#ubuntu-learning 2009-10-19
<Vantrax> how is everything this morining
<cprofitt> ok....
<cprofitt> I wish pleia2 was here...
<cprofitt> Vantrax, you still here?
<Vantrax> yes
<pleia2> cprofitt: sorry, all tied up w/ conference this weekend
<pleia2> will be around tomorrow :)
<cprofitt> no problem pleia2
<cprofitt> will talk to you tomorrow
<Vantrax> Pleia2 you around?
<greenkernel1> hello
<greenkernel1> hello
<starcraft-ntbk> swoody: morning
<starcraft-ntbk> darn
<swoody> haha, well good morning, starcraft-ntbk :)
<doctormo> Sorry for lateness, just woke up
<doctormo> pleia2: meeting?
<pleia2> doctormo: in 40 minutes
<doctormo> okay
<pleia2> hey cprofitt
<pleia2> feel like chairing this evening's meeting?
#ubuntu-learning 2009-10-20
<pleia2> cprofitt, Vantrax, doctormo, bodhi_zazen: meeting?
<doctormo> yes
<cprofitt> yes
<Vantrax> tied up at work sorry
<cprofitt> Vantrax, we are in meeting... if you are not...
<Vantrax> sorry I wasnt able to participate that much
<cprofitt> No problem Vantrax
<cprofitt> welcome BiosElement
<BiosElement> Hey cprofitt
<doctormo> BiosElement: You just missed a meeting
<swoody> hello BiosElement :)
<BiosElement> Aye, I noticed. I've been down with a cold so I hadn't checked my mail like I usually do.
<pleia2> aladdin++
 * pleia2 hugs BiosElement 
<pleia2> hope you feel better!
<swoody> BiosElement, that stinks, sounds like a few people have come down with a bug :(
<BiosElement> Ahh, I think I'm through the worst of it now. Hopefully I'll be able to spend more time working soon. >.>
<swoody> good to hear :)
<BiosElement> Well, and it also probably doesn't help that I've installed kubuntu as my current primary and am toying with it >.>
<doctormo> I here H1N1 is going around
<swoody> doctormo, indeed, a girl from the city my fiancee works in died from H1N1 just the other week :(
<Vantrax> away at a meeting now
<cprofitt> BiosElement, one important part of the meeting is that you and doctormo will be working on finalizing the process of creating courses using asciidoc, bzr and Moodle
<cprofitt> and creating an on-line course to covert that process with contributors
<cprofitt> with a target date of January
<cprofitt> since you were not there I think it is fair to ask if you feel that is a reasonable time frame for completing that work
<cprofitt> also BiosElement I am slowly creating an example Moodle course -- http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=8
<cprofitt> I added you as a non-editing teacher for that course BiosElement
<cprofitt> so you can use it to assist with developing the process
<cprofitt> BiosElement, just checking -- are you here?
<cprofitt> doctormo, did you get the link to the course too?
<doctormo> cprofitt: I did
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> cool...
<cprofitt> I am not done, but you can see the progress...
<doctormo> Sorry if I have a high ping, disney films will do that.
<pleia2> hehe
 * pleia2 looooves disney movies too
<BiosElement> cprofitt: I'm around now. Ahh, I think that should be resonabe.
<cprofitt> Cool.
 * cprofitt smiles
 * doctormo loves the irony of Disney, teaching kids to be nobel but as a company lacking virtue.
 * pleia2 just doesn't pay attention to the company
<cprofitt> wow... first time I have heard a person say Disney lacks virtue
<cprofitt> I know Steve Jobs is involved... and he is hellspawn, but what else has Disney done wrong?
<swoody> Jobs in involved with Disney?
<swoody> damn :(
<cprofitt> Yeah he owns a major portion of it I believe
<pleia2> pixar
<pleia2> he's the co-founder
<pleia2> no, owner
<swoody> well that stinks :/
<doctormo> cprofitt: Support of infinate extentions to copyright despite every work being borrowed or stolen, an almost obsesive protection of "ip" and they kicked a guy out of Disney land because he looked like Santa (and they claimed Santa is a disney charicter), see timber the white lion for an interesting story.
<pleia2> but he sold pixar to disney in 2006, so isn't really involved anymore afaik
<swoody> now I can't buy a lot of good movies :(
<swoody> well I retract my previous statement :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> amusing that debian names their releases after a movie made by steve jobs' company though
<doctormo> Put simply, disney legal have social no morals. Very good business, very bad neighbours.
<swoody> haha, yeah that is pretty funny
<doctormo> pleia2: Well only one, toy story.
<cprofitt> I thought the sale of Pixar to Disney was done partly in 'stock'
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, that's why I said "a movie"
<pleia2> :)
<cprofitt> which is why Jobs owns Disney
<pleia2> cprofitt: you might be right
<pleia2> I didn't keep track of the details
<cprofitt> http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/bios/steve_jobs.html
<pleia2> I am just excited about the princess and the frog!
<cprofitt> In October 2005, Bob Iger replaced Eisner at Disney, and Iger quickly worked to patch up relations with Jobs and Pixar. On January 24, 2006, Jobs and Iger announced that Disney had agreed to purchase Pixar in an all-stock transaction worth $7.4 billion. Once the deal closed, Jobs became The Walt Disney Company's largest single shareholder with approximately 7% of the company's stock.
<pleia2> ah, I see :)
<cprofitt> Sorry... I am way to detail oriented
<swoody> dangit again :(
<pleia2> hehe
<cprofitt> it helps as a sysadmin, but gets in the way of friendly conversation
<swoody> I'm on an emotional-Disney-rollercoaster here :)
 * swoody officially founds the GNU Animation Studio
<cprofitt> Jobs likely gets free rides when he goes to the park
<swoody> it will be FLOSS Disney-esque movies :)
<pleia2> cprofitt: hehe
<cprofitt> swoody -- http://download.blender.org/peach/trailer/trailer_1080p.ogg
<doctormo> pleia2: I'll watch it, their films are always well produced.
<swoody> cprofitt, haha, or at least a 10% off coupon for the gift shop ;)
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, and this one has been on the drawing board for *years*
<cprofitt> swoody or  a little less bandwidth intense - http://download.blender.org/peach/trailer/trailer_400p.ogg
<swoody> cprofitt, that looks amazing :)
<swoody> I never knew about that!
<doctormo> swoody: I hope you have a few million dollars kicking about to fund animated feature films :-D
<cprofitt> swoody -- for the full movie -- http://www.vimeo.com/1084537
<cprofitt> still not real long, but it shows what open source can do
<swoody> doctormo, oh I just might... I just might ;)
<swoody> no, really I don't :(
<pleia2> cprofitt: aah, that's so cute
<cprofitt> I use Blender in some of my presentations...
<cprofitt> to get people off the idea that "Open Source" can not match proprietary software
<swoody> the animation quality rivals that of any professional movie
<cprofitt> I also use Firefox too...
<cprofitt> I got a huge laugh out of using Firefox at EdTech Day 2009
<swoody> I truly hope that they come out with a full-length feature film, I would be ecstatic :D
<cprofitt> yeah... they could come out with a full-feature...
<cprofitt> and charge theaters for it
<swoody> I would completely support it :)
<swoody> and honestly, as long as it has the story-line to back it up, I don't think kids or parents would hesitate seeing it
<cprofitt> pleia2, thanks for commenting on my blog
<pleia2> cprofitt: of course :)
<cprofitt> I am glad you did not find it offensive...
<pleia2> I kinda vote "troll" for the commenter who thought it was
<doctormo> cprofitt: Hey I also commented.
<pleia2> I am not sure how serious they were, but it kinda made the folks who actually do have legitimate complaints about things in the community/industry look bad
<cprofitt> Yes, you did doctormo
<cprofitt> pleia's comments carry with it the opinion of a female though
<cprofitt> which has a greater impact in this particular subject
<doctormo> cprofitt: It does, although from my perspective from a class society, there is a tendancy to think of the poor in a similar way. One story.
<doctormo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9Ihs241zeg
<swoody> doctormo, great link by the way :)
<swoody> I think I just fell in love with TED
<pleia2> ted is great
<Vantrax> TED is good
<swoody> indeed :)
<swoody> you two sound like you're trying to brainwash someone ;)
<swoody> 'TED is the way...'
<pleia2> lol
<Vantrax> http://www.ted.com/talks/sam_martin_builds_a_room_of_his_own.html
<Vantrax> man spaces:P
<swoody> just finished : http://www.ted.com/talks/yochai_benkler_on_the_new_open_source_economics.html
<swoody> and I hope to god he's right :)
<swoody> Vantrax, I like that one :)
<swoody> and I happen to have a full-size unfinished basement... hmm...
<Vantrax> lol
<Vantrax> that is one of the best ones around
<Vantrax> Im thinking about what I could do with min
<Vantrax> mien
<Vantrax> mine
<doctormo> I downloaded about 300 ted talks using miro and I'll go through them one at a time
<Sajjad68> hello all, how can i  see subtitles in movies? (ubuntu)
<swoody> Sajjad68, well I'm not too sure about this myself, but #ubuntu-learning isn't an official support channel, so you're probably not going to get an answer here :)
<Saj0577> hey guys swoody where you at the meeting last nihgt?
<swoody> Saj0577, hello, and yes I was :)
<Saj0577> swoody: what was said? as i was not  able to make it cos as you know mondyas not normally that good for me :(
 * swoody facepalms...
<swoody> I forgot to set logging for all my channels in xchat :/
<swoody> Saj0577, well, we're all agreeing to be kinder and put in effort to be more civil to one-another...
<swoody> 2) doctormo and bioselement have set a date of January for them to finish the guide for how to create written work for the UCLP...
<Saj0577> k
<swoody> 3) doctormo and pleia like Disney movies ;)
<pleia2> Saj0577: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/10/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<swoody> ah, thank you pleia2 :)
<pleia2> 4) swoody doesn't like disney because of steve jobs
<Saj0577> pleia2: thanks :D
<pleia2> sure thing :)
<swoody> heh, true enough :)
<Saj0577> got a question is anyone around to answer it cos if there isnt i wont bother asking lol
<swoody> well, ask Saj0577 :)
<Saj0577> dont think you can answer it but will fire away
<swoody> it's np if I can't someone else will be able to answer it :)
<Saj0577> on the UCLP is it possible as part of a test that i ask people to input a variable(password as such) into a text box and the correct answer is different per user?
<pleia2> not really
<pleia2> of our three release formats (live, irc and moodle) only moodle supports "tests"
<pleia2> and I don't think it has such a things, all questions are static afaik
<Saj0577> pleia2: okays, just as part of one of my lessons i had an idea, but im sure i can change it, or just do the same answer and if people want to cheat then let them get on with it lol
<doctormo_> Saj0577: But there is no reason whyt there can not be a script as a test, there are existing curses based things that do that.
<Saj0577> doctormo_: so you think with a bit of work I/the team, can implement it, because I think it would largely help with some of my lessons and the way i planning on teaching them.just helps me make them interactive
<doctormo_> Saj0577: It would be helpful, but I don't think much needs programming, there are quiz libs already available.
<doctormo_> I think
<Saj0577> doctormo: okays. thanks.
