#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-15
<madnick> :)
 * madnick is sad
<madnick> we could really position the session selection anywhere, but the problem is: it does not look good with it being a button
<madnick> is libsession unity specific?
 * micahg isn't familiar with a libsession
<madnick> micahg: i *think* its an indicator
<madnick> And if we miss that one, I guess its sort of a deal breaker to use the unity greeter :(
<madnick> We got libsound
<micahg> ah, yeah, indicator-session provides it
<madnick> ah
<madnick> tbh, the best greeter would be a plain simple "username" "password" :D
<micahg> +1 :)
<madnick> Don't think most people agree however
<madnick> Wonderful, wrong terminal, outside of virtualbox :)
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/session.png
<madnick> Droid Sans + Select Session (need to do something about that), the indicators
<madnick> I need to think about this deeply :/
<micahg> madnick: nice
<madnick> hm, cannot run -test-mode of lightdm in a VM :\
<madnick> could anyone help me with some packaging?
<GridCube> :( sorry i cant
<madnick> I made a package ~2006 :P I guess I *could* make a simple package, but I wouldnt trust it being correct enough :(
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit ?
<knome> (hey madnick & GridCube)
<madnick> hi
<knome> i still think the lightdm should be centered, if the plymouth theme is centered ;)
<astraljava> madnick: If I go home today at all, I can give it a go.
<madnick> knome: indeed, im doing a new theme
<knome> no other reasons really, the left-aligned style doesn't look bad as it is
<madnick> astraljava: thanks :)
<knome> madnick, any other changes than just centering?
<madnick> knome: im doing "username" -> "password"
<madnick> + session
<knome> mmh
<madnick> in center :)
<knome> are you presenting a list of the usernames
<knome> (awesome!)
<knome> hey astraljava 
<madnick> Im not, but I could do that
<knome> okay, i think that'd be a welcome addition
<knome> i don't need it myself but yeah.. many like it
<madnick> knome: im just gonna do 2 masked textboxes + dropdown (for session) + login button
<knome> :)
<madnick> with xubuntu-greybird.png
<knome> if you need any artwork, just ask
<knome> and sorry for not being that active, life is getting in the way :)
<madnick> knome: i need artwork for plymouth! :P If I dont have a package next week charlie wont ship it
<knome> so it's still about cirlce/not circle?
<madnick> Yes
<knome> next week = monday, or sunday?
<madnick> Monday
<knome> mm'kay
<madnick> If you get ochosi to like our version (the bar) i could have the package today
<knome> if you haven't heard of me before friday, poke me with a fork
<knome> and the lightdm theme also needs to be ready before Mon? is there something you need?
<madnick> Well, not sure, I guess anything is welcome, atm its just gonna be the standard controllers styled as much as possible :)
<knome> okay
<knome> once you have gone as far as you can (without using too much time with artwork), can you also poke me?
<madnick> yes :)
<knome> thanks
<knome> it shouldn't take too long to create something in the same style
<madnick> I suspect the greeter code will take a day or two
<knome> okay
<madnick> Im gonna write it in Vala, so I can easily port Roberts code for fetching users etc
<knome> :)
<knome> robert who?
<madnick> The author of lightdm 
<knome> oki
<madnick> Im a bit worried about libsession.so
<madnick> If that is a heavy thing or not
<knome> :)
<astraljava> knome: pong
<knome> astraljava, ping? :)
<knome> astraljava, just said hello before, if you were wondering
<astraljava> Aha. :) Well, hello there! :D
<astraljava> How you doin'? </Joey voice>
<knome> heh
<knome> fineish
<knome> busy, but okay
<knome> guests coming in any minute :)
<astraljava> Oh alright, have fun!
<knome> will try to ;)
<knome> so did you already watch QI with jussi?
<astraljava> Nope. :)
<knome> BAAAH!
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> But I think he saw us talking about that, and I'm fairly confident he checked it out himself at some point.
<knome> yeah. i've been reminding him of it.
<madnick> err, cannot compile what I made :( I lost the makefile, got no idea how I got it working before :D
<knome> how is that even possible?
<knome> don't you make backups?
<knome> ;)
<madnick> Nope :(
<knome> boo
<madnick> According to the unity greeter, i should use 5 libs, which I am
<knome> you should. :)
<knome> anyway, bbl ->
<madnick> cya :)
<madnick> Nobody seems to know what is wrong with the compilation :(
<micahg> knome: ?
<madnick> hi micahg could you help me package the plymouth theme? :)
<micahg> madnick: sure, does it have to be right now?
<madnick> micahg: nope
<micahg> madnick: take a look at plymouth-theme-xubuntu-logo and plymouth-theme-xubuntu-text and xubuntu-plymouth-theme
<madnick> okay :)
<astraljava> wget ftp://ftp.funet.fi/dev/100Mnull
<astraljava> ...
<astraljava> 2011-08-15 20:08:49 (11.1 MB/s) - `100Mnull' saved [104857600]
 * astraljava is happy again
<GridCube> yesterday i did the alternate i386 whole disk test
<GridCube> it went smootly :D
<GridCube> smoothly?
<GridCube> yep that one
<astraljava> Do you intend to do some today? I can do some others, then, but only i386 at this time.
<astraljava> I mean real hw.
<astraljava> vbox can be used for amd64
<astraljava> http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/bandwidth.png
<GridCube> i can't do tests on the week days, uni and work wont allow me to. I can test on weekends tho
<astraljava> Ahh... okay then.
<GridCube> .
<madnick> micahg: Ive looked over package structure, nothing odd, just that, Im not sure how to build a package :)
<madnick> I found alot of guides for it, but it cannot possibly involve that many tools :\
<astraljava> madnick: Yeah, sorry, but I had to work 15 hours today, so no time for helping out. :(
<micahg> madnick: take a look at pbuilder-dist in ubuntu-dev-tools
<madnick> astraljava: oh, okay :)
<madnick> micahg: will do
<madnick> micahg: while i have you here, what was bad about using GtkWebKit for building a GTK greeter with Webkit frontend?
<madnick> I remember vaugly it was something bad about it
<micahg> overhead?
<madnick> That is true :P 
<madnick> Still, it requires less than 256 MB RAM
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-16
<madnick> http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter.png
<madnick> knome: 
<madnick> comments?
<madnick> The < > are for iterating through users and sessinos
<charlie-tca> madnick: how will the user know that means that?
<charlie-tca> That is about as intuitive as the gear unity is using
<madnick> So it should cleary state
<charlie-tca> please
<madnick> Sessions:
<madnick> okay
<madnick> charlie-tca: how would you want it presented? Usability wise, a list that is always visable?
<charlie-tca> I don't care if the list itself is always there, but the identity of what the list is needs to be there.
<madnick> ah
<charlie-tca> The idea that new users will not know anything anyway is fine for unity. That is their goal. Mine is users need to know what anything we put up means
<charlie-tca> If the user has to click everything on the page to guess what anything is, it fails
<charlie-tca> right now, since unity login defaults to the original user of the system, I get password failed on every login
<charlie-tca> There is nothing easy to show who is logging in, what session they are picking, where to pick a session, etc.
<charlie-tca> There is not even a blinking cursor to say you actually managed to select the password bos
<charlie-tca> s/bos/box
<madnick> nope, they hide that
<madnick> ok
<madnick> So usability is priority 1 :)
<madnick> Ill see what I can do
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> If we have a pretty interface that is horrible to use, it fails
<madnick> yeah
<charlie-tca> I would rather stay with the gtk greeter than have something remotely resembling unity right now
<charlie-tca> Sorry. I know that doesn't sound right, but usability is everything
<madnick> Maybe I should explain what I was thinking :) I thought "default session -> default user -> enter password -> login" 
<madnick> I was thinking that was a clean way for new users not to poke around too much
<madnick> But I do understand that It lacks explainatory features, and I will fix them
<charlie-tca> That works, but if a user doesn't know what to do to change a session??? 
<madnick> Yeah it must state Session there, I wouldnt understand it myself tbh when i think about it :P
<charlie-tca> Users do not know by tele-kinesis what we expect them to, even if Unity thinks they do
<TheSheep> you mean tele-cognition?
<madnick> i guess i could make a panel like in 11.04
<TheSheep> kinesis is when things move
<charlie-tca> More and more, designers are planning things that users "can learn to do", instead of "using it should not take learning"
<madnick> for session selection
<charlie-tca> Thanks, TheSheep 
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: everything takes learning
<madnick> on the bbottom :)
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: the only intuitive interface is the nipple
<charlie-tca> TheSheep: does that mean we can't make it easy to learn?
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: you can make it similar to other things you have learned
<charlie-tca> Obviously, you haven't tried the unity-greeter lately?
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: but new people will find *that* awkward, as they will lack your exposure to windows 95 user interface
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> what did windows 95 have?
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: unity is horrible, but not because of reinventing things
<charlie-tca> I liked the windows 3.1 login
<charlie-tca> heh
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: it's horrible because of a really bad process of inventing and testing them
<charlie-tca> and no, I am not opposed to change :)
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: no, I didn't see unity greeter, but I can imagine it
<charlie-tca> They have a gear now, which might be hidden by having too long a name, to click on to change sessions
<TheSheep> why would you want to change sessions? ;)
<charlie-tca> You can have about 20 letters in name only now
<TheSheep> I was thinking about switching to haiku
<TheSheep> it has a nice and well thought out user interface
 * charlie-tca slaps head. never occurred to him they don't want the user changing sessions
<charlie-tca> Hopefully, Xubuntu will have a nice, well thought out interface, too.
<TheSheep> it's breaking down slowly
<madnick> how do i see what version of lightdm is in the repo?
<madnick> (using the channel bot) :P
<charlie-tca> madnick: we do still have crt users, too. Not everyone has high-quality, high-definition lcd or plasma displays yet.
<charlie-tca> !info lightdm
<ubottu> lightdm (source: lightdm): Display Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.3-0ubuntu2 (natty), package size 47 kB, installed size 236 kB
<madnick> thanks
<charlie-tca> If you need the oneiric one, use
<charlie-tca> !info lightdm oneiric
<ubottu> lightdm (source: lightdm): Display Manager. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.3-0ubuntu3 (oneiric), package size 79 kB, installed size 356 kB
<charlie-tca> Since oneiric is development only at this time, it takes extra work to see the package
<charlie-tca> but that is a big jump in versions
<charlie-tca> I have to order another motherboard, I guess. This latest used computer I picked up just keeps failing
<charlie-tca> I guess that is what $10.00 US dollars buys now
<madnick> http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft.png
<madnick> quick change
<madnick> ill do something about users also
<madnick> But something like that (even tho it wont look like that, but you get the idea:))
<madnick> Sessions and keyboard settings at bottom
<charlie-tca> That's the idea. 
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> Don't let anyone tell you we don't want that, though
<charlie-tca> You can't make everyone happy, I know that. Trying to get all of us to agree will result in no display at all
<madnick> speaking of that, the plymouth stuff; you wanted a package on monday? knome said he get back to me before friday, so i will have ~2 days :P
<madnick> ochosi still not here
<madnick> :(
<charlie-tca> If I was you, I would have a package ready or close to it. 
<madnick> charlie-tca: i do already ;)
<madnick> I just have not built it yet
<charlie-tca> User interface freeze is August 25. We have to have it in before that
<madnick> But all scripts etc are in place to just hit "build"
<charlie-tca> I see ochosi isn't here yet. Maybe he is on holidays this week too?
<charlie-tca> You can always ask TheSheep too. He is very good with critique of the work
<madnick> :)
<micahg> is it possible to set the background with the gtk greeter using lightdm-set-defaults?
<charlie-tca> I can't even seem to get rid of the unity-greeter here. Without it, lightdm won't start
<micahg> charlie-tca: heh, I said that the other day :)
<charlie-tca> Got to have a new install, I guess
<charlie-tca> desktop images working today
<charlie-tca> Lightdm is working good with lightdm-gtk-greeter on fresh installs and live sessions
<charlie-tca> Guess I will remove it from this machine completely, and then reinstall it
<charlie-tca> I really dislike unity-greeter
<charlie-tca> I have reached the point of really, really not liking the way it works
<micahg> I think lightdm needs package triggers
<micahg> charlie-tca: can you try dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings?
<charlie-tca> to get rid of unity-greeter?
<charlie-tca> $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings
<charlie-tca> [sudo] password for charlie: 
<charlie-tca> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME missing
<charlie-tca> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_PACKAGE missing
<micahg> \o/
 * charlie-tca nods
<micahg> charlie-tca: not to get rid of unity, but it should reconfigure lightdm to use the gtk greeter
<charlie-tca> I see
<charlie-tca> It doesn't run
<micahg> in theory
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> at least I don't think it did
<micahg> well, mr_pouit made xubuntu-default-settings set certain env settings for lightdm IIRC
<charlie-tca> It seems very difficult this cycle to get the already installed stuff at the same place as the fresh installs
<charlie-tca> And I don't mean just us, either
<charlie-tca> I will be doing a fresh installation here for beta1, if not sooner
<mr_pouit> o hai (sorry for being silent for a week, but i've been a bit bored but all these lightdm issues, so I took a "forced" break until they did something :/)
<mr_pouit> micahg: dpkg-reconfiguring won't do, because the maintainer scripts only change lightdm's config if nothing is already defined
<mr_pouit> s/but/by/
<mr_pouit> you can run manually: sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --session=xubuntu
<mr_pouit> and sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --greeter=lightdm-gtk-greeter
<mr_pouit> (if you don't want to override any existing settings, add --keep-old
<micahg> mr_pouit: cool, thanks
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the only problem I have with that is the "they" decided lightdm was finished and working, and I had to figure out what to push hard to get it fixed.
<charlie-tca> But anyway, it seems we got it done!
<madnick> Seems a bit late for this mutliarch things :)
<madnick> i mean ia32 wont live much longer :P
<micahg> madnick: multiarch has been in progress since last cycle and will continue for a few more
<madnick> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-17
<charlie-tca> fixed the cheap, broken computer. Reset bios power saving from S3 to S1
<charlie-tca> Good night
<madnick> knome: I would need some artwork now :) (you told me to tell you if i did :P)
<knome> uhhh. yeah
<knome> what kind of?
<charlie-tca> Oneiric Desktop i386 image went to 702.3MB today
<madnick> knome: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft4.png
<madnick> Arrows for that :P
<knome> mm-hmm
<madnick> knome: if you dont like the theme, please tell me what to change :P
<knome> were you thinking something in the glow-style?
<knome> the center box is for pw?
<madnick> knome: yes
<madnick> Glowstyle is nice
<madnick> centerbox is password (i need to work on my answers :P)
<knome> imo the theme is a bit confusing now, but i think that's easy enough to workaround
<knome> is the userbox also writable?
<madnick> nope, but it could be :)
<madnick> thats what the arrows are for
<madnick> to change username and sessions
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> the session box doesn't need to be writable, imo
<knome> let me create quickly an improved mockup
<madnick> okay :)
<knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/draft.png
<knome> madnick, what about something as simple as that?
<knome> madnick, the arrows don't really actually need the glow here, imo :)
<madnick> nice! :)
<knome> and this would be as consistent as possible with the plymouth theme
<madnick> knome: is the arrows ascii chars?
<knome> yeah, just < >
<madnick> okay
 * madnick wonders if there is a special one like ^ but for down
<knome> for the clock and the shutdown icon, just a sec
<knome> there's *something* but i don't know if that's really the "reverse" for ^
<madnick> btw knome you said "consistent with plymouth" :P
<madnick> There wont be a plymouth if you and ochosi cant agree :((
<knome> heh, there will be
<knome> :))
<madnick> I didnt see what was wrong with the orginal idea 
<madnick> It was very simple :P
<madnick> and nice
<knome> it was just confusing for me
<madnick> i mean
<madnick> the plymouth
<knome> ah
<madnick> And that version works and i have it running on all my workstations
<knome> ochosi thinks that the progressbar going back and forth isn't the best way to indicate progress
<knome> and he's right
<madnick> Yes, but we need a package by monday
<knome> yes.
<knome> i know. :)
<knome> don't worry baby, i'm an expert
<knome> ;)
<madnick> :P
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/draft-2.png
<knome> draft for the clock and shutdown icon
<knome> (just use any shutdown icon that's not that one :P)
<madnick> :P
<charlie-tca> Somewhere along the way, accessibility has gotten lost?
<knome> ?
<knome> another dropbox?
<charlie-tca> There should be an icon to click for accessibility options on that screen too
<knome> will it be a popup, or dropdown box
<charlie-tca> should be next to shutdown icon
<knome> sure
<madnick> charlie-tca: if the theme is going to implemented accessability in the greeter, i need to know what accessability would mean in a greeter
<charlie-tca> I don't know that a clock is important, who cares what time you type a password in, but being to access the options would be important.
 * madnick tried current gtk greeter to see
<charlie-tca> There's always been accessibility in the login screen
<knome> charlie-tca, yes, we will add the accessibility button.
<madnick> charlie-tca: yes, but since this a new theme, i would need to implemented accessability
<madnick> High contrast + large fonts
<charlie-tca> yes, along with Onboard if the user has selected it
<madnick> onscreen keyboard?
<charlie-tca> both onboard and orca have options to use them during the login. If we can get them in there, great. If we can not, we will release note it and it will be a regression bug
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> If the user can not use a hardware keyboard, they must have onboard or another onscreen keyboard to use
<madnick> charlie-tca: is that possibly in the gtk-greeter? (im wondering because then i can take some of that code)
<charlie-tca> It was in there, but I haven'
<charlie-tca> haven't looked lately
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> It was the two icons in the top right corner. 
<madnick> yep, but for me there is no onscreen keyboard
<madnick> But that can be arranged
<charlie-tca> Right, it is a option the user has to specifically select, I believe.
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> I know accessibility takes a back seat with Unity, most of the rhetoric is "Accessibility is very important", but the actual doing is the last thing that happens, with the least amount of emphasis.
<charlie-tca> However, maybe we can be the ones to keep it in the forefront ?
<charlie-tca> I mean, afterall, accessibility for alpha3 was still not working, because design is more important.
<madnick> yeah, it should be working
<GridCube> knome mockup is nice but it lacks the same "what does the arrows do?" answer that charlie-tca asked to madnick the other day
<GridCube> \o/ 3 highlights on one sentence
<GridCube> but now i want  the greeter to have knome's shutdown icon
<charlie-tca> madnick: OTOH, it may not matter, since orca is not working for us either.
<charlie-tca> accessibility is all broken under gnome3, and may not work anyway if we stay with gtk2
<charlie-tca> Kind of between the rock and a hard place now
<madnick> charlie-tca: however, the greeter could implement its own accessability
<madnick> but it might be useless if the accessability in the OS does not work
<charlie-tca> agreed
 * madnick just ate a candybar that had laid in gasolin :(((
<charlie-tca> I heard that we now have accessibility working in the alternate session for Ubuntu. As far as Unity, it changes too often to follow again.
<madnick> ah
<charlie-tca> um, gasoline is bad for the humans
<madnick> yeah :\
<charlie-tca> not too good for any animal, as far as I know
<madnick> It was wrapped in plastic, dont know if any of it got in
<charlie-tca> hm... I tend the to follow the "bad for me if it smells bad" thing
<madnick> i did not smell it :(
<madnick> i shouldve
<charlie-tca> lol
<madnick> I tasted it, but then i spit it out, well most of it
<charlie-tca> Well, then it shouldn't be too bad
<madnick> but i ate a candy bar from the same location eariler :(
<charlie-tca> although the last time I drank gasoline, it made parts of me numb
<madnick> but it did not taste gaslin
<madnick> you drank gasoline? :(
<charlie-tca> Maybe the plastic protected it
<charlie-tca> How else do you siphon it?
<madnick> was it by accident?
<charlie-tca> stick the hose in the tank, suck on it to start the flow, spit and hack for an hour...
<madnick> oh
<madnick> did you visit the doctor?
<charlie-tca> no, I just figured it didn't kill me
<charlie-tca> Maybe that was wrong?
<madnick> might not be good for the liver / kidneys, but my friend texted me "you will puke if there is gasolin in it, and that clears it up"
<charlie-tca> I have since given up gasoline as one of those things that is bad for me.
<charlie-tca> See, so you are fine!
<madnick> yeah hopefully :)
<astraljava> charlie-tca: I see you haven't done that enough times. At some point, I did it so many times I began to notice when to stop sucking before the liquid actually hit my mouth. :D
<astraljava> many enough*
<astraljava> Or how do you say that, actually?
<knome> astraljava, you say it like "et vaan osaa"
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> I think you got it right. 
<astraljava> *frown*
 * astraljava has frowned too many times today already
<astraljava> ...and probably keeps on frowning
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, some days are better days for frowning then smiling
<charlie-tca> I had to quit doing the gasoline, it seems to be getting bad for me.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah. Work has prevented me from my hobbies (read: ubuntu) for two and a half weeks now, and it doesn't look good for the near future either.
<astraljava> Hahah!
<astraljava> Yeah, but you really have to push it to keep on going, cause you'll get used to it eventually.
<charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, anyone running oneiric should be waiting to restart after updating. It seems some computers are refusing to restart X after yesterdays glib update
<astraljava> Oh nice.
<charlie-tca> You think?
<astraljava> Yeah, but it might require some mutations.
<charlie-tca> It seemed like the numbing was pretty bad last time.
<astraljava> Did you know that by every generation, there are about 60 mutations in the genepool?
<charlie-tca> work is like a bad habit sometimes, gets in the way of everything :(
<knome> astraljava, you are one of those?
 * knome hides
<astraljava> Indeed.
<charlie-tca> I had no idea about the genepool.
<knome> i think i'm the rest 59
<astraljava> knome: I am the equivalent of the whole genepool's worth of.
<knome> astraljava, :)
<charlie-tca> the problem with the reboot failing is that you don't know if you have a computer affected until you reboot it.
<knome> astraljava, ha! we watched QI @mums yesterday, she's started to record those!
<astraljava> charlie-tca: That's just wonderful.
<charlie-tca> That's why I thought I should tell people.
<astraljava> Goddamned. I've completely forgotten all about QI. I need to get that channel package that shows that.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Thanks!
<charlie-tca> Of course, I don't know how to tell when it gets fixed now, either.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Well, that's why we're rebooting after every test install, despite your warnings. :D
<knome> astraljava, hehe. you know, the new series start this fall, and you can watch it on the bbc iplayer if you're in (a proxy in) britain.
<astraljava> knome: Good to know, but I don't think I have anyone in UK who could setup such.
<charlie-tca> Oh, test installs don't matter so much, but some of us do use Oneiric all the time now.
<knome> astraljava, i don't think there is any free-to-use uk proxy lists on the web either.
<charlie-tca> Well, back to the important things. I guess I better go do the minutes from the meeting
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah. I'm tempted. This vanilla 11.04 classic has pissed me off since the dawn of time, but since the on-going projects require me to keep the dev env alive, I cannot install another.
<astraljava> knome: I'm pretty sure the feds have gotten rid off of those way back.
<charlie-tca> True. I test, thus I run the latest development release. 
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Have I missed a meeting?
<charlie-tca> I know when it breaks, right away, too
<astraljava> When was that?
<charlie-tca> Sunday?
<knome> astraljava, yeah, especially that proxy i used the last time ;)
<astraljava> Oh, I think I was there.
<astraljava> knome: Hah! :D
<charlie-tca> astraljava: You were there.
<astraljava> Yeah, thanks.
<micahg> charlie-tca: CD size ACK, but we're still ok, we should be able to get a little bit back with some library transitions
<micahg> actually, I take that back, I think we might be done w/transitions...idr anymore
<micahg> openssl is done for the CDs anyways
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-18
<cire_> hi
<cire_> need some help
<cire_> just installed xubuntu
<cire_> the sound is not working
<Unit193> You may want to ask in the support channel in that case...b
<Unit193> #xubuntu is the support channel
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: thanks for the "how to fix lightdm" info. It worked!
<mr_pouit> glad to hear that
<mr_pouit> well, to read that
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-22 at 19:00 UTC | Oneiric Desktop images are broken
<madnick> "Unable to correct missing packages" :(((
<madnick> its supposed to not be missing :)
<madnick> !libsoup2.4-dev
<charlie-tca> ehy?
<charlie-tca> What release of xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> !info libsoup2.4-dev
<ubottu> libsoup2.4-dev (source: libsoup2.4): an HTTP library implementation in C -- Development files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.34.0-0ubuntu1.1 (natty), package size 257 kB, installed size 1340 kB
<madnick> I need it for oneric
<madnick> !info info libsoup2.4-dev oneiric
<ubottu> 'libsoup2.4-dev' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> too many info there
<charlie-tca> !info libsoup2.4-dev oneiric
<ubottu> libsoup2.4-dev (source: libsoup2.4): HTTP library implementation in C -- Development files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.35.5-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 285 kB, installed size 1424 kB
<charlie-tca> looks valid, maybe they have an update going in
<madnick> I need it for lightdm :<
<charlie-tca> :(
<charlie-tca> madnick: seems there are some issues right now for developers using oneiric
<madnick> charlie-tca: oh okay :(
<charlie-tca> At least it isn't just you ;)
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, I found some more space, if we get hal out of exaile, we can get back ~1MB
<charlie-tca> We need it, although I don't know why 386 only goes oversize
<micahg> BTW, I think the size will sort itself after the next translations run, synaptic was demoted to universe so now the translations are in the package
<mr_pouit> hum, we shouldn't ship exaile anymore
<micahg> mr_pouit: you have a replacement?, there's a branch to fix hal upstream, but it still hasn't been committed to trunk AFAIK
<charlie-tca> I thought we were shipping parole and gmusicbrowser only in oneiric
<micahg> oh yeah, right...idk what was going through my head
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is usually all-knowing
<micahg> ah, we don't have hal anymore
<mr_pouit> I think we switched to gmusicbrowser recently
<mr_pouit> or I dreamed we did
<micahg> yeah, that was last cycle
<mr_pouit> so it replaced exaile, right?
<charlie-tca> right
<micahg> yeah, that sounds right
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> I guess I use these apps so seldom, I forget to look what we do have.
<micahg> mr_pouit: have I been doing ok WRT the seeds/packageset while you were away?
<charlie-tca> He ain't reverted them yet?
<micahg> nope
<charlie-tca> Usually a really good sign
<mr_pouit> huhu
<mr_pouit> yeah, no problem
<micahg> BTW, the next meta upload will pull in a few more printer drivers (all small), dailies should have them already
<mr_pouit> I don't find pastebinit _that_ useful to be in the default install, but as it was requested in several meetings, I won't touch it :P
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<micahg> well, we have the option to make it live only and not in the install
<charlie-tca> We just got tired of telling people they had to install it to use it
<mr_pouit> W: murrine-themes: non-standard-file-perm usr/share/themes/greybird/xfwm4/stick-toggled-inactive.png 0664 != 0644
 * micahg uses pastebinit all the time
<mr_pouit> something's messing with my oneiric sbuild, and I don't like that /o\
<micahg> mr_pouit: umask in oneiric changed to 0002
<mr_pouit> micahg: yup, I read that, but I can't find what to do to fix my chroot
<micahg> I think lintian needs to be fixed :)
<mr_pouit> playing with login.defs, nor pam.d/common-session* was successful :(
<mr_pouit> mmmh
<micahg> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/umask-to-0002
<mr_pouit> micahg: no, lintian is right, all pngs have wrong permissions in my built debs
<mr_pouit> and only pngs :>
<micahg> oh, that sounds familiar actually
<mr_pouit> I guess that's when they're optimized that something happens =]
<micahg> mr_pouit: ah, maybe ask pitti, could be that pkgbinarymangler needs a fix
<charlie-tca> Going for a walk time...
<micahg> mr_pouit: we're sticking with 4.8.x until oneiric release, right?
<mr_pouit> looks like it's advpng that breaks the file permissions :/
<mr_pouit> micahg: I'd say: until we're sure that 4.10 will be released on time
<micahg> well, even if released on time, it won't be ready until Jan, oneiric releases in Oct :)
<micahg> but that suggests even post release you want to wait
<mr_pouit> yep, because I don't think that the schedule will be respected
<micahg> ok, makes sense
<micahg> although I don't think it would be good if we're stuck with 4.8.x for the LTS, but it's better than a broken 4.9
<mr_pouit> only 1 component has got a 4.9.x release so far (xfce4-settings)
<mr_pouit> oh, and thunar 1.3.0
<mr_pouit> (but it's outdated compared to 1.2.x for bugfixes)
<mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pkgbinarymangler/+bug/817792 \o/
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 817792 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) "pkgstripfiles doesn't preserve permissions of png files" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mr_pouit> urg, I thought it was occurring on my system only, but it's the same on buildds
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-19
<charlie-tca> "Woot" is now an official english word, according to the Concise Oxford English Dictionary.
<holstein> lol
 * madnick pokes knome with a fork, as instructed :P
<charlie-tca> Oneiric is broken bad today. Ran updates, can not boot into the system. gets to lightdm screen
<charlie-tca> keyboard and mouse are not working
<charlie-tca> Impossible to log in. boot to recovery mode does not complete
<charlie-tca> Well, ssh in, clean cache, move .xsession-errors, run updates, run autormove, run updates, reboot, hit a lot of keys when it gets stuck, got to the desktop
<charlie-tca> spawn a ton of apport errors, something is broken with gvfs
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: gcalc no longer works in oneiric
<mr_pouit> feel free to file a bug against it then :p
<charlie-tca> did
<charlie-tca> But I am concerned that we are going to have a number of broken apps if we don't keep our eyes on them
<charlie-tca> "users and groups" can not be used; "gcalc" can not be used; what else is going to be "can not use" that I haven't hit yet?
<charlie-tca> micahg: any progess on setting up meeting with derivatives to decide what to do with bug 789333
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 789333 in policykit-1-gnome (Ubuntu Oneiric) "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789333
<mr_pouit> well, gilir (lubuntu) is working on that apparently
<Unit193> gilir is online now in #Lubuntu-offtopic
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, it's been a busy week, I can send out an e-mail over the weekend
<charlie-tca> okay
<micahg> charlie-tca: no need for a meeting amongst the derivatives, gilir fixed it :)
<micahg> or rather, it's in progress
<charlie-tca> great! Thanks for checking
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-20
<knome> madnick, mmm... good morning! i just installed a new psu!
<knome> (on other words, a very late evening to you all)
<pleia2> morning, knome :)
<Unit193> Good night pleia2 , knome (not going to sleep, just a greeting)
<pleia2> night Unit193 
<knome> hehe
<knome> i just made a decision, that i'll never ever buy a non-modular psu again
<pleia2> modular++
<knome> of course, i'm (probably) forced to do that on the next occasion, but as far as i can choose..
<pleia2> I learned that the hard way too
<knome> didn't learn that the hard way really
<knome> that was my first ever self-installed PSU's
<pleia2> oh :)
<knome> upgraded from 450W to 650W, and now all the devices are turned on every boot
<knome> (yay)
<pleia2> hehe, that's good
<knome> yeah, that's kind of nice :P
<Unit193> Eh, you don't need a CD drive...
<Unit193> Or a HDD
<knome> actually, the problem was that the sound card was not turned on every boot
<knome> no problems with other devices at all.
<pleia2> I bet that was fun to debug
<knome> boot, gmb, play, BLAH, boot, gmb, play, BLAH, boot, gmb, play, BLAH, boot, gmb, play, BLAH, boot, "oh, i have sound"
<knome> i think my record was 9 boots.
<knome> you can imagine i also hit the fsck boot quite often..
<pleia2> heh
<knome> well of course i cancelled, but..
<knome> i'm wondering what my next move will be
<knome> sleep won't work, that will end up with zombie-knome for the rest of the day
<knome> a shower and some more food might do
<pleia2> :)
<knome> any more alcohol will also probably fail...
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> only if it's with orange juice, that makes it healthy and breakfasty
<knome> rum with orange juice? :|
<knome> though i don't think we have any orange juice
<pleia2> usually it would be vodka or sparkling wine
<knome> the only alcohol there is is rum
<knome> and a bottle of beer preserved for special occasion
<knome> and that's got nothing to do with orange juice.
<pleia2> indeed
<knome> i think the next step is updating my beerlog
<pleia2> beerlog++
<knome> huh, this was definitely night of crazy ideas
<knome> we went to shop to buy a new PS3 controller for a friend, just so we could play a game with three players
<knome> (i also bought the PSU on the same trip)
<pleia2> hehe
 * knome 's beerlog for this year is at http://wiki.knome.fi/olut:2011
<pleia2> I had Innis & Gunn for the first time recently
<knome> the rum cask version is fabulous
<knome> we ended the beer-drinking night today with that
<knome> then went to rum
<knome> :P
<pleia2> nicely done
<knome> also, if you can get your hands on one of those longer matured bottles, they are very fantastic too
<knome> (i&g)
<pleia2> I haven't looked for it around here (was in canada visiting my sister when I had it)
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> what did you think of it, btw? :P
<knome> i instantly thought you'd love it
<pleia2> I liked it, the one I had was very vanillay
<knome> they all have that sameish aroma
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/5774149187/
<pleia2> the blonde
<knome> blonde? i've never had that
<knome> how much alc vol%
<pleia2> the internet says 6%
<knome> mm-hmmm
<knome> the rum cask and the original have more
<pleia2> yeah, 6 is on the low end of what I typically enjoy
<knome> i think that actually even improves it, without having had the "lighter" version
<knome> oki, beerlog updated :)
<knome> madnick, shall we look at the theme stuff later today?
<madnick> knome: yes please :D
<knome> madnick, didn't go to summer cottage this weekend to be able to get some free time with these
<madnick> :)
<knome> i need to eat first, a friend is coming over for that in an hour or so, and after that i'm free
<knome> (before that, i think i'll do some work with other things)
<madnick> okay, ill be here, if not, just highlight me :)
<knome> sure, great
<madnick> I hope the oneiric cd's work today, have not been able to test the lightdm theme :<
<knome> :|
<knome> bbl
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft6.png
<madnick> oh, yes, password shouldnt have < > ;(
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do you have time to see why the desktop image is failing to build?
<charlie-tca> madnick: how goes the lightdm screen?
<madnick> charlie-tca: ill paste a screesshot, let me just fire up the testmode :)
<charlie-tca> astraljava: gilir from lubuntu is fixing the issues with Users and Groups for derivatives
<madnick> charlie-tca: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft7.png
<knome> madnick, that looks realy good. can we maybe make the text on the boxes lighter?
<madnick> Should I add "Select session" to make it clearer?
<madnick> knome: yes sure
<knome> i don't think "select session" is needed
<charlie-tca> That looks good
<knome> "session" is already quite descriptive
<charlie-tca> If the text is lighter, will it disappear?
<madnick> nope
<knome> charlie-tca, no, it will stand out more
<charlie-tca> knome, madnick : agreed on session
<charlie-tca> already descriptive enough
<knome> either you know what session is or then don't "select" doesn't really help
<charlie-tca> up
<charlie-tca> yup
<knome> and might confuse, if you think you always need to select something :)
<madnick> Im setting up a dev environment on Oneiric now
<charlie-tca> It's just the icon alone that left me confused as to what I needed for a session
<madnick> to test this
<knome> madnick, from which icon theme are those icons? elementary?
<madnick> knome: yes
<madnick> from elementary
<knome> okay. i'll give you better icons soonish, based on those
<madnick> okay
<knome> also, i think the arrows work like this as well (no special reason to make them up/down)
<madnick> knome: i thought that it might be too small to click on
<knome> can you bold them (does that make any difference to the looks?)
<madnick> if they where ^
<knome> yeah
<knome> they arent exactly large now either
<madnick> Nope, but they are spread out
<madnick> So you cant click on wrong :P
<knome> so there is some invisible, but clickable padding?
<charlie-tca> With them on both ends this way, there is less chance of hitting the wrong one
<madnick> knome: there could be
<knome> madnick, that would be nice. that could even spread to the border of the screen
<madnick> :)
<knome> madnick, then it would be REALLY easy to hit one of those
<knome> if that's too hard, just forget it, but some padding would definitely be ++
<madnick> oki, but knome shall we work on plymouth?
<knome> charlie-tca, does the accessibility icon definitely need the blue circle, or would it work without it as well?
<knome> sure, i'll just work those icons out now, so we can get lightdm finished now
<knome> at least from the graphical side
<madnick> lightdm needs more C code, but the UI 
<madnick> yeah
<madnick> :P
<knome> do you remember those icon paths/names from the top of your head?
<madnick> yes
<knome> shoot
<charlie-tca> Internationally recognized symbol for accessibility is the man in a cirlce, 
<madnick> /usr/share/icons/elementary/apps/32$
<madnick> -$ :)
<knome> thanks
<charlie-tca> so, if we can, it would be best to keep it
<knome> charlie-tca, okay, i'll keep it there, but not quite as it is now - i'll let you have a look first
<madnick> i really need help packaging plymouth later, because i made my package look like the old plymouth, but im not sure how to "build it", and i get conflicting information from the internet
<knome> heh
<charlie-tca> knome: can make it an outline instead of shaded circle, too
<knome> charlie-tca, i think a circle would work, just a sec
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: it should be fixed already (murrine-themes got synced when I was away, so I couldn't upload a fixed xubuntu-artwork right after)
<madnick> knome: btw, the high contrast for accessability; it needs to be implemented into the greeter
<madnick> And im not sure what high contrast would mean :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Thanks, will look for them tomorrow to test then
<knome> madnick, is it as easy as me telling you which colors to put where?
<charlie-tca> madnick: high contrast is just a theme selected for the desktop
<madnick> knome: yes it is
<knome> oki
<charlie-tca> install accessibility themes, gives you "high contrast"  in both appearance and xfwm4
<madnick> Yes, I guess I could read the data from that theme
<charlie-tca> It changes the displays to white background, black outlines, black text, black icons
<charlie-tca> Do you want a screenshot?
<madnick> charlie-tca: hm, in lightdm gtk greeter, it changes to dark blue, and like yellowish stuff
<charlie-tca> To those who do not need it, it is quite difficult to use
<charlie-tca> That will work. It should be very good contrast as opposed to normal
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/accessibility_icon.png
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/shutdown_icon.png
<knome> madnick, ^ try those
<madnick> knome: okay
<knome> madnick, also, add some padding vs. the top and the right edge of screen (maybe sth like 5-7px)
<charlie-tca> knome: those are fine
<knome> yeah
<knome> a bit simpler than the default elementary icons, but fine for the lightdm
<knome> madnick, so, the thing with plymouth is... only the progress bar/circle?
<knome> or is there something else left to think?
<knome> i'm starting to think, just keep the bar going back and forth for now, and fix it in oneiric+1
<madnick> :P
<knome> no really
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft8.png
<knome> it's badish, but it's not the end of the world
<knome> great!
<knome> do you think the icons are maybe a tad big?
<madnick> so, keep plymouth as it is?
<knome> can i have one more shot of it, and then i can say yes
<knome> ;)
<madnick> knome: not on a normal screen :P
<knome> okay, that's probably true
<madnick> knome: 1 more shot?
<madnick> ok
<knome> yeah
<knome> i'm not sure about the lightdm "log in" button either
 * madnick thought you meant screenshot :)
<knome> it's a bit... weird
<knome> yes, screenshot :D
<knome> so i can just see that it is fine, really
<madnick> what should i change in the ldm
<madnick> or did you mean
<knome> mmh
<madnick> plymouth?
<knome> no i meant
<knome> 1) can i have a screenshot of plymouth, so i can tell you it's ok
<madnick> okay
<knome> 2) the lightdm log in -button needs tweaking graphically
<madnick> ok, ill setup a new screenshot of plymouth 1 sec
<knome> thanks
<knome> i'll get something to drink
<madnick> err, it uses the old one :)
<madnick> 1 sec
<knome> heh, no hurry
<knome> what does our livecd boot screen look like?
<knome> i mean, the equivalent to http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Xubuntu_Live_or_install.png
<knome> charlie-tca?
<madnick> oh holy ... this was hard, i ruined the configs
<charlie-tca> That is the menu screen from the desktop cd
<knome> ouch? :)
<knome> charlie-tca, we still have the same old logo there?
<charlie-tca> from there, if you choose the top option, you get plymouth until the live session starts
<charlie-tca> yes, we do
<knome> ouch...
<knome> mr_pouit, madnick: know how to change that? :P
<charlie-tca> we have a bug on it, but it may have gotten confused with the "still shows 11.04 logo "  bug
<knome> 11.04? ;)
<charlie-tca> yes, plymouth in text mode shows "Xubuntu 11.04" with the dots under it
<knome> right
<charlie-tca> I think mr_pouit fixed that today
<knome> heh, okay
<knome> but the livecd still uses the old loho?
<knome> *logo
<charlie-tca> but we still have the old logo on the cd menu, yes
<knome> i can export/create one suitable for that today, if somebody tells me the specs
<knome> *wink*
<charlie-tca> Keep in mind, that is on both images
<knome> sure
<charlie-tca> alternate and desktop cd use a menu
<knome> yeah
<knome> the worse it is that we do have the old logo there
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/screenie.png
<madnick> thats without fsck
<madnick> and without prompt
<madnick> this is what 99% of users will see 99% of the time
<knome> looks fine to me.
<madnick> me too :P
<charlie-tca> That looks good!
<charlie-tca> let's package it
<madnick> charlie-tca: question is how :\
<madnick> I did a package in 2006 IIRC
<madnick> :P
<knome> let's file a bug about the progress element not being circular right after UI freeze ;)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: how do we get the new plymouth package ready now?
<madnick> knome: :D
<knome> i'm serious.
<charlie-tca> we need help, mr_pouit 
<knome> i want that fixed in o+1
<charlie-tca> got a new lightdm screen and plymouth for oneiric, but don't know how to get it packaged to put into the images and seeds
<charlie-tca> Wishlist, knome 
<knome> i think i'll just file a high priority bug, assigned to me
<knome> ;)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: and we will need a FFe, won't we?
<madnick> Someone said we had one for plymouth
<knome> a new plymouth/light theme isn't exactly a new feature, is it?
<madnick> iirc
<madnick> not really a feature
<madnick> That is true :P
<charlie-tca> Depends on whether or not we ever had one, doesn't it?
<knome> as long as we've seeded plymouth before FF, i don't think a new theme makes a new feature, even if we didn't have plymouth in natty
<knome> but that's just me, and the ubuntu bureaucracy might think differently
<charlie-tca> well, I guess we wait for mr_pouit to give us the answer 
<knome> in any case, i don't think getting a FFe is too hard
<madnick> I need a license dont i :((
<madnick> I just GPL it?
<madnick> put the standard GPL stuff in there
<knome> just use whatever license we've used before
<madnick> so GPL
<knome> from my POV, it could even be PD, but i think mr_pouit has wanted to use GPL ;)
<madnick> Well, there is 1 function i semi stole from the previous script
<madnick> the atoi function
<knome> heh
<madnick> So it will need to be GPL i guess :P
<knome> no problem for me.
<knome> you will actually need to change one more thing on both plymouth and lightdm.
<knome> the wallpaper
<madnick> :O
<madnick> what shall we use instead?
<knome> something i'm working on RIGHT NOW
<madnick> oh ^^
<madnick> I know what I will make for my personal LightDM screen :))
<knome> heh
<charlie-tca> No wallpaper change until it has been approved!
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah
<knome> you can approve it right after it's ready! ;)
<knome> this is going to be awesome
<charlie-tca> madnick: ignore that. We can use it as is
<knome> i know it already
<knome> what?
<knome> :)
<knome> i told i was going to work on a wallpaper this weekend
<madnick> btw, 1 more thing for LightDM
<knome> mm?
<madnick> version number from lsb_release
<madnick> but that will ahve to be a string
<madnick> (todays oneiric had the dev environment tools needed to test lightdm :D)
<charlie-tca> Oh, good
<charlie-tca> knome: why not finish the website, so we can get it up and running before release of oneiric?
<knome> charlie-tca, i do have time today, and tomorrow too. i'm using it all for all this, so i can definitely do both.
<charlie-tca> We really need to get the website done, you know it will take IT a while to get it up for us
<knome> yes.
<knome> i am aware of the whole process we need to go through
<charlie-tca> and, yes, I am aware that a really good wallpaper is desireable for this release. Let's see what you can do. But the website should be a priority, please.
<charlie-tca> I guess that is one of the key things about Xubuntu, we seldom run the same wallpaper twice :)
<madnick> No luck getting --test-mode to run my greeter
<madnick> Wasnt there a way of installing greeters in a simple manner?
<charlie-tca> The only thing I have is:
<charlie-tca> sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --session=xubuntu
<charlie-tca> sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --greeter=lightdm-gtk-greeter
<charlie-tca> if you don't want to override any existing settings, add --keep-old
<charlie-tca> from mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> and it worked to replace the unity-greeter here
<madnick> ok, thanks
<charlie-tca> so much has changed with lightdm, I am not sure any of the docs are right any more.
<mr_pouit> i'm available in ~15 min if you need me :p
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> yes, we need you
<madnick> no, it is a bit of a pain, and even tho there is docs about writing a greeter, some of the source code is plain wrong
<madnick> best thing is to look at the example-gtk-greeter
<charlie-tca> Wrong because of the recent changes, isn't it?
<madnick> Yes to headers
<mr_pouit> for the plymouth/lightdm thing, you can either prepare a tarball for me, or a bzr branch, or look in lp:xubuntu-artwork, or we'll see after :P
<madnick> And also wrong because of actual typos :P
<charlie-tca> madnick: ^  ^  
<madnick> mr_pouit: ill setup a tarball
<charlie-tca> You might have a wallpaper change yet, give it until monday if you can?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: how do we change the logo used on the cd menus?
<charlie-tca> We are still using the old old logo
<madnick> Might as well have a tarball ready that just swaps the bg
<charlie-tca> knome: ^  ^  okay?
<mr_pouit> I filed a bug about that a long time ago, but I forgot about it I guess (and people didn't see it)
<knome> sure
<charlie-tca> I remembered seeing it, but don't know if I can find it
<knome> i think i need to get some more tree-photo-material
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-plymouth.tar.gz
<madnick> thunder :|
<knome> sunshine
<madnick> its been raining for 2 days, like *alot* :)
<knome> heh
<charlie-tca> You have to ping mr_pouit with the url when you are ready to have it added
<knome> i'll ping him today, whether we have a new wall or not
<madnick> okay :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: bug 720652 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 720652 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[Xubuntu] maybe-ubiquity/new greeter support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720652
<mr_pouit> hehe, that's the one
<charlie-tca> I will push it then, starting Monday, and get us an answer
<charlie-tca> Hard to get responses from anyone this weekend
<mr_pouit> madnick: xubuntu-plymouth-text.plymouth seems identical to the current one
<charlie-tca> Oh-oh. That's the one I probably see every boot
<mr_pouit> (just to be sure it's normal :p)
<mr_pouit> and am I expected to use default.plymouth or xubuntu-plymouth.plymouth for xubuntu-logo? :p
<mr_pouit> ^_~
<charlie-tca> madnick: mr_pouit asks the tough questions...
<mr_pouit> (forget about the second question, but I'd rather be sure about the first one before uploading)
<charlie-tca> hm, he's hiding now?
<madnick> wait
<madnick> ill answer sioon mneed to stop cookoing
<madnick> stop cooking*
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> okeydokey
<madnick> ok, stove is off
<madnick> mr_pouit: yes, it just a version change, it's just the text part, its not themeable
<madnick> Its an ascii string
<mr_pouit> okay (I uploaded a new xubuntu artwork package this morning with 11.10 instead of 11.04, that's why they're the same then)
<madnick> ah :)
<mr_pouit> I've renamed xubuntu-plymouth back to xubuntu-logo, as I prefer not to change the existing theme name. I hope you're fine with that
<madnick> Sure
<madnick> It was just when testing I did not want a conflict with the previous one
<madnick> I shouldve packed it differently in the tarball
<madnick> I was just in a little rush :)
<mr_pouit> that was ok ;-)
<mr_pouit> madnick: did you write the script from scratch, or did you reuse something existing?
