in 3 of those categories ;)
<nhandler> cprofitt: The 'process' for the normal CoC is mainly to get it to show up on LP. All we would do is GPG clearsign it and email it to the mailing list (which is publicly accessible)
<Joeb454> but you do have a good point there
<bodhi_zazen> I think people in leadership are bound by the principles and we should ask them to file a signed CoC on LP
<sdennie> nhandler: But, as I said, is anyone going to go to the trouble to see if it's actually signed or just has a bunch of random characters at the bottom?
<bodhi_zazen> in addition when LP is able to track a Leadership CoC , add it in
<cprofitt> nhandler, who would record that it had been signed? When it is modified who would send out a notice to re-sign it? If I change my gpg would I have to resign it?
<sdennie> I agree with bodhi_zazen
<nhandler> sdennie: I would have no issue verifying all of the signatures
<bodhi_zazen> a signed CoC essentially includes the leadership clauses, IMO
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, +1
<cprofitt> unless there is a way to track it... I think it is likely more 'trouble' than it is worth
<sdennie> I say shelve the issue or vote on it.  We are just talking in circles.
<cprofitt> certainly if a leader violates it they should be questioned by the remaining leaders
<nhandler> Most of that 'tracking' stuff you were asking about cprofitt isn't even available for the normal CoC
<nhandler> The Leadership CoC should also remain relatively stable
<cprofitt> nhandler, then I see no value in signatures...
<bodhi_zazen> [Vote] Leaders gpg sign Leadership CoC
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Leaders gpg sign Leadership CoC.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sdennie> -1
<cprofitt> leaders by default agree to it
<MootBot> -1 received from sdennie. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<bodhi_zazen> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<cprofitt> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<drs305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<Saj0577> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Saj0577. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<duanedesign> +0
<swoody> -1
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesign. 0 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
<MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -5
<w4ett> +0
<Ash_R> -1
<MootBot> Abstention received from w4ett. 0 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -5
<MootBot> -1 received from Ash_R. 0 for, 6 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -6
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 6 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -5
<Joeb454> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 1 for, 6 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -5
<bodhi_zazen> any other votes
<cprofitt> three times for Robert's Rules bodhi_zazen
<Ash_R> we seem to be short on numbers.
<cprofitt> pain, but the process
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 6 against. 4 abstained. Total: -5
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Bring issue up when we can track the document on LP
<MootBot> Please vote on: Bring issue up when we can track the document on LP.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Ash_R> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<sdennie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<w4ett> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Saj0577> +1
<cprofitt> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from Saj0577. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<Joeb454> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
<duanedesign> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesign. 7 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7
<drs305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 8 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8
<bodhi_zazen> any mor evotes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 8
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION]Bring the issue of Leaders signing Leadership CoC when we can track it on LP
<MootBot> ACTION received: Bring the issue of Leaders signing Leadership CoC when we can track it on LP
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Get rid of Jedi Fellows
<MootBot> New Topic: Get rid of Jedi Fellows
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Would you (or another council member) like to give a status update of the charter now?
<bodhi_zazen> REMINDER 30 min left :)
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler:
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler: do you want to table your agenda item ?
<nhandler> I guess we can do it now (and the status update after)
<bodhi_zazen> Well, I do not see charter on the agenda
<sdennie> I talked with nhandler about this topic but, I don't think getting rid of the Jedi Fellows is needed
<nhandler> A Jedi Fellow is a Beginners Team member who is also an Ubuntu member. This grants no special powers/privileges, and is designed to encourage Beginners Team members to become Ubuntu members. I do not think that we should be encouraging people to become Ubuntu members in order to be listed as a Jedi Fellow.
<bodhi_zazen> which although important, means
<bodhi_zazen> agenda items first
<bodhi_zazen> then new members
<cprofitt> I see no reason to get rid of the Jedi Fellows...
<bodhi_zazen> and comments from FG
<cprofitt> there is no reason to not recognize them
<Ash_R> bodhi_zazen,  comments on what sorry :)
<nhandler> No other Ubuntu *team* recognizes Ubuntu members. Only *areas* of the community (Forums, IRC, LP, etc) recognize them
<bodhi_zazen> I am neutral tending to want to encourage Ubuntu Membership
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I think we should encourage Ubuntu Membership, but not with a title
<bodhi_zazen> FG leads should at least give us an update or things they need from the team
<sdennie> I think a lot of people use the BT as an easy to access stepping stone into the Ubuntu community.  Knowing the people that have been recognized as Ubuntu members seems important to me.
<cprofitt> it was not meant to encourage people to become a member for 'recognition' but to cast it in a positive light
<Saj0577> I think it may influence people to become members who otherwise would not seek it.
<cprofitt> nhandler, we are not other teams
<Ash_R> oh right.  in that case i have something to add if time allows bodhi_zazen
<cprofitt> BT is the team that helps guide users in to the rest of the Ubuntu Community Cosmos
<sdennie> cprofitt: I agree
<bodhi_zazen> OK Ash_R :)
<drs305> I don't care what they are called but feel there should be an easy way to identify BT Ubuntu members
<bodhi_zazen> wait ... Ash_R
<nhandler> You can get that info by 1) Looking at the group on the forums 2) Looking at our cloaks 3) The +members page on LP
<cprofitt> if nothing else having such recognition serves to make new people aware that such a recognition exists from the Ubuntu community
<cprofitt> nhandler, Yes, but as a team we are the gateway to that information
<cprofitt> we server the purpose making people aware of that
<sdennie> Again I agree with cprofitt
<bodhi_zazen> I think recognition is important as I do think this team helps people move from forums -> Greater Ubuntu Community
<nhandler> cprofitt: So we can link them to those locations instead of reproducing the list ourselves
<bodhi_zazen> and most team members feel it helps :)
<cprofitt> if people can only see that in the traditional ways then we do not need to 'guide' them
<cprofitt> I disagree nhandler
<nhandler> If we feel the need to have a list, I would like to propose using the LP api to generate it
<cprofitt> just because there are other ways does not mean we should not recognize them and provide another way
<drs305> None of those are well known or comprehensive, nor directly connected to the team.
<cprofitt> what 'problems' do you have with the recognition
<nhandler> cprofitt: The wiki page requires us to manually update it, and it has frequently been out-dated
<cprofitt> nhandler, that is true of many of the wiki pages
<cprofitt> it is easy enough to have people who become members update it themselves
<cprofitt> if they want to be listed
<bodhi_zazen> +1 cprofitt
<bodhi_zazen> it is not "our" responsibility to keep that info up to date
<drs305> Once a member, always a member unless they leave the team. The list would have to be updated once. Let the members list themselves.
<drs305> * What cprofitt said!
<Saj0577> drs305 only lasts 2 years then needs renewing i believe.
<bodhi_zazen> and when people recieve recognition they are usually quite willing to add in their names ;)
<cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
<drs305> ty Saj0577
<bodhi_zazen> are we ready to vote ?
<cprofitt> Saj0577, true
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Willing isn't the issue. Many people don't know the list exists and needs updating
<cprofitt> I am bodhi_zazen
<cprofitt> nhandler, then educate them about the list -- do not get rid of it because it requires a bit of work
<nhandler> This is why I suggested using the LP API to generate it
<bodhi_zazen> any additional comments prior to vote ?
<Ash_R> i am ready to vote.
<nhandler> It would always be up-to-date
<cprofitt> I think there are far more positives to it than negatives
 * Saj0577 has a point for AOB
<bodhi_zazen> [Vote]Get rid of Jedi Fellows
<MootBot> Please vote on: Get rid of Jedi Fellows.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> and the work and effort is worth it
<cprofitt> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<Joeb454> +0
<swoody> -1
<MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<drs305> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from drs305. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<duanedesign> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from duanedesign. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<sdennie> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from sdennie. 0 for, 5 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -5
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -5
<w4ett> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from w4ett. 0 for, 6 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -6
<Saj0577> +0
<Ash_R> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Ash_R. 0 for, 7 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -7
<MootBot> Abstention received from Saj0577. 0 for, 7 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -7
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 7 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -6
<bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 7 against. 3 abstained. Total: -6
<bodhi_zazen> [AGREED] Keep Jedi Fellows
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Keep Jedi Fellows
<bodhi_zazen> do we want to talk charter ?
<bodhi_zazen> or hear from FG and new members ?
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I think a status update of the charter would be nice
<bodhi_zazen> charter may be short or long
<nhandler> Just a status update (no discussion)
<Ash_R> i think new members
<bodhi_zazen> +1 nhandler
<cprofitt> new members then status updates
<bodhi_zazen> any objections 9as it was not on the agenda)
<cprofitt> charter good too...
<swoody> +1 charter
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: It was an action from the last meeting
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Charter
<MootBot> New Topic: Charter
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler: well it really needs to be on the agenda :)
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We didn't have our meeting to discuss it until yesterday ;)
<nhandler> Would another leader like to summarize?
<cprofitt> feel free nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> I know, but if we or you were even thinking of discussing it, it really should have been added, and canceled if needed (IMO) for future meetings
<Joeb454> nhandler: go ahead :)
<nhandler> We started puting some ideas on the wiki for a charter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Council/Charter
<nhandler> As a note, that is simply a draft. We will be cleaning it up and reorganizing it soon
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler: just so we know, who is "we" ?
<nhandler> We in this case is the BT Council
<bodhi_zazen> just curious as to who fees we need to change is all
<bodhi_zazen> TY
<nhandler> For those of you who have suggestions/comments about the charter, please feel free to contact the council either on IRC or via email (to the list)
<cprofitt> feels
<bodhi_zazen> For others, in the past this has been here :
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Council/
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Council/
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: That page is relatively new and just a copy/paste from the Structure page
<bodhi_zazen> well, yes is new, but the content is not new
<bodhi_zazen> it is not as if we are just starting to discuss the role of the council
<bodhi_zazen> the first link does not have any history behind it , and people outside the discussion can not follow without the page I linked
<sdennie> I'm not sure if we should dwell on this much tonight if there is more business to attend to
<nhandler> I am fine with moving on sdennie
<bodhi_zazen> I think the page I linked is sufficient, but am open to suggestions if anything needs to be added or changed
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to have some idea of where we are going with this, at least a general trend
<bodhi_zazen> or is the page I linked sufficient ?
<Saj0577> sufficient
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler: or anyone else have any suggestions ?
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We (BT Council) will be talking more with paultag and other users who expressed strong opinions on the mailing list thread
<Ash_R> can this be put on the next agenda as it would give members who are not present to think on it
<nhandler> Ash_R: Yes. Hopefully, we will have a charter to vote on for that meeting
<Ash_R> we seem to have less that 12 voters present
<Ash_R> *than
<nhandler> New members now?
<bodhi_zazen> I am ok with discussing the charter later
<cprofitt> we will likely have to have some rules -- written in the charter about how much of the team will be required to accept it...
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New members
<MootBot> New Topic: New members
<cprofitt> and what will be required to change it... etc
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: I think as general as possible :)
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, not sure those things can be general...
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: I think is up for membership
 * pleia2 waves
<cprofitt> we can use well tested ones
<bodhi_zazen> I know cprofitt
<nhandler> pleia2: Care to introduce yourself?
<cprofitt> yes... I present pleia2 for membership
<cprofitt> her wiki page is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/lyz
<cprofitt> she has worked with the Education FG is getting the Ubuntu Community Learning Project off the ground
<pleia2> Sure, I'm Elizabeth Krumbach, have been working with Ubuntu for a few years, became a member about 2 years ago, started working with cprofitt and all on the education FG related to Classroom which led into the new Learning project
<cprofitt> and has been very helpful with several other teams
<pleia2> and I hang out in the #ubuntu-beginners team and help out as needed, would like to start doing soem Classroom classes under the BT label
<nhandler> Any questions for pleia2 ? Or can we vote?
<bodhi_zazen> I support pleia2 in membership :)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] pleia2 for membersihp
<MootBot> Please vote on:  pleia2 for membersihp.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sdennie> +1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Ash_R> +1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Saj0577> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<w4ett> pleia2 has been indispensable in assisting in the reformation of the tennessee loco team
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<swoody> +1
<jgoguen> +1
<w4ett> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Saj0577. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<drs305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
<bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 10 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 10
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
<bodhi_zazen> w00t :)
<Ash_R> congratulations pleia2
<nhandler> Congrats pleia2 ! What is your LP name?
<pleia2> nhandler: lyz
<Ash_R> you earned it
<Joeb454> fwiw, if I had been paying attention I would've +1'd pleia2 :)
<bodhi_zazen> we have 8 minutes to discuss FG :)
<nhandler> pleia2: You have been added to the BT LP team
<pleia2> nhandler: thanks \o/
<Ash_R> shall i go as i have minor thing to announce?
<nhandler> I have to leave. I will read the logs later
<Joeb454> later nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> go Ash_R
<Saj0577> later nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> thanks nhandler
<Joeb454> I have something after as well :)
<Ash_R> The young new user focus group had its first meeting.  Here is the wiki page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/YNU/Meetings/06-28-2009
<bodhi_zazen> SWEET
<Ash_R> thats about it really ;)
<Joeb454> nice
<bodhi_zazen> Thank , I think the YUN FG will be very helpful
<bodhi_zazen> Joeb454: go :)
<sdennie> Excellent Ash_R
<Joeb454> basically, after a meeting amongst the council, we decided to change some settings in the council channel
<Ash_R> though we had to put together a quick channel as it was late notice (10ish minutes) laugh out lud
<Ash_R> loud
<Joeb454> some of you may already be aware, but the channel is now +mz
<Saj0577> +mz meaning?
<Joeb454> basically this means that nobody will be able to speak without voice, however channel operators (i.e. the council) will be able to hear you
<sdennie> Militarized Zone
<bodhi_zazen> +mz == stfu :)
<Joeb454> so if you have a query to raise with the council, they can voice you and you will be heard by all
<bodhi_zazen> j/k
<Joeb454> I'm sure if it turns out to not work as we expect, we can change it back :)
<Joeb454> that's all I think :)
<sdennie> I have something to add to that
<cprofitt> The Educations FG team is still involved in the Ubuntu Community Learning Project. With the guidance that bodhi_zazen is giving it progress is being made in adopting a structure. Legal questions are still being discussed as to the license to use for courses.
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: is too kind
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: Vantrax pleia2 and doctormo deserve more credit then I do
<bodhi_zazen> really
<Joeb454> cprofitt: hopefully they'll get sorted soon
<Joeb454> and sdennie quick, add to what I said before we forget! :)
<cprofitt> it is not an easy topic...
<sdennie> We did this because the council channel was recently a very unfriendly place to be for a few incidents.  There was a lot of name calling and otherwise unfriendliness so, we decided to make it more "sanitary".
<cprofitt> and can be very contentious, but I feel the people involved while strong of opinion are stronger of desire to see the project successful
<bodhi_zazen> juat FYI I am kind of -1 on the whole +mz thing, although I am vulnerable to peer pressure
<bodhi_zazen> I like the channel to be open
<bodhi_zazen> so if there are problems or concerns PLEASE bring them forward
 * bodhi_zazen hides
<bodhi_zazen> other issues ?
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: I agree there, but we'll see how it pans out :) Like I said, I'm happy to change it if needs be
<sdennie> bodhi_zazen: I've turned -1 on the issue because for some reason pidgin doesn't do it right...  ;)
<bodhi_zazen> LOL sdennie
<swoody> I somewhat agree bodhi_zazen I like open channels, but when something 'official' starts in the channel, I think it should go to +mz by default
<bodhi_zazen> just helping nhandler feel better , so he is not the only one swamped with -1
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<sdennie> Haha
<sdennie> Well, if we find it doesn't work, it's easy enough to reverse the change
<sdennie> Or if people don't like it
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<bodhi_zazen> :)
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:01.
<bodhi_zazen> thank you everyone
<Saj0577> 19:01 i wish.
<Ash_R> can we not give it a go and see how we get on with it
<Ash_R> lag...
<lukjad007> Dubie, Dubie, Dooo...
<leoquant> do dun dun do...
<leoquant> du du duuuuu
<lukjad007> Sing siiiiiiing.
 * liw waves
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> hi
<al-maisan> hello there!
<slangasek> morning
<mterry> Hello
<robbiew> cjwatson is on his way...having freenode irc issues
<evand> hi
<robbiew> agenda located here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0701#Agenda
<robbiew> [TOPIC] 8.04.3
<MootBot> New Topic:  8.04.3
<robbiew> hey cjwatson_
<robbiew> just started
<cjwatson_> ah, there it goes, finaly
<cjwatson_> +l
<robbiew> slangasek: is everything "okay" with 8.04.3?
<robbiew> anything you need from folks?...or me?
<slangasek> robbiew: I've had conversations with Zaid and Etienne last week about some bugs that haven't gotten fixed yet for 8.04.3, but that they consider critical to have: #236640, #207072
<robbiew> grrrreat
 * mvo adds a late hi
 * robbiew looks at bug 236640 and bug 207072
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236640 in open-iscsi "iSCSI install fails under hardy" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207072 in nautilus "nautilus does not display samba shares for machines inside an ADS network." [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207072
<slangasek> I've been working on trying to squeeze the first in (iSCSI), but it's pulling teeth to get things tested - need to chase up with the server team
<slangasek> the other I need to talk to Rick about today, for the desktop team
<slangasek> depending on how these fixes play out, I think we need to consider pushing the point release back further to accomodate them
<slangasek> (another week, no more)
<robbiew> hmm
<robbiew> i suppose a week delay is not the end of the world
<cjwatson> that pushes it into debconf, iirc?
<robbiew> hmm...right...I keep forgetting we delayed it already
 * robbiew needs to update his google calendar
<slangasek> cjwatson: Jul 16 - DebCamp, but not DebConf
<robbiew> cjwatson: what is the current planned date for 8.04.3?
<slangasek> currently planned for 9 Jul
<cjwatson> so early debcamp then
<cjwatson> my travel plans for debcamp got a bit torpedoed by various things, so I'm not actually going to make it there until the 21st
<cjwatson> meaning that I'd have no problem being available around the 16th
<slangasek> ok
<robbiew> slangasek: I'll add this to the weekly manager's meeting agenda as well
<robbiew> to make sure Rick and Rick know
<slangasek> robbiew: alright - though I won't be waiting for that before talking to them
<robbiew> heh...understand
<slangasek> the short-term problem is to get the bugs fixed, both of which have been quite intransigent.  One defies backporting, the other still isn't actually fixed in karmic.
<robbiew> ok
<robbiew> so there's also the possibility that we go out next week...if a "fix" for neither looks promising
<robbiew> getting a fix in time, that is
<slangasek> I'm given to believe that's a very bad possibility. :)
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> k
<robbiew> slangasek: anything else around 8.04.3?
<slangasek> not at present; testing feedback of the candidate ISOs seems to be positive
<robbiew> ok, tnaks
<robbiew> thanks :/
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Status
<robbiew> http\://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<robbiew> I've updated the "grand pooba" wiki page with milestones
<robbiew> at least the ones I have...i think I still need to add the multiarch one
<slangasek> cjwatson: you're listed as reviewer of the multiarch spec, and it's still marked for 'review' - do you have any feedback on that so far?
<cjwatson> I think I got most of my review in at UDS - I'll give it another once-over and process the blueprint
<slangasek> (there are a couple of points that discussion has reopened on in Debian, but these are relatively small; I'm happy to notify you as those get resolved, if you like)
<robbiew> I'll start the much-anticipated color coding next week
<robbiew> heh
<mterry> \o/
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Doko topic: handling of component mismatches
<MootBot> New Topic:  Doko topic: handling of component mismatches
<robbiew> doko, around?
<doko> yep
<robbiew> the stage is yours
<robbiew> :)
<doko> just pointing out that component mismaches aren't handled currently
<doko> like the example I did give. most of them are introduced by syncs from debian, so they are less seen.
<cjwatson> I don't think it's fair to go from "there are some component mismatches that I've noticed not being dealt with" to "component mismatches aren't being handled [at all]".
<slangasek> fwiw, what you see there is about a 1.5 weeks of drift I guess
<slangasek> hmm, make that 2.5week
<cjwatson> in a lot of cases, we're somewhat blocked on MIR reviews, though, which I see you have later among your topics
<slangasek> perhaps we should emphasize more to the archive admins that this should get attention on archive days?
<doko> I didn't say "at all". I was just observing
<cjwatson> you said they weren't being handled
<doko> ok, ok ...
<cjwatson> in the cases you give, they are unfortunately blocked on the MIR team as far as I can see ...
<cjwatson> (bug 382692, bug 391375)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382692 in jinja2 "Move python-jinja2 to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382692
<cjwatson> and I do agree that's a problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391375 in llvm "MIR for llvm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391375
<cjwatson> so, a while back we added a bunch of new members to the MIR team in an attempt to unbottleneck that
<cjwatson> doko excepted, are those people not pulling their weight?
<cjwatson> apart from doko, none of them are on this team
<doko> I'll talk to the MIR team, I tried myself to stay away from this for the karmic cycle
<doko> cjwatson: so maybe somebody else from foundations would make sense in the MIR team?
<cjwatson> perhaps, but TBH I feel that the existing people should be able to keep up
<cjwatson> maybe they need to establish some kind of rota so that it isn't always distracting them
<cjwatson> but so that they still get stuff done
<doko> let's try that. will followup next week
<robbiew> ok...did that also cover your MIR topic?
<doko> yes
<robbiew> and the second? handling of the new queue (selfish example: python3.1)
<cjwatson> if the people on that team feel they need to be replaced, we can do that; if they genuinely feel they're pulling their weight but just aren't managing to keep up, then that would suggest adding more people
<doko> and somebody did work on NEW while we were talking ;)
<cjwatson> I might have seen the agenda item ;-)
<doko> heh
<cjwatson> NEW seems to be backing up a bit, although not *too* badly
<cjwatson> the oldest thing there is an outlier source package at 12 days; everything else is a week or newer
<cjwatson> 67 items in all right now (binaries tend to show up as several items, one per architecture)
<cjwatson> so not as fast as it might be, but not cause for immediate alarm I think - did you try contacting archive admins on their archive days first?
<james_w> I could do a "half-day" on Monday before slangasek gets up to help clear the weekend backlog. Steve, what do you think?
<doko> would it make sense (for stuff like MIR, NEW) to mention processing these after some milestones explicitely?
<cjwatson> I don't have an archive day right now; maybe I should do that half-day
<slangasek> oh, that would definitely make a difference
<cjwatson> oh, nor does James :)
<cjwatson> how about I do some on Wednesday to supplement Dustin, since (a) he's on a different timezone (b) he's listed as just syncs and bug processing?
<slangasek> I was thinking that I should swap days with Riddell or StevenK so that someone farther east can get a jump on the week, but this would work as well
 * kirkland would much appreciate that, as wednesdays have been particularly bad for him :-(
 * james_w adds himself to the wiki page
 * robbiew sheds a tear over seeing such great teamwork
<robbiew> okay....moving on :P
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
<robbiew> I see Keybuk is meeting his goal of zero this week...heh
<Keybuk> :D
<Keybuk> I'm quite happy to do 1/5th less work a week if you like <g>
<robbiew> he and I are tied :/
<robbiew> sponsorship queue processing is "work"....but I know what you mean
<robbiew> I'd generally like to see folks doing some sponsorship work, but also understand that we have features to deliver and bugs to fix....it's finding the balance between the two that's tricky
<slangasek> I'm conscious of my own delinquence over the past couple of weeks, and will play catch-up soon
<robbiew> no worries...I'm not worried about it....yet ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<robbiew> US holiday this Friday...whoohoo!
<robbiew> whoa...a lot of folks just left
<cjwatson> netsplit/rejoin
<evand> netsplit
<Keybuk> robbiew: my problem is that I'm in the group of people who can't just "go and do something else for 20 minutes"
<robbiew> Keybuk: ack
<Keybuk> a 20 minute interruption can lose me an entire day of work
<Keybuk> because I'll never get back into what I was doing
<Keybuk> this is basically the reason I switch all the notifications for things like IRC and e-mail off ;)
<robbiew> any Good News?
<liw> the world didn't end yet
<cjwatson> mm, I find sponsorship works better for me at the start or end of the day
<doko> back
<cjwatson> as a get-brain-moving or wind-down activity
<cjwatson> archive admin's sort of similar for me
<mvo> yeah, for me too (wind-down usually)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<robbiew> slangasek: you're out tomorrow and Friday, right?
<slangasek> yes
<robbiew> do we need coverage for the release meeting?
<slangasek> cjwatson agreed to cover; I'll be sending him notes today on what I use to pull together the agenda
<Keybuk> cjwatson: the end of my day is usually suddenly stoping coding at the words "dinner's ready!"
<cjwatson> slangasek: which means I know what I'm doing tomorrow :)
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> okay...that's all I got
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:52.
<robbiew> 8 minutes to spare!
<slangasek> :)
<liw> thanks
<al-maisan> Bye!
<evand> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<heno> hello everyone
<fader> Howdy
<cr3> hidy ho
<heno> lots of people out today for various reasons
<heno> but let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights
<heno> can anyone comment on this? pedro is travelling
<ara> hello
<heno> hey ara
<heno> ogasawara: perhaps you want to give an update on kernel bug days?
<ogasawara> heno: they're still going great, with good participation from each of the kernel devs
<ogasawara> heno: our focus now is to get more community participation
<heno> ogasawara: are they themed?
<heno> and when is the next one?
<ogasawara> heno: yes, they'll target for ex bugs with patches attached.
<ogasawara> heno: the next one is Tues July 7 - likely to target wifi bugs
<heno> ok, great
<heno> thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> Thanks to exe, Shahar Or, Evan Broder, Mika PflÃ¼ger, Magnus Hjorth, and Neil Hoggarth fortesting various SRU fixes this week.
<sbeattie> 8.04.3 SRU work continues, the list is getting smaller, but we could still use somehelp on the hardware specific ones.
<heno> my calendar says 8.04.3 is tomorrow, has that changed?
<sbeattie> also re: 8.04.3, I expect iso testing to formally begin soon given we expect to release on july 9th
<sbeattie> heno: july 9th based on the hardy schedule in the wiki, I thought
<sbeattie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<heno> that's probably true then. the calendar entry says TBC
<sbeattie> ah
<heno> sbeattie: many hw-specific issues outstanding?
<sbeattie> (I've been informally testing the iso images to verify some of the installer fixes that have landed)
<sbeattie> Yeah, hw-specific issues are pretty much unchanged.
<heno> how many images are we expecting?
<sbeattie> just the ubuntu ones.
<heno> just server or desktops too?
<sbeattie> desktops as well, I believe..
<sbeattie> (they've been respinning)
<heno> still, not too bad
<heno> ok, thanks sbeattie
<heno> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Developer Week -- ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Developer Week -- ogasawara
<ogasawara> just a sec, getting the link
<ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<ogasawara> After chatting with the community team I just want to mention that UDW is coming up
<ogasawara> If anyone is interested in leading a session, please sign up!
<heno> seems we are already well-represented
<heno> cr3, sbeattie: anything you feel you'd like to present?
<heno> cr3: metrics attachments for fun and profit perhaps?
<cr3> heno: sure, checkbox!
<cr3> heno: yep, I'll thing of a topic relating to checkbox
<heno> ok, great
<artir> ogasawara: what about a pyclutter tutorial ;)?
<artir> I can do it
<artir> no, I can't
<artir> :(, I'm without a PC till 5 of september
<ogasawara> artir:  heh, oops
<heno> how to sign up? contact jcastro?
<ogasawara> artir: maybe next time
<artir> but I can give the tutorial and all the stuff to other guy
<ogasawara> heno: I'd say probably best to run your idea by jcastro or dholbach first before taking a slot
<artir> this is quite important since there aren't any good pyclutter tutorials out there
<artir> and clutter is very cool
<heno> artir: perhaps work on the docs this time and present next time?
<heno> next topic ...
<artir> Giving the pyclutter talk is not so complex
<heno> [TOPIC] Presenting http://mago.ubuntu.com/
<MootBot> New Topic:  Presenting http://mago.ubuntu.com/
<ara> Yes, we have a brand new site for the Mago project
<heno> let's give some applause to ara for heading up the Mago project and setting up the site!
<heno> it will be officially presented next Wednesday at the desktop summit
<ogasawara> ara: nice work!
<sbeattie> yay ara! nice work!
 * fader applauds.
<heno> a who wiki for us to fill with useful testing automation docs :)
<heno> any other meeting topics?
<artir> mago means wizard/magician in spanish :P
<ara> artir: ;-)
<heno> because it makes things magically appear on your desktop :)
<cr3> heno: good, I'd be worried if it magically made things disappear :)
<heno> it can do that too
<cr3> "now you see it, rm -fr /, now you don't"
<artir> lol
<fader> What's Spanish for "evil wizard"?
 * heno copies that command to test
<artir> Mago Malvado
<artir> :p
<artir> or Mago Maligno
<fader> :)
<heno> kidding
<artir> alias evil_wizard="rm -rf"
<artir> :P
<heno> ok, I think were done
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:25.
<heno> thanks all!
<cr3> cheerio
<ara> cheers
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-02
<ttx> anyone around for the Java team meeting ?
<evanrmurphy> RicardoPerez: Â¡Has llegado! :)
<RicardoPerez> evanrmurphy: por poco... I've a great headache!
* adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 15.00 UTC - Ubuntu Translations Meeting
<evanrmurphy> RicardoPerez: Ugh, headaches are the worst. Sorry to hear that.
<evanrmurphy> RicardoPerez: Perhaps we can discuss that issue early on in the meeting, then. Or we can always just drop an email to the ubuntu-translators mailing list, as you suggested from the beginning.
<evanrmurphy> I'd be happy to raise it myself except that unfortunately I'm not sure I'd be able to explain the problem clearly.
<RicardoPerez> evanrmurphy: well, we can talk about the jaunty -> karmic translations dumping with adi & david...
<evanrmurphy> sounds good
<RicardoPerez> I'll try it :)
<RicardoPerez> we'll try it *
<evanrmurphy> :)
<dpm> hi everybody!
<ArneGoetje> hi folks!
<RicardoPerez> dpm: hi ;)
<adiroiban> ola :)
<danilos> hi guys :)
<evanrmurphy> morning!
<RicardoPerez> well, hi and "hola" to everyone :)
<dpm> how are you all guys doing?
<henninge> Hallo!
<dpm> be very welcome to the first Ubuntu Translations meeting ever ;) !
<dpm> \o/
<Quintasan> \o
<RicardoPerez> we're history! :P
* adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 15.00 UTC - Ubuntu Translations Meeting - Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/Events/Meetings
 * evanrmurphy does a slow clap
<dpm> thanks Adi for taking care of the topic changes
<dpm> we've got the Launchpad Translations team and Arne Goetje with us, and hopefully a whole bunch of translators and folks interested in translating Ubuntu as well
<dpm> I'm not sure how many of us are there, but I don't think there will be need for moderation
<dpm> therefore, please feel free to interrupt whenever you want to ask or comment anything
<danilos> yeah, hello all from LP Translations team, here represented by henninge and me :)
 * dpm claps loudly
<henninge> yeah, jtv went to bed already...
<henninge> ;-)
<evanrmurphy> RicardoPerez, fmolinero and I are here representing the Ubuntu Spanish Translators.
<dpm> great
<dpm> fantÃ¡stico
<evanrmurphy> :)
<RicardoPerez> hehe
<ArneGoetje> and for those who don't know me, I'm doing the technical stuff regarding language-pack building.
<RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: great work!
<evanrmurphy> +1
 * dpm applauds Arne as well
<adiroiban> dpm: feel free to hit the first topic
<dpm> ok, shall we get started?
<dpm> == Opening of Karmic translations ==
<adiroiban> yep. so message sharing is up and running ?
<dpm> The LP Translations team is working very hard in opening the Karmic translations
<danilos> ok, I'll share more details
<danilos> internally, karmic translations are up and sharing with jaunty
<henninge> yeah!
<ArneGoetje> \o/
<danilos> we are currently in the process of importing all translations from packages into karmic before we can start producing karmic language packs and allow translations to happen
<RicardoPerez> I wonder if a translation made in Jaunty now will be copied to Karmic
<dpm> just a sec, does everyone here knows what message sharing is?
<danilos> there are a lot of files to import (~35k, we've already done around 10k)
 * Quintasan raises his hand at dpm's question\\
<danilos> RicardoPerez: that's what message sharing is all about: in short, they will be shared between different series (like Jaunty and Karmic)
<danilos> RicardoPerez: so, as soon as you translate one string in Jaunty, if it's in Karmic, it will appear as translated there as well; and vice versa
<RicardoPerez> dpm, danilos: oh, great! I don't know what message sharing is
<danilos> RicardoPerez: heh, see above :)
<danilos> you can talk to me on #launchpad if you want more details afterwards
<dpm> And this works both ways! I can translate the string in Jaunty and it will automatically appear translated in Karmic.
<RicardoPerez> danilos: so, if I translate a string in Jaunty, that translation will be copied in Karmic even several weeks ago since the Karmic translations opening?
<evanrmurphy> I wasn't familiar either, but that sounds really efficient.
<dpm> RicardoPerez: ^
<RicardoPerez> I asked a question already answered :)
<danilos> RicardoPerez: yes
<dpm> And for the moment, sharing will only be enabled for Karmic and Jaunty
<RicardoPerez> well, that sounds really great
<fmolinero> great
<evanrmurphy> Is message sharing a new feature?
<danilos> anyway, Jaunty and Karmic will initially be the only shared Ubuntu releases (and all future ones), but we'll slowly enable it for Intrepid and Hardy as well
<henninge> evanrmurphy: yes
<dpm> evanrmurphy: yes, starting with Karmic
<danilos> evanrmurphy: yeah, it has not even been announced yet properly :)
<dpm> This will be announced in more detail in due time, but for Ubuntu translators the important thing to have in mind is that this feature will start being used for the first time in Karmic,
<evanrmurphy> how exciting!
<dpm> so it is very important to get it tested throughout the development cycle, and if you see any bug in translations, you should report it soon
<danilos> exactly!
<RicardoPerez> is there a "lag" or latency between the string is translated into Jaunty and the translation being copied to Karmic?
<danilos> anyway, back to the topic :)
<RicardoPerez> oh, sorry about the offtopic
<danilos> Karmic translations will be open sometime next week, as soon as imports are done
<dpm> \o/
<henninge> RicardoPerez: no lag, it is instant
<RicardoPerez> henninge: thanks! that's great
<danilos> when that happens, we'll also start producing language pack tarballs which ArneGoetje will package for everybody to play with
<danilos> are there any questions about Karmic opening, or shall we move on? :)
<dpm> let's move on then, we've got a long agenda :)
<RicardoPerez> congrats to the superb work
<dpm> == Kubuntu translations ==
<dpm> After what we talked at UDS, we've kickstarted the process of making Kubuntu translations ...
<dpm> ... well, rock!
<dpm> We're working with the Kubuntu devs to sort out some technical issues we've had with KDE translations and Launchpad Translations, and I'm pretty excited about the outcome.
<dpm> For those interested in the gory details, you can follow this thread later on -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-June/002964.html
 * ScottK is glad to see the progress.
<dpm> The first step is to make sure the translation templates we've got in Launchpad match those in KDE
<dpm> so that Kubuntu users don't get untranslated applications as it's happened in the past
<evanrmurphy> I'm glad to see progress here too, always feel like I have to tiptoe around KDE translations.
<dpm> yes, we will welcome the help of anyone interested or experienced in Kubuntu/KDE translations
<dpm> translators, devs, etc
<dpm> feel free to participate in the discussion on the kubuntu-devel@ list or at ubuntu-translators@
<dpm> or to put any related items in the agenda for the next meeting
<dpm> Also we're also planning a Kubuntu Translations Day on #kubuntu-devel, which will probably be in about a month's time (final date to be announced).
<dpm> any feedback will be welcome
<dpm> Are there any particular issues/comments you'd like to discuss right now?
<dpm> related to Kubuntu translations?
<adiroiban> so right now arne is renaming and moving templates?
<ArneGoetje> yes
<danilos> ArneGoetje: for that to work better with message sharing, can you make sure you rename jaunty templates at the same time? or just provide us a list and we can do a bulk rename
<ArneGoetje> danilos: No, this is about the changes between Jaunty and Karmic. the templates in Jaunty have to stay like they are.
<adiroiban> ArneGoetje: If you need help with Kubuntu let me know and see how we can coordinate
<Quintasan> The deadline for translation is 15th of October?
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: will do
<dpm> Quintasan: the you can see the release schedule here -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<dpm> Quintasan: the two important deadlines are Oct 15th and Oct 22nd
<adiroiban> for the Karmic approval, should we start to work on them now, or wait until the translations are opened
<adiroiban> ?
<ArneGoetje> Quintasan: in general, we will build the final language-packs about one week before release. Everything what comes in later than that goes into the updates.
 * Quintasan starts preparation for translating then
<dpm> ArneGoetje: I think you might be best suited to answer Adi's question
<danilos> adiroiban: I think ArneGoetje emailed utc team with that
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: if you are talking about the approvals in the import queue, you can start now. However, be careful with KDE related templates. We need to check back with kubuntu-devel on what to do with them.
<dpm> thanks Arne. Ok, shall we move on?
<adiroiban> ArneGoetje: I will not touch KDE for now, but I will handle the others (mainly help and man files)
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: also, I want to review the oo.o templates with Chris Cheney, so better don't touch them either for now.
<adiroiban> ok
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: help and man get blocked, we cannot handle them in language-packs.
<adiroiban> yep, I know, and those are the easiest one to handle in the "needs review" list
<adiroiban> from my point of view we can continue
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: heh
<dpm> ok, thanks
<dpm> == Language pack update policy ==
<dpm> Something else we talked about at UDS was about the regular language pack releases
<dpm> for stable releases
<dpm> they are usually uploaded to the -proposed repository
<dpm> and then to -updates, where they are made available for all users
<dpm> in order to move them from -proposed to -updates, we need some testing and feedback
<dpm> in order to avoid crashes, regressions, etc
<danilos> (to explain that further: "for stable releases" means after Karmic is released)
<dpm> yes
<ArneGoetje> also for existing stable releases (Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty).
<RicardoPerez> Dapper, too?
<dpm> Is Dapper still in Launchpad?
<evanrmurphy> yep
<ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: no, we don't provide language-pack updates for Dapper anymore, because noone tests them.
<danilos> dpm: if it's supported, it is :)
<dpm> ah yes, I see it now
<RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: ok
<adiroiban> for my point of view we can continue with the current policy and procees. Arne will announce on the Ubuntu Translators MP the new packages in proposed (maybe also a post on planet) and people will test and ping arne if everything is OK
<adiroiban> or open bugs if there are problems
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: unfortunately that hasn't worked well in the past. I didn't get any response at all.
<adiroiban> ArneGoetje: I know
<dpm> adiroiban: yes, and that's what we were discussing in the UDS session
<adiroiban> but In that case we should not update that language
<danilos> yeah, "if you do not sign off on a proposed language pack for your language, it will not be promoted"
<dpm> I've started a (still very crude) page to document the process and to track signoffs from users/translators -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/LanguagePackUpdatesQA
<ArneGoetje> +1
<RicardoPerez> adiroiban: well, sometimes "no response" means "tested and nothing was wrong, so its good" :)
<adiroiban> it will be hard to find people to test translations for LTS
<danilos> RicardoPerez: that is fine for development releases
<evanrmurphy> adiroiban: Why is that?
<adiroiban> RicardoPerez: but may also imply that nobody had review it
<dpm> adiroiban: yes, but we must start from somewhere and we can focus on stable releases first
<RicardoPerez> adiroiban: yes, that's right, too
<dpm> an option might be to use virtual images for LTS
<dpm> I mean for testing them
<adiroiban> evanrmurphy: most translators are using stable or dev on their system... and is hard to install or test LTS
 * evanrmurphy nods
<dpm> but the point is that we should take a mora active approach to get signoffs for updates
<ArneGoetje> I think it's not a big deal to use Virtualbox or another VM and run a copy of Hardy, Intrepid or Jaunty in there and test the language-packs... I do that myself.
<adiroiban> but that would be just a very thin smoke test
<RicardoPerez> the Ubuntu Translators Teams could be a good starting point for langpack testing
<dpm> yes, and I think if we only upload those packages which have been explicitly signed off will encourage other teams to provide signoffs as well
<adiroiban> I consider a translation-update teste after testing it for at least one day of regular usage
<adiroiban> like starting firefox,  setting up pidgin, evolution
<danilos> adiroiban: we should not strive for perfection right away
<adiroiban> :)
<danilos> adiroiban: but, if we can come up with a good checklist of things to check for, that will be more than enough
<dpm> adiroiban: yes, that's something you can put in there https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/LanguagePackUpdatesQA
<adiroiban> then just put the packates into -updates and wait for bug report
<danilos> adiroiban: sometimes translations cause security problems, and that's not something ubuntu developers want to allow
<danilos> adiroiban: I somehow remember you being in a UDS session about this as well :)
<RicardoPerez> if I (suppose) tested the proposed langpacks and see that they're good, how can I send my feedback and to whom?
<adiroiban> but a thin smoketest will not detect those security problems
<adiroiban> and most translators testers are not the right person to do the security testing
<danilos> adiroiban: others have caused some apps to be completely untranslated
<dpm> RicardoPerez: we can track them in the wiki page above, you can just add your team to the list
<danilos> adiroiban: it's mostly about testing for regressions in translations
<RicardoPerez> dpm: sounds good
<dpm> And each upload to -proposed will be notified to ubuntu-translators@
<dpm> so that translators/users know when they can start testing
<RicardoPerez> great, that's exactly what it must be done :)
<evanrmurphy> dpm: That will be helpful.
<dpm> I know it's not a perfect process in which it is not very automated, but we can try to refine it as we go along
<adiroiban> ok. let's see if we can improve something
<evanrmurphy> Strict signoffs make me nervous because it adds another hurdle to translation implementation.
<evanrmurphy> But QA is very important.
<adiroiban> but my view is that if we are only going to run some smoke test on translations, it's better to just copy them to -updates
<adiroiban> as the smoke test will not be of much help
<dpm> evanrmurphy: yes, but crashes and untranslated apps are annoying for users (to say the least)
<RicardoPerez> regression issues for me are the worst, and I always take a deep look about that after a new langpacks update
<danilos> adiroiban: well, translation updates can cause crashes as well, those can easily be detected by a quick test
<ScottK> Enough people run with -proposed enabled that even without formal testing you'll get some signficant benifit.
<dpm> ScottK: yes, but we have to somehow know that people are using -updates
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: no. in the past we had cases where the -proposed packages had a bug that caused firefox end up untranslated. We don't want to have those in -updates.
<evanrmurphy> RicardoPerez: That's good to know!
<adiroiban> Maybe, rather that ask translators to test proposed, we should ask for using the weekly lang-packs
<RicardoPerez> a weak test is better than no test at all
<adiroiban> in this way we can detect errors earliers
<adiroiban> early
<RicardoPerez> +1 for the weekly langpacks
<danilos> adiroiban: that's orthogonal to that... using weekly builds is recommended for any active translators
<dpm> adiroiban: yes, we can do this additionally as well
<RicardoPerez> weekly langpacks has been very useful in the past
<adiroiban> I'm using the weekly builds for the current stable release
<danilos> adiroiban: but, if there's no actual input, how do you know that someone is using them, and they haven't said anything, or that nobody is using them?
<danilos> anyway, this is a topic that can be rehashed a bit more
<adiroiban> ok
<danilos> let's talk about it some more next week, and move on to Ubuntu Translations Project
<adiroiban> we can continue on the mailing list
<dpm> yes
<RicardoPerez> is there a jaunty weekly langpacks=
<RicardoPerez> ?
<adiroiban> it should
<danilos> adiroiban: next topic is yours :)
<dpm> Ricardo: yes
<dpm> == Ubuntu Translations Project (AdiRoiban) ==
<adiroiban> :)
<adiroiban> is ours :)
<adiroiban> ok
<ArneGoetje> ok, about bug reporting: I think it's best to *not* report bugs abainst the language-packs themselves (too many of them!), but rather open a bug in the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker.
<adiroiban> I agree
<adiroiban> so we have Ubuntu Translation as a hub for all l10n/i18n issues
<ArneGoetje> yes
<RicardoPerez> I would like to point about the many many i18n bugreports I opened in the past
<adiroiban> and also to leverage Rosetta of Ubuntu problems
<ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: against which packages?
<evanrmurphy> ArneGoetje: Where is the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker? It's not this (https://launchpad.net/utbb), is it?
<RicardoPerez> many times a i18n issue is marked as a "low" priority
<ArneGoetje> evanrmurphy: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
<RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: I always posted i18n bugreports against the "problematic" apps
<danilos> RicardoPerez: that's why there's a team and a project now to better coordinate that and poke other developers :)
<RicardoPerez> not against the langpack itself
<danilos> RicardoPerez: i18n bugs are bugs in applications, you should just tag them with i18n and file them against applications
<RicardoPerez> danilos: that sounds great!
<ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: if you file them against each individual pkg, then I most likely won't see them...
<RicardoPerez> danilos: that's right, that's the way I use
<danilos> ArneGoetje: oh, sorry, I may have misunderstood the idea behind ubuntu-translations project
<RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: that's right... so what should be the process when I want to post a i18n bugrepot?
<danilos> RicardoPerez: the problem is with notifications: there is no way to subscribe to a tag in Launchpad bugs, so that's probably why ArneGoetje wants bugs filed against this new project
<ArneGoetje> danilos: well, if it's really a bug in the app, then that's ok. But if it is a bug with translations, then please use the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker.
<adiroiban> yes. the big problem is with tag notification
<RicardoPerez> oh, great... so I should post the bugreport against the app and the new project itself, doesn't it?
<danilos> RicardoPerez: you can just add a bugtask against the project as well
<adiroiban> RicardoPerez: or just add "ubuntu-translations" in "Also affected" field
<ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: yes, that would be better. just add the project. Then we will know there is something going on.
<dpm> can't we do both? Assign it to the app, tag it and assign it to ubuntu-translations
<dpm> oops, sorrz, alreadz answered
<ArneGoetje> dpm: yes
<adiroiban> so we have Ubuntu Translation as a central hub for i18n/l10n issues
<RicardoPerez> great... all the three at the same time :)
<adiroiban> and try to work arround Launchpad limitations
 * ArneGoetje grins
<RicardoPerez> what's the Ubuntu Translation project name in Launchpad?
<RicardoPerez> I can't find it
<henninge> untuntu-translatoins
<henninge> untuntu-translations
<danilos> RicardoPerez: quoted above, "ubuntu-translations"
<dpm> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
<RicardoPerez> oh, great, I mean "ubuntu-translation"
<adiroiban> beside filling bugs
<adiroiban> we should also handle bug triage
<RicardoPerez> I think we should comment the above bugfilling process in the ubuntu-translators @
<RicardoPerez> so anybody knows
<adiroiban> I can take some time and write a wikipage about bug reporting and bug triage
<ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: yes, will do
<dpm> I agree, we should announce it and promote it more
<evanrmurphy> I agree as well.
<adiroiban> but beside translators, developers and people from 5aDay should be aware of it
<dpm> good point
<RicardoPerez> can we do anything about the "low priority by default" problem in the i18n bugreports?
<adiroiban> RicardoPerez: i don't think so
<adiroiban> just try to persuate developers to incerease the bug...
<RicardoPerez> that's a pity, because not always a i18n issue should be considered a low priority one...
<danilos> dpm, adiroiban, ArneGoetje: it should also go to a Ubuntu translation instructions as linked from all the translate pages on Launchpad
<dpm> danilos: yes, it should be documented
<danilos> RicardoPerez: sometimes you can push them upstream and have them fixed there
<adiroiban> danilos: where is that? :)
<Spike1506> com&
<RicardoPerez> danilos: that's right. I needed to do that in the past sometimes
<dpm> anyway, we're running late. I propose to leave it here and move the topis left to the next meeting in two weeks time
<adiroiban> ok
<RicardoPerez> great
<dpm> thank you all for the great discussion
<adiroiban> just a small comment, I think we should continue the discussion on the ML
<adiroiban> and not leave them until next meeting
<dpm> adiroiban: of course, feel free to do that as well
<adiroiban> right now I don't see to much activity on the translators mailinglist
<adiroiban> :)
<evanrmurphy> don't forget we have #ubuntu-translators as well
<evanrmurphy> discussion can be had there and then copied to the ML
<adiroiban> ok
<dpm> ok, shall we leave it here then?
<RicardoPerez> ubuntu-translators/ubuntu-translations...
<RicardoPerez> ok
<evanrmurphy> Great talking with all of you today, turns out we have a pretty lively group!
<dpm> cool
 * henninge bounces around lively ...
* adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 16.00 UTC - Ubuntu Mobile Meeting
<dpm> thank you all!
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<RicardoPerez> thanks to everybody!
<henninge> dpm, adiroiban: thanks!
<adiroiban> yep. looking forward for reading you :)
<evanrmurphy> henninge: lol
<evanrmurphy> Thanks all!
<evanrmurphy> Can we dedicate a section of the wiki to copies of these meeing logs?
<evanrmurphy> s/meeing/meeting/
<dpm> sure, I'll take care of that
<evanrmurphy> dpm: awesome!
<RicardoPerez> see you!
<Ddorda> did the translators meeting has over?
<RoAkSoAx> Ddorda, yes, long time ago
<Ddorda> =\ how sad.. i juts had no idea when it is..
<Ddorda> where can i see the logging?
<Ddorda> oh.. nvrm :P
<nhandler> Ddorda: Try irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Ddorda> it's in the topic
<ogra> what does 16:00 UTC do in the topic ?
* ogra changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
 * ogra fixes
<Ddorda> there were only 3 people on the meeting?
<Ddorda> that very bad =\ most of the translators didn't even knew about it...
<Ddorda> is there any rss for the news, that i'll can be announced next time?
<ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090702
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090702
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<NCommander> who's here?
<paulliu> Hi
<plars> me
<lool> hey
<NCommander> hola lool
 * NCommander pokes ogra
 * ogra bleeds
<davidm> HI NCommander
<NCommander> hey davidm
<ogra> dont you take the stick with the tip !
<lool> GrueMaster, dyfet  poke
<lool> No stevenk
 * NCommander duct tapes ogra 
<ogra> heh
<GrueMaster> Poke back at you.
<NCommander> I'll give it another minute
<mcasadevall> bah
<mcasadevall> Laptop hung
<NCommander> There
 * NCommander face palms
<NCommander> My laptop isn't quite dead it seems ...
<NCommander> hi StevenK
<NCommander> So who else isn't here?
 * StevenK shores
 * NCommander didn't know shores was a verb
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<ogra> NCommander, en_AU
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<NCommander> c/o yet again
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]
<GrueMaster> ditto
<NCommander> [topic] # StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week
<MootBot> New Topic:  # StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week
<lool> We had a meeting about this with kyleN
<lool> It clarified how we'll handle translations
<lool> kyleN wants to have translations in the upstream project but by the Ubuntu translators
<lool> He's discussing that with them
<lool> and he will complete the spec
<lool> StevenK: Anything else?
<StevenK> So we're waiting for him
<StevenK> We should have more information about it next meeting, so please carry it over
<NCommander> [action] StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week
 * NCommander kicks the wiki
<NCommander> [topic] plars to draft and implement mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<MootBot> New Topic:  plars to draft and implement mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<plars> drafted, yes, implemented - in progress
<lool> NCommander: Didn't we skip a couple of action items?
<NCommander> lool, those should be under spec review
<lool> Which looked confusing, but still
<lool> Hmm ok
<NCommander> lool, I think I accidently c/p'ed part of the minutes when I made the AR list
 * ogra would like an agenda link too :)
<lool> Dropped from action items
<NCommander> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090702
<NCommander> thanks lool
<NCommander> Sorry about that folks
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> [topic] New Meeting Time Revote
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Meeting Time Revote
<NCommander> [topic] New meeting day only
<MootBot> New Topic:  New meeting day only
<NCommander> I've heard candidates for both Thursday and Tuesday
<NCommander> Anyone want to put forth anything new?
<davidm> Any reason why not Wednesday?
<davidm> Just wondering
<StevenK> Which ends up being Thursday for me.
<lool> I personally would like to keep a day between IRC and phone meetings to avoid stupid combinations
 * StevenK hides
<NCommander> davidm, no one suggested it ;-)
<NCommander> We could just vote on each day of the week ;-)
<NCommander> Alright
<NCommander> [vote] Keep the meetings on Thursday
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Keep the meetings on Thursday.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> on wed the meeting channel is quite empty
<lool> (I think Friday and Monday are preferably avoided due our timezone coverage_
<plars> are we assuming that it would be at the same time?
<davidm> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from davidm. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<ogra> tue is usually pretty full
<lool> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from lool. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<NCommander> plars, we're voting for the time and day separatel
<GrueMaster> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from GrueMaster. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<NCommander> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from NCommander. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<StevenK> 0
<ogra> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from ogra. 2 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<StevenK> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK. 2 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<plars> vote +0
<lool> ogra: We can find another place, that's ok
<plars> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from plars. 2 for, 3 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<NCommander> plars, do +0, +1, or -1
<NCommander> SteveA, the bot didn't get you
<NCommander> er, StevenK
<NCommander> and my laptop's filesystem just did a bunk
 * ogra would rather stay wthin the ubuntu meetin conventions
<StevenK> [07:14] < MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK.
<plars> no, it got stevek though
<NCommander> oh, ok
<lool> 9 votes
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 3 against. 3 abstained. Total: -1
<NCommander> oh wow
<NCommander> my /home on my laptop broke fsck ...
<GrueMaster> Ok, so not Thursday.  Vote for Tuesday?
<NCommander> [vote] Wednesday's for meeting day
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Wednesday's for meeting day.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> doit
<NCommander> +1
<plars> are we assuming you can vote in any/all of these?
<MootBot> +1 received from NCommander. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lool> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from lool. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<ogra> +1
<NCommander> plars, yeah
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<StevenK> +0
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<plars> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from plars. 3 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<GrueMaster> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from GrueMaster. 3 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
<NCommander> so who else hasn't voted?
<davidm> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from davidm. 4 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dyfet_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dyfet_. 5 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<NCommander> That's 9
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 1 against. 3 abstained. Total: 4
<NCommander> [vote] Moving the meetings to Tuesdays
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Moving the meetings to Tuesdays.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<StevenK> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from StevenK. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
 * ogra would like to hear why lool was against
<lool> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lool. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<NCommander> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from NCommander. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ogra> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<davidm> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from davidm. 3 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<plars> oh
<plars> I thought we just voted on tuesday
<plars> darn
<plars> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from plars. 4 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<lool> plars: Were you in favor or against Wed or didn't care?
<GrueMaster> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from GrueMaster. 5 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<NCommander> Who didn't vote?
<dyfet_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dyfet_. 6 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<plars> lool: I was against wednesday, I had seen GrueMaster suggesting to vote for tuesday and thought that's what we were voting on
<lool> NCommander: endvote?
<lool> 9 votes
<GrueMaster> plars: doesn't matter.  Tuesday beat Wednessday, 6-5.
<GrueMaster> Or 5-4
<davidm> I think Tuesday beat Wednesday
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
<NCommander> I'm against Tuesday because it means we need to move the time or move the place
<lool> [agreed] Moving meetings to Tuesday
<davidm> Well Tuesday just became the day
<StevenK> We could move the IRC meeting forward a few hours. That would work for me. :-P
<lool> NCommander: It's not terribly hard, we can have them on #ubuntu-mobile or mobile-meeting
<davidm> Now the time
<NCommander> [action] New meeting day to become Tuesday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  New meeting day to become Tuesday
<NCommander> [topic] New meeting time
<MootBot> New Topic:  New meeting time
<NCommander> Candidates: Current Time
<NCommander> Please uggest any other ones you may wish
<davidm> Problem is we span from OZ to the West coast of the US
<NCommander> davidm, the issue at the moment is on tuesdays we bump up against other meets
<GrueMaster> NCommander: What times are available Tuesdays?
<ogra> not many
<GrueMaster> Maybe that would make things easier.
<ogra> there are a lot rotating meetings
<ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<lool> I think we should pick the best time(s) and decide of the location afterwards
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<lool> It doesn't matter not to use #ubuntu-meeting
<NCommander> [idea] 22:00 UTC
<MootBot> IDEA received:  22:00 UTC
 * ogra thinks it does
<lool> It's late
<NCommander> Not a huge fan, but it does move the meetings out of the way
<lool> ogra: what for?
<ogra> for predictability
<ogra> for being in sync with all the other teams
<lool> ogra: So we will stick with the new place
<StevenK> IE, 22:00 UTC is in 35 minutes
<ogra> thats 00:00 here
<davidm> Thanks StevenK
<ogra> (and in france)
<lool> We're using different chans all the time I don't see a big deal with using a different chan for meetings
<davidm> That is a bit late
<lool> I don't mind midnight if we rotate
<GrueMaster> lool: some community members may need to be in other meetings.
<davidm> what about 20:00?
<ogra> yeah
<lool> GrueMaster: They can raise their voice and be heard now or bring it up if it affects them
<lool> GrueMaster: anybody in particular?
<davidm> can we find two different times that work and rotate?
<NCommander> maybe we should vote on place before time
<GrueMaster> none that I personally know of.
<StevenK> Ugh, I don't like 20:00
<plars> NCommander: I think one implies the other
<lool> 20 UTC is ugly for StevenK and paulliu
<NCommander> I'm going to put using #ubuntu-meeting to a vote, just because if we decide not to, then the time question is at least easier
<paulliu> Yeah, but I'm ok.
<NCommander> any objections?
<lool> Yeah, I think it's not the right thing to do
<paulliu> Since it's impossible to make everyone happy. Just vote.
<lool> Picking a time affects us all strongly, picking a place not at all
<davidm> OK we need a time[s] make it ugly for paulliu and Stevenk one month/week and ugly for GrueMaster  at the other perhaps
<lool> +1 for davidm
<NCommander> lool, the place question at least frees up times that we wouldn't have this room available
 * GrueMaster is already ugly.  time won't matter.
<lool> NCommander: It does not, it puts the important topic between a rock and a hard place
<ogra> could we vonte on moving GrueMaster to .au ?
<davidm> NCommander, from my point of view where does not matter time effects people far more
<GrueMaster> +10
<ogra> :)
<StevenK> Haha
<NCommander> How about just moving the Mobile team to a single timezone
<StevenK> How about Cairns, Queensland?
 * StevenK waits for davidm to vote +100000000
<lool> What about current time, or current time minus 12 hours
<davidm> I suggested that we need the join the flat earth sociality
<lool> One week out of two, or one month
<davidm> I like Cairns
<davidm> A LOT
<ogra> davidm, ++++++
<NCommander> Preferably Alaskian time zone. :-)
<ogra> (on discworld)
<paulliu> North pole?? There's no time.
<NCommander> oh come on
<NCommander> I can't be the only one who wants to move to alaska
<ogra> and not much distraction
<GrueMaster> We need a ringworld.  Get the foundations team on it.
<NCommander> Ok then
<NCommander> [vote] Keeping the meeting time as is
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Keeping the meeting time as is.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<lool> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lool. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<ogra> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<MootBot> Private abstention received. 0 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Count is now 0
<davidm> 12:00 would be one time that would shift towards putting GrueMaster in a bad time
<StevenK> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<plars> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from plars. 1 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lool> davidm: I proposed earlier 10pm UTC and 10am UTC, rotating
<GrueMaster> 0
<GrueMaster> +0
<ogra> who was that private Abstention ?
<MootBot> Abstention received from GrueMaster. 1 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lool> That's very early for east coast at 10am UTC
<NCommander> ogra, doesn't that defeat the point of a private abstention?
<ogra> heh, ok
<lool> and late west coast
<davidm> 12:00 and 21:00 is a not bad pair
<ajmitch> ogra: wasn't me! :)
 * NCommander thinks he lost his /home
<ogra> NCommander, but you can easily guess by looking who voted :P
<davidm> I have not voted
<GrueMaster> Hey, it's summer time.  Nothing on TV anyways.
<davidm> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from davidm. 1 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dyfet_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dyfet_. 1 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 1
<davidm> I just don't care
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 0 against. 8 abstained. Total: 1
<plars> it seems like 13:00 wouldn't be *too* horrible, there are a few that are slightly early/late, but no midnight or 3:00 AM type problems that I can see
<StevenK> Haha, 8 abstentions.
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> [vote] 20:00 UTC
<MootBot> Please vote on:  20:00 UTC.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<NCommander> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from NCommander. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<plars> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from plars. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ogra> +Ã
<ogra> bah
<plars> hah
<ogra> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra. 1 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 1
<StevenK> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from StevenK. 1 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<lool> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lool. 2 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dyfet_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dyfet_. 2 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 1
<GrueMaster> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from GrueMaster. 2 for, 1 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 1
<GrueMaster> Dk
<davidm> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from davidm. 2 for, 1 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 1
<GrueMaster> er, DC
<davidm> Yes 13:00 UTC is not too bad
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 6 abstained. Total: 1
<NCommander> [vote] 13:00UTC
<MootBot> Please vote on:  13:00UTC.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<davidm> or rotating 13:00 21:;00
<StevenK> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from StevenK. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<davidm> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from davidm. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<plars> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from plars. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<lool> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lool. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<GrueMaster> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from GrueMaster. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paulliu> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paulliu. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<dyfet_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dyfet_. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<NCommander> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from NCommander. 6 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 6
<ogra> would put us right before the TB meeting if we stayed here
<NCommander> ogra, we'd never have another two hour meeting again
<ogra> (every second week at least)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> not a bad idea :)
<StevenK> So we need to finish on time, or the TB will revoke us
<NCommander> That sucks :-P
<plars> right, a good reason to keep the meeting to a reasonable length
<lool> davidm: We'd have to move our weekly call but that's minor
<davidm> lool, true
<StevenK> lool: Why, the IRC meeting would be Tuesday
<lool> StevenK: I'm speaking of the one to one
<StevenK> Oh
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 6
<NCommander> [vote] 13:00/21:00 rotating weekly
<MootBot> Please vote on:  13:00/21:00 rotating weekly.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<NCommander> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from NCommander. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<StevenK> +9
<StevenK> Er
<plars> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from plars. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<StevenK> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<lool> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lool. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
<plars> err
<davidm> +1
<ogra> +0
<plars> wait... WEEKLY?
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra. 2 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from davidm. 3 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 3
<davidm> plars, rotating
<davidm> we did not set the interval
<plars> ok
<NCommander> We can vote for other intervals if need be ;-)
<dyfet_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dyfet_. 3 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 3
<StevenK> davidm: NCommander did set the interval for the vote
 * plars is +1 for rotating, -1 for weekly
<ogra> plars nah, two meetings every tue. indeed so we get to our 2h :P
<GrueMaster> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from GrueMaster. 3 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 3
<davidm> Oh my bad
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 6 abstained. Total: 3
<davidm> so he did
 * NCommander whistles
<NCommander> so um
<NCommander> Do we need another vote?
<StevenK> Hell no
<lool> I think 13 UTC had quite some success
<davidm> Yes
<plars> vote on whether we need another vote?
<davidm> ha
<NCommander> Isn't that where we had it WAY back in the day?
<lool> plars: One another vote or two rotating votes?
 * davidm thinks we are going vote crazy
<StevenK> We have just spent 30 minutes voting. Enough!
<NCommander> I rmemeber getting up at 8 or 9 am for voting
<plars> davidm: you should have seen it last week
 * ogra wants to vote if thats already enough !
<lool> StevenK: Ah thanks, I didn't want to rant about it myself :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: as an outsider, it's mildly entertaining
 * GrueMaster is tired of voting
<StevenK> lool: :-D
<NCommander> StevenK, I'm not, this is the one place where my vote means somethng
<StevenK> [vote] Pointless vote to keep NCommander happy
<MootBot> StevenK, Only the meeting chair can do that
<StevenK> Bite me, MootBot
 * StevenK smirks
<NCommander> / [vote] to annoy StevenK
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<NCommander> (finally)
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain
<ogra> vote on specs ?
<lool> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<lool> mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain: nothing new to report
<NCommander> lool, launchpad just hated me
<lool> waiting on adam
<lool> paulliu:    mobile-unr-karmic-connman?
<StevenK> ogra: Oh, meh!
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-connman  (paulliu)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-connman  (paulliu)
<NCommander> I feel uspred
<paulliu> I view the source code of connman.
<lool> paulliu: Blocked on anything?
<paulliu> And I found that the NetworkManager compatible methods are few. Only 3.
<lool> wow
<ogra> davidm, can you assign the cdimage thing to me so it shows up on the list ?
<NCommander> ow
<paulliu> Is the action item to implement it?
<lool> paulliu: We should check whether what we ship works well enough with it
<davidm> ogra, I will do so now
<lool> paulliu: I think we should discuss that offline with QA folks
<ogra> davidm, thanks
<plars> ogra: I think canonical-mobile has to be subscribed for it to be on the list
<paulliu> It works good for users.
<lool> paulliu: Gathering a list of apps which use NM's dbus API and checking whether they work with connman
<lool> and then feeding that to QA to ensure they are on the radar
<ogra> plars, it shows up if a team member is assigned i think
<paulliu> Connman itself works good. Small and fast, stable.
<lool> plars, ogra: any of sub-ed assigned etc. is enough
<NCommander> [topic] karmic-freescale-desktop  (ogra & NCommander(?))
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-freescale-desktop  (ogra & NCommander(?))
<ogra> in the works
<paulliu> Just not good to use by other apps. Like Epiphany, due to lack of methods, it starts with off-line mode.
<ogra> just hunting mono ftbfs down
<lool> paulliu: What matters is all apps in the UNR seed work with connman
<NCommander> ogra, did we decide if we're going to switch the assignee?
<ogra> NCommander, no, we'll do that on the fly in case amit cant send the board back
 * GrueMaster hates when two topics are going at the same time.
<davidm> I think you will have to rin connman in compatibility mode
<ogra> NCommander, i'm supposed to have the other board in time so we are able to flip if needed
<davidm> At least that is what tony espy has said
<paulliu> davidm: yes, it's in compatible mode.
<ogra> ha, i can assign myself to a spec :)
<NCommander> [topic] karmic-marvell-desktop  (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-marvell-desktop  (NCommander)
<davidm> Ah OK
<NCommander> No progress, needs hardware
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-qa-karmic-arm  (plars)
<lool> davidm: The compat features aren't enough, they don't cover what all apps need
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-qa-karmic-arm  (plars)
<ogra> NCommander, reload the speclist so you'll find one more
<lool> davidm: What matters is that UNR apps are working with connman though
<davidm>  true for now
<plars> started, have an overview testplan up
<NCommander> found
<plars> [link] http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/ARM
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-subarches-in-debian-cd (ogra)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-subarches-in-debian-cd (ogra)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> drafting, will be written by monday latest
<ogra> its very high prio
<ogra> since marvell and freescale desktop both depend on it
<lool> NCommander: That one isn't on the list?
<ogra> (at least the images for these)
<NCommander> lool, refresh
<ogra> lool, reload
<ogra> just added it
<lool> Ah
<NCommander> ogra, do you except any difficulty in implementation?
<ogra> i never except difficulies *g*
<lool> Marking as drafting then
<lool> ogra: no wiki page?
<ogra> but i dont expect any either
<NCommander> er, oop
<NCommander> *oops
<ogra> lool, no, i'm writing it
<NCommander> ogra, cool
<lool> Should the ARM desktops depend on this spec?
<ogra> lool, will just be a copy of what we do with ps3
<ogra> lool, if we dont have separate image specs for them, yes
<NCommander> Wait
<NCommander> Won't we need separate squashfs's for the images
<NCommander> wait, nm
<ogra> no
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> Just realized that was a dense question
<ogra> only bootloader and kernel
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-qa-karmic-unr  (plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-qa-karmic-unr  (plars)
<lool> What about modules from the kernel?
<ogra> hrm
<plars> will be starting shortly, doing some research into what might change for this cycle
<ogra> damned, do you always need to point out the obvious i missed
<StevenK> plars: Start drafting, or implemnting?
<lool> ogra: I think we need a dependency between the marvell and fsl images
<lool> and this new spec
<plars> StevenK: implementing, it's already drafted
<StevenK> ogra: Different kernel implies different squashfs
<lool> Because currently the FSL image is armel
<ogra> lool, i'll try to find an idea for that modules stuff in the spec, else we'll need two squashfses
<ogra> lool, it will become ubuntu-9.04-desktop-armel+iMX51.img
<lool> ogra: By default, different subarches mean different squashfses
<NCommander> We use two different squashfs's for powerpc and powerpc+ps3 last time I checked
<lool> Yes
<NCommander> ogra, iMX51 vs. imx51?
<NCommander> the caps are ugly :-/
<lool> ?
<StevenK> NCommander: Two different systems ...
<ogra> NCommander, doesnt matter
<StevenK> The cdimage system is ... fun
<lool> it's all lowercased, we don't need to discuss that
<ogra> can also be imx51 i dont care
<NCommander> StevenK, I know, I've run it :-P
 * StevenK just uses antimony, it's more fun
<NCommander> StevenK, the PS3 port requires kboot to get everything working, its a load of fun.
 * GrueMaster has completely lost track of the current topic (again).
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> and more complex
<StevenK> I knew there was a reason I ignored the PS3
<lool> ogra: I'm a bit sceptical of filing a specs for that, it's tightened with the FSL and the marvell stuff IMO
<NCommander> StevenK, and posioness
<ogra> lool, right, the debian-cd one should suffice
<plars> GrueMaster: current topic was mobile-karmic-qa-unr (and is done I think) but we're still dealing with spillover from the previous one
<StevenK> GrueMaster: lool and ogra are still talking about the debian-cd armel spec
<lool> It would have been nice to discuss this spec calmly if it impacts the two other specs
<ogra> lool, though i'd like to overcome the need for separate squashfses just for modules, but thats karmic+1
<lool> We're stressed with time trying to cover all specs, and we discover that one new one is superseding two others
<StevenK> lool, ogra: Can you two discuss this offline, we're at 58 minutes ?
<ogra> lool, want to review it once i've written it up
<ogra> StevenK, ++
<lool> ogra: Aboslutely, was about to offer that
<ogra> oki
<StevenK> NCommander: Next!
<NCommander> I take it no one wants this to run over?
<ogra> go go go
<StevenK> Not really
<davidm> iMX51 is correct
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-management (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-management (ogra)
<StevenK> davidm: But iMX51 looks ugly
<NCommander> +1 StevenK
<NCommander> imx51 looks nice
<davidm> StevenK, true but I did not name the SoC Freescale did
<ogra> discussed it a bit with lool today .... and beyond that not sure we need to keep it in case we get commitment from FSL for u-boot
<lool> The name of the kernel flavour is imx51 and subarches are lowercased and this is a bikeshed discussion
<NCommander> We are almost to the point of having a new redboot in archive
<StevenK> I want the bikeshed blue
<NCommander> (yay backups of /home)
<NCommander> I want the bikeshed dark green :-P
<ogra> NCommander, but also u-boot ... though in unknown support state
<NCommander> Well
<ogra> and known bad quality
<NCommander> We have an interesting problem with that as I will bring up at the end of the meeting
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader
<NCommander> It's semi-packaged
<ogra> how does that work without kexec support ?
<NCommander> ogra, works great on ia64
 * NCommander runs
<ogra> you noticed there is an arm in the name ? :)
<StevenK> Wow, so it's better than the kernel?
<NCommander> StevenK, yeah
<ogra> move or say something
<NCommander> But I've run into ... unforeseen difficulties with kexecboot, I need to discuss with upstream, and I hope to grab lool next week to go over it. I don't expect too much progress in the coming week though w/ work to add FSL
<NCommander> ogra, :-P
<lool> Don't expect to grab me before a week though
<NCommander> [topic]mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<MootBot> New Topic: mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<NCommander> lool, its low priority so whenever you get a chance
<NCommander> ^- plars
<plars> I have a list of apps to target, did some proof of concept on how I want to make the tests
<plars> about to start going through the apps and writing the individual tests
<NCommander> [topic]   	 mobile-unr-karmic-wubi (StevenK)
<MootBot> New Topic:    	 mobile-unr-karmic-wubi (StevenK)
 * ogra wants mobile-unr-karmic-wubi-arm
 * NCommander notes you made that quip last week
<ogra> yeah, its my running gag to bridge the time until StevenK says something :P
<lool> StevenK: poke
<StevenK> Waiting on image testing
<StevenK> Sorry, was distracted by my browser
<StevenK> And cdimage.u.c is slow :-(
<ogra> NCommander, ?
<NCommander> [topic] karmic-lsb-compliance-testing (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-lsb-compliance-testing (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> WIP
<GrueMaster> Waiting on Alpha 3 for next phase of tests.
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-application-res (paulliu)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-application-res (paulliu)
<StevenK> Haha, "blocked on Alpha 3"
<paulliu> Reviewing by lool currently.
<lool> reviewed and asked davidm for approval
<paulliu> And some patches are refining.
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui (ogra)
<lool> Oh I can change its state now
<ogra> WIP
<NCommander> WIP?
<ogra> work ... in ... progress
<NCommander> [topic]   	 mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:    	 mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds (lool)
<ogra> rootstock project was created on LP ...
<lool> davidm: I've properly set mobile-unr-karmic-application-res to pending approval by you; I thought I couldn't but I was probably logged out
<lool> No progress on mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds, other business this week
<StevenK> lool: Yeah, I was logged out when I tried to retry a build, I think LP forced everyone off
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)
<ogra> drafting ... other business etc
<NCommander> [topic]   	 mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:    	 mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (dyfet)
<davidm> lool, I think something has been going on with LP today
<ogra> last night already
<davidm> mobile-unr-karmic-application-res approved
<dyfet_> I am in the process of interesting the lubuntu community in taking over this spec
<ogra> they flushed the user DB afaik
<ogra> or session DB
<StevenK> The latter
<NCommander> [topic]   	 mobile-unr-karmic-applications (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:    	 mobile-unr-karmic-applications (GrueMaster)
<StevenK> The former would be much much worse
<GrueMaster> Waiting on info from DX, OEM
<ogra> yeah, was the latter
<StevenK> Awwww.
 * StevenK was hoping -seeds gets mentioned
<NCommander> StevenK, ;-)
<lool> GrueMaster: Who are you in contact with?
<NCommander> [topic] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<lool> GrueMaster: Do we need to escalate this?
<GrueMaster> Anmar, pete, neil.
<GrueMaster> I've sent them all emails, and subscribed them to the spec.
<lool> GrueMaster: I think you should ask davidm to raise to them that you're blocked on their input
<lool> davidm: ^
<GrueMaster> Already did.
<davidm> GrueMaster, did you phone them>
<davidm> GrueMaster, did you phone them? that is
<davidm> If not please phone them on Monday
<GrueMaster> Not yet.  Plan is to poke them first online.  I'll do that Monday after the holiday.
<plars> Anyone have any additional issues with the BugWorkflow as is currently documented?  Any suggestions or changes?
<plars> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
<NCommander> I brought this up in passing
<NCommander> but redboot is currently being troublesome, but we should have a new version for the TO2 in archive this weekend.
<lool> plars: Should it be split in two pages for each type of bugs?
<lool> I'm happy with it otherwise
 * ogra wouldnt split it
<plars> lool: it doesn't seem to be burdensome as it is right now, but if it grows out of control, I had considered that
<ogra> it reflects the two areas we mostly work in atm
<NCommander> I think if we'r egoing to go to uboot for SL, we'll have to discuss this and maybe bring up a spec to track that
 * StevenK adds -translations to the list so it can get covered next week
<lool> plars: I had in mind it would keep UNR stuff in the UNR namespace and the ARM stuff in its own; they don't really relate except we care for the two of them in the mobile team
<ogra> NCommander, that totally depends on commitment we get
<lool> Anyway, this is minor I don't care strongly
<ogra> which we dont have yet
<NCommander> Ok
<lool> NCommander: do not push redboot built with different toolchain
<lool> yet
<NCommander> lool, ?
<NCommander> lool, ok
<lool> First we need to talk to FSL and clarify whether uboot will be good enough
 * NCommander can't either
<lool> It's not yet good enough for sure
<ogra> lool, well, currently its in the MobileTeam namespace :)
<lool> No USB, no SD/MMC, no SATA, no Ethernet,,
<lool> Ok.  anything else to discuss?
<plars> lool: I see your point, it probably is best to associate it with UNR/ARM rather than with the team
<lool> plars: This can be moved later and is trivial though; it's fine like that for now don't worry about it
<plars> ok
<ogra> ++
<lool> Ok bye all
 * ogra guesses we'Re done
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:19.
<ogra> lool, safe flight
 * NCommander goes to bed
<lool> thx
<StevenK> \o/
<NCommander> lool, good luck
 * GrueMaster runs to see who is burring the house down.
<Claudinux> *penso che
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-03
<jdobrien> Hello Ubuntu One'eers!
 * jdobrien hides
 * cjwatson waves
<heno> hi
<cjwatson> I guess this'll be a relatively short release meeting, since the US is celebrating some kind of rebellious colony thing :)
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-03
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-03
<dholbach> cjwatson: that's really unfair... I mean the UK have much more experience with rebellious colonies! :-P
 * dholbach shuts up and leaves :-)
 * charlie-tca sends a happy 4th of July to you too
<cjwatson> dholbach: yeah, *we* should celebrate US independence day ;-)
<pitti> hello
<cjwatson> hi, just getting started, I guess folks will drift in
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meeting
<pitti> at least those who are still working today :)
<cjwatson> there are two kubuntu-netbook items in here
<cjwatson> there's been some progress on kubuntu-netbook (debian-cd merged), but at the moment we're waiting on an RT ticket in order to be able to progress further
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=34852
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=34852
<cjwatson> for those with access
<cjwatson> rgreening: did you do anything about test case documentation?
<rgreening> cjwatson: no. been busy porting usb-creator for kde
<cjwatson> ok, I'll just carry those items over then
<cjwatson> hopefully we'll have working images by next week
<rgreening> this was something ScottK volunteered me for right?
<cjwatson> or images anyway :)
<cjwatson> rgreening: I forget
<cjwatson> I think it may have been, yeah
<rgreening> :) Im sure it was
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<heno> Hi
<cjwatson> my agenda was a bit incomplete for you guys, feel free to elaborate :)
<heno> Not much to report, most people are off
<heno> 8.04.3 SRU testing is on-going. We have been testing ISOs but there have been rebuilds of course. We expect to step that up on Monday
<heno> The last automated installs in the HW lab of 8.04.3 were from 20090624.1
<cr3> for both alternate and server (20090624)
<cjwatson> fader reported that the bnx2 issue from earlier was resolved now - have we had a full automated install run for karmic since that? I understood it was taking out quite a few machines
<heno> We have an intern starting who will help with manual testing of laptops every Friday.  That's been a weak spot earlier.
<cr3> pending hr, the intern should start as early as next week
<heno> last karmic results are from 20090702.1
<cr3> we're still having problems with bandwidth just to rsync images quickly enough to test. this should be resolved as of July 10th
<cjwatson> 100mb internal links or something?
<heno> I understand there was some confusion around image version numbers
<cjwatson> I think what happened was that the CD image was being synced but the netboot initrd wasn't
<heno> that we were caching an old image for a week
<cr3> cjwatson: I've had to compose with a T1 for a long time, it's just not enough
<heno> cr3: was the synching issue resolved?
<cr3> heno: worked around by not testing desktkop (live cd) images anymore
<heno> ok
<cr3> heno: but the lab is just finally catching up from the backlog today at 4h00 AM
<heno> also, the work on metrics-based testing continues
<cr3> cjwatson: rest assured that everything was being synced properly in the automated environment, both images and initrd. the problem is that some patched manual scripts weren't doing the right thing
<cjwatson> cr3: well, synced, used, something like that :-)
<cr3> cjwatson: so the problem was only encountered when performing ad-hoc manual tests, not otherwise, which should've only affected a few corner cases
<cr3> for metrics-based testing, we're working on making attachments available to users as a very simple zip file
<cjwatson> is karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption still on track for alpha 3? I noted that it seemed to involve some Launchpad changes, and was wondering if those were in
<cr3> the current users targetted for this feature are Keybuk for bootchart information and kirkland for acpi information.
<heno> cjwatson: I believe the code is ready, but I need to nudge them
<heno> (the LP team)
<cjwatson> right, I imagine they're pretty busy with the open-sourcing
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<pitti> etailled info about RC bug status, planned Karmic changes, and done/planned changes for alpha-3 are on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> d...
<pitti> Again, this week we did not really focus on bugs, but on urgent feature development which other teams depend o
<pitti> n.
<pitti> In particular:
<pitti> - we got the new gdm into karmic; sorting out some fallout now, but necessary for DX and artwork to provide th
<pitti> emes and customizations, and for porting fusa and guest session
<pitti> - packaged gnome-shell in PPA
<pitti> - finished a working version of automagic-python-builds (dependency of "Application Layer Cake")
<pitti> - got UbuntuOne file sync packages into karmic
<pitti> - sorted out gstreamer package dependencies for empathy
<pitti> - more porting work for Halsectomy
<pitti> I tested the current desktop CD, and fixed a couple of warts, but by and large it's working; some major bugs remain, of course.
<cjwatson> gdm: I just heard something today about no more shutdown available without logging out first ...?
<pitti> that was fixed in a followup gnome-panel upload
<cjwatson> ah, good
<pitti> system menu has these things back for now
<pitti> it's not the final solution, of course
<cjwatson> tell amitk before he panics too much :)
<pitti> but porting our fusa to new gdm will take a bit
<pitti> ted's on that
<pitti> cjwatson: done :)
<pitti> I updated casper for autologin, too
<pitti> it still breaks keyboard layouts, will tackle that soon
<cjwatson> oh, the installer will need updates if autologin has changed
<pitti> and it has some nasty "greeter gnome-session saving yadayada" dialog, but it's just cosmetical
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to update installer for gdm autologin changes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to update installer for gdm autologin changes
<pitti> cjwatson: shall I file a bug against ubiquity with the necessary changes?
<cjwatson> it's ok, I'll pick it up from casper
<cjwatson> (it's oem-config too)
<pitti> I tested the current desktop CD, and fixed a couple of warts, but by and large it's working; some major bugs remain, of course.
<pitti> oops, sorry
<pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk/revision/647 I mean
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk/revision/647 I mean
<cjwatson> thanks
<pitti> (papercut: two cut/paste areas are confusing)
<pitti> so, for alpha 3 we still plan to push empathy
<pitti> the other a3 planned changes are in
<cjwatson> I put quite a lot of bugs on your team's list from regressions and the targeted list and such
<pitti> we'll get into space issues, but we have some plans for that
<pitti> that's fine, I'd rather err on the side of caution
<cjwatson> but I don't think many of them were OHMYGODURGENT
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> fortunately we have been spared of total breakers so far
<pitti> erm, of course I mean, our careful planning and engineering avoided them :-P
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<cjwatson> is anyone here for the mobile team?
<cjwatson> lool is at GUADEC
<cjwatson> and I assume that davidm is on holiday
<cjwatson> well, the only real thing I had was to nag lool about the toolchain changes, so I guess that can wait
<cjwatson> Pete said by e-mail that there would be no kernel team representation this week
<cjwatson> bug 392709 was the only particular argh item I had there, and I believe that's getting fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392709 in linux "[karmic] linux-image 2.6.31-1.13 crashes on boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392709
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
 * cjwatson switches hats
<ogra> if there is anything urgent for mobile, i am here
<cjwatson> ogra: oh, do you have anything particular you want to report? there's nothing urgent as far as I can see except checking up on the toolchain changes for v6
<ogra> well, the rest of arm is waiting for kernel ...
<ogra> UNR is ongoing properly afaik
<ogra> nothing special
<cjwatson> is UNR actually working yet?
 * ogra just notes that cjwatsons remark from the beginning isnt true, they cheat and pretend its the 4th today
<ogra> as far as i heard it is
<cjwatson> it was waiting for a soyuz cherry-pick, I hadn't checked whether that had happened
<ogra> i dont test it myself, being busy preparing arm for A3
<ogra> currently i go over the ftbfs list
<ogra> but gruemaster sounded like UNR would be roughly in shape atm
<ogra> he is testing it daily
<cjwatson> bug 391964
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391964 in soyuz "cron.germinate change for unr seed branch" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391964
<cjwatson> I think that might actually have been CPed though, I seem to remember StevenK saying that
<cjwatson> ok
<ogra> well, thats it from my side
<cjwatson> thanks
<cjwatson> as far as the foundations team goes, our list of bugs is a little shorter than usual since I took the opportunity while preparing the agenda to fix some of the things on it ;-)
<cjwatson> I need to scare up somebody willing to tackle bug 277069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277069 in libxcb "Slow performance with remote X applications (java, firefox/xul, etc.)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277069
<cjwatson> and we have the usual list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cjwatson> quite a lot of features planned to land for alpha 3 still, none of which I have reason to be concerned about right now
<cjwatson> one other thing to mention is that it looks as if we may be making a slightly late move to eglibc
<pitti> oh, so we do
<pitti> we all know the discussions, but how much of a "delta" is that actually nowadays?
<pitti> more like "20 patches" or "rewriting half of it"?
<cjwatson> from the investigations I've made I don't consider it any riskier than any other merge of glibc from Debian
<cjwatson> the biggest delta is basically #ifdefs, all of which we'll be leaving in their current configuration to the best of my knowledge
<cjwatson> the reason to change is not that it gets us anything particular but that it saves us from having to maintain the glibc packaging ourselves; not following Debian would constitute going it alone
<pitti> right, full ack, I was just curious how big of an impact that actually is
<cjwatson> there are still a few conversations to be had and a shedload of testing, of course
<pitti> in debian it seems to have gone virtually unnoticed by many unstable users
<cjwatson> right, when I looked that's basically the conclusion I came to as well
<cjwatson> lots of heat but very little actual difficulty
<pitti> right
<pitti> just a single 'e' in debian/changelog :-P
<cjwatson> I just don't want to be faced with having to do that as well as other routine merges at the start of an LTS cycle ...
<cjwatson> hell, if that bothers people we can call it glibc with a larger than usual patch :P
<cjwatson> 2.10 (e or otherwise) is more of a change, particularly with this single-request stuff in resolv.conf
<cjwatson> (ipv4/ipv6 mungery)
<cjwatson> oh, heh, that's already been backported to Debian (e)glibc ;-)
<cjwatson> anyway, more news on that as it happens
<pitti> cjwatson: btw, is a dpkg merge still on the plan?
<cjwatson> oh, yes, that's rising up my guiltmeter
<cjwatson> aiming that for first thing next week
<pitti> I was just wondering if I should sponsor that dpkg build-dep fix (the correct one from Debian), or whether that'd be moot
<cjwatson> sorry that's late
<cjwatson> moot, I think
<pitti> great
<cjwatson> assign it to me if you want :-)
<cjwatson> Rick said there'd be no server team representation here today due to the holiday
<cjwatson> ScottK said he'd be on holiday and that there was no significant news on the universe front so he didn't intend to find a replacement to attend; he also mentioned that KDE 4.3rc1 is now in karmic (and jaunty ppa)
<cjwatson> that said if there are any MOTUs around with stuff to discuss at the release-team level, feel free :-)
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
<cjwatson> I put most things that looked interesting from that list on individual team agendas
<cjwatson> desktop and kernel for the most part, though I hoovered up a few other bits and pieces
<cjwatson> anything else people think is being missed?
<pitti> fine for me
<cjwatson> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha2#Known%20issues only had one unfixed bug, which I put on the server team's agenda and have now release-targeted too (the likewise-open5 thing)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha2#Known%20issues only had one unfixed bug, which I put on the server team's agenda and have now release-targeted too (the likewise-open5 thing)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<pitti> I expect a3 to get more, with all the new crack we put in :)
<cjwatson> mostly we're good here, but the DVD is HUMUNGOUSLY oversized
<cjwatson> as in .5GB
<pitti> well, desktop CDs are only within limit because they have 0 langpacks
<cjwatson> mm, there's 8MB or so free on i386; but yes
<pitti> the plan from my side is (1) split gnome help to langpacks (Julien says it should work in ~ 2 weeks)
<cjwatson> oh, that's actually going to happen this LP cycle?
<cjwatson> great
<pitti> and (2) drop gimp help if we need more space
 * artir suggest a LivePen by default \0/
<cjwatson> that sounds like a good plan of record
<pitti> we need more space for all the U1 stuff, empathy, couchdb, etc.
<pitti> and of course some langpacks
<cjwatson> artir: let's just say this has been discussed ad infinitum :)
<pitti> so I guess gimp help is first against the wall (and 20 MB win)
<artir> cjwatson: it'll happen! it's just matter of time :P
<pitti> it falls back to online help with no effort
<cjwatson> keeping within size is good for our users
<pitti> and enforces a good and non-crufty design
<cjwatson> it removes the temptation for bloat
<artir> and what about replacing gimp with nathive...
<cjwatson> which is ever-present
<pitti> artir: -> ubuntu-devel-discuss@
<pitti> any idea about the Kubuntu CDs?
<cjwatson> in terms of size?
<pitti> they seem to have plenty of size
<pitti> (no langpacks right now)
<cjwatson> they have oodles free, yes
<pitti> I meant, are there plans for adding large new stuff?
<cjwatson> oh, that I don't know
<cjwatson> you would know better than I :)
<pitti> ok, nevermind
<cjwatson> want an action to check that up with Riddell?
<pitti> I hoped rgreening or other Kubuntu folks would know
<pitti> I'll ask him
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] pitti to check with Riddell whether any Kubuntu ISO size events are in the offingg
<MootBot> New Topic:  pitti to check with Riddell whether any Kubuntu ISO size events are in the offingg
<cjwatson> whoops
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<cjwatson> [ACTION] pitti to check with Riddell whether any Kubuntu ISO size events are in the offing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to check with Riddell whether any Kubuntu ISO size events are in the offing
<cjwatson> the DVD seems to be oversized largely due to an enormous squashfs
<pitti> so we need to unseed stuff?
<cjwatson> so we may have to rethink the language-support policy there; this will be easier once language-support is reorged
<pitti> so far we used to pretty much rename "supported" to "dvd"
<cjwatson> well, no, supported has more than that, we split the dvd seed down a while back
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to investigate DVD size explosion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to investigate DVD size explosion
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> *tumbleweed*
<cjwatson> ok, I guess we're done with the quietest release meeting ever, then :)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:54.
<pitti> thanks everyone
 * Pricey waves
 * jussi01 waves
<Pricey> copycat
<jussi01> hehe
 * nalioth copycats
<boredandblogging> hola
<jussi01> Doing well so far...
<elky> hai
<jussi01> Just waiting on Pici now
<Tm_T> jussi01: pikku pici
<jussi01> *g*
<nalioth> ok, folks. welcome to the meeting.
<Tm_T> Conan, this, Conan, urrrgh, decisions
<Pici> I'm here, but my connection is a bit flaky
 * Tm_T shuts up
<nalioth> elky, care to begin?