<Saj0577> pleia2: still around?
<pleia2> Saj0577: sort of (am at work, responses might be slow)
<Saj0577> i trying to log back in on UCLP and it saying i need to register again if use my openid and i did not set a password for my username, or if i did i forgot it cos my normal ubuntu ones dont work
<pleia2> looking at users now, hmm
<Saj0577> i defo on there as saj0577 as cproffit edited my rights so can create courses etc
<pleia2> I'm afraid moodle is not my forte
<pleia2> ther eis a Saji N user
<Saj0577> nah thats not me
<pleia2> what's your email?
<Saj0577> mine is saj0577   mu serid is 57 i think
<Saj0577> saj0577@gmail.com  (or googlemail.com)
<pleia2> ah, I see
<Saj0577> userid**
<pleia2> what does it do when you try to log in with launchpad.net/~saj0577 ?
<pleia2> as openid
<Saj0577> asks me to register again
<pleia2> strange, it has https://launchpad.net/~saj0577 listed as an openid
<Saj0577> il try again
<Saj0577> it says i need to confirm my login to complete registration. :S
<Saj0577> pleia2: sorted it i think 2ticks
<Saj0577> yeah fixed all sorted :)
<pleia2> good :)
<Saj0577> for students to take courses do they already have to be a LP member?
<pleia2> for moodle? it supports openid but it's not required
<Saj0577> okay cheers. question answered :)
<charlyms> hi
<doctormo> hi charlyms
<charlyms> hi doctormo
<doctormo> charlyms: Are you interested in learning materials?
<charlyms> sure
<charlyms> what kind of?
<ZachK_> doctormo, hey man..how's it going?
<charlyms> great
<doctormo> ZachK_: Hey there
<ZachK_> doctormo, yes
<doctormo> ZachK_: How are you?
<ZachK_> doctormo, i'm ok
<doctormo> ZachK_: Good to hear, are you willing and able to get involved with educational courses?
#ubuntu-learning 2009-10-21
<ZachK_> doctormo, i'm on the bt team
<ZachK_> ask starcraft-ntbk or swoody 'bout me doctormo
<Saj0577> hey doctormo ZachK_ is on the BT team he joined what 2 weeks ago?
<ZachK_> Saj0577, i think it was three by now
<Saj0577> hehe my bad :P
<Saj0577> ZachK_: your already on the edu FG yeah?
<Saj0577> ZachK_: yeah i got you down your only one who has confirmed so far lol
<ZachK_> Saj0577, i did?
<ZachK_> Saj0577, pm me so we can discuss this
<starcraftman> who what? I got pinged.
<ZachK_> starcraftman, i told doctormo to ask about me from you
<starcraftman> ZachK_: ah, why? He didn't belive ya?
<ZachK_> starcraftman, no nothing like that...i just think it's better if people talk about "me" for me instead of me talking about me...it's more or less like you can be your own best friend ya know?
<doctormo> Hmm, you should always be your own best friend, who else to be brutaly honest, who will always be there to help you through your ideals.
<Saj0577> doctormo: hes gont to install karmic i think
<starcraftman> doctormo: your imaginary evil abe lincoln friend? In response to your who question.
<cprofitt> I'll be your huckleberry
<starcraftman> cprofitt: for some reason, that just sounded really wrong to me.
<cprofitt> starcraftman, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh3xpSJwmk4
<swoody> cprofitt, great movie :)
<starcraftman> cprofitt: I don't really watch westerns >.>.
<cprofitt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfbAFgD2mLo
<starcraftman> dad loves em to pieces though
<cprofitt> absolutely great performance
<cprofitt> Kilmer is awesome
<Vantrax> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Y0I91rubg
<Saj0577> hey team
<pleia2> hey Saj0577
<Saj0577> hey got some good and some not so good news on the eu position.
<pleia2> yeah?
<Saj0577> right the ubuntu-eu team with the website and servers etc seems to be only a server/hosting service bene talking to one of the people and they dont have any like other input, mainly due to all the language barriers. so prob going to have to start from scratch the eu side (which is not to bad means we can implement it and make it work how we want an dyou can guide me with how the ubuntu-us works for a base :P ) and i already got a few multi 
<pleia2> your line cut off at "a few multi"
<pleia2> and I don't think it's "starting from scratch" you have the whole loco community with the same supportive goals, and the loco council
<Saj0577> ...lingual people to help out with the non-english.
 * pleia2 nods
<Saj0577> yeah i meant in aspect to getting them all working under one roof rather then lots of roof with the same idea. :)
<Saj0577> had a good response from email as well, quite a few us ones but also some euro ones etc. just awaiting joeb to forward the rest to me when he returns
<pleia2> great, are you going to be dropping by #ubuntu-us to work with us?
<pleia2> one of the big problems with our team is getting the word out, clearly we've dne a poor job since our project exists for these things and people are coming to you
<Saj0577> sure thing. obviously timings may be bit awkward but, yeah well maybe the way forward is use the EDU FGto promote it then from there send us to the us project and then il also deal with ubuntu-eu (although prob need another name to not get confused with clusters) and a ubuntu-asia type one if need be.
<pleia2> well, we have mentors on the -us team already who can help out
<pleia2> so it doesn't have to all be done by your FG
<Saj0577> yeah sure.
#ubuntu-learning 2009-10-22
<d33d> anyone around? I just wanted to say I'm ready to contribute to the "Ubuntu Community Learning Project" and I've signed up :D
<Saj0577> hey d33d im here but real tired if want to aks anything :)
<d33d> im in the same boat - i was just looking for someone to quiz me and approve me for the launchpad team?
<d33d> they "quiz" - well more like "tell you how it is" in the fedora project when you want to be a contributor
<Saj0577> d33d: well i cant approve you on LP team. but what you looking to help out with any particular area?
<d33d> no, i like to teach.
<d33d> and learn :D
<Saj0577> okays. you got any areas your a boffin on?:)
<d33d> lol well i'd say i at least know hot to use ubuntu. desktop and some server-side (ubuntu as a web app server)...
<Saj0577> okay cool stuff.
<d33d> and I'm learning python
<Saj0577> hey BiosElement
<d33d> just a smathering
<BiosElement> Hey Saj0577. ^_^
<Saj0577> d33d: okays. well if you stick around im sure someone whos awake can talk to you a bit more heh :) as i said here if want to ask anything
<d33d> doctormo, ping
<doctormo> d33d: pong
<d33d> doctormo, I'm looking at the SystemAdminTopics classes and I'd like to help in anyway I can. I'd like to learn and critique :D
<d33d> just says you're looking to attract people from IRC and various blogs (planets) :D
<cprofitt> d33d, sounds great.
<cprofitt> we can use all the help we can get.
<Saj0577> hey cprofitt not see you there.
<cprofitt> we are...
<cprofitt> are there questions I can answer d33d ?
<pleia2> welcome d33d
<d33d> not really - I think I'm just going to tackle these classes a bit this evening and get back to you - unless....you can approve me on LP
<Saj0577> d33d: well il leave you with these people goodnight for now take care (and everyone else im here if need me but just chillen)
<pleia2> sure I'll approve you, sec
<pleia2> g55
<pleia2> oops
<d33d> Saj0577, peace out
<cprofitt> I can do that d33d
<pleia2> lp is sooo slow
<d33d> pleia2, is that your password? lol hope not.
<BiosElement> If it was, it isn't anymore. Anyway, it's too short >.>
<pleia2> d33d: haha, no, switching windows in irssi
<cprofitt> which perso are you d33d ?
<d33d> Alex Lutz
<d33d> sorry - should i change it to d33d instead?
<cprofitt> approved
<cprofitt> nah... it does not matter
<d33d> why thank you Elizabeth Krumbach
<d33d> :D
<d33d> which is ???
<cprofitt> someone else processed it 3 seconds before I did
<BiosElement> haha, that was pleia probably.
<d33d> pleia2, i think did
<pleia2> cprofitt: I said I'd aprove him first ;)
<d33d> I like you guys.
<cprofitt> sorry... did not see that pleia2
<pleia2> hehe, it's all good
<d33d> this is a good community project.
<d33d> you're all too nice :P
<cprofitt> thanks d33d
<cprofitt> let me know if you want a walk through with Moodle
<cprofitt> doctormo, or BiosElement can help with asciidoc
<cprofitt> pleia2, with IRC
 * Saj0577 hopes cprofitt does not give him them fab videos to look at lol
<d33d> actually - probably - no familiarity with moodle at all - however, i have to travel home first. :D
<BiosElement> Yep, I'm around to help with asciidoc/bazaar if you need it. Though I may be a tad slow as I'm running basically on dialup.
<d33d> I'm also a fedora project contributor - but they make it so freakin' hard to get around.
<d33d> there's like 12 different websites for 3 things. Its just confusing.
<cprofitt> nah... I think that course has to go now Saj0577
<BiosElement> I doubt it's as bad as kde. I can't even find their mailing lists. >.>
<d33d> not brining up fedora for "fightin" words.
<d33d> BiosElement, lol.
<d33d> mailing lists were easy to find.
<d33d> good luck with that.
<pleia2> I had a nice time chatting with the fedora guys at the conference I went to this past week
<cprofitt> d33d, I am a Fedora Ambassador
<Saj0577> cprofitt: what a shame hehe. we need to make a new one you think is there one in process not bene on the site for a few days just been workingn on locla machine getting ideas together.
<d33d> cprofitt, Same here.
<cprofitt> Saj0577, yeah... we need a better one...
<d33d> Saj0577, you from the UK?
<doctormo> Welcome d33d, sorry for the delay, setting up openldap here and we failed again, (6th week running) but we're very close!
<Saj0577> d33d: sure am.
<Saj0577> why?
<cprofitt> doctormo, what issues are you having?
<d33d> doctormo, ah the "trial and error method"
<BiosElement> d33d: There's another method? >.>
<d33d> Saj0577, never heard the term boffin - wikipedia filled me in :D
<doctormo> cprofitt: It logs on via ssh ok, but fails via gdm
<d33d> BiosElement, no. its just the best method. because most likely you will fail, and learn a heck of a lot more than you would if it just "worked"
<Saj0577> d33d: oright hehe. :P i will come up wit many terms trhat you probably think WHAT to while your here hehe.
<d33d> good. I'll learn more UK terms, and use them here and people will be like WTF?
<d33d> its good.
<d33d> well - its time for me to depart for a bit, be back later
<cprofitt> see ya d33d
<doctormo> OK, so it looks like we're heading out here
<Saj0577> d33d: cya laters take care
<doctormo> d33d: Go through and pick a course, I'd be happy to have you aboard either writting one of the missing classes or editing existing ones.
<Saj0577> whats the topic? i cnt see when next meeting is cos i use irssi it dont show it all
<BiosElement> It still thinks the "next" meeting is on the 19th. I don't know when the next one is. >.>
<Saj0577> oright thanks
<pleia2> yeah, we haven't planned one yet
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-learning to: Ubuntu Community Learning Project | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning | Next Meeting: TBD | Support in #ubuntu
<Saj0577> okays.
<Saj0577> i really should head ot bed soon lo
<BiosElement> Saj0577: Previous meeting logs are here if you want them. http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/10/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<BiosElement> I'm actually just finally getting a chance to read through them.
