#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-16
<danilos> gmb, hi, I remember you said you'd review my branch last week, but I see no review :) should I go for the OCR?
<gmb> danilos: Oops. I think I did review it, I just didn't post the review. Let me take a look now...
<danilos> gmb, sure
<gmb> danilos: Ah, yes. My only comment was that those XXXs about addChange()... is it worth filing a bug to remind us to do that, or should we just drop them?
<danilos> gmb, uhm, right, I don't know, what do you think? I'll perhaps add a task card on the kanban board and then discuss it with gary
<gmb> danilos: Ok. Might as well drop the XXXs for the sake of landing this. We can always look back to check where they should go if we decide to file a bug about it later.
<gmb> Anyway, belatedly, r=me.
<danilos> gmb, ok, agreed, thanks for the review
<gmb> np
<danilos> gmb, (no worries, since I wasn't really in shape to land it anyway)
<gmb> :)
<gmb> danilos: Glad to see you're better. Or at least well enough to have an IRC conversation.
<danilos> gmb, heh, I am very much better, thanks
<gary_poster> (bac is here today but not around for meeting)
<gary_poster> benji danilos gmb, hi.  I'll be looking at kanban board in a sec, and call will be in 4
<gary_poster> A friend writes on Skype: "Microsoft Skype 2.2 Professional Edition Plus"
<gary_poster> hee hee
<gmb> Heh.
<danilos> gary_poster, ack
<gary_poster> benji, I may have forgotten a schedule wrinkle for you, but call now
<benji> gary_poster: nope, I forgot the wrinkle that you have to run skype for it to work, maybe microsoft will fix that
<danilos> gary_poster, to register, https://forms.canonical.com/sprint/
<gary_poster> danilos, heh, thank you, I was wondering...and procrastinating! :-)
<benji> gmb: I noticed that https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/launchpad/bug-772609-again/+merge/60513 hasn't been merged yet and wanted to let you know in case it had slipped through the cracks
<gmb> benji: That's the one that bounced because devel was broken. I'm running it through ec2 again now. Thanks for spotting it, though.
<benji> cool
<gary_poster> hey danilos.  I proposed a PDR meeting time in an email I sent earlier today.  Could you review and lemme know if that works for you?
<danilos> gary_poster, sure, will do
<danilos> gary_poster, replied to the email, yes, tomorrow at 14:30 UTC works fine
<gary_poster> :-) thanks
<gmb> Hmm. When ~name16 and ~landscaped-developers are subscribed to *everything* there may be a chance - just a chance - that one has done something amusing when one wanted to do something useful.
<gary_poster> heh, why, or in what way?
<gmb> gary_poster: Still trying to work that out. Hurrah for pdb.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> ok
 * gmb -> stepping out for an appointment; back in a bit
 * danilos -> out
<bac> hi gary_poster
<gary_poster> hey bac
<bac> gary_poster: have time this afternoon for a quick skype call?
<gary_poster> sure, bac.  if it is < 20 min, I can do now; otherwise...maybe start around 2:30 or 3:00?  I need to be out 3:35-3:55 to get kids from school but then could continue if needed.
<bac> gary_poster: now would be good.  let me find my phone
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> Assuming we're using Skype, I'm logged in andhave my headphones on; gimme a call when you are ready.
<gary_poster> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
<benji> gary_poster: did you see Brian Murray's message to launchpad-users about https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/+me/+structural-subscriptions?  I seem to recall that the page in question isn't ready for prime time and in fact should be removed.  If that's true I'll reply to him.
<gary_poster> bac, old page, but orca in 2008 seemed to be doing pretty well with aria.  I suspect if we support aria we'll do ok
<gary_poster> old page was in reference to link I did not give
<bac> cool
<gary_poster> bac, any thoughts on what benji just said?
<gary_poster> do you know why he would have done that?
<gary_poster> because yes, benji, we do not link to that page and it is not ready for primetime and not under development
<gary_poster> (and no, I didn't see the email)
<bac> i have not read the email
<bac> in my session he brought that up and  i told him that page was deprecated.  i guess i didn't make myself clear.
<benji> gary_poster: https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-users/msg06288.html
 * bac looks for email
<benji> bac: https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-users/msg06288.html
<gary_poster> benji, bac,gotcha.  benji, yeah please reply.  that page introduces the idea of filters, which is something we discarded
<gary_poster> (from the UI)
<bac> i think brian really wants a single page to list all of his subscriptions and was hoping that page would be it
<gary_poster> It would be nice
<gary_poster> it was on our nice-to-have plans
<gary_poster> but not our must-have plans
<benji> ok, I'll reply
<benji> we should probably kill that page
<gary_poster> thank you
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-17
 * gmb lunches
<gary_poster> danilos, hey.  Can I take "UI: unmute does not show dialog, just unmutes"--that is, is the kanban board accurate?  If so, what branch should I use as a base--is "Provide BugMute table and use it for muting bug subscriptions" in db-devel or is the kanban accurate again, and I need to get a branch?
<gary_poster> Ah-ha
<gary_poster> looks like I need to branch https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/proper-bug-muting
<danilos> gary_poster, you could, but it'd be even better to branch off my nothing branch
<gary_poster> ...uh...wha?
<danilos> gary_poster, I've got one test to take care of there and it's going up for review
<gary_poster> oh, your nothing branch!
<gary_poster> heh, got it now
<gary_poster> lp:~danilo/launchpad/bug-772763-remove-nothing
<danilos> gary_poster, heh, yeah :)
<gary_poster> cool thanks
<danilos> gary_poster, I hit a bunch of test failures in the proper-bug-muting branch, fwiw, some of them related to person merging
<gary_poster> ah, yeah, that's a pain
<gary_poster> but resolved now, it looks like
<danilos> gary_poster, yeah, up in ec2 again (just in case)
<gary_poster> :-) cool
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, kanban now-ish, skype in 4
<gmb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/783948
<_mup_> Bug #783948: Entering a comment returns an error <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/783948 >
<gmb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bash-completion/+bug/752193
<_mup_> Bug #752193: Installation of the acroread package causes completion to treat directories like files with some commands <amd64> <apport-bug> <natty> <acroread (Ubuntu):Confirmed for brian-thomason> <bash-completion (Ubuntu):Won't Fix> <bash-completion (Debian):Won't Fix> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/752193 >
<gmb> gary_poster, benji: Am I right in thinking that a LocationError from TAL basically means "You're trying to access an attribute that doesn't exist"?
<benji> gmb: not normally; it's more often a problem finding out where an object is in the url space; e.g., it doesn't have a __parent__
<gary_poster> yeah
<gmb> Hmm.
<gmb> Here's the salient bit of the OOPS:
<gmb> LocationError: (<zope.browserpage.metaconfigure.SimpleViewClass from /srv/launchpad.net/production/launchpad-rev-13053/lib/lp/bugs/browser/../templates/bug-portlet-subscribers.pt object at 0xfe1d610>, 'current_user_mute_class')
<gmb> I'm trying to figure out what that actually means in this case.
<gary_poster> is there a traceback as well, or is that eaten somehow?
<gmb> gary_poster: It's all here: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1963BC361
<gary_poster> gmb, your initial description was correct
<gmb> Ah.
<gmb> Now that's very odd.
<gary_poster> as I expect you saw,
<gary_poster>         attr = getattr(subject, name, _marker)
<gary_poster>         if attr is not _marker:
<gary_poster>             return attr
<gary_poster>         if hasattr(subject, '__getitem__'):
<gary_poster>             try:
<gary_poster>                 return subject[name]
<gary_poster>             except (KeyError, TypeError):
<gary_poster>                 pass
<gary_poster>         raise LocationError(subject, name)
<gmb> Saw, but didn't pay enough attention to :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gmb> Hmm.
<gary_poster> this may be one of those transitive attribute errors...sometimes they explain surprises like this
<gary_poster> if current_user_mute_class is an @property
 * gary_poster looks forward to having Python use mwh's wrapped exceptions, from whatever version of Python that is in
<gmb> gary_poster: That wouldn't explain why the page still OOPSes for Gavin and I but not wgrant, though.
<gary_poster> gmb, ForbiddenAttribute and Unauthorized both subsclass AttributeError, IIRC.  Maybe pertinent?
