#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-18
<HazRPG> hmm, anyone know why banshee would show up twice in the sound indicator?
<HazRPG> See image for what I mean: http://i56.tinypic.com/t65np2.png
<HazRPG> trying to work out how to get rid of one of them
<HazRPG> I'll point out, I had banshee 1.8.1 (maverick)... and then used the PPA  to install banshee 2.0.1
<siya> hmmm, not that convinced by gnome3 yet
<siya> less of a learning curve than unity though :)
<siya> I seem to have lost my dropbox notifier...
<siya> Loving AWN though
<MooDoo> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> good weekend AlanBell [as it appears we're the only ones up] :)
<daubers> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<diplo> morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo :) it's another quiet one :D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer, perhaps this will help your son ?  - http://artlinux.wetpaint.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> thanks MooDoo
<MooDoo> sorry for the tweet too :)
<MooDoo> lol
<oimon> btw how do you get blog posts onto ubuntu planet?
<MooDoo> oimon, edit the wiki with your details
<MooDoo> er ubuntu or ubuntu - uk?
<MooDoo> oimon, if it's the uk one, edit this and then wait - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/planet/
<oimon> is the UK one well read?
<MooDoo> oimon, i think so, i get lots of hits to my site when a post appears on it.
<MooDoo> any exposure helps :)
<oimon> ah i'm not an ubuntu member :S
<MooDoo> for the ubuntu-uk planet you don't need to be
<MooDoo> i'm not either
 * oimon checks
<MooDoo> for the planet.uibuntulinux.org site you do
<oimon> sweet, thanks for the info
<MooDoo> yw!
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning
<wintellect> o/
<MooDoo> :D
<madfish> lo
<DJones> Morning all
 * MooDoo is being really picky about the last ubuntu community week trading card......oooops :D
<MooDoo> http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_18 are the flags locational or nationality :D - http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_18  ok ok i'll shut up
<AlanBell> MooDoo: it is all about balance
<MooDoo> AlanBell, work and play you mean?
<AlanBell> http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_11
<AlanBell> flags
<MooDoo> ah
<AlanBell> tbh, the bigger issue is where the heck am I from? http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_13
<MooDoo> pmsl
<MooDoo> AlanBell, it's the county flag of surrey
<AlanBell> http://www.flagandbuntingstore.co.uk/acatalog/Surrey_Flag.html
<AlanBell> yup, just found it myself
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flags_with_keys
<bigcalm> AlanBell: are you looking at everybody's chests?
 * bigcalm feels violated
<MooDoo> bigcalm, where did that come from? lol
<bigcalm> MooDoo: follow his eyes
<bigcalm> Right, time for physio
<bigcalm> Laters
<MooDoo> ah
<AlanBell> bigcalm: popey said that too
<MooDoo> oh i get you now lol ha ha ha ha
<AlanBell> hmm, guess I should change that picture then
<AlanBell> can't see it myself, looks like I am looking at the camera to me
<MooDoo> :D
<AlanBell> from Google+ when I changed my profile photo
<AlanBell> Alan Pope - Just a bit. It just appeared at the top of my stream. And you appear to be looking just below my chin!. Are you looking at my tits!?
<AlanBell> Alan Bell - yes, but not in admiration :)
<JGJones> soring out over 100GB of duplicated photos is not fun....
<oimon> doesn't one of the apps find duplicates?
<MooDoo> JGJones, good luck, have fun, i had the same issue with 47GB so all i can say is ouch
<oimon> can't remember which one now
<JGJones> oimon, yeah I just found that geeqie does that
<MooDoo> doesn't shotwell?  i can't remember
<oimon> one of the mainstream ones does
<JGJones> oimon, however I sort photos into year/month folders etc.
<krimzon2> oh, I could use something to find resized duplicate photos
<oimon> http://askubuntu.com/questions/4072/how-can-i-find-duplicate-photos
<JGJones> MooDoo - screwed up with rapid photo downloader - I love it, but I misconfigured it.
<MooDoo> oh dear
<JGJones> krimzon2, try geeqie - it can search for duplicates based on similairity and give you a % on how similar two pictures are
<krimzon2> i'll try that
<JGJones> would searching for duplicates using checksum be the best method? (just checking!)
<JGJones> MooDoo, I have no idea if Shotwell can do it, I don't use it - too damn slow for me.
<Myrtti> trimtrees.pl
<MooDoo> JGJones, really?  seems ok to me what do you use instead?
<JGJones> for usual use - I use picasa
<JGJones> but for duplicates I'm using geeqie
<JGJones> MooDoo - my problem with shotwell is that when I start it up, it'll like to scan my library (I assume for thumbnails) - well over an hour later....
<MooDoo> i use picassa for backing them up to my google account
<MooDoo> JGJones, strange, maybe it's coz i've only got 40gb
<Myrtti> flickr â¥
<JGJones> whereas picasa - load it, all pictures is there and ready, instantly
<JGJones> MooDoo, Mine's all in canon RAW - are yours in RAW format? or jpg?
<MooDoo> JGJones, a mixture of the two, so that's probably why, i used jpg until i saw the light :)
<popey> Morning ratfans!
 * MooDoo changes his nick to Error
 * MooDoo changes his nick to Errol
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> oh yeah morning popey :)
<JGJones> freed up 22GB so far...and ubuntu's behaving better as a result...
<AlanBell> never really got into photos myself
<Neoti_Laptop> hi there , i want to use the following case with xbmc and ubuntu/livecd will the system work with the LCD or will i need windows ? http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148791 i would prefer to either use ubuntu / live cd etc ...
<gord> Neoti_Laptop, you need a computer to go inside that case, thats just a case, it really won't affect how well the system works with ubuntu
<Myrtti> AlanBell: pro tip: have some proper pictures taken of you and your close family
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I regret there is none of me and mum now.
<gord> i also have that regret =\ take lots of photos
<Myrtti> it says a lot when the best pictures of me and mum are either from when I was so young I can't be recognized from them
 * MooDoo takes hundreds per week, and it's only going to increase when the new born arrives
<Myrtti> or then the one where I'm 17, but wearing a Star Wars t-shirt and both me and mum have our eyes closed.
<JGJones> I didn't take much pictures myself....until I got kids.
<JGJones> now I have loads :)
<JGJones> hmm just realised....my hdd got stuff full, but it's not just photos...
<MooDoo> JGJones, yes that's it, now i belong to a photography club :)
<JGJones> I forgot that rapid photo downloader can also take videos too...
 * JGJones goes to check video folder...bet there's duplicate videos...
<AlanBell> went on holiday for a week and took one photo
<AlanBell> should probably take more, Myrtti is right
<MooDoo> AlanBell, 749 for a week in whitby :)
<AlanBell> I can't imagine doing that
<AlanBell> or ever looking at them again
<MooDoo> i like to stream them over the TV for the misses
<AlanBell> that thing in the unity button where it says "look at photos" as one of the 8 options, my reaction was "why would you ever want to look at them?"
<Kirrus> AlanBell: as memory joggers? To aid in remembering a time or event.
<AlanBell> hmm, maybe
<Kirrus> I have one decent photo of my grandparents, one of whom is deceased.. it's nice to remember him as he was then, not from in the middle of the cancer eating him
 * MooDoo takes lots of photos as he want's a change of career
<czajkowski> Aloha
<Kirrus> MooDoo: cool. How close are you to being able to make the jump, do you think?
<Kirrus> MooDoo: also, put anything on dA?
<MooDoo> Kirrus, not until i can afford some decent kit.....i've done a few weddings and christenings, want to get better kit before i start really offering my services
<MooDoo> czajkowski, morning
<Kirrus> MooDoo: a bit of a catch-22 suituation?
<MooDoo> Kirrus, so at current count, first child is 2.5, second is due in 6 weeks, so about 20 years
<MooDoo> Kirrus, yeah exactly
<MooDoo> Kirrus, and i'm going to probably make the jump from nikon to canon lol
<Kirrus> I have a canon Ixus 60 point-and-shoot, and it's really very good.. so I'd go for their pro kit if I could afford to ;)
<oimon> canon 400d but i'm not convinced by the picture quality , wondering if it's my lens?
<MooDoo> i really want a 5d mark 2 with a 70-200 2.8 usm II but thats well expensive
<andrewebdev> if someone tells me to post a traceroute on a public forum, would the traceroute reveal my IP in such a way that someone else can use that to try get into my network?
<gord> as long as we are just wishing for super expensive things we'll never get, i want an electric pony powered easter egg dispenser =\
<andrewebdev> or is it revealed anyway?
<MooDoo> andrewebdev, just xxx out anything you don't want them to see
<JGJones> AlanBell, I love seeing photos of my kids...esp over the years (and while checking out the videos for duplicates...rewatching kids playing wii is just damn funny :)
<oimon> most pics of my sprog are taken on my phone...i'll regret it one day
<andrewebdev> MooDoo, the question isn't really that I dont want them to see, but mostly: "Is what they see potentially dangerous to me?"
<Kirrus> andrewebdev: your IP gets scanned daily. It's only dangerous if you post it on a cracker's forum.
<AlanBell> JGJones: interesting, I will try showing the kids some photos and see if they like spending time looking at them
<JGJones> AlanBell, if looking at how they looked when young, they'll find it interesting - esp all the bad fashion/haircuts (try looking at photos of yourself say 10 years ago). But I find looking at my kids more fun than my kids would themselves :)
<JGJones> they especially love seeing pictures of me when I was a kid - they do that a lot when visiting my dad.
<MooDoo> if my sone is 2.5 and i've got another one on the way, and i've already got 45gb of photos....i think i need better storage :)
<JGJones> MooDoo, heh don't we all :)
<JGJones> MooDoo, especially now that I take some videos too (got a Canon SLR that also shoot HD video....so storage costs shoot up)
<MooDoo> yeah.....can see me having terabytes
<MooDoo> JGJones, that's another reason i want a new camera, i'm really looking at the canon 60d at the moment......that has HD video too
<JGJones> hmm I need virgin cable or BT Infinity so I can upload fast for offsite backup.
<JGJones> MooDoo, Mine's just a 500D - still a damn fantastic camera
<popey> andrewebdev: note that we can see your ip right now âº
<MooDoo> JGJones, well considering i'm using a nikon d60 which is a fab camera, i'm at it's limitations
<popey> andrewebdev: 92.235.205.184
<andrewebdev> popey, ok I thought that might be the case. Just wasn't sure if posting a traceroute to google for example was a good idea. I guess it's ok
<popey> âº
<daubers> AlanBell: We could always provide an area for photo dumping at Oggcamp
<daubers> should have the capacity
<daubers> or if not, we will have the capacity :)
<MooDoo> is there a flickr tag for oggcamp?
<Myrtti> I just love my micro fourthirds camera
<Myrtti> it's nice and compact enough
<AlanBell> I do kind of like the google plus instant upload thing, means I won't just delete photos
<MooDoo> AlanBell, i love that, that works with video as well :)
<AlanBell> it does, not so keen on that bit
<AlanBell> my phone automatically uploaded 600MB of video that I wanted to edit first
<Myrtti> I should probably get an Eye-Fi card
<AlanBell> generally with photos if I wasn't going to actually use it for anything I would never look at it again
<davmor2> morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<MooDoo> davmor2, morning mate
<oracology> davmor2: hey buddy
<JGJones> problem with google+'s instant upload is that I think it resize your pictures to a set maximum - it's not the full resolution
<Myrtti> yup
<davmor2> is it just me or does everyone else wish it was still the weekend and they were in bed asleep
<JGJones> however for quickly sharing something on google+, it's awesome for that at least so I tend to leave it enabled.
<JGJones> davmor2, +1
<oracology> davmor2: i hear you. i'm starting my day late today...:(
<MooDoo> davmor2, it's not just you
<krimzon2> +1 on the weekend, but not on still being asleep
<MooDoo> JGJones, i have extra google space, so i use it as backup as well :D
<JGJones> People cheerfully saying "it's a great day to WORK!" should be shot ;-)
<oracology> JGJones: +1
 * Kirrus makes sure he doesn't say that cheerfully... here... ;)
 * oracology watches Kirrus carefully ;)
<gord> its a great day to stay at home and hide under the blankets with the laptop and cat
<oracology> gord: as long as you keep the cat out of the kitchen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iok7fJYMxi4&feature=relmfu
<Kirrus> Aircon air filters at work, vs my cheap airfilter at home.. I'll go with the ones at work.. less pollen makes me very happy ;-)
<JGJones> Myrtti, what camera did you get?
 * MooDoo doesn't want to go home, as he'll have to either reinstall his server or deal with the mountains of baby clothes in the house lol
<Myrtti> JGJones: Olympus Pen PL-1 in December
<Myrtti> JGJones: they're a lot cheaper now than then, since PL-2 came out
<JGJones> have been interested in the micro fourthirds cameras - like the idea of a more compact camera but still having decent lens
<JGJones> the canon 500D's great...but I often wish it was less bulky sometime.
 * MooDoo wants a new lens.....but 600 is a tad expensive right now
<oracology> i'm out chaps and chapettes. off to work!
<MooDoo> later
<dwatkins> I had to stop myself from buying lenses for my 350D, they can be rather pricey indeed.
<MooDoo> dwatkins, i'm tempted, but the wife would kill me :D
<popey> We're doing UUPC live tonight by the way everyone
<popey> Listen in at http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live at 20:30 UK Time :D
<MooDoo> popey, streaming it as well?
<popey> ya
<MooDoo> popey, i meant video
<popey> oh, no
<MooDoo> that would be fun to see.......
<gord> popey, any good replies on twitter? also interested in a new N AP
<popey>  not yet
<davmor2> popey, gord: I got a tplink one the only think I don't like on it is the dyndns other than that it works fine through out our concrete bunker of a prefab masonette if that helps
<bigcalm> popey: do a limited video stream via google+
<bigcalm> popey: what's wrong with your vm superhub?
<bigcalm> popey: I was very happy with http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002FL4QZC until VM decided to combine modem and router
<bigcalm> Mine is in a draw now
<bigcalm> popey: willing to sell it if you want
<bigcalm> (currently has ddwrt on it)
<bigcalm> !ping
<popey> oooo
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
 * bigcalm hugs lubotu3
<popey> my superhub doesn't reach the other end of the house
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> it's in the furthest corner of the building
<popey> the opposite corner is my bed
<popey> where I like to watch iplayer on ipad
<popey> but cant
<popey> also, my boss wants to buy two, one for upstairs, one for down, and connect via GbE
<bigcalm> Can bring to oggcamp or post
<popey> (we're basically both doing the same)
<bigcalm> Ah, fair enough
<popey> so i only need one
<popey> he needs two :D
<popey> why did you put ddwrt on it out of interest?
<popey> (I have never used ddwrt)
<bigcalm> I wanted more controll over it
<bigcalm> It works very well
<bigcalm> I detest netgear hardware
<bigcalm> I wonder if the netgear router I gave to aquarius is still working
<aquarius> it works fine as a wireless thing. The ports on it don't seem to work, though :)
<bigcalm> Really?
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Sorry man
<bigcalm> Was working before I replaced it with the cisco router
<aquarius> is ok. The only thing I have which is wired right now is the NAS for all my films, and I can live without that for now
<aquarius> the little light for the port lights up when the nas is plugged into it, but it doesn't seem to get an address
<bigcalm> I'm not going to teach you to suck eggs, but I assume you've messed with all of the settings?
<aquarius> I've poked around with it; can't see anything relevant
<bigcalm> Most strange
<bigcalm> Stick ddwrt on it ;)
<aquarius> if it's not picking up stuff plugged into the ports, it's likely a hardware problem, no?
<aquarius> so new firmware won't help
<bigcalm> I did a long reset before bring it over. No other cabled devices about to test with?
<aquarius> nope; they're all in storage ready for the move
<aquarius> my nas is quite shit, though. I need a good one :)
<bigcalm> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<bigcalm> Sorry ;)
<aquarius> :)
<dwatkins> I need a NAS, can't decide between ReadyNAS and Drobo.
<bigcalm> That reminds me of "warning, may contain Langridge"
<gord> i'm saving a bit of cash to build my own nas, fed up of box products being crap
<MooDoo> my netgear nas duo will do me for now
<gord> little mini-itx with a RAID should do the job nicely
<bigcalm> I make do with 500GB USB drives hooked up to the revo
<popey> Ok, having looked at ddwrt, it looks very cool
<popey> bigcalm: lemme know how much you want for it
<dwatkins> gord: if Linux had a way to automatically detect disks like the Drobo, it would be awesome
<Myrtti> I'll just hook up my harddrives to a device with USB and let the device do the sharing
<popey> dwatkins: it kinda does :D
<dwatkins> popey: ooooh
<popey> dwatkins: sata hotswap is possible
<popey> and you can script detection of disks with udev etc
<dwatkins> Does that mean you can implement a Drobo in Ubuntu with no need to go to the commandline when replacing a drive?
<popey> to do stuff like add it to an array
<aquarius> aren't the drobos not very good? popey, you had problems with yours, did you not?
<aquarius> I quite like the idea of a nas that can download stuff by itself; torrents and whatnot
<popey> i did have a bit
<aquarius> my one can in theory, but it just doesn't work :)
<dwatkins> My current NAS is an old ASUS Eee 901 netbook with a large USB disk attached to it.
<gord> i have a little mini-itx without raid right now that downloads torrents and also filters my email as well as being a NAS, its nice to have that
 * dwatkins is reminded to check to see if his little netbook has managed to finish rendering the 1280x800 Companion cube desktop background he left it doing
<dwatkins> wow: Render Time:   8 hours  1 minutes
<MooDoo> dwatkins, what app you using? povray? ;)
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah
<MooDoo> awesome :D
<dwatkins> Yeah, it's nice that you can script it, as I'm terrible with 3D GUIs.
<davmor2> popey: try something other than the ipad it might be sucky antenna in the ipad rather than the router it will at least rule that out first
<popey> davmor2: i have tried other devices too
<davmor2> popey: meh I found some devices had much better reception than others so figured it might be worth pointing out
<popey> oh sure
<popey> and some do work better than others
<popey> but sadly I'm at the opposite end of the house with no reception
<davmor2> popey: that sucks
<popey> I even put a powerline ethernet adapter plugged into the wall next to my bed and plugged an access point into it :D
<davmor2> I get wifi from my router across the road or in the car in the carpark the other end of the flat and the router is on the 4th floor so that is just sucky and my router is the cheapest I could get my hands on that had n builtin so about Â£30-40 I got tired of paying lots for branded ones that died
<kvarley> Doing cp -r * /home/kvarley/Pictures/ from my sd card copies with it the DCIM and other camera folders. How can I copy files recursively without keeping the folder structure intact?
<kvarley> For example there is DCIM > 100PANA > files here and I just want to copy all the files without the cp command keeping the DCIM and 100PANA subdirectories
<popey> cp -r DCIM/100PANA/* /home/kvarley/Pictures/
<kvarley> popey: Thanks once again =)
<kvarley> popey: I'd missed the forward slashes to end the paths
<exobuzz> hi popey
<popey> hey exobuzz !
<dwatkins> MooDoo: http://rowla.dyndns.org/gallery/v/blog/weighted_companion_cube_001.png.html
<dwatkins> I'll probably rename that to "lots of companion cubes" or something similar, but it's just a test image for now.
<MooDoo> dwatkins, did you code that yourself or use a gui?
<dwatkins> MooDoo: someone gave me the scene file for a single cube, I just used it to make a macro and some loops so far.
<MooDoo> nice
<dwatkins> I asked this guy for his source: http://benedek.tspace.nl/?p=117
<MooDoo> dwatkins, wait till you can do this - http://hof.povray.org/mouille.html
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah, that one is amazing
<MooDoo> hof.povray.org
<dwatkins> I have perused it with awe in the past, yeah :)
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> dwatkins, moray is a good frontend if you needed one :D
<MooDoo> am i telling you how to suck eggs? lol
<MooDoo> oh it's stopped dev
<dwatkins> hehe, I've never used a front-end to Povray, so it's interesting to know about those, but I had seen the hall of fame before - not checked it for a while, though, so thanks for reminding me :)
<MooDoo> you're welcome :D
<MooDoo> first time i used povray was on a 486 without the DX part and it took 23 hours to render a pawn :D
<MooDoo> those were the days :D
<dwatkins> oh yeah, I was lucky enough to have a 486 DX2 66, and it felt fast until my friends got Pentiums and Quake came out - I could only run the game in a postage-stamp sized window
<MooDoo> dwatkins, wolfenstein :D
<dwatkins> I grew up with a BBC Micro, so even Wolfenstein was awesome 3D graphics to me ;)
<MooDoo> dwatkins, then you may remember frak :D
<MooDoo> or chuckie egg :D
<dwatkins> both very well, yes - I have beebem now for nostalgia :)
<MooDoo> awesome
<MooDoo> ooo AlanBell i see your presenting tonight, community week
<directhex> pfft, bbc b
<directhex> toff
<directhex> no real people could afford a beeb
 * daubers has almost managed to wedge an atom board into his spectrum
<davmor2> daubers: mis-read that as atom bomb couldn't understand why you would want to do that :D
<daubers> davmor2: Customs would never suspect that!
<exobuzz> did someone say chuckie egg? love that game
<exobuzz> bbc version was very decent
 * MartijnVdS listens to this morning's Fry's English Delight
<exobuzz> i got drunk with the creator of chuckie egg back in 2001 or so. was good fun. met him in the pub outside of xcom 2001 event
<exobuzz> (nigel alderton)
<popey> heh
<exobuzz> i cant find a reference to the event now. maybe it was xcon or something. mym memory sucks
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there an application to extract text from image available in Ubuntu ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: it's called 'OCR'
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: (the thing you want to do)
<kaushal> ok
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: search for that in the software centre
<kaushal> ok
<exobuzz> kaushal, http://www.splitbrain.org/blog/2010-06/15-linux_ocr_software_comparison
<exobuzz> for free software http://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/ seems to do best in their test case
<Myrtti> patience is a virtue too.
<Myrtti> I'm not too keen on seeing the same question here within one minute after asking it on #ubuntu, kaushal
<dogmatic69> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=extract+text+from+images
<exobuzz> popey, regarding a facebook thing you wrote, in terms of "best" what are you looking for with the access point? and how much do you want to spend etc ?
<exobuzz> cheapest route would surely be wireless n access point and then a gigabit switch separately
<popey> yeah, looking at which specific wireless n access point is best
<exobuzz> in terms of power output ?
<exobuzz> i mean you can spend from Â£20 up to Â£lots
<popey> in terms of "best" :D
<exobuzz> lol
<shauno> I'll get booted for this one, but I like my apple routers :)  snmp & ipv6 out of the box, disk & printer sharing built in, etc
<exobuzz> here's a start . cheaper ones are all 10/100 but a gigabit switch is cheap so it might be better to get two units anyway http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopSearch.asp?CategoryID=416&Sort=3
<popey> shauno: you're not the first to suggest apple airport extreme
<popey> exobuzz: i dont want a separate GbE switch
<exobuzz> when you say printer sharing are you talking about usb ?
<popey> hence specifically saying that I want a wifi access point with GbE built in
<shauno> yeah
<exobuzz> popey, then you are going to have to spend more than Â£50 no doubt
<popey> yeah
<popey> money isnt the driver
<popey> "best" is :D
<gord> if its good enough, you save money anyway as you won't be buying a new one in a year ;)
<exobuzz> well. i have no idea what best is. i mean, best for one thing might not be best for another.  :)
<shauno> popey: two things to be aware of with the apple ones tho.  they're only configurable via their tool, not by a web frontend on the box itself.  and it needs to rebooted for every single silly little change you make.  which is annoying
<popey> erk
<popey> yeah you do exobuzz
<exobuzz> not really. but anyway there are some gigabit ones on that page you could hunt down some reviews for em
<Myrtti> belkin had some fairly nice looking boxes
<Myrtti> don't know how good they are tho
<gord> not good
<gord> at least the one i have isn't, the router firmware is terrible
 * MartijnVdS has a Fritz! 7340 ADSL modem/router
<gord> restart after every setting you change, if not the entire box at least your connection and the routing sucks
<MartijnVdS> and it's amazon
<MartijnVdS> amazing*
<popey> so far people have suggested tp link, netgear, cisco linksys and apple
<MartijnVdS> Coworker has the 7390 (connected to 100mbit fibre connection) and it's also great
<gord> i'v enjoyed netgear firmware before
<davmor2> gord: which router is that?
<MartijnVdS> and they don't need a reboot for every change
<gord> davmor2, adsl version of http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/8135054/Belkin-F5D8236uk4-N-Wireless-Cable-DSL-Internet-Gateway-Router/Product.html
<MartijnVdS> they work with DSL and/or a network connection ("WAN" ethernet port)
<shauno> that's what bugs me most with the apple ones.  Apply & Reboot are the same thing.
<davmor2> gord: gave up on belkins after frying 2 the netgear they didn't do much better :(
<davmor2> s/2 the/2 then
<gord> i guess really the best option is using one of those open source firmwares with a router that works great with it
<exobuzz> popey, do you need qos? how many ports do you want? dual band ?
<gord> i'll let popey take the risk and just get what he gets ;)
<exobuzz> what sort of range? you can pay more for ones with better coverage etc
<MartijnVdS> The Fritz! has concurrent dualband 802.11n
<MartijnVdS> and USB ports for disks
<exobuzz> yeh, if you need usb ports also thats another thing
<MartijnVdS> http://www.avm.de/en/Produkte/FRITZBox/FRITZ_Box_Fon_WLAN_7390/index.php
<popey> gord: the cisco linksys one apparently runs ddwrt fine
<exobuzz> my printer is on ethernet under the stairs.  big (but cheap) color laser
<popey> according to bigcalm :D
<popey> exobuzz: nope, none of those things are required
<exobuzz> how many ethernet ports though ?
<diplo> Just grabbing end of this convo, but didn't linksys or similair support ddwrt and helped with some issues ?
 * bigcalm returns to read up
<bigcalm> My ears are burning
<MooDoo> shhhhh bigcalm is rubbish
<MooDoo> bigcalm, dont know what you mean :D
<popey> exobuzz: there is no hard requirement for multiple ethernet ports
<popey> hence not specifying it :D
<bigcalm> MooDoo: this has been known for a very long time :P
<MooDoo> bigcalm, i'm joking of course :D
<bigcalm> :P
 * bigcalm wipes away a tear
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod hello
<MooDoo> davmor2, czajkowski prod hello :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Ubuntu Community Week - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/07/ubuntu-community-week.html
<davmor2> MooDoo: hello you spanner ;)
<popey> i thought MooDoo ran fedora
<popey> or is it windows today
<MooDoo> popey, at work i run fedora, on one of my servers at home it's windows 2008 server, my wife runs windows 7 and i, on my laptop run Natty
<MooDoo> popey, where did that comment come from ?
<MooDoo> popey, after i bigged you up on my post as well ;) lol
<gord> hehe "bigged you up"
<MooDoo> you all knoiw what i mean :D
<popey> I am not sure anyone has ever "bigged" me up âº
<MooDoo> does "bigged" mean something i'm not aware of then :) lol
<popey> It means you're probably not over 35, and probably come from the ghetto.
<Laney> "Spare Time for You to Read "The Art of Community" haha
<MooDoo> must be time for me to grow up as i'm past 35 lol
<popey> :D
<popey> yeah, that made me chuckle Laney
<Laney> man 35 is sooooooo old, alright gramps?
 * popey gets his ear trumpet
<popey> Hmmm?
<popey> get off my lawn!
 * DJones noticed the ageism creeping into the channel
<Laney> DJones: don't worry, i've got plenty of werthers
<Laney> they love that
 * MooDoo is 40 next year :( :S
<popey> same here
<DJones> 40 next year....Kids today :)
<popey> shhh! he's back
<popey> heh
<Laney> 26 next year :'(
<MooDoo> ubuntu uk 40th i think :)
<Laney> it means i am no longer 18-25 and therefore must be mature
 * daubers looks confused
 * Laney gives daubers a beano
<daubers> \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: You're a big bloke and we ain't killing ourselves giving you the bumps, so we'll just push you off the roof of a high building okay ;)
<daubers> Everyone we know loves the beano!
<hippychick> afternoon everyone
<oimon> i caught myself telling people i'm 35, but i've been 36 for about 4-5 months
<oimon> :S
 * MartijnVdS wonders where to buy stroopwafels in bulk
<dwatkins> From the stroopwafels manufacturer, MartijnVdS?
<Laney> oh man, I /love/ those
<oimon> i haven't corrected myself yet though, i just careful not to say it while wifey is in earshot
<dwatkins> They are lovely with a nice cup of tea.
<MooDoo> davmor2, you calling me fat?
<Laney> they have something quite similar in lidl
<davmor2> MooDoo: no I said big :P
<daubers> Oooh tea
<daubers> Need to get some nice tea for oggcamp
<MooDoo> davmor2, hee hee :D   i might have to come to london for beers next year :)
<Daviey> MooDoo: I went to your blog, but i need to increase my screen resolution to read the content due to it being pushed offscreen by the adverts.
<JGJones> Bah, I'm 21.
<MooDoo> Daviey, yeah sorry i'm just in the process of removing all the <insert offensive work> off it
<JGJones> Have been for the last 12 years now.
 * daubers will be 26 this year :(
 * MartijnVdS will be 31 :(
<gord> i still sometimes put 23 in to forms and such, brain can't accept i ever passed that age
 * hippychick is 23
<MooDoo> Daviey, i've removed the rubish banners, should be a little smaller now, i hope
<davmor2> MooDoo: When I were lad we had to make do with cardboard box to live in......youngsters today you tell them that and do they believe you do they bol.....
<Daviey> MooDoo: perfect!
 * hippychick is finding it difficult to type on the laptop with a ferret asleep over it...
<MooDoo> Daviey, there are just a lot of ubuntu banners and things at the bottom of the page :)
<MartijnVdS> hippychick: eat ferret, done :)
<hippychick> MartijnVdS, i cant eat him!!! even though he does look scummy...
<MartijnVdS> hippychick: I'm not a pet person, can you tell? :)
<popey> Daviey: there are adverts on MooDoo's blog?
<popey> I haven't seen them :D
<hippychick> MartijnVdS, aww, but he is sweet, only 8 weeks old bless him
<MooDoo> i've removed them....i was experimenting
<davmor2> popey: switch off adblock and try again
<Daviey> popey: don't make me whip out my squid filtering on you!
<MooDoo> ok blog - 100% less clutter on it
<popey> hah
<Daviey> is that possible?
<MooDoo> yeah i took of all the adverts and things that were calling other stuff from external locations
<Daviey> clutter being subjective.
<davmor2> MooDoo: you still posting stuff to it?  if so you only got rid of the commercial clutter ;)
 * popey declutters the channel
<MooDoo> davmor2, /me makes a mental note to check blog before posting anything to the planet site......
<popey>  /kick daviey
<Daviey> I could make my blog less cluttered, but then it would be less useful http://blog.daviey.com
<MooDoo> lol
<Laney> incisive
<oimon> it's really difficult to read static text on the web when there are animated ads
<oimon> it's a shame, because sites i like to support by disabling adblock seem to employ it a lot :(
<gord> oimon, turn off animated gifs in firefox?
<gord> they'll still show, but not animate
<MartijnVdS> you can press ESC and they'll stop animating
<oimon> gord: i think they are flash..maybe flashblock is better
<gord> i flashblock everything, adblock sites by default and remove adblock if i use them often
<bigcalm> Can you feed wget a file of URLs and it'll leech them one by one?
<oimon> hmm chromium doesn't seem to have option to diable animation of gifs
<hamitron> bigcalm: the -i arguement
<hamitron> iirc
<bigcalm> That simple? :)
 * bigcalm gives it a go
<hamitron> wget -h
<dwatkins> lynx --dump ;)
<bigcalm> Humm, all of the URLs end in /download, so all of the files as being saved as download.n
<bigcalm> Grumble
<bigcalm> The download links in the browser save as propper filenames
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahahahahhaahah  yeah knock off the windows ads ;)
<popey> heh
<exobuzz> popey, so access point with 1 ethernet would suffice? because in that case why would you need gigabit for example?
<popey> exobuzz: because access points can go faster than 100Mb/s
<exobuzz> i doubt you would get over 100mbit
<popey> why?
<Myrtti> if the aim was to chain two accesspoints, and transfer data between devices connected to each, then I'm sure they'd go about gigabit speed
<exobuzz> i dont have wireless N but, i think 100mbit would be fairly optimistic perhaps. i could be wrong. isnt the reported wireless speed the addition of both upstream and downstream combined anyway, so even 150mbit wireless N at theoretical max would fit within 100mbit ethernet speeds
<gord> erm
<gord> my wireless N device is currently connected at 121MB/s
<gord> just fyi
<MooDoo> davmor2, no more ads on my site.
<gord> 150 now
<exobuzz> gord, actual speed test is better than connected speed
<exobuzz> the connected speed doesnt mean a great deal
<exobuzz> benchmark a transfer
<exobuzz> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605-13.html
<exobuzz> perhaps they is that mbit or megabyte hmm.. 80 megabyte seems a little too much :)
<exobuzz> -perhaps they
<dwatkins> I complained to BT about my ADSL speed, they sent me a link to their own speed test with a Java applet.
<exobuzz> its megabits ok
<exobuzz> so 80mbit being the fastest in their tests
<Kirrus> Does anyone know of a good, encrypted, password manager that can handle being copied around multiple machines, or has a server component that stores them?
<shauno> I think gige is a fairly sane requirement.  I consider 100mbit legacy, and legacy isn't something I expect when looking for 'best in class' equipment
<bigcalm> This is what we like to see :) 149,145,629 3.87M/s   in 38s
<exobuzz> shauno, but it doesnt matter if you have a access point that will never do more than 100mbit with a single port
<exobuzz> shauno, i mean, paying for something that you cant use otherwise
<bigcalm> Though I'm sure Soundcloud will clobber my connection at some point. 151 files to leech
<shauno> why not? my isp offers 100mbit.  what happens when they offer more? I replace that money-no-object router?
<exobuzz> shauno, access point. not router.
<shauno> they're the same thing in my house
<exobuzz> whats that got to do with it.
<exobuzz> i said access point with a single port. i didnt say router
<exobuzz> and anyway.. with adsl router. it would be fine with 100mbit if you didnt require lan gigabit, depends on what sort of connection you have in terms of technology
<popey> Kirrus: keepass
<popey> Kirrus: database held on spideroak sync'ed folder
<bigcalm> There we go, now getting about 70K/s from soundcloud
<exobuzz> the reason im talking about this, is to clarify the issue of wireless N speeds and whether you need faster than 100mbit to handle it. and from my research you dont really
<bigcalm> My bad :)
<Kirrus> cheers popey
<popey> np
<exobuzz> and if popey didn't need the gigabit ethernet as part of his lan (access point with single ethernet port), then he would have a wider choice of hardware and so on.
<popey> I'd rather the bottleneck wasn't 100Mb ethernet
<popey> I have GbE, I'd like to use it
<exobuzz> sure, but it wouldnt be.. i cant find a single person who has done real 100mbit speeds
<exobuzz> if your wireless n can only do 80mbit, the 100mbit isnt a bottleneck, and the gigabit ethernet would just be wasted in this case. of a multiport device, there is more reason to use gigabit of course
<exobuzz> i think thats the reason why so many wireless n access points dont have gigabit. they dont need it
 * daubers really want's to get a decent WAP and get rid of the combined router/access point
<daubers> they're all more or less junk these days
<exobuzz> i prefer single devices that do their job well over all in ones
<exobuzz> also annoying if you get an expensive adsl router with lots of stuff, and then you switch to something otehr than adsl or so
<exobuzz> i mostly use gigabit wired connections around the house. couple of 5 port gigabit switches, but there are some bits of the network on 100 still such as a pc, xbox1 and the main adsl router
<exobuzz> my amiga 4000 has 10mbit to 100mbit part of the network. it cant even max out the 10mbit though. and my a1200 does about 2mbit ;-)
<exobuzz> my a500 does 20KB/second over parallel port (magplip)
<shauno> I tihnk the only ethernet devices I have left that aren't gige, are my modem and my ups
<DJones> It lives....http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx and supplier with Ubuntu 10.10 ready to install
<exobuzz> DJones, i can think of a nicer case for a miniitx board mind, although i loike the c64 breadbin case, i prefer it with a real c64 inside..
<exobuzz> pricey too, although i guess thats due to the small numbers..
<DJones> I wonder what games designers would have done with 2gb of memory on a C64 :)
<daubers> DJones: Supplied you with hundreds of floppy disks to use it?
<DJones> daubers: Heh, I like that idea
<exobuzz> DJones, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdUzJL5XqBQ ?
<DJones> I wonder how much data you could store a C90 cassette tape
<exobuzz> real action starts at 2:20
<shauno> I wonder how on earth an 8bit would address 2Gb :)
<exobuzz> demo with data streamed from 16MB REU (actually 1541 ultimate card)
<exobuzz> ok not 2gb but
<shauno> (altho 256 pages on a 16bit bus gives 256*64k.  16Mb would be nothing to sniff at for an 8bit ;)
<bigcalm> Rick Rolled :'(
<exobuzz> hehe
<bigcalm> Thing is, I don't mind that track
<exobuzz> <3 music from demo scener 4-mat (and he codes too!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h15lmJQkdhg - love the tune in this one (mostly in part2)
<exobuzz> <3 c64
<bigcalm> There is a lot of magic stuff to be found on the youtubes
<exobuzz> yeh
<exobuzz> how about a new version of space harrier on the old atari 8 bitters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B-_6-RuJR0 - pretty impressive stuff
<DJones> If anybody is interested in a cheap tablet, Asda are selling old spec & model Archos machines for < Â£100 http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/18/asda_offloads_affordable_fondleslab/
<matti> DJones: Nice.
<exobuzz> thats cheap
<dwatkins> DJones: without looking, I would be willing to bet a smartie or two that it only runs Android 2.1 ;)
<bigcalm> Think I'll stick with my Kogan Agora (which I'm not really using either)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: you get 2 smarties
<dwatkins> woohoo!
<exobuzz> still not as cheap as a joggler .. although perhaps more useful for some tasks. hehe
<DJones> dwatkins: From memory, I think it might even pre android 2.1
 * popey hugs ipad
<bigcalm> exobuzz: I'm tempted to make a wee stand for my Kogan tablet so that it can replace the Joggler at my bedside
<dwatkins> DJones: "...running an outdated OS, Android 2.1 Ãclair, on an 800 x 600 resistive touchscreen."
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> exobuzz: I'm tempted to make a wee stand for my Kogan tablet so that it can replace the Joggler at my bedside
<dwatkins> I still can't believe the guy on hack-a-day who built a tablet from scratch.
<exobuzz> i flinced when popey hugged his ipad and accidently closed the window
<exobuzz> bigcalm, i dont know that device. ill have to look it up
<DJones> dwatkins: I hadn't read the full article, was just from what I thought I'd rememebred from originally looking at them
<dwatkins> aha I see DJones :)
<exobuzz> bigcalm, my joggler does the job nicely in my kitchen and by the bed. in the bed i use xbmc and music/radio etc which it does well.
<exobuzz> only the touchscreen is slightly dodgy. could be more accurate. but im still pleased with how it has been overall
<popey> dwatkins: link?
<exobuzz> wasnt ben heck was it ? although he would make a c64 tablet or something heh
<dwatkins> popey: http://hackaday.com/2011/07/17/dont-buy-an-ipad-make-one/
<dwatkins> exobuzz: he's pretty amazing too
<exobuzz> yeh.. makes me jealous seeing what he can do
<popey> blimey
<bigcalm> That was good
<MooDoo> no you know where your knocks ofs come from :D
<bigcalm> It's all just him!
 * daubers ponders removing 16 LDRs and one multiplexer from his circuit diagram
<diplo> Canonical guys, what is the text editor you guys use that you share / edit at the same time ?
<diplo> Can't remember for life of me atm
<diplo> And my goo foo is sucking
<Laney> etherpad
<Laney> (~notcanonical)
<diplo> nah, think it may be gobby ?
<diplo> just found it after asking
<diplo> gobby
<gord> no one uses gobby anymore
<gord> its terribad
<diplo> What is the bad part of it, only want it for a quick edit
<gord> it will sometimes lose everyones documents
<gord> which is pretty bad
<gord> etherpad is much better, or google docs if you wanted to use that
<diplo> Can't execute those after changing though
<oimon> guys, do nvidia cards  have any major known problems with 11.04?
<diplo> But those do sound like some bad bugs
<gord> oimon, 7100 sucks and is buggy, the rest should be fine
<oimon> gord, it's an onboard 6150 geforce :-\
<oimon> can't really afford to buy a proper card, and usually run 10.04, which runs great
<gord> oimon, oh, good luck :)
<gord> worst comes to worst, you use the classic session, will work fine
<oimon> oh, i will use classic for sure
<oimon> unity is not compatible with my brain unfortunately
<gord> oh if your not using unity then you shouldn't be worried, your just using 2d acceleration basically
<gord> put pixel here!
<gord> new gwibber is nice :)
<gord> had it running a few weeks ago, but i'm using it for the first time proper day to day now :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<MartijnVdS> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hi.
<brobostigon> :)
 * MartijnVdS waits for the oven to heat up sufficiently
<MartijnVdS> *beeps*
<brobostigon> yummy, foodz.
<bigcalm> Moar coffee!
<brobostigon> nice beer please, <-----
<bigcalm> Wow, 7.30pm
<bigcalm> What an unproductive day
<czajkowski> bigcalm: 5:40
<bigcalm> czajkowski: getting things done now
<kappa> have problem for install ubuntu in netbook acer for so win7 and android
<ali1234> it's too quiet in here
<MartijnVdS> WHAT?
<MartijnVdS> I CAN'T HEAR YOU IT'S TOO QUIET
<suprengr> boo!
<czajkowski> http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_11
<czajkowski> http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_18
<AlanBell> its all about you you you ;)
<daubers> evening
<ali1234> never mind the 2d version finished... i want to see the 3d version finished
<popey> heh ali1234
<bigcalm_lappy486> Yo
<hippychick> hello
<ali1234> popey: jorge's answer didn't really satisfy me, but thanks for trying :)
<ali1234> btw i am still using unity, i haven't given up yet
<ali1234> every day i hit the same annoying bugs
<Azelphur> is there any way to tell what's causing load averages to spike?
<Azelphur> I can't see anything special in iotop or top, but sometimes my load averages spike really high and then go down
<Azelphur> and it takes like 30 seconds just to get an ssh connection
<zleap> Azelphur, can you display system monitor in the task bar thing at the top, one of the options is load average,  you may be able to see when it spikes and relate that to what you are doing at the time
<Azelphur> this is a server, so no GUI
<zleap> ok
<brobostigon> top ?
<AlanBell> htop
<brobostigon> :)
<zleap> http://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/how-to-monitor-your-system-performance-in-ubuntu-linux/
<zleap> check out that page, scroll down it refers to a program called saidar
<zleap> which seems to do the same as the monitor program but for the console
<Azelphur> http://thesun.co.uk
<Azelphur> lmao, LulzSec strikes again \o/
<zleap> lol i thought they had disbanded
<zleap> or were going to
<Azelphur> me too, guess they got bored again
<zleap> lol,  so is saidar what you are looking for
<CarlosRonceros> Is it worth going for the ubuntu professional training?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-19
<ali1234> "who is louise boat?"
<ali1234> LOL
<Jora> hi
<HazRPG> morning \o
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: How's it going?
<MartijnVdS> good, but I'm up way too early :)
<HazRPG> same really ^_^
<AlanBell> morning
<GreenDance> Hi, could someone tell me please, what is the replacement for nfs-user-server
<MartijnVdS> GreenDance: nfs-kernel-server - support for NFS kernel server
<GreenDance> Thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> it's faster too
<GreenDance> :)
<j0nr> morning folks (to any unfortunate enough to already be half an hour into work)
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<dwatkins> mornin'
<MooDoo> morning all
<GreenDance> morning all
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> all, morning
<DJones> Morning folks
<popey> anyone else got a cupcake in their chrome browser today?
<popey> http://twitpic.com/5sdu7c
<MooDoo> not me
<MooDoo> popey, mutiple profiles turned on?  apparently it's default icon when they are
<MooDoo> http://chromestory.com/2011/06/your-own-google-chrome-with-an-avatar-to-add-color-multiprofiles/?replytocom=12046
<MooDoo> as you've discovered yourself by your facebook post :D
<AlanBell> popey: http://www.ghacks.net/2011/07/19/google-chrome-cupcake-icon/
<AlanBell> so don't delete the default profile seems good advice
<AlanBell> what an odd icon for them to choose
<Apacheuk> AlanBell: Its Google, whats odd for normal people is the norm for Google :)
<dwatkins> nice icon
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> hi daubers
<dwatkins> I'm surprised the cupcake can't be disabled, however.
<MooDoo> hi daubers
<daubers> Why would you disable a cupcake? Just _eat_ it!
<MooDoo> why did i think of michael jackson after that last sentence?
<popey> I need to order some RAM for my Eee 900's
<popey> one has 512MB, one has 1GB, they run a bit slow
<daubers> I need to clean/reformat my eee
<daubers> make it ready for OU stuffs
<MooDoo> daubers, what course you doing?
<daubers> MooDoo: TU100, it's the first part of the CS degree
<daubers> Need to put in for one of the maths ones too
<popey> yay, ordered
 * bigcalm consideres himself quite ordered
<hoover> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning hoover
 * MooDoo upgraged to oneiric last night :D
<popey> Pro-tip: Don't ssh to the kids laptops and run "apt-get install" something when they're out of sight. They both just shut the lids, suspending them.
<popey> Hopefully it will just carry on when they open the lid later
<hoover> yay! a new lugradio episode ;-D
<MooDoo> it's been a long time coming :D
<oimon> popey: what's running on the eee 900 right now?
<hoover> Indeed
<popey> oimon: Ubuntu 11.04
<hoover> I only deleted their RSS last year or so ;-)
<oimon> if i remember correct, the 900 has the same processor as the 701
<popey> it does
<popey> but the 701 is underclocked to 600MHz
<oimon> would be perfect for chrome os , if it worked :(
<popey> the 900 runs at 900MHz
<oimon> running lubuntu at the mo, but distros have never stayed more than 3-6 months on it
<bigcalm> Updating base-files. Reboot required?
<popey> nah
 * dwatkins sends BT a long e-mail describing the fact his broadband stopped working when he prepared to run their broadband speed test
 * bigcalm continues then :)
<bigcalm> I wonder when dabs will ship my ssd
<oimon> i got mine in 1 day from dabs, even with the economy shipping :D
<dwatkins> What size SSDs are you people getting? I'm curious as to where the sweet-spot for price vs capacity is
<bigcalm> Luck of the draw. I've had shipping sped up in the past from different suppliers. No rush for me though. I won't have time to install it until next month sometime
<bigcalm> I went for a 60gb for Â£79.99
<oimon> got a 128gb samsung one
<oimon> for a colleague
<oimon> Â£180
 * dwatkins will do some comparative research
<dwatkins> did y'all get them from Amazon?
<bigcalm> Dabs.com
<dwatkins> I'll compare with scan.co.uk also as they're good for some things
<bigcalm> I would have bought from Amazon, but the price was fluctuating and then went over the Dabs.com price
<gord> i have 64gb ones, i use hard-drives for storage and honestly 32gb will do you fine for ubuntu without storage
<bigcalm> Yay for Invisible Hand plugin for web browsers
<oimon> ooerr sounds a bit pervy
<bigcalm> I think popey introducted me to it
<oimon> what's the catch with it?
<oimon> ah ok: If you buy a product after clicking on the button in an InvisibleHand notification, the retailer or seller pays us a small commissio
<oimon> might check it out
<dwatkins> also, check out quidco - you get the commission through them instead of someone else
<oimon> my quota at work is full so i'm checking some directories...amazed to find my wine directory is 500MB! i only use it for word viewer
<HarryHaaren> Mornin!
<MooDoo> morning HarryHaaren
<dwatkins> oimon: can't you use googledocs instead?
<dwatkins> ...or abiword
<popey> blimey
<popey> people actually use word viewer
<Daviey> I thought word viewer was one of the few reasons mst-corefonts could be distributed.
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<oimon> word viewer is handy to see if an openoffice doc is viewed ok in ms office
<oimon> it's my only way to find out, and rather handy
<oimon> since i share docs with office using colleagues regularly
<hippychick> Killer Ferret on the Loose!!!
<directhex> hippychick, is it a cute killer ferret?
<hippychick> directhex, yes very much so :)
<hippychick> directhex, he is 8 weeks old so he is still learning the world
<directhex> this is where someone says they smell, and you describe it as a "pleasing musk"
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<bigcalm> directhex: I was about to say that the females tend not to smell. But then read that it's a he
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski again for oi-ing ;)
<czajkowski> >:(
<czajkowski> behave
<davmor2> czajkowski: sorry I'm in a good mood :P
<czajkowski> oh joy
<hippychick> the females dont smell as bad as the males
<hippychick> but a neutered male smells about as bad as a female
<hippychick> unfortunatly with him being only 8 weeks he cannot be neutered yet, so he does smell
<davmor2> ah ferrets
<hippychick> lol
<czajkowski> god I was looking for some context there
<dwatkins> We got rats this weekend, I'm hoping they don't smell too bad.
<hippychick> we got our 4th fuzzie Friday night
<hippychick> dwatkins, oly loves rats, so dont tell him!
<popey> hello hippychick
 * dwatkins remains quiet ;)
<hippychick> hi popey \o/
 * popey wonders when we're going to have a Google+ Ubuntu-UK Hangout-a-thon
 * Laney strips off
<Laney> NOW!
<JGJones> well it take one to start a hangout :)
 * JGJones watch a tumbleweed rolling past....I don't think anyone's taking your offer up Laney.
<Laney> this is one of the saddest days of my life :(
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<czajkowski> I never tire of that
<Laney> that's weird
<Laney> if you view the image the tumbleweed blows in the other direction
<JGJones> My recommendation is to do it wearing a mankini, you'll get more success that way Laney :)
<JGJones> popey - heh...do you have  a page for every meme going? :)
<bigcalm> I did something silly with popey's tumbleweed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/5863158335/in/photostream
<Laney> nice theme
<Daviey> popey: horizontal flip eh?
<Daviey> very snazy.
<bigcalm> Theme?
<gord> horizontal flip? what kind of sorcery is this?!
<bigcalm> CSS
<popey> Daviey: people complained the tumbleweed tumbled the wrong way
<Daviey> popey: i feel conned.
<gord> its official. the internet will complain about anything
<bigcalm> Heh
<JGJones> Very true :)
<daev> ALLAHJEZERA ALLAH BE PRAISED!!
<popey> ALL HAIL THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!
<hippychick> lol, just as you said that popey my ferret fell off the sofa...
<popey> hippychick: Beware his noodly appendage!
<hippychick> hehe
<davmor2> gord: Oh no they won't and how dare you insinuate that they would :D
<daev> i love ferrets! i have two polecats :p
<davmor2> bigcalm: calm I'd say yay and get all excited only it won't play in my browser flippin flash I got 64bit 11beta and it still says I need to install the latest version
<hippychick> daev, we have a silver mixed Hob, a sandy Hob, a polecat Jill, and a 8 week old polecat hob
<daev> beta's do tend to be buggy. the time lost by correcting an unstable version is probably never balanced by that gained of 64bit flash over 32flash
<daev> I think one of my Hobs might have some mixed as his eyes are black but reflect red opposed to the normal sea green colour.
<hippychick> our Sandy has black or red eyes depending on how much light is in the room, i always say it depends on what mood he is in :P
<daev> my jill had silver fur until she was spade :( they are both wonderful though
<daev> hahaha that's funny
<hippychick> our Jill isnt too well, at the moment, had to rush her to the vets, though she should be fine after a course of antibiotics
<daev> i recently lost a hob to a respitory desiese. It was a cryin share because he was a proper funny ferret. a bit dappy and a big alcoholic. but he was PURE muscle. there was no scruff on his nech and larger albinos who visited once couldnt dominate him and he protected all the others of my group. amazing to watch how social they are
<daev> shame*
<hippychick> we have to have the kit in the living room with us for the moment, the other 3 have grouped together and they are not letting him in
<hippychick> having to introduce them slowly
<daev> it can be a tedium at times. but the rewards of having a happy family are unmatched by any other pet i've found. and i've had dogs, tortoises, birds, hedgehogs, fish, mice, snakes, and many more. ferrets just win. the smell however is an unfortunate equilibrium
<hippychick> i dont really notice the smell too much
<hippychick> i found my parents dogg smelt more
<hoover> any slowaris buffs around?
<hoover> never mind, just googled the question ;-)
<dwatkins> patchlevel fun?
<MooDoo> another quiet day in the trenches
 * davmor2 fires some mortars in MooDoo general direction to liven his day up a little
<MooDoo> davmor2, why thank you kind sir, it's so boring i can't even be bothered to abuse czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: make his day abuse him a little
 * bigcalm returns to haunt you all
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 and MooDoo to the naughty step
<MooDoo> .me rebels as my 2 year old does on a daily basis......NO!
<Daviey> bah, the naughty step is where all the cool people hang out.  Like the kitchen at a party.
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> Daviey: your spot is well and truly etched there
<Daviey> \o/
<MooDoo> dents in the step where your bum is usually sat :)
<davmor2> Daviey: come join the cool kids
 * Daviey has the realisation that they let anyone onto these steps now.
<davmor2> Daviey: you're right czajkowski let you on it :P
<Daviey> bah
<davmor2> Daviey: Sorry couldn't resist ;)
<czajkowski> feckers
<MooDoo> czajkowski, come be naughty and join us
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> I'm good!
<MooDoo> czajkowski, pah rubbish
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're never good so you may as well come and be trouble on the step you know you want too
<MooDoo> +1
<czajkowski> you can't prove it so I am :)
 * MooDoo looks at his note pad and tries to find some dirt on czajkowski 
<gord> if you ask me, #u-uk is the definition of the naughty step.
<davmor2> gord: +1
 * MooDoo joins #naughtystep lol
 * davmor2 joins #naughtystep too
 * davmor2 taunts czajkowski from the safety of #naughtystep
<oimon> what's the best full diagnostic test of a system? already run memtest...
<BigRedS> migrate a popular website onto it?
<oimon> maybe glxgears for 5 hours,
<BigRedS> what're you testing for?
<davmor2> oimon: what's wrong with the system
<oimon> nothing i hope, but wanna make sure all systems are functinoing
<BigRedS> bonnie?
<oimon> could run some stress tests for a few hours
<oimon> bonnie is good idea for IO, maybe i'll run geekbench for few hrs
<oimon> need to learn how to use the phoronix suite
<davmor2> oimon: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486495
<oimon> davmor2: sweeet, test suite live!
<oimon> merci buckets
<davmor2> oimon: I've had a look there is only mockery in this bucket, there is no mercy ;)
 * oimon produces another bucket
<oimon> stress test live can go on my multiboot usb stick
<popey> http://stallman.eventbrite.com/
<MooDoo> popey, registereed
<AlanBell> he is great, but I think I have seen him enough now
<oimon> surely the message is rather similar each time
<Laney> hah, they got that arranged
<MooDoo> never seen him so it's a good opportunity
<AlanBell> similar, but not the same, he adds and removes random stuff, generally more esoteric random political opinions get added
<Laney> local too
<popey> We (podcast) got a mail from someone to promote it
 * popey notes that the mail was sent to nobody, but probably BCC'ed a number of people
<popey> and starts with "I love your podcast"
<popey> so I suspect it was spammed out to a number of shows
<oimon> i love $podcast
<popey> which makes me even less inclined to read it out
<oimon> spodcast is a good name for a geek show!
<popey> tempted to send a snarky reply
<oimon> maybe he/she really does love all the podcasts they sent it to
<popey> perhaps
<JGJones> Am wondering...does Unity come with some sort of a search - beagle or tracker?
<davmor2> JGJones: comes with zeitgiest
<JGJones> zeitgiest's more of a event-tracking thing isn't it?
<gord> it tracks everything
<JGJones> rather than a desktop search like tracker
<JGJones> gord - I'm looking for a document which I can remember some of the content...zeitgiest's not finding it
<davmor2> JGJones: Nope covers everything
<gord> the idea is eventually that if you copy a file, or download a file or whatever, if a file gets on your system zeitguist will know about it, so rather than crawling all your files, eating up your battery life and cpu, it just knows because it gets told when the file first appears
<davmor2> JGJones: are you using the files lens or the dash?
<JGJones> ah...well the document haven't been opened for quite some time, long before I upgraded to unity
<JGJones> so prior to zeitgiest
<JGJones> davmor2, files lens
<jpds> Funnily, document stuff has nothing to do with a "time spirit".
<oimon> just converted another user to ubuntu :D
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> yay
<MooDoo> wooyoo....i'm still working on the wife, and the next time i've got to fix the parents/sisters laptop from a virus, they are having it :D
<oimon> the speed of the usb install is a winner, shame it sometimes needs pro intervention on the install side by side with vista option
<oimon> i think they will mainly be using ubuntu since the vista was not behaving logically
<jimmie> Hey lads dont suppose anyone has two minutes to help me work through a wee problem do they?
<oimon> software centre is a massive win
<oimon> !info texmaker
<lubotu3> texmaker (source: texmaker): cross-platform LaTeX editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2.1-1ubuntu1 (natty), package size 875 kB, installed size 2136 kB
<dwatkins> What's up, jimmie?
<oimon> !info texmaker lucid
<lubotu3> texmaker (source: texmaker): cross-platform LaTeX editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.9.9-2 (lucid), package size 760 kB, installed size 1948 kB
<BigRedS> jimmie: probably. What's your actual question?
<^aDaM> Hi guys I am trying to watch a film and it feeezes an repeats the sound of the movie an I have to press the 'reset button' on the tower, also when I leave a few downloads on the go it seems to restart its self at random times an it ends up on Windows XP as that is the default OS in the GRUB Menu! :/
<^aDaM> Can anyone explain to me why it is doing this? Ive updated Ubuntu an it still crashes.
<brobostigon> ^aDaM: sounds like pulseaudio is sucking resources, open htop in a terminal. and see what is going on.
<brobostigon> ^aDaM: change the players output to something else than pulseaudio, and try again/
<popey> if its restarting when doing downloads it could be a hardware issue
<popey> overheating or perhaps memory failure
<brobostigon> true, i was just thinking about the sound.
<^aDaM> I knew it would be that ill give it ago brobostigon.
<^aDaM> Cheers popey!
<brobostigon> ^aDaM: also consider what popey said, aswell, for the other issue.
<^aDaM-PC> Hi guy
<^aDaM-PC> s..
<jimmie> Gah sorry guys stuff stopped working
<brobostigon> linus is on google+
<^aDaM-PC> brobostigon: When I install htop I get this message.. I did an update then tryed again and its not working still :/
<^aDaM-PC> Pastebin of Terminal: http://pastebin.com/AcPAqFiM
<jimmie> Basically im trying to follow: http://www.ubunturoot.com/2011/05/how-to-installcompile-elementary.html
<oimon> brobostigon: he tends to say jerk-y things in the past..not as bad as sabdfl's twitter feed though :-o
<^aDaM-PC> Dose anyone know how I could get my fan to full speed on my Graphics Card? I forgot how to do it, forgot the commands and stuff as I have not been using computers for a while :D
<jimmie> But, this happens:
<jimmie> immie@jimmie-PC:/$ bzr branch lp:~cldx3000/slingshot/experimental
<jimmie> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
<jimmie> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
<jimmie> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "/experimental": [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/experimental'
<jimmie> Even when i login it says that
<brobostigon> oimon: ok, interesting.
<brobostigon> ^aDaM-PC: that means the hashes dont match, between the package, and the package list.
<jimmie> and harps on about getting umpteen other things, none of which are necessary according to the guide
<^aDaM-PC> brobostigon: Oh right..
<oimon> brobostigon: if he (linus) writes exclusively about linux i'd add him though
<brobostigon> ^aDaM-PC: not a clue myself how to fix it, find someone with more apt experience than me,. sorry/
<brobostigon> oimon: ok, interesting,i will subscribe and see what i think.
<oimon> hehe i might put him in my ubuntu fans circle
<brobostigon> :)
<jpds> jimmie: why are you branching that into your / folder?
<jpds> jimmie: And not saying, your home directory?
<jpds> s/saying/say/
<jpds> jimmie: Do in the terminal: cd; bzr branch lp:~cldx3000/slingshot/experimental
<jimmie> Ahaha!
<jimmie> It appears to be doing something
<jimmie> You beautiful man
<popey> Correct
<popey> jpds is indeed a beautiful lady.
<bigcalm> o.O
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Downloading SoundCloud Playlists - http://www.myrant.net/2011/07/19/downloading-soundcloud-playlists/
<bigcalm> Oh, I forgot I'm part of the planet
<Mez> Well, not going to be able to sleep tonight! Just been told I'm up on a hiring committee today (US time) - so next 8 hours I'll know...
<MartijnVdS> Mez: good luck
<Mez> MartijnVdS: cheers!
 * MartijnVdS got something very "lekker" for the Books and Butties meetup :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.lotusbakeries.nl/lotus/view.php?page_id=670 :)
<bigcalm> Google translate is funny
<bigcalm> Stuur deze ingevulde briefkaart samen met de originele kassabon op naar;Lotus Speculoos Euro-ActieAntwoordnummer 11856200 VB Maastricht(postzegel niet nodig)Actievoorwaarden:
<bigcalm> Becomes
<bigcalm> Send this completed postcard together with the original receipt up to, Lotus Speculoos Euro Action Antwoordnummer one thousand one hundred eighty-five six thousand two hundred VB Maastricht (postage required) Terms and Conditions:
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: there's supposed to be a space between 1185 and 6200
<MartijnVdS> or a newline actually
<bigcalm> I'm sure there was, google translate is a mess at times though :)
<bigcalm> Amused that it converted digits to words
<MartijnVdS> that's a bit weird, yes :)
<popey> evening all
<Azelphur> Is there such thing as a printer you can get to use once every never?
<Azelphur> Something cheap that I can use to print something off maybe once a month without it ceasing up due to lack of use
<hippychick> Azelphur, not sure if you find one let me know :)
<Azelphur> hehe :p
<hippychick> Azelphur, i alway use the one at work for the odd things i need to print
<GreenDance> Hi, there's a website I'm trying to find, I've lost it, basically the website offers a repo as the website owner builds the latest apache and php, does anyone know the url to the website please?
<ging> Azelphur: that has never happened to me with any printer and i never use a printer as regularly as once a month
<Azelphur> fun
<shauno> my last printer stopped working when moss started growing in & on it :/
<ging> shauno: did you take it to a field and beat it with a baseball bat listening to rap music ?
<shauno> nah.  I just left it in the garage when we moved
<shauno> (it was a dumb dotmatrix.  it didn't require beating.  very obedient :)
<Azelphur> so, cheap and cheerful Ubuntu compatible printers? :P
<Azelphur> preferably color, but it doesn't need to be fast
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have a CP1515n from HP and I love it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: will probably last me ~15 years ;)
<Azelphur> seems a bit beefy
<popey> my boss has a nice wireless colour laser
<popey> he got sick of doing printing now and then, and the ink drying out between
<Azelphur> ah, lasers don't have any drying out problems?
<popey> nope
<Azelphur> so I guess I'm looking for a cheap laser
<MartijnVdS> toner is dry already :)
<popey> i got rid of a laser recently
<MartijnVdS> mine even does IPv6
<popey> i had the same toner in it for about 5 years
<MartijnVdS> My old laser printer was a second-hand HP Laserjet 5 from the mid-90s
<popey> yeah, mine was 2nd hand too
<popey> bought a toner off ebay
<MartijnVdS> it died after moving twice (too many bumps, I guess), after 12 years of service
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> popey: getting fed up with forgetting to renew my giffgaff goodybags, think I'll knock up some python to do it :)
<Azelphur> does this interest you?
<popey> hah
<popey> i dont use my giffgaff
 * popey looks around for the sim
<Azelphur> hehe, giffgaff is my main provider
<Azelphur> suits me nicely the allowance of minutes is more than I'll use and I love my unlimited internet :P
<MartijnVdS> GAH
<MartijnVdS> STOP CRASHING COMPUTER
 * MartijnVdS shakes his fist at oneiric
<Hornet> unlimited internet, wutwut?
<Azelphur> Hornet: yea, giffgaff do unlimited (no FUP) internet/texts + 250 minutes for Â£10/mo
<Azelphur> they do tiered plans for more minutes too
<Azelphur> not allowed to tether, but I tether anyway
<Azelphur> once did 5GB in a day and got no hassle, not that I'd recommend trying that XD
<AlanBell> interesting
<Hornet> interesting++
<AlanBell> basically an O2 sim card
<Azelphur> Hornet: if you wanna get it lemme refer you :D
<Rafz^> Hello!
<Rafz^> Has anyone got a moment to give me some advice on installing an application?
<Azelphur> !ask | Rafz^
<lubotu3> Rafz^: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<AlanBell> Azelphur: refer me up :)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/azelphur :D
<Rafz^> OK: I want to use ventrilo to speak to some friends. I have found a program called Mangler that works on ubuntu. I have downloaded the program from this web site: http://www.mangler.org/download/ and have extracted the files onto my desktop. I have then followed these steps: 1. sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mangler/mangler
<Rafz^> 2. sudo apt-get update
<Rafz^> 3. sudo apt-get install mangler. I am getting an error message on the final step. What am I doing wrong?
<Azelphur> Rafz^: pastebin the error
<Azelphur> !pastebin | Rafz^
<lubotu3> Rafz^: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Azelphur> Rafz^: also, is there no way you and your friends can use mumble instead? it's better in just about every way xD
<AlanBell> Azelphur: ordered
<Azelphur> AlanBell: :D
<Azelphur> AlanBell: what you going for, the Â£10 plan?
<Rafz^> I have a new error now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/647571/
<Azelphur> never seen that one before, googling about :p
<Azelphur> Rafz^: what about mumble though? it's better :P
<AlanBell> Azelphur: dunno really, probably the Â£5 one, it isn't for me
<Azelphur> AlanBell: ah, lots of texts then :)
<Rafz^> Not possible for me to get 40-50 other people to install mumble just because I use ubuntu ^_^
<Azelphur> Rafz^: *shrug* maybe get them to install it because it's a better codec that uses less bandwith, has an osd and positional audio for gaming
<Azelphur> my wow guild uses it, as do most guilds with half an ounce of sense now :p
<Azelphur> it probably uses less resources than vent does, too
<Rafz^> But it's not my call, I just want to join a vent, many vents. It's not used for one guild or one game it's used for 10-20 servers.
<Azelphur> fair enough :)
<Rafz^> And I agree mumble is better, I use it.
<Azelphur> Rafz^: try sudo add-apt-repository -f ppa:mangler/mangler
<Rafz^> http://paste.ubuntu.com/647581/
<Azelphur> without the try, haha
<Rafz^> lol try :p
<Rafz^> just saw it
<Azelphur> haha
<Rafz^> http://paste.ubuntu.com/647582/
<Rafz^> any good?
<StevenR> AlanBell: ping?
<Duser18> Whats an ubuntu
<bigcalm_lappy486> A distribution of Linux based upon Debian
<bigcalm_lappy486> !ubuntu
<lubotu3> Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com
<Duser18> wow
<Duser18> what do I do with it
<bigcalm_lappy486> Anything
<Duser18> Anything?
<bigcalm_lappy486> It's an computer operating system.
<bigcalm_lappy486> Consider it an alternative to Microsoft Windows
<Duser18> There is an alternative to windows?
<Duser18> How much does it cost?!
<bigcalm_lappy486> There are several
<bigcalm_lappy486> Ubuntu is free
<Duser18> FREE?
<Duser18> What is the catch!?
<bigcalm_lappy486> Which is also the case for many Linux distributions
<bigcalm_lappy486> None
<Duser18> I AM SKEPTICAL
<Duser18> WHAT!?!?
<bigcalm_lappy486> Not everything in life has to cost money
<bigcalm_lappy486> !opensource
<bigcalm_lappy486> !open-source
<bigcalm_lappy486> :/
<bigcalm_lappy486> !free
<lubotu3> freedom is important. Ubuntu is as free as we can make it, which means mostly free software. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing
<Duser18> This is amazing
<Duser18> Why havent I heard of it before
<bigcalm_lappy486> Never too late to experience something new :)
<Duser18> I will tell all my friends
<Duser18> I only have 5 friends
<Duser18> but then they will tell there friends
<Duser18> and there friends
<popey> hrm
 * TheOpenSourcerer things someone was rather taking the piss.
<bigcalm_lappy486> I need to put a post-it on my laptop: Do not feed the trolls
<popey> :D
<popey> chrome os is a bit nice
<bigcalm_lappy486> Might put it on my eeepc 1000 some day
<popey> i just tested it on an eee 1001 âº
<popey> sorry, 1008
<bigcalm_lappy486> Did it take much effort?
<popey> i booted off a usb stick
<popey> using the hexxeh daily
<popey> so no
<bigcalm_lappy486> Funky
<bigcalm_lappy486> I wonder if the wifi will use N
<bigcalm_lappy486> Is there support for N in Linux yet?
 * StevenR wonders when the approval application has to be done by
<ali1234> ok my android phone... on the indicator bar or whatever, it has the double circular arrows like when ubuntu needs to be rebooted. what does it mean?
<ali1234> i have to reboot my phone?
<bigcalm_lappy486> It's syncing?
<bigcalm_lappy486> ali1234: what you see is an indication that it is re-syncing with Google
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> thanks
<bigcalm_lappy486> You're welcome
<bigcalm_lappy486> Not had the phone for long?
<ali1234> couple of days
<bigcalm_lappy486> :)
<popey> thinking about putting an SSD and 2GB in my Eee 1008HA
<popey> give it a bit of a new lease of life
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> evening all
<directhex> popey: i could use some ssds, if you're buying
 * dogmatic69 is also looking at ssd's
<popey> heh
<popey> maybe just a small one for a netbook
<hamitron> I saw a nice 30Gb one for Â£55
<dogmatic69> i was thinking a small one for OS only
<popey> no room for more than one in this netbook :D
<hamitron> only SATA II though
<hamitron> :/
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-Vertex-2-5-inch-Internal-Solid/dp/B003NE5JCE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311110236&sr=8-1
 * StevenR needs more NAS-like storage
<popey> tempting
<hamitron> anyone have any of these 5900rpm drives
<hamitron> "green"
<hamitron> jsut wondered if they are fast enough to make use of USB 3.0
<hamitron> and how good they are in practise
<dogmatic69> hamitron: 111MB/s
<hamitron> :-o
<dogmatic69> usb3 ~= 5 Gbit/
<dogmatic69> s
<dogmatic69> so, no :D
<hamitron> usb2 is 480mbit
<hamitron> so I'm guessing no point in the USB 3.0 unless I get a high speed drive
<dogmatic69> hamitron: that 'green' drive sounds like it runs like intel redy boost or what ever it is
<dogmatic69> like mobile chips... idles at 5k, and jumps to 7k on opps
<dogmatic69> ssd would be more 'green' i should think
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but I want 2Tb of storage
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> and on a small budget
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> you can buy a 3T for under 100 bucks
<hamitron> tbh, it is only data storage
<dogmatic69> got 4x 3T's at work for synology box
<dogmatic69> raid 5 and all that
<hamitron> 3Tb seem a little too much, last I looked
<hamitron> also worried about working with my BIOS?
<dogmatic69> was about 600 for 4x drives + synology iirc
<hamitron> I could live with 1Tb realistically
<hamitron> so 3Tb would be wasted for what it is intended
<dogmatic69> you can always use more
<hamitron> ofc, but this USB drive will probably die quickly
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I guess I should get 2 drives, 1 for storage, other for moving around and performance
<hamitron> be nice to get an esata and usb3 external drive, ssd
<hamitron> but I am maybe jumping the gun a little
<hamitron> have to wait till something decent comes out
<dogmatic69> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Caviar-Cache-Internal/dp/B004RORMF6/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1311111307&sr=8-11
<dogmatic69> 110
<dogmatic69> 6GB/s
<hamitron> 120 ;/
<dogmatic69> ok, 120.. the 2TB is 110
<dogmatic69> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Caviar-Internal-Drive/dp/B004CSIG1G/ref=pd_cp_computers_2
<hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/252858
<hamitron> more the price I like
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> nice, i was looking at 4x of something like that for the /home/* /usr etc
<dogmatic69> and ssd for OS
<hamitron> I have seperate storage on my NAS
<dogmatic69> raid 6, hot swop... would not like to loose my mc guy :P
<hamitron> this drive is for random crap
<hamitron> :D
<dogmatic69> well, you want it blistering fast to get things quick... also huge
<dogmatic69> $$$
<hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/242787
<hamitron> another option
<hamitron> "another gadget"..... not just a hdd
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> and it comes in different colours \o/
<hamitron> I'm sounding like a Mac user now :/
<hamitron> I'd just be happier if it had esata also
<dogmatic69> 2x the price for a pretty cover :P
<hamitron> well worth it ;)
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> it is, considering I could move it around easy
<AlanBell> "SuperSpeed USB" what is that??
<AlanBell> marketing name for USB 3.0 apparently
<AlanBell> dunno why people in marketing want to simplify things to a point that I am confused and have to look it up
<dogmatic69> hamitron: is that ebuyer good? i seem to remember popey complaining about them
<AlanBell> same for all that WUXVGA crap they do for monitor resolutions
<maco> yeah what DOES that junk mean?
<AlanBell> I don't think it is formally defined, so they are not lying if they get it wrong
<hamitron> dogmatic69: I order from them at least twice a month
<popey> dogmatic69: I dont complain about ebuyer
<dogmatic69> cool
<AlanBell> I guess someone in marketing looked at a spec saying 1366x768 and decided they didn't have sufficient fingers and toes to work out sums so big
<hamitron> popey doesn't complain? :-o
<popey> I do
<popey> just not about ebuyer
<popey> ebuyer are awesome
<dogmatic69> could have been someone else
<hamitron> widescreen monitors seem so small :/
<hamitron> you pay for loads of width that can't be used
<AlanBell> yeah, they should be called shortscreen monitors
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :D
 * popey much prefers widescreen
<hamitron> I remember the point where tft got to 1280x1024
<hamitron> and it just worked for me
<popey> ewww
<popey> resolution of the devil
<hamitron> 1600x1200 is better ofc
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> ya
<popey> 1920x1080 is even betterer
<AlanBell> best laptop screen I had was 1600x1200
<hamitron> I prefer 1200 ehight
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> my laptops are 1600x1200
<hamitron> :)
<AlanBell> 2024x1152 on my desktop monitor now, and 1366x768 on the laptop
<hamitron> 1366x768 seems to be popular
<hamitron> but it drags me back to 1024x768
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> a time when we had a better resolution for stuff.... but not enough
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I suspect I will suffer with no widescreen in the future
<hamitron> as software adapts to the extra width
<ali1234> a time when designers cared about every pixel
<ali1234> instead of just "draw a squigle and anti-alias it"
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> this one: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/220997
<hamitron> but need more space
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> reckon I may have to just get a case and seperate drive to go in it
<hamitron> or I could delete stuff I don't need
<hamitron> maybe the best idea
<hamitron> ;)
<dale> done that and then downloaded same stuff again .....
<dale> i need to do the same thing ..... buy bigger
<hamitron> it is certainly a risk
<dogmatic69> ebyer is 200 bucks cheaper than amazon, and for slightly better stuff
 * dogmatic69 retracts previous slander
<popey> http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1089/community-promotion-ads-1h-2011/1642#1642
<dale> most of the things i had could be downloaded again it's just the time and annoyance of that one thing you thought u'd never use agagin
<popey> if any of you have askubuntu accounts
<popey> pls upvote that advert
<popey> thanks!
<dogmatic69> which one, just to be sure?
<dogmatic69> it opened on two
<popey> global jam
<popey> needs 6 to get in the advert rotation
<dogmatic69> done
<dogmatic69> up to 3 now
<popey> thank you
<ali1234> wait, what?
<ali1234> i am confused by that whole page?
 * hamitron is just confused and gave up trying to understand
<popey> bless
<popey> its a page on which you can add your own advert
<popey> which will appear on askubuntu.com
<popey> but only the adverts that get >6 votes will go in the advert rotation
<popey> if you go to http://askubuntu.com/ and look half way down on the right you may see an active advert
<ali1234> adblock blocks it
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> i just see a white space
<dogmatic69> would something like this have any problems on ubuntu? http://jsfiddle.net/sf4rc/
<dogmatic69> excuse the link, best site i could think of for simple cut paste table
<hamitron> I'd get a better SSD
<hamitron> 90 quid gets one twice as fast
<hamitron> and twice as big
<hamitron> monster machine man :/
<ali1234> what is that website?
<ali1234> it looks cool
<ali1234> that computer will have no problems running ubuntu
<ali1234> but you won't get anything like the full performance from that graphics card
<ali1234> i would get a cheaper gpu and an extra 8gb ram instead
<ali1234> you might get sound issues with the HDA
<dogmatic69> ali1234: 2x cards is mostly for 4x screens
<dogmatic69> that is 4x 4gig ram, no 8gig ram chips i can find
<dogmatic69> only 4x ddr3 slots
<dogmatic69> hamitron: you thinking something like http://www.ebuyer.com/product/268239
<ali1234> oh ok then
<dogmatic69> ali1234: but the mobo can take 4x 8gigs... when the arrive
<ali1234> 16 is enough for now
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> the mobo on amazon i was looking at had 6x with a max of 24
<dogmatic69> dont know why that one is not on ebyer, but seems like it was an older model
<hamitron> dogmatic69: that is the one
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> ta
<dogmatic69> how about some handy input on cpu choice?
<hamitron> what you do with it?
<dogmatic69> mix
<hamitron> I've heard hyperthreading can slow down gaming
<dogmatic69> loads of windows always open, ssh'ed into 10+ servers all day
<dogmatic69> minecraft
<dogmatic69> etc
<hamitron> minecraft is not my idea of intensive gaming though
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> on ubuntu its about as intense as it gets :P
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> mc pushes my q8200 quad core temp through the roof
<dogmatic69> will go from 40'c to 75'c in minutes
<hamitron> I'm still using 2 core cpu
<hamitron> I don't hammer it so much
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> current load average is 0.04 :)
<hamitron> if I compiled a lot of big apps, I may consider 4+ cores
<hamitron> but only if I needed it done fast
<dogmatic69> now 0.2
<dogmatic69> just by opening mc
<hamitron> mc runs fine on a single core cpu though
<dogmatic69> dont think it uses multi cores
<dogmatic69> but chrome with 50+ tabs on the other screen is
<hamitron> I have chrome and firefox both loaded with that many tabs
<hamitron> on an i3
<hamitron> memory is my main problem
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I'd probably get an i5 or some quick AMD cpu
<hamitron> if I was building a full sized comp
<hamitron> but the i7 is maybe worth it
<hamitron> dunno :/
<TenKTech> to me the one thing that by itself makes the most difference is hard drive read/write speed
<dogmatic69> 230 for 3.4gh 8mb cache
<hamitron> 65 quid saving for the i5
<dogmatic69> from running aws clouds, cpu > ram
<dogmatic69> 1 core, 1.8gig ram is slower than 4 core, 256mb ram
<hamitron> my cpu of choice: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/251597
<hamitron> but I am a tight bastard
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> the i7 will be nicer
<dogmatic69> hehe
<hamitron> I am sort of regretting getting an AMD motherboard now
<hamitron> (I got one for a crossfire setup)
<dogmatic69> hmm
<dogmatic69> i got sli on mine currently. new mobo will support both
<dogmatic69> but i think sli is better? its just too much techno talk
<dogmatic69> sales stuf
<dogmatic69> stuff*
<hamitron> reason I went AMD, didn't seem to be an intel board at the time with it, for a decent price
<hamitron> I believe sli is better, yes
<hamitron> but that build is getting funded by bitcoin mining
<hamitron> so had to get AMD cards
<dogmatic69> sli not working with bitcoin?
<hamitron> nvidia cards are not as good as amd cards for it
<dogmatic69> would them two gfx 560's be good for mining?
<hamitron> nvidia cards are not worth mining with now :/
<dogmatic69> *gtx
<dogmatic69> they are the factory overclocked ones, which are *much* faster than the stock ones
<hamitron> I stopped my GTS450 overclocked one from mining weeks ago
<dogmatic69> i had a 512mb GT OC which was faster than the 1024 std (exact same card, just more ram + not overclocked)
<dogmatic69> waisting time?
<hamitron> it got bitcoins, sure..... but the electricity it was using was worth more
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> haha
<dogmatic69> i see
<dogmatic69> at 150$ each?
<dogmatic69> must be a power hog
<hamitron> 150$?
<dogmatic69> what is one bc worth
<hamitron> $13.50
<hamitron> USD
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> close enough :D
<dogmatic69> pc upto 1.8k now :S
<hamitron> the GTS450 got about 0.02 bitcoin per day
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> and the amd?
<hamitron> I have 2 x 5870
<hamitron> they are getting 0.4 per day
<dogmatic69> about the same price range
<dogmatic69> as the 560 gtx
<dogmatic69> ram/cpu has no effect on this mining?
<hamitron> the 560 gtx producing similar number of bitcoins per unit of power, as the gts450 iirc
<hamitron> cpu and ram have no effect
<hamitron> tbh, the days of huge profits are now over for now
<hamitron> dunno if they will ever return
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but I've cashed in, got a free comp and a bit of extra cash
<hamitron> btc mining is hardly something to consider now
<hamitron> when buying a new comp
<ali1234> ati graphics still doesn't work properly if you actually want to look at the output
<hamitron> ali1234: what you expect? a graphics card to display stuff? :-o
<ali1234> luckily no
<hamitron> I'm a little up in the air with what I am doing atm with my comp stuff
<hamitron> got this mining rig with 2 graphics cards, and a motherboard that suites a lab bench, more than a gaming pc
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> sort of tempted to never install it in a case
<hamitron> it has ports forever more
<dogmatic69> who said they are running water cooled?
<hamitron> \o/
<dogmatic69> interested in going this route so i can sleep while dl'ing stuff
<dogmatic69> something like this any good http://www.ebuyer.com/product/179302
<hamitron> tbh, I find intel cpu VERY good at saving power
<hamitron> you are intending to pimp it out totally? :-o
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> whole measures... :)
<hamitron> you need the i7 over the i5 then
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> dont want to upgrade for a few years
<dogmatic69> the i7 is in the cart :)
<hamitron> I like the look of them sealed water coolers for the cpu
<dogmatic69> http://oi55.tinypic.com/2lmtmc2.jpg
<dogmatic69> ebyer seems to only have 2 kits that will work
<hamitron> you run linux?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> ubuntu 10.10 currently
<dogmatic69> might introduce another ssd for windows
<dogmatic69> dual boot
<hamitron> is SLI good on linux?
<hamitron> ah, so you will be gaming on windows?
 * hamitron does
<hamitron> no need to be shy!
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> maybe
<dogmatic69> not a huge gammer, but crysis2 looks awesome
<dogmatic69> got sc2 around also
<hamitron> tbh, I'd get some cheaper graphics cards
<dogmatic69> mostly minecraft
<dogmatic69> that is not a very expensive one imo
<WorMzy> Minecraft works fine on Linux
<dogmatic69> ye
<hamitron> gts450 are only Â£75
<WorMzy> Assuming you have graphics drivers installed
<hamitron> my gaming rig is a single gts450 and it can run F1 2010 on high settings wonderful
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> DIRT 3 also
<dogmatic69> but that is 128bit vs 256bit
<dogmatic69> afaik that is a big difference
<hamitron> I don't worry about bits, only fps
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> really does depend on if you have money to burn, and how serious gamer you are
<WorMzy> The game designer?
<WorMzy> Oops
<WorMzy> Wrong channel
<popey> how can I find out the power usage of a hdd?
<popey> ST9160310AS s;ec
<popey> bah
<popey> ST9160310AS s;ec
<popey> GAH!
<dogmatic69> lol
<popey> ST9160310AS specifically
<hamitron> is there a max current on the label?
<popey> its inside the computer
<popey> http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/storage/r180608/specs.htm aha!
<dogmatic69> popey: http://www.hdsentinel.com/storageinfo_details.php?lang=en&model=SEAGATE%20ST9160310AS
<popey> so around 2W?
<dogmatic69> 1.3A for spin up
<popey> the SSD I am looking at is 2W
<popey> just making sure I'm not going to kill the battery switching to ssd
<popey> ?
<dogmatic69> google does not do amps -> watts
<dogmatic69> ssd should be lower
<dogmatic69> hdd is always using power, ssd should only on read/write
<dogmatic69> in theory
<hamitron> that hdd uses a lot of power off the 5V rail?
<dogmatic69> looks like 1300ma is 6w
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003NE5JCE/ref=oss_product
<popey> thats the ssd I am comparing it to
<hamitron> yeh, but won't the SSD use 12V?
<popey> OS Required: Linux, Microsoft Windows XP, Microsoft Windows XP 64-bit Edition, Microsoft Windows 7, Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Edition, Microsoft Windows Vista (32/64 bits)
<popey> :D
<popey> Linux first, like that
<dogmatic69> watts = 1.3 x voltage
<WorMzy> Where it belongs
<popey> Alphabetical I'm sure, but still fun
<WorMzy> First.
<WorMzy> :D
<hamitron> popey: imo, power will be fine
<hamitron> even if the 2W is on the 12V, rather than the 5V the hdd is, it is really low power
<popey> ta
<popey> hope it fits
<popey> it's 10mm, the original one is 9mm :D
<hamitron> so long as there is a 12V line
<dogmatic69> popey: is it a std ssd or performance one?
<popey> nothing special
<hamitron> it is over priced
<dogmatic69> should be lower then, according to wiki sdt ssd's are about 1/2 to 1/3 lighter on juice
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> but power ones are 2x heavier ...
<dogmatic69> im out
<popey> yeah, nn
<dogmatic69> thanks hamitron and co for advice :)
<hamitron> popey: what psu the machine got?
<dogmatic69> hope things are not out dated by the time i dust my card off and checkout in the next few weeks
<popey> a brick
<popey> its a laptop
<hamitron> no specs? :/
 * popey grabs it
<popey> jeez, my eyesight
<dogmatic69> ebyer fail : "Password cannot be longer than 12 characters"
<hamitron> I guess the motherboard has bits to consider also
<popey> exa0901xh
<directhex> blarg
<popey> 40W apparently
<hamitron> this is a netbook? ;/
<popey> 19V @ 2.1A
<popey> yes
<hamitron> my laptop puts more power than that through my pride and joy
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I'd just try it tbh
<ali1234> that sounds really wrong
<hamitron> :)
<popey> heh
 * hamitron notes that popey 's netbook will leave all his comps behind
<hamitron> :\
<popey> its wifeys
<popey> not mine
<hamitron> that makes it worse
<hamitron> :(
<popey> heh, she never uses it now
<hamitron> exactly
<hamitron> haha
<popey> that's why I'm souping it up and getting it back
<popey> its got xp on it too, so that's going to go
<hamitron> :-o
<popey> she used it for work
<popey> but has changed jobs to a place where she wont need it
<hamitron> well, let me know if you sell the old hdd
<hamitron> :)
<popey> hehe
 * popey looks around at some hard disks
 * StevenR has an awesome little 1.8"/120GB disk for rescues/etc 
<popey> âº sweet
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I fancy having a little drive, USB 3.0
<hamitron> bootable
<hamitron> I guess USB 2.0 would be fine too
<StevenR> popey: I used a KVM-VM to boot from an iso and install on the USB disk, passed through as a "SCSI" disk to the VM :)
<hamitron> I only keep saying 3.0 because I wanna use my new ports ><
<popey> thats handy
<StevenR> though it works fine with a real machine, took it into work and used a server in the lab to boot it to make sure
<hamitron> what is performance like?
<StevenR> it's ok. running it as a VM kinda sucked
<StevenR> but natively, it's just a usb2 disk, so it's pretty slick.
<StevenR> it's... lower-end laptop quick I guess.
<StevenR> (modern lower end)
<hamitron> k :)
<hamitron> I love the idea of it
<StevenR> it's portable. and runs off one usb port
<hamitron> jsut I am often too lazy to reboot my main comp
<hamitron> so not sure how often I'd use such a toy
<hamitron> :/
<StevenR> no wierdo "dual-A/mini-B" cable :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-20
<hamitron> my 20Gb external hdd is USB 1.1
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> I think
<StevenR> :'(
<hamitron> I know it sucks anyway
<hamitron> keep meaning to play with it, but hassle of rebooting gets in the way
<hamitron> popey: what model netbook is it?
<popey> Asus 1008HA
<popey> clamshell
<hamitron> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ort5HxEf1d8
<hamitron> I assume it must work
<hamitron> damn, I need SSD
<hamitron> my comp takes about 10 mins to startup
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> with all the junk
<etneg> hi
<etneg> anyone using xfce 4.8
<etneg> I'm on ubuntu 10.04 and I used a PPA to go from Xfce 4.6 to Xfce 4.8
<etneg> I updated to Xfce 4.8 and now I can't change music file properties in Thunar
<etneg> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/22580
<etneg> sounds like a fix for it?
<etneg> not sure
<etneg> any hints?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Calling Those To Rock The Ubuntu 11.10 Global Jam - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/20/calling-those-to-rock-the-ubuntu-11-10-global-jam/
<etneg> bah
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<Apacheuk> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> OT. This is a great visual tracking the twitter traffic yesterday with piegate. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/interactive/2011/jul/19/rupert-murdoch-twitter-pie
<diplo> heh that was quite good
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
 * AlanBell is south of the river today
<oimon> installed natty on a new box last night, immediately came across some annoying bugs not yet fixed ..finding it more buggy than lucid
 * MooDoo upgraded to oneiric and updated and broke x
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> getting the following from grub-install on 10.04.3 LTS You attempted a cross-disk install, but the filesystem containing /boot/grub does not support UUIDs.
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: what kind of filesystem did you install it on?
<andylockran> ext4
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: and did you put everything on one partition?
<BigRedS> MooDoo: really? I upgraded last night and suddenly sounds started working
<BigRedS> but X is fine
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: yes
<BigRedS> in fact, Unity doesn't die every half hour or so any more
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: anything special about your setup?
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: Don't think so.
<andylockran> RAID5
<MartijnVdS> that's the problem :)
<MartijnVdS> grub can't do software RAID5
<MartijnVdS> that's what it means by "No UUID support for the file system"
<andylockran> right
<MartijnVdS> if you do software RAID, you have to have a RAID1 (or non-raid) bit for grub to live on
<MartijnVdS> and tell the partition tool to put "/boot" on that separate RAID/partition
<andylockran> Ok
<andylockran> Thanks MartijnVdS
<oimon> grrr annoying facebook sidebar...i don't suppose new gwibber will build on lucid?
<MooDoo> BigRedS, hmmm i'll just check it out, i'm sure i'll fix it
<MooDoo> i'm really not sure about the new gwibber, can you have it show all streams at once like the old one or tweetdeck?
<BigRedS> well, unless they snuck in some X breakage between my upgrade and yours :)
<MooDoo> BigRedS, might just be my laptop, i'll fix it :D
<MooDoo> shouldn't complain seeing as it's only alpha :D
<diplo> andylockran, will you be about today ?
<BigRedS> MooDoo: yeah, that's what I thought on mine. I was putting off any investigation until I could be arsed, and then somebody fixed it for me :)
<BigRedS> I'm a bad alpha tester :(
<MooDoo> BigRedS, me too, especially as i use stuff like that on production machines :D lol
<HazRPG> morning all
<HazRPG> You know, I'm trying to get use to Banshee
<HazRPG> does anyone know if banshee saves album covers that you drag to it just in its database? Or can it actually write it to the files themselves?
<MooDoo> HazRPG, snap!
<HazRPG> MooDoo: Heh :P
<HazRPG> See I know the order that Banshee attempts to get album covers, first it looks through the file, then it will look in the folder, then it will look through Rhapsody, then MusicBrainz, then amazon an other sites and then last.fm...
<HazRPG> but well the one that was embedded in the file was too tiny, and stretched badly... so I dragged my own
<HazRPG> in hopes that it would save it to the file
<HazRPG> but I don't think it has
<MartijnVdS> it saves it to its db
<MartijnVdS> use  musicbrainz picard to get album art into files :)
<HazRPG> I was thinking that
<HazRPG> I was hoping I didn't have to though :(
<MartijnVdS> picard â¥
<HazRPG> Yeah I do too, when the albums are badly organised :P
<HazRPG> You'd think by now OCremix.org would have their  songs properly done by now :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I just buy my CDs :)
<gord> new OCRemix stuff is often well organised
<HazRPG> gord: true :)
<HazRPG> Its Chrono Symphonic that I'm trying to do at the moment
<gord> the old stuff is ... yeah, 128kb mp3 with bad tags =\
<HazRPG> not all of them :)
<HazRPG> I mainly get the album stuff
<gord> yeah talking about the albums, the ooold albums
<HazRPG> album stuff normally has them as flac if you grab the torrent from them
<gord> yeah the oooooooold albums
<gord> before anyone wanted to download flacs because they were too big ;)
<HazRPG> e.g. Bad Dudes? :P
<MartijnVdS> flacs \o/
 * MartijnVdS rips his CDs to flac
<HazRPG> gord: some of the older stuff seems to have disappeared :(
<bigcalm> Hazar!
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm, do you strip out the ID3 tags from FLAC and the APEv2 tags from MP3's with MusicBrainz?
<HazRPG> Seems I haven't configured mine since I moved away from windows
<HazRPG> :/
<popey> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<HazRPG> popey: morning :)
<bigcalm> I can haz working aircon again :)
<diplo> Anyone use Avaya phone systems at all ?
<DJones> bigcalm: What use is working aircon now that summer is over :)
<bigcalm> DJones: damn you and your logic!
 * BigRedS likes air con whenever the temperature rises above about 16 celsius :)
<bigcalm> I might add that this is my car's aircon
<bigcalm> Metal boxes can get quite warm
<DJones> I've got aircon in mine, but I'd much rather open the windows & sunroof wherever possible
<oimon> HazRPG: clementine has the cover manager that you wish banshee had :-\
<bigcalm> DJones: not so good when it's very humid
<HazRPG> oimon: isn't that the amarok folk?
<oimon> HazRPG: it is what amarok should have become :P
<HazRPG> oimon: hmm...
<oimon> i hate the fact that banshee cover manager doesn't tell you what it's doing, and why it can't get all the covers
<HazRPG> I don't mind it not getting the covers, most of the music I own is usually freely distributed - so the cover art is usually released with it
<HazRPG> oimon: I must say Clementine is starting to look better, I recall earlier versions when they firsted forked it out
<oimon> banshee has a few annoyances that are big enough to make me unhappy enough to switch
<HazRPG> interesting... seems they've got MusicBrainz embedded into it
<HazRPG> oimon: ironically, I switched from Rhythmbox to Banshee
<HazRPG> (still rocking 10.10 here \o/)
<oimon> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=540873 << open for 3 years, still doesn't allow album artist view, which means the artist list gets very long even after adding only a couple of compilations
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 540873 in User Interface "Allow changing browser filters; add/remove genre, album artist, year, etc" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<gord> problems with working with computers #1852 - full, constant access to amazon.co.uk
<bigcalm> gord: block the site in your firewall :)
<BigRedS> oh man, amazon's one-click thing is horrendous
<BigRedS> the amount of crap I've bought because it seemed like a good idea for three seconds
<gord> one click *and amazon prime* frankly, i'm loosing money if i don't constantly buy stuff i don't need
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm, I can't seem to be able to add my own cover art with MusicBrainz :/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Its fine for normal albums, I use the cover album downloader script, but how about stuff that isn't listed on amazon or other "allowed" urls... since I have the actual cover already on my hard drive
<HazRPG> I mean, ocremix.org don't really host the album covers, so I can't just reference it into the musicbrainz database site
<GreenDance> hi
<GreenDance> does $? make sence, is it a command?
<GreenDance> i'm trying to find the command for <anything here> and I thought it was $?
<GreenDance> i can't remember
<bigcalm> GreenDance: do you have a little more context?
<GreenDance> bigcalm: what do you mean?
<bigcalm> GreenDance: what are you trying to do?
<Kirrus> GreenDance: "$?" in bash outputs the exit status of the last command run. But, your request is quite vague, do you want reverse-history command search? history lookup?
<GreenDance> Kirrus: in my sudoers file i'm trying to do this "/usr/bin/apt-get install <programme>"
<bigcalm> Oh
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo how's life?
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<GreenDance> bigcalm: any ideas please?
<dwatkins> GreenDance: I thought the sudoers file listed commands which could be run from specific user accounts for that kind of situation, not an alias for the command itself
<MooDoo> davmor2, yeah not bad......oneiric broke on me last night, but i'll cope
<dwatkins> ray    rushmore = NOPASSWD: /bin/kill, /bin/ls, /usr/bin/lprm
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeap did you see my note on FB for that
<MooDoo> davmor2, yes mate
<bigcalm> GreenDance: bash isn't my strong point. Sorry I can't help you further
<MooDoo> davmor2, don't worry creeping will get me no where :D
<GreenDance> bigcalm: ok, thank you
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I figured you're wife had more sense but couldn't resist ;)
 * davmor2 sends czajkowski to the #naughtystep for not picking on Moodoo nearly enough
<Laney> anyone know how to insert spaces in vim to pad a line to a certain length?
<dogmatic69> o/
<HazRPG> hmm, does brasero not burn cue/wav files?
<HazRPG> its been saying "Preparing to write" for a good few minutes now
<HazRPG> can't think of any other way to mount the cue/wav either
<HazRPG> Laney: why not use tabs?
<Laney> how does that help?
<voidspace> popey: I'm just installing Ubuntu on my shiny new proliant
<Laney> also I couldn't even if it would. It's for my email signature.
<voidspace> popey: and I have exactly the same problem you described in your blog entry
<voidspace> popey: installing the bootloader on the usb stick instead of the hd
<voidspace> popey: so thanks for writing up the fix!
<HazRPG> Laney: hmm, if its for e-mail, your probably best off with &nbsp;
<HazRPG> unless your e-mails just get sent as plain/text
<Laney> err, I'm not using html mail
<Laney> it was really a vim question, but never mind â I did it manually
<HazRPG> Laney: ah, sorry
<HazRPG> try this cheat sheet: http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/vimcheat.html
<davmor2> voidspace: Yay popey rocks but don't tell him that ;)
<voidspace> davmor2: :-)
<bigcalm> That happened when I installed Ubuntu on the Viglen MPC-L
<HazRPG> Laney: looking at that cheat sheet, I don't think there's an actual way to insert with just a single key
<Laney> I didn't find a way with some googling
<HazRPG> I mean you can do: a
<Laney> 'insert enough of character until the right hand side is at column x'
<HazRPG> then press space
<Laney> I want it to calculate 'enough' for me.
<HazRPG> ah
<BigRedS> I'd do that with a perl oneliner
<BigRedS> but I do most things with a perl oneliner
<bigcalm> sudo make me a sandwich
<HazRPG> bigcalm: sudo take over mind && sudo make sandwich
<HazRPG> wow, brasero is still "preparing to write" my cue/wav
<HazRPG> surely there must be a way to mount this, just so I can re-rip as flac
<Laney> you could clearly do it with sprintf
<brobostigon> sudo make me coffee
 * davmor2 wonders if sudo should be renamed simon-says
<Laney> but the point was I wanted to do it in the text editor
<HazRPG> davmor2: too many letters :) I vote for ss instead
<HazRPG> ss make sandwich :)
<davmor2> HazRPG: No too many second world war connotations with SS how about ssays instead
<HazRPG> davmor2: that works :)
<HazRPG> or sisays
<HazRPG> (cos ssays just sounds like one has a stutter :P)
<davmor2> haha
<HazRPG> Heh, this amused me: http://www.gruntle.com/lotus/sites/www.gruntle.com/filebrowser/images/blog/.resized_520x390_coder.girl.xkcd.tribute.jpg
<HazRPG> I don't think I would contain my laughter if a printer ever said this to me: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/iluvwhenuluvmee/job-fails-sudo-make-me-a-sandwich.jpg
<HazRPG> s/would/would be able to/
<oimon> my response to sudo make me a sandwich is "this incident has been reported"
<BigRedS> To santa?
<oimon> i read santa's mail :)
 * DJones reports oimon to the police for hacking santa's mail
<oimon> it's in his contract he signed
<oimon> santa needs a sysadmin like everybody else :)
<davmor2> oimon: I saw santa's list your on the naughty side :P
<oimon> that's a shame, i had asked for a pony to be delivered to davmor2
<davmor2> oimon: That's ok I'm in a flat no room for a pony :P
<DJones> Yeah, but don't you need something signed by the people sending him mail as well otherwise you'd reading a 3rd party's mails "by accident", you'll be able to get a job a news of the world investigator
<awilkins> HazRPG, That's really easy to do if you have the HP printers
<BigRedS> oimon: sysadmin or secretary?
<awilkins> HazRPG, A few trivial perl scripts, I think they are easy enough to find online
<awilkins> HazRPG, (the INSERT CHEESE thing)
<oimon> after reading santa's mail, i have some shocking news for you all
<awilkins> We've been naughty?
<BigRedS> I thought this was the naughty step? that wouldn't be shocking
<oimon> he left the company ages ago and i forgot to close his inbox
<awilkins> I wondered why my Charlize Theron hadn't arrived yet
 * daubers installs freepbx
<andylockran> howdy guys
<andylockran> how's things?
<MooDoo> not three bad thanks :)
<dwatkins> ello andylockran, how do?
<brobostigon> andylockran: good afternoon, other than tummy ache, i am fine. and you?
<j0nr> hi folks, anyone know if I can install and run u1sdtool on its own on a server (no GUI)
<dwatkins> It doesn't seem to like being executed via a GUI-less ssh login, j0nr
<oracology> j0nr: i shouldn't say much because i'm not sure what it does, and i can't quite look it up just yet, but perhaps setting it up through autofs + sshfs might do the trick?
<Laney> "You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected"
<Laney> nlug--; // moderation, please (or better, allowing unsubscribed people to post)
<bigcalm> Spam lies that way
<andylockran> any recommendations on a bootdisk to use if the bios doesn't support boot from usb?
<j0nr> dwatkins: oracology  hmm, ok thanks
<dwatkins> andylockran: I've used smartbootmanager in the past with success
<dogmatic69> andylockran: 486? :D
<andylockran> dogmatic.. 286
<andylockran>  Intel 80286
<dwatkins> I miss my 286, it was heavy enough to keep a bunker door open
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: back in the cold war... :)
<dwatkins> yeah, they were made that long ago
<andylockran> fun machines
<bigcalm> This isn't fun
<bigcalm> svn is just sitting there doing nothing
<bigcalm> No network traffic
<bigcalm> Can't work out what it's waiting for
<gord> svn? =\
<gord> i thought we all agreed to never talk about svn again
<bigcalm> Then we sould never talk about any vcs :P
<BigRedS> I thought vcs arguments were the new editor arguments?
<BigRedS> now that everyone uses vi
 * BigRedS runs 
 * bigcalm reboots the company svn server out of despration
<bigcalm> That didn't help
 * directhex blows ikonia's mind via twitter
<awilkins> bigcalm, Is there a wedged transaction in the repository?
<awilkins> bigcalm, It's much harder to wedge a FSFS repo, as opposed to a BDB repo, but I have seen it happen once I think
<awilkins> bigcalm, If it's a BDB repo... unwedge it, then dump/reload it to FSFS as soon as is humanly practical
<awilkins> bigcalm, What's the repo config?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: did you run strace on it already?
<Azelphur> anyone know of a nice laptop for browsing/general use? Needs to be new with a decent warranty as it's expected to last a long time, thus needs to have a lot of overhead for the task too :P
<popey> Thinkpad.
<dwatkins> ASUS are apparently fairly reliable, as are Apple's laptops.
<Azelphur> didn't they rebrand to ideapad?
<Azelphur> yea, I've been aiming at Asus but thinkpads are very nice too, had one when I was younger :)
<Azelphur> the thinkpads seem to have horrible celerons in them (at least on ebuyer) looking elsewhere :p
<diplo> cheap ones do
<BigRedS> my thinkpads's got a lovely isomething
<BigRedS> well, I'm told it's not very good but it's done everything I want it to do
<Azelphur> yea I'm thinking i3 ballpark
<BigRedS> i5 apparently
<Azelphur> yea the thinkpads are up Â£400+ way if you want an i3 :(
<Azelphur> Asus have a Â£350 one that I might be able to nab some window tax refund on
<DJones> Azelphur: I got one of these a few months ago the only problem I've found is bluetooth, works great with natty other than that http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5084791.htm
<DJones> Actually, no wasn't that model, mine was i3 & 5gb ram
<DJones> 4gb
<Azelphur> yea was gonna say, specs on that don't seem all that amazing for the price
<DJones> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5084849/Trail/searchtext%3EG72.htm
<DJones> That one
<Azelphur> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/251331 is the best I've found so far :P
<Azelphur> lol, asus + better specs + Â£100 less \o/
<DJones> Asus is only 15.6", HP was 17"
<Azelphur> ah
<DJones> My wife got virtually the same Asus though at the same time
<Azelphur> that's where the difference is at :)
<Azelphur> have to check with my mum I think she wants a 15 though
<Azelphur> she grumbles at my netbook for being too small and my XPS M1730 for being too big
<DJones> This is what my wife got http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/asus-a52f-ex1130v-15-6-laptop-red-09809618-pdt.html
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> how do the intel integrated chips go with compiz now days?
<DJones> My HP with Intel HD graphics plays minecraft with no problem
<DJones> No problems with natty either, seems to be fully compatible
<Azelphur> yea this ones not for gaming, it's mainly compiz/unity support that's required :P
<Azelphur> looking more at the 15" asus too, 17" will make my mum grumble
<DJones> We both have unity running with no problems
<BigRedS> I love how minecraft has become such a universal benchmark test now
<Azelphur> cool :)
<Azelphur> BigRedS: haha
<DJones> BigRedS: I mentioned minecraft because everything I'd read said it had problems with intel graphics, but I've not noticed anything
<BigRedS> Ah, no it's just I've seen servers, laptops and PCs compared based on how well they run minecraft now
<BigRedS> not for specific problems, probably just 'cause it's heavy enough to cause noticeable load, but light enough that nearly everything can run it
<BigRedS> and, of course, it's basically Better Than Life
 * daubers wonders why freepbx comes with cups installed...
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I find it hilarious how many systems have cups on them
<BigRedS> I guess if it's got a report generator, it might use cups to produce a pdf?
<DJones> Azelphur: If you want to know any detailed output on the Asus, ping me in a few hours, I can run lspci/lsusb etc for more info on the hardware if you want
<Azelphur> cool ty, I'm probably looking at the ebuyer one though it's got a better CPU for less money :P
<DJones> Yeah, but they look almost the same machine with minor variations hdd size etc
<DJones> Same base model as well X52
<Azelphur> cool :)
 * popey notes as "odd" that Azelphur will spend thousands of pounds on a bitcoin mining setup, but skimps on a laptop for daily use
<popey> EMAKESNOSENSE
<Azelphur> popey: because bitcoin mining setup pays for itself and because this laptop isn't for me?
<DJones> Azelphur: Sounds like the laptop is an ideal target for mumbuntu :)
<popey> ahhhh
<Azelphur> DJones: indeed :)
<gord> if your looking for a new laptop and its not an X220, shame on you ;)
<Azelphur> haha only Â£1000
<oimon> X220 tablet arrived today :D
<oimon> not for me though  i got to play with it :(
<gord> Azelphur, from lenovo? base was about Â£640 or so, with addons i got mine for Â£800 or so
 * BigRedS agrees with gord
<Azelphur> oh :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: what was your issue with oneiric
<Azelphur> still over budget though, looking around the Â£300 area
<gord> i can sell you a cardboard box with "COMPOOTER" written on it for Â£300
<Azelphur> she currently lives reasonably happily on a P4 1.6ghz to give you some idea
<BigRedS> p-p-p-p-p-p-pick up a powerbook?
<Azelphur> it just needs a little more power and a nice warranty
<Mez> Anyone any good with grub2?
<Mez> Seems someones cocked up somewhere
<gord> i miss grub1, i understood that =\ feel like i need a degree for grub2...
<MooDoo> davmor2, it logged in then just left me at a purple screen.......the wallpaper no icons.....it was late i didn't investigate
<BigRedS> I think the cock up was switching to grub2
<BigRedS> or in its 'design'
<BigRedS> and i'm still not quite over the fact that grub2 is grub version 1.99
<davmor2> MooDoo: try clicking on other, then use your nick and password to login
<Mez> well, for whatever reason, grub2 won't install - and is throwing a wobbly.
<MooDoo> davmor2, ok will try when i get home...is it a known issue?
<davmor2> MooDoo: kinda I just hit it myself, I was surprise that it wasn't asking for my password
<BigRedS> Mez: what's the error
<MooDoo> ah ok
<BigRedS> grub-mkdevicemap fixes most of the grub problems I've had with 2
<popey> LION!
<BigRedS> but that's recommended in the error :)
<Mez> /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: no mapping exists for `RAID-root'.
<Mez> Auto-detection of a filesystem module failed.
<Mez> Please specify the module with the option `--modules' explicitly.
<davmor2> Mez: if you get no look here try speaking to cjwatson on #ubuntu-installer
<davmor2> luck even
<BigRedS> ooh. I have had that one and I can't remember how I fixed it :(
<Mez> davmor2: he's in #grub too :) and I asked in there
<Mez> BigRedS: grr
 * BigRedS cowers
<Mez> BigRedS: no use to me if you can't remember how :D
<BigRedS> hah, yeah. Build up your hopes then shoot 'em down :)
<stuart> Hello. It is that great point of the afternoon when all has gone wrong.
<stuart> And it is all thanks to gnatty-gnarwhal.
<stuart> So the story begins. Upgrade to natty. Works ok apart from wireless. Get that fixed by adding the kernel ppa. Fixes problem. Classic Desktop is now not available. So it is unity for me. I turn unity off in Compiz config. Can't do anything now. Luckily have xfce as a backup.
<stuart> so... how can I restore Unity or get the classic desktop back???
<DJones> !classic
<lubotu3> The default interface in Ubuntu 11.04 is !Unity. To switch back to regular !GNOME: log out, click your username, click the Session box at the bottom of the screen, and select "Ubuntu Classic".
<DJones> stuart: Does that not work?
<stuart> 'Classic Desktop is now not available'
<stuart> The option is gone gonedy gone.
<BigRedS> yeah, I guessed that's what you meant by that. Is it just missing from the dropdown?
<BigRedS> What did you install from the kernel repo? I don't know what's in it, just a new kernel?
<stuart> I just did a full update. I had a few other things needing updated so all was upgraded. Kernel. And everything else.
<popey> i dont understand how classic is gone
<stuart> And I have 'broken' unity!!!
<popey> well, disabling unity in compiz is unwise
<popey> you could do this:-
<popey> CTRL+ALT+F1
<popey> login to console
<stuart> We know that now.
<popey> run "unity --reset"
<stuart> I see.
<popey> but I fail to see how classic has gone
<stuart> popey, I don't get it either.... but it did and lo and behold, google returned no useful search results into the matter
<popey> i would "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^"
<popey> and see what packages that brings in
<popey> note the ^
<stuart> ubuntu-desktop ----- latest version.
<stuart> ubuntu-desktop^      requesting impossible request. fair number of other dependencies reqd. broken package etc...
<popey> sounds like you have installed some manky rubbish from a ppa or something?
<stuart> well who knows. the only things that were installed were really gnome3-dev stuff.
<popey> that would do it
<popey> 16:22:55 < stuart> well who knows. the only things that were installed were really gnome3-dev stuff.
<popey> 16:23:45 < popey> that would do it
<stuart> ach well. at least unity is back up....
<popey> excellent
 * daubers often wonders what they outcry will be when Gnome gets rid of gnome 2.x and just maintains 3.x
<popey> meh, people will have some other reason to hate ubuntu, I'm sure
<gord> i wonder if they will ever be able to do that, they don't have a fallback
<popey> i thought panels were ported to 3.x?
<daubers> gord: I don't see how they could maintain both?
<gord> by gnome2 i assumed we were talking about the classic panel setup
<gord> ie, no shell
<daubers> gord: Yup
<gord> i would expect that someone will maintain the panel for quite some time though
<stuart> I hope so...
<stuart> Maybe it should be my lifelong goal!
<bigcalm> awilkins: what is a wedged transction? What are FSFS and BDB repos? I feel so dumb
<bigcalm> The strace is pausing on a read action
<bigcalm> popey: did you say that the revo uses an IDE HDD?
<stuart> popey, good news is that i can still run the panels... so they are still there woot!
<popey> uhhhhm
<popey> bigcalm: cant remember
<popey> bigcalm: one mo
<popey> bigcalm: no, I said the Viglen does
<bigcalm> Ah, that was it
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Wondering if I should put an SSD in the revo or not
<popey> i cant get to my revo atm
<bigcalm> http://support.acer.com/acerpanam/desktop/2009/acer/aspire/AspireR3610/AspireR3610sp2.shtml
<bigcalm> Is it a 3610 we have?
<bigcalm> Ah, no
<bigcalm> 3600
<bigcalm> http://support.acer.com/acerpanam/desktop/2009/acer/aspire/AspireR3600/AspireR3600sp2.shtml
<bigcalm> Ooo, it can take up to 4gb of ram
<DJones> Heh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA2kqAIOoZM
<DJones> I must say I'm more productive in work since the mc server went down
<BigRedS> Is there a simple way to have MySQL output a few rows in some way I can feed into another mysql client to insert them into a table? It's just a simple select on a table that produces the rows
<bigcalm> select into server.database.table ?
<oimon> argh just had a disaster..quota limit got reached on my account and loads of files got zeroed :( including thunderbird configs and .gconf stuff
<bigcalm> Ouch
<directhex> @_@
<oimon> kde handles disk full/quota limit a lot better than gnome
<oimon> luckily i was able to restore from yesterdays backup, but took an hour of faffing
<popey> ouch
<awilkins> bigcalm, Subversion has 2 options for data storage in the repository ; i) Berkeley DB (this is very old and seldom used now ii) FSFS (filesystem, filesystem) ; Subversion is a filesystem with an additional dimension (revision) - this is a filesystem store, of that filesystem
<awilkins> bigcalm, BDB backends would frequently get "wedged" (in a stuck state), which is one reason why they are not used so much any more. An admin would need to go in and execute a command to unwedge a BDB repo in such a state
<bigcalm> awilkins: aha, thank you for clearing that up :)
<awilkins> bigcalm, I have seen one occasion where a transaction failed in an FSFS repository, wedging it, but usually such failures just leave some detritus (transaction folders with files in)lying around
<bigcalm> I've tried to check out a fresh copy of a repo to a new dir. It does some and then freezes
<bigcalm> Next to try it on another server away from my connection
<awilkins> bigcalm, Not so sure about that as a symptom
<awilkins> bigcalm, If you have shell access to the server in question, try checking it out via the file:// protocol straight to the repository
<awilkins> bigcalm, Checking a large repo can take time but may be worthwhile.
<bigcalm> Just check it out onto my Bytemark server without issue
<bigcalm> It's something with my connection. Thank you VM
<awilkins> Heh
<bigcalm> Can you slow down the checkout process?
<awilkins> bigcalm, I presume it's via the webdav plugin for Apache?
<oimon> has anyone noticed the swizz going on with toner lately? old printer, 2000 page toner=Â£33, new printer 1600 page toner=Â£47
<awilkins> bigcalm, One thing I have seen problems with in the past (but not recently) is when the DEFLATE extension is enabled
<bigcalm> No, it's rather secure svn:// :(
<bigcalm> Erm, s/secure/insecure
<awilkins> ssh+svn://  I don't have experience with
<awilkins> Not so much with svn:// either, mostly http://
<oimon> http://birdabroad.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/are-you-listening-steve-jobs/
 * bigcalm tests with a server in Canada
<awilkins> Suggestion ; install Bazaar on this other server, pull the branch you want into a repository there, and scp it to your local box :-)
<oimon> fake apple store, whose staff believe work for apple
 * awilkins prefers Bazaar to git for SVN interop but git-svn also works well
<bigcalm> Bytemark -> Bytemark works ok. Bytemark -> Canada works ok. Bytemark -> home VM cable connection fails
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: how about home -> canada?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: what would that prove?
<MartijnVdS> that the triangle is complete :)
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> rm YaManicKill
<bigcalm> Erm, oops :)
<DJones> bigcalm: You need a sudo before that command
<bigcalm> window and tab failure
<bigcalm> Oh great, now my scp has stalled
<bigcalm> I get the feeling that VM are 'managing' my connection
<brobostigon> is it possible to make irssi also record date, in its logs?
<bigcalm> Or the modem/router has failed
<DJones> brobostigon: My irssi logs show the date at the start of the log & if the date changes then it shows a date changed line, not sure about including the date & timestamp together though
<brobostigon> DJones: yes, i am interested in doing the latter of those possibilities. ohwell. thank you.
<DJones> brobostigon: See Appendix C for the time formats andthere is a log_timestamp = %H:%M section about a quarter of the way down the site
<DJones> http://www.irssi.org/documentation/settings
<brobostigon> DJones: yes, i am just looking at that, i think i could add date variables to that.
<brobostigon> DJones: got it, i have set it to "%F %H:%M:%S"
<piffer> Hello
<piffer> I am trying to get Grub2 to boot my Windows XP partition and failing
<piffer> I recently backed up and restored a failing HD to a new HD
<piffer> Both partitions are now present, but XP wont boot
<piffer> fdisk -l shows sda2 as a Linux partition, which is wrong...
<piffer> that is my Windows Partition
<piffer> Also, GParted shows sda2 as an NTFS partition
<piffer> So I fear Grub is confused
<piffer> Can anyone help?
<brobostigon> piffer: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 it says on their, how to manually point grub2 at the right places.
<brobostigon> there*
<piffer> Thanks, but I've already tried all those solutions
<piffer> I'm pointing Grub at the correct location, I believe: hd0,2
<brobostigon> i dont know alot about grub. so cant really help much further myself. sorry.
<piffer> No problem.  Thanks anyway, bro.
<brobostigon> piffer: stick around. someone with more knowledge will answer.
<piffer> I will.  Thanks. :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> I would say fix the mbr in windows and then reinstall grub
<bigcalm> So you might need to sort out a windows boot disc
<piffer> ah
<piffer> That could be it
<piffer> Can I fix the mbr from within Linux in any way?
<dwatkins> I was about to answer, but they left.
<piffer> Can anyone help me with my Grub 2 Windows loading problem>?
<AlanBell> all looking forward to the geeknic at the weekend?
<piffer111_> Argh!
<piffer111_> Still can't get Windows booting from Grub 2
<piffer111_> I've installed ms-sys to run fixmbr
<piffer111_> But Windows is on sda2, not sda1
<piffer111_> I don't want to risk messing up my Linux partition
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I am :)
<MartijnVdS> piffer111_: What "windows booting problem" do you have exactly? Is it covered by the Grub 2 HOWTO?
<MartijnVdS> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<piffer111_> Marti: I've read the how to.  The problem isn't the Grub 2 entires, I don't think.
<piffer111_> Marti: The problem is that the mbr is screwed - I think.
<MartijnVdS> piffer111_: if grub starts, the MBR is fine
<piffer111_> Marti: I've tried all the various configurations to get Windows to boot - it just hangs.
<piffer111_> Marti: Oh.  :(
<MartijnVdS> did you move windows from one partition to another?
<MartijnVdS> or did the partition number change in some wya?
<piffer111_> Marti: Yes.  Sort of.  I backed up a HD with each partition.  And then restored a new HD with the old partitions.
<MartijnVdS> that could be the problem
<piffer111_> Marti: But the Gurb 2 entries look correct.
<MartijnVdS> Windows is VERY sensitive to those things
<piffer111_> Marti: Any suggestions?
<piffer111_> Marti: I also have another related issue: when I do fdisk -l
<MartijnVdS> No idea
<piffer111_> Sda1 appears as Linux
<piffer111_> BUT sda2 also appears as Linux
<piffer111_> And it should be NTFS
<piffer111_> Although Gparted recognises it properly.
<piffer111_> :(
<MartijnVdS> sounds like you didn't restore your backups properly?
<piffer111_> Dunno... The Linux partition restored perfectly.  They were clones...
<daubers> lalala
<piffer111_> Do I need to trick Windows in to thinking that it's the first partition on the first drive, rather than second partition on the first drive?
<dogmatic69_> o/
<DJones> For info "working with other groups in your community (pleia2) is starting in a few minutes in #ubuntu-classroom" May be worth dropping in for anybody who may be involved with working with other groups
<Azelphur> lol, giffgaff sends all the information about a package (Price, End date, etc) as post data
<Azelphur> herp derp security \o/
<Azelphur> that said, it seems to disregard most of the information, I tried to tell it fun things like charge me 1p for an unlimited Â£25/mo package and it ignored me. :(
<Azelphur> I also stripped out all of the pointless information it doesn't use and just gave it the goodybag name, which worked fine
<Azelphur> they also have some weird "login token" for logging in, besides a username and password, giffgaff developers are weird.
<popey> AlanBell: what was the politics talk you gave last year?
<popey> at oggcamp
<AlanBell> votegeek
<popey> thats it
<AlanBell> all about the election and why you should vote
<AlanBell> and the different possible outcomes
<hamitron> I bet that is hard to talk about, without upsetting someone?
<hamitron> ;)
<GreenDance> evening all
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<GreenDance> I would like to create a bash script, can a bash script be set to takeover the whole screen and change the background color?
<AlanBell> hamitron: not really, I wasn't at all partisan
<AlanBell> it was more about the voting rules and the different hung parliament possibilities
<BigRedS> GreenDance: sort-of. You can in the bash script send commands to the bits responsible for the background colour, and spawn full-screen windows. It might not be that portable, though - wWhat is it that you're aiming to do?
<hamitron> ah :)
<GreenDance> BigRedS: I am aiming to create a script that is user friendly and looks nice :)
<BigRedS> user friendly probably isn't spawning full screen windows and messing around with the background colour...
<BigRedS> :)
<GreenDance> BigRedS: do you know of any examples of user friendly bash scripts please?
<BigRedS> GreenDance: it depends upon your definition of 'user friendly'. Normally (IME/IMO) it's something that just gets on with whatever I want it to do without faffing or getting in the way
<BigRedS> it sounds like that's not your definition :)
<shauno> nvidia's run.sh's used to be dialog-based
<hamitron> used to be?
<hamitron> didn't realise they'd changed it
<hamitron> :-o
<shauno> it may still be, I just haven't used it in forever
<shauno> the least contentious reason being that I don't have nvidia anymore :)
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> don't the ati ones use a proper gui?
<shauno> dunno, I've always installed that from apt
<hamitron> I think it was the thing AMD provide, that I buiilt a .deb with
<hamitron> looks really nice
<michelle_> Apologies, anyone know the channel for Cinelerra support?
<Azelphur> michelle_: #cinelerra
<michelle_> Many thanks!
<cbx33> hi all
<popey> hullo
<cbx33> sudo update-alternatives --config wish     --    what would this affect in ubuntu 11.04
<popey> !info wish
<popey> its a virtual package
<lubotu3> Package wish does not exist in natty
<cbx33> http://puredata.info/docs/faq/on-gnu-linux-the-fonts-are-strange-and-or-too-big-or-small - for example
<bigcalm> SSDs are cool
<popey> :D
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/07/20/s04e11-the-trooper/
 * StevenR wonders when the approval application is due
<shauno> ugh.  the pain of updating your OS, and being told wget has disappeared again
<jamesdc> Hey, has anybody here have any experience with using Ubuntu and FakeRAIDs?
<StevenR> jamesdc: I use mdraid
<jamesdc> The problem is, I wouldn't mind using a software raid, however i'd still like to be able  to duel boot and use windows. I'm just having trouble getting ubuntu to recognise my raid array as one big drive, it still sees them as multiple drives
<cbx33> with update alternatives is there a way to see the current setting?
<BigRedS> cbx33: list-alternatives I think
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> ok
<BigRedS> jamesdc: I've none myself, but most I've seen isn't pleasant.
<jamesdc> It looks like the best way to do it is having a linux software raid on some partitions on each HHD, and then a windows software raid on some partitions on each HHD BigRedS. Apparently fakeraids are rubbish
<BigRedS> yeah, they are. That much I know about them :)
<BigRedS> If you want to raid it, that's about your only way I think
<BigRedS> I'd not trust asking either OS to read and write to a sw raid of the other :)
<BigRedS> but, yeah, fakeraid isn't usd *that* much and it requires a peculiarly large amount of hardware support so it's quite neglected. And it's not very good anyway
<jamesdc> Yes I agree. Although i'm a little anxious about letting windows have a raid again. The last time I had a software raid it made a real mess and a lost quite a bit of data
<BigRedS> well, what do you want the raid for?
<jamesdc> Well i've got 4x640GB drives, and an SSD aswell as a big 2TB HHD now. So, the SSD takes the OSes and the new 2TB HHD takes my media. So i'm left with 4x640GB HHDs that I might aswell raid into either a raid 1+0, or raid 5
<jamesdc> Although, I will struggle to fill them, I just don't like wasting hardware
<BigRedS> I'd just use one drive and backup onto the other...
<jamesdc> Yeah I suppose I should, although I might aswell raid them and try to get extra speed since anything important i'll have backed up on an external drive which is the 2TB one
<BigRedS> are you actually I/O bound?
<jamesdc> What do you mean?
<BigRedS> I'm always skeptical of adding the complexity of a raid for no real reason. Unless there's a good reason not to I'd much rather throw my bits straight at the disks
<BigRedS> well, if you're never maxing your i/o bandwidth, then there's no point trying to get faster i/o
<jamesdc> Yeah your right. I think i'll go for the raid 1+0, since that way it uses all the drives and backs up at the same time
<jamesdc> I just hate wasting hardware!
<BigRedS> raid isn't a backup. it's failover
<jamesdc> Yeah
<jamesdc> Okay, how about a raid 0, using three drives, plus the 4th drive for a manual backup?
<BigRedS> I don't mind what you do :) I'd keep it simple and use one drive for data and rsync it repeatedly to the other one
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E11  The Trooper - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/07/20/s04e11-the-trooper/
<jamesdc> Shall do BigRedS, thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-21
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/730617
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 730617 in unity (Ubuntu) "When using scale/expose, windows don't keep their order" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ali1234> ^ everyone vote for this bug please :)
<ali1234> and this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/791412
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 791412 in unity (Ubuntu) "Does not switch to right desktop upon launcher click, when target application is side-window-snapped" [Medium,Triaged]
<ali1234> and this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/772612
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 772612 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "maximized window is displaced" [High,Triaged]
<ali1234> those are my top three most annoying unity bugs :)
<ali1234> that last one claims to be fixed in "unity 3.8.16 SRU2" whatever that means
<ali1234> i have 3.8.16 installed; it's still broken
<shauno> popey: you're on ios5 beta I believe? tried the g+ app?
<HazRPG> ali1234: Hmm, your actually using 11.04? I'm still on 10.10, updating applications that need updating manually or through ppa's.
<diplo-> Morning all
<HazRPG> diplo-: morning :)
<MooDoo> hi all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<BigRedS> good morning!
<MooDoo> morning BigRedS
<DJones> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning kids :)
<iulian> Morning.
<BigRedS> Ah, morning MooDoo
<popey> shauno: yes :D
<popey> shauno: there was an update to the G+ app on IOS last night
<shauno> ah.  handy.  because it was pants on mine.  was curious if it was me, or ios5 :)
<shauno> hm.  it's not offering me an update.  I expect the irish store's a bit 'behind'.  would be apropos
<oimon> wow, hotot has just received quite a big UI update
<ali1234> speaking of UI updates
<ali1234> what happened to calibre in natty?
<ali1234> it used to have a fairly decent UI
<gord> does anyone have any idea how you can get xchat to not randomly copy bits of irc all the time?
<MartijnVdS> gord: copy? as in put in the pastebuffer?
<MartijnVdS> gord: don't randomly select text all the time :)
<gord> MartijnVdS, right, that bit is dumb, how do i get it to not do that
<gord> selecting is not the same as copying!
<MartijnVdS> gord: well, not really.. but select + middle click > select + copy + paste
<gord> MartijnVdS, click irc window, oh no now my entire copypaste buffer is destroyed with random irc crap is not fun
<gord> it allows unintentional destruction
<ali1234> speaking of intentional destruction
<ali1234> why does the "add repository" dialog always clear the clipboard?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: because you haven't filed a bug about it?
<ali1234> it's been this way for years i always assumed it was intentional
<ali1234> what's the name of that software sources program?
<ali1234> it's the same thing used by software center and synaptic
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: apt-add-repository oid?
<gord> software-properties-gtk
<MartijnVdS> hm, I'm mixing languages here.. "oid" = "of iets dergelijks" = "or something" :)
<shauno> so 'dergelijks' would be akin to 'of the like' ?
<shauno> or the like .. mayhaps
<ali1234> well that's interesting. it doesn't happen if i run it stand alone with gksudo
<bigcalm> popey: what's the power usage of the HP server compared to the Revo?
<ali1234> oh wait yeah it does
<ali1234> it clears the selection buffer, not the clipboard
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/813948
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 813948 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk clears selection buffer when adding a repository" [Undecided,New]
<popey> Morning all
<Myrtti> meh
<MooDoo> morning popey
<MooDoo> and hugs for Myrtti :D
<JGJones> Morning...
<Myrtti> zoinks
<JGJones> having read on twitter about numerous people upgrading to osx lion - I just realised...to upgrade to the server version it's another $50
<voidspace> JGJones: a lot less than it used to be though...
<JGJones> and apparently that comes with Xsan Clustered File System - which Apple used to charge thousands for
<voidspace> right
<voidspace> speaking of filesystems
<voidspace> what should I use for a new server box - ext4, btrfs?
<JGJones> Am imaging - you could make a cheap SAN with thunderbolt and disk array that support iSCSI making use of xsan?
<JGJones> voidspace, I'll pick ext4
<voidspace> JGJones: seems reasonable
<voidspace> JGJones: getting Ubuntu server onto the HP Proliant Microserver was beautifully easy
<JGJones> voidspace, the reason due to its stability. I don't know enough about btrfs to use it on a server
<voidspace> JGJones: right
<oimon> btrfs isn't mature yet, fsck can't fix errors even
<bigcalm> Good greif HDDs are slow. Never going back from SSD now. This is going to get expensive
<voidspace> JGJones: I'm going to RAID 5 the disks with mdadm first
<voidspace> oimon: sounds like a reason to use ext4
<BigRedS> can libparted interfere with ext4 yet?