<Saj0577> BiosElement: thanks its on my to do list already lol
<BiosElement> haha, great.
<Saj0577> its one pretty big list right now hopefully weekend will help me reduce it lol
<BiosElement> You should see my list...It's got over 700 entries. I never actually get a chance to read most of them :S
<Vantrax> hrm, from the wiki: We are planning on two kinds of materials for a given course. The first is a set of materials which closely follow the lesson topics, including challanges, further information and so on, this is the standard course materials that will be conducted by a trainer. The second part is background materials, information about topics which people will need to understand in order to grasp what they are going to be doing in a l
<Vantrax> esson. This could be generated information or information already present in the wiki and help documentation and some topics my only require one part.
<Vantrax> is that still valid?
<Vantrax> probably needs to be updated to include offline materials via asciidoc
<Vantrax> or pdf i guess
<BiosElement> I'm not sure how valid it is but I can tell you that as far as I know, it hasn't been taken into consideration with the asciidoc formatting. pleia2 would probably know better then I would.
<Vantrax> It was written back at the start of the project, but i think it needs to change to cater for the offline options
<Vantrax> BiosElement, I hear your the man for asciidoc, any chance you can prepare a tute on how it works
<BiosElement> Vantrax: Well I could make a quick guide to it but the problem is without the proper formatting it won't be anything more then the commands to compile asciidoc and a link to the markup page.
<Vantrax> what do you recommend then?
<BiosElement> Well currently doctormo and I are holding everything up. And I'm waiting on doctormo's revised system so I can't do much. But I'll make up a quick Getting Started with AsciiDoc at least.
<Vantrax> that would be a nice start
<Vantrax> I know that people are interested in it, just dont really know alot about it yet
<BiosElement> Yeah, I'm not quite sure where doctormo's at with it >.>
<Vantrax> yeah, i havent been able to catch him for a few days
<BiosElement> Well I've had a cold so I was rather outta it for a bit. >.<
<BiosElement> Vantrax: this is a 'very' rough draft but it should help. http://paste.ubuntu.com/298730/
<BiosElement> I'm also working on a python script to compile asciidoc files so course creators won't ever have to actually enter commandline.
<Vantrax> very nice, the easier it is the better it will be
<BiosElement> Exactly.
<Vantrax> sounds like you have it all sorted, nice work
<BiosElement> Well that's the idea. Lemme know if you try it out. FYI that paste is a valid AsciiDoc file.
<Vantrax> hrm, you reference pdf, but dont say how to export to pdf
<BiosElement> Nope, it's a bit trickier but I did it a few times during testing. I just haven't re-installed the packages yet.
<Vantrax> ok
<Vantrax> just the first question i had after reading it
<BiosElement> IIRC pdf's need converting asciidoc to latex and latex to pdf. But the results were good anyway. And apparently asciidoc to pdf support is also working but I don't remember how >.>
<d33d> I'm back
<Saj0577> welcome back d33d still here still not in bed i know lol
<d33d> Saj0577, slacker.
<Saj0577> hehe.
<d33d> who wants to give me a tour of moodle?
<d33d> one sec, i have to put my clothes back on.
<d33d> JUST KIDDING.
 * Saj0577 is worried
<d33d> was it doc?
<Saj0577> it was c profitt
<d33d> cprofitt, are you awake?
<cprofitt> yes
<cprofitt> but headed off to sleep
<cprofitt> night all
<BiosElement> Wow, I've just noticed the Ars Technica comments are nearly slashdot/4chan quality...>.> I can see why they're reluctent to make linux posts often now...
<pleia2> the internet became a much better place when I decided to stop reading user comments
<pleia2> (I still do sometimes, usually regret it)
<BiosElement> Heh, True. One "person" just claimed picasa had no linux alternative...Erm, I'm pretty sure picasa was ported and even if it wasn't digikam is awesome >.>
<pleia2> I quite like f-spot
<pleia2> and picasa for linux runs in a wine wrapper
<pleia2> you download the linux version from google, they put the wine wrapper on it
<BiosElement> Eh, I "like" f-spot but it just kinda felt clunky for me. And I thought so.
<pleia2> yeah, I hear the clunky complaint about fspot a lot
<BiosElement> Figures. Sad thing is I can't even think of anything to improve it.
<BiosElement> Reading these comments reminds me of why I finally installed ubuntu. Lost the bloody driver disks. Ubuntu however doesn't have any problems. >.>
<BiosElement> And I must admit, I never knew that nearly every single ars reader was an "open source developer and contributor". Strange that I've yet to read what projects they work on... *cough*
<paultag> pleia2, BiosElement, do you have greasemonky?
<BiosElement> paultag: I've used it, but I don't have it currently. Why?
<pleia2> nope
<paultag> pleia2, BiosElement, http://www.julien-oster.de/projects/feyntube/
<paultag> pleia2, BiosElement, get greasemonky. The internet becomes better with that plugin
<paultag> pleia2, BiosElement, turns all youtube comments into Richard Feyn quotes
<BiosElement> hahaha
<Vantrax> oohhh I like it
<pleia2> I don't use firefox :\
<paultag> brilliant :)
<paultag> pleia2, aww
<BiosElement> What 'do' you use pleia2?
<paultag> pleia2, port greasemonky to browser x over there
<pleia2> BiosElement: the chromium linux build
<BiosElement> pleia2: Ahh, Nice. I was playing with that before I swapped to kubuntu.
<Vantrax> pleia2 same here
<pleia2> BiosElement: nice and fast with javascript rendering, which is nice because I spend most of my day in gmail and goog reader
<BiosElement> pleia2: Yep. Only reason I didn't use it as primary was I have too many firefox extensions to go without. >.>
<pleia2> yeah, I never used many
<BiosElement> It's a tad clunky on kde but not 'too' bad. I'm loving the technical basis of kde but if they don't get a good browser, it's not going to get far. >.<
<swoody> Good morning Learn-eritos :)
<doctormo> hello swoody
<swoody> how is the day treating you, doctormo ?
<doctormo> Well, I had a bit of a tricky heart, got up early (3am?) to get some asperin, but we were out.
<swoody> doctormo, ouch, sorry to hear that :(
<doctormo> I wanted to make some breakfast to try and wake up some more, but the kitchen was a dump, so I had to just overhaul it (and I do mean, take everything off the counter, clean and put things back)
<doctormo> Still haven't eaten, lol
<swoody> haha
<swoody> well that stinks :/
<doctormo> I started that at about 7am, just finished
<swoody> wow, that sounds like it was fun ;)
<swoody> but that's why I got myself a nice Greek girl ;)
<swoody> she loves cooking, and takes out her stress from work by cleaning :D
<doctormo> Proving once again that I am the embodyment of light arseburgers and OCD all rolled into one package.
<swoody> haha, well I'm sure it's in much better shape now
<doctormo> OK so my geeky _wife_ will cook, loves to, loves to bake and make the most amazing food. But has some kind of blind spot for tidy.
<swoody> haha
<pleia2> oh goodie, do greek boys clean too?
<doctormo> Although she does go mental at me for moving things, even if the way I reorder things takes up 10% of the space.
<swoody> pleia2, no idea, you'd have to ask one ;)
<pleia2> k
<pleia2> hehe
<swoody> try #ubuntu-gr :D
<pleia2> I'm sure that would go over so well :)
<swoody> haha, I could only imagine...
<doctormo> It would be an interesting social experiment.
<swoody> haha, I think 'interesting' is an understatement, but I would like to witness it :)
<swoody> pleia2, also, I want to thank you for your support and kind words last night :)
<pleia2> swoody: of course :) you do great work
<swoody> well thank you. Coming from you, that's a very nice compliment :)
<pleia2> you're quite welcome
<doctormo> What happened last night?
<pleia2> swoody became an ubuntu member
<doctormo> Congratulations swoody
<swoody> thank you doctormo :D
<doctormo> Now you can get a CD
<doctormo> :-P
<swoody> a CD?
<doctormo> It's ok, it's a in joke with the LoCo contacts list
<swoody> ah, ok :)
<d33d> hello world
<d33d> Saj0577, ping - come back and wake up
 * ZachK_ imitates world, waves hello to d33d 
<d33d> ZachK_, hey what's up?
<ZachK_> not much my mahn
<d33d> do you know much about Bzr?
<ZachK_> ah no
<ZachK_> don't know what that
<ZachK_> is
<d33d> bazarr?
<ZachK_> not familiar..know the name
<d33d> ah. that's ok.
<d33d> so ZachK_ what do you do? Where do you fit in to the #ubnuntu-learning crowd?
<ZachK_> d33d, well doc work mainly.....
<ZachK_> d33d, here's my wiki... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18
<d33d> ncie
<d33d> ZachK_, can you explain zenix?
<swoody> hello d33d and ZachK_ :)
<d33d> swoody, waaasssuuupppp!!! (still love it after 9 years)
<ZachK_> d33d, zenix? it's by bodhi_zazen ....what more do you need to know
<swoody> d33d, haha, not too much, thank you :)
<swoody> and you?
<d33d> sorry - <=== newb? i need to know what it is.
<d33d> ZachK_, Might i become a young padawan learner?
<ZachK_> d33d, on what?
<ZachK_> d33d, the bt team?
<d33d> idk - just says you're a mentor on your wiki
<ZachK_> oh..
<d33d> yeah, bt. i guess.
<ZachK_> pm me
<doctormo> d33d: welcome back
<d33d> doctormo, :D
<doctormo> d33d: So, what is it you would like to do?
<d33d> doctormo, do i have to choose?
<d33d> haha.
<d33d> I want it ALL!
<d33d> i'm a dirty american
<d33d> doctormo, are you open to constructive criticisim?
<d33d> doctormo, heading out for lunch however - I think something like this needs to be included when newbies are being taught the command line. http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2002/crapva.jpg
<doctormo> d33d: We can include something like that, I'd want to draw one slightly differently, but it's a good idea to include.
<doctormo> woot! my tiny toon adventures came through netflix! now for some serious unwinding.
<d33d> so it looks like no one is doing the structuring of the content?
<pleia2> everyone is
<pleia2> we do it on the wiki, it evolves as people tweak it
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-October/000067.html
<pleia2> helps
<swoody> pleia2, so for right now, are you still looking to just gather links for the 'How to Use Ubuntu' section?
<swoody> Is there much else that I could tackle at this point?
<pleia2> swoody: that and we're starting to organize the sections some
<pleia2> it's all just ideas tossed up on a wiki right now, we want to start making the structure so it makes sense
<swoody> pleia2, how do you mean? Just trying to avoid over-lap with the structure?
<pleia2> swoody: moving items around on the wiki
<swoody> ah, ok.
<pleia2> if you want to start on the desktop topics, that's cool
<swoody> pleia2, moving them around? I'm not quite sure what you're going for with that :/
<pleia2> swoody: to have an actual structure for the course, right now the list is just a bunch of ideas
<swoody> pleia2, ok, so you're looking to actually start creating 'outlines' for each topic? And fleshing them out a bit?
<pleia2> swoody: yep :)
<swoody> pleia2, ah, ok. So basically just saying what's going to be in each topic?