<Pici> So I f I take a few monites to respond, thats why.
<Pricey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<Pici> minutes even.
<boredandblogging> do we want to use mootbot?
<boredandblogging> not that I know how it works
<Pricey> elky: Are you here? :)
<elky> i am, yes
<elky> well, as here as i can be at 7am on a saturday
<Seeker`> Mootbot is great *cough*
<Pricey> Top of the agenda is "Change description of the offtopic channels on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat to help dispel misconceptions that they are no-rules channels "
<nalioth> elky: you have the first item on the agenda.  would you like to lead the discussion?
<elky> um. some people are trying to use the current description of the offtopic channels in specific as an excuse to be foul and ignore the rules. if they could be changed to null this hurdle to common decency, it'd be great.
<elky> nalioth's point covers this too, fwiw, so maybe we s hould merge the two
<Pricey> I don't like that description, "where everything is on-topic"... it isn't...
<Pricey> Has that always been there?
<Flannel> Pricey: yes
<elky> Pricey, yes, but misinterpreting/abusing it has become far more popular than it used to be
<nalioth> ok, the 2nd item is to get rid of some obsolete channels.  #kubuntu-kde4 has been defunct for a couple of releases now
<jussi01> nalioth: yeah, that is forwarded, no?
<jussi01> that can definately be droppedd
<nalioth> it doesn't need to be on the page
<nalioth> forwarded or not
<jussi01> Ahh, yes, I mustve forgotten to nix it, go ahead, no issues from me
<nalioth> #ubuntu-powerpc is not an "official" channel, either (and i don't think it needs to be on the page)
<Pricey> I don't think we need to go through every single channel on that list in this meeting?
<elky> nalioth, is it used by people?
<jussi01> I think its useful to be ther
<Pricey> But yes, it would be useful for us to clean it up.
<nalioth> as far as the -offtopic descriptions, they do NOT need to say "where anything is on topic"
<nalioth> no, i just wanted to touch on those two in particular
<Pricey> Yep, I really think that should change.
<nalioth> not saying to get rid of the channels, just to remove their presence from the page
<nalioth> so vote to remove #kubuntu-kde4 and #ubuntu-powerpc from the listing?
<Pici> Is -powerpc defuct as well?
<elky> can we please vote on those individually?
<nalioth> sure.  vote to remove #kubuntu-kde4 from the page ?
<elky> +1
<Pici> +1
<jussi01> +1
<Pricey> +1
<nalioth> there are 10 people in #ubuntu-powerpc.  vote to remove it's listing from the page?
<jussi01> -1
<Pricey> Is it still a community supported port?
<jussi01> yes afaik
<nalioth> yes, it is.
<elky> -1
<Pricey> -1 I say keep it then.
<Pici> -1, its not hurting anything to keep it available.
<jussi01> boredandblogging: you still here?
<nalioth> we're not closing channels here - just removing them from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
<boredandblogging> sorry, desktop on karmic keeps restarting on me
<jussi01> nalioth: I know, but I still think it should be there
<jussi01> anyway, how about the wording?
<nalioth> ok, keep #ubuntu-powerpc and remove #kubuntu-kde4.  on to the -offtopic wording
<Pricey> jussi01: on the -offtopic's?
<jussi01> Pricey: yeps
<Pricey> "for non-support chatter"?
<jussi01> sounds good to me
<Tm_T> Pricey: sounds good
<nalioth> as far as i'm concerned, NO #ubuntu-* is a 'general chat zone'
<boredandblogging> thats good
<nalioth> "for Ubuntu-related non-support chatter"
<nalioth> otw, we're back to where we are now
<Pricey> otw?
<jussi01> nalioth: but you can talk non ubuntu related in there
<nalioth> Pricey: otherwise
<elky> Pricey, may i suggest a link to the guidelines somehow? it's the channel that requires the most frequent quoting of it
<Pricey> elky: a link in that list?
<jussi01> Maybe something referencing the CoC?
<boredandblogging> maybe put the link right above the table?
<elky> Pricey, yes, so they lose the logic of 'i didn't scroll down so i didn't read it and hence i should be exempt'
<nalioth> it's already there. in the first paragraph
<Pici> Would having a separate -offtopic wiki page be useful?
<elky> nalioth, a reminder wont hurt. i want it to be painfully obvious
<Pici> Sort of like #defocus has one?
<nalioth> no, because we'd end up writing a book, Pici
<Pricey> The guideliens are in #ubuntu-offtopic's /topic
<Pricey> I think that's sufficient.
<Pricey> Anywhere else is just handy.
<elky> Pricey, nobody reads topics though
<Pricey> Not our fault
<Pricey> and really... all the guidelines are, are common decency, politeness and smiling
<elky> Pricey, no, but it is our problem.
<Pricey> there's nothing restrictive in there
<Pricey> elky: the /topic is the first thing you get when you join a channel... if you don't read that... what else are you going to read?!
<nalioth> yep.  nobody can say they didn't see it.
<Pricey> Should we be getting ubottu to randomly insert !guidelines during the day?
<nixternal> question: why are you guys voting to remove #kubuntu-kde4 w/o first checking with the Kubuntu crowd on if it is still being used or what not?
<jussi01> nixternal: I am the channel contact
<Pricey> nixternal: 21:22:48 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- Mode lock  : +imntf #kubuntu
<Pricey> nixternal: It is well and truly closed.
<nalioth> nixternal: #kubuntu-kde4 was being used 3 releases ago when kde4 was optional
<elky> nixternal, we're not deleing the channel, just it's presence in a directory on a wiki page
<nalioth> nixternal: kde4 is now mainstream and support is in #kubuntu
<nixternal> gotcha, but from now on, please communicate with the respective project for voting on removing anything related to it
<Pricey> its already closed?
<elky> ...from our team wiki pages?
<Tm_T> nixternal: I thought jussi01 covers that?
<nalioth> Pricey: evidently since kde4 went mainstream
<jussi01> nixternal: yes, of course, but as I said, Im the contact, and quite clear on the situation
<Pricey> nixternal: There is no point in it being on our wiki page when the channel is closed? Do we really need to consult with anyone still?
<nalioth> but yes, nixternal we're discussing https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
<nixternal> that's fine, thought you were voting on removing the channel, didn't realize it was from a "team wiki page"
<nalioth> nixternal: scrollback is wonderful  :)
<nixternal> ya, I was looking at that the other day, it gave me a headache so I quit looking :)
<elky> it gives us headaches too
<nalioth> back to the wording of the -offtopic channel listings?
<nixternal> nalioth: have better things to do than scroll back, just skimmed...i hate tasting the cool aid :p
<Tm_T> -offtopic indeed needs explanation more than just "non-support"
<jussi01> Ok, can we move on?
<elky> Tm_T, do you have a suggestion?
<nalioth> perhaps we can separate out the -offtopic channels and have an explantory lead-in paragraph ?
<jussi01> nalioth: that is a very good idea, IMHO
<Tm_T> elky: for quick thinking, "non-support chat around ubuntu and community" perhaps?
<nalioth> one that covers them all
<jussi01> I propose both nalioth's and Tm_T's suggestions!
<elky> +1
<nalioth> "non support chat involving Ubuntu and the community"
<boredandblogging> nalioth: what would the lead in say besides following the CoC and guidelines?
<Pricey> boredandblogging: 'besides...'?
<nalioth> that there are no "free for all chat rooms" in the #ubuntu #kubuntu #xubuntu etc namespaces
<boredandblogging> is the lead in to reiterate to follow the CoC and guidelines?
<nalioth> if you're not getting direct help in #ubuntu, you're asking "which music player is best on a Pentium II?" in #ubuntu-offtopic
<nalioth> boredandblogging: that would be part of it
<boredandblogging> ok, cool
<elky> boredandblogging, it'd be nice to explain what 'non-support' means
<jussi01> and add a Use your common sense part... maybe?
<Tm_T> jussi01: problem, trolls can claim "this is my common sense" ? ):
<Pici> I've found that even asking that #ubuntu-offtopic is not a support channel isn't even enough.  I've been constantly asking people to take their support questions (and answers) to #ubuntu lately.
<elky> Tm_T, thanks, i was wondering how to phrase that :P
<nalioth> Pici: that is a by-product of the current bug on LP, and I personally don't see any issues with providing help there
<Tm_T> nalioth: well, as long as it's not the main support source for people
<nalioth> of course not
<Tm_T> in #k sometimes support questions leads to chit chat about it, which then (hopefully) continue in -ot
<Pici> Aye, the same in #u+1
<Tm_T> but chit chat can lead to support, so cannot be strict
<jussi01> SO how are we going to do this, we need a lead in paragraph for the page, maybe we decide to take it to the ML and create something, bring it back next meeting?
<elky> the participants tend to be able to differentiate between a continued discusson and someone coming in and announcing '#u ignored me so now i'm goign to ask here'
<elky> (when they only waited in #u for like 30 seconds)
<Tm_T> elky: aye, that could be the line of policy
<nalioth> basically the lead-in paragraph needs to state two things:  "offtopic channels aren't a "free-for-all"" and "please follow the !CoC and !guidelines"
<boredandblogging> then the question will be what isn't allowed
<Tm_T> "offtopic is for chat involving ubuntu and community, support in #u, please follow ..."
<elky> can we compose the exact text later?
<nalioth> sure.
<nalioth> right now, can we change the existing description to "community related non-support discussion" ?
<jussi01> +1
<elky> +1
<Pici> +1 sounds good
<Pricey> +1
<boredandblogging> +1
<jussi01> excellent
<jussi01> nalioth: are you making these changes?
<nalioth> ok, is jono around?
<nalioth> jussi01: i will make the changes, yes
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> Jono isnt around
<Tm_T> nalioth: is not, gcds travel I guess
<nalioth> anyone want to discuss item 3? Resolving the quantity of traffic in #ubuntu
<Pricey> Is it really that bad?
<nalioth> i don't think it is, no.
<jussi01> I think the bug has gone the way it should, and people are looking into reviving /using -meta
<Tm_T> not for everyone
<nalioth> last call for item #3 discussion . . .
<Pricey> Has anyone involved in that bug come here?
<elky> Tm_T, the same people who find it too fast would probably find being turned into a number just as bad.
<Tm_T> but yeah, I was about to say that maybe we old folks could push meta more to people who might benefit from it
<Pricey> I think I put a comment on inviting people to...
<Tm_T> elky: agree
<Pricey> ugh there are some lovely things on there...
<Pici> I don't think there are any other good solutions that don't involve trying to turn IRC into something its not.
<Pricey> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392799/comments/11
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jussi01> Pricey: read through a bit
<Pricey> kicking because you are idle? (because that will make it a quieter channel)
<Tm_T> splitting is nogo, but meta can be useful, really
<Pricey> jussi01: Yep, I got to the meta bit... but really?!
<jussi01> Pricey: he does apologise later on
<Pricey> #ubuntu-hu does that and I didn't like it. Asked the channel contact about it and I think they discussed it at a meeting. Might go see what they came to.
<Pici> I thought #winehq did it for a while too
<elky> it strikes me that the bot opping up and removing people would only add to the perception of traffic
<Pici> I think it would just create a mess in -ops. People constantly coming in 'Why was I kicked??'
<nalioth> lots of channels do it, it only creates more chaos
<Pici> Or 'why was soandso kicked?'
<nalioth> i vote we wait for jono and discuss this at the next meeting
<jussi01> yeah, and not to mention those ops trying to idle there...
<elky> nalioth, yes, it'd be good to watch and see where the 'bug' ends up
<Pricey> I would love to see people putting their cases to us for discussion.
<Pici> I'd like to see more suggestions on fixing the issue
<nalioth> imho, "auto kick on idle" is NOT any kind of option
<Pici> I agree.
<jussi01> yes, thats the main issue for me also, I want people involved to be at the meeting telling us why.
<jussi01> nalioth: +1 on that
<nalioth> Pici: the mailing list awaits.  again, we can use the mailing list to get the word out to everyone interested of the next meeting
<Pricey> (if it is an issue)
<elky> ok, so let's leave this for now and move to item 4
<jussi01> ok,  thats mine
<nalioth> jussi01: please enlighten us of item 4
<Pici> I'm fine with that
<jussi01> We have talked about previously the need to clarify the correct procedure to get +v in #ubuntu-ops - AFAIK it was that you were part of the IRC team, although that has not been followed strictly. So how does it work and if not the IRC team, what is its function?
<elky> jussi01, i was initially under the impression it was supposed to be for the people that someone would go there to talk to.
<jussi01> Well the thing is we need to define the correct procedure, and stick to it.
<nalioth> i would think the +v'd folks in -ops would be from the channels -ops services, and the +v'd folks in -irc would be the ops from the channels -irc services
<jussi01> nalioth: that is what I would think also
<jussi01> can we write it down somewhere?
<Pricey> You lose me.
<Pricey> Oh wait no, back with you.
<jussi01> Pricey: WB :D
<Pricey> i don't think that's clear enough
<Pricey> does #kubuntu come under -ops?
<jussi01> yes
<elky> yes
<Pici> yes
<Seeker`> yes
<Pricey> #xubunt?
<elky> they could if they wished to cooperate
<jussi01> it should, but thats a whole other matter altogether
<Pici> jussi01: +1
<Pricey> As far as I'm concerned, it does as much as #kubuntu.
<elky> Pricey, except #kubuntu* cooperates with the ops team.
<nalioth> #xubuntu is served by -ops, whether they want the service or not
<Pricey> Things need to be made clearer.
<jussi01> Pricey: EXACTLY, which is why I want this written down somewhere
<Pici> The loco teams get -irc, the team main and team channels get -ops
<Pricey> jussi01: just saying that "+v'd folks in -ops would be from the channels -ops services" isn't anywhere near it
<elky> Pici, s/loco/team channels/
<jussi01> Pricey: we would also need to define which channels they are
<nalioth> jussi01: Pici got it
<Pici> I just mangled my words a bit.
<Pricey> I don't understand it?
<nalioth> primary and team channels are served by -ops.  loco teams get -irc
<elky> can we have a more solidified proposal for next meeting?
<Pricey> nalioth: I don't agree with that.
<jussi01> and what about channels that dont fit either of those?
<Seeker`> jussi01: such as?
<jussi01> Seeker`: #ubuntu-powerpc,  #ubuntu-podcast etc
<Pricey> I see the split as being... we have a group of operators who manage a very small number of channels, <10. That is what -ops is for. (So talking ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, offtopics, +1, meeting, etc.)
<Pricey> Everything else, goes into -irc.
<Seeker`> I say -powerpc, -podcast are closer to loco channels than main channels
<Pricey> -ops is where we run that small number of main channels, probably quite concentrated on bans etc.
<Pricey> -irc is for general ubuntu irc things
<jussi01> Pricey: how does that follow with loco's that have their own -ops channels?
<Pricey> jussi01: i don't think it conflicts
<jussi01> and where does #ubuntuforums fit in?
<nalioth> you guys are forgetting that some #ubuntu-* channels are not "official" but are just there
<Pricey> i don't think the initial idea for -irc was a broader scoped -ops, it was for operators to mingle
<Pricey> nalioth: and as long as they abide by the guidelines, they can manage themselves?
<nalioth> the vast majority of "official team channels" do manage themselves
<nalioth> but that doesn't mean that -ops doesn't serve them
<Pricey> ah right
<jussi01> nalioth: thats a good point
<Pricey> -ops in general doesn't serve them through 'access' etc. though does it?
<Pricey> its either help solving a problem, or a GC?
<nalioth> we have had "troll alerts" in -ops before
<jussi01> boredandblogging: Ive not seen any input from you yet...?
<Pricey> I think it is best we differentiate between the tasks performed by someone with flag +o in a channel like #ubuntu, and the way we serve other channels.
<Pricey> I think it gets confusing too often.
<elky> i'm confused as to what i'm inputting on. i'd much rather this be solidified into a proposal on the wiki or something first
<nalioth> yes, i think it needs to be written up as well and not hashed about here
<Pricey> Does anyone really have a proposal?
<Pricey> I think that one of the things we could try and target with sorting out -ops and +v, is the way people see us as wanting to try to take over their channels.
<nalioth> jussi01: would you care to write something up?
<jussi01> Pricey: yes, I agree.
<Pici> I'm not sure I understood that Pricey
<nalioth> Pici: some channels/teams in the #ubuntu namespace do not want anything to do with the council because they are under the impression we'd "take over and run their channel"
<elky> i'll rephrase, can we get something put into writing by next meeting so it's possible to follow what is being proposed?
<Pricey> Pici: if we clarify #ubuntu-ops, what hte people in there do... we won't get scaremongering at team meetings telling councils we're going to take over their channels.
<nalioth> jussi01: can you start a gobby doc or something on this?
<Pici> Okay
<jussi01> nalioth: If someone else can host it for now, can you pop something up on your gobby elky?
<Pricey> I don't think we've had any real proposals?
<nalioth> ok, jussi01 is going to write a proposal, and put it somewhere for perusal before the next meeting - where we'll discuss it
<jussi01> Well the idea wasnt that we had a real proposal, it was that we needed to discuss the subject I put up...
<elky> jussi01, i'm not opening my gobby up to the entire ops team though. what's wrong with a wiki page?
<Pricey> We could at least throw some quick proposals around here now, while we're here, meeting?
<jussi01> exactly my point Pricey :)
<nalioth> Pricey: we're running over.
<Pici> I think a wiki page would work fine for this, we don't need gobby since we aren't going to be modifying this real-time together
<nalioth> jussi01: please let us know where you post your document.
<nalioth> any other input?
<jussi01> OK, well that looks like end of meeting to me.
<Pici> Aye
<nalioth> ok, everybody take care.  see you next time.
<elky> cyas
<jussi01> nini
<Pici> tata
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-04
<Sinatra> If anyone would happen to know how to download text messages from my Motorola Q to my desktop computer, please message me. This is very important and I am sure there are some very smart people in here who will be able to help me.  I have found a copy of the vol.pim file on the phone if that helps.  Again, please /msg me if you can help!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-06
<happyaron> oubiwann:
<happyaron> oubiwann: sorry, wrong nick
<Vantrax> we will be getting started with the Asia-Oceania RMB Meeting in 5 min
<zkriesse> hey vanhoof
<zkriesse> argh..tab fail
<zkriesse> i meant Vantrax
<Vantrax> #startmeeting Asia-Oceania RMB meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 04:59. The chair is Vantrax.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<humphreybc> herrow
<Vantrax> Hi zkriesse
<Vantrax> Summoning Asia-Oceania RMB, persia, fenris, elky, takdir, lifeless, freeflying, amachu
<nisshh> hey all
 * persia peers about
<freeflying> Vantrax: hi
<humphreybc> gidday persia
<elky> Hai!
 * zkriesse can vote now!
<nisshh> hey elky
<happyaron> hey lifeless_
<Vantrax> sorry zkriesse not here you cant
<Vantrax> only the board can vote
<zkriesse> oh darnit..forgot..
<zkriesse> wish i could
<nisshh> zkriesse: lol
<Destine> hi all
<Vantrax> input is always welcome tho
<pocoyo> Destine: you hi. :D
<oneleaf> hi all
<happyaron> oneleaf: hi
<wzssyqa> oneleaf: hi
<Vantrax> so im seeing freeflying elky persia and myself here, we have quorum
<Destine> oneleaf, hi
<Vantrax> Nasir Khan Saikat you here today?
<Vantrax> ping nasirkhan
<Vantrax> Ok, im going to remove him from the list, thats 4 in a row hes not been here
<zkriesse> guess he's not worried about it anymore
<Vantrax> Benjamin Humphrey
<humphreybc> hi
<Vantrax> hiya
 * zkriesse is here to support Ben
<humphreybc> how goes it?
<Vantrax> [TOPIC] humphreybc for Ubuntu Membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  humphreybc for Ubuntu Membership
<Vantrax> Give us your story:P
<humphreybc> well
 * thorwil proposes the crowd cheers for humphreybc and it's declared an obvious case!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> let's see
<nisshh> heh
 * nisshh loves storytime :)
<Vantrax> thorwil, shhh, we have to go through the process:P
<humphreybc> I started using Ubuntu at the beginning of last year, quickly got involved in the community, started my own project at the end of last year which turned into something rather huge, was sponsored and attended UDS in Brussels this past May, work heavily on several projects right now: Ubuntu Manual Project, OMG! Ubuntu!, Ayatana, Ayatana UX, work closely with the design team and a few other bits and pieces
<humphreybc> and the rest is history?
<Vantrax> pretty much
<humphreybc> I have a wiki page
<humphreybc> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/humphreybc
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/humphreybc
<humphreybc> :)
<Vantrax> so, assuming you do get confirmed what are your next plans?
<humphreybc> and I think I have some ridiculous amount of karma too
<zkriesse> If I may say, humphreybc does an awesome job leading the manual project and he's a good friend who's willing to help and share his knowledge
<nisshh> zkriesse: i think we get to that in a bit
<humphreybc> well, we have some pretty awesome stuff planned for OMG! Ubuntu!, at UDS I hung out with the design team a lot and we're working on some new stuff to improve first use cases for Ubuntu in Maverick, or +1
<humphreybc> Obviously UMP will continue on till eternity and we have a crapload of things happening there
<humphreybc> there's this which should be fun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
 * Vantrax loves the support and learning center
<humphreybc> And we need to get Ayatana UX back on track
<Vantrax> Okies, who here wants to give a testimony for humphreybc
<humphreybc> but yeah, basically: lots of stuff to do, not enough time. Although, that's fairly common in open source :P
 * nisshh does
 * zkriesse does
<humphreybc> ah yes, Ryan!
<Vantrax> go ahead
<humphreybc> and Zach :)
<nisshh> ok, me first
<zkriesse> nisshh: ya got it first
<nisshh> hehe
<thorwil> humphreybc is incredible energetic, learns fast, listens and makes people get stuff done (besides getting stuff done himself)
<humphreybc> Both of these chaps have done quite a bit of work in UMP which is cool
<humphreybc> oh and of course we all know Thorsten
<thorwil> :)
<freeflying> humphreybc: Specification Tracking 34189
<freeflying> its awesome
<Vantrax> ok anyone not ready to vote?
<nisshh> humphreybc, is a great guy to work with, he is always listening and alway willing to help you out. I really enjoy hanging out on IRC with him and hope there are some great times to come.
<humphreybc> freeflying: haha
<nisshh> lol
<persia> humphreybc: So, you've come to our board before, and it's nice to see you back.  Is there anything specific that you think has changed between then and now, or just more volume of the same things?
<zkriesse> Well let's see...ben is an awesome guy to work with, so glad he was willing to have me on the UMP...guess my wiki skills help somewhat but i've a lot to learn. Ben is willing to teach though and i'm glad he's around....
<Vantrax> oohh nice question persia
<humphreybc> persia: well, I think it's a tonne of new stuff, but in large volumes too. Last time I was here I think I certainly wasn't ready for membership, but since then I've started a couple of projects (which have been pretty successful thus far), been sponsored for a UDS, been mentioned in Mark's keynote(!) and of course picked up writing and podcasting for OMG! Ubuntu!
<humphreybc> I've also got into design a lot more and am working with the design team in London on an almost daily basis, which is great.
<thorwil> there's also a running website and a successfull release of the manual
<jenkins> I would also say humphreybc is great, he has made sure there is a something for people to do, he is always open to new suggestions and willing to help.
<humphreybc> thorwil: oh yeah, I think we've surpassed 100,000 downloads now or something
<humphreybc> :)
<jenkins> and quickshot
<humphreybc> and I've been doing a bit more with my LoCo too
<humphreybc> although, #ubuntu-nz is fairly quiet. I have been to an NZ python user group meeting though. Tim Penhey dragged me along
<vish> yeah , go humphreybc!  :D
<humphreybc> haha
<Vantrax> humphreybc, involved in the Ubuntu stuff at Linux.conf.au?
<humphreybc> Vantrax: nope, you'll have to tell me about it
<Vantrax> yeah, was in wellington this year
<humphreybc> ahh
<Vantrax> brisbane next year:P
<humphreybc> Hmm
<humphreybc> I could save up..
<Vantrax> okies anyone not ready to vote?
 * humphreybc is still a poor student
 * zkriesse would if he could
<Vantrax> you should, its one of the top linux conferences in the world
 * nisshh might get there
<Vantrax> anyway, that is something to talk about later
<humphreybc> at least nisshh lives in Australia
<nisshh> :)
<humphreybc> Although on on the wrong side
<nisshh> west coast yea
<humphreybc> Vantrax: yeah, I'll chase you up on details
 * humphreybc makes a post it note
<ball> Presumably only existing members have a valid vote?
<Vantrax> [VOTE] humphreybc for Ubuntu Membership (Board member votes only please)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  humphreybc for Ubuntu Membership (Board member votes only please).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<freeflying> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from freeflying. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Vantrax> humphreybc, do that, been meaning to chase you up and help you out with your projects too
<humphreybc> :)
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Vantrax> poke persia
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<zkriesse> Vantrax: when this is done open a pm with me plz if yo don't mind
<Vantrax> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<Vantrax> Well done humphreybc
<zkriesse> CONGRATS humphreybc!!!!!!!!!!!
<humphreybc> hooray :)
<nisshh> wooooo!
<Vantrax> ill tee you up shortly with your access
<happyaron> humphreybc: congrats!
<thorwil> congrats humphreybc
<humphreybc> Now I can finally spam the planet with Ubuntu Manual posts? ;)
<jenkins> congrats humphreybc
<humphreybc> cheers fellas
<Vantrax> yes humphreybc
<humphreybc> Thanks for coming along for support!
<elky> o.O
<nisshh> np :)
<Vantrax> now, for the board, we had a late addition to the list, want to go ahead and do it anyway, we have the time
 * e-jat sorry for the delay joining the meeting
<Vantrax> thats ok fenris
<e-jat> congrate humphreybc
<humphreybc> Thankyou e-jat!
<wzssyqa> humphreybc: congrate
<zkriesse> oneleaf: ping
<humphreybc> :)
<vish> oh noes! humphreybc is gonna be on the planet ubuntu ;p
<oneleaf> zkriesse: pong
<happyaron> next candidate should be oneleaf, right?
<freeflying> happyaron: yes
<happyaron> freeflying: thx
<Vantrax> happyaron, usually they have to add themselves before the meeting:P
<zkriesse> oneleaf: you listed yourself for requesting ubuntu membership...albiet quite late but nevertheless you have done so
<e-jat> so continue with oneleaf ?
<Vantrax> long as you are all happy to
<oneleaf> ok
<Vantrax> usually the board likes to be able to preread everything
<elky> I really hope this doesn't set a trend of people doing this.
<Vantrax> and have questions
<oneleaf> thx
<zkriesse> elky: agreed
<Vantrax> it makes things much more difficult for us if there are last minute additions which is why im asking the board if they want to process this application this meeting
<oneleaf> sorry for doing so
<Vantrax> thats ok, oneleaf
<e-jat> ouch .. a lot of testi .. :)
<Vantrax> we should probably update the wiki and make it more clear
<happyaron> Vantrax: kind you, :)
<happyaron> yeah
<Destine> Vantrax, thx really
<wzssyqa> Vantrax: thx
<zkriesse> Vantrax: I can grab that if you wish
<oneleaf> thank you.
<humphreybc> bold works quite well
<Vantrax> okies, lets go ahead and do this
<Vantrax> [Topic] Oneleaf for Ubuntu membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneleaf for Ubuntu membership
<Vantrax> go ahead and tell us about your contribution
<oneleaf> I am in charge of the routine work and maintaining of ubuntu.org.cn.
<oneleaf> also, I do administration in the entire china loco team.
<oneleaf> I maintained a online shop on www.taobao.com , it's http://shop33760196.taobao.com/
<oneleaf> My company does business in E-government, and we have promoted ubuntu server to the local goverment. and we would like to promote enterprise cloud to the related government departments. The local government has adopted the Ubuntu server technology we suggested and everything is currently going smoothly. we had cooperated with Oracle and we recommended ubuntu to more than 300 enterprises.
<oneleaf> My company site is http://www.bsw.com.cn/
<oneleaf> i created the ubuntu.org.cn site.
<wzssyqa> Great Ubuntu and great ubuntu.org.cn
<e-jat> oneleaf: how about the desktop .. did the government adopted it also ?
<oneleaf> wiki.ubuntu.org.cn
<freeflying> e-jat: thats a good question, if you have interesting, we can talk a little bit more on this later
<oneleaf> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Oneleaf
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Oneleaf
<e-jat> freeflying: my pleasure ..
<happyaron> :)
<zkriesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Oneleaf
<persia> oneleaf: You've been active in Ubuntu for quite a while now.  What made you decide to apply for membership now?
<oneleaf> i thought i was not qualified yet, and i want to contribute more.
<Vantrax> that is never a bad thing
<happyaron> oneleaf is a modest person as far as I know in daily life
<wzssyqa> when somebody need help,he will be activity
<Destine> he will be very helpful and he is willing to help
<Vantrax> okies, anyone have more questions?
<Vantrax> [VOTE] oneleaf for Ubuntu Membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  oneleaf for Ubuntu Membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<elky> +1
<Vantrax> +1 from me, love the loco involvement and the work your doing in china
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<freeflying> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from freeflying. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Vantrax> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<Vantrax> grats oneleaf
<happyaron> oneleaf: well done!
<zkriesse> congrats dude!
<Vantrax> ill process you shortly too:P
<oneleaf> thank you all
<tenzu> oneleaf: congratulations!
<pocoyo> oneleaf: å~
<Destine> oneleaf, congrats
<Vantrax> Id also like to thank persia for consistently contribution great well researched questions
<Vantrax> unless there is any other matters, ill close the meeting off
 * persia credits memory rather than research :)
<e-jat> aarrhh .. i miss a gain .. btw congrate oneleaf
<Vantrax> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:41.
<Vantrax> thanks for coming all, next none in two weeks, same time
<takdir> hi Vantrax, elky persia freeflying,  sorry i'm late to Asia-Oceania RMB Meeting :(
<Vantrax> takdir, thats ok we finished early
 * persia peers about
<dyfet> true almost time
 * davidm sees persia peering about and wonders why persia is peering about
<jykae> FYI, my blog just started http://jykae.blogspot.com/
<ogra> dyfet, there wasnt a mail ?
<dyfet> There wasn't??
<ogra> on the mobile list
<dyfet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is dyfet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<GrueMaster> morning
<dyfet> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100706
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100706
<dyfet> ping: persia GrueMaster davidm ogra NCommander rsalveti
<dyfet> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<ogra> dyfet, agenda misses a c/o item for persia and me
<persia> Why?
<dyfet> It does?
<davidm> G'day all
 * persia thought it was dropped as c/o as done.
<ogra> persia, was it ?
<ogra> oh, ok
<dyfet> okay....
<ogra> i know you are working on it anyway
<lag> o/
<dyfet> The first action item I had was actually to introduce ricardo
<rsalveti> \o/
<dyfet> [topic] Introduction of rsalveti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Introduction of rsalveti
<lag> Hi Ricardo :)
<dyfet> Maybe davidm would like to do this?
<rsalveti> lag: hi :-)
<davidm> rsalveti, can introduce himself if he likes
<davidm> welcome aboard rsalveti
<rsalveti> yeah, I can talk a little about myself
<dyfet> okay :)
<rsalveti> nice to be part of this team :-)
<dyfet> And welcome to the team also!
<rsalveti> so, I just started yesterday, without doing much work actually, just setting up email, irc and reading the wiki :-)
<ogra> slacker !!!
<ogra> j/k
<rsalveti> previously I've been working with arm and debian based os on work and personally
<rsalveti> lately I've been working closely with ST-E, with the new boards they have, the U8500
<rsalveti> hacking maemo on it, accelerating the Xserver and some other base system customization
<rsalveti> now I'm returning back to omap :-)
<rsalveti> I just have on beagleboard b5 in hands, so can't do much work related with maverick, but I can try :-)
<ogra> rsalveti, we have a porter box in the datacenter and a PPA for testbuilds
<ogra> so you have access to some HW for the start at least
<rsalveti> and I'm based on brazil, but that's not that nice to say anymore, as we're out the world cup already :-)
<dyfet> Okay :)
<rsalveti> ogra: yeah, I saw that
<rsalveti> nice, can do some builds there, if needed
<ogra> rsalveti, germany will substitute for brazil :)
<ogra> no worries :)
<NCommander> (here' sorry, late)
<rsalveti> ogra: haha, yeah :-)
<GrueMaster> Thpppppt!
<dyfet> I do not think we had any other action items before standing items...and I see NCommander made it :)
<dyfet> NCommander: if you want, we can cover any akedemy news during the ftbfs status?
<NCommander> the internt here chose a great time to gave out. I'm on UMTS at the moment
<NCommander> dyfet: sure
<rsalveti> but that's most of it, glad I can meet everyone in prague soon :-)
<NCommander> but don't wait for me, I might drop off again (yay flakely internet)
<dyfet> Then maybe we should do so now...
<dyfet> [topic] Akademy report from NCommander
<MootBot> New Topic:  Akademy report from NCommander
<NCommander> So as some of uknow, I'm currently in Tampere, Finland, attending Akademy 2010
<NCommander> I've been having discussions on how we can improve the state of KDE on ARM (with the big one being this afternoon), as well as seeing presentations from Nokia on MeeGo (and learning enough about it to be interested)
<NCommander> I've also see KDE's work on moving into the mobile stack and becoming a desktop environment suitable for both the traidtional desktpo, netbooks, and mobile devices.
 * NCommander kicks his keyboard for that earlier typo
<dyfet> Do we have any news on upstream issues?
<NCommander> KDE FTBFS? Not really, expect for the fact they exist. Still on my TODO list, but will be dealt with in tonights ession
<dyfet> NCommander: okay :)
<NCommander> Riddell ran a good session on what Kubuntu brings to KDE< and its current shortcomings and such
<ogra> NCommander, i think dyfet meant the QT upsteam issues
<ogra> that were discussed last time between you and asac
<NCommander> ogra: I'm scheldued to have dinner with a Nokia representive on this topic
 * ogra knows there was mail exchange initiated
<NCommander> The conversation hasn't taken place yet
<ogra> k
<NCommander> so "Watch This Spot" :-)
<dyfet> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<dyfet> [link]http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<dyfet> [link]http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<dyfet> I hope that was the right link...
<ogra> yeah, both are
<ogra> A3 looks very bad
<dyfet> yea it does
<ogra> dyfet, note that for the edid thing, only omap3 is relevant
<ogra> omap4 does EDID detection in-kernel (more or less successful)
<dyfet> and some are mine...
<ogra> njpatel, do you know anything about the upanel status for armel 2D sessions ?
<dyfet> last week I was focused too much on ftbfs and related things...
 * ogra knows he shuld rather ping ted but he isnt around atm
<njpatel> ogra, nope, I thought you guys were working on it?
<njpatel> (with ted's help)
<ogra> njpatel, no ?
<ogra> njpatel, ted was supposed to giv me some initial upstream code i can start from
<njpatel> okay, I see
 * ogra will discuss that offline though 
<njpatel> also, I think I have a bug to fix too
<njpatel> okay
<dyfet> okay also
<ogra> njpatel, for ?
<njpatel> structs to make it behave like a panel
<NCommander> A large part of my work items are quick, but hinge on cjwatson. I plan to knock out sunarch detection fully during Prague
<ogra> njpatel, ah, i wish we had a panel yet :)
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> wait
<ogra> but lets talk about it when ted is around
<NCommander> what happened to my blueprint!
<ogra> NCommander, target set properly?
<njpatel> k :)
<NCommander> ogra: it should be.
<ogra> NCommander, Milestone Target: None
<dyfet> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<NCommander> ogra: ugh, can you fix that? LP is very slow over UMTS
<ogra> NCommander, and softbootloader is at ubuntu-10.10
<dyfet> neither are here, are they? :)
<ogra> NCommander, do you think softbootloader makes sense at all since we're using u-boot across the board atm ?
<ogra> dyfet, you are to fast
<NCommander> ogra: u-boot still is lacking many features we want, and doesn't properly separate first and second stage bootloading
<ogra> NCommander, i think davidm has to set the target milestone
<NCommander> ^- davidm
<ogra> NCommander, but u-boot is already very slow, adding the softbootloader will add additional latency, no ?
<NCommander> ogra: I'm not super concerned that we need it, its more that it would be "it would be nice"
<NCommander> ogra: not really. unlike u-boot, the linux kernels drivers are usually optimized, and softbootloader can replace u-boot on most platforms
<ogra> how do you load linux ?
<ogra> you still need u-boot first
<NCommander> ogra: tiny ASM stub that sets up ATAGS and jumps to a kernel address in flash
<ogra> unless the spec changed a lot lately
<NCommander> CENSORED did this on several of their boards.
<NCommander> this was discussed at UDS, and I put it in the wiki
<NCommander> I might not have updated the LP summary htough
<ogra> k
<NCommander> ogra: this is a project that probably should go over to Linaro, but it got pushed back to us/me
<ogra> i dont see any implementation plan for that though
<ogra> i agree that linaro should take it
<davidm> I think softbootloader is a lower priority since we don't have to have it and there are other things we do need this cycle.
<dyfet> then we don't need to add an action item/task for it?
<ogra> though i know they are working on a unified u-boot that might give us all we want
<NCommander> ogra: we shall see.
 * ogra would drop it from the maverick targets
<ogra> i really expect that we'll still have lots of issues with omap4 for which we need all manpower we can put together
<rsalveti> yeah, probably
 * ogra sees lots of errors and also oopses booting the omap4 images on his panda
<davidm> ogra, I think I agree with you to drop it as a target
<NCommander> ogra: that works for me, but we should still keep improved subarch detection
<ogra> we should look over the other items too and drop what we can for A3
<ogra> i.e. the medium item that shows up on the tracker atm
<dyfet> [action] review a3 work items
<MootBot> ACTION received:  review a3 work items
<ogra> though its 1 month we have until A3
<ogra> and we have rsalveti now :)
<rsalveti> \o/
<ogra> rsalveti, would you have interest in taking over rootstock ? that doesnt require any HW
<dyfet> Do we want to jump to qa status?
<ogra> dyfet, could we go by topic ?
<rsalveti> ogra: yeah, if it still target for a3, then yes I can take it
<ogra> rsalveti, well, mainly its merging all the patches and looking into the bugs that are currently on LP
<rsalveti> ogra: sure :-)
<ogra> i didnt have any time to take care for rootstock at all in maverick yet
<rsalveti> I kind of used with rootstock code already, will see what I can do with it
<ogra> there are also the items for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-image-builds-without-root but forst of all rootstock needs some bug love
<ogra> right, thats what i thought
<ogra> until you have HW thats probably a good task
<rsalveti> nice, so I'll take it
<ogra> thanks !
<rsalveti> np :-)
<ogra> so kernel status ...
<ogra> lag, anything to report ?
<dyfet> since we called the topic early...:)
 * ogra just talked to tgardner, we'll get an omap4 upload soon with lots of TI fixes
<ogra> dyfet, lag should be in the kernel team reporter list on the agenda btw
<lag> Nope
<ogra> since he is in a TZ thats most likely to be around when we have the meeting
<lag> Unless you want to know what I am doing?
<dyfet> orga: ok...
<ogra> well, i know what you're doing :)
<lag> ogra: Its 2am here
<ogra> lag, huh ?
<lag> ;)
<ogra> did the uk move recently ?
<lag> Comet?
<ogra> ashamed of the world cup you moved out of europe ?
<rsalveti> haha :-)
<ogra> hiding behind AUS :)
<lag> Oh yes, they're much better
<ogra> heh
<lag> Luckily, I hate football :)
<dyfet> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<lag> And expect us to lose
<GrueMaster> New board received.  Need to get more info on getting it working.  Nothing on serial port after loading kernel, even with console=ttyS0,115200 added to boot cmd.  Nothing on DVI monitor.
<GrueMaster> Will work on offline.
<ogra> GrueMaster, no DVI support
<ogra> you need to use HDMI
<ogra> (i told you before :) )
<ogra> plain HDMI, no adapters allowed
<GrueMaster> Filed lots of bugs late last week on omap3.
<ogra> GrueMaster, also the 20100706.1 images should be ok to boot now
<ogra> i fixed a bunch of issues today
<dyfet> Anything else on qa?
<GrueMaster> not really unless we want a rundown of each bug.
<ogra> GrueMaster, also https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-July/011491.html for the uncompressing kernel issue
<ogra> GrueMaster, it just hides that message
<dyfet> no ;)
<ogra> GrueMaster, but boots fine
<ogra> dyfet, move :)
<dyfet> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<NCommander> Nothing to report
<ogra> the list grew a bit
<dyfet> Well, I did a lot of ftbfs, but avoiding the kde/qt blocked ones, so they were non-critical packages
<ogra> directfb, eucalyptus, not sure what jetty is ... subversion ...
<ogra> openjdk is also there and breaking oo.o builds
<dyfet> I also did not touch the openjdk one, which is what blocks eucalpytus and oo, yes...
<ogra> thats a critical one
<ogra> seems that ca-certificates calls keytool, which is a java app ... and which segfaults
<ogra> keytool comes from the former java build
<ogra> so that needs tinkering with lamont
<ogra> someone has to provide a working keytool to him so it can be installed manually to fulfill the build dependency
<dyfet> Seems time to learn java runtime ;)
<ogra> dyfet, can you take care for that, i know doko doesnt have the time to care for openjdk for us this time
<ogra> dyfet, also talk to hrw, he did testbuilds of it already (which intrestingly succeeded)
<dyfet> ogra: okay, and lets have that as an action item for next week
<ogra> might be a skew between beagle and babbage
<dyfet> [action] openjdk status (dyfet)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  openjdk status (dyfet)
<ogra> hrw built it on a beagle, so a test on babbage would be a good point to start
<dyfet> Good, I will ask him to start with
<dyfet> I think that covers ftbfs issues...
<ogra> go ahead
<dyfet> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
 * ogra looks at NCommander ... 
<ogra> tell us
<ogra> *g*
<ogra> indeed i'm kidding :)
<NCommander> OMAP3 preinstalled images exist, and work. OMAp4 images now exist
<ogra> we have omap4 dailies since yesterday
<NCommander> and at least boot, although ogra was reporting issues with oem-config
<ogra> its not oem-config
<NCommander> ogra: oh, it was X?
<ogra> the panda just grinds to a halt at some point
<NCommander> ogra: ow.
<ogra> it was X because we didnt set mem=463M on the initial cmdline
<ogra> with that fixed it boots into oem-config
<NCommander> ogra: blaze has done the same for me when I tried it earlier :-/
<ogra> which works or works not, based on the halts
<ogra> no oopses or anything in the logs sadly
<ogra> tim just uploaded a new omap4 kernel which i hope to fix such issues
<ogra> i suspect the MMC driver to be at fault here
<ogra> since whats in ram seems to work, i have a fully installed pandaboard atm ... it works for a while but then doesnt move for stuff that has to come from MMC
<ogra> i havent tested omap3 images since A2
<ogra> ...
<ogra> thats all for image status
<dyfet> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<GrueMaster> I was going to add we still need md5sums & manifests for the daily images.
<NCommander> dyfet: please action item me on that
<NCommander> (it might not get done however until Prague)
<dyfet> [action] md5sums and manifests for daily images (NCommander)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  md5sums and manifests for daily images (NCommander)
<ogra> we have bugs for that
<ogra> no need for an action
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> not for the manifest ... but for md5sums
 * ogra assignst it to NCommander 
<dyfet> hmm...he did ask...
<NCommander> ogra: manifest needs livecd-rootfs changes to be generated with preinstalled images.
<NCommander> (serious headache)
<ogra> i think we have then
 * ogra will check that
<dyfet> okay...any other business...?
<ogra> yeah
<NCommander> ogra: we're also missing list if we want to be technical. Also on my list to reimplement
<ogra> NCommander, manifest is generated
<ogra> just pull it from the livefs builder
<ogra> NCommander, and bug 600261 is yours now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600261 in Ubuntu CD Images "Need to calculate md5sums for arm preinstalled images" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600261
<NCommander> _\o/_ :-P
<ogra> gah, i cant targets that to a release or milestone
<ogra> NCommander, imagine its targeted to A3 :)
<NCommander> ogra: I left my imagination in the United States
<ogra> mail address ?
<ogra> i'll send a letter :)
<NCommander> :-P
<ogra> anyway, seems thats it for AOB
<dyfet> we are close to time, last call for any other items...
<ogra> or not ?
<dyfet> going...
<dyfet> going...
<dyfet> gone
<dyfet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:58.
<cjwatson> hi
<soren> o/
<geser> o/
<cjwatson> cody-somerville,persia: around?
<cody-somerville> I'm around.
<persia> mostly
<cjwatson> stgraber sent his apologies by mail
<cjwatson> no sign of nixternal?
<cjwatson> ok, well, we can run with 5
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Review of action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of action items
<cjwatson> persia to publish the minutes for the DMB meeting 2010-05-25
<persia> Not done
<cjwatson> [ACTION] persia to publish the minutes for the DMB meeting 2010-05-25
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to publish the minutes for the DMB meeting 2010-05-25
<cjwatson> cjwatson to create ubuntu-kernel-uploaders team owned by the DMB that will provide upload permissions to Ubuntu kernel packages
<cjwatson> done
<cjwatson> cjwatson to create a zope packageset incorporating the Zope, Zope Community, and Python Packaging sections, and a schooltool packageset for the SchoolTool section
<Rhonda> Ah, just in time for startmeeting. :)  Sorry for being late, my X11 did trouble me - will have to file that bugreport finally. ;)
<cjwatson> done insofar as currently possible due to availability of packages in the archive; sent mail
<cjwatson> Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
<cody-somerville> Not done. Will do that today or tomorrow.
<cjwatson> [ACTION] Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters
<cjwatson> there are a couple of things on the list, but in the spirit of Cody's action let's leave them 'til the end
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] core-dev application: Robert Ancell
<MootBot> New Topic:  core-dev application: Robert Ancell
<cjwatson> Robert is in an inconvenient timezone for our meetings, but has been waiting a while; can we consider him anyway?
<cjwatson> in absentia
<cody-somerville> I don't object to it.
<cjwatson> I've certainly been seeing substantial volume of uploads from Robert which in my view is appropriate to the level we'd expect from core-dev applicants
<persia> I'm not sure I understand the rationale for the core-dev application, and I don't see a lot of cross-flavour work (not negative, but missing positive points)
<cody-somerville> I agree. I sometimes have found that Robert should have taken a bit more care with a few things (and I see this echoed in his endorsements on the wiki).
<cjwatson> my impression is that it's for things like glib, gtk, and other such things
<persia> Quite likely, indeed.
<cjwatson> I agree that some of Robert's endorsements note the need for extra care; on the other hand those very endorsements also say that they trust him
<cody-somerville> I also didn't much care for some of his changes to gcalctool last cycle but oh well, lol.
<cjwatson> [admin: I plan to allow this to run up to :20 if necessary]
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: I don't have the background; do you believe it's relevant to the application, and if so can you go into more detail?
<cody-somerville> They were upstream changes (as he is the upstream maintainer) so probably not relevant as they were not packaging changes.
<cody-somerville> As long as he doesn't try making random usability improvements to packages, I think we're good.
<cjwatson> most of Robert's changes certainly are desktop in *character*, although as we know the ubuntu-desktop package set often misses a good deal of stuff that's sufficiently embedded in the dependency web to be considered core, right now
<cjwatson> for example nautilus is core, though I should perhaps add that to the exception list
<cjwatson> does anyone have further questions or comments before we move to a vote?
<persia> As much as I don't want to make it annoying for applicants, if we're approving people for core because we're deferring detangling, that seems unfotunate: if someone is suitable as core-dev, they ought be suitable for core-dev specifically, separate from the packagesets.
<cjwatson> well, there are two aspects: motivation and suitability
<persia> Right.
<cjwatson> Robert's motivation is likely to be influenced by lack of detangling, and I think that's reasonable
<cjwatson> but we should certainly consider suitability in isolation
<cjwatson> one minute left before my self-imposed deadline; I don't want to cut discussion short, but it's hard to tell whether people are busy typing or mulling it over. :)
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
 * soren too
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Approve Robert Ancell for ubuntu-core-dev
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Robert Ancell for ubuntu-core-dev.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> I'm not going to get more ready to vote in the next short while
<soren> persia: :)
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<soren> +1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> geser,persia: please vote
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1 :  the work is good, and the comments good, and Robert has shown sufficient commitment that I'm sure I'd approve him in the future, even if it takes a couple complaints first.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<cjwatson> congratulations to Robert; I'll implement that
<persia> But in future, I think I don't like in-abstentia processing: in the MC, we used to have special ad-hoc meetings when the time was otherwise unsuitable, which was more satisfying.
<cjwatson> perhaps that would be more sensible.  nobody objected earlier :-)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] PPU application: Chase Douglas
<MootBot> New Topic:  PPU application: Chase Douglas
<cjwatson> let me see if I can chase down Chase
<geser> nobody replied to my mail how we process this application
<soren> geser: hm? When did you send it?
<geser> after the last DMB meeting
<cjwatson> geser: I'm sorry, I missed that
<cjwatson> [this is re Robert's]
<persia> I'm happy to have tried in-abstentia: as I now know I dislike it that much more :)
<cjwatson> let's move on, and we can come back to Chase later
<cjwatson> (I've prodded him elsewhere)
<cjwatson> aha, timing
<cjwatson> cnd: hi
<geser> soren: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/developer-membership-board/2010-June/000252.html
<soren> geser: Yup, /just/ found it myself :)
<soren> geser: Sorry about that :(
<cjwatson> I'm going to move on until cnd gets his client fixed
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] PPU application: Micah Gersten
<MootBot> New Topic:  PPU application: Micah Gersten
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/MozillaUploaderApp
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/MozillaUploaderApp
<cjwatson> sorry, this isn't really PPU, it's for the Mozilla package set
<cjwatson> micahg: are you here?
<micahg> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> hi, thanks for showing up again
<micahg> cjwatson: np :)
<cjwatson> [admin: planning to call time on this topic at :40 if not done before then]
<cody-somerville> micahg, You run Xubuntu?
<micahg> cody-somerville: yes
<persia> micahg: So, you say you'd like better tools for selecting PPAs: is this something you think would be useful generally, or only in combination with PPAs as used by the mozillateam?  Similarly, are there other means by which it may make sense to accomplish those goals?
<cody-somerville> micahg, Why don't you help the Xubuntu developer team out with packaging? they're always looking for help! :)
<micahg> persia: well, definitely for the Mozilla team, but I think in general as well, I brought it up at UDS, but I don't think we had sufficient time to explore it
<micahg> cody-somerville: I already have a lot of packaging work for the Mozilla team, if I had more time I'd be happy to help
<micahg> cody-somerville: I did 1 SRU that I remember for xubuntu
<cody-somerville> Okay, I'm ready to vote.
 * soren too
 * persia has no more questions
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Approve Micah Gersten for Mozilla package set
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Micah Gersten for Mozilla package set.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> +1 - excellent endorsements
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<cjwatson> micahg: congratulations
<micahg> thanks everyone :)
<chrisccoulson> congrats micahg \o/
<soren> micahg: Thank *you*.
<cjwatson> cnd2: have you got your connection sorted yet? :)
<micahg> Is it ok if I drop out before the meeting ends?
<cnd_> sorry all
<cnd_> on the road
<cnd_> iphone client
<persia> micahg: Thanks for going through the effort of making a formal application after creating the category of developer you wished to be :)
<cjwatson> cnd_: is now a suitable time, or would you prefer to defer to the next meeting?
<cjwatson> (tsk, non-free IRC clients ... ;-) )
<cnd_> i think now is ok
<cnd_> if i drop, just move on
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] PPU application: Chase Douglas
<MootBot> New Topic:  PPU application: Chase Douglas
<cnd_> colloquy is open source btw
<cjwatson> platform then ;-)
<cnd_> :)
<cjwatson> [admin: run to :48]
<cjwatson> cnd_: is there any useful upstream (be that upstream-upstream, or Debian) collaboration happening on the firmware packages?  can there be?
<cnd_>  btw, since i made the application ive also uploaded a new package called trace-cmd
<cnd_> its tricky due to licencing
<cnd_> its tricky due to licensing
<cjwatson> indeed, though I know that there exist firmware packages in Debian too
 * cody-somerville has to go AFK for a bit.
<cnd_> dave woodhouse is trying to consolidate
<cnd_> but we havent been able to open a dialogue with him yet
<cnd_> weve been trying, maybe hes busy?
<cnd_> tim gardner has been leading that effort
<cjwatson> any other questions?
<soren> no
 * persia needs 2-3 minutes, but is unlikely to have a question
 * soren has just been summoned, so needs to run very, very soon.
<cnd_> so wrt trace-cmd, is it possible to get upload rights for it as well
<cjwatson> I'm happy to amend the application for that
<cnd_> its to be maintained by kernel team, but Ill probably be doing most of the work
<cjwatson> let's move to a vote and we can fall back if people are uncomfortable with trace-cmd
<cnd_> ok
<cnd_> thanks
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Approve Chase Douglas for upload rights for linux-firmware, linux-firmware-nonfree, and trace-cmd
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Chase Douglas for upload rights for linux-firmware, linux-firmware-nonfree, and trace-cmd.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1 : technical is fine, and there is enough evidence of coordination and interaction to avoid objection on lack of Membership grounds.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: still here?
<soren> sorry, guys I have to leave.
<cjwatson> soren: thanks
 * cjwatson times out on Cody, given that we got quorum
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<cjwatson> cnd_: congratulations
<cnd_> thanks! and thanks for putting up with my client issues :)
<persia> But if cody-somerville doesn't reappear, we don't have quorum for more, without soren :(
<cjwatson> indeed
<cjwatson> cyphermox: here?
<cyphermox> afaik, I'm next, and I don't object to deferring this until next meeting if necessary.. per
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> *perhaps discussing the first item now?
<cjwatson> we might as well proceed
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] PPU application: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
<MootBot> New Topic:  PPU application: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
<geser> cyphermox: I see that asac didn't manage to add endorsements to your application. Do you know why?
<cyphermox> he was planning on attending
<cjwatson> cyphermox: "using Ubuntu for about 7 years" - that's a good trick!
<cyphermox> did I write that wrong?
<cjwatson> Ubuntu wasn't public 7 years ago ;-)
<cjwatson> or even existing
<cyphermox> I fail :)
<persia> Either that, or you managed to install it before it worked at all
<cjwatson> it was just about sort of starting to be available to limited audiences 6 years ago ;-)
<cyphermox> nah, my calculation was based on my employment in different places and when I started, from memory, so I am just mistaken :)
<cyphermox> anyway, with asac not there, there is not much to say. he *had* added an endorsement to my MOTU app, some time ago
<cjwatson> can we defer to next time and make sure at least asac has weighed in, then?  I'd like to have comments from somebody you've worked with directly
<persia> Didn't we tell you to apply for the NM stack back then during processing that app?
<cyphermox> persia: indeed
<cyphermox> cjwatson: I don't object to it.
<cjwatson> persia: is that "we should carry over asac's comments from the MOTU app"?
 * persia suspects asac's comments at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/DeveloperApplication only apply more, but is happy to defer since we can't make a decision now anyway
<cjwatson> ok
<persia> cjwatson: I'm happy to do so, since they were about NM anyway, but that's a matter of individual concience, I think.
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] MOTU application: Gerfried Fuchs
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU application: Gerfried Fuchs
 * Rhonda is around.
<cjwatson> Rhonda: hi; I don't know if we can finish processing your application today unless Cody returns, as noted above, although we can potentially do some of it and finish off by e-mail
<Rhonda> Yes, followed so far.
<persia> Rhonda: You say you're still learning the procedures.  What parts are most confusing to you still?
<Rhonda> I haven't used PPA yet, but from what I understand that's not a requirement yet. Also, even though I wrote an article about bzr for our company's magazine I haven't used it yet to work on merges. I usually tried to get the Ubuntu diff into the Debian packages so they can sync cleanly. :)
<cjwatson> it's not a requirement
<persia> making the merge irrelevant makes it easier all about, so I'm not sure that it makes sense to process merges the other way if you're happy to upload to Debian instead :)
<Rhonda> One thing that confused me in launchpad once was the state triaged. I found it on a bug for well over a year without any progress and thought it was dangling somehow. I initially had the impression that it could be seen similarly to pending in the Debian BTS.
<cjwatson> [re Rhonda's packages.ubuntu.com comment, I filed this in internal RT to try to get movement on it]
<persia> There's an outstanding rt.ubuntu.com entry: dunno if it makes sense to reference them both (unless I'm mixing this up with another packages.ubuntu.com outstanding issue)
<cjwatson> I looked for the public RT entry and didn't see it
<cjwatson> anyway, not really directly relevant
<cjwatson> it would definitely be good to have somebody actually in the Ubuntu community maintaining that site
<Rhonda> I've sent cjwatson the diff that (hopefully) should be able to get applied to the config.sh file - in git there is only the config.sh.sed.in file which generates the former.
<Rhonda> I'm not that big fan of bottlenecks. ;)
<cjwatson> well, indeed ...
<cjwatson> any further questions (from the few who remain)?
 * persia has none
<Rhonda> I'd like to point out that I'm not a Ubuntu Member yet - I was told that this would/could be processed at the same time?
<geser> Rhonda: motu gives membership
<cjwatson> right, you need to meet the membership requirements in order to join motu
<Rhonda> Right, thought so. Not sure if that would make a difference for the procedures or has to get noted seperately.
<cjwatson> (for that reason)
<nils2> hej folks! did i get it right, that 20.00 UTC is 22.00 Berlin time?
<cjwatson> nils2: yes, but we have another meeting in progress right now
<Rhonda> nils2: At this time of the year, yes. :)
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Approve Gerfried Fuchs for MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Gerfried Fuchs for MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nils2> ah sorry!
<nils2> thank you very much!
<persia> Rhonda: For non-members, we consider the application for membership at the same time.
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1 : Excellent technical history, wide application interest, successful social integration with MOTU team (IRC, etc.), history of QA work.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> +1 - long and good history in Debian that I'm familiar with, along with all the rest
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> I think we have to go to e-mail for the rest
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<cjwatson> I'll bring this up on our list as part of writing the minutes, and we'll let you know the result
<Rhonda> Thanks, appreciated.
<cjwatson> Rhonda: thanks for spending time here
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
 * persia has now (exceedingly belatedly) sent the minutes for the meeting six weeks ago
<cjwatson> thanks
<geser> dholbach | geser: are (any of) you guys going to mail av and emgent about their expired membership?
<geser> any volunteers for this?
<cjwatson> I can do it
<cjwatson> ok, no other business; please follow up to the meeting times thread on the board list if you haven't already done so
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
<quentusrex> Kernel meeting soon?
<persia> quentusrex: 42 minutes or so.
<quentusrex> thanks
<Rhonda> soren, cody-somerville: If you have any questions feel free to query me. :)
<JFo> o/
<jjohansen> \o
 * smb slugs in
<JFo> o/
<kamal> o/
 * manjo zooms in
 * apw slurps tea
 * JFo gives apw some lemon
<apw> LEMON!  are you mad?
<JFo> depends on the tea
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<apw> not in the UK it doesn't :)
<JFo> heh
 * lag runs in and trips on the step - "Doh!"
<smb> Just a drop of milk in his hot water
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open action: manjo to send a firewire patch with test info
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open action: manjo to send a firewire patch with test info
<manjo> bjf, that was already done last week
<JFo> so there is a test kernel out?
<manjo> bjf ..
 * JFo readies his CFT
<manjo> the changed are out yes package uploaded
<JFo> cool ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open action: JFo to put out a CFT on new firewire stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open action: JFo to put out a CFT on new firewire stack
<manjo> tgardner uploaeded the latest package of module-init-tools which contains the sw
<manjo> itch. pgraner and I have tested the new stack, and I have also tested this in Lucid and found to perform better than the old stack. pgraner did tests with dvgrab, kino, and files transfer across HDDs, and all checked out ok. Thanks to pgran
<manjo> er for all the testing. Jfo will issue a call for testing soon. Since this item is all done we can have this item removed from the meeting agenda.
<apw> JFo, put that on the Kernel/Testing page too
<JFo> will send out today
<JFo> will do apw
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<lag>  - Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    - Nothing new this week
<lag>  - Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>     - Nothing new this week
<lag>  - Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * CONFIG   : Activate block IO actions, tracing required by system-tap
<lag>    * CONFIG   : Increase default VRAM allocation size to 32MB
<lag>    * PATCH    : Bug fixing for segfault
<lag>    * PATCH    : Video display fix on Beagleboard
<lag>    * ON GOING : Submitted patches for building Syslink as a module need to be modified
<lag>    * ON GOING : Auto-load Syslink modules on OMAP4 architectures is nearly complete
<lag>    * ON GOING : Still trying to figure out why disabling camera power domain on OMAP3
<lag>                 prevents daisy chain read in Ubuntu system
<lag>    * ON GOING : May fixed DSS2 oops. QA has an image they need to look at. mpoirier has
<lag>                 been testing a lot in his environment without re-occurrence
<lag>    * ON GOING : rtg will be looking at IGEPv2 board - mpoirier shipped the board yesterday
<lag> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (1 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (51 across all packages (up 34)) ====
<JFo>  * 4 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (107 across all packages (up 21)) ====
<JFo>  * 7 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-ti-omap bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> === Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 14 blueprints
<JFo> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:115 (up 5) ====
<JFo>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo>  * Breakdown by status:
<JFo>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> I will add mvl and freescale back for next week's metrics
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<jjohansen> Fixed Bug #581525 both kernel and user space and am about to push out test kernels for reporters to verify
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581525 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Lucid: system becomes unstable randomly, seems related with apparmor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581525
<jjohansen> Have a patch for Bug #599450 that needs to be tested
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<jjohansen> Bug #602261 has been reported as a potential AA issue, looking into it.  We have some compiler patches that reduce memory usage that will get synced with alpha3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602261 in linux (Ubuntu) "Thrashing and OOM during upgrade from 10.04 to Maverick" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602261
<jjohansen> looking into duplicating and the bug and seeing if it is AA
<jjohansen> ..
<apw> jjohansen, note that that bug occurs when running lucid (pre-update kernel)
<apw> ..
<jjohansen> apw: yes
<jjohansen> though it is likely userspace component
<jjohansen> the compiler consumes 80-100MB
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<manjo> tgardner uploaeded the latest package of module-init-tools which contains the sw
<manjo> itch. pgraner and I have tested the new stack, and I have also tested this in Lucid and found to perform better than the old stack. pgraner did tests with dvgrab, kino, and files transfer across HDDs, and all checked out ok. Thanks to pgran
<manjo> er for all the testing. Jfo will issue a call for testing soon. Since this item is all done we can have this item removed from the meeting agenda.
<manjo> ..
<bjf> noted
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<apw> Some work on cleaning up lintian errors is ongoing.  Nothing else to report.
<apw> ..
<manjo> I have pinged luke regarding upgrades, looks like audio packages are current
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<bjf> Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<tgardner> bjf, no change from last week
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen> Have update Xen patchset, that I will start testing today.
<jjohansen> Amazon have opened their pv-grub based loader for general use so I will be revisiting the pv-ops based kernel.
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<bjf> Since we won't be using union-mounts in Maverick, we're planning an aufs update for Alpha3.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<apw> Based on the lack of feedback we will assume staying with aufs2 for Maverick.  Preparations to update aufs2 are in progress.
<apw> ..
<bjf> apw, do we want to keep this on the agenda?
<apw> bjf probabally can come off as of now, thanks
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<bjf> We have 2 misc bugs to close for Alpha3.  Both are already assigned to a kernel dev and In Progress.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<apw> The ureadahead patches remain untested.  Will bring this up with foundations.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<bjf> Changes to Firmware Test Suite this week:
<bjf>  * Additional Tests:
<bjf>    * thermal_trip: Check Thermal Zone trip mechanism.
<bjf>    * cpufreq:      Check P-states across all CPUs.
<bjf>    * bios_info:    Gather BIOS version information.
<bjf>    * microcode:    Check if latest microcode is loaded.
<bjf>    * maxfreq:      Check CPU max freq against BIOS setting.
<bjf>  * Other changes:
<bjf>    * hibernate:    Fix S4 detection bug, check for hibernation phases.
<bjf>    * lid:          Detect GPE activity on lid events.
<bjf>    * WMI:          Only dump driver writing advice text out once.
<bjf>    * ACPI tables:  Extract ACPI tables without the need for acpidump.
<bjf>  * * Misc:
<bjf>    * Wrote Python version of acpidump for inclusion into apport
<bjf>    * Maverick PPA builds for new code.
<bjf> ..
<apw> progressing rapidly, nice ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<bjf> linux-2.6.35-6.9 was uploaded immediately upon Alpha2's release.  I expect the upstream 2.6.35-rc4 kernel to land relatively soon.  We'll of course rebase our Maverick kernel at that time.
<bjf> Alpha 3 is Thurs Aug 5th which is about a month away.  We are towering over the Alpha 3 burn down chart's trend line, so please review the list of work items for Alpha 3 and start closing out tasks:
<bjf> ..
<bjf> LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<apw> not sure we are over the line for alpha3 currently ?
<bjf> ..
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.84  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-28.70  (security)
<smb>              2.6.24-28.71  (proposed)[18]  0 / 1 verifications done
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-19.61  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-22.60  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-22.61  (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-214.28 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-214.29 (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-112.28 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-112.29 (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-307.15 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-307.16 (waiting for approval)
<smb> Lucid:       2.6.32-23.37  (updates)
<smb>              2.6.32-24.38  (proposed)[ 1]  0/ 4 verifications done
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.32-24.38  (proposed)[ 0]  0/ 1 verifications done
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.32-206.19 (updates)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-608.15 (updates)
<smb>  - ti-omap   2.6.33-502.8  (updates)
<smb>  - qcm-msm   2.6.31-802.5  (updates)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.32-307.12 (updates)
<smb>  
<smb> Lucid has been reuploaded with a proposed kernel that addresses a lot of
<smb> ext4 issues. If all goes to plan this gets moved to updates soon enough
<smb> to have a security update before Jul-28 which is the first point release.
<smb>  
<smb> Karmic is still not accepted because of the abstracted.debian backport.
<smb> As there is a security update pending we need to eihter get someone
<smb> take the risk and accept it into proposed, or we need to revert everything
<smb> and get the minimal changes uploaded. Though the security update would
<smb> be based on the version currently in updates, I think it would require
<smb> a very careful merging back and together with the branches needing special
<smb> care cause the whole validation of the builds being void.
<smb> tgardner, pgraner Would you think that Steve would take that risk if you asked him?
 * apw seconds the laast paragraph.
<tgardner> possibly
<tgardner> especially after we show that the binary packages are identical
<tgardner> ..
<smb> tgardner, Would you take the action of talking to him, then?
<tgardner> smb, sure
<smb> ok thanks
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 50 Maverick Bugs (up 22)
<JFo> 1028 Lucid Bugs (up 48)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 27 maverick bugs (up 15)
<smb> bjf, correction, the version of lbm in lucid proposed is 2.6.32-24.17
<JFo>   * 224 lucid bugs (up 1: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 40 lucid bugs (up 6)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 151 lucid bugs (up 9)
<JFo>   * 45 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 19 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 2 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Community Bug days will resume next Tuesday. The focus will be on Fix Committed bugs. We will be looking to ensure that Fixes that were committed were in fact released so we can set their status appropriately. I'll be sending out an e-mail announcing this tomorrow.
<JFo> We'll again be having the Team Bug Day over Friday and Monday as half days
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> o/
<kamal> o/
<bjf> apw, go
<apw> i am wondering if we should re-purpose the wiki 5th button from advanced to FAQ
<apw> the advanced topics page is empty(!) and the faq is starting to contain useful things
<JFo> I think FAQ
<apw> ..
<bjf> apw, that sounds good
<smb> +1
<sconklin> +1
<JFo> I have a ton of things that need to go to an FAQ
<bjf> +1
<JFo> +1
 * apw takes that as a yes ...
<apw> ..
<bjf> kamal, go
<kamal> bug 594837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594837 in linux (Ubuntu) "Lucid SRU: Intel Core i3/i5/i7 hang on resume from suspend (SCI_EN)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594837
<kamal> Just FYI - gregkh says this may get applied to stable sometime this week, so we can continue to wait on that I think.
<kamal> ..
 * smb agrees
<apw> is that the SCI_EN one ?
<kamal> yes
<apw> ack ..
<bjf> anyone else have anything?
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:28.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<kamal> thanks bjf
<apw> thanks bjf
<smb> thanks bjf
<zul> gday
<SpamapS> ahoi
<sommer> o//
<jiboumans> will be starting shortly, wrapping up a call
 * MichealH waits
<smoser> o/
<MichealH> Hey smoser
<SpamapS> ~\o
<mathiaz> \~\
<MichealH> First Kernel team meeting here... Want to get involved :D
<hallyn> o\
<MichealH> o/
<ogra_cmpc> MichealH, i think kernel was 1h ago
<kirkland> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<SpamapS> \o/
<MichealH> ogra_cmpc: Ooooops
 * MichealH hides
<jiboumans> good morning
<MichealH> Oh well I was orriginally here for the EMEA membership thing :)
<ogra_cmpc> thats in 1h
<SpamapS> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:04. The chair is SpamapS.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jiboumans> thanks all for joining
<jiboumans> i'm today's chair and scribe
 * SpamapS is the chair proxy
<jiboumans> I'll have to possibly leave a bit early, at which point SpamapS will continue (thanks for that)
<SpamapS> jiboumans: agenda url so I can keep up w/ your topics?
<jiboumans> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<SpamapS> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jiboumans> jjohansen to send email regarding atop patchset
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jiboumans> that was done
<Daviey> \o
<jiboumans> mathiaz to provide work items for Alpha3 on his specs by Thursday
<jiboumans> while mathiaz answers
<jiboumans> SpamapS to ask kees whether it's good to seed
<SpamapS> Kees says ok to seed libmemcached and memcached into main
<mathiaz> that was done
<SpamapS> :)
<jiboumans> spamaps++
<jiboumans> nice, good to have it
<jiboumans> jjohansen to appropriately prioritze bug 576066
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576066 in linux (Ubuntu) "ums_cypress missing from lucid server cd" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576066
<jjohansen> the kernel team needs some clarification on the bug
<jiboumans> jjohansen: anything we can do in the meeting here?
<jjohansen> maybe
<jjohansen> we were looking for what releases and cd's needed the update
<jiboumans> ok, let's talk about it right after the other action point
<jjohansen> Lucid server install, alternate, maverick
<jjohansen> from a quick look this seems to be present in maverick
<jjohansen> but I don't have the hardware to test
<jjohansen> so we were going to request that as well
 * zkriesse walk into the maverick meeting?
<jiboumans> zkriesse: ubuntu server team meeting
<jiboumans> jjohansen: does our QA team have it per chance?
<MichealH> ogra_cmpc: Its in 2 hours acctually
<zkriesse> oh cool
<jiboumans> hggdh: ^
<MichealH> jiboumans: Its not on the calendar?!?
<jjohansen> jiboumans, hggdh: I haven't checked yet
<jiboumans> jjohansen: let's move this over to next week then
<jiboumans> gives you some time to consult and check with hggdh if they have the hardware
<jjohansen> okay, thanks
<jiboumans> sommer to ping mdke re: refresh issue, through email this time
<SpamapS> [ACTION] hrough email this time
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hrough email this time
<SpamapS> 11:14 ... join!#ubuntu-meeting -> ikoni
<SpamapS> doh
<sommer> haven't heard back on that... will ping again
<jiboumans> ok, carry over
<SpamapS> [ACTION] sommer to ping mdke re: refresh issue, through email this time
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to ping mdke re: refresh issue, through email this time
<jiboumans> sommer: if we can help somehow, please ask
<jiboumans> everyone to assign themselves to 2 papercuts from https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-3
<zkriesse> If you guys are trying to get ahold of mdke it'll take some time
<jiboumans> only https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/125609 left
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 125609 in irqbalance (Ubuntu) "X is required to build irqbalance" [Low,Triaged]
<jiboumans> zkriesse: why's that?
<zul> ill take it
<jiboumans> zul++ thanks
<zkriesse> jiboumans: Last few times i've tried contacting him through email/irc he's not responded
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Maverick development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development
<jiboumans> I've sent out a request to update blueprints
<jiboumans> not everyone has done so yet unfortunately
<mathiaz> I've worked on creating a status template
<kirkland> jiboumans: do you have specific BP's in mind?
<jiboumans> [ACTION] kirkland, daviey, hallyn, zul, ttx, spamaps to update their blueprints by Wednesday EOB
<hallyn> jiboumans: maybe there's more to 'updating' them than i thought?  is there a url telling us what needs to be doen?
<jiboumans> kirkland: i sent a mail on that last week adn again today
<kirkland> jiboumans: i touched all of my BP's ... which BP need love, and what love do they need?
<jiboumans> hallyn: 	[SERVER] [ACTION REQUIRED] Alpha3 blueprint updates
<mathiaz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/459941/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/459941/
<SpamapS> jiboumans: is it just status that needs to be updated at this time? I think a lot of the 1st work items will spawn the rest of the work items that get burned down through the cycle.
<Daviey> jiboumans, I had some uncertainly about who owns the blueprint.. is it the drafter?
<Daviey> or the assignee?
<jiboumans> All: this is outlined in the email I sent. If it's unclear, please respond with questions.
<jiboumans> Please see the above email and I'm happy to pick this up with you 1:1 if there's any unclarity after the meeting today
<hallyn> mathiaz: thx
<Daviey> jiboumans, In either case, i looked at my blueprints and they seemed current.
<jiboumans> Daviey: there's also an action to send out an email
<jiboumans> moving on
<jiboumans> we'll take a look at the actual progress on alpha3 next week when all specs are completely specified
<jiboumans> as hggdh is running a bit late today, we'll move on to the kernel team next:
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jiboumans> jjohansen: first, Bug 597387: Maverick EC2 kernel issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597387 in Ubuntu Maverick "pv-ops kernel only works in 3 or 4 zones in EC2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597387
<mathiaz> jjohansen: you guyz rock - my TP x201 is working now!
<jjohansen> I have update the Xen kernel patch and will be doing some testing today, so we should have a new kernel soon
<jjohansen> the pv-ops kernel is further behind
<zul> yay...keep it away
<jjohansen> I plan to start testing that option again once we have the Xen kernel up
<SpamapS> [ACTION] kirkland, daviey, hallyn, zul, ttx, spamaps to update their blueprints by Wednesday EOB
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland, daviey, hallyn, zul, ttx, spamaps to update their blueprints by Wednesday EOB
<jjohansen> any other Qs?
<zul> nope
<mathiaz> jjohansen: great work on bug 554569
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554569 in linux (Ubuntu) "[lucid] Blank screen with KMS on Thinkpad X201 with Arrandale (i915)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554569
<mathiaz> jjohansen: (but it's not server related :) )
<mathiaz> jjohansen: would this rolled out to lucid as an SRU?
<jjohansen> ubottu: have you tried the latest kernels, there have been some updates to maverick that fix that for many people
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jjohansen> hey :)
<jiboumans> ubottu++ ;)
<mathiaz> jjohansen: ok - I'm still running lucid
<mathiaz> jjohansen: anyway - that's outside of this meeting
<mathiaz> I've got nothing else for the kernel team
<jiboumans> jjohansen: Bug 576066: ums-cypress.ko missing from server installer
<jjohansen> mathiaz: okay, yeah lucid is problematic as its a rather large patchset
<SpamapS> so were we revisiting the cypress bug in this section?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576066 in linux (Ubuntu) "ums_cypress missing from lucid server cd" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576066
<netshine> the meeting is more two hours, right?
<jjohansen> jiboumans: right, discussed earlier
<MichealH> netshine: in 1:30 hours: EMEA meeting
<hallyn> jjohansen: and the apparmor permission denied bug?
<netshine> exactly, thanks
<jiboumans> jjohansen: oh, i must have missed that in scrollback
<netshine> MichealH: :)
<jjohansen> its just a matter of clearing up some questions, a Lucid update is a few weeks a way
<MichealH> netshine: Or visit http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<jjohansen> hallyn: which permission denied bug?
<hallyn> bug 599450
<jiboumans> jjohansen: last one then ;) atop kernel patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<jiboumans> I saw your email going out; did you get any useful feedback?
<SpamapS> [ACTION] (carryover) jjohansen to appropriately prioritze bug 576066
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (carryover) jjohansen to appropriately prioritze bug 576066
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576066 in linux (Ubuntu) "ums_cypress missing from lucid server cd" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576066
<hallyn> jjohansen: just wondering if you know the cause already (or if it's worth my digging into)
<jjohansen> jiboumans: atop, just needs discussion.  As it currently stands the kernel team is relucant to carry it, and is looking for use cases/ why atop is so much better than other solutions
<jiboumans> jjohansen: understood. I'd hate for a patch to be unmaintained upstream of course
<jjohansen> hallyn: yep, I know the cause, and need to discuss it on apparmor dev
<hallyn> ok thanks
<jjohansen> jiboumans: I received a reply from the author on the weekend and he might try pushing it upstream again in the fall
<jjohansen> he is busy this summer it seems
<jjohansen> I am composing a reply
<jiboumans> jjohansen: thanks for chasing it either way
<jiboumans> let's revisit again next week
<jiboumans> jjohansen++ thanks
<jjohansen> yes
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<sommer> nadda new from me
<SpamapS> oops
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<jiboumans> that's an easy topic then :)
<SpamapS> sommer: I had a user confused by the CUPS section of the server guide this morning in #ubuntu-server
<jiboumans> any questions for mr sommer?
<SpamapS> sommer: should I send him to a particular page to report that as a "bug" ?
<ttx> o/
<sommer> SpamapS: if he files it against ubuntu-docs that should be fine
 * ttx just arrived
<MichealH> ttx: o/
<SpamapS> sommer: ubuntu-docs, got it. Thx.
<sommer> welcome :-)
 * SpamapS feels a disturbance in the force suddenly
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: new process (zul)
<zul> so I sent out the email on monday I havent gotten any nominations so far this week
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: new process (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: new process (zul)
<jiboumans> zul: as in yesterday?
<zul> people have until friday to nominate but looking at the bugs there wasnt any good ones to nominate
<zul> jiboumans: yes as in yesterday
<zul> and ill be doing some SRU gardening on friday as well to go through really old SRU requests to see if they are still relevant
<mathiaz> zul: is there a link where the SRU tracker page is updated on a regular basis?
<jiboumans> zul: so a reminder in the notes is probably the best we can do right now?
<jiboumans> mathiaz: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/sru-tracker-bugs.html i believe
<zul> mathiaz: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/sru-tracker-bugs.html
<zul> jiboumans: probably
<jiboumans> zul: ok, i'll make a point to highlight it in the notes
<jiboumans> hggdh: are you around?
<jiboumans> idle time suggests not
<mathiaz> zul: how often is the page refreshed?
<zul> mathiaz: every night
<jiboumans> we'll make sure to document any questions though so hggdh can address them later
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jiboumans> any questsion for hggdh ?
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jiboumans> going once...
<jiboumans> going twice..
<jiboumans> alright then, moving on:
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> how is everyone doing?
<SpamapS> stupdendous over here
<Daviey> Tired here :)
<jiboumans> Regarding the alpha3 blueprints; please take a look at the mail. I'll schedule an open call tomorrow morning PST for any questions. Email also works if there's anything unclear. Thanks :)
<Daviey> jiboumans, to list or direct?
<jiboumans> fog's lifted, seeing the sun again :)
<jiboumans> Daviey: feel free to ask direct
<Daviey> ok, thanks
<zul> jiboumans: i wont be there btw
<SpamapS> I'm a little unclear on the seed to main process
<SpamapS> Is that just something that I need to have sponsored?
<jiboumans> zul: no problem, it's only if you ahve questions. feel free to send those over email, irc or any other way
<mathiaz> SpamapS: thanks - I've just learned a new word today!
<mathiaz> SpamapS: stupdendous
<mathiaz> SpamapS: yes
<mathiaz> SpamapS: seeds are bzr branches
<mathiaz> SpamapS: so you can branch them and then submit a merge proposal through LP
<SpamapS> Ah ok so branch, merge request, etc?
<SpamapS> mathiaz: well then I may have something for you on Thursday. :)
<SpamapS> jiboumans: are we ready to talk about rubygems yet?
<mathiaz> SpamapS: great
<jiboumans> SpamapS: i think some preparation is required there
<zul> SpamapS: gah?
<Daviey> Is this something that would be better on ubuntu-server ML?
<SpamapS> jiboumans: agreed... I'd like it to be an action point on somebody's radar .. so many angry users.. ;)
<SpamapS> Daviey: probably.
<jiboumans> [ACTION] SpamapS to prepare suggestion around improving rubygems
<jiboumans> spamaps: well volunteered
<mathiaz> zul: where is the SRU tracker code?
<SpamapS> [ACTION] SpamapS to prepare suggestion around improving rubygems
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS to prepare suggestion around improving rubygems
<zul> launchpad.net/server-sru-tracker
<mathiaz> zul: great - thanks
 * SpamapS has always thought his neck sticks out a bit too much. ;)
<jiboumans> any other topics?
<hallyn> zul: iiuc i need to nominate bug 588293 for sru
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588293 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Lucid) "iovec array memory leak" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588293
<mathiaz> SpamapS: debian bug 403407
<ubottu> Debian bug 403407 in libgems-ruby "rubygems: gems are installed in /var/lib/gems/X.Y/bin, which is not in $PATH" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/403407
<mathiaz> SpamapS: ^^ this is your starting point :)
<SpamapS> mathiaz: cool thanks.
<zul> hallyn: please send an email to ubuntu server ml
<hallyn> zul: kthx
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<jiboumans> Tuesday 2010-07-13 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
 * ttx puts his head in the sand to avoid seeing rubygems
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Tuesday 2010-07-13 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<jiboumans> and that's all she wrote
<jiboumans> thanks all for attending!
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:41.
<Daviey> ttx, just alias rake for apt-get :)
<hallyn> (doh, nm, i wasn't thinking straight)
<zul> heh evil...but it might just work ;)
<hggdh> I am back
<hggdh> oh
<hggdh> meeting done
<hggdh> :-(
 * MichealH laughs at hggdh 
<MichealH> Hey Sensiva
<Sensiva> Hey MichealH
<MichealH> You here for the meeting?7
<Sensiva> Sort of :D
<Sensiva> errrm the ubuntu membership meeting I mean
<MichealH> Yup :D
<MichealH> I am \o/
<MichealH> Hey Agafonov
<zkriesse> Sensiva: and you are?
<czajkowski> 9 mins to go folks
<Agafonov> MichealH: listening...
<netshine> really? :-0
<MichealH> czajkowski: Its at 9BST is'nt it?
<netshine> i think i have more hour :-0
<Sensiva> zkriesse I am here just to attend the meeting, but I didn't apply for a membership yet
<netshine> nvm :|
<MichealH> czajkowski: We have 1:08 left
<czajkowski> aye
<MichealH> 1 hour?
<netshine> yep :-0
<czajkowski> yes 1 hr 8 mins
<zkriesse> the meeting will start at 20:00 UTC
 * MichealH laughs at czajkowski 's fail
<czajkowski> MichealH: keep laughing I'll see you back in an hour for the meeting.
<MichealH> Hey airurando
<czajkowski> airurando: aloha
<Agafonov> I think someone should force ubuntu events to use human understandable time zones :)
<airurando> Hello MichealH and czajkowski
<Sensiva> timeanddate.com made it easy
<zkriesse> Agafonov: eh he
<zkriesse> http://www.timeanddate.com/
<czajkowski> airurando: one of these days I'll see your application on the membership agenda page :)
<Agafonov> or - add UTC calculator to ubottu...
<Agafonov> !time
<ubottu> Information about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP)
<zkriesse> Agafonov: type date -u in your terminal
<zkriesse> Agafonov: it'll tell you what time it is in UTC
<Agafonov> zkriesse: I know what time is on my computer, It must be clearly seen here
<MichealH> I just minus 1 hr form my system clock :)
<Agafonov> !utc
<MichealH> !time utc
<MichealH> Ahhh I fail
 * Agafonov searching ubottu author...
<MichealH> Dey Ddorda
<MichealH> *Hey
<Ddorda> MichealH: hey there :)
<MichealH> czajkowski: If i remember I didnt make it cos of the Wiki... I HOPE IT WORKS TODAY
<MichealH> BAD WIKI :D
<Ddorda> i didn't know i have friends here, maybe i should come here more often :D
<czajkowski> Ddorda: hey!!
<MichealH> Oh Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Ddorda> czajkowski: hey
<MichealH> ;)
<Ddorda> i came cause netshine won't stop to push me in here
<Ddorda> :D
<MichealH> bad netshine :D
<netshine> yeah.. it was like "ddorda please please please"
<Ddorda> netshine: he even asked from czajkowski to call me
<netshine> and he was like : "yeah... why not, i guess"
<netshine> :)
<Ddorda> netshine: i already told you, if you want me to be your friend, i take only paypal donates.
<netshine> paypal.com/ddorda "Pay Now"
<Ddorda> netshine: it's more like "i love you! now pay"
<Ddorda> MichealH: you're invited too
<MichealH> netshine: Not as evil as me I am begging on my knees for vbrummond to join. Basically because he thinks I deserve it more than anyone he knows :)
<MichealH> Hey mpoirier
 * MichealH makes notes
<Ddorda> MichealH: and i thought i was special! :(
<MichealH> READY FOR ACTION
<scott_ev> ayup
<MichealH> popey, czajkowski others 10 mins :D
<MichealH> Hey rs3 moshe742
<moshe742> hey to you too:)
<MichealH> :)
<MichealH> Here for the meeting?
<Seveas> MichealH, could you please try not disrupting the meeting this time?
<moshe742> the meeting is in a few minutes, right?
<MichealH> Yup I wont Seveas
<rs3> good afternoon
<MichealH> moshe742: 4 mins
<zkriesse> MichealH: please just sit still..hush
<MichealH> rs3: Good afternoon to you too :P
 * MichealH stays quiet
<zkriesse> Thank you
<andrejz> netherlands just scored if anyone wants to know
<Seveas> popey, czajkowski, highvoltage, ogra, ogra_cmpc, stgraber, drubin: prod
 * ogra_cmpc wonders if Seveas is watching 
<czajkowski> Seveas: aloha
<czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: howdy doody
<Seveas> ogra_cmpc, no
<ogra_cmpc> heay
<highvoltage> I'm here, stgraber will be here in just a minute
 * drubin is here
<Seveas> though I can hear vuvuzelas (live almost nextdoor to a few cafes)
 * drubin lives in ZA
<h00k> Seveas: not you again.
<czajkowski> no more annoying bees noise soon
 * drubin offers cookies to those waiting
 * MichealH takes drubin 's cookies :P
<slofgren_> slofgren_: takes a cookie
 * scott_ev loves cokies
<popey> lo
<MichealH> My iPod ^^
<MichealH> heh I am well organised
<Seveas> MichealH, please stay quiet until it is your turn.
<scott_ev> drubin: milk?
<MichealH> Seveas: Yup
<Seveas> all: we're waiting a few minutes for stgraber to arrive
<drubin> scott_ev: nope ;-p ok back on topic.
 * stgraber waves
<drubin> great timing. nice stgraber
<Seveas> candidates: please prepare a short (3 line max) introduction to paste when it is your turn
<highvoltage> Seveas: it's barely been a minute! (if ntp is to be believed)
<Seveas> highvoltage, ntp is a lie :P
<drubin> The spoon is a lie! not the cookie
<Seveas> ok, let's get started!
<moshe742> what should we tell in the short introduction?
<ogra_cmpc> you should introduce yourself
<Seveas> andrejz, you're up first, please introduce yourself
<ogra_cmpc> and what you have done to contribute
<andrejz> ok
<andrejz> hello! my name is andrej and i do most of my activities
<andrejz> in the translation field. I am a member of gnome translation group
<czajkowski> we're going through the list in order of names added https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<andrejz> and recently became a coordinator of laucnhpad slovenian translators
<andrejz> more info can be found on wiki here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrejZnidarsic or ask
<Seveas> I'm impressed with the amount of work, both upstream and in Ubuntu
<andrejz> well, i have had a lot of time this year ;)
<h00k> I concur, excellent work thus far.
<andrejz> also in wiki you can find a testimonial from gnome translator group coordinator
<czajkowski> andrejz: how do you plan on Establishing a system of quality control with the  Slovenian translators group ?
 * ogra_cmpc is impressed as well
<andrejz> the points bellow describe what has been already done
 * popey hugs google chrome translate when clicking links to Slovenian sites
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<czajkowski> andrejz: did you encounter any problems?
<andrejz> so basically informing both through mailing list (also adding people to the mailing list)
<highvoltage> andrejz: you should poke ubuntu-news now and again to share the progress, we should let the larger community know of the work you're doing
<Seveas> andrejz, I'm curious, why a jabber chatroom and not irc?
<andrejz> also we created a chat group, where people can ask
<czajkowski> andrejz: nice idea
<andrejz> well, jabber is nice beacause it logs all the conversations
<ogra_cmpc> irc does too :)
<andrejz> so if anyone is offline, they can catch up everything once they log in
<Seveas> ogra_cmpc, not with replay, unless everyone uses a bouncer :)
<Seveas> I'm +1
<popey> nice idea
<highvoltage> I'm just going to cut to the chase and say +1
<andrejz> and it's easy to use
<ogra_cmpc> totally +1
<andrejz> you just add one more contact
<drubin> I am a +1
<h00k> +1
<popey> I like that I'm seeing Slovenian translations of announcements we put out, thats always nice to see..
<stgraber> +1 too
<Seveas> h00k, only board members vote.
<andrejz> you don't need to login anywhere just your chat account
<czajkowski> +1 also
<h00k> Seveas: I forget...
<ogra_cmpc> hey, btw, didntt czajkowski ask to use mootbot ?
<popey> oops
<popey> next time :)
<czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: I did
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<popey> +1
<popey> thats a full house I believe
<Seveas> I think so too, but have trouble counting
<ogra_cmpc> yup
<popey> congratulations andrejz
<Seveas> welcome aboard!
<popey> Seveas: shall I?
<czajkowski> shall we use MootBot for the rest?
<andrejz> thank you
<ogra_cmpc> congrats
<highvoltage> congratulations and welcome andrejz
<czajkowski> andrejz: well done
<Seveas> czajkowski, if you know how to drive it, go ahead :)
<andrejz> thanks for the welcome
<thelinuxer> congratulations andrejz
<czajkowski> #starmeeting
<h00k> :) congrats
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:10. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> [topic] Jens Maucher
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jens Maucher
<czajkowski> defcon: care to tell us about yourself
<defcon> hello. my name is jens.
<defcon> i'm most active in translations and local activities
<defcon> for more informations you can have a look on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/JensMaucher
<highvoltage> 1886 answer tracker points, not bad!
<defcon> feel free to ask if you want to know something :)
<czajkowski> defcon: can you tell me about the ubuntu-events-de and what it's about ?