<BigRedS> or whatever the frontent that comes with ubuntu is
<czajkowski> Good morning
<BigRedS> good morning!
<MooDoo> czajkowski, no aloha?
<czajkowski> aloa
<czajkowski> Aloha
<oimon> aloe vera
<MooDoo> czajkowski, that's better, i know it's you now :D
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> morning MooDoo you plaquing czajkowski already
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a big hug to annoy her some more
 * TheOpenSourcerer Just watched Atlantis land for the very last time.
<MooDoo> davmor2, i was showing my concern
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer, rats missed it
<czajkowski> now I'm happy http://twitpic.com/5tes46
<MooDoo> yum
<czajkowski> yes indeed
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> why is having a baby so stressful lol
<bigcalm> This machine's crashy problems are starting to annoy me.
<davmor2> MooDoo: cause where would the fun be if it wasn't ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, i'm stressed out now lol more bloodtests for the misses, kidney functions now :S
<davmor2> MooDoo: ha ha! ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, not funny
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I hope everything it alright
<davmor2> is even
<MooDoo> davmor2, i'm sure it will be but i'm a big worryer :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think you always are when it's the better half too be honest
<MooDoo> davmor2, and the new nipper
<bigcalm> Wah, Twitter OAUTH is making my brain itch
<MartijnVdS> Itch? It made mine bleed...
<bigcalm> I've had too much or too little coffee
<bigcalm> Not sure which it is, best just keep drinking
<dwatkins> I considered setting up a script to post to twitter from an application I run, but OAUTH made it so I needed a month to get my head around it.
<MooDoo> popey, are you not interested in awards or just that one?
<popey> dunno
<popey> i am under no illusion that we'd win for starters
<Daviey> bigcalm: Yeah, i miss simple auth.
<BigRedS> my twitter scripts use a single set of developer keys, which seems to work
<BigRedS> I've no idea how you're supposed to do it - this worked and so I stopped trying to get my head round it
<bigcalm> This is the library I'm using in PHP http://www.jaisenmathai.com/articles/twitter-async-documentation.html
<bigcalm> It helps an amazing about, but it's still not a 5 min exercise
<Daviey> bigcalm meet python-mechanize. :)
<bigcalm> s/about/amount
<bigcalm> Daviey: I should learn me this Python some day
<Daviey> bigcalm: or use perl mechanize.
<bigcalm> So, use anything but PHP?
<bigcalm> :P
<Daviey> bigcalm: Is that deprecated now?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Daviey: it is paying for me to attend Oggcamp, so thankfully not yet
<Daviey> bigcalm: seems so.. i just tried to use php.. and got an error.. how can i hide it?
<Daviey> http://php.daviey.com/
<Daviey> ahh!  I can append ~E_DEPRECATED
<Daviey> Yeah, seems to hide the deprecation warning if i hide deprecation warnings
<bigcalm> Nutta :P
<dogmatic69> anyone know how i can put one mysql table in a ramdisk?
<dogmatic69> s/table/database
<BigRedS> you could mount a ramdisk at /var/lib/mysql/dbname?
<BigRedS> there's probably a more sensible way of doing it, though
<MooDoo> czajkowski, please stop with your bad jokes on twitter ;)
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: that might just work
<dogmatic69> hope it does not corrupt everything :S
<Daviey> dogmatic69: if you want REALLY fast writes, you should write to /dev/null.. it's must faster than a ramfs.
<Daviey> s/must/much
<dogmatic69> Daviey: its for the dest database
<dogmatic69> test..
<dogmatic69> not production :D
<Daviey> ah
<dogmatic69> the thought did cross my mind, but SELECT * FROM /dev/null throws missing table errors for some reason
<Daviey> then you are doing it wrong.. the data store and schema should be able to be split.
<dogmatic69> ?
<dogmatic69> the test writes a row, and then tests that its there.
<dogmatic69> to /dev/null it would never be there
<Daviey> ah! you said it was throwing missing table errors
<dogmatic69> it would :D
<Daviey> :/
<Daviey> dogmatic69: Use the 'memory' storage engine then.
<dogmatic69> Daviey: for the tests, it uses the same exact schema as the production. you cant change the engine for the tests as you will not be testing it properly
<BigRedS> Daviey: that's cheating.
<BigRedS> it depends what the 'it' you're testing is
<Daviey> dogmatic69: Well under the covers it == MyISAM.
<dogmatic69> and memory indexes dont work the same way that innodb does
<dogmatic69> ew, who uses myisam :P
<Daviey> who uses mysql for production these days? :)
<dogmatic69> non-fanboys
<Daviey> interesting.
<dogmatic69> people that have real computers and dont use ruby
<MooDoo> ips
<MooDoo> isp's
<gord> czajkowski, and you call me odd :P
<AlanBell> it isn't a zero sum game, you can both be odd
<czajkowski> gord: no I say you're special
<czajkowski> why am I odd....
<gord> twitter :P
<gord> i can't reply to twitter so i have to reply via irc
<czajkowski> why cant you reply to twitter....
<popey> one word
<popey> "Gwibber"
<gord> hey hey, its only because i'm using the in-development new version :P
<czajkowski> oh me and gwibber had a falling out, so I've poked the nice ken as I cant even launch it
<gord> i'm on O, i expect things to be broken
<gord> new gwibber is pretty much the greatest though
<MooDoo> gord, is it just one page or can you extend it to show all feeds abit like tweetdeck?
<MooDoo> ie multiple columns
<gord> MooDoo, i'v no idea :) i don't like to use things like that though so i'v not tried
<davmor2> gord: except when you want to reply, launch it from the messaging menu, and it uses 98% of the cpu when fetching.  then it rocks hard :D
<gord> there is a bug with converting the backend model in to the frontend model, but ken's working on it :)
<davmor2> gord: oh and if you want to translate a message
<gord> translate a message?
<czajkowski> gord: use web so :)
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/5tes46  SO DAMN TASTY
<davmor2> gord: in old gwibber if you have friends like Ursula that send out tweets in spanish you could click on the cog in the message and click translate this and it did can't in the new one :(
<dogmatic69> ok, i think ive mounted this thing to a ramdisk.. how can i confirm this?
<gord> davmor2, you could? crazy, i don't think it would be too hard to add, poke ken :)
<davmor2> gord: already a bug for it along with the rest :)
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: umount the ramdisk and see what breaks?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: it will just degrade to the normal hdd
<BigRedS> and find an empty directory
<dogmatic69> if there is something in the folder when creating the ramdisk, that will not be removed, i should hope
<dogmatic69> i would think it coppies from the path -> ram and then goes about as per normal
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I'd do mv /var/lib/mysql/dbname /somewhere/dbname; mount ramdisk; mv /somewhere/dbname/* /var/lib/mysql/dbname
<BigRedS> though
<BigRedS> else you'll never retrieve that space, and you'll have *horrible* confusion if MySQL ever starts without the ramdisk
<dogmatic69> ill put the ramdisk in bootup script somewhere
<BigRedS> and have the boot fail if for some reason it can't mount it?
<BigRedS> if you leave old data knocking around, if for whatever reason mysql starts and has no ramdisk it'll just write the data to the old db and you'll have no idea unless you particularly ask it
<dogmatic69> that is fine
<BigRedS> for the non-hassle of emptying that dir, it makes no sense to keep it full
<dogmatic69> its a test db
<dogmatic69> it gets truncated before a test starts
<BigRedS> in fact, it'd be easier to set up if it's somewhere else...
<BigRedS> ah, fair enough. just disposable data
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> the data is in fixtures that gets inserted into mysql before the test
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp 11  its happening - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/13/oggcamp-11-its-happening/
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: its about 30% faster on the ram disk
<daubers> lo
<dogmatic69> o/
<oimon> anyone know of a fix i can apply to a windows box connecting to a samba server that requires DOMAIN/user as the login?
<oimon> i want it to use DOMAIN by default. they are on a workgroup rather than a domain
<JGJones> I have no idea where my phone is and this is increasingly common for me
<Kirrus> phone ut?
<Kirrus> s/ut/it/
<oimon> buy a tablet instead, so it's harder to lose :P
<JGJones> yeah I have a tablet - that's why my phone keep getting mislaid
<JGJones> Kirrus, it doesn't make any noise
<brobostigon> put prey on it. so you can text it, and it makes loads of noise, and gives its gps position, so you can find it.
<Kirrus> JGJones: give up and use landlines
<JGJones> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.koushikdutta.desktopsms - this app is what make me lose my phone all the time - there's no need to keep it on me to check for messages :)
<JGJones> brobostigon, yeah I have prey on it. GPS tells me it's at home.
<gord> someone should make an app that can use the microphone to pick up on the phrase "where the <expletive of your choice> is my phone?" and make it start making a noise
<brobostigon> JGJones: hmm, ok.
<JGJones> Noise - never thought of that...will have to wait for my kids to get home from school so they can hear for it for me.
<brobostigon> gord: i have a ringtone like that, it says. "its the wife calling, its the wife." in a firm but soft voice.
<JGJones> lol
<JGJones> make you pick up quickly?
<brobostigon> JGJones: not really, just for the humour really.
<JGJones> I have a similar thing to you brobostigon - got an app called Contact Vibrate - assign different vibration pattern to contacts - so the wife get a long and rather annoying vibration (no reference to her character, it's to ensure I actually feel it vibrating and can answer...smartphone vibration aren't that strong)
<oimon> no one else rings me except my wife, that's how i know it's her.
<JGJones> the DeskSMS app although is great...get a SMS, it goes to your email/jabber chat
<oimon> we usually have an arrangement that she hangs up after 2 rings anyway
<BigRedS> Ah, saves the conversation that way :)
<brobostigon> JGJones: ah, interesting. i dont actually have a partner, i just have it to make me laugh.
<dwatkins> I'm still hoping someone will make a Morse code ringtone app, to play the first 5 letters of people's names when they call.
<shauno> you know you're a geek ..
<BigRedS> haha
<JGJones> dwatkins, not quite the same thing - but the contact vibrate app can do that - vibrate in a morse code pattern
<BigRedS> surely by now it'd just read out their names?
<dwatkins> JGJones: excellent
<JGJones> Or you can use these - https://market.android.com/search?q=morse+code+ringtone :D
<dwatkins> wow, didn't see those before, cheers :)
<shauno> I guess you could fake it by creating a different ringtone for each person.  doing it automagically would be serious nerd cred tho
<dwatkins> shauno: that was my plan :D
<shauno> (not just geek.  nerd.  in my book, if you cna copy anything more than 'cq' you're totally into pocket-protector territory)
<JGJones> https://market.android.com/details?id=net.kgmoney.MorseRing - look like this will do that as ringtone or as vibrate etc
<JGJones> Not free - it's about 60p
<dwatkins> yeah, I was just reading that JGJones :)
<andylockran> set my mother up on ubuntu last night
<andylockran> another #mumbuntu for popey's checklist.
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> hooray, andylockran
<andylockran> her mac mini had gotten ridonkulously slow.
<dwatkins> I didn't know Macs had that trouble.
<JGJones> They do get slow - unless you shove in as much RAM as you can
<awilkins> popey, My dear old grey haired mum is on Ubuntu also
<awilkins> Maverick, not Natty. Didn't want to scare her too much with Unity.
<dwatkins> JGJones: ah I see, I thought it was like the DLL issues Windows tends to experience after much installing and uninstalling over the years
<JGJones> dwatkins, no idea if they suffer from OS Rot like Windows - but generally they don't. But as you upgrade to next version...then yup, they get slower
<awilkins> Things wot load themselves into the Explorer process are horrible in Windows
<awilkins> As are virus scanners
<dwatkins> Virus scanners are a necessary evil, though.
<awilkins> We switched from Symantec to McAfee at work - went from about 4% cpu usage during file access to more like 40%
<awilkins> That's more than necessary evil
<dwatkins> Oh right, yeah - that's unacceptable, awilkins.
<dwatkins> We use Mcaffe at work, I just put up with it as I have no choice.
<awilkins> (I run without a virus scanner at home - I just don't visit dodgy sites or transact any kind of business with Windows)
<awilkins> Only play games on my Windows install now
<awilkins> So the worst malware I've got is game DRM
<popey> I will probably upgrade my mum to natty soon
<dwatkins> iAntiVirus was using loads of CPU on my Macbook Pro at one point, I had to disable it so it didn't do that every time the machine came out of sleep.
<gord> my version of windows might as well just be called SteamOS
<davmor2> gord: haha nice
 * AlanBell doesn't use virus scanners at work
<oimon> mcafee doesn't actually detect viruses anymore, in my experience
<popey> yeah, same here
<popey> (steamOS)
<awilkins> If only they did Windows For Games as opposed to Games for Windows
<dwatkins> Isn't that what the Xbox is for?
<dwatkins> Cut-down-windows-so-you-can-play-games
<gord> in a way, but without the most important component, a mouse
<awilkins> True, but XBox has some flaws. i) I only have 1 television, which the wifelet likes to monopolize ii) they don't release all the good PC games on console
<awilkins> And yes ; mouse input is important
<dwatkins> You can get a VGA cable for the xbox.
<awilkins> Fair enough ; A Kinect would be incompatible with my matchbox of an office though :)
<gord> i wish onlive would make a version for ubuntu, that would be great
<dwatkins> Yeah, I prefer to play my games sitting down.
<gord> play windows games from linux, without the problems of compatibility :)
<awilkins> I still have grave doubts about Onlive as a concept
<dwatkins> gord: I suspect with it only having a tiny percentage of the desktop market, they just don't see the need.
<popey> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTY4NA
<popey> "OnLive Is Hiring More Engineers For Linux Client"
<gord> dwatkins, 1% of windows gamers might think its a good idea, but i'm sure a much larger percentage would think its a good idea for linux
<popey> indeed
<dwatkins> What percentage of the desktop market does Ubuntu have at the moment?
<gord> eightymadeup percent
<gord> why would you even ask that? ;)
<dwatkins> The figure I remember was  closer to 5%.
<gord> that figure was made up
<BigRedS> how's it calculated?
<gord> all figures are made up
<dwatkins> BigRedS: by browser header info
<dwatkins> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
<BigRedS> Hah
<popey> hah
<BigRedS> nice and representative sample
<popey> no way are we at 5%
<BigRedS> According to slashot stats BSD's probably at 12% or something
<dwatkins> I don't know of a better way to determine OS distribution.
<BigRedS> well, you'd at least take an average of a bunch of sites
<ali1234> ask everyone you know IRL what they use
<gord> linux is pretty big in china these days, that would really inflate our statistics, but at the same time, potentially untrackable
<BigRedS> but even then you'd accept that you're leaning heavily towards people who browse a lot
<gord> its all just made up, but its certainly more than 5 people
<popey> I'd suspect we're at about 0.4%
<BigRedS> w3schools is a pretty dumb choice if you're going to pretend it's representative. Facebook would be better if you want some *single* site. Or google.
<BigRedS> s/pretend it's/pretend a single site is/
<gord> i don't think any of those are good
<BigRedS> no they're not *good*
<gord> much more windows install on bing
<BigRedS> just better than w3schools
<BigRedS> which isn't hard
<davmor2> popey: I wonder if those stats register android as linux then it might be
<ali1234> the only reasonable way to track it is by sales figures
<ali1234> nobody cares about after market installs
<BigRedS> well, it depends why you care
<BigRedS> if you're developing something for linux, it's way more important how many of your potential customers are using linux than what proportion of the world is
<ali1234> if you care because you are trying to sell shovelware then after market installs are not something you should care about
<bigcalm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems # of any use?
<dwatkins> http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201004-201104 - they use the logs from millions of sites to ascertain OS share
<dwatkins> haha, different numbers again
<dwatkins> anyway, my point was, Linux is a tiny part of the OS market, so I can understand a games company being reluctant to spend money supporting it.
<bigcalm> I'd say that Google analytics knows the answer
<BigRedS> *an* answer. Arguably, Linux users are more likely to be hiding themselves from google :)
<bigcalm> Why hide yourself from google analytics?
<daubers> bigcalm: So _they_ can't find me!
 * daubers puts on his XXL tinfoild hat and quivers under the stairs
<BigRedS> to stop google tracking what you're doing, generally
<bigcalm> I'm sure that there is a sub-set of any os users that try to hide
<bigcalm> But the majority just don't care
<bigcalm> Or don't care enough to do something about it
<dwatkins> The other trouble is that these stats don't take dual-booting into account as far as I know.
<bigcalm> That would be impossible to track without having a unique ID for every machine set up
<bigcalm> And then that ID being passed about
<dwatkins> Indeed, you probably don't want to enter your MAC address into Google to browse the web.
<BigRedS> is dual-booting any different to having two machines from that perspective?
<bigcalm> But, a lot of dual booting machines will get the same IP from their DHCP server. Once IPv6 is everywhere, machines might become traceable via just their IP address
<bigcalm> BigRedS: you're only using 1 machine at a time. I guess it's which ever you use more frequently and for longer
<BigRedS> well, what you care about normally isn't the number of installs (unless you're selling installs) but the amount of use. if you've 5% of installs, but each of those users dual-boots and only uses yours 5% of the time, you've a 2.5% share
<BigRedS> of course, that makes it even harder to get a number :)
<ali1234> the only thing that matters is how many sales in your app store
<awilkins> With the games business larger than the movie industry, a tiny percentage of that pie is still juicy and sweet though .....
<BigRedS> ali1234: well, yeah. This discussions is entirely academic
<BigRedS> :)
<ali1234> it's not even academic
<BigRedS> I meant in the sense of not being of practical importance, rather than being of some studious value
<dwatkins> It's more that with the amount of effort required to port a game, it's proably much less cost-effective to support Linux than it is to just concentrate on OS X and Windows.
<awilkins> Also depends on your platform
<awilkins> If you're a DirectX kinda game, you're not porting
<dwatkins> yeah, awilkins - I imagine some game engines have been ported, but others never will be
<Catbuskris_> our market share will grow larger in time.  i have faith
<BigRedS> I don't really care about market share
<BigRedS> there's enough people using linux that there's a bunch of good software for it
<BigRedS> and enough people wanting it to be *good* that it is
<dwatkins> Yeah, although some of the documentation could improve, it's already a huge community, which is excellent.
<BigRedS> so long as the market share is such that it's at least half as good as it is now through attracting developers, I'm happy
<oimon> wow, linux is catching on vista
<oimon> only just read the scrollback
<BigRedS> hah
<popey> ooo, its the thing in london on sunday
<oimon> what thing?
 * oimon is working on saturday..
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1032/detail/
<oimon> phew
<oimon> thought you meant a massive demonstration or something , and i wouldn't be able to get to work
<bigcalm> So many broken images on that page
 * popey notes I said "sunday"
<popey> yeah, wonder why
<DJones> I wonder whether this phone gets a BSOD http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/21/fujitsu_windows_7_pc_phone/
<oimon> misread sunday for saturday...worrying
 * BigRedS is working on Sunday
<czajkowski> popey: oh I'd forgotten about that event good thing you posted here or I'd have missed it
<czajkowski> it's only up the road here from me
<bastubis> Hi - we're doing some basic ubuntu training at Fossbox today - I'm showing people how to get to ubuntu-uk
<rome> hi
<hamitron> hi :)
<bastubis> They haven't been in IRC before
 * oimon rolls out a red carpet
<davmor2> czajkowski: you need to go to the #naughtystep till you learn to remeber stuff (you could be there for a while obviously :P
 * hamitron walks along it
<bastubis> Thanks::)
<Ya-Umme> hi every1
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<Ya-Umme> this is cool
<Ya-Umme> feel bright about computers
<davmor2> morning rome Ya-Umme
<Ya-Umme> o lala
<leroy> hi to the folks @ fossbox
<Ya-Umme> bbc2, monday 9pm, 1 2 Watch
<oimon> bastubis: do you need PCs @ fossbox?
<bastubis> always!
<piouchi> I am so excited to be joining the Linux community.
<bastubis> what's the spec?
<bastubis> we're especially desperate for 6 laptops right now
<bastubis> we had people sharing them yesterday
<leroy> this is a cool seminar - learning nuff!
<oimon> dell dimension 3000 PC, p4 3.2 ghz, 512mb RAM, 80gb disk - run ubuntu nicely
<bastubis> great - thanks!
<bastubis> but we don't have transport
<rome> hello every one @ fossbox
<oimon> you're in e1?
<tyson_> hi
<tyson_> hello
<bastubis> yes, St katharines Way
<rome> hello mack
<rome> how r u?
<Ya-Umme> nice u could join in the discussion Tyson
<rome> ahhhh
<Myrtti> hello
<leroy> this is so cool
<rome> i am loving the ubuntun operating system its great
<czajkowski> davmor2: eh I don't take orders from you
<popey> :D
<popey> Hello leroy, having fun?
<leroy> hi popey - yes indeed! You?
<popey> great thanks âº
<leroy> Doing ubuntu @ fossbox today
<Myrtti> â¥ popey
<hamitron> too many fancy symbols :/
<Myrtti> your IRC fonts are full of fail then :->
<bigcalm> Just type Â£ to confuse an American ;)
<Myrtti> lol :-D
<hamitron> Â£ is cool symbol
<hamitron> ;/
<oimon> Myrtti: worked for me :)
<hamitron> the smiley face and the heart display right for me also
<hamitron> still fancy
<hamitron> ;)
<davmor2> Myrtti: put popey down you don't know where he's been
<oimon> where's the ubuntu unicode symbol?
<hamitron> I'm only jealous I don't have a keyboard with hearts and smilies
 * oimon goes to dragons den with a keyboard for friendly people
<Myrtti> davmor2: I was going to make a remark that would have made sense were popey a cat, but it sounded wrong :-P
<hamitron> dress it in pink, and I bet it would sell
<hamitron> ;D
<Myrtti> hamitron: irssi autocomplete ftw â¥
<popey> :D
<oimon> popey: how long does it take blogs to get initially added to ubuntu-uk? days or weeks
<popey> near instant if you poke me, Daviey or xen
<hamitron> it owuld look dodgy if I started pasting hearts all over, my trademark is a sulk :/
 * oimon poke
<Myrtti> hamitron: no need to paste, irssi does it automagically :->
<ali1234> ð 
<davmor2> Myrtti: I can imagine haha
<hamitron> ali1234 broke it all!
<hamitron> :(
<ali1234> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f620/index.htm
<hamitron> 01F620
<ali1234> instead of typing :( imma just type 1f620 from now on, k?
<hamitron> hehe
 * Myrtti contemplates on what kind of a cupcake to make for oggcamp.
 * BigRedS requests carrot cake
<Myrtti> I wasn't going to make a huge batch :->
<BigRedS> In fact, I might bring some
<BigRedS> that was a general request for cake, not necessarily at oggcamp or as cupcakes
<Myrtti> but carrot cupcakes are nice
<BigRedS> carrot cake now would be ideal in fact :)
<ali1234> let's hope they're not ð© cakes
<Myrtti> with philly icing on top
 * BigRedS doesn't have an internationalised terminal
 * hamitron neither
<Myrtti> well, if nobody brings cake, I'll go shopping for some. I need cake on that day.
<oimon> popey: polite poke/request : i'm added to wiki, just needs the extra magic to add it to planet ..much obliged
<Myrtti> if I don't make some myself
<davmor2> ali1234: to quote czajkowski >:-(
<hamitron> and tea? :D
<bastubis> thanks guys - that was really welcoming - people are being really affirmative about ubuntu!
<bastubis> Laters . .. wrapping up
<popey> \o/
<Myrtti> _o/
<bigcalm> \o_
<oimon> A ?
<oimon>  /o/
<oimon> aggh fail
<oimon> were you doing the YMCA dance?
<ikonia> that should be a test on the krypton factor
<Myrtti> aw, what am I doing wrong here... the video doesn't show up... was going to watch a time lapse of Atlantis being prepped for takeoff
<Myrtti> http://www.airspacemag.com/multimedia/videos/Go-For-Launch.html
<hamitron> such old tech, men in space :/
<hamitron> future is remotely controlled weapons, shooting down satalites :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: why am I being quoted!
<davmor2> czajkowski: just cause you say it best :D
<oimon> i can't believe how idiotic this is: "David andÂ Victoria BeckhamÂ may have been overjoyed to welcome their new daughter, but, according to a growing group of campaigners, the birth of their fourth child make the couple bad role models and environmentally irresponsible."
<ali1234> lol
<hamitron> mathematically they are helping the pensions crisis? ;)
<ali1234> as if the whole of the rest of their lifestyle isn't quite as bad as having 4 kids
<popey> plant a tree
<hamitron> actually, am i allowed to burn things, when I plant trees?
<gord> i don't think you are just allowed to burn whatever you want ;)
<hamitron> well, no
<hamitron> haha
<popey> a gay friend of mine likes to point out that he has a smaller carbon footprint because he doesnt have children
<popey> then I point out he has dogs
<popey> which undoes that argument
<hamitron> but, if I plant 6 tree, can i burn 5 of them, and still be green?
<oimon> anyone that complains about them having 4 kids, i am tempted to say ..how would you feel if your parents chose to stop having children before you were born?
<popey> thats quite ridiculous though oimon
<popey> oimon: how would you feel if we'd never come out of the primordial soup!?
<popey> eh!? eh!?
<popey> how would YOU FEEL!
<oimon>  generalising, gay people (in bethanl green area) tend to have small dogs like pugs though
<AlanBell> as long as they don't set fire to the kids I am sure it will be fine
<hamitron> honestly, if my parents hadn't had me, I wouldn't feel a lot..... ;)
<popey> my friends have greyhounds
<popey> exactly hamitron
<oimon> well yes, tongue firmly in cheek of course.
<ali1234> this whole thing is stupid on so many levels
<oimon> my dog weighs < 5kg
<oimon> green party always were a bit communist anyway
<DJones> My dog weighs 22Kg
<hamitron> a bit? ;/
<oimon> :P
<ali1234> lol, "a bit"
<oimon> they are only green cos red was alrready taken
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> green certainly seems to be in style atm
<oimon> i am 4 out of 5 children
<hamitron> oimon: how come you are worth 4 times as much as the others?
<oimon> cos i'm special
<hamitron> oh yeh
<hamitron> keep forgetting
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> "special"
<oimon> thought i'd say it before anyone else
<hamitron> I'm in a very kind mood
<hamitron> also shatted, walked 24 miles today
<oimon> :-o
<hamitron> shattered too
<oimon> check your typing dude
<hamitron> haha
<gord> we just merged in my branch to unity, the diff is 2.1mb (just code). i'm rather proud
<AlanBell> yay, unity is fixed \o/
<oimon> wow \o/
<bigcalm> All of it?
<hamitron> nice
<gord> astyle on the entire trunk ;)
<hamitron> get it all ready for ubuntu 14.04
 * hamitron looking ahead
<AlanBell> what I would like in unity is a nice way to launch arbitary applications
<ali1234> the entire unity source package is only 3.5mb
<ali1234> so you must have touched over 50% of lines
<hamitron> or added to it?
<ali1234> (or just the really long ones)
<hamitron> ;)
<gord> AlanBell, define arbitary
<ali1234> AlanBell: yeah me too :)
<oimon> ordered a pallet of PCs last week..one was missing :(
 * hamitron covers his new PC
<gord> ali1234, we changed from foo (bar) to foo(bar), that covers a lot of the lines
<oimon> is arbitary anything like arbitrary?
<ali1234> good work, i hate foo (bar) style
<AlanBell> say I want to launch audacity, which I know is in the Sound & Video category
<AlanBell> how do I go see all the stuff I have in the sound & video category
<ali1234> CoF -> more apps -> all applications -> sound and video (but it has been renamed multimedia anyway)
<ali1234> and yeah, that is really horrible
<AlanBell> ali1234: then it shows me a couple of applications I have, plus a bunch I don't have
<ali1234> then you click "see x more results"
<AlanBell> and hides most of what I do have
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> that is actually an actual bug though
<ali1234> you should never see suggestions unless you are searching
<ali1234> anyway you don't have to tell me this stuff is rubbish
<ali1234> you're preaching to the choir
<gord> AlanBell, ah yes, the horrible drop down box was a result of only having six months to build unity, we'll have a better solution this cycle :)
<AlanBell> if it was "CoF -> all apps grouped by category" I would be totally happy
<ali1234> judging on past design decisions the "better solution" will probably involve doing away with the categories entirely and just presenting one massive list of everything
<oimon> like elementary OS?
<oimon> btw who is gonna sue apple ovr the launchpad name?
<gord> no one? why would we
<ali1234> ugh. the gmail app in android is suprisingly bad, considering...
<ali1234> it's telling me i've got 1 unread email. fine. but it won't show it. i have to scroll through a list of 3000 previously read emails until i find it
<ali1234> because everybody loves kinetic scrolling right?
<ali1234> so we should have as much of that as possible...
<shauno> when you say 'kinetic scrolling', I picture someone stood infront of their xbox, throwing two arms into the air.  repeatedly.  to scroll thru their mailbox
<ali1234> well that's pretty much what it's like
<ali1234> in so much as it's an unnecessary feature that doesn't add usability but consumers decided they want it anyway because it looks cool
<gord> i like it
<gord> lets me go get through a huge list of things quickly, how else would you?
<ali1234> nested submenus
<ali1234> or in this case, have an option to go to the next unread message
<ali1234> instead of forcing me to scroll through a never ending list of items looking for it
<ali1234> it really is never ending - when you get to the bottom it just loads more, and i have 4Gb of email
<ali1234> and in the end it turned out that i actually didn't have any unread emails
<ali1234> just the two screens were out of sync with each other
<ali1234> so the label list said i had 1 unread that i had already read, and then it didn't update
<ali1234> so yeah, like i said, pretty terrible, considering
<shauno> I use mutt.  tab takes me to the next unread message in a mailbox.  job done.
<oimon> usually a refresh fixes that for me
<ali1234> i use symbian. it has a button to go to the next unread, and it doesn't get out of sync with itself
<oimon> i like the gmail app on android
<ali1234> that's what i am using
<ali1234> it sucks
<oimon> yep, i like it
<oimon> :)
<ali1234> the built in default email client of symbian works better than this
<ali1234> also the battery life on this thing is awful
<ali1234> but it might just be worn out
<ali1234> it lasts about 12 hours
<oimon> should be better than that.
<oimon> somehow my phone charges quicker after i put CM7 on it
<hamitron> shauno: I reckon I should use a kinect for reading my email, major workout :D
<shauno> it could be interesting.  a punch gesture to killfile would make a lot of mailing lists a bit more enjoyable ;)
<shauno> "yes, I realise you still miss/resent/pine for -sounder, but *KAPOW*"
<hamitron> government could sponsor it, to solve the fat person problem
<hamitron> to reduce costs to us
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> IBM put Redhat/SUSE under the Linux download
<hamitron> and Ubuntu doesn't come under that, it is the Ubuntu download
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> reckon this will work? symphony_3.0-1hardy1_i386.deb
<shauno> I'd usually say no.  but it's you.  I've every reason to believe your OS may be old enough :p
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I'm on lucid
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> site reckons it is only 2 days old
<shauno> figures.  the dust is still settling on the apache move.  it was probably uploaded 2 days ago
<shauno> despite sitting on ice since 8.06
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> hardy doesn't even have support on the desktop now
<hamitron> download and see
<shauno> is it not out of LTS completely now?
<hamitron> 2013 on the server I believe
<shauno> or does the 5 years run from the last point-release
<shauno> ah.  yeah.  8+5 isn't 11.  long day :)
<hamitron> I have a load of systems still on 8.04
<hamitron> gonna format them soon
<shauno> I can't remember why I moved to 10.04.  I still haven't figured out what upstart wants to be when it grows up :(
<hamitron> I moved what machines I can to 10.04
<hamitron> purely for security updates
<BigRedS> it still seems to accept my calls to /etc/init.d so I'm happy
<BigRedS> I wont be when it stops
<hamitron> boot up times are faster though.....
<hamitron> :D
<gord> just realised that i was fanning myself to keep cool with my netbook, crazy world we live in
<hamitron> oh dear
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> gonna go get fisha and chips
<shauno> boot times I'm not worried about.  I don't have linux on anything I'll be sat in front of
<shauno> but sanity .. that's worth something :)
<hamitron> so be back in a few hours
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> no idea why boot times are not considered important on servers
<DJones> hamitron: Are you catching the fish as well?
<hamitron> 18 mile drive
<hamitron> eat them
<hamitron> 18 mile drive back
<hamitron> ;/
<BigRedS> AlanBell: because there's a fsck running every time you reboot it anyway
<hamitron> may grab a pint or 2 as well
<hamitron> laters o/
<shauno> boot times kinda matter, but trusting that things will come back up is more important.  and I simply don't understand upstart enough to trust it
<shauno> the difference between a service being down for 3, 5, 10 minutes, pales compared to a service being down, and staying down
<AlanBell> but if you can get it back up again before anyone notices then that would be good
<AlanBell> a server reboot should take less time than it takes a user to find and dial the telephone number of the support desk
<shauno> I literally have services that don't come up on boot, and I haven't figured out why not.  that's more annoying to me atm
<Daviey> hah.. i've got a few fairly high end servers that take ~5 mins to boot.
<BigRedS> Really, spontaneous reboots should be infrequent enough that it doesn't matter whether they can call you in that time
<DJones> AlanBell: Are you in #ubuntu-classroom? Current session, How to raise your teams activity level
<AlanBell> I am there and it is cheri703 standing in for paultag I think
<AlanBell> Daviey: exactly my point, they don't seem to put any engineering effort into boot time at all
<Daviey> :(
<Daviey> cloud baby!
<AlanBell> yeah, virtual all the way, but it still seems odd to me that you can boot a cheap desktop in less than 10 seconds but an expensive server takes minutes
<shauno> well, I'm sure they'll be paying more attention to it now that no-one actually cares about non-amazon servers.  since that now makes time=money
 * BigRedS remembers arranging 45mins to reboot the Exchange server
 * AlanBell remembers a mislabled plug
 * MartijnVdS remembers
<brobostigon> last time i rebooted my vps, it measured boot time, was 20 secs.
<awilkins> BigRedS, Hell, yes, remember the reboot time on Windows being heavily influenced by just how long it takes to shut down....
<awilkins> "You're TURNING OFF..... your disk light isn't flashing ... WHY do you need to clean up your MEMORY, stupid server"
<awilkins> Even my desktop machine does it
<AlanBell> czajkowski: is now presenting in #ubuntu-classroom, applause, questions and heckling in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what's she presenting?
<AlanBell> "An Overview of LoCo Guidance"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: btw, I'm bringing some cool food to the Geeknic on Sunday :)
<AlanBell> nom
<JamesTait> Hello expert experts of expertness. :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Am I reading the loco page correctly, meetup starts 11:00 at (near? where?) BL?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: howdy, stranger ;)
<JamesTait> Hey MartijnVdS. :) yeah, I've been heads-down for a while....
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes, 11:00, pondering location
<JamesTait> I was wondering what the main differences are between apt-proxy, approx, apt-cacher and apt-cacher-ng.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Platform 9Â¾ ;)
<AlanBell> could be at the entrance of the BL, or maybe somewhere more picknicish like Russel Square
<JamesTait> Since I'm now on a metered internet connection, it would be good if I could have one machine download updates during the super-cheap period, and the rest of my network get them from there.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: so I need to watch the mailing list, basically?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oi no heckling!
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: look for apt-cacher or approx, they're made for that kind of work
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: good suggestion actually
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King%27s_Cross_railway_station#Harry_Potter
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I don't know how accessible that is, now the rebuilding is done?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Well from what I've read, all four of those packages are, but I wondered if anyone had any hints as to why they're different, pros and cons of each.
 * MartijnVdS points in popey's general direction
<MartijnVdS> if anyone has played with them, it's him
<AlanBell> I will be in London tomorrow, might check it out
<MartijnVdS> Last time I saw it was in late 2003
<AlanBell> http://kingscrossstation.com/?page_id=10
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: I'll poke popey and/or drop a mail to the list later - thanks. :)
<matt_> lo
<daubers> Better :)
<AlanBell> hi daubers
<AlanBell> I am hearing good things about platform 9 3/4 as a place to meet up on Sunday
<daubers> AlanBell: \o/
 * daubers needs to bake a cake
<daubers> I'll be tubing around from Paddington, so am happy to meet people wherever :)
<AlanBell> there were squeals of excitement when I child-tested the platform 9Â¾ concept
<AlanBell> it is actually between platforms 8 and 9
<daubers> Heh, so we need pictures of random ubuntu-ites running into a wall?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] An Overview of LoCo Guidance - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/07/21/an-overview-of-loco-guidance/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: isn't that what being an Ubuntuite is all about? ;)
<gord> pictures? *super slow motion video*
<MartijnVdS> gord: with slowed-down soundtrack!
 * MartijnVdS has just started re-listening the books
<MartijnVdS> (Stephen Fry++)
 * daubers read 2 books and got bored
<popey> Evening all!
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Audio books work great for me while sitting on the train to work
<MartijnVdS> daubers: 2 hours of boredom/day fixed! :)
<popey> JamesTait: hullo!
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<Azelphur> Interesting, I think ebay sold/leaked my email address
<Azelphur> Started getting spam from etradehouse.com to my ebay address
<popey> JamesTait: I use squid-deb-proxy now
<popey> JamesTait: have used apt-mirror and debmirror
<KrimZon> sometimes I think I'm unlucky, but then I read my old code
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: then you know you're in hell, not just unlucky?
<KrimZon> I mean I look back and some stuff that I thought I worked out properly was just a guess, yet it worked
<MartijnVdS> and thay, my friends, is why we write unit tests
<daubers> nom nom nom apple pie
<AlanBell> I think I will check on the exact location of platform 9Â¾ tomorrow morning
<popey> hah
<popey> plum
<popey> http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/platform9.75.html
<AlanBell> it has moved due to building work
<popey> ahhhh
<popey> phone the station :D
<AlanBell> http://kingscrossstation.com/?page_id=10 they did have a half trolley in the wall there
<AlanBell> it has fairly recently been moved outside the station entrance http://annabelvita.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/platform-9-and-34/
<popey> gotcha
<popey> I am looking forward to Sunday
<popey> bringing Sam
<AlanBell> current plan is to meet at platform 9Â¾
<AlanBell> then go eat food
<AlanBell> then go to the library
<popey> good plan
<AlanBell> I had two kids drop out when I explained they couldn't take books out of the library
<AlanBell> "what kind of a stupid library is that then, I am not going"
<popey> O_O
<popey> your kids?
<AlanBell> yes
<popey> Ah
<popey> I have not explained anything about Sunday to Sam :D
<popey> Avoiding this awkwardness :D
<AlanBell> I tried to explain it was a kind of book museum rather than a library, but the damage was done
<popey> Silly rabbity
<popey> -y
<daubers> "Book museum"?
<daubers> In some cases it's a bit like a book graveyard
<popey> Book depository.
<daubers> memo to self: Hide from snipers
<daubers> Or was that a repository....
<AlanBell> memo to self, take sniper rifle
<daubers> Also, cake has been decided. I shall make chocolatey muffins, as they'll travel better
<daubers> BIG cake for oggcamp
<popey> Also.. we have a new sponsor
<popey> a company you may have heard of
<daubers> oh?
<popey> Google.
<popey> Which is nice.
<daubers> Heh :) That's kind of exciting
<daubers> What're they sponsering with? Dosh? Goodies?
<daubers> Hats?
<MartijnVdS> popey, daubers, AlanBell: Bring some un-buttered slices of bread -- you'll love what I'm bringing :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: O....k....
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculaas ("Modern paste recipe" subheading)
<popey> slices or a loaf?
<MartijnVdS> it has the consistency of peanut butter
<daubers> Ooooooooo
<MartijnVdS> so slices would be good, but if you're bringing a knife anyway.. a loaf would work too
<AlanBell> popey: "does the stupid library at least have a childrens section?" . . . "err, probably not"
<popey> hah
<popey> I am planning to bring a fondleslab
<popey> or maybe a book or something
<AlanBell> I will bring a fondleslab too, and one tall child
 * daubers always carries a book or two
 * popey always carries a book or 50
<daubers> :(
<daubers> still want a kindle
<daubers> at least amazon can't botch the delivery of an ebook
<popey> heh
<daubers> Wonder if my friends book is out by Sunday
 * daubers checks
<daubers> Apparently not :( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sworn-Sword-James-Aitcheson/dp/1848093241/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311278768&sr=8-1
<czajkowski> evening folks
<popey> pip pip
<daubers> lo
<czajkowski> chiroooo
<JGJones> How do I check if Ubuntu is detecting the firewire port on my laptop?
<JGJones> ah
<JGJones> its lspci
<JGJones> doh
<dogmatic69_> o/
<JGJones> and it finds it...
<JGJones> ok dokey...
<JGJones> I plug in a camcorder into the firewire....then...
<dogmatic69_> anyone know how i could achive a script that shows the progress in terminal of some process? something like htop
<JGJones> hmm I can't remember what it use in /dev for the camcorder?
<JGJones> kino think it's /dev/raw1394 but that doesn't exist
<dogmatic69_> say i have a cron that runs now and again for a while, and i want to see the progress in terminal
<JGJones> Hmm so kino use raw1394 but it also tells me that it's deprecated in kernal...so how does ubuntu pick up the video stream from a camcorder using firewire?
<JGJones> hmm...I suspect my firewire port on laptop is broken as it's not picking up camera so tested it on a external HDD that have firewire ports and that isn't detected
<dave01945> hi
 * popey wonders if Myrtti will be around on Sunday
<Myrtti> Sunday?
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1032/detail/
<popey> for that
<Myrtti> oh no.
<popey> â¹
<popey> shame
<Myrtti> I've got this family gathering type of thing on Saturday here in Finland :-C
<popey> ah okay
<popey> you are excused
<Myrtti> a.k.a a funeral
<Myrtti> I have made it a big issue to be at LugR... er OggCamp
<Myrtti> :-P
<popey> :D
<popey> Excellent.
<popey> Be lovely to see you.
<popey> Have you booked accomodation?
<Myrtti> it is my birthday and I'll be where ever I please then
<Myrtti> D was planning to commute from south coast but dunno
<Myrtti> I've had other things to worry about, I let him do the organisation of that trip
<JamesTait> JGJones: Did you figure out your firewire problem?
<JGJones> JamesTait, no - I suspect the firewire port on my laptop is broken
<popey> JamesTait: did you have a specific question about package caching?
<JGJones> as I have used the camcorder on the laptop in the past - um probably 2 years ago, but it worked "out of the box"
<JamesTait> JGJones: Possibly, but it could be permissions related. /dev/raw1394 has very restrictive permissions by default.
<JamesTait> popey: Hi! :D
<JGJones> plus since the laptop won't even detect the firewire ports on the external HDD's either (they also just works in the past)
<JamesTait> popey: Nothing specific, really, just the eternal Free Software problem of "there's so much choice, which one is the best?" :)
<popey> whats the requirement?
<JGJones> JamesTait, aye - raw1394 only get created when you plug in a camera - in my case nothing get created
<JGJones> JamesTait, via udev that is.
<JamesTait> popey: Very handwavy, really.  Only download package files from the internet once.  I don't care much how it achieves that.
<popey> lots of machines?
<popey> package building or just desktops?
<JamesTait> JGJones: Bear with me a mo, let me see if I can dig out my firewire camera and try this out. ;)
<popey> repeated installations or just usual updates?
<JGJones> JamesTait, you probably need dvgrab installed by the way
<JamesTait> popey: Several machines running Lucid i386, one of which is the machine I'm intending to cache the files on.
<JamesTait> popey: Just standard updates.  I don't build many new machines these days.
<popey> ok
<popey> on the box you want to be the "server", apt-get install squid-deb-proxy
<popey> on all machines (including the server) install squid-deb-proxy-client
<popey> then forget about it
<popey> job done
<popey> the clients will look for and find the server via avahi
<popey> if the server is down they will just not find it and go off to the repos as usual
<JGJones> that simple huh?
<popey> yes
<popey> magic
<popey> </steve_jobs>
<JGJones> been a while since I used squid...
<popey> you dont need to "use" quid
<popey> *squid
<JGJones> what would you use then?
<popey> its a customised package of squid and avahi, you don't actually *do* anything
<popey> thats what I use
<popey> but you dont need to know or do anthing other than install those packages
<JamesTait> popey: Sounds just about ideal then. :)
<popey> indeed :D
<JamesTait> popey: Fire and forget.
<popey> exactamundo
<JGJones> yup...that's fantastic.
<JGJones> what about log viewer - what would you recommend as the log viewer?
<popey> what logs?
<JGJones> for squid
<popey> meh
<popey> I never look at them
<popey> why would I
<popey> no apps will use it, only apt
 * JamesTait rummages around in boxes.
<JGJones> btw how do you find out which app is using a usb device?
<popey> what type of USB device?
<JGJones> in this case, it's a webcam
<popey> lsof | grep \/dev\/video
<popey> or something :D
<JamesTait> I can't find the blasted camera. :-/
<popey> cheese    11167       alan   30u      CHR               81,0      0t0       8804 /dev/video0
<popey> yup
<popey> that works
<JGJones> yeah that works...for my laptop camera
<JGJones> but I plugged in my logitech camera...and the green light's on
<popey> run cheese?
<JGJones> it was working - but now in cheese, the camera's greyed out
<popey> mine is greyed out too
<JGJones> and I've unplugged it and plugged it back in.
<popey> and it's in use by cheese
<JamesTait> JGJones: From a very hazy memory, "something" appears in /var/log/syslog when you plug in a firewire device, I can't remember what now.
<JamesTait> JGJones: If nothing appears there, you could try lsmod | grep 1394
<JGJones> JamesTait, aye I did a tail -f /var/log/syslog and then plugged in camera into firewire. Nothing comes up - I honestly think my firewire port is fracked
<JamesTait> JGJones: And if that shows that modules are loaded, then I agree the port is probably not working.
<JGJones> popey, cheese not running and doing the lsof |grep show nothing
<JGJones> so it's not /dev/video
<JamesTait> JGJones: Does it show up in lspci?
<popey> firewire webcam?
<JGJones> no...now it's a usb camera
<JGJones> logitech pro 4000
<JGJones> I used to use a camcorder as my "webcam" - better video quality than a webcam.
<JGJones> but since I can't use the firewire, I dug out the logitech as it's much better than the laptop webcam. Plugged it in and tested in cheese. it worked...
<JGJones> ah...I remember...started Google Talk and tested plugin for video...and after that it's frozen
<popey> heh
<JGJones> the logitech that is...
<popey> close browser?
<JGJones> killing chrome...
<JGJones> nope
<JGJones> doing a ps -A show I have lsusb running
<JGJones> shouldn't lsusb just display USB devices and then exit?
<popey> yes
<popey> golly, i have 10 usb devices attached!
<popey> oh, 8
<JGJones> hmm lsusb is "kill-proof"
<popey> two hubs
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/649516/
<hamitron> getting to the stage where the USB devices cost more than the rest of the comp :/
<JGJones> ok...system monitor tells me that lsusb is "uninterruptible"
<Daviey> (reading scrollback, the server installer now has install time support for squid-deb-proxy)
<JGJones> ok...how do I kill lsusb?
<JamesTait> Hi Daviey. :)
<hamitron> you can't kill it?
<hamitron> :|
<JGJones> nope
<JGJones> would really rather not use the Approved Microsoft Error Solving Method.
<hamitron> it won't even die with -9?
<JGJones> nope
<JGJones> even as root
<JGJones> status is "uninterruptible"
<hamitron> Approved MS way then
<hamitron> ;)
<JGJones> sigh
<JGJones> The horror...the horror...
<popey> BED!
<popey> nn all
<JGJones> oh wait
<JGJones> not you popey you can go ;-)
<JGJones> I have an excuse to reboot....
<JGJones> JamesTait, according to this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewire#Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid Lynx) and 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) that need to be done
<JGJones> so will do that and then reboot and also get to kill off lsusb at the same time...it's now no longer an Approved Microsoft Error Solving Method
<JGJones> ;)
<JamesTait> :D
<JamesTait> Hm, not sure why the reboot is required there, tbh.
<JGJones> hmm
<JGJones> that guide didn't help
<JGJones> firewire still not working
<JGJones> JamesTait, I did a modprobe raw1394 - Not Found is what I get.
<JamesTait> JGJones: Weird.
<JamesTait> JGJones: linux-image-2.6.35-30-generic: /lib/modules/2.6.35-30-generic/kernel/drivers/ieee1394/raw1394.ko
<JamesTait> Ah
<JGJones> hmm had a kernel panic
<JGJones> anyway JamesTait - any idea on how to get that blasted firewire working?
<JamesTait> JGJones: It's odd that the driver isn't found.
<JGJones> well I know that it was taken out of the kernel, that might be a reason...
<JGJones> however lspci does show I have firewire hardware
<JamesTait> JGJones: If I do dpkg -S /lib/modules/2.6.35-30-generic/kernel/drivers/ieee1394/raw1394.ko it tells me linux-image-2.6.35-30-generic: /lib/modules/2.6.35-30-generic/kernel/drivers/ieee1394/raw1394.ko
<JamesTait> JGJones: So it should be there in the generic kernel package.
<JGJones> right...
<JGJones> sigh
<JGJones> I can't figure out how my firewire port on laptop might break...I don't use it very much
<JGJones> but if I can't use firewire I dunno if it's cos it's broken or if my laptop isn't installing the drivers
<JGJones> JamesTait - if I use an external HDD with firewire - does it also use raw1394?
<Daviey> hey JamesTait
<JamesTait> JGJones: I don't know, to be honest.  My guess would be that it's device-specific.
<JGJones> (btw kernel panic is caused by the Logitech Quickcam Pro 4000)
<JamesTait> Daviey: You never call. Where have you been? Is there somebody else?
<Daviey> JamesTait: Yes. :)
<JamesTait> JGJones: Do you have files listed if you do ls /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/drivers/ieee1394 ?
<JamesTait> Daviey: I'm sad to hear this, but not surprised. Just tell me it's not DropBox.
<JGJones> hmm JamesTait - no ieee1394
<JamesTait> JGJones: I should have asked, which version of Ubuntu?
<JGJones> 2.6.38-11 (Ubuntu 11.04)
<JamesTait> JGJones: Does this help? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FireWire#Driver%20Confusion:%20FireWire%20stacks%20explained
<JamesTait> JGJones: I'm still on Maverick (I know, I know) so I can't test it myself.
<JGJones> heh...it worked pretty damn well on maverick
<JGJones_> sigh...
<JGJones_> those community document should list version number in addition to names
<JGJones_> I can't remember what number belong to which codename
<JamesTait> JGJones: Heh, yes, that can be a pain.
<JamesTait> JGJones: 10.04 is Lucid, 10.10 is Maverick, 11.04 is Natty.
<JGJones> ah...the legacy stack has been removed from natty which I just about remember is 11.04
<JGJones> thus no raw1394
<JamesTait> JGJones: So lsmod | grep firewire should produce some output, I guess.
<JGJones> it use the Juju stack...
<JGJones> still...eitherway, it doesn't bloody work
<JGJones> I'm still leaning toward a broken firewire port though to be honest rather than a software issue
<JGJones> as the laptop is a dell vostro 1500 - *everything* just works on ubuntu.
<JGJones> even use an intel wifi (open source drivers) etc.
<JGJones> and as mentioned...it's a Dell...so must be a broken port ;)
<JamesTait> JGJones: It does seem the most likely. :(
<JGJones> sigh oh well thanks for your help anyway. wonder if the firewire port can be replaced easily...
<JamesTait> JGJones: I imagine it's soldered onto the mainboard.
<JamesTait> JGJones: That's been a useful learning experience for me anyway. I didn't know about the JuJu stack.
<JamesTait> Yawn, time for bed.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-22
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2011 This Weekend! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/22/cls-this-weekend/
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> today will mostly involve lunch
<daubers> Morning
<popey> Yes!
 * daubers has been pondering whether or not to stay in farnham for oggcamp or just commute in from Reading both days
<daubers> pretty sure it'd be near cost neutral either way (excluding the excessive amount of drinks I may consume if I satyed in farnham)
<popey> stay stay stay
<daubers> I'll reconsider my options once I've been paid next week I think....
<daubers> If I don't stay, what I save on alcohol and food might go a long way to buying a kindle....
<popey> heh
<daubers> popey: Small typo on the oggcamp site
<daubers> http://oggcamp.org/venue "in Farnhma, Surrey"
<popey> fixed
<daubers> \o/
 * daubers needs to mug his bosses and put some storage together next week for oggcamp
<daubers> Other unit I built for it got sold :(
<daubers> and a light gatey arduino thing in case I have the sudden urge to do a talk
<AlanBell> daubers: stay at the unofficial campsite
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> time to head off to lunch I think
<bigcalm> o.O
<DJones> Thats an early lunch
<bigcalm> That's crazy man, crazy!
<BigRedS> if it's before ten it's breakfast
<bigcalm> Please don't make me think of McDonald's
 * DJones thinks of bacon, sausage, fried eggs, black pudding, fried bread, baked beans & HP sauce
<bigcalm> Ok, that you don't get at McDonald's :)
<bigcalm> Possibly Tesco or ASDA
<DJones> Yeah, it contains real meat :)
<bigcalm> Now I wish I lived far enough up north that cafes serve blackpudding
<bigcalm> It's a rareity in the West Midlands
<DJones> You'll have to have a day trip to Bolton on somewhere like that
<andrewebdev> right, so I think I found a bug in Ubuntu Natty, how can I get some kind of traceback of events so that I can log a ticket? basically, if I cut and paste from Libre Office Calc, into Vim (running in terminal) then my computer restarts.
<BigRedS> wow. that's a bit destructive.
<BigRedS> does it do an instant restart, as if you hit the reset button, or reboot with a relatively clean shutdown first?
<andrewebdev> BigRedS, basically it logs the user out and sits at the login screen
<andrewebdev> instantly
<BigRedS> oh, so not quite a restart
<andrewebdev> all programs closed, nothing saved
<andrewebdev> My laptop fan also starts revving up
<BigRedS> I've no idea what sort of logs to look at for a trace, probably best to file a bug and see what the people fixing it would like by way of info
<andrewebdev> k
<BigRedS> Does it happen when copying into anything other than vim? Or from anything other than LO into vim?
 * andylockran is ninja
<andylockran> HOWDY!
<andylockran> :p
<czajkowski> Aloha
<andylockran> czajkowski: how's tricks?
<czajkowski> ntb
<BigRedS> ninjas don't say howdy. that's cowboys
<BigRedS> I think you're an impostor
 * Mez thinks he shouldn't have taught andylockran about sm
<Mez> BigRedS: no, it's him.
<Mez> unfortunately.
<Mez> he think's he's ninja because I just fixed something.
<BigRedS> Oh
<BigRedS> ahhh, that sort of a ninja!
<Mez> (though, he admittedly helped a little)
<DJones> If Mez fixed it, wouldn't that make Mez the ninja & andylockran the damsel in distress?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> Ninjas are undetectable. You'll never know quite how much they helped
<DJones> s/damsel/person
<Mez> DJones: technically yes.  Lol.
<Mez> Hard disk raid was expanded > 3TB.  Therefore making the server fail to boot (and update-grub to fail)
<Mez> so I shrank it back down - then andy pointed me to a mini-howto, which wasn't good enough -then I restored the lvm from a backup, then we booted the kernel manually and reinstalled grub.
 * Mez has now sent andylockran off to do grunt work :)
<Mez> I like having a minion
<BigRedS> Ah yeah. I love that about grub. Rather than expending the effort to make it *good* and *do more*, it seems they just fancied making it horrific to configure. Sometimes I wonder what happened to Hurd...
<BigRedS> Mez: what's sm? Does it fix disgruntled grubs?
<Mez> BigRedS: Screen Message  will  display  a given multi-line message as large as possible, fullscreen and black on white
<BigRedS> oh
<Mez> he keeps sshing into our display monitors and making them show random messages
<BigRedS> that sounds more amusing than grub
 * BigRedS plots
<Mez> qlol
<andylockran> I considered sm'ing to my last place of work and freaking them out
<Mez> yeah, not a good idea.
<andylockran> serves them right for not changing my passwords - but think they may use it as an excuse to sue me because they weren't too happy with me leaving...
<BigRedS> didn't you just leave at and cron jobs lying around on your last day?
<BigRedS> amateur :)
<andylockran> I have a professional approach :)
<andylockran> (hence the sm messageS)
<BigRedS> it's not the approach we're talking about, it's the departure :)
<andylockran> even still - can always be employed as a consultant in the future ...
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I did a week of 'consulting' at my last place
<BigRedS> when they noticed they'd made me redundant and my last day was the day before the one of the two people left in the department went on holiday
<BigRedS> that was profitable :)
<DJones> Did you get "Consultants" rates?
<DJones> Rather than salary + a bit for the inconvinience
<BigRedS> sort-of. They rejigged the redundancy agreement so I got all my holiday pay (including what I'd already taken) and to keep my laptop and Â£(a few hundred)
<DJones> Can't really complain at that
<BigRedS> but I didn't invoice them for contracting, it was effectively as if I worked an extra week of my notice
<BigRedS> no, not at all! That monday was my first 9-to-5 day with company, it was lovely!
<DJones> Probably worked better doing that than having to invoice, get it approved, chase for payment, register for tax etc
<BigRedS> yeah, that was their plan
<BigRedS> it was the thursday before that week that HR noticed their cock-up
<BigRedS> well, it was on the thursday that I asked what they intended to do, which is when they noticed
<BigRedS> And I got to keep the box on which I'd scripted myself into redundancy. I still enjoy that bit of irony.
 * DJones notes that tracing documentation through our system, a couple booked a honeymoon and Mrs O Smith was marrying a Mr Krap so she'd become Mrs O Krap :)
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> i hope it was Miss O Smith
<DJones> Good spot
<BigRedS> What's the favourite tool for people with a low level of arsedness to use to concoct network diagrams? I've a bunch of small networks/clusters (4-8 hosts) to document and I'd like pretty pictures with handy labels and minimal mouse wiggling
<andylockran> BigRedS: add them to nagios and screenshot the nagios map :)
<popey> BigRedS: i get my mate bob-lad to do it for me
<popey> he has visio
<bigcalm> BigRedS: try something new? https://github.com/blog/621-bye-bye-flash-network-graph-is-now-canvas
<BigRedS> andylockran: that involves configuring nagios, that's a high level of arsedness :)
<oimon> BigRedS: seen that firefox plugin called pencil?
<popey> MooDoo: i tried to leave a comment on your blog but its broken
<BigRedS> oimon: nope.
 * BigRedS adds that to the list :)
<czajkowski> my blog got hacked :/
<oimon> BigRedS: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pencil/
<andylockran> czajkowski: by NewsCorp ?
<BigRedS> oimon: ooh.
<BigRedS> that looks generally handy
<czajkowski> andylockran: nothing that juicy on my site ever
<czajkowski> mostly spam links hiden on pages
<czajkowski> but none I could seee
<czajkowski> only some people could see them which was annoying as was hard to fix
<andylockran> that is a pain
<andylockran> I hate crackers
<andylockran> a client (charity) was hacked and I had to clean it up.. made a proper mess of the site.
<andylockran> but was a shame, as was a charity site with not much funding
<andylockran> but a good cause.
<andylockran> no ethics some people..
<oimon> i guess it's the equivalent of teenagers breaking into a youth centre and trashing it
<andylockran> yeah, biting the hand that feeds them
 * andylockran thinks that would make a good tag line for a paper/site
<MooDoo> popey, broken?   oh paulmellors.net?
<oimon> just realised in on firefox 5
<popey> MooDoo: yeah, it failed to let me authenticate openid
<MooDoo> oh i'll look at it
<MooDoo> popey, it's a google blog so not sure i can fix it...:S
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<andylockran> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: how was everything in the end yesterday dude?
<MooDoo> davmor2, just waiting for results mate
<diplo-> Any one use Virtual Box with CentOS 4 ?
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh that's even worse than waiting to get them done
<davmor2> morning andylockran
<oimon> high five's popey for being a generally helpful & top  bloke.
 * MooDoo thinks oimon is on drugs ;)
<MooDoo> popey nice and helpful....never :D
<MooDoo> lol
<oimon> wonder if those fossbox guys will be back in today. would be nice to give them a load of spare machines
<scoundrel50a> can somebody help, or at least point me in the right direction, I have Oneiric RC1 kernel installed, I want to uninstall it and install the latest kernel of 11.04 instead. How do I do that?
<scoundrel50a> At the momsnt, I cant install 11.04 fully, as the backlight problem is still not fixed. I just want the kernel to check every now and again, to see when the problem does get fixed
<davmor2> oimon: you can get hold of them via their site I would imagine
<oimon> yep, thats my plan b
<brobostigon> scoundrel50a: go into packages.ubuntu.com and find the version, then go into synaptic, and search for that version, then install it. and then simply switch back and forth in grub.
<scoundrel50a> how do you just install the kernel, not the whole thing
<brobostigon> scoundrel50a: yes, just tell synaptic to install the kernel, and it will do that.
<scoundrel50a> sorry, I dont know how to tell synaptic to do that, which is why i am asking.
<scoundrel50a> and how do I remove oneiric?
<brobostigon> scoundrel50a: simply tick the box next to the package, and hit apply.
<BigRedS> 'removing' oneiric's a bit different/ what exactly do you want to do? downgrade?
<ali1234> "question makes no sense please restate"
<scoundrel50a> no, just remove the kernel,
<BigRedS> The kernel isn't oneiric
<scoundrel50a> The kernel is Oneiric, RC1
<BigRedS> no
<brobostigon> scoundrel50a: in that case, untick the package in synaptic, ie, the option to uninstall, and hit apply.
<scoundrel50a> ok, so what is it then?
<BigRedS> 'Oneiric' is Ubuntu 11.10
<BigRedS> the kernel is 2.6.something or (in Oneiric) 2.3
<scoundrel50a> yes, that is what I have install;ed
<scoundrel50a> but only the kernel
<scoundrel50a> ye4s
<BigRedS> yeah, 'only the kernel' is not the same as 'oneiric', hence our confusion
<BigRedS> anyway, what you want to do is install an older kernel, then boot into it and make sure it works, then remove the enw one
<BigRedS> so install that linux-image package, reboot and select it from the grub menu
<scoundrel50a> yeh, but I made that clear in my first message
<BigRedS> er, right. So why did you start saying something else?
<BigRedS> anyway
<BigRedS> once booted, if you're happy with it, just remove the 3.0 kernel package and that'll be gone and the then-highest version will be default
<BigRedS> you *can* remove the package now if you like, but if on reboot it all goes wrong you'd be in a bit of a pickle :)
<ali1234> why even bother?
<ali1234> just carry on using 3
<scoundrel50a> BigRedS: well, basically, I want to clean up
<ali1234> it won't make any difference
<scoundrel50a> I cant nuse 3, because of the backlight problem, that is why i am removing it
<ali1234> i thought you said you can't use 11.04 because of the backlight problem? which is it?
<scoundrel50a> the same as oneiric, it hasnt been fixed
<scoundrel50a> ok, start from beginning
<ali1234> so you can't use 11.04 or oneiric?
<ali1234> so you can't actually use anything?
<scoundrel50a> back a couple of months ago,
<ali1234> it doesn't work at all?
<scoundrel50a> no
<scoundrel50a> no
<ali1234> I AM CONFUSED
<scoundrel50a> so am I now
<scoundrel50a> all I wanted to ask, was how to remove oneiric, then install 11.04 kernel, that was all
<ali1234> if you remove oneiric (assuming you actually have it installed) and then install 11.04 kernel, all you will have left is a kernel
<scoundrel50a> and I am still none the wiser
<ali1234> which will not be very much use to you
<ali1234> hence, question does not make sense, please restate
<BigRedS> The only way to remove oneiric is to hose the partition it's on, really. But then after that you'll want to install a whole OS, not just a kernel
<ali1234> but in the spirit of not helping, i will answer your question anyway
<ali1234> to remove oneiric, simply format the partition containing it
<scoundrel50a> ok, the oneiric kernel is not connected to anything, its seperate to my 10.10 installation, it just shows in the grub,
<BigRedS> unless you're persisting in referring to the kernel as 'oneirc' as part of some dastardly plan to keep us confused
<ali1234> then, to install the 11.04 kernel, just unpack it using ar, and copy it to /boot
<ali1234> of course, you will not be able to boot, because you deleted your OS in step 1
<scoundrel50a> but it is, its oneiric 3.0.0-0300rc1
<BigRedS> no
<BigRedS> it's *linux* 3.0.0-0300rci
<BigRedS> which Oneiric happens to be using
<brobostigon> why not just gets nattys kernel version, from packages.ubuntu.com, and then instruct synaptic, to install that, if it is in oneirics repos, or just gets the deb's from packages.ubuntu.com, and install with dpkg?
<scoundrel50a> ok, now that is three different people telling me three different things
<ali1234> no, we are all telling you the same thing
<scoundrel50a> aqnd you wonder why I am confused
<ali1234> you're just not listening
<BigRedS> well, you're one person telling us at least two different things...
<scoundrel50a> no, before I came on ehre today two other people told me somethign different now your teeling me somethign different again
<scoundrel50a> and you wonder why i am confused?
<ali1234> well those two people obviously didn't have a clue and told you a bunch of rubbish :)
<BigRedS> :(
<scoundrel50a> one of the was a somebody from ubuntu-x
<BigRedS> Oh, before on here. That's fine
<scoundrel50a> and another one was somebody from here
<BigRedS> What did they tell you? And did you ask them how to remove Oneiric, or how to replace Linux 3.0 with Linux 2.6.*?
<ali1234> ok let me see if i have got this straight
<BigRedS> because you're flitting between both here, and they're utterly different processes
<ali1234> you have 10.10 installed
<ali1234> you can't upgrade to 11.04 because the kernel backlight bug
<scoundrel50a> yes
<brobostigon> which of those?
<ali1234> you wanted to check if oneiric the bug was fixed, so you installed the kernel from oneiric onto your 10.10 install
<popey> that is correct ali1234
<popey> (from my memory)
<ali1234> so now you want to ... ?
<popey> (remove the linux 3.0 kernel)
<popey> i.e. go back to vanilla 10.10
<popey> (my understanding from scrollback)
<ali1234> so that should be easy enough. just do what brob said right at the start
<scoundrel50a> no
<scoundrel50a> I dont know, you have lost me completely now
<ali1234> ok what result are you looking for?
<scoundrel50a> I am usinig 10-.10 on same computer now
<ali1234> "make computer work again" how is that?
<ali1234> or are you still looking for a fix to use 11.04 or 11.10?
<scoundrel50a> I want to remove the rc1 kernel
<davmor2> Ah the specials - Ghost town what a track :)
<ali1234> ok so just load up synaptic, search for "linux-image" and then remove it
<scoundrel50a> ok, and will that break my 10.10
<ali1234> make sure you have at least one version of "linux-image" installed though
<ali1234> it will break if you don't have at least one version of it installed
<scoundrel50a> I have up to date version of 10.10 installed
<ali1234> so you know how to use grub to select kernel version?
<scoundrel50a> yes, which is how I am using 10.10 to post on here
<ali1234> good. so you have all the kernel versions installed
<ali1234> so just use synaptic to search linux-image and remove the ones you don't want
<ali1234> only remove the ones with a number after the name
<scoundrel50a> ok, I found the image in synaptic, and its just on its own, nothing with it, so I removing it now,
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> that sounds bad
<ali1234> make a screenshot of what you found
<ali1234> it sounds to me like you're doing it wrong
<scoundrel50a> too late, the image has been removed
<scoundrel50a> ok, that didint cause any problems with this installation of 10.10. How can I install the image of 11.04 without it affecting my installation, the same way as the rc1 image was installed. I need to be able to check 11.04 to see of there are any changes.
<oimon> yesterday i was looking over someones shoulder on the train and they had course material for city & guilds diploma in IT support . on the page was a large picture of a floppy disk, showing write protect tab and other such features. the text began "nowadays many pcs come preinstalled with a floppy disk drive..."...how old is this stuff?
<ali1234> scoundrel50a: i highly doubt it wil get fixed in 11.04
<ali1234> anyway you just download the deb file and double click on it
<scoundrel50a> where do I find it?
<scoundrel50a> ok, does anybody know where the .deb files are found for 11.04?
<brobostigon> scoundrel50a: packages.ubuntu.com
<scoundrel50a> ok, thanks
<popey> I think scoundrel50a isnt going to get anywhere just installing linux kernels from higher releases
<brobostigon> i agree, we need to work out what is causing the issue. rather than just wildly messing with kernel's
<ali1234> you need to perform a git bisect and find the commit the breaks the backlight
<ali1234> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel/GitBisect
<gord> so... cron has stopped working for me today on my server, how do you debug cron/cronjobs?
<andylockran> /etc/init.d/cron status?
<andylockran> gord: virtual machine or physical?
<gord> andylockran, physical
<gord> andylockran, cron is running
<andylockran> but it's just failed to execute when it should have?
<andylockran> I'd set a cron for 2 minutes time and see what happends
<gord> yup, i have imap filter run on my imap mailbox every 5 minutes, doesn't get called
<gord> maybe i should just restart the machine like its been bugging me to do for about two months
<andylockran> might be something lowlevel that would be difficult to sort
<andylockran> turn it off and on again :)
<gord> awww maaan, i hate doing that. ubuntu will find some reason to say "hey, i know i haven't started openssh yet but press a certain button!"
<gord> i tried to do "sudo apt-get shutdown -r now" . its not my day today
<andylockran> brainfarts suck
<gord> heey it restarted fine
<popey> gord: you know there was a dodgy patch that hit lucid and killed cron jobs?
<popey> about 2 months ago
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<Daviey> yeah, there wasa USN about it
<gord> popey, yeah i got hit by that, which is why i mentioned it here in case it was happening again :)
<popey> ahhh
<popey> #blamedaviey
<Daviey> hah, not me gv'nor
<popey> yeah, you say that when the boss is in the room ;)
<Daviey> The nicer one, was installing gnome on servers due to a langpack mistake
<popey> ooo thats fun
<popey> "Here, have a free GUI!"
<Daviey> yeah, automated updates++
<popey> So it's now 2 weeks since I installed Ubuntu 11.04 on a Samsung netbook for an 8 year old girl..
<popey> the only feedback I have had is "It's working fine"
<popey> I am starting to panic that its broken and they feel bad about it and dont want to bug me
<daubers> heh
<czajkowski> why panic you do a good install
<popey> so kind
<czajkowski> popey: you tested it ?
<popey> no feedback from my own kids either!
<czajkowski> put on the applications they'd use
<popey> me: "have you used the computer today?"
<popey> sophie: "yeah"
<popey> me: "and?"
<czajkowski> I'm sure it's perfect
<popey> sophie: "and what?"
<Daviey> testing?!
<popey> me: "any problems"
<popey> sophie: "No."
<czajkowski> popey: yeah but you're kids do kinda rock :) are they coming on Sunday
 * popey worries too much
<popey> thanks
<czajkowski> popey: see pm for a laugh so
<popey> Sam is, Sophie is in a ballet festival
<czajkowski> ahhh cool :)
<popey> I expect Sam will spend most of the day on my shoulders
<czajkowski> heheh
<popey> getting bored in the museum
<Daviey> Ooo, gonna skip oggcamp and head to the ballet festival methinks.
<davmor2> popey: their 8 year olds they know more about computer than you think you do ;)
<popey> I installed WINE on the laptop and called up a company that makes educational software for windows
<popey> me: "will it work on linux using wine"
<popey> him: "uhhhh"
<popey> me: "Look, is your software mostly based on flash?"
<popey> him: "Yeah, 100% flash"
<popey> turns out it work in WINE just perfectly
<oracology> popey: Awesome. You're being a gnusiance. I do that often to these proprietary vendors.
<popey> http://www.nessy.com/
<popey> tis fun software too
<popey> I had a play :D
<oracology> popey: to really piss him off next time, say GNU/Linux instead of just "linux"
<popey> I never say GNU/Linux
<popey> ever
<bigcalm> You just did
<MartijnVdS> oracology: it's less GNU than other people.
<MartijnVdS> oracology: so if you insist on mentioning GNU, insist on mentioning those others as well
<oracology> MartijnVdS: oh fair enough. it's just for being an annoyance.
<popey> I wasnt intending to be an annoyance
<oracology> ahhh nevermind then. :)
<popey> What would good is if the company made a little note on their website to say "Works in Linux under WINE"
<popey> in fact I'll call them up and tell them it works
<Daviey> I'd love it if he responded... "Well, running it again just linux won't exactly work, as you need the userspace to allow execution."
<popey> even printing works fine
<popey> heh
<Daviey> s/again/against/
<davmor2> gnu/redhat/novell/microsoft/apple/canonical/random people/linux doesn't have the same ring though right?
<popey> he actually asked me to get back in contact because they may get other customers asking
<brobostigon> good idea popey :)
<oracology> I hadn't intended on starting a semantics war people! sorry!! :(
<popey> hah
<popey> oracology: hippy :D
 * jussi hides from davmor2
<oracology> popey: that is a great idea. let them get something out of this too.
<oracology> popey: also, maybe submit it to wineHQ?
<popey> good idea!
<gord> do flash produce linux binaries too? for the stand alone stuff, i mean that machinarium game was 100% flash i think
<czajkowski> gord: are you coming to oggcamp or is ther a sprint on
<oracology> popey: well, my issue with these people is that they're paid to answer phones and can never deal past the most basic questions. fair enough i guess, but if someone comes along with some legitimate knowledge, it should get crammed into their brains.
<oracology> davmor2: hey i'm just taking it from stallman. he got really pissed one time and lectured everyone on why it's GNU/Linux. just trying to satisfy as many people as possible. that said, it probably does need a name to capture all the other entities who helped in its creation.
<davmor2> oracology: That's easy The Peoples Linux that credits everyone then :)
<oracology> davmor2: that has an awesome ring to it :)
<gord> czajkowski, no plans to right now, maybe will feel more like it closer to the date if work is less hectic, its the weekend after feature freeze
<oracology> it's actually an interesting point i guess, that GNU/Linux actually does miss the point just as much as "Linux" does. i hadn't realized that it is actually less GNU than other stuff, MartijnVdS, davmor2.
<oracology> but enough of that. i'll go mull that over and learn something out of it :)
<popey> this is why I say "Ubuntu" :D
<davmor2> jussi: why run and hide from me, czajkowski I can understand ;)
<jussi> davmor2: hehe, yes, but you are both scary peoples...
 * jussi hides behind popey
<oracology> popey: you're probably right, that is the closest we'll get...given that if it works on Ubuntu, you could probably make it work on Fedora, for instance.
<davmor2> jussi: don't think that will protect you popey see us coming after you he'll soon move :D
<oracology> what is up with jussi hiding from people, may I ask? :)
<jussi> davmor2: see, popey is scared of you also?
<jussi> :P
<davmor2> jussi: hahaha
<jussi> oracology: nothing, just friday afternoon stupidness and a reason to give out to davmor2 (like I need one)
<oracology> jussi: hahaha, understood. i'm staying in today myself to read some stuff for monday...friday afternoon stupidness well on its way here too!
<davmor2> jussi: czajkowski is head of the ubuntu Mafioso she is the DON! it's not surprising that popey would give you up, she appears everywhere well kinda like popey, maybe their in it together :D
<popey> O_O
 * oracology pours out some Pimms and lemonade to watch the fun.
 * oracology is glad it's sunny and warm right now.
<davmor2> Yay! Friday fun
<oracology> that's what "ff" should stand for on those twitter/statusnet things.
<MartijnVdS> oracology: I just assume they forgot the "s" in "ffs"
<oracology> MartijnVdS: well said. :)
<davmor2> So popey back to the 8 year olds,  you've installed Ubuntu, and heard nothing back and you think that is a bad thing, why?  The only things I could think of were that everything was fine they'll soon let you know if it isn't trust me
<czajkowski> davmor2: I'm a lady and take part in no such things
<popey> davmor2: some people don't like to bother their support person, especially when they got the support for free
<popey> wifey will be seeing her tonight anyway, will ask her to check all is okay
<daubers> popey: Pop round for a cuppa, take cake :) That always makes people talk
<popey> hah
 * daubers never understood why the gestapo didn't just bring tea and cake
<davmor2> popey: I found the opposite they can't do something they are soon back around you put it on you sort it out :)
 * popey goes into "town" for "lunch"
<davmor2> czajkowski: See only the true DON would deny it, you must be the DON!
<davmor2> using monty pythons life of brian as an example of the fact
<davmor2> She not the DON! she's a very naughty girl! :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, did czajkowski say lady then?
<gord> s/town/pub s/lunch/?????
<MooDoo> davmor2, put her in the iron maiden.....er #naughtystep
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but we know that can't be right she swears in Irish too much to get away with that one
<gord> "launchpad_net: Available in the next two hours to take part in a 25 minute phone call to help us test Launchpad? There's an Amazon voucher in it for you :)"
<gord> if anyone has some free time ^^
<MooDoo> Dave2, feck....:)
<MooDoo> oops
<oracology> gord: ah bollocks. not free :( tempting though!
<MooDoo> davmor2, :)  i should use tab less
<MooDoo> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<MooDoo> :)
<jussi> gord: I can!
<jussi> gord: where and how?
 * BigRedS just earned 400g of dairy milk :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: .. wut?
<BigRedS> Someone I share an office with keeps getting annoyed at me being messy. I've had a 'scorecard' and when I've been tidy for ten days I get chocolate :)
<DJones> BigRedS: I thought you'd just done exercise for long enough to be able to eat 400g of dairy milk with it affecting weigth/calorie intake
<BigRedS> excercise? Pfffft
<DJones> my thoughts exactly
<MartijnVdS> DJones: he's BIGcalm, niet SMALLcalm :)
<BigRedS> I'm not calm at all! :)
<DJones> I thought he was Red
<BigRedS> I've never seen anyone get us that explicitly confused :)
<gord> jussi, #launchpad i guess
<gord> jussi, i got that from the launchpad_net twitter
<jussi> gord: yeah... I figured it out after I asked...
<jussi> replied to their twitter also.
<davmor2> MooDoo: no use tab just look at the result before hitting send :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, ssssh
<davmor2> MooDoo: NO! :P
<MooDoo> :p
<oracology> MooDoo: what's "ssssh", "super secret secure shell"? ;)
<MooDoo> oracology, that would be cool, but in this case it wase sssssshutup davmor2 you darn fool :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who follows :P
<MooDoo> davmor2, darn you and your forward thinking
<davmor2> MooDoo: Reverse thinking actually all the way back to 1977 infact ;)
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> davmor2, i've forgotten more than you'll ever know :)
<MooDoo> so what's this ubuntu all about then?
<davmor2> MooDoo: table tennis?
<MooDoo> over the years i've come to regard davmor2 as someone i met :D
<MooDoo> pah even though i haven't yet lol
<oimon> is that from red dwarf?
<MooDoo> yes i do believe so
<oimon> the holo ship episode
<popey> oimon: updated your planet feed
<oimon> popey: thanks popey ..u mean my change 10 mins ago ? realised that wordpress was being naughty and i had to use atom instead :-\
<davmor2> I used to love the way Kryton would enter lie mode out loud, "LIe mode! Of course we won't die it's perfectly safe no worries!"
<oimon> aren't you supposed to be shopping in town?
<popey> yes, thats the change I made oimon
<popey> I have returned
<oimon> you are on the ball today :D
<popey> went nuts in pret
<oimon> my wife says that toddler needs to get out of the house each day or he goes a bit nutty, unfortunately, rather than wlaking in the fields looking at nature, she goes shopping :(
<oimon> i think thats why babies are so expensive
<MooDoo> lol tell me about it, i've a new one on the way :)
<davmor2> popey: what you mean you shook your hips, and said thank ya very much as you paid for your order?
<davmor2> oimon: if it's a girl wait till she hits 13 yuo think she is expensive now :)
 * MooDoo thinks please let my new one be a boy please let my new one be a boy please let my new one be a boy 
<oimon> at this point i'm sort of hoping my next child is another boy so that we don't have to buy dollies and dresses
<popey> Hah!
<popey> I am glad I have one of each.
<MooDoo> i'll get what i'm given, not long to find out
<popey> When's it due?
<MooDoo> 1st sept
<popey> heh
<oimon> i'm not even pregnant atm and i'm worrying about it
<popey> One of mine is at Legoland with a friend of our family.
<davmor2> ah a tune that conjures up the image of terri hatcher travelling down the stage on a big fan god bless tango and cash and yazoo don't go :)
<popey> He's 4, and he has a massive crush on a 14 year old girl
<oimon> on justin bieber?
<Azelphur> Is there any way to tell screen to exit, killing the process inside it?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: <escape> k
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so Ctrl+A k
<Azelphur> nah I need to do it from a bash script
<popey> you can :D
<Azelphur> how?
<popey> you can "stuff" commands into screen
<MartijnVdS> also, kill -9 :)
<Azelphur> I know about stuff, but I didn't think that would apply to sending screen ctrl commands?
<Azelphur> I'd also prefer not to parse the output of screen -r to get the pid to kill -9 it
<Azelphur> that's a bet long winded, I'd just prefer to tell screen to sort it out by screen name
<popey> you can send the control codes
<popey> like escape
<Azelphur> ah, cool
<popey> screen -p 0 -S screenname -X eval 'stuff \015'
<popey> that will send CTRL+M
<popey> enter, basically
<MartijnVdS> (M being the 15th letter of the alphabet)
<Azelphur> ah, was wondering where the 15 came from
<popey> uh
<popey> no
<popey> its 015 octal which is 13 decimal
<MartijnVdS> the 015th letter
<MartijnVdS> *
<MartijnVdS> *phew* nice save
<Azelphur> btw, been trying out lovefilms paid service, it doesn't even come anywhere near the quality or selection of torrents, and they want Â£30 a month for it :/
<Azelphur> unimpressed \o/
<MartijnVdS> what did you expect? :)
<Azelphur> Ideally all the latest stuff available for 720p or higher streaming, at the very least keeping up with dvd release dates, but ideally having stuff on there as soon as or before it comes out in the cinema
<BigRedS> before it comes out in the cinema?
<BigRedS> that makes no sense
<Azelphur> sure it does, I'm paying more than the Cinema goers
<Azelphur> I should get to see it first if anyone is going to see it first.
<BigRedS> you're only paying more than the cinema goers if you don't watch very much
<Azelphur> *shrug* I'd like to see a person who spends more than Â£30 a month at the cinema, there really arn't going to be that many
<BigRedS> or below some threshold, I've no idea how much that works out as
<Azelphur> your talking top few percent for that kind of cash input
<BigRedS> but still, teh cinema is always going to be where a film makes its debut
<BigRedS> well, if it can get into any
<daubers> "UUPC: The Movie Coming soon to a cinema near you!"
<Azelphur> yay, pidgin excess flood bug is fun \o/
<gord> Azelphur, erm, lovefilm don't even have a Â£30/month package, unlimited is Â£20
<Azelphur> gord: oops, remembered the price wrong then :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: tell that to the admin of his proxy ;)
<gord> cheepest for unlimited streaming is Â£10 - i find that very reasonable personall
<MartijnVdS> \o/ MitM
<gord> i like that i can just sit down in the evening, watch some movie
<Azelphur> I can do that anyway without lovefilm XD
<Azelphur> only with a much much larger selection of all the latest stuff
<gord> i choose not to pirate stuff thanks
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<shauno> hrm.  they still don't allow streaming packages to ireland.  mail almost made sense.  artificial borders suck.
 * popey enjoys Virgin Media video on demand
<gord> yeah they don't really do outside the UK
<Azelphur> for Â£10/mo you can get a really nice usenet sub easily and stream all the latest stuff usually in 720p whenever you want and it's always keeping up with dvd releases if not even earlier than that >.<
 * bigcalm does not enjoy Virgin Media's video on PC/mobile
<gord> but their mail stuff is good if you like blu-rays like me, blu-rays are sooo expensive and some films i only want to watch once
<Azelphur> I'd expect LoveFilm to do better than what already exists lol
 * popey suggests Azelphur takes his piracy stuff elsewhere
<Azelphur> *shrug* was just trying to point out that it wasn't very impressive
<BigRedS> you need to use words like 'could' and 'hypothetically' :)
<Azelphur> I do indeed
<Azelphur> I'm just trying to say that a big company with loads of resources should be able to do better than a bunch of people with no resources and constantly on the run from the MAFIAA :p
<BigRedS> Because LoveFilm don't need to appease the *IAA?
<gord> you realise its not just lovefilm right? they have to deal with movie companies
<Azelphur> yea I know it's not lovefilms fault, more the movie companies
<shauno> nothing's really impressive if you set theft as your baseline.  Â£500 porsche? cheaper to steal 'em
<shauno> (mandatory "you wouldn't download a car!")
<BigRedS> It's not like LoveFilm torrent the films and then offer them for streaming; they have to pay whoever for the right to let people stream them
<MartijnVdS> you wouldn't download a car!
<Azelphur> shauno: http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed xD
<BigRedS> Azelphur: point. missed.
<BigRedS> I wondered whether you'd jump for that, though
<Azelphur> yea, I get that they have to do deals, it just seems like they are all too busy fighting with eachother to make a decent service though
<BigRedS> The point was that if you start from the presumption that you can do something fro free, it's never going to look attractive to buy it instead.
<Azelphur> sure it is, if LoveFilm had feature parity with even torrents, I'd pay for it
<shauno> it's a different argument, but piracy is theft. closer to theft of service than physical stealing, but claiming otherwise is a weak justification, not a valid argument
<BigRedS> No it isn't. It completely, unequivocally, is not theft.
<BigRedS> It might share effects, but that doesn't render it the same
<Azelphur> According to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, theft means The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same
<Azelphur> theft, it is not.
<shauno> because nothing's actually removed from the original holder?
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services
<BigRedS> but it's not a service either
<shauno> which is why I say "much closer to"
<BigRedS> theft of services still involves a loss (of time)
<Azelphur> indeed
<shauno> services doesn't need to mean time
<BigRedS> copying soemthing doesn't. It's a breach of copyright - the only loss is because of some invented abstraction
<Azelphur> ^
<shauno> eg, ilegitmate cable/satellite access will stand in court as theft of service, while absolutely nothing was removed from anyone
<Azelphur> the vast majority of piracy now days is done by people who couldn't actually pay for what they want to watch even if they want to, anyway.
<BigRedS> shauno: extra capacity was used
<Azelphur> and in fact, surveys done by the media companies themselves prove that pirates actually pour more money into the industry than any other demographic
<shauno> I stole valuable radio waves, depriving my neighbour of the waves they paid for?
<oimon> cineworld have an unlimited pass that lets you go for Â£15 pm
<BigRedS> shauno: ok, satellite's hard to argue there
<bigcalm> Considering that it cost 11 quid to go and see HP, 15 quid a month isn't that bad
<shauno> cable's the same.  it's just RF down a different medium
<oimon> bigcalm: maybe it's only 2D though
<bigcalm> Ah
<Azelphur> oimon: do they stream?
<BigRedS> mm, I suppose anything that's purely reception is
<oimon> my missis wanted to see the 2D HP but it wasnt' advertised?
<bigcalm> I did feel a little robbed when the lass said the total was Â£22
<Azelphur> or do I have to go to the archaic building from the days when we could only afford one TV per town
<oimon> Azelphur: they stream onto the screen. you go to the cinema and watch it :)
<Azelphur> yay \o/
<oimon> popcorn and a drink costs Â£7.50
<Azelphur> lmao
<bigcalm> It were all fields around here when I were a lad
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: did they go uphill both ways?
<oimon> what happens is the people with the unlimited cards come along and then spend another Â£15 per visit on munchies
<shauno> BigRedS, that's pretty much the trap I fall into with 'not theft' then.  torrenting is essentially "purely reception".  no-one's deprived of anything.  you just .. magically acquire
<BigRedS> shauno: well, it's broadly similar to torrenting in most respects; I'd find it hard to argue that it's a theft of service rather than infringement of copyright, but IANAL. The loss is the loss of a potential [customer|purchase] rather than the loss of somethign already held
<Azelphur> *shrug* it's very weak logic to try and portray piracy as stealing or immoral though
<BigRedS> It's easy to portray it as immoral
<Azelphur> as I say, pirates spend far more (I believe it's about 5 times as much) on media than other groups
<BigRedS> it's not that hard to portray it as stealing, either
<bigcalm> I'm not sure this is the best place to be discussing piracy
<Azelphur> spending 5 times as much as everyone else, now immoral and stealing :D
<ali1234> it's not hard to portray anything as anything
<ali1234> all yuo need is some crayons
<BigRedS> Azelphur: you're doing exactly what the media industry did, but the other way. They only listen to 'piracy is bad' reports, and you only listen to 'piracy is good' reports
<Azelphur> ali1234: good point xD
<Azelphur> BigRedS: that's because there arn't any piracy is bad reports that actually make sense
<Azelphur> because at large piracy is a good thing
<Azelphur> it's like the biggest advertising network on the planet, the media companies try and fight it and loose, certain little people realize it's potential and get rich quick
<gord> this entire conversation has fallen into a deep despairing pit of dumb, alas there is no return, watch out for grue's
<oimon> let's draw a line under it
<oimon> ==========================================
<ali1234> piracy cured my chronic rhinitis
<BigRedS> that's two lines!
<gord> so, cats are pretty cool, you guys seen those?
<BigRedS> cats are awesome
<BigRedS> uneccesary cats less so
<Azelphur> call me dumb all you want, I'm right :P http://torrentfreak.com/best-selling-author-turns-piracy-into-profit-080512/
<Azelphur> one example :)
<gord> Azelphur, we are talking about cats now
<ali1234> speaking of "pit of dumb"
<popey> unity?
<shauno> my main problem with defending piracy, is that there's a *lot* about our wild wild webs that legitimately requires defending.  the public domain is getting eaten away by ever-expanding copyright terms
<ali1234> i just witnessed a website that lets you log in as anyone you like as long as you know their username. all you have to do is put it in a cookie and you are them
<popey> nice
<BigRedS> haha
<popey> is it abbey.com ?
<BigRedS> that sounds like 1997
<BigRedS> oh man
<BigRedS> the abbey national have really irritated me with their latest 'security' bits
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<davmor2> oimon: technically that was two lines you fail man!
<BigRedS> They're effectively shifting half the point of SSL over to the responsibility of the user
<Azelphur> ali1234: yesterday I found a website that sends all details about a transaction in postdata (amount, etc)
<davmor2> meh BigRedS beat me to it as I continue to read
<oimon> === signs are quicker to type than ------------
<oimon> ________________________________________________________________
<oimon> thats better, now , lovely weather lately
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed, that stuff needs to be protected more now than ever, I'm starting to see movies coming to torrents (legally) first, which is awesome :D
<Azelphur> the yes men was a pretty cool movie, for example
<BigRedS> argh! so many lines!
<BigRedS> anyway, in summary, I like cats but not the abbey national.
<oimon> today has been asolutely mental
<oimon> i have to shutdown all servers and desktops in the building
<oimon> but 3 of my staff are off
<Azelphur> BigRedS: abbey national tried to steal my money once :(
<Azelphur> "I'd like to deposit some money" "Sure no problem", "I'd like to withdraw the money I deposited" "Wait who are you and what have you done with Azelphur /lockdown account for 6 months"
<Azelphur> \o/
<BigRedS> hah
<davmor2> the conversation is moot as the abbey is no more it's now santander
<oimon> i have an old N&P account that became something else then becamse abbey, now satander
<Azelphur> davmor2: abbey was always santander I think? wasn't abbey just the UK brand name for them?
<diplo-> Anyone know where to get free to use icons ? Need PDF/CSV/Print or a base to use for said images..
<oimon> nope, satander bought thm
<BigRedS> only for the last year or so
<Azelphur> yea, satander bought my bank too :(
<Azelphur> satander buying everything.
<oimon> sold out to satan
<Azelphur> indeed
<davmor2> santander bought most of the banks to be honest including the a&l an b&b and a couple of others which include that postoffice banking services
<Azelphur> yea, I was with A&L
<davmor2> which means almost all bank transaction payments are handled by them (ie payment slips on the bottom of bills, paypoints, payzones etc)
<oimon> my wife wants me to change from halifax because of the adverts
<BigRedS> I'm trying to find a genuinely all-online bank
<Azelphur> she doesn't like the musical halifax adverts?
<BigRedS> but there don't appear to be any
<Azelphur> BigRedS: I'm looking at smile.co.uk, does that fit the bill?
<BigRedS> Azelphur: I emailed them asking if card replacement was able to be done online or over the phone and they emailed back with a number for me to call and ask...
<Azelphur> rofl
<BigRedS> I emailed them again and they said no. But that does appear to be the one service of theirs that requires a phone.
<BigRedS> only problem is that every time I've lost a card in teh last 10 years or so I've been abroad, and I don't want to phone them, I want to click a button in the web UI.
<BigRedS> I still don't understand why they insist on only doing it over the phone
<davmor2> BigRedS: ing and first direct are about as close as you are likely to get
<Azelphur> BigRedS: it's even more funny that they insist on doing it over the phone because it's abused by nefarious people
<Azelphur> if it was behind a web panel with a sane user/pass, it'd be infinitely more secure
<BigRedS> davmor2: aha! cheers! Are ING only savings, or are they a normal bank, too?
<BigRedS> Azelphur: yeah, I did eventually get Abbey to say "sorry, yes, the security bit was a lie. It's just that our system can't do it"
<davmor2> bigcalm: both as I understand it
<Azelphur> lol
<BigRedS> haha :)
<BigRedS> I should really tell irrssi to highligh bigcalm's messages too :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: ?
<bigcalm> Gah
<BigRedS> but cheers! I'll investigate them this weekend
<gord> pretty sure BigRedS and bigcalm are the same person. like DJones  and JGJones_
<bigcalm> o.O
<davmor2> bigcalm: sorry doing my best to make MooDoo feel like he isn't the only one not capable of reading a name after hitting tab :)
<BigRedS> I'm a bit sure we're not. But I've never seen bigcalm and me in the same room at the same time
<bigcalm> Heh, no worries :)
<MooDoo> davmor2, don't worry we all know your name is bill :)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: did you go to oggcamp last year?
<Azelphur> BigRedS: lemme know if you decide to go with anything :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: what's that fred
<MooDoo> :)
<bigcalm> SQL question: 2 tables, Bookings and Users. Bookings.user_id points to Users.id. How might I select Bookings records that have deleted Users records?
<BigRedS> bigcalm: nope
<voidspace> I have the following in /var/log/boot.log
<voidspace>  * Starting automatic crash report generation                                  [fail]
<bigcalm> Nope?
<BigRedS> I didn't go to oggcamp last year
<bigcalm> Ah
<voidspace> where should I look for more info on what failed and why?
<bigcalm> Then we could be the same person
<BigRedS> aha! Are you going this year?
<BigRedS> voidspace: around that line in boot.log might be clues... pastebin the file (or a snippet) and we can have a look
<voidspace> BigRedS: ah.. maybe this? init: ureadahead-other main process (410) terminated with status 4
<bigcalm> BigRedS: from Friday to Monday. Taking time off work so we can relax
<voidspace> BigRedS: I can pastebin the whole file
<BigRedS> bigcalm: Ah, we'll have to diverge on the saturday, then, and become two people
<voidspace> BigRedS: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/444286/
<bigcalm> How will the tab-fail people cope? :P
<BigRedS> voidspace: ah, probably. I'm not sure where to go for detals as to what ureadahead-other was doing at the time, though
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> voidspace: allegedly exiting with status 4 might not be a bad thing
<voidspace> BigRedS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ureadahead/+bug/484677
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 484677 in ureadahead "init: ureadahead-other main process terminated with status 4 (dup-of: 522197)" [Undecided,New]
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 522197 in upstart (Ubuntu) "init: shouldn't log a warning/error when a job fails with a status in "normal exit"" [Undecided,Triaged]
<bigcalm> Aha, I love answering my own SQL questions: SELECT * FROM bookings LEFT JOIN users ON bookings.user_id = users.id WHERE is_active IS NULL;
<BigRedS> bigcalm: well, it's more productive than answering other people's...
<BigRedS> voidspace: yeah, that's probably not a problem, then
<voidspace> hmmm
<voidspace> googling
<Apacheuk> bigcalm: select * from bookings b where not exists (select 1 from users u where u.user_id = b.user_id)
<voidspace> I assumed you guys would know *everything*
<BigRedS> voidspace: does it carry on to boot eventually?
<BigRedS> voidspace: most people here know more than I do
<voidspace> BigRedS: it boots fine
<BigRedS> voidspace: but because of that they spend a lot of the day doing real work :)
<voidspace> BigRedS: I just don't like to see a fail on boot
<davmor2> voidspace: have you tried in /var/crash ?
<BigRedS> odd that it appears to feel the need to create a crash report
<voidspace> davmor2: empty
<voidspace> bug report for this failure
<voidspace> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/778587
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 778587 in apport (Ubuntu) "starting automatic crash report generation failed at boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<davmor2> BigRedS: it was on the off chance that it crashed
<BigRedS> davmor2: ah, so it tries to file a report and, if it finds nothing's crashed it finds it can't create one?
<davmor2> BigRedS: No /var/crash grabs what it can of a crash then adds to it before sending the report to LP via apport/ubuntu-bug
<davmor2> aiui
<JGJones_> gord - DJones' just my clone.
<HazRPG> I've noticed since I switched from Rhythmbox to Banshee on my 10.10, that my sound doesn't suddenly go tinny any more randomly
<HazRPG> something that use to bug me no end
<HazRPG> even if rhythmbox wasn't playing music... it was weird
<shauno> I swear trainees will be the death of me
 * BigRedS aims to never be competent enough to get a trainee
<Azelphur> uhh
<Azelphur> so following the example on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync
<Azelphur> where it tells you how to backup over a network
<Azelphur> and it just deleted the data I was trying to backup
<Azelphur> any way I can get that stuff back?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are you  sure it deleted it?
<Azelphur> rsync spammed "deleting <file>" and the files arn't there any more
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: if it's ext4, recovery will probably be impossible
<Azelphur> the backup over network command is clearly a troll
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: use --dry-run next time -- it tells you what it WILL do
<MartijnVdS> then remove --dry-run after you've convinced yourself it's good
<MartijnVdS> also, let's fix the troll (Sorry about your data)
<Azelphur> heh, the documentation doesn't say that
<Azelphur> yea :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's almost right..
<Azelphur> yea it's ext4, what do I do? :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: turn off the machine now, then check this page: http://extundelete.sourceforge.net/
<MartijnVdS> maybe not turn it off
<MartijnVdS> stop touching it anyway
<Azelphur> yea I havn't touched it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: check that page
<Azelphur> reading
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it has a HOWTO
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also.. the "remote backup" rsync command seems OK.. there's just a line break in the middle because it's too long (and it wraps)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe that's what went wrong?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I've added the --dry-run note
<Azelphur> nope, it wouldn't have got access to the remote machine to backup at all if I hadn't reached the end?
<BigRedS> popey: front page of oggcamp.org is missing a closing bracket at "(though, this year, we also have a scheduled track"
<popey> what exact command did you run?
<popey> paste it?
<Azelphur> rsync --delete -azvv -e ssh . lorna@192.168.1.135:/home
<popey> and what was in . at the time?
<popey> the current directory
<Azelphur> nothing, it was an empty folder with which to put the backup in
<popey> well that was silly
<MartijnVdS> "deleting" means it's deleting on the remote end
<popey> it did exactly what you told it to do
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> rsync --delete doesn't delete on the local end
<Azelphur> unclear documentation is unclear :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: is it better now I've changed it a bit?
<Azelphur> yea cool :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> BigRedS: fixed
<BigRedS> whoop!
<Azelphur> livecding now, I've got slightly old backups of most things
 * BigRedS has no more parse errors
<BigRedS> cheers :)
<popey> no, thank _you_
<MartijnVdS> thank ALL Y'ALL
<mgdm> Note to self: "Move to workspace right" does not mean "move to the monitor on the right"...
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's Friday, you're tired, we understand
<mgdm> it's good to know people do :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Preparing for Approval and Re-Approval. Dos and Donts - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/07/22/preparing-for-approval-and-re-approval-dos-and-donts/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Art of Community: Second Edition Confirmed - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/22/the-art-of-community-second-edition-confirmed/
<ali1234> popey: do you think "EaseUS" is a deliberate pun on the spanish pronunciation of Jesus? (as in, it brings your files back from the dead)
<popey> heh
<xapel> where can I get logs of conversations in a freenode channel?
<czajkowski> xapel: depends which channel you're looking for
<xapel> czajkowski: ubuntu-classroom
<czajkowski> xapel: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/
<czajkowski> link of channels for todays logs
<xapel> czajkowski: thanks!
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> xapel: if you go /topic in here you see the link to the logs for ubuntu channels
<davmor2> does anyone have an ati hd 4350 gfx card how does it run under Ubuntu please
<MartijnVdS> just plug it in
<MartijnVdS> as long as you don't have a xorg.conf (i.e. default settings) it should work out of the box
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeah I know that I'm asking how it performs ;)  I need a fairly cheap decent gfx card that will out perform the crappy one on my motherboard :)
<ali1234> get nvidia
<MartijnVdS> never get nvidia
<davmor2> ali1234: there is nvidia in it that's what I'm trying to get away from for a change nvidia's binary driver has gone down hill latey
<MartijnVdS> ati's free drivers are getting a lot better, and actually have both 2d and 3d performance
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: thanks
<ali1234> ati's drivers still can't even do 2d without corrupting the display, free or nonfree, it doesn't matter
<MartijnVdS> ati's non-free driver doesn't have 2d performance, but 3D is good, but it has the same problem as the nvidia driver: it's crappy non-free software that's prone to break at the slightest kernel upgrade
 * MartijnVdS switched to all-intel
<gord> still better than sandybridge ;)
 * MartijnVdS waits for ivy bridge
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: so I'm trying to run extundelete, I sshfs mounted my PC and am trying to restore the files into that directory
<Azelphur> but it's saying stat: RECOVERED_FILES/ permission denied
<Azelphur> but the folder is 777 and I can create and remove files and folders in that directory.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I don't know, I've never used it
<Azelphur> oh, unless I'm root
<Azelphur> root can't create the files, but a standard user can
<Azelphur> \o/
<MartijnVdS> did you mount the sshfs as standard user?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> oh wait, yea I did
<Azelphur> I guess that's the problem :)
<MartijnVdS> there's your problem ;)
<MartijnVdS> fuse is weird like that
 * brobostigon gets mumble ready for tommorow nights meeting.
 * MartijnVdS can't attend tomorrow's meeting (maybe on irc) -- data roaming ain't cheap
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: dont you have unlimited data plans ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes, but not when abroad
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see.
<mgdm> long shot, but anyone here going to FrosCon (in Germany, end of next month?)
<MartijnVdS> (also, not anymore by the end of the year, all mobile phone providers announced price increases for data this week)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll be taking the Eurostar to London tomorrow :)
<brobostigon> i thought, for roaming, all over europe, the prices are meant to become fairer. ?
<MartijnVdS> sure
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah. :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: with my provider three, it is more or less the same cost roaming, as it is here locally.
<MartijnVdS> but it's still "â¬2 for 35M/day, â¬a_lot for each MB after that"
<brobostigon> ouch.
<MartijnVdS> â¬0,30/MB
<brobostigon> agreed.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: where abouts are you? XD
<Azelphur> haha 35MB/day
<jacobw> London apparently.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's only while roaming -- I have unlimited internet for â¬7 here in the Netherlands
<Azelphur> time to switch to a provider that doesn't suck
<brobostigon> 19:18:28 < MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll be taking the Eurostar to London tomorrow :)
<Azelphur> oh, while roaming
<Azelphur> you can get unlimited for Â£10 here if you want it
<Azelphur> for a month
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Only in the UK, or roaming?
<Azelphur> only in the UK
<Azelphur> I think
<MartijnVdS> Yes, I have that for â¬7 :)
<MartijnVdS> Vodafone \o/
<Azelphur> fun
<mgdm> I have 500MB on my contract, but as I spend most of my time in range of wifi, I don't use all of that
<Azelphur> I turn wifi off on my phone just because there's no need to use it
<Azelphur> don't have to signal hop and the hsdpa speeds are perfectly acceptable for anything you'd want to do on a phone
<MartijnVdS> I hope my hotel has proper wifi
<mgdm> I found that if I turned wifi off on my phone, my battery life *decreased*
<brobostigon> also, on my phone, wifi seems to use more power, that using hsdpa.
<Azelphur> mgdm: that reminds me of the time when I turned compiz effects on and my computer got faster.
<mgdm> it ended up doing everything over slower, higher power, phone network
<mgdm> heh
<Azelphur> (documentable and reproducable, I think I even uploaded it to youtube)
<ali1234> 3G is notorious for using lots of power
<bigcalm> mgdm: While wifi is on, it won't look for a 3g data signal. Seems a little arse backwards
<mgdm> I can believe it
<mgdm> bigcalm: aye
<MartijnVdS> Works very well on my AP -- which has a special "support low-power devices" flag
<Azelphur> yea, there we go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSjkTOLCMA4
<MartijnVdS> it increases the beacon time, or something
<Azelphur> no fire: horrible ugly choppyness, put a drop of fire down, suddenly smoothness
<mgdm> I have a panel on the phone that has wifi, bluetooth, and GPS controls
<mgdm> the only one that's ever off is BT, as I barely use it
<bigcalm> The default setting in CyanogenMod is for wifi to go to sleep when the screen is off. That reduces the battery from 2 days to about 8-15 hours
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: same for stock
<bigcalm> Really?
<bigcalm> Not on sense ui
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it is on my N11
<brobostigon> hsdpa here, on my htc dream, with android 2.3.4, uses less power while turned on, than having wifi turned on.
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> N1
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: get a better access point -- or increase the beacon interval manually ;)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Ah, I put CyanogenMod onto my N1 not long after getting it, so couldn't remember
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i will look at those, interesting. thank you.
<Azelphur> i just went out and bought a fun 3.5kmAh battery for my phone.
<Azelphur> fixed(tm)
<mgdm> I think the phone uses more instantaneous power when wifi is on, but gets work done faster, so it can go back to sleep again quicker (same reason as clocking a CPU core down is not actually the best way to save power)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://wi-figurus.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=183
<mgdm> better to go to full power quickly and then back to sleep than go to medium power for longer
<Azelphur> I even overclocked to 1.7ghz, battery life is still fine :D
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: was set at 200 msec, i have now set it to 100 msec.
<brobostigon> 1000*
<AlanBell> evening all
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<jacobw> o/
 * AlanBell needs to do some blogs and emails
 * brobostigon had a productive day, he reinstalled android on his mobile.
<jacobw> sounds productive :p
<brobostigon> also i played a dartboard, for my doctor to take blood from.
<MartijnVdS> "180!"
<jacobw> i think i may be addicted to olives
<jacobw> i mean, i have to plan which stores to buy from so i don't look strange buying them too often from the same place :|
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> not my sorta thing
<shauno> jacobw: embrace it.  look weird.  it's easier, and more entertaining :)
<shauno> buy them with a smile on your face.  make people worry.
<jacobw> haha
<shauno> thinking about it, that's how I handle most awkward shopping.  tesco involves female hygiene products?  giant, less than sane grin. take control of the situation :)
<ali1234> hmm that's interesting
<hamitron> "these work wonders in teh garage"
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> lol
<AlanBell> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YNRhFBousw8/TilZsKnQZRI/AAAAAAAAAa0/_gPQpi-ZKlw/h301/2011-07-22%2B11.56.28.jpg meetup location for Sunday
 * jacobw is watching Sherlock
<hamitron> I've just been watching disk defragmentor
<jacobw> party at your house ;)
<hamitron> tired me out, tell ya ;)
<ali1234> i just plugged an old memory card into my android phone with google+ app and it auto uploaded all the old photos on it
<ali1234> so it doesn't just auto upload new photos
<jacobw> oops
<hamitron> but all those old dirty pictures of your ex?
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> well luckily it doesn't auto share them, it just uploads them
 * hamitron looks at clock
<ali1234> but sadly nothing so interesting
<hamitron> maybe too early for such joking
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> it's just the one and only photo i took with the old phone, in order to test the camera
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> that was the only picture i ever took with that phone
<hamitron> oh well
<hamitron> just shows how useful camera on the phone are
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> well the phone was kind of crap so i never really used it
<hamitron> ah
<ali1234> and then i put the card in a different phone that didn't save to external memory card
<ali1234> it was a 5800
<hamitron> I'm tempted with the 5800
<ali1234> then i got a C7 instead
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> 5800 is rubbish, do not buy
<hamitron> heard it is a little slow
<ali1234> get a C6 or a C7
<ali1234> C6-01 is pretty much the direct replacement for 5800
<hamitron> they are symbian?
<ali1234> yeah they are all symbian
<hamitron> symbian was "open" for a while
<hamitron> is there any group online making a firmware?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> the phones are locked
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> and nokia actually knows how tomake a secure bootloader
<ali1234> so you have to solder wires to the circuit board if you want to reflash
<ali1234> not that there is any point
<hamitron> I'd be happy with that tbh
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> i mean symbian just works
<hamitron> true
<ali1234> there's no need to reflash it
<hamitron> but it is just the idea of using the source
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I sure wish I could customise my ngagfe firmware
<hamitron> allow reseting of it, to recover from the white screen of death
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> real shame meego never took off
<hamitron> or was it Meamo
<hamitron> or something
<hamitron> :/
<brobostigon> both.
<hamitron> I get confused
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> meego device isn't even available yet
<ali1234> if you want to wind some people up go to #meego and ask them when you'll be able to buy a meego phone. they REALLY hate that
<hamitron> I'm actually tempted to get a WP7 phone
<hamitron> I will certainly look into it, if I ever go get a phone
<andylockran> hey guys - I could do with some web advice. I can't port a site to a CMS due to time constraints, so I'm going to create a 'front page' for the site instead.
<andylockran> It'll display the latest news (rss feed), a couple of twitter feeds, next match info and a link through to the main site.
<andylockran> I'm thinking of doing it in pure php - but any other ideas?
<ali1234> do it entirely in javascript?
<andylockran> ali1234: well I was thinking php + jquery
<ali1234> you don't need any php for that
<hamitron> was tempted to ask if that could be done, to reduce load on the server.. but didn't wanna show my newbness :/
<gord> honestly sounds like it would be easier in pure javascript andylockran, just because someone will have nice api's toget twitter feeds and rss feeds
<Laney> wait
<Laney> lion has overlay scrollbars?!
<andylockran> gord: ok, will do
<jacobw> does it Laney ?
<jacobw> the madness is spreading ..
<Laney> apparently
<popey> yes
<popey> it has other very natty changes
<popey> like the network icon and power icon on the logon screen
<ali1234> did they move the buttons over to the right?
<Laney> didn't ubuntu have that window resizing thing too?
<Laney> http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/window-resizing-11A511.png
<gord> yeah but ours is better than that
<ali1234> what, the ability to resize a window from any edge?
<ali1234> they finally added that to mac os?!?!?
<ali1234> wow
<ali1234> amazing
<ali1234> how much is lion going to cost?
<ali1234> $29.99
<ali1234> bit much just to see if it's no longer completely infuriating
<gord> i'm guessing you can demo it at a macstore
<gord> apple store
<popey> ali1234: 21 quid
<popey> I upgraded my mbp and my imac
<popey> but really only the mbp gets the benefit
<popey> the imac doesnt have "magic" touchpad
<andylockran> cheers for the tip on javascript
<andylockran> reckon I'm a fair bit of the way through
<andylockran> how are you popey
<popey> howdy howdy howdy andylockran
<andylockran> :)
<gord> upload has nerfed down to 0.2mbit, dns requests are taking forever... i need a new router =\
<frnasani_attotec> hello
<AlanBell> hi
<frnasani_attotec> hi alen
<andylockran> hi
<andylockran> how's things
<andylockran> AlanBell: it's weird.  didn't think you could get such a countryside looking place so close to Tower Bridge..
<andylockran> where were you at?
<AlanBell> yeah, nice angle isn't it
<andylockran> brilliant angle
<andylockran> gf is currently working @ Alzheimer's Society on St Katharine's Docks (right next to tower bridge)
<andylockran> absolutely gorgeous part of London
<AlanBell> that is where I was going
<andylockran> Alzheimers?
<AlanBell> (um, not to your gf you understand)
<andylockran> or just St Ks?
<AlanBell> St ks
<AlanBell> that is where fossbox is
 * andylockran goes to google fossbox
<AlanBell> https://bitly.com/
<AlanBell> http://bit.ly/pvda49 even
<StevenR> AlanBell: when's the approval app due? (or has the deadline passed?) Been out of the world for a week
<AlanBell> due any time this cycle really
<AlanBell> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/07/22/preparing-for-approval-and-re-approval-dos-and-donts/
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 we need to add dates to everything and photos and get stuff in order
<andylockran> ONhttp://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3708306/Hospital-tells-families-Visit-sick-relatives-on-Skype.html
<andylockran> can you believe that ^
<AlanBell> junk story
<popey> +1
<hamitron> the sun is a quality source of information ;/
<andylockran> in the sun??
<AlanBell> it is spun to make it sound bad
<StevenR> hamitron: you mis-spelled "misinformation"
<StevenR> :P
<hamitron> a lot of the media is doing that loads recently :/
<hamitron> StevenR: :D
<hamitron> I reckon suicide rates would go up, if everyone just read the headlines and stuff
<AlanBell> hospital investigates adding webcams to the spec of their bedside multifunctional screen things, hey, this means we can let patients skype relatives, won't that be awesome . . .
<hamitron> :/
<AlanBell> press gets hold of story, spins it until it sounds evil enough, then prints it
<hamitron> AlanBell: how much will they charge? ;)
<hamitron> is the big question
<AlanBell> loads, which is fine by me
<StevenR> AlanBell: good. I started to re-write the first paragraph to make it clearer, but never got chance to fit it in with all the links and stuff
<AlanBell> StevenR: great, I really appreciate the help
<StevenR> (this week has vanished for various unavoidable reasons, and things will probably continue this way for a bit unfortunately)
 * hamitron punches Azelphur
<hamitron> ;)
<StevenR> AlanBell: when's the end of this cycle ?
 * Azelphur punches pidgin
<popey> !oneiric
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<popey> some time in october
<StevenR> cool.
<hamitron> !11.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<hamitron> yey
<hamitron> I'm no good with names ;)
<AlanBell> October 13th
<StevenR> I'm not much use content-wise (fairly new to this community), but I'm obsessive over correct grammar and spelling. :)
<StevenR> it tends to upset people at work.
<StevenR> (if they don't want me to correct it, they should write it properly before they publish it)
<StevenR> but hey, I'm not alone in that, there's a few of us like that on the team
<StevenR> (that came out alot nastier that I meant it to :S )
 * hamitron wonders if it is safe to come out
<StevenR> hamitron: if you mean from me, then yes, it is. :P  ... I'm just tired and grouchy (I should think more happy thoughts probably)
<hamitron> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-23
<Azelphur> @popey OMG! Apple have invented software updates directly on the phone! Wow!Â http://t.co/GjHFlDJ
<Azelphur> Not sure if serious...
 * gord adds belkin to the list of "never ever give money to again ever"
<AlanBell> 333 down 797 up
<AlanBell> speed test result in the barley room of the maltings
<AlanBell> 454down in the car park
<GreenDance> morning all
<GreenDance> can someone whois me please and paste it back to me, thanks
<GreenDance> hello?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<GreenDance> hi brobostigon
<danfish> GreenDance: 10:38 -!- GreenDance [5ceea84b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.238.168.75]
<danfish> morning btw
<brobostigon> morning GreenDance and danfish
<danfish> o//
<danfish> o/ even
<brobostigon> o/
 * AlanBell wonders what to bring for the geeknic tomorrow
<brobostigon> ginger beer :)
<AlanBell> we have a meeting tonight at 9PM btw
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> lashings of it!!
<brobostigon> yay
<brobostigon> pimms ?
<danfish> gin.....lots of it.....drown sorrows etc
<danfish> a rather powerful anti-gin advert http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Beer-street-and-Gin-lane.jpg
<AlanBell> "In comparison to the sickly hopeless denizens of Gin Lane, the happy people of Beer Street sparkle with robust health and bonhomie."
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane also a really enlightened attitude to copyright and piracy
 * StevenR might be back for the end of the meeting
<danfish> AlanBell: it's a work of art for many reasons - probably my favorite (but I know diddly-squat about art)
<JGJones_> hello
<JGJones_> when I am ssh'ing into a remote box and I wish to use zenity to send a message to the x session to a logged in user - how do I do this?
<dwatkins> JGJones_: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=759389&page=2 - the last post on that page works for me
<dwatkins> I think you need to set the DISPLAY variable in the same command
<dwatkins> For example:  DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/bin/zenity --question --text "Question"
<dwatkins> I don't know how you would do that for an arbitrary user, but if you have sudo access, you can combine that with 'su' as per the example given.
<JGJones_> ah ok thanks - and how would I find out the active DISPLAY in use?
<dwatkins> See the 2nd page of the thread, JGJones_
<JGJones_> oh I didn't see that url - thanks dwatkins
<dwatkins> I'm not sure that's the most efficient way to find out what display a user is using, and you might want to replace screensa with [s]creensa in order to not find your own result, but it works :)
<dwatkins> s/result/grep process/
<BigRedS> in a bash script I'd like to run a command with stdout going to a file and stderr to a variable, is there a simple way to do that?
<BigRedS> I definitely don't want stdout in the variable or stderr in the file, though :(
<BigRedS> All I can think of is to create a wrapper script that directs all stdout to a file, and so I can run that redirecting stderr to the (now empty) stdout and use that in this script
 * AlanBell is off to the maltings later to buy some chickens \o/
<gord> chickens \o/
<brobostigon> yummy. :)
<daubers> lo
<penguin42> indeed
<StevenR_> hmm. I need to change the port that openvpn listens on at home
<StevenR_> or sshd
<StevenR_> can't get to either from here.
<StevenR_> ok. so actually nothing works apart from web.
<BigRedS> StevenR_: my sshd listens on 443 for exactly that reason :)
<StevenR_> BigRedS: not even xmpp, etc work.
<BigRedS> I'm guessing you're just somewhere behind a particularly restrictive firewall?
<BigRedS> but 443 is almost always allowed, 'cause it's the standard port for https
<StevenR_> BigRedS: I'm at my sister's house, and we think they have some builtin security thing somewhere in the chain
<StevenR_> BigRedS: it's not too much of a bother, I'll just alter the openvpn to listen on 443 for next time I'm down.
<StevenR_> or sshd
<StevenR_> BigRedS: I'm well aware of why it's broken (I've built firewalls/policies that were even more restrictive), I just can't fix it right now :)
<StevenR_> hrrm. I'll need something that works over udp
<ali1234> openvpn works over udp
<StevenR_> ali1234: yes, but I need a udp port that works, i.e. isn't filtered (53 isn't)
<StevenR_> ali1234: my current openvpn on UDP:bignum doesn't work
<scoundrel50a> what is the command you use to connect to another computer using ssh
<brobostigon> ssh user@ip
<scoundrel50a> ah, thank you
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yes, that simple.
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> bread in the machine, muffins in the oven. Preparations for tomorrow well under control
<penguin42> tomorrow?
<daubers> http://ubuntu-uk.org/2011/07/01/books-and-butties/
<daubers> Tomorrow \o/
<penguin42> ah, I don't do down to London much
<daubers> i'm there 3 times in the next week :(
 * penguin42 bit too expensive to go down there from Manc just on a whim unless I'm certain and can book in advance
<daubers> :)
<popey> Evening all!
<brobostigon> evening popey
<mgdm> Evening
 * brobostigon has chilli al'la popey's recipe.
<diplo> evening all
<brobostigon> evening diplo
<daubers> lo
<andres_kain> good evening.
<daubers> o/
<andres_kain> o/
<andres_kain> a quick question, how do I diagnose what is going on with the sofware centre if the update manager and the synaptic manager work?
<brobostigon> andres_kain: try apt-get (update/install) manually from terminal.
<brobostigon> + sudo in front.
<andres_kain> reinstalled it through synaptic with no joy, would that have been the same thing?
<brobostigon> andres_kain: are you getting any error output?
<brobostigon> from terminal?
<andres_kain> none. The sofware centre starts up and shudowns fine It's just that it will not install or uninstall anything. ... damn, didn't try terminal... Il'll give it ago.
<brobostigon> andres_kain: no, try apt form terminal and see if you get any error output?
<andres_kain> sudo apt-get update updates fine, no error.
<andres_kain> guess if synaptic works apt-get should be fine?
<popey> andres_kain: I cant see where you've told us what the actual problem is?
<andres_kain> running the software-centre from terminal does give me a good amount of warnings...
<andres_kain> I'll try to back up.
<popey> andres_kain: what is the problem you're seeing?
<andres_kain> I open software centre. choose a program. Click install (or ininstall) and it does nothing. It goes as far as checking dependencies. But that's it.
<andres_kain> no crashing
<popey> what program are you trying to install?
<andres_kain> any program
<andres_kain> uninstalling the same.
<popey> such as?
<andres_kain> pigeon, skype plugind for empathy, blinken, viking, ... I can try any random you guys can think of.
<andres_kain> uninstalling shows the same result.
<popey> ok
<andres_kain> now... confesion...
<andres_kain> I moved from unity 2D to xubuntu
<andres_kain> Since it was some sort of mix at the end I started uninstalling unity things that I wasn't using.
<popey> what happens if you run "sudo apt-get install pidgin" ?
<popey> can you pastebin the result?
<andres_kain> It will probably intall it, as the synaptic works fine. I have pidgen install. but I'll give it a go
<popey> ok, try something else, cowsay?
<popey> sudo apt-get install cowsay
<andres_kain> installing fine...
<andres_kain> cowsay
<andres_kain> installed. What is that supposed to do?
<popey> can you pastebin the output?
<andres_kain> ndres@andres-laptop:~$ sudo apt-get install cowsay
<andres_kain> Leyendo lista de paquetes... Hecho
<andres_kain> Creando Ã¡rbol de dependencias
<popey> no
<popey> pastebin
<andres_kain> Leyendo la informaciÃ³n de estado... Hecho
<popey> not paste
<andres_kain> Paquetes sugeridos:
<popey> gah
<andres_kain>   filters
<andres_kain> Se instalarÃ¡n los siguientes paquetes NUEVOS:
<andres_kain>   cowsay
<andres_kain> 0 actualizados, 1 se instalarÃ¡n, 0 para eliminar y 0 no actualizados.
<andres_kain> Procesando disparadores para man-db ...
<andres_kain> Configurando cowsay (3.03+dfsg1-3) ...
<andres_kain> sorry spanish.
<andres_kain> ups...
<andres_kain> don't know what pastebin is. sorry
<popey> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<popey> ok, so your package manager works fine by the look of it
<andres_kain> yep. synaptic and update manager seems to work fine.
<popey> sounds like you've removed one or more components that the software center needs
<andres_kain> so I look up dependencies of software centre and reinstall them?
<popey> sudo apt-get install --reinstall software-center
<andres_kain> sorry about the pastbin, I'll have a read.
<popey> np
<popey> everyone does it once
<andres_kain> I guess you get killed the second time.
<popey> nah
<popey> just stern looks and tutting
<daubers> We're good at that
<andres_kain> seems to be doing the same thing that I did with the synaptic package manager. rightclick reinstall.
<popey> well, congratulations, its broken, you get to keep all the pieces
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
<andres_kain> yep, done reinstall and still doesn't work. I'll do a reinstall of system, can't show off how cool the laptop is in these conditions.
<popey> have you run software centre from a terminal?
<popey> and see any errors when you choose to install something?
<andres_kain> yep, loads of warnings... I'll have a look.
<andres_kain> !paste how does it work?
<lubotu3> andres_kain: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<popey> just go to http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<popey> and paste whatever you want to show us there
<popey> then give us the url
<andres_kain> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/112288
<popey> I'd paste the entire output
<popey> not just one line
<andres_kain> that is the warning when clickin the button, but before that I get other warnings.
<andres_kain> OK
<popey> thats only a warning though
<popey> you could just reinstall everything you get on a base install with "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^"
<popey> which should put anything back that you removed
<popey> note the ^ at the end
<andres_kain> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/112289
<andres_kain> even if it's xubuntu?
<popey> you said it was ubuntu
<popey> and you install xfce?
<andres_kain> xubuntu desktop when I had unity2D running, so that I could choose at start up. one sec afk
<popey> ah, misunderstood, sorry.
<popey> Dunno anything about xubuntu, sorry.
<Myrtti> popey â¥
<andres_kain> no worries, It's my mess. I'll dig around, Thought it was something simple that I was missing. Thanks for your help!
<andres_kain> Just a note, previously software-centre worked OK with xubuntu. I think I uninstalled unity and unity2D and that created a mess.
<popey> good work :D
<andres_kain> yep. I guess there is a reason the xubuntu-desktop is not in the software-center and why it seems synaptic will be removed from the default install. Keeping fools like me from making a mess.
<andres_kain> apt-get install xubuntu-desktop seems to be doing something.
<brobostigon> there might be package inconsistencies between the metapackages?
<andres_kain> ... ummm maybe? it's installing 38Mb of missing libs of some sort...
<andres_kain> omg, this stuff is really clever.
<andres_kain> I can actually read the stuff coming out and it's all completely understandable. I'm at awe.
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> andres_kain: that is what it was doing underneath software center.
<andres_kain> I was in high form a moment, but It's a fail in the end.
<andres_kain> OK I'll keep looking.
<brobostigon> i frequbetly have an inconsistant system. i have 11.04 with gnome3 teams ppa. and then debian sid apt-pinned to debian experimental. it makes for some interesting experineces.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: how stable is vanilla sid?
<BigRedS> I'm wondering about 'upgrading' from testing
<andres_kain> check my mail as well... geeknic tomorrow?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: very so. on its own. mostly.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: however some packages in unstable need to packages from experimental to complete.
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I remember that from before. But I'm rather conservative in most of my software choices, I'll probably not be doing that very much
<BigRedS> sid is still Gnome 2?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i am using gnome3/gnome-shell, i havent tried gnome2 in unstable.
<BigRedS> ah, fair enough. how's gnome3?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: stable mostly. except something today broke something, to stop it from starting fully.
<BigRedS> hmmm. Well, given that I'm only getting round to upgrading every few months at the minute, that shouldn't happen too frequently to me...
<brobostigon> so i am in gnome3 fallback mode.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: just be very careful, and dont aptitude dist-upgrade without making notes, do, aptitude safe-upgrade.
<BigRedS> yeah, I used to use sid, I'm used to expecting breakage :)
<BigRedS> that's why I'm pondering upgrading, I'm getting a bit bored of testing Just Working
<andres_kain> Thanks alan for organizing the sci-fi and geeknic!
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: and my onlu option was to use unstable + experimental, i don think testing and experimental would work, in truth.
<BigRedS> allegedly it'll work for experimental's gnome3
<BigRedS> but I'm not looking to try that, really
<brobostigon> i wouldnt try it either,
<AlanBell> evening all, just going to have a quick meeting over in #ubuntu-uk-meeting to go over geeknic plans for tomorrow and talk about the reapproval
<andres_kain> lol having fun with the omg ponies notification style...
<Azelphur> Is there any place in the UK you can get decent built to order laptops, preferably Asus or MSI
<BigRedS> Surely if they're asus or msi they're not built to order?
<Azelphur> BigRedS by BTO I mean that I can change the specs before ordering
<Azelphur> I can find them in the US for example, where you can set the laptop you want, and then set what you want inside it
<gord> Azelphur, lenovo :)
<BigRedS> yeah, dell and lenovo both let you change the specs
<Azelphur> kinda erring away from dell
<BigRedS> yeah, I would
<Azelphur> maybe lenovo though :)
<BigRedS> I erred away from dell to lenovo
<BigRedS> and I'm not quite as prostelytic as gord about it, but nearly :)
<gord> time to change random settings on my router until it randomly starts working again
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> do lenovo do gaming laptops at all/
<BigRedS> I play games on my thinkpad...
<Azelphur> minecraft :D
<BigRedS> I don't think they do anything with half of maplin taped to the outside of it, which is normally how I spot a 'gaming' machine :)
<gord> eh, i'v never seen a good gaming laptop anyway, just find a good laptop
<gord> laptops just can't deliver enough power to the gpu to really be classed as "gaming"
<Azelphur> half a maplin ;)
<mgdm> I've heard the phrase "driven through Halfords with glue on" to describe cars with spoilers/stickers/all that nonsense on
<mgdm> but not that for gaming machines, I like it :)
<BigRedS> haha
<penguin42> maplins isn't like it used to be :-(
<BigRedS> I did get it from another car description - "half of halfords on top, half of maplin underneath"
<mgdm> heh heh
<gord> the ubuntu start up theme starts getting annoying ;) someone design a new one
<gord> the more cow bell and clown noises the better
<BigRedS> every time I hear it I think it's windows booting for some reason
<gord> nah windows either likes to sound like it was an achievement just booting up, or that you are being serenaded into the gates of heaven
<BigRedS> haha
<mgdm> I think that when a machine boots it needs to play track 1 of the Tron: Legacy soundtrack
<gord> if it were up to me, they would all play sledgehammer by peter gabriel. in full
<mgdm> Good choice
<gord> if the boot up splash can reflect the music video, then +1
<mgdm> I had the wrong video in mind there, New Order's True Faith instead of the real one
<mgdm> so I imagined a splash screen of people slapping each other
<gord> that would also be acceptible ;)
<mgdm> in fact, actually, there's a good drum sample at the start of that track :)
<penguin42> heck, I wish there was a decent way to filter the high bandwidth guys out of a stream on g+
<mgdm> unfollow them? :)
<mgdm> whatever the phrase is
<penguin42> well I could block them, but that also stops letting them commenting on my posts - which I don't mind; it's just I don't need that level of updates
<BigRedS> unencircle?
<BigRedS> decircle is probably less inelagant
<gord> well i pressed enough buttons and magically the wifi works for some of my devices. i guess that is good enough till the new ap arrives...
<BigRedS> my network manager requires that sort of voodoo at the minute
<gord> penguin42, put them in the "high bandwidth" circle
<gord> then don't read that circle
<penguin42> gord: But I tend to read all circles; I want to be able to read all but a high bw circle
<dwatkins> penguin42: I had the same trouble, I ended up just blocking the more verbose people
<mgdm> I don't do much with G+
<mgdm> I have loads of followers for some reason, though
<dwatkins> A whole bunch of people found me through the retro gaming community, I think they just added everyone.
<mgdm> I get the same impression, most of the folk following me are PHP devs
<mgdm> or something along those lines
<daubers> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<daubers> Anniversary weekend away booked
<BigRedS> is Oneiric going to be an LTS?
<daubers> !LTS
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
<BigRedS> (and why does my google fu not help me find an answer to that)
<daubers> Oneiric+1 is LTS I think... (2 years isn't it?)