<pleia2> well, the rough ideas tossed on the wiki now say what is going to be there, we're looking for actual structure now
<pleia2> like "desktop basics should go before how to use open office"
<swoody> So say with 'handling files w/ command line' you'd just want the different commands that would be covered?
<swoody> ah, ok. I think I get what you're saying :)
<swoody> so you just want to re-organize it by what order topics should go in?
<swoody> pleia2, are the topics set as they are, or might it be a good idea to merge a couple topics?...
<swoody> like possibly including 'connecting to the internet' with 'Shopping, chatting, and email'?
<pleia2> swoody: merge away :)
<swoody> pleia2, sounds good :)
<swoody> pleia2, definitely not final-draft, but let me know what you think
<swoody> (when you have the time)
<swoody> I think I can cut out some of the details of some sections...
<swoody> (i.e. the device sections)
<Vantrax> doctormo, nice work with the ubuntu marketing emails
#ubuntu-learning 2009-10-23
<doctormo> Vantrax: Thanks :-)
<Vantrax> if you need any help, let me know
<pleia2> swoody: looks good so far, cprofitt is working on this too so I'll make sure he has a look
 * pleia2 is at a lug meeting for the night, again
<swoody> pleia2, thanks :)
<swoody> I'm thinking I could take out some of the details though, as they seem to be things that would be covered by a topic, and not have to be a sub-topic of it's own
<doctormo> Vantrax: Will do, hopefully something can be helped out with that group
<Saj0577> morning al
<Saj0577> pleia2: you looking for me earlier?
<pleia2> Saj0577: yeah, was just letting you know I was putting together that tx email
<pleia2> but you know that now :)
<Saj0577> argh right no problem :) been asleep was not feeling to grand
 * Saj0577 wishes he could write emails like that lol
<Saj0577> you read the replies and respondeding or am I free to go ahead and reply expalianing about the state exception for countries
<cprofitt> doctormo, can you walk like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w
<cprofitt> I know you have the hat... but not sure about the walk
<cprofitt> that is one of my favorite comedy bits
<doctormo> cprofitt: Well yes, but my legs are not quite as gangly as John cleezes
 * cprofitt smiles
<swoody> hello cprofitt :)
<cprofitt> hey Swoody
<swoody> cprofitt, when you get a chance, could you take a glance at the 'Using Ubuntu' page?
<Saj0577> hey swoody what you doing in here hehe
<swoody> I 'tweaked' it a bit :)
<cprofitt> sure
<swoody> cprofitt, wanted to get your input :)
<swoody> Saj0577, I'm everywhere...
 * swoody disapears into a cloud of smoke...
<Saj0577> I know!!!
<cprofitt> swoody -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics
<cprofitt> that page or the Moodle server?
<cprofitt> I like the additions to the wiki
<swoody> cprofitt, yeah, that page :)
<cprofitt> though were there Ubuntu wiki articles on the items you linked to freeos?
<swoody> not sure, I usually just put up whatever looked best / most complete
<swoody> will look into it though :)
<cprofitt> I would want to make sure that we used the Ubuntu wiki vs. outside sources
<cprofitt> perhaps updating the Ubuntu wiki would be in order if the outside material is not solid...
<cprofitt> though using outside material is not a 'bad' thing
<swoody> cprofitt, sounds good :)
<swoody> I'll be sure to reference the wiki first then :)
<swoody> and I'll check into the ones that I already posted
<cprofitt> Cool... thanks swoody - very good work
<swoody> thank you :)
<pleia2> hooray swoody
<swoody> haha, thanks pleia2 :)
<swoody> so do you two think I should cut out some of the 'details' on the wiki?
<swoody> Like I had mentioned, I think some of the things I listed on there don't need to be sub-listed as they would more than likely be covered by the topic
<cprofitt> swoody, true
<swoody> namely the 'devices' section
<cprofitt> some of the items you listed might fall under 'maintenance' as well
<swoody> but there some others tossed in there, too
<cprofitt> you would have to ask pleia2 and doctormo
<swoody> true, I just re-organized what was there, I really tried not to add/remove much
<swoody> but overlap will have to be looked into as well :)
<pleia2> yeah, we haven't quite sorted out how we're going to make sure all the sections with overlap are dealt with
<pleia2> aside from keeping it in our heads
<cprofitt> swoody, yes... we have to try to avoid duplication
<doctormo> swoody: What aspects of the file system need to be taught for desktop?
<swoody> doctormo, not sure, it was there. I just organized it :)
<swoody> possibly just the basics?
<swoody> your /home and ~/multimedia directories?
<doctormo> swoody: OK, I'm thinking FS, CLI and so on are sharable base lessons for maintence and systems administration, though not desktop.
<doctormo> swoody: You mean XDG directories? I'd keep it to just teaching places and nautilus.
<cprofitt> I would say your /etc too
<cprofitt> and probably /dev
<doctormo> include pluging in devices and mounting an ftp server and your onto a winner
<doctormo> cprofitt: For the desktop?
<cprofitt> I would also think /media
<swoody> cprofitt, nah, I don't think so
<swoody> cprofitt, those may be above the needs of a desktop user
<cprofitt> I have not run server yet...
<cprofitt> and I have used all of those
<cprofitt> not sure you need to go in to great depth... but I think at least knowing about them can help
<swoody> So is the Admin courses directed more towards server use?
<cprofitt> that is the issue...
<swoody> and FYI, I haven't really used /media /dev or /etc :)
<cprofitt> I think we should make the course -- Desktop and Server
<cprofitt> or Using and Maintenance
<cprofitt> swoody, you ever played with your xorg.conf file?
<cprofitt> or checked your /media file to see what items are mounted?
<swoody> surprisingly not really :)
<cprofitt> or use /dev to see what tty you need to use to use minicom?
<swoody> haha, I'm a pretty basic user ;)
<swoody> internet, music, one USB thumb drive every 6 months...
<swoody> IRC, and that's about it :)
<cprofitt> so perhaps we need a 'basic' desktop course and an 'advanced' desktop course
<swoody> that could be useful :)
<cprofitt> I think the confusion is that the 'areas' are Using and Maintenance... but server is only under maintenance and desktop just under using
<swoody> very intro for the soccer moms who want to check their email and blogs...
<doctormo> cprofitt: both of which were in the plan I sent when we were talking about this in the mailing list.
<cprofitt> when there is maintenance on the desktop side and using on the server side
<doctormo> cprofitt: Nah, desktop is under maint too, just hasn't been fleshed out.
<cprofitt> is server under using then too?
<doctormo> And the using on the server side is not infrastructural, setting things up on a server is maint, using a server isn't using a server if you know what I mean.
<cprofitt> doctormo, hmm...
<cprofitt> not sure I follow you.
<doctormo> Because clients use servers, people dont
<cprofitt> so LDAP on a server would just be in the setup...
<cprofitt> and maintaining LDAP via a client would be covered under which area?
<pleia2> server
<pleia2> desktop users will never be maintaining ldap
<doctormo> cprofitt: Desktop maint for client on LDAP, setting up LDAP on server would be server maint.
<cprofitt> Under System Administration and Maintenance?
<doctormo> But they'd have to be bound
<cprofitt> and both of those under sys admin and maintenance right?
<doctormo> Well we're talking about sections here
<cprofitt> yes, the five buttons on our wiki
<doctormo> The classes will be more direct as far as learnign objectives. But devel sections aren't always going to relate.
<cprofitt> I figured...
<doctormo> So we may not have to duplicate under two sections
<cprofitt> but LDAP both client and server will be under the How To Maintain 'area' on our wiki?
<doctormo> yes
<cprofitt> k
<doctormo> Most of what we know here in the technical world is maint, because use seems so obvious.
<cprofitt> where would things like teaching some basic command line be?
<pleia2> I'd say server, maybe an option addon to desktop course
<pleia2> we don't want to scare people off from desktop use, command line is scary
<cprofitt> why do we keep saying server...
<pleia2> sorry
<pleia2> whatever we're calling it, maintenance?
<pleia2> sysadmin?
<cprofitt> I think that is what is throwing me
<doctormo> cprofitt: Well technically cli is use, and it's a base class for most sys admin maint. So it's possible to do basic cli in use, but I'd put it in maint as it's not really used for only use as much for the people we want to teach.
<cprofitt> there is a Sys Admin and Maintenance
<cprofitt> and Desktop and Application area on our wiki
<pleia2> cprofitt: sorry, i've just shortended it to desktop and server like we did on the wiki
<doctormo> Yea, sysadmin is a subtopic of maint.
<cprofitt> pleia2, but the wiki has not been shortened to server... unless I am missing that part...
<cprofitt> and I might have missed it
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> well nevermind then, I am too sleepy to watch my terms so carefully so I think I'll just let you guys do this :)
<pleia2> s/carefully/carefully examined
<cprofitt> I look at the CLI as necessary for desktop -- at least a little under a troubleshooting course.
 * pleia2 seeks pillows and things
<cprofitt> pleia2, -- no issue... but I was just trying to keep the areas sep.
<cprofitt> so the CLI item would be under sysadmin/maintenance but considered a desktop level (at basic CLI)
<doctormo> cprofitt: But trouble shooting is desktop maint.
<cprofitt> and a more advanced CLI would be sysadmin/maintenance but a server related course?
<doctormo> yes
<cprofitt> right doctormo and parts of desktop will fall under sys admin / maint
<cprofitt> I understand where you are coming from now with 'use'
<cprofitt> You mean use as in 'end' user use only
<cprofitt> that helps me 'grasp' how we are dividing stuff up
<cprofitt> with that said... File Permissions is a grey area swoody
<swoody> haha
<cprofitt> all of the command line stuff on the page you linked should be moved to the other page
<swoody> well like I said, in my defense, I'm not creator or destoyer, I just organized it :)
<swoody> ok, will do :)
<cprofitt> the installing applications should be moved as well..
<cprofitt> that is not really using, but maintenance
<doctormo> sorry about that
<doctormo> computer crashed
<swoody> sounds good
<cprofitt> I would say File System can stay in a light version... Intro to Command line and Installing Apps moved to maintenance
<doctormo> cprofitt: Last thing you said was [Thu Oct 22 2009] [23:26:28] <cprofitt> pleia2, -- no issue... but I was just trying to keep the areas sep.
<swoody> do you guys want the 'Desktop usage' to only include apps that come pre-installed with Ubuntu?
<doctormo> No wait, that's just the last thing in my log, I know you said thigns after that.
<doctormo> swoody: Well, the desktop use should first contain gnome desktop, then gnome panels (like nautilus) then further out to default apps, last priority to other apps.
<doctormo> I'd make an exception for inkscape
<swoody> that's what I figured :)
<swoody> but default for Jaunty, or Karmic?
<cprofitt> I think Apps, even if not default, can be using
<cprofitt> but installing apps = maintenance
<cprofitt> I do not think we need to make a distinction between default and not default
<cprofitt> TuxRacer is not going to be maintenance
<doctormo> So sysadmin != maint, maint is the super topic and sysadmin will just be a set of classes/courses that emerge I think from those topics.
<swoody> cprofitt, could be if you want it to be ;)
<doctormo> But also in maint (and not sysadmin) is the desktop maint.