<gmb> Ah, true.
<gmb> Hmm.
 * gmb pokes
<gary_poster> They would be eaten by the code above
<gmb> Yes.
<gary_poster> and converted into LocationError
<gmb> Quite so.
<gmb> So, let's see if I can break it.
<gmb> Muhahaha, etc.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> danilos, I'm ready anytime for our call.  This is 11 minutes early, so no rush. ;-)  Give me a Skype call when you are ready.
<danilos> gary_poster, sure thing, I am ready myself
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> gary_poster: I haven't been able to break anything and I've now been sucked into an OCR / helping out a contributor conversation. I think it might be a good time to roll back my last revision since that seems (to me) like a likely culprit.
<gary_poster> gmb, ok, please do
<gmb> On it now.
<gmb> gary_poster: I can confirm that the rollback fixed the problem.
<gmb> Now, that doesn't mean that it was actually my revision that caused the problem (we rolled back from 13050 to 13045 for logistical reasons) but it seems likely.
<gary_poster> gmb, just saw this, but mostly good. :-)
<gmb> Yeah.
<gmb> Trouble is reproducing it.
<danilos> gmb, thanks for the review
 * danilos -> off
<gmb> np
<bac> hi gary_poster, benji: on this page https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+subscriptions there is a help icon next to the "Stop my emails" link.  but we go to great pains to make it appear and disappear on hover.  why?
<bac> i think that link only appears for team subscriptions and perhaps ones for teams you don't administer
<benji> bac, I don't remember specifically why I did it that way; I think it was to reduce confusion because of the number of other icons visible
<gary_poster> bac: why: the number of icons were becoming problematic.  The hover was a problematic solution that benji prototyped up and that we felt was an improvement.  [Link should appear for team subscriptions, unless team has a contact address (that last part is in progress).]
<bac> ok.  fwiw it seemed like a browser bug when i first encountered it.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> making it appear gradually would reduce that impression, but not remove the underlying discoverability problem.
<bac> gary_poster: bug 778323
<_mup_> Bug #778323: On the subscription page, the help popup button opens up a 404 page. <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/778323 >
<bac> gary_poster: so the problem is the help file only exists for bugs.lp.net
<gary_poster> bac, good one.  Sorry, I forget to do the bug review for you :-(
<gary_poster> bac, is that one that we do a symlink for?
<bac> gary_poster: but i think people are hacking urls to go to http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+subscriptions
<bac> gary_poster: yes, i can solve it by putting a symlink in registry/help...but if they use code.lp.net or answer.lp.net it'll break.  :(
<bac> so, perhaps the right thing to do is to force a redirect to the bugs rootsite?
<gary_poster> oh!
<gary_poster> interesting
<bac> or change the way +help works
<bac> admittedly, coming via one of the other rootsites is pretty rare, i'd guess
<gary_poster> bac, I'm ok with whichever is easier.  The redirect would be what I would tackle, probably.
<bac> yeah, so how would you do that?
<bac> the zcml seems to only configure that page for the bugs rootsite, so i'm a bit confused why the others work
<gary_poster> Well, I would have expected to simply di a redirect during the initialize stage
<gary_poster> do
<gary_poster> I'm not sure about the zcml.  I can stare at it with you, if you like; it's LP zcml machinery, I think, not ye olde Zope stuff
<bac> that's ok.  i'll bug you if i get stumped
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> bac, ready for call whenever you are
<gary_poster> gimme a call when you want
<bac> gary_poster: ok.  just a sec.
<gary_poster> np
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-18
<gary_poster> bac benji (are you really here?) danilos gmb: kanban now-ish, skype almost now-ish
<danilos> quack-quack
<gmb>  Baa.
<gmb> gary_poster had a farm, ee
<gmb> 
<gmb> i ee i o.
<gary_poster> lol
<danilos> :)
<gary_poster> https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BugLinking
<gary_poster> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/95419
<_mup_> Bug #95419: Record dependencies between bugs <lp-bugs> <oem-services> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/95419 >
<danilos> gmb, gary_poster: I assume bug 674815 is "fix released" (Rob added it to our bug "view")?
<_mup_> Bug #674815: When a bug is marked as duplicate, you are invited to subscribe to the master bug <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/674815 >
<gary_poster> benji, please make sure you keep me/us apprised as to what you are working on so we can take over if the germs win today's battle
<benji> gary_poster: sure; at the moment I'm fixing a bug I found in my 777786 branch, but once that's in the rube goldberg machine of landing I'll start another one.
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> if there's one in particular you like, let me know
<gary_poster> bug 784575 is the new one
<_mup_> Bug #784575: Change bug notification email to point to new bug +subscriptions page to manage subscriptions <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/784575 >
<gary_poster> benji, you could prepare a branch for that, even though we could land that; or just pick one.  bug 777789 and bug 781987 are the other good candidates that I see.
<_mup_> Bug #777789: "Other subscriptions" description of direct team subscription makes no sense <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/777789 >
<_mup_> Bug #781987: when a bug has no subscribers the list is shown as 'None' <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/781987 >
<benji> sounds good
<gary_poster> "even though we could land that" -> "even though we would land that at a later date"
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, I've mentioned this to some of you in our pdr calls, but I was not consistent about it.  I thought of another goal that could be shared across the squad: we deliver value consistently within two week increments.  We will be evaluated by this collectively (as a squad), so it might be reasonable to call it out in our individual goals as well.  I won't require it, but it's a good idea, I think.
<benji> I like it.
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> So do I.
<gary_poster> trÃ¨s bien
<gary_poster> benji, extra points for a branch that removes the feature flags at the same time :-P
<benji> will I get a 1up too?  I could use an extra life right about now.
<gary_poster> heh, not in my power to grant :-)
<gary_poster> extra points: ...I think....  Eagerly getting rid of the feature flags does make me a bit nervous, but AIUI that's what we are asked to do
<benji> well, in this case we pretty much have to; the email sending can't be feature flagged (as far as I know) so everyone's emails will be sending them to a place that they might not be able to see unless we open up the feature flag to everyone, which is equivelent to just removing them
<benji> ("them" == "feature flags", not the people)
<gary_poster> yeah makes sense
<gmb> Wouldn't it be safer to just open the feature flags up to everyone, land the branch that adds the link to the emails and then wait a week or so to remove the flags from the code?
<gmb> I'm thinking about the cost of rolling back if we need to
<gmb> (Though I guess with bzr it's pretty much moot)
<gmb> (Aside from LOSA time)
<gmb> benji, gary_poster ^^
<gmb> (Which I say with no context or knowledge of anything you may have said about this recently)
<gary_poster> gmb, I think this is the logic:
<gary_poster> if we send emails with links to the page, then the feature flag better be open to everyone or gone
<gary_poster> links are not feature flagged
<gary_poster> the email links I mean
<gary_poster> So here's a bad story
<gary_poster> followed by a good story
<gary_poster> The Bad Story
<gary_poster> 1) we open up feature flags for everyone
<gary_poster> 2) we land a branch that adds a link to the email
<gary_poster> 3) oh noes!  Bad Things Happen!
<gary_poster> 4) we turn off the feature flag for everyone (but don't revert the branch)
<gary_poster> Result: emails are being sent out to a page that doesn't work
<gary_poster> that is, that is feature flagged
<gary_poster> The Slightly Better Story (known here as The Good Story, In Comparison)
<gary_poster> 1) we open up feature flags for everyone
<gary_poster> 2) we land a branch that adds a link to the email
<gary_poster> 3) oh noes, etc.
<gary_poster> (oh, sorry, #2 was supposed to also remove feature flags)
<gary_poster> 4) We revert branch for #2
<gary_poster> Result: emails are sent with the old, working link
<gary_poster> Admittedly, it is somewhat slower
<gary_poster> but the end result is better
<gary_poster> We can wait a bit after step 1 (in either story) to see if we can prevent #3 from happening, of course
<gary_poster> The othe advantage of The Slightly Better Story is that, if #3 never happens, we have done what we are supposed to do (remove the feature flags)
<gary_poster> So anyway, I suppose one could argue either way, but I'm happy with going with the second approach
<gmb> gary_poster: Okay. I'm officially Â±0 as far as one way of doing it over the other. Like I said, bzr reduces the cost, except for LOSA time.