<BigRedS> aha, cool
<BigRedS> You're more sure than I am so I'll take you as authoritative
<daubers> 12.04 according to wikipedia :)
<BigRedS> aha!
<daubers> So oneiric+1
<BigRedS> there I was assuming the ubuntu wiki was the place to go for that info :)
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
<BigRedS> yeah, exactly
<BigRedS> that's where I thought it'd say it
<AlanBell> it does say LTS is normally every two years
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i need a chat, when you come round please.
<BigRedS> ah yeah.
<BigRedS> I should probably have rtfa...
<AlanBell> it is pretty likely that 12.04 will be LTS, but not totally inconceivable that it might not
<BigRedS> i just did a bunch of finds and they all failed to find anything
<AlanBell> if gnome releases move about or something
<BigRedS> as long as it's not oneiric I'm fine :)
<AlanBell> it isn't :)
<daubers> :)
<AlanBell> Perfect Penguin maybe
<BigRedS> i've just found one of my scripts is very broken in oneiric, but it only needs to work on debians and ltss
<AlanBell> so for those coming tomorrow there may be significant tube disruption
<daubers> The TFL site will direct you around the disruption if needed
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 9th August 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries, SciFi and Geeknicks 24th July!
<AlanBell> if parking is resident permit holders mon-fri does that mean it is free parking at the weekends?
<czajkowski> ok annoying
<czajkowski> I pined a tab yesterday
<BigRedS> AlanBell: sometimes
<czajkowski> and have since unpined it
<czajkowski> but on start up it's still there each time
<czajkowski> >:(
<BigRedS> depends on the council. I think you're going to camden, but I don't know what they do.
<AlanBell> looks like there might be parking in the streets behind the library
<AlanBell> popey: pick you up 9:30 ish?
 * daubers ehads to bed
<daubers> shall see peeps tomorrow :)
<brobostigon> good night daubers o/
<brobostigon> good night everyone aswell, sleep well.
<popey> BigRedS: you're fast on the -users list :D
<popey> AlanBell: ugh! Yeah, I guess so âº
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-24
<AlanBell> morning all
<BigRedS> popey: haha, just as I silenced my alarm my laptop beeped at me... :)
<daubers> lo
<BigRedS> good morning!
 * daubers is almost ready for a train ride to londered
<daubers> sammiches made
<popey> AlanBell: change of plan!
<popey> AlanBell: I wont need picking up
<BigRedS> aw man. This is going to be dead today :(
<popey> this irc channel?
 * popey sends AlanBell a text
<BigRedS> popey: yeah
<BigRedS> since you'll all be off at the museum
<popey> heh, it will be quiet
<popey> unless people at the museum somehow ssh in :D
<BigRedS> that would be amusing. walking round in complete silence, talking to each other over IRC instead
<popey> heh
 * popey goes to make breakfast
<ali1234> how do i get android to show my phone number?
<BigRedS> it's buried in the settings IIRC
<BigRedS> ali1234: menu, settings, about phone, network
<BigRedS> on mine
<BigRedS> er, no, phone identity rather than network
<ali1234> settings -> about phone -> status on 2.3
<AlanBell> popey: ok, won't pick you up
<AlanBell> didn't get a text though
<popey> faster to dial another phone ali1234 :D
<popey> AlanBell: did you change number when you got a new phone?
<ali1234> but i don't have another phone
<popey> if so I dont have your number
<popey> ah
<AlanBell> 07738 789190
<ali1234> well i do but i only have 1 sim card
<ali1234> so, if i put my phone number in my google+ profile, and share it with a certain circle, do people in that circle who have android see it on their phone?
<ali1234> cos the good thing about android is it gets all my contacts... but the bad thing is nobody shares their phone number on their public profile for obvious reasons
<ali1234> so i just get a bunch of contacts with no phone numbers
<ali1234> but circles might solve that problem
<ali1234> i hope some day we can put circles inside other circles
<AlanBell> circles in circles feature is landing next week or thereabouts I think
<ali1234> awesome
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Falling for the Stars - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/07/24/falling-for-the-stars/
<ali1234> so i don't want to start an argument or anything
<ali1234> but isn't the oracle vs google thing exactly what the anti-mono crowd fear will happen with mono, except played out with java?
<ali1234> and what's to stop oracle from buying microsoft and then starting suing everyone who uses mono?
<popey> isnt there a no-sue agreement Microsoft has?
<popey> I guess in your scenario oracle could revoke that?
<BigRedS> yeah, that was part of the point ISTR
<ali1234> so oracle says "sorry, your agreement is with microsoft, not us"
<ali1234> "lawsuit"
 * popey shrugs
<ali1234> so i heard there was a email client with a plugin that makes it like gmail
<ali1234> but i can't remember if it was evolution or thunderbird
<BigRedS> thunderbird I think
<ali1234> time to try it out i guess
<ali1234> it can't be worse than evo
<BigRedS> haha, I don't think there's much that's worse than evo
<ali1234> for me the best thing about gmail is not the way it draws the conversation but the way it intelligently threads things
<ali1234> evolution doesn't seem to be able to thread email at all
<ali1234> tbird actually understands how to set up a gmail account automatically unlike evolution...
<BigRedS> Yeah, and tbird sort-of works with Gmail's odd idea of folders
<ali1234> it doesn't work properly with unity launcher though
 * BigRedS feigns surprise
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<marxjohnson> ey up
<brobostigon> morning marxjohnson
<BigRedS> g'morning brobostigon & marxjohnson
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> G'morning! How's things?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: not bad, just trying to fix some (libmozjs, dbus, gnome-settings) segfaults. and you?
<BigRedS> yeah, pretty good really. Getting lots of long-standing things done which is nice. But stuff keeps moving around my workspaces for some reason :(
<brobostigon> :(
<BigRedS> I think it's just fat-finger syndrome
<brobostigon> ok.
 * suprengr is jealous... sitting here on standby. not a good swap for a geeknik :(
<BigRedS> ha, yeah. I'm sat in a noc waiting for stuff to go wrong
<brobostigon> BigRedS: maybe do some maintenence, to keep you mind from seizing up.
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I'm doing. Scripting maintenancey things
<brobostigon> :)
<BigRedS> All those 'I'll write that at some point' scripts that I've been building up for the past, er, ages
<brobostigon> ok.
<BigRedS> though I can't help but think that if things aren't breaking we're probably doing maintenance pretty good already :)
<brobostigon> yes :)
 * suprengr sends BigRedS virtual "something gone wrong" to stop boredom
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I did get to the point earlier where I 'broke' something to check the monitoring was working
<brobostigon> lol
<suprengr> +1
<suprengr> ha! F1 on TV... that'll do *very* nicely
<BigRedS> pft. I'm waiting for the motoGP :)
<brobostigon> :)
<BigRedS> watch the motogp 10-11pm ish, then at midnight I get to ride home. On empty roads :)
 * suprengr hums "2 wheels on my wagon"
<BigRedS> haha
<suprengr> [remembering good ol' motorbike days - but kneecaps can take only so much injuring]
<BigRedS> ah yeah. There's far too many people who used to ride bikes but kept breaking themselves...
<brobostigon> is charliebear.mooo.com working, someone just told me it wasnt.
<issyl0> Sorry to be missing the geeknic today, but to be honest I think I'd disappear into Platform 9 3/4 anyway.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: is for me
<issyl0> (Such is my Harry Potter obsession.)
<BigRedS> issyl0: nah, this is where all the cool kids are anyway :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: good, thank you, that means there is somethig wrong with the person who tried it.
<issyl0> :P
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, it's generally user error :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i gave a full irl aswell, http://charliebear*
<brobostigon> url*
<suprengr> PEBWAK [problem exist between *wall* and keyboard]
<BigRedS> haha
<brobostigon> BigRedS: could the issue have been that they were so slow with it loading, they thought it didnt work?
<BigRedS> brobostigon: it's possible, it took a few (~4) seconds for me
<BigRedS> seemed to be a few redirects to follow
<brobostigon> BigRedS: that is still within reasonable limits.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: only one redirect, from that url, to my vps's.
<BigRedS> ah, fair enough. odd media on other servers perhaps? The stauts bar showed a few different domains
<brobostigon> BigRedS: hmm, interesting.
<BigRedS> though I can't get it to do it again now
<BigRedS> maybe I imagined it
 * BigRedS looks suspiciously at his coffee
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> weird.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i saw no errors within apache's logs. so it must be user error. or maybe ipv4/ipv6 clash on users end.
 * suprengr notes some of those at geeknik are actually here on IRC... whasup folks.. too many laptops & not enough muffins :D
<penguin42> what we need is a muffin transport over irc
<suprengr> definitely +1
<brobostigon> suprengr: some might simply have screen + irssi on servers, and arent actually connected to them.
<BigRedS> yeah, I never log out of IRC
<BigRedS> but I do sleep sometimes, and occasionally I go outside, too :)
<brobostigon> :)
<suprengr> ...yeh but *some* [cough] were only a few mins ago "away"... that wall at 9 3/4 is more active than suspected
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> well, it's nice of them to try to include us, too :)
<suprengr> yeh... gotta nice warm cudley feeling now ;)
<suprengr> ..but no muffins!
 * BigRedS had muffins
<BigRedS> but I ate them. That was what they were for, in my defnece
<suprengr> BigRedS, thankyou for not saying "has" muffins
<BigRedS> oh, but they were the breakfasty sort, too, not cakey ones :(
<penguin42> talking of breakfast.....
<gord> its 1pm :P officially brunch
 * suprengr sets status on Pidgin to "Watching F1"... why is there no option on Xchat to do same?
<BigRedS> suprengr: /away [what you want your status to be]
<BigRedS> so /away watching the f1
<BigRedS> would do that in xchat
<suprengr> i *know* that... but not so much fun as a separate status ;)
<czajkows1i> hmm
<BigRedS> ahh
<suprengr> like "Watching MotoGP" for BigRedS - complete with a different 'grey out' colour  [giggles]
 * BigRedS _really_ wishes 'ls' was analogous to 'show tables' in mysql
<oracology> BigRedS: yeah ls really should be...i agree.
<czajkowski> hmm
<brobostigon> hello czajkowski
<czajkowski> rrslly want to unsuscribe from thr ml
 * BigRedS wonders if czajkowski is drunk
<brobostigon> pimms ?
<BigRedS> don't mind if I do!
<BigRedS> cheers!
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i curious as to if czajkowski was drunk as you sugegsted, if she had been drinking that or not?
<czajkowski> nooo phone
<brobostigon> :(
<suprengr> yup - BigRedS was right ;)
 * suprengr cowers in corner awaiting wrath
<brobostigon> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/112437 any ideas as  to this error i am getting from wine. please.
<gord> brobostigon, i couldn't get KSP to run in wine either =\
<brobostigon> gord: same error ?
<gord> can't remember, but i gave up and ran it in windows
<brobostigon> ohwell, thanks.
 * brobostigon doesnt have windows, so gives up.
<dwatkins> What is KSP?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: it is a game, where you build a space program.
<dwatkins> Oh that, yeah :)
<brobostigon> http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/about.php
<dwatkins> I was saddened to learn there is no linux nor Mac version.
<gord> i nearly managed a stable orbit yesterday. so close
<dwatkins> I'll have to wait until I can bootcamp.
<BigRedS> oh I was looking at that the other day. But didn't get as far as attempting an install
<suprengr> oooh.. reminds me - I have downloaded Proun. Any advice re needs when installing in Wine?
<gord> check wine hq first
<suprengr> gord, k
<suprengr> thanks
<popey> it works fine in wine
<popey> I am running it here at 1920x1080 using wine in natty
<suprengr> thank gawd for that... wine hq has nowt
<suprengr> cheers popey
<daubers> lo
<daubers> le sigh
<DJones> Afternoon daubers
<daubers> Someone needs to make something that makes an arm poke out of a machine and slap people
<daubers> Quiet this afternoon isn't it
<gord> to.. warm... to type
 * daubers throws a bucket of water over gord
<moreati> popey: Do you still have a wifi problem for OggCamp? Do you need any wifi routers?
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<penguin42> it is
<AlanBell> so the geeknic and Science Fiction exhibition was great fun today
<AlanBell> nice family friendly day out
<popey> sorry I couldn't make it
<AlanBell> but I was a bit disapointed at the low turnout
<AlanBell> totally not pointing fingers at people who couldn't make it, not my point
<AlanBell> what sort of events should we do that people will turn up to?
<AlanBell> should we make things *less* family friendly?
<BigRedS> moar pub!
<AlanBell> I don't quite understand why nobody who works at Millbank thought it would be a nice event to pop along to
<AlanBell> London is I assume a fairly reasonable place for people to get to, trains go there
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS got a train from the Netherlands to come to this event
<BigRedS> wow
<BigRedS> though most of Belgium is easier to get to from London than much of the north of England
<BigRedS> by train
<AlanBell> so we could do more "drink after work in the west end" type things
<AlanBell> or stuff out in the countryside
<AlanBell> or a meetup in a starbucks some afternoon during the week
<BigRedS> Personally, I'd like stuff at the weekend and in London, 'cause I'm normally in london at the weekend. I just couldn't do *this* one.
<suprengr> ...yeh - try getting to an 'event' when they sack a colleague and expect you to cover for him :(
<suprengr> sooo much annoyed at firm!
<AlanBell> indeed, totally not pointing fingers
<suprengr> [no finger pointing taken]
<suprengr> :D
<AlanBell> just want to know if we are doing something awkward for people
<AlanBell> there were 9 people today
<BigRedS> Well, it was close to ideal for me
<AlanBell> including smartphone loving toddlers
<czajkowski> AlanBell: still 9 is more than 1
<czajkowski> and we had a nice day out
<czajkowski> so all in all it was a good fun
<AlanBell> we did have a nice day out
<czajkowski> bar we forgot to take pics ;(
<AlanBell> and we went home via tower bridge and westminster bridge
<AlanBell> there are some pics
<no_name_brand> Hey guys, is it okay for me to ask a question here?
<suprengr> ...see =-  told you czajkowski  was tipsie!
<AlanBell> no_name_brand: sure, ask away
 * suprengr ...cowers
<no_name_brand> AlanBell: I was wondering if there's a Python library available that would let me read/write to virtual memory (RAM) on Ubuntu? Kind of like cytpes kernel32 wrappers for Windows.
<czajkowski> suprengr: no I wasnt!
<suprengr> czajkowski, ;0
<AlanBell> no_name_brand: read and write what sort of stuff?
<AlanBell> most python stuff is cross platform
<no_name_brand> AlanBell: I'd like to read/modify data at certain virtual memory addresses.
<no_name_brand> That's true, but ctypes' kernel32 wrapper is specifically for providing interaction between Windows dlls and Python.
<AlanBell> that sounds like something a bit dangerous to do!
<penguin42> no_name_brand: When you say 'virtual memory' what do you actually mean?
<AlanBell> do you want to go poking about into the address space of other processes?
<penguin42> no_name_brand: The address space of your current process or others?
<no_name_brand> AlanBell, penguin42 : yes, the address space of processes.
<penguin42> no_name_brand: The ptrace system call lets you do that, or you could script gdb!
<AlanBell> I see crashes ahead. . . but while there's moonlight and music . . .
<no_name_brand> penguin42: I'm not sure how scripting gdb could help me? Could you point me to something on that?
<penguin42> no_name_brand: gdb can attach to an arbitrary process and access it's memory - it uses ptrace to do it
<penguin42> no_name_brand: But please go back and explain what you're actually trying to do
<daubers> AlanBell: We could always arrange some kind of location rotating meetup
<no_name_brand> penguin42: ahh! So by the way, when I'm googling/discussing this stuff, I shouldn't use terms like "virtual memory" but more like "accessing address space"? What I'm trying to do is this: I have a program which uses my RAM to store certain pieces of data as it's working - I'd like to see what it's storing on RAM, search for specific values of data (and their corresponding addresses), and then choose to modify them if I'd lik
<no_name_brand> I used to do this a lot for cheating in games on Windows, but right now I'm doing it for work - someone has written a closed source program that I can't easily tie into :p
<no_name_brand> So I'm sort of familiar with what I'd do on Windows, but not on linux.
<AlanBell> yeah, virtual memory is more what we would call swap space
<AlanBell> DMA perhaps
<czajkowski> no_name_brand: you might find more help tbh in a #python channel if it's python related tbh
<penguin42> no_name_brand: So if it's the address space of one process then just use gdb to do that - it's scriptable in python
<czajkowski> nt trying to put you off being here
<AlanBell> direct memory access, memory mapped files, address space, peek and poke would all be terms to try
<czajkowski> but there would be a lot more python ddevelopers there to help you
<czajkowski> daubers: aye some of the lug folks meet up on a Thursday evening for drinks
<no_name_brand> penguin42: Great! I'll look into that then!
<no_name_brand> czajkowski: Well, yeah, penguin42 pretty much answered my question though, so no worries.
<czajkowski> daubers: we all know to poke each other on the thursday morning to pick the pub later that event
<czajkowski> no_name_brand: no worries
<moreati> no_name_brand: you can find a lot of info about a process in /prc/<pid>, including aa complete in memory image. No ide if you can write to it though
<AlanBell> so a weekday evening pub night might work
<daubers> I could probably do one of those a month, location depending :)
<czajkowski> aye sure we can give it a go
<czajkowski> cant hurt to try
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> so lets try that for a few months
<czajkowski> ideally a place that has reasonable priced food close to decent transportation and oddly enough free wifi works well
<AlanBell> in London, or maybe rotating round the M25? or further out?
<daubers> AlanBell: I'd do one in London and one outside somewhere
<daubers> Then rotate thatway and maybe rotate the somewhere
<czajkowski> well August is going to be busy
<AlanBell> do we care about trains or is parking a bigger deal?
<czajkowski> maybe late august
<czajkowski> the idea being to keep the events regular so people can make one and skip the next or vice versa
<daubers> Maybe do something like Basingstoke/London/Reading/London/Oxford/London or somesuch
<AlanBell> that sounds good
<AlanBell> Woking would work too
<daubers> Get less "Things never happen near me" complaints that way :)
<AlanBell> as a train hub
<daubers> yup
<BigRedS> don't train places normally also have parking?
<AlanBell> what other train hubs are there?
 * BigRedS rides a motorbike, I've never been that interested in either...
<czajkowski> guilford
<AlanBell> BigRedS: town centre pubs sometimes don't have car parks
<AlanBell> or anywhere I would want to park my car
<daubers> Bristol?
<BigRedS> yeah, I figured the stations were likely to
<daubers> Swindon
<AlanBell> BigRedS: ah, see what you mean
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to know if there's a python library for easy access to all the microblogging services? eg twitter, identi.ca, so on so fourth.
<AlanBell> Azelphur: is there a libgwibber or scriptable bit of it perhaps?
<AlanBell> !info libgwibber
<lubotu3> Package libgwibber does not exist in natty
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/gwibber/libgwibber
<Azelphur> AlanBell: not sure what language gwibber is written in tbh :P
<BigRedS> python
<Azelphur> oh fun
<BigRedS> everything's written in python these days; it's the new C
<BigRedS> except the cool things. Those are written in Perl
<AlanBell> it is the new BASIC actually
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
 * Azelphur looks around to try and figure out how it works
<AlanBell> but you don't have to  be embarrassed about it
<BigRedS> it's Linux' VB but actually a good programming language
<Azelphur> Indeed, Python is awesome now :)
<Azelphur> there isn't a lot you can't do with it
<suprengr> I have had some [small] experience in Perl scripting... is Pyhton actually close enough to be recognisable?
<Azelphur> lol if there is a library for python, it's not documented anywhere
<suprengr> *Python
<BigRedS> suprengr: lots of perly people find Python abhorrent for a while and then learn to love it
<BigRedS> I remain unconvinced, but I *like* line-noise and braces :)
<suprengr> that's what I call an honest answer - thanks
 * Azelphur hugs python
 * suprengr hugs Azelphur ... & [I bet]  worries Azelphur 
 * BigRedS tries to hug CPAN but it's just too big
<Azelphur> xD
<suprengr> ;D
<Azelphur> that said I do wish I could figure out what on earth is going on with gwibber. :(
<suprengr> ...& no I'm not!
<Azelphur> I want to write shiny things :(
<BigRedS> I've spent most of today knee-deep in a module. It's not very good for a getting-to-the-end-and-seeing-what-you-achieved sort of buzz :(
<suprengr> Azelphur, you mean http://tinyurl.com/3sdxldb ?
<Azelphur> suprengr: I mean with regards to libgwibber :P
<suprengr> oh
<MartijnVdS> o/ everone :-)
 * suprengr reckons Azelphur is now checking out Gwibber 3.1 ;)
 * Azelphur is talking to the folks in #gwibber and found out it has a dbus interface which does what I want
<Azelphur> :P
<suprengr> o/ MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> o/ MartijnVdS great to see you today
<MartijnVdS> alanbell: did the kids ever end up trying the spread? :-)
<AlanBell> they did, and they like it
<AlanBell> little boy will try it tomorrow
<daubers> o/
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Was excellent to put a face to a name
<daubers> AlanBell, MartijnVd, czajkowski http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/5971292906/in/photostream :)
<czajkowski> daubers: :)
<daubers> Not taken the ones off my phone yet
<suprengr> So there I am - logged into Launchpad... can I find a way to create Wiki page - nah!
<czajkowski> suprengr: are you on wiki.ubuntu.com by any chance
<suprengr> czajkowski, in launchpad homepage for self (https://launchpad.net/~suprengr). looked in wiki.ubuntu.com  tna
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/suprengr
<AlanBell> see the "create new empty page" link
<czajkowski> suprengr: yes but you dont create a wiki page on lp......
<suprengr> AlanBell, cheers
<czajkowski> suprengr: yes but you dont create a wiki page on lp......
<suprengr> [I was confused simply because there used to be in launchpad... now gone]
<suprengr> *a link in...
<czajkowski> why are you speaking in [ ]  brackets
<AlanBell> {braces are more fun}
<suprengr> [because sometimes that's how how I like to]  :D
<suprengr> {}
<czajkowski> suprengr: were you on irc about a year ago with a different nick with john in it
<suprengr> czajkowski, most definitely not guiltyt... no
<czajkowski> ok
<suprengr> unless, of course, this 'john' has a Â£1.000.000 waiting to be collected!
<suprengr> just went to  "create new empty page" on Ubuntu Wiki & got: "You are not allowed to edit this page. " Now that's what I call an insult!
<AlanBell> are you logged into the wiki?
<suprengr> AlanBell, i *was* but it seems to be acting as if I'm not... time to close browser & start again methinks...
<suprengr> yea gads that was a fight!  got there at last - it put put up a fight but suprengr  won in the end - on wiki page ready to edit ... hardly seems worth the effort after that!
<justinBUJITSUBRO> hello from belize i am havaing a real problem ( ihave an infantile understanding of ubuntu) i hope somone can help
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> anyone recocnize this i ched foroms but i didnot understand them
<daubers> justinBUJITSUBRO: can you pastebin the entire output please?
<daubers> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<errordeveloper> justinBUJITSUBRO: certainly that's a problem with you network connection set-up
<justinBUJITSUBRO> GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net lucid Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 332E82B0E94D1E5CGPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net karmic Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 332E82B0E94D1E5CGPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net lucid Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public ke
<justinBUJITSUBRO> y is not available: NO_PUBKEY D0AFF96872D340A3Failed to fetch http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf/dists/dapper/Release.gpg  Something wicked happened resolving 'packages.freecontrib.org:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf/dists/dapper/free/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving 'packages.freecontrib.org:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf/dists/dapper/non-free/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Could not connect to packages.freecontrib.org:80 (34.52.53.34). - connect (110: Connection timed out)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/Release.gpg  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/restricted/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/universe/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/multiverse/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/Release.gpg  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<Azelphur> !pastebin | justinBUJITSUBRO
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/main/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<lubotu3> justinBUJITSUBRO: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/restricted/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<Azelphur> lol
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/universe/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<czajkowski> toodles/msg chanserv op #ubuntu-uk
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/multiverse/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/Release.gpg  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/main/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/restricted/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/universe/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/multiverse/i18n/Translation-en_GB.bz2  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<czajkowski> grrrrr
<Azelphur> don't think a kick was required for that, was just user error :)
<Azelphur> +b for 10 seconds would have fixed it :p
<czajkowski> Azelphur: couldnt stop him pasting
<czajkowski> Azelphur: well i'm kinda in the middle of my dinner
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<czajkowski> and nobody else around
<czajkowski> less lecturing :)
<czajkowski> thanks
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/main/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/universe/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<czajkowski> justinBUJITSUBRO: will you stop s[pamming please
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/multiverse/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<czajkowski> justinBUJITSUBRO: stop it
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/restricted/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/main/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/universe/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/multiverse/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<errordeveloper> justinBUJITSUBRO: dude, stop flooding the channel!
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/restricted/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<suprengr> go for it czajkowski
<czajkowski> Azelphur: still happy
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<Azelphur> +b is still all that's required
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/main/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/universe/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<Azelphur> the only reason it's continuing is because of sendq :)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-proposed/multiverse/source/Sources.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<DJones> czajkowski: Set a quiet
<czajkowski> justinBUJITSUBRO: will you pelase stop it
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-backports/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-backports/restricted/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Something wicked happened resolving '....archive.ubuntu.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<czajkowski> justinBUJITSUBRO: please stop pasting that
<czajkowski> it's not helpful
<czajkowski> and you are spamming the channel
<czajkowski> justinBUJITSUBRO: I shall unmute the channel, please do not paste that again
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf/dists/dapper/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Unable to connect to packages.freecontrib.org:http:
<Azelphur> czajkowski: he isn't actually doing anything, this is basic IRC stuff, when you send a large paste, the IRC network slows it right down as a flood limitation thing, he's already sent those messages, the network is relaying them slowly, there's absolutely nothing he can do to stop it.
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Failed to fetch http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf/dists/dapper/non-free/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Unable to connect to packages.freecontrib.org:http:
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<justinBUJITSUBRO> that is the enier list or "output " i thnik
<justinBUJITSUBRO> wahoo that was fun never been kicked b4 by the way wasnt spaming an i said that i have an infintel understandtin
<Azelphur> there you go, see?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i closed out several thing just now hope it helped
<justinBUJITSUBRO>  by the way i am in belize the isp suck huge
<Azelphur> all you need to do in situations like that is just +b for a few minutes until the network has finished staggering the paste, hehe
<czajkowski> Azelphur: next time call ops so
<czajkowski> i did what i knew
<czajkowski> ok
<justinBUJITSUBRO> xchat url scraper waht ever the hell that is sitll is up doint know how to get ride of it
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO: yea, it's stopped now, use www.pastebin.com for large pastes in future :)
<Azelphur> czajkowski: np, just so you know for next time :D
<czajkowski> Azelphur: fine
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO: that's a problem with your internet connection though, it's saying that it can't resolve the domains
<errordeveloper> there should be an xchat plugin to redirect any pastes to a pastebin site
<justinBUJITSUBRO> did any one see waht i was talking a bout w. my problem somone said is was a ntwork prblem
<Azelphur> it's highly likely your DNS server, or entire internet connection is down
<errordeveloper> justinBUJITSUBRO: oh god, sure we did
<justinBUJITSUBRO> lol
<Azelphur> or that your DNS server is blocking that domain
<justinBUJITSUBRO> sorry
<errordeveloper> justinBUJITSUBRO: and I gave you one suggestion already
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok i chech hist. of chat
<errordeveloper> justinBUJITSUBRO: ping  91.189.88.40
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok yea yousai network set up
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok soory but how do i ping?
<errordeveloper> and don't even try to paste any ping output, for god sake, lol.
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok cool i wont
<Azelphur> lol
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i got the error message after trying to reload synaptic never really seen it were it couldnt find host name
<justinBUJITSUBRO> will you tell me how to " ping  91.189.88.40" please
<BigRedS> justinBUJITSUBRO: open a terminal
<BigRedS> and type
<BigRedS> ping -c 5 91.189.88.40
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok will do
<BigRedS> It'll 'ping' 5 times, then produce some statistics, and give you your prompt back
 * BigRedS wanders off, so I'm afraid whoever told you to do that will have to tell you what to do with the output, sorry
<justinBUJITSUBRO> 5 transmitted 5 recived
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok thanks
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO: sudo apt-get install pastebinit && dig packages.freecontrib.org | pastebinit
<Azelphur> run that in a terminal and give me the paste.ubuntu.com link it gives you :)
<Azelphur> thinking sanely, I bet that won't work because you can't contact the server to install pastebinit
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> !private | justinBUJITSUBRO
<lubotu3> justinBUJITSUBRO: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok i just tried what azelphur just said to me
<justinBUJITSUBRO> and this is what i got
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
<Azelphur> close synaptic package manager or the update tool
<Azelphur> or anything else that might be open like that
<justinBUJITSUBRO> now i am really lost i have never had this problem
<justinBUJITSUBRO> haha i told you i was dumb that i closed synaptic
<Azelphur> :)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> its working
<daubers> woot, nslu2+cups == printer working on wifes win xp machine :)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok i belive it is don
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Setting up pastebinit (1.1-1) ...
<justinBUJITSUBRO> http://pastebin.com/aE2aqDE
<justinBUJITSUBRO> that the last lines
<justinBUJITSUBRO> what to do now?
<popey> thats not a valid pastebin id
<popey> probably blocked due to it containing lots of URLs
<popey> so it looks like spam
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Setting up pastebinit (1.1-1) ...
<justinBUJITSUBRO> http://pastebin.com/aE2aqDE9
<justinBUJITSUBRO>  
<justinBUJITSUBRO> sorry i mised the 9 at the end
<justinBUJITSUBRO> is that better?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> or still a thing bad
<popey> uhm
<popey> your sources list has packages.freecontrib.org
<popey> should it not be package.freecontrib.org ?
<popey> (no s)
<BigRedS> their site says it should have the s. I think
<popey> ok
<popey> its their site thats broken then
<BigRedS> Oh wait, that's a post from 2006
<popey> why is someone using that url anyway?
<popey> justinBUJITSUBRO: can you "pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list" please?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> not real shure of what has happend  all iknow is that when i hit reload on synaptic i got a message sataing for almost all my sources saying that the program count find host name
<justinBUJITSUBRO> sorry popey how do i do that?
<popey> type the command in a terminal
<popey> pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok will do
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i dont know if that worked but i think so
<justinBUJITSUBRO> it gave me this ..http://pastebin.com/JdZ8XJvj
<popey> deb http://....archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-security main restricted universe multiverse
<popey> that looks broken
<popey> deb-src http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf dapper free non-free
<popey> should not be there
<BigRedS> #
<BigRedS> #
<popey> you're on Ubuntu 10.04 right?
<BigRedS> oop
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yes sir
<Azelphur> haha http://....
<Azelphur> that's broked o.O
<justinBUJITSUBRO> iam w8ing to upgrade just dont know how
<popey> ok, one moment
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i think i have to w8 till the next lts version
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO: system > administration > software sources > updates > change the dropdown box at the bottom to show normal releases :)
<popey> hang on Azelphur
<popey> lets get his sources fixed first
<Azelphur> but you will need to fix your sources.list first before updating
<Azelphur> yep :P
<popey> which I am doing right now
<Azelphur> so listen to popey then do that in summary lol
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok
<justinBUJITSUBRO> but dont i have to w8 till 2013 whent the next lts comes out?
<popey> next LTS is April 2012
<popey> right, I've tidied up your sources.list...
<justinBUJITSUBRO> oh ok sorry
<popey> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=YzX1VEQA
<popey> so what I would do is the following commands:-
<popey> sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list ~/sources.list.backup
<popey> exactly like that
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok il doit
<popey> let me know when done and I'll give the next command
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yes sir i am ready for the next one
<popey> wget http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=YzX1VEQA -O ~/sources.list.new
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok..
<justinBUJITSUBRO> 2011-07-24 14:20:38 (2.74 MB/s) - `/home/justin/sources.list.new' saved [1298]
<popey> excellent
<popey> next line:-
<justinBUJITSUBRO> thats waht i got
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok
<popey> sudo cp ~/sources.list.new /etc/apt/sources.list
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok i did the sudo cp
<popey> ok
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> shouldn't error
<popey> be right back
<daubers> bah nslu2 is too slow for a postcript printer server :(
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok
 * daubers repurposes the revo
<StevenR> daubers: I'm wondering about sorting my parents out with a revo for a myth box
<justinBUJITSUBRO> what is the protocol for pasteing large out puts ?
<popey> justinBUJITSUBRO: apt-get update | pastebinit
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok
<justinBUJITSUBRO> E: Unable to lock the list directory
<justinBUJITSUBRO> You are trying to send an empty document, exiting.
<popey> ah sorry
<popey> sudo apt-get update | pastebinit
<justinBUJITSUBRO> tried that too and got ..justin@Jah-love:~$ sudo You are trying to send an empty document, exiting.
<popey> odd, works here
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i just did it by typing and it seems to work now
<justinBUJITSUBRO> here we go...http://pastebin.com/cRBXWxZY
<daubers> stupid routers
<popey> justinBUJITSUBRO: looks better
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok yes it does thatnks in major part to you all i did was copy and past when i do synaptic i get 3 GPG errors
<justinBUJITSUBRO> one for medi buntu and 3 for ppa launchpad lucid
<justinBUJITSUBRO> 2 for ppa sorry
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i am not shure if this is a widely known fact but here in belize things like skype is block
<justinBUJITSUBRO> also i cant get certain content like radio stations cause "sorry this content is not avaiable in your area due to reguatory ristriction"
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i got that form "player.streamtheworld.com/_players/citadel/?sid=3003&nid"
<justinBUJITSUBRO> thank you to those that have helped me today "popey"  "BigRedS" and "Azelphur"
<Azelphur> yw :)
<BigRedS> er, no probs :)
<Azelphur> oh in other news, I got another screen, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/July%202011/IMG_20110724_215511.jpg
<Azelphur> the little keypad on the left has a screen too :-)
<BigRedS> Surely you're looking at the game, not the keyboard? :)
<Azelphur> BigRedS: yea, the extra buttons are handy :)
<exobuzz> going to install ubuntu on my mothers pc. had enough of removing all the malware.
<exobuzz> also giving her unity as a punishment (j/k)
<BigRedS> haha
<WorMzy> That poor woman
<WorMzy> :P
<exobuzz> ;-)
<suprengr> time for bed said Zebedee... cheers & goodnight to all
<exobuzz> the only get out clause she has depends on her printer model. if it isnt well supported, i might reconsider
<AlanBell> printers tend to be quite well supported
<AlanBell> bits of some multi-functional devices are the weak point
<exobuzz> yeh
<exobuzz> although she has a canon pixma and they can be annoying from past experience
<exobuzz> seems there is a driver. well im not going to try and clean her vista install again anyway, so if it doesnt work, ill install windows later on if needed
<Guest40878> jo
<Guest40878> hi
<Guest40878> any having trouble with a magic trackpad
<Guest40878> ?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-16
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yes. Treat the domain as a simple string, if it matches what's in ServerName or ServerAlias for a vhost, that's what gets served
<AlanBell> morning all
<livingdaylight> GM
<AlanBell> hi you-siry
<AlanBell> wonder how many Olympics visitors will pop in to the channel :)
 * livingdaylight wishes he could airlift himself out and away from jubeelympics to another far far away planet
<christel> Gooooooood morning!
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> hi folks
<mattt> morning morning
<christel> it is wonderful and summery ...
<mattt> this weather is getting depressing :(
<daubers> christel: But my new conservatory roof now stops the watter getting in!
<daubers> Last night was a good test :)
<dwatkins> I need to get the roof looked-at, water comes in sometimes when it rains hard.
<daubers> dwatkins: Water came into ours when it rained lightly :(
<mattt> i need to clean my gutters, they're a mess
<christel> daubers: i am very glad to hear that, i hate it when water gets in through the roof!
<daubers> christel: Yeah, it's a pain
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> hello pretty girl :)
<diplo> Morningall
 * diplo really must work out what is wrong with the space bar...
<daubers> diplo: Hit it harder
<diplo> yeah i forget early in the mornings
<diplo> Really should have complained when i first got it
<diplo> but...
<christel> ikonia \o/
<Laney> irssi q: does /ignore -except work with -network?
<Laney> I want to ignore JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS NICKS from everything except bitlbee
<czajkowski> Laney: I usually do the command /ignore joins parts quits nicks for each channel
<Laney> I have been doing that, but I think I should just give up and have it anywhere
<czajkowski> it's in my irssi config file now
<czajkowski> so any nw channel I add I just do the command once, save the irssi screen and it's remembered
 * czajkowski really needs to spring clean her irssi config file out badly 
<czajkowski> has a lot of old servers in there
<Laney> (looks like it does not)
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> o/ bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> Hi AlanBell :)
<dwatkins> daubers: eek :( I had water dripping in due to a tile that had been dislodged, it's been repaired for now, but needs properly sorting out by a trained professional
<christel> bigcalm_laptop :D
 * bigcalm_laptop tickles christel :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Nice to see we have proper weather once again
<christel> haha
<bigcalm_laptop> None of that silly sun stuff for us today
<christel> indeed :P
<MartijnVdS> Finally getting rid of The Sun then?
<AlanBell> just been looking at the long range forecast for the BBQ on the 28th, looks like there is a reasonable chance it might be OK again by then
<jussi> MartijnVdS: that would be the day...
<bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: I really hope you get some good weather for it :)
<christel> you can hope all you want, i am confident it will be a very wet event!
<bigcalm_laptop> Water pistols!
<AlanBell> paddling pool!
<christel> \o/
<Monotoko> morning all
<czajkowski> BBQ
<czajkowski> \o/
<czajkowski> |
<czajkowski> bah
<christel> a one-legged czajkowski! no wonder you didn't make it on saturday
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> nothing is keepig me from the BBQ
<czajkowski> so I had better not get ill again
<christel> hehe
<czajkowski> plus jon wants to go play with the chickens
<christel> awww
<AlanBell> yay
<christel> i've never played with AlanBell's chickens :(
<AlanBell> well they will be out and about at the BBQ I expect
<AlanBell> and you can probably take some eggs home
<AlanBell> wonder if you can bbq eggs somehow
<diplo> They are the meat for the festivitys?
<diplo> Just stick a frying pan on the bbq AlanBell
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, can do, and I have a side burner thing for frying stuff actually
 * AlanBell cheats and uses gas
<diplo> Nooo
<diplo> :)
<diplo> I actually have a gas bbq, but rarely ever use it, well I can't for the last year as the last person I lent it to has still not returned it.
<christel> hrmm.. i suspect you can, i've had grilled quails eggs (wrapped in pancetta) mmm
<christel> though i wonder if they were pre-boiled before grilling
<diplo> I do pre-cook quite a lot of stuff for BBQ's
<diplo> chicken especially
<bigcalm_laptop> Would it be wrong to have chicken at the BBQ?
<christel> only if it is the one that died yesterday
<bigcalm_laptop> :(
<christel> sorry, tasteless :x
<AlanBell> christel: probably would be a bit tasteless by the 28th, certainly
<bigcalm_laptop> Heh
<AlanBell> bigcalm_laptop: cooking chicken is fine, as long as my three stay raw
<gord> how about taunting the live chickens with the cooked chicken?
<christel> haha
<AlanBell> gord: http://twitpic.com/1qdq0f
<bigcalm_laptop> LOL
<gord> i saw a horror movie like that once
<AlanBell> anyone (perhaps dogmatic69) know any good guides on creating mysql indexes to fix slow queries?
<AlanBell> I can do an explain select, I see what needs fixing, but I don't really know what to fix
<oimon> any libreoffice dudes can tell me how to disable autocomplete in a cell in calc?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1094550/ is what I am working on, a select statement that takes 7.65 seconds to run
<bigcalm_laptop> Time for us to check out
<bigcalm_laptop> My wallet is not looking forward to this bit
<christel> hehe
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: the basics is index on the join fields and then conditions
<dogmatic69> I am on the way out now, will be back in a few hours
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Twinkletoes> brobostigon: Morning ;)
<brobostigon> morning Twinkletoes :)
<czajkowski> anyone else coming to http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/events/55354582/
<you-siry> hii
<brobostigon> BigRedS: ok, thank you, good point,
<popey> czajkowski, odd that it doesn't show location
<czajkowski> popey: it does when you register
<czajkowski> have just had this exact coversation with Zee Fab
<popey> yes, I get that
<popey> still odd
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> guess mark wants people to sign up
<davmor2> popey: nice video
<popey> thanks davmor2
<czajkowski> aye lotta hits on the video!
<davmor2> popey: I thought that you missed a load then realised that they were all pretty much covered by the key map overlay so stood corrected :D
<popey> i did miss some stuff
<popey> noticed myself that I missed Super+1
<popey> etc
<davmor2> popey: yeah but again that is all pretty clear on the keymap that you did talk about
<davmor2> popey: infact my only criticism is that you kept talking about pressing the alt button, but didn't cover the difference between tapping for hud and holding for menus etc, but that was really digging hard to find a fault :)
<popey> heh :)
<czajkowski> popey: I didnt know you could min and max the dash so thanks
<czajkowski> it was a very useful video
<davmor2> it's a cool vid
<popey> a few people have mentioned they've learned styff
<popey> *stuff
<popey> which is basically the goal
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod morning
<Dave2> A morning of prodding? Sounds unpleasant.
<davmor2> Dave2: it's just how I say morning to czajkowski
<davmor2> popey: how's the head anyhow?
<popey> perfick
<davmor2> popey: bigcalm obviously took a week off to recover :)
<popey> hah
<christel> haha
<daubers> Anybody mind me spamming a job posting here?
<daubers> (or link too)
<czajkowski> daubers: nope
<czajkowski> 19 weeks of odd desktop back grounds :) https://plus.google.com/photos/102921374554385564572/albums/5730819334465556225
<daubers> http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=3390094 <- Junior Software Engineer :) Mostly python
<MartijnVdS> hmm python
<The_Fred> hello
<daubers> MartijnVdS: \o/ python
<daubers> (itym)
 * popey tickles james_w with a stick
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache search pkgme
<popey> pkgme - =====
<james_w> oi!
<popey> that could probably be better formatted
<james_w> indeed
 * james_w blames dholbach
<popey> excellent
<The_Fred> Hey guys - any tips on how to handle a FUD campain against a project?
<davmor2> The_Fred: Laugh and move on
<Laney> talk to directhex about that kind of thing
 * Laney giggles
<directhex> okay, first, grab your baseball bat, hammer, and box of nails
<The_Fred> check
<directhex> good long nails. nine inch is best
<The_Fred> also check
<The_Fred> and then find a big oak tree to nail them to it eh?
<The_Fred> I worked bloody hard on my project, and its taking off well, but now it seems ive attracted the wrong sort of attention
<directhex> then put them down, and calmly pretend that you don't care about the FUD, because the CoC says you can't call those behind it anything accurate
<directhex> out of interest, what's the project?
<The_Fred> Speech input for ubuntu
<directhex> using which framework?
<The_Fred> java and python
<The_Fred> http://ubuntuspeechinput.zymichost.com/
<directhex> huh. and what kind of FUD is happening?
<The_Fred> All my efforts of promotion across lots of various sites are being commented as complicated and non functional
<The_Fred> its a template response
<The_Fred> across around 12 sites so far - the exact same comments time and time again, and then the forum was filled with spam hate posts
<The_Fred> so i had to rebuild it twice during the weekend
<directhex> hm. the competition, perhaps?
<The_Fred> yea, i guess... but what commercial effort is there in speech recognition for ubuntu? I did my homework and found none!
<The_Fred> there are open source projects... but i dont think they would act like that
<The_Fred> ( i hope)
<directhex> i guess i'm not sure what to suggest in this situation. sounds pretty coordinated
<The_Fred> Ill just weather it out and see what happens, the site hoster is keeping their own logs because a breif DDoS was attempted on the site
<The_Fred> thanks anyhow directhex
<davmor2> The_Fred: Ah I can see you used the word Ubuntu but it's for android that will confuse the FUDers ;)
<The_Fred> well, its a dual part system, the app does the actual speech recognition, and the desktop python code does the typing
<ormiret> The_Fred: do you have plans to add security to the comms to the desktop? Currently looks scarily easy for anyone to send anything they like into it.
<The_Fred> perhaps its *because* both names are used thats waved a red flag at someone
<davmor2> The_Fred: then I wonder if what is happening is the users are installing the Android bit and not the Ubuntu bit then I assume it does nothing right?
<The_Fred> ormiret, yes - security is a major concern - that last thing i want is to intoduce an hole
<The_Fred> The next update will take steps to address that
<The_Fred> but thats another reason why I want to keep the desktop code open
<The_Fred> This will turn into a big project fast, and the desktop code will be more than i can handle alone
<The_Fred> Id prefer to concentrate on the android work, which is my bread and butter
<ormiret> personally I'd hand off the security stuff to SSH since what you want to do is run xdotool on the desktop. Saves writing anything new for the desktop side.
<The_Fred> ormiret, thanks, thats excellent advice
<The_Fred> davmor2, currently I email either the .deb or python code to the users after they have installed it, and the numbers tally,so I dont think its the actual users being critical
<The_Fred> davmor2, plus, i get feedback direct from the app from the users, and so far its been very encouraging
<The_Fred> :)
<davmor2> The_Fred: so basically it's not the users reporting the fud so it is just wallies (the polite version remembering the channel we are on)
<The_Fred> davmor2, yes - i think that if the users had any omplaints then the comments on Google play and the feedback via the app would let me know
<The_Fred> davmor2, so, yes, its just the wallies
 * The_Fred goes to brush up on SSH
<AlanBell> The_Fred: is the recognition done on the phone, or in the googleplex?
<The_Fred> that depends on the phone,older models (before 4.0) will use the googleplex, newer devices with jellybean have it on board
<AlanBell> interesting, thanks
<andylockran> any recommendations for invoicing software on ubuntu?  Server or Desktop
<The_Fred> andylockran, is this of any use? http://www.gnucash.org/
<Laney> Adobe Flash Player was blocked because it is out of date
<Laney> :(
<Daviey> Laney: press "just this once" iirc
<Laney> I think there actually is an update
<Daviey> Yeah, but you can make it work 'just this once' without updating
<Laney> ye
<Laney> now I've forgotten what I wanted to look at
<Laney> guess that's a solution
<livingdaylight>  Hi, I would like to add Gnote to startup applications. However, I don't know what to put in the 'command' dialog. Help, anyone?
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: 'gnote'?
<livingdaylight> yes
<BigRedS> if you do alt-f2, type gnote adn then hit enter does that start gnote?
<BigRedS> if so, then 'gnote' is what you need to put in
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, as simple as?! Cheers. I thought I had to figure out the long path /usr/bin bla /bla
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: you can get that with 'which' in a command prmpt if you do ever need it
<BigRedS> type    which gnote   and it'll tell you where it is
<livingdaylight> sweet. that's really useful - thanks.
<andylockran> The_Fred: thanks
<Guest72057> Hi
<dogmatic69> I stumbled upon snmp (i think its called) due to being the only monitoring available on my nas. coupled with cacti its pretty cool
<dogmatic69> I like that its a standardised format, not some proprietary or custom format of other monitoring apps
<MartijnVdS> snmp is still full of proprietary .. things :)
<daubers> also, it's very definatley not "simple"
<MartijnVdS> but it's in the name!
<dogmatic69> like tcp/ip or http
<daubers> Try and code something that uses snmp monitoring
<MartijnVdS> and traps
<daubers> When you've finished vomiting, you'll agree
<MartijnVdS> The nightmares! The nightmares!
<dogmatic69> I doubt there are many protocols that are "pretty"
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: HTTP, SMTP are "pretty"
<dogmatic69> Ive written php libs for pop / smtp
<MartijnVdS> So is POP3, FTP
<dogmatic69> o.o
<daubers> dogmatic69: I quite like MQTT... MQTT-S is pretty nice too
<daubers> bit less vomit worthy
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: SMTP is not my idea of pretty
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: but it's a simple text protocol
<dogmatic69> especially when you start doing multi part mimes
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: compared to snmp it _very_ pretty
<MartijnVdS> that's MIME being ugly :) Nothing to do with smtp
<dogmatic69> I guess
<dogmatic69> the hand shake bits are ok
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: I guess it has a bit to do with the amount of different data and formats it carries
<dogmatic69> daubers: MQTT looks like something I need actually
<daubers> dogmatic69: I'm trying to impliment mqtt-s over xbee at the moment
<daubers> bit of a challenge
<dogmatic69> daubers: on arduino?
<eee444> hi, could someone hwlp me get my dwl650 to work with aircrack?
<czajkowski> eee444: you've been asked not to keep asking the same question in multiple channels
<ikonia> nice job on spamming another two after being asked and told not to
<bigcalm_laptop> Hello from Worcester!
<dwatkins> Hello from Midlothian!
<brobostigon> hello form north oxfordshire.
<brobostigon> from*
<christel> hello from wet surrey!
<brobostigon> lol
<gord> hey bigcalm_laptop http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUu1yKLEhaBGrdvIrtk5epAw&v=8DhXod6nLcU&feature=player_detailpage#t=21s :)
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: yay
<dwatkins> I wish my Quickcam driver would compile, then I could do night and day timelapses.
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: Boo!
<AlanBell> ali1234: my C920 just arrived
<davmor2> AlanBell: is like a wee timorous beasty with big pointy teeth?
<ali1234> cool.
<SuperEngineer> Glad to see that "it" is *still* out - was having nightmares all night in case "it" had been recalled to the Adams Family!  well done channel header for reassuring me each time I log on ;)
<AlanBell> davmor2: not a mouse, webcam thing
 * dwatkins notes with a grin that launchpad uses Japanese (and therefore ASCII-sortable) date formats
<yousiry> hello
<silner> hello
<zleap> hello
<zleap> hmm,  i can't load thunderbird up for some reason
<dogmatic69> zleap: try sudo killall thunderbird and then open again
<yousiry> just came to london today for olympics ^_^
<ali1234> are you competing?
<yousiry> yes^_^
<yousiry> http://s18.postimage.org/4dbgeeyk7/Ax4_Gk0_VCMAEt21_H.jpg
<yousiry> here is view from our house here
<yousiry> i think we have best view
<ali1234> cool
<popey> that is a nice view
<ali1234> there's the rollercoaster thing
<dogmatic69> lol
<ali1234> hmm i hate refactoring code
<ali1234> but it has to be done
<dogmatic69> lol http://www.entermyworld.com/rich/drex/volo/dvolob.jpg
<popey> is this in your racer game thing ali1234 ?
<dogmatic69> ali1234: refactoring > writing new
<ali1234> what, the rollercoaster?
<ali1234> or the refactoring?
<ali1234> i have to rewrite the procedural geometry code so that it is editable
<ali1234> which means changing the way the classes work
<popey> dogmatic69, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2124408/Pimp-Sinclair-C5-Plumber-turns-electric-wheeler-40-mph-monster-truck.html
<popey> ali1234, what's your game written in?
<ali1234> C++
<dogmatic69> popey: lol
<dogmatic69> popey: I like your new pc btw.
<popey> heh
<popey> been looking for one for ages
<dogmatic69> whats it running?
<popey> uhm
<popey> its a VT105, it's entirely dumb
<dogmatic69> ah
<AlanBell> oh you got one!
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> does it work?
<popey> https://plus.google.com/photos/109365858706205035322/albums/5765697140058194497/5765697142232113634
<popey> yes
<popey> couple of broken keys
<AlanBell> plugged it into anything yet?
<dogmatic69> popey: not sure if you have / want  / need this, http://manx.classiccmp.org/details.php/1,18269
<popey> oh, handy
<popey> ta
<popey> AlanBell, not got it yet
<dogmatic69> np, just looking for some stats on it and that popped up
<AlanBell> oh, ok I look forward to you tweeting from it popey
<popey> assuming I can get it talking to anything
<dogmatic69> "control of the terminal is via a detachable keyboard that operates much like a typewriter"
<dogmatic69> popey: seems like its mainly for graphing?
<AlanBell> I guess it plugs in to a USB serial adapter or something
<popey> well, the "EIA communications connector" I hope is serial :)
<popey> 4.4.1 implies it is
<popey> RS-232-C
<yousiry> im back ^_^
<popey> "The keyboard keys are the only moving parts of the terminal and require no preventive maintenance by the owner"
<popey> supports max 19.2K baud
<popey> be fun to do some graphing on it
<yousiry> are you coming to see olympics?
<ali1234> ugh... what's the difference between int *foo and int &foo again?
<popey> yousiry, nope
<Azelphur> one is preceded by an asterisk while the other is preceded by an ampersand?
 * Azelphur runs
<penguin42> ali1234: Not much
<penguin42> ali1234: You can assign to an &foo with out the &
<ali1234> it's about const isn't it?
<penguin42> ali1234: e.g.   int x(int &foo) { foo=5; }    x(y)    causes y to be changed
<penguin42> ali1234: No, not const - it's a reference
<penguin42> ali1234: as opposed to int x(int *foo) { *foo =5; }  x(&y)  causes y to be changed
<ali1234> yeah but const int *foo -> you can't change what it points to
<ali1234> const int &foo -> you can't change the value
<penguin42> oh, I'd have to think about that
<ali1234> :(
<Laney> references are like fixed pointers
<dogmatic69> popey: Project 1) minecraft server monitor / graphing
<ali1234> it's usually about this time that i make everything public
<popey> heh
<penguin42> there are two separate places you can put the const with a const pointer, one for the pointer and one for the value
<ali1234> as usual, i know what i need to do but cannot resolve it in the twisty world of object oriented design
<christel> mmmhomemade pizza o clock!
<penguin42> ali1234: So, const int * foo, is a pointer to a const int - so you can't change the value
 * penguin42 liked cdecl
<ali1234> i was going to say C++ obviously works for ogre but then i remembered it doesn't you can't extend any of the ogre classes easily
<ali1234> because you have to use factories for everything and the factories dont see your extended classes
 * AlanBell sorts out a cone of clean
<popey> hah
<christel> AlanBell is such a good housewife! always cleaning and stuff!
<yousiry> :P
<AlanBell> the cone of clean is a zero sum game
<ali1234> ok stage 1 of the refactoring went okish. i moved all the geodisic calculation into a separate class that can be recalculated at will
<Azelphur> ali1234: do you know if it would be possible to have an induction charger powered by a battery? :p
<ali1234> anything is possible
<Azelphur> science. \o/
<ali1234> i doubt it will be efficient though
<Azelphur> yea, not too much aiming for efficient
<Azelphur> was thinking "coat pocket phone charger"
<The_Fred> ali1234, no its not: you cant ride a snail to the sun :P
<ali1234> yes you can
<Azelphur> you can with science
<The_Fred> how?
<ali1234> why i did it only last week
<The_Fred> lool
<The_Fred> so- how did you get back?
<Azelphur> http://starboard.flowtheory.net/static/img/stand-back-try-science.png
<Azelphur> \o/
<The_Fred> hehe going to try science....lol not I've got an hypothesis to examine
<popey> \o/ trublr working
<ali1234> photographic evidence http://imagebin.org/221014
<popey> you need a better camera
<ali1234> "space dust"
<popey> also lies, that person is smiling, can't possibly be grumpy pants ali1234
<ali1234> it gets on the lens
<yousiry> i am back
<yousiry> just had mcdonalds ^_^
<yousiry> we have mcdonalds in olympic village
<popey> sorry about that
<yousiry> not very healthy^_^
<popey> did you pay with visa?
<The_Fred> Oh - thats cool: python parallel port is in the repo's
<yousiry> no payment popey ^_^
<yousiry> free for atheletes
<popey> lol
<popey> are there other eateries?
<yousiry> but not so healthy  ^_^
<yousiry> yes there is more food
<yousiry> and many game rooms
<The_Fred> Bloaties Pizza Hog?
<The_Fred> sorry - i mean pizza hut.
<yousiry> i didnt see everything yet
<yousiry> we just came today
<AlanBell> what is your event yousiry?
<yousiry> table tennis
 * AlanBell is a paralympic gamesmaker
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you mean you like arguing on the internet?
<popey> yousiry, where'd you travel from?
<AlanBell> yes!
<yousiry> what it means AlanBell?
<yousiry> popey china
<popey> golly
<yousiry> AlanBell what it means gamesmaker?
<ali1234> argh i totally forgot what i was doing now and the code doesn't build :(
<yousiry> for me it is first olympics popey
<AlanBell> yousiry: one of the volunteers in the purple uniform
<yousiry> ooo
<yousiry> in village?
<The_Fred> i see fast food in this perspective : http://zim.wikia.com/wiki/Bloaty's_Pizza_Hog_Chain
<AlanBell> but not for the olympic games, I am doing the paralympic games in a few weeks time, I will be at the ExCeL centre
<yousiry> ooo
<yousiry> AlanBell i go ExCel centre
<yousiry> table tennis
<ali1234> oo, i've been there
<ali1234> for nokia world
<ali1234> it's surprisingly easy to get to
<yousiry> i compete there ^_^
<AlanBell> here is my secret gamesmaker identity -> https://twitter.com/grumpygamemaker
<yousiry> you come for table tennis games AlanBell in ExCel centre ?
<AlanBell> yousiry: no, I think for the paralympic games it is wrestling, power lifting and boccia and fencing
<yousiry> ooo
 * Seeker` doesn't think AlanBell knows what secret means :P
<yousiry> i understand now
<AlanBell> oh, there is wheelchair table tennis as well
<AlanBell> Seeker`: yeah, I am not too good at that
<AlanBell> it is slightly secret from the other direction
<yousiry> its close to excel centre from here?
<AlanBell> yousiry: I think it is on the other side of the river to you
<AlanBell> then again, maybe it isn't
<AlanBell> http://goo.gl/maps/LL5q
<AlanBell> I didn't realise the main olympic park was that far north
<popey> http://twitpic.com/a7xu5g :)
<AlanBell> oops
<diplo> evening all
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello peeps :)
<inn0min4t3> Good evening, morning or afternoon.
<inn0min4t3> :D
<Darael> Good day.
 * popey pounces on bigcalm_laptop 
 * bigcalm_laptop snaps in half
 * popey pushes trublr 0.10 to ppa \o/
<popey> kinda works now :)
<popey> and no unsightly terminal windows
<The_Fred> I like terminal windows :)
 * bigcalm_laptop updates
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Calibre for e-books - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/07/16/calibre-for-e-books
<bigcalm_laptop> Night peeps :)
<Azelphur> how do I change the default group of a users files?
<Azelphur> like, usually my files are created under group azelphur, I'd like to change that
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Feel the power - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/16/feel-the-power/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=feel-the-power
<WorMzy> Azelphur: man usermod -g
<Azelphur> WorMzy: ty
<ali1234> C++ is insane
<ali1234> if i have a linked list class with a next member
<ali1234> and it is public
<ali1234> and then another class inherits it
<ali1234> it is still of the base class type
<ali1234> if i caste it, weird stuff happens
<ali1234> what now??
<ali1234> hmmmmm
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-17
<penguin42> ali1234: That depends if you cast in the right way
<penguin42> ali1234: If the linklist always uses the baseclass, and it has a virtual destructor, and you only ever cast to children of the baseclass then all should be good
<Azelphur> http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/#comment-1735
 * Azelphur does the happy dance
<Azelphur> does anyone know if there's a "all in one" Ubuntu installer that lets you select which DE you want on install?
<Azelphur> so you can have one image that you can choose between unity, xfce, lxde for example
<Azelphur> ali1234: rofl, pirate (the owner of BS&T) just stabilised the bitcoin economy
<Azelphur> madness
<Azelphur> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg2zig1-minztgTzm1g10zm2g25zv
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: THIS .. IS .. BITCOIN !!!
<daubers> Morning
<christel> good morning lovelies
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> how's everyone?
<christel> AMAZING! \o/
 * christel does a dance with czajkowski 
<daubers> czajkowski: not dead
<DJones> Morning all
<christel> hello DJones :)
<Twinkletoes> mornin'
<christel> awww you have the cutest nick, ever
<czajkowski> daubers: always good
<christel> i am off to leeds to relive my student days for a few days at the end of august
<christel> this will either go DREADFULLY wrong or result in alcohol poisoning!
<christel> actually, it will simply go dreadfully wrong :)
 * daubers gets the python beating stick out
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<christel> morning JamesTait :)
<JamesTait> Hi christel, how are you today?
<christel> i am wonderful! yourself? :)
<JamesTait> Glad to be back at work after a long weekend, might stand a chance of relaxing now. ;)
<JamesTait> Better make the most of the potential opportunity, with the school summer holidays less than a week away!
<christel> hehehe
<christel> how many small energetic people will you have running rings around you? :)
 * oimon wonders what's going on with the gnome-screensaver multi-monitor bug - must affect a lot of people, been going on for years
<oimon> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662757
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 662757 in general "Gnome-Shell lock screen does not always display password prompt" [Normal,Needinfo]
<popey> that looks like the same issue I get in unity
<popey> and nvidia
<popey> i think there's a problem that the card isn't being reset when coming out of suspend or when locking / unlocking
<oimon> it happens after the monitor blanks
<diplo> I never used screen savers
<oimon> it's reproducable
<oimon> screen lock is important in open plan office
<diplo> but i do let it go blank and don't have issues
<diplo> ah, that happens in unity full i think but not 2d
<oimon> i would switch to xcreensaver but i can't invoke it with the gui or ctrl-alt-L
<popey> hmm
<popey> my desktop net card has stopped functioning
<SuperMatt> you wanna get that working again before steam for linux is released
<SuperMatt> pretty stoked that they chose ubuntu, but I'm not surprised in the slightest
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt and diplo
<SuperMatt> what's the buzz?
<brobostigon> coffee.
<brobostigon> caffeine.
<diplo> Tea.
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> The only buzz I have right now is from this morning's awesome steam news
<Laney> not google buzz? :(
<brobostigon> lol
<gord> i still don't understand what google buzz is
<gord> or what google wave is
 * AlanBell doesn't understand what steam is
<oimon> water in gaseous state
<popey> itunes for games
<gord> steam is a way for linux users to pay valve to get at games already available on linux ;)
<diplo> I tried both gord and I tend to agree
<AlanBell> well I understand the phase change process of dihydrogen monoxide fairly well
<daubers> AlanBell: It's like a shop for games, it also does DRMy type things
<oimon> ubuntu software center combined with u1 for games, although it saves your game saves too
<diplo> I liked some of the 'tech' in them though, just not how it was presented maybe
<AlanBell> so it is like ubuntu software centre but only for pay-for closed games?
<oimon> they have sales too, and the games can get v cheap
<daubers> AlanBell: A bit, but it also has built in community chat/forum type things
<diplo> I've bought quite a few games on the cheap now
<diplo> Was playing Far Cry 2 last night, cost me 2-3 quid i think
<oimon> wow
<oimon> i started playing il2 over the weekend , connected my ps2 controller to it
<Laney> porting of the games is more interesting imho
<oimon> got that from gog.com though
<diplo> Oh I forgot about that oimon, will try and remember to install that tonight
<oimon> took me half an hour to perform take off
<oimon> can anyone recommend a cheap wireless adapter for an oldish desktop pc?
<oimon> my brothers PC running XP - edimax OK?
<dogmatic69> There goes the "you cant game on linux" argument... http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/valve-announces-ubuntu-port-of-steam-source-engine-and-left-4-dead-2/
<AlanBell> never really had that argument myself, not after tuxracer was released
<oimon> lol
<SuperMatt> I am really looking forward to being able to play good games on a good OS
<dogmatic69> minecraft works, that is all.
<directhex> minecraft isn't a game, it's a toy
<directhex> in a good way
<directhex> in the way lego isn't a game, it's a toy
<dogmatic69> lego is like the foundation of childhood.
<AlanBell> I am looking forward to ali1234's game, that looks great
<dogmatic69> links?
<oimon> better than numpty physics?
<SuperMatt> I just don't understand the attraction to minecraft
<oimon> seen this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electronic-Starter-Kit-Raspberry-Pi/dp/B0082LD2B8/ref=pd_sim_computers_1
<popey> oimon, i have that kit
<oimon> :D
<directhex> AlanBell, the thing about steam is it's the windows of games - i.e. 90-95% of a game's sales these days come from steam, not from other download stores. availability of steam on linux doesn't automatically mean all the games, but it *does* mean developers already working with valve have a new market with easy distribution mechanisms they're familiar with
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: http://youtube.com/user/ali123492
<SuperMatt> and the humble bundle has proved that linux users are willing to pay money for good games.
<directhex> AlanBell, and note that when mac support was added to steam, any mac port was given to owners of the windows version - i.e. no separate mac versions need to be bought. linux would be the same, i.e. developers would just add a linux port to their game's manifest, for linux users
<directhex> SuperMatt, oh indeed, that's been vital
<SuperMatt> gotta hand it to the humble guys
<directhex> and somehow, ubuntu became the only distro that matters - both steam and unity3d are only targeting ubuntu, with other distros as "good luck with that"
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: damn, that looks very good
<AlanBell> directhex: that is nice, so people are not tied to a platform due to sunk costs in proprietary stuff they like
<SuperMatt> http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-06/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm <- it's fairly obvious why ubuntu is the distro of choice
<popey> AlanBell, thats precisely the problem with the neckbeards... "Hey, just play tuxracer"
<directhex> AlanBell, precisely
<directhex> popey, also precisely
<popey> and "I dont see the problem"
<SuperMatt> directhex: ubuntu won't be the only supported distro, they're just developing with ubuntu in mind
<popey> I could say the same about a11y
<AlanBell> popey: I was joking, but I really don't play games at all
<directhex> AlanBell, if you check store.steampowered.com you'll see games have a little windows logo, or windows+mac. they'll just add a third icon
<popey> wonder if it'll be an ubuntu logo or a penguin ;)
<SuperMatt> popey: I agree with you there. It seems the belief in the linux communities is that if the devs aren't affected, it shouldn't bother users
<christel> an ubuntu coloured penguin.
<AlanBell> I know games are things people do on computers, just not my use-case for them
<SuperMatt> I think I would like to see linux move away from the penguin
<diplo> Really, I really like it :) the different variations etc
<SuperMatt> linux is about power and stability and openess, but I don't think a penguin represents that
<Laney> a warship?
<AlanBell> it is a perfectly find logo for a kernel
<AlanBell> fine
<SuperMatt> for a kernal, yes, but I'm not so sure about the gnu/linux ecosystem
<AlanBell> and it is somewhere inside android, hiding behind the droid thing
<AlanBell> there isn't a linux ecosystem
<SuperMatt> yeah, I know
<SuperMatt> but it would be nice to unite under one logo, one that isn't a penguin!
<AlanBell> there is an android ecosystem, and arguably a debian/ubuntu and a redhat ecosystem
<Laney> what's an ecosystem?
<AlanBell> the linux ecosystem if there is one is the linaro stuff
<popey> wat
<popey> are you trolling?
<SuperMatt> who is that directed at?
<AlanBell> heh, wasn't really meaning to troll ;)
<christel> AlanBell always trolls :(
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: prod
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod Morning
<directhex> fwiw. we're missing the most fundamental question of what steam for linux means
<davmor2> You gotta love Boris http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2012-07-16/boris-johnson-talks-about-the-olympic-athletes-who-got-lost-this-morning/
<diplo> directhex: "Is this the year for linux on the desktop?"
<diplo> :)
<directhex> diplo, "what special commemorative hat will be added to tf2 to mark the occasion"
<davmor2> diplo: every year someone asks that it obviously isn't :P
<diplo> I got bored with that a few years ago davmor2
<davmor2> on a plus side Samsung is now out selling iphones
<diplo> I've got TF2 directhex and played it for maybe an hour
<diplo> Really must play it again at some point
<diplo> heh saw that earlier, would like a decent phone
<directhex> the cellphone market gives me a creeping feeling of malaise
 * diplo just had to google malaise
<diplo> I am normally quite good with words, but failed today
<diplo> :)
<directhex> competition isn't thriving in the right ways, and free software seems to be decreasing, not increasing
<diplo> :):/
<diplo> hmm mixed emotions.
<directhex> webos is dead with no real chance of reprieve. so is meego. tizen is DOA. RIM will be bankrupt within a couple of years. microsoft have infinite money to back WP7/8, but will anyone buy it? which leaves iOS, and variously horrible levels of android
<diplo> Whats your thoughts on B2G ?
<diplo> Failure before it starts ?
<diplo> Had a quick look and play and quite like the idea, not sure if they can execute it correctly
<AlanBell> I like the idea and I had a little play with an S2 running it
<popey> golly, lots of games I don't own in the "under 4 quid" category on steam
<directhex> diplo, B2G is irrelevant as long as samsung can ship android phones for Â£40
<diplo> I was never a gfreat fan of RIM, didn't have the chance to play with WebOS at all.
<diplo> I guess so directhex
<diplo> AlanBell: B2G ?
<directhex> we don't live in a world of products, we live in a world of ecosystems
<directhex> it doesn't matter whether your phone is awesome, it matters if apps are available
<AlanBell> diplo: yes, boot to gecko, had a play with one at the mozspace in London
<diplo> I tend to agree with you
<AlanBell> I would be more likely to write stuff for B2G than anything else really
<diplo> Seem to work well/quickly, I do like the idea of it
<diplo> Same here, had a quick go at Android apps but not really my thing
<directhex> as with so many companies, RIM ran on hubris for too long... about 2 years too long by my calculations. if they had dropped everything and worked on BBX two years earlier, they might have a future
<AlanBell> but I wouldn't be writing stuff that mass market people want to run
<popey> bilmey, crysis is 2.99 on steam
<directhex> AlanBell, with all due respect, you're a statistical irrelevance - and so am i
<directhex> popey, it's as if you haven't been reading my steam sale tweets
<AlanBell> directhex: yes, that was my point, I don't matter much
<popey> i rarely look at twitter
<directhex> popey, you missed civ5 for Â£5, and fallout new vegas for Â£3.75
<directhex> and deus ex 3 for Â£5
<directhex> and portal 2 for Â£3.75
<popey> already have p2
<diplo> I don't
<diplo> :(
<directhex> popey, but co-op! buy it for a loved one!
<diplo> Forgot to open twitter :/
<popey> hah
<directhex> metro 2033 is good for Â£3.75. old-school linear FPS with some sneaking thrown in
<diplo> Would have bought Fallout/Deus and portal
<diplo> :/
<directhex> KOTOR is good stuff from bioware, think of it as a spiritual predecessor to mass effect
<directhex> three new sales at 4pm.
<directhex> eleven new sales including an indie bundle at 6pm.
 * diplo opens hotot
<directhex> no changes between now & then.
<DJones> Damm, Desire HD isn't getting the ICS update
<oimon> my wife's htc desire has gone black lines over the screen
<oimon> should i replace the screen ? or more than that?
<oimon> it receives calls
<davmor2> DJones: CM
<DJones> davmor2: Possibly, may try it in a few months when I upgrade anyway
<davmor2> DJones: I did on my milestone it's like a new phone :)
<dogmatic69> any freelance / contract mysql dba's around?
<dogmatic69> Might have some work available
<chrisd23> anyone there?
<chrisd23> need some help somebody
<DJones> chrisd23: Ask your question, if anybody is around that knows, I'm sure they'll help
<chrisd23> Sure! I updated my pc to 12.04 and after reboot, soon after ubuntu logo appears my screen goes black and a message pops up "out of range 74.9 kHz / 60 Hz" All I can do is work in the terminal (Ctrl + Alt + F1) and everything I find on the internet either fails or I encounter permission issues. No way to get to the GUI (I even tried another monitor, still nothing), so anything has to be done through terminal, but it gives me heada
<AlanBell> chrisd23: is it a particularly unusual monitor or graphics card?
<oimon> argh thought i'd try firefox again but it's been freezing on me :(
<diplo> I've been trying Opera the last few days oimon, pleasantly suprised
<popey> directhex, http://www.gamertogamedeveloper.com/gtgd-series-1
<popey> seen anything else like that for monogame / Unity3d?
<directhex> popey, that *is* unity3d. in 4.0, you just need to click the "make linux binary" button, the rest of the video applies
<popey> sorry, I mean "any more" not "alternatives"
<directhex> nothing so detailed, that really looks like a great tutorial series
<diplo> That does look good, looks like it would have taken a long time
<directhex> 3 new sales are up
<directhex> non-lego-based batman games; double fine games; sniper elite
<directhex> batman is good, double fine is great. skip sniper elite
<directhex> you may already own psychonauts from HIB5
<diplo> looking now :)
<diplo> Do you own all these games directhex ?
<directhex> http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/directhex/uk
<diplo> Says the specified profile can't be found :/
<directhex> wat
<diplo> Can't find me either
<diplo> The specified profile could not be found. Please enter your SteamID into the text field below.
<diplo> ah it's a number
<directhex> Found 291 Games with a value of
<directhex> Â£2723.26 GBP
<diplo> jeesh
<directhex> note: steamcalculator a) assumes all games are full price, and b) lies in cases where games are only available as part of a bundle, e.g. counterstrike condition zero deleted scenes, or dungeon siege 2
<chrisd23> AlanBell My monitor is an LG Flatron l204ws (usual computer lcd I guess) and my graphics card is a ATI Radeon HD 2000 Series (I think 2400)
<directhex> chrisd23, connected via VGA?
<dogmatic69> how can I use a host name in smbmount?
<dogmatic69> I tried adding the host in .ssh/config but that does not seem to work
<dogmatic69> smbmount //the_host/foobar complains about not knowing the host
<diplo> add to /etc/hosts
<diplo> ?
<dogmatic69> eh, I thought that but then I have to manage it in two places
<diplo> Sort dns to resolve it proplery is the only other answer, from memory you run your own dns server ?
<dogmatic69> ye, I just thought I will add it to the reverse proxy and use the_host.dev
<dogmatic69> correct about the DNS
<directhex> so
<directhex> there are two options
<directhex> one is WINS, which is great when it works, and floods your system with crash logs when it doesn't
<directhex> for this, install the winbind package and add "wins" to the dns line in /etc/nsswitch.conf
<directhex> the other is mDNS - you can refer to machinename.local as long as machinename has an mDNS autoresponder installed - linux and mac do by default, windows you need to install one (e.g. "bonjour print services" from apple)
<dogmatic69> its all linux, just using smb because nfs is crap
<directhex> so can you ping machinename.local ?
<directhex> (avahi-daemon package)
<dogmatic69> nope
<dogmatic69> as it is now, I cant ping
<chrisd23> directhex Yes
<directhex> dogmatic69, is avahi-daemon installed on every host you want to contact via mdns?
<dogmatic69> oh, I am just using bind9
<dogmatic69> not the mDNS
<directhex> if you're using bind9 then you configure your zone files by hand, and don't use mdns
<MartijnVdS> mmmm, dns
<AlanBell> any thoughts on create an inexpensive DIY greenscreen (or other colour that openshot will do chromakey on) that won't get me shouted at?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: did you figure out your db?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: most of it with some help in #mysql, there was a join between a varchar and an int which stopped the indexing doing anything
<dogmatic69> ah
<AlanBell> the varchar column is now an int and it went from 7 seconds to 0.2 seconds for that query
<dogmatic69> they can be pretty good in #mysql, I learnt most of my indexing skills there
<dogmatic69> nice
<dogmatic69> I must remember that as I use some varchar <-> int joins too
<dogmatic69> half transition from int ids to uuids
<AlanBell> yeah, I think I understand it a bit better now, I was being thrown off because I thought I was doing the right thing, but it wasn't working
<jacobw> \o/ internet in my flat
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed, looks like it's just going back up again anyway
<Azelphur> nobody can stop the bitcoins, even a bank
<Azelphur> :P
<jacobw> s/a bank/the banks
<Azelphur> jacobw: nah this was a bank
<Azelphur> "Price going too high for my liking, lets sell ~$225,000 worth of bitcoins"
<Azelphur> "fixed(tm)"
<jacobw> problem?
<jacobw> a bank selling currency shouldn't cause a problem
<directhex> jacobw, it is on a tiny economy
<directhex> jacobw, currency works on a buy/sell offers system. if someone dumps a large amount of currency, then first the Â£x trades go, then the Â£0.98x, etc, until the "value" of the currency is around Â£0.01x
<directhex> this has happened before with bitcoin
<directhex> big sell-off collapses the trades market
<jacobw> i thought bitcoin was larger than that now
<ali1234> pirate isn't a bank anyway, it's a ponzi scheme and he just cashed out
<directhex> I mean this honestly when I say it: Duke Nukem Forever is a great use of Â£3.74. GTA Complete is Â£5 again.
<jacobw> gta3 ftw
<directhex> one sale update at 10pm, two at midnight
<ali1234> hmmmm
<davmor2> you know robotics are run by geeks look how they dance http://www.videobash.com/video_show/evolution-of-dance-by-nao-robot-323743
<ali1234> look at the wobbling
<ali1234> servos have no built in damping
<ali1234> i want to see one of those robots do a sprint, then i'll be impressed
<ali1234> they've been dancing like that for years
<ali1234> it's easy, and about all they can do
<davmor2> ali1234: oh you mean like aismo does
<ali1234> hahahaha no
<ali1234> i mean like usain bolt does
<ali1234> asimo runs only by a limited definition that both feet are off the ground at the same time
<ali1234> real actual sprinting conserves energy by bending your bones
<ali1234> these robots are so light that they don't have enough momentum to do that
<ali1234> and if they were heavy enough the servos would fail
<ali1234> bigdog is probably the most impressive robot right now
<ali1234> forget that, petman is better
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mclbVTIYG8E&feature=relmfu
<ali1234> notice it doesn't have ridiculously large clown shoes like pretty much every other robot ever
<ali1234> that's so good i almost want to say it's fake. amazing
<brobostigon> whats the software behind that doc collaboration thingie we have?
<DJones> brobostigon: Etherpad ?
<brobostigon> thank you DJones :)
<penguin42> apt is nice and fast on an ssd :-)
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend any good pocket PC repair tools? :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: a screwdriver
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> something to do laptops too, was thinking perhaps a multi tool of some sort
 * penguin42 does have a micro-leatherman which is kind of useful, frankly not that much for fixing stuff, and people get pissy even though it's only got a tiny blade
<Azelphur> yea I've been tempted by the leatherman micro
<Azelphur> people really get pissy about that though?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Rarely, I've had it once or twice though
<davmor2> so there are some folding bike tools that will cover most things you need to get into a pc, but to be honest you can't beat a proper pc tools case :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Enough so I don't carry it any more
<Azelphur> haha, was it normal people or police?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Security guard
<Azelphur> haha, what did he do?
<Azelphur> I'm curious now :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh just told me I had to hand it in before I could go in, made a fuss about it and gave me back when I left
<Azelphur> ah, I wouldn't mind that if I was going to secure locations
<penguin42> Azelphur: Wasn't, just a theme park
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> you might fix the rides :P
<penguin42> always be prepared
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> how'd he even know you had it on you?
 * penguin42 had it on my keychain
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> I'd be putting it in my pocket all concealed weapon like
 * Azelphur will attack children in theme parks with the nail file
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well it's not like I was trying to conceal
<Azelphur> yea me either
<Azelphur> I just think it'd be something handy to have
<penguin42> yeh it is
<penguin42> Azelphur: Really want something where you can choose the tools though, I mean I don't need a bottle opener, or frankly the knife, but a better selection of drivers would be good
<Azelphur> yea, that'd be cool
<Azelphur> I'd be drawn to something that had screwdriver head bits so I could have all the security bits and stuff
<penguin42> bit much to carry like that, and you'd lose them
<Azelphur> penguin42: I have a scottevest, nothing is too much to carry any more
<Azelphur> xD
<penguin42> I do have a little set Maplin were selling; Â£1/set for little stubby ones
<Azelphur> penguin42: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH8uTdBXVmY
<penguin42> oh is this the one where he pulls a macbook out at the end?
<Azelphur> yep
<penguin42> Azelphur: and only a few seconds ago someone sent me http://boingboing.net/2012/07/17/steve-wozniaks-travel-backpa.html
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> penguin42: I love my scottevest, here's me hiding a netbook in the pocket https://www.dropbox.com/sh/omno6gft4r87hdq/4GvJ0i1h0v :P
<penguin42> do you often have to do that ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: have to? not really. Want to? Yes
<Azelphur> Every time I go to my brothers or something now I just put my netbook in my pocket
<penguin42> yeh, I can see it's more convenient than a backpack
<Azelphur> kinda hard to get hold of a leatherman micra now, only place I can find it is in USA or charging ridiculous amounts
<penguin42> I'm sure I've seen them in camping shops
<Azelphur> I think they stopped making them now
<penguin42> Azelphur: I got mine at a conference, AMD were giving them away to organisers
<Azelphur> nice :p
<brobostigon> my dad bought me back one of those, about 10 years ago, when he was on a business trip to america.
<Azelphur> suppose I'll get it used on Amazon for Â£14
<Azelphur> unless anyone is particularly interested in parting with theirs :P
<brobostigon> sorry, no.
<AlanBell> think I might get some lime green paint and make a greenscreen wall
<jacobw> one should never part with their leatherman
 * jacobw has https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scynn9rN-YA
<Azelphur> jacobw: nice, that's kinda tempting too :)
<Azelphur> haha it has a saw blade xD
<Azelphur> jacobw: is that a standard screwdriver bit socket?
<Azelphur> yay for the comments "Definitely not legal to carry in the UK" :(
<jacobw> just don't get stopped and searched
<Azelphur> haha
<jacobw> mine is an old model, it doesn't have the socket or the helpful markings described in the movie
<penguin42> Azelphur: Might be possible to have the blade removed
<Azelphur> yea
<jacobw> that would make it far less useful
<Azelphur> I imagine you'd be allowed to keep the blades that don't have the pointed ends
<jacobw> the blade itself isn't illegal, its the locking mechanism that makes blade illegal
<penguin42> the locking mechanism?
<jacobw> if a knife tool locks in to an weapon like position it illegal in the UK, otherwise its considered to be a tool
<penguin42> bizarre
<Azelphur> yay for UK weapon laws
<jacobw> most knife tools don't lock, if you push the blade from the blunt side it retracts, if you try to stab someone with it, it retracts or buckles in direction of the blunt side
<penguin42> oh that kind of makes sense - can you get existing stuff modded like that?
<jacobw> the leatherman wave has a tab that is depressed by the blade in the closed position, when the blade is open the tab presses against the blade to jam it open
<jacobw> if you removed the tab, it'd be legal in the UK
<jacobw> it'd be quite easy to do
<ahayzen> Net split? uhoh
<jacobw> second time this evening
<ahayzen> whts going on ?
<jacobw> the irc daemon moves users from servers with high load to servers with lower load
<ahayzen> i see
<ahayzen> too many people using Ubuntu and IRC ;)
<jacobw> irc ftw
<jacobw> in all seriousness, irc is the best communication medium i'm aware of
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<jacobw> have you seen the steam news Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> I have indeed, gonna be cool
<ahayzen> will the nouveau drivers be up to it will be the main question for me.
<ali1234> noooooooooooo they won't
<ali1234> not a chance
<ahayzen> well on my current machine the Nouveau 'feels' faster and better than the Nvidia ones
<ali1234> and on my machine they can't even run in 2D mode for longer than 10 minutes
<ali1234> then the whole machine locks up
<ahayzen> i play all the same games as before, with the same settings .... and i haven't noticed any difference
<ali1234> nouveau is extremely hit and miss
<ahayzen> yep seems to be
<ahayzen> ali1234, what is your graphics card?
<ali1234> NVIDIA Corporation GT215 [GeForce GT 240] (rev a2)
<ahayzen> NVIDIA Corporation G80 [GeForce 8800 GTS] (rev a2)
<ali1234> the bugs with this card are well known to the developers btw
<ali1234> there's a note about it in the documentation somewhere
<ahayzen> i see, i guess the older cards are better as they have had more development time to sort out the bugs
<ali1234> this card is over 2 years old
<ali1234> probably 3
<ahayzen> oh, is your card one of the ones that needs the reclocking ?
<ali1234> i have no idea
<ali1234> i just know that dual head or any kind of 3d = instant total freezing of machine
<ali1234> and 2d mode will generally crash within 10 minutes
<ahayzen> blimey not gd :(
<jacobw> i think the valve console theories are plausible
<ali1234> me too, kind of
<ali1234> or if not a console then something like onlive
<ali1234> i tried onlive and was surprised how little lag there is
<jacobw> i've just looked it up, i was thinking about lag
<ali1234> they must have some sweet encoding hardware
<ahayzen> Cloud gaming could be interesting for linux, as the game would only have to be written once (run on the sever?), so only the client would have to be written for linux, correct?
<ali1234> yeah and the client only has to play a video and collect input so it's trivial
<ali1234> so if valve wanted to set up a onlive type thing, they'd currently need a load of windows licences
<ali1234> but if they port all their games to linux...
<jacobw> like vnc/rdp with gaming input devices
<ali1234> onlive has a deal with microsoft (which microsoft tried to change) and also has to buy playstations etc
<jacobw> they'd need an insane number of windows licenses
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> Has anyone here ever used MultiSystem? Trying to get more than one Windows image on there and it's not having it :(
<ali1234> valve entering the hardware business doesn't make a huge amount of sense
<ali1234> however, game streaming to mobile devices... now that makes sense
<ali1234> they are definitely up to something
<jacobw> perhaps they'll make their own controller for all platforms
<ahayzen> Cloud gaming almost has the same philosophy as Java "write once, run anywhere" .... if you had a client "anywhere" ;)
<ali1234> no, it's more like thin client/mainframe
<ahayzen> yh i guess
<ali1234> goes for the whole cloud really
<ahayzen> yep
<jacobw> it's better than that, it's run in one place that's optimized for running the software and access from anywhere
 * penguin42 throws the channel 'sutherlands wheel of reincarnation'
<jacobw> i'd be very happy to have a controller that i can use on all platforms for games that i could play by proxy on all platforms
<ali1234> ok i've nearly figured out a way to make my road surface have forks and also do cylinders/pipes properly and i just have one problem left
<ali1234> and it boils down to this
<ali1234> imagine a 2d grid
<jacobw> what's the context?
<jacobw> road surface in what?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-m4WnzkqXg
<ali1234> the way those tubes are implemented is BAD
<ali1234> i've come up with a way to fix it that also allows forks in the road
<ali1234> so each section of the track has a position and orientation
<ahayzen> blimey, did you create that ali1234?
<ali1234> yes.
<ahayzen> thts awesome :)
<ali1234> the 2d grid maps onto the position/orientation and forms the cross section of the track at that point
<ali1234> so in the 2d grid you have a bunch of lines with a left point and a right point
<ali1234> the points snap to the grid (ie they are integers)
<ali1234> so the problem is that each line needs to possibly be connected to another one
<ali1234> a connection is 1 left point and 1 right point
<ali1234> so if you drive over the edge you move into the next part of the cross section
<ali1234> further, if two lines are connected, the cross section is no longer a cross section, it becomes a spline instead, which allows curved tracs, and even cylinders if it is a looop
<ali1234> so all that is fine
<ali1234> but, i'm wondering how to model the connections
<ali1234> each point can only be connected to one other point which must be the opposite type
<ali1234> since it's a grid you can easily detect if two points are in the same place
<ali1234> and then join them
<ali1234> however, what if there are three points in one place?
<livingdaylight> I've installed a bin file but can't seem now to launch it?
<jacobw> livingdaylight: chmod +x /path/to/file; ./path/to/file
<livingdaylight> http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4087/screenshotfrom201207172.png its got a diamond shaped launcher in its folder in my home directory. But just clicking on it doesn't seem to launch it.
<ali1234> so then i need to have another bit of data with a list of connections
<livingdaylight> jacobw, I did that to install it, but can't run it now.
<jacobw> 'each point can only be connected to one other point'
<livingdaylight> I googled but everything comes back to how to install it; nothing on how to launch it
<jacobw> how can you have a divergance?
<ali1234> jacobw: one or none
<livingdaylight> btw is chmod 700 an alternative to +x ?
<daubers> livingdaylight: what does file tell you about the file?
<daubers> file /path/to/file
<ali1234> jacobw: left point is always connected to it's matching right point. each point can also be connected to one other point of the opposite type
<livingdaylight> daubers,
<jacobw> livingdaylight: each number in the permission is a sum of 4 for read, 2 for write and 1 for execute, 4+2+1, or r+w+x is 7; the first number is for owner, the second is for the group, and the last is for world
<livingdaylight> daubers, http://pastebin.com/jcJhP6tT
<ali1234> hmm another way of saying this is each position on the grid can only contain 1 left point and 1 right point, and they can't belond to the same section
<jacobw> livingdaylight: owner=r+w+x,group=none,world=none is 700
<livingdaylight> jacobw, cool!
<daubers> livingdaylight: do you get an error on trying to run it
<livingdaylight> daubers, nothing happens. You mean when I click on the launcher?
<livingdaylight> daubers, http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4087/screenshotfrom201207172.png
<jacobw> ali1234: i see
<daubers> livingdaylight: what happens if you try and run it from a terminal?
<livingdaylight> daubers, how would I run it from terminal?
<daubers> cd to the directory containing it
<livingdaylight> yes
<daubers> then just do ./clip2net
<livingdaylight> daubers, yea, tried that before, and get this: (clip2net:9073): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
<jacobw> ali1234: so if you have divergence you have pairs of left and right points at the same depth?
<ali1234> no there is no depth, it is 2d at each control point
<livingdaylight> daubers, http://pastebin.com/UnS3cCjT
<daubers> livingdaylight: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/805303 <- different program same problem. They seem to suggest its the GTK theme for Qt or somesuch
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 805303 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed with the default qt4 gui" [Critical,Fix released]
<jacobw> a series of control points in 2d is what i meant by depth
<daubers> From that report workaround: install qtconfig-qt4 and change gui style to motif.
<daubers> Bit old though... (nearly 12 months)
<jacobw> sorry, 'depth' is ambiguous :)
<ali1234> still ambiguous
<ali1234> there's no depth
<livingdaylight> daubers, aha! I'll try that then. Never had prblems with it in previous versions of Ubuntu
<ali1234> there's just a list of lines which may or may not be connected
<jacobw> ok
<ali1234> let me make a picture to illustrate
<livingdaylight> daubers, can't sudo apt-get install qtconfig-qt4 . Where would I change gui style, please?
<jacobw> i understand the structure, i don't understand how you can diverge if you can't have a line that connects to two non overlapping lines
<ali1234> then you don't understand it :)
<daubers> livingdaylight: Pass.... this is a bit outside my are of understanding
<ali1234> jacobw: http://ubuntuone.com/4ixP4VGn1R7X0mI3MrtzfU
<livingdaylight> do we have another screenshot available in Linux that publishes to the web directly like jing etc, anyone?
<livingdaylight> daubers, no worries - thanks anyway - very much.
<jacobw> OIC
<jacobw> so the problem with three points in the same place is one is orphaned when the other two are connected?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> at each stage there are always 4 points
<ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/53lUzu37ej1xWtWEWSpmG9
<ali1234> that's the cross sections
<ali1234> bottom is the cross section at the point where they diverge
<ali1234> so L1 is always connected to R1 etc
<jacobw> yeah
<ali1234> there can be any number of such line sections
<ali1234> so the challenge is to know when two line sections connect
<ali1234> that happens if an L point and an R point are in the same place, and they don't belong to the same line section
<jacobw> when 2 pointrs are in the same place
<jacobw> yeah
<ali1234> so i need to enforce that basically
<ali1234> each grid point can only have 1 L and 1 R and they can't belong to the same line
<ali1234> and i'd like to do that in a way that can never have invalid data put into it
<ali1234> there are other constraints on the overall surface that this system models extremely well
<ali1234> eg you need to know a distance, so it has to ultimately be linear
<ali1234> moving side to side does not advance you, ever
<ali1234> and each resulting face has to have well defined tangents and normal
<jacobw> is the 1 left and 1 right and not same line implemented yet?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i am talking about completely rewriting it
<jacobw> do you allow this and collapse the lines or not allow it?
<ali1234> none of this is implemented
<ali1234> the way it works now sucks
<ali1234> i guess i have two hash maps, one for left points and one for right points
<jacobw> l { x, y } and r { x, y }
<jacobw> yeah
<ali1234> maybe not since i'll never have more than 4 or 5, i can just loop
<ali1234> and the insertion functions will have to check and raise an error if something not allowed happens
<ali1234> i would prefer a datastructure that always prevents error conditions by design
<ali1234> but i don't think it is posible
<jacobw> i think it is
<jacobw> i can't see anything contradictory in the definition
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but think about this from an editor ui POV
<jacobw> hmmpphh
<jacobw> yeah
<ali1234> i could have {L{x,y}, R{x,y}, next}
<ali1234> where next points to the next Left point
<ali1234> but that doesn't prevent a) two edges join into the same target edge
<ali1234> ie Y shapes
<ali1234> and it doesn't enforce the positional requirements
<ali1234> and also i'd need to make a UI for connection points
<ali1234> i'd prefer to just connect the points by dragging a L onto an R
<ali1234> or an R onto an L
<ali1234> as long as that one constraint is enforced it all fits
<ali1234> if a point contains Ln, it can only also contain one R(m!=n), or nothing
<ali1234> if that is ever violated the whole program crashes out with an assert error :)
<jacobw> you need to prevent _\|/_ shapes where each line is too narrow for the vehicle
<ali1234> the lines are never too narrow
<ali1234> the vehicle is a point
<jacobw> the vehicle is smallest possible point?
<ali1234> so unless Ln = Rn, and then it's not a surface any more and you get divide by zero when trying to calculate it
<ali1234> in terms of it's motion on the surface, yes
<jacobw> ok
<ali1234> for collision detection with other vehicle it's a sphere currently
<ali1234> so that's why the m!=n rule
<ali1234> a point can only share it's position with the opposite side point from a different edge section, to prevent the track from being 0 wide
<ali1234> since they are on a grid that means the track will be always at least 1 unit wide
<ali1234> putting this stuff on a grid is the key really to make it manageable
<ali1234> and that just means using integers for the positions
<ali1234> i'll probably use signed char for the grid positions just to keep it simple
<ali1234> and then multiply it up to make it bigger as required
<ali1234> though i think the maximum width of the track in the video is only 50 meters or so
<jacobw> i can't think of a way to allow divergent paths in a link list of lines
<ali1234> yeah that's the key
<ali1234> this allows it
<ali1234> but the linked list is still a list
<ali1234> the path can diverge
<ali1234> but only along the direction of travel
<ali1234> and it has to join up again
<ali1234> imagine a rope
<SuperEngineer> http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/linux-developers-step-up-to-the-secure-boot-challenge.html
<ali1234> you untwist one section and you can see the individual strands
<ali1234> you can cut two strands and swap them over
<ali1234> and rejoin them
<ali1234> or leave them un connected
<ali1234> see, in the model, i didn't mention it, but each edge line also knows which edge line it onnects to in the next section
<ali1234> (or none)
<jacobw> i like the rope analogy
<ali1234> i have it all worked out
<ali1234> it'sjust this one rule enforcement that's left to nail down
<ali1234> i just realised something
<jacobw> my visual cortex hurts
<ali1234> since each edge can connect to a different edge in the next control point, alloing arbitrary linkages is unnecessary
<ali1234> eg R1 -> L3
<ali1234> is not needed
<ali1234> you just reorganise it however you want :)
<ali1234> so at R1 i only need to check if R1 == L2
<ali1234> cool, that simplifies things a lot
<jacobw> disallow arbitrary linkage?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> so eg R1 can only share with L2
<ali1234> R2 can only share with L3
<jacobw> that avoids the sides movement may go forward problem
<jacobw> i think
<ali1234> no, sides movement never goes forwards
<ali1234> that's not a problem
<jacobw> ok
<ali1234> because linkages between these edges only ever represents sideways movement
<ali1234> to move forwards you move into the next segment, which has a whole other set of lines in a different grid
<jacobw> good
<ali1234> that's the only way to maintain the distance measurement
<ali1234> ok so i can't disallow arbitrary linkages :(
<ali1234> if i want a cross section like - O -
<jacobw> without another way to maintain the distance measurement
<ali1234> remember this is only about the 2d cross section at some distance around the track
<ali1234> so anywhere along these edges is always the same distance from the start/finish
<jacobw> hmm
<jacobw> can you make arbitrary linkages only visible to the distance measurement?
<ali1234> they are irrelevant
 * jacobw sleeps
<AlanBell> ali1234: is there an advantage to taking the inside line on a corner?
<ali1234> yes of course
<ali1234> it took so much head banging to make that work, let me tell you
<ali1234> you also won't travel in a straight line if the track is curved and you don't steer
<AlanBell> cool, I didn't follow all the discussion here, just saw you mention that any point on a cross section was the same distance to the start/finish
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> the surface is a manifold
<ali1234> so it has always i,j coords as well as x,y,z coords
<ali1234> you move along a geodesic path
<ali1234> which is calculated using a stepwise integrator
<ali1234> the control points produce a trimesh
<ali1234> you move in a straight line only within triangles in that trimesh
<ali1234> when you hit an edge you rotate around that edge vector into the next triangle and continue
<ali1234> then, you know who is wining by sorting on j
<ali1234> and the AI knows how to steer by looking at i
<christel> rawr
<popey> evening
<AlanBell> hello returning podcasters and spacehackers
<zleap> evening popey
<zleap> i am back to subscribing to the podcast now
<zleap> and the naked scientist one
 * zleap hides after an unrelated plug
<christel> hellooooo
<zleap> which was not intended
 * christel tickles AlanBell and popey and zleap 
<zleap> thanks
<christel> hehe
<dick> Hi, I am using Kies air to connect to my samsung s2. I want to download the pictures I took on it but it says to download multiple files (or to upload a file smaller than 100mb) I need to run the java applet then it prompts me to download java. I looked, I have openJDK java 7 runtime installed.
<AlanBell> dick:
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install icedtea-plugin
<dick> Alanbell: Thanks, I'll do that when ubuntu is finished getting it's updates. I can use bluetooth to connect to it but that only sends a few kb at a time
<AlanBell> the plugin lets the browser use the java you have installed I think, normally it sorts it out by magic, but if it doesn't then that should fix it
<AlanBell> have you upgraded your S2 to Ice Cream Sandwich?
<AlanBell> I couldn't get the kies desktop software to run at all so ended up putting cyanogen mod on mine as O2 are not doing an over the air upgrade
<ali1234> CM9 is pretty awesome
<dick> I think it has android 4.1, whatever they call that. I tried to install cyanogenmod using hemidall but the instructions in the wiki didn't work
<AlanBell> yeah, it seems fine, though I really want to put boot to gecko on it now
<AlanBell> it took me a few attempts and I thought I had bricked the phone at one point, apparently there is a bit of a knack in holding the right combination of buttons as you turn it on to get it in the right mode
<dick> I downloaded the sudo apt-get install icedtea-plugin and now I have a java applet come up that lets me select files. I tried to upload an album but it didn't like that, so I uploaded the files, it hasn't uplloaded. I tried downloading the pictures from it, they haven't downloaded
<dick> I've connected my samsung s2 via USB, it is set as USB media device. In ubuntu I can see a directory listing but there's nothing in any folder. I tried turning my phone off and on again, no difference
<dick> likewise transferring to the vice comes up with error creating directory -1: unspecified error
<dick> there's an icon showing the USB plug and it says syncronising
<dick> Nvm, I went into USB utils in settings, told it to connect as usb storage, the cartoon android turned from green to orange and I'm now transferring the files over. Life is good
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-18
<antony__> .
<Azelphur> ..
<christel> Good Morning!
<AlanBell> morning o/
<christel> hullu mr Bell!
<mattt> ohai
<christel> morning mattt \o/
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> diplo :)
<christel> (i still read your nick as duplo)
<diplo> Already used :(
<christel> aw :(
<popey> morning
<christel> hellooooo popey
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Finally back home but still on holiday. Don't know what to do with myself, so I'm back in my office. Yay
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon :)(
<bigcalm> -(
<popey> Good morning bigcalm :)
<livingdaylight> greetings all - I come in peace - may you all prosper
<bigcalm> popey: hiyaaaaaa
<brobostigon> good morning livingdaylight
<livingdaylight> gm brobostigon
 * popey switches machines
<bigcalm> I wonder if the other machine is in another building
<bigcalm> Oh, there he is
<popey> here I am!
<bigcalm> Stuck in the middle with you
<livingdaylight> popey: hey... remember last week or so, the issues I was reporting about system being sluggish and freezing up?
<popey> i do
<livingdaylight> popey: so, it turns out it was my wireless keyboard!
<livingdaylight> I changed it and presto problems resolved... I upgraded to a new Â£300 computer for nothing
<popey> Jul 11 13:41:54 <livingdaylight>	I now have the system not responding to my mouse. It only enables me to launch programs, but for instance, when I launched FF and tried to open a new tab, I couldn't. Or when launching X-chat I wanted to go to edit to add ubuntu-uk to the default list of rooms and again, couldn't. Its as if screen froze. I just put new batteries in this wireless mouse.
<popey> you changed battery in the mouse, but not the keyboard? :)
<livingdaylight> I don't remember EVER changing the batteries in my keyboard. When mouse would stop working is when I knew I had to change batteries... I expected the same with the keyboard. Not that it would affect the system though
<livingdaylight> I haven't even put new batteries in the old keyboard. I just, on a whim, tried a different keyboard, So, not sure if it is batteries or broken keyboard even
<livingdaylight> how funny to get a new pc and expect problems resolved only to be dismayed that the same problems from before are recurring and eventually find out it was only a keyboard all along. Have to look on the funny side
<livingdaylight> the thing is the new pc is quite a bit louder than my previous one, so, I do regret a bit the extra expenditure, for naught, as it turned out, especially, when the beast is constantly letting me know its there. Maybe just need to upgrade the fans... Anyway... just thought I'd let you know what that was all about in the end, as it seemed abit of a mystery at the time.
<livingdaylight> May that be a free lesson to everyone. Check all your cables and peripherals before assuming your machine is broke, lol.
<gord> gmail has been really crap with my spam filtering lately, now its not only not filtering away the spam mail but marking it as important...
<diplo> livingdaylight: What PC did you go for in the end, pre-built ?
<livingdaylight> diplo: no, I went and bought the parts and put it together myself.
<livingdaylight> diplo: intel i-3 2120, Asus p8-h61 mobo, 1x8gb ram, 500gb hd, Coolmaster Silencio 550
<livingdaylight> If it weren't for the case, I shouldn't have paid more than Â£250, but case jacked it up unfortunately, as I'm not so impressed with it. Not quite living up to its name 'Silencio' oh, also got a 750W psu. So, fairly future proof and upgradable system.
<diplo> :)
<diplo> not bad then, still trying to talk my parents into one of the zoostorms
<livingdaylight> diplo: yea, would not have gone wrong with one of them either. I just enjoyed putting a pc together myself. And for the same money I got to have a say in the various parts which individually are probably better than zoostorms default offering. Maybe I'm wrong
<popey> I've been pretty impressed with the zoostorm on my desk
<diplo> Up until last 2-3 years ive always built my own, had a hand me down dell atm
<diplo> But want a new machine
<popey> I stopped building my own years ago
<diplo> bigcalm: Your photo skills suck :)
<livingdaylight> popey: but you got an i7 which isn't budget, even for a zoostorm
<bigcalm> diplo: :D
<livingdaylight> popey: why d'you stop building your own?
<diplo> Not tagging them, or just being slow ?
<popey> life is too short
<bigcalm> diplo: give us a chance!
<livingdaylight> diplo: why do you want a new machine?
<diplo> Get on it man! What have you got work to do or something?!?!?!!?
<diplo> Play some newer games, mine is chugging somewhat now
<diplo> And re-encoding some more of my films on a quad core would make life much easier
<bigcalm> diplo: nope, on holiday :(*
<diplo> Alright for some
<bigcalm> There, all tagged now
<bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/u/0/113834766641843352499/posts/GqwQp3Y3LbS
<diplo> Upto anything for the rest of the week bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> diplo: I need to buy some shoes. Other than that, no idea
<bigcalm> Really trying not to do any work
<diplo> heh
<czajkowski> bigcalm: a walk?
<czajkowski> take photos?
<czajkowski> mow the law
<bigcalm> czajkowski: have you seen the recent photos I've taken?
<bigcalm> Maybe I need more practice ;)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: indeed well there you go, get off line and practice :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: it was so sad that we didn't get to play with you on Saturday :( I hope you're feeling better soon
<czajkowski> bigcalm: that just sounds wrong
<bigcalm> czajkowski: now you sound like davmor2 :S
 * bigcalm heads out for a bit - toodles
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: hello, goodbye
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod! morning
<jussi> ok, ukites, I need to know the best way to get from Heathrow to oxford, suggestions please?
<czajkowski> jussi: factor in olympics :)
<jussi> oh, I should add "during the olympics..."
<jussi> czajkowski: yeah
<directhex> jussi, there's a bus
<czajkowski> check the website for up to date info as routes/plans have all changed.
<jussi> directhex: link if you dont mind?
<directhex> http://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/main.php?page_id=24
<directhex> terminal 5 to gloucester green bus station
<jussi> right, we arrive at 850, _might_ make the 10am...
<jussi> but they are every 30 mins, so thats nice
<jussi> Anyone know which terminal Air italia usually uses?
<czajkowski> jussi: terminal 4 says google
<directhex> http://www.heathrowairport.com/flight-information/which-terminal
<czajkowski> http://www.heathrowairport.com/flight-information/which-terminal
<directhex> :D
<czajkowski> dynf
<czajkowski> :)
<jussi> :D
<AlanBell> jussi: when are you here?
<jussi> AlanBell: in the week of 30/7-3/8
<christel> jussi: my suggestion would be to not come before after the olympics :P
<jussi> christel: no choice in the matter, its a business trip
<christel> awww
<christel> who conducts business during the olympics?!
<jussi> people who do business :F
<AlanBell> it should be fine, London will be a mess and Heathrow will be a bit busy, but Oxford should be fine
<davmor2> christel: everyone
<AlanBell> davmor2: only the official sponsors are allowed to conduct business during the olympics
 * jussi hugs christel :D
<davmor2> jussi: in oxford you need to go to the eagle and child, the food is good there ask the american QA contingent :D
<jussi> davmor2: :D
<davmor2> jussi: just don't say the pie word
<jussi> lol
<christel> mmmpie.
<jussi> I think a peice of smoked cod and some chips will be awesome while Im there :D
<christel> a smoked cod piece..
<jussi> haha
<christel> i have a silly day with like tons of small projects to do, this frustrates me as i have no idea what to do first
<christel> (so i just end up procrastinating instead)
<AlanBell> IRC is the thing to do first
 * davmor2 pictures christel doing ibble obble black bobble as we speak
<jussi> christel: I know exactly how you feel :D
<christel> davmor2: ahaha
 * davmor2 now pictures jussi doing the same thing 
<christel> i am picturing highly inappropriate things
 * AlanBell is less than entirely surprised by that
<christel> hrmph.
<christel> i was actually picturing brownies with crispy bacon
<christel> as i am pondering if this would be a culinary delight worth exploring
<christel> :)
<christel> <- sweetness and innocence (apart from where bacon is involved)
<davmor2> christel: don't say that when Jono is on the channel
<christel> haha
<christel> that was not the kind of brownie i had in mind :P
<jussi> christel: no, not choclate + bacon. However! Bacon and caramel muffins could work...
<jussi> (Im serious)
 * AlanBell expects interesting stuff to be brought to the BBQ
<christel> i have a green & black's "cooking with chocolate "cookery book
<christel> it has some nice stuff
<gord> "how to get diabetes"
 * davmor2 thinks that christel is actually Letitia Cropley from the vicar of dibley
<christel> it has stuff like VENISON IN CHOCOLATE SAUCE(!)
<christel> mmmmm
<christel> i can see bacon and caramel working actually
<christel> caramel is rather yummy with salt(!)
<jussi> christel: everyone knows bacon and maple syrup is awesome, and the canadians do wonderful bacon pancakes with maple syrup
<christel> mmbacon
<livingdaylight> In Unity 1-click on workspace switcher opens the quadrant and then it takes another double-click for chosen workspace to maximize. Is there a way, I wonder, not to have to double-click? That makes it 3 mouse twitches to switch workspace which isn't as comfortable as it used to be.
<oimon> anyone recommend an html editor?
<gord> notepad.exe
<diplo> notepad++, Komodo, Gedit, Netbeans.
<diplo> Depends what you want really, but I use any of those 4 on a regular basis
<oimon> i have some mhtml files that i have to edit. i'm converting to html and editing them :-\
<diplo> On linux ?
<oimon> yesh
<diplo> Komodo works well for me, not in repos though Komodo Edit, Netbeans is a lot heavier but works well
<diplo> Gedit doesn't have auto complete, or doesn't work that well if ti does
<oimon> notepad++ is ubuntu?
<diplo> Windows, but runs fairly well under wine
<oimon> ah
<oimon> i just wanna wysiwyg style editor to strip out some guff on the (m)html files
<oimon> a bit like the komposer/mozilla used to
<diplo> You want to see the page like with dreamweaver whilst editing it you mean ?
<oimon> yes
<oimon> looks like kompozer is still around
<diplo> I've always just handcrafted code
<diplo> You can set most of these browsers to have a keybinding to open the page you are working with for your default browser
<diplo> I just have a browser open on a local apache install and alt tab / refresh
<oimon> unfortunately i am required to edit pages created by some MS crap
<oimon> for some tutorials
<oimon> quick and dirty
<diplo> An:/
<oimon> hmm.. i'm buying something on ebay that has cheaper postage when you buy 2 items, buy incorrect postage appears in checkout :-\
<oimon> must be something the seller has neglected to do, right
<oimon> ?
<diplo> Sounds like it, rarely use ebay now adays
<oimon> it's an annoying necessity
<diplo> Python people, whats the best way of checking a script without it executing
<diplo> Just want to check it will execute without errors before customer trys it, just incase any of the cut and paste has screwed anything up
<diplo> python -m py_compile script.py <-- Just found that ?
 * bigcalm waddles back in
<directhex> popey, looks like we have our fir... second i guess given bastion, XNA-based game in the ubuntu app store
<christel> BIGCLAM
<christel> how is le holiday?
<bigcalm> christel: my deer! It is relaxing thanks :)
<christel> \o/
<bigcalm> How's it down south?
<directhex> COVERED IN BEES
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU ?
<diplo> Wet!
<davmor2> gord: I thought this when I saw it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo
<oimon> directhex, which game's that?
<directhex> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/hackwork/
<christel> bigcalm: down south is.. good, wet but good :)
<oimon> directhex, "Ubuntu One synchronization of save-games and settings" sweet
<directhex> oimon, heh, that *is* pretty sweet. it's a must-have feature in steam
<oimon> more apps need this
<oimon> things seem to be moving apace with ubuntu this year
<gord> can't you use sync the folder it saves things to?
<oimon> gord, sometimes prone to issues
<oimon> e.g. lock files and scared of overwriting data
<gord> the very nature of syncronisation means you are always gonna run into problems
<oimon> u1 doesn't have version cotnrol yet does it ?
<gord> nope
 * diplo wants sleep
<diplo> Wonder if anyone will notice if i take 30 :)
<bigcalm> I'm surprised that my phone hasn't rung with the office number this week
<diplo> :P
<diplo> I used to worry about that tbh, new job they refuse even if i offer
<diplo> So all good
<bigcalm> That's the expenses sorted out for our holiday down south. Hayley was a touch surprised. And we get to do it all again in August with oggcamp
<davmor2> bigcalm: I wouldn't head down souff for oogcamp dude ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, might be disappointed
<Myrtti> mÃ¤h
<Myrtti> aquarius: ping
<oimon> hope oggcamp will be down south again next year..
<aquarius> Myrtti, pong
<oimon> will be nice to go again. liverpool is a bit much
<bigcalm> Live in the Midlands. Then you get to complain about going in either direction and still go :D
<penguin42> oimon: Can't cope with our northern air?
<oimon> no, too stinky and far away
<oimon> but mostly the far away thing
<oimon> farnham was great cos my dad lives there
<oimon> and in-laws nearby
<oimon> so wiff+sprog get to go with me
<Myrtti> aquarius: mind a pm?
<aquarius> go for it
<aquarius> am I that intimidating that I need be asked? :)
<bigcalm> Awww
<bigcalm> aquarius: time for a shave maybe?
<bigcalm> Humm, I need a shave
<Myrtti> aquarius: courtesy stuck from elsewhere
<Myrtti> old dog new tricks etc
<bigcalm> directhex: would you recommend Dear Esther?
<directhex> bigcalm, dunno, it's arthouse nonsense imho, but i've enjoyed arthouse nonsense before (journey on ps3)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> What sort of game play is it?
<directhex> first person explorer, iirc
<bigcalm> Myst?
<bigcalm> Ah, Myst3 then
<directhex> i guess
<bigcalm> Ta
<davmor2> bigcalm: BOO!
<bigcalm> The Binding of Isaac Collection, Dear Esther, GTA complete package == Â£11.71
<bigcalm> It would be rude not to
<bigcalm> davmor2: boing
<directhex> bigcalm, well, 11 more sales in half an hour.
<directhex> bigcalm, last chance for just cause 2!
<bigcalm> directhex: never heard of that
<directhex> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1632-Just-Cause-2
<bigcalm> The best reviews are from Zero Punctuation :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> directhex: sold!
<bigcalm> You bugger
<directhex> bigcalm, or i could link tomy entire game library, ordered by play time: http://steamcommunity.com/id/directhex/games?tab=all
 * bigcalm puts directhex on ignore for a little bit
<directhex> 11 new sales in 20 mins, people!
<bigcalm> directhex: are you on commission?
<directhex> bigcalm, i love games!
<bigcalm> directhex: that you do :)
<jacobw> evening
<davmor2> bigcalm: he's on commission I'm with you there :D
 * bigcalm zooms out for the evening
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: photo time? :)
 * jacobw is watching eureka from the syfy channel
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: not the comet's tale on bbc4?
<jacobw> perhaps i'll fire up the vpn
<MartijnVdS> oh yeah
<MartijnVdS> you're not in the uk either :)
 * jacobw pines for the bbc
<MartijnVdS> aww
 * MartijnVdS likes that's he's close to the coast (= close to the UK)
<jacobw> hehe, freesat?
<mattt> feel a bit late to the party, but finally got my raspberry pi :)
 * jacobw sneezes on mattt's pi
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: yeah
 * mattt sneezes on jacobw
<jacobw> oi
 * daubers drinks his wine and stays out of the little boys fighting again
<jacobw> what's the wine daubers?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E11  Freedom Through Disobedience - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/07/18/s05e11-freedom-through-disobedience/
<popey> oh look!
 * mattt sneezes on daubers' wine
 * popey runs up to gord 
<popey> BARK BARK BARK!
<MartijnVdS> yo, dawg
<jacobw> yo dwag, i heard you liked some dawg in your dawg, so i put some dawg in your dawg, dwag :)
<daubers> jacobw: Umm... some red we were given :)
<daubers> Merlot I think
<daubers> This must be the cool side of the netsplit, 'cause we got Daviey
<MartijnVdS> woo
<ahayzen> yey :)
<mattt> any of you lot going to the openstack meetup next week?
<mattt> (in london)
<czajkowski> yup
 * christel nibbles on czajkowski 
<czajkowski> herrro
<czajkowski> christel: you coming up next week?
<czajkowski> http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/events/55354582/
<mattt> czajkowski: nice, be sure to say hi
<czajkowski> well it'l be easier for you to come find me and say hi
<mattt> dang it
<christel> i doubt it, maybe, no promises tho!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Steam on Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/18/steam-on-ubuntu/
<pic> hi guys
<dwatkins> ello
<bigcalm> Ello :)
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Night night :)
<Daviey> daubers: :D
<Azelphur> http://blog.cyphermox.net/2012/03/call-for-testing-bluez-a2dp-and-hsphfp.html has anyone ever got this to work?
<Azelphur> I want it :(
<yothsoggoth> Can anybody recommend which UK Linux magazine is any good?
<Azelphur> why do you want to buy dead trees o.O
<yothsoggoth> to read?
 * yothsoggoth hides from judgment behind a (live) tree
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> yothsoggoth: I dunno about magazines, generally the place to get info is online.
<yothsoggoth> Any particular sites to recommend then? :P. I do often check omgubuntu and planet.(distro)... but I thought magazines might have something more that's worth reading
<Azelphur> I'd imagine it's the opposite, the web has much more content available than a dead tree :P
<Azelphur> reddit.com/r/linux has good stuff if your ok with community generated content and the occasional question mixed in
<yothsoggoth> Yeahh, I just thought that magazines might have some nice tutorials and stuff. reddit seems like a good place to read!
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-19
<christel> GOOD MORNING \o/
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> hullu diplo duplo \o/
<diplo> :)
 * diplo is waiting to get told off for transferring 4gb of files from Nottingham to here
<diplo> Failed over night :(
<christel> auchies :(
<diplo> Well I could say, I can do it uncompressed if you like which equals 27GB :)
<christel> *grin*
<christel> aaah.. 9am! i should stop procrastinating and enter Work Mode (iow, i should procrastinate over work instead)
<diplo> I can't be bothered to work tbh either
<christel> mmm
<christel> i am tired
<diplo> Seems it's just you and me this morning christel
<czajkowski> no am here
<czajkowski> just am pooped
<diplo> heh, it's got to be the weather as so am I
<diplo> Night before last didn't get to sleep till 4:30, and last night didn't make it feel any better :/
<christel> just as we thought we had the channel all to ourselves... ;)
 * christel tickles czajkowski 
<czajkowski> ello :)
<christel> how are you my wonderfully pretty girl?
<czajkowski> sleepy
<czajkowski> oh so sleepy
<czajkowski> was in bed at 9 last night
<christel> too much sleep? :)
<czajkowski> no I've ben awake since 5
<czajkowski> just tired
<christel> auchies
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> just reading this article about unity on Fedora http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE0Mjc
<AlanBell> what I don't understand is that reading the article it appears that unity is not in any way in Fedora, but in OpenSUSE
<AlanBell> which is I guess RPM files
<christel> morning AlanBell
<christel> that would indeed appear to be written in a somewhat confusing manner
<AlanBell> I suppose the screenshots are of Fedora running those openSUSE packages or something, I think the openSUSE build service is like launchpad PPAs or something
<christel> one of my clients just sent me a shedload of "really urgent work" and then went "But please make yourself a coffee and have a little break before you start, haha :)" -- i suspect whatever they've just sent through is complete and utter bollocks
<christel> perhaps
<christel> (they don't normally tell me to have a break when something is "really urgent") o.O
 * AlanBell has an overwhelming number of OpenERP leads to call. Too much open source business out there :S
<christel> that's good!
<diplo> Good work boys, your name is getting around and in a good way it seems :)
<AlanBell> it is a nice problem to have, but I am not really a natural salesperson
<diplo> Same issue for me, can take sales but selling a product i find hard
<AlanBell> I don't like phoning people at the best of times, and I have 26 enquries to follow up this morning
<christel> sok, you just need to hire someone with an amazing telephone voice to woo them into saying yes
<christel> simplez
 * diplo has a feeling christel is selling herself here
<christel> hahaha
<christel> nah, he can't afford me ;)
<christel> (and i don't have an amazing telephone voice!)
<diplo> Do you and TheOpenSourcerer share the task AlanBell ?
 * christel sounds like an Angry Man 
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, he has another 26
<diplo> \o/
<diplo> That sounds great
<diplo> I've pointed a couple of people in your direction in the last couple of months as well.
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<christel> hiya JamesTait :)
<diplo> morning JamesTait
<AlanBell> I am going to be phoning people and saying "hi, I am calling because you downloaded openERP and gave your details requesting a followup call, I do hope you are coping quite well all by yourself and don't need any assistance from me"
<JamesTait> christel, diplo: o/ How are we this morning?
<christel> we are gooood \o/ thyself?
<diplo> Good thanks, albeit finding it a little hard to start working
<christel> AlanBell: oh you're not even cold calling, this will be easy peasy! <3
<popey> AlanBell, yes, they used opensuse build service to make RPMs for fedora.
<diplo> ah right, so you get your leads from openerp site and they forward them to you ?
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, openERP Belgium don't deal with customers directly, they pass out leads to the official partners
<diplo> Nice, when I was in Electrical Wholesaling the suppliers did the same.
<JamesTait> christel: I'm well, thanks. :)  Nearly the school holidays.  Not sure if I'm looking forward to it or dreading it. :-P
<christel> hehe i think a bit of both is allowed! ;)
<JamesTait> christel: And I suspect it will turn out to be exactly that!
<AlanBell> gosh, just got someone's voicemail message saying they are on annual leave for the rest of the year!
<diplo> Good to be them AlanBell ! :)
<popey> hah, forgot to reset it in december?
<czajkowski> did they win the lotto
<popey> well, january
<popey> or they left
<AlanBell> popey: probably
<popey> JamesTait, ours broke up last week. luckily they've been out quite a bit
<popey> although sophie decided she would like to play basketball outside my office window when i was on a call yesterday
<JamesTait> popey: Heh, I know that feeling.
<JamesTait> popey: To be fair to the boys, they're usually pretty good.  And when I'm not on a call, I'm fine with them playing out in the garden and making a noise - I can mostly blank it out, and if not then I put music on.
<JamesTait> popey: I'm spending a lot of time remote pairing at the moment and for the most part it's been fine, even with the boys making a noise.
<popey> yeah, usually its fine
<popey> need to get my garage done though, or find a co-working space
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<andylock1an> howdy all
<popey> hello andylock1an
<Twinkletoes> Howdy
<dogmatic69> Anyone got a raspberry pi thingy yet?
<AlanBell> yup
<dogmatic69> they run linux right?
<AlanBell> yes, debian and a few other things
<dogmatic69> well, a flavour of
<brobostigon> i do believe there is also and android port for it.
<brobostigon> an*
<dogmatic69> Do you know if something like minicom would run on it?
<dogmatic69> and ssh / scp
 * AlanBell does sudo apt-get install minicom
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: are those standard if you have the openssh package?
<dogmatic69> not sure, ssh comes with openssh server iirc
<brobostigon> also, yes.
<dogmatic69> and scp, no idea. Think its std on ubunut
<dogmatic69> man scp says "see ... sshd"
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: minicom runs
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: nice
<AlanBell> and ssh/scp is standard
 * dogmatic69 goes to order one
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: has it got the ports you want?
<dogmatic69> I got a vinyl cutter that runs on usb, so with the raspberry pi it can be standalone. no need for a "pc" within usb cable length
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dogmatic69> Just usb + cat5 I guess
<dogmatic69> for this particular usage
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yes, that should all work then
<dogmatic69> nice
<dogmatic69> this home network is getting rather large, might need to employ a network admin soon :/
<BigRedS> Anyone know a way to wholesale change the loglevel of *all* iptables rules
<BigRedS> ?
 * AlanBell downloads the new optimised Raspbian version of debian
<popey> yeah, i downloaded that, be interested to see if its actually quicker
<popey> http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/content/video#ls_schedule might be worth watching at about 5pm today
<christel> oh yes it is supposed to make use of the float point hardware isnt it
<AlanBell> the torrent completed before I finished rummaging in my desk drawer for another SD card to put it on
 * popey calls the police..
<popey> using torrents eh? must be a criminal
<diplo> Did you guys read the blog post ref armel / armhf or what ever the difference is
<diplo> ?
<diplo> And the differences in speed
<popey> its like the difference between a 386SX and a 386DX
 * AlanBell had a 486DX33
<AlanBell> was faster than the IBM blue lighting chips which were 66Mhz with no floating point coprocessor
<diplo> Never had anything that old
<popey> my first pc was 8MHz 8086
<popey> mono
<popey> no graphics
<diplo> :)
<diplo> I've seen and run them, but my school didn't have any pc's till i left / last year
<diplo> My first PC was a 500mhz thing, can't remember what now :)
<jussi> popey: I had similar... but mine was a "Laptop"
<directhex> moo
<popey> heh
 * directhex moos
<AlanBell> before the 486 which I built I had an Amiga (which was better than the PC) and before that a spectrum+2
<jussi> ie, a crt screen, with integrated computer and 5.25 floppies, and a keyboard that attached to the front...
<jussi> Mum and dads first pc was a tandy 1000! :D
<diplo> jussi: My brother had something like that
<diplo> Very heavy
<diplo> Still at home somewhere I believe
<dwatkins> My first computer ran at 4 MHz.
<jussi> diplo: yeah, crazy huge
<diplo> http://www.mycomputerguard.com/pictures/image/middle_weird-laptop.jpg
<diplo> Bit like that
<AlanBell> a friend of mine had a tandy, it had analogue joystick inputs which meant it could basically read 64 levels of resistance of anything you felt like plugging into the x and y axis pins
<AlanBell> so we did some interesting hacks with it, which is the kind of thing I want kids to do with the Raspberry pi
<christel> :)
<diplo> How old are your kids AlanBell ?
<diplo> If you dont mind
<AlanBell> 8,10,11
<christel> they are dreadfully cute, look nothing like their dad!
 * christel hides
<diplo> heh
 * AlanBell carefully types the dd command to put the image on the SD card
<diplo> yeah I do want to do stuff with my eldest who will turn 6 in Sept, but I try to keep him away from computers at the mo and rather he enjoys outside
<diplo> But i read what other people have their kids doing and wonder if I'm holding them back
<christel> the furthest we've ventured geek-wise is playing with squishy circuits
<christel> though the boy wonder is only 2.5
<diplo> yeah I remember you mentioning that christel
<diplo> I do have a little more cash now so may order some now.
<christel> yes! tonnes of fun :D
<diplo> I guess I didn't want to push my geekyness on them, but they love technology as i guess all kids do really
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Gah, it's already Thursday. Where is my holiday going?
<diplo> Spent online MAN!
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Get outside or with the wifffey
<davmor2> bigcalm: we have paid a cheque in on a 407 SW we went for the 1.6L Sport HDI Â£100 tax cat 8 insurance :)
<bigcalm> Aww
<dogmatic69> lol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-18890901
<bigcalm> I have a feeling the 1.6 won't have the same oomf that you felt with my 2.0. But I might be wrong :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: thanks again for letting me try yours very useful :)
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: where did you get yours?
<bigcalm> You're welcome
<davmor2> bigcalm: so it 9bhp more than the one we have so I was expecting it's power and it has slightly more shockingly,  but it is a bit more streamlined than our house brick styled 306 SW
<bigcalm> :D
<christel> diplo: yeah, i love the way the boy wonder is curious about * atm :)
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: farnell
 * diplo might order his rasp today
<dogmatic69> damn, can only order 1
<diplo> really, should be able to order more now
<diplo> as of a few days ago
<dogmatic69> bah. "Despatch expected in 19 week(s)"
<dogmatic69> yes! skipped the queue. should have one by monday
<diplo> Skipped the Q ?
<MartijnVdS> queueueueueue
<dogmatic69> raspberry pi
<diplo> yeah I meant how did you skip the Q ?
 * AlanBell wonders how to get unity running on Raspbian
<dogmatic69> oh, ebay
<diplo> ah
<dogmatic69> should have one monday :)
<diplo> paying Â£45 for it ?
<dogmatic69> 42 + 4.99 for shipping
<popey> AlanBell, do you have some chalk and a chicken?
<AlanBell> popey: funnily enough, yes!
<popey> draw a pentagram on the floor
 * AlanBell starts by installing compiz
<daubers> popey: fresh or frozen?
<bigcalm> Breakfast at 12ish is wonderful
<oimon> raspbian sounds like some sexual deviancy
 * BigRedS had assumed it was
<oimon> christel, my 2.5 year old saw a real photo frame and called it a tablet
<oimon> it had a black border and glass screen, and does look rather like my hp tablet
<oimon> which he knows his way round rather well
<bigcalm> It's the way of the future
<brobostigon> very cute.
<bigcalm> My office is a mess. I need a maid
<gord_> you need to be less messy
<bigcalm> Bah
<christel> oimon: haha fantastic :D
<dogmatic69> anyone running ubuntu server on raspberry pi?
<popey> you can't yet
<popey> we don't support the arm rev used in the pi
<dogmatic69> just saw something saying that :/
<dogmatic69> I guess its in the pipes?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: not the official pipes
 * popey shrugs
<bigcalm> The pipes need cleaning
<christel> clogged are they
<bigcalm> Sounds like it
<AlanBell> it isn't going to be an important platform for Ubuntu in any way really
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: what do you have running on yours?
<dogmatic69> or what is your plans / use for it
<AlanBell> at the moment I have it on my desk as a third screen, I was using it with synergy so controling the keyboard and mouse from my laptop
<AlanBell> just using it for ssh stuff really
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<AlanBell> running this on Saturday: http://raspberryjamsurrey.eventbrite.com/
<AlanBell> hoping to get some interesting ideas going
<dogmatic69> oh
<dogmatic69> short notice or I would have come. Already promised the GF some odd jobs around the house :/
<popey> uhoh
 * popey wonders if he has dropped offline
<christel> popey: yes.
<popey> hmm, my desktop can't see gb.archive.ubuntu.com
<popey> and now it can.. how odd
<bigcalm> It has 9 IPv4 addresses and one IPv6 address
<bigcalm> Greedy
<bigcalm> Poor man's load balancing
<jpds> popey: Hi.
<popey> yo
<popey> jpds, gb.a.u.c went a bit stally there for a while
<daubers> AlanBell: Mines going to be acting as an MQTT-S gateway
 * christel yawns
<christel> what should i make for lunch? :)
<bigcalm> Bacon
<brobostigon> jerk chicken
<christel> hrmm maybe i should stuff a chicken breast with some cream cheese and wrap with bacon and bake
<christel> omnom
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> christel: Food!
<christel> indeed!
<daubers> christel: Roast a duck!
<daubers> Now I have this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM in  my head
<christel> i love duck!
<bigcalm> Quack
<christel> :)
<brobostigon> meep
<christel> i am semi-bored
<christel> aww butterflies
<davmor2> quick someone down Souff drive christel to a pub before she drives us all mad with her talk of butterflies
<christel> they are pretty!
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod! Hello I forgot earlier
<christel> though pub sounds most tempting, but i should refrain :)
 * diplo just got back from a lovely pub lunch!
<bigcalm> Pub last night was fun
<bigcalm> Introduced Hayley to the Pie Factory
<christel> i fear i don't know it
<bigcalm> http://www.madorourkes.com/
<christel> ooh i thought it was somewhere with Just Pies
<dwatkins> ooh, ufw is a nifty and simple firewall - didn't realise it was installed by default, either.
<davmor2> dwatkins: indeed it is :)
<davmor2> dwatkins: if you want a nice simply gui you you can install gufw too
<davmor2> bigcalm: more important did she like it :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: she did indeed. She also got on well with James and Gretchen
<davmor2> Yay does that mean she might start coming to lug meetings and keep gretchen company :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: nope. It was as an introduction to playing cards
<davmor2> bigcalm: Okay....
