#ubuntu-nz 2011-01-17
<thumper> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<Atamira> what a terrible day
<Atamira> was cooler inside the office than outside
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<mwhudson> man, i feel sorry for that guy on the wellylug list
<mwhudson> but i wish he would stop
<ajmitch> what is he doing?
<mwhudson> asking for help, cluelessly
 * ajmitch looks at the archives & sees one name repeated many times
<mwhudson> i think he seems to have screwed up his DNS, but as he seems incapable of reading or writing emails that actually contain information...
<ajmitch> some of the responses are amusing
<ajmitch> it does get a bit frustrating when the only information you get is "it doesn't work!"
<ojwb> is wellylug active beyond the list?
<ojwb> website seems to claim monthly meetings, but have none listed
<ibeardslee> a lot of stuff seems to ahve fallen by the wayside and Jethro was overloading himself with work
 * ojwb STR there was a hutt valley meeting listed when I arrived here too
<ibeardslee> that was to cater for thse out that way .. but they seem to fail if there isn't someone to push at them
#ubuntu-nz 2011-01-18
<ojwb> wow, he replied to tim's post about pycon with his problem
<ojwb> i guess I'd turn up if someone did, but I'm already suffering from toomuchtodoitits
<mwhudson> likewise
<ibeardslee> yeap yeap yeap
 * ojwb suspects the reason nobody on the list has offered to take payment for sorting it is he comes over as likely to be a client from hell
 * ibeardslee is wewwy wewwy wary of doing stuff like that
<thumper> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<mwhudson> thumper: i am skeptical
<thumper> oh?
<thumper> skeptical of what?
<mwhudson> thumper: it being morning for you
<thumper> it was when I wrote that
<thumper> 11:47am actually
<mwhudson> ah ok
<mwhudson> thumper: how is it going?
<thumper> pretty good
<thumper> nice to be with the team again
<thumper> some new teams though :)
<hads> Morning
<snail> morning
<ibeardslee> pushing it
<ojwb> hmm, nice exemplar of the ubuntu bug reporting experience
<ojwb> back in august I report a bug that the mirror list on the website doesn't have any mirrors listed for nz, australia, or south america
<ojwb> in december someone marks the bug as ubuntu-website-content rather than ubuntu-website
<ojwb> today someone closes it as invalid, saying the list updates automatically
<ojwb> as far as I can tell the website has since been redesigned and the list no longer is even there
<ojwb> way to go encouraging people to report issues
<ojwb> oh, and meanwhile another bug got marked as a duplicate of mine too
#ubuntu-nz 2011-01-19
<snail> morning
<Atamira> morena e hoa
<snail> ka pai!
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-01-20
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> morena e hoa
<Atamira> morena e hoa.
<ojwb> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-01-21
<thumper> evening
#ubuntu-nz 2011-01-23
<thumper> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-01-16
<hads> G: Thanks :)
<hads> You guys reminded me I need to call Chorus and get them to come fix my footpath.
<hads> G: bcc.telecomwholesale is the actual location of the iframe.
<G> hads: yeah, I should just visit that I guess
 * G still hasn't got round to doing his rewiring either, but I'm blaming the weather and my connection suddenly acting up for that
<hads> I had VDSL installed before Christmas, haven't started using it yet though.
<G> hads: you win ;)
<hads> Sort of. Waiting on the provider to sort the International speed before I commit to keeping it.
<hads> On the ADSL2+ line I can get 1.5MB/s from the US, on the VDSL2 line I can only get 500KB/s.
<G> hads: eeek, that isn't good
<G> hads: hey quick question, do you happen to know the Telepermit # for the Draytek DV120? (if you've got to hunt round it's okay, just curious if you know/have it handy)
<hads> Not off the top of my head sorry, I can find out if you need though.
<ojwb> hads: btw, did you sort out pricing for those temperature sensors you mentioned a while ago?
<hads> ojwb: Hmm sorry, what ones were they again?
<hads> https://nicegear.co.nz/sensors/freetronics-temperature-sensor-module/
<ojwb> http://www.freetronics.com/products/humidity-and-temperature-sensor-module and http://www.freetronics.com/products/temperature-sensor-module I think
<ojwb> ah yes, seems you have
<hads> https://nicegear.co.nz/sensors/freetronics-humidity-and-temperature-sensor-module/
<G> hads: nah it's okay, someone set off a discussion about ADSL modems & Telepermits in another channel, and i realised I couldn't see the DV120 in the list
<hads> Yes, sorry for not getting back to you.