<gary_poster> gmb, fair enough, and agreed
 * gary_poster going for a lunch/walk, since my coding project is making me grumpy :-P
<gmb> :)
<bac> hi gary_poster
<bac> gary_poster:  you post-grumpy?
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> mostly but on call
<bac> np
<gary_poster> bac, wassup?
<bac> gary_poster: not much.  was just going to run a text change by you before i submitted my branch.  too late now.  :)
<bac> idle chit chat mainly
<gary_poster> heh, ok :-)
<bac>  s/None/No subscribers./
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-19
 * gary_poster only kinda here
<gmb> gary_poster: How only kindy
<gmb> *a
<gmb> ?
<gmb> gary_poster: Enough to agree with me if I tell you something as though it were fact?
<gary_poster> oh, most definitely!
<gary_poster> (I'm finishing up giving the boys some breakfast)
<gmb> gary_poster: Okay, so bug 778847. I cannot reproduce it in a test (thought I could; was wrong) and looking at the code I don't know how the error ever happened in the first place.
<_mup_> Bug #778847: Muting a bug subscription for a team with a contact address crashes getRecipientFilterData <oops> <regression> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/778847 >
<gary_poster> but that's a big uh-oh, right?
<gmb> Yeah.
<gary_poster> because it caused a critical halt
<gary_poster> OK, what am I agreeing to? :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: Actually, I don't think you need to worry: I'm going to break staging.
<gmb> (If I can)
<gary_poster> oh ok, excellent
<gmb> My working hypothesis is that I need a production-ish dataset to be able to model this properly.
<gary_poster> I Agree!
<gmb> Hurrah!
<gmb> :)
 * gary_poster is now more here
<gary_poster> danilos, again, I'm sorry.  Anything we need to talk about?
<gary_poster> benji, are you still avoiding full out plague?
<benji> it's more like denial
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> sorry
<benji> all things considered, I was pretty productive yesterday, so I'm going to try again today
<gary_poster> understood
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> but take care of yourself
<gary_poster> bac, I just approved your may expenses from may 5.  I'm sorry I didn't get it sooner.
<bac> gary_poster: the ec2 one?  i just filed it this week...no problem.
<gary_poster> also the hungary one
<bac> i put 5-may b/c that was the date of the receipt
<bac> thanks!
<gary_poster> oic
<gary_poster> cool, np
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, kanban now-ish, call in about 5
<gary_poster> benji, is your card in a feature lane because of an oversight? I'd expect to see it as an "improvement" card in the "Quick Jobs" lane.  May I make that change?
<benji> sure; I thought that since it was part of the feature it would go there
<gary_poster> cool, I'll clarify intent on call
<danilos> gary_poster, benji: is it also not already there in the tasks in the quick jobs (one of the blue cards)?
<gmb> Aaaaaaah
<gary_poster> bac, Skype?
<bac> ready
<gary_poster> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71132520/what.png
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, do you mind having the call tomorrow after our daily/weekly call since I need to leave at about that time today?
<gary_poster> gmb, call ok?
<gary_poster> danilos, that's fine
<danilos> gary_poster, cool, thanks
<gmb> gary_poster: Sure.
<gary_poster> np danilos.  Could you move it on calendar
<gary_poster> ?
<gary_poster> ok gmb
<danilos> gary_poster, sure
<gary_poster> thanks
<gmb> YES! I AM THE GOD OF ALL CREATION, BRING ME THE FINEST MUFFINS IN ALL THE LAND!
<gmb> *ahem*
<gmb> The regression test proves there's a problem.
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, the in-progress server-side branch with a few tests: lp:~danilo/launchpad/bug-772763-remove-unmute-dialog-part1 (I lost some time fighting with the store.find(BugMute.person, BugMute.bug == bug) which doesn't work since person is a reference, and you need to join to Person table yourself :)
<danilos> gary_poster, got to run out now, but other than the newly added tests and the fix for the above, not much is in that branch
<gary_poster> cool danilos
<gary_poster> so how close is that to being landable, do you think?
<gary_poster> if you are still here, danilos :-)
<gary_poster> gmb, I only now saw the declaration of muffin emergency.  Yay! :-)
<gmb> Just putting the finishing touches on the fix now.
<gmb> gary_poster: It turns out that you have to be very, very careful about how you craft test calls to BugNotificationSet.getRecipientFilterData().
<gmb> (In order to make it break, that is).
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> well, cool, in any case,
<benji> gary_poster: is my memory correct in that we don't want to support the previous +subscribe page at all?
<gary_poster> benji, on call, not sure
<gary_poster> will ping when off
<benji> k
<bac> hi benji, you have any ideas on how to properly format the 'other subscription' issue as seen at https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1234/+subscriptions ?
<_mup_> Bug #1234: Gina is an unmaintainable mess of command line options, environment variables and shell scripts <lp-foundations> <Launchpad itself:Fix Released by debonzi> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 >
<bac> merely adding padding to the left element doesn't do much.  the floated line is so long that it causes the other to go underneath on a narrow window
<benji> the problem where the text on the left runs into the text on the right?
<benji> gotcha
<benji> the ideal would be the behavior of two table cells, but being that using tables for layour is verboten we can probably come up with something else
<benji> s/layour/layout/
<benji> i.e., both phrases should be of the same width, or perhaps the actions on the right should be narrower, say 2/3 width on the left and 1/3 on the right
<benji> I'm not good enough with CSS to be able to prescribe a solution without experimenting, but I'd play with asserting relative widths for the divs.
<benji> There's also the fall back of assigning table-like behavior via particular classes.  I'm sure that'll work, but it might be a little heavy-handed.
<bac> yeah, your thoughts about tables are what i've already gone through and of course rejected
<benji> Well, display:table, display:table-row, and display:table-cell are always options.
<benji> then we could put width: 60% on the left div and width: 40% on the right
<gary_poster> oh bah
<gary_poster> benji, hey.  off call.  I had to make sure I remembered what +subscribe did.  At this instant in time, +subscribe still is needed.
<gary_poster> I *think* that we will be able to discard it once we work on bug 772754 and its associated design bits, but even then it is conceivable that we will want it around for non-JS browsers, since it already existed that way (we have permission to develop new functionality with JS only, but I am not sure we have permission to rip out old non-JS functionality)
<_mup_> Bug #772754: After better-bug-notification changes, list of bug subscribers is confusing <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/772754 >
<gary_poster> bac, I assume you tried putting the padding on the left side of the right box?
 * gary_poster going to go have lunch :-)
<bac> gary_poster: skype?
<gary_poster> bac, fwiw I shared your UDS feedback with flacoste.  He agrees with you about sending more people to UDS, though he thinks 4 is a good number, and better than the 10-12 we were sending before.  But anyway, he agrees that just sending himself and jml would be a shame.
<bac> gary_poster: yeah, 10 would be nuts
<bac> did we really do that before?
<gary_poster> <shrug> I guess so?
<gary_poster> benji, do you want to talk today, or take it easy?
<gary_poster> not that our calls are terribly arduous, afaik :-P
<benji> gary_poster: talking's good, give me a sec and I'llcall you
<gary_poster> ok cool
<benji> you mean I don't have to stand on my head while we talk?!  I wish I knew earlier.
