#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-31
<judax> started to work on a spec for Adept User Guide and added section to DocteamProjects
<judax> night all
<kevogod> fiction --> http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html#addingbackports
<Burgundavia> kevogod, why do you say that?
<Burgundavia> kevogod, dapper has not yet even opened
<kevogod> breezy-backports does not exist
<Burgundavia> yes, but that is a temporary thing
<Burgundavia> file a bug about needing a note for next time
<ajmitch> well
<Burgundavia> stating "Backports may not start right away"
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: what are the plans with svn & bzr?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, no idea
<Burgundavia> we have talked about it
<ajmitch> I found this & felt like trying to port it to bzr - http://www.dur.ac.uk/j.r.c.geldart/projects/barter/screenshots.html
* ajmitch kills off his nautilus & tries it
<Burgundavia> yes, that looks very cool
<Burgundavia> I spoke to the developer of that a couple of months ago
<ajmitch> ah cool
<ajmitch> hm, icons are missing
<ajmitch> but the 5-minute package I did seems to have worked
<ajmitch> bbiab
<rob^> hello
<rob^> kevogod, no they are not yet, but will be eventually. When we write the doc we need to take everything into account, and after a certain date (string freeze) we cannot add/change the docs so it was a case of either include it now or never
<rob^> and seeing as backports are an official project, and it is a faq when backports are available 
<rob^> and it does no harm really to include it when they are not :)
<kevogod> They receive an error message.
<kevogod> And it does not work.
<rob^> yep
<rob^> no harm though
<kevogod> To the computer, no.
<kevogod> To the reliability of th e the document, yes.
<rob^> before the review there was a note there about the issue. it was removed during review
<Burgundavia> oops
<rob^> iirc
<Burgundavia> we should probably have a comment abut that for dapper
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> bbl baby needs feeding
<kevogod> What is the schedule for backports, anyway?
<Burgundavia> kevogod, no idea, we are the wrong people to ask
<Burgundavia> kevogod, you need to talk to Mez
<mdke> kevogod, it is not an error with the doc, it is an error with the backports, the archive should have been created
<kevogod> They go hand in hand, IMHO.
<mdke> no, it is a bug with backports
<mdke> we can't represent all bugs in our documentation
<kevogod> It is not necessarily an error in theory in the document.
<mdke> there are plenty of errors in that document, but this is NOT one of them
<mdke> the backports archive should be created, especially because it is commented in the default sources.list
<kevogod> Should've, could've, would've. The user does not care.
<mdke> ok so go pester the backports people, there is nothing wrong with the doc
<mdke> there are thousands of bugs around, we can't predict them
<kevogod> As a whole, it is a good document. Thanks.
<mdke> :)
* mdke bares his teeth
<Madpilot> heh
<mdke> Burgundavia, had a look at BetterWikiDocs?
<Burgundavia> mdke, not yet
<Burgundavia> took a look now
<Burgundavia> about to go to bed, but will look at it tomorrow
<ajmitch> I suppose I should start packaing
<Burgundavia> can you give feedback on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugReports
<ajmitch> s/packaing/packing/
<Burgundavia> I would love to get it good enough to push to the fridge
<Burgundavia> night all
<mdke> night
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> looking like a fairly even split between duck & dragon on the fridge
<mdke> :/
* mdke goes to work
* Madpilot votes dragon... ;)
* ajmitch voted dragon :)
<mdke> you guys suck
<mdke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake#Animals
<mdke> perhaps it is the pokemon character
<Madpilot> mdke: look under "Fictional creatures and characters" - first entry is for "European dragon" ;)
<mdke> yes
<mdke> look at the europea dragon page and search for "drake"
<Madpilot> just did, no results. <rude noise> 
* mdke really goes to work
<Madpilot> the move to Linux, summed up: "Hey! We're not in CTRL-ALT-DEL any more!"
<Madpilot> from http://theinquirer.net/?article=26935 via The Fridge
<ajmitch> hah
<Madpilot> it's a good article, actually.
<Madpilot> I like the fifth paragraph down, about the "anguish and pain" ;)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> seems that my cd writer just doesn't want to cooperate today
<ajmitch> so much for a fresh breezy install
<Madpilot> it's contagious - I've got an audio CD here that won't play...
<ajmitch> oh finally it starts doing something
<ajmitch> makes a few noises
<ajmitch> cdrecord shows a tiny bit more
* ajmitch loves hardware
<Madpilot> meh... it plays fine in my old CDROM, but not in the CD/DVD/burner...
<Madpilot> good thing I kept both drives... was going to ditch the CDROM
<Madpilot> hardware is indeed fun
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> finally I get..
<ajmitch> cdrecord: CD/DVD-Recorder not ready.
<ajmitch> it was because I tried using hdparm on the old cd write, I swear
<rob^> go the dragon
<rob^> hey has anyone checked out the adept user guide spec?
<rob^> it reads too much like what the spec for the Kubuntu FAQ Guide should read for my liking..
<rob^> total dupe of effort since we already have kudos as well
<rob^> Seveas, you around?
<Seveas> rob^, yes
<rob^> Seveas, I do want to be part of the cc, but the meetings are usually on at 8am my time (I'm at work)
<Seveas> rob^, next week will be different
<Seveas> there will be a special forums meeting and i want to sneak in your membership 
<rob^> oh
<rob^> when is it on?
<spayne> who here is from Wiki team?
<spayne> hey Seveas 
<mdke> spayne, what's up
<Seveas> will 03:00 UTC work for you?
<spayne> mdke: i'd like to join the Wiki team :)
<rob^> depends what day
<mdke> spayne, right
<Seveas> rob^, wednesday?
<rob^> 0300 UTC is 1pm here, also at work :(
<Seveas> rob^, where are you?
<rob^> east coast of Australia
<Seveas> what times would work for you on wednesday/thursday next week?
<mdke> spayne, there is no real barrier to entry on the wiki, just read all the docs and get to know the software
<rob^> any time after 0700 UTC either day
<mdke> spayne, it is not necessary to join a team as such at the moment, because everyone on the wiki has the same rights
<mdke> spayne, but feel free to join the LP team if you want. Read the WikiGuide WikiTeam pages
<spayne> mdke: will do - thanks
<Madpilot> spayne: also join the ubuntu-doc mailing list, if you haven't already. It's also the wiki discussion list, really...
* mdke nods
<mdke> joining the LP team as such doesn't actually mean anything
<rob^> Seveas, but before 1600 UTC at the latest
<rob^> (which is like 2am)
<spayne> Madpilot: done!
<rob^> mdke you still around?
<mdke> yeah
<rob^> just regarding the userguide, have you looked at the xfce userguide at all? (the way they do it)
<rob^> basically the userguide is a simple overview and a few other things, the sections are written by others
<rob^> there is a "user guide" and "manuals"
<rob^> http://www.loculus.nl/xfce/documentation/docs-4.2/
<mdke> i'll look
<mdke> ok, but they don't have a StarterGuide
<mdke> for us, I see overlap as a MAJOR issue
<rob^> it is
<mdke> hence my suggestion 3
<rob^> see my comment on UserGuide
<mdke> ok so you would faviour my suggestion 1
<rob^> if we choose to keep the userguide (just say), the way xfce do it would be easier to do then trying to write one massive document
<mdke> i think that is gonna be pretty hard
<rob^> I can't say suggestion 1 as I'm not the one contributing to it
<mdke> sure
<rob^> from where I sit suggestion three would be better
<mdke> my problem with suggestion 1 is not the contribution, it's the theoretical difficulty of finding a dividing line and applying it
<mdke> the userguide and starterguide would have to continuous interlink
<rob^> it would be easier to scrap the user guide and make the faq guide the userguide (with much work)
<mdke> well, now you're getting into semantics ;)
<mdke> that is still suggestion 3 :)
<rob^> i just made the other suggestion as I'm sure there will be people who are in love with the userguide but dont contribute :P
<mdke> heh
<rob^> ok, well I'm happy with nr 3
<mdke> looks like jerome is too
<rob^> well thats all three of us ;)
<mdke> btw rob^ there is a thread on the forum about Unofficial versus Official guide
<rob^> oh
<rob^> I don't frequent the forums much, got a link?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=444162
<mdke> sorry that is not the top
<rob^> yeah
* rob^ had better sign up
* rob^ tried a couple of weeks ago but it bumed out
<Madpilot> the forums have even more silly crap and bad advice on them than #ubuntu ever does...
<rob^> heh yeah I bet
<Belutz> hello all
<Belutz> i'm confuse when translating the faqguide
<rob^> hi Belutz 
<rob^> whats the problem your having?
<Belutz> when i'm translating the faqguide, should i presume that the user is using ubuntu in my language, or presume that the user is using ubuntu in english? because the menu names is different
<rob^> off the top of my head I'd say your language, mdke?
<mdke> me too
<Belutz> ok then
<Belutz> :)
<Belutz> are there anything i could do for the doc team, instead just translating it?
<rob^> there is always the wiki
<rob^> we are always needing help there!
<Belutz> ok :)
<rob^> if your into xml/docbook at all you can also check out our subversion repository
<Belutz> may i ask about the rosetta in here?
<mdke> in #launchpad
<mdke> for docteam contributions, check out doc.ubuntu.com
<Belutz> well, i've been thinking to make a book of ubuntu in my language
<mdke> cool
<mdke> but it is even cooler if you help on the English docs, so they can be made available in all languages!
<Belutz> yes, i will help too, i'll be learning about the docbook
<mdke> great
<Belutz> i love ubuntu, and i have to contribute something to what i love
<mdke> :)
<bhuvan> this is regarding rss for w.u.c/RecentChanges. i've a suggestion. shall we discuss here ?
<mdke> bhuvan, what is the suggestion?
<bhuvan> how about including rss link in our RecentChanges page with 'link' html tag. it'd help firefox users in big extent
<rob^> mdke, I replied to that thread
<bhuvan> something similar to the one we have at, http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/RecentChanges
<mdke> bhuvan, i don't think that our wiki supports rss
<bhuvan> it is!
<bhuvan> just try, RecentChanges?type=rss_rc
<bhuvan> s/type/action
<mdke> oh cool
<bhuvan> :)
* Belutz will subscribe to that rss
<mdke> how do we enable it?
<bhuvan> enable, it's fine if we make changes to the script which renders RecentChanges page
<bhuvan> if you see the source code of http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/RecentChanges, there's a link tag. we can have something similar over here
<mdke> yes
<rob^> mdke, whats with #57 on this thread? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=440049
<rob^> "The New User Literature Project of the Ubuntu Marketing Team has created in brainstorm a scheme of guide-building inspired by the Unofficial Ubuntu Starter Guide"
<rob^> what the heck?
<mdke> no idea
<rob^> talk about stoming on the docteams toes
<rob^> s/stoming/stomping
<mdke> that happens all the time, no worries
<rob^> who the heck are ubuntupeople anyway?
<mdke> no idea
<Belutz> they say they are the marketing team
<mpt> http://www.ubuntupeople.com/file/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17
<rob^> yeah just read that
<mpt> bbl, gotta conserve RAM...
<rob^> do these people even know whats happening in the ubuntu community or what?
<rob^> wackos
<ajmitch> often the way
<ajmitch> people get enthusiastic about something but don't think to work with the established community
<Belutz> rob^, mdke, the docbook you're using are XML right? not SGML?
<mdke> that is correct
<mdke> rob^, no cause for concern
<rob^> no I'm not concerned, just dumbfounded
<Belutz> ok
<rob^> alright, I'm going to bed, night mdke, ajmitch 
<ajmitch> night
<Belutz> nite nite rob^ 
* ajmitch should sleep now too
<Belutz> nite nite ajmitch 
<jsgotangco> hi
<mdke> hey jerome
<jsgotangco> hey mdke :)
<jsgotangco> ADEPT ROCKS
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<jsgotangco> hehe
* jsgotangco is becoming kubuntu fanboi
<Kamping_Kaiser> what did you just do? or is this a general revelation?
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> i decided to punish (reward?) myself by committing to doing Kubuntu for dapper FULL TIME
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<mdke> full time?
<mdke> what about work?
<Seveas> dos anyone have the e-mailaddress of rob^?
<mdke> sure, he uses it on the mailing list
<Seveas> ah of course
* Seveas whacks some brain into his head
<mdke> <Robert.Stoffers@defence.gov.au>
* Kamping_Kaiser keeps forgetting robs in aus
<jsgotangco> mdke: i meant full time kubuntu in my spare time :)
<jsgotangco> heheh
<mdke> ;)
<jsgotangco> i don't think Riddell has the budget to pay for slackers like me
<jsgotangco> hello jjesse 
<jsgotangco> :)
<jjesse> morning jsgotangco 
<Lathiat> bing!
<mdke> hi
<mdke> read the spec?
<Lathiat> reaidng now
<Lathiat> brb
<mdke> hey bob2 
<mdke> which problem were you concerned has no evidence?
<jjesse> mdke what was the spec for user guide? on the wiki
<mdke> UserGuide, but there is not much there
<mdke> bob2?
<mdke> i added an example to the first bullet point, but would be interested in any improvements you might suggest
<judax> mornin
<jjesse> moring judax
<judax> hi jjesse 
<mdke> rob^, i think I know why those xincludes aren't working, it must be because they are outside chapters. Inserting them into a chapter however screws up the dtd... so I can't think of any solution
<jsgotangco> are we still in branch?
<mdke> yeah /me peers at jbailey 
<jjesse> kubuntu docs should be merged back into trunk per Riddell 
<jjesse> Riddell: have you applied the kubuntu stylesheet to userguide yet?
<jsgotangco> jjesse: awesome
<jsgotangco> hehe i added an emblem to the lp doc team
* mdke looks
<mdke> nice
<mdke> we need a hackergotchi now
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> is sean quinn still active?
<mdke> i still maintain he has never committed
<jsgotangco> deactivate?
<jsgotangco> we'll see if he complains :)
* mdke nods
<mdke> you can always reactivate if he does something
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i have 9 proposed members but i have no idea who these people are
<jsgotangco> i guess i have to email them :)
<mdke> i know who some of them are
<mdke> but none of em have commit access
<mdke> jbailey, did you get anywhere on the merge?
* mdke fears it will not get done before UBZ starts
<mdke> perhaps we can do something?
<jsgotangco> mdke: it would be nice to have a doc like the starter guide link to UserDocumentation it has been improving a lot
<mdke> agreed
<mdke> we need that merge
* jsgotangco is not qualified to do such
<mdke> i wonder if all it takes is a bit of copy and pasting
<mdke> jbailey!!
<jsgotangco> sure its copy and pasting and making sure the entities *work*
<mdke> well isn't that quite easy?
<jsgotangco> well sure but i'd like to see the stuff that jbailey planned in the first place
<mdke> me too
<jsgotangco> oh well
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> its past 1
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> later
<mdke> anyone know how to insert some html code into the top of the faqguide html when I build it?
<linuxboy> hi
<linuxboy> I got a question about a wiki doc
<linuxboy> can I ask it here
<mdke> sure
<spayne> linuxboy: ogra is the edubuntu guy - he may be able to help
<linuxboy> I have a bunch of ubuntu pcs at work, which I manage. I use things like 'dsh' to do so. Is there a wiki page/doc all about managing muliple ubuntu pcs in a office situation?
<linuxboy> hes not here
<mdke> linuxboy, the best you can do is to use the search
<mdke> edubuntu uses ltsp, that's not what you want right?
<linuxboy> mdke: what do i search for?
<linuxboy> mdke: no
<linuxboy> spayne: he work with highvoltage ?
<spayne> linuxboy: not sure but i know ogra is the main man for edubuntu
<mdke> they work on related projects
<linuxboy> spayne: but its not edubuntu
<linuxboy> its a bunch of normal ubuntu pcs
<linuxboy> but I want this doc to have tips like "dsh"
<linuxboy> if it doesn't exist, I'll start it
<spayne> linuxboy: go for it!
<linuxboy> spayne: any ideas for a name?
<spayne> linuxboy: how about
<linuxboy> ManagingMultipleUbuntuPCs ?
<spayne> UbuntuOffice
<linuxboy> mdke: what do you think?
<spayne> UbuntuOfficeEnvrionment
<mdke> linuxboy, anything you like
<linuxboy> well...
<linuxboy> UbuntuOfficeEnvrionment is too specific
<linuxboy> and ManagingMultipleUbuntuPCs is too long
<mdke> cut the "ubuntu"
<spayne> linuxboy: how about ManagingMultiplePCs
<spayne> mdke:  :)
<linuxboy> cool
<mdke> linuxboy, check out the page WikiGuide for help on editing and rules for guides
<spayne> mdke: Wiki people like me and mdke will check it out
<spayne> whoops!
<spayne> that was meant for linuxboy
<linuxboy> heh
<linuxboy> what wiki does ubuntu use?
<linuxboy> well
<mdke> moinmoin
<linuxboy> ok
<linuxboy> never used that
<mdke> :)
<linuxboy> I've used mediawiki
<mdke> this is quite simple too
<mdke> that guide page should help a bit
<linuxboy> cool
<mdke> and point you towards more comprehensive docs if you need em
<linuxboy> now, have I created an account?
<mdke> :)
<linuxboy> I'm not sure
<mdke> if not, now is the time
<mdke> search for your name at https://launchpad.net/people
<linuxboy> I'm busy remotly upgrading an ubuntu pc
<linuxboy> I have registered
<linuxboy> oh, hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi linuxboy 
<linuxboy> didn't see you there
<highvoltage> where?
<linuxboy> so, I've now got my password
<highvoltage> oh. here.
<linuxboy> whats my username?
<highvoltage> your e-mail address, i think
<linuxboy> ah
<linuxboy> that would make sense
<linuxboy> how the heck do I create a new page?
<linuxboy> visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ManagingMultiplePCs?action=edit
<linuxboy> I assume?
<highvoltage> type https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThisIsNewPage in URL
<highvoltage> yep
<linuxboy> then?
<linuxboy> wheres the edit button like mediawiki?
<highvoltage> you click on "Create new empty page"
<linuxboy> You are not allowed to edit this page.
<highvoltage> what i do with moinmoin, is go to my UserPreferences,
<highvoltage> and choose the option that double-click means edit.
<highvoltage> then i just double-click on the pages to edit them.
<linuxboy> where is UserPreferences ?
<highvoltage> i have edubuntu skin... let me just switch...
<linuxboy> ah
<spayne> linuxboy: have you logged in?
<linuxboy> found it
<spayne> :)
<mpt> MoinMoin's login process is a bit poor
<mpt> you have to log in, then click Back twice, then click Reload
<mdke> yeah that blows
<linuxboy> heh
<mdke> not like launchpad :)
<linuxboy> I don't like moinmoni
<linuxboy> moinmoin
<mdke> i do :)
<highvoltage> moinmoin is okay, but it takes getting used to.
<mdke> give it a chance
<highvoltage> people tend to have difficulty going from moinmoin to mediawiki or vice versa.
<linuxboy> Thank you for your changes. Your attention to detail is appreciated.
<linuxboy> Status of sending notification mails:
<linuxboy> [en]  JeromeGotangco, DanielHolbach2, DanielRobitaille, JonathanRiddell, AndrewMitchell: Mail sent OK
<judax> just added kde/adeptguide with first-pass skel of a doc and screenshots, etc.
<linuxboy> 
<linuxboy> heh
<linuxboy> they will see the crap I wrote
* mdke gasps
<mdke> you didn't insert a COMMENT!!
<mdke> you must die
<highvoltage> hehe
* linuxboy dies
<linuxboy> I'll read the rules *after* I've broken them
<mdke> it says to insert a comment on the WikiGuide
<mdke> if we succeed in moving the wiki documentation, we'll have to hack moin and make that mandatory :)
<jjesse> judax: just saw the adeptguide stuff that rocks
<judax> jjesse: thx, very early, but it is a start
<mdke> oof nice work
<mdke> we should have that contribution stuff in a separate page though
<mdke> omg i was just looking at the spec, now I see there is a doc already too!
<mdke> like judax 
<mdke> like/nice
<judax> hehe, thx
<jjesse> hey kubuntu docs are quick now :)
* mdke pesters jbailey some more
<judax> kubuntu rocks!
<linuxboy> night guys
<judax> night linuxboy 
<linuxboy> I'll add real content to my wiki tomorrow
<mdke> nite and welcome
<linuxboy> if I get a chance
<judax> just found an open-box mac mini at the store for cheap-cheap, looks like it is time for kubuntu ppc
<spayne> night all
<spayne> judax: i just bought a Mac Mini - it is sweet ass!
<spayne> judax: i have it dual booting between OS X and Ubuntu
<spayne> http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/photos/CD-Macs.jpg
<judax> spayne: cool, I am glad I got it!
<spayne> http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/photos/SebFace.jpg
<spayne> http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/photos/SebMac.jpg
#ubuntu-doc 2005-11-01
<Belutz> when i'm translating the faqguide, i found some inconsistency in the xml, sometimes it use <application> and the others use <application os="gnome">, or that's the way it is?
<judax> Belutz: I believe that is left over from when the ubuntu and kubuntu faq guides were to derive from the same source
<Belutz> i see, ok
<judax> but someone else may have a better explanation
<judax> taking a damn break
<Burgundavia> the specs are coming thick and fast, right in the middle of all the docs, dammit
<Burgundavia> and the wiki is still slwo
<Burgundavia> robitaille, the new gst-ffmpeg likely fixes the issue of apple trailers not have sound. See http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rbultje/2005/10/27/0
<robitaille> Burgundavia,  that's great news.
<ajmitch> hi robitaille
<robitaille> Hi ajmitch 
<robitaille> any of you run dapper?
<ajmitch> so who from the doc team will be at UBZ?
<ajmitch> not yet
* robitaille points finger at Burgundavia 
<robitaille> I think he is the only one
<ajmitch> ok
<judax> Edited kde/Makefile to account for status output for Adept User Guide and html build for same doc
<judax> now off to bed, take care all
<mdke> morning
<Madpilot> evening
<Madpilot> still have to write an email to doclist w/ my $0.02 about the wiki/doc move proposals...
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, I am the only one currently
<rob^> hi
<ajmitch> hello rob^ 
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: only one running Dapper? so what entertaining breakages have you had so far?
<rob^> hi ajmitch 
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, only one going to UBZ
* Burgundavia just watched Hellboy
<mdke> Madpilot, that would be good.
<mdke> Burgundavia, need your comments too, especially because I put you down as a participant on the spec
<Burgundavia> mdke, for BetterWikiDocs?
<Madpilot> mdke: writing now... been ignoring the computer all day, and am buried in email as a result...
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> especially on the "gradual move" idea
<mdke> henrik had that yesterday
<rob^> mdke, in regard to the faq guide on h.u.c, if we can't get this sorted out I can go to town on the html (I'd like to add proper anchors in any case)
<mdke> rob^, it would be a shame to not do it for all languages :(
<rob^> that is true
<mdke> i'd also like a way to add the php header and side bar
<mdke> i had a quick look at the .xsl stuff yesterday but couldnt figure anything out
<Burgundavia> mdke, the gradual move would allow us to rewrite the crap that exists now
<rob^> we could do it in the makefile, just using simple shell commands but it won't be in all languages if needed.
<Burgundavia> mdke, we should also push for new moin versions, if at all possible
<mdke> Burgundavia, also henrik thought that if we could show that it works for a few pages, mark would be more likely to abandon his "one wiki to rule them all" theory
<mdke> Burgundavia, that would mean that spiv would have to write a new launchpad hack :)
<mdke> but note that idea on the page
<mdke> i don't think henrik has done the install yet
<mdke> rob^, that would be a start... the makefile contains all languages
<rob^> might be a little painful though
* mdke nods
<mdke> it is rather unprofessional to have those xinclude errors
<rob^> yep
<mdke> can we remove the licences? in any case there is the licence section at the beginning, with links to the online version?
<Burgundavia> mdke, noted ont he page
<mdke> cool
* Burgundavia laughs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AzureusHowTo <-- the author added himself to category cleanup
<rob^> hehe
<mdke> i'm so totally opposed to a separate kubuntu wiki
* mdke can't even begin to think how opposed he is
<rob^> mdke, yes, I think kubuntu will gain more exposure on our wiki when we get it to negate the need for one
<mdke> hope so
<rob^> well there won't be any devel crap to clog it for one thing
<rob^> and we can keep it neat and sorted better also
<rob^> bbl
<Madpilot> alternate wiki/doc proposal sent to the list...