<mr_pouit> (it's for the debian/copyright)
<madnick> i rewrote everything except
<madnick> the atoi function
<madnick> however there is a minor change to it, i dont remember what but its basically the same atoi functino
<mr_pouit> mmh, I guess I'll keep the (C) 2009 Canonical Ltd. then :P
<madnick> sure
<charlie-tca> So, all this means I see the same black screen with Xubuntu 11.10 now?
<madnick> hehe, we could change the background color, but i dont see the point :P
<madnick> i did not really spend much time with the text version
<madnick> i was focused on the graphical one
<mr_pouit> well, I put black and white because it was easy to do (and when your screen shows some offset at some low resolutions, it's nice with a black background it's not visible)
<mr_pouit> but you can change the colors if you want
<mr_pouit> anyway, thanks for the theme, I'll upload right now
<charlie-tca> yeah, the current black/white is fine. It is not important enough to spend time on
<charlie-tca> Having seen the nightmare that the alternate installer background and lightdm backgrounds become when they start changing colors, I don't think I will be the one to say anything.
<mr_pouit> madnick: (last) question: does your theme include some feedback for fsck? (so I can close Bug #775392)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775392 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "fsck happens silently - this looks like the machine is frozen." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775392
<madnick> mr_pouit: yes
<mr_pouit> I think it does, I just want to be sure
<mr_pouit> nice :)
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: are you still affected by Bug #552000 ? I think plymouth will now fallback to the text theme when it can't display the graphical one properly
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552000 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "xubuntu logo in plymouth splash screen looks like it has spider webs in it" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552000
<charlie-tca> The logo is still cloudy on my old machines
<charlie-tca> It is a direct result of the way it is drawn, though. If we are not changing every place it exists, we can sign it off as "by design".
<charlie-tca> That's what makes the logo bright and shiny looking, too.
<charlie-tca> I finally understand why it does it!
<knome> charlie-tca, with this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/552000/comments/4 we can fix it, just provide an alternative image for lower bit depths
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 552000 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "xubuntu logo in plymouth splash screen looks like it has spider webs in it" [Medium,Triaged]
<knome> oh, mr_pouit already commented stuff, blah
<mr_pouit> mmh?
<knome> nvm
<mr_pouit> okay ^_^
<charlie-tca> I did provide an alternate image, didn't I?
<charlie-tca> Should be attached to the bug report
<knome> hmm. is it pixel edited?
<charlie-tca> probably
<knome> right, we could just export that from the svg file
<charlie-tca> I did it in gimp, where I can blow them up and darken each square
<charlie-tca> so it becomes a one color image, instead of blended
<charlie-tca> You do know you lost me in all this, right?
<charlie-tca> My brain is only partially working today, I guess :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I think knome said he can make it work
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/xubuntu_logo_lowdepth.png
<knome> charlie-tca, ^ a better replacement image for you
<knome> i know it doesn't look like anything, because it's white on white. :P
<knome> i just know it can be done technically, i don't know how exactly do that, but steve langasek told it's possible
<charlie-tca> I can see it! That's really good, knome
<charlie-tca> That is a clear image here, when I put the background black
<charlie-tca> Much nicer to see than the other one.
<mr_pouit> okay, and what do I do with it? :P
<knome> yeah, because it's exported directly from the original vector
<mr_pouit> the theme now includes many images
<madnick> yup
<mr_pouit> so I don't think changing this one only will look as expected
<madnick> However quite small ones :)
<knome> mr_pouit, you write the code that probes if the bit depth is <32bit, and then use that image instead ;)
<mr_pouit> you got the wrong m, use less <tab> :P
 * mr_pouit hides
<knome> ;)
<madnick> That would need to be an external program
<charlie-tca> So, now we made more work for mr_pouit ?
<knome> or madnick 
<madnick> That invokes plymouth
<charlie-tca> simpler to sign it off as "by design team"
<madnick> and sends a status message of screen depth
<madnick> :P
<knome> madnick, but we are talking about plymouth
<knome> ...
<madnick> hm, what is it that you want to be done? i didnt quite understand 
<knome> madnick, use that image for low depth stuff in plymouth, instead of the glowy one
<charlie-tca> We want to determine screen depth or something like that, and then switch graphics depending on screen capability
<charlie-tca> knome: what if we just used that one for the text version, and the glowing one for the graphics version?
<madnick> yes, that would need to be an external call to plymouth with that information
<mr_pouit> bits_per_pixel = Window.GetBitsPerPixel ();
<mr_pouit> from the ubuntu-logo theme :)
<madnick> Oh
<knome> heh, there you go
 * knome offers mr_pouit a biscuit
<madnick> See, the reference did not mention that :)
<mr_pouit> maybe it's ubuntu specific
<knome> maybe
<mr_pouit> (I mean, that would not be the first time they did that)
<knome> o'rly
<charlie-tca> !cookie
<ubottu> Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<charlie-tca> true enough, Ubuntu does do things just to frustrate the rest of us ;)
<mr_pouit> madnick: http://paste.ubuntu.com/671056/
<mr_pouit> here's the test from ubuntu-logo
<madnick> okay
<madnick> shall i put an equiv in?
<mr_pouit> if knome can provide the needed pictures, I guess it's ok
<knome> mr_pouit, let me think... no, i don't think i can ;)
<knome> of course i can
<madnick> But only the logotype?
<knome> i think all the stuff that has the glow
<madnick> its gonna be *alot* if images :)
<knome> i know.
<knome> it's not a big thing though
<knome> but i'll do that a bit later, a short break ->
<charlie-tca> At least the text based screen
<madnick> Why do they do bits_per_pixel==4?
<madnick> isnt that quite very low? :P
<charlie-tca> for people with monitors like mine?
<madnick> No I mean, I dont quite understand bits per pixel, are we talking VGA mode?
 * charlie-tca going hide; sounds like a language he didn't learn yet
<mr_pouit> madnick: apparently, when normal images are supported, it returns 0 ;D
<madnick> oh
<madnick> oh i found a comitt
<madnick> commit*
<madnick> unless i know why it returns 4
<madnick> I should probagbly do == 0) {} else
<mr_pouit> uhm, no, imho you should do what the ubuntu-logo theme does
<madnick> Well, 4 bits per pixel, 16 colors right? Did we not want < 32?
<madnick> 18:20 < knome> mr_pouit, you write the code that probes if the bit depth is  <32bit
<madnick> But Ill just use that version, but I bet there is a reason to it returning 4 :P
<charlie-tca> yes, old monitors won't show right at 32
<mr_pouit> madnick: I also think that ;-)
<charlie-tca> Some of the old monitors only work at 16 color
<charlie-tca> before the file buffers or something is changed
<charlie-tca> or something else I don't understand
<madnick> I wish I could answer, but I never finished my VGA project ( http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/vga.jpg ) other than that I know mostly about pure text mode, because thats what i encountered in my work :\
<charlie-tca> isn't that like building the hardware itself?
<madnick> I do build hardware myself, I was an embeded developer, but the VGA stuff is the same on normal computers as in what i had in mind :)
<mr_pouit> ok, I've uploaded your theme as is
<madnick> oh
<madnick> Okay
<mr_pouit> I'll include the 16bpp fallback tomorrow
<madnick> I made the changes, just waiting on filenames
<madnick> oh okay
<madnick> :)
<mr_pouit> maybe with other fixes if testers report some issues ;-)
<madnick> :D
<madnick> It has been tested
<madnick> Alot ;)
<mr_pouit> huhu
<madnick> So i hope its all in order
<charlie-tca> hueard it all before... :)
<madnick> :D
<mr_pouit> (I also want to see how much oversized we are before adding even more pngs)
<mr_pouit> ah, i386 ships one more langpack, so we can remove it if necessary
<knome> madnick, mr_pouit: let's ship with the old wall
<knome> got to go to bed + stuff
<knome> see you tomorrow
<knome> madnick, i'll export you the low depth stuff tomorrow too
<madnick> knome: okay cool :)
<Unit193> Awww... We don't get to see what he's working on :P
<madnick> :(
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-21
<knome> Unit193, maybe later, when we unveil the new shimmer project wallpaper package
<mr_pouit> so, where are my 16bit pngs and plymouth theme? :P
 * knome hides
<knome> can you probably list all the png's you need?
<mr_pouit> mmh, I prefer if you can see that with madnick ;>
<mr_pouit> (I can list the pngs, but I'm not sure we have to convert all of them)
<madnick> There is 3 glowing things :)
<madnick> The logo, the progress meter, and the progess bar
<mr_pouit> micahg: oops, I put the breaks/replaces in xubuntu-artwork instead of murrine-themes ;]
<knome> madnick, is the fsck bar background stuff the same as in the normal bar?
<madnick> 1 sec
<knome> madnick, and how did you want the fsck bar again? 1px wide, or something else?
<madnick> it should be as it is now :P
<madnick> i dont remember if
<madnick> It was something special about that one, acctually, i have not looked at the images for a while
<knome> hehe
<knome> okay, could you check that?
<knome> .)
<madnick> yes
<knome> thanks
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/progress_meter_16bit.png
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/progressbar_bg_16bit.png
<madnick> Oh its long now, lets keep it long
<knome> you probably need to check the aligning on those
<knome> how long?
<madnick> 145x10px
<madnick> is fsck-fade
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/fsck_bar_16bit.png
<knome> those are all 2px tall
<knome> mr_pouit, madnick: was the livecd logo changed?
<madnick> knome: don't know
<knome> okay
<micahg> mr_pouit: heh, no problem, I fwded it to Debian as well
<madnick> micahg: do you know if plymouth was uploaded? I think he got everything that was needed right?
<micahg> madnick: I see the shutdown and startup screens if that's what you're asking
<madnick> micahg: the new ones :P
<madnick> ?*
<micahg> yes
<madnick> okiedokie :) 
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-13
<holstein> are there xubuntu 12.04.01 release notes? 
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-14
<micahg> bug 962469 is being fixed for 12.04.1 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962469 in blueman (Ubuntu Precise) "blueman-applet crashed with KeyError in card_cb(): 'bluez.path'" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962469
<pleia2> \o/
<smartboyhw> HI!
<smartboyhw> hI!
<knome> smartboyhw, yes?
<pleia2> knome: I'm thinking if we hit 1 month prior to the doc freeze and still don't have progress, we change strategy: just have people spot check existing docs for accuracy (full rewrite stays ongoing, but not for 12.10)
<pleia2> I suspect we really need a doc lead telling people what to do
 * elfy is due to start looking at that tomorrow - it's the top unscribbled item on this enormoud piece of paper
<knome> pleia2, do you think it would be doable if we split the doc lead spot between us two for this month (you were not working this month)?
 * pleia2 is working x 2 and has marketing blueprint items to do :(
<pleia2> not *traveling* this month :)
<knome> huh
<knome> uh oh right
<knome> i thought i were on non-working month :D
<micahg> does anyone remember why we ditched gnome-bluetooth for blueman?
<micahg> ISTR it having to do with useability
<knome> no idea. good reason to go back?
<micahg> hrm, the bug is vague about reasoning...
<micahg> seb128 is recommending we switch back since gnome-bluetooth is better maintained
<knome> aha, is that where ubuntu is going?
<micahg> ubuntu already has it
<micahg> and so did xubuntu before oneiric
<knome> mmh
<knome> size/support difference?
<knome> if not, then i'm all for reverthing
<knome> -h
<knome> i can't remember the exact reason we switched
<micahg> yeah, seb just reminded me, the UI for control is in gnome-control-center
<knome> :|
<stochastic> hi all, can anyone describe for me the changes between 12.04 and 12.04.1?
<knome> stochastic, not much really. just a few bugfixes i think.
<knome> stochastic, or do you mean generally the difference?
<stochastic> any and all differences knome
<stochastic> are most differences part of Ubuntu that have migrated over?
<knome> i don't know the details. but for xubuntu 12.04(.1), it's going to be just bugfixes
<stochastic> okay
<stochastic> thanks
<knome> yes, ubuntu stuff will of course change in xubuntu too
<knome> (and US)
<stochastic> do you know of any major changes from Ubuntu?
<knome> nope, i haven't been following that discussion/development at all really
<stochastic> okay cool
<knome> maybe people in #ubuntu-release could give you at least the big picture
<stochastic> hey knome, I was wanting to ask you if you could put your US website theme's code into launchpad
<knome> it *is* in LP, we should move it under the US teams though
<stochastic> oh, where abouts is it?
<knome> let me find that link for you
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/+junk/ubuntustudio-wordpress
<stochastic> thanks
<knome> if you have any questions about the code, i can probably answer them directly though :)
<knome> (that's just the theme anyway, the rest is default WP stuff)
<stochastic> yeah, there was a question from Len regarding the search function that I clarified for him but in the digging I noticed we didn't have the theme code anywhere visible
<knome> ah
<knome> if it was whether it is google or no; it's not
<knome> it's just site internal search, and it doesn't use google
<stochastic> that's what I was 98% sure of 
 * stochastic is new to wordpress after all
<stochastic> cool
<knome> yeah, there could've been a plugin that does google search of course...
<stochastic> well you've answered all my questions.  I'll try to move that code to the US website team branch soon
<knome> i could try to do that too
<knome> i'm having a long night with FOSS
<stochastic> I'm just getting back into the swing of things and you'll likely see me around a bit more in the future
<knome> great to hear that
<knome> atm US does need all the momentum possible
<stochastic> it always does
<knome> yeah, but tbh, especially now, i think
<stochastic> okay
<knome> (now that scott is unexpectedly away, and there isn't clear leader/structure in the team)
<knome> stochastic, looks like i can't "merge", but i can just push a new version with the new data.
<knome> i imagine we're losing all the history, but that's not too critical IMO
<knome> (all the history for the current branch)
<knome> uh, wrong channel :)
<stochastic> see #ubuntustudio-devel
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-15
<pleia2> but maybe over here
<knome> mmh, true
<pleia2> I like the ones that were originally on the main page, the "new to" ones are kind meh
<pleia2> maybe keep chapter 4 link
<knome> btw, we have this too: file:///usr/share/doc/xfce4-utils/html/C/index.html
<pleia2> oh brother
<pleia2> I forgot about that
<knome> hehe
<knome> well, we can use that...
<knome> :]
<knome> but it's 2008 too.. ;]
<pleia2> yeah, link to it
<pleia2> hah
<knome> (at best.)
<pleia2> maybe they updated it for 4.10 :)
<knome> some parts are 2004
<knome> This manual describes xfwm4 version 4.8.3 
<knome> says the xfwm page, for example
<knome> i think they had the idea to update
<knome> but i'm not sure if anything good came out of that
<knome> we could just rewrite that too.
<knome> ;]
<pleia2> hahah
<knome> it doesn't really seem to take too long to rewrite some stuff.
<pleia2> ok, you sleep on monday, wednesday and friday, I get tuesday, thursday and saturday
<knome> hehe
<knome> do i need to sleep at all if i don't want to?
<pleia2> bits stop working after you don't sleep for a couple days
<knome> not really.
<knome> only after 4 days.
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> I think we ignore xfce for now
<knome> i used to be able to do *months* with a few hours of sleep per night when i was younger...
<pleia2> ah, to be young again!
<knome> yeah. young, arrogant and all that stuff.
<knome> anyway... back to docs
<pleia2> :)
<knome> "backing and support" clearly doesn't deserve its own subpage
<knome> so does not "version and release numbers"
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I think both can go under "What is Xubuntu?"
<knome> yup
<knome> i'll do that.
<pleia2> do we want to create a 3. Installing and upgrading
<pleia2> and pretty much copy docs from the website?
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i'm thinking how much our users would benefit from having "installing" there
<knome> they are already running the cd at least
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> oh but yeah, i suppose we would benefit of such section
<knome> even if it was just upgrading
<pleia2> mostly I was just trying to find a home for upgrading :)
<knome> but maybe we could group that with the existing 3
<knome> "uprading"
<knome> "migrating from other OS'es"
<pleia2> hm
<pleia2> "importing their favorites from Microsoft Internet Explorer 6" hehe, IE6
<knome> "heh"...
<pleia2> remember 2003?!
<pleia2> :)
<knome> i was 17 then
<knome> i suppose i barely do
<pleia2> lol
<knome> that was about when i met my wife
<pleia2> I was 22 and working at a webdev firm, trying to continue supporting IE5 and swearing a lot :x
<pleia2> browser compatibility pain is what made me learn I wasn't cut out for webdev :)
<knome> hah :)
<knome> like IE6 wasn't still a pain...
<knome> ok, see http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/What%20is%20Xubuntu%3F now
<pleia2> maybe just make Upgrading its own thing, I can't think of how to merge it with "if you've been using windows"
<knome> gimme 2mins and i'll tell you
<pleia2> that's nice
<knome> main page "Getting up-to-date"
<knome> "whether you're coming from windows or upgrading your old xubuntu installation..."
<knome> \o/
<knome> well, that's just an idea
<pleia2> ok
<knome> but i don't want too many pages
<pleia2> it does imply that windows isn't up to date :)
<knome> it's just horrible to even look at the old TOC
<knome> heh, well is it? :P
<pleia2> it's certainly not as shiny as linux
<knome> or just "Migrating and Upgrading"
<pleia2> yeah that's good
<pleia2> Migrating from Windows
<pleia2> Upgrading from an older version of Xubuntu
<knome> mental note to self: do not typo page names
<knome> mmh, then we need to suppress those windows pages :)
<knome> hmm
<knome> i just noticed you were editing the page
<knome> :D
<pleia2> haha, sorry
<pleia2> fixed a little typo, I'm out now
<knome> the lock should be a hard lock
<knome> well i updated already :P
<pleia2> no conflicts, we're ok
<knome> hehe, good
<knome> i think the "glossary of windows terms" is actually quite useful, but that isn't quite what the title says
<knome> it's more like a windows-linux dictionary
<pleia2> heh, file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html
<pleia2> yeah, what do you call a thing that translates terms
<knome> dictionary? :P
<knome> isn't that essentially what it is
<knome> we should drop some of the stuff there, but some are good
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> like control panel <> settings manager
<pleia2> I don't think I know enough about Windows anymore
<knome> (and stuff under "system")
<knome> heh :)
<knome> maybe we can ask somebody who does
<pleia2> I don't know people like that
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> the internet has some
<knome> yeah, some
<knome> so
<knome> should i group the windows pages whatsoever
<pleia2> I think maybe the dictionary can be merged with "migrating data"
<pleia2> since we can drop some of them if we do that, because 
<pleia2> "migrating" covers some of them
<knome> hmm
<knome> i wonder if there's some page in the ubuntu community wiki about converting stuff
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromWindows
<knome> ahh
<knome> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Migrating%20from%20Windows is loooong
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that should be much shorter, to not scare people
<knome> the migrating data page does kind of the same thing
<knome> or, describes
<knome> how can it be so much text.
<pleia2> I don't love that the page exists at all to be honest
<knome> yeah, but i imagine it's valuable information for somebody coming from windows
<knome> but yeah, users migrating from windows aren't our main target
<pleia2> I'd rather see a page explaining that Xubuntu is not Windows, here are a few things that are different, see <online docs> for more about specific things
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> what if we start by dropping the converting stuff?
<knome> let's see how it looks after taht
<knome> *that
<pleia2> yeah
 * pleia2 looks at ubuntu docs for inspiration
<pleia2> yeah, they don't mention windows at all ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> do we want a list of things users need to configure their internet?
<knome> isn't that what their operators should do
<pleia2> it should happen with magic
<knome>   ipconfig /all > C:\network_settings.txt
<knome> wut
<knome> :D
<knome> some samba stuff might be cool.
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> or not cool, but actually useful
<pleia2> yeah, enough people want to do shares
<knome> "if there are stil idio^Wusers using windows in your local network, ..."
<pleia2> I use samba, I get all kinds of goofy devices connecting to my share
<knome> yeah, goofy
<knome> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Migrating from Windows
<knome> sad.
<knome> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Migrating%20Your%20Data%20Into%20Xubuntu
<knome> so that then
<knome> what do we want to keep?
<knome> i imagine we could replace the loooong files section with a simple table
<knome> glossary-style
<knome> "where are my files"
<pleia2> photos and music are obsolete
<pleia2> does windows have a photo manager?
<knome> "Xubuntu does not include a powerful photo manager by default."
<knome> ERR
<knome> wrong
<knome> :D
<knome> even if we didn't, DON'T SAY THAT
<knome> obsolete, but should we rewrite them?
<pleia2> I think we just delete the photos thing, windows doesn't do any better by default
<pleia2> afaik
<pleia2> same with music I think
<knome> hmm.
<pleia2> they just live in directories and you clicky on files to make them go
<knome> i think we could have a small section on default apps
<knome> "how to add your music to gmb"
<knome> "how to import your settings to firefox"
<knome> and just really quickly go through that
<knome> and link to online, app-maintained, docs
<pleia2> but that should go in 5. Music, Video and Photos
<pleia2> not in windows part
<knome> and do that on *one page*, so we don't have to go through everything if we change our default apps
<knome> yeah.
<knome> what about new section
<pleia2> like so maybe, under Music - Xubuntu offers gmb to organize your music, see [[Music]]
<knome> "Quick guide to the default applications"
<knome> and link to each one's one docs
<knome> and add some really useful/common tasks
<pleia2> ok
<knome> i'm just thinking what should we have there
<knome> probably tb/ff import and that gmb collection thing
<knome> what else?
<pleia2> so we put "Office" and "Music, Video and Photos" under that subheading
<knome> possibly yes...
<knome> and definitely yes too :P
<pleia2> :)
<knome> but what else would there be to it?
<knome> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/musicvideophotos.html#music
<knome> that's quite a lot of stuff
<pleia2> aww exaile
<knome> Download Music from the Internet
<knome> :|
<knome> and then there's some mic troubleshooting
<knome> that's just a mess :D
<knome> do we need rip/burn audio cd?
<pleia2> hrm
<knome> rip is exaile too, btw
<knome> i don't think we ship anything to rip cd's by default
<knome> gmb with a plugin might do it, but i'm not certain
<pleia2> I think if we don't do it out of the box, just drop it
<knome> mmh
<knome> i created a new section, 5 def apps
<pleia2> okie
<knome> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/office-document-templates.html
<knome> huh?
<knome> we don't even ship 3/4 of those apps by default
<knome> ever shipped
<knome> that's out
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> I think I'm in "delete everything" mode now, I don't think I can do this for much longer tonight :)
<knome> did you just say to*night*? :P
<pleia2> this evening? :)
<knome> hehe.
<knome> maybe we should start writing something then.
<pleia2> I do have some blueprint questions before you go sleepies
<knome> i'm not going too soon
<knome> but go ahead ;)
<pleia2> on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-website-improvements we have a couple that I think may be done
<pleia2> [xubuntu-website] Cleanup and review website: INPROGRESS
<knome> what about /about ? : /
<pleia2> aha, wasn't gridcube working on that?
<knome> i can't remember he was
<knome> but didn't beardygnome write a draft of that ages ago?
<pleia2> ah, yes
<pleia2> ok, I'll dig up drafts
<pleia2> any other pages? I think we got most everything else
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Website/Drafts
<knome> that would be it
<pleia2> oh good
<knome> hmm, about/ and contribute/development/
<pleia2> hrm, I suppose /contribute/translating/ still needs love
<knome> those are the standing issues
<pleia2> ok
<knome> probably that too, though i went through it and gave as much love as i could
<knome> i don't know too much about translating, and i don't know if anybody does
<pleia2> how about the wiki, any work to be done there? I think we deleted almost everything :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> well, we have about/ there too
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> alright, but I think that's it
<pleia2> we should review that /About, merge the two and delete the wiki page
<knome> probably yes.
<pleia2> then we will be done with the wiki!
<knome> yeah, plus the testcases need to be moved
<knome> they are still on the wiki
<pleia2> yeah, what's the holdup there?
<knome> lazyness i suppose
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> and the lack of "general test intro"
<knome> see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-qa-procedures for those things
<pleia2> I don't mind doing it, but I don't want to upset QA people by doing the wrong thing :)
<knome> we shouldn't copy them to the QA wiki
<knome> they've built stuff to integrate all that to the ISO tracker
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> but that's not so much a wiki issue
<knome> i'm okay with marking the wiki stuff DONE once about/ is ok
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> wiki AND "community wiki" I think, since it's turned only into a development wiki really
<knome> no
<pleia2> oh
<knome> with community wiki...
<knome> i mean the community help wiki
<pleia2> oh, help.ubuntu?
<knome> there's some xubuntu-categorized stuff
<knome> yes
<pleia2> I haven't even looked at those
<knome> we should go through those and see how current that is
<pleia2> ok
<knome> and maybe see if there's something else worth categorizing under xubuntu
<knome> probably search for all pages that say "xfce" or "xubuntu"
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> there isn't a lot of the categorized pages
<pleia2> ok, going through that will help some with docs in general anyway
<knome> yes
<knome> now wait a minute
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/index.html
<knome> this didn't look like this the last time i checked? :P
<pleia2> spiffy huh? :)
<knome> oh,hah
<knome> that was the official document
<knome> huh
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingXubuntu
<pleia2> I love how their search doesn't search the wiki
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryXubuntu
<knome> there we go.
<knome> that. isn't. much.
<knome> that's like so little i would just like to delete that all.
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> seriously, what is there for us :P
<knome> compiz installation guide
<knome> :P
<knome> but sounds quite general
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Xubuntu_Prior_to_10.10
 * pleia2 facepalm
<pleia2> kind of silly
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah
<knome> go delete that.
<knome> ;]
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XubuntuPanels
<knome> that sounds like something we should consider adding to our blog as an article
<knome> and tag with FAQ
<knome> i suppose that's pretty much the only sensible thing in the community wiki about xubuntu
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> huh, does this work? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager#Xubuntu_10.04.2C_10.10.2C_11.04_and_11.10_12.04
<knome> i have no idea
<pleia2> suppose I could test it on my laptop
<knome> compiz has never been supported any way under xubuntu
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> people have it working, but i'm not sure if i still want that on an official wiki
<knome> well, official/community
<pleia2> it covers all the flavors, so I'm inclined to leave it if it works
<knome> the whole tutorial is poorly written
<knome> "all the flavors"
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingXubuntu isn't so horrible as a thing, but it needs to be rewritten
<knome> what about ubuntu studio? :)
<pleia2> DEs? :)
<knome> don't we have the installing guide on our website?
<pleia2> sort of
<knome> merge those
<pleia2> k
<knome> well, again just an idea
<knome> but why maintain two versions
<pleia2> so /getxubuntu is the closest we have to an install page
<knome> heh.
<knome> let me look at the CW page
<knome> Installation process
<knome> The installation process for Xubuntu is basically the same as for Ubuntu. Please refer to the Ubuntu Installation Guide for more information. 
<knome> there isn't much else to it
<knome> "Unlike the Windows family of operating systems, an early machine does not require an early version of Ubuntu. If you are installing Xubuntu on an old PC or with early hardware, jump straight to the most recent version. It is not necessary to hunt down an old version of Ubuntu to use your PC. One of the newest (that is, supported) versions is the appropriate one."
<knome> not completely true either, if your pc is ancient
<pleia2> blah blah blah
<knome> (and some willing to use xubuntu has those)
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that guide simply isn't very useful imo
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstalandoXubuntu_ES
<knome> heh.
<knome> Candidate for Deletion
<pleia2> the german one too
<knome> yup.
<knome> is the community wiki EN only?
<pleia2> no, but EN is most maintained (which says a lot about the others :x)
<knome> heh
<knome> again, i wouldn't mind all the pages deleted
<pleia2> yeah, I'll go through them a bit more to see if there are nuggets we can pull out
<knome> and if somebody else has gone through the non-EN pages and think they might be removed, maybe delete those at least.
<knome> until we can really enable translations on xubuntu.org, we can create some subpages for other-language guides, if those are useful
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> or translate an essential part of the site
<knome> mostly i think the site is quite easy to read if you have the least english skills
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> ok, and I didn't make a marketing blueprint, so while I have todo list items there it's not blueprint critical
<knome> :)
<knome> what kind of stuff?
<pleia2> still have to define our marketing target, and collect info for handouts
<knome> what about putting that under strategy document (#1)
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-review-strategy-document
<pleia2> marketing target is different than general target
<knome> but isn't that still kind of under the same umbrella?
<pleia2> maybe
<knome> if you want, we could just create the blueprint too
<knome> i'm sure we can find other things we want to list there at a later stage
<knome> especially if we get far enough with the handouts and other stuff like that
<pleia2> well, I did actually do a fair amount that wasn't blueprint tracked and probably should have been
<pleia2> like make and ship stickers, make pins, made a trial t-shirt
<knome> you can add those too to the blueprint.
<knome> just list them as done and it'll be fine
<knome> or if you don't want to list, that's okay too :P
<pleia2> yeah, I should, it'll make it look like I did stuff!
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, you're currently not even listed!
<knome> btw, things under xubuntu-web and those; feel free to change the assignee to yourself if you complete an item
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> ok
<knome> ideally, i'd like all items to have a person as an assignee when we release 12.10
<pleia2> other-q-xubuntu-marketing ?
<knome> that way we can actually track who did stuff
<knome> yup, that sounds fine :)
<knome> we're going to have to poke skaet or somebody else to make it accepted for quantal :)
<knome> or wait
<knome> can i do that? :o
<knome> just ping me once you've actually created the blueprint and i'll look
<pleia2> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-marketing
<knome> ah, it's still just proposed
<knome> :)
<knome> actually, i have to be the approver
<pleia2> oh ok
<knome> i
<knome> i'll set you as the drafter
<pleia2> alright, that's sorted
<knome> ...aaand it's linked from the roadmap
<pleia2> now I feel better about what I'm supposed to be doing :)
<knome> good :)
<knome> so, you up for some more docs stuff?
<knome> :P
<pleia2> oh right, -art
<knome> heh, yeah
<pleia2> I think I need to take a computer break
<knome> how long would that be? :P
<pleia2> probably one ST:TOS long
<knome> lol
<knome> like that was off-computer... :)
<knome> have fun :)
<pleia2> it is! I walk over there to the couch and watch the tv :)
<knome> let's see if i'm *still* online...
<pleia2> hehe, ok
<pleia2> bbiab
<knome> might go for an all-nighter...
<knome> hah, looking at the ultrabook monitor after watching these dells for hours, ohhh it's so lousy...
<pleia2> knome: still about?
<knome> umm :)
<knome> yeah!
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> I am being picked up for dinner in a little bit, but I have some time
<knome> see the docs front
<pleia2> "More reading around Xubuntu" is kind of awkward
<knome> feel free to change the name
<knome> but look at the page first
<knome> to grasp an idea what we could say there
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> something like "More about what Xubuntu is built on" or something
<knome> quite long :|
<knome> just "more reading"
<knome> ?
<knome> or "what xubuntu *REALLY* is?"
<knome> :P
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> "More about Xubuntu"
<knome> yeah, but in a way it's not about xubuntu
<knome> what if we added say ubuntu (or a link to the derivatives page) or shimmer project there
<knome> that's the kind of thing i'm looking after
<knome> that's why "around"
<knome> hmm
<knome> "Learn more about the things behing Xubuntu"
<pleia2> hm, maybe "Related projects" ?
<knome> behind too
<pleia2> "things" :)
<knome> heh
<pleia2> need a better word
<pleia2> Learn more about what makes Xubuntu
<knome> mmh
<knome> yeah, that could work
<pleia2> I don't think I agree that "Add/Remove Programs" is analogous to the software center, Windows doesn't have anything so awesome (there has been talk of a windows app store, but I don't think it really exists yet)
<knome> yeah, i think we need to review that
<knome> we probably just want more than A = B anyway
<pleia2> windows people just clicky clicky around the internet and install random cr..stuff
<knome> i just dropped those there
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i think those are the ones which we should keep
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> this looks good
<knome> yeah, it looks better than i hoped about 10 hours ago
<knome> every deleted (striked) link should now have a footnote
<knome> and pretty much every alive link should have one too
<pleia2> great
<knome> and every link should point to 12.10/something
<knome> the footnotes should desribe how i've moved stuff around
<knome> +c
<pleia2> yeah, that's good
<knome> huho
<knome> i'm wondering if i should stay awake or try to sleep some
<pleia2> probably sleep :)
 * pleia2 dinner
<knome> bon appetit
<Unit193> On the calendar, it has the meeting listed at 1800 local time, whereas it is at 1100 local time.
<smartboyhw> ...
<Unit193> Yes?  Is there something we can help you with?
<smartboyhw> Nope
<Unit193> So the point of that was what?
<knome> Unit193, it's 15UTC, whatever the calendar says ;)
<Unit193> Yeah, oddly enough, I'm looking at two that say something different (from each other, one agrees with you and I figured somehow the second is goofed...)
<knome> :)
<knome> well, the meeting's always been 15utc
<knome> mail is lagging
<knome> bah
<Unit193> Yeah, one calendar is showing those events in UTC time, but the rest of the events in local time, weird.
<knome> :|
<malv> daily reminder: fix for 12.04 branch still has yet to be committed. Fix requires 10 minutes of time to complete. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1001936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<malv> preserve my sanity, make Xubuntu a viable Ubuntu alternate. Thank you
<malv> mr_pouit: btw, this is mostly directed at you
<knome> not really.
<malv> btw, you should be proud that a great person like me has decided to use XFCE as his default DE
<knome> uhm?
<malv> you can put that in your testimonials
<malv> knome: yes?
<knome> we won't.
<malv> awww, too bad
<malv> knome: rationale for not porting the patch to 12.04?
<malv> it applied directly, btw
<knome> i didn't speak of that
<malv> applies*
<knome> i just told we won't add you to the testimonials.
<malv> oh, =(
<malv> there is a 99% chance I am Linus
<knome> there's not; and this is useless
<malv> "this" referring to?
<knome> the more you try to lie to us and the more you have an arrogant attitude, the less i feel like getting that bug fixed, even if it affects me too.
<malv> LOL
<knome> this referring to this discussion; it's just pointless
<Sysi> was this guy banned from #xubuntu already? he's trolled half of channels I'm in, apparently wants to keep up the series
<malv> you guys don't really want to apply a patch that causes spurious window teleportations?
<malv> are you serious?
<malv> i am trying to help you here
<knome> malv, we got the message.
<knome> malv, is there something else we can do to help you?
<malv> I don't think you have, because I have been banging on this bug ever so slightly the past 3 months
<knome> patches/contributions *are* always welcome
<malv> if you are going to tell me that the offical XFCE stance is that you will not fix this bug, I will gladly direct my energy elsewhere
<knome> we don't have any official xfce stance. we are the xubuntu development team.
<malv> the patch is there
<malv> you just need to apply it to the 12.04 branch
<Sysi> if you want it so badly, grab 4.10 packages
<malv> 12.04 is the LTS release. The patch need to be ported to 12.04
<malv> I already fixed it on my end
<malv> the general point is ensuring that XFCE becomes a viable DE
<knome> fine. then is there something else you need help with?
<Sysi> so you want to cause unnecessary noise?
<malv> oh, jesus christ, I am trying to help you here because I like XFCE
<malv> why are you giving me flac
<malv> just fix it or dont
<knome> you are wasting our time with continuing the discussion; we got the message, we have seen the bug and the patch; we have applied for an exception to get it in .1
<Sysi> how's making unnecessary noise "helping"
<knome> is there something else you need help with, or can we continue on fixing other bugs and issues in xubuntu?
<malv> I am not making unnecessary noise. I have been patient for 3 months.
<malv> I administer a research lab and have chosen XFCE as the default DE.
<malv> certain researchers in this lab have brought this bug to my attention and I told them I would work to have it fixed
<Sysi> linus and head of research lab, awesome.
<malv> not a head of a research lab
<malv> merely administer it
<malv> just tell me to f-off and we're done here
<knome> malv, good luck with your choice; we have heard your issue
<malv> are you going to fix it?
<malv> after I have probably spend at least 4 hours of my time trying to get it fixed?
<knome> did you read at all what i wrote earlier? try to read the backscroll.
<malv> I have no idea what this means: "we have applied for an exception to get it in .1"
<knome> "if possible, we will fix it in .1"
<malv> .1 of what?
<Sysi> you just said you've been patient for months, now you say you've just ranted for hours
<malv> I spent only 4 hours of my time following up on this bug
<knome> malv, well, probably don't need an exception for 14.04.1 yet
<malv> how come you cannot apply a simple patch to 12.04?
<malv> it's an LTS release
<knome> malv, we will fix the bug for 12.04.1 if possible
<malv> what are the protocols for submitting fixes to LTS releases?
<malv> is there a reason for why it takes longer
<knome> i have no motivation to keep up the discussion; ubuntu governancy and other LTS based reading can be found in the internet
<malv> fyi, that kind of attitude does not lead people to support your software endeavors
<malv> I like to think you hope to make XFCE popular
<malv> overall it is a good DE
<malv> and it is in a very good position to become a mainstream DE
<malv> and this bug, I am telling you, shatters the professional facade of XFCE
<malv> teleporting windows is a real deal breaker to any serious desktop users
<malv> so please fix it... I'm done
<Pjotr> Hello, I have a configuration request:
<Pjotr> The tooltips in the lower panel of the desktop ("the dock"), are a bit of a nuisance. They obscure big chunks of the panel, and are therefore counterproductive.
<Pjotr> It's easy to switch them off, but I think they should be switched off by default. What do you think?
<knome> the icons are not 100% self-explanatory for new users
<knome> and the tooltips are only visible when hovering
<smartboyhw> I agree with knome
<smartboyhw> Hi knome! How are you today?
<knome> i'm fine
<Pjotr> knome: they explain themselves, when you first start an application.... Afterwards, they are just aggravating... Render the lower panel much less useful. 
<Pjotr> so all in all, I'd like to see them disabled by default. :-)
<Sysi> that's your personal opinion
<Sysi> and it's easy to change like you said
<knome> i don't use the dock-like panel myself either, but i think it's good for newcomers, and the tooltips definitely aren't unnecessary
<smartboyhw> I like the dock
<Pjotr> Sysi: for me, yes. But maybe not for beginners.
<smartboyhw> Uh oh, emergency maintence on Launchpad tmr
<Sysi> clearness is better than minor fixable annoyance
<Pjotr> smartboyhw: I like the dock, too. :-)
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: I think I fixed the bug you sent in for parole.  Want to test it again?
<Sysi> Pjotr: then again, for a new user it's annoying to not have tooltips, if you don't know what are those launchers
<Pjotr> Sysi: launch once and you know it. Without tooltips.
<knome> i don't think a user should need to launch an application to know what it does
<Sysi> Pjotr: tooltip is much nicer, then again, that's just an opinion
<Sysi> removing them would benefit more advanced users like you, who can change it anyway
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: (In the latest git master that is)
<knome> hey bluesabre :)
<knome> meeting in 80mins
<bluesabre> I'll be here :)
<knome> good
 * bluesabre should make sure his blueprint items are up-to-date.
<knome> that would be great
<knome> atm it looks we're lagging behind
<knome> but i think the situation is rather good anyway
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> knome, question: If we get parole 0.3.0 into debian and ubuntu,  we can pull in 0.3.0.1 after feature freeze, right?
<knome> if 0.3.0.1 is just bugfix release; yes
<bluesabre> Good deal
<knome> we need to specify every bug that 0.3.0.1 fixes though, at least in some level
<bluesabre> It seems like most of the problems are only seen on arch, things are working great in xubuntu for parole
<bluesabre> Sure thing.  I'll be sure to address that in the release notes
<knome> great
<knome> i'm sure you know but FF is aug 23, not a long time to get the pkg to debian and ubuntu :)
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> I'm going to be bugging mr_pouit alot between now and then
<knome> heh
<knome> i suppose micahg can be of help too, if he has time
<knome> micahg or mr_pouit, you around?
<knome> Xubuntu community meeting in about an hour at #xubuntu-devel. Everybody welcome! Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<smartboyhw> knome: I'll see if I can come
<knome> ok
<knome> out for throwing the garbage and a quick walk
<smartboyhw> ...
<knome> be back in <30
<knome> i'm back
<elfy> I'll put the kettle on then
<knome> heh :)
 * knome drinks coke
 * elfy doesn't 
<knome> walked to the store and went to buy a bottle :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> the thing is, i should really eat something today too
<knome> pleia2, good morning sunshine
<smartboyhw> Waiting for meeting now
<GridCube> ETA to meeting?
<knome> 10ish minutes
<GridCube> :)
<smartboyhw> 8 minutes here
<GridCube> can we have an announcement on our media outlets? (twitter, g+, etc)
<knome> i can do twitter, but not the rest
<smartboyhw> Where's the twitter site
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu
<knome> GridCube, twitter done
<smartboyhw> Thanks
<GridCube> :D
<knome> at least pleia2 said she's attending, so let's wait for people to show up
 * pleia2 yawns and puts on some coffee
<knome> hello! :)
 * smartboyhw waves at everybody
<bluesabre> T-1?
<knome> apparently i like to do things in a rush. cooking some tortellinis now ;)
<smartboyhw> T-1:)
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: either of you around?
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 15 15:01:21 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #chair pleia2 
<meetingology> Current chairs: knome pleia2
<GridCube> o/
<knome> astraljava, you around?
<astraljava> Yes, just booted.
<knome> great! i'll chair you
<knome> #chair astraljava 
<meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava knome pleia2
<knome> (i'll be the chair, but just in case...)
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> let's see
<knome> #nick xubuntu-team
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker
<knome> has anybody had time to look at that?
<astraljava> Not me.
<pleia2> yeah, hang on
<knome> ok sure :)
<pleia2> ochosi was working on that, grabbing notes :)
<knome> remember you can use #info and #action :)
<pleia2> #info 16:37 < ochosi> knome, mr_pouit: let me add this to the "do away with xscreensaver, instead just use a lock-thingy", this is how far lightdm is in that respect: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-lock-screen
<pleia2> #info < ochosi> i.e. not very far. i've been looking out for alternatives, and to be honest, none of them is working extra-smooth or great-looking
<pleia2> #info I asked if there were others to try < ochosi> xlockmore, xlockmore-gl, xtrlock, i3lock
<knome> lightdm-lock doesn't look good at all :|
<knome> should we do some testing on those options then?
<pleia2> yeah, I'd say so
<knome> i imagine we wanted just a black screen, so no need for screensaver features
<knome> or anything else fancy!
<pleia2> #info < pleia2> is keeping xscreensaver and just defaulting to blank xscreensaver+screen lock an option?
<astraljava> Well, sure can, but if they don't look/work very well, I don't see it a wise replacement for xscreensaver.
<smartboyhw> knome: Sorry to interrupt, I want a screensaver on my lock screen
<pleia2> #info < ochosi> sure < pleia2> I think that may be as close as we can get until lightdm gets sorted
<knome> smartboyhw, you are free to install gnome-screensaver or so
<Sysi> what's problem with xscreensaver?
<pleia2> that's where things pretty much ended up
<knome> keeping xscreensaver is probably the wisest choice, if that's doable
<smartboyhw> I agree. Black screen on lock...:(
<knome> astraljava, would you be able to be the assignee on that?
<astraljava> I suppose, why not.
<knome> (xss because of no regressions at least, and no testing other apps)
<knome> great!
<GridCube> xscreensaver with black screen
<knome> do we need to vote on this or should we vote?
<knome> eh
<knome> do we agree or should we vote, i mean
<GridCube> vote
<astraljava> Let's provide better results from testing before we vote.
<smartboyhw> Count me in for the testing, astraljava!
<knome> astraljava, can you explain a bit further? :)
<pleia2> will someone take an action item to test xlockmore, xlockmore-gl, xtrlock, i3lock ?
<astraljava> Was just thinking that maybe I should provide a more detailed report, or is that from ochosi enough?
<knome> didn't we just decide to keep with xscreensaver and just disable screensavers by default?
<knome> i thought the others weren't as appealing
<astraljava> Ahh... sorry, I'm reading it wrong, then.
<astraljava> Ok, just vote.
<knome> and from the testing point of view, xss would be easiest, because it would be just a changed setting
<knome> so, what are we voting then?
<knome> option 1) is xss with black screen
<knome> does anybody disagree with that, and with what option?
<astraljava> Going once...
<mr_pouit> (xss should already use a blank screen by default)
<bluesabre> xss with black screen is good for me if we enable monitor power management
<mr_pouit> (or at least, we ship a config file for that, maybe it doesn't work)
<knome> okay, it's probably working, as i haven't seen any screensaver on my laptop
<bluesabre> (Nothing quite like a bright black screen)
<Sysi> is xss so big it's worth removing, if there aren't very good alternatives
<pleia2> Sysi: just feels a bit overkill to have a screensaver app just to do screen locking :)
<pleia2> when screen locking programs exist... but if they aren't so good...
<knome> what's xss size then?
<Sysi> it also allows user swithiching and that's good functionality
<pleia2> I think that's why we were hoping lightdm's implementation would be done
<knome> the size?
<pleia2> knome: features like user switching, presumably lightdm locking does it too since it's the session manager :)
<astraljava> apt-cache show xscreensaver: <snip> Size: 273538
<knome> mmh. unfortunately that's not available yet, and tbh, i don't have high hopes for even R
<knome> astraljava, what's that in -h ? :P
<astraljava> bah
<knome> 273KB?
<knome> i think that's doable.
<knome> does anybody have any other option we should vote about?
<mr_pouit> screen locking/user switching is already in lightdm, iirc I played a bit with it (gtk-greeter lacks a special ui for that though)
<Sysi> screen locker apps are a bit confusing, though i3lock would let to set image telling to type password to unlock
<knome> Sysi, i imagine an image is not translatable :|
<Sysi> yeah
<knome> if there is no other options, let's move forward
<knome> no action needs to be taken, yay
<Sysi> otherly you just get bell beeps and wonder what's happening, if you don't figure out to type passwd and press enter
<knome> yeah :)
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management 
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management
<knome> anybody worked on that?
<GridCube> nope
<astraljava> Me neither.
<knome> anybody willing to be the assignee instead of lousily leaving it to xubuntu-team?
<GridCube> i would not know what to do with that
<pleia2> are there specific complaints about our current settings?
<knome> tbh, i can't remember when this action item is added
<knome> or why
<GridCube> a setting i know is bothersome with monitor power management is that parole doesnt stop it while a movie is played on fullscreen so it shuts down in the middle of the play
<knome> right
<knome> so maybe that's a more precise description
<pleia2> I think that's a bug rather than something to do with default settings
<astraljava> That's a parole bug, IMHO.
 * bluesabre hides
<knome> GridCube, is that with parole, vlc, both, or others?
<GridCube> ok, i just said thats the only thing i can think about that aspect
<mr_pouit> I uploaded parole 0.3.0 today to quantal, maybe that's fixed, I didn't retest that
<GridCube> i dont remember knome 
<knome> mr_pouit, \o/
 * astraljava glares at bluesabre
<bluesabre> It's not fixed just yet
<GridCube> i disabled it because it bothered me too mcuh
<knome> ok
<mr_pouit> eh
<bluesabre> Hopefully parole 0.3.0.1
<knome> bluesabre, mr_pouit, well, bugfix release then. i'll do the FFe's
<knome> (unless it lands before FF)
<bluesabre> I'll get busy on that
<knome> great!
<knome> #action bluesabre fixes Parole letting screen to go black while in fullscreen mode and fixes it for 0.3.0.1
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre fixes Parole letting screen to go black while in fullscreen mode and fixes it for 0.3.0.1
<knome> #subtopic Enable or disable compositor by default?
<astraljava> Sorry, no results yet.
<knome> we've had this in at least two meetings, should we just vote?
<knome> i think this is more about preferences than actual problems with many users
<knome> we should probably look at how xfce/xfwm is started on the live CD, because we have the grey areas there
<astraljava> True. I should write on our -users ML and ask for usage stats.
<bluesabre> Wasn't there a consideration to just disable it in the live cd?
<knome> or if possible, disable compositor on the "install xubuntu without testing" -mode
<Sysi> compositing causes tearing in videos and games
<knome> bluesabre, that too.
<GridCube> disable
<GridCube> i been having some problems with composition lately too, dragged windows keep them selfs in transparent mode no matter what from time to time, i have not find a way to replicate it
<knome> if we disable compositing by default, we have to rethink the bottom dock-like panel
<bluesabre> ochosi uses a nice background image in his greybird release image
<knome> i think disabling it by default might bring us more headache than keeping with it, and trying to fix what it breaks now
<knome> bluesabre, i think that bg image works, but it's not as good as the translucent panel, i think
<bluesabre> Yeah
<knome> astraljava, would either of you look into disabling compositor on live CD?