<gary_poster> heh
<benji> gary_poster: I've had this tab open for a week, intending to suggest you might like this guy's blog post:http://blog.ssokolow.com/archives/2011/05/07/a-python-programmers-first-impression-of-coffeescript/
<gary_poster> benji, huh, sounds cool.  I've barely heard of coffeescript before
<gary_poster> thank you :-)
<benji> it's gaining quite a bit of recognition; I'm getting to the point that I kind of like javascript -- somewhat like one likes programming in bare assembler on a computer with 128K of RAM
<gary_poster> heh, yeah, I know what you mean
<gary_poster> Gong to look at http://pragprog.com/magazines/2011-05/a-coffeescript-intervention too
<gary_poster> but meanwhile must run
<gary_poster> baby and other things exploding in background :-)
<gary_poster> bye
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-20
<danilos> mmm, food :)
 * danilos -> lunch
<gary_poster> danilos, sounds like you are on a very short lunch break.  I started replying to your emails, but I think a call will be faster
<danilos> gary_poster, sure thing
<danilos> gary_poster, done now, so if you want a really short call :)
<gary_poster> bac danilos gmb, kanban now-ish, call in 4, brief retrospective after that, call with danilo about branches after that, weekly call will danilo sometime after that :-)
<danilos> heh
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> danilos, thanks but naah, should look at kanban
<gmb> ok
<danilos> gary_poster, thanks for adding the card, I was going to do that as well
<gary_poster> cool np
<gary_poster> bac, can you hear us?  we can't hearyou
<bac> i'm on, unmuted and talking
<bac> :(
<bac> i can hear
<danilos> gary_poster, ok, so the changes in personIsAlsoNotifiedSubscriber are actually from gmb's branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/launchpad/bug-772609/+merge/60176 (I guess revert messed us up)
<danilos> gmb, heya, here's the tests that've done for your branch :) https://pastebin.canonical.com/47665/
<gmb> danilos: Thanks. I like this setup where other people do work for me. :)
<danilos> gmb, if you see them as useful, you know what to do (and I am sure you know even better what to do if you don't like them :)
<danilos> gmb, heh, you have a tyrant personality, that's what it is :)
<gmb> :)
<danilos> gmb, fwiw, I am not sure about test_subscribers_from_dupes_includes_structural_subscribers for your branch though (actually, I believe it doesn't belong there)
<gmb> danilos: Okay. Without looking at the test itself just yet, I agree (based purely on what I hope is a good test title :))
<danilos> gmb, actually...
<danilos> gmb, how about you try it out and see if it works :)
<gmb> Heh.
<gmb> Okay.
<gmb> If I really have to.
<gary_poster> danilos, I'm ready for our call whenever you are
<danilos> gmb, I am getting thoroughly confused with these branches, so I find it best and easiest to check with a known-good slate :)
<danilos> gary_poster, ready
<gmb> danilos: Well, it passes :)
<gary_poster> ship it!
<gmb> Haha
<danilos> gmb, then it's for you :)
<gmb> Righto.
<danilos> gary_poster, lp:~danilo/launchpad/bug-772763-edit-subscription
<gmb> danilos, gary_poster: jml's lightning talk is here, by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cxs9OHIBcs#t=0h17m34s The cheers will please you immensely, I have no doubt.
<gary_poster> cool, I look forward to it :-)
<gary_poster> video was cool
<gary_poster> danilos, ok, I've stared at the branch enough to have questions :-P .  Lemme know when you have a minute for them
<gary_poster> Skype would probably be fastest if that is ok with you
<danilos> gary_poster, ready now
<danilos> except that skype is not running :)
<gary_poster> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610640/
<bac> i mistyped and discovered http://launchpad.de
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> I wonder what, if anything, will happen with Apple's "Launchpad" name
<gary_poster> bac, when you have a moment, https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/bug-772763-edit-subscription/+merge/61782 could use a review.  danilos <- that's your branch.  I'm going to go for a walk, then I'll start into bug 772754
<_mup_> Bug #772754: After better-bug-notification changes, list of bug subscribers is confusing <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by gary> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/772754 >
<danilos> gary_poster, cool
<danilos> gary_poster, I'll be leaving in 10, so I'll leave a message here if I don't get to the phase of ec2 landing stuff (all in review)
<gary_poster> danilos, sounds good.  ttyl
<danilos> gary_poster, part1 (server-side stuff) in ec2 land, JS still in review (https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-772763-remove-unmute-dialog/+merge/61780)
<bac> hi gary_poster, danilos
<bac> i'm exercising the unmute branch and when i unmute, the person's name is added to the subscribers list but 'No subscribers' is not removed
<bac> gary_poster, danilos: i like the way you two are submitting each other's work.  is that collaboration or just an attempt to confuse me?  :)
<gary_poster> bac, it's mostly about confusing you, of course
<gary_poster> which unmute branch, bac?  They are all unmute
<gary_poster> maybe the JS one?  I don't remember dealing with that issue
<bac> gary_poster: i was referring to the one danilo submitted
<gary_poster> bac, ok cool, that's the JS one.  Lemme look.
<bac> namely https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-772763-remove-unmute-dialog/+merge/61780
<gary_poster> right
<gary_poster> bac, I agree.  It may have to be another branch though :-/
<gary_poster> since I can't merge into danilo's
<bac> ah, right.  so you want to land it as is and then tackle a fix?
<bac> or spin up a new branch and new MP?
<gary_poster> bac, actually, how about this--yeah the second one.  I'll make a branch dependent on this one, so you (or whomever) only have to look at the fix, and you can approve danilo's branch conditionally on the fix branch being the one that actually lands, maybe?
<gary_poster> So IOW, I don't land danilo's branch
<gary_poster> but we use the review as an incremental stepping stone to the one that I do land
<bac> gary_poster: a-ok
<gary_poster> cool thanks
<gary_poster> bac: https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/bug-772763-remove-unmute-dialog/+merge/61806 has the very small additional change needed.
<bac> ok
<bac> gary_poster: i'm on https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/bug-772763-edit-subscription/+merge/61782 atm
<gary_poster> cool, thanks bac
<bac> gary_poster: this looks funny.  must it be written like this?
<bac> if not self_subscribed and not(is_really_muted):
<gary_poster> heh, dunno, lemme look
<gary_poster> bac, I assume you would prefer "if not self_subscribed and not is_really_muted:" ?
<bac> yeah, having the not() look like a fcn call hurts my head
<gary_poster> agreed, happy to change it bac
<bac> okey doke.  nothing else looks awry
<gary_poster> cool, thank you
<bac> a passive aggressive path to r=bac
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> bac, I'd like a pre-imp call about https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71552495/all-in-one.png--in particular, how we use links objects in portlets and...if they can do what I want them to, and if they should be challenged as the "proper way" to do things.  Are you completely swamped, or could you carve out 15 minutes soon?  I'd be happy to time-box it.
<gary_poster> I think you would be a good choice because you have experience with these portlet things, and you might have background from Curtis.
<bac> gary_poster: give me a bit.  say at :30?
<gary_poster> bac, sounds good, thanks
<bac> gary_poster: i don't understand the fix to https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/bug-772763-remove-unmute-dialog/+merge/61806
<bac> i've verified it works
<bac> i just don't get it
<gary_poster> bac, we already had a function to add a name to the list, and had logic to remove the "no subscribers" node.  However, for some reason the function felt that this was unnecssary when you were subscribing the current user.   I have no idea why.  I would suspect that, prior to my change, "no subscribers" would have been left around when you subscribed yourself, in addition to unmuting yourself.  I did not verify this
<bac> so the anim run just makes it happen?
<gary_poster> My change simply says "we are adding a user, so in *all* cases, let's make sure that 'no subscribers' is gone"
<gary_poster> oh, no
<gary_poster> The anim is just an extra bit of polish
<gary_poster> We don't have to have it
<bac> oh, i see, you moved it out of the conditional
<bac> i missed that part
<gary_poster> yeah
 * bac feels better
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> sorry for not making the change clearer
<gary_poster> (The anim just adds the green flash on the link)
<bac> gary_poster skype?
<gary_poster> yeah thanks
<bac> gary_poster: did you see francis marked the accessibility bug critical?
<gary_poster> bac, yeah, and he told me he would.  We can address it as part of our normal bug rotation duties
<bac> gary_poster: ok
<gary_poster> bye.  have a great weekend
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-14
<gary_poster> bac frankban? gmb hi, call in 2
<frankban> ok
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> lunch
<gary_poster> biab
<frankban> gary_poster: I am going to recover the time wasted with kafka today, my EOD will be 7pm UTC
<bac> hey gary_poster
<gary_poster> hey bac
 * gary_poster somehow missed frankban's ping :-/
<bac> gary_poster: i've not been able to reproduce bug 998040.  i discovered some unrelated precise/py2.7 bugs but in lucid i cannot get this test to fail. i've added a comment to the bug and moved it back.