<bigcalm> I'm sure you'll learn more on Wednesday next week :D
<dwatkins> davmor2: the amusing part was that during the time it took to install gufw as well, I found the syntax of what I wanted to do at the command line :)
<davmor2> we are shooting things then not playing cards :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed we are. I mean you can find out why the 4 of us went to the Pie Factory :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I might have my new car by then too :D
<christel> VROOM VROOM
<christel> what happens on wednesday?
<christel> oh lug meeting!
 * christel goes back to fighting with indesign 
<christel> AlanBell: i'm pretty disappointed that there hasn't been a Happy Hour since March!
<bigcalm> Ooh ooh
<bigcalm> !
<bigcalm> Happy hour at the end of September maybe?
<bigcalm> Or just a Farnhamesk gathering
<AlanBell> this is a very good point
<christel> AlanBell: i feel you are neglecting your "looking after the community" duties
<christel> appropriate punishment will ensue
<christel> bigcalm: did you have Dates yet? :)
<AlanBell> so, where should there be a happy hour?
<christel> AlanBell: EVERYWHERE (farnham)
<bigcalm> christel: last Thursday in September I think is when things happen
<bigcalm> christel: I will have to double check
<christel> though if The List is supposed to be In Order then i guess.. oxford?
<AlanBell> the list doesn't have to be considered to be in order
<AlanBell> oxford we would do in term time
<christel> so that we can eye up young students?
<bigcalm> :O
<christel> er, i mean. because there is more people there
<AlanBell> one of those, yes
<bigcalm> Sounds idea to me
<AlanBell> there should probably be a wolverhampton one
 * christel nods
<bigcalm> We've already had a Wolverhampton one, but we could do with another
<AlanBell> where was the wolverhampton one?
<davmor2> AlanBell: at the moon under water
<bigcalm> We twined it with the Ubuntu pre-release
 * AlanBell goes to update the list/map
<christel> good boy!
<davmor2> christel: you say that like he is a pet dog :D
<bigcalm> I get the feeling that we are all christel's pets on Freenode
<AlanBell> when was the moon under water thing exactly?
<christel> haha sorry, that was not entirely intentional!
<christel> (woof)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: just before release of 12.04
<bigcalm> The Thursday before I think
<davmor2> AlanBell: the week before precise got released
<christel> :)
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ map updated
<AlanBell> my plans of drawing a cute picture of a chicken with the lines are not going well
<christel> haha
<AlanBell> I was trying to sort out a Southampton one but several people there didn't seem to get the concept
<christel> sok, you can turn it into a rabbit
<AlanBell> had someone turn up and tell me they were going to the pub that evening so could I make it a happy hour /o\
<christel> haha
<AlanBell> and the other locals didn't seem to get the point that they need to nominate a date and a pub at which they will commit to turning up
<gord> i got a leaflet through my door, "the local lottery for local people". i need to get out of this town... its turning into the league of gentlemen
<davmor2> https://www.zsl.org/zsl-london-zoo/news/the-gherkin-to-become-the-penguin,974,NS.html Yay gerkin linux
<davmor2> gord: you could come to wolverhampton and be normal like what we are
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> christel: Thursday 20th to Sunday 23rd
<christel> my that is one long happy hour
<christel> i don't know if i have that much happy in me!
<bigcalm> christel: these are the dates I have been told of
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> AH! BINGO!
 * christel does a little dance
<davmor2> christel: You'll be in a pub as long as you aren't an angry drunk I don't see why you wouldn't :D
<christel> Christel 1 - InDesign 0
<christel> i am always angry :(
<brobostigon> :(
<bigcalm> :(
<christel> people always describe me like that.. "oh christel? yeah, you know.. she's the angry one"
<christel> :(
<christel> and then i get really angry
 * davmor2 refuses to believe that christel is always angry 
<bigcalm> How on earth?
<bigcalm> christel: I've yet to see you angry
<christel> ssssh!
<bigcalm> Letting off steam?
<christel> haha
<davmor2> it's all that anger
<christel> mmm
<KungFuPanda> hi guys, any1 know how to resize partition by using GParted? there is a "key" icon in front of the driver I want to resize it?
<brobostigon> KungFuPanda: unmount it first.
<christel> bigcalm: come back to farnham for the rest of your holiday! noone else wants to go to the pub with me (apparently because i didn't want to go to the pub yesterday and they are all suffering!)
<KungFuPanda> if I unmount from / , is it going to lose all my data ?
<BigRedS> you can't unmount /
<BigRedS> you'll need to reboot into a livecd
<AlanBell> losing all data is a possible outcome of getting things wrong in gparted
<brobostigon> backup. :)
<BigRedS> oh yes
<KungFuPanda> but if I do it in right way, it should not lose all data? right ?
<BigRedS> it's also a possible outcome of using disks
<BigRedS> so have backups anyway :)
<brobostigon> KungFuPanda: there is always a chance, or it going tits up. nothing is ever a sure thing.
<BigRedS> KungFuPanda: yeah, what should happen is you resize the partition and the data stays there and the bit of the disk that's no longer in that partition is made up entirely of what was unused disk space
<BigRedS> but it's not especially hard to get it wrong
<BigRedS> I did it this morning...
<brobostigon> of it*
<KungFuPanda> thanks, I just got some unallocated space from window system, I want to add these to ubuntu, I will try now, if I am not back in 1 hour, then my system down, :P , wish me luck
<directhex> 2 new sales!
<directhex> the longest journey and dreamfall, Â£3.74 the pair. old school fantastic world adventuring. extra points for strong female protagonists
<christel> :)
<oimon> how can i make firefox less of a fail ?
<oimon> really sluggish with only 30 tabs open
<diplo> only....
<diplo> Don't have so many tabs ?
<diplo> Do you have G+/FB/Twitter in any of those tabs ?
<oimon> no twitter or fb but gmail and g+
<diplo> yeah, g+/twitter hit FF for me quite badly
<diplo> twitter more so
<oimon> so , using the internet breaks ff
<oimon> nope, still slow
<diplo> Using shed loads of js to refresh pages etc breaks browser JS engines im guessing
<diplo> right off home
<diplo> catch you laters
<oimon> news.google too seems to kill it
<oimon> might have to give up and use chrome
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<BigRedS> oimon: you'll also find that having mail breaks thunderbird
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7vF-AB7SF4&feature=player_embedded
<zleap> ohh if 12.04 stays on schedule we should be out before windows 8 on the 26th october
<zleap> sorry 12.10
<jacobw> moop :(
<bigcalm> popey: all looks good. So much I miss out on by not being a Unity user :(
<popey> yup, you do :)
<bigcalm> *pout*
<bigcalm> Get the boys in the lab to make Unity play nicely with my monitor/graphics card set-up :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Web App Integration In Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/19/web-app-integration-in-ubuntu/
<ali1234> i don't see what needs unity out of that
<ali1234> except for hud integration
<AlanBell> the web apps you mean?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> firefox already does all of that stuff
<AlanBell> the app can publish the unread items number to the launcher
<ali1234> big deal...
<ali1234> that's already in the indicator anyway
<AlanBell> agreed, but there it is
<AlanBell> oh and gmail goes in the indicator
<ali1234> notifications and indicators don't need unity
<ali1234> same for last.fm and the music indicator
<ali1234> if you have a sane way of switching windows then it's not really necessary to have a way to separate out the firefox windows that contain "apps" from all the others
<ali1234> if you don't just dump them all on a single icon by default that is
<AlanBell> yeah, we don't have a nice way to switch windows
<AlanBell> switching applications is easy though, so I guess they turn up separately in alt-tab
<ali1234> this seems to be separate .desktop files to run firefox in app mode, so they get their own icon and launcher
<ali1234> plus some extension to work with indicators
<Azelphur> is a cover of a song a copyright violation?
<Azelphur> eg playing a song on guitar and putting it on youtube
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> doesn't it fall under fair use?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> the performance and the composition are both covered
<ali1234> possibly held by different people
<Azelphur> sucks for my friend the musician then :p
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4482752/pix/all%20of%20my%20what.png at least people in South Sudan can still watch it? :D
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: you technically need a license to play a cd at a BBQ
<Azelphur> \o/
<AlanBell> shh
<AlanBell> singing in the shower is right out too
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: but.. how else do you prove you're not.. "having fun".. in the shower?
<AlanBell> in other news, who wants to do an Ubuntu hour?
<MartijnVdS> what's that?
<AlanBell> oh, a happy hour I mean
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: are you coming to Amsterdam? ;)
<MartijnVdS> DAB car radio.. worth it? Or should I stick with my FM radio for now, and get a DAB(+) one when I buy a new car?
<AlanBell> I would love to go to Amsterdam again
<AlanBell> anyone got the unity-webapps thing actually working?
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Sibelius on BBC Four... if you're feeling Finnish :)
<jacobw> it's taken for too long for DAB in vehicles
<Myrtti> hehe, am in Finland at the moment ;-)
<jacobw> i like reindeer
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: yes but do I want to spend â¬150ish on a new car radio, or do I wait a year (maybe two) and buy a new car with it built in :)
<Myrtti> jacobw: yes, they are tasty
<jacobw> :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: also, that 150â¬ radio comes with an antenna I need to stick on my window(?)
<ali1234> AlanBell: i can't install it because it depends on compiz :(
<AlanBell> whut!
<ali1234> the webapps thing
 * jacobw thinks new car is better
<AlanBell> gosh
<AlanBell> well I guess it depends on unity which depends on compiz
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: but.. l'expensive
<ali1234> i'm trying to find which packages you actually need to install
<AlanBell> /usr/share/unity-webapps/userscripts contains interesting looking stuff after you install it
<ali1234> i don't see anything firefox related in the dependencies
<jacobw> revival of mozilla prism?
<AlanBell> lots of .js files that get loaded into the page, greasemonkey style I think
<AlanBell> a .js file for each site it is integrating with
<ali1234> but but but omg ubuntu said i don't have to make a js file for every site
<MartijnVdS> One .js file to rule them all, and in the darkness bind dem
<AlanBell> I want to do an integration for openERP and vTiger (so not URL specific)
<MartijnVdS> them
<ali1234> i guess omg doesn't know what he's talking about as usual
<AlanBell> erm, yeah, I think the point is that they are already done in the package or something
<AlanBell> or could in theory be hosted by the site (which might help me with the openERP/vTiger stuff)
<AlanBell> if only it actually did anything at all :(
<ali1234> yeah, so it does need a script that has to be constantly updated when the site changes...
<ali1234> just like every other implementation of this, lenses, pidgin etc
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and the GMail one (at least) specifically checks for divs called 'canvas_frame', 'hist_frame', 'js_frame' to be there in the isCorrectPage() function for example
<ali1234> the ppa is giving me partial upgrade warning now
<ali1234> the ppa has a newer version of unity too
<AlanBell> window.Unity = external.getUnityObject(1); is probably where the magic happens, wonder if I can get to that with firebug
<ali1234> and a patched chromium
<ali1234> oh, so they've added an explicit API so apps can make multiple launcher icons for running instances?
<AlanBell> external.getUnityObject is not a function
<ali1234> you probably didn't install the upgraded unity and then log out and log in again?
<AlanBell> I didn't install the upgraded unity, but I did log out and back in
<AlanBell> I am running 12.10
<ali1234> unity (2 5.12.0-0ubuntu3~webapps7)
<ali1234> you need that
 * directhex moos
<directhex> moo
<popey> unity 6 is in 12.10
<popey> so you need to wait for that to be patched
<AlanBell> not sure, the articles say nothing about needing that
<AlanBell> oh, so it doesn't work in 12.10 yet then?
<popey> discussion is happening in #ubuntu-webapps btw
<ali1234> actualy discussion, or just a bunch of people idling?
<ali1234> ah, i can install unity-webapps without the upgraded unity
<ali1234> that just pulls xul-ext-unity
<ali1234> presumably thats the firefox stuff
<ali1234> let's have account=plugin-google too
<ali1234> now i have two "online accounts" icons in system settings
<ali1234> ok google account authorzed
<ali1234> let's get the new indicator applets...
<ali1234> and now relog...
<ali1234> got nothing :(
<TheFred> hello
<christel> hiya TheFred :)
<TheFred> hello christel  - hope you've had a good day
<christel> it ahs been a bit of a rollercoaster of a day! but it is approaching Happy To Bed time ;)
<TheFred> cool, its good when your wanting sleep
<TheFred> its been one of those days for me too
<TheFred> started bad (desktop died) then got better (app is doing well on Google Play)
<TheFred> wohoo - new PC parts ordered for delivery tommorow :)
<MattJ> I know people here use multiple monitors... does anyone have problems with mouse movement along each axis being different?
<Azelphur> MattJ: nope
<AlanBell> MattJ: nope
<TheFred> yea - if the resolution is different
<MattJ> If I configure my monitors horizontally, horizontal movement becomes really fast
<MattJ> if I configure them vertically, I have the same problem in that direction
<MattJ> The resolution is indeed different
<MattJ> I can't work out if it's meant to be a bug or a feature
<TheFred> i had different monitors/cards and it was a pig until i fitted 2 identical graphics cards/monitos
<AlanBell> there are several things slightly broken with monitors with mismatched vertical sizes
<TheFred> I think its a feature - total 'screen' width is a function of mouse speed
<AlanBell> it isn't a feature, and it isn't a bug I have seen
<TheFred> id looked into it a while back  - seen lack of bug reports about it, hence my label of feature...
<MattJ> Well it *sounds* like a sensible feature
<TheFred> maybe correct label is a 'quirk'
<TheFred> :)
<MattJ> I mean, it means I can get anywhere on my (wide) desktop in equal time
<AlanBell> it doesn't happen for me
<TheFred> yea - but its a pain if your working with images
<MattJ> Indeed
<AlanBell> I use a laptop and sometimes an HD monitor by the side, the mouse behaves the same in both situations
<MattJ> I wonder if there's some xrandr magic I can fix it with
<MattJ> AlanBell, ok, thanks
<MattJ> AlanBell, what version of Ubuntu?
<TheFred> MattJ,  my workaround was to change mouse speed/sensitivity when in dual monitor mode
<AlanBell> MattJ: 12.04 and 12.10
<MattJ> TheFred, I did that too at first, but that doesn't work around the fact it's uneven
<AlanBell> moving your mouse in a circle should move the cursor in a circle, not an oval
<MattJ> I have a nice oval :)
<TheFred> i had that problem too with different resolutions.. but when i switched to identical cards/monitors it was ok
<MattJ> I have a touchpad, so I guess it's easier to adjust to than if I were using an external mouse
<TheFred> hmmmm.. just seen that the new CPU i ordered is a Celeron G530 which is 64 bit... im wondering if 32 bit version of Ubuntu will work ok?
<ali1234> yes it will work fine
<TheFred> thanks ali1234
<MattJ> Finally, at least someone mentions something like it: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42137
<TheFred> I didnt want to go 64 bit - it still seems problematic according to loads of posts on Ubuntu Forums
<MattJ> Though I'm not using VirtualBox...
<ali1234> ubuntu forums is full of misinformation
<TheFred> yea - i found that too sometimes
<TheFred> MattJ, I wish i could provide more data - but seeing as my desktop died this morning I cant check the settings to help you
<MattJ> TheFred, np
<MattJ> It's not urgent, I'll get used to it (have done before)
<MattJ> The problem is that I had my external monitor above my laptop one, and I just switched
<MattJ> I got used to it that way, and now the response is half what it should be in the direction I got used to it being twice what it should be
<TheFred> Im hoping i can get away with running the new m-board/CPU with the HDD as it is so I can backup some work I had done without a re-install
<MattJ> and it's a pain :)
<TheFred> I recall i used a keyboard shortcut with AutoKey to make the mouse 'switch' screen
<TheFred> alt+d+1 for center of desktop 1, and alt+d+2 for no 2
<MattJ> Interestingly I think it only affects my touchpad
<MattJ> i.e. not an external mouse
<TheFred> Its going to be such a leap with the parts I ordered. The desktop that died this morning was built in 1996 (1100Mhz) with DDR2, and the new CPU is 2.4Gz Dual core :)
<TheFred> MattJ, yes what ever you do dont connect 2 usb mice...
<MattJ> Ok, now I have to go and find another mouse...
<MattJ> and a PS/2 one as well, just to see what happens
<TheFred> I though I could map one mouse to each screen... it simply does not not create 2 mouse pointers with 2 mice  :)
<TheFred> ... I had to try..
<MattJ> TheFred, you /can/ do that though in recent versions of Ubuntu I believe
<MattJ> Not that I've tried it, requires some hacking
<MattJ> and I adore my touchpad
<TheFred> hmm... food for thought!
<TheFred> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8256/
<MattJ> Oh yay: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/621432
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 621432 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "Touchpad speed asymetrical (horizontal faster than vertical)" [Undecided,Triaged]
<TheFred> Is there any news (that i've missed) for Ubuntu on Raspberry Pi?
<ali1234> no
<TheFred> ok
 * TheFred pats news spider bot
<christel> oh god
<christel> i kidnapped a spider
<christel> when we were on the RAT
<christel> i actually drunkenly forced this tiny little spider into my handbag
<christel> (and was most disappointed not to be able to find it again when i returned home)
<ali1234> the other day i saw a weird mutant spider with 6 legs, and 2 of the legs grew out of it's "head" (yes i know spiders don't have heads) where the ... mandibles?... should be
<ali1234> so that was weird
<christel> !
<christel> i once tried to sell a six-legged spider on ebay
<christel> (they removed the listing mind)
<christel> though it was just a regular housespider that had lost two legs :s
<TheFred> lol, I once left a fresh pouch of tobacco open overnight to dry out a bit, rolled a ciggie in the morning and it stank like burnt hair/chicken - i was wondering what the cause was, and a 7 legged spider crawled out of the pouch!
<ali1234> gross
<TheFred> indeed
<christel> hahahaha
<TheFred> remember kids, I do the experiments so you dont have to....
<TheFred> This weeks experiment was: using a petrol strimmer as an outboard
<TheFred> it kinda works until the clutch gives out
<christel> i like you, you're strange and funny
<TheFred> conclusion: buy a proper motor
<TheFred> christel, thanks.... i think :)
<christel> hehe
<christel> <3
<TheFred> brb
<TheFred> meh - drunken yobs fighting outside - glad the police are around
<hamitron> it can't be dark down your street then ;)
<TheFred> nah - its all lit up because of the festival here
<christel> happy to bed time! nn lovelies <3
<TheFred> gnite christel
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-20
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> GOOD MORNING <3
<mattt> another jumper at hayes and harlington station, that's the 2nd in like a few weeks :(
<christel> auchies
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<christel> good morning bigcalm \o
<christel> i am contemplating having icecream for breakfast.. this is bad right?
<mattt> very
<mattt> don't
 * bigcalm tickles christel ello :)
<bigcalm> christel: sounds soothing to me, do it :)
<christel> i really really fancy closing my lips around one of those thorntons toffee temptation things :(
<mattt> haha
<mattt> it's too early to be reading things like that
<christel> they are really nice!
<christel> try one, now!
<mattt> too cold for icecream, let alone too early
<bigcalm> I like reading things like that this early. Helps wake me up
<christel> but SUN
<christel> there is SUN!
<bigcalm> Do carry on
<christel> you like reading about icecream because it wakes you up?!
<bigcalm> Stick some down somebody's top and it'll wake them up quite quickly
<christel> mmmgets a bit sticky though
<bigcalm> There may be some extra side effects, yes
<christel> and it is also a dreadful waste of icecream
 * christel nods
<christel> i'm a good girl so i shall listen to mattt (because he has MANY t's) and go have a coffee instead.. then i shall fantasize about having my icecream Later(!) \o/
<bigcalm> Mmm, morning beverage
<ali1234> black tea with 8 sugars?
<bigcalm> Gah
<AlanBell> tea, Earl Grey, hot </picard>
<bigcalm> Picard was quite hot, in his own way
 * diplo worries slightly for bigcalm 
<bigcalm> :D
<christel> was?! dude, patrick stewart is the hottest man on the planet
<christel> he might be like 750 by now.. but i so would
<christel> that was different
<MartijnVdS> christel: Hmmm.  Patrick Stewart as the next Doctor
<christel> MartijnVdS: YES
<christel> YESYESYESYES
<christel> someone just rang my doorbell wanting to talk to me about jesus
<MartijnVdS> christel: only if het gets to call his companion "Number one"
<christel> haha
<christel> <3
<AlanBell> that will happen when you live in a church
<christel> (it is the third time in 2 weeks that people came to talk to me about jesus)
<christel> i am going to buy one of those priestly collars i think
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I can imagine you in the role of Vicar of Dibley
<christel> AlanBell: it is quite amusing! this one lady always turns up 2 hours early for service, so i've taken to inviting her in for tea (as i feel dreadful for her when she sits outside in the rain)
<christel> and people keep coming to ask me when we next have a service
<christel> i might start taking confession i think
<bigcalm> Good morning popey
<christel> bigcalm: i'd make an excellent vicar i am sure!
<MartijnVdS> "I'd like to talk about the Flying Spaghetti Monster"
<bigcalm> Perfect
<bigcalm> Is there a maximum length for usernames in *nix?
<bigcalm> Sorry to be on topic so early :S
<oimon> christel, in my experience (and after further questioning) most people who door knock to talk about jesus are actually Jehovah's witness cult members
<christel> according to useradd 32 chars
<christel> this might or might not be correct
<christel> oimon: ah! i live in the old presbytery next to a catholic church -- they seem to want me to talk to them about jesus
<christel> or save them or something!
<BigRedS> oimon: JWs do consider themselves christians
<oimon> since they believe in salvation by works (as do most cults) , and therefore won't get to heaven unless they perform their sales targets
<oimon> BigRedS, they do not consider Jesus is God (divine), therefore are in no way christian
<oimon> but a christian-like cult
<bigcalm> christel: thank you :)
<christel> bigcalm: nae pee
<BigRedS> oimon: They consider Jesus a conduit of God's force or power, and something of a representative on earth
<oimon> there's quite a few lines in their version of the bible they forgot to change, so it's easy to get them using their own text
<popey> morning
 * AlanBell updates 12.10 in the hope that the webapps stuff will start working
<AlanBell> anyone tried it on 12.04 yet?
<ali1234> i got it mostly working
<popey> yup, i have it on 12.04
<oimon> canonical are getting quite good at springing these nice surprises
 * czajkowski prods popey 
<popey> hmm
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> another one!
<popey> The lunatics are taking over the asylum.
<bigcalm> Watched Batman Begins again last night, that's rather fitting
<bigcalm> Hopefully we'll watch The Dark Knight tonight
<popey> yeah, i fancy going to see that
<bigcalm> Oh, I meant on blu-ray
<bigcalm> We're re-watching things before going to the cinema
 * oimon wonders if the next thing to blu-ray will come out before i buy a bluray player
<bigcalm> How long did it take you to but a DVD player?
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :-D
<oimon> got a 2nd hand one off a colleague in about 2002
<oimon> or later
<JamesTait> popey: I hadn't realised the webapps thing was released on 12.04 yet? Do you have a link to the PPA?
<popey> ~webapps
<oimon> JamesTait, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/07/how-to-install-ubuntus-new-web-apps-feature
<JamesTait> Thanks. :)
<oimon> see how much money nokia lost ?
<oimon> looks like they won't be here anymore in 2 years
<directhex> nokia, like RIM, ran on hubris for too long whilst apple was redefining their market away from them
<oimon> yes
<oimon> and yahoo
<directhex> it's be disappointing if a company which started in 1865 was eventually killed by symbian
<oimon> killed by symbian?
<oimon> killed by lack of progress and bad decisions
<directhex> know how much nokia spent on r&d?
<directhex> without ever shipping any of it?
<oimon> progress requires a final goal, rather than aimless noodling
<directhex> and infighting
<oimon> took far too long on maemo type projects while android was rising fast
<directhex> maemo was being sabotaged internally on a daily basis
<oimon> by the time MS got involved it was all over, since they couldn't even piggyback the rising wave of android like samsung and htc have
<directhex> by middle managers whose jobs depended on symbian
<directhex> one of nokia's most closely guarded secrets is the sales figures for the n900
<oimon> the MS fanboy in the office has an htc phone. he is ex-MS and worships everything they do, but either the phone people were different, or he thinks WP sucks
<directhex> because if investors knew how that sold, whilst they were pushing the n97, they'd go mental
<oimon> i would have bought a n900 if it had a future
<popey> same here
<oimon> but 2 months after release it was clear it had none, and i bought an htc
<popey> instead i bought an android htc hero, hated it and switched to iphon
<popey> +e
<directhex> that's nokia for you, tbh
<oimon> my desire has been great, which i will keep until a phone comes out i can run ubuntu on
<oimon> (not atrix)
<directhex> today they're at the point where they have some genuinely nice smartphones, which can compete with ios/android empirically. but the nokia brand is in serious trouble (and so is the windows brand), so the devices aren't actually ending up in consumers' hands
<directhex> but it shouldn't have taken them until 2012 to have devices humans would want
<oimon> WP is less of the mobile market than ubuntu (not linux) is of the desktop market
<ali1234> WP is not a good product when your entire userbase is used to symbian
<oimon> my wife's desire screen got sat on, so i borrowed my mums spare phone, it's a metal nokia that's really nice
<ali1234> symbian would have continued to sell in huge numbers if they had not announced it's death prematurely
<directhex> WP7 has about 1/3 of the market as WM6
<directhex> and that's sad
<oimon> makes phone calls but not much else
<oimon> but as a handset its lovely
<oimon> reassuringly heavy for a small object
<oimon> somebody here has been sacked for their annoying ringtone
<gord> i like windows phone stuff, its pretty nice
<directhex> ali1234, sorry, but i really can't agree there. pretty much since the first iphone shipped, nokia's symbian smartphones have been staggeringly awful, and utterly uncompetitive with android or iphone. nobody would walk into carphone whorehouse and say "i want symbian please!" unless they sustained serious head trauma on the door frame whilst entering the store
<ali1234> you're totally missing the point
<directhex> the n97 was the competition with first-gen androids, and was a joke
<directhex> ultimately, in 2012, the product of the phone, and the product of the OS, is irrelevant. people are buying ecosystems.
<ali1234> if symbian was so terrible, why was it still selling more phones than anything else in 2010?
<directhex> you're not buying an iphone, you're buying the ios app store
<oimon> ali1234, 3rd world markets
<oimon> directhex, true, which is why webos failed - no ecosystem
<directhex> ali1234, because s40 gets counted in those statistics, and nokia still has the best distribution chain in third world markets
<ali1234> as i said the other day, android and iphone are not phones, they're toys that can sometimes make phone calls if you are lucky
<oimon> ali1234, i wouldn't know, i don't make phone calls :D
<ali1234> it's the same thing that happened to firefox
<ali1234> firefox used to provide a credible alternative to chrome
<ali1234> then someone decided that chrome was getting popular and the best way to compete with it was o make a bad copy of it
<ali1234> and surprisingly enough everyone started switching to chrome
<oimon> i've never used chrome, but i used to use chromium
<ali1234> except it's not surprising because if you don't like chrome, you really won't like a bad copy of it
<oimon> password management on chrom* is awful
<ali1234> if you like symbian and you don't like android and iphone, then you are really going to hate WP7
<AlanBell> I like firefox still, but I use chromium and chrome too for the hell of it. I like that firefox is now competing with chrome for speed.
<oimon> i don't kow why WP7  apps gets coverage on bbc click with such low market share
<directhex> if you like symbian and you don't like android and iphone, then both of the other people who feel like you can form a little club
<ali1234> nope. what actually happens is you choose the lesser evil, which is android, and WP7 dies a death
<ali1234> which is exactly what is happening now
<directhex> you're touting android as the better option for a smartphone which can actually make calls?
<ali1234> no
<directhex> have you ever *used* android? or wp7?
<brobostigon> [A
<ali1234> there is no such thing as a smartphone (by the current definition) which can reliably make phone calls
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<ali1234> so since they are all equally bad on that measure you have to look at something else
<directhex> you have a twisted definition of "equally"
<ali1234> if i try to make a phone call but cannot and then have to reset the phone, then it's bad
<oimon> ali1234, i've never had to reset my android
<ali1234> i have never seen this happen on a symbian phone, ever
<oimon> or failed to make a call (unless in bad reception area)
<ali1234> i've seen it happen on every other type of phone though, on a regular basis
<oimon> but you've never used android?
<ali1234> no, that's just directhex making stuff up
<oimon> seriously, nobody i know has this proble,
<ali1234> i have an android phone here
<oimon> except for ihpone users who's phone have hung and they couldn't remove the battery
<ali1234> it has to be reset every day in order to make or receive calls
<oimon> which phone?
<ali1234> samsung galaxy
<ali1234> it's a known bug as well
<oimon> send it back
<ali1234> google for "emergency calls only"
<BigRedS> ali1234: mine enver did that
<oimon> hardware or software?
<BigRedS> *never
<ali1234> firmware
<ali1234> it's pretty obviously caused by the radio rom
<popey> i dont have this issue with iphone 4s
<popey> even with the beta version of ios I'm running on it
<ali1234> the application software makes no difference
<oimon> ali1234, you are judging all smartphones by one problem affecting a few usres
<ali1234> that's just this phone
<directhex> "my android sucks therefore windows phone is terrible" is extremely well-reasoned and well-thought-out reasoning
<ali1234> windows phone is also terrible, though for slightly different reasons
<ali1234> it crashes just as much sure. but it is also extremely limited in terms of configuration
<oimon> whether WP is good or bad is irrelevant since it won't gain market share
<oimon> my android never crashes
<directhex> oimon, well, it might, given nokia's previously mentioned supply chain
<ali1234> if you're used to symbian email/exchange stuff, WP7 is a joke
<directhex> oimon, selling wp7 to iphone fanatics in the west is an uphill battle, but selling it to people with dumbphones in india or china? much better mark
<ali1234> microsoft should have teamed up with RIM instead of nokia
<ali1234> RIM is failing hard because their phones were aimed at business users but bought by teenagers
<ali1234> nokia is failing because their phones are aimed at teenagers but bought by business users
<ali1234> WP7 with all it's social stuff and gaming and xbox tie ins is a good fit for the teenager market
<directhex> and msoffice. teens love msoffice.
<ali1234> literally nobody at all likes ms office
<gord> no i think teenagers still want an iphone
<brobostigon> agreed, here where i live, if you are younger, you wouldnt be seen really, with anything else.
<directhex> gord, yep. you want an iphone, you gawk at the price, and the salesman says "well, this samsung galaxy is almost an iphone, but half the price", and walk away adding to google's android activation figures
<directhex> sunrise, sunset
<brobostigon> almost an iphone, lol.
<BigRedS> that's what the courts said!
<brobostigon> they couldnt be more different,
<AlanBell> they could be plenty more different
 * AlanBell looks forward to an Ubuntu phone
<brobostigon> true,
 * brobostigon looks forward to his new toy for his birthday, 
<BigRedS> many of the issues I have with android stem from it being an iOS clone
<ali1234> yep, same
<brobostigon> well, the decision for me, was either going with qnx or android. pnly viable systems.
<directhex> brobostigon, trust me, when the salesman is selling, it's almost an iphone. "well it's just like an iphone, but it costs less, and you can do things you can't do with an iphone!"
<directhex> notice how well samsung sells, with their totally-not-almost-an-iphone android skin
<ali1234> touchwiz?
<ali1234> it's horrible
<brobostigon> directhex: thats a very vague, but close description, if you want to read into it.
<directhex> it's vile
<ali1234> and it crashes all the time
<directhex> htc have the best of the horrible vendor-added android skins, which is depressing
<BigRedS> Ah! Maybe mine didn't 'cause I stuck a different image on it
<brobostigon> directhex: i have never played with there skin, so couldnt comment,
<BigRedS> I treat Android phones like I used to treat Windows PCs
<directhex> even huawei have their own skin now
<BigRedS> first thing you do is reinstall without the crapware
<directhex> BigRedS, if you can. lots of locked bootloaders on the market
<brobostigon> BigRedS: or get a nexus, whch is basic android with none of that adware.
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah, i'd not buy a phone that wouldn't let me
<BigRedS> brobostigon: Yeah, I did nearly do that when I got the S3, but I figured I'd still end up sticking different images on it anyway
<directhex> BigRedS, just remember that you are a statistical blip.
<brobostigon> that is the good thing about my htc dream, it was unlocked and fully open, from the start,
<brobostigon> BigRedS: true point, as i had to with my htc dream.
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah, I'm generally something of an anomaly it seems
<directhex> BigRedS, my attitude to android roms is it shouldn't be needed - if the out of the box experience is so crap that people are advised to bin it, then the out of the box experience is unfit for purpose. this includes, but is not limited to, vendors saying "2.3 is the only android version you will ever get, muahahaha"
<brobostigon> BigRedS: last version they released for it, was android 2.1, i now have 2.3.7 , something newer wont work, due to storage and ram limitations.
<BigRedS> directhex: it's not that OOTB is crap per se, just that there's several custom images knocking around that I prefer
<brobostigon> but there are some android 4 version, that will work on the dream.
<BigRedS> lots of people are quite happy with it, and I don't *dislike* them, but sometimes there's something else that I prefer and so I'll use that
<directhex> BigRedS, every time i need to use my wife's phone, i find myself needing to resist throwing it through the wall
<brobostigon> i think the only way to guarentee, is a nexus, or adp* .
<directhex> nexus superseded adp
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> directhex: i am just saying adp to inlcude my htc dream in the equation.
<directhex> well the dream isn't quite an adp1, iirc. missing camera? i don't remember the specifics
<brobostigon> the dream has a back facing camera.
<directhex> yeah, th adp1 doesn't iirc
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> close enough then.
<directhex> http://wiresareobsolete.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/android-dev-phone-1.jpg
<diplo> That conversation died a quick death, thought my irssi/byobu session had broke
<diplo> ah it didn't :D
<diplo> I was paged up ffs!
 * diplo goes back to bed
<BigRedS> Yeah, the ADP1, Dream and G1 were all identical as far as I was aware
<brobostigon> directhex: that has a camera, it is behind that white thing on the back.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i agree,
<directhex> i saw a teenage girl with a g1 at alton towers once. not what i expected the target market to be
<brobostigon> cool
<diplo> !info lint
<lubotu3> Package lint does not exist in precise
<diplo> Hmm, having a blonde morning... CSS code tidier uperer / cleaner ?
<diplo> !info csstidy
<lubotu3> csstidy (source: csstidy): CSS parser and optimiser. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.4-3 (precise), package size 119 kB, installed size 336 kB
<popey> directhex, my nieces used to have hand-me-down phones, so often had unexpected phones for their demographic
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Why does CentOS have to suck so much :(
<BigRedS> because it's got to be like rh
<directhex> diplo, because red hat sucks so mush
<directhex> bah @ BigRedS
<directhex> too slow :(
<oimon> guys
<oimon> i have centos5 machines on vmware, hdparm is giving 50MB/s, 6.x gives 130MB/s
<oimon> don't wanna have to upgrade, any ideas?
<brobostigon> eeeek system load of 200+.
<directhex> kernel backport?
<directhex> brobostigon, nothing wrong with that. you have 256 cores, right?
<oimon> wondering if it's scsi drivers or sometihng else
<brobostigon> directhex: no, just running apt-get update on my eeepc.
<BigRedS> poor thing
<dwatkins> Has the next version of Ubuntu after 12.10 been given a name yet?
<BigRedS> "Thirteen oh four"
<dwatkins> heh, so long as it's not something rabbit, as there's a commercial product I can think of that conflicts ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD! morning
<zleap> wahh  a lot of people wanted rampant rabbit
<daubers> dwatkins: I'll put 5p on Raging Rhino
<dwatkins> daubers: yeah, that's a lot less suggestive, at least :)
<dwatkins> zleap: I'm sure they do, but there's a trademark
<dwatkins> ...amusing as it is
<zleap> ok
<daubers> and 5p on Respectful Rhebok
<zleap> yeah i think the idea thsat it was suggestive was the reason it was popular,  mind you that would attract attention i guess
<dwatkins> it's not really in keeping with the spirit of ubuntu, though
<zleap> yeah
<directhex> rectangular ringworm
<zleap> what is a rhebok anyway,
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Rhebok
<zleap> thanks
 * zleap is working on a short article for local community magfazine thing on the raspberry PI
<zleap> magazine
<directhex> relevant rattlesnake
<zleap> when is the next podcast deadline ?
<directhex> rhodesian ridgeback
<oimon> just receivedd some very useful help in #centos \o/
<zleap> :)
<popey> zleap, for uupc?
<zleap> yeah
<popey> deadline for what?
<zleap> send in stuff trying to promote the penzance hackspace and the PI jam being organised in August
<oimon> US gunman kills 14 at batman film :(
<oimon> 50 injured
<zleap> i saw that,
<popey> zleap, next show is 31 july
<zleap> ok
<zleap> can this get a mention please http://penzanceraspberryjam.eventbrite.com/
<christel> mmmmjam
<zleap> i know its in deepest cornwall but there may be people on holiday at the time or people in cornwall listening to the podcast
<brobostigon> woop, my nexus7 just got delivered for my birthday. 2 day delivery, impressive.
<zleap> brobostigon, nice
<brobostigon> zleap: yes. :)
<zleap> happy birthday btw
<brobostigon> zleap: my birthday is in a weeks time, the 27th.
<popey> brobostigon, where'd you order from?
<brobostigon> popey: google themselves.
<oimon> whats the diff between nexus 7 and samsung tab 2 7inch?
<oimon> who make the nexus?
<brobostigon> asus make the nexus7.
<oimon> ah
<brobostigon> i am not familier with the tab2's specs.
<selinuxium> And as an official Google product you will get the updates straight from Google and not wait for the branding process to happen..
<brobostigon> yes,
<selinuxium> I am still waiting for ICS (officially) on my Galaxy S2... Had to root it and install myself..
<diplo> oimon: Ref #centos, gotta be a first ?
<diplo> :P
<oimon> there was an extremely helpful and knowledgeable guy in there. he'll burnout soon
 * MartijnVdS loves his JB Galaxy Nexus
<diplo> I stopped going there as i found them rude and unhelpful
<czajkowski> diplo: spoilt by #ubuntu-uk
<czajkowski> not all channels are like Ubuntu channels
<diplo> yeah, I've been in irc channels for 10 years + i guess but more quakenet
<diplo> And tbh most of the quakenet channels I hung about in were like this one
<diplo> #perl sucks as well
<diplo> but some others are very good
<daubers> selinuxium: Which operator are you with?
 * daubers has ICS on his S2 and JB on his Galaxy nebus
<daubers> s/nebus/nexus
 * czajkowski loves JB!
<directhex> and they still don't have >honeycomb on UK xooms
<oimon> what's actually better about jellybean ?
<selinuxium> t-mobile...
<daubers> oimon: The cards thing is quite nice... not much difference otherwise really
<oimon> cards? like webos?
<oimon> don't think it's ready for touchpad anyway...
<daubers> oimon: A bit. They're little information things that appear when they're useful. Like mine tells me the traffic on the way home at about 5:30 every day
<oimon> cute
<oimon> trying hard to contain my rage at the useless contractor we have on site
<diplo> oimon: IT Contractor ?
<selinuxium> daubers, I am on t-mobile. Who are you with?
<davmor2> directhex: they have 3.2 on UK Xooms
<davmor2> directhex: it's ICS they don't have
<daubers> selinuxium: Vodafone
<directhex> davmor2, still useless, buckets of new APIs in ICS
<davmor2> directhex: indeed and they were meant to be rolling out ICS this month and then Google announced that the xoom will be getting JB by the end of the month
<MartijnVdS> only if you have the US firmwares
<oimon> diplo, yeah, oodles of them
<diplo> I hate them oimon, generic i know but 90% of the ones I had in I just wanted to screwam at
<diplo> scream*
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: for the wifi noly I don't see why there is a difference the hardware is the same, it is only the 3g models that would change
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: US version doesn't have dutch localisation
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: but I think it does have GB localisation
<MartijnVdS> I can check that tonight
<oimon> diplo, these consultants are making me prejudiced against people from a certain area of the country
<diplo> heh
<christel> rawr
<MartijnVdS> oimon: the north?
<christel> is grim?
<brobostigon> geordies ?
<christel> there are grim geordies up north.
<directhex> i think you're confusing things
<directhex> it's not grip up north
<directhex> it's definitely grim oop norf
<daubers> directhex: It's becuase they just cannae dee it capn, they doona have the poowah!
<directhex> they cannae break the laws of physics?
<daubers> After a few tinnies, they believe they can
<KungFuPanda> hi guys, how do I know the nvidia drive be installed successfully? I can see the nvidia X server settings.
<directhex> KungFuPanda, that's probably enough, then
<oimon> MartijnVdS, not gonna be specific to save the guilty
<KungFuPanda> my system lose all animation, even the dash panel is not transparent.
<oimon> diplo, still on cinnamon :D
<oimon> however unity keep adding cool features that i will probably never use but intrigue me
<directhex> i'm waiting for gnome 4, which just has one giant button, and you click it, and it does the right thing
<christel> hrmph
<KungFuPanda> used to be something in desktop, you can choose no effect , half effects, extra effects, where is it now ?
<KungFuPanda> when you right click mouse, there is used to be something ?
<diplo> Im back on unity, but still 2d. Will try full one again soon
<diplo> Still use Gnome do to launch apps rather than super key
<diplo> As super === teh sloooooooooooow
<diplo> &frac14
<diplo> oops
<diplo> :)
<popey> diplo, slow at what?
<diplo> opening
<diplo> Do opens instantly
<diplo> 2-3 secs i guess for unity's
<gord> the first time you open the dash it should be slow, but not the times after that
<diplo> Nope, every time for me pretty much
<diplo> http://askubuntu.com/questions/55342/unitys-dash-is-slow-and-taking-couple-of-seconds-until-its-shown
<diplo> Never played with ccsm since 10.* days if then i reckon
<oimon> can i use wine apps in unity 3d yet?
<popey> i do
<popey> i play limbo in unity 3d, that's using wine isn't it?
<oimon> struggled with picasa and others
<oimon> could not retrieve the window if i minimised it
<oimon> due to launcher buggery
<popey> sounds like a bamf bug
<gord> its more due to wine apps being almost impossible to track
<oimon> it stops the missis from using 3d since picasa > shotwell
<gord> there is the regular linux version of picasa of course, but its several versions behind
<gord> not sure why they decided to stop building that
<oimon> however one of the worst bugs in ubuntu is the one where i am logged in another session, and she clicks shutdown, and it lobs you back to login screen
<oimon> only recently introduced
<oimon> bug 861171
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 861171 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "Shutdown from greeter does nothing when multiple accounts open" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861171
<oimon> popey, is limbo supposed to stutter?
<oimon> seems jittery to me, unsure if it's video card related
<popey> what an odd question to ask
<oimon> ?
<oimon> limbo is a weird game so i wondered if the sluggishness was a feature
<oimon> watching youtube videos is incocnlusive
<dogmatic69> got my raspberry pi today, not bad considering it was ordered yesterday
<zleap> that was quick
<oimon> would be even more impressive if it was vice versa
<zleap> yeah
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> I would be slightly worried if that happened
<zleap> an quantum mechanics effect before cause
<oimon> is rasbian the one to go for?
<oimon> can't make the g+ red 1 go away :(
<zleap> probably,  not sure on the status of the fedora port,  i think they fixed the issues didn't they
<oimon> not sure what issues were but saw a tweet saying latest rasbian was much better
<oimon> what a creepy word
<zleap> there were issues to start with,  which was months ago
<oimon> double checked the youtube vids and limbo sticks and stutters in places too, don't know if it's the screencap software though
<oimon> bug 998591
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 998591 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher icon missing for Wine windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/998591
<oimon> assigned to:unassigned makes me sad
<Twinkletoes> Anyone know how nagios translates the simple 'check_http' command into a form which contains the hostname?  I though there was a 'commands.cfg' file with all this in, btu I can't find it under the Ubuntu port of nagios
<BigRedS> traditionally, with -H
<BigRedS> you can do -H $HOSTADDRESS$ which (by default) uses the address of teh host the service is attached to
<Twinkletoes> BigRedS: Yeah - I though all these commands were defined in commands.cfg, but it seems not
<BigRedS> you can set it up however you like, we have no commands.cfg
<BigRedS> they're in checkcommands.cfg
<Twinkletoes> BigRedS: Does the port for nagios add the -H $HOSTADDRESS automatically, ie. withouth the aid of a config somewhere?
<BigRedS> (which might be what you meant)
<Twinkletoes> BigRedS: Ah, I must find that file
<BigRedS> I think it does $HOSTADDRESS$ by default but I'm not sure
<Twinkletoes> BigRedS: Do you know where that file 'checkcommands.cfg' is?
<BigRedS> /etc/nagios/checkcommands.cfg
<BigRedS> wait
<BigRedS> this is nagios 1.x
<BigRedS> you're probably running something from this century
<Twinkletoes> BigRedS: I have 3.2.0 and there's a file called commands.cfg, which contained all this stuff when I was running it under FreeBSD, but it doesn't conatin it in the ubuntu port
<BigRedS> our debian 3.x install has a commands.cfg
<BigRedS> I've deliberately avoided it, though, so I don't know how it works
<BigRedS> except it seems to be a excercise in inode exhaustion
<Twinkletoes> :)
<jacobw> debian 3.x /o\
<Azelphur> hehe, I just installed debian+lxde on this laptop I have here, Ubuntu doesn't like it at all.
<jacobw> how so?
<christel> i have just realised that i have forgotten to eat today.. i blame mattt for telling me not to have icecream for breakfast
<BigRedS> jacobw: ah, no, Debian 6.xm Nagios 3.x
<jacobw> BigRedS: thank goodness, running sarge or woody now would be distressing
<Azelphur> livecd doesn't boot at all (none of them, xubuntu ubuntu or lubuntu), took the HDD out and installed in a different machine and put it back in again, boots but touchpad, wifi, ethernet don't work, and don't even show up in lspci
<jacobw> and you've installed debian now?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> seems to be handling it much better, I think debian is nicer for older hardware anyway
<jacobw> i currently the netbook you sold to me for debian+awesomewm
<Azelphur> :D
<jacobw> small computer tiling it's display between iceweasel and a text editor is very useful
<Azelphur> I miss that netbook haha, the inspiron duo I bought is not as good imo :P
<Azelphur> tis a very nice netbook
<Azelphur> when I can be bothered I'll probably put both my laptops up on ebay, and buy one semi-decent one
<jacobw> my dell vostro is very nice
<jacobw> well, it's just square, has a plain keyboard and doesn't do anything that annoys me
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> inspiron duo only has about 3 hours of battery life and has a few annoying Linux issues (kernel panics sometimes)
<Azelphur> and I have my M1730 which is just a bit old now
<jacobw> my boss has a newer vostro than i do
<Azelphur> jacobw: happen to know how to get wifi firmware for debian for my USB stick? (Dunno what other information you'll need about the stick)
<jacobw> i aspire to a newer vostro :p
<jacobw> there's a package in debian which contains all avaiable proprietary firmwares
<jacobw> in non-free
<Azelphur> nice, I have nonfree enabled, know what the package is called?
<jacobw> http://wiki.debian.org/Firmware/
<BigRedS> jacobw: we have one woody box and at least a couple of sarges :)
<jacobw> http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze/firmware-nonfree
<Azelphur> ty :)
<Azelphur> jacobw: I installed linux-firmware-nonfree (firmware-nonfree seems to not exist), but it still says that my wifi adapter has missing firmware :(
<jacobw> 'it'?
<jacobw> as in, network-manager?
<Azelphur> yup, network manager
<Azelphur> right click the icon, it shows the "Wireless networks" section and says "device not ready (firmware missing)"
<Azelphur> it's also interesting because ip addr has a wlan0
<jacobw> check if your devices firmware is included in the package and if there's any special instructions to extract the firmware from the distributable binary in the wiki page
<jacobw> ah, check rfkill
<jacobw> and restart network-manager
<Azelphur> rfkill? I restarted the whole machine after the firmware install
<Azelphur> oO, I think I got it
<Azelphur> found a zd1211-firmware package, which is my adapter
<Azelphur> yup, working \o/
<jacobw> good :)
 * jacobw â home
 * jacobw â home
<jacobw> Azelphur: have you played Max Payne 3?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: | home
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<brobostigon> good evening bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Hullo o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yo!  'ow om ya
<bigcalm> davmor2: terrible headache. Silly weather
<christel> bigcalm \o/
<bigcalm> christel: :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: :(
<bigcalm> Time to feed the kitty next door
<bigcalm> Toodles for now
<christel> i say
<brobostigon> i say i say i say.
<christel> haha
<christel> <3
<christel> i just referred a rugby game between my son and the virgin mary
<christel> apparently they both won (i also won)
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> you mean "refereed"
<ali1234> right?
<christel> ali1234: thank you! i do indeed
<christel> :P
<MartijnVdS> reefered.
<christel> MartijnVdS: haha <3
 * bigcalm 's back once again
<christel> welcome back, how's the kitty
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: renegade master, etc.?
<bigcalm> christel: all purry :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that's the one
<jacobw> wut?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJR_dX8i0ww
<mattt> worst song ever :(
<bigcalm> mattt: I fear you are from a different time
<bigcalm> Quite possibly, a wrong time
<bigcalm> That track just cured my headache
<mattt> if that cured a headache
<mattt> then i dunno wtf.
<bigcalm> :)
 * oimon1 has a rare night by himself as the wife & youngling are away
<oimon1> just enjoyed a good film
<mattt> oimon1: what'd you watch?
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: Pokemon the Movie?
<mattt> MartijnVdS: ha!
<oimon1> french film called my best friend
<oimon1> the trouble with imdb is that too many american heathens like to vote on "foreign" films
<oimon1> so you should always discount the poor results
<mattt> your wife and kid are out and you watch a foreign film?
<oimon1> uh-huh
<oimon1> what should i do?
<mattt> DIE HARD
<mattt> kidding
<oimon1> i might play il2 in a minute too
<oimon1> tomorrow i'm going to a men's breakfast. having a man weekend
<oimon1> i've had 2 weekends to myself since i've been married (7 yrs)
<mattt> wow
<oimon1> i'm gonna do stuff in the garden in the afternoon..:P
<MartijnVdS> chopping down trees?
<oimon1> i should catch up on zelda, but need to find the battery charger
<oimon1> MartijnVdS: that kind of stuff. although the lawn mower blew up last week
<mattt> you going for this breakfast?  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-16757490
<oimon1> lol
<oimon1> going to this http://bit.ly/NnntqV
<oimon1> mmmm raiding the fridge, raspberries and shortbread
<oimon1> no ice cream left :(
<mattt> oh :P
<oimon1> guys, how do i make my update manager stop appearing?
<oimon1> preferred it the old way
<mattt> not sure, only use ubuntu on server :(
<oimon1> what you use on desk/laptop ? dare i ask?
<mattt> macbook :P
<mattt> (os x)
<oimon1> oh :-|
<oimon1> you miss out on a lot of fun
<mattt> yeah, i don't have space for a desktop at home tho, and i can't stand non-mac laptops
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: just upgrade before it notices there are new packages
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<oimon1> i used to disable it with ubuntu tweak i tihnk
<oimon1> u1 is playing up :S
<oimon1> tried to publish a file, didn't work, now can't republish
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: blame it on aquarius :)
<oimon1> took a copy of the file, works now
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: still, blame aquarius
<oimon1> poor guy
<oimon1> its the weekend
<MartijnVdS> true
<oimon1> here's my desktop atm
<oimon1> http://ubuntuone.com/21uJd56xdyHrLk8VLL53uN
<MartijnVdS> ah.. accordign to Twitter I can go back to BBC Four.. the shitty music is done
<oimon1> i need to go take a photo of sometihng
<ali1234> oimon: does IL sturmovik work good?
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: you had a big manly visit to the toilet and want to preserve it for posterity? ;)
<ali1234> it looks like kind of a cool game :)
<oimon1> ali1234: i bought it from gog. com works good on wine so far, on my intel gfx laptop
<oimon1> and ps2 controller connected via usb adapter
<oimon1> there;s also expansion packs the community have made
<oimon1> to make it cooler
<oimon1> my photo is related..i do like the "hide photos already imported" feature
<oimon1> hmmm sometimes shotwell doesn't show thumbmails before you import :(
<ali1234> i want to try out the ARMA series too
<ali1234> but i heard they don't work well in wine at all
<azelphur_> Anyone know if the Linux compatibility on this will be ok? http://bit.ly/NDd9IP
<mattt> woo, the raspberri pi is slow
<oimon1> my latest model, stuka tankbuster :D http://ubuntuone.com/6zdufdbFzdZFQ7PmM5Rky4
<oimon1> ali1234: what's ARMA?
<ali1234> basically a highly realistic FPS game
<ali1234> it also has mods: http://dayzmod.com/
 * azelphur_ nudges ali1234  with ^
<ali1234> azelphur i dunno i bought intel wifi and it works good :)
<azelphur_> hehe
<ali1234> for 1.99 does it matter?
<ali1234> it will almost certainly work
<azelphur_> fair enough
<azelphur_> found a Â£3 intel one
<azelphur_> ali1234, it's more the delivery times I'd like to get it working some time this year :P
<azelphur_> found intel one from UK though will be much quicker to deliver
<n1md4> azelphur_: how you doing.  Do you have the URL for tha GFX comparison list?
<azelphur_> n1md4, just google "passmark gpu benchmark"
<azelphur_> and you'll find it
<azelphur_> they do cpu benchmarks too btw
<azelphur_> it also isn't the be all and end all, you should check game framerates and stuff too
<oimon1> does anyone know a drink called purdeys
<DJones> oimon1: I've seen it in the shops
<oimon1> sainsburys etc sell it for Â£1.30 or more
<oimon1> 99p shop sells 2 for 99p AMAZING
<penguin42> oimon1: The price for a lot of things is entirely arbitary
<oimon1> well, it's 99p
<penguin42> oimon1: Watch how much they're sometimes discounted down to in the supermarkets
<oimon1> purdeys is never found at less than twice the price anywhere else
<oimon1> and chocolate orange , usually pounds more
<oimon1> but yes, some items are not great deals
<n1md4> Azelphur: keeeeeeewl! Cheers
<gebbione_> hi , i am trying to put an avi into a dvd and tried with DeVeDe but looks like it did just rabbish as VLC does not recognize the dvd as video and plays only an empty 38 seconds track when it should be over 1 hour
<gebbione_> in short what is the best software on ubuntu to take a divx etc and burn them as dvd videos?
<Darael> !best | gebbione_
<lubotu3> gebbione_: Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<gebbione_> so this channel is about silence?
<zleap> sorry was watching something
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: bbc4, mark knopfler.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ALready recording ;)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but thanks :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<oimon1> gebbione: i've had a lot of pain with things like that
<gebbione> :/
<oimon1> but... oh he's work
<oimon1> but i managed it, and don't remember what i did :(
<oimon1> probably handbrake
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: no that's the other way around
<oimon1> arghh
<MartijnVdS> just use brasero and drag the video file to a DVD Video project
<MartijnVdS> that should Just Work, I think
<gebbione> brasero gave me errors earlier, i ll try again
<oimon1> k3b?
<oimon1> k3b never fails, brasero regularly for me
<gebbione> i guess i ll look for k3b in synaptic
<oimon1> bware it might pull in some dependencies if you don't already have qt applications (other kde apps) on your system
<oimon1> ugh, i thought i heard the dog being sick, but i can't find anything
<gebbione> so it is a kde app
<gebbione> mhhh
<oimon1> and it's a great one
<oimon1> normally i'd be in bed 20 mins ago
<oimon1> naughty me :D
<mattt> oimon1: how old are you?  :)
<oimon1> younger than p0pey, older than mattt
<oimon1> born in the 70s
<mattt> i'm also 70s
<mattt> tail end tho
<oimon1> the best thing about the 70s was growing up in the 80s
<zleap> i was born in 1975
<oimon1> i wonder if kids will reminisce about the rasp pi like we do about the bbc
<oimon1> zleap: me too
<AlanBell> me too
<oimon1> the friday night shift on #ubuntu-uk is full of mid 30s men
<oimon1> offtopic with a bit of ubuntu
<oimon1> like the pub
<zleap> possibly howefver lets hope that the idea opf programmable systems don't go away like they did or in 30 years time we will have to re-invent the rasp PI for the reason its out now
<oimon1> reading about the guy they think did the shooting in the states. neuroscience phd student
<DJones> \o/ I'm mid 30's :)
<zleap> well hopefully as he didn't kill him self,  we may find out motives etc
<oimon1> i've been to denver..weird place
<zleap> kinda like totnes then
<zleap> lol
<oimon1> well, just a bit meh. i guess it's a good place to live if you wanna be near the ski resorts
<oimon1> colorado is great for that and beaut scenery
<zleap> and the broncos of course (footy team)
<oimon1> the whole story sounds weird
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> he was even in a gas mask,  as if he thought he was like the dark knight (who i assume is the bad guy)
<AlanBell> not quite, the dark knight is batman, but the adversary in this film wears some kind of mask thing
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sorry also playing harrier attack on speccy emulator - keep pressing down and crashing lol
<AlanBell> saw an article a minute ago saying cinemas in america might ban costumes
<AlanBell> out of the question that guns might be the problem sadly
<zleap> grrr
<oimon1> someone was arguing that civilians carrying guns would have minimised casualties...:-S
<zleap> do guns kill people or do the wrong people with guns people
<oimon1> how do you know a wrong guy ? this guy seemed quite nice
<AlanBell> zleap: well that will have to be "F35 Lighting 2" attack in the next version I guess
<zleap> i guess
<zleap> its quite good, usual basic graphics,  rockets folow the plane so fire move up the rocket moves up,   can be a pain when that causes it to miss but generally useful
<zleap> oimon, they usually do,  just hiding something,  that in sme cases they snap
<zleap> imagine if people had guns to defend shops in last years riots
<zleap> as in thungs smash in to shop,  owner shoots em dead
<oimon1> i wanted to punch some faces today, but i didn't
<mattt> ?
<mattt> you can't do that
<zleap> thugs
<mattt> it's called illegal :)
<AlanBell> then there would be lots of dead teenagers
<zleap> what punching people or shooting people
<mattt> well, both
<zleap> AlanBell, or a quick end to the riots
<mattt> the UK's not in texas
<mattt> you can't shoot people on your property :)
<zleap> i know
<gebbione> oimon, when you add a video to the video project in k3b looks like it is just saving it as a data file and not converting it?
<zleap> i was just saying imagine if the owners of the properies attacked could have actually used lethak force to defend those properties
<mattt> they could have
<mattt> they could have used other weapons
<zleap> yeah then been arrested
<mattt> exactly.
<oimon1> gebbione: click more actions , then video dvd project
<oimon1> new elementary video, any thoughts? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHY2ozxGPVE&feature=player_embedded
<AlanBell> night all o/
<zleap> i mean with zero come back,  on them,,   you break in to my hjouse, i paralise you,  you have no leg to stand on,   in fact I can then sue you for damages to my property
<oimon1> don;t let the chickens bite AlanBell
<zleap> anyway taht is off at a tangent
<mattt> night alan
<mattt> zleap: i hear what you're saying
<oimon1> i get sent the most random misdirected mail..
<oimon1> just got sent a pic of some fluorescent tubing
<oimon1> right better go p/
<mattt> you guys are getting old
<oimon1> huh mattt?
<oimon1> need my 9-10 hrs sleep man
<mattt> everyone's off so early :)
<mattt> night, rest well
<oimon1> i'm not tired though
<oimon1> :S
<zleap> mattt, yeah,
<mattt> paaartay
<oimon1> just disciplined
<mattt> ok, afk too, night all
<zleap> I wonder how many of these speccy games they would get away with these days
<zleap> lol  just loaded horace goes skiing and managed to get across the road,  get skis, get back and go down slope without crashing more than twice (3rd breaks skis) and getting run over
<zleap> i wonder if this is the same company that wrote horace goes skiing http://www.beamsoftware.com/
<zleap> hi soreau
<soreau> yo
<zleap> hows you
<gebbione> oimon, i dont see a more actions option in K3b, my steps are 1-create new video project, 2- add video file -> then i just see the file in the project not formatted and not added under the VIDEO folder
<Azelphur> does anyone know if you can write mini cds / business card cds in a standard drive?
<gebbione> of course
<Azelphur> fun, portable plop boot cd sounds useful :P
<gebbione> a nicer website with impress.js is better imho
<Azelphur> wat
<gebbione> if you are going for business cards presentation
<Azelphur> no, I was going for a plop boot cd
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> just a portable one.
<gebbione> just have it on usb
<Azelphur> gebbione: plop is a boot manager that lets you boot from USB on laptops that don't support boot from USB, I already carry a multiboot USB stick
<gebbione> is it really good at rescuing data?
<Azelphur> gebbione: it pretty much only has one purpose, to enable laptops that can't boot from USB to boot from USB
<Azelphur> because not all laptops can (especially old ones)
<Azelphur> on my USB stick I have Ubuntu 12.04 (32 and 64bit), Xubuntu (64bit), Lubuntu (32bit) and Windows 7 Home premium (32 and 64bit)
<Azelphur> so I have all bases covered there :P
<dwatkins> all your base are belong to us
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-21
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: I see your in #oscommerce, mind answering a couple of dumb getting started questions for me? XD
<Azelphur> gah, does anyone else have a disappearing text cursor in gedit?
<Azelphur> it's driving me insane, keeps happening, never been able to find a bug report on it or anything
<Azelphur> and nautilus keeps refusing to take text entry too
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-15
<joe_shading> Nice picture of a cloud on http://imgur.com/dZuRoHl off http://popey.com/webcam/
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> seems like a lonely cloud.
<Azelphur> for some evening entertainment, I saw this today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5evOrmc0WWo
<joe_shading> #cumulusfractus
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<dwatkins> oioi
<ztuiop> hello there
<ztuiop> anyone here ?
<AlanBell> ztuiop: loads of people
<ztuiop> well, i would like to know, each time i m talking on skype with someone, the call drops
<ztuiop> if i send a mail the mail not receive at time
<popey> morning
<ztuiop> lot of problem on my network
<popey> ztuiop: is it a laptop with wireless?
<ztuiop> so decide to turn off the WIFI
<ztuiop> now i m only using wired connexion
<ztuiop> but i still got the problem
<ztuiop> now i would to identify the person who doing this ?
<ztuiop> what is the method to do ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<popey> ztuiop: I'd use tools like iftop and mtr to check my network
<ztuiop> what you can with these tool ?
<ztuiop> see
<MartijnVdS> popey: that only works for the local network though. If his modem is being DoSsed, it's harder to see what's going on
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o diplo
<popey> MartijnVdS: sure, but it helps
<MartijnVdS> popey: it can help, yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: it can prove what's NOT happening :)
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS and diplo and popey
<BigRedS> Gooooooood Morning!
<BigRedS> apparently
<MartijnVdS> Well, the sun is out here in Amsterdam
<BigRedS> yeah, we've got that issue in London, too
<MartijnVdS> sister cities 8-)
<shauno> I've got cloud cover!  at last!  lovely, lovely cloud cover
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Finally! Clouds to store our data in!
<BigRedS> haha
<shauno> MartijnVdS: reminds me of this one from a couple of years ago.  sadly turned out to be a hoax :(  http://halfblog.net/2011/11/29/the-telegraph-thought-councillor-thought-cloud-computing-depended-on-rainy-weather/
<shauno> although just to make it funnier, it's kinda coming true anyway: http://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/item/32190-hp-to-build-87-000-sq-foot
<shauno> so we really do have clouds :)
<BigRedS> Ireland does seem to be doing well for computing
<BigRedS> it's as if all these US companies can *just* make it as far as Ireland when they're wanting a foothold in Europe
<mungbean> tax innit
<directhex> ireland offers competitive tax breaks
<directhex> as does canada, hence so many tech companies around mtl
<MartijnVdS> yeah, they also set up Dutch subsidiaries to move money around to avoid tax
<directhex> there are few major companies which play fair on tax
<AlanBell> all down to the the Dutch sandwich and double Irish legal tax scams for big companies
<directhex> e.g. costa pays taxes, starbucks doesn't
<SuperMatt> while I think it's clever how starbucks gets around tax, I wish they would diaf
<zertyui> hello anyone there ?
<mungbean> just all of us
<SuperMatt> just not if you can hear me
<SuperMatt> is there anyone home?
<zertyui> is it pÃ´ssible to create a user with temporary access ?
<mungbean> ubuntu has a guest account built in
<mungbean> trashes the home dir after you log out
<directhex> or Holiday Inn pays 2% tax, Premier Inn pays 36%
<zertyui> means is it possible to create a root user with timestamps access ?
<directhex> on last year's financials anyway
<mungbean> directhex: bit of a disparity there
<zertyui> #ubuntu-server
<mungbean> is there a website that helps you ethically choose your company to spend on?
<directhex> mungbean, no single-hit site. i use duedil.com to look up companies & compare pre-tax/post-tax profits on companies
<mungbean> rather than wasting energies on hating the rich, there should be a bit more to help people make good decisions, e.g. phone apps
<mungbean> and a bit of solidarity
<mungbean> but starbucks is still full every time i go past their overpriced establishments
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Get Out of the Dog House Day! :-D
<christel> JamesTait: you will never get out of the dog house darling...
<christel> <3
<christel> (morning all)
<bigcalm> Good morning christel :)
<JamesTait> christel, aww, :(
<directhex> mungbean, a *lot* of people believe that if a tax dodge is legal, then you shouldn't in any way express disapproval of the company using it e.g. by buying elsewhere
<directhex> saying "buy costa not starbucks because taxes" is a quick way to start a forum argument
<christel> hiya bigcalm :)
<directhex> costa's tax bill is high enough to pay for 2 large secondary schools with staff, facilities, etc. that's the kind of tangible measure for people - if starbucks paid taxes, that'd pay for 4000 pupils' education
<shauno> tax breaks are odd.  I think most of us only dislike them because they don't work for us.  if I had the choice to pay half the income tax I do, you can bet I'd leap at it
<directhex> shauno, tax breaks are part of a race to the bottom, which is dangerous, but sitting them out is harmful
<directhex> there's a reason why the uk games industry is in the toilet and the canadian game industry is ascendant - companies set up studios there due to heavy tax breaks
<directhex> tl;dr: everyone loses and we're all going to turn into somalia
<shauno> and then stick their european arm here because we won't spoil that for them
<shauno> it's a popular gripe, but I'm seeing it from the opposite side.  I work at the european HQ of an american company.  except we were bought out by a french company a few years back, so we now have a very uncertain future
<shauno> they lose the tax break, we lose jobs
<mungbean> directhex: thats strange. any company dodging tax means we all pay more in the long run
<mungbean> not really much to discuss :D
<directhex> mungbean, "we all" doesn't matter. only shareholders matter
<directhex> and shareholders aren't using public services anyway - private jet, private schools
<shauno> or more to the point; the shareholders aren't in the UK, what do they care?
<mungbean> you are probably a shareholder of most of these companies indirectly by virtue of your pension
<mungbean> forgetting to bring your phone to work..feel lost :(
<neuro> instead of punishing or vilifying the companies who are only acting in the best interests of their employees, customers and (if applicable) shareholders, by maximising profits through legal means so that they remain a going concern, why not try and punish/vilify the politicians/legislators who put the tax loopholes in there in the first place?
<MartijnVdS> neuro++
<BigRedS> If you don't want to be surprised by your tax income you really should have a simple tax system
<mungbean> " who are only acting in the best interests of their employees,"
<MartijnVdS> or no income
<mungbean> non-profits seem to do OK
<BigRedS> I'm not sure we're *that* bad yet :)
<MooDoo> pwd
<mungbean> /home/moodoo
<SuperMatt> /home/matthew
<SuperMatt> boo :(
<MartijnVdS> moo?
<SuperMatt> I was hoping I was running from something fun like /home/matthew/Videos/.porn
<neuro> /storage/l5r881/d4/p1/cryp/neuro
<directhex> /data/Media/Videos/Adult
<directhex> why hide behind dot files?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: maybe his employer doesn't like adult-themed content?
<directhex> weirdos
<neuro> why would you download/store/view adult material at a workplace?
<mungbean> i should ask the legal guy i saw downloading the most bizarre stuff once
<mungbean> while i was tailing the squid logs
<MartijnVdS> neuro: well there's this company I used to share an office with.. who checked their clients' websites
<mungbean> he was sitting yards away
<neuro> ha
<neuro> i had almost exactly the same thing happen
<MartijnVdS> neuro: they processed credit cards for, among other things, adult sites :)
<neuro> happened to check squid logs
<neuro> noticed "dodgy" thing happening
<directhex> one of the test sites for Moonlight was a "playboy 100 year history" site implemented in silverlight
<neuro> and i'd implemented an staticly-assigned-IP-to-user mapping system
<neuro> so knew immediately who it was
<mungbean> i won't even repeat what i saw
<neuro> phoned the guy up at his desk on the other side of the building
<neuro> "um, mate, give the porn a chuck"
<neuro> "wh whaa eh no wha no eh?"
<mungbean> the guy was going through the process of trying to adopt a child too :-\
<MartijnVdS> neuro: "U wot m8"
<neuro> he did cop to it and apologised profusely
<neuro> i think he was bricking it i was going to dob him in to his manager
<neuro> i told him, look, as far as i'm concerned, you've been a t*t, just don't do it again
<directhex> i reckon i could take our IT manager in a fight, so i don't fear that jackass
<neuro> tho at $that_employer{client}, i was there when a senior manager was taken into custody
<neuro> for kiddie stuff on his work computer
<neuro> *shiver*
<neuro> could have been worse, i might have actually been tasked to sort the guy's computer out
<neuro> didn't envy that person their job
<shauno> detol+magnets :/
<mungbean> eye bleach
<popey> friend of mine runs a computer repair company, plod came round and handed him a cd, said he is obliged to boot every machine that comes in with that cd. it reports a number from 1-10. if it's above 7, call cops
<popey> it doesn't detail what it finds, just that it's found "stuff".
<popey> It boots linux or freedos iirc, and runs a scanner which looks for known "bad stuff"
<mungbean> script or binaries?
<popey> the cops alluded to it being kiddie stuff it looks for
<mungbean> "he is obliged"
<popey> he's not allowed to tell customers that he runs that on their pc's
<popey> yeah â¨
<mungbean> did you read the story about people getting their phone data harvested at teh uk border?
<mungbean> by the authorities
<popey> the trans-atlantic tap?
<SuperMatt> I think that obligation sounds quite dubious
<directhex> so much for flying cars, we ended up with neuromancer instead
<mungbean> i would probably run teh CD tbh as a model citizen
<SuperMatt> I'd be quite interested to see how it reacts to a freshly intalled machine
<mungbean> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10177765/Travellers-mobile-phone-data-seized-by-police-at-border.html
<DJones> I was reading this yesterday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23268893 which sounds quite interesting
<mungbean> i thought they meant pikeys but they mean people en route
<popey> oh, not seen that mungbean
<popey> they could get your email passwords etc
<SuperMatt> I do seem to remember a story which something like this: woman reports husband for kiddie porn. All PCs seized. Images found of woman is coitus with dog. loloops
<Laney> O_O
<SuperMatt> yeah
<SuperMatt> both arrested, of course
<Laney> the dog?
<popey> haha
<popey> comedy gold
<SuperMatt> no, the husband and the wife
<popey> i dont think that needed an answer â»
<shauno> I think I preferred Laney's
<directhex> clearly those photos should go onto a trucrypt'd usb stick
<Laney> I sentence you to two years HARD WALKIES
<Laney> NO WINALOT.
<SuperMatt> y'know, if I was the kind of person to have suspicious stuff on my machine, despite the .pron folder, I wouldn't even *think* about taking it to get repaired
<SuperMatt> I'd be all like "lolnope, this is getting destroyed"
<mungbean> my wife knows my password
<mungbean> no nasties on my pc
<SuperMatt> I don't know why I hide my porn folder
<mungbean> sharing passwords my SO, keeps u legit
<SuperMatt> I mean, I'm 29. It's a fact of life
<shauno> that border one is quite ick.  not sure I have a convenient way to wipe my phone either
<mungbean> shauno: take a crappy niokia
<mungbean> then secrete the real phone
 * Laney winces
<shauno> the mental picture that provides .. I think I'd rather not visit the UK
<mungbean> there seems to be a price fixing on roof bars
<popey> haha
<mungbean> i mean how expensive?
<popey> lovely subject seguey there
<SuperMatt> y'know. I like the police, I had to deal with a couple of extremely nice ones this weekend. I think that it's government that's the issue with this stuff, and we need to pressure them to fix their policies
<SuperMatt> the police are just having to deal with bad policy
<mungbean> your rights are at their weakest at the border
<DJones> There was a 1/2 hr programme on radio 4 this morning talking about privacy 9am "Privacy under pressure" Steve Hewlett's series on privacy begins with what our online behavior reveals
<DJones> What I heard was quite interesting
<popey> yeah, heard the intro, then started working
<shauno> I thought it was disturbing enough last time I was stopped and asked what the purpose of my visit to the UK was.  and"dude, I'm british" didn't seem sufficient
<SuperMatt> lol
<mungbean> i like how the US say..."it's OK, we only collect on people we think with 51% certainty are foreign"
<mungbean> as if that helps
<SuperMatt> sure, if their name is Jesus Estafez, they're going to thinkk they're 51% foreign
<DJones> It was as I was driving in so timed nicely, it was mostly talking about google & facebook along with smart phone apps and what data they have access to/collect and how the organisations use/don't use it and how they 'anonymise' it for release to advertisers
<SuperMatt> and clearly this intelligence isn't working because we had a drummer hacked to death, and two bombs outside mosques.
<SuperMatt> at the moment I feel we're more at threat in the UK by citizens
<shauno> worth remembering in such conversations that most of us fit that description.  the US saying they only harvest foreigners doesn't make me feel one bit better
<mungbean> SuperMatt: and if they wanted to get away, they would have
<SuperMatt> well, I'm quite interested to know what has come of the mosque bombs and burnings
<mungbean> i think the thugs are on summer hols atm
<SuperMatt> because even though there weren't any casualties, I should hope they're being tracked down
<SuperMatt> in fact, I want 24/7 news coverage
<DJones> I was half expecting Alexander Hanff to get a mention on the programme
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: perhaps there would have been more bad things without this intelligence?
<SuperMatt> well I don't know
<SuperMatt> if they're gonna use this kind of intelligence, I'd quite like to know what they're using it for, y'know
<SuperMatt> to actually make me feel safer
<BigRedS> they don't argue that it's there to make you feel safer, the argument is that it's there to make you safer
<SuperMatt> at the moment, I feel I'm just being spied on, rather than kept safe
<BigRedS> if they tell you what they're doing then they lose the secrecy and therefore the effectiveness
<SuperMatt> but it's no secret our data is being watched
<shauno> if we're meant to "just trust them", they need some framework/oversight/rules to make us trust them
<BigRedS> no, but it never was
<SuperMatt> so my point is: why not just tell us that "this data lead to this arrest"
<BigRedS> you can't really have a domestic secret service and claim to believe thawt your data's not being inspected
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: because the more data you make public about your intelligence gathering the easier it is to work out how you're doing it
<BigRedS> and if you know how the spies are spying it's easier to evade them
<SuperMatt> it doesn't have to be exact, I'd just like to see "using online intelligence, today x people were arrest for conspiring to y"
<mungbean> is it revleaed in court?
<BigRedS> I'd imagine not
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<BigRedS> I'd have thought you use secret data to identify people, then try to find enough publically-available intelligence to convict them
<directhex> urgh. it is possible that the homehub 4 is worse than the homehub 3
<BigRedS> since, again, you don't want anyone to know about your mechanisms
<SuperMatt> true
<shauno> that's how most of these work.  data obtained via sketchy methods isnt' admissable.  but it doesn't need to be.  it just needs to narrow down a large suspect pool to a narrow suspect pool so that they have the manpower to deal with it properly from there
<shauno> they're not going to use "regularly visits xyz jihadist website(s)" as evidence.  because it's not.  but it's a helluva red flag
<BigRedS> yeah, 'knowing' and 'proving' are two pretty distinct steps, and they apparently generally come in that order
<mungbean> i'm still a bit uneasy about getting fingered for a crime by virtue of my phone and oyster card proving i was in the vicinity
<SuperMatt> me too
<SuperMatt> I'm getting a bit paranoid because I run my own email server. If the police said to me "let's see what you have on there" I could say no, but then people will ask "why are you hiding your stuff?"
<mungbean> also, that there are things we could say 5yrs ago that are considered illegal now
<SuperMatt> yeah, like that kid in America. He said something in bad taste, even said "lol, j/k" afterwards, but he was arrested and only released on $500,000 bail
<SuperMatt> that's an abuse of power
<directhex> yeah, well, "justice" in america ia a funny thing
<directhex> as in "it's a punchline in jokes. otherwise, police state!"
<SuperMatt> the goddamn child hadn't done anything wrong
<popey> SuperMatt: is your mail server totally under your control or is it a vps?
<SuperMatt> it's a vps
<popey> if it's a vps they dont even need to ask you
<SuperMatt> I know
<popey> they will ask your provider who wont tell you if they give the feds access
<SuperMatt> but at least it's not with any of the big companies
<SuperMatt> it's a UK company
<SuperMatt> so I'm feeling a little more secure
<popey> hah
<popey> wat
<SuperMatt> at least I can't get accessed by american authorities ;)
<mungbean> http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=6225673&trk=jobs_seeking_view_job&goback=%2Evjs_6312536_*2_*2_*2_false_*2_*2
<mungbean> linaro seeking ubuntu heavy sysadmin
<shauno> I'd hope the vps provider would at least have the spine to ask for a warrant
<SuperMatt> me too
<SuperMatt> If they have a warrant they can do whatever they like, because then a judge has been involved
<SuperMatt> which means evidence has already been presented
<SuperMatt> so I've probably done something wrong already
<SuperMatt> but if I'm not with amazon or rackspace, I can be mostly certain I'm not being backdoored somehow
<BigRedS> er
<popey> i think you're being incredibly naive
<popey> -typo
<BigRedS> it depends what you mean by 'backdoored' but it would be trivial for us to monitor all traffic in and out of any machine
<BigRedS> (any machine we host)
<BigRedS> we don't, obviously, but there's no technical difficulty in doing it
<SuperMatt> of course anyone truly wanting to spy will just watch the packets as the fly over the copper
<mungbean> encrypted
<shauno> isnt'at that basically what they're being accused of?  just slurping traffic en-masse
<mungbean> although i read something about man-in the middle SSL done at ISP level, but not sure if just FUD, i mean , you'd know wouldn't you?
<mungbean> if you can't end to end encrypt without knowing then the encryption system would be broken?
<BigRedS> if it's a VPS you can just read the keys off the VM
<shauno> depends what they have where.  our ssl gets mitm'd at work.  the only real indication is that if you remove zscaler's CA cert, everything breaks
<BigRedS> yeah, I meant more when you've got a VPS and wish to communicate in secret
<shauno> on something like the NSA's scale, what's the difference?  you have to trust they don't have access to any of the CAs you trust
<mungbean> http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-nsa-and-your-boss-can-intercept-and-break-ssl-7000016573/
<BigRedS> shauno: not much
<mungbean> "The SSL proxy intercepts traffic between your computer and the Internet. When you surf to a "secure" site, it, and not your browser, get the real Web server certificate and handles setting up a perfectly good SSL connection between it and the Web server. The proxy then sends you a digital certificate, which looks like the Web server's certificate, and sets up a "secure" connection between your browser and the proxy."
<shauno> that's what all the noise was last year about a few CA roots being untrustworthy
<neuro> "surf" *snort*
<mungbean> If your company has set up the proxy correctly you won't know anything is off because they'll have arranged to have the proxy's internal SSL certificate registered on your machine as a valid certificate.
<mungbean> ^^ don't understand that line though
<BigRedS> yeah, it only works if the machine you're using is controlled by the same people as the proxyu
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> so this is about your company
<mungbean> rather than talktalk
<mungbean> and your home pc
<BigRedS> yeah
<shauno> the proxy has to be able to re-sign the cert afterwards, which means it needs to be a CA you already trust
<mungbean> so...sensationalist
<mungbean> and FUD IMO
<BigRedS> if you own everything all the way down to the hardware all this cert stuff works. But if you don't then it's feasible that someone else has modified it to not work transparently
<shauno> obviously difficult for your isp etc, but not impossible to imagine the NSA have their fingers in any one of the roots that come with your browser
<Laney> you can get browser extensions that detect such tinkering, which may help
<shauno> eg, if any single one of these cooperates; http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/certs/included/
<Laney> ISTR something involving Chrome, Google and the middle east
<shauno> on a completely different topic, has anyone had problems grabbing 'web only' content with get_iplayer?
<BigRedS> Laney: Turkish CA that got compromised and gave out Google certs?
<Laney> something like that
<Laney> and then the browser was like "oh no, this isn't right" because the chain didn't match up
<popey> shauno: something with a /programmes/ url?
<shauno> get_iplayer --pid=p01cr4n2   is my current example
<shauno> but I notice they do start with p0 instead of b0, which may indicate the same thing you mean
<shauno> I can't check how they actually appear on iplayer atm, because I'm at work, and that connection goes through france
<popey> this was discussed recently on the get_iplayer list
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23312579
<neuro> huh
<neuro> chrome doesn't support gopher://
<shauno> does anything?  I think ff needs an addon for it now
<neuro> i miss gopher
<neuro> and wais
<neuro> and archie
<neuro> and veronica
<neuro> simpler times
<neuro> pulling down the latest version of mosaic netscape from SUNsite Northern Europe using fetch on a Mac LC in a uni lab ...
<BigRedS> Anyone done anything with NFC tags and Android phones? Anything to bear in mind or is it as simple to do as it looks?
<shauno> seem to recall Azelphur dabbling with that a while back
<BigRedS> I presume there's an app I can download that'll let me make it do things near tags. Not sure exactly what yet...
<popey> someone at our lug got a load made which took you to the lug website
<popey> then started waving them under people's phones and they surprisngly just worked
<popey> I tried to transfer a picture from one nexus 4 to another via nfc. it failed.. way too slow
<shauno> that could be interesting.  get a load made up as beer coasters and wait
<popey> his were stickers with the lug logo on
<BigRedS> oh, right, so the tabs themselves are programmed?
<popey> or something
<popey> i dunno
<BigRedS> I assumed they just sent a UUID and the phone had to be told what to do when it saw that
<BigRedS> Hm, might have to read up on this
<brobostigon> i noticed on my dads new lg tv, it had nfc in one corner, and you put your phone over it, and it downloaded the android software for said tv.
<brobostigon> i used my nexus7, but same principal applies.
<shauno> is it not something similar to how QR codes work?  they have a flag to describe what data they contain; url, phone number, vcartd, etc
<brobostigon> in that case, i suspose so, yes.
<BigRedS> oh, that'd make sense
<shauno> http://nfcpy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/topics/ndef.html  has some crashcourse on the format.  completely different format to the ECI/SDD in QR, but same concept
<BigRedS> ah, ta
<shauno> didn't realise you could write new values into the tags.  finally explains the difference between that & rfid for me :)
<christel> bigcalm: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/jk-rowling-recorded-two-dubstep-albums-as-burial-2013071575752 saw that and thought of you!
<bigcalm> christel: amusing :)
<christel> :)
 * bigcalm totters off to do his daily exercise
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: a walk to the mail room and back? :P
<bigcalm> Mail room? I work from home
<bigcalm> Wii Fit +
<popey> hi
<popey> on a train on my ubuntu phone on 3g
<popey> fun times
<MartijnVdS> popey: is it stable?
<popey> phone or 3g?
<MartijnVdS> both
<popey> arrived!
<popey> seems.so
<joshmyers> anyone here use openid before?
<dwatkins> shame about his keyboard ;)
<popey> Interesting, was I the only one to ping out?
<shauno> popey: there was another 5 minutes before you, but otherwise, yes
<popey> interesting
<neuro> "We never want a long-standing customer like you to be unhappy. To resolve the complain, we can waive off the cancellation fee of Â£26.31 (VAT Exempt) for this number and will offer additional credit of Â£25.00. Please note that this decision is taken only based on your tenure with Vodafone."
<neuro> ha
<popey> â»
<neuro> note sure they realise what "tenure" means, but sod it, Free Money
<knightwise> MHwhaaahaha ! :)
<neuro> unless they're offering me a professorship or something
<knightwise> just did a successfull export of my entire iTunes library and playlists into Ampache :)
<neuro> if everything was well-tagged in advance, i'm not sure that sounds especially difficult :)
<neuro> but you sound happy about it. Here, have a cookie.
<davmor2> Morningish all
<dvrr> Hiiiiii
<dvrr> i have  proble  samba server shared folder could  you  help  me
<mungbean> decision makers in my company don't want to allow areas of the wiki that are read-restricted to anyone less than $ALL
<mungbean> stab stab stab
<dvrr> please   could  you  resolve  samba  server  problem
<BigRedS> dvrr: we can't help without knowing what the problem is
<BigRedS> what's your specific question?
<BigRedS> I, personally, probably can't help at all. But someone else might be able to
<dvrr> i have  share folder
<dvrr> i given  permission read/write
<dvrr> how to  remove  delete  permission
<dvrr> how to give read write permission not delete samba shared folder
<SuperMatt> you can remove write permissions on the folder above it
<diplo> dvrr:
<dvrr> i have  given  read and write permissions samba share dolder  noe working  fine but  i want remove only delete
<davmor2> Man hospitals are boring
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: always take a Kindle :)
<MartijnVdS> well, bring
<Azelphur> shauno: it's simple
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I would if I had an interest in reading.  I'll maybe take a deck of cards and practise some tricks
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: juggling balls!
<dwatkins> I've started using my Kindla loads recently, since I put a range of different types of book on it.
<dwatkins> *Kindle
<dvrr> diplo: no i can't remove write permission only  remove  delete permission  it is  possable
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no if you drop one one of the nurses might fall on it cards are safer :)
<dvrr> samba share folder
<BigRedS> dwatkins: I've started using a FF plugin to send articles to mine, so whenever I happen across an interesting article of a paragraph or more I send it over
<BigRedS> and then I've always got a fairly good selection of stuff to read
<dwatkins> BigRedS: neat idea, I usually just e-mail myself a PDF
<BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah, I find PDFs hard(er) to read on kindle than whatever it is that this plugin provides
<BigRedS> it's from fivefilters.org
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I agree, often the text is far too small, but I gather that's because they don't reflow when the font size is increased
<BigRedS> yeah, it's a typesetting format, so it's not supposed to scale particularly well
<dwatkins> looks like only some readers can do this: http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/PDF#Reflow
 * AlanBell jumps on a train to London
<AlanBell> o/ nigelb and popey
<popey> yo
<AlanBell> any suggested starting point?
<davmor2> AlanBell: I would start at the trainstation that you arrive in London so be honest, it's hard to start anywhere else :P
<popey> AlanBell: well, i am going to this mobile thing https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/org/1617757584?s=15853795 from 18:00 will ~21:30
<popey> AlanBell: then probably on to https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=kings+arms+roupell+street&hq=kings+arms+roupell+street&radius=15000&t=h&z=16
<popey> as it's on the way back to waterloo
<mungbean> windows cleartype giving me 6 useless options - which to choose?
<mungbean> none of them readable..grrrr
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: random :)
<mungbean> seems not resettable
<MartijnVdS> haha
<MartijnVdS> http://tweakers.net/nieuws/90238/torvalds-brengt-release-candidate-linux-for-workgroups-311-kernel-uit.html
<MartijnVdS> Codename of RC1 of Linux 3.11 is "Linux for Workgroups"
<Azelphur> Does anyone here run Debian testing on their servers? how stable is it?
<brobostigon> yes, i do, Azelphur
<Azelphur> cool, hows that working for you?
<brobostigon> very well.
<Azelphur> good to hear :)
<Azelphur> how long you had it running?
<brobostigon> uptime?
<MartijnVdS> time since install, probably
<Azelphur> yea, time since install, just roughly
<Azelphur> I have had problems with dist-upgrades and Ubuntu, so I like the idea of rolling release
<brobostigon> about a year.
<Azelphur> cool :)
<Azelphur> yea, I'll take the plunge and go with Debian testing I think, I've played around with it in a VM and like it.
<brobostigon> install two thingsd though, the apt bugs and apt changelog packages.
<Azelphur> what do those do?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: one shows the bugs reported on packages you're upgrading
<MartijnVdS> the other shows changelogs
<Azelphur> ah, cool
<MartijnVdS> helps you stop the upgrade BEFORE it breaks your system
<brobostigon> useful especially as it is rolling.
<Azelphur> so when doing an upgrade, use those basically
<Azelphur> yea
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: they're apt plugins
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so they're used automagically
<brobostigon> yep.
<Azelphur> automagically, nice \o/
<brobostigon> avoiding breakage.
<Azelphur> my current install on my server is 11.10, it had a hard shutdown when the data center flooded (ny hurricane), so it doesn't boot properly now haha, hense the desire to reload ;)
<Azelphur> but yea, rolling release should go nicely with me I think
<brobostigon> but be careful as i said, with those packages within apt.
<Azelphur> yea, once I get it up and running I'll give you a nudge so you can show me how those packages work
<Azelphur> :)
<brobostigon> prod anyone, those are comon packages.
<brobostigon> common*
<Azelphur> righto :)
<brobostigon> :)
<X98> hello
<neuro> MartijnVdS: wow, i am slow
<neuro> i just realised that linkedin invite from you was, you know, from you :P
<MartijnVdS> neuro: hi :)
<neuro> :)
<neuro> I AM LOOKING AT UR PROFILES!
<MartijnVdS> O NOES
<neuro> (as you'll probably know tomorrow when you get the "hey, some idiots were looking at your profile" message)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I get those a lot, since $employer announced intentions to lay of a lot of people
<neuro> ooft
<neuro> i thought xs were doing well
<MartijnVdS> new CEO with a track record of outsourcing
<neuro> lovely
<neuro> been there
<MartijnVdS> Claims we're "inefficient" and "can't deliver on time", while we're the only department that does deliver on time
<neuro> i had to train my outsourced replacements :P
<MartijnVdS> I'm at the "their loss" stage ;)
<neuro> lol
<neuro> "Hey, they can do the reactive things you do. Bye."
<neuro> I oversimplify, but still ...
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, but we're the "annoying coders".. we ask questions back :)
<MartijnVdS> "Did you think of X?" "What happens if we do this new X with the old Y?"
<neuro> my experience with outsourcing coders is the immediate effect of buyer's remorse once you find out the outsourced coders generally won't have a hope of matching the internal team's skills
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, we have a few people who've "been outsourced before" on the team
<neuro> hmm, new email has arrived. "Help Crowdsource a Mission to Mars!" Um, no.
<MartijnVdS> neuro: what if they want you to help pick people who should go on the first trip there?
<neuro> /list #ubuntu-uk | mail -s "SRSLY, SEND THESE GUYS" marsmission@space.types
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<neuro> i've seen how things work on kickstarter, not sure i'd want a manned space mission to be funded in the same way
 * peng42phone clickety clacks on a train
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: choo choo!
<neuro> "UPDATE #47: Hey everyone, the new LOX recyc fast bleed system is almost ready, once we figure out why it keeps blowing up, but in other news, the T-shirts from funding tiers 3 upwards are shipping tomorrow! Yay!"
<neuro> peng42phone: t-mobile. ew ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: they give tiers names now
<neuro> i know, i was kidding
<peng42phone> MartijnVDS: almost, a slow diesel
<MartijnVdS> neuro: "T-shirts from tiers MAJOR TOM and up are now shipping"
<neuro> lol
<MartijnVdS> neuro: (and the papers want to know whose shirt you wear..)
<neuro> tiers ... "CAPRICORN ONE", "DUST DEVIL", "MAJOR TOM", "CARL SAGAN MEMORIAL STATION", "HOUSTON, WE'VE HAD A PROBLEM", "I SAY WE TAKE OFF AND NUKE THE SITE FROM ORBIT", "MAKE IT SO"
<MartijnVdS> "Clavius Base"
<neuro> TMA-1
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<peng42phone> "Memory alpha"?
 * neuro cues up some waltz ...
<neuro> ... eventually (after wrangling itunes into life)
 * peng42phone waits at Preston
<neuro> hehe, this is awesome
<neuro> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/15/cameron-tweets-fake-iain-duncan-smith
<neuro> whatever No. 10 intern runs Dave Cameron's twitter account linked to a fake Iain Duncan Smith account
<neuro> whoooooops
<MartijnVdS> intern executed?
<neuro> ha
<neuro> tut tut, someone just tried to auth to nickserv as me
<MartijnVdS> maybe that same intern
<neuro> lol
<neuro> hope not, came from a comcast IP in washington state
<MartijnVdS> .. or that's what MI[56] want you to believe
<neuro> well that's what freenode reported the IP as ...
<neuro> right, tesco delivery soon, time to clear out the fridge ;)
<peng42phone> Hmph, standing room only
<Azelphur> Is there a decent way of getting oracle java on Ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java ?
<Azelphur> seems like a manual install job since webupd8 has no java
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/4W4AwuY5 à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Automatix reborn?
<ali1234> yeah
<MartijnVdS> where'd you find that, and can we kill it with fire?
<ali1234> someone posted it on askubuntu with the question "why doesn't this script work?"
<MartijnVdS> because it's wrong on so many levels
<ali1234> i can only hope that it wasn't the script author
<ali1234> if it was i feel sorry for anyone who runs it
<MartijnVdS> last one's the kicker
<MartijnVdS> "kingsoft office" from a server in China?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-16
<omer> hi
<knightwise> morning
<Myrtti> something to that effect
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS>   \o
 * popey chuckles at http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4456#kf (specifically http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/keyfeature/294/images/S1185-keyfeatures-11.jpg) vs http://www.canstockphoto.com/images-photos/young-woman-headphones-laptop.html#file_view.php?id=11971356
<Gary> thats quite funny
<Gary> companies should make sure to take their own marketing photos
<popey> http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-image-relaxed-young-man-cup-tea-using-laptop-image16717196
<popey> also
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Corn Fritter Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: that sounds American
<JamesTait> I really need to find more sources for these things if that's the best we can do. :-/
<JamesTait> It's one year since Jon Lord died.
 * brobostigon curses at the hay fever.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, I don't think he died from hay fever.
<brobostigon> JamesTait: dont think who died ?
<JamesTait> brobostigon, 09:46 < JamesTait> It's one year since Jon Lord died.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, immediately followed by 09:47  * brobostigon curses at the hay fever.
<brobostigon> ah, ok, i dont know the name, i dont think.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lord
<brobostigon> JamesTait: ah,
<etyuio> hello
<etyuio> a question ?
<etyuio> i got list of server name on file sometime the same server name appear 2 times sometime appear only one time : i m looking for a command that can filter and count the number of the server in one time
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: sort -c and sort -u
<MartijnVdS> wait.. not -c\
<MartijnVdS> ah
<BigRedS> sort | uniq -c
<MartijnVdS> uniq -c
<brobostigon> anything i can use, which will be around the house, for my hayfever untill i get into toen this afternoon ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: gas mask?
 * BigRedS wonders what MartijnVdS has around his house
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: surgical mask?
<brobostigon> quite, yes.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: don't you have "Prepare for the worst!" government ads?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "Get 100 liters of water, a gas mask, duct tape, a flash light and a radio"
<MartijnVdS> or something similar
<BigRedS> prepare for the worst government?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: maybe
<etyuio> what is the difference between sort -c and u  ?
<BigRedS> we definitely get those ones
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: man sort :)
<brobostigon> closest i have, are probably some oil and hydraulic fluid filters.
<BigRedS> etyuio: they're quite different. Do you mean between sort -u and uniq?
<BigRedS> the former doesn't keep count
<etyuio> i got 3 different result
<etyuio> uniq file | nl & sort file |uniq|nl & sort file |uniq|wc -l
<etyuio> which one is correct ?
<SuperMatt> you want to sort first
<SuperMatt> ideally, you'd also want to convert them all to the same case
<mungbean> what's the best performing X server for windows?
<mungbean> trying xming and it's minging
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: it helps if you understand what the commands actually  DO
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: which you can learn by reading their manual pages (man commandname)
<SuperMatt> sort -hf <file> | uniq
<etyuio> i can't understand anything
<etyuio> i got 3 different result for this : uniq file | nl & sort file |uniq|nl & sort file |uniq|wc -l
<etyuio> which one is correct ?
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: depends on what you wnat to do :)
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: uniq = list only unique lines in a file (if a line is in the file more than one time, list it only once)
<MartijnVdS> nl = add line numbers
<MartijnVdS> sort = sort lines in a file
<MartijnVdS> wc -l = count lines in a file
<MartijnVdS> as the manual would have told you
<SuperMatt> etyuio: I really suggest you learn what each command is actually doing so you can determin for yourself which is giving you the correct answer
<etyuio> well i can understand all those thing
<MooDoo> popey: you loosing your man cave?
<MooDoo> losing even
<etyuio> my question is as i grep uniq is there all 3 commands are equivalent or not ?
<etyuio> uniq file | nl & sort file |uniq|nl & sort file |uniq|wc -l
<SuperMatt> the first one will give you a different result to the other two
<SuperMatt> because uniq only removes indentical stuff if they're next to each other
<etyuio> i got an 4rth result with this command : uniq file | wc -l
<SuperMatt> you *must* sort first
<etyuio> hold down i give the result
<popey> MooDoo: indeed
<etyuio> uniq file | nl => 122 result
<etyuio> sort file |uniq|nl => 120 result
<SuperMatt> yup
<etyuio> sort file |uniq|wc -l => 121 result
<SuperMatt> that's because some of those additional servers weren't directly next to their duplicate
<BigRedS> uniq goes through the file and if one line is the same as the preceeding one it removes one of them; all it does is compare adjacent lines
<SuperMatt> so ignore the first one
<MooDoo> popey: denied :( as Myrtti mentioned on g+ let's hope you get a good shed ;
<SuperMatt> etyuio: when writing bashy type stuff, do everything one bit at a time
<SuperMatt> so start off with sort, and see if you get what you expect
<SuperMatt> then run uniq
<SuperMatt> then run nl and wc -l
<Myrtti> I sense a disturbance in the force
<etyuio> well let me the ask different the question differently
<etyuio> how to identify the one increasing each time ?
<SuperMatt> aha, wc -l will include blank lines, nl will not
<etyuio> uniq file | nl & sort file |uniq|nl & sort file |uniq|wc -l
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: are you sure you don't want "sort file | uniq -c"
<etyuio> done what you want to know ?
<MartijnVdS> ?
<SuperMatt> etyuio: have you actually read the man pages of any of these commands? I really suggest you do because it's important to learn what the commands do. That way you can then decide for youself which commands you should be running and in what order, for the task that only you know the end goal
<etyuio> now i got an other result => 121
<etyuio> which one is correct ?
<SuperMatt> we don't know because we don't have the same input as you!
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: you have to decide that yourself, by reading up on what the commands *do*
<SuperMatt> what MartijnVdS said
<MartijnVdS> and if that's what you want them to do
<SuperMatt> it's like me coming in here and saying "I have two answers, 'b' and '89475.' Which one is right?"
<SuperMatt> no one in here will know because they don't have the input
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: "b" obviously
<mungbean> discovers that mobaxterm is much better than xming
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: xming has a .. dubious .. name
<SuperMatt> still not as dubious as gimp
<mgdm> you'd be better with xmung
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: "I started GIMP in Xming"
<SuperMatt> still, I find it funny installing mongo
<SuperMatt> let me just man gimp
<mungbean> in the 90s i naively typed manpages.com
<mungbean> thinking it was a solaris site
<SuperMatt> lol
<SuperMatt> I don't think I'll be doing that right now
<mungbean> big willy wangers on the first page
<SuperMatt> hilarious
<mungbean> got whiplash from trying to shut the browser
<SuperMatt> we've all been there
<mungbean> i was at work in full view of the office
<BigRedS> My brother used to keep checking his mail at hotmale.com
<SuperMatt> mmm there's something quite satisfying naming our nagios server "hubble"
<mungbean> oog
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Dutch for "eye" :)
<MartijnVdS> also a good name for a Nagios server
<JohnRobert> nagios nags you
<mungbean> i meant to say oof
<SuperMatt> nagios only nags you if you're a bad sysadmin ;)
<Gary> MRTG ftw
<directhex> naggy os?
<MartijnVdS> Gary: ...
<directhex> zabbix!
<mungbean> cacti>mrtg
<MartijnVdS> What's wrong with what we call the "whine system"?
<MartijnVdS> "<service> seems to be down" "Let's look at that.."
<Gary> MartijnVdS: multi router traffic grapher
<MooDoo> I love wine ;)
<MartijnVdS> Gary: I know.. but that doesn't warn if it detects bad stuff, does it?
<Gary> produces pretty graphs for bandwidth, and shows if stuff goes eeeeeek
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "whinge" then
<Gary> and we have it tied in somehow to nagios
<MartijnVdS> Gary: sure, but it doesn't actually go EEEEK itself
<MartijnVdS> Gary: by texting you
<Gary> (I don't set up these systems, just break them)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS:  ;
<MooDoo> :)
<Gary> nagios emails, I think it can do more
<MartijnVdS> Gary: yeah, it can start scripts
<MartijnVdS> Gary: you could even make nagios restart the service all by itself if you wanted to
<Gary> ooo, I just want to con my boss into making it restart EVERYTHING upon recieving an email from my unknown external freemail address :p
<MartijnVdS> Gary: or a text from that new pay-as-you-go number from free SIM from the supermarket ;)
<Gary> paid for in cash, whilst wearing a hoodie
<MartijnVdS> yeah, and then not used for a month so the security tapes expire
<Gary> actually, sod restart, can it just shutdown all?
<MartijnVdS> why not?
<Gary> wipe config, shutdown :p
<MartijnVdS> a script is a script
<MartijnVdS> Gary: easier to do that with puppet
<Gary> my cow-workers are puppets
<Gary> do I come across as a little erm, whats the word...
<etyuio> peffect this one is correct command sort file |uniq -c|nl
<etyuio> now i would like to change the  name of the server which is on the file from BIG letter to small letter ?
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: man tr :)
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: or, easier to understand but not as comprehensive: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-use-linux-unix-tr-command/
<SuperMatt> etyuio: you could do sort -f, which does case insensitive sorting
<etyuio> i don't want to sort anything
<SuperMatt> right, are you sure? What if you have something like: Server1 and server1. They will appear differently in sort file | uniq | nl
<SuperMatt> oh wait, uniq needs to be insensitive too
<etyuio> from this command sort file |uniq -c|nl i would like to add something like  sort file |uniq -c|nl | convert MAJ to MIN
<MartijnVdS> tr A-Z a-z file | sort | uniq -c | nl
<SuperMatt> ^
<SuperMatt> you wanna do your conversion first
<MartijnVdS> transpose all capital letters to lowercase letters
<MartijnVdS> then sort (so the same names are next to each other)
<MartijnVdS> then count how often each line is in the file
<etyuio> how ?
<MartijnVdS> then number the lines
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: I'm just describing what that command line does
<SuperMatt> oooh, there's an awk way too
<SuperMatt> I like awk
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: Really, read some man pages :)
<etyuio> how awk ?
<etyuio> with awk ?
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS already gave you the answer at 10:52
<SuperMatt> using tr
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: there's an awk way to do almost everything. It's like Perl but worse
<etyuio> but not work
<etyuio> tr A-Z a-z file | sort | uniq -c | nl
<etyuio> not workign tr A-Z a-z file | sort | uniq -c | nl
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: what isn't working about it?
<etyuio>  Usage: tr [ -cds ] [ String1 [ String2 ] ]
<SuperMatt> try tr '[A-Z]' '[a-z]' file | sort | uniq -c | nl
<etyuio> not at all
<etyuio> same result
<SuperMatt> wait, we can just dict the -c | nl
<SuperMatt> because you want a list
<SuperMatt> so  tr '[A-Z]' '[a-z]' file | sort | uniq
<SuperMatt> this is why *you* need to learn the commands
<etyuio> i would like to understand how with awk ?
<SuperMatt> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2264428/converting-string-to-lower-case-in-bash-shell-scripting
<SuperMatt> or importantly http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bash+convert+to+lowercase
<SuperMatt> that's how I managed it
<SuperMatt> I'm going to be honest *again*
<SuperMatt> *learn* the commands
<SuperMatt> we are tying to help, but we don't see what you see, we don't know what you know. we are pointing you at commands, but we can't tell you what's wrong with them because we don't know what result you're expecting to see. If you want generic help, like 'what command does x?' we can help, but we can't get the right answer for you
<etyuio> ok i can understand
<etyuio> this command is wroking  echo "Hi All" | tr "[:upper:]" "[:lower:]"
<etyuio> in output i got hi all
<SuperMatt> excellent
<SuperMatt> so now you can do tr "[:upper:]"  "[:lower:]"
<SuperMatt> so now you can do tr "[:upper:]"  "[:lower:]" filename
<SuperMatt> sorry
<etyuio> but this one not working but instead of
<etyuio> tr "[:upper:]" "[:lower:]" file  | sort | uniq -c | nl
<etyuio> what i would like to do  is :
<etyuio> with this command
<etyuio> echo "Hi All" | tr "[:upper:]" "[:lower:]"
<SuperMatt> you can do cat file | tr...
<etyuio> instead of Hi All in echo "Hi All" | tr "[:upper:]" "[:lower:]" i would like to input my file name to have something like this
<etyuio> echo "$filename" | tr "[:upper:]" "[:lower:]" | sort | uniq -c | nl
<etyuio> how to do ?
<SuperMatt> cat filename instead of echo filename
<SuperMatt> or jusy use tr "[:toupper:]" "[:tolower:]" filename
<SuperMatt> it does work because I've tried it
<etyuio> perfect
<etyuio> it's working thanks a lot
<SuperMatt> hooray!
<SuperMatt> now, I want you to run these commands
<SuperMatt> man sort
<SuperMatt> man uniq
<SuperMatt> man wc
<SuperMatt> man nl
<SuperMatt> man tr
<SuperMatt> and learn exactly what they do
<SuperMatt> that way, when you have a question like this, you will know exactly how to answer it yourself
<etyuio> ok perfect
<etyuio> but i got some difficulty to understand that
<SuperMatt> you may not *remember* each switch, but you will remember "oh hey, I know sort is what I need, I'll look to see what functionality it has"
<SuperMatt> is english not your first language?
<etyuio> i m expecting an answer in 2 lines but gots several pages
<etyuio> french
<SuperMatt> yes, man is sort for manual
<etyuio> is it possible to convert the man page in french ?
<etyuio> or open the man page temporarely in french ?
<etyuio> or choosing the language what we would like to read ?
<SuperMatt> can I ask why you're not in #ubuntu-fr?
<SuperMatt> because I don't know about reading man pages in french
<SuperMatt> but they would be able to help you
<SuperMatt> they'd help you understand a lot more than we could
<SuperMatt> aha, it looks like you can install manpages-fr
<etyuio> but there people are not UP  2 date
<SuperMatt> how so?
<etyuio> that's why i m here
<SuperMatt> ok, I just checked and there *loads* of people in #ubuntu-fr
<SuperMatt> they could have helped you
<SuperMatt> and I'm sure if you stay in there for a long period of time and be patient, you will learn a lot from them
<SuperMatt> and the commands we used today? decades old. No one in there needs to be up to date to help you
<etyuio> well
<etyuio> on the same file i got  list of server in DNS shortname
<etyuio> now i would like to add the complete name
<etyuio> how add the extension from the short name of the server ?
<SuperMatt> ok, maybe now I think you're using the wrong tools
<SuperMatt> it's doable, but we're getting really complex, and you'd be best just copying the data in to something like excel/calc, and manipulating it there
<SuperMatt> then pasting it back in
<SuperMatt> but to answer your question awk '{print $0 "domainname" }'
<SuperMatt> but now you have to work out what to do with that
<etyuio> print $0 means what ?
<ewkbr> hii
<SuperMatt> this is the problem etyuio, you're *way* out of your comfort zone here
<SuperMatt> it'd be prudent for you to do things in a way you're more comfortable with
<ewkbr> i make a script in python
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: man bash -> search for "\$0"
<JohnRobert> iirc $0 is the first argument (probably the script name itself)
<ewkbr> now i want to use it like a service / demon (in /etc/init.d)
<MartijnVdS> 0 = script name
<SuperMatt> not in awk it's not ;)
<ewkbr> how i can do it?
<SuperMatt> ewkbr: that's not easy *at all*
<ewkbr> now i want to use it like a service / demon (in /etc/init.d) with start, stop restart
<SuperMatt> what does it do?
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: you need  to write it in a special way for that
<SuperMatt> there is a python pip for creating daemons, I suggest you look that up
<SuperMatt> but it's not a simple question to answer
<MartijnVdS> it's also packaged
<ewkbr> what do you mean?
<ewkbr> to run it like this?
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: there's a library you can use, python-daemon, to write daemons in python
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: you have to write your program to make use of that library
<ewkbr> python script.py | service   ??
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: do you even read what we're telling you?
<ewkbr> but i dont want to re-write the code,, i want only the ability to start it and stop simply..
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: I have a feeling no one today has been reading what we've been saying
<SuperMatt> whois ewkbr
<SuperMatt> oops
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: that's not how daemons work
<SuperMatt> you *have* to write new code to convert it to a daemon
<SuperMatt> because it needs clever stuff, like the ability to fork new processes, etc
<SuperMatt> the ability to receive a stop signal
<MartijnVdS> and then actually stop
<SuperMatt> there is *so much* to it
<ewkbr> ok..
<etyuio> perfect working awk
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: but do you know what it's actually doing?
<SuperMatt> ^this
<etyuio> yes of course adding extension on the file
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<SuperMatt> ewkbr: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-daemon
<etyuio> perfect working awk
<etyuio> but the problem is i got 3 types of server name ; starting with
<etyuio> 3 different name
<MartijnVdS> etyuio: It might work, but I'm afraid it's fragile and you won't actually know how to fix it if it breaks
<SuperMatt> hang on
<SuperMatt> I have a great answer for all this
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: stackexchange?
<SuperMatt> cvbnm,m, nbgvb cxc
<etyuio> i would like to add the 3 different in 3 case
<SuperMatt> hanging my head of the keyboard
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: awww..
<etyuio> what will work ?
<SuperMatt> then the command line is not the tool for you, etyuio
<SuperMatt> either learn to script in bash, python, whatever
 * MartijnVdS gives up as well
<SuperMatt> or do it manually
<SuperMatt> and we cannot teach you this in 10 minutes on irc
<etyuio> don't worry i found it with for i in
<etyuio> thanks here for valuable support
<SuperMatt> ok great
<SuperMatt> now *learn* all this
<SuperMatt> throw yourself deeply in to it
<etyuio> sure
<BigRedS> Start knocking out 2KB oneliners that make your colleagues weep
<SuperMatt> feel free to ask questions, but make sure they're the *right* questions
<etyuio> ok perfect thanks a lot
<SuperMatt> *phew* all that stuff is over now, I feel like I can breathe
<MartijnVdS> we can talk about perl scripts again :)
<SuperMatt> hooray
<ali1234> NO
 * penguin42 notes the lyrics on 'The final countdown' are wonderfully cheesy
<davmor2> penguin42: I don't know what you mean.  "We're leaving together, but still it's fairwell, and maybe we'll come back, to Earth who can tell....."  Nothing cheesy there :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: same subject as Queen - '39 then
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: or Flash :)
<davmor2> penguin42: if you want cheesy you need to look to popstars trying to cash in on rock ballards, power of love Jennifer Rush, Just died in your arms tonight cutting crew...........
<MooDoo> anything from the 80's nuff said
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Queens cheesiest song starts "I was just a skinny lad, never knew no good from bad, but I knew life before I left my nursery"
<BigRedS> I just exchanged GPG keys with RMS. That might be the most nerdy thing I've ever done.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: would you need to send him anything then?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggggggggggggaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadododo
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: we host a machine for hi
<BigRedS> m
<davmor2> MooDoo: I don't know what you mean the 90's brought us boybands and girlbands you really want cheesy that is the era to look at :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/4sXUFBP520n3SC2o8bg0TF
<MooDoo> davmor2: sorry can't talk i'm pushing a pineapple and shacking a tree
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: they also brought us proper gangsta rap
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: and Eurodance
<MooDoo> It's hammer time, that's all you need to know
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: stop, collaborate and listen!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: the 80's brought proper gangster rap, NWA when they were not mainstream etc
<BigRedS> Hah, I can't get that playlist top open in spotify
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: hm, true
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Also a lot of the dance house music that Eurodance is based off kicked off in the 80's and a lot of the demo music used is also from the 80's :P
<davmor2> demo was meant to be sample
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: but the 90s gave us Ace of Base, and happy hardcore.. and Aqua
<MooDoo> not in my barbie world
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: spotify:user:martijnvds:playlist:4sXUFBP520n3SC2o8bg0TF  then ? paste that in the search box
<BigRedS> ah! I was just trying to remember that syntax
<BigRedS> haha, your '90s playlist dwarfs mine
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Ace of base 87 dude, happy hardcore were formed in the late 80'2 inorder to be popular by the early 90's and Aqua well it's Aqua.  The 90's also brought us spice girls, boyzone, take that, etc etc etc
<BigRedS> make me feel a bit better about that
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: best music is from the late 80s, early 90s anyway
<penguin42> davmor2: No way; the Final countdown rhymes 'we're heading for Venus (Venus)' with 'Cause maybe they've seen us'  - you can't get cheesier than that
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I agree, only I also include late 70's, all of the 80's, and up to about 94-95, then it just started to go downhill bar the odd exceptional group  for example fatboy slim, prodigy , moby, Armon Vanheldon (probably spelt wrong), Adele, blur, oasis etc
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: every time I hear someone say "music from Adele" I hear "music from a Dell"
<davmor2> penguin42: Power of love by Frankie goes to hollywood "I'll protect you from the Hooded Claw  and keep the vampires from your door"
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: how do you know it isn't
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: no logo
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: and no intel jingle in the background :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: exactly
<davmor2> penguin42: then you get the stalker song from the police, the pervert song by the police, the murder song by Phil Collins, that everyone thinks are lovely love songs, (every breath you take, don't stand so close, in the air tonight)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Fiction Factory - (Feels Like) Heaven, a very happy-sounding *break-up song*
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: but at one time, everyone used it at weddings
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: 10cc I'm not in love
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, that is nothing to do with drugs
<MartijnVdS> but that's not 80s
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I know but all the ones in the 80's that were about drugs, were about drugs :D
<penguin42> reminds me, I need to get some 10cc; I had Rubber Bullets going round in my brain the other night
<ali1234> ebeneezer goode?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Then there is the 1979 Christmas number on no drugs in that song what so ever :)
<ali1234> i don't think pop music gets much more blatant than that
<ali1234> why is the phil collins song about murder tho?
<davmor2> ali1234: If you told me you were drowning I would not lend a hand
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: that's just hating someone
<ali1234> "It's the first time, the last time we ever met "
<ali1234> it's a song by a murder victim to the murderer?
<ali1234> i would almost have more respect for phil collins if that were true
<ali1234> but according to wikipedia he doesn't know what it's about
<davmor2> ali1234, MartijnVdS: I think it is actually more about pent up hate and what he saw
<davmor2> the three things that spring to mind is rape, murder or child abuse of some sort
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: maybe he saw the police
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah sting was stalking him
<MartijnVdS> the 80s all make sense suddenly!
<ewkbr> hi
<ewkbr> i want to do someting like that
<ewkbr> ps -ef | grep "test.py" | grep "python" | awk '{print $2}' > variablename | kill -s 15 variablename
<ewkbr> how i can do it?
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: that looks very dangerous
<ewkbr> but how i can find the pid by name..
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: that tends to be solved by leaving a pidfile when starting
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: and NWA were obvious sent in to kill the police, with MC Hammer but they can't touch this, so run dmc walked this way following the bangles walking like egyptians, until Frankie said Relax!
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: and it's like that, and that's the way it is.
<ewkbr> i get this answer in other place
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: welcome to the pleasure dome that is sentences made up of songs
<ewkbr> pkill --signal 15 -f 'python.*test.py'
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: that's VERY fragile
<ewkbr> is work fine!
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: sure it works now, until you run a python script with a similar name
<ewkbr> and if i make something like this   pkill --signal 15 -f 'python.test.py'
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: no, you want to kill _that specific_ script
<ewkbr> it will be better?
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: so you make the script drop a pidfile in a known location
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: with its PID in it
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: then later, you check if that PID still exists, and the name of the program matches what you expect
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: and if so, you kill it
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: start-stop-daemon has this figured out for you
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: man start-stop-daemon
<ewkbr> i try..
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: you need to read ALL of it, it will teach you a lot about daemons
<ewkbr> i cant join to # python :((
<BigRedS> ewkbr: there shouldn't be a space between the # and the 'python' : /join #python
<ewkbr> how i can convert the BaseHTTPRequestHandler, from send stderr to stdout
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: it's a base class, you make a subclass
<ewkbr> #python-unregistered! You've been put here because #python requires you to register
<MartijnVdS> this is #ubuntu-uk
<MartijnVdS> ewkbr: also, registering your nick isn't hard
<popey> !register | ewkbr
<popey> bah
<JohnRobert> ircfail
<MooDoo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#contents-userregistration
<MooDoo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<mungbean> i don't like these gmail different inboxes
<mungbean> primary/social/promo
<popey> wat?
<JohnRobert> priority inbo
<JohnRobert> x
<mungbean> gmail webmail has suddenly changed my inbox
<mungbean> and has 3 tabs
<mungbean> primary, social and promotions
<MooDoo>  mungbean yup they are rollowing that out
<mungbean> go to settings -> inbox
<mungbean> and unselect categories to remove them
<mungbean> maybe i'll switch it on when i'm comfortable with the idea
<mungbean> not sure how they decide whats a promotional email?
<mungbean> whitelist of 100s of vendors/
<popey> i use priority inbox..
<brobostigon> i just use imap,
<popey> ooh, compact view, much nicer
<mungbean> i use default but set the zoom level to 75%
<BigRedS> I've had it for a couple of weeks, and it's basically 100% correct in its sorting, which is a tad sinister
<BigRedS> I just haven't yet got used to the idea of my inbox being subdivided so I keep not looking at the tabs and not seeing mail
<JohnRobert> I ought to use imap
<ali1234> i already filter everything with labels
<JohnRobert> and pgp
<JohnRobert> gpg rather
<ali1234> i have about 40 labels already
<ali1234> so just turned this thing off
<BigRedS> My gmail account is largely read-only, so I just check it on my phone when I'm bored
<mungbean> i have an outlook.com account with some cool aliases that only the NSA read. i don't even read them
<penguin42> my gmail just gets the stuff where I've used google account to login to blogs etc
<BigRedS> yeah, that's wht mine's for now
<mungbean> seen the forthcoming zimbra release?
<mungbean> blog.zimbra.com/blog/archives/2013/04/zimbra-judaspriest-release-update-1.html
<MooDoo> lol the judaspriest update :)
<Laney> "damn I want some tea" â¦ "WAIT! I made a pot 5 minutes ago!"
 * Laney celebrates
<MooDoo> o/
<mungbean> http://toys.usvsth3m.com/maths/
<mungbean> \o/
<ali1234> i completed level 5 on the first try
<ali1234> after that it starts asking silly questions like 132/11
<mungbean> it does finish
<mungbean> level 9 i think
<mungbean> its worth getting to the finish
<mungbean> there's always an obviously right and wrong answer
<ali1234> no theres 10 levels
<ali1234> on level 9 it starts throwing algerba at you
<mungbean> wasn't counting levels :P
<ali1234> like 2x+6 = 16 (x=4) (x=5)
<ali1234> it says "level x of 10" in the bottom left corner at all times
<ali1234> "is 14 prime?"
<mungbean> yeah, my brain has hardware accel for those
<mungbean> don't need to think
<ali1234> now the website has messed up and the timer isn't working properly
<mungbean> aww you missed out on the carol vorderman with her boobs out
<mungbean> *may not be true
<Laney> I'm giving in and buying a fan
<mungbean> you'll break the weather
<mungbean> oh, it's already borken here
<directhex> Laney, i'm sat in the path of a 12000btu air conditioner :D
<penguin42> aaarrrrrggggghhhhh btu
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I don't know what that unit is but it sounds pleasant
<Gary> or cold
<directhex> British Thermal Unit
<penguin42> the Americans use BTU, you end up with data centres that take kW of electricity in, then spit BTUs of heat out - it's mad!
<nimesh> hi can someone help me when i boot into ubuntu 12.04 lts it just goes to a black screen and i can't login
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you're not much better.. putting litres of petrol in your tank then measuring fuel consumption in miles per gallon
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and using a different gallon from the one across the ocean as well
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: what kind of graphics card do you have?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, americans use british wine gallons. because wine.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: why not French liters, because wine?
<nimesh> i'm using a laptop so i will check
<directhex> MartijnVdS, British colony, for a long time. so imports of goods measured by british units
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sure, but helped to independence by the French
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_gallon
<nimesh> its a  VGA compatible controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 661/741/760 PCI/AGP or 662/761Gx PCIE VGA Display Adapter
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well we did put gallons into our tank until maybe 10 years ago
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: strÃ¤nge
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think it's when gallons of petrol became unpallatably expensive
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: your litres are still cheaper than ours :)
<MartijnVdS> !pm | nimesh
<lubotu3> nimesh: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<directhex> nimesh, i just said "oh gods" out loud
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ALL of them?
<nimesh> what, ok
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: what happens if you plug your monitor into the other graphics card?
<nimesh> sorry new to ubuntu and irc so again sorry
<nimesh> its a laptop
<directhex> nimesh, SiS cards are extremely rare these days, extremely poor hardware, and the drivers are barely tested at all due to the low number of users
<MartijnVdS> ah, so it's one of those "switch between built-in and nvidia card" things?
<nimesh> no
<nimesh> its just sis
<MartijnVdS> then why do you have a SiS PCI/AGI _and_ a PCIE display adapter?
<nimesh> that is what come up when i do lspci
<nimesh> in terminal
<nimesh> 11.10 work perfectly but there is no support as you know
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: like directhex said: SiS isn't well-supported
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: you could check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<MartijnVdS> (does ctrl+alt+f1 work?)
<nimesh> yeah i thnk
<nimesh> no it does
<nimesh> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<nimesh> here is /var/log/Xorg.0.log http://paste.ubuntu.com/5881396/
<MartijnVdS> [    28.268] (--) SIS(0): Detected LCD/plasma panel (1024x768, 1, non-exp., RGB18 [12c500])
<MartijnVdS> so it's doing something..
<MartijnVdS> I don't know, sorry..
<nimesh> i have told you that i have downgraded to use my laptop
<MartijnVdS> oh this is the 11.10 log?
<nimesh> yeah because i can't access 12.04
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: but it's hard to debug like this :)
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: does a 12.04 live CD work?
<MartijnVdS> (to test)
<nimesh> so how do i resolve this
<penguin42> nimesh: When you installed 12.04 which 12.04 did you use ? (I know it's an odd question) - 12.04, 12.04.1 or 12.04.2 ?
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: or just "upgrade" from 11.10?
<nimesh> how do i tell
<penguin42> not too sure to be honest - did you download the 12.04 iso yourself? In the last few weeks?
<nimesh> it was a clean install
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: and the installation CD worked correctly?
<nimesh> i can make a live use in a min
<nimesh> yeah it worked on my pc
<nimesh> and it booted up every time
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: so you put the 12.04 CD in the laptop, and it worked with graphics?
<nimesh> no it was about 5 months ago
<nimesh> it did live mode
<penguin42> nimesh: Hmm ok, so the thing is that 12.04.1 and 12.04.2 have different kernels/X stacks installed by default (and different from 12.04) - it's possible one is better or worse
<nimesh> and then after 2 boot after install it happend
<nimesh> i have to go soon so here is my email assistantcall@hotmail.com
<nimesh> ok i have gone really deep into this now
<nimesh> :)
<nimesh> how do i download them
<nimesh> of the ubuntu website
<penguin42> ah, I always find that hard to find
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: go to releases.ubuntu.com
<MartijnVdS> nimesh: there are separate directories for each 12.04 and 12.04.2
<MartijnVdS> don't know where .1 went
<penguin42> nimesh: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04.0/  I think?
<nimesh> ok when i have will have a go later
<nimesh> sorry i mean when i have time later
<nimesh> thanz for all your help
<nimesh> can i give help points or something
<nimesh> to you guys
<nimesh> will download both of them now to try later
<chaleave> I want inspiration for learning  to  program.  What  I  must  learn?
<MartijnVdS> a lot of things
<chaleave> to start of  it
<Laney> popey: your currentcost graphs are broken
<popey> yeah
<popey> the btrfs volume on the server went squiffy
<popey> reboot and it's fine â»
<popey> but i am missing something
<chaleave> i  am  reading  manual  of  ubuntu
<chaleave> but  the  next  what
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: first determine what you want to write
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: what kind of program, what should it do
<popey> i think maybe a usb serial issue
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: then, pick a language and start doing its tutorial
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: know that REALLY learning how to program takes years of practice
<MartijnVdS> but simple things should be possible a lot earlier
<chaleave> What  language  to  start  learning
<chaleave> for  ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: doesn't really matter. Python is a popular choice, I think
<chaleave> I  had  learned  php
<chaleave> but  my  ability  that  low  class
<chaleave> I  don't  know  the  next
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<bigcalm> Anybody here use git submodules come across this sort of thing? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5881465/
<chaleave> ok.  I  will  try  about  python.Thank  you  for  talking.
<chaleave> python  can  writing  about  program  typing  tutor?
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: it's easy to find using google
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: just search for python tutorial
<MartijnVdS> chaleave: http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUY6HGqYweQ
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59guruVL4o
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: BREATHE IN
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: aspirations of being our monarch eh?
<bigcalm> Who here knows git well enough to help me? :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what do you want to know?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5881465/
<MartijnVdS> looks like curl can't find SSL certs to check github's authenticity
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if you don't care, you can git config --global http.sslverify "false"
<bigcalm> Is the ca cert something that the hosting company should keep on top of with updates?
<MartijnVdS> yes, but the /usr/local path doesn't look right
<MartijnVdS> are you on a linux machine?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> No
<bigcalm> FreeBSD
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you forgot the BREATH OUT bit popey is turning purple
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: the dalek took care of that
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: check where the CA certs are (in /etc/ssl on Linux)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: and set http.sslCAPath to that directory (using git config --global, or as root git config --system
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: the darleks have exterminated popey for breathing in ;)
<MartijnVdS> if freebsd puts all SSL CA certs in a single file, use http.sslCAInfo
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: poor popey
<bigcalm> There's this: /usr/local/share/curl/curl-ca-bundle.crt
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: what do you mean poor popey it's all your fault you told him to breath in ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is that up to date, and does it contain the cert of github's CA?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I have no idea :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'm not a FreeBSD guru, sorry
<bigcalm> Oh, hold on
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: he didn't have to.. I mean, what am I going to do if he doesn't?
<bigcalm> locate was lying
<MartijnVdS> locate always lies
<bigcalm> locate .crt returned that file. But it isn't actually there
<bigcalm> Of course I can't run updatedb
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: any other .crt or .pem files around?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: t'interweb says you should look in /usr/local/share/certs
<bigcalm> /usr/local/share/certs/ca-root-nss.crt
<MartijnVdS> ok
<MartijnVdS> git config --global http.sslCAInfo that_file
<davmor2> popey: don't worry maybe one of these will save ya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDj7gvc_dsA
<MartijnVdS> or if you're root and want to set system-wide configs, git config --system
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: progress, thanks :)
<bigcalm> But...
<bigcalm> fatal: https://github.com/PHPMailer/PHPMailer.git/info/refs download error - The requested URL returned error: 403
<bigcalm> Clone of 'https://github.com/PHPMailer/PHPMailer.git' into submodule path 'codebase/htdocs/vendors/PHPMailer' failed
<bigcalm> Which is confusing as it worked from my dev server
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: have you tried the git:// URL instead?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: compare ~/.gitconfigs
<MartijnVdS> ~/.gitconfig
<penguin42> bigcalm: I was having some hit problems as well - but from git.kernel.org getting some 404s
<davmor2> me is starting to warm to musictube :)
<penguin42> ^hit^git
<bigcalm> This is odd. I have a .gitmodues and a submodule section in .git/config
<bigcalm> Setting the one in .git/config to use git:// works \o/
<bigcalm> Thank you peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> yay
<bigcalm> Spectraball feels as though somebody really enjoyed the power ball stages of Metroid Prime
<bigcalm> This could be why I like it :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-17
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have likewise-open application which is an authentication system for Windows AD and I am trying to configure ringswitcher. Does likewise-open support it?
<alepot> help /cs
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo_> Morning all
<ryiter> hello
<ryiter> anyone ?
<MartijnVdS> hi
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<ryiter> is it possible to do su - user -p  password in online?
<ryiter> in one line
<ryiter> anyone there ?
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: I don't know what you mean?
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: he just wants to run su as a specific user and it ask for the password.
<ryiter> i simply would like to change to an other user
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but online?
<ryiter> not online
<MooDoo> in one line.
<ryiter> in one line
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: :p
<ryiter> means i would like to su  to an other user
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: su - user
<ryiter> without using password
<MartijnVdS> it'll ask for the password
<MartijnVdS> otherwise you're going to have to use sudo
<ryiter> well i don't want that it ask me for password
<MartijnVdS> you can configure sudo to allow that
<ryiter> that's why i said i would like to put the password like that su - user -p  password
<MartijnVdS> you could probably do it with su and PAM configuration, but that's going to be hard & a lot of work & break every other upgrade
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: su doesn't allow the password on the command line, because of security issues (other users could see it using 'ps')
<ryiter> i m looking for a command in one line
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: "sudo -u user -s -H" or "sudo -u user -i", probably
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: and some editing of /etc/sudoers (please use visudo, it'll warn you if the file is not correct instead of making it impossible to use sudo)
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: The manual page for sudoers ("man sudoers") should have examples to do that
<ryiter> no
<ryiter> you still don't understand my question
<ryiter> i simply looking for one line command
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: yes: sudo -u user -i
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: but, you have to configure the system first.
<MartijnVdS> there is no other way, because of security
<ryiter> i still can't understand where is the security issue ?
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: if you supply the password on the command line, another user could do "ps ax" and know the password
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: that is why "su" does not have an option to specify the password on the command line
<TheOpenSourcerer> It will also live in your .bash_history in plaintext too I guess for sometime at least.
<ryiter> don't care i simply would like to check
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that, too
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Still not tested the free beer yet ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will try and collect it today
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: what's the end goal? checking the password? doing things as the other user?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yay :)
<ryiter> end of the goal is just for try
<ryiter> simply
<MartijnVdS> try what?
<MartijnVdS> try to see if the password is correct?
<ryiter> that will simplify lots of thing
<ryiter> i found something on the net
<ryiter> echo <password> | sud -  user
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: can you explain the problem you're solving, instead of just the one solution you've already thought of?