<cprofitt> doctormo, I am just going by the buttons you have...
<doctormo> The buttons may need rewording, I know I need to reword the community area.
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> using and maintenance areas make it 'cleaner' I think
<cprofitt> could just be my odd mind though
<doctormo> OK so I think changing "Systems Administration and Maintenance" to "Desktop Maintenance and Server Administration"
<doctormo> cprofitt: your thoughts?
<doctormo> Og course that does leave client administration as a hanging by line of server admin, hmm.
<cprofitt> I would just make it Maintenance and Using
<cprofitt> the desktop vs. server vs. sys admin is a course organization thing, not a topic organization thing
<Saj0577> Maintenace and Usage   :)
<cprofitt> that works Saj0577
<cprofitt> doctormo, does that work for you?
<doctormo> cprofitt: Sure, so are you saying I should remove the sub-text to the buttons?
<cprofitt> or change it...
<cprofitt> maintenance / sysadmin is still valid I think.
<cprofitt> the How should just not be limited to desktop
<cprofitt> systems administration could be removed... too...
<cprofitt> I think that would probably make it less confusing
<doctormo> cprofitt: The word How?
<cprofitt> its almost like sys admin should have it own button... and programming / community development could be broken apart too...
<doctormo> Just "Maintain Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu Maintenance"
<cprofitt> either works...
<cprofitt> if you have Use Ubuntu -- then Maintain
<cprofitt> if you have Using Ubuntu then Maintaining
 * cprofitt smiles
<cprofitt> sound good?
<doctormo> cprofitt: Lets not go wild just yet, I'd rather see problem organising on those wiki pages before I create more topics, otherwise we'll get a little bit of choice paralasys.
<doctormo> So splitting up to be decided later on?
<cprofitt> that is fine.
<doctormo> The wording I agree on though :-) sounds good
<doctormo> Damn IRC and it's async chat.
<doctormo> I think I'll get off to bed, trying to sleep properly again
<swoody> Just FYI, I've been trying to get things setup with some new people for Folding Jam, so I'll read all the logs to catch up :)
<cprofitt> k swoody
<swoody> good morning everyone :)
<doctormo> hello swoody
<swoody> how's life treating you today, doctormo ?
#ubuntu-learning 2009-10-24
<cprofitt> pleia2, bodhi_zazen swoody Saj0577 you guys here?
<swoody> cprofitt, nope ;)
<cprofitt> swoody -- can you offer an opinion?
<Saj0577> sure am.
<cprofitt> you to Saj0577
<Saj0577> yep sure can
<swoody> cprofitt, yes, buy organic produce...
<pleia2> cprofitt: hey
<cprofitt> when should a course for the UCLP be considered 'done'?
<pleia2> swoody: no way, buy local :)
<cprofitt> hey pleia2
<swoody> pleia2, local *and* orgamic :)
<Saj0577> cprofitt: when all the content is done, and its been tested, and everyones had a look over it for possible improvements etc.
<pleia2> content done, tech and peer reviewed
<cprofitt> Saj0577, by content do we mean asciidoc, Moodle, pdf conversion?
<pleia2> I think "done" is a poor term though, ubuntu changes
<swoody> +1 pleia2 and Saj0577
<cprofitt> I agree pleia2
<pleia2> asciidoc
<cprofitt> I was just reviewing the pages... and it prompted me to ask
<cprofitt> as things are marked 'done'
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> those are ones doctormo has taught in classrooms
<cprofitt> so if a person creates a Moodle course w/o asciidoc it would not be marked 'done' until it was converted?
<pleia2> we can probably convert "done" to links to moodle content, acsciidoc, etc
<cprofitt> pleia2, but are those in asciidoc?
<swoody> cprofitt, well I think 'done' and 'completed' can be two different things...
<pleia2> so instead of done you say "link to moodle" "link to pdf" etc
<cprofitt> swoody, that is what I was thinking...
<cprofitt> I tend to ask 'open ended' questions
<cprofitt> to not poison responses...
<swoody> 'done' for when the info itself has been reviewed, and the course looks solid, and then 'completed' when it's been converted into whatever formats it needs to be
<Saj0577> when it is a stage where it could be used my students
<cprofitt> I was thinking we should likely use a table -- have columns for in-person, Moodle, source (asciidoc) and complete
<pleia2> +1
<swoody> cprofitt, that would help keep things organized :)
<cprofitt> yeah... that is what I am thinking...
<Saj0577> yeah +1
<cprofitt> otherwise we will not know what 'parts' are done...
<swoody> true
<cprofitt> perhaps add a column for peer review too...
<cprofitt> pleia2, mentioned that ... and that is important
<cprofitt> some courses may end up being 'NA' for certain formats...
<cprofitt> as some courses will not work well in Moodle
<swoody> yes, but that shouldn't pose any issues keeping track of it's progress
<cprofitt> I agree...
<swoody> again, just with 'N/A' where reqired
<cprofitt> but if a course does not fit a medium we NA and it can be complete without that particular medium
<swoody> indeed :)
<cprofitt> sound good pleia2 ?
<pleia2> yep
<swoody> so would this be on a completely separate wiki page for 'course progress'?
<cprofitt> I think so...
<swoody> then having the chart organized by each 'category' (i.e. use, maint.) and then have all the courses listed under them
<cprofitt> I think we have a page for course ideas... and a sub-page for each course...
<cprofitt> with one page with a table of all current courses in production and development
<swoody> cprofitt, that would work well. So you can leave notes/ideas/questions about that specific course on its own sub-page, and keep the chart nice and minimal
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> cool...
<cprofitt> I was just thinking about it after I saw Swoody's edits
<swoody> cprofitt, happen to look over the revised Desktop User wiki?
<swoody> cprofitt, ah, so you did see the changes :)
<cprofitt> I was reviewing them now...
<swoody> any feedback? Did I miss anything, or leave anything out?
<swoody> ah, sounds good :)
<swoody> trying to use wiki. and help. more for references, but some Ubuntu pages are really lacking
<swoody> OO.o, Evolution, Piding, and some others
<swoody> Pidgin*
<redsnyper> hello room!
<redsnyper> i need help
<pleia2> swoody: nooo, empathy! ;)
<pleia2> redsnyper: we do ubuntu related course development here, regular ubuntu support is over in #ubuntu :)
<swoody> pleia2, haha, I asked that the other day, but didn't get a response :)
<swoody> redsnyper, or #ubuntu-beginners-help :)
<redsnyper> my apologies
<swoody> redsnyper, no problem :)
<pleia2> swoody: people were muttering about the switched from pidgin a but at my lug last night
<swoody> pleia2, but I'll change that. Minor detail ;)
<pleia2> much "what's wrong with pidgin? :("
<swoody> pleia2, yeah, I can understand that
<swoody> not a big fan of it myself
<swoody> and I still use Pidgin ;)
 * pleia2 has used bitlbee for about 4 years
<swoody> pleia2, out of curiosity, what do you go by on the forum? (can PM if you'd like)
<pleia2> prior to that I didn't bother with IM, prior to that I dabbled with gaim, prior to that I was probably on windows
<pleia2> elizabeth
<swoody> ah, makes sense :)
<swoody> and I think I've seen you around a bit...
<pleia2> I am pretty much just on loco forums and ubuntu women
<swoody> hmm... well it sounds familiar :/
<cprofitt> I sent an email to the list to get more feedback
<swoody> looks good :)
<cprofitt> switching computers...
 * cprofitt asks what the greatest Eagles song of all time is
<Saj0577> no idea
<cprofitt> Google agrees with me -- http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Greatest+Eagles+song+of+all+time&btnG=Search
<swoody> cprofitt, hotel california :D
<cprofitt> YEP
<swoody> cprofitt, oh and a big +1 to silly walks, but I think the Spanish Inquisition trumps it ;)
<cprofitt> Yeah... that one is good too...
<cprofitt> Lumberjack is awesome too
<swoody> haha, yeah it is  :)
<swoody> oh wait no!!
<swoody> Best ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gpjk_MaCGM
<swoody> well, I'm off for the night, so take care all :)
<ZachK_> later swoody's
<cprofitt_dt1> anyone here?
<paultag> yo cprofitt_dt1
<cprofitt_dt1> http://i37.tinypic.com/2mh7cxu.jpg -- what do you think paultag ?
<paultag> cprofitt_dt1, powerpoint bg?
<cprofitt_dt1> presentation -- OO
<paultag> cprofitt_dt1, looks nice, I'll be sure to save that :)
<paultag> cprofitt_dt1, Right you are
<cprofitt_dt1> cool... I will upload it to an Ubuntu promotional material site as well
<cprofitt_dt1> spreadbuntu
<paultag> cprofitt_dt1, awesome
<paultag> BRB
<cprofitt_dt1> k
<paultag> Back
<paultag> Oh, well shucks. He is gone anywho
<pleia2> heeeeello paultag!
<paultag> oh hey pleia2 :)
<paultag> pleia2, how are you?
<pleia2> I just spilled a bottle of water on my couch :\
<paultag> Well shucks
<pleia2> but otherwise, good!
<pleia2> hehe
<paultag> Good to hear :)
<pleia2> you?
<paultag> Not so good comrade pleia2 :(
<paultag> pleia2, I have contracted H1N1
<pleia2> aww
 * pleia2 hugs paultag 
<pleia2> oh, that sucks
<paultag> Might not want to get too close :P
<pleia2> yeah, I haven't been vaccinated yet!
<paultag> But other then that, good :)
<pleia2> will on tuesday when I go in for a checkup if my doctor has it
<paultag> pleia2, for sure. This sucks
<pleia2> bad flu, or worse?
<paultag> It's a bad flu, but you don't get a stuffy nose
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I already caught a regular stuffynose+fever flu this year, flu season started waaaay too early
<paultag> It's not good _at all_
<pleia2> you should be paultag_h1n1
<paultag_h1n1> :)
<pleia2> hehe
<[V]ortex`> hello
<[V]ortex`> how do i resize my desktop?
<ZachK_> [V]ortex`, meaning the screen size?
<[V]ortex`> oops is there anyone alive here?
<paultag_h1n1> Nope [V]ortex`
<[V]ortex`> :(
<[V]ortex`> does anyone know if firefox 3.5 is supported by ubuntu jaunty?
<[V]ortex`> cos it says 3.5 beta
<[V]ortex`> but it's been 3.5 stable in windows xp for quite long
<paultag_h1n1> [V]ortex`, this is not a help channel :)
<[V]ortex`> oops ok
<[V]ortex`> ignore that then
<paultag_h1n1> [V]ortex`, it's ok
<paultag_h1n1> [V]ortex`, you can head to #ubuntu-beginners-help
<paultag_h1n1> [V]ortex`, or #ubuntu
<[V]ortex`> ok thanks paultag_h1n1
<paultag_h1n1> [V]ortex`, np
<MenDan> hello what's wrong about my nautilus :nautilus[17816]: segfault at 3 ip b7817046 sp bfb0e4e0 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.2200.2[b77c0000+b4000
<paultag_h1n1> MenDan, this is not a help channel
<paultag_h1n1> MenDan, for help please go to #ubuntu
<MenDan> ok thanks also
<paultag_h1n1> MenDan, sure
<pleia2> doctormo: "moodled" makes me giggle (I like it!)