<defcon> czajkowski, i'm new in the ubuntu-events-de group, but i want to be part of some local events in my neighborhod
<czajkowski> defcon: are you involve in your LoCo ?
<highvoltage> defcon: what activities do you do as part of the ubuntu-hams group?
<defcon> highvoltage, well, i'm trying hamdradio software and build software for hams
<h00k> defcon: I also have taken a liking to Diving, I should contact you sometime about my dive-logging software I'm writing up.
<czajkowski> defcon: is there anyone where from your team to cheer you on ?
<defcon> czajkowski, i hope so :-) julius bloch
<defcon> i hope i understood you question
<Seveas> A testimonial from julius would help
<Seveas> Because while the work looks good, there are no testimonials at all from others on your wikipage. Especially for local offline work such as events, testimonials and reports are very important
<ogra_cmpc> or anyone else from the german team
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: like you? :)
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, i must admit i'm not very active in the german community
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on Jens Maucher / defcon application.  Only Board members vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on Jens Maucher / defcon application.  Only Board members vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<defcon> i can ask him, but 2 days ago he wrote in the mailinglist that he very busy (famliy and work) that there is no time in next
<czajkowski> -1
<Seveas> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Seveas. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<czajkowski> insufficent information on the wiki sorry.
<ogra_cmpc> 0
<Seveas> Due to reasons given above
<ogra_cmpc> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_cmpc. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<popey> -1
<highvoltage> +0 [ great work so far, but I'd like to see some testimonials and more solid documentation ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2
<MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
<popey> ditto
<drubin> -0
<drubin> missing info.
<Seveas> drubin, I'm afraid -0 doesn't work
<drubin> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 0 for, 3 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -3
<czajkowski> #endvote
<drubin> Seveas: Thanks.
<czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: whats the end vote command
<Seveas> [endvote]
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 3 against. 3 abstained. Total: -3
<drubin> defcon: Your work looks great but would be good to hear from others.
<stgraber> +0
<czajkowski> [topic] Netanel Shine / netshine
<MootBot> New Topic:  Netanel Shine / netshine
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, some more testimonials
<Seveas> netshine, are you there?
<netshine> sure.
<czajkowski> netshine: can you tell us about yourself please
<stgraber> czajkowski: you ended that vote a bit too early ;)
<netshine> just waiting :)
<czajkowski> stgraber: sorry!
<netshine> ok, my name is netanel shine. an active user in the israeli ubuntu loco
<highvoltage> defcon: We'd all like to see you become a member, it would be great if you could apply again in the future with more testimonials and more details of the work that you've been doing
<netshine> you can see my contributes and activites in my wiki page
<netshine> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/netshine)
<defcon> highvoltage, ok
<netshine> recently uploaded gnome-paint project to launchpad..
<Seveas> netshine, what kind of things does hamakor do? And how do you divide your time between hamakor and ubuntu?
<netshine> Hamakor is an foundation
<netshine> so its side by side next to the israeli loco
<highvoltage> Hamakor has a Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamakor
<popey> anyone here to cheer for netshine ?
<netshine> Hamakor gonna set up an big event next mounth
<czajkowski> Ddorda: ?
<Ddorda> czajkowski: ?
<Seveas> netshine, what kind of event and what will you be doing there?
<highvoltage> netshine: where are you most active directly in Ubuntu?
<netshine> highvoltage: the israeli loco
<netshine> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Penguin
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Penguin
<netshine> thats the event.
<drubin> Ddorda: Care to cheer on for netshine
<highvoltage> netshine: what type of activities do you do in your loco team?
<netshine> mainly helps in the irc channel,,
<Ddorda> netshine is great guy, a nice man, and you can always see him on #ubuntu-il channel
<netshine> and helping where i can.
<Seveas> Ddorda, do you think we should make him an Ubuntu member?
<Ddorda> Seveas: i guess so, he is one of the most seen users in our LoCo
<netshine> also, helping to translating the meetings (irc loco meetings)
<highvoltage> Ddorda: we typically don't give people membership for just being users though ;)
<moshe742> he is willing to help any one any time too
<highvoltage> any further questions?
<czajkowski> moshe742: how do you think netshine helps your team ?
<Ddorda> highvoltage: well, he helps a lot, he gives a lot of support and takes part in any project he can
<Ddorda> as much as i see it
<netshine> lateely more work is created around for me and a i aliitle bit less available.. but when i can, i help
<drubin> netshine: How do you bring ubuntu into August Penguin? and Hamakor
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Netanel Shine/ netshine application. Only board members vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Netanel Shine/ netshine application. Only board members vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Seveas> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Seveas. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +1 [ active contributor within loco team ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<moshe742> he is helping and wants the best for the loco
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Seveas> highvoltage, ooooh, it does do comments!
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Seveas> one more vote
<popey> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<highvoltage> Seveas: yeah I can't imagine voting without it!
<Seveas> ok, that makes 7
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
<czajkowski> Seveas: Thank you :p
<popey> congratulations netshine
<Seveas> welcome aboard netshine!
<ogra_cmpc> congrats netshine
<Ddorda> god i miss the old days when bots didn't spam here on votes :D
<czajkowski> netshine: well done
<highvoltage> congratulations netshine and welcome
<moshe742> congrats netshine:)
<netshine> thank you all (including my local group)
<ogra_cmpc> Ddorda, easier to count :)
<czajkowski> ok moving on
<czajkowski> [topic] RaphaÃ«l Hertzog / buxy
<MootBot> New Topic:  RaphaÃ«l Hertzog / buxy
<buxy> Hi, I'm RaphaÃ«l Hertzog, I have been involved in Debian since 1998 where I contributed lots of stuff. Nowadays I concentrate on dpkg/dpkg-dev and general (QA) infrastructure. My main interest here is in helping Ubuntu and Debian to better cooperate. I hope to contribute towards this with better documentation/communication and with articles sent to both Planet Ubuntu and Planet Debian.
<ogra_cmpc> buxy !
<czajkowski> buxy: aloha
<Seveas> Instant +1, serious debian/ubuntu work.
<buxy> More on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaphaelHertzog and on http://RaphaelHertzog.com
<buxy> hi everybody
<highvoltage> +1 [ outstanding work in Utnubu, bug fixes in Ubuntu and general awesome work in Debian that overflows in Ubuntu ]
<ogra_cmpc> +1 without hearing anything
<stgraber> +1
<Seveas> czajkowski, you might want to start the vote :)
<ogra_cmpc> i know buxy from early #ubuntu-motu days
<highvoltage> I've read his blog before blogs even existed
<czajkowski> buxy: can you just tell me how else you'd like to help Ubuntu.
<buxy> glad to help you in getting back to schedule that was slippin a bit with 14 applications :)
<czajkowski> buxy: you're future goals are just a bit sparse
<buxy> czajkowski: like I said in the short paste, my short term goals are around better communication between both projects in particular for newcomers that join in both sides
<popey> worth noting that buxy got a testimonial from sabdfl via email
<highvoltage> czajkowski: he's part of the Utnubu revival, Utnubu is Ubuntu spellt backwards, it's the collaboration layer between debian and ubuntu, that's pretty important imho :)
<czajkowski> highvoltage: aye I'm aware of it
<czajkowski> just wanted to hear from buxy
<buxy> I don't plan to do much technical work currently that's why I came here and not to DMB
<zkriesse_> scott_ev: Ya still here?
<scott_ev> yes
<zkriesse_> Cool
<Seveas> zkriesse_, there's a meeting in progress. Please don't interrupt.
<buxy> my technical work will start in Debian and I'm glad I have responsive ubuntu maintainers for my packages currently so I don't need to dive myself :)
<buxy> (thanks to Kamion mainly for dpkg)
<czajkowski> buxy: cool
<ogra_cmpc> buxy, he is cjwatson around here ;)
<czajkowski> any other comments folks ?
<MichealH> Dont think so
 * ajmitch thinks he'd be a great addition as a member
<buxy> ogra_cmpc: right, in OFTC too lately, I'm just not used to it :)
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on RaphaÃ«l Hertzog / buxy application.  Only board members vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on RaphaÃ«l Hertzog / buxy application.  Only board members vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Seveas> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Seveas. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<popey> +1
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<ajmitch> more debian people is a good thing :)
<highvoltage> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<popey> czajkowski: woah
<czajkowski> buxy: welcome :)
<Seveas> missed one
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<Seveas> there's 7 of us :)
<czajkowski> bah
<buxy> thank you all
<Seveas> anyway, glad to have you aboard buxy
<highvoltage> buxy: welcome officially to the ubuntu family!
<ogra_cmpc> congrats buxy
<h00k> Congrats!
<drubin> blah I also voted +1
<MichealH> vitium: Just in time !!!
<Seveas> drubin, be faster than czajkowski next time :)
<MichealH> 2 secs though
<drubin> I had less then a minute!
<czajkowski> ok moving on
<zkriesse_> Congrats buxy welcome to the family
<czajkowski> [topic] Micheal Harker / MichealH
<MootBot> New Topic:  Micheal Harker / MichealH
<MichealH> Hi, I am MichealH, Admin of the Ubuntu Youth Project and a Ubuntu Forums contributor. I am here tonight/this afternoon to apply for a membership because of my contributions to the Ubuntu Community. Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Micheal_Harker (Links fixed) Thanks!
<highvoltage> MichealH: I've never heard of the Ubuntu Youth Project before, what does it do?
 * ogra_cmpc neither
<MichealH> It basically is a group of youths who use Ubuntu who help in the main categoies and groups of Ubuntu
<MichealH> They contribute to the community over Forums, IRC ect.
<vitium> It also encourages new young members & helps them when learning Ubuntu related stuff
<MichealH> I have the forum links fixed too
<Seveas> You're doing the youth team since four days and list almost no other contributions. Also no testimonials at all.
<highvoltage> -1 [ insufficient information on application of significant sustained contribution ]
<Seveas> That's seriously lacking and I don't think I can do a positive vote.
<MichealH> Seveas: I do have a atestimonial and vitium here is supporting me
<Seveas> vitium, good. Why do you think MichealH should be an Ubuntu member?
<MichealH> There is a forum tutorial and I make Ubuzine!
<highvoltage> What is Ubunzine? I've never heard of it before, how does it relate to UWN and why does it need to be seperate?
<MichealH> highvoltage: It is like Full Circle Magazine but for begineers and the suh
 * ogra_cmpc was wondering that too, especially since UWN always looks for contributors
<MichealH> *such
<ajmitch> from what I can see, it was first out a week ago?
<czajkowski> MichealH: why not talk to the UWN folks
<Ddorda> i g2g, just want to mention that alonswartz deserves to get in! sorry for disturbing. bye
<MichealH> ajmitch: No 4 weeks ago
<vitium> Seveas He has only been in the community for a few weeks and already has taken over the management on the previously dead Ubuntu Youth community and has already kick started a project.
<MichealH> czajkowski: UWN folks?
<czajkowski> MichealH: Ubuntu weekly news
<MichealH> Ahhh...
<MichealH> I am also helping in #ubuntu at the moment
<Seveas> vitium, Ubuntu membership is a recognition of a sustained, significant contribution. What you say fails at least sustained. And I'm unsure about significant as well.
<MichealH> as I usually do when I can
<MichealH> Seveas: I acctually have been Ubuntu'in for 4 years now!
<czajkowski> MichealH: I do appreciate your enthuasim, I think it'd be wise for you to get to know some of the groups that are already doing some of the work you've shown an interest in
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Micheal Harker / MichealH applicaton.  Only board members vote.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Micheal Harker / MichealH applicaton.  Only board members vote..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> -1 [ insufficient information on application of significant sustained contribution ]
<MootBot> -1 received from highvoltage. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<Seveas> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Seveas. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<drubin> -1 [n]
<MootBot> -1 received from drubin. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<ogra_cmpc> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from ogra_cmpc. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<czajkowski> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5
<stgraber> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from stgraber. 0 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6
<popey> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 7 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -7
<MichealH> Oh well :(
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 7 against. 0 abstained. Total: -7
<popey> !membership | MichealH
<ubottu> MichealH: Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<popey> that page does detail what we look for
<popey> and I think the 'sustained and significant' is the bit you fall down on
<MichealH> I know but I still do try and contribute when I acam
<popey> enthusiasm and motivation is clearly high
<MichealH> *can
<popey> keep going though!
<MichealH> Ok
<ogra_cmpc> MichealH, you should definately come back but put some time under your belt thats a bit better documented
<czajkowski> [topic] Roy Jamison / xteejx
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roy Jamison / xteejx
<MichealH> Ohh almost forgot I am also redesigning or helping to redesigh Ubuntu UK websit
<MichealH> *website
<czajkowski> MichealH: we can talk after meeting we're moving on
<highvoltage> over 7000!
<Seveas> xteejx seems not to be here
<highvoltage> (sorry that's a way too -in-joke for here)
<czajkowski> [topic] Nils-Christoph Fiedler
<MootBot> New Topic:  Nils-Christoph Fiedler
<nils1> hi!
<nils1> hi, my name is nils! i am a low german translator and coordinate several translation teams like ubuntu-l10n-nds, lp-l10n-nds, nds on tp and gnome upstream. and i do all that since spring/summer 2009.
<nils1> here is my personal wiki on ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nils-ChristophFiedler
<Seveas> there's nothing low about translation work
<nils1> what do you mean?
<czajkowski> Seveas: it's a form of the language I think
<popey> he is attempting humour
<czajkowski> from what I've read
<popey> and failing
<nils1> right
<nils1> i already applied for membership in march this year, but you told me, that i shall come back when ive contributed about half a year in whole or so, because there would be a guideline just to give membership to those people. i missed one month last time. so now its 4 month later and here i am again! :-)
<popey> welcome back!
<popey> what have you done in the 4 months since then? :)
<Seveas> no, i was not attempting humour
<Seveas> just misunderstanding
<ogra_cmpc> Seveas, niederdeutsch
<highvoltage> nils1: you should have linked to https://launchpad.net/~xteejx/+related-software - it showcases some of your bug work quite nicely
<ogra_cmpc> Seveas, in case your german is good enough :)
<Seveas> yeah, reading wikipage now, it's becoming clearer :)
<Seveas> highvoltage, nils1 != xteejx
<nils1> sorry, must have been a key combination.. just loggod off
<Seveas> highvoltage, https://launchpad.net/~ncfiedler
<ogra_cmpc> Seveas, deatils :P
<drubin> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ncfiedler/+karma
<Seveas> nils1, how many other translators work on low german in Ubuntu?
<nils1> at the time i guess no other one
<nils1> there are some on the team
<nils1> but most of them are active in standard german most of the time
<drubin> Can some one explain how Low German is different from normal German? ;-p
<Seveas> have you tried to contact them and ask why they are not active?
<popey> drubin: the wiki page explains ti
<popey> *it
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Nils-Christoph Fiedler / nils1 . Board members only
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Nils-Christoph Fiedler / nils1 . Board members only.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nils1> i did but in the last weeks my examination at university startet so i had not much time ..
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> I am impressed that you've come back after continuing to work hard, and working in a small team translating a "lesser" language must be tough..
<highvoltage> +1 [ was +0.5'ing but bowing under peer pressure ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Seveas> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Seveas. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<popey> wait for it... czajkowski
<popey> :)
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<popey> bam!
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<czajkowski> popey: :p
<popey> congratulations nils1 !
<drubin> congrats
<nils1> hej, thank you!
<Seveas> welcome aboard nils1 and thanks for retrying!
<highvoltage> nils1: congratulations ans welcome!
<ogra_cmpc> glueckwunsch nils1
<nils1> hihi, danke!
<czajkowski> [topic] Majd Almontaser  ttmt
<MootBot> New Topic:  Majd Almontaser  ttmt
<Seveas> MIA, next!
<czajkowski> hmm not present
<czajkowski> [topic] Steffan Wood  steffan
<MootBot> New Topic:  Steffan Wood  steffan
<czajkowski> steffan: aloha!
<steffan> Hi, I'm Steffan! My contributions to Ubuntu have been support in the IRC channels over the past two years, answering questions on Launchpad and distributing over 200 Ubuntu Live CDs to Internet cafes, libraries and educational facilities that don't have the required funding to purchase closed-source OSs/software, and filing the occasional bug report along the way.
<highvoltage> steffan: how long have you been providing support on #ubuntu?
<steffan> From now on, I plan on getting involved in Ubuntu packagaing and become a MOTU, and also to carry on with my current contributions but incrase the scale of Ubuntu distribution in my community. My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WoodSteffan.
<czajkowski> steffan: are there any other future goals you;d like to see in the community/ubuntu/irc ?
<steffan> highvoltage: I started around two years ago, as I have learnt more I have been able to provide more support so since around Spring 09 I have been providing support for about 4/5 hours per day.
<ogra_cmpc> nice set of testimonials
<Seveas> very nice set
<popey> wow, yeah
<czajkowski> aye testimonials ++
<h00k> I'm here on behaf of steffan, I've seen him around in #ubuntu giving support, I believe he is a good candidate for an Ubuntu Membership
<popey> high praise
<Seveas> I know almost all of the people on that list
 * ogra_cmpc likes the last one most 
<ogra_cmpc> (being former lead of edubuntu)
<steffan> czajkowski: Hi, I think the layout of Ubuntu/IRC is perfect for the time being, one thing I did have in mind (and I'm not sure if this is the right place to mention it) is the IRC Council creating #ubuntu-ipv6 (for obvious reasons).
<bazhang> I'm here as well, steffan is often around giving very helpful answers on #ubuntu
<drubin> woohoo nice
<highvoltage> I'm ready to vote
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Steffan Wood  steffan application.  ONly board members vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Steffan Wood  steffan application.  ONly board members vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +1 [ sustained contributions, good testimonials from other Ubuntu members, showing intent to move up further ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<czajkowski> steffan: thanks for answering
<Seveas> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Seveas. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<czajkowski> waits...
<popey> awesome work, I admire anyone who can withstand the onslaught of #ubuntu!
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<popey> \o/
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<czajkowski> stgraber: you're killing me dude! :)
<drubin> steffan: That last testimonial is what it is all about!
<popey> congratulations steffan !
<steffan> popey, Seveas, ogra_cmpc: Thank you about the testimonials, I appreiciate it and you are lucky to have those great guys onboard!
<h00k> Congrats, steffan!
<drubin> congratulations!
<LjL> congratulations steffan
<czajkowski> [topic] Gerfried Fuchs /  Rhonda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Gerfried Fuchs /  Rhonda
<bazhang> nicely done steffan well deserved
<steffan> Cheers all!
<czajkowski> Rhonda: aloha there
<highvoltage> This is also going to be a super-easy
<highvoltage> This is also going to be a super-easy +1 from me
<czajkowski> Rhonda: you here ?
<Seveas> wow, detailed testimonials
<highvoltage> I don't know how you can beat those endorsements
<ogra_cmpc> geez, what a wiki
<czajkowski> well we cant do anything if they're not here either...
<Seveas> would be a pity
<czajkowski> right moving on so
<IdleOne> congrats steffan
<highvoltage> I'm ready to vote
<highvoltage> oh is that a rule set in stone?
<czajkowski> highvoltage: they're not here
<Seveas> highvoltage, yes, we do like to talk to people
<czajkowski> [topic]  Alon Swartz / alonswartz
<MootBot> New Topic:   Alon Swartz / alonswartz
<alonswartz> Hey folks
<czajkowski> alonswartz: aloha there
<Seveas> especially since his wikipage says he applies for MOTU, for which he is in the wrong place
<highvoltage> ok easy one for next time then :)
<alonswartz> I'm the co-founder and one of the developers behind TurnKey Linux, an open source project developing a free virtual appliance library (based on Ubuntu).
<alonswartz> The project is a sort of LoCo for server appliances. Instead of helping introduce users to Ubuntu on a geographical basis, we help introduce users to Ubuntu by helping them quickly setup and deploy Ubuntu as a server platform.
<alonswartz> I've contributed code to ubuntu server, in the form of ec2metadata (included in cloud-init), ebsmount (recently added to universe for maverick, and on its way to main) to be included in the Ubuntu EC2 and UEC images. The Turnkey appliances are also in the process to be included in the UEC store.
<alonswartz> I actively participated in UDS-M in the server and cloud track, am active in the Israel Loco...
<ogra_cmpc> wow, you have half the server team giving you good testimonials
<moshe742> alonswartz, your name on the forum?
<ogra_cmpc> great work too
<alonswartz> I'm not active on the ubuntu forum
<moshe742> only on the irc?
<highvoltage> I'm familiar with turnkey, it brings ubuntu to many, many new users
<alonswartz> moshe742: if you are referring to the israeli loco - yes, only irc
<alonswartz> highvoltage: thanks
<drubin> testimonial from Dustin
<alonswartz> btw, Ddorda was here earlier but had to run, he said: [23:44]	<Ddorda>	i g2g, just want to mention that alonswartz deserves to get in! sorry for disturbing. bye
<moshe742> so thats why i don't know you that well
 * ogra_cmpc is happy wiht the wikipage alone and has no questions ... 
<Sensiva> Turnkey brings servers applications to many Ubuntu users in a super easy way. I am sure it will change the VPS market soon , Also I learned alot from Turnkey,
<popey> alonswartz: you've come before us for membership before, and you were turned down, what's changed since then?
<Seveas> alonswartz, were you satisfied with the way the CC handled the discussion about Turnkey Linux after last time?
<alonswartz> Liraz was mainly handling the CC discussion, not me
<highvoltage> alonswartz: do you have any plans to bring turnkey any closer to the wider ubuntu community?
<alonswartz> TurnKey has come a long way since then, the project is much more active with the ubuntu community
<popey> alonswartz: in what way?
<highvoltage> alonswartz: please tell us about it :)
<alonswartz> and so am I (see contributions)
<alonswartz> I participated actively in UDS-M
<popey> were you there?
<alonswartz> remotely
<popey> ah
<highvoltage> alonswartz: great! what did you do?
<alonswartz> I participated in lots of the server/cloud sessions
<alonswartz> 1 example was a session regarding ebsmount, a package i wrote for use in turnkey appliances
<alonswartz> I worked with smoser to add UEC support to it
<popey> I'm seeing lots more direct contribution since january, which is great to see
<alonswartz> its currently in universe, on its way to main to be included in the ec2 and uec builds
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Alon Swartz / alonswartz .  Board members only vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Alon Swartz / alonswartz .  Board members only vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> any further questions?
<alonswartz> we are also working with other server team members, to get turnkey appliances into the UEC store
<alonswartz> ec2metadata was also included in cloud-init
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Seveas> +1 [ Good to see you're more active in Ubuntu and that Turnkey keeps steaming ahead ]
<MootBot> +1 received from Seveas. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<highvoltage> +1 [ good work so far and I believe it will continue to get better ]
<alonswartz> i'm happy to go on - any specific questions
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<popey> thanks for coming back and detailing your contributions, and keep up the great work with turnkey alonswartz !
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<zkriesse> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from zkriesse. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<Seveas> zkriesse, don't vote.
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<czajkowski> zkriesse: please dont vote
<Seveas> only board members note.
<Seveas> vote*
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 8
 * highvoltage stares at MootBot 
<Seveas> welcome aboard alonswartz
<popey> congrats alonswartz
<highvoltage> alonswartz: yep, congrats and welcome
<IdleOne> congrats alonswartz
<Seveas> we have run out of time
<moshe742> congrats alonswartz
<alonswartz> thanks folks - great to be "officially" part of ubuntu
<popey> :)
<zkriesse> guys please vote on scott_ev
<zkriesse> he deserves it
<Seveas> who of the board is available for 3 more candidates?
<Seveas> I am
<popey> i am
<czajkowski> I am
 * drubin 
 * highvoltage 
<czajkowski> ok lets get moving
 * ogra_cmpc is
<czajkowski> [topic] J Scott Gwin  / scott_ev
<MootBot> New Topic:  J Scott Gwin  / scott_ev
 * fuzzyvader cheers!
 * hutchnate cheers
<czajkowski> scott_ev: aloha there!
<scott_ev> Hello, I'm Scott Gwin and I'm very pleased to be here.  Retirement came early for me 3.5 years ago at age 45 and that's right about the time someone handed me an Ubuntu CD - 6.10 Edgy I believe. I moced to Arizona 2 years ago to care for aging parents and immediately joined the LoCo:  then when our LoCo team leader johnc4510 got called upon to do bigger and better things for Ubuntu someone had to step up and moderate the weekly meeti
 * zkriesse cheers
<czajkowski> nice to see cheering folks!
<Seveas> cheerers: please also say why you're cheering for him :)
<highvoltage> scott_ev: what does the leading J stand for?
<scott_ev> that's the whole name
<fuzzyvader> Seveas: cause he's awesome
<scott_ev> mom wanted john jr and dad said no
<scott_ev> compromise
<fuzzyvader> he is the heart of our LoCo
<zkriesse> He's a great guy/friend. He is always willing to assist with anything he can and his work with us Weekly Newsies is just awesome
<zkriesse> And his LoCo work is beyond amazing
<czajkowski> scott_ev: firstly, nice wiki page!!!
<ogra_cmpc> ++
<drubin> scott_ev: Great wiki page!
<Seveas> ++++
<czajkowski> so nice to see this!
<highvoltage> yeah that's really good documentation of work done
<ogra_cmpc> and awesome testimonials too
<Seveas> yes, makes it very easy for us. I'm ready to vote :)
<czajkowski> scott_ev: so tell me how you plan on increasing your loco  to contribute?
 * highvoltage too
 * ogra_cmpc too
<drubin> scott_ev: All those install fests are they reported/recorded any where? Pics blog post and all that?
<akgraner> scott_ev also works hard to get UWN out the door each week - also willing to help and tackle what needs to be done
<zkriesse> akgraner: agreed...he does a really good job
<fuzzyvader> czajkowski: he was all about travelling over three hours to come to Havasu and do an install fest here, the LoCo is statewide and he's willing to travel
<czajkowski> fuzzyvader: good to know
<highvoltage> +1 [ great loco and community work, solid UWN contributions and good testimonials from well known ubuntu contributors and members ]
<scott_ev> drubin: there were, but I've failed at keeping it up
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on scott_ev application.  ONly board members vote PLEASE
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on scott_ev application.  ONly board members vote PLEASE.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> sorry I couldn't keep it in any longer
<highvoltage> +1 [ great loco and community work, solid UWN contributions and good testimonials from well known ubuntu contributors and members ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ogra_cmpc> seeing akgraner cheering for him would have made me +1 if i werent already :)
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +1
<Seveas> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from Seveas. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<drubin> +1 [great work]
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<popey> nice testimonials there scott_ev
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<popey> rock on!
<rs3> way to go scott!
<scott_ev> w00t
<czajkowski> scott_ev: welcome aboard!!!
<scott_ev> Thank you very much.  Hopefully this will put some new motivation into our LoCo since we've already accomplished so much.
<fuzzyvader> woot woot
<ogra_cmpc> congrats !!
<zkriesse> scott_ev: OH YEAH DUDE!
<highvoltage> scott_ev: well done
<Seveas> scott_ev, keep on rocking!
<drubin> scott_ev: It was more from the point of view that don't loose those pics/blog posts. They are nice to keep historically ;-p
<akgraner> congrats scott_ev!
<czajkowski> [topic] Moshe Nahmias / moshe742
<MootBot> New Topic:  Moshe Nahmias / moshe742
<drubin> great work!
<scott_ev> drubin, agreed
<moshe742> Hi, my name is Moshe, from the Israeli loco team. I help translate ubuntu to Hebrew and help to any one on ubuntu. I am one of the leaders for more then a year now on our loco and try to move the loco forward. I help in organizing ubuntu on the grass release parties.
<moshe742> You can see most if not all on the Wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Moshenahmias
<scott_ev> drubin: I'll make it happen from now on
<moshe742> if you have any questions you are welcome to ask
<Seveas> moshe742, on your wikipage you say "hundreds of translations", yet launchpad lists only 108 strings. What happened to the rest?
<moshe742> i thought i did more... then i will correct it, sorry
<moshe742> how can i see how many translations i did?
<Seveas> onyly 108 strings isn't too many though :)
<highvoltage> I have no further questions
<Seveas> ah, now, that's 108 karma points
<Seveas> and I have *no* idea how much strings that means
<czajkowski> moshe742: can you tell us about your involment in your team?
<moshe742> i think i did more, pretty sure about it
<zkriesse> highvoltage: after the meeting i'd like to talk to you
<Seveas> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/~moshegrey/+activity
<Seveas> 50 packages, occasional translations
<moshe742> i am one of the leaders on our loco
<moshe742> helping any one that needs it and willing to go to their homes if needed
<highvoltage> +0 [ Nice amount of forum posts, but not much other evicence of significant sustained contributions ]
<ogra_cmpc> +0
<netshine> i can say something?
<czajkowski> netshine: please do
<highvoltage> zkriesse: you're welcome to, I'll need to leave directly after the meeting but feel free to ping me in an hour or so
<zkriesse> highvoltage: roger
<netshine> i think moshe is one of the best users in our community
<czajkowski> moshe742: are there others from your team here to cheer you on ??
<moshe742> i am helping to organize release parties
<netshine> you should consider it again to accept him
<moshe742> netshine,
<netshine> his willing to help any time he can.
<netshine> he doing he`s best.
<moshe742> and Ddorda if he is still here
<drubin> +1 [ddorda's testimonal, very active in forms (even if not support), active bassed on other ubuntu.il members]
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Moshe Nahmias / moshe742  Application.  BOARD MEMBERS ONLY
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Moshe Nahmias / moshe742  Application.  BOARD MEMBERS ONLY.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<drubin> +1 [ddorda's testimonal, very active in forms (even if not support), active bassed on other ubuntu.il members]
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
 * ogra_cmpc changed his mind based on cheering
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Seveas> +0 [ Contributions seem very good, but documentation of them should have been done better ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from Seveas. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
 * highvoltage remains +0
<drubin> highvoltage: vote
<highvoltage> +0
<Seveas> highvoltage, then please vote again
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
 * highvoltage glares at MootBot 
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 4
<czajkowski> moshe742: welcome
<ogra_cmpc> congrats
<czajkowski> highvoltage: what are you glaring at the poor bot for
<Seveas> that's good enough :) Welcome aboard moshe742!
<czajkowski> [topic] Ahmed Toulan  / thelinuxer
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ahmed Toulan  / thelinuxer
<thelinuxer> hi guys
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: aloha thanks for waiting
<moshe742> thanks, and if i need to do anything better i want to have your input:)
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: np :)
<Seveas> moshe742, just keep on making Ubuntu bigger in Israel :)
<thelinuxer> i wanted to wait :D
<thelinuxer> My name is Ahmed Toulan. I am one of the official Loco contacts in ubuntu-eg group. The Egyptian LoCo team.
<thelinuxer> I joined the group in 2007 but the owner disappeared and nothing much was done.
<thelinuxer> there was no moderation for the launchpad group or the mailing list. No one was able to join the group.
<moshe742> np, thanks again:)
<thelinuxer> I stepped forward for moderator role, with my colleague Mohamed Zaian(Extend), both on the mailing list and the launchpad group.
<thelinuxer> We tried (the whole team) to arrange a release party a couple of times,  but we didn't succeed in finding a good venue.
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: that;'s a lot testimonials
<highvoltage> nice amount of testimonials but I don't know any of the people who made them, I assume they're all part of the loco team
<ogra_cmpc> ++
<Seveas> That's a good amount of testimonials, but there have recently been problems in the egypt loco team. How is the team doing these days?
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: i have good friends
<mgamal> highvoltage: yes we are
<thelinuxer> it wasn't a problem with the team
<thelinuxer> a member tried to steal our work
<thelinuxer> and that was not acceptable
<Seveas> who was that?
<IdleOne> steal how?
<thelinuxer> so he was banned from the team
<highvoltage> thelinuxer: one of your goals for 2010 is arranging classes for students
<thelinuxer> Sam Azab(HardDisk)
<czajkowski> nice to see photos from events, looked lke a good release part https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Events
<highvoltage> thelinuxer: how is that going (seeing that 2010 is more than half-way done)
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: yes
<drubin> thelinuxer: We do not need to get into details about that. ;-p
<drubin> great to see testimonials and pics
<Seveas> thelinuxer, is the egypt loco team approved yet?
<thelinuxer> highvoltage: we are actually responsible for students summer training, currently in progress
<highvoltage> thelinuxer: great
<thelinuxer> i uploaded a few photos here, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Events/SummerTraining2010
<thelinuxer> it's only a temp page
<thelinuxer> Seveas: no it isn't
<thelinuxer> but we plan to get approved by the end on this month (next meeting)
<Seveas> thelinuxer, how are you planning to achieve that?
<thelinuxer> currently we have done 1 install fest
<thelinuxer> most of us are involved with other LUGs like EGLUG
<thelinuxer> the second event is the summer training we are having now
<thelinuxer> and recently I finished our website
<thelinuxer> and we start filling it with content :)
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: I dont see your team down on the list for this months meeting for LC .  How do you plan on getting your  team ready for this?  how have you gone about organising it ?
<thelinuxer> actually i am waiting till we end the summer training (next Thrusday) cause we don't have much time now
<Sensiva> We were busy preparing for the currently ongoing training.
<thelinuxer> we will have a meeting to finalize the application and the roadmap
<thelinuxer> directly after the summer training
<thelinuxer> now we just try to document everything
<thelinuxer> and share everything with the community
<thelinuxer> and constantly distribute ubuntu CDs
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Ahmed Toulan / thelinuxer . BOARD MEMBERS ONLY
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Ahmed Toulan / thelinuxer . BOARD MEMBERS ONLY.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Seveas> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Seveas. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +1 [ active participation in loco team, good local feedback of work from peers ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Sensiva> We didn't cheer for the guy yet lol
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<highvoltage> didn't popey say he had to go?
<popey> no
<popey> :D
<popey> I am playing with czajkowski
<popey> +1
<popey> :)
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<highvoltage> popey: oh oO
<czajkowski> drubin: ping
<Seveas> drubin, finish him!
<popey> lol
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<Sensiva> :D
<drubin> sorry
<thelinuxer> Seveas: lol
<mgamal> :D
<highvoltage> I actually lolled
<popey> congrats!
<popey> ditto!
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<Seveas> thelinuxer, welcome aboard!
<thelinuxer> thanx guys  :D
<EgyParadox> Congratulations
<Sensiva> thelinuxer Congrats
<highvoltage> thanks everyone and goodbye!
<popey> wow
<popey> so many great people!
<thelinuxer> thanx everyone
<ogra_cmpc> congrats !
<popey> what a good month!
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:32.
<MFawzy> congrats thelinuxer
<mgamal> congrats thelinuxer
 * czajkowski hugs MootBot 
<Seveas> woo, good meeting everyone
<alonswartz> Thanks folks
<Seveas> see you next month!
<thelinuxer> thanx mgamal Sensiva MFawzy EgyParadox
<stgraber> see you all next month
<moshe742> thanks
 * popey pokes czajkowski with an #endmeeting
<ogra_cmpc> czajkowski, thanks for leading
<Seveas> popey, too late
<popey> oh
<popey> damnit
<popey> </bauer>
<drubin> thanks czajkowski
<Seveas> you're really getting old
<popey> hmm
<popey> speak up!
<ogra_cmpc> popey, it gets worse, belive me
<Seveas> next meeting is august 3rd
<czajkowski> popey: get off the bandwaggon! or I'm gonna wallop you
 * popey edit0rs the wiki
<popey> will leave Rhonda in the wiki
 * ajmitch will just have to delurk to support Rhonda some other time then :)
<popey> :)
<zkriesse> great meeting
<nils1> is there a meeting afterwards?
<Seveas> ajmitch, august 3rd :)
<Seveas> nils1, what for?
<ajmitch> Seveas: as if I can remember that far ahead
<nils1> i dont know :-)
<popey> the after party
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<Seveas> I'll bring the vuvuzela
<zkriesse> community council meeting
<popey> I'll bring the explosives
<Seveas> city finally got quieter after an hour of celebrating
<nils1> just had a question about mailing list creation on rt.ubuntu.com and thought anyone of the 200people in here might have an idea
<ajmitch> Seveas: oh yeah, some little football game or somthing?
<Seveas> yeah, apparently .nl beat urugay (.uy?) 3 to 1
<popey> yes, the cc meeting started 35 mins ago
<czajkowski> nils1: is this for a loco mailing list?
<Seveas> popey, and nobody showed up for it?
<popey> nothing on the agenda
<Seveas> heh
<popey> it was mentioned on the ml
<nils1> translation team list for launchpad
<popey> cc is quiet now everyone else does its bidding :)
<Seveas> the community is doing well if the CC has an empty agenda :)
<ogra_cmpc> or scared
<nils1> loco is hard to define, because low german is spoken all over the world
<ajmitch> or everything's delegated out
<popey> right, I'm off everyone, thanks all
<ogra_cmpc> nils1, out of bavaria you mean ?
<czajkowski> nils1: so you need a seperate list?
<czajkowski> nils1: isn't launchpad an option ?
<czajkowski> popey: nn
<popey> hah, not nn, off to shoot some things on my computer :)
<nils1> it would be, but the system doesnt allow me to do that for the ubuntu-l10n-nds team
<nils1> telling me to create an ubuntu list
<scott_ev> I had to step away.  What do I need to do next?
<Seveas> scott_ev, nothing :)
<nils1> but my ticket is from spring or so
<scott_ev> kk
<popey> scott_ev: join #ubuntu-irc and ask for a cloak
<bazhang> scott_ev, get an irc ubuntu cloak
<popey> scott_ev: also join lwn
<scott_ev> already have a cloak
<zkriesse> scott_ev: no it'll be an @ubuntu/member cloak!
<scott_ev> lwn?  sorry don't know that one
<popey> oh, you can get an ubuntu one
<popey> Linux Weekly News
<scott_ev> zkriesse: aha
<popey> you get a free subscription
<popey> and....
<popey> tomorrow...
<scott_ev> popey: yes I should to that.  do you have a link?
<popey> you get a special surprise :)
<popey> !membership
<czajkowski> nils1: did you log a RT ?
<ubottu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<popey> ^^ is linked there
<scott_ev> kk
<czajkowski> if so by any chance do you have the ticket number
<nils1> ticket 9614
<nils1> created on march 4th and since that just been handed to other users on rt
<scott_ev> wow, I never even bothered to read the benefits of memberhsip.  I just wanted to be a member
<czajkowski> nils1: let me go poke folks
<bazhang> #ubuntu-irc to get the cloak scott_ev
<nils1> hej, thank you very much!
<czajkowski> nils1: no bother
<MichealH_> What needs be done for my membership next time?
<MichealH_> Wiki?
<MichealH_> Ahem... ^^
<czajkowski> MichealH_: a more detailed wiki
<czajkowski> with testimonals
<scott_ev> bazhang: thanks
<czajkowski> MichealH_: I think you should give it a few months and then come bac.
<czajkowski> nils1: just asked jcastro so hopefully I'll be able to find out
<Seveas> MichealH_, some actual sustained and significant contributions would be nice
<jcastro> nils1: it's in the is queue
<czajkowski> nils1: if you ask in #canonical-is
<MichealH_> I hav someone on the case with help for my wiki
<nils1> ah ok
<Ddorda> back
<czajkowski> MichealH_: please give it some time.
<Ddorda> god, your bot spams so much!
<czajkowski> Ddorda: no it doesn't it's used for the voting and topics
<Ddorda> i would suggest removing the part when he just follows what you say
<Ddorda> czajkowski: the part when he says the total count of the vote is great
<Ddorda> but the part of just repeating your vote....
<Sensiva> It is important to show an acknowledgment tho
<Ddorda> Sensiva: well, to me it looks like just spaming, we can see when you're voting without the bot mentions
<Sensiva> Ddorda I understand what you mean, but the bot should show that it parsed the message already
<Ddorda> i see
<Sensiva> Maybe czajkowski might need to shorten that line a bit, or make it reported to him in private or so
<Seveas> Ddorda, repeating the vote both confirms and counts votes. Very important
<popey> btw AlanBell is rewriting the bot
<Seveas> Sensiva, czajkowski doesn't own/operate the bot. Also, she's a she, not a he :)
 * Sensiva coughs
<Sensiva> sowwwyy
<jcastro> I am pretty sure the bot's spam-level is popey's fault
<czajkowski> tis ok , not a week goes by without someone getting mixed up.
<czajkowski> So much so I've a slide on it at my talk this week
<drubin> I am also pretty sure that czajkowski was operating the bot
<popey> #blamepopey
<Seveas> drubin, I mean running the bot process and maintaining it :)
<drubin> I know
<nils1> ok, got to go to bed.. have a good night alltogether!
<AlanBell> wassup?
<MichealH_> Wassup?
<AlanBell> oh, the bot ping
<czajkowski> AlanBell: we were just talking about MootBot
<AlanBell> I think the new bot will be a bit quieter, there might be verbosity levels you can set too
<Sensiva> Its nice knowing you all, catch you later
<Sensiva> bye
<Ddorda> AlanBell: what's new bot?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-07
 * Rhonda peeks around. Did I miss a meeting? Oh, right. Erm â¦
<Rhonda> ajmitch, czajkowski, popey: I was told applying for MOTU would give me membership directly too - I just forgot to remove myself from the EMEA schedule. Sorry. %-)
<Rhonda> ajmitch, czajkowski, popey: Was rather a time constraint then too at that point with my private stuff needing attention.
<czajkowski> Rhonda: no worries
<nigelb> 23
<nigelb> er, ouch, sorry, window fail
<Ddorda> nigelb: i told you to stay away from that 7, even though it's blue and shiny, it is very breakable. after all it's still a window...
<nigelb> Ddorda: 7?
<Rhonda> haha
<Ddorda> nigelb: how many 7 windows do you know?
<Ddorda> i feel tricky today...
<nigelb> Ddorda: heh, oh yeah.  Anyway, I was talking about irssi windows.  I typed the window number before my keybind for /windows
<cjwatson> hi folks
<ev> hiya
<barry> hello
<mvo_> hi
<Keybuk> hi
<doko> hi
<psurbhi> hi
<robbiew> o/
 * cjwatson desperately wishes it would cool down some more here
<cjwatson> though the Texan is going to tell me to quit being a wimp
<Keybuk> cjwatson: they don't have humidity in Texas
<barry> cjwatson: or the DC native.  DC was built on a swamp, something i'm reminded of this week :(
<ev> it's 103 on the east coast
<ev> of the US, that is
<ev> cjwatson: has it been much warmer than London there?  We've had lovely weather the past few weeks.
<robbiew> Keybuk: eh hem....take a trip to Houston
<robbiew> barry: ack...DC is INSANELY humid...but Houston is even worse
<robbiew> el nino!!!
<ScottK> IIRC, Houston is where air conditioning was invented.
<cjwatson> ev: I grew up in colder weather
<barry> robbiew: worse?!  it must be like living in the clouds
<robbiew> barry: more like the amazon
<ev> ah, right
<cjwatson> ev: dunno whether it's warmer than London, but I've never really acclimatised properly
<robbiew> barry: plus DC doesn't stay hot as many months...and tends to cool down in the evenings
<ev> cjwatson: you're in for a fun time if the next UDS is in one of those southeastern states.
<robbiew> heh...might be Orlando
<robbiew> or back to Dallas
 * robbiew can feel the lurkers making note of that
<robbiew> who's chairing today?
<Keybuk> Orlando sounds good
<Keybuk> who's for a Space Mountain BOF?
<ev> NOT I
<cjwatson> last meeting log says it's me
<mvo_> space mountain?
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:08. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> ev: wuss
<ev> mvo_: roller coaster in complete darkness
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<cjwatson> >>> print ', '.join(order)
<cjwatson> barry, ev, mvo, cjwatson, doko, csurbhi, Keybuk
<ev> Keybuk: I've played that game once.  I came out very green.
<mvo_> *weeh* I'm too scared for this. I thought for a moment its a ref to a tad willisam book (space mountains, orlando, all there too)
<barry> short week due ot usa holiday.  f-m-robust-python-packaging: worked on versioned .so files patch; upstream email discussions; TODO write pep. f-m-python-versions: scripting py2.7 archive PPA in ~pythoneers; 2375 successful builds; 90 failed; TODO analyze failures.  misc: python-distribute patch testing; installing maverick on mbp; uefi presentation.
<barry> done
<ev> Racing to finish as much of the installer redesign as I can before the sprint.  Saving parallel debconf and gdk offscreen window work for the sprint.  Currently finishing the automatic partitioning page, then wiring up the timezone page to a local copy of the new geonames service while I wait for IS to give me a server for it (RT #39986).
<ev> done
<mvo_> software-center: work on lazr.restfulclient integration (gobject, non-blocking), plugin interface, buy-something, new-apps spec, fixes; alpha2 tasks (app-install-data, c-n-f-data, apt-ddp); python-apt: port gdebi debfile.py (with kiwinote) to python-apt, add tests, happy about the result; update-notifier: add plugin code
<mvo_> (done)
<cjwatson> done: alpha-2 (mostly pitti); merged grub2 by-id handling into Debian at long last, and fixed a few bugs; almost caught up with my 10.04.1 SRU targets; some progress on foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer, with apw and mjg59 (current state: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/tmp/fbcon-handoff.ogv)
<cjwatson> todo: finish and submit kernel patch to add linearfb, for foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer; background image handling fixes for same; get some testing on something that isn't just KVM at 1024x768
<doko> looking for bugs in openjdk-6 builds for older releases (ant bugs, bugs in the hardening defaults?)
<doko> first python2.[67], python3.[12] updates, python-stdlib for maverick
<doko> some merging of linaro-gcc patches
<doko> (done)
<psurbhi> 1) fixed some bugs in btrfs support for grub2. Submitted the patch on grub-devel@gnu.org. Waiting to see whether it can be passed as GPL3.
<psurbhi> 2) worked on bug 598946 - of applying a patch for btrfs support to gparted. Submitted a proposed merge request for the same. Need to rework on this - got comments from cjwatson.
<psurbhi> 3) working on the mdadm delta for maverick. Debian mdadm is at 3.2.1 while maverick mdadm is at 2.6.7.1
<psurbhi> 4) expecting work on btrfs for grub-2 once the patch is reviewed. Shall complete the merge for mdadm by then or before re-starting the btrfs work
<psurbhi> 5) done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598946 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "X fall in failsafe mode after install if nvidia restricted drivers are installed during LiveCD session in intrepid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/598946
<psurbhi> oops wrong bug num
<Keybuk> working on ureadahead reprofiling; this makes it so each boot is profiled for the next and changes in pack are averaged between boots
<Keybuk> also looking into doing readahead directly on the disk, in preparation for defrag stuff with btrfs
<Keybuk> ~
<psurbhi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bug/598946
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 598946 in gparted (Ubuntu) "Include btrfs support for gparted" [Undecided,In progress]
<cjwatson> psurbhi: ubottu is a bit buggy sometimes
<psurbhi> ok
<cjwatson> ah, that's everyone
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<cjwatson> none that I can see
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Alpha-3 bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha-3 bugs
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27561
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27561
<cjwatson> doko filed a bunch of build failures that need to be looked at
<cjwatson> mvo_: can you take apt and aptitude?
<mvo_> sure thing
<cjwatson> Keybuk: can you take upstart (two bugs, oddly)?
<cjwatson> doko: I guess you're dealing with the gcc-4.4 bug there yourself
<cjwatson> ev: could you take perl?
<ev> cjwatson: sure
<cjwatson> (ok, this is going to be sort of random now)
<cjwatson> barry: could you take valgrind?
<barry> cjwatson: yep
<cjwatson> psurbhi: could you take iptables from that list?
<doko> cjwatson: yes
<psurbhi> cjwatson, yes
<cjwatson> and I'll take, uh, cyrus-sasl2 I guess for now
<cjwatson> that should get us moving a bit
<mvo_> I will look at more when I have a idle moment, usually its fun to fix them
<cjwatson> yeah, feel free to grab more once you run out, this sort of thing is usually not too hard
 * robbiew will also cover them in this week's release meeting
<cjwatson> oh, and make sure to check for newer versions in Debian; if it can be fixed with a sync or a merge, so much the better
<barry> cjwatson: +1
<doko> barry: or new upstream/cvs for valgrind
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<barry> doko: gotcha
<Keybuk> cjwatson: still waiting for launchpad to show me the bug#s
 * cjwatson feeds Keybuk's network hamsters
<mvo_> gdebi can now use the python-apt debfile.py and it became really nice
<doko> good news is that some soyuz bugs for test rebuilds are now fixed, enabling rebuilds for armel, and selecting only one component (main).
<robbiew> New release manager starts August 1st
<ev> yay
<Keybuk> cjwatson: err, I'm not sure I can fix this bug
<barry> cool
<Keybuk> I'm just using dh 7 so it could be a debhelper bug?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: talk it over after the meeting?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: oh, no, it's a debian/rules bug.  use := not =
<cjwatson> in the armel case
<mvo_> release manager++
<Keybuk> cjwatson: what armel case?
<cjwatson> ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),armel)
<cjwatson> CFLAGS="$(filter-out -fPIE,$(CFLAGS))"
<cjwatson> LDFLAGS="$(filter-out -pie,$(LDFLAGS))"
<cjwatson> endif
<Keybuk> huh, I didn't put that there :p
<Keybuk> sounds like a doko-ism
 * doko looks away
<cjwatson> looks like lool
<cjwatson> cf. 0.6.0-4
<Keybuk> ah right
<doko> hmm, the same is probably in libnih
<cjwatson> surprised that didn't break before
 * barry has maverick running natively on his mbp1,1
 * mvo_ hugs barry
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> I'm a bit worried that http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-foundations-maverick-alpha-3.html has been basically static for the last week
<cjwatson> please have a look and see if there's anything easy you can pick off :-)
<robbiew> reminder to fill out https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick/Foundations ;)
<cjwatson> I realise a lot of things will likely get moving at the sprint, but I tend to feel a bit uncomfortable in release meetings when I have to say that there's been no feature progress
<robbiew> and https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick/CrossTeam, if you need to
<doko> ok, will update some specs
 * barry too
 * mvo_ needs to do that too
<cjwatson> ok, anything else?
<doko> Schland!!!
<mvo_> doko++
<robbiew> lol
<ev> work items> I've not been marking mine as completed as the installer design has changed slightly and created/deleted quite a few.  I'll clean that up this weekend, hopefully not offsetting the total too much.
<dholbach> me hugs doko and mvo_
<cjwatson> yeah, it's perhaps unfortunate that the graph doesn't colour inprogress differently
<cjwatson> I wonder if it ought to
<cjwatson> I have a lot of stuff inprogress upstream but not yet landed
<barry> cjwatson: i think it should
<lool> cjwatson: (-fPIE, is this for upstart?  The original version was correct since it was a CFLAGS= passed to configure http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28983614/upstart_0.6.0-3_0.6.0-4.diff.gz probably the dh 7 refactoring)
<lool> will discuss after the meeting
<ev> what I'd really like is having (TODO, DONE, and X%), where X% could be how much of the task you estimate to be done.
<robbiew> hmm
<cjwatson> mm, of course that may just mean the WIs are insufficiently fine-grained
<robbiew> well..if you have to estimate a task being done...perhaps the task should be broken in to more tasks ;)
<ev> good points
<cjwatson> but it can get a bit silly if you break down too much, hard to say
<robbiew> true
<ev> sometimes you just don't know what's involved
<ev> and adding additional work items breaks the burndown
<robbiew> ev: how so?
<robbiew> you mean the trend line?
<mvo_> yeah, while I like WI I find it hard to plan them in adavance too well
<ev> yes
<robbiew> eh...don't worry about that...I'd rather you add work items
<ev> noted
<lool> problem is you cant even budget, one work item is one vertical unit on the chart; I think the server team extends them to be of variable size; one workaround is to budget workitems with Research day1: TODO, Research day2: TODO, Implementation day1: TODO etc.
<lool> (we have the same problems wiht Linaro workitems being added :)
<ev> heh
<robbiew> imo, the burndowns are useful for knowing how much work we have left to do
<robbiew> and for knowing when we need to defer/drop
<robbiew> that's about it
<robbiew> but those are REALLY usefull
<robbiew> and something we didn't have before
<robbiew> anything beyond those uses...gets complicated and really needs a dedicated engineer to address them all, imo
<robbiew>  /soapbox speech
<cjwatson> I'll have a word with pitti and see if he thinks a separate category for inprogress makes sense; that's a relatively simple change
<cjwatson> I agree that more serious development probably gets out of scope pretty quickly
<cjwatson> ok, anything else?
<ev> nothing here
<barry> nope
<robbiew> nope
<psurbhi> could submitted upstream be a good milestone? because thats very close to "Done"
<doko> depends much on the work item
<psurbhi> ok
<cjwatson> yeah, it varies a lot, sometimes that's close to done, sometimes that's just the first step in a safa
<cjwatson> er, saga
<psurbhi> ok
<cjwatson> anyway, perhaps further work items discussion -> #ubuntu-devel
<cjwatson> thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:45.
<mvo_> thanks
<psurbhi> thanks
<ev> thanks
<Rhonda> finished at 10:45?
<Rhonda> Shouldn't MootBot report times in UTC?
<soren> Rhonda: It should. It never did, though.
<soren> Rhonda: I think it's UTC-5 or something weird like that.
<Rhonda> The person running it should just export TZ=UTC before starting the bot.
<Rhonda> That should fix it.
<soren> I think the fix is well-known.
<soren> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/mootbot/+bug/138905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 138905 in Mootbot "Time is way off" [Undecided,Fix released]
<highvoltage> hey!
<highvoltage> am I timezone confused or is it edubuntu meeting time?
<czajkowski> highvoltage: you're always confused :)
<ScottK> Right, but he was specific about the type of confusion.
<highvoltage> I guess
<czajkowski> ScottK: true :)
 * highvoltage gets back to another meeting that was paused...
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-08
<zkriesse> MootBot: hi
<zkriesse> Does anyone here know if I could possibly get mootbot in my channel?
<zkriesse> !MootBot
<ubottu> mootbot is a bot to make the process of summarizing !meetings easier - Information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<Rhonda> soren: Thanks for the hint. Am repoening the bug now and leaving the TZ hint :)
<thorwil> godbyk-android: in fact we really should do that
<thorwil> godbyk-android: meeting opened. nobody besides us to is here, so: meeting closed :)
<godbyk-android> Sure. Guess I souls get in front if my computer then. :-)
<godbyk-android> ha!
<godbyk-android> So easy.
<thorwil> really worth getting up early, isn't it?
<godbyk-android> It's pretty sad if I'm the only one showing up.
<godbyk-android> Yeah, I need to adjust my availability for this meeting. Move it to a more sensible time or something.
<thorwil> godbyk-android: mpt is on holiday last and this week
<godbyk-android> Aha
<godbyk-android> 7 am sucks. :-)
<thorwil> that on top of this running on the side with everyone having enough on their hands, anyway ...
<godbyk-android> (especially since I usually have to be at another meeting an  hour or two later)
<thorwil> godbyk-android: mpt mentioned a book project you talked about?
<godbyk-android> Yeah, I think we should have a usability principles/design book for open source developers
<thorwil> i agree in so far as there should be a central resource
<godbyk-android> Something that's  a  bit more general than the HIGs.
<thorwil> godbyk-android: sure. including sections on common misconceptions regarding the value of options, expert-modes and such
<godbyk> Basically something that would help OSS developers develop more usable software at the start and also explain  how to go about testing their software (for usability).
<godbyk> right
<godbyk> giving concrete examples to illustrate bad designers and how to make them better (and *why* the better designs are better).
<godbyk> as it stands now, I think the usability thing is kind of a mystery to most developers.
<godbyk> and they're not too inclined to buy expensive books to read.
<godbyk> so we toss together a free book (ala the Ubuntu manual), web site, etc., etc.
<godbyk> something that can be linked to during discussions (in email lists, irc chats, etc.)
<thorwil> godbyk: i have been thinking all the same and even vaguely mentioned it when sabdfl offered me to apply for a job. well, that did not happen
<godbyk> bummer
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> WELCOME EVERYBODY!
<dholbach> Who's all here for the LoCo Directory meeting?
<mhall119> o/
<rick_h_> +1
<dholbach> Who else? Come on, don't be shy :-)
<Ddorda> i'm here
<jasonjang> +1
<Ddorda> still playing Lego though
<cjohnston> o/
<Daviey> \o
<dholbach> awesome - if anybody of you comes in late, please let us know you're there :)
<dholbach> I talked to mhall119 about this meeting and we thought it'd make sense to introduce the project first, talk about how things are done right now and answer all the questions, then proceed to review the open bugs and see if we need to reprioritise
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Introduction
<MootBot> New Topic:  Introduction
<dholbach> So we're talking about http://loco.ubuntu.com/ which first aimed to replace the giant list of loco teams
<rww> o/
<dholbach> (does anybody have a link for that?)
<dholbach> so basically just a big list of teams, who's admin of those teams, where their websites are, if they're approved etc.
<cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<dholbach> thanks cjohnston - you can see that list here http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
<dholbach> we get most of the information from Launchpad through launchpadlib
<dholbach> the next step was that we added information about events that teams are holding
<dholbach> so if you head to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ you get an idea of what's currently going on
<dholbach> we distinguish between global events (like release parties or the ubuntu global jam)
<dholbach> and local events, like real-life meetings those teams are holding
<dholbach> folks can confirm their attendance for those events and add comments, etc.
<dholbach> we partly integrated maps and country/continent information, but that's still in flux
<dholbach> please: if you have any questions or things are not clear, please do ask
<dholbach> any questions right now? :)
<Daviey> dholbach, Does it rock?
<mongolito404> Is there any other format available for the list of events (iCal, RSS, etc/)  ?
<dholbach> Daviey: it doesn't rock - it ROCKs
<Daviey> dholbach, Ah good! :)
<dholbach> mongolito404: yes, there's ICal information about events
<mongolito404> And is there a list of events per LoCo team ?
<mhall119> there's also RSS feeds for events
<dholbach> there you go :)
<Ddorda> dholbach: it will be possible in the future to make a "one time meeting place"? since now we have meetings in different places, and making a new place for the list everytime is annoying
<cjohnston> mongolito404: yes... if you click on the loco team from the teams page
<mhall119> mongolito404: yes, if you go to the teams's page, there's a link
<dholbach> Ddorda: you mean that you can re-use existing venues?
<mhall119> also, there is a REST/JSON interface to all of the information in the loco-directory, so you can write mashups or feed data into another website/app: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory/API
<Ddorda> dholbach: i mean, if it is possible to make a "one time venue"
 * dholbach hugs mhall119
<dholbach> Ddorda: so that the venue does not appear ever again?
<Ddorda> indeed
<mongolito404> I don't see an iCal feed for a team events page. I'm missing something ?
<dholbach> Ddorda: no, that functionality is not there yet - can you file a bug about it, so we can see how best to implement it and what others think?
<mhall119> mongolito404: the ical is global only right now, but there are per-team RSS feeds of events
<Ddorda> dholbach: will do.
<dholbach> thanks Ddorda
<Ddorda> another question: my friend has the directory interface in Hebrew for some reason, any way to change it back to English?
<dholbach> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/ubuntu-pk/rss/ â for example
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/ubuntu-pk/rss/  for example
<rww> Ddorda: can you subscribe ~robertwall to it when you do? I'd been meaning to ask for one-time venues.
<Ddorda> rww: sure thing :)
<dholbach> Ddorda: there's a bug about it, you need to change browser's language atm
<Ddorda> dholbach: okay, thanks :)
<dholbach> bug 570638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570638 in loco-directory "translations not selectable on the website" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570638
<dholbach> any more immediate questions?
<Ddorda> oh! another thing: is it possible to choose other organizer to the meeting, instead of having the LoCo as an organizer?
<dholbach> Ddorda: no, not yet, we don't have an event organiser role
<dholbach> it might make sense to have a contact for an event
<Ddorda> since there are some meetings that our LoCo takes part in, but not the organizer
<mhall119> I think there is a bug for that
<Ddorda> dholbach: no need for a role
<mhall119> Ddorda: you can still leave the LoCo as the organizer in the LD
<Ddorda> hwo about some kind of category, like the venues..
<mhall119> it's really to specify which loco is involved, not the loco's role in the event
<dholbach> I think it'd be good to select a member or two as contacts for an event if there's any queries
<dholbach> oh, maybe I misunderstood
<moshe742> i think he means if the organizers are another group for open source
<dholbach> Ddorda: can you clarify?
<moshe742> he= Ddorda
<Ddorda> dholbach: ..?
<moshe742> you mean about august pinguin, right?
<Ddorda> moshe742: indeed
<Ddorda> we don't organize August penguin event, but we do take part in it
<Ddorda> but in the LoCo directory it says that we organize it
<dholbach> maybe we can have a separate discussion on the loco-contacts or ubuntu-event-planners mailing lists?
<mhall119> The organizing team means which team has organized to participate in the event
<mhall119> not necessarily who is running the event
<Ddorda> mhall119: i see, so it's about 'the right word' :)
<mhall119> right
<dholbach> ok, let's make that a separate discussion :)
<dholbach> or file a bug and we fix the description :)
<Ddorda> will do
<dholbach> whatever seems right :)
<dholbach> thanks
<mongolito404> viewer may be confused as "Organizing" will usually implies that the team is organizing the event, not its own participation at the event.
<Ddorda> 2 bug reports from one coversation, nice :)
<dholbach> mongolito404: ok, I see what you mean
<dholbach> alright, if there's no other immediate questions (please just keep them coming), we can talk about how the LD is developed and how we work together
 * Daviey suggests if there is doubt, it's at the very least a usability issue.. Therefore raise a bug and be as descriptive as possible
<moshe742> what is LD?
<mhall119> Ddorda: I suspect they won't be the last
<dholbach> moshe742: sorry, the LoCo Directory
<moshe742> thanks:)
<Ddorda> LaunchDad :D
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> [TOPIC] LoCo Directory Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  LoCo Directory Development
<mhall119> we use LP and LD a lot, sometimes I've had to re-read
<dholbach> alright, so we have a bunch of people in here who helped develop the LoCo Directory and who put a lot of effort into making it rock
<dholbach> getting the source code is trivial,    bzr branch lp:loco-directory    will give you all you need
<dholbach> it even comes with an INSTALL file that tells you how to set it up and make it run locally
<Daviey> dholbach, Do we still suggest postgres for local?!
<dholbach> it's written in python and uses the Django framework
<dholbach> Daviey: no, it's optional
<mhall119> Daviey: I think we default local_settings.py to sqlite
<dholbach> mhall119 will give a session at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek next week about Django and how to work with it, if you're interested
<mhall119> the class will be generic Django, not LD specific, but I will hit on most of what is used in LD
<dholbach> the basics are: you define what kind of data you work with in models, define an url structure, set up views on that data (what do I want on a specific page), then put stuff into templates which contain bits of HTML and some very simple "programming language" to shoehorn the data into the page
<dholbach> particularly because the data used in the LD is very clear and immediate (you have teams, team.contact, venues and venue.city, etc.) it's such a fun and interesting project to work on
<dholbach> we use launchpadlib to get data from Launchpad, but that's basically all the code bases we use
<dholbach> on the web front we use just html and jquery for some nice animations and to make the interface nicer
<dholbach> are there questions about the "platform"?
<dholbach> if you have questions later on, just ask :)
<dholbach> so how do we work together?
<moshe742> well, i am new here so where can i get the basics on all of this?
<dholbach> moshe742: do you have any specific questions?
<mhall119> moshe742: will you be able to attend my classes on the 16th?
<Ddorda> may i ask the annoying question "why not drupal" ?
<moshe742> when will it be?
<dholbach> Ddorda: we all liked django and python and it's what the project was started in
<mhall119> moshe742: 16:00UTC->18:00
<mhall119> Ddorda: Django, being an app framework rather an a CMS, was more suited to what we were doing
<moshe742> will it be in the irc?
<dholbach> moshe742: yes in #ubuntu-classroom
<mhall119> moshe742: yes, in #ubuntu-classroom
<Ddorda> dholbach: and i like Drupal! let's make an 0.9 revolution like Compiz
<moshe742> ok, i will be there
<dholbach> just check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek - it has all the details
<Ddorda> joking :P
<dholbach> if you have played around with python a bit and checked out the source code I guess a lot of it will make sense if you look at it a bit
<dholbach> if not, talk to us on #ubuntu-locoteams
<dholbach> I'm sure that Daviey, mhall119, toabctl, cjohnston, myself or others will be happy to help you get started
<Daviey> o/
<dholbach> so the way we work is something like this:
<dholbach>  - we get a bug report or file a bug ourselves
<Ddorda> dholbach: i was joking... don't take me seriously :P
<dholbach>  - somebody decides to work on it, so they branch lp:loco-directory and work on a separate branch for that fix
<dholbach>  - we use merge proposals and peer-review everything
<dholbach>  - that gets merged, the bug gets milestoned with whatever is the current milestone
<dholbach>  - once we have a bunch of interesting bugs fixed, we merge new translations from launchpad in
<dholbach>  - we release it and ask the Canonical IS team to get the new code on loco.ubuntu.com
<dholbach>  - DONE :)
<dholbach> if you need help with bzr or merge proposals we can help with that too
<mhall119> it's very easy once you get into it
<cjohnston> ground control is a great tool for starting too
<dholbach> the idea is that we try to work on separate things, get them reviewed by the team and merge them in and release when it feels right
<rww> Do you release on a set schedule, or just when there's a good collection of changes?
<dholbach> rww: the latter
<dholbach> rww: if there's something important we fixed or it feels like it's substantial we release
<mhall119> and don't be offended if your merge proposal gets marked as "Needs Fixing", most of them do, even the ones the main developers submit
<dholbach> ie: https://launchpad.net/loco-directory/0.2.x/0.2.4
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/loco-directory/0.2.x/0.2.5
<dholbach> those were smaller releases which fixed just a couple of bugs
<Ddorda> i reported both bugs, can i write them down here so people will see, or it will be too much spam?
<mhall119> Ddorda: we're going to review open bugs in a bit
<dholbach> Ddorda: we'll go through bugs later on, if that's OK
<Ddorda> sure, sorry :)
<dholbach> awesome
<mhall119> since you got them in so quickly, we can go over them too
<dholbach> just a few words about bugs now
<dholbach> we use tags to indicate where those bugs are happening or what they affect
<dholbach> check out https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs
<dholbach> on the right hand side you can see a list of tags
<dholbach> so "events", "teams", "venues", "maps" should be obvious
<dholbach> "stats" is about statistics we'll probably introduce one day
<dholbach> "mainpage" is about making the landing page more useful, "ui" is well, about UI
<dholbach> but we also have some special tags like "bitesize" which are small bugs suitable for newcomers
<dholbach> or "needs-decision" where we identified a problem and don't know yet how to fix it, the LoCo Council helped us in the past with those
<dholbach> "schema-change" means that something in the data structure has changed
<dholbach> everything else is pretty straight-forward:
<dholbach>  - Triaged once the bug is full-well understood
<mhall119> bitesize bugs are good for people who are learning python and django, they are usually one or two line fixes, we save them for newcomers to encourage people to get involved
<dholbach>  - In Progress (plus assigned to someone) if someone is working on it
<dholbach>  - "Fix Committed" once the fix has been merged into lp:loco-directory (but is not deployed on loco.ubuntu.com yet)
<dholbach>  - Fix Released once it was released
<dholbach> also once a fix is in trunk (lp:loco-directory), we milestone it, so we have some kind of "changelog" for the release
<dholbach> note that the bottom of http://loco.ubuntu.com/ shows the current release
<dholbach> are there any more questions about the LD and how it's developed?
<dholbach> I know that it might be a bit much information all at once :)
<mhall119> we also use blueprints for planning major changes and features
<mongolito404> Any automatic testing ?
 * Daviey adds, even if you are unsure of your fix - push it to launchpad via bzr anyway and propose for merging.  Then it'll be either accepted, or a discussion on how to imporve it - to then get it landed
<Daviey> it's really not as scary as it sounds!
<Daviey> mongolito404, Our automatic testing framework is currently community based :)
<dholbach> Daviey adds a good point - most of the development discussion happens in blueprints and even hackers who landed lots of fixes sometimes have to rework their fixes a couple of times to get it right
<dholbach> it's important that we as a team can say: ok, yes, we like it the way it is because we'll maintain the page
<dholbach> mongolito404: not as much as we'd like
<Daviey> Oh, and dholbach is the offical gatekeeper of code. :)
<dholbach> mongolito404: we had a couple of test cases, but no, not much, unfortunately
<mhall119> bzr branches on launchpad are cheap, so make and push whatever work you do so it's available to others
<Daviey> (but ideally keep the changes small and easy to read)
<dholbach> can the IRC Council please kick Daviey from the thannel (reason: I'm NOT the offical gatekeeper!)
<dholbach> s/thannel/channel
<Daviey> :)
<cjohnston> yes you are
<cjohnston> :-
<cjohnston> :-P
<mhall119> s/official/de facto/
<dholbach> no, I'm not - I'm really just a team member like everybody else :)
<dholbach> we have no hierarchy :)
<mhall119> he's our community-appointed benevolent dictator
<Daviey> It really helps if you commit often.  So even changing a few lines to do X, commit it to bzr with a readable changelog
<dholbach> it's all bit chaotic, but in a good way :)
<dholbach> Daviey++
<cjohnston> cabdfn  = community-appointed benevolent dictator... for now
<cjohnston> hehe
<Daviey> committing a massive change in one commit isn't groovy. ;)
<mhall119> +1
<dholbach> but as we said before: it's all easy, not too hard, whatever you want to contribute is appreciate and we'll mentor you if you too think this is an exciting and important project
<cjohnston> Daviey: https://edge.launchpad.net/~loco-directory-dev   dholbach looks like the owner to me.. hehe
<mhall119> we're also very laid back and informal, it's not hard to get a contribution merged into the loco-directory
<dholbach> any more questions?
<dholbach> did we bore everybody to sleep already? :)
<elky> Is it friday yet?
<mhall119> cjohnston: ~loco-directory-dev/loco-directory/0.2/ is trunk
<jasonjang> THX, i've no question, dholbach
<dholbach> elky: you're nearer to it than most of us others :)
<dholbach> alright, let's proceed to bugs then :)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Bug Review of the LD
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Review of the LD
<dholbach> I'd like to put some attention to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-loco-directory-plans
<dholbach> it's what we discussed at UDS and is stuff we'd like to get done in the maverick cycle if possible
<dholbach> if you look at the work items area, there's a couple of bugs that were all marked as "High importance"
<dholbach> so they'll turn up at https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs at the top
<dholbach> most of them revolve around making teams and events more easily findable because the lists get very long very easily
<dholbach> also to indicate team contacts, etc.
<Ddorda> so.. now i can show my bug reports? :D
<dholbach> do we still think they all make sense?
<dholbach> Ddorda: in a bit
<mhall119> dholbach: can we triage new bugs at the end?
<dholbach> sure
<mhall119> that'll cover Ddorda's
<dholbach> (also please note the [dholbach] in the Whiteboard section is just a preliminary measure to get them on the radar for the blueprint tracking)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> so, let have a look at the "High" importance bugs first - do they still all make sense there?
<cjohnston> in other words, he wants you to take his tasks.. lol
<dholbach> cjohnston: get to work! :)
<cjohnston> they are all beyond me.
<mhall119> dholbach: I think some of them are more wishlist than high
<dholbach> mhall119: for example?
<mhall119> I usually consider high bugs to mean something isn't working
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> maybe we should use critical for them?
<mhall119> like, showing descriptive team names
<Daviey> well IMo wishlist does indicate new feature
<dholbach> 601679 could be Critical for example
<Daviey> High is a current feature not working, or a non-critical regression
<cjohnston> I think we decided to prioritise things as we would like their importance in this cycle
 * Daviey missed that memo cjohnston 
<mhall119> dholbach: I agree with that, don't want spammers farming emails from LD
<cjohnston> Daviey: that seemed to be how it was from uds
<YoBoY> dholbach: +1 the mails are not visible by everyone in a majority of applications
<dholbach> so let's use Critical for stuff that doesn't work in the future
 * dholbach will readjust that bug
<dholbach> we don't use critical very often any way
<YoBoY> hi ^^"
<mhall119> we rarely have critical problems ;)
<Daviey> well a crticial bug is normally already on our radar.
<dholbach> I used High for the stuff that we put in the blueprint - hope that's ok
<mhall119> dholbach: there's nothing wrong with it, as long as we're all on the same page as to what that means
<cjohnston> I think they can have both meanings
<cjohnston> a feature thats high and a problem thats high
<dholbach> maybe somebody wants to document that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory? we don't use that page as much as we could :)
<dholbach> just 2-3 sentences
<dholbach> ok, nobody volunteers, I'll do it
<mhall119> dholbach: I'm already on it ;)
<dholbach> oh wow
<dholbach> mhall119 is unstoppable
 * dholbach hugs mhall119
<dholbach> (hugs are an important ingredient in the LoCo Directory as you can see)
<dholbach> mhall119, Daviey: do you want to go through the bugs one by one or should we look at them in groups?
<dholbach> (not sure how much time you all have)
<mhall119> nobody's listed on the schedule after us
<dholbach> ok, let's zip through them quickly - can you, if you think the importance should change, or tags are missing or something else is not clear please speak up, also if you intend to work on it?
<dholbach> from top to bottom on https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs
<dholbach> bug 601679
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601679 in loco-directory "The locoteam mail shouldn't be in clear for everyone" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601679
 * dholbach added teams, data
<dholbach> any takers?
<Ddorda> dholbach: sorry, i'm drupalian
<mhall119> ui
 * YoBoY only know how to open bugs T_T
<dholbach> ok, added
<mhall119> dholbach: will we only display the email for logged in users, or are we going to implement a contact form for anyone to use?
<dholbach> mhall119: LP has a contact form already - we can just link to that
<mhall119> right now, LD doesn't send out emails, but we've discussed that in the past
<dholbach> which requires log in there
<mhall119> ah, even better
<dholbach> yeah
<YoBoY> you choose, the mail is in clear for loged in users in LP, so...
<dholbach> should be a trivial change - I'll take it
<dholbach> next: bug 495046
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495046 in loco-directory "Display the real name in addition to the Launchpad name" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495046
<dholbach> looks alright to me, if you think it's a good idea to work on it just say "I'll take bug XYZ"
<dholbach> so we can go through them more quickly :)
<mhall119> is this for users?
<mhall119> display a user's real name
<dholbach> atm just for adding the real name, but it'd be a preparation for future user stuff
<dholbach> once we have that model it'll be trivial to add more
<mhall119> do we have real name info coming from LP right now?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> we need schema-change for that
<mhall119> Django's user table has a space for first and last name, we just need to get them from LP (if they're there)
<dholbach> it's not crazy amounts of work, but substantial because templates need to change too, etc
<dholbach> I wouldn't want to split up a display_name string from LP into first and last name programmatically
<dholbach> it invites too much problems
<YoBoY> not every one put a first and last name on LP
<mhall119> so, launchpad and ui tags for that one
<dholbach> think of Spanish names like Pedro Villavivencio Garrido, yes and what YoBoY said
<mhall119> who's our launchpadlib guru?
<dholbach> I'm not a guru, but I know that it just has .display_name as one string
<dholbach> it doesn't have first and last name
<mhall119> dholbach: we can just dump the entire display name into Django's Firstname field, and treat that like a display name
<dholbach> let's make that a separate discussion - I personally don't know if it should be the django user or if it should be something else because we might add other stuff in the future
<mhall119> okay, future discussion
<dholbach> rock on
<dholbach> next: bug 496250
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 496250 in loco-directory "Current LoCo Contact(s) is not shown" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496250
<dholbach> should be easy to do
<dholbach> requires a schema-change too
<dholbach> next: bug 570613 effie_jayx seems to be on it - does anybody know of any progress there?
<mhall119> yeah, and team members to update the info, because LP has no concept of a team contact
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570613 in loco-directory "Show map of events" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570613
<dholbach> mhall119: yep
<mhall119> dholbach: I'll take 496250
<dholbach> thanks mhall119 - can you assign to yourself?
<dholbach> I'll send a mail to effie-jayx about it and also ask toabctl and huats to have a look because they worked with map stuff in the past a lot I think
<mhall119> done
<dholbach> next: bug 579833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579833 in loco-directory "On team profile page, add flickr stream" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579833
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> should be VERY interesting, I don't know how easy or complicated it is
<dholbach> it'd certainly add more life to the LD :)
<mhall119> I think this can be considered as "Medium", and it's not a necessary feature addition, but still something desirable
<mhall119> along with the twitter/identica feeds
<dholbach> mhall119: ok, I made it High because it was discussed at UDS
<dholbach> I set the importance to medium
<dholbach> if anybody's interested in working on that, speak up
<dholbach> next: bug 582354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582354 in loco-directory "teams duplicated in listing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582354
<dholbach> seems to b ea bit more work, but something we really should fix soon
<mhall119> yeah, the big question is how to allow the transition without dumping all the old data
<dholbach> we answered  that question
<dholbach> comment 6
<mhall119> right
<mhall119> does LP provide any kind of internal id that doesn't change?
<dholbach> no idea
<dholbach> might be worth finding out
<mhall119> yeah, then we could avoid having to do anything for this in the future
 * dholbach nods
<dholbach> can you add the thought to the bug?
<dholbach> next up is a double pack of bugs: bug 596823 and bug 596826
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596823 in loco-directory "list teams by continent and country" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596823
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596826 in loco-directory "list venues by continent and country" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596826
<dholbach> it'd be FANTASTIC to fix them and as far as I can see it wouldn't be complicated as we have all that data already :)
<mhall119> venues is already grouped by country
<mhall119> would grouping it further by continent add anything?
<dholbach> I think it'd be nice
<dholbach> especially it we do the same thing for teams
<mhall119> ok, that'd be pretty simple for venues, just an additional regrouping
<dholbach> the list will get longer and longer, so maybe something like adding anchors at the top would help
<dholbach> and make the whole LD much more useful
<dholbach> especially with 100 release parties coming up :-P
<mhall119> the search function works pretty well for usability
<dholbach> I guess it helps if you make several offers to find something ;-=
<dholbach> ;-)
<dholbach> alright, that's all for the High importance bugs :-)
<dholbach> it'd be nice if we could get them sorted out in the Maverick time frame
<mhall119> commented on the venues bug
<dholbach> thanks mhall119
<dholbach> medium bugs
<mhall119> do we want to group teams by country, when most of the time there will be one per country?
<mhall119> or will by continent be enough
<dholbach> we should try continent first and then see how it goes
<dholbach> for the US it'd make sense to have country :)
<mhall119> ok
<mongolito404> mhall119: Ubuntu-fr is the LoCo for French speaking... while Ubuntu-be is a pure country based LoCo with no specific language (we use French, Dutch, German and English)
<dholbach> might be interesting to see how we deal with countries that span various continents
<dholbach> we should probably list them twice just to make sure
<mhall119> for the US, the list will only be 50 long, it's browsable
<dholbach> :)
<mhall119> mongolito404: that's a whole other issue, YoBoY brought it up a couple days ago
<YoBoY> yep
<dholbach> yeah and we have a bug report for that
<dholbach> so we'll get to it
<mhall119> you French guys are always complicating things ;)
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> yeah, want all their colonies listed and everything ;-)
<YoBoY> mhall119: it's why we rocks ;)
 * YoBoY hugs mhall119 
<mhall119> :P
<dholbach> alright, let's get to those bugs in a bit
<mongolito404> Yes but this highlight the fact there there is some multi-countries LoCos
<dholbach> mongolito404: yes, we're aware of that and we hope to solve it in a careful but pragmatic way
<dholbach> the most important thing to me is that users find teams and events easily
<mhall119> mongolito404: some yes, but that's a matter for the loco-council to figure out i think
<mhall119> we can implement it either way
<dholbach> alright, let's crack on
<dholbach> bug 523497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523497 in loco-directory "Logged in users can see Edit/delete button fÃ¼r global event but they can not edit/delete this event" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523497
<mhall119> I think I fixed that with the new theme
<dholbach> mhall119: can you close it? toabctl can reopen if necessary
<dholbach> bug 528829
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528829 in loco-directory "No field for 'state' in venue record" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528829
<mhall119> now only logged in LC members see links for managing global events
<dholbach> would definitely be nice
<mhall119> yes
<dholbach> afaik django even has the list of us states somewhere
<mhall119> this I would consider "High", actually
<dholbach> maybe we can factor that in somewhere
<dholbach> ok, done
<dholbach> takers?
<mhall119> adding it to Venue would be good too
<mongolito404> About "states", I've seen many implementation in the Druapl world that doesn't fit real world cases.
<mhall119> mongolito404: can you elaborate on that?
<mongolito404> In Belgium we have very special (and ihmo, stupid, but that's another question) country subdivisons.
<dholbach> we could think about special casing this just for huge teams like the US team
<mongolito404> The traditional subdivision used for "states" field in address are Provinces. But the country is so small that they have nearly no meaning for most users.
<mhall119> not just US, but even large countries with a single loco (for venues)
<mongolito404> Plus, and that's the trick, there is some place in Belgium that are not part of any Provinces.
<dholbach> it sounds to me like it should be an optional field
<mhall119> dholbach: for teams yes
<mongolito404> And I'm sure Belgium is no the only country with country subdivisions that don't map to the "clean" US-style "sates" concept.
<dholbach> ok, we have like 20 bugs left, maybe we should just limit ourselves to bug importance, missing tags and if we have takers for the bug? otherwise I'm afraid we'll be here even longer
<mhall119> mongolito404: if we give you a way to provide some for of sub-country identifier for a Venue, would you be able to use it as such?
<dholbach> particularly all the timezone/country/continent/state discussions take ages
<mhall119> dholbach: fine by me, we can continue in #ubuntu-locoteams for more indepth discussion
<YoBoY> geopolitical matters always take ages
<YoBoY> ^^
<dholbach> we don't want to get political at all
<mongolito404> http://www.geonames.org/ is a nice source for information about country subdivisons (as a web service)  but if used, the system must be ready to accept custom code for special cases (like Belgium).
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.geonames.org/ is a nice source for information about country subdivisons (as a web service)  but if used, the system must be ready to accept custom code for special cases (like Belgium).
<dholbach> but stay pragmatic and do the majority of our users a service :)
<mhall119> next bug
<dholbach> I think it's important that we briefly highlight bugs and if some of us find out they're interested in a bug, please just go and subscribe and have your say
<dholbach> and we can further discuss in #ubuntu-locoteams in the next hours and days
<dholbach> bug 540532
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540532 in loco-directory "Event Detail Page should link attendees to their LP profiles" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540532
<mhall119> that's one we need to ask the launchpad folks about I think
<mhall119> or the openid folks
<dholbach> yeah, I think there was a separate bug about that
<dholbach> can you tag "launchpad"?
<dholbach> so we have stuff we can pester the lp folks about
<mhall119> your fix will work in 99% of situations though, and i think that's enough to implment it
<dholbach> bug 552762
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552762 in loco-directory "LD needs to be able to allow for adding multiple locations for one event" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552762
<mhall119> I'm still not sure about this
<dholbach> me neither
<dholbach> needs-decision?
<mhall119> as described by czajkowski, I think having multiple events would be more appropriate
<mhall119> yeah, needs-decision
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> next: bug 579828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579828 in loco-directory "serialise add-event procedure (if venue does not exist)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579828
<dholbach> I have no idea how to do that - can we do that with crazy django decorators? :-D
<mhall119> that's where we want to add a popup on the add-event form to add a venue without leaving the event form
<mhall119> I've done it in the past, using a hack with the admin widgets, but it'll need some reworking to fit into LD
<dholbach> I'd be fine if form 1 â form 2 if the popup is too complicated
<mhall119> I'll take the assignment, but it'll take a while
 * dholbach hugs mhall119
<mhall119> I need to add that functionality to my work app anyway
<dholbach> we should do a renewed call for help, maybe have a LD bug of the month :)
<mhall119> so it's a good excuse
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> next: bug 579841
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579841 in loco-directory "Add user profile" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579841
<dholbach> larger piece of work, but probably nice to have at some stage
<dholbach> tagged with 'user' as all the other models.user ideas
<dholbach> next: bug 585306
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585306 in loco-directory "load Google Maps only where it's needed" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585306
<dholbach> should be easy to do, just a bit of confirmation here and there
<dholbach> I'll add bitesize
<mhall119> dholbach: I'm tagging the profile as needs-decision also, I think we should discuss it more on -contacts and -council
<dholbach> thanks mhall119, yes
<dholbach> next: bug 590091
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 590091 in loco-directory "Allow line breaks in the Venue information Comment field" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/590091
<mhall119> dholbach: that one may also be resolved in the new theme, I'll have to check
<mhall119> 585306 that is
<dholbach> mhall119: awesome
<dholbach> 590091 should be easy to do too
<rww> I'll take 590091
<dholbach> rww: thanks - can you assign to yourself?
<dholbach> if you need help, shout :)
<mhall119> rww: make sure it's not already working, I thought I submitted a fix for that a while back
<rww> mhall119: k
<dholbach> thanks guys
<dholbach> next: bug 599831
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599831 in loco-directory "Show upcoming global events on mainpage" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599831
<dholbach> would be very nice, our current mainpage is not useful at all
<mhall119> agreed, it shouldn't be difficult either, but not quite bitesize
<dholbach> yep
<mhall119> a good one for cjohnston ;)
<dholbach> next: bug 600134
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600134 in loco-directory "Signing up for an event is too long and non-obvious" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600134
<mhall119> I'm not sure it's all that difficult
<dholbach> yep, agreed
<ebel> I submitted that one
<rww> I'll grab 600134 too, it looks doable
<dholbach> use login decorator, change a few strings
<dholbach> :)
 * dholbach hugs rww
<dholbach> awesome
<mhall119> ebel: can we discuss it later in -locoteams?
<ebel> mhall119: sure
<dholbach> next: bug 601081
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601081 in loco-directory "Listing teams for approval at present is not accurate" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601081
<mhall119> sounds like something that should be updated in launchpad
<dholbach> I have no idea what this bug is about
<mhall119> I think launchpad currently lists teams and up for reapproval, but LC is only re-evaluating a subset of them
<dholbach> can you add that thought to the bug?
<dholbach> I think it'd be good to link to the reapproval page and explain what the page is about on the LD page
<dholbach> which should be easy to do
<dholbach> ok, next up
<dholbach> next bug: 601838
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601838 in loco-directory "On mainpage, link to /events/ /teams/ and /venues/" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601838
<dholbach> very easy to do
<dholbach> and we're done with medium bugs
<dholbach> let's try to do the rest in the next 23m - 2 hours is enough for this meeting :)
<mhall119> dholbach: I commented on it, but should it be marked as won't fix?
<dholbach> I'll leave that to you
<dholbach> next: bug 503939
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503939 in loco-directory "Resource links should have text" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503939
<dholbach> for somebody good with web ui stuff
<mhall119> I'll leave it open to add a link and explanation on the reapprovals pae
<dholbach> next: bug 510328
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 510328 in loco-directory "long listings are sorted cross-column" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510328
<dholbach> can we confirm we use the same in the whole LD and close the bug?
<mhall119> the bug specifically wants them sorted a different way, which I disagree with
<dholbach> that's fine
<dholbach> let's just make sure we use a similar style across the app and be done with it
<dholbach> next: bug 510572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 510572 in loco-directory "extend rss entries" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510572
<dholbach> somebody good with rss and data could fix the bug easily
 * dholbach adds bitesize
<rww> which page are those RSS feeds on?
<mhall119> the team pages
<dholbach> rww: if you go to a team's event page, it'll have the rss info in the header
<dholbach> or in the team page itself
<dholbach> it's not well-advertised
<dholbach> that should be fixed too
<dholbach> can somebody file a bug about that so we can discuss how we can do that?
<dholbach> next: bug 582571
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582571 in loco-directory "Formatting issue on Venue page" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582571
<dholbach> ah yes, that's still an issue, I think
<rww> Oh, I see. I'll take 510572 and file one for advertising RSS.
<dholbach> in the "None" section at the bottom of http://loco.ubuntu.com/venues/
<dholbach> rww: you're a rockstar!
<mhall119> dholbach: the venue doesn't have a name, that's a database fix
<dholbach> mhall119: oh ok, can you add that info to the bug? happy to "fix it" :-D
 * dholbach assigns
<mhall119> we currently have a "none" section for venues without a country, but if it has no name, it has no link text
<dholbach> also make the venue name mandatory
<dholbach> and I'll rename "None" too
<dholbach> can you add that to the bug too?
<dholbach> I'd fix them in the same go, or if you want can you file a separate bug?
<dholbach> I'll load up the next bugs then :)
<mhall119> sure
<dholbach> thanks muchly
<dholbach> ha, bug 582573 is fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582573 in loco-directory "Text not wrapping in Chromium" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582573
<dholbach> next: bug 599640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599640 in loco-directory "Add functionality to copy event to new" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599640
<dholbach> would be nice to have to pre-populate a form and have a "duplicate event" link
<dholbach> it's a bit of work, but not too much I guess
<dholbach> next: bug 599708
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599708 in loco-directory "displaying the #locoteams last 5 dents/tweets on main page" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599708
<mhall119> I think 582573 is fixed
<dholbach> I have no idea how to do that, and which API we'd use (remember we have to get IS to approve the installation of new packages and stuff) and if we can access it easily from the loco.ubuntu.com host (might have to get a hole poked in the firewall)
<mhall119> oh, I fail reading
 * dholbach hugs mhall119 :)
<mhall119> dholbach: not much work, I'll take it
<dholbach> but maybe we can just use raw HTTP/RSS and get it over a data center proxy
<ebel> dholbach: it might be possible to include a javascript widget for it? ie processing happens on the browser side?
<dholbach> erm instead of raw HTTP I meant "not use some crazy library"
<mhall119> 599640 that is
<dholbach> mhall119: awesome
<ebel> but then you have to pick one service (twitter or identica), which is a flaw...
<dholbach> ebel: that'd be a possibility too - can you add info about that to the bug report?
<dholbach> ebel: then we can decide it later on
<mhall119> dholbach: I was looking into a feed parsing library that will let us aggregate twitter and identica feeds for that
<dholbach> ok, if you can all add that info, I'd appreciate it
<dholbach> next: bug 600552
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600552 in loco-directory "Adding multiple tags to an event" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600552
<dholbach> definitely a needs-decision one, as it'd add various links and icons for all the tags to the page
<dholbach> I'm not too fussed over how we do it
<dholbach> next: bug 601928
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601928 in loco-directory "The list of countries in the field Location on a team page should be separated by comas." [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601928
<dholbach> another bitesize one
<dholbach> and we're done with low prio bugs
<dholbach> only just a few left
<dholbach> next: bug 526800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526800 in loco-directory "Allow more than team admins to manage events" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526800
<dholbach> a lot more work, I think right now we're doing quite fine with the model we use, so wishlist is appropriate methinks
<mhall119> I think that needs to be elevated above wishlist now
<mhall119> we keep getting requests
<dholbach> mhall119: because of abuse?