<mdke> thanks
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, the problem with your proposal is that we would require buyin from all the developers
<Madpilot> it's another way of getting what rob^ just refered to as "devel crap" out of the way of the docs regular users actually use...
<Burgundavia> moving our docs is probably going to be easier, socially
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: the MOTUs and devs and such are far more involved, and easier to reach (I'd assume)
<Burgundavia> we will talk about it at UBZ, but I don't expect miracles
<mdke> also, your point about "breakages and frustrated users" needs examples
<mdke> also I like our proposal because it would mean having static and wiki docs in the same place
<mdke> and maybe even searchable together
<Madpilot> mdke: the best example I can think of is ubotu - heavily used on #ubuntu and filled with hundreds of wiki links, all of which will break or need redirects
<Burgundavia> the redirects are not a big issue
<Burgundavia> we can also lock the pages so that they cannot be edited on wiki.u.c
<mdke> sure they will need redirects, but redirects will not break
<Madpilot> http://ubuntu.cc.com.au <-- ubotu's database, which is currently 529 items long, many/most of them wiki.u.c links
<mdke> i've tried to address the issue of breaking links in that spec
<mdke> Madpilot, that will change gradually, as with human peoples' bookmarks... but we can make sure the links don't break
<Burgundavia> the longer we leave the issue, the worse it is going to get
<mdke> ok i'm going to work
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: agreed - I'm just not convinced that abandoning wiki.u.c is actually the right answer 
<Madpilot> later, mdke
<mdke> Madpilot, people don't expect the "wiki" link to lead them to docs
<mdke> they would follow a "help" tab
<mdke> and the wiki would return to being a "brainstorming area" for devel and community
<Madpilot> I guess - I'm likely overestimating the # of people who know what a "wiki" is, even amongst Linux users ;)
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> the term wiki is mostly only known to people who edit on them frequently
<Burgundavia> most readers at WP probably don't even know that they can edit
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> he has such a nice name
<rob^> ubotu is a minor issue, it can be changed
<rob^> needs a cleanout anyway
<rob^> everyone elses links are the problem
<rob^> what if wiki.u.c pointed to our wiki and the other wiki to devwiki.u.c or something?
<Madpilot> rob^: that's pretty much my proposal. 
<Madpilot> anyway, I'm going to crash, it's been a long day in a long week - and it's only Wednesday... :(
<Madpilot> later, all
<Burgundavia> night, I need to work early tomorrow
* rob^ hopes the marketing team will go the way of nun sooner rather then later
<rob^> I wonder if its the same people?
<rob^> (it feels that way)
<rob^> does anyone else have a problem with "New User Literature"?
<mdke> you have too many problems
<mdke> they just need a little guidance in the right direction :)
<rob^> I'm happy to work with people, but guidance yes
<mdke> i can't believe they started a new forum, that is such crack
<rob^> yep
<rob^> part of whats annoying about it
<rob^> and reading it is even more crack
<mdke> ok we need to sort out these xincludes
<mdke> have you read the licence?
<mdke> is it ok for us to just include the weblink and not the whole licence?
<rob^> I'll reread to be sure
<rob^> I think the GFDL might have to include a copy iirc
<mdke> the only other thing I can think of is to try and include them as entities
<mdke> and see if that breaks the translations
<rob^> you definatly need a copy of the GFDL, see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html (How to use this License for your documents)
<mdke> ok
<rob^> "To use this License in a document you have written, include a copy of the License in the document..."
<rob^> as for the CC-BY-SA:
<rob^> "You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier for, this License with every copy..."
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> ok
<mdke> so we need at least the gfdl
<rob^> so the CC-BY-SA is covered by the licence page (there is a link)
<rob^> but yes we need a copy of the gfdl still
<mdke> well we might as well get em both in
<mdke> but how?
<rob^> this may need to change on our Credits and License page though: "Copies of these licenses are available in the appendices section of this book."
* mdke goes looking for help
<rob^> it then goes on to give urls for the licences so the cc-by-sa is covered
<mdke> rob^, well if we have to put in one, we might as well put em both in
<rob^> yeah
<mdke> maybe #docbook can help?
<rob^> good idea
<rob^> not much luck hey
<mdke> you need to wait a while in these sort of channels
<Belutz> mdke, got a minute?
<mdke> yes
<Belutz> when i'm translating the faqguide, i note that some of the applications is not translated yet into my language, should i translate presuming, that the app already translated into my language or not?
<mdke> i don't know, that is up to you
<rob^> bbs
<Belutz> ok, one more thing still with the faqguide, i sometimes see <application>Synaptic</application> and <application os="gnome">Synaptic</application>, which one is the correct one for later use?
<mdke> dude you leave EVERYTHING in <tags> exactly as it is
<mdke> you only translate the bit in the middle
<mdke> translating the tag itself will break the guide
<Belutz> yup i know
<Belutz> i just find it not having a consistency in tags
<Belutz> cmiiw
<mdke> you don't need to worry about that
<mdke> just leave them as they are
<Belutz> ok then
<mdke> the answer judax gave you yesterday is correct
<mdke> ciao enrico 
<enrico> mdke: ciao!
<mdke> :)
<rob^> mdke, does this make any sense to you? http://sources.redhat.com/ml/docbook-apps/2005-q2/msg00056.html
<mdke> yeah i was looking at that too
<mdke> no it doesn't :)
<rob^> heh dam
<rob^> gives us some kind of idea
<mdke> maybe it means that we need to build the legal files first
<rob^> http://www.w3.org/TR/xinclude/#processing
<rob^> http://www.w3.org/TR/xinclude
<rob^> thats the w3c recommendation on it
<rob^> 3.1
<rob^> ../../../common/C/ccbysa.xml <- is that where the document is included on the server, I wonder if its just putting in this link?
<rob^> also this might be useful (its slow to load): http://216.239.63.104/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fcafe.elharo.com%2Fxml%2Fxinclude%2F&btnG=Search&meta=lr%3Dlang_en
<rob^> its an intro to xincludes
<mdke> the address ../../../common etc is correct
<rob^> its puting the xi:includes in as is (without the options): <font color="red">&lt;xi:include&gt;&lt;/xi:include&gt;</font><font color="red">&lt;xi:include&gt;&lt;/xi:include&gt;</font>
<rob^> I wonder why this is?
<mdke> must be the fallback on error
<rob^> are we making the html from branch, if so whats the makefile and command to make it?
<mdke> the makefile is in gnome, command is make faq-C or whatever language you prefer
<mdke> i'm gonna try moving the Makefile to generic/
<mdke> no, that doesn't work either
<mdke> it must be something to do with the path to the legal docs
<rob^> I have an idea I'm gonna try, let me eat my pancakes first then I'll try it
<rob^> something I've discovered: if you put --xinclude in the Makefire for the xsltproc commands, the xincludes dont appear in red
<rob^> got it!!!
<rob^> yay
<rob^> mdke, I have a fix
<mdke> what is it?
<rob^> commiting it now
<mdke> what is it first?
<rob^> add --xinclude to xlstproc in makefile
<mdke> ah that sounds nice
<rob^> and it looks exactly as it should :)
<rob^> yay
<rob^> now to go through and add it for all languages
<mdke> nice one rob^ 
<rob^> man that took all my google skills
<rob^> I found an online manpage to xlstproc
<rob^> by chance mind you
<mdke> use find/replace for the languages
<rob^> (yes I could have done man xsltproc, but I found this first)
<rob^> does it matter if the replace added --xinclude to every xsltproc command?
<mdke> i don't know, perhaps test a build of another document, but I doubt it
<rob^> about ubuntu builds fine with it
<mdke> cool
<mdke> commit away then
<rob^> oops I spelt xsltproc wrong on the log statement, no biggie though
* mdke tests
<rob^> cool/good
<mdke> fantastic
<mdke> nice one
<rob^> :)
<rob^> ok bed time now
<rob^> cya mdke 
<mdke> night, and thanks
<rob^> np
<judax> jjesse: ping
<jjesse> judax ping back
<judax> hey, the adept guide is at a point where I would like some other eyes to start taking a look at it and provide ideas, suggestions, etc
<judax> it should build as well
<jjesse> judax:  i can take a look this evening 
<jjesse> judax:  do you know how to change the makefile to build it?
<judax> jjesse: yes, already done
<jjesse> judax: awesome then i'll build it and read it when i'm done w/ work
<judax> jjesse: it builds now
<judax> jjesse: just the fugly css however
<jjesse> maybe Riddell can add a kde style sheet like he did for the other guides
<judax> that would be nice, I would be willing to help with that but I dont know where that kde-web css lives
<jjesse> according to Riddell its super secret :)
<judax> jjesse: would like to run the doc by the developer too, but need to have it previewed somewhere, like h.u.c, but we have the css issue
<judax> jjesse: hehe, I heard him say that in the docteam mtg
<jjesse> he should be able to view at the web svn location
<jjesse> have you contacted mornfall
<judax> not yet
<judax> jjesse: but at the web svn location would he have to just look at the raw xml?
<jjesse> judax: yeah it would be raw xml
<judax> jjesse: kinda hard to read that
<jjesse> judax: agreed, so then i think mdke needs to upload it to doc.ubuntu.com
<judax> jjesse: agreed, so we need to css thing fixed then
<judax> jjesse: so mdke will upload
<jjesse> judax: i think mdke is the one who has access to the server to do the upload
<jjesse> ping mdke 
<judax> jjesse: yes, but he said he was not uploading any kubuntu docs until they were de-uglified
<jjesse> judax: ah so we need to get Riddell to get that stylesheet applied, did you see the message i sent him ?
<jjesse> judax: i copied you into the email i think
<judax> jjesse: yes, I saw the message
<mdke> hello?
<mdke> ah
<jjesse> mdke did you read scroll?
<mdke> yeah reading
<mdke> still need the deuglifying to be done afaics
<jjesse> once we get that done, you cn upload right?
<mdke> sure
<mdke> i'm uploading released docs only
<mdke> to help.ubuntu.com
<mdke> works in progress in trunk will go to doc.ubuntu.com
<judax> that sounds good
<jjesse> yeah i think that is what we were looking for
<judax> btw, what happened to the stylesheet for kubuntu docs? They never used to look this bad
<mdke> ping me when you have something in branches/breezy buildable with the stylesheet
<judax> granted it wasn't the kde-web style, but that should not matter
<jjesse> judax: you talking about the release notes?
<jjesse> and about-kubuntu?
<judax> jjesse: well, yes and no, I understand that the kde-web stylesheet was used for release to breezy, but I am talking about the general building of docs out of the repo
<judax> jjesse: they are uglier than they used to be
<judax> mdke: we are needing a preview of the adept user guide and we are hoping it can be pushed to breezy, but that is not confirmed
<mdke> getting a totally new doc in as an -update would be a bit odd
<mdke> but then kubuntu doesn't seem to have such strict policies as Ubuntu
<judax> agreed, but the switch from kynaptic to adept in breezy may warrant it, hard to say
<mdke> i can do a preview now
<judax> ok, that would be great
<mdke> is there a make target for it?
<mdke> if not, put it in make kall pls
<judax> opps, I just added a section for aug (make aug), forgot about make kall, I will go fix that
<mdke> aug?
<mdke> ah
<jjesse> adeptuser guie
<judax> yes, make aug is it, kug was taken, :)
<judax> or kag i mean
<mdke> shit
<mdke> the server is having some issues
<mdke> matt@hudson:~$ ping google.com
<mdke> ping: unknown host google.com
<mdke> how the hell can I ssh in
<judax> hmm, you lose connection?
<mdke> no i can ssh in fine
<mdke> must be their nameserver or something
<judax> interesting
<judax> I just added aug to kall and committed
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> i'll stick up a preview when the server is sorted
* mdke reboots it
<mdke> still not working
<mdke> pos
<judax> ok, thanks
* ompaul wonders if there would be value in seeking docs.ubuntu.com and mapping it to doc.ubuntu.com
<mdke> how come?
<ompaul> because in the mind of some, like me :) doc and "docs" are what I read and I don't mean .doc 
<ompaul> it just seems kind of obvious to have the two 
<ompaul> that make sense?
<mdke> sort of
<mdke> but we are ubuntu-doc
<mdke> and that is our website
<mdke> the docs are to be found at help.ubuntu.com
<spayne> hmmm....is there a wiki person here?
<mdke> i thought you were a wiki person?
<spayne> i am
<mdke> judax, ping
<spayne> just i need to check something
<mdke> spayne, then, the answer is yes
<judax> mdke: pong
<mdke> judax, do you know what package I need to build kde docs?
<mdke> error is warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/kde-chunk.xsl"
<judax> mdke: you would ask that
<spayne> mdke: i am redoing the iFolder Wiki docs as the current ones do evil things like alien packages
<mdke> just do a dpkg -S on that file for me, would ya?
<spayne> mdke: so i have done some new kickass docs on compiling it and info. on future packages
<spayne> mdke: is it alright to delete the old stuff?
<judax> mdke: they build on my system so I have the right packages, let me do some checking real quick
<spayne> mdke: as we shouldn't be encouraging people to alien packages
<mdke> spayne, you are working on the same page right?
<judax> jjesse: unless jjesse knows real quick
<mdke> judax, dpkg -S /usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/kde-chunk.xsl
<jjesse> checking real quick, i'll have to do the dkpg
<mdke> is all I need
<Riddell> see build-deps in kde/debian/control
<jjesse> grin Riddell  to the resuce
<mdke> thanks
<jjesse> s/rescue
<spayne> mdke: i have done three docments, iFolder, Building_iFolder and BuildingSimpleServer but somoneelse has done a document on hwo to alien RPMs for iFolder which is wrong. can i delete that one?
<mdke> spayne, did you read WikiGuide?
* spayne will read it again as he has probally mised something
<mdke> read the bit about deleting pages
<judax> mdke: kdelibs-data
<spayne> mdke: shall i just put a redirection in then?
<mdke> lol
<mdke> yeah got it judax 
<judax> oh, ok, sorry
<mdke> spayne, the best thing is to just have the one page
<mdke> i would say
<spayne> mdke: well, iFolder is like the central page and the other pages are for the other products
<spayne> mdke: but the iFolderHowto page is evil :)
<judax> I guess I could follow along :)
<mdke> judax, if you fancy tidying up the kfaq stuff in the makefile, that would rock too
<Riddell> the adept guide should probably be in KDE svn
<mdke> spayne, resolve the links and delete the page after that
<spayne> mdke: woo! thanks
<spayne> mdke: bugger! i can't log in :(
<mdke> true
<judax> mdke: ok, I will take a look at that
<spayne> mdke: i better wait but thanks for your help
<spayne> launchpad is also down
<mdke> Riddell, judax, http://doc.ubuntu.com/kde/adeptguide/C/
<mdke> erm gpl?
<judax> mdke: very cool, thx
<mdke> btw that seems to have a good stylesheet
<judax> yes, I noticed that
<judax> the style sheet that is
<judax> need to discuss the license and accout for possible upstream
<judax> this was just based off the kynaptic template, so I just left it there, whatever needs to be done is cool
<mdke> how come the stuff in branch doesn't have that nice stylesheet?
<judax> that is what I was asking jjesse about, something is different/changed and I am not sure what 
<mdke> ok cool ping me when it's sorted :)
<jjesse> judax: i don't know, Riddell did you change the style sheet in build?
<mdke> oh no, about kubuntu is boned in trunk and branch
<mdke> adept has the nice ones
<jjesse> mdke: if i go to doc.ubuntu.com/kde the links to the docs still go to the page that froud made for preview and aren't current
<jjesse> mdke: that whole page needs help
<mdke> i'll bin that
<mdke> thanks
<jjesse> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kde
<mdke> but you need to fix it
<mdke> because that comes from the makefile in trunk/kde
<jjesse> ok
<mdke> do a local build and see for yourself
<Riddell> about kubuntu and release notes use the kde stylesheet
<jjesse> in branches/build
<jjesse> but not in trunk/kde
<mdke> gah
<mdke> jjesse, the problem is in trunk. Sean wrote the Makefile, which produces that index.html you are complaining about
* judax head is starting to spin like a top
<jjesse> mdke: ok i'll tackle it
<jjesse> adding to list
<judax> jjesse: the adept preview looks good however
<mdke> i'll bin everything on doc.ubuntu.com except for adept
<mdke> and I'll make a link for it too
<mdke> judax, are the screenshots in the adeptguide folder itself, or in ../images?
<judax> mdke: they are in ../adeptguide/C/figures
<mdke> right
<mdke> you've got the navigation icons and so on there too right?
<mdke> oh no
<mdke> damn
<judax> I am looking at the adept preview you just pushed and it looks good, got the nav icons and such, that what you mean?
<mdke> the nav icons are in kde/images/C/etc
<mdke> i need to upload that folder too
<mdke> i just deleted it
<judax> opps
<mdke> ok better
<mdke> :)
<mdke> i made you a sidebar link at doc.ubuntu.com too
<judax> very cool, thx
<mdke> what does S mean by a file in svn status?
<mdke> hmm switched
<mdke> sounds bad
<mdke> judax, ping
<judax> mdke: yes
<mdke> can you svn up in trunk for me and go to generic/gfaqguide and tell me if it is working ok?
<mdke> scrap the g
<judax> ok one sec
<judax> ok, I am there what do you want me to look for
<mdke> just see if everything is there i guess
<mdke> i just scrapped the whole dir and attempted to merge from branch
<judax> it looks ok to me, and the svn up looked good
<mdke> good
<judax> is that tar file supposed to be there?
<mdke> yeah
<judax> kk
<mdke> you don't have it in branches/breezy?
<mdke> geez that must have been a fat download
<judax> it was quick
<mdke> you have the branch?
<mdke> if so, it should just copy it over
<jjesse> is it svn copy? cause i could do that
<mdke> no
<mdke> svn copy is what I'm doing now
<mdke> svn up should copy it over automatically for ya
<jjesse> did you copy adeptguide to branches or did judax do it
<mdke> no one did
<mdke> you should only do that if you have approval to upload it into breezy
<jjesse> oh
<jjesse> ok
* mdke spams the commit list
* mdke pants
<mdke> and I'm spent
<mpt> no pants!
<mdke> hmm
* mdke goes to town on the commit list again
<mdke> spayne, start here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopersDocumentation
<spayne> thanks mdke 
<mdke> please please read the WikiGuide
<spayne> mdke: when you say a sync from elmo, what do you mean?
<mdke> otherwise you will do more harm than good
<spayne> mdke: it is my bookmark :)
<mdke> that doesn't mean you've read it
<mdke> i keep telling you stuff that is really prominent on that page
<spayne> mdke: i apologise
<spayne> mdke: what do you mean by sync? launchpad? p.u.c/
<mdke> planet needs to be synched from jeff's source repository before any changes applied will be registered
<spayne> mdke: oh right :)
<spayne> mdke: from his Arch repo?
<mdke> i think it is a baz archive
<spayne> http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/arch is one
<spayne> but i don't think that is p.u.c
<mdke> that is the source code for the software
<spayne> mdke: he has another one for p.u.c then?
<mdke> well yes
<spayne> mdke: any idea where it is (just out of interest)
<mdke> well it is likely to be private I would have thought
<spayne> you might be right :)
<Kinnison> ciao all
<highvoltage> ciao Kinnison 
<jjesse> ok back from meetings at work
<judax> wb jjesse 
<jjesse> judax:  thanks, gotta love meetings for two hours
<judax> jjesse: I hear ya, that is my life too
<jjesse> yeah i'm heading into another two in a bit
<spayne> mdke: if you hear anything about p.u.c, will you ping me
<spayne> mdke: ?
<mdke> spayne, yes
<mdke> jeez sean is a pain
<spayne> sorry
<spayne> and i'm not called sean :)
<spayne> mdke: FYI, I am Seb Payne, not sean
<spayne> mdke: were you referring to me before?
<ajmitch> spayne: I don't think he was talking about you then..
<mdke> no
<mdke> not you
<spayne> ajmitch: oh right, just it was immediatly after
<mdke> just commenting as I read the mailing list
<spayne> mdke: who is sean
<ajmitch> yes, you don't usually talk to someone like that after talking to them directly :)
<mdke> lol
<mdke> well I don't
<spayne> ajmitch: depends what sort of person ;)
<jjesse> mdke i agree w/ you in regards sean
* mdke sends angry mail to the ML
<mdke> he is just around to cause trouble right now afaics
<mdke> ok i'm off
<mdke> laters
<spayne> bye
<jjesse> agreed mdke
<spayne> i think so - it doesn't seem very nice what he is writing
<jjesse> spayne: he has a history of complaining or doing things his own way and then taking his ball and going home if we dont do it his way
<spayne> who is he? member? activist?
<jjesse> member, wrote a bunch of the docs for kubutu hoary
<judax> jjesse: you can just check the preview mdke put up for adept guide at d.u.c, instead of building it tonight, if you prefer
<jjesse> judax: thanks will do
<jjesse> it will give me something to do as i reboot the servers :)
<judax> hehe, must be a bunch of winders boxex
<judax> s/boxex/boxes
<jjesse> windows servers, patches have been installed need to be rebooted to be applied
<jjesse> i'm a windows network admin for a living :)
<judax> jjesse: ah gotcha, cool
<judax> hehe ubuntu doc is 209MB now, have not checked its size in awhile
<judax> jjesse: we need a one-pager for katapult
<judax> jjesse: or add it to k quick guide
<judax> jjesse: kquickguide is a better idea I think
<jjesse> yeah kquickguide is better
#ubuntu-doc 2005-11-02
<judax> jjesse: ping
<Madpilot> http://www.alistapart.com:80/articles/zombiecopy
<Kinnison> ciao all
<bhuvan> mdke: ping
<bhuvan> jbailey: ping
<rob^> bhuvan, whats up?
<bhuvan> ok
<bhuvan> i just wish to check the status of rss feeds for RecentChanges
<bhuvan> the other day, i was discussing with mdke
<rob^> you know that could get quite busy on the wiki
<bhuvan> oh. but thats good thing right ?
<rob^> there is a way to be subscribed to every page and emailed when they change
<bhuvan> yeah
<bhuvan> imho, this is no way related to the topic we are discussing (correct me if i'm wrong)
<rob^> the rss feeds would be the equivalent of being emailed, just a different system
<rob^> either way you would be notified
<bhuvan> ok
<rob^> I'm not sure if moin has rss feeds as a feature in the version we use
<rob^> apparently you need a plugin to do it
<bhuvan> i prefer to subscribe to rss feeds rather than email every time it's changed!
<bhuvan> btw, fyi, rss feeds as a feature is supported in the moin we use
<bhuvan> visit, w.u.c/RecentChanges?action=rss_rc
<rob^> well implementing it should be trivial then
<bhuvan> correct
<rob^> is that page working as an rss feed?
<bhuvan> ofcourse it does!
<rob^> so if its working whats the problem?
<bhuvan> exactly it's my question ?
<rob^> does it work with a conversion filter?
<bhuvan> imo, we can implement any one of the following:  1) add a note in the top of RecentChanges page. provide the rss feed url  2) include <link> tag in that html page. so, firefox users can subscribe so easily
<bhuvan> coversion filter ?
<rob^> I just noticed liferea doesn't like it
<bhuvan> sage does and so firefox 1.0.x does
<bhuvan> iirc, right now it generates rss 0.9x. not sure, whether liferea supports these feeds
<rob^> how to I get the rss feed working in firefox?
<highvoltage> my word. whoever wrote the opencubit license must've been on some heavy crack.
<highvoltage> sorry, wrong channel..
<bhuvan> what's your ff version ?
<rob^> 1.0.7
<mdke> bhuvan, pong
<bhuvan> hello
<bhuvan> just discussing how we can add rss feeds for RecentChanges
* mdke reads
<bhuvan> rob^: ff supports via 'live bookmarks'. we must provide a link in our html content. thus, firefox provides a interface (orange square in the right bottom corner) to subscribe
<mdke> ok well you'll have to file a wishlist bug
<mdke> we don't have access to the wiki
<bhuvan> oh, ok
<mdke> see w.u.c/wiki
<bhuvan> ok
<mdke> rob^, i might have a go at splitting into server/desktop guides today
<mdke> you think there is general agreement about it?