<doctormo> pleia2: Thanks :-)
<doctormo> pleia2: How is your day shaping up?
<doctormo> pleia2: Are you really on a machine with 4GiB of RAM because Karmic was harmful to the swap with anything less?
<pleia2> doctormo: no, my system has 2G of ram (and I'm not running karmic now)
<doctormo> pleia2: hmm, perhaps that comment I saw wasn't by you
<pleia2> I commented, but not that one :)
<swoody> Well guys, I'm going to be away for the rest of today and tomorrow, so I'll see you all later :)
<swoody> take care
<pleia2> have a nice weekend, swoody
<swoody> thanks, and you as well pleia2 :D
<doctormo> have a good weekend
<cprofitt> Saj0577, you here?
<doctormo> hey cprofitt
<cprofitt> hey doctormo
<cprofitt> I sent a message to the list...
<doctormo> Aye got it
<doctormo> I wouldn't agree that your proposed status table would be a refinement, I quite like the existing system proposed by pleia2
<doctormo> It's simple and splits things out nicely for each stage we need to work out
<doctormo> Of course, I won't be focusing publishing on moodle, so my ideas are somewhat skewed towards development.
<cprofitt> but can you point me to the log from the meeting in which the group adopted asciidoc officially
<cprofitt> I am sorry you do not agree with me on the refinement.
<cprofitt> Where is Pleia's plan documented? Does it included courses or just sections?
<cprofitt> doctormo, I hope you will focus on publishing in Moodle... as we have agreed to publish in all three formats; right?
<cprofitt> As a board member I think we have to really try to support all the formats in the project...
<cprofitt> I want to work with bioselement this week potentially to see how asciidoc works
<doctormo> Aye, we've agreed to publish in all formats, so all considerations need to be made. This is why my statement is to admit that my proposals will not be as well rounded as required by the whole process. Those with more expertese are needed to help fill in the holes.
<cprofitt> do you have a link to the proposed system from pleia?
<doctormo> wasn't it on the mailing list? i'll digg into the archives for it
<cprofitt> I have been looking for it...
<cprofitt> my recollection is that it was a general overview of the entire process...
<doctormo> Yes
<cprofitt> not for what I was discussing... the creation of 'classes' or 'courses'
<cprofitt> for 'items' we adopt we really need to, as a team, document things on the wiki
<cprofitt> so that we do not need to go back to mailing lists, etc for things we adopt.
<cprofitt> documentation of the process is crucial to other people being able to  look at our project and decide to join... then become active
<cprofitt> There was a long period in which I got nothing from the list as well...
<cprofitt> doctormo, on a side not did you like the background? http://ftbeowulf.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/bckgrnd11.png
<doctormo> Interesting, a technical problem perhaps
<cprofitt> it seems like it...
<cprofitt> when i switched from daily digest to regular I started getting them again
<doctormo> cprofitt: It's nice, only niggle would be the ubuntu logo, which seems like it's cut out of a white backgrounded raster image, instead I recomend making use of the svg images with semi transparencies for shadows.
<doctormo> The digest might be set wrong, it might ony send when it's gotten enough emails.
<doctormo> AFAUS Class writing is pretty much a feature of wiki to asciidoc, even if it ends up going through odf or moodle first.
<cprofitt> I am not talking about 'just writing' a course...
<doctormo> As for team organisation, I think perhaps a page with all adopted things, ordered so we can reference them if required and amend them in further meetings.
<cprofitt> doctormo, exactly...
<cprofitt> or perhaps place them in the applicable section.
<doctormo> The last this we want to do is become too officious, where everything revolves around what we've agreed on, using regulation as a way to beat people into line isn't always best for projects. I have a feeling that a certain amount of this is going to be a little random until we've been at it for a few years.
<cprofitt> I am talking about the 'course' design...
<cprofitt> as it seems like we are really writing 'topics'...
<cprofitt> and then we combine those topics in to 'courses'
<doctormo> Yes, so in development we have those 5 sections
<doctormo> This is why I didn't want us to get too hung up about those 5 sections. It's not like they'll translate into courses.
<cprofitt> exactly..
<cprofitt> what I was trying to communicate in the email was the process of 'designing a course' from the content.
<cprofitt> we will need to 'mash it'
<cprofitt> then convert it to a written media, Moodle format, etc...
<cprofitt> the table was for that process... to be on the 'course' page
<cprofitt> eventually we may have 'content' that can be made in to a custom course...
<cprofitt> and already made courses
<cprofitt> we may have a course in in-person format... that could just be transferred to Moodle
<doctormo> If course organisation needs to go on the wiki, then we'll need some new pages, I'm fine with you taking charge of that and proposing any sort of publishing status tables your happy with.
<cprofitt> we need a way to organize all that...
<cprofitt> I will work on something to show as an example.
<cprofitt> I feel that we have such diverse experiences that it is a must to produce examples
<doctormo> I mean, I want the classes to be very mashable, if someone takes from our sections and develops something interesting etc.
<cprofitt> so that we have a 'bridge' to what we are talking about.
<cprofitt> I find often that you and I are saying different things, but meaning things that are very close
<doctormo> I was thinking, is there a simple import format for moodle books?
<cprofitt> and when we butt heads it is because neither can see what the other is really saying
<cprofitt> Moodle packages its courses as .zip files...
<doctormo> Aye, looking at different things.
<cprofitt> but it is not a 'common' format by any means
<doctormo> Could you email be a sample course zip file? I'll see how easy it is to put something together to generate them for bare bones importing.
<doctormo> That should help bridge
<cprofitt> it also works with the SCORM format... but I have not seen that.
<cprofitt> doctormo, if you go to this course - http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=6
<cprofitt> and just hit 'backup' it should generate that zip file for you.
<doctormo> thanks
<cprofitt> np
#ubuntu-learning 2009-10-25
<doctormo> by the way, how is Vantax doing on the style sheets for moodle?
<cprofitt> to be honest I am not sure...
<cprofitt> I have not asked him about it.
<cprofitt> do you know anything about Latex?
<cprofitt> doctormo, other than the logo -- what did you think of the slide background?
<doctormo> I know a little about Latex
<doctormo> I think it's good, it's nice and light, which is good for readability.
<cprofitt> A person asked me to convert that image to Latex
<doctormo> That doesn't make sense to me, I always figured images like that were set as importable objects and that what you really made in latex was akind of positional template for various elements.
<cprofitt> I will have to ask him then...
<cprofitt> do you have an SVG source for the logo?
<cprofitt> http://imagebin.ca/view/WYzAgR.html
<cprofitt> interesting diagram...
<cprofitt> we need to publish some of this stuff from the mailing list...
<cprofitt> http://imagebin.ca/view/SwoftK3.html
<cprofitt> http://imagebin.ca/view/a2vo651b.html
<cprofitt> I mean that was a bit of work doctormo and it is all hidden and obscured
<cprofitt> doctormo, this is the proposal you liked from pleia2  - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-October/000070.html
<cprofitt> correct?
<doctormo> Yes
<doctormo> I just commited those to the bzr today actually.
<doctormo> Perhaps we need to ask about each of them at a meeting before they go to the wiki
<cprofitt> yeah... that would be good.
<cprofitt> I really want things like that up on our wiki... so potential contributors can see it
<cprofitt> I am not finding an svg version of the logo.
<cprofitt> ... how do you take an svg and add it to a GIMP file?
<cprofitt> hmm... seem like just open it... and render...
<doctormo> Aye
<doctormo> You can also open it in inkscape
<doctormo> sorry for not responding, I'm baby sitting / dog sitting and the dog was going all stressed
<cprofitt> I have two kids that are bouncing off the walls right now... so I can understand
<doctormo>  Do you still need an svg?
<doctormo> Have you seen the svg I used for the command line basics presentation?
<doctormo> cprofitt: Can we put on the agenda for the next meeting to elect a person responsbile for talking care of some administrative functions for the group?
<cprofitt> doctormo, sounds good to me...
<doctormo> This would include organising meetings, chairing meetings, adding a section to the wiki on agreed administrative functions, structures etc and basically writing this sort of thing up. including posting meeting notes to the mailing list for archival?
<doctormo> paultag, pleia2, hal14450, Reepicheep, Saj0577, maxb, Extend: Any of you want to take care of some group administrative functions?
<paultag> Yo, what's up
<doctormo> there are some parts to our group function that may not be functioning as well as they need to be.
<doctormo> So perhaps someone who's job, responsibility and final say on these matters is required.
<doctormo> But I want to sound people out and see if anyone is even willing to do it, otherwise the meeting will be pretty dull.
<paultag> I feel that I have been less then active in here, but I would not mind providing some help where it is needed
<doctormo> paultag: Is it the kind of thing your good at/will enjoy doing/can be reasonable expected to attend to at a steady rate?
<ZachK_> heya all
<paultag> doctormo, yes, I am almost always online. I have no problem helping lead
<doctormo> paultag: lead? no, the position would be leadership of administrative functions. The board would be used to decide things though. Or at least that's what I'm thinking.
<paultag> doctormo, Sorry, that's what I meant. I am a bit out of it right now
<doctormo> np, recover :-)
<paultag> thanks :)
<pleia2> yeah, I've sorta been doing some of that but not reliably lately
<paultag> Is there a google cal for this team?
<pleia2> no, when we plan meetings we put them on the fridge calendar
<paultag> OK
<pleia2> the doodle poll on our wiki shows best times for most of us (sunday and monday evening edt)
<paultag> Cool
<pleia2> but honestly when it comes to course development workflow I think we're at the point where we all just need to write some stuff and start getting a feel for it
<pleia2> we can design structure all we want, but we won't really know what is perfect until we really get rolling with it
<cprofitt> pleia2, doctormo and I were just discussing the difference between content generation and course design
<pleia2> ah
<cprofitt> Not sure if you saw my post on the idea of how to organize the status of a course
<pleia2> yes, I did
<doctormo> Aye, me and Bios have spent the day writing some of the courses up
<cprofitt> doctormo, what did you put the courses in?
<doctormo> So far trunk2, we're not finished yet
<doctormo> It's just development step
<cprofitt> I think I finally came up with a good analogy for some of this...
<cprofitt> asciidoc = source
<cprofitt> Moodle = compiled for 64bit
<cprofitt> PDF = compiled fro 32bit
<cprofitt> ... does that fit?
<cprofitt> what is trunk2?
 * cprofitt smiles
<cprofitt> not good then?
<cprofitt> doctormo,
<doctormo> hello
<doctormo> cprofitt: good analogy
<cprofitt> Do you use 'classes' the same way I use 'topics'?
<doctormo> possible
<cprofitt> I looked at -- http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~doctormo/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2/annotate/head%3A/courses/sys-admin/introduction.txt
<cprofitt> and it looks like you do...
<doctormo> Sections > Topics == development, Courses > Classes == Publishing. But that's not fixed
<cprofitt> the .List of classes -- looks like what I call topics
<cprofitt> what is the > mean in that above?
<cprofitt> I define course as - 10. 	a program of instruction, as in a college or university: a course in economics.