<astraljava> Right, sure.
<knome> #Action astraljava to look into disabling compositor on live CD
<meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to look into disabling compositor on live CD
<knome> so let's wait until at least the next meeting before we vote
<knome> investigate, then act! :)
<bluesabre> Why not act, then investigate?  :P
<knome> #subtopic Blueprint: Add more launchers to Settings Manager
<knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps
<knome> i think we're at voting stage with this blueprint
<knome> please look through the specification wikipage and shout out loud if you think something in that list should *NOT* be listed under the settings manager
<knome> was it Q or R when jockey is going under software-properties?
<elfy> it is now 
<knome> ok, so that's an obsolete item
<bluesabre> I agree with ochosi's not on the bottom of removing the settings submenu
<astraljava> What's the status of blueman?
<knome> micahg, ?
<knome> bluesabre, wait, do you mean you think the submenu should be removed or not? :)
<bluesabre> submenu should go away, leave a shortcut for the Settings Manager
<knome> i'm not 100% sure about compizconfig-settings-manager
<knome> is ubuntuone working with xfce/xubuntu?
<bluesabre> Yeah, ubuntuone works
<knome> ok, then ok to keep that too
<knome> anybody else thinks something shouldn't be added to the settings manager?
<knome> opinions on compiz-settings-manager?
<GridCube> :( so much lag
<GridCube> i like how it looks :)
<GridCube> its personal? if it is and it brings options then it should go there
<Sysi> compiz is not any *buntu really, but if *all* settings are there..
<knome> well, software-sources isn't personal either
<elfy> knome: I don't see the need to have it listed - it's not supported so why leave a link for it 
<knome> i'm thinking the same as elfy
<knome> but if somebody installs compiz, is that link visible at all?
<GridCube> it should
<elfy> it used to leave a menu item in system (in gnome) 
<GridCube> many, many, many people like compiz
<knome> of course it should, but if we drop the settings-submenu and don't include it in settings manager, *will* it be visible?
<knome> anybody knows?
 * GridCube doesnt know
<elfy> you want me to check
<knome> elfy, if you can
<knome> i'm imagining it won't
<elfy> 2 secs
<Sysi> shouldn't it (re)create that submenu, if we remove items from it instead of just hiding it
<knome> Sysi, yes, if we do it like that, but to remove items from that is much harder than just dropping the menu
<knome> and i don't know how alacarte handles those "don't lists"
<elfy> it dropped it into the settings menu
<knome> elfy, but you didn't *remove* the settings menu ?:)
<knome> ohai micahg! :)
<elfy> didn't do anything knome - the setup here is vanilla as far as menu's goes 
<knome> ah yes, that's the issue; we're thinking of changing the menus
<micahg> blueman SRU should make it into 12.04.1
<knome> and we're keeping blueman? :)
<micahg> do we have a replacement?
<knome> didn't you talk about gnome-bluetooth or so? but no, not really
<elfy> here I have Settings Manager and a whole list of seperate settings listed - a lot of duplicates
<micahg> gnome-bluetooth uses gnome-control-center, do you want that?
<knome> micahg, no.
<knome> so, should we vote of keeping or dropping the compiz item first?
<knome> then let's see if that's technically possible
<knome> #vote Add (+1) or don't add (-1) compizconfig-settings-manager to the Xfce settings manager
<meetingology> Please vote on: Add (+1) or don't add (-1) compizconfig-settings-manager to the Xfce settings manager
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from knome
<elfy> knome: in my opinion there should be no duplicates in the settings list 
<elfy> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from elfy
<astraljava> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from astraljava
<GridCube> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from GridCube
<GridCube> or is it
<GridCube> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
<knome> either one works
<knome> even -0 does
<GridCube> mmkay
<knome> or +-0 iirc...
<knome> :P
<pleia2> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
<bluesabre> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from bluesabre
<knome> others?
<DominicLow> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from DominicLow
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Add (+1) or don't add (-1) compizconfig-settings-manager to the Xfce settings manager
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:4 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion denied
 * micahg would -1 that too :)
<knome> does anybody think we should vote on other items on the list?
<knome> referring to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps
<astraljava> I didn't see any that made me go mad.
<Sysi> what if there's something else that needs settings-submenu
<knome> Sysi, we'll just sort that out
<knome> maybe we could then have settings manager, and if items outside that should go under settings menu, that too
<knome> i imagine that's possible
<elfy> I'm a bit confused as to why things are in setting manager AND the list in that settings menu
<knome> so, who's willing to be the assignee to do this change? (make sure the items appear at settings manager?)
<knome> elfy, that can be taken care of too, i think
<GridCube> cant there be a "others" and all other goes there
<GridCube> ?
<knome> GridCube, items need to be specifically added to the settings manager, they don't appear there automatically
<Sysi> having compiz in settings manager doesn't seem directly bad, except being like gnome/unity and not really supported
<GridCube> oh, i though it was like the items in the configuration submenu of the start menu
<GridCube> nevermind me then
<elfy> I feel the same about wine as I do compiz 
<knome> elfy, wine is fine; it's not specifically supported, but it's not quite unsupported either
<knome> assignee for adding the items to settings manager??
<knome> assigning to -team then for now
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to add launchers specified in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps to xfce settings manager
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to add launchers specified in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps to xfce settings manager
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to make sure other "settings" launchers will show up if needed
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to make sure other "settings" launchers will show up if needed
<knome> so next item!
<knome> #subtopic Encryption required for testing on milestones?
<knome> astraljava, i think this is yours?
<knome> or at least concerns your stuf
<knome> +f
<astraljava> Yes, probably. Postpone to the next one, please.
<astraljava> I'll look into it during this coming weekend.
<knome> ok :)
<knome> #subtopic Testcases feedback
<knome> this? :)
<astraljava> Haven't received any, but ISO tracker querying is on my TO-DO also for this coming weekend.
<knome> we should call for testing
<knome> will you do that on the weekend?
<astraljava> I did, for precise point release.
<astraljava> Didn't I?
<knome> do we have a lot of tests?
<elfy> I think so 
<bluesabre> I saw it
<knome> yes, you did
<astraljava> I'll do another for Beta-1.
<knome> i looked into the ISO tracker today, and saw one test
<knome> is that our daily average? :/
<astraljava> Yeah, but I need to figure out the scripts for querying the data from all previous builds.
<knome> ok
<astraljava> We aren't getting many tests for dailies.
<knome> we could look together at updating the testcases in the tracker.
<astraljava> But that's normaly.
<astraljava> -y
<knome> (re: the mail today about it)
<elfy> I had to slow down I'm afraid 
<astraljava> For milestones, we get more.
<knome> ok, that's good at least
<knome> anyway, next topic?
<GridCube> im trying to fetch the latest images but my internets wheren cooperative
<GridCube> knome, webcam applications
<knome> there's the screenlocker thing again, i'll skip that
<knome> GridCube, let's get to that once we've gone through the other items on the agenda
<GridCube> :) kay
<knome> #subtopic Look at how far astraljava got with xfce4-display dialog
<knome> astraljava, i assume postpone?
<astraljava> Yes, but I'll try to get it in before FF, so imagine within a week or so.
 * knome tries to imagine like john lennon
<astraljava> I'll announce on #-devel.
<astraljava> Err... here, it seems.
<knome> yes :)
 * astraljava always forgets these meetings aren't on #-meeting.
<knome> (oh how i love that fact! no need to get out of way)
<knome> anyway, let's move forward
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> #subtopic Development
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit, astraljava, bluesabre 
<knome> (this is for the reports too, so feel free repeat yourself
<knome> (again, #info please!)
<bluesabre> #info parole 0.3.0 released, working on fixes for 0.3.0.1 to be released soon
<micahg> #info blueman SRU in precise-proposed thanks to cyphermox, should make 12.04.1
<bluesabre> #info Working with kalikiana to release the updated/revamped catfish before FF
<astraljava> #info xfce4-display should get in by FF, so that updates can be done as bugfixes
<knome> #info trying to push bug #1001936 to 12.04.1 (right now)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001936
<knome> err, push the fix of course, not the bug.
<bluesabre> #info xubuntu-shortcuts-overlay probably won't make it for Q, while its mostly done, I've just not so much time with it.  And with the compositor up in the air, it might not be an option either
<knome> bluesabre, have you set those items to POSTPONED? :)
<bluesabre> currently, its marked as INPROGRESS because I had some hope for it
<knome> ok, fair enough
<bluesabre> Things might change, but hard to say
<knome> yeah, sure
<knome> #subtopic Quality Assurance
<knome> astraljava, do you have some quick news how .1 testing went?
<astraljava> No, not yet. It's still going, though.
<knome> oki
<knome> anything else?
<astraljava> Well, haven't gotten very good results with the calls for testings. I'll keep trying, though.
<knome> ok, let's try to get more publicity for testing again
<astraljava> Also, just recently the testcase admin panel was opened, but I haven't had a chance to look at it, yet.
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to try to get more publicity for testing ...agin
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to try to get more publicity for testing ...agin
<astraljava> Mean to, during this weekend.
<knome> yes, same here
<astraljava> (it's a busy one, daymn...)
<knome> #subtopic Marketing, Promotion and Artwork
<knome> pleia2, you're up!
<pleia2> #info so we ended up making a Marketing blueprint afterall
<pleia2> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-marketing
<pleia2> #info since our last meeting, I did a trial order of a black t-shirt from zazzle, but the printing was slightly off so I don't think we'll go with them: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7575566200/
<pleia2> (they offered a refund, but I don't want to rely upon them)
<bluesabre> Sad shirt
<pleia2> #info I also ordered some pins which turned out nice: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7640334336/
<pleia2> (I'll bring some to UDS :))
<knome> yes, i believe we should have the best providers for our marketing stuff, because it's not going to be out in millions
<knome> pleia2, is the white border intentional?
<knome> it looks surprisingly good, but just wondering
<pleia2> knome: no, and if you look at the image it's only around about half the circle :\
<pleia2> we might want to just print on white shirts tbh
<knome> hmmh. bigger bleed area next time then
<knome> what's the issue with printing on black?
<pleia2> the blue ended up a bit darker than I wanted on black too
<knome> if the manufacturer is good enough, they can solve it out
<pleia2> the whole shirt is just dark
<knome> it's too late, but maybe we should've ordered both white and black to see the differences
<pleia2> I plan on doing some more orders, so in the future :)
<knome> ok, great
<knome> anything else on this stuff?
<pleia2> that's pretty much it for marketing
<knome> before we move to docs...
<knome> #subtopic Documentation
<knome> #info the documentation rewrite has seriously begun!
<knome> #link http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10
<knome> #action knome and pleia2 to get more publicity to docs rewrite to get those who promised to help to start working
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and pleia2 to get more publicity to docs rewrite to get those who promised to help to start working
<bluesabre> I should probably help more with that
<knome> that's fine
<knome> #info we expect good progress on the next week or two to be able to ship the new documentation for Q
<knome> #subtopic General updates
<knome> something else?
<knome> done something worth mentioning?
<pleia2> yeah website
<knome> oh,
<knome> that was in the same block as marketing
<knome> but go ahead
<pleia2> so we need these merged: http://xubuntu.org/about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/About https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Website/Drafts
<pleia2> #info so we need these merged: http://xubuntu.org/about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/About https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Website/Drafts
<pleia2> I'm going to work on it, I'll nudge people in channel for review
<GridCube> o/
<pleia2> that'll knock out two blueprint items once it's done
<knome> i'll be glad to help with that
<knome> GridCube, yeah?
<pleia2> (well, 1 1/2 :))
<GridCube> the webcam application thingy
<knome> GridCube, yes, it's coming
<knome> we're still not at the end of our agenda :P
<GridCube> C:
<knome> follow at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> #info We're also reviewing: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryXubuntu most of it is junk :\
<knome> (we're now at team updates, general)
<GridCube> i though we were on others
<GridCube> :P
<knome> GridCube, the #topics and #subtopics give a good hint where we are progressing
<knome> GridCube, not always 100% accurate but...
<GridCube> (:
<pleia2> that's it for website stuffs
<knome> oki
<knome> i suppose that's it for the updates
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info UDS sponsorship requests should be sent by 17th of Aug; that's in two days! if you want to attend but need sponsoring, please leave your application now
<knome> #topic New an emerging items
<knome> #subtopic Strategy Document review
<knome> so!
<knome> #link http://strategydoc.knome.fi/
<knome> is there anything in the *contents* that people will want to have vote before approving and releasing to public?
<pleia2> I think I nitpicked it to death enough :)
<knome> i have a few grammar fix mails and things like that to go through at least before publishing, but are we satisfied with the content?
<knome> or, is there something we should remove completely, or add to the document?
<bluesabre> Somehow, I've never seen this.  I'll review it today
<astraljava> I haven't looked at it in ages, but I recall enough from our last discussion. If it hasn't changed fundamentally since that, I'm fine with it. :)
<knome> ok
<knome> #info One more week for reviewing; after that, the SD will be published as is if no arguments against are raised in the ML or in the meeting next week
<knome> #action knome will send one more call to review the new, proposed SD
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will send one more call to review the new, proposed SD
<bluesabre> the Introduction looks nicely improved :)
<knome> anybody want to raise issues now? :P
<knome> ok, good :P
<knome> #subtopic Webcam application in Q
<knome> GridCube, you're up!
<GridCube> :P cheese its the only webcam application thats worth mentioning, all others that i've found lack many features (not that cheese has too many) or are qt dependable, if there are other applications out there i havent find them, also its supposed that pidgin can do webcam chats, but i havent been able to figure out how to do that
<knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/WebcamApplication
<knome> ok, so do we need more information, or shall we jump to voting if we want a webcam app by default?
<micahg> we have no space on the ISOs
<GridCube> so i think we should add cheese to the defaults
<GridCube> oh
<knome> i think this is quite straightforward; there is only one viable choice anyway
<knome> micahg, how much are we oversized, or are we?
<GridCube> well nvm then its not that important, it would just be nice
<knome> what's the thing that takes a shot of you when you install xubuntu?
<knome> that uses webcam
<micahg> on the live images 27/45MB i386/amd64
<knome> micahg, ugh. what's the hopes of getting under? :P
<astraljava> micahg: Any chance we could utilize xz compression on more packages?
<micahg> without dropping anything?  pretty slim
<knome> ouch and ouch
<micahg> astraljava: that won't help the live images where most of the packages are in squashfs
<astraljava> Right, silly me.
<knome> should we vote whether to have a webcam app by default IF we'd have space? :P
<GridCube> sure
<GridCube> again its not vital, just would be nice
<knome> micahg, isn't there really anything to do? it's still that python2 and gimp dragging us over?
<micahg> and I'm not sure we can go with cheese unless we have a lot of space as it'll pull in clutter and a whole bunch of GNOME with it
<knome> ah :|
<knome> that too
<GridCube> micahg, it does?
<micahg> yeah, after 3.0 it needs clutter which is why Ubuntu stuck with 3.0 for precise
<GridCube> i think that with --no-install-recommends its pretty small
<GridCube> oh
<knome> micahg, when would you have time to look at this oversized-issue in the near future?
<micahg> oh, maybe not, but it was in universe, so they didn't care
<knome> micahg, i mean, at the issue itself, and also discuss about our strategy to cope with it
<micahg> I think I can drop webkit1.0 (needs a little porting in gimp), that'll give us ~7MB, not so sure about the rest
<knome> #info ATM we don't have size for a webcam app, postponed until at least theoretically possible
<micahg> would be much easier if we had a GTK3 DE :)
<GridCube> knome, i know ochosi send a patch to gmb to fix it from being on random by default, but thats pretty much where all stoped with it
<knome> yeah, but not going to happen very soon
<bluesabre> If we are doing xss with a blank screen, do we get some space back by not shipping any screensavers?
<micahg> we can see about porting stuff to python3, that would be another ~10MB
<knome> or is xss-data a *depend* ?
<knome> #subtopic ISO size issues
<GridCube> kk
<knome> #info dropping webkit1.0 (port some in gimp) gives about 7MB
 * GridCube idea, drop gimp
<knome> #info port stuff to python3, another ~10MB
<knome> #info drop xscreensaver screensavers?
<GridCube> if we use black screen by default, yeah
<GridCube> or leave the one that displays pictures
<knome> GridCube, that's been raised before, but that's the last resort
<knome> that doesn't work as expected though
<knome> and i don't think we can cherry-pick, they're probably in one big package
<knome> #info drop xscreensavers, probably <1MB
<knome> #info correction: drop xscreensavers, probably ~4MB
<knome> that would be 20ish
<bluesabre> sudo apt-get remove xscreensaver-gl
<bluesabre> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<bluesabre>   xscreensaver-gl
<bluesabre> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<bluesabre> After this operation, 1,127 kB disk space will be freed.
<GridCube> !info xscreensaver-data
<ubottu> xscreensaver-data (source: xscreensaver): data files to be shared among screensaver frontends. In component main, is optional. Version 5.15-2ubuntu1 (precise), package size 126 kB, installed size 407 kB
<knome> -gl-extra?
<knome> -data
<knome> -data-extra ?
<GridCube> is optional it says
<micahg> well, I still have to see about what increased all the ISOs 40MB between precise and quantal (probably core stuff we can't drop)
<knome> yes, but we might be pulling that too
<knome> micahg, so, you have any idea when we could sit down with this?
<pleia2> I don't have -data-extra installed so at least that I think is no-default
<knome> k
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<GridCube> (gmb?)
<micahg> knome: no, I don't have much time for the next week and a half
<knome> micahg, gah :(
<knome> micahg, i'll try to get a hold of mr_pouit then
<knome> GridCube, what about that?
<knome> GridCube, are we still keeping with the blueprint or not?
<micahg> knome: I can pastebin the diff though if you'd like to pour over it
<knome> micahg, i can, if you think that might help
<pleia2> beta1 on sept 6th, maybe meeting in 2 weeks?
<GridCube> knome, as we agreed i would not work on it anymore because im not objective enough, but no one else kept the work
<GridCube> i still think in at least needs some changes in playback modes
<micahg> knome: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1149097/ , that was from the 2012-08-11 daily against precise final I believe
<micahg> alternate that is
<knome> i think it's something you should really go through with ochosi, because he understands gmb best and is able to make changes too
<knome> #info Next Xubuntu community meeting is on 22th of August at 15UTC on #xubuntu-evel
<GridCube> ochosi fixed the default random setting, thats good, but we at least need a few more changes if we are going to keep using it
<knome> devel too.
<GridCube> :)
<knome> GridCube, if we're not changing either, we're going to use it even without those changes
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 15 16:39:18 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-08-15-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-08-15-15.01.html
<knome> thanks everybody!
<pleia2> phew :)
<knome> yeah
<GridCube> knome, :) ofcourse
<knome> that was a long one, but it was a long time since the last meeting
<pleia2> so meeting one week from now
<pleia2> updating calendar
<knome> yes
<pleia2> there w ego
<knome> pleia2, you also want to "practice" setting up the minutes?
<knome> i need to make a call
<knome> and i'm exhausted :P
<pleia2> I can but it'll have to be later (busy at work today)
<knome> ok
<knome> let's see who gets there first
<knome> probably me
<bluesabre> knome: re: Usability is one of the most important parts of an operating system,  which is used on a daily basis. This is why Xubuntu should be easy to  use and have an elegant appearance that doesn't get in the way. The  appearance should be an all-round experience, covering all user  interfaces from booting to shutting down.
<bluesabre> I feel like "elegant" is out of place here.
<bluesabre> I'm learning more towards "This is why Xubuntu should be easy to use and have an intuitive interface that doesn't get in the way."
<bluesabre> But, I might be alone there
<SkippersBoss> Blue And why would that be ?. I like xubuntu firstly because my HP mini can easily cope and second it is still nice to use
<SkippersBoss> i ve tried lubuntu a couple of times but in my setup it handling of the screens makes me come back to XU every time
<bluesabre> I was just saying replace "elegant appearance" with "intuitive interface".
<bluesabre> I just can't seem to make Lubuntu (or LXDE in general) look nice
<SkippersBoss> I do not think looking nice in one of the goals of the lubuntu project
<SkippersBoss> but we are talking about XU here
<SkippersBoss> :-)
<bluesabre> Other than that, the Strategy Doc looks great!
<knome> #1019621
<knome> bug #1019621
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019621 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Precise abiword version needs to be reverted to stable release prior to 12.04.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019621
<knome> :P
<micahg> nothing doing for 12.04.1 (save for maybe a backport)
 * micahg -> lunch
<knome> meeting minutes are up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<astraljava> Yeah, that's a tricky one. And while I do see the point in the opinions for it, I whole-heartedly support the ubuntu devs' point-of-view as well.
<astraljava> Backporting, IMHO, is the way to go with that.
<knome> i'm not generally too interested about abiword and/or gnumeric.
<knome> this is one of the reasons things like this slip through me easier
<astraljava> Same for me, I very rarely even open either of them.
<knome> well, i don't open them
<knome> if i need office suite on a workstation, i purge them and install libreoffice
<knome> if i don't, i purge them and install gedit
<astraljava> Very rarely == once or twice during my whole *buntu [*] history.
<knome> not even while testing? *trollface*
<astraljava> Me? TESTING?!
<knome> :]
<knome> great. only 30mins until food.
 * knome prepared lasagna
 * elfy waits 30 secs for food 
<knome> :d
<knome> but it ain't home-made lasagna!
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> the pork has been cooking really slowly for 7 hours 
<knome> heh, that's good too
 * astraljava just made sandwiches.
<astraljava> elfy: You do realize it's not DCC sendable?
<astraljava> Was it DCC? I forget.
<elfy> :)
<knome> astraljava, :)
<astraljava> No, but it'd be delivered home, it it were?
<astraljava> Well yeah, both of those are considerably better than rye bread with liver sausage.
<astraljava> Oh well, you do what you must, with 3 euros per day.
<knome> astraljava, too bad that ain't any more, since you could just take the bus here and eat well :P
<elfy> cheap pork ~5euro's   - cooked long - enough for me and daughter for 2 days - not got much money here either astraljava :)
<knome> yeah but astraljava's a pig himself, he can't eat pork
 * knome hides
<elfy> :p
<astraljava> Yeah. I don't support cannibalism.
<Sysi> astraljava: if you get tired of macaroni and pea soup, meat pasties are relatively cheap
<knome> some relatively good beers only cost about 3 euros too
<knome> :P
<knome> (as if that was any change to your regular diet...)
<astraljava> Oh? So you think it's sand and a beer for me, daily?
<astraljava> Pigs eat sand, don't they?
<elfy> I guess so astraljava 
<astraljava> It might have been hen, but I'm pretty sure a very common domestic animal does.
<astraljava> Of course not as source of nutrition, but something to do with digestion, I believe.
<astraljava> It's nearly three decades since those biology lessons in elementary school, cut me some slack, dangit.
<astraljava> And before you ask, YES THIS IS ELEMENTARY TO XUBUNTU DEVELOPMENT!
<Unit193> knome_: I did some playing with the desktop files a bit back.
<elfy> astraljava: gizzards and birds - stones 
<astraljava> Right, that.
<elfy> I've seen pigs eat coal 
<astraljava> Funny. I don't recall that.
<astraljava> Unless of course salmiakki counts as such.
<knome> Unit193, yeah. you willing to take that item ?:)
<Unit193> Unless there's some hidden hard part, I see no reason not too, just have to revert my changes I've already done. :P
<knome> i don't think there is
<knome> micahg, if you're more familiar with the SRU stuff.. well, everything's done, in a way :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-16
<smartboyhw> HI!
<knome> smartboyhw, we usually just rather lurk around, so if you don't have an issue, don't break the silence >:)
<smartboyhw> ...
<smartboyhw> How are ya today, knome?
<knome> i suppose i'm fine; just woke up
<smartboyhw> Congrats
<pleia2> knome: thanks for taking care of meeting minutes
<knome> pleia2, no problemo
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: I know you just got parole 0.3.0 into Q, but I just released 0.3.0.1 into the wild (bugfixes and build fixes)
<bluesabre> mrpouit ^
<bluesabre> That underscore must be why my messages never get to you :D
<mr_pouit> no :P
<mr_pouit> I'm subscribed to xfce4-commits@ anyway :)
<bluesabre> Awesome.
<mr_pouit> knome: xfwm4 sru approved (it's in -proposed, should be built and available soon, and then it'll need testers), 
<ochosi> ahoi everyone!
<bluesabre> omg
<ochosi> (soo much backlog)
<bluesabre> he's alive!
<ochosi> hey sean! :)
<ochosi> yeah, i just returned from malage with a 36hrs train-journey (no stops in between), so i'm a bit brain-dead still
<ochosi> s/malage/malaga/
<ochosi> (there you go ^)
<ochosi> what did i miss? :p
<bluesabre> parole 0.3.0.1 is out now
 * pleia2 hugs ochosi 
<ochosi> bluesabre: whoa, i missed a subversion!
<ochosi> pleia2: hey!
 * ochosi hugs back
<ochosi> pleia2: what did i miss xubuntu-wise?
<pleia2> we managed to get alpha3 out :)
<ochosi> oh nice
<pleia2> actually, our meeting yesterday covers almost the whole time you were gone
<pleia2> we weren't exceptional about having meetings ;)
<ochosi> ok, gotta read the minutes then
<ochosi> are they up yet?
<pleia2> yeah sec
<pleia2> wiki is being teh slow
<ochosi> as usual
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2012-08-15
<ochosi> ty!
<ochosi> pleia2: hm, so no news on the screenlock?
<ochosi> oh, nice pins!
<pleia2> ochosi: I think we might go with blank, but I think my brain checked out at some point during that discussion
<ochosi> heh, ok
<ochosi> i'll ask knome or mr_pouit when they're around
<ochosi> i'll be on and off till monday, then i'll really be back. see y'all!
<pleia2> later ochosi :)
<knome> ochosi, ?
<knome> ochosi, oh yeah, blank
<stgraber> heya, we need someone to verify bug 1001936 ASAP if you want it to make it for 12.04.1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001936
<stgraber> poke me in #ubuntu-release when done, thanks
<knome> somebody else able to do a test today?
<pleia2> what test needs to be done?
<knome> bug #1001936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001936
<knome> should be tested on today's image
<knome> i can do the test too, but more testers won't hurt
<elfy> today's daily ?
<knome> especially as this bug doesn't appear *every time*
<knome> yes, and to be exact, precise-daily 
<elfy> oh right 
<elfy> dekstop 64bit or 32bit 
<Sysi> I can test too
<knome> 22:22  stgraber: knome: there's no build with proposed enabled, get a clean  12.04.1 system, enable -proposed and upgrade xfwm4, then test
<knome> ^ see that
<knome> i suppose we can do both 64 and 32, but arch shouldn't matter for this sepcific bug
<Unit193> xfwm just got pulled in with my updates today, funny.
<elfy> k - well I guess so long as we do both 
<knome> Unit193, i suppose it should if you have -proposed enabled
<elfy> knome: or can I just boot my 12.04 and update it to see if it's fixed
<knome> elfy, that should work too, i think
<elfy> ok - that's easier then 
<elfy> that's 32bit I am sure 
<elfy> brb
<hobgoblin> what am I expecting to be upgrading here ? xfwm4
<hobgoblin> been a long day and I forgot what I read a few minutes ago
<Unit193> Yep.
<Unit193> Need -proposed.
<hobgoblin> got that
<hobgoblin> chhers
<knome> http://www.typewith.me/p/xfwm-proposed
<knome> send your results there
<knome> hobgoblin, see that pad too
<hobgoblin> yep
<hobgoblin> been so long since I was in here I forgot the app that ALWAYS did it to me now 
<knome> gedit does that.
<knome> any gtk3 app will suffer from that
<hobgoblin> wasn't gedit - and I never know a gtk3 from gtk2 app I'm afraid - what are default gtk3 
<hobgoblin> ochosi will slap me - he has to tell me each time 
<knome> evince is one too
<knome> bug #1008682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #1008682 GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001936
<knome> that's the dup, but that's better description
<hobgoblin> well I've had all the apps I generally use open and have been moving them about with no issue for 5 minutes now 
<hobgoblin> and as I type that I get a fail 
<knome> huh?
<knome> really? :(
<hobgoblin> yep - evince went bye bye just as typed that 
<knome> gosh
<knome> mr_pouit, ...
<hobgoblin> I'll reboot now it's all done and have another go if you want 
<knome> report that to the pad and yeah, reboot would be nice
<hobgoblin> k - well I'll reboot and double check knome 
<knome> thanks
<knome> at least i don't see any regressions.
<knome> so, this fix doesn't hurt anyone if it can at least narrow down the cases
<knome> could somebody else run this test with a new installation too?
<knome> i'm currently installing precise in vbox
<knome> (64, if somebody could go 32)
<hobgoblin> seems ok now knome after reboot 
<knome> yeah.
<knome> can you report that? :)
<hobgoblin> yep - I'll go back to quantal now 
<Unit193> I don't think I'm doing something right, I should be hitting it.
<knome> :
<knome> 1) open a Gtk3 app, such as Evince or GnomeTerminal
<knome> 2) click the top/left corner of the resize handle a few times
<knome> that's the better description/how-to-reproduce
<knome> and are you sure you don't have -proposed enabled in precise?
<knome> because it is in -proposed now.
<Unit193> I have it enabled, update came this morning, but I haven't restarted xfwm.
<knome> heh.
<elfy> knome: so do you want a 64bit install checked as well? 
<knome> i'm doing that.
<knome> on laptop, desktop and vbox :D
<elfy> 32 bit then lol 
<knome> elfy, could you update the pad with your current results first? :P
<knome> http://www.typewith.me/p/xfwm-proposed
<elfy> yep
<knome> thanks
<knome> or am i disconnected from the pad or sth :P
<Unit193> Oooh, I think I slightly hit it.
<elfy> I think I ipdated the pad ... 
<knome> slightly?
<knome> :P
<knome> elfy, ta
<elfy> right - got the 32bit live on the way now 
<knome> nice!
<elfy> zsync is great :p
<knome> the xubuntu community is great
<knome> we rock.
<knome> anybody else in the progress of testing?
<knome> (should i wait for others than elfy's live)
<elfy> knome: is livecd test enough - or you want me to install it - just about to reboot 
<knome> livecd works too, it's good to have variety
<elfy> okey doke
<knome> we have about 30mins, so probably don't need to install
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> brb
<elfy> knome: done - checked on livecd while it installed - booted new install as well - put both on the pad
<knome> thanks
<knome> bug #1001936 is now verification-done and everything should be fine :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001936
<elfy> cool - glad to be of assistance 
<knome> it's appreciated
<elfy> :)
<mr_pouit> someone changed the bug tag to verification-done, is it someone from here?
<elfy> not me 
<mr_pouit> oh, knome posted on the bug report anyway, so it's fine
<elfy> cool
<knome> mr_pouit, of course it's fine!
<elfy> right - night all - had enough of Thursday 
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2012/08/17/working-on-the-xubuntu-documentation-rewrite/
<knome> hmm, #x was a mistake, but oh well
<knome> knome, DON'T CROSSPOST OR I'LL REMOVE YOU
<knome> knome, now you stop shouting
<pleia2> :)
<knome> meh.
<knome> we need to tell the voyager maintainer to change the slideshow, because they seem to have problems while installing, but they're pointing people to #xubuntu
<knome> we need to point out that's *not* okay
<Unit193> #VoyagerOS: 3  No topic set.
<knome> sad channel
<knome> chanserv, apparently another bot and one user
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-17
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy
 * ochosi slaps elfy
<ochosi> ;)
<astraljava> ochosi: I take it your vacation wasn't very relaxing?
<ochosi> astraljava: why do you take that?
<ochosi> ("take that")
<astraljava> Well just that you slap people who greet you made me wonder...
<ochosi> well, elfy (or hobgoblin ftm) mentioned i would slap him because he never remembers which apps are gtk2/3, soo...
<elfy> :p
<elfy> silly goblin
 * ochosi was just trying to live up to the expectation
<ochosi> hehe
<astraljava> Ahh... sorry, I wasn't aware of such prior agreements. Carry on your previously scheduled programme, then.
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> will do
<ochosi> astraljava: so, how was your not-holiday in the meantime?
<astraljava> The usual (ie. lousy).
<ochosi> righty :Ã)
<ochosi> good i was away, otherwise i'd have pestered you every day about the display-dialog ;)
<ochosi> ok, bb tomorrow
<astraljava> Yes. Well, I have reserved this coming weekend for [*]buntu[ *] issues, so I should get it done by FF.
<knome> ohai ochosi !
<knome> ochosi, good to see you back
<knome> as if something was missing while you were away
<astraljava> Yeah, as if.
<knome> ;]
<knome> hey astraljava.
<astraljava> o/
<knome> merh
<knome> :)
 * smartboyhw waves at astraljava and knome
<Sysi> you may want to check backlog of few days for ormie
<elfy> astraljava: http://pastebin.com/4zgC7ktd
<knome> smartboyhw, you around?
<knome> gah, reconnecting, this server lags for me
<knome> let's hope this is better
<smartboyhw> knome: LOL
<knome> smartboyhw, do you have a minute?
<smartboyhw> On what?
<knome> (or two, or five...)
<knome> well, generally
<smartboyhw> I have
<ochosi> ahoi
<elfy> cam someoen look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1032340 comment #18 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1032340 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in thunar_g_vfs_is_uri_scheme_supported()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<elfy> to be honest it sums up LP - I'd love to be able to report this - but I have NO idea what to report it for 
<elfy> I understand that this is a general LP issue - but I am only interested in Xubuntu atm
<elfy> hope that makes some sense 
<elfy> but is generic agaisnt pleia2's comments on her blog - where DO we report stuff
<elfy> on a positive note - doen a bunch of work on some of the doc pages - just need to put it on pleia2's pages 
<pleia2> blog? pages? do we mean the QA post from today?
<pleia2> someone wanted me to do a presentation once on how to know what to file bugs against, I said "I'd like to see that presentation!"
<pleia2> my presentation would be one slide, and it would say "ask people on IRC"
<micahg> pleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
<pleia2> micahg: yeah, I know of that page (and printed it for our last global jam where we did testing :))
<pleia2> it's ok when you have a bug in an application, but most of the bugs I find tend to be more *environment* type bugs, that could be xfwm, shimmer-themes or who knows what else
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-18
<GridCube> as a person on #xubuntu just said, its a shame we dont have the hashtags for the torrents on our main site
<astraljava> hashes, not hashtags. That's a Twitter thingie. :)
<GridCube> :P true 
<astraljava> Is our site pointing to cdimage.u.c or does it have the actual images?
<GridCube> poins to cd.u.c
<GridCube> actually torrent.u.c
<GridCube> and thats the site that its still down for me
<astraljava> Sorry, what I actually meant is that does it have the links to the actual images, or just a link to the URL I linked to on support channel?
<GridCube> to the actuall .torrent files
<astraljava> Nevermind, it works for me now.
<astraljava> pleia2: knome: Please add links to the hash files as well.
<GridCube> mmhm, i tried again just now and it works as well
<Unit193> A torrent will autocheck by itself.
<Sysi> but you can check from hash that you didn't get "russian" copy
<astraljava> In Soviet Russia, the torrent hashes you.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-19
<knome> astraljava, what's the situation with xubuntu .1 testing?
<knome> meh, not too good.
<knome> i suppose i could do some tests later today
<knome> if i could get my old laptop to work (it worked the last time when booting from cd, but not HD), i could do tests on hardware too
<knome> eeepc is a bit too painful to do tests on
<astraljava> Yeah, we could use more testers. I'll write another email today, to both Studio and Xubuntu lists.
<knome> we should go through the testcase stuff
<astraljava> Agreed.
<knome> you have time now?
<knome> urrr
<knome> my desktop is in no-response mode
<knome> not anymore. boot fied
<knome> fixed too
<knome> bah. the normal testcase format has invalid markup
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2012/08/19/xubuntu-is-not-a-refugee-camp/
<knome> pleia2, can you spot the comic sans? http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7763864422/in/photostream/
<knome> pleia2, seriously, i was just browsing quickly around, and i saw that immediately :(
<elfy> knome: I have done Restricted Drivers and Keeping software up to date - I'll not do anything else until I'm sure it's how you want them done/ to look.
<elfy> back later probably
<astraljava> Oh $deity I hate it when this other monitor isn't working. :(
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, I have time now.
<smartboyhw> Excuse me, is this one down? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily-live/20120817.3/precise-desktop-amd64.iso
<Sysi> seems so
<smartboyhw> Uh oh
<smartboyhw> Is any Xubuntu staff here to fix the iso link down problem?
<smartboyhw> W
<holstein> smartboyhw: whats the issue?
<smartboyhw> holstein: The iso is DOWN
<holstein> smartboyhw: that link is working fine for me
<holstein> smartboyhw: i would just keep checking back
<holstein> smartboyhw: i wouldnt expect any "xubuntu staff" to be able to "fix" that
<smartboyhw> OK, it works now, thanks holstein
<astraljava> Still some leftover tails from the data center migration, I'm sure. The zsync link isn't working for me.
<smartboyhw> astraljava: Finished a Xubuntu 12.04.1 Desktop amd64 test.
<knome> yeah, it's the community stuff migration weekend
<knome> astraljava, let's see if our schedules meet later. i need to go now
<astraljava> knome: I have a surprising engagement as well, so let's ping later into the night. Might have to stay up late tonight.
<smonff> WasteLand
<smonff> Sorry
<pleia2> knome: probably want to send a link (or the full text) of your blog post to the list too?
<ochosi> anyone home?
<pleia2> g'day ochosi 
<ochosi> heyo pleia2 :)
<ochosi> checking emails after three weeks of being practically offline is not much fun...
<pleia2> that does sound pretty awful
<ochosi> it was only ~400 emails
<ochosi> mkay, i'm almost done with them now
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks for the greybird-bugreport btw
<pleia2> sure
<ochosi> quick question about that:
<pleia2> hopefully that's the last sneaky mismatch
<ochosi> that isn't a toggle-button, is it?
<pleia2> no
<ochosi> so why does it stay "pressed"?
<pleia2> it doesn't stay pressed
<mr_pouit> that's when you press it
<pleia2> I was just pressing it while creating the screenshot
<mr_pouit> the color changes
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> in 12.04 the same dialog works fine
<ochosi> hey mr_pouit !
<mr_pouit> hello
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08192012-110127pm.php
<ochosi> this is how it's supposed to look ^
<ochosi> (minus the overlay-scrollbars that i installed for testing)
<mr_pouit> knome: did you receive a mail from someone from lubuntu and didn't reply? :P (related to lightdm gtk greeter)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I put you in the loop for the lightm-gtk-greeter discussion ;3
<Unit193> Mind if I ask who was asking?
<mr_pouit> Unit193: Alexander from Lubuntu Artwork
<Unit193> Ah, him.  Ta.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-12
<Noskcaj> micahg, the config file is finally starting to work on gthumb. there is hope yet!
<elfy> Unit193: I wonder if we should change vanir.unit193.tk/mir/ now that you can install the necessary to a daily
<skellat> Gridcube in the media: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130812
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-13
<skellat> Okay, LP 1211575 looks notable yet odd
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1211575 in orage (Ubuntu) "xfce4-orageclock-plugin crashed with SIGSEGV in main()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211575
<Noskcaj> Are there any xubuntu packages that are still on the "merge" list?
<Noskcaj> And does anyone have a moment to try and install gthumb from source?
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5980652/
<knome> a friend suggested that we could have some kind of mechanism on the ISO that sends some stats
<knome> i don't want an automatic mechanism, but we could add a slide on the installer slideshow saying "if you want to register this installation of xubuntu, click here"
<lderan> so we can get the machine specifications? aye thats a good idea
<knome> well no,
<knome> installation count
<knome> the URL could register one user automatically
<knome> but also have buttons to tell "this machine actually has more than one user"
<knome> so a "3" button, which would update the user count by two, but keep the machine count intact
<knome> and sure, we could also gather some hardware information
<knome> but everything should be an informed decision
<lderan> agreed
<knome> i think "register here" is good enough to tell the user "we're going to increase a counter by on"
<knome> *one
<knome> but i'm not sure how canonical would react to this idea
<knome> they haven't been willing to share some data anyway...
<knome> another idea is to create a package
<knome> that sends us information
<knome> about hardware, and real user count
<knome> but again, i've no idea how canonical would react to that either
<lderan> that would be good information to have
<knome> i would imagine they aren't *too* keen on that
<knome> but that'd be continuous submitting, so the server side should be a bit more complex
<knome> pleia2, ping. you shall read the conversation above and comment.
<elfy> knome: not sure if you caught my conversation with balloons yesterday, to cut a long story short a bunch of our xfce settings testcases have been marked as archived - he's no idea what's going on and has passed it on to stgraber
<knome> i marked some archived (or disabled or whatever that is) - but that's to make them not show up in the wrong testsuite
<elfy> yea - saw those - I've done similar -this is different
<knome> oki
<knome> :)
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases/1586/results
<elfy> for instance
<knome> hmpf, right
<elfy> yea - that was my reaction to when I saw it
<elfy> can't find anything to show why - nor even how to do it if we wanted to 
 * knome looks at it
<elfy> balloons just thought it was 'wild' lol
<knome> hmm hmm
<knome> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases/1586/results :P
<elfy> how did you do that?
<knome> i enabled it in the "core" testsuite
<knome> (where we don't want it enabled)
<knome> but that fixed it
<elfy> oh
<elfy> mmm
<knome> did you file a bug about it, or just poked stgraber?
<elfy> I poked balloons who poked stgraber
<knome> ok
<elfy> so I guess the question is how to delete things from testsuites 
<knome> that needs admin powers
<knome> but there is a bug too, this shouldn't happen
<elfy> yea
<elfy> it's showing disabled/archived again now
<knome> yup, as i disabled it in the other testsuite
<knome> i tested something
<elfy> ok
<knome> (that didn't work)
<elfy> so if I see balloons before you - there is a bug, but if necessary to get around this we want stuff actually deleted from the xfce core testsuite so the ones we want are not archived
<knome> sure
<knome> i'm filing a bug *right now*
<elfy> k
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I filed one on packages at the weekend
<knome> about the same thing?
<elfy> no way to report a bug against a testcase in packages - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1210728
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1210728 in Ubuntu QA Website "Report a testcase bug missing from package tracker" [Undecided,New]
<knome> aha
<knome> bug 1211746
<ubottu> bug 1211746 in Ubuntu QA Website "Disabling a testcase in one testsuite marks it as archived on other testsuites as well" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211746
<elfy> I confirmed it lol
<knome> me too...
<knome> :P
<elfy> I me too'd it as well 
<knome> good good
<knome> hope that gets fixed soon, or i get admin powers on the trackers :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'd know which I'd rather ... 
<elfy> knome: stgraber hasn't taken the bait ... 
<elfy> hi skellat 
<knome> elfy, i'm thinking balloons is trying to lean towards that at least ;)
<knome> err, s/trying/starting/
<elfy> good
<lderan> \o/
<pleia2> knome: instead of doing that, I'd prefer telling people to enable popcon and then just have us mine that data (which already exists!)
<pleia2> elizabeth@r2d2$:~$ grep xubuntu-desktop all-popcon-results.txt
<pleia2> Package: xubuntu-desktop                    0     0     0 116996
<pleia2> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<Unit193> pleia2: desktop may not be the best target, it's removed once you remove one of the default applications.  I'd think desktop-settins would be a better one, but could be just me http://paste.openstack.org/show/WJpBl90y905WHZ2INvDV
<pleia2> sure, it was an example :)
<knome> pleia2, right
<Unit193> elfy: We could, but it's already at http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/installing_prebuilt_on_pc.html (which they have updated.) so it'd either be a copy or link to that.
<elfy> wut?
<knome> xubuntulovely, huh?
 * elfy didn't do that - he did install xorg-server-xmir unity-system-compositor
<elfy> he did uninstall as well ... 
<knome> pleia2, soo... is popcon installed by default?
<knome> pleia2, or, enabled
<pleia2> knome: no
<knome> pleia2, so that's a stupid number as well
<pleia2> probably more accurate than our own opt-in thing
<pleia2> we can still tell people to opt-in, the procedure would just be enabling popcon
<knome> probably... but then again, it counts computers, not users
<pleia2> that's what it's for
<pleia2> that's ok
<knome> so, 138k xubuntu computers?
<pleia2> with popcon enabled, yeah
<knome> huhu
<knome> so my 15k estimate was very tentative
<pleia2> that's already a lot more than we'd get with any of our own opt-in stats
<knome> how are the stats compiled?
<knome> is it any xubuntu version?
<knome> and/or is there stats for specific versions
<pleia2> I just downloaded the raw stats from text file http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<knome> i'm looking at that too, but i thought you might know more
<pleia2> just read the README and FAQ :)
<Unit193> 03:54:05 #xubuntu-devel: < elfy> Unit193: I wonder if we should change vanir.unit193.tk/mir/ now that you can install the necessary to a daily
<pleia2> I don't know much beyond that
<knome> pleia2, i never read the FAQ!
<pleia2> :P
<elfy> Unit193: I realised eventually .... * elfy didn't do that - he did install xorg-server-xmir unity-system-compositor
<Unit193> Alrighty.
<knome> pleia2, the README/FAQ do not talk about debian/ubuntu versions
<pleia2> knome: sorry, I meant to communicate "I don't know, I just read the faq and readme"
<knome> pleia2, yes, i figured that out. i wanted to communicate "unfortunately they don't tell me anything about that so i suppose the answer to my questions is that we can't track different operating system versions :("
<pleia2> honestly I don't think it matters, stats always suck, but popcon was specifically designed for this
<elfy> and argued about in exactly the same way :)
<elfy> "In short, unless popcon is enabled by default, the statistics from it will continue to be invalid and of very little use, or worse, substantially misleading."
<elfy> but it's better than a finger in the air I suppose 
<knome> sure... but it *does* give us some kind of "minimum" value, which is better than nothing
<pleia2> and enabled by default is a privacy issue (though with shopping lens these days, the argument is much less valid :))
<knome> pleia2, fffuuu, it's not
<knome> pleia2, it's perfectly valid nonetheless
<elfy> I agree 
<knome> pleia2, i'm just thinking what the correct place would be to tell people to enable popcon
<elfy> with bith
<pleia2> sure, for you, but not in the actual discussion
<pleia2> knome: your idea for a slideshow item was fine
<pleia2> "want to be counted? click here to learn how to enable popcon" or whatever
<knome> pleia2, yeah, but i don't want to tell to "install the package popularity-contest"
<pleia2> then on the page we explain what it is, etc
<Unit193> Task: standard, kubuntu-active, kubuntu-active  already installed.
<knome> bleh.
<knome> maybe the docs.
<knome> and then advertise those more on the slideshow
<knome> because they are kind of awesome anyway
<pleia2> +1
<knome> pleia2, have some time this week? could go throgh the installed slideshow
<pleia2> knome: yeah, should
<knome> we still have a lot of time to do that, but could do that anyway, especially if we're going to add a slide
<ochosi> btw, if you're doing the new slideshow, be sure to use the latest version of the icon-theme
<ochosi> link: https://launchpad.net/~landronimirc/+archive/elementary-xfce
<knome> ochosi, not "new" exactly, but good pointer
<knome> ochosi, if you have extra time, file a bug report telling which icons need updating :)
<ochosi> i was mostly referring to screenshots
<ochosi> not many app-icons changed
<ochosi> mostly ff, because its logo was updated with v23 (or 22?)
<knome> sure, we need to retake the screenshots
<ochosi> yup, also please use the latest theme version ;)
<ochosi>  /just_saying
<knome> :P
<knome> is it uploaded in saucy?
<knome> if not, can you file a bug telling what kind of weirdo setup we need to do before taking screenshots ;)
<ochosi> well i've been waiting for an upload of our artwork packages for a while now...
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ^
<knome> pleia2, you around later today, like 21UTC or so?
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<Unit193> Sooo, are we pretty much done tracking the changes in Mir?