<rob^> I was thinking about that myself
<rob^> has trunk been synced with branch yet?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> i hope so
<rob^> yay :)
<mdke> didn't you see my crazy spamming yesterday?
<rob^> yes, just wondering if it went successful or not
<mdke> :) hope so
<mdke> no reason it shouldn't have
<mdke> sean was just being grumpy
* rob^ svn ups
<rob^> I think there is, and I'd like to contribute to the server guide as well as work on the desktop guide
<mdke> sure
<rob^> firstly I'd move all the server stuff from the faq guide into the server guide
<mdke> i think the best thing is to make a copy of the faqguide
<mdke> then remove the stuff which isn't relevant in each case
<bhuvan> done
<rob^> I would also like to sus out what content will be the same and just xinclude it
<rob^> saves duplicating work if we have to
<mdke> rob^, will anything be the same?
* rob^ takes a look
<mdke> the preface stuff I guess
<rob^> the server guide will be cmd line only yep?
<mdke> i think so
<rob^> I would prefer it
<rob^> some parts of hardware, Windows Partitions (maybe), Users Administarion (might be moved), all of Networking pretty much, Rescue Mode, parts of Tips and Tricks, parts of Troubleshooting and Upgrading Ubuntu will all be the same
<mdke> hmm
<rob^> just quickly skimming over it anyway
<mdke> i envisaged the server/desktop distinction having NO overlap
<mdke> most of that stuff I don't see as going into the server guide
<mdke> if there is going to be such a massive overlap, that negates the point of doing it
<rob^> all of networking I think will move
<rob^> and there is lots of relevent stuff in a few others
<mdke> yes
<mdke> but the network section won't be in the desktop guide because it is all servers
<rob^> yes
<mdke> except for the top level stuff
<rob^> I'd only like to keep a samba section in from networking in the users guide, but I'd like to rewrite it properly anyway
<mdke> anyway, the thing needs to be planned out well before we start
<rob^> using gui tools
<mdke> yeah samba needs to be there
<mdke> other things I'd like to do involve:
<mdke> renaming the faqguide
<rob^> maybe we need to work out a spec at the next meeting
<mdke> dropping the Q and A format
<rob^> renaming the faqguide +1
<rob^> dropping the q and a format, sure we can look at that
<mdke> i see no difference between:
<mdke> How do I use the DynDNS service?
<mdke> Using the DynDNS service
<mdke> or better
<mdke> Setting up a free domain name
<rob^> dropping the q and a format will be easier to just start with a blank xml file and start copy/pasting
<mdke> no, i'd keep the q and a format technically speaking, just drop the question marks
<mdke> the "how do i" stuff gets on my nerves
<rob^> oh ok
<rob^> it was put in to read better
<mdke> and just make the title more user friendly
<rob^> Starter Guide or something like that
<mdke> nah, I think it was just a hangover from ubuntuguide.org
<rob^> Desktop Guide
<mdke> Ubuntu Desktop Starter Guide is what I like
<rob^> sure sounds good
<mdke> but for the purposes of the repo, renaming the directory and filename might be non-trivial
<rob^> I would really like to see it made neater anyway
<bhuvan> mdke: how many files/directories you are supposed to rename in this regard ?
<rob^> so we could just have ubuntu/desktopguide and ubuntu/adminguide etc
<mdke> yeah
<rob^> kubuntu/whatever
<rob^> etc
<mdke> bhuvan, it is not that, it is that the packages stuff needs to be amended to account for the rename
<rob^> for what we do packaging is pretty trivial
<bhuvan> ok
<mdke> rob^, there is a lot of stuff which would need to be reworked if we changed layout and/or filenames
<mdke> but I think it is worth going
<mdke> *doing
<mdke> but we need a team discussion on it
<rob^> sure
<rob^> I sent an email about what I would like to see a while ago to the list
<mdke> i don't see a problem with keeping kde/gnome
<rob^> I hate having to change directories just to build things
<rob^> if I could just do ../make faqguide or whatever it would be much easier
<mdke> oh no doubt that should be in the gnome directory
<rob^> atm we have to do ../../../gnome/make faqguide
<mdke> yes
<mdke> that is quite trivial to solve
<rob^> when is the next meeting?
<mdke> no idea
<mdke> next week in theory
<rob^> yep
<rob^> the agenda page hasn't been updated.. easily solved
<mdke> ok gtg
<rob^> np
<rob^> cya
* mdke starts to break things
<mdke> rob^, moving faqguide to gnome directory
* Madpilot waits for the smashing noises...
<mdke> :)
<mdke> hey Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi
<rob^> mdke, I've updated DocteamMeetingAgenda
<Madpilot> rob^: without commenting your edit, I notice ;)
<rob^> :)
<rob^> heh
<mdke> disgusting
* rob^ dips head in shame
<rob^> I suppose I should add myself as an author to the admin guide too
<rob^> is there a make file for it?
<rob^> I see sean has been busy too
<mdke> the admin guide is kind of extinct
<mdke> i think we should ditch it
<rob^> ?
<rob^> the old one?
<mdke> there is only the old one
<mdke> i really don't want you to get the wrong idea about my idea for a server guide
<mdke> server |= admin
<mdke> there are lots of administrative activities that a desktop user will want to know
<rob^> well I'm already confused, ditch it
<rob^> ok I see now
<mdke> do you understand the distinction I'm trying to make between desktop and server?
<mdke> they should be completely non-overlapping
<rob^> yes I know
<mdke> "administrative" skills are applicable to both
<rob^> my tired from working all day brain read admin and though "server"
<mdke> :)
<mdke> i'll try and spec it up
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> I think I'm just going to rename the faq guide, I think its pretty well accepted anyway
<rob^> I don't think it warrents meeting time to discuss
<mdke> erm
<mdke> renaming the file is non-trivial
<mdke> renaming the document is ok, of course
<rob^> cp faqguide.xml desktopguide.xml && svn commit
<mdke> argh
<rob^> heh
<mdke> you'll break the makefile and packaging
<rob^> the makefile I can fix
<mdke> ok go ahead
<mdke> although i don't mind doing it if you like
<rob^> the packaging will need fixing anyway
<mdke> i've already moved it once this morning
<rob^> go right ahead, I need to spend time with the other half anyway and it saves having confilcts if we both mess with it
<mdke> which other half? kubuntu?
<rob^> -> wife
<mdke> ah!
<mdke> i apologise
<rob^> hey np
<rob^> some of us geeks are married :)
<mdke> heh
<mdke> i ought to get married myself
<rob^> no rush, your only 24 right?
<mdke> yeah
<rob^> I'm 23 if it matters ;)
<mdke> oh yeah?
<mdke> how long you been married for?
<mdke> my g/f is 28 and is on at me to get moving :)
<rob^> two and a half years
<rob^> heh at 28 I bet
<mdke> got any kids?
<rob^> two of em'
<mdke> blimey
<mdke> you aussies work fast
<rob^> yep
<mdke> 23?!?
<rob^> yep
<mdke> well if you can get married and have kids by the time you're 23, you can convert the Aussie MOD to linux in 12 months
<rob^> my wife is very forgiving for the time I spend on here!
<mdke> i bet
<mdke> my gf is not so forgiving :D
<rob^> heh
<rob^> well, I'm off then
<mdke> ok later
<rob^> have fun mdke 
<mdke> i will :)
<mdke> crap
<mdke> ugh?
<mdke> harsh
<jsgotangco> hi there
<mdke> hello
<jsgotangco> hi mdke =)
<jsgotangco> i found a gas station that has free wifi
<Liz> greetings
<mdke> cool
<Kinnison> Who here is going to UBZ flying tomorrow on BA95 from LHR->YUL 17:25 -> 19:25 ?
<mdke> no one :(
<mdke> you lucky thing
<Kinnison> :-(
* Kinnison doesn't want to have to fly alone
<jsgotangco> only corey is the one from the docteam coming
<mdke> Kinnison, i'm sure you'll meet someone on the place...
<Kinnison> and his is an internal flight
<mdke> plane*
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> *sucks*
<jjesse> morning
<mdke> hiya
<mdke> jjesse, i'm removing that index.html you pointed out yesterday from the kde Makefile
<jjesse> yeah it comes from index.xml 
<mdke> ok for now I am just removing that from "make kall"
<mdke> rather than deleting it :)
<jjesse> make kall still isn't building everything, kquickguide has doc errors
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> shall we take that out too?
<mdke> for now
<jjesse> yeah, i'm working on fixing it
<mdke> ok i think we should leave it in then
<mdke> morning jbailey 
<mdke> i've hacked up trunk a bit
<mdke> ;)
<jjesse> and filled up the commit mailing list :)
<jjesse> waiting from an email from froud on how it wasn't done correcetly
<mdke> lol
<mdke> jbailey, which means that we'll have to fix the packaging before uploading the next time, but hopefully that will be cool
<jbailey> mdke: Sounds lovely.
<mdke> jbailey, have fun :)
<jbailey> \o/
<mdke> rob^, ping?
<judax> greets
<mdke> hiya
<mdke> hey jerome
<jsgotangco> hey hey
<mdke> jsgotangco, i've hacked up trunk some more today
<jsgotangco> yeah i'm checking it out now
<jsgotangco> i'm in kubuntu i still need to download some docbook utils
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> but i already have trunk atm
<jsgotangco> hmm free wifi over here sure is slow at night
<mdke> lol
<mdke> you on holiday?
<jsgotangco> yeah i couldn't resist bringing my laptop over...
<jsgotangco> wife was frowning but they're asleep now
<mdke> lol
<mdke> did you know rob is married with two kids?
<mdke> at 23?
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> i got married at 27
<jsgotangco> and im 31 now
<Belutz> i'm 27 and still single :-(
<mdke> aussies are fast movers
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. sif
<jsgotangco> we have a weeklong holiday over here starting from halloween till end of ramadan
<jsgotangco> lucky year :)
<Belutz> so in here, a week long ramadan holiday
<mdke> jeez i've been working like full time on Ubuntu this week :D
<mdke> my supervisor is on holiday
<jsgotangco> lol that's why
<mdke> we're making a help.ubuntu-it.org
<jsgotangco> mdke: hey you merged the svn that's an accomplishment :)
<mdke> yeah and that
<mdke> and I've renamed the faqguide :)
<jsgotangco> Belutz: when does the holiday start, at exactly end of ramadan? (I'm not muslim btw)
<jsgotangco> we're predominantly catholic but we observe some islamic holidays
<Belutz> no jsgotangco, the end of ramadan is at october 3rd, and the holiday starts from tomorrow
<jsgotangco> isn't that november 3 (or 4)
<Belutz> oops sorry
<Belutz> yes, november 3rd
<mdke> ahhh
<mdke> http://help.ubuntu-it.org/
<Belutz> the ramadan holiday it selfs is 2 days, the 3rd and 4th of november
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<Belutz> jsgotangco, why don't you come over here and make an ubuntu event in Indonesia? :)
<jsgotangco> sure why not it's bee a while since i went to jakarta....
<jsgotangco> im not really familiar with the foss events over there though
<Belutz> so you have been here?
<jsgotangco> yeah last 2001
<Belutz> well, there's an Indonesia Goes Open Source movement
<jsgotangco> i was thinking of a ubuntu asean thing..hehehe
<Belutz> that would be great :)
<jsgotangco> who else in the region has a loco anyways?
<mdke> pakistan
<Belutz> i'll try to get in touch with KPLI (Kelompok Pengguna Linux Indonesia) = Indonesia Linux User Groups, to make ubuntu event in here
<mdke> that's about it i think
<jsgotangco> mdke: that's way way far....
<mdke> true
<mdke> but leaving them out of ubuntu asia would be bad ;)
<Belutz> well, we don't have a loco yet
<jsgotangco> us in the asean region can easily meet up with no visas whatsoever...
<jsgotangco> mdke: sure except pakistan and india are soooo far...i'm just thinking of the SEA region...
<jsgotangco> for now...
<jsgotangco> the bigger asia is an IOSN focus..
<Belutz> jsgotangco, were you come to Jakarta for work or holiday?
<jsgotangco> its work
<jsgotangco> i wish i could do more holidays
<jsgotangco> heh
<Belutz> i see :)
<jsgotangco> Belutz: if we can think of something really neat for the region, we can probably ask the iosn/apdip for help
<Belutz> well, if the ubuntu thing is work out in here, be prepare to get an invitation :)
<jsgotangco> we've been pretty successful over here...
<Belutz> jsgotangco, yup
<Belutz> me and my friend are planning to give training to school teachers in 392 places in Indonesia
<Belutz> an ubuntu training, including how to use OOo
<jsgotangco> 392????
<Belutz> yup
<jsgotangco> WOW
<jsgotangco> Belutz: do you know the IOSN?
<Belutz> we will doing an ubuntu road show
<Belutz> jsgotangco, no i don't
<Belutz> if, and only if the proposal is accepted, because we will need a lot of funding for it
<Belutz> my friend is going to get in touch with HP Indonesia
<jsgotangco> Belutz: well its an initiative of the UNDP (United Nations Development Programme) to promote FOSS in the asian region, it has good funding, the IOSN Live CD was derived from Ubuntu 5.04....
<jsgotangco> Colin Charles (drbyte) was involved in that project, at the moment, I'm helping him out update the training programme since it was still bsaed in fedora
<Belutz> i see, i'll google it
<jsgotangco> Belutz: www.iosn.net
<jsgotangco> Belutz: its pretty interesting really
<Belutz> ok 
<Belutz> and they could fund those kind of activities?
<jsgotangco> that i cannot say :)
<jsgotangco> you can email them i guess
<jsgotangco> the iosn is relatively new and undermanned
<Belutz> ok :)
<jsgotangco> there are plans to create regional nodes by next year
<Belutz> wow, interesting :D
<Belutz> maybe i could get a job then lol
<jsgotangco> lol
<Belutz> i'm going to apply to World Vision International, my friend said they need IT staffs to recover the IT infrastructure in Aceh
<jsgotangco> mdke: do you think our validation scripts reguire gnome-doc-utils?
<jsgotangco> World Vision is pretty neat, but i believe its a religion-driven group as well
<mdke> no i doubt it
<Belutz> and then if i'm accepted, i'll influenced them to use ubuntu >:)
<jsgotangco> it'll be interesting once the iosn asean+3 node gets set up
<jsgotangco> mdke: ahhh i know why now...kubuntu doesn't ship with docbook
<mdke> sux
<jsgotangco> heheh don't start :)
<mdke> :)
<mdke> btw did you see I put up a preview of the adept guide?
<jsgotangco> i haven't..let me check
<judax> jjesse: ping
<jsgotangco> mdke: what happened to validate.sh?
<jsgotangco> ah wait
<jsgotangco> sorry
<jsgotangco> boo boo
<mdke> cheh
<mdke> heh
<mdke> paranoid
<mdke> i haven't broken trunk, mkay!
<jsgotangco> i get a "failed to load external entity" when i validate
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<mdke> on what?
<jsgotangco> kquickguide.xml
<mdke> yeah there is something up
<mdke> is it with the licence?
<mdke> i get that error with gnome/adminguide too
<mdke> yes, same error
<mdke> no idea how to solve it, all the paths look fine
<mdke> did someone do something to the licence?
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> even my gnome-app-install.xml says the same thing
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i don't know what i'm missing
<mdke> could it be something do with with jjesse 's revision of that file at revision 1851
<mdke> ?
<mdke> ah yes
<mdke> lemme try something
<mdke> yeah
<jsgotangco> im trying to think of the packages i am missing...
<mdke> ok i've done the workaround that jjesse did and it validates now
<mdke> svn up
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<judax> mdke: did you figure out what was wrong with kquickguide validating?
<mdke> no, but I remembered seeing jjesse do a workaround for it a while back
<jsgotangco> it works now
<mdke> so I dug that out of the commit list archive and repeated it
<judax> I tried to fix it yesterday, but I couldn't find the problem
<mdke> i think it is something to do with dtd versions
<judax> yeah it is complaining about he cc licesne and header type stuff
<mdke> anyway, something in that header wasn't working
<jsgotangco> mdke is becoming our docbook/svn hero
<mdke> i've only worked around, not fixed
<judax> it doesn't validate in <oXygen/> either, that is what I use to edit
<mdke> dunno even if the licence will get built with the document
<spayne> evening all
<mdke> anyhow it's working now
<judax> so its nothing to do specific to our stuff it appears
<mdke> it builds properly
<judax> but it still does not validate, correct?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> it validates
<judax> ok
<mdke> i've commented out the whole header :)
<judax> hehe
<mdke> must be incompatibility of docbook versions or something
<jsgotangco> it (breezy) probably has the newer dtds
<judax> hmm
<jjesse> talking about the kubuntu docs and building?
<jjesse> sorry was out at lunch
<mdke> yes
<mdke> jjesse, remember that fix you did commenting out the header of ccbysa.xml?
<mdke> i redid that, and things build now
<jjesse> yeah riddell sent me a patch that i applied
* mdke prepares to go home
<judax> jjesse: what was the problem?
<jjesse> there was a problem w/ one of the heards in a license
<jjesse> all i know was it wasn't building, riddell wrote up a patch and then they were building
<judax> yeah, I encountered that yesterday but didn't know how to fix
<jjesse> i know very little about building documents and stuff like that.... i can write :)
<judax> patch the ccbysa.xml?
<jjesse> yeah there was a patch to that or something, the rush to breezy got a little crazy for kubuntu docs so things are a little muddled
<mdke> anyway, i've redone the patch now
<jjesse> thank you mdke
<jjesse> sorry i'm not a bigger help in that area
<jsgotangco> jjesse: you mind if i start changing stuff in the kquickguide now?
<jjesse> jsgotangco: feel free to... i'm still trying to figure out the faqguide
<jjesse> speaking of which should it be changed to desktop guide or whatever it is now called in ubuntu world?
<jsgotangco> starter guide
<judax> jsgotangco: I have been changing stuff in kquickguide
<mdke> up to you, i see no big reason to follow the names
<jsgotangco> jjesse: i dunno really, like Riddell said kde has its own identity...
<jjesse> mdke: i think you mentioned you are leaving but does your changes allow things to be built include the index page you use?
<judax> added some katapult screens and such to utilities section
<jsgotangco> judax: ahh i haven't noticed at all
<jjesse> jsgotangco: i would agree as well
<mdke> jjesse, you mean the index at doc.ubuntu.com?
<judax> and another change last week, what was that....
<jsgotangco> judax: i was planning to do a massive edit on the text later...
<mdke> that is done manually right now
<jjesse> yeah for the kde side of things
<judax> ah, took out mentions of kynaptic I think, have to look at log
<mdke> so far I've been adding links manually to that page jjesse 
<mdke> it is nothing to do with the svn
<jsgotangco> jjesse: kubuntu has such a different way of doing things sometimes the only ones applicable are cli-intensive work
<jjesse> mdke:  ah ok, cause i noticed yesterday that froud has this index.xml that builds an index page w/ statuses of the projects
<jjesse> jsgotangco: agreed
<judax> jsgotangco: can you check out the adept user guide preview on d.u.c and offer suggestion, corrections, ideas, etc?
<mdke> jjesse, yeah, that is very out of date... we should look into doing one
<mdke> i'll think about it
<jsgotangco> judax: sure checking now...
<judax> jjesse: I sent email to mornfall to look at adept guide
<mdke> but the problem is doc.ubuntu.com uses php, rather than html
<jjesse> mdke: let me know, cause maybe we can use what is in index.xml
<jjesse> judax: riddell siad that if we want that guide included it should go upstream, did i forward you his response?
<mdke> jjesse, not really, the best thing would be for me to upload the sidebar from doc.ubuntu.com into svn then we can all edit it
<judax> jjesse: no, have not seen his response
<jjesse> mdke: ok, then i will let you deal with it
<jjesse> judax: email address again?
<mdke> ok --> home
<judax> troywill1@gmail.com
<jsgotangco> judax: it would be nice to use that for upstream...
<judax> jsgotangco: yes, I think so, I have contacted the dev, but no response yet
<jsgotangco> err where is the link to styleguide?
<jsgotangco> in doc.ubuntu.com?
<jsgotangco> ah wait
<jsgotangco> its in help
<jsgotangco> grrr
<jjesse> is there a reason that we include the revision history in the viewable doc?
<jsgotangco> well to us it has a use...you can just comment on it so it won't appear on the output i guess
<jjesse> jsgotangco: that is what we did for the breezy docs for kubuntu and i think riddell would like it so revision history doesn't show
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> jjesse: i've yet to learn how kde manages its stylesheets, i'm catching up atm...
<jjesse> jsgotangco: i haven't either really, i know the riddell has a stylesheet he applies but its in a super secret location or something like that :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> ok gotta catch some zzz see you guys later
#ubuntu-doc 2005-11-03
<the--dud> phew, writing up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandlineHowto proved to be a slightly bigger task than I'd think... have to stretch it across two days >_<
<rob^> heh
<the--dud> let's just hope it proves useful after all the work ^_^
<rob^> the--dud, that could be useful for the Ubuntu Server Guide
<rob^> good one
<rob^> :)
<the--dud> let's hope I find the time to get it done tomorrow then
<rob^> sure, we only started work ourselves on the server guide~24 hours ago
<the--dud> really? wasn't aware
<rob^> yeah, we split it from the Starter Guide
<the--dud> who's developing the server release btw? don't suppose they'd need some help from a small hacker....
<rob^> ask in #ubuntu-devel, someone there can help you out :)
<the--dud> already in there, pretty dead now with UBZ commencing soon-ish
<rob^> everyone will be flying and what not
<the--dud> yeah, way way too far away for the little norwegian student known as myself
<rob^> tell me about it..
<the--dud> almost 1/3rd around the globe
<rob^> I'm in au, too far to swim..
<the--dud> that'd be an understatement :p
<the--dud> at least you had the down under conf close by
<rob^> yeah
<the--dud> yet to be in Europe I think
<Kinnison> ciao all
<the--dud> hiya Kinnison 
<rob^> bhuvan, ping
<bhuvan> yes
<rob^> you need to sign up to the the ubuntu-doc-commits mailing list
<bhuvan> oh, ok
<bhuvan> i'll
<rob^> I fixed the problem in your first patch several hours ago
<bhuvan> ok :)
<rob^> cool
<rob^> thanks
<bhuvan> np. how about my another patch for sidebar.inc.php ?
<rob^> which directory is sidebar.php?
<rob^> sidebar.inc.php
<bhuvan> teamstuff/doc.ubuntu.com/sidebar.inc.php
<bhuvan> imo, it has been added by mdke just couple of hrs back
<rob^> no your one is different
<bhuvan> ?
<rob^> your patch adds three links yes?
<bhuvan> correct
<rob^> it hasn't been commited yet, hang on
<bhuvan> ok
<rob^> hi Madpilot 
<rob^> grr
<rob^> hi mgalvin 
<rob^> bloody patch
<mgalvin> hey rob^
<rob^> long time no see
<rob^> how have you been?
<mgalvin> yea, hows it going
<mgalvin> just been busy with life in general
<mgalvin> i am finally getting some of my free time back
<rob^> cool
* rob^ points at Yelp
<mgalvin> hopefully i can start working on some docs again
<rob^> it got renamed to the starter guide, but the faq guide is in there with breezy :)
<rob^> good to hear
<rob^> we decided to split the faq guide into a desktop starter guide and a server guide for dapper
<mgalvin> neat, i was just reading that thread
<bhuvan> rob^: thankx for the commit
<mgalvin> i just sat down this evening to catch up of whats been going on
<rob^> bhuvan, np
<mgalvin> rob^, by the way, great job seeing the guide through to completion for breezy
<rob^> thanks :)
<rob^> ah fuck don't tell me I just deleted doc.u.c..
<rob^> fcking gay subversion
<rob^> hmm the logs don't say I did..
<bhuvan> rob^: subversion is good ;)
<bhuvan> 'patch -p0 < patch_file' would apply the patch, imo!
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> I'm just wondering whats going on with doc.u.c
<bhuvan> ok ok
<rob^> hmm maybe the merge of branch back into trunk broke it
<Madpilot> hi all
<rob^> hey Madpilot 
<Madpilot> what's wrong with doc.u.c? All that shows is the kde directory - no index page, nada
<rob^> yeah I know
<rob^> mdke will have to sought it on on linode
<rob^> s/sought/sort
<bhuvan> going on vacation. will be back on nov 02 2005
<Madpilot> wow, just remembered (via a chat on #ubuntu) what a horrific mess all the dialup modem stuff is in the wiki...