<mhall119> hmm, no, just people wanting it that way
<mhall119> maybe we should send out an inquiry to loco-contacts to see if it's necessary
<dholbach> they can implement it that way, if they like :-P
<dholbach> "patches are welcome" ;-)
<dholbach> no, I can see why a more careful member would like to have it
<dholbach> but as I said, I think it's a bit more work to get it in, schema-change, more LP checks, couple of views and templates need changing
<dholbach> so changes across the board
<dholbach> if you want to raise the importance, please go ahead
<mhall119> yeah, we'll need to pull sub-team info from launchpad too
<dholbach> yeah
<mhall119> I had some initial code for this, but the launchpad part was slow
<dholbach> bug 538177 definitely needs decision - it'd be nice to have, but we need to spec out very clearly, 1) what should be sent and 2) to whom, 3) how to configure it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538177 in loco-directory "Send Email updates" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538177
<dholbach> and that it's properly spec'ed out is not my requirement but that of IS
<mhall119> we need to make sure IS is okay with us sending out emails too
<dholbach> they want opt-out and a very obvious reasons for getting mail
<mhall119> I'm going to add sending tweets/dents to that one too
<dholbach> next: bug 539512
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539512 in loco-directory "Venue List Suggestion" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539512
<dholbach> it'd be nice if country/state info for teams could be used to pick venues :)
<dholbach> very nice
<mhall119> I like it, it would require some schema-changes and extra javascript/ajax magic on the front end
<dholbach> why js/ajax?
<mhall119> so we can display just associated venues by default, but allow for expanding the list
<dholbach> I thought that could be solved in the query in the view
<dholbach> ahhh gotcha
<dholbach> shall we add an ajax or javascript tag?
<dholbach> not sure if that helps any
<mhall119> by the time someone gets to the venue field in the events form, they won't want to refresh to get all venues
<mhall119> just ui
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> sounds great
<mhall119> fortunately, with the new JSON API, it should be much easier to implement now
<dholbach> next: bug 540384 - would be very nice
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540384 in loco-directory "Show Group/Individual participation on event page" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540384
<dholbach> Daviey: ^ :)
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Sorry, i had to take a conf call.
<dholbach> next: bug 559228 - would be nice too and a good mainpage candidate too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559228 in loco-directory "LoCo Directory should have the ability to have statistcs gathered from it" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559228
<dholbach> Daviey: that was your bug, just saying ;-)
<mhall119> cjohnston might like it, he was doing counts for events already
<dholbach> the stats bug probably needs some spec'ing out too
<dholbach> cjohnston, Daviey: maybe you can have a chat about 540384
<mhall119> yeah, with a mind towards what akgraner needs for UWN
<Daviey> cjohnston, That should be a good bug to tackle
<Daviey> sorry it fell off my radar
<dholbach> no worries
<dholbach> and we're done with Wishlist bugs
<dholbach> there's just untriaged or undecided bugs left
<dholbach> from top to bottom
<dholbach> next: bug 570638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570638 in loco-directory "translations not selectable on the website" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570638
<dholbach> personally I have no idea how to do that
<dholbach> shall we mark it Low?
<mhall119> for now, yeah
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> I'll mark it Triaged too as the problem is well-understood
<Daviey> hmm
<Daviey> it needs an implementable suggestion
<Daviey> Ie, cookie or flags at the top?
<mhall119> ideally we'd do it the way other pages do it
<mhall119> I'm just not sure how that is
<dholbach> ok, either I'll mark it confirmed or add a "research" tag?
<Daviey> hmm
<mhall119> hmmmm
<dholbach> I'd like research because it'd make a list of fun things to look at in the sparetime :)
<Daviey> I wonder if our friendly translations coordinator has a suggestion? :)
<dholbach> and new things :)
<dholbach> he's on holidays
<Daviey> bah
<dholbach> ok, research it is
<mhall119> okay, i'm okay with research
<dholbach> next: bug 571644
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571644 in loco-directory "French translation of the menu About LoCo Directory is too long" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571644
<Daviey> Hmm
<mhall119> I say we just fix the French language
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> ok, I'll just ask back if it's still a problem in the newest version
<Daviey> mhall119, It seems French is not a registered LP project? :/
<dholbach> maybe we can wrap
<mhall119> or maybe just as for a more concise translation?
<dholbach> can you follow up with those questions? concise? still a problem?
<dholbach> and mark it incomplete?
<Daviey> dholbach, it needs re-confirmation with the new UI
<mhall119> YoBoY: mongolito404: can that translation be made shorter?
<Daviey> "I have submited a shorter translation : "Ã propos de l'annuaire"" <-- mhall119
<dholbach> ok, let's ask for reconfirmation and crack on
<dholbach> can somebody update the bug?
<mhall119> ok
<YoBoY> mhall119: i already make a proposal, but with the new theme i don't have this bug anymore, the "about" is not translated
<mongolito404> Yep, "Ã propos de l'annuaire" is ok
<Daviey> YoBoY, bug fixed \o/
<dholbach> next: bug 574049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574049 in loco-directory "User referred to as "openiduser44" in event RSVP" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574049
<YoBoY> ;) i open back if it's appear again
<mhall119> that's the launchpad/openid issue we need to talk to someone about
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> it sucks
<mhall119> a good candidate for "research"
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> I added a brief discussion I had with the lads
<mhall119> what importance?
<dholbach> but I'll just add research for now and mark Medium?
<Daviey> yeah
<mhall119> right now, we've only had one instance of it pop up
<mhall119> but it's potential is much more severe
<Daviey> well that is because all the other users have LP accounts, not just Ubuntu SSO -right?
<mhall119> I think Medium will do for now
<mhall119> Daviey: yes
<rww> yup. I don't think it's a common condition, and that's the only time I've seen it
<mhall119> we assume that a successful openid auth means they also have a launchpad profile, and that's evidently not always true
<dholbach> I'll add research
<Daviey> yeah.. had the rug pulled out on us slightly there :(
<dholbach> next: bug 597592
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597592 in loco-directory "Allow team to import events from an iCal source" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597592
 * mhall119 blames statik 
<Ddorda> what's the bug # for the problem of changing language for the interface?
<mhall119> importing data is going to require a lot of spec-ing
<YoBoY> Ddorda: 570638
<Ddorda> rww: btw, i've subscribed you to the bug, as you asked
<rww> Ddorda: thanks
<Ddorda> YoBoY: thanks
<dholbach> mhall119: I'll mark it wishlist for now
<mhall119> tag it as research too
<mongolito404> mhall119: Whay a lot of spec ?
<dholbach> and events please
<mongolito404> s/Whay/Why ?
<dholbach> mongolito404: because when you import data it's always a security problem, etc.
<dholbach> mongolito404: hard to get right
<mhall119> mongolito404: automatically importing data opens us up to other concerns
<mhall119> what he said
<mongolito404> Importing from iCal should be pretty straigforward
<mhall119> as long as it's a good feed
<Daviey> Yeah, even LP for certain stuff review it before it's authorized
<mhall119> though there are differences between ical's capabilities and LD's capabilities
<Daviey> So it would need acking first, and tieing to a particular team
<dholbach> next: bug 600161
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600161 in loco-directory "event details includes unneeded full date and timezone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600161
<ebel> oh, mine again
<mhall119> Timezone is a known issue we've been avoiding, but I don't think displaying the date twice is all that bad
<Daviey> cjohnston, We had a discusion about this when you first started with the project, didn't we?
<dholbach> needs-decision, low prio
<Daviey> wishlist
<ebel> dates aren't localized either, i should file a bug...
<dholbach> next: bug 601683
<mhall119> ebel: yes, that's a known issue, we haven't figured out a good way of handling that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601683 in loco-directory "The choose of country should be optional" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601683
<mhall119> why?
<mhall119> oh right, France again
<ebel> mhall119: accept lang http header (if it exists?)
<mhall119> the idea of a local-community with a global footprint breaks a lot of our assumptions
<dholbach> I think with bug 601947 we should close 601683
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601947 in loco-directory "Add the language in a team detail page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601947
<mhall119> ebel: lang header for timezone?
<ebel> mhall119: oh I meant the date localization. Timezone data is in launchpad.
<YoBoY> mhall119: yes France again ^^
<mhall119> dholbach: they seem different to me
<mhall119> 601683 is because ubuntu-fr is something the France loco, and sometimes the Francophone loco
<dholbach> I think it addresses the main concern from a user perspective (which is the only thing I care about): that you can easily find teams of your country and events in your language :)
<mhall119> though, again, "francophone local community" is an oxymoron to me
<dholbach> mhall119: agreed
<dholbach> I'm happy to bump the language bug up to high and make sure we spec out language / online events for maverick+1
<Daviey> Well Chrome(ium) supports "requesting location", if that fails we could drop back to geoip :)
<dholbach> and won't fix the other bug
<YoBoY> not only, the bug 602438 is another effect of this mandatory choice, i can't choose realy France if i have to ignore the overseas french department
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602438 in loco-directory "Some countries have more than one territory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602438
<dholbach> let's talk about that in a bit
<YoBoY> ok, it's the bot :p
<dholbach> I'd really like us to focus on the user and how they find stuff
<mhall119> I think we need the LC's input on how to treat ubuntu-fr
<mhall119> dholbach: +1
<mhall119> I'm okay to closes 601683 if it was mainly about listing location
<dholbach> I'll take bug 601947 and bump that to high
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601947 in loco-directory "Add the language in a team detail page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601947
<dholbach> and make sure we make use of it in maverick+1
<dholbach> with that I think a lot of other "problems" can be dropped to low prio
<mhall119> ok
<Ddorda> looks like an Important feature
<YoBoY> mhall119: you can close it, it was opened more to port this problem to your attention
<Ddorda> IMHO anyway
<dholbach> ok, so what about 601683?
<mhall119> close it
<dholbach> ok, thanks
<Ddorda> never been in such a long session, trying to keep an eye on what's going on
<dholbach> next: bug 601944
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601944 in loco-directory "In a team detail page, the label column don't have a fixed width" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601944
<dholbach> Ddorda: we#re almost done
<mhall119> the screenshot doesn't look bad to me
<dholbach> ok, I'll add "teams ui", not sure what the problem is though :)
<mhall119> YoBoY: how would you want that displayed?
<YoBoY> open a team page : http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-fr if you don't see a difference... ;)
<mhall119> I just see "France" ;)
<YoBoY> the labels are no more on one line
<dholbach> yeah, one line is too much then
 * mhall119 is still confused
<dholbach> it could be more tight, with less space between the lines of listed countries
<dholbach> but that's all I see
<mhall119> oh, ok, I get it now
<dholbach> ok, please add that info to the bug
<mhall119> I thought that was just a chrome vs. firefox difference in the screenshot
<dholbach> next: bug 602438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602438 in loco-directory "Some countries have more than one territory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602438
<mhall119> sounds like a matter for the UN
<Ddorda> like what?
<Ddorda> Russia?
<mhall119> France again
<dholbach> Ddorda: countries with more than one continent is a problem already solved
<YoBoY> lol
<Ddorda> YoBoY: you're our problem! :D
<YoBoY> sorry ^^
<rww> perhaps there should be a 'france' tag ;P
<mhall119> dholbach: Russia team currently lists a dozen neighboring countries as part of it's team
<mhall119> rww: +1
<Ddorda> YoBoY: i'll accept that after i'll finish with your script for the CDs
<Ddorda> takes me too much time :S
<YoBoY> :p
<dholbach> ok, what is this bug about
<dholbach> that we should have a different or additional data source for our "countries"?
<YoBoY> it's about some countries have different territories around the world, in the country list this appear like countries if they have an iso code
<mhall119> I'm not sure, we already allow multiple countries
<dholbach> there must be an official list of countries, like something that everybody else (amazon, ebay, etc.) use
<YoBoY> i already pointed in the bug report a data source who fix this
<dholbach> YoBoY: how much entries does this give us?
<YoBoY> don't understand
<dholbach> you suggest that we use a new list for our list of countries
<dholbach> or list "territories" instead of countries
<dholbach> how much more entries would that be?
<mhall119> dholbach: I think currently those "territories" of France are listed as separate "countries" in LD
<YoBoY> no list countries, but real countries, actually your listing is based on iso_3166.xml and it's shoud be based on iso_3166_2
<Ddorda> mhall119: you can do something like "france: territory #1"
<mhall119> YoBoY: not necessarily, if a territory is geographically displaced, it might have it's own LoCo team
<Ddorda> YoBoY: sorry for numbering you, i just don;t know the nmames :P
<dholbach> ok, I'll mark it research and triaged for now
<dholbach> I realise that right now some people might fall through the cracks and that's something we should fix
<YoBoY> mhall119: yes should be great also to have teams on this overseas departement
<dholbach> BUT: I wouldn't like everybody to have to go through a list of every island or borrough in the world
<YoBoY> but it's not the case ^^
<dholbach> so, research
<dholbach> next: bug 603188
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603188 in loco-directory "one-time venue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603188
<mhall119> YoBoY: could you detail an implementation on that?
<mhall119> in the bug comments
<mhall119> the whole point of having venue records was so they could be kept and reused if desired
<YoBoY> hum... i can try
<dholbach> I'll mark it needs-decision and wishlist for now
<dholbach> next: bug 603189
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603189 in loco-directory "New description to "organizer" for events" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603189
<Ddorda> yo that's mine :P
<mhall119> maybe just add an option to delete venues?
<mhall119> 603189 bitesize ui
<mhall119> Ddorda can implement it
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> next: bug 603223
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603223 in loco-directory "Team page RSS feeds aren't well-advertised" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603223
<dholbach> Medium, ui teams bitesize
<mhall119> agreed
<dholbach> and with that we're done
<Daviey> \o/
<dholbach> 2,5h of loco-directory action
<mhall119> but a very very productive 2.5 hours
<Daviey> crieky o'reily
<dholbach> thanks so much everybody - this will give us all a lot of food for thought
<rww> I'll grab 603223 as well, since I'm doing the other RSS thing
 * dholbach hugs rww
<dholbach> rww: you're awesome
<mhall119> yes, thanks to everyone who participated
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody
<Daviey> thanks gatekeeper
<rww> dholbach: can you tell I found some free time recently ;)?
<dholbach> join us in #ubuntu-locoteams, grab a bug you like, talk to us, we'll help you get started
<dholbach> rww: it occurred to me :)
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:32.
 * dholbach hugs you all
<dholbach> time to take the dog for a walk
<dholbach> see you guys :)
<Daviey> dholbach, o/
<YoBoY> thanks dholbach :)
<MichealH_> How long until the forum council meeting?
<MichealH_> Is it in 30 mins?
<jacob> heh heh, just happened to check my mail and saw that it was today
<MichealH_> Good job I reminded you!
<jacob> indeed :D
<jacob> I believe it is 30 mins. 2200 UTC = 6pm EDT here
<MichealH_> 22:00 =23:00 here :P
<jacob> :o
<MichealH_> heh...Daylight savings...
<MichealH_> has just had problems with SSL :/
<MichealH_> 7 mins everyone
<MichealH_> It's time
<MichealH_> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=883491
<MichealH_> wron link
<MichealH_> *wrong
<MichealH_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<jacob> might want to wait a few minutes, then we can start pinging people
<MichealH_> Is anyone here?
<dmizer> Yup.
<dmizer> Meeting often starts a bit late.
<MichealH_> \o/
<MichealH_> Ahh... First time at these meetings ;)
 * jacob wonders what became of the idea of having the meetings in a forum thread
<MichealH_> Jacob: not in real time chat?
<MichealH_> waits
<jacob> MichealH_: the problem is that most of the time it's difficult to get everyone to show up at the same time (for anything on IRC, really). threads are easy to follow and easier to discuss
<MichealH_> Ahhh yes so it is...
<MichealH_> Is it usually this late?
 * dmizer thinks that forum thread meetings would be nightmarish to chair.
<jacob> dmizer: yeah, maybe so.
<jacob> ping Technoviking
<MichealH_> Jacob what about cariboo907
<cariboo907> I'm not an admin
<MichealH_> Ahhhh
<MichealH_> So mods = NO
<jacob> aye
<MichealH_> Admins = YES
<MichealH_> Is it always this late?
<dmizer> heh ... have patience.
<dmizer> ;)
<jacob> MichealH_: the scheduled time? depends. when everyone gets here..... echo dmizer :P
<MichealH_> has none
<MichealH_> Mind you it did say subject to change....
<MichealH_> It is 11PM here... trying not to fall asleep lol
<cariboo907> it's only 15:12 here :)
<dmizer> you got it easy ... i had to wake up 4 hours early.
<MichealH_> And you usually wake up at...
<dmizer> 4 hours later than this.
<dmizer> ;)
<MichealH_> 3 AM?
<dmizer> i'm in japan.
<MichealH_> calculates
<jacob> /grin
<MichealH_> ... It passes the time
<MichealH_> although I would like it served with garlic ;)
<MichealH_> heh
<MichealH_> Do you think it's postponed for another hour?
<jacob> we'd likely hear about it
<MichealH_> So it's a no?
 * dmizer waves the patience flag again ;)
<jacob> I mean, it's possible, but unlikely
<MichealH_> heh Patience is a virtue young grasshopper
<jacob> MichealH_: if this turns out to be a no-show, you can always mail your ideas to the FC list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil (I _think_ that address is correct)
<MichealH_> Okay
<Technoviking> sorry was in my datacenter
<dmizer> hey hey!
<jpds> Technoviking: It has no connectivity?
<Technoviking> jpds: it does, but I was working
<Technoviking> I miss that the meeting moved to this week
<dmizer> Technoviking: it appears that you were not alone ;)
<MichealH> Still no showup?
<dmizer> nothing happening yet.
<MichealH> Hmmmm...
<dmizer> hey bodhi!
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo dmizer , how goes ?
<dmizer> not bad. still rubbing the sleep out of my eyes ... heh.
<MichealH> Are we starting soon?
<bodhi_zazen> starting what ? Do we have enough people ?
<dmizer> don't think so. only you and Technoviking here atm.
<MichealH> I don't know but it is midnight here!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-09
<mohi1> Zach =]
<MichealH> Heh heh
<zkriesse> oh crap
<bodhi_zazen> Well, we could discuss issues, possible to act on some ?
<MichealH> What up Zachary?
<zkriesse> oh hey bodhi_zazen
<MichealH> Hates the iPod
<MichealH> Anyway...
<MichealH> Let's Go!
<zkriesse> Go where?
<bodhi_zazen> MichealH: Well, we can not really make a decision, but if you wish you may present your issue
<MichealH> It's not really an issue but Something else... I an requesting a 3 rf party forum.
<MichealH> *rf
<bodhi_zazen> Aye, but we do not have enough FC members here ATM to make a decision ...
<MichealH> An the 3rd party forum will be a place for Ubuntu Youth!
<jacob> MichealH: is "Ubuntu Youth" an existing project needing a forum, or are you suggesting a new section?
<MichealH> Ahhh...
<bodhi_zazen> They want a new forum
<bodhi_zazen> MichealH: I would guess the answer will be no
<bodhi_zazen> Unless it is an "official" project
<bodhi_zazen> Is your project supported by Canonical ?
<MichealH> I am sure that this is a official project
<jacob> found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuYouth, assuming this is the project page
<jdong> howdy
<MichealH> Well it uses and has used the Ubuntu
<jacob> jdong: woah, haven't seen you in forever
<zkriesse> hey again jdong
<zkriesse> jacob: that is the project page...(revamped by me)
<dmizer> jdong \o/
<MichealH> It has used the ubuntu trademark thing since 2007
<jdong> hi :)
<jdong> what'd I miss?
<jdong> (gah sorry, right in the middle of work hours)
<MichealH> Jdong: nothing much
<jacob> jdong: it's really just started, heh
<MichealH> So...
<bodhi_zazen> The "problem" is that we have limited resources on the server
<bodhi_zazen> The main focus is support and this seems almost a social group
<MichealH> I understand greatly
<bodhi_zazen> It is not up to me to decide, but you will need to justify why a forums is needed
<jdong> jacob: ok good, I'll be around :)
<bodhi_zazen> please understand we have lots of people interested in such things, we get requests for specific forms almost weekly
<MichealH> I was thinking of it being used as a foil do then if they had a problem with ubuntu then they can solve it with someone of a similar age group
<zkriesse> bodhi_zazen: In reality there is not a justifiable reason for this group to have a forum right now. MichealH was handed the group a short while ago but in that time there has not been much done with it..it's really an idle if not dead team
<bodhi_zazen> For example the Linux Terminal Server Project - That is support , but I am not sure if they would have enough traffic
<bodhi_zazen> to split from servers
<bodhi_zazen> thanks zkriesse
<MichealH> Decision?
<zkriesse> bodhi_zazen: The only reason I know this is because I'm giving MichealH a helping hand to get this "team" off the ground
<bodhi_zazen> As I said, the decision is not up to me, I am more trying to advise you what will likely be asked - justification
<MichealH> Only in terms of wiki/ Launchpad
<MichealH> This team has been dead 2 year now... But we are revamping with me on board.
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on the Ubuntu Youth forum ?
<bodhi_zazen> Otherwise, dmizer you want to add anything of polls ?
<zkriesse> bodhi_zazen: None from me at this time
<MichealH> We are slowly regaining... Popularity
<bodhi_zazen> MichealH: I will "bump" your agenda item to the mailing list see if I can solicit an answer
<zkriesse> bodhi_zazen: If i may, can you give me a pm when this is done?
<MichealH> Thanks bohdi also where us this mailing list?
<dmizer> sure bodhi_zazen ... just wanted to see if there would be support in the forum council for disabling polls in the support sections of the forum. Polls would remain in the community section.
<bodhi_zazen> I believe so, I would support the idea =)
<dmizer> i thought so. ;)
<zkriesse> Sounds good to me as well. If i may say so
<MichealH> Bodhi_zazen Where can I subscribe to the mailing lists
<bodhi_zazen> They are hardly ever used in support sections so disabling them makes sense
<bodhi_zazen> Prevents abuse
<bodhi_zazen> I doubt it MichealH
<dmizer> i also cannot see any good reason for having a poll in a support request.
<MichealH> Good idea!
<bodhi_zazen> I will  bump that to the ML as well dmizer , it seems we should be able to answer that via ML
<bodhi_zazen> thank you for adding it to the agenda
<MichealH> Bodhi_zazen is it only for staff?
<dmizer> sounds good to me. no problem bodhi_zazen.
<bodhi_zazen> As a subscription I believe so MichealH
<bodhi_zazen> Although if you wish you can post a mailing to it, asking about a youth forums
<bodhi_zazen> If you prefer, you can make your case
<MichealH> Ok will you make sure to PM me the result over the forums
<jdong> just for the record, I just caught up on the backlog
<jdong> and concur with the concerns raised
<MichealH> Yes,I will post to the lists...
<jdong> seeing that it's just bodhi and I here, mailing lists sound like a good idea
<MichealH> What's the email address?
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil
<bodhi_zazen> Anybody else wish to raise any additional items ?
<jacob> when's that staff party we're all raving about? ;)
<dmizer> here here
<bodhi_zazen> Tonight jacob
<bodhi_zazen> At your pad
<jacob> hah, if you can find it
<zkriesse> Party!
<MichealH> So... I will see if I can subscribe to your list
<jacob> MichealH: if you just send a message to it they'll get it, but you can't subscribe to it as its private
<jdong> no, you can't subscribe to it
<jdong> but you can send email to it that goes into a queue
<jdong> so be sure to cc: everyone that's not a member of the list but is interested in the discussion
<MichealH> How will I know the decision?
<bodhi_zazen> Well, it is a mailing list MichealH
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<MichealH> Ok but I never get replies from topics like I have done with lists before.
<MichealH> If I don't get to know the answer I can ask you to P
<bodhi_zazen> I do not recall you posting to the FC mailing list, but if you did, the admin may not have approved it, I am not sure
<MichealH> M me
<bodhi_zazen> yes, you can PM me on the forums if you like =)
<MichealH> No that was on another list!
<MichealH> That was a Ubuntu Loco list
<jacob> MichealH: then you'll want to send a message to the FC list as previously mentioned
<MichealH> Okay
<MichealH> Loves meetings!
<MichealH> Heh
<MichealH> I have one tomorrow
<MichealH> Heh
<jacob> MichealH: not sure if you're aware, but: "/me uses emotes" results in:
 * jacob uses emotes
<jacob> fun IRC tidbit of the day :P
<MichealH> Jacob my client doesn't support that considering I have a iPod that is doing t
<MichealH> *it
<dmizer> ipod fail! :-D
<jacob> ouch, how are you able to type on that? :P
<jacob> anyway, storms are getting pretty bad and the lights are flickering, I should probably shut this thing down
<jacob> later all
<zkriesse> bye jacob
<dmizer> later jacob
<bodhi_zazen> bye jacob
<MichealH> Very easy (with spell checks lol)
<MichealH> See ya Jacob!
<MichealH> So... What's on today?
<seb128> hey
<ScottK> Hello
<jdstrand> o/
 * fader_ waves.
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> yo
 * fader_ is filling in for marjo today.
<robbiew> time to make the donuts
 * mathiaz waves
 * apw waves
<robbiew> alright then....let's get rollin
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Team Reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Reports
<robbiew> [TOPIC] QA
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA
<fader_> o\
<fader_> Er
<robbiew> I don't expect any boot perf stuff today, btw
<fader_> * Hardware testing:
<fader_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader_> Laptops/Netbooks:
<fader_>     passed:  61 (92%)    failed:  0 ( 0%)      untested:  5 ( 8%)
<fader_> Servers:
<fader_>     passed:  59 (88%)    failed:  6 ( 9%)      untested:  2 ( 3%)
<fader_> Desktops:
<fader_>     passed:   8 (73%)    failed:  0 ( 0%)      untested:  3 (27%)
<fader_> * Boot performance
<fader_> Live and installed system boot chart information will be automatically
<fader_> generated as of today for both desktop and netbook images
<fader_> (As you say, no data yet today)
<fader_> * Blueprint status
<fader_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-maverick-alpha-3.html
<fader_> qa-maverick-improve-iso-tracker - 50% complete
<fader_> Remaining work items are on track.
<fader_> qa-maverick-mago-i18n - 0% complete
<fader_> Not started due to higher priority work items
<fader_> Any questions/comments/confusions?
<robbiew> qa-maverick-improve-iso-tracker - 50% complete
<robbiew> wow
<fader_> Yeah, I'm excited for that one to happen :)
<robbiew> apologies for tagging that at 0%
 * robbiew will blame the tools...because it's easier too :P
<fader_> Heh
<robbiew> thanks fader_
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Security
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jdstrand> We have no milestoned blueprints. Blueprints for the cycle are slipping due to high/complicated security update load. The team will look at postponements in the coming days and discuss at the upcoming sprint.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is continuing to make progress on security-m-tls-renegotiation-updates, our last remaining essential blueprint.
<jdstrand> kees' new LSM, 'Yama', was accepted by upstream and is now in the next tree and it is in the -7 Ubuntu kernel now. He has made adjustments for the kde crash handler (which was affected by the ptrace changes) to work with Yama.
<jdstrand> Firefox 3.6.6 was published last week for Hardy and Lucid. Jaunty and Karmic still pending due to openjdk-6. Packages have been uploaded to the mozilla ppa.
<jdstrand> sbeattie has been performing the TCK testing on openjdk-6 and is continuing to work with doko on this. sbeattie is also
<jdstrand> coordinating the work for the new 2.5.1 stable release of AppArmor (userspace).
<jdstrand> We have two milestoned bugs for alpha-3:
<jdstrand> bug #600549: mdeslaur is looking at it. may be a toolchain problem which needs help from doko
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600549 in m2crypto (Ubuntu Maverick) "m2crypto fails to build from source in maverick" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600549
<jdstrand> bug #596136: followed up with kees, who knows how to fix it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596136 in hardening-wrapper (Ubuntu Maverick) "package binutils-multiarch 2.20.1-3ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade:" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596136
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<robbiew> moving like a fine oiled machine as always....thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> sure :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel
<robbiew> apw?
 * apw appears
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  The burn down chart shows us slightly above the line currently:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04.html
<apw> From the agenda, kernel-maverick-apparmour we are making progress on the current bugs, upstreaming efforts are continuing the remaining items here are not release critical.  On kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ev2 there has been some good progress, we both have updated full xen patches ready for testing and it seems pv-ops may be back on the table.  On the bugs listed the first is still waiting on the reporter and not looking to be a general bug.  The DCHC
<apw> card iss is with TI curretnly.  The LVM issue we appear to have a fix moving upstream.
<apw> The maverick kernel has been rebased to v2.6.35-rc4 and uploaded, this brings fixes for a number of issues we have been seeing in the wild.
<apw> <done>
<robbiew> apw: thnx
<robbiew> questions for Kernel?
<robbiew> okey dokey then
<apw> (sorry not used to being at the top of the agenda :)
<robbiew> heh...you're always top in my book ;)
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Foundations
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<cjwatson> Updates above both for last week and this since I didn't notice until too late that last week's was cancelled. :-)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<cjwatson> Above the trend line in general, although we have a lot of work in progress so I do expect that to drop down in the near future, and especially at the sprint.
<cjwatson> At the moment we have several things awaiting upstream feedback from various quarters (GRUB, Python, probably kernel in the near future, etc.), and several big chunks of work on branches such as the installer redesign.
<cjwatson> We're also still picking up a lot of delayed merges, routine upstream updates, and the like.
<cjwatson> There's also a list there of our progress on test rebuild bugs; I'm glad to see we're not the only team with a big list there ...
<cjwatson> --
<robbiew> heh...yeah, that was fun to go through
<cjwatson> oh, and I have an ice cream.  yum.
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> questions for Foundations?
<robbiew> nice...moving on
 * jdstrand wonders if it is too early for an ice cream here. may be a flavor ice...
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Server
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server
<mathiaz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<mathiaz> for milestoned bugs:
<robbiew> jdstrand: it's never too early for ice cream ;)
<mathiaz> bug 572317
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572317 in image-store-proxy (Ubuntu Maverick) "image-store does not support images without a ramdisk" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572317
<mathiaz> not sure if it should be set to critical - waiting on gustavo to add support in upstream
<mathiaz> and bugs from the archive rebuild are being assigned
<mathiaz> for milestoned specs:
<mathiaz>  server-maverick-apport-hooks
<mathiaz> 20%
<mathiaz> On Track
<mathiaz> there is a whole bunch of other specs that are at 0% for now
<mathiaz> due to lack of timely update
<mathiaz> so - that's all from me
<mathiaz> sorry for being short - I'm filling up for ttx at the last minute
<robbiew> mathiaz: feel free to lower the priority on bug 572317
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572317 in image-store-proxy (Ubuntu Maverick) "image-store does not support images without a ramdisk" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572317
<robbiew> as it was opened by smoser and assigned to you all :)
<robbiew> so I'll agree with your team's judgment there
<smoser> mathiaz, it is critical.
<mathiaz> robbiew: righ - I'll lower it to high
<smoser> image store will not function on maverick images without these fixes.
<mathiaz> smoser: ok - we can discuss that later
<mathiaz> smoser: it's milestoned for alpha3 and we're keeping an eye on it
<smoser> and gustavo is aware.
 * robbiew will let the server team fight it out :P
<mathiaz> do you have any questions for the server team?
<robbiew> I don't...anyone else?
<robbiew> thanks mathiaz!
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Desktop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<seb128> .
<seb128> We didn't see lot of progresses for alpha3 items yet, several team members were at conference (rmll, akademy) or on holidays.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<seb128> The firefox security update went out for hardy, lucid and maverick and most of the work is over so we should get our webbrowser maintainer for some other tasks.
<seb128> The appmenu works seems working quite well now, we might switch UNE to not display menus in softwares but only in the indicator next week
<seb128> .
<seb128> The bugs assigned to our team are mailing build failures, some have been fixed already and others are under control to be fixed for this iteration
<seb128> that's it for Ubuntu side, ScottK has the update for kubuntu
<robbiew> yeah...sorry to alarm folks with all the ftbfs bugs...but just wanted to make sure they were known
<seb128> since Riddell is at akademy this week
<ScottK> Kubuntu status:
<ScottK> Desktop/Netbook ISO consolidation is complete, still need to clean up seeds and kubuntu-meta
<ScottK> KDE SC 4.5 RC 1 is uploaded
<ScottK> qmf and qtmobility are in the archive (qtmobility still in binary New)
<ScottK> All stop on armel due to qt4-x11 ICE (See Bug #603602)
<ScottK> Testing with the appmenu widget is going well, we plan to add it to the default nebook configuration for Alpha 3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603602 in gcc-4.4 (Ubuntu) "ICE building qt4-x11 on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603602
<ScottK> Kubuntu Ninjas are putting their moves on KDE SC 4.5 release candidate 2 tars which have just been released by upstream
<ScottK> We need doko for 603602
<robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to alert doko to bug 603602
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to alert doko to bug 603602
<ScottK> Questions?
<robbiew> thx seb128 and ScottK
<robbiew> [TOPIC] DX
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX
<seb128> njpatel, ^
<njpatel> hi
<robbiew> howdy
<njpatel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<njpatel> updated it with the latest statuses for the blueprints
<robbiew> njpatel: is that it? or are you multitasking
<robbiew> lol
<seb128> I think the summary is on the wiki ;-)
<seb128> njpatel, usually people give a summary on the channel as well ;-)
<njpatel> sorry, it's been some time since I've been in one of these meetings :)
<njpatel> Oh
<njpatel> So, netbook wise, things are good apart form the submenu bug
<robbiew> no worries, I can read
<robbiew> just wasn't sure if you were done :)
<njpatel> Sorry, I was expecting to answer some questions I guess :)
<njpatel> indicator-network is not going to be moving forward 'till platform sprint as kvalo is on holidays
<njpatel> the other indicator bits are in, but there are some bugs still to be ironed out with the appemnu stuff before we can switch off the native menubars
<robbiew> njpatel: do you think your team can address the 2 ftbfs bugs?
 * njpatel looks
<robbiew> or should I push them over to Desktop :P
<seb128> robbiew, give them to us
<njpatel> bah, do you have the links please?
<seb128> they don't have upload rights to ubuntu anyway
<seb128> njpatel, don't bother ;-)
<njpatel> seb128 doesn't trust me
<njpatel> :)
<seb128> robbiew, the clutter one is already fixed
<njpatel> seb128, okay, thanks :)
<seb128> the other one can be taken by desktop
<robbiew> sweet
<robbiew> thanks fellas
 * robbiew skips User Experience
<njpatel> thanks, I'll be better prepared next week :)
<robbiew> as I don't think anyone is here to speak on it
<robbiew> njpatel: heh...no worries
<njpatel> I can give it a shot for fits and giggles "Brown is the new Black"
<robbiew> lol
<ScottK> "Senior Canonical manager skips user experience, apparently not important" - News at 11.
<robbiew> [TOPIC] ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
<robbiew> ScottK: heh
 * ogra waves
<robbiew> to be fair, I didn't let her know
<ogra> Detailed status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Short summary:
<ogra> * omap kernel and preinstalled images enabled for alpha 2, daily builds for omap3 and omap4 are happening
<ogra> * ongoing bugfixing work for preinstalled images
<ogra>  * ongoing work on main ftbfs: directfb was fixed
<ogra>  * work ongoing on KDE/Kubuntu stack
<ogra> * working towards A3
<ogra> * improved-subarch-detection is currently blocked on cjwatson for review of design, and possible intergration with Debian.
<ogra> ...
<robbiew> ...and I'm not THAT Senior :P
<ogra> A3 Status:
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogra> (work only started last week so status doesnt look good yet)
<ogra> ...
<ogra> A3 targeted specs:
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-image-builds-without-root
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl
<ogra> (waiting for DX team (ted) on that)
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-omap-edid-autodetection
<ogra> ...
<ogra> A3 targeted bugs:
<ogra> bug 603604
<ogra> bug 591941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603604 in u-boot-omap3 (Ubuntu Maverick) "u-boot in maverick lacks proper XM support" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603604
<ogra> bug 601226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591941 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "SDHC card not recognized" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591941
<ogra> bug 600261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601226 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference in ppdev module" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601226
<ogra> bug 600359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600261 in Ubuntu CD Images "Need to calculate md5sums for arm preinstalled images" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600359 in ureadahead (Ubuntu Maverick) "ureadahead generating oom messages during boot." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600359
<ogra> bug 600487
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600487 in gnome-session (Ubuntu Maverick) "system fails to launch netbook-launcher-efl on arm system" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600487
<ogra> questions ?
<robbiew> none from me...anyone else?
<robbiew> thnx ogra
<robbiew> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<ogra> thx
<robbiew> nothing there...but I never skip them ;)
 * robbiew sucks up to ScottK a bit
<ScottK> Heh
<ScottK> FTBFS numbers are still climbing, so that's a bit concerning
<ScottK> Once sparc dies things will get better, but pleanty of other things to do to
<ogra> dyfet is supposed to also look at universe if his time permits
<ScottK> Nothing major to report, but while people are looking at FTBFS, Universe needs help ...
<ogra> so you should have some help with the arm ftbfs
<ScottK> ogra: Great, because armel is next on the list after sparc.
<ogra> (not sure how much his time permits though :) )
<ScottK> That's it.
<ScottK> Sure.
<robbiew> thnx ScottK
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Derivatives
<MootBot> New Topic:  Derivatives
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Linaro
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro
 * lool waves
<robbiew> o/
<lool> No Jamie?
<lool> Well we had a release meeting yesterday for Linaro
<lool> Some infrastructure specs are not on target, but that doesn't affect Ubuntu; apart of that things are getting in shape
<lool> The key spec impacting Ubuntu is the Toolchain
<lool> Which is slated for release next Tuesday https://launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+milestone/4.4-2010.07
<lool> (the toolchain is produced by a group which has monthly releases, hence the monthly milestone)
<lool> We're getting there
<lool> Sadly, doko's DSL had issues, so we still have a couple of things to discuss with him just to make sure he is happy with the deliverable
<lool> But we're confident that the Tuesday release will be ready for inclusion as gcc-4.4/armel
<lool> in Ubuntu
<ogra> optionally, right ?
<lool> We hope it will be the default toolchain in armel
<ogra> or do i have to expect 1mio ftbfs
<lool> Nah
<ogra> k
<lool> we did a test rebuild on x86
<lool> the two serious issues are bugs on the list
<lool> and we try to fix them for Tuesday
<lool> (before inclusion anyway)
<ogra> great
<robbiew> cool
<lool> doko started an armel rebuild, but that's very slow
<lool> we're getting hardware RSN though
<lool> I think that's the most intrusive event for Ubuntum the other specs are less intrusive as I understand it
<lool> https://wiki.linaro.org/Releases/WeeklyReleaseMeeting/2010-07-08 are the notes from our meeting
<lool> well, sorry, that's where the notes will appear once they get uploaded  :-)
<ogra> *grin*
<lool> questions?
<mathiaz> lool: bug 579909
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579909 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu Maverick) "mysql fails to build form source with Linaro and CodeSourcery toolchains" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579909
<mathiaz> lool: are you guyz looking into that?
<lool> mathiaz: Yes, it's on the milestone list I mentionned earlier
<lool> mathiaz: however, note that it was split in two
<lool> there is actually a genuine mysql FTBFS in maverick
<mathiaz> lool: ok
<lool> and an earlier failure with linaro diff
<lool> We will work on the linaro failure first and on other bugs for this milestone
<lool> and on the second failure best effort
<lool> but we're taking help on the second one
<ogra> does the change imply a full archive rebuild btw ?
<lool> mathiaz: Oh sorry, that's the mysql one, that one is 100% linaro specific
<lool> the perl one is the one with a maverick and a linaro leg
<lool> mathiaz: so yes, we're looking at that one for sure
<lool> ogra: We'd like to rebuild as much as possible once the toolchain has lived in the archive a bit
<mathiaz> lool: ok - thanks
<lool> ogra: I think similarly to the lucid rebuild
<ogra> lool, ok, so there is at least a lot of arch any/all breakage ahead for the images
<lool> except I think we should hopefully have more hardware for the rebuild this time around, and more people helping fix regressions
<ogra> i just want to be prepared
<lool> ogra: These rebuilds will be uploaded by hand, I guess it will be "far away" from Alpha releases
<lool> and more to the near of the end of the cycles
<ogra> ok
<lool> *cycle
 * ogra has no more questions
<lool> Thanks; I think we can move on
<robbiew> thnx lool
<lool> pleasure
<robbiew> [TOPIC] 10.04.1
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.1
<robbiew> no real change in the milestoned bugs
<robbiew> mathiaz: could you look at bug 551130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551130 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu Lucid) "infinite loop in /etc/init/mysql.conf if mysqld is not running." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551130
<robbiew> or at least someone from Server
<mathiaz> robbiew: sure
<robbiew> I think zul is in the know
<zul> indeed
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
 * robbiew knows the next UDS location...but can't announce until the contract is signed :D
<ScottK> robbiew: Can you give us a timezone?
<robbiew> EST
<ScottK> Cool.
<robbiew> okay that's it
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:55.
<zkriesse> Is there anyone here who could maybe help me get MootBot in my channel its #ubuntu-beginners-wiki (Ubuntu Beginners Team Wiki channel)
<vish> zkriesse: have you tried asking in -irc ?
<zkriesse> ah good point..no i have not yet asked there
<nigelb> @time
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 09 2010, 18:30:26
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-10
 * Pici looks around
<topyli> irc council meeting?
<topyli> are we here? Pici nhandler jussi01 tsimpson ?
<Pici> I suppose
<topyli> hi
<Pici> I'm not sure if Jussi is going to make it
<topyli> i know he's busy, been popping up on irc from time to time
<ts2> mostly
<topyli> hi ts2
<ts2> I wont be too active, as it takes forever to type ;)
<topyli> you can say "yeah!" and "no!" and vote :)
<ts2> yeah!
<topyli> :)
<Pici> woo
<topyli> i can chair if nobody feels ambitious, but i'll probably only do the chores some time tomorrow
<Pici> Fine with me
<topyli> okay
<topyli> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:09. The chair is topyli.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<topyli> [TOPIC] Review the Mentoring  page for approval/rejection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review the Mentoring  page for approval/rejection
<topyli> i had a look today and fixed a couple of typos. what's the "conclusion" section supposed to contain?
<topyli> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Mentoring
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Mentoring
<ts2> I'm not too sure, i dont think we need it
<Pici> I'm not sure, do we even need it?
<topyli> i'll be happy enough without it
<ts2> it was just there from the first template
<Pici> I don't think the page needs any further explanation, its pretty clear without anything else.
<ts2> we have used it, and linked to it already
<topyli> otherwise, i'm ok if we just bless it, and we can of course modify if needed
<topyli> editing out the empty section first of course :)
<ts2> if someone wants to action editing it, and then we can approve on merit
<topyli> i can edit it
<Pici> edited.
<topyli> so we vote?
<ts2> yeah! ;)
<Pici> Sure!
<topyli> [VOTE] approve the mentoring page
<MootBot> Please vote on:  approve the mentoring page.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ts2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ts2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<topyli> #endvote
<topyli> uh
<topyli> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<topyli> Pici: can you edit again, remove the draft label?
<Pici> topyli: doing so now.
<ts2> Pici: and uncomment the category
<topyli> thanks. that's that
<topyli> [TOPIC] Burnout strategy for operators
<MootBot> New Topic:  Burnout strategy for operators
<topyli> this is jussi's item
<ts2> this is something we'll find difficult to make policy for
<topyli> i agree with that on priciple, but i don't know how to suggest vacations for ops
<topyli> i know how to say "you need a time out" but i don't know how to make it official
<ts2> well, we can force the "time out", but I'd really hate to do that
<Pici> I'd like to think our ops are understanding enough to take the time off when we suggest it to them
 * st33med gets out the dunce cap
<st33med> Time out!
<ts2> we need to create a culture where we trust each other to tell usually when we appear tense
<topyli> we could have something on the operator guidelines about monitoring your fellow ops' stress levels
<topyli> exactly
<Pici> hmm
<ts2> it should be a self-enforced thing, where the council would only get involved when extream situations zrise
<ts2> *arise
<Pici> I'm not so sure about that.  I think that any operator should be free to come to any ircc member with a report if they don't feel comfortable for some reason telling another op about it.
<Pici> Stress can make people less receptive to critisim.
<ts2> true
<ts2> we can always act as a proxy for such things
<ts2> it is, after all, our responsibility to maintain the ops team
<topyli> but i don't want a policy where we encourage ops to come to the council for everyday troubles. if we write down a standard path like that, people will take it instead of actioning themselves
<ts2> i think part of the issue is that -ops is public
<ts2> we (ops) cant have a "quite word" easily
<Pici> Then we should encourage private messaging these sort of things then.
<ts2> -e
<topyli> indeed those discussions are better off channel
<jussi01> o/
<jussi01> sorry Im late
<Pici> Hey Jussi
<jussi01> one idea I had on this, which may actually be a dud, but still worth thinking about is some sort of "timeout" ever 6/12months.
<ts2> because it's such an individual thing, that may be difficult
<jussi01> even if you dont think you need it/ dont need it, it still isnt such a bad thing
 * Pici hmms
<topyli> on the other hand, our real jobs have mandatory vacations you *have* to take, because otherwise some people would never take one and just die at office
<jussi01> exactly the concept Im thinking of
<Pici> My job doesn't have that.
<topyli> oh. it's the law here
<Pici> I think we should encourage people to take time off from IRC, but I'm against forcing it.
<ts2> personally i think we need a culture change rather thanalysis pure polucy
<Pici> ts2: agreed
<jussi01> how are you envisioning changing the culture?
<ts2> silly auto compleation
<jussi01> I dont think it should be pure policy, but I do think policy should be part of it
<ts2> jussi01: there is no easy way, but it's the way i think it _should_ be
<Pici> Education is a good way to alert people of burnout
<jussi01> perhaps it could be a non enforced, but scheduled thing. If we schedule the holidays, and say, that while you dont have to take it, we encourage you too.
<ts2> we need some policy to inforce it if absolutely needed
<ts2> but pure policy will not work
<jussi01> and actually do it ouselves also.
<topyli> how about "please take a time out sometimes" in the guidelines, with an addititional "the ircc may enforce a timeout" or something along those lines?
<ts2> it'll be difficult to arrange holidays for ops and keep time-zones filled
<ts2> at a minimum, a lot more admin
<Pici> How do you suppose that we would enforce a timeout? Remove operator privleges? Bans?
<Pici> I don't like the sound of it myself.
<topyli> jussi01: we have a limited term anyway, ops are theoretically forever
<ts2> time out schould be encouraged, right now i think theres a bit of a tabu about it
<ts2> which is why i talk about culture
<jussi01> ts2: exactly, hence my suggestion of scheduling them, making them somewhat "official"
<jussi01> which can be easily managed with a script that interfaces with LP.
<Pici> I don't think we need a technical solution for this.
<ts2> not sure if a script should be used
<ts2> it should be 90% culture, backed up with 10% policy
<jussi01> perhaps having a simple sign up sheet, where people can advise that they will not be around?
<jussi01> and encouraging people to take holidays, along with some burnout education?
<ts2> sure, we need some notification system
<jussi01> Perhaps the burnout education can be included in the ops hours we have been talking about?
<Pici> Replace the sign out sheet with a calenar, where people can mark when they're taking time off.
<Pici> *calendar
<jussi01> we did have something like that planned for the bt2
<jussi01> Pici: +1
<Pici> We did?
<jussi01> Pici: kinda, I suggested it - think its on the gobby doc
<jussi01> so for now, perhaps just a shared google calendar?
<Pici> I think thats a good first step.  It'll be useful anyway to know when people are taking extended time off.
<jussi01> how long are we suggesting people take off=
<jussi01> ?
<ts2> maybe just giving people the opitunity to msrk their time off will be a catalist
<Pici> ts2: I agree
<ts2> i think at least 2 weeks in the year, but its individual
<jussi01> so, an amendment to the op guidelines and a shared calender then.
<topyli> a message on the ML too, to advertise
<jussi01> shall we have a vote on it?
<Pici> Whats the amendment going to say?  Just encourage time off to fend off burnout?
<ts2> people dont realise how critical time off is for our ops
<jussi01> Pici: with an encouragement to take at least 2 weeks
<Pici> jussi01: okay, as long as we're not forcing it.
<topyli> it should also encourage ops to try and recognize burnout signs in others and to talk to them
<jussi01> es
<jussi01> topyli: +1
<Pici> sounds good to me.
<topyli> we can work on the wording later
<ts2> i think if we talk to eachother more about it, it wll become less of an issue
<jussi01> agreed
<topyli> ok, let me figure out something votable :)
<topyli> [VOTE] amend operator guidelines to encourage sufficient time off, and create a calendar system for ops to mark time off
<MootBot> Please vote on:  amend operator guidelines to encourage sufficient time off, and create a calendar system for ops to mark time off.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<ts2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ts2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<topyli> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<topyli> [ACTION] council to work on guidelines amendment
<MootBot> ACTION received:  council to work on guidelines amendment
<topyli> that's not a real action is it :\
<jussi01> not really :P
<topyli> let's admit it's not actionable yet :)
<topyli> anything else?
<jussi01> topyli: you can action someone to get the calendar done.
<jussi01> but not me, as I always screw gcal up
<jussi01> Ill work on the amendment
<Pici> I wouldn't mind putting together the email once we have the other two things done.
<topyli> hrm. we can't use the ircc calendar
<topyli> i'll create a new one, let's figure out how we get it shared with all the right people
<ts2> if only lp had a calendar ;)
<topyli> [ACTION] jussi01 to draft ops guidelines amendment
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jussi01 to draft ops guidelines amendment
<topyli> [ACTION] topyli to create vacation calendar for the ops team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to create vacation calendar for the ops team
<Pici> I suppose we could use LP to send out an email to our operator teams... or we should have a separate operator mailing list.
<jussi01> I think it has to be limited to ops in the core chans, otherwise it gets too big, no?
<Pici> Right
<ts2> it's always a good idea for all ops, but core ops are usually under more presur
<jussi01> ok, so any new bugs? any stadard items we need to follow up on?
<topyli> no new bugs
<Pici> I think that was a productive meeting.
<topyli> we could encourage other teams to create similar systems
 * ts2 closed the guadex(?) bue earlier
<topyli> for their ops
<topyli> ts2: oh yea, so we have 50% less bugs!
<topyli> Pici: indeed
<ts2> yeah!
<ts2> :)
<topyli> hehe
<topyli> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:59.
<jussi01> excellent!
<jussi01> good meeting, sorry I missed some
<jussi01> laters
<topyli> i'll do the standard chores tomorrow, it's late
<ts2> Mr. Burns returns
<Pici> excellent
<topyli> thanks guys :)
<ts2>  please don't make me type anymore :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-04
 * ogra_ wonders if popey noticed the return of karl larsen ...
<popey> i did
 * popey wonders who let those mails through
<popey> (It wasnt me)
 * persia waits for maco to take charge
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> Looks like the agenda wasn't refreshed after last meeting
<persia> Does that mean that the only item before us is confirming that we all read my email until the TB gets back to us?
<Laney> I think there's #2 too.
<Laney> and confirming that #3 is deferred
<persia> If so, I'll recuse myself, as I already imposed my voting system on everyone once, and don't feel strongly enough that it's the only working system to argue it, as the apparent lack of comprehensibility seems to count against it.
<persia> Ah.  I'm happy to sit for the interview for #2: I certainly need more information than I'm finding to have a strong opinion.
<Laney> From what I read of your summary, it's what I understood practice to be anyway.
<Laney> I certainly don't find it confusing anyway
<persia> Thanks :)
<persia> But I presume some folk find it confusing, or there wouldn't have been such discussion about it.
<Laney> I suppose that it's never been written down in a permenant enough place led to varying interpratations being held
<persia> Probably.  Mind you, I'm all in favour of us having varying interpretations of the necessary criteria to approve applications, but the system only works if we agree on what we mean when we vote.
<Laney> right
<Laney> anyway, I'll go back to writing slides in the absence of a quorum. ping me if people show up :-)
<persia> From what I see on the mailing list, we need 4 to decide on #2.
 * persia is tired, and decides to review the interview log later, if an interview happens
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-05
<lifeless> persia: when are we meeting?
 * Daviey ponders
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Who is here for the -server meeting?
<jamespage> Daviey: I think you might be early?
<Daviey> crikey.. you are correct.  I'm working on UTC today it seems, you are on UTC+1
<jamespage> lol
 * patdk-wk is still here from the last -server meeting
<Daviey> o/
<m_3> hola
 * utlemming is here for the -server meeting
<adam_g> \o
<smb> o/
<jamespage> o/
<sommer1> o//
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<serge_> \o
<Daviey> smoser: around
<Daviey> ?
<Ursinha> hai
<Ursinha> o/
<Daviey> serge_: Is your net suitable to drive, as it looks like smoser is absent?
 * serge_ waits another minute for smoser to come and take charge
<Daviey> splendid!
<utlemming> I though smoser is out for a couple of days
<serge_> well we have Daviey and Ursinha  and myself, did i miss more waves?  or do we not have a quorum?
<utlemming> At least that is what the calendar says
<serge_> np, i'll run it.  if it's worth running
<jamespage> o/
<serge_> zul: around?
<zul> yep
<Daviey> serge_: please do.
<serge_> don't see adam,
<serge_> well, allright
<serge_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:05. The chair is serge_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<serge_> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<serge_> sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation
<serge_> sommer1: \o
<serge_> hm, guess i'll defer
<sommer1> serge_:  Still working on that :-)
<serge_> ah.  ok.  any sort of progress to report in the meeting notes?
<serge_> [ACTION] sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued)
<sommer1> serge_: unfortunately there isn't any news at this time
<serge_> sommer1: ok, thanks
<serge_> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<serge_> over to Daviey
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Hoping everyone has recovered from last week, where many of us got together to try and sort out some issues.
<Daviey> Short one this week.
<Daviey> Our generic overview is:
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> (notice the rise)
<Daviey> Alpha 2 is this week.  We should strive to all take it for a spin, and report bugs as neccessary. Note, that handling our incoming bug count is a priority.  However, feature development also needs tackling.
<Daviey> I imagine most people are aware of work they need to undertake, but please give me a ping if you are in any way uncertain.
<Daviey> Thanks all!
<serge_> worth an action?
<serge_> [ACTION] all: test alpha2
<MootBot> ACTION received:  all: test alpha2
<serge_> why not
<serge_> onward then
<serge_> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<serge_> any to bring up?
<serge_> team-wide hangover week?
<Daviey> Nothing of major interest is jumping out at me.
<serge_> ok, moving on
<serge_> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<serge_> hggdh: around?
<serge_> hopefully enjoying some r&r.  moving on
<serge_> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Nothing in particular to bring up
<smb> but open to questions
<serge_> any questions for smb?
<serge_> ok, thanks.  moving on,
<serge_> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<serge_> NCommander: around?
<Daviey> NCommander: on holiday
<Daviey> (is on)
<serge_> thx :)  moving on
<serge_> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<serge_> any issues/updates/issues to bring up?
<serge_> those crickets are too loud
<serge_> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<Daviey> Well
<Daviey> m_3, utlemming and Ursinha ... welcome to the team!
<m_3> new guy says hi
<m_3> Daviey: thanks
<Daviey> Joining the ranks of the Server Team this month were Ben Howard (utlemming), who will mainly be tasked with building upon the success of the cloud images. Mark Mims (m_3), who is already knee deep in ensemble (additionally sporting the best side burns in the team). Ursula Junque (Ursinha) joined as the defect analyst (poached from Launchpad QA), and is already doing a great job of showing us where we fail.
<RoAkSoAx> m_3: utlemming Ursinha welcome!!
<serge_> welcome!
<Ursinha> thanks!
<jamespage> welcome to the team guys!
<utlemming> excited to be here (well, virtual here anyway)
<serge_> i gather the sprint rocked?
<Daviey> serge_: sure did!
<serge_> alrighty, let's wrap this one up
<serge_> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<serge_> Tuesday 2011-07-12 at 1600 UTC
<serge_> (had to check my calendar :)
<serge_> thanks all.
<serge_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:18.
<Daviey> (shortest meeting ever)
<jamespage> \o/
<smb> Lets see whether we can beat that today with our speedmaster away... :)
<apw> smb, oh we can do fast
<smb> No doubt on that. Though not the usual people this time. So it may be a tad slower
<apw> you are assuming i will wait for you :)
<smb> heh
<smb> Given that list you have to wait for the ouput queue to drain at least. :)
<apw> it seems unlikely we will set a new record
<apw> i am not usain bold
<apw> i am not usain bolt
 * cking notes we need to type faster
<ppisati> o/
<herton> o/
 * smb counts down the last minute
<cking> o/
<kamal> \o
<smb> o/
<Daviey> o/
<apw> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is apw.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<apw> ##
<apw> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<apw> ##
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<apw> # Meeting Etiquette
<apw> #
<apw> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<apw> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<apw> #
<apw> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Kernel development: usual CVE fixes across different branches.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: we reached an agreement with agreen/linaro to get the TI BSP on top of a vanilla kernel, as a result a new oneiric/master-next-based kernel is in the work - see git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ppisati/ubuntu-oneiric.git ti-omap4-next. Still a WIP, kernel panics on boot ATM, do not use.
<ppisati> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Regressions (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics and Incoming Regressions (smb)
<smb> === Release Metrics ===
<smb> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
<smb> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<smb>  * 30 linux kernel bugs (up 10)
<smb> ==== Ubuntu oneiric-alpha-2 bugs ====
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
<smb>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<smb> ==== oneiric-updates bugs ====
<smb>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<smb> ==== natty-updates bugs ====
<smb>  * 24 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<smb> ==== maverick-updates bugs ====
<smb>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<smb> ==== lucid-updates bugs ====
<smb>  * 8 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<smb> ==== hardy-updates bugs ====
<smb>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<smb> === Incoming Bugs ===
<smb>  * 33 oneiric bugs (up 5)
<smb>  * 1367 natty bugs (up 21)
<smb>  * 1119 maverick bugs (up 3)
<smb>  * 1036 lucid bugs (up 4)
<smb>  * 39 hardy bugs (up 1)
<smb> === Regressions ===
<smb> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<smb>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<smb>  * 5 natty bugs (no change 0)
<smb>  * 43 maverick bugs (up 1)
<smb>  * 81 lucid bugs (up 2)
<smb>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<smb> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<smb>  * 1 oneiric bugs (up 1)
<smb>  * 447 natty bugs (down 3)
<smb>  * 246 maverick bugs (down 1)
<smb>  * 224 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<smb>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<smb> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<smb>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<smb>  * 2 natty bugs (no change 0)
<smb>  * 1 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<smb>  * 0 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<smb>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<smb> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] BluePrint: other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  BluePrint: other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review (apw)
<apw> The remaining work items here are all tasks to review and upstream patches;
<apw> apw, lag, manjo, rsalveti, and tgardner please review your item and push
<apw> it out to oneiric-alpha-3 if you are not going to complete it this week.
<apw> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] BluePrint: other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  BluePrint: other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours (ogasawara)
<apw> Nothing outstanding for oneiric-alpha-2.
<apw> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] BluePrint: other-kernel-o-server-requirements (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  BluePrint: other-kernel-o-server-requirements (smb)
<smb> Xen items done
<smb> seccomp in progress
<smb> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Status: Development Kernel Team (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Development Kernel Team (apw)
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<apw> Overall we are progressing well, the kernel is stabalising nicely and
<apw> regressions and bugs seem tractable at this time.  We have a number of
<apw> outstanding tasks for oneiric-alpha-2 which likely will slip further,
<apw> most are upstreaming tasks and as such not release critical.
<apw> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Development kernels - Oneiric (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Development kernels - Oneiric (apw)
<apw> The oneiric kernel is currently at 3.0-3.4 which is based on 3.0-rc5 from
<apw> mainline.  As well as the mainline kernel update this kernel also dropped
<apw> the ARM versatile flavour which is deprecated.
<apw> We are in milestone freeze for oneiric-alpha-2 which releases this upcoming
<apw> thursday.  We expect to upload an upstream 3.0-rc6 kernel as soon as the
<apw> freeze lifts.
<apw> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (herton)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (herton)
<herton> The commits responsible for the known regressions in Lucid and Natty
<herton> were identified, so their kernel packages are not being held anymore. So
<herton> everything is progressing so far in the SRU workflow process.
<herton> Status now is:
<herton> * Hardy: kernel in -proposed is in verification. One bug remaining to
<herton>   be verified.
<herton> * Lucid: Currently in verification. In the end of verification phase it
<herton>   should progress to qa/regression testing and for security-signoff.
<herton> * Maverick: Currently in verification. No regressions so far. Two bugs
<herton>   remaining to be verified.
<herton> * Natty: Passed verification, security-signoff done. Waiting for
<herton>   regression-testing to start, and going through certification testing.
<herton> * Current SRU status is here:
<herton>   http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<herton> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (herton)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (herton)
<herton> ||
<herton> || Current Kernel versions are always available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<herton> ||
<herton> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<herton> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<herton> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-29.90         || 2.6.24-29.91         ||    4 ||        3 ||
<herton> || lucid    linux-meta-lts-backport-natty     ||                      || 2.6.38.10.20         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-316.31        || 2.6.32-317.34        ||    3 ||        3 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-lts-backport-natty          ||                      || 2.6.38-10.44~lucid1  ||    1 ||        1 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.32.24         || 2.6.32.33.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.30.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-30.54~lucid1  ||   21 ||       21 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.32.38         || 2.6.32.33.39         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-32.62         || 2.6.32-33.69         ||    3 ||        3 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-32.32         || 2.6.32-33.33         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.316.17        || 2.6.32.317.18        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || maverick linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-416.33        || 2.6.32-417.34        ||    6 ||        6 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.32.416.6         || 2.6.32.417.7         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-firmware
<herton> ..
<apw> herton, that looks to be truncated ...
<herton> || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-30.54         || 2.6.35-30.55         ||    2 ||        0 ||
<herton> || natty    linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || 2.6.38.1209.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    ||                      || 2.6.38-10.6          ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-firmware                    ||                      || 1.52.1               ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> || ---      linux                             ||                      || 2.6.38-10.46         ||   15 ||       15 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
<herton> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                      || 2.6.38.10.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<herton> ||
<herton> ..
<herton> sorry, indeed it missed the last part
<apw> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<apw> o/
<apw> If you have any work items for oneiric-alpha-2 please review them and push them out if they are not going to make it.
<apw> ..
<apw> ok thanks everyone
<apw> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:07.
<cking> nice one
<kamal> thanks apw
<mmgc84> hello :)
<di3gopa> mmgc84, hello =D
<emont01> hello di3gopa and mmgc84
<di3gopa> =D
<emont01> big day di3gopa,I hope that everything goes well
<di3gopa> emont01, thanks!!
<emont01> I am next, hope so!
<emont01> :D
<di3gopa> emont01, yeah!
<Menopia> Hi all
<emont01> Hi Menopia
<Menopia> emont01, When the meeting will start :)
<cyphermox> still 45 minutes to go afaik
<Menopia> ok
<mmgc84> hello di3gopa y emont01
<di3gopa> mmgc84, :)
<mmgc84> estaba dormido :)
<di3gopa> xD
<mmgc84> se habla espaÃ±ol en esta sala??
<alucardni> mmgc84: por el momento, cuando empiece la reuniÃ³n solo "inglish"
<elopio> mmgc84: yo hablo espaÃ±ol :)
<highvoltage> good evening
<emont01> eso pensÃ©, gracias por aclararlo alucardni :D
<MichealH> Hey highvoltage
<alucardni> emont01: ;-)
<Processingqbits> Assalamu Alaikum?
<thelinuxer> Processingqbits: wsA :)
<di3gopa> wut
<thelinuxer> di3gopa: it means peace be upon you :)
<mmgc84> que se hizo elopio ?????
<di3gopa> thelinuxer, oooh nice!
<Processingqbits> :D
<elopio> mmgc84, _o/
<mmgc84> que nota elopio x)
<thelinuxer> When should the meeting start ?
<highvoltage> stgraber, cyphermox, nhandler, ogra_: it's time!
<cyphermox> o/
<highvoltage> Welcome to this month's EMEA Regional Board Meeting.
<highvoltage> Candidates will be able to present themselves one by one in order of the agenda on the wiki page.
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<highvoltage> Only board members can vote.
<cyphermox> I should be here for a fifteen minutes now, then probably on my phone or so.
<highvoltage> If you'd like to show your support for an applicant, please wait until it is their turn.
<highvoltage> Candidates should prepare an introduction of 1-5 sentences and also have a prepared wiki page for their application.
<highvoltage> ok thanks cyphermox
<highvoltage> do we have quorum?
<Menopia> Hi all again...
<popey> hello highvoltage
 * nhandler is here
<highvoltage> oops, sorry popey I accidentally left you out
<popey> :D
<stgraber> I'm around though quite busy, so if we can get quorum without me that'd be great, otherwise I'll try to be around to vote
<ogra_> same here ... A2 on the horizon is not a good time
<highvoltage> popey: can you drive LP?
<popey> heh
<popey> as in add members?
<highvoltage> we have quorum for now so let's start
<highvoltage> popey: yep
<popey> sure
<highvoltage> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:05. The chair is highvoltage.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] Menopia
<MootBot> New Topic:  Menopia
<highvoltage> Menopia: you're up, please tell us about yourself
<Menopia> Ok
<Menopia> My name is Islam Wazery .. I am a Game Developer now and a Student of Computer Scinece faculty.
<Menopia> and I am trying as much as I can to be an active member in the Egyptian LoCo team which I joind in 2010 (its actual revival date :D).
<Menopia> I am participating with them in every event we do .. like install fests, release parties Ubuntu Hours & code jams and all of the team meetings.
<Menopia> I try to design all the neccessary desings for the team events .. the artwork page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Artwork.
<iulian> Oups, forgot again.  Sorry I'm late guys.
<Menopia> Also I am trying to convince as much peapole as I could with the Open Source and Free software philosophy, including my colleagues and successfully presuaded my Head of the Department to use free software in our college and to include them in our curriculum and it was not easy at all so we made an event (install fest) in our college which he attended and offerd a lab to be ours :) in order to install Ubuntu and free software on it and use it freel
<Menopia> y to give sessions.
<nhandler> Menopia: I see you are part of the Desktop Bugs team. Do you do any triage work?
<Menopia> are you cheking my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wazery?
<highvoltage> iulian: you're just in time
<Menopia> I am trying to participate in launchpad ... but to be honest not as the real life participation with my LoCo
<nhandler> Menopia: Have you thought about helping out with the Ubuntu Artwork team ?
<Menopia> Actually I did and I have some designs that I published
<popey> What was the content of the course you designed? Is the content publicly available?
<Menopia> yes I will try yo make it available for you
<Menopia> just a minute
<popey> did Cairo University use the content?
<highvoltage> Menopia: from your wiki page I see you've done very broad work. is there something you have done as part of the Ubuntu project you're particularly proud of?
<highvoltage> (broad as in, broader than ubuntu specifically)
 * njin testing
<Menopia> I am trying to do some bug reporting and participating with the artwork team
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~al-wazery not a huge amount of bug work.
<Menopia> yes as I said my main work is Locally with my LoCo team
 * highvoltage has no other questions
<Menopia> the course link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Events/2010-07-03-SummerTraining?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Cairo.odp
<popey> thanks Menopia
<highvoltage> ready to vote?
<nhandler> Yep
<highvoltage> [VOTE] menopia
<MootBot> Please vote on:  menopia.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +0 [ good effort and great feedback from peers, but would like to see more work done within the ubuntu project itself ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mgamal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mgamal. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<popey> grrr
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 4
<highvoltage> mgamal: only EMEA RMB members may vote
<highvoltage> count: +3
<mgamal> sorry :)
<cyphermox> gah, I fail. sorry, mine would be +1 ;)
<highvoltage> cyphermox: ah sorry
<highvoltage> count is +4 then
<kim0> +1
<highvoltage> [AGREED] +4 for Menopia, welcome and congratulations
<MootBot> AGREED received:  +4 for Menopia, welcome and congratulations
<nhandler> Congratulations Menopia
<thelinuxer> Menopia: congratulations Menopia :)
<amahdy> Congrattts =)
<EgyParadox> Congratulations
<popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
<elopio> I wuold love to have this shirt. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Artwork?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=t-shirt2-small.png
<mgamal> congrats menopia :)
<cyphermox> keep up the work :)
<kim0> Menopia: woohoo \o/
<Menopia> Thanks all :D
<TheNightPhoenix> yahoo congrats menopia
<Processingqbits> congrats Menopia
<atourino> congratulations Menopia
<elopio> congrats Menopia
<UrikPA> congratulations :D
<iulian> Yikes.
<ashams> Menopia: congratulations Menopia :)
<mmgc84> :) congrats Menopia
<popey> haha, yeah, nice shirt
<cyphermox> elopio: indeed, that's a nice shirt
<highvoltage> is laoshi present?
<Menopia> I will try my best with the Ubuntu project itself :D
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] njin
<MootBot> New Topic:  njin
<popey> you missed one highvoltage ?
<popey> oh, i see
<highvoltage> njin: please introduce yourself
<njin> Hello sorry i'm burning a cd
<njin> well i'm an active testing member, bug triager etc
<highvoltage> aparently :)
<ogra_> heh
<njin> :(
<njin> why?
<nhandler> njin: Any plans to go for Bug Control?
<ogra_> and you have a nice testimonial from pedro too :)
<popey> I have no questions.
 * ogra_ neither
 * iulian neither.
<popey> nice amount of karma you have there
<njin> yes, is on my plan, but i'm evaluating because pidgin isn't an easy package
<highvoltage> njin: since you're burning cd's even during the meeting :)
<njin> iis full of plugin and i've to think well before
 * nhandler is ready
<highvoltage> [VOTE] njin (note: RMB members may only vote)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  njin (note: RMB members may only vote).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<njin> i'm testing and t
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cyphermox> +1
<highvoltage> +1 [ great QA work ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<popey> fantastic iso work, and lots of lovely karma
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<iulian> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<popey> \o/
<njin> oops,
<njin> i love you guy
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<popey> Congratulations!
<njin> thanks
<njin> thanks
<popey> Awesome work, keep it up!
<njin> sure
<aeperezt> njin, congrats
<highvoltage> [AGREED] +7 for njin, congratulations and welcome!
<MootBot> AGREED received:  +7 for njin, congratulations and welcome!
<di3gopa> njin, congrats
<UrikPA> congratz njin
<njin> i'm ubuntu now
<popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
<elopio> Congratulations njin.
<AlexoGeek> njin, congrats man
<mmgc84> congrats! njin
<highvoltage> [TOPIC[ mmgc84
<nhandler> Congrats njin
<mmgc84> me??
<highvoltage> mmgc84: hi, could you please introduce yourself?
 * leogg is here cheering for mmgc84 
<mmgc84> Hi there
<mmgc84> :) my name is Marcelo Gutierrez
 * elopio is part of mmgc84's fan club.
<mmgc84> current Nicaragua's LocoTeam
 * di3gopa it is to =D
<di3gopa> too*
 * madgab too :)
 * alucardni is here to cheer for mmgc84 
<mmgc84> and I've been spreading ubuntu even in my dreams
<highvoltage> great, any questions for mmgc84?
<popey> yes
<popey> mmgc84: what is the biggest challenge as the loco team leader?
<mmgc84> well
<mmgc84> Try to get more people involved
<popey> motivating them?
<mmgc84> but we are doing a lot
<mmgc84> we have new projects comming
<nhandler> mmgc84: Of your many contributions, what are you the most proud of?
<mmgc84> you give me the chance to explain about Floss and Ubuntu to someone and that's it
<mmgc84> I do it because I love it
<popey> :D
<mmgc84> did I answer your question?
<popey> yes
<mmgc84> :)
<highvoltage> anything else before we proceed to vote?
<mmgc84> well
<atourino> mmgc84: nhandler had a question
<mmgc84> ok please go ahead
<nhandler> 1309897608 15:26:48 < nhandler> mmgc84: Of your many contributions, what are you the most proud of?
<mmgc84> my lectures
<mmgc84> that's the answer
<nhandler> Definitely a veryimporant form of contributing
<mmgc84> thanks
<highvoltage> [VOTE] mmgc84 for Ubuntu membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  mmgc84 for Ubuntu membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<iulian> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<highvoltage> +1 [ very active loco work where it's much needed ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<popey> Awesome loco work, keep it up!
<leogg> mmgc84, felicidades mercucio!
<highvoltage> cyphermox: still with us?
 * nomada is mmgc84's fan too...
<mmgc84> :)
<LoKoMurdoK> congratulation!! mmgc84
<mmgc84> :) we will make the Loco better
<mmgc84> :)
<highvoltage> not that it makes a difference :)
<alucardni> mmgc84: felicidades prix!!!
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<elopio> mmgc84: felicidades compa.
<popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
<mmgc84> gracias a todos por estar aquÃ­
<jdflorezPA> mmgc84: felicidades :)
<highvoltage> [AGREED] +6 for mmgc84. congratulations and welcome
<MootBot> AGREED received:  +6 for mmgc84. congratulations and welcome
<DexterNica> mmgc84: Felicidades compa!!!
<MichealH> Well done mmgc84
<emont01> congratulations!
<UrikPA> congratz mmgc84
<highvoltage> nice bunch of cheerleaders you have too :)
<LoKoMurdoK> :O
<mmgc84> thank you :) I will make them proud
<LoKoMurdoK> :)
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] elopio
<MootBot> New Topic:  elopio
<highvoltage> elopio: Hi, please introduce yourself
<elopio> hello.
<elopio> My name is Leo Arias. I'm from Costa Rica.
<leogg> I'm here cheering for the great elopio as well! :)
 * di3gopa cheering elopio!
<elopio> I work in quality assurance.
<mmgc84> I'm here cheering elopio
<elopio> and I've been trying to help ubuntu for some years now.
<popey> ooo openbravo, cool project
 * amonthoth congrats elopio
<elopio> I love the philosophy of sharing, and this amazing tool makes it a lot easier.
<emont01> cheers elopio
 * jdflorezPA cheering for elopio too :)
<madgab> cheers elopio :D
<popey> great to see so many people here cheering !
<ogra_> ++
<iulian> Indeed.
<nomada> +1
<highvoltage> elopio: why motu at end of 2012 and not end of 2011. you can do it!
<elopio> popey: Central American brothers and sisters :)
<popey> haha
<elopio> there is a lovely community here. You should visit us
<popey> Yes! I should!
<elopio> highvoltage: I have other goals that I think are more important.
<elopio> but I'll give it a try
<elopio> :)
<leogg> elopio has done an amazing job with the Central American website ---> http://ubuntu-centroamerica.org/
<popey> How will you increase participation in the loco elopio ?
<MichealH> elopio: Nice to know people test the quality and stbility of Ubuntu :D
<elopio> popey: there are a lot of people using ubuntu in costa rica. But they are not part of the loco, they are from other communities
<popey> elopio: how will you reach out to them?
<elopio> so we will try to invite them and promote participation during activities.
<elopio> install fests, parties, sprints.
<popey> excellent
<LoKoMurdoK> cheering elopio blessing
<elopio> popey: I'll write to the communities they are part of.
<elopio> that's the easy part. The hard part is to get them to launchpad.
<highvoltage> anything further before we vote?
<iulian> Heh.
<iulian> elopio: Good luck with that!
<iulian> highvoltage: Ready to vote here.
<popey> elopio: what's the bigger issue in costa rica, access to broadband, or the cost of software?
<popey> (or something else)?
<elopio> popey: neither. I think that is education.
<leogg> iulian, actually that's not so hard ;) ---> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-centroamerica
<popey> woah, nice size team
<iulian> Hm, I see, thanks leogg.
<popey> i have no other questions
<highvoltage> [VOTE] elopio for Ubuntu membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  elopio for Ubuntu membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<iulian> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> great motivational work, keep going!
<highvoltage> +1 [ great loco work ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<iulian> Yup.
<highvoltage> stgraber, ogra_
 * popey tickles cyphermox too
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<highvoltage> cyphermox said that he'd have to go after a while, I'm assuming he's done so
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<elopio> woohoo \o/
<leogg> elopio, cervezaaaaaa!! :)
<elopio> thanks board members and cheerleaders.
<popey> yay!
<jdflorezPA> elopio: felicidades! Pura vida mae :)
<highvoltage> [AGREED] +6 for elopio, congratulations and welcome!
<MootBot> AGREED received:  +6 for elopio, congratulations and welcome!
<di3gopa> elopio, congratis!!!
<LoKoMurdoK> pura vida blessing
<alucardni> Felicidades elopio !!!!
<elopio> leogg: aquÃ­ hay una para vos :)
<dMaggot> elopio: congrats!
<mmgc84> congrats elopio x)
<leogg> elopio, ;)
 * aeperezt bien eliopo
<UrikPA> congratz elopio  :D
<popey> (added to ~ubuntumembers)
<LoKoMurdoK> xD
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] di3gopa
<MootBot> New Topic:  di3gopa
<elopio> beers for everybody at my house!
<LoKoMurdoK> cheering di3gopa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! blessing
<highvoltage> di3gopa: Hi, please introduce yourself
 * leogg is the president of the di3gopa official fan club! Go PanamÃ¡!
<mmgc84> I'm here for di3gopa!
<di3gopa> hello highvoltage :) ok
 * aeperezt cheering di3gopa
<di3gopa> Hello everyone I am Diego Tejera, i have a software development company based on free/libre software
 * elopio go di3gopa go.
<emont01> cheers di3gopa!
 * jdflorezPA cheering for di3gopa
 * AlexoGeek is for cheering di3gopa 
<di3gopa> I have been involed with our local team since 2008 and in charge of the teaml since 2010. I have been actively helping to spread ubuntu in my country, i would really like to be an Ubuntu member to have some representation on our contry and help to make our community bigger.
<madgab> cheers from El Salvador di3gopa :D !!
<UrikPA>  /me cheering di3gopa go di3gopa go :D!
 * di3gopa thanks everyone for cheering :)
 * kacm cheers for die3gopa! 
 * amonthoth heil di3gopa
<popey> :D
<highvoltage> di3gopa: your wiki page lists the work you do outside of the ubuntu community
 * UrikPA go di3gopa
<popey> I can never quite get my head around how many people from around the world come together to cheer for someone :D
<highvoltage> di3gopa: but it's sparse on what you do *inside* of the ubuntu community
<highvoltage> di3gopa: could you perhaps tell us a bit more about your work as part of the ubuntu community?
<di3gopa> highvoltage, sure
<popey> http://diegotejera.org/?p=26 is a nice example highvoltage
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://diegotejera.org/?p=26 is a nice example highvoltage
<di3gopa> highvoltage, i have been actively working to spread ubuntu in my country
<di3gopa> and and charge of allmost of the artwork we do here
<di3gopa> an example -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/39581720@N03/sets/72157623870565283/
<di3gopa> http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll12/dihego/ubuntu-pa.jpg
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll12/dihego/ubuntu-pa.jpg
<emont01> I have to say di3gopa has organized many events here in PanamÃ¡.
<di3gopa> we have got lots of new users because of these activities
<highvoltage> di3gopa: in your blog you say that people are very excited about ubuntu at the events but that they forget very quickly afterwards. do you have any advice for people who are running their own ubuntu events on how to maintain enthusiasm?
<elopio> excuse Me. Please let me add this one: http://diegotejera.org/?p=5 di3gopa was in the beginning. That meeting is the reason we are all here :)
<MichealH> I will BRB people
<di3gopa> highvoltage, i think that they should get attendants emails and try to involve them in the activities
<di3gopa> to let them help so they can fill part of the community
<di3gopa> aeperezt, teached me that :)
<di3gopa> feel*
<leogg> I agree with elopio... di3gopa has been *very* active in the Central American Ubuntu community
<highvoltage> yep, that's indeed very important
<MichealH> (back)
<LoKoMurdoK> Diego is a excellent person, promoter of free software in Panama and Central America. If you need help he will be there to support you. Is planner events for the community of free software. It is gratifying that we have people like him in the community.
<di3gopa> Thanks LoKoMurdoK :)
<dMaggot> just wanted to add briefly, b4 the votes
<highvoltage> any further questions or comments before we vote?
<dMaggot> a testimonial that is hard to put in words in a Wikki
<dMaggot> besides di3gopa's being there since the begining
<dMaggot> (and I think everyone here from flosspa, kacm ayaita UrikPA has received Ubuntu support from him)
<dMaggot> he has been there for the floss commmunity in the ups and downs
<dMaggot> and in the same spirit of Ubuntu
<dMaggot> he has kept us united after all
<mmgc84> :)
<jdflorezPA> di3gopa helped me install my ubuntu for the first time
<di3gopa> thanks dMaggot :)
<dMaggot> so if the council is to appoint anyone here in Panama, that should be him
<popey> jdflorezPA: and you're still using it? :D
<highvoltage> you'te going to make di3gopa cry here :)
<highvoltage> [VOTE] di3gopa for Ubuntu membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  di3gopa for Ubuntu membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<aeperezt> lol
<di3gopa> highvoltage, hahaha yes
<UrikPA> I have to say that di3gopa introduced me to ubuntu too
<atourino> di3gopa: is working on a cure for cancer
<atourino> i swear
<atourino> :D
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<highvoltage> +1 [ great loco work and great feedback from other loco team members ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<iulian> +1
<PzPpma> greetings
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<leogg> di3gopa, felicidades!!
<LoKoMurdoK> congratulation di3gopa
<jdflorezPA> popeye: yes
<mmgc84> whoop whoop
<mmgc84> :)
<LoKoMurdoK> blessing
<highvoltage> [AGREED] +6 for di3gopa, Congratulations and Welcome
<MootBot> AGREED received:  +6 for di3gopa, Congratulations and Welcome
<popey> as I said before, we greatly value people from the loco turning up to cheer their friends like this
<atourino> congrats :)
<dMaggot> di3gopa: there you go dude!
<PzPpma> +1  4  di3gopa
<UrikPA> congratz di3gopa
<dMaggot> hahaha
<di3gopa> thanks everyone!! really thanks :D
<PzPpma> woohoo!
 * dMaggot hails di3gopa once again xD
<BlackFile> di3gopa felicidades
 * jdflorezPA hails di3gopa
<di3gopa> thanks!!!
<iulian> Congratulations di3gopa.
<PzPpma> congratz di3gopa!
<emont01> congrats di3gopa!
<elopio> felicidades. Ahora sÃ­, el siguiente paso es que ubuntu estÃ© bajo dominio centroamericano.
 * amonthoth congratulations for diegopa
<mmgc84> jajajaja x)
 * kacm congrats di3gopa! :D 
<highvoltage> central america is in the house tonight!
<atourino> w00t w00t!
 * iulian nods.
<di3gopa> highvoltage, haha yes
<popey> di3gopa: is member 701 of ~ubuntumembers, elopio was member 700 :D
<di3gopa> really thanks everyone :D
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] GunnarHj
<MootBot> New Topic:  GunnarHj
<emont01> yeah highvoltage!
<alucardni> popey: we are centralamerican brothers and sisters ;)
<atourino> you're all invited to come and visit!
<atourino> :D
<GunnarHj> Hi all, I'm Gunnar Hjalmarsson, a Swedish fellow living in Gothenburg.
<GunnarHj> Relatively new in the community - started to use Ubuntu a year ago.
 * UrikPA congratz di3gopa
<GunnarHj> I like the sharing concept, and I have been involved in patching and bugfixing the desktop.
<PzPpma> hi to dMaggot & UrikPa
 * amonthoth sawa bona, di3gopa
<di3gopa> :)
<PzPpma> welcome GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> Thanks!
<GunnarHj> (Sorry for being late to the meeting, btw.)
<popey> you're not late
 * highvoltage notices some language related uploads on https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+related-software as well
<GunnarHj> Ok. :)
<highvoltage> GunnarHj: how did you get involved with translations? is there anyone you're working with? have you ever arranged any translation related events locally?
<GunnarHj> As regards translations, the Swedish team don't want any new members for the time being.
<highvoltage> how so?
<GunnarHj> Suppose they are enough # to handle it.
<GunnarHj> I think the Swedish translation team is one of the most active in the community.
<GunnarHj> So I have instead worked centrally so far.
<highvoltage> any further questions or comments for GunnarHj?
<iulian> Nothing from me.
<nhandler> +0/me is good
<highvoltage> [VOTE] GunnarHj for Ubuntu membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  GunnarHj for Ubuntu membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<popey> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<popey> i'd like to see some more sustained contributions
<highvoltage> +0 [ good translations work, but would like to see more co-operation and integration with the ubuntu community ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<popey> maybe some testimonials?
<sabdfl> hi all, CC when you're done
<ogra_> +0 [i'm with popey (especially on teh testimonial bit]]
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<stgraber> +0 [some testimonials would have made that a +1]
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 0
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 6 abstained. Total: 0
<GunnarHj> Ok, how should I interprete this?
<highvoltage> [AGREED] +0 for GunnarHj.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  +0 for GunnarHj.
<highvoltage> GunnarHj: you didn't get membership this time. But we value your contributions and hope you apply again at some point in the future
<GunnarHj> I see. Would some testimonials help?
<highvoltage> GunnarHj: there are some comments and suggestions above, taking that in consideration will help you in a future application
<highvoltage> GunnarHj: testimonials will help a great deal.
<iulian> GunnarHj: Definitely.
<highvoltage> sabdfl: sorry we're almost done
<GunnarHj> Will do. Thanks for your time. Will apply later on. BFN
<highvoltage> [TOPIC] MichealH
<MootBot> New Topic:  MichealH
<sabdfl> no worries
<MichealH> Hey
<MichealH> :D
<highvoltage> MichealH: I think there are some RMB board members who haven't met you yet, could you introduce yourself?
<MichealH> Hi I am Micheal Harker, You sould know me by now... (joke). I am a 14 year old Ubuntu Contributor, I beleive that my age does not restrict my activities on Ubuntu, and here I am today, I develop websites and software ,do IRC Stuff, I admin teams and I am the first one to call when people make teams. I would like you to view my (beautiful) wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichealH
<highvoltage> MichealH: also, do you remember how many times you've applied for membership before?
<MichealH> 7... or so :P
<MichealH> Its not the amount of tries that count :P
<highvoltage> what have you changed or done since you last applied for membership?
<MichealH> Quite a bit of stuff
<MichealH> I have helped administrate many teams lot more
<MichealH> I now try and get People intrested in Ubuntu AT :)
<MichealH> Daniel0108 can tell you how great of a Admin I am :)
<Daniel0108> Yeah, I have to admit that MichealH is the best admin I've ever seen and a funny and enjoyable guy. He helped us to set up the Ubuntu Austria LoCo team, even if he is not from Austria. Thank you :D
<MichealH> I have spoken to my UBT Apprentice and I am going to soom put him towards UBT Membership
<highvoltage> No one has any questions or comments for MichealH?
<highvoltage> MichealH: in the meantime, can you expand on what admin work you've done?
<MichealH> Sure
<MichealH> I need to brb though
<MichealH> Gimme a mo
<highvoltage> we can't wait long, since we're running into another meeting already
<MichealH> Yeah
<MichealH> Okay
<MichealH> I help with projects outside of Ubuntu
<MichealH> They benifit Ubuntu in some way, shape or form
<MichealH> They benifit FOSS
<MichealH> I have been elected as a IRC Operator on FOSSNet.... Which avocates Ubuntu highly
<MichealH> They do challenges that you can only do on Ubuntu
<MichealH> :)
<highvoltage> popey, nhandler, stgraber, cyphermox, ogra_, iulian: ready to vote?
 * iulian is ready to vote.
<MichealH> I also help on TouchLay
<MichealH> Daniel0108 can tell you that if you like
<popey> hmm
<popey> Ubuntu membership is more about (as I'm sure you're aware) a sustained and significan contribution to _ubuntu_ itself
<Daniel0108> yeah, we at TouchLay use Ubuntu for everything :) We're also trying to get an Ubuntu partnership established, but that's another thing ;)
<Daniel0108> popey: he also contributes actively into the Ubuntu Austria LoCo :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: sure
<popey> Daniel0108: in what way?
<Daniel0108> popey: he does all the admin stuff
<popey> "admin stuff"?
<MichealH-iPod> Oh man, I lost connection
<Daniel0108> MichealH-iPod: explain them what you do at Ubuntu Austria :)
<MichealH-iPod> I am their software leader
<popey> what does that even mean?
<Daniel0108> MichealH-iPod: ubuntu austria, not TouchLay ;)
<MichealH-iPod> I develop apps for the Ubuntu Platform for TouchLay
<Daniel0108> popey: he set up the IRC channel and some bots for us, at Ubuntu Austria. He is basically the maintainer of #ubuntu-at
<MichealH-iPod> May that be web or desktop
<MichealH> I have a meeting bot for them there
<popey> ok
<MichealH> The bot is highly wanted there
<highvoltage> ok, I think it's time we call a vote unless there's any objections?
<MichealH> And its a official irc bot
<MichealH> (Sorry for the disconnect)
<highvoltage> [VOTE] MichaelH for Ubuntu membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  MichaelH for Ubuntu membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<popey> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<popey> I am failing to see sustained and significant contribution
<iulian> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from iulian. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<highvoltage> I'm really tempted to give him the benefit of a doubt, he's been really enthusiastic about membership and has contributed for a while.
<MichealH> I will now be on my iPod
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<MichealH> Need to go from the laptop
<highvoltage> +0 [ good contributions but we need to see more evidence of sustained contributions on the membership application ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<ogra_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_. 0 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -1
<highvoltage> nhandler?
<MichealH> So its a no :(
<highvoltage> MichealH: indeed. I'd like to add that a little patience might go a long way.
<MichealH> Okay
<highvoltage> MichealH: I don't think you should apply for membership at consequitive meeting either. why not take a few months to really build up your ubuntu profile the best you can? and then apply again
<highvoltage> s/meeting/meetings/g
<MichealH-iPod> Yeah
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
<MichealH-iPod> I just try to help
<popey> thanks highvoltage
<MichealH-iPod> The best I can
<highvoltage> [AGREED] -1 for membership for MichealH
<MootBot> AGREED received:  -1 for membership for MichealH
<highvoltage> MichealH-iPod: great. keep at it
<highvoltage> thanks everyone, that concludes the meeting. congratulations and welcome to all the new members.
<iulian> Thanks highvoltage.
<stgraber> thanks highvoltage
<elopio> sorry guys.
<highvoltage> elopio: np!
<elopio> thanks for your time, members of the board.
<highvoltage> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:25.
<di3gopa> yes, thanks everyone!
<elopio> hope to see you some time soon. *hugs*
<di3gopa> =)
<mmgc84> :)
<highvoltage> oh and special thanks to the none-EMEA RMB members who stepped in while drubin and cz... uhm laura is on holiday!
<mmgc84> MichealH-iPod keep it up!
<di3gopa> :D
<sabdfl> right, hello all, CC members in attendance?
<popey> o/
<pleia2> hello :)
 * persia waves
<sabdfl> ...