<ojwb> that ok
<ojwb> that's ok too
<G> hads: actually, if you do have a moment sometime I would be interested, because yeah, I found the listing for the 272 Telepermits and don't see the 120 listed there either (I was looking at 273 before)
<chilts> morning
 * chilts will beat ibeardslee this week (except Friday)
<Atamira> morning
<hads> morning
<ojwb> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: ready for your talk? :)
<ibeardslee> mostly
<ojwb> oh, are most people at lca this week?
<ajmitch> there might be a couple of us at LCA
#ubuntu-nz 2012-01-17
<thumper> I'm loving the new battery life in precise
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ojwb> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> thumper: I'm getting <2 hours on mine now
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: is that an increase or decrease?
<mwhudson> i hear all these stories about how well precise works
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: decrease, but I switched to free ati drivers
#ubuntu-nz 2012-01-18
<Atamira> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<kcj> morning
<chilts> morning
<G> how this seems like a great place to ask, anyone here had issues accessing the ASB site since the FF 8 update a while back?
<ojwb> just give me your login details and I'll take a look fot you
<G> ojwb: well even just accessing the asb.co.nz homepage
 * ojwb doesn't have FF8 so can't easily check
<ojwb> there's a good chance someone will
<G> ojwb: fair enough
<kcj> G, I see the problem.
<G> kcj: it happens for you? Directs to their mobile site, and the click to their full site is broken?
<kcj> Yep.
<G> (believe it to not, I told ASB about it over a month ago)
<kcj> G, Found a solution.
<kcj> G, Install a user agent switching addon and switch your user agent to IE 9.
<G> kcj: yeah exactly
<G> kcj: I got fed up though (cos I don't really like running addons etc) and this time send them a message via Fastnet, "Regrettably, ASB does not support the Ubuntu operating system. I am sorry."  (although he said say he was going to forward it again to the ones that manage the site, so that is something
<kcj> Lame.
<kcj> Why do you use firefox if you don't like add-ons?
 * ojwb prods his partner to see if she has a suitable windows FF at work
<G> ojwb: oh it works in Windows
<ojwb> ah
<ojwb> quality
<ojwb> that's ASB on the blacklist then
<G> fwiw: http://dev.nigelj.com/user-agent-change
<G> all I can see that has changed it, is that the "Ubuntu;" added before X11
<G> kcj: in answer to your question: FF Sync (between installations/computers/etc etc), when needed (which atm it is on one of my installations the addons like Firebug are pretty darn good), and I get good mileage out of it
<ojwb> firefox addons do sometimes seem to make it less stable
<ojwb> though it's hard to actually know what crashed it
<kcj> The only thing that's keeping me on FF is the add-ons.
<kcj> Otherwise I'd be using Chrome.
<G> I still don't like Chrome
<ojwb> the process separation is nice, but I think FF has that too now
<G> ojwb: Chrome's separation is iirc per tab, where as FF's is 'firefox' and 'plugin-container'
<ojwb> oh, that's a lot less good
<G> but it means if Flash/Java/etc get a bit pushy, you can just kill the plugin-container
<ojwb> chrome is per tab for a while, and at some point it seems to put more than one tab in each process
<ojwb> but a tab dying doesn't kill the browser, just the tab itself and maybe a few others
<ojwb> I don't run flash or java plugins, so they don't get a chance to take the browser down
<ojwb> i suspect java is only useful if you have a particular application which needs it now
<ojwb> i've not hit a site which seemed affected by lack of java for years
<G> I have, but that is partly because I've wanted to use them and knew full well I'd need Java, so not a great example ;)
<kcj> Java is good for Minecraft. :)
<G> kcj: anyway, thanks for confirming that it wasn't just me
<kcj> np
#ubuntu-nz 2012-01-19
<hads> That's a crappy response from ASB. They are usually quite onto it.
<hads> I've heard quite a few reports of the same issue, not sure what the real issue is.
<kcj> That conversation happened this morning.
<kcj> Well, almost.
<G> hads: it's just the User-Agent, it's exactly what happened when FF4 was released
<G> but yeah, it's a pretty awful response, and one that irks me a little
<hads> I thought they were relatively technically onto it (for a bank). If they are user agent sniffing I might have to rethink that.