<Madpilot> nobody on the docteam actually uses dialup, I guess... ;)
* mdke arives
<mdke> oh great
<rob^> ?
<mdke> just reading the last email from sebastiano mestre
* mdke takes a few deep breaths
<rob^> ?
<rob^> on the list?
<mdke> yeah
* rob^ doesn't see it
<mdke> marketing thread
<rob^> on the doc mailing list?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> btw rob^ I caught you using the term "admin guide" again... i think we need to spec the guide out before making any changes: it's important we get the division between the docs just right
<mdke> otherwise we might end up losing material or duplicating it
<rob^> oh?
<rob^> where did I do that?
<mdke> DocteamProjects
<mdke> i watch your every move o.o
<mdke> have a hack at this:
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide
<mdke> let's see if we can get an outline
<rob^> I set up a Desktop Guide spec page today too if you noticed..
<mdke> ah awesome
<rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopStarterGuideSpec
<mdke> moved from FAQGuide?
<rob^> I've also been hacking on the desktop guide for a bit
<rob^> no
<rob^> might put a redirect or something..
<mdke> ok cool
<rob^> so you want to do a table of contents for the server guide?
<mdke> i think it would help get clear where we are gonna go
<mdke> plenty of time though
<rob^> (oh I removed a lot of server stuff from the desktop guide too today)
<mdke> yeah i saw
<mdke> we also need to sort out this ccbysa business
<rob^> I've fixed it already
<mdke> no, you uncommented my comments from yesterday :)
<rob^> ?
<rob^> it validates ok
<mdke> what does?
<rob^> at least in the desktop guide
<mdke> exactly
<rob^> ccbysa.xml
<rob^> so whats the problem?
<mdke> i commented it out as a quick workaround because kquickguide wasn't building, but in doing so I broke desktopguide
<mdke> now, your revert means that kquickguide still isn't building
<mdke> i'm not sure the reason...
<mdke> we need to find a situation where everything works :D
<rob^> must be a problem with the kquickguide, the desktop guide is fine with it
<mdke> possibly a problem with inconsistent headers between the licence and some of the docs
<rob^> odd
<rob^> get the author to xinclude the ccbysa.xml as I've done in the faq guide
<mdke> yes, although that is a bit of a workaround too
<mdke> we need to have a good look at stuff
<rob^> no, that is the exact way to do it
<mdke> erm
<mdke> entities should work too
<rob^> you can do a whole document using xincludes if you want
<rob^> they do
<rob^> eg the cc entitiy didn't work when you commented out the header because it wasn't including global.ent
<rob^> does now
<mdke> well the entities in the kquickguide don't work
<rob^> check this out: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/network-administrator/
<mdke> if you know how to fix it, tel me!
<rob^> I'll take a look later :)
<rob^> this has some intresting stuff too: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/system-administrator/
<mdke> nice
<mdke> i'll bookmark em
<mdke> gtg now, bbl
<rob^> finally: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.html
<rob^> that last one is huge
<rob^> ok bye
<joachim-n> hi
<rob^> hi joachim-n 
<joachim-n> mdke, I just saw you reverted my edit to the UserDocumentation wiki page
<mdke> right, which was that?
<mdke> ah yes
<mdke> Metacity?
<mdke> joachim-n, the reason was that it led to an empty page
<mdke> we don't add guides to that page until they are well developed
<joachim-n> ok
<mdke> in the case of "Metacity" there was no content
<joachim-n> but the user docs do suffer from strucutral problems
<joachim-n> they don't explain the basics
<joachim-n> eg, is there a page that explains the user preferences?
<mdke> I don't know
<rob^> mdke, I've made a few edits to ServerGuide on the wiki
<mdke> wicked
<rob^> plucked some keywords from the mcse course I did ages ago..
<mdke> :)
<rob^> (I just did a brain dump)
* mdke will look
<rob^> hang on
<rob^> ok
<mdke> so you never got those mails about the marketing team?
<rob^> I got the one from sebadtiano mestre
<mdke> ah
<mdke> i've continued off list with him
<mdke> we argue better in Italian :)
<rob^> I really do doubt any of them have even seen docbook..
<rob^> heh
<rob^> lovely
<mdke> rob^
<mdke> is it cool if I rename that wiki page to DesktopGuide
<rob^> yeah sure
<mdke> just for the sake of consistency
<mdke> i'll fix links
<rob^> np
* rob^ just added more to the ServerGuide page
<mdke> we should split the preface stuff out
<mdke> how come that is inline in the doc?
<rob^> from memory I had to change some stuff to make sense for the faq guide
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> i think we should definitely share that love
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> I think I didn't want to break things for other docs at the time..
<rob^> hmm LOTR is on
<mdke> ooh
<mdke> which one?
<mdke> my gf went to italy today so I need to watch some films
<rob^> nr 2 I think
<rob^> bit odd the havn't played number 1 on tv first
<rob^> its kind of like picking up a book, choosing a page at random to start from then not reading the ending
<mdke> you've seen it right?
<rob^> yeah
<mdke> ahhhh
<mdke> i can't get enough of it
<mdke> i love the easy to watch films
<rob^> yeah I don't mind it
<mdke> can we change the time of the meeting next week?
<rob^> pretty long though, I'm usually pretty pissed at the end of three hours
<mdke> lol
<rob^> mmm beer
<mdke> always having the meeting at 1400UTC is an issue for me
<rob^> oh
<rob^> well I'm happy to make it earlier
<rob^> 1400 is like midnight for me
<mdke> *cough* later
<mdke> something like 2100?
<mdke> 22?
<rob^> any later then that and I'm catching some z's
<mdke> when does the next day start?
<rob^> umm.. thats 7/8am my time
<rob^> on saturday
<mdke> bit early
* mdke considers 23
<rob^> yeah
<mdke> i think the CC does 23
<rob^> that will work for me usually unless I have plans on the saturday..
<rob^> yeah but in the middle of the week, I'm at work :(
<mdke> yeah well friday nights or weekends are good for me
<rob^> actually they haven't got back to me about the timing of the next cc meeting yet
<mdke> anyway a reasonable rotation should make everyone happy
<rob^> yeah
<mdke> sorry about nuking the preview server yesterday btw
<mdke> typo :)
<rob^> they want me to become a member of the cc
<rob^> heh
<mdke> you mean an Ubuntu member
<mdke> a member of the CC would put you in a group of 4
<rob^> yeah I thought so, I commited a patch to the svn and thought I broke everything, then spent the next half an hour wondering what I done
<mdke> no, it was my cron jobs nuking everything
<rob^> I dunno, I just got an email about CC + some kind of membership the other day
<mdke> i will do rsync from now on
<rob^> to my work email no less
<mdke> :)
<mdke> segfault, ping?
<rob^> any thoughts on that outline I just did for serverguide?
<mdke> ah i haven't had a proper look yet
<rob^> oh ok np
<mdke> i need to get a better working knowledge of the Starter guide
<rob^> I just went nuts on the outline, so you don't really need to know the starter guide to get the gist of it
<mdke> k
<mdke> what is the status of a kubuntu starter guide?
<rob^> well I'm not sure, I offered to start work on it, but was told by the kubuntu guys to let them go first
<mdke> ok
<mdke> i think they still need to sort out what docs they are gonna write for dapper so we'll let them decide that
<rob^> yeah, I'm not gonna step on their toes
<mdke> whoosh
<mdke> that outline looks good
<mdke> is there a "root and sudo" section in the desktop guide too?
<rob^> theres a system administarion section we can take info on
<rob^> one of the questions is about sudo that we can expand on
<mdke> yeah we need to have prominent information about "root"
<mdke> it is something Ubuntu does badly IMO
<rob^> yep, thats what I thought
<mdke> spec looks great
<rob^> cool
<mdke> only comment I would have is that I would envisage trying to make it a little more accessible for a new user
<mdke> probably via the titles
<rob^> yeah but you cant make a server guide too newbie friendly
<rob^> then most admins will just dismiss it
<mdke> rob^, don't forget that we might just be talking about a guy who wants a desktop with apache
<mdke> he'll setup his desktop with the desktop guide
<mdke> then he'll want to be able to find "webserver" in the server guide
<rob^> yeah but thats pretty rare
<mdke> nah, that's real common
<rob^> for most things like webmin and whatever its already set up
<mdke> basically what it comes down to is this IMO
<mdke> making it clear that the server guide is not just for people who install ubuntu server
<mdke> it can also be for people who run a desktop but want to learn basic services like http or ftp or ssh
<mdke> don't you think?
<rob^> sure but you still need to add some terminology and substance
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> we need a way to have the stuff that a new user would look for to be accessible
<mdke> i think it can all be done in the structure and titles
<rob^> yeah well that was a brain dump comming from a full time system admin
<mdke> ahh
<mdke> is that what you do eh
<rob^> umm err no..
<mdke> no wonder that outline is so l33t
<mdke> you've ruined the "spy" idea for me though
<rob^> hehe
<rob^> but yeah
<rob^> no pdf hey?
<mdke> well have we ever produced any pdfs for our guides?
<rob^> no, but a pdf of the server guide would be pretty nice
<mdke> yeah ok let's do it
<rob^> give people something to print etc
<mdke> sure
<mdke> no reason why not
<rob^> exp considering they don't have yelp or the like
<rob^> just a command line + guide in hand
<rob^> lovely!
<mdke> :)
<mdke> you sound like a gentoo user
<rob^> heck no!
<rob^> avoiding the gentoo install look (switching between virtual terminals to read the guide and type the command) is what its all about
<mdke> hmm
<rob^> my printer is busted
<mdke> i like gentoo :)
<rob^> and yet you let .debs soften you up?
<mdke> yeah
<rob^> weak!
<mdke> gentoo is inherently buggy by its release process
<mdke> and I was spending too much time on administering my system
<rob^> the idea of compiling everything for hardly any if at all speed gain seems kind of pointless to me
<mdke> it's not for speedgain
<mdke> its the extra control you get over what to build and what not to build
<rob^> I'd rather just apt-get, make a coffee and come back to a useable system again
<mdke> indeed
<mdke> i've converted my home server to Ubuntu too
<rob^> if I wanted that control I'd just grab the debian source package and compile it then, hardly ever do you need it
<mdke> i'm 100% ubuntu friendly
<mdke> ahhh, if you're gonna compile, it's all about gentoo
<mdke> portage is the best
<rob^> I have a freebsd friend trying to convince me ports is even better
<mdke> argh
* mdke discovers a way to rescue lost pages in Moin
<mdke> eureka
<rob^> but the question is, do you really want to?
<mdke> it's a pain when people delete pages accidentally
<rob^> mmm random acts of deleteage
<rob^> I'm not sure if thats actually a word though :)
<rob^> hehe that freak on lotr with the split personality is on tv
<mdke> we also need to find a way to include the help.u.c headerlogo into all our built docs
<mdke> that would be nice
<mdke> and doc.u.c on the preview ones
<rob^> the big brown thing?
<mdke> yeah
<rob^> make them look like part of the site?
<mdke> exactly
<mdke> don't you think?
<rob^> I think we need to add proper anchors to the html too
<rob^> yeah
<mdke> see
<mdke> http://help.ubuntu-it.org/guidabreezy/index.html
<mdke> i did that by hand though :/
<rob^> oh yeah, that looks good
<rob^> how did you get the revision history at the bottom?
<rob^> hmm some things broke in the translation
<rob^> eg. application os="gnome">Synaptic
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> known bug
<mdke> i moved the revision history manually
<rob^> we really need a proper help tab on the main ubuntu site too
<mdke> yes
<mdke> that will hopefully come if we get the wiki moved
<rob^> the one on the italian site looks good and makes help.u.c flow nicely
<mdke> :)
<mdke> we added the Guide one yesterday
<rob^> I think not the help.u.c header, the main site header
<rob^> for all of it, just adding documentation team on the doc.u.c site
<rob^> the help.u.c should be a main page
<mdke> we'll see how it goes
<rob^> that quite frankly would rock
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> something to aim for in time for dapper
<mdke> i'm discussing it with henrik and he is keen
<rob^> good
<mdke> it will take some time though
<mdke> first thing is to get the wiki there
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> well I'm going to go watch the rest of the lotr movie and hit the sack
<rob^> cya mdke 
<mdke> bye mate
<jsgotangco> hello
<mdke> hi jsgotangco 
<mdke> how's it going?
<jsgotangco> not bad i got to steal some time again now
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mdke> :)
<mdke> i'm playing with planet
<mdke> http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/
<mdke> feedback pls
<jsgotangco> what about hackergotchi stuff?
<mdke> i think that can be floated in the top right of each post
<mdke> what do you think?
<mdke> or should it be on the left?
<mdke> i personally have no hackergotchi
<jsgotangco> well your peers would probably like one
<jsgotangco> although it would look strangely too much like planet gnome...
<mdke> sure I have nothing against them
<mdke> it's just a question of where to put them
<jsgotangco> the left is most appropriate i guess
<jsgotangco> where is ubuntupeople hosted? a private server?
<mdke> not sure
<jsgotangco> who revision 1999
<mdke> heh
<mdke> quick!
* mdke tries to make a hackergotchi
* mdke has made his first hackergotchi
<highvoltage> mdke: hackergotchi, that's the pics on launchpad, right?
<mdke> with a bloody mousepad no less
<mdke> highvoltage, i think it means any picture of your head
<mdke> hard to cut out your head with a synaptics touchpad
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> i just used a southpark pic of me. https://launchpad.net/people/jonathan
<highvoltage> wow. you have karma of 400.
<jsgotangco> yeah he's pretty active in lp
<mdke> it's from pushing through italian translations
<mdke> highvoltage, jsgotangco, do either of you know how to use gimp?
<highvoltage> i know a bit of gimp, i'm not a master though.
<mdke> i've made my head, but am finding it hard to get big drop shadows on it
<mdke> http://mdke.org/mdke_take1.png
<jsgotangco> not much really
<jsgotangco> not bad.
<jsgotangco> add a drop shadow
<mdke> there is one, but it is not fat enough
<jsgotangco> lol i thought it was a faded pixel...
<mdke> yeah similar
<jsgotangco> you changed the color of your website to brown...
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> got bored of green
<jsgotangco> wow your folks went to ayers rock
<mdke> ugh
<mdke> i need to get rid of those photos :D
<mdke> ah there is only that one
<mdke> phew
<jsgotangco> yeah that pic of you and your gf is obviously scanned
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> i don't have many
<jsgotangco> cute nonetheless
<highvoltage> mdke: strange, i wouldn't recognise that as you. your hair was darker when i was in london, right?
<mdke> not really
<mdke> i took that photo just now
<mdke> i don't _think_ it's changed colour :)
<mdke> might just be the light
* jsgotangco will try to do a crazy hackergotchi later
<mdke> heh
<mdke> i'll try and figure out these damn shadows
<mdke> highvoltage, did you mean "i wouldn't recognise that as you" in a good way, or a bad way...
<highvoltage> mdke: you need to paste your head on a transparent background
<mdke> oh
<mdke> k
<highvoltage> then Script-fu -> Shadow -> drop shadow
<mdke> yeah i was there
<highvoltage> cool! you have a go-opensource sticker on your pc!
<mdke> heh
<mdke> from you
<highvoltage> mdke: with the white background? that would come out weird.
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> ok how do I get the background transparent?
<mdke> I select the head, then do autocrop right?
<highvoltage> i use a longer method, i'm sure there's a better way.
<highvoltage> what i do is select the head, copy it,
<highvoltage> then create a new image, choose transparent bg, then past the image on the transparent bg.
<mdke> ok
<jsgotangco> i just used my last sticker from RMS on my laptop
<mdke> highvoltage, where do I get the transparent background?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: do you notice your head is well position here to look like you have horns http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/52389877/
<mdke> oh yeah that would be awesome
<highvoltage> mdke: in the new picture dialog, you can click on 'more options' (or something like that) and choose transparent bg
<mdke> ok trying
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hehe. yes.
<mdke> ok now i need to figure out how to get a fatter shadow
* mdke increases blur radius
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i still don't know what you look like, you have a hackergotchi?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/13246813/in/set-367688/
<jsgotangco> i'm the tired-looking asian :)
<mdke> show him your daughter
<mdke> (he has the cutest daughter)
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: where was that taken?
<highvoltage> ah, udu. sorry, to lazy to read :)
<Belutz> jsgotangco, nice pic :)
<jsgotangco> Belutz: hey you're still awake as well :)
<Belutz> yup
<Belutz> waiting for early breakfast before fasting
<Belutz> i wonder where i could get that lovely ubuntu brown shirt....
<mdke> gah
<mdke> i still can't get the shadow fatter
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/5166461/in/set-367801/ is my wife and daughter
<mdke> :)
<Belutz> your daughter is cute :)
<jsgotangco> she's grown already...and her hair is longer now
<Belutz> how old is she now?
<jsgotangco> will be 4 on january
<Belutz> please say hi to your wife and daughter from indonesia :-)
<jsgotangco> she just started taking e.nopi classes
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: cool, i didn't even realise you were married :)
<jsgotangco> where are you exactly?
<highvoltage> me or Belutz?
<Belutz> jsgotangco, me? i'm currently in jakarta
<jsgotangco> Belutz
<jsgotangco> ahhh nice
<Belutz> before that i was in bandung for 10 years
<jsgotangco> i got the chance to visit jakarta and bali before
<mdke> argh
<mdke> so close :)
<mdke> http://mdke.org/mdke_take2.png
<Belutz> i've never been to bali
<jsgotangco> well you do hvae a huge country to begin with
<jsgotangco> he
<jsgotangco> heh
<Belutz> nice one mdke :)
<Belutz> jsgotangco, yup
<mdke> it's badly cropped at the sides though
<Belutz> oh damn, i was installing the breezy preview :-(
<Belutz> gotta get rid of that cd
* mdke thinks it's time for dapper
<Belutz> yep, i was suppose to install breezy release... :p
<mdke> http://mdke.org/mdke_take3.png
<mdke> that's enough for now
<mdke> thanks highvoltage for those tips
<jsgotangco> getting better
<mdke> still not perfect
<mdke> but I can't be bothered to improve it without a mouse
<segfault> mdke: pong
<mdke> segfault, sorry I forgot to unping ya
<mdke> thanks though
<segfault> heh, np
<mdke> segfault, i was installing planet on ubuntu-it and wanted your advice
<mdke> but I resolved
<mdke> not sure if you did the BR one anyhow
<segfault> i didn't, but could as who did
<segfault> have you seen it?
<segfault> err, s/as/ask/
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> looks good
<mdke> but I sorted it out
<mdke> my main problem was where to download the software
<segfault> hehe
<segfault> planetplanet.org
<jsgotangco> heh
<mdke> yeah but it's not obvious from the website
<mdke> I had to baz get it
<mdke> segfault, btw
<mdke> are you working on learnlinux?
<segfault> yeah, just playing around though
<segfault> i'm talking with jordi to get it into Rosetta
<mdke> can we take it out of our repository? is it hosted elsewhere?
<segfault> yes i guess
<segfault> do you know who uploaded it to the repo?
<mdke> sean
<segfault> i'll talk to them later to see how he generated the pdf available at learnlinux.tsf.org.za
<segfault> err, him.
<mdke> cool
<mdke> i'll leave it in the repo for now
<mdke> but it shouldn't really be there, especially cos no one has used it
<segfault> heh
<jsgotangco> segfault: talk to sean, he admins the docs at tsf.org.za
<jsgotangco> segfault: lots of docs there as well, the open icdl, tuxlabs, etc.
<jsgotangco> well everything tsf basically
<segfault> great, i'll mail him
<segfault> those docs looks good
<segfault> we're translating them to pt_BR
<jsgotangco> mdke: i'd remove it, its probably outdated now
<jsgotangco> mdke: or better inform the list i guess
<jsgotangco> tsf has its own svn
<mdke> we'll leave it a couple of days then delete
<mdke> I've put it on the agenda for next week's meeting anyhow
<mdke> we need to clean house a bit
<mdke> jsgotangco, still around?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> about to sleep though
<segfault> jordi: thanks!
<segfault> ops
<mdke> jsgotangco, http://help.ubuntu.com/output
<mdke> argh
<mdke> sorry
<mdke> jsgotangco, http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output
<jsgotangco> hehe nice one already! just clean up the white pixels and make the shadow a bit thinner i guess
<mdke> what about the page?
<mdke> any suggestions?
<mdke> lemme just see if I can link the photo
<mdke> gah
<jsgotangco> hmm try adding a border or somethign to separate between blog entries
<mdke> good idea
<mdke> done
<jsgotangco> its getting better
<jsgotangco> well i gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> its 3am
<jsgotangco> heh
<mdke> night
<mdke> crazy
<lucy> ciao
<mdke> hello
<lucy> sono roumen qui????
<lucy> hello
<lucy> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<lucy> romenia here????
<mdke> no
<mdke> try #ubuntu-ro
<lucy> gratie
<lucy> merci
<mdke> :)
<lucy> bey 
#ubuntu-doc 2005-11-04
<rob^> how far from being complete is the userguide?
* rob^ thinks about rescuing a lot of it for the desktop guide
* mdke thinks he made that proposal last week and it was accepted
<rob^> just taking a look now..
<mdke> the idea is to use the userguide to make the desktop guide a bit more user friendly
<rob^> it wasn't validating either, fixed that
<rob^> hmm
<rob^> I wonder if its eaiser to just gut the stuff that hasn't been done from the userguide, add in some faq guide and pretty it up
<mdke> no i don't think so
<rob^> some eye of nute etc..
<mdke> are you suggesting releasing both a desktop guide and a userguide?
<rob^> no
<rob^> I'm just thinking that we could merge the two (but not make it so long)
<rob^> and obviously that would involve removing the qanda format from the faq guide
<mdke> i think the best way is to continue to work on the desktopguide but use bits from the userguide to expand some sections where explanations are important
<rob^> yeah sure
<rob^> this might take a while :)
<rob^> I suppose we don't need the intro to linux, and installing ubuntu
* Burglaptop is now in Montreal
<mdke> hi corey
<rob^> hello
<mdke> rob^, the server guide will take longer
<rob^> heh
<rob^> I thought about all kinds of useless things for it last night, like managing printers etc
* mdke has an immense headache
<rob^> that sucks
<mdke> it is more of a moral headache
* rob^ makes several changes to DesktopGuide on wiki
<rob^> ?
<mdke> i'm tired after trying to make a website work with IE
<rob^> heh
<mdke> i think I've more or less tamed it though
<rob^> I know that pain
<mdke> my problem is that I do trial and error because I never actually took the time to learn what css means
<rob^> oh
<mdke> ;)
<mdke> check it out
<mdke> http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/
<rob^> mmm pretty
<rob^> http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp <- thats helpful
<mdke> reading ugh
<mdke> bookmarking
<mdke> any tips for that site?
<rob^> it looks pretty much like its meant to
<jjesse> evning
<mdke> hi jjesse 
<rob^> hi jjesse 
<mdke> rob^, got IE handy?
<jjesse> on help.ubuntu.com can we get the kubuntu docs loaded under "documentation"
<rob^> I think I still have it in wine
<jjesse> mdke i do
<jjesse> connected via windows box tonight
<mdke> jjesse, can you look at http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/ and tell me if the icon has a transparent background
<rob^> no thats right I removed it, sorry
<mdke> and also if there are any other errors
<jjesse> about kubuntu and kreleasenotes need to be added to doc. ubuntu.com
<mdke> jjesse, are they complete?
<jjesse> i meant help.ubuntu.com sorry
<mdke> yeah
<jjesse> those are the docs that went w/ the release 
<mdke> ok
<mdke> i can find them in branches/breezy?
<mdke> they have stylesheets now?
<jjesse> mdke   http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/  those look good
<mdke> the icon is transparent?
<rob^> so do we want to kill the qanda format of the desktop guide?
<mdke> rob^, i do, but i think we should discuss all together at a meeting
<rob^> dam, thats a whole week away
<mdke> plenty of time
<mdke> lots to do
<rob^> if we do, I have a plan for the layout on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopGuide
<mdke> changing the layout?