<sabdfl> hi all
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:28. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> so the only thing we have on the agenda is that the Asia Oceania Membership board hasn't met recently
<sabdfl> the suggestion is to add two members
 * pleia2 nods
<sabdfl> i wonder whether we should first have monthly meetings in ONE of the proposed times
<persia> As much as I'd like to believe simply adding folk would solve it, I think it more strongly needs leadership, which I've completely failed to provide in the past six weeks (since we last discussed it).
<pleia2> persia: are you on the asia-oceania mailing list? paultag sent an email on June 21st asking if any applications were recevied (this would have been several months back)
<sabdfl> i'm generally inclined to give a governance group what it wants, but in this case it seems the issue is as much with existing members as with the shortage of additional ones
<persia> very much so.
<persia> pleia2, There have been a few nominations, although some are likely stale at this point.
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> there is a list of nominees that we were working with the loco council on
<pleia2> perhaps we can talk to one of them about being a leader/secretary of the board to do a better analysis of what needs to change? (who is active? will adding two time zone meetings help or not matter?)
<pleia2> this is kinda what we wanted you to do, persia, but I think your plate is probably too full :)
<persia> Adding two timezone meetings will certainly help: that's been something discussed since the second A-O RMB meeting.
<persia> I'd kinda like to do it, but as I've not been doing so recently, would certainly appreciate not perceiving myself as a blocker.
<popey> What's the main preferred UTC time for Asia-Pac meetings?
<popey> or times
<pleia2> popey: they've held them at 10:00 in the past
<popey> ok, so Europe daytime.
<persia> Time zones range from +5:30 to +13:45, so "evening" ranges from about 5:00 to about 17:00 UTC.  The most popular recommendations from prior discussions were something like 8:00 and 13:00.
<pleia2> http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/01/30/regional-membership-boards-restaffing-2/ has details of when they were shooting for meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/01/30/regional-membership-boards-restaffing-2/ has details of when they were shooting for meetings
<pleia2> so I think we need both: Add new members, find a board "leader" who is willing to be responsible for keeping the team on track
<popey> yeah
<persia> Probably best to have the leader in +8 or +9, as this is the best time to be able to do both meeting times.
<pleia2> yeah, at least be able to peek in to make sure the 2nd meeting happens
<pleia2> even if they can't attend fully
<sabdfl> hmm.
<sabdfl> we manage
<sabdfl> we alternate times
<popey> cc rarely has a list of 10 people waiting on action though, RMB's do.
<sabdfl> true
<sabdfl> would it make sense to split it into two? how much overlap is expected, would many members go to both times?
<popey> is there suffient leadership to run two when there so far hasn't for one?
<persia> The original proposal for the large size/two meetings model was to strive for 10 members, of which 3 would be UTC+10 or later, 3 would be UTC+7 or earlier, and the remaining in +8 or +9, striving for 7 attending each meeting.  I'm unsure how workable that would be in practice, but it seemed sensible when we started.
<pleia2> I think it's a sensible way to start anyway, we can see how it works in practice
<sabdfl> ok, let's try it
<popey> I'd also encourage mails to the mailing list when people can't attend, because other RMB members can certainly step in
<pleia2> we have a list of 6 potential nominees that the loco council was helping us with, I'll follow up with paultag's email to see abou getting some folks added
<pleia2> popey: +1
<popey> we had that tonight with the EMEA board
<persia> I'll forward the list of nominees sent to the A-O list over the past while.
<pleia2> persia: thank you
<pleia2> that's it for the agenda
<sabdfl> any other business?
<popey> not I
<pleia2> I think we're done
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<sabdfl> thanks all!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:51.
<sabdfl> thanks for steering, pleia2
<sabdfl> night!
<highvoltage> popey: yes I'm really glad we had some help. was slightly harder keeping tabs on who have already voted though, but a nice excercise :)
<popey> heh
<highvoltage> night sabdfl
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-06
<mvo> hello
 * stgraber waves
 * bdmurray waves
 * psurbhi waves
<psurbhi> o/
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> hi
<jhunt> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko csurbhi stgraber jhunt mvo ev vorlon bdmurray)
<slangasek> ev stgraber mvo bdmurray vorlon doko barry jhunt csurbhi cjwatson
<ev> eep, can we come back around to me? Still typing
<slangasek> ok :-)
<slangasek> stgraber:
<stgraber> - Rally all of last week
<stgraber> - On holiday on Monday
<stgraber> - Yesterday: Did some ISO testing, email backlog, IPv6 testcase, admin stuff for the Oneiric Linux Containers Sprint and published a blog post on Arkose
<stgraber>   http://www.stgraber.org/2011/07/05/busy-week-for-arkose/
<stgraber> - Today: Some more ISO testing and fixes, triaged some LTSP bugs and commited a few fixes, started poking at debsums again.
<stgraber> - Tomorrow and Friday: Some work on oneconf, dbus proxy for Arkose and if I still have time, some work on firewalling support in Arkose.
<stgraber>  - On holiday all of next week, then back to Canada.
<stgraber> (done)
<mvo> did:
<mvo> distro sprint last week
<mvo> software-center: webkit/python bridge evaluation (using qt webkit lp:~mvo/software-center/html-experiment), look into recommender systems specifically "collaborative filtering", some webcatalog/oneconf work with didrocks, work on gtk3, remove leaking abstractions, merge the gtk3 branch into trunk(!) not default yet though, add video player widget based on gstreamer in gtk2, trying to do the same for gtk3, utterly fail, use webkit instead; br
<mvo> anch merges, upload new version;
<mvo> apt: SoC mentoring, debug/fix sha1 breakage in the experimental branch, python-apt SRU for xz support
<mvo> app-install-data update for a2
<mvo> (done)
<bdmurray> distro rally last week
<bdmurray> Blocking of apport package installation failures that are the result of a      |        I wrote a merge-proposal blocking this for english at least
<bdmurray> segfault.  Worked with mvo regarding aptdaemon and writing something sensible  |            https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/apport/package-segfaul/+me
<bdmurray> to history.log.  Worked with kernel team regarding tagging of kernel oops bug  |rge/65967
<bdmurray> reports.  Clean up of casper bug reports regarding update-initramfs failure    |        mvo will write some modifications to dpkg and how debconf is called to
<bdmurray> on Live Media.  Worked with pitti regarding bugpatterns for pre-Natty          |make sure messages are in English
<bdmurray> releases.  Discussed bug heat with deryck from the Launchpad team.
<bdmurray> hrm
<cjwatson> let me guess, paste from vim with vsplit? :-)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: winner!
<bdmurray> Blocking of apport package installation failures that are the result of a
<bdmurray> segfault.  Worked with mvo regarding aptdaemon and writing something sensible
<bdmurray> to history.log.  Worked with kernel team regarding tagging of kernel oops bug
<bdmurray> reports.  Clean up of casper bug reports regarding update-initramfs failure
<bdmurray> on Live Media.  Worked with pitti regarding bugpatterns for pre-Natty
<bdmurray> releases.  Discussed bug heat with deryck from the Launchpad team.
<bdmurray> there that's better
<bdmurray> done
<cjwatson> mvo: python-apt> that's bug 805389?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805389 in python-apt (Ubuntu Lucid) "Support xz compression inside debs" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805389
<cjwatson> mvo: if you didn't notice, RAOF asked for an amended upload
<mvo> cjwatson: indeed, I will fix that today
<cjwatson> ta
<cjwatson> slangasek: I think you're next ...
<slangasek> speaking of writing sensible things to history.log - the latest bug I duped over to debconf about /var/cache/debconf/config.dat being locked shows a "LiveMediaBuild" field (bug #806272)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806272 in debconf (Ubuntu) "package libpam0g 1.1.2-2ubuntu8.3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 (dup-of: 792262)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806272
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792262 in pam (Ubuntu) "package libpam-modules 1.1.1-2ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792262
<slangasek> is that new data that apport didn't send before?
<slangasek> cjwatson: ack :-)
<bdmurray> slangasek: history.log? yes that's new
<bdmurray> slangasek: LiveMediaBuild has been around for quite some time
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok - so if LiveMediaBuild isn't there in the other reports, they weren't running in a live env
<slangasek> so I can't pin this bug on ubiquity :-)
<bdmurray> slangasek: that is correct
<slangasek>  * was off Monday, US holiday
<slangasek>  * rally
<slangasek>  * upgraded to oneiric, switched to unity 2d from GNOME classic - started filing bugs
<slangasek>  * some work to help fix a regression in eglibc multiarch handling from Debian
<slangasek>  * cleaning up -dev packages to make multiarch cross-building possible in practice
<slangasek> (done)
<doko>   - not working last Thu and Fri
<doko>   - GCC Linaro merge
<doko>   - binutils update
<doko>   - eglibc update
<doko>   - python3.2.1 rc2 upload, including profile/pstats with the now
<doko>     finally free license (took just a couple of years ...)
<doko> done
<barry> rally.  monday was usa holiday.  bug 788514: (gnome-applet-data, gnome-doc-utils, python-gnomekeyring, python-pyatspi).  sync request pending for python-oauth (bug 806103).  worked on a few others, but they were more problematic, will come back to them.  done.
<barry>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788514 in Ubuntu Oneiric "python packages on the CDs not using dh_python2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806103 in python-oauth (Ubuntu) "Sync python-oauth 1.0.1-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806103
<jhunt> O'Rally last week. Spent most of last 4 days working on customer
<jhunt> bug 802661. The immediate problem is fixable by a tweak to a single
<jhunt> Upstart job, but the invesigations I've performed so far suggest
<jhunt> we've found the cause for a whole class of bugs (good news!) These
<jhunt> are not Upstart issues but rather are arguably a limitation of the
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 802661 could not be found
<jhunt> way a generic Linux system currently handles loading kernel modules.
<jhunt> Ended up writing a kernel module to test the customer fix. The bad
<jhunt> news is that there is no generic fix available right now - looks
<jhunt> like the full solution requires some modprobe changes (more work to
<jhunt> do there...) and possibly some new tooling to help users. Playing
<jhunt> with dh_installinit. Plan for tomorrow - Upstart coding!
<jhunt> â
<cjwatson> python-profile/pstats> oh, about time
<barry> \o/
<slangasek> barry: so python-oauth was still using pycentral on the CDs?  Do we know for sure that it's the last one now? (how was it missed before?)
<doko> I'll recheck the alpha2 images, including the kubuntu images
<barry> slangasek: it wasn't actually missed, but accidentally moved to the 'completed' slot.  sync'ing from debian should resolve that one
<cjwatson> yeah, I was going to hold that sync until after alpha 2
<barry> but i also was going to request doko re-run his script after we think we're done :)
<barry> cjwatson: fair enough
<slangasek> jhunt: "playing with dh_installinit" - fixing it to install both init scripts and upstart jobs? :)
<slangasek> barry: ah, ok
<slangasek> psurbhi:
<jhunt> slangasek: I'm adding some extra checks.
<psurbhi> *) rally last week.
<psurbhi> *) submitted a merge proposal for an initctl equivalent code mountall.
<psurbhi> *) working on the mkinitramfs script - working on the part "when something goes wrong". Rearranged mountall, udev, upstart-udev-bridge to have a execution flow as is in the current initramfs.  Seeing an error right now - "directory not empty - while deleting" - working on fixing that. Also again, not seeing the "stopped" for a job but stopping instead.
<psurbhi> (done)
<cjwatson>  * holiday on Tuesday
<cjwatson>  * carrying on with IPv6 work; mostly finished with netcfg aside from a few tweaks, now blocked on ifupdown 0.7, working on DHCPv6 support there to try to move things forward
<cjwatson>  * improved netcfg BOOTIF code some more to allow preseeding netcfg/choose_interface, which lets kickseed use it
 * barry has to remember to poke zul again about python-image-store-proxy :)
<cjwatson>  * fixed kickseed parser to avoid backslash damage
<cjwatson>  * minor installer fixes for alpha 2
<cjwatson> --
 * barry thanks zul!
 * jhunt wonders if we should standardise the "end of report" marker :)
<bdmurray> let people be creative!
<barry> jhunt: let a thousand dones bloom
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> ev:
<ev> - Post-sprint stuff (expenses, survey)
<ev> - PyGI/GTK3 porting work on Ubiquity - getting closer.  Started porting
<ev>   segmented_bar and hit a double free down the stack, though Neil has just
<ev>   given me some workaround suggestions.
<ev> - Started a conversation with Amanda around geoip-selective installation of
<ev>   codecs.
<ev> - Chat with Pete on pulling some of the Ubuntu Light work into Wubi (bind
<ev>   mounting Documents, Music, etc).
<ev> - Integrated wubi ext3 image builds into live-build.  This mainly involved
<ev>   tricking the lupin-support versions of the grub scripts to think they were
<ev>   operating on a Wubi system.  Still need to finish up the cdimage
<ev>   integration, but the rest works (building the image, generating the wubildr
<ev>   bootloader)
<ev> - Worked with Matthew to nail down the design for the wireless setup page of
<ev>   ubiquity.  Hacked on that widget some more.  Just need to combine multiple
<ev>   APs using the same SSID, adding secrets, and integrating it into the
<ev>   ubiquity window.
<ev> - Finally got around to the IronPython investigation work requested by
<ev>   slangasek.  IronPython application and supporting libraries + CefSharp
<ev>   bindings + Chromium Embedded Framework comes in at about 28 MB, though I'm
<ev>   hoping lzma and shaving down icudt42.dll (unicode support) will save the day
<ev>   there.  I have a running example
<jhunt> bdmurray: watch out for my "morse code" report next week! :)
<ev>   (http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/ironpython-cefsharp.png) compiled
<ev>   down to .NET bytecode and now I'm just trying to create a bundle out of the
<ev>   resulting executable and supporting DLLs.  I'm thinking I'll use 7-zip's SFX
<ev>   header with a custom configuration and a lzma archive.  I'll eventually hand
<ev>   this off to The Team (design agency) as a test harness for the slideshow
<ev>   work they're doing for us.
<ev> - Had a two hour meeting with The Team on the slideshow redesign work. I'll
<ev>   need to investigate the best way to have the WebKit view talk back to
<ev>   ubiquity as we want to move the finished dialog into the slideshow, and this
<ev>   means sending a reboot signal to ubiquity.
<ev> - Reviewed Matthew's crash tracker design.
<ev> - Had a meeting with Jono L to discuss the application developer program.
<ev> - Fighting to keep my desk in Millbank. :-/
<ev> TODO:
<ev> - Learn Cassandra and talk to James Troup about how to best structure the
<ev>   installation success / failure data collection.
<ev> - Build a serial controlled USB switch box using an Arduino board and the
<ev>   innards of a manual switch box, in support of the new installer testing
<ev>   harness design.  Finally get around to expensing ITX hardware with Pete.
<ev> (done)
<jhunt> ev: this switch box - is that to cut the mains power?
<ev> jhunt: it's to have the test master image a USB drive with the image to test, then have it switch the USB drive over to the slave
<ev> the idea being that no normal person does installs using PXE + NFS
<ev> and we should test the USB path, as that's probably most common
<jhunt> ev: ok.
<jhunt> ev: :)
<ev> I had crazy ideas around using USB OTG, but they were crazy
<ev> this is simple(-r)
<mvo> ev: lots to read. interessting stuff around the arduino, I love playing with those
<slangasek> ev: how soon will you know if lzma will save the day?  We are effectively blocked from moving forward on getting a contractor if we don't know what we expect to contract him to work in
<slangasek> ev: where are they putting your desk if not in Millbank?
<ev> I need to remember how to use a soldering iron without starting a fire or setting off the alarms.
<ev> slangasek: I hope to have rough numbers on the IronPython approach by tomorrow's end
<slangasek> soldering> oh, is that why they want you out of the office ;)
<ev> slangasek: they want to move me to a hot desk / force me to work from home
<highvoltage> ev: it's like riding a bike :)
<ev> which is not easy when I have two laptops, a monitor, and a netbook
<slangasek> heh
<mvo> and a soldering iron
<ev> but I'm not considered valuable because apparently we only need to talk to our own teams, not designers or anything
<ev> </rant>
<slangasek> solution: solder the netbook to the desk, then no one will want it
<slangasek> ;)
<ev> hahahahahaha
<ev> yes
<ev> will do
<ev> thanks for the sign off on that
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else to discuss before ev gets me fired?
<ev> lol
<mvo> if anyone has some experience with recommendation algorithms, I'm all ears (or the google api on that)
<ev> mvo: ACM?
<ev> isn't that the kind of thing they normally publish
<mvo> ev: yeah, I was hoping for a shortcut ;)
<ev> mind you, Netflix was willing to pay $1M for theirs: http://www.netflixprize.com/
<slangasek> people who enjoyed this algorithm might also enjoy [...]
<ev> lol
<mvo> lol
<stgraber> :)
<ev> if you liked merge sort, you'll love Tim sort!
<barry> tim sort ftw
<slangasek> sounds like that's everything? :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:30.
<ev> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<mvo> thanks
<psurbhi> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<jhunt> thanks
<jibel> o/
<jibel> ready for the meeting ?
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will come to the meeting, too
<bdmurray> o/
<jibel> anyone else or that just a 1-1 ?
<jibel> bdmurray, welcome !
<jibel> pedro_, hggdh ?
 * hggdh wakes up
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<jibel> okay, lets start then
<pedro_> hello
<jibel> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:06. The chair is jibel.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jibel> Agenda:
<jibel> Previous Actions (all)
<jibel> Community Efforts/Testing
<jibel> Automated/Systems Testing
<jibel> Engineering Team Bug Status
<jibel> Other Topics
<jibel> Chair Selection
<jibel> [TOPIC] Previous Actions (all)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous Actions (all)
<jibel> nothing I can remember of.
<jibel> bdmurray, research of bugs with workaround was done ?
<bdmurray> jibel: yes it was
<jibel> thanks. moving on
<jibel> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<jibel> We are currently testing Oneiric Alpha2 candidates, and here are the first results
<jibel>  * Image Coverage       : 84.78% (39/46)
<jibel>  * Mandatory Test Cases : 56.21% (95/169)
<jibel> Major issues with Ubuntu (arch != arm ) :
<jibel>  * bug 781076
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 781076 in doc-base (Ubuntu Oneiric) "package doc-base 0.9.5ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: Byte order is not compatible at ../../lib/Storable.pm" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781076
<jibel>  * bug 806349
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806349 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "OEM Install fails with - KeyError: "The cache has no package named 'python2.6-minimal'" - without network connection." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806349
<jibel>  * bug 791611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791611 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "LTSP live doesn't work with new Network Manager" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791611
<jibel> amd64+mac untested: bug 702283
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 702283 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "usb-creator doesn't create EFI-bootable USB sticks" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702283
<jibel> and CDs are oversized
<jibel> EC2 tests ongoing.
<jibel> arm: waiting for next set of images
<jibel> Edubuntu has critical issues but won't be fixed on time for A2
<jibel> Ubuntu Studio and Mythbuntu are not tested
<jibel> Xubuntu has problems with lightdm (session doesn't start and uses wrong settings)
<jibel> charlie-tca, do you want to add something about xubuntu ?
<charlie-tca> That about covers it. If the user remembers to select a session, it mostly works
<charlie-tca> oh, and no live session for xubuntu, either
<charlie-tca> That's all from me
<jibel> thanks.
<ScottK> Kubuntu is skipping Alpha 2.
<jibel> thanks ScottK
<charlie-tca> studio had to re-built today, the image they had was not installable
<jibel> There's still time to test the remaining testcases.
<jibel> Go to the iso tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/notcompleted and pick a test. You're help is welcome.
<jibel> Next week we'll be testing proprietary graphics drivers
<jibel> and the week after it will be 10.04.3
<jibel> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<jibel> patrickmw doesn't seem to be around.
<jibel> let skip it then.
<jibel> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status
<jibel> bdmurray, pedro_ ?
<pedro_> so after doing iso testing if you have some free time help to test the Lucid proposed packages?
<pedro_> the list is not that big bug having a few there
<pedro_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<pedro_> sorry not the same topic though
<pedro_> jibel, not much to share this week on the bug status
<pedro_> mostly catching up from last week and having an extra look to 'iso-testing' tagged bugs
<jibel> thanks pedro_
<jibel> bdmurray, any news on the foundation side ?
<bdmurray> I was off Monday and Tuesday but some notable things from the rally are:
<bdmurray> Blocking of apport package installation failures that are the result of a
<bdmurray> segfault
<bdmurray> Worked with kernel team regarding tagging of kernel oops bug
<bdmurray> reports.
<bdmurray> Clean up of casper bug reports regarding update-initramfs failure
<bdmurray> on Live Media.
<bdmurray> Worked with pitti regarding bugpatterns for pre-Natty
<bdmurray> releases.
<bdmurray> done
<jibel> thanks
<jibel> any question  or comment ?
<jibel> moving to next topic
<jibel> [TOPIC] Other Topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Topics
<jibel> any topic you'd like to talk about ?
<bdmurray> jibel: you'd asked about 'test case' bugs did you have a plan for those?
<jibel> Yes I do.
<jibel> there plan is to review the list and eliminate what is not test case
<hggdh> this is on the list of bugs bdmurray collected, correct?
<jibel> then for what is really a test case, identify what is useful to be automated
<jibel> hggdh, yes
<jibel> there is something like 1500 test cases we can use to expand the regression testsuite
<hggdh> can you post the link to the list?
<jibel> but before that there is a huge work of manual reviewing.
<bdmurray> its a restricted url right now
<jibel> bdmurray, do you have the link ?
<hggdh> oh, OK
<bdmurray> https://devpad.canonical.com/~brian/descriptions-with-testcase.txt
<bdmurray> and its not updated regularly
<bdmurray> but it could be ;-)
<hggdh> heh
<hggdh> OK. so, so far only Canonical can work on this list
<jibel> thanks, we'll publish a clean list for review but there's no schedule defined yet. I'll have a closer look and see if we can make something useful out of it.
<bdmurray> okay, I was just curious about it
<jibel> anything else ?
<jibel> last topic
<jibel> [TOPIC] Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair Selection
 * hggdh slightly raises hand (hoping it will go unnoticed)
<jibel> hggdh volunteers \o/ congrats
<hggdh> darn!
<jibel> [ACTION] hggdh to chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh to chair next meeting
<hggdh> :-)
<jibel> 3
<jibel> 2
<jibel> 1
<jibel> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:32.
<jibel> Thanks all for attending!
<hggdh> jibel: you *could* have waited some few more seconds to accept me as chair ;-)
<charlie-tca> jibel: thanks for chairing today!
<hggdh> thank you jibel
<charlie-tca> hggdh: thanks for volunteering to chair the next one!
<pedro_> thanks jibel!
<jibel> hggdh, there was so many hands raised that I barely noticed yours. That's pure chance
<hggdh> LOL
 * charlie-tca was going to raise his, but got busy right then
<jibel> Ursinha, can you join next meeting and present bug status on server side ?
<jibel> its every Wednesday at 1700UTC
<Ursinha> jibel: sure
<sbeattie> bdmurray|jibel: how do you intend to mark bugs that are false positives on the 'test case' list?
 * sbeattie re-asks in #ubuntu-quality
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-07
<benonsoftware> Is the Asia RMB this or last week?
<benonsoftware> ronin___: Fine thanks.
<benonsoftware> you?
<ogra_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is ogra_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra_> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110707
<ogra_> is everyone here ?
 * ogra_ pokes the arm team
<GrueMaster> zzzz
<ogra_> infinity, around ?
<ppisati> o/
 * ogra_ sees janimo and pokes to see if he's alive 
<janimo> o hai
<ogra_> ah, good
<ogra_> so only infinity is missing
<ogra_> likely asleep
<ogra_> lets get started then
<ogra_> [topic] standing items
<MootBot> New Topic:  standing items
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<ogra_> i moved most items to A3 that were not DONE
<ogra_> if you have any items that actually are DONE and just miss the paperwork, please correct :)
<infinity> o/
<ogra_> infinity needs to move his remaining three items too :)
<GrueMaster> I can move the usbboot wi to A3.  Won't get more done until next week.
<ogra_> rsalveti, are you here ? seems there is an A2 item on the workitem tracker for you
<GrueMaster> netinstall testcase documentation will be added today or tomorrow.
<rsalveti> ogra_: yup, for kernel I believe, let me check
<ogra_> can you move, drop, close it (whatever is appropriate)
<rsalveti> sure, will move it for now
 * ogra_ notes doko and lag also have items on the arm tracker
<rsalveti> yep
<ogra_> anyway, lets see that we have that cleaned up by tomorrow
<lag> ogra_: Link
<ogra_> moving on
<ogra_> lag, above :)
<ogra_> the alpha-2 tracker
<ogra_> [topic] arm server status (NCommander, Daviey )
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm server status (NCommander, Daviey )
<ogra_> hmm, i guess both are on vacation
<ogra_> we have server images thanks to tireless testing work from GrueMaster, a d-i upload from infinity to fix netboot and apw for a linux-omap4 upload !
<ogra_> \o/
<ogra_> that was awesome (cross)team work !
<ogra_> sadly it didnt fix desktop or omap3
<ogra_> anything else for server to add ?
<infinity> Nope.
<ppisati> ogra_: did we miss the usb fix patch for omap3?
<ogra_> ppisati, nope, but it segfaults on boot
<ppisati> ogra_: DOH!
<ogra_> patch seems to be in
<GrueMaster> ppisati: Not sure.  It has other more serious issues.
<ppisati> GrueMaster: ah, you mean the oneiric kernel? ok
<ogra_> [topic] kernel status ppisati, cooloney)
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel status ppisati, cooloney)
<ppisati> Kernel development: usual CVE fixes across different branches.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: we reached an agreement with agreen/linaro to get the TI BSP on top of a vanilla kernel, as a result a new oneiric/master-next-based kernel is in the work - see git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ppisati/ubuntu-oneiric.git ti-omap4-next. Still a WIP, kernel panics on boot ATM, do not use.
<GrueMaster> ppisati: See bug 806113
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806113 in linux (Ubuntu) "Series of segfaults early in the kernel boot process on omap." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806113
<ogra_> ppisati, yes, oneiric omap
<ppisati> ok, i'll assign it to me
<ogra_> (not omap4)
<ppisati> for tegra: ask to orga&c :)
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> well, i plan to move to .38 soon
<ogra_> with the a100 package
<ogra_> once i got that it will also go to oneiric
<ppisati> ogra_: btw, i tested the ac100, and it seems the wireless tends to loose pkts
<ppisati> did you notice it too?
<ogra_> some people do
<ogra_> seems hw specific
<ppisati> k
<ogra_> i have one device with crappy wlan and one where it is rock solid
<ogra_> same model
<ogra_> same parts
<ppisati> same revision? 10z etcetc
<ogra_> yep
<ppisati> crap
<ogra_> 10V
<ogra_> anything else for kernel ?
<ppisati> nope from me
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> moving on then
<GrueMaster> ppisati: Can you look at bug 779410 for possible race condition in the kernel?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779410 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "package initramfs-tools 0.98.8ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779410
<ogra_> [topic] arm porting/ ftbfs status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm porting/ ftbfs status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra_> GrueMaster, i doubt it is the kernel
 * ogra_ got pinged today that json-glib has a fix in debian
<ogra_> thats holding up a lot other stuff, we need to get it synced
<infinity> Can do.
<ogra_> not sure how important the other stuff on the ftbfs list is
<ogra_> (who uses emacs23 anyway)
<infinity> Oh, it was synched 10 minutes ago. :)
<ogra_> apaort from that http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ looks pretty good for that state of the cycle
 * janimo is curious what the fix was, so goes take a look
<ogra_> universe could need some love though
<GrueMaster> There is no love ein the universe?
<ogra_> i wonder how we could get the community more active ... PPAs would be good :P
<ogra_> GrueMaster, there is, but apparently not in the places i look at :/
<persia> No, not PPAs: that just gets more stuff fixed *somewhere* that isn't useful.
<ogra_> for testbuilds that helps a lot
<persia> That's true, although it's sadly not used that way usually (from what I see)
<ogra_> its a lot less effort to just enable a PPA than to set up a local virtualization env or some weird cross env
<ogra_> well, thats a matter of communication i guess
<ogra_> anyway ...
<ogra_> anything else for ftbfs ?
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> moving on then :)
<ogra_> [topic] arm image status (NCommander, ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm image status (NCommander, ogra)
<ogra_> well, desktop seems badly broken
<infinity> Just a tad.
<ogra_> we get a non resize friendly filesystem since the switch to live-builder ... and jasper additionally has bugs
<GrueMaster> I plan on building a desktop image from a server install today so that I can at least test the other bits.
<ogra_> i'll look into jasper asap
<GrueMaster> I'm not convinced that jasper has a big issue.
<GrueMaster> Since server works on the same SD card.
<ogra_> must not be big
<ogra_> but apparently it has issues
<ogra_> how long does the resize on desktop take ?
<ogra_> server took 15min for me
<ogra_> (class 4 card though)
<GrueMaster> desktop took 30 minutes.
<GrueMaster> I think
<ogra_> phew
<GrueMaster> (I have multiple systems and don't watch that closely).
<ogra_> well, high prio to fix that :)
<ogra_> anything else about images ?
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> moving on
<GrueMaster> I'm thinking there is a regression in the kernel.  I'll test with a maverick kernel later today or tomorrow.
<janimo> GrueMaster, happens on all SD cards tried?
<ogra_> (or not :) )
<janimo> I wonder if any of my partitioning changes could affect resize
<GrueMaster> I get mixed results.
<ogra_> janimo, unlikely
<janimo> except in the way intended of course
<GrueMaster> Larger cards are more troublesome.
<ogra_> janimo, it could possibly affect the repartitioning
<ogra_> but the slowness is caused at filesystem creation
<ogra_> the inode size is to small
<ogra_> so resizing has to move way more then necessary
<ogra_> we used to use 8k for that in livecd-rootfs
<ogra_> anyway, we'll fix it :)
<ogra_> moving on for real now
<ogra_> [topic] Qa? (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Qa? (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Testing this release has been very problematic (as noted earlier).
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> the date of the sprint week wasnt helping with that either
<GrueMaster> I'm running into issues getting benchmarks going on btrfs.  Seems natty image doesn't care for conversion.
<ogra_> well, just format an SD and copy a configured FS over
<GrueMaster> system fails to mount rootfs using that method.
<ogra_> hmm, btrfs-tools installed ?
<GrueMaster> I have tried several different things (including nuke & pave).
<ogra_> it puts some bits into initrd
<GrueMaster> yes
<ogra_> weird
<ogra_> then it should work
<GrueMaster> It is failing in initrd
<GrueMaster> At any rate, it was lower priority this week vs release testing.
<ogra_> yeah, file a bug and one of us should look into it
<GrueMaster> netboot install works for the most part.  Some tweeking needed for the sd boot image size (10M is way too small).
<ogra_> ac100 lives with 8M :P
<GrueMaster> Easily worked around though, and the rest of the install works fine.
<ogra_> our initrds are way to large nowadays imho
<GrueMaster> ac100 doesn't have x-loader & u-boot in the boot partition.
<ogra_> but hey, who wouldnt want the intel drm drivers :)
<GrueMaster> Need to be ~30M I would think.
<ogra_> or nouveau ...
<persia> Those need to be there with the current model.
<GrueMaster> They have nothing to do with boot partition size.
<persia> The way that libdrm works, it needs to have *all* implementations available.
<ogra_> MLO and u-boot are 250k together
<GrueMaster> At any rate, I tested both SD & usbboot methods for netinstall on to sata USB drives.
<GrueMaster> ogra_: The problem is the filesystem runs out of space for whatever reason at 10M.
<ogra_> yeah
<GrueMaster> So make it bigger.
<ogra_> sure
<ogra_> i'm just ranting ... :)
<GrueMaster> Server install works cleanly, which iis odd given the issues with desktop.
<ogra_> having 5M initrds is to big too :)
<ogra_> yeah, jasper should do exactly the same on both
<GrueMaster> In between testing, I have been struggling to get jenkins running.  I am able to get it to remotely log into the pandas and start a slave instance.  Now to get it to do something usefull.
<ogra_> modulo the PPA stuff
<GrueMaster> Not much else to report here.
<ogra_> awesome progress !
<ogra_> anything else ?
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> moving on
<ogra_> [topic] any other business ...
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business ...
<ogra_> anything ... anyone ... ?
<ogra_> doesnt look like
<ogra_> going once
<ogra_> going twice
<ogra_> ending here ...
<ogra_> #ednmeeting
<ogra_> bah
<ogra_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:38.
<ogra_> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-08
<mrAlmond> Hi everyone, is this the right place to talk about ubuntu kernel?
<bazhang> mrAlmond, whats your question in relation to that, this is probably not the right place for it
<mrAlmond> something about input.h mapping with HID keyboards
<bazhang> mrAlmond, probably #ubuntu-kernel
<mrAlmond> ok tnx!!
<ivarela> someone can tell me the best (and fast) way to translate Thunderbird for Oneiric?
<ivarela> I can't see how to translate it from Launchpad.
<charlie-tca> ivarela: I don't know the answer, but I expect it is similar to firefox translation
<charlie-tca> both are mozilla
<ivarela> I think that many languages will have the same problem as me
<ivarela> it's a very loooooong process :(
<ivarela> not much time to be ready for Oneiric :S
 * skaet waves
<skaet> thanks for joining us mounir.  :)
 * charlie-tca is here
<skaet> :)
 * cjwatson tries to fix just one more bug before the meeting ...
<cjwatson> I suspect this vm is too slow
 * jibel waves
<pitti> hello
<skaet> hello all,  looks like quorum has formed...
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-08
<skaet> .
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-08
<skaet> .
<skaet> As part of the release cleanup, A2 targetted bugs that were not resolved have been moved to A3.  As part of this, the ftbfs tagged bugs have been un-milestoned, and everything else left the same.   If the bug has someone assigned to working on it,  and wants it milestoned, its fine to reattach the milestone for those with assigned individuals.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Events Approaching:
<skaet> - 10.04.3 Release: July 21, 2011
<skaet> - 11.10 Alpha 3: August 4, 2011
<skaet> - 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<skaet> Bugs milestoned for oneiric alpha 3 are at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<skaet> .
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
<pitti> skaet: any chance I can go earlier today?
<skaet> pitti,  sure,  how about right after QA and cert?
<pitti> skaet: thanks (also, horrible lag here, sorry)
<skaet> np,  and on that note,  lets head in to the round table...
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> Hi all
<jibel>  * Automated Testing:
<jibel> We have now migrated the daily image testing to the new QA infrastructure and are able to discover major installation failures very early and before publishing the candidates for testing.
<jibel> Tests running daily: Ubuntu server, alternate, desktop, ec2, wubi on i386 and amd64
<jibel>  * Automatic Upgrade Testing:
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<jibel>  * bug 781076 which was blocking i386 upgrades fixed yesterday.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 781076 in doc-base (Ubuntu Oneiric) "package doc-base 0.9.5ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: Byte order is not compatible at ../../lib/Storable.pm" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781076
<jibel>  * main-all completely failed and need investigation. possibly an infrastructure problem.
<jibel> * Top packages with most bugs reported during last week:
<jibel> unity with 2 critical bugs opened
<highvoltage> good morning skaet, pitti and jibel
<jibel> Hi highvoltage
<jibel> bug 804230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804230 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804230
<jibel> bug 804205
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804205 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in pthread_mutex_trylock()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804205
<jibel> gnome-settings-daemon with 4 high importance bugs opened
<jibel> bug 805908
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805908 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "multimedia keys not working" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805908
<jibel> bug 804896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804896 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:140: dequeue_pending_request: Assertion `req == dpy->xcb->pending_requests' failed." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804896
<jibel> bug 804221
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804221 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804221
<jibel> bug 788710
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788710 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788710
<jibel> gnome-control-center
<jibel> empathy (86% are crashes)
<jibel> nautilus: major issue was bug 805783 a glib2 bug and fixed today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805783 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in ffi_call()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805783
<jibel> == Results of Alpha 2 ISO Testing ==
<jibel> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricAlpha2TestReport
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricAlpha2TestReport
<jibel> High importance issues found and still opened for Ubuntu
<jibel> 766265	ubiquity (Ubuntu)	Confirmed	High	Ubiquity proceeds to use free space without warning
<jibel> 790712	linux (Ubuntu)	Confirmed	High	20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install
<jibel> 791607	eucalyptus (Ubuntu)	Confirmed	High	Oneiric Eucalyptus fails to start up
<jibel> 805783	glib2.0 (Ubuntu)	Confirmed	High	nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in ffi_call()
<jibel> 806107	u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu)	Fix Committed	High	Latest version of u-boot for omap fails to load boot.scr
<jibel> 788710	gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu)	In Progress	High	gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()
<jibel> 806419	ltsp (Ubuntu)	In Progress	High	nbd-server doesn't work on Oneiric
<jibel> 806358	unity (Ubuntu)	New	High	no menu bar on top, compositing bug?
<jibel> 564471	plymouth (Ubuntu)	Triaged	High	Lucid: garbled video at boot on radeon cards: bad color map due to 16-bit fb
<jibel> 791611	ltsp (Ubuntu)	Triaged	High	LTSP live doesn't work with new Network Manager
<jibel> 806113	linux (Ubuntu)	New	Undecided	Series of segfaults early in the kernel boot process on omap.
<jibel> 806453	udev (Ubuntu)	New	Undecided	udevd fails with error creating queue file, instance fails to boot
<jibel> 791850	linux (Ubuntu)	Confirmed	Undecided	oneiric cluster compute instances do not boot
<jibel> A note about ubuntu derivatives:
<jibel> Edubuntu had critical issues with ltsp and nbd
<jibel> Xubuntu needs to complete the transition to lightdm (blocked by bug 799754)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<jibel> Ubuntu Studio is not installable (Transition to XFCE in ongoing)
<jibel> Kubuntu, skipped A2, the bug breaking installation for A1 has been fixed (bug 791446)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791446 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "kubuntu installer crashes daily-live 6-1-11: AttributeError: 'QCheckBox' object has no attribute 'set_sensitive'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791446
<jibel> Mythbuntu unstested
<jibel> Next community testing milestones:
<jibel> Next week: ATI/nVidia proprietary driver testing
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!   Appreciate the details. :)   And thanks again for your working pulling the testing of Alpha 2 together.  :)
<skaet> any questions? (yes there's a lot of data to digest)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - brendand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - brendand
<brendand> mlegris for this one
<mlegris1> Hi all!
<mlegris1> No report this week
<mlegris1>  * checkbox in oneiric has an issue submitting results to c3
<mlegris1>  * cr3 and roadmr are working on resolution of the issue
<mlegris1>   
<mlegris1> we should have the issue resolved soon
<mlegris1> ..
<skaet> sorry about that mlegrisl.
<skaet> Thanks for the update.
<jibel> thanks mlegris1 that contrasts with my overdetailed report
<mlegris1> :) np
 * Ursinha likes the overdetailed report
 * skaet likes the details too...
<skaet> mlegris1, do we have any cert runs for oneiric yet?
<mlegris1> skaet: we do, but they are a couple weeks old
<skaet> mlegris1, thanks,  I'll get with you off line, for a pointer to them.   Would like to see what the baseline is looking like.
<mlegris1> skaet: sure thing
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team update - pitti
<pitti> hello
<pitti> hunderbird replaced Evolution as default email client on the CDs. This made the CDs explode again (~ 15 MB oversized), but we should now have all big new Oneiric things on the CDs.
<skaet> :)
<pitti> Unity and Indicators mostly ported to GTK 3 now.
<pitti> Great progress on Qt a11y patches; Unity 2D is now 80% accessible.
<pitti> Default umask is now 002 for private user groups, for easier data sharing.
<pitti> Work item status: some stragglers of alpha-2 moved to alpha-3; on track for final release. At the rallye we also identified a lot of BPs which can easily be postponed to the next cycle, to concentrate on bug fixing after alpha-3.
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti> - Got a slush of new RC bugs with the switch to lightdm (not really unexpected), grinding through these now
<pitti> - Slow progress on fixing the others, as we are concentrating on updating the platform and getting work items done; the ones from before this week are no showstoppers, so we can take some time for them
<pitti> - the most annoying right now is bug 805783 (frequent nautilus crash), which might be fixed with today's glib update; asked on the bug for feedback
<pitti> - details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805783 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in ffi_call()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805783
<pitti> oh, hot off the press: 805783 confirmed fixed with new glib
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti!
<skaet> good to hear the new glib fixes 805783.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - apw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - apw
<apw> o/
<apw> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the end of oneiric-alpha-2 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> We ended oneiric-alpha-2 with a number of items outstanding, all of these are non-release critical items mostly related to upstreaming.  These will move to oneiric-alpha-3 for completion.  Overall we are making progress for the release and do not expect to lose any features at this time.
<apw> oneiric-alpha-2 shipped with the 3.0-3.4 kernel whch was based on the mainline 3.0-rc5 release.  We are shortly going to upload a 3.0-rc6 kernel.  We are expecting the 3.0 final release shortly which represents our target kernel for oneiric.  We are still seeing a trickle of issues with the 3.0 version number and it is likely Linus will release this kernel as 3.0.0 to avoid these userspace issues, we
<apw>  will likely renumber our kernel also to match this and simplify backports to lucid.
<apw> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as below:
<apw> #212370: passed to lm-sensors for investigation;
<apw> #542660: looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram;
<apw> #754711: looks to be nouveau breaking suspend, upstream seems better in some ways;
<apw> #760131: is partly fixed in oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream;
<apw> #784937: seems that names of disk devices have changed, investigating currently;
<apw> #790712: the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus, waiting further information;
<apw> #791850: seems to be triggered by an amazon side change, amazon investigating; and
<apw> #806113: investigation in its early phase, no information yet.
<apw> #806419 and #791611 are non-kernel bugs.
<apw> ..
<cjwatson> 3.0.0> great, that will avoid having to deal with the problem that libc6.preinst in older releases doesn't like 3.0 and debootstrap can't pull from both lucid and lucid-updates
<apw> it seemed the prudent course
<cjwatson> or at least postpone it
<skaet> Thanks apw! :)   will move those non kernel bugs out of the list, and find them better homes.
<apw> skaet, thanks ..
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Feature progress in the last two weeks:
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-application-sandboxing: substantial work on Arkose, with many new features; presented by StÃ©phane at the rally
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-ipv6-healthcheck: work at rally with Mathieu on network-manager IPv6 handling; IPv6 support in debian-installer almost ready to land, and just waiting for ifupdown 0.7 in Debian unstable; stateful DHCPv6 patch sent for ifupdown
<cjwatson>  * software-center: webkit/python bridge evaluation; looking into recommendation systems; some webcatalog/oneconf work; merge gtk3 branch into trunk as non-default; add video player widget for gtk2
<cjwatson>  * defect analysis: blocked apport package installation failures that are due to segfaults; improved aptdaemon history.log output; improved tagging of kernel oopses; cleaned up casper update-initramfs failure bugs; worked on pre-natty bugpatterns; sorted out root cause of debconf passthrough failures
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-multiarch-next-steps: working on Launchpad support for moving long descriptions into Translations-en files; cleaning up -dev packages to prepare for multiarch cross-building support
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-dhpython-transition: python-central finally off the Ubuntu alternate CDs; a bit more work still required
<cjwatson>  * packageselection-foundations-n-event-based-initramfs: packages uploaded to PPA for testing
<cjwatson>  * desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3: more work on ubiquity PyGI porting
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-ubiquity: nailed down design for wireless setup page; hacked on that widget some more
<cjwatson>  * foundations-o-wubi: agreed design for new second-stage install system when installing wubi from the network (e.g. the www.ubuntu.com download page), and implemented most of the image builds
<cjwatson>  * rally discussion of a new crash tracker
<cjwatson>  * /run transition started in oneiric (http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory); please expect a rocky ride for a while, including image build failures
<cjwatson> I've updated a few of the bugs in the agenda directly, but don't have a full rundown at the moment; have been dealing with some plumbing emergencies today ...
<cjwatson> ..
<ScottK> I understand cjwatson figured out the ubiquity-kde keyboard selection crash.  Thank you (this would have been an Alpha 2 blocker for Kubuntu).
<cjwatson> yep, still not sure why it only affected KDE but anyway
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson. :)
<cjwatson> jibel: the /run transition in progress may account for some upgrade failures.
 * skaet will be reading up on /run transition
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra_
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra_
 * ogra_ waves
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  * PXE booting was verified and found working during the sprint, this is the core part to implement automated testing and will also be used in server installs.
<ogra_>  * During alpha2 testing various issues with the new way of formattinmg the filesystem in live-build were found, we are investigating fixes here currently (the created filesystem is not resize friendly, resizing takes unbearable long)
<ogra_>  * Desktop images failed A2 due to the above issues
<ogra_>  * OMAP3 started exposing segfaults on boot with the switch to 3.0
<ogra_>  * Work on fixing the kernel/bootloader postinst handling is going on.
<ogra_>  * Cleanup of jasper (our resizing tool) has started
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  * Desktop images are building but have installation issues
<ogra_>  * Server images build and install fine
<ogra_>  * Netboot images work fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  * Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_>  * A2 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Critical Bugs =
<ogra_> bug 779410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779410 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "package initramfs-tools 0.98.8ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779410
<ogra_> bug 806113
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806113 in linux (Ubuntu) "Series of segfaults early in the kernel boot process on omap." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806113
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> thats it
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ :)
<skaet> any outlook on when we'll be getting omap3 images again?
<ogra_> have to talk to the kernel team
<ogra_> i hope asap though :)
<skaet> ok, will do.   me too.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - mounir ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - mounir ?
<skaet> hmm... guess not yet.  next week then.
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> or joshuahoover ;)
<skaet> :)
<joshuahoover> we have a new release of u1-client out today
<joshuahoover> Chipaca has promised me he'll have something by EOD today for the way we're changing how u1 gets updated:
<joshuahoover> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-updates-for-network-clients
<joshuahoover> the bulk of our work right now has been on making the client cross platform friendly so we don't continually break things when making updates for one platform vs. the other
<joshuahoover> questions?
<joshuahoover> --
<skaet> Thanks joshuahoover.:)
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
 * skaet looks around for someone from desktop team?
<skaet> sorry,  dx team
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello.
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> Kubuntu skipped Alpha 2 due to lack of a working installer and too busy packaging KDE 4.7.
<ScottK> For 4.7, due to package splits, it's almost a complete do over.
<ScottK> Thanks to cjwatson, it looks like the installer blocker is fixed and we can see what else needs doing.
<ScottK> We started uploading 4.7 RC1 to the archive today.
<ScottK> There's a LOT of New stuff to deal with, so any archive admin with a little time, so help would be appreciated.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!   Any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
<highvoltage> I'll keep it short,..
<highvoltage> * We're a bit behind with Edubuntu currently, but  we can't should be able to catch up in alpha 3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<highvoltage>   (I'll put in some more effort over the next weeks to keep that roadmap page updated as well)
 * pitti needs to leave, thanks everyone!
<highvoltage> * Besides the LTSP related bugs filed on the QA tracker we didn't have any showstoppers, this was a really smooth alpha release!
<highvoltage> * I need to file some bugs for the gnome3 fallback sesion as well, there's some
<highvoltage> issues that I don't have on gnome 3 fallback on my debian system so perhaps we just need some newer packages.
<highvoltage> if there's any other questions feel free to poke myself or stgraber!
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> :)
<skaet> ..?
<stgraber> I guess so ;)
<highvoltage> yep, that's it (sorry)
<skaet> thanks highvoltage.  :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu is doing daily smoke testing of their images, with three people. Results are tracked a month at a time at http://2tu.us/3ebn .
<charlie-tca> We will be keeping about 1 month of results only, which allows to see when failures occurred and keep track of them.
<charlie-tca> * Bug 799238 is blocking the live session; needs 799754 fixed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799238 in casper (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu i386 and amd64 20110618 xserver abort" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799238
<charlie-tca> * Bug 799754 is blocking most of the bugs found in Alpha2.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<charlie-tca> * Bug 803499 has been blocked by bug 804734, which is fix-committed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803499 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu session using wrong settings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804734 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Please ship 60xdg_path-on-session like gdm" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804734
<charlie-tca> * Bug 806408 is also blocked by 799754.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806408 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "After xubuntu upgrade or installation, default session on greeter must be xubuntu" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806408
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca! :)
<skaet> Will keep a eye on 799754.
<skaet> the smoke test link is interesting, will look into it more later.  cool. :)
<skaet> any questions?
<charlie-tca> We are trying
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [Topic] Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
<MootBot> New Topic:  Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
<doko> updated oneiric to a pre-linaro release
<doko> did delay the test rebuild until all compilers are installable again
<doko> nothing more
<skaet> Thanks doko.  Any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> Hello all!
<Daviey> Much of the team is still recovering from last weeks sprint (IE, on holiday this week); meaning this week has been a little slower than most.
<Daviey> Alpha 2 is so far looking like a reasonably good milestone for us. Server is usable with some caveats, and cloud images have some issues - which have been identified early.
<Daviey> We have had to change some of our work items to reflect a slight change in design, regarding Orchestra.  This is probably the reason we are seeing an 'interesting' graph here:
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> We should be expecting to see some of the features come to more fruitation by the end of next week, early following. (Ensemble team are sprinting next week to solve the bare metail situation).
<Daviey> Regarding something which might be causing us woe very soon, is the mountain of MIR's we have pending (more to follow):
<Daviey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=server-o-mir
<Daviey> Noteworthy bugs:
<Daviey> Bug #776103 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu): "package open-vm-dkms 2011.03.28-387002-0ubuntu2 fails to build against 2.6.39 kernels, due to missing linux/smp_lock.h" - Status: In Progress / Importance: High - Assigned to: n-muench - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/776103 - Comment: Making progress, assignee is seeking help - serge is doing so.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 776103 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu) "package open-vm-dkms 2011.03.28-387002-0ubuntu2 fails to build against 2.6.39 kernels, due to missing linux/smp_lock.h" [High,In progress]
<Daviey> Bug #791607 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu): "Oneiric Eucalyptus fails to start up" - Status: Confirmed / Importance: High - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/791607 - Comment: Currently discussing issue with upstream eucalyptus.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 791607 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "Oneiric Eucalyptus fails to start up" [High,Confirmed]
<Daviey> Bug #784937 in linux (Ubuntu): "/mnt not mounted, swap not used, disk is xvde" - Status: Confirmed / Importance: High - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/784937 - Comment: Currently looking at possible solutions, ideally resolved in kernel - but cloud-init could work around it.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 784937 in linux (Ubuntu) "/mnt not mounted, swap not used, disk is xvde" [High,Confirmed]
<Daviey> Bug #791850 in linux (Ubuntu): "oneiric cluster compute instances do not boot" - Status: Confirmed / Importance: Undecided - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/791850 - Comment: Issue may be related to changes in AWS infrastructure, awaiting update.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 791850 in linux (Ubuntu) "oneiric cluster compute instances do not boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Daviey> Bug #801494 in Ubuntu: "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" - Status: New / Importance: Undecided - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/801494 - Comment: This issue needs to be reproduced to determine if it is a local issue, or a larger problem that hasn't been identified.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 801494 in Ubuntu "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" [Undecided,New]
<Daviey> Bug #802402 in image-store-proxy (Ubuntu): "convert to dh_python2" - Status: Confirmed / Importance: Undecided - Assigned to: ubuntu-server - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/802402 - Comment: Understood that zul is currently investigating FTBFS.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 802402 in image-store-proxy (Ubuntu) "convert to dh_python2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Daviey> .
<Daviey> If there are other bugs that we should be watching that i have missed, please raise them with me ASAP.  Thanks.
<Daviey> ..
<Daviey> Questions? :)
<Daviey> (/me makes a note to change the format for Bug foo, to stop ubottu).
<skaet> Thanks Daviey.  :) will cross correlate that list with the others later.
<Daviey> groovy.
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<skaet> hmm... doesn't seem to be here today.
<skaet> [TOPIC] any other business?   comments/questions/kudos?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business?   comments/questions/kudos?
<njpatel> DX? :/
<charlie-tca> Many thanks to cjwatson for keeping Xubuntu images working !
<skaet> hiya njpatel,  we called out for DX earlier, but no one responded.
<njpatel> skaet, sorry, I was monitoring but must have missed it
<skaet> if you've got some status - please go ahead.  :)
<njpatel> Cool :)
<njpatel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<njpatel> Released Unity 4.2.0
<njpatel> Fully Gtk3 (including panel service)
<njpatel> Unity Dialog plugin landed (finally!)
<njpatel> Lots of fixes across the components
<njpatel> Indicators
<njpatel> libindicator 0.4 cleaning up API cruft, required a breaks to ensure no stragglers
<njpatel> indicator-sound custom menu item improvements
<njpatel> indicator-power first release with single and multiple battery support
<njpatel> indicator-datetime integration with gnome-control-center
<njpatel> indicator-session support for LightDM
<njpatel> Compiz
<njpatel> Continued work on stacking issue, expecting some testable code soon
<njpatel> Missed release this week, hope to make it next week
<njpatel> Themeing
<njpatel> Overlay Scrollbar fixes and design tweaks. Better animations and usability.
<njpatel> UTouch
<njpatel> QML integration continuing
<njpatel> Unity 2D
<njpatel> Move to using the shared library from Unity 3D to implement the panel
<njpatel> Florian is away this week so not much more going on
<njpatel>  
<njpatel> the two bugs mentioned in the agenda are now milestoned for this iteration
<njpatel> and I've taken a look at the two QA posted earlier and will get them milestoned too
<njpatel>  
<njpatel> that's it :)
<skaet> Thanks njpatel !  :)
<skaet> Looking forward to the drop next week.  :)
<skaet> any questions?
 * tumbleweed is back, sorry for that
<skaet> go ahead tumbleweed,  I think we're done with DX now.
<tumbleweed> FTBFS squashing going well. Haven't really been looking at much else, but I know the NBS list is long
<tumbleweed> we are about half way through the FTBFS jam list
<tumbleweed> that's about all I have to say :)
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed. :)  glad the FTBFS list is coming down.
<skaet> any other questions, comments?
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:53.
<charlie-tca> Thanks, skaet
<tumbleweed> indeed, thanks skaet
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca tumbleweed njpatel joshuahoover jibel apw Daviey ogra_ pitti ScottK highvoltage doko cjwatson pitti
<skaet> Have a good weekend.  :)
<njpatel> you too!
<joshuahoover> thank you skaet :)
<skaet> Thanks mlegris1 :)
<jibel> thanks skaet and have a nice week end all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-09
<topyli> IRCC meeting now? or is my calendar confused?
<tsimpson> 1 hour
<topyli> ah ok
<StevenR> tsimpson: the fridge calendar suggests it's now
<tsimpson> it's wrong, 11:00 UTC is the meeting
<topyli> ok, i suppose it's now time for the IRCC meeting
<topyli> my network is a bit flakey, but if i disappear it won't be worse than a minute or so
<LjL> i am here! are you happy?
<topyli> yes!
<topyli> i would prefer if the actual IRCC were here too, but this isn't bad as it is :)
<topyli> jussi: elky tsimpson? i see nhandler is away
<topyli> alright. please ping me if you get around
<LjL> topyli: appoint yourself dictator for this meeting and proceed
<topyli> hmm sounds like a plan. who votes against? :)
<LjL> well i have to vote against, it's my nature
<topyli> oh yeah, shouldn't have given you the chance
<LjL> topyli: what do you think about pointing out in the op application documents that if you've been banned "recently" (for some definition of recent), the chances of being an op are low, unless the council decides to make an exception?
<topyli> LjL: i'm not sure, it's one of those things that we can either document or just rely on the so-called 'common sense'
<topyli> i'm not particularly fond of documenting and bureaucratizing stuff, even though i often come off as sounding otherwise
<topyli> also, we don't currently suffer from huge amounts of ridiculous or malicious op applicants. there are a few, but it's not a big job to weed them out
<topyli> if you want, you can put it on agenda of course, for second opinions
<jussi> bah, my google says meeting is now?
<jussi> topyli: ?
<LjL> topyli: well, i'm just thinking that in this case it might be a facilitation rather than a bureaucratic hindrance, so that people don't waste their time applying when they realistically have no chance
<ikonia> it's my fault - I was moaning about this
<ikonia> I just wish we'd use a little more reasonable approach, eg: the user python wanted to apply - it is pointless to make him go through the application process as he's not grasped any of the nature of the hcannels
<ikonia> rather than give him that feedback, we just point him to blindly apply and sit in no-mans land for 6 months
<ikonia> I'd just like to see a little less pointing at procedure, and actually use common sense
<ikonia> it's my fault this has re-appeared,
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-02
<vibhav> The DMB meeting is today, right?
<vibhav> s/today/after 8 minutes/
<tumbleweed> yesu
<vibhav> And barry is the chair?
 * coolbhavi wishes all the best to vibhav 
 * vibhav hugs coolbhavi 
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> hello
<micahg> o/
<vibhav> o/
<tumbleweed> we need at least one more to be quorate
<Laney> bdrung and stgraber already apologised
<vibhav> barry aint here
<Laney> barry isn't even online
 * Laney grumbles
<tumbleweed> probably has no power
<tumbleweed> washington...
<vibhav> :(
<Laney> 02/07 15:03:55 -!-  idle     : 4 days 16 hours 20 mins 22 secs [signon: Mon Jun 25 15:13:30 2012]
<micahg> laney is first anyways
<Laney> cody
<Laney> still not quorate for that
<vibhav> So, what do we do then?
 * Laney grumps at cody-somerville 
 * vibhav waits
<Laney> right
<Laney> we're going to go ahead and collect any remaining votes we need over email
<Laney> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  2 14:11:10 2012 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Laney> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<Laney> #subtopic micahg to document the zentyal packageset
<Laney> ?
<micahg> no
<Laney> #action micahg document the zentyal packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg document the zentyal packageset
<Laney> carried!
<Laney> #subtopic invitation to appear before the CC on 5 July
<Laney> can people be there?
<tumbleweed> yeah, I probably can
 * Laney too
<tumbleweed> do we have anything on our minds to raise with them?
 * micahg should be able to be there
<Laney> foreshadowing, maybe we can ask about the six month thing
<Laney> see if we are in line
<micahg> well, there's the issue of PPU not counting for Ubuntu membership
<Laney> we don't even have agreement from the dmb that we want that, but we could ask for their guidance.
<micahg> err, not granting, it should count towards it
<tumbleweed> we should at least tell them thaht it concerns us, and how we are dealing with it
<Laney> #action everyone try and be at CC meeting July 5th 17:00 UTC
<meetingology> ACTION: everyone try and be at CC meeting July 5th 17:00 UTC
<micahg> ok, I'll start a thread on the list then to see if we can get some type of consensus before then
<Laney> d-m-b@ or -devel@ or?
<tumbleweed> I'll dig up the transcript of the last such meeting
<micahg> d-m-b@ for not
<micahg> *now
<Laney> ok
<Laney> #action micahg to start a discussion on dmb@ about whether PPU should confer membership
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to start a discussion on dmb@ about whether PPU should confer membership
<Laney> onwards
<Laney> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Vibhav Pant
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Vibhav Pant
<Laney> vibhav: introduce yourself quickly please
<vibhav> sure
<vibhav> I am Vibhav Pant, age 14
<vibhav> I have been using Ubuntu since the age of 9, and was contributing eariler to Ubuntu by translations
<vibhav> I was introduced to Ubuntu Development by dholbach by the fix it friday initiative
<vibhav> And immediately fell in love with Ubutnu Community
<vibhav> I am currently working on NBSes, merges , upstream changes and SRUs
<Laney> thanks
<vibhav> My Application can be seen at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VibhavPant/UniverseContributorApplication
<Laney> who wants to go first? I suggest we use "o/" and "..".
<Laney> oh yes, I should have linked that.
<tumbleweed> o/
<Laney> go
<tumbleweed> vibhav: you're a fairly recent contributor, essentially applying for membership through ubuntu development
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Yes
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers describes a requirement for "significant and sustained contributions" which is normally understood as 6 months
<tumbleweed> have you been developing on ubuntu for that long?
<vibhav> nope
<tumbleweed> were you aware of that requirement?
<vibhav> nope
<ikonia> I'm sorry that is not true
<ikonia> other membership boards have made it clear the "sustained requirements" period minimum
<micahg> vibhav: I told you about that in #ubuntu-motu
<vibhav> micahg: yeah, I forgot
<vibhav> So, please continue
<IdleOne> o/
<tumbleweed> .. for now
<Laney> o/
<Laney> vibhav: please explain https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VibhavPant/UniverseContributorApplication?action=diff&rev1=46&rev2=47 and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VibhavPant/UniverseContributorApplication?action=diff&rev1=44&rev2=45
<IdleOne> I would just like to reiterate my comments that were also made at a precious Regional membership board meeting. I do not think vibhav is mature enough to be considered for Ubuntu membership. He lacks the necessary "team spirit" this community is built on. I strongly suggest his application be rejected until he can show more of the needed qualities. I am also concerned with the recent changes that were applied to the wiki page i.e comments
<IdleOne> being removed.
<IdleOne> s/precious/previous/
<vibhav> Laney: restored
<tumbleweed> IdleOne: thanks for bringing it to our attention
<IdleOne> My pleasure.
<Laney> I know that micahg put it back again.
<Laney> I'm concerned about why you thought trying to hide it from us was appropriate.
<vibhav> sorry
<Laney> We might have been able to have a discussion about the content of the comment, but that is now overshadowed by this, IMHO.
<vibhav> I agree, that was really stupid of me
<ikonia> it's not the first time you've done it
<tumbleweed> yeah, one of the most important things I'm looking for in a prospective Ubuntu developer is trust from other developers
<ikonia> this whole telling lies thing is getting to be a real insult to the constant applications to the community
<Laney> I'm also very concerned that you have been to other membership boards and aren't following their advice.
<IdleOne> vibhav: part of being in a community is being able to accept criticism from your peers and learning from that criticism. Trying to hide it from the DMB was not only stupid, as you put it, but for me it shows a lack of trustworthiness.
<vibhav> IdleOne: I was never trying to hide it
<IdleOne> vibhav: I want you to know that I am probably obe of your biggest supporters. The Ubuntu ops team has had more than a few discussions about you.
<IdleOne> s/obe/one/
<Laney> ..
<tumbleweed> vibhav: then why remove it?
<IdleOne> I am always trying to point out that you do have the potential but you don't want to do the work involved. This latest incident has really disappointed me.
<IdleOne> Thanks to the DMB for letting me speak, sorry i took so much time.
<tumbleweed> IdleOne: the "Things I can do better" paint a similar picture
<ikonia> I'm actually considering taking this to the CC
<tumbleweed> they are all part of "doing the work involved"
<ikonia> I don't find it acceptable that someone who is a persistant liar and trying to trick people into membership be allowed to continue
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Yeah, but I dont remember that stuff
<Laney> ikonia: thanks. We'll take it from here...
<ikonia> sure
<Laney> anyone else? micahg?
<micahg> I think what I wanted to say has been said already
<Laney> ok, let's vote.
<Laney> You should note that we don't have quorum so formally this will have to be settled over email.
<micahg> well, that depends on the vote :)
<Laney> #vote Should Vibhav Pant Pant become an Ubuntun Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Vibhav Pant Pant become an Ubuntun Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> (without typo) (with question mark)
<micahg> -1 only three months of dev work, wiki behaviour is an example not befitting an Ubuntu member regardless
<meetingology> -1 only three months of dev work, wiki behaviour is an example not befitting an Ubuntu member regardless received from micahg
<tumbleweed> -1 (as above)
<meetingology> -1 (as above) received from tumbleweed
<Laney> -1 Not been contribution for six months (the minimum, as advised). Dishonest behaviour, even when this has clearly been noticed.
<meetingology> -1 Not been contribution for six months (the minimum, as advised). Dishonest behaviour, even when this has clearly been noticed. received from Laney
<Laney> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Vibhav Pant Pant become an Ubuntun Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Laney> If you decide to come back, I suggest you reflect on all of the feedback you've been given.
<Laney> No quorum. Guess poor Laney has to wait until next time.
<Laney> #action chair for next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: chair for next meeting
<Laney> oops
<tumbleweed> guess we get to go through together, then (or not at all :P )
<Laney> #topic chair for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: chair for next meeting
<Laney> that's micahg
<Laney> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: aob
<Laney> ?
<micahg> no, it's barry :)
<Laney> oh yeah, barry (micahg) :P
<Laney> ding ding
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  2 14:38:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-02-14.11.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-02-14.11.html
<Laney> cheers all
<ikonia> that was quick
<ikonia> thank you guys
<Laney> we're efficient here
<Laney> (a blatant lie)
<micahg> Laney: thanks for chairing
<Laney> np
<tyhicks> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  2 18:01:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<kees> \o
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> hi kees :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm working on getting oo.o and libreoffice out today
<jdstrand> I've also got the apparmor 2.8 upload for quantal, but am trying to work out the python3 packaging as libapparmor isn't importable in python3 due to it going to the wrong place
<jdstrand> the ufw python3 port should be done, I'd like to get it packaged for quantal
<jdstrand> I plan to continue working on my assigned updates after that
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: is off today. he is on triage and I believe has some updates pending
<sbeattie> jdstrand: do we expect python-libapparmor to only support python3 from a packaging standpoint?
<jdstrand> jjohansen is also off. I'm not sure what he has planned
<sbeattie> (hopefully sleep)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: that was my starting point, since there are no reverse depends. in thinking about it over the weekend though, I think we may want to also export python2
<sbeattie> would we need a separate package for that?
<jdstrand> our python tools should be bi-lingual, so it should just be a matter of putting things in the right place
<sbeattie> okay
<jdstrand> sbeattie: based on my understanding of the Debian/Ubuntu python packaging guidelines, yes
<jdstrand> I am going to get some advice on that though
<kees> it should be possible to just build the python bindings twice
<jdstrand> that is what I was hoping
<jdstrand> the recent commits make it so that PYTHON* env variables dtrt
<jdstrand> so I just need to work out how to package that bit
<kees> yeah. is there a dh_python3, or does dh_python2 handle both?
<jdstrand> dh_python3 isn't being super helpful atm-- it is putting things in site-packages instead of dist-packages so python3 script can't find it
<jdstrand> kees: both-- I think dh_python2 can be passed --with-python3 and then maybe it will work. I'm kinda in the middle of it, so not sure
<kees> cool
<micahg> hrm, I thought site-packages was deprecated since python 2.6?
<jdstrand> micahg: exactly
<micahg> well, that sounds like a bug that should be easily fixed, has anyone talked to doko_ about it?
<jdstrand> anyhoo-- we don't need to bikeshed this-- I'm on it and will work it out. if I need help, I'll holler
<tumbleweed> jdstrand: site-packages vs dist-packages means you aren't calling setup.py correctly
<jdstrand> tumbleweed: heh, thanks. I read something on that and thought that might be the case
<tumbleweed> you want --install-layout=deb
<jdstrand> but haven't had a chance to try it
<jdstrand> tumbleweed: noted. this may go faster than I thought. thanks! :)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm testing the openjdk-6/icedtea-web backport/update; hoping to have that out by the end of this week.
<sbeattie> I've also got an embargoed issue on my plate
<sbeattie> I need to catch up on the open apparmor patches for review.
<sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me; I'll be off the 4th for the US national holiday.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up
<micahg> I'll be helping sbeattie test the icedtea backport as it fixes a regression for me, and then working on webkit
<micahg> I think that's it
<tyhicks> I'm in the community role this week
<tyhicks> I'm wrapping up some Mozilla testing as we speak and then my focus will shift to the pidgin update
<tyhicks> I didn't get much time to work on it last week since I was catching up on the Mozilla pretesting schedule and working through some issues I ran into while doing that
<jdstrand> tyhicks: did you sort out those issues?
<tyhicks> I've got a short week. Half a day off tomorrow, the holiday, and then a full day off on Thursday.
<tyhicks> jdstrand: Yep - it was a problem with our thunderbird config dir tar that we pull out of QRT. I can fill you in after the meeting.
<tyhicks> (the rest was 'fixed' by filing bugs against ff/tbird)
<tyhicks> I still haven't gotten to my merges, so any free time will be spent on those.
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jdstrand: You're up since jj is away today
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/strongswan.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freeciv.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qtnx.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/policycoreutils.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/maildrop.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<kees> I've got the xorg update for precise tested, can someone publish it?
<kees> it's been sitting since UDS :P
<jdstrand> kees: remind me-- is that >= 1.10 or > 1.10
<tyhicks> That probably falls on my shoulders since I'm on community this week, but I doubt I'll be able to get to it with my short work week
<kees> jdstrand: ?
<jdstrand> kees: what version of X is affected?
<kees> jdstrand: ah! introduced in 1.10 (LP: #996250)
<jdstrand> kees: ok, so that means that natty and oneiric are also affected
<kees> yeah, I didn't attempt those backports.
<jdstrand> sure
<jdstrand> we have currently prioritized this as 'low' due to our hardening measures
<jdstrand> which is why no one has done anything yet
<jdstrand> of course, the patch is sitting there, so someone could try to get that going
<jdstrand> kees: do you feel 'low' is not appropriate for Ubuntu?
<kees> well...
<kees> it's a DoS due to upstart killing the respawn.
<kees> and since on restart it aborts during video init, the console is unusable after the 1st restart
<kees> so, it's kind of borderline. anyone can ruin your unsaved-work day by sticking in the evil hid thingy
<jdstrand> yeah
<kees> it's also very unlikely. :P
<jdstrand> yes-- requires physical access
<sbeattie> ... unless you're in the vicinity of kees
<kees> :P
<sbeattie> "workaround: avoid kees"
<jdstrand> I can much less creatively ruin your work if I have physical access
<jdstrand> anyhoo, it sounds like tyhicks will be looking at it
<kees> cool, thanks
<jdstrand> hopefully a backport will be straightforward and easy to test
<jdstrand> anything else to discuss?
<kees> I *think* the backport of my patch for 1.11 shouldn't be much worse for 1.10. I already hauled in all the new functions for 1.11
<jdstrand> sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, kees: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  2 18:41:59 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-02-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-02-18.01.html
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<doko_> jdstrand, dh_python3, could you point me to a .dsc/package?
<jdstrand> doko_: ok (though I didn't really mean for everyone to get involved yet :) it is in /home/jamie/uploads/quantal on chinstrap
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-03
<Ursinha> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  3 16:00:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is Ursinha. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<Ursinha> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Ursinha> hello people, let's do this
 * smb is listening
<arosales> hello
<jimbaker> hi
<Ursinha> there's only one action item, it seems
<Ursinha> * rbasak follow up on IS request to move Ubuntu Server blog
<Ursinha> rbasak isn't here, it seems
<roaksoax> o.
<roaksoax> o/
<arosales> Ursinha: there is a ticket out. I'll follow up with rbask
<arosales> ah there is rbasak
<Ursinha> just pinged him
<Ursinha> :)
<rbasak> Sorry I'm late
<Ursinha> hi rbasak :)
<Ursinha> * rbasak follow up on IS request to move Ubuntu Server blog
<lynxman> o/
<rbasak> Still waiting on response from IS
<adam_g> o/
<Ursinha> no problem, thanks for coming :)
<Ursinha> all right
<Ursinha> thanks rbasak and arosales
<Ursinha> we should add a roll call section to the meeting :)
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<zul> hiho
<Ursinha> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Ursinha> here's the magic link
<Ursinha> #topic Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<Ursinha> well, there are two development sections in the meeting, is this correct or....
<Ursinha> ah no, sorry, :)
<Daviey> So.. that URL contains too much noise
<Ursinha> which one?
<Daviey> Ursinha: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<Daviey> We need to use topic urls :(
<Daviey> too many people are in ~ubuntu-server to make that a good tracking team
<Daviey> Ie, includes too many Desktop related blueprints
<Ursinha> Daviey, what about this: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+upcomingwork
<Daviey> Ursinha: same..
<Ursinha> Daviey, I see your point
<Daviey> oh
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/#Servercloud .. works best i think
<Ursinha> Daviey, those are actually defect analyst related, if you want to get rid of them, probably will want me to be removed from the team
<Ursinha> that should work
<Daviey> Ursinha: no!  You are a valued member
<Daviey> Ursinha: it's not just you, it hits anyone working on something un-servery who has an interest in server
<Ursinha> Daviey, maybe ~ubuntu-server is too generic for what we want
<Ursinha> ?
<Daviey> Ursinha: it is, but we have nothing else.. Using topic tracking is a big ++ :)
 * Daviey stops distracting 
<Ursinha> no, that's a valid point
<rbasak> Perhaps we need an ~ubuntu-server-developers subteam?
<Daviey> rbasak: we have that... but that would still hit anyone who is a member of that team, and a member of say security or foundations team
<Ursinha> rbasak, I guess the problem is that developers participate in several topics
<Daviey> So we either only track Canonical driven blueprints.. Which we simply won't do.. :) .. or use topics.
<Ursinha> something to think about..
<Ursinha> so, bugs: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Ursinha> who's working on bug 914160? it's in progress but has no assignee, it seems?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 914160 in openvswitch (Ubuntu) "[MIR] openvswitch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/914160
<Ursinha> also bug 912861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 912861 in juju (Ubuntu) "[MIR] juju, txaws, txzookeeper" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912861
<Daviey> zul, leveraging Ben Pfaff (blp-nicira)  if possible?
<zul> Ursinha:  it just got re-added this morning
<zul> Daviey: sure
<Ursinha> right, can those be assigned? :)
<Ursinha> we have four bugs targeted to alpha 3, three of them assigned to jdstrand, one to ubuntu-server team
<Ursinha> do we have any other issues that should be addressed?
 * Ursinha looks around?
<Ursinha> nothing?
<Ursinha> Daviey, anything to add?
<Ursinha> ok, people might be busy now
<Ursinha> moving on then
<Ursinha> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<smoser> so.
<smoser> we have lots of bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<smoser> we also are explicitly assigned several at http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<smoser> 12.04.1 is August 23rd, with freeze on the 16th
<Daviey> smoser: how is it looking?  What do you expect the bug count to be at release?
<smoser> i'm somewhat concerned that we're not speding any resources on addressing these.
<Daviey> right
<smoser> well, on the first list, the "right" number at 12.04.1 is zero
<Daviey> smoser: you are empowered to share out the work :)
 * smoser quickly presses assign-to-daviey on all bugs
<Daviey> smoser: So, lets divide the amount of people by zero, and we have our result.
<smoser> i will spend some time looking at those two lists, and the ones that fall into server, and (hopefully with the help of the great jamespage) do some assigning.
<Daviey> \o/
<arosales> Daviey: I'll follow up with m_3, SpamapS, and jimbaker on the juju ones @ http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html for server
<smoser> we just have to make sure, that while August 16 seems "far away"...
<Ursinha> cool, thanks smoser
<Ursinha> anything else?
<arosales> also anyone feel welcome to review the unassigned list @ http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
<arosales> for SRUs for precise
<arosales> ..
<Ursinha> great, thanks arosales
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> Mr Page is at Europython
<Ursinha> jamespage is at Euro Python right now
<Ursinha> that :)
<arosales> oscon is next on the list for july 16-20
<Ursinha> anything else?
<Daviey> nein
<Ursinha> right
<Ursinha> moving one
<Ursinha> on, even
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<Ursinha> hggdh, hello there
<Daviey> or jibel ?
<Ursinha> jibel, hello :)
<Ursinha> does anyone have anything for them?
<Ursinha> if not, I'll move on..
<Ursinha> okay
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
 * smb leaps to attention. Nothing in particular to bring up. Anything anyone wants to bring up which I might be unaware of?
<Ursinha> anyone?
<Ursinha> thanks smb :)
<smb> welcome
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing from me. Any questions?
<arosales> quesiton here
<arosales> rbasak: Do you have insights into the java direction on ARM
<arosales> specifically the work around openjdk?
<rbasak> I don't think I'm sufficiently expert in this area to answer. I think jamespage is more familiar with recent developments with openjdk
<arosales> rbasak: ok, thanks. I follow up with jamespage on his return
<arosales> ..
<Ursinha> thanks rbasak and arosales
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<Ursinha> go crazy
<Ursinha> you are all too quiet today :)
<Daviey> Gah, i missed talking to smb... Must be the leap second throwing me out of sync
<Ursinha> poor DavidLevin
<Ursinha> or Daviey
<Ursinha> (sorry DavidLevin :))
<smb> Daviey, leap a while... leap forever... :-P
<Ursinha> go ahead Daviey
<zul> Daviey: like quantum leap?
<Daviey> Ursinha: Nah, nothing meeting worthy actaully
<Ursinha> okay then
<DavidLevin> Ursinha, ;)
<jimbaker> if i'm not mistaken, there's a reasonable release of openjdk for java 7 on arm now
<Ursinha> moving on :P
<Ursinha> arosales, ^
<jimbaker> however, i have not actually played with arm server, so this is second hand knowledge
<arosales> jimbaker: thanks, yes there is some good progress there
<Ursinha> thanks jimbaker
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<jimbaker> see for example, http://blogs.arm.com/software-enablement/660-oracles-java-se-server-compiler-now-on-arm/
<Ursinha> next in list is jamespage, is that ok?
<Daviey> Now +7hrs -37mins
<Daviey> Tanks Ursinha !
<rbasak> hrs?
<Ursinha> didn't get it either
<Daviey> err, what am i thinking!
<arosales> thanks Ursinha for chairing
<Daviey> This is my they don't let me announce the time and date.
<Daviey> That leap second has driven me crazy with timezone handling
<Ursinha> haha
<Ursinha> thanks guys for joining
<Ursinha> next meeting, 16utc next week, jamespage is the chair
<Ursinha> that is all
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  3 16:40:00 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-03-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-03-16.00.html
<Ursinha> obrigada a todos :)
<arosales> toda bem
<arosales> sorry tudo bem
<arosales> :-)
<Ursinha> arosales, :)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  3 17:00:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<smb> \o
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> -o-
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: Ubuntu-3.4.0-202.7 contains a new TI BSP (tilt-tracking @ 44fef05d56961d0f34178e3c7ca4e362948e3107) that fixes the video issue many reported.
<ppisati> A new kernel (Ubuntu-3.4.0-203.8) is already queued and it improves upon the previous one by fixing a wl oops on boot, disactivates the interactive cpufreq governor (that spammed kernel logs with thousands of "kinterative process stuck for more than 120s") and eliminates /proc/config.gz.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-quantal-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || cooloney    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || jk-         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati     || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || kernel-team || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Alpha-3 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
 * cking late for roll call o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have recently rebased the Quantal kernel to the latest v3.5-rc5
<ogasawara> upstream kernel and have also uploaded.  This will also get uploaded to
<ogasawara> the q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10
<ogasawara> kernel in 12.04.  We welcome any early adopters to please install, test,
<ogasawara> and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs July 26 - Alpha 3 (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> == 2012-07-03 (weekly) ==
<bjf> Currently we have 92 CVEs on our radar, with zero CVE retired this week.
<bjf> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (July 3):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.102 - In the grinder; 1 CVEs (4 commits)
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.91  - In the grinder; 2 CVEs (2 commits)
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-15.61  - In the grinder; 2 CVEs (2 commits)
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-22.36   - In the grinder; 3 upstream stable release (approx. 92 commits)
<bjf>  * Precise  - 3.2.0-26.41   - In the grinder; 2 upstream stable release (approx. 360 commits)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>  
<bjf> The week of Sept. 6 is the week the last Natty kernel will be
<bjf> built.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  3 17:04:21 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-03-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-03-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-04
<cjwatson> Hi folks
<ev> hi!
<jodh> o/
 * stgraber waves
 * ogra_ waves
<infinity> \o
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul  4 15:02:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson ev ogra jodh stgraber infinity xnox)
<cjwatson> xnox stgraber ev infinity cjwatson ogra jodh
<cjwatson> I think I remembered the set of people who're off today correctly
<xnox> i am first for the first time
<xnox> ubiquity-lvm auto install works with UI, apart from the install fails
<xnox> due to new bug #1020574
<xnox> did patch piloting, see report on the mailing list
<xnox> got access to HPCloud together with a few other devs, started to
<xnox> jujufy collab-qa/cloud-scripts.git for launching archive rebuilds. The
<xnox> goal is full archive rebuild in 8 hours (excluding libreoffice).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020574 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "SystemError: Broken pipe while installing language packs" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020574
<xnox> got panda board, didn't install it
<xnox> two packages left for boost1.49: player (quick fix), and ball (FTBFS
<xnox> with gcc4.7 and gcc4.6, and python-moc)
<cjwatson> lvm auto install> well done, good start :)
<cjwatson> (is there a branch somewhere for it?)
 * xnox should push
<xnox> after removing swear words from commit messages
<xnox> i am in the office today
<xnox> and will be working with mpt for the second part of the week on the RAID and LUKS design
<xnox> ..
<stgraber> Short week, Monday was a public holiday (Canada day).
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Some bugfixes in quantal, rebased the API branch and PPA on that.
<stgraber>  - Started preparing the next SRU (got 4-5 fixes already).
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Migrated package testing content from staging tracker to production tracker.
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Went through all the bugs related to the network stack (netbase, isc-dhcp, ifupdown, resolvconf, vlan, ifenslave-2.6, iproute).
<stgraber>  - Merged isc-dhcp, ifupdown, netbase and resolvconf.
<stgraber>  - Synced bridge-utils (no more delta!).
<stgraber>  - Started going through the bugs for ppp and libnl-3.
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Alpha-2 release on Thursday.
<stgraber>  - Updated casper, fixing bug 1013843 and adding proper support for cifs boot.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013843 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "resolv.conf empty when doing PXE installations" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013843
<stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Some ISO tracker improvements (and getting IS to deploy)
<stgraber>  - Finish reviewing/triaging ppp and libnl-3 bugs, then start looking at SRUs for the network packages.
<stgraber>  - Go through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
<stgraber> (DONE)
<ev> - Took a few passes with great reviews from pitti, but I've finally finished
<ev>   writing the error reports from application hangs feature in apport and
<ev>   merged it into trunk.
<ev> - Wrote support for the apport application hangs into compiz. Just tidying up
<ev>   and will submit for review later today.
<ev> - Started investigating the implementation work for the new debconf dialogs:
<ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#debconf
<ev> - Started writing my trip report for the Software Experts Summit. Nearly done.
<ev> (done)
<infinity> * This past week:
<infinity>  - Finished up my +1 maint month
<infinity>  - Did some SRU work, including a big round of kernel updates
<infinity>  - Celebrated Canada Day with beer and poutine
<infinity>  - Fixed some ARM issues in both Debian and Ubuntu
<infinity>  - Investigated GNU R breakage on ARM, made progress
<infinity>  - Started setting up Britney on my local network
<infinity> * Upcoming week:
<infinity>  - More Britney fiddling
<infinity>  - eglibc SRUs for a few issues
<infinity>  - DebConf
<infinity>  - Naps
<infinity> â
<cjwatson> Did the half-started pile of branches I had lying around for britney help at all?
<infinity> cjwatson: I've not actually looked at your half-started branches yet.  Nor do I remember where you half put them. ;)
<cjwatson> lillypilly:~cjwatson/proposed-migration/
<infinity> (Yesterday was the first chance I really had to dive in much at all, now that I no longer have minions interrupting me)
<cjwatson> All my state was there
<cjwatson> Well, if you want to pair-hack on it for a while at some point, I'm available - or not, if that'd be a distraction :)
<infinity> Shiny.  Will look when awake.
<cjwatson> UEFI:
<cjwatson>  * efilinux menu patch landed.
<cjwatson>  * Launchpad custom-uefi branch landed.  QA in progress.
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  * Fixed bug 795005 (although not usable until another bug is fixed, since that other bug means that copies to PPAs are currently disabled).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 795005 in Launchpad itself "Asynchronous PPA copying with default series OOPSes" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795005
<cjwatson>  * Split up my queue-api branch into several smaller branches and started getting those reviewed and landed:
<cjwatson>   * New name, version, and exact_match parameters to DistroSeries.getPackageUploads (deployed).
<cjwatson>   * Refactor PackageUpload.overrideBinaries interface for performance (deployed).
<cjwatson>   * Export read-only properties and methods on PackageUpload (in QA).
<cjwatson> Installer:
<cjwatson>  * Added some more fonts to desktop installs by default to support languages offered by the installer (bug 1015483).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015483 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubiquity-dm: 2 language names wrongly displayed (missing font?)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015483
<cjwatson>  * Fixed another bit of python-apt 0.8 API porting (bug 1018759).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018759 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError: update() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018759
<cjwatson>  * Fixed non-cylinder alignment on GPT (bug 1006894).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006894 in partman-base (Ubuntu Precise) "Partitions are misaligned when using GPT on disks w/ 4096 byte physical sectors" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006894
<cjwatson>  * Verified some old installer SRUs.
<cjwatson>  * Fixed incorrect removal of /var/lib/mysql and /var/lib/mythtv on live CD upgrade (bug 992241).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992241 in partman-target (Ubuntu Precise) "Upgrading using the live cd wipes /var/lib/mythtv/*" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992241
<cjwatson> Image building:
<cjwatson>  * Got point release candidate images building with -proposed (bug 1019514).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019514 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Need to be able to generate images with -proposed in sources.list" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019514
<cjwatson> Other:
<cjwatson>  * Fixed bash to stop hardcoding command-not-found's interpreter.
<cjwatson>  * Fixed pending-triggers detection in dpkg-reconfigure (bug 1018884).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018884 in debconf (Ubuntu) "debconf: setting console triggers update-initramfs" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018884
<cjwatson>  * Usual round of syncs and merges.
<cjwatson>  * Endless flow of archive admin.
<cjwatson>  * Got a compose key working, several years after everyone else.  In celebration:
<cjwatson> â­
<cjwatson> (best compose key sequence evah)
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * tried to debug plymouth issues on various arm images (ongoing)
<ogra_> * banging my head against an ac100 kernel/image issue (upgrades work, images fail booting with a kernel panic)
<ogra_> * ac100 image build debugging
<ogra_> * plenty of kernel testing on omap4
<ogra_> * booked flight for QA sprint end of the month
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * foundations-q-hwpack-integration
<ogra_> * finally get ac100 to work all over again
<ogra_> * look at what QA wants to have set up during the sprint
<ogra_> (your preferred utf-8 end sign here)
<jodh> * boot/upstart: stateful re-exec work:
<jodh>   - Made code 64-bit safe (time-consuming due to awkwardness of JSON-C).
<jodh>   - Currently working on Job serialisation and all its associated
<jodh>     tentacles.
<jodh> * misc: on holiday Friday 6th and next week.
<jodh> â¿
<jodh>  
<stgraber> cjwatson: good to hear the -proposed change landed, I'll test a desktop image later this week so we can get ubiquity out of proposed
<xnox> ogra_: (in text2speech audio description ;-) )
<cjwatson> stgraber: Yeah, I've tried a couple of times but for some reason was having trouble getting it to use a proxy at all
<ogra_> *g*
<xnox> cjwatson: can't you pressed the proxy via apt.conf setting or via debconf.
<xnox> ?
<cjwatson> Yes, I did
<xnox> =(
<xnox> ok
<cjwatson> Something was weird and I didn't get a chance to investigate properly
<jodh> ogra_: what are the plymouth issues out of interest?
<stgraber> IIRC ubiquity is supposed to pick it up from gsettings, but that's a part of the code that I touched quite a while ago and isn't widely tested (if at all)
<cjwatson> I had a suspicion maybe the python-apt code in scripts/{plugin,}install wasn't picking up the setting or something, but it was just a guess
<ogra_> jodh, one is an issue with the omap4 kernel providing a drm device but not attaching it to any output ...
<cjwatson> Maybe setting it in the live session's apt.conf as well as preseeding it would help, for the purposes of getting this verified
<ogra_> jodh, the other is still unidentified (still trying to fix the kernel issue on ac100 first)
 * xnox so it's the network's transparent proxy which is borked... since there is no obvious way to force proxy usage. Can it be done outside of the VM for example..
<cjwatson> #topic bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bugs
<cjwatson> Steve asked me if we could have a quick look through some of the 12.04.1 targeted bugs and make sure that (a) any that should be on target are (b) any that we shouldn't care about aren't on the list
<xnox> from the subset of ~foundations subscribed/assigned/personal?
<cjwatson> stgraber: Does https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone=49926 match the list you're working from?
<xnox> or just all the 12.04.1?
<cjwatson> xnox: the above is the URL Steve gave me
<stgraber> cjwatson: I guess I'll simply make that perl script the transparent proxy for that VM, that's a pretty simple iptables rule
<cjwatson> stgraber: That should work, yeah
<stgraber> cjwatson: yep, that's the one
<cjwatson> I picked out a few categories from that
<cjwatson> There's the multi-arch bugs, which IIRC stokachu has moderately well in hand, although he's presumably out celebrating independence today
<cjwatson> (bug 977940, bug 977964, bug 977947, bug 977952, bug 977959)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977940 in gnome-vfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition gnome-vfs to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977964 in libart-lgpl (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libart-lgpl to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977964
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977959 in libgnome (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnome to multi-arch" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977959
<cjwatson> There's the bugs that I put in category "xnox"
<cjwatson> bug 978012, bug 1002357, bug 1009973, bug 1017407, bug 942106, bug 968074, bug 969384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978012 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please SRU micro bug fix release of e2fsprogs 1.42.4-3ubuntu1 (main) from Quantal (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002357 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "sort out udev rules madness (3 editions installed into 4 files)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002357
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1009973 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "SRU upstream bugfix micro point release 3.2.5" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1009973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017407 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "should copy /etc/udev/ rule if available" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017407
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942106 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "software raid doesn't assemble before mount on boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942106
<xnox> cjwatson: so the mdadm SRU for all of these got rejected, because of being overenthusiastic.
<cjwatson> and there's everything else
<cjwatson> bug 523896, bug 683640, bug 946406, bug 970638, bug 974584, bug 994575, bug 1003842, bug 1006898, bug 1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683640 in lsb (Ubuntu Quantal) "status_of_proc is returning incorrect error code" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946406 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "suspect race condition Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 970638 in psmisc (Ubuntu Precise) "killall can't kill processes with fairly long names (Ubuntu 12.04)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<xnox> cjwatson: the e2fsprogs SRU is pending review from infinity, but it potentially also needs cleaning up.
<cjwatson> And apparently ubottu has rate-limited me, sigh
<cjwatson> xnox: So are each of the non-microrelease bugs on mdadm still good targets, or are you going to pare that down?
<cjwatson> As in, is it a matter of backporting specific patches?
<stgraber> bug 946406 might be related to bug 985065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946406 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "suspect race condition Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985065 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu Precise) "Can't use fr/oss keyboard layout by default" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985065
<cjwatson> Meh, I'll take that psmisc one, since I've been uploading the quantal merges anyway
<infinity> It looks straightforward.
<xnox> cjwatson: yes they are. i need to revert a couple of patches from the micro-release of mdadm and it should be good to go.
<xnox> those that change interfaces.
<cjwatson> stgraber: There's a cluster of four dnsmasq and resolvconf bugs; are you happy with all of those being listed?