<_mup_> Bug #998040: lp.codehosting.tests.test_bzrutils.TestGetBranchStackedOnURL.testGetBranchStackedOnUrlNotStacked(RemoteBranchFormat-v2) fails rarely/intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/998040 >
<gary_poster> looking
<bac> doesn't really say more than what i just wrote
<gary_poster> bac, that's fine.  If you wanted to go "further" (for some definition) with it, I would suggest two more steps.  (1) Ask Robert for an opinion, since it seems like it might be squarely within bzr's realm, and he might be able to diagnose it with eyeball.  (2) If that goes nowhere, mark it incomplete.  In fact, I'm happy to do those if you don't want to.  Meanwhile, what you've done so far looks good.
<bac> gary_poster: ok.  i've asked robert.  he seems a bit queued up right now
<gary_poster> bac, yes :-) cool
<gary_poster> bac, so maybe our bug should be markewd a dupe of the bzr one?  If so, please put a card for the bzr bug in tracking
<bac> gary_poster: yes, it looks that way.
<gary_poster> cool bac, fire away thanks
<bac> gary_poster: first i want to track down the MP lifeless mentioned.  there isn't one linked from the bug he mentioned
<gary_poster> ah ok
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-15
<frankban> welcome back gmb
<gmb> Hi frankban, thanks :)
 * gmb is wading through emails. Hurrah.
<frankban> :-)
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb, hiya.  call asap.  I'm in goldenhorde now
 * bac to the horde
<gary_poster> heh
 * gmb -> lunch
<gmb> frankban, Feel free to ping me with the link to that merge proposal you need reviewing; I'll take care of it when I return.
<frankban> thanks gmb: https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/python-shelltoolbox/called-process-error-fixes/+merge/105786
<bac> gary_poster: i just talked to martin packman about bzr and bug 998040.  he said he and jelmer were on maintenance and would be happy to sort out the upgrade of launchpad's use of bzr
<_mup_> Bug #998040: lp.codehosting.tests.test_bzrutils.TestGetBranchStackedOnURL.testGetBranchStackedOnUrlNotStacked(RemoteBranchFormat-v2) fails rarely/intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/998040 >
<bac> gary_poster: i am going to move that card to tracking
<gary_poster> bac, excellent!
<gary_poster> frankban, holiday Friday approved
<frankban> gary_poster: thanks
<bac> benji: there is space in the active lane now.  do you want to take it for your bug or are you slack timing?
<benji> bac: I'm into the slack time task right now, but that's kind of the point of slack time tasks, to be able to stop them when a slot opens up.
<gary_poster> uh oh, slack time fight!
<gary_poster> fight!
<gary_poster> fight!
<gary_poster> fight!
<bac> benji: yeah, but that'll just force me into slack time.  which i don't mind but interrupting you if you're being slackwise productive may not make sense
<benji> bac: good point, I'd say the globally optimum thing would be for you to take the newly-open WIP slot
<benji> gary_poster: you so crazy
<gary_poster> :-)
<benji> gary_poster: or maybe I'm crazy, if a couple of things check out about this house I'm going to offer them $14,500 for it (and no, there are no missing digits in that number)
<bac> er?
<gary_poster> heh, wow benji.  I'm brimming with curiosity as to how that would work out practically, while you fix up the house and so on, but I'll wait till a higher bandwidth medium is available :-)
<benji> :)
<bac> ohh, i wanto to know too
<gary_poster> heh
<bac> googlehangout/benjiflipsahouse
<gary_poster> lol
<benji> LOL
<benji> I'm going to create a project for this so I need a name.  What do people think of "termbeamer"?
<benji> gmb: does the use of "beamer" for "projector" help or hinder that name? ^^^
<benji> (I was thinking of the Star Trek idea of "beaming".)
<gmb> benji, To me a Beamer is a BMW.
<benji> heh
<benji> so "termbeamer" would be leasing a BMW
<gmb> Hah, possibly.
<benji> gmb (or anyone): do you have other suggestions for a name for this terminal sharing thing?
<benji> I like termbeamer because it's a term that doesn't have many google results and the command name can be "tb" which I like in a morose sort of way.
<gmb> benji, I think termbeamer / tb works just fine.
<benji> cool
<gary_poster> benji, not saying I like these any better, just brainstorming:
<gary_poster> terminal window?
<gary_poster> terminal mirror
<gary_poster> termwin termir etc. ...
<gary_poster> terminal video, terminal vision...
<gary_poster> heh, terminal vision sounds ominous
<benji> heh
<benji> yeah, I found several semi-ominous "terminal *" combinations
<benji> If "terminal velocity" weren't such a common phrase, it would be a cool one
<gary_poster> terminal viewer, terminal broadcast (can it broadcast(?
<gary_poster> It might be cool because it is a common phrase
<gary_poster> easier to remember
<benji> right now it is one-to-one, but I do like the idea of terminal to web broadcasting
<benji> it would be easier to remember, but hard to find in a mass of google results
<gary_poster> mm, true
<gary_poster> ghost terminal...
<benji> that has a certain appeal
<benji> it might be confused with a terminal emulator (like Terminator, which has the best name ever)
<gary_poster> it's a direction as well--other names are probably lurking around that corner
<benji> astral(terminal)projection
<gary_poster> heh
<benji> termastral
<benji> no one will get that reference
<gary_poster> one of the things that Star Trek "beam" connotes to me that is not currently true about the app is that it sould imply that the thing being "beamed" to me is the full thing
<gary_poster> (also, as you noted, the word is a bit overloaded)
<benji> true; I think that remote control can be added easily enough, so that name might become more true to life over time
<gary_poster> ghost terminal...when the other end can actually control it, it evanesces... :-)
<gary_poster> oh, wrong direction
<gary_poster> anyway, benji, that's 10 minutes of brainstorming.  If you still like tb, go for it :-)
<benji> yeah, I'm not in love with tb, but I doubt I'll be able to improve on it quickly and I need a name so I think "termbeamer" it is
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> gary_poster: do you have any log files for the rabbitmq timeout problem?
<bac> there are two places where a timeout exception is raised and it'd be interesting to know which one was hit
<gary_poster> bac, if it is not in the bug report, probably not.  The only other place it might be, for older bugs, would be the result log.  That said, since we run everything in ephemerals, the logs are almost always gone.
<gary_poster> The only thing we get are the test results
<bac> gary_poster: i don't see a bug report, just a card
<gary_poster> oh...looking
<gary_poster> bac, it shows bug 987444 on the kanban board for me; are we looking at different ones?
<_mup_> Bug #987444: RabbitMQLayer intermittently (and very rarely) does not start in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/987444 >
<bac> huh, so it does
<bac> nm
<benji> gmb: can I put your hazy state to good use by having you see if my instructions for setting up termbeamer pass the post-trans-Atlantic-flight test?
<bac> gary_poster: reviewing the rabbitfixture code i see a bug in the startup code that has been subsequently fixed.  i think if we release the current version and bump LP to use it we should be good
<gary_poster> bac, you are the bearer of good tidings.
<gmb> benji, Sure
<benji> gmb: bzr branch lp:termbeamer and look at the README.txt
<gmb> Okay, looking now.
<gmb> Argh, libreoffice updates.
 * gmb does something else whilst they run.
<gmb> benji, Seems clear enough to me.
<gmb> All steps work and the tests pass
<benji> gmb: want to try to actually run a client and/or server?
<gmb> benji, Yes, I was just about to suggest that. I'll run the server and invite your gmail account...
<benji> gmb: cool
<benji> I'm running the client now.
<gmb> Arse, hang on. Damn 2-factor auth...
<benji> yeah, I made an application specific password for google talk.  I guess I should mention that in the README
<gmb> benji, Server is up and running; do you see it?
<benji> gmb: nope :(
<gmb> Um.
<benji> gmb: are you using "benji.york@gmail.com" as my user name?
<gmb> Yes.
<gmb> benji, How about you run the server; I'll see if I can connect.
<benji> k
<gmb> benji, I see a cursor moving...
<gmb> Ah.
<gmb> Hi Benji :)
<benji> :)
<gmb> So, it definitely passes the jetlag test.
<gmb> Yay, yellow crosshair.
<benji> gmb: do you see the blinking crosshair?
<gmb> Yup
<benji> cool
<benji> want to try running the server again?