<mdke> argh
<rob^> no, just to more fit in with a book style
<rob^> that good english me did
<mdke> yeah that looks good
<jjesse> mdke yes those docs have the stylesheet
<mdke> i would have another section on what ubuntu is and gnu and linux and such
<mdke> jjesse, oh, i didn't see any changes on the commit list, must have missed em. lemme try now
<rob^> mdke, I was thinking about that
<rob^> might pull it from the ug
<mdke> yes
<jjesse> mdke pardon my ignorance but do they have to be built a different way for .html?
<mdke> jjesse
<mdke> the problem is that they look like this:
<mdke> http://help.ubuntu.com/about-kubuntu/C/
<mdke> because they are using the kde system stylesheet
<jjesse> instead of the kubuntu stylesheet?
<mdke> we can't host them like that
<mdke> instead of the web stylesheet
<jjesse> oh ok, sorry a little slow on learning, so if i ask silly questions let me know
<mdke> or some other stylesheet
<mdke> if you set it to use the same stylesheet as the adept guide uses in trunk, that will be fine
<mdke> i'll have a look tomorrow if you don't succeed
<jjesse> ok
<jjesse> don't you hate it when you grab a bottle of wine out of the fridge, take a sip and realize it has been open to long :(
<rob^> yum
<mdke> heh
<mdke> rob^, if you reload/go to the page again, is it better or worse?
<mdke> excepting the rubbish hackergotchi of course
<rob^> still looks ok to me
<jjesse> want me to check IE?
<mdke> jjesse, ok if you don't mind, it should work tho
<mdke> rob^, better or worse dammit
<jjesse> i don't mind that is http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/ ?
<mdke> yeah
<rob^> what did you change?
<jjesse> i don't see much of a difference
<mdke> i put the title in line with the main post text and moved everything left
<mdke> anyway, at least it's working
<rob^> well I guess that makes it look neater
<jjesse> looks fine w/ me
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> i have been bashing my head against IE
<jjesse> IE sucks :)
<rob^> yep
<mdke> what are the fonts like of that page in IE?
<jjesse> can't get my modem to play nice w/ ubuntu for some reason so i still have a  windows box that i use @ home
<mdke> yeah modems suck too
<rob^> what kind of modem?
<jjesse> LT Win MOdem :(
<rob^> that should work with a 2.4 kernel
<rob^> and the ltmodem drivers of cause
<jjesse> i'll have to try again
<rob^> I've had problems with 2.6
<rob^> what I did was set up an old box with smoothwall which uses the 2.4 kernel still
<jjesse> we are moving to cable modem soon so i'm not in a big hurry to worry bout it
<rob^> ah
<rob^> yeah dialup sucks
<rob^> getting bb is the best thing I've done since owning a computer
<rob^> computer related of cause ;)
<jjesse> try troubleshooting work computer problems over dial up -> vpn and then a terminal server connection
<jjesse> then you relaize how much it sucks
<rob^> haha
<rob^> I bet that was slow
<jjesse> it is slow i do it all the time
<jjesse> but i can write some of my broadband expenses off my tax's
<rob^> yeah same :)
<jjesse> when i need to do a lot of work, i borrow my neighbor's wireless connection that is open and i can connect to :)
<mdke> good thinking
<rob^> hehe
<jjesse> so rob^ what country are you in?
<rob^> australia
<jjesse> ah i'm in michigan in the united states
<rob^> ah
* rob^ wonders what they decided to do with the next cc meeting
<jjesse> you didn't get an email?
<jjesse> from dennis?
<jjesse> what's your address?
<rob^> its sunday so I haven't been at work since friday
<rob^> thats where the emails are going
<jjesse> oh
<mdke> night y'all
<jjesse> i could forward the one i have to a different location?
<jjesse> night mdke
<rob^> mdke before you go
<mdke> sure
<mdke> the clocks have gone back anyhow
<rob^> i cant make a 1400 friday meeting -> christmas party on that night
<mdke> 22/23?
* rob^ will be drunk on a boat somewhere
<rob^> sure, I'll probably be pretty hung over though
<mdke> we'll see when most people are free
<rob^> cool
<rob^> ok bye mdke 
<mdke> byee
<jjesse> hmm getting ready for bed, have to be up early 
<rob^> hmm, lunch time soon
<Madpilot> hi all
<Madpilot> anyone know if the creator of CommandlineHowto - DagRuneSneeggen - has been here or on the doc list?
<Madpilot> CommandLineHowto looks like it'll be impressive; I'm wondering if the basic/intro stuff should be rolled into BasicCommands at some point
<Burglaptop> bonsoir robitaille 
<robitaille> Hey Burglaptop.  So are you in Montreal yet?
<Burglaptop> indeed
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: good flight?
<Burglaptop> more sardinny that usual
<Burglaptop> the flight from vancouver was mostly full
<Madpilot> which airline?
<Burglaptop> AC
<Madpilot> Air Communism! ;)
<Burglaptop> Air I-get-no-breakfast
<Madpilot> that's just the planned famine in action, comrade!
<Burglaptop> and Air I-get-no-snack-even-when-I-ask-for-it
<Madpilot> Burglaptop: Doug says he still thinks AC service is better than most US airlines... how's that for a sobering thought?
<Burglaptop> ouch
<Burglaptop> night
<Madpilot> later
<highvoltage> any plans to customise man pages in the future?
<mdke> i haven't heard of any
<mdke> what did you have in mind?
<highvoltage> i just looked at apt-proxy(8), and it refers to a "deb http://SERVER:9999/debian stable main contrib non-free"
<highvoltage> i think it would be nice to get those man pages in a kind of document system and edit them for ubuntu, but i don't have any idea where one would start with such a process.
<highvoltage> i don't have anything in mind, really, just something i'm thinking about, wondering if there's already a solution being divised.
<mdke> not with us
<mdke> that would be likely to be on the -devel side
<highvoltage> interesting.
<highvoltage> mdke: excuse my ignorance, what is the current doc-team plans? is it to use the wiki for documentation, or svn, and is there a defined scope of documentation the docteam will cover?
* highvoltage looks on wiki for more info to...
<Madpilot> highvoltage: we're going to take over the world, actually, using secret mind-control docs... but if I told you more, I'd have to kill you :)
* mdke nods
<mdke> highvoltage, DocteamProjects is the central page to check
<highvoltage> Madpilot: excellent.
<highvoltage> ah, i see.
<highvoltage> what time is the doc-team meeting taking place on 4 november?
<Madpilot> 1400 ZULU, I think
<linuxboy> highvoltage: what you were saying about man pages, thats why I avoid universe as much as possible
<mdke> we need to reconsider the time though
<linuxboy> universe isn't up to the same standard as main
<mdke> linuxboy, apt-proxy is in universe?
<linuxboy> adrian@turtle:~$ apt-cache show apt-proxy
<linuxboy> Package: apt-proxy
<linuxboy> Priority: extra
<linuxboy> Section: universe/admin
<linuxboy> uh huh
<highvoltage> linuxboy: i don't think the man pages in main are customised either.
<linuxboy> still, universe is just slapped together
<mdke> gosh
<highvoltage> i agree that main is much cleaner than universe, it's only to be expected. but i think to say that univers is just slapped together is harsh.
<python_> when the new docs have been created does this mean the old wiki will become dead?
<mdke> python_, eh?
<highvoltage> ogra and the motu team puts in lots of man-hours to keep the universe in shape.
<mdke> i don't understand the question
<linuxboy> highvoltage: ok... when compairing universe to main, it seems slapped together
<linuxboy> because main is really really good
<mdke> highvoltage, yeah but starting from debian each time means that they have to keep putting in man hours and can't fix everything
<highvoltage> linuxboy: i think it's just because main is really, really good *shrug*
<python_> well, ubuntu now have a help.ubuntu and an official document guide, so does tht mean the wiki we normally use will carry on as normal or will become unactive
<highvoltage> universe isn't at all bad, compared to debian, or even to what is officially supported in many, many other distros.
<mdke> python_, no the wiki will continue
<mdke> python_, it provides unofficial documentation
<python_> ok
<mdke> python_, however, we are thinking of moving the pages to help.ubuntu.com to have them together with the other documents
<mdke> see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/better-wiki-docs
<python_> What makes the document official does it have to be signed off by the ubuntu doc team
<mdke> python_, yes, that's the idea
<mdke> the wiki is open to ALL to edit, so anyone can introduce a mistake unintentionally
<mdke> but it also has a greater sphere of input
<mdke> so advantages and disadvantages...
<python_> how do i go about contributing to the official doc
<mdke> python_, see http://doc.ubuntu.com, join our mailing list, download our repository etc
<mdke> ask here if you need help
<python_> cheers
<python_> Are there any software tools to help creating your Documentation
<mdke> well yes
<mdke> it is not too hard
<mdke> but you need to get used to docbook xml a little
<mdke> it is quick to learn
<mdke> you can use something like gedit or bluefish to edit
<python_> ill be okay, i am a fully fledged eek ;-)
<python_> geek
<mdke> ah cool
<python_> coder by heart
<mdke> from the uk?
<mdke> <-- uk
<python_> yea
<python_> but i can do good doc too
<mdke> heh
<python_> i have a degree and achieved first class hons
<mdke> great well we'll look forward to seeing some of your patches!
<python_> so can write good documentation too
<python_> i dont get time to do any patches or contribution as im working on my own project at minnute
<python_> in time i hope to join and contribute towards GNOME
<mdke> cool
<python_> Looking at some of the things to do with TANGO in GNOME i think GNOME is going to be quite cool
<mdke> i am a gnome fan myself
<python_> already is but will be even better
<python_> so what puts u off KDE
<mdke> nothing
<mdke> i just like GNOME
<python_> mdke bluefish is great but i wish they would sort the problem out of its syntax highlighting
<python_> its a major downfall
<mdke> it highlights docbook xml ok for me
<mdke> i haven't used it much with other things
<python_> have u never noticed it looses its syntax highlighting
<python_> i now use Jedit
<python_> great open source editor
<python_> mdke thanks for info 
<mdke> np
<jsgotangco> hey Burglaptop 
<Burglaptop> salut
<mdke> hey corey
<Burglaptop> listening to Jeff talk right now
<Burglaptop> salut mdke 
<spayne> Burglaptop: is it fun?
<Burglaptop> indeed
<the--dud> oh, that's fucking great, only now do I notice that the authentication database isnt available on the wiki!
<the--dud> been writing about 50 new lines on my howto >_<
<the--dud> gone like a fucking fart in the wind!
<the--dud> bloody crap
<spayne> mdke: hello from here
<mdke> spayne, if a empty page isn't linked anywhere on the wiki, you can delete it, you don't need a redirect
<jsgotangco> Burglaptop: uphold the dokteam kause!
<spayne> mdke: i wasn't sure what to do, there was the old HulaHowto and my new Hula, BuildingHula and InstallingHula
<spayne> mdke: how do i delete a page?
<mdke> gah
<mdke> you read the wiki documentation!
<the--dud> #""%#&#$$
* the--dud dies
<spayne> mdke: WikiGuide said to put a redirect and not delete
<mdke> bloody hell
<mdke> it says that deleting breaks links
<mdke> if there are no links, that is not a problem
<mdke> spayne, when I said "please read WikiGuide", i should have said "please read and take the time to understand WikiGuide"
<mdke> anyhow, it's not a big deal making a redirect
<mdke> i was just trying to help you understand when it is necessary and when it isn't
<spayne> mdke: i understand now
<mdke> cool
<spayne> mdke: these tid bits are very useful - thanks
<spayne> mdke: i might get there ONE day ;)
<mdke> i'm sure you will
<mdke> just read the docs
<jsgotangco> mdke: do you happen to know how controls the dns for loco domains?
<mdke> who?
<mdke> sure matthias ulrichs
<mdke> got his email?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i'll just email him
<mdke> yah
<mdke> got your own server or using his?
<jsgotangco> well henrik set us up a serverpronto
<mdke> just for tl?
<mdke> whoa
<mdke> that is major overkill!
<jsgotangco> well we'll have to share it with someone else for sure
<mdke> ah fair enough
<jsgotangco> sure it only has 101GB of hdd free
<mdke> lol
<Burglaptop> grr
<jsgotangco> Uno? hahaha
<Burglaptop> bloody wireless keeps dying on me
<ajmitch> works for me :)
<jsgotangco> what time is it there? past lunch?
<Burglaptop> bloody wireless dying on me
<Kinnison> Burglaptop: clearly you just suck :-)
<Burglaptop> right
<Kinnison> Glad you agree :-)
<Kinnison> Burglaptop: boo!
<ajmitch> Burglaptop: you had to as, didn't you? ;)
<ajmitch> s/as/ask/
<Kinnison> his wireless is broken again :-)
* mdke gets into another slanging match on the forums
<mdke> :/
<mdke> no matter how many times I try, every thread I join always ends in disharmony
<robitaille> which forums?  the official ones, or the marketing ones?
<robitaille> too many forums.... I hate forums compared to mailing lists.
<jsgotangco> forums are flame baits
<Kinnison> mdke: /nick Mars
<jsgotangco> you get lots of silly threads in forums and its unfortunate that some n00bs who come to forums are the antisocials
<mdke> the official forums
<mdke> start at post 57 here
<mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=77704&page=6
<jsgotangco> New User Literature
<jsgotangco> uh oh
<mdke> nah that is ok
<mdke> is gets worse on page 7
<mdke> oh well
* mdke gives up with forums
<jsgotangco> i can just post and say we don't support crack
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mdke> argh
<mdke> and ruin all my hard work with diplomacy?
<jsgotangco> but since its a 3rd party project i'll just look at it
<mdke> it's true that the ubuntuguide was essentially the driving force behind our faqguide though
<mdke> so we benefitted from its existence
<jsgotangco> sure but people like crack...
<mdke> i don't think that's the point
<mdke> we can produce docs that people like
<mdke> i am against two guides because i don't like the idea of an official and an unofficial "competing"
<mdke> and because I don't think the ubuntuguide will have quality control like the docteam can have
<jsgotangco>  well just in case you didn't know chua did fedoraguide before and created quite a stir in the fedora community as well
<mdke> lol i didn't know that
<mdke> but the fedora docs are pretty poor actually
<jsgotangco> drbyte had a thing or two to say about that incident
<mdke> fucking totem built into firefox is such a pain
<mdke> firefox keeps crashing
* jsgotangco learned about it after hanging out  in #iosn
<jsgotangco> so basically what was written in fedora before was crack and was just transferred to ubuntu heh
<mdke> well in any case ubuntuguide was a useful and popular resource
<mdke> but we need to move forward
<jsgotangco> i'll just let it be if you ask me
<mdke> yeah i'm gonna stop now
<mdke> but i had to reply after he wrote "it'll be ok"
<mdke> i hate being patronised
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i'll just post to voice my opinion
<mdke> don't say bad stuff about the ubuntuguide
<jsgotangco> nope
<mdke> it's just a question of development management really
<jsgotangco> CRACKERS
<jsgotangco> heh
<mdke> COME ON THE DAPPER DUCK!
<mdke> he has his bill in front by a clear 40 votes
<mdke> jsgotangco, can we arrange a new time for the meeting next week?
<mdke> 1400 all the time is a shame
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> we should revolve scheds again
<mdke> a later one would be good for me
<jsgotangco> although im about to start my new job in a few days, definitely 22:00 meetings are a no no
<mdke> your time or UTC?
<jsgotangco> UTC
<mdke> wouldnt' that be saturday morning for you?
<jsgotangco> oh right...
<jsgotangco> i forgot
<jsgotangco> i thought we were still doing the thursday thing...
<ajmitch> 8am brisbane time, I think
<jsgotangco> yep
* mdke installs moin on his home server
<mdke> weeeeee
<highvoltage> i need to install moin at some point. i've only installed mediawiki at varios places.
<mdke> it is ridiculously difficult to install
<mdke> henrik is in near death throes as we speak
<highvoltage> what does that mean?
<highvoltage> is he having health problems?
<mdke> no no
<mdke> i meant with the difficulty of moin installation
<highvoltage> aaah. shew!
<mdke> sorry
<highvoltage> no problem. just keep in mind that for some of us, english is our second language :)
<mdke> is it yours?
<mdke> you can't pull that on me, your english is totally fluent
* mdke finishes "basic installation" of moin
<highvoltage> mdke: yes, english is my second language
<mdke> gosh
<mdke> what's first?
<highvoltage> Afrikaans
<highvoltage> my mother is afrikaans, and my father english, so i get to be good at both :)
<mdke> ah
<mdke> well so english is your first equal language :)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> i want to learn isiXhosa (local language) and Spanish too.
<highvoltage> do you speak any other language, other than legalese and engrish?
<mdke> italian
<mdke> my english is better tho
<highvoltage> i would've never guessed :)
<highvoltage> are there many italian speaking people in london?
<mdke> lots of italians :)
<mdke> not a lot of italian speaking english people tho
<spayne> mdke, ping
<mdke> hi
<spayne> mdke: i'm redoing the Beagle documentation on the Wiki
<mdke> right
<spayne> mdke: and i'm gonna remove the Warty and Hoary pages, how do i check if there are any links to those pages?
<mdke> you read the WikiGuide
<mdke> i'm never gonna get tired of saying that to you
<mdke> test me!
<spayne> :)
<mdke> why would you remove the warty and hoary pages?
<spayne> they use 'evil' methods
<spayne> i.e. broken backports
<mdke> are there better methods?
<spayne> well, i could just do a new Beagle page with links to those
<mdke> it's possible that people will still run hoary and want beagle i guess
<spayne> they are severly outdated
<mdke> ok, well either update em or nuke em I suppose
<mdke> but bear in mind not everything is using breezy
<spayne> well
<spayne> Hoary is OK i suppose
<spayne> but Warty is way out of date
<highvoltage> Warty is stil supported, though.
<spayne> i know but it talks about compiling from CVS
<spayne> and CVS requires stuff more modern than Breezy
<mdke> so update it
<highvoltage> sorry, just jumping in... i just think that it's important to keep information of supported distro's in the docs.
<mdke> me too
<spayne> but there is no way Beagle will run on Warty
<spayne> a.) it requires Mono 1.1.7 - warty has a 1.0.x release
<highvoltage> i think you should just mention on the page that it won't run on warty, and why.
<mdke> yeap
<spayne> will do
<spayne> does everyone have these problems
<spayne> or just me :)
<mdke> which problems?
<spayne> about what to do with older packages
<spayne> whether to redirect, destory or put a warning in
<spayne> i feel hopeless :(
<mdke> make one page for Beagle with information for all versions
<mdke> note that it won't run on warty etc
<spayne> one step ahead of yoi
<spayne> like i did for iFolder, Hula....
<mdke> spayne, i wanted to ask about Hula
<spayne> go
<mdke> spayne, is the guide on the Hula wiki for Ubuntu being updated?
<mdke> (installation guide)
<mdke> it wouldn't make sense for us to have an installation guide on the Ubuntu wiki if it is
<spayne> no, i've put a link in
<spayne> i maintain both
<mdke> the link was there, I created the page ;)
<spayne> http://www.hula-project.org/Ubuntu
<spayne> created what page?
<mdke> the first Hula page on wiki.u.c
<spayne> oh right :)
<mdke> anyhow, it's best to just maintain one
<spayne> no, i did all the documentation on the Hula Wiki
<spayne> i know - that is the plan
<spayne> i asked the Hula community
<mdke> have a link from the Ubuntu wiki to the Hula one
<spayne> i was doing it the other way
<spayne> look at that page
<mdke> vice versa works too
<spayne> sorry, i'm a bit stressed atm
<spayne> playing ET later
<spayne> my server just crashed and died
<spayne> i'm trying to do this Beagle crap
<spayne> argh! help!
<mdke> hi jenda 
<jenda> hello
<jenda> not mech going on here :)
<jenda> *much
<mdke> true
<mdke> doc.u.c and help.u.c websites going down for about 10 minutes
<mdke> as if anyone cares :D
<mdke> server back up again
<jenda> mdke: I care I care! I really do!
<mdke> yuh
<mdke> convincing
<jenda> Well... maybe I don't.
<jenda> :)
<mdke> highvoltage, omg this is insanely difficult, are you familiar with mod_fastcgi?
<Belutz> mdke, for the sources.list in the faqguide (for upgrading ubuntu) i should keep the sources.list in english right?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> if that is what users have
<Belutz> ok mdke, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2005-11-05
<Madpilot> the--dud: ping
<Madpilot> the--dud: are you writing those big Command Line articles on the wiki?
<robitaille> Madpilot,  do you a good web site with public domain pictures?  I'm looking for a good picture of a duck to use on planet.u.c
<robitaille> s/you/you know/
<Madpilot> rob^: wiki commons?
<Madpilot> robitaille: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Duck
<Madpilot> but Dapper Drake is supposed to be a dragon, not a duck! ;)
<robitaille> the poll on the fridge indicates otherwise :)
<Madpilot> robitaille: if it has to be a duck, let's make it a cool looking duck: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Drake_Mandarin_Ducks.jpg
<robitaille> thanks for the link;  I always forget about  that one.
<mpt> also http://sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=search&txt=duck&w=1
<the--dud> Madpilot, that would be me yes
<Madpilot> http://sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=view&id=396319&DREAMID=1040deacb0cc676694f7a6bda804da73
<Madpilot> the--dud: looks like it'll be a load of work!
<Madpilot> the--dud: I was wondering where your work leaves BasicCommands?
<sladen> we're going to end up with a fire-breathing duck at this point
<the--dud> Madpilot, not sure I understand you...
<Madpilot> the--dud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicCommands
<Madpilot> we could go for the awww-cute factor: http://sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=view&id=357826
<the--dud> ah ok, well its a slightly different angle and it goes a bit deeper. I hope
<Madpilot> the--dud: when you've mostly finished your articles, maybe we should stick a link on the bottom of BasicCommands - for a more in-depth view, go here...
<the--dud> excellent idea :) I've forked it into two parts, hoping to get the basic part done early next week
<Madpilot> much cooler drake than some ducks: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ljubljana_dragon.JPG
<jsgotangco> hi ho
<mdke> hello
<mdke> :/
<jsgotangco> mmm?
* mdke is up at 5
<mdke> i had a bad dream
<jsgotangco> whoa
<mdke> then I just heard a man screaming as if hurt
<mdke> i'm freaked out :)
<jsgotangco> helloween night
<mdke> i went out to look
<mdke> but no one was around
<jsgotangco> and you're alone in the dark...
<mdke> heh
<mdke> no i have lights
<jsgotangco> mm..much better
<jsgotangco> when i was in college i digged that kind of stuff
<mdke> but not sleep
<jsgotangco> mdke: does gnome have a speech synthesizer?
<mdke> dunno
<jsgotangco> im trying to make the machine speak to me
<jsgotangco> like this chat for example
<mdke> cool
<jsgotangco> i just don't know if most kde apps integrate with kttsd
* mdke goes back to sleep
<highvoltage> mdke: any luck with fastcgi?
<mdke> no it crashed on me whenever a client connected
<mdke> but henrik managed to get one up
<highvoltage> oh, cool. sleep well then :)
<mdke> i still wanna succeed at some stage
<mdke> zzz
<jsgotangco> what does fastcgi do?
<highvoltage> my guess would be that it provides a cgi interface for webpages, and to do it fast :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> im still trying to use dasher for my text input
<jsgotangco> but somehow what i type won't move to firefox
<jsgotangco> ahh i get it now
<jsgotangco> its like that 
<jsgotangco> ahhh!!!
<highvoltage> it's like that, it's just the way it is.
<jsgotangco> hehe its because of dasher
* jsgotangco wonder what henrik uses 
<jsgotangco> perhaps something similar 
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> i got to type that in dasher
<jsgotangco> hey Burglaptop 
<Burglaptop> salut jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> how's ubz?
<Burglaptop> good
<Burglaptop> just going to sleep now about going out to drink with jbailey 
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> uphold the dokteam kause!
<Burglaptop> I will try
<Burglaptop> night
<robitaille> so Burgundavia  how is Montreal?
<Burgundavia> god
<Burgundavia> good, even
<robitaille> I'm a bit jealous :)
<robitaille> ah well, tonight I'll do trick and treats with the kids
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> you going to be around in 2 1/2 hours?