<knome> pleia2, oki, ping me around that time, or i'll ping you, and let's go through the slideshow
<pleia2> k
<elfy> Unit193: I'll be checking my install out over the next week to see if the issues I've seen are any better
<Unit193> Since 0.0.9 came out over the weekend, I just rebuilt all for that but not sure it matters (not uploaded yet.)
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> Unit193: i read somewhere that they want X/Mir to support multi-monitor-setups _before_ uploading it to main, but now it seems to be in main already..?
<Unit193> Parts of it are still in universe.
<ochosi> aha, i guess i misinterpreted the phoronix headline then
<Unit193> unity-system-compositor is all that's left in universe, though.
<Unit193> Meeting added to the calendar.
<knome> Unit193, ta
<knome> pleia2, i'm ready if you are
<pleia2> it 20!
<pleia2> but ok
<knome> i know!
<knome> i can wait as well
<pleia2> nah now is fine
<knome> oki
<knome> do you have the branch branched?
<pleia2> what should I be looking at?
<knome> bzr pull lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> then in the dir,
<knome> ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<pleia2> s/pull/branch
<knome> meh, yeah
<knome> i'm typoing
<knome> i have symlink lp->bzr for that exact reason too...
<pleia2> it yelled at me because I tried to use clone :) I haz git on teh brain
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> too many different vcs
<Unit193> I use clone most times. :D
<pleia2> ooh pretty
<pleia2> ok, I'm looking
<knome> hehe, good
<knome> so shall we start with the first slide
<pleia2> [slide 1]
<knome> i was thinking we could change the first <p>
<pleia2> looks fine to me
<pleia2> alright
<knome> i mean, it says latest...
<knome> but it's not always latest
<knome> we might want to slightly change the wording
<knome> "Congratulations! You have chosen to install Xubuntu [versionnumber]."
<knome> or something
<knome> apart from that, i'm fine with that slide
<pleia2> yes, that's nice
<Unit193> ( http://www.dylanmccall.com/ubiquity-slideshow-preview/ )
<knome> well bleh
<knome> i rather test is as it shows
<knome> so,
<knome> [Your web experience]
<knome> need to fix the firefox icon
<pleia2> Unit193: that's pretty cool :)
<pleia2> what's wrong with the firefox icon?
<knome> they recently changed
<knome> http://blog.mozilla.org/creative/2013/06/27/a-new-firefox-logo-for-a-new-firefox-era/
<pleia2> I don't like "web" - email isn't "web" :)
<pleia2> oh
<pleia2> so probably s/web/internet
<knome> well it's basically the same, but...
<pleia2> web is html pages
<knome> if we s/web/internet/, then "They offer you the internet the way..." sounds weird
<pleia2> not to me
<knome> for me, "offering internet" is something that ISP's do
<knome> what if we just did "...from web applications: high performance..." ?
<pleia2> email is not web
<knome> err, sorry
<knome> from internet apps:
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> the point was to merge the two <p>'s
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> sounds good
<knome> ok, good
<knome> let me do those changes now so you'll be able to review them all when we're finished
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> any wording ideas for the #1 slide?
<pleia2> just the Congratulations!
<pleia2> wait
<knome> heh
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> should we rename the slide title and add "congrats" to first <p>?
<knome> could be "Welcome to Xubuntu"
<pleia2> yes
<knome> ok, done
<knome> [Instant messaging]
<knome> oh, oops
<knome> i need to update the internet slide shot
<knome> i'll try to do something version-agnostic this time
<knome> so IM
<knome> regarding the shot, it's fine
<knome> and generally, i think it's ok
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> "is shipping" -> "ships" ?
<pleia2> ships is more consistant with tense on other slides
<knome> ok, done
<knome> [Enjoy your media]
<knome> i'm fine with that slide as well, but i'll double check the icons
<pleia2> italicize gmusicbrowser in 2nd paragraph?
<knome> mmh, sure
<knome> done
<knome> [In the office]
<knome> to be consistent, italicize LO (or not, because it's not installed by default)?
<pleia2> yes
<pleia2> s/in the repositories/for installation
<pleia2> normal people don't know what a repository is :)
<knome> and remove the comma?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> done
<knome> i'll look at updating the screenshot
<knome> [The Xubutnu desktop]
<pleia2> I don't like italics on quick access
<pleia2> otherwise the text is fine
<knome> application-menu -> application(s) menu?
<knome> that must be something ochosi wrote, he over-uses hyphens
<pleia2> ah, I assumed it was some command name :)
<knome> nam
<knome> *nah
<knome> ..
<knome> i'll also look to update the screenshot there
<pleia2> applications menu
<knome> oki
<knome> [Know your desktop]
<knome> should we drop the mention about the docs here and create a new slide?
<pleia2> maybe add a slide
<pleia2> wait
<knome> i'm waiting
<pleia2> add to 2nd paragraph
<knome> or,
<knome> "To learn more about the Xubuntu desktop, along with instructions how to install more software, go to Help in the Application menu or see..."
<knome> or sth like that
<pleia2> yes
<knome> i don't think we need to over-advertise US
<knome> USC
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/PgAAkd5J4i
<pleia2> actually, we do need to tell people about USC
<knome> aha
<pleia2> since it's a linux thing, other OSes don't have such things (well, aside from phones)
<pleia2> that looks good
<knome> and drop the xfce mention?
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> that kind of sucks
<pleia2> we mention it in the first slide
<knome> right
<knome> [Thank you!]
<pleia2> -section 
<pleia2> stray - there
<knome> this is a trivial thing, but we currently do xubuntu??? with the nicks
<knome> we could go xubuntu?? or even xubuntu?
<pleia2> nah
<knome> i've never seen more than three webirc users at the same time
<pleia2> it happens sometimes
<knome> my argument is that it is easier to make a difference between xubuntu4 and xubuntu6 than xubuntu412 and xubuntu 461
<pleia2> 3 is nice because it makes them more unique (particularly if we ever decide to do channel stats or something)
<knome> aha
<knome> fine then!
 * knome sobs
<pleia2> :P
<knome> bzr branch lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1310
<knome> first desktop slide says "applications menu", second "Applications menu"
<knome> ochosi, FYI, our default is droid 10
<pleia2> is good
<knome> i would fix the casing
<knome> either A A or a a
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> not A a
<pleia2> A
<knome> ok ,done
<knome> now i will work on the icons and shtos
<knome> *shots
<knome> i'll ping you again later when i've got all of that sorted out
<pleia2> k
<Unit193> knome: Since your meetup is over, and elfy confirmed the one that was supposed to be broken works, want another set published?
<knome> set of what?
<knome> for a reason or another, i'm quite lost
<Unit193> Cookies.
<knome> yes, please send me another batch of cookies
<elfy> Unit193: it failed to reboot though
<Unit193> elfy: Oh?  Any interesting text output or see that in the daily?
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> nothing at all - just hung
<elfy> the daily is fine
<elfy> so in summary - the daily +installing the bits works - mostly - you're works ok - but didn't reboot
<elfy> ok - update the pad with what I've got on these 2 machines - I'll check again before thursday's meeting - but I won't be there for it 
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/44074/ ready to press button.  I'd bet I won't be there for it either.
<elfy> not sure I'm going to make next week's either - pretty sure I've got to cover hours at work
<Unit193> elfy: Welp, you're now seeding an outdated iso. ;)
<elfy> Unit193: no I'm not 
<elfy> unless there's a ghost doing it 
<Unit193> There was some American downloading before I stopped and loaded the new ones.
<elfy> I'm seeding to no-one 
<elfy> but I've got it there and will leave it overnight
<elfy> Unit193: is the 32 bit one ok?
<Unit193> Should be just fine, yep.  Did as much as I could to make sure, everything passed (except what was expected to fail.)
<elfy> okey doke - grabbing that now then I'll seed it too
<Unit193> Sure, thanks.
<elfy> ok - both there now 
<elfy> someone is grabbing the 64bit from me at mental speeds
<Unit193> Indeed, 2.2MB/s was what I was seeing, Verizon FIOS.
<elfy> yea same one
<knome> pleia2, ping
<pleia2> knome: pong
<knome> pleia2,      bzr branch lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1310 
<knome> ochosi, ^
<pleia2> knome: *now* it's a pull :)
<knome> how do i know if you deleted my poop
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> new firefox icon?
<knome> err, wait
<knome> i didn't update the tb shot
<knome> yeah, that and more
<pleia2> I mean, I don't see new ff icon
<knome> it is the new ff icon... :)
<knome> mortals are not supposed to notice the difference!
<pleia2> bah, I can't tell the difference :)
<pleia2> I see
<pleia2> looks good to me :)
<knome> yeah, except the internet slide is still outdated
<knome> let me fix that quickly
<knome> repull
<knome> should be version-agnostic now
<jono> pleia2, knome FYI: dropped a mail to the list re. tracking GPU testing
<jono> might make it easier to track the range of cards tested: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/GPUTesting
<texadactyl> jono, thanks for the URL above - very helpful
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-14
<texadactyl> Question: So fall-back to X while testing Intel GMA 3650 (Cedar View) is considered successful?
<Unit193> I'd call mine a failure, for sure.
<texadactyl> I'd call mine "partial success" in that lightdm successfully fielded the unity-system-compositor failure nad started X for me.  Better than nothing!  (-:
<texadactyl> At least with the modesetting X driver I am able to setup my display hardware correctly. 
<jono> texadactyl, if you have a card unsupported by Mir and it falls back to X, that is the intended outcome
<Unit193> But it isn't a Mir "success", Mir failed there.
<texadactyl> Unfortunately, Intel seems to have abandoned Cedar View (E.g. GMA 3650) motherboard support.  It's a pity.  Even Intel utility from 01.org cannot recognize their own hardware.  Fortunately, Xubuntu 13.04 and 13.10 have been able to load the modesetting X driver for me.
<texadactyl> I was hoping that Mir would be a new experience of usability.  However, I do like Xubuntu 13.10 in many ways.
<texadactyl> No complaints.
<texadactyl> jono, I sent a mail to the xubuntu-devel list with feedback related to my card.  Is that sufficient?
<texadactyl> "XMir on Xubuntu Install Test with Intel GMA 3650 graphics"
<Unit193> Aha, so you had issues both in live and updated install.
<texadactyl> Yes
<texadactyl> Its the same detection process
<texadactyl> I suspect that GMA 3650 is not supported.  I am looking for the supported hardware list now.
<Unit193> I don't think you'll find one, but could be wrong.
<texadactyl> (-:
<texadactyl> No worries
<texadactyl> Life could be worse.....I could be using Windoze !!
<texadactyl> ttfn, all, don't forget to have some fun today.
<jono> texadactyl, so any card that required propreitary drivers should fall back to X gracefully
<Noskcaj> I've got thunar on debian mentors which will allow us to sync it rather than merge it
<ochosi> hrrm, that indicator-sound bug is somewhat bothering, i hope it gets resolved in time for 13.10... (bug #1208204)
<ubottu> bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<elfy> ochosi: yea
<elfy> got mine working but it is only a workround
<ochosi> yeah, we really want that to work ootb
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> otherwise we can scrap indicators alltogether in xubuntu
<ochosi> (until the gtk3 panel arrives)
<ochosi> (which might be a while)
<Noskcaj> ochosi, i've tried to debian merge the indicator. it's possible that has a fix, i'll try and find it
<Noskcaj> never mind. that was the one i didn't do
<knome> lderan, if you are interested in a semi-low-hanging fruit bugs, see bug 697318
<ubottu> bug 697318 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Should grab Ubuntu release from /etc/lsb-release or /cdrom/.disk/info" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697318
<lderan> low hanging fruit sounds good :P
<lderan> shall take a look at it :)
<knome> thanks
<lderan> it is now on my server for when i get home, also got the new xubuntu ones as well from your email.
<knome> :)
<texadactyl> knome/pleia2,slideshow looks nice and all the links work 
<knome> texadactyl, thanks
<texadactyl> I had to install seahorse (Passwords and keys) myself.  I wonder why it wasn't included as part of the ISO?
<texadactyl> Odd, that
<knome> pleia2, hai
<knome> pleia2, do you have an opinion on the xubuntu wordpress theme license?
<knome> pleia2, i, as the author, am fine with anything that works for xubuntu
<knome> pleia2, i'm considering if we want to protect the unique look in a way or another though
<lkjj> Hello
<GridCube> hi
<pleia2> knome: apache or gpl2 make my life easiest
<ochosi> knome: the software-center screenshot has to be retaken with the elementary-xfce-darker icon theme (-> dark arrows), as that'll be the default in 13.10
<ochosi> knome: and if you want the bottom progress-bar to blend in more with the rest of the window (color-wise) let me know, i guess we can also try to theme that separately (although i guess it's not our top-priority atm)
<ochosi> knome: other than that it all looks nice!
<ochosi> knome: /review :)
 * Noskcaj just completed the slightly pointless task of updating xfce4 yes plugin
<lderan> Noskcaj, hussah
<Noskcaj> :)
 * Noskcaj really needs to find something less nerdy to do with his life
<lderan> knome, looks like we might be able to load the version number by passing it as a url variable to the slideshow, shall experiment
<lderan> knome, i have it working
<ochosi> oh nice, someone backported our 13.04 greybird to 12.04 :) http://cool4y.deviantart.com/art/Greybird-White-Theme-for-Xubuntu-12-04-369184213
<bluemirsabre> Unit193:dm_connection_start
<bluemirsabre> set_active_session '0'
<bluemirsabre> set_active_session
<Unit193> It done be workin'
<bluemirsabre> woot!
<Unit193> Lag?  Mouse movement lag?  Anything note worthy?
<Unit193> TTYs work!
<bluemirsabre> mouse is great, windows have some very minor tearing while dragging them
<ochosi> what graphics chip?
<Unit193> Tearing?  That was supposed to be the one good thing about Mir. :P
<bluemirsabre> :D
<bluemirsabre> Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA G98M [Quadro NVS 160M] 
<bluemirsabre>            X.org: 1.14.2 drivers: (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) FAILED: nouveau tty size: 80x24 Advanced Data: N/A for root 
<ochosi> i see
<Unit193> When you're done, can you  `file xubuntu-xmir.iso`  and make sure it is 0.0.9r970 and document on the pad?
<Unit193> bluemirsabre: inxi -G
<Unit193> :D
<bluemirsabre> Unit193: yup, thanks inxi!
<bluemirsabre> Unit193: link to the pad?
<Unit193> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir
<Unit193> (Typed it, hope it's right. ;P )\
<bluemirsabre> yup, its right.
<bluemirsabre> have they implemented multi-monitor yet?
<Unit193> Nope, they *think* they will on the day we decide, 22nd.
<bluemirsabre> gotcha
<Unit193> Same with comp bypass.
<lderan> knome, here it is when you have a few seconds to check to see if it works for you :) https://code.launchpad.net/~lderan/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/test
<bluemirsabre> Unit193: updated the pad
<Unit193> bluemirsabre: Thank you very much!  (Was honestly going to wait for a rainy day, not today!)
<Unit193> I should maybe update the wiki, then.
<bluemirsabre> lots of free time when my wife isn't home yet :D
<Unit193> Hah, woo!
<bluemirsabre> anything else I should test, or am I done for this version?
<Unit193> Just need to poke it enough to make up your mind, tried glxgears?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-15
<bluemirsabre> glxgears seems to be running pretty well, though I don't know how it would normally run for me on nouveau
<bluemirsabre> actually, moving my mouse sporadically makes glxgears slow down
<bluemirsabre> from 80 fps to 30
<bluemirsabre> brb, going to test glxgears in saucy without mir
<jjfrv8> Unit193, just installed r970 and have been poking it like you've described. Sorry to report no issues so far. :)
<jjfrv8> Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Dang, well thanks for trying at least.  Results to the pad?
<jjfrv8> Doing it now.
<jjfrv8> Ooops. Spoke to soon. Logged out and got stobing background. Logged back in and Xorg crashed.
<jjfrv8> *strobing
<Unit193> jjfrv8: How'd it compare to open source Xorg drivers without mir?  (glxgears)
<jjfrv8> How do I get there? Can I just reboot and pick my other Saucy image from grub? Or do I need to make it fall back somewhow?
<Unit193> As long as you don't have a OEM driver, sure.
<Unit193> If it's not a bother, that is.
<jjfrv8> np
<jjfrv8> Unit193, 60 fps
<Unit193> Hrm, that's greatly less than the XMir one.
<jjfrv8> for sure!
<Unit193> 0_o
 * Unit193 is very confused.
<bluesabre> only the proprietary drivers seem to be able to sync correctly
<bluesabre> perfect 60fps with nvidia
<Unit193> Minor weird thing, but topic: change the wiki link to http://ubottu.com/y/xubmap and change https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule to http://ubottu.com/y/saucysch ?
<elfy> I'll not make the meeting this afternoon, for what it's worth - I still have the same issues with xmir - no updates for it recently. I'll not use it in the state it's in. 
<Unit193> Same here, it's almost usable on the netbook, but not even close on anything else.
<Unit193> You can see all my testing data on the pad and wikipage.
<elfy> well it is usable - but I'll not put up with it not keeping up with me in normal use - typing is fine - it's just the refresh of pages annoying me
<smartboyhw> I won't gamble on it for 13.10 either....
<Unit193> I'd personally count that as almost usable or less if it's not keeping up even.
<elfy> it might be usable Unit193 but if we send xubuntu out like it then I'll stop using it
<elfy> I'm not willing to go backwards so that someone somewhere can say "ooh look see people are using mir"
<Unit193> I just didn't know how to basically say that without coming off as "If I don't get my way..." style.  I can always remove mir (before I put it live of course), and I honestly gave it a shot.
<elfy> well yea - I'm not saying that 
<Unit193> I know.
<elfy> as long as people know I'm not being petulant :)
<elfy> anyway - work calls - shall read logs later
<Unit193> Adios.
<Unit193> Same.
<knome> lderan, does that only have versionId -> 13.10, or could one get the codename out of it as well?
<lderan> at the moment it just scans the html and replaces .versionId
<lderan> oh yeah
<lderan> can do codename too
<lderan> tho it comes up with ubuntu for the distro name :(
<knome> i don't think the distro name is a problem
<lderan> cool
<knome> that's specific to the slideshow, but not version
<knome> so there's no reason to try to get it dynamically
<knome> it's always Xubuntu in the Xubuntu slideshow
<lderan> true
<lderan> shall add the version name to it this evening
<knome> cool
<knome> shall test that out after that then
<knome> but looking at the code, i have no doubts it wouldn't work
<lderan> thank you
<lderan> aye not much has been added :P
<knome> linked the bug to your branch
<lderan> ah cool thanks
<texadactyl> My 1st time at an xchat mtg.  Do you folks use audio?
<OvenWerks> no
<smartboyhw> no
<texadactyl> Now that's a change from corporate USA!  (-:
<OvenWerks> Many of us use a commandline irc client on a remote server :)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, eh, I use XChat here...
 * smartboyhw hates CLI IRC clients
<texadactyl> me too
<texadactyl> Xchat on Saussy
<OvenWerks> xchat is a good client.
<texadactyl> Xubuntu on Saussy has become my regular machine
<OvenWerks> irssi on screen lets me use the same running client on more than one machine at a time.
<smartboyhw> texadactyl, it's Saucy
<smartboyhw> Not Saussy...
<texadactyl> I failed spelling
<texadactyl> (:
 * OvenWerks did too
 * smartboyhw normally doesn't
<OvenWerks> that would be my guess
<texadactyl> Would love to get XMir to initialize.  Lightdm always falls back to X
<OvenWerks> That pretty much depends on your graphics chip
<texadactyl> Intel Mini-ITX Cedar View (GMA3650)
<OvenWerks> if xMIR doesn't know what to do with your chip it falls back to X
<texadactyl> yEP
<texadactyl> Never fails that test
<texadactyl> Very stable, faster than 13.04
<OvenWerks> my personal opinion is no MIR till after 14.04
<texadactyl> Let ubie be the pioneer?
<OvenWerks> yes
<texadactyl> (:
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, same from me too
<OvenWerks> There has been a lot of changes in the multi-media production SW and so up grading to 13.10 or 14.04 is going to be very worth while. a buggy MIR could really hurt people who rely on US for everyday work
<texadactyl> Good point about everyday stability
<OvenWerks> It is one thing to have a desktop that runs office and a browser, but another to try and test US entire SW suite
<texadactyl> Unfortunately, at the moment, there are no easy options for "Try XMir" and "Stop trying XMir".
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, don't forget, this is not a US channel and texadactyl may not know what is US:P
<texadactyl> It would not be a difficult utility to develop, though.
<OvenWerks> sorry.
<texadactyl> I do know what "US:P" is and my skin is very thick!  (-: 
<lderan> texadactyl: something that makes it fallback to x mmm you could propose that to the mir people
<texadactyl> I think that its a LightDM utility
<texadactyl> switch between the two
<texadactyl> BTW, werks, I've spent 1/2 of my adult life out of the US
<lderan> US:P according to google is the U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention
<texadactyl> lol
<smartboyhw> texadactyl, US != United States of America (at least in OvenWerks and my terms)
<OvenWerks> US in this case = ubuntustudio which relies on xubuntu
<smartboyhw> !ubuntustudio
<ubottu> UbuntuStudio is a collection of packages for the artist who wishes to use Ubuntu as their Digital Audio Workstation. It contains all the best Audio/Visual components from the Ubuntu repositories. For more info and install instructions, join #ubuntustudio or see http://ubuntustudio.org
<smartboyhw> (Sorry for OT)
<texadactyl> Ah
<texadactyl> At hacker sites, US:P means something else
<OvenWerks> there is some people who try to help both. Any work we do for xubuntu helps studio.
<smartboyhw> texadactyl, well when I am saying US:P I mean they don't know what is "US" :P
 * GridCube is here for the meeting \o
<smartboyhw> o/ (as an audience)
<texadactyl> Len, Mir could be safely released if LightDM was changed slightly to decide whether or not to launch Mir based on a lightdm.conf (new) parameter (switch).  By default, it should probably be off.
<texadactyl> So, if you want to experiment with Mir, edit the file (turn on switch) and reboot.
<texadactyl> At the moment, the Xubuntu LightDM seems to be predisposed to unconditionally attempt Mir
<texadactyl> Seems like an easy and low-risk change to me
<micahg> should that depend on which env you select in the greeter?
<micahg> *shouldn't
<micahg> maybe not
<micahg> well, the issue is the greeter is sitting on top of whatever display server already
<texadactyl> Decision is long before greeter
<texadactyl> Check out the /var/log/lightdm/ logs
<micahg> sure, but the greeter is the first chance a user has to select env :)
<texadactyl> E.g. in my case, if there was such a switch, I'd try it once, see that LightDM falls back, and then set the config switch back to default (off).
<micahg> aside from grub boot (which isn't visible in most cases anymore
<texadactyl> after grub and before greeter
<texadactyl> LightDM is an upstart
<GridCube> Meeting time?
<micahg> upstart is system interaction, not user, but yeah, there could be a switch somewhere in the upstart layer
<skellat> Rounding up bugs
<smartboyhw> texadactyl, you mean, an upstart job?
 * smartboyhw calls for Dear knome 
<texadactyl> yes
<tvoss_> hey all :)
<texadactyl> Do a ps ax.....you'll see that lightdm is soon after cron in process id value
<jono> for those who don't know him, tvoss_ is technical architect for Mir :-)
<tvoss_> smartboyhw, hey there :)
<tvoss_> o/
<smartboyhw> tvoss_, :)
<smartboyhw> Nice to meet you again:P
<texadactyl> Meeting time, rubber time?  (:
<tvoss_> smartboyhw, yup
<GridCube> :) ohai!
<lderan> Hello
<olli> hi everybody
<tvoss_> hey
<smartboyhw> Welcome Mir team:P
 * smartboyhw is just an audience anyway
<micahg> knome: ping?
<texadactyl> He's grey
<smartboyhw> Is pleia2 attending?
<smartboyhw> texadactyl, that's why we need to get him here;P
<micahg> please note this meeting is just a checkpoint meeting to make sure we're on track for a decision next week and to make sure we're communicating effectively with the Mir team about outstanding issues
<GridCube> smartboyhw: pleia2 has excused herself, she is not feeling well
<smartboyhw> GridCube, :(
<smartboyhw> The decision is NEXT WEEK...
<GridCube> true
<micahg> for Xubuntu, probably
<smartboyhw> micahg, is next meeting next Thursday?
<micahg> yeah
<smartboyhw> Because I have to remind you guys, it's 12.04.3 release day
<micahg> smartboyhw: that's great, I think we forgot about that...
<knome> allÃ¶!
<micahg> knome: are we releasing 12.04.3?
<knome> i'm sorry i've a few minutes late
<knome> micahg, we should, we even did one SRU bug procedure..
<micahg> smartboyhw: I don't think that being a release day will impact our need for a decision though
<smartboyhw> micahg, sure:)
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 15 15:04:52 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<micahg> knome: do we have images/testers?
<smartboyhw> micahg, I will test for you guys:)
<GridCube> :)
<micahg> knome: we're still oversized I think, I should fix that
<knome> micahg, yes, we'll have testers
<knome> micahg, but we also need the SRU uploaded
<skellat> micahg: And that SRU kinda needs to be done eventually
<knome> (it's the docs)
<micahg> knome: SRU won't be in 12.04.3
<knome> micahg, aha?
 * smartboyhw thinks we should get the main topic back on track so the Mir team doesn't get confused:P
<knome> micahg, then i don't know why we're releasing.
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<micahg> knome: updated kernel?
<micahg> knome: let's discuss later
 * knome shrugs
<tvoss_> smartboyhw, no worries, all good on this end :)
<knome> #action bluesabre to create a basic user-profile-image app 
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to create a basic user-profile-image app
<knome> #action team to write lightdm greeter testcase
<meetingology> ACTION: team to write lightdm greeter testcase
<knome> #nick team
<knome> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
<knome> i think those are the open items
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> apart from Mir testing, what's up?
<knome> (please use #info)
<skellat> #info skellat prepared an SRU bug for the revised documentation for 12.04
<knome> micahg, can we discuss why we can't get that uploaded and in the SRU?
<GridCube> #info Desktop of the week will choose and propose the first desktop for tomorrow, we hope it gets its proper place in the main site and social networks
<micahg> knome: week before image release is too late for an SRU
<micahg> it takes 7 days to get through -proposed
<knome> micahg, it is a documentation update, and the bug has been ready for ages
<lderan> #info adding in the ability for the installation slideshow to automatically use the version number, and soon the version name
<micahg> knome: right, but needs to be uploaded
<skellat> #info Unit193 and GridCube both made waves in media relative to the experimental XMir image
<knome> micahg, sure. but there has been enough time to do that.
<micahg> knome: right, but as no one has done it, it doesn't go in
<smartboyhw> #info 12.04.3 is next week...
<micahg> we can have it in updates a week from Monday hopefully, i'll try to upload this weekend
<skellat> #info skellat will be presenting UbuCon at Ohio Linux Fest 2013 and intends to represent Xubuntu whilst there
<knome> micahg, is it a given that it takes a week, or can we make it happen faster by poking the right people?
<micahg> knome: it would need to be in already to get on the image
<knome> GridCube, we'll have to see how to incorporate the gallery to the website. selecting is fine this week, but can we postpone release to next week, say mon/tue?
<micahg> we lost track of the release schedule unfortunately, so we weren't ready
<GridCube> knome: ill inform the team then
<knome> GridCube, thanks
<micahg> if I would've remembered, i would've uploaded already
<knome> micahg, we didn't - we just didn't have uploaders handy. we need to do something for that
<knome> micahg, if i can sort the rest of the bureaucracy and social things out, can you upload today?
<GridCube> #action: GridCube to inform the desktop of the week team that the site will be ready next week, we should prepare a few options for the upcoming weeks
<meetingology> ACTION: : GridCube to inform the desktop of the week team that the site will be ready next week, we should prepare a few options for the upcoming weeks
<skellat> Requests were made to multiple SRU vanguards as per procedure
<micahg> knome: sure
<knome> micahg, thanks
<knome> #action knome to make sure the docs hit the 12.04.3 SRU
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to make sure the docs hit the 12.04.3 SRU
<micahg> skellat: SRU people can't do anything until it's uploaded
<knome> #action micahg to upload docs SRU
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to upload docs SRU
<micahg> if someone would've just reminded me 12.04.3 is coming I would've done it
<knome> sure
<skellat> micahg: Acknowledged.
<micahg> I didn't realize we were up against a dealine
 * smartboyhw has, but too late:P
<knome> yeah, ACK
<lderan> GridCube: when & how are we deciding on the desktop? a mini meeting at some point?
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> i had one but i forgot...
<smartboyhw> knome, :O
 * knome shrugs
<knome> anybody else+
<knome> ?
<skellat> Anybody who has Xubuntu stuff they would like to have given away at Ohio Linux Fest...please let me know
<knome> skellat, when is that?
<skellat> September 13th will be UbuCon
<knome> skellat, and, you should probably ask pleia2 if she has any excess
<skellat> Understood
<knome> skellat, or if we could make unixstickers.com send you some
<skellat> Cool
<knome> (they usually share revenue, but since we can't take money, they'll send us free swag now and then)
<GridCube> lderan: probably trhough the mails
<skellat> Anybody who is within the team and is able to make it to UbuCon is more than welcome to join us.  UbuCon will be free to attend on the 13th of September.  There will be standing recognition at the start of the day for all Ubuntu Member folks in attendance.
<knome> nice
<knome> have fun there skellat :)
<GridCube> lderan: not all the people in the desktop of the week can joing irc at the same time
<lderan> GridCube: sounds good to me
<knome> lderan, GridCube, can we discuss this at the end of the meeting?
<GridCube> sure, sorry
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> #subtopic Mir: Feedback and discussion, roadmapping the last week before decisions 
<knome> Unit193, skellat, people: floor's yours
<skellat> I have some relevant bugs to lay out for the purposes of today's discussion
<skellat> LP Bug #1102757
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1102757 in Mir "System compositor children receive all input events" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102757
<skellat> LP Bug #1196239
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196239 in Mir "Cannot change display resolution" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196239
<skellat> LP Bug #1195811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1195811 in linux (Ubuntu) "nouveau: Abnormally high FPS (no vsync) on natively mir testing demo-clients." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195811
<skellat> LP Bug #1193222
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1193222 in XMir "Screen never sleeps; missing power management" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193222
<skellat> LP Bug #1109963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1109963 in Mir "Mir lacks a direct rendering ("bypass") mode" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1109963
<skellat> LP Bug #1102760
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1102760 in XMir "Multi-monitor support incomplete - can't show different images on each screen" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102760
 * tvoss_ waits a little :)
<skellat> First off, I want to thank tvoss_ for joining us today.
<tvoss_> skellat, thanks for having me here :)
<GridCube> :) yes, thank you tvoss_ 
<skellat> The bugs mentioned above look like the most major ones we need to worry about.
<skellat> Our goal in considering XMir/Mir overall is to address whether or not this represents an overall regression.
<tvoss_> skellat, sure, want me to quickly walk through them and relate them to the team's roadmap/current work?
<skellat> Will XMir/Mir present an experience to the user that markedly differs from that in 13.04, 12.10, and 12.04.
<skellat> tvoss_: Hold on just a moment
<tvoss_> skellat, sure :)
<skellat> We also have a request made via Jono Bacon to hold off on making our decision as some code is expected to land on August 22nd to address multi-monitor support and composite bypass.
<skellat> Before we get too far along, I would hand over to tvoss_ to address the Mir crew's roadmap/current work.
<knome> very well :) tvoss_: welcome!
<skellat> tvoss_: The floor is yours
<tvoss_> skellat, thanks :) so first off: thanks for testing Mir, and for putting together the iso. For the bugs that skellat layed out here: multi-monitor and composite bypass are features that the team is actively working upon
<tvoss_> for composite bypass, that would be 1109963, for multi-monitor work 1102760 and 1196239
<jono> (btw, I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/GPUTesting for tracking testing for different GPUs)
<knome> tvoss_, jono pointed out that the deadline for those is August 22, is this still the target?
<tvoss_> knome, yup, the team is committed to land those features by that date
<olli> knome, we target landing on 8/22
<olli> but reality might have us +/-1d
<tvoss_> olli, true, thanks 
<knome> tvoss_, olli: if you could keep us informed on that, would be great; aug 22 is set as our decision date, and if everything else seems to work for us we might want to postpone that a *few* days (not a week)
<tvoss_> knome, sure, we will make sure you are up to date. I would think a post to your ml is okay?
<olli> knome, our goal is to have the features available (and backed by a larger call for testing) with enough time to Feature Freeze on 8/29
<jono> knome, we will definitely keep you informed
<knome> tvoss_, definitely. if you send me your email i can add it to auto-approved if you aren't subscribed (olli as well)
<skellat> A small preference would be to avoid having to make the decision during the UDS timeframe
<tvoss_> knome, thanks
<tvoss_> skellat, noted down
<olli> tvoss_, shall we talk about the list of bugs skellat posted earlier
<tvoss_> olli, yeah, just looking at them again, filtering out the multi-monitor and bypass bugs/features
<olli> fyi: we consider MultiMonitor and composite bypass as major feature deliveries, whereas missing dpms is a bug at this stage
<olli> using dpms as an example
<tvoss_> yeah, for #1102757: vt switching is working now with XMir from the archive and I *think* the bug is fixed, too. Will check with the team tomorrow and update the status
<jono> skellat, why not make the decision in the UDS timeframe? isn't that what UDS is for? :-)
<smartboyhw> jono, I think the problem is that Xubuntu needs to make the FF
<tvoss_> olli, skellat for the dpms bug: Mir is capable of switching off the screen, we need to wire that up to the X side of things
<smartboyhw> Which is on 29th
<smartboyhw> FF = Feature Freeze
<skellat> jono: I'll come to that in a moment but we need to let the folks from the Mir crew continue
<jono> smartboyhw, ahh I see, too close to FF
<jono> np
 * GridCube wonders if canonical would'nt just disregard the problems with ff in this matter
<jono> agreed about making the decision earlier :-)
<skellat> GridCube, that would be jumping ahead to another question.  But since we've disposed of LP Bug #1102757 let us let the Mir crew continue.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1102757 in Mir "System compositor children receive all input events" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102757
<tvoss_> skellat, finally: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1195811 is being worked upon, too. It turns out to be an issue in the kernel (as per the comment stream on the bug) and we are making progress on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1195811 in linux (Ubuntu) "nouveau: Abnormally high FPS (no vsync) on natively mir testing demo-clients." [Undecided,In progress]
<skellat> tvoss_: For that we had bluesabre experience it in testing Wednesday night directly
<tvoss_> skellat, ah, with XMir?
<skellat> Yes
<skellat> Any coordination with the Kernel crew on resolving that issue?
<tvoss_> skellat, mlankhorst is looking into it, he is pretty familiar with the nouveau and kernel drm bits
<skellat> Okay
<texadactyl> tvoss, I'd like to see a Mir on/off switch in lightdm.conf so that folks choose whether to try Mir or go straight to X
<olli> texadactyl, that's in place
<tvoss_> texadactyl, yeah. so you can disable Mir bei either apt-get removing unity-system-compositor or by commenting out type=unity in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-unity-system-compositor.conf
<smartboyhw> I think he wants a GUI one....
<tvoss_> texadactyl, that's what I use to do benchmarking for example
<texadactyl> dont need a gui
<smartboyhw> texadactyl, heh, say it earlier and I would've told you that:)
<texadactyl> Which parameter tag for lightdm.conf?
<GridCube> GUIs are always good
<texadactyl> Sure but a parameter is enough
<GridCube> yes
<smartboyhw> texadactyl, in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-unity-system-compositor.conf
<smartboyhw> Comment out type=unity if you don't want Mir
<tvoss_> texadactyl, so are you happy with commenting out type=unity in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-unity-system-compositor.conf?
<texadactyl> I was hoping for a flag type of parameter in /etc/lightdm.conf
<texadactyl> but ok
<skellat> Okay, if we can come back to LP Bug #1196239...I was wondering if the Mir crew could explain that issue a little further if possible.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196239 in Mir "Cannot change display resolution" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196239
<GridCube> shouldnt it be type=mir?
<smartboyhw> GridCube, no:P
<GridCube> type=unity makes no much sense to me
<texadactyl> No, "unity" is correct
<tvoss_> skellat, looking again
<GridCube> its not unity we want to disable its mir...
<smartboyhw> GridCube, because XMir needs the Unity System Compositor to work
<smartboyhw> That's why...
<texadactyl> unity-system-compositor is the executable that does the detection of graphics card
<texadactyl> In my case, it gives up    )-:
<GridCube> then, it should be the whole of that
<tvoss_> GridCube, in that case: just apt-get remove unity-system-compositor
<texadactyl> But we want folks who are able to try it
<texadactyl> Blowing up is ok
<texadactyl> (:
<texadactyl> Its part of the experience, yes?
<skellat> Okay, I think that line of discussion needs to be parked for the moment.  We can come back to it but we need to handle this last bug issue.
<GridCube> well no, thats not either, if its a setting, like to test no mir, then i would think its "use-mir=false" or something like that, but again im not a programmer and you know more
<texadactyl> agreed, cube
<tvoss_> skellat, so for the resolution bug: as mentioned on the comment stream, that is part of multi-monitor work. Mir is taking over display detection and configuration in the system-compositor scenario
<texadactyl> put it in lightdm.conf
<skellat> tvoss_: Okay, so that is folded into the whole matter.
<tvoss_> skellat, right, and X's xrandr is wired up to Mir in the XMir scenario
<tvoss_> skellat, that wasn't the case when the bug was filed but will be enabled by multi-monitor support
<skellat> tvoss_: A tricky set of legacies developed over 25 years that have had to be untangled in a very short amount of time, then?
<skellat> Now, to get back to the question from jono about avoiding UDS for making a decision.
<tvoss_> skellat, yes, but xrandr is straightforward enough to be able to wire it up to mir and its client side api
<skellat> The main reason we need to avoid UDS is because UDS-1308 falls around Feature Freeze.  Due to the varying schedules of our team, it must be remembered that last UDS we de-coupled from it to have the "Three Nights of Xubuntu" outside the UDS schedule so we could get maximum participation.
<skellat> For a decision this major we want to ensure we have it done somewhat before Feature Freeze and so that our uploader developers are also able to fully chime in.
<skellat> They have complicated schedules and their participation is essential.
<skellat> There has already been mailing list discussion about how to handle announcing during the UDS time period whatever decision we make but nothing final has come of that yet.
<jono> skellat, as I said, I now understand your point
<jono> I forgot FF was the same few days as UDS
<jono> agreed in making a decision earlier
<knome> jono, generally, from my POV, it is really weird that vUDS is literally ending up on the day of FF
<jono> knome, well, UDS is designed to plan the next three months of work
<knome> this makes it prone for developers to announce new things that "need" to be in the release really close to the deadlines
<knome> sure. then why not schedule it after the FF, if it has no connection with that?
<knome> everybody is busy before FF anyway
<knome> just saying, for future considerations
<jono> knome, well, that issue is not an issue with UDS timing but with the devs ;-)
<knome> well, it is
<jono> devs should not be announcing things that have to be in with a day's notice :-)
<knome> no, but devs are the ones that are attending UDS
<micahg> devs shouldn't be wasting time with days of meetings before FF
<jono> knome, I guess I don't understand the problem with UDS timing here
<skellat> Okay
<knome> and if that's right before FF, it's bad scheduling
<jono> oh I see
<jono> so the issue is devs focusing on UDS and not release?
<micahg> right
<jono> gotcha
<jono> agreed
<jono> we will try to prevent that in future
<jono> fair point
<xequence> why not have a UDS right after release, as usual? 
<knome> (and the other point is that we've seen late announcements before, and from my POV, vUDS days before FF sounds a bad idea regarding that)
<xequence> and the next one 3 months after that
<smartboyhw> +1
<jono> np
<knome> or, announcing features that *will* land before FF, but basically makes everybody fix and tweak a lot of things
<knome> jono, if you see where i'm coming from?
<jono> knome, yup
<skellat> Right now I want to thank the Mir crew representatives for joining us and for all the hard work they've put into the monumental task they're undertaking.  Before we go into any questions, the last question I want to be put to the Mir crew is whether or not the somewhat general Feature Freeze exception for Touch announced by Steve Langasek would also allow continuing effort to be put in indirectly to land further refinements to desktop display
<jono> I agree in making UDS after FF
<knome> jono, great, thanks.
<jono> knome, will check the release schedule more rigorously in future when picking dates :-)
<xequence> oct, jan, april, july (I suppose July is not a good month for UDS)
<knome> jono, great
<smartboyhw> jono, will that be in effect for this UDS?
<jono> smartboyhw, I am not changing the dates of the UDS in two weeks, no
<jono> but the following one we will assess the release schedule more closely
<knome> thanks olli and tvoss_!
<knome> (and jono)
<knome> if nobody has anything else regarding mir, let's move on
<jono> thanks, folks
<GridCube> :)
<tvoss_> knome and all, thanks for the invitation and thanks for your feedback :)
<olli> skellat, re FFe: we target to not use an FFe for Mir/Xmir
<skellat> olli: Excellent.
<olli> for features specifically
<skellat> Thank you for joining us gentlemen.
<knome> tvoss_, olli: no problem! if it fits your schedule, i'm sure people won't mind you being around next week at the same time and place
<olli> we acknowledge that by 8/29 there will probably be bugs lingering
<smartboyhw> olli, if it's just bugfixes you don't need an FFe anyway:P
<olli> which we hope to squash well before Final Freeze
<tvoss_> knome, yup, I will be around
<knome> tvoss_, cheers!
<knome> olli, if you PM me your email address, i can add it to auto-approve on our developer mailing list
<knome> #subtopic Proposal for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs
<knome> skellat, want to postpone?
<olli> knome, thx, will be here
<knome> skellat, or want to go ahead?
<skellat> knome: Carry over
<knome> oki
<knome> #subtopic Inclusion of Xfce 4.11 components in Xubuntu 13.10
<knome> i'm quite tight on time, but...
<knome> i would think we should cherry-pick some components
<micahg> that needs input from mr_pouit and I don't see him around
<knome> Noskcaj has been packaging some already
<knome> i'll get ahold of mr_pouit 
<knome> basically, what i'm thinking is:
<knome> xfce 4.12 won't be released before 13.10 FF
<knome> it's not clear if it's released before 14.04 FF
<knome> the 4.11 components have things that we've been preparing for some time already, and it would be quite sad to not have them in the LTS
<micahg> well, if it were just the first issue and not the second, I'd happily take them now
<knome> and since they are ready now, i don't see any reason not to include them now (also to have a larger testing base)
<micahg> it's the second that concerns me, so that why I'd rather have mr_pouit's input
<knome> not being ready for 14.04?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> we have to worry about the LTS -> LTS upgrades both ways
<knome> i mean, i'd still want *some* 4.11 stuff in 14.04 anyway
<knome> to name a specific feature, i would like the display-dialog in 13.10
<knome> there's also a patch that allows gtk3 indicators work on a gtk2 panel
<knome> it's not clear if it's ever going to be included in xfce itself, but it's something we might want to consider, as ochosi said
<micahg> patches we can cherry pick if needed
<micahg> as for the feature stuff, if mr_pouit signs off, I'll do my best to get stuff in by FF
<knome> i *know* it brings a delta, and i *know* it's more maintaining, but realistically, it's something we want more than the xfce team needs
<knome> so, anyway...
<knome> #action knome to contact mr_pouit about including xfce 4.11 stuff in 13.10
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to contact mr_pouit about including xfce 4.11 stuff in 13.10
<micahg> well, GTK3 indicators on GTK2 panel would mean dropping a lot of the GTK 2 indicator stack, so that's a big win
<knome> definitely, and would mean we could lose some maintaining from that side
<micahg> and get the messages indicator back ;)
<knome> yup
<knome> let's discuss this throughout the week more
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #info Next meeting is August 22, 15UTC.
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 15 16:08:38 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-15-15.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-15-15.04.html
<knome> thanks everybodu!
<knome> s/u/y/
<smartboyhw> knome, :)
<knome> i'll update the logs later today
<knome> ok, i'm off for now.
<knome> see you later
<knome> (i'll try to handle the SRU stuff later)
<elfy> knome: just so you are aware - the lightdm greeter testcase hasn't been written yet because of the bug in it - when that's dealt with I can do the testcase - will take no time at all
<Unit193> tvoss_: One question I didn't see asked, and couldn't make the meeting.  Where does virtual support stand?
<tvoss_> Unit193, on the list, but bypass and multi-monitor have a higher priority. I will cross-check with the team though
<Unit193> Of course, but last I saw was a comment "We don't need this for 13.10" :/
<OvenWerks> cub: in #xubuntu-devel "< texadactyl> Len, Mir could be safely released if LightDM was changed  slightly to decide whether or not to launch Mir based on a  lightdm.conf (new) parameter (switch).  By default, it  should probably be off.
<OvenWerks> cub: in #xubuntu-devel "< texadactyl> Len, Mir could be safely released if LightDM was changed  slightly to decide whether or not to launch Mir based on a  lightdm.conf (new) parameter (switch).  By default, it  should probably be off.
<OvenWerks> cub: in #xubuntu-devel "< texadactyl> Len, Mir could be safely released if LightDM was changed  slightly to decide whether or not to launch Mir based on a  lightdm.conf (new) parameter (switch).  By default, it  should probably be off.
<OvenWerks> Ack! my mouse is being bad sorry for the noise.
<lderan> knome, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=UPtAVFg1 this now produces this http://lderan.co.uk/welcome.png :P
<lderan> and its now on my lp branch
<Unit193> grep VERSION= /etc/os-release  is more "pretty"
<lderan> python doesn't have the ability to grep things as far as I know, would have to scan the file manually
<lderan> distro, version, release = platform.linux_distribution() isn't too bad :P
<Unit193> lderan: Sure, it's the way to get the output so you can see it, also just my opinion. :P
<knome> lderan, ahh... instead of "raring", i thought the interesting string would have been "Raring Ringtail"
<lderan> can get it from the /etc/os-release, its just raring in /etc/lsb-release
<knome> yeah, that's pretty useless in user-facing stuff
<lderan> okay
<Unit193> And the version number changes for point releases.
<knome> Unit193, but that's a non-problem
<Unit193> knome: I was thinking handy, actually.
<knome> Unit193, at least from my POV, but sure, you could strip off the first 5 chars :P
<knome> mhm
<knome> upgrading system
<knome> and when i say that, i mean updating packages :P
<Unit193> apt-get dist-upgrade, the best way!
<knome> that
<Unit193> I have 3.10.7 in queue, maybe should reboot. ;P
<lderan> so to be sure i get it to output the right stuff, "Raring Ringtail" & "13.04"? would "13.04, Raring Ringtail" be of any use?
<knome> i'd just make them use separately
<knome> *available for use
<lderan> sure thing
<knome> i don't think we should worry about the formatting itself, people can figure that out
<micahg> distro  info would be the canonical way to get latest stable now
<knome> hmm?
<Unit193> `distro-info` doesn't get it from the currently running system, though.
<micahg> check out the distro-info package
<micahg> no
<Noskcaj> micahg, Can you try and fix the indicator plugin patch? i have zero knowledge of C
<knome> micahg, the point *is* to get the version from the current system
<micahg> Noskcaj: yes, was already on my list
<Noskcaj> micahg, thanks
<knome> micahg, we're showing that information in the installer slideshow, so it's better not tell you lies about your system ;)
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<micahg> knome: ah, slideshow should have a version variable (if not, that's a feature request)
<Noskcaj> knome, On the topic of the slideshow, can someone add an OEM slideshow? I made on for 13.04, but no-one merged it
<micahg> ochosi: yes, gtk-theme-config still on my list
<knome> micahg, it is a feature request, and we're working on right now :)
<knome> Noskcaj, how does one get to xubuntu oem installation?