<gmb> Sure.
<benji> gmb: I see it
<gmb> Wahey.
<benji> well, I take that back, I see the cursor moving
<benji> list some directories or run an editor or something
<gmb> benji, I'm seeing lots of errors of this sort "Traceback (most recent call last):
<gmb>   File "termbeamer/tb.py", line 236, in changed
<gmb>     get_attributes=True)
<gmb> TypeError: Required argument 'callback' (pos 1) not found"
<gmb> benji, I just ls'd the termbeamer root.
<gmb> But
<benji> that would explain it, let me look at that real quick
<gmb> I did resize the window, as it appeared oddly small.
<benji> gmb: yeah, I need to make the initial size bigger, resizing it should be fine
<benji> gmb: it seems like the version of python-vte you have isn't right; the one from my PPA shouldn't complaint about that
<gmb> Hum. apt might have lied to me when it said it was up-to-date.
<gmb> I'll try updating again.
<benji> k
<gmb> benji, Trying again.
<gmb> (apt-get insisted it was up-to-date; synaptic thought otherwise)
<benji> gmb: I see things!
<gmb> benji, Crosshair?
<benji> Hurrah indeed.
<benji> gmb: control-click
<gmb> benji, I am. But it's possible that that's doing something else given that this is a vm on a mac.
<benji> gmb: yeah, I don't see it
<gmb> Hrm.
<gmb> I see no errors or anything, but I'm betting that it's the environment that's the problem.
<benji> gmb: if you want you can edit the code to remove the control bit and just click
<benji> search for "CONTROL" and you'll see the right bit of code
<gmb> benji, Okay, gimme a sec...
<benji> sure
<gmb> benji, See it now?
<benji> gmb: yep!
<gmb> Yay.
<gmb> benji, So, I think simple clicking is an irritant for the clicker - highlights stuff unnecessarily. But otherwise, awesome work!
<gmb> benji, I'll try to find out what's actually getting sent.
<benji> I wonder if control-click will be an issue for people.  I didn't want just click because people often double-click on terminals to select a single word and shift-click is for highlighting a run of words
<gmb> Yeah.
<gmb> I'll poke about a bit if I get chance after I finish reviewing.
<benji> great
<gmb> benji, Oh, wait, I've just realised.
<gmb> On Mac, CTRL+Click is a right click (button = 2)
<gmb> So that's what'll be getting sent through.
<benji> ooh
<benji> is there a sane way to control-click on Mac?
<gmb> Not that I know of.
<gmb> But I've never tried.
<gmb> Ah, wait.
<gmb> I might be able to disable it.
<benji> gmb: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5044414&postcount=2
<gmb> Ah, yes, I'm looking at that too.
<gmb> Another try...
<gmb> benji, Anything?
<benji> gmb: nope
<benji> did you put the control code back?
<gmb> Yes.
<gmb> maybe I need to restart the VM.
<benji> could be
<gmb> benji, I need to finish a review, but I'll come back to this if I have time before my EoD.
<benji> gmb: cool, I'm hungry, so lunch for me
<gmb> Okidoke. Catch you later.
<gary_poster> data center tests passed!
<frankban> great!
<bac> benji, gary_poster: would either of you have a minute to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-987444/+merge/105862
<benji> bac: sure
<benji> bac: done
<bac> my time estimate was spot on
<benji> :)
<benji> bac: since that frees up a WIP spot, we should probably swap out and you take the slack spot if you want.  I don't want to be a slack hog.
<bac> benji: ok, but i still need to get my ducks, er rabbits, in a row
<bac> maybe 30 minutes
<benji> ok
<benji> I have plenty to work on until then.
<bac> benji: pypi shows bigjools as the only package owner for rabbitfixture...so i guess i'm screwed until he can give me upload rights.
<bac> benji: lane clear
<benji> grr grr grr, something keeps muting my speaker; I can't hear the IRC beeps
<benji> gary_poster: you might want to review this https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/bug-974617-5/+merge/105893
<gary_poster> benji, on call will look in a bit
<gary_poster> ...like, say, now
<gary_poster> benji, I guess you kept the last urlopen around just because it read better?
<gary_poster> (line 35 of the diff)
<benji> gary_poster: yep; I came very close to removing it, but I figured that it doesn't cost much and is much simpler in this step 1, step 2, step 3 ordering
<gary_poster> ok cool benji
<benji> grr, grr, no beep; I have to stare IRC or risk missing people talking to me.  I need to figure this out.
<gary_poster> approved, benji
<gary_poster> beep
<benji> pfft
<gary_poster> :-)
<benji> it's really odd: if I turn the volume down I don't hear anything, but once I turn it up one notch I hear the "you just changed the volume and this is how loud it is now" sound
<gary_poster> huh
<gary_poster> the only thing I can think of is that there is some bug about lxc causing volume issues for someone (I think Serge)--looking...
<gary_poster> benji (beep), bug 948447
<_mup_> Bug #948447: Starting an LXC changes the volume (sound!) of the host <amd64> <apport-bug> <precise> <lxc (Ubuntu):Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/948447 >
<benji> hmm
<benji> interesting, that might be related to my problem
<gary_poster> oh benji, when you get a chance, could you please try to connect with stub about bug 992184 to help him duplicate the problem?
<_mup_> Bug #992184: lib/lp/services/database/doc/textsearching.txt fails intermittently/rarely on parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by stub> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/992184 >
<gary_poster> I made a misc card for that to remind us
<benji> gary_poster: will do, thanks for the card
<gary_poster> thank you
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-16
<frankban> morning gmb, please call me if you need a code review, a film review, and in general a review of anything reviewable
<gmb> frankban, Duly noted :). I should have something for you before the morning is out, actually.
<frankban> cool
<frankban> ah gmb, if you have time: https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/lpsetup/branch-subcommand/+merge/105857
<gmb> frankban, Sure, I'll look shortly.
<frankban> thank you gmb
<gmb> frankban, https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/launchpad/bug-999554/+merge/105944 needs a review when you've got a second.
<frankban> sure gmb
<gmb> frankban, Your lpsetup branch looks good.
<frankban> gmb: cool, your branch looks good too, i have just a comment, probably the LoC fever will hit us in the future
<gmb> frankban, Oh, crumbs. Good catch :)
<gmb> Fixed & pushed.
<frankban> thanks gmb
<bac> morning frankban -- how goes the reviewing?
<frankban> hi bac: it's going well
<bac> i hope it is as glamorous as you anticipated!  :)
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb call in 2 (11 after the hour)
<gmb> Yarp.
<gary_poster> benji gmb yoo hoo
<gmb> gary_poster, I keep getting redirected to plus.google.com when I try to join. Can you invite Canonical-me please?
<gary_poster> gmb, I just sent to graham.binns@canonical.com.  It doesn't auto complete :-/
<gary_poster> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1NCbUDCxjnsXbz9AeW0HAmmMdOM7g3eEhhCxyE3_3fRM/edit
 * gmb -> lunch
 * benji reboots.
<benji> gary_poster: The only thing I can think to add to the two-week summary would be to harden (or plan to discuss hardening) what exactly we mean by 95% success rate.  The two week metric is pretty good but probably too big.  You also mention using the last three days, which seems good.
<benji> A particular number of runs might be a good idea too.
<gary_poster> benji, good point, thank you.  I'll incorporate that
<frankban> gary_poster: in "goals for next meeting" the switch to lpsetup is still present
<gary_poster> frankban, right, I think I mentioned on call that "Progress on tracked items" and "Goals for next meeting" are not yet updated.  I'll be sure to update those.  Thank you.
<frankban> oh... right
<benji> now I can't reproduce the sound problem.  I'm going to consider it fixed until it isn't.
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> gmb, I'm approving things in canonicaladmin.  already approved bank/swap days.  looking at expenses.  Why don't you need per diems for April 30 & May 1--ah right, because they were vacation days because of flight scheduling snafu, right?
<benji> gary_poster: re. stub and 992184; I'm inclined to set up a buildbot setup in EC2 and verify that I can reproduce the problem there and then give him instructions on how to do the same.  How does that sound?