<Burgundavia> helpful help bof is happening then
<robitaille> Burgundavia,  maybe.  i'm at work all day long, with on and off irc access
<Burgundavia> ok
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: evaluate gnome user guide?
<jsgotangco> documentation marketing?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, new specs, there is going to be a post to the list about them soon
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> documentation marketing is interesting though
<Burgundavia> there are 4 new ones
<mdke> who wrote em?
<mdke> ah you
<mdke> i think we market are marketing them already
<mdke> doc/help.u.c was posted to the fridge, I posted on the forums about them too
<jsgotangco> well yeah
<mdke> and sounder/ubuntu-users
<mdke> and we can keep doing that
<jsgotangco> i think corey is thinking more outside the ubuntu realm, say lwn
<mdke> jsgotangco, i was just going on what it says in the spec
<jsgotangco> i've seen my annoucement of the styleguide in lwn before
<jsgotangco> don't get me wrong but our output still needs some more marketing love imo
<mdke> sure
<mdke> i was just pointing out that what is said in the spec under "implementation" is already the current practise
<Burgundavia> hello all
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia - having fun in Montreal?
<Burgundavia> indded
<Madpilot> too much beer, too much geekery, not enough sleep, right?
<Burgundavia> yep
#ubuntu-doc 2005-11-06
<Burgundavia> Kinnison, editing the revu page to add myself as drafter, it don't work
<Mez> Burgundavia, I think siretart needs to do that for you
<Burgundavia> right
<Mez> Burgundavia, he's done
<Burgundavia> Mez, cheers
<rob^> hi corey_ 
<corey_> salut rob^ 
* rob^ learns how to use ratpoison
<rob^> grr @ irssi
<linuxboy> thats not annoying
<mdke> Mez, take this channel out of ajoin until you sort out your connection issues plskthx
<mdke> Mez!
<Mez> mdke!
<linuxboy> dude
<linuxboy> 15:26   >>> Mez!n=Mez@66.103.220.215
<linuxboy> 15:29   <   Mez!n=Mez@66.103.220.215 [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 
<linuxboy> stop doing that
<mdke> Mez, please take this channel out of ajoin until you have fixed any connectivity problems
<mdke> i would also advise you to take the other channels out
<mdke> like -devel
<mdke> Mez, you've joined and left about 20 times
<Mez> mdke: it wa while i was at breakfast
<Mez> the TELUS netowrk broked for me
<Mez> it's fine for now
<mdke> it's not, because you just did it now
<mdke> 1 minute ago
<linuxboy> mdke: but he has stayed here for a while... like 2 minutes
<mdke> ok
<Mez> 12 mins according to this
<linuxboy> yeah
<mdke> if it is ok from now, cool
<Mez> yeah
<mdke> otherwise, take us out of ajoin
<Mez> well the telus network seems to be working sdown here
<Mez> just not in my room
<Mez> dont worry I've been bitched at about it in person
<mdke> ok
<mdke> if it's a problem and you aren't around, don't be offended if we just ban you until it's sorted
<Mez> no, I wont be
<Mez> :D
<mdke> cool
<mdke> have fun
<Mez> It happened in #kubuntu and #ubuntu
<mdke> you should irc from a server to stop that from happening
<Mez> meh
<linuxboy> kbye
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-30
<jenda> mdke: ping
<jenda> mdke: I'd like the jabber room at "http://www.ubuntu.com/support/local"
<jenda> removed. The room has had trouble with the administrator and moved to another server. We can't have them change around all the time, so it shouldn't be there at all.
<jenda> and the link on the IRC should be changed to http://wiki.ubuntu.cz/IRC
<jenda> thanks
<LjL> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats#head-e25afe1552d3a818f60e64143931b2d8e0522267 <- if someone could have a look, packages "totem-gstreamer-firefox-plugin" and "totem-xine-firefox-plugin" are mentioned in that paragraph, but they're not available in my Edgy (nor does Ubotu have them listed for Edgy, only for Dapper). an "apt-cache show <either-of-them>" results in being back to a shell prompt. I see in #ubuntu that people
<LjL> appear to be recommending the "mozilla-mplayer" package instead.
<LjL> Please check if that howto might have to be updated.
<sladen> Burgwork: ah, sorry I was trying to complete on c<tab>
<Burgwork> sladen: ah
<sladen> Burgwork: I got the 404 list back from Spads  http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/doc/help.404.txt
<sladen> Burgwork: he's dealt with the top one by dropping a favicon in
<Burgwork> mdke is the person to talk to about our server
<sladen> Burgwork: all the rest are from ~36hours worth;  anything with more than one hit is likely linked on the web and could do with redirects
<sladen> mdke: ^^
<sladen> eg. I think /starterguide -> /ubuntu/desktopguide
<mdke> sladen: hi
<mdke> jenda: ok
<jenda> mdke: thx
<jenda> For now, we will only have the IRC channel linked, but in the future, since the community wants a Jabber room, we might open up an official one at ubuntu.cz
<Burgwork> jenda: irc can link to jabber. #inkscape has a bridge
<jenda> I know, I used to hang out in the channel to spy on that feature.
<jenda> We even had it for a while
<jenda> But the admin of the current jabber room (in fact, even of the old one, formerly) is a rogue :(
<jenda> He won't accept the CoC, nor will he accept a bridge bot.
<jenda> :/
<jenda> And yet, they have about 15 people in there permanently, which is more than I can say for the IRC channel.
<mdke> sladen: most of them are likely to be broken links within the help site itself. Some can be fixed, by adding the missing files, some can't. As for those which are due to broken links on the internet, only a few are due to the page having moved, many are likely to be simply erroneous links, I don't think we should be reactive about that
<mdke> the favicon was clearly an issue, we had a bug about it
<mdke> some of the other significant ones are errors in the page formatting/css
<mdke> I'll save that list though, it will be useful for debugging those problems
<nixternal> hey jenda, that bridge is nothing more than a mindless bot..i used to host one years back between a couple of gaming networks i used to participate in
<jenda> i know, we had it for a while.
<jenda> thx for the suggestions, though ;)
<nixternal> naddaprob
<mdke> jenda: done
<jenda> thanks again :)
<nixternal> mdke: is there some translating or something to do?  i am missing the anxious feeling of a schedule, and work...this break is killing me ;)
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> I don't think so
<dsas> mdke: You asked me to remind you to include the "software sources" patch, once edgy branched...
<mdke> dsas: nice remembering.
<mdke> thanks!
<mdke> dsas: done!
<mdke> dsas: not sure if you caught that, but it's done
<dsas> mdke: No I didn't..spotty connection. But thanks
<sladen> mdke: that list is filtered to all cases of two unique hits to the same 404 URL
<sladen> mdke: yes, the /usr/share/KDE ones look like that's the documentation
<sladen> mdke: I think all the ones that start  /startguide/  probably been RedirectMatching to /ubuntu/desktopguide (at a guess)
<jjesse> are there a lot of kubuntu docs that link that way? and should look differently?
<foxhound31> hello just here for a chat about ubuntu
<foxhound31> saw the website and liked the philosophy
<Burgwork> foxhound31: welcome
<foxhound31> how are you
<Burgwork> good, but busy
<foxhound31> yeah I've always believed computing should be for evryone
<foxhound31> so its nice to see a distro that thinks the same way
<foxhound31> i'm studying for my network degree and also doing it support for a charity to get experience
<foxhound31> what sort of work are you doing Burgwork 
<Burgwork> sales. I work for Userful, who sell multiseat Linux
<foxhound31> sounds good
<foxhound31> couldnt sell water in the desrt
<foxhound31> desert
<foxhound31> myself
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-31
<foxhound31> yeah at the moment
<foxhound31> i'm actually trying to decide between ubuntu and suse
<jjesse> ubuntu of course :)
<foxhound31> cos most of all i have decided to dump my windows cos dont need it for anything anymore
<Burgwork> we are kind of biased here
<foxhound31> indeed :)
<foxhound31> if i want a os for myself then its ubuntu
<foxhound31> but suse will make inroads into business desktops in the future
<foxhound31> so it might be handy to know it for work
<foxhound31> can you do an internet install in ubuntu?
<Burgwork> yes
<foxhound31> great
<Burgwork> you can also kickstart it
<Burgwork> there is a team in ubuntu to make our centralized management better
<foxhound31> its picked up market share a lot lately is that true?
<Burgwork> yes
<foxhound31> was looking at wine app databse
<foxhound31> and taking the stats by distro
<foxhound31> ubuntu was out near the top
<foxhound31> so looks that way
<foxhound31> was also suprised how many games run in wine without anyform of winex cedega
<Burgwork> different markets need different things
<Burgwork> the gaming market is a giant red herring
<Burgwork> enterprise desktops are far more interesting
<foxhound31> think so
<foxhound31> plus my belief is that longterm the PC wont be a games platform anymore
<foxhound31> the companies want a secure platform that they can be sure wont be warezed
<foxhound31> and games ripped off
<foxhound31> if your in europe Burgwork which country are you in
<Burgwork> canada
<foxhound31> well not exactley in europe but not exactley non european either
<foxhound31> Canada still has a few european parts to its character
<foxhound31> I'm in Edinburgh
<foxhound31> the one in Scotland
<foxhound31> the real one
<Burgwork> canada is increasingly european is feel
<foxhound31> saw the news from Nova Scotia once
<foxhound31> it was like hearing the Scottish news wth a Canadian accent
<foxhound31> very strange great tho
<foxhound31> yeah will go with ubuntu but get the kde version
<foxhound31> see you
<foxhound31> thanks
<LaserJock> that was ... interesting
<nixternal> [17:42:53]  <foxhound31> yeah will go with ubuntu but get the kde version
<nixternal> WOOHOO
<nixternal> he is super smart!
<Burgwork> blah
<nixternal> gahahaha
<Burgwork> another one down the drain
<Burgwork> he seemed to promising
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> woohoo...amarok so kicks arse..they now have the magnatune setup...so you can purchases DRM-free music!!!
<LaserJock> Burgwork: have you ever tried Mambo or Joomla?
<Burgwork> neither
<nixternal> LaserJock: they were both garbage when i first messed with them a few months back
<nixternal> unfortunately, i prefer drupal over them
<LaserJock> well, they seem really blingy
<LaserJock> what I'd really like is web-based project management for personal use
<LaserJock> dotproject seems to be a bit overkill
<Burgwork> LaserJock: activeCollab
<Burgwork> it rocks
<LaserJock> but I've got PHP4 :(
<Burgwork> php5 is supported
<Burgwork> 4 is not
<Burgwork> dump that 4 crap
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> Burgwork: is it a lot better then dotproject?
<Burgwork> tons
<Burgwork> dotproject is a giant bloated piece of crap
<dsas> LaserJock: It's not open source but http://www.backpackit.com/ is supposed to be pretty good.
<jjesse_> we use dotProject at work and i don't like it at all
<Burgwork> activeCollab is open source backpack
<LaserJock> I more or less just want: calendar/wiki or notes/task tracking
<LaserJock> I just need to organize my Ubuntu work better
<Burgwork> for that, I would use tomboy
<LaserJock> but I work from multiple machines
<Burgwork> and the ubuntu wiki
<Burgwork> why not the main ubuntu wiki?
<jjesse_> tomboy is included in edgy right now isn't it
<Burgwork> yes, yes it is
<LaserJock> well, the ubuntu wiki isn't really that ideal
<LaserJock> I'd also probably use it for work too
<Burgwork> honestly, I use tomboy
<Burgwork> I need to play with conduit
<nixternal> LaserJock: just setup a personal mediawiki server or what not
<Burgwork> mediawiki is pretty heavy
<dsas> I think tomboy is planned to get sharing one day...
<Burgwork> coming
<Burgwork> but conduit can give you it now
<LaserJock> nixternal: yeah, the hosting place for laserjock.us only has tikiwiki (huge) and phpwiki by defailt
<nixternal> Emacs Wiki
<nixternal> ;(
<LaserJock> I might just try phpwiki to start with
<nixternal> ;) rather
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I've done that in the past
<LaserJock> but I work on like 4 different machines
<LaserJock> it's tough to keep things coordinated
<dsas> Personally I use pen and paper still, with a calendar for appointments/deadlines.
<LaserJock> heh, well if that worked for me I'd already be doing it. no matter what though I need to get more disciplined with it
<nixternal> [18:45:18]  <dsas> Personally I use pen and paper still, with a calendar for appointments/deadlines
<nixternal> so do i, and then input it later
<jjesse_> grin i use OneNote for most of my stuff
<nixternal> omg
<nixternal> jjesse_ is a traitor!
<jjesse_> grin 
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> poor jjesse_ 
<nixternal> i will admit, OneNote is super nice
<jjesse_> i still have to use windows as my primary OS, need access to SQL Site management and Visual Studio
<jjesse_> unless SQL management studio 2005 can be run under win/
<jjesse_> wine?
<Burgwork> jjesse_: you need a new job
<jjesse_> Burgwork: no i like my job
<nixternal> Burgwork: you read Jono's LoCo meeting email wrong, 10pm not 10am, so that would be 2pm your time
<nixternal> you seen 10, and though 10:00 and not 22:00 more than likely
<jjesse_> did everyone leave?
<pygi> nop
<dsas> not yet.
<jjesse_> just got reall quiet :)
<pygi> jjesse_: considering it's almost 3 AM ... :P
<jjesse_> i figured everyone was in bed :)
<jjesse_> hardly any doc team members in my time zone
<jjesse_> eastern
<LaserJock> jjesse_: no,  but I'm in Pacific :p
<Williamts99> Hello, I created a page called HowToBootFromCD but realized that it would be better to name it HowtoBootFromCd so that it will link easy from the wiki, what is the best way to go about changing this?
<Williamts99> Should I recreate the page and then just delete and link the older page, or is there someone that can rename it, and then link the older page, or delete it?
<jjesse_> umm there is someone, but it might be just easier for you to clean it up
<Williamts99> Understood, thank you.
<LaserJock> Williamts99: well, I don't think it will really matter
<LaserJock> I think HowToBootFromCD should link as easily as HowToBootFromCd
<Williamts99> I thought that while creating the page, but I just tried to link to it from another page, but when I preview my changes it doesn't want to automatically create the link.
<LaserJock> hmm, that's odd
<Williamts99> But if I change the D in CD to a lowercase d it links just fine.
<LaserJock> although I always use ["HowToBootFromCD"]  style anyway
<Williamts99> Thank you, I am new to creating/editing pages and I didn't even think of that, that would be a lot easier to just link it that way, and it won't create 'clutter'
<Williamts99> well the clutter of an extra page sitting around doing nothing :-)
<nixternal> ahh, ya the old, 2 caps in a row kills wiki link
<Williamts99> What do you think nixternal?  Should I recreate the page with a name that will be eaiser linked to in the future, or leave it the way it is and require the use of ["HowToBootFromCD"]  to link to it?
<nixternal> leave it the way it is and just do ["HowToBootFromCD"] 
<Williamts99> Also, as my first page, what do you all think of it?
* nixternal looks
<nixternal> how did you do thos bios screenies?
<Williamts99> The easiest way is to use a camera to take pictures of them, or you can use the BIOS inside of vmware and do a printscreen
<nixternal> i never noticed the bios pop up in vmware..i will have to look at that
<nixternal> thats definitely a great start there
<nixternal> hopefully people will add different bios setups in there and expand on it now
<Williamts99> When you first start VMware, it is F2 to get into the 'bios'
<nixternal> that is very important documentation that the Chicago LoCo has been working on creating as well
<nixternal> cool..thanks for that pointer
<Williamts99> No problem, I wonder if there is a way to simulate another BIOS, that would be great because that is about the best quality screenshots of the bios that you can get.
<nixternal> i will see what i can do...i usually grab really good screenshots, however, i never use jpg, only png, that way you don't loose colors causing the pixelation and blur
<jroes> have you guys ever been able to paste in VMWare btw?
<nixternal> jroes: you need to install vmware tools
<nixternal> like copy from outside of vmware, and paste into vmware?
<nixternal> and vice versa?
<jroes> yeah
<jroes> I didn't know I had to install vmware tools, guess that would explain it :)
<nixternal> ya, once vmware is up and running with the operating system, goto the VM tab and Install Vmware Tools
<nixternal> at least thats how it is done with VMWare server
<nixternal> i love making a preference change in the wiki..it only takes 4 minutes to save one checkbox
<jroes> lol
<Williamts99> Thanks for that tip, they do look a lot better as png, I just used that on CdIntegrityCheck and the png looks a lot better
<nixternal> hehe, yes they do
<LaserJock> Burgwork: are all the existing Tomboy plugins included in the Ubuntu package or are there others floating about?
<LaserJock> I couldn't find any plugin info the their website
<nixternal> wth..why are Tomboy Plugins .dll files?
<LaserJock> because it's C# silly
<LaserJock> or Mono or however you want to put it
<nixternal> so is KDE, but there aren't any DLL files there
<nixternal> mono maybe, since i know nothing about it
<LaserJock> C# not C++
<nixternal> just noticed that #
<Madpilot> cool, help.ubuntu.com finally has a favicon
<LaserJock> Burgwork: you still around?
<Madpilot> LaserJock, he's usually out on Monday nights
<LaserJock> silly man
<LaserJock> I had a tomboy question for him
<Madpilot> what sort of tomboy question?
<LaserJock> well, I copies some of the .notes files from my other compute
<LaserJock> but they don't show up
<LaserJock> I wondered if that works
<Madpilot> LaserJock, they don't show up when you drop them in ~/.tomboy?
<LaserJock> Madpilot: no
<Madpilot> odd
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> I had to remove Tomboy from the panel and re add it
<Madpilot> that seems like a bit of a hack to force Tomboy to refresh
<LaserJock> well, I didn't see ano ption torefresh
<LaserJock> ah, speak of the devil
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: hmm?
<Burgundavia> you guys dicussing me?
<LaserJock> I was going to ask you a Tomboy question
<Burgundavia> shoot
<LaserJock> I got home and scp'ed my .notes from work to ~/.tomboy/
<LaserJock> but they didn't immediatly show up
<LaserJock> I had to remove tomboy from the panel and readd it
<LaserJock> is there an easier way to refresh it?
<Burgundavia> hmm, no idea
<Burgundavia> there is some network tomboy stuff coming
<LaserJock> well, previously I didn't use tomboy because I was using OS X a lot on my iMac
<LaserJock> but I've got it dual booting with edgy right now
<LaserJock> so I'm all Ubuntu all day long
<Burgundavia> cool
<LaserJock> it is nice
<Burgundavia> I have never done what you have done, so I cannot tell you
<LaserJock> I liked OS X fine, much better then Windows
<LaserJock> but the shear amount of useful software in Ubuntu is great
<LaserJock> and things do "Just Work"
<Burgundavia> I don't know how I could not use tomboy
<LaserJock> well, there are some similar apps for OS X
<LaserJock> but none as simple and easy to use
<Burgundavia> f-spot is another app very much liek that
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I tried it not long ago
<LaserJock> I used it to show my inlaws pics over the weekend
<Burgundavia> ok, this new epiphany is crashing for me constantly
<Burgundavia> I suspect the new Firefox
<LaserJock> new as in?
<Burgundavia> edgy new, 2.0
<LaserJock> does it happen on particular sites?
* mdke mornings
<Burgundavia> mdke: morning
<Burgundavia> sleepy time for me
<mdke> good night
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: the wiki lifecycle page is a good start still
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> please flesh out further
<Burgundavia> I want to move some point this week
<jsgotangco> imho a real annoucement should at least have a webpage saying what to do next
<jsgotangco> if you're in the EOL loop
<Burgundavia> yes
<LaserJock> lay down and die
<LaserJock> it's the end of the road
<Burgundavia> well, night
<Burgundavia> truly this time
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: how's it going?
<LaserJock> bah, it's going I suppose
<jsgotangco> ok i'll just let you bee
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> it's no problem
<LaserJock> but lots of deadlines, if you know what I mean
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: how are you doing?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: pretty busy myself at new work too, but its the start of the holiday so i have 4 days off starting tomorrow and will be catching up on virtual work
<nixternal> http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-edgy-upgrade-common-problems-with-solutions.html
<nixternal> Jonathan Carter suggested we do something similar in a blog post ^^ and ideas?
<mdke> nixternal: you could add things to the current documentation
<nixternal> current wiki docs is what i was going to attack..i wrote the author and email asking permission to utilize his responses
<mdke> sounds good
<Ubugtu> New bug: #69576 in ubuntu-docs "Wrong alignment and bidi problems in Hebrew system help" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69576
#ubuntu-doc 2006-11-01
* jsgotangco is thinking he should retire from ubuntu for a while and explore the other side of the moon
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> and what side of the moon would that be?
<nixternal> the darkside?
<Plug> THE DARK SIDE!
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> i got you by 2 seconds Plug
<Plug> ah, but you forget I'm at least 18 hours ahead of you anyway
<nixternal> true
<jsgotangco> nixternal: im having  a hard time balancing things lately
<nixternal> 2 seconds lag
<nixternal> jsgotangco: take a break then..nothing wrong with that...get stuff situated...only you know what you can do though ;)
<jsgotangco> and prepare for vista
<jsgotangco> muhahaha
<nixternal> you are stil
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> i was going to say something nice, but now i won't
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> i told you about the flyer that Microsoft sent Linux people in the Chicago area right?
<jsgotangco> i will most likely continue contributing but in a very discreet space, bluetooth and PDAs
<nixternal> hehe, go figure, you are addicted
<jsgotangco> its something i know very well
<jsgotangco> heh
<nixternal> i can help along with PDA, as I have an old school one, but im sure that doesn't count
<nixternal> actually..it is only like 4 years old ;)
<jsgotangco> if its USB it counts
<nixternal> it is usb
<nixternal> it works like a champ with Kontact
<nixternal> i just need to port email and i will be good
<jsgotangco> i actually got my 3G connection running in my laptop via bluetooth
<jsgotangco> its pretty hackish
<jsgotangco> but imagine if you have an evdo account with verizon and use that with your laptop
<nixternal> ya, i need some bluetooth toys
<nixternal> you know..i could very well have some connections with some manufacturers still from my days as a hardware reviewer..maybe i can get a couple of companies to send me some toys so i can test them with Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> nixternal: that would be great, the bluez stack is pretty stable and covers much everything though
<nixternal> well, i have heard of people having issues with their bluetooth mice
<jsgotangco> yeah it would be nice to test a lot of bt HID
* mdke moins
* rob burps
<mdke> outrageous
<rob> totally.
<Burgundavia> hey rob, mdke
<rob> hiya Burgundavia, mdke 
<mpt> Bring it on, Ubugtu 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #69650 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging Guide says "you a shell script"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69650
<LjL> please check the changes i made to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/CommandLine  -  i've seen many users get version mismatches due to enabling universe/multiverse in the "dapper" (or "edgy") repository, but not doing the same in the -updates and -security repositories. (crimsun in particular, see this, since we were talking about it)
<LjL> i would hope enabling graphically in Synaptic or whatever takes care of this automatically, as well
<Burgwork> LjL: looks good. Two comments: you have a lot of whitespace just before the next header
<Burgwork> the other is that I would remove the two paragraph intro on repos
<Burgwork> that shoudl go on the partent
<Burgwork> oh, and recommend the people use the graphical method, if they can
<LjL> Burgwork, the only part i changed is the "Adding the Universe and Multiverse Repositories" paragraph" - but ok, i'll see if i can shorten the intro, since there's already a dedicated page
<LjL> Burgwork, see if it looks better now
<Burgwork> LjL: looks good
<mdke> Burgwork: do you already do some doc-list moderation?
<LaserJock> how many moderators do we have?
<LaserJock> I thought it was more then just jerome
<LaserJock> but maybe I'm mistaken
<mdke> LaserJock: I have the admin password, and I think Burg does too
<Burgwork> mdke: no, no I don't
<mdke> ah
<nixternal> i can only imagine the doc list..i do chicago and marketing lists now..if help is needed though, i can step up and help
<Burgwork> I will tak eit
<nixternal> good, Burgwork said he would do it
<mdke> I don't have much time for list moderation, if someone else is up for it, that's be good
* nixternal sits back down
<Burgwork> nixternal: no, you are getting it as well
<nixternal> lol
<Burgwork> we need more than one person
<nixternal> i can help you out 
<Burgwork> given I already admin/moderate -users,-devel,-news, -ca and -directory
* mdke nods at both
<mdke> I'll set it up
<mdke> I'll put you down as admins, can't be bothered with the separate moderator business. No funny stuff!