<hads> kcj: That conversation has happened several times in the last month or two.
 * karora never has any trouble getting on with Iceweasel, but I go direct to https://fnc.asbbank.co.nz/1/User/LogOn
<hads> I always go direct to fnc.asbbank.co.nz too.
<hads> But I also use Chromium.
 * karora using IceWeasel 9 at the moment.
<karora> Is that the same as FF8?
<hads> Hey I just fired up FF and noticed what you are talking about
<hads> https://fnc.asbbank.co.nz/ still works.
<hads> The main site has a funky as was mentioned.
<karora> Heh.  It WFM, but probably because I am running noscript, and I only allow scripts from the fnc... site :-)
<hads> I run ScriptNo and Ghostery in Chromium.
<hads> Either way, it would seem fnc works anyway. The rest of the site is a standard bank site and not that useful anyway.
<ajmitch> evening all
<ojwb> morning
<G> hads: ooooh, that is interesting, because the mobile Fastnet even acted up for things like logout etc
<G> hads: thanks for the tip
<G> hads: as far as User-agent, I think what they are doing is similar to an .htaccess, if the U-A doesn't match a set list it forces onto the Mobile site
<Atamira> morning
<ojwb> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<kcj> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> thumper: so how did a diversion to honolulu end up delaying you _that_ much?
#ubuntu-nz 2012-01-20
<thumper> mwhudson: because pilots have to take a 12 hour break between flights
<mwhudson> thumper: ah right
<kcj> Morning.
<Atamira> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-01-21
<ajmitch> afternoon
<ibeardslee> you back in country now?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> plane landed ~ an hour ago, I'm sitting at home now
<ajmitch> did you go to the beerfest today?
<ibeardslee> haven't got there yet. getting ready to go now
<ibeardslee> had a wee snooze
<ajmitch> fair enough
 * ajmitch is just putting the first load of washing on now :)
#ubuntu-nz 2012-01-22
<ajmitch> morning
<ojwb> morning
<Atamira> morning
<kcj> morning
<hads> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: recovered enough from your trip? :)
<ibeardslee> ish .. haven't ventured outside yet, just checking booking for tomorrow
<ibeardslee> was stinking hot yesterday
#ubuntu-nz 2013-01-14
<G> hads: not sure what got through/didn't get through earlier, but: 12:25 < G> no, just when you turn the lights on at night, it'll play the sound :)   ///   hads: interesting, here is hoping it's not a batch issue   ///   might call Intel up and lodge it formally so it becomes a warranty issue too
<hads> G: Yup, all came through just before you disconnected. Good idea lodging it with Intel or the supplier.
<G> hads: yeah, at least if I lodge it through Intel, they've got a proven contact path other than the Communities site
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<olly> morning
<chilts> ah, I did say good morning
 * chilts wasn't sure
<chilts> maybe the rain washed my brain away
#ubuntu-nz 2013-01-15
<G> hads: oh yeah, just FYI, response from Intel basically read: "You have mentioned that you are using Linux for your DC3217IYE, please be informed thou that this kit currently do not support Linux."  and "Could you please try on Windows"
<lifeless> G: hahaha.
<lifeless> G: to which you replied 'YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME', right ?
<ibeardslee> g<tab> >
<ibeardslee> ?
<olly> is rhythmbox the default media player?
<olly> i know it used to be, but then wasn't, but I thought i'd heard it was again
<olly> it's pretty reliably crashy in quantal for me, apparently because libcurl does dodgy things with longjmp(), and the default of fortify-source makes that fail
<olly> with a LD_PRELOAD hack to turn off that, it seems to work much like it did in previous releases I used it in
<olly> not found a bug in launchpad for it, but there are too many bugs open to really be sure
<mwhudson> olly: i believe it's the default again, yes
<ibeardslee> it was, they then moved to banshee and dropped banshee because it was mono based
<lifeless> also terrible
<mwhudson> i think the banshee switch was one of those "if we try it for a cycle, will you *please* just shut up?" things
<lifeless> yeah
 * ibeardslee has started using clementine
<mwhudson> i mostly use spotify these days, because i hate freedom
 * ajmitch still uses banshee
<G> lifeless: actually, to tell the truth, I've got the perfect response, the way they worded it was: " Can you try to use Windows 7 or 8 and check if you will encounter the same problem?", so I'm thinking the appropriate response would be: "I tried to use Windows and it drove me insane"  - I don't have mSATA for it yet, and Windows in infinate wisdom, can't be installed to a USB HDD
<lifeless> G: ha!