<gary_poster> benji, sounds good, if you think that can be super cheap to do.  Other alternatives include letting him look at data center, which had one instance in the past 8, but does not give him sudo access to much of anything; or to just tell him how to set up our buildbot juju thing, which would be cheaper in developer time probably if more expensive in ec2
<gary_poster> gmb, similar question about May 6, 7, 11
<gary_poster> no per diem
<benji> gary_poster: I was going to do the latter after verifying that I could reproduce the problem there, but I guess since we've seen the problem there, then we can assume it is reproducable
<gary_poster> gmb, that's Sunday, Monday, Friday?
<gary_poster> benji, "I guess since we've seen the problem there, then we can assume it is reproducable" there = data center?
<benji> gary_poster: no, EC2 using our Buildbot charms
<gary_poster> oh cool.  except that I'm confused by your sentence then.  Rereading...
<gary_poster> oic
<benji> I don't think I communicated my plan very well.  Let me try again.  I was going to do a builbot deployment using juju, then log in there and reproduce the problem.  Once I can do that I would tell stub how to do the same.
<gary_poster> yes, I think we can assume it is reproducable
<gary_poster> +1 benji.  The only trick may be that we are relying on our own yellow versions of the charms
<benji> in that case I'll skip to telling stub how to build an environment with juju
<gary_poster> benji, I've been using runparallel every day for awhile, from Brad.  I will send
<benji> cool, anything that makes it easier for him would be good
<gary_poster> benji, I sent to you with cryptic notes. :-) lemme know if not clear
<benji> heh, ok
<gmb> gary_poster, 6, 7, 11 had food provided.
<gmb> (Or were paid on a company card)
<gary_poster> gmb, wow swanky :-) ok cool
<gary_poster> gmb approved. thanks for diligence.
<gmb> gary_poster, No worries. I kept track as I went; given that the per diem was very generous (compared to London's, say) I didn't want to over-claim.
<gary_poster> fun fact: I'm trying out our parallel tests on a cool
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> that was an aborted message at the beginning there :-P
<gmb> heh
<gary_poster> fun fact: I'm preparing to try out our parallel tests on a cc2.8xlarge (very fast 16 core).  Will report back. :-)
<benji> gary_poster: as I write this out, it seems like a lot to ask; maybe we should just build a slave and hand it off to him
<gary_poster> maybe fun to follow along: http://ec2-23-22-101-96.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/waterfall
<gary_poster> ec2 with 32 cores: that was anticlimactic. trying again with the timeout for ssh/dhcp increased to 60...
<frankban> gary_poster: amazing! if you want to try the lxc-start-ephemeral/lp-lxc-ip combo, you can find it here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/990779/
<gary_poster> awesome thanks frankban, will do
<gary_poster> I'm going to increase the timeout to 120 locally first; only 10 of the 32 started up properly this time within 60 seconds. concerning
<gary_poster> then will try that other version
<gary_poster> heh, if that had actually worked, the timing would be pretty freaking awesome:  23 minutes, 12 seconds.
<gary_poster> First run only had 10 successful slaves
<gary_poster> second had 7!
<gary_poster> first had timeout of 60 seconds
<gary_poster> second 120
<gary_poster> Now trying with new version of lxc-start-ephemeral
<gary_poster> frankban, new version of lxc-start-ephemeral got us up to 16 of 32 instances.  The other 16 could not get IP addresses.  I suspect there's some kind of provisioning limit we're hitting...
<gary_poster> benji, do you know of a reason why 16 of 32 lxc container instances would not get IPs within 60 seconds?
<gary_poster> or something to check?
<gary_poster> other than serge? ;-)
<frankban> you could try again using the new version and TRIES=120
<gary_poster> frankban, yeah, I'll try that next--or maybe even 240, 'cause what the heck--though upping the old version seemed to show that you could give it 120 seconds and it would still not come up.
<gary_poster> wow it's fast.  If we could get this working that would be incredible
<bac> hi frankban, i just tried using 'lp-setup branch' and it worked fine.
<frankban> cool bac!
<bac> frankban: but i did notice you've chosen different defaults from rocketfuel-setup for branches and dependencies
<bac> even though they can be overridden, i think that may be an irritant for people with existing setups
<bac> gary_poster: re: the subvertpy clean up card...is it as simple as this http://paste.ubuntu.com/990857/ ?
<benji> gary_poster: (your last message got eaten by the beep monster) no; my first guess would be to see how many DHCP addresses are available, 16 sounds like a nice round number
<gary_poster> bac, I think so
<bac> ok, great.  not looking for complication but didn't want to miss something
<gary_poster> benji, how would I determine this?
<frankban> yes bac, I thought about this, I am undecided: I agree with you but maybe, from the perspective of someone who want to just try "lp-setup lxc-install", having different paths could be safer
<benji> gary_poster: no idea; first I'd figure out what allocates the dhcp addresses and then look at it's configuration options (I now realize that that might have been more pendantic than you were looking for) ;)
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> ack benji thanks.  will check in with serge with that as an opening volley when I get back from lunch
<bac> gary_poster: can i use r=gary for both of those?  i don't plan to do a MP
<frankban> gary_poster:  ps aux | grep lxc-dnsmasq
<gary_poster> bac: +1
<bac> thx
<gary_poster> frankban, ok
<gary_poster> frankban, benji, "--dhcp-range 10.0.3.2,10.0.3.254" doesn't look like that should be a problem :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: if I read that well, it doesn't seem to be a leases problem
<frankban> ah...
<frankban> right, --dhcp-lease-max=253 too
<gary_poster> also --dhcp-lease-max=253
<frankban> heh
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> frankban, running to lunch. build 4 of http://ec2-23-22-101-96.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/waterfall has new lxc start ephemeral with 240 tries
<gary_poster> biab
 * benji reboots to try to fix sound problem.
<benji> I found out one thing.  As long as I keep the sond settings app open, beeps remain audible.
<frankban> gary_poster: 32 workers correctly started and a subunit assertion failure spoiled our joy...
<benji> it finally happened: bug 1000000
<_mup_> Bug #1000000: For every bug on Launchpad, 67 iPads are sold. <Edubuntu:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000000 >
 * benji reboots
<gary_poster> :-/
<gary_poster> Wow, it took 2.5 minutes to get all instances up
<bac> benji: i wonder how long stephane waited to snag that one?  he is the new mpt
<gary_poster> lame bug if you ask me :-P
<gary_poster> way to fix bug: release software with more bugs!
<benji> they used the 1M numer reasonably well, but it could have been bigger/funnier
<gary_poster> manually killing 32 lxc instances is annoying
<bac> yay, western digital replaced my dead 9 month old drive with a new one of a different design.  dead 'elements' morphed into a WD Studio.  hoping for better longevity.
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> frankban, would be nice to have TRIES be configurable with commandline args
<gary_poster> trying again
<gary_poster> the subunit assertion is another variation of bug 996729
<_mup_> Bug #996729: zope.testing --subunit allows bad output on stdout, which can break subunit processing <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/996729 >
<bac> gary_poster: heads up, i'd like to start early so i can leave early tomorrow afternoon.  we're going to the beach tomorrow night.  will be working from there on friday.
<gary_poster> bac, fun.  Sounds good.
<bac> some academic friends of ours rent a place every year and invite us down for the weekend to fix their phones, computers, and now tablets.  that's not how they would characterize it but is how it happens.  :)
<gary_poster> lol
<gary_poster> well, I hope the payoff is worth it :-)
<bac> nice beach front house, good food and beverages
<gary_poster> sounds nice
<bac> i made no headway with bug 992814 so now i'm working on the .testrepository cleanup
<_mup_> Bug #992814: lib/lp/services/webservice/doc/launchpadlib.txt fails intermittently/rarely in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/992814 >
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> I hope the ones we have left are not too unpleasant :-(
<benji> gary_poster: I need to go AFK for a while, have a bad headache.
<gary_poster> benji :-( ok feel better
<benji> thanks
<bac> gary_poster: i've rewritten lpbuildbot/scripts/init_testr.sh to be a python script so i could more easily find and delete the old testr files.  so far so good.
<bac> since it is run as a 'step', can i get access to the logging mechanism?
<gary_poster> bac, the buildbot logging stuff?  If so, no, I don't think so...