<ryiter> but not working
<ryiter> i simply would like to create an alias
<ryiter> with that
<ryiter> that's all
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: that doesn't answer my question
<MartijnVdS> what problem are you solving that requires you to do this?
<MartijnVdS> because really what you seem to want is a proper "sudo" configuration so you can "be" (run programs as) the other user for a while
<ryiter> the problem is i got a list of users on :my system i don't want to search for the password each time
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: so you configure sudo (through /etc/sudoers) to let you use your own password (or no password) instead
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: problem solved
<ryiter> as i don't have access on /etc/sudoers
<ryiter> i simply looking to create an alias
<ryiter> do you get ?
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: in /etc/sudoers, put a line:
<ryiter> i know that
<ryiter> but don't have access on /etc/sudoers  permission denied
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: sudo visudo
<ryiter> but don't have access on /etc/sudoers  permission denied
<MartijnVdS> it will open an editor to edit sudoers for you
<ryiter> MartijnVdS:
<ryiter> but don't have access on /etc/sudoers  permission denied
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: I saw your line the first time
<ryiter> so i can't visudo anything
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then you are probably not in the sudo group
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: sudo visudo doesn't work either?
<ryiter> yes of course
<ryiter> i will never work
<TheOpenSourcerer> You do not have the authourity.
<ryiter> one solution for my problem
<ryiter> is simply to create an alias with putting the passsword in clair
<ryiter> that's all
<MartijnVdS> that's impossible
<MartijnVdS> because none of the programs that allow you to log in accept a password on the commandline or on stdin
<TheOpenSourcerer> You will need to boot your machine from a CD and mount / so you can edit /etc/group.
<ryiter> of course it should be possible
<ryiter> impossible not french
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: except it's not, because that would create security issues
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then you will be able to edit /etc/group and /etc/sudoers
<TheOpenSourcerer> If the administrator did not give you sudo access then maybe they do not want you to do these things...
<ryiter> there is also an other solution maybe i m not sure
<neuro> lol
<neuro> 'ning all
<ryiter> is it possible to generate a local key  and switch all user without password
<TheOpenSourcerer> Linux is intended to be a *secure* system...
<neuro> ryiter: what problem are you trying to solve here?
<MartijnVdS> !xy | ryiter
<lubotu3> ryiter: The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<neuro> i don't understand "switch all user"
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<neuro> hey brobo
<TheOpenSourcerer> You brobostigon sanity at last!
<MartijnVdS> oh hi TheOpenSourcerer 8-)
<MartijnVdS> and good morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning neuro, TheOpenSourcerer and MartijnVdS
<neuro> YOU! BROBOSTIGON! SANITY! :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: NAO!
<brobostigon> me sane, if only.
<neuro> YOU! MARTIJN! YAR!
<ryiter> i allready mentied X Y Z
 * TheOpenSourcerer needs moar coffee.
<ryiter> simply
 * brobostigon shares some of his special coffee.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Dark Roast?
<ryiter> i would like to authentificate to an user in one line
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: sudo -u user
<MartijnVdS> +-i
<ryiter> i m looking something like this : su - userboss --password mypersopassword
<neuro> doesn't work like that
<neuro> and leaving passwords lying around in shell history is kinda stupid
<ryiter> when i copy and paste this line : su - userboss --password mypersopassword
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: like we told you: su can't do that, sudo CAN be configured to do something like that
<ryiter> i simply would like to switch to user userboss
<ryiter> without asking me for passsword
<neuro> only way i can think of is ssh key
<neuro> ssh blah@localhost
<ryiter> you are correct
<neuro> with a passwordless key
<ryiter> but can we ssh key in local
<neuro> of course
<ryiter> once you are in the terminal
<ryiter> can you remember what are the command i have to generate for that ?
<neuro> what's the big deal about typing in a password, really?
<neuro> google for generate ssh key
<ryiter> i got a list of user on my system
<ryiter> i don't want to look for the password each time
<MartijnVdS> ryiter: "sudo -i -u userboss" + in /etc/sudoers: "user ALL = (userboss) ALL" (I think)
<neuro> on *your* system
<ryiter> kill me lots of time
<neuro> why do you care about the passwords if it's *your* system
<neuro> don't you have root?
<ryiter> it 's not my own system
<ryiter> it is an shared system
<TheOpenSourcerer> neuro: He is not in the sudo group by the sounds of things.
 * TheOpenSourcerer runs away.
<neuro> ryiter: so basically you're just wanting to hack into other accounts on a shared host
<ryiter> there is no hack
<MartijnVdS> neuro: these are not the droids you're looking for
<neuro> if you do not have any form of superuser credentials, why would you need access to other people's accounts?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, you could email the sysadmin and ASK him for the sudoers access
<neuro> :)
<MartijnVdS> it's a people problem :P
<ryiter> i  m looking something technically
<neuro> it sounds like you're looking something hacky
<ryiter> i m know how to troubleshoot in otherwaysq
<ryiter> for now i simply looking the exact answer for my question
<MartijnVdS> so it's for a class?
<MartijnVdS> schoolwork?
<neuro> i can't think of a valid reason for a non-sysadmin to require access to other user's accounts and their passwords
<neuro> if anything, i think this is a vindication for, you know, passwords
<ryiter> don't try to do politics please
<neuro> i do not think that word means what you think it means
<neuro> seriously
<neuro> if you explain the "why"
<neuro> we can probably explain the "how"
<neuro> it's called two-way trust
<neuro> you first
<ryiter> i explain here everything
<neuro> no, you really haven't
<ryiter> i m not good for doing politics
<neuro> you're on a shared system and you want to log in as other users without having to type their password
<neuro> and you already have a list of passwords
<neuro> hmmmmm
<neuro> context is everything
<ryiter> well i m leaving i I have exhausted all my energy
<neuro> crazy french hacker types
<TheOpenSourcerer> dork.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: no, "Dorque"
<neuro> french dork apparently connecting from an environmental services company in Saint-Maurice
<neuro> sorry, dorquÃ©
<neuro> he sounded like either the world's worst hacker, or the world's worst junior sysadmin
<TheOpenSourcerer> A sysadmin without sudo... hmm.
<neuro> with a list of passwords
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://foaas.herokuapp.com/ <<< NSFW
<hd5770> :( i need a job
<MartijnVdS> hd5770: what kind?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hd5770: What are your skills?
<neuro> huh ... http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/194.250.34.254
<neuro> (wiki fr edit history from ryiter's IP ...)
<neuro> hd5770: i believe a variety of fast food outlets are always hiring ...
 * neuro runs
<Monotoko> today is going to fun... our ol' Windows 2000 cluster died :(
<neuro> *nice*
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: good luck :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy International Criminal Justice Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: For great justice!
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, YES!
<neuro> hurrah, vigilantes ahoy!
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS++
<MartijnVdS> neuro: like ryiter you mean?
<neuro> lol
 * JamesTait chuckles.
<neuro> nah, he was just an awkward french poorly-skilled hacker
<JamesTait> That made a very interesting read first thing in the morning.
<neuro> actually, s/hacker/idiot/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: nah, just misguided
 * TheOpenSourcerer has free beer!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: with coffee in it
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: really.. Dark Roast is made with coffee
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will need to take it home and refrigerate it before tasting.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: is the weather still sunny & hot?
<TheOpenSourcerer> very MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> then I suggest you try "Broeders" first, once it's cooled :)
<brobostigon> 28c this afternoon, humid, huge UV levels, huge pollen levels,
<TheOpenSourcerer> Next Wed the BBC are predicting 35'
<MartijnVdS> yeah we have similar predictions
<brobostigon> ouch
<MartijnVdS> but we have the nice cooling influence of the North Sea
<MartijnVdS> so it's only going to be 31
<MartijnVdS> (Â°C)
<brobostigon> i am falling apart already in this heat, never mind another 10c ontop of it.
<neuro> 19ÂºC up here \o/
<neuro> my house is measurably cooler today, thank god
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008CNQEWA
<brobostigon> Â£649, ouch.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but probably way overkill too
<brobostigon> probably.
<MartijnVdS> 10000 BTU/hr ~= 3KW
<neuro> There are fields, Neo, endless fields, where humans are no longer born, they are grown.
<MattJ> For some reason I feel cooler today, but the thermometer says it's the same temperature as yesterday...
<MattJ> humidity 1% down
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: that's because you ARE cooler!
<MattJ> \o/
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: but not hotter
<MartijnVdS> it's xor
 * MattJ tries to decide what to do for a NAS
<dwatkins> I decided to give up messing around with software and got a Synology DS413j
 * MooDoo uses a netgear nas duo but is also looking at a synology box
<MattJ> Encryption an option with either?
<MartijnVdS> I'm on my second Synology, it's great
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: higher-end Synologies can encrypt
<neuro> i have two readynas NV+ here (1x v1, 1x v2), but getting a ds413j for esxi storage in a couple of weeks
<dwatkins> I assume you'll just use gigabit to connect to it, neuro,
<neuro> yah
 * popey hugs his HP Microserver with 12x2TB
 * popey also hugs btrfs
<neuro> wait, what?
<popey> 4 internal, 8 in an extrnal array
<neuro> how did you fit 12 disks in a 4 disk cha... oh ok
<MattJ> popey, you had a drobo once, didn't you?
<popey> I did
<popey> never again
<MattJ> Ok :)
<popey> Unless I switched completely to OSX
<popey> Then I may consider it.
<MattJ> That the only issue? They have ethernet models, don't they?
<MattJ> which I would hope use some standard protocol
<dwatkins> Time Machine is very slow over a network.
<MattJ> (standard protocols \o/)
<neuro> dwatkins: it's not that bad
<popey> the main issues... the on-disk format is proprietary.
<MattJ> Ouch
<popey> (as with most raid controllers)
<MattJ> I just want something simple :( (but encrypted, oops)
<popey> so if your drobo dies, you have to get another one to access the data
<MartijnVdS> the Synology uses standard dm-raid
<MartijnVdS> or md-raid
<MartijnVdS> whatever is the software raid in the linux kernel
<MartijnVdS> + lvm
<dwatkins> neuro: I suspect there's something for which I need to reinstall, as I've seen loads of threads about Time Machine getting slow after upgrading, when using wifi or ethernet
<popey> thats very nice!
<neuro> dwatkins: this laptop is doing a time machine backup right now
<neuro> pushing 8-10MB/s over 802.11n
<popey> i do time machine from macbook pro over wifi to my hp microserver
<neuro> to a USB2 RAID1 array on a mac mini connected to gigabit
<MartijnVdS> neuro: meanwhile you're also using it to boil some water for tea? :)
<neuro> noe
<dwatkins> yeah, I think my Macbook Pro needs fixing, as I get 2 MB/s backing up via wifi.
<neuro> nope
<popey> my microserver went nuts the other day, disks went read-only
<popey> rebooted and it's all fine, no data loss
<neuro> dwatkins: or maybe better wifi ap?
 * popey hugs btrfs
<neuro> popey: you can keep your experimental file system, ta :)
<neuro> for now, anyway
<dwatkins> neuro: perhaps, but I get 10 MB/s just copyhing files with it
<MartijnVdS> popey: I've found btrfs on spinning rust to be excruciatingly slow
<MartijnVdS> popey: looong access times
<popey> interesting
<neuro> dwatkins: lots of small files?  lots of tiny files + hard links + higher latency = hmmmmm
<dwatkins> neuro: perhaps, yes
<neuro> that's why i stopped doing rsnapshot to an nfs mount
<popey> heh
<popey> i do rsnapshot but over ssh
<neuro> plugged in 2 1TB USB disks, did some md raid1 magic and pointed rsnapshot there instead
<neuro> popey: you mean you pull backup data over ssh to a local disk target?
<popey> yes
<neuro> yeah, that's what i do
<neuro> but before that it was an nfs mounted target
<neuro> and the hard links were causing mayhem
<neuro> esp for the initial cp -al and the deletes later
<neuro> maildirs + nfs = ew
<popey> yeah, my rsnapshot takes 1.5 hours to do the rm and the cp -al
<popey> maybe longer
<neuro> are you doing the lazy delete?
<popey> [01/Jul/2013:18:00:01] /bin/rm -rf /srv/rsnapshot/hourly.5/
<popey> [01/Jul/2013:19:15:23] mv /srv/rsnapshot/hourly.4/ /srv/rsnapshot/hourly.5/
<hd5770> supa duppa skills
<popey> wossat?
<popey> cp -al takes 40 mins
<neuro> popey: use_lazy_deletes
 * popey googles
<neuro> it'll move the oldest directory to [interval_name].delete
<neuro> and when the copying and rsyncing is finished, it removes the pid file, *then* does the delete
<popey> oh that sounds fun
<popey> will try that now. i haven't re-enabled rsnapshot cron jobs after the disk fun the other day, will do now
<neuro> so if another rsnapshot process comes along, it won't get blocked due to a pid hanging around
<popey> thanks muchly
<neuro> handy if your jobs are running up against your intervals
<popey> yeah, i get that a lot
<popey> because the jobs always overrun
<neuro> exactly
<popey> but I dont necessarily want to let them stomp on eachother do I?
<neuro> well they won't
<neuro> the directory to be deleted gets uniquely named
<popey> but on a slow system could you end up with a load of to be deleted pid'ed directories?
<neuro> so it'll move daily.5 to delete.15819 or something
<neuro> sure
<neuro> but at least your backup jobs will still be running
<hd5770> MartijnVdS one that gives me money
<popey> k, will give that a punt, thanks!
<hd5770> TheOpenSourcerer basic admin i guess
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2013/07/ubuntu-coaster-and-other-animals/
<neuro> popey: np
<neuro> hd5770: whereabouts are you based?
<hd5770> Wales!
<hd5770> cardifff
<neuro> ah well :)
<hd5770> i got a car
<neuro> $work is probably hiring soon
<hd5770> i can drug run for some one
<hd5770> $work ?
<neuro> but $work is in oxfordshire (note that I am not!)
<neuro> $work
<neuro> as in $employer
<popey> hah, excellent TheOpenSourcerer
<neuro> probably gonna hire a senior php dev, and a junior dev/sysadmin
<neuro> slash office it bod
<neuro> slash coffee monkey
<hd5770> lol
 * BigRedS cringes at "dev/sysadmin"
<BigRedS> uh, despite being one
<neuro> i know i know
<MartijnVdS> sys/devadmin
<neuro> it's the worst kind of devops
<BigRedS> but really by "dev" is just having time dedicated to sysadmin scripts
<neuro> get a junior in to do some minor coding and some sysadmin/local IT
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: All this hot weather keeps making think of a long lunch with beer in the sun... AlanBell? czajkowski?
<neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: damn you guys for being close to each other in meatspace!
<christel> mmmbeer.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You are not allowed chris
<neuro> this is the only really annoying thing about working from home, long lunches with beers in the sun make me look like a creep sitting along in the beer garden :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel:
<christel> see, you're such a hater :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> ^--^ Hope you are feeling better today?
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Hope my sone gets to do stuff like that at school
<christel> i never get invited to ANYTHING ANYMORE :P
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: yah, feeling good :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Drop the sprog and you can come out again ;-)
<dwatkins> christel: neither do I, but that might be due to living 450 miles north of London ;)
<neuro> i'm actually thinking IT Dogsbody would be a better role description :D
<christel> hehe
<neuro> dwatkins: what, due north? are you in the north sea? :)
<dwatkins> neuro: :-p
 * neuro giggles
 * dwatkins lives in Edinburgh and neuro knows it
<neuro> aye
<neuro> ya embra jakie :)
<dwatkins> also, we have a castle, so ner ;)
<neuro> yeah but it's rubbish and full of americans
<dwatkins> well there's plenty of other awesome hills and nice scenery
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: tricky this week, and next week I'm out of the country
<neuro> "Other hills and scenery are also available"
<dwatkins> a friend of mine who lives in London comes up once a year because she misses how awesome Edinburgh is
<dwatkins> hehe
<dwatkins> please book early to avoid disappointment
<neuro> :)
<neuro> i'm tempted to go out in a wee run in the car at the w/e
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey ho popey nm. It'll probably be raining by the time you get back.
<neuro> maybe head out fife way
<neuro> st andrews beachiness
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've just booked my first evah hovercraft trip. Going to the Isle of Wight Chilli festival next weekend.
<neuro> the wat?
<neuro> chilli people are weird
<TheOpenSourcerer> neuro: http://isleofwightchillifiesta.co.uk/
<dwatkins> Red Hot Chilli People
<neuro> oh it's a "fiesta", is it?
<dwatkins> I might cycle up into the Pendlands, I really like it up there.
<dwatkins> *Pentlands
<neuro> every time someone says that word, i don't think arrrrrriba!, i think Mk.1 ford fiesta
<MooDoo> ooo bhut jolokia is my fae chilli
<MooDoo> fave
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then two weeks after that it's West Dean: http://www.westdean.org.uk/Events/Outdoorevents/ChilliFiesta.aspx
<neuro> the pentlands?
<neuro> pfff
<neuro> mere pimples on the landscape!
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I agree. They have a fantastic flavour.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yup, nice on bacon cobs :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yesterday I had 2 Trinidad Scorpion "Butch Ts" on my curry. ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fresh from my greenhouse.
<MooDoo> now you're just showing off
<TheOpenSourcerer> BUt unfortunately they were rather small. ~1cm
<TheOpenSourcerer> From an overwintered plant.
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23341504
<popey> \o/
 * christel makes note to visit TheOpenSourcerer to sample all the chilli if this baby doesn't arrive soon
<MartijnVdS> popey: so it's more like you're *fleeing* the country then
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: would love to but I've a day of phone meetings :(
<czajkowski> christel: you've ages left no ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hah christel that will shift it!
<MooDoo> my wife tried chilli did nothing lol
<czajkowski> christel: irc session restarted can you dm me that email address again please...
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Wasn't thinking of today...
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ah ok :) in the future yes
<christel> czajkowski: term this week, just over two weeks until due date (half a week to go until the point at which david arrived!) :)
<christel> so not quite "ages" :)
<czajkowski> has it turned yet?
<christel> but i am convinced she'll be late
<christel> no idea :)
<brobostigon> my brother and his other half are due a little one next month.
<brobostigon> also.
<christel> i hope she has turned!
<christel> (presentation scan at the end of the week, hopefully she's turned -- if she hasnt then they will cut me open on august 1st, which i dont much fancy) :)
<brobostigon> i found the perfect baby grow a few weeks ago, prison orange and stripes, and says in black lattering on the front, "i have been inside 9 months!!" made me laugh.
<neuro> sweeeeeeet: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23326709
<Seeker`> a mini christel running around sounds dangerous
<neuro> potentially 10 new HD freeview channels next year
<MartijnVdS> \o/ freeview
<neuro> including 5 HD simulcast channels from bbc
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Not just versions of BBC One and Two
<MartijnVdS> ?
<neuro> MartijnVdS: bbc one and two are already in HD
<directhex> neuro, great news for those not on reduced-capacity repeater transmitters
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah but the regional versions aren't
<directhex> i.e. most of us
<neuro> MartijnVdS: that's a bbc trust issue
<Seeker`> it'll be BBC 3, BBC 4, CBBC
<neuro> and cbeebies and bbc news
<MartijnVdS> http://www.freeview.co.uk/articles/news-and-features/blog-post/more-hd-channels-coming-to-freeview.html
<neuro> wait
<neuro> what am i saying
<neuro> bbc one hd IS regional
<neuro> just bbc two isn't yet
<MartijnVdS> neuro: after the news, I get the red screen with "Programmes for your area are not available on this channel. Please switch to channel 101" or something similar
<directhex> bbc one hd isn't regional is it? doesn't it tell you to bog off back to SD for regional news?
<popey> neuro: not on virgin it isnt
<neuro> MartijnVdS: but you're not in the UK
<neuro> popey: tis on freeview
<christel> Seeker`: oh i already have one, he's 3 and a half :)
<popey> during regional programmes they punt you back to SD BBC1
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I'm not, but I do get freesat :)
<neuro> oh, i know what the problem is
<neuro> it's not "regional"
<neuro> but Scotland and Wales are in HD
<MartijnVdS> BBC One NI has a HD version
<neuro> and NI yeah
<popey> like after the 10pm news, the regional news isn't on
<neuro> tis up here :)
<popey> you get a nice picture of helicopters and lighthouses
<MartijnVdS> Wales as well
<MartijnVdS> popey: or swimming hippos
<neuro> but yeah, bbc 3 and 4 hd would be nice
<neuro> since they replaced BBC HD with 2 HD
<MartijnVdS> that would be great
<neuro> so everything on 3 and 4 is in bloomin' SD for the first time in years
<MartijnVdS> neuro: the Dutch public broadcaster's channels are all in HD, but most programmes are still made in SD
<neuro> well that's just stupid :)
<MartijnVdS> so we get upscaled stuff everywhere
<diplo> popey: Do you know if there are any examples of apps in touch using oauth yet ?
<diplo> http://www.goodreads.com/api - Want to try over next couple of weeks writing a touch app to use this
<popey> diplo: not sure, ask in #ubuntu-app-devel â»
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> That was my next Q, joined there but wasn't sure if it should be touch or devel :)
<diplo> ta
<MattJ> Ok, now I'm hot
<MooDoo> aircon ftw
<MattJ> :(
<BigRedS> do any mail clients default to hiding the PGP signature block and suchlike, and instead just show you the mail?
<directhex> BigRedS, yes, thunderbird with enigmail installed, and evolution
<Monotoko> is there a way to get a formatted list of outgoing mail between two times from the mail.log
<BigRedS> Monotoko: I've a Perl script for doing that on Qmail somewhere
<directhex> Monotoko, mail.log isn't standardized, it depends on which mail daemon you're using
<BigRedS> directhex: ah, ta
<SuperMatt> also, the mail log doesn't contain mail contents
<BigRedS> Monotoko: depending on what you mean by "list of outgoing mail"
<mungbean> Surface RT (32GB) - Â£133 + VAT
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: because nobody wants it?
<brobostigon> and i would wipe windows, and put something better on it.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Except you can't
<BigRedS> I'd like a surface
<BigRedS> if it's as good as the hype, and were it possible to stick Linux on it
<brobostigon> penguin42: oh dear,
<penguin42> brobostigon: The ARM WIndows tablets are signed firmware where they don't let you load a different key
<davmor2> BigRedS: you have one it's next to your sink in the kitchen :P
<brobostigon> penguin42: again, oh dear.
<BigRedS> davmor2: I'd like a surface *that's not covered in dirty crockery* :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: Think outside the box, hire a clean end of dirty crocks, and a nice clean surface for you :)
<neuro> at that price, i'd buy a surface rt just to mess around in, but given that I already have an iPad 2, BlackBerry Playbook, Kindle Fire HD and a Nexus 7, I'd say I'm tableted out :)
<neuro> also, Windows RT
<popey> ditto
<neuro> the touchy slidy boxy bit of Windows 8 is the bit I like least
<popey> ipad, chinese android thing, two nexus 7.. enough tablets in this house
<neuro> :)
<popey> sophie is saving up for an ipod touch
<neuro> at some point i'll upgrade the ipad, but until then, no moar tablets
<neuro> i'm actually more tempted to get a "regular" kindle again, the kindle fire is just too much of a pain in the backside
<popey> oh, and a nook
<neuro> hmmm, paperwhite, worth it?
<AlanBell> I looked at a paperwhite next to a regular kindle, didn't seem worth it to me
<AlanBell> you can't get the fonts to go any smaller than a regular kindle
<AlanBell> fonts are a touch smoother, background is a fraction whiter, backlight is a good thing, but overall I wasn't tempted after I saw it
<popey> 30 quid jobbie
<neuro> ew
<neuro> sounds expensive for a poop
<davmor2> popey: man who'd of thunk it, you and me have a high compatibility on last.fm
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> not HIGH compatibility?
<popey> i never actually use last.fm
<popey> i just scrobble from spotify
<MartijnVdS> I scrobble from spotify at home and rb at home
<popey> amazed I've only scrobbled ~5.8K tracks over the years
<BigRedS> I left RB playing a bloodhoung gang album at work when I went on holiday a few years ago and it's permanently skewed my 'tastes'
<MartijnVdS> hahaha :)
<MartijnVdS> "ewps"
<NET||abuse> hi folks
<NET||abuse> i have a unordered list of team members, the li's are dipslay:inline;float:left; and they contain text and images. So the list will wrap based on screen width, on my laptop I get 5 teanm members per row, if i want to have a full width exptended info show up when i click the team member, can i position a div below the current element and have that div push the suceeding rows down?
<NET||abuse> or is that just imposible?
<SuperMatt> hmmm, I have a pair of servers to name, should I got with crick and watson, or babbage and lovelace?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: statler and waldorf
<SuperMatt> nope nope
<SuperMatt> scientists is our theme
<SuperMatt> though I know that lovelace and babbage were really mathamaticians
<BigRedS> what do the servers do?
<SuperMatt> they'll be nameservers
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Curie and Curie (Marie and Pierre)
<SuperMatt> I'll save curie for later
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Haber & Bosch (from the Haber Bosch process)
<NET||abuse> hmm, mendeleev and... who?
<BigRedS> I'd name them after scientists who had something to do with classification or naming or somethiong
<MartijnVdS> Constantin Fahlberg, inventor of saccharin, the first artificial sweetener
<popey> our offices are named after scientists I think
<SuperMatt> watson and crick were my bosses favoured names :(
<SuperMatt> I sure wanted lovelace and babbage
<SuperMatt> because we need more female representation all up in here
<SuperMatt> I'll make sure I have a Curie at some point
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: there's the #3 discoverer of DNA
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: who was a woman, but who is often ignored
<SuperMatt> that's good, she'll become the third namesever if we need one
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Franklin
<SuperMatt> wasn't there a woman who was strongly involved in relativity?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yeah.. thinking of name now
<MartijnVdS> Lise Meitner?
<MartijnVdS> Emmy Noether?
<SuperMatt> one set, fact checking
<SuperMatt> worked with eddington
<SuperMatt> I don't know :/
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Meitner calculated things for nuclear fission
<SuperMatt> that's the one!
<MartijnVdS> Noether did work that made quantum mechanics possible
<SuperMatt> It was Meitner I was looking for, thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: never hurts to have too many future server names lined up :P
<SuperMatt> wow, so easily the male names come to mind, yet we struggle to think of the women in science
<directhex> we spent hundreds of years keeping women out of science
<NET||abuse> SuperMatt: did you decide, I'm suggesting Mendeleev and Newlands as they created the periodic table between them
<NET||abuse> so that's analogous to DNS
<directhex> although somehow Maria the Jewess managed to innovate in things still used today
<SuperMatt> it's watson and crick, I'm afraid
<MartijnVdS> DNS not DNA
<NET||abuse> but DNA would be more analougous to code, like a git repositoruy
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: Calvin and Hobbes, naturally ;)
<dwatkins> if you need shorter names, Luke & Leia (but be prepared for people to mis-spell Leia all the time)
<dwatkins> In a previous existence, I looked after servers named after constellations, no-one could spell Sagittarius, and it was the mail server, annoyingly.
<NET||abuse> that's a god argument
<MartijnVdS> at a previous employer, we used Star Trek characters
<NET||abuse> use simpler terms, like the names of Gould's from 'tar gat'
<dwatkins> NET||abuse: what is? it's just a star constellation as far as I'm concerned :)
<MartijnVdS> but in the end we had to go with even the most minor ones
<dwatkins> NET||abuse: I like the idea of Stargate references :)
<dwatkins> "Where's the file, is it on Ba'al or Teal'c?"
<NET||abuse> dwatkins: good  argument, not god argument,, that the complex spellings of some constellations would be tricky to remember for all users
<dwatkins> Really confuse your users by implementing server names with the apostrophes in... if that's even possible
<NET||abuse> haha, i dont think dns supports it for the most part
<dwatkins> NET||abuse: yeah, it got silly; thankfully no-one ever setup a server named after cancer.
<NET||abuse> dwatkins: we were using stargate gods for our sprint names, then we switched to star wars planets
<NET||abuse> we ran out of gods
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: doesn't Star Wars only have 5 planets?
<dwatkins> I guess whatever you choose you'll run out eventually, unless you start with AAAAA, AAAAB etc. - then you'll have a lot of work to do before exhausting the namespace.
<dwatkins> I bet the extended Star Wars universe has hundreds.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but the extended universe isn't canon!
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: no, we used them in alphabetical order, 1 every 2 weeks, untill we run up to z. then we choose a new theme
<NET||abuse> so we used up 24 starwards planets
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: that's a hotly debated subject, I discovered recently.
<dwatkins> How about the names of stars we can actually see? ;)
<dwatkins> Betelgeuse is difficult to spell - I bet I got it wrong...
<NET||abuse> x-men,, that's one idea for the new theme
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: CPDâ57Â°10015
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: CDâ45Â°1841
<NET||abuse> dwatkins: haha, ouch, that would suck
<dwatkins> haha
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: I meant you
<dwatkins> Our meeting rooms at work are named after whiskeys
<NET||abuse> Are you in facebook?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: do you also stock them in those rooms? :)
<diplo> I've stopped giving servers names from anything else other than informative, so what/where they are now
<diplo> So much easier
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: who me?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: sadly not, just with water
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: :(
<dwatkins> diplo: yeah, that's the most sensible conclustion - I have "ubuntu-pc" and such like at home.
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: I thought dwatkins might be as I thought I remembered they used whiskey names for something
<NET||abuse> Yeh, for my own pc i juse use my initials and the model, so lab_Dell6340
<diplo> Last job I moved to something like dns-r1 but more detailed for dns server in rack1
<NET||abuse> or such like htat.
<diplo> Oh yeah and model of server
<NET||abuse> gets tricky when you've a huge array of VM's or blades
<NET||abuse> purpose_model_slot#
<dwatkins> at work I use my login name and the same scheme.
<dwatkins> dwatkins-win7 etc.
<NET||abuse> yup, sometimes i've thrown ubuntu into the name also
<NET||abuse> i've not run a windows machine for 6 years now i don't think.
<NET||abuse> Though my missus has a win8 laptop now.. urgh
<NET||abuse> so there is one in the apartment
<dwatkins> dwatkins-ubuntu is too long, isn't it? I think the limit's 15 characters for NetBIOS.
<diplo> NET||abuse: On my vms I had function and which vmserver
<NET||abuse> diplo: yeh, I stopped caring bout which vm server and such when the engineer tok over phsysical maintenance.
<NET||abuse> then i made his life hard by just using purpose or project name
<dwatkins> aha, DNS is more forgiving: (63 letters).(63 letters).(63 letters).(62 letters)
<NET||abuse> hmm, that's decent length actually, as opposed to a NETBios name being 15 characters
<dwatkins> no, I'm wrong, it's that minus one character, 253
<dwatkins> so for safety, assume each part of the name (four maximum) should be 62 chars or less, I guess.
<dwatkins> if you have a five-part hostname, you're special ;)
<NET||abuse> ooh, never thought of a sub sub sub domain
<dwatkins> many people don't
<dwatkins> I've seen applications fail because someone in the US didn't consider companyname.co.uk, they only considered companyname.com or similar
<NET||abuse> the total fqdn just is limited to 255 right? so at 5 you can just limit it to 51 characers
<dwatkins> NET||abuse: 253, I think, as it's limited to 254 but a dot gets added ot the end
<NET||abuse> ahh, right,,
<dwatkins> like with IP addresses, I always assume a bit of contingency
<NET||abuse> that said, i dont' think i've ever seen, even a hash based name over 24 characters
<NET||abuse> in a segments
<dwatkins> http://www.llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch.com/
<NET||abuse> bloody welsh
 * dwatkins bows deeply
<dwatkins> you're welcome :D
<dwatkins> or "eich bod yn croesawu" as apparently they say, I'm just descended from them.
<penguin42> wow, that only just fits
<dwatkins> pure genius in their tourist board, clearly.
<Azelphur> Tried out Ubuntu phone last night, looks really cool, can you get X applications running on it?
<dwatkins> "oi Dave, let's rename the village to encourage tourism, shall we?" ... "ok Owen, but make sure it's not too long so we can make a domain name of it when the internet gets invented"
<popey> Azelphur: no currently
<popey> it doesnt have x
<dwatkins> There appear to be about 9 of me on Facebook.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Disconcerting isn't it
<Azelphur> popey: fun, is it gonna have xmir at some point?
<mungbean> there's always a gay topless one too
<mungbean> its a rule of the internet. every has a topless facebook twin
<popey> Azelphur: ask in #ubuntu-touch â»
<Azelphur> aww :p
<popey> the developers hang out theree
<diplo> Hmm ok, we have a customer who has a system that doesn't use passwords to login to our app
<diplo> We're developing a new app, same thing but web based where we have a tab with a terminal inside the browser to keep working with stuff we haven't developed yet
<diplo> Issue is, when clicking on that tab it logs them in because they have no password prompt
<diplo> With out adding a password, is there anyway that anyone knows of, to make them have the prompt with ssh connecting but can hit enter through the password ?
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<mungbean> wondering about astroturfinh my garden
<diplo> Yes we are trying to tell them to use a password, but they are quite adament they don't want one
<diplo> Oh and the reason we don't want it to auto login is licenses, each login uses one :)
<penguin42> diplo: Well I guess you can do anything with pam
<diplo> Just reading into pam now
<penguin42> diplo: Are you saying the act of logging in on the target uses a license or is it something post login?
<diplo> We use any non system users are 1 license, so if they have multiple sessions keep logging in the use a license ( we're not strict about it though )
<diplo> More the problem is going to be with a lot of dead sessions
<penguin42> license stuff is always a good way to make life harder
<penguin42> diplo: Do they get a shell?  I'm thinking of something like an authorized_keys file where the key only allows them to run a specific command and that waits for the return or something
<diplo> there .profile basically auto logs them into our app
<diplo> penguin42: thats an idea
<diplo> If I can't find another way, that defo sounds doable
<penguin42> diplo: Oh well before that in the .profile just put a    read DUMMY
<diplo> yeah but they are logged in by the time it's read the profile which = license, and yes totally agree with licensing it sucks!
<diplo> Hmm requiredAuthentications password, keyboard-interactive
 * diplo googles latter
<diplo> Added "read -sn 1 -p "Press any key to continue.. " .. works but sucks!
<diplo> :P
<penguin42> where's the any key?!
<diplo> lol
<mungbean> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2013-July/041900.html Direct3D 9 Support Released For Linux
<SuperMatt> how exactly does this work? If I run something in wine it'll work? Or does someone need to create a linux binary, but not bother to rewrite direct-x code for opengl?
<mungbean> they seemed to have success with certain problematic games under wine
<SuperMatt> I see
<SuperMatt> so they're still running under wine?
<penguin42> yeh but made the Direct3D 9 part of Wine work
<SuperMatt> gotcha
<SuperMatt> well that's pretty snazzy
<mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1igw7r/direct3d_9_support_released_for_linux/
<mungbean> lots of comments i don't have time to read
<SuperMatt> lol
<mungbean> "Wine has a Direct3D to OpenGL translator that has significant performance overhead and spotty compatibility. This makes most open-source 3d drivers speak Direct3D natively, on par with OpenGL, so Wine doesn't need the translator any more"
<mungbean> sums it up
<SuperMatt> would be nice to see it mashed together with the next wine release
<mungbean> Downsides are that this fundamentally can't work with any of the closed-source drivers or the current Intel open-source drivers, so Wine can't throw away the wined3d translation layer yet.
<mungbean> lol
<SuperMatt> hah
 * penguin42 wonders what other interface there is than OpenGL that X provides
<popey> nice for people playing "older" D3D 9 games on Intel though?
<SuperMatt> yarr
<SuperMatt> I assume that because dx9 is backwards compatible with older versions, that it should give a boost to other games?
<mungbean> seems to be lots of difference of opinion on that thread
<mungbean> dont know what to believe
<popey> there is no spoon
<mungbean> only cake
<popey> liar
<bigcalm> If there is no spoon or cake, what am I eating?
<bigcalm> Oh, a banana
<mungbean> eating a plum than was deceptively soft on the outside
<mungbean> and taste like potato inside
<davmor2> mungbean: I think you'll find that is a purple potato ;)
<mungbean> still ate it
<BigRedS> Oh wow maplin has some wonderful air conditioning going on
<BigRedS> I was so grateful I bought a switch
<dwatkins> ...and thus the cost of their electricity bill for today is justified
<BigRedS> it was a Â£6 switch
<penguin42> BigRedS: Is it a big red switch?
<BigRedS> haha, no, I didn't think of that
<dwatkins> that's either a cheap switch, or a button with far too much functionality
<popey> BigRedS: GbE?
<popey> for 6 quid i expect it's 10baseT
<BigRedS> popey: nah, 12V IP67 toggle switch
<mungbean> i added up the memory shown by top, ps etc, and it comes not even close to the memory in use by my system :S
<mungbean> and i uunderstand cache,free,buffers, etc
<popey> "in use"?
<mungbean> Mem:       4021136    3816856     204280          0      42452     206328
<mungbean> -/+ buffers/cache:    3568076     453060
<mungbean> Swap:      4095996    1450104    2645892
<dwatkins> I didn't think top showed all processes
<dwatkins> I imagine there's a switch for 'ps' that will, though, and their memory usage.
<mungbean> 4 S root      1080     1  0  80   0 - 523459 poll_s Jun27 ?       00:00:02 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon --no-daemon
<mungbean> what's that?
<mungbean> seems to be taking loads of SZ
<popey> apt-cache show $(dpkg -S /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon)
<popey> â»
<mungbean> what's the size on other ppls systems?
<popey> root     11946  0.0  0.0 2093964 1504 ?        Sl   13:29   0:00 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon --no-daemon
<BigRedS> root      2141  0.0  0.0 2091756 3948 ?        Sl   08:48   0:00 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon --no-daemon
<BigRedS> popey starts work late...
<davmor2> right here, right now, right here, right now, right here, right now, check it out now funk soul brother..  bet you can't guess what I'm listening too :)
<popey> heh
<popey> your own mortality?
<popey> popey updates his machine and reboots it in the mornings â»
<davmor2> popey:  wow your computer does time travel
<BigRedS> 13:29 isn't morning!
<mungbean> top -b -n 1 | grep cons 1080 root      20   0 2044m 1520 1384 S    0  0.0   0:02.35 console-kit-dae
<mungbean> huge virtual mem, low res, shr
<popey> its lying
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ uptime 15:57:29 up  6:02,  4 users,  load average: 0.65, 0.87, 0.94
<davmor2> popey: Your computer lies I think you'll find, It created the blue prints for a computer that would get the answer correct :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> thanks for the lovely cold ice cream AlanBell :-D
<popey> git
 * penguin42 is still waiting for his chocolate sorbet to finish freezing
<christel> so unfair! AlanBell never gives me any ice cream :(
<AlanBell> <o
<AlanBell> ^ ice cream cone for christel
<BigRedS> if you hold it like that the ice cream will fall out
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I have "free beer" in the fridge for later ;-)
<penguin42> AlanBell: It'd be better with a Flake   <Q
<christel> AlanBell: \o/
<^2fC> lo all :]
<^2fC> Can anyone help me?
<christel> depends, do you bring ice cream?
 * christel hides
<TheOpenSourcerer> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<^2fC> I am tryin to get Quake 3 to be ported, I have opened them on my Router and given them a IP (game servers IP) and it doesnt seem to show on Internet its on Local Hos :/
<^2fC> hhaha christel :p
<^2fC> sure :D
<^2fC> I have also made a static IP to.
<^2fC> on the Server!
<BigRedS> ^2fC: so you've forwarded the (correct) ports on your router, and have a quake server running elsewhere, but cannot connect to it?
<Laney> hmm
<nimesh> does anyone know of any screen and voice recorders for ubuntu that does not take a lot of cpu or ram
<^2fC> BigRedS: ok here goes: My Room = Router/Switch/Powerline (Static IP on Gaming PC) then in the basement I have: Powerline>Server from Switch in my Room! the server has a static IP and all ports are correctly configured properly with the correct IPs.
<popey> nimesh: i use kazam
<mungbean> +1 for kazam
<^2fC> When I go on my Gaming PC in my Room I can't see it on the Internet List of Quake 4 server Browser.. also if I try and connect with the IP/Port it does not connect I have to use 192.168.x.xxx
<mungbean> they should purge all the crappy non working ones from teh repos
<^2fC> quake 3*
<directhex> is the quake 3 master server still operating?
<popey> mungbean: i had xvidcap purged
<mungbean> \o/
<mungbean> there's one called istanbul i think
<mungbean> and some other ouseless crap
<popey> problem is it's like text editors, some work better for others
<directhex> no, looks like master3.idsoftware.com went down years ago
<mungbean> check the reviews for istanbul
<mungbean> 64 reviews
<mungbean> 1 star every time
<popey> file a bug to get it removed from saucy
<mungbean> "I am loathe to criticize apps that people have freely given of their time and skills to create, but Istanbul has NEVER worked for me in ANY Ubuntu respin - not just Ubuntu 12.04.  Perhaps it should be euthanized - either that or recieve a massive dose of new blood from new developers...."
<mungbean> etc etc
<popey> bug 915982
<lubotu3> bug 915982 in xvidcap (Ubuntu) "xvidcap unmaintained, should be removed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/915982
<popey> like that
<mungbean> i will
<mungbean> hmm
<penguin42> there are a lot of universe packages that haven't worked for years because Ubuntu's fortify builds find glaring bugs in them that have been there for decades
<mungbean> allegedly has a maintainer and makes releases
<mungbean> maybe works on debian andnot ubuntu
<penguin42> some are easy enough to fix when you find them - e.g. I got xpilot fixed a few months back
<popey> https://wiki.gnome.org/Istanbul
<popey> where?
<mungbean> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/istanbul
<mungbean> maybe its just a fail on unity
<popey> not tried it for years
<popey> yes, it fails on saucy, i see no indicator
<mungbean> but possibly works on gnome
<mungbean> hence worth having in repos but description should state it clearly
<popey> bug 738551
<lubotu3> bug 738551 in istanbul (Ubuntu) "istanbul doesn't show panel icon under unity" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738551
<penguin42> anyone understand X protocols enough to know what the error in the title of bug 469953 is about - I've just duped another to it, but I've seen that on lots of programs
<lubotu3> bug 469953 in istanbul (Ubuntu) "[record 3d was on] istanbul assert failure: python: ../../src/xcb_io.c:176: process_responses: Assertion `!(req && current_request && !(((long) (req->sequence) - (long) (current_request)) <= 0))' failed." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469953
<daftykins> has anyone encountered systems that just go to a black screen immediately when trying to boot in UEFI mode? 'nomodeset' doesn't help in such a case
<penguin42> I've heard of it, not got any UEFI myself
<directhex> daftykins, i've heard of it on systems with a 32-bit UEFI implementation
<directhex> daftykins, which is some Atom boards, and ancient macs
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> it's an Asus U36SD and U36SG semi-ultrabook with nvidia optimus tech
<penguin42> oh god, Optimus
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> yep
<penguin42> daftykins: Does it light up the external monitor or is it dead on everything
<daftykins> i didn't happen to try an external display as it goes
<directhex> there are multiple ways for optimus to be wired. some don't work.
<daftykins> in fact i should add that this was 12.04.2 also
<daftykins> 64-bit
<directhex> can you disable nvidia entirely from the uefi setup?
<penguin42> and is it grub-efi ?
<daftykins> what i did in the end was left windows 7 installed in UEFI, then i installed ubuntu legacy :D both can boot via a BIOS toggle / boot override :D
<daftykins> it was a friend who was over for the weekend to have an SSD fitted
<daftykins> so i was against the clock
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> i was at a motorcycle club organised music festival on the south west coast cliffs of Guernsey this weekend
<daftykins> here's the view of the sunset with the Hanois lighthouse over the campsite :) http://i.imgur.com/VHk0ZHE.jpg
<davmor2> daftykins: I can tell you what it is if that helps :)  It tries to load the nvidia chipset the nvidia chipset fails back to the intel chipset but the screen is set to minimum brightness.  In saucy it will be better once the nvidia-persistenced driver lands as the optimus gets support
<daftykins> why doesn't it start up fine like legacy mode does though?
<davmor2> daftykins: nvidia-319 + nvidia-prime + nvidia-persistenced should rock on optimus
<daftykins> legacy mode boot of 12.04.2 gets in fine, intel only i expect
<daftykins> UEFI boot - nada
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: uefi boot doesn't work from USB sticks made with unetbootin
<davmor2> daftykins: because legacy tries only the intel whereas uefi knows there is an nvidia card there too and that it needs to switch between the two
<MartijnVdS> it does work from gtk-usb-creator-made sticks and CDs
<penguin42> but you don't need unetbootin any more
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i started with unetbootin, but switched to Universal USB creator from pendrivelinux.com on my second attempt - not sure if that's busted too?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I think that doesn't do efi either
<daftykins> this was making a drive from Windows
<MartijnVdS> the CD always works
<daftykins> i see the black UEFI boot menu though
<daftykins> is that not enough?
<daftykins> davmor2: ah ok, is that true of 12.10 and 13.04 too?
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. it should be
<davmor2> daftykins: Yeap it only will work correctly from saucy on.  You can just turn the brightness up to see the login screen it's not great but it works
<MartijnVdS> yay nvidia
<daftykins> i don't think you can throw that one on nvidia
<daftykins> roll on the day when as default, it'll boot intel only and be able to power down the nvidia chip on optimus. that'd be an acceptable default
<davmor2> daftykins: oh it is,  they never bothered to support optimus on Linux which is the cause
<daftykins> oh i know that
<directhex> typically it's an error in the ACPI implementation
<daftykins> but surely Canonical should work around that
<directhex> which is the fault of the people building the shipping firmware
<daftykins> well, Linux in general but for the case of Ubuntu specifically they should find a workaround imo
<directhex> regardless of nvidia or not
<daftykins> which firmware in that case? the system BIOS?
<directhex> daftykins, problem arises when the brightness value is misreported by the firmware. e.g. wife's netbook never seemed to recover from suspend, as closing lid would issue a lid close event, and opening lid would issue a lid closed event, so display never started again
<daftykins> right
<davmor2> daftykins: what work around.   You need the latest x stack and the latest optimus supported nvidia driver and nvidia prime nothing else wil do it
<daftykins> davmor2: so to verify that, booting as i do, the system should be network reachable (when on wired, naturally) when still being blank?
<daftykins> so it's still booted up
<daftykins> i get the feeling that's not what i was seeing but i could try it ^_^
<davmor2> daftykins: just turn the brightness up
<daftykins> davmor2: the workaround to use intel only
<daftykins> pretty sure it's not brightness in this laptops case
<davmor2> daftykins: that's set via the gfx to intel only in the uefi that would be the work around
<davmor2> daftykins: if it's just the nvidia issue then 1 the brightness up will fix it and if it isn't then you should still be able to ssh in if you setup ssh
<daftykins> i don't think it even boots
<penguin42> daftykins: If brave enough it's worth trying to make sure you're on latest firmware; a lot of UEFI bioses are very broken, a lot of NVIDIA bioses are very broken, but they're getting better
<daftykins> i just tried it then, it stays as a blank screen but i see the backlight on
<daftykins> penguin42: yeah, my step #1 with UEFI issues is always update. i'm current on this one :)
<daftykins> so i go into BIOS, move to boot override and select UEFI: flash drive
<daftykins> black boot menu comes up, i select 'try...'
<penguin42> we've got a batch of laptops at work and each one of us has a different BIOS version and different misbehaviour under X
<daftykins> black screen with backlight on, no response from brightness controls, no lights to show it's alive
<daftykins> haha - doh
<penguin42> but one guy was brave enough to update and it's a lot better for him, so give it a go
<daftykins> no bravery is required ;D
<popey> i tried to bios update my x220 last night, failed
<popey> it locks up at the "flash the bios" stage â¹
<daftykins> erkle!
<penguin42> popey: I bet that set the pulse racing a bit
<daftykins> what update method was it? boot image, program inside the BIOS to read a flash drive...?
<daftykins> ok there was actually a tiny update from 205 to 206, but it made no change
<daftykins> (for my laptops BIOS)
<daftykins> ah well, no biggy, i'm not after running Ubuntu on it :D
<popey> its one where you burn the iso to cd
<popey> so i put the iso image in /grub/images and booted via grub
<daftykins> i tend to steal the binaries from images and paste them onto a win98 booting flash drive :D
<daftykins> then DOS it up
<daftykins> perhaps it detects something resident and gives up 0o
<^2fC-desktop> mmm can anyone help?
<^2fC-desktop> How do I ping my PC in the basement ?
<^2fC-desktop> I just done 192.168.x.xxx and it Timed out...
<TheOpenSourcerer> ^2fC-desktop: Is it an Ubuntu machine
<^2fC-desktop> no windows :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - no idea then. Ubuntu you could do ping local.hostname
<TheOpenSourcerer> or is ti hostname.local
<daftykins> double check the IP of it
<daftykins> click start, type 'cmd' and enter, 'ipconfig' in the command prompt window
<TheOpenSourcerer> anyway you get the idea
<^2fC-desktop> ok thanks lol
<^2fC-desktop> daftykins, ermm I have :)
<AlanBell> how do you think your computer in the basement is connected to your other computer?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can you disable icmp in windows?
<^2fC-desktop> daftykins, its static :)
<penguin42> mungbean: Istanbul seems to basically work under KDE on Saucy, it's not capturing everything though and seems to hit problems on longer records
<daftykins> ^2fC-desktop: ok just checking. running a 3rd party internet security/firewall package that's blocking ping? perhaps it's in 'public' instead of home/work profile mode?
<^2fC-desktop> AlanBell: via a Router/Switch/Power :)
<directhex> yeah, sounds like the network is set to public, which applies a lot of firewalling, instead of private
<^2fC-desktop> daftykins, its on home/work mode and there is no 3rd party stuff on here :)
<daftykins> either you typo'd or your connections not working then :)
<daftykins> are both on wired?
<^2fC-desktop> powerlined
<AlanBell> can both of them ping the router?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or it isn't echoing
<directhex> yeah, good step to try, AlanBell
<daftykins> oh powerline, funsies
<daftykins> are you sure they're on the same circuit? test closer together first
<^2fC-desktop> lol
<daftykins> sockets in the same room preferably
<daftykins> assuming it's the first time you're trying the powerline gear
<^2fC-desktop> yeah first time :)
<^2fC-desktop> it works fine mate I get max speed
<^2fC-desktop> I will fix it!
<^2fC-desktop> I can ping my Router ok..
<daftykins> presumably your system is correctly receiving an IP via DHCP?
<daftykins> ok
<^2fC-desktop> yeah its all been set was pinging it before :/
<daftykins> so there's only two powerline adapters yeah? router is by the windows PC?
<^2fC-desktop> yeah 2
<daftykins> how rude
<^2fC-desktop> :)
<daftykins> ping or SSH the other way work?
<^2fC> trying to ping from basement here now :)
<^2fC> nope wont ping pc in my room either mmm odd
 * penguin42 should worry when G+ starts adding #Chocolate tags for me
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> penguin42: it knows your addiction
<penguin42> it's right
<HoT|2fC^> mmm random drop :/
<daftykins> maybe the powerline adapters have some kind of blocking function? i'd doubt it normally but that seems weird
<daftykins> did you say it worked fine recently but today it's decided no pings for you?
<HoT|2fC^> yeah
<HoT|2fC^> yeah no they dont go sleep or anything :) or block any packets data etc..
<HoT|2fC^> there good ones
<HoT|2fC^> I set the static ip on basement and this PC
<daftykins> could always packet sniff and see if the ping request comes in
<HoT|2fC^> how do I do that :D
<daftykins> install wireshark on one of them
<daftykins> run wireshark and set it to capture on the LAN interface, then ping it from the one without wireshark
<daftykins> ideally with as few programs running as possible to make the packets easier to read + slower moving
<daftykins> i'm assuming you caught some of the above
<HoT|2fC^> thanks daftykins got it all :)
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<HoT|2fC^> :) got alot of updates then so letting them do its work.
<HoT|2fC^> that might fix it lol..
<penguin42> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/17/google_glass_qr_exploit/  is funny
<daftykins> hmm, you'd have to be pretty crazy to not notice a wifi network hop
<penguin42> I don't know how it's represented on glass to know
<HoT|2fC^> daftykins, Do I need to tell my Router aswell about the other PC?
<HoT|2fC^> or shoudnt that matter?
<HoT|2fC^> I did a ping and it timed out and wireshare came up with Echoping etc..
<daftykins> so you pinged PC2 from PC1, wireshark on PC2 showed the ping request come in and the response go out?
<HoT|2fC^> it sent 4 packets
<HoT|2fC^> and didnt receive
<HoT|2fC^> I did this from PC1 yes.
<daftykins> so wireshark is running on the one that's the target?
<HoT|2fC^> both :/
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<daftykins> can you up a screen of wireshark showing the capture at the time?
<daftykins> just be sure it's being run as admin / root
<daftykins> when capturing
<HoT|2fC^> mmm cant seem to now as the PC is slowing down very bad due to updates I will wait untill there done firsrt :o
<^2fC-desktop> daftykins: I got it to ping now :)
<^2fC-desktop> I had to setup ICMP :\
<daftykins> 'setup' ?
<^2fC-desktop> Tick the box off "Allow incoming ehco request"
<^2fC-desktop> in ICMP > Settings of Windows Firewall.cpl
<^2fC-desktop> :)
<daftykins> oh right, it was firewall config then
<daftykins> aaah - maybe it only enables that auto when file sharing which i always do
<^2fC-desktop> Whats annoying me now is Quake 3 wont show on the Internet list :(
<^2fC-desktop> My Gameserver..
<^2fC-desktop> daftykins yeah thats the one.
<daftykins> really does sound like private profile woes that :D
<daftykins> ah well, glad you found it
<^2fC-desktop> :)
<^2fC-desktop> I have doom 3 servers on this PC but the basement one I just wanted to host 1 quake 3 server and it doesnt seem to want to show on the Internet just Local Host :(
<^2fC-desktop> I have tried all port forwarding
<davmor2> There a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold..........
<neuro> NO STAIRWAY!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but.. the lift is out
<daftykins> neuro: hehe
<neuro> MartijnVdS: how dare you be a geek who doesn't get or capitalise on a Wayne's World reference.
<directhex> ^2fC-desktop, which master server are you trying to publish to? the id software quake 3 master server no longer exists, so there'll be no internet servers listed by it at all
<neuro> why are we doing Windows support in here? ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: because WW sucks
<neuro> MartijnVdS: you're dead to me
<^2fC-desktop> directhex, so how are there servers online \o/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I think I was too young to "get it"
<neuro> that's no excuse
<MartijnVdS> dear openwrt compile, you have all my 8 cores to use. HURRY UP
<neuro> dear MartijnVdS, no.
<neuro> said the compiler
<MartijnVdS> neuro: well, it could compile packages in parallel
<neuro> "could"
<brobostigon> some software deoesnt seem to multithread properly over multiple cores/cpus in my experience.
<MartijnVdS> I did make -j9
<neuro> yeah but does the cross compiler you're using support it?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's using several CPUs but not all the time
<neuro> i'm assuming you're not compiling for x86 or x86_64
<neuro> maybe it's distracted
<neuro> STOP WAVING SHINY THINGS AT IT
<MartijnVdS> nah. mips
<neuro> i miss mips
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but it's HASWELL
<MartijnVdS> neuro: buy a TP-Link router and use OpenWRT. Instant mips
<neuro> erm, no
<neuro> i do have an Indy kicking around in here somewhere
<MartijnVdS> neuro: cobalt qube?
<neuro> no, an Indy
<MartijnVdS> the qubes were qute though
<neuro> they were evil little things
<neuro> as were raqs
<MartijnVdS> neuro: not when you put Debian on them ;)
<neuro> that just made them worse
<MartijnVdS> we used one as a CVS server back in '99 or '00
<neuro> we used one to host bits of evolt.org years and years ago
<neuro> can't believe SGI are still going
<neuro> selling storage and Xeon-powered servers now :(
<neuro> although they do have a product called the SGI ICE Cube
<neuro> datacentre in a shipping container
<neuro> 1920U of space, 46K cores, or 29.8PB of storage per container
<neuro> i could put up with a shipping container in my garden if i had 30PB of storage in it
<neuro> not sure the neighbours would be too happy though
<penguin42> neuro: Well their remains got bought out, mostly for their experience and their interconnect
<neuro> i know
<neuro> just didn't think they were still going
<penguin42> neuro: Their Xeon powered servers are the largest single image machines you can buy - so that's not too bad; they're not just relabelling standard boxes
<neuro> didn't think they were :)
<penguin42> neuro: I mean you're not going to be able to find another single image with that many cores
<penguin42> neuro: I don't think there is any other system you can buy that will do 2048cores/16TB of ram
<neuro> if I sellotape 512 macbook airs together, i might
<penguin42> neuro: Your challenge is to build the coherent interconnect over thunderbolt
<MartijnVdS> it has the bandwidth..
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Not really
<neuro> compared to, well, every high performance interconnect, ever? no
<penguin42> (Oracle's M5 can do 32T of RAM in a single system but it's a lot less cores)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: It has the most you can get out of the macbook
 * neuro logs into yet another windows server
 * neuro despairs
<hcfd> neuro: masochist
<neuro> work :(
<hcfd> neuro: wear gloves!
<neuro> it's remote desktop, i'm not actually touching anything that's actively running windows
<MartijnVdS> neuro: still, can't hurt
<neuro> although the number of machines running windows has been increasing at an alarming rate in here
<hcfd> Well, TCP sockets *are* end-to-end ;p
<neuro> dell vostro in 2011, dell xps desktop last year, windows VMs on my macbook pros ...
<MartijnVdS> neuro: time for a new job? ;)
<neuro> hell no
<neuro> (nearly wrote a different word there)
<MartijnVdS> heck
<neuro> the windows stuff in the house is mine
<hcfd> New job? [yes]
<hcfd> <CR> <CR> <CR>
<neuro> the vostro was so i had a windows machine to learn win7 stuff properly, and to manage my ESXi servers
<neuro> the xps was so i could play bf3 and dcs a-10c
<neuro> the windows VMs are in Just In Case
<MartijnVdS> Justin-Kees
<neuro> hcfd: New job to replace existing job that I'm getting a bonus from in my wages next week? [no]
<neuro> he's a great guy is justin
<neuro> nah, the only windows stuff that gives me a headache is work stuff
<neuro> like the mail server that died on its arse and had me working at half five yesterday morning
<hcfd> Gah
<penguin42> neuro: Servers know when it's a bad time to fail
<neuro> my (deceased) predecessor thought it would be a good idea to set up a win2k3 instance on AWS with instance based storage and set to terminate on stop
<MartijnVdS> neuro: job security
<penguin42> neuro: hmm what did you do to him?
<neuro> penguin42: he had a heart attack
<penguin42> erk
<penguin42> neuro: Not while wired into a commando socket?
<neuro> a mate of mine got tapped to help out with db issues after he passed away, and my mate tapped me for help cos he was completely stuck (he's a webdev)
<neuro> and i ended up getting offered the job on the back of that
<neuro> it was actually the best job interview i've ever been on
<neuro> 2.5 days over a weekend and a monday morning resurrecting some mysql infra
<neuro> and i got paid for it
<neuro> but yeah, windows servers
<neuro> penguin42: i don't like to make jokes about it
<neuro> he sounded like a nice guy
<neuro> can't wait for this weather to bugger off, my NASes are hating it
<penguin42> Not Appreciating Summer
<neuro> hh
<neuro> heh
<neuro> actually, my readynas nv+ v2 isn't too bad
<neuro> fan idling at ~ 1500 rpm
<neuro> but my nv+ v1's fans are at 3200
<MattJ> Further to my questions this morning, I decided to disregard everyone's advice and build my own NAS...
<MattJ> based on bits I have around
<neuro> ha, good luck with that
<MattJ> It's going to be great!
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: masochist
<MattJ> Just don't ask me next week
<neuro> when it's on fire
<penguin42> MattJ: Remember to use really really good rubber bands
<neuro> and holy water
<MattJ> neuro, I'm already planning to handle that with an Arduino and a few fans
<neuro> wat
<MartijnVdS> the holy water?
<MattJ> the fire
<MattJ> Actually a smoke sensor would be good
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. Arduinos are Italian, but do they bless water?
<neuro> you're putting an arduino in your nas?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: the arduino IS the nas
<MattJ> My NAS is probbly a bit bigger than your NAS, so yes
<neuro> lol
<neuro> MattJ: let's not play the thing sizing game :)
<MattJ> When I said "bits I have lying around"...
<MattJ> I'm going to shove them into a wooden cabinet I have
<neuro> oh dear
<MattJ> :)
<penguin42> MattJ: Varnish it?
<MattJ> Yes, if I get that far
<neuro> sideboard nas
 * neuro despairs
<neuro> just save your pennies and buy the real thing ;)
<MartijnVdS> don't forget to take it to Antiques Roadshow
<neuro> lol
<neuro> "ah, lovely edwardian panelling, beautiful teak, dual gigabit ethernet and an eSATA port, very nice"
<MattJ> neuro, I came so close to buying one today (off ebay even)... but adding everything up... meh
<MartijnVdS> neuro: hahaha :)
<neuro> it's worth it
<MattJ> Plus it would be good to be able to do more custom stuff
<penguin42> there are some nice pics of 1960s modems in lovely varnished cases with a DB25 on the side
<neuro> i haven't had a log entry on my nv+ v1 since april
<neuro> it just ticks over being awesome
<MartijnVdS> so.. steampunk NAS?
<MattJ> MartijnVdS, I can't say I haven't considered it
<neuro> had to replace a failing drive last november, it dealt with it without missing a beat
<MattJ> I have my eye on a nice old-fashioned gauge for disk usage
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: but how are you going to store several TB of ring-core memory?
<MattJ> mercury delay tubes
<neuro> i still believe that storage should not be mixed with homebrew self build hacking tomfoolery
<neuro> i've lost too much data in the past to leave it to myself
<MattJ> neuro, I believe that too, but I'm temporarily choosing to forget that I believe that
<MattJ> I'll send you the "I told you so" t-shirt in advance
<neuro> well, don't come crying to us when it's, you know, on fire
<neuro> excellent
<neuro> wait
<neuro> this isn't right
<neuro> Load Cycle Count: 1220925
<MartijnVdS> yay automatic sleep mode
<neuro> hope not
<neuro> disk spin down is disabled
<neuro> power cycle count is 24, which sounds right
<MartijnVdS> Desktop disks, which brand?
<neuro> wd greens
<MartijnVdS> Western Digital Green = shite
<neuro> don't swear
<neuro> and you're wrong
<MartijnVdS> they're poo then
<neuro> you're still wrong
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I had to run some kind of Windows utility on it to disable sleep mode
<MattJ> Opinions on Seagate?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: because it has a hidden sleep mode
<neuro> i haven't observed that
<neuro> i reckon it's just smart being unsmart
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's still clicking all the time
<MattJ> I've always had a negative opinion of them, and saw someone today claim how famed they are for reliability
<neuro> seagate = poo
<neuro> no clicks here
 * penguin42 has heard of issues with the WDs before - I'd stay clear of them
<MattJ> I've always used Samsung drives given the choice
<neuro> i've had so many seagates crap out on me i've lost count
<SuperMatt> I've never had any real issues with any hd manufacturer
<MartijnVdS> MattJ: I have a Seagate 3TB disk (7200rpm) for /home
<neuro> i've lost 2 wd drives in 15 years
<neuro> i swear by them
<MartijnVdS> I swear at them ;)
<MattJ> :D
<SuperMatt> haha
<neuro> i have a wd 320gb usb2 doohicky that i've kicked the crap out of so many times being shoved into and taken out of my laptop bag
<neuro> still works perfick
<SuperMatt> I just live by the mantra that if you're relying on a single disk for everything, you're going to have a bad tinme
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: true
<neuro> i had a seagate 1tb usb2 thing that started showing sector errors and clicks of death after about 3 months
<neuro> and it hardly moved
<neuro> i have wd greens, elements, mac passports and a couple of AV-GPs that are all rocking along
<neuro> most of them have been on for years
<neuro> the synology i'm getting next week will have a couple of 2tb reds in it
<SuperMatt> may I take this time to say I have 10TB of space
<SuperMatt> ?
<neuro> in total?
<SuperMatt> yup
 * MartijnVdS can hear neuro "Mine's bigger"
<neuro> amateur
<neuro> would take me a while to count all my storage up
<neuro> probably about 25-30TB in the house total
<neuro> not including boot drives
<SuperMatt> nice work
<SuperMatt> well, I have 10TB in just this one machine
<SuperMatt> which is nice
<neuro> mainly concentrated in the two NV+s, 5.5TB usable each (4x2TB each)
<neuro> another 2TB+1TB usable in my backups server
<neuro> 1TB + 250GB across the ESXi servers
<neuro> 5TB on my TV mac mini
<SuperMatt> good work
<neuro> 2TB firewire plugged into my main MBP
<SuperMatt> I don't think you need to go any further ;)
<neuro> god knows what else is kicking about
<SuperMatt> though I'd be interested to know what you use it for
<neuro> and a couple of spare 2TB wd greens in case anything in the nas goes pop
<neuro> um, porn, mainly porn
<neuro> I KID
<MartijnVdS> also some terrorist plans
<neuro> nas0 is mainly video, nas1 is homedirs, scratch space, etc, backups server backs up all my servers, mac mini *cough* obtains things, and does time machine for itself and my 13" MBP, 2TB in my 15" MBP does local time machine, downloads, scratch space, central iTunes library (~ 150GB)
<SuperMatt> speaking of porn
<SuperMatt> I should organise my folders
<neuro> oh, plus 2TB out in france doing *cough* obtainage
<neuro> and 2TB in montreal being all web servery
<neuro> i still have my original server sitting behind me
<neuro> with it's epic 2.5GB of disk
<neuro> huckled into a pizza box chassis just a bit smaller than a Mac LC
<SuperMatt> hah
<SuperMatt> man, I might actually need more space. The last 2 months of comics com to 47G
<neuro> yikes
<SuperMatt> oh well
<neuro> i'm really only getting this nas so i have a bit of esxi reliability
<neuro> and so i can shut down my pentium "oh, i claim to be 64-bit but i'm not really ha ha" D esxi box
<neuro> which means i'll drop off irc at some point, as the vm that runs irssi proxy is on there ;)
<penguin42> popey: On the welcome screen picture what's the highlighted pip represent?
<SuperMatt> neuro: but if you come off irc you will cease to exist!
<neuro> I DON'T CARE, IT MUST BE DONE!
<penguin42> neuro: Don't you just migrate your vm to somewhere else while you handle it?
<neuro> it's esxi
<penguin42> can't it do that?
<neuro> no vmotion etc
<neuro> yeah, it can, if you pay money
<penguin42> oh
<popey> penguin42: number of tweets or something
<popey> photos, miles run, personal stuff
<popey> penguin42: proportional sized circles
<penguin42> popey: oh hmm
<davmor2> penguin42: the idea is it becomes a graphical representation of you, to welcome you to your phone
<penguin42> with beard?
<davmor2> penguin42: http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/15/touch-based-ubuntu-preview-coming-february-21st/ first phone image
<penguin42> so what are the sizes of the blobs supposed to represent (as opposed to the number) - time since reception?
<davmor2> penguin42: if you had 10 tweet yesterday and 20 today, todays blob would be bigger and yesterdays etc
<davmor2> penguin42: not entirely sure how that will work for talk time
<penguin42> ok, fair enough, so decaying blob size
<penguin42> it would be interesting to see during a heavy conversation or something
<popey> no
<popey> maybe
<penguin42> isn't that supposed to be       yes,no,maybe ?
<popey> so the dots are days of the month
<popey> and yeah, the blobs are proportional to the data that day
<AlanBell> so there is an API for apps to push data to the blobs?
<popey> i guess so â»
<AlanBell> so it could be more interesting humany things, like calories, or units of alcohol
<AlanBell> or books read
<AlanBell> pages of books read, from an e-reader app
<AlanBell> steps from a pedometer app reading the orientation sensors . . .
<ali1234> whats wrong with just having current time and date, last three events, next three appointments?
<ali1234> why does everything have to be an experience these days?
<AlanBell> daily manufacturing productivity figures published from your ERP application
<penguin42> I'm surprised it's just revealing one variable - I'd have let you specify the r/g/b individually and the texture etc so you could see those manufacturing figures together with sales, temperature and stock price
<ali1234> but if you could specify r/g/b then you could make it not use the ubuntu colours
<popey> you can show multiple things
<popey> when you tap it, it redraws
<popey> so you could rotate round a number of stats
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-18
<MooDoo_> hello all
<diplo> Morning
<dwatkins> allo allo
<mungbean> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<Gary> !chickens
<mungbean> firefox kills my pc so badly i've taken to bookmarking all tabs and shutting it down every couple of days
<MooDoo> any advance on chickens?
<SuperMatt> I still can't comprehend why some people keep so many tabs open
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: marinate in a soy sauce, place on grill?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/soy-and-garlic-marinated-chicken/
<SuperMatt> I have tabs for "ongoing" stuff, like facebook, twitter, etc, and then normal browsing gets closed down all the time
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I work the same way
<SuperMatt> morning Alan
<andrewebdev> MooDoo, I use many critical webapps for my work, and I always have those tabs pinned in Chrome
<MartijnVdS> When I'm on a "project" I can get to 20 tabs or so.. but then I start closing them
<popey> I have a chromium user for each "personality" I have â»
<popey> home, work, uupc, and various odd twitter accounts
<popey> I only have home open in the evening, with the work one open all day
<SuperMatt> I still can't decide which browser to use
<SuperMatt> which one is winning in the firefox/chromium debate right now?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yes.
<MooDoo> chrome will do me, although I heard chromium is going to be default in the next ubuntu release?
<popey> with home and work only open I have  77 tabs open
<andrewebdev> Personal preferance wins that debate :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> sure, btu I'm talking about which one is going to be bundled by default with 13.10
<andrewebdev> ha
<andrewebdev> ah*
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: chromium isn't it
<MooDoo> ?
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<popey> a discussion was started on that
<SuperMatt> but it hasn't been finished?
<popey> i dunno if the switch has been made
<MooDoo> do what MS did, don't install any browser, let the user install the one they want to use :D
<popey> given chromium is still in universe, unlikely
<mungbean> SuperMatt: researching a topic
<mungbean> lots of resources and wiki pages
<mungbean> all important to keep open
<mungbean> until finished the work
<brobostigon> also, chromium in my experience has always not really been kept upto date and recent, which is anther issue.
<mungbean> about:memory hangs when i run it on firefox :(
<mungbean> every couple of releases they say...new release is awesome and fixes all memory issues!
<mungbean> faster than chrome!
<mungbean> hmm...must be a memory leak somewhere...closed most apps and running 2.8GB used
<popey> the performance is secondary, it's the multi-profile stuff in chromium i like
<popey> which firefox doesn't seem to have
<brobostigon> yes, an influence from chromium os.
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Nelson Mandela Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<JamesTait> How's life?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: tired frustrated hay fever blah blah blah....things are great :D
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<mungbean> i usually get chronic hayfever but not this year \o/
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<SuperMatt> on the browser wars, I love Firefox's ethos, I like chrom*'s new webapps thingy, don't like that chromium takes a little while to get updates, and don't like chrome's extreme ties to google
<JamesTait> MooDoo, I don't suffer from hay fever, but can relate to the other two. ;)
<brobostigon> my hey fever is pretty bad, my nose is sore and feels like a fountain.
<SuperMatt> Maybe the answer is in using chromium for webapps and firefox for browsing
<MooDoo> JamesTait: :)
<mungbean> if you use the ctrl-K to search in firefox, are you sending most of your data to google anyway?
<SuperMatt> I was seriously considering last night switching my searches over to yahoo
<mungbean> i'd rather DDG than yahooters
 * SuperMatt nods
<brobostigon> 1info chromium-browser unstable
<brobostigon> !info chromium-browser unstable
<lubotu3> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium browser - transitional dummy package. In component main, is optional. Version 28.0.1500.71-2 (unstable), package size 157 kB, installed size 1684 kB
<mungbean> got stuck on 18 for years
<brobostigon> not too ancient.
<popey> it was for a while brobostigon
<brobostigon> popey: definatly. yes.
<mungbean> i can't think of anything i search for that wouldn't want to show others
<mungbean> but it can be used for profiling
<brobostigon> !info chromium-browser experimental
<lubotu3> 'experimental' is not a valid distribution: extras, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, medibuntu, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, quantal, quantal-backports, quantal-proposed, raring, raring-backports, raring-proposed, saucy, saucy-backports, saucy-proposed, stable, testing, unstable
<Laney> dear god
<Laney> I think this fan might be too big for the small room I'm putting it in
<popey> the new chair?
<Laney> the blades are the same size as my head
<brobostigon> wow.
<MooDoo> Laney: make sure you duck then ;)
<Laney> not individually - the whole thing :P
<popey> oh, fan
<Laney> the chair fit in quite nicely
<directhex> i'm cold :(
<SuperMatt> hmmm
<SuperMatt> ddg is much better than I seem to remember
<MooDoo> directhex: what?
 * popey goes to get a fan
<directhex> MooDoo, 2 hours of aircon ponted at my back
<MooDoo> directhex: ah!
<MooDoo> directhex: /me sites under the air con, it's nice :D
<Laney> oh yeahhhhh
<Laney> this beast is pretty powerful
<popey> i just got a face full of dust from mine
<Laney> need to move it further away
<Laney> '1' next to my shoulder is a bit much
<popey> mine is 3, 3 feet away, rotating. might switch off rotate and just have it blast me in the face constantly
<czajkowski> Laney: pic?
 * Laney stabs U1
<Laney> had to manually rotate it
<Laney> czajkowski: http://ubuntuone.com/04P1ZR9uIssRvpd1KWT7Tn
<Laney> not that a picture of a fan is very interesting ...
<mungbean> do u1 provide support if you are customer of the free solution?
<DJones> There is the #ubuntuone channel that will probably give some support to some issues
<mungbean> i raised an email ticket about an issue
<mungbean> few weeks ago
<diplo> Hi guys, got a reseller account with a web host, trying to scp some files from one user to another on the same box but cgetting ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host so I guess they have a sshd setting to disallow it, any other thoughts on copying a dir of images from one user to another to save me downloading/uploading a few hundred meg of images
<MooDoo> diplo: who's the host?
<diplo> Compila.com
<MooDoo> diplo: ah ok
<diplo> Fairly shite, could probably ask them to do something but by the time they look at my ticket I could do it myself, tried su but thats denied as well. Think I'm out of options :)
 * diplo can't wait till I order my dedicated server and run it myself!
<czajkowski> if folks are running saucy and a a dropbox fan you may run into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1193522  just a heads up
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1193522 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_action_get_name()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> you will need to use it via the web
 * AlanBell has run into that
<AlanBell> one reason to ditch the dropbox and switch to sparkleshare
<czajkowski> well I use U1 for everything tbh
<czajkowski> but I do need dropbox for work so I'll just use the web
<AlanBell> I had huge problems with U1 file sync, never worked properly for me
<diplo> AlanBell: Do you store many binary files in sparkleshare ?
<AlanBell> it is just nautilus that crashes with dropbox at the moment, you can open stuff from libreoffice file-open dialog or whatever
<AlanBell> diplo: sure, 6.3G of stuff apparently
<diplo> I read ages ago the downside for sparkleshare because it uses git was the replication takes a lot more space because of the binary data ?
<AlanBell> actually that is over counting it, probably 3G or so for stuff
<dwatkins> you know you've been away from the command line for too long when instead of typing 'apt-get' you type 'rpm'...
<AlanBell> the .git directory is 2.8G
<DJones> Heh, Either the Huaweu Ascen Y210 is a pretty poor phone, or the Talk Talk network must be pretty poor for them to be giving the phones away for free on a 2 year contract costing only Â£1.25/month for the 1st 6mths and even then it only goes up to Â£5/mth and thats with 100 minutes, 250 texts and 100Mb of data
<AlanBell> so yes, there is more metadata, but I have a local full history tree, and I don't really care about space that much
<AlanBell> DJones: the Huawei Y300 is a rather good phone, dunno about the Y210
<MartijnVdS> And, instead of the NSA listening in, you get the Chinese version!
<diplo> I may give it a try again ta
<DJones> Android 2.3......
<DJones> That may explain it
<popey> crusty
<AlanBell> it will work fine for a lot of people
<DJones> I guess for somebody looking for a basic phone it would be ideal though
<DJones> I was tempted to have a closer look at it for my wife, she hates her current phone
<Gary> it'd work well for a phone for kids I think
<DJones> Nah, its only 100 minutes & 250 texts, that'd be used inside the first day
<mungbean> i use about 3 minutes per month
<mungbean> and 10 texts
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> the difference between android 2.3 and later versions is not that great
<popey> i installed an app on my android phone to keep track of usage
<popey> it's rather good
<mungbean> my giffgaff network automatically does that
<Gary> ah, yeah it's a contract.  I've got my fosterkid a payg sim from giffgaff and pay a set tenner a month for a goodybag, if he goes over he loses the ability to call till the next cycle
<davmor2> popey: watchdog?
<popey> Onavo
<AlanBell> depending on the kids in question the contract would be fine, but bigger screen is good for games
<DJones> IT'd be perfect my parents, they each have a mobile phone, 95% of the time they leave it in a drawer at home, the 5% of the time they take it with them, they only switch it on when they want to send a text/make a call and then turn it off again
<mungbean> gary, i'm on the 7.50 giffgaff, pretty good
<popey> as you install/upgrade apps it lets you know if they're known "data hogs"
<popey> and keeps track of your data usage, you can block apps
<popey> it's rather natty
<AlanBell> we switched from giffgaff to a Â£7.50/month contract and free Y300
<Gary> mungbean: yeah, I might move to that myself, but Dan would probably want more, so for an extra two pound fifty it makes more sense to do the tenner
<popey> how much data do you get with the giffgaff 7.50?
<Gary> http://giffgaff.com/goodybags  250mb popey
<popey> blimey
<DJones> In normal usage, the only data hog I find are app updates so I'#ve set that to only update on wifi, unless I'm driving somewhere I'm normally connected to a wifi network
<popey> the 12 quid one is good!
<mungbean> yes, although i'm on wifi most of the day
<mungbean> so 250mb suits me
<mungbean> monthly recurring meeans i could always get a 12 quid one for holiday
<diplo> I'm surprised at how much data I use as I'm on wifi all day as well
<AlanBell> http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/buy/HUAWEI_Y300_KM072_FCON is the deal my daughter has
<mungbean> let me know if you want a GG sim and i'll give you my referral link :P
<diplo> but stayed on the Â£10 package for now, but may upgrade to the Â£12 for the tethering option
<Gary> no, use my link!
<popey> according to Ovano I am on day 18 of 31 and used 60.1MB of 250MB
<diplo> NO, use my link!
<diplo> :D
 * popey ordered a sim
<mungbean> noooo
<Gary> noooo
 * brobostigon has three's no fup unlimited data, woop :)
<mungbean> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/oimon
<Gary> popey: if you use someones link, they get 500 points and you get a free fiver of credit!
<mungbean> use that and you get Â£5 credit too
<popey> too late â»
<mungbean> order another
 * diplo is sure popey was the one who got me on GiffGaff in the first place
<mungbean> freeee credit....freeee credit
<popey> diplo: i have had one in the past, when it first started
<DJones> popey: I just use battery indicator for the same thing, according to that, I'm on day 8 and have used 39.4Mb of 500Mb
<mungbean> gonna be sad when my phone eventually dies as buying new phones outright is Â£Â£Â£
<popey> going to phone orange now and tell them I'm going to giffgaff
<popey> see what they say
<diplo> hmm only used 70mb in the last 2 weeks, normally double/triple that
<Gary> bye, probably
<popey> yeah
<popey> been with them since 1995
<mungbean> thats what tmob said
<DJones> Actually, its not battery indicator, its 3G watchdog
<popey> how about roaming?
<Gary> that'd probably cost a lot
<popey> "If you're thinking of leaving orange, press 2"
<Gary> http://giffgaff.com/index/international  24p a min
<Gary> data roaming 45p min
<diplo> OK next question for the day, I've written a python script in the past using fabric to check remote hosts svn info, a colleague would like that done on the intranet. Anyone succesfully used ssh2 php module or any other suggestions ?
<popey> haha, sales patter
<AlanBell> I am thinking of getting a french data sim and just doing voip instead of roaming
<AlanBell> if I want to talk to anyone, which I probably don't
<brobostigon> woop, i just looked at the rpi thats acting as a wifi AP here, and 103days uptime, yay.
<Gary> popey: I *tried* not to sound like a sales droid, or is that comment in reference to orange?
<popey> yes
<popey> she's trying to change tarrif
<popey> gave me the "giffgaff doesn't have their own network" patter
<Gary> if they match it, it'll be tied in for 18/24 months
<Gary> it's a molp or whatever on o2
<Gary> (so if you get crap o2 signal, it's a bad idea to go giffgaff)
<popey> so, she said they flat out cant compete with giffgaff, then tried to disparage them
<popey> "if it goes down you cant phone anyone"
<mungbean> LOL
<popey> to which i said "if orange goes down I never phone anyone"
<mungbean> "are you saying you're better than o2"
<popey> she said they can give me up to 1.5GB/mo for ~21 quid
<mungbean> failzors
<mungbean> tmob didn't even try with my missis
<mungbean> they said, fair do's
<mungbean> wont even try to offer u
<popey> i think it depends how you approach it
<Gary> I don't use more than 60mb a month as is (over the cell network)
<mungbean> everything about GG is better IMO
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the day that data caps go away
 * AlanBell just ordered a french SIM card
<mungbean> their website means i don't have to call people
<Gary> I've had over 70 quid back from giffgaff via "helping" people on the forums
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. yay 50mbit 4G. But not even a full minute of full use before you hit the cap
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Le card de MIS?
<mungbean> Gary: how much do you get paid for each "help"?
<Gary> most of that was chatting crap in the social channel!
<AlanBell> one of these http://www.lefrenchmobile.com/en/order-sim-card-for-france.html
<Gary> mungbean: no idea, but one month I assisted helpfully twice and made 30 quid!
<mungbean> wow
<diplo> I can answer a lot of Q's on giffgaff but I never sign in :P
<mungbean> surely there must be people all over that
<Gary> no idea how they worked that out!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do you know this? http://prepaidwithdata.wikia.com/wiki/Prepaid_SIM_with_data
<diplo> and tbh, I found all my stuff via google
<Gary> there is a guy on the forums who used to (before he left uni or something) make a very decent living off giffgaff, in the order of thousands of quid a cycle (as it's paid out in a weird cycle, not monthly)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, it is one of the providers on there
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: apparently LeFrenchMobile also has Belgian SIMs.. hmmm
<diplo> Blimey Gary, maybe I should make more of an effort :D
<MartijnVdS> Interesting
<AlanBell> I will get a 500MB data bundle and see how it goes
<Gary> diplo: the forums can however be a bit overwhelming, too many people trying to answer each question can happen
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I used less than that in a week in the UK
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: and I was using google nav *all* the time
<popey> AlanBell: why a french sim?
<AlanBell> basically I use data more than calls, but I should be able to use sipdroid to have my phone as an extension on our PBX
<popey> wont that be roaming over here?
<AlanBell> I won't be using it here :)
<popey> ah
<AlanBell> I will be in france for a week
<AlanBell> my theory is that voip over 3g is better than roaming on your own SIM
<AlanBell> popey: is there a SIP or IAX client for the Ubuntu Phone yet/in the works?
<popey> not that I am aware of
<TheOpenSourcerer> sflphone compiles on arm I believe. According to some discussions on their mailling list recently. Someone trying to use it on a RPi.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do you have one of those wifi/mifi things to put it in?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or are you sticking it in your phone?
<AlanBell> I will put it in the phone
 * MartijnVdS has a Huawei E586
<davmor2> AlanBell: there is a kde telepathy client so there is a possiblity of using sofia-sip as telepathy is on the phone and then maybe through together a qt client based on the kde one maybe?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: It should be integrated, so you can choose to use SIP or "mobile network" for a call
<AlanBell> I still think a good niche would be to use SIP as the primary dialer
<mungbean> i work in an office with good wifi and poor mobile
<mungbean> a lot of london does too
<MartijnVdS> same for me, though wifi is flaky
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I will put it in one of the phones (probably mine) and then share it over wifi to all the other three phones, tablet and laptop that we will have
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "don't wander off, or you'll lose the call" :)
<AlanBell> mungbean: yeah, it would mean that the phone would integrate with your PBX as a proper extension, and there would be no roaming, just get a local data SIM
<MartijnVdS> in the Netherlands, there's a net neutrality law, so providers can't even throttle or block SIP traffic anymore
<MartijnVdS> (they used to charge more for SIP-capable plans)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> afternoon, bigcalm
<bigcalm> Anybody fancy helping me route specific traffic via a VPN?
<bigcalm> I'm confused
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: sure, what do you want to do?
<bigcalm> I have a VPN set up between a Rackspace firewall and an ADSL router
<MartijnVdS> what kind of VPN
<bigcalm> IPsec
<MartijnVdS> *shudder8
<bigcalm> :Z
<bigcalm> Well, the ADSL router says that the VPN is working. But I don't know how to route traffic though it
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is it tunnel-mode (each end has an extra IP) or transport mode?
<bigcalm> Well, the ADSL end has an extra IP of 192.168.5.1, but I don't think that there is an extra IP address on the server
<bigcalm> I will stop starting my sentences with 'Well'. It's making me sound like davmor2
<Dave2> So, what will you replace it with?
<bigcalm> :D
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in that case.. I don't know :( Not much experience with ipsec
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I tend to use OpenVPN
 * popey stabs Dave2 
<popey> he knew it was coming
<popey> stoppit Dave2
<Dave2> stoppit and tidyup?
<davmor2> bigcalm:  actually it (deep breath in) Well..............  have a slap for your inaccuracy :P
<Dave2> bigcalm: I assume you've got to set up routing rules on your router
<MartijnVdS> Vell..
<Dave2> if it were a simple Linux box with a dedicated box it'd mainly be a case of "ip r add to <ip> dev <device> via <gateway IP>"
<bigcalm> davmor2: aww, sorry :P
<Dave2> or some variation on that that works, that may be slightly off
<Dave2> er, with a dedicated device for the VPN is what I meant to say
<bigcalm> I see
<neuro> happy afternoon all
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: now sounds like the Herr Flick of the Gestapo from Allo, Allo
<Gary> davmor2: \o/
<Gary> or should that be \o
 * Gary hides
<MartijnVdS> neuro: merry midday to you to!
<neuro> merry merry merry!
 * brobostigon does a minetest compile again, for curiosity, how things have evolved.
<diplo> bigcalm: In my router ( Draytek ) we connect lan to lan over ipsec vpn, we just put the route we are connecting to in the configuration
<diplo> And then add routes to hosts after
<bigcalm> diplo: this is a DrayTek Vigor2710 \o/
<bigcalm> Can you explain what you mean by putting in the route?
<neuro> it puts the route in the basket
<neuro> or it gets the hose again
<bigcalm> Heh
<diplo> http://kb.cyberoam.com/default.asp?id=1227
<diplo> Like that
<diplo> Remote network internal IP is the bit you probably require
<bigcalm> diplo: thank you :)
<bigcalm> diplo: that page explains how to set up the VPN. We already have that working. I need to know how to route via the VPN
<diplo> So you have the internal IP at the end of the settings?
<diplo> TCP/IP Network settings, remote mask remote ip etc
<diplo> All I do after that is add the route back to my machine at the other end unless it's using the same gateway that the vpn goes out on
<diplo> We have 4 lines, some servers use different lines, so on each box I'll do route add -network 10.10.2.1/24 gw <gwip>
<diplo> That's it, works
<bigcalm> That's the last bit I didn't know about, thank you :)
<MartijnVdS> once you get it working, please blog about it :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: the link that diplo pasted works to get the VPN working between sites. I'll try and blog about the extra bits for routing...
<diplo> Ah, Dave2 mentioned that above bigcalm, so guessed you had tried that
<diplo> Draytek site has loads of info about it, very helpful
<bigcalm> I have little networking knowledge, so it's difficult to know what the correct search terms are
<bigcalm> Asking on IRC is working so far though :)
<diplo> site:draytek.co.uk ipsec vpn lan to lan I think I probably search googly for
<diplo> I found their site not that great to find stuff on
<diplo> But it *does* have a wealth of info if you can find it.
<mungbean> trying to compile for my massively expensive coprocessor
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Nvidia gpu?
<mungbean> intel phi
<mungbean> about Â£5k worth in each server
<mungbean> thats a lot of bitcoins
<Dave2> diplo: needs moar iprout2
<bigcalm> Looks like it might be a static route that I want to configure
<Dave2> iproute2
<Dave2> (which I mainly use because I have fancy routing tables and stuff.)
<Dave2> (and because the non-iproute2 way of doing things is deprecated)
<diplo> bigcalm: What OS ?
<bigcalm> diplo: linux. But also on little black box called an X4
<diplo> meant distro really, as different ways of adding static routes on different distros
<diplo> so CentOS it's route-eth<#>
<diplo> in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ I think from memory
<diplo> Not sure if I've ever had to add a static route on ubuntu yet :)
<bigcalm> On the server end it's an ubuntu install. On the ADSL end, it's Debian
<bigcalm> On the X4, it's whatever iDigi make
<diplo> If the servers are using the same gateways as the vpn you shouldn't need to add the routes though
<bigcalm> Okay
<bigcalm> "...each box I'll do route add -network 10.10.2.1/24 gw <gwip>"
 * Dave2 winces at non-iproute2 again :(
<bigcalm> gwip being the IP address provided by the VPN?
<MartijnVdS> ip route add!
<MartijnVdS> not "route add"
<bigcalm> Or the LAN IP of the router? 192.168.1.1 I think
<bigcalm> Oh balls. I don't have root on the debian machine. Don't think I can add routes
<bigcalm> Networking is doing my head in :(
<Dave2> If you don't have root you're probably not going to get very far
<bigcalm> Oh, I have SSH access to the X4 device. And I can set static routes via its web interface
<bigcalm> Hopefully I can do my testing from there
<bigcalm> Oh, it's a weird shell
<bigcalm> Very limited
 * bigcalm sends a request to boss to have root access to his home server
<bigcalm> When adding a static route, what is Metric for?
<diplo> never used it myself but from a quick look it looks like priority of traffic
<diplo> The simplest example of a metric is the weight value. Many different routers can use static routes and static routes can be assigned a weight. Higher weight means higher cost. This allows the administrator to create several routes to a destination and then set them up so that one will be preferred over the others
<diplo> Probably more needed in high availability / bandwith heavy stuff I guess
<dogmatic69> found a small bug 1202662
<lubotu3> bug 1202662 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "--remove option text is wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202662
<brobostigon> !info minetest
<lubotu3> minetest (source: minetest): InfiniMiner/Minecraft-inspired open game world. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.3.1+dfsg-4 (quantal), package size 797 kB, installed size 1959 kB
<brobostigon> !info minetest unstable
<lubotu3> minetest (source: minetest): Multiplayer infinite-world block sandbox. In component main, is extra. Version 0.4.7+repack-2 (unstable), package size 1752 kB, installed size 4036 kB
<dogmatic69> anyone know how I can get this working? http://bin.cakedc.com/view/802584391
<dogmatic69> there are some redirects and it complains about the certificate
<dogmatic69> I tried the '--no-check-certificate' option but it just complains then: 'E: Command line option --no-check-certificate is not understood'
<diplo> dogmatic69: cakedc requires login
<dogmatic69> diplo: wrong pate bin, one sec
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1504967342
<diplo> Don't work with Cake, but can take a look.. think bigcalm works with Symphony that maybe closer
<dogmatic69> its nothing to do with cake
<dogmatic69> just using the bin :D
<diplo> Ah, just saw the url :D
<dogmatic69> trying to install java7
<bigcalm> diplo: I have to manage 2 CakePHP 1.1 apps and several Symfony 1-2 apps. But I'd rather keep away from CakePHP ;)
<diplo> :P
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: well 1.1 was about 25 years ago :P
<dogmatic69> I would not touch it tbh
<dogmatic69> 2.4 is cool though
<MartijnVdS> â« it was 20 years ago today?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: budget and time...
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> I cant find anything on google for this problem, nothing about the option to ignore either
<diplo> Take it you're trying to use this guys ppa to install ?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> ppa:webupd8team/java
<diplo> JJust wget'd that file without any options.
<diplo> Worth looking at what the script is parsing I guess
<dogmatic69> Why does the provided workaround not work?
<dogmatic69> surely that is a bug?
<bigcalm> My goodness I get though a lot of chewing gum. I wonder if it's healthy...
<diplo> Looks like it grabs a preinst script dogmatic69, not putting it on this machine so haven't looked yet
<diplo> Can you open edit what it installed and change it ?
<dogmatic69> If you could give me the details
<diplo> Or just grab manually from oracle.com and just run update-alternatives ( Close to that command )
<diplo> Just looking at your add-apt it's looking for oneric, but you're using precise ?
<dogmatic69> diplo: I downloaded the tar.gz file its complaining about...
<dogmatic69> not sure what to do really
<diplo> A note (hopefully temporary) about the Eugene San PPA for those who are attempting to use it and are having issues: As of the time of this entry, the eugenesan/java PPA is broken. If you have attempted to use it, you may do the following to remove it and use webupd8.org's PPA method (above) instead
<diplo> From here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java
<diplo> Tells you how to install on that page manually
<dogmatic69> diplo: when I try purge it does the same redirect error :/
<dogmatic69> will just use the rm method listed there...
<dogmatic69> ah, now working again :)
<christel> /13
<christel> er
<MartijnVdS> \o christel
<christel> hello loveliness <3
<bigcalm> Hey christel :)
<brobostigon> yay, minetest server updated and running, woop.
<bigcalm> Minecraft?
<brobostigon> no.
<bigcalm> Aww
<brobostigon> for starters, it is c++ insted of java. and it is OSS, unlike minecraft.
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> and not as good â»
<brobostigon> works pretty well here.
<popey> it may well work well. it's still not as good
<bigcalm> :D
<davmor2> christel: hello long time no see :)
<brobostigon> ohwll, i am happy with it, and it is there if anyone wants to try it,
<davmor2> popey: I still don't believe you don't have a minecraft app for the phone I'd of thought a core app if ever there was one ;)
<shauno> last I looked mc-mobile was terribad :/
<brobostigon> also minecraft pe, can only conenct to its own server, or local network servers, thats it.
<brobostigon> pretty bad.
<shauno> that's quite a leap from last I tried it, actually.  there was no multiplayer at all
<popey> yeah, my kids play together cross multiple devices
<davmor2> brobostigon: however fairly secure for novice users who don't want to be on the pervert/stalker server ;)
<brobostigon> davmor2: or any normal outside minecraft server at all.
<popey> well, to be fair development on Minecraft PE started about 3 years after Minecraft
<popey> so it's a bit behind in a number of ways
<popey> but catching up
<brobostigon> ok, fair enough.
<davmor2> man it's getting a bit chilly in here since I got the aircon unit out of the cupboard and turned it on  ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<bigcalm> Goit
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can buy a unit too you know :P
<bigcalm> I have an evaporating air con that makes everything damp to the touch. It's humid enough in here
<nimesh> does anyone know of a good screen and voice recorder for low end laptops with low cpu usage
<davmor2> bigcalm: I have aircon/dehumidifer/fan only
<popey> i have one of those wheel-about air con things with the hose you put out the window
<popey> but it's out in the garage, and it's hot out there
<popey> so can't be bothered to get it
<davmor2> popey: that's what I have I couldn't cope with the heat and humidity levels today
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm: took the wife to the hospital to see her Mom it was 42 in the car I was dripping wet by the time I got back to the flat
<popey> yowzer
<davmor2> best of it is it's such a short journey that the aircon had only just started to lower the temperature sensibly by the time I got out of the car :(
<bigcalm> Eugh
<nimesh> does anyone know of a good screen and voice recorder for low end laptops with low cpu usage
<bigcalm> I start feeling good and cold air coming from the vents after about 7 mins I think
<bigcalm> nimesh: employ a street urchin to read the screen for you?
<Dave2> I like being able to go "ha ha" at people who work from home
 * Dave2 sits in air conditioned office.
<nimesh> is there anyone here reasonable to as a question
 * Dave2 will cycle to air conditioned gym
<nimesh> is there anyone here reasonable to as a answer
<nimesh> on linux ubuntu
<davmor2> bigcalm: it was blowing cold air it just took the 15 minutes to get it from 42 to 36
<davmor2> nimesh: people will answer if they can
<bigcalm> I hope I don't melt at badminton tonight
<bigcalm> Looking forward to the guys laughing at my racket
<davmor2> nimesh: the 2 main ones are recordmtdesktop and kazaam what they are like mem and cpu usage wise I have no idea.
<nimesh> ok thanz for that
<mungbean> if i enlarge a 1 page PDF by 60% and print, i only get the first page, rather than 4 pages which i could selloptape toghether - any ideas?
<mungbean> the first page gets enalrged but obviously cropped
<nimesh_> hi
<nimesh_> i need urgent help after installed ubuntu my laptop fan has stopped
<nimesh_> i need urgent help after installed ubuntu my laptop fan has stopped
<AlanBell> nimesh_: normally that  all just works, but you could try sudo pwmconfig
<AlanBell> which is a big heap of questions that builds a profile and sets up power management relating to sensors
<AlanBell> http://tuxtweaks.com/2008/08/how-to-control-fan-speeds-in-ubuntu/
<AlanBell> but normally that is for slowing down constantly on noisy fans
<czajkowski> popey: you haz mail :)
 * davmor2 intercepts czajkowski mail deletes all the important words and just leaves the "the, and,a's" in
<czajkowski> bah
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello how's you?
<czajkowski> not bad now sunshine :)
<czajkowski> hows you my pretty davmor2
 * davmor2 pictures that end of that line being "and your little dog tooo"
<davmor2> czajkowski: nice an cool I turned the aircon on
<czajkowski> office here at home is in the shade all day :)
<czajkowski> have windows open and nice breee
<czajkowski> *breeze
<nimesh_> sudo pwmconfig does not work
 * neuro does the unhappy dance
<neuro> looks like my airport extreme has died on its arse :(
<neuro> time for a wee trip to the apple store :(
<shauno> nice excuse to upgrace to ac.  shame the new ones look stupid though
<neuro> yeah, they look like someone's sellotaped half a dozen apple TVs together and painted it white
<neuro> "APPEL TV TOWERZ LOL ZOMG"
<neuro> i really wish the new airport express had GigE though
<bigcalm> I see this a lot when failing to type correctly. Is there a way to reset a counter or something? Received disconnect from #.#.#.#: 2: Too many authentication failures for iain
<shauno> yeah, that's quite silly.  I can't believe they're selling brand new APs that are slower than my internet
<neuro> i can't believe they're selling brand new APs where the wired speed is slower than the wireless speed
<neuro> my current extreme is nearly 4.5 yrs old
<neuro> i guess it was due
 * Laney waits for offlineimap to die syncing 3159 deletions
<MartijnVdS> yay
 * MartijnVdS has a proper VLAN trunk running through his house 8-)
<neuro> oh dear, ubuntu.com is being all cryptic again
<MartijnVdS> popey: will know what it's about
<popey> hehe
 * bigcalm looks and ponders
<Laney> looks like a train track to me
<bigcalm> Ubuntu trains?
<Laney> on the railroad to success
<popey> Choo choo!
<ahayzen> popey, bug 1202730 certainly looks interesting lol ;)
<lubotu3> bug 1202730 in Ubuntu Music App "Music plays too fast on device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202730
<davmor2> I love that popey thinks he is a train from time to time :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: at least he's not an airplane
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: haha
<MartijnVdS> Deciding to blog tech stuff was a good idea. It forces me to think about my projects in a more structured way
<MartijnVdS> (home/hobby projects)
<penguin42> anything fun?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: well I did the WPA-Enterprise post last week
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: currently writing about a "tap" OpenVPN bridged with a vlan on each side, so I can pretend it's one big ethernet :)
<MartijnVdS> except in better words and proper sentences ;)
<penguin42> nod
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-19
<ali1234> is u1db the old thing that got scrapped or the new thing that replaces it?
<MattJ> Why am I awake?
<penguin42> temperature
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> aloha
<MooDoo> dwatkins: oi you know that's czajkowski's saying :) lol
<dwatkins> it is?
<dwatkins> I just tend to pick a random greeting each day.
<MartijnVdS> g'morning!
<dwatkins> goedendag
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goedendag ?
<MooDoo> so how is everyone at the moment? glad it's friday?
<dwatkins> very glad indeed, it's been a crazy week here in Edinburgh
<MooDoo> is canonical still doing ubuntu certification with the lpi?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: haha, I meant "good day" in Dutch, of course ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's what it usually means ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: VERY glad it's friday
<dwatkins> "Good morning, or a scary looking mace thing, depending on the context"
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: You only have to worry if you have a French accent, according to apocryphal sources ;)
<dwatkins> I always thought "apocryphal" meant "contested".
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "of dubious authenticity"
<dwatkins> ah ok, not far off
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (there's only one source for the "French-stabbing" origins of the Goedendag name)
<dwatkins> That's ok then, it probably didn't maim too many people...
 * TheOpenSourcerer starts writing a draft review of some beer...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yay! :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: positive or negative?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Only tried the Broeders so far - but that was lovely ;-)
<dwatkins> "draft" ... badum tschhhh.....
<MooDoo> doooooo
<MooDoo> dwatkins: careful, you'll get TheOpenSourcerer HOP-ing mad on that one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - it'll not get published for a while... Need to try the Dark Roast yet and get AlanBell's input too.
<dwatkins> I think there's a grain of truth to that, MooDoo...
 * AlanBell input one of the light beers
<MooDoo> dwatkins: thanfully the jokes are mild
<AlanBell> was rather yummy
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Friday-level jokes
<dwatkins> Just so long as the review isn't gassy.
<MooDoo> just keep it all low gravity
<AlanBell> someone got an iPhone handy?
<AlanBell> want to test something
<dwatkins> yeah AlanBell - 4S
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> wotcher brobostigon
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<popey> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<x98> hi there i was told here to upgrage to 12.04.1 lts to fix my cpu fan error but it hasn't worked
<x98> my laptop now has overheated
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday, and happy Soyuz 14 Landing Day! :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shame: http://www.h-online.com/features/The-Final-H-Roundup-1919816.html
<JamesTait> The H is going away?
<JamesTait> Didn't fabsh work for them?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/The-H-is-closing-down-1920027.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> yep
<JamesTait> fabsh killed The H? :-P
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2013/07/bier-vandestreek/
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Wow, thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Sent it to my brothers
<TheOpenSourcerer> They've already picked it up on twitter
<diplo> Will point my dad at it as well ,he likes strong beers and trying new stuff
<diplo> Guys, web dev stuff I know is OT but :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Their shop doesn't work for me - so I don;t think you can actually buy it yet...
<MartijnVdS> you can send them an email to order if you really want it
<MartijnVdS> or use the Dutch-language shop
<diplo> I'm trying to clean up some CSS which has acrued over the years, basically want a way of checking through a CSS file and see if all elements are used in the code
<diplo> kk, I may order it as a treat. Cheers
<SuperMatt> awww man, sads to see the H going :(
<SuperMatt> in chromium, is there a sync alternative that doesn't use google?
<MooDoo> just rebuilt my vps to ubuntu lts, yay vps o/ lol
<SuperMatt> my vps is 13.04
<brobostigon> debian testing here.
<MooDoo> don't need to upgrade to the latest version, LTS is fine :D
<MooDoo> same on my laptop LTS is fine for the moment :d
<SuperMatt> my vps is 13.04, but my laptop, desktop and *work* pcs are 13.10
<SuperMatt> I like to be on the edge
<MooDoo> heh
<MooDoo> well seeing as my vps just runs a minecraft server and irssi, i don't need anything else :d
<SuperMatt> oh, mine runs my website, email, etc
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yeah I could do that, but I just use works systems and google for mail :D
<SuperMatt> but I like to run the latest stable releases of stuff
<SuperMatt> I'm slowly phasing google out of my life
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: how come?
<brobostigon> tt-rss :)
<SuperMatt> just... because
<SuperMatt> yup, I run tt-rss
<MooDoo> crappy excuse but i'll not pry ;)
<SuperMatt> there's no real reason for it, but I mostly got fed up with relying on others for my stuff
<brobostigon> i run owncloud also, so stores contacts, calendar etc.
<popey> SuperMatt: wise
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I know how you feel on that one :d
<SuperMatt> of course, I do have to rely heavily on a single company to provide my vps
<SuperMatt> but that's unavoidable
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: get a server at home :D
<SuperMatt> heh
<SuperMatt> naw
<SuperMatt> I'm happy with the company I'm with because my friend works for them
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ah! :)
<popey> hah, i used to run popey.com from a compaq proliant at home
<diplo> never had issues with ports popey  ?
<popey> nope
<popey> but that was years ago
<SuperMatt> I'm paying Â£30 a month for 40gigs of disk and 1gig of ram
<SuperMatt> and it's pretty swift
<MooDoo> just got 2gb 50gb 1 core, that'll do for me.
<SuperMatt> well, you need all that ram for minecraft ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<JamesTait> http://www.bigv.io/prices ftw.
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: About Â£40 >> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4
<MooDoo> you use them TheOpenSourcerer ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> We use Hetzner yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have 4 servers there at the moment.
<SuperMatt> how... how are they making any money off that?
<TheOpenSourcerer> They've just introduced some new ones... http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-ex/
<SuperMatt> what's the catch?
<TheOpenSourcerer> None we have found.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are root servers, i.e. h/w so we look after everything on top.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They keep the metal working and the network working.
<SuperMatt> sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been using them for a couple of years now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> A couple of minor network outages in that time but nothing serious.
<SuperMatt> but surely the cost of procurement, networking equiptment, electricity and connectivity cost more than that?
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Ordering mine next month for work
<MooDoo> i've heard so many people talking about them, can't be that bad then
<diplo> SuperMatt: I do wonder the same, but I guess that's their problem :)
<diplo> If it's good enough for TheOpenSourcerer, I guess it's worth a try, our current reseller causes me headaches
<diplo> Only thing I'm not looking forward to is looking after it, got quite a workload atm
<SuperMatt> poor thing
<diplo> My only issue is that I need a web hosting panel for other staff
<diplo> Trying a few out atm
<SuperMatt> at the moment, I'm just messing around with name servers
<TheOpenSourcerer> They've just upped the bandwidth limits too - from 5TB / mnth to 20 TB
<MooDoo> diplo: cpanel is the easiest i've foind.
<MooDoo> found
 * TheOpenSourcerer hates all of them
<diplo> Yeah, but to buy a license it's quite expensive
<TheOpenSourcerer> Plesk is evil.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cpanel is just crap.
<diplo> I'd rather not TheOpenSourcerer, but staff aren't that great
<MooDoo> i hate plesk
<popey> hmm, i quite like the idea of having my own server
<MooDoo> it's not crap it does what it's supposed to and seems quite handy
<MooDoo> not that I have a cp on this box
<AlanBell> it doesn't provide adequate separation between customers
<MooDoo> popey: me too, i just got this vps via work.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: We have a customer for whom we look after some VMs. They run CPanel.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is crap.
<MooDoo> in your oppinion :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> In my *experience*
<MooDoo> then again i'm only seeing it from a 1 customer / 1 cpanel point of view.
<diplo> Looking at trying http://ajenti.org
<diplo> Tried ISPConfig3 and Webmin/VirtualMin
<MooDoo> then again why use a cp if you know what you're doing via command line.
<diplo> I do MooDoo, other 17 staff don;t, they're worried if I or my colleague leave they may be a little screwed
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> then you need to train them :D :p
<diplo> They do stuff just to get it working, don't document *anything*
<diplo> I've documented more in the last 3 years than all of them have in 17 years :/
<MooDoo> diplo: that's rubbish
<MooDoo> and their own fault if anything goes wrong.
<AlanBell> it isn't that it is a GUI that is a problem, that is fine
<diplo> It is, it sucks.. but they are all using my documentation now
<diplo> AlanBell: More that it does things non standard ?
<MooDoo> quit and see what happend ;)
<brobostigon> most of my documentation of my vps's are either in my head, or on several dozen post-it notes. not good.
<diplo> That was m,y problem with a lot of them
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is quite a good idea too. You can bid for old tin that customers have stopped using: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market
<MooDoo> brobostigon: if it's your vps it doesn't matter, when it's a companies that's where the problems occur
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, certainly.
<diplo> http://www.phpmyfaq.de/ started using this now, used to have ODT's etc everywhere, preferring this
<MooDoo> rhanks for that TheOpenSourcerer didn't know about that
<diplo> Get my server here on Monday, so going to boot up some VM's to test and make a decision on a panel or just very good documentation
<MooDoo> diplo: big powerful box?
<AlanBell> diplo: a bit, the big issue is separation, it also tries to do too much of the DNS stuff, and does email etc
<diplo> Hand me down from the company that owns us, but fairly powerful.. not seen it or been given specs
<MooDoo> diplo: cool, I want a big server for vmware
<AlanBell> there is a rather nice core i7 980ex with SSD for â¬78/month there
<diplo> yeah, we have them in nottingham but nobody again knows what they're doing and also if the line drops I can't work on them
<MooDoo> diplo: give me lots of money and I'll go look after them for you ;)
<MooDoo>  lol
<AlanBell> we also find that with cpanel everyone continues to not know what they are doing :)
<MooDoo> I suppose it does bring out the laziness in people :)
<diplo> Basically, each staff member knows how to do there thing, they never look for whats causing an issue they just reinstall etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\there\their
<diplo> Never helps, so with my documentation I've added issues part to the bottom, issues that occur and how to resolve in common cases
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\whats\what's
<MooDoo> diplo: they need a kick up the jacksy :d
<diplo> heh :P
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, I type badly when typing fast.
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 even :D
 * diplo slaps own wrist
<diplo> MooDoo: They do!
<MooDoo> diplo: i've got a good size 11, what's the address ;)
<diplo> Colwick trading estate :)
<diplo> I know where it is,  if you saw the *serveR* room you'd laugh :)
<MooDoo> diplo: i know it's colwick i was teasing :D
 * TheOpenSourcerer might have found some sport for next Sunday: https://twitter.com/BOYCEYSPIZZA/status/357472308358680576/photo/1
<AlanBell> go for it!
<MooDoo> awesome, i'd have a go at that :d
<diplo> I'm not sure I can handle hot stuff like I used to
<MooDoo> ghost chilli is nice
<diplo> About to start making currys again soon, so will see how I get on with them first
<MooDoo> bhut jolikia mash is a stable part of my weekend bacon cob routine :D
 * TheOpenSourcerer needs to prepare his food plan.. Wife and kids go to France for a week next Thursday.
<diplo> how come you're not going TheOpenSourcerer ?
<brobostigon> bachelor life for a week,
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are camping. I do not camp
<TheOpenSourcerer> Would rather stick Bhut Jolokias in my eyeballs
<brobostigon> i like my bath too much, i dont camp either.
<diplo> hah, taking my kids camping next month. Love it
<MooDoo> going to bakewell this weekend with the family :D
<brobostigon> i should try glamping,
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Having said that, I *might* camp at the West Dean Chilli fiesta this year, but just one night and a little one-man tent jobby.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Nice
<SuperMatt> http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/nine-traits-of-the-veteran-network-admin-222513
<MooDoo> davmor2: handing having rents with a van sometimes ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: indeed, if the mother-in-law wasn't in hospital we would of gone off to Shropshire this weekend
<MooDoo> :(
<brobostigon> would most agree, that the when the charge light on a camera is red, it is charging?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: flashing? or just on
<brobostigon> MooDoo: just on,
<popey> I would read the manual to find out
<brobostigon> i cant find the manual.
<MooDoo> +1, what camera brobostigon ?
<davmor2> popey: pffff call yourself a man the manual went in the trash with the box ;)
<popey> I meant - get a pdf
<davmor2> popey: at least you are sounding like a geek now :D
<brobostigon> MooDoo: it is one of my dads cheap digital cameras, it says, traveler dv-500, on the caseing.
<davmor2> brobostigon: get the pdf from the manufacturers website
<brobostigon> davmor2: good point, yes.
<MooDoo> pah ah video camera
<brobostigon> yes.
<MooDoo> the don't have a historical page, try this one.
<MooDoo> http://www.traveler-service.de/cms/index.php?id=downloads-traveler-dv550hd-uk0
<brobostigon> MooDoo: thank you, i just foundthat same page myself also.
<davmor2> brobostigon: did you hear the disdain from MooDoo for it not being a stills camera then :D
<brobostigon> davmor2: it can take pictures also, it is both.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: a blinking light confirms charding a stable light is when it's completed.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: "You must use the supplied AC charger or USB cable.camera must be turned OFF; a blinking
<MooDoo> light confirms charging, but the light is steady when charging has been completed."
<brobostigon> stable of any colour ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: that's from the 550 manual, i know nothing more :p
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i am looking in the 5000 manual right now.
<MooDoo> thought you said it was a 500?
<MooDoo> did I miss a 0?
<MooDoo>  lol
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i think we both did abit, i think i did correct myself.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm blind :F
<MooDoo> :F
<MooDoo> arrrgh can't type either.
<brobostigon> ohwell, thats both of us then.
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> wow, the manual says it has motion detection, amazing.
<SuperMatt> I wonder, has anyone had much trouble with dejadup? I'm thinking of using it to back up some of my stuff, but I do kinda worry about it only keeping "updates"
<popey> eh?
<popey> it's just like rsnapshot / time machine / rdiff-backup
<SuperMatt> yeah, but I mean... I worry about losing the first file, which means the backup is broken completely
<popey> you could worry about losing any file in any backup
<MooDoo> if you're worried about that, why not just use rsync to another drive/server?
<SuperMatt> I guess
<SuperMatt> I guess  I get a little too paranoid
<MooDoo> me too why is why i rsync to a server and then rsync the server to a nas lol
<SuperMatt> I might just give dejadup a bash
<davmor2> SuperMatt: Keep 1 manual backup (have a look at the server guide for a good script) and then keep a regular dejadup backup,  If you aren't happy with what you get from dejadup you can always rebase from the manual
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: just get davmor2 to set it up for you, he's nice like that ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: no! and me and nice in the same sentence don't make me set czajkowski on you
<SuperMatt> Oh I know what I'm doing with rsync, et all
<SuperMatt> you should see some of the scripts I've made in the past
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's not interested in me, she might however stab you completely :D
<SuperMatt> but I'm just thinking of a low thrills, minimum interaction alternative
<davmor2> SuperMatt: the thing with dejadup is it is convenient
<MooDoo> davmor2: script + cron then you don't have to worry about running anything manually :D
<SuperMatt> these days I look more for confenience than awesomeness
<MooDoo> or what the heck, be a rebel and don't make backups...;)
<SuperMatt> nooooooo
<SuperMatt> no no no no no
<davmor2> MooDoo: My point was if you wanted to try dejadup and weren't sure you could run a test, but have a manual backup initially, so that if dejadup couldn't restore etc you had an alternate backup that could
<MooDoo> davmor2: okey cokey :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: and play with code on production
<SuperMatt> I'm talking about backs for home, btw
<MooDoo> davmor2: playing with code on production is right though?  I thought that's what you should be doing, i've been advising people to do that ;)
<SuperMatt> my work backup solution is a set of python scripts which scans a folder for the last version of a backup, and then does a hard linked backup of the latest data. When that's done, it then removes the oldest backup, all based on variables configured in json files
<MooDoo> I just use cp -Rv ;)
<MooDoo> i meant Ru
<SuperMatt> that's not bad
<SuperMatt> but the hard linked method is pretty cool, because you get snapshots of each sync and you can restore directly to that version
<SuperMatt> copying across only one file, or all of them
<popey> i just run rsnapshot on a server and it pulls from all my machines every 6 hours
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Depending on the data have you considered pushing it into a git repo?
<popey> neuro: that lazy delete thing isn't working out so well..
<SuperMatt> it's all my music and phots
<popey> neuro: 6 of them sat there
<neuro> how slow/full is the storage you're using? :(
<popey> should probably half the number of backups I am doing to give the deletes a chance to happen
<SuperMatt> standard hdds, not full at all ;)
<SuperMatt> I've just added 4TB
<SuperMatt> to my previous 6TB
<neuro> not you, ya tube :)
<popey> 12x2TB 7200rpm jobbies
<popey> btrfs volume, not too full
<popey> but it's a microserver so IO is a little starved
<SuperMatt> oh
<popey> think I'll suspend the job for a bit, wait for it to settle then restart it with fewer jobs
<popey> less frequent
<neuro> shame
<popey> its not a quick box
<neuro> i know
<popey> and backing up boxes which have lots of files
<popey> 0 */2  * * *    /usr/bin/rsnapshot hourly
<neuro> tho i do my backups to a microserver
<neuro> yeesh, really?
<popey> maybe change that to */4 ?
<neuro> neuro@saratoga:~$ sudo grep hourly /etc/cron.d/rsnapshot
<neuro> 0 */4	* * *		root	/usr/bin/rsnapshot hourly
<popey> hah
<popey> done!
<popey> will suspend them for the day and let the deletes happen though
<neuro> unless you're desperate for the data to be updated that often, every 4 hours works for me
<popey> yeah
<neuro> my hourlies are done in about 75 minutes
<neuro> + 20 for the delete
<neuro> and that's backing up to 2x1TB USB2 in a raid1 md config
<neuro> argh, i've run out of cold cherry 7up in my wee office fridge
<SuperMatt> :(
<MooDoo> neuro: beoff with you to the shops
<SuperMatt> lemon fanta is my drink of choice
<neuro> nah, i still have 8 cans left
<neuro> just not cold
<davmor2> neuro: you wee in an office fridge is that not unhygienic?
<neuro> tsk
<neuro> i have a wee, as in small, fridge
<MooDoo> davmor2: he's scottish you know that :d
<davmor2> neuro: I know that, it's just fun :D
<neuro> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Photo%2019-07-2013%2012%2019%2036.jpg
<neuro> wow, that came out blurrier than i thought it would
<SuperMatt> wait stop!
<SuperMatt> why did that jpg load SIDEWAYS?
<SuperMatt> oh wait, I know
<neuro> because i had my phone held up in landscape mode"
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: because of its exif!
<SuperMatt> the exif data has rotated it
<neuro> :)
<SuperMatt> TECHNOLOGY!
<SuperMatt> it'll never catch on
<MartijnVdS> neuro: aww, cute fridge :)
<neuro> yeah, i likes it
<neuro> holds 6 330ml cans
<MartijnVdS> holds just enough beer for an afternoon of work ;)
<neuro> or 2 330ml cans and a 500ml bottle of irn bru shoved in diagonally
<SuperMatt> your mistake was not putting new cans back in when you drank the old cans
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: You're a genius!
<neuro> yes, thank you captain obvious :)
<MooDoo> blast from the past :D - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgbeezer/2689182642/in/photostream/
<MartijnVdS> lugradians
<neuro> the fridge in less cramped, more beery days: http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuro/293997137/
<neuro> that old crappy switch is off to the right of the first pic now, replaced by an hp procurve. TECHNOLOGY!
<davmor2> MooDoo: man that is but the best photo is this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/8038433@N06/2701522887/
<neuro> christ, i never realised how hairy mrben is/was
<MooDoo> davmor2: you git
<davmor2> neuro: we didn't call him Chewie for the fun of it
<neuro> i can beat that pic tho
<neuro> probably nsfw: http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuro/2682684128/in/set-72157606256950381
<MooDoo> davmor2: revenge is sweet ;) http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/799483638_b8983eddbd.jpg?v=0
<neuro> AAAAAAAAH!
<neuro> forgot about that
<MooDoo> hehe
<MartijnVdS> neuro: time for some brain bleach
<bigcalm> Gah. I'm really struggling with how network routing works
<davmor2> MooDoo: that was Chris Debona's first image walking into LRL for sponsorship to take it to the states :)
<MooDoo> lol ha ha hah a
<MooDoo> wasn't to bad an image then
<MooDoo> i'm waiting for gong a thong uukpc edition, popey style ;)
<neuro> NOOO
<MooDoo> EXTREAME GONG A THONG :D
<neuro> oh the humanity
<Dave2> RMS should do it
<neuro> *gag*
<davmor2> bigcalm: Why? It's numbers, cables, and boxes :)
<neuro> Dave2: thanks, nearly brought my breakfast back up there
<Dave2> yw
<bigcalm> I have a VPN set up from a Rackspace firewall to an ADSL router. I'm trying to route traffic from a box connected to the ADSL router to a server connected to the Rackspace firewall
<bigcalm> And I can't work out how
<davmor2> Dave2: Could you stay where you are the men in white coats are on their way, and they'll only have to dart you if you move
<neuro> i'll move YOUR dart
<MooDoo> get Jono to do it instead....he wouldn't mind ;)
<bigcalm> # ip route add ip_address_of_server/32 via 192.168.5.1 dev eth0
<bigcalm> RTNETLINK answers: No such process
<bigcalm> 192.168.5.1 being the ip address that the VPN has assigned to the ADSL router for the VPN connection
<neuro> grrr, time to lart chrome ... "GPU Process 1.3GB"
<neuro> bigcalm: does your machine have an IP on the same subnet?
<neuro> why not just route via the LAN-facing IP, and let the router's routing table sort it out?
<bigcalm> neuro: no, it has an ip address of 192.168.1.4
<neuro> ip route add ip_addr_server/32 via 192.168.1.1 dev eth0 or whatever
<bigcalm> Right, tried that, it's stalling when I run mtr ip_address_of_server
<neuro> which perhaps means the router is misconfigured
<bigcalm> :|
<neuro> think about it
<bigcalm> Do I need to add a route do the box if the default route is via the router any way?
<neuro> if you use the VPN-side IP of the router in a route, how does the machine get to that VPN-side IP?
<bigcalm> I'm happy for the router to do the routing :)
<neuro> can you ping the VPN IP on the router from rackspace?
<neuro> or vice versa?
<bigcalm> I've removed the route I added to the local box. Running mtr on the rackspace ip address shows packets being sent/received in the VPN's management screen
<bigcalm> So that's working
<neuro> what happens if you try to hit the rackspace VPN IP from the box?
<bigcalm> The IP seems to be the same as its public ip
<bigcalm> The only other rackspace IP I see is that of the firewall
<neuro> don't you have a 192.168.5 IP on the other end?
<mungbean> why do they put those pull-tabs on the corner of bacon packets? nbody has ever successfully opened a packet with one
<neuro> lies
 * popey wonders if mungbean is trying out his new stand up comedy routine on us
<mungbean> lol.
<mungbean> just tried it for the millionth time. one day...
<mungbean> friday = bacon day
<mungbean> at home doing daddy duty today while wifey has a day off
<mungbean> going tough after < 5hr sleep
<MooDoo> 5 hours is about the norm for me lol
<mungbean> have a lol at an email MS sent me about the surface
<mungbean> http://pastebin.com/GaBedKiz
<mungbean> Why is Microsoft making such an aggressive Surface RT offer to education now?
<mungbean> A. Microsoft has a long tradition of offering special pricing to education customers. Microsoftâs mission in education is to help schools, students and educators realise their full potential.
<mungbean> not a firesale of 6M device then
<popey> yeah, touchpad all over again
<popey> but nobody wants them
<neuro> does it say "LOLZ WE SUCK BARGAINS MUCH CHEAPNESS HAHA NO DO NOT BUY IPAD ZOMG BAD BY SURFAZZZZ LOOK CHEEP NOT MANY UKPS DDOOOOOOOO IIIIIITTTT!"
<popey> if they were 100 quid, they'd fly off the shelves
<neuro> s/touchpad/playbook/
<mungbean> Â£133+VAT
<mungbean> i might tile my bathroom with them
<neuro> i see what you did there
<popey> I think I'll pass on your generous offer
<popey> I vowed not to buy any more phones/tablets till an ubuntu one appears
<mungbean> i wouldn't buy one for any money
<mungbean> or maybe a Â£20 limit if it runs kindle app
<mungbean> the trouble with doing wife swap for a day is that you are doing a job that you haven't learned the timing and efficiencies, hence wifey says HA! told you
<neuro> err, ok?
<popey> my wife is at the park with the kids
<popey> having a picnic (booboo)
<mungbean> i'm not saying its easy, far from it. but it makes it look worse when i'[m always running late
<neuro> right, updates application time, brb
<mungbean> just realised i've hardly opened a single letter addressed to me since the start of 2013
<mungbean> i just put it in my inpile
<mungbean> dota2 looks meh
<neuro> woo security updates ftw
<neuro> well, security update, singular
<MooDoo> silly question, anyone read this? - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubuntu-Certified-Professional-Study-Guide/dp/0071591109/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1374238752&sr=8-4&keywords=ubuntu+certification
<neuro> yes, i can read that
<neuro> it's in English, right?
<neuro> seriously though, it's almost 5 years old
<neuro> no way is it up-to-date for either ubuntu or LPIC
<shauno> I don't believe that certification exists anymore.  that's how out-of-date 2008 is
<MooDoo> davmor2: http://i.imgur.com/IiO5aBa.png
<SuperMatt> pfft
<davmor2> MooDoo: O' be..have, groovy baby
<MooDoo> :)
<arc__> anyway when i upgraded to 12.04 i lost all of my packages and they where compatible with 12.04.1 so i am confused
<popey> arc__: lost packages?
<arc__> yeah it had an error when installing/upgrading saying that can't restore all packages
<MooDoo> wow it does go quiet in here on a friday afternoon :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: they are all parttimers so they can go drinking in the sun on a friday
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow! Australia 97-7 lol
<popey> speak for yourself davmor2 â»
 * popey is dogfooding
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Some of us are still working
<davmor2> popey: Oh so you are at the pub ircing on your phone then right ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> But the beer is definitely starting to call loudly
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I'll be working till 21:00
<popey> davmor2: haha! kinda!
<popey> I am setting up ssh keys etc on phone so it's ready for travel next week
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'll be drinking way beyond that!
<davmor2> popey: when do you head off?
<popey> sunday
<davmor2> popey: and when you see Jono, "Dave says 'Owamya LOSER"
<popey> i dont think i could do your accent justice
<MooDoo> popey: just screw up your face and say it, you'll be about right ;)
<davmor2> popey: in all seriousness, tell jono all the best for marks talk that he is doing, I hope he does it justice :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> 104-8!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Australia are collapsing
<TheOpenSourcerer> (muffled gafaw)
<TheOpenSourcerer> W00t! 104-9
<TheOpenSourcerer> Need 58 runs to avoid the follow on. ROTFLOL
<bigcalm> I can see clouds. Woohoo!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Finally, a place to store your data/backups ;)
<bigcalm> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! Australia all out
<MartijnVdS> "Computerphile" about the Unix revolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rPPqm44xLs
<popey> thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> popey: beautiful history :)
<popey> might download these and put on phone for watching on the flight
<popey> haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcR7ylW-Gok
<popey> i know him!
<popey> he brought his cabinet to lugradio
<bigcalm> Oh I miss Defender
<popey> i remember playing R-Type Leo on that very cabinet at LRL
<directhex> i still want a neo geo, but i don't have money or space
<directhex> hell, i lack the space for an xbox one or ps4, which are higher priority if we're honest
<mungbean> can anyone recommend a good strimmer?
<popey> i like mine
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/diy-tools/dp/B00518BPHS one of them i think
<davmor2> mungbean: depends do you actually want to own one or is it a one off strim?
<davmor2> mungbean: if it's a one off strim look up a local hireshop
<mungbean> own a cheap but ok one
<mungbean> are the v cheap ones worse than useless?
<davmor2> mungbean: in that case the decent cheap ones are all around a Â£100
<mungbean> :(
<mungbean> more than my lawnmower
<davmor2> mungbean: well you can buy a cheap electric one but your emphasis seem to be on decent :P
<mungbean> might borrow my mums..
<mungbean> i sort of meant, if i spend 30 quid on an electric one , is it a comple waste?
<popey> i have no recent experience of electric ones
<popey> we bought that one 10 years ago, still going strong
<davmor2> mungbean: the petrol ones tend to be better.
<mungbean> my garden is pretty small
<mungbean> might borrow my mums and go from there
<popey> mine is small too
<popey> takes no time at all to mow
<davmor2> mungbean: borrow your moms this time, and hire a petrol one next time and see which is less of a faff it will help you decide :)
<mungbean> astroturf :
<mungbean> :D
<davmor2> concrete
<popey> heh
<davmor2> mungbean: move into a block of flats and you too can have a balcony like mine :D
<arc__> hi i have a question when i upgraded i lost all of my packages
<MartijnVdS> arc__: how did you upgrade?
<arc__> via live usb
<MartijnVdS> so you did a re-install, not an upgrade
<arc__> no it had a upgarde button
<MartijnVdS> And upgrade is done from a running Ubuntu system
<arc__> yes
<MartijnVdS> not from the live USB/CD
<arc__> i had 11.10 and i used a live usb to upgrade to 12.04.1
<MartijnVdS> you shouldn't have used the live-usb, you should just have clicked "Upgrade" in the security update tool
<arc__> if this help it said in the upgrade unable to restore packages
<MartijnVdS> using the live USB just re-installs the operating system cleanly
<MartijnVdS> popey: any idea?
<popey> uh
<popey> so you say "live usb" you booted from that live usb stick?
<arc__> yeah
<popey> did it finish okay?
<arc__> yeah 1 error
<arc__> could not restore packages
<popey> right, so it failed
<popey> unfortunate
<popey> so what it does is this.. scan your system for packages it doesn't recognise, and then find all the files and re-package them up..
<popey> then delete all the files (except home and etc) and do a clean install
<popey> then takes those packages it made and puts them back on top
<popey> thats the bit that failed
<arc__> yes
<popey> now I don't know if those packages are still lurking around somewhere on your filesystem, I don't fully know how that works
<popey> sorry, I suspect your packages are gone.
<popey> I'd be interested to know the solution though if they are still around, i've never done that kind of upgrade
<arc__> shall i ask in #ubuntu
<arc__> usa
<popey> ok
<popey> maybe post a question to askubuntu.com with the above detail about how you did the install, I'd be interested in following it
<arc__> i will ask in #ubuntu and if no help i will use askubuntu
<arc__> I am adding it to ask ubuntu now
<arc__> i have put this Hello I did an upgrade from 11.10 to 12.04 and all my packages have gone it only showed 1 error that the upgrade was unable to restore packages I am new to ubuntu so any help is good
<arc__> anything else to add or to delete before putting it on
<arc__> i have put it on there http://askubuntu.com/questions/321990/packages-gone-in-upgrade
<arc__> have a look and answer plz
<puttepop> Hello, any developers here?
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: developers of what?