<lifeless> G: another option would be to say 'if you give me a windows CD I will try t install it'
<mwhudson> hee
<olly> hmm, i wonder why there doesn't seem to be a bug for this open
<olly> perhaps the bug search just sucks
 * chilts uses cplay :)
<hads> G: Ug.
<hads> G: As an info point, I've had mine running for 24 hours with no issues. Plugged into a noname managed GigE swithc.
<lifeless> olly: search for few but rare terms and it should work well fr you
<G> hads: yeah, I'm pondering my next move on this for after work
<olly> lifeless: i wasn't finding anything...
<olly> though it seems from further digging since that the dependency on libcurl is indirect
<olly> so maybe there's a bug filed on whatever pulls it in
<Pikiora> Hello  :)  Anyone here? I have a question,  i know I know don't start by asking if you can ask a question >.<  Anyho
<Pikiora> I have located a group of files sprinkled throughout my system which have the same file format,  now I want to copy them, can you do that in one big bunch via command line?  Or do I have do to it one by one?
<Pikiora> I think I have it :D
<Pikiora> ooooooooh...oops..
<Pikiora> Don't try this at home :p  --->  strange things happened.   find / -name "*.mobi" -exec cp {} /pikiora/test \;
<Pikiora> Luckily tomorrow is another day!  :D
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-01-16
<mwhudson> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-01-17
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<olly> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-01-18
<G> hads: thought you might be interested, finally got my hands on an mSATA drive and have confirmed for Intel that it isn't the OS at least  (happens with Windows as well), hopefully they'll do something now
<olly> rather sad they aren't interested in linux issues
<olly> it seems a bit of hardware which is much better suited to linux than windows
<G> olly: especially when you consider that one of the usecases they float about is digital signage et al
<lifeless> G: huh. Did you source it locally?
<lifeless> G: I'd seriously consider returning it as faulty.
<G> lifeless: yeah, if I don't hear anything tomorrow morning (i.e. before US goes to the weekend) gonna take it back
<G> the counterpoint is, that it feels obvious that there is a bad batch of something, kind of want to make sure that Intel acknowledge it for the good of everyone else, (the counterpoint to that is why should I when they appear to be ignoring two offers to help via two different channels)
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> so Intel will feel it when they get returns
<lifeless> even if they don't ack it, it costs a lot when product is returned faulty
<lifeless> much more than 'best effort online support'
<lifeless> I'm not suggesting that you should cost them money
<lifeless> just that its a signal they will be looking at
<G> If it was HP I wouldn't blink an eye at the idea, it's just I kind of like Intel
<lifeless> oof that stings
<G> plus surely processing via Warranty  is more expensive, as they have to ship directly? :)
<lifeless> [I work at HP these days :)]
<G> lifeless: oh, you left Canonical?
<lifeless> I did
<G> lifeless: sorry then, just I've had a bad experience with HP in the past, and to be honest, when I look at laptops or printers in particular, I run the other direction from the HP stuff
<lifeless> No need to apologise for genuine experience ;)
<lifeless> And HP is a biiiiiig company, I have nothing to do with printers or laptops (sadly, I would -kill- for a samsung screen on this work laptop)
<ibeardslee> HP generally seem to have decent stuff (ime), but just as useless as most providers supplying PCs and Laptops without legacy OSlicences
<lifeless> OTOH this laptop is beautiful in every other way
<G> (crazy thing is, as far as servers and that go, I'd say it'd be a toss up between HP or IBM for me)
<ibeardslee> would love to find the right contact to keepbeating over the head until they make it easy to get legacy OS free laptops
<lifeless> nothing under http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP/ grabs you ?
<ibeardslee> plenty .. but I can't order it online with linux .. it's a special order and I can't do it online
<lifeless> oh
<lifeless> thats disappointing
<ibeardslee> very
<ibeardslee> it should be just part of the drop down list of OS options?
<lifeless> any of those models are Ubuntu certified
<lifeless> which means that HP and Canonical have a contract and its tested etc
<lifeless> they don't generally do that unless they are going to market with the model with Ubuntu, because its not free
<ibeardslee> doesn't mean you can buy it
<lifeless> vendors often make stuff like this region specific
<lifeless> so it may be that you can in the US, or in China, or Brazil
<ibeardslee> which is retarded
<lifeless> I have no info about what HP does in this regard, just general info.