<ev> cjwatson: I've tidied up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity
<stgraber> cjwatson: I need to go through them but it's very unlikely we'll fix them as they'd be pretty significant behaviour changes, IIRC most of them are linked to NM and so should be somewhere on cyphermox's list
<cjwatson> OK, I'll assume you'll shift the milestone if you nack them, then
<stgraber> yep
<cjwatson> Sigh, LP's assignee listings are unhelpful for this list
<cjwatson> (some of the Nones are lies)
<stgraber> I'll try to do some nagging this week, making sure the various teams assign the bugs they're planning to work on or move the bugs to another milestone
<cjwatson> Does anyone know about bug 683640?  It's currently milestoned for 12.04.1 and also rls-q-notfixing, which seems like an unlikely combination
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683640 in lsb (Ubuntu Quantal) "status_of_proc is returning incorrect error code" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683640
<xnox> cjwatson: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04.1
<xnox> but it's not the whole truth
<cjwatson> Right, I know there are various possibilities but I explicitly want to work off the same list as Steve so that I'm not missing things
<xnox> ok
<cjwatson> Bug 974584 (sysvinit) and bug 523896 (shadow) appear to need assignees; any volunteers?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<infinity> I can try to poke at the shadow bug, though I have some eglibc SRUs that trump it for urgency.
<stgraber> the sysvinit one is being worked on by slangasek/hallyn
<xnox> ev: bug 994921
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994921 in apport (Ubuntu Quantal) "'ubuntu-bug /var/crash/app.crash' (and even more so, 'apport-cli -c /var/crash/app.crash') should still allow manual bug filing in stable releases" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994921
<ev> xnox: cheers
<cjwatson> stgraber: Neither of whom is assigned, but OK ...
<cjwatson> Ah, he's assigned to the lxc task, not the sysvinit one
<cjwatson> OK
<stgraber> cjwatson: yeah, I'll poke him for a status update on that bug tomorrow and to figure out who of slangasek and hallyn is actually working on it
<stgraber> IIRC there's a fix that landed in Debian (or in the vcs branch) but that slangasek then considered wrong, so it's still being discussed
<cjwatson> ev: wiki> thanks, much better
<ev> cjwatson: sure thing
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> Anything else?
<ev> nope!
<ogra_> not here
<xnox> Happy Canada Day!
<xnox>   _
<xnox>  (_)
<xnox>   |______________________________________
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&                        &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&                        &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&                        &&&&&&&|
 * ogra_ looks for a maple leaf shirt
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&         .\^/.          &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&       . |&&&| .        &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&       |\|&&&|/|        &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&    .--'&&&&&&&'--.     &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&     \&&&&&&&&&&&/      &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&      >&&&&&&&&&<       &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&     '~|/~~|~~\|~'      &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&           |            &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&                        &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&                        &&&&&&&|
<xnox>   |&&&&&&&________________________&&JGS&&|
<xnox>   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<xnox>   |
<xnox>   |
<infinity> I'm pretty insulted by that awful ASCII art.
<xnox>   |
<xnox>   |
<xnox>   |
<xnox>   |
<xnox>   |
<xnox>   |
 * xnox =(
<cjwatson> all right, thanks all, safe travels to debconf if you're going; better close the meeting before we get any more ascii art :)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul  4 15:43:32 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-04-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-04-15.02.html
<infinity> o/
<ogra_> thanks cjohnston
<jodh> thanks!
<ogra_> err
<xnox> thanks
<ev> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks cjwatson
<stgraber> thanks!
<xnox> ogra_: there is the setting for doing auto-completion by frequency not alphabetically
<ogra_> huh ? there is ?
<infinity> There is.
 * ogra_ looks at his xchat options
<ogra_> oh, wow !
<ogra_> thanks so much, i didnt know
<xnox> ogra_: thanks for switching me to xchat and actually make me learn/read the available options
<ogra_> heh
<Angana> hi
<highvoltage> ogra_: what did xnox switch away from!?
 * inetpro hiding in a corner to do some lurking
<inetpro> highvoltage: you don't have a meeting here now?
<stgraber> google seems to agree that we have a meeting :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> pong!
<highvoltage> hi everyone!
<highvoltage> sorry, was distracted by mgariepy (who should be here too :p)
<stgraber> ... :)
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> stgraber: while mgariepy is distracting me further, do you have any technical updates / website updates you can share so long?
<stgraber> not a whole lot, as I mentioned in #edubuntu earlier, I triggered another armhf build
<stgraber> that's available at: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20120704/
<stgraber> it's still installing on my panda here but looks good so far
<stgraber> please note that even though this build is for omap4, we won't be supporting this as a target hardware
<stgraber> omap4 is just the only thing I have hardware for, we'll be switching to Allwinner A10 when we get the hardware
<stgraber> I've also been spending some time working on Edubuntu server
<stgraber> I still need to blog about the details, but the main bridge is now available at: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/edubuntu/edubuntu-server
<stgraber> the tools don't do a whole lot yet, but the parameters and overall design shouldn't change much
<highvoltage> cool, I was talking to bencer earlier and he said he'd have the zentyal packages ready for alpha3
<stgraber> sounds good
<highvoltage> oh and we also have a new website :)
<stgraber> gah, ubiquity just exploded on the panda ;)
<stgraber> ogra_: any known issue with the bootloader installation on quantal? :)
<stgraber> oh, looks like it could be my fault ;) "No bootloader installer found"
<stgraber> sounds like we might be missing an entry in the seeds ;)
<highvoltage> ok mgariepy is going back to his desk :)
<highvoltage> in other news, the edubuntu.org site now has a deployments page:
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/deployments
<highvoltage> which should help answer people's question on "who uses edubuntu?" (that is, when it eventually becomes more populated)
<highvoltage> we also have our first google+ hangout on the 25th
<highvoltage> topic is tablets: https://plus.google.com/events/c81pnsbk7qbi501h5vd127a87ak/106512410045218522565
<highvoltage> by then we should finally have our zatab tablets. we ran into some problems ordering but at least that's all sorted out.
<highvoltage> from a project point of view, we've also finalised the edubuntu project sponsorship process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Sponsorship
<highvoltage> we still need to talk about it with the right people within the ubuntu project and possibly canonical before making it completely official and live
<highvoltage> other than that, that's a quick list of updates that jumps to mind. I'll send it to the edubuntu-devel list as well to keep everyone up to date.
<highvoltage> any questions? doesn't seem like there's anyone except me and stgraber anyway, we could probably adjourne.
<stgraber> tracked down the arm issue, even though it was generated a few minutes ago, contains outdated binaries...
<highvoltage> weird. ok. end of meeting then! We'll be back in #edubuntu as usual.
<stgraber> not too weird actually, used the wrong project name on nusakan, so it built a dvd livefs but was then asked to build a .img for daily-live, so it picked up the last known livefs for daily-live (from mid-June)
<stgraber> I'm now letting the rest of that dvd-for-armhf build continue to see if it actually works, if it fails, I'll just kick a proper daily-live build
<highvoltage> I actually want to test that deployments submission page again
<highvoltage> I'm kind of surprised we didn't get more submissions after the initial bunch
<highvoltage> inetpro: oh, and thanks for the reminder, I just scrolled up all the way just now for the logs :)
<inetpro> highvoltage: eh
<inetpro> highvoltage: will you keep using the G+ events thing for scheduling meetings?
<highvoltage> inetpro: yep, I think they work quite well
<inetpro> will be interesting to see over time how useful they are
<highvoltage> inetpro: I'd like to add more structure to the monthly meetings again, just ran out of time for that this time :)
<highvoltage> *nod*
<inetpro> highvoltage: no stress, the only reason I came in here was because I got a reminder on my mobile phone after having set "Maybe" for the meeting invite
<inetpro> so I guess it can be useful
<inetpro> good to see that things are still moving ahead at edubuntu
<inetpro> stgraber, highvoltage: BTW, I like your new site
<stgraber> thanks
<highvoltage> inetpro: heh, I guess I would've gotten a reminder on my phone too if I haven't hit my monthly data usage yet :)
<highvoltage> (or if I just remembered to enabled wifi this morning)
<phillw> hi jmarsden do you know if there's a lubuntu meeting tonight?
<jmarsden> I was expecing one, since most folks are not in the USA... but... not many people here...
<jmarsden> I've not been able to be on at the time of meetings the last week or two, so I don't know what was decided last week if anything about that.
<phillw> there was no meeting last week, the week before I was emergency holographic chair.
<jmarsden> phillw: So I guess folks have decided we aren't meeting this week.  In a way it makes sense -- we need packages uploaded that really affect Lubuntu users before we can meet to talk about them :)
<jmarsden> Once new LXDE stuff is uploaded there will be things worth discussing.
<phillw> jmarsden: yeah, I'm looking forward to it all arriving :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-05
 * bdrung will be afk for some minutes
<czajkowski> beuno: cprofitt shall we get started
<beuno> sure thing
<cprofitt> sure
<czajkowski> which one of you would like to chair :)
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  5 17:06:33 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> todays agenda
<czajkowski> welcome to the CC meeting
<czajkowski> so who is here from the DMB ?
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<tumbleweed> hi
<micahg> hi
 * stgraber waves
<czajkowski> hey folks thanks for coming
<czajkowski> so in past meetings and in the last cycle we've invited boards to come along and just give us an inforaml update on how things are going, any issues and if we can help in any way
<czajkowski> so bdrung cody-somerville Laney micahg tumbleweed stgraber care to update us
<micahg> so, overall, think we're doing ok, I think we've only missed quorum twice in the last 6 months
<czajkowski> that's not bad at all.
<beuno> apologies for the stupid question, but meeting how often?
<tumbleweed> we limited the number of candidates per meeting, which also seems to have helped streamline things
<micahg> beuno: once a fortnight
<czajkowski> tumbleweed: oh nice idea. how does that work ?
<tumbleweed> 2 per meeting
 * bdrung is back
<tumbleweed> our meetings used to run towards 2 hours each
<czajkowski> tumbleweed: so limit the number of applicants and increase meeting frequency has worked?
<tumbleweed> frequency has stayed the same
<tumbleweed> but we used to have people hanging around, hoping we'd get to them
<tumbleweed> now it's obvious before the meeting who is goin gto be processed
<cprofitt> is there a backlog of applicants?
<micahg> just DMB members at this point
<tumbleweed> we wish :(
<tumbleweed> applications are slowing
<beuno> tumbleweed, why do you think that's happening?
<tumbleweed> there haven't been many new contributors recently, that I've seen
<beuno> anything that can be done to improve that?  does it need improving?
<micahg> well, for a while it seemed like the MOTU community has stalled
<tumbleweed> fortunately, that's outside our control (as a board) so we should probably concentrate on other issues
<micahg> there were several sessions at UDS and I think we're hoping that the reinvigoration will lead to more applicants
<micahg> dholbach has been a great help in getting these things going again
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> are there any areas we the CC can help in ?
<micahg> also, now that we have a smoother sponsorship process, as well as the number of contributors increasing, I'm hoping that in time we'll get more applicants
 * ScottK thinks that over the long run things like PPAs and extras.ubuntu.com have reduced the incentive to get involved in the distro.
<micahg> ScottK: yeah, well, the ARB is good about redirecting when appropriate
<Laney> oops, this is now
<ScottK> Yes, but it'd have been 100% redirect before (effectively).
<Laney> hello :-)
<micahg> and as for PPAs, I wanted to start talking to people running specific PPAs to see if they're interested in distro work
<micahg> with backports being more active, that's a big help as well
<ScottK> I've asked in the past and the response has generally been something like "why should I bother - the PPA solves my problem."
<cprofitt> that sounds promising micahg and ScottK
<bdrung> PPAs helped me when I started contributing to Ubuntu.
<micahg> well, for the people doing stuff for themselves, you probably won't get traction, but for people trying to help others, they might be interested in reaching a larger audience, also with backports enabled by default in oneiric+, that's a big impetus to use backports vs PPAs
<ScottK> bdrung: I'm not saying PPAs aren't useful.  They are very much so, but they also have their costs.
<tumbleweed> I'm frequently amazed by the number of PPAs people use. There must be people there worth attracting
<micahg> yeah, it should probably be the developer advisory board that follows up on the PPA people
<bdrung> ScottK: Distro work requires sustainable contribution. PPA allow to just do one thing and then forget about it.
<cprofitt> I rarely use PPAs
<czajkowski> tumbleweed: indeed!
<czajkowski> so many people use them
<micahg> bdrung: well, no, people can do one off distro contributions as well if it suits their need
<micahg> upload rights require sustained contribution
<bdrung> blog post like http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/07/how-to-upgrade-to-the-latest-vlc-release-in-ubuntu-12-04 do not help
<micahg> right, well, I didn't see a backport request for vlc 2.0.2 :)
<bdrung> micahg: we are more interested in sustained contribution if someone wants to get a new package in the archive
<micahg> bdrung: sure, but I think a lot of PPAs are just the newest version of foo in the archiv
<bdrung> micahg: i want 2.0.2 in precise-security or -updates
<micahg> bdrung: that probably won't happen unless you go for an MRE (but that's for another discussion)
<bdrung> MRE?
<micahg> MicroRelease Exception
<ScottK> Micro Release Exception.
<joshuahoover> ralsina: any ideas on how to help a 11.10 user who is showing this in the syncdaemon log: ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.StorageClient - INFO - Connection lost, reason:  [Failure instance: Traceback (failure with no frames): <class  'OpenSSL.SSL.Error'>: [('SSL routines',  'SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE', 'certificate verify failed')]
<micahg> so, back to the CC, we were wondering about the 6 month requirement for membership with regard to contributing developer
<czajkowski> so moving back to the DMB checkup, is there anything else you wish to say
<czajkowski> joshuahoover: wrong channel!
<micahg> joshuahoover: this is a meeting channel :)
<joshuahoover> czajkowski, micahg: sorry about that!
<czajkowski> micahg: do you want to increase or decrease it or what is the issue?
<ralsina> joshuahoover: dobey's symlink trick?
 * beuno slaps ralsina 
<ralsina> beuno: oops
<micahg> czajkowski: well, basically, is it a hard requirement or is it just a nice to have
<ScottK> micahg: Isn't that more of a guidelane than a rule?
<micahg> ScottK: that's what we're asking :)
<ScottK> (Speaking as a Kubuntu Council member who decides such stuff I've always thought it was a guideline)
<czajkowski> micahg: well has it helped or do you think your numbers would be higher if it were reduced or removed?
<micahg> czajkowski: to be honest, we haven't had many applicants going for that
<tumbleweed> ScottK: we do treat it as a guideline. But there are times when there is very little sustained contribution, but PPU still seems like a reasonable thing to grant
<czajkowski> micahg: can you elaborate ?
<cprofitt> where is the requirement for six months listed?
<micahg> czajkowski: we don't get a lot of applicants for dev membership without upload rights
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Personally I very uncomfortable with non-members being Ubuntu developers.
<ScottK> I also think significant and sustained are important parts of the requirement.
<micahg> ScottK: so, I take it you don't like the DM process?
<ScottK> micahg: I'd feel better if PPU weren't part of ubuntu-dev.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: which would make them not members
<micahg> cprofitt: on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership, it says that it's rare for an application to be accepted with < 6 months of contributions
<ScottK> Right, don't make them members without significant and sustained contributions.
<micahg> ScottK: so would I :), that's the second point I wanted to bring up, but the DMB is still trying to find consensus on
<cprofitt> micahg: how long does it take to get upload rights?
<ScottK> I think having them not necessarily be ubuntu-dev/members makes PPU more like DM.
<micahg> cprofitt: that depends on the second point which I wanted to bring up of decoupling upload rights from membership
<cprofitt> micahg: I would think that getting several sponsored uploads would take a while... is it frequent that a person accomplishes this under six months?
<micahg> cprofitt: it can be done in a matter of weeks
<micahg> err..several sponsored uploads
<ScottK> If one is already a DD, it could (technically) be very fast.
<cprofitt> to be honest I am more concerned with sustained activity than anything
<tumbleweed> ScottK: in that case, granting membership is more straightforward, I think
<micahg> but upload rights require good working knowledge of what's being applied for, that can be either a short time or a long one depending on the person
<cprofitt> I think we want to avoid a person who is really excited about 'package x' gets several uploads done... goes for membership and then loses the momentum
<micahg> but generally, we want to see someone go through an entire dev cycle (6 months) to see how the freeze schedule works
<ScottK> tumbleweed: I disagree.  I think granting upload rights for packages they maintain is pretty straightforward.  I don't think that also means membership is straightforward.
<cprofitt> I agree there may be situations that merit things moving faster
<bdrung> ScottK: that's where decoupled upload rights and membership is a benefit
<ScottK> yes.
<ScottK> (for PPU)
<czajkowski> tumbleweed: micahg Laney is there anything you want to follow up post this meeting as we do seem to have gone off track here from the check up
<tumbleweed> ScottK: yes. It does depend on the situation. I also recall debian people who care about their packages in Ubuntu and fix the bugs in debian, so there are few uploads but clear development-related involvement in our community
<bdrung> the question is: are we allowed to grant PPU without membership?
<czajkowski> what needs to be followed up on and posisbly reviewed
<Laney> Sorry I forgot to pay attention as I was on the phone to the stupid gas company sorting out readings
 * Laney grumbles
<ScottK> bdrung: I suspect that's a TB question, but I'm not sure.
<Laney> do we have a resolution?
<Laney> I think membership is a CC thing.
<Laney> I've come around to kind of liking the idea of decoupling it. People can apply for both simultaneously if they want.
<micahg> exactly
<beuno> so
<beuno> conceptually
<beuno> would we want casual contributors?
<Laney> want for what?
<bdrung> Laney: core-dev, MOTU should infer membership
<beuno> as a healthy project
<cprofitt> Laney: micahg: ScottK:
<micahg> bdrung: yes
<Laney> bdrung: yes
<tumbleweed> beuno: sustained casual contributors seem to be candidates fro membership
<tumbleweed> drive-by, not so much
<beuno> right
<micahg> beuno: of course, that's what the sponsorship process is for
<cprofitt> I think you folks should discuss this and arrange to meet with the CC again about this issue
<beuno> if they are sustained, then the qualify for membership
<Laney> I think you should tell us if we're allowed to decouple it in principle and then we don't need to come back
<micahg> +1
<cprofitt> I think you should formulate a desired outcome and plan to achieve it and then have the CC take a look at it
<cprofitt> there appears to be a great deal of depth in this topic
<tumbleweed> I think the plan is very straightforward: Make PPU not imply membership
<micahg> membership requires sustained contribution, upload rights require proficiency
<Laney> It would make it easier to let us grant people PPU
<beuno> but not sustained?
<tumbleweed> currently we evaluate the PPU rights, and the membership goes along for free. But we don't think that's fair on the other members who had to prove themselves
<Laney> just enough for us to be convinced that they know what they're doing
<micahg> beuno: not necessarily (Debian Developers are the easiest example)
<cprofitt> can we move to any other topics you have?
<beuno> so, lets pick this up again
<micahg> those 2 were it AIUI
<Laney> So what we'd do is remove ~ubuntumembers from ~ubuntu-dev
<beuno> schedule it
<Laney> err, the other way around
<beuno> I think it's absolutely worth discussing, if you guys feel it would help
<Laney> Or, think about whether these people should be in ubuntu-dev at all.
<beuno> just need to weigh in long-term effects a bit more
<micahg> Laney: well, it's a little more complicated than that
<Laney> Maybe /that/ is a question for the TB.
<czajkowski> beuno: perhaps email as our schedule is done for a few weeks
<tumbleweed> I don't know of any other pressing questions from our side
<beuno> sure, email works
<czajkowski> I think we should follow this up after the meeting via email to discuss this further
<czajkowski> #action beuno to start a thread with the DMB and CC to discuss the topics that have come from todays meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: beuno to start a thread with the DMB and CC to discuss the topics that have come from todays meeting
<czajkowski> :)
<beuno> look at that, I win a task!  :)
<beuno> well played
<czajkowski> hey I got landed with chairing I feel the need to share the love!
<czajkowski> right moving on
<czajkowski> #topic Juju Governance
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Juju Governance
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/talk
<czajkowski> jcastro: ping
<jcastro> hi
<czajkowski> really that link isn't helpful
<beuno> https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmReviewBoard
<jcastro> sorry I didn't know how to link the header
<jcastro> it's the top paragraph but it's not really as important as the link beuno just posted
<czajkowski> #link  https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmReviewBoard
<beuno> thanks btw, Laney, micahg, tumbleweed, ScottK  :)
<czajkowski> jcastro: so how did this idea come about
<czajkowski> and who would it be aimed at
<jcastro> right so the idea would basically be for juju to be like everything else in ubuntu
<jcastro> since the charm store is analogous to an archive
<jcastro> and has it's own policies and all that, then it would make sense to have it governed in the same way as ubuntu itself
<jcastro> we've basically been doing that the entire time
<jcastro> but there was no escalation process, nor a policy that was official or anything
<jcastro> it was just a bunch of us kind of self-governing ourselves.
<jcastro> which is fine when you're small, but at some point we needed to tighten things up and codify these things, hence this document
<beuno> +1 from me, really. Makes a lot of sense, it's well layed out.
<cprofitt> +1 from me as well... nice job to those who contributed
<jcastro> it's mostly a clone of the existing forums process
<jcastro> since I didn't want to be special, just another board. :)
<czajkowski> jcastro: so would members have to be Ubuntu members and or juju developers?
<jcastro> they would have to be ubuntu members
<jcastro> and in order to even review charms they need to be in the ~charmers group
<czajkowski> #link https://launchpad.net/~charmers
<beuno> which is different from a juju dev, yes>
<czajkowski> so there is atm 26 people and 4 pending
<beuno> ?
<jcastro> yes
<beuno> right, makes sense
<czajkowski> what's the difference as I'm unsure
<ScottK> I see charms have listed maintainers.  Is that a strong maintainer like in Debian or more like a primary point of contact?
<jcastro> primarily a POC right now
<jcastro> we're trying to make it more of a strong maintainership
<jcastro> but we didn't have maintainers when it started
<jcastro> so when it came down to "claim your charm!" a few people bailed
<ScottK> That's a bit different than we do in Ubuntu with package maintainership.
<cprofitt> so if I get this right... there would be Juju devs, Juju reviewers and the Juju Council?
<jcastro> it's a board
<jcastro> so there are juju core devs
<jcastro> who may or may not be ubuntu members
<jcastro> and then the ~charmers, which are reviewers
<cprofitt> so if I get this right... there would be Juju devs, Juju reviewers and the Juju Board... that is correct?
<micahg> I thought juju was bigger than Ubuntu, is this not the case?
<jcastro> and the review board would be made up of ~charmers
 * cprofitt nods
<jcastro> micahg: what do you mean?
<micahg> jcastro: more encompassing
<jcastro> sure, it can be
<cprofitt> micahg: it is certainly bigger than Ubuntu, but there is also an Ubuntu part of it
<jcastro> but we still need a process for say, escalation, etc.
<beuno> sounds great to me
<cprofitt> me as well jcastro
<beuno> czajkowski?
<czajkowski> it's intersting that;s fore sure
<czajkowski> but there are only 3 of us here from the CC today
<czajkowski> so I think we should follow up on this with the others via email
<czajkowski> any other comments regarding the juju board?
<micahg> shouldn't the Ubuntu/non-Ubuntu things be clarified since wouldn't the CC only have authority over the Ubuntu part of the ecosystem
<czajkowski> micahg: yup thats one thing I want to clarify with the CC
<czajkowski> but ther are only 3/8 here atm
<czajkowski> sorry 3/7
<czajkowski> grr 8
<czajkowski> anything else folks?
<micahg> either way, no quorum :)
<czajkowski> micahg: bingo :)
<beuno> I'm tempted to not have meetings with no quorum
<beuno> but, the future
<beuno> is that a wrap up?
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  5 18:06:35 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-05-17.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-05-17.06.html
<beuno> czajkowski, so you'll take this one?
<czajkowski> beuno: will do
<beuno> cool
<beuno> thank you everybody!
<czajkowski> thanks folks
<czajkowski> <-- dinner
<micahg> thanks czajkowski, beuno
<s-fox> ping negronjl  :)
<negronjl> Hello
<negronjl> s-fox: pong
<s-fox> hey negronjl , we're just waiting for our quorum of 4. Seem to be thin on the ground at the minute. Sorry :)
<negronjl> No worries.
<s-fox> okay, i think we have 4... show of hands please for the  meeting
<Pendulum> o/
<hggdh> o/
<s-fox> o/
<iulian> ... and me.
<s-fox> to be different ;)
 * iulian nods.
<hggdh> I almost gave my standard ~Ã´~
<s-fox> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  5 22:03:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting - 22:00 UTC
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting - 22:00 UTC
<s-fox> Okay let's start :)
<s-fox> negronjl is applying for ubuntu membership , can you please introduce yourself ?
<negronjl> Hi all.  I am Juan Negron (negronjl).  I currently work for Canonical as a systems integrations engineer
<s-fox> Thank you :)
<s-fox> negronjl,  the membership board had a question: why are you applying to the community board and not the developer board?
<negronjl> The devel board tgought it best to apply here so my juju contribs could be considered
<hggdh> yes, I remember it
<hggdh> (was fuzzy in the details, though)
<hggdh> negronjl: can you please give us the links to your Wiki and LP pages?
<negronjl> Wiki.ubuntu.com/JuanNegron
<negronjl> lp:~negronjl
<s-fox> Thank you :)
<s-fox> [VOTE] negronjl for ubuntu membership?
<meetingology> Please vote on: negronjl for ubuntu membership?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<hggdh> +1 without question! Of course, having the server team's testimonials did help ;-)
<meetingology> +1 without question! Of course, having the server team's testimonials did help ;-) received from hggdh
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<s-fox> sorry iulian is still reading :)
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: negronjl for ubuntu membership?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Congratulations negronjl  :)
<hggdh> negronjl: welcome!
<Pendulum> negronjl: congrats and welcome!
<s-fox> Thanks for coming everyone
<s-fox> [ENDMEETING]
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  5 22:15:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-05-22.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-05-22.03.html
<hggdh> negronjl: frankly your work on Juju more than justified you being a member
<s-fox> +1 hggdh
<negronjl> Thank you all :)
<s-fox> sorry for the slight delay negronjl :)
<hggdh> negronjl: you are welcome, and -- if I did not make myslef clear so far, I am glad you applied
<Daviey> negronjl: Well deserved !  Good to see you in.
<s-fox> negronjl,  i just added you to the launchpad group :)
<negronjl> Thanks again all ... glad to be here :)
<IdleOne> Congrats negronjl :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-06
<negronjl> thx IdleOne
<ogra_> foo
<pgraner> Release Meeting Time..
<pgraner> I'm standing in for skaet so please be gentle :)
<pgraner> Looks like most everyone is here so lets get going.... hopefully
<pgraner> #startmeeting
<pgraner> Agenda (and minute location):
<pgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-07-06
<pgraner> .
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jul  6 15:01:19 2012 UTC.  The chair is pgraner. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pgraner> Agenda (and minute location):
<pgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-07-06
<pgraner> .
<pgraner> Upcoming dates:
<pgraner> 2012/07/23 - Alpha 3 image candidates start
<pgraner> 2012/07/26 - Alpha 3
<pgraner> .
<pgraner> Work Items:
<pgraner> 2012/06/29 -  2763 (was 2782 last week):  We are on the trendline at this point.
<pgraner> .
<pgraner> Bugs:
<pgraner> Quantal:
<pgraner> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<pgraner> 12.04.1:http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<pgraner> .
<pgraner> Pending action items:
<pgraner> * [brendand] provide prioritized list of HW CERT targets for 12.04.1,
<pgraner> top 5, and prioritized order after that. (brendand, 20120629 15:12:00)
<pgraner>   * [skaet] email balloons, cc: seb128, TheMuso - getting accessibility
<pgraner>     community engaged on testing new GTK with ally enabled by default.
<pgraner>     (skaet, 20120629 15:19:00) - DONE - 20120629
<pgraner>   * [seb128] update on compiz ARM GLES plans (seb128, 20120629
<pgraner>     15:29:00)
<pgraner>   * [ogra_] find out arm java plans and lead (ogra_, 20120629 15:30:00)
<pgraner> .
<ogra_> whoops. did have a chance to talk to doko yet ... please carry over
<pgraner> ogra_, ack thanks
<ogra_> *didnt even
<pgraner> brendand, seb128, any updates?
<seb128> compiz gles is making good progresses
<brendand> pgraner, i will send a follow up to the hwcert email with those bugs. i have them now
<ogra_> \o/
 * ogra_ loves good progress
<brendand> i mean i will send the email to ubuntu-release, in response to my own email
<seb128> the gsettings work is mostly done so they focus on gles atm and it's getting in good shape
<ogra_> yay
<seb128> ..
<pgraner> seb128, do they have an ETA?
<seb128> 1 or 2 weeks before upload
<pgraner> brendand, ack
<ogra_> pgraner, A1 :P
<pgraner> seb128, thanks
<pgraner> ogra_, ouch
<pgraner> Ok moving on then...
<pgraner> Weekly Status Received:
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001495.html - hw cert: brendand
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001505.html - qa team: jibel
<pgraner> No report                                                              - community: balloons
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001497.html - security team: mdeslaur
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001503.html - kernel team: ogasawara
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001501.html - server team: arosales
<pgraner> No report                                                              - linaro: fabo
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001509.html - foundations: ogra
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001498.html - ubuntu one: joshuahoover
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001499.html - desktop team: seb128
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001508.html - unity team: popey
<pgraner> No report                                                              - kubuntu: jr
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001496.html - edbuntu: stgraber
<pgraner> No report                                                              - xubuntu: knome
<pgraner> No report                                                              - ubuntu studio: scott-work
<pgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001502.html - lubuntu: gilir
<pgraner> No report                                                              - mythbuntu: superm1
<pgraner> ** 2100 UTC - due time ^ Thank you to those who submitted on time **
<pgraner> ** Reminder,  please get your team's summary in by 2100 UTC, so there's time to prep, take care of issues on the mail list, and keep the meeting short.
<pgraner> .
<pgraner> #topic Questions and Comments.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Questions and Comments.
<pgraner> Any other team minutes that didn't make the cutoff?
<pgraner> Any other questions or comments, or can we put this meeting in the bag?
<pgraner> Going once...
<pgraner> twice...
<pgraner> thats it then.... thanks everyone!
<pgraner> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jul  6 15:09:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-06-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-06-15.01.html
<seb128> pgraner, thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks pgraner! :)
<arosales> Thanks pgraner for chairing
<popey> thanks
<ogra_> wow, short one
<ogra_> thanks !!
<stgraber> thanks!
<jibel> thanks !
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-01
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in five minutes
<tumbleweed> right
<tumbleweed> stgraber: are you around to chair?
<stgraber> tumbleweed: I'm around and can chair but I have a meeting in exactly an hour so we won't be able to go overtime
<Laney> sounds excellent to me
<tumbleweed> any excuse to avoid overtime meetings is good :)
<stgraber> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  1 15:00:44 2013 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<stgraber> everyone read and amend http://pad.ubuntu.com/dmb-ppu-membership-proposal, and sign up for the implementation tasks
<tumbleweed> that was going to go to the list
<tumbleweed> but it didn't
<tumbleweed> come bakc to it after applications? or really take it to the list this time?
<Laney> I amended it earlier in the hope that we could talk about it today
<barry> let's take care of the applicant first
<Laney> yes!
<stgraber> laney to update DD-PPU process to say that any ubuntu-dev is eligible
<stgraber> so that was done apparently
<Laney> 'take care'...
<Laney> yes, yes it was
<stgraber> tumbleweed to add louis-bouchard to universe-contributors
<tumbleweed> done
<stgraber> good
<stgraber> #topic MOTU Applications - Robie Basak
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: MOTU Applications - Robie Basak
<stgraber> rbasak: ping
<rbasak> Hello!
<stgraber> that application is also for server packageset, so we'll vote twice
<stgraber> rbasak: can you introduce yourself and your application(s)?
<rbasak> Sure! I'm Robie Basak. I've been working for Canonical on their server team for almost two years. I'm applying for MOTU and ubuntu-server-dev. My application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobieBasak/ServerDeveloperApplication
 * Daviey is of the opinion that rbasak's application is long since overdue, and he's fed up of his sponsors nagging him to do it himself.
<Laney> :-)
<stgraber> so once you are a MOTU you'll be able to upload any universe packages, when around a milestone such as the upcoming alpha-2, can you simply upload any universe package or are there extra things you should check?
<rbasak> If the package is seeded for a flavour that participates in the alpha, I will need to make sure that the upload doesn't interfere with a spin/respin. I'd check with #ubuntu-release in this case.
<stgraber> ok, how can you check if a package is seeded by a participating flavour?
<rbasak> The seeded-in-ubuntu command will tell me that.
<bdrung> rbasak: looking at http://askubuntu.com/questions/247479/how-do-i-check-whether-a-ppa-package-has-been-tampered-with/247489#247489, are you aware of the tools pull-lp-source and debdiff?
<rbasak> bdrung: yes, but there are specific reasons I didn't use those for my answer.
<bdrung> okay
<rbasak> pull-lp-source will pull from the development version, whereas I thought that people using that answer would be more likely to want to compare against, say, precise, or some upstream source directly. So I didn't feel that it was appropriate to use pull-lp-source there as I thought it was too specific.
<rbasak> And again to compare an upstream source against (say) a PPA package, then debdiff won't work as there would be no upstream dsc.
<barry> rbasak: hi.  i have a question about working with upstreams.  how engaged are you with debian and upstreams to forward bugs and fixes?  e.g. is this one a candidate for upstreaming?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailman/1:2.1.15-1ubuntu1  (wonder how that one caught me eye :)
<stgraber> rbasak: pull-lp-source <package> <series-pocket or version> :)
<rbasak> Well that one's a good example I think. In that case upstream is on Launchpad, so I filed upstream by adding the bug task. The dep3 headers reveal all ;)
<barry> rbasak: nice, thank you!
<rbasak> stgraber: sure, but it doesn't work for example when comparing a pristine upstream tarball to a PPA.
<rbasak> For Debian involvement, I usually file as far upstream as possible, and notify Debian if I think it would be of particular use to cherry-pick instead of waiting for a new upstream release.
<stgraber> rbasak: sure, was just commenting about the "pull-lp-source will pull from the development version" bit
<rbasak> I did that for an evolution/libical bug, for example.
<rbasak> stgraber: ah OK. Yeah, I use that quite a bit.
<barry> rbasak: thanks
<Laney> rbasak: About your "What I like least in Ubuntu" â who do you think would curate such a list?
<Laney> It sounds a bit like dholbach's harvest tool - do you know about that?
<rbasak> I've seen the harvest tool. I think that's the inverse of what I'm saying, though. harvest seems useful to me from an Ubuntu developer's perspective - for stuff that might be worth bundling in with an upload, for example.
<Laney> I think it's supposed to be both of those things
<rbasak> For non- Ubuntu developers, they just have a goal. Eg. there's a patch, and they'd like it in. We know about SRU policy, when we might introduce a delta vs. file upstream, etc, but outsiders don't necessarily know that. So I'd like some documentation that is indexed by task like that.
<Laney> So it's more about documentation than creating task lists?
<rbasak> Right. Completely about documentation, not about creating task lists at all.
<Laney> I see; I read it a bit differently
<Laney> Do you imagine you'll work on it or is it a wishlist? :-)
<Laney> I imagine it's something that would live on developer.ubuntu.com quite nicely
<bdrung> rbasak: have you talked with dholbach about improving the documentation?
<bdrung> i think it could fit into the packaging guide
<rbasak> Here's an example: bug 1160177 - 51 people affected, there's a patch, but no sign of anyone working to get it into Ubuntu. As a MOTU I'd be able to help, but I'm sure some of those people in the bug could do it too, but there's no single place to point them to that'll show them the SRU policy, how to look upstream, etc.
<ubottu> bug 1160177 in guake (Ubuntu) "guake starts with abnormal indentation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160177
<Laney> The packaging guide has this knowledge base idea but it's currently a bit lower level than that
<Laney> I'm sure some contributed articles would be well received
<rbasak> In that specific example I'm trying to take a technical friend who is affected through the steps - though nothing's on the bug yet.
<rbasak> I will work on it, but expect it to go pretty slowly. I hope to gain some experience in finding out how things work first. Maybe some blog posts first, see how they go down, and then suggest amendments to the official documentation (packaging guide, developer section on wiki or ubuntu.com, etc)
<rbasak> By "how things work" I mean how new developers take to my suggested different approach to documentation
<bdrung> rbasak: have you done any syncs from Debian yet?
<Laney> I think a high level "how do I do this thing I want to do?" section would be nice
 * Laney yields
<rbasak> I'm not sure I actually have. I'm aware of requestsync. I came close once, but then found a bug so managed to drop the entire delta and then had to introduce one again.
<rbasak> I think it's because of the nature of the packages I've worked on so far.
<rbasak> I've also read the requestsync manpage and realise it's a slightly different process if I have upload rights to the package in question.
<Laney> The appropriate tool then is 'syncpackage'
<rbasak> Looks like I'll need to use syncpackage
<bdrung> rbasak: when introducing a new delta, getting the change into Debian too is recommended. once the change is accepted in Debian (or tribbled through upstream), you can sync the package (with syncpackage as pointed out by Laney)
<bdrung> rbasak: do have you any plans for Debian beyond forwarding relevant patches?
<rbasak> I'd like to become a DD in the end. I've got a few new packages I'd like to get into Debian. I've got as far as getting a mentors.d.n account so far.
<bdrung> nice to hear.
<rbasak> Unfortunately that side of things is a spare time thing for me, so my progress is much slower than the Ubuntu side that I'm paid to work on full time. But I hope to get there.
<bdrung> i am confident that you will get there. :)
<rbasak> Thanks :)
<stgraber> #voters Laney bdrung barry tumbleweed stgraber
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney barry bdrung stgraber tumbleweed
<stgraber> we'll vote twice, first for MOTU then for server
<stgraber> #vote rbasak for MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: rbasak for MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<Daviey> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: rbasak for MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<stgraber> #vote rbasak for server packageset PPU
<meetingology> Please vote on: rbasak for server packageset PPU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: rbasak for server packageset PPU
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Daviey> \o/, congrats rbasak. Good effort.
<rbasak> \o/ thanks all, and for your time!
<Laney> well done!
<stgraber> added to both teams
<stgraber> #topic PPU membership proposal
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: PPU membership proposal
<stgraber> Current proposal is here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/dmb-ppu-membership-proposal
<Laney> if my two proposals accurately reflect the two options then I suggest we do a three way vote
<Laney> might need to use CIVS or something
<Laney> just choosing between them and NOTA
<tumbleweed> no objection
<Laney> is the first option right?
<stgraber> Laney: so can we achieve that with 3 votes, 1 for proposal-1, 1 for proposal-2 and 1 for NOTA? picking the option with the highest number of votes that's > 4?
<tumbleweed> Laney: there are missing details in option 1
<Laney> I think having it be desktop-core, core and flavours would be good enough and explainable without too much confusion
<tumbleweed> Laney: sure
<stgraber> let me grab the list I suggested last time
<barry> Laney: do you envision this list (of packages/sets to require membership) to change often?
<Laney> no, I was hoping for it to not change at all
<Laney> to be clear, that's not my favoured option
<stgraber> core, desktop-core, flavours, kernel, ubuntu-desktop (same status as flavour), ubuntu-server (same status as flavour) and xorg
<Laney> kernel and xorg are subsets of core, aren't they?
<Laney> hmm, no
<stgraber> there are some overlaps between them, but it's not a subset
<Laney> well, the packages therein that you care about
<barry> i just want to make sure that an application knows where to look and can find out exactly whether they'll need to apply for membership also
<Laney> yes
<stgraber> barry: yeah, I expect a fairly static list and for us to recheck when we get an application (pre-meeting)
<Laney> I don't think it's us we should be worrying about
<stgraber> so should we vote on those three (option-1, option-2 and NOTA)? I have to end the meeting in a minute.
<barry> Laney: right.  i guess we'll need a what-do-i-apply-for command ;)
<Laney> I think it's best if I set up a CIVS poll and add everyone as voters
<Laney> that should work
<barry> +1
<stgraber> ok, wfm
<Laney> action me, I'll do it today
<stgraber> #action Laney to setup a CIVS poll to choose between the two options (and NOTA) for PPU membership
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney to setup a CIVS poll to choose between the two options (and NOTA) for PPU membership
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: AOB
<Laney> ta
<stgraber> Next meeting chair will be ScottK (and Barry after that)
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  1 16:00:41 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-15.00.html
<barry> stgraber: thanks!
<stgraber> thanks everyone, hoping to get to the minutes sometime tomorrow (really too busy today)
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  1 16:31:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for precise-saucy for xen. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Thanks! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week, though I didn't really get to community last week
<jdstrand> sarnold, can you hold off on community duties this week?
<jdstrand> sarnold: feel free to respond to #ubuntu-hardened, but just not the current backlog. I'll get to it
<jdstrand> worked a lot on the SDK last week. Need to upload the latest patchset to saucy, upstream the patchset and file a few bugs with the SDK team and coordinate with them before I handoff to sbeattie
<jdstrand> I also need to coordinate with the team the work for this month
<jdstrand> (ie, send the email)
<jdstrand> I am working on lcms2 and openjdk-7 updates
<jdstrand> and am patch piloting this week
<sbeattie> jdstrand: did you upload the sdk patch set to the dbus-dev ppa?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: a variation of it. I need to upload there too. basically, I did several uploads-- the ppa got an early one, then saucy got the others. I have one more for both
<sbeattie> okay
<jdstrand> sbeattie: mdes laur is off today. you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor development again this week.
<sbeattie> I'm sweeping through my email after having been on holiday for two weeks
<sbeattie> I need to review what jdstrand did with the sdk patches and see what's next to work on there.
<sbeattie> I also need to look at and respond to the ipc email jjohansen sent to the apparmor list
 * jjohansen feels sorry for sbeattie
<sbeattie> That's all I can remember at the moment, I'm sure there's other things I need to do.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: tag.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I can tell you right off the most important thing this month is the click apparmor hook
<sbeattie> cool
<jdstrand> a demo will be help at the end of the month for the higher ups, so we kinda need that :)
<jdstrand> I imagine it will be quite straightforward
<jdstrand> s/help/held
<sbeattie> okay
<tyhicks> I'll be active in the AA IPC email thread to help drive the syntax discussions to completion
<tyhicks> I'm going to look into enabling ARM package building support in dbus-dev so that I can easily "measure unpatched and patched dbus performance on phablet image"
<tyhicks> (I need to follow up w/ jjohansen to check on the phablet kernel backport status first)
<jjohansen> tyhicks: new kernels are in all 4 images, and saucy
<tyhicks> I'll be ready to help out with any online accounts questions regarding libapparmor APIs
<tyhicks> thanks jjohansen
<tyhicks> and I'll be ready to pick up the content manager work once the cli-based content manager is ready
<tyhicks> also, the kernel merge window is now open, so I'll need to prepare a pull request and I have a couple other minor eCryptfs tasks to catch up on
<tyhicks> I think that's it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> so I have to finish up walking sarnold through the 2.8 release this week
<jjohansen> and I have a couple of kernel issues to hunt down that have surfaced in the maguro phablet kernel
<jjohansen> and then I'll doing apparmor dev
<jjohansen> oh and I suppose tormenting people with IPC syntax emails
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<sbeattie> jjohansen: now that I'm back, would it make more sense for me to walk sarnold through the release?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: so, it is just maguro, not the others?
<jjohansen> sbeattie: it might
<jdstrand> I think it would be great if sbeattie could help jjohansen in that way
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; jdstrand has suggested he'll take over some of the duties from his week, but since I've already done one of the ruby-openid-ish updates from ckuerste, it'd be easy for me to take at least that one and make sure it looks a lot like the previous one...
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yes they have only showed up in maguro. That doesn't mean they aren't in the others but ...
<jdstrand> but I'll leave it up to you guys
<jdstrand> jjohansen: that is interesting. quite a few people have mako and grouper fwiw
<jdstrand> anyhoo, hopefully it will be easy to track down
<sarnold> I also have some openssl packages with the site-wide compression disable patch in -proposed that I would like to distribute far and wide, and USN
<jdstrand> sarnold: feelf ree to take ruby-openid-ish
<jdstrand> sarnold: I just didn't want to stick you with the stuff I didn't do
<sarnold> the tracking bug had less traffic than I hoped, but it was one guy saying the updated openssl let him pass his PCI-DSS audit for postfix, so hooray :)
<sarnold> jdstrand: cool, thanks
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yeah its a bit of a pain, but I have reproduced with the x86 version of the 3.0 backport so its not a problem
<jjohansen> otherwise I would have been bugging you for a device
<sarnold> I also had a few ACKs on outstanding patches on the apparmor mail list that I wanted to check into trunk and perhaps nominate for 2.8 before a 2.8.2 release
<sbeattie> sarnold: note that cboltz merged one or two this morning.
<sarnold> and the AppArmor IPC mails will likely consume the rest of my week; bouncycastle testing is again a bottom-priority task
<sarnold> sbeattie: oh, cool :)
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson, your turn
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> so, last week was a fun week of updates (firefox, thunderbird and chromium)
<chrisccoulson> i'm currently looking at a crash in chromium, and there's going to be an update to fix a webapp-related issue as well
<sarnold> (thank you :)
<chrisccoulson> also, bug 1194841 (firefox), which i'll do another update for this week
<ubottu> bug 1194841 in firefox (Ubuntu Raring) "Firefox 22 uses stale manual proxy settings when configured to use system proxy settings, and system proxy settings are set to "None"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194841
<chrisccoulson> that one is pretty annoying, especially as it was known upstream, but their release team rejected including it for 22.0
<chrisccoulson> then after that, it's back on to oxide hacking again :)
<chrisccoulson> (there aren't any other planned updates this week)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: we should have that cross-team oxide meeting soon
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/srtp.html
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, i agree (sorry, just went to grab a glass of water)
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/latd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ldns.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rocksndiamonds.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kolabd.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  1 17:05:46 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-16.31.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-16.31.html
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
<Fionnghall> Who knows, ubuntu community alredy fix bug with ibus?
<Fionnghall> in v13.04 when you run gedit, you get message with error
<Fionnghall> How fix it?
<pleia2> Fionnghall: you want #ubuntu for support
<Fionnghall> Thx.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-02
 * stgraber waves
 * lool o/
 * barry yawns
 * rsalveti waves
<lool> fishing notes from last week
<lool> 15:33 < lool> so next week: ogra switching to flipped images, shaking bugs; xnox continuing work on android bits in archive with new cross toolchain; stgraber working on scripts to apply updates in recovery ROM; ondra to enable xz in our recovery ROMs; barry joining download service discussion; ondra + barry syncing on reboot interface
<ogra_> oh
<lool> ogra_: well, let's start with this then  :-)  how are we looking bugs-wise?
<lool> (for the flipped images)
<ogra_> yeah, i just noticed that i missed the notification for this meeting, thanks for the ping
<lool> I've read Chicken was confident we could switch early this week
<ogra_> we are just about to do it
<ogra_> last tests are running
<ogra_> bug wise we still have a few races more than unflipped but these will be sorted over time
<ogra_> booting is still pretty slow but we wont work on this until MIr and lightdm actually are in the boot
<ogra_> (else it is pointless)
<sergiusens> it just needs a push
<ogra_> and i think mako had some extra issues
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> manta
<rsalveti> the main race now is with maguro
<ogra_> all in all it ia good enough to switch imho
<lool> ogra_: Hmm I don't think we had xnox in the meeting last week; I guess the cross-compiler item was about building the android bits as a package; it's not heavily related to OS updates though, so maybe we can skip the update on in-archive android cross-toolchain (unless I'm missing a link to the OS update / image format stuff)
<rsalveti> yesterday's image got me a broken camera and broken media-player
<sergiusens> +1 on switching
<rsalveti> which also breaks input, when you try to open the media-player
<ogra_> lool, yeah, i guess we can
<rsalveti> but it's looking decent enough with the other devices
 * ogra_ doesnt have any issues on maguro here, weird
<lool> The sooner we can kill the non-flipped images...  :-)
<rsalveti> hopefully today :-)
<ogra_> yeah
<lool> Sounds like it would be less confusing to have one set of images and better to have everyone test the flipped ones at this point
<lool> perhaps with a "Known bugs" in the announcement
<ogra_> lool, all the code to support loop mounted setups is also in
<xnox> lool: well, our cross-toolchain doesn't build dynalically linked binaries that execute under android's linker. The added bonus of $ adb shell /system/bin/linker seg faulting adds additional complications in troubleshooting this.
<lool> xnox: eh
<ogra_> theoretically you should eb able to dump stgraber's images into the right place on disk and it would use them
<lool> ogra_: oh that's cool
<lool> are there devices where we're using these?
<xnox> lool: so still working on getting a working toolchain
<ogra_> not yet
<ogra_> switching to flipped was more in focus
<lool> ogra_: what's the interface to set these up?
<ogra_> but switching to loop should be a breeze now
<lool> xnox: ack
<stgraber> lool: my plan is to start publishing images to system-image later this week that'll use loop+read-only
<ogra_> lool, interface ?
<lool> ogra_: I mean, how do you set these up in the boot path?  also do we have a flag to generate corresponding images?
<ogra_> you just have to have them in place on disk ... the initrd will prefer them to normal flipped boot
<stgraber> though we discussed on a recent call that we shouldn't switch to that until we have click pages landed and working as otherwise everyone would just switch to developer mode which kind of defeats the purpose
<lool> ogra_: Ok, so there's a convention that one names filesystem images /data/userdata.img or something like that?
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> the initrd looks for the files in their respective locations and will boot them if they are there
<lool> stgraber: Hmm I see the argument but I'm not sure it's great delaying testing on such core functionality; perhaps we should have a mean to have a manual chroot in userdata or something?
<stgraber> lool: it looks for /data/system.img if it finds it, it switches to read-only+loop mode, if it doesn't and /data/ubuntu exists it boots in normal flipped if it doesn't it prints a message and panics (there's a comment in the code saying that this is where the repartitioned-read-only code should go)
<lool> ogra_: is there a wiki page capturing this perhaps?
<ogra_> lool, that would only be a one liner :)
<stgraber> lool: well, people will be able to test it soon (once I get that stuff on system-image.u.c), it just won't be the default
<lool> maybe this could be added to the porting guide
<ogra_> put a combined ubuntu+android rootfs image into /data/system.img
<ogra_> lool, we dont even support flipped with ports yet
<ogra_> so no
<ogra_> not before we have that :)
<lool> "flipped with ports"?
 * ogra_ thinks stgraber should blog about it or write a mail to the ML
<lool> android bits built as a package?
<sergiusens> I need to move the boot/ramdisk stuff to the android build
<ogra_> but it shouldnt be in the porting guide yet
<lool> yeah a blog post would go a long way to capture this in a way we can refer to
<lool> or email to $ML really
<ogra_> lool, ports still build unflipped images atm
<stgraber> ogra_: I'll blog about that whole thing once I can get the upgrader to work (hopefully this week)
<lool> ogra_: oh ok
<ogra_> we havent integrated the generic ubuntu initrd in their builds yet
<lool> ogra_: sorry was confused with ports.u.c for a couple of minutes
<ogra_> heh
<lool> stgraber: great, thanks
<lool> stgraber: next in the list from last week were scripts to apply updates in the recovery ROM
<lool> stgraber: with new tar.xz support and gpg support in the recovery ROM
<lool> (No ondra around?)
<stgraber> ondra isn't around but he sent his status update to you and I by e-mail
<sergiusens> lool: I have a patch from ondra but did not apply it
<lool> oh indeed, odd that I just got it
<stgraber> we got our first working recovery image yesterday evening (3am London time)
<sergiusens> I was weary to apply it since it has a binary blob for tar
<stgraber> so I haven't had time to work on an upgrade script using that yet (just started my day here)
<sergiusens> and we are making way to remove blobs, adding one didn't seem right
<lool> sergiusens: is that the one with gpg?
<stgraber> sergiusens: hmm, we should only be adding a single blob for gpg (until ondra figures out how to build it without the NDK)
<ogra_> sergiusens, i think we agreed in this meeting to do it as a temp. solution
<sergiusens> lool: hmmm, no, one for tar with xz support
<ogra_> though i dont get why busybox tar isnt ok to use
<sergiusens> ogra_: stgraber I might be wrong though and it might be gpg
<lool> sergiusens: I completely agree that we should go towards less blobs; is there something reasonnably easy that can be done to include tar + xz + gpg support from source in our images?
<stgraber> tar and xz from busybox are fine, we shouldn't be adding those
<ogra_> yeah, gpg has to be binary atm
<sergiusens> ogra_: are you ok with me applying that?
<lool> BTW, Ondra's status email mentions: 1/ recovery change to look for ubuntu_command file and execute updater script: done  2/ gpg static build as part of the Android image build: done
<ogra_> sergiusens, as long as we remove it again :)
<ogra_> sergiusens, which was the initial plan ...
<sergiusens> ok, must of missed it... I'll apply it right after this meeting
<ogra_> ondra is aware that it cant stay that way
<sergiusens> but someone would need to track it's removal
<lool> I'm going to make a really really native hypothesis, I hope I don't get mocked for this one: is there a reason we can't copy our eglibc + tar + gz + gpg into the recovery rom initrd?
<lool> like, that would be too big?
<rsalveti> probably
<ogra_> it would surely grow it a lot
<ogra_> but recovery is usually quite big
<ogra_> (compared to boot for example)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: sorry, which patches?
<lool> do we have an idea of budget for recovery ROM size (across devices)?
<ogra_> rsalveti, binary gpg blob
<rsalveti> got it
 * ogra_ only knows that 8M is a typical boot size 
<lool> cause I'm not sure adding static binaries is that much worse than adding glibc + tar
<ogra_> usually safe to assume as lowes size
<rsalveti> do we have support for gpg in busybox?
<stgraber> lool: 10MB total is what we discussed in the recovery partition last week, the kernel takes almost 5MB
<lool> (or really glibc + gpg instead of just static gpg)
<stgraber> rsalveti: no, gpg has to be a separate binary
<ogra_> rsalveti, no, thus the blob
<rsalveti> someone get an action to check the size of a static gpg then (with glibc)
<rsalveti> hard to say without numbers
<lool> well, with compression I guess
<lool> yeah
<lool> I'm all for trying to fit it in an initrd
<stgraber> rsalveti: the GPG ondra worked on is built against the NDK so it's likely smaller than a static build against glibc
<sergiusens> rsalveti: fyi, this is the patch https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~okubik/phablet-bootable-recovery-gpg.patch
<rsalveti> stgraber: right
<stgraber> IIRC it's around 5MB (uncompressed) here, just checking now
<ogra_> lool, wrie an ubuntu initrd hook, build a new initrd with -v
<stgraber> ah no, 2.7MB but that's not the final version, the latest one may be a bit bigger (ondra said he had to static link more stuff in)
<ogra_> *write
<ogra_> and then count the sizes
<rsalveti> sergiusens: but why is this a binary instead of a source based project that gets built for recovery?
<lool> well, maybe we ought to defer this on #ubuntu-phone
 * ogra_ guesses we need ondra to answer these questions
<rsalveti> right, indeed, we can check this offline
<lool> maybe we can dive into building gpg from source as part of the recovery build, or try including shared or static gpg in recovery and see how much bigger it becomes
<stgraber> anyway, we clearly intend on having it built from source, the result will likely be static anyway as recovery doesn't contain much libs at all
<rsalveti> yeah
<stgraber> the current plan is to get the binary in ASAP so that my work isn't blocked on this
<sergiusens> rsalveti: because it was easier to use the ndk I think
<rsalveti> we can build it as part of recovery, from the android sources side atm, until we move to something else (for recovery)
<stgraber> then ondra will spend the time to move from building using NDK+patched-makefiles to building cleanly for recovery
<rsalveti> right, sounds fine
<lool> right; ondra mentioned as TODO: 1/ polish recovery change so it shows animation during update process, at the moment it shows black screen  2/ get gpg branch to state it can be push to git and added to phablet repository, just cleaning process so it can be pushed.
<stgraber> rsalveti: we currently use Android's recovery code and have no plan to ditch it (as we need it for roll-back), our change to the code just makes it call our upgrader if it spots and Ubuntu update in /cache
<lool> so that sounds like his 2/, albeit a bit more clearly specified
<lool> we can keep discussing this after this meeting
<ogra_> rsalveti, if we want to support android rollback, we cant move to somethign else
<ogra_> bah, stgraber was faster
<ogra_> :P
<lool> stgraber: outside of the binaries not currently in the recovery rom, were you able to develop the unpacking scripts with ondra?
<rsalveti> right, that's fine, just saying that we could later on have our own, built separately and such, which could still be compatible
<ogra_> yeah
<rsalveti> ogra_: do you know if grouper supports neon?
<ogra_> tegra3 should
<lool> it should, it's tegra3
<rsalveti> don't remember which device we had issues with the updater-binary in the past
<ogra_> 2 definitely doesnt ...
<lool> tegra2 was one of the rare armv7 which didn't, but they realized the mistake with tegra3
<rsalveti> but anyway, we need to make sure this gpg binary is not built with neon by default
<lool> rsalveti: good point
<lool> well, it ought to autodetect neon at runtime really
<ogra_> (teh ac100 community is just freaking out about the last chromium SRU that blindly enabled NEON in raring
<stgraber> lool: I ran a test script yesterday on my N4 to check that the interface works and it did. I now need to make a fully working version of that though but I have higher priority items on my list (get working images published, fix a couple of issues with loop-mount, publish scripts for LXC testing, ...)
<stgraber> lool: I've spent most of yesterday fixing LXC/mount related issues for ogra_ and then fixing an upstart bug that's currently affecting ofono on Touch, so didn't have much time for my stuff :)
<lool> yeah, seen the upload, damn ogra!  ;-)
<ogra_> lool, wasnt me ... blame chad !
<ogra_> i just get all the heat from the users :P
<lool> stgraber: Ok; I was hoping we'd have images for testing this week, does that sound feasible?
<lool> barry: Looking at remaining things from last week (sorry, we're overrunning): did you discuss reboot interface with ondra?
<stgraber> lool: not giving up hope ;) though tomorrow is packed with meetings, so I'll see how much of the work I can do today and Thursday/Friday
<lool> stgraber: Ok; cool
<ogra_> at least you can test the local setup by putting the img manually in place
<lool> I'm away next week, would someone like to run this meeting next week, or I could ask slangasek but it's earlyish for him
<barry> lool: mostly discussed w/stgraber.  we spec'd it out and the upgrader should be compliant now.  the last little bit is plumbing through the reboot command (the reboot framework is there, but the actual reboot command is waiting for the lxc container test environment - it's probably a 2 line change).
<stgraber> lool: I can do that
<lool> barry: also, would you like to share latest updates on download service?  ISTR you wanted minor tweaks to the download service to set UA
<lool> stgraber: cool, thanks
<lool> barry: Hmm that sounds like it should work with flipped images though
<lool> Unless I'm missing something
<lool> barry: (I mean reboot should work in flipped images)
<barry> lool: correct.  we've had some good discussions with mandel and others about the download service.  he's moved the code to our project, and he was going to extract those bits from the google doc to our wiki.  i have to ping him about that part.  anyway, we needed a few changes to the dbus api to support what we need, but it all seemed doable.  haven't looked at mandel's code yet.
<barry> lool: it should.  i could probably just mock it out (obviously don't want the test suite to try to reboot :)
<lool> barry: Ok; would be good to check the plan for landing this in the images with him too, and we also need to land your code in the images
<lool> barry: did the design discussion settle on UI from settings app or standalone?
<barry> lool: right.  client code is now packaged and uploaded.  i think stgraber was working on getting that into the images (if it's not already there)
<stgraber> lool: he means the CI LXC test environment so he can test the reboot call without rebooting his laptop :)
<stgraber> barry: yeah, I still need to seed/add it to the meta package
<barry> lool: i haven't heard anything about ui
<lool> barry: Hmm would you want to ping the thread?  it's from 10 days ago or so at least
<barry> lool: yep, will do
<lool> stgraber: ahh  :-)
<lool> alright, I think we covered all things from last week
<lool> anything else?
<lool> if not I'll try to sum up ongoing work for this week
<lool> ok, what I have is: stgraber trying to get image update code completed this week; ogra/sergiusens/rsalveti flipping images today; ondra/rsalveti/sergiusens/stgraber looking at including static gpg build w/o NEON in the recovery initrd; barry pinging design team on update UI; barry wrapping up download service API with mandel
<lool> I hope this didn't get cut
<lool> Did I miss anything?
<rsalveti> sounds fine
<rsalveti> and you getting some vacation
<rsalveti> ;-)
<ogra_> :)
<barry> lool: it's a short week here in the usa, but i am also working on the dbus api for the client
<lool> he yeah, and stgraber running the meeting  ;-)
<lool> alright, you guys rock!  let's close this meeting and keep chatting about gpg builds on #ubuntu-phone
<lool> thanks all!
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks
<rsalveti> thanks!
<kokoye2007> hello Sarvatt
<kokoye2007> sorry
<yeminn> just testing
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> doh, i'm too keen.
<jamespage> o/
<smb> o/ (this time)
<Daviey> o/
<matsubara> o/
<Daviey> rbasak: I believe you to be the chair today?
<rbasak> I am?
<arosales> rbasak, yes sorry for the late notify
<arosales> rbasak, are you ok with chairing today?
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  2 16:03:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> Daviey set priority on s-cycle BPs
<arosales> Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
<rbasak> I don't see last week's meeting logs
<arosales> rbasak, I just updated the wiki page with those two actions
<rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20130625 doesn't exist.
<Daviey> arosales: Broadsided me :-)
<rbasak> I'll look at the IRC logs.
<Daviey> I believe the priorities are all good NOW.. I need to double check they are all on the status tracker.
<arosales> rbasak, yes sorry I didn't add that there
<Daviey> Mark it done, will double check following this.
<arosales> the moin logs are at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-16.00.moin.txt
<arosales> rbasak, I'll get those added to the wiki
<rbasak> Thanks
<rbasak> #action arosales to carry out post-meeting procedure (minutes, etc) documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase for meeting of 25 June
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to carry out post-meeting procedure (minutes, etc) documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase for meeting of 25 June
<rbasak> Sorry I'm just catching up.
<arosales> rbasak, thank you
<rbasak> Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
<rbasak> Did you just cover that?
<Daviey> Yes
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Tracking Bug Tasks
<rbasak> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<rbasak> Shall I go through these?
<Daviey> rbasak: Please do
<rbasak> Would it be an idea to make sure someone is assigned to each of them?
<rbasak> bug 1124384
<ubottu> bug 1124384 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Saucy) "Configuration reload clears event that others jobs may be waiting on" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124384
<rbasak> utlemming: any comment? Do you want to follow that through?
<rbasak> bug 1196921
<ubottu> bug 1196921 in vim (Ubuntu Saucy) "updating packages to lua5.2 in main" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196921
<rbasak> Nobody is assigned at the moment. Any volunteers?
<Daviey> Looks like 1124384 has become a hard problem, but smoser and utlemming are tracking it.  Not worried it will be resolved
<Daviey> 1196921 looks like a transition that could be painful.. As it's not a blocking package, i think we can leave it for this week
<rbasak> bug 1183634
<ubottu> bug 1183634 in cheetah (Ubuntu Saucy) "cheetah pkg does not depend on markdown, but egg requires.txt does" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1183634
<rbasak> Looks like it's waiting on the MIR team.
<Daviey> adam_g is tracking that
<rbasak> bug 1170393
<ubottu> bug 1170393 in quantum (Ubuntu Saucy) "Quantum services should be respawned by upstart if necessary" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170393
<Daviey> I think 1183634 needs an upload to make it show on c-m list
<Daviey> jamespage: what am i looking at on that bug?  Shows Won't Fix?
<jamespage> I'll take that quantum one
<rbasak> May I assign it, so that we remember for next week?
<Daviey> jamespage: Why does the recent change show Won't Fix?
<jamespage> not a clue - rbasak - I've already done that
 * jamespage shrugs
<rbasak> Thanks!
<Daviey> Ah, i see.. the development series was thrown away, with a dedicated saucy task
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/1188069 is security and the security team are tracking it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1188069 in apache2 (Ubuntu Saucy) "apache2 mod_rewrite CVE 2013-1862" [Low,Confirmed]
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libasm4-java/+bug/1196979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196979 in ow-util-ant-tasks (Ubuntu Saucy) "[MIR] libasm4-java (b-d of jarjar)" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> anyone want to help with something java-ish
<jamespage> ?
<jamespage> ^^
<jamespage> two packages to transition to asm4 in main
<jamespage> so we can get rid of asm3
<Daviey> jamespage: Happen to know why jarjar is in main?
<jamespage> cglib
<jamespage> which is one of the things that needs to be transitioned
<jamespage> I suspect its actually broken right now
<jamespage> as asm upstream don't version their package namespaces and they are not backwards compat
<Daviey> ugh!
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagios-plugins/+bug/1031680
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged]
<Daviey> jamespage: Do you have capacity to triage that?
<jamespage> nagios or asm4?
<Daviey> (java one)
<jamespage> yeah - sure
<Daviey> ta
<jamespage> (I discussed with doko earlier in -devel anyways)
<rbasak> I've been looking at this one. It's a complex issue and there's a workaround (use a different, much simpler plugin). I'm not sure it can be fixed in _this package_ for Saucy without introducing a horrible delta.
<Daviey> rsome good triage there
<rbasak> xnox: any comment on that? You targetted it for Saucy.
<Daviey> rbasak: seems xnox raised it with upstream?
<rbasak> I raised it.
<Daviey> Oh sorry.
<rbasak> The only comment is that we need to provide input since upstream need help. But the only sane way of fixing it is to ditch the plugin and use update-notifier directly, for Ubuntu.
<Daviey> rbasak: lets wait to see if upstream respond?
<rbasak> They sort of have.
<xnox> rbasak: looking... trying to remember.
<rbasak> " I'm less keen on having
<rbasak> the behaviour depend on whether or not some tool is available, though; as
<rbasak> that's problematic with respect to maintenance and support. And I guess
<rbasak> update-notifier is a bit too Ubuntu-ish to add a hard dependency on
<rbasak> apt-check ...
<rbasak> Sorry I thought that'd paste on one line.
<Daviey> So do we simply recommend using the other tool?
<rbasak> IMHO, yes.
<Daviey> WFM
<rbasak> The alternative isn't packaged, though.
<Daviey> if it's a drop in feature compatible
<rbasak> It's not.
<Daviey> Pah
<rbasak> But it'll do for 99% of use cases IMHO.
<rbasak> The existing plugin's interface is very much based on the way it works. It's not really a clean interface.
<rbasak> How about I take this to the ML?
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtinst/+bug/1192290
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192290 in virtinst (Ubuntu Saucy) "virt-install cannot install Raring" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Daviey> mdeslaur seems to be working on it
<rbasak> OK that's all the bugs on that report for us.
<Daviey> \o/
<rbasak> #subtopic Blueprints
<rbasak> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-saucy/group/topic-saucy-servercloud-overview.html
<rbasak> That link appears to be broken.
<jamespage> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<rbasak> I'll amend the agenda for next time.
<Daviey> Ta
<xnox> rbasak: yeah, i only mangled bug statuses to have this bug bubble up for saucy cycle. Ideally it should be resolved one way or the other, but could be regretfully postponed.
<Daviey> arosales: Are you able to adjust the trend line?
<arosales> Daviey, unfortunately no
<arosales> Daviey, a bug report should get the right folks looking at it though
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-work-items-tracker/+filebug
<rbasak> xnox: OK, thanks. I'll email the ML with what I think we should do and copy you in.
<Daviey> utlemming / ivoks: What is servercloud-s-webscale MIR's blocked on?
<jamespage> that topic is stilling missing bp's btw
<xnox> rbasak: cool =) back in the day I used to do a lot of nagios/check_mk large scale monitoring.... =)
<jamespage> Daviey, the MIR's are dependent on the other work items happening first
<Daviey> jamespage: Will sweep up after this, but we  have enough to track development of what is there for now
<arosales> jamespage, I think Daviey has an action out to follow up on missing BPs
<Daviey> jamespage: OIC
<utlemming> Daviey: er, I am not sure...I'll look into that today. I've been out on vacation
<Daviey> jamespage: Would you be able to work with zul to help with the direction of servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor ?
<jamespage> Daviey, can do
<Daviey> jamespage: I suspect you are well placed to have some good guidance, based on last Friday
<jamespage> ack
<rbasak> Any more on Blueprints?
<Daviey> roaksoax: What is our zeromq story right now?
<Daviey> (servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2)
<roaksoax> Daviey: have not look at it yet (been busy with charms mainly)
<Daviey> ok
<Daviey> Any more news on MariaDB/Percona ?
<roaksoax> i'll have more information next week
<zul> Daviey:  they have gone silent
<Daviey> I saw the ITP in Debian for xtrabackup
<roaksoax> zul: didn't jcastro mentioned they were going to provide their own charm too?
<Daviey> Okay, i'll reach out to them this week.
<zul> roaksoax:  they did but i havent heard anything else
<Daviey> ACTION: Daviey to speak to Percona about Saucy inclusion
<Daviey> #ACTION Daviey to speak to Percona about Saucy inclusion
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey to speak to Percona about Saucy inclusion
<rbasak> I'd really like to see the alternatives in this cycle. Otherwise we'll end up not even being able to consider doing anything but supporting mysql for another LTS cycle.
<Daviey> jamespage: Any news on juju-core snapshot in saucy ?
<Daviey> rbasak: right
<jamespage> Daviey, the juju-core team hit some issues end of last week
<jamespage> should be resolved ~2 days ish
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> The rest looks ok, thanks.
<rbasak> Thanks Daviey!
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Linaro Connect is in Dublin next week.
<rbasak> (I'll be there)
<rbasak> Any other upcoming events?
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> 19th London, Openstack Meetup
<Daviey> Openstack's 3rd birthday event
<Daviey> EOF
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<rbasak> plars: hello!
<plars> Hi
<zul> it seems i am in the wrong part of the world for events
<plars> Not much to report, except that the server images had some problems today
<plars> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1196981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196981 in Ubuntu CD Images "Saucy server installations fail due to dependancy issues on python-newt " [Undecided,Fix released]
<plars> I believe the release team is looking into it
<rbasak> Thanks plars! Does anyone have any questions for plars?
<rbasak> OK.
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi
<smb> Not much to report. Currently working on a pre-release-pre-debian version of xen 4.3 to have the pieces together when the release happens. Any issues from server after kernel v3.10 hit the block?
<rbasak> I still appear to be using a 3.9 based cloud image as of today.
<rbasak> Any questions for smb?
<Daviey> jamespage fixed openvswitch, iscisitarget is still broke
<jamespage> next on my list
<Daviey> jamespage: is there a bug for iscsi-target?
<jamespage> yes
<rbasak> Should we target that for Saucy?
<jamespage> bug 1195607
<ubottu> bug 1195607 in iscsitarget (Ubuntu Saucy) "iscsitarget-dkms broken since kernel 3.10.0" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195607
<jamespage> it already is
<Daviey> Thanks
 * jamespage wonders about the release bugs list again
<rbasak> It didn't come up on the tracking page though?
<Daviey> it's not tagged
<Daviey> Tags are useless. :-)
<jamespage> it should not need to be tagged
<jamespage> it has a release task and its subbed by ubuntu-server
<rbasak> Other bugs in the report are not tagged.
<jamespage> that should be sufficient IMHO
<rbasak> It dosen't look like it's subbed by ubuntu-server to me.
<rbasak> It doesn't appear in the "May be notified" list
<rbasak> Can an ~ubuntu-server admin fix that please?
<rbasak> Daviey? jamespage?
<jamespage> ack
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> (and to smb!)
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<Daviey> rbasak: Any news on mongo?
<rbasak> I've not looked at it, sorry.
<Daviey> no problem
<Daviey> EOF
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> Is there anything anybody wants to bring up?
<rbasak> I do, actually, related to the next item.
<jamespage> rbasak, congrats btw
<rbasak> I have a proposal that I hope is constructive. Instead of rotating the chair weekly, how about we rotate the chair once the chair completes the post-meeting procedure?
<rbasak> Thanks jamespage!
<jamespage> for those that don't know rbasak is now a MOTU and member of ubuntu-server-dev
<yolanda> congrats
<Daviey> +1!
<rbasak> Thanks :)
<rbasak> If we do that, then the previous chair will have his notes, and there won't be a delay at the start with confusion over who's chairing. And it's an incentive to get it done :)
<rbasak> I propose it starts with me, so I might as well volunteer to chair next week unless I get it done.
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> The next meeting will be on 9 July at 1600 UTC as usual. I may be absent as I'll be at Linaro Connect. So I hope I'll get it done and yolanda will chair :)
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  2 16:47:50 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-02-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-02-16.03.html
<yolanda> ok
<arosales> rbasak, thanks for chairing
<rbasak> No problem
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  2 17:00:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> \o
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || foundations-1305-kernel        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || mobile-power-management        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || pm-system-policy               || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've recently rebased our Saucy kernel to v3.10 final and uploaded.
<ogasawara> We'll continue to track the latest v3.10.x upstream stable while we
<ogasawara> evaluate moving to a v3.11 based kernel for Saucy.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> Thurs July 25 - Alpha 2 (opt in)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 22 - 12.04.3
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (July 2):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Regression testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Regression testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Regression testing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Regression testing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>   * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  2 17:04:58 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-02-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-02-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-03
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul  3 15:02:41 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> jodh slangasek doko barry bdmurray cjwatson stgraber stokachu ev xnox
<xnox> win!
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - 1.9 release.
<jodh>   - Cookbook update.
<jodh>   - Ubuntu merge.
<jodh>   - Working on lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/fix-libupstart which seems to
<jodh>     have exposed a gettext bug (worked around with fix from cjwatson).
<jodh>   - libupstart packaging preparation (ongoing).
<jodh>   - Currently working on a testing Ubuntu libupstart packaging before
<jodh>     putting out a 1.9.1 release (of lp:upstart tip).
<jodh>   - Fixed bug 1197225.
<ubottu> bug 1197225 in upstart "upstart-file-bridge assert failure: string.c:396: Assertion failed in nih_str_split: str != NULL" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197225
<jodh>   - Merged lp:~ted/upstart/starting-reversal.
<doko> hi
<jodh>   - Raised startpar-bridge bug 1197426.
<ubottu> bug 1197426 in sysvinit (Ubuntu) "starpar-upstart-inject causes upstart to consume a lot of cpu" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197426
<jodh> â
<jodh> ... and ignore bug 1197426! :)
<slangasek> :)
 * jodh whispers 'user error'
<slangasek>  * helping with the odd merge review on upstart
<slangasek>  * mountall update for bug #1192514
<slangasek>  * updated gnu-efi, shim for SecureBoot support; may take care of some outstanding bugs we have booting on some hardware
<ubottu> bug 1192514 in mountall (Ubuntu) "Invalid locale in /etc/default/locales halts boot" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192514
<slangasek>  * discussed with the kernel team about UEFI anti-bricking kernel backports
<slangasek>  * talking about Mir on the Youse Tubes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h00xJwMi-eY
<slangasek>  * todo:
<slangasek>   * public holiday tomorrow, and off on Friday
<slangasek>   * look at getting plymouth working on top of Mir
<slangasek>   * get parted cross-building using the android toolchain cross-builder
<slangasek>   * implement repartitioning of disks on Ubuntu Touch install
<slangasek>   * decide on MokManager packaging in shim, submit new binaries to Microsoft for signing
<slangasek>   * reviewing new centrifydc package for partner
<slangasek> (done)
<ogra_> yay, plymouth !
<doko> - test proposed fixes for current linaro gcc-4.8 regressions
<doko> - openjdk-7 update
<doko> - cross compiler updates
<doko> - some kind of +1 maintenance, chasing down dep waits and build failures in -proposed
<doko> - aarch64 bringup (fix some config.* files)
<doko> - prepare for connect
<doko> (done)
<barry> image based updates: plumb out reboot sequence, writing command file, moving files into place; LP: #1192574; LP: #1193142 (yay! uploaded); had a meeting on the dbus api and began working on LP: #1192585; had some emails/meetings/discussions on the new dbus download service which is being written by mandel.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192574 in Ubuntu system image "Issue reboots" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192574
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1193142 in Ubuntu system image "Create Debian packaging for client" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193142
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192585 in Ubuntu system image "Add a dbus API" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192585
<barry> other: py.test rebuild to fix FTBFS; debian bug 712881 (uploaded new enum34 to debian); working on tox 1.5 in debian (but waiting for debian bug 714412 to clear NEW); python-configglue 1.1.0-0ubuntu1 (with py3 support); LP: #1196983; filed debian bug 714757; dmb meeting; gsoc mentors meeting.
<ubottu> Debian bug 712881 in wnpp "ITP: python-enum34 -- support for enums (backport of Python 3.4's enum package)" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/712881
<ubottu> Debian bug 714412 in wnpp "ITP: python-pytest-instafail -- py.test plugin to show failures instantly" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/714412
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196983 in configparser (Ubuntu) "[MIR] configparser" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196983
<ubottu> Debian bug 714757 in configparser "configparser: Unnecessary Build-Depends on python-support" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/714757
<barry> usa holiday tomorrow and off on friday.
<barry> â¢
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater (and updated MP) to directly call changeOverride (LP API)
<bdmurray> research into software-center not creating package install failure reports
<bdmurray> reported bug 1196740 regarding software-center
<ubottu> bug 1196740 in software-center (Ubuntu) "not all package install failures generate a crash report" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196740
<bdmurray> testing of .crash file detection by upstart
<bdmurray> generated new oauth token and secret for whoopsie-daisy-lp-bridge
<bdmurray> submitted and tested result of RT regarding deployment of new oauth token and secret (fixes LP: #1053395)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053395 in Errors "Bugs reported from "Create" have "Evan Dandrea" as reporter" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053395
<bdmurray> reported errors bug 1197186
<ubottu> bug 1197186 in Errors "Create link oopses for some bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197186
<slangasek> sigh, more unity package changes preventing update-manager from being able to DTRT
<bdmurray> modification to errors / daisy to create more detailed bugs in launchpad
<bdmurray> modified bugbot to subscribe me to regression srus
<bdmurray> set expiration date for bug control members w/o one
<bdmurray> â done
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package: Renamed click-package to click, by request of Mark.  Thinking about D-Bus interface.  Responded to Sebastian Heinlein's questions on the list; he's offered to help with implementation, which is great.
<cjwatson> community-s-autopkgtesting: Discussion with Jean-Baptiste on various problems with the autopkgtest workflow.  Prepared announcement to explain to developers what's going on; just waiting for a couple more fixes to land first.
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-arm64-bringup: Started up auto-cross-builder on saucy/armhf.  Thanks to Evan for Canonistack help.
<cjwatson> Visited London to generate keys for image-based-upgrades.
<bdmurray> oh, I'm out Thursday and Friday too
<cjwatson> Fixed up some Python 3 compatibility in lsb (bug 1035136).
<ubottu> bug 1035136 in lsb (Ubuntu Raring) "[SRU] Fix lsb-core for 12.10 and 13.04" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035136
<cjwatson> Prompted discussion on making the publisher try to run more frequently; implemented as of this morning.
<cjwatson> Fixed crazy fakechroot/chfn/PAM/audit interaction in ubuntu-touch-generic-initrd build.
<cjwatson> Merges/syncs: debhelper, jifty, graphviz, tcl8.4, bogl, python-anyjson, qt-assistant-compat, libcommons-compress-java, efax-gtk, patch, wireless-regdb, gluegen2, libtool
<cjwatson> .
 * barry is eager to hear about autopkgtest
<xnox> cjwatson: how often does the publisher try to run now?
<cjwatson> I can't really announce it properly until it stops losing failed statuses ;-)
<cjwatson> xnox: I'm leaving infinity to take the glory on that since he did most of the legwork
<barry> ;)
<xnox> cjwatson: ok.
<cjwatson> But anyone who complains about slowness now is clinically impatient ;-)
<xnox> and he is not here to get the ping.....
<cjwatson> He knows :)
<slangasek> stgraber: you're up
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>   - system-image.u.c is now running with the production GPG keys!
<stgraber>   - Worked on an initial plan for our DBus API with barry
<stgraber>   - Wrote a new pack-system tool to generate the hardware-dependent tarballs
<stgraber>   - Updated repack-rootfs to create the missing directories and symlinks to make a loop-mounted image work
<stgraber>   - Implemented a basic upgrader script and ran the first image update on my N4: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5838899/
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Ubuntu touch
<stgraber>   - Cherry-picked pidns+mntns support to mako and manta, available at github.com/stgraber/linux (maguro and grouper will be much harder as they're on an older kernel)
<stgraber>   - Merged a bunch of changes to lxc-android-config and the initrd to support loop-mounted flipped images
<stgraber>   - Cleaned up a bunch of scripts to stop using /proc/<pid>/root as a way to access the container, instead doing clean bind-mounts from the host to the container
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>   - Usual code reviews
<stgraber>  - Release
<ogra_> cjwatson, well, with moving to apt-less images the turnaround time gets more critical since we need an image build too to get the fix to the users
<stgraber>   - Alpha-1 release engineering work
<stgraber>   - Did a bunch of tests on self-service rebuilds and added to cron, appears to work reliably
<stgraber>  - Upstart
<stgraber>   - Fixed respawn when the exec line contains shell characters (affecting ofono on Touch)
<stgraber>   - Code review
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>   - Objectives
<stgraber>   - Quite a bunch of meetings (DMB, weekly release meeting, upgrader DBus API, weekly upgrader meeting, OEM customization)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Integrate the system-image module with cdimage to publish updates to the daily channel as they appear
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Add gpg support to the upgrader script
<stgraber>  - Write some tools for manual actions on system-image (manage channels, manage keyrings, manually publish updates, ...)
<stgraber>  - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> (DONE)
<cjwatson> ogra_: sure
<ogra_> (so count me in on that impatient crowd :P )
<slangasek> ogra_: but a) publisher should no longer be a source of unreasonable delays, b) the users you're trying to get fixes to quickly are all developers, who are going to want to opt out of image-based updates anyway except for dogfooding purposes...
<slangasek> stokachu: around this week?
<ogra_> slangasek, dont make stgraber unhappy :)
<ogra_> i guess we actually want *some* users that use it readonly
<ogra_> :)
<slangasek> ogra_: we've already discussed this, and agreed not to flip the switch until we have the opt-out mechanism available :)
<xnox> * Upstart:
<xnox>   - fixup upstart SRU
<xnox>   - upload 1.9 into saucy, and fix that one up
<xnox> * Uploaded shadow with user name space support into saucy
<xnox> * Did objectives.
<xnox> * Ongoing trying to build a working android cross toolchain, with
<xnox>   help/suggestions from doko. This time around using 4.7.5 linaro
<xnox>   release.
<xnox> ..
<slangasek> ah, does that mean I should downgrade my android cross-toolchain packages?
<doko> 4.7.5?
<slangasek> doko: and can xnox have access to upload to some appropriate common ppa for his cross-toolchain work?
<xnox> doko: that's linaro's 13.06 gcc-4.7 release labeled as.
<doko> slangasek, he does
<slangasek> oh, ok
<xnox> slangasek: i do now. No need to upgrade anything, packages are datestamp versioned.
<slangasek> got it
<slangasek> which ppa should I be pulling from, then?
<xnox> slangasek: not uploaded yet, still  building it
<stgraber> slangasek: we have the opt-out "touch /data/.developer_mode", then reboot and / will be read-write :)
<slangasek> yes, but which ppa :)
<xnox> slangasek: the current toolchain you have, should be ok to build a statically linked parted that will work in recovery.
<slangasek> stgraber: ok :)
<xnox> slangasek: will be in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain/+archive/android , last one is still in https://launchpad.net/~xnox/+archive/scratch. Let me copy it across.
<slangasek> xnox: I already have the last one - don't worry about copying, I just want to get the new one once it's available
<slangasek> any other questions over statuses?
<xnox> slangasek: will ping, once available.
<slangasek> xnox: ok, thanks :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> let's do this the right way 'round this time - anybody have anything else they want to cover before we go into our discussion topic?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] click packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: click packages
<slangasek> seeing no response, I'll turn the mic over to Colin :)
<cjwatson> Heh, OK, thanks :)
<cjwatson> As last week, this isn't meant to be a lecture, but I prepared a few notes for those who're unfamiliar, or who aren't up to speed with what's currently happening
<cjwatson> "Click packages" (the name predates me, so don't blame me :-) ) are the app packaging framework for the phone, and designed with an eye to later convergence onto the desktop.
<cjwatson> They're a lightweight system designed to be fast and robust while also reusing a reasonable amount of code from elsewhere, since we have pretty tight delivery targets.
<cjwatson> They're explicitly *not* designed to replace dpkg and apt; in particular they deliberately have much simpler dependency arrangements.  But they should work for the sort of third-party apps that just use facilities of the stock GUI framework.
<cjwatson> This is a cross-team effort.  For example, Foundations is supplying the low-level packaging tools, up to the D-Bus interface; Security is handling confinement; the SDK team is handling QtCreator integration; and various Online Services teams are handling the server side and the Dash integration.
<cjwatson> Some orientation links:
<cjwatson>   https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-click-package
<cjwatson>   https://launchpad.net/click
<cjwatson> Right now a preliminary version of click is in saucy.
<cjwatson>   https://click-package.readthedocs.org/
<cjwatson> The most important things coming up in July involving Foundations are:
<cjwatson>  * per-user package installation
<cjwatson>  * D-Bus API (will probably be based on PackageKit, possibly with assistance from aptdaemon)
<cjwatson>  * app confinement
<cjwatson>  * desktop file hook so that you can actually run installed apps
<cjwatson>  * get click packages into touch images
<cjwatson>  * demo to Mark at end of month.  NO PRESSURE
<cjwatson> Questions, discussion?
<barry> cjwatson: can you describe the dbus api a bit more?  what is the scope? what does it do and/or provide?
<cjwatson> This isn't something that distributes madly to lots of foundations people, since we're leaving most existing packages as-is, but there are definitely places where I could use a check on my madness :)
<cjwatson> barry: I think the best thing to do there is to point to the active mailing list thread on the subject
<cjwatson> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-appstore-developers/msg00151.html
<slangasek> so I understand all the Ubuntu Touch core apps are meant to be made available as click packages soon, rather than .debs (which I guess is the "get packages into touch images" part).  how's that coming along?
<barry> cjwatson: thanks
<cjwatson> We'll basically end up with a very cut-down version of the PK API, probably - so you can install from files, remove packages, list packages, but not necessarily do complex upgrades or install by package name (depending on how/whether we hook up the download service)
<cjwatson> I don't really feel a need to invent a new API for it
<xnox> cjwatson: delta-clicks defined yet?
<xnox> (as what delta-debs are to debs)
<cjwatson> slangasek: That's the goal for this month, and I've done some experimentation with it, but it won't make sense to do it until something's hooked up so that you can actually execute the app :)
<slangasek> heh, ok :)
<barry> cjwatson: the "download service" is coming out of the click work, and we're trying to make it generic enough to be useful for image updates
<cjwatson> I've been talking with Ted about the details of that, abstracted above as "desktop file hook"
<cjwatson> xnox: good question, thanks - I have notes in https://click-package.readthedocs.org/en/latest/todo.html#delta-updates
<cjwatson> xnox: I have a back-burner project to port debdelta to Python 3 so that we can more readily contemplate using it
<cjwatson> xnox: I've already verified that it can at least approximately handle click packages, in theory
<cjwatson> barry: Do you think it might be possible to hook it up to things like the PK DownloadPackages (or whatever it is) API?
<cjwatson> PK has its own network stacks which talk to NM and the like, so maybe not
<cjwatson> But I kind of feel it'd be nice to push this sort of thing down as far as possible so that we can reuse more code ...
<barry> cjwatson: i think that should be a goal.  the rough api i've seen needs to be "genericized" a bit more, but currently is somewhat app-specific.  we should have a chat with mandel about that.
<barry> the download service will be responsible for stuff like suspend/resume downloads, wifi-only, interacting with settings, etc.  basically all the weird network vagaries a phone would see.
<barry> e.g. user shuts off her phone in the middle of a download
<cjwatson> I guess we don't want to turn every single TCP connection into a download notification, so it does want some awareness of what's doing the calling
<cjwatson> (I assume the download service is doing some kind of notifications?)
<barry> right.  there are a bunch of downloads the upgrader will do (e.g. is an update available) that don't need notification
<barry> yes.
<barry> details tbd.  i expect we'll see some more concrete stuff by next week and then can refine from there
<cjwatson> For now, it's not critical; the dash code can deal with downloads and then feed to PK.Transaction.InstallFiles or similar
<cjwatson> However in some ways it'd be easier if we could use an InstallPackages type interface (package names, not file names) because it would be easier to avoid duplicate downloads for the multi-user case
<barry> yep.  i need to refactor the upgrade client internally so that it can use either the download service or my built-in dumb downloader
<cjwatson> I've only really just started looking at PKish things so I'm a little hazy on some of this as yet
<cjwatson> And very happy that Sebastian has offered to help out there
<cjwatson> This month is going to be fairly brutally focused on getting to an end-to-end demoable state
<barry> okay, mandel says spec should be transferred to wiki pages rsn
<cjwatson> i.e. build app in QtCreator, upload to click server, search for it in dash, install on phone, run app
<cjwatson> I think it's doable; but if I tell anyone I can't help with something, this is probably why ;-)
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> if people wanted to get their hands dirty with this today, what would you suggest?
<slangasek> playing with the SDK?
<cjwatson> The SDK doesn't quite allow building click packages yet, but you can put the filesystem tree together and then run "click build" on it
<cjwatson> And "click install --force-missing-framework"
<cjwatson> It's still a little boring due to things like missing execution hooks, so the package in the archive at the moment is mostly for the purpose of putting more pieces together
<slangasek> very cool stuff
<cjwatson> For this audience, I'd also like people to have a look at the hooks interface from the POV of a world with a read-only system partition
<slangasek> when will qtcreator integration happen?  I notice the blueprint has a work item for talking about it, but not for making it happen ;)
<cjwatson> Since I wrote it before I'd fully understood what was going on there, it probably needs some rework
<cjwatson> https://click-package.readthedocs.org/en/latest/hooks.html
<slangasek> right... the putting-stuff-not-on-the-root-filesystem question
<cjwatson> I talked to Zoltan about that on 20 June, and he said then that he was going to be attacking the implementation from that Monday
<slangasek> if there are some touch apps shipped in the image, does that mean there'll be two directories on the search path?