<puttepop> java with gnome bindings
<MartijnVdS> probably better off asking on their channel specifically
<puttepop> tried but it seems to be dead
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: it's on irc.gimp.org, #java-gnome, according to the googles
<puttepop> yes I know :)
 * penguin42 has never heard of anyone doing java+gnome
<MartijnVdS> the mailinglist is a bit active
<MartijnVdS> not much, but a little
<MartijnVdS> doesn't Swing have a GTK+ theme?
<puttepop> Oh, OK I'll subscribe to that then
<puttepop> Yes, it does, but I wanted to learn GTK+ and java is my favourite language
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: try vala, it's written "for" GTK work, and has quite a few Java-ish bits ;)
<MartijnVdS> and it's actively used by lots of stuff, like Shotwell
<arc__> does anynoe know of any good desktop enviroments
<MartijnVdS> arc__: I rather like the default one in Ubuntu (unity)
<puttepop> MartijnVdS, what is vala?
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: https://wiki.gnome.org/Vala
<arc__> i need a fast and light one for my laptop not lxde or xcfe
<puttepop> MartijnVdS, thanks
<MartijnVdS> arc__: why not those two?
<arc__> i want it to look good and light weight
<puttepop> MartijnVdS, Thanks for the pointer but I'm not interested in learning yet another programming language
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: it's not that much different from other modern languages
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: and you should always be learning more languages -- every language you learn has some concept you'll want to re-use in another (and that will make you better as a programmer ;)
<puttepop> MartijnVdS, If I only had the time
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: but you do: it's the weekend!
<puttepop> MartijnVdS, I also like to be a bit social :)
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: well the vala community is active
<puttepop> MartijnVdS, OK thanks anyway
<MartijnVdS> puttepop: np, and good luck finding gnome-java help :)
<puttepop> MartijnVdS, Cheers :)
<HoT|2fC^> hey up :)
<MartijnVdS> \o HoT|2fC^
<HoT|2fC^> Just ordered my first ever rack mount server :D
<HoT|2fC^> I cant wait :)
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: What type of spec?
<HoT|2fC^> penguin42, its a Dual 2.4GHz Xeon, 3GB, 36.4GB HArd Drive, DVD ROM, with case all for Â£50
<HoT|2fC^> currently downloading 13.04 ubuntu server for it :) doesnt come untill monday :)
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: OK, cool - you'd be pushed to get the case and PSU for that; is that single socket dual core, or dual socket how many cores?
<HoT|2fC^> its 8 cores I think
<HoT|2fC^> x2 dual core
<HoT|2fC^> xeon
<penguin42> well #50 for somewhere between 4 and 8 cores ain't too bad - I mean I assume that's a P4 era xeon, but still
<HoT|2fC^> It comes with 2 hotplug psu's case, all of them
<HoT|2fC^> P4 yeah
<HoT|2fC^> by HP
<HoT|2fC^> \o/
<penguin42> what's it going to be called?
<HoT|2fC^> Lucy
<HoT|2fC^> :-)
<penguin42> good good
<HoT|2fC^> get spare hard drive caddy to :p
<penguin42> yeh that's good they can be pricey - what type drives - wide scsi?
<HoT|2fC^> HP ProLiant DL380 it is..
<penguin42> which gen?
<HoT|2fC^> G3 mate
<HoT|2fC^> is it good ? :o
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: Nod, might want to watch out for drives for it, SCA SCSI drives are a bit scarce/pricey these days
<HoT|2fC^> :O
<HoT|2fC^> comes with one so im ok :)
<HoT|2fC^> 36gb is enuff for now
<HoT|2fC^> most data thats going to be going on a hard drive will be my CCTV box recording on a 1TB hard drive an thats going to a switch along wi th the server.
<penguin42> now, you going to get a Lak rack for it?
<HoT|2fC^> Well not sure its going in the basement could I put it on top of a computer desk for time being ?
<penguin42> oh yeh
<HoT|2fC^> I would like a rack for it but im cheap so lol
<HoT|2fC^> its nice a cool down there so should be fine on temps like in this heat we have  :p
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: Oh no, the Lak is an Ikea table that just happens to be exactly the right width for rack kit :-)
<HoT|2fC^> ah nice
<HoT|2fC^> so its cheaper :p
<HoT|2fC^> I was looking at this
<HoT|2fC^> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/server-rack-6U-/200935795183?pt=UK_Computing_Rackmount_Cabinets_Frames&hash=item2ec8b4e9ef
<HoT|2fC^> to small or big?? for my 2U G3?
<penguin42> http://wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/LackRack
<HoT|2fC^> you dutch ? :p
<penguin42> no
<HoT|2fC^> oh just said .nl at end of domain lol, ah nice thats a good idea
<HoT|2fC^> I have a desk down there but the width isnt the same so wouldnt work unless sI boxed it off
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: Watch out for the depth of racks if you're buying one, also did it come with rack mounts?
<HoT|2fC^> penguin42 I dont think so :/
<HoT|2fC^> Dimensions (W x D x H): 8.59 x 44.45 x 65.41 cm
<HoT|2fC^> Weight: Minimum configuration: 20.41 kg ; Maximum configuration: 27.22 kg
<penguin42> oh a light one :-)
<HoT|2fC^> :-)
<shauno> that depth doesn't seem to match up.  the ebay link said 310mm deep, those dims are 445mm deep
<HoT|2fC^> shauno yeah need a different size its something I would want for it :)
<HoT|2fC^> the type of cabbie
<shauno> I tend to stick to 2-post for short setups.  those short racks tend to be for comms cabinets
<HoT|2fC^> :o
 * penguin42 never figured out why they never managed to standardise depth of rack kit
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they had to have *something* to disagree over
<HoT|2fC^> lol
<HoT|2fC^> I dont mind ill put it on the floor and sit on it whilest configuring it lol so really dont mind :)
<HoT|2fC^> http://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/funny-cable-mess-server-room.jpg
<penguin42> well yeh, but it's really hard to get n vendors kit to fit in the same rack
<HoT|2fC^> Glad I dont have to mess around in there lol
<penguin42> where n is greater than 0
<HoT|2fC^> so penguin42 will the table trick work then :) I might buy one in black an use that along with a 24port switch
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the IKEA one? Probably
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/LackRack
<HoT|2fC^> so what about the back? how would it support it
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: how would you do that in a real rack?
<HoT|2fC^> you wouldnt :)
<MartijnVdS> the same, then
<HoT|2fC^> but I mean like how does it hold in the wood lol
<HoT|2fC^> remember there metal racks not wood :)
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: see that wiki page
<HoT|2fC^> Ikea to ouch wouldnt that to crumble
<MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: I think proper wood screws hold better than the flimsy metal I've seen in racks
<HoT|2fC^> ah ok :)
<penguin42> HoT|2fC^: In a real rack you'd typically have rack rails that bolt front and back for a server
<MartijnVdS> and have an adjustable back part, so you could put that on the back legs of the table 8-)
<HoT|2fC^> cool :D
<penguin42> yeh although tend to be adjustable by slightly less than needed for the rack you're trying to put it in
<HoT|2fC^> for now its going on my desk raised on something
<HoT|2fC^> to let it breath underneight
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: to quote one "J. Clarkson": "How hard can it be?"
<penguin42> sigh
<shauno> one thing to watch with the rack lack .. the legs aren't solid all the way down
<HoT|2fC^> whos legs arent shauno
<HoT|2fC^> :p
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I've used racks with adjustable back rails, and ones that have the back rails split into 4 independently adjustable rails split every 10u or so
<HoT|2fC^> only body builders :D
<HoT|2fC^> right moff to cool off next to fan :) bb all thanks for all advice!
<HoT|2fC^> great help.
<SuperMatt> hmmm, replacing my fonts with source sans make everything look quite fresh, and beautiful
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-20
<czajkowski> Laney: popey see they are cute https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPlGAUwCEAADJTF.jpg:large
<dwatkins> http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FP1/SUGV/H97JR1WU/FP1SUGVH97JR1WU.LARGE.jpg
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: :(
<dvrr> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).   i face  this  type  of  problem  please  help me
<popey_> dvrr: why are you running that command?
<dvrr> yes
<popey> re-read what i typed dvrr
<MartijnVdS> that's not a good answer to a "why?" question
<dvrr> popey:  ya   running   in  terminal   apt-get -f  install
<popey> dvrr: I asked *WHY* you are running it
<dvrr> apt-get  is  not  working   when i  remove  old kernel   some errore  showing
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: what was the exact error?
<popey> paste the errors to http://paste.ubuntu.com
<dvrr> my boot partation is full that's y  i am  remove
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: what was the exact error? please paste it on http://paste.ubuntu.com
<dvrr> popey: ya  i pested
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: what URL did it give you?
<MartijnVdS> $(window).onScroll(function(e) { var theta = $(window).scrollTop() % Math.PI; $('.logo').css({ transform: 'rotate(' + theta + 'rad)' });
<MartijnVdS> });
<MartijnVdS> uh
 * MartijnVdS needs to learn to keep the mouse under control 8-)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html + http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
<dvrr> No apport report written because MaxReports is reached already   can't  remove  old  kernel
<popey> dvrr: you need to pastebin the entire output
<popey> not just one line
<dvrr> yes
<popey> dvrr: have you pasted it?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey_> wtfnode
<dvrr> Hiiiii
<dvrr> old kernel  not  removed  some error showing please  help me
<dvrr> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
<dvrr> i face  this type of  problem
<dvrr> popey:  please  could you  open  this URL  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5893970/  this type  of  errors  i faced  please  tel  me
<DJones> Ugh, ubuntu-uk mailing list yet again degenerates into a top/bottom posting 'discussion'
<Myrtti> well, it's Already been two months since the last time
<Myrtti> I suppose it was overdue
<DJones> Its more frustrating in the way this one has happened, the orginal poster was quite reasonably saying how they'd learned about top/inline/bottom posting in mailing lists and the reasons/benefits for each and that  now understood why people suggest not top posting, but it still ends up as a slanging match
<DJones> Its certainly no longer a welcoming mailing list
<DJones> I'm beginning to think that it should be replaced with a recreated 'sounder' mailing list, I'm shut that would have less flame wars
<SuperEngineer> DJones: perhaps you should see my reply on exactly that - didn't want to join in but - in short, you're right
<DJones> SuperEngineer: Yeah, I saw that
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> DJones - I also noticed the most "annoyed" person didn't answer back - perhaps, now and again, a voice of reason is the answer ;)
<SuperEngineer> [put emphasis on the *is* there]
<penguin42> Alas Smith
<SuperEngineer> RIP Mel
<brobostigon> raiders of the lost ark, bbc1, 6:30pm.
<ali1234> complaining about top/bottom posting is a sure sign of using an inferior mail client
<MartijnVdS> DELETE! DELETE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5s4-Kak49o
 * brobostigon points MartijnVdS at bbc1.
<shauno> it'd be nice if there was a diplomatic way to remind the "we're hardcore traditionalists, rfcs are bedtime reading" brigade that they speak only for themselves
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Indy?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: indy :)
<penguin42> wth does info gcc bring me up gcov's page
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> it's the first page in your index mentioning gcc/
<penguin42> well I've got gcc-4.8.info installed, and indeed it says it's the Gcov node in the file gcc-4.8.info it's displaying
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ info
<penguin42> hmm yes it looks like the two nodes are   gcc-4.8: (gcc-4.8) Gcov.    and    gcc-4.8: (gcc-4.8).   is this the space sorting before the .
<penguin42> bug 778796
<lubotu3> bug 778796 in gcc-defaults (Ubuntu) "âinfo gccâ broke. The package gcc-doc should be rebuilt with new debhelper to get trigger support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778796
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-21
<Azelphur> meep, have we all seen this? http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html?t=1558712
<popey> yeah, about 4 hours ago
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> damn
<ali1234> how am i supposed to know if i even had an account, if it's down?
<Azelphur> first world problems.
<Azelphur> also, I'm having a really odd situation, my drive space is disappearing!
<ali1234> hmm defaced eh?
<ali1234> what did it day?
<ali1234> http://ubuntu-discourse.org/t/looks-like-ubu-forums-was-just-defaced/603
<ali1234> nice logo
<penguin42> erk I hadn't
<Azelphur> baobab reports that I've got 600GB used, but my drive is 1TB and is full
<Azelphur> and, whatever is happening, something is eating any additional space I free at a very quick rate.
<popey> look in /var/log
<penguin42> Azelphur: Probably an open file that's deleted
<popey> most recent file
<ali1234> how is that possible, if it is already full?
<Azelphur> popey: this is my /home drive
<popey> nice
<ali1234> i mean if it is full, how can it get more full?
<popey> when he deletes stuff
<penguin42> ali1234: Because as soon as there is more space it writes
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's full, if I free any space up, it gets eaten again.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Use lsof to find all open files
<ali1234> so whatever is filling it, does not crash on error when the drive is full
<Azelphur> ali1234: seems so, yes
<popey> ls -latr /home
<ali1234> so it isn't eg a deleted firefox download
<penguin42> Azelphur: Most likely it's a deleted file
<popey> whats most recently written?
<popey> s/\home/\~/
<Azelphur> popey: /home/azelphur , is that meant to show all files because it isn't
<popey> it does here
<Azelphur> I mean, recursively
<popey> no
<Azelphur> I just get the contents of /home
<Azelphur> so yea, it tells me that /home/azelphur was written most recently
<popey> du -xB M --max-depth=2 /home/alan | sort -rn | head -n 15
<popey> shows top 15 directories by size
<Azelphur> popey: yea, not particularly revealing, it says much the same as baobab
<ali1234> how fast is it filling?
<Azelphur> ali1234: not too sure, but gigabytes in a few seconds.
<ali1234> hahaha impossible
 * penguin42 changes lp password
<Azelphur> I'll try and time it xD
<ali1234> use ncdu instead of baobab
<popey> sparse file?
<ali1234> yeah it would have to be really
<popey> ncdu is lovely
<penguin42> Azelphur: Do a du twice separated by a few seconds, see if it changes, if it doesn't then it's definitely a deleted file
<penguin42> oh yeh, could be a sparse one filling up
<ali1234> vmdk?
<Azelphur> ali1234: looks like around 35MB/sec
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'd suggest atop if you had space to install a package
<Azelphur> oO, iotop says  I'm running rsync
<popey> yeah, a vm growing
<popey> rsnapshot calls rsync
<Azelphur> oh, but it's only reading, and yea, that's just my rsnapshot going off to my other machine
<Azelphur> so I don't think it's that.
<Azelphur> rm'd another file, it's XBMC doing it
<ali1234> how do you know?
<Azelphur> iotop shows it writing like crazy as soon as I give it the space to do so
<ali1234> check what files it has open in proc
<Azelphur> how do I do that?
<ali1234> ls -l /proc/`pidof xbmc`/fd
<ali1234> assuming the process is called xbmc
<Azelphur> hmm
<Azelphur> appears I have two XBMC processes open
<Azelphur> aha, the one that was dead was writing like hell to a log file, I deleted the log file
<Azelphur> but clearly it somehow stuck around
<Azelphur> upon killing the xbmc processes, 151GB of drive space appeared
<Azelphur> problem solved \o/
<ali1234> the file will stay around until the process closes it
<penguin42> nod, deleted files are fun like that
<ali1234> you can still even access the contnts of the file through the symlinks in /proc/.../fd/
<Azelphur> fun
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> :( latest chrome beta + BBC Schedule page = b0rky
<MartijnVdS> (http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/guide)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<MartijnVdS> is it also meltingly hot on that side of the sea?
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> will probably be about mid 20c this afternoon.
<MartijnVdS> it's going to be 30ish today here, and the rest of the week
<brobostigon> ouch,
<SuperEngineer> morning peeps
<brobostigon> we had 30c odd this week also.
<brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> hi brobostigon, MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> oh dear, i think either i didnt put enough sugar in my coffee or my coffee has gone off.
<SuperEngineer> anyone else been busy checking their password list this morning?
<brobostigon> ubuntu forums was hacked, yes.
<SuperEngineer> yup
<brobostigon> i havent used it in ages, so my password on there is ancient.
<SuperEngineer> ditto, but suddenly realised I *did* have another service with same password - not any more
<brobostigon> ah. oh dear.
<SuperEngineer> all cool - pwd changed before old one being of any value to anyone
<MartijnVdS> I never made an account \o/
<brobostigon> it just proves the point, the only forum i use is xda, and even then i use tapatalk to access it.
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: the phrase "smug smile" springs to mind :D
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: well.. :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperEngineer> mornin' bigcalm
<nigelb> Hello
<nigelb> czajkowski: I'm sorry we couldn't meet at the pub last week. If you have time the next time I'm in UK, we should meet! :)
<christel> good luck with that! she is so busy! i've been trying to arrange a date since december and she only lives 15 minutes drive away! :P
<czajkowski> christel: I know :(
<czajkowski> christel: see FB, new hens !
<christel> oooh new hens!
<christel> i may come kidnap your hens then you'd have to make me tea to negotiate hostage release :D
<czajkowski> damn fox got 2
 * christel nods
<christel> oh no!
<christel> bastard :(
<czajkowski> so we had to replace them as the last one was very lonley
<christel> i can imagine!
<czajkowski> christel: indeed
<brobostigon> social animals.
<popey> moo
<popey> from a bar in terminal 3
<czajkowski> new hen has laid an egg
<czajkowski> on the side of a tree
<czajkowski> we may need to work on her laying skills :)
<brobostigon> just made more coffee with my fresh coffee, and it has gone off. so have instant coffee insted, ohwell.
<christel> haha bless
 * bigcalm returns from watching a bazillion youtube videos
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: which ones?
 * popey goes to get on a plane
<popey> *excited*
<popey> ttfn
<marxjohnson> have fun popey!
<MartijnVdS> popey: \o
<czajkowski> popey: toodles
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Hat Films playing Trials Evolution and Minecraft FTB
<bigcalm> popey: happy trails
<StevenR> if I had an ubuntu forum account.... what would the welcome mail be from/look like?
<StevenR> (I'm not sure if I have one or not)
<SuperEngineer> ...and so the mail list 2inline posting" argument goes on.... [day 2 now].  Respect to Sean Miller though.
<SuperEngineer> * "inline
<StevenR> SuperEngineer: can I vote for interwoven posting? (Interweave alternate words from your reply and the original)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<neuro> oh, good
<neuro> http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html?t=2089805
<neuro> ubuntu forums hacked
<neuro> all usernames, email addresses and encrypted passwords compromised
<penguin42> yeh I'm a bit surprised there isn't more stuff asking for people to change them yet; I shared my password with launchpad and I bet a lot of other people did (I changed it some hours ago)
<neuro> good shout
<penguin42> and lp would be a much worse target
<neuro> https://login.launchpad.net/
<neuro> took a few clicks to find that :P
<penguin42> wow you found that quickly; took me about 10 minutes!
<neuro> and on that note, i'm off
<neuro> :)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I think you'll find the main advisory actually does give that advice - & all notifications re the hack point to the main advisory
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I haven't been sent the advisory - I've just seen people mention it here
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: whoops!
<SuperEngineer> if you use fb or g+ - follow there perhaps - but mainly, now that you know, do what I did & check your pwd lists for any other a/c with same pwd.  I got a surprise myself!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well I tend to use one password per org; so I know I only used it for Ubuntu stuff
<SuperEngineer> [fortunately I was up early this morning so no comprimise
 * penguin42 hadn't gone to bed yet :-)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: are you a robot/
<MartijnVdS> ?
<SuperEngineer> ..or a clubber?
<MartijnVdS> maybe he likes to experience *all* of the weekend :)
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * SuperEngineer thinks of improvement to pwd holding apps: if you enter a pwd that's in use already - stick up a notication saying "OI! IDIOT! YOU'VE GOT THAT IN USE ELSEWHERE"
<SuperEngineer> [or maybe just "OI! IDIOT!"]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: CREATE UNIQUE INDEX user_pass ON "user"(password);
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: "Sorry, that password is already in use by another user"
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: or "Sorry, that password is already in use by another user - you idiot!"
 * SuperEngineer refers to self there
<brobostigon> "hey mate, try again.!!!"
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you must have turned sudo's "insult" mode on :)
<brobostigon> that would work.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: well that's a bit more polite I suppose
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: :D
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: yes. why not try a haiku ?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/02/18/let-sudo-insult-you-when-you-screw-up/
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Negative
<SuperEngineer> "Roses are red, violets are blue.  That passwords in use, an idiot are you"
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Why do you query my mechanical basis?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: lack of sleep
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: oh, no - on weekends or when I'm on holiday I tend to switch to waking up about midday and going to bed at about 3am
<penguin42> unfortunately I'm back at work tomorrow and will have to get up before 8am :-(
<MartijnVdS> ah.. I always wake up at 6am, no matter when I go to sleep
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: What is this '6am' of which you speak?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: a beautiful time!
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: just read that page... /me likes ;)
<diddledan> fooey it's hot
<MartijnVdS> it is :|
<diddledan> I am soaking in sweat
<penguin42> diddledan: Cooled down a lot here
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: fans help with that
<arc__> hi how/can I move all my packages from 1 ubuntu partition to another ubuntu partition
<penguin42> you mean your entire installation or what?
<arc__> yes or some packages
<arc__> which ever is easy
<penguin42> you generally can't move part of an installation
<penguin42> except things like /home or the whole of /var - but not part of the installation
<arc__> what does var contain
<penguin42> lots of system stuff
<arc__> what about my applications
<SuperEngineer> arc__: 1 question - why do you want to do it?
<penguin42> they're all somewhere under / typically /usr and or /bin
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Thank you
<arc__> my other partition has a lot's lot's more space
<SuperEngineer> boom!
<arc__> ubuntu now 13gb other 25gb
<SuperEngineer> arc__: increase size of current partition! decreaese other. full backup advised
<arc__> i have thought about this but don't know how/or can't
<penguin42> arc__: Is a lot of your space used by your installation or stuff in your home directory?
<arc__> ?
<arc__> what do you mean :(
<penguin42> arc__: Well what's using all the space - is it the installation or is it things like your pictures/documents/etc ?
<arc__> there are lot's of nandroid backups and apk and iso + installation and applications
<penguin42> arc__: So those are all in something like /home/arc or whatever your user is called?
<SuperEngineer> erm... remove stuff not used?
<arc__> yes but what about the apt-get stuff i downloaded i use it all
<SuperEngineer> arc__: what size is current partition?
<penguin42> arc__: Right but if most of the space is the stuff in your /home it's a lot easier just to move that to another partition and leave the rest of your installation OK
<arc__> around 13gb
<arc__> it took ages to install adb for android and i don't want to lose it
<penguin42> so you've got a good backup - right?
<SuperEngineer> undestood
<SuperEngineer> *understood
<arc__> no i am a new ubuntu user and only used ubuntu for like 4mounts and dvd/cd drive burned out
<arc__> 4 months
<SuperEngineer> so first decrease other partion - 2nd resize current to fill the then unused space
<SuperEngineer> ...and in answer to your next question....
<SuperEngineer> gparted?
<SuperEngineer> ..it's fairly self explainiory once installed
<arc__> i will try it now wait a sec for results
<SuperEngineer> ...do you have anything to backup to?
<arc__> no except skydrive or ubuntu one
<arc__> or use
<arc__> or usb
<SuperEngineer> still ok
<arc__> 4gb usb
<SuperEngineer> ...might be better doing it from a live cd
<SuperEngineer> ooops
<arc__> wait i install 2 ubuntu's so if i delete 1 grub will crap up
<arc__> wait i have installed 2 ubuntu's so if i delete 1 grub will crap up
<arc__> grammar mistake
<SuperEngineer> do you use both?
<arc__> i will post screen shot
<arc__> of gparted
<arc__> http://snag.gy/HXwF3.jpg
<SuperEngineer> arc if you delete one from within the one you use and reinstall grub, grub will not fail
<arc__> ok
<arc__>  i've done it
<SuperEngineer> ...and I would not be panicking if I saw that percentage of free space anyway! You sure you want to do anything?
<SuperEngineer> arc__: done what?
<SuperEngineer> whatever you do or have done - do not restart machine until grub reinstalled
<arc__> ready to delete /dev/sda2
<penguin42> would do it the other way
<arc__> how
<penguin42> which did you install first, the one on sda2 or the one on sda3 ?
<arc__> sda3
<penguin42> hmm ok, then you're probably going to have to do it this way
<arc__> grub is on sda2
<penguin42> it's just it's easier to enlarge a partition into free space *after* it than before it
<arc__> will it work
<MartijnVdS> it will, but moving data takes forever
<arc__> i will just take /home/nimesh+arc and put it on /dev/sda2
<arc__> is it a good idea
<SuperEngineer> sorry - went to the loo - have you deleted an Ubuntu tat grub expects to find?
<SuperEngineer> *that
<arc__> not delete anything yet
<SuperEngineer> phew!
<arc__> ok :)
<SuperEngineer> [anyway, it wouldn't have been the end of your world if you had a live cd to hand]
<arc__> live usb
<SuperEngineer> still cool
<arc__> ok now what
<arc__> (live usb's are faster)
<SuperEngineer> what do you want to do? remove sda2 & increase size of sda3?
<SuperEngineer> ...do you use the Ubuntu on sda2?
<arc__> i think sda2 would be good
<SuperEngineer> sda2 for which option?
<arc__> keep
<SuperEngineer> cool
<arc__> ok then
<SuperEngineer> then mount sda2 from the Ubuntu on sda3 - cut and paste - go for a walk - have a bath - grow a beard etc
<arc__> sda 2 has ubuntu on it
 * SuperEngineer bangs head on desk :D
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: \m/ ?
<arc__> sorry
<arc__> i am a noob so sorry again
<SuperEngineer> no need to apologise
<SuperEngineer> is Ubuntu on sda2 only?
<diddledan> to refer to one's self as a n00b means you're further advanced enough to realise that you're at the beginning of the awesome journey :-D
<arc__> sda2 and 3
<SuperEngineer> i thought it was on both
<SuperEngineer> by that do you mean you 2 different versions of Ubuntu installed?
<arc__> i did not know how to fix grub rescue so i install another so there's sda 2and 3
<arc__> same
<webpigeon> same versions, different installs or same versions, 1 install
<SuperEngineer> you're less of a noob than u think!
<diddledan> yeah, that's what I meant :-p
<arc__> sme
<arc__> same ver 2 installs
<arc__> i am really bad at this
<arc__> * ok then
<arc__> any suggestions
<SuperEngineer> arc__: so begin at the begin - when you boot - which Ubuntu do you boot into?
<arc__> cuz all my stuff is on sda3 i boot into sda3
<SuperEngineer> [this question will not cure yoiur problem but will help us]
<arc__> ok
<SuperEngineer> ..and you want this stuff on sda2
<SuperEngineer> ?
<arc__> no
<SuperEngineer> SuperEngineer's  desk is getting a head mark on it
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: stop self-harming!
<SuperEngineer> :)
<arc__> i worse than the idea of osx
<arc__> ha ha :(
<arc__> any suggestions
<MartijnVdS> arc__: so, you just want the Ubuntu install on sda2 and expand it? Then you use gparted to remove sda3 and expand sda2
<MartijnVdS> did you do anything else?
<arc__> with out lossing the stuff on sda 3
<MartijnVdS> arc__: you'll have to make a backup of that then
<arc__> and /home (all)
<arc__> how
<MartijnVdS> arc__: on an USB hard disk, or online, or somewhere else
<MartijnVdS> arc__: use the live CD, you can just copy the files you want to keep
<arc__> how do i see how big it is
<MartijnVdS> right click -> properties will show the size of a folder
<arc__> ok i will see
<MartijnVdS> or you can use the tool named "baobab" (weird name, I know) to see how big which directories/files are
<arc__> i will do a copy now
<arc__> got an error
<arc__> error: Operation not supported by backend
<MartijnVdS> arc__: how did you try to copy?
<MartijnVdS> from where to where?
<arc__> home/nimesh to usb
<MartijnVdS> and using which program? the file manager?
<MartijnVdS> what kind of file system is on the usb drive?
<arc__> yes file manager no root mode
<arc__> do i need to use nautilus
<arc__> sudo nautilus
<MartijnVdS> don't do that
<MartijnVdS> don't run graphical programs as root
<MartijnVdS> also, please answer my questions, as that helps me to help you
<arc__> what question
<MartijnVdS> 18:48 < MartijnVdS> and using which program? the file manager?
<MartijnVdS> 18:48 < MartijnVdS> what kind of file system is on the usb drive?
<SuperEngineer> "Operation not supported by backend"... sounds like Homer Simpson on a bad day ;)
<arc__> file manager ntfs
<arc__> file manager ntfs (usb)
<MartijnVdS> arc__: ah yes, NTFS doesn't support Unix/Linux file permissions
<MartijnVdS> that's what's giving the error
<arc__> ok fat32 or what
<MartijnVdS> ext4
<arc__> ok wait a sec
<arc__> can't seam to be able to mount usb
<MartijnVdS> arc__: use the disk utility, you can use that to re-format as Ext4 as well
<arc__> i habe done to format using gparted
<arc__> i can't :Daemon is inhibited
<MartijnVdS> yeah, close gparted first
<arc__> ok tanks
<arc__> i don't have permissions to do it
<arc__> copy
<MartijnVdS> strange
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: do you have an idea?
<SuperEngineer> hmmm ... gksudo - but that should not be needed, surely?
<MartijnVdS> usually not
<arc__> wait a sec for screen shot
<MartijnVdS> but why wouldn't he be able to copy the files to a new file system?
<SuperEngineer> wrong owner
<arc__> here http://snag.gy/Ptjrt.jpg
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but uid 1000 = uid 1000
<SuperEngineer> where are we doing this from?
<MartijnVdS> livecd
<SuperEngineer> hmmm...
<arc__> no no no no
<arc__>  /home
<arc__> i have no irc on live usb
<arc__> if you whant it will take 2 mins to boot up and back on
<arc__> live usb
<arc__> nobody told me to boot up
<arc__> y/n to live usb 5 sec
<arc__> 4
<arc__> 2
<arc__> 3
<arc__> 2
<arc__> 1
<arc__> answer
<arc__> i been an idiot haven't i
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> but you should be able to copy the files
<MartijnVdS> can't see why it's showing an error
<arc__> you have seen the screen shot
<arc__> right
<MartijnVdS> yeah, but I don't know why it's saying that
<MartijnVdS> maybe ask on askubuntu?
<arc__> any other screen shots you want me to make
<SuperEngineer> arc__: when you said "/home", were you trying to copy all of /home to the usb?
<arc__> no just nimesh
<SuperEngineer> again... phew!
<SuperEngineer> it is less than size of ext4 formatted usb?
<arc__> yes
<arc__> usb =2gb file =1.7gb
<arc__> http://snag.gy/3FHPv.jpg
<SuperEngineer> do you have any apps open using [or might be using] the stuff you're copying?
<arc__> no just terminal and disk util
<arc__> and xchat
<arc__> askubuntu is not that helpful at times unlike irc chanels like this one
<SuperEngineer> why not try to copy them directly to the other partition?
<arc__> ok i will try now
<arc__> same error no permissions
 * SuperEngineer reckons you will have to thius from live usb then
<SuperEngineer> [will have to *&try* to do this....]
<arc__> ok i will boot it up wait here plz
<SuperEngineer> we wait... pregnant with antipation....
<arc__> ok be back as nimesh or arc
<SuperEngineer> [this is why popey shouldn't be allowed to travel - just glued permanently here ready to put his mind / his techies minds onto it
<arc__> hello
<arc__> again
<arc__> is anyone here
<SuperEngineer> arc__: boo!
<arc__> you go me
<arc__> i will try copying it again
<arc__> will copy but some thing no permission to read it so can't copy somethings
<arc__> need some help now i am stuck
<SuperEngineer> change permissions ?
<arc__> how
<arc__> see this shot http://snag.gy/8ttLs.jpg
<SuperEngineer> dangerous if not  sure - & I'm not sure what these files are!
 * SuperEngineer looks at screenshoit
<MartijnVdS> arc__: can you open a terminal and type 'id' and 'ls -ld /home' and 'ls -ld /media'
<MartijnVdS> arc__: and paste everything from the terminal in pastebin?
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<arc__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5897879/                 here it is
<MartijnVdS> arc__: ah oops.
<arc__> this might help as well http://snag.gy/F7qHr.jpg
<arc__> what oops
<MartijnVdS> arc__: ls -ld /home/* and ls -ld /media/* please
<MartijnVdS> arc__: I asked you to run the wrong commands :)
<arc__> ok here http://paste.ubuntu.com/5897882/
<MartijnVdS> aha
<arc__> what
<MartijnVdS> arc__: somehow it's mounted as user "root", so you can't use it
<arc__> and
<MartijnVdS> arc__: can you figure out which one is your usb stick?
<SuperEngineer> arc__: I'm seeing a lot of 2root" there!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: he need to make a folder on his USB stick, chown to himself, and then copy to that
<SuperEngineer> whoops - sorry MartijnVdS - you where well in front of me there
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but I think 2GB won't be quite enough
<SuperEngineer> agreed
<arc__>  /media/0613b25b-1731-4587-805b-987881ce881f
<SuperEngineer> [on both points!]
<arc__> the home/nimesh  is only 1.7
<MartijnVdS> arc__: sudo mkdir /media/0613b25b-1731-4587-805b-987881ce881f/backup; chown 1000:1000 /media/0613b25b-1731-4587-805b-987881ce881f/backup
<MartijnVdS> arc__: ^
<MartijnVdS> the chown might fail, add sudo as well
<MartijnVdS> wait
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu is *999* now?
<MartijnVdS> sigh..
<arc__> ok now what
<SuperEngineer> ooo - so impatient!
<MartijnVdS> arc__: sudo rsynv -aPv /home/nimesh /media/0613b25b-1731-4587-805b-987881ce881f
<MartijnVdS> rsync
<MartijnVdS> at least that'll work.
<arc__> wait error
<arc__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5897896/
<arc__> i am on a live usb so  /home/nimesh won't work right
<MartijnVdS> arc__: ah wait yes.. it's probably /media/a9bcb23f-aa03-4c25-84e5-f2cf5c6233bc/home/nimesh
<MartijnVdS> can you try with that?
<SuperEngineer> arc__: as I said - less of a noob than you think!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> we're all noobs at something, and we've all been noobs at this
<SuperEngineer> +1
<arc__> ok it's doing something
<arc__> so what does the command do then
<SuperEngineer> ermmm... it works!
<arc__> ha ha :0
<SuperEngineer> real question is... "how many thanks do I owe to MartijnVd? "
<MartijnVdS> arc__: rsync = remote sync, it copies files from one place to another (and only the changed bits if you run it more than once)
<arc__> it is copying now my folders just did the configs
<MartijnVdS> arc__: often used for backup tools for that last reason
<MartijnVdS> arc__: see 'man rsync' for more details
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you know where to buy the thanks-beer ;)
<SuperEngineer> ;D
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: just read TheOpenSourcerer's blog :P
<arc__> thanks you guys
<MartijnVdS> arc__: no problem :)
<arc__> i can only fix some xp and other problems
<MartijnVdS> arc__: just keep at it, you'll learn how to fix Ubuntu too :)
<MartijnVdS> arc__: keep the wiki and help.ubuntu.com handy, and askubuntu of course
<arc__> i should watch hak5 on revision 3
<MartijnVdS> arc__: nah, the Ubuntu Podcast ;)
<arc__> oh ok
<SuperEngineer> arc__: I still fix/teach windoze pc's on a charitable status - some of my students now use Ububtu :)
<arc__> oh ok
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and they're not under threat?
<SuperEngineer> nope - some do it volountarily - some need a kick in the n*tS
<SuperEngineer> how's that for advocacy!  ;)
<arc__> can you help with this if you want http://askubuntu.com/questions/321990/packages-gone-in-upgrade
<SuperEngineer> soprry - but no... I'm off to soak in that bath I ran before this conversation started!
 * SuperEngineer is not an ice-cube!
<arc__> ok maybe in your spare time
<arc__> how do you use irc chat features
<arc__> the copy is done if wanted to know
<SuperEngineer> arc__: just had a quick look - first impressions are 1/ not enough detail & 2/ some packages get deprecated.
<SuperEngineer> soak time folks - have fun
<arc__> yeah i had a 2day irc chat on this in #ubuntu (usa
<arc__> MartijnVds: Can i now copy with ease to sda2 and delete sda3
<SuperEngineer> ...7 thanks MartijnVdS for joining in on theat problem... was running out of ideas / ways to restate the needed actions ;)
<arc__> thank you all
<arc__> Can i now copy with ease to sda2 and delete sda3
<diddledan> should somebody change the topic to alert everyone to the ubuntuforums hacking?
<SuperEngineer> no
<diddledan> oh?
 * SuperEngineer wonders.. what d'ya want from me  - to take the pooter to my long awaited bath?
 * SuperEngineer ewalks to bathroom
<diddledan> skip the bath :-p
<diddledan> geeks are meant to be stinky :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: break the stereotype!
<virusuy> hi all, greetings from uruguay !
<MartijnVdS> greetings from you're a guy?
<virusuy> lol
<virusuy> Uruguay, S.America
<diddledan> or is it "you're a gay"?
<virusuy> a little country between argentina and brazil
<MartijnVdS> with towns like "Mercedes" and "Maldonado".. but still no F1 drivers ;)
<MartijnVdS> according to Google Maps
<virusuy> MartijnVdS: lol
<MartijnVdS> virusuy: anyway, welcome ;)
<virusuy> in fact i was born in Mercedes but i'm currently living in Montevideo
<virusuy> MartijnVdS: thanks !
<diddledan> nice: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2013/07/12/juju-now-available-for-osx/
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah, saw that last week
<diddledan> yeah, I been away :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: though lots of people complain about juju
<MartijnVdS> because it installs at server install/boot time or something?
 * MartijnVdS never used it
<diddledan> really? I thought it was just a similar utility to chef and puppet
<diddledan> those two get rave reviews, so why juju doesn't I don't understand
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: a) it's canonical, canonical is evil (see: mir, unity, ...)
<diddledan> I see
<diddledan> meh, at least canonical are pushing the envelope
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Puppet and Chef are more for managing (expanding) existing clusters, juju seems to brand itself as being for setting up new ones
<ali1234> juju is not really like chef and puppet
<diddledan> oh
<MartijnVdS> The things I've seen juju is more for "playing around" with software
<ali1234> juju is like a way to package software the runs on a cluster
<MartijnVdS> not for making properly managed/maintained big deployments
<diddledan> I must have either misunderstood the role of juju or conversely misunderstood the role of puppet/chef
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: so are puppet recipes
<ali1234> no, puppet recipes can be applied to single machines
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or a set
<ali1234> the first step in any juju recipe is always "provision a new VM"
<MartijnVdS> which is insane
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> they keep talking about how they will fix that but then never do
<diddledan> so you can't alter an already running vm
<ali1234> you can
<ali1234> but then it won't be juju any more
<ali1234> see, while puppet and chef are typically used to configure server, juju also is used to manage them
<ali1234> if you want to change any setting, you have to put into the juju charm how to change that setting
<ali1234> then you can change it across all server
<ali1234> at any time you can log in to an instance and mess with it, but then it's not juju any more
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: by spinning up a bunch of new VMs and dropping the old ones?
<ali1234> no, it knows how to reconfigure an instance - assuming you tell it, in the charm
<MartijnVdS> ah, that's an improvement then
<ali1234> it's down to the charms though, whether it works. and whether one charm is compatible with another
<diddledan> so how is it different to using puppet and chef recipes for reconfiguring?\
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: puppet/chef can't (or have a hard time) spinning up new VMs
<ali1234> diddledan: juju charms are general purpose. there is one charm for apache, one charm for mysql, one charm for wordpress, one charm for mediawiki... and you just combine them
<ali1234> if you want mediawiki or wordpress, you use the same apache charm
<diddledan> yup I understand that concept, but I fail to see how that's different to running a chef recipe to do the same
<ali1234> because the chef recipe that builds a mediawiki cluster and the chef recipe that builds a wordpress cluster are not able to share any code
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it would be possible in puppet
<diddledan> gotcha, so chef is less capable?
<ali1234> they don't handle the VM instancing for you
<MartijnVdS> but "vm instancing" usually comes with lots of other things
<MartijnVdS> provisioning of (at least a basic few) user accounts + authentication
<MartijnVdS> configuration/hardening of basic services (ssh)
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<ali1234> basically if there was only apt, and no distros or repositories that used it, and no debian-installer, and you were expected to provide your own of all of these, that's the difference between puppet/chef and juju
<MartijnVdS> it's a simple recipe, the same for each one, but I don't see those on jujucharms
<ali1234> because the VM instancing is handled in juju, by the plugins for each cloud provider it supports
<diddledan> is seems to me that I had the right idea about juju but misunderstood puppet and chef
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> juju lets you deploy a load balanced website across multiple cloud providers with about 5 commands, without ever having to log in to any of the actual servers
<diddledan> which sounds like what I'd want it to do
<ali1234> well yeah
<AlanBell> juju seems very cool, if what you want to do is exactly what it does
<ali1234> it's great if you need that kind of thing
<ali1234> yes, that's just it
<MartijnVdS> I can't imagine you *never* need to log in somewhere
<ali1234> that's the idea
<diddledan> oh bugger - netsplit
<diddledan> IRC is a pain when it comes to those things
<ali1234> if you want to take it to the extreme you can just requisition a new VM if the old one crashes, and it will be seamlessly integrated into your system
<diddledan> from what you're saying, I'm assuming that juju won't allow multiple charms to install to the same vm?
<ali1234> that is currently not possible
<ali1234> but it is supposedly in development
<diddledan> i.e. say I only want a single vm for a website - juju won't be able to add wordpress+apache+mysql onto the same vm?
<AlanBell> diddledan: exactly, you can't start small
<AlanBell> and you can't migrate from small standard stuff to juju
<diddledan> aah
<AlanBell> you have to start big, with plans for hugeness
<ali1234> you can sort of do it, using in-development hacks :(
<ali1234> but that's harder than just doing it the normal way
<AlanBell> http://www.jorgecastro.org/2013/06/25/the-heart-of-juju-and-easier-charms-with-python-helpers/
<diddledan> There is a "hack" that will allow you to deploy multiple full services to the same machine as the bootstrap node, this has nothing to do with the charm, but it's something that comes up more than once. Use this, of course, at your own risk. At any time the Juju developers may smart up and decide to remove this configuration option from the environments.yaml file. Prior to your first deployment you'll need to add
<diddledan> the following line to your Juju Environments file: placement: local
<diddledan> that's about as close as it gets by the looks
<ali1234> yeah
<diddledan> that doesn't sound "fun"
<ali1234> well, quite
<AlanBell> "So Alan, I expect to have you Juju enabled by the end of the summer, 13.10 tops"
<AlanBell> just for me me me \o/
<ali1234> seems optimistic, we'll see
<AlanBell> I was pestering Jorge quite a bit :)
<ali1234> i have been bugging for this too
<diddledan> AlanBell: I like the quote from yourself on that page - scale down!
<AlanBell> I am a big fan of things scaling down
<AlanBell> that way they scale up too
<MartijnVdS> wb everyone!
<isleofmandan> Anyone here got Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition? I had one beer too many last night and got out the credit card. In the cold light of day, I'm trying to justify.... ;)
<AlanBell> nice one isleofmandan :)
<MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: it's supposed to be amazing :)
<MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: also, do you want my address and a beer? :P
<MartijnVdS> (shipping address)
<diddledan> yeah, in my ideal world I'd want juju to be able to create a single server/vm install and as I need it scale up to n nodes moving data about and poo like that to form a more resiliant cluster
<shauno> I think juju can use containers as a target?  so you could define your environment as containers on a VM, and if you need a second VM, it's a second environment.  a tad messy though
<shauno> it loses the 'elastic' of just being able to 'juju cowbell' when you need moar cowbell.  which is the whole point of all this elastic cloud stuff.  else you're just overpaying for a vps
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I'd settle for "juju --add cowbell"
<diddledan> what do we want? moar cowbell!
<isleofmandan> MartijnVdS: Ah, you've given the right answer. Thanks.
<diddledan> juju --redistribute --add mysql
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> or maybe juju --shard --add mysql
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: mysql :(
<diddledan> yeah
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: if you want to take it to the extreme you can just requisition a new VM if the old one crashes, and it will be seamlessly integrated into your system
<diddledan> I can't cope with postgres - it is foreign to me
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but.. its data!
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: like, the database storage?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: logs (can be sent to a central location)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but mostly database storage, and other persistent things
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: you would have multiple database servers so the new one would automatically replicate from the old one
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but it crashed!
<ali1234> if you don't have several of everything with load balancing, juju probably isn't for you
<ali1234> at least not yet
<MartijnVdS> I don't see how that helps with sharded databases, where every database server has a different part of the full set
<MartijnVdS> or do you mean every shard should have a hot spare or two?
<ali1234> it's not intended that you actually do that
<ali1234> just that you could
<shauno> that's kinda how things need to be built if you're aiming for these "scale 100x on demand" setups.  if its your own little clone army, you can just crank out more clones.  if each and every server has its own personality, you have to hand-rear them
<diddledan> http://awsofa.info/
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I don't see NSA on there?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: that's the obama election campaign setup
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: sure, but still!
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> NSA fits in between the "america" and the "infrastructure"
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> so: top-left just before the route53
<diddledan> what's "asgard" and why did they only have it on their failover systems?
<shauno> it's where they take the hobbits
<MartijnVdS> https://github.com/Netflix/asgard
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's isengard
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS, my Dutch friend.
<Monotoko> freenode is a bit unstable tonight...
<diddledan> it's IRC - it's always unstable
<diddledan> I'm guessing I was on the losing side of a netsplit?
<diddledan> is there a juju channel? I'm playing and getting "error: cannot query old bootstrap state: The request signature we calculated does not match the signature you provided. Check your key and signing method."
<diddledan> allo popey
<Monotoko> riding these splits is terrible
<diddledan> aha, fixed it - my copy+paste of access credentials was missing a single character
<diddledan> indeed, I lose out on the last split
<diddledan> lost*
<ali1234> diddledan: #juju or #ubuntu-juju i forget which
<ali1234> you won't find many people there on a weekend though
<diddledan> ok
<diddledan> thankyou
<diddledan> looks like #juju has loads of nicks present
<ali1234> yea but they are all afk
<diddledan> prolly all away from keyboard though :-p
<daftykins> anyone been tempted by a 'Cubieboard' over a Raspberry pi?
<daftykins> onboard SATA port! D:
<hamitron> hmm
<hamitron> daftykins, I'm not impressed with the r-pi.... feels slower than my K6-2 500mhz machine
<daftykins> really? is that with debian?
<hamitron> comparing slackware with slackware
<daftykins> general terminal and light web browsing use or more advanced?
<daftykins> because that's all i'd use one for, a little tinkering
<hamitron> oh sure, it is fine as a toy
<hamitron> but you can pick up any old pc for tinkering, a lot cheaper
<hamitron> (free)
<daftykins> won't be low power though
<daftykins> i could use my old ultra portable laptop if i wasn't bothered about power i guess
<hamitron> true :) but not as though the power use for tinkering is worth considering
<daftykins> it might compare quite well to the 1.2GHz core solo ULV that's in it XD
<daftykins> the r-pi i mean
<daftykins> maybe i should save my money ;x
<daftykins> well i figured the r-pi could easily be run 24/7 without much issue then
<hamitron> 1.2ghz core solo will whoop the pi
<hamitron> "eat it alive"
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> it has the benefit of having wireless too so i don't have to spend 5 minutes making another network cable ;)
<hamitron> biggest plus of the pi is size, if wanting it for some project I suppose
<daftykins> only VGA out though :(
<daftykins> yeah
<hamitron> daftykins, shame on you for it taking 5 mins
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> hey, those 8 cores are fiddly :>
<daftykins> does seem kinda neat, especially if you get a clear case
<hamitron> suppose
<hamitron> image and size then
<hamitron> are the positives
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> ah i'll have a fiddle with my ol' Sony, she'll be a tad nippier and with 1GB RAM probably do more
<daftykins> than the r-pi
<daftykins> hamitron: thanks for the input :)
<hamitron> but in terms of power use and saving the planet, I suspect the saving is more than offset by the CO2 emissions during manufacture
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-14
<mapps> hey daftykins not bad..you?
<mapps> struggling wth strongswan mind
<diddledan_> morning
<diddledan_> I just watched a terrible tv-movie
<diddledan_> called cybergeddon
<diddledan_> apparently there's a tv series as well
<mapps> hm
<mapps> what did it get/10
<SuperMatt> morning
<Myrtti> uh, anyone have a moment to help with my ALSA DKMS issue?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Shark Awareness Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: is that a prequel to shark week?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, oh, maybe - when's shark week?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: I think that depends on the woman?
 * JamesTait facepalms.
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/UpgradingAlsa/DKMS is confusing
<Myrtti> I don't know which version I should install
<Myrtti> oooherrr! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/supermechanical/range-oven-intelligence-a-brain-for-your-oven-or-g?ref=category
<bashrc> morning
<shadowfax> who's a microserver owner?
<shadowfax> i think i could be persuaded to buy one instead of synology
<popey> i am
<shadowfax> do you know your uidling power usage pls?
<diplo> And me :)
<popey> no
<popey> and measuring mine wouldn't help as it has 5 disks in it
<popey> and isn't the one you can buy these days
<shadowfax> not sure whether to get synology ds213j or a micro with 2 disks
<shadowfax> no cashback on teh hp though :(
<shadowfax> its Â£129 atm
<shadowfax> n54l
<popey> I am tempted to get a newer one to replace the one I have
<diplo> That's close to what I paid with cash back I think
<shadowfax> http://www.ebuyer.com/616877-hp-proliant-microserver-g7-n54l-1p-4gb-u-non-hot-plug-sata-150w-ps-744900-421
<popey> guessing I could just pull the disks out of my current one and slap them in it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<shadowfax> what RAM does it come with?
<popey> thats the old model isnt it?
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/517761-hp-proliant-gen8-g2020t-microserver-712318-421
<shadowfax> what's the new one?
<popey> thats the current one
<shadowfax> yeah big bucks though
<popey> fewer USB ports too
<shadowfax> noticed that people use qpenology which is a synology rebuild
<popey> ooh, red arrows
<ali1234> i too have a microwave
<ali1234> i don't put harddrives in it usually
<ali1234> popey: if you see david cameron today could you throw an egg at him for me pls?
<popey> hah
<shauno_> oh gosh, the new raspberry pi appears to add so much sanity.  finally!
<Gargoyle> What files does "locale-gen en_GB.UTF-8" create? Trying to find some way to add it to an ansible script for my AWS instances.
<mgdm> if you're on debian or similar you can do 'dpkg-reconfigure locales'
<mgdm> I think they end up in /usr/share/i18n/ or somewhere like that
<Gargoyle> mgdm: I only want it running once from ansible.
<mgdm> are you using an off the shelf AMI? I'd build it in if not?
<Gargoyle> Yeah. The default Ubuntu 14.04 one
<mgdm> we've got a fairly custom one in an attempt to cut down the boot time
<Gargoyle> I'll probably settle down and create an AMI a bit later, but at the moment things are changing around a bit, so I like the process of firing up a default instance and then pointing ansible at it.
<mgdm> Sure, makes sense
<mgdm> I can recommend Packer for when you get to that point
<Gargoyle> Nice. Thanks for the tip. :-)
<shadowfax> the n54l comes with 4gb RAM, quite decent
<shadowfax> does anyone run plex on their microserver?
<shadowfax> want to utilise the nas and chromecast.
<Myrtti> we run virtual machines of which one runs plex
<Myrtti> apparently UPnPlay knows how to do Chromecast, nowadays, too
<Myrtti> too bad it's ugly
<Myrtti> (so if you're not disturbed by how ugly UPnPlay is, you don't necessarily need Plex to use Chromecast for your homeserver content)
<shadowfax> so upnplay direct to microserver running ubuntu?
<Myrtti> well, the server would run mediatomb or whatever
<shadowfax> noted
<shadowfax> ta
<Myrtti> UPnPlay is an Android app
<shadowfax> does look ugly
<Myrtti> my issue with Plex is that to use it with your mobile phone you need to buy the plex app. Which isn't a problem for me, I've paid for it and use it, but my sister refuses to put any payment methods on Google Play.
<Myrtti> although, now you can buy stuff from Google Play using Paypal, which is an improvement
<Myrtti> also, mediatomb is open source and arguably easier to install than plex media server, which hasn't had functioning Ubuntu repos for a good while now
<Myrtti> and yes, UPnPlay is UGGGLLLEEH
<brunogirin> Myrtti: plex has a .deb for their media server for Ubuntu that works out of the box on 14.04 (or at least it did when I installed it a few weeks ago)
<Myrtti> brunogirin: yes, but the repository that package might set in place in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/plexmediaserver.list won't work and hasn't worked for a good while.
<Myrtti> brunogirin: so if you want to upgrade it, you have to rinse and repeat that downloading the deb every time.
<Myrtti> in comparison to just apt-get install mediatomb and upgrading it just happens.
<Myrtti> also, "arguably easier to install" --> yay discussion
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<shadowfax> anyone booting from usb on their microserver?
<shadowfax> (ubuntu server)
<shadowfax> new rasppberry pi announced
<shadowfax> well, the b+
<foobarry> i wonder how many people got a shock last night after searching for world cup scorer goatse on the internet
<foobarry> new raspbery pi free from ice cream stall on wesmtinster bridge allegedly
<foobarry> can anyone verify?
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/hashtag/ExtraRaspberry?src=hash
<mgdm> I've seen ac ouple of folk who got them
<awilkins> Alas, they closed the stall at 1330
<foobarry> and moved to twoer bridge
 * awilkins isn't in London
<foobarry> i am
<awilkins> Pah, Londoners, centre of the universe :P
<foobarry> its a big place though
<foobarry> not sure what is actually happening, you buy a raspi and get free ice cream?
<foobarry> or vice versa
<awilkins> You need to know the codeword
<awilkins> Which is "Extra Raspberry"
<diddledan_> extra raspberry
<foobarry> thats it?
<foobarry> i'm off
<foobarry> *may not be off
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qEEd7J3DBo
<diddledan_> honest trailer for minecraft
<foobarry> haha
<ali1234> if it was honest it would mention how buggy the game is
<foobarry> i've still never played it
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67bepA5xlY
<diddledan_> don't you hate when an error message says "contact your system administrator"?
<diddledan_> how is the "system administrator" even if he's not me going to work out what's wrong with that error message?!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> specifically this error message from osx reads "Check the server name or IP address, and then try again. If you continue to have problems, contact your system administrator."
<diddledan_> how useful is that?!
<daftykins> err, well surely it is in context? :)
<diddledan_> no, because the server name or ip address is correct
<Myrtti> yeah I got an error message about alsa-hda-dkms being broken for months, then google returns absolutely nothing on how to fix it other than uninstalling it (which you can do) and reinstalling it (which you can't)
<awilkins> I almost pine for the days when Soundblaster was the standard sound hardware
<awilkins> THe drivers for Linux were easier than the Windows ones
<Myrtti> I'm yet to reboot to see if I've lost sound by uninstalling the package
<Myrtti> I can't figure out how to install an equivalent
<diddledan_> creative actually opensourced some drivers for the x-fi
<diddledan_> then promptly ignored it thereafter
<diddledan_> I don't believe they ever touched it since
<Myrtti> I'll buy the person who figures out which package I need to install to a laptop running 3.13.0-32-generic #56~precise1-Ubuntu using this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/UpgradingAlsa/DKMS as instructions
<Myrtti> a beer
<Myrtti> I accidentally a word
<Myrtti> beer or a beverage of choice
<awilkins> Windows : You can't download the drivers because Creative are trying to hide the face that their different card models are mostly differentiated by firmware
<awilkins> Linux : HELLO, you have a soundblaster, I will scroll some kernel logs with pretty colours and it will work
<awilkins> The ubuntu wiki annoys me a bit
<awilkins> Should be instanced per-release
<awilkins> And pages should only be copied to the new release if they are actually still relevant
<diddledan_> the ubuntu wiki has some way outdated stuff, I agree
<awilkins> Like that page which is talking about packages that don't exist any more!
<diddledan_> Myrtti: do you actually need the updated driver from the oem-audio-hda-daily pakages?
<awilkins> (which don't exist anymore)
<awilkins> (or are in a PPA if they do)
<Myrtti> diddledan_: I don't know, because I haven't dared to reboot yet
<Myrtti> as of now the sound works
<awilkins> Myrtti, The package you uninstalled doesn't exist anymore :-)
<Myrtti> I know it doesn't
<awilkins> Which I presume is why you can't reinstall it
<awilkins> What does lsmod say about hda ?
<awilkins> You probably have snd_hda_intel loaded
<Myrtti> yeah I do
<awilkins> I think they're all standard kernel modules..
<awilkins> Not sure where the files are
<awilkins> Mine are in /lib/modules/3.13.0-30-generic/kernel/sound/pci ... I reckon if you still have things like snd-intel8x0m.ko you're golden
<awilkins> Ah, and snd-hda-intel.ko
<awilkins> The DKMS stuff is just for separate module packages that version independently of the kernel
<awilkins> AFAIK all the out-of-the-box modules are included with each kernel
<awilkins> DKMS for things like proprietary nvidia and VirtualBox device drivers
<diddledan_> why can't I login to my samba shares on a newly installed 14.04?!
<diddledan_> the shares are listed when browsing 127.0.0.1
<mapps> gah
<mapps> fell asleep twice during gang related
<diddledan_> but logging in fails
<diddledan_> (I'm looping back to eliminate ip addressing issues)
<diddledan_> the only log message I can find is  "pam_unix(samba:session): session closed for user nobody"
<daftykins> confirmed with smbclient?
<diddledan_> yes
<diddledan_> it says NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED
<diddledan_> my password is correct
<daftykins> standard \\IP\share ?
<diddledan_> err, I guess?
<daftykins> http://superuser.com/questions/776820/hdparm-does-not-report-a-security-section
<daftykins> gah same issue i have
<awilkins> diddledan_, I always have problems with auth on samba
<awilkins> Did you create the shares to be accessed by existing users?
<diddledan_> I right clicked a folder and selected the network share option
<diddledan_> if that is "create the shares to be accessed by existing users" then yes, I did
<awilkins> diddledan_, I'm not sure if this is right, but my mental model of it is that the Samba password database isn't the same as the system one and isn't synced until the user changes their password
<awilkins> But it always annoys the hell out of me until some kind of random scrabbling fixes it then I forget about it until next time it annoys me
<diddledan_> that's how it used to be, yes, but the ui doesn't indicate anything along those lines
<awilkins> That's why it's annoying
<diddledan_> I click the share option and it creates a share - it doesn't tell me that I can't access it
<diddledan_> it used to prompt you for your password the first time you set it up, I thought
<awilkins> This kind of thing hurt Linux adoption in the enterprise I'm sure...
<diddledan_> indeed
<daftykins> i always use "sudo smbpaswd -u user" to specify one manully
<daftykins> ugh, please excuse my broken keyboard, dropping letters all over the shop =|
<diddledan_> I know why the passwords are different - they require different encryption hashes - but that doesn't explain why when you install ubuntu it doesn't create both considering that it installed samba by default
<diddledan_> and even if it didn't create both at user-add/install time then it should tell you when you set up a share for the first time what you need to do for each user
<awilkins> Hah, probably because libpam-smbpass isn't installed by default
 * awilkins reads about that to see if it's the special magic
<daftykins> diddledan_: before i was under the impression you were connecting to a remote share
<awilkins> " Samba user accounts are separate from system accounts, but the libpam-smbpass package will sync system users and passwords with the Samba user database. "
<diddledan_> daftykins: I was, I changed to connecting to a local share to prove that it's not a networking issue
<daftykins> that's not very clever ;)
<daftykins> if said package isn't on as defult
<diddledan_> it seems completely "stupid" to me to install something by default and provide a ui which then won't ever work without jumping through hidden hoops
<awilkins> Well, likewise
<daftykins> to the bug machine!
<diddledan_> why not just don't install samba at all - it would save space on the download and would require people to read the instructions which can tell about how to get a password set
<diddledan_> OR set the bloo*ing password when the user(s) is/are created
<diddledan_> I'm sure if I filed a bug it would be marked as wont_fix
<diddledan_> or invalid
<awilkins> System devs should probably be forced to work in a Windows network three months of a year
<awilkins> Behind an ISA server proxy
<awilkins> With NTLM auth on
<daftykins> >_<
<awilkins> The `/usr/share/doc/libpam-smbpass/examples/password-migration` from the libpam-smbpass package is illuminating
<daftykins> i was at a place briefly where they ran ISA i think, i asked the immediate kinda boss if there was a way to bypass it temporarily, being in IT - he didn't know.
<awilkins> I loathe it
<awilkins> But now they are changing to Websense which is even worse
<awilkins> It futzes with all the SSL certs
<awilkins> So doing things like cloning from https:// at github makes Git throw a wobbly (rightly) because they are assentially man-in-the-middle attacking us
<daftykins> ugh
<diddledan_> wtf?!
<awilkins> Have resorted with much grumbling to adding their silly internal self-signed x509 cert to the trusted list
<diddledan_> why does anyone think that's a good idea
<awilkins> Because risk management
<awilkins> The result is I now refuse to sign into any personal account for anything from my work laptop
<diddledan_> can you vpn at all?
<foobarry> boot from usb
<foobarry> VM
<awilkins> I may have some kind of arrangement
<awilkins> Hah, I boot my main work machine from an eSATA SSD with Trusty on it
<awilkins> All my productive work occurs on Linux
<diddledan_> http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/dns-tunnelling/
<awilkins> Heh, that's a bit overkill
<awilkins> I might have SSH access. I couldn't possibly comment what I use it for.
<diddledan_> heh
<daftykins> hdparm isn't giving me the security section, seems it's very common to get this "Integrity word not set" error
<mapps> hm
<mapps> so this annoying vpn thingonly happens when usig 3g
<diddledan_> hmm?
<mapps> sec
<mapps> https://forums.openvpn.net/topic16251.html
<mapps> see there ..i included a screenshot too
<mapps> not had any replies on there asked in #openvpn and #openvpn-as no replies
<diddledan_> aah yeah, I remember now that you linked it a few days ago
<mapps> only seems to happen when using the vpn over 3g..but it just seems strange
<mapps> i read openvpn site docs..and it works fine except for 3g ..i cant be the ONLY person using an openvpn vpn over 3g
<mapps> but yet theres nothing anywhere about the issue i get
<diddledan_> it suggests to me that it isn't tearing down the connection properly at "15:07:44 TUN teardown"
<diddledan_> and because it's torn the tun down the device can't access any network because it is configured to send everything through the tunnel
<diddledan_> which no longer exists
<diddledan_> how to fix though I haven't the foggiest :-p
<mapps> :D
<mapps> ive looked everywhere
<mapps> cant find anything
<mapps> watching Sabotage atm...the arnie film:D
<daftykins> D:
<mapps> ive started setting up stongswan..hopefully wont have te same issue using a strngswan vpn over 3g
<mapps> cant see any way to fix the openvpn issue so easiest to switch
<daftykins> why do you even VPN 0o
<mapps> because i want to:D
<mapps> why not
<diddledan_> because NSA
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> SWM 4 NSA fun
<daftykins> mapps: i wondered if it had an actual practical / work purpose
<mapps> ah no
<diddledan_> my workplace has an ovpn network which I was going to sort out connection to via my ipwn
<jpds> mapps: strongSwan works like a charm over my 3G.
<mapps> nice
<mapps> i setup my strongswan but it didnt work:)
<diddledan_> jpds: from your ipwn?
<jpds> diddledan_: android, yep.
<jpds> diddledan_: And laptop over a tether.
<diddledan_> jpds: android != ipwn
<diddledan_> :-p
<jpds> diddledan_: No idea what an ipwn is.
<mapps> jpds https://www.zeitgeist.se/2013/11/22/strongswan-howto-create-your-own-vpn/ have a look at that - does that cover everythng? i followed it and i still couldnt connect (
<mapps> ;(
<diddledan_> jpds: that thing wot apple made
<jpds> mapps: He's doing a lot of Wrong Things.
<daftykins> guides doing things wrong!?
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan_> lol
<mapps> damnit
<diddledan_> was that a â¢
<mapps> i need a good guide :( any suggestions beyond read the dpcs
<diddledan_> ?
<mapps> docs
<jpds> mapps: http://people.canonical.com/~jpds/ipsec/
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> what did you write that for? but how useful for me :D
<jpds> mapps: To increase people's knowledge on IPsec.
<mapps> but i meant was it ome presentation or somethinf
<jpds> It's more of a mini-howto than a presentation.
<jpds> mapps: Should be useful, let me know if anything's unclear or wrong.
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i cant transfer from my barclaycard to current account i dont get why
<mapps> it let me before
<mapps> but yet i can increase my credit online
<mapps> annoying
<diddledan_> have the schools let out for the summer?
<diddledan_> there's a group of yoofs outside doing their damndest to smash all teh glass
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> could be
<popey> some will have
<popey> ours finished last week
<mapps> wish i had all this free time
<mapps> working fulltime is a chore
<mapps> 0% interest on balance transfers till 2015
<mapps> so i dont pay anything seems good
<MartijnVdS> \o/ new Weird Al song
<foobarry> what do you fellows use to backup androidy devices to your nas?
<foobarry> and ladies too are invited
<foobarry> owncloud? any other suggestions?
<MartijnVdS> None?
<foobarry> send to cloud instead?
<foobarry> how would you copy your titanium backup folder from your tablet or your downloads folder to local NAS?
<foobarry> or sync it
<diddledan_> what's a titanium backup folder?
<foobarry> titanium is a way to backup apps+data, very useful
<foobarry> for restores etc
<diddledan_> surely you only need to worry about the data
<diddledan_> apps are all on the play-doh store
<foobarry> mostly yes
<foobarry> apps+data is useful to ensure data and app version are in sync
<foobarry> and also i've had apps disappear from the store e.g. snowman game
<dogmatic69_> this seems like a good bit of code for backing up mysql http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/mysqlscript.htm
<Azelphur> dogmatic69_: I have something that does similar, stores your backups dated, bzipped, and on a per-table per-databases basis, https://github.com/Azelphur/backup_mysql/blob/master/backup_mysql.sh
<dogmatic69_> Azelphur: this one does rotation
<Azelphur> ah, mine doesn't :)
<dogmatic69_> ye, I had a 'home made' script, but got about 10000 backups :D
<dogmatic69_> this one also does per table, gz with dates
<dogmatic69_> and you can configure how many to keep per day, week, month, year
<Azelphur> nice
<dogmatic69_> AlanBell: your chicken cam, is it all custom software you knocked together?
<ali1234> i also have a similar script
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7795693/
<dogmatic69_> lol
<ali1234> rotation is done by another script which is a one liner: find /home/al/backups -maxdepth 1 -iname '*.gz' -mtime +60 -delete
<ali1234> each script is run by cron periodically
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: what is -mtime
<ali1234> modification time
<dogmatic69_> nice
<ali1234> basically that deletes gz files older than 60 days
<dogmatic69_> you will have trouble when you need something from 65 days back :/
<ali1234> yes well you can easily extend this method by having multiple versions of each script with different time periods
<ali1234> i don't bother though because this is mainly in case i accidentally rm -rf the whole website or something
<dogmatic69_> well a couple weeks ago I lots my entire DB, innodb crashed
<dogmatic69_> completely smashed :(
<ali1234> yeah. i would notice in less than 60 days if that happened
<dogmatic69_> ye
<maps|wrk_> hi all
<maps|wrk_> oops didnt know i had this under root
<daftykins> lawl
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-15
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hi
<mapps> 24 finale
<mapps> omg
<mapps> :D
<mapps> just finished watching
<MooDoo> not watched it, so no spoilers :D
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> time for under the dome..new series started too called the strain
<mapps> will watch that later
<MooDoo> mapps: watched that last night, didn't rate it...might give it another try
<DJones> Non operator mobile phone shops must get a hell of a kickback from the operators, same phone, same minutes, texts and data plans are Â£10-Â£15 cheaper using the 3rd party sellers
<awilkins> The biggest thing they make money on is phone insurance I think
<awilkins> My ex ignored my exortation to set a reminder to cancel the insurance on the last phone she bought, I think she's paid out over Â£1,500 for insurance on a phone she's still got
<DJones> Just reading up on why, also looks like they use part of the commission from the operator to keep prices lower
<dogmatic69> awilkins:  a Â£200 phone?
<awilkins> HTC Desire Z, not sure what it cost
<DJones> So I guess that means I'll be upgrading through carphonewarehouse rather than directly with vodafone
<awilkins> But she could have bought quite a few Nexus phones for that money...
<dogmatic69> I have never had phone insurance, been ok so far (~ 15 years)
<Myrtti> doesn't the home owners insurance cover that?
<Myrtti> it does in Finland in most cases
<dogmatic69> Myrtti:  generally not things you carry round, you got to specify them
<Myrtti> s/home owners/home/
<dogmatic69> which makes the price higher
<awilkins> I think mine covers it
<awilkins> But in any case, the savings I've made not buying it more than cover replacement phones
<awilkins> In general I seem to be pretty careful with phones, never had one lost or stolen, only dropped my Razr (and that was fairly durable)
<awilkins> May have dropped my N900 but it's always been in a mild steel framed leather coated case
<dogmatic69> self insure is the way to go if you are not to bad at looking after them
<MooDoo> why is it that when you're working your notice period, everything goes sooooooooooooooo slow
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Gummi Worm Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> oooh, I could go for some gummi worms
<foobarry> jelly snakes
<SuperMatt> Gove has been given more power. I fear for us all.
<JamesTait> The mother of my son's tee partner on Sunday shared a pack with us as we were going round the course.  Seemed like an apt celebration.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> What did Gove get?
<foobarry> jelly snakes
<brobostigon> a kick up the bum.
<awilkins> Chief Whip.
<awilkins> That's like being Francis Uruqhart
<DJones> Next prime minister then?
<foobarry> any of you surrey types ever been to http://www.wingsandwheels.net/ at the top gear circuit in dunsfold? popey ?
<popey> i have been
<popey> was fun
<JamesTait> New job, MooDoo?
<foobarry> popey: recommend it?
<foobarry> is getting to the event ok?
<foobarry> in-laws live in guildford so thinking about taking the boy and father-in-law
<popey> Yeah, it's worth going to if you like cars and planes â»
<foobarry> i like planes
<popey> someone called "Harry Potter" complained about me posting videos of planes on G+ last night
<popey> how odd
<foobarry> they prefer black cats?
<foobarry> i prefer planes although passenger jets bore me
<awilkins> Brooms. He wants to see more brooms.
<foobarry> i was searching microserver and popey.com/blog was link number 5
<popey> heh
<foobarry> popey sounded rather green in 2010 :P
<popey> well, I'm still running the same microserver
<foobarry> i installaed ubuntu! oh noes i did grub on the usb stick! oh yay it works !
<foobarry> :D
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXV24en7emE
<popey> looks like 'fun'
<foobarry> if you don't look back and see how far you've come you aren't learning new stuff.
<popey> how profound
<bashrc> we were all noobs once
<foobarry> are you backing up your android devices to the microserver
<foobarry> i have 3TB drives from different manufacturers :S
<popey> no
<popey> i dont backup android devices
<DJones> Aren't phone backups what the NSA/GCHQ are for
<MartijnVdS> DJones: they're picky about who they share those backups with :|
<DJones> MartijnVdS, I wouldn't worry, they'll get leaked and end up on piratebay
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> How do, hows the holiday going
 * MooDoo wants a holiday
<DJones> MooDoo, Did I see right that you're working your notice period?
<Myrtti> I wonder what kind of temporary insanity lead me to wash yesterdays three machinefuls of laundry with Persil ;________; I put a shirt on that I washed yesterday, on this morning and the smell is doing my head in
<MooDoo> DJones: yes
<DJones> How long have you got and can you say where you're going?
<MooDoo> DJones: 8 days here, and I'm going to work at the health store, it's a wholesaler for health product, i'm sys admin at their head offices
<DJones> Sounds like that'll be quite a change
<MooDoo> DJones: just a tad.
<DJones> :)
<MooDoo> DJones: exciting though, no customers as such just internal ones.
<Myrtti> oh oh oh, talking of health products! I finally found a multivitamin that doesn't have vitamin K in it
<Myrtti> bogstandard Tesco one ;___;
<DJones> Myrtti, Vitamin K.. Potasium? rings a bell anyway, my wife has just been told that her levels of potasium are too high and she's got to cut her vitamin supplements and stop eating bananna's
<Myrtti> DJones: no, the actual vitamin K, the one produced in the colon by bacteria anyway, found also in leafy green vegetables
<Myrtti> assists in blood clotting
<popey> thanks ali1234 ! https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts/5oBTpcSVrTp
<MooDoo> lol
<Myrtti> someone needs to stop me from drooling over saucepans
<Myrtti> http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-saucepan-rocket-scientist-heat-efficient-20140710-story.html
<dwatkins> Myrtti: have a look at furniture instead? That's what I'm doing.
<DJones> Myrtti, Ah, for some reason I had it mind that vitamin K was a potasium rich one
<mgdm> K is the chemical symbol for potassium, which is probably why
<DJones> mgdm, Thats probably what I was thinking about
<dwatkins> ...that pan does look rather nice, though...
<bigcalm> After the cruise, I don't mind if I don't see another drink for a very long time
<bigcalm> Exception being 2nd August
<bigcalm> Otherwise it will be an odd evening
<mgdm> birthday?
<mgdm> or other anniversary?
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<mgdm> oooh
<mgdm> yeah
<bigcalm> :D
<mgdm> I should really go to one of those one day
<MooDoo> might have a spare ticket to the RAT
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlRl5V7lgs4 vulcan hired for private flypast. :-|
<popey> MooDoo: you not coming?
<DJones> I like this, supposedly a real bank robbery caught on film in Detroit https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=679706208756991&set=vb.100001528540358&type=2&theater
<DJones> Although appears to be an advert for a Chevy Malibu
<foobarry> one more microserver question...sorry...is it hardware raid, fakeraid, or you guys just do linux sw raid?
<popey> i do sw raid
<popey> well, â¥ btrfs, so raid-like
<popey> but at that price, it's not real raid
<bigcalm> foobarry: I do sw raid1
<bigcalm> On the microserver
<foobarry> so don't tell the ms anthing, and configure within linux?
<MartijnVdS>  yup
<foobarry> "no, this is not a full raid. Unfortunately this is only a fake raid only supporting raid levels 0 and 1. However it is one of the better implementations."
<MartijnVdS> that's also easiest to recover from if some part dies
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> and also because i may have slightly differing disks
<foobarry> bigcalm: are you botting from disk or usb?
<bigcalm> foobarry: disk
<foobarry> 14.04 contains trim now ?
<bigcalm> ?
<foobarry> trim is not usb though
<foobarry> trim support for wear levelling SSD
<bigcalm> My microserver is 12.04 running 2 x madam raid1
<foobarry> ooo madan
<bigcalm> 4 HDDs, not SSD
<foobarry> think i prefer a usb stick running ubuntu server, then HDDs for data
<foobarry> not sure if good idea or not.
<popey> i have 5 drives in mine
<popey> ssd for root in the optical bay, and 4 drives in the 4 bays
<foobarry> i heard there's a comunity modified bios
<popey> it has an internal USB port so you could put the OS on that
<popey> yes, there is, I'm too scared to install it though
<foobarry> 8gb should be OK for ubuntu server
<bigcalm> popey: you've added an additional SATA port or is it eSATA?
<foobarry> just trying to find what the new bios does
<popey> faster IO i think foobarry
<foobarry> always nice
<popey> and maybe enables PM on the on-board eSATA port
<foobarry> scary though
<popey> bigcalm: i have an extra eSATA card
<foobarry> this is my precious data after all
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> foobarry: off-site backups
<foobarry> glacier
<foobarry> except i'm also planning to do dvd rips
<foobarry> which are too Â£Â£ to backup
<foobarry> but will take me ages
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7798200/ disks in my microserver
<foobarry> a plethora
 * popey plays Light for a bit
 * bigcalm tinkers with FTB
<bigcalm> Why is it always night when I connect to my own server? :(
<foobarry> how do you install onto usb?
<foobarry> i suppose i could get a dvd and choose the usb as the target during install
<foobarry> http://homeservershow.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5752-performance-improvement-on-odd-sata-port-contributed-by-bios-mod/
<DJones> foobarry, 2 usb sticks & 2 usb ports, create liveusb on one, then boot with that stick & install to 2nd stick
<foobarry> heh, so similar method
<foobarry> i thought there was another kung fu way
<brobostigon> a chap on the tv just now, was wearing a tshirt i like, a black tshirt with the following on the front, "if found return to the pub"
<foobarry> how old was he?
<brobostigon> late 30's maybe 40's i suspect.
<popey> http://www.dabs.com/products/crucial-256gb-m550-sata-6gb-s-2-5--7mm--with-9-5mm-adapter--solid-state-drive-99QZ.html?src=3
<popey> "deal of the day"
<popey> 104 quid for 256GB SSD
<foobarry> wow
<SuperMatt> oooh nice
<foobarry> i was just looking at a 32gb one for Â£30
<SuperMatt> still waiting for 500G SDDs and then that's most of my games sorted
<brobostigon> sdd's, have i misssed something? :)
<popey> ooh, A380 goes up in 20 mins
<popey> http://imgur.com/8ytU6Y9
<popey> todays flying schedule
 * SuperMatt glowers at brobostigon 
 * foobarry notices that ebuyer are on quidco
<foobarry> 2% cashback better than a kick in the nads
 * SuperMatt kicks foobarry in the nads to test the theory
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhZl9LjCKuU
<popey> bfq ..
<Azelphur> For anyone who is bored...I'm not sure if this makes me a terrible person: http://blog.azelphur.com/node/297 xD
<foobarry> arrgh ebuyer takes 5 days to deliver :(
<Azelphur> foobarry: they have next day delivery option don't they?
<foobarry> yes but moneys
<foobarry> 12 quid
<Azelphur> indeed
<foobarry> didn't realise until i made the decision and added to basket
<daftykins> i've come up against  complete brick wall with what to do to nuke someones important data from this Kingspec PATA ZIF SSD :/
<daftykins> +a
<foobarry> on the product page it says "order in next few hours to receive tomorrow"
<daftykins> (lso my keybord keeps dropping letters :/ )
<foobarry> then i remembered why i hate eubyer
<popey> Azelphur: i thought you might cross reference which people got all of them right
<popey> Azelphur: i guess you can't?
<daftykins> ebuyer are great \o/
<Azelphur> popey: that's actually a good idea
<Azelphur> popey: sure I can, I have an SQL database full of singles in my area \o/
<popey> perfect partner
<popey> some sql joins required â»
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> you should update the blog post with that data, would be fun
<popey> see the numbers come down
<Azelphur> daftykins: dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/drivetonuke ?
<diplo> Azelphur, did you read about another guy that did that in the states
<diplo> ?
<Azelphur> popey: yea, I was also interested in doing a larger sample size, perhaps scanning a 25m radius of London.
<Azelphur> diplo: yea
<popey> yeah, good call
<foobarry> i also hate quidco for the hoops and hurdles
<daftykins> Azelphur: it would seem due to the nature of dynamic wear levelling in SSDs that you can't get away with dd
<popey> you can if you fill it daftykins
<popey> create a file rather than dd over the device
<daftykins> you certainly can't dd zero though :D
<daftykins> annoyingly this drive appears to lack secure erase
<popey> i would just create a very large file using dev/urandom
<daftykins> also - hdparm doesn't even come up with the 'Security' field on the drive? what's that all about?
<diplo> Azelphur, did you do it with your login details? I believe they scan for people doing that sort of stuff
<daftykins> "hdparm -I /dev/sda"
<Azelphur> diplo: I did, yes
<Azelphur> okcupid seem to be cool with it
<Azelphur> as long as you aren't doing anything nefarious such as mass messaging
<Azelphur> or hammering the crap outta the site (I queried relatively slowly, non-threaded)
<daftykins> ugh i think my USB is dying
<Azelphur> popey: the main interesting thing I learned is that STALE is to STEAL question is a crappy metric of intelligence
<popey> haha
<Azelphur> because so many people fuck it up, even understanding the question
<daftykins> language sir
<Azelphur> sorry :x
<daftykins> it's as bad as IQ tests really isn't it
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, IQ tests aren't so bad because you have a much larger question set
<diplo> yeah I got fed up answering some of the stupid questions
<daftykins> i think it's going to be safer not to give away this machine with this SSD in at all
<mgdm> I was surprised by Amazon's approach to hard drives used on their AWS stuff
<mgdm> Once a hard drive enters a building, it cannot leave unless it's been shredded
<mgdm> For SSDs they basically turn it to dust
<daftykins> i find that wasteful
<daftykins> but then the man hours of nuking disks properly... i can understand
<mgdm> they see it as the only way to guarantee no customer data gets leaked
<mgdm> sure, it's wasteful, and it means they can never RMA a disk, but that's their decision
<daftykins> my old College over here, where i've taught at as well as be a student yada yada - often get donated computers from banks and so on that are doing refreshes
<daftykins> they'll even be getting dual core things in of late which is great for their labs... but pretty much all come diskless
<daftykins> it's a real pain because it leaves them using old ghetto disks to try and run these things
<diplo> We used to do the same at work, either charge them and nuke the disk or tell them to pay us to get a new disk for them
<daftykins> i took a lot of hardware sessions when teaching, i was dealing with disk failure after disk failure :|
<daftykins> diplo: that's not too bad, local electricity company invited them to bring a busload of kids to do the disk nuking recently and let them keep drives :D
<popey> daftykins: why not just write a big file to it?
<diplo> That's one way of doing it
<diplo> popey, in our case just time spent doing it
<daftykins> popey: is this back on the other topic of this SSD i was talking about?
<popey> yeah, i saw 15:15:57 < daftykins> i think it's going to be safer not to give away this machine with this SSD in at all
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> yeah, thing is it's not a modern machine at all
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ls2xfifyc9nk0zp/AADi5v6nyO5ruH0VZedlXH3La
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> looks a bit like my vaio
<MartijnVdS> which is 5-ish years old now I think?
<daftykins> core 2 duo 1.2GHz ULV, 2GB RAM - came with Vista originally (eww)
<popey> should be fine to run a live cd and dd surely?
<daftykins> original drive was one of the Toshiba MK1214GAH iPod style ones
<MartijnVdS> oh wow, at least mine came with 7 :P
<popey> eww
<popey> i still have one of those my desk to recover one day
<daftykins> popey: well i don't dispute that dd would work, but you're not supposed to do that to SSDs... this one doesn't support TRIM too so performance will degrade
<daftykins> bit of a sucky situation
<popey> why shouldn't you do that to SSDs?
<daftykins> because it's all about minimising writes
<popey> dding the whole drive will write to every cell once, surely?
<daftykins> not necessarily
<popey> if you fill it, how would it not?
<foobarry> dd is a rather even write
<foobarry> its heavy writes on the same blocks that are bad surely
<daftykins> well, for one SSDs often overprovision, so there's actually more NAND than the available space of the drive shows
<Azelphur> popey: to answer your question, 37 people answered all 3 questions, only 15 got them all right :P
<daftykins> Azelphur: time to message the 15 ;)
<Azelphur> I thought that number would be way lower
<Azelphur> clearly
<Azelphur> daftykins: amusingly, I recognise most of these names from my high match percentages
<daftykins> so their system works!?
<Azelphur> daftykins: I tested that the other day, I got my best friend to sign up to see what percentage it'd give us
<Azelphur> Answer: 96% match (It's guy loooove)
<Azelphur> obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4L4Uv5rf0 for those who don't get the reference :)
<daftykins> 8D
<foobarry> Azelphur: maybe get your ideal unobtainable woman to think of the questions
<foobarry> you thought of a load of man questions and will just get your own double
<foobarry> similar to the awesome husband quiz on facebook. the quiz is lame because it assumes every woman just wants a mate to go shoe shopping with
<foobarry> also, aren't you intrigued to meet who said the earth was bigger?
<popey> foobarry: http://www.dabs.com/products/synology-ds415play-4-bay-desktop-nas-9LP2.html
<popey> 400 quid nas that does 1080p transcoding
<popey> if that's not "DVD/BD ripper in a box" I don't know what is â»
<DJones> woot...Fibre.....yay
<mapps> yay
<mapps> alright for some
<mapps> im still waiting
<mapps> =[
<mapps> 5 weeks now!
<mapps> YAY
<mapps> 2 days 17th and my fibre gets activated
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> anyone tried kde5?
<foobarry> looks like the kde4 update that was needed
<popey> nope.
<foobarry> shame i've seen 3 articles with the same screenshot
<foobarry> popey: already clicked buy on the N54L..
<foobarry> the synology looks great though out of my budget
<popey> yeah, bit OTT
 * smittix ties MooDoo's laces together
<diddledan> smittix:! that's evil!
<diddledan> but oh so naughtily fun
 * diddledan has a go
<smittix> heh
 * popey is watching http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament
<diddledan> anything interesting, popey ?
<popey> voting on an amendment to DRIP
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I've had a slew of emails about that "emergency" from the EFF or similar people
<diddledan> hmm, and bbc iplayer thinks I'm not in the uk
<popey> bah
<diddledan> this is why geoblockinbg is a Bad Ideaâ¢
<diddledan> love that there's about 5 people there
<diddledan> so much for an "emergency" bill
<foobarry> worst kind of weather is one where you have to take a rainjacket but the rest of the day is s o hot andmuggy that you need to put it ina bag
<foobarry> i think thats the next few days
<foobarry> defrosting the freezer is such a tiresome tasks
<diddledan> ergh
<foobarry> ugh, forgot i hadn't watched the last half hour of "internets own boy"
<foobarry> chromecast ftw
<diddledan> +1
<diddledan> I love my chromecast
<diddledan> best 30Â£ spent in the last year
<foobarry> 2nd best after last fridays chinese takeaway
<foobarry> its not Â£30 for me because i will now finally buy a nas
<foobarry> its chromecasts fault
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah I want a nas
<diddledan> I'm thinking I want a normal pc to do it though rather than an embedded device - like a microserver vs synology
<foobarry> it was a very close call
<foobarry> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378232716/inkcase-plus-e-ink-screen-for-android-phone
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-16
 * popey hugs ali1234 
<ali1234> :)
<popey> I love it, didnt expect that.
 * popey goes to bed, dreaming of riding into conflict on his battlecat
<mapps> urgh
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> moin
<mapps> hey
<Myrtti> lappy didnt boot nicely :-(
<Myrtti> missed the standup
<MooDoo> anyone want to see popey and his new pet? - http://youtu.be/bMhoyyZRO5I
<Myrtti> brilliant
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: just beating you on the irc stats page :D
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> would it be possible, on a watch, for you to put some much pressure on the springbar holding the strap, that the springbar just pops out?
<MooDoo> only if it's a weak spring bar or not properly seated i guess
<brobostigon> well exactly that happened to me last night,
<SuperMatt> then it is possible
<SuperMatt> what kind of mind games are you playing with us?
<brobostigon> the strap that came with my pebble, i managed to get the strap and springbar back in properly, i think.
<ali1234> whats a springbar?
<MooDoo> ali1234: think it's the little bar that connects the strap to the watch
<brobostigon> yep.
<MooDoo> ali1234: normally they have two springy ends you need to push in to connect them to the watch, if they are not seated properly they spring out
<MooDoo> http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc18/gaijinnv/Marathon22MMSpringBars.jpg
<ali1234> i see
<brobostigon> looks like i have seated it back in properly.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Apollo 11 Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<MooDoo> JamesTait: pic.twitter.com/ysjxPVbEC2
<JamesTait> MooDoo, well look at that! :-D
<MooDoo> thought you might like that
<JamesTait> There was something about some dirty great weapon of mass destruction as well, but I thought I'd accentuate the positive....
<foobarry> why would pixel lock and phase be greyed out on my monitor?
<foobarry> they are the ones i want to tweak
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Mng
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm popey
<MooDoo> popey: how's your firebreathing cat taming going? ;)
<popey> :D
<foobarry> rebooted with latest kernel on 12.04 (3.11.23) and no X windows :(
<foobarry> this is like the old days
<foobarry> nvidia driver issues i presume
<foobarry> can i run dpkg-reconfigure on a particular package to get nvidia to reconfig?
<foobarry> (or am i missing a package?)
<popey> where did you get nvidia driver from?
<popey> oh, is this 12.04 or is it really elementary or mint?
<foobarry> i've just done dpkg-reconfigre nvidia-331-updates
<foobarry> hoping it works
<foobarry> repos
<foobarry> the weird thing is that 3.11.0.24 looks installed but not in grub list
<foobarry> odd
<foobarry> about to reboot
<foobarry> :( still broke
<foobarry> have nvidia-common, nvidia-settings and nvidia-331-updates
<foobarry> from standard ubuntu universe
<foobarry> on 12.03
<foobarry> .4
<popey> 3.11.0.24 is a saucy kernel
<foobarry> do i need to install different kernel?
<popey> well, i would expect 14.04 to have 3.13, not 3.11
<popey> which shouldn't need you to do anything, it should already be there
<popey> but as you didn't answer my question, I'm assuming this is elementary or mint, and not actually ubuntu
<foobarry> elementary, runnign on 12.04
<popey> so I would be looking at why I'm running a 12.04 based system with a 13.10 kernel
<popey> i.e. dpkg -l linux-image* and see what kernels you have
<foobarry> i have generic-lts-saucy
<popey> ok, cool.
<bigcalm> ?
<popey> do you have the xorg package to go with that?
<bigcalm> Saucy wasn't an LTS
<popey> correct
<bigcalm> Odd package name
<popey> no
<foobarry> its cos i'm running LTS
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<popey> sorry, i said 14.04 earlier, I looked at the wrong place
<foobarry> gonna try raring , thanks. i hadn't realised i needed to do that
<foobarry> is there a generic-lts-latest?
<foobarry> type pacakge
<bigcalm> I see
 * bigcalm goes back to sleep
<foobarry> which xorg package pls popey ?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack â»
<popey> Anyone wishing to opt into the hardware enablement stack for Precise may do so by installing the linux-generic-lts-<release> and xserver-xorg-lts-<release> packages. For example to install the Quantal hardware enablement packages in Precise, please run the following command:
<popey> sudo apt-get install --install-recommends linux-generic-lts-raring xserver-xorg-lts-raring libgl1-mesa-glx-lts-raring
<MartijnV1S> isn't lts-enablement being deprecated for 12.04?
<popey> looks like the badger
<MartijnV1S> in favor of actually running 14.04
<popey> no
<foobarry> thanks.
<MartijnV1S> I thought I read that somewhere
<popey> well, if by that you mean, "dont run 12.04" then no
<popey> it may be that there's no more enablement packs, sure
<popey> (I may have misunderstood what you said) :D
<MartijnVdS> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-July/000186.html
<MartijnVdS> that :)
<MartijnVdS> On August 7, 2014, the 5th
<MartijnVdS> and final point release for 12.04 (ie. 12.04.5) will deliver the kernel
<MartijnVdS> and graphics stack derived from 14.04. At that time, security updates
<MartijnVdS> and bug fixes for older hardware enablement stacks will no longer be
<MartijnVdS> provided.
<Myrtti> ooh
<Myrtti> I broke my lts 1204 today too
<Myrtti> with newest.kernel
<Myrtti> popey: thanks will have a look
<foobarry> lots of xserver-xorg getting removed
<foobarry> looks more scary when in vty
<popey> nice
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: yeah had to enable the hardware support again, and logging in in tty says mine is supported until 2017
<MartijnVdS> I finally shut down my last 10.04 machine
<MartijnVdS> it couldn't be upgraded because of some compiler flag added in 10.10
<MooDoo> I'm thining of rebuilding my centos server for ubuntu!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> MooDoo: did you say you're not coming to the RAT?
<MooDoo> popey: yes, i don't think i'll be able to make it, it's the week I change jobs...so need to work on that and family a bit.
<popey> aww
<popey> oh, changing jobs!?
<popey> congrats
<MooDoo> popey: i've put my ticket in a secrey place so when I find it, it's going to who ever wants it.
<MooDoo> popey: thanks :D
<popey> where you off to?
<MooDoo> sys admin for the health store, they are a wholesaler for health products, you know the type they sell in holland and barratt!
<popey> gotcha
<MooDoo> canonical kept turning me down ;) lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: They sell health products here?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no lol
<popey> They kept turning me down too â»
<popey> I think I applied for 4 jobs before being offered one.
<Laney> "Air Steward on Canonical One"
<MooDoo> popey: as soon as they advertise tea boy for the Product Strategy team @ canonical, I'm applying :)
<MooDoo> Laney: I'm too tall for that lol
<Laney> pilot?
<NET||abuse> just looking at the raspberry pi b+, anyone know where to get the 4pin audio video jack cable premade?
<Laney> just looked up where the health shop is - you could sneak in a few flights in your lunch break ;-)
<MooDoo> Laney: I could do that, I've played microsoft flight sim, i'm qualified ;)
<MooDoo> Laney: it's bulwell
<Laney> ya, next to hucknall aerodrome
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> I think Canonical One only has Stweardesses
<popey> I think it's some kind of positive discrimination thing ã
<MooDoo> popey: I've been to rocky horror, I can pull off a skirt ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> Ahem.
<MooDoo> lol
<foobarry> :-Z
<foobarry> ok weird. nvidia was working all along, its because i'd changed monitor
<foobarry> "no screens found"
<foobarry> move back to old monitor and it works
<foobarry> although i was working ok with new monitor until reboot
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> it probably looked for a specific model/serial number
<foobarry> the computers have won for today
<MartijnVdS> It doesn't if you unplug a monitor (and plug in a new one) while everything is running
<foobarry> i have work to do
<MartijnVdS> but it DOES on startup
<foobarry> somehow elementary got borken when xserver was instaleld
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: how am i supposed to switch screens?
<foobarry> s/screens/monitors/
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: with a normal graphics card and no xorg.conf, just switch them
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: with nvidia? no idea.
<foobarry> ah, i had a .config/monitors.xml
<Myrtti> popey, foobarry
<Myrtti> I could kiss you both
<Myrtti> thank you
<foobarry> Myrtti: what did i do?
<popey> huh
<Myrtti> you brought your lts graphics problems out
<foobarry> somehow upgrading xserver removed gala window manager :S
<foobarry> spent 2 hrs fixing my problems today
<Myrtti> I tried to get the hardware support extended few days back, thought I rebooted the machine a few times and it worked, and then uninstalled alsa-hda-dkms yesterday, and rebooted this morning, and didn't get past Plymouth
<ali1234> why do people have trouble with graphics?
<ali1234> i haven't seen a black screen since about 2008
<Myrtti> I couldn't work the google up to tell me what to do and I was already doing backups to install LTS 1404 on this against my better judgement
<Myrtti> it's a Dell Latitude E6430 with 1204 LTS preinstalled so I really don't want to reinstall anything on it since I didn't do the initial installing myself and I don't know what new stuff the IT dept did to it between getting it from Dell and giving it to me
<ali1234> sounds like a damn good reason to wipe it and reinstall to me
<Myrtti> well I don't also know what Dell has done to it before shipping it out, either
<MooDoo> Myrtti: everything should just work with dell, I have a E6510 and everything works, the only thing I had to tweak was the wifi file as my wifi LED was blicnking all the time :D
<MooDoo> well I say that, as in, my laptop is ok :)
<Myrtti> but anyway
<Seeker`> argh, graphics is a PITA
<Myrtti> now using popeys instructions installing some packages it works again
<Myrtti> and I don't have to reinstall anything
<Seeker`> my mythtv box always resets to 720x576 when I turn my TV on again
<ali1234> Seeker`: make a VGA2SCART
<Seeker`> ali1234: wut?
<Seeker`> no
<Seeker`> HDMI
<ali1234> lol, you have HDMI and it goes to 576?
<ali1234> that's unpossible
<Seeker`> yes
<Seeker`> pfft
<Seeker`> no it isn't
<ali1234> what are you people doing to your poor computers...
<Seeker`> I can't *stop* it going to 576
<Seeker`> it just ignores me. Even when the nvidia driver says it has chosen 1920x1080 in xorg.0.log it *still* chooses 576
<MartijnVdS> it's nvidia day 8-)
<ali1234> your TV is sending bad modes
<ali1234> tell nvidia to ignore it
<Seeker`> ali1234: nope. It reports that it supports 1920x1080
<Seeker`> I've told it to ignore EDID. It then decides that 800x600 is the right thing to do
<ali1234> yes. you must tell it the modes manually
<Seeker`> I did
<Seeker`> it used to work fine, until my HDD died and I had to reinstall, about a year ago
<Seeker`> new install, got this weird behaviour
<Seeker`> it's not the monitor
<diddledan_> nveeevia day?
<diddledan_> I can't speel
<diddledan_> nveedia day?
<foobarry> the evil monitors.xml as the culprit for me and i never even noticed it before
<foobarry> think it comes when you have 2 monitors
<foobarry> what's the latest nvidia driver anyway?
<foobarry> fromt he repos
<Myrtti> 331 I think
<popey> i have had a corrupt monitors.xml before
<popey> just deleted it and started again
<Myrtti> I'm so incredibly happy I fixed this problem
<foobarry> eww. getting screen corruption
<foobarry> in irssi
<Myrtti> foobarry, popey: seriously, do you have paypal or something, I owe you a drink
<foobarry> i don't think i actually did anything besides break my system and cry on irc
<popey> haha
<Myrtti> foobarry: but you expressed your problem in a way I couldn't do using my phone to IRC with
<Myrtti> in words that made popey find a solution for it that I could understand
<foobarry> Myrtti: you need to learn to receive help freely, as you freely give so much help on freenode :D
<foobarry> where you have helped me many times before
<Myrtti> midwifery is a valuable ... what's the word
<Myrtti> occupation
<Myrtti> foobarry: yeah but this was actually doing my head in
<popey> i would say vocation
<foobarry> which packages did you install? i'm on lts-kernel-trusty now
<Myrtti> and it ruined my morning as I couldn't join the daily standup Hangout
<popey> not occupation
<MooDoo> commodity
<Seeker`> profession?
<Myrtti> that's the word
<popey> \o/
<foobarry> whats the diff between nvidia-331 and nvidia-331-updates?
<awilkins_> -updates has updates to the kernel shims
<Myrtti> the whats
<awilkins> It's a binary driver ; it's provided with an open source adapter that links it to the kernel
<awilkins> That's the "shim"
<awilkins> (I'm not sure what terms the nvidia team use but that's how I think of it)
<awilkins> Does seem to be the accepted term from googling it
<foobarry> so...kde5 anyone?
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<popey> I think you mean Plasma 5.
<popey> They've started getting a bit uppity with people using the wrong terms.
<foobarry> KDE's plasma 5...
<MooDoo> KDE *shiver*
<foobarry> "Nepomuk is gone, Baloo is here"
<MooDoo> I shouldn't say that seeing as i've not used it in years
<foobarry> i still wear teh tshirt though
<foobarry> kubuntu kogs
<foobarry> i heard on UUPC that aseigo gave 200k of his own $$ to the tablet project, ..where did he get all that cash?
<popey> I am not 100% convinced it was $200K of his own cash
<popey> he may well have been measuring time working on the project, I don't know
<popey> he lives in Switzerland, he can't be badly off â»
<MooDoo> wow spotify moving their servers to Ubuntu, that's 5000 ish of them :D
<Myrtti> nice
<MooDoo> http://raphaelhertzog.com/2014/07/16/spotify-migrates-5000-servers-from-debian-to-ubuntu/
<Myrtti> oh.
<awilkins> Wouldn't it just be super for everyone if Debian and Ubuntu got together and made LTS together?
<awilkins> That would address the complaint reflected on that page that Ubuntu only LTS-es the main repo
<funkyHat> awilkins: it wouldn't, because Debian's LTS only covers a subset of packages too.
<popey> discovered http://itch.io/ today
<popey> http://itch.io/games/platform-linux specifically
<popey> http://itch.io/games/platform-linux/price-free
<foobarry> i work with strange people.
<foobarry> bought a box of lollies. not many takers
<MooDoo> nutters
<foobarry> aaaand now i have dropped lolly on my white shirt
<foobarry> they made me feel weird for offering lollies on hottest day of year
<foobarry> they are the weird ones
<foobarry> its like when i bought cakes
<popey> waaaat
<daftykins> D:
<popey> when I worked in an office if you went out and bought a box of lollies they'd be gone in seconds
<foobarry> you'd think so
<foobarry> no rhyme or reason
<MooDoo> they would here where i am currently
<foobarry> just waved away naaah i'm ok
<popey> are they the kind that feel they then owe you?
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> some are not even in my team
<foobarry> i think....gasp....shudder...they miht not like lollies and cakes
<foobarry> 1 is vegan, 1 is milk allergy/intolerant, that leaves others
<daftykins> defective snackers
<foobarry> i made a mistake
<foobarry> forgot to also buy jelly snakes and chocolate
<foobarry> for my drawer of destiny
<foobarry> ebuyer annual revenue is in the 100s of millions :S
<foobarry> must be making tidy profit
<daftykins> they're pretty good, shame that after over 4 website redesigns and constant pestering they still refuse to solve automatic VAT deduction for channel islanders
<foobarry> i have memories of them selling really shoddy gear in the 2000s
<foobarry> very much B grade stock, much of it broken
<daftykins> :S
<foobarry> an acquaintance bought a pc from parts. every part was broken
<daftykins> wow
<foobarry> RAM=bad, mobo=bad, etc ,etc
<popey> daftykins: create a company account, then you don't see VAT listed
<daftykins> the display of VAT is easily done from the top menu
<daftykins> no problem there
<daftykins> but i have to pay it, then ask for it back
<popey> ah
<diddledan_> foobarry, I'll take a lolly
<foobarry> i'll sftp it
<diddledan_> thankya
<daftykins> i should've picked up ice cream at the supermarket >_<
<daftykins> i had qualms of eating more sensibly but... it's so hot
<Myrtti> we bought Solero Mojito lollies few weeks ago
<Myrtti> such a disappointment
<daftykins> that sounds pretty... erk
<Myrtti> it said it had alcohol, but 0.02% doesn't taste much...
<daftykins> i don't like desserts to be ruined by booze
<foobarry> tiramisu?
<Myrtti> daftykins: well it didn't have booze other than for marketing reasons :-|
<Myrtti> I didn't taste the rum at all
<popey> what a busy day!
<popey> I've not even had one cup of tea or coffee yet!
 * foobarry is drawing flowcharst
<daftykins> i've bought some food and done some washing
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> i went outside and video'ed an airbus a380 going over the house
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> very fancy
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SwQfn-TSEc
<popey> surprisingly quiet
<daftykins> omw
<daftykins> it looks kinda frightening, something so large banking like tht :)
<Myrtti> jesus christ
<Myrtti> indeed
<popey> the a380 and the 787 both do ridiculous manouvers at air shows
<popey> the take off looks near vertical
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRKm6PG918
<popey> check out the take off on that
<popey> bear in mind it has no seats, cargo or passengers on board
<daftykins> :D
<popey> the a380 does the same, its bonkers
<daftykins> apparently our government owned airline ordered a plane without realising that you have to specify seats separately :>
<Myrtti> jebus
<Myrtti> I feel like throwing up looking at that
<Dave2> When I was camping at Download we had the world's biggest plane taking off over us. That was fun.
<diplo> Guys if I buy a identical replacement drive for a laptop which is running windows 8.1 and dd the drive can I just dd it straight back onto new one without any issues ?
<DJones> daftykins: That sounds as bad as the French rail company that ordered 2000 new trains costing Â£12.1Bn and then found that they were too wide to fit in over 1000  stations
<Dave2> (Antinov 225)
<Dave2> Antonov, even
<mgdm> diplo: I've done it a couple of times in the past, yeah
<mgdm> diplo: (though that was upgrading to a bigger drive)
<daftykins> diplo it's all about clonezilla
<diplo> yeah thought so.. this has some bad sectors and I very much doubt they've made a back up disk of the orginal
<Myrtti> I might have read Crichton's Airframe too many times
<diplo> Just have a restore partition
<mgdm> Myrtti: oh yes, I've read that a couple of times too
<diplo> daftykins, I was debating clonezilla as well, used it in the past...
<mgdm> diplo: dd_rescue might be useful
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/isbwg5trnc08laf/IMG_20140715_172310.jpg
<daftykins> cloned a mates 40GB SSD to his new 256GB one in 3.5 minutes last night
<diplo> Will give them both a go, just don't know what affect the bad sectors will have
<daftykins> how many are there?
<diplo> Just seeing errors under a live disk, the machine crashes so can't run any checks on the actual disk currently
<diplo> Crashes if I try to run any windows stuff
<daftykins> SMART info would say though
<diplo> God how do people use Windows 8, god awful!
<diplo> yeah did debate about apt-getting it, not installed on the live cd I have in there
<daftykins> with a start menu replacement, but even then... painfully
<diplo> Looking for Offline_uncorrectable in smart ?
<daftykins> that's not a familiar title
<daftykins> just pastebin the lot :>
<foobarry> cloning isn't necessary if you have lvm
<foobarry> add the new disk, then you can remove the old smaller disk, and lvm sorts it
<foobarry> *some details omitted
<daftykins> what possible part of windows 8 laptop made you think of LVM? :)
<foobarry> oh, unlucky
<diplo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7803897/
<foobarry> flowchart finished :D
<diplo> brb
<foobarry> pencil has some cool features
<foobarry> a bit like balsamiq but not really
<foobarry> but has gtk widgets
<foobarry> to pop on your diagram
<daftykins> diplo: it's only reallocations so far so it might clone ok
<diplo> great ta
<foobarry> what's this? openclipart api?
<foobarry> handy
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yxgrza51ndfwjs9/IMG_20140716_163001.jpg
<daftykins> lol.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9t2w3z0qojmw5g/IMG_20140716_164305.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ls2xfifyc9nk0zp/AADi5v6nyO5ruH0VZedlXH3La
<daftykins> that is one tiny machine
<popey> One of my first laptops was a Sony
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subnotebook#mediaviewer/File:Sonyvaiosub1.jpg
<popey> one of them
<daftykins> :)
<mapps> argh
<mapps> my charger keepsfalling out of my laptop
<mapps> so it switches to battery then dies
<mapps> :<
<Laney> glue it in
<mapps> hm wont that damage anything?
<mapps> ive wedged a remote under it atm
<dvrr> Hi everyone.....
<mapps> hey
<mapps> sup
<Myrtti> mapps: get one of those sticker cable things
<Myrtti> http://www.brilliantstore.com/other-iphone-gadgets-xydz-os-hq0011.html like that
<daftykins> well that was hairy, didn't POST for a while... but now back to normal \o/
<mapps> thanks Myrtti
<mapps> sup daftykins
<daftykins> hey mapps
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ls2xfifyc9nk0zp/AADi5v6nyO5ruH0VZedlXH3La
<daftykins> just operated on that.
<daftykins> that was not easy
<mapps> ah
<mapps> what was wrong with it
<mapps> also what spec
<daftykins> nothing, just wanted to work on the temperatures not being ideal
<daftykins> 1.2GHz Core 2 Duo ULV, 2GB RAM
<mapps> ah
<mapps> ULV?
<daftykins> http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2014/06/scenes-from-d-day-then-and-now/100752/
<mapps> man i ove aphex twin
<mapps> love
<daftykins> this is amazing, after the first pic click in the others
<daftykins> ultra low voltage.
<daftykins> Apex Twin \o/
<mapps> yea
<mapps> the best
<mapps> LD
<mapps> :D
<mapps> you like?
<daftykins> ooh yes
<daftykins> from a bit of Selected Ambient Works to the others
<mapps> :D
<mapps> he doesnt play live much
<mapps> seen him live once ..and thats it
<mapps> at warehouse project 3years ag
<mapps> ago
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YUU7EElVhE
<mapps> LOVE everyday and the video's fun too
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> must be off, \o
<foobarry> mapps: try sugru
<foobarry> makes life better.
<foobarry> for your laptop
<mapps> whats that
<foobarry> a mouldable rubber that is permanent when it sets
<foobarry> you can pop a bit on your laptop or charger cable as appropriate
<mapps> and it wont damage things
<mapps> atm ive got the cable in and remote under it ..its basically it works but onlt in a certain position have to move it around etc
<mapps> annoying waking u to find it off
<mapps> :D
<popey> Myrtti: https://twitter.com/sil/status/489530828792549376
<Myrtti> ta
<diddledan> http://all-that-is-interesting.com/facebook-cover-photos
<diddledan> achievement unlocked: cover photo
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-17
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hey
<Myrtti> moin
<MooDoo> wierd
<Myrtti> ooooh updates
<MooDoo> yay nic bonding :)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i get my fibre activated today
<mapps> so sky say
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> mapps: nice, I fixed my sky+ box issue with a forced software upgrade
<MooDoo> davmor2: you'll be pleased to know I've moved my webserver to ubuntu with bonded nics :D
<mapps> well
<mapps> MooDoo- i upgraded 6 weeks ago
<mapps> paid the upgrade fee
<mapps> been a nightmare
<MooDoo> mapps: I only received mine the other day but downloading wasn't working, kept cutting my connection after 2%
<mapps> ive got 2 sky hub routers now...he said to me he was sending me one yesterday
<mapps> and i couldmt be bothered to say i got one 3 weeks ago
<mapps> the whole process has been a joke
<mapps> so i have 2 sky routers but only need 1 obviously
<Myrtti> got some updates for the morning, I wonder if the xorg glitches and freezing was solved by that
<MooDoo> Myrtti: only one way to find out ;)
<Myrtti> well yeah, already did them and rebooted
<Myrtti> no glitches yet
<MooDoo> :)
<Myrtti> that doesn't mean there won't be any
<MooDoo> only time will tell
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Peach Ice Cream Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning and yum
<popey> http://ubuntuismclothing.com/
<bashrc> morning
<bashrc> ubuntuism?
<bashrc> "Ubuntuism is about Motivating, Inspiring and Elevating the Mind"
<bashrc> I quite like this one http://ubuntuismclothing.com/product/force-for-good/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> yay bash rocks
<foobarry> chuck rock
<bigcalm> Chucky egg
<MooDoo> moving my web hosting to my own server and creating a bash script to create all the folders conf files etc is a lot quicker than doing it manually :D
<bigcalm> Automate all the things!
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i only have 14 sites, so it's easier to type ./create_domain test.com and it does everything conf files, edit's the conf a2ensite etc etc :)
<MooDoo> ls /backups/
<MooDoo> oops lol
<TheJoker> hi all,
<popey> hi
<TheJoker> Can someone suggest a desktop countdown timer for ubuntu 14.04?
<TheJoker> similar to this? http://countdown.onlineclock.net/
<Laney> mmm nectarine
<MooDoo> yum
<mapps> yo
<MooDoo> 15k IP ranges blocked - check :)
<foobarry> yay yodel have my parcel
<foobarry> my microserver and disk
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> which micro did you opt for?
<foobarry> n54l cos i'm cheap
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> I hear that
<diddledan> I'd probably have done the same
<bashrc> my current server is a cubieboard 2
<foobarry> i have day off tomorrow. chances are remote that it will come tomorrow
<kvarley-work> I have a VPS running Ubuntu and Apache. There are multiple websites on the server all stored in /srv/exampe-domain.co.uk, etc. I was to allow myself to access all of these subfolders of /srv but ensure that regular users can only access the domains they own. Is using ACL the correct way to achieve this ?
<foobarry> "...f there's anything uplifting I could say (as I moaned a lot) is that you really are trying your best and that's what count"
<foobarry> ^^ not exactly a ringing endorsement for a husband on facebook
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/489799073420283905
<foobarry> maybe aeroplane was shot down :(
<popey> yeah ;S
<daftykins> :/
<mapps> gah
<mapps> speedtest showig download 30mbit
<mapps> im paying for 90
<daftykins> speedtest is an overrated pile, use real world tests
<mapps> a ) due to time of day or b) have sky been useless again and added me to wrong one
<daftykins> should see sync and provision rate on your device, no?
<mapps> ?O_o
<daftykins> get any stats from the router?
<mapps> sec
<mapps> still way cooler than 6mbit
<mapps> hm still stuck with strongswan
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> speaking of which, i should order that new power button for my mates iPhone 4
<daftykins> Â£2.99 cor, pushing the boat out ;)
<popey> hmm, how do i permanently set the locale for my user in a chroot?
<popey> it's returning "POSIX" for my locale
<popey> \o/ fixed
<daftykins> http://static.gotenna.com/
<daftykins> this is clever
<daftykins> you guys won't get it so much, but even coming up to England we get absolutely murdered on roaming fees using mainlander telcos
<Myrtti> ah, atleast this one I understand how it works
<ali1234> yeah i'm not convinced gotenna can actually work
<ali1234> unless the thing is like 8 metres long
<ali1234> seems like it's basically a UHF CB radio, with a bluetooth module to pass audio from the phone
<ali1234> 50 mile range is... optimistic. maybe if you have line of sight.
<zleap> hello
<zleap> trying to help a ubuntu 14.04 user,  upgraded to 14.04 and now desktop just shows wall paper
<ali1234> common problem. make sure the correct video driver is installed
<daftykins> edX's Linux course starts soon :)
<daftykins> https://training.linuxfoundation.org/images/pdfs/Preparing_Your_Computer_for_LFS101x.pdf
<daftykins> they've posted their guide to getting it installed prior to beginning
<dogmatic69_> is it possible to move a file with 'i' set via chattr
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-18
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> ahh cool daftykins that seems neat
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> mapps: sign up! :D it's free
<mapps> daftykins will do!
<Guest83844> morning all
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> another kick....sigh
<mapps> :D
<mapps> setup alt nick?
<MooDoo> nah can't be bothered with that lol
<mapps> lol
<mapps> its like just nick/alt nick in mirc..not much effort;p
<Myrtti> moin
<Myrtti> MooDoo: funnily enough I'm actually hoping that my bot times out so I can file a bug report about it
<mapps> Myrtti whats your bot for
<SuperMatt> morning everyone
<SuperMatt> sleep well?
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt no :)
<SuperMatt> Was Thor grumbling where you were?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: no, poorly son so I slept on the living room floor .... ouch achy achy :)
<diplo> SuperMatt, yup from 12 till 2am
<diplo> Was watching it for ages, amazing stuff
<SuperMatt> I didn't watch, but I listened
<foobarry> is there an easy way to rip a tv series dvd into separate chapters without much manual work?
<foobarry> i'm using handbrake atm
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Mandela Day! :-D
<Myrtti> oooohhhhhhh, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p021syjx
<MooDoo> anyone use vmware on a hp microserver?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<foobarry> MooDoo: some people do.
<bigcalm> MooDoo: no, but I am using virtualbox on mine
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> It doesn't really cope well with more than 0 virtual machines
<MooDoo> bigcalm: ok thanks, just looking at options for a home lab :)
<foobarry> LXC?
<Myrtti> we're using kvm on ours and it runs several just fine
<Myrtti> of course you need to take care not to allocate too much memory on each
<bigcalm> MooDoo: a kvm set-up might work for you if you don't need it to be portable between platforms
<MooDoo> It'll run windows and linux vm's
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I have to do that on my i7 laptop as my microserver really can't cope
<bigcalm> You'll want to put some good resources into whatever box you end up with
<MooDoo> bigcalm: probably a self build :)
<foobarry> the handy thin gis esxi runs on a 2gb (or maybe 4gb ) usb stick
<bigcalm> Build a rack? ;)
<bigcalm> Seperate your windows VMs and use KVM for the Linux ones
<foobarry> buy 5 microservers and paint them orange
<foobarry> and run MAAS
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> Heh
<MooDoo> I'll just save up 7k and buy an orangebox :)
<bigcalm> I've bitten the bullet and ordered a 500GB SSD for my laptop (to replace the 120GB one in it). VMs really do take up a lot of space
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> morning pio
<MooDoo> popey:
<foobarry> o/
<bigcalm> SUp
<foobarry> only couple of hours sleep :(
<foobarry> wifey was tossing and turning till 2am, then the thunder started for 4 hours
<foobarry> sounded like wheely bin grand prix outside
<bigcalm> I don't remember being woken by thunder. But the wind and rain were quite fun
<foobarry> there was crazy lightning at 2am
<bigcalm> Had to close a window to stop the blinds from rattling. Not a nice thing when it's quite warm
<bigcalm> Lucky
<bigcalm> Where are you?
<foobarry> n london
<bigcalm> Ah, far to south
<bigcalm> s/to/too
<Myrtti> I slept like a baby, but only because I found my blackout eye blinds
<Myrtti> and yes we do have blackout curtains too, but it doesn't help if you need to keep the window open to get the air circulating and the light escapes anyway
<MooDoo> blackout curtains....luxury, When I was a lad we had to work at mill and pay mill owner to work there....
<foobarry> baby is obsessed with scratching ht etouhcpa on my laptop
<foobarry> touchpad
<MooDoo> new sensation for them, mine did that all the time on carpets, soft furnishings my beard etc
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> oh man, that world book club episode was brilliant
<bigcalm> Just realised that I didn't greet peeps when I woke up
<Myrtti> just a reminder to everyone: you need to read Sofia's World by Jostein Gaarder.
<MooDoo> bigcalm: that's disgusting
<foobarry> Myrtti: i did when i was about 20
<foobarry> i felt its probably best for younger types
<Myrtti> foobarry: I got three straight full marks on my three philosophy courses partially because of that book
<foobarry> a mere bagatelle sophie
<foobarry> and the solitaire mystery was more of hte same
<foobarry> and alain de bottons rather pretentious books
<bigcalm> Next week I will be replacing the SSDs in my workstation and laptop with much larger ones. What's the easiest way to move the OS and data over?
<Myrtti> rsync, if not dd
<bigcalm> So I need to find a machine with spare SATA ports and dd from one to the other
 * bigcalm looks over at his steamos machine
<bigcalm> Does dd work on a whole drive or do I have to specify partitions?
<bigcalm> That is, can I copy the whole of /dev/sdb to /dev/sdc ?
<diddledan> morning morning
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it should work on a whole drive, if target >= destination
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: surely the other way around?
<MartijnVdS> though you may need to resize the partitions afterwards if the target is bigger
<MartijnVdS> no, target has to be larger than the source, or equal in size
<bigcalm> target and destination are confusing me here :)
<MartijnVdS> so target >= source
<ali1234> target and destination are the same thing lol
 * MartijnVdS facepalms
<MartijnVdS> oops :)
<bigcalm> :)
<foobarry> any suggestions on my handbrake-cli problems?
<foobarry> struggling to episodic dvds to separate files without a tedious process in the GUI
<bigcalm> Workstation is getting 250GB to replace its 60GB. Laptop is getting 500GB to replace its 120GB. All should be well
<foobarry> i have a thomas tank engine dvd with 26 Titles ,and a fireman sam with 1 title and 5 chapters
<Myrtti> uf. thunder and lightning
<MartijnVdS> very very frightening?
<foobarry> me
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: my rational self isn't too frightened but I still want to crawl under the duvet or better yet if SO were home, sit in a car
<popey> bigcalm: I'd use gparted
 * MooDoo is petrified of thunder and lightning :(
<popey> bigcalm: it has a "copy and paste" feature. boot off usb, plug both SATA drives in, copy/paste
<MartijnVdS> it does? Awesomesauce
<bigcalm> popey: perfect, just what I need
<bigcalm> popey: ta
<popey> ya
<popey> the only thing you'll need to do is install a bootloader, but thats easy
<bigcalm> That won't be taken across as well?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Oh
<popey> i used rsync when I did this on my laptop
<bigcalm> An evening next week will be fun then
<foobarry> my laptop is complaining about ripping dvds in this heat
<foobarry> wonder how hot it is
<funkyHat> It's about a million degrees
<MooDoo> I knows your doing bad things lol
<Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyT58M2RqsU
<Gargoyle> When installing a package that provides a service (in /etc/init.d - eg, MySQL) is it possible to have apt not automatically start it or is that down to how the package was build and configured?
<MSEMJEJME> Hello
<mgdm_t> Gargoyle: maybe if you drop something in /etc/default first? That's normally where they're controlled from I think
<bigcalm> ...
<popey> ...
<nigelb> ,,,
<bigcalm> Â·Â·Â·
<MooDoo> '''
<foobarry> ...
<MooDoo> \o/ /o\ C A :)
<ali1234> popey: is euro truck simulator good?
<nigelb> âââ
<foobarry> is there a good app for tagging mp4 files with id3 type info?
<foobarry> i realise the terminology may be wrong there
<popey> ali1234: its a bit dull
<popey> unsurprisingly
<ali1234> how detailed are the maps?
<bigcalm> What about ET2?
<popey> they're truncated
<MSEMJEJME> musicbrainz picard
<popey> not completely accurate
<foobarry> MSEMJEJME: that does video too?
<popey> ali1234: btw my family like the cat pic â»
<foobarry> is there a freedb for vide too?
<MSEMJEJME> not sure about video
<MSEMJEJME> it links to the music brainz database with something like a file hash you can submit new or alternative entries
<MSEMJEJME> also has a shazam type analysis
<ali1234> popey: do you know if they ever added oculus rift support to the linux version?
<ali1234> looks like it only works with directx on windows
<bigcalm> Read that as directhex
<bigcalm> :|
<bigcalm> I was wondering why it only worked for him
<popey> dunno
<ali1234> so far i only found 3 native games where it works
<ali1234> out of 181
<diddledan> why do people with no knowledge of technology and the internet insist on making decisions? http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28331598
<awilkins> diddledan, That's like legislating against someone because they are influential!
<awilkins> "Hey, lots of people trust your opinion..... YOU MUST BE STOPPED!"
<awilkins> Although I wish someone would sue UKIP for having a lot of public visibility
<diddledan> awilkins: exactly
<foobarry> In transitGoole service centre
<foobarry> ^^ does that mean my ebuyer purchase hasn't moved yet?
<diddledan> foobarry: sounds a bit ghostly to me
<popey> sounds like it
<foobarry> DELIVERY DELAYS: Due to the M1 closure at J14 & J15, and a subsequent accident on the diversion route, some of our trailers have been delayed on their way to our local service centres. We are expecting some delivery delays in the following postcodes: CM, CT, E, EN, IG, ME, N, RM, SS, TN.
<foobarry> thats me then
<popey> nice of them to update you
<foobarry> van drivers are back at the depot sucking on a lolly
<popey> finally red arrows landing
<foobarry> yes, although its the yodel page, i didn't get a emai or txt
<popey> been loud for the last hour
<brunogirin> popey: red arrows might be the answer to foobarry's delivery problem
<foobarry> i don;t think yodel actually picked it up form ebuyer yet
<popey> heh
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> you know handbrakes autocrop? does it only remove black borders?
<foobarry> is such a noob at video rippage
<diddledan> I haven't ever tried video ripping
<diddledan> I would need a big thingy if I were to digitise my DVDs
<foobarry> most of our dvds are getting scratched badly
<diddledan> does handbrake utilise gpu-power?
<foobarry> and all of them are offset by one. i.e. wallace and gromit has got the hobbit in , the hobbit case has fireman sam, etc
<foobarry> gnu poewr, dunno about gpu
<foobarry> i have a 200 node HPC cluster which i'd love to use :D
<foobarry> probably not fair use though
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> sorry couldnt cure cancer this year because foobarry had some scratched dvds
<foobarry> its prob more ethical to torrent dvds i own than waste HPC resource
<foobarry> aaron swartz got done for less
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54fDJKgjUrs
<popey> found a cdr from 1998
<popey> full of windows stuff, emulators, roms and one book on linux â»
<awilkins> I remember spending many hours downloading an N64 ROM of Ocarina of Time on a 56k modem
<awilkins> 128! MEGA! bytes!
<diddledan> awilkins: how long did it take?
<awilkins> Days, on and off.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I hated dialup because I used 0800 freeserve (and others) which had a 2hour cut-off
<foobarry> unlimited i hope, rather than pay permin
<Myrtti> ungh. Air-source heat pump would be nice.
<awilkins> I had 2 dialup providers
<foobarry> remember when freeserve became worth more than dixons on account of having a large bank of modems?
<directhex> awilkins, zelda isn't 128MB
<awilkins> One was ClaraNet
<awilkins> One was this dodgy company that provided 0800 dialup (with a 1 hour cutoff) in exchange for your "dividends on the shares you hold"
<awilkins> The owner peed off to Rio with all the money after a few months
<awilkins> But that was a BARGAIN
<foobarry> :S
<diddledan> I remember using RedHotAnt for a while
<foobarry> sounds rude
<diddledan> and x-stream
<diddledan> (also rude)
<diddledan> x-stream didn't work under alternative operating systems tho because they'd cut you off if you weren't running their dialer which displayed a banner on your screen for advertising
<diddledan> the banner couldn't be hidden
<diddledan> it just sat there cycling adverts while you were online
<awilkins> Couldn't be hidden.. without a piece of cardboard!
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> Analog hole pwns you again!
<directhex> remember GetRight?
<diddledan> directhex: do I ever
<directhex> i think i might have a paid license to that
<diddledan> with the 2hour cut-off I needed it to maintain downloads across the barrier
<directhex> yep
<directhex> half-life patches were huge
<directhex> 45MB!
<diddledan> I think I probably downloaded more back then than I do now
<diddledan> because I can now
<diddledan> so I don't feel the need to prove it
<diddledan> like boy-racers and their cars
<diddledan> the smaller the engine the more the boy racer behaves like a pr**k
<awilkins> Heh, GetRight...
<awilkins> Would even download multiple chunks from different servers at the same time
<awilkins> There are still such things (like DownloadThemAll! )
<diddledan> or.. getright
<diddledan> (yes it still exists)
<awilkins> And of course, BitTorrent which is the logical next generation of "thing that downloads things from multiple servers and checks the integrity of chunks"
<diddledan> it's still straight out of the 90s: http://getright.com/
<diddledan> they still claim windows95 support
<diddledan> I read that as "we haven't updated the program since windows 95 was around"
<mapps> 6.2mb/s
<mapps> yay
<diddledan> mapps: whatchoo *loading?
<mapps> tv episodes
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hemlock grov s1 in 720p
<diddledan> wow, I've been silly-productive today
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rpfqi4xz9nxgx5j/AACAxEkpRRGQQnM2Lruz1Sira
<daftykins> totally makes no sense but a clean seems to have stopped keys not working \o/
<diddledan> hmm
<daftykins> das keyboard were very nice, i email'd asking what was up with that - they offered to send me a free key cap puller and discount on buying a new keyboard despite being years out of warranty with my existing
<daftykins> well - only if i were in the US ;)
<gebbione> anyone using virginmedia uk here?
<daftykins> might be quicker to just ask your next question
<mapps> ;]
<gebbione> well i m not sure i can set a dns server on my router from virgin
<gebbione> and it sounds annoying that my machines hostnames are not resolving in the network
<mapps> oh
<gebbione> i added the router as a dns server to the list on my machine but it is not working
<daftykins> local hostnames have nothing to do with ISP DNS
<gebbione> thats why i though adding the router to the list of the dns could have helped
<daftykins> so is your internet connectivity not working either?
<gebbione> it is while i chat with you
<gebbione> the problem is not external sites, is getting my local machines to respond by name rather than remembering ips
<daftykins> what OSs are they all running?
<gebbione> ubuntu, mac, winzoz and some other linux in some boxes like the nas
<daftykins> i gotta be honest - relying upon hostname is relying upon all kinds of junk
<daftykins> i use IPs explicitly. run things i want to host services on with static internal IPs outside the DHCP scope
<daftykins> gebbione: how have you been configuring your DNS IPs?
<gebbione> in network connections ip4 just add DHCP addressess only
<gebbione> then list of dns
<daftykins> good stuff
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> whys my shoutcast server using old ip
<mapps> argh
<gebbione> and added the original ones plus the router ip
<directhex> daftykins, they don't give you a cap puller anyway? corsair do
<daftykins> directhex: i've had this thing over 5 years :>
<daftykins> times have changed a lot in keyboard land
<directhex> true, mechanical keyboards are mundane now
<directhex> i can walk into pc world and have a choice of them
<daftykins> must be novel to have retail options for tech :>
<mapps> woo fixed
<mapps> LD
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> first 5 minutes has an interesting amount of irony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJNxbpbHA-I
<daftykins> diddledan: :D my my, kittens indeed
<popey> http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess= getting closer
 * daftykins plays Jaws theme
<daftykins> i love a good storm over the channel
<foobarry> what is the .ts video format? just a container?
<diddledan> foobarry: that's dvd container
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/3645/how-do-i-convert-ts-files-into-something-useful
<diddledan> which has mpeg2 inside
<foobarry> so no need to convert, hopefully plex et al will play this
<diddledan> it is likely encrypted if it's off a commercial dvd
<diddledan> in which case you'll need libdvdcss or some other way of decrypting it
<foobarry> its a self made file form my pvr
<foobarry> wow obama has gone quite grey in the last couple of years
<foobarry> sky is a spooky colour right now
<foobarry> plex forum confirms it should play
<popey> lightning passing us by http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess=
<diddledan> popey: heading up the east of london?
<popey> looks that way
<diddledan> boo
<diddledan> I want lightning!
<diddledan> we had a corker the other night
<daftykins> transport stream afaik, for .ts
<diddledan> it was about 500 yards away from my guess
<diddledan> it was certianly almost instantaneous flash and boom
<diddledan> and big badaboom
<daftykins> what do you mean by commercial DVD? it shouldn't have .ts if it's an actual film DVD
<foobarry> think we just had lightning
<diddledan> daftykins: sure it should
<foobarry> ...1...2...3...4
<foobarry> baby's'room is 29.7 degrees
<daftykins> diddledan: wat, thems VOBs
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> daftykins: oh yeah, you're right - the folder is video_ts
<diddledan> that's where I got confused
<daftykins> :)
 * daftykins pats diddledan on the shoulder
<diddledan> one ts isn't the same as another
<foobarry> actually my pvr creates a .rec file
<foobarry> which i copy over usb1
<foobarry> then strip off first 60 bytes to make the .ts that it really is
<mgdm_t> TS == Transport Stream == the same container MPEG2 is brodcast over the air on
<foobarry> also, i notice dvd often have title 1 24:45s
<foobarry> and title2 24:44s
<foobarry> but they seem to be the same thing
<foobarry> whats that all about? which title to rip?