<bac> gary_poster: yeah, for putting up error messages should something go wrong into the waterfall
<gary_poster> oh
<bac> i thought that might be asking too much
<gary_poster> well
<gary_poster> if you dump things to stdout it will be available in the stdout link
<gary_poster> from the waterfall
<gary_poster> isn't that good for what you need?
<bac> yeah, that'll work
 * bac was overcomplicating things
<gary_poster> cool, glad will work.
 * gary_poster is ready for a break.
 * gary_poster is going to go get some water
 * gary_poster is going
<gary_poster> bye
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-17
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb call in 2
<bac> ok
<bac> gary_poster: i'd like to see the rabbit timeout failure logs if you still have them.
 * gmb -> lunch
<gary_poster> bac, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/992273/
<bac> for me, an interesting aspect of watching _Portlandia_ is imagining our Portland-based colleagues interacting with them.
<gary_poster> heh
<bac> gary_poster: that log is interesting in that it shows it used the new rabbitfixture and the timeout loop worked properly.  given that, perhaps we do need to try upping the timeout, though 15 seconds is pretty long already.
<bac> gary_poster: and next time it may be worth looking at the rabbit log file mentioned in the exception, if the machine doesn't get torn down
<gary_poster> bac, ok cool.  For reference, on eight core concurrency, 30 seconds is usually enough to start up all the lxc containers and 60 is always enough; with 32 cores, 240 was the minimum
<gary_poster> and this failure was on 32 cores
<gary_poster> sorry, not 240, 160 was the minimum
<gary_poster> so more than 5 *
<bac> gary_poster: so perhaps we make an experimental version with absurdly long startup timeout and log the actual start up time so we can see how this one service is impacted by number of cores
<gary_poster> ok bac.  sounds like a plan.  I wish getting the logs were easier. :-/
<gary_poster> frankban, lpbuildbot approved.  looks good, thank you
<frankban> thanks gary_poster
<gary_poster> welcome
<benji> gary_poster: https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/Termbeamer
<benji> I did the basics and added a "Motivation" section mostly cribbed from the email I sent about the old way of sharing terminals
<gary_poster> benji, looks great
<gary_poster> frankban, sorry, late.  joining.
<gary_poster> gmb, you around?
<bac> would someone like to review https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/lpbuildbot/cleanup-testr/+merge/106197 -- to add the functionality to delete old testr data ?
<gary_poster> gmb yoohoo
<gmb> gary_poster: Yep, around.
<gmb> benji's ping issue is infefectious.
<benji> heh
<gary_poster> cool gmb.  frankban is looking for a next task and I thought pairing with you would be wunderbar
<gary_poster> we have our call now
<gary_poster> would it be worth talking with him to introduce the problem
<gary_poster> so he can investigate a bit
<gary_poster> and then we can call
<gary_poster> and then you can rejoin?
<gary_poster> gmb, note that frankban will not be here tomorrow
<gary_poster> bac, if no one has taken it by 11 or 11:30 I'll be able to
<benji> and you guys can collaborate remotely via terminal <wink> <wink>, <nudge> <nudge>
<gary_poster> :-) yeah that too
<gmb> gary_poster: That works for me; I can pick something else up tomorrow or make what headway I can or... something.
<gary_poster> gmb, cool.  Your manager
<gary_poster> 's pipedream is that you two identify the problem today
<gary_poster> and then you have a chance to code it up tomorrow :-)
<gary_poster> and look at that caterpiller smoking the hookah outside!
<gmb> Oooookay.
<gary_poster> pipedream?  crazy?  you know?  oh ok. :-P
<gmb> gary_poster: So, should frankban and I talk and then you and I can talk when I'm free, or do you want in on this, since you have more context and I've only given it a tentative prodding?
<gary_poster> eh, I wasn't intending to participate, but sure, I'll join the party
<gary_poster> gmb, frankban https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhorde ?
<frankban> gary_poster: joining
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> frankban: So, I'm going to grab coffee and then I'll be right with you.
<frankban> ok gmb
 * benji reboots
<gmb> frankban, I'm in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/zope.testing.die.in.a.fire whenever you're ready.
<frankban> gmb: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/992640/
<gmb> frankban, Thanks.
<gary_poster> benji, hey.  So, I'm trying to get my head around the implications of your most recent results for bug 992184
<_mup_> Bug #992184: lib/lp/services/database/doc/textsearching.txt fails intermittently/rarely on parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by stub> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/992184 >
<gary_poster>  - previous tests are irrelevant
<gary_poster>  - all code other than the python call to nl_term_candidates is irrelevant?
<benji> gary_poster: grr/yay! by beep bug is back again, now I can test my latest theory
<gary_poster> heh
<benji> gary_poster: I believe both points are correct.  Another one: there are other calls to nl_term_candidates in that test, but this one is the only one that ever fails
<benji> (I need to write that in the bug.)
<gary_poster> huh
<gary_poster> benji, can you dupe in bin/harness alone?
 * benji tries to remember what bin/harness is.
<gary_poster> benji,it's like bin/py except the db is initialized
<gary_poster> I think :-P
<benji> I'll try to repro with that.
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> gary_poster: not so much, utility lookup error
<gary_poster> benji, which utility?
<gary_poster> it executes zcml before starting AFAICT
<benji> gary_poster: lp.services.webapp.interfaces.IStoreSelector
<gary_poster> benji, so you mean bin/harness didn't even start for you?
<gary_poster> (it does for me)
<gary_poster> (but I'm several revisions behind the times I bet)
<benji> gary_poster: it does, but since it doesn't accept a script on the command line to run I just hacked it to run the code I want and that code generates the error
<benji> the docstring suggests that it should work, I'm still looking at it
<gary_poster> oh ok
<benji> I got it to work, now to run it in a loop for a while.
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> benji, that's really weird that only the running the test in a loop worked
<gary_poster> I imagine you already investigated the test's setup?
<benji> gary_poster: nope, that would be a good thing to look at.
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> grr, no python file mentions the doctest in question; someone must be a smarty pants and loading it by looking at the files in a directory
<benji> ah, found it
<benji> there's no setup, it is run in the DatabaseFunctionalLayer
<gary_poster> huh
<gary_poster> weird
<gary_poster> mm
<gary_poster> benji, I think layers define pretest and posttest code
<gary_poster> or, they can, I should say
<gary_poster> My system updated, and wants a restart.  back in a mo.
<benji> I'm looking at the various layers triggered by that test now, I'm going to try to see which bits can be removed without making the test fail.  Maybe some will keep it passing but never let it generate the error and we'll have a clue.
<gary_poster> benji, no rush, https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone is ready when you are
<benji> gary_poster: sure, one minute
<bac> gary_poster: ping me when ready
<gary_poster> ack thanks bac almost
 * bac -> refill
<gary_poster> bac, ping (https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone)
 * benji reboots to test missing beep hypothesis.
<gary_poster> bac, approved with only the comment we discussed on the call
<bac> gary_poster: great, thanks
<bac> gary_poster: i've added rabbitfixture-0.3.3-bac-exp.tar.gz to download-cache with 90 second timeout
<gary_poster> ok bac, I'll give it a whirl tomorrow and report back
<bac> ok
<bac> so apple is going all renewable at the NC data center
<bac> they claim a 20 megawatt solar site will produce 42 million kwh
<bac> and a 5 megawatt fuel cell will produce 40 million kwh
<bac> how's that work?  do they base the solar output on 6 hr/shine/day?
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-18
<gary_poster> benji gmb, call in 2
<gary_poster> huh but the url doesn't work...
<benji> heh, "The party is over"; kinda existential
<gary_poster> hrh
<gary_poster> https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/df0279f393cb130a75aef172c90e3b85e2cbf1cd benji gmb
 * gmb -> late lunch / relocation
<gary_poster> benji, let's talk @ 11
<benji> gary_poster: k
<gary_poster> benji, I can't get any of the old hangout links to work :-/
<gary_poster> So I'll make one
<benji> it's the hangoutageddon
<gary_poster> benji, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/5a15c77af3e9d59d30fadc8400e859c42dd7b168?authuser=0&hl=en-US
<benji> checking out lp:~launchpad/lp-source-dependencies/trunk is not fun
<gary_poster> heh