<cprofitt> which we seem to share a definition on
<doctormo> > means contains
<cprofitt> but the sub-components of a course are topics to me
<doctormo> only because in my teaching I split them out into teachable classes
<cprofitt> classes =  	a group of students meeting regularly to study a subject under the guidance of a teacher: The class had arrived on time for the lecture.
<cprofitt> right... so they are topics you are covering in 'classes'
<cprofitt> but not classes...
<ZachK_> yada
<cprofitt> another reason I was getting confused...
<paultag> cprofitt, it looks like classes are being taught in sessions
<cprofitt> some topics might take more than one session...
<cprofitt> but a topic is a single topic.
<cprofitt> the amount of time a topic takes would be determined by the length of the session...
<cprofitt> 1 hour, 2 hour, 1 week on-line...
<cprofitt> so the sessions would be variable -- while topics would not; correct?
<cprofitt> paultag, I agree...
<paultag> cprofitt, Sorry, courses are taught in classes.
 * paultag goes idle again
<cprofitt> classes (or sessions) could have only one topic or more than one... depending on the 'length' of the session.
<cprofitt> doctormo...
<cprofitt> with asciidocs... if I am following the asciidoc component would be the topics -- in individual parts...
<cprofitt> the asciidoc would also contain the 'outline' of topics
<cprofitt> is that accurate?
<paultag> why asciidoc cprofitt?
<doctormo> I tend to afix a session size as two hours of teach/student intruction and time. Then other parts, it was worth defining a string of classes which progress as an entire course develops, instead of topics which are too ridgid to teach in my real world sessions.
<paultag> cprofitt, that is almost as low as Text
<paultag> +1 doctormo
<cprofitt> not sure paultag doctormo and bioselement want to use them as 'source' documents
<paultag> Ah, cotcha
<cprofitt> for producing the PDF, HTML, etc.
<paultag> gotcha.
<paultag> Makes sense.
<cprofitt> doctormo, so a person making a course made in one hour chunks would need to write a new course...
<cprofitt> or if the course was to be put in to Moodle with a five week period it would have to have a different asciidoc  course?
<doctormo> cprofitt: It should be possible to bring the component parts together into different lengths, as each asciidoc is not really one file.
<cprofitt> right...
<cprofitt> but the 'course outline' would need to be different... right?
<cprofitt> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~doctormo/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2/annotate/head%3A/courses/sys-admin/introduction.txt
<doctormo> Yep
<cprofitt> one would change that...
<cprofitt> k.
<doctormo> If you needed the course to be longer, shorter etc
 * cprofitt starting to understand more
<cprofitt> not longer or shorter for the course...
<cprofitt> but the 'sessions' would change
<doctormo> ah yes, sorry
<doctormo> The topics, classes would be longer or shorter. Some of that may be down to compression.
<cprofitt> yea...
<cprofitt> now... in an attempt to 'refine'
<cprofitt> if you are willing to entertain my idea doctormo
<cprofitt> would be to just list the topics in the main doc... with a time the topic takes...
<cprofitt> and a total 'course' time
<cprofitt> then it could be used in multiple versions of the course...
<cprofitt> would that work doctormo ?
<doctormo> cprofitt: I'd need to think about how to encode time information, perhaps in the teachers part of the section.
<doctormo> Perhaps three times, a) Instructional time, b) classroom time, c) Student at home time (i.e. 1 week)
<cprofitt> doctormo, I have not seen a course that tied itself to specific time amounts per session...
<doctormo> cprofitt: I only do that because it made it easier to teach.
<cprofitt> lesson plans are made to break that stuff up... but the course outline itself did not try to break it up to specific sessions.
<cprofitt> doctormo, yes... from the perspective of making one course that fits your current style that works...
<cprofitt> but for an overall course design that accommodates multiple 'styles' it might not be the best fit
<cprofitt> K-12 Courses do not even 'control' the specific pattern all the topics are covered in...
<doctormo> Sure, and in the case of the format of how things are going to be written, it's just a matter of uncompressing certain parts (which I compressed) and splitting them up as required.
<doctormo> We can document things in a way that allows us to control the output, but we can't really develop things so that they can model every teaching style. That may just be a matter of crossing that birdge when we come to it
<doctormo> Otherwise, we'd not be able to do anything.
<cprofitt> doctormo, that is my point
<cprofitt> I do not see a need to divide the things up to the level you have
<cprofitt> let the course instructor handle that...
<doctormo> I haven't split things up, except in terms of subject matter.
<doctormo> If they're not split up there, then we won't be able to develop effectivly.
<cprofitt> no, no I agree... with how they are on your page...
<cprofitt> just change the 'heading' to topics
<cprofitt> and include the time period it takes to cover the topic
<doctormo> what heading?
<cprofitt> the heading of 'classes' change it to just 'topics'
<cprofitt> http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-006Spring-2008/LectureNotes/index.htm
<cprofitt> that is an example of a course... that shows what I mean
<cprofitt> he has course sessions... and the topics take several 'sessions'
<cprofitt> some topics take more sessions that others...
<cprofitt> I do not think we have to break our topics up -- let the instructors do that...
<cprofitt> we just define a course and the topics contained with in...
 * cprofitt smiles
<cprofitt> does that make sense?
<cprofitt> doctormo, ?
<cprofitt> hey doctormo -- what was the last part you had of my discussion with you?
<doctormo> My computer crashed, sorry about that.
<cprofitt> np
 * doctormo will never buy from system76 again
<cprofitt> http://pastebin.com/d623b24f9
<cprofitt> there is a pastebin
<doctormo> [Sat Oct 24 2009] [20:59:57] <cprofitt> he has course sessions... and the topics take several 'sessions'
<cprofitt> really... had issues with them?
<doctormo> this machine isn't up to snuff, there is some kind of power fault or some weird faltingness to it.
<cprofitt> I bought Lenovo... because they are very good laptops
<cprofitt> I build my own desktops
<doctormo> The problem is that the computer works most of the time, so when I sent it back to them, they couldn't find a problem and thus didn't want to fix it (it needed replacing)
<doctormo> It's hard to find intermitant failures and the problem is that I couldn't keep on sending it back to them, I need it, it's my only computer.
<cprofitt> true...
<cprofitt> so... back on to our previous topic...
<cprofitt> do you understand what I was saying about how to just list topics w/ time to cover the topic
<doctormo> so, from what you were saying about topics, the way we're doing it is correct and your happy with topics in devel.
<cprofitt> instead of breaking it up in to a chunk size you like?
<cprofitt> yeah... just do not call them classes... or restrict them to being 1 hour or 1 hours... etc..
<cprofitt> makes the documents we are using much more versatile IMHO
<doctormo> I agree, of course I will backport to asciidoc what we have and work from there
<cprofitt> cool...
<cprofitt> I think I see how asciidoc fits now...
<cprofitt> at least from my vantage point it now has a place I can understand
<cprofitt> ... another organizations thing...
<cprofitt> with LP -- how will that be organized... by the 'areas'?
<doctormo> In LP, so far only a single project exists and a single trunk branch, but it's possible to split out if it becomes a problem.
<cprofitt> ... so all topics will be in the same branch under the same LP page?
<doctormo> yes, ubuntu-learning-materials
<doctormo> the trunk development should be lp:ubuntu-learning-materials
<doctormo> But branches will be expected as people edit and create various modifications.
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> I will try to get more familiar with that.
<cprofitt> doctormo, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning-materials ?
<doctormo> yes
<cprofitt> it comes up empty
<cprofitt> ah... w/o the ~
<doctormo> Aye, so cprofitt, now that we've gone over some of the structures and symantics, are you more confident and trusting of my decisions so far?
<cprofitt> that is a loaded question.
<cprofitt> it implies that there was a lack of trust before... which there was not.
<cprofitt> it was a lack of understanding and a desire to understand it
<cprofitt> I never questioned the groups decisions... in fact I was unaware that they were your decisions.
<cprofitt> I knew you supported them... and worked on them...
<doctormo> Well so far I've been the person writing stuff, so it came to pass that descisions were made so things could get written.
<cprofitt> true...
<doctormo> The problem today has been that I've felt like I've been defending all my work to your scrutiny. It didn't feel like you were just asking questions, but that may just be the language employed.
<doctormo> Either way, I want you to know that I've been uncorfortable
<cprofitt> I guess it is tough at times to tell the difference; why would you have felt that I was questioning the validity of your work?
<paultag> Sorry to jump in here
<paultag> cprofitt, I've been tracking this, you did come off a bit aggressive
<cprofitt> please enlighten me to what you viewed as aggressive
<paultag> cprofitt, Loaded questions like that :X
<cprofitt> I know I was having a hard time following some of the items and asked several times for clarification
<cprofitt> paultag, I am honestly asking for you to tell me where...
<paultag> cprofitt, YOU tell me why I was being aggressive. It's hard to read nuance over text.
<cprofitt> that is true...
<paultag> cprofitt, so try to work conservatively and read liberally
<paultag> cprofitt, as a good rule of thumb :)
<paultag> I'm sorry, write *
<paultag> Long nite :)
<cprofitt> paultag, seriously... how can one ask questions and get information if they do not understand...
<cprofitt> if there was something you can point to that would be great... it would give me an example.
<paultag> cprofitt, Worded with tact, and acknowledging that one might not understand something
<paultag> cprofitt, Sentiences like that can be construed as aggressive
<paultag> cprofitt, I'm not passing judgment here, I'm just posting my commentary. I have been just watching
<cprofitt> I am not following paultag
<paultag> cprofitt, I am totally removed from this issue.
<cprofitt> paultag, not challenging that impartiality... just really trying to see what you are saying...
<paultag> cprofitt, Meditate on it, perhaps thinking about how you read text would help. I don't think I can state it too much clearly :/
<cprofitt> I am sorry paultag I really could use a more clear example from you...
<cprofitt> was this the sentence you are referring too -- if there was something you can point to that would be great... it would give me an example.
<paultag> cprofitt, I won't. Showing you instances won't help the big picture
<cprofitt> w/o examples I am not sure how to proceed.
<paultag> cprofitt, Think about it. And how you read other's IRC messages.
<paultag> cprofitt, It will come to you. Of that I am sure.
<paultag> I'm not being argumentative or attacking how you conduct yourself, just figured I would add another ( impartial ) viewpoint :)
<cprofitt> paultag, I can appreciate that. I work better with examples - fresh in my mind.
<paultag> cprofitt, Understood. Perhaps review your logs.
<cprofitt> I have been...
<cprofitt> http://pastebin.com/d3ebdb257
<doctormo> cprofitt: since this is my thing, I'll find one
<paultag> cprofitt, Just read through a few times. At least until you figure out "* cprofitt smiles" can be considered condescending
 * cprofitt smiles
<cprofitt> thanks.
<cprofitt> omg
<paultag> Ouch
<paultag> Good timing
<cprofitt> paultag, that was advice that someone else suggested I do to lighten things up
<paultag> cprofitt, perhaps consider using emotocons
<cprofitt> I am a rather straight forward person..
<cprofitt> sorry... sarcasm coming now...