<lifeless> I *imagine* that there is a minimum volume needed to make logistics for Ubuntu etc work in any region
<ibeardslee> really like no-one can use an airplane or boat?
<lifeless> no, like you won't sell in a region without sales staff training, support staff training, retail pipeline training and collateral
<lifeless> so that you don't get J Random 'mom or pop' ringing up the support centre for this thing they bought they don't know how to use and won't run Word
<lifeless> *and then* run into a clueless helpdesk person that has no idea whats going on.
<G> lifeless: don't you mean, J Random why can't find the start button and getting the message "No boot disk found" :)
<ibeardslee> so B Random calls and says apt-get install postgresql doesn't work? ;)
<lifeless> folk who replace their OS are not in the regular consumer category, by definition :)
<ibeardslee> no, but if use the default installed OS that won't work
<G> to be perfectly honest, I get why the likes of HP/etc don't do "OS-less to distributor" shipments, particularly in this part of the world, it's the likes of Lenovo & Dell that are mainly Build-To-Order, surely it's a simplier process to forget to image the HDD and put a sticker on
<lifeless> its not the bto aspect that makes it tricky - its all the rest I just mentioned
<ibeardslee> and anyway, don'tthey send support calls to another region anyway?
<G> lifeless: yep, but my main point there is also logistical concerns
<lifeless> G: there are some, particularly non-BTO, but those can be dealt with just by allowing long lead times for those units
<ibeardslee> But .. in the plus side we recently got a laptop on special order that ended up being <>$500 less than the same thing with the legacy OS
<lifeless> nice
<ibeardslee> but that's not usual .. e've regularly paid more for the FreeDOS version
<ibeardslee> .. or at least had quotes for the FreeDOS version that was more expensive than the one with the legacy OS preinstalled
<olly> morning
<G> hads: curiously, which HDMI port do you use on your NUC?  One that is next to the LAN or the one next to the USB?
<lifeless> what res, and how many, can you run on a NUC?
<G> lifeless: I think it depends on which one you get, the common one is 2xHDMI (so I'd imagine as far as res goes, it's whatever the Intel 4000 HD can push out over HDMI).  The other has Thunderbolt, which may allow chaining of monitors
<lifeless> oooh
<lifeless> I want to give thunderbolt a serious workout someday
<lifeless> the other thing I want to do is upgrade to 10Gb ethernet @ home, but I can't find a 5-port switch anywhere :(
<G> lifeless: you have equipment at home capable of 10Gbit?
<lifeless> G: not on motherboard, but they have pci 8x
<lifeless> 2-port 10Gb pci8x cards are quite available
<G> oh yeah, realised that, but I was just curious as to if you already had 10GbE stuff
<lifeless> just the switch i'm lacking. I may need to just get 2x 2-port cards and throw them in my server
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> so no, but I want to :)
<lifeless> ahha DE-805TP may do the trick
<lifeless> nope
<lifeless> thats a bad blurb, 10M :(
<G> yeah, I was gonna say
<G> "Fastest switch in the west"
<G> actually, it's not even a switch, it's a hub
<G> lifeless: Netgear might have something in the Prosafe range
<lifeless> G: so my thinking is that NAS density is silly high now
<G> lifeless: yeah, I'd agree with that
<lifeless> G: and if I iSCSI things up (or even SMB/NFS) I should be able to get better than local disk performance, if I have > 5Gb b/w. Lots of SME NAS kit is now 10Gb ready
<lifeless> [or roll your own NAS with esata enclosures etc etc]
<G> not sure I'd use eSATA, I'd like go with some sort of PCIe SATA controller over eSATA
<G> *likely
<G> of course, that depends (like always) on the onboard chipset really
<lifeless> G: so that means a new computer case :) - may as well buy a stock nas and flash ubuntu on it for that.