<cjwatson> However I gather he's now on paternity leave, so it's just possible that there have been some distractions
<slangasek> cjwatson: right, I was just noticing that :)
<cjwatson> Loic and Daniel have been trying to chase up what's happening there, I believe
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> Right, we are going to end up with multiple click installation directories, I believe, possibly abstracted through a symlink farm
<cjwatson> Per-user app installation implies each user having symlinks to their own current versions of apps
<cjwatson> So there are a couple of different ways we could assemble that
<cjwatson> There's also some question of OEM overrides
<cjwatson> Watch this space, I'm not totally sure yet :)
<stgraber> cjwatson: I guess lool will be poking you about this soon but we had a meeting about oem customizations this morning and we'll likely have yet another path for that (/oem/...) that will contain some click packages too (probably in their packed rather than unpacked form, but I'll let lool and you figure the details)
<slangasek> ok :)
<lool> (poked already  :-)
<cjwatson> As I said on ubuntu-appstore-developers (thread linked to barry above), I think this needs to be designed in conjunction with the D-Bus API to make sure it all works properly
 * lool hugs
<cjwatson> stgraber: Yeah, that was what I was shorthanding as "OEM overrides"
<cjwatson> TBH that further guides me towards managing things by way of a per-user symlink farm, but it depends a little on how much wants to be mandatory as opposed to merely default, if you see what I mean
<cjwatson> Personally I think that if we don't allow users to remove OEM customisations that are there by default, then we are not on the side of the angels
<cjwatson> But maybe somebody will override me there ;-)
<slangasek> so I definitely look forward to seeing this in action at the end of the month
<slangasek> I suspect having apps on my Ubuntu Touch will make quite a difference in its utility ;)
<cjwatson> Um, yes, quite :)
<beuno> pft, so demanding.
<cjwatson> Weaning myself off all the apps I have for Android might take a while
<slangasek> waiting for the Ubuntu Touch Ingress port
<slangasek> (that one might be a while in coming)
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: cool, thanks for filling us in on the click work
<slangasek> any other questions?
<cjwatson> give me a non-webapp twitter client and I'll be happy ;-)
<barry> +1
<slangasek> haha
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul  3 15:55:03 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-03-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-03-15.02.html
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> cjwatson: there is non-webapp twitter client on touch images, via friends app. one does need to launch authentication via adb shell, but it otherwise works good.
<cjwatson> xnox: ah, ok
<xnox> cjwatson: http://askubuntu.com/questions/310172/how-to-add-accounts-to-friends-app-in-ubuntu-touch
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-04
<dholbach> hello
<pleia2> o/
<zequence> hi
<smartboyhw> o/ from me and zequence for Ubuntu Studio:)
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  4 17:00:27 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<smartboyhw> It's 1:00 AM here actually:P
<cub> o/ Ubuntu Studio as well
<pleia2> #chair dholbach Gwaihir czajkowski beuno
<meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir beuno czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<pleia2> Welcome to the Community Council Meeting :)
<zequence> thank you :)
<smartboyhw> \o/
<leoquant> thx
<pleia2> #agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> I think we'll dive right in with the Ubuntu Studio check-in since they all seem to be here :)
<pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Studio check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Studio check-in
<smartboyhw> pleia2, #agenda doesn't exist in available commands, IIRC:P
<pleia2> so during these check-ins we pretty much just ask how things are going, see if you need any help with anything, share exciting stories :)
<pleia2> smartboyhw: it's human-readable
<pleia2> so anyone is welcome to jump in
<pleia2> how are things going? :)
<cub> I joined recently, so I think everything's great.
<zequence> Not bad. We're not a big team, but we have some exciting things in the works
<dholbach> what's planned for 13.10? :)
<smartboyhw> Multiple DE support
<zequence> The main thing I suppose is that we're experimenting with becoming DE agnostics
<dholbach> how is that going work?
<zequence> Well, as it seems, we could create a meta package that depends on another DE, then override a few things, like artwork (if felt important), and also anything else that would seem required from a technical perspective
<smartboyhw> dholbach, you mean the progress or the method?
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> but you'd then still create ISOs for multiple DEs? or ... well ... flavours of Ubuntu Studio?
<czajkowski> sorry I'm a bit late, traffic/airport
<dholbach> welcome czajkowski
<zequence> So far, we're still sticking with having a default DE that we maintain ourselves, but there is a chance that we might not need to keep our own seed files for any DE (at least from what it seems to me currently)
<dholbach> ok
<zequence> and just use overrides
 * pleia2 nods
<zequence> we've become much more active in social channels, our website and on the wikis
<zequence> so, that's a change for the better
<dholbach> do you get much feedback?
<zequence> we're planning to co youtube videos too
<zequence> dholbach: sure, all though, the amount of users we have is probably much less than for other, bigger flavors
<zequence> the forum is probably the most used (ubuntuforums.org)
<cub> Many questions are similar and about how to get going with audio or video
<cub> So updated documentation and video tutorials might improve a lot
<zequence> our main goal is really 14.04 as it seems right now. that will probably be a big makeover moment for us
<pleia2> cub: tha would be great
<pleia2> that
<dholbach> I remember there were some difficulties with the -rt kernel in the past - was that resolved somehow?
<smartboyhw> dholbach, we are going to remake it for 14.04 or later
<smartboyhw> Since zequence has got some kernel maintenance skills with linux-lowlatency
<zequence> dholbach: since it was possible to tweak -generic for low latency (since around 2.6.37 or so), linux-lowlatency was born. Included since Precise
<dholbach> perfect
<zequence> now maintained by me, and it is really just -generic, rebased, with a few config changes
<pleia2> great
<zequence> we had a lot of help from UKT on this
<zequence> and of course, Alessio Bogani, who created it initially
<zequence> it's integrated into the kernel SRU process now
<dholbach> awesome
<zequence> One thing that I've personally worked on for a while is making a map of flavor specific developer documentation. There's a lot of resources out there, but that is one thing I'd like to help improve
<zequence> there's a lot to know, and with small teams like ours, it's really great to have instant access to all of the information needed in order to maintain a flavotr
<dholbach> that might also something where newer contributors might be able to help out
<zequence> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation is a beginning of that
<pleia2> yeah, they can share their own pain points so you can figure out where docs need to be written/improved
<pleia2> nice
<zequence> I find that to be a very importan part in trying to get more people involved. It should be as easy as possible
 * pleia2 nods
<zequence> And, that is of course another big goal for us
<cub> As quite new in the team I can attest that it's a bit hard to get a grip on everything, so that documentation will make a big improvement
<ttoine> hop
<zequence> ttoine: hi
<pleia2> sounds like you folks are working on lots of great things, thanks for joining us today :)
<zequence> thanks :)
<ttoine> yw
<pleia2> and our door is open always if you ever discover you need anything, just let us know
<pleia2> shall we move on to check-in with Xubuntu?
<ttoine> so I guess I already missed everything ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, yeah:PP
<ttoine> :-(
<pleia2> ttoine: if you have anything to say about the work studio is doing, please feel free :)
<zequence> ttoine has been working on a webshop for Ubuntu Studio
<ttoine> pleia2, I work for Studio since its beginning
<ttoine> and I enjoy the fact that it is more more ready to use out of the box
<pleia2> webshop?
<zequence> ttoine: I suppose you would be the best to answer any questions on that :)
<ttoine> pleia2, yes
<ttoine> I have the licence from Canonical
<pleia2> not questioning that, just curious as to what it is/will offer :)
<ttoine> And a agreement with them and Spreadshirt. At the moment, the artwork is created, and I just need to find a bit of time to push the products online
<pleia2> oh, studio-branded products?
<ttoine> to be very original, we will start with a mug and 3 different colors of t-shirt
<ttoine> then, we will see if spreadshirt does the job well
<pleia2> cool
<ttoine> yes !
<dholbach> awesome
<smartboyhw> This is rather a surprise project I think, but ttoine has been working on it extensively
<ttoine> it will be available this summer. I actually am moving from one city to another (new job) and I don't have Internet at home
<pleia2> great (and congrats on new job)
<zequence> we recently got a new art lead, goes by the nick madeinkobaia, and this really boosts our ability to show a prettier face towards the public
<pleia2> cool
<czajkowski> wel done :)
<czajkowski> *well
<ttoine> pleia2, you are welcome. I am proud to work now for an open source editor
<ttoine> madeinkobaia is really a talented artist
<pleia2> those are good people to have around
<ttoine> yes. Open Source needs to be beautiful. most of all, when it is about art production
<pleia2> :)
<smartboyhw> zequence's headhunting has been rather successful I think
<smartboyhw> Many people expressed interest in joining
<ttoine> As one of the cofounder of Ubuntu Studio, years ago, I am glad to see the work done by the current team !!
<ttoine> we eventually are creating a community. this is quite new
<smartboyhw> Yeah ttoine zequence what happened to our history page? :P
<ttoine> on the website ? or on Wikipedia ?
<pleia2> alright, I think we can wrap this portion up and get to the Xubuntu folks
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot Ubuntu Studio people! :)
<zequence> yep, thanks all
<cub> :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<pleia2> #topic Xubuntu check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu check-in
<ttoine> thank you all
<pleia2> ok, who all is here from Xubuntu?
<elfy> o/
<skellat> o/
<pleia2> o/
<czajkowski> hey there folks thanks for coming.
<micahg> o/
<czajkowski> how are things this cycle for Xubuntu going ?
<elfy> I'll go first - suffering a bit
<elfy> we've made remarkable inroads into manual testcases, the autopilot testing is not so good - but we're not completely sure yet if it will help us
<micahg> it should when someone has time to dig into it :)
<czajkowski> in what way is autopilot not so good and is there some way the QA team can help you ?
<elfy> we'd probably prefer to be able to get more testing done - but that's about calling for help for it when we need
<czajkowski> nods
<pleia2> czajkowski: mostly people-power
<czajkowski> a lot of projects feel that way about testing :)
<czajkowski> pleia2: ack
<elfy> czajkowski: we're not completely sure at present - but autopilot works well with ubuntu/unity - not so well with other apps
<elfy> but - hopefully we can make use of ubiquity autopilot tests
<czajkowski> elfy: is this something the team has raised and tried to work with balloons and the QA team with ?
<czajkowski> to see how it can work or where to help?
<elfy> and I talk to balloons quite frequently so it's not about talking - more about making it work for us - IF we decide it's actually of any use to us
<pleia2> yeah, all the QA teams work pretty closely together
<Unit193> I'm here for Xubuntu, sorry for being late.  (Coffee...)
<elfy> so - really there's not much that you can help us with at present :)
<pleia2> I think the main issue is that it's tedious work to get autopilot tests written (they must be very specific) so we need folks who have time to dig into it (as micahg said) and spend the time
<elfy> pleia2: not so much that it's tedious - more that it doesn't like our apps much :)
<czajkowski> nods and sometimes people do not have the time
<elfy> absolutely
<micahg> elfy: not liking apps might be a fixable issue
<czajkowski> pleia2: you're saying one thing and elfy says theother, is it a mixture of the two ?
<czajkowski> micahg: ahh ok
<pleia2> what micahg said
<elfy> +1
<elfy> but - I'm also not at all sure it's going to help us - which is another issue altogether
<pleia2> elfy put out a call for help with both manual and auto tests today, so hopefully that will drum up some interest :) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-July/009051.html
<czajkowski> ah ok  just so we;re all on the same page
<czajkowski> dholbach: beuno any comments?
<czajkowski> pleia2: in general any other issues or concerns or thoughts you would like to air?
<pleia2> project-wde we're still pretty lean on developers, but we're chugging away
<elfy> I think project wide we are still pretty lean full stop ;)
<dholbach> are you in touch with your users? (like what the Ubuntu Studio guys mentioned earlier, social media, etc.)
<pleia2> yeah, twitter, g+ and facebook
<skellat> Social media presences are pretty active
<Unit193> And of course the users and devel mailing lists.
<pleia2> lots of feedback from them, and we x-post all our calls for help so that's brought in some casual contributions
<czajkowski> pleia2: what do you mean x-post ?
<pleia2> czajkowski: cross-post
<skellat> s/x-post/crosspost/
<czajkowski> pleia2: ah yes, sorry. :)
<dholbach> what kind of casual contributions were those?
<pleia2> just recently heard from a community deploying xubuntu in their organization, so will have an interview with them up on the site soon
<pleia2> bug reports, drive by testing
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> did some of them stick around?
<pleia2> not really so far, but our social media is just a few months old, so we'll see :)
<dholbach> awesome
<pleia2> we also leveraged existing social media outlets - the facebook and g+ things already existed when we made them "official"
<elfy> some people do dholbach - that elfy guy did and look what he ended up holding
<pleia2> linkedin too
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> where do you feel you'd need help the most?
<Unit193> pleia2: Whereever we picked up lderan.
<pleia2> oh, we've gotten new contributors in general, just not sure about how many from social media (elfy has been around ubuntu forever!)
<skellat> pleia2: I wandered in from the shadows more fully around vUDS-1303
<elfy> pleia2: thanks - now I feel really old :p
<pleia2> probably development help, there are always more things we want to get done in a cycle
<pleia2> elfy: <3
<pleia2> really happy that we got a bunch of clean-up work done for 13.04, ended up being a really solid release but not particularly innovative :)
<dholbach> I'm sure your users appreciate "really solid" :)
<pleia2> indeed!
<skellat> With luck we'll get apt-offline seeded this cycle too
<pleia2> hoping for 4.12 as well, but we're dependent upon upstream and not sure it will land in time
<pleia2> xfce ^^
<dholbach> I'm all set in terms of questions :)
<pleia2> we're meeting with jono next week to discuss Mir
<dholbach> ah yes, he mentioned it in passing
<dholbach> beuno, Gwaihir, czajkowski? more questions?
<pleia2> thanks xubuntu folks :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot!
<elfy> cheers
<skellat> cheers
 * dholbach hugs you all!
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<pleia2> anyone have anything else? :)
<dholbach> no, I'm all set
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  4 17:57:05 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-04-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-04-17.00.html
<Unit193> Danke.
<kokoye2007> á·á·hi Neo31`
<kokoye2007> hi salih-emin
<Ck> Hi,thohi
<salih-emin> hi to all
<Ck> HI to All
<Neo31`> hi kokoye2007
<HoNo> á·hi
<Neo31`> hello everybody :)
<kokoye2007> Hi Dolasilla
<thohi> hi :)
<Dolasilla> hello all :)
<Ck> hi kokoye , hono
<kokoye2007> wc Ethan-Kurt
<Ck> Hay ..Ethan Kurt
<Ethan-Kurt> Hi all
<neo31> hi
<Ethan-Kurt> Good day neo31
<Ethan-Kurt> How's everything?
<neo31> hi Ethan-Kurt , great :)
<neo31> how about you?
<Ethan-Kurt>  /msg NickServ identify Dun+rytohackm3
<Ck> Hay , Sai Kham
<kokoye2007> wc salih-emin saimawnkham yeminn Ethan-Kurt thohi Ck HoNo
<saimawnkham> Yes
<neo31> ouch Ethan-Kurt !!
<Ethan-Kurt> sure!
<yeminn> I won't Ethan :D
<Ethan-Kurt> ;( :( x(
<Ethan-Kurt> Keyboard ;( :( x(
<Ck> Hay childplay lugyimin
<Ethan-Kurt> that's okay. this passwd is only for IRC
<Ethan-Kurt> just temporary
<neo31> :)
<kokoye2007> hi lugyimin mobile phone owner
<lugyimin> -_-
<lugyimin> where's HM, KKMH?
<Ck> Hi ashams
<kokoye2007> wc sawkhaing
<Ck> Ko Saw
<Ck> hi hihi
<sawkhaing> hello
<kokoye2007> wc htutmyat_
<Ck> hi htut
<kokoye2007> change with nick command htutmyat_
<salih-emin> wc time !!!
<kokoye2007> yes salih-emin we are ubuntu-mm member :)
<salih-emin> :)
<kokoye2007> salih-emin: many testimonials in your wiki. so gr8. proud ubuntu-gr and u
<salih-emin> kokoye2007, thank you for your kind words and I realy thank all the good people for their support !
<Ethan-Kurt> Countdown (Only 2 minutes left)
<htutmyat> hi
<s-fox> hello
<hggdh> are we all set?
<s-fox> o/
<hggdh> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  4 22:00:44 2013 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<hggdh> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2200 UTC meeting for July 4th, 2013.
<IdleOne> o/
<PabloRubianes> hello all
<iulian> \o
<hggdh> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<hggdh> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<hggdh> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<hggdh> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<hggdh> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<hggdh> #voter micahg s-fox PabloRubianes IdleOne iulian hggdh
<hggdh> hum, where's the response?
<s-fox> i had my vote notification
<IdleOne> try #voters
<hggdh> nevermind. So, now, for the first candidate
<hggdh> #voters micahg s-fox PabloRubianes IdleOne iulian hggdh
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes hggdh iulian micahg s-fox
<hggdh> yeah
<hggdh> Dolasilla: please present yorself
<Dolasilla> Hi all! :)
<iulian> Hi there.
<Dolasilla> This is Silvia, I am an Italian computer engineer currently living in France.
<Dolasilla> I have joined the Ubuntu community around 2007 through the UbuntuWomen group
<Dolasilla> with the goal to involve more people, particularly women, in the community
<Dolasilla> later I got in touch with the Italian loco team (around 2010)
<Dolasilla> where I am mainly active in the promotion group, writing on a weelky basis on the newsletter, contributing to presentations with talks
<Dolasilla> and some other activites
<IdleOne> Dolasilla: Please link to your wiki page
<Dolasilla> I also work on the italian ubuntu website, and give some contribution to translations
<Dolasilla> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SilviaBindelli
<Dolasilla> I am currently in the board uf Ubuntu Women
<Dolasilla> and, in Italy, I contributed to create the local chapter of the group
<IdleOne> Lots of impressive work :)
<iulian> Very nice.
<hggdh> yep. So...
<PabloRubianes> yes nice work!
<s-fox> i am impressed
<s-fox> :)
<Dolasilla> :) thanks
<PabloRubianes> let's vote
<PabloRubianes> :)
<s-fox> agreed
<hggdh> #vote for Dolasilla as an Ubuntu Member
<meetingology> Please vote on: for Dolasilla as an Ubuntu Member
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<iulian> +1 Keep up the good work.
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work. received from iulian
<IdleOne> +1
<s-fox> +1 nice work :D
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<meetingology> +1 nice work :D received from s-fox
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<hggdh> +1 no question :-)
<meetingology> +1 no question :-) received from hggdh
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<IdleOne> #endvote
<hggdh> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for Dolasilla as an Ubuntu Member
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congrats Dolasilla!!!
<PabloRubianes> congrats Dolasilla keep the work going!
<s-fox> congratulations
<hggdh> Dolasilla: welcome!
<Dolasilla> thanks!!! :)
<Gwaihir> congrats Dolasilla! \o/
<Deindre> congrats Dolasilla!!!
<Dolasilla> thank you all :)
<kokoye2007> congratulations Dolasilla
<s-fox> thank you for your efforts
<neo31> congratulations Dolasilla
<yeminn> Congratulations Dolasilla
<Dolasilla> thanks :)
<hggdh> salih-emin: please introduce yourself, and link your wiki and launchpad pages
<saimawnkham> Congratulations Dolasilla
<salih-emin> Hi !
<thohi> Great Ubuntu woman
<salih-emin> My name is Salih, I live and work as an IT Consultant in Greece
<salih-emin> here is my wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SalihEmin
<salih-emin> I have been in the Linux world since 2002
<salih-emin> and with Ubuntu since 2007
<salih-emin> My daily work with members of Ubuntu Greece is giving advices
<salih-emin> and support for any kind of problem
<salih-emin> but most of my job is advocating the use of Ubuntu for evrey day jobs
<salih-emin> I love helping new users to get involved with Ubuntu and the community
<hggdh> salih-emin: please wait a bit, we are discussing it in the background
<salih-emin> ok !
<salih-emin> :)
<hggdh> #voters chilicui1
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes chilicui1 hggdh iulian micahg s-fox
<chilicui1> salih-emin, it seems like optimus kernel has been left a little behind, do you plans to trying to push your changes to the ubuntu kernel?
<salih-emin> yes that is true, I am working on providing it through PPA rather than
<salih-emin> downloadable deb packages
<hggdh> #vote on salih-emin for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: on salih-emin for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<eliasps> +1
<s-fox> +1
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<chilicui1> +1, incredible work, you radiate energy, it will be our pleasure to have you with us
<meetingology> +1, incredible work, you radiate energy, it will be our pleasure to have you with us received from chilicui1
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<hggdh> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on salih-emin for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congrats salih-emin and welcome.
<hggdh> salih-emin: welcome!
<salih-emin> thank you all !!!!
<tr3quart1sta> congrats!!!
<chilicui1> welcome aboard salih-emin =)
<kokoye2007> welcome 2 ubuntu-member salih-emin
<PabloRubianes> congrats salih-emin
<Ethan-Kurt> congrats ubuntu-member salih-emin
<salih-emin> thank you all, proud to be member !
<htutmyat> Congrats salih-emin :)
<NikTh> Congratulations salih-emin . Welcome aboard. :-)
<neo31> conratulations salih-emin
<salih-emin> thank you all !
<Ck> Cheer salih-emin
<saimawnkham> congrats salih :)
<Ck> =1
<Ck> +1
<Ck> hello next ?
<IdleOne> patience :)
<thohi> :)
<kokoye2007> we are sleepless local 4:30 AM  IdleOne  :P
<IdleOne> For all the people who applied from Myanmar. We are happy that such a large number of you want to become Ubuntu members. We do have some concerns though...
<htutmyat> :)
<PabloRubianes> kokoye2007, I told the Myanmar this time was not so good for you
<Ethan-Kurt> We all really are contributor and we hope to be a Ubuntu-Member
<lugyimin> :)
<IdleOne> The main concern we have is that all of your wiki pages appear to be very similar in terms of contributions. We like to see a more personal listing of what each member has done on his/her own.
<iulian> We don't offer membership to a group, but rather to individuals. It looks like all your wiki pages are the same,  more or less. The testimonials have been given between you guys, except for one person who's already a member (Pyae Sone). Having said that, I would like you to put some effort in writing your own wiki page with detailed explanation of what your contributions are.
<iulian> We are sure that you guys are doing good work out there but your wiki pages are way too similar. So we cannot really judge who's doing what.
<IdleOne> So, what the Membership Board has decided to do is to postpone the voting to our email list and give you all an extra 7 days before we start voting.
<iulian> Or you guys can even extend that 7 days to whatever you think is best for you.
<Ethan-Kurt> We can also write down in here.
<Ck> becuse of we contributing with group in Myanmar . We go together all around the state .
<kokoye2007> all are Ubuntu-MM Core Memer
<IdleOne> We hope you all understand that we want to make sure we have all the information possible so that we can make the best decision for the Ubuntu community.
<kokoye2007> _member
<Ethan-Kurt> In our country, it's 05:00am and we didn't sleep just for a while
<Ck> that's why our team leader make a templates.
<Ck> What we all are...
<Ethan-Kurt> sure! our template are the same because we contributed together
<kokoye2007> when we go event and make event
<Ethan-Kurt> that's why we have the same template
<kokoye2007> together whenever
<Ethan-Kurt> you can see our activities at  http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-mm
<iulian> Ethan-Kurt: Then please document that in your wiki pages. Like we said above we don't grant membership to an entire group.
<PabloRubianes> I understand that but this is an individual process
<kokoye2007> all about is my mistake
<htutmyat> Why not the chance like the 2 above ?
<Ethan-Kurt> Our individual project is shown on "About me"
<saimawnkham> its ok.
<saimawnkham> i quit
<htutmyat> you can dicusss with each ,that are not real or not ,right ?
<kokoye2007> who is ubuntu-mm core member - approval in template :(
<kokoye2007> upset
<iulian> Ethan-Kurt: No, that section is just "About me". It's not saying anything about your contributions to Ubuntu.
<kokoye2007> who seen wiki, who see activity
<Ethan-Kurt> Dear iulian, it's okay you decided like this.
<chilicui1> let's make this clear, we're not rejecting your applications, we just want to make sure we're not approving in batch, so we're giving you 7 more days to polish your wiki pages, then we'll vote for your approval
<Ethan-Kurt> I can still contribute even I am not the member of Ubuntu
<IdleOne> Please try to understand that we are not trying to punish anybody. What we want is to give each one of you the best possible chance at approval.
<Ethan-Kurt> I've just seen the contributing power
<Ethan-Kurt> no wiki
<Ethan-Kurt> whatever, you are the boardmember.
<IdleOne> We are not rejecting any of you at this time
<Ethan-Kurt> you can decided what you want to
<Ethan-Kurt> thanks
<IdleOne> I want that to be clear
<yeminn> I see, chilicui1 :)
<Ethan-Kurt> upset :(
<IdleOne> kokoye2007: you are the loco contact correct?
<kokoye2007> yes IdleOne
<kokoye2007> i am ubuntu-mm leader and ubuntu-member
<IdleOne> ok Please hold for a moment
<Ck> We are grouply contributing Ubuntu in our country . and than Yangon city Development Committe (YCDC) already change Ubuntu Os because of  our team.our group .
<kokoye2007> IdleOne: it's my idea and my mistake
<Ethan-Kurt> Currently, I am the Ubuntu instructor and technical supporter of  Yangon City Development Committee (Government Sector) and University of Computer Studies in Thaton.
<kokoye2007> but they are real activity Ubuntu Contributor
<kokoye2007> ok skip it. ;P
<Ck> that'swhy we always says I am what I am because of who we all are.
<IdleOne> kokoye2007: you did not make any mistakes. Everybody please calm down
<Ethan-Kurt> Most of my times have been passed by contributing Ubuntu
<PabloRubianes> please could you hold the chat a little
<Ck> and than We can't sleep for hole night .
<iulian> Please don't get us wrong here. We are just trying to point you guys in the right direction so that next time when you come to the meeting we won't have to talk about this matters again. We have acknowledged the fact that you guys are doing excellent job with your group.
<Ethan-Kurt> Okay.
<Ethan-Kurt> I'm done with all of you
<iulian> It's just that we cannot really judge who is doing what. Maybe someone is doing much more than the other and we wouldn't want to grant membership to someone who's not doing anything or the like.
<Ethan-Kurt> I will share this meeting log
<Ethan-Kurt> in Google+ and
<Ethan-Kurt> let decided the ppl
<Ethan-Kurt> I am done with you
<iulian> Hmm.
<kokoye2007> launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mm-council is our admin team
<kokoye2007> hey neo31
<kokoye2007> time for you :)
<IdleOne> kokoye2007: please join #ubuntu-rmb
<Ck> pass me .
<yeminn> dun be serious Ethan
<Ck> next ok
<iulian> kokoye2007: Could you please talk to Ethan and tell him to calm down?
<hggdh> all: we are NOT refusing your application.
<neo31> :)
<kokoye2007> i think time is too short
<IdleOne> hggdh: Please end the meeting until we can speak with kokoye2007
<kokoye2007> sorry neo31,
<thohi> yes, we understand . only different point of view
<neo31> :(
<neo31> is it my turn or is the meeting aborted kokoye2007 ?
<Ck>  I'd love to sharing and contribute Ubuntu in Local community . And most of my life deeply invest in Ubuntu Development and try to exam LPI in next year and would like to proudly become Ubuntu Member.
<Ck> who next ?
<Ck> go ahead
<neo31> ok
<hggdh> neo31: it seems we will have to hold on you
<IdleOne> wait!
<neo31> Should I post my sentences hggdh ?
<hggdh> neo31: yes, please go ahead
<neo31> Thank you hggdh, hello dear members.
<neo31> I am Ahmed Sghaier, a Tunisian software engineer and a network security and services IT specialist. My first experience with Linux was in 2002 and switched to it as my main OS in 2005.
<neo31> Later in 2008 I have joined Ubuntu Tunisian LoCo team and became an active member in 2009.
<neo31> I have been approved as a Freedom Fighter (approved active members) in the team in 2010 and joined the management commitee of the team in 2011.
<chilicui1> hi neo31 welcome
<neo31> In 2012 I was assisting our LoCo contact when possible, and I have been approved as the official LoCo contact in 2013 election. I am also now the secretary general of CLibre, a FLOSS NGO supporting Tunisian communities.
<neo31> I have contributed to 25 IRL events during last years (local, national and international events as a speaker, workshop trainer, coordinator, organizer or assistant). I have contributed also on IRC, ML, forums and many of our sub teams (media, events, relations, documentation and reporting)
<neo31> hi chilicui1 :)
<neo31> this is my wiki page for review : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AhmedSghaier
<chilicui1> neo31, do you photos or links to the conferences you've participated?
<alaya> hi, I'm the former loco contact of Ubuntu-tn and a Ubuntu Member. I'm here to support Neo31
<neo31> yes chilicui1 there are many links on events page
<iulian> alaya: Great.
<neo31> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/Events
<chilicui1> neo31: thanks
<neo31> some other links could be found also on our team report page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/TeamReports
<neo31> I have uploaded some photos today to https://plus.google.com/photos/109786888015890437987/albums/5896864064045728145?authkey=CKrv-ITLl4a2Ow
<neo31> unfortunately on of our main photos source got down lately and I am recollecting some other photos
<neo31> but alaya can confirm my contributions to the events you want
<chilicui1> I've seen you're interested in becoming a MOTU, however your lp account don't reflect activity in that area, are you having issues there?
<neo31> we have been working on packaging workshops during UGJ
<neo31> now that we have enough knowledge about packaging and how it works I became interested in joining the MOTU team
<alaya> I confirm the participation of neo. there is a little problem in the servers of the free community here in tunisia (I have conctacted the admin)
<neo31> I will be seeking a MOTU sponsor before next UGJ and organize some IRC classrooms for the team
<chilicui1> got it neo31, just wondering
<neo31> Then I will start contributing real packages to next releases before I apply to join the MOTU team
<neo31> :) good chilicui1
<iulian> neo31: #ubuntu-motu is always there to help you. ;-)
<micahg> sounds good, MOTU can always use more help :)
<neo31> sure iulian
<hggdh> OK
<iulian> neo31: Thanks for the information.
<hggdh> #vote on neo31 for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: on neo31 for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<iulian> +1 Great work.
<meetingology> +1 Great work. received from iulian
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<hggdh> +1 thank you for your work
<meetingology> +1 thank you for your work received from hggdh
<chilicui1> +1, I'm sure you will get MOTU and will keep up your nice contributions to the Ubuntu-TN team, thanks for inspire us
<meetingology> +1, I'm sure you will get MOTU and will keep up your nice contributions to the Ubuntu-TN team, thanks for inspire us received from chilicui1
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<hggdh> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on neo31 for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congrats neo31 and welcome!
<hggdh> neo31: welcome!
<yeminn> Congratulations neo31!
<yeminn> :)
<neo31> Thank you very much :)
<alaya> mabrouk (congrates)  neo  :)
<chilicui1> welcome aboard neo31
<Ck> congratulations Neo
<thohi> neo31 cheer :)
<iulian> Congratulations, neo31 and keep up the good work. I hope I will see you soon in #ubuntu-motu.
<neo31> cheers, I will do my best to improve my contributions
<hggdh> OK. Now I believe all the pending candidates are the ones involved in the current confusion. We are discussing with kokoye2007 in the backstage.
<neo31> thank you iulian
<hggdh> I will hold the meeting open for a while
<PabloRubianes> congrats neo31
<lunapersa> Congratulations  neo31
<neo31> thank you PabloRubianes alaya lunapersa :)
<salih-emin> neo31 congrats !
<neo31> thank you salih-emin
<hggdh> given the time -- 2255 UST, I will close this meeting. The conversation with kokoye2007 will keep on
<hggdh> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  4 22:55:26 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-04-22.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-04-22.00.html
<IoannisM_> Salih congrats ! you deserve it! Keep walking
<salih-emin> thanks IoannisM_ !
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-06-30
<bdrung_work> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung_work> meeting in 10 mins
<xnox> bdrung_work: yeap.
<Laney> el google just reminded me
<bdrung_work> !dmb-ping
<bdrung_work> who is chair?
<bdmurray_> person after micah I believe
<Laney> should be him but he can't come
<xnox> well is zequence around and do we have people here who have not expressed opinion on his application yet?
<xnox> or if that one is handled via email, then we don't have anything on the agenda?
<xnox> Maybe we can/need to discuss the meeting times, and maybe we can find times that are still geographically displaced but are also appropriate across the current set of DMB members?
<Laney> I don't get why people didn't vote on his application yet.
<xnox> Laney: i believe I've casted my vote via email. Who's votes are missing?
<Laney> It's Laney xnox stgraber who have voted
<bdrung_work> mine is probably missing. i have collected e-mail backlog over the last one or two weeks.
<bdmurray> One thing I found confusing was I thought there was a reference to this person applying previously and a need for more Endorsements but yet there was still only one. Am I misremembering things though?
<bdrung_work> there's only one positive comment, but not one endorsement
<Laney> That's right and you are entitled to have that concern
<Laney> Look at the history of the thread on devel-permissions for some more information
<Laney> The people that voted must have felt they had enough information to judge anyway
<xnox> bdrung_work: well, i've been critized for not writting in an endorsement. I am endorsing him in the scope of ubuntustudio-* packages. Ultimately, he is a product lead for those packages and is technically competent in updating/reviewing/uploading them.
<bdrung_work> xnox, can you put that statement on his application (for documentation purpose)?
<xnox> and is kind of responsible & in-charge of them, as a product lead. I have often seen ubuntustudio-* packages slip into FFe, due to lack of sponsorship in the area of cd-customizing packages, which ubuntustudio-* packages are.
<xnox> bdrung_work: right. Let me write up a paragraph on the application.
<xnox> #action xnox to commit zequence's endorsement on the wiki-page application
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-01
<lutostag> o/
<rharper> \o
<gnuoy> o/
<tych0> \o
<smoser> o/
<smoser> o./
<coreycb> o/
<gaughen> o/
<matsubara> o/
<lutostag> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<rharper> man, what's with the bot these days
<lutostag> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
 * matsubara wonders if tych0 and rharper are left handed.
<lutostag> There were none, so we're good there
<lutostag> #topic Utopic Development
<lutostag> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<rharper> matsubara: hehe
<kickinz1> o/
<lutostag> Alpha1 was yesterday, smoser said we were done last week
<tych0> i was really just following rharper's lead there
<lutostag> Alpha2 is at end of month, so nothing for a while
<lutostag> #subtopic Release Bugs
<lutostag> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> alpha1 was thursday
<smoser> http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/14.10/alpha-1/
<smoser> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2014/06/27/ubuntu-14-10-utopic-unicorn-alpha-1-released/
<smoser> but that is finished, yes.
<lutostag> smoser: sweet, thanks
<lutostag> same clamav bug as last week is the only high
<lutostag> we need to make sure we are doing enough triage to make sure we aren't missing anything (me included)
<lutostag> #subtopic Blueprints
<lutostag> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<lutostag> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<lutostag> we need to make progress, but still got lots of time in this cycle
<lutostag> anything else on blueprint front?
<lutostag> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<lutostag> caribou said there's nothing particular on his side
<lutostag> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> lutostag: no updates from us, smoke testing runs fine
<psivaa> for utopic that is
<lutostag> :)
<lutostag> I'm guessing no questions for you guys then...
<lutostag> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Not much from my side. Just a bit of whining about (again) finding that some feature/patch silently went away in Utopic when a new version from upstream was merged. While it is a reminder for getting back to that upstream discussion I rather would no *accidentally* find out. :-P
<smb> libvirt that is
<smb>  /whining
<lutostag> alright, anything besides libvirt?
<smb> not at this point in time
<lutostag> smb: thanks!
<lutostag> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<lutostag> anything coming up?
<lutostag> I dont know of anything, so I guess thats a no
<lutostag> #topic Open Discussion
<lutostag> I guess we're all a little quiet today :)
<lutostag> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
<lutostag> +7days
<lutostag> rharper: you will *actually* be chair next week
<rharper> hehe
<lutostag> thanks everyone
<lutostag> #endmeeting
<rharper> thanks lutostag
<kickinz1> thanks
<gnuoy> thanks lutostag
<gaughen> thanks lutostag!
<jamespage> thanks lutostag
<bjf> o/
<smb> o/
<arges> o/
<cking> o/
<ppisati> ???
<henrix> o/
<rtg> o/
<sforshee> o/
<kamal> o?
<ogasawara> o/
<arges> has the meeting actually started?
<ppisati> no
<ogasawara> no, but we know the drill
<rtg> waiting on jsalisbury
<ppisati> ah
<smb> we just can't wait
<ppisati> \o/
<ppisati> in that case :)
<cking> don't blink less it's over
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury_> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury_> ##
<jsalisbury_> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<ppisati> \o/
<jsalisbury_> ##
<jsalisbury_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury_> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury_> #
<jsalisbury_> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury_> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury_> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<smb> o/ (again)
<kamal> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<ppisati> \o/
<arges> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury_> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury_> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury_> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have rebased our Utopic kernel "unstable" branch to v3.16-rc3 and
<ogasawara> uploaded to our ckt ppa (ppa:canonical-kernel-team/ppa).  Please test.
<ogasawara> I don't anticipate an official v3.16 based upload to the archive until
<ogasawara> further testing and baking has taken place.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Jul 24 - 14.04.1 (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Jul 31 - 14.10 Alpha 2 (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 07 - 12.04.5 (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury_> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury_> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury_> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury_> ..
<jsalisbury_> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Jul. 1):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   * Precise - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Kernel Prep
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> 14.04.1 cycle: 29-Jun through 07-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          27-Jun   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 29-Jun - 05-Jul   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 06-Jul - 12-Jul   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 13-Jul - 19-Jul   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> 20-Jul - 24-Jul   Release prep
<bjf>          24-Jul   14.04.1 Release [1]
<bjf>          07-Aug   12.04.5 Release [2]
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> [1] This will be the very last kernels for lts-backport-quantal, lts-backport-raring,
<bjf>     and lts-backport-saucy.
<bjf>  
<bjf> [2] This will be the lts-backport-trusty kernel as the default in the precise point
<bjf>     release iso.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury_> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury_> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury_> #endmeeting
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury_!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-03
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<cjwatson> oi oi
<infinity> o/
<cjwatson> let's see, I make it Barry, Brian, Steve off
 * stgraber waves
<doko> hi
<robru> hiya
<cjwatson> #topic Lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e doko stgraber jodh cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<cjwatson> bhuey jodh robru doko sil2100 cjwatson caribou stgraber infinity mvo xnox
<sil2100> o/
<infinity> Damnit.
<mvo> hi
 * xnox win \o/
<caribou> cjwatson: o/
<jodh> I guess bhuey is also out, so...
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - async support:
<jodh>     - Working with xnox on async test issues.
<jodh>     - Wrote lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/cgroups-and-process_data-reexec-test
<jodh>       (which found a juicy bug :-)
<cjwatson> (could be yeah, wasn't sure)
<jodh>     - Reviewing MPs.
<jodh>     - Testing, testing, testing...
<jodh> * other:
<jodh>   - Started reading up on click.
<jodh> * TODO:
<jodh>   - Fix intermittent re-exec crash
<jodh>   - Review lp:~xnox/upstart/shrink-notifications MP.
<jodh>   - Resolve test issues with lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1302117-remerged
<jodh>   - Raise MP for test code that forces both possible races.
<jodh>   - Release Upstart 1.13 and get it into the archive.
<jodh> â
<cjwatson> GEAR to you too
<jodh> :)
<mvo> jodh: anything specific about click you are interessted in?
 * mvo is just curious
<robru> * optimized nonfunctional stats service JS frontend code
<jodh> mvo: I haven't looked at it all all so thought it was time I did :)
<robru> * various and sundry landings
<robru> * poked at CI Train support code in queuebot
<robru> * committed but not released fix for bug in phablet-tools-citrain
<robru> * minor packaging work for lp:qtmir
<robru> done
<mvo> jodh: :)
<sil2100> doko: ? :)
<infinity> doko: *nudge*
<doko> - openjdk-8 packaging, first version sent to a ftp-master for review (licenses)
<doko> - openjdk-7 mentoring
<doko> - working openjdk-7 hotspot build for ppc64el
<doko> - one more round of gcc-4.8/gcc-4.9 updates, next week will be 4.9.1
<doko> - gcc-4.9 not yet the default
<doko> - and updated an aarch64 toolchain for trusty
<infinity> doko: How's the progress on the C++11 ABI bump stuff going so we can switch back some day?
<doko> (end)
<infinity> doko: Guessing that's in tvoss's court or similar?
<doko> infinity, enoclue, can't reach tvoss, and mir is ftbfs with 4.9, and mir team playing ping pong with the phone team
<infinity> \o/
<cjwatson> Pretty much I think, I need to poke him again about just build-deping on 4.8 and decoupling from the 4.9 transition
<cjwatson> I've cleared things with the mir team, aside from the ftbfs
<doko> ahh, nice
<infinity> cjwatson: That would be acceptable for now, yeah.
<sil2100> Ok, let me proceed maybe o/
<infinity> sil2100: Go for it. :)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, dealing with TRAINCON-0
<sil2100>   * Incident documented in TRAINCON-0 incidents
<sil2100> - Finishing work on the packaging rebase and sponsoring request for lucene++
<sil2100> - Unblocking Mir from -proposed
<cjwatson> I suggested it on Friday/Monday or so and he said maybe but wanted to try 4.9 first
<sil2100>   * Rebuilding glmark2
<sil2100>   * Pushing xorg-server rebuild
<sil2100> - Uploading libqofono, pushing through NEW
<cjwatson> So I think I should tell him to timeout :P
<sil2100> - Landing bootcamp for Michael
<sil2100> - Work on queuebot-related changes in CI Train
<sil2100> - Fixes for lucene++ in Debian queue
<sil2100> - Additions to the CI Train
<sil2100>   * Informing (bailing out) on missing -gles counterparts
<sil2100>   * Work on some of the feature requests, i.e. the 'Approved by' string
<sil2100>   * Futile attempts to make dch generate better changelogs in citrain ;)
<sil2100> - More tweaks and fixes to the old CI Train bot
<sil2100> - Fix buttons for CI Train spreadsheet (designed new, uglier ones \o/)
<sil2100> - Sadly not much time for +1 maint... but will definitely have now with mvo helping out wi
<sil2100> th landings!
<cjwatson> doko: FYI tvoss is on leave today but will be around on Friday
<sil2100> Uh oh, stray newline!
<sil2100> Anyway, (done)
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  - Working on releasing launchpad-buildd 124 (fixes for coexistence of dak and LP builders; Edubuntu livefs build fix); required changes to puppet first, and checking whether it requires corresponding changes to scalingstack image creation.
<cjwatson>  - Made ubuntu-archive-publishing get its list of series for maintenance-check using launchpadlib, allowing me to then remove lp-query-distro.py from Launchpad.
<cjwatson> click:
<cjwatson>  - Discussing SDK / click chroot qmake/cmake integration with Alex and (by proxy) Benjamin.  Spent a while fighting with qmake to try to get it to produce more sensible output.
<cjwatson>  - Extended click coverage tests to cover the Vala code too.
<cjwatson>  - Several reviews.
<cjwatson>  - Working on landing click 0.4.29.
<cjwatson> Maintenance:
<cjwatson>  - Fixed merges.ubuntu.com a few times (it tends to get upset when source packages don't unpack properly).
<cjwatson>  - A few automake1.10 cleanups.
<cjwatson>  - Backported a GRUB patch to precise to fix installation on non-BIOS disks (bug 1336946).
<ubottu> bug 1336946 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "grub-setup sometimes segfaults when installing to RAID" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336946
<cjwatson> G++ 4.9 discussions with Mir team and others.
<cjwatson> Some acceptance testing of the new CI engine.  Ran into bug 1337294.
<ubottu> bug 1337294 in Ubuntu CI Engine "Created ticket not being handled, never leaves New state" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337294
<cjwatson> Preparing to switch to a new ISP.  If I disappear for a while on Monday or so then that's why.
<cjwatson> ..
<xnox> cjwatson: qmake does not produce sensible output. By proxy alex was also discussing, i believe that same thing, with me as well.
<cjwatson> Yeah, I know :)
<xnox> =)
<xnox> ok.
<cjwatson> I think you can ignore it unless you're already working on it ...
<caribou> cjwatson: done ?
<cjwatson> caribou: yes
<infinity> cjwatson: NEW ISP!
<caribou> * Work on sosreport 3.1 backport on Precise (python3)
<caribou> * More work on Qemu/KVM 1.2 issues on Precise (custom backport)
<caribou> * Work on Qemu live migration issue
<caribou> * More work on backport of latest CVE to openssl 0.9.8 for precise (LP: #1331452)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1331452 in openssl098 (Ubuntu Utopic) "Please backport current CVEs for Precise LTS openssl098" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1331452
<cjwatson> infinity: well, won't help with the ADSL exchange distance directly, but the plan is to get bonded ADSL
<doko> ohh, me too in a few days ... cable modem ...
<caribou> (done)
<stgraber> LXC:
<stgraber>  - Preparing LXC 1.1.0~alpha1, currently stuck on a thread-related regression.
<stgraber>  - Preparing LXC 1.0.5, will likely release next week.
<stgraber>  - Got working arm64 and ppc64el support for the upstream CI and image build.
<stgraber>  - Various code reviews and bug triaging.
<stgraber>  - Pushed a patch so that all containers now set a minimal seccomp blacklist.
<stgraber>  - Still working on a new LXC command line tool, almost ready to be shared a
<stgraber>    bit more widely!
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Conferences:
<stgraber>  - Done some work preparing my internet simulation talk (LinuxCon NA)
<stgraber>  - The user namespace and GUI in container talk at the Security Summit was
<stgraber>    accepted, trying to get it scheduled at a time where I can be there.
<stgraber>  - Preparing a talk proposal for LinuxCon Europe.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Landing team:
<stgraber>  - Some landing work (till end of June).
<stgraber>  - Worked a bit with Åukasz on getting better state information published by
<stgraber>    the train for consumption by queuebot.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Queue bot:
<stgraber>  - Landing plugin: tracks the Google Spreadsheet (when Google doesn't give me a
<stgraber>    500 or a socket timeout...) and notify when something is ready to be
<stgraber>    processed by the team.
<stgraber>  - Silo plugin: tracks the silo states and notify when something changes. This
<stgraber>    one will be extended a bit to be less spammy, hopefully today.
<stgraber>  - Did a bunch more bugfixes to have queuebot be even more reliable.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Other:
<stgraber>  - SRU queue reviews.
<stgraber>  - Landing team work.
<stgraber>  - Alpha-1
<stgraber> (DONE)
<infinity> Last week:
<infinity>  - Vacation, bought a new (to me) car, accidentally worked a bit
<infinity> Next week:
<infinity>  - Kernel SRU wrangling
<infinity>  - Emergency *package redacted* security issues
<infinity>  - Reviewing MPs and mangling d-i for trusty point release
<infinity>  - glibc SRU for the point release timeframe
<infinity>  - powerpc-specific SRUs for the point release timeframe
<infinity> â»
<mvo> HWE:
<mvo> - Work on getting packages into precise-proposed
<mvo> - Write test instructions
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - Debug/fix Bug#753531
<mvo> - misc bug work
<mvo> citrain:
<mvo> - Bootcamp hangout with sil2100
<mvo> - Document what I learned https://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain/NewbieGuide
<mvo> - Daily landing team meeting
<mvo> - Landing team duty
<mvo> click:
<mvo> - Create systemd hook lp:click-systemd
<mvo> - Create first version of script that detects if libs that are
<mvo>   not part of the manifest framework are used
<mvo>   (lp:~mvo/click-reviewers-tools/check-libs)
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/fix-testcase-rename
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/lp1334611-getpwnam
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/test-build-core-apps
<mvo> - review/comment on gcov branch
<mvo> - work on lp:~mvo/click/hook-integration-test
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - Use/learn systemd on main machine
<mvo> - Debug/fix systemd lightdm startup failure
<mvo> - excercise the SDK
<mvo>   (lp:~mvo/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/webapp-template-with-doc)
<mvo> - fixes in autopkgtest pep8 failures
<mvo> - hr.canonical.com
<mvo> Next week:
<mvo> - now part of the landing team, this will eat a lot of my time
<mvo> (done)
<xnox> * upstart:
<xnox>   - in async code resolved the races:
<xnox>     - double freeing async io handlers
<xnox>     - race which may cause setup to be considered successful, when it wasn't
<xnox>     - fixed tests to excercise above
<xnox>     - raised merge proposal, awaiting review
<xnox>   - reviewed branches for jodh, plus bughunting/reviews of above
<xnox> jodh, what's outstanding for an upstart release? On my count we have:
<xnox>  - umask bug not fixed (https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/1302117)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1302117 in upstart "Session Init changes umask on re-exec" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<xnox>  - above pipe race-fix to merge
<xnox>  - re-exec tests and validation
<xnox>  - verify the boot failure of ubuntu touch (https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/1330692)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1330692 in upstart "Upstart nightly doesn't boot Ubuntu Touch" [Critical,New]
<xnox> anything else?
<xnox> launchpadlib-python3:
<xnox> - uncovered a pile of unicode/byte issues in laz.restfulclient thus
<xnox> porting is stalling for a little bit. Need to plan how to address
<xnox> those.
<xnox> AOB: in talks with many people to try something new and thus move from
<xnox> foundations team by second week of August.
<xnox> ..
<doko> ohh, lplib and python3 \o/
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
<jodh> xnox: re release => union of what I said + what you said :)
<xnox> jodh: ack.
<cjwatson> all I have is a reminder that if you're going to debconf then please send Steve talk suggestions, if you haven't already
<xnox> AOB - Happy Independence Day! =)
<cjwatson> IIRC the debconf deadline is the 7th
<xnox>  <imagine ascii art of american flag here (40 lines)>
<infinity> cjwatson: I think we need to plan a Foundations sprint somewhere with plentiful booze and conditions that make it nearly impossible to work.  Please advise.
<xnox> infinity: mountain biking in the alps? oh wait that was last debconf.
<cjwatson> infinity: isn't that basically Canada?
<cjwatson> at least the northern bits :)
<doko> xnox, nah, that would be mountain skiing
<infinity> Hrmph.
<xnox> infinity: there is always alaska =)
<infinity> xnox: AKA Fake Canada?
<xnox> infinity: ex-Russia?
<infinity> xnox: We'll just call all of Alaska, eastern Russia and northern Canada ex-Mongolia then, shall we?
<cjwatson> I hear Antarctica is nice this time of year
<xnox> infinity: *giggle* i like that.
<xnox> cjwatson: zero permanent residents, yet they get an internet domain....
<cjwatson> my MP said recently that he reckoned he represented more (yes, non-permanent) residents of Antarctica than anyone else in parliament
<cjwatson> due to the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge
<infinity> Trying to decide if your MP is funny or a twit.
<infinity> Also, why do you all hate penguins?
<infinity> (And I suspect we're out of AOB)
<cjwatson> Yup, I'd have ended the meeting except brief ADSL outage :)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<cjwatson> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<caribou> Is having to suffer through a zillion (systemd .vs. non-systemd) e-mail threads mandatory in order to become Debian Maintainer
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> ?
<caribou> cjwatson: thanks
<caribou> good; this won't make the meeting minutes ;-)
<cjwatson> caribou: depends if by suffer through you mean delete
<caribou> cjwatson: :)
<jodh> thanks!
<caribou> bye everyone
<dholbach> o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> CC come and say hi :)
<dholbach> hi YokoZar, pleia2, czajkowski, elfy, cprofitt, mhall119
<elfy> hi dholbach
<YokoZar> hi
<dholbach> anyone I forgot? :)
<czajkowski> fancy seeing you here :)
<czajkowski> narp
<mhall119> I'm here
<YokoZar> I'm fancy
<pleia2> o/
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<dholbach> #chairs YokoZar pleia2 czajkowski elfy cprofitt mhall119
<czajkowski> YokoZar: of course you are :)
<dholbach> I guess we're without a bot still
<mhall119> still?
<elfy> has anyone actually been and asked about that?
<elfy> it works fine in xubuntu-devel
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda says we're meeting with the Lubuntu and Edubuntu folks
<dholbach> hi AlanBell, if you are about, do you know who we could ask about the meeting bot?
<mhall119> dholbach: #ubuntu-irc I would imagine, right?.
<elfy> I asked
<elfy> so did dholbach eventually :)
<pleia2> the bot is still in #ubuntu-meeting-2 if we want to move over there
<elfy> is there anyone here from Lubuntu and Edubuntu ?
<czajkowski> stgraber: ping
<elfy> pleia2: I guess we could join there and shovel people across
<dholbach> or someone else from https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council/+members
<stgraber> I'm around, sort of
 * elfy makes note to remind people sooner 
<elfy> hi stgraber
<mhall119> doesn't matter to me, as long as we get started
<mhall119> shall we just go without again today then and start with Edubuntu in here?
<pleia2> yep
<elfy> works for me
<mhall119> #topic Edubuntu catchup
<dholbach> stgraber, how are things with Edubuntu? how did the LTS release go?
<mhall119> hi stgraber
<mhall119> hello?
<elfy> that'll be the sort of I assume :)
<stgraber> the LTS went well
<stgraber> the rest is going pretty much as usual
<dholbach> and it's still mostly the edubuntu council working on things? do you have a lot of plans for 14.10?
<stgraber> no plans for 14.10, we are an LTS-only flavour now
<mhall119> stgraber: as a flavor, how do you feel about the work and decisions that have been going into Ubuntu itself? Have any of those been detrimental to Edubuntu?
<elfy> dholbach: sorry - meant to mention that
<dholbach> stgraber, ahh ok - so the plans you are working on now are for 16.04 basically?
<stgraber> and yeah, Edubuntu is mostly just Jonathan and I who are now officially co-leading the project (we still have the council for historical reasons but are the only two members)
<stgraber> right, we're mostly planning for 16.04, figuring out what to do with our desktop, ltsp and the server variant of Edubuntu
<mhall119> stgraber: are you currently using Unity or Xfce for the default shell?
<stgraber> mhall119: so far we've managed to revert any of those decisions when needed (pulling out bits we didn't like such as the remote scopes, ubuntuone integration, amazon launcher, ...) and support the old milestone model
 * elfy thought it was just Studio who use xfce/xubuntu 
<stgraber> currently it's Unity + gnome-flashback, both are getting installed by default and you can choose which is the default from the installer
<dholbach> nice
<mhall119> stgraber: do you know yet how the move to Unity8 and Mir will affect LTSP?
<stgraber> mhall119: it probably won't as we'd simply not support unit8 there
<stgraber> *unity
<elfy> stgraber: did you see my mail re manual testing?
<stgraber> elfy: I did
<mhall119> sorry if I'm getting too technical for a CC catchup, I'm just trying to anticipate future conflicts
<dholbach> is the feedback you're getting still mostly from teachers? I think I recall you or somebody else mentioning that the community of edubuntu was mostly made up of teachers
<stgraber> right, Edubuntu mostly targets schools and parents setting it up at home, so most of the larger scale feedback we get is from school districts
<YokoZar> I'm curious about the "big deployment" feedback (from both school districts for edubuntu and larger corporate customers from Ubuntu) -- it's a side of the community we rarely hear from specifically
<dholbach> cool - are any of them active in the community as well? like helping out on the mailing list and elsewhere? or doing some testing, etc.?
<stgraber> it's hard to get details and very large deployments usually make their own derivative of Edubuntu too so it's pretty hard to track them and since we don't really have any commercial interest ourselves, we don't really care either :)
<elfy> dholbach: I've just started a conversation re testing after chatting to Nick
<stgraber> some pop up on IRC every so often, some others e-mail us on the list or directly though 99% of them are non-technical so it's really just feedback and we've got to figure out what to do with that afterwards
<mhall119> stgraber: is there any outreach to get those deployment stories and post them on the edubuntu website?
<stgraber> elfy: basically, since our next milestone is 16.04 alpha-1, I wouldn't expect much to happen on our side in the next year or so :)
<elfy> stgraber: was more or less what I was thinking :)
<stgraber> mhall119: we have a bunch at http://www.edubuntu.org/deployments
<stgraber> mhall119: however we get a ton of spam too so we're usually very behind on processing those :)
<mhall119> stgraber: are those syndicated to planet.u.c?
<elfy> stgraber: I might point people in your direction duting the QA hackfest
<stgraber> mhall119: no, they're not, we tend to accept them in batches so that'd flood planet at times and also there's not necessarily enough data to make that interesting
<stgraber> mhall119: I think Jonathan wanted to do proper interviews with some of them, but I guess ENOTIME
<mhall119> yeah, that's the always-present problem isn't it
<dholbach> judging from the feedback you're getting, is everyone mostly happy?
<elfy> personally I'd love to see more Edubuntu on the planet
<czajkowski> +1 indeed
<czajkowski> it would be nice to see
<dholbach> I agree :)
<dholbach> mhall119, we could invite the Edubuntu folks to a community team q&a :)
<mhall119> dholbach: I was thinking that too :)
<dholbach> and show off some of the good work they've been doing and showcase some of the work in the edubuntu community
<stgraber> I think we're mostly happy, though also pretty busy with other things
<dholbach> do you think there's anything the CC could help with?
<mhall119> stgraber: do you do any events to try and get more contributors, hackdays or global jam activities or anything?
<stgraber> honestly, when we have cool stuff to show, we will, at the moment, spending time on communication would just be draining the little time we can each spend on the project as it is
<stgraber> same thing with getting more contributors, we'd rather focus our limited resources on getting stuff done than investing that time in communication, activities or similar stuff which in the past have had a very very little return over investiment
<mhall119> stgraber: ok
<mhall119> stgraber: when you are ready to do that though, please let the CC and Community team know what we can do to help
<stgraber> sure
<elfy> stgraber: anything else that we could do for you?
<stgraber> can't think of anything, no
<elfy> ok - I think we should let you get on with your day then :)
<stgraber> thanks
<elfy> any other questions from us?
<mhall119> not from me
<pleia2> nope, thanks stgraber
<mhall119> thanks stgraber, keep up the great work
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<elfy> stgraber: I'll try and catch up with you re that mail and testing
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> so - I suspect the next question is - is there anyone here from Lubuntu?
<pleia2> looks like not
<mhall119> shall we wrap it up then?
<dholbach> yeah
<elfy> I'm good
<pleia2> any other business?
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day :)
<pleia2> thanks all
<elfy> pleia2: I've sent next time reminders 5 minutes ago
<mhall119> #endmeeting
<mhall119> thanks everyon!
<pleia2> elfy: saw, thanks :)
<elfy> and am just saving the wiki :)
<pleia2> elfy: care to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/CC & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports too? (they are on my list to do, I usually do them when I do other wiki tasks)
<elfy> bah
<elfy> probably after some food :)
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> I'll handle them later if needed
<YokoZar> Thanks folks
<elfy> pleia2: are those things just basic links?
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-06-29
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 29 16:40:41 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Thanks to Thomas Ward (teward) for help on security updates (14.04 and 14.10) for the community supported putty (LP: #1467631) last week. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1467631 in putty (Ubuntu Precise) "CVE-2015-2157 - SSH2 Private Keys Not Properly Wiped from Memory" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1467631
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm about to publish an embargoed issue in a half hour
<mdeslaur> and I'm currently working on php5 updates
<mdeslaur> I have a ca-certificates issue to look into
<mdeslaur> and this week is a short week because of a national holiday on wednesday
<mdeslaur> that's it for me this week
<mdeslaur> sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I'm poking again at gcc-pie
<sbeattie> and I've got more apparmor patches to review.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much my week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: all yours
<tyhicks> I've got an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> oh, I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> I have some work tracking improvements to do for better integration with the ubuntu-cve-tracker
<tyhicks> and I hope to get back to AppArmor userspace support for kernel keyring mediation
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> oh man you guys went quickly :)
<sarnold> I'm on CVE triage this week
<sarnold> I'm also working on the ppc64-diag follow-on MIR audits
<sarnold> I might also handle a few smaller apparmor patch reviews
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got Mozilla updates this week. I also need to get Oxide 1.7.9 published, and I'm expecting Chromium too
<chrisccoulson> I've got to do some work to make the Firefox packaging buildable again as well
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through Oxide bugs. I'm currently working on bug 1410753, which I have an initial working implementation of (https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/new-user-agent-override-api)
<ubottu> bug 1410753 in Oxide "Implement a new API for overriding the user agent string" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410753
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/krb5-appl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/flightgear.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-rack1.4.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mosh.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/linkchecker.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<teward> o/ tyhicks: Thanks for the acknowledgement of my putty patches!  Glad to help out, especially since I know quite a few people who use PuTTY on Ubuntu, and this keeps them secure too!  :)
<teward> (that's all :) )
<tyhicks> thanks again, teward :)
<teward> you're welcome!
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 16:52:49 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-29-16.40.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
 * M-nealmcb \o
 * M-nealmcb  is lurking via the Matrix protocol from matrix.org
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<sbeattie> thanks tyhicks
<teward> ... that on-join messages read as spam  o.o
<teward> sorry, offtopic :)
<sarnold> M-nealmcb: heh, your client sent this on join, it'd probably be worth disabling it: Mon 29 09:52:17  * M-nealmcb  is lurking via the Matrix protocol from matrix.org
<nealmcb> sarnold: here I am via irssi.  I sent that on purpose
<nealmcb> Wanted to see how I would show up that way - i.e.   M-nealmcb [nealmcb__m@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wmmrihwbfxszzzco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
<teward> nealmcb: use #test next time
<teward> on-join msgs tend to set of alerts on some people's clients, like mine, configured to alert me to misbehavers in some channels
<teward> (onjoin floods for instance)
<teward> (for testing things, #test or a test channel of your own design tends to help)
<teward> just a suggestion :)
<nealmcb> teward: thanks - didn't mean to interrupt, and #test is a good idea.  But just to be clear, my on-join message was just the normal one with that interesting gateway id.  Then I sent my wave and "lurking" message just to say hi to my old buddies on Ubuntu....
<teward> nealmcb: ah, OK, it showed up in the same two seconds which is why my scripts alerted me xD
<teward> I should probably shut that off for here though xD
<nealmcb> aha - good to know ;)  The matrix gateway does joins immediately prior to the first message, just to avoid flooding in other ways at other times.  we'll see how matrix.org goes - quite a challenge to roll out a new messaging protocol, especially without pissing off irc users ;)
<teward> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-06-30
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> No actions from previous meeting
<rbasak> #topic Wily Development
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 30 16:00:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> Any general Wily Development issues to discuss before we go to the release bugs?
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> I see six bugs. Anything in here that needs discussing?
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<rbasak> caribou: over to you
<caribou> rbasak: nothing on my side for this week
<rbasak> OK, thanks.
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<rbasak> matsubara: anything from you?
<matsubara> hey there, nothing new to report from the smoke test front. I'll be doing verification for bug 1443735 SRU later on today.
<ubottu> bug 1443735 in grub2 (Ubuntu Vivid) "recordfail false positive causes headless servers to hang on boot by default" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443735
<matsubara> rbasak, that's all from me.
<rbasak> Great, thanks!
<matsubara> np
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> No news here is there are no questions / requests...
<smb>  s/is/if/
<rbasak> Does anyone have anything for the kernel team?
<rbasak> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rharper> \o
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Nothing? :)
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rharper> rbasak: at least for the upcoming papers, the ODS for Tokyo submission is open
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> Does anyone have anything planned for ODS?
<rharper> I'm sure hallyn will do something with lxd =)
<rbasak> I look forward to hearing about it :)
<hallyn> uh, yeah
<hallyn> no doubt
<hallyn> actually i'd assume zul will
<rbasak> Anything else for upcoming CFPs, events, or open discussion?
<zul> hallyn: erm...yeah
<zul> who wouldnt want to go to the future...i mean tokyo
<rharper> zul: +1
<hallyn> +1
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> The next meeting will be at Tue Jul 7 16:00:00 UTC 2015
<rbasak> matsubara will chair
<rbasak> Thanks all
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 30 16:09:03 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-30-16.00.moin.txt
<matsubara> thanks rbasak
<rharper> rbasak: thanks!
<kickinz1> thanks rbasak
<caribou> thanks rb
<arosales> coreycb: jamespage: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/relation-stubs?authuser=0
 * arosales forgot to put in the link
<coreycb> arosales, was that intended for me?
<arosales> sorry meant coryfu
<coreycb> arosales, np, I figured
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 30 17:00:01 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<cking> o/
<smb> \Ã¶
<sforshee> o/
<kamal> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 13-Jun through 04-Jul
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          12-Jun   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 14-Jun - 20-Jun   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 21-Jun - 04-Jul   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 30 17:03:01 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-30-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-02
<dholbach> good morning
<Kilos> morning dholbach
<barry> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> o/
<pitti> o/
 * slangasek waves
<robru> ahoihoi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  2 15:02:39 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti)
<pitti> *drum roll*
<slangasek> robru slangasek barry cyphermox caribou pitti stgraber sil2100 infinity doko bdmurray
<robru> I win!!
<robru> * CI Train:
<robru>  - Enable generating RTM cowbuilder images dynamically
<robru>  - Implement Silo PPA discovery to stop hard-coding silo counts.
<robru>  - Safety check against certain types of misconfiguring train silos
<robru>  - Support pushing silo statuses into Bileto.
<robru> * CI Train Charm:
<robru>  - Do ssh-keyscan for ppa.launchpad.net, fixing dput over sftp
<bdmurray> No, way I do
<robru>  - Save Bileto API token to a place accessible by train code
<robru> * Bileto:
<robru>  - Streamline a lot of navigation between request list & dashboard
<robru>  - Add db field for silonames
<robru>  - Streamline silo search implementation
<robru> * Bileto Charm:
<robru>  - Implement db-admin relation to ensure tables have correct permissions
 * pitti hands the washing machine over to robru
 * sil2100 hands a check for winning the lottery to robru 
<robru> (did everybody see up to 'Done.'?)
<slangasek> robru: the last line was 'Implement db-admin relation [...]'
<sil2100> Check for a washing-machine
<robru> blah!
<robru> one sec
<cyphermox> robru: you're not done
<doko> let me go ahead, have to leave early today ...
<slangasek> doko: ok, you can go right after robru
<robru>  - Automatically restart gunicorn when code is updated
<robru>  - Send API token to train
<robru> * Mojo Spec:
<robru>  - Automate a number of different steps that used to require cowboy work.
<robru> Done.
<doko> - final GCC 4.8.5 and 4.9.3 release packages, gcc-4.9-cross update
<doko> - prepared backports of GCC 4.8.5 and 4.9.3 for trusty
<doko> - updated proposed python2.7 packages for trusty
<doko> - requested test rebuild archives for trusty and trusty-updates
<doko> - updated gcc-snapshot
<doko> - prepared and evaluated a GCC 5 test rebuild for unstable
<doko> - the libstdc++6 transition will trigger up to 400 follow-up transitions, not sure if the ci-train should
<doko>  be used
<doko> - (last Friday was vacation day)
<doko> (done)
<slangasek>  * hiring: starting to get a number of resumes in, if you know someone who'd be good on the team send them my way
<slangasek>  * ppc64el bug triaging for 14.04.3
<slangasek>  * moving the shim SRU along
<slangasek>  * still need to look into bug #1464442
<ubottu> bug 1464442 in upstart (Ubuntu) "installing or upgrading libc6 in Trusty removes all content from /tmp directory" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464442
<slangasek>  * off tomorrow for US Independence Day
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> py3.5 rebuild test - about 70% pass rate.  much debugging, upstream bug reporting, some fixing.  wiki page created documenting issues.  biggest headaches: dependency loops :(
<barry> git-dpm conversion work for dpmt.  rsn!
<barry> --done--
<cyphermox>  * update sg3-utils to 1.4.0 from collab-maint
<cyphermox>  * added udeb to sg3-utils
<cyphermox>  * testing multipath-tools
<cyphermox>  * investigating partman* changes for the new m-t
<cyphermox>  * fixes for NM routing bug 1436330 -> silo 27
<cyphermox>  * Wednesday: national holiday
<ubottu> bug 1436330 in network-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "Network Manager doesn't set metric for local networks any more, causing connection issues" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436330
<cyphermox>  * reviewed ubiquity merges
<cyphermox>  * opal-prd packaging
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> caribou: ?
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - Investigate Apport load spike on ceph-osd units
<caribou>    * suggest blacklist after talking to pitti
<caribou>  - Investigate HDD errors
<caribou>  - Complete kdump-tools SRU
<caribou> Review Openstack deployment document
<caribou> Write Maas / Curtin customization blog post
<caribou> (done)
<pitti> autopkgtest: various bug fixes (1469647, 1466486, nova robustifications)
<pitti> autopkgtest cloud:
<pitti>  - various debci improvements to look Ubuntu-ish and get along with swift artifacts; look at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com
<pitti>  - create document about plan and needed resources, to make ScalingStack live up to its name (blocker for production)
<pitti>  - meeting with ev/slangasek and another one with CI for handover and status
<pitti>  - read/understand current britney-autopkgtest integration code (OMG!)
<pitti>  - britney: add much simpler AMQP/cloud based autopkgtest triggering, to get rid of lp:auto-package-testing and much indirection+duplication (in progress, expect MP RSN)
<pitti> systemd: misc bug fixes (1468102, 1470060), fix autopkgtests to work in cloud VMs (lightdm startup failure)
<pitti> other:
<pitti>  - patch pilot shift
<pitti>  - udisks: upstream patch review/bug fixing, new upstream release 2.1.6, package that
<pitti>  - review various apport branches from bdmurray
<pitti>  - umockdev: fix tests to work with -proposed python-gi
<pitti> plan:
<pitti>  - finish and land britney AMQP support
<pitti>  - enable it with the limited ScalingStack power that we have, by blacklisting some packages (sorry gcc!)
<pitti>  - start looking into the really nasty bug 1453738
<ubottu> bug 1453738 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu Wily) "installer in LVM mode sets up broken encrypted swap, using duplicate unencrypted swap" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453738
<pitti> puÆ ÇÉ¥Ê
<stgraber>  - At the hospital on Thursday, out on Friday.
<stgraber>  - LXC/LXD
<stgraber>    - Pushed LXD 0.12 to the archive and PPA.
<stgraber>    - Reworked our init scripts to set higher ulimits and use socket activation.
<stgraber>    - Code reviews and dispatching work for upcoming milestones.
<stgraber>    - Preparing LXC 1.1.3, cherry-picked about 80 bugfixes into the branch.
<stgraber>    - Various meetings.
<slangasek> pitti: is there a way in debci to get a list of most recent test runs?  I actually like that aspect of the jenkins view
<stgraber> (done)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - CI Train modifications:
<sil2100>   * Look into RTM dual-landing enablement
<sil2100>   * Prepare branch for component name listing during packaging changes
<sil2100> - Add and remove calendar-app from the images
<sil2100> - Issue Tracker modifications:
<sil2100>   * Make the tracker only close stable bugs when the PT bug is closed
<sil2100>   * Make the scripts PEP8 compatible
<sil2100> - Help in CI Train usage, helping upstreams with strange problems
<sil2100> - Commitlog generation scripts:
<sil2100>   * More code refactoring
<sil2100>   * Fighting the canonistack instance, enabling syncs to lillypilly
<sil2100> - Moving the youtube scope from the rootfs to the custom tarball
<sil2100> - Appmenu-Qt5:
<sil2100>   * Reviewing patches
<sil2100>   * Looking into the bug with disappearing menus on window->hide() and show()
<sil2100> - Started planning a release tasks document
<sil2100> - One day feeling bad, working at half capacity
<sil2100> (done)
<pitti> slangasek: not right now, the NEWs section just shows changes; if we want/need that, we can certainly add that, though
<slangasek> infinity is off today; doko has already gone
<pitti> slangasek: you see all teh runs on a per-package view of course
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> updated daisy retracer sources.list for 15.04 armhf to include debug line for PPA
<bdmurray> updated / tested daisy version on staging / production Error Tracker
<robru> doko: yeah I'm gonna go ahead and say the train isn't the right tool to do 400 rebuilds
<bdmurray> opened crash reports for successfully retraced armhf crashes
<bdmurray> worked on adding support to apport for retracing packages from PPAs
<bdmurray> submitted mp re apport for retracing packages from PPAs
<bdmurray> irc discussion with pitti regarding -dbg vs -dbgsym and transitional packages LP: #1469635
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1469635 in apport (Ubuntu) "Don't pick transitional -dbg over -dbgsym" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1469635
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1470572 regarding native-origins issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1470572 in apport (Ubuntu) "native-origins.d information causes apport to strip origin information from Package" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1470572
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal for fix to apport bug LP: #1470572
<bdmurray> fixed a phased-updater traceback
<bdmurray> SRU queue reviews
<bdmurray> invited ubuntu-sru to join sru-verification (so they can unsubscribe the team)
<bdmurray> a little patch sponsoring
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> cool
<slangasek> any questions re: status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
 * barry is off tomorrow for usa holiday
<slangasek> anything else today?
<pitti> o/
<caribou> bdmurray: does that mean that sru-verification should be subscribed instead of ubuntu-sru ?
<slangasek> pitti: is that a hand raised for "other business"?
<pitti> who feels able to review britney MPs?
<pitti> slangasek: yes
<caribou> bdmurray: for SRU
<slangasek> pitti: myself or infinity, for sure
<bdmurray> caribou: no, nothing changes
<caribou> bdmurray: k
<cyphermox> pitti: I've looked a bit at britney before, I may help if nobody else is available
<pitti> slangasek: ack, thanks; I want to stop bothering cjwatson about it
<pitti> cyphermox: cheers
<slangasek> pitti: right, cjwatson has succeeded in getting himself removed from ~ubuntu-release so that your bothering will be ineffective ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  2 15:17:56 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-02-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> ok, thanks all!
<barry> thanks!
<cyphermox> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thanks all, and you USians enjoy independency day!
<sil2100> o/
<stgraber> thanks!
<dholbach> hello hello
<dholbach> who's here from the Ubuntu GNOME folks?
<mhall119> o/
<dholbach> hum... I think what happened is that we pinged, asked for a better meeting time and got no reply back
<dholbach> mhall119, ^ is that what you recall/can see have happened too?
<mhall119> we asked for a better meeting time?
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> hey czajkowski
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  2 17:02:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> #chair czajkowski mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach mhall119
<mhall119> satyajit said he might make it
<mhall119> then you asked about a differnet time, yes
<dholbach> I think Tim and Ali (both admins of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome) are in .au, so not likely to turn up now
<dholbach> I'll ping them on the mail again
<dholbach> shall we move on?
<mhall119> sure
<dholbach> do we have people from the translations community here?
<dholbach> hohum
<dholbach> looks like everyone is out in the sun somewhere :)
<mhall119> so I have one thing to bring up on the topic of translations
<dholbach> I couldn't find any of the folks from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-translations-coordinators/+members#active in here
<dholbach> mhall119, sure... if we can discuss it with the people present here?
<mhall119> more of just an update
<dholbach> shoot
<mhall119> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-kab had somebody want to join and get that team more active, but the previous owner wasn't responding
<mhall119> ultimately an RT was filed and ownership transfered to the new contributor
<mhall119> but we might want to do a global check-in with translator team leads to make sure they're still active
<mhall119> because I suspect there are others in the same situation
<dholbach> ok, that makes sense
<mhall119> is this something we can get the translators team to take the lead on? and if so, who is a good point of contact on there to coordinate with?
<dholbach> maybe just the ubuntu translations coordinators team list?
<mhall119> where is that?
<dholbach> ubuntu-translations-coordinators@lists.launchpad.net
<dholbach> I can send a mail and include our IRC discussion
<dholbach> as a starting point for a discussion
<mhall119> +1, thanks dholbach
<dholbach> cool, I'll do that then
<mhall119> that's all I had, anybody else?
<dholbach> I'm trying to figure out which times to offer to them - or shall we repurpose one of our private meetings?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mhall119> dholbach: offer whom?
<dholbach> the translations community
<dholbach> so we can have another catchup
<dholbach> and not postpone it until next cycle
<mhall119> ah, ok, yeah we can re-purpose a hangout day
<dholbach> ok cool
<mhall119> of do the 5th thursday of this month
<dholbach> mail sent
<dholbach> does anyone have anything else to discuss?
<dholbach> czajkowski, ^
<czajkowski> no
<dholbach> in that case: let's wrap up
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone - see you tomorrow!<
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  2 17:19:10 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-02-17.02.moin.txt
<ahoneybun> No meeting?
<Kilos> later ahoneybun
<Kilos> 20 and 22 utc
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, m-20 :)
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, you're not around?
<niedbalski> elacheche_anis, here
<elacheche_anis> Great :) :)
<elacheche_anis> Just checking that everybody here before the meeting :)
<elacheche_anis> it's almost time, PabloRubianes, Kilos toddy you're here?
<Kilos> o/
<toddy> elacheche_anis: yes o/
<PabloRubianes> yes
<elacheche_anis> Shall we start the meeting as niedbalski is here too :)
<Kilos> yes
<Kilos> niedbalski  are you ready?
<niedbalski> Kilos, ofc :), here
<elacheche_anis> #startmeeting 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  2 20:01:49 2015 UTC.  The chair is elacheche_anis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<elacheche_anis> Hello and welcome to the Membership Board meeting!
<elacheche_anis> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards. We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting.
<elacheche_anis> If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<elacheche_anis> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<elacheche_anis> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<elacheche_anis> #topic niedbalski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: niedbalski
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<elacheche_anis> #voters Kilos elacheche_anis toddy ahoneybun wxl cwayne popey hggdh
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: cwayne
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos ahoneybun cwayne elacheche_anis hggdh popey toddy wxl
<elacheche_anis> #voters PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos PabloRubianes ahoneybun cwayne elacheche_anis hggdh popey toddy wxl
<elacheche_anis> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<Kilos> hi ahoneybun
<niedbalski> Hello Jorge Niedbalski, I am a developer/sysadmin working daily with Linux since 2001 (mostly Debian). I use Ubuntu as my development and production OS since the precise release (12.04).
<niedbalski> My wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/niedbalski, My launchpad page is: http://launchpad.net/~niedbalski
<elacheche_anis> Welcome niedbalski :)
<elacheche_anis> Any questions for niedbalski ?
<toddy> niedbalski: Do you make support or something for Ubuntu in your free time or is it all in your working hours by Canonical?
<Kilos> niedbalski  why did you take so long to apply for membership?
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, as I can see you're a full time employee @canonical.. Why you're interested to be a Ubuntu Member :)
<niedbalski> toddy, I do bug reporting for personal (desktop, server) stuff, such as lightdm or any issue that I found while using the operating system as an user.
<niedbalski> Kilos, mostly by ignorance :)
<Kilos> np
<wxl> niedbalski: do you package for debian?
<Kilos> glad you came here now
<wxl> niedbalski: are you involved in your loco at all? (not sure where you live)
<niedbalski> Kilos, I was not fully aware on this process, or how much time this could take.
<toddy> niedbalski: Do you in a LoCo?
<niedbalski> wxl, toddy The Loco in Santiago, Chile ( the place I live ) is actually not fully active, but I have participated on a couple of local free/open OS installation sessions supported by the LoCO.
<wxl> niedbalski: your participation can always make it more active ;) good to hear!
<PabloRubianes> niedbalski: there's any plan to reboot the loco?
<PabloRubianes> the loco council could help
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, as I can see you're a full time employee @canonical.. Why you're interested to be a Ubuntu Member :)
<niedbalski> elacheche_anis, it is a matter of personal interest, there is no a special relation between my job and this application.
<elacheche_anis> Great :)
<Kilos> cool, nice to see
<toddy> niedbalski: are there many installation sessions? How often are there the sessions? On every release?
<niedbalski> toddy, there is a broader event for open-source installation , not only Ubuntu (however it is the most used one) (www.flisol.info) it is a yearly event.
<elacheche_anis> I forget to ask if there is any supporters here tonight :)
<elacheche_anis> So.. Any more questions? or shall we vote?
<wxl> i'm ready to vote
 * Kilos ready
<elacheche_anis> #vote for niedbalski Membership!
<meetingology> Please vote on: for niedbalski Membership!
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<PabloRubianes> lets vore
<PabloRubianes> vote
<wxl> +1 glad to see employees integrate into the community!
<meetingology> +1 glad to see employees integrate into the community! received from wxl
<elacheche_anis> +1 very happy that you're interested about the community not only your job @canonical, that'll help the community grow..
<meetingology> +1 very happy that you're interested about the community not only your job @canonical, that'll help the community grow.. received from elacheche_anis
<Kilos> +1 Thank you for joining us and feel welcome amongst us
<meetingology> +1 Thank you for joining us and feel welcome amongst us received from Kilos
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<toddy> +1 It would be very nice if you make the loco chile come back to life. PabloRubianes can help you with that.
<meetingology> +1 It would be very nice if you make the loco chile come back to life. PabloRubianes can help you with that. received from toddy
<elacheche_anis> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for niedbalski Membership!
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<toddy> \o/
<wxl> niedbalski: PabloRubianes and i are both on the loco council, if you'd like some assistance getting the chile loco back up to speed
<elacheche_anis> I should mention that belkinsa voted +1 for you too niedbalski
<Kilos> congrats niedbalski  and welome
<toddy> congrats niedbalski
<elacheche_anis> Congrats and welcome aboard :)
<wxl> congrats niedbalski !
<elacheche_anis> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  2 20:17:38 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-02-20.01.moin.txt
<PabloRubianes> congrats niedbalski
<niedbalski> wxl, Kilos toddy elacheche_anis thanks guys!, Much appreciated.
<Kilos> nice to have you join us
<wxl> niedbalski: now go get all your friends to become such wonderful contributors so that they can be members, too ;)
<Kilos> niedbalski  encourage others as well if you can
<Kilos> hehe
<niedbalski> Kilos, wxl elacheche_anis if you guys can provide me guidance for resurrect the Chilean Loco, I can help with that too.
<niedbalski> I don't know too much about the Ubuntu Councils/Governance in general, So I guess that's my start point.
<Kilos> niedbalski  i am trying to do that at the moment with all the locos in africa
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, wxl & PabloRubianes are from the LoCo council too, they can help with that.. I guess
<wxl> niedbalski: the first step would be trying to contact the current leadership of the loco
<wxl> niedbalski: you can find admins/contacts here http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-cl/
<niedbalski> wxl, will do, thanks.
<wxl> niedbalski: you can contact me directly if you need help on the next step, or better yet, contact the whole loco council
<niedbalski> wxl, I'll try to approach the local admin to see the current status. Seems pretty inactive.
<Kilos> niedbalski  all you need is to find one the is happy to see there will be some action again , then things grow from there
<Kilos> s/the/that
<Kilos> some of the old member just need some encouragement
<wxl> niedbalski: i'm sure some of them at the very least are still available to talk to. maybe they're done with the loco, but we could always get them to transfer ownership to you!
<niedbalski> wxl, I'll approach the current Loco via the ML to see if there is interest to keep the Loco active/maintained, if not, I'll come back to you.
<niedbalski> wxl, thanks!
<wxl> great thx niedbalski !
<niedbalski> wxl, Kilos elacheche_anis Do you guys know if I need to perform any other step?
<Kilos> you are now an official ubuntu member, you can ask for a  cloak and with some work setup your mail as @ubuntu.com as well
<niedbalski> Kilos, ok, thanks.
<Kilos> kep up the good work
<Kilos> keep
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, you're right dude.. I should are you to the LP group..
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, the @ubuntu.com alias should be up in less than 2 days.. â Think that the canonical's sysadmin team are setting a 2 days cron..
<elacheche_anis> niedbalski, you can check the benefits list https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#Benefits_of_Membership
<niedbalski> elacheche_anis, much appreciated guys!
<elacheche_anis> You are welcome :)
<Kilos> welcome to the ubuntu family
<ejat> welcome on board
<elacheche_anis> george_e, you're around
 * george_e waves
<george_e> I'm here.
<Kilos> ahoneybun  you here?
<Kilos> hi george_e
<george_e> Kilos: o/
<elacheche_anis> Welcome george_e, we start in minutes :)
<sethj> I'm not sure how much time I have so I just want to show my support for george_e now, in case I have to leave.
<Kilos> ty sethj
<elacheche_anis> sethj, well noted :)
<sethj> thanks guys
<sethj> For all you do :)
<Kilos> its a pleasure
<elacheche_anis> george_e, just minutes so the board show up in here :)
<toddy> hi george_e and also hi sethj :)
<george_e> No problem.
<elacheche_anis> So.. let's start
<elacheche_anis> #startmeeting 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  2 22:03:31 2015 UTC.  The chair is elacheche_anis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<elacheche_anis> Hello and welcome to the Membership Board meeting!
<elacheche_anis> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards. We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting.
<elacheche_anis> If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<elacheche_anis> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<elacheche_anis> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<elacheche_anis> #topic george_e
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: george_e
<elacheche_anis> Welcome george_e, please take your time reading all what I just paste.. Then please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<george_e> Okay.
<george_e> Hi, I'm Nathan Osman (george_e or "George Edison" from earlier days) and I have been using Ubuntu for roughly 5-6 years.
<george_e> My wiki page is located here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NathanOsman and my Launchpad page is located here: https://launchpad.net/~george-edison55
<george_e> I really enjoy developing desktop and web applications for the Ubuntu platform.
<george_e> I've built a couple of applications for Ubuntu Touch and written a few Juju charms.
<elacheche_anis> #voters Kilos elacheche_anis toddy iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos elacheche_anis iulian toddy
<george_e> I've also been involved with Ask Ubuntu from its inception, serving as moderator pro tempore during the early months.
<toddy> george_e: I test the wake on lane app. It works fine for me. :)
<elacheche_anis> Great :)
<george_e> toddy: thanks! Always glad to hear that it works well.
<elacheche_anis> Just for the records.. sethj is was here to support george_e!
<sethj> Yup!
<elacheche_anis> Any questions for george_e from the board members?
<Kilos> ok george_e  why did you take so long to apply for membership
<george_e> Kilos: mostly scheduling - it was difficult to either make it to one of the meetings or determine if I would be available at the time.
<Kilos> wow you are a busdy guy hey
<toddy> george_e: do you make a new app for mobil at the moment? which one?
<george_e> toddy: I'm currently working on a download manager.
<wxl> i'm alive now. sorry i missed everything.
<Kilos> wb wxl
<elacheche_anis> #voters wxl
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos elacheche_anis iulian toddy wxl
<wxl> whoa asker of the first question
 * wxl bows before the splendor that is george_e 
<elacheche_anis> george_e, a DM for Ubuntu Touch?
<wxl> OOOH WOL touch app
<george_e> elacheche_anis: yes.
<Kilos> elacheche_anis  add hggdh
<elacheche_anis> #voters hggdh
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos elacheche_anis hggdh iulian toddy wxl
<toddy> and the first question on askubuntu: http://askubuntu.com/questions/1/how-to-get-the-your-battery-is-broken-message-to-go-away :)
<wxl> can i interject one question?
<elacheche_anis> Great george_e I know that a DM is a must for a mobile OS..
<elacheche_anis> wxl, go ahead
<wxl> george_e: loco involvement?
<george_e> wxl: Unfortunately, due to travel difficulties, that hasn't really been a realistic possibility. Hopefully that situation may improve in the future.
<george_e> I'm close (an hour's travel time) from Vancouver.
<wxl> ahhhh ko
<wxl> george_e: you could encourage them to come out to some event at your place ;)
<wxl> that being said, i'm ready
<george_e> I'm hoping to make it out to one of the events soon.
<iulian> Hah. "Beer is on me! Come over." I'm pretty sure they'll come over.
<Kilos> hehe
<Kilos> we can vote i think
<Kilos> difficult one this
<elacheche_anis> Do you have more questions?
<elacheche_anis> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<iulian> Not from me.
<toddy> I'm ready to vote
<elacheche_anis> #vote for george_e Membership!
<meetingology> Please vote on: for george_e Membership!
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<toddy> +1 I like your good work on Ubuntu Touch. I hope you will make many apps.
<meetingology> +1 I like your good work on Ubuntu Touch. I hope you will make many apps. received from toddy
<Kilos> +1 Keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work received from Kilos
<iulian> +1 - keep up the good work!
<hggdh> +1 thanks for the help :-)
<meetingology> +1 - keep up the good work! received from iulian
<meetingology> +1 thanks for the help :-) received from hggdh
<wxl> +1 thanks for making ubuntu better! keep it up!!
<meetingology> +1 thanks for making ubuntu better! keep it up!! received from wxl
<elacheche_anis> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elacheche_anis
<elacheche_anis> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for george_e Membership!
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> george_e: Welcome aboard!
<sethj> Congrats george_e!
<elacheche_anis> And just for the records, you got +1 from belkinsa via the ML & +1 from PabloRubianes
<toddy> congrats george_e
<george_e> \o/
<george_e> Thanks!
<RPiAwesomeness> \o/ Congrats george_e
<Kilos> congrats george_e  and welcome aboard
<elacheche_anis> Congrats george_e :) keep the good work :)
<elacheche_anis> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  2 22:16:02 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-02-22.03.moin.txt
<elacheche_anis> No more condidates for tonight :) see you next time guys :)
<iulian> Just added you to ~ubuntumembers on launchpad.
<Kilos> iulian  you guys know each other
<Kilos> and hggdh  too
<wxl> congrats george_e ! great to meet you!!
<george_e> wxl: same here.
<hggdh> george_e: welcome in :-)
<ahoneybun> Welcome george_e :)
<george_e> Thanks :)
<Kilos> ha ahoneybun  you got here
<ahoneybun> Sorry on the road atm
<ahoneybun> Kilos: bit late I'm sorry
<Kilos> np
<Kilos> go safe
<ahoneybun> Hopefully elacheche_anis took over my job lol
<Kilos> yeah he is getting good at it
<ahoneybun> Kilos: I'm not driving but just forgot since I needed to pack
<Kilos> lol ok
<Kilos> glad you got here anyway
<ahoneybun> Is there no one for the next meeting
<Kilos> both been done
<Kilos> you are 2 hours late
<ahoneybun> Oh damn
<ahoneybun> :(
<Kilos> lol
<ahoneybun> Time got away again
<Kilos> np we were enough
<ahoneybun> Still I like to go to them all
<Kilos> yeah ill try reming you early next time
<Kilos> remind
<hggdh> elacheche_anis: now about an #endmeeting? ;-)
<ahoneybun> Thanks elacheche_anis for the email
<Kilos> oh my
<hggdh> nope, done
<Kilos> hehe
<ahoneybun> #endmeeting
<ahoneybun> Lol
<Kilos> yeah done
<hggdh> bad eyes, mine. I blame somebody else
<ahoneybun> We should make a telegram group
<Kilos> thats an idea, i looked at telegram but had no one to use it with
<ahoneybun> I do
<ahoneybun> I use with the Kubuntu Podcast Tean
<ahoneybun> Team
<elacheche_anis> what's telegram o_O
<ahoneybun> elacheche_anis: like Google Hangout
<ahoneybun> The MMS part
<Kilos> ahoneybun  send instructions in our ml and we can get it going
<elacheche_anis> Emm.. Let's don't stress ubuntulog about our chat :D Let's go to the other channel :D
<ahoneybun> Kilos: OK cool
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-05
<howefield> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jul  5 18:45:54 2015 UTC.  The chair is howefield. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<howefield> #chairs cariboo907 coffeecat howefield slickymaster
<cariboo907> o/
<slickymaster> o/
<coffeecat> o/
<howefield> evening :)
<howefield> nothing listed for "General Agenda Items and Proposals" https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<slickymaster> nopes
<cariboo907> were we going to have a bit of a discussion about the proposed Froum staff meeting?