<daftykins> duplicate program chains are a method of copy protection
<daftykins> there's no 100% certain way to say, you just have to try it
<foobarry> :(
<diddledan> waa, my watch is batt flattery
<daftykins> but titles with ARCCoS protection won't be readable without shim software like AnyDVD on Windows
<foobarry> eww
 * diddledan wanders off to plop it on the charger
<daftykins> i'm not sure of a Linux equivalent - we're talking titles that dd cannot help with
<foobarry> i wonder how they play on dvd players
<daftykins> well basically, DVD players are dumb enough to go "oh an error, i'll skip on"
<daftykins> whereas a PC (or rather the optical drive firmware) is trying to be a reliable interpreter and error check that read
<foobarry> are there many dvd like tis?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i've had it on new pressings of old titles, new titles... no real rule to it
<foobarry> i remember i had X&Y by coldplay
<daftykins> although it tends to be that Sony Pictures and Disney titles are very common for it
<foobarry> and if you rip it to mp3 then it had nasty errors in
<foobarry> that cd players ignore
<foobarry> but the mp3 had KCCCHHHHHHT
<foobarry> every 20s
<daftykins> amusingly, when Sony first developed this protection, they rendered a lot of their own DVD players as obsolete, promising firmware updates but never releasing
<daftykins> haha, yeah nasty stuff
<daftykins> sometimes it doesn't even pay to be a legitimate consumer
<foobarry> so i never got round to properly getting a rip although i owned the cd
<foobarry> and who listens to cds?
<daftykins> i always buy on CD and rip to FLAC
<daftykins> i do not like this digital future idea of buying a product which is defective by design at the outset
<daftykins> although there is some music that i can buy online in FLAC straight away
<daftykins> nice, open places
<diddledan> the park?
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> with swings and slides and jungle jims?
<daftykins> places such as these are where we enact our free use \o/
<diddledan> or should that be jungle gyms?
<foobarry> dads are viewed suspicously inthose places
<diddledan> foobarry: so are uncles
<foobarry> and wobble boards
<diddledan> apparently it's frowned upon for me to say that a 6year old girl is "cute"
<foobarry> parks are the main place for dads with weekend access
<diddledan> or "pretty"
<foobarry> the problem is when your kids are on the other side of the playground and you are left on your phone browsing the web
<foobarry> Note: Installed Chrome apps do not support the Chromecast. Please use https://plex.tv/web for casting.
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> trying to decipher that message
<daftykins> foobarry: we employed a student a couple of years ago to rip 950+ film DVDs to disk, probably ended up with ~20 that couldn't be done via conventional methods :)
<diddledan> boo, lightning miles away
<diddledan> someone over on the east, can you point your fan out a westerly facing window please to blow it my way?
<gebbione> does rsync automatically remove files from remote ?
<gebbione> if deleted at source?
<mgdm_t> you need the --delete switch, IIRC
<mapps> grmpf
<mapps> still having trouble with strongswan
<mapps> :(
<luas> hi there
<daftykins> hi
<luas> i think that i destryed my pc :P
<daftykins> oh dear! what's up?
<luas> *destroyed
<luas> i tried  to upgrade from ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 and now i cannt login :-/
<daftykins> what did you run?
<luas> i faced some troubles and i run really many commands :p
<luas> and that's why i told you that i destryoed my pc
<daftykins> >_<
<luas> ffff
<daftykins> so right now you can't login graphically, but can you log in at a TTY? e.g. ctrl+alt+f1 should show a login
<luas> yes, i still can get a terminal by pressing ctrl alt f1
<daftykins> so login there
<luas> and i run sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and i got several errors
<luas> and i cant connect to my wifi...
<daftykins> why would you run that? you've already been staring at a login screen :)
<luas> yes but as an error i got failed to start new session
<luas> and i cannt login neither in my account nor in guest account
<daftykins> ok, unfortunately i'm now in the middle of something
<daftykins> ideally you want to look up the .xsession-errors file and see if there's anything in it
<daftykins> also if it's a laptop, get it online temporarily via a cable if you can
<daftykins> #ubuntu will have more active users
<luas> ok
<luas> i ll do it tomorrow.
<luas> today i just want to break it
<luas> lol
<luas> i really thank you
<luas> i ll try tomorrow to find a solution
<luas> :-/
<daftykins> as long as you prepare the above, there should be plenty of assistance
<luas> THANK YOU
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-19
<mapps> yo
<foobarry> morning
<foobarry> so dark and gloomy today
<foobarry> monsoon has just started
<foobarry> Parcel out for delivery Enfield service centre 19th Jul 201408:20
<foobarry> oh wow. glad i didn't pay the exorbitant saturday delivery charge \o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<gebbione> hi
<gebbione> does anacron keep a log somewhere?
<foobarry> tried /var/log/cron ?
<gebbione> going to check
<gebbione> no there isnt
<foobarry> /var/log/cron.log
<foobarry> oh, i'm thinking centos
<foobarry> /var/log/syslog
<foobarry> Jul 19 09:24:25 albatros anacron[10897]: Anacron 2.3 started on 2014-07-19
<gebbione> i have syslog , but it feels a bit generic , should i find there anything the scripts is /etc/cron/daily echo?
<gebbione> mhhh it doesnt look like it has run the scripts i placed there yesterday
<gebbione> and as they should run sometime at night(and the pc was off) i would expect it to run them now that i have switched it on again
<ht20009> hi can anyone help me
<gebbione> so anacron is then a big joke
<gebbione> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anacron/+bug/382315
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 36816 in anacron (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #382315 Anacron doesn't work with suspend/hibernation" [High,Fix released]
<ht20009> hi i was just wondering if anyone could help me obtain some older official cononical ubuntu cds
<gebbione> CDs?
<ht20009> yes the official cds
<gebbione> is it for collection purposes? cant you find the ISO?
<ht20009> yes sorry, i collect the cds :-)
<gebbione> tried ebay?
<ht20009> yes they have many but there is just a few i cant find anywhere, such as ubuntu 9.04 desktop
<ht20009> thank you very much for helping :-)
<foobarry> i had a load, i threw them away
<foobarry> a microserver appears...
<foobarry> most chilled delivery guy ever
<penguin42> perhaps he does icecreams as well?
<foobarry> maybe pina coladas
<foobarry> i get a choice between having a snooze or playing with the new nas
<foobarry> wood cutter simulator on bbc click lol
<foobarry> chatting with kids who play farming sims
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> o/
<gebbione> still stuck trying to understand how to get a good log out of anacron
<gebbione> creating my own within the scripts sounds a really bad way of doing things
<daftykins> oh look, a tumbleweed
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9tzbpd5uh0wrdw6/IMG_20140719_160407.jpg
<daftykins> om nom nom
<penguin42> oooh
<mapps> afternoon
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> uploading 1.7mb/s downloading at 4:D
<mapps> good riddance rubbish old 6mbit adsl
<penguin42> good riddance now you're at 4?
<mapps> mb and mbit
<mapps> 6mbit before..downloading at 6Mb/s
<mapps> 4MB/s
<penguin42> ah yes, and your upload speed?
<mapps> 19mbit max so around 2mb/s?
<mapps> says 1.9Mb/s up atm
<penguin42> you mean 2MByte/s  up? What's that on?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> fttc
<mapps> :D
<mapps> paying for 90/19
<penguin42> oh that's a very pleasent upstream, not found anyone with that before
<daftykins> err, 4MB/sec down is 40Mb odd ;)
<daftykins> that's what i have and get ^
 * penguin42 is on 50Mbps down, 3Mbps up on the lowest virgin cable package
<mapps> whats the up?
<mapps> whats the highest virgin package now? i remember having 512k ntl;p
<mapps> they upgrade people all the time on virgin too iirc
<daftykins> i have 5Mb up, so i tend to see ~580KB/sec tops
 * mapps wins
<mapps> ;[
<daftykins> i dunno, you're paying for 90 and seeing 40 down XD
<daftykins> also correct notation please, Mb and MB :P
<mapps> yes
<mapps> atm
<mapps> but ive had 6-7 down
<penguin42> finding the upstream speed for packages on virgin is very difficult
<mapps> also mr know it all
<mapps> sky said they start it off slower and gradually increase it
<mapps> i guess to check my line can cope with te speed the tests say
<mapps> :D
<penguin42> mapps: I reckon the top package is 152Mbps down, 12Mbps up
<daftykins> that's so iffy, the learning period used to be 2hrs but it starts at max then slowly drops if there are errors, not the other way around XD
<daftykins> 2hrs? 24-48hrs
<mapps> well
<mapps> im telling u what they said!!!
<mapps> :@
<daftykins> dirty liars
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> :D
<mapps> still beats my lame 6mbit
<mapps> when i downloaded on my 6mbit i couldnt do ANYTHING else basically..itd kill my interet heh
<daftykins> yeah, us rock dwellers have had 16 for years on the basic service
<mapps> when did u get 40
<daftykins> when i moved into this place, it'd been out since September of last i think
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> nah hang on... September 2012
<mapps> got 100gig of csi eps queued
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> i'm  on 10Gb/s
<foobarry> actually i'd have to hop servers.  only 1Gb/s on this server
<foobarry> last hop is my ADSL though...sometimes easier to do a train journey with a usb stick..
<mapps> :D
 * penguin42 hands foobarry a pigeon
<daftykins> all this "my connections fiber" is such a crock though
 * foobarry  turns the oven to 180
<mapps> lol
<mapps> i was just saying daftykins i was stuck on rubbish for years
<mapps> and are you gonna say how its actually copper to the home?:P
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> mapps: virgin media ads "our fiber network"
<daftykins> oh wait, we've got coax in all the roads
<mapps> heh
<mapps> btfibre isnt fibre to the house as such
<mapps> fibre to box and copper last leg to our house..no?
<foobarry> fttc = fibre to the cabinet innit?
<mapps> but people probaby think they got fibre in their home
<mapps> yea foobarry
<foobarry> the green cabinet
<mapps> yep
<mapps> but its sold as FIBRE FIBRE FIBRE
<mapps> ;D
<foobarry> then its a wet string
<mapps> yea
<foobarry> although virgin oversold their old cable previously, so fttc is better for virgin customers
<mapps> really?
<foobarry> because they were saturated from cabinet to exchange
<mapps> old cable?i didnt know theyd layedany new cable in years?
<foobarry> exactly
<foobarry> they were massively overselling their networks
<daftykins> are you talking virgin coax network, or their telephone DSL service?
<mapps> ah yea
<mapps> virgin coax
<foobarry> yep coax
<foobarry> they had these routers at the green cabinet that were chock full of customers connections, but in a high density area where the whole road was on virgin,...
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> mmm it did seems to be held together with tape too
<foobarry> the guy would come and switch me between routers, saying the other one was 20x overcapacity
<daftykins> *seem
<penguin42> foobarry: Here I get the listed bandwidth on virgin
<daftykins> haha, nice
<foobarry> but it woud still wouldn't work
<daftykins> yeah in Portsmouth i always got th advertised speeds
<foobarry> the engineer told me not to bother and get another service
<daftykins> damn it keyboard
<foobarry> he also said i wouldn't be able to get digital telly
<foobarry> i still had analogue cable at the time
<penguin42> actually, I get over the listed bandwidth
<foobarry> service varies
<foobarry> and density
<foobarry> but when u see a virgin van in your street...
<penguin42> our vans seem to be named after film characters; there's a virgin van called van Helsing around here
<foobarry> its often the whole street with issues
<foobarry> (in london)
<foobarry> they were just shuffling cards
<penguin42> yeh well it's a shared coax
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> i used to know the network router thing they used
<daftykins> you always see the boxes outside properties with their covers missing too
<mapps> any of u setup strongswan before? still struggling
<daftykins> coax exposed to the elements
<mapps> haha yea
<penguin42> but in the end it's no different to infinity, that's fibre to the cab, so is Virgin, only difference is what comes off it
<foobarry> they are druggie deaddrops
<daftykins> foobarry: ah, cunning
<mapps> lol foobarry
<penguin42> mapps: oh god I've not done ipsec for many years
<foobarry> and vomit filled
<foobarry> mapps: openswan i used to know
<mapps> http://tiebing.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/windows-7-ikev2-error-13806.html?m=1
<foobarry> but its been a wile
<mapps> ive read so much tutorials and docs
<foobarry> ..i see windows..
<mapps> including strongswan wiki
<mapps> yea windows client
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> good luck
<mapps> just having problems
<foobarry> disable all the firewalls
<mapps> i only want to switch due to the openvpn issue=[
<foobarry> haven't been able to get my microserver out the box yet
<foobarry> kids eh
<mapps> what server
<mapps> what u get it for
<foobarry> hp n54l
<foobarry> storing my stuffs
<mapps> :D
<mapps> how much storage
<foobarry> music, video rips, photos, documents
<mapps> running ubuntu/xubuntu or..?
<foobarry> 3TB in RAID1 but it has 4 slots
<foobarry> ubuntu server
<mapps> cool
<foobarry> 14.04
<daftykins> aww a wee baby :D
<foobarry> to encrypt or not encrypt:?
<mapps> yes
<foobarry> the 3TB
<daftykins> are your cat/dog pics that important?
<mapps> thatll be my next job AFTER i fix strongswan
<mapps> ;p
<mapps> so next year
<mapps> heh
<foobarry> the whole fs is not necessary to encrypt
<daftykins> all the users i see come in #ubuntu with broken encryption setups... oh my my.
<foobarry> maybe sensitive stuff on a encrypted bit
<daftykins> passwords.txt?
<penguin42> foobarry: Yes it is
<penguin42> actually, for my home stuff I just encrypt one parttion, for work I do the lot
<foobarry> truecrypt?luks?
<mapps> what do people use to store passwords..and no not your brain;p im sure someone mentioned something for storing passwords and ids etc
<foobarry> keeppassx
<foobarry> with a password and key
<daftykins> pencil and paper
<foobarry> vim -x
<foobarry> keeppassx is pretty user friendly
<foobarry> and offline
<foobarry> daftykins: the potential for losing the whole data scares me
<foobarry> if encrypted
<foobarry> truecrpyt has been soured a bit too
<daftykins> users have done this and come into #ubuntu asking for magical workarounds
<daftykins> yeah, truecrypt seems pretty dead - although i think i heard some claim there are 'good versions' ?
<foobarry> 7.1a
<penguin42> just keeps passwords in text files inside a luks encrypted partition
<foobarry> but there is encfs and luks
<foobarry> think i will encfs private stuff since i dont need to access it unless using laptop
<mapps> what cpu u got in tht hp foobarry
 * daftykins gives mapps more keys to type
<mapps> :D
<mapps> so tired
<mapps> :<
<daftykins> then have a nap, then fire ze missiles
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> i ordered that Â£2.99 new power button cable for my friends iPhone 4
<daftykins> that's going to be some serious surgery.
<mapps> urgh taking apart iphones sucks
<mapps> u got the sucker pad and screwdriver etc
<daftykins> indeed, well i've got the 54-bit screwdriver kit from ifixit
<daftykins> bought it for myself for general computer work etc.
<daftykins> it has pretty much all you need
<daftykins> it seems all these cheap add-ons from ebay come with all manner of cheap tools too though
<mapps> yea
<mapps> true
<daftykins> i suspect they'd be the types that have the driver-shaft infinitely spin in a plastic handle though if you used them for any length of time :D
<daftykins> i should really order one of the spare screw sets at the same time, only about Â£5
<mapps> ah yea
<daftykins> but yeah it's working fine besides the power button
<mapps> cheap rubbish normally
<daftykins> my mate has it modded so repeated presses of the home button power it off
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> i don't want to wipe it and install a clean iOS until power's fixed
<daftykins> else it can't be turned off :D
<DJones> Hmmh, earthquake in Jersey https://twitter.com/Jersey_Met/status/490584391228596224
<daftykins> all the channel islands, sir :)
<daftykins> though the epicentre was 5 miles southwest of them, yep
<daftykins> i myself was out buying lunch at the time - didn't feel a thing
<maps|wrk> hello
<DJones> Heh, don't normally feel them in the uk
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> don't normally get any here either XD
<daftykins> (psst, totally not bias - but Guernsey is better than Jersey)
<Azelphur> phew, 12 hours of volunteer work today \o/
<Azelphur> long day was long
<maps|wrk> what were you doing?
<Azelphur> http://epik.org.uk/ in the morning, National Autistic Society in the evening
<maps|wrk> cool
<Azelphur> indeed, good stuff :)
<maps|wrk> never tried minecraft heard it mentioned plenty
<Azelphur> maps|wrk: it's mostly teaching kids to program by getting them involved in modding games (minecraft)
<Azelphur> and plus I'm around to sorta play spot the prodigy and give them an assist :)
<maps|wrk> ;]
<Azelphur> spotted a 13 year old girl who is learning Python, already did all of the minecraft coursework, and is learning HTML/CSS/website building, put her on my hangouts so she can ping me whenever she gets stuck
<Azelphur> (well, 13 is a guess, somewhere around that)
<maps|wrk> cool..never used hangouts - was that to do with googles experts thing or am i getting mixed up
<Azelphur> maps|wrk: nah, just a chat network.
<dogmatic69> anyone noticed a bug with right click for the 'action menu' results in something being clicked on the submenu instantly
<dogmatic69> before (dont know how far back) right click could not act on the menus, only left click
<dogmatic69> ah, just found bug 320259
<lubotu3> bug 320259 in GTK+ "GDM Context menu needs an option to display on button release" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320259
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-20
<mapps> yo
<SuperMatt> I'm getting a 500 error while going to iplayer
<SuperMatt> ah, it's gone now
<SuperMatt> phew
<SuperMatt> I thought the world was ending
<SuperMatt> oh no, it really is struggling this morning
<foobarry> anyone know of cheap powerline adapters that don't die after one year?
<directhex> iplayer's been down for 2 days here
<Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28388585
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<gebbione> is test -x /usr/sbin/anacron supposed to show/echo a value?
<foobarry> anyone know why i am getting too many authentication failures using password ssh in 14.04 server?
<foobarry> some weird default>
<foobarry> ?
<foobarry> oh, told my client not to do pubkey
<foobarry> weird
<MartijnVdS> but.. pubkey > password security
<MartijnVdS> as long as you're not insane and keep a passphrase on the key
<foobarry> this is first time connection
<foobarry> so keys will come later
<awilkins> Maybe someone cracked the account already, or is brute forcing it
<awilkins> Is this machine visible from teh Internets?
<awilkins> My router fields many, many attempts to crack it on a daily basis (even though it no longer accepts password auth)
 * penguin42 hopes his doesn't have to take any auth from the outside world
<diddledan> morning
 * penguin42 yaaawwwwnnns
 * SuperEngineer smiles - found a cheap portable USB cassette player to put some prize cassettes into mp3
<penguin42> it had better be cheap if it was easier than plugging in an old casette recorder to the audio in
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: it was 9.99 - & old cassette player is slightly u/s [unless you can find me a new drive band for it!]
<SuperEngineer> Â£10 will do me fine
<penguin42> yeh ok for that much
<SuperEngineer> I am honoured that you approve ;)
<diddledan> u/s?
<SuperEngineer> unserviceable
<diddledan> aah, I thought it was "uniquely scrumptious"
<SuperEngineer> a.k.a.. f.. [no SuperEngineer, slap your wrist... you mustn't say that on a family friendly channel]
 * SuperEngineer also celebrates having found cause of several weird & wonderful system errors & x crashes!
<SuperEngineer> last update... linux headers downloaded... no linux image... fired up synaptic...
<SuperEngineer> voila! linux-headers-generic ticked [installed] but linux-image-generic mysteriously unchecked!
<SuperEngineer> dpownload the corresponding image, install linux-image-geric package again... all fixed!  :)
<SuperEngineer> ...& btw, I *hate* working weekends [although some are made easier by silly calls and finding bargain cassetrte usb cassette players
<SuperEngineer> cassetrte usb cassette players?  - y'all know that don't make sense!
<penguin42> yeh, it really doesn't
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> [it first converts a cassetrte into a cassette then it transfers output to pooter - clever huh]
<SuperEngineer> Tech question... the only thing not working since failed restore and forced re-install [previous home partition restored]...
<SuperEngineer> ...is those darn web apps
<SuperEngineer> where should I look?  could there be dirty keys held in seahorse [keyring]?
<nucc1> hi, what TTY has the GUI?
<directhex> 7
<nucc1> hmmm, something's wrong then :)
<SuperEngineer> or to rephrase that - the keys for "Ubuntu Web Account: id 1-1" [& 1-3, 3-1, 3-1]... do these need to be removed?
<nucc1> I was running dist-upgrade moving from 13.10 to 14.04
<nucc1> and it's showing a black screen and the last message on it is "stopping virtual printing daemon: done", not updating.
<nucc1> alt+ctrl+del to the rescue. fingers crossed the box machine still works
<nucc1> :'(
<maps|wrk> :(
<nucc1> the box boots and is reachable on the network, but TTY7 is just a blank screen
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> wfresh install?
<nucc1> yea, just need to scp my data off.
<maps|wrk> blank screen when sshing in is this?
<nucc1> no, ssh is fine. the monitor shows a blank unless i go to a tty other than 7
<nucc1> i can ping google from the device too so the networking is working and i guess everything else
<nucc1> i tried restarting lightdm to no avail
<maps|wrk> probably already checked but checked logfiles for anyclues
<nucc1> where would lightdm log if it failed to start?
<maps|wrk> var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log:
<nucc1> easier to just copy my /home
<nucc1> and install 1404 directly.
<nucc1> got gigabit and a NAS so it's not a big deal.
<maps|wrk> or reinstall the desktop with apt
<nucc1> it said unmet dependencies, then suggested i run: apt-get -f install, which seems to be updating loads of packages, presumably it's resuming the upgrade which failed
<maps|wrk> let it run then
<maps|wrk> :D
<nucc1> gah, some complaints about gnome-settings-daemon-schemas
<nucc1> i'll just go clean install route
<Azelphur> My dad just got a Nexus 4 and stuck a giffgaff sim into it, paid for the Â£12 goodybag, but whatever he does he only seems to get a "G" connection (not 2g or 3g) and can't get any internet access out of it. Any suggestions?
<penguin42> and he's enabled 3g and selected the network off the list?
<Azelphur> penguin42: settings > more > mobile networks > data enabled is enabled
<Azelphur> what do you mean network off the list?
<awilkins> Azelphur, G is 2G
<awilkins> GPRS
<awilkins> H is 3G
<awilkins> E is 2.5
<Azelphur> awilkins: usually it says 2g, on my Nexus iirc it does
<Azelphur> but yea, either way he has no internet access
<awilkins> Azelphur, I have an N4 and it uses the more confusing and annoying acronym names
<Azelphur> fun
<awilkins> The thing about GiffGaff is they sell reserve capacity of o2s network
<daftykins> Azelphur: APN or being stuck on 2G
<penguin42> Azelphur: on my phone I can chose the network
<Azelphur> daftykins: I set all the APN details
 * penguin42 boots his phone
<Azelphur> actually I just had a thought, he's in wales...does that break shit?
<daftykins> yep if he's down in a valley
<awilkins> Wales has lots of mountains and stuff
<Azelphur> nah he's got signal
<penguin42> Azelphur: wth did you have to screw around with apn settings?
<daftykins> likely won't get more than 2G in a valley though mate
<Azelphur> and my mum on a different network has 5 bars of HSDPA, so he's in a reasonably populated area
<Azelphur> penguin42: we followed a youtube video from giffgaff detailing the APN settings
<awilkins> If he has signal the local router might just be borked if he has no network access
<Azelphur> daftykins: he doesn't have any connection at all though, despite it saying 2g, he has no internet access
<penguin42> Azelphur: weird, I've not had to do that in the last 10 years
<awilkins> penguin42, have most of your phones been provider ones?
<daftykins> oh i see
<daftykins> factory reset?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fz006ibpbygcj3y/AACw5Fqaal0DQqRW66-yis8-a
<daftykins> i was in a valley today and got stuck on EDGE
<Azelphur> daftykins: it's a fairly new phone already mostly default
<awilkins> Azelphur, The OS has the APN settings for GiffGaff in it AFAIK
<daftykins> but just look at those prawn sarnies and pint of ale 8D
<penguin42> Azelphur: wireless settings-mobile network settings-network operators ?
<Azelphur> awilkins: yea, by default it was set to O2
<maps|wrk> dafty!
<daftykins> maps o/
<penguin42> awilkins: Well I'm on Cyanogen so I don't think that's relevant
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> 10pm swan fun?
<maps|wrk> or whenever youre free
<Azelphur> and O2 are behind the scenes for giffgaff
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> lol
<awilkins> Azelphur, I don't recall having to do anything scary with it apart from configuring which network it was on... there's also a thing where you can get them to send you a text with the APN settings in that magically sets them for you
<daftykins> yeah hopefully in a bit mate, just relaxing atm
<maps|wrk> cool:D
<daftykins> i've asked in their channel
<daftykins> someone replied at mid-day today after that situ last night XD
<Azelphur> awilkins: yea I thought there was that, I wonder where that is
<awilkins> Azelphur, But network access on GiffGaff has sometimes been a bit patchy for me so if you only just got it set up I might be inclined to see if there were any outages
<Azelphur> perhaps the youtube video was outdated
<Azelphur> awilkins: has been a couple days with issues
<awilkins> Azelphur, That's not atypical. Sometimes they go through a day or so of sending the same SMS message to me 2-5 times
<Azelphur> fun
<awilkins> Although that was cleared with a "manual roam"
<awilkins> Which does sound fun :-)
<awilkins> In general I'm happy with them for a service
<awilkins> I get a 1GB package with tethering for Â£10 a month which I can't complain about
<SuperEngineer> wee-hee - busy copying cassettes to pooter with newly purchased Â£10 usb cassette player
<awilkins> And I can only recall one occasion when the network service failed and left me in a tight spot (couldn't pay for my parking with the phone app)
<awilkins> Compared to Vodafone they are the Super Happy Fun Band
<Azelphur> awilkins: found the number for giffgaff, supposedly SETTINGS to 2020, so checking that out
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: cassette O_O what treasures lie on those? :)
<SuperEngineer> [as to "Windows conversion software supplied" well - errrmmm!
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: Twin Peaks, HHGTTG et al
<awilkins> (Vodafone outright lied to me and sold me a plan with no data after I spent 10 minutes explaining to them that I barely made calls or sent texts but I did need data... and then charged me Â£1 a day every day I used the network. Scummers)
<SuperEngineer> ...it is supplied with acopy of windows program - something called Audacity :D
<awilkins> It was worth the Â£70 residual on my contract just to get the filthy stink of Vodafone's SIM card out of my phone.
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: :D ooooh VHS?
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: not VHS [tho I still have a few vid tapes around awaiting - these are audio
<daftykins> ah right, i'd have found it easier to source elsewhere in superior quality :D
<daftykins> Twin Peaks soundtrack \o/
<SuperEngineer> Twin Peaks = ultimate brain warp = /me
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> time to try this yorkshire tea i bought
<penguin42> eeeh lad
<SuperEngineer> by guum - be a good brew me lad
<SuperEngineer> [though my slightly cooled bottle of beer is better] :D
<SuperEngineer> looks my cassettes are soon to heard in my ears again :D  total cost Â£9.99
<SuperEngineer> oi jpds_ ... make ya mind upo pretty please ;)
<SuperEngineer> [& hi]
<jpds_> SuperEngineer: Oi, it says my nick is unavailable.
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> jpds_: do you have some time for some strongswan fun at all? me and maps were working on it last night
<SuperEngineer> jpds_: idea... change your nick to nick - get your revenge
<jpds_> daftykins: Yep.
<daftykins> jpds_: excellent :D here's what the client log showed - http://paste.ubuntu.com/7822608/
<jpds_> daftykins: You'd have to check what the server says.
<daftykins> jpds_: pretty much identical, it's almost as though we need to specify key type or tell it in the client config to send the certificate?
<jpds_> daftykins: Also, why are you shoving your certs and keys directly in /etc/.
<daftykins> jpds_: basically i put them in /etc/ipsec.d/<folders> to start and kept seeing apparmor messages about DENIED, so wasn't sure if it was being grumpy
<daftykins> i shuffled them about and it made no odds
<jpds_> Well, apparmor says it's sitting in /etc/.
<jpds_> daftykins: Can I see your config?
<daftykins> sure 2 mins
<jpds_> daftykins: The server shoudl say something else in it's logs.
<daftykins> maps|wrk: ^
<daftykins> jpds_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826510/
<maps|wrk> jah
<maps|wrk> ]do i need to show any logs or config
<daftykins> maps|wrk: yeah can you paste some of /var/log/syslog that shows up when i try to connect?
<daftykins> lemme make an attempt so you get fresh logs
<daftykins> in fact on boot mine probably did already
<maps|wrk> oke 2sec
<daftykins> there we go, 20:21:46 attempt
<maps|wrk> gots it
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> more gifts for jpds_  http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826523/
<jpds_> Erm, what does the server's config look like?
<daftykins> line 8 looks like the ticket
<maps|wrk> sec
<maps|wrk> jpds_:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826528/
<maps|wrk> followed the pdf exactly i thought
<jpds_> OK, and you're using a common CA?
<jpds_> I would move the certs and keys to /etc/ipsec.d/{certs,private}/
<jpds_> Just to keep apparmor happy.
<daftykins> will do, certainly made no odds last time
<maps|wrk> so is my end ok jpds_ ?
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Did you give daftykins a key and cert that were signed by your CA?
<daftykins> yip ^
<daftykins> i obtained them from maps and popped them into my folders
<maps|wrk> yep
<diddledan> firewall/router
<daftykins> i'm certainly behind NAT, but maps has his box DMZ'd
<jpds_> daftykins: In your ipsec.conf, can you edit rightsourceip so it has a ',' instead of a ';' ?
<daftykins> wilco
<diddledan> oh, you're both running that same config?
<daftykins> i'm the client, he's the server
<daftykins> jpds_: hang on i don't have that field at all - is that for the server side?
<maps|wrk> rightsourceip should have my IP dafty thought we had that?
<maps|wrk> oh no maybe not
<daftykins> maps|wrk: it's yours that needs the semi colon changed then mate
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Ah, that's for you.
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> so what do i change
<maps|wrk> after 24?
<jpds_> maps|wrk: line 18.
<jpds_> ...of http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826528/
<maps|wrk> done
<maps|wrk> 24,fe3
<maps|wrk> restarted strongswan
<daftykins> ok check your logs, i saw a retransmit this time
<maps|wrk> ok moment
<maps|wrk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826569/
<maps|wrk> same :<
<diddledan> maps|wrk: change left= to your 192 address rather than the hostname which I assume is resolving to a public address
<daftykins> ok and i had differences - http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826580/
<maps|wrk> so
<maps|wrk> left=192.16.0.2
<diddledan> I belive you're missing an 8
<maps|wrk> ah yea
<daftykins> :D
<maps|wrk> but done with the 8
<maps|wrk> :P
<daftykins> reloaded and ready for retry?
<maps|wrk> and restarted again
<maps|wrk> yep
<daftykins> oh hello, lots more this time
<maps|wrk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826598/
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826599/
<daftykins> haha sequential! \o/
<maps|wrk>  10[IKE] IKE_SA deleted
<maps|wrk> Jul 20 20:38:57 frogs charon: 10[CFG] lease 10.0.1.1 by 'C=UK, O=Example Ltd., CN=client' went offline Jul 20 20:38:59 frogs radvd[2523]: attempting to reread config file Jul 20 20:38:59 frogs radvd[2523]: resuming normal operation
<maps|wrk> client went offline hm
<maps|wrk> hahaha yea
<maps|wrk> Jul 20 20:38:57 vaiotz charon: 09[IKE] no trusted ECDSA public key found for 'C=UK, O=Example Ltd., CN=frogs.zapto.org' could that be why
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Think daftykins needs a copy of the ca cert.
<maps|wrk> ah i thought that could be what it is
<daftykins> ooh a third file
<maps|wrk> ok
<maps|wrk> i wasnt sure
<maps|wrk> gwCert.der ?
<maps|wrk> no
<jpds_> Yep.
<maps|wrk> caCert.der ?
<diddledan> make sure the key isn't in it
<maps|wrk> which file :|
<daftykins> gw
<diddledan> caCert.der
<jpds_> maps|wrk: That one.
<daftykins> oh. heh
<daftykins> will i want this one in /etc/ipsec.d/cacerts/ ?
<daftykins> silly question i know :>
<diddledan> yes
<maps|wrk> ok
<maps|wrk> its there now
<maps|wrk> got the url still daftykins ?
<daftykins> errrr
<maps|wrk> https://frogs.zapto.org/~mark/swan/
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> yeah i can make it up from memory
<daftykins> or click that \o/
<maps|wrk> heh
<maps|wrk> if i dont respond say my nick so it flashes my browser :D
<maps|wrk> have to do a bit of work now and again ya know
<maps|wrk> :)
<daftykins> i am connected \o/
<maps|wrk> yay
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> ok let me fiddle with the networking
<daftykins> see what's working
<maps|wrk> jpds_:  can i use this config for a windows7 machine? i read win7 doesnt support ecdsa
<maps|wrk> ah yea check it all works fine good idea
<daftykins> i'm a bit confused as to how this malarkey works now then, i don't get an interface, i don't get any network routes...
<maps|wrk> hmm
<daftykins> "ipsec statusall" tells me i'm 10.0.1.1
<maps|wrk> should you have?
<maps|wrk> i know that with openvpn you get a new interface
<daftykins> i don't have a clue how this setup works :)
<maps|wrk> is everything going through my vpn now or nothing lol
<jpds_> No interfaces with ipsec.
<maps|wrk> jpds_:  what about my windows7 question please:D
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Never used Windows with this before..
<maps|wrk> thanks
<maps|wrk> and iOS?:)
<maps|wrk> or also never
<jpds_> There's: https://wiki.strongswan.org/projects/strongswan/wiki/Win7Config
<maps|wrk> but where would we put the cert/key and cacert:|
<maps|wrk> have to make them into a .p12 ?
<jpds_> daftykins: sudo ip xfrm policy
<jpds_> maps|wrk: https://wiki.strongswan.org/projects/strongswan/wiki/IOS_%28Apple%29
<maps|wrk> ive read all those lots of times :D
<maps|wrk> but where would we put the cert/key and cacert?? am i right about this p12 ..sure i read that
<daftykins> looks like my traffic has definitely changed, as pinging google is dead :D
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Probably, I used this for my android phone: http://danielpocock.com/strongswan-debian-rhel-fedora-with-android-client
<jpds_> daftykins: It's all going via maps|wrk's box.
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7826657/
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Did you put the masquerade rule in/
<daftykins> should i be able to ping an IP at his end? i'm not even sure what that'd be
<daftykins> looks like a no, or maybe the IP forwarding isn't up
<maps|wrk> hmm jpds_  nope didnt do any ipforward or iptables..i thought we wouldnt need to as the box is setup as the DMZ?
<daftykins> as i can't ping 8.8.8.8
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> so i need ipforwarding
<daftykins> maps|wrk: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
<daftykins> 0 or 1?
<maps|wrk> 1
<maps|wrk> mark@frogs:/etc/ipsec.d/cacerts$ cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward                             1                                                                                              mark@frogs:/etc/ipsec.d/cacerts$
<daftykins> cool, just need those iptables masquerade rules then
<jpds_> maps|wrk: you also need the nat masquerade rules in the slides.
<maps|wrk> oh
<maps|wrk> ok 2sec
<maps|wrk> i didnt realise oops
<daftykins> that's a bad maps!
<daftykins> i thought we got to that with the convo last night :>
<maps|wrk> wlan0 then for me not eth0 yea?
<daftykins> if that's your home machines active interface ja
<maps|wrk> done!
<daftykins> holy moly i can ping google now
<daftykins> by IP
<daftykins> and by host
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> plus i have pings consistent with going over via your connection
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<maps|wrk> how cna you tell because the ms is longer?
<daftykins> jpds_: thanks for your assistance :>
<daftykins> yep
<maps|wrk> so whatismyip.com shows my ip?
<daftykins> 60-110 it came up with
<foobarry> hmm. plugged in 2 disks in slots 3 & 4 on my microserver but they appear as sda and sdb. thought they would be sdc and sdd
<jpds_> daftykins: No worries.
<maps|wrk> thanks jpds_
<daftykins> jpds_: would it make more sense for security to use other forms vs ECDSA?
<daftykins> as in would others be better?
<maps|wrk> daftykins: can you fireup ffox and see
<daftykins> foobarry: ah the ol' pesky order switcharoo
<maps|wrk> just wondering if its all going via the vpn
<maps|wrk> i assume so as its not a split tunnel
<foobarry> daftykins: bit nervous about adding disks later
<daftykins> foobarry: you just mount via UUIDs instead of device names though eh
<jpds_> daftykins: That's a question for a crypto expert.
<daftykins> maps|wrk: yeah i'm on the sofa with my laptop SSH'd to the laptop i'm VPN'd via though XD
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> should everything be going via my vpn now jpds_ ?
<daftykins> i tried to be lazy by installing lynx, but for some reason it gave me a 403 on whatismyip.com 0o
<maps|wrk> haha
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Yep.
<maps|wrk> next step is get it working on ios
<maps|wrk> openvpn worked fine except for the issue ive mentioned so many times
<maps|wrk> :<
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Because you have 0.0.0.0/0 as the subnet.
<maps|wrk> and i can use it to watch bbc iplayer when on holiday :DDD
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> well i suppose i'll just have to get up and use a browser
<maps|wrk> lol
<daftykins> yep IP is yours
<maps|wrk> :DDDD
<daftykins> what incriminating activities can i... er i mean hi :D
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> another question
<maps|wrk> is it possible jpds_  or anyone to make the vpn users use a specific http proxy say i run a squid proxy on the same vpn machine could i make them use tyhat
<maps|wrk> just so i coukd control what can be visited through acls
<maps|wrk> couldnt with openvpn
<maps|wrk> probably cant
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Yeah, you'd have to tweak the iptables rules so it REJECTs normal HTTP traffic.
<jpds_> maps|wrk: But it allows traffic to the proxy port.
<maps|wrk> but that would rely on the user manually setting their browser to use the proxy if im understand right?
<maps|wrk> *understanding
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Yep.
<jpds_> maps|wrk: Or.
<jpds_> maps|wrk: You set a masquerade rule so that all port 80 traffic is forced to the proxy port transparently.
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> thanks very much jpds_
<jpds_> No worries.
<maps|wrk> successful day:D
<daftykins> guess i better remove that software / work out how to reconfigure it without autostart 8D
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> isnt it a vmu made just for this]
<maps|wrk> or was it a diff machine i forget
<daftykins> nah i switched to a laptop in the end
<maps|wrk> ah ya
<jpds_> daftykins: Change your auto= config to add.
<daftykins> "auto=add" hmm, ok that doesn't make any sense to me XD
<daftykins> i'd have expected "auto=off" or something :D
<maps|wrk> =]
<maps|wrk> adds it but isnt acive
<daftykins> i remember being in a job where some guy was going to spend thousands on some hardware VPN equipment, i was going to suggest just two old boxes at either end running VPN software
<daftykins> other end being in Monaco
<jpds_> daftykins: And now we have strongswan and two Ubuntu VMs.
<maps|wrk>  :D
<daftykins> >:D
<daftykins> there must be some reason why some would still prefer hardware over that though
<maps|wrk> my machine (frogs) is like  a 12year old dell
<maps|wrk> sounds like a plane taking off at times when you do anything (i linked the sound remember daftykins  :P) but it does the job
 * penguin42 did use a pair of Cisco PIX boxes for one VPN, but that was to somewhere very remote where I wasn't sure if I could ever get anyone to help deal with it and it HAD to work
<maps|wrk> only prob is sometimes have to turnit off at night because its so loud (its in my room)
<daftykins> maps|wrk: oh yeah did you ever get around to investigating that?
<jpds_> daftykins: Lack of knowlegde it exists in my experience.
<maps|wrk> took it all apart and cleaned it out,.absolutely disgusting amounts of dust in it
<maps|wrk> but never managed to figure out what was making it so loud
<awilkins> Bearings?
<maps|wrk> turned the fans off and it wasnt that ..could be the PSU maybe?
<maps|wrk> awilkins:  bearings?
<awilkins> On the fans
<daftykins> in fans
<awilkins> If it makes a noise with no fans on, then it might be coil hum
<awilkins> I had a laptop that started off driving me insane unless I turned the CPU power saving off
<awilkins> THen it started driving me insane all the time. I had the motherboard replaced and that cured it
<awilkins> WAs the power regulation components for the CPU
<maps|wrk> can i check that awilkins ?
<awilkins> maps|wrk, Only checks I can think of that would show that up would be i) doing different workloads and seeing if the noise changes
<daftykins> good ol' EMI
<awilkins> ii) Changing the CPU freq / power saving settings in the BIOS  and seeing if that changes
<daftykins> i had a Dell with a heartbeat, that used to get irritating if wearing headphones
<maps|wrk> yea it does..when its compiling its noisy..idle it hardly is
<awilkins> THere you go
<penguin42> my desktop is starting to have workload dependent noise; very odd - I think after I changed the PSU
<daftykins> penguin42: ah i have that with an Antec PSU :) it tweets under load
<awilkins> If there are "spread spectrum" settings in the BIOS they may help if you enable them
<awilkins> Although they tend to be on by default (turning them off is an overclockers option because it makes your system marginally more stable at the cost of more EMI)
<awilkins> You could test it on another PSU
<awilkins> I've even heard tales of things like blobbing hot glue on coils curing it
<penguin42> daftykins: Weird isn't it
<maps|wrk> spread spectrum setings?
 * penguin42 has never heard the spread spectrum stuff causing audible things
<awilkins> maps|wrk, They smooth some of the timing clock signal curves out a bit
<penguin42> they're hacks to get around some RF emission regulation
<awilkins> Which reduces interference emitted by your computer
<awilkins> as penguin42 says, to comply with American regulations
<penguin42> EU I thought
 * awilkins shrugs
<penguin42> awilkins: Unfortunately it doesn't actually reduce it - it spreads it out
<awilkins> A suggestion I've just seen is using a little paper tube to localize the sound by listening to your motherboard with it...
<penguin42> awilkins: The reg says something like that it shouldn't have any peak of more than a certain amount; so it's spread out over a few frequencies
<awilkins> Anyway ; best hope for a cure is if it's a coil
<awilkins> Where you can glue the loops together (or use paraffin wax, which is apparently what the manufacturers use)
<awilkins> Otherwise... no idea.
<maps|wrk> so what should i do?! take a fan apart?
 * penguin42 doubts it's the fan
<maps|wrk> PSU?
<awilkins> I say do the paper tube trick
<awilkins> Set it compiling and listen to the innards with a paper tube to see where the sound is localized
<maps|wrk> i took the whole thing apart and tried to work out where sound came from and couldnt tell
<awilkins> It's hard with high pitched noises
<awilkins> Hence the tube
<awilkins> Roll up a sheet of A4 into something like a fat pencil and aim it at specific components
<maps|wrk> could it be the PSU?
<awilkins> It could be, there are things in the PSU that can vibrate
<maps|wrk> yea it does make a noise with no fans on i disconnected the fans -0 when yoiu say coils and bearings what would i do?
<awilkins> Bearings are the parts of the fan where the axle meets the mount
<awilkins> So if the noise happens with the fans still, it's not the bearings
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> and the coil?
<awilkins> If it's coils, you could try the hot glue or paraffin wax tricl
<maps|wrk> coils of what tho how do i get to them
<awilkins> The noise will be from the metal coil ringing like a bell
<awilkins> They look like a metal coil!
<awilkins> They're some of the bits that regulate voltage
<awilkins> Which is why the power consumption of the CPU can make them ring / whine / buzz
<awilkins> By making the magnetic field in them fluctuate
<awilkins> If you dampen the vibration the noise may stop
<maps|wrk> is this in the PSU?
<awilkins> I think PSUs have them inside but I've never opened one
<awilkins> You see them on motherboards too
<awilkins> I'd be wary of opening PSUs
<awilkins> They have nasty voltages in them
<maps|wrk> yea they're mad dangerous
<maps|wrk> so what are these coils :D im confused where they are
<awilkins> Not as bad as an old style CRT monitor
<awilkins> But still not good
<awilkins> These things : http://img.techpowerup.org/090218/Coil2.jpg
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> i dont think itll be that i can link to the sound if you want
<maps|wrk> its pretty noisy
<awilkins> Yeah, put the link in
<daftykins> be warned, last time his link finishes playing then quickly starts playing music
<daftykins> ;D
<javo> Hi there. I've got an issue with my 14.04
<daftykins> ask away!
<javo> It was working fine, but lately i've installed an ubuntu-base package, and then I dunno why, lost network, graphic card, and audio
<javo> in the graphics, it doesn't show the intel, that I had, but another... in sound, it says configuration for torpes (?) and no trace of the network
<javo> is there a way to restore it?
<daftykins> what package did you install?
<javo> to come back to a previous state, i-e?
<maps|wrk> torpes?
<javo> Not shure. Just the recomended actualizations it said base-ubuntu
<javo> yep torpes in the sound
<maps|wrk> awilkins:  cant find it atm, the machine i was on about was my old dell desktop..but my old dell laptop (1501) ALSO has a sound issue - it works fine..boots up etc it has xubuntu/.centos on it..BUT has a hideous sound all the time making it unusable
<maps|wrk> https://soundcloud.com/mapito/pc
<maps|wrk> took it apart etc cant figure out what it was with this either, any ideas?
<javo> now i'm accesing the net from a 13.04 system in an extraible device, but also dunno if I can acces the crashed 14.04 from here
<javo> or at least reconfigure the network for doing step by step from there
<javo> da
<javo> daftykins: any suggestion?
<maps|wrk> gah hes gone
<javo> :(
<maps|wrk> ;[
<maps|wrk> could u not reinstall ubuntu base again using apt?
<daftykins> javo: what's your native language?
<javo> daftykins: spanish
<daftykins> tried #ubuntu-es ?
<javo> i'll do it
<javo> thnx
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> couldnt he just reinstall base packafge
<javo> maps: but I have not network access now
<maps|wrk> ahh
<maps|wrk> what about mounting the cd as the apt repo and installing off that@
<javo> explain me that please?
<maps|wrk> moment il find a link
<maps|wrk> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptCdrom
<maps|wrk> i think that could help?
<javo> that way i could reinstall that base package?
<maps|wrk> i think so yea
<maps|wrk> using the cd as an apt source
<javo> I'll try
<maps|wrk> :D
<javo> Thank you!
<maps|wrk> sudo apt-get install --reinstall packagename
<maps|wrk> oh done already?
<maps|wrk> hope it worked:D
<javo> not yet. I must go buy some dvd and burn the image as mine is damaged. :/
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> sudo apt-get -f install sudo dpkg --configure -a - then sudo apt-get install --reinstall
<maps|wrk> let me know if it works after
<javo> of course!
<maps|wrk> ;]
<javo> i am just a bit to changing to fedora for this issue!
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> not used fedora for ages
<maps|wrk> wow, watching channel 5 black market britain..and wow never knew jin ling cigarettes are made in russia..and are only sold illegally
<maps|wrk> cigarettes made to be smuggled lol
<maps|wrk>  It has been reported by customs officials as the "most seized" brand in Europe;[1] in 2007, 258 million Jin Ling cigarettes were seized by authorities in EU countries.[4]!
<maps|wrk> 258 million!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6cc3wo4e9bma4d/Screenshot_2014-07-20-23-39-32.png
<daftykins> O_O
<penguin42> looks a bit cold over there....
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643123 :-)
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> i'm not jealous one bit, i can't cope as it is
<penguin42> indeed, it is a bit warm
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> its horrible sleeping in this hot and sticky weather
<maps|wrk> wakeup a few times each night when its super sticky and humid:(
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> even my cat has stopped sleeping beside me
<penguin42> falling asleep on the top of the bed seems better
<maps|wrk> yea i dont use the duvet or anything, way toooo hot for that
<maps|wrk> cant open my windows either..not on a main road but its a cut through and gets busy enough
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rswy13k3ohu7206/IMG_20140720_122618.jpg
<daftykins> speaking of, she now has her new electronic flap!
<daftykins> and she's too afraid of it to use it either way =|
<maps|wrk> electronic eh!
<maps|wrk> fancy
<daftykins> yeah it's pretty cool, when she sticks her head in the tunnel at the other end it reads her microchip, checks her ID and unlocks for her only
<daftykins> i saw her try... but the click of the mechanism made her run off
<penguin42> perhaps a tasty morsel is needed to get her to try again
<daftykins> i only know her dried food, not sure what would be more tempting
<daftykins> i did get her to go out through it by holding it open
<maps|wrk> thats quite cool microchip this checking her id electric cat flaps
<maps|wrk> when we had a cat there was none of this :D
<daftykins> ^_^
<penguin42> sorry, I've just had a vision of a high security access door where you have to hold your cat up to it to get in
<daftykins> do you mean you have to paws at the door?
<penguin42> ouch
<daftykins> ;D
<maps|wrk> heh
<maps|wrk> http://www.breedersonline.co.uk/photos/1a/2315x_1.jpg
<maps|wrk> thats what i want
<daftykins> that address concerned me
<daftykins> is that some kinda micro breed 0o
<maps|wrk> russian blue kittens!
<maps|wrk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Blue
<directhex> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_(cat)
<maps|wrk> cute
<maps|wrk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_Brown
<directhex> bedtime. earl;y start tomorrow
<maps|wrk> russian blues a re nice
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Blue#mediaviewer/File:RusoAzul4m.JPG
<maps|wrk> meow
<daftykins> directhex: o/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-13
<mapps> yo
<mapps> morning;]
<mapps> 100% humidity
<mapps> says google
<foobarry> http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/mini-ice-age-coming-in-next-fifteen-years-new-model-of-the-suns-cycle-shows-10382400.html
<foobarry> need global warming more than ever!
<philip> ls -l
<foobarry> . .. donkey_pr0n/ Documents/
<nigelb> Password:
<popey> hunter2
<popey> morning
<nigelb> Good Morning popey :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> diddledan: morning head songs updated with saturday sunday and this mornings :)
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Embrace Your Geekness Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> if i were to embrace my geekness more i'd need copper pants to generate electricity when i walked with artifical hip :-)
<foobarry> powerline connectivity improved after removing the special pc powerdown adapter in between
<foobarry> not sure why that never manifested before now
<MooDoo> hello all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I've updated my morning head song playlist :)
<zmoylan-pi> i hope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NemkBVSnUt0 is on it :-p
<popey> yo
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: not yet but I know that song and "I've Never Met a Nice South African"
<davmor2> popey: you're banned you are on holiday
<davmor2> popey: begone and do holidayeee things
<davmor2> :D
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I also know Blobby mr blobby so I'm sure that will creep in at somepoint
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I'm actually adding them each day, I setup an initial list of common/recent songs so there was something of a playlist and now I am adding the song I wake up with daily if it isn't in the list :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
<bigcalm> davmor2: all well?
<popey> davmor2: i am sat with feet in thr pool :)
<davmor2> popey: oh nice
<bigcalm> Release the electric eels!
<popey> haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: laser firing sharks
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how you load the sharks into the laser...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: very small sharks that fit in light beam I'd of though that was obvious tut
<awilkins> Photonic Shark Launcher
<knightwise> morning
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<bigcalm> Who upset the script kiddies?
<zmoylan-pi> who who
<diddledan> o_O
<davmor2> bigcalm: It's the Doctor or the who, never just who ;)
<zmoylan-pi> whom whom? :-p
<brobostigon> the human doctor?
<davmor2> bigcalm: take you pick, yesterday it was the Illinois nazi's but the elwood made them jump off the bridge so today it could be you me, but I would blame JamesTait :)
<bigcalm> http://store.hijinksensue.com/shop/tshirts/grammar-dalek-t-shirt/
<JamesTait> Classic diversion, davmor2. ð
<bashrc> :)
 * brobostigon does the borg warcry in a dalek voice.
<davmor2> JamesTait: well it wasn't going to be them ;)
 * JamesTait points at davmor2, whistles nonchalently.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I suppose it could of been everybody, everybody, everybody....but that would of included them again and they wouldn't like that :)
<diddledan> interesting: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/12/apple_snuggles_closer_to_ipv6/
 * zmoylan-pi doesn't remember a commandment saying thou shalt not abstract... http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/13/man-arrested-charging-iphone-london-overground-train
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I abstract as part of my job. abstraction of interfaces is an important design consideration
<diddledan> zmoylan-1i: (resend) I abstract as part of my job. abstraction of interfaces is an important design consideration
<zmoylan-1i> but do you abstract electricity?
<diddledan> no#
<diddledan> unless. I abstract electricity from my own sockets
<zmoylan-pi> buy the biggest powerbank you can carry and charge it every day at work... :-)
<diddledan> I could carry a UPS?
<zmoylan-pi> no need for something that big.  just a powerbank size of a paper back for charging smart phones would do the trick
<knightwise> hey peepes
<diddledan> ello knight
<diddledan> ello knightwise
<diddledan> silly tabcomplete fial
<knightwise> hey diddledan
 * knightwise is fighting with his bash.rc file
<knightwise> downloaded a script (todo.sh) it's a command line todo manager.
<knightwise> i want to point my path towards it so i can make an alias
<zmoylan-pi> 400 quatloos on the newcomer ::cue trek fighting music::
<knightwise> anyone know what is wrong with this line ?
<knightwise> #PATH=$PATH:"/home/knightwise/Dropbox/todo/"
<knightwise> the todo.sh script is in that folder. path code is correct , right ?
<zmoylan-pi> the # makes it a remark?
<knightwise> i remove that
 * zmoylan-pi goes to look at my bashrc
<knightwise> but for the rest it points to the right place doesnt it ?
<zmoylan-pi> export PATH=$PATH...
<knightwise> ?
<knightwise> so just jam 'export" in there
<zmoylan-pi> that's what i have in my bashrc to add 1-2 locations to the path
<davmor2> knightwise: you don't need the quotes
<knightwise> do i need a space between the :/home..
<knightwise> or : /home ...
<davmor2> knightwise: PATH=$PATH:/home/knightwise/Dropbox/todo/
<knightwise> ok
<diddledan> knightwise: davmor2: I would put quotes around the whole thing: PATH="$PATH:/my/addition"
<diddledan> specifically because you can't guarantee that $PATH hasn't got spaces in it
<zmoylan-pi> mine says 'export PATH=$PATH:~/directoryinhome/' without '
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah it's either all or nothing with bash
<knightwise> loggin out to check
<knightwise> nope ,
<knightwise> hmm.. perhaps i should not park that script in the dropbox file ?
<diddledan> knightwise: run `echo $PATH | pastebinit` to show us what your path looks like
<knightwise> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11873364/
<diddledan> that looks fine
<diddledan> type `todo` and press tab
<diddledan> does it complete to the full name?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> then its just the alias ?
<diddledan> alias?
<knightwise> alias t='./todo.sh -d /home/knightwise/Dropbox/todo/todo.cfg'
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> "./"
<knightwise> aha
<diddledan> you don't want that bit
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> ok , getting rid of that
<knightwise> brb
<diddledan> ./ means run it from the current folder
<diddledan> so typing t will try to run a todo.sh from whatever folder you're in without using the $PAT~H
<knightwise> YEP :)
<knightwise> works!
<diddledan> quiet tonight
<diddledan> I just posted another windows-store feedback. This one being somewhat cosmetic - they've got jupiter ascending the movie listed as directed by Larry Wachowski (in addition to Andy Wachowski) which should obviously be Lana Wachowski.
<mapps> urgh so humdit
<mapps> Gibraltar
<mapps> Tuesday 00:00
<mapps> Mostly Cloudy
<mapps> Mostly Cloudy
<mapps> 22Â°C | Â°F
<mapps> Precipitation: 0%
<mapps> Humidity: 100%
<mapps> Wind: 7 mph
<mapps> TemperaturePrecipitationWind
<mapps> :|
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-14
<diddledan> so just restarted spotify to update it - it looks like the green is somewhat more luminous
<zmoylan-pi> or you're hallucinating from lack of sleep...
<diddledan> that might be true
<zmoylan-pi> this entire irc channel could be a product of your imagination...
<diddledan> :-o
<zmoylan-pi> your minds way of telling you to run with the bulls in pampolona... here take this red t-shirt :-p
<diddledan> that's why startrek uses red shirts!
<zmoylan-pi> space bulls
<knightwise> morning peeps
<diddledan> morning
<Knightwork> morning everyone
<Knightwork> does anyone know if there is a good voice recorder in Ubuntu Touch ?
<diddledan> no idea. I really need to try out touch at some point
<Knightwork> I was thinking about using my ubuntu phone as a podcast player recorder
<Knightwork> maybe popey knows ...
<MooDoo> hello all
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> :-p
<Knightwork> hey MooDoo , diddledan
<Knightwork> any of you hava an ubuntu phone handy ?
<MooDoo> not me sorry
<Knightwork> I would like to check if there is a voice recording app for ubuntu phone
<popey> Knightwork: there is
<Knightwork> popey: Wicked !
<popey> Knightwork: only does very short duration
<popey> notnpodcast size
<Knightwork> is it the one that only records for 30 seconds or can you do some longer recordings?
<Knightwork> damn :( I was afraid of that
<popey> it could be modified probably
<popey> victorp: made it
<popey> he knows morr
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon popey
<brobostigon> morning popey and MooDoo
<foobarry> isn't popey on holiday?
<popey> he is
<brobostigon> shame about the weather.
<foobarry> he really knows how to holiday
<brobostigon> hanging out on irc.
<popey> yeah. 35 degrees or so
<popey> just waiting for family to finish getting ready
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> the irc family
<popey> then off out
<foobarry> hard day by the pool
<popey> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> since having kids i've never had a day by the pool
<popey> doing it wrong :)
<davmor2> Gangstas Paradise Added to the playlist this morning :)
<brobostigon> kindle, cocktail, lounging on the beach.
<davmor2> popey: no he means he is banned from all the pools for trying to drown them
<bashrc> good moaning
<foobarry> don't think i've seen a pool in fact
<foobarry> except a rock pool
<brobostigon> the closest i have been to a pool recently, was a couple of weeks ago, my gf and her son, going swimming at our local pool.
<popey> \o/ everyone ready. off out. l8r...
<diddledan> tata
<brobostigon> o/
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka, 'ow am ya?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm good thanks :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning head songs updated :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm listening to your SynthPop playlist
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's an album
<MooDoo> yeah i'm still listening to that :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Pandemonium Day! ð
<diddledan> JamesTait: that sounds like it could be hectic
 * davmor2 goes to JamesTait 's Winds his kids up to Hyper Level and waves bye to JamesTait 
<JamesTait> davmor2, I wouldn't notice the difference.
 * davmor2 invites 200 other kids to JamesTait 's
 * JamesTait tells the cleaner if any kids turn up she's to direct them to the park at the top of the street.
<foobarry> we had to stop our cleaner coming
<foobarry> austerity bites
<diddledan> manifoldjs.com sounds interesting
<brobostigon> isnt that what husbands and bf's are for, cleaning. lolz.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm telling your wife you call her "our cleaner" lets see what chaos that causes ;)
<diddledan> I wonder if there's any chance of getting ubuntu as a supported target
<JamesTait> foobarry, it's a one-time luxury, my wife's been working a lot lately.
<JamesTait> davmor2, she'd probably say "Ooh, I got a promotion!" ð
<diddledan> is nasa doing a livestream today?
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahahahaha
<diplo> popey: I've started using Suspend tab thing you've mentioned, do you use any of the excludes as they don't appear to work for me ?
<diplo> Ah just read up, gone out :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I got it,  /me turns off JamesTait 's internet connection, now watch mayhem as the air turns black
<JamesTait> Hah! âº  Yeah, that'd do it.
<foobarry> diplo: i used it for a while, the exlcudes worked for me
<diplo> Hmm, I'll try and work what I've done wrong then, thanks foobarry
<diddledan> looks like nasa will be live at 12:30(BST)
<foobarry> i stopped using it as it exacerbated my problem. YMMV but i am trying firefox isntead
<brobostigon> its a record for me, been with my gf for ten months in two weeks time.
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> well done! :-D
<brobostigon> :)
 * diddledan jelly
<foobarry> ice cream
<brobostigon> sprinkles
<diddledan> foobarry: drown my sorrows with ice cream, eh? that sounds like a plan
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> anyone actively using irssi proxy ?
<davmor2> Morning bigcalm
<davmor2> foobarry: yes
<foobarry> work OK? easy to setup?
<davmor2> foobarry: bigcalm too I think
<foobarry> do notifications get carried across?
<foobarry> using irssi notify?
<bigcalm> foobarry: I is, yes
<davmor2> foobarry: works fine and it is a doddle to setup
<bigcalm> foobarry: it's just like being connected directly to an irc server. Everything passes through
<davmor2> foobarry: no this is the thing that popey keeps on about
<bigcalm> foobarry: I also use awayproxy.pl - it emails me if I'm mentioned or messages when I'm not connected to the proxy
<davmor2> foobarry: you would need to run irssi locally and point that at the proxy and have irssi notify on the local box
<foobarry> ok
<foobarry> i see
<foobarry> ta
<davmor2> foobarry: however you can have plugins for auto away and emails sent to you for when you get pings etc
<bigcalm> I just said that!
<foobarry> i think the notifications are probalby most useful on my work PC when i'm multitasking anyway, which is where my irc runs too
<foobarry> so i think i will stick to ssh -> screen -d -r
<foobarry> when i'm elsewhere
<foobarry> pluto just gained 73 miles diameter
<diddledan> o_O
<foobarry> Mission scientists say it is 1,473 miles in diameter, somewhat larger than many prior estimates of 1,400 miles.
<victorp> popey, it would be easier to make a new one
<victorp> popey, code --> https://code.launchpad.net/~vtuson/+junk/snaprecorder
<diddledan> the data from new horizons will take till november 2016 to fully downlink
<zmoylan-pi> all those nasa engineers using netflix and downloading cat videos... :-p
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> they bounce netflix off pluto?
<zmoylan-pi> it gets around the geo ip :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> the geoip reports "earth"
<zmoylan-pi> 'earth:mostly harmless' i think you'll find
<diddledan> unless they vpn it in which case maybe "sol system"
<diddledan> apparently the downlink maxxes out at 4Kbit/s
<zmoylan-pi> they should bounce terry pratchetts x-clacks-overhead off it
<diddledan> GNU
<diddledan> rockets are awesome
<lopta> What's the lightest flavour of Ubuntu?
<zmoylan-pi> lubuntu i think
 * lopta goes to look for it.
<zmoylan-pi> if that's too limited then xubuntu
<lopta> I've had good experience with Xubuntu in the past. Perhaps I should try lubuntu too, for comparison purposes.
<lopta> I'm trying Xubuntu 14.10 while I download lubuntu 15.04. Unlike Windows 10 technical preview, Xubuntu has already recognised the WiFi and second monitor on this laptop.
<zmoylan-pi> xubuntu can be made to look and behave a lot like win2000 which was my favourite version of windows
<lopta> I'm happy with it looking and behaving like Xubuntu. ;-)
<lopta> ...but that may help me get it under the radar at work, for some projects.
<zmoylan-pi> oh for that put a rasp pi in a desktop calculator :-)
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: I only put my model B away to free up desk space for the laptops I'm potching with now.
<lopta> My boss' boss wanted me to try Windows 10 on them just to run an RDP client.
<lopta> ...but not all of them are well suited to Windows.
<zmoylan-pi> you put... the model b... away... to free up desk space... ::pictures a desk from a dolls house:: :-)
<lopta> Well, there's the model B and a USB hub and keyboard and mouse and wires and things and stuff.
<lopta> Hmm... the screen went black.
<lopta> (both screens)
<lopta> Oh, I get it.
<lopta> brb
<neuro> plamf
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigca
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<lopta> Let's have another go at installing lubuntu.
<lopta> Perhaps I did something wrong.
<bujji> hello o/
<lopta> hello bujji
<bujji> how do you do?
<lopta> Good thanks, yourself?
<bujji> good))
<bujji_> lopta:o/ again
<matt_____> hi
<bujji_> hi))
<matt_____> not sure if i am at the right place!
<bujji_> ?
<matt_____> i need some technical help?
<bujji_> you can ask here
<matt_____> great!
<matt_____> just installed ubuntu 15.04
<matt_____> just a couple of issues
<matt_____> 1) system wont start up and shut down correctly
<bujji_> go ahead
<matt_____> i have to start up using systemctl defaaut
<matt_____> and shutting down i have to power the machine off
<matt_____> also none of my usb ports are working
<matt_____> is there anything that i can try to rectify this?
<bujji_> check default run level.
<matt_____> ok, how do i do this please
<bujji_> who -r
<matt_____> is that from the command line? who -r
<bujji_> yes
<matt_____> what should i expect to return
<bujji_> what is the current run level?
<matt_____> no idea!!
<matt_____> brand new on this os so how do i check current level
<bujji_> who -r (or) runlevel type in terminal
<matt_____> right i obviously will have to shutdown and restart to get command line unless you know a shortcut?
<bigcalm> ctrl+alt+t
<bigcalm> That will bring up a terminal window
<matt_____> brill if i do that now i wont lose the chat?
<bigcalm> Alternatively, ctrl+alt+f1-6 will take you to tty1-6. Use ctrl+alt+f7 to return to the desktop
<bujji_> no
<matt_____> thanks for that just writing these important shortcuts down!!
<matt_____> 1 sec i will go and try
<matt_____>  run-level 5  2015-07-14 20:17
<bujji_> init 2
<matt_____> ?
<bujji_> it will change to run level 2
<matt_____> ok will that correct my issues?
<bujji_> type "lsusb"
<bujji_> to see list of usb devices you told tht none of the usbs not working?
<EUFIz> to-d-lo
<EUFIz> is there a british ubuntu channel?
<Myrtti_> that's pretty much what it says on the tin
<EUFIz> this is united kingdom channel
<Myrtti_> aaaaaannnnddddddd...?
<EUFIz> i was looking for the british channel
<EUFIz> for one the BBC
<EUFIz> its British
<EUFIz> its not UK tv
<EUFIz> like wise there could be a british ubuntu channel
<EUFIz> theres even a BBC computer
<zmoylan-pi> ah, but if there were an actual british ubuntu channel it would be so reserved and polite that it would never ADMIT to been the british ubuntu channel... ;-)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-15
<zmoylan-pi> podcatcher downloading a podcast from the bbc. salt and it's diverse history.  such a wasted opportunity to have called it salt, an epicures delight... :-)
<knightwise> morning
<mapps> morning knightwise
<diddledan> morning
<bashrc_> g'day
<knightwise> hey bashrc_
<knightwise> how are you
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<bashrc_> I'm ok
<knightwise> me too , gonna play around with a spare rasp pi I have lying around later on today
<knightwise> been thinking of running NAGIOSPI on it
<bashrc_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm9mQ6zitZs
<knightwise> too bad they don't distribute these things in a vm
<knightwise> thanx bash
<knightwise> seen this btw ? http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/adblock-everywhere-raspberry-pi-hole-way/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> knightwise: I've installed windows IoT on one of my pi2s
<diddledan> knightwise: I'm planning on developing an app to run a nagios dashboard on it
<diddledan> knightwise: and also make said app packaged for every device under the sun via cordova
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Gummi Worm Day! ð
<bigcalm> Was never a fan of those as a child
<bigcalm> It was fizzy cola bottles or astro belts for me
<davmor2> JamesTait: you feeling okay? did you fall out of bed? did it hurt?  Oh and hmmmmmmmm gummi worms
<davmor2> bigcalm: weirdo
<bigcalm> davmor2: mirror
<JamesTait> bigcalm, all valid in my book.
<awilkins> Flying saucers
<JamesTait> awilkins, those too.
<JamesTait> Though better in my mouth than in any book.
<diddledan> wb Knightmare
<diddledan> knightwise:
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've never denied being weird I'm proud of it :P  weirdo ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Fried Eggs, Milk bottles and Catherine Wheels
<JamesTait> Sherbet dips.
<awilkins> Sherbet fountains
<awilkins> When you could actually get the liquorice tube to work
<JamesTait> Did we once have Cadbury Top Deck in Britain, or am I imagining that?
<bigcalm> The number of times I accidentally snorted that stuff..
<awilkins> Mm, maybe thats what I'm thinking of when a Double Decker vaguely disappoints me
<bigcalm> JamesTait: doesn't ring a bell. we have Double Decker by Cadbury's
<awilkins> Ah. We have had Top Deck
<awilkins> But I don't see it any more
<awilkins> Top Deck is just a half-and-half milk / white chocolate bar, right?
<JamesTait> https://justamumnz.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/top-deck-brownie-5.jpg?w=600
<knightwise> just installed the pi-hole addblocking DNS server
<knightwise> first impressions : Works good
<awilkins> Apparently you can still buy it :https://www.ocado.com/webshop/product/Cadbury-Dairy-Milk-Top-Deck/95601011
<JamesTait> awilkins, you can, but it's imported from South Africa.
<JamesTait> So really expensive.
<JamesTait> Which is why I usually cram a couple in my case when I'm over there.
<awilkins> Don't they know that globalization is supposed to completely homogenize the world product selection? *tch*
<awilkins> That would be insane
<JamesTait> (Also s/case/face/ works)
<knightwise> hmm.. anyone ever tried posting to google+ from the command line ?
<awilkins> Because suddenly our shops would be mostly weird Japanese brands that hang around for about 3 weeks.
<knightwise> victorp: Vic ? are you in ?
<ali1234> damn it the facebook api docs are completely useless
<popey> hot
<popey> damn hot!
<foobarry> feel so rough :(
<foobarry> was in a&e from 12-6am
<foobarry> usually i like to be in bed then, strangley
<diddledan> popey: serves you right for being on holiday :-p
<zmoylan-pi> hard plastic chair surrounded by sick people not good enough?
<diddledan> foobarry: :-(
<foobarry> sick children, even worse
<diddledan> on sunday night I got-up in the middle of the night to use the loo. I damn near fainted while I was stood there for some reason.
<foobarry> hopefully mine is ok.
<foobarry> i nearly fainted around 4am
<diddledan> now I got the sniffles
<foobarry> but found some ginger biccies in my bag
<diddledan> biccies!!
<foobarry> am mustering the fortitude to convert from WFH-> train to office
<foobarry> for my annual appraisal this afternoon :S
<zmoylan-pi> a reluctant train spotter...
<diddledan> I really ought to clear-out my email archive
<diddledan> I've now got over 140000 emails in it
<foobarry> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/XJXQd0o9bwiRfVEdAWIMm-i_ss8RP8hlqJb0D53REtg8wPQrL7kYV8WPWmjxQMUUSbBGAHTd3_4vHIwer12TJRA-yG901MwAV4gsNPtFYEYZsbsN-aKTPH8W8yX6gs1DRnwrs0M
<diddledan> it's causing thunderbird to run slowly
<foobarry> is french maid uniform usual attire ?
<foobarry> for hackathons
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> foobarry: might be in japan
<diddledan> I think she might be photobombing
<bujji> Hello all
<foobarry> oh, a cheque from the taxman
<foobarry> how nice
<TwistedLucidity> Dear Foobarry, Here is a cheque for (Â£1,000). Regards, HMRC [i.e. negative]
<foobarry> shuoldn't have told wifey but i was dancing in the front room
 * TwistedLucidity refrains from commenting on nature of relationship :-P
<TwistedLucidity> My old penions company fessed up to underpaying recently. That was a nice surprise.
<bujji> TwistedLucidity:twisted twist
<foobarry> we have a shared account. can't hide a secret more than 5 minutes before i fess up
<foobarry> evernote you suck hard
 * bashrc_ uses org-mode
 * foobarry has to collaborate with others
<Azelphur> Is it just me or is there not any decent prime day deals at all
 * lopta shrugs
<diddledan> Azelphur: I've not looked
<diddledan> Azelphur: it's supposed to be "moar than black friday" <-- that doesn't mean the deals are good, just that there's many of them
<Azelphur> I'm just sitting here wanting a ~40" TV, a printer, scanner, 5TB hard drive, I'd buy any of these things if they came up
<Azelphur> yea I guess so :/
<diddledan> 5TB?!
<diddledan> that's hunormous
<lopta> I think it's Wombat Wednesday.
<Azelphur> diddledan: I already have 3 of them
<Azelphur> would like a 4th to go RAID6
<lopta> Azelphur: Why not RAID 1+0?
<lopta> With disks that big rebuild times could be an issue.
<Azelphur> lopta: because I want to be able to expand
<Azelphur> and rebuild times aren't so bad
<lopta> Hmm... ok.
<foobarry> anyone received spoof whatsapp message via email?
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<foobarry> whats all that about
<foobarry> not sure what its trying to spoof
<zmoylan-pi> easy to recognise as bogus as i don't have whatsapp
<foobarry> and lots of international characters in the mail
<foobarry> whÃ¦tsapp
<TwistedLucidity> You can register children's names using Unicode in the UK. That could be fun.
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe not for little upside-down-smiley-face-umbrella-puppy
<foobarry> teatime ï¼â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ â»ââ»
 * lopta grins
<lopta> I'll stick to ASCII for mine.
<foobarry> drop tables;
<zmoylan-pi> linear a and b are part of unicode urinating dog
<awilkins_> Ahh, Evelyn DROP TABLE children; , that classic amongst British names
<awilkins_> Would it surprise you to know that one of the major computer parts retailers in the country used to have a SQL exploit in their web front end, the web app ran using the root DB user?
<awilkins_> OH THe HUMANITY
<bashrc_> nice
<zmoylan-pi> but security is expensive...
<bigcalm> Vogonity
<lopta> bigcalm++
<bigcalm> :D
<lopta> I'm trying to think who sells computer parts in the U.K.
<bigcalm> It's the only thing I ever hear, can't help it
<bigcalm> PC Hell
<TwistedLucidity> lopta: Overclockers, Morgan, Scan...
<bigcalm> Ebuyer
<bigcalm> dabs
<TwistedLucidity> That too. Amazon, ebay
<lopta> I do remember Morgan.
<lopta> Scan rings a vague bell.
<TwistedLucidity> http://www.scan.co.uk/
<TwistedLucidity> Depends on what you are after and what volume
<lopta> It makes me happy to know that Morgan are still around.
<zmoylan-pi> morgan are still going?  i miss the fuzzy b&w adverts promising cheap tat...
<TwistedLucidity> Local laptop and mobile phone repair emporium
<lopta> brb
<lopta> Does Ubuntu ship with IrDA support?
<lopta> What are some lightweight Linux distributions (other than lubuntu and Xubuntu)?
<foobarry> ubuntu ones?
<zmoylan-pi> tiny core linux
<foobarry> elementary linux is light but slick
<lopta> Thanks.
 * lopta starts to think about lunch.
<popey> ubuntu mate :)
<foobarry> ubuntu mate comeswith one question
<foobarry> do you remember the original live aid concert? if yes then continue
<bashrc_> what happens if no?
<foobarry> unity
<foobarry> or wait in eternal loop until you are 37
<bashrc_> mate is only for over 37 year olds?
<lopta> What software would we use to manage a fleet of Ubuntu or Xubuntu computers?
<mapps> hm no idea couldnt you write your own scripts perhaps
<lopta> Oh. I thought Canonical had something.
<DJones> lopta: Isn't that what lanndscape is designed for
<DJones> landscape
<DJones> !landscape | lopta
<lubotu3> lopta: Landscape makes the management and monitoring of Ubuntu systems simple and effective by combining world-class support with easy to use online management tools. https://landscape.canonical.com/
<lopta> Thanks.
<DJones> Not sure on the pricing for commercial businesses though
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<lopta> Good afternoon.
<brobostigon> guten abend.
<ryan___> Hi
<ryan___> I'm having problems with installing apps, etc
<ryan___> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<davmor2> ryan___: sounds like apt/dpkg is being used by something else
<ryan___> davmor2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11884575/
<ryan___> take a look
<davmor2> ryan___: yes still sounds like the same issue.
<ryan___> davmor2: What should I do the #Ubuntu IRC team ain't helping
<davmor2> ryan___: run ps aux read down the list and see if something is holding apt dpkg open kill it and then try again maybe, or failing that reboot and try again
<ryan___> davmor2: I do not understand? davmor2
<davmor2> ryan___: something has opened apt or dpkg and not closed it so everything is locked to that process, kill the process it released the lock.  You can either find the process number and kill it or reboot the pc to kill it
<ryan___> OK davmor2 I'll try and do that
<diddledan> evenin
<davmor2> diddledan: How do
<diddledan> http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/15/windows-10-is-reportedly-done/#.0hunk1:PjJN
 * diddledan now downloading the rtm build of windows 10
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-16
<mappps> hi all
<mappps> anyone buy anything on the amazon prime week
<zmoylan-pi> saw a few people complain they didn't see anything worth buying
<mappps> yea i saw some weird stuff
<mappps> my little pony pogo stick or somethin
<mappps> lol
<zmoylan-pi> has it reached the pointt that the good stuff is targetted by bots so winners can profit by their resale?  online sales version of ticket scalping
<mappps> wat do you think of that intel compute ubuntu stick zmoylan-1i ?
<zmoylan-pi> it's interesting but it's a lower spec than the windows version.
<zmoylan-pi> i'd rather pay more and get the windows version and install ubuntu onto that
<mappps> hmm is there any reason that wouldnt be possible
<mappps> and why do lower spec > just because it can because ubuntu requirs less than win?
<knightwise>  morning peeps
<mappps> morning
<mappps> Sorry, this Seller doesnât deliver to Gibraltar Learn more
<mappps> of course
<MooDoo> morning all
<foobarry> the amazon sale had some prominent items, like fire hd7 etc
<foobarry> i used a fire and found the UI hideous
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc_> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo, diddledan: Pink Floyd Another brick in the wall part II this morning :)
<MooDoo> nice
<davmor2> MooDoo: it'll be the collecting the Step Son from the hospital 7 hour trip yesterday that triggered that at a guess :)
<MooDoo> ouch lol
<MooDoo> hope he's ok
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Corn Fritters Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: http://open.spotify.com/track/2WrAmnTrQcxhc1GAiPF6nk
<JamesTait> davmor2, "Login to listen for free"?
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UmUX68KtE
<foobarry> davmor2: i know the feeling. had 6hr trip from 12-6am
<foobarry> on tuesd/wed
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> foobarry: this was just collecting him, We were told he would be ready to leave at 12:00, So left at 11 got there at 12:15 Expecting to collect him and go, no they meant he would be leaving the ward and heading down to the departures room to wait on the pharmacy
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Was it your goodself extoling the virtues of byobu recently?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: most likely
<TwistedLucidity> Because I have now tried it and, now understand what it is.
<TwistedLucidity> Not to belittle it but "Tmux made sane" would be a good summary. It's really neat.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: and now you too can't live without it ;)  I think there is one gotcha to look out for which is I don't think it handles nested well, the controls only ever work on the outer shell I think.  There might be a fix for that or a way to switch from one to the other not sure :)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I'll be demoing it tonight and other multiplexers. Shall see what the troops think.
<davmor2> \o/
<TwistedLucidity> Quite liking dvtm+dtach too.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: the nice thing that dick_turpin discovered, is even if you're server doesn't auto start byobu for you, you don't have to remember some made reattach command, you just start byobu again and there it all is :)
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah. "dtach -A /tmp/username -r winch dvtm" doesn't roll of they keys, does it?
<TwistedLucidity> Although the likes of "screen" do let you run multiple sessions. Although that seems to forget layout when you detach, which is weird.
<zmoylan-pi> i just have a script that has reattach line for tmux in it.  so 2 letter name of that script instead of full reattach line
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah. I have something similar for mRemoteNG on Windows when I want to escape to reality.
<diplo> Only issue I have with byobu is connecting via Putty, scrolls, only fix that I found last time was changing from tmux to screen but that causes its own issues
<davmor2> diplo: there is a scroll mode, but I've not had issues scrolling on my server running byobu
<davmor2> diplo: F7 and then alt+pgup/pgdown
<diplo> davmor2: Don't mean like scrolling the page
<diplo> The bottom status bar just scrolls up forever in putty
<davmor2> diplo: oh right okay
<diplo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10731099/byobu-hard-status-line-scrolls-the-screen-when-updating
<diplo> Ah seems an answer that that I haven't tried :)
<davmor2> diplo: oh good let me know if it works would be interested even though I don't need putty fortunately
<diplo> yah it does :)
<diplo> woohoo
<davmor2> diplo: also in windows 10 powershell and ssh it's almost like they are catching up with Linux ;)
<diplo> So in putty its set to latin1 by default it seems
<diplo> changing to utf8 fixes it
<diplo> On putty here ( use it from my ubuntu box normally )
<davmor2> diplo: weirdo ;)
<diplo> Yeah, used to use PS a lot in my last job, may have to play again
<davmor2> diplo: up vote it quick :)
<diplo> I've not got a user on there, although I use it all the time
<diplo> Guess I should sign up :)
<diplo> And done!
<bigcalm> davmor2: just had a call from Amo. I've only just realised what a strong Wolverhampton accent he has
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ahhhhhh that's racist ;) No it's true he is true a son of Wolverhampton :)
<bigcalm> He misses you
<davmor2> bigcalm: I should be at the next meeting
<bigcalm> I hope everything in life allows you to do so :)
<intrbiz> next meet on the 22nd?
<bigcalm> Should be
<bigcalm> I'm at a PHP conference in Portsmouth this weekend, otherwise would have given Barcamp a go in brum
<intrbiz> ah
<intrbiz> I was in sommerset / hampshire last weekend
<intrbiz> will actually get back to wolvo for the first time in 2 weeks tomorrow evening
<bigcalm> Beer festival? Or is that type casting you now?
<bigcalm> How's it going down there?
<intrbiz> Yeovilton Air Day (was awesome)
<bigcalm> Cool
<intrbiz> going well, essentially gotta rebuild all the PostgreSQL servers, so they are done propperly
 * bigcalm shudders
<awilkins> Can you not get a nice Docker container of PostgreSQL
<awilkins> Isn't EVERYTHING docker containers these days ;-)
<davmor2> bigcalm: that means intrbiz was in a beer tent with planes right?
<davmor2> bigcalm: actually it was Yeovil so more like Cider tent
<intrbiz> I did have some rather morish cider, but was too busy watching planes to drink much
<intrbiz> awilkins: its more about tuning for scale
<davmor2> bigcalm: see I know intrbiz too ;)  intrbiz glad to hear you had a good time, did you take photos?
<intrbiz> a couple, only with the phone, so not very good: https://twitter.com/intrbiz/status/620685043820830724
<knightwork> howdy peeps
<awilkins> Gnnnnngh. My Windows VM decided to do a windows update in the middle of a webconference. And then reboot, interrupting the conference.
<zmoylan-pi> it was for the best, ms decreed it
<awilkins> The resulting terrible performance was all the result of Windows, and the takehome message that my senior colleague gets from this..... "You should stop running Windows in a VM before someone raises it as an issue"
<foobarry> i disabled windows from doing this kind of thing for my vsphere OS install
<foobarry> intrbiz: bit jealous
<foobarry> air shows are great. especially ones with spitfires
<zmoylan-pi> nowt like the sound of a merlin overhead...
<foobarry> or 4
<zmoylan-pi> oooh, a lanc?
<foobarry> about to root my hudl to get rid of the startup chime
<foobarry> i saw the BoB flyover from my office roof last week
<foobarry> quite a few in that one
<zmoylan-pi> on my android tablets i found turning the sound down to zero at home screen affected the bootup noise
<foobarry> not on the hudl
<zmoylan-pi> that's annoying
<foobarry> their loss
<zmoylan-pi> i can't abide bings and bongs on startup
<foobarry> because after root i will do other things, but this is the catalyst
<foobarry> nor can my wife if i can't sleep and want to read
<foobarry> in the middle of night
<foobarry> or i'm in a meeting
<foobarry> just had a great post-lunch nap. on with my day!
<zmoylan-pi> i use my phone for ereader.  it's a nokia and i don't have to think about it's battery life
<zmoylan-pi> and if i fall asleep reading it'll bounce with no damage
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: the lanc is currently grounded due to engine fire
<intrbiz> I did see the only two lancs in the world together last year at cosford, the other one having come over from canada
<intrbiz> at costford last month, there was a formation flypast of the BBMF and the Red Arrows
<mappps> most successful month for a while on betfair
<mappps> only made 1 deposit all month;D
<nigelb> 26
<nigelb> gah
<davmor2> 42 I think you'll find is the right answer nigelb
<nigelb> davmor2: :)
<nigelb> davmor2: A few off-by-one errors is all.
<foobarry> popey: hudl2 rooting is now very easy and loses no data
<davmor2> foobarry: but why do it ;)
<foobarry> to get rid of the startup BONGGGG
<foobarry> that annoys sleeping wives and people in meetings
<foobarry> that is non mutable
<davmor2> foobarry: don't turn it off :P
<foobarry> unfortunately the batteries are *lame*
<davmor2> foobarry: did tell you :)
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> nice otherwise though
<foobarry> stupid intel chips
<diddledan> I think that mobo might be dead
<diddledan> several hdds have now not worked properly on it - in various sata ports. now it's not even initialising a usb thumbdrive
<diddledan> problem is I want data off the drive in there
<diddledan> annoyingly, too, I wanted to archive a load of 5.25" floppies and that mobo is the only one I have which has an fdd
<diddledan> controller.
<knightwise> victorp: victor  ? you in ?
<victorp> knightwise, I think you might have the wrong victor
<diddledan> allo knightwise
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... am I hoping for too much connecting my android phone to ubuntu pc & transfer files?
<zmoylan-pi> transferring files on and off android is a chore
<zmoylan-pi> was easier in earlier versions of android when it appeared as a usb drive.  now it's mtp which sometimes is wonky
<zmoylan-pi> or goes slow, or doesn't want to work on days with a y in it
<DJones> SuperEngineer: Install airdroid on your android device, connect via a web browser, job done
<DJones> Connects over wifi
<DJones> Best method I've found
<SuperEngineer> DJones, via a web browser????
<DJones> Yep, once installed on android device, and started, it gives you a htttp address, just plug that into a computers web browsers and it works like a file manager
<zmoylan-pi> and *THAT'S* considered easy...
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Can't get much easier, click one button on android device, put one http address into a browser, can't get much easier than that
<DJones> SuperEngineer: https://www.airdroid.com/
<zmoylan-pi> file size limitation on free plan... 100mb
<zmoylan-pi> or is that the premium...
<DJones> I've never found any file size limits
<SuperEngineer> DJones, oh bugger... freememory too small for it! /me now annoyed... but thanks :)
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.airdroid.com/en/pay/ 'Transfer larger files by remote transfer, 1GB with Windows & Mac, and 100MB with Web.'
<SuperEngineer> DJones, [but gonna try anyway!! ... it's installed!!! double thanks!!!
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: "Transfer larger files by _remote_ _transfer_" I just use local transfer over a home wifi network, nothing remote is involved
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Just testing, its go no issue with me trying to copy a 2Gb file across my own wifi network toa tablet
<SuperEngineer> Airdroid now removed. nthink I'll stick to SDcard transfer - thanks again though
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough, i may give it a shot next time mtp decides to be a nuisance
<diddledan> good ol' phil: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/hes-done-it-again-prince-philip-makes-yet-another-public-gaffe/ar-AAd2FON?ocid=iehp
<zmoylan-pi> well if anyone knows about sponging...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: he prolly has a spongebath every night?
<zmoylan-pi> living off state handouts
<SuperEngineer> living off hand state outs
<zmoylan-pi> i'm guessing philip fills out fewer forms for more dosh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mappps> zmoylan-pi, / daftykins / diddledan  watched any of mr robot?
<mappps> morning bigcalm ?:)
<diddledan> evening
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-17
<mappps> hi guys
<mappps> hey diddledan
<mappps> you sen any of it
<mappps> graceland then bed
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Yellow Pig Day! ð
<knightwork> Yo peeps
<popey> foobarry: how?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * knightwork waves at brobostigon 
 * brobostigon waves back at knightwork 
 * zmoylan-pi starts mexican wave with self.... holds fan to get breeze going...
<knightwork> hmmm :) Weekend project : http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/turn-raspberry-pi-network-monitoring-tool/
<knightwork> wife complained that our sonos cuts out from time to time .. going to monitor it
<davmor2> JamesTait: what is today I only just got my server back so missed it :)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Yesterday's demo went well. People really liked byobu.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: \o/
<TwistedLucidity> Although we did manage to break it
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: haha sounds about right file a bug :)
<TwistedLucidity> Well, one person did. They managed to spawn multiple tmux sessions and got everything into a bit of a fankle.
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, if I can reliably recreate it, I will.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: if you have raid anywhere did you know it can monitor it on byobu too?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: there is a huge array of things you can do on that bottom bar that most people don't know about :)
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, neat. Did not know that. All I was really doing was a run through of screen, tmux, byobu and dvtm+dtach
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: :)
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/vivid/man1/byobu.1.html
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Why do I need man pages when I have you? :-P
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: because that gives all the plugins :)
<foobarry> popey: post #631 in a massive thread of course ;) http://www.modaco.com/topic/373642-how-to-root-your-hudl-2/?p=2258980
<foobarry> windows only though. which sucks
<JamesTait> davmor2, today is Yellow Pig Day. Something to do with mathemeticians and the number 17, apparently.
<brobostigon> thats the handy thing about newer version of CM, you have a switch in dev options, and your can turn off/on app/adb rooting/unrooting at will.
<foobarry> supersu does that too
<popey> foobarry: haha. that original useless thread
<brobostigon> foobarry: certainly.
<foobarry> if i want to watch 4od i have to turn off root with supersu
<brobostigon> yep.
<foobarry> popey: you mean it started off useless and actually had something useful?
<foobarry> not sure how it works. usually i lose data when i root
<foobarry> or unlock bootlader
<davmor2> JamesTait: Sound more like flying pig day
<foobarry> not sure i should be watching black hawk down while in bed with a sick bug
<popey> yes foobarry
<foobarry> yeah, and the reason that most people are rooting? to disable the loud startup noise.
<popey> i might pick up a second one for hacking
<popey> sam uses mine
<foobarry> now Â£99
<TwistedLucidity> Any discount for clubpoints?
<foobarry> yesh
<foobarry> half price !
<foobarry> Â£50 in clubcard vouchies
<TwistedLucidity> And for that price, is there a better option? Maybe some no-name jobby?
<foobarry> can't go wrong
<foobarry> there are 7 inch ones
<foobarry> and i saw a lenovo 10 inch on amazon sale t'other sale
<TwistedLucidity> For Â£50 I guess one can't go wrong.
<foobarry> apart from the battery life, its great
<foobarry> even has microsd storage
<TwistedLucidity> Neat. What is the battery life?
<foobarry> 4-5 hours. standy/screen off battery life is weak too though
<TwistedLucidity> Hrm....
<popey> hudl2 is way nicer than pretty much any noname
<foobarry> it won't get an update either
<popey> i get way more than that
<foobarry> and occasional intel chip bugs
<popey> i watched videos for 9 hrs
<foobarry> witchcraft
<diddledan> ok, so grub's apt package's postinst on my 15.04 box is hanging. (grub package version 2.02~beta2-22ubuntu1.1)
<diddledan> specifically grub-efi-amd64
<foobarry> ever tried this ipega 9023 controller? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Bluetooth-Controller-Joystick-Android/dp/B00PJRCANY
<foobarry> not sure there are enough good games to warrant it (native or emulated)
<ujjain> aptly is so slow :(
<popey> wifey is using hudl2 here now to do online shop ready for when we get home :)
<foobarry> anyone used this greenify app for older tablets?
<awilkins> Can you root hudl2 yet?
 * awilkins reads up
<awilkins> Intriguing
<awilkins> Is it nicer than a Nexus 7 when you stick CM on it though
<foobarry> tldr; yes, easily
<awilkins> (2012 N7(
<foobarry> 8.3 inch screen makes a difference for me
<awilkins> Getting just a little frustrated by the 2012 N7's slow performance
<foobarry> they all seem to do this
<foobarry> i wonder if its the storage getting old/slow/bad sectors mapped out
<awilkins> Friend punted it back to Android 4.4
<awilkins> Not sure if that improved it
<ujjain> how do I get package info about an app not installed? I want to see fmor which repo it comes
<foobarry> apt-cache policy <package>
<ujjain> ah perfect, thanks
<foobarry> np
<popey> i wound a n7 back to 4.4 and wasnt better
<popey> its the flash controller in n7 2012 which sucks Aiui
<awilkins> Feels like RAM being full, but I guess that would feel the same as an IO problem (Because I think of RAM being full because of swapping which is an IO problem)
<popey> i reflashed my n7 to 5.x
<popey> but only use iy for one thing at a time
<popey> *it
<awilkins> That's the solution I've adopted... switching between tasks is really slow still
<awilkins> Even if you close one and open another
<foobarry> i hate the disposable nature of it all
<foobarry> so much e-waste
<foobarry> and nobody addresses it because people keep on buying
<popey> well. not really. we are technically still using them :)
<popey> i want to pick up a cheap arm chromebook for doing arm builds
<popey> ebay have them for 40 quid
<bashrc_> is cross compiling not good enough?
<popey> not always
<awilkins> Was going to suggest a Raspi2 but I guess 40 quid for something with a screen and a keyboard is pretty competitive
<popey> also fast storage
<foobarry> popey: which model for 40 quid?
<popey> hp jobbie
<popey> dont have link handy
<popey> they have no charger
<popey> was outbid on a couple last week
<foobarry> i probably have enough gear
<foobarry> google is showing results from evernote now :-|
<popey> i currently build stuff on my laptop in chroots
<popey> would rather not build on that machine
<awilkins> Hrrmph
<awilkins> Nexus 7 problems : http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/18/googles-nexus-7-tablets-dying-early-possibly-due-to-cheap-memory
<popey> nice
<awilkins> Apparently kicks in when you fill the RAM up
<awilkins> And because the software doesn't use TRIM
<popey> the 2013 is a much nicer device in every way
<awilkins> Not sure if I've ever filled the RAM close to full
<awilkins> I have 14GB of free space right now but I do like to load videos onto ti
<foobarry> awilkins: not just the nexus though
<foobarry> my hp touchpad and wifes samsung glaaxy tab 10.1 went the same way
<foobarry> factory reset does not resolve it
<awilkins> Possibly mucking about with manual erasure of userdata partition will fix it : https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=41061#c40
<awilkins> I may try this. But it's annoying because then I'll have to reconfigure everything :-(
<foobarry> i dont think i can root wifey tab
<foobarry> "Please note that this will not recover your phone from slowness, but helps keeping it fast when you leave it about one gigabytes free space"
<foobarry> might wanna explore greenify awilkins
<bashrc_> if you can get a recent kernel onto it there is zram
<foobarry> i have to run fast reboot on my moto g every day too
<foobarry> 5.0 killed it
<awilkins> My N4 has loved 5
<foobarry> .0 or .1
<awilkins> .1.1
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> mem leaks in .0
<awilkins> Nexus 6 is silly expensive
<awilkins> Why can't they do another Nexus 4 priced phone...
<knightwork> the nexus 6 is not worth it
<awilkins> My only frustration with the 4 now is that using Maps drains the battery faster than it will charge
<awilkins> And it overheats because they missed out that heat spreader
<awilkins> If I had to replace my phone today I'd probably get a Moto G 2nd gen
<knightwork> Oneplus ,
<knightwork> pretty happy with it
<knightwork> low price , high quality
<awilkins> One or Two?
<awilkins> Hmm. I've seen reviews that suggest it has some infuriating issues
<knightwork> one ,
<awilkins> But Â£219 for a 64GB maxi-phone-o-tron is pretty good money
<knightwork> its been working ok , just got jittery once or twice
<knightwork> i'm running the oneplus os (not cyanogen)
<knightwork> the oneplus android spin (ice os ? )
<awilkins> Isn't it just a forked CM anyway?
<awilkins> Is it 4.4?
<awilkins> Specs page says "Cyanogen 11S based on Android 4.4"
<brobostigon> and if memory serves, there is a cyanogen os, based on cm12.1, i think.
<knightwork> https://oneplus.net/oxygenos
<awilkins> Ah, yes, the marketing copy is more up to date than the specs
<knightwork> OxygenOs is the version i'm running
<popey> been using my n4 in the car here with offline gmaps for navigation
<diddledan> ok. with the hyper-v balloon driver on windows 10 TH1 (10240 some dub as RTM) ubuntu 15.04 gets kernel timeouts
<diddledan> turning off dynamic memory will fix the issue
<diddledan> specifically highlighted when os-prober tried to modprobe the xfs module
<diddledan> this is on a hyper-v generation 2 vm (the efi version)
<foobarry> i read quite a lot, never read kill a mockingbird. not sure why the hype over the follow up
<popey> it was required reading at wifeys school
<foobarry> probably in english lit gcse at ours too.
<foobarry> i hated books i read at school
<foobarry> even day of triffids until i read it myself
<foobarry> school had a way of choosing really dull books for syllabus
<diddledan> I only remember three in specifics. those being "of mice and men", "driving miss daisy" and the staple that is, was, and probably allways will be, "Romeo and Juliet"
<diddledan> --l
<foobarry> kes, old man and the sea, other dreary guff
<foobarry> midsummer nights bore
<mappps> You're wondering who I am (secret secret I've got a secret)
<mappps> Machine or mannequin (secret secret I've got a secret)
<mappps> With parts made in Japan (secret secret I've got a secret)
<mappps> I am the modren man
<bujji> can any one tell me about logrotate?
<ball> Is there any advantage to having an Ubuntu desktop PC and an Ubuntu Phone?
<ball> (do they work well together?)
<bujji> imagine os in our hand?
<ball> bujji: I'm not sure what that means.
<knightwise> Â²evenin
<zmoylan-pi> what's all this 'ere then
<ball> Nuffin officer.
<ball> These 'ere firewalls had 'oles in 'em when I got 'ere.
<zmoylan-pi> now get 'ome to your mother before i clip your ear you ruffian
<ball> Mother's inside baggin' the storage array...
<zmoylan-pi> dibs on the ups
<ball> In desperation, I've just fired up the corporate computer-based training bilge.
<ball> Oh joy, this one's about SharePoint.
<zmoylan-pi> please ensure you are using ie5
 * ball grins
<zmoylan-pi> i think i know where i have that on 5.25" disks
<ball> You've just reminded me that the first time I installed Linux it came on a stack of 1200K 5.25" floppies.
<zmoylan-pi> i used recycled aol floppies
<daftykins> :D
<ball> At least it didn't come on a DC600A
<ryan18456> I'm having problems trying to install .tar.xz files
<ryan18456> & it's the linux kernel
<ryan18456> I'm not an Linux person I'm more of a Windows person
<ball> ryan18456: Are you trying to install a special kernel?
<daftykins> this is the one that just got banned from #ubuntu for being obnoxious
<MartijnVdS> ryan18456: a .tar.xz is an archive file, compressed (like zip or rar files)
<ball> daftykins: Thanks.
<daftykins> *tips hat*
<ryan18456> daftykins: shh & leave me alone, I'm trying to upgrade my linux Kernel here lol
<ryan18456> ball: It's the latest up-to-date kernel from here: https://www.kernel.org/
<daftykins> i already told you not to speak to people like that.
<daftykins> why do you want to?
<daftykins> have you been told by someone that upgrading will make everything better (TM) ?
<ryan18456> MartijnVdS: OK, any suggestions for me to install it or no?
<MartijnVdS> ryan18456: you don't "install" those files, you extract them. But I agree with daftykins -- kernels aren't magic: what is the problem you're trying to solve?
<ryan18456> MartijnVdS: Updating my kernel duh?
<daftykins> you have to understand that newer kernels are not like keeping a smartphone or Windows PC 'patched', you're just going to complicate matters.
<daftykins> yep there's more of that rude attitude.
<ryan18456> Anyways
<ryan18456> Any idea's or not?
<MartijnVdS> ryan18456: lots of ideas, but no idea why you'd want to do what you're trying to do
<ryan18456> MartijnVdS: OMFG install the kernel!
<MartijnVdS> ryan18456: that's that what. I'm asking for the why.
<daftykins> ryan18456: you have to justify it to get help essentially, as once a newer kernel is on it's not ubuntu anymore - which means you can't really ask for help in here.
 * daftykins silences his teenager alarm
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that or the helpdesk proxy...
<ryan18456> MartijnVdS: because I want to, it's my PC lol
<MartijnVdS> ryan18456: you don't need to. Even though it's your PC
<daftykins> :)
<ryan18456> MartijnVdS: yes I do
<daftykins> you're not going to get very far in life hiding your intentions :)
<ryan18456> daftykins: and your German ;) no wonder you lost 2 world wars ;)
<zmoylan-pi> who runs eu now? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> masterblaster^Wmerkel
<daftykins> ryan18456: being connected to the kornbluth server hosted in Germany does not make me a German person - but i'd suggest you stop trying to be bias about where people come from
 * ball waits patiently for ryan18456 to get himself kicked.
<ryan18456> daftykins: Yawn! :D
<daftykins> yes my sentiments exactly.
<ryan18456> None of you are goingto him
<daftykins> ryan18456: your childish attitude is why you will not get any effective help in these channels, wise up in future or you'll never get anywhere.
<ryan18456> daftykins: Shut up you nob and go play with your kid toys and Rubbish and worst techincal support I've ever had in mylife
<ball> That ought to do it.
<awilkins> "Shut up you nob" quite British
<awilkins> BSKYB customer
<awilkins> Shame you can't get the region from their DNS names like you can with Virgin
<zmoylan-pi> could hazard a guess at their age mind...
<bujji> hello
<KrimZon> hi
<bujji> can any one tell me logrotate
<KrimZon> what about logrotate?
<bujji> that is i am asking
<KrimZon> suppose you have /var/log/apache2/error.log
<bujji> okey
<bujji> i assume that catalina.out )
<KrimZon> logrotate can be configured so that you end up with todays errors in error.log, yesterdays logs in error.log.1, the day before in error.log.2
<KrimZon> plus various other things like backing up old logs or just deleting them
<KrimZon> so that the drive doesn't fill up with logs
<bujji> how i can use that with your example like..
<bujji> error.log
<bujji> error.log.1 in place error.log.$(date)
<bujji> KrimZon:o/
<KrimZon> i'm not sure
<daftykins> bujji: read up :)
<KrimZon> google logrotate with date in filename
<bujji> daftykins:iwant to create script for this ..
<daftykins> bujji: and?
<daftykins> why highlight me with that
<bujji> i gave just reply dafty
<daftykins> k
<bujji> http://linuxers.org/howto/howto-use-logrotate-manage-log-files i found this dafty
<daftykins> ok, but it's you learning it, not me?
<bujji> ookey,
<bujji> where the file will be created ?
<KrimZon> usually in the same directory as the original file
<bujji> inside loggrotate.d i need to create file?
<bujji> KrimZon:hey
<bujji> daftykins:o/ :)
<KrimZon> i don't know off the top of my head
<daftykins> bujji: no
<bujji> whats up how is the weekend dafty
<bujji> daftykins:watch bahubali  movie:)
<bujji> can you give me more info on "bios" dafty...
<daftykins> no
<diddledan> evning
<diddledan> evening**
<daftykins> hello sir
<daftykins> what's new?
<diddledan> new is when something is very recent :-p
<diddledan> not much going on here (serious reply)
<zmoylan-pi> tis a friday, enjoy it
<diddledan> oh the ironies: http://i.imgur.com/cRXu0dO.gif
<zmoylan-pi> the weekend stretching ahead of you
<bujji> hello again
<m0nkey_> diddledan, got my ubiquiti edgerouter :)
<bujji> watch bahubali movie
<diddledan> http://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/2015/07/doomception-how-modders-got-doom-to-run-inside-of-doom/
<diddledan> m0nkey_: coolbeans! \o/
<ali1234> diddledan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsive_web_design
<diddledan> ali1234: using a different url isn't being responsive
<ali1234> using a different URL that isn't responsive isn't not responsive
<ali1234> the mobile site is responsive, you can completely ignore the main site if you want
<knightwise> hey peeps
<diddledan> alo
<diddledan> allo knightwise **
<knightwise> anyone played with nagios before ? Trying to get it to send me an email when something goes down
<daftykins> diddledan: so, yet another new build and no more watermark eh?
<knightwise> been playing with NagiosPi, looks pretty swell
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah
<diddledan> knightwise: the configuration has a lot of boilerplate you need to do and for some reason they insist on it being in many many config files
<knightwise> its a pretty pre-configured environment (completely pre-cooked image file) so there just may be an error with the mail server or something , not sure
<m0nkey_> hey diddledan, these edgerouter poe's are only supposed to come with a 24V adapter for powering 24V devices off the POE ports.. mine came with a 48V :D
<diddledan> hmm, sourceforge is offline
<knightwise> yep , noticed that they are in static mode
<diddledan> it's nice how their site status page leads to a message that the site status page (and the rest of the site) are offline
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> let that be a lesson to you, your status pages need status pages!
<diddledan> their latest twatting reports "#SourceForge site is read-only, developer services disabled due to storage infra fault. Service restoral work in-progress, ETA to follow" - that account has a nice message in it's description that states "For support, see ticket/IRC/email information on http://sourceforge.net/support/" the support url is also offline when they're in static mode
<diddledan> that twit was 17 hours ago btw
<knightwise> ok , switching Nagios over to Sendemail
<foobarry> nagios is the lynchpin of an IT infrastructure knightwise
<foobarry> adagios is based on it, lets you do a bit more
<ball> It's +33C out.
<ball> (hotter than that if you believe my car's thermometer)
<daftykins> erk :S
<ball> Actually nice to get back to the office. At least they have air conditioning turned on.
<daftykins> :D
<ball> The A/C in my car hasn't worked since the autumn.
<ball> I should probably get that fixed. For now I drive with my window down and hang out of the window like a dog.
<brobostigon> :(
<ball> ...with my tongue flapping in the breeze
<ball> Erm... suddenly it's raining.
<ball> Perhaps that'll cool things down a bit.
 * brobostigon drools, yes please, cool weather.
<daftykins> confirmed ball: https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUSXqjwbaUH8R68sDb6ymZ3tmWr6R3IUM0HkT-KQ4oPhbNuJIx
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> wow 33MB file copy to a flash drive taking multiple minutes
<diddledan> I've been copying off an external drive since yesterday
<diddledan> (several TeeBees)
<daftykins> ;_;
<ball> I backed up some files from my work laptop today. I'm told they'll be replacing the hard disk within the next fortnight.
<daftykins> it's a corsair GT flash drive too, hmm i'll nuked it in a tick and see what's up
<ball> (and supposedly upgrading the RAM)
<daftykins> ball: something up with it?
<diddledan> daftykins: maybe it's dead :-p
<diddledan> daftykins: you do seem to attract dead disk
<diddledan> disks*
<ball> daftykins: It's fine but my colleague badgered them to upgrade his so they're upgrading mine too.
<ball> ...so they're upgrading it and fitting an SSD.
<daftykins> nice :D
<daftykins> will it be your first?
<ball> Yes.
<diddledan> virgin!
<daftykins> you won't know yourself! :)
<daftykins> a wild shauno!
<daftykins> hi sir
<ball> It's my work laptop. I suppose it means the laptop will boot quickly. Sadly the equipment I work on takes about five minutes to boot and we're not putting SSDs in those.
<shauno> greetings humans
<ball> ...and about 45 minutes to upgrade the firmware.
<diddledan> I need to pull the disk out of my other pc - it's either dead or the mobo is
<ball> I'll probably pull the hard disk out of my wife's desktop PC tonight.
<ball> ...and see whether her Mac can read the disk.
<daftykins> NTFS? macs read but don't write at all, iirc
<ball> That's fine. Read-only would be my preferred choice anyway.
<daftykins> so she went to the dark side, eh?
<ball> She was using Ubuntu for about a month. Her exact words were "I don't know what this is but I hate it".
<ball> Interestingly she didn't complain last time I had her running Xubuntu for a while.
<popey> bah
<popey> flying home tomorrow :(
<ball> Interestingly I didn't mind it.
<ball> popey: Where are you now?
<popey> portugal
<ball> Ah, my sister has been there.
<popey> its lovely
<daftykins> i still have my guest from the US
<ball> daftykins: Where is he or she from?
<daftykins> she's from Houston, Texas :)
<daftykins> so quite the change to come to a wee island
 * ball nods
<ball> I can relate to the shock.
<ball> It took some getting used to when I moved to the U.S.
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I wrote a go-lang program to provide a uniform mechanism for uploading to an sftp-only server we have to use for one of our clients. It does sftp and works on windows, mac and linux without any changes to the code.
<diddledan> I got moaned-at for originally having it on github :-(
<diddledan> specifically because it had a hardcoded ip and port number
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-18
<mapwrk> Hi all
<bujji> rm: cannot remove âYear Wise Finance Data.lnkâ: Read-only file system
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<czajkowski> aloha
<diddledan> afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoodlings diddledan
<diddledan> noodlings, eh? /me gets his camera
 * brobostigon is the noodle monster.
<diddledan> pastafarian?
<brobostigon> that reminds me, i am making pasta for me and my gf for dinner this evening.
<diddledan> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon needs to get the ragu started pretty soon then.
<diddledan> supposedly asking siri to "charge phone 100%" will make her call the emergency services
<brobostigon> lolz
<popey> \o/ home
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> wb popey
<diddledan> ooh, divergent series: insurgent is available for purchase on tuesday
<diddledan> I enjoyed the first one
<diddledan> I'm a bit of a fan of teen-fiction even though I'm somewhat older than teen these days
<rlw980> Ever since I've installed the latest Linux 4.1.2 Kernel my PC has been going mad, I'm a Windows user and not a Linux/Ubuntu user this is all new to me if you fully understand me :)
<rlw980> In other words how can I restore the old kernel back, if you get me :)
<directhex> rlw980: how did you install 4.1?
<popey> (also why)
<rlw980> directhex: I sent you the URL now where & how I installed it
<directhex> ...uh?
<rlw980> directhex: bascally I covertered it from tar.xz to a .deb format, then installed it
<popey> ew
<directhex> ye gods
<popey> you probably don't want to do that
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> how do you convert a tar.gz to deb
<diddledan> xz**
<rlw980> I've done it, any suggestions or tips #ubuntu-uk
<popey> yeah, don't do that :)
<diddledan> is it even compiled in the tar.xz?
<rlw980> diddledan: I've delete it now
<popey> what was the motivation for going to 4.1?
<directhex> diddledan: the "alien" command converts between packaging formats
<rlw980> popey: keeping up-to-date (like Windows)
<diddledan> directhex: but .tar.xz isn't a binary "package" (usually)
<popey> its not really necessary unless there's some hardware or software feature you're after
<directhex> rlw980: sounds more like you copy-pasted notskrnl.exe from windows 10 to windows 7, and are now having weird issues for some reason
<popey> what guide did you follow?
<directhex> *ntoskrnl
<directhex> diddledan: arch uses it, no?
<diddledan> lol
<rlw980> diddledan: I'll send you a pastebin.ubuntu.com
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> directhex: it might be from slackware :-p
<popey> I'd just be inclined to boot back to your previous kernel, and reconsider why you need 4.1.2
<popey> It's certainly posible to do
<directhex> we have no idea what alien did to the grub config
<popey> just there are some better ways to do it
<diddledan> doesn't the ubuntu kernel team have a ppa?
<popey> yes
<directhex> but yes, it *ought* to still be listed in grub, so just a case of booting back into that kernel & removing the wayward package
<popey> also "going mad" doesn't quite describe any specific problem :)
<rlw980> I've done that "uname" commands take a look: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11899557/
<directhex> rlw980: people in here have been doing this crap for decades each. please bear in mind that when you're asked a precise question, you need to provide a precise answer
<directhex> rlw980: we still have no idea what guide you followed, so have been powerless to provide helpful suggestions for ~10 minutes
<rlw980> directhex: I'll call techicnal support
<diddledan> directhex: I hear that. I was messing with gentoo when I was in diapers :-p
<directhex> sigh. is that 2 or 3 strikes?
<diddledan> err. this _is_ technical support (alternatively #ubuntu for a more populated technical support)
<rlw980> diddledan: no it's not it's all text based chat and Microsoft has better tech support and some of them are lol. :P
<directhex> diddledan: "technical support" isn't based on telepathy or omniscience. specific questions still need specific answers.
<directhex> 3 strikes. i'm done.
<popey> rlw980: we're trying to help
<popey> rlw980: but you're not helping us help you.
<diddledan> rlw980: I'm not sure microsoft's technical support will be able to help you in this case
<rlw980> Yes they will if I'm removing Ubuntu & go back to Windows 8.1 more professional and all I want to do it get rid of linux kernel 4.1.2 and put the old one that was one Ubuntu 15.04 no I want professional techincal support
 * diddledan facepalms
<directhex> here you go. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/clean-install
<diddledan> \o/
<popey> rlw980: we have asked you numerous questions which you've completly avoided answering. No technical support (professional or otherwise) can help you.
<rlw980> popey: none of you are professinoal's anyway :')
<rlw980> lol
<popey> My day job is working on Ubuntu
<popey> So yeah, I am.
<directhex> the next generation, ladies & gentlemen.
<popey> Most of the other people are also profesional developers, operations experts or tech support people.
<rlw980> popey: Ubuntu is spyware lol
<diddledan> grr
<rlw980> Tha'ts what I got told
<directhex> i'm a professional griefer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr2Bc5qMhE4
<diddledan> FUD
<popey> rlw980: feel free to use something else.
<m0nkey_> yey, freebsd :D
<rlw980> popey: I'm think about that now, if I can't restore my old kernel back
<rlw980> Can we start again?
<directhex> we still haven't started.
<directhex> 17:35 <directhex> rlw980: how did you install 4.1?
<rlw980> OK
<popey> Sure. What guide did you follow?
<directhex> that's where you got stuck.
<rlw980> directhex: Right I got the latest and stable version 4.1.2 from here - https://www.kernel.org/
<rlw980> directhex: after that I googled how to install the kernel
<rlw980> I'm trying to find the website that helped me
<rlw980> Please bear with me :)
<directhex> well, that's more info than we had before
<rlw980> directhex: I installed a couple of tools
 * brobostigon is the nostalgic BeOS/haiku nut, :D
<directhex> make-kpkg?
<rlw980> called fakeroot, alien &kernel-package
<directhex> right, ok.
<rlw980> Found it! :D the website that helped me install 4.1.2 and even though that this website says 3.12 I followed ever steps
<rlw980> http://www.tecmint.com/kernel-compilation-in-debian-linux/
<rlw980> and yes I used make-kpkg
<directhex> fairly easy, then. it didn't *replace* your old kernel, it installed alongside it
<rlw980> directhex: I deleted the old kernel though :/
<diddledan> yeah, don't do that
<directhex> well, reinstall that package
<rlw980> diddledan: I've done it
<rlw980> Shall I go root on term "sudo -i" and type this command in "sudo apt-get remove linux-image-(non-working-kernel)"
<directhex> apt-get install linux-image-generic
<rlw980> directhex: what about the 4.1.2 kernel
<diddledan> apt-get remove it
<rlw980> command please
<directhex> rlw980: put the old kernel back; boot into the old kernel; remove your 4.1
<directhex> in that order
<rlw980> Oh  right :/
<diddledan> yeah don't remove the 4.1 until you're sure you can boot the old kernel
<rlw980> diddledan: Oh right umm -faces palms- I removed it :(
<rlw980> What now
<diddledan> reinstall it
<diddledan> directhex gave you the command for that
<rlw980> diddledan: didn't
<diddledan> so this is a figment of my imagination?: <directhex>	apt-get install linux-image-generic
<rlw980> as
<rlw980> root
<rlw980> or
<rlw980> not
<popey> actually
<brobostigon> sudo*
<popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> that will put back anything you removed
<diddledan> popey: that's a good plan
<popey> note the caret on the end
 * popey goes back to cooking
 * diddledan likes carrots
<rlw980> right
<rlw980> I'v
<rlw980> e
<rlw980> I'm currently doing "apt-get install linux-image-generic"
<popey> that'll do
<rlw980> Then what do I do after that, do I remove 4.1.2-customkernel one then?
 * brobostigon also notes, his spacebar is not a replacement for good punctuation.
<diddledan> brobostigon: you mean the enter-key
<brobostigon> diddledan: yes that, :)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I still want to find the "any" key
<directhex> rlw980: after that, you reboot into the old one. you should get a menu at boot-time for which kernel to use
<rlw980> directhex: I'll be get rid of 4.1.2 one
<diddledan> no
<rlw980> Yes
<diddledan> we said not to do that already
<directhex> 18:00 <directhex> rlw980: put the old kernel back; boot into the old kernel; remove your 4.1
<directhex> 18:00 <directhex> in that order
<rlw980> My PC
<rlw980> I've told you I've remove it already lol :P
<diddledan> ffs
<directhex> i'm out again.
<directhex> this is why i quit tech support
<rlw980> diddledan: should you be on #ubuntu-us?
<diddledan> err.. why?
<rlw980> lol
<rlw980> diddledan: because your from US ain't you
<rlw980> lmfao :')
<diddledan> not that I'm aware?
<rlw980> OK
<rlw980> directhex: your not eben tech supoort ffs I've told you this this isn't tech support your all beginners
<rlw980> its a chat
<diddledan> insulting people trying to help you isn't a good way to garner their advice
<directhex> i spent 11 years doing tech support, including 6 years on linux-powered supercomputers
<directhex> but sure, kid, whatever turns you on
<rlw980> directhex: Linux is the s*ittiest OS ever & yeah aha next joke :)
 * brobostigon buryies his head in his hands.
<directhex> there has never, NEVER been a single thing of value or substance submitted to IRC via a web gateway
<brobostigon> i agree, most people who really use irc, use a proper client like irssi, for example.
 * zleap uses hexcha
<brobostigon> web gateways and proxies are very good at hiding ones-self.
<brobostigon> and are used on purpose.
<zleap> web intercaces are fine but if you close a tab or window you lose connection
<brobostigon> hence i said zleap, use a real client like irssi.
<zleap> oh web gateway
<zleap> i have irssi for the console
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> we should probably punt all new support requests to #ubuntu as a rule
<popey> Problem is we're pretty good at support :(
<brobostigon> oh well, :(
<directhex> you couldn't pay me to help out in #ubuntu
<directhex> well... maybe if i got double what i get at xamarin
<brobostigon> my gf might get a free pebble in the future, she offered to buy me an upgrade for my birthday, :)
<diddledan> brobostigon: birthdays ftw!
<brobostigon> diddledan: in 9 days, :)
<brobostigon> if anyone is in north oxfordshire, boozeup day, :)
<diddledan> tis a shame xamarin don't do an ubuntu-touch offering :-p
<diddledan> and I guess firefoxos is completely out of the question
<brobostigon> both have the same issue for me, which would otherwise be an option for me, xmpp client, and pushover/pushbullet client.
<brobostigon> make them an option*
<diddledan> I'm not sure how firefoxos works with ongoing network requirements - probably just shuts them down as soon as the app isn't foreground
<diddledan> I also think ubuntu does the same
<diddledan> so for things like xmpp you need a pushing proxy
<diddledan> i.e. server connects to xmpp on your behalf and pushes stuff to your phone
<diddledan> due to the techy nature of ubuntu's current audience it'ld be nice if there was a way of having an IRC connection that can be maintained even when the viewing app is suspended
<diddledan> the problem with that is battery life tho
<diddledan> afaict ubuntu's current model is awesome for baattery
<diddledan> I hear that when the screen is off it barely uses battery at all
<diddledan> unlike android
<diddledan> directhex: regarding xamarin: I thought when ms announced visual studio community that miguel also said that xamarin would support it with a free version of the mono+vs plugin?
<directhex> no idea. i don't deal with the Products
<diddledan> I haven't seen that happen, so I'm wondering if I imagined it
 * brobostigon looks that up, xmpp proxy.
<diddledan> directhex: oh well, worth a try :-p
<diddledan> odd. it seems that the official "starter edition" page lists visual studio but if you move from there to the paid "indie" you lose it
<diddledan> ref: https://store.xamarin.com <-- indie listed as not having visual studio, but: https://xamarin.com/starter <-- says it's part of starter
<diddledan> so you pay for a lesser package?
<diddledan> although unlimited app size
<diddledan> I've just posted a question to windows insider fora: http://www.pastebin.ca/3066719 (expires in 1 hour)
<diddledan> I posted that under the title "Confusion or Misinformation about the upgradeability to 10240" :-D
<penguin42> it's entirely possible they've not decided or are as confused as you
<diddledan> indeed. hence why I asked the question for a once-and-for-all answer
<diddledan> I've twittered @gabeaul :-p
<diddledan> someone just replied on the forum: Thumbs up. (both)
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> hm.  your jokes are getting worse?
<diddledan> ?
<diddledan> shauno: not a joke. I'm running windows :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: poor man
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> don't you love spam? "My name is Lucy. I am 25 years old. I am from Chongqing. I like your page. How often do you visit the site? I really want to communicate with you. I am good at Thai massage and really like to eat fish. What about you? I guess that we will have many topics to talk about."
<diddledan> I wonder which "the site" she means?
<diddledan> the site of my previous lover's death? (hint, she's in the basement! :-p)
<mapito> hahaha
<mapito> love it
<mapito> diddledan,  :D
<shauno> summer's weird.  it's almost light out, and mapps is here already
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> also, speaking of spam, I got a rather explicit spam from someone calling themselves Mildred.  It stuck out that Mildred is very possibly the least sexy name it could have generated
<diddledan> lmao
<shauno> in other news, I have sunburns!  which after 9 years in Ireland, I'm oddly proud of.
<diddledan> twitter: "be thankful tonight - that the stars are shining and the moon is bright. And the man in the garden wearing a hockey mask doesn't have a key"
<diddledan> \o/ irish sunburn!
<shauno> fun week on the water.  tuesday and weds burnt me to a crisp, thursday soaked me to the bone, and friday blew me sideways
<shauno> and we sank a pub!
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> it was oddly funny.  we found a great gastropub with no corkage fee.  so we stocked up at tesco, went to the pub and ordered food
<shauno> starters came, and then they burst a pipe in the kitchen and flooded out
<shauno> so we were left wandering around dun laoghaire in lashing rain with 3 bottles of wine and nae foods
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> \o/ for the wine tho
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-19
<diddledan> so who's been playing with wily?
<diddledan> shauno: how dare you assume I'm being n0rty!
<diddledan> shauno: so I might have been but that's besides the point..
<shauno> hey, leave me out of this
<mapito> hey
<mapito> none of the night owls around hm
<MartijnVdS> hmm?
<MartijnVdS> night? at 8:30?
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> how you doin brobostigon
<brobostigon> not bad really, abit mixed, and you?
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon knightwise MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<MooDoo> ?
<brobostigon> see above, :)
<MooDoo> oh aye :D
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> hmm
<popey> dug an asus tf101 out of a drawer and re-flashed android on it
<popey> battery is completely dead, won't hold a charge at all
<popey> dies as soon as you pull the charger cable out :(
<MartijnVdS> :(
<popey> bought a replacement proprietary charging cable for it because I wrongly thought that was the issue
<popey> happy i managed to re-flash it to stock android though, it was running a version of Ubuntu touch from 2012 :)
<ali1234> can you access the battery charge controller?
<popey> dunno
<popey> I could take it apart
<ali1234> just put 3.6v directly across the battery terminals, skipping the charge controller
<popey> you can buy replacement batteries on ebay, and there seem to be a lot of guides to replacing it, as it's a common problem
<ali1234> this will probably fix it
<popey> interesting
<ali1234> just do it for like 1 second
<ali1234> while it is also connected to the charger
<ali1234> this will reset the controller chip, then it will work
<popey> thanks. will give that a try.
<ali1234> normally on laptops you can;'t do this without ripping the battery open
<ali1234> and then it won;t go back in the laptop
<ali1234> looks like the battery is semi-sealed still
<daftykins> diddledan: tested out the xbox one windows 10 streaming yesterday :O https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8kng4jeuu3i5rl/VID_20150718_201513.mp4?dl=0
<directhex> daftykins: batman, playable on pc? :o
<diddledan> daftykins: sweet
<knightwise> hey peeps
<knightwise> anyone know anything about nagios  ?
<diddledan> this is stupid: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33566933/ripping-music-and-films-illegal-again-after-high-court-overturns-new-law
<diddledan> knightwise: I know a little
<brobostigon> this is not conducive to sanity, amazon delivering my birthday present on a sunday, leaving it at my neaghbours this morning, and they arent home yet, :(
<knightwise> hey diddledan , do you know where I need to set things up to send out email notifications ?
<knightwise> i changed the commands.cfg in /etc/nagios3 to use sendemail instead of /bin/mail
<knightwise> but when I look in my nagios report he points towards /usr/bin/print
<knightwise> so i'm not sure where to replace the send mail command line
<diddledan> knightwise: I believe you need to set a service definition to "notify x, y, z" where x y and z are user references. you can do this in each service or you can do it in something that each service depends on, such as the template thingy
<knightwise> yep , ive got that setup
 * brobostigon mumble rants.
<knightwise> the only thing i think is the matter is that nagios is using /bin/mail instead of sendemail
<knightwise> my isp does not allow firing off emails via port 25 and requires me to use an external smtp server
<knightwise>  this is the error i am seeing   Attempting to execute the command "/usr/bin/printf "%b" "***** Nagios *****\n\nNotification Type: FLAPPINGSTOP\n\nService: check_http\nHost: Multifunctional\nAddress: 172.16.50.2\nState: OK\n\nDate/Time: Sun Jul 19 17:39:53 UTC 2015\n\nAdditional Info:\n\nHTTP OK: HTTP/1.1 200 OK - 661 bytes in 0.064 second response time\n" | /bin/mail -s "** FLAPPINGSTOP Service Alert: Multifunctional/check_http is OK 
<knightwise> so if i read it correctly i need to install ....maiL ?
<penguin42> knightwise: You need something in there - but I think there are lots of choices to use for mail
<diddledan> knightwise: that doesn't say it failed
<knightwise> hmm.. "make sure the binary you are trying to execute exsists"
<diddledan> where does it say that?
<knightwise> Attempting to execute the command "/usr/bin/printf "%b" "***** Nagios *****\n\nNotification Type: FLAPPINGSTOP\n\nService: check_http\nHost: Multifunctional\nAddress: 172.16.50.2\nState: OK\n\nDate/Time: Sun Jul 19 17:39:53 UTC 2015\n\nAdditional Info:\n\nHTTP OK: HTTP/1.1 200 OK - 661 bytes in 0.064 second response time\n" | /bin/mail -s "** FLAPPINGSTOP Service Alert: Multifunctional/check_http is OK **" feedback@knightwise.com" resu
<knightwise> at teh bottom
<MartijnVdS> resu ?
<diddledan> I no see it
<shauno> I think you're hitting the max line length, you may want to pastebin instead
<knightwise> holdon
<shauno> also, mail is /usr/bin/mail on my debian box, you might want to make sure /bin/mail is correct
<knightwise> Attempting to execute the command "/usr/bin/printf "%b" "***** Nagios *****\n\nNotification Type: FLAPPINGSTOP\n\nService: check_http\nHost: Multifunctional\nAddress: 172.16.50.2\nState: OK\n\nDate/Time: Sun Jul 19 17:39:53 UTC 2015\n\nAdditional Info:\n\nHTTP OK: HTTP/1.1 200 OK - 661 bytes in 0.064 second response time\n" | /bin/mail -s "** FLAPPINGSTOP Service Alert: Multifunctional/check_http is OK **" feedback@knightwise.com" resu
<knightwise> Attempting to execute the command "/usr/bin/printf "%b" "***** Nagios *****\n\nNotification Type: FLAPPINGSTOP\n\nService: check_http\nHost: Multifunctional\nAddress: 172.16.50.2\nState: OK\n\nDate/Time: Sun Jul 19 17:39:53 UTC 2015\n\nAdditional Info:\n\nHTTP OK: HTTP/1.1 200 OK - 661 bytes in 0.064 second response time\n" | /bin/mail -s "** FLAPPINGSTOP Service Alert: Multifunctional/check_http is OK **" feedback@knightwise.com" resu
<knightwise> sorry
<knightwise> http://paste.debian.net/283909/
<knightwise> that is the link to the pastebin
<knightwise> shauno: i'm not sure /usr/bin/mail is gonna work in my case . I need to pipe it through an external smtp server .. does that work ?
<shauno> it can do .. I think most use mailx for mail these days?  that lets you set smtp server, auth, etc in ~/.mailrc
<diddledan> the alternatives system should use whatever you decide
<knightwise> I've looked at sendemail too , that also seems to work great. But then i'll need to change the complete "action" line in nagios
<diddledan> so you can install a mail server locally if you want to not use mailx
<knightwise> diddledan: thats just it. I think my isp blocks outgoing mailservers if its not piped through their smtp server
<knightwise> I think
<MartijnVdS> that's a common thing
<knightwise> but the error i get is that "the script or binary u are trying to use exists"
<MartijnVdS> but you can teach /usr/bin/mail to use a smarthost
<knightwise> ok , but how do i test that I actually have /usr/bin/mail  ?
<diddledan> knightwise: so does the binary exist?
<shauno> did you check if you should be using /bin/mail or /usr/bin/mail ?
<shauno> your command uses the former, my system only provides the later
<knightwise> yep , its there
<diddledan> knightwise: there's two programs used in the command: printf and mail
<diddledan> so do both exist
<knightwise> correct
<knightwise> but i don't think i"ve run the setup wizzard to configure mail
<MartijnVdS> maybe the thing runs chrooted?
<knightwise> no idea actually
<shauno> it's just using the wrong path, but I'm talking to a wall  lol
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: double-check (and triple-check) those paths.
<knightwise> ok
<MartijnVdS> exit code 127 is "command not found" so EITHER /bin/mail OR printf isnt found
<shauno> it just looks like the difference between /bin and /usr/bin to me
<knightwise> ah ! correct
<knightwise> its pointing to /bin/mail instead of /usr/bin/mail
<knightwise> ok
<shauno> once you have that set you can worry about either wrangling sendmail, or using something like ssmtp/msmtp that provide local relays to smarthosts
<knightwise> can I make a link that points /bin/mail to /usr/bin/mail ?
<diddledan> you shouldn't need to
<diddledan> just change nagios config
<knightwise> ok , looking for that now
<diddledan> there's two commands you need to alter: notify-host-by-email and notify-service-by-email (unless my nagios config is very different)
<knightwise> yep , those are in the commands.cfg .. right ?
<diddledan> yup
<knightwise> ok , i'm gonna dive into this and see what comes out
<foobarry> he'll be back in a week.
<foobarry> HOW DO I STOP THESE BLASTED NAGIOS EMAILS!
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> ddos from the cloud? it's the only way to be sure? :-p
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: use stolen credit cards to launch thousands of vms in amazon's aws and use those to ddos amazon
<diddledan> internal ddos ftw
<diddledan> "not to be taken internally"
<diddledan> don't you love that on some meds
<shauno> most of what I've heard with that isn't stolen cards anymore.  it's people accidentally committing their keys to github
<penguin42> diddledan: That's obviously impossible; if they ever run out of capacity they just order more hardware off themselves
<penguin42> diddledan: and they've probably got themselves a prime subscription so it arrives quickly
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and it's all running on some ancient vax in someones bedroom that they bought off ebay for a quid... :-)
<diddledan> not a PDP11?