<paultag> Clearly :)
<cprofitt> what is different from :)
<cprofitt> and /me smiles
<doctormo> [Sat Oct 24 2009] [18:36:34] <cprofitt> but can you point me to the log from the meeting in which the group adopted asciidoc officially
 * cprofitt nods to doctormo 
<paultag> cprofitt, the difference between a patronizing smile, and a genuine one, over text, I'm afraid
<cprofitt> paultag, so you are saying that : ) is genuine and /me smiles is not?
<paultag> cprofitt, over text, yes. That's how it's taken
 * doctormo grins like the cheshire cat
<paultag> cprofitt, /me smiles is taken as "I'm right, and you should know that"
<cprofitt> That is stupid
<paultag> Noted duly
<cprofitt> I had no idea that was a convetion....
<cprofitt> my god that is stupid
<paultag> Noted dully :P
<paultag> Erm, dually
<paultag> Word puns \o/
<cprofitt> I knew about SCREAMING
<doctormo> Actually I took /me smilies to mean, he smilies. I see no alternate motive or meaning.
<paultag> Ah, I read those differently :)
<cprofitt> but never thought /me 'action' was inferred as something other that what was said
<paultag> cprofitt, Indeed it can be
<paultag> cprofitt, Such as this case here.
<paultag> ( imho )
 * doctormo does a little dance
<cprofitt> so my whole attempt to lighten things up  with /me smiles caused issues...
<cprofitt> my lord
<cprofitt> anyway...
<cprofitt> with they quoted text doctormo how did that bother you?
<cprofitt> I have been trying to pick things out of logs and mail list content to see things we need to add to our wiki...
<doctormo> Actually it might just be with the directness of the language. if you say "/me smiles a jasmine smile of perfumed arabia" it's not really serious.
<cprofitt> so that people coming in 'late' can be up-to-date with where we are
<cprofitt> I missed a great deal with the mail list issues and missed meetings...
<doctormo> Aye, I can see a need for that.
<doctormo> We've certainly had to go over a lot today to cover up for that mistake.
<cprofitt> and can empathize with decisions and directions not being in the wiki... but 'hidden' in the logs and archives
<cprofitt> I really do not want to cause ripples, but want to smooth things out for the future...
<doctormo> Ok so, using "but" to start a sentance preseeds to emotive as negative, then we move on to "point out"
<doctormo> which means "something I can't see" or "something that I don't think exists"
<cprofitt> It was 'something I did not see'
<cprofitt> I still have not found it...
<doctormo> I'm sure it doesn't exist
<cprofitt> if it does not exist... I want us to vote on it and make sure it does exist.
<cprofitt> ... if that is necessary...
<cprofitt> I am not sure how formal we need to make this stuff to be honest
<doctormo> Well, your going through each of the meetings to make this list right? then if it was voted on, it'll be there.
<doctormo> But TBH, I'm not concerned with things being voted on if we know there is general concensus already. That's what makes the tone acusitory.
<doctormo> because I shouldn't have to point it out, or even find it in the logs, it just shouldn't be that important.
<cprofitt> doctormo, assuming all the meetings were on the page - yes
<cprofitt> I did not want to assume there were.
<cprofitt> in the last meeting someone, I do not recall nor is it important, said we had made it official in a meeting
<cprofitt> so I was looking for it
<doctormo> I think we have, or at least I have a vague memory of it.
<doctormo> But if it's important to vote on it, we'll vote on it next meeting.
<doctormo> Andif we need a list of agreements (which considering today I think we do) then we'll dot hat.
<cprofitt> I do not know if it is important to vote on... but it is important to document...
<cprofitt> document the process so people know what that process is.
<paultag> doctormo, is there a wiki?
<cprofitt> paultag, there is.
<paultag> cprofitt, perhaps look to that?
<doctormo> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<cprofitt> it is not there currently...
<paultag> cprofitt, sounds like a great thing to add
<paultag> :)
<cprofitt> that is one of the things we need to work on... and I was trying to get a fix on.
<doctormo> Aye, it's the first job of the new admin'er
<cprofitt> I agree paultag
<paultag> Righto
<cprofitt> but we need to find all the pieces...
<cprofitt> I think at times people have felt 'blind sided' by things... due to not knowing that a decision was made...
<cprofitt> that has led to some 'bent' feelings and frustrations and I think documenting things -- at least the process decisions would help avoid those things
<paultag> That's on me now cprofitt.
<doctormo> paultag: You can get the data together, but we'll have a propper vote on it next meeting (monday?) just to make sure there are no objections.
<cprofitt> what is on you paultag ?
<paultag> RIghto doctormo. I'll need to pick apart logs from TN, as well as review some old documents
<paultag> cprofitt, the lack of public documentation of internal practices
<doctormo> So all it is is probably a page such as http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Team would be filled with a list of board members, dates for re-election, next meeting time and then previous desisions with voting table and link to irc log?
<cprofitt> I must have missed that... sorry paultag
<cprofitt> kids were monsters today...
<paultag> cprofitt, as of about 4:00 PM :P
<cprofitt> I saw doctormo discussing the need for that...
<cprofitt> but not that you had taken it on
<paultag> doctormo, I was thinking a page "development" for the team best practices
<paultag> doctormo, What to use etc
<paultag> doctormo, objections, concerns or questions on that?
<paultag> you too cprofitt
<cprofitt> paultag, I have no objections to that...
<paultag> questions or concerns then ?
<doctormo> So http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Team/Development ?
<cprofitt> we need to get the process documented so contributors know how to proceed
<paultag> doctormo, yeah, I have it open now, but have not saved it with a basic layout yet
<doctormo> cprofitt: There are a couple of processes, organisation, development and publishing.
<doctormo> Each one needs describing.
<doctormo> But the orgnisation is fairly easy, go onto the Topics page for that section, and add and remove topics as required.
<paultag> doctormo, is it OK to split it up to those four then?
<doctormo> Split what up into what four?
<paultag> doctormo, the documentation into processes, organization, development and publishing
<doctormo> OK, but it's three. unless by processes you mean internal organisation?
<doctormo> my fault for stray comma.
<paultag> doctormo, that, or how we accept non-member contributions etc
<doctormo> there is no such thing as member-contributions.
<doctormo> members are only priviliaged by what they are organising, everythign else is open season.
<paultag> doctormo, i.e. a document you write would be approved by default, whereas something emailed to you might undergo a review. That kinda thing
<paultag> doctormo, or the actual process of review
<doctormo> Oh everything gets peer review, i don't care if your king, or even bodi, stuff gets reviewed. It's all about eyes.
 * doctormo hopes people get that I was joking about bodi :-P
<paultag> doctormo, perhaps document that process then?
<doctormo> paultag: I don't understand.
<paultag> doctormo, the process of peer-review. Just so that if we have a sub-par document, we can point to how we have a process for accepting new material instead of arbitrarily denying contributions
<doctormo> OK
<doctormo> That may want to go into the development -> publishing documentation.
<doctormo> i.e. at the start of publishing is says "After peer review [see development page], you publish yadda yadaa"
<doctormo> And in development at the bottom, it explains how merge requests work in launchpad.
<paultag> OK
<doctormo> thanks paultag, your a star
<paultag> np doctormo
<paultag> I'll BRB
<cprofitt> doctormo, just trying to be clear for me, we would peer review the 'source' or asciidoc part; right?
<doctormo> cprofitt: Yes, or at least that's the best idea if we want to merge it using bzr/lp
<cprofitt> ok...
<cprofitt> now I am scared to type /me nods
<cprofitt> for fear that has a meaning I am not aware of
<doctormo> It might mean tht your going to sleep! (it doesn't)
<cprofitt> true...
<cprofitt> night all
<pleia2> hm, Org seems to be a bit of a duplicate of Structure
<Saj0577__> hey did someone ping me?
<doctormo_> Hey BiosElement
<BiosElement> Ahh, hey doctormo
#ubuntu-learning 2010-10-25
<matti> Hey akgraner
#ubuntu-learning 2010-10-26
<pleia2> doctormo: can you renew my membership in launchpad.net/~owlers when you have a chance?
#ubuntu-learning 2010-10-27
<jledbetter> pleia2, Is there a session at UDS?
<pleia2> jledbetter: nope
<jledbetter> Ok. Didn't want to miss something :)
#ubuntu-learning 2010-10-28
<Goog_Josh> hello, does somebody knows how to change size of window's border in 10.10
#ubuntu-learning 2010-10-29
<_spacer_> hi room
<_spacer_> i'm looking for some help with vnc anytakers?
<pleia2> _spacer_: this channel is for the learning project which creates coursework for teaching ubuntu-related things, not much general support here
<_spacer_> ic
<_spacer_> thanks
#ubuntu-learning 2010-10-30
<Goog_Josh> when i trying to start kaffeine - display next message: "Loading of player part 'XinePart' failed. All Video Drivers failed to initialize!". does anyone know how to solve this problem?
<MarkDude> Is the audio too low to use this talk as a learning resource? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnTVvQoq5DE
<pleia2> well, we don't currently have a video aspect to learning stuff, just moodle, irc classroom and classes written out
<MarkDude> Really?
<pleia2> if someone wants to start one I don't see a problem with it :)
 * MarkDude has learned more than 50% of tech stuff using video or podcasts
<MarkDude> Good deal pleia2 .
<MarkDude> I am going to talk to the bosses and see if I can have them get a mic that will record more of the speaker and less of the ambient noise
<MarkDude> So would I put link to a videos page on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/CourseDevelopment ?
<pleia2> no, that's for the written learning materials, I think we'd have to discuss sections for video learning
<MarkDude> Fair enough.
<MarkDude> So I can put a link under my namespace on the wiki - or maybe just create a videos page?
<MarkDude> or just wait till the next meeting?
<pleia2> send a proposal to the mailing list for video training
<pleia2> sorry, am very busy at the moment :(
<MarkDude> Good idea. I will do that. Dont worry, its ok if you are busy :)
<MarkDude> Hopefully you get a chance to be not busy
<jledbetter> MarkDude, There's also screencasts. http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/
#ubuntu-learning 2010-10-31
<pleia2> MarkDude: re busy: yeah, it's because MJ's father is in town so we're busy doing the visiting thing all day... and I broke the ubuntu-us.org VPS as I was trying to do an upgrade because I didn't realize the upgrade instructions were non-standard for a linode (the least of which - you can't actually go LTS to LTS)
<pleia2> so this morning I was feverishly trying to fix the VPS and get out the door in time for lunch :)
<pleia2> VPS is limping now, need to reinstall tonight (yeah, it's really that bad)
<pleia2> but the upgrade means it'll be ready for the ubuntu california site :)
<MarkDude> Thats very cool
<pleia2> failing as a sysadmin because I didn't read the fine manual wasn't cool
 * pleia2 was not impressed with herself this morning
<pleia2> oh well, at least I got it to limping :)
<pleia2> although, it is tempting to install debian on it...
<pleia2> but I guess that would be wrong :)
<jledbetter> haha
#ubuntu-learning 2011-10-25
<sirsean1227> yo
<sirsean1227> yo
<sirsean1227> hello?
#ubuntu-learning 2011-10-26
<pleia2> pachy: can you ask questions in channel rather than PMing people?
<pachy> heeey
<pachy> ok
#ubuntu-learning 2016-10-28
<tax> hello