<howefield> does anyone have anything to bring up ?
<howefield> can do :)
<howefield> #chair cariboo907 coffeecat howefield slickymaster
<meetingology> Current chairs: cariboo907 coffeecat howefield slickymaster
<howefield> that's better
<howefield> #topic Forum Staff Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Forum Staff Meeting
<cariboo907> we have tentatively  set it up for July 18th at 20:00 UTC
<howefield> we should post the date for staff feedback
<slickymaster> it will be posted in SCC, this week, an official anouncement about it, I tjink
<slickymaster> lol howefield
<slickymaster> I can do that
<howefield> wfm
<slickymaster> do you want me to action that howefield?
<howefield> well, I was waiting for an avalanche of others wanting to post it...
<howefield> ;p
<slickymaster> #action slickymaster to start a thread in SCC, announcing the staff meeting date and hour
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to start a thread in SCC, announcing the staff meeting date and hour
<cariboo907>  We should add something like this for those of us who are time zoned out http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Forum+Council+Meeting&iso=20150705T18&p1=1440&ah=1
<howefield> +1
<slickymaster> was planning to
<cariboo907> thanks
<howefield> ok, moving on.
<howefield> #topic Fixed Agenda Items : AOB and Team Report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Fixed Agenda Items : AOB and Team Report
<cariboo907> I can do the team report
<howefield> thanks cariboo907
<slickymaster> I don't have no other business
<slickymaster> thanks for doing that cariboo907
<howefield> ok, anyone else got anything to bring up before we close ?
<cariboo907> it's been a while, but I should be able to muddle through :)
<howefield> lol - before your holiday or after?
<slickymaster> or during
<cariboo907> I'll do it before I go :)
<howefield> let's close, thanks everyone :)
<cariboo907> +1
<slickymaster> thanks howefield, cariboo907, cariboo907
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> coffeecat:
<howefield> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jul  5 19:00:32 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-05-18.45.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-04
<infinity> micahg: I assume we're skipping today, due to July 4th and DebConf?
<infinity> juliank is bugging me. :P
 * rbasak is here
<infinity> Doesn't look like quorum.
<cyphermox> depends if some of the US people are here
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Wow, just had the biggest IRC lag ever, uh
<rbasak> That's four then, if infinity is available?
<infinity> I'm sort of here, at DebConf and in and out.
<cyphermox> cheese and wine?
<infinity> Not yet cheese and wine time. :P
<infinity> I, however, only have about 5m of battery left.
<cyphermox> well do we have juliank?
<juliank> cyphermox: I'm here with infinity trying to find power :D
<infinity> I win!  Power!
<infinity> So, I see no micah, does that make me the chair?
<sil2100> Objection! juliank is obviously trying to manipulate the DMB by influencing infinity in real life!
<infinity> HE'S THREATENING ME WITH A PLUSH COW.
<sil2100> Probably bribing him with wine and cheese by now
<sil2100> !
<sil2100> Or worse it seems!
<infinity> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  4 15:16:21 2016 UTC.  The chair is infinity. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<infinity> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Action review
<infinity> cyphermox: Did you do the thing?
<cyphermox> if it's just the three of us we don't have quorum
<infinity> Someone said 4...
<cyphermox> infinity: no. mea culpa, I should do it now
<cyphermox> oh, nevermind I had not seen rbasak
<infinity> cyphermox: Doing it "now" as in, we can remove it from the agenda, or "nowish", and we should keep it there? :P
<cyphermox> keep it there so next time I can have the joy of saying it's done.
<rbasak> I still have to poke infinity to do the thing for GunnarHj.
<infinity> rbasak: Kay.
<infinity> sil2100: Your touch action marked done on the wiki, concur?
<infinity> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
<infinity> I see no rosco here.  Skipping along.
<sil2100> infinity: yes, I cleaned up the wiki and checked the others, so it's done
<infinity> #topic MOTU Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: MOTU Applications
<cyphermox> infinity: rosco wasn't scheduled for today
<infinity> cyphermox: Oh, derp.  I no can read.
<infinity> So, re: jbicha.  Do we need discussion here?
<infinity> Clearly not, as he's a MOTU member.
<infinity> So someone reinstated him already.
 * infinity zips along.
<infinity> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<infinity> juliank: Your turn.
<infinity> So, from my POV, juliank needs exactly zero of the silly questions we usually ask, his work speaks for itself.
<infinity> My only concern about PPU versus core-dev was if he needed the keys to the kingdom, or a more limited set, but he's expressed interest in generic +1 type work across the distro.
<infinity> juliank: Feel free to introduce yourself and make any arguments you'd like to as to why you're a whiz-bang guy.
<rbasak> juliank: do you understand the Ubuntu release cycle, freezes, etc?
 * ogra_ cheers for juliank 
<ogra_> *\o/*
<ogra_> (pompoms)
<ogra_> (no miniskirt though)
<juliank> rbasak: Yes, I do understand the release cycle and the freezes. I even aligned the whole APT 1.2 series to it :)
<rbasak> OK, that's all from me then. Thanks :)
<infinity> ogra_: Thank god.
<ogra_> :)
<infinity> ogra_: I still have nightmares about your cycling shorts.
<ogra_> haha
<sil2100> ...wow
<ogra_> from paris with love :)
 * sil2100 has no questions
<infinity> I don't think elmo will ever forget that day either.
<ogra_> heh, definitely ... i still hav the pants in case i need to blackmail him one day
<infinity> Aaaaaanyway.
<infinity> Brain bleach aside, shall we vote, or do people have questions for the super-cow-powered juliank?
<mvo> +1 from me
<mvo> sorry for being late
<infinity> mvo: You don't get a vote.
<mvo> I know
<ogra_> thats just additional cheering ;)
<mvo> I still want to show my support!
<mvo> exactly
<infinity> mvo: Plus, you abandoned me, so your +1 is a -1.
 * mvo hugs infinity
<infinity> #startvote Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
<infinity> #vote Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<infinity> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from infinity
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<infinity> cyphermox: ?
<cyphermox> wooa, difficult decisions
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<infinity> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<infinity> Looketh good to me.
<juliank> Yay!
<infinity> Who wants to go add him?
<ogra_> congrats !!
<rbasak> I'll do it.
<infinity> rbasak: Ta.
<infinity> #topic Next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Next chair
<infinity> Next chair should be Micah again, I guess.
<infinity> And probably me a few times, because I keep missing meetings.
<infinity> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<infinity> Anyone have any OB?
<cyphermox> how's South Africa?
<infinity> Pleasant.
<infinity> Nice mild winter.
<infinity> Beats the harsh summer back home.
<juliank> It's really warm today!
<infinity> Right, that concludes our OB, it seems.
<infinity> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  4 15:31:20 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-04-15.16.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/ Thanks everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-05
<rbasak> o/
<cpaelzer> nacc who is todays chair isn't here yet - so a slow o/
<rharper> \o
<coreycb`> o/
<powersj> o/
<magicalChicken> o/
<smb> o/
<cpaelzer> ok, lets start - nacc can take over later
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  5 16:03:00 2016 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<cpaelzer> checkign the log ...
<cpaelzer> no old actions
<cpaelzer> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<cpaelzer> has anyone recent updates on Y development?
<rharper> the alphas were posted
<cpaelzer> thanks rharper I didn't realizie that yet
<cpaelzer> rharper: is there any useful link for the log to refer to?
<rharper> #link http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/
<cpaelzer> ah so just the usual place, thanks a lot rharper
<rharper> yeah
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> lets take a look together if anything important popped up whcih isn't taken care of yet
<cpaelzer> most look like in progress
<cpaelzer> and for some of the new ones I know that rbasak distributed them to us already
<cpaelzer> so I think we are good here for the week
<cpaelzer> any bug someone wants to highlight before we continue?
<rharper> they all look covered to me too
<cpaelzer> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<cpaelzer> caribou: up to you for updates
<cpaelzer> I didn't see a o/ from him either so far, maybe he is unavailable
<cpaelzer> anybody else a general Server & Cloud bug topic to throw in?
<cpaelzer> the week around 4th of july is impressively silent :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions FROM the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions FROM the QA Team
<cpaelzer> you might have realized I changed the usual topic slightly as we now have powersj with us
<powersj> :) hey folks
<rharper> cpaelzer: =)
<powersj> first day, got email going finally, so I will be in contact shortly. Would like to get input from rharper or others around the CI system.
<rharper> indeed
<powersj> Access, what's there, etc.
<powersj> If there are other documents or pointers please send away or let me know!
<cpaelzer> reasonable - the overall QA Team will likely also share more of the overall QA strategy things
<cpaelzer> powersj: so we should throw CI/QA stuff at you and you sort out what you jump on ?
<cpaelzer> good
<powersj> cpaelzer, sure. Jon left me with some guidance as well
<cpaelzer> good
<cpaelzer> in any case (throwing info or not) a big welcome to powersj
<cpaelzer> ^^WELCOME^^
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<powersj> thanks! glad to be here
<smb> Nothing really as in updates. Are there questions?
<cpaelzer> no updates means good news in that case
<cpaelzer> semms like no questions, thanks smb!
<cpaelzer> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<cpaelzer> I was asked to talk about dpdk packaging on a dpdk conf, but that is already kind of assigned
<cpaelzer> anything else regarding CFPs?
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<cpaelzer> with jgrimm on vacation there won't be much new events planned, so lets go on
<cpaelzer> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> seeing how things went today I guess no - but anything?
<powersj> #server best place to ask questions?
<cpaelzer> powersj: if you are secretive #server on internal - if you expect anyone else could either benefit or help you #ubuntu-server is surely better
<powersj> k thx
<cpaelzer> powersj: also if it is rather generic (not server specific) about ubuntu development/packaging #ubuntu-devel is a good place
<cpaelzer> powersj: I'd expect the QA people have an own channel as well - at least internally
<cpaelzer> in any case starting on #server and being redirected will work for you until you geta feeling where to go with which question
<powersj> alright thanks again
<cpaelzer> #topic Announce next meeting 12th of July,  same time chaired by nacc then
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting 12th of July,  same time chaired by nacc then
<rbasak> powersj: #ubuntu-quality is the public Ubuntu QA channel.
<cpaelzer> rbasak: thanks!
<cpaelzer> rbasak: are you ready for the bgu talk ?
<rbasak> I was called away before this meeting so wasn't able to prepare for bug updates, sorry. So I propose to do it on IRC over the next few days and not all together today. But if you have updates prepared, feel free to give me them now, and I'll log them and update later (I still haven't caught up from last week :-(
<cpaelzer> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<cpaelzer> rbasak: I'll wait til you ping me to collect mine instead of flooding the channel like last week
<cpaelzer> rbasak: give me a ping once you get to digest the log of last week
<rbasak> OK, thanks!
<cpaelzer> rbasak: same probably true for all others
<rbasak> Yes, I'll ping around in #ubuntu-server.
<rbasak> (probably tomorrow)
<cpaelzer> nice
<cpaelzer> with that a quick meeting this week, thank you all
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  5 16:21:05 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-05-16.03.moin.txt
<rbasak> I'm busy with MySQL at the moment, because Debconf is proceeding in Cape Town so I'm working closely with otto while he's full time there.
<rharper> cpaelzer: thanks!
<cpaelzer> rharper: tell nacc when he wakes up :-P
<rharper> heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-06
<tinwood> do we have people here for the openstack-charms-meeting?
<gnuoy> \o
<thedac> o/
<gnuoy> \o pp jamespage
<coreycb> o/
<tinwood> okay, so my first time, (oooh), so we'll see how it goes.
<tinwood> #startmeeting openstack-charms-meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul  6 17:00:48 2016 UTC.  The chair is tinwood. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic:
<tinwood> welcome all!
<gnuoy> thanks
<tinwood> The first topic is:
<tinwood> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<tinwood> Looking at the last minutes, gnuoy, it's about moving this meeting!?
<gnuoy> sure, I've done a subtopic for each action in the past
<gnuoy> but I'm guessing you're looking at me for moving this meeting...
<tinwood> Not sure I follow.
<gnuoy> #subtopic gnuoy to move this meeting
<gnuoy> ^ that sort of thing
<gnuoy> anyway
<gnuoy> I have a gerrit request up for scheduling the meeting
<gnuoy> but we can't have this slot
<tinwood> (Still new at this) I guess I have to do that?
<gnuoy> we can have: http://paste.ubuntu.com/18635394/
<tinwood> And those map to times, I'm guessing.
<gnuoy> tinwood, good point they are all 17:00 UTC
<gnuoy> so, I propose openstack-meeting-4 biweekly-even
<gnuoy> on a Monday
<thedac> works for me
<gnuoy> biweekly means we can have another meeting if we need for apac
<tinwood> We'd have to move our charms catchup?
<gnuoy> 1 week in USA friendly time, one week in apac friendly
<tinwood> Or is that earlier? (UTC vs BST).
<gnuoy> not everyone would attend both
<thedac> tinwood:  that is one hour earlier
<tinwood> Sounds okay then.
<gnuoy> this meeting is 17:00 UTC
<tinwood> Yes, I like those slots
<coreycb> that time sounds good to me
<gnuoy> ok, I will book that first slot, thanks
<tinwood> Okay, sounds like an action - is that okay for you to do gnuoy as you're running with it.
<gnuoy> yep
<tinwood> #action gnuoy to try to book first slot from http://paste.ubuntu.com/18635394/
<meetingology> ACTION: gnuoy to try to book first slot from http://paste.ubuntu.com/18635394/
<tinwood> thanks gnuoy
<tinwood> #topic State of Development for next Charm Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: State of Development for next Charm Release
<tinwood> Any comments on this topic, please?
<gnuoy> Keystone v3 support in the dashboard has landed
<tinwood> \o/
<thedac> Apparmor for nova-compute is close. I am fighting an amulet race condition at the moment.
<gnuoy> A few caveats though. The dashboard now has to have a db relation if you want to use keystone v3
<gnuoy> Designate and designate bind should land this week.
<tinwood> barbican is very close, but has a bug upstream :(
<coreycb> I have a number of deploy from source reviews ready for review, which should cover the bulk of getting DFS into shape.  the corresponding c-h changes have landed for the current reviews.
<gnuoy> \o/
<gnuoy> coreycb, hopefully you should get your charmhelper syncs for free
<gnuoy> with jamespages ch sync for licensing changes
<tinwood> So it looks like it's all heading in the right direction.
<gnuoy> one more thing
<tinwood> Any more before we move on?
<gnuoy> all interfaces and layers are in Git/Gerrit now
<gnuoy> ^ Repoint reviews if you need to!
<coreycb> gnuoy, very nice
<gnuoy> jamespages work but am happy to take the credit
<coreycb> :)
<tinwood> Oh, at the feature freeze day is next week.
<gnuoy> yea! good point
<thedac> coreycb++
<gnuoy> Thursday next week to be precise
<tinwood> So anything that has to make the release needs to be done by next Thursday.
<coreycb> tinwood, feature-wise, at least
<tinwood> yes
<tinwood> next:
<tinwood> #topic Release Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Release Bugs
<tinwood> gnuoy, would you have your link handy?
<tinwood> I'm guessing: #link https://goo.gl/HJjORI
<gnuoy> yep
<tinwood> Yes, there are 32 bugs on the list.
<gnuoy> ...and we still seem to making little progress
<gnuoy> that seems to be like 32 too many
<tinwood> Do they need to be shifted by 16.07?
<tinwood> bearing in mind some of them are quite 'old'.
<gnuoy> I'm not sure, I think James does something about retargeting bus
<gnuoy> * bugs
<jamespage_shadow> so long as our run rate on bugs is stable, I think we're ok - we need to focus on high priority bugs first
<jamespage_shadow> (of coursE)
<jamespage_shadow> I would encourage you all to take some time over the next week and spend an hour on the bug queue
<jamespage_shadow> please :-)
<jamespage_shadow> I'll be focussing on reviews, landing and bugs in the next 8 days in the runup to final freeze
<tinwood> okay, that sounds like a good plan.
<tinwood> #topic Openstack Events
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<tinwood> I noticed an email that said there was a week to go for submitting talk abstracts for ODS?  Did I read that right?
<gnuoy> tinwood, I think your looking at an out of data agends
<gnuoy> * agenda
<gnuoy> I have next agenda item as "Openstack talk submissions for ODS
<gnuoy> "
<gnuoy> ...
<tinwood> indeed. sorry.
<gnuoy> np, they were adds
<tinwood> #topic Openstack talk submissions for ODS
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Openstack talk submissions for ODS
<gnuoy> So, hands up if you've submitted one!
 * gnuoy keeps his hand down
 * tinwood knows nothing :(
<coreycb> I plan to submit one, not sure what yet though
<tinwood> aparently ONE talk has been submitted so far.
<tinwood> according to the email I saw.
<thedac> gnuoy: we talked about a Openstack charms development talk we could co-author
<gnuoy> yes, agreed
<tinwood> I'd love to collaborate as I enjoy talking.
<tinwood> but not if you've already got a partner!
<thedac> sounds good we can discuss offline
<gnuoy> and lets talk to markbaker about getting a charm school workshop as well
<jamespage_shadow> some general guidance - talk about things openstack-ish that are really interesting to the general community
<jamespage_shadow> we're (almost) and openstack project, so this is a great change to let the world know about us!
<jamespage_shadow> deploying openstack talks +1000
<jamespage_shadow> beisner, testing stuff good as well - maybe some s390-ish?
<tinwood> Anything else on ODS?
<tinwood> Any actions?
<cargonza> wrt to charm school, I need to sync with the sales team to field the attendance...
<tinwood> #action cargonza to sync with sales team re charm school at ODS Barcelona
<meetingology> ACTION: cargonza to sync with sales team re charm school at ODS Barcelona
<cargonza> I'll coordinate logistics with the admins (ie. rooms, av, etc.)
<gnuoy> awesome
<tinwood> excellent.
<tinwood> Okay, next topic looks a bit strange.
<tinwood> #topic What does the chair of this meeting do after the meeting?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: What does the chair of this meeting do after the meeting?
<gnuoy> ok, this one is mine
<gnuoy> The chair of this meeting doesn't always seem to be following the actions outlined in the wiki
<coreycb> drinks a beer and goes to bed?
 * tinwood lol
<gnuoy> So, can we review the process and amend accordingly
<tinwood> My first time so ..
<gnuoy> tinwood, I think thats an action for jamespage and I
<jamespage_shadow> agreed -
<jamespage_shadow> once we move under #openstack for meetings we get automated minutes; but I'd like for us to announce the meeting prior to it happening
<jamespage_shadow> and summarize on the openstack-dev ML afterwards
<tinwood> #action gnuoy & jamespage to review the chair's post meeting process and amend as required.
<meetingology> ACTION: gnuoy & jamespage to review the chair's post meeting process and amend as required.
<jamespage_shadow> which is not as documented on the ubuntu wiki, but that's where we came from , not where we want to be
<jamespage_shadow> lets get that sorted out between now and next week
<gnuoy> tinwood, sorry, I meant previous chairs not you
<gnuoy> what I really meant was:
<tinwood> okay, that sounds good.  I'm hoping one of you is a chair for the first openstack-meetings meeting.
<gnuoy> We have a process documented and I don;t think its clear to everyone so lets review that
<tinwood> Right, so there's an action for that.  okay to move on?
<gnuoy> sounds good to me
<tinwood> #topic workload status messages, max 20 chars and proper case?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: workload status messages, max 20 chars and proper case?
<gnuoy> ok, so, thats me as weel
<gnuoy> * well
<tinwood> I think I'm guilty here.
 * thedac hides
<gnuoy> There was a suggestion that we are consistent accross all charms and use proper caps and limit them to 20 chars
<tinwood> When you say 'Proper Caps', what do you mean?
<gnuoy> I'm not convinced tbh. I think we'll loose valuable info
<gnuoy> Like this
<gnuoy> rather than
<gnuoy> like this
<tinwood> Okay, that's good.
<tinwood> What's the driver?
<tinwood> for 20 chars only?
<thedac> I agree a max 20 chars will lose valuable information
<gnuoy> I think its useful to say: all these interfaces are missing...
<gnuoy> thats more that 20chars right there
<coreycb> that is fairly limiting, 20 chars
<coreycb> perhaps the requester will negotiate
<tinwood> Unless it's "'mysql', 'hsm', is miss..."
<jamespage_shadow> okies - so I think working some examples might be useful
<jamespage_shadow> then we can review appropriately and see what works well
<coreycb> jamespage, +1
<tinwood> It sounds like we need to pull together all of the workload statuses we set, put them down somewhere, and review it?  Or is that too much?
<coreycb> or gnuoy ^
<gnuoy> Maybe aim for nice caps and succint message but not limit chars
<gnuoy> coreycb, haha that was jamespage
<coreycb> lol
<coreycb> tinwood, I think that's a good idea
<coreycb> at least a subset of the common messages
<tinwood> This sounds like an action.  Who's not here today?
<tinwood> Seriously, do we need this as a minuted action?
<gnuoy> tinwood, I don't think so. Maybe lets all keep in mind the formatting of thos stauses
<gnuoy> * those
<tinwood> Can I ask where the '20' came from?
<gnuoy> it was a suggestion floating around for people with limited terminal width
<thedac> --format yaml FTW
<gnuoy> haha yeah
<tinwood> okay, so no action, but try to keep them short and snappy.  assess_status() is a repeat offender as it concatenates missing interfaces ... a lot.
<tinwood> #topic Openstack Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Openstack Events
<tinwood> We may have covered this, but any more events?
<gnuoy> Well ODS but I think we've covered that
<tinwood> Ok, moving on to:
<tinwood> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<tinwood> The floor is yours.
<gnuoy> I have nothing to openly discuss :-)
 * tinwood chuckles
<thedac> Do we want to discuss the email thread about hosting third party OS charms?
<tinwood> fire away.
<thedac> congress and charm partner charms
<thedac> Should all charms go upstream or is there a selection criteria?
<gnuoy> there are no 3rd party os charms
<jamespage_shadow> as a project, openstack charms should be embracing anyone who wants to charm their part of openstack
<thedac> agreed. I am aksing if the charm partner SDN charms should also be in this category
<jamespage_shadow> publication of such charms to the juju charm store is dependent on them meeting the criteria as set out by the juju charm team
<jamespage_shadow> thedac, +1 absoluletey
<jamespage_shadow> thedac, plumgrid already asked, onos want to be
<jamespage_shadow> I think the model of charms-core + charms-<group>-core will work well here
<thedac> ok, so if we could document the procedure that would be helpful
<jamespage_shadow> sure - I'll put something in the charm-guide
<thedac> great
<jamespage_shadow> #action jamespage document procedure for setup of sub-charm group ownership for SDN/storage vendors etc...
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage document procedure for setup of sub-charm group ownership for SDN/storage vendors etc...
<tinwood> jamespage, beat me to it.
<gnuoy> thanks jamespage
<tinwood> Anything more for Open Discussion?
<gnuoy> not from me
<gnuoy> or from jamespage
<thedac> I am good
<coreycb> I'm good as well
<tinwood> Great.
<tinwood> #action Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<meetingology> ACTION: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<tinwood> So the chair rotates; who's up for it next?
<gnuoy> tinwood, it's in the wiki, one sec
<gnuoy> tinwood, thedac is the winner
<tinwood> \o/
<tinwood> At the moment, we're assuming next Wednesday at 17.00UTC here again?
<gnuoy> tinwood, yes, I hope its elsewhere but will post a redirect here if needs be
<thedac> ok
<tinwood> okay, then.  With no further ado, thanks everybody and ...
<tinwood> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul  6 17:52:12 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-06-17.00.moin.txt
<coreycb> thanks tinwood
<gnuoy> thanks tinwood that was an epic
<tinwood> np
<tinwood> now I've got to work out what to do next.
<thedac> thanks tinwood
<gnuoy> tinwood, ha, I can help if need be :-)
<tinwood> I'll have a go and get back to you.  thanks all!
<cargonza> thx tinwood for chairing
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-07
<barry> o/
<caribou> \o
<pitti> o/
<robru> \o/
<sil2100> o/
 * sil2100 is not ready
<cyphermox> \o
<pitti> slangasek: AYT?
<barry> lightning round: people did stuff.  #endmeeting
<sil2100> !
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
 * sil2100 walks away
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  7 15:04:06 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<pitti> slangasek tdaitx chiluk barry sil2100 xnox cyphermox infinity bdmurray pitti robru doko caribou
<pitti> ooook -- our boss isn't here, but I think tdaitx should be?
<pitti> barry: go ahead
<barry> short week due to usa holiday
<barry>  
<barry>  
<barry> review bileto branch for robru
<barry> xonsh 0.4.3+dfsg-1 sponsorship; reviewed LP: #1596667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1596667 in python-pip (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/pip3:11:visit_decref:dict_traverse:subtract_refs:collect:collect_with_callback" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1596667
<barry> ubuntu-image: travis branch (merged; was working but now all travis-ci builds for ubuntu-image are wedged; support emails sent); gadget branch (also landed w/o functioning ci); travis-redux branch PR; currently working on flow branch for basic image building
<barry> --done--
<cyphermox> are there two lines empty there on purpose?
<sil2100> Wait, me?
<sil2100> I still need 5 minutes
<barry> cyphermox: stupid cutnpaste
<cyphermox> ah ok
<caribou> cyphermox: not empty for me
<barry> no, not a secret skunkworx project
<tdaitx> I'm ready
<pitti> tdaitx: go ahead
<tdaitx> Short week: day-off on Friday, flying back home on Tuesday
<tdaitx> = Merges
<tdaitx> - ncurses done, awating review/sponsoring (LP: #1598850)
<tdaitx> - isc-dhcp ongoing
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - 11 patches to backport (of 15 as 4 can be safely ignored on openjdk 7)
<tdaitx> - 8 backports done, 3 ongoing (1 jaxp and 2 hotspot)
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1598850 in ncurses (Ubuntu) "[merge request] Please merge ncurses 6.0+20160319-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598850
<pitti> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - network yaml
<cyphermox> - subiquity first boot experience
<cyphermox> - catching up mwhudson on the state of subiquity
<chiluk> gah..
<cyphermox> - Secure Boot discussions with kernel team while testing
<cyphermox> - tracking down shim-signed Secure Boot possible regression w/ Gtk frontend
<cyphermox> - getting up to date on how to build an OS snap
<cyphermox> - setting up local livecd-rootfs/etc. for building building my own test OS snap
<cyphermox> (done)
<chiluk> way to skip me pitti.
<pitti> chiluk: you didn't wave, but please go ahead now :)
<chiluk> Handling Maas 2.0 inquiries
<chiluk> Presenting at Texas Linux Fest.  (Ubuntu development primer- how to submit fixes to ubuntu)
<chiluk> Short week - Holiday on Monday
<pitti> chiluk: oh, any new great bug triagers/reporters from that?
<chiluk> pitti.. I'm a slacker.. just getting back from PT now..
<chiluk> pitti the presentation will be Saturday.
<chiluk> but hopefully we'll get some help out of it.
<pitti> bdmurray: here?
<pitti> network-yaml: add support for wifi (including autopkgtest) and manual addresses (not finished yet); cranked up integration test coverage to 100%
<pitti> convergence-y-replace-upstart: discuss some necessary infrastructure with systemd upstream, sent PR; adjust our PoC to new schema, and fix clean session shutdown
<pitti> ddebs: Clean up ddebs which just contain HTTP errors and re-import them (fallout from PS outage)
<pitti> britney: Initial conversion to git (fight with bzr fast-export bug), now in the middle of rebasing our enormous delta on Debian and cleaning up obsolete patches; we need to merge to the current version to get support for versioned provides, and there have been some bigger architectural changes
<pitti> Drop sysv-rc dependency from remaining packages and eliminate from archive; sysvinit-utils is now the only (mostly harmless, but required) binary that we build from sysvinit
<pitti> systemd: Investigate/try to reproduce networkd RA handling issues (Debian #815793, #815884)
<ubottu> Debian bug 815884 in systemd "does not retry IPv6 router solicitations" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/815884
<pitti> patch pilot shift on Friday, lots of SRU reviews
<ubottu> Debian bug 815793 in systemd "IPv6 code ignores unsolicited router advertisements" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/815793
<pitti> (done)
<pitti> robru:
<sil2100> Ok, I'm ready if anything
<robru> one sec
<robru> go sil2100
<sil2100> Thanks :)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - OTA-12:
<sil2100>   * Cherry-picking fixes like crazy, image re-spins like crazy
<sil2100>   * Helping out in building snapshot-based silos
<sil2100> - Midori:
<sil2100>   * Preparing testing channels
<sil2100>   * Copying required changes to emergency snapshot
<sil2100>   * Building custom rootfs, re-targeting custom tarballs
<sil2100> - Add a new ubuntu-touch-custom cdimage project for image re-spins
<sil2100> - Fixing frieza commitlogs
<sil2100> - Touch xenial:
<sil2100>   * Reviewing and copying oxide-qt-arm64 package to the xenial overlay
<sil2100>   * Re-building all oxide arm64 dep-wait packages
<sil2100>   * Working on cdimage changes to enable arm64 builds for rootfs needs
<sil2100> - Helping out with maliit-framework package releases for hotfixes
<sil2100> (done)
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - continuing to port & parallelize status job from lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> - link to documentation in the log view
<robru> (end)
<pitti> sil2100: did the oxide/arm64 stunt work?
<pitti> doko is at debconf too
<pitti> caribou:
<caribou>  Bugfix
<caribou>  LACP bonding + multipath issue
<caribou>  - Turns out to be LVM misconfiguration
<caribou> samba winbind statically linked (LP: #1584485)
<caribou>  - Figured out samba build system
<caribou>  - Fighting to find proper compiler switches
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1584485 in samba (Ubuntu) "Upgrading samba to latest security fixes together with winbind in nsswitch.conf can harm entire OS" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1584485
<caribou> Launchpad & Public :
<caribou>  LP: #1570775 - add cio_ignore to kexec on s390x
<caribou>  - Backport of Yakkety fix in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570775 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Xenial) "makekdump should re-exec with cio_ignore on s390x" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570775
<sil2100> pitti: yes! I was shocked, aparently it just worked :o
<caribou> Sosreport autopkgtests
<caribou>  - New upstream release uploaded to debian with DEP8 tests
<caribou>  - Sync with Yakkety
<sil2100> pitti: things never 'just work'
<caribou>  - Needs to figure out why they don't run
<pitti> sil2100: something MUST be wrong
<sil2100> I know!
<caribou> â Done
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> pitti: thanks again for the advice!
<pitti> np!
<doko> \o/
<pitti> caribou: as-tu prÃªt pour le match ce soir ? :-)
<cyphermox> hey doko!
<caribou> I'll need help for the samba statically linked libnss_winbind btw
<cyphermox> pitti: "es"-tu
<doko> just for completeness:
<caribou> pitti: doko: yes, big night of cheering !
<cyphermox> pitti: otherwise well done :)
<doko> - being at DebConf
<pitti> Â¡ÇÉ¹ÇÉ¥dsá´É¯ÇÉ¥ É¹ÇÉ¥Êo ÇÉ¥Ê oÊ sÆuá´ÊÇÇÉ¹Æ Â¡oÊop ÊÇÉ¥
<doko> - still doing xenial SRUs
<pitti> cyphermox: ah, je suis dÃ©solÃ©, merci :)
<doko> - GCC 6 test rebuild, and normal test rebuild
<doko> (done)
<caribou> if that rings a bell to someone : crtbeginT.o: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `__TMC_END__' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<caribou> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.8/crtbeginT.o: error adding symbols: Bad value
<cyphermox> black magic!
<pitti> caribou: since yakkety? amd64 now defaults to -fPIE, maybe you try to link against a lib that wasn't rebuilt with PIE? (just wildly guessing)
<caribou> fyi : compiling & linking with -static -static-libgcc
<pitti> s/yakkety?/yakkety,/
<caribou> pitti: I thought that -static-libgcc would dtrt
<caribou> pitti: hmm, worth a try to rebuild on Xenial just to confirm
<caribou> pitti: neverming, I'm building on Trusty (for a SRU)
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> anyone? anything?
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  7 15:18:45 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-07-15.04.moin.txt
<pitti> thanks everyone
<caribou> pitti: thanks!
<caribou> & pls don't stop accepting my SRUs if we beat you tonight ;)
<barry> thanks!
<pitti> caribou: that's rather likely to happen
<pitti> caribou: the beating, not the SRU thing :)
<caribou> pitti: dunno, not a football expert but should be a good game
<pitti> caribou: absolutely; I hope a tad less nail-bite-y than the one against Italy; maybe more like FRA-ICL (although that's unlikely) :)
<ogra_> are you guys talking about frances last game in this euro tonight ?
<caribou> ogra_: No,Germany's last one ;)
 * ogra_ heard seb128 even took off tomorrow for weeping :P
<slangasek> pitti: thanks for running the meeting :)
<pitti> slangasek: pas de problÃ¨me !
<sil2100> ;)
<dholbach> do we have anyone here who wants to discuss anything in the CC meeting?
<dholbach> unfortunately we didn't schedule any meetings with any of the teams for this week (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda)
<tsimonq2> dholbach: Lubuntu is long overdue
<tsimonq2> wxl? you around?
<wxl> tsimonq2: i am
<mhall119> do you guys have topics youwant to discuss?
<dholbach> we had lubuntu on 2016-04-21 - were you able to make it back then?
<mhall119> we havne't re-scheduled the regular checkins yet, but we're always avilable if there's a topic
<dholbach> or is this something we wanted to reschedule?
<wxl> *i* don't have a topic. tsimonq2 called me in here :)
<tsimonq2> yeah I just thought I'd mention it ;)
<mhall119> tsimonq2: if you don't have anything specific, we'll just get you on the schedule
<tsimonq2> mhall119: I think that would be great
<tsimonq2> mhall119: (Lubuntu)
<wxl> sounds good to me!
<mhall119> ok, we'll send an email with the day once the schedule is made
<dholbach> cool
<tsimonq2> alright thanks mhall119 and dholbach :)
<dholbach> thank you!
<mhall119> np
<mhall119> anybody else who wants to meet with the CC today?
 * wxl disappears :)
<tsimonq2> ^
<teward> nope, but i would like to thank the CC for all that they do :)  Just because I'm sure they'll all see the thank you :)
<mhall119> :)
<tsimonq2> I agree with teward :)
<teward> so, thank you all, Community Council Members, for all that you do to help keep Ubuntu moving forward :)
 * Kilos seconds teward
<mhall119> thanks guys :)
<mhall119> we really do appreaciate hearing it
<Kilos> i have something that i want to take through the membership board first, then ill bother you guys
<mhall119> ok
<fossfreedom> hi all
<Kilos> hi fossfreedom
<teward> *lurks quietly*
<sethj> did I miss it?
<fossfreedom> hi seth ... quiet in here
<sethj> I know the feeling.
<sethj> my meeting ran about 5 minutes late too.
<sethj> kinda scary xD
<fossfreedom> :)
<fossfreedom> k - looks like things aren't happening :(
<sethj> wat
<toddy> hi fossfreedom. Please stay. I want to see if we have other board members online. one moment
<fossfreedom> sure
<sethj> I guess this is why they put out a call for more people in the 2000 and 2200 timeslots.
<fossfreedom> yeah - 1200UTC is kind of awkward ... in the middle of the working day and can never guarantee where I am from day to day
<toddy> at the moment the restaffing of the board is starting, but we are not very much at the moment.
<wxl> well, i'm here for what it's worth.
<wxl> fossfreedom: you still with us?
<fossfreedom> yep
<toddy> than we can start
<wxl> great, as i think we have managed to obtain quorum. our chair, ahoneybun, should be with us shortly :)
<fossfreedom> yay!
<wxl> thanks for your patience!
<ahoneybun> heyo fossfreedom
<sethj> yay
<fossfreedom> hi
<ahoneybun> #startmeeting 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  7 20:31:59 2016 UTC.  The chair is ahoneybun. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<ahoneybun> Hello and welcome to the Membership Board meeting!
<ahoneybun> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards. We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting.	
<ahoneybun> If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).	
<ahoneybun> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.	
<ahoneybun> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<popey> hello all
<popey> hi fossfreedom
<fossfreedom> hi popey
<ahoneybun> #topic David Mohammed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: David Mohammed
<popey> apologies for the delay in getting started fossfreedom
<fossfreedom> no problem
<ahoneybun> fossfreedom: could you please throw up links for your lp and wiki page
<ahoneybun> :)
<ahoneybun> yea sorry about that
<fossfreedom> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fossfreedom
 * ahoneybun kicks Google Calenday
<ahoneybun> *r
<fossfreedom> https://launchpad.net/~fossfreedom
<ahoneybun> thanks!
<ahoneybun> do we have anyone speaking for fossfreedom today?
<sethj> me!
<ahoneybun> you have the floor sethj
<sethj> I've known fossfreedom for about 4 years now, since I joined Ask Ubuntu. He has always been very friendly, helpful and super knowledgeable.
<ahoneybun> nice
<sethj> He does an amazing job as a moderator there in addition to his many many answers.
<toddy> yes, I see. He is very activ.
<popey> woah thats some rep on AU
<popey> puts mine to shame!
<fossfreedom> :)
<ahoneybun> over 1000 answers
<sethj> oh yes. He's also the highest reputation user :D
<wxl> O_O
<ahoneybun> any questions from the board?
<popey> I like that you have posts from 5 years ago as "top answers" - that to me alone says "sustained and significant", given you're still contributing 5 years later
<popey> I have a question.
<popey> fossfreedom: since your recent mail to the tech board about the budgie remix, how have your plans changed for that remix?
<fossfreedom> haven't really changed.  Taking things on board.  Working with Debian to get the key packages into Debian (then sync with 16.10) - so far got 3 out of 4 in.  Working with Jeremy Bicha for the remaining.
<popey> Oh that's excellent news. Exactly what I wanted to hear
<popey> Jeremy is great, and getting the packages in Debian is totally the right way to go, good work!
<popey> No more questions from me.
<wxl> having a bit of trouble finding info. is budgie c++?
<fossfreedom> its Vala based.  Upstream have announced this week that will intend to recode in C (clang)
<wxl> neat
<ahoneybun> cool stuff
<wxl> as a flavor contributor, i'm excited :)
 * toddy notes that he want to test budgie remix.
<ahoneybun> is the board ready for a vote?
<toddy> yes
<wxl> yup
<ahoneybun> #voters toddy ahoneybun wxl popey
<meetingology> Current voters: ahoneybun popey toddy wxl
<ahoneybun> #votesrequired 3
<meetingology> votes now need 3 to be passed
<ahoneybun> I think that's above 65% but
<ahoneybun> pretty sure how this going to go
<ahoneybun> #vote for David membership!
<meetingology> Please vote on: for David membership!
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<toddy> +1 - very good work. :)
<meetingology> +1 - very good work. :) received from toddy
<ahoneybun> +1 always great to see new flavors coming
<meetingology> +1 always great to see new flavors coming received from ahoneybun
<wxl> +1 and a resounding one at that!
<meetingology> +1 and a resounding one at that! received from wxl
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<ahoneybun> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for David membership!
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<popey> sorry, internet issues at home
<ahoneybun> welcome to the fold fossfreedom!
<wxl> added to ~ubuntumembers
<toddy> congrats, fossfreedom
<fossfreedom> many thanks all!
<wxl> congrats!
<popey> \o/ beat me to it wxl  ð
<ahoneybun> nice wxl lol
<wxl> neener neener popey :)
<fossfreedom> thank you for your time - pleasure meeting you all.  Look forward to helping out as much as I can.
<wxl> appreciate all you do, fossfreedom. hope to talk again soon!
 * popey rewards wxl with the penguin of satisfaction  ð§  
<sethj> yay
<ahoneybun> your very welcome fossfreedom, great work
<popey> fossfreedom: looking forward to testing an official budgie remix one day soon  ;)
<fossfreedom> :)
<wxl> won't we have to call it bubuntu, though? XD
<fossfreedom> nooooo
<wxl> hahahahah
<popey> those names aren't used anymore
<popey> although
<popey> I like the sound of Budge-buntu
<wxl> hahahahah
<ahoneybun> oh right
<fossfreedom> lol.
<popey> "You running Budge?"
<ahoneybun> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  7 20:48:04 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-07-20.31.moin.txt
<ahoneybun> I think that's it
<wxl> i'll clean up the wiki. can someone email -news?
<ahoneybun> mm I think we need some blog post or something to link to for them
<wxl> not for new memberships.
<ahoneybun> I'll email and see lol
<wxl> hhehehe ok thx
<ahoneybun> done wxl
 * popey goes back to watching oitnb :)
<popey> o/
<mhall119> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-03
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> hm, I guess many US people take a day off today
<sil2100> There's a holiday tomorrow so probably people take it to have a long weekend
<sil2100> Not sure if we'll have a quorum
<sil2100> rbasak: what should we do? I guess it's just the two of us today
<rbasak> sil2100: postpone? No applicants. My two actions are still outstanding :-/
<sil2100> rbasak: ok, let's postpone then
<sil2100> I reached out to infinity if anything, but we can talk about that when there's quorum
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-04
<cpaelzer> FYI - todays Server IRC Meeting cancelled due to 4th of july
 * genii puts the coffeepot away and stacks the chairs back up
<Kilos> lol hi genii
<Kilos> hello everyone else
 * genii makes sure Kilos gets a great tasting mug of coffee
<Kilos> wooohooooo ty genii
<genii> :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-05
<Rjr1> HOLA
<tsimonq2> Rjr1: HOLA
<tsimonq2> !es
<ubottu> En la mayorÃ­a de los canales de Ubuntu, se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol entre al canal #ubuntu-es; escriba " /join #ubuntu-es " (sin comillas) y presione intro.
<tsimonq2> :)
<Rjr1> COMO ESTAS
<tsimonq2> Bien
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-06
<sil2100> o/
 * slangasek waves
 * infinity grunts.
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  6 15:04:15 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint rcj philroche Odd_Bloke Tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> bdmurray fginther philroche rcj doko infinity Odd_Bloke tdaitx slangasek rbalint Tribaal sil2100 xnox cyphermox mwhudson
<slangasek> I believe bdmurray is off today
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Short week (2 days) due to holidays
<fginther> * Automated image publication workflow improvements
<fginther> * done
<slangasek> philroche:
<philroche> * Automated image publication workflow improvements
<philroche> done
<slangasek> I see a theme
<slangasek> rcj:
<rcj>  * Massive mfdiff updates (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/mfdiff/revision/19)
<rcj>  * Cloud-image automated promotion refactor work
<rcj> done
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - investigate glibc build failure with binutils 2.29 on arm64 and armhf
<doko> - investigate gcc-6 ICE triggered by ceph on arm64
<doko> - test build glibc trunk (works with binutils 2.29)
<doko> - binutils 2.29 testing
<doko> - now started the test rebuild (normal, and GCC 7)
<doko> - GCC updates
<doko> (done)
<infinity> * Merged glibc, with an upsteam commit to fix build with new binutils, but it now miscompiles on ARM (LP: #1702679)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1702679 in binutils (Ubuntu) "binutils fails to build glibc-2.24 on aarch64-linux-gnu and arm-linux-gnueabihf" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1702679
<infinity> * Point release HWE reviews, need to land all the drivers today, then the full HWE X stack should be in.
<infinity> * AA/SRU review and work.
<doko> and doing the test rebuilds using the packages in -proposed
<infinity> (done)
<gaughen> doko, anything to highlight on your list?
<Odd_Bloke> * Short week due to bathing in maple syrup^W^W^W^WCanada Day
<doko> gaughen: maybe the test rebuild, but I'll send an email about that tomorrow
<Odd_Bloke> * Cloud images vanguard
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<tdaitx> > OpenJDK 8 update (ongoing tests)
<tdaitx> > OpenJDK 7 backports (ongoing)
<tdaitx> > +1 maintenance (superseeded by openjdk update):
<tdaitx> - eclipse-mylyn, ongoing, checking bunch of failed reverse dep rebuilds (LP: #1652759)
<tdaitx> - python-pysam, stuck on inter-dependency between distutils extensions (LP: #1701268)
<tdaitx> > Other/AOB:
<tdaitx> - got a new home server, zesty/artful desktop image failed to start installer, resorted to artful server image
<tdaitx> - migrating schroots (then deleted a few by accident)
<tdaitx> - migrating LXD containers, ongoing, my laptop's lxd storage pool is misconfigured, needs manual intervention for migration
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1652759 in libcommons-lang-java (Ubuntu) "eclipse-mylyn 3.12.0-2 FTBFS (Unable to find plug-in: org.apache.commons.lang_0.0.0)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1652759
<tdaitx> - biking around again, tks for reminding me how cool that is PDX S2
<tdaitx> - satisfying my PDX coffee addiction by brewing Heart's roasted coffee
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1701268 in python-pysam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] python-pysam fails to build due to htslib update" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1701268
<Odd_Bloke> slangasek:
<slangasek>  * short week, off Mon/Tue for Independence Day
<slangasek>  * worked on security update coordination for CVE-2017-10600 in ubuntu-image
<ubottu> ** <A HREF="http://cve.mitre.org/about/faqs.html#reserved_signify_in_cve_id">RESERVED</A> ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2017-10600)
<slangasek>  * attempted to work on the nplan autopkgtest regression with new NM, failed because
<slangasek>  * handed off prelim 16.04.3 preview images for ppc64el to IBM for testing
<slangasek>  * hacking on britney to make its email notifications work to spec (LP: #1671468)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1671468 in britney "email policy sends email when package is REJECTED_TEMPORARILY" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1671468
<slangasek>  * miscellaneous +1 maintenance work (trying to clear the bottom of update_excuses)
<slangasek> (done)
<doko> infinity: see #debian-glibc, the tests run for me with glibc trunk
<infinity> doko: Fun.
<slangasek> no rbalint today
<slangasek> Tribaal:
<gaughen> no Tribaal today
<slangasek> also out today
<slangasek> sil2100:
<gaughen> he's here!
<sil2100> - SRU:
<sil2100>   * Reviews of new non-derivative kernel re-spin SRUs
<sil2100>   * Regular SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - gce-compute-image-packages:
<sil2100>   * Push on getting all the SRUs reviewed and accepted
<sil2100>   * Requesting testing
<sil2100> - walinuxagent:
<sil2100>   * Preparing and releasing the new wala 2.2.14
<sil2100>   * Trying to perform pre-SRU testing, one test-case invalid due to changes in azure, contacting MS
<sil2100>   * Thanks to Phil got test results of one of the test packages, uploaded the SRUs
<sil2100> - +1 maintenance:
<sil2100>   * Requesting removal of system-image
<sil2100>   * Looking into profanity FTBFS in artful, raised a new issue upstream with another failing test
<sil2100> - Preparing uvp-monitor for testing in a PPA, adding postinst to start the service after install
<sil2100> - Prepare a kernel-sru-review branch for supporting in-progress bugs, fixes per Steve's review
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Work on the ubuntu-image for classic spec
<sil2100>   * Reviewing and landing the fakeroot-usage branch
<sil2100>   * Much work, such wow on the proper ubuntu-image classic snap
<sil2100> - Started creating trello cards
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> ocaml transition
<xnox> s390x bugs
<xnox> srus for 16.04.3, with fixes for arm64 and s390x
<xnox> resolved/dns issues progress with design
<xnox> fixup WSL
<xnox> EOF
<xnox> #HIGHLIGHT WSL almost almost public
<slangasek> sil2100: ah, are there new changes on kernel-sru-review branch? I didn't see notifications for a re-review, can you drop me the mp link again?
<slangasek> oh and I have a highlight I forgot to list
<slangasek> highlight: skype Linux client previously in partner is EOLed and has been removed from partner, see upstream website for information https://www.skype.com/en/download-skype/skype-for-linux/ (LP: #1701746)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1701746 in skype (Ubuntu) "skype package out of date and unusable" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1701746
<sil2100> slangasek: the one with the in-progress stuff, link: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/ubuntu-archive-tools/in-progress-kernels/+merge/326584
<slangasek> and no cyphermox_ today
<sil2100> slangasek: the cache one I'll work tomorrow or next week, since I got swamped this week somehow ;p
<slangasek> sil2100: ok, thanks :)
<slangasek> infinity: this reminds me, can I get a review of https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubuntu-archive-tools/python3-process-removals-and-better-error-handling/+merge/325773 ?
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<gaughen> sil2100, what's the next step on the wala test case being invalid?
<sil2100> gaughen: it's all sorted, I asked philroche to do some tests on a PPA-based image and now I pushed that to the queues
<sil2100> Since the tests passed
<sil2100> So we're all unblocked
<gaughen> k, I was reading through the email thread and wasn't sure it was all sorted
<gaughen> slangasek, no more questions from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Incoming bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<slangasek> doesn't look like there are any new critical/high on that list
<gaughen> agreed.
<sil2100> DONE
<gaughen> I think we're done with this topic
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<gaughen> no
<sil2100> Please review my walinuxagent backport SRUs from the queue!
<sil2100> (all the queues actually)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  6 15:29:33 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-06-15.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
 * genii washes out the coffee mugs
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-02
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Anyone from the DMB team around? I guess we don't really have any candidates for today
<sil2100> I guess no meeting today then
<micahg> ok, bye then :)
<sil2100> I'll stay around in case there's someone wanting anything from us
<Laney> I want a cake
<Laney> and a kitten
<Laney> NOT combined together before someone says something horrible
<sil2100> Fear not, the DMB is here to help
<DalekSec> Laney: https://i.imgur.com/BJsJaVd.jpg we tried, but alas it didn't go too well.
<tsimonq2> Laney: I have a cake and a giraffe, is that good enough? :P
 * Laney screams
<sarnold> tsimonq2: hey can I borrow your giraffe sometime? :)
<tsimonq2> sarnold: After Laney's done with it. :D
 * sarnold puts his name next on The Giraffe List
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-05
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<philroche> \o
<fginther> o/
 * genii checks the fridge
<juliank> \o
<xnox> genii, not sure if this meeting is on the fridge ornot
<cyphermox> o.
<slangasek> it was previously :)
<tdaitx> o/
<genii> Seems to be 2 on there for this time
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  5 15:03:35 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<xnox> genii, never a conflict..... at least not in this channel. but there is also #ubuntu-meeting-2
<rbalint> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<slangasek> mwhudson sil2100 rbalint fginther slangasek Odd_Bloke philroche infinity doko bdmurray tdaitx rcj cyphermox xnox juliank
<slangasek> sil2100: hullo
<sil2100> Uh oh
<sil2100> I... won
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernels:
<sil2100>   * Released new kernels on Monday, 4.15 regression noted
<sil2100>   * Reviewed new point-release cycle kernels
<sil2100>   * Reviewed re-spins of the new cycle kernels with the regression fix
<sil2100> - partman:
<sil2100>   * Uploaded partman-efi and -auto SRUs to bionic
<sil2100>   * Removed leftover checks for ignore_uefi
<sil2100>   * Lots and lots of install tests for SRU verification on a kvm
<sil2100> - grub:
<sil2100>   * Uploaded grub and shim related SRUs to bionic
<sil2100>   * Performing validation of the SRUs (not fully complete yet)
<sil2100> - Sponsoring of some uploads (console-setup, livecd-rootfs)
<sil2100> - Looking into newly encountered ubuntu-image issues due to gadget.yaml spec additions
<sil2100> - Preparation for the next xenial langpack scheduled update
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * verified ebtables wsl fix on remaining releases
<rbalint> * many unattended-upgrades updates including speedup around 10x,
<rbalint>   one more change is being tested before 1.4
<rbalint> * updated gce-compute-image-packages
<rbalint> * things i can't talk about
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * livecd-rootfs SRU for adding pollinate to minimal images
<fginther> * livecd-rootfs SRUs for updating unminimize scripts
<fginther> * cloud images build system vanguard
<fginther> * updating 14.04 ppc64el image builds for maas
<fginther> (done)
<slangasek>  * short week, US holiday yesterday
<slangasek>  * trying to troubleshoot image build failures in cosmic; first debootstrap was broken, now apt is throwing exceptions?
<fginther> slangasek:
<slangasek>  * SRU reviews
<slangasek>  * NEW reviews
<slangasek>  * livecd-rootfs xenial sponsorship to get pollinate back into minimal images
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke:
<Odd_Bloke> * Short week
<Odd_Bloke> * Worked on following lp:simplestreams migration to git
<Odd_Bloke> * Various partner bits
<Odd_Bloke> * Preparation for the minimal image launch next week
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> philroche:
<philroche> * Minimal image preparation
<philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> infinity:
<slangasek> not here
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - working on random python3.7 fixes
<doko> - working half time this week
<doko> (done, sorry, didn't prepare the status)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> granted error tracker access to an evince developer and a DD
<bdmurray> fixed issues with mojo spec code revision, secret leaking, and a script location
<bdmurray> tested mojo spec production daisy, retracer units (good!)
<bdmurray> tested mojo spec production errors units (issue with LP integration)
<bdmurray> modified u-r-u deb2snap code to ask yes/no dialog re upgrade instead of aborting
<bdmurray> modified wording in u-r-u deb2snap code
<bdmurray> modified u-r-u deb2snap code to remove debs if snap is already installed
<bdmurray> integrated snap connectivity check into u-r-u deb2snap code
<bdmurray> reviewed a software-properties merge proposal
<bdmurray> discovered a screen locking bug after the upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 when testing LP: #1778817
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1778817 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "release upgrade from xenial to bionic desktop: screen locks itself, password to unlock fails" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778817
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> sorry, prepared my status in a hurry, ended up a bit verbose
<tdaitx> * JCK 8:
<tdaitx>   - xfwm got better results
<tdaitx>   - 20+ tests still need more than one run to pass
<tdaitx>   - some parts of the runtime JCK can be run without the reference implementation, thus might be possible to use that subset in a autopkgtest
<tdaitx>   - devtools and compiler still demand the reference implementation
<tdaitx>   - jck needs to be unpacked using the reference implementation (ongoing, not sure this will affect the test results)
<tdaitx> * Investigated the --release VS -source/-target issue reported on debian
<tdaitx>   - release does not expose OpenJDK internal API, thus packages that use those FTBFS
<tdaitx>   - source/target causes runtime compatibility problems, ie. packages build with openjdk 9+ can't be run on openjdk-8
<tdaitx>   - overall openjdk-9+ is not compatible with openjdk-8 software that rely on internals
<tdaitx>   - nobody should using the internal API, which is now a maintenance hell
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> * lxd 3 decides to bind and save my dynamic wifi ip into its database making the daemon inaccessible (not even lxd --init works), moving to the old ip works, still need to check the db files, reproduce and report the issue
<tdaitx> * cloud-init didn't work with images from lxc ubuntu: (user data was saved but never used/consumed, runcmd/bootcmd never ran, etc)
<tdaitx> * got a Xenial armhf image up and running to test openjdk-7 + eclipse on Trusty, but setup and install still takes quite some time (and for whatever reason apt sources.list gets rewritten on reboot, gah)
<tdaitx> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * Various cloud partner work
<rcj> * Cloud image cleanup
<rcj> * (off yesterday)
<xnox> cyphermox, ?
<slangasek> tdaitx: what packages are affected by the internal API break?
<cyphermox> I wasn't sure if rcj was done
<cyphermox> - monday was off
<cyphermox> - MIR reviews
<cyphermox> - SRUs:
<cyphermox>  - finishing trusty's shim
<cyphermox>  - verify update-manager (artful)
<cyphermox>  - verifying initramfs-tools (xenial, artful, bionic)
<cyphermox> - investigate UEFI booting failure due to path case on some firmwares
<cyphermox> - finishing upstream work on MokManager timeouts
<cyphermox> - netplan ipv4 link-local support
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> * Working on subiquity:
<xnox>   - added network interface UI screen
<xnox>   - fix up flake8 of the vlan screen
<xnox>   - working on fixing focus bug
<xnox>   - working on bonds UI
<xnox> * boost1.67 is in debian NEW queue
<xnox> * uploaded new qclib
<xnox> * working on fixing systemd adt fail in cosmic
<xnox> * I'm offline next week through 16th of july
<xnox> Done
<rcj> (done)
<slangasek> juliank:
<tdaitx> slangasek: I don't have a list at hand, but quite a lot broke when debian made the change to ant (they didn't even do maven or gradle)
<slangasek> hmm
<juliank> * SRU update-manager/bionic for bug 1771914, yet to verify
<ubottu> bug 1771914 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "release-upgrade-motd can't update message via apt proxy" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771914
<juliank> * SRU {amd64,intel}-microcode/{bionic,artful,xenial,trusty} for bug 1778738, yet to verify
<ubottu> bug 1778738 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu Bionic) "Default to early instead of auto when MODULES=most" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778738
<juliank> * some apt bug triage
<juliank> * preparing python-apt SRU for xenial for bug 1773316 (well, title needs fixing for that, slightly different instance)
<ubottu> bug 1773316 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "Object of different cache passed as argument to apt_pkg.DepCache method" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773316
<juliank> * while doing that, found I introduced a regression (bug 1780099), needs bionic+cosmic updates
<ubottu> bug 1780099 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "Cache remapping breaks hashing of Package objects" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780099
<juliank> * working on PackageKit socket-activated debconf integration (bug 1726068, https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/issues/257); plan to ship debconf socket unit and helper service in packagekit and make aptdaemon use that one too
<ubottu> bug 1726068 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "debconf socket closes if aptdaemon/PK client exits" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1726068
<juliank> (done)
<tdaitx> slangasek: base64 and Unsafe are internal classes that folks used quite a lot
<slangasek> any other questions on status?
<slangasek> xnox: did you see my follow-up comment on LP: #1779685?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1779685 in mdadm (Ubuntu Bionic) "[18.04.1] Backport support for Intel VROC arrays in mdadm" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779685
<tdaitx> and some of the internal ones have no exact replacement (sun.misc.Unsafe being the most important/used one)
<juliank> oh
 * juliank also reviewed https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/pull/253
<xnox> slangasek, yes, to reply still.
<slangasek> xnox: ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> I don't have anything new for today.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> what are schedules like for the next weeks?
<cyphermox> I mean, who's here and who's not?
<cyphermox> given that there are vacations and all
<slangasek> week after next is Montreal sprint for some of us
<rbalint> i'm here till debcamp
<bdmurray> I'm out the 13th and part of the 12th.
<juliank> I'm here all of the next 2 weeks
<sil2100> I'm here always
<sil2100> ...always
<doko> transition status? I assume nobody is working on that explicitly until the debian import freeze ...
<bdmurray> forever?
<cyphermox> sil2100: always?
<slangasek> doko: oh, well, I currently have autoimports disabled by discussion yesterday (or was it Tuesday?) on #ubuntu-release
<doko> ahh, I didn't follow irc that closely
<doko> I'll look over autopkg test failures and give those back which should succeed with all-proposed=1
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> alright, if there's nothing else...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  5 15:28:43 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-05-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<sil2100> Thanks slangasek !
<sil2100> cyphermox: j/k of course!
<Wimpress> o/
<Wimpress> Anyone from the CC joining?
<wxl> i haven't heard anyone from anything about that, Wimpress, except for myself and ahoneybun occassionally asking what is going on
<wxl> (in some time)
<wxl> that said, you might want to join #u-cc and we discuss further there
<Wimpress> I was kicked from that channel and unable to rejoin.
<wxl> ask cs for an invite and see if that doesn't help
<wxl> oh i think i see the problem. nick change.
<wxl> no that's not it
<wxl> that's not it, either
<wxl> just ask for an invite and it should just work
<jose> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-08
<slermy63> This channel is closed for maintenance.
<slermy63> You must only remain if you are one of my employees
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-01
<slashd> o/
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> (still 3 minutes to go)
<slashd> I can chair today
<sil2100> slashd: ok, let me DMB ping
<sil2100> I see we have someone on the agenda today actually, didn't expect that
<slashd> cyphermox, it's an holiday here, I suspect cypherox might not join
<slashd> sil2100, ^
<sil2100> slashd: ok o/
<slashd> sil2100, yeah he is in APAC, so it 00:00 for him right, now, if we can't vote today, would be nice to either do a APAC special dmb mtg or let the vote go through email
<slashd> to accomodate seyeong
<sil2100> slashd: sounds like a plan, guess I liked the email questions + IRC meeting vote idea
<tsimonq2> Hi, sorry I'm late.
<slashd> o/ tsimonq2
<slashd> only one missing to have the quorum
 * tsimonq2 grabs some coffee, brb
<tsimonq2> (rbasak?)
<cyphermox> o/
<slashd> o/ cyphermox
<slashd> I think we have quorum now
<slashd> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  1 15:07:49 2019 UTC.  The chair is slashd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<slashd> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<slashd> #topic sil2100 to check with Rosco2 that ubuntustudio packageset upload permission changes are all complete
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: sil2100 to check with Rosco2 that ubuntustudio packageset upload permission changes are all complete
<sil2100> slashd: can we carry that over? I'm sure there's nothing here
<sil2100> But I didn't check yet
<slashd> ok
<slashd> the rest of the list seems to all be marked as done
<slashd> for teward and ddstreet application
<slashd> so I guess we can move on to Seyeong
<teward> confirmed mine works
<teward> i've been uploading things on behalf of Studio recently (they nagged me >.<)
<slashd> teward, tks
<slashd> We have 1 applicant today, Seyeong Kim (xtrusia)
<teward> (just so you CAN mark it as done with confirms)
<slashd> seyeongkim, can you introduce yourself ?
<teward> slashd: #topic change?  (i'm picky I know)
<teward> *returns to lurking*
<seyeongkim> Hello, I'm seyeong kim, Sustaining Engineering based on South Korea,
<slashd> #topic Seyeong Kim (xtrusia) contribution developer application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Seyeong Kim (xtrusia) contribution developer application
<tsimonq2> Could you please provide a link to your application for reference?
<seyeongkim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/xtrusia/contributingdeveloper
<seyeongkim> sure
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
 * sil2100 is reading the application
<cyphermox> no questions here.
<tsimonq2> None here.
<slashd> I have no questions either, I know Seyeong very well being part of my team.
<slashd> sil2100 ?
<slashd> sil2100 still reading ?
<sil2100> I think I'm good to vote now ;)
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: Seyeong Kim (xtrusia) Contributing Developer application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: Seyeong Kim (xtrusia) Contributing Developer application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<slashd> #voterequired 4
<sil2100> +1 (I've seen quite a lot of seyeongkim's SRU work and I was happy with it - keep up the good work!)
<meetingology> +1 (I've seen quite a lot of seyeongkim's SRU work and I was happy with it - keep up the good work!) received from sil2100
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> slashd?
<slashd> +1 I've been witnessing of a lot of work in various area : kernel, cloud, userspace.
<meetingology> +1 I've been witnessing of a lot of work in various area : kernel, cloud, userspace. received from slashd
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: Seyeong Kim (xtrusia) Contributing Developer application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<tsimonq2> Congratulations!
<slashd> Congrats seyeongkim !
<seyeongkim> Thanks a lot
<cyphermox> ì¶íí´ì!
<seyeongkim> ê°ì¬í©ëë¤
<cyphermox> hopefully that's correct, I haven't done much Korean in a long long while :)
<seyeongkim> cyphermox: yeah that is correct :)
<slashd> anything else ? Are we good to end the mtg ?
<slashd> seyeongkim, thanks for joining late
<tsimonq2> slashd: Change the topic to AOB?
<tsimonq2> I have something related.
<tsimonq2> #topic AOB
<tsimonq2> hm
<slashd> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: AOB
<tsimonq2> I started an "Ubuntu Developer Office Hours" initiative and I'd encourage DMB members to sign up: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-June/040751.html
<tsimonq2> I already have cyphermox down (for last week), it'd be cool to get more.
<slashd> btw, I'm going to take care of doing the change in Launchpad for Seyeong
<tsimonq2> That's related to both my agenda item and working with potential applicants to gauge their work in the community.
<tsimonq2> So not strictly DMB related, but beneficial.
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: I thought we were talking about every week
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: I'll make that change real quick then :)
<cyphermox> ahah cool :)
<slashd> tsimonq2, anything else ?
<tsimonq2> Oh, nope. Everyone should really really go sign up, that's it. ;)
<slashd> tsimonq2, ack
<slashd> sil2100, cyphermox anything else on your side before we end the mtg ?
<cyphermox> nop
<sil2100> No, I think we're good
<slashd> cyphermox, tsimonq2, cyphermox thanks guys
<slashd> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  1 15:42:07 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-07-01-15.07.moin.txt
<tsimonq2> Thanks
<sil2100> Thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-02
 * cpaelzer lights a fire for doko cyphermox didrocks jdstrand and jamespage to be ready in 5 min
 * doko is preparing a coffee ...
<jamespage> o/
 * jamespage runs for tea
<cpaelzer> lets ping everyone again and then get this started
<cpaelzer> MIR-ping: doko cyphermox didrocks jdstrand jamespage
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul  2 13:06:34 2019 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> no former actions from last week, or do I miss any that you know of?
<cpaelzer> ok time to check new MIRs
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> as of a minute ago this list had one entry
<cpaelzer> but that was just a security ack with a bad status
<cpaelzer> I fixed it up
<cpaelzer> nothing else in the list
<didrocks> \o/
<cpaelzer> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey cpaelzer :)
<cpaelzer> I revieed one myself last week and since the list is empty it seems you got whatever else came up as well
<cpaelzer> any other NEW MIRs active or incoming that we should know of?
<didrocks> nothing special. I'll have one, but it's scheduled for August, so we have time
<cyphermox> o/
<cpaelzer> hi cyphermox
<cyphermox> sorry, I was in deep hack mode
<cpaelzer> sure - we all know "the zone" welcome cyphermox
<cpaelzer> nothing new to distribute among us then
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> last update on this list was 14th of June for openjpeg2
<cpaelzer> nothing really new
<cpaelzer> anything on this list one of you wants to discuss?
<doko> no
<didrocks> nothing either
<cpaelzer> ok - that seems like none overall - at least have one topic for the next section :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: 3 weeks agoyou were so kind to take https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/probert/+bug/1830347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1830347 in probert (Ubuntu) "[MIR] probert as dependency of curtin" [Undecided,In progress]
<cpaelzer> since then it is assigned to you
<cpaelzer> I'm assuming you got swamped by other things
<cpaelzer> but begging your pardon I wanted to poll on an update on this ?
<cpaelzer> ... cyphermox seems to be fallen into hack-mode again ? ... oO
<doko> are we finished?
<cpaelzer> well I waited for cyphermox to answer
<cpaelzer> but he can give his answer later, I'm just relying on geting any status update on it
<cpaelzer> doko: I think we can close the meering
<cpaelzer> umm, meeting
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: pelase answer late ronce available
<cpaelzer> it seems random character movement day for me again :-/
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul  2 13:21:41 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-07-02-13.06.moin.txt
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: I'll have it done today
<cpaelzer> thanks cyphermox
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-04
<rbalint> o/
<waveform> o/
<waveform> I think I'm chairing this week (handy as the yanks are off celebrating a bad Jeff Goldblum movie or something)
<tdaitx> o/
<juliank> o/
<waveform> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  4 15:03:19 2019 UTC.  The chair is waveform. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<waveform> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<waveform> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<waveform> tdaitx xnox vorlon doko bdmurray rbalint sil2100 mwhudson cyphermox infinity juliank waveform
 * tdaitx wins!
<tdaitx> * snapping openjdk-11-ri and jck
<tdaitx>   - multijvm and singlejvm tests
<tdaitx>   - separate snap for exclusion list
<tdaitx>   - jti templates for non-agent runs
<tdaitx> (done)
<xnox> * UC20 sprint followup and planning
<waveform> heh, not rigged in the slightest :)
<xnox> * Further updates to the ubuntu-core-initramfs
<juliank> waveform cheated
<xnox> * Assisting with apache / openssl 1.1.1 regressions
<xnox> * Assisting with secureboot toleration in qemu
<xnox> * Merged/promoted to 19.10 subiquity with existing partitions UI
<xnox> * Filed existing partitions bugs
<xnox> * Uploaded subiquity with langpack translation support into ubuntu
<xnox> * Uploaded libp11 with EC key support LP: #1830730
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1830730 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] Upgrade libp11 >= 0.4.10" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1830730
<xnox> * Uploaded casper with nfsroot support (release-regression)
<xnox> * Trying to get kernel to migrate in eoan, needs easy hint I think for
<xnox>   linux linux-signed linux-restricted-modules debian-installer
<xnox> * Playing with testflinger machines, failing at CM3 raspi
<xnox> Done
<xnox> vorlon:  your turn!
<doko> isn't that Mars invasion day today in the US?
<cyphermox> US people are probably not around, it's July 4th.
<juliank> rather doko's turn
<doko> - fixed binutils packages
<doko> - side tracked by GCC optimization work, trying to build GCC with LTO+PGO itself.  Running into buildd constraints
<doko> - dwz update, triggered by the GCC work.  Having some regressions as well, fun ...
<doko> - GCC 9 transition should be on track for next week
<doko> - Python 3.7.4 rc2 packages, although not fixing our current sphinx issue.
<doko> - more weekly OpenJDK builds
<doko> (done)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * reproduced LP: #1818596 and redirected submitter to file a WSL issue because it worked on WSL2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818596 in ksh (Ubuntu) "Inbuilt KORN Arithmetic & Test functions broken under Windows Subsystem for Linux " [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818596
<rbalint> * verified LP: #1771858 sru
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771858 in snapd (Ubuntu) "/snap/bin not in default PATH for units, snapd should ship system-environment-generators to inject /snap/bin into $PATH" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771858
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * various discussions
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades reviews
<rbalint> (done)
<rbalint> oh, wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL, too
<xnox> doko:  what is dwz?
<xnox> rbalint++ on snap/bin work
<xnox> doko:  dwarf stuff? i think that sounds right.
<doko> dwarf compressor, enabled by default in debhelper v12
<juliank> sil2100 is away
<cyphermox> short week (July 1 is Canada Day)
<cyphermox> mostly just grub, and figuring out what's up with the ftbfs on eoan with objcopy.
<cyphermox> (done)
<juliank> infinity is not in here, so me
<juliank>  * Initial work on updating secure boot db on boot, still needs some polishing (LP: #1791370)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1791370 in secureboot-db (Ubuntu) "update database on each boot, not just on package install" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1791370
<juliank>  * Fighting with aptdaemon/xenial's test suite, and winning (frontend locking coming to xenial, woohoo!)
<juliank>  * Syncing lz4 and libapt-pkg-perl
<juliank>  * Pondering about some things, and writing it down
<juliank>  * Happy to announce that dpkg 1.19.7 seems to be fixing issues with trigger cycles, time to start backporting
<juliank>  * Happy to announce that my APT talk  @ DebConf will be Monday, Jul 22 @ 14:00 UTC-3
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> waveform:
<waveform> * Experimented with boot on the Pi4 (largely unsuccessfully thus far - nothing from u-boot); new firmware also seems to break existing u-boot on earlier pi models too
<waveform> * Responded to comments on pi image building document
<waveform> * Writing proposal for split bluetooth/non-bluetooth core images
<waveform> * Attempted to merge core and classic bootscripts, but the A/B support in core is tricky to integrate with classic; will SRU existing eoan flash-kernel to bionic/disco first and merge afterward
<waveform> * Discussed open-iscsi changes (decision: SRU to bionic/disco for non-degraded boot state on pi)
<waveform> (done)
<waveform> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<waveform> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
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<cyphermox> we're not quite quorate to deal with this
<cyphermox> (I think)
<juliank> defer to next week
<waveform> okay, I assume we're skipping bionic bugs too then?
<cyphermox> probably, yeah
<cyphermox> well
<juliank> yes please
<cyphermox> tzdata seems like an obvious one
<juliank> there's only the tzdata one
<waveform> okay, migration then?
<juliank> we should card that
<juliank> I'll card it
<cyphermox> yeah. migration
<waveform> okay
<waveform> #topic Team proposed-migration report
<waveform> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<juliank> ok already carded
<cyphermox> oh lots of stuff
<juliank> looks fine to me, lot's of candidates on there
<juliank> json-c transition blocking some stuff
<doko> did you look at update_output.txt?
<doko> looks like syslog-ng becomes uninstallable
<rbalint> taking python-reportlab
<waveform> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for next meeting
<waveform> randomizer lands on vorlon to chair next week!
<waveform> and rbalint if vorlon can't make it
<waveform> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<waveform> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  4 15:30:34 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-07-04-15.03.moin.txt
<rbalint> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-06-29
<slashd> o/
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> I guess we don't have any applications today?
<slashd> doesn't seems like it
<ddstreet> o/
<ddstreet> yeah just action items for rafaeldtinoco
<ddstreet> guess we could skip the mtg
<rafaeldtinoco> Ill have to postpone those
<rafaeldtinoco> did not have time this last 2 weeks
<rafaeldtinoco> (fyio)
<rbasak> o/
<ddstreet> i think you are up to chair rbasak, if we're having a short mtg today?
<rbasak> I'm in a concurrent meeting.
<rbasak> Would someone else mind please?
<ddstreet> slashd you're next on the list, want to do a quick run-thru?
<rbasak> (Rafael is also in this other meeting as is the usual)
<ddstreet> seems it would just be rescheduling all action items
<ddstreet> slashd or i could run thru the mtg, you're on pto aren't you?
<ddstreet> ok i'll run thru quickly
<ddstreet> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 29 15:11:27 2020 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> I don't think we need to even formally start the meeting in such cases
<sil2100> But I guess it doesn't hurt
<ddstreet> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<ddstreet> i'm just gonna paste all the action items in, then re-action them, just for bookkeeping
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from DMB KB page when reading ddstreet updates
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps)
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team)
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab)
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco link teamdelegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from DMB KB page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from DMB KB page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped (carried over)
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps) (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps) (carried over)
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team) (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team) (carried over)
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab) (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab) (carried over)
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco link teamdelegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco link teamdelegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<ddstreet> and that's it, no other items for any other topic
<ddstreet> last call for AOB?
<ddstreet> 5
<ddstreet> 4
<ddstreet> 3
<ddstreet> 2
<ddstreet> 1
<rafaeldtinoco> lol
<ddstreet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 29 15:14:42 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-06-29-15.11.moin.txt
<ddstreet> that was quick :)
<rafaeldtinoco> i thought I had less stuff
<rafaeldtinoco> from my last meeitng
<rafaeldtinoco> ah ok i remember them all
<ddstreet> i think most of that is really just 'seed/packageset tooling'
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: thanks and sorry for not catching up this week
<rafaeldtinoco> will do for the next one
<slashd> rafaeldtinoco: let me know if I can offload you
<ddstreet> no prob
<rafaeldtinoco> slashd: yep, ill organize my todos this week and will let u know if needed
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks!
<slashd> rafaeldtinoco: sound like a plan
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-06-30
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: jamespage: sarnold: didrocks: doko: ping for MIR meeting soon
<cpaelzer> I think didrocks and doko are out atm
<seb128> I can confirm that didrocks is out
<cpaelzer> ok let us get this started, I hope anyone else responds :-)
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 30 14:30:46 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> out of the processing of a fonts MIR I took the action to clarify if there is a formal statement
<cpaelzer> turned out this was an unwritten agreement by the archive admins
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> after clarifying with vorlon I was putting it into a written statement on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess?action=show&redirect=MIRTeam#Font_Packages
<ddstreet> o/
<cpaelzer> Are there any objections to this section?
<sarnold> it's a bit vague, but probably archive admin / mir team folks would know what those assumptions are
<cpaelzer> yeah I didn't want to make a new book out of it, and a good portion of it is copied from the mail thread with vorlon
<cpaelzer> the question is more like "do you think it will cause trouble" more than "improve the wording" - the latter everone can do on his own :-)
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: are you ok as well?
<ddstreet> yep sounds ok
<cpaelzer> we are not toomany people today so I'd like to see an "ok" from both of you
<cpaelzer> thanks
<cpaelzer> I'll remove the --draft-- block
<cpaelzer> done
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> today there are a few mroe things
<cpaelzer> more
<cpaelzer> xxhash was resolved between desktop and foundations
<cpaelzer> seb128: was so kind to join (replacing dodk's AA powers)
<cpaelzer> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/teckit/+bug/1803230 can be promoted to main in groovy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803230 in xxhash (Ubuntu) "[MIR] teckit & xxhash, new rdeps of texlive-bin" [High,In progress]
<cpaelzer> would you be so kind to do that?
<cpaelzer> I'm going on in component mismatches - qemu->liburing I have completed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liburing/+bug/1878006 for
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878006 in liburing (Ubuntu) "MIR: liburing" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> cpaelzer, k
<cpaelzer> this will need  a security review @sarnold
<cpaelzer> but it is really really really small
<cpaelzer> hopefully that means it might go rather fast, but you'll let us know once the team planned it I guess
<cpaelzer> next mismatch is lintian -> libdata-validate-domain-perl, doko wanted to look for that but he isn't here - so let us skip that this week
<cpaelzer> and the final mismatch that is not a usual-suspect is devscripts -> pristine-tar
<cpaelzer> that is part of a recent merge, I asked kanashiro of the current +1 duty to take a look - we need to revert a change that got in with that recent merge
<cpaelzer> no one wants to promote pristine-tar and all dependencies
<cpaelzer> that would be proposed mismatches from my POV, and comments / additions ?
<cpaelzer> no?
<sarnold> I cant recall, did we discuss the node-jquery self-referential loop?
<sarnold> in -proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> not that I'd remember
<cpaelzer>  node-jquery | 3.5.1+dfsg-4 | groovy-proposed/universe | source, all
<cpaelzer> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html
<cpaelzer> there are more details there
<cpaelzer> seems to be
<cpaelzer> [Reverse-Depends: libjs-jquery (MAIN)]
<cpaelzer> that is src:jquery
<cpaelzer> yeah that came in with 3.5.1+dfsg-4
<cpaelzer> sarnold: I think that binary moved between sources
<cpaelzer> Package: libjs-jquery
<cpaelzer> Version: 3.5.1+dfsg-4
<cpaelzer> Source: node-jquery
<cpaelzer> Package: libjs-jquery
<cpaelzer> Version: 3.3.1~dfsg-3
<cpaelzer> Source: jquery
<cpaelzer> the revdep list of libjs-jquery is gigantic
<cpaelzer> does anyone recognize (or remember) for which use-case it was added?
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jquery/+bug/308911
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308911 in sphinx (Ubuntu) "MIR for python2.6/3.0 build dependencies" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jquery/+bug/1513536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1513536 in jquery (Ubuntu) "[MIR] nodejs?" [Low,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> this would be foundations task to look for
<cpaelzer> but without doko here we need to postpone that
<cpaelzer> mclemenceau: ^^ or could you ask in the team for someone to look after the component mismatches of jquery due to what seems to be a move between different srouce packages?
<cpaelzer> mclemenceau: can come back to us at any time, I'll go on with the meeting so we can make it in time
<cpaelzer> thanks sarnold for bringing this one up
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> two OEM cases that have a special-case-excuse and the known jeepney for jamespage
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> this category has more today
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libubootenv/+bug/1885142
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1885142 in libubootenv (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libubootenv-tool, libubootenv0.1" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> I've processed that last week
<cpaelzer> once waveform has resolved the few things I wanted it can be promoted - until then incomplete
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nacl/+bug/1885283
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1885283 in nacl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] nacl" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> I handled that as well and seb128 will look into changing to the sodium package already in main
<cpaelzer> those were FYI, nothing to discuss in this category
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> It might be worth to mention that I'm off next and in three weeks
<cpaelzer> so someone else will do the meeting chairing
<cpaelzer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess?action=show&redirect=MIRTeam#MIR_Team_weekly_status_meeting will be your friend
<seb128> cpaelzer, I already got a reply from upstream (which pointed out that x25519 curve implementation should be already enabled if building openssl)
<cpaelzer> interesting
<cpaelzer> mclemenceau: you can get in touch with me at any time later (not waiting with the end-of-meeting)
<cpaelzer> I'm not in special numbers mood today, lets count up negative numbers to zero
<cpaelzer> -5
<cpaelzer> -4
<cpaelzer> -3
<cpaelzer> -2
<cpaelzer> -1
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 30 14:53:41 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-06-30-14.30.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thnkas everyone
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
<ddstreet> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-02
<luna_> Is there an Ubuntu translators meeting today or is that still not a thing anymore?
<luna_> will be decided in 27 minutes if there is a translators meeting today or not
<luna_> moved too next week instead
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> o/
<slyon> o/
<waveform> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  2 15:00:59 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
 * juliank has not prepared status notes yet :/
<bdmurray> bdmurray vorlon sil2100 tdaitx infinity waveform xnox rbalint mwhudson juliank doko slyon
<bdmurray> +1 maintenance
<bdmurray> added scipy to big_packages in autopkgtest & sent email regarding it
<bdmurray> uploaded mercurial to skip a test as it is flaky
<bdmurray> forwarded the "patch" to debian bug 956697
<ubottu> Debian bug 956697 in src:mercurial "mercurial: flaky autopkgtests" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/956697
<bdmurray> started a discussion regarding libcpupower-dev package
<bdmurray> after struggling to sort out u-r-u autopkgtest failure got help from xnox (thanks!)
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for LP: #1874953, uploaded SRU of less for 20.04 LTS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1874953 in dpkg (Debian) "dpkg: conffile difference visualizer subprocess returned error exit status 127" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874953
<bdmurray> special SRU reviews of software-properties, casper, python-oslo.policy
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> vorlon: ?
<vorlon> bdmurray: skip for the moment please
<sil2100> Oh, so me?
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - +1 maintenance on Monday/Tuesday
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Reviewing the NetworkManager netplan rw plugin
<sil2100>   * Reviewing OVS-fixes PR from Lukas
<sil2100>   * Writing a quick PR for fake VLAN bridge support
<sil2100>   * Refreshing the netplan OVS test packages with latest changes
<sil2100>   * Some thinking about SR-IOV improvements, almost finished changes for PR
<sil2100>   * Discussing uc20 required improvements with the snapd team
<sil2100> - Looked into why core18 landed in manual review
<sil2100> - Investigated core18 snaps not getting auto-promoted to subsequent channels
<sil2100>   * Refreshed credentials with a fresh token
<sil2100> - Poking around on feedback re: cdimage appliance images
<sil2100> - Point-release coordination
<sil2100> - Misc AA work
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx_> * short week: out Thu and Fri
<tdaitx_> * Packaged openjdk 8u262-b07 and 11.0.8-b08
<tdaitx_>   - failed to run tests on Groovy due to newer jtreg (autopkgtests on groovy were also affected)
<tdaitx_>   - autopkgtest scripts are failing to run jtdiff
<tdaitx_> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Short week (fri/mon off for long weekend working on piwheels migration)
<waveform> * Addressed comments on libubootenv MIR (LP: #1885142)
<waveform> * Prepped SRU for flash-kernel (LP: #1868071)
<waveform> * Worked on various boot scenarios for Ubuntu on Pi (experimenting with USB/net boot with u-boot removed)
<waveform> * Tested beta firmwares with rpi-eeprom tools on Ubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1885142 in libubootenv (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libubootenv-tool, libubootenv0.1" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1885142
<waveform> * Lots of pi forum posts
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868071 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] flash-kernel needs to support 'raspi' kernel flavors" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868071
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> Prep for midcycle
<xnox> Worked on libnettle transition & haskell
<xnox> Working on riscv atomics / bootstrapping things
<xnox> All cd-boot-images have landed hooray!
<xnox> Gathering feedback about iso testing test cases
<xnox> Reviewing grub stuff
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> (very short week)
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * systemd bug gardening
<rbalint> * +1 maintenance (ongoing)
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> * digged around in the apt method and fixed some http things (https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/merge_requests/122)
<juliank> * found out that the pstate governor changed in groovy to performance when it should be powersave
<juliank> * then found out that playing music over USB DAC gets CPU stuck in C2 and keeps fan spinning (frequency jumps between 1 GHz and 3 GHz)
<juliank> * finished bileto uploads of fixed grub uploads for xenial and bionic, still need to test them in a VM (focal/groovy was tested on live system ;))
<juliank> * testing newer kernels
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> doko:
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * short week this week due to US holiday on Friday
<vorlon>  * some SRU team work last Friday
<vorlon>  * closed out with Alberto the fixes to nvidia packaging so that archive skew will never again cause the dkms package to be installed instead of the signed kernel modules
<vorlon>  * working on haskell transition
<vorlon>  * additional debian-cd reviews; the latest ubuntu-server live image has now been built without using any debian-installer bootloader bits from the archive
<vorlon>  * work on making ubuntu-archive-tools compatible with the new rebased britney that's coming soon
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> - Setup 32bit CI testing for badger
<slyon>   * Merged via https://github.com/dgraph-io/badger/pull/1392
<slyon>   * They commited to fix the bugs: https://github.com/dgraph-io/badger/issues/1397
<slyon> - Fixed fonts-font-awesome links in streamlink & python-mkdocs
<slyon>   * Both merged in Debian Salsa, awaiting upload/sponsorship
<slyon>   * https://salsa.debian.org/amurzeau/streamlink/-/merge_requests/1
<slyon>   * https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/modules/python-mkdocs/-/merge_requests/2
<slyon> - Prepared IWD vs WPA Supplicant evaluation document
<slyon> === Netplan ===
<slyon> - Fixed build on ppc64el
<slyon> - Reviewed Lukasz' OVS fake VLAN bridges PR#148
<slyon>   * Added integration tests for OVS fake VLAN bridges
<slyon> - Reviewed & Merged simple community PR#150 (inconsistent indentation)
<slyon> - Started arguing with upstream about the NM settings plugin RFC
<slyon>   * gitlab.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/-/merge_requests/556
<slyon>   * Prepared plugin test plan document for the Desktop team
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> any questions on status?
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1885414
<ubottu> bug 1885414 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity: bootloader failed on /dev/vda" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1885414
<xnox> i wonder if i should take it, or maybe mwhudson?
<bdmurray> supposedly mwhudson already fixed it?
<xnox> cause i wonder if we are now discovering bugs because we are installing bootloaders to the right place, yet it doesn't have enough gap for it.
<xnox> i guess is should review / upload / fix?
<bdmurray> we'll target adn card it
<bdmurray> that dbus bug is desktop
<bdmurray> bug 1880258
<ubottu> bug 1880258 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Add trailing dot to make connectivity-check.ubuntu.com. absolute and reduce NXDOMAIN warning noise" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880258
<vorlon> sounds like the remaining systemd task should be considered low-priority
<bdmurray> bug 1885730
<vorlon> but the nm one we think should be targeted to focal
<ubottu> bug 1885730 in linux (Ubuntu) "Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1885730
<juliank> needs discussion w/ kernel team
<bdmurray> so that seems worth tracking still
<rbalint> agreed
<bdmurray> let's card it
<mclemenceau> ok
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1871641 we need to summon the desktop team by commenting on it
<ubottu> bug 1871641 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu never finishes booting: A start job is running for Hold until boot process finishes up (3min 7s / no limit) -- removing 'splash' kernel parm fixes it" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871641
<bdmurray> bug 1875918
<ubottu> bug 1875918 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "openjdk crash: jdk11+eclipse+jformdesigner" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875918
<bdmurray> tdaitx: are you looking into this?
<tdaitx> bdmurray: yeah, on my list
<bdmurray> tdaitx: should we have a card for it?
<tdaitx> bdmurray: that would help to keep it on track
<mclemenceau> you got it
<bdmurray> vorlon: last week you said we should revisit the isc-dhcp bugs
<vorlon> did I? trying to swap in context
<bdmurray> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2020/06/25/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<bdmurray> also "somehow we share isc-dhcp with security team, not server :)"
<vorlon> ah I said we should punt them
<vorlon> :)
<vorlon> I meant to punt them farther down the field, where we wouldn't have to touch them for a while
<vorlon> ;-P
<bdmurray> should we get the server team subscribed though?
<xnox> isc-dhcp => i'm ok with foundations taking care of client, but not server.
<xnox> and we should put networkd into intird, and stop using isc-dhcp =)
<vorlon> true, the server is seeded in server-ship
<vorlon> (which... is a seed that needs to go away)
<xnox> and client is like in standard?
<vorlon> yeah
<xnox> right
<bdmurray> bug 1883229
<ubottu> bug 1883229 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu server installation on S3260M4 server gets failed " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883229
<vorlon> looks like this needs to be reassigned to subiquity
<vorlon> and taken
<bdmurray> bug 1865515
<ubottu> bug 1865515 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "Chainbooting from grub over the network to local shim breaks chain of trust" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865515
<bdmurray> I forget where we ended up with this
<bdmurray> this is already carded
<bdmurray> so targetting it
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> python-secretstorage, still waiting on MIR, nothing to do
<vorlon> vim, still with me, this is the riscv64 build failure that I haven't had time to work on (it's a rather big time investment)
<vorlon> fonts-font-awesome: slyon: I believe this was yours last week, have you looked at it?
<rbalint> vorlon, can we remove the binary still then?
<vorlon> rbalint: for vim? not without breaking the world
<rbalint> vorlon, in risc?
<vorlon> yes
<rbalint> :-\
<slyon> fonts-font-awesome fixes are awaiting Debian upload
<bdmurray> I uploaded a new version of mercurial yesterday
<vorlon> rbalint: is something else blocked waiting on new vim?  otherwise, the priority here is to not break the new port
<vorlon> bdmurray: thanks
<vorlon> looks like all the other stuff from last week that was assigned has been resolved, which is great
<rbalint> vorlon, ack
<vorlon> pcre3, apache2 autopkgtest regression, flaky on armhf, I'll handle
<juliank> make-dfsg is still broken, but upload superseded
<vorlon> libio-async-loop-epoll-perl breaks lintian: bdmurray can you take this?
<vorlon> sqlite3: various autopkgtest regressions (including python3.8).  sil2100 can you take?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> ACK
<bdmurray> vorlon: sure
<sil2100> (carding)
<vorlon> d-i is handled by xnox
<vorlon> rsync also has autopkgtest regressions but these look like false positives etc, I'll take
<vorlon> libio-async-perl is a candidate that makes kdesdk uninstallable, so that needs follow-up
<vorlon> waveform: ^^ can you take?
<waveform> vorlon, will do
 * juliank runs out for a sec
<vorlon> lintian needs an MIR for libdata-validate-domain-perl: rbalint?
<rbalint> vorlon,sure, taking
<vorlon> and xz-utils needs some autopkgtest wrangling.  juliank can you take?
<vorlon> and that's the last one
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> Tomorrow is a US holiday
<bdmurray> I'll be out
<mclemenceau> same here \o/
<bdmurray> anything else?
<vorlon> not here
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul  2 15:50:08 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-02-15.00.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks :)
<slyon> o/
<sil2100> Thank you o/
<rbalint> o/
<juliank> o/