<G> hmmm based on Netgear's ProSafe Switch Poster, the only 10GbE stuff they have is the L3 switches
<lifeless> G: anyhow, thats a relatively minor detail
<G> (tip: don't make my mistake and get one of those side-load HDD cage, cases
<G> but yeah, with the whole NAS/SAN+Hypervisor model we are going with, it's silly not to have all your storage in one box (and hope it doesn't fail) and use iSCSI/etc to make it available to the rest of the machines
<lifeless> s/one box/two boxes/ [thanks ceph :P]
<G> okay, two boxes then :)
<lifeless> I'm thinking if I put a decent chunk of effort in I can spend a litle now and never have to give a toss about storage logistics at home for another decade
<lifeless> just rolling upgrade the disks as needed
<G> yeah, the likes of ceph/gluster/etc sure do make that handy, but isn't there going to be a point where SATA 6Gb/s isn't going to cut it?
<G> or are going to be crazy expensive because it's legacy (like DDR1 RAM)
<lifeless> yeah - so
<lifeless> this is where iscsi vs NFS/SMB makes a difference
<lifeless> with iscsi you don't need much/any caching on the storage nodes
<lifeless> its all cached by the consuming device as os page cache entries
<lifeless> so consider a hard disk - 64MB cache or so often, right ?
<G> Thinking back 10 years, we didn't really have SATA (not until 2003), that was only 1.5Gbps, we've only recently started getting an uptick in 6Gb/s SATA, so a lot has changed, I'd say 10 years is an unrealistic goal, I think you'd need to add a refresh in at the 5 year mark
<G> yeah, the ones I brought the other month were 64MB Cache iirc
<lifeless> so infiniband is up at 40Gb and beyond
<lifeless> 2003 was 1.5Gbps SATA, 2008 gave us 6Gbps
<G> yeah, but we didn't really get a large number of 6Gbps equipment until the last year or so
<lifeless> sata express can do - wtf - 16Gbps
<lifeless> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA (3.2 section)
<G> yeah, I was reading that
 * G starts reading the presentation
<G> hmmm the SATA folk reckon volume shipping was in Jul `10, so thats more 7 years since SATA 1 came out
<G> (for 6Gbps SATA that is)
<lifeless> http://www.sata-io.org/technology/sataexpress.asp links to a sata express faq
<G> lifeless: hmm the reference Wikipedia use tehre (the pdf/presentation) is interesting, convert a PCIe slot on the motherboard to two normal SATA ports, or one super SATA Express port it seems
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> I read that pdf just now too :)
<lifeless> the faq is useful, expands on reasoning
<lifeless> The specification is expected to start SATA-IO member review by the end of 2012. It may be
<lifeless> ratified as early as Q1 2013
<lifeless> SATA
<lifeless> Express will be available to the general public in the next version of the SATA specification, for which no
<lifeless> schedule has yet been set.
<G> so I guess there is your 10 year plan, just amke sure you get a MB with a lot of PCIe slots :)
<lifeless> so
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> the goal isn't to run the fastest possible hardware at any point
<lifeless> its to not be stuck with otherwise great stuff that is inflexible on too-short timeframes
<lifeless> consider this sketch - 4 x 4-port 6G esata port multiplying enclosures, 2x storage hosts w/4GB RAM each, 2-port 10Gb network connectivity
<lifeless> running in no-redundancy mode (for simple reasoning), an iscsi device mapped across both hosts, with say 4MB stripes
<lifeless> there are 16 disks, and linear IO will switch disk -> disk every 4MB
<lifeless> you want that to go from (storage node / esata port / disk) 0/0/0 then 1/0/0 then 0/1/0 then 1/1/0 then 0/0/1 and so on
<lifeless> e.g. each time you switch stripe, go from node to node, then enclosure to enclosure w/in node, and disk to disk within enclosure, to keep utilisation of buses from being a choke point
<G> yeah, that'd work quite well I'd imagine
<G> but surely because you are using so many disks, and non-redundancy (I get the reasoning by the way), wouldn't you just be upping your risk for something to go wrong, through the roof?
<lifeless> totally
<lifeless> lets just check the math
<lifeless> assume my games box is a regular 10Gb single port machine
<lifeless> so we guarantee 10Gb between the two storage nodes for doing replication / redundancy traffic when we go to add that in
<lifeless> we have 12Gb total esata b/w within each node
<lifeless> so in reading-mode we can saturate the 10Gb to the games box from either node and still have 2Gb spare to do maintenance operations, but if the load is well distributed we have 5Gb games box traffic per, and 7Gb for maintenance (or another client machine)
<lifeless> within each enclosure we have 6Gb total, and 4 disks, which is somewhat oversubscribed for linear IO, but probably plenty of excess for random IO unless I put SSD's in there
<lifeless> quick google suggests peak transfer rates are stil ~150MBps or 1.2Gbps for spinning platters
<G> yeah, without doing the math (seriously, math on a weekend? ;)), I'd say it'd work pretty well
<lifeless> SSD's are in the 250MBps range, or 2Gbps, so 4 SSD's would flatline esata.