<penguin42> nah they upgraded when they got big
<diddledan> (that's the only really ancient computer name I know of)
<zmoylan-pi> i learned to program on a pdp 11
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> our technical college still didn't have faith in these new fangled pcs...
<zmoylan-pi> i learned to type on a commodore pet
<diddledan> I think I was in diapers :-p
<diddledan> I cut my teeth on the family AMSTRAD PC1512DD
<diddledan> SD**
<zmoylan-pi> my home computer was a zx spectrum +2.  and proud of it!!
<diddledan> we started-off right by getting a pukka x86 :-p
<zmoylan-pi> a speccie was about 1/10 the price of a pc then
<diddledan> aye
 * brobostigon haz his new birthday toy charging, :)
<diddledan> brobostigon: what did you get?
<zmoylan-pi> cattleprod?
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> fun
<brobostigon> diddledan: my gf got me the pebble steel.
<diddledan> (ref: bottom with rick mayal)
<diddledan> nice
<brobostigon> it looks the hotness.
<brobostigon> she offered, i accepted, :)
<diddledan> knightwise: how you getting on?
 * brobostigon is a lucky man, he thinks.
<diddledan> brobostigon: well done :-p
<diddledan> brobostigon: not only do you have a pebble, but you even have a gf :-p
<diddledan> I've not actually seen what those new pebbles are like - I only recall the original model
<brobostigon> diddledan: it is the steel version of the original model, not the new time steel, it is simply too expensive.
<diddledan> aah
<brobostigon> the new basic pebble time is about Â£159, include var and import tax onto that.
<brobostigon> vat*
<diddledan> yeah, that's the base price for most of the current-gen wearables I think
<diddledan> excepting the apple thingy ofc
<brobostigon> so its simply too much, and i am happy, with this upgrade to my original pebble, it is certainly less as certain female friends of mine have put, it less elegant.
<brobostigon> and something that looks more like a normal watch, like knightwise's moto 360.
<ali1234> my brother bought a neptune pine
<shauno> mine's growing on me.  but I have noticed it completely destroys my phone's battery life if I do anything too complicated
<ali1234> it's hilarious
<diddledan> ali1234: as in a pine-tree from neptune?
<ali1234> http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/07/watches-are-now-phones-crazy-times/
<diddledan> err
<brobostigon> it helps bettery life, now that they are using BT-LE, instead of straight bt.
<diddledan> ali1234: that looks terrible
<ali1234> it is
<diddledan> but as you say, hilarious
<ali1234> if you want a really small phone it's quite good
<diddledan> lol @ pluggin your headphones into it
<diddledan> I want to improve microsoft's hololens by implanting the tech into my eyes
<diddledan> or at the least into contact-lenses
<diddledan> it's interesting to consider that as a future path when you look at some 90s tv shows that had such a thing
<diddledan> or geordi laforge's visor and later eyes
<brobostigon>  thats already being worked on, as i understand it.
<diddledan> brobostigon: \o/
<diddledan> I'll buy one!
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> (or two, depending on my current eyesight at the time of purchase)
<diddledan> if both eyes still work it would probably be best to get one for each
<diddledan> an interesting tv show currently running has some interesting ideas for near-future tech - it's called continuum
<diddledan> I like the story too
<brobostigon> a futurologist would be a good job, spend all day thinking about these things.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> futurology as a job sounds like you just state the obvious once-a-year and then go about enjoying retirement the rest of the year
<brobostigon> good point.
<diddledan> http://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-infrastructure-and-service-restoration/
<penguin42> yes, that's fun
<zmoylan-pi> i would have described a.c.clarke as a futurologist.  he refers to a metal band worn on the wrist for notifications in book version of 2010
<diddledan> nice
<diddledan> I've got one of those :-p
<diddledan> only 5 years late
<zmoylan-pi> well the fossil pda watch was available years ago
<zmoylan-pi> and the timex smart watch in 90s
<ali1234> brobostigon: there's plenty of money in that if you are any good
<brobostigon> ali1234: :)
<ali1234> that wasn't a joke btw
<ali1234> brobostigon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dARCiWjASBI
<diddledan> ali the guy from the 50s mark sounds like mos
<diddledan> ali1234: ^^
<ali1234> mos?
<diddledan> the it crowd
<ali1234> lol
<diddledan> makes it somewhat humorous to watch when you have him in your mind
<ali1234> i don't see it tbh
<ali1234> or hear it
<ali1234> maybe a bit :)
<diddledan> should get richard ayode to do a futurologist video under the guise of mos :-p
<ali1234> i'll pass it on :)
<diddledan> I tweeted Richard asking for a send-up :-p
<ali1234> lol you actually did as well
<diddledan> teehee
<ali1234> it's moss btw
<diddledan> is it
<diddledan> oh well
<diddledan> twitter: fewer characters ftw :-p
<ali1234> kinda suprised you don't recognise ben wood tbh, if you watch a lot of the bbc's tech news you've probably seen him more than once
<diddledan> prolly. my memory sucks :-D
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33585129
<ali1234> i've actually seen shoreditch - it's truly horrible
<diddledan> isn't "hipster" a slur?
<ali1234> yes, that's why it's funny
<diddledan> like "luckily no chavs were injured"
<diddledan> oddness. pc just randomly turned off
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-18
<diddledan> interesting: https://veertu.com
<diddledan> run virtual machines on your mac without custom kernel modules
<diddledan> (using hypervisor.framework)
 * diddledan gives it a go
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward corruption on diddledan's mac
<diddledan> aww, wonât let me install from iso in the freebie
<daftykins> o0
<m0nkey_> Fusion4Lyfe!
<diddledan> the problem I have is I want to run docker (which now uses the hypervisor framework) in addition to a win10vm in addition to vagrant (which charges for vmware capability)
 * daftykins rams diddledan 
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/so3sjnde3hrvs3e/IMG_20160718_024118.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> oh myy
 * diddledan is rammed
<diddledan> the new ones are on the left?
<daftykins> left hand stuff came out of my server - right hand stuff i've been testing in these different boxes
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> the juggling continues!
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> i'm thinking i could put the working good mobo from the coolermaster stacker server type case into the smaller case and consider it more saleable as a desktop
<diddledan> time for me to hit the sack methinks
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<popey> Greetings from Heidelberg
<knightwise> popey: Have some BratWurst!
<popey> Hah! I probably will at some point
<knightwise> Weather ok over ther e,
<knightwise>  ?
<knightwise> pretty smoochie warm here in .be
<popey> yeah, pretty warm here
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 et al
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh get you mr foreign la di da
<popey>  ð
<davmor2> popey: how was your break good sir?
<TwistedLucidity> 23Â°C here right now....
<TwistedLucidity> Hence I am wearing the lightwieght hiking kit with zip-off bits.
<TwistedLucidity> Maye get a bucket of ise for feet later
<Myrtti> 27 in the bedroom the whole night. I think I'll start cooking the dinner now so we can just microwave it in the evening
<knightwise> Myrtti: thats bad
<TwistedLucidity> It's my Siberian Husky I feel sorry for....
<Myrtti> instead of going to the kitchen with the conservatory heating it up all night
<Myrtti> er, day
<foobarry> ARM got taken over :(
<popey> davmor2: very
<foobarry> owned shares in the since 1999
<knightwise> so how about the ubuntu forum hack
<knightwise> is it as bad as they say ?
<popey> define bad
<popey> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/15/notice-of-security-breach-on-ubuntu-forums/ covers it
<Myrtti> foobarry: softbank was extremely good owner to Supercell
<davmor2> knightwise: only user names which they can get as easily by setting up a bot to look through google+ facebook and twitter
<davmor2> foobarry: they aren't moving it from cambridge and they are looking to double the staff to improve throughput for the internet of things I'd say your share will only get better :)
<foobarry> shame to lose a fine british owned company thoguh. now profits sucked out of the country.
<foobarry> the share will be bought out by the new owners for a premium
<foobarry> i would have been a millionaire had i bought the acorn shares when i wanted to but didnt knwo hoiw
<davmor2> foobarry: oh I'm sorry you think we have industry in the UK still ;)
<Myrtti> that wasn't exactly what happened with supercell. most of the profits were put back in
<davmor2> Myrtti: doubling the 3000 workforce won't be cheap so I'd say that was a huge investment in itself
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> I'd be more worried what happens when they decide to sell
<foobarry> its better than intel buying them though
<foobarry> or MS , AMD, etc
<JamesTait> Good morning!  Happy Monday, and happy Caviar Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> Strange that they'd pick now to do this, what with Article 50 looming.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> share price increased by 20% over last few months though
<foobarry> i checked my avg cost per share of my shareholding
<foobarry> hard to tell as i locked in profits over the years.
<popey> Article 50 won't be invoked at all. Is my prediction.
<popey> Brexit department under David Davies will be allowed to fail.
<foobarry> quite possibly
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Sell yer shares, retire to Caymans.
<foobarry> i think some people are suggesting keeping them in case there is a counter bid, but i think there is already agreement
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, sorry. Thought the deal was done-and-dusted
<foobarry> pretty much
<foobarry> the share price has already gone up to reflect that
<foobarry> but i bought in the dotcom boom when prices were high
<foobarry> i have made a profit but not the kind it would have been if i bought 10yrs ago
<TwistedLucidity> Hindsight is always 20/20
<TwistedLucidity> I keep meaning to buy some share tracker wotsits, but life keeps getting in the way
<foobarry> apart from a pittance left in hornby shares
<foobarry> i only have ARM
<foobarry> the only 2 companies i believed in
<TwistedLucidity> Only shares I hold are in my employer.
<foobarry> or just liked their products in the case of hornby :S
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<knightwise> hey bigcalm , MooDoo
<mappps> =--------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<mappps> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<mappps> ++++++++++++++++++++++++]
<popey> hello bigcalm
<popey> hello mappps' cat
<knightwise> mappps: that was ... moving :p
<knightwise> popey popey , seen this ?https://www.lynda.com/â¦/Up-Running-Ubuntu-Deâ¦/159637-2.htmlâ¦
<knightwise> Free at Linda.com
<bigcalm> knightwise: might need a better URI
<bigcalm> With fewer ellipsis
<knightwise> sorry , bad terminal , using cygwin (sucks)
<MooDoo> :)
 * webpigeon thinks that mappps' comment has some positives and some negatives...
<diddledan> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/swans-to-replace-trident-2014082089746
<diddledan> have you ever seen swans surfing? blob:https://www.youtube.com/58183441-123c-4c81-ab3f-59e2039d2492
<diddledan> argh wrong link
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/pja3UPlNHN8
<diddledan> ARM are selling! http://www.macrumors.com/2016/07/18/uk-chip-designer-arm-acquired-softbank/
<MooDoo> yeah apparently they are not moving it, just japanese buyers
<foobarry> for now
<diddledan> Iâve just put an order in to move broadband onto a&a
<diddledan> \o/ native IP6!
<diddledan> also. none of that nasty censorship crud
<diddledan_> wow: https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2016/07/lepton-image-compression-saving-22-losslessly-from-images-at-15mbs/
<daftykins> my my
<ali1234> 15 mb per second isn't actually that fast
<ali1234> 22% over already compressed data is impressive though
<diddledan_> especially as it's lossless
<ali1234> yeah... although the original JPEG compression isn't lossless in the first place
<ali1234> what they mean here by lossless though is that they can compress user's files and the user cannot tell
<diddledan_> yeah but lossy on top of lossy would be lossy^2
<ali1234> it's not just lossless, the original file is unmodified when uncompressed
<ali1234> which is a kind of odd goal
<ali1234> but not if you are dropbox
<diddledan_> generational degradation is exponential with lossy compression
<diddledan_> that's why you should never edit a jpg and only save the final into jpg if you want quality
<ali1234> yes but this has additional consstraints
<ali1234> you can represent the same image in multiple ways with jpeg, this can't allow that to happen
<diddledan_> lossless means that the uncompressed result is identical to the original, so I'm not seeing why you think that's an oddness
<ali1234> if it did it would technically still be lossless, but no use for dropbox cos people would wonder why their images have a different checksum
<diddledan_> if the checksum changes then it's not lossless
<ali1234> sure it is
<diddledan_> zip is lossless because the files you get out are identical to what you put in
<diddledan_> I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of lossless
<ali1234> no, i think you are
<diddledan_> lossless means literally nothing is changes
<diddledan_> d
<diddledan_> i.e. you don't "lose" anything
<ali1234> if i take a 24 bit PNG and convert it to indexed, it will be smaller. that is lossless compression
<diddledan_> nope
<ali1234> it will contain the same data
<diddledan_> nope
<diddledan_> checksum different means your compression has lost something or added something
<ali1234> that's clearly not true
<diddledan_> note that "preception" doesn't count with compression schemes
<diddledan_> loss and non-loss with compression is about the bits not whether it still quacks
<ali1234> then PNG can never be lossless
<ali1234> also zip cannot be lossless
<diddledan_> sure it can
<ali1234> it doesn't preserve all file metadata
<diddledan_> a text file added into a zip file with the word "flummox" will still read "flummox" when you extract it
<ali1234> is that ascii or unicode?
<diddledan_> i.e. the bits are identical
<diddledan_> it doesn't matter because the zip format is input agnostic
<ali1234> lepton isn't
<diddledan_> you give zip a file.
<ali1234> that's the point
<diddledan_> yes and lepton is lossless
<ali1234> it can only compress jpegs
<diddledan_> but lepton is only lossless with jpeg. I fail to see why that is confusing you
<diddledan_> it is producing the exact bits that are input when they're output
<ali1234> it isn't confusing me
<diddledan_> the reason lepton can only do jpeg is because it is designed to utilise compression artifacts of jpeg's format to improve in a lossless way the compression ratio
<diddledan_> it's two step - you make a jpeg with standard jpeg compression and then you lepton it to reduce storage requirements further
<diddledan_> in the reverse direction you will get exactly the same bits output from the lepton process that you put in
<ali1234> as i keep saying "same bits out" isn't a requirement for lossless compression. it only has to output the same information
<diddledan_> that is lossless, then your computer will decompress the jpeg data which WILL be different to the original image data that were input in bitmap form to jpeg compression
<ali1234> information is not the same thing as "bits"
<diddledan_> with computer compression schemes lossless and not is about the bits.
<diddledan_> otherwise you'd be able to say that jpeg CAN BE lossless
<ali1234> um... it can
<diddledan_> only if you don't compress AT ALL
<diddledan_> from wiki: Lossless compression is used in cases where it is important that the original and the decompressed data be identical
<diddledan_> data = bits
<ali1234> no, jpeg can do lossless compression
<ali1234> but by your definition it isn't really lossless, because you can't get back the original file. the image data is unchanged though
<diddledan_> the image data IS the original file
<ali1234> no it isn't
<ali1234> the image data is the uncompressed jpeg
<diddledan_> yes it is. you input into jpeg a bitmap. you get out a bitmap
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> bitmap -> jpeg -> identical bitmap
<ali1234> i can also do bitmap -> jpeg -> different jpeg -> identical bitmap
<ali1234> this is still lossless
<diddledan_> in an uncompressed jpeg, yes, in a compressed jpeg --- bitmap -> jpeg -> different bitmap
<ali1234> bitmap -> jpeg -> lepton -> different jpeg -> identical bitmap would also be lossless
<diddledan_> you can't compress a jpeg with jpeg again and get the same resultant bitmap as you got from the output of the first jpeg pass though
<ali1234> that isn't a requirement
<diddledan_> therefore IT IS LOSSY
<diddledan_> FFS
<ali1234> the only requirement is that two jpegs uncompress to an identical bitmap, which is entirely possible
<ali1234> besides, you absolutely can do that
<ali1234> bitmap -> jpeg -> jpeg lossless -> bitmap
<ali1234> the second one would be bigger though
<diddledan_> your example including lepton wouldn't be -> different jpeg. it would be the original jpeg recreated
<ali1234> yes, that is what makes lepton so unusual
<diddledan_> that's not unusual
<diddledan_> zip
<ali1234> name something else that does it?
<diddledan_> gzip
<diddledan_> xzip
<diddledan_> they ALL do the same thing
<ali1234> none of those are tied to a specific input format
<diddledan_> so?
<ali1234> lepton is
<diddledan_> so?
<ali1234> that's why it is unusual
<diddledan_> why?
<diddledan_> what makes being tied to a particular file format unusual?
<diddledan_> lossless compression it still is
<diddledan_> lossless means nothing lost ffs
<ali1234> being tied to a specific input format and also being binary-transparent is what makes it unusual
<ali1234> i never said it wasn't lossless
<ali1234> i said it is more than lossless
<ali1234> because lossless doesn't require binary-transparency
<diddledan_> YES IT DOES
<diddledan_> that's the whole meaning of lossless
<ali1234> you keep saying that, but you have nothing to back it up, and it's a definition which precludes most types of lossless compression
<diddledan_> name one lossless compression which is cited elsewhere as being lossless where the binary input stream is different from the binary output stream..
<diddledan_> and by binary output I mean the uncompressed data in-memory
<diddledan_> also the headers don't count unless they're also compressed by the same mechanism as the body
<diddledan_> it's the body data we're interested in
<diddledan_> i.e. the bits that have the compression applied to them
<ali1234> converting a JPEG to a PNG fits this definition
<diddledan_> the bitmap output from jpeg is what would be considered the input to png's compression and therefore the stream input will be identical to the stream output. you failed.
<ali1234> no, you failed
<ali1234> that's precisely why lepton is unusual
<ali1234> it has this property that the original jpeg file can be reconstructed
<ali1234> no other compression schemes have this property except for file-agnostic ones
<ali1234> (lepton isn't a stream compressor)
<ali1234> i know they claim it is, but it isn't
<ali1234> actually i wonder what happens if you feed it a non-jpeg file
<ali1234> maybe it just doesn't compress it at all
<ali1234> that would make it a stream compressor i huess
<diddledan_> it will either not-compress or it will depress
<diddledan_> the only reason they say it works on jpeg is because the algorithm is tuned to the patterns that jpeg compression gives-rise to. you can feed lepton anything and get back the same result
<ali1234> that's cool then
<diddledan_> lepton will probably cause your non-jpeg file to be bigger though
<ali1234> let's test it
<ali1234> i'm checking out the source
<diddledan_> all compression will have the same problems. not everything can be compressed by your chosen compressor and therefore due to mathematics some things you feed it will be bigger in their "compressed" form
<diddledan_> everything I've said is backed-up by wiki (the oracle of man whom shall be trusted in all topics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_compression
<ali1234> it doesn't compress non-jpeg files
<diddledan_> are you sure the algorithm doesn't, or is it just that they neutered the tooling to reject it
<ali1234> hard to say, the source is quite big
<ali1234> it looks like it really only handles jpeg, because what it does is take a jpeg and compress only the coefficients
<ali1234> from the comments: https://github.com/packjpg/packJPG
<diddledan_> arg @ idiots outside on mopeds
<m0nkey_> diddledan_, you played with osx sierra yet?
<diddledan_> not in earnest
<daftykins> i don't think there's anything in it of worth
<diddledan_> siri!
<daftykins> Apple iterate too fast now, all their OSs seem to suffer
<diddledan_> :-p
<daftykins> pfft that's gimmicky rubbish
<diddledan_> icloud all the things!
<daftykins> ugh :P
<daftykins> must say, Apple's storage rates are quite low
<diddledan_> trident being renewed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36830923
<diddledan_> 472 v 117 in favour
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan_> yeesh, is that nickname long enough?!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan whatever to people like you,  I have this nick with good enough reasons
<diddledan_> people like me.. I'll have you know there's nobody else like me!
<m0nkey_> thank goodness
<diddledan_> shush you :-[p
<diddledan_> err wonky smilie
<diddledan_> better than a wonky donkey I guess
 * diddledan_ refrains from mentioning wonky winkies in here 'cos I need to remain family-friendly
<diddledan_> wait, did I say that out loud?
<diddledan_> damn
<diddledan_> interesting: https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2016/06/GitHub-on-BigQuery-analyze-all-the-open-source-code.html
 * m0nkey_ is re-watching Red Dwarf from Season 1
<m0nkey_> Now on Season 2, Parallel Universe
<diddledan_> dang
<diddledan_> that's a lotta dwarf
<m0nkey_> It just played "Tongue tied"
<m0nkey_> That song makes me smile every time
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3t3IKlXqFU
<m0nkey_> Then there was a professional version done later
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU1XYvIUOrM
<m0nkey_> It hit No 17 in the charts
<m0nkey_> In 1993
<diddledan_> this came up next: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4gXaq0fmzk
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> Im preparing for the new series this September :)
<daftykins> diddledan_: he was rude to you :(
<m0nkey_> ?
<daftykins> nah not you, sir
<daftykins> https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/files/2016/07/ClHnIgKWYAAK0IM.jpg&w=3000
<daftykins> pilot snaps a thunderstorm near Panama
<diddledan_> NICE!
<diddledan_> a shareable link is https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/files/2016/07/ClHnIgKWYAAK0IM.jpg (for facebooks)
<daftykins> yeah i was being impatient, i already cut that one down from a nasty image viewer
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> only saw the two segments on pasting :<
<daftykins> mmm thai red curry cooking
<diddledan_> just been reminiscing over old phones - my parents had this when I was a kid: http://www.gpotelephones.com/USERIMAGES/Picture%20266.jpg
<diddledan_> daftykins I've made that thunderstorm my desktop image now
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> classic pots. plain old telephone system
<zmoylan-pi> near indestructible
<daftykins> one of my uni lecturers told us about how some high up meeting was started by a fella saying "we're going to talk about POTS and PANS today!"
<zmoylan-pi> pans personal area networks?
<daftykins> don't think so
<daftykins> given the era he seemed to be referring to
<zmoylan-pi> bt now does stretch back into the ancient era... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> bluetooth that is not british telecom...
<diddledan_> android nuggit
<diddledan_> with the emphasis on the git
<diddledan_> apparently the developer preview is out (who knew?!)
<zmoylan-pi> the nsa, gchq, fsb...
<daftykins> yeah for quite a while, unfortunately they're ignoring my Nexus 5 for it which leads me to believe it isn't going to get N
<zmoylan-pi> it's more than a few months old and is thus obsolete...
<daftykins> yeah, this is what irritates me about the phone situation
<daftykins> gotta be current to stay patched and secure, but have to keep shelling out to do so - i just want no part of it :/
<zmoylan-pi> there are 1-2 build your own rasp pi franken phones
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> no battery
<zmoylan-pi> use a mifi for data voip. then a pi with touch screen for io and a powerpack
<daftykins> nah no contracts for data for me
<zmoylan-pi> use prepay for data
<daftykins> not viable over here
<zmoylan-pi> ah, yeah, they are trying to eliminate prepay here to.  only tesco left in prepay market.  the rest sell rolling contracts under name prepay
<daftykins> i don't really use mobile data too, being an island i'm only ever out and about in the town with mates, or at a place with wifi
<daftykins> gonna need to do something in the US this september though :)
<zmoylan-pi> then lose the mifi
<zmoylan-pi> i use mobile date 1-2 days a month.  usually when i'm playing dnd.  means i spend e5 every 2-3 months for phone credit
<daftykins> heh
<zmoylan-pi> i see contracts been advertised all the time for #30-40 a month and i wonder just how much data people use on those contracts...
<zmoylan-pi> and one of our customers back in the days of video rentals had a daughter who spent about 3,000 a month on mobile phone service... pre data... voice and sms while abroad...
<daftykins> i think they're all mugs swayed by these silly flagship phones, can't believe it when they're daft enough to let themselves be locked into such rates just to buy a toy
<daftykins> "oh but it's free!" - *facepalm*
<diddledan_> how long does 200watts last? http://readwrite.com/2016/07/18/bae-systems-wearable-smart-vest-vt4/
<diddledan_> idiot journo thinks watts is a capacity of battery
<diddledan_> "The vest is capable of providing 200 watts of power to devices, before it needs to be recharged back at HQ."
<diddledan_> daftykins: I like toys!
<diddledan_> daftykins: moar toys!
<daftykins> noooo
<zmoylan-pi> yellow weather alert for tuesday... 29c possible... i feel whoozy already thinking about it...
<diddledan_> omg, not yellow weather!
<diddledan_> I hate yellow weather
<zmoylan-pi> shiny ball in the sky warning...
<diddledan_> ooh, first contact with aliens?
<Myrtti> whee bedroom temp is down to 27 already! parteeee
<chron> sorry what is yellow weather lol
 * daftykins links it to yellow snow
<diddledan_> Myrtti: sticky night in bed tonight then :-(
<daftykins> i'm sleeping on my sofa at the moment because it reaches 30 deg C up in the bedroom >_<
<Myrtti> as always
<diddledan_> daftykins: :-(
<chron> too hot
<Myrtti> I've got a sports shirt on
<Myrtti> doesn't help much, but It's something
<chron> its nice and cool outside though
<zmoylan-pi> i have small 6" fan in bedroom... wonderful breeze... washed hair before bed adding extra cooling as it dries...
<diddledan_> I changed my sheets yesterday. helps a bit to have new bedding for a few days
<diddledan_> lurve the first night in changed sheets
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> clean and showered in the evening, clean bed clothing and PJs/what have you - no chance in 'ell of getting up
<zmoylan-pi> and also a hot shower so that when you get out you feel wonderfully cool.
<diddledan_> lol, yup
<daftykins> after 3 years of living here i only just found out the bathroom window upper portion *isn't* painted shut after all
<daftykins> finally i don't die of heat having a shower in summer ;_;
<diddledan_> ooh.. https://webtorrent.io
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-19
<daftykins> argh it fires up a demo just viewing that page
<daftykins> BE WARNED
<diddledan_> it's not an illegal file though, so it only uses your bandwidth for a bit
<diddledan_> until you leave the page
<daftykins> yeah just didn't fancy the peer connections if it was going to share to more visitors
<daftykins> diddledan_: a mate has been keeping his Nexus 4 on an ancient android version because they developed a flaw where the front facing camera (i think he likes to skype his partner with it) being used can totally bug out the phone... today he messaged to say he's on too old a version to install pokÃ©mon go.
<daftykins> so that's at least one soul saved...
<zmoylan-pi> he can buy a cheap burner android for pokemon go... :-P
<daftykins> well he just has to suck it up and update the phone
<diddledan_> and stop skyping his willy to his partner
<diddledan_> sorry
<daftykins> precisely
<daftykins> no more free willy
<daftykins> aww man that should've been the headline at the reg when ubuntu 14.10 went EOL :)
<diddledan_> isn't willy 15.10?
<zmoylan-pi> so opera isn't been bought by the chinese.  only their browsers
<daftykins> diddledan_: sorry yep, right you are - mental typo.
<diddledan_> why can't foreigners understand that it's Ubuntu year.month[with-preceeding-zero] and assume that there's a thing called Ubuntu 16?!?!
<diddledan_> this is an awesome one to ubuntu-devel: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-July/016741.html
<daftykins> we had another of those irritating ones in #ubuntu-discuss yesterday(ish) saying all ubuntu mirrors should be HTTPS.
<diddledan_> that wouldn't make a difference to security
<diddledan_> everything is PGP signed
<diddledan_> I've had similar discussions myself
<daftykins> i think their angle is that a new user would not verify that
<daftykins> but i think that person was just a tinfoil flouter
<zmoylan-pi> if they're not using lead foil by now how can you take them seriously... :-P
<diddledan_> ^^ +2
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> they complained about the heavy hats
<daftykins> "something something helmet hair"
<daftykins> i've ordered an Â£80 new mechanical keyboard!
<zmoylan-pi> that's just the paranoia from the lead exposure kicking in...
<daftykins> you might say they'll be lead to ruin
<diddledan_> damn that's an expensive keyboard
<daftykins> oh my word, Toshiba are making QLC NAND - (quad level cell)
<diddledan_> what did you get?
<diddledan_> yeah I saw something about QLC earlier on the reg but didn't read it
<daftykins> not really, my original blank das keyboard from many moons ago was a good Â£120 back then
<daftykins> mmm, avoid it - all TLC and further should be banished!
<daftykins> https://dixunusmoumzz.cloudfront.net/filer_public/f3/01/f3017669-5604-4fcd-943b-a6263d942658/apexm500_keyboard_design_merged_02.png
<daftykins> steelseries Apex M500
<daftykins> believe it or not this is the least gimmicky one i could find
<diddledan_> looks like an IBM
<diddledan_> although.. blue moodlighting?!
<daftykins> i'll turn that off, but i don't mind the idea of a slight backlight on
<daftykins> sometimes i'm lurking in the dingy dark room ;)
<diddledan_> for when you compute beyond dusk without getting-up and thus are sitting in a dark room because the light switch is too far away
<diddledan_> wtf key is that next to right-alt?
<daftykins> yeah that's the one disappointing thing, silly custom key
<daftykins> of course that's US layout, i got a UK off amazon - or rather it says they'll get stock in 1-2 months ;)
<diddledan_> damn that's a long time to wait for instant gratification
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> it's really sad to be typing on a membrane again :(
<daftykins> why oh why das, did you have to fail so partially
<diddledan_> insane in the membrane
<daftykins> i'm kinda sad to have something labelled again
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlNrtcPCLw
<daftykins> quite enjoyed friends not being able to use my PC
<diddledan_> I wonder when the new google nexus device(s) are due
<daftykins> i just read a suggestion that my N5 might get 7 Nougat after all - and also claims that August time might bring a final together with talk of next devices
<daftykins> i can stay put if it gets 7
<daftykins> i got a new battery rear cover for Â£12 on ebay, seems to have sorted my poor signal down here in the granite of my ground floor
<daftykins> my my my, what to do.
<zmoylan-pi> when signals can't make it through phone cases... :-)
<daftykins> no i think it's that my friend opened it up and snapped the clips, this design has antennae in the rear panel
<daftykins> i reckon it must've had a weak or temperamental connection
<zmoylan-pi> weird
<daftykins> you guys ever get that problem where you're trying to get someone to do some work for you, but they never call back? :|
<daftykins> so annoying to have to chase someone, it's not even work for me, but a client
<diddledan_> sweary: https://twitter.com/0xabad1dea/status/755214841187565568
<daftykins> wow that is an angry creature
<zmoylan-pi> i reckon i know so many areas of computing because it's often impossible to depend on others
<daftykins> i happily tell people to change their OS when they're being idiots :)
<diddledan_> what do you tell them to use?
<diddledan_> winblows?
<diddledan_> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> dos? :-d
 * diddledan_ is appling right now
<daftykins> well as an example, over in #kodi we often get folks trying to use a distro which doesn't have packages, so i say just use a *buntu and get on with life, but then you get all the politics and how they won't run a *buntu because they don't like the cereal Mark Shuttleworth eats and all that bs
<diddledan_> omg he eats cereal?!
<diddledan_> cereal killer!
<daftykins> ikr!
<daftykins> he's like Dexter Morgan 2.0
<diddledan_> exactly!
<daftykins> i reckon i'm gonna work on the third PC, complete the fleet and then consider listing them for sale
<daftykins> this might end up being a mistake :P
<ali1234> daftykins: tell them to use debian then
<daftykins> no, that's what i sway them away from
<daftykins> deb trashes the packages because of their policy on not having the integrated ffmpeg
<ali1234> oh, it's one of those
<daftykins> they're also typically behind on versions with their own, modified ones
<ali1234> i always forget how broken kodi actually is
<daftykins> you say it's broken because it uses ffmpeg internally?
<ali1234> no, it's broken because the developers expect every operating system in the world to bend to their will
<ali1234> fairly common really
<daftykins> so they should do it the debian way huh?
<ali1234> they should let debian do whatever they want with the code
<ali1234> or not release it under an open license
<daftykins> but they do, it's me that's saying debian folks should take their high horse position that breaks the program elsewhere :)
<ali1234> it wouldn't break a properly written piece of software
<ali1234> hence kodi is broken
<daftykins> ffmpeg changes too quickly to be relied upon as it gets updated
<daftykins> i see where you're coming from but that attitude is exactly what's wrong with open source
<ali1234> well, it's a good thing debian has a stable release policy then, isn't it?
<daftykins> i think there's more to it than that
<ali1234> there's always more to it
<daftykins> sorry, did i insult your distro of choice?
<ali1234> no. i don't use debian
<daftykins> then cut the crap
<ali1234> no.
<daftykins> oh look, a tumbleweed
<diddledan_> I'm still awake?!
<diddledan_> wtf is wrong with me!!
<diddledan_> and why is there a person here with the name "wrong"?
<Myrtti> because it's hot
<diddledan_> ello Myrtti
<Myrtti> diddledan_: mmmrrrh.
<diddledan_> :-)
<mappps> +hola
<daftykins> o0
<mappps> :)
<daftykins> allo
<zmoylan-1i> add a little heat and everyone is awake
<daftykins> =]
<mappps> just speaking to my friend
<mappps> the sooner eu is disbanded the better
<zmoylan-1i> of course someone will have to write and correct the daily mail that hackers in this weather still code at night by the light of their screens but have their hoodies down...
<zmoylan-1i> the eu will be around a long time.  too useful to not exist
<mappps> nah
<mappps> its done
<mappps> unions dont work
<mappps> look at whats happening
<zmoylan-1i> unions work very well
<zmoylan-pi> most of the rights workers have came from unions
<ali1234> he doesn't mean that kind of union
<mappps> annoyed me tonight
<mappps> my mate said only loses smoke..knowing my mum smoked and died..and i smoke
<zmoylan-pi> smoking is an addiction.  my brother smokes on and off.  he's quit multiple times but in high stress times goes back to ciggies.  currently he vapes which so far the evidince is that it's not as bad...
<mappps> it is what it is
<mappps> we are all adults
<zmoylan-pi> some of us are more susceptible to addictions than others so it's not a level playing field
<mappps> I drink and smoke ....i wish i had a famly and kids but i dont
<mappps> instead im always out
<mappps> probably average 30pints a week
<ali1234> you don't have to go out to drink and smoke all day
<mappps> i work too:)
<daftykins> lawl
<mappps> i havent seen my sister for 2 years you know, she lives near my dad
<mappps> she had a kid a year ago..and yet i see my friends kids way more than her
<mappps> but its life
<daftykins> idgaf about family
<mappps> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> haven't seen some of my family in over 15 years, don't plan on changing that ever
<mappps> you dont live at home daftykins ?
<daftykins> no i have my own place in the capital
<daftykins> lived here 3.5 years now
<daftykins> family is a bit different on an island though, all too close...
<mappps> people say "oh you havent seen your niece" -- hang on
<zmoylan-pi> living in ireland i wouldn't know about that at all... :-P
<mappps> they could come here
<mappps> gib vs uk...hardly a holiday for me in uk
<mappps> plus im told i cant drink
<mappps> its like being at school
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: but there's miles! ;)
<mappps> so i may aswell stay where i am:P
<mappps> i played blackjack for 2 hours....boring as
<mappps> but its that or drink
<daftykins> pretty sure there are other options!
<mappps> annoying had to play Â£25 a hand...other table was full of people i dont want to speak to
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> ah your new Gib family! ;)
<mappps> hahaha no
<mappps> idiot at te casino says " are you a member" "no, why bother" "you get points"
<mappps> so yea you get one beer after yu lose 1k
<mappps> wow
<mappps> think i can manage without:P
<mappps> i dont want these people knowing where i live or what i do
<daftykins> what a deal!
<mappps> best part is
<mappps> these people are so stupid
<mappps> they ask my name i say mark plant
<mappps> "not understand"
<mappps> "plant like in the garden"
<mappps> its not even a hard surname
<mappps> all gone sleep?
<Myrtti> trying to
<daftykins> must eat ice cream to cool down
<daftykins> nah i finished a PC upstairs :P
<mappps> lol
<mappps> ice cream now?
<daftykins> it worked!
<daftykins> hells yeah, i'm dying here
<daftykins> i was just doing some labour intensive work in an already hot room, i'm knackered!
<daftykins> down here on my coolest floor it's 24 deg
<mappps> wow
<mappps> its that hot there?
<daftykins> yip
<mappps> i just spoke to my dad, its gonna be 32c in london today
<mappps> what the hell
<mappps> lol
<mappps> hotter than here
<zmoylan-pi> hotter in uk and ireland in someplaces than the med allegedly
<daftykins> "Weather for Guernsey, United Kingdom | Temperature: 72Â°F / 22Â°C; Humidity: 69%"
<daftykins> 22, @ 6am
<mappps> wow
<daftykins> my mates are telling me they're enjoying being at work XD
<mappps> hah
<daftykins> ugh 28 on the BBC weather app predicted for today
<mappps> hah
<mappps> daftykins,  how is the weather normally there
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> yo
<mappps> morning popey
<mappps> hows the south east?:) i was told it's rather hot, and i checked and woking's going to be 32c today!!
<popey> I'm in Germany, so dunno :)
<mappps> oh
<mappps> guten tag:)
<TwistedLucidity> o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Raspberry Cake Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8305118/prince_raspberry_beret/ the cake is a lie
<JamesTait> Clever, davmor2. âº
<davmor2> JamesTait: I thought you'd like it :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<zmoylan-pi> i'd wave but it's too hot...
<MooDoo> terrible isn't it :(
<zmoylan-pi> humidity 61% which is less than usual so it could be far worse
<MooDoo> don't worry though "Winter is coming" :)
<zmoylan-pi> thursday if irish forecasts are to be believed... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no it's not it's a lovely 21Â°C and what humidity don't you just love an aircon unit
 * zmoylan-pi casts out of warranty on davmor2's aircon...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: nope it's working fine :P
 * zmoylan-pi checks the footnotes and observes it's a fail at 0200 in the morning spell... :-P
<Myrtti> if anyone fancies pretty/cool flight/compression socks, http://nabeesocks.com/ has -50% due to moving manufacturing facilities.
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: oh that is fine it is turned off then so the spell will fail muhahahahaha beside if it does I'll just go buy a new one :D
 * zmoylan-pi licks thumb and flips the page to 'menopausal hot flashes spell'...
 * davmor2 snaps zmoylan-pi wand so it back fires on him
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<popey> hello
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: how do
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, I am ok,  just trying to sort out the venue for an event I am hoping to organise and probably for Linux Presentation Day as well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> how about you?
<davmor2> mostly tired
<davmor2> but good
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, where about's are you in UK?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> didn't you do stuff on Ubuntu Touch as well?
<davmor2> Yeap in the UK Wolverhampton
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and you did Ubuntu Touch?
<davmor2> I work on all things I'm in the QA team
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok cool :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, I got a great idea for an event :), but getting venue sorted out first properly etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> then i guess maybe get a few people from else where to come as well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> if goes to plan enough :)
<davmor2> good luck
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, may even show some UBuntu convergence and such at the event :d,  oh sure that may not be quite ready for general public, but could be worth having at an event ?
<diddledan_> bananarama
<zmoylan-pi> banana hammock
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> you pervert
<daftykins> i now imagine zmoylan-pi as the aged version of "The Todd" from Scrubs
<zmoylan-pi> the famous pain scale scene...
<zmoylan-pi> great show...
<davmor2> diddledan_: just came across this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTii7i-195E
<daftykins> one does not simply cover Phil Collins!
<davmor2> daftykins: no one has to do it damned well and this isn't the one I was looking for either :)
<diddledan_> davmor2: that's good
<daftykins> you're a spy!
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> i believe the correct term these days is an informer...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-20
<daftykins> i think a breeze is coming through at last!
<zmoylan-pi> lightning on west coast of ireland according to irish chatroom...
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: did you have to dig out the shorts? :>
<zmoylan-pi> it's a geeky chatroom were they can measure the rain by the degradation of their radio links for data...
<daftykins> yaaaay
<daftykins> what kind of data o0
<zmoylan-pi> nah, i was covered up today.  i did leave front of my fleece almost unzipped.  sweaty when i got home but i prefer to sweat than lie in bed at night trying not to touch bed with sunburnt skin
<zmoylan-pi> they provice internet via microwave links
<daftykins> ah
<zmoylan-pi> been irish if the moon shines too bright i get moonburn...
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> lots of people were walking about shirtless who are now probably whimpering lying in bed now
<daftykins> mmm i don't go in for the lazy act of sunbathing
<daftykins> i just hung about indoors in shorts
<daftykins> just stepped outside, nice breeze and i can see the full moon!
<daftykins> good morning team
<mapps> hi'
<mapps> alll hot and sticky again ugh
<daftykins> eww
<daftykins> finally cooled down enough for a shower here
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> got my fan on but just feel sweaty and hot
<mapps> ughh
<mapps> hear how trains stopped in the uk.melted tracks
<mapps> O_o
<daftykins> yeah, i don't get how they have such low tolerances
<daftykins> 50 deg C and they're bad? wat
<mapps> ya i was surprised
<daftykins> ah, only a few pages left of a book \o/
<daftykins> dunno whether to sleep or try a little work
<daftykins> still fixing up some old PCs :) almost done now
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<daftykins> good morning sir
<knightwise> workin on some old hardware I see ?
<daftykins> yeah, since i did my lovely skylake build i'm selling off my core 2 quad to a friend - and also come to possess a few more core 2 duo era machines
<daftykins> been fixing them up / finding faults and considering selling on via a local trade site
<knightwise> Running linux on 'em ?
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> might list it as an option for sale, but i don't think folk would spring for them so much that way
<daftykins> i wouldn't fancy the support ;)
<daftykins> just got a DVD writer on order, as right now one has a rather ugly white PATA drive which no longer reads CDs in it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> What a week to start exercising more often! need a shower at work at this rate :P
<daftykins> diplo: haha oh dear! what form of exercise? sprint to work? ;)
<diplo> Everything, I've been cycling, swimming, jogging and walking
<diplo> So cycle to and from work ( and other times ) walk 1-2 miles at lunch, jog a little later on, swim as and when  Ican
<MooDoo> diplo: ah so you're playing pokemon go ;)
<diplo> No!!!!!!
<diplo> God no even!
<diplo> When I'm on my walks, the amount of people who just stop randomly and flick their screens, pretty sure they're all playing....
<diplo> Good on them I guess for getting out, but the random stop starts is getting quite annoying
<daftykins> *Tux no ;)
<daftykins> yeah, it's only a matter of time i reckon before someone stops in their car and nobbles a cyclist
<diplo> I was out drinking last night, some guy swooped to a stop as we were wandering down a busy road, picked his phone ( i thought for a phone call ) no, my mate says he heard the distinctive noise of how you catch these things ( I've not played so don't know ! )
<diplo> But I mean he stopped fairly stupidly, for a bloomin game!
<daftykins> such was the thrill of the chase
<daftykins> did he have a deer stalker on?
<daftykins> ;]
<diplo> hah
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Moon Day! ð  ð
<MooDoo> morning
<foobarry> day off \o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7AR0-FRro and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B32yjbCSVpU
<davmor2> JamesTait: I could also quote the titles of the OST for werewolf in London definitely some moon songs there :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: including this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BmEGm-mraE
<daftykins> foobarry: aww and you still came to hang out!
<JamesTait> davmor2, Cat's in the Cradle though - I haven't listened to that in years!
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome
<davmor2> JamesTait: every chorus sings man in the moon :D
<JamesTait> Little Boy Blue and ...
<MooDoo> :)
 * daftykins slides everyone a cuppa
 * TwistedLucidity inspects cuppa...discovers it is not ice coffee...slides it back...
<daftykins> i'll have you know that's Thailand's finest!
<daftykins> lul, i'm installing Windows 10 on a core 2 duo machine, on my old 150GB WD velociraptor
<daftykins> it sounds like millions of bugs are fighting at once
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: it's okay leave long enough it will go cold you can drink it then
<zmoylan-pi>  
<foobarry> yeah daftykins i#m looking after the daughter at the mo
<foobarry> but sometimes it gets dull when she's dressing up dollies
<foobarry> trying to decide whether cheddar gorge caves or wookey hole for holiday
<diplo> Anyone else being affected by bt issues today ?
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Just had an alert come through from work, BT are having issues nation wide. Affects those leasing BT lines too (i.e. everyone who isn't on Virgin)
<daftykins> oof!
 * zmoylan-pi licks finger, holds it in the air to judge conditions and predicts bt will blame the heat... :-)
<diplo> Funny thing was ( this affected half our customers ) was that their lines were still up
<diplo> Just the ipsec vpn's were failing to connect
<diplo> Would love to know why
<davmor2> diplo: just cause, that's why :)
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Yup, seems to be taking out VPNs
<zmoylan-pi> the movie industry strikes back...
<diplo> Ah right, at least it wasn't just me
<daftykins> the good ol' Virtual Private Notwork
<davmor2> diplo: possibly down to compression at my best guess if it only took out 1/2
<diplo> Yeah, not really sure.. not sure how well BT talk about their major outages
<daftykins> annoyed me when my local ISP and our major telco decided they would no longer maintain a status page
<daftykins> they didn't seem to realise how many calls they'd spare themselves
<zmoylan-pi> but the guy who monitored the web page can answer calls AND do stuff when he's not answering calls...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i think today marks my 1 month no-going-to-Costa anniversary
<daftykins> yes it does! \o/
<foobarry> i managed 15 years of no costa
<foobarry> similar for starbucks :D
<daftykins> it's really been around that long?
<daftykins> we don't have a starbucks :)
<diplo> I don't go to either either
<diplo> Unless with someone who wants to, can't understand how people spend so much on coffee!!!!
<daftykins> for me, it's that they have a branch 20m from my front door
<diplo> but you have coffee in your house ?
<daftykins> wake up of a weekend and have nothing in the house? panino and coffee it is!
<daftykins> not the same thing.
<diplo> hah
<zmoylan-pi> people spending as much money on coffee per day as do for mobile phone service for 2-3 months... Oo
<daftykins> these are the downsides of living on the capital's high street
<daftykins> oh i can certainly say i was never as insane as to go daily... once or twice a week was my limit :)
<daftykins> also, it's all about the carrot cake
<diplo> hehe, the cake is stupidly dear too
<daftykins> does make you wonder what the entire thing pulls in, profit wise
<daftykins> sometimes you've just got to go out and live a bit, though!
<daftykins> ...so i'm told ;)
<zmoylan-pi> like outdoors and stuff?!
<daftykins> yeah!
<diddledan_> looks like BT's issues were due to power problems at telecity in docklands
<diddledan_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36844712
<DJones> Thats what they say,  I blame everybody trying to do their hair with staighteners and hairdryers so they don't go crinkly in the heat
<DJones> Thats using all the power
<DJones> BT Openreach are pretty useless anyway, been waiting almost 10 days for them to come and fix a fault on our voice line, excuse is there's too many faults and not enough staff.....  Erm.. Isn't that part of the infrastucture planning
<MooDoo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36844712
<zmoylan-pi> all those selfish people wanting to breath running air con...
<zmoylan-pi> they might have been looking up what a voice line is... :-P
<DJones> You'd think they'd know, its what spam callers use to send junk messages
<DJones> Surely they pay BT to not be banned and prosecuted for ignoring TPS preferences
<zmoylan-pi> if they knew what those were they'd have to do something about it
<DJones> As in backhanders
<zmoylan-pi> one way they get paid, the other they have more work and less paying
<foobarry> does anyone know about bike brakes? i was wondering about the sizes of the barrel/nut that screws into the lever assembly
<foobarry> its a junior 20 inch bike,
<foobarry> one of these http://imgur.com/a/uJi6g
<diddledan_> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/07/carbanak-gang-tied-to-russian-security-firm/
<davmor2> foobarry: they aren't standard you would be better off buying a new or secondhand one for the part
<m0nkey_> Grace Hopper explaining a Nano second.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEpsKnWZrJ8
<diddledan_> nice
<diddledan_> I want one
<diddledan_> is there an official store for purchasing of nanoseconds?
<m0nkey_> You could always make your own
<m0nkey_> She gives the length
<m0nkey_> 11.8 inches
<diddledan_> never mind the length, feel the width
<diddledan_> something about an actress and a bishop
<diddledan_> how long is a picosecond then?
<diddledan_> 0.3mm
<diddledan_> google's conversion thingy can't grok the correlation
<diddledan_> "1 picosecond in milimeters" it fails
<Myrtti> Thunder and lightning
<m0nkey_> Very, very frightening me!
<m0nkey_> diddledan_, need your regex skill again
<m0nkey_> from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost)
<m0nkey_> need to get the word, localhost
<m0nkey_> i thought helo=([^\)]*) might get it, but it doesn't
<ali1234> str.strip().split('=')[1][:-1]
<m0nkey_> needs to be regex
<m0nkey_> the received header could also be from: computername ([x.x.x.x])
<m0nkey_> I have a list of regex to test
<m0nkey_> which is why regex
<m0nkey_> nvm.. got it
<m0nkey_> i hate regex
<diddledan_> I made a thing: https://uappexplorer.com/app/unofficial-hexchat.diddledan
<diddledan_> I'm using it right now
<diddledan_> it works
<diddledan_> \o/
<daftykins> what's that site o0
<daftykins> nm read the page :P
<ball> daftykins: hamsterdance.com ?
<daftykins> < diddledan_> I made a thing: https://uappexplorer.com/app/unofficial-hexchat.diddledan
<daftykins> it would appear mr diddle of the dan made a snappy package for hexchat
<diddledan_> I did :-)
<diddledan_> and I'm in it now
<daftykins> *gasp*
<daftykins> i've got a box of 3 double chocolate magnum ice creams
<daftykins> i think the shrinkening has occurred, because they're a ridiculous size :|
<diddledan_> pokÃ©mon go has doubled nintendo's valuation making them more valuable than Sony
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan_> does the ubuntu community still use bazaar mostly?
<diddledan_> e.g. the various maintainers
<ali1234> depends how you define community
<ali1234> a lot of the new fangled stuff is being done in git
<ali1234> like snappy and juju
<daftykins> how bazaar, how bazaar ~
<ali1234> all the old stuff is still in bazaar because nobody got time to convert it
 * diddledan_ boshes daftykins 
<ali1234> launchpad supports git now though
 * SebthreeBQM10HD thinks Ubuntu convergence is starting to look more interesting now
 * SebthreeBQM10HD by certan videos that seen recently 
<diddledan_> grr. I wish the encfs package would give alternative options rather than just telling you it is insecure when you install it
<daftykins> diddledan_: DANGER DIDDLE ROBINSON!
<ali1234> i'm having a word blank. what's the word that means "morally neutral"? as in "science is <morally neutral>, it depends how you use the results"
 * diddledan_ diddles robinson
<diddledan_> ambivalent?
<ali1234> hmm... not really, but close
<diddledan_> ambiguous :-p
<ali1234> no :)
<daftykins> indifferent
<ali1234> doesn't really capture the moral aspect. i'm sure there's an exact word for this though
<diddledan_> promiscuous
<ali1234> lol
<diddledan_> corrups
<diddledan_> corrupt*
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> agnostic
<diddledan_> uninvested
<diddledan_> impartial
<diddledan_> ^^^^^ that one
<ali1234> impartial is good
<ali1234> i mean a good word for it
<diddledan_> unbiased would be another
<ali1234> that's the same as impartial. it's still no exactly right though
<diddledan_> clinical
<diddledan_> indifferent
 * diddledan_ has a thesaurus open
<daftykins> a Brighton high school excluded some students for wearing shorts on the hottest day of the year
<daftykins> good work schools :>
<diddledan_> daftykins, they were girls who had been told to wear skirts short enough you can see their difference
<daftykins> http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/14629093.Boys_excluded_from_lessons_after_wearing_shorts_on_hottest_day_of_the_year/?ref=mrb&lp=5
<diddledan_> annoying that girls often get told they cannot wear trousers
<daftykins> silly banner at the bottom to complain of adblocking usage, quick firefox inspection and 'node' deletion and bye bye!
<ali1234> amoral
<ali1234> that's it
<diddledan_> aha
<ali1234> that's the word i wanted
<ali1234> "lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something."
<diddledan> hmm, my hexchat is dead
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> it's trying to call fchown syscall which is banned
 * daftykins follows the support link
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> i'm quite glad i finished dealing with all these PCs, i hope i don't end up having to give them away though :P
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> money hopefully
<diddledan> they've been a pain for you so hopefully you can get a bit of a reward
<daftykins> i was just daft enough to persist with ones that were wonky in the past really
<daftykins> i've got 3 asus motherboards that are all funky in some shape or form, to the side of me
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-21
<diddledan> eesh
<diddledan> this "xen" fella doing the rounds on various ubuntu mailing lists seems to have a vendetta
<diddledan> anywho, I'm off to bed. nn
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> \o
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> a bloody Aussie with the same name as me has bought wine and signed up my personal email to it!
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> debating how unpleasant to be
<mapps> hah
<daftykins> gonna phone him :) got a # here on the account
<ali1234> i'm still getting junk email from america
<ali1234> after the job search they moved on to get rich quick schemes, and then gambling websites :/
<daftykins> ooh
<ali1234> you can almost feel the desperation
<daftykins> just heard the guys message saying my name as his in an aussie accent!
<ali1234> imagine if it turned out google had a bug, and actually loads of people had the same email address
<daftykins> nah, i went through the process once before with a woman in the midwest US, she had numbers after the "dkins" equivalent and just chose to sign up like an idiot
<daftykins> for a time she even began to use me as a human spam filter, as i kindly forwarded them... until i decided to take no more, reset her account password and cancelled her order.
<daftykins> there was something really satisfying about receiving an email which said "hello ma'am here is a copy of your email where you asked us to cancel your order" naturally sent to my address.
<ali1234> the only time i ever did that is when someone posted a craigslist "personals" ad using my email
<daftykins> oof
<zmoylan-pi> i picked 2 random words for an email account that vaguely describe me, a few years later i find a german metal band with the same name...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> dick und doof
 * daftykins runs
 * zmoylan-pi trips daftykins 
<daftykins> no... no... NOT THE PI!
<daftykins> ah nice, he did it already! i'm no longer reg'd to naked wines aus
<daftykins> neat he's emailing me XD
<zmoylan-pi> go with english is your second language in your responses... :-P
<MooDoo> hello all
<daftykins> \o
<amunizp> o/
<daftykins> gm
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Junk Food Day! ð  ð  ð
<daftykins> awww and i'm fresh out :(
<davmor2> JamesTait: just remember you did this to yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pgPq4FGWfk
<davmor2> JamesTait: this one might redeem though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK3ZP6frAMc cinema junk food :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ging> what is the best thing for screen casting on ubuntu these days?
<ging> the ubuntu wiki seems out of date
<ging> it says xvidcap
<ging> but it's not there in 14.04
<davmor2> ging: kazaam/recordmydesktop are the two I've used they seem to work
<davmor2> popey: did you get home in the end?
<ging> thanks davmor2
<ging> it's popey's fault, anyway it says he last updated the ubuntu wiki about screen casting
<ging> in 2009
<ging> i know people who weren't even born then
<popey> davmor2: ya
<popey> ging: simplesxreenrecorder or vokoscreen
<davmor2> popey: thank god for small mercies :)
<ging> :( but i've just started installing kazam
<ging> can any of them do a specific windows and audio?
<davmor2> most can
<ging> looks like kazam can
<popey> dont use kazam
<popey> others are better tgese days
<Myrtti> what kind of screencasting?
<ging> how many kinds are there?
<ging> i'm trying to record what i do on my screen into a video
<ging> with audio
<ging> i thought that was the only type of screencasting
<Myrtti> Internet live (a la Twitch), interactive (a la VNC and friends) and recorded (a la screencapture)
<ging> live screen casting seems like a really bad idea
<ging> i would need to purge my laptop of all bad things first
<Myrtti> well, a lot of gamers do it
<ging> do i count as a gamer now if i play a bit of pokemon go?
<ging> well turns out i need a new microphone to do it anyway, all this picks up is noise
<ging> but kazam seem to be ok for recording
<ging> what do the others do better?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 5
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> MORNING! I FEEL LIKE YELLING TODAY
<Myrtti> oh dear
<diddledan> ello Myrtti
<Myrtti> ello ello
<diddledan> oh dammit, I didn't yell
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> Myrtti: you forgot the "and what's going on 'ere" bit, you'll never pass for an English copper if you don't use the whole phrases ;)
<diddledan> davmor2: that and pissing by the door
<diddledan> zootropolis is fun
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<knightwise> zootropolis or zootopia ?
<zmoylan-pi> zoolander isn't bad either...
<knightwise> Zoolander i s awe-some
<diddledan> zootropolis
<diddledan> the recent disney film
<knightwise> diddledan: indeed. Great inside jokes, and some pretty strong message in the storyline too
<knightwise>  without getting too muchy
<diddledan> I love the dual message that anyone can achieve anything AND that we shouldn't discriminate
<knightwise> AND the snarky referral to "Frozen"
<Thudthrone>  /msg NickServ identify <145?JuiceBox145>
<diddledan> oops
<Thudthrone> fuck
<zmoylan-pi> double whoops
<knightwise> Thudthrone: Ouch
<knightwise> time to reset that pw
<Thudthrone> indeed
<knightwise> Would anyone like a juicebox while we wait ? :p
<zmoylan-pi> dibs on the itunes account... :-P
<Thudthrone> haha luckily i don't re-use pw's for this exact reason
<knightwise> Nah :) how bout teh Gmail one
<diddledan> Thudthrone: don't feel bad about it. I'm sure it's a common occurrence given the number of servers and respective channels
<zmoylan-pi> it is a weakness of irc that you see passwords like that regularly
<diddledan> in other musing, that's a pretty impressive password, too
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> the problem is it's so easy to accidentally have one or more space characters before the /
<ali1234> freenode supports identifying via AUTH so you can just put your password into your irc client. you don't need to msg nickserv
<Thudthrone> haha yeah it's a pretty ridiculous method of authentication
<diddledan> it'ld be nice if the clients or even servers would protect against it
<diddledan> ali1234: you need to know that though, when you register with nickserv it doesn't tell you about it :-(
<ali1234> well now you know
<zmoylan-pi> an ascii art version of clippy popping up and saying 'it looks like you're about to leak your nickname password, would you like to continue?'
<diddledan> I knew anyway. I mean for newcomers
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: awesome idea
<Thudthrone> i new it was only a matter of time before i messed it up.
<diddledan> I'm gonna have to unsubscribe from https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1573408
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1573408 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Xenial) "GNOME Software does not install third-party .deb packages" [High,Fix released]
<diddledan> random folk keep commenting on it saying that it still isn't fixed despite it being so
<diddledan> (I've tested on a fully-updated install and everything is normal)
<ali1234> it's broken in the installer image. people install then immediately try to install chrome and it fails
<diddledan> gotta love linkedin - just got an email about someone starting a forum topic whose title I can only read in a Jamaican accent: "Suggest me Wordpress Theme And Important Plugins to Build E-Commerce Website "
<diddledan> I would have expected the .1 release yesterday to have rectified that. maybe it hasn't
<ali1234> it should
<diddledan> does anyone have multiple monitors and ubuntu 16.04? I recently installed fresh onto this version and can't seem to get the "sticky edges" setting to actually change anything - the switch toggles but the edge between my monitors still catches my mouse
<DJones> diddledan: I do, I don't have any problems with sticky edges - Mine was upgrade from 15.10
<diddledan> DJones: does toggling the switch change anything?
<DJones> Give me a few minutes, will need to go and start the machine up in the office
<diddledan> lol, take your time :-)
<diddledan> I'm not going anywhere. ever
 * diddledan warns
<DJones> JUst realised when I booted up, its still on 15.10
<DJones> I know what I'll be doing tomorrow.  Upgrading :)
<DJones> I'll have a look tomorrow after I've upgraded & let you know
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> upgrades FTW
<zmoylan-pi> unless it's windows 10... but that's a given...
<diddledan> eesh that snowden movie looks terrible
<diddledan> ref: https://youtu.be/5OVHjPCOb3c
<zmoylan-pi> name 3 hollywood movies about hacking that weren't terrible
<diddledan> blackhat *ducks*
<daftykins> Hackers!
<diddledan> swordfishg
<diddledan> *ducks again*
<zmoylan-pi> hackers only worked as 1) angelina jolie 2) angelina jolie... umm sound track
<diddledan> angelina's jolies were good
<diddledan> that leather thingy
<zmoylan-pi> and the best hacking movie was madee in australia and has no computers in it...
 * daftykins ignored her and still enjoyed it
<zmoylan-pi> sneakers i really liked too
<diddledan> remember risc architecture is going to change everything
<zmoylan-pi> angelina was right about that
<diddledan> except it was johnny that said it
<zmoylan-pi> all those iphones can't be wrong
<diddledan> no you're right
<diddledan> johnny just agreed "yeah. risc is good"
<diddledan> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/06/stupid-patent-month-storage-cabinets-computer
<zmoylan-pi> gee, none of the filemanagers in last 30 years used a filing cabinet as an icon...
<zmoylan-pi> oh wait...
<daftykins> i thought ubuntu with unity did right now :>
<daftykins> oh i see, didn't read
<daftykins> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/mssmallbiz/2016/07/10/free-thats-right-im-giving-away-millions-of-free-microsoft-ebooks-again-including-windows-10-office-365-office-2016-power-bi-azure-windows-8-1-office-2013-sharepoint-2016-sha/
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> all the links in one file for shell scripting: http://www.mssmallbiz.com/ericligman/Key_Shorts/MSFTFreeEbooks.txt
<diddledan> for i in $(cat textfile); do wget $i; done
<diddledan> or `(while read i; do wget $i; done) < textfile`
<diddledan> I think that will do it
<zmoylan-pi> better off downloading bash scripting ebooks and getting it running under windows... ditto vim and manuals for same :-)
<daftykins> nah i saved the text and did "wget -i file.txt"
<diddledan> -i?
<daftykins> input file
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> funky
<daftykins> mines mooching away
<zmoylan-pi> thou shalt not allow a moocher into thy hut - homer
<diddledan> off to bed. nn
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> diddledan: but it's early!
<diddledan> yeah. gotta be up in the morning
<zmoylan-pi> not as early as it will be in 4 hours...
<daftykins> we need a new third member :<
<zmoylan-pi> we should get the band back together... ::reaches for sunglasses::
<zmoylan-pi> we're on a mission for linus...
<daftykins> i'd prefer Tux
<zmoylan-pi> tux is in black and white outfit... that would work...
<zmoylan-pi> we're on a misson for tux...
<daftykins> wget -i file.txt --trust-server-names # even
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of llamas wandering about the room tonight...
<daftykins> Mark Llama, Gerbil Farmer.
<zmoylan-pi> i'd hate to harvest gerbils... those buggers can bite
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-22
<daftykins> they're at it again!
<mapito> hi7
<mapito> finised s1 bloodline yay
<MooDoo> ooo heard about that, not watched it yet
<mapito> pretty decent
<mapito> will start s2 later toda
<mapito> today
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapito> stranger things sounds good too....good ratings
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> david_llamas: sort out your connection!
<mapito> i watch tv while doing cardio at the gym
<mapito> on my tablet;]
<daftykins> well that's an improvement
<mapito> to cardio?:D a
<mapito> ya
<daftykins> well to the idea i had that you just watched this crap back to back at home :>
<mapito> crap
<mapito> pfff
<mapito> do i start got or bones next hmm
<MooDoo> both equally as good
<mapito> maybe csi too
<daftykins> :>
<knightwise> morning everyon e
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<knightwise> how are you today
<daftykins> all good here ty sir! and yourself?
<daftykins> just about to leap in a shower i think
<knightwise> Just did that. Updating my resume on some freelancers sites .. got to catch a new assignment by september
<daftykins> ah har
<knightwise> for the rest might be tinkering with turning my PI into a Tor router today
<knightwise> too bad I cant find any ready to go images of that anywherre
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> we have llama trouble
<knightwise> hey david_llamas
<knightwise> lama trouble ?
<daftykins> llama drama
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> oh dear, didn't realise the walls had THOSE ears
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> watch out for llamas!
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> yeah those Dali the are like ninja of peace, they'll peace you to death, you won't know what hit you
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Hammock Day! ð
<brobostigon> http://web.musicaficionado.com/main.html#!/article/Ian_Anderson_My_Best_And_Worst_Gigs_Of_All_Time
<davmor2> JamesTait: got ya covered with the smoothest longest hammock in song form https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpAPpTYDjEY
 * JamesTait yawns, goes back to bed.
<diddledan> edward snowden is making news again: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/07/22/edward-snowden-iphone-case-guard-radio-snitching/
<diddledan> morning all
<diddledan> apparently I have got blood. though two bottles less than when I got-up this morning
<diddledan> naughty nurse decided she wanted some of it
<diddledan> I tried charging Â£5/bottle but she was having none of it
<davmor2> JamesTait: only song I could think of that had a hammock in it :)  But Franks voice is still hard to beat for mellow easy listening
<diddledan> davmor2: he still hasn't beaten you yet thebn
<diddledan> then*
 * diddledan beats davmor2 . hard.
<davmor2> diddledan: up a bit......oh thanks that itch was really starting to annoy
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: o/
<daftykins> diddledan: watch out for llamas
<diddledan> \o
<diddledan> I'll get winamp because that whips the llamas ass
<daftykins> i'm using it right now!
<daftykins> heh the project got taken over but there hasn't been a release in like 2 years
<diddledan> lol. I didn't even know it was still going
<diddledan> it was a stalwart of 90s teenagers' desktops
<diddledan> including mine
<diddledan> it was winamp I think that pioneered the "visualisation" concept
<daftykins> AOL ditched it i think, but "they" managed to pinch it
<daftykins> http://www.winamp.com/ still useless link to the forum
<davmor2> diddledan, daftykins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBaUmx5s6iE
 * daftykins clicks
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ARIBA
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> I love python
 * daftykins goes to Ada's snack bar (at the end)
<diddledan> lol @ tape recorder
<davmor2> you're welcome
<daftykins> ugh got a 14.04 file server that only sometimes comes back up on reboot
<diddledan> of course the python guys consider they failed because they were trying to be uncategorisable but now they're categorised as pythonesque
<daftykins> when i go to it, it's booted fine, but the network interface isn't sending packets at all
<diddledan> daftykins: it's the disks
<daftykins> i checked that XD
<diddledan> daftykins: with you, it's _always_ the disks
<daftykins> nooooo!
<daftykins> sometimes it's the capacitors!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> omg
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah but they were only categorisable after they were successful up until then they were meh
<daftykins> i know! not a one trick pony after all
<daftykins> i can murder other things too! er i mean diagnose..
<diddledan> you call that a trick?
<daftykins> yeah let me show you on your new machine...
 * daftykins gets up to stroll closer
<diddledan> lol
 * diddledan makes a sign of the cross to ward-off the evil that approaches
 * daftykins sends his cat in his stead
<diddledan> cats are the keepers of the underworld
<diddledan> that's why you get the egyptians revering them: https://youtu.be/u3XXKF0oDtU?t=86
<diddledan> love that movie
<diddledan> omg, the llamas got to david!
<diddledan> 11:05 â david_llamas quit (~david_lla@ns.inchcolm.net) Ping timeout: 276 seconds
<diddledan> I'm somewhat concerned that he appears to be IRCing on a nameserver host tho
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> true, he could be bringing every llama into disrepute
<diddledan> http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/07/select-committee-inquire-concludes-uk-needs-radical-broadband-upgrade.html
<daftykins> wow Dido has branched out into telco topics
<daftykins> good on her
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> http://www.anandtech.com/show/10510/nvidia-announces-nvidia-titan-x-video-card-1200-available-august-2nd
<daftykins> good lord
<ali1234> wow, that's actually quite reasonably priced
<ali1234> or at least it would be if the pound wasn't in the toilet
<daftykins> but then it's tech, so maybe that $1,200 would translate to ripoff Britain Â£1,200 anyway ;D
<ali1234> yeah probably
<davmor2> daftykins: no you forgot the state of the Â£ currently be closer to Â£2000 ;)
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I'll take two
<diddledan> ooh, mr robot season 2 is on amazon prime (uk)
<diddledan> they're releasing new episodes every thursday
<diddledan> oh dear :-( http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36866141
<diddledan> also pokÃ©mon players are a pain: https://twitter.com/SpaldingPolice/status/756263789209784322
<diplo> yeah been watching Mr Robot already
<Myrtti> I've kinda not gotten it in the first two episodes
<Myrtti> first series was somewhat clear cut
<diplo> I'd say the same Myrtti
<diplo> I thought it was just me :D
<diddledan> it's certainly different to the first season
<diddledan> if anything it confused me
<DJones> diddledan: Just finished the upgrade on my desktop with dual screen, no problems with sticky edges in 16.04, but toggling the switch doesn't make any difference
<diddledan> ok, the switch is broke then methinks
<DJones> I suspect so, mine was set to off when I upgraded, so presumably has stayed like that regardless of how I change the switch
<diddledan> a new install comes with the sticky turned-on so the broken switch means I can't turn it off
<diddledan> wonder what package the bug needs to be filed-under
 * diddledan searches launchpad to see if there's one already reported
<DJones> I couldn't see anything recent, all seem to go back to 14.04 and earlier
<diddledan> ok, reporting a new bug on unity-control-center
<diddledan> #1605603
<diddledan> no bot to give the link?
<diddledan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1605603
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1605603 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Sticky-edges toggle in system settings doesn't change behaviour" [Undecided,New]
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> dumb bot
<DJones> I've just added a comment to confirm what you'd posted
<diddledan> thanks :-)
<diddledan> david_llamas: your connection is broken
<davmor2> diddledan: you need bug in front I think :P
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> as in [BUG] it's broken FIX IT NAO
<diddledan> ??
<DJones> bug 1605603
<lubotu3> bug 1605603 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Sticky-edges toggle in system settings doesn't change behaviour" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605603
<diddledan> aah
<DJones> Like taht
<diddledan> gotcha
<diddledan> that was 10 minutes ago. you can't expect me to associate some random references
<diddledan> s/some/such/
<diddledan> my Brian is that of a goldfish
<diddledan> more than 4 minutes and I've forgotten
<davmor2> diddledan: sorry I play catchup from time to time on channels this was one of them :P
<diddledan> this "xen" fella on ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list really doesn't understand how parallel things happen, you know, in parallel
<diddledan> he specifically wants a 5-step startup progress-meter that has the phases he believes are happening serially
<diddledan> ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-July/016777.html
<diddledan> "unlocking cryptography" sounds like the kind of thing the NSA would like to have
<diddledan> or maybe it's gamification: "achievement unlocked: cryptography"
<diddledan> this is a nice feel-good story about a teen who actually sounds coherent: https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/21/boat-thieves-thwarted-by-teens-with-a-phantom-drone/
<diddledan> what? netflix works on the pi?!
<diddledan> @720p
<diddledan> ref: https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/tutorial-chromium-netflix-and-another-drm-video-websites/7185
<knightwise> Dont you just "Love" the smell of paper when you read a real book? http://imgur.com/a/T7xYm
<daftykins> hmmmmmm
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> lo
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, lol
<daftykins> ...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ,,,
<knightwise> hmm.. looking for a cheap Thinkpad to use as a test machine
<knightwise> any suggestions what might be a good machine ? I want to play around a little bit with kali linux and stuff
<daftykins> ah the pen testing itch - probably the only thing that matters there is a wifi card Kali likes, though that only used to matter for packet injection for wifi cracking back in the day
<daftykins> Lenovos / IBMs were always notorious for having whitelist BIOSs that only let certain wifi cards work
<daftykins> guy i know that loves his Thinkpads says: X220 or T420
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 1
<penguin42> 2
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 3
<zmoylan-pi> b
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a
<zmoylan-pi> &
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and
<penguin42> or
<SebthreeBQM10HD> you
<penguin42> v
<SebthreeBQM10HD> i
<penguin42> ii
<SebthreeBQM10HD> gedit
<penguin42> vi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> vim
<penguin42> :qa!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> quality assurance
<penguin42> quality street
<SebthreeBQM10HD> chocolate
<penguin42> nothing beats chocolate
<SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe Linux does :D
<penguin42> it's difficult to say which one of them occupies more of my life
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Linux for me
<penguin42> probably, but there's a lot of chocolate involved in mine as well :-)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok you chocolate penguin or big piggy :d
<penguin42> a bit of both :-)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I do have some chocolate penguins up stairs i THINK
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a packet, or wait no no I don't
<penguin42> you eat them didn't you?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> went for the kit kats instead, since in that particular shop was more than the usaul price
<SebthreeBQM10HD> penguin42, I think one pound is about right for a packet of penguins,  not one pound 65
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or so
<penguin42> right
 * penguin42 has put on a kg or two in the last few weeks working his way through the closing Netto store's 50% off Karen Volf's chocolate bisuits and cakes
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and Netoo hmm I have heard of those, but not sure where my nearest one would be
<penguin42> they're mostly up here in the North - and rapidly shutting down; their first few days of 50% off were like the scenes you see when a hurricane or something is coming
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh right
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah that would be it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> then I guess
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I am in south west so
<penguin42> oh probably don't have something as common down there
<SebthreeBQM10HD> penguin42, hmm mcolls ? but that's not closing
<SebthreeBQM10HD> w h smith is all over and again not closing
<penguin42> SebthreeBQM10HD: WHSmiths hav every odd chocolate pricing; the one in the centre of Manc has ludicrously high prices but often puts the short-dated ones on good offers
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah sometimes get a good chocolate deal in w h smith
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but depends on which one to I guess
<SebthreeBQM10HD> like you seem to be saying
<penguin42> mind you this afternoon I had a chocolate ice cream from a closing BHS in liverpool - I've not seen a BHS with a full food section before; full 50% off
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> nice
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ice cream
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 1
<fujisan> help
<penguin42> not a bad Beatles song
<fujisan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI i bought my gf a dell with ubuntu and then this happened
<fujisan> poor girl got trolled by ubuntu
<fujisan> :(
<fujisan> Ubuntu Causes Girl To Drop Out of College
<fujisan> that's like my trolling x infinity
<fujisan> and ubuntu wasnt even trying
<fujisan> christel jeg elsker deg :)
<christel> fujisan: takk
<fujisan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP8CNp-vksc according to this guru penguin42 ubuntu has ethical flaws
<fujisan> Richard Stallman
<fujisan> :) christel
<fujisan> i do like GNU/Linux
<fujisan> RMS doesn't like Ubuntu -_-
<fujisan> lol is this really true?
<fujisan> what he claims that ubuntu is spyware
<fujisan> i think freenode needs a software ethics channel
<fujisan> and a tribunal
<Myrtti> quite old ones, don't you think?
<fujisan> Myrtti ?
<fujisan> perhaps im not here to troll
<fujisan> im going away again next week i work again
<fujisan> im a serious person these days
<mapps> poor germany, doesnt seem safe there these days
<fujisan> yes very sad i have frands in munich read that as well today
<SebthreeBQM10HD> just saw on bbc one news
<fujisan> seems like the world is getting worse all the day im afraid it will escalate soon
<fujisan> and that people will turn on eachother
<fujisan> i saw this in a movie once
<fujisan> the Siege old movie
<fujisan> after many terrorist attacks in the movie the military decided to just collect all foreign people or who looked foreign and lock them up wether they committed a crime or not
<fujisan> that's my fear
<fujisan> every attack that scenario seems to get one step closer
<fujisan> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133952/ this movie btw
<fujisan> technically it's possible
<fujisan> in some countries
<mapps> yea these das many attacks recently
<mapps> look at the axe attac, the truck in france
<mapps> all recent
<fujisan> scary times
<zmoylan-pi> terrorism attacks are about publicity.  for all their showiness you are still far more likely to be hurt by car accident, tumble at home
<fujisan> lol that's not my fear
<fujisan> as stated above eventually you might get martial law declared
<fujisan> like they had in Brussels
<fujisan> that seems really horrible to me
<mapps> ya more likely maybe zmoylan-pi
<mapps> its still bad
<mapps> fujisan,  but if somewhere isnt safe have to do something
<fujisan> a girl from my class was in a car accident she didnt survive
<fujisan> i was in school with her for many years
<mapps> ;[
<fujisan> i know i have a severe social phobia
<fujisan> was in therapy for many years
<zmoylan-pi> you can pick your age group to see what is most likely to be your cause of death... http://visual.ons.gov.uk/what-are-the-top-causes-of-death-by-age-and-gender/
<mapps> pff dont want to
<mapps> morbid heh
<fujisan> when im going to work in the train to commute i also have fears when people bring in huge suitcases
<fujisan> this paranoia is the worse actually
<fujisan> on airports they at least check luggage but on the trains they dont
<mapps> started blododline s2 nw
<mapps> cool series
<fujisan> im more into reading these days
<fujisan> limit my tv watching 2 eps per week
<fujisan> Myrtti  do you like bulletproof coffee?
<fujisan> nvm i shouldnt have asked
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-23
<mapps> morning
<fujisan> morning mapps
<fujisan> mapps  i see that you wake up early
<fujisan> my goal is t reach 4:45 am
<fujisan> daily but im not there yet
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> morn o/
<daftykins> i see we still have a llama problem
<bittin> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<diddledan> My brother-in-law has gone and got himself an audi rs4
<diddledan> It goes. A lot.
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home
<daftykins> this looks fun
<DJones> diddledan: Looking at the specs for RS4, top speed is 155MPH at 26.4MPG, my Diesel Insignia Estate does 140MPH at around 45MPG, I think I'd give up the extra 15 MPH for the extra 20 MPG :)
<DJones> Specially with a 70 MPH speed limit
<diddledan> DJones: that's the limited top speed
<DJones> Although, as they say, the speed limit is 30 MPH, there's nothing to say you can't start at 30 :)
<zmoylan-pi> but does the rs4 run linux...
<diddledan> It'll actually go over 170
<DJones> Yeah, I can see that, is he moving to Germany to go on the autobahns
<diddledan> It'll do 0-60 in less than 5seconds!
<diddledan> And no, not moving to Germany
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: did your bro have the pass the usual Audi "prove you can drive 4 inches from from the car in front" before purchase?
<diddledan> No idea
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmm
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm quite some variation in cost of a Pi 3
<diddledan> It's supposed to be 35$
<diddledan> Which means upwards of Â£670
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ooh we have a winner! amazon UK sell the starter kit for the 2 at Â£50 - that comes to Â£41.67 in taxless rock moneys
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00T638EFA/
<diddledan> Lucky get
<daftykins> no need for wifi in my plan
<daftykins> meh got teased by faster specs too much
<daftykins> Â£43.50 on amazon for a 3, just doesn't have cables but pssh who doesn't
<zmoylan-pi> as a true geek you have 6000 cables tanlged up in huge ball for when you need a spare cable...
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: aren't you pleased? i'll own a Pi! :O
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't everyone? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> you never know if commodore wants to hold the record for most manufactured of single computer they'll have to start production again too... :-P
<daftykins> i didn't until now :P
<daftykins> if this works well, i may end up putting a few in for a full synced music setup at a clients, all around his huge house
<zmoylan-pi> have you checked your cable ball recently? rasp pis are like coat hangers and appear out of nowhere...
<zmoylan-pi> nice
<daftykins> i've never even seen one in the flesh
<zmoylan-pi> often buried in tiny case behind a screen
<daftykins> naw
<daftykins> i'll see how the audio quality is then maybe consider - https://www.hifiberry.com/dacplus/
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> there is a valve based amp for pi's if onboard doesn't cut it... :-)
<daftykins> well the above uses a Burr Brown DAC so that'd be fine
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/distribution-world/raspberry-pi-goes-hi-fi-with-audio-valve-amp-2016-04/
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/HiFiBerry-DAC-Pro-HifiBerry/dp/B017L7K4BE/ Â£42 >_<
<zmoylan-pi> more expensive than the computer you're adding it to...
<daftykins> well, identical price to the kit that makes a bare Pi 3 usable
<daftykins> unit, case and PSU are Â£43 on my order
<zmoylan-pi> that's 3 things though
<daftykins> all it has to do is take FLAC or less input and spit it out to stereo over HDMI, that might prove decent enough
 * zmoylan-pi is thankful my ears are ok with mp3s and i don't need to use flac
<daftykins> it's not even particularly about that, it's about going from CD once and storage being cheap :)
<zmoylan-pi> not when it's mobile devices... phones still seem stuck in <128gb territory
 * zmoylan-pi finishes off the last of the cheese and crackers and prepares to limp to shops...
<knightwise> afternoon
<daftykins> pop in my telco on the high street here, ask why i can text the US and they can't text me
<daftykins> two youngsters far too fresh in the face, "err it's either a problem with their end or here" - well done Junior Sherlock!
<knightwise> afternoon peepz
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> i almost sent mr.llama an email to sort things out :P
<knightwise> damn
<knightwise> i'm gonna have to move my router
<knightwise> wifi reception in the garden is a bit spiffy
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> spiffy sounds like a word for good, to me!
<daftykins> just add an AP :P
<knightwise> daftykins: yeah , probably will setup a repeater in my wifes office or something
<knightwise> Prepping tomorrows podcast episode
<daftykins> :( i avoid wifi repetition, horrible attempt at tech :)
<daftykins> either a cable, or a WAP on the end of a powerine adapter perhaps ^_^
<knightwise> Glossy screens .. i hate em !
<SuperEngineer> knightwise: get some sandpaper. Apply liberally to gloost screen
<SuperEngineer> *glossy
<knightwise> heheh
<knightwise> Might work in deed
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<knightwise> Working outdoors for the moment. Its too damn hot lately
<SuperEngineer> Seeems like a case of "fridge has not got enough room to fit knightwise inside"
<SuperEngineer> Me.. inside... sitting by a nice breezy window
<knightwise> What machine are you workin on SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> oooh, Microsoft, there's a new name for a cloud release uyou can have frr of charge... Windows Breezy
<SuperEngineer> [working on own home-built pc
<daftykins> just done more vacuuming myself, but oof that's far too hot work
<SuperEngineer> [screen strategically placed next to TV so I can watch the F1 qually anfd the anniversary games
<SuperEngineer> nooooooooooooooooooooo.... not vacuuming - not allowed!!
<SuperEngineer> My duties today: back up both pc's, update 3 systems on this pc, 2 on other pc, update both netbooks and the HP mini... & get hair cut
<SuperEngineer> all done [& no more pony tail] :-(
<SuperEngineer> it's nice having a day off - even better when it's an F1 weekend [and your only plan left is to have a lie-in tommorrow morning]
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> back to short hair eh?
<SuperEngineer> yes, no more hippy stylie :-(
<SuperEngineer> talking of hippies...
<SuperEngineer> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/07/batten-down-the-hatches-navy-accused-of-pirating-585k-copies-of-vr-software/
<daftykins> nothing in that title suggests hippy to me :P
<SuperEngineer> a bunch of back-biting, funny hat wearing hippy haters ;-) [& now -pirateers]
<daftykins> mmhmm
<SuperEngineer> unlike our good lads & lasses of the sea ;-)
<SuperEngineer> *lassies
<SuperEngineer> .... *we* wouldn't put a foot wrong anywhere or anytime... surely we wouldn't![/me checks history & retracts that]
<m0nkey_>  ... so I set-up our small inflatable pool for the kids to play this afternoon and a big nasty storm rolls in :(
<SuperEngineer> m0nkey_: turn the pool upside down, tell it you're not a Windows user, you are a Linux user.... that should sort it :-)
<SuperEngineer> ...if it doesn't - hide under the upside down pool!
<SuperEngineer> and pretend you're enjoying it
 * m6lpi gets confused as to why an Ubuntu server 16.04 needs 'iw' installed...
<m6lpi> especially when it's installed as a VM guest...
<daftykins> don't say this is a minimalism kick...
<m6lpi> it was more a WTF moment when installing
<m6lpi> followed by "how many terminal multiplexers do I actually want?"
<zmoylan-pi> more multiplexors than you can shake a keyboard shortcut at...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-24
<mapps> hi all
<knightwise> hey mapps
<mapps> washing my sheets and they arent dry
<mapps> going to have to sleep on a bare matress
<mapps> hm
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey bro
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<knightwise> how you doing today brobostigon
<brobostigon> knightwise: could be better, its been a worrying few weeks, and you?
<knightwise> doin ok , some rumminations here too. need to switch contracts in september , so thats always stressfull
<knightwise> what has you grindind your gears
<brobostigon> grinded?
<knightwise> grinding your gears (as in worrying)
<brobostigon> my partner is ill in hospital, because her being pregnant is setting off her bipolar, and she has been in hospital two weeks now.
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed she's feeling better soon brobostigon :-(
<brobostigon> yes definatly, i hope so too, thanks zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> oh brobostigon :( tht doesnt sound too good. We are rootin for  her
<brobostigon> knightwise: yes, definatly isnt good, thank you.
<knightwise> hormones are a funny thing , the misses had some issues with it too.
<brobostigon> yes definatly, we did anticipate it would play with her hormones, but nowhere near this bad.
<knightwise> True, small imbalances can have quite severe concequences.
<knightwise> Misses here took some anti inflamatories against a bugbite on Friday, but sure as you know, it affected her system.
<brobostigon> thats not good.
<knightwise> yeah ..
<knightwise> How long before she is due ?
<brobostigon> roughly 35 weeks.
<knightwise> still a ways to go. Hope everything turns out ok. We are rooting for you
<brobostigon> yes, me too, thank you.
<daftykins> o0
<SuperEngineer> curent status:  - busy watching F1 -
<daftykins> yawn :)
 * zmoylan-pi mulls walking to nearby hill to watch air show or into town for nice long walk home...
<SuperEngineer> I beg your pardnobs>! - was that a yawn I heard there?  Oh well, no accounting for some peeps bad taste.
<daftykins> and here's me struggling to work up the effort to pop and buy some milk ;)
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: precisely :D
<SuperEngineer> [& Grands Prix have air shows!}
<SuperEngineer> ssshhh  - busy watching F1 -
<zmoylan-pi> watching the 1% arriving in personal helicopters is not an airshow... :-P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hey you can have one for the road now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko7eNx0zAuI
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: your lack of knowledge of what actually happens is surprising :-D
<SuperEngineer> ssshhh  - busy watching F1 -
<zmoylan-pi> nice video daftykins, i am suprised no one has made a kit addon for the pi's yet
<daftykins> probably realise how much utility they lack ;)
<daftykins> i'll have fun making a squeezebox clone out of the pi 3 i ordered though, need to have a look at why my left monitors' built in card reader no longer shows up
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: there is one it's called the pitop
<zmoylan-pi> there is now also one for android phones coming out... $99 i think instead of the $299 for the pitop... pity it's for android though
<zmoylan-pi> right, time for a walk...
<knightwise> At the local coffeeshop
<knightwise> Vpn'ed into my vps in amsterdam
 * knightwise dont like open wifi
<daftykins> ;]
<knightwise> atom however doesnt like the sshuttle vpn
<knightwise> crashin on me
<daftykins> atom? shuttle?
<knightwise> sshuttle is my ssh vpn
<knightwise> atom my text editor;
<knightwise> seems to have issues
<knightwise> very odd
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> is it working on remote files or something?
<diddledan> morning
 * penguin42 yaaaawwwwnnnnss at diddledan
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> afty gents
<penguin42> hey
<daftykins> hmm i'm browsing around tech related videos on youtube, not something i've really done before o0
<daftykins> i was used to the majority of content on there being impossible to tolerate!
<daftykins> well it comes close... guy puts an nvidia 1080 in an HTPC build
<daftykins> oy.
<diddledan> in a webpage the default 8px margin on <body> is there because mosaic did it that way and nobody ever thought to change it
<daftykins> when do you see that?
<diddledan> daftykins: when you're making your own page from scratch and haven't overridden it yet
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> diddledan: did you say your keyboard of choice on the desktop is an Apple one still?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> I like my apple keyboard
<diddledan> annoying that windows won't support the keymap though
<daftykins> i thought you could get helper progs
<knightwise> diddledan: agreed
<knightwise> I got a logitech bluetooth mac keyboard that supports both osx and ios
<knightwise> The funny thing is , the linux keymapping is not always correct
<diddledan> yeah linux is wonky on this with the Â§ and ` keys switched e.g.
<knightwise> th@ sign is incorrectly mapped whehen you use and external bluetooth keyboard (its fine when you use the onboard one)
<knightwise> diddledan: exTREMEly annoying bug
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> at least they got Â£ and # the right way about with both on the same key (the 3-key) where shift+3 = Â£ and r-alt+3 = #
<diddledan> that's in buntu
<diddledan> of course if I were to hackintosh it then it'ld work :-p
<diddledan> I get confused between ctrl+c for copy and cmd+c for copy between macos and non-macos
<knightwise> diddledan: Know what you mean
<knightwise> I have a french keyboard layout
 * diddledan bemoans foreigners :-p
<knightwise> so its even worse
<diddledan> apparently the majority of britain hates you lot
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> bloomin brexit :-(
<penguin42> I think most of the world hates the french keyboard layout - have you seen where the numbers are?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I've not seen a french keyboard
<diddledan> azerty?
<diddledan> qwertz is Gernal?
<diddledan> German*8
<knightwise> azerty
<knightwise> penguin42: i am unfortunately used to it
<knightwise> should have switched years ago
<daftykins> diddledan: yip
<diddledan> yipyip
 * diddledan yips like a yippy dogh
<diddledan> dog
<diddledan> I'm not concentrating on my typing fingers today methinks
<diddledan> too many mistakes
<diddledan> too many mistakes is to what as too many secrets is to setec astronomy
<penguin42> diddledan: The letter layout is odd enough, but the number layout is much harder
<penguin42> diddledan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZERTY   the numbers are shifted
<diddledan> penguin42: are they at least in some sort of order? or are they just scattered randomly?
<knightwise> no they arent, you just have to presh shift to  access the numbers
<diddledan> https://blog.stackoverflow.com/2016/07/introducing-stack-overflow-documentation-beta/
<daftykins> this is pretty sweet, my friend is at a Houston baseball game which i'm watching on stream live
<daftykins> (so, Texas of course)
<ikonia> he's personally streaming it?
<zmoylan-pi> with written permission from baseball association?
<ikonia> just wondered how he was streaming it
<zmoylan-pi> or isn't there a twitter thing now that streams them
<daftykins> no i am subscribed to MLB, it's just that she's there *live* :)
<zmoylan-pi> as opposed to been in stasis... :-P
<daftykins> i'm about a minute or more behind reality, mind you ;)
<daftykins> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn_gSAgVMAAyEEQ.jpg:large yay Crucial RAM
<diddledan> "US Democratic Party chair to resign after leaked emails suggest party insiders tried to sabotage Sanders campaign bbc.in/29TIYkO"
<zmoylan-pi> see, this is why you use outlook and exchange... they go down so often and lose so much information that you always have plausible deniability... :-P
<diddledan> and oof: http://www.revk.uk/2016/07/blizzard-withdrawing-support-for-ipv6.html
<zmoylan-pi> and support for pigeons?
<diddledan> that's the replacementy
<zmoylan-pi> but only blizzard bred pigeons of course
<daftykins> ugh neighbour is playing a film with his window wide open, it's bouncing right off the wall in this tiny lane and straight into mine, or through the wall for the bass
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully not seven samurai, great movie but goes on forever...
<daftykins> nah Deadpool by the sounds of it ;)
<zmoylan-pi> shout out plot spoilers... :-P
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> HE'S NOT UNBREAKABLE
<daftykins> "the girl dies!"
<diddledan> ...which leads to comic effect
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> OMG
 * daftykins made it up
<diddledan> you forgot the spoiler prefix :-p
<daftykins> but it's a lieeeee
<diddledan> how about you play the same movie 1 minute ahead
<diddledan> with the audio equally loud
<daftykins> i'd have to move all my gear into the bathroom to have a chance!
<daftykins> i first noticed this guys lack of common decency when i was on the throne, i could hear what he was watching immediately through the wall
<zmoylan-pi> spoiler prefix is not necessary as you're in your own home...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'm a good neighbour
<daftykins> i can accept loud, but totally wide open window too?
<daftykins> maybe when it was the heat wave, but it's quite cool again now
<daftykins> plus he set his TV up in the floor upstairs compared to every other prior tenant
<zmoylan-pi> be thankful he's not watching porn at 11 volume...
<diddledan> ooh good idea
 * diddledan puts porn on
<zmoylan-pi> and play farm animal noises on a different track to really really confuse them...
<diddledan> why? there's farm animal noises in the porn track
 * daftykins imitates a giraffe dying, out the window
<diddledan> wow oracle issued updates to everything this month
<diddledan> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/security-advisory/cpujul2016-2881720.html
<zmoylan-pi> do it while every sysadmin is on holiday... :-)
<diddledan> http://venturebeat.com/2016/07/24/yahoo-will-reportedly-be-acquired-by-verizon-in-4-8-billion-deal/?utm_content=buffer10458&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<diddledan> ewww . sorry for the evil link
<zmoylan-pi> if you want a really evil url... http://shadyurl.com/
<zmoylan-pi> i did like the news that the oil trading industry has been using yahoo im for ages as the defacto standard and that is been shut down so they're scrambling to find a new service
<isleofmandan> Ever since OTA-11, my phone can't connect to my wifi. I've just upgraded my laptop to 16.04 and it couldn't either using the applet, but yet it can if I use nmtui. Does that give a clue as to how I can make phone work?
<daftykins> turned the AP / router off and back on? i once helped a person for far too long which this fixed.
<daftykins> they had lied about doing it the first time
<daftykins> ugh this undesirable neighbour has their TV mounted against the wall onto my place
<isleofmandan> I have 3 access points, and it's consistent across all of them. (I've rebooted them all too!). I think it's a problem cause by me using maximum length SSID and maximum length WPA2 passphrases. If I create a hotspot with my phone with short name and key, it's fine.
<daftykins> so change them and confirm?
<daftykins> you shouldn't let any unreasonable security paranoia encroach on functionality
<isleofmandan> I think that's the conclusion I'm coming to, but it's clearly a regression. Laptop was fine on earlier Ubuntu and so was phone! What does nmtui do that applet doesn't?
<daftykins> ok but as soon as you *confirm* you can produce logs and file a bug
<daftykins> but if your nickname is to be believed, then you're somewhere that anyone could care less about hacking a wifi network :) so again the sanity over settings comes into question
<isleofmandan> Ah that would be a good idea, wouldn't it. I'm rubbish at knowing which logs to include and what to file in bug reports though!  Let me go reconfigure one of AP's and see...
<daftykins> the first respondant would ask for more if they needed it, i'm sure
<isleofmandan> proved my theory. Shortening the passphrase allows connection. I've not changed the SSID.
<isleofmandan> ubuntu phone can now connect too, so it probably has same bug
<diddledan> sherlock 4 trailer: https://www.facebook.com/Sherlock.BBCW/videos/869598476474082/
<diddledan> isleofmandan: if you can figure-out the exact maximum length of the password to add into a bug report I'm sure whoever looks at it will be grateful
<isleofmandan> OK. I'll have a play. Might just go pour a beer first... ;)
<diddledan> beer is always useful
<daftykins> isleofmandan: you're sure it isn't over spec?
<daftykins> like how many characters are we talking, before and after?
<diddledan> isleofmandan: if you feel inclined, then check that it also fails with a password of all a's at a longer-length within spec
<daftykins> that sounds good
<diddledan> daftykins: unlike your neighbour's telly :-p
<diddledan> telly doesn't sound good :-D
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> well judging from the range it probably isn't so bad in there, for us neighbours however...
<isleofmandan> One AP was set at 32 chars, the other APs are 30 chars. So 30 is too many.
<isleofmandan> I think they can be 63 chars long according to spec?
<isleofmandan> 29 chars seems to work fine, so it breaks at 30
<isleofmandan> for the laptop, however 29 still seems too many for the phone.
<isleofmandan> oh no, it's not. It was just taking a while to think about it.
<isleofmandan> so, same behaviour with laptop and phone. WPA2 AES key of 30 chars is too many, but 29 is OK.
<isleofmandan> but you can use longer if you configure with nmtui
<isleofmandan> Can anyone reproduce the problem? If so, I'll think about working out how to report it as a bug.
<diddledan> password max is 63 chars and ssid is maximum of 32bytes
<diddledan> per spec
<diddledan> took a while for me to find those though :-)
<daftykins> must not have your specs on to see the specs
<diddledan> I don't have an ubuntu phone :-(
<daftykins> that just means you don't have to stop and install an update before you call an ambulance
<isleofmandan> I've only had to fiddle passwords. SSIDs are still as long as they were.
<isleofmandan> I'd ignored phone as it had stopped connecting to wifi. It's only when I've upgraded laptop tonight that I realised something else was afoot.
<isleofmandan> Thinking about it, I'd done an in-place upgrade to 16.04 and it was connected. I've just done a clean install now and it didn't. So I think it's more to do with how the applet accepts the input. Getting the key in already from a previous version, or via nmtui and all is OK.
<daftykins> you've already reproduced it on two devices, so repeat it by adjusting the length to find the character limit where it does + doesn't work, then file that
<isleofmandan> It's 30 chars where it breaks.
<daftykins> so 29 ok, 30 no?
<isleofmandan> yes
<daftykins> yeah, could be - you could also try setting up the connection manually instead of selecting a visible network
<daftykins> though i've a feeling this is the part where you say you hide SSID so have to do manual...
<isleofmandan> I'm not paranoid ;)  SSID is broadcast.
<isleofmandan> BTW, I'm impressed at how IRC doesn't kick me out even though laptop is disappearing from wifi lots :)
<diddledan> ok, so it doesn't work on 16.04 freshly installed? (did you install from 16.04.1 from this week or the original iso from april?)
<isleofmandan> I may have missed some replies though :)
<diddledan> I've got a space pc I can test with, so I'll do that
<isleofmandan> 16.04.1 downloaded tonight, and MD5 sum checked first.
<diddledan> right-oh
<isleofmandan> I first noticed problem with phone on OTA-11
<daftykins> diddledan: rocket man laptop?
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> spaaaaaaaace PC
<diddledan> 1513308160 bytes (1.5 GB, 1.4 GiB) copied, 0.623893 s, 2.4 GB/s
<diddledan> that was far too fast
<diddledan> over USB2
<diddledan> it was the correct device, too
<isleofmandan> That's how fast it was written to the hardware cache ;)   Now try sudo sync
<diddledan> aye
<isleofmandan> (I learned about that after pulling USB keys out when dd had said it had finished at some crazy speed, and finding they didn't work..)
<daftykins> that definitely came in at some point, so some behaviour must've changed between versions
<diddledan> neither 29 nor 30 chars work for me in passwords
<daftykins> could be influenced by specific driver? assuming that, as is likely, you're not both using the same adapter
<daftykins> though i suppose the phone wasn't the same either
<diddledan> possibly - 20 chars also fails
<diddledan> I think there's more problem than char limit
<diddledan> let me just double-check I can login to my known-good network
<isleofmandan> apologies, didn't realise I'd been disconnected
<diddledan> yeah I can login to that one - with a 19char pass
 * daftykins facepalms
<daftykins> i've just been hunting for bulbs that were under my nose the entire evening
<isleofmandan> It might be more complicated than number of characters. I've just had to drop to 28 characters to make a different passphrase work.
<daftykins> you know that thing when you can't see it for seeing it :(
<isleofmandan> Phone seems 'weaker' at this than laptop. I've now got a 28 char passphrase that laptop can do, but phone can't.
<isleofmandan> And if I choose a repeated single character, phone can do 29
<isleofmandan> so it's something complicated :)
<diddledan> ok, I can connect with a 30 char password in 16.04.1 live iso
<isleofmandan> oh :/
<diddledan> I can also connect with 63 chars
<isleofmandan> But you has problems earlier? I thought you'd had trouble with 29 & 30 ?
<diddledan> I was wrong on that. I hadn't configured my router properly
<isleofmandan> So it is just me. How odd.
<diddledan> again, I can't check the phone 'cos I don't got one :-)
<diddledan> but the live iso certainly seems to be ok for me
<isleofmandan> Hmm. Only way I could get my laptop going on a longer than 29 char one was to use nmtui
<diddledan> it works whether I use tkip key or aes key so it isn't a problem with that. next check is wpa vs wpa2
<isleofmandan> Is the live iso booted to the desktop? Or are you putting the key in at the installer part?
<diddledan> I'm using the standard desktop mode, yeah
<isleofmandan> I wonder if it's a combination of SSID and key length? I think the actual keys get derived from the SSID and the PSK.
<isleofmandan> Let me try a shorter SSID with a longer Key...
<isleofmandan> but first let me move my IRC to my wired desktop ;)
<diddledan> also works fine for me on wpa (as in the forerunner to wpa2 but the successor to wep) again both with aes and with tkip
<isleofman_dan> I've now managed a 40 char key on both phone and laptop, by shortening SSID to one character, so it's something to do with both of them.
<isleofman_dan> When it fails, neither phone or laptop even try to connect. There's no delay or anything. It's as if it ignores input to key entry.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-17
<popey> https://popey.com/blog/posts/ubuntu-artful-desktop-july-shakedown.html
<popey> :)
<SuperMatt> still only packages an old version of firefox though
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning moodoo
<MooDoo> how are you SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> very well, thank you
<SuperMatt> my summer holiday starts on Friday
<SuperMatt> woooo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> o/
<MooDoo> howdy howdy howdy
<rj2067> ng
<rj2067> *morning
<MooDoo> how is everyone this morning ?
<rj2067> all is good, and you
<MooDoo> yeah good thanks
<diplo> afternoon all
<Azelphur> aww yis, just scored a 5TB 2.5" drive on eBay for Â£50
<zmoylan-pi> one previous owner... the server farm next to the gym... :-P
<Azelphur> haha
<foobarry> does google no longer send the search query for https requests? i can't see them in the apache logs
<diddledan> foobarry: it never did. your browser _might_ or it might not
<diddledan> if your server is https enabled and the visitor comes from google then it is up to their browser whether to include the referrer. if your server is NOT https enabled then you'll not get it whatever
<foobarry> our site is https too
<foobarry> in the olden days we would see all search terms on http
<foobarry> the https ones aren't collected in apache
<foobarry> sad times
<diddledan> the referrer doesn't mean anything anyway, because it is changeable by the user
<BigRedS> that doesn't make it meaningless, it just means it's not a thing you can rely on
<superspring> join php
<diddledan> superspring: /join
<superspring> diddledan, thanks
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> the / is important :-D
 * diddledan goes for a slash
 * DJones hands diddledan a heavy metal guitarist
<DJones> from Wigan
 * zmoylan-pi goes for a backslash to impress the judges...
<diddledan> wow
<zmoylan-pi> just have to hope they  turn blind eye to 62 previous convictions... :-P
<diddledan> biting: https://9to5google.com/2017/07/14/alphabet-verily-mosquitos-summer-release-debug-fresno/
<zmoylan-pi> male mossies don't bite...
<diddledan> I should go cook something
<diddledan> got paella today <3
<zmoylan-pi> too warm for cooking...
<zmoylan-pi> a nice bananananana sandwich now... i could murder one of those...
<danielthebague> hi does netflix run on 32 bit lubuntu 12.04 LTS?
<danielthebague> using firefox?
<awilkins> AFAIK Netflix doesn't run on Firefox on 64-bit up-to-date
 * awilkins tries
<awilkins> Oooh, shiny new DRM prompt
<awilkins> Ok, yes, now Netflix works on Firefox  64-bit 16.04
<awilkins> This is Firefox 54.
<awilkins> No idea what's available on 12.04, but it's only worked in Firefox since 52
 * awilkins checks - apparently you can get FF 52 on precise.
<zmoylan-pi> they've already left the channel...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-18
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon how are you this fine day?
<brobostigon> alittle on the tired side, and you?
<MooDoo> same really, achy ankles this morning lol
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> hey brobostigon MooDoo
<knightwise> how you guys doing ? :)
<SuperMatt> don't talk to me about achey ankles
<SuperMatt> I twisted mine a couple of weeks ago and it still isn't fully healed
<SuperMatt> I'm going to a dance camp in France on Friday, so I need to be fit!
<brobostigon> hey knightwise, see above, and you?
<knightwise> ok, little swamped at work for the moment
<knightwise> as usual
<knightwise> Sales guy quit when i was on holiday
<knightwise> apperently i'm the new salesguy
<foobarry> heh
<Azelphur> I'm having fun with Equifax, they give me a poor credit score despite having every single thing as perfect
<Azelphur> Phoned them up and asked them about it, they kept giving me advice like "Pay your bills with direct debit and never miss a payment" "I have been doing that for years, and have never missed a payment" | "Get a credit card and use it and pay it off on time" "I have ben doing that since 2012, never missed a payment" | "Pay off any debt you have" "I am debt free and have no accounts with a balance"
<Azelphur> the only thing they found was that I've been living at my current address for 2 years instead of 3, and I said "I expect that to knock maybe 20, or 50 points off my score, not 500" so now he has gone to investigate lol
<foobarry> have you been denied anything?
<foobarry> i never bothered to find out the score since i've never been denied
<MooDoo> clearscore is another good one, it's free, i check that once in awhile
<Azelphur> foobarry: I got denied a bank account recently because my credit score is low - that's how I found out about it xD
<Azelphur> everywhere else my score is great, experian and noddle both say my score is fine
<Azelphur> so, weird things basically.
<Azelphur> The other weird thing that's on there is apparently I have an active account with BT at my old address that I haven't lived at for like 6 years, and they are billing me Â£0/month, which I am dutifully paying? xD
<zmoylan-pi> it's almost like they haven't a clue what they are doing _OR_ have access to info they're not releasing to you...
<Azelphur> pretty much, yea
<Azelphur> and I just sit here thinking "This is libel"
<zmoylan-pi> it's not libel when they don't tell you...
<Azelphur> If I'd done anything to deserve a bad rating I'd be ok with it, but I have literally paid everything off in full, never missed a payment on anything, use a CC to build my rating, etc xD
<Azelphur> lol
<zmoylan-pi> it's sep.....
<diplo> Any one use a VM super hub
<diplo> I want to port forward 2222 to 22 or something, I don't have access to one atm but will later
<diplo> It only appears i can forward 22 -> 22 and can't create a service of my own for specific ports
<smittix> Hi all, long time no speak.
<diplo> Bit quiet here  now smittix :)
<MooDoo> howdy smittix :)
<smittix> I see that :)
<smittix> Hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> smittix: how's it going budyd?
<smittix> MooDoo: Yeah I'm good mate thanks, you?
<MooDoo> smittix: yeah good, just knocking up a centos box to get nagios on....
<smittix> Heh nice
<MooDoo> smittix: playing about with WMI, can query ethernet speeds with it :D
<diplo> I'm doing Nagios stuff too on a CentOS box :)
<diplo> Boss decided to upgrade the box that was hosted to Cent7 - and so Nag4, didn't think I'd have time to at least check that everything worked
<diplo> nub!
<smittix> I'm just checking out a Java-JMX Console for this client.
<smittix> It's not secure..
<MooDoo> diplo: I've just installed centos7, installing updates, then following the guide to install it
<MooDoo> smittix: ooops
<diplo> Is Java ever secure :)
<diddledan> java ftw
<diplo> I just installed defaults, most guides say to compile Nagios
<diplo> Sod that :)
<MooDoo> yeah I've just compiled it, just testing 1st part
<smittix> Managed to exploit the jmx console, which is good news for me.
<smittix> the service was running as root.
<MooDoo> yay
<diddledan> for those watching from home: http://www.lightningmaps.org/#m=sat;r=0;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=;n=0;y=51.2404;x=-1.2205;z=11;d=2;dl=2;dc=0;
<zmoylan-pi> *pew* *pew* *pew*
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
 * zmoylan-pi has lights on as it's so gloomy and it's not yet noon...
<knightwise> same here , kinda thunderstormy outside
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, thunder warnings and rain
<MooDoo> nothing here at the moment
<zmoylan-pi> a bit damp out there... http://www.accuweather.com/en/ie/dublin/207931/weather-radar/207931
<diddledan> "the circle" is on netflix
<diddledan> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4287320/
<zmoylan-pi> so... should i get round to watching that? ;-)
<diddledan> if you're cynical about facebook yes
 * zmoylan-pi fits both those circles on the venn diagram...
<MooDoo> i liked it, but it's a big dig and google/facebook/ms everyone lol
<smittix> heh, watched that last night.
<smittix> I thought it was crap to be honest.
<diddledan> it's a good thought experiment IMO
<MooDoo> smittix: howdy doody
<smittix> I thought it was a little too over the top with the ideas.
<smittix> I get what they were trying to achieve in the movie but...
<smittix> MooDoo: Hey d00d
<MooDoo> although i'm just starting season 2 of Game Of Thrones
<smittix> Heh, I started watching that earlier this week.
<smittix> I have that and The Wire on the go. Then Netflix kindly informs me Shooter Season 2 has started so I have an episode of that too.
 * smittix misses Silicon Valley
<MooDoo> diplo: how's the nagios server going?
<diplo> I'd already done most of my mine MooDoo, adding newer checks recently like checking raid cards
<MooDoo> diplo: just playing about check_nt for network desktop bandwidth :D
<diplo> Not used that, will have a tinker
<diplo> It's been f'ing manic for the last 2 days, I'm ready to quit!
<MooDoo> aw no!
<diplo> floods have caused chaos all over SE chaos
<MooDoo> yeah got a friend in the lizard that got hit
<diplo> I'm honestly close to a melt down today, rarely feel like this, a lot of stuff I'm doing is basic support and I really don't like doing this stuff anymore, I'm paid to much to do it :D
<diplo> I recently installed check_mk as well, have you used it Moodoo ?
<diplo> ah he's left :D
<Azelphur> diplo: I use nagios/checkmk
<Azelphur> even wrote a custom check or three :)
<diplo> Whats the benefit of it
<Azelphur> diplo: you can install the check_mk agent on remote machines and add them to be monitored very easily
<Azelphur> and adding a custom check is as simple as dropping a script in a folder
<diplo> I use check_by_ssh for that already
<diplo> I'll take a look, only reason I installed it was I saw so many posts for it
<Azelphur> diplo: yea, honestly I did it that way because I have a friend that knows nagios, and he did it that way too.
<diplo> :) - I'm interested though! Will have a looksy when its not so rubbish here
 * Dave whispers "prometheus"
<diddledan> I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that
<diplo> Anyone alive, if so, do you knowanything about dnscache ?
<diplo> Got a server that is hitting 70-80% cpu
<diplo> Just need some idea where to investigate
<diddledan> this is twisted: https://twitter.com/Lyraull/status/887701316281257986
<diddledan> meow!
<diddledan> diplo: is your dnscache open to the world? if so you might be being used as an amplifier in a DDoS?
<diplo> I'm thinking that, trying to work it out right now
<diplo> not a normal server
<diplo> SME Server
<diplo> Nothing is done normally :)
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> SME. I haven't heard that name in a while
 * diddledan goes to check them out to refresh the braincells
<diplo> Apparently private
<diplo>     access=private
<diplo> Not sure what it's being used for on the box, stopping it still allows email to work, if it's on it pegs the cpu and stops dns working
<diddledan> hmm
<diplo> Well I've got email working, I'll fix it tomorrow when I'm more awake :D
<diplo> It's catching up with 24 hours worth ofemails, so is being hammered currently
<zmoylan-pi> those nigerian prince communiques must get through!!
<diplo> haha, there is ALOT of spam coming through
<diplo> The customer doesn't know how to check their spam folder
<diddledan> lovespam
 * zmoylan-pi always has a few tins in the press
<diplo> when I synced it over ( their old box was donkeys years old ) his .junkmail folder had 28ks worth
<diddledan> if you're receiving a LOT of email then the spam filter might be killing the DNS
<diplo> Maybe
<diplo> I'll reenable once it slows down, see if that fixes it
<diddledan> for things like SPF records and the like
<diplo> The guy who set this up didn't do an overly great job
<diplo> First time I've had a chance to look is my own time :/
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> sadface
<zmoylan-pi> it's working, at last, sign here, run for the door... :-)
<diplo> https://wiki.contribs.org/DB_Variables_Configuration#SpamAssassin
<diplo> Want to know what that means
<diplo> But finding it hard :)
<diplo> And getting there... another issue
<diplo> spamassassin couldn't start, needed to run sa-update
<diplo> now transaction timeis 4 secs instead of 14
<diplo> Right, done. Bed time :) gn all
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i've just had to re-install my home server (root / disk failure) so i've just gone from 16.04 to 17.04, i have 4x6TB disks that were btrfs setup, i'm not 100% sure how i had them origionally setup, about 2 years on the go since i set them up.
<NET||abuse> so i did blkid /dev/sda  and i set /etc/fstab   as    UUID=5df047bb-72b8-4876-8db6-e5301bcab1ac /mnt/data btrfs defaults  0       0
<NET||abuse> so is there anything i should do before i resume using the array of disks?
<NET||abuse> i did   btrfs fi show /dev/sda     and it shows the 4 disks with their btrfs usage, which is in line with what i think they should be at, about 30% used
<NET||abuse> so remounting them, should i do any updating? from ubuntu 16.04 btrfs  to 17.04 btrfs?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> NET||abuse: running non-LTS for a server, very unwise
<NET||abuse> daftykins: home server :)
<daftykins> yeah, still very unwise
<NET||abuse> happy to have to wrangle with upgrades when needed in this case ;)
<daftykins> so you'd rather a headache every x months rather than every x years? strange
<zmoylan-pi> helps them organise their panic better :-)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> respect their authority https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/btdZIS52/authoritah.png
<daftykins> that fella sounds familiar!
<diddledan> some weirdo
<zmoylan-pi> we should be vigilent, the best weirdos hang out on irc!!
<zmoylan-pi> remember the wise saying... be pure, be vigilent, behave... :-P
<diddledan> http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/23/22131/thumb_620x2000/inform.png
<daftykins> such spelling, i simply must enter
<diddledan> aah, I found the proper official one used in the series: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/de/26/89/de2689cf8cf4166e3b9b92fa0fa6604e--red-dwarf-your-family.jpg
<daftykins> :>
<foobarry> does anyone volunteer at a code club?
<foobarry> i think a certain AP who used to frequent here did/does. wondered if any others ..?
<diddledan> someone's been playing with GLADOS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BTEjekUlpI&feature=youtu.be
<diddledan> that's a promo real for the Pacific Rim 2 movie shown at comicon
<CoderEurope> 10 hours to go !
<CoderEurope> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/youyota-sailfish-os-2-in-1-tablet#/
<diddledan> "..some early feelers put on Reddit reinforced this hesitation, with the general paid software = bad mantra in full flow. Most of the guys on the team have a soft spot for Linux, so regardless of CEOs failure to attract the community â he walked in one day to find the devs running it on Ubuntu" (paraphrased a bit)
<diddledan> damn those devs!
<diddledan> they can't be trusted with anything!
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember when intel was first knocking out the itanium processor and when they finally had a prototype ready to test some engineer had linux kernel ready for it before any other os... in their spare time...
<diddledan> yeah I remember something like that too. I hear the intel GFX stack in the kernel is often preloaded with code to work chips that haven't been unleashed to the world yet
<diddledan> https://scontent-lhr3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20184924_101824793831506_5775066747652538368_n.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-21
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<diplo> 4 1/2 hours to go off a horrible 2 weeks! Only 5 days off, but 5 days!
<MooDoo> diplo: nice :)
<diplo> How are things with you MooDoo, much more mundane I'm hoping
<diplo> I've so had enough atm :)
<MooDoo> diplo: not too bad at the moment, just got my ticketing system sending confirmation emails, users wanted that feature :) wasn't hard
<diplo> Sounds good, use a paid for one or open source ?
<chp_> sd
<diddledan> trump administration has lost yet another person: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/us/politics/sean-spicer-resigns-as-white-house-press-secretary.html
<diddledan> scientists have been furthering their agenda to disprove all divine intentions again: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/10/new_lhc_particle_turns_on_the_charm/
<diddledan> what have they ever done for us?!
 * zmoylan-pi slides the huge popcorn bag beside diddledan and taps in the final numbers into the giant space laser...
<diddledan> ooh, popcorn
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<NET||abuse> hey guys, I need to configure disk health monitoring on my home server, i really want to know when the disk array might be in trouble.
<daftykins> what is it, mdadm?
<NET||abuse> I am wondering what the best solution would be, i will check in on it from time to time, and a web ui or someting would be handy
<NET||abuse> daftykins: no, it's a btrfs array, 4x6TB disks
<daftykins> no idea then
<NET||abuse> and 1x1TB OS disk
<NET||abuse> darn,,
<NET||abuse> it's been running for, maybe 2 years now,,
 * daftykins has a hardware controller that emails weekly verification results
<NET||abuse> so i really need to know the disks are healthy, or if /when they need replacing
<daftykins> well for the disks you'd want to just monitor their SMART output from smartctl
<daftykins> could script something up that runs the command against each disk and emails it to you easily enough
<NET||abuse> well, lets start underneath btrfs, smart. web or scheduled email or other api call with weekly/daily stats and results
<daftykins> scripted up as i say with smartctl'd work
<NET||abuse> is there anything simple and pre-configured, drop in installable  from repos?
<NET||abuse> scripting == maintenance, and who has time for that.
<daftykins> well the command hasn't changed since i started using it, so i can't think of a maintenance angle beyond reading the emails
<daftykins> in fairness had you wanted a time saving setup the home non-LTS server with btrfs was not it (:
<NET||abuse> haha, fair jab
<daftykins> i honestly have no idea if there's anything automated, i'd think just being able to store and view the system logs would be handy for any btrfs malarkey, then email'd "smartctl -i /dev/sdx" for each disk for manual perusal
<daftykins> no idea if there are any btrfs maintenance commands too, as what my hardware controller does is a full verify sweep across the volume checking the parity data every week, which is also a nice intensive task to provoke a bad sector being found if there is one
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<NET||abuse> morning :)
<NET||abuse> i've just sorted out postfix and a root alias to myself, but smartd.conf , i set the line to `DEVICESCAN -a m root`   so how often does that run?
<NET||abuse> sorry, typo  `DEVICESCAN -a -m root`
<diddledan> morning
<penguin42> hey
<penguin42> popey: I put 16.04 ubuntu-mate on my dad's machine and hit a problem I'd never seen before; https://askubuntu.com/questions/762541/ubuntu-16-04-ssh-sign-and-send-pubkey-signing-failed-agent-refused-operation
<penguin42> popey: The fix that worked was disabling gnome-keyring in the the session
<diddledan> so. crazy person is crazy. https://diddledan.github.io/mikeos-web/dosbox.html
<zmoylan-pi> emulators all the way down...
<diddledan> the os it's running is: http://mikeos.sourceforge.net/
<diddledan> our favourite mike saunders of linux voice and linux format fame
<zmoylan-pi> from the linuxvoice mag
<diddledan> yup
<zmoylan-pi> now rolled into linux magazine
<diddledan> someone kill me now. I've got a whim to play with gentoo
<diddledan> I must be somewhat masochistic
<zmoylan-pi> be strong install slackware from floppy to steady yourself
<diddledan> :-o
 * zmoylan-pi puts the cattle prod into it's charger...
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-16
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> anyone here using Skype 8.25.0.5
<czajkowski> running into an issue where it will not accept my password on desktop version, but does on web, so I know the login details are correct.
<daftykins> czajkowski: tried the usual ~ config directory rename?
<Laney> blergh
<Laney> it's gotten all humid
<daftykins> ooh-err
<Laney> daftykins: want to come hose me down?
<daftykins> haha you can pay me in ice cream
<oerheks> you british have the best solution, a nice hot cup of tea
<daftykins> :D those are definitely off the menu for me of late
<daftykins> not until evening at least ;)
<marshmn> only 117 more pages of Amazon Prime Day deals to look through
<marshmn> 60% off David Coultard's leadership, strategy & motivation book
<daftykins> let me guess, foot down, brake less
<zmoylan-pi> the colonies have iced tea. i have tried it, wasn't mad on it
<marshmn> daftykins: yes, probably - and move to Monaco to avoid paying taxes
<zmoylan-pi> still a few spots on channel islands... :-P
<maerciba5> hi
<maerciba5> how do i connect irssi using ipv6?
<maerciba5> resolve_prefer_ipv6 was ON
<maerciba5> but it simplywouldnt conenct
<Ragz> HI all
<Ragz> anyone able help with upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04
<Ragz> i know its EOL
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> https://www.facebook.com/brobostigon/ :)
<knightwise>  hey everyone
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Gargoyle> Wondering if anyone can help out with an issue I have with a VPN. It's a cisco anyconnect VPN and it's all setup in NetworkManager and "works fine" with one small gotcha - I have to immediately ping a host inside the VPN and leave that ping running. If I don't start the ping withing 2-3 seconds or I stop the ping for more than 2-3 seconds then no VPN traffic will flow. It doesn't disconnect, etc. The traffic just goes down some black
<Gargoyle> hole!
<Gargoyle> I'm all out of inspiration as to what to search for to find possible answers!
<Knightwise> mornineveryone :)
<Gargoyle> o/
<daftykins> Gargoyle: most VPN configurations have a keep-alive parameter to do that for you
<Gargoyle> daftykins: Yeah. I can't find anything like that in the config options in the gui or the related file in /etc/NetworkManager
<daftykins> https://supportforums.cisco.com/t5/vpn/vpn-via-cisco-anyconnect-fails-after-2-minutes-in-ubuntu-12-04/td-p/2082327
<daftykins> 'dead peer detection' or DPD packets seems relevant
<Gargoyle> Hmmm. DPD triggers after about 30 seconds, then I get a fresh: "Established DTLS connection (using GnuTLS). Ciphersuite (DTLS0.9)-(RSA)-(AES-256-CBC)-(SHA1)." For 2 or 3 seconds after that, I can launch a new ping and it will stay open. The second I stop pinging it's dead again.
<daftykins> did you have a connection profile to supply to make that work, or just credentials to enter once the openconnect 'addon' for networkmanager was installed? because the above link has a parameter for keepalive that might be missing
<Gargoyle> Just enetered creds once IIRC.
<daftykins> hmm might be some files related to the package then, where a systemwide setting lives
<czajkowski> daftykins: hmm not sure what the ~ config directory rename?
<czajkowski> means again?
<daftykins> skype will store some configuration in your home directory, ~ being /home/username - so finding that folder and renaming it (whilst Skype is closed), so the program can't find it, is a good test
<czajkowski> ah
<czajkowski> daftykins: how do you know these unusal tricks :)
<daftykins> ah they're all highly conventional, there has to be some per-user config for programs, on Windows it's C:\Users\<username>\AppData\ or %appdata%\, same deal as anything hidden under ~ on Linux
<daftykins> some hide it in the 'hidden' dot folder of .config - others elsewhere, since there's no consistency in open source land ;D
<czajkowski> cause that would be logical right
<czajkowski> would love to know why it went hideys in the first place when it just worked
<daftykins> Microsoft seem to be on a mission to ruin Skype so everyone leaves, lately xD
<daftykins> i just got updated to v8, the single window design and no ability to turn off emoticons is evil :(
<zmoylan-pi> it _is_ an ms product... :-)
<daftykins> thewaspsknees: i think your PIA node is bad
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi Knightwise
<Knightwise> how are you dude
<brobostigon> average really, and you?
<Knightwise> heading out for a couple of days of camping
<Knightwise> little bit of offline time
<Knightwise> offline is the new luxury
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> and no customers to deal with.
<Knightwise> ha  that is not an option when you are self employed
<brobostigon> quite.
<Knightwise> off to pack up the tent and head out in an hour
<brobostigon> have a good time.
<brobostigon> i have a couple of appointments this afternoon to see some commercial premises for let, for potential shop space.
<Knightwise> shop ?? what are you going to sell ?
<brobostigon> gaming kit, ie tabletop gaming kit, like D&D books, dice, maps, etc.
<brobostigon> and inhouse published edventure paths etc.
<brobostigon> not just D&D, but pathfinder and starfinder.
<zmoylan-pi> but NO warhammer!! :-P
<brobostigon> no.
<brobostigon> warhammer is a non-existant market as far as i am concerned to be honest.
<Knightwise> ooooo   a geek store !!
<Knightwise> good luck !!!
<brobostigon> :D
<Knightwise> we just remodeled our garage into a traing room for our company
<brobostigon> cool.
<Knightwise> that way we can gove workshops and stuff for our clients
<brobostigon> :)
<Knightwise> builders are testing my patience
<brobostigon> :(
<Knightwise> it will be ok but its just hard to keep them on schedule   lots of little details need to be completed
<Knightwise> but its a fixed price project  otherwise i would have gone apeshit by now
<brobostigon> i can imagine.
<Knightwise> morning alan_g
<alan_g> Hello Knightwise
<Knightwise> btw is this mate-alan ? i keep mixing them up
<alan_g> No
<Knightwise> just "regular" alan then ;)
<Knightwise> hey dermot-2
<oerheks> 2nd machine, 18/04, no problems..
<brobostigon> a new life has arrived in the world, :)
<oerheks> brobostigon, so you have a daughter/son ? or both ?
<brobostigon> daughter.
<oerheks> congrats !
<brobostigon> ty, :)
<daftykins> congrats!
<daftykins> was it a problem free birth?
<daftykins> if there is such a thing
<brobostigon> more or less.
<daftykins> thanks goodness for thewaspsknees getting booted :P
<mgdm> brobostigon: congratulations :-D
<daftykins> ugh spoke too soon apparently
<brobostigon> mgdm: ty, :)
<daftykins> anyone with ops that can ban that guy? and no, i won't hide joins/parts because it isn't appropriate to support giving
<zmoylan-pi> you could just /ignore thewaspsknees
<daftykins> i know :)
<daftykins> quite telling they're getting a good few k-lines though
<zmoylan-pi> times do look odd alright
<daftykins> maybe just naughty scamps getting certain PIA nodes banned
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon
<Knightwise> how did the hunt go ?
<brobostigon> hunt?
<brobostigon> oh yes, a few possibilities.
<brobostigon> but not there yet, the finances need working out.
<Knightwise> good luck dude   make the banks smile upon ypur groveling with kindness and generosity
<brobostigon> thats going to be the challange.
<Knightwise> make sure you have a good business plan
<brobostigon> its about half written right now, still loads to do.
<Knightwise> make it watertight  they use bad business plans to bugg out of a loan
<brobostigon> yes, i am going to have people read it and check it after i have written it, to check it over, and by people who work in business to check it all over.
<Knightwise> also ask people that are NOT your friend  they are going to be more objective
<brobostigon> yes, exactly, thats the plan.
<Knightwise> im off for the day  see you laterz
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-21
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning
<brobostigon> morning fellow kirkketts
<brobostigon> krikits*
<brobostigon> krikkits*
<penguin42> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-44911209
<zmoylan-pi> they're just softening the people up for the zombie instructions...
 * penguin42 gulps
<daubers> Evening all
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning gelatinous cube.
<brobostigon> cubes*
<daubers> I've been poking around all the communities I used to be involved with as a teenager and it feels a bit sad how many have faded away. Quite sad how much non-piracy base usenet has drifted off too :(
<daubers> I remember this place being busier too. Though I may just be getting nostalgic in my old age
<mgdm> morning daubers
<daubers> o/
<zmoylan-pi> well slack is th current place for chat plus whatever new platform google released this week
<daubers> slack always seems disappointing. The few non-work tech based slacks I've been into have been unpleasant places. Most of the modern tech based chat things haven't been the nicest places tbh
<knightwise> mornin peepz
<daftykins> \o
 * daftykins yawns
<daftykins> few too many pints around London last night
<knightwise> hahah
<knightwise> poor you
<daftykins> it's tough work, but someone's gotta do it :)
<knightwise> doing some archiving
<daftykins> of the digital kind?
<knightwise> going to upload the old knightwise.com shows to youtube
<daftykins> o0
<knightwise> ses1 dates back to 2006
<knightwise> had quite a time finfing a machine that had a cd rom drive
<diddledan> betty swollocks is visiting
<penguin42> tis a bit cooler up here
<daftykins> send her away!
<daftykins> i'm dying here in London, no AC in this pad, 27 deg C i think
<daftykins> 31 expected tomorrow
<penguin42> 22c up here in manc, expected 24c tomorrow, so not too bad
<mgdm> it's not too bad in Glasgow right now
 * zmoylan-pi passes around the generic lidl choc ices to any that needs them...
 * brobostigon would rather a navy rum and coke, :)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: thanks!
<zmoylan-pi> i bought a little usb powered fan for â¬9 and it's 4" blade right beside my laptop is wonderful breeze...
<brobostigon> :D
<zmoylan-pi> managed 12k steps today in icky weather and now have a cool breeze and some ice water for a nice diluted orange drink...
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-16
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> O/
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<sebsebseb> Wimpress: ping   so uhmm  my  GPD  MicroPC came today :),  apparantly you been trying to port over Ubuntu Mate offically, but some issues?  What's the prgress?   Also it seems in general not going to have much luck getting any Linux distro working on there for now properly?
<popey> sebsebseb: contentless pong!
<sebsebseb> popey: uhmm right, so you know anything about the progress of Ubuntu Mate on the GPD MicroPC, or Linux in general >
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-17
<knightwise> Morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<zmoylan-pi>  lot of people play the pipes and play them well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmaicurzPb0
<pleaseman> Is this channel still in use? I used to come here when I first started using Ubuntu, but it seems quieter now, while #ubuntu is much busier?
<pleaseman> I'm a returnee, a very out of date one at that :(
<MattJ> #ubuntu was always much busier :)
<pleaseman> Okay fair enough. Just wanted to know this is still in operation
<MattJ> But yes, this is still the primary method to receive morning greetings from brobostigon, I know of no better channel
<pleaseman> Maybe this was the autojoin channel in those days MattJ
<brobostigon> MattJ: :)
<pleaseman> or maybe I'm just completely misremembering... more likely :)
<pleaseman> I do remember brobostigon and you MattJ  others I'd better not annoy with long list while i remember how to use IRC
<brobostigon> :)
<pleaseman> I used to use irssi, but i suspect I'm too rusty for that now. You have to actually remember commands :)
<pleaseman> Nice to see Thunderbird still works well on Linux. It's ab it messy on Windows these days :(
<brobostigon>  /help helps a lot, :)
<pleaseman> I'm getting there. To be honest, I used to mainly use Linux on my Desktop, but it went the way of the dodo and it took me awhile to come across a second hand laptop with an ssd installed, for under Â£50... yeah I'm that tight :(
<pleaseman> The ssd is only 30GB, but it's fine for me. I use an SD card for data and then push it onto an External HD every few weeks. It's prehistoric, as backup systems go, but it's worked for me
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> some of us even still use their eeepc's. :)
<lornajane> I had an aspire one and I adored that thing
<brobostigon> they did pretty well with the designs of those things.
<lornajane> in fact I had an aspire one with an after-market battery upgrade. It was very unbalanced and yet still perfect. I now carry a small android tablet and bluetooth keyboard but I'm thinking of the aspire when I use it :)
<brobostigon> ;)
<pleaseman> I used to have an msi wind. You could get an alternative long life battery for it that literally lasted all day. It stuck out a bit, but still easily fit into a duffel bag
<pleaseman> back later
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-20
<SuperEngineer> hi folks, just [trying to] move/d back to Ubuntu from Solus.  I am unable to use Wine [it doesn't declare itself as available to .exes at all.  Ubuntu 18.04,  what am I missing?
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-21
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