<nixternal> lol
<mdke> shall I use your LP preferred email addresses?
<nixternal> yes
<mdke> hmm, nixternal - your LP preferred email address is your @ubuntu.com address, does that work? I thought that wasn't possible
<nixternal> that works
<nixternal> i use it for everything "Ubuntu" related, on all the lists
<mdke> must be a new feature
<LaserJock> how do you remove a wiki page by URL? is it ?action=delete ?
<nixternal> i have been doing it that way i think since june maybe
<mdke> LaserJock: DeletePage I think
<nixternal> LaserJock: using lynx?
<LaserJock> mdke: with ?action= ?
<mdke> yes
<LaserJock> cool
<mdke> nixternal: in the old days the LP preferred email address was used for the *target* of the redirect, so setting it as @ubuntu.com didn't work... guess they fixed that :)
* LaserJock is on a MOTU wiki rampage today
<nixternal> ahhh
<mdke> Burgwork: should I use your preferred LP email for the ML?
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> or corey.burger@ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> how do they do the redirects now? manually?
<mdke> I'll mail the passwords
<nixternal> #redirect WikiPage/Subpage
<nixternal> o
<nixternal> or
<LaserJock> no, for LP
<nixternal> #refresh 0 http://url
<nixternal> oh
<mdke> LaserJock: no idea. Probably still in LP, but more sophisticated
<LaserJock> actually, I don't think so
<LaserJock> because I changed my preferred email
<LaserJock> and I had to do an RT ticket to get it to actually work for the redirect
<nixternal> all i did was add the ubuntu.com one, and then confirm it
<nixternal> then set it to "default" i believe
<mdke> LaserJock: using LP doesn't mean that it works automatically
<LaserJock> heh
<mdke> anyway, who knows
<Burgwork> yay! FUD http://www.platinax.co.uk/news/01-11-2006/linux-distros-ubuntu-trustix-and-suse-accused-of-email-spam/
<nixternal> are people that stupid that they can't unsubscribe?
<nixternal> ;)
<LaserJock> what the heck?
<nixternal> i had problems myself getting back to my page where i can unsubscribe
<nixternal> there is no direct links to do so
<nixternal> but, if you are like me, and keep your registration emails, there is a link in there to do so ;)
<LaserJock> in the original email there is
<nixternal> i have a "Registrations" mail folder just for those
<LaserJock> lists.ubuntu.com also has it
<LaserJock> it's much harder to subscribe to the lists in the first place
<nixternal> plus you can admin your setting via email as well
* mdke hugs newsgroups
<nixternal> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
<nixternal> holy dumbarses...look at the bottom
<nixternal> UNSUBSCRIBE BUTTON
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> comment 4 sets them straight..that was just a post to bring attention to that website i think
<nixternal> actually, Collin is comment 4
<Burgwork> I just posted my comment
<nixternal> are you Yock?
<Burgwork> no, the very last one
<Burgwork> the man is whacked
<nixternal> Yock is the very last one for me
* nixternal tries yet another refresh
<LaserJock> me too
<LaserJock> maybe Corey got moderated ;-)
<nixternal> haha, he got owned that fast?
<Burgwork> oh god I hate flash
<nixternal> i would say the list edits were rather quick, as the bounces are coming already ;)
<nixternal> go figure..that same guy on the chicago site, remove him to stop those bounces..he gave up on that account i think..i banned him on the chicago list
<nixternal> would be nice if i could log in to moderate the list ;)
<mdke> nixternal: bounces/
<mdke> ?
<nixternal> ya, they are the messages that bounce back because someones inbox is full
<mdke> shit, let's turn that off
<nixternal> well, don't turn off bounces, remove that guy..he is gone anyways
<nixternal> he is from chicago
<nixternal> bounces can be good from a spam standpoint as well
<mdke> no, bounces suck
<nixternal> lol
<mdke> it still unsubscribes them automatically after a while anyway, right?
* mdke checks, yeah
<nixternal> it is supposed to, but it doesn't
<nixternal> those bounces from that guy have been occurring for a couple of months now
<mdke> it has a setting to specify how many bounces before you're out
<nixternal> i have set that as well with the ubuntu-us-chicago list, and they were still occurring..i just shut it off..i will see what effect that has..so far none
<mdke> oh well. it can keep bouncing eternally
<nixternal> mdke: i have a hack for the Kubuntu Firefox-Homepage...it is named redirect.html and does exactly as the name implies..it redirects to the /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html to fix the link breakage..it closes a bug, and i have done the packaging
<nixternal> where should i put that in the doc svn?
<mdke> that sounds like the wrong way to do it. Doesn't Riddell use symlinks?
<mdke> did you discuss it with him?
<nixternal> yes we do, but our homepage is the about kubuntu setup, and there are 4 links associated with it..the /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage loads the index.html just fine, but the other html files are 404 when using the /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
<nixternal> yes, he has the debdiff now
<mdke> fine, go ahead then
<nixternal> this will be fixed in feisty, to run like eveyrone else does, and we will create a index.html
<mdke> the whole alternatives system is pretty dodgy tbh, we have no good way to deal with derivative firefox start pages
<nixternal> yes, and i want to do the same with Kubuntu instead of using the About Kubuntu pages for a start up page
<nixternal> anywho..i will rock that out in a second...i need some food really bad
<nixternal> i think i will make me a veggie wrap ;)
<newz2000> mdke: ping - replacing help 6.06 content
<newz2000> mdke: unping
<LaserJock> has anybody been having problems with full text searchs on wiki.u.c?
<LaserJock> I can't get it to do anything
<nixternal> provide me with an example?
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=chicago+meeting+in+october&titlesearch=Titles
<nixternal> worked here, if that is what you mean
<nixternal> haha, that was title, not text ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, title works fine
<LaserJock> text gives me nothing
<LaserJock> it just sits there spinning its wheels
<nixternal> text don't even go through..it has been spin
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> heh, it worked
<LaserJock> oh, now it worked
<nixternal> just took fooooorrrrevvveer
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> at the same time ey
<LaserJock> I wonder if something was down
<LaserJock> mine was spinning for longer then yours ;-)
<nixternal> must have been
<nixternal> oh ya, well my dog could eat your dog
<LaserJock> now I get to fix my mess :/
<LaserJock> bah
#ubuntu-doc 2006-11-02
<LaserJock> man the wiki is a pain
<dthacker> Did this get replaced by another page with a list of items that needs to be cleaned? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCleanup
<Burgwork> dthacker: the help stuff moved to help.ubuntu.com/community
<dthacker> tnx, continuing to learn.....
<Burgwork> no worries
<bhuvan> Burgwork: can you approve my recent email to ubuntu-doc mailing list? looks like all emails above 40k needs approval, nice setup
<Burgwork> hmm, I don;t have the password, I don;t think
<bhuvan> hmm fine. let it wait for mdke and nixternal
<Ubugtu> New bug: #69814 in ubuntu-doc "Long-Term Support" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69814
<_nixternal> reject that bug someone, for some reason I cannot...he is looking at old docs on doc.ubuntu.com
<nixternal> Burgwork: i don't have the password either ;)
<bhuvan> nixternal: hope mdke may be able to reset your password
<nixternal> i think it is a "main" list password, because my password works fine, just not for admin stuff
<bhuvan> ok
<Burgwork> nixternal: there is a moderator and an admin password
<nixternal> of which i have neither ;)
<nixternal> what is the status of doc.ubuntu.com?
<nixternal> does that get updated anymore?
<nixternal> anyone available to discuss the ubuntuguide.org email on the list?  it seems they want their guide to be in the official docs..
<nixternal> i have 2 problems with that right now...1) they want to remain seperated, and 2) they preach automatix and easyubuntu
<nixternal> they do however, have some decent information, just that a majority of it is from the universe repos, which it seems official docs like to express the main, unless otherwise needed
<Burgundavia> oh, exciting
<Burgundavia> ubuntguide.org wants to become "official
<Burgundavia> mdke_: you around?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah, I think that's kinda interesting
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: they also want to retain complete control it sounds like
<Burgundavia> yes, which I don't like
<Burgundavia> my position would be hardline: merge or nothing
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, yes, but you're an evil SOB
<Burgundavia> no, no I am not
<Madpilot> BTW, I gave your book to Olivia today
<Burgundavia> thanks
<Burgundavia> I didn't get home from work until 10pm, so
<Burgundavia> oh, geez. ubuntuguide.org has become worse
<nixternal> im with Burgundavia on that though..although it couldn't be a complete merge, since they like automatix and what not
<Burgundavia> well, part and parcel of the merge would be they would merge into the wiki
<Burgundavia> and then we could do what we wanted
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> pick and choose, as they do have some good info for sure, that i think could definitely liven up the desktop guides a bit
<Burgundavia> yes, there is a place for a single page guide
<Burgundavia> we could create a OneGiantPage as a test
<Burgundavia> then tell the ubuntguide.org people to redirect to that page
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> good luck...because ubuntuguide.org also hosts other distro guides as well
<Burgundavia> I am certain mdke_ will be far more diplomatic than me
<nixternal> well, of lately, i have seen that aggressive side a little more
<Burgundavia> work has been bringing it out in me
<nixternal> hah, im actually talking about mdke_ on that one, you egotistical ... ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<Burgundavia> oh, rightr
<Burgundavia> there is of course, this issue
<Burgundavia> we do need more people
<Burgundavia> we just need them to see the light
<Madpilot> "we just need them to see the light"... does that mean, "We just need to light them on fire"? :P
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> no, it is ubuntu or the highway!
<Burgundavia> no, no, far from that
<Burgundavia> although that might be fun
<nixternal> well, during our last loco meeting here, we had a tech writer that is interested in helping out, if he can find the time
<Burgundavia> we almost got ubuntuguide.org
<mdke_> hmm?
<mdke_> Burgundavia: hi
<Burgundavia> mdke_: see the posting?
<mdke_> not yet
* mdke_ rubs eyes
<mdke_> Burgundavia: is your pgp key on a keyserver, I can't seem to find it with enigmail
<Burgundavia> should be
<Burgundavia> please don't encrypt
<Burgundavia> my desktop machine is currently monitor-less
<Madpilot> night all
<mdke_> can't find nixternal's either
<nixternal> mine is definitely out there on the intraweb
<mdke_> nixternal: does it have your @ubuntu.com address in it?
<nixternal> it has like 4 addresses, and yes that is one of them
<mdke_> well, enigmail doesn't find it. Oh well
<Burgundavia> no, no it doesn't
<nixternal> 2e2c0124 is my key, i just downloaded it from wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net so it is out there
<mdke_> nixternal: I don't think we should reject bug 69814, I think we should fix it. What's the problem?
<nixternal> doc.ubuntu.com is behind in updates..thats all
<nixternal> i didn't know the status behind the site, as i rarely visit it because it has always seemed outdated to me
<mdke_> we should definitely fix that. If it's behind, the reason is likely to be that something fails to build
<mdke_> hmm. It's failing to update because:
<mdke_> svn: Working copy 'trunk/build/kubuntu' is missing or not locked
<mdke_> svn: Working copy 'trunk/build/ubuntu' is missing or not locked
<mdke_> Burgundavia: ok, I've read the post now
<nixternal> is that fixable on my side?
<nixternal> nm, that is ont he server
<nixternal> just noticed the trunk/
<mdke_> nixternal: it's a long term problem we've had. I'm not sure what the answer is.
<nixternal> lovely
<nixternal> alrighty, did some moderation, im out for the night, see you in a few hours...g'nite
<mdke_> ah jono, just in time.
<jono> hey
<mdke_> good morning
<jono> morning
<mdke_> someone pointed out that chapter 4 of the book is missing, any idea?
<jono> hmmm, I know the old ch4 became an appendix
<jono> maybe the new ch4 is not in that file
<jono> I will mail debra about it
<mdke_> thanks a lot
<mdke_> they are uploaded, I'll grab the link
<mdke_> bhuvan@ubuntu.com
<mdke_> no, not that paste, *smacks computer*
<mdke_> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/book/
<jono> np
<jono> :)
* mdke_ goes to work :(
<rob> o.O
<pygi> rob: :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* #ubuntu-doc  [freenode-info]  channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
#ubuntu-doc 2006-11-03
* Mez -> bed
<wastrel> hi
<wastrel> i am making a wiki howto
<tonyyarusso> Something like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide?
<wastrel> no, i mean i'm making a howto on the wiki.  the subject is not actually wiki
<wastrel> it seems the english language has failed us again.
* wastrel curses ambiguous modifiers.
<tonyyarusso> aaah
<tonyyarusso> Sweet, what on?
<wastrel> palm pilot sync
<tonyyarusso> Never owned one, but would be useful if I did.
<wastrel> i am putting up an outline and will begin to flesh it out 
<Madpilot> wastrel, have you had a look on help.ubuntu.com/community for existing PalmPilot stuff?
<wastrel> yes i found 4 howtos, but none high-level general ones like i'm going to do
<Madpilot> any chance of convincing you to edit one (or more) of the existing ones into something better? We're trying hard not to have piles of overlapping howtos on the wiki
<wastrel> overlapping eh
<wastrel> i can edit but i don't like the titles 
<Madpilot> create a new page w/ a good title, take the best of the existing ones, then redirect the older ones to the new combined page
<wastrel> that i can do
<wastrel> Is there a convention for titles  FooHowto or  FooHowTo  ?
<Madpilot> ideally, leave the HowTo out - just FooSomething. It's on the help wiki, it's safe to assume it's a Howto of sorts
<wastrel> ok
<nixternal> TheRealEasyUbuntu <- that is my next one Im working on
<tonyyarusso> Simpler than EasyMac!
<tonyyarusso> ...I just realized that could refer to the computers as well as the food (my original intention)
<nixternal> i will put the entire command on one line
<nixternal> the worlds largest single line hack
<tonyyarusso> Then alias it by default to "gimmeallthegoodstuff"
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> and my way will guarantee that you will not bork your upgrades like this so called 3rd party applications..which they aren't, they are mearly poorly written ready to break scripts ;)
<nixternal> i know there is an easy ubuntu person in here too..i can't wait for them to read ^^
<PenguinistaKC> Silly newbie question: I would like to edit the SSHHowto in the Community Wiki to add instructions for using X over SSH and for using ssh_add when starting a KDE session. Do I need to send an e-mail to the docteam list when that is completed?
<PenguinistaKC> The page is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto.
<tonyyarusso> PenguinistaKC: When you edit a wiki page certain people will be e-mailed automatically.  (In fact, you can subscribe to any page you like as well)
<PenguinistaKC> Cool, thanks.
<tonyyarusso> Now I wonder who the insane people are who are subscribed to the whole wiki
<wastrel> hi
<Madpilot> tonyyarusso, well, they're insane, for starters ;)
<tonyyarusso> Not like anyone we know I'm sure..
<CarlF1> what is the right way to create a link on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlKarsten to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpdatingADeb
<CarlF1> used to be just UpdatingADeb but that broke when half of wiki became help 
<Burgwork> CarlFK: just link it
<nixternal> Seveas: you are sick dude, chicken coke smoothie...that is a great way to start the morning ! ;)
<Seveas> nixternal, :D
<nixternal> im heeding the warning on that one...just doesn't even look right
<LaserJock> Burgwork:  hmm, interesting little convo over in -devel
<Burgwork> LaserJock: yay! ubuntuguide!
* Burgwork stabs himself harder
<LaserJock> not that the wiki is a ton better
<LaserJock> but it's got more eyes
<LaserJock> looking over it
<Burgwork> yes, much more
#ubuntu-doc 2006-11-04
<wastrel> aloha
<nixternal> aloha from the nyc ey ;)
<wastrel> heh i went to college in maine and there was a hawaiian student
<wastrel> poor kid
<nixternal> heh
<wastrel> writing docs is hard
<Burgundavia> wastrel: yes, yes it is
<Burgundavia> what are you struggling with?
<wastrel> having trouble figuring out how dumb my target user is :] 
<wastrel> do i need to document every click or just the non-obvious stuff
<Burgundavia> depends on the audience
<Burgundavia> which set of instructions?
<wastrel> palm pilot sync
<Burgundavia> assume certain knowledge
<Burgundavia> link to others, like how to instlal packages
<Burgundavia> best way is to write and then ask for guidance
<Burgundavia> write less, add more
<wastrel> okey dokey
<Madpilot> wastrel, I'm generalizing, but Palm Pilot users who're also trying Linux probably don't need every single click documented
* nixternal does
<tonyyarusso> Hmm, I really should get around to making matching docs for how to connect to my uni's wireless
<dthacker> join #tikiwiki
<dthacker> sorry mischan
* Mez -> food
#ubuntu-doc 2006-11-05
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70325 in ubuntu-doc "OpenOffice Crashes Edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70325
<theCore> yet another clueless bug reporter...
<nixternal> lol
<theCore> does the docteam will change the repo from subversion to bzr, soon? 
<theCore> or it is just not planned?
<Burgundavia> theCore: it has been "planned" for awhile now
<theCore> Burgundavia, will it be discussed at UDS?
<Burgundavia> no, because none of us will be there
<theCore> what about LaserJock?
<Burgundavia> he is the only one
<theCore> ah, ok
<theCore> personally, I would love to see the repos migrated to bzr
* nixternal wouldn't
<theCore> nixternal, why?
<nixternal> to slow right now for one
<nixternal> and it would still work the same as svn for everyone else
<theCore> nixternal, too slow?
<theCore> I find it quite fast for a http-based vcs
<theCore> and with the smart protocol it will be way faster
<theCore> and I don't think it would work the same as svn
<nixternal> well, no need to branch unless you have rights to the directory..so bzr co would act the same for everyone else...as of right now, i personally don't see any added benefit from switching
<nixternal> actually..i believe it was started as well
<nixternal> Burgundavia: im using KPhone for SIP, it is pretty cool..they are recommending Twinkle over Ekiga and KPhone though
<Burgundavia> why twinkle?
<nixternal> i have no clue
<nixternal> NG recommended it
<nixternal> KPhone connects to the Canonical server and my password works just fine..so i don't need anything else
<theCore> nixternal, you don't need the commit rights for doing a branch...
<nixternal> i know
<nixternal> i use bzr on all my other projects, except for the doc team
<tonyyarusso> is poningru still around?
<poningru> yeah
<poningru> whatup
<poningru> tonyyarusso: pong
<tonyyarusso> poningru: You know how there's a Gobby 0.4 package for people that still use Dapper - is there a sobby one too?  There's a bug in 0.3 that prevents it from even starting.
<poningru> ooh no clue
<poningru> the .4 was in portage...
* poningru ducks
<tonyyarusso> portage?
<poningru> gentoo
<tonyyarusso> hm
<poningru> yeah... I mean now that edgy is out, you can force people to use .4 right?
<poningru> .4 has so many improvements its not even funny, encryption etc.
<tonyyarusso> I wanted to throw it on my server, which I'm keeping Dapper for now.
<poningru> hmm ic
<tonyyarusso> What wiki software does the Ubuntu wiki use?
<Madpilot> MoinMoin
<tonyyarusso> Ah, 'k.
<tonyyarusso> ...random: anyone know where I can get the little help icon that shows up in the panel on the live cd?
<poningru> ??
<poningru> oh the floaty?
<tonyyarusso> poningru: If "floaty"'s a technical term, sure.  Actually, I think I found a suitable icon.  (However, if you install, is that thing still there on final?  I installed with the beta)
* Mez -> food
<jjesse> hello
<nixternal> hello
<jjesse> how are you nixternal?
<nixternal> im trying to listen to this one conference, and someone wants to get on with an openmic, that sounds like they are riding in a car with the windows down
<nixternal> im good jjesse, and you?
<jjesse> that sucks, i'm doing well
<jjesse> looks like i've finally convinced the wife to get high speed internet,
<jjesse> you know what sucks is next week i'm in l.a.  just couldn't convince my boss to give me time off to go to mountain view :(
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i couldn't convince the governmetn to give me a week out of school
<nixternal> this SIP setup though is decent
<jjesse> better then what was in paris?
<nixternal> way better
<nixternal> this setup is just like a typical conference call
<jjesse> is there a way to join in listen only mode?  im ight be able to do that tomorroe at work 
<nixternal> they are using a mic system in each room, and it is broadcasted live
<nixternal> you have to sign up like the particpate page says
<nixternal> and all you do is just make sure you mic is muted or not plugged in
<jjesse> cool, maybe i can join tomorrow and borrow the conenction there, if it isn't blocked
<nixternal> it shouldn't be blocked, plus the applications figure out the connection and set up automoatically
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-29
<mdke> morning all
<jjesse> nixternal: you around or in class?
<jjesse> where is the entities stored again
<jjesse> drew a blank
<mdke> libs
<mdke> follow the definition in the top of the docbook file
<jjesse> mdke: thanks totatlly drew a blank
<jjesse> btw a lightwieght checkout of the branch is a lot faster :)
<jjesse> bzr checkout --lightweight
<mdke> sure
<mdke> so there were no objections to moving the styleguide to the wiki? I might get on with that...
<mdke> mpt: do you agree? You're our honorary style consultant
<mpt> I have no objection
<mpt> Remind me to put up my "Words to avoid" list too sometime when I'm less busy :-)
<mdke> yeah, you get to look after the whole thing
<LaserJock> mdke: is there a plan to update help.ubuntu.com with 7.10 docs and if so is there a place for the Edubuntu Handbook there?
<nixternal> the 7.10 updates should go live any day now...as for Edubuntu, that is one for mdke
<nixternal> I am attempting to port all of the Kubuntu docs over right now so I can get them on kubuntu.org
<nixternal> talk about a pita
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to put the Handbook into edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> I don't have any experience in importing outside docs into drupal
<nixternal> ooh
<nixternal> well, you could just copy/paste the stuff in between the <body> and </body> tags, but you will lose your formatting, unless of course you do @import edubuntu.css or whatever it is called into the main .css file for edubuntu.org
<nixternal> and hope nothing has the same name in the css files
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> the problem is that it's chunked HTML
<nixternal> you want single?
<LaserJock> I don't
<nixternal> if so, build with the -single.xsl file
<LaserJock> but I might have to
<nixternal> there is also a -web.xsl
<nixternal> I didn't think about single honestly
<nixternal> I forgot about that
<LaserJock> with chunked HTML I have to make sure all the links are right
<nixternal> so true
<LaserJock> and the build structure is quite a bit different
<nixternal> well, the links would be fine for next and previous and what not
<mdke> LaserJock: I've been preparing the update over the last few days. I haven't included Edubuntu though, as with Feisty
<LaserJock> mdke: ok
<LaserJock> I think maybe I can sed the HTML of the handbook to work ok in drupal
<LaserJock> it's just expecting a different directory structure
<mdke> damn, docbook2moin produces some ugly stuff with the styleguide
<LaserJock> :(
<nixternal> mdke: :)
<nixternal> that's all I have to say about docbook2moin :p
<mdke> I can't understand how it works
 * mdke keeps reading
<ikonia> chaps, is there a reason that http://help.ubuntu.com does not have the 7.10 docs on it ?
<LaserJock> ikonia: yes
<mdke> ikonia: well, of course there is a reason
<ikonia> could you share it, not a complaint, genuine question
<mdke> it's that we haven't put them on there yet
<ikonia> plus then I can see if there is anything I can do to assist
<LaserJock> mdke: I thought you just had them hiding in a back room somewhere ;-)
<ikonia> mdke: I'll re-phrase, is there a reason they are not available post gutsy release
 * LaserJock imagines mdke cackling "Hahahaha, nobody knows where the docs are"
<mdke> the reason we haven't put them on there is that it takes quite a long time to rebuild and retest all the different sections, and I've only just finished doing that
<mdke> then we wait for the webmaster to find the time to copy them to the server
<mdke> it all takes time
<mdke> but we are nearly there!
<ikonia> is there anything missing that requires contribution or is it all done and just awaiting approval/checks ?
<mdke> yep, all done now
<ikonia> great.