<lifeless> G: math is fun :)
<lifeless> so, *if* I have 10Gbps ethernet, I can drive more disks in parallel from more machines than if each machine is separate.
<G> lifeless: of course it is, but not on a weekend ;)
<lifeless> If I have 1Gbps ethernet, my peak will be less than half that of a single SSD
<lifeless> I guess I could bond 3x1Gbps on each machine... buts thats getting into way too hard territory.
<lifeless> My laptops will always be non-virtualised for my working set I suspect
<G> yeah, well I suspect that I was nowhere near maxing the Read capabilities of my WD Blacks, nor the Write of my new mSATA drive, my limitation was the 1Gbps network
<lifeless> but if I can get good enough b/w to the backend I can at least shuffle that around without dying of old age.
<lifeless> I've got a 2 WD RED 3TB drives, waiting on an RMA for the other 2.
<lifeless> they are -so- quiet its not funny
<G> ahhh yeah, I've got one of those WD Red 3TBs in my Synology box
<lifeless> so yeah, I think it will work well, I'm going to piece together a plan over a few months, not rush it
<lifeless> just balking a little at buying a 24port 10Gb switch :(
<lifeless> G: of course, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_gigabit_Ethernet would be even more future proof :)
<lifeless> G: http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?scat=32&prod=104&sku=TLNS-1101-D00
<lifeless> fugly tho :)
<lifeless> G: NUC's have thunderbolt right ?
<lifeless> G: 1 or two ?
<G> lifeless: yeah, the non-IYE model
<lifeless> G: how much was the unit ?
<lifeless> [ballpark is fine]
<G> mine (the -IYE/2xHDMI  model) was ~510 from PB Tech, + ~180 NZD for an 128GB mSATA from Crucial + RAM
<G> lifeless: http://www.intel.co.nz/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/next-unit-computing-introduction.html has all the juice on the NUCs
<G> lifeless: and if you throw the model numbers into http://ark.intel.com you'll get extra info
<lifeless> G: yeah. Done that :) I don't see any external openinings for the minipci-E ?
<G> nope, it's on the board, the idea is that the mini-size = WiFi/BT, Full-size = mSATA
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> stab
<G> also to note that the full size, is directly on top of the half-size/wifi one
<G> lifeless: also looks like only 1x Thunderbolt on the TB one
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> so NUC not suitable
<lifeless> thats ok
<lifeless> the other thing to note is that by making the compute aspect of a storage node low-end, you can replace that without mass migration of everything
<lifeless> wheee http://www.attotech.com/howtobuy/index.php?cat=&scat=32&prod=103
<lifeless> $price
<G> oooh, I like how it takes a while to load the price, "Lets keep them in suspense for a moment"
<lifeless> G: have you seen the shouting in the datacentre video ?
<G> lifeless: nope
<lifeless> apropos of storage geeking-out
<lifeless> G: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4
<lifeless> warning, loud.
<G> well there goes my idea of putting a siren in my PC case ;)
<lifeless> lol
 * lifeless presumes you were kidding
<G> of course
#ubuntu-nz 2013-01-19
<Atamira> eeep
<ibeardslee> I've considered a siren in my PC case .. I'd seriously want to cause problems to someone who thought my PC/home servers would be better at their place.
<G> actually, it'd be a good one to stop the cat jumping on mine
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning snail .. how's life?
<lifeless> o/
<ibeardslee> sigh .. started considering starting the conversion of my PCinto my homeserver (to get rid of the VIA C3 jobbie) .. but then started thinking I have 4 disks .. what if I want to upgrade? I don't want a full on PC sucking power
<ibeardslee> what if I also managed to get a freeview capable card?