<ochosi> micahg: hehe
<Noskcaj> knome, select the option when you first load the installer
<ochosi> micahg: i (also) wanted to say that i'm currently locally testing the gtk3-panel-wrapper for the indicator-plugin
<Noskcaj> so far only ubuntu has an OEM slideshow
<micahg> knome: if it's build time, lsb_release -cs or lsb_release -rs with a build dependency on lsb-release
<micahg> or if lsb-release is in the live env
<micahg> ochosi: ok
<knome> micahg, don't tell me! lderan is on it, and i think he's finding a python way to do that
<micahg> ah, yeah, there's a python way as well
<micahg> idr offhand
<ochosi> micahg: not sure who would take the final call but it sounded like you would be approving the delta (if it works)
<knome> micahg, there's an implementation that gets the version number already, just adding the codename here :)
<lderan> yeah at the moment it just returns "raring"
<micahg> distro info can provide more info
<micahg> and it has a python module
<knome> micahg, but if it's not installed by default in all flavors, it's no good
<micahg> could be part of the installer seed :)
<micahg> it's smal
<micahg> small even, under 10k
<knome> i know, but if we can do it with whatever we have now, why bother?
<micahg> *if* :)
<knome> and even if it's small, it's still more load to the ISOs, and nobody wants that
<knome> i'm pretty sure we can.
<lderan> the info is in /etc/os-release, if we can access it from the installer slideshow bit
<Unit193> It would then also show you the running system, not sure how it'd be done with distro-info, personally.  I've used that in another script, though.
<ochosi> micahg: i've successfully installed the gtk3-panel and wrapper and indicator-plugin for gtk3, but it still tries to load gtk2 indicators, any idea where/how those are linked? (already uninstalled the two gtk2 indicator packages)
<micahg> xfce4-indicator-plugin?
<ochosi> yea, i guess
<ochosi> right now i get: (wrapper-2.0:23584): Gtk-ERROR **: GTK+ 2.x symbols detected. Using GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ 3 in the same process is not supported
<ochosi> so i assumed it tries to load gtk2 indicators
<micahg> well, that's the whole problem withgtk2 panel, gtk3 indicators
<ochosi> well right, but supposedly the wrapper-2 fixes that
<ochosi> i've had gtk2 plugins in a gtk3 panel woring
<ochosi> working
<ochosi> so i doN't think the other way round is a problem
<ochosi> anyhoo, guess i gotta sleep now, i'll try again on the weekend..
<Unit193> Good night.
<lderan> doesn't look like distro-info provides the current version name, can list them and tell which are lts and which is the newest tho.
<micahg> lderan: get the current the way you were and use distro info to give you it in whatever form you wat
<micahg> *want
<lderan> aye
<lderan> sounds good to me
<Unit193> Ah, I see.
<bluesabre> dang, so much backlog
<Unit193> bluesabre: Haaaave fun.
<bluesabre> skellat: I would like to point out that the nouveau drivers themselves do not do vsync.  With nouveau and no xmir, I was getting 120 FPS
<bluesabre> with nouveau + xmir, it was 30-80
<bluesabre> nvidia-310 or 315 = 60
<Unit193> bluesabre: I got less than half as well, on the other lappy.
<bluesabre> fun stuff
<bluesabre> so definitely a performance hit for gl
<bluesabre> knome: +1 for the display dialog, it would probably be beneficial for the sound indicator as well
<micahg> bluesabre: do I have a new catfish to upload yet?
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you get a chance, could you check if the sound indicator works in saucy with the gtk3 panel?
<knome> indicators in general, if we pulled the gtk3-indicators-in-gtk2-patch
<knome> gtk2-panel-*
<bluesabre> micahg: I'll have it available this weekend, been tied up like crazy lately
<micahg> bluesabre: same here
<knome> bluesabre, TMI
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> micahg: I also have mugshot available, going to do a 0.2 release this weekend, then I'll need a friendly uploader if we still want it in saucy :)
<micahg> bluesabre: I'm guessing we're not having half the fun knome is
<bluesabre> it seems that way :D
<micahg> bluesabre: what is mugshot?
<knome> micahg, read/think sean's comment *literally*
<micahg> knome: I know :), I just carried the reference forward
<bluesabre> micahg: user profile pic/details app (since lightdm now supports user profile images)
<bluesabre> http://www.smdavis.us/2013/07/27/mugshot-quick-and-easy-user-config/
<knome> micahg, oki, gotcha ;)
<bluesabre> we've had some testing across xubuntu-devel ML
<micahg> bluesabre: any reason that can't go in Debian?
<bluesabre> no reason, but I'll have to find a debian sponsor (I'll work on that this weekend too)
<micahg> I can upload that with gtk-theme-config to mentors
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'll ping you about that when I get 0.2 out then :)
<micahg> ok
<Noskcaj> If that get's sponsored in time for saucy, i will be shocked. i have 10 packages in mentors that know one has touched
<knome> Noskcaj, have you seeked out for mentors or just uploaded them there?
<Noskcaj> knome, I've searched for mentors, including th xfce team 
<Unit193> Only problem I had was someone taking over an expired bug, had to work that out first.  I didn't really use mentors with the one I got through.
<GridCube> :) im gonna test xmir i386
<GridCube> brb
<Unit193> Poor guy.
<bluesabre> :D
 * skellat is still putting the finishing touches on downgrading his netbook to 12.04
<GridXmir> :( typing lag
<Unit193> ...Really?  What version was the iso?  `file xubuntuxmir.iso` will tell you.  That was supposed to be fixed.
<Unit193> Also, if you use the open source drivers, can you compare the output of glxgears to it?
<Unit193> (And pad the info?)
<GridXmir> i tried glxgears just before, and now im installing them
<GridXmir> it was 60fps with nvidia drivers
<Unit193> nVidia drivers have a big advantage, yep.
<GridXmir> hahaha it says 863fps
<GridXmir> 7578 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1515.160 FPS
<GridXmir> +
<Unit193> Lies and slander, me thinks.
<lderan> :P
<Unit193> Mine went from 30 to 19. :D
<GridXmir> dual monitors works worst than last time
<GridXmir> typing lag is gone now
<GridXmir> same as last time i cannot accept the TOC of the msfonts
<GridXmir> it wont accept the enter key on OK
<GridXmir> well it did
<GridXmir> lots of  tearing in html5 video in youtube, 
<GridXmir> ok what files should i fetch while in xmir?
<GridXmir> i really want leave now this session 
<knome> GridXmir, aren't the instructions on Unit193's website?
<GridXmir> yeah it says give report i dont know what to report
<Unit193> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir
<OvenWerks> Unit193: what are the possibilities of setting RL3 to xMir and leaving RL2 on X?
<OvenWerks> (RL = run level
<Unit193> OvenWerks: Lightdm is what's starting it, I don't see how that'd work?
<OvenWerks> run lightdm with two different config files?
<OvenWerks> can lightdm take the name of config on cl?
<Unit193> 1.  Simply remove unity-system-compositor and/or the xorg-xmir package.  2. Comment it out in the lightdm xmir config file.
<Unit193> -c, --config=FILE                   Use configuration file
<OvenWerks> I was thinking for testing without reboot...
<Unit193> Ah, if you install everything, I'd *think* you can just sudo service lightdm restart, no?
<OvenWerks> That maight be easier
<OvenWerks> Thanks for the tip.
<Unit193> Sure.
<OvenWerks> It is just that even if xMir is not default, if it is installed and can be tested easily, there is more likely to be useful bug reports
<Unit193> OvenWerks: IMHO, it's easier to leave it uninstalled, that way all people have to do is install u-s-c and that'll pull in everything needed, don't have to enable or anything.
<OvenWerks> Unit193: Most of the time I want a known stable system, once in a while I am willing to do some testing. I do not want to find out part way through a project how xmir doesn't work..
<OvenWerks> in the end it will probably end up two partitions though.
<Unit193> OvenWerks: I get that, I wasn't interested in installing saucy, then installing mir, and turns it would have been a very bad idea for me. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-16
<bluesabre> I think we should add our Xubuntu preset to the Terminal presets
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: finally got around to it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1212905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1212905 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Please merge thunar 1.6.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> let me know what I messed up ;)
<micahg> bluesabre: in a merge, you want to list the stuff that remains a delta and deltas that were dropped
<GridCube> howdy
<elfy> knome: I'm going to work on a wiki list of bugs we see during installs as per a conversation with michag - you got any preference to a name for it? 
<Unit193> There used to be one several cycles back.
<mikodo> Hi guys. I burned the Xubuntu 13.10 XMir-AMD 64 Bit .iso to DVD. Does anyone have any *quick links*, telling me what to do for testing it. Like, * what do you want me to do and report*.  I registered with xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com to send the results and specs of my compurter.
<Unit193> You generally use it a little and see how it "feels", another test would be to run glxgears and compare it to the open source drivers in Xorg.
<Unit193> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir is the results pad.
<mikodo> Unit193,  I I'll stick it on a spare partition.
<mikodo> Unit193, Thanks. 
<Unit193> Alrighty, sure.
<mikodo> Unit193, I can never get into http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir something about OpenID Authentication Required so I thought I would report on the mailing list
<Unit193> Yeah, it wants you to login using launchpad.
<mikodo> Unit193, I have that, but I see nowhere on the page to login
<mikodo> Just a blank page with OpenID Authentication Required
<Unit193> Hah, that's niiice. :P
<mikodo> Unit193, Do you get that too?
<Unit193> mikodo: No, it redirects to login.ubuntu.com
<mikodo> Unit193, I wonder if it is a cookie thing?
<mikodo> Unit193, Anyways, I am screwed for that
<Unit193> Another option would be to try another browser, but Firefox v25 and xombrero work for me.  No big deal really.
<mikodo> Unit193, Thanks. I will play around See ya!
<Unit193> Adios, have a goo test.
<Unit193> +d
<mikodo> lol
<pleia2> goo tests
<mikodo> Sounds like my wife
<pleia2> I have a maid come in for that
<Unit193> Testing world of goo? :P
<pleia2> all goo handling
<mikodo> Unit193, Yep I allowed all cookies for FF 23 and it is allowing me to login to http://pad.ubuntu.com/  
<mikodo> I am soooo tired of the problems with SSO. I can log into Ubuntu One, Launchpad and Ubuntu Forums. But *now* I cannot login in to http://pad.ubuntu.com/openid/+login  EVEN with FF cookies allowed. This is not a request but a bitch. Sorry to waste your time.
<pleia2> mikodo: are you part of the etherpad team?
<mikodo> NO
<pleia2> mikodo: what's your lp id?
<mikodo> Sorry for caps
<mikodo> Do you mean my email address to lP
<pleia2> no, the part in the url after the ~
<pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~lyz
<pleia2> mine is "lyz"
<mikodo> Alright, please give me a minute to see what that might be
<pleia2> anyway, this problem has nothing to do with SSO, the etherpad just gets attacked+spammed so you need to be part of the etherpad team to use it, I can add people, you just need to ask :)
<mikodo> pleia2, Sorry, to take so long to find what you were asking for! It is drum-roll please **  ~mike-odonnell-r  ** Not very frigin original is it?
<pleia2> mikodo: done
<mikodo> pleia2, Thanks pal!
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/267841
<elfy> logging into this machine after I'd logged into the mir instance
<Unit193> elfy: Nice background.
<elfy> yea - lovely :p
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> that's teh broken
<elfy> a bit ... 
<elfy> at least it didn't have any passwords in it :p
<elfy> Unit193: you seeing the same with seeding with me 2:1 32:64bit
<Unit193> 14 all, 11G for both.
<elfy> mind you I've been offline 
<elfy> 7Gb in total 
<Unit193> Sure, it's still not a lot, things be dieing down.
<elfy> for these at least - 106Gb all told
<elfy> so yea - much quieter now 
<Unit193> 108.50 GiB httpd traffic since Sunday.
<cub> Unit193, yeah since Jono's blog post yesterday people might do the install procedure there on an existing Saucy. I ran a test on Ubuntu Studio today so...
<Unit193> cub: Sure, any different?
<cub> Yes, the login screen was flashing and it traced my cursor movement with a nice blue colour. But once logged in everything worked just as with the Xubuntu 0.0.9 version
<cub> I didn't update that on the Etherpad since it was not the Xubuntu iso, but on the wiki page instead
<elfy> I've had the same flashing greeter screen with the saucy+mir bits 
<mikodo> Well I installed XMir 13.10, installed grub to my primary install, and sudo update-grub finds 13.10 on the partition I installed it to, but on the boot-menu, it isn't listed. hmm... So, I can't boot into it.
<mikodo> I am going to try booting into the other installs, to see if they all work. Bye.
<mikodo> Alright, I found Xubuntu XMir 13.10 at Linux 3.11.0-1-generic x86_64 in the grup menu, which surprised me to find it there. So I have it running.
<mikodo> *grub-menu
<knome> forestpiskie, would that list be similar to what is in the iso tracker?
<knome> forestpiskie, i don't want to duplicate any work, and it sounds like we have already gathered the bugs...
<mikodo> How do I compare  glxgears XMir to Xorg?
<knome> i'd say simply compare the FPS
<mikodo> knome, Thanks. I don't know what that is
<mikodo> FPS to google we go
<knome> mikodo, run glxgears from terminal and it'll output you the frames per second rates
<knome> the bigger the number, the better
<knome> that's a very simple way to compare graphics performance
<mikodo> knome, I can do that. Thanks.
<knome> cheers
<knome> mikodo, do you have access to the pad where we're collection information?
<knome> mikodo, or, are you in the ubuntu-etherpad LP group
<mikodo> knome, Unit193 gave me access Thanks
<knome> okay, goodie
<Unit193> (Strictly speaking, ple added him to the group. :P )
<mikodo> oops, sorry, that is right.
<knome> well i knew it couldn't be Unit193!
<knome> but i don't mind. i don't have the permissions myself to add people either, but i'm good at poking other people and making them do it.
<mikodo> knome, obviously, I didn't. say anyone having trouble with their sudo passowords, mine works sometimes, other times, just won't
<knome> yeah, i've had those too, but the PEBKAC
<mikodo> knome, Good misery likes company
<knome> i once had a streak of like 7 times when i failed
<mikodo> I am doing all the downloads now, fingers crossed!
<knome> good luck
<mikodo> *updates
<Unit193> knome: Make it fun, enable insults.
<mikodo> Alright, guys. I have my computer specs &  glxgears (twice posted, damn) up on http://pad.ubuntu.com/      Is there any other commands I can run to post, that would be of service to the devs?
<Unit193> knome: ^?
<mikodo> Oh, and would a reboot help with not being able to use my sudo password?
<knome> mikodo, if you have time, check out packages.qa.ubuntu.com and see the xubuntu testcases :)
<mikodo> knome, Thx.
<knome> no problem - than *you*
<bluesabre> micahg: largely the merge was, replace everything with debian version except for the debian folder
<mikodo> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/ starts tomorrow right?
<knome> mikodo, it's an always ongoing effort
<mikodo> Oh, I see that thanks
<Unit193> Hah, by the standards of http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/298/builds/51476/testcases/1572/results nope to all. ;P
<knome> :P
<Elendorial> Hello
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> (By "all", I mean all my tests.)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-17
<mikodo> Well, I am not liking this 13.04 XMir Xubuntu install. It stopped letting me use my sudo password completely, now. I earlier set the root password. That is now acting up, but < su -l >  still works. I am opening gksu apps with that. but it is less than ideal for security, I guess. I don't think this install is long for this world, except to maybe leave it be and if we use it after Aug22/13, well maybe some updates might fix more 
<mikodo> things.
<mikodo> Sorry *13.10 Xubuntu Xmir install
<mikodo> What does this mean? < Gtk-WARNING **: GtkNotebook 0xba94b0 is mapped but visible child GtkLabel 0xc2d1a0 is not mapped >
<mikodo> Seems every time I open an app with su -l, I get that warning, or another like it.
<mikodo> Like this:  (synaptic:3203): Gtk-WARNING **: GtkNotebook 0xba94b0 is mapped but visible child GtkLabel 0xc2d1a0 is not mapped
<Unit193> Looks like theme warnings to me, safe to ignore.  Sounds like you're having issues unrelated to XMir, though.
<mikodo> Unit193, Thanks for the advice. You're right. It isn't playing nicely with my passwords
<knome> mikodo, the usual starting point is "do not use the root account" :)
<mikodo> knome, Yay, I guess. I am going to add one more thing about the warnings I am getting to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir and then probably uninstall. You've been great! Thanks.
<knome> no problem :)
<elfy> knome: no it's not - it's just xubuntu bugs - the only lists I can find on the tracker is general
<elendorial> hi
<elfy> hi elendorial 
<elendorial> any idea how i can aid with xubuntu dev?
<elfy> well - that's a 'how long's a piece of string' question :)
<elfy> it depends on what you can do :)
<elfy> elendorial: have you seen the wiki page?
<elendorial> i suppose coding, i'm an computer enginner student so i suppose that's relevant
<elendorial> yes i've taken a look
<elfy> ok - well I'd say coding needs people - but I can't say more than that - as I can't code 
<elfy> but we are a small team so most of us help with things we can as they turn up 
<elendorial> i'll take a look at the wiki again, and if i have any questions i'll get back to you
<elfy> best thing is to hang around in here talking to people as they turn up to be honest
<elendorial> ok
<elfy> elendorial: knome will be able to give you a more specific answer
<elendorial> ok, i'll ask him
<elendorial> thnx!
<elfy> welcome
<knome> elendorial, i'm on this channel as well, so... :)
<elendorial> a ok
<knome> elendorial, i would imagine the bugs are tagged xubuntu, qa-tracker
<elendorial> well elfy told me i should talk to you
<knome> err, elfy 
<knome> elfy, let's look at that together today if you have time
<elfy> knome: okey doke - I'm sort of about most of the day 
<knome> elfy, ok, give me anything between 15-60 minutes and i'll ping you again :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> elendorial, so, you would like to help with development. are you familiar with debian packaging? which programming languages?
<knome> elendorial, generally, the best way to start is to fix bugs that scratch your own itch
<elendorial> no i'm not familiar with debian packaging, i'm pretty much new to linux, however i've programmed in c,c++,java,matlab and cuda
<knome> well the good news is that xfce is built with c
<knome> xfce being the desktop environment we use
<elendorial> yes i know
<knome> so a good starting point could be fixing some xfce bugs
<ochosi> hey elendorial 
<knome> (if possible, upstream)
<ochosi> yeah, that's indeed a good start
<ochosi> there are a few projects in xfce-upstream that some folks from xubuntu are involved in
<ochosi> like parole
<ochosi> bluesabre and me are maintaining that
<knome> we're quite late in the cycle re: any new features, but bugfixes you can still get in
<ochosi> but generally speaking knome is right, find the app or service that you'd like to improve and then start looking at bugs
<ochosi> you can also check with us first if you want and we can tell you about our xp with the maintainers/devs of that app
<elendorial> xfce is at version 4.10 now, right?
<ochosi> yup
<elendorial> ok, so i suppose i should start reading about xfce
<elendorial> :P
<ochosi> mostly you'll need gtk and c for xfce
<ochosi> (language-wise)
<ochosi> gotta go now
<ochosi> elendorial: feel free to ping me, i always read the backlog (if you need more pointers)
<elendorial> ok, thanks!
<ochosi> bluesabre: i haven't gotten the gtk3 plugins to work in the gtk2 panel yet
<ochosi> bluesabre: most likely a library linkage problem, i'd say. but i need to get a hold of andrzejr first and ask him
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you wanna try yourself, get the andrzjer/wrapper3 branch and the indicator-plugin1.0 (both from git) and install them, then also add a line to the indicator-plugin's desktop-file to enable gtk3
<ochosi> bluesabre: X-XFCE-Gtk3=TRUE (i think, better check again in git to be sure)
<knome> elfy, is this what you're looking for: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=%22InstallationMedia%3A+Xubuntu%22&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug
<knome> huh
<knome> http://tinyurl.com/xubuntu-iso-bug
<knome> elfy, that searches anything that has the "iso-testing" tag and "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu" in the description
<knome> elfy, you could also filter that with the release tag, eg. saucy
<knome> that would be: http://tinyurl.com/xubuntu-iso-bug-saucy
<elfy> that's close to what I got manuall
<elfy> y
<knome> is something missing then?
<knome> maybe something that's first reported on ubuntu, then added to one of the xubuntu tests?
<knome> i'd say those would generally be to less interest to us, since it's not xubuntu specific, or at least somebody has "had" it in other ISOs
<knome> also see what i just asked from stgraber in #ubuntu-quality 
<elfy> knome: I agree with we only want xubuntu specific stuff 
<elfy> and with the question in -quality :)
<knome> some bugs first reported with other ISOs could be high importance for us (especially if those other flavors wouldn't be interested in fixing such bugs)
<elfy> at which point you're back to manually sorting through things
<knome> well, kind of
<knome> but i don't think that's a huge problem
<knome> those bugs are going to be rare, and they're going to be something we will be aware of
<knome> eg. breaks all xubuntu installations, has broken one lubuntu installation :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> and i would also consider the manual effort a waste of time if we can get this far with automatic filtering
<knome> if we need to track any other bug than those in that list, just link it to a status-tracker blueprint 
<elfy> the other part of the issue micah and I were talking about still needs to be addressed - looking for what he wanted
<knome> and that is?
<elfy> <micahg-work> 5 columns: issue, bug # (optional), autopilot, autopkgtest, person responsible
<knome> hmh
<elfy> what we were looking at was what people were seeing during install and what could be looked at for automatic testing
<knome> micahg, care to elaborate with that? ^
<knome> i'm wondering if there was a way to half-automate that
<knome> if not else, we could do the tracking in a LP blueprint, so the statuses would be autoupdated
<knome> or as much auto as updating a bug status in LP is - you just wouldn't need to do that on the wiki as well
<elfy> yea - though micahg was looking at having something that spanned releases
<knome> a blueprint can do that
<knome> it's not necessary to tie that to the status, or if we want to, we can still always just link it under the new umbrella blueprint
<elfy> yep
<elfy> obviously I'm happy to do it whichever way is easiest - I just hate trying to search for anything on LP 
<knome> heh
<knome> just ask someone else for the LP-fu ;)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> knome: so how are you getting it for saucy?
<knome> elfy, go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?advanced=1
<elfy> done that and got "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu"
<knome> elfy, search terms are: "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu" (with the quotes)
<knome> then tags are
<knome> iso-testing saucy
<knome> and check "All"
<knome> and then search
<elfy> aaah - tags :p
<knome> yup
<knome> http://tinyurl.com/xubuntu-iso-bug-saucy
<knome> if you need a short url
<elfy> no - that's fine - just needed a point to the fu :D
<elfy> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<elfy> tbh in 7 years of fiddling about with LP - IU had never noticed the advanced search thing lol
<elfy> on the other hand I'd never really needed to use it before 6 months ago 
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, it's kind of hidden, but really powerful..
<elfy> yep
<elfy> ok - so aas you say, a blueprint perhaps to do the remainder - might be best to talk with micahg and get to what works for all of us
<knome> definitely
<knome> i don't mind if you want to track it manually, but i'd say there would be other ways that are more automated, an in turn also help with tracking the process generally better
<elfy> in the meantime - I'm trying to use a vb to write the greeter testcase without logging in and losing access to half of it when I logout
<knome> a wikipage is always an island
<knome> vb, visual basic?
<knome> ;)
<knome> oh, virtualbox
<elfy> I don't 'want' to do it manually - I'd rather do it automatically - this seesm to be the way
<knome> you could use your shell from pleia2 as well :)
<elfy> yea ;) 
<elfy> shell? 
<knome> the thing you are logging into when you are connecting to forestpiskie 
<knome> it's a debian system iirc
<elfy> yea I know what it is - not seeing how that can help me 
<elfy> oic 
<knome> before you enter screen, just type "nano filename" ;)
<elfy> nah - I can write the logged out bit before logging in - then login to get the other little bits:)
<knome> hehe
<knome> bbl
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I'm away this afternoon now - back tomorrow 
<lderan> knome, this right http://lderan.co.uk/ringtail.png ? :P
<elfy> ochosi: I've done the greeter testcase - from memory - affected by the bug that stops it all working if I login 
<elfy> just waiting for approval etc
<elfy> knome: when you are back - can we deal with these archived testcases of our's? 
<Noskcaj> I'm about to make a sync bug for desktop-profiles. Is someone able to sync it?
<Noskcaj> bug 1213452
<ubottu> bug 1213452 in desktop-profiles (Ubuntu) "Sync desktop-profiles 1.4.16 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213452
<knome> lderan, looks great. now we just need to decide what we want for xubuntu, then MP the branch and announce the usage.
<lderan> cool :)
<knome> i'll probably boot up my desktop machine in a bit, can work a bit better there
<knome> lderan, so, when you're ready, please push to a branch and do a MP
<lderan> will do
<lderan> its been pushed to my own branch already
<knome> that'll do fine as well
<lderan> shall i revert the changes to the welcome page in the slideshow for the xubuntu set or leave them as an example?
<knome> umm,
<knome> we modified that part a bit
<knome> i suppose there will be a conflict anyway....
<lderan> aye
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-18
<lderan> knome, well the merge has been proposed :)
<bluesabre> micahg, would you like to approve this?  haven't seen mr_pouit in a little while
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-gtk-greeter-updates/+merge/177959
<knome> lderan, seriously, what?!
<knome> lderan, diff is 256809 lines...
<knome> lderan, any possibility you could do bzr merge lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu with your branch and repropose? ;)
<knome> that's insane...
<lderan> sure
<knome> bluesabre, you around?
<lderan> not sure what happened there
<knome> lderan, thanks :)
<knome> yeah, me neither
<bluesabre> knome: o/
<knome> bluesabre, what's the real package/name for our lightdm greeter
<knome> it isn't really "xubuntu greeter", right?
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter
<knome> is there a non-technical name?
<knome> "LightDM GTK Greeter" ? :)
<bluesabre> LightDM GTK+ Greeter
<knome> thansk
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<knome> thanks too
<knome> i was thinking that's it, but wanted to make sure
<bluesabre> sure thing
<knome> one more question - who else is using the greeter?
<bluesabre> lubuntu
<knome> okay
<knome> do you know if they have several sessions, or just lubuntu?
<bluesabre> I think they just have one session
<bluesabre> I can check later though
<knome> okay
<knome> i'll try to make the greeter testcase flavor-agnostic
<bluesabre> personally, I would love to get rid of our "Xfce Session" since it breaks things
<knome> i wouldn't mind that, but i can see why some people appreciate it
<knome> what the...
<bluesabre> bananas
<knome> some weirdo stuff going on in here.
<lderan> knome, mmm my commit number is 69 yet yours is 571, is that why that happened? 
<knome> lderan, heh, that sounds like a fair reason
<lderan> lol
<knome> how did you manage to pull revision that old?
<knome> yeah, it does make sense because it looked like a lot of the code had been moved around...
<lderan> i ran bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu to get it
<knome> weird
<lderan> ah think i wasn't in trunk
<lderan> ah ha now a sane version number 569
<knome> hehe
<lderan> bah "bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information."
<lderan> easier to make a new branch on ~lderan/ or is there an easy way to force it?
<knome> lp merge lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<lderan> Nothing to do.
<knome> weird
<knome> ehh, bzr merge sure heh
<knome> but
<lderan> aye :P
<knome> maybe you need to chagne the subbranch of whatever that's called in bzr..
<knome> bzr switch trunk ?
<lderan> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/lderan/trunk/".
<knome> heh
<knome> weirdo
<knome> that's really weird
<knome> are you on an ancient revision if you do a re-pull?
<lderan> nah, thats how i got the newer version number.
<lderan> can't push to my /test branch now tho
<knome> of course, because *they* are diverged ;)
<lderan> :P
<Unit193> Go to LP, delete.
<lderan> will that mess with the linked bug?
<knome> lderan, yes, but we can re-link.
<lderan> okay :)
<lderan> okay done and repushed to /test
<knome> did you repropose too?
<lderan> shall do so now
<knome> ta
<lderan> done
<knome> will check the branch now
<lderan> cool :)
<knome> and does that work without extra libs installed?
<knome> i think we need a reviewer that can do python ;)
<lderan> no extra libs :)
<lderan> think the only extra python include is os, as far as I know that is a default one.
<lderan> and csv
<knome> lderan, one more request:
<lderan> request away
<knome> lderan, can you modify the xubuntu welcome slide to only have the version id (as is in the main branch), and add a "usage" in the description
<lderan> sure 
<knome> if this gets approved, we should get in touch with other flavor teams and possibly dylan to make sure we update every slideshow to use these
<lderan> added the usage to the MP description :P
<knome> ta
<lderan> hopefully next time will go more smoothly, will double check version numbers :P
<knome> hehe
<knome> no problem ;)
<knome> i just had to seek for the way to link the bug to the branch some time
<knome> had to go to the bug and link to the branch from there, couldn't link a bug to a branch...
<knome> lderan, see your merge proposal, it has comments ;)
<lderan> ooo
<lderan> that is a quick thing to change :P
<knome> not the fallback though
<knome> ah, right
<lderan> mmm a fallback
<lderan> shall implement Dylans suggest tomorrow :P
<lderan> suggestion*
<knome> nice, thanks :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-12
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for fixing the accountsservice/xfdesktop bug!
<ochosi> bluesabre: idea: what about leaving light-locker-settings as is and making a xubuntu-patch for xfpm instead that adds a locking-tab for light-locker?
<ochosi> (in the 1.6 release we could merge this upstream, but since debian wants a stable xfpm release from us asap i don't think we can implement that before the release)
<bluesabre> ochosi: would lls then be obsolete?
<ochosi> bluesabre: no, not for other DEs
<bluesabre> ok, gotcha
<ochosi> thing is, with xfpm handling ll, we could get rid of the desktop file manipulation
<ochosi> (assuming we'll have a release of the dbus interface soon, which i hope)
<bluesabre> that would be cool
<bluesabre> dbus makes everything better
<ochosi> yeah, in this case it does
<ochosi> thing is we need some sort of daemon to apply the dbus settings at session start
<ochosi> and i thought xfpm would be a good place to handle that
<bluesabre> not necessarily
<bluesabre> have a minimal gsettings config for light-locker
<bluesabre> it keeps the last defined settings
<bluesabre> or, there are settings that apply to current session, and permanent
<bluesabre> maybe
<ochosi> hm, how do the gsettings get loaded at startup?
<bluesabre> same as any other app?
 * ochosi is gsettings-ignorant
<ochosi> so you're saying we can get rid of the desktop file even with lls?
<bluesabre> I don't see why not
<ochosi> ah good
<ochosi> in that case let's stick to lls and improve it
<ochosi> at least for this release
<ochosi> seems better than patching xfpm
<bluesabre> ok, just to make sure I'm not confused here
<ochosi> we can always implement the lockscreen handling in later xfpm releases
<bluesabre> the gsettings would be for light-locker itself
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> and that could actually be a second interface of sorts, since it can update its policy when settings are modified
<ochosi> hm?
<ochosi> you mean gsettings-editor could be a second interface?
<bluesabre> in a way
<bluesabre> nvm
<ochosi> errr? :)
<bluesabre> with gsettings, you wouldn't need an external app starting light-locker in a specific way, or sending dbus commands at startup
<bluesabre> it would start up with preferred settings
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> that sounds way better
<brainwash> bluesabre: can you also mark https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10882 as invalid?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10882 in Workspace Switcher "On every workspace switch accounts-daemon rewrites /var/lib/AccountsService/users/xxx file" [Major,New]
<brainwash> or ochosi ^
<brainwash> ali1234: is bug 1243354 also related to our dbus problem (meta report)?
<ubottu> bug 1243354 in xfce4-terminal "Xfce4-terminal cannot run on more than one X screen at a time" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243354
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that happens because when you run xfce4-terminal it listens on dbus, then if you open a new window it opens it from the same process
<ali1234> so if you run another copy on another x screen, it says on dbus "hey please open a new indow"
<ali1234> and then the original process opens a new window on the orignal x screen, because that is all it can do
<ali1234> the original process has no access to the other screen
<brainwash> ah, thanks for the explanation :)
<ochosi> brainwash: done
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> np, thanks for pointing that one out
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-13
<ochosi> hey everyone
<ochosi> just to inform you guys (again), i won't be able to make the meeting tomorrow
<ochosi> i added two items to the agenda, both are roadmap-related
<ochosi> knome: maybe you can help me set up the status.ubuntu page for 14.10 (if it's not too late for that now)
<ochosi> anyway, i won't be around much the next two days, but return sometime on saturday
<ochosi> elfy, knome: i saw some mentions of my name in the CC meeting, anything you wanna update me on specifically?
<elfy> ochosi: not that I'm aware of - was just a general thing with the CC
<ochosi> okeydokey
<rowboatn1ck> How come the bottom panel is gone? 
<elfy> that's what was decided 
<rowboatn1ck> Is it decided for this cycle?
<elfy> I see no reason for it to come back
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
<rowboatn1ck> It's very useful to have it, quick launch really, also it looks great, + its painful to create it yourself :D
<elfy> it was part of that
<elfy> bbl
<rowboatn1ck> yeah it makes sense, technically. But the desktop feels naked
<rowboatn1ck> Maybe a toggle switch for automatically creating it could be included? 
<ochosi> rowboatn1ck: i'd say that's not realistic, at least not for 14.10
<ochosi> there is a roadmap item for lderan to work on a graphical frontend for panel-switch, a python app that allows to save/backup panel layouts
<rowboatn1ck> oh okay
<rowboatn1ck> that would be neat
<ochosi> if that gets done (no idea what the status on this is, lderan?) we can ship it as a simple way of switching panel layouts
<ochosi> so we could also ship a few templates by default, including the pre-14.04 layouts
<ochosi> if you feel comfortable in python, feel free to work on the UI yourself ;)
<ochosi> (i think i even created mockups for it()
<knome> ochosi, send amail to the CC mail list introducing yourself and telling you're the new XPL.
<knome> ochosi, i can help with the status stuff later today or tomorrow
<ochosi> knome: won't be around much until saturday unfortunately
<knome> ochosi, when are you leaving? i just came back home myself, and we're about to leave for the evening
<knome> bbl.. ->
<ochosi> knome: i'm already on the train, might have a minute or two tomorrow or very late tonight
<ochosi> but it's not really planable i'm afraid
<sergio-br2> hi
<sergio-br2> thunar is crashing sometimes, when i use Alt + Up Arrow
<sergio-br2> in trusty
<sergio-br2> i don't know if it happens because I use more than 2 tabs...
<sergio-br2> it's hard to reproduce
<sergio-br2> someone else has the same problem?
<knome> ochosi, let's see what happens... i'm online here and there myself, maybe we'll hit the same spot.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-14
<Unit193> ochosi: FF the 21st, I've got a terrible memory and I don't see it on trello or blueprints, xfce4-soundmenu-plugin/libmpris2 and xfdash going into 14.10 official?
<ochosi> Unit193: nah, xfdash can remain in extras for now, same with xfce4-soundmenu
<ochosi> i think the latter still needs a bit of work
<ochosi> then we can talk about including it by default
<ochosi> (as long as we don't include it by default i think the PPA is an ok place)
<ochosi> btw, google forms is a good idea for managing wallpaper submissions: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/16R0-IF8m8h5iUad067lf2SNi_v3qkluLe_fcR5f6jsY/viewform
<ochosi> knome: that takes away most of the maintenance load of the wiki ^
<Unit193> ochosi: I see, thanks.
<elfy> mmm bluesabre re parole - so that odd situation I had where jogging forward in a audio file has changed - jogging forward now changes to the next track
<elfy> tried to record what's going on with it - got a bug with record my desktop :p
 * pleia2 aims for 1 hr meeting
<pleia2> cuz lunch plans!
<Unit193> Food is very important.
<pleia2> or, you know, less :)
<pleia2> anyway, meeting in a half hour
 * pleia2 back2work until then
<elfy> bluesabre: bug 1356979 attached screencast to it - eventually
<ubottu> bug 1356979 in parole (Ubuntu) "Fast forward/jog during a track changes to next playlist track" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1356979
<pleia2> o/
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 14 17:59:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pleia2> ok, who do we have here?
<skellat> o/
<elfy> hi
<pleia2> #topic Open action items
<pleia2> "marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media" that didn't get done :) will re-action
<pleia2> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<meetingology> ACTION: marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<pleia2> doesn't look like bluesabre, knome or ochosi are around to update on their items
<pleia2> #chair elfy Unit193 
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 elfy pleia2
<pleia2> so do we just reaction all their stuff?
<elfy> I guess so pleia2 
<skellat> No
<Unit193> That's how it used to go, yeah.
<pleia2> clear as mud
<pleia2> will reaction so we can follow up at next meeting
<elfy> well I can see no reason why not
<pleia2> #action bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki
<pleia2> #action bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
<pleia2> #action bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
<pleia2> #action knome to check docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to check docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu
<pleia2> that's good, ochosi's item was mailing the list about xchat and that was done :)
<pleia2> #topic Team updates
<pleia2> ok, what are we up to? :)
<Unit193> bluesabre enabled clutter in parole, but it's not been set the default yet.
<pleia2> I don't really have any updates from web or marketing, so no #info from me
<elfy> #info QA is moribund still
<skellat> #info skellat has been engaged in backport requests and sync requests
<elfy> # Beta 1 in 2 weeks time - will call for testing, depending on response will reflect on whether to bother with Final Beta
<pleia2> anything else?
<elfy> not from me
<Unit193> #info bluesabre enabled clutter in parole, but it's not been set xubuntu-default-settings yet.
<pleia2> #info Beta 1 in 2 weeks time - will call for testing, depending on response will reflect on whether to bother with Final Beta
<pleia2> thanks elfy 
<skellat> Do we want any items to come up for Global Jam to be worked on/played with?  I had seen there was a meeting CCT held earlier today but I didn't catch all they went into.
<elfy> oops sorry pleia2 :)
<pleia2> docs and testing are really the only things we can do for Jam stuff
<pleia2> but I'm not participating in UGJ this time around (will be traveling)
<skellat> Can anybody identify specifics on our end and relate them to apparently mhall119 and/or dholbach?
<skellat> That is to say, low-hanging fruit sorts of opportunities that would help us move forward
<elfy> apparently not 
<pleia2> skellat: maybe mail the list to see if anyone is interested in that?
<skellat> I'll take an action item for that
<pleia2> #action skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam
<pleia2> thanks skellat 
<pleia2> #topic Announcements
<pleia2> anything?
<elfy> nope
<skellat> I've got nothing
<Unit193> Feature freeze?
<Unit193> Did we announce the calendar page with the trello and Xubuntu calendars?
<elfy> I saw it somewhere Unit193 
<GridCube> i think that was announced in the mailing list a few weeks ago
<pleia2> debian import freeze has happened, feature freeze comes up on the 21st
<Unit193> OK, terrible memory and all. :(
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> #info Debian import freeze is in effect
<Unit193> #info Feature freeze is coming up on the 21st.
<pleia2> #topic Discussion
<pleia2> #subtopic Gksu/do
<pleia2> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-July/010287.html
<mhall119> skellat: we need to update the UGJ wikipages first, then we'll have a place for you to put specific activities that would contribute to Xubuntu
 * mhall119 apologies for coming in late
<GridCube> Unit193, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-July/010321.html
<pleia2> any gksu/do things?
<elfy> pleia2: is that one not kind of dependent on knome's doc stuff?
<Unit193> GridCube: Yep, thanks.  It's the memory again. :(
<pleia2> elfy: perhaps!
<GridCube> :)
<skellat> mhall119: We still need to do harvesting on the Xubuntu side first.  You've got time.
<elfy> I'd +1 returning to gksu tbh - not part of the discussion re removing it in the first place, but I really don't see why we should be the only falvour without gksu 
<elfy> hi mhall119 :)
 * pleia2 nods
<skellat> elfy: The discussion in last meeting was that it was a tremendous hack and that we need to move towards getting pkexec-related compatabilities set up.
<Unit193> pkexec is "nice" for things that support it and more secure, but really not so useful everywhere else.  I'd be in favor of using pkexec where we can, but gksu everywhere else and seeding it.
<GridCube> who would do that
<elfy> skellat: maybe so - but still there are huge bunches of people wandering around doing things for ubuntu
<elfy> and pkexec smacks of the attitude with ibus - fine for us, sorry about you
<elfy> Unit193: +1
<pleia2> Unit193: +1
<pleia2> did we end up with volunteers to pkexec things?
<skellat> elfy: micahg wanted to drop it as catfish was one of the last things that needed it as a dependency which it doesn't anymore.  ochosi was advised by mainline security that gksu has security issues.
<pleia2> boo security
<elfy> pleia2: I had already got 3 here - put them on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec
<elfy> skellat: even so - where does that put everyone else - and I repeat - it is US and Studio that don't seed gksu
<elfy> and I don't see the sky falling in on anyone else
<pleia2> elfy: oh good
<skellat> elfy: That will require further study to see where it puts us in the overall realm of who is using gksu & who isn't
<elfy> skellat: Ubuntu, Studio and Xubuntu don't have gksu
<elfy> knee jerk reaction to it whenever it was 
<skellat> I was thinking outside the Ubuntu realm
<elfy> I've no interest in that
<Unit193> #rank name                            inst  vote   old recent no-files (maintainer)
<Unit193> 378   gksu                           2554519 23075 2528873  1693   878 (Gustavo Noronha Silva)     
<skellat> The lurking issue of systemd has to be remembered which can and does inform what we do across the Ubuntu flavors even when we're not the ones directly deciding
<elfy> that'll be lurking for sometime I would think
<Unit193> Yep.
<pleia2> yeah
<Unit193> Also, not sure what systemd has to do with gksu directly.
<elfy> so - I'd say postpone this till next meeting
<pleia2> elfy: wfm
<pleia2> #subtopic Discuss possible support of Xfce's bug bounty programme
<pleia2> I think this was also agreed, yay
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to work on drafting bounty/donation page for Xfce's bug bounty programme on xubuntu.org
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to work on drafting bounty/donation page for Xfce's bug bounty programme on xubuntu.org
<pleia2> #subtopic Make the Trello board publicly readable
<pleia2> elfy: know anything about this one?
<elfy> I've no issue with that - easily done, regardless of readability - only people ON the board can post afaik
<pleia2> seems logical
<pleia2> anyone have objections?
<elfy> not me 
<elfy> I'd vote perhaps - then move it to m/l - give it a week
<skellat> Go for it especially after the static bluesabre got from DMB
<pleia2> #subtopic Check whether the Blueprints and Trello board are in sync
<pleia2> this one just sounds like just an action item someone should take
<elfy> I can do that pleia2 
<pleia2> #action elfy to check whether the Blueprints and Trello board are in sync
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to check whether the Blueprints and Trello board are in sync
<pleia2> elfy: thank you
<elfy> but what about the readability thing :)
<elfy> yay or nay or move to m/l
<pleia2> elfy: yay
<pleia2> yea?
<pleia2> do eet
<elfy> :)
<elfy> done
<pleia2> #done elfy made Trello board publicly readable
<elfy> get confirmation from someone lurking like krytarik 
<elfy> https://trello.com/b/P9r6ICd0/xubuntu-team
<pleia2> krytarik: can you see the board?
<Unit193> Works.
<knome> i'm here!
<skellat> Heck, I can even see it when I'm not logged into trello so it is world readable
<Unit193> knome: Welcome.
<elfy> hi knome 
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> #subtopic Other Business (and knome things)
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> ok, anything else?
<knome> gee, thanks :P
<pleia2> heheh
<Unit193> Perhaps document better how Xubuntu runs the meetings?
<pleia2> am I doing that badly? :)
<elfy> pleia2: no but I suspect Unit193 know's he's up soon :p
<Unit193> < pleia2> clear as mud  that kind of gave a hint.
<pleia2> oh yeah
<pleia2> I can draft up instructions and ask people to fix them
<GridCube> this is the first meeting im able to attend in about a year probably :(
<knome> pleia2, be in touch with me on that.
 * skellat references the Debian-side bugs list for gksu for the purpose of consideration for discussion: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=gksu
<pleia2> knome: will do
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft up meeting chair instructions and seek feedback
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to draft up meeting chair instructions and seek feedback
<pleia2> skellat: thanks for the link
<pleia2> #info Debian-side bugs list for gksu for the purpose of consideration for discussion: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=gksu
<pleia2> GridCube: in that case, have anything you wish to discuss? :)
<GridCube> as a side effect of not being able to properly know how i can contribute for not joining conversations, no, though i liked the fact that some of the questions where forwarded to the mailing list where i could add my two cents
<elfy> GridCube: I'd agree that's been a good thing
<knome> we could start sending a mail that notifies about the meeting minutes being up
<Unit193> Or, send the meeting minutes like several other teams do.
<pleia2> maybe we add that to chair tasks
<knome> so the meeting results would get more exposure to public, and probably open some discussion
<GridCube> talking about that questions, the droping of xchat, i understand that we already droped it, but i would like that then we add a link on whishkers menu called "online help" that sends people to the web client for our channel on the main page
<knome> not all of the issues are something we want/need to discuss on the mailing list
<GridCube> knome, no, i understand
<Unit193> Right, and I'd prefer not.
<knome> Unit193, prefer not what?
<Unit193> Every discussion happing on the ML, seems overkill.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> GridCube, what we are doing is making an experiment on how people react on xchat being removed
<elfy> then that goes against what we decided - if it's a meeting discussion it should go to m/l for those not able to be here
<knome> GridCube, if we decide it's the right way, we can then discuss if we want a menu item
<knome> elfy, i was referring to mostly "for information" items :)
<elfy> ok
<GridCube> knome, i see. i don't agree but i understand.
<knome> besides, i'm probably thinking a bit differently than you;
<pleia2> well, I think meeting minutes being sent to the list should be more of a FYI thing, we still want threads started for important discussions
<knome> not ALL of the things we discuss in the meeting *must* be a meeting/team discussion
<pleia2> and I think just a link in an email, like: we had a meeting, read about it here:
<elfy> pleia2: wfm
<GridCube> sure, im not asking to move the meetings to the mailing list
<knome> it's just that the meeting is a good forum to discuss things and get it archived somewhat reasonably to logs that are much more accessible than irclogs.ubuntu.com ;)
<GridCube> i just liked that some question where forwarded there where i could participate
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-August/038428.html - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-August/038422.html
<pleia2> GridCube: nods
<pleia2> we should keep doing that, it's good, we usually get feedback
<knome> GridCube, definitely. that's more related to voting than meetings itself.
<GridCube> mmhm
<knome> extending the voting to the mailing list we can guarantee to either 1) get a quorum or 2) give enough time for everybody to be able to vote
<knome> (even if technical quorum isn't met)
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that being said...
<knome> the strategy document doesn't talk about "expiring" from -team in vain
<knome> i'm not saying there's anybody specific who shouldn't be part of the team, but please keep it in mind and judge with your own conscience whether you think you are warranted the membership
<knome> (and thus, a vote in every vote, and making the quorum harder to reach in numbers)
<knome> we don't want to kick anybody out, but it's the best for all to have an up-to-date membership list :)
<elfy> indeed - totally agree with that
<knome> and that said...
<knome> we're happy to have old contributors back
<knome> and they'll probably gain their membership faster since we already know them..
<pleia2> knome: maybe an agenda item for next meeting?
<GridCube> knome, i understand
<knome> pleia2, of what? :)
<pleia2> expiring team
<knome> well, sure, though it should be an ongoing item ;)
<pleia2> ah ok
<knome> so maybe not
<pleia2> ok, anything else?
<elfy> I'm good pleia2 
<GridCube> not from me
<knome> nope
<skellat> Adjournment sounds great
<pleia2> #topic Schedule next meeting
<elfy> ochosi
<pleia2> I'm on there twice, so I forgets :)
<pleia2> is it ochosi up next?
 * knome checks
<elfy> yea - twice in a row :)
<knome> yeah, i believe so ;)
<pleia2> #action ochosi to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to schedule next meeting
<elfy> then it's the Debian Liason's turn ... 
<pleia2> I'll do meeting minute stuff after lunch
<pleia2> thanks all
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 14 18:55:47 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-08-14-17.59.moin.txt
 * pleia2 out2lunch
<elfy> thanks pleia2 :)
<Unit193> We made it out!
<Unit193> Thanks.
<knome> pleia2, bon appetit!
<Unit193> knome: Might want to get with cyphermox and see if NM .10 is landing for utopic as it'll need Xubuntu docs update if so.
<knome> aha?
<Unit193> The networking section has `nm-tool`, which is gone in .10.
<knome> right
<knome> can you make a trello card out of that?
<Unit193> Uhhh....
<knome> thanks for volunteering ;)
<Unit193> What type of card?
<knome> 14.04 TODO for slickymaster and knome
<cyphermox> Unit193: it will, hopefully
<Unit193> cyphermox: Thanks for the update, and the work on it (looking forward to nmtui!)
<cyphermox> Unit193: still need to file the MIR report for libndp to go with it
<Unit193> Oh bleh, MIRs.
<cyphermox> Unit193: I can point you to the PPA maybe if you want to take a head start, all testing prior to upload is obviously welcome
<Unit193> cyphermox: That might be tempting.
<knome> elfy, ^
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 85 link
<xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/lgQiG8tA/85-update-the-docs-networking-section-for-the-new-networkmanager
<knome> Unit193, cheers
<Unit193> Yeeeep.
<elfy> knome: ?
<knome> elfy, keyword: testing
<Unit193> Now is it tempting enough to make me quit playing with connman/cmst. :D
<elfy> knome: if I had keyword testing - 99% of the time it would be me saying that no-one bothers testing 
<elfy> not that I'm at all cynical 
<knome> elfy, heh. well, it's probably something that we are going to be affected by whether we tested it or not.. so might be better to at least call for testing at some point ;)
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker to see why I'm rather cynical
<knome> i acknowledge the situation..
<elfy> I call for testing - more or less no-one bothers
<knome> if only i had about 24 more hours in a day ;)
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> elfy: ...Do I need to add it?  I am at least running utopic, so while not "testing", I've got it and it's active.  Not sure how much it counts though, since it is me.. :/
<elfy> Unit193: yea - add it please :)
<Unit193> Okay. :(
<elfy> I appear to have a bluetooth indicator 
<knome> *you*?
<knome> is it behind your ear?
<elfy> if only it was - I'd not see it then :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-15
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<Unit193> Yello.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> working on xfce4-power-manager 1.3.1-1ubuntu1
<Unit193> Ah, had issues?
<bluesabre> nah, just like to test before I upload. Pretty clean merge
<Unit193> Good plan.
<Unit193> cyphermox: I officially have no clue what PPA NM is in, so yes if you could point me at it that'd be great.
<Unit193> bluesabre: "Depend on systemd-services" systemd-services is a virtual package in Utopic, FYI.
<elfy> morning 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<JayPi> hi
<elfy> hi Unit193 JayPi 
<JayPi> how are you elfy ?
<elfy> waking up ... 
<JayPi> where are you living?
<JayPi> Here's the night !
<elfy> south of england
<JayPi> ok !
<Unit193> Only almost 3am.
<bluesabre> Unit193: drat, just kept what was already done with the last ubuntu package
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> ochosi: just thought about it, we should include the lxpanel plugin in the build too, right?
<elfy> bluesabre: not sure if you saw that bug I've got with parole - again, but I did manage to screencast it 
<bluesabre> elfy, yeah, saw the bug, going to take a crack at fixing it this weekend
<bluesabre> or pinging you a lot for testing ;)
<elfy> so you can reproduce?
<bluesabre> haven't tried it yet
<elfy> I'll be about till Monday morning :)
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'll definitely get to it before then
<elfy> woot
<bluesabre> ok, going to get ready for work, bbl
<elfy> have fun 
<elfy> if you can :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-16
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> bluesabre: can we look at lls together today or tomorrow or are you super-busy?
<ochosi> just have to whip it in shape a bit before FF creeps up on us
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> thanks for setting the trello-board public
<ochosi> and for checking whether it's in sync
<elfy> welcome - I'll check the sync this weekend
<ochosi> guess it's important to get an overview now that FF is only a few days away
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> elfy: anything i can help with to make QA less moribund?
<elfy> ochosi: if people aren't testing what can we do - you could mail the dev list perhaps, not sure what else we can do
<elfy> there are a couple of people testing images now and again 
<elfy> seems that jjfrv8 does some package testing when I call 
<elfy> maybe see what happens with the first beta call/test in a week or two
<ochosi> ok, i can also do some testing myself
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> if you have specific things that need more looking at, let me know
<elfy> I will
<elfy> mostly atm my concern is what happens when we beta test - if I'm the only one testing that - then what's the point in bothering *shrug*
<ochosi> well one person testing is significantly better than zero [:
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> i guess it's hard to make testing more attractive
<ochosi> although if you want, we can sit down and think about creating more incentive
<ochosi> (and even if it only is that we send ppl who test regularly xubuntu stickers)
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks for doing the meeting! if you need input/help with the article for x.org let me know (of if you want me to review it)
<elfy> ochosi: yea testing is boring ... especially if you sit there and do 10 at a time 
<elfy> might be some mileage in incentivising it (if that's even a word )
<elfy> off for a bit now
<ochosi> elfy: right, then let's think about that some more. i wouldn't mind investing a few of those bucks left in our "account" held by knome into this (at least i see much more direct benefit for us as a team from that then handing out flyers at conferences etc)
<ochosi> (and if incentivising isn't a word, it definitely should be! :))
<brainwash> ochosi: does bug 1054299 really affect xfpm directly? any idea?
<ubottu> bug 1054299 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Race condition in suspend scripts reveals desktop" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054299
<brainwash> it does call xflock4 from xfce4-session
<ochosi> brainwash: haha, well good to read that suspend also didn't work nicely with xscreensaver
<ochosi> and what i considered a security threat (i.e. locking only when waking up) is considered normal there
<elfy> ha 
<ochosi> i would say it has to do with xscreensaver, not with xflock or the power-manager
<ochosi> i mean now it
<ochosi> 's logind handling that
<brainwash> so.. can xfpm be removed from the affects list?
<brainwash> closing the report completely is not an option yet, right?
<brainwash> because 12.04 is still a supported release
<brainwash> and not clue about 14.04
<ochosi> i presume that for those using xscreensaver in 14.04, it might still be a problem
<ochosi> but no clue, i haven't used xscreensaver in quite a while
<brainwash> kinda strange though
<elfy> aren't they all ... 
<ochosi> suspend is just still a very tricky procedure on linux obviously
<brainwash> it's a high priority bug plus security related :/
<brainwash> and we cannot get rid of it
<elfy> ochosi: re incentivising ... if we think about it till the beta testing - then if it's dead still take it to meeting 
<ochosi> elfy: you mean think about it as in make a list of possible options and discuss that after b1 @meeting?
<bluesabre> hey guys
<elfy> ochosi: yea I think so :p
<ochosi> o hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> elfy: okeydokey, lemme know if the ideas get too many and you wanna write them down anywhere ;)
<elfy> if we manage to get that many we can chuck it on a pad 
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> bluesabre: so how's the weekend looking? got time to look into lls with me?
<bluesabre> ochosi: so far, looking open for today
<bluesabre> what changes need to be made for lls at this point, did we get everything we need with xfpm 1.3.1?
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> haven't had a look at your parole issue yet
<elfy> no problem - I'd think other things have more priority
<ochosi> bluesabre: i would personally add a check for xfpm in lls and if it's running we hide the dpms and blank settings since xfpm handles all of that
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> so basically there aren't that many settings left for lls, but well...
<bluesabre> I can also add a button that launches the xfpm settings... does it support specific tab opening?
<ochosi> hmm, i think it partly does already
<ochosi> because we can open the devices tab
<ochosi> but it might need more work to open specific tabs
<bluesabre> ok, I'll take a look
<ochosi> i think right now we just open the last tab, cause that's always devices
<ochosi> but not sure
<ochosi> (eric implemented that part)
<ochosi> hmpf, splitsville
<bluesabre> splitcity
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh, you're back
<bluesabre> yup, just got back
<ochosi> so finalizing catfish now?
<bluesabre> yes, want to test it in a bit
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> ah, that question mark was important :)
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> lemme know when you're ready
<Unit193> Soo, I've been told to tell you when I do personal Xfce things like merges.  I'm merging xfce4-session 4.11.0 from experimental.
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> I'll sponsor that for you when you're ready
<Unit193> The one in experimental is older than unstable, so kind of did a merge of both.
<Unit193> OK, I'll upload a dsc for you.
<bluesabre> ok, just committed changes for catfish... "--start" can autostart the search on startup
<bluesabre> catfish /home/sean kittens --start
<Unit193> bluesabre: dget https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-session_4.11.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
<bluesabre> awesome
<Unit193> Don't forget to review, I may have botched it. :D
<bluesabre> D:
<ochosi> bluesabre: weee, that we should definitely add to whiskermenu!
<ochosi> i mean as a default action
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks, wasn't sure if we were going to go for more 4.11 this cycle.
<bluesabre> as much as we can get in before thursday
<bluesabre> hopefully nick does the settings release soon
<ochosi> maybe something like "search kitten" would do "catfish /home/$user kitten --start" and "search kitten everywhere" could do "catfish / kitten --start"
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should remind him and otherwise you can just do the release
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> libxfce4util?
<Unit193> That and xfce4-mixer are the only things experimental has that Ubuntu doesn't.
<bluesabre> it would probably make sense to grab them
<Unit193> Our delta for -mixer is an epoch. >_x
<ochosi> rly?
<ochosi> how come?
<bluesabre> probably pulseaudio or something
<bluesabre> brb
<ochosi> i don't think we have pulseaudio support in the mixer in ubuntu
<ochosi> wonder how long it'll take until gst0.10 is gone from the repos
<ochosi> maybe not too soon though, not sure
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-mixer/1:4.2.1-2ubuntu1 That's the first hit in the changelog for it.
<bluesabre> wowza
<ochosi> holy christ
<ochosi> that was a while ago :)
<bluesabre> ok, catfish does work as a whiskermenu action
<bluesabre> so thats handy
<ochosi> you just have to decide what the shortcut will be
<ochosi> what did you think about the location substitution?
<ochosi> or defaulting to some location like home by default
<ochosi> weeee, sorry for that overuse of default
<bluesabre> just default to home 
<bluesabre> by default
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yup, i think that makes sense for most ppl
<bluesabre> notice any issues or have any suggestions?  thinking about letting 1.2.0 out of the gate now
<ochosi> lemme test the whisker-action
<bluesabre> /path/to/catfish %s --start
<ochosi> (also, you didn't say "test it now" before, so i haven't looked yet)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> hm, the wording of "this process requires.." is not ideal maybe
<ochosi> how about "This action requires administrative rights"?
<bluesabre> sure, that sounds nicer and to the point
<ochosi> mm, nice infobar stuff
<ochosi> also the abort-infobar, i like it
<Unit193> '...would do "catfish /home/$user kitten...' Ever heard of $HOME?
<ochosi> "user aborted authentication." is not very elegantly put though, sounds a bit wooden :)
<bluesabre> actually, the code actually works out so home is default, so you don't even have to provide a path
<ochosi> Unit193: nope, there's no place like $HOME.
<bluesabre> "You gave up trying to remember your password"
<bluesabre> "Authentication cancelled" perhaps?
<ochosi> yeah, maybe
<ochosi> btw, not sure why the "esc" or cancel button don't work as responsively as they used to
<bluesabre> possibly because locate is actually being used again... apparently that code got ignored the last few releases :)
<ochosi> hm, it also seems to reload the list if i hit cancel
<ochosi> ah, hehe
<ochosi> so it'
<ochosi> s a feature? :)
<bluesabre> ;)
<bluesabre> "reload the list"?
<ochosi> ok, i guess i can reproduce it like this:
<ochosi> enter e.g. "kittens", hit search, then after a few results hit cancel
<ochosi> then *don't* change the search term, hit search again and then cancel again
<ochosi> then it reloads the result-list a few times for me (at least twice)
<bluesabre> ahhh
<bluesabre> nice catch
<bluesabre> fix pushed
<ochosi> oh that was quick
<ochosi> yup, that works
<bluesabre> would have been faster, but http://grammarist.com/spelling/cancel/
<ochosi> the fact that the cancelling is still very sluggish sucks a bit
<ochosi> but yeah, at least locate is being used again i guess ;)
<bluesabre> the app closes quickly even with locate, so thats something :)
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> yup, the whiskermenu action rules
<ochosi> nice stuff
<ochosi> the rest works as planned as far as i can tell
<ochosi> btw, i guess instead of a panel-plugin one could also try to pop up catfish (without window-deco) where whiskermenu was
<ochosi> maybe there
<ochosi> 's some mutual integration that could be done, passing around parameters and all
<bluesabre> maybe, I'll have to think about that one
<bluesabre> yay, my pbuilder finally built Unit193's package
<bluesabre> now to test
<ochosi> could also talk to graeme gott
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> be back after one episode of sherlock...
<Unit193> Wait, new ones or are you way behind?
<bluesabre> session
<bluesabre> first it was a failed build since pbuilder was out of date
<bluesabre> then I had to update and try again
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> but everything looks ok, uploading now
<Unit193> Nono, I meant Sherlock. :P
<Unit193> But, glad it's working.
 * skellat notes that LP Bug #1297649 plus the linked bits from Debian may bring cause for an archive removal for Trusty and Utopic of twinkle if somebody on our end wants to spearhead such
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1297649 in twinkle (Ubuntu) "Not started (show) twinkle on 14.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297649
 * bluesabre release catfish 1.2.0 https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.2/1.2.0
<bluesabre> re: twinkle, yikes
<bluesabre> Unit193, Noskcaj, interested ^ ?
<Unit193> In paperwork?  Nope.
<bluesabre> D:
<Noskcaj> paperwork: nope, catfish: Are you going to do the debian package or should i?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, if you want to, go ahead :)
<Noskcaj> sure
<Unit193> "twinkle's binaries are not seeded."  I see no reason for it to be an Xubuntu problem.
<bluesabre> should be straight-forward, no packaging changes should be needed
<Noskcaj> Anything non version-bump needed?
<Noskcaj> ok
<bluesabre> thanks :)
<Noskcaj> Did you fix the about dialogue issue?
<bluesabre> wrong version number displayed?
<Noskcaj> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=757828
<ubottu> Debian bug 757828 in catfish "catfish: about dialog and --version show 1.0.2" [Minor,Open]
<bluesabre> yeah, that should happen no longer :)
<bluesabre> the about dialog was hard-coded in the glade file, and now its smarter
<Noskcaj> great
<bluesabre> for the next release, I'll go to a python build system and then I won't forget that anymore ;)
<Unit193> * Patch aclocal.m4 and configure to build on ppc64el.   We can likely just sync the 4.11 one then.
<bluesabre> of which thing?
<Unit193> Bleh, looks like a no.
<ochosi> Unit193: i was way behind
<ochosi> bluesabre: congrats on catfish
<ochosi> now let's go and add a custom action to whisker as soon as catfish hits utopic
<Unit193> ochosi: Ah, I see.  Didn't think they were due back yet.
<ochosi> i still have a bit ahead of (lucky) me
<ochosi> bluesabre: still wanting to look at lls?
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> yeah, will do that one next
<bluesabre> ochosi: careful, if you watch a few sherlocks, you'll have watched them all
<Unit193> Hah, indeed.
<ochosi> hehe, yeah, that's the worst part of it tbh
<bluesabre> ochosi: xfce4-power-manager --version doesn't seem to output any version
<ochosi> hah, indeed
<ochosi> fun bug
<bluesabre> was going to use that to verify versions :)
<ochosi> hehe, bad idea
<ochosi> i'm looking into it now
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'll add a breaks for xfce4-power-manager << 1.3.0 when I package it, that should make it safe
<ochosi> yeah, i think that's better than actually checking xfpm's version
<ochosi> i mean it's possible, but obviously it doesn't work :)
<bluesabre> it happens
<bluesabre> catfish-1.0.3 said it was 1.0.2
<ochosi> yeah, the xfpm 1.3.1 release said it was 1.3.0 in the release mail :)
<bluesabre> who knows how that even happened ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: heh, try xfce4-power-manager --debug --version
<bluesabre> ochosi: haha
<ochosi> i'm still in the progress of debugging this
<ochosi> not entirely sure what's going on there
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-17
<ochosi> very odd, even if i set debug to TRUE in the code it doesn't print out the version statement correctly
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> psutil changed in utopic
<bluesabre> p.exe is now a function instead of a string
 * bluesabre wonders how many of his apps use that
<ochosi> wow, that is "awesome"
<ochosi> so lls would've been broken by that anyway?
<ochosi> it's very weird how much parole's and xfpm's code look alike partially
<ochosi> (well actually it isn't)
<bluesabre> Weren't they both started by Ali?
<bluesabre> and yes, lls is broken by that
<ochosi> hah, found the culprit
<ochosi> show_version(); was called too late in the code
<ochosi> after xfpm already forks
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Forking problems again.
<ochosi> mkay, pushed the fix
<bluesabre> woo!
<ochosi> i also found the commit that broke the version string
<ochosi> it was after 1.3.0 seemingly
<ochosi> so before that it should've worked just fine
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i guess after catching and fixing a bug each, we're even again now?
<bluesabre> I've already fixed a second one ;)
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> but that wasn't one i discovered though, was it?
<bluesabre> true
<ochosi> phew
<ochosi> does closing a bugreport as invalid also count as fixing a bug? :]
<bluesabre> not sure I'd go that far
<ochosi> i did get xfpm below the 50 bugs mark though
<bluesabre> good job!
<bluesabre> almost finished with the xfpm patch
<bluesabre> if you're willing to stick around a few more minutes to see
<bluesabre> making it a bit dynamic, so other settings managers can be easily added as needed
<ochosi> mm nice
<ochosi> i guess we could discuss including lls in ll
<ochosi> e.g. as a compile-time option
<Unit193> But, .desktop files?
<ochosi> hm?
<ochosi> well as long as the dbus interface isn't finished there's no other way to change settings
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://imgur.com/9kpsiwB
<ochosi> bluesabre: sweet, that looks perfect!
<bluesabre> ochosi: sticking around for a bit longer?
<bluesabre> ochosi: functional diff, everything seem sane and align with what you imagined? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8067345/
<ochosi> bluesabre: looking..
<bluesabre> found an issue already, we have a lock on suspend button, should also set xfpm's setting
<bluesabre> but everything else?
<ochosi> hm, we could try to remove that screensaver-desktop file from ~/.config/autostart
<ochosi> since it would conflict with xfpm
<ochosi> the rest looks fine, as far as i can tell from reading the diff
<bluesabre> we do
<bluesabre> line #42
<ochosi> oh, sry, obviously too tired
<bluesabre> its not a good variable name
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> otherwise i wouldn't have been able to overlook that
<ochosi> yeah, it's not ideal :)
<ochosi> not that there's too much time, but we could do a dev relase
<ochosi> release
<ochosi> for translators
<ochosi> and then do a stable release + upload shortly before FF
<ochosi> or we do a stable release now and then do a .1 release for translations after FF
<bluesabre> either or
<bluesabre> stable makes it easier to roll it in
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i guess the latter option is bette
<ochosi> r
<ochosi> also gives translators more time effectively
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> so we keep the lock on suspend duplication i guess
<ochosi> while it sucks a bit, i guess it's weird to move it out of this context
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> hopefully as soon as the dbus stuff is there we can move these remaining options to a locking tab in xfpm
<bluesabre> ochosi, which syncs more frequently for the lock setting, session or xfpm?
<bluesabre> or, which syncs with which?
<ochosi> xfpm -> session
<ochosi> or actually
<ochosi> well, i mean: xfpm watches session and sync its settings with it
<ochosi> it does that both ways though, if you change it in xfpm, it'll change it in session too, if you change it in session, it'll get updated in xfpm too
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> so theoretically it doesn't matter for lls
<bluesabre> but it does if you are using xfpm not with xfce
<bluesabre> so xfpm > session for our purposes
<ochosi> yeah, or light-locker with the session but without xfpm ;)
<bluesabre> phew
<ochosi> either way, i agree, for our purposes its better to sync with xfpm
<bluesabre> too much complexity
<ochosi> also, thinking of lubuntu
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> trying lls here only changes the config option in session
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> now i remember
<ochosi> the UI of xfpm doesn't get updated
<ochosi> guess i need to introduce the correct xfconf_bind commands at some point
<bluesabre> one sec
<bluesabre> ok, pull the latest commit
<bluesabre> make; sudo make install; light-locker-settings
<bluesabre> and I guess configure before all that ;)
<bluesabre> *phew* lots of work
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/0PS6VXN
<bluesabre> trusty?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> hmm
<bluesabre> -.-
<ochosi> :s
<bluesabre> I'll work around it
<ochosi> nah
<ochosi> no need
<ochosi> at least not unless we want to provide a new xfpm + lls + ll for trusty in a PPA or something
<bluesabre> quick fix so you can test
<ochosi> ok
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8067548/
<ochosi> hm, still spits out the same error about "str" object not being callable
<ochosi> (ran make and sudo make install after applying the diff)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<bluesabre> remove the () 
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^
<ochosi> ah silly me
<ochosi> ok, now it works fine
<ochosi> the size of the dialog is a bit odd
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> but the rest is all quite perfect
<bluesabre> going to hack that a bit
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> i guess it still accounts for the hidden eleemnts
<bluesabre> yeah, we'll have to resize down before displaying
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> sry, gotta get some rest now
<bluesabre> alrighty, have a good night
<ochosi> but anyway, i think this is releasable as is
<bluesabre> I try ;)
<ochosi> it nicely accounts for the changes in xfpm
<ochosi> and there aren't really many other changes in the pipe for xfpm 1.4
<ochosi> and we'll have to see whether ll1.6 makes it for 14.10
<ochosi> (i somehow doubt it, even though the dbus interface is ready apart from the missing commandline switches)
<ochosi> anyhoo, nighty!
<bluesabre> cool, looking forward to seeing that come to light
<bluesabre> seeya!
<bluesabre> (-locker)
<bluesabre> anybody around?
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke?
<bluesabre> nvm
<bluesabre> ochosi: just pushed a commit that should also work in trusty
<bluesabre> take it for a spin tomorrow and let me know if it works
<bluesabre> Updated release notes, so now just looking for verification. :)
<bluesabre> it also sizes properly now, http://imgur.com/JQMqUOA
<Unit193> bluesabre: I iz here now.
<bluesabre> I figured it out... needed to run a python command in trusty
<bluesabre> thanks thought, Unit193 :)
<bluesabre> *though
<bluesabre> got any more packages to be sponsored before I head to bed?
<Unit193> I think all mine are to be postponed or PPA'd until later.
<Unit193> (Didn't look more into util or -mixer, seemed simple though.)
<bluesabre> ok
<Unit193> G'night.
<Unit193> Stargate SGA time.
<bluesabre> have a good night, be back tomorrow for a bit
<ochosi> bluesabre: works nicely (lls)
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - do we have a bug kicking about where lls refuses to believe you when you say that you really don't want the screen to blank - but setting it with xfpm appears to work?
<ochosi> elfy: in trusty or utopic?
<ochosi> (in utopic, the idea is that you only set the blanking with xfpm, lls won't handle that part anymore)
<ochosi> (a bit less settings-duplication)
<elfy> utopic - ok that'll be why I guess - is the option to do so being removed from lls at some point - or is that all part of what you were both talking about yesterday? 
<ochosi> it is already removed
<ochosi> we just haven't done the release yet
<ochosi> and yeah, xfpm is actually supposed to override lls in terms of the blanking settings. good to hear that's working :)
<elfy> yea :)
<elfy> so that all appears to work with xfpm then :D
<ochosi> anything else you noticed?
<ochosi> i mean bugwise
<elfy> not atm - I try and pick things up as I use stuff, and of course watch what's being updated and look there
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> elfy, that and the code currently in utopic fails to validate the existence of and kill light-locker and xfpm
<bluesabre> soooo, that's the issue ;)
 * bluesabre works on release now
<elfy> okey doke - glad to see you're all on top of things :)
<bluesabre> we try
<bluesabre> some days
<elfy> heh
<bluesabre> release done, https://launchpad.net/light-locker-settings/1.4/1.4.0
 * bluesabre works on packaging
<ochosi> nice work bluesabreÂ°!
<elfy> I'd say that too - but it looks like voodoo to me :D
<elfy> I'll just say thanks instead :p
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> i guess i should start drawing one of the >100 device icons we need for xfpm1.3
<elfy> ochosi: we stopped doping the t-shirts for team thing didn't we?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that went on a halt, partly because of the alternatives for spending the money
<elfy> shall I remove it or postpone it? 
<ochosi> postpone i'd say, just as a reminder that we should look into spending that money wisely at some point
<ochosi> be it to support the QA team, or to support xfce's bug bounty programme
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> (i'd prefer either of those options btw
<ochosi> )
<ochosi> currently favoring supporting the QA team
<elfy> ochosi: got 2 items on new features blueprint - lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings into the archive and include it in seed and Create a UI for the panel-switch application on blueprints - missing from trello
<elfy> add them ?
<elfy> nvm - doing it :)
<ochosi> please do so, although i think we might postpone both
<elfy> ok
<elfy> ochosi: ok - trello and blueprints should be synced now
 * elfy wanders off for a while 
<ochosi> thanks a bunch elfy!
<bluesabre> light-locker-settings 1.4.0 uploaded to utopic
<ochosi> sweet, i have the feeling we're moving at the speed of light in comparison to 14-04 :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> need to do the greeter releases today some time
<ochosi> oh right, that one...
<ochosi> i'll be working on reducing the amount of icons xfpm currently needs for its device menu
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> also, glad to see the brightness icon is correct the popup menu
<ochosi> (drawing a progressbar for the device-load-status with cairo or something)
<ochosi> yeah, the icon should look ok now
<ochosi> at least i hope it does now
<bluesabre> it does
<ochosi> good
 * bluesabre adds utopic to greeter daily builds
<bluesabre> I'll test it today and add any needed changes to make 1.8.5 to 1.9 seamless
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> so i guess we'll postpone the default extended desktop mode for the greeter to 15.04
<bluesabre> might be able to crank that out by thursday
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> hehe
 * bluesabre pulls music library to computer to test elfy's bug
<bluesabre> elfy, does menulibre 2.0.5 in utopic seem to work as you'd expect?
<bluesabre> it should be the ultimate, bug-free version
 * bluesabre needs to SRU it back to trusty
<ochosi> heh, "ultimate bug-free version" doesn't exist i guess :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> after FF, I'll start work on the next iteration, which will add all the features knome requested
<ochosi> sounds cool
<bluesabre> ochosi, in the meantime, want to add the fancy icon you made for it to elementary-xfce?
<bluesabre> 2.1+ will include it
<ochosi> hm, true, could do that
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/artwork2
<ochosi> it's appicon name is just menulibre, right?
<ochosi> (i hope you install all of them correctly, not as _24.svg etc :))
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> and yeah, they get installed in the right locations
<elfy> bluesabre: I've not used it since I checked the testcase - I'll give it bit of a hammering 
<bluesabre> elfy: great, thanks
<ochosi> bluesabre: done
<bluesabre> awesome, thanks ochosi!
<ochosi> np
<bluesabre> crap
<ochosi> now i just need to find the quickest/easiest way to draw on a gtkimagemenuitem with cairo and then i'm done for today :)
<ochosi> crap?
<bluesabre> elfy, I can reproduce your bug
<bluesabre> in parole
<bluesabre> guess that means I'll have to fix it
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, can you reproduce in trusty?
<ochosi> awwwh :)
<ochosi> what bug?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1356979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356979 in parole (Ubuntu) "Fast forward/jog during a track changes to next playlist track" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> might be a new gstreamer thing
<bluesabre> even skipping with the slider causes it to advance
 * bluesabre installs totem
<elfy> bluesabre: well as much as I don't like that you can reproduce it - on the other hand I'm not going mad ;)
<bluesabre> there's an up-side to everything
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> yeah, actually the skipping ahead and backwards has really become worse with gst1.0
<ochosi> not sure if it's our code or just gst1.0
<bluesabre> totem autoskips too
<ochosi> great :/
 * bluesabre builds parole with gst0.10
<bluesabre> gst0.10 does not skip to the next track
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> that's what i thought
<ochosi> s/thought/feared/
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to poke around the ubuntu/gstreamer channels?
<bluesabre> heading out to visit family shortly
<ochosi> bluesabre: will see what i can do, first i wanna fix the xfpm battery plugin so i don't have to draw the >100 icons
<ochosi> for the various devices
<ochosi> i mean i don't know what to tell them other than "gst 1.0 sucks with skipping back and forth in a track"
<elfy> bluesabre: well menulibre appears to be ok so far, but I'll play about for a few days
<bluesabre> that'd be about it :)
<bluesabre> elfy, cool, thanks again
<ochosi> have a nice day bluesabre 
<elfy> yep indeed
<ochosi> and thanks for all the nice fixes and uploads!
<elfy> I'll be about off and on now
<bluesabre> seeya guys, hf
<elfy> no mistaking that lls doesn't do screensaver settings now then :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: weird, when dragging a single media file (mkv, on a ssh server) to parole's playlist it adds all files in the folder
<ochosi> have you experienced that before? guess i gotta check whether that happens with other files too or whether it's just this particular combination
<ochosi> (works fine in totem btw)
<ochosi> guess for some reason it takes the folder over the file
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-10
<bluesabre> ochosi: yay
<bluesabre> guess I'll try digging deeper into that tomorrow
<Bradcarnage> hello
<Bradcarnage> hey  flocculant
<flocculant> morning
<Bradcarnage> how are you?
<flocculant> still waking up ;)
<Bradcarnage> oh, cool :P
<Bradcarnage> i just got saved by my phone
<Bradcarnage> my motherboard wont connect to any sata connectors
<Bradcarnage> so it couldnt boot >_>
<Bradcarnage> thus i formatted a flash drive with xubuntu and im running in preview mode haha
<flocculant> :)
<Bradcarnage> hard drives and ssd's are so mainstream nowdays
<Bradcarnage> i perfer an 8gig flash drive
<Bradcarnage> whats on my hard drive, is windows 10 with xubuntu in seamless mode running off of virtualbox
<Bradcarnage> and virtualbox just points to the other partition in my hard drive :P
<Bradcarnage> whazam, 2 operating systems(on real partitions) running at the same time
<Bradcarnage> anybody hanging out in chat?
<knome> Bradcarnage, #xubuntu-offtopic 
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> daily appears to be booting to login only - just running out again - can someone else confirm :)
<jjfrv8> flocculant, I can confirm - at least partially...
<jjfrv8> I did the 64-bit image with unetbootin. When I picked "Try" from the grub menu, all I got was a login for "Other".
<jjfrv8> But when I picked "Install" from grub, it installed and rebooted fine.
<jjfrv8> I'll let you decide what to do about the bug :P
<jjfrv8> oh, and this was on hardware.
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks :)
<flocculant> just grabbing ubuntu - check it'sz not just us
<flocculant> and without checking everyone else - seems to be
<Unit193> That actually may be related to a merge, and just need uploaded.
<flocculant> Unit193: the boot fail?
<Unit193> In theory, there's a slight chance yeah.  lightdm config was touched, changing seatdefaults to another name.
<flocculant> right 
<flocculant> I did see some lightdm updates 
<flocculant> so where to check 
<Unit193> Change 60-xubuntu.conf  [SeatDefaults] â [Seat:*]  ?
<flocculant> mmm - changed that, stopped and started lightdm - same deal 
<Unit193> Was just a thought.
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> but it was definitely not seat:* 
<Unit193> No, it wouldn't have been. https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-config/+merge/267280
<flocculant> well I beg to differ http://postimg.org/image/mmkqk0cnv/full/
<flocculant> ubuntu has seat:* we don't
<flocculant> nvm - read you wrong
<Unit193> It's in bzr, it'll be released with the next one.
<Unit193> Anywho, since that was my only idea, I'll just shut it now. :)
<flocculant> yea - just read you again where it makes more sense 
<flocculant> I thought bluesabre merged it
<ochosi> yeah, merged but maybe not uploaded yet
<flocculant> anyway - if that's whats causing it
<ochosi> and evening all
<flocculant> I guess we need to upload it then
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> yeah, and we need knome's upload tracker ;)
<flocculant> \o/ 
<ochosi> that way we'd know when these things go in
<ochosi> (ideally with a link to show the changelog)
<flocculant> long and short is that currently - we end up at login window 
<flocculant> wandering off now 
<knome> huh :P
<bluesabre> looks like I have an upload to do
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> so the patch didn't work at all for you?
<bluesabre> nope
<ochosi> really wonder what went wrong there, worked fine here
<bluesabre> I'll try again shortly
<bluesabre> or at least figure it out
<ochosi> yeah, i'm rebuilding cleanly again too
<ochosi> still works...
<ochosi> so really not sure what's going on there
<bluesabre> probably just some difference between master and ubuntu
<ochosi> i guess so
<ochosi> also, andrzejr brought up a valid concern about having a gtkplug nested in a gtkplug
<bluesabre> saw that
<ochosi> but i dunno, could be that it work
<ochosi> s
<bluesabre> would have to check it out, it should still work
<ochosi> yeah, anyway, i'd say that's for v2.0 ;)
<bluesabre> agreed
<ochosi> hm, so in debian/patches i don't see anything suspicious tbh
<ochosi> knome: didn't you want the separator to be up there with the launcher in the "add new items" dialog of the panel?
<knome> ochosi, yep
<knome> ochosi, i think that would make sense
<knome> specifically since language versions can throw it anywhere in the list
<bluesabre> can check it out with: dget https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+files/xfce4-panel_4.12.0-3ubuntu2%7Eppa1%7E15.10.dsc
<bluesabre> extract both the tar and debian.tar, drop debian into xfce4-panel
<bluesabre> and then run quilt push -a
<bluesabre> to see what it looks like when patched
<knome> who are you talking to?
<bluesabre> ochosi: 
<knome> okay
<bluesabre> the only person on this channel talking to me
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> knome: hm, just looked, it's a bit more complex than i thought
<ochosi> that might be the reason nobody has patched that yet for you ;)
<ochosi> that, plus i'm not sure there's a bugreport for it
<Unit193> Hallo, bluesabre.  I am talking to you now.
<ochosi> bluesabre: k, will look
<knome> ochosi, if not, i can report one tomorrow for you if you want - just tell me where you want it
<ochosi> knome: upstream
<knome> ochosi, k, will try to remember to do that
<ochosi> bluesabre: humm, no series file found
<ochosi> which is odd, cause there clearly is one
<knome> bluesabre, got the reminder email from tracker?
<bluesabre> knome: yup, straight to spam
<ochosi> :>
<bluesabre> redirected it :D
<bluesabre> out of spam, that is to say
<knome> haha
<ochosi> bluesabre: anything i have to do apart from running quilt?
<bluesabre> ochosi: 
<bluesabre> ah, no quiltrc
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
<bluesabre> ochosi: ~/.quiltrc http://paste.ubuntu.com/12052049/
<bluesabre> (for future)
<ochosi> ok, applied the patches
<ochosi> so now i just build as always?
<ochosi> also: we should really really rename the executable to xfce4-panel-switch or something
<ochosi> xfpanel-switch feels so non-standard
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> almost as bad as xfdesktop
<ochosi> yeah, ouch
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> anyway, building with configure and make?
<ochosi> or some debian funky way?
 * ochosi usually doesn't wear a quilt
<Unit193> xfconf-query or xfsettingsd too.
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think the normal build commands should work
<bluesabre> otherwise, you can just grab the packages out of my ppa
<ochosi> that's ok, i can build
<bluesabre> otherwise, it'd be a series of commands which would take a while (setting up pbuilder and whatnot)
<ochosi> so i see that it doesn't work
<ochosi> but i don't really see the difference yet
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> boo
<ochosi> wow, the diff of my git master copy and the one i just dgot from you is zerrrro
<knome> hooray
<ochosi> at least for the files i patched (panel-preferences.c and .glade)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> so yeah, fun
<ochosi> bluesabre: so the million-dollar-question is: why would this not return a valid object? object = gtk_builder_get_object (GTK_BUILDER (dialog), "panel-switch");
<bluesabre> oh....
<bluesabre> I think I know why
<bluesabre> the .ui file is already compiled into .h
<bluesabre> my bad
<ochosi> fun times
<bluesabre> can work around that
<ochosi> ok, good that it's so simple :)
<bluesabre> you're probably free to go, this patch will be to the deb packaging instead
<bluesabre> but it should work
<bluesabre> if the patch is good
<ochosi> \o/
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> *if*
<ochosi> big IF
<bluesabre> #if
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> we'll see
<bluesabre> thanks for making me think harder
<ochosi> fwiw, i ran a restore action a few minutes ago as a test and it worked fine when xfpanel-switch was launched from the panel prefs
<ochosi> no problem, anytime
<bluesabre> yeah, that should work
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> so i dunno, now that we quite quickly sorted that out, do you wanna go straight to v2.0? ;D
<bluesabre> :p
<bluesabre> gotta do this, mark some tasks off, and work on catfish
<knome> only twentyish people more and we have 4000 followers in twitter
<bluesabre> getting too close to ff
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> oh also, imo we should hide the normal launcher
<ochosi> not sure it has to be so prominent
<ochosi> i'd only show it in the panel prefs
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> the launcher for xfpanel-switch
<ochosi> i wouldn't show it in the settings manager was what i meant
<knome> hmm, really?
<bluesabre> ah, right
<bluesabre> there's a lot of things that shouldn't show in the settings manager
<knome> hide them!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, some of them we can hide, with some it's harder
<bluesabre> don't have them in the first place ;)
<bluesabre> thunar prefs does not need a launcher
<ochosi> Ã¼1
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> not sure the panel prefs have to be a launcher there
<ochosi> but well, for that one you have to know you can right-click the panel
<ochosi> which is a bit less obvious than using thunar's menu
<bluesabre> or if you potentially have a single button mosue still
<bluesabre> or trying to get to it with a keyboard
<knome> i generally think that the panel item is ok in the settings manager
<knome> sameish for the thunar prefs
<knome> but since you can get to the -switch stuff from panel prefs (right?), it isn't needed
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> it's more a panel extension than its own thing
<bluesabre> agreed
<bluesabre> unless you trashed your panel
<bluesabre> somehow
<bluesabre> bad plugin
<knome> so to be exact, i don't think it's a bad thing to have that one place where you can access all configuration
<bluesabre> then it'd be good to not open the panel prefs to get to it
<knome> but to duplicate stuff in multiple launchers there seems overkill
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean in a case where the panel wouldn't launch anymore?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah
 * ochosi wonders whether that can happen
<ochosi> or better yet: how
<bluesabre> probably something with character encoding
<ochosi> would be interesting to try that
<ochosi> just to see what happens
<ochosi> but so far, for me the panel just restarted empty when there were problems
<ochosi> that was the worst case i encountered
<knome> so, have you thought about shipping some predefined panel configurations with this?
<bluesabre> we could provide our default
<knome> at least that
<knome> but i was thinking more
<bluesabre> or maybe past defaults as well
<bluesabre> like classic vs modern
<knome> something like that
<bluesabre> precise, trusty
<knome> or xfce default
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> first though, we should try to iron out potential problems with that
<knome> this would increase the usefulness of this app for many by miles
<bluesabre> gnome2
<bluesabre> mhm
<ochosi> e.g. missing plugins
<knome> unity
 * knome hides
<ochosi> yeah, why not
<knome> well, i don't think we need to go *too* far with it
<ochosi> unity can be done
<ochosi> at least more or less
<knome> some people like the xfce panel layout, and some have accustomed to our old defautls
<knome> so it would make sense to ship at least those
<bluesabre> http://sivadnaes.deviantart.com/art/Xunity-386406691
<ochosi> but i guess for this to really work, we'd need to check for the plugins needed by a preset to see whether everything is installed
<knome> yep
<ochosi> and then either offer a simple way to install
<knome> sure
<ochosi> or.. eh, no, i guess that's the only meaningful thing :)
<knome> hah
<knome> bluesabre, like the username
<bluesabre> nice thing about the panel is that it automatically drops uninstalled plugins
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, i just noticed that clicking the new avatar-feature of whiskermenu (next to the username) opens mugshot
<knome> bluesabre, yes... though then you don't really get the preset you are trying to load
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, I think gottcode handled that
<ochosi> yeah, i know, it doesn't crash in fire and all, but there still should be a warning that things aren't working as they should
<bluesabre> knome: I was being witty that day
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> nice changing into a preset with whiskermenu if that is for some reason deleted from the system
<knome> then you don't have a menu at all
<knome> "what poop is this preset"
<knome> etc...
<knome> bluesabre, feeling remorseful?
<bluesabre> knome: nah
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> yeah, anyway, that stuff is far more complex than what xfpanel-switch does now
<ochosi> especially since it should be distro-independent
 * ochosi feels reminded of the progress made on the parole plugin installer
<knome> sure.. just asking about the plans, since a contributor not mentioned by name was asking about this from me in a PM
<ochosi> a-ha a-ha, a mysterious contributor :p
<bluesabre> knome: hm?
<knome> :D
<knome> it was Unit193 
<knome> "oops"
<ochosi> bluesabre: just so i get an idea, what's left to do for catfish?
<bluesabre> ochosi: make it not look like garbage
<knome> but yeah, i think shipping some presets would be a good idea
<bluesabre> then if it runs, I'll fix some bugs and do a release at the end of the week
<Unit193> What?
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'd say try to create one and share it here (ideally only using plugins we ship by default). i'm party curious as to how we have to configure stuff like resolution to work as a preset
<bluesabre> knome: we don't even have it packaged yet, not sure it's going to make it in unless I find a chance to do that
<bluesabre> (in debian/ubuntu)
<ochosi> maybe Unit193 can help with that
<knome> mhm
<knome> i'm not really talking about 15.10 - or any particular release - just generally
<Unit193> What?
<knome> hello Unit193 
<ochosi> Unit193: we were on the topic of packaging xfpanel-switch, and bluesabre suggested you
<bluesabre> ochosi volunteered you, but close enough
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> oh, ooops ;)
<bluesabre> want to start some of the new package paperwork in either ubuntu or debian?
<Unit193> I'd have to look at upstream to see how easily it'd be managed.
<bluesabre> ochosi: 
<bluesabre> still around?
<bluesabre> I got it to work
<bluesabre> was going to show
<bluesabre> but imgur's uploading seems to be down
<bluesabre> but yay
<bluesabre> so, a potential issue with the patched panel
<bluesabre> we're dropping them in staging, which is fine for vivid
<bluesabre> er, wily
<bluesabre> not for vivid, at least when xfce-4.12 ppa is also enabled
<bluesabre> since the vivid package there is the upstream split panel package that is in wily
<bluesabre> or, maybe not
<bluesabre> maybe I'm delusional here
<bluesabre> ignore me
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> /ignore bluesabre 
<bluesabre> anyway, wily -staging uploaded
<bluesabre> ah, I see my confusion
<bluesabre> no issue here
<bluesabre> carry on
<knome> we're already ignoring you :/
<bluesabre> good
 * bluesabre does a jig
<knome> -saw?
<bluesabre> dangerous
<knome> hah
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-11
<knome> pleia2, ping me when you are home and have something around 30-60 minutes to debug the flyer printing process so we can finally get that done and over with
<knome> Unit193, where's the MP to update the docs debian/ dir?
<Unit193> I don't know?
<knome> can you do one?
<Unit193> knome: For what exactly?
<knome> the dependency updates
<Unit193> To?
<knome> docs
<knome> fop
<Unit193> I see...
<knome> you pasted me that pastebin
<knome> so please make it a MP..
<Unit193> I don't remember any such thing, last paste I had was for livecd-rootfs.
<knome> maybe it was krytarik then
<ochosi> bluesabre: what potential issue with the patched panel? and good to hear you could successfully drop it in -staging!
<knome> ochosi, http://tracker.xubuntu.org/ppa-uploads.html
<bluesabre> ochosi: I followed up with a "ignore me"
<bluesabre> :p
<bluesabre> I thought that staging had the split panel package for vivid, which required a few plugin rebuilds, but that was in staging so it was not a problem
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh ok, perfect. ignoring you now :)
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> knome: sweet
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i guess this is working and we can ping flocculant about it?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yep, it's in -staging and ready to go
<ochosi> cool, so flocculant you can ahead and check xfce4-panel and xfpanel-switch from the staging ppa and give it a go. you can then launch xfpanel-switch from the panel preferences after the update as the new "backup and restore" button
<bluesabre> ochosi: made the sidebar a bit nicer on catfish last night, working on making the sidebar work more nicely https://code.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/gtk316-csd
<ochosi> what widgets are you using in the sidebar btw?
<Unit193> Toggle to turn off CSD, by chance?
<ochosi> buttons?
<bluesabre> ochosi: ListBox
<ochosi> oh interestig
<bluesabre> Unit193: maybe
<Unit193> Oooh, wasn't expecting that.
<bluesabre> xfce handles them sanely now, so not enitrely necessary
<ochosi> is it listbox that is not properly themed in greybird or is it catfish being a bit funky there?
<bluesabre> well, it seems to be gtk being dumb
<bluesabre> listboxrows for some reason are adapting the button class
<ochosi> ooookay :)
<bluesabre> I force remove the css class now
<ochosi> hm, well we can throw together some css to include in catfish if you want
<bluesabre> I fixed that last night
<ochosi> to make it look sane in adwaita and greybird by default
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/gZ6YfWF.png
<ochosi> nice, looks sane now
<ochosi> i just pulled ;)
<ochosi> the menuitems in the settings menu look a bit off still, but other than that it's nice now!
<bluesabre> yeah, going to fiddle with that for a while tonight
<ochosi> anyway, nice work!
<ochosi> looks like the release isn't terribly far away though
<bluesabre> this week for sure
<bluesabre> hoping to drop a mugshot release this weekend as well
<ochosi> the search-entry is a bit short
<ochosi> but well
<bluesabre> need to reach out to libreoffice packaging team today, or blacklist the human theme on the iso
<ochosi> i think file managers work around that by showing the search in a separate row below the headerbar
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> oh right, in that case get in touch with Sweet5hark
<ochosi> he might not always be around, but you're looking for him
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> ochosi: will you be around today?
<bluesabre> it'd be cool if somebody could start prodding ubuntu-dev about an ubiquity release https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk
<ochosi> oh humm, i prolly won't be around during the day..
<ochosi> would be back in about 4hrs or so
<bluesabre> ok, there might still be a few folks around at that time
<ochosi> maybe it's enough to poke someone once now
<ochosi> and i can follow up on it later
<ochosi> i can get in touch with Sweet5hark then
<bluesabre> I'm out from soonish to +10 hours
<ochosi> what do we want from him again?
<ochosi> wrt the human theme i mean
<bluesabre> alternate depends/recommends for libreoffice-gtk on libreoffice-style-human|libreoffice-style-elementary
<bluesabre> I might be able to put together a patch before heading out
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> gotta run now
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre> seeya
<bluesabre> ochosi: this is the diff, basically we want libreoffice-style-elementary as an alternate Recommends for libreoffice-gtk and libreoffice-gtk3 http://paste.ubuntu.com/12054927/
<bluesabre> not sure when lo-5 is due to be packaged, but we can probably blacklist the human theme in our seed for the meantime
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: did that lightdm upload go in - in time for live build at 09:50? if so then I guess it wasn't that
<flocculant> still got password in livesession
<flocculant> ochosi: ok :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, it should be in there
<flocculant> mmm - ok - issue elsewhere then perhaps
<bluesabre> for reference http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-default-settings_15.10.2/changelog
<bluesabre> in case somebody wants to help in the investigation
<flocculant> ok - well that's in the livesession ok 
<flocculant> I guess I'll try in -release later see if I can get some interest in it
<bluesabre> :)
<krytarik> knome: Yes, it was me - I've noticed 'debian/copyright' in the work items too though - so how about you combine it with that? :P - http://paste.openstack.org/show/MqvUKza6T5IN3p2iZsyU/
<knome> krytarik, please, do a MP...
<knome> oh no, not again...
<knome> dpm, hello!
<dpm> o/
<knome> so if you haven't got the information yet, we've moved the tracker to http://tracker.xubuntu.org/
<dpm> knome, so ochosi and I had a conversation about the tracker, and when he showed it to me I thought it was something really cool to showcase. I was just going to mention it on a G+ post, but I asked him whether the server/url were already stable enough to point to, and he'd said he'd check with you
<dpm> so here we are :)
<dpm> essentially, it pulls data from LP blueprints as a nicer/xubuntuier frontend to replace status.u.com, correct?