<ibeardslee> a friggin' rabbit hole
<lifeless> ibeardslee: lol
<lifeless> ibeardslee: see my chat with G for the conclusion of that rabbit hole
<ibeardslee> 'a conclusion' to the rabbit hole
<ibeardslee> a lot of the reason to use what is my PC as a server disappeared when I got the well powered UltraLap .. don't really need it for dev/play VMs
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> with portable compute power so large
<lifeless> fixed stuff has to be either super large, or disk storage :)
<ibeardslee> I suppose ulimately I am after a decent ARM board with GB network and the ablity to deal with at least 4 sata disks
<lifeless> what was that dev server unit again
<ibeardslee> as storage and minimal network services (dhcp, dns, mail, irc client)
<ibeardslee> the PC? an AMD 64 X2
<lifeless> no, there is a little server unit
<ibeardslee> that intel NUC thing?
<lifeless> no :)
<lifeless> I'm just failing at googling it for you
<lifeless> its a little arm unit, like the nuc, but arm.
<ibeardslee> for a while I had looked at the HP N40L
<lifeless> ibeardslee: http://trimslice.com/web/
<lifeless> man they fail at being googlable without the name
<ibeardslee> if they could do better storage options
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> didn't remember the no-esata thing
<lifeless> does have sata though
<ibeardslee> single 2.5"
<lifeless> ibeardslee: looks like http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc/fit-pc3-info/#techinfo has 2xesata
<lifeless> (linked from the trim-fit)
<lifeless> ibeardslee: http://www.fit-pc.com/fit-pc3/docs/fit-PC3-block-diagram.jpg looks like it might match your needs, though it isn't arm
<ibeardslee> hmm seems you can get drive enclosures that plug into a sata port
<lifeless> ibeardslee: I have an icydock 4 bay w/esata that I'm pretty happy with
<lifeless> sourced locally, let me dig up a ref
<lifeless> http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=33
<ibeardslee> looking at those on ascent
<ibeardslee> so could be away without the multiple sata ports onboard
<lifeless> http://www.computerstore.co.nz/MB561US-4SB-1.aspx
<lifeless> is the actual place I got mine, FWIW
<lifeless> it handles 3TB drives fine
<ibeardslee> hmm no those sata-sata devices aren't actually a single sata connection :(
<ibeardslee> ok .. now to start looking for an arm board with an esata port
<lifeless> technically you want esata with/port multiplier support
<ibeardslee> oh .. you can get a sheevaplug with esata
<lifeless> !!!
 * ibeardslee backs away from more rabbit holes 
#ubuntu-nz 2013-01-20
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> moning
<Atamira> moanin
#ubuntu-nz 2014-01-13
<olly> morning
<chilts> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
<kcj> Morning.
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> chilts: the Firefox OS Apps 'team' are working on a game controller of some sort
<chilts> oh cool
#ubuntu-nz 2014-01-14
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-01-15
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-01-16
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-01-18
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-01-19
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-01-12
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-01-13
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<Atamira> lovely day today
<ibeardslee> yes .. some days I wish I had a job that involved being outside.
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-01-14
<olly> I have an enquiry from a potential customer based in the high street of the town in the UK where I grew up
<chilts> olly: nicely done
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> mornings
#ubuntu-nz 2015-01-15
<olly> Morning
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-01-18
<hads> Ah but it's always morning. Also, I'm in AU so it really was morning.
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-01-19
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-01-20
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-01-21
<olly_> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-01-24
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-01-17
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2018-01-15
<negreEM0GK1> âââââââââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  pdjogusj: veebers lifeless ajmitch ââââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> ââââââââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  anrjsh: olly__ veebers atamira âââââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> ââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  nstone: lifeless ajmitch olly ââââââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> ââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  gxqba: veebers olly__ ubuntulog ââââââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> âââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  mvsiqqak: ubuntulog olly__ G âââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> ââââââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  slwiyg: lifeless veebers ubuntulog âââââââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> âââââââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  mzzfeqymhr: G mwhudson ubuntulog ââââââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> âââââââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  xtyjsoa: veebers G ajmitch âââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> ââââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  oyqmsbnkt: veebers atamira mwhudson âââââââââââââââ
<negreEM0GK1> âââââââââââââââââ INFO ABOUT TRELANE http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Goatse+Security+Defaced+Perpetrator+Identified/article20776.htm  gyuejc: ubuntulog olly__ atamira âââââââââââââââ
<ibeardslee> shit too late to get op
<olly> ibeardslee: you can invite the Sigyn bot in if it's recurrent, though annoying it leaves after a few days of no action
<atamira> what an annoying git.
#ubuntu-nz 2019-01-18
<olly> Morning