<knome> yep
<knome> we've also been planning more stuff, like building a list of the latest uploads to our testing PPAs as well as the main repositories for packages that we are interested in
<knome> this would especially help our testers see what has changed lately and focus on making sure new stuff that is landing is working and not regressing
<knome> another new feature i've been preparing is pulling stuff from the QA trackers to get some information on the amount of tests ran etc
<flocculant> ochosi: the digging at why live starts at password is ongoing 
<flocculant> Unit193: it is apparently lightdm "lightdm now expects an actual meaningful value instead of what we're handing it for autologin-session="
<krytarik> # user-session = Session to load for users
<krytarik> # autologin-session = Session to load for automatic login (overrides user-session)
<krytarik> So?
<krytarik> â http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/wily/xubuntu-default-settings/wily/view/head:/debian/60-xubuntu.conf
<flocculant> yea I know
<krytarik> Obviously, we'd want to check what happens when we set "autologin-session=xubuntu", alone and alongside the current one.
<flocculant> krytarik: we could, personally I'm going to let it get dealt with "I'll "fix" that in a second" :)
<flocculant> it's at least Ubuntu also
<flocculant> I'll catch up tomorrow 
<ochosi> late evening all
<ochosi> bluesabre: did only make it back now, so no progress on the LO stuff
<genii> Hehe, yep
<bluesabre> ochosi: darn
<ochosi> and now Sweet5hark isn't around
<bluesabre> double-darn
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> although judging from the logs, he wasn't all day :)
<ochosi> what if we just file a bugreport or better yet a merge-request?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, that's what I need to do
<bluesabre> nothing to merge into
<bluesabre> so need to create a debdiff
<ochosi> then it'd be easier to ping people about
<ochosi> oh
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> hmm, right, it's only a packaging change
<bluesabre> was just in a hurry this morning
<ochosi> oh, doko would be another candidate
<ochosi> you could try to ping him in #u-devel
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> creating a bug report now so we have tracking
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1483914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1483914 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "libreoffice-style-elementary as alternate to libreoffice-style-human" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> i'd say let's either link it to the bugs blueprint or to the dev one
<bluesabre> I'll link it to dev
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> wanna ping doko straight away?
<bluesabre> done linking
<bluesabre> sure
<bluesabre> ochosi: feel free to add any other comments ;)
<ochosi> k :)
<ochosi> well doko is in the LO packaging team
<ochosi> so i would presume he will take care of it
<bluesabre> sensible request then
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> added a line
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool
<ochosi> ok, i guess i gotta get some sleep
<ochosi> bluesabre: anything left for me to do before i take off?
<bluesabre> nah, I'll try to get some stuff together for you to do tomorrow
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> bluesabre: humm, just one more thing..
<ochosi> the clutter bug
<ochosi> that affects parole
<ochosi> has that been fixed meanwhile?
<bluesabre> ochosi: probably not
<bluesabre> but don't know
<ochosi> upstream claims so, but i think ebassi merged two bugs that are not the same
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> suppose I'll have to check that out then
<ochosi> i'll quickly fire up my wily vbox to check
<ochosi> hmm, also, what was the outcome of your talk with Unit193 about xfpanel-switch packaging? can we add a workitem for him or what? :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> one of us will write a bug report tonight for packaging in ubuntu
<bluesabre> maybe I can convince him to tidy up the package if I write the request
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> yeah hmpf, still not fixed
<ochosi> so clutter still has that bug
<ochosi> oh crap
<ochosi> totem works now
<ochosi> so i guess we're on our own
<ochosi> we can either skim totem's changelog for mentions of clutter-gdk or ... humm, well i dunno what else to do
<bluesabre> fun
<bluesabre> sounds like something that can be fixed after FF
<bluesabre> unless somebody wants to look into it
<krytarik> flocculant, Unit193: So, there we go :P - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/1.364 , http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/wily/casper/wily/revision/1187
<bluesabre> krytarik: nice!
<krytarik> Indeed!
<krytarik> Took me a while to find where this file is coming from. :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: found no relevant change in totem when quickly skimming upstreams git
<bluesabre> fun fun
<bluesabre> gstreamer changes that we can't keep up with
<bluesabre> like mugshot's camera
<bluesabre> *cry*
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> also no relevant changes i could find in ubuntu's package
<ochosi> and no patches that point in our direction
<bluesabre> we'll figure it out
<bluesabre> probably just need to sit down with wily and crash it a bunch to figure it out
<ochosi> okeydokey
 * ochosi tries to remain optimistic
<ochosi> so let's fix mugshot's and parole's bugs post-FF
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> so that we can get the feature stuff done now
<bluesabre> try to get new features done this week, bugs after
<ochosi> alrighty, sounds like a plan i can fall asleep to
<bluesabre> so new catfish/menulibre this week/early next week
<bluesabre> and packaging
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> that should get a lot of our workitems done
<bluesabre> mhm
<ochosi> lol https://github.com/gmc-holle/xfdashboard/commit/965b6f01210c3c97fe5c02f3e77b7d45e481e75d
<bluesabre> :3
<ochosi> fwiw, adding the CLUTTER_BACKEND=x11 fixes parole
<bluesabre> that probably won't work for very long
<ochosi> if you want yet another hacky workaround
<bluesabre> but good to know
<ochosi> also, parole still segfaults when closing
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> bugs bugs bugs
<ochosi> which is another, probably unreported bug
<bluesabre> bugs
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> developers developers developers!
<ochosi> anyhoo, time to get some sleep finally
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> night ochsoi
<bluesabre> internet slowing down... uh oh
<bluesabre> bbabl
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, final note: according to this bugreport https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=785538 this might be a clue https://git.gnome.org/browse/totem/commit/?id=8c15325bc12740e94000d7b42a76c2a9b5896560
<ubottu> Debian bug 785538 in totem "[totem] totem crashes at start, no way to start it." [Grave,Fixed]
<ochosi> however, we don't have that call to set the connection-speed in parole
<ochosi> maybe we should add it though
<Unit193> So, Aug 20th is FF, and GCC5 hasn't fully landed yet. :D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-12
<bluesabre> Unit193: FF is the best motivation to start dev work on the cycle
<bluesabre> uploaded menulibre 2.0.7 to debian vcs, we might see that sometime this week
<bluesabre> was going to write up the request for xfpanel-switch, but pretty tired now, will try to tackle that in the morning
<bluesabre> g'night all
<Unit193> menulibre 2.0.7-1 uploaded by Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com>
<bluesabre> woot
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, Unit193: sound good? http://paste.ubuntu.com/12060892/
<knome> bluesabre, s/export these panel/export panel/
<knome> but looks good to me
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> Unit193: care to clean up that packaging so we can submit this a bit later
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> and as micahg suggested, we should help with the bluez5 migration if we can
<bluesabre> in the meantime, it will probably be difficult to get ubuntu-dev attention... sponsor queue is full, gcc5 and bluez5 migrations under way, and FF next week
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> image boots now 
<ochosi> bluesabre: that sounds good to me!
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello
<Unit193> Because I don't seem to care: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/+merge/267879 - https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-core/+merge/267880
<knome> ooh ooh
<knome> MPs
<ochosi> nice nice, here's hoping micahg will take a look soon :)
<Unit193> Meh, they're not the best, but meh.
<knome> you always keep the standars up so high for yourself
<knome> ...j
<Unit193> Eh, I would keep them higher if it was something else. :D
<knome> if you are talking about brain surgery, then sure, that's a valid concern..
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sure, just need to see it, or have commit access, or whatever the kids do these days.
<Unit193> Am I supposed to make upstream changes?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I have questions!
<bluesabre> Unit193: hihi
<bluesabre> what do you need access to?
<Unit193> OnlyShownIn â OnlyShowIn, XFCE â XFCE;
<bluesabre> oops
<bluesabre> updated https://code.launchpad.net/~xfpanel-switch-dev/xfpanel-switch/trunk
<bluesabre> you also have access to this branch
<bluesabre> gotta go for a bit, bbabl
<Unit193> bluesabre: Otherwise, http://paste.openstack.org/show/xdMvS2UFlENnCwz2qF4K/ and new file of debian/upstream/signing-key.asc
<Unit193> I was going to ask intent on something too.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, the Using Removable Media chapter is ready, so now the first four chapters are reviewable.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-13
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 
<Unit193> Heya.
<bluesabre> intent?
<Unit193> Upstream contact, version, and maybe a couple things.
<bluesabre> good for any questions
<Unit193> See diff?
<Unit193> (Movie time, sooo..)
<bluesabre> mhm
<bluesabre> looks good
<Unit193> bluesabre: You got everything/
<bluesabre> yeah, just wife is using all the bandwidth
<bluesabre> I'll have things moving in the morning
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks very good
<bluesabre> Unit193: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+junk/xfpanel-switch-debian/revision/2
<bluesabre> see see
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Uh oh.
<bluesabre> did I goof?
<bluesabre> :|
<Unit193> Ah maybe not.  And would be great to fix that license on that one file there. :P
<Unit193> Yey!
<Unit193> I changed the version to match the tarball.
<bluesabre> saw that, nice catch
<Unit193> Thanks.  Hopefully that's everything.
<bluesabre> I'll put the request and new package in in the morning
<bluesabre> thanks for your work :)
<Unit193> Of course, glad to help.
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm pinging seb128 now for the LO packaging bug
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna help with a debdiff for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1483914 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1483914 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "libreoffice-style-elementary as alternate to libreoffice-style-human" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: seb128 said it might be hard to find a sponsor in time, we can (at least mentally) prep for a FFe
<bluesabre> ochosi: we can also go ahead and blacklist the human theme in our seed for now
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> maybe a good intermediate step
<ochosi> we can always go for the clean solution for 16.04 ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: didn't knome volunteer for making the panel layouts we ship with xfpanel-switch? :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> he may have
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1484478
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1484478 in Xfce Panel Switch "ITP: xfpanel-switch -- layout manager for the Xfce panel" [Undecided,In progress]
<flocculant> quick hello 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> bluesabre: so wanna push the blacklisting straight away?
<ochosi> just to get this done
<ochosi> we can always revert it if we have the time/energy for FFe
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll take care of it tonight
<ochosi> okeydokey
<bluesabre> subscribed micahg and ubuntu-sponsors to https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1484478, linked to xubuntu-w-development blueprint
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1484478 in Xfce Panel Switch "ITP: xfpanel-switch -- layout manager for the Xfce panel" [Wishlist,In progress]
<bluesabre> gotta run now, bbl
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> okeydokey, hf bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ochosi: hf
<bluesabre> ;)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I'm trying to submit a bug for xfpanel-switch but LP won't take it. I must be doing something wrong.
<jjfrv8> anyway, the gist of it is if I add a launcher to the panel from Whisker, save config, remove launcher, restore config - launcher is blank.
<jjfrv8> and there is still the problem flocullant reported the other day: the Save Configuration and Cancel buttons don't close the dialog.
<jjfrv8> I installed it from the staging ppa.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: reported it for you ;) https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1484548
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1484548 in Xfce Panel Switch "Newly added launchers don't get backuped properly" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> feel free to report the other one flocculant mentioned, gotta run for now
<ochosi> bbl
<flocculant> reported that bug 1484575
<ubottu> bug 1484575 in Xfce Panel Switch "Buttons don't close the dialogue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1484575
<flocculant> and also bug 1484568
<ubottu> bug 1484568 in Xfce Panel Switch "Panel doesn't start after applying " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1484568
<flocculant> ochosi: do we want xfpanel switch bugs added to the bug blueprint? 
<knome> ochosi, no, your memory fails you, it was ubottu 
<knome> ochosi, eh, Unit193 
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+junk/xfpanel-switch-debian/revision/3 that's not technically accurate, nor is that how you'd do that. :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think we should make the columns in xfpanel-switch both sortable (i have a patch for that which i can push if you agree)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i've also worked on improving the modified time to be more readable (aka "yesterday", "today" etc)
<ochosi> bluesabre: lemme know what you think about that one too
<ochosi> naturally it's a bunch of ifs ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: one more: i set a default sort order to show the latest backup first
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you're fine with all of that, i'll push the button
<ochosi> ok, decided to go for MR after all...
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-14
<bluesabre> Unit193: that was in prep for next (.1 release) and yeah, I see the screwup one line below it
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Remove the whole section, it'll be covered under *
<Unit193> And goooood.
<bluesabre> mhm
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193: feel free to make any enhancements, you have write access because I trust you ;)
<Unit193> Not with the python stuff. :D
<knome> good day flocculant 
<flocculant> hi knome 
<x-1337> hey
<Jumpman> hello
<Jumpman> I installed xubuntu on my laptop via flash drive, I used UNetbootin to create the bootable drive. After install I restart, and it says "No bootable device". How can I fix this?
<krytarik> Jumpman: Support is in #xubuntu.
<bluesabre> good evening all
<ochosi> bluesabre: alright, i tend to agree with Unit193 though: with python stuff i'd rather have your review ;)
<ochosi> but good to see you liked the patches and approved them
<Unit193> I..Not precisely what I said, you still win with Python.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-15
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure :)
<bluesabre> working on catfish currently, should have the sidebar working tonight/tomorrow morning
<bluesabre> ochosi: thoughts?  Trying something new with the sidebar, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jme0KHtaIfM&feature=youtu.be
<bluesabre> knome: what do you think about the video I posted above?  Icons <-> checkboxes seem nice or nah?
<flocculant> looks good to me 
<knome> bluesabre, i'll look at it in the next hour or so
<bluesabre> knome: alrighty
<knome> not ba
<knome> d
<knome> what's the current visualization?
<bluesabre> knome: http://i.imgur.com/LllzRZf.png
<knome> yeah, the new one is better
<knome> i'm wondering if something like making the unselected items less contrasty is viable
<knome> when something *is* selected, that is
<bluesabre> considered bolding selected items
<knome> mhm
<knome> but then i think all the items should be bolded by default
<knome> if you follow my logic
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> not sure if that would look good
<bluesabre> it'd seem more inconsistent compared to other apps
<knome> :)
<knome> definitely
<krytarik> knome: Done - https://code.launchpad.net/~krytarik/xubuntu-docs/control/+merge/268160
<Unit193> ochosi, ochosi, ochosi, ochosi, ochosi, knome, bluesabre: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167 (I dun "emailed" you too about this, mhmm!)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-16
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think your ochosi-lock might be on
<bluesabre> Unit193: as far as I can tell, that looks good! :)
<Unit193> Unless it doesn't. :D
<Unit193> Yye.
<Unit193> There's actually 3 total.
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> if you need me to try to review anything, let me know
<bluesabre> but its my bedtime, so it'd be tomorrow
<bluesabre> g'night
<ochosi> bluesabre: that sidebar looks awesome, rly nice work!
<ochosi> Unit193: sorry too afk atm for reviews
<ochosi> might be out until at least tomorrow or the day after ror reasons previously disclosed, but which i dont wanna repeat here
<ochosi> all who need to know know already
<ochosi> keeping private a bit private and all ;)
<ochosi> so yeah, off for some afk time
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi 
<knome> heeey, i added a logo to the tracker today! :D
<ochosi> wee
<ochosi> i guess we have to celebrate, eh? ;)
<ochosi> slickyma1ter: friendly reminder: please schedule a meeting! :)
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<bluesabre> hey knome 
<ochosi> hey sean!
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<bluesabre> screenshot time
<ochosi> weeee
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/w39zw21.png
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/7O8ZRxq.png
<ochosi> nice work!
<bluesabre> I think its a lot nicer (and simpler) than the dialogs that were previously there
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> much better
<ochosi> feels "lighter"
<ochosi> btw, greybird's fault the cog-button isn't pressed?
<bluesabre> no, a bit of hackiness there...
<ochosi> oh ok, i hoped you would say that ;)
<bluesabre> using a treeview, and embedding a button in a treeview is more annoying than one might imagine
<ochosi> oh wow, yeah
<ochosi> i thought you weren't using a treeview there
<bluesabre> so there is a hidden widget under each where the popovers are attached
<bluesabre> I tried using a listview, but its signal management is horrible
<ochosi> wowza
<ochosi> yeah, last i heard was the listview
<ochosi> anyway, this is *so* much nicer
<ochosi> that hover effect really is awesome
<bluesabre> faster too, both the calendar and extensions entry apply instantly now
<ochosi> only tiny oddness (if i may pixel-nitpick) is that the radio button doesnt look horizontally centered
<ochosi> it might be off by 1 or 2px
<ochosi> to the left, compared to the checkbox
<ochosi> (or the other icons)
<bluesabre> possibly
<ochosi> could also be greybird's fault (again)
<bluesabre> I'll take a look, but that might be a fix in 1.3.1
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> surely
<bluesabre> trying to get a functional thing out today/tomorrow :)
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense for FF :)
<ochosi> another thing i wanted to suggest
<ochosi> if nothing is found, a centered huge-font label would be nice
<ochosi> instead of the tiny statusbar
<bluesabre> I can see that
<bluesabre> I'll try to work that it
<ochosi> and before anything is entered into the searchbar, that huge-font label could say what the tooltip of the searchbox says now
<ochosi> (and byebye tooltip)
<bluesabre> yeah, that sounds like a nice improvement
<ochosi> and for 1.3.1 i'll work out some visual improvements for those calendar widgets
<ochosi> i mean it's nice, and a good improvement over the status quo
<bluesabre> mhm
<ochosi> but i'm sure it could look a little nicer (which is partly greybird's fault, no calendar popover theming)
<ochosi> hm, also, is an "ok" button or anything not needed in that popover?
<ochosi> (or actually both)
<bluesabre> and we might want to add theming for Popover > CheckButton
<bluesabre> no ok button needed, and they're kind of wrong in a popover
<ochosi> mhm, you mean for the menu?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'll eventually do that the right way... but it does currently look normal in numix and adwaita fwiw :)
<ochosi> hm, alright, i'll take a look
<ochosi> heh, ok :
<ochosi> )
<ochosi> i'll fix that then
<ochosi> what about the view-switcher?
<ochosi> does that one work in adwaita/numix?
<ochosi> i felt the hover was a bit off
<ochosi> (hover for the full row is a bit weird)
<ochosi> also, is all you showed in the video pushed so i can look and fix greybird some more?
<bluesabre> one sec, I'll push what I have currently
<bluesabre> pushed
<ochosi> ok, pulled
<bluesabre> I can probably disable the hover style for the view-switcher in the code
<ochosi> i'll see what makes sense there first
<ochosi> frankly:
<ochosi> when clicking custom, that popover should immediately pop up
<ochosi> the cog feels a bit too much
<ochosi> same with "other"
<bluesabre> makes sense
<bluesabre> should be an easy fix... anything else?
<ochosi> ctrl+q as quit shortcut? :)
<ochosi> crap, the popover really does look fairly normal with adwaita
<ochosi> meh, and numix
<ochosi> oh i see...
<bluesabre> will do
<bluesabre> stepping out to get some food now, bbabl
<ochosi> ok, so some indicator as to how to enter the file extensions would be great too
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> now i see the empty label
<ochosi> that looks ok
<ochosi> bluesabre: pushed fix for popover menu
<ochosi> should look ok now with greybird
<ochosi> hopefully no drawbacks or regressions for that fix
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-15
<flocculant> no yak iso's currently
<akxwi-dave> morning all... any reason why there hasn't been a build since saturday.. or shall I just request a rebuild..
<akxwi-dave> ran the rebuild anyway
<akxwi-dave> the iso failed to rebuild again..
<knome> 09:52  flocculant: no yak iso's currently
<knome> akxwi-dave, you definitely need a screen :)
<davmor2> knome: or tmux :)
<knome> whatever you fancy
<knome> did you poke pleia2 already?
<davmor2> byobu is my personal favourite :)
<akxwi-dave> :-)  funny thing is I set up a raspberry pi machine to run irc While i was on  holiday, came back and found that my dearest daugther had unplugged the ower supply to charge her bloody phone.. and  didn't plugit back in..
<knome> that happens
<akxwi-dave> need to sort something a bit more permament
<knome> poke pleia2 
<knome> :)
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<davmor2> akxwi-dave: tape your daughters hand in bubble wrap so she can't unplug things without you knowing? no.......oh I see you meant a permanent server not a solution for your daughter ;)
<akxwi-dave> lol.. would love too.. but as shes a medical secretary, she'll need them for typing
<knome> pleia2, a team member asked me about @xubuntu.org email addresses, how do you feel about those again?
<pleia2> knome: still pretty meh
<knome> was the argument "IS is slow"?
<pleia2> we'd have to talk to IS to see if they'd provide such a service
<knome> they have @ubuntustudio.org ones
<pleia2> even my @ubuntu.com address seems to be a bit unreliable of late (I didn't get an email from flocculant a while back)
<knome> my question is if they offer us authenticating smtp so we can actually use those for sending
<knome> because without that, it's pretty moot IMO
<pleia2> ah, so better than the @ubuntu.com forwards
<knome> i don't know if US has that
<knome> but if we set the email forwards up, that's my requirement
<pleia2> IS? I don't know either
<knome> because without that, it's just the same as @ubuntu.com
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> (eg. i won't use it, because i don't need yet another alias)
<pleia2> and it would be lovely to see more of our team members become Ubuntu members ;)
<knome> or - dump alias at least
<pleia2> all of them can on their Xubuntu work alone
<knome> well, we have a council soon, maybe we can set up team delegation as well
<knome> btw, staging.xubuntu.org is fun
<knome> lots of deprecation messages
<pleia2> yeah, that would be the php7 upgrade
<pleia2> you're welcome :P
<knome> no worries
<knome> i'll just set WP_DEBUG to FALSE
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but facepalm
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> try to stretch the window to a wide onw
<knome> *one
<knome> on the front page
<knome> and see what happens to the content right below the menu
<knome> actually you can do that on the main site too
<knome> "oops"
<knome> fixing that next...
<pleia2> only the top section is stretchy?
<knome> yes
<knome> it shouldn't
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> at least *that* stretchy
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> meh, i hate .profile's default
<knome> # set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
<knome> if [ -d "$HOME/bin" ] ; then
<knome> who would want ~/bin ? i always use ~/.bin
<pleia2> I use ~/bin
<knome> i don't want more visible directories in my home as needed
<pleia2> I don't know why people would use .bin :)
<knome> because it nicely hides the directory you only ever touch once a month or two
<knome> or maybe not even that often
<knome> ...it could add both :P
<pleia2> I don't think .bin is a common convention
<knome> it's your home, who cares about conventions there? (:
<pleia2> defaults in config files
<knome> you can create a silly directory structure there anyway
<knome> oh well
<knome> fortunately i can edit .profile
<pleia2> indeed
<knome> i just always forget the silly defaults :P
<knome> pleia2, another question related to website
<knome> pleia2, people have asked us why we don't offer the 14.04 downloads on the website any more
<knome> pleia2, from my POV, there's no reason to install 14.04 now as there's a newer LTS out; those who *NEED* it can find it elsewhere
<knome> pleia2, any objections to that, eg. should we offer 14.04 still, maybe from a subpage?
<pleia2> I replied to someone asking on G+ (they also asked on Twitter) saying that we don't want to promote an LTS that will be gone in less than 8 months, and that it's still available if you search through the iso archives anyway
<knome> yeah, that's pretty much my opinion as well
<knome> basically you can get *any* version you want after a simple search
<pleia2> yeah
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: btw - not just us not building - affecting kubuntu and kylin too - some issue with python3-aptdaemon.pkcompat, got same thing locally now I did an upgrade 
<flocculant> lost printer as well :)
<knome> eh, lost xorg.conf on update
<knome> well upgrade :P
<knome> but i want to keep it
<knome> otherwise i'd have to reconnect my display cables and that's too much work...
<knome> (not every time, once)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-16
<Unit193> pleia2: There's also ~/.local/bin/
<flocculant> no images again Dave :)
<Unit193> [04:37:30] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Unapproved: accepted xserver-xorg-video-intel [source] (xenial-proposed) [2:2.99.917+git20160325-1ubuntu1.1]
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> just saw the email
<ochosi> (from the lp bug)
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v3.20.0
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 20 updates, showing the latest 3
<flocculant> ochosi: wonder how many people affected will comment the verification tag :p
<astraljava> ochosi: flocculant: Are you referring to the intel driver bug? I just noticed it as well, will have to enable -proposed for that.
<pleia2> if we only get one nomination, do we get an XPL again? :D
<akxwi-dave> dave nominates Pleia2
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<pleia2> I need to sleep sometimes probably /o\
<akxwi-dave> You can do that on the flight to Philly  :-)
<pleia2> lol
<akxwi-dave> only been their twice.. god how big is that airport
<akxwi-dave> there*
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 4 updates, showing the latest 3
<pleia2> knome: we got a pair of really nice #LoveXubuntu submissions :)
<pleia2> knome: there's still that one in the queue, what are we doing with it?
<flocculant> pleia2: if we only get 1 nomination then I guess you all go to wing and a prayer :)
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - can we possibly social media the intel test please :) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2016-August/009560.html
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> flocculant: oh, should this fix the missing cursor thing for everyone?
<flocculant> pleia2: for xenial evryone's yea :)
<pleia2> \o/
<flocculant> if anyone else has a problem *shrug*
<pleia2> ok, people on the social media will be excited, so I'll have to craft this carefully
<flocculant> pleia2: yea for sure it's \o/
<flocculant> pleia2: I guess 'we need to test AND comment at bug # or it won't be released - no stories at bug please' :p
 * pleia2 nods
<flocculant> one of the times it would have been really helpful if ubuntu was affected ;)
<pleia2> ok, posted on twitter, fb and g+
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: I believe the intel thing affects you - you might want to check out -proposed
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks <3
<pleia2> my cursor survived suspend \o/
<flocculant> \o/
 * flocculant checks the bug ...
<flocculant> lol
<pleia2> my comment is there :)
<flocculant> thanks pleia2 :)
<flocculant> knome: at https://launchpad.net/~knome is display name your name or is name your name? 
<flocculant> launchpad succeeds in confusing the old man :p
<flocculant> or pleia2 ^^ :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi: what's going on with bug 1598316 then?
<ubottu> bug 1598316 in gtk2-engines-murrine (Ubuntu) "gtk2-engines-murrine desktop text shadow problem" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598316
<flocculant> some update lands and screws things up - how does that get allowed? 
<flocculant> what can we do now? 
<flocculant> pretty sure I've had this discussion lol 
 * flocculant commented at bug
<flocculant> got a reply - which I replied to - perhaps a comment from ochosi or bluesabre there
<ochosi> flocculant: i'll reply to jeremy (again) and state that the bug is not fixed anywhere
<ochosi> i think it was an oversight that it landed
<ochosi> and the most likely way this is going to get fixed is if someone bisects murrine and finds the offending commit
<ochosi> as it is fairly unmaintained, there shouldn't be too many updates and it shouldn't be too hard
<flocculant> ochosi: kind of got some response - apparently it was an SRU *shrug*
<flocculant> which I obviously knew nothing about 
<flocculant> seems xubuntu-bugs doesn't get those murrine bugs
<flocculant> maybe worth dealing with perhaps
<flocculant> ochosi: also - I know you've been replying there - I'd not blocked *that* bug, just the intel one :D
<flocculant> was getting messages faster than I could read lol
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - left -release and murrine to you to argue technically]
<knome> flocculant, "Pasi Lallinaho" is my display name
<knome> flocculant, if you go to your own page and press "Change details" it's very obvious :)
<flocculant> knome: well that's where I went :)
<ochosi> hmm, nice, the regression potential for the murrine patch was noticed quite early on: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk2-engines-murrine/+bug/1294699/comments/19
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1294699 in gtk2-engines-murrine (Ubuntu Xenial) "Xubuntu desktop crashes in call to cairo after setting fixed-width bitmap (pcf) GTK font" [Medium,Fix released]
<ochosi> just went on to be ignored
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm
<flocculant> which perhaps adds weight to us ading that package as one of ours
<ochosi> hm, well it certainly affects us quite a lot (as long as xfce is all gtk2)
<knome> s/all/partly/
<ochosi> but the question in this particular case is what is more important, visual noise or the crash/es that was fixed
<flocculant> ochosi: well
<ochosi> and anyway, the best avenue would be to fix the fix
<flocculant> of course
<flocculant> but the QA issue being we didn't know about SRU
<flocculant> well - originally :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: not sure what time you'll be about - iso's not building due to issue with some apt python package, there was talk in -release a few hours ago - perhaps you could check that out
<flocculant> seems the same issue is kicking out printer unless you install packagekit - at least I appeared to need to add that to get printer(s)
<Unit193> I should likely clarify, I accepted under the presumption I wouldn't be the only one on the council. :P
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> what about all the 192 other units?
<Unit193> Not enough room in the council.
<knome> :)
<Unit193> Erm, anyone else hit exo?
<knome> happy to see Unit193 being nominated
<Unit193> knome: Because you're silly.
 * knome dances the silly dance
<knome> nah, even if we don't consider the fact we're silly :P
<knome> we didn't mention in the XSD whether the candidates need to list any information and future plans
<knome> but maybe that's not exactly needed now as the potential candidate group is people who are active anyway
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heeey, so upgrading exo kind of screws the env.
<ochosi> Unit193: rly? what happens?
<ochosi> i built and installed it locally, all seemed well
<Unit193> ochosi: Check the output of `env`, $HOME is unset in new terminals.
<ochosi> oh fun
<Unit193> (Note, didn't restart because shouldn't have to. :P )
<ochosi> well i'm not sure how that would happen
<ochosi> but then again i dont have the exo changelog in my head
<ochosi> so i'll leave it to bluesabre, conveniently
<Unit193> I pulled the one from xfce4-gtk3.
<ochosi> it wasn#t there yet when i tested it
<ochosi> i think i'm still using it
<Unit193> dpkg -l | grep exo
<ochosi> 0.11.0
<Unit193> (As in, all packages are there, -helpers, etc.)
<ochosi> Unit193: 0.11.0-0ubuntu1 for all packages
<Unit193> ochosi: 1. Did you reboot?  2. `env` looks good?
<ochosi> i guess i did meanwhile...
<ochosi> but i don't remember what i did when i built it
<ochosi> env looks good to me
<Unit193> Time to poke a VM.
<ochosi> anything in particular (apart from HOME) that i should be looking at?
<Unit193> As long as it's about ~70 lines rather than about ~13, you're good. :P
 * ochosi starts counting the lines...
<bluesabre> my env is fine
<knome> o hai bluesabre 
<bluesabre> I'd imagine xfce4-session would be a more likely culprit
<bluesabre> hi knome
<Unit193> bluesabre: Downgrading fixed it.
<bluesabre> Unit193: well, that makes it look like the bad guy :D
<bluesabre> I wonder what the trigger is
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> i think i had heard of that before
<Unit193> Still might help to restart the session, but downgrading is nicer right now.  Trying it in VM of ocurse.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> I have exo-0.10.7 installed for -1
<bluesabre> and 0.11.0 for -2
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> fun
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i have 0.11.0 for everything ;)
<ochosi> and things are still fine
<bluesabre> I'll poke around and see if I find anything
<Unit193> VM did the same thing.
<bluesabre> rebooting now
<Unit193> Just restarting lightdm. P
<Unit193> ...Now rebooting.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Does this depend on newer xfconf or something?
<bluesabre> Unit193: nope
<bluesabre> Unit193: and yep, env is trashed for apps launched from whisker
<Unit193> Rebooting the VM fixed nothing.
<bluesabre> fine from keyboard-shortcut launched apps
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre> and in indicator applet is dead
<ochosi> ouch
<ochosi> never noticed, i always use kb shortcuts
<bluesabre> so thats fun
<bluesabre> I'll try to work on that tonight :)
<Unit193> I don't have whisker, used kb to open it...
<Unit193> TTY is good. :P
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbl
<Unit193> Fixitfixitfixitifixit!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Eat well.
<knome> the dinner?
<bluesabre> got my env back
<bluesabre> indicator and systray applets still dead :(
<bluesabre> Unit193: this commit is suspect: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=9155cf5703c54f79e3bf76b6f5da2f4475ee7844
<Unit193> bluesabre: You broke the PPA, but that's OK because I did too with xfconf. :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> we'll fix it
<bluesabre> .really4.12.1
<Unit193> Oh gosh.. :P
<Unit193> ...I thought about trying to delete the PPA and then re-add everything else back, buuut. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> D:
<Unit193> (Because that's the exact version of xfconf that will work, once the panel or whatever is patched.)
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> almost certain its that commit now
<bluesabre> specifically
<bluesabre>        /* try to run the command */
<Unit193> Well, that'd be easy to test+revert.
<bluesabre> -      succeed = gdk_spawn_on_screen (screen, NULL, argv, NULL, G_SPAWN_DO_NOT_REAP_CHILD | G_SPAWN_SEARCH_PATH, NULL, NULL, &pid, &err);
<bluesabre> +      succeed = g_spawn_async (NULL, argv, envp, G_SPAWN_DO_NOT_REAP_CHILD | G_SPAWN_SEARCH_PATH, NULL, NULL, &pid, &err);
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> playing with it now
<bluesabre> seemingly the correct way to do it https://osdir.com/ml/commits.gnome/2011-01/msg11044.html
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-17
<bluesabre> Unit193: you around?
<Unit193> no.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> I'll check back later then
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I have a fix for exo... wondering if you wanted to test it yourself, https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=f016e39ba009e3cfa66c82af9394cae7951e6916
<Unit193> Fine, fine. :(
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, so without re-logging or rebooting, seems no longer able to reproduce error just opening a terminal.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/rWxn5Up2EdlsaA7hmssP/ FWIW.
<flocculant> Unit193: they appear to be ignoring you re core ... 
<Unit193> Big news, been doing that past few cycles.
<flocculant> :)
<knome> Unit193, i've pinged infinity re: core/base again, as we're still waiting for actions from him
<knome> akxwi-dave, btw, do you still plan to keep using the qa tab on the tracker during next cycle?
<akxwi-dave> yep.. if possible
<knome> of course :)
<knome> i was just checking
<knome> and as i've said before, if there is something i can help with... please ask and we'll see what's realistic :)
<akxwi-dave> will do mate
<knome> cheers
<knome> (^ not only related to tracker)
<bluesabre> (^ true statement)
<knome> :D
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hello knome and akxwi-dave 
<akxwi-dave> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193: new exo released, package in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3 (just don't grab the xfconf from there)
<Unit193> :3
<knome> :)
<knome> hello ochosi too
 * ochosi is just lurking
<knome> we know, we know...
<bluesabre> :D
<nairwolf> Hi, I receveid a mail saying that my membership in the Xubuntu Testers is due to expire. I've renewed this membership but I wanted to understand why I've received this mail ? Is it automatic, or is it because 'something' has detected I wasn't active ? 
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers/+members which do you think? ;)
<knome> everybody is set to expire from 6 months after they register
<knome> err, 6 months from
<knome> or -from
<Unit193> bluesabre: Debian #834652
<ubottu> Debian bug 834652 in src:mugshot "mugshot: typos in debian/rules (override_dh_installchanglogs -> override_dh_installchangelogs)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/834652
<Unit193> Heh, two different ways you used to spell it, neither are right. :D
<nairwolf> so, it's a good thing ;)
<Unit193> Normal at least.
<nairwolf> to send a mail every six months ;)
<knome> the goal is to have the most up-to-date list of people who test xubuntu, so yes, that should be useful
<nairwolf> and it's a good reminder
<knome> exactly that's why it's useful
<Unit193> "Hey are you still doing this?"  "No I suck as a tester"
<knome> *schmuck*
<knome> when you renew, you at least subscribe yourself for another batch of reminders and requests for testing
<knome> which is good too
<nairwolf> Yeah, that's the perfect timing because I was planning to install from scratch yakkety tonight
<Unit193> xfce4-notifyd: spelling-error-in-binary usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/xfce4/notifyd/xfce4-notifyd Faild Failed  :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-18
<knome> hah
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/279529126/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.xfce4-notifyd_0.3.0-0ppa1+gtk3~16.04_BUILDING.txt.gz very helpful...
<Unit193> knome: Or, it's a new daemon, faild! :D
<knome> mm, intriguing!
<Unit193> g_warning ("Faild to parse css file : %s\n", error->message);  Oooooh nice stop to have it...
<knome> not error->massage at least
<Unit193> Dial that colon back too while you're at it.
<knome> yeah.
<Unit193> g_warning ("Failed to export interface: %s", error->message);  and remove \n?  I dunno! :D
<knome> depends on the context i guess
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/AWpwBfQ00IymiGnQQaSR/ :>
<knome> Mogwai - Dial Revenge (Welsh - English version)
<knome> INTRO
<knome> no?
<knome> what just happened
<Unit193> :D
<knome> i guess some weird middle-click paste
<knome> though i didn't know i had that in clipboard
<Unit193> bluesabre, ochosi: Got all the panel plugins that have had GTK3 releases in my staging repo now.
<Unit193> ochosi: Plz2upd8?  https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.14/roadmap  exo had a release and so did eyes.  Oh, and if you'd make releases of notes and clipman we could break more. :D
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks, pushed
<Unit193> ochosi: Copied a bunch of panel plugins over thanks to Dave's testing.
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> i'll give them a shot
<ochosi> btw, what about the notes release? that has had gtk3 support for quite a while
<ochosi> the only thing it needs is fixing for gtk3.20
<ochosi> that will likely horribly break it
<Unit193> 1. We have 3.20 now, so it'd be broken.  2. Thought we were waiting on a release. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: Wasn't there a patch for xfce4-panel that unbroke xfconf?  Do shimmer themes have fixes for the xfce4-notifyd breakage?
<ochosi> i don't know of such a patch
<ochosi> one would have to get in touch with ali and ask him to fix it or provide a patch
<ochosi> the notifyd breakage is covered by the latest greybird release
<ochosi> in numix the .osd class will be used
<ochosi> so the notifications will look ok and integrated, maybe not as before though
<ochosi> so it's not real breakage
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should maybe take a look at this one (it's a bit annoying) https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1306362
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1306362 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "AccountsService conflicts with configured logon background" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<bluesabre> ochosi: that file is for defaults, I think there might be a config option to disable user wallpaper
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Oh crap, bluesabre time already. ._.
<bluesabre> bluesabre time
<bluesabre> can't touch this
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm maybe i didnt read the bugreport correctly then. what i get here is the flashing of the user wallpaper for a second and then the system wallpaper takes over
<bluesabre> ah, didn't read the comments (since thats not where bug reports go for something closed years ago)
<knome> ochosi, i think i get that too
<knome> ochosi, it worked once with some boot not a long time ago
<knome> ochosi, but then it reverted back to old behavior
<knome> though i haven't done any special config..
<knome> and i'm on intel
<ochosi> same here
<knome> do you have a black blink?
<knome> that's the most annoying part
<knome> it also denies you from inputting stuff during that
<knome> so practically i just have to wait for that to happen...
<ochosi> yup
<knome> yup
<knome> then sounds like the same bug
<ochosi> i'd say so, yes
<knome> so is the fix committed/released status real?
<ochosi> well we have the same bug, it's not really the one reported, only the final comment is
<knome> okay
<knome> should one of us file the bug then
<knome> or in other words, are you doing it now? if not, i can do it
<ochosi> please do so, am prepping lunch
<knome> against the greeter?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> on it
<knome> bug 1614474
<ubottu> bug 1614474 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "After showing the user wallpaper, greeter blinks and reverts to default wallpaper" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614474
<knome> feel free to confirm
<knome> and linked to our bugs blueprint
<bluesabre> definitely does not affect me
<knome> intel?
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> or nvidia
<knome> weird
<knome> i actually think i might have this on both
<knome> but i'm not completely sure about nvidia
<knome> i should check the next time i boot desktop
<ochosi> bluesabre: lucky you
<bluesabre> not so
<ochosi> i also have this consistently on pretty much all my machines
<bluesabre> it's hard to fix what I can't reproduce ;)
<bluesabre> these days I depend on patches for most fixes
<bluesabre> but I'll take a look
<bluesabre> I think the greeter might not even build with current gtk
<ochosi> yeah, that's possible
<ochosi> i'm using it with gtk3.20 but it was built against 3.18
<ochosi> that combination works
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess you have to update the progress percentage on exo on the roadmap page, i have no clue about that :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: will do
<bluesabre> ochosi: there are some dialogs that exo creates, dunno if you want to go in and make sure they don't look bad (using gtk defaults, soooooo)
<bluesabre> bbl
<bluesabre> and I think I want to revive the xfce python bindings so I can rewrite less code in python :D
<bluesabre> really bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: python bindings would be awesome!
<ochosi> and yeah, can take a look at the dialogs i guess
<Unit193> ochosi: Also, know why notifyd didn't compile on Xenial?
<bluesabre> grumpy notifications?
<ochosi> Unit193: no?
<Unit193> OK, juuuust figured I'd ask.  Copying it over.
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> well there is an open bugreport against building with gtk<3.20
<Unit193> (Basically, you know more Xfce4 happenings than I do, this is bleeding edge.)
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12737
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12737 in general "gtk+-3.18.9 build failure: *** No rule to make target 'themes/gtk-3.0/Default/gtk.css'" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> That's the one.
<ochosi> but gaston had no issues with it
<ochosi> maybe go and poke him
<Unit193> But he's scary! :3
<ochosi> last time i tried i didn't get the right answer
<ochosi> but i was likely not asking the right question
<ochosi> iirc he said something about the patches that gentoo carries
<ochosi> do we have patches against notifyd in ubuntu as well?
<ochosi> maybe something needs refreshing (just an idea)
<Unit193> No patches, and that'd have failed yakkety too.  It is having xdt-autogen run as part of the build process.
<ochosi> hmm, not sure then
<ochosi> haven't had time to look into the issue myself yet
<ochosi> then again i'm not sure i'd know exactly what to look for
<Unit193> Well, certainly like the GTK2 one better, but it does function, so over it goes.
<ochosi> what exactly is more to like?
<ochosi> i see almost no difference between the gtk2 and the gtk3 vresion
<ochosi> anyway, i'll see whether i can find someone who can help with this issue
<Unit193> The settings, just typical GTK3 stuff so doesn't matter.  Of course there's only Somke, Default, and ZOMG, I'm sure more themes will come later. :)
<ochosi> if you figure it out lemme know and submit a patch
<ochosi> yeah, i'm working on it (see my blog post)
<ochosi> already ported over the two greybird themes
<ochosi> i'll move those to upstream notifyd (since it was the initial idea to ship with a few more default themes)
<ochosi> and add at least a third one
<ochosi> anyway, time to get some sleep
<Unit193> Didn't notice the huge preview button that goes across the entire dialog?  I like the older style tickers, but meh.  (I'm really only going to hold the old one due to themes, because it's not like you see the settings dialog enough to annoy you.)
<Unit193> Sleep well.
<ochosi> yeah, i made it look that way, i still think that's ok though
<ochosi> (and has nothing to do with gtk3)
<ochosi> anyway, it's possible i'll redo the settings dialog, at least once i work on per-app settings or dont-disturb mode
<Unit193> (GTK3 stuff is the dropdown box, newer ticker style, and generally bigger dialog, fwiw.  Anywho, not my point.)
<ochosi> what dropdown box?
<ochosi> at least here comboboxes look exactly as they did in gtk2...
<Unit193> Really?  I'm using Numix on both, should be the same...
<ochosi> with greybird they do
<ochosi> anyway, night now (for realz)
<knome> for lulz!
<Unit193> knome: I'm not even close to able to get rid of py2.
<knome> huh
<bluesabre> ochosi: I know it's not on the xfce 4.14 roadmap, but I think porting and working with every component is a good chance to clean up interfaces and collect around some standards
<bluesabre> maybe put some mini-hig basics in the wiki or something to that extent
<bluesabre> (not #xfce-dev but xfce-devish stuff)
<Unit193> sidi loves doing that. >_>
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-19
<flocculant> no images again
<flocculant> buildlog here says it built https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/yakkety/xubuntu
<flocculant> log here says it didn't http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/yakkety/
<flocculant> all that give is perhaps warning reading apt/preferences.d *shrug*
<flocculant> let's see if it rebuilds 
<flocculant> if not perhaps someone could ask Dave to go asking in -release
<ochosi> bluesabre: re:hig you mean something like this? https://wiki.xfce.org/dev/hig/general
<ochosi> but yeah, it needs updating
<ochosi> and i totally agree on the binding and cleanup stuff
<ochosi> definitely a good chance since we're touching so many components
<Unit193> A wild ochosi appears!  Also noticed after you disappeared that you actually comitted my patch to xfce4-notifyd. :3
<Unit193> Thanks? :D
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, daily images are up now..
<bluesabre> ochosi: definitely needs updating as the very lengthy and useful gnome hig 2.0 has been replaced with the short and sweet 3.0
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, If you get chance can you try one of todays ISO's  when installed getting a language support not installed error.. Network icon showing grey out, but saying connected, not internet access thru web browser or pinging from terminal.. Maybe a Vbox thing not sure.. going to try with VMware..
<akxwi-dave> same with vmware
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: will try one now
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: re images I rebuilt - and got enough time to check they booted prior to work
<flocculant> still not sure what happened, though I suspect it was just some transient LP tomfoolery
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: when you install - do you notice the 'Skip' button wandering back and forwards at the end of the text string telling what the installer is up to
<flocculant> ?
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: can confirm those bugs 
<flocculant> quickly grabbing ubuntu iso to check - I'd guess this will be one of those (hopefully)
<akxwi-dave> hi mate, sorry back from lunch..  yes can confirm the skip button thing
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> just booting ubuntu now
<akxwi-dave> lol noticed you rebuilt them, when originally checked tehy weren't showing on tracker,, then around 5 mins later were.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> pretty sure this is going to fail - had to tell installer London
<akxwi-dave> also just to let yo know, usually out at lunch bewteen 12 and 1 just incase you need me at that time
<flocculant> yea I knew times sort of - but as you're in channel can read later - my lunch is whenever I stop :)
<akxwi-dave> I can confirm the london one a s well it had me in US
<flocculant> yea - no network on live does that 
<akxwi-dave> ahhh..
<akxwi-dave> I'll remember that one
<flocculant> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/n/network-manager/network-manager_1.2.2-0ubuntu8/changelog
<flocculant> perhaps :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: did you chnge US to london?
<akxwi-dave> yep
<akxwi-dave> one the 386 version anyway
<flocculant> I did with ubuntu - no incomplete language there *shrug* can't remember what I did with us
<flocculant> anyway I'll ping pitti in -release re his changes
<akxwi-dave> on the amd version I just left as is
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> ok - asking in -release now, back off out now - back later :)
<akxwi-dave> cya later mate
<flocculant> we shall see what they say :p
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: iso *should* be ok next build
<akxwi-dave> cheers.. aye saw their comments earlier :-)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah then again another boring doc to write that potentially nobody will read/follow. i mean after all it didn't seem like you knew the xfce hig by heart or anything ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: well thanks for the patch! :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I was aware of it, but remembered that there was very little anything layout-related in it
<bluesabre> ochosi: but yeah, I understand where you're coming from
<bluesabre> ochosi: buuuuut, technically the gnome hig it currently links to will create apps that do not look like gtk2 apps ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-20
<flocculant> ochosi: are you sure *we* should be seeing a blue outline on password boxes ? looks a bit odd with greybird imo
<flocculant> ochosi: rather in yakkety the blue outline is a lot bigger than it is in xenial
<flocculant> if anyone is running yakkety - don't update ... 
<flocculant> updated my yak install - get no desktop - not a thing ... no alt+f2 to try and get things running
<flocculant> thought it was just *that* install
<flocculant> did a clean install of yak from an oldish iso, updated and boom - same thing 
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23072451/ doesn't appear to be anything of ours which has caused it
<flocculant> bluesabre: dailies are a bit meh atm - and ubuntu isn't :(
<flocculant> trying to live desktop - just blank - nothing there 
<flocculant> wonder if that could be tied up with my earlier update at yak leaving me with wallpaper only 
<flocculant> just trying an install 
<bluesabre> flocculant: that sounds terribly exciting
<sakrecoer> flocculant: oddly enough i can't find the bug i filed, i remember it be set to "private".. but i had problems installing yakkety daily on 2016-08-06.. same bug as this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1610377
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1610377 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Unable to install Daily Build of Ubuntu Studio 16.10" [Undecided,New]
<sakrecoer> after failing with the US one, i tried the xubuntu iso, and it had the same problem...
<sakrecoer> some oddness with the DE..
<flocculant> bluesabre: hugely ... 
<flocculant> sakrecoer: mmm
<sakrecoer> i mean, might not be related at all... but i thought i'd mention it...
<flocculant> sakrecoer: yea - thanks :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: so it appears that what we show at the try/install dialogue and for ubiquity when going straight to install is ok, installs apparently, reboots to login (eventually) then zilch, nada :(
<bluesabre> sounds like something somebody else broke
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> like I said earlier - can't see anything in the list of updates I got which would be us 
<bluesabre> suppose this means you get to relax this weekend and not work :D
<flocculant> might try enabling proposed on one of the 2 broken installs ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: hah - I been working - built some flapjacks and some lardy cake \o/
<flocculant> feasting on sugar today lol
<bluesabre> don't know what lardy cake is, but I know what lard is
<bluesabre> D:
<flocculant> http://plum-kitchen.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/lardy-cakeno-im-not-kidding.html
<flocculant> basically bread - with fruit and lard and sugar in it - then when it's cooked, pour the escaped lard over the top and put a bit more sugar on it :D
<bluesabre> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwq
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: so that's a no for proposed, but not unexpected 
<flocculant> weekend off then as you said \o/
<bluesabre> flocculant: when was the last good image?
<flocculant> couple of days ago - there's been non-existent network for a day or two
<flocculant> I know that wed build was good - I installed from it - then made the mistake of upgrading it :p
<flocculant> I'm not going to rebuild ubuntu (though I could) so will see if that crashes in flames tomorrow - which would at least help us ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, heading out for now, bbabl
<flocculant> bluesabre: have a good day :)
<bluesabre> you too
<flocculant> bluesabre: Mate has same issue - no desktop after install and login - suspect all will once built 
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: fyi ^^
<Unit193> bluesabre: whisker 1.6.0 look important enough?
<Unit193> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2016-August/035152.html
<bluesabre> Unit193: the changelog sounds good at least
<flocculant> evening
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<flocculant> bluesabre: just finished checking most of the iso's - seems like only us and mate with an issue 
<bluesabre> :\
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> that said - ubuntu will be rebuilt overnight and I'll check that tomorrow
<bluesabre> k
<flocculant> my installs are still dead though
<Unit193> I thought US had a problem too?
<flocculant> and guest login 
<Unit193> flocculant: Also thanks for the warning, though I have a feeling it's too late.  I just won't reboot now. :3
<flocculant> Unit193: probably - I rarely bother with that as it's loads big and if we're dead they usually are :)
<flocculant> Unit193: good luck then :p
<bluesabre> Unit193: time for max uptime
<flocculant> I'm just glad I'd actually got around to sorting a xenial install out ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: even if ubuntu is ok - if we (and mate) are still broke monday - martin w is more likely to be around in -release :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed
<flocculant> during uk day ofc
<Unit193> Making a loooot of noise. :P
<bluesabre> which is handy dandy
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> since I can't complain while UK folks are at work
<flocculant> anyway - I'll obviously check again tomorrow morning and keep you updated on where we stand there
<bluesabre> goodie
<Unit193> flocculant: Going to poke at it in VM.
<flocculant> I'm not even sure what package to report bug against :(
<bluesabre> go for broke
<flocculant> if I knew that I could start failing tracker 
<bluesabre> "linux"
<flocculant> I guess so :D
<Unit193> 'ubuntu' :P
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<Unit193> Meh, I suppose I should get the GTK3 whisker too.
<flocculant> tracker tells people to report against syslinux if dead when booting live 
<flocculant> Unit193: I saw that pop up :)
<Unit193> Mir and lightdm updates, what could go wrong?
<Unit193> Oh, kernel and systemd too..
<bluesabre> all of the above
<flocculant> "<pitti> Laney: ooh -- you mean THINGS really, like half of -proposed" "pitti> Friday evening is the BEST time to break yakkety"
<Unit193> fwupd, gcc, binutils...  Yeah didn't hit those last night, I might be safe.
<flocculant> Unit193: those were definitely in the updates that killed mine off 
<flocculant> unless you actually read the pastebin and know that :D
<Unit193> Yeah it could be any number of things. :D
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> flocculant: I looked at it, but I didn't study it.
<flocculant> I'll hold of on reporting it against some vague package till tomorrow - but if it's still the same I suppose anything is better than nothing
<flocculant> bbl 
<Unit193> I'm a bit wondering if it is a lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter mismatch.
<flocculant> Unit193: is it only us and mate use those?
<Unit193> flocculant: Well, Xu, US, Myth, MATE.  I'm not sure if Lu does this cycle.
<flocculant> Myth is finished with iso's afaik 
<flocculant> Lu worked - so perhaps not :)
<flocculant> seems they do according to buildlog
<flocculant> and there both same versions for us and them - so wasn't some update during day
<Unit193> Still waiting on the VM, but glad it wasn't that.  Got the switch to a TTY or whatnot on upgrade, same as I had in Debian a couple days ago.
<flocculant> anyway - bbl to see what you find 
<flocculant> Unit193: see anything of note in vm?
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah, that systemd doesn't tell you much, I really miss upstart's logging to ~/.cache/upstart/.  I just bailed and went with my custom .xinitrc and startx. :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I'll have another go tomorrow
<flocculant> for now - goodnight all
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-21
<flocculant> reporting the desktop fail against xorg *shrug*
<flocculant> though I've got apport file to report against linux too
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1615338
<ubottu> bug 1615338 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Yakkety fails to start desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615338
<flocculant> added what I could to that
<Unit193> flocculant: Could edit /usr/share/xsessions/xubuntu.desktop so it launches it like it used to, not in a systemd session.
<flocculant> never had to ssh into a livesession nor a kvm guest - so that was fun and the thing I learnt today - makes the rest of the day easy \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: you mean for my dead install? 
<flocculant> I assume you mean change Exec=/usr/share/xfce4/scripts/run-systemd-session xubuntu-session.target to something else that I don't know :D
<Unit193> Exec=startxfce4
<flocculant> it's quite refreshing being in a system that doesn't need 100's Mb of updates twice a day :D
<flocculant> ok - biab
<flocculant> well I got in ok :)
<Unit193> Knew xorg wasn't right since that one works, figured it was systemd.
<flocculant> Unit193: do you mean report bug against systemd? 
<Unit193> Eh, time to poke pitti and tell him what you discovered? :P
<flocculant> well I'll start with a bug report then :D
<flocculant> "pitti - I discovered that if I did what ukikie said I've got a working desktop" :p
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<Unit193> Well he's Canonical so he'll be back Monday.
<flocculant> just set up the desktop again ...
<flocculant> yea - I'll leave him a message in -release :)
<flocculant> then hassle him when I wake up
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks :)
<Unit193> Sure thing, I suppose.
<flocculant> well then - I'm hardly likely to not thank you am I :p
<flocculant> bug 1615341 
<ubottu> bug 1615341 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Yakkety desktop fails to start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615341
<Unit193> knome: Can you auto-discard *.bid and *.stream?
<knome> Unit193, sure
<knome> i just came here to thank whoever cleared the moderation queue anyways :P
<Unit193> 'Welcome, it had a toooon of .stream ones.
<knome> yup
<Unit193> 23 to be exact.
<knome> now blocking them from both -devel and -users
<knome> and synced the other wildcards between the two too
<Unit193> Great.
<knome> fwiw, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23075033/
<Unit193> I have a log of emails and actions if you want it. :P
<knome> rather just a diff for the blocklist :P
<knome> but basically, if you see a pattern, always feel free to ping me here or send an email, and i'll happily edit the lists
<knome> makes it easier for us all
<knome> but, time to go
<knome> ttyl
<knome> and have a nice.. night?
<knome> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: laney is on the case it seems
<bluesabre> flocculant: thats good news
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup :)
<flocculant> guessing because he's running b1 from canonical side he knew it would cause mate issues :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: grabbed it from proposed, restored original xubuntu.desktop, rebooted fine :)
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks for pointing in the right direction :)
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: if you've not read backlog - network is fixed, something else broke - possibly won't land before our images build early tomorrow - so if they're still fubar - should be ok Tuesday 
<flocculant> bbl
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: cheers bud.. will keep an ee one em
<sakrecoer> greetins, may i ask if your latest daily iso installs? i tried ours today and it failed again
<flocculant> sakrecoer: nope 
<flocculant> bug 1615341
<ubottu> bug 1615341 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Yakkety desktop fails to start" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615341
<sakrecoer> flocculant: ok... but at least, it finishes installation?
<flocculant> sakrecoer: assuming you are impacted same as us - it installs but then the desktop fails on reboot
<sakrecoer> ok, well here the install doesn't even finish..
<flocculant> sakrecoer: oh hang on though - you've got issues anyway with iso builds failing
<sakrecoer> flocculant: yeah, lets hope that will do...
<sakrecoer> thank you anyways flocculant :)
<flocculant> you need to find out what's causing your issue - then get that sorted for your iso to build - afaik ross is aware of all that
<sakrecoer> thanks, yes.. lets hope he is available too :)
<sakrecoer> (note that he tends to be available... don't get me wrong :) )
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-14
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-13-1-released-tp49630.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<Unit193> knome: Anything for xubuntu-docs?  It's still at version 17.04 and FF is coming up.
<Unit193> Same for x-d-s.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-appfinder 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-appfinder-4-13-0-released-tp49632.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-15
<knome> Unit193, don't think so really, but aren't those subject to docstringfreeze anyway?
<Unit193> Sure, though before it was past time when we were uploading, so figured I'd note now.
<knome> mhm
<knome> i'll update docs in a minute
<knome> to say 17.10...
<knome> remind me in 10 if i haven't done anything
<knome> soo... probably time to split the developer documentation from the main branch too
<knome> ;)
<knome> not NOW though
<knome> but might be helpful to do it at some point
<knome> seriously, website?
<knome> hmm, wait
<knome> where does it say 17.04?
<knome> or you mean just the package?
<knome> because now i remember when i branched for artful, i edited the files so they don't mention any release
<Unit193> Just in general.
<Unit193> I still have http://paste.openstack.org/show/yJAOhPswMLNkWz9YgpCH cooking.
<knome> mhhm
<Unit193> knome: Poooke.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-16
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r637 Allow specifying at what percent to build translations. (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r638 Update Standards-Version to 4.0.1. (by Unit 193)
<Unit193> Well..
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [artful] r637 Allow specifying at what percent to build translations. (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [artful] r638 Update Standards-Version to 4.0.1. (by Unit 193)
<knome> Unit193, yyyes?
<Unit193> Already pushed.
<knome> :)
<flocculant> why does that paste include echo"Updating Tongue" ...
<flocculant> slickymaster been around thinking it means language in English again :p
<Unit193> "LINGUAS"?
<flocculant> yup
<Unit193> knome: Considered adding LINGUAS to bzrignore..
<knome> aha
<knome> wfm
<Unit193> But then I figured I should just wait until we move to git.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-17
<Unit193> Sync'd xfce4-eyes-plugin from Debian.
<knome> yay...
<knome> :)
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-eyes-plugin/news/20170816T150029Z.html :P
<Unit193> It should be a new default! :P
<knome> uff
<knome> :P
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-18
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r525 Revert previous commit... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r526 Fix theming for xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin's playback buttons... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<jamessun> Hello, I have a question concerning Xubuntu 16.04 LTS. My laptop is ASUS X554L and Fn+F5/Fn+F6 shortcuts for brightness control do not work, although I tried acpi osi solution and documentation does not mention my problem. What am I supposed to do to solve this issue?
<knome> jamessun, please do not crosspost
<knome> jamessun, the support channel is appropriate and enough
<jamessun> Sorry. Right you are.
<Unit193> xfce4-appfinder 4.13.0 says "Port to GTK+3", which doesn't make sense as it already supported GTK3.
<knome> heh
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-19
<ochosi> Unit193: shouldve probably said "drop gtk2 support" instead ;)
<Unit193> Hi.
<Unit193> Looks like pa-plug runs into issues..
<flocculant> Unit193: more than I know of?
<ochosi> Unit193: can you be a little more specific..?
<Unit193> ochosi: Hard to, not seen it myself yet.  Has to do with broken sliders, I'll have to try Sat and see if I can hit it.  https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=229046 was what someone linked.
<Unit193> flocculant: I don't know what you know. :D
<Unit193> Should be something on bz soonâ¢
<flocculant> Unit193: well that arch topic thing doesn't affect the one I have locally (blue sabre's version)
<flocculant> and what I know is it won't open players more than once 
<flocculant> now I appear to have a parole issue too :p
<ninetls> I have the same problem too
<ninetls> it seems that bug appeared after gtk 3.22.18 update
<flocculant> ninetls: which problem ;)
<ninetls> flocculant: with pa and xfpm plugins
<ninetls> I can't use slider
<ninetls> window immediately closes when I click on slider
<ninetls> only mouse wheel works
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> 3.22.17 here 
<ninetls> https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/commit/trunk?h=packages/gtk3&id=6cafe8216707449f5073768d0827e01bbeaa70c3
<ninetls> they reverted one commit
<ninetls> but it seems that it fixes nothing
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-20
<Unit193> Debian #872687
<ubottu> Debian bug 872687 in xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin: Unable to click or use volume slider" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/872687
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786029
<ubottu> Gnome bug 786029 in Widget: Other "clicking on gtk-slider makes the parent disappear" [Major,New]
<Unit193> !info libgtk-3-dev artful
<ubottu> libgtk-3-dev (source: gtk+3.0): development files for the GTK+ library. In component main, is optional. Version 3.22.18-1ubuntu1 (artful), package size 874 kB, installed size 10878 kB
<flocculant> Unit193: doesn't appear to be all sliders here
<flocculant> and I guess we'll need to point -desktop at that
<ochosi> oh dear, so it does seem to be a gtk3 problem then if its not just arch
<ochosi> i agree with flocculant, we should inform the desktop folks
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - definitely not just arch :)
<ochosi> although i'm not sure they'll care much, even if it affects their indicators, since they dont use them anymore...
<flocculant> probably ping jbicha in there with the bug #
<ochosi> sounds like a sane idea
<flocculant> ochosi: but - I've tried other sliders (panel for instance) and they appear to be ok
<flocculant> *shrug*
<ochosi> you mean xfpm is ok, only pa is nok?
<flocculant> yup that works ok - though you can't click somewhere along the slider
<ochosi> then it doesnt work
<ochosi> at least not fully
<ochosi> what about indicators, do those fully work?
<flocculant> ochosi: only got message indicator
<flocculant> ochosi: click on slider in volume indicator and it shuts it 
<ochosi> mhm, then its not just us
<ochosi> (altj
<ochosi> (although the indicator widget and the ones in xfpm and pa are pretty much identical)
<flocculant> ochosi: grabbing the ubuntu iso now - I'll double check that - if it boots
<flocculant> slider there works
<Unit193> flocculant: Confirm the GTK3 version?  Xfpm is GTK2, so that's why that works.
<Unit193> Also, yes it isn't just arch, first heard it from Debian.
<flocculant> ochosi: in fact for our vol slider it doesn't just shut down - it mutes it
<flocculant> Unit193: aah ok
<Unit193> flocculant: Did you fix it?
<flocculant> no - did you think I would?
<flocculant> I don't actually use the slider ... I have this big round knob on the amp I use :)
<Unit193> Re-compiling GTK3 sounds right up your ally!
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<Unit193> ....Wanna try?
<Unit193> This is extra, not Xubuntu dev asking.  You don't have to.
<flocculant> I could - though not right now - off out in a short while
<Unit193> Well it's taking a while to build, but https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging/+packages
<flocculant> Unit193: yea that works 
<Unit193> Fantastic, thanks for checking flocculant!
<Unit193> Just, uh..Don't read the changelog.
<flocculant> too late :P
<Unit193> Oh dear...In my defence, I couldn't sleep, was tired, and knew what time I had to get up. :3
<flocculant> well ... personally don't think the changelog is that bad at all - especially when nano's changelog has the latest release named Interior Sewage :D
<Unit193> debian/patches/dothestuff.patch ++
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> anyway - re discussion earlier - just point -desktop at the gnome bug and say it breaks us and we've got ppa fix ?
<flocculant> cos when it comes down to it - I suspect it'll be me doing the pinging ...
<flocculant> sometimes they ask questions and I just lalalalalalalala 
<Unit193> I thought ochosi might poke -desktop, and the PPA was to test https://bug786029.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=357334 since the author said it was untested.
<Unit193> I think I'd refrain from poking jbicha directly though.
<flocculant> works for me
<Unit193> ochosi has some background in -desktop, and might have more idea of the Xfce or GTK+3 side of things.
<flocculant> yea for sure
<ochosi> flocculant, Unit193: thanks for packaging and testing! i started by commenting on the upstream bug
<ochosi> what we really need in the end is upstream to merge it
<ochosi> i'll go poking mlcasen and carlosg directly if needed
<Unit193> Yes, though Ubuntu is a start.  Doesn't help Debian.
<ochosi> only carrying the patch in ubuntu is a sort of last-resort if we don't get it merged/released upstream early enough for 17.10
<Unit193> I was thinking of it as a first step, move it on upstream (and indeed, if Ubuntu throws it in, might have more weight behind the request.)  But yes that works too. :P
<Unit193> Specifically if it's not just a random person that's never talked to the GTK+3 devs before.
<ochosi> yeah, but i've talked to both of them before
<ochosi> and not sure whether ubuntu really adds the right kind of weight here ;)
<Unit193> Exactly, that's my point.
<Unit193> Either way, thanks for doing it.
<ochosi> no worries really. the good thing is the patch is so minimal i don't think they won't merge it
<Unit193> The last comment wasn't re-assuring, but the fact the patch was written by the same author as the breaking commit was.
<Unit193> He linked the PPA, maybe I should have tried harder. :3
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks
<Unit193> â
<Unit193> ninetls: If you want to know context. :P
<ninetls> yes, I know about regression with sliders
<ninetls> (tfw you are considered as a person who will build any shit for you just because you're using arch)
<ninetls> *for anybody
<Unit193> Not really, just wondered if you had.  It's right up your ally to do so.  As stated, I already did.
<ninetls> I'm just kidding, don't worry!
<ninetls> I can test if you want
<Unit193> All up to if you want the fix.
<Unit193> From the Arch bug also saw the Xfce one: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13770
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13770 in General "xfce4-power-manager panel plugin doesn't work with gtk-3.22.18.1" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> So, a GTK, Debian, Arch, and Xfce bug.  Nice fallout!
<ninetls> yes
<ninetls> the funnies thing is that they updated gtk
<ninetls> they closed related bug report as "fixed" in arch
<ninetls> bug actually the bug still present
<ninetls> Unit193: yes, works with this patch
<ochosi> i guess i'll have a long and winding road ahead of me arguing to get the patch into gtk+, judging from ebassi's comment...
<Unit193> Figured, based on the one guy.  But uncool for them to break this and not fix it in a "stable" release.
<ochosi> that'll sort of be my argument..
<ninetls> "works in gnome shell. RESOLVED WONTFIX"
<Unit193> That's pretty much how I read it.
<ochosi> nah, don't be so pessimistic
<ochosi> the report is not closed
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-13
<bluesabre> Unit193: congrats!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks!
<Unit193> Ah nice, you already got elementary-xfce sponsored.
<bluesabre> Yup
<bluesabre> Hopefully will get to the other side of that tonight
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-14
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Drop icons since elementary-xfce is now in another source package @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=90fcacf53be204f5691e1984b062e8d2c59ba21c (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release package version 18.10 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=e7890f190ef75a51337f6468a2ebe52f69519d6b (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> got a crash with new elementary-xfce-icon theme, unreportable of course ... "UnreportableReason: An Ubuntu package has a file conflict with a package that is not a genuine Ubuntu package."
<flocculant> ailed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce/CONTRIBUTORS', which is also in package xubuntu-icon-theme 201807170202~ubuntu18.04.1
<flocculant> install -f also fails to fix this
<Unit193> Urgh, ppa xubuntu-icon-theme.
<flocculant> I expect so
<Unit193> With that version scheme, yeah.
<flocculant> thought I'd say something just in case - run out of time to do more than say though :p
<flocculant> I knew I should have got rid of the shimmer ppa given no-one's bothered to cosmic it
<flocculant> and now ppa-purge fucks up
<flocculant> fixed it I hope :D
<flocculant> re-enabled ppa for xfwm4 as well 
<flocculant> off now
<ochosi> yeah, shimmer-daily isnt there for cosmic yet
<ochosi> would be helpful though, as some things will need testing over the cycle
<ochosi> there will hopefully also be some more icon fixes and improvements
<ochosi> elementary is doing some dramatic changes upstream (default folder color)
<bluesabre> I'll probably get the shimmer ppa updated tonight or tomorrow
<ochosi> will take some time to get the new foldrt icons pulled in...
<ochosi> lots of dependencies
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'll also be working on adding the Makefile to elementary-xfce so we have a normal png build process
<bluesabre> As of this morning, cosmic has an svg icon theme
<bluesabre> (shouldn't stay that way long)
 * bluesabre waits a few days while he logs into the ubuntu wiki
<bluesabre> it's been a while since the last meeting... slickymaster, want to put one together?
<ochosi> bluesabre: ahhh, *that* was it! a few days ago i asked you about some devel stuff we had discussed and couldnt remember what it was, it was the makefile and svgtopng
<flocculant> bluesabre: is me being in -council, which owns all x-things likely to be the reason why I'm being spammed by myriad merge proposals from LP?
<flocculant> ochosi: ack re shimmer - someone will need to tell me that it's there for cosmic or I will be unaware
<ochosi> flocculant: i guess blue will do that
<flocculant> ochosi: I hope so :p
<flocculant> Unit193: xfwm4 again ... restarted lightdm and got something much more useful 
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> Dismissing XPresent as unusable, error 3 for request 148
<flocculant> xfwm4 warning in xsession which seems to tally timestamp wise with this useless episode
<flocculant> xsessions-errors would be so much smaller without gtk-warnings from panel :p
<ochosi> which ones in particular?
<ochosi> (often times it's plugins, not the panel itself, but would be good to know)
<flocculant> ochosi: about 7000 lines all pretty much like 'allocation is yxy, but minimum required size is zxz
<flocculant> lots of plugins
<flocculant> can pastebin it if you want ...
<ochosi> mhm, better report them as issues for the respective plugins
<ochosi> we can also try to suppress more warnings
<ochosi> but not sure if that's a really good idea
<flocculant> yea I'd ack the reservation 
<flocculant> reading this and reporting is going to be headachy :p
<ochosi> yeah, probably fixing is going to be headachy too ;)
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> I can do it though if you think it should be reported
<flocculant> oh this is fun - just doing a vid of thunar highlighting xsession-errors
<flocculant> ochosi: https://streamable.com/d36ae
<flocculant> ftr it's now at 2.4MB
 * flocculant wonders if it's something to do with the dead xfwm4 - reboots
<ochosi> at least thunar is working, eh? ;D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> that's awesome lol
<flocculant> well new -errors has reached 240kB now - I suspect this could be a bit of an issue lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: just checked the svgtopng script - no clue why libxfce4ui is a depend there. that can safely be dropped afaict
<flocculant> ochosi: looking at this file I'm not sure what to even report against ... attempt to underallocate toplevel WrapperPlug for instance
<flocculant> also downgraded xfwm4 to check for myself it wasn't that
<Spass> you can see a lot of "is drawn without a current allocation. This should not happen" errors in the XsessionErrors.txt in my bug report here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1785143
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1785143 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce4-settings-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_drag_finish()" [Medium,New]
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> file after reboot is 2.6Mb currently
<flocculant> anyway - wandering off into the night now
<ochosi> nighty flocculant 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-15
<bluesabre> ochosi: it seems like this bug is starting to appear again, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1431149
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1431149 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "XFCE 4.12 Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> Also, it might be time for us to work libinput in... annoying number of reports where folks have some gnome thing pulling it in and then it overrides -synaptics
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmm, i guess most of the time that black screen bug is a driver issue. alternatively we could check if logind defaults have changed (but i suppose not)
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1786959
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1786959 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Adapt to new Evince icon name" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> yeah, the bug is annoyingly persistent
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think settings already supports libinput (at least 4.13), maybe just a matter of including it and excluding synaptics
<ochosi> the evince name i'll take care of
<ochosi> latest after youve added the makefile ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: it does... I've never actually tested it, it's a buildtime requirement
<ochosi> me neither
<ochosi> can take care of evince later today
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> also need to start a call for testing for the display profile feature sometime next week or so
<bluesabre> will aim to add the makefile to the theme tonight
<ochosi> cool, thanks
<ochosi> then testing locally will also be easier
<ochosi> and as i said, that libxfce4ui depend is totally useless
<ochosi> maybe nick wanted to add a dialog or something to it
<ochosi> bluesabre: can you please update the elementary-xfce package? i have already pushed my changes upstream (will really be nice once we have that completely in sync again (incl. the svgtopng part)
<ochosi> bluesabre: with "my changes" i'm ofc referring to the evince patch
<bluesabre> ochosi, we can do a point release once I have the makefile in there, if that's cool with you
<bluesabre> And then we can pkg up in deb,ubuntu
<ochosi> bluesabre: sounds good. should also get the upstream git tags and downstream package versions in sync (if they aren't already)
<ochosi> bluesabre: can also consider the folder color transition first
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Install fwupd/fwupd-signed not fwupdate/fwupdate-signed now @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=e44246ad2a65dacc3e816715d0df7bd86cd9a2ac (by Mario Limonciello)
<brainwash> now this is a strange one: booting into the live session, but blueman-applet is not shown in the panel. restarting the panel does not reveal the bluetooth tray icon either. however, changing the icon theme via the settings manager does the trick.
<brainwash> I assume that it is intended to be hidden if no bluetooth devices are detected, but not sure.
<ochosi> brainwash: sounds more like a bug
<ochosi> can you click the hidden bluetooth tray icon?
<brainwash> ochosi: it's hidden as in not there at all
<brainwash> no space is reserved for it
<brainwash> but changing the icon theme via the xfce settings manager does add the bluetooth tray icon to the panel
<brainwash> one would assume that a panel restart would do the same, but it does not
<brainwash> https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman/releases/tag/2.1.alpha2
<brainwash> >Implement a new standalone tray app
<brainwash> I guess I will test that
<brainwash> >blueman-adapters is now (Xfce-)pluggable
<brainwash> ohh wow
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes, I'm exclusivly working off of git tags in Debian.
<ochosi> Unit193: good good
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-16
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<ochosi> hey everyone, just fyi i'll be afk until mid of next week (hoooolidays!)
<knome> hf!
<brainwash> bluesabre: do reports like this one have to forwarded upstream now? or do you check launchpad too?
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1783887
<ubottu> bug 1783887 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "XFCE panel dissapeared after restore in 18.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783887
<brainwash> The question is: should xfpanel-switch check if 'output-name' and 'position' can be applied to the new system, or should xfce4-panel not crash/disappear when given a invalid config
<bluesabre> brainwash: it's best to forward to upstream. The ones fixing those bugs are often not in the Xubuntu team
<brainwash> bluesabre: isn't xfpanel-switch your domain?
<brainwash> aka Xfce4-panel-profiles
<bluesabre> brainwash: it is, but most folks wouldn't know that :)
<bluesabre> I'll work on resolving that bug soon. Ideally, it would check for those displays and a) fail gracefully, or b) swap them out with the current configuration
<brainwash> bluesabre: so, xfce4-panel does not require any patching? I mean this bug could be fixed in both components, or just in either of them
<brainwash> it's a bit confusing
<bluesabre> Yeah, I'd imagine they both need fixes. Fixing just xfpanel-switch would for the most part hide the issue
<bluesabre> ugh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1782735/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1782735 in catfish (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] catfish 1.4.6, New upstream microrelease" [Medium,In progress]
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-17
<brainwash> bluesabre: this looks broken https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+recipe/xfwm4-daily
<ochosi> brainwash: nice to see you around again
<brainwash> hi ochosi 
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> I decided to check out some things here and there
<brainwash> bluesabre: new info in bug 1754872
<ubottu> bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center is unusable on xubuntu-desktop, but called from Gear (About this Computer, System Settings) icon, Text Entry Settings, clock (Time & Date Settings)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754872
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-18
<brainwash> Unit193: any thoughts on bug 1590333? I assume that nothing can be done about this, and that even -core has to keep those additional fonts on the Recommends list.
<ubottu> bug 1590333 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu cluttering the system with useless fonts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590333
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, those fonts are part of desktop-common (shared with all the *buntu*), most added in 17.10... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oAkWhSp-Lpo-g1Vv91APlmr5L_erfarN_45CSxyxrxc/edit?usp=sharing
<brainwash> bluesabre: does -core have to depend on those, well, recommend them?
<brainwash> that is the question
<bluesabre> brainwash: I believe so. It was a surprise add, late in the cycle, and I think we weren't the only flavor that was annoyed by it.
<brainwash> ah I see
<bluesabre> brainwash: btw, thanks for all the bug interactions... my inbox has never been fuller faster :D
<brainwash> hopefully you still read the important ones :)
<bluesabre> yeah, trying to
<brainwash> I think it's best if you close bug 1590333
<ubottu> bug 1590333 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu cluttering the system with useless fonts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590333
<bluesabre> brainwash: done, thanks
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> remaining reported bugs in xubuntu-meta are requests for additional deps: apturl, fonts-noto-color-emoji, libreoffice impress, qt5-style-plugins, and deja dup (for backups)
<brainwash> bluesabre: what does the handle display brightness keys do here? https://i2.wp.com/bluesabre.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/12_Xfce.png
<brainwash> it's it just an information?
<knome> flocculant, the wiki now has toc's showing up on some pages (think: those that have a lot of subheadings
<knome> practially it looks somewhat wonky at the moment, but it is there...
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<knome> np
<knome> i was thinking about hiding it in a dropdown menu in the toolbox, do you think that would work?
<knome> ofc i would make that menu pop out more than the buttons
<knome> but in similar style...
<knome> then we could easily enable it for all pages with more than one heading
<flocculant> hide the toc?
<knome> yes, "hide"...
<knome> you know, not to make the content go too far down
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> so add one more button like the edit buttons
<knome> but with like dark blue bg
<flocculant> have a play if you like - I'll check 
<knome> and when you hover over, it shows the toc
<flocculant> mmk
<flocculant> I'll check that at that point
<knome> yup
<flocculant> seems that pages have a random 1 appeared at the bottom ...
<knome> hmm
<flocculant> have to look at headings too - this page's toc looks silly :p https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa:testing
<knome> yeaaah
<knome> that's because you've mixed heading levels
<knome> :/
<flocculant> :D
<knome> or in other words, do not skip levels
<flocculant> probably, they rarely make sense if you do them in order
<knome> ====== Six ='s ===== need to be followed by ===== Five ='s ===== etc...
<flocculant> or rather, make sense to some people
<knome> in that case we should fix the heading styles though
<knome> i mean obviously you can go back levels
<knome> == Two == can be followed by ====== Six ======
<flocculant> eg the 'headings' font, weight etc never seem to work out right
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> anyway - off now, just got in from a day on the bike and need food
<knome> nighty!
<flocculant> cya :)
<knome> flocculant, there's now a very rough draft of the dropdown...
<brainwash> selecting adwaita-dark in the appearance settings turns on dark mode for the window decorations too
<brainwash> I did not expect that
<brainwash> bluesabre: another won't fix bug 1565338
<ubottu> bug 1565338 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "ubuntuBSD support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1565338
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-12
<Unit193> (Close, but wrong.  Xfconf is amusingly before libxfce4ui)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.14.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-14-1-released-tp55226.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: Xfce 4.14 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-Xfce-4-14-released-tp55228.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I took about 3, rest are yours.
<knome> pills?
<Unit193> knome: Hrm, do you need to also update the link in 'Communication' under the 'dev area'?
<knome> hm?
<knome> yeah, i guess
<knome> though it says tracker
<knome> which isn't true
<bluesabre> Unit193: alrighty, will process any missing throughout the week, thanks for the help!
<Unit193> parole and catfish are the only ones left. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> weee, nice work Unit193!
<jphilipz> congrats bluesabre, ochosi, and the entire team for the 4.14 release.
<jphilipz> look forward to trying it out in xubuntu
<ochosi> thanks jphilipz - also for your contributions
<jphilipz> glad to help
<jphilipz> when will the meeting happen so we can finalize the size of the default panel for xubuntu
<knome> i'm the one to schedule one, but i wouldn't mind of somebody else does...
<jphilipz> we also need to decide on the default shortcuts
<jphilipz> knome: are meeting dates normally decide on the mailing list?
<knome> team members schedule them as they see best and people either join or don't
<knome> got to run.
<knome> see you!
<jphilipz> bluesabre: when you get a chance, do schedule a meeting to discuss the shortcuts - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-June/011819.html
<jphilipz> would be good to also discuss the panel's default size - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-July/011825.html
<albinard> I'm kind of stuck - trying to report bug against Ubiquity in Eoan.
<flocculant> albinard: if you come back via irc logs ... what was the problem? and if it's on the minimal doohickey not the standard iso, Unit193 might know if there's a problem
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<albinard> Back after power outage.  Trying to file bug on casper 1.414 in Eoan ISO of 0812
<Unit193> flocculant: No, there's been no Core ISOs for Eoan as something broke them.
<albinard> Yep, I'm testing the real thing, not Core.
<albinard> It's just the "No prompt to remove media" after starting the reboot.
<Unit193> That'd be casper
<albinard> Thought I already filed, doing so again now.
<albinard> Guess it worked that time.  Wow, power outage hit a big section of Albuquerque, but fixed fast.  Right in the middle of all this!
<Unit193> Hey so ubottu said I should play it fast and loose, backporting *all* of Xfce 4.14 to Bionic in the 'staging'/backports PPA.  Does anyone disagree with ubottu?
<Unit193> This specifically would break GTK2 panel pluginss and thunar plugins.
<Unit193> I'd either skip -terminal or backport vte too.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-13
<flocculant> albinard: that bug is reported often - I stopped bothering about 5 years ago, check launchpad for recent ones - I thought guiverc was seeing it
<flocculant> Unit193: imagine that ;)
 * guiverc is lost re: bug/topic, but if I can help let me know..
<flocculant> guiverc: seem to remember you talking about the no prompt to remove media a short while back
<guiverc> okay... saw it too on 18.04.3 testing (though it had different message; it was restart your system as I recall)...   the issue wasn't unique to xubuntu though
 * Unit193 never has any idea what's going on.
<flocculant> Unit193 is in the best place 
<flocculant> I'm there too 
<Unit193> I don't think I'd wish for anyone to be where I'm at.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think that'd be cool, if you'd be up to it. I can bet plenty of folks would be happy with an xfce 4.14 option for bionic
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: gigolo 0.5.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-gigolo-0-5-0-released-tp55266.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-diskperf-plugin 2.6.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-diskperf-plugin-2-6-2-released-tp55269.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-fsguard-plugin 1.1.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-fsguard-plugin-1-1-1-released-tp55271.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-mpc-plugin 0.5.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-mpc-plugin-0-5-2-released-tp55273.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
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<k3dar7> hi, have please anyone working Xubuntu18.04-64bit+PPA-Staging with Intel GPU? for me stop working some week ago (while pre2?), and i think problem is with Intel GPU/Drv incompabilites... after login segfault xfwm4 and/or xfce4-session and/or xfce4-panel and keep only desktop with icon, without panel and without window manager, is possible run terminal from right-click-desktop-menu byt cursor is not active...
<k3dar7> tested with Thinkpad T420(i7-2640M)/X220(i5-2520M) (Intel Only GPU), STX-Desktop with i3-7100T (Intel Only GPU) all is same, only working is (32bit version here) on Thinkpad T60p (CD T2500) with AMD FireGL and with desktop AMD 1950X + NvidiaGeforce
<k3dar7> + work fine in virtual (64bit, QEMU/KVM/Virt-Manager/Spice)
<brainwash> k3dar7: mesa bug I think
<brainwash> or packing related
<brainwash> found it
<brainwash> bug 1835622
<ubottu> bug 1835622 in mesa (Ubuntu) "Cannot start desktop session with compositor enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835622
<k3dar7> brainwash: thx! i think this is exact bug/problem as i have, i'm going try in bug sugested ubuntu-x-swat ppa :)
<k3dar7> brainwash: mesa from ubuntu-xswat ppa not help., but disabling compositing yes, anyway is strange that now work in xfwm4.xml change use_compositing from true to false, bud must ppa-purge xubuntu-dev/staging, disable compositing in settings, add back ppa+upgrade... is other place where Xfce save compositing settings? i try backup and show diff for whole .config + .local with and without compositing (switched via desktop/settings) a
<k3dar7> nd not show any different only in xfwm4.xml
<brainwash> k3dar7: changes to the xml files usually have no effect while Xfce is running
<Unit193> k3dar7: With regards to that, can't you just downgrade xfwm4?
<k3dar7> brainwash: after change xml ofcourse i restart lightdm (not system restart), with ppa-purge/change_in_gui/add_ppa cycle i too not restart system, only lightdm and Xfce start fine (without compositing), now tested on another (Lenovo Yoga Y300) and same, for compositing off i must repeat same purge..add cycle :) if i in Xfce 4.14 without compositing enable compositing in GUI, then xfwm4/panel crash and disable via xml/lightdm_restar
<k3dar7> t not work and again must whole strange cycle for disabling :-D
<k3dar7> Unit193: hi, not try yed downgrade only xfwm4, i try after some test
<k3dar7> Unit193: you right, with downgrade xfwm4 only is possible with PPA enabled/Xfce4.14_installed success login and enable/disable Compositing via GUI settings :)
<k3dar7> brainwash: Unit193: i find problem with disabling via xml, with lightdm restart or stop/start, is still previous xfconfd running, if i stop lightdm, kill xfconfg and start lightdm then is possible with Xfce4.14(without downgrade xfwm4) disable compositing, this is better for debuging :)
<k3dar7> Unit193: btw (you know, longtime question:) what about xfce4-panel and xfce4-terminal in ppa for 18.04? for terminal is only need include ubuntu_vte_no_regex.patch present in stock 18.04 xfce4-terminal source :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-14
<k3dar7> Unit193: thx! for xfce4-panel 4.14 to 18.04 ;-)
<Unit193> Sure, let me know if there's anything that becomes uninstallable.
<k3dar7> updating xfce4-panel remove xfce4-mailwatch-plugin xfce4-notes-plugin as both packages is from bionic/universe repo and depends on xfce4-panel <4.13
<k3dar7> can you please add this packags to ppa if is actual source compatible with 4.14?
<k3dar7> at least notes plugin :-)
<Unit193> You use both?
<Unit193> Ah.
<k3dar7> i use only notes :-)
<k3dar7> btw: i have installed xfce4-goodies and all others depends plugins keep installed, only this two (and ofcourse metapackage xfce4-goodies) is uninstalled
<Unit193> k3dar7: Uploaded, wait for it to build then you'll be good to go.
<k3dar7> thanx :) but is strange without xfce4-notes-plugin is notes still on panel i try reboot for sure
<Unit193> There's nothing that stops functioning, it's just a conflict.
<k3dar7> i have enabled Notes in xfce4-session-settings/Autostart, then i think not need plugin, in packages xfce4-notes i see png's in /usr/share/xfce4-notes-plugin (not .so) then main binary work also as "self plugin"?
<Unit193> You can now update.
<k3dar7> xfce4-notes and xfce4-notes-plugin succesfully installed and with disabled notes in autorun and readded plugin on panel work fine :-) thans :)
<k3dar7> Unit193: although i not use mailwatch plugin, can you please try add to ppa too? because now as removed xfce4-goodies is all on it depens keeped packages set as auto installed and not necessary and "apt autoremove" want remove it and if user want keep it then must set all this packages as manual installed... 
<k3dar7> Unit193: ah, you already add also mailwatch with notes before, thx :-))
<k3dar7> now xfce4-goodies can be installed and all is ok :)
<k3dar7> Unit193: then last packages not for 18.04 is i think only xfce4-terminal, is really problematic add vte patch to ppa build if is  regular/official ubuntu patch for xfce4-terminal stock package?
<k3dar7> Unit193: i now check all in staging package and compare version for 18.04 and 19.04 and all is same, but i see xfwm4 is in 4.13 version? for both 18.04 and 19.04. is only missed or problem with compile in ppa??
<Unit193> Pardon..?
<k3dar7> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+index?batch=75&memo=75&start=75
<k3dar7> xfwm4	4.13.4-0ubuntu1~19.04	Unit 193 (2019-07-30) 
<k3dar7> xfwm4	4.13.4-0ubuntu1~18.04	Unit 193 (2019-07-30)
<Unit193> Ah, so you want xfwm4.  OK.
<Unit193> Yeah that was missed because I have to exclude it from #elsewhere.
<k3dar7> :-)
<k3dar7> and sorry i repeat, but xfce4-terminal 4.14 for 18.04? :-)
<Unit193> Not as of now, nope.
<Unit193> I'm not too interested in patching that all up again. :P
<k3dar7> is not posible only add existing patch file to package build?
<k3dar7> thx for xfwm4 in ppa :-) i try in 30m and report
<k3dar7> Unit193: xfwm4 4.14 on 18.04 work (without Compositor)
<k3dar7> brainwash: finaly "solved" 1835622, updating Mesa from Padoka Unstable PPA: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1835622/comments/9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1835622 in mesa (Ubuntu) "Cannot start desktop session with compositor enabled" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> k3dar7: nice
<crydotsnake-M> Hello Dear Xubuntu Community! :))
<knome> hullo
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-17
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: thoughts on shipping tumbler's folder thumbnailer by default?
<Unit193> Was ist das?
<ochosi> (as it's prominently announced in the 4.14 tour people may suddenly want it)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> folder thumbnail generated based on folder.jpg
<knome> hello
<ochosi> knome: schedule the next meeting!
<knome> yes, i should, thank you
<ochosi> knome: and review my www patch!
<knome> nah
<knome> :P
<Unit193> He doesn't listen to my bot.
<ochosi> stop slacking!!:))
<knome> wait, how do you know i'm on slack
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> Slacking is fun, we're trying to see who can be the biggest slacker.
<ochosi> so who's in the lead currently?
<knome> i've been doing pretty well lately
<Unit193> Me!
<knome> but can it be counted as slacking if you are MIA completely?
<ochosi> knome: you just slipped a little with the wallpaper
<knome> IMO slacking is being around but not doing anything (:
<knome> well yeah..
<knome> stuff happens :D
<ochosi> no, you gotta say hello from time to time and then not do anything imo
<knome> yep
<knome> so maybe i've been getting better at slacking then
<knome> was kind of MIA for a while
<Unit193> ochosi: Got a link?
<ochosi> just a sec
<ochosi> it's mentioned here, with doc link: http://xfce.alteroot.org/about/tour
<Unit193> Ah.  I see.
<Unit193> knome: Wait, so to be a slacker I have no opinions, right?
<knome> (;
<Unit193> ochosi: In the past when I've seen things do that, they have a slight outline that it's a folder.
<Unit193> I'd generally defer to Sean, he'll agree with you.
<ochosi> Unit193: i think the look is improve-worthy
<ochosi> i guess remixing the thumbnail on top of a folder icon would be tricky, as icons can have any kind of dimension/shape...
<ochosi> but an outline a la thumbnail frame would probably work
<bluesabre> hello!
<bluesabre> I think Unit193's right, some sort of outline for a folder thumbnail would make it a little clearer that it's not just a photo
<bluesabre> unless that's not what I'm agreeing with currently
<knome> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-18
<Unit193> Does anyone on the Xubuntu team (or contributors) use xfdashboard?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I do not
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-10
<jphilips> Unit193: how to send you a patch for the core website for the explanation of the apt command
<jphilips> okay i see i shared it by pastebin the last time, so here it is - https://pastebin.com/9Ust3vdm
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<jphilips> bluesabre: is knome chairing the next meeting ^^^
<Unit193> jphilips_: Sure, sounds good to me.  Though with one minor change: s/install/installs/, "..that it installs the.."
<jphilips_> Unit193: great
<jphilips> my computer crashed and after restarting, pressing different keys results in a different key being pressed. any suggestions how to fix.
<jphilips> i press Esc and it presses v, i press Ctrl and it presses Ctrl_L and Ctrl+XF86Back
<pleia2> check the keyboard layout?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-11
<jphilips> looks the same as it was - https://imgur.com/uYEIeyU.png
<Unit193> jphilips: You should set up libravatar. :>
<jphilips> Unit193: not sure how libravatar would help me here :D
<Unit193> Honestly?  Not a whole lot, it'd just show a nice avatar on my git stuff. :P  In case you didn't notice, pushed the changes.
<jphilips> okay signed up for it, can't find the confirmation email in my inbox :(
<Unit193> IIRC, gitlab.xfce, salsa.debian, and others also support it.
<jphilips> thats great. i remember gravatar was the way to have your avatar appear everywhere
<Unit193> libravatar is an open version of gravatar, usually when people set up the former it has a fallback to fetch them from the latter.
<pleia2> I have a conflict during the meeting today (21 week baby ultrasound, woo!!), so I'll catch up with everyone later :)
<ochosi> weeee, congrats pleia2!
<pleia2> thanks <3
<jphilips> pleia2: hope all goes well with the checkup
<jphilips> bluesabre: 5 mins to showtime
<bluesabre> Work meeting holding over a bit
<bluesabre> Alrighty
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 11 21:06:45 2020 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> !team | meeting time! Who's around?
<ubottu> meeting time! Who's around?: bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit193
<bluesabre> If the answer turns out to be "not many", we may postpone until later in the week.
<bluesabre> Quiet room.
<jphilips> i'm here :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> We'll go ahead and postpone for now. I'll send a Doodle out to the team to schedule the next meeting for sometime in the next week.
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to reschedule meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to reschedule meeting
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 11 21:14:41 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-08-11-21.06.moin.txt
<bluesabre> jphilips: thanks for attending! Didn't want to propose changes with nobody around (outside of us) to discuss.
<jphilips> bluesabre: of course
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm late, but here! :P
<Unit193> pleia2: Congrats!  How'd it go?
<pleia2> Unit193: all good :) thank you
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Trip unsupported things from d-i-requirements, to allow demotion/removal. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=2b0baf2b951e674ec7f82380840ae29759995774 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Drop unsupported things from boot seed @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a6bea07cf0c3ce1e60bad655349f8ee471d09632 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-12
<ochosi> bluesabre: sry, didn't make it :/
<guiverc> primarily FYI:  both install alongside qa-tests have felt strange (slow boots of older install).. 6+ mins on i386 from turn on till desktop displays, ~4 min for amd64 box.. fresh install is good.. currently only noted in iso.qa.ubu
<guiverc> (my boxes are old & slow yes.. but that's unusually! slow!)
<guiverc> 18.04.5 daily
<guiverc> it's only initial boot (qa-test assessments), reboots feel normal...
<Unit193> jphilips: FWIW, poked someone with libravatar, outlook doesn't like them right now (which includes hotmail) but if you'd like to mail dev@libravatar.org he'd send you the activation.  Unfortunately, it's pretty common for outlook to block mail. :/
<jphilips> Unit193: thanks. will email them.
<jphilips> found out the problem was with my wireless microsoft keyboard, as other USB keyboards didn't have the same problem, and now the problem has resolved itself after a few days of hell :D
<jphilips> Unit193: libravatar done ;D
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-13
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.3.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-3-0-released-tp59361.html (by Ali Abdallah-6)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I *reeeally* hate to be putting pressure anywhere, but will you by chance have any time coming up?
<bluesabre> Unit193: whatâs up? I might have some time tonight and this weekend
<Unit193> xubuntu-docs being unbuildable in the LTS and devel release is really bugging me, I would really like to upload (or, have someone upload) a new version.
<bluesabre> I can do that
<Unit193> Basically, I hear there's things staged, I wouldn't want to push if that doesn't land.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-session 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-session-4-15-0-released-tp59364.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