<ikonia> thank you
<mdke> you can get a sneak preview here: http://calcium.ubuntu.com/~mdke/help.ubuntu.com.tar.bz2
<ikonia> ahh, thank you
<mdke> large download
<ikonia> thats fine
<mdke> let me know if you see any errors
<ikonia> sure, thank you
<ikonia> preview appriciated
<mdke> tonyyarusso: from a while ago; I closed the bug because it was fixed in gutsy
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-30
<nixternal> wow, converting the docs to html and fixing all of the links is a real pita
<CIA-6> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4487 /kubuntu/ (4 files in 2 dirs): updates to allow me to build for the kubuntu.org website
<mdke> nixternal: don't forget to merge your changes to the relevant bzr branch if you want them to be permanent
<mdke> nixternal: for fixing links, you might want to have a look at the script I used for feisty and adapt it it's under ubuntu/fix-links.sh iirc
<nixternal> mdke: not going to make them permanent just yet...I am going to try and thing of a better way for the Hardy branch on doing the job
<jjesse> morning rich
<ubotu> New bug: #158689 in ubuntu-docs (main) "RealPlayer Help link not working" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158689
<jjesse> mdke: ping... i did a bzr status of the ubuntu-hardy branch and it showed  a large chunk of changes, things being modified, things being deleted and then everything being re-added
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-31
<chuy_max> Hi, where can I write about errors I fixed in my PC?
<chuy_max> particularly, an error on a superblock of my hdd.
<chuy_max> is there any web besides ubuntu forum?
<Madpilot> hi chuy_max - try help.ubuntu.com/community - that's the Ubuntu Community Help Wiki
<chuy_max> ok
<mdke> morning all
<Madpilot> morning mdke
<ubotu> New bug: #158998 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging guide: 822-date command deprecated, should use "date -R"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158998
<mdke> jjesse: no idea, it works fine for me
<mdke> did you resolve?
<jjesse> mdke: in regards to the long bzr commit?
<jjesse> mdke: i think i resolved
<mdke> jjesse: you mentioned bzr status showing lots of changes without you having made any
<jjesse> mdke: sorry yes got it resolved
<jjesse> mdke: i lied, see http://pastebin.ca/756805
<tormod> what happened to the CategoryNeedsCleanup (?) on the wiki?
<sommer> tormod: isn't it CategoryCleanup?
<tormod> sommer: it doesn't show in the drop-down menu
<sommer> during editing?
<tormod> yes. I just want to tag a page that needs some major work.
<sommer> tormod: I see it... are you on https://help.ubuntu.com/community? or wiki.ubuntu.com
<tormod> w.u.c
<sommer> ?
<tormod> FYI, it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
<tormod> wiki.ubuntu.com
<tormod> which is a fork (?) of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile (needs merging)
<tormod> I don't understand why it was copied over to h.u.c without being deleting from w.u.c. Now people have kept on modifying both...
<tormod> s/deleting/deleted
<sommer> tormod: not sure mdke may know
<tormod> actually Corey moved it, but then BenC copied it back two days later.
<jjesse> tormod: sorry what is that reference to?
<tormod> jjesse: FYI, it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
<tormod>  wiki.ubuntu.com
<tormod>  which is a fork (?) of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile (needs merging)
<tormod>  I don't understand why it was copied over to h.u.c without being deleting from w.u.c. Now people have kept on modifying both...
<tormod>  s/deleting/deleted
<mdke> tormod: best thing is probably to merge it into the help.u.c version, and insert a redirect on the wiki.u.c page
<tormod> mdke: yes, I suggested that on the page, but I just wondered how to tag it CategoryCleanup
<mdke> tormod: that category wouldn't be used on the development wiki, it generally isn't needed
<mdke> tormod: you could tag it CategoryDocumentation, which is used to indicate pages which should be moved to the help wiki
<tormod> mdke, ok, just hope nobody makes a third copy then :)
<mdke> tormod: if you put in the redirect it should be fine
<tormod> well it should be merged before putting in a redirect.
<mdke> yes
<tormod> which I don't have time to do, my question was how to flag it so that somebody else would easily find the job
<tormod> or myself, one day that I have time :)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-11-01
<jjesse> !hobbsee
<ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
<tonyyarusso> haha
<posingaspopular> jjesse!
<jjesse> posingaspopular: what's going on?
<posingaspopular> not much, i haven't talked to you since you came to chicago
<posingaspopular> <-paper/crazy night
<jjesse> posingaspopular: yeah been busy
<posingaspopular> jjesse: are you going to work on the hardy docs, or the ubuntu book again?
<jjesse> posingaspopular: hopefully both
<posingaspopular> nice. i'd like work on docs lots more this release but we'll see. the next two months are super busy
<posingaspopular> i'd like to work some on packaging and more loco type stuff though, so we'll see where the priorites stuff. are you still doing lots of traveling?
<jjesse> yeah i am,that's what i do for a living
<jjesse> sorry a little slow responding, at UDS Boston
<posingaspopular> how is that? i wish i coulda gone but im not a mad hacker like you, you know :(
<mdke> morning all
<posingaspopular> mdke: morning? it's 3am!
<mdke> isn't that morning?
<mdke> if it isn't, I don't know what it is
<posingaspopular> it's 'night' if my clock is correct
<michaelramm> QUESTION: Does working on your team wiki (AlabamaTeam US) count as the wiki experience that the doc team is looking for?
<jjesse> michaelramm: i would vote that it does
<michaelramm> cool, I would like to start with something like proofreading, but move up to WikiTeam eventually
<konputer> Greetings
<konputer> I've written some of the meat of a tutorial on how to move from ms exchange to a free mailserver using Maildirs and it happened to be under ubuntu. Do you think that this should be under ubuntu's docs or standalone faq/tutorial?
<jjesse> konputer: on the help.ubuntu.com/community wiki would be a great place to start
<jjesse> konputer: let me kow when you get it done, would love to read it :P
<konputer> Well I'm as of yet not sure where to start
<konputer> I have much of the process written down
<konputer> but I'm not sure as to whether to write it as qmaiL-specific or just for any mail server that uses maildirs and can authenticate against pam
<konputer> the key points that I haven't seen covered online anywhere are how to synch up the exchange tree with users' Maildirs
<konputer> and how to get the linux mail server to authenticate against windows domain.
<jjesse> who was the last person that worked on the serverguide?
<jjesse> ok in a talk here, do you have to have differnt access to post on help.ubuntu.com/community?
<sommer> jjesse: I've been submitting patches and from what I can tell an LP account gets you access.
<jjesse> nixternal or mdke you there?
<nixternal> jjesse: yo yo
<jjesse> nixternal: is there a difference in acces between posting soemting to h.u.com/communit instead of w.u.c
<nixternal> jjesse: I don't believe there is, I know with h.u.com though, not everyone can delete a page
<ardchoille> I'd like to join the documentation team but I use Kubuntu. Will that be a problem?
<nixternal> ardchoille: HECK NO!
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> you are just the poor sould I need
<nixternal> I mean, great contributor I need :)
<nixternal> to bad I write Kubuntu documentation and can't spell worth a damn
<nixternal> s/sould/soul
<ardchoille> hehe
<ardchoille> Well, I'll introduce myself.
<ardchoille> My name is Ian MacGregor, but I go by my online nick: ardchoille
<ardchoille> I worked for a time for Mandrake Linux as their chief editor for their newsletter, and I also edited their website.
<ardchoille> I took a lot of journalism in college and I like to write.
<nixternal> well well well, you sound like the Mandrake version of me :)
<nixternal> how are your docbook skills?
<ardchoille> I joined the ubuntu-docs list so I should be hearing something from that soon.
<ardchoille> I know nothing about Docbook XML but an really wanting to learn.
<ardchoille> Is there an IDE for Docbook?
<nixternal> oh man
<nixternal> no IDE for it
<nixternal> just Kate
<ardchoille> I love Kate
<nixternal> actually, as long as you can read and write english, you are da man!
<ardchoille> :)
<nixternal> if you can do html, then docbook/xml will come easy
<ardchoille> I'm Scottish, but don't hold that against me :)
<nixternal> hey, our leader of Kubuntu is Scottish, and we haven't held it against him yet
<ardchoille> heh, I still write my webpages in html instead of using an IDE
<nixternal> brb
<nixternal> alrighty, back
<ardchoille> The docs team hasn't had a meeting since July?
<nixternal> probably not....we are a rather busy group and the people who contribute usually know what is going on ahead of time...most of us have been doing this since Ubuntu started
<ardchoille> ok
<nixternal> the mailing list is usually where a lot of our work with people who aren't so versed usually takes place
<nixternal> we try to have a meeting though when we are about to do something big...other than that, our goal is just to document the OS, so following development is one of the biggest things
<ardchoille> Ah, ok
<mdke> welcome aboard ardchoille
<ardchoille> mdke: Thank you
 * mdke goes through and merges / deletes a few team wiki pages
<mdke> we have too much stuff around, best to keep things as simple as poss
<ardchoille> Can I createmy own team wiki page? Or must I be an official team member first?
<mdke> members of the team don't have wiki pages. You can create a personal page, sure - any user of the wiki should
<ardchoille> ok
<mdke> i mean, members of the team have wiki pages, but it's nothing to do with being a member of the team :)
<mdke> clear as mud eh
<ardchoille> hehe
<nixternal> wasabi mr. matt!
<mdke> hello
<mdke> hmm, help.u.c still hasn't been updated
<nixternal> ya, anything *.com has been a little slow around here
<mdke> I mean, the 7.10 help hasn't been uploaded
<nixternal> I thought you had access to that
<mdke> no, you don't get access to some servers unless you are a canonical employee
<nixternal> sue um!
<nixternal> ;)
<mdke> I have enough suing to do
<mdke> it's nice to take a break from suing when I get home
<nixternal> hhahaa
<somerville32> mdke: You sue people for a living? lol
#ubuntu-doc 2007-11-02
<avila> Hello.
<jjesse> hello avila
<avila> Hi!
<jjesse> how are you avila
<avila> Doing well, you?
<avila> I thought I would jump on the help-with-ubuntu-documentation bandwagon
<jjesse> avila: in regards to the server documentation?
<jjesse> or other documentation?
<avila> No idea
<avila> I have no experience at all
<avila> But I've been using ubuntu since June
<avila> and want to help out
<avila> but I have no artistic ability
<avila> and I'm not really a programmer
<jjesse> awesome, glad to hear that, the easiest way to help is to start reading the system documentatin and start reporting bugs against it on launchpad
<avila> so I figured this was probably my best bet
<michael_mac> same boat for me!
<michael_mac> except I am only 3 months into ubuntu and linux
<avila> snaz
<avila> we can learn things together
<jjesse> awesome glad to hear
<michael_mac> sounds like a plan
<michael_mac> i would like to end up on the WikiTeam, eventually
<michael_mac> but I am good with proofreading...for now
<avila> yeah I was thinking I could go grammar nazi or something
<jjesse> avila: if you want to go that way, grab the styleguide that mpt is going to be making sure is on the wiki page and go to town :)
<avila> Yeah I haven't read through much of the wiki pages yet
<ardchoille> Where is the system help by the way?
<jjesse> in ubuntu its in yelp and in kubuntu its in khelpcentre
<ardchoille> I'll have to make a kmenu item for it
<ardchoille> Ah, first bug.. the khelpcenter menu item is missing in kubuntu
<ardchoille> nvm, found it
<jjesse> its just labled as help
<ardchoille> yeah, that's what threw me
<jjesse> i think its labeled help in ubuntu as well (i use kubuntu and haven't checked ubuntu in awhile)
<avila> oh, do we need to be running Gutsy for all this?
<avila> I haven't upgraded yet, I was going to wait a bit.
<jjesse> avila: it depends on if you want to work on wiki clean up or the actual system documentation
<jjesse> you could always create a gutsy virtual machine which is pretty easy to do
<avila> I think I'll work on clean up first, that'll give me an idea of what I'm getting into anyway.
<jjesse> awesome, well ping me w/ questions
<avila> Don't worry I will!
<jjesse> avila:  are you on the ubuntu-doc mailing list?  al ot of converstain happens there as well
<avila> yes, I joined this afternoon.
<ardchoille> So did I
<avila> I'm a member of the MA Loco team
<avila> but really I"m just a cheerleader
<jjesse> avila: cool, i'm in MA for UDS - Boston, tomorrow is my last day
<avila> to them
<avila> oh really?
<jjesse> comming back to boston in a couple of weeks for work as well
<avila> I work at the Kendall T stop so I thought about stopping by, but I figured it would all be over my head anyways
<avila> What do you do?
<jjesse> discuss the next version of ubuntu
<jjesse> this was the schedule for today: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-boston-2007/2007-11-01/index.html
<avila> Hardy?
<jjesse> yes 8.04 hardy
<avila> wow, I didn't realize the schedule would be sooo packed
<avila> that's insane
<avila> I played darts with a guy who worked at the hotel that the last UDS was at in Cali. It was really fun to hear his perspective. He basically called us geek hippies
<jjesse> avila: yeah you subscribe to the specs you are intersted and then the automatic schedule plans out when the sessions happen
<avila> oh wow, fancy
<avila> Thanks for the introductions! Goodnight all!
<mpt> Goodnight avila (and welcome!)
<jjesse> night avila
<mpt> And even quiet spectators are welcome at the sessions
<michaelramm> sry to drop out...having serious firefox issues tonight
<michaelramm> brought down my whole system
<michaelramm> and almost did it a second time
<mpt> Firefox brought down your whole system?
<michaelramm> yep
<michaelramm> and now it will not start apparently
<mpt> Sure you're not using Internet Explorer? :-)
<michaelramm> not unless it is on gutsy
<jjesse> mpt: don't you have to do a usuablity study of internet explorer :P
<michaelramm> now system monitor is freaking out
<michaelramm> color > gray > color > gray
<mpt> jjesse, that's more a QA issue than a usability issue really
<michaelramm> So, we need to learn DocBook, eh?
<jjesse> well it depends on what you want to do.... you can post bugs and not the fixes which wouldn't make you learn docbook
<jjesse> you could help out on the wiki wouldn't make you learn docbook
<michaelramm> not really good with bugs and fixes
<jjesse> but yes if you want to system documentatin you need to learn docbook :)
<michaelramm> especially since I am new to ubuntu
<jjesse> michaelramm: i din't know how to triage a bug when i started writing docs, but i've spent the last 3 hours on bug work :(
<michaelramm> i am not closed to the possibility...just not my interest at this stage of the game
<jjesse> michaelramm: i understand so one thing that you could do simply is to read the documentation and email the list w/ either typos or factual errors
<jjesse> or someone from the doc book could help you out w/  learning how to reprt them
<michaelramm> i can totally do that
<michaelramm> so I have to download the repos, right?
<jjesse> awesome, wen i started w/ ubuntu i dn't know how to report a bug and now i'm ata devveloper sprint helping out so be careful :)
<jjesse> you have gutsy instaleld right/
<michaelramm> yes
<jjesse> just read the docs that are provided there then
<jjesse> in help
<michaelramm> ok, brb...have to restart...again
<michaelramm> ok, maybe this will be better
<michaelramm> i am on a temp desktop
<michaelramm> my main blew out a power supply and mobo
<jjesse> wow
<jjesse> well its late and another big developer day before a flight home so off to bed
<michaelramm> good night, and thanks
<jjesse> np talk to you l8ter
<mdke> somerville32: yeah
<ardchoille> In khelpcenter, when I click on Application Manuals > Graphics > DigiKam, where is that manual stored on the hard drive? Is It somewhere in /usr/share/doc/ ?
<ardchoille> The reason is that I want to find an existing one, take it apart, and see how hard it is to write new ones for those which don't exist.
<ardchoille> I learned how to write man pages by taking existing ones apart :)
<ardchoille> Found it:  /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en
<ardchoille> I found an app that has no documentation (handbook). I'll try to write it myself.
<ardchoille> I have some info for you all
<ardchoille> I was going to write the handbook/docs for KnowIt but
<ardchoille> The KnowIt handbook is already written, but it's in /usr/share/doc/HTML/en/knowit
<ardchoille> It just isn't visible in khelpcenter
<ardchoille> I copied it to /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/knowit and the docs are now visible in khelpcenter
<ardchoille> So, it's already written, it's just in the wrong location
<ardchoille> I need to file a bug about this. Would I file it against khelpcenter or against knowit?
<ardchoille> Bug filed:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/knowit/+bug/159463
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159463 in knowit "KnowIt docs in the wrong place" [Undecided,New]
<ardchoille> hehe, my first task as an ubuntu-docs student complete :)
<ardchoille> Oh, and the Kompose handbook/docs are the same way.
<ardchoille> Either the Kompose handbook was someone's attempt at humour, or it was written by someone who had something against kompose
<ardchoille> Another bug filed
<ubotu> New bug: #159645 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Missing word in the french firefox homepage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159645
<nixternal> FIXED
<jjesse> BROKE
<somerville32> MOO
<jjesse> quick tip the cow
 * somerville32 scrambles.
#ubuntu-doc 2007-11-03
<posingaspopular> hi, how to file a documentation bug in kubuntu
<somerville32> posingaspopular, Against the product
<posingaspopular> ummm... KDE help
<posingaspopular> so search KDE help in LP?
<posingaspopular> sorry im not finding it
<somerville32> Ubuntu documentation
<posingaspopular> hmm, sorry cody im not getting this at all
<posingaspopular> im at the /filebug page and i duno
<mpt> avila, did you make it to UDS at all?
<avila> oh no, I worked from home today so I wasn't in Cambridge at all.
<mpt> ok
<mpt> posingaspopular, can you tell me the URL of the page you were on when you searched for "KDE help"?
<posingaspopular> bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+filebug
<posingaspopular> basically if you go to KDE help and click 'applet manuals' there is nothing under that topic/section etc.
<mpt> posingaspopular, ok, to put you out of your misery, the place to start is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc
<posingaspopular> sigh... thanks. im only used to filing bugs in firefox
<mpt> Now I'm wondering how we could fix that navigation problem in Launchpad
<posingaspopular> launchpad bugs
<mpt> hmm
<mpt> https://launchpad.net/projects/?text=kde+help
<mpt> doesn't return ubuntu-doc
<mpt> though, actually, maybe it shouldn't, since missing help in KDE's "applet manuals" section might not actually be an ubuntu-doc bug
<mpt> but the team will at least know where to move the bug report.
<posingaspopular> but that's part of the ubuntu docs, or KDE?
<posingaspopular> because from what i can tell it's Kubuntu docs
<posingaspopular> i wish nixternal was at his keyboard tonight, he would fix it in 2 seconds
<posingaspopular> but he's performing in a rodeo instead
<nixternal> fix what?
<posingaspopular> oh nothing, i was trying to file a docs issue
<posingaspopular> in kde help and being confused
<nixternal> what is it?
<nixternal> if you find a bug in kde help (khelpcenter), it would be best to report it upstream (bugs.kde.org)
<posingaspopular> oh is that a KDE thing
<nixternal> khelpcenter is
<posingaspopular> because on top it says 'kubuntu documents'
<posingaspopular> or is that just the one section?
<nixternal> that is just one section
<nixternal> what is the problem? I can tell you if it is valid or not
<nixternal> ie. is it a bug or a wishlist item
<posingaspopular> applet manuals
<posingaspopular> doesn't actually return anything
<posingaspopular> i'd like to put somethign in
<nixternal> I do believe that is already filed upstream
<posingaspopular> or get it removed... or something. it's bugging me out (no pun intened)
<nixternal> isn't major enough for a 3.5.x fix, but I can guarantee it will not be there for kde 4
<posingaspopular> nice. kde 4
<michael_gutsy> good evening gentlemen
<michael_gutsy> i have a newbie doc team question
<nixternal> go for it
<michael_gutsy> I joined the mailing list yest
<nixternal> and good evening to you as well :)
<michael_gutsy> and talked to jjames last night
<nixternal> jjesse :)
<michael_gutsy> oh yeah
<nixternal> although, I do call him jesse james
<michael_gutsy> was thinking jesse james for some realson
<michael_gutsy> reason*
<posingaspopular> oh that guy
<nixternal> hehe, ya, it got me too
<michael_gutsy> I would like to work up to WikiTeam eventually
<michael_gutsy> but for starters I am good with proofreading
<michael_gutsy> he said that I could start with the Help file
<michael_gutsy> and i was wondering if there is a single doc that I could print out instead of reading it through the helpviewer
<nixternal> can't say that there is
<posingaspopular> nixternal: why is there no /skim documentation in KDE help center either
<nixternal> do you have skim installed?
<nixternal> or just scim?
<michael_gutsy> ok, I guess that I will use the Help Center then...thanks
<posingaspopular> no documentation for krecipes either...
<nixternal> sorry about that...that is something I hope to work out with Hardy, is getting some printable materials again, as it seems a lot of people have been asking for it
<posingaspopular> even though i clearly have that installed
<nixternal> posingaspopular: that either means a) neither app has documentation or b) neither app registers their documentation with khc
<michael_gutsy> i have not joined the LP team yet...i wasn't sure when I should do it
<posingaspopular> if they don't register the documenation with khc, could I take it upon myself to submit the documentation without asking them?
<posingaspopular> do that as a 'learn documentation' type thing
<nixternal> nope, you need to get in touch with them and off to document their app
<posingaspopular> nixternal: emailing them now
<posingaspopular> michael_gutsy: if i get the green light, would you like to help me write the krecipes documentation?
<shirish> hi all, can somebody help me with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/phpMyAdmin?highlight=%28phpmyadmin%29 the entry seems to be incomplete. I can't get phpmyadmin running/configuring
<michael_gutsy> i am not familiar with kde, but I am willing to learn
<michael_gutsy> posingaspopular: http://krecipes.sourceforge.net/ does not load a page...
<posingaspopular> ah i think i did 'sudo apt-get install krecipes'
<posingaspopular> i could get back to you on that one though
<michael_gutsy> but I do love to cook
<michael_gutsy> i am just looking for info to start learning
<michael_gutsy> there is a Handbook...http://docs.kde.org/development/en/extragear-utils/krecipes/
<posingaspopular> okay so the doc.kde./whatever isn't loaded into the Khelp center then?
<nixternal> posingaspopular: sudo apt-get install krecipes-doc
<nixternal> that is why you don't see the docs, you don't pay attention to the recommends when a package is installed...tisk tisk
<nixternal> I knew there were docs because I edited them in the past
<posingaspopular> ah i see
<michael_gutsy> ok, project DONE! LOL
<posingaspopular> michael_gutsy: win
<nixternal> hahaha
<ardchoille> I fixed some grammar and typos in the wiki.
<ardchoille> heh, I've been proof reading and editing the wiki and help docs for ubuntu for over a year.
<ardchoille> I signed up as a student. What must one do in order to become an official docs team member (move out of "student" status)?
<Madpilot> you signed up w/ docteam on LP, ardchoille?
<ardchoille> Madpilot: I signed up here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring
<ardchoille> What is LP?
<Madpilot> launchpad
<ardchoille> Oh, I don't think so. How/ehre do I do that?
<ardchoille> I just followed this.. Mentoring program:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<michael_gutsy> I am also interested in the mentoring program for the doc team.
<Madpilot> ardchoille, you've got a launchpad account, tho, right?
<Madpilot> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc
<ardchoille> Madpilot: yes, https://launchpad.net/~ardchoille42
<ardchoille> ok, the LP page for ubuntu docs team says to do a few things and I have done them.
<Madpilot> then sign up. matt or one of the other admins will approve you eventually.
<ardchoille> Madpilot: I'm sorry, but I don't see where to sign up
<Madpilot> there should be a green "Join this team" button in the middle of the screen
<Madpilot> if you're logged into lp
<ardchoille> There's a "Mentoring available" button
<Madpilot> if you don't see a "Join This Team" button next to that, you're already a member
<Madpilot> check your LP profile page
<ardchoille> ardchoille is not an active member of any Launchpad teams.
<ardchoille> The ubuntu-doc LP page says I'm not a member
<Madpilot> oddness
<ardchoille> I think I might be doing something wrong.
<Madpilot> ping matt once he's online
<ardchoille> ok
<Madpilot> @now london
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/London: November 03 2007, 03:52:27 - Next meeting: Edubuntu Team in 4 days
<Madpilot> no chance he'll be awake right now :)
<ardchoille> yeah
<Madpilot> well, slim, anyway
<ardchoille> mdke shows "away" here
<Madpilot> likewise - 3hrs and some idle
<Madpilot> there's also recently been a big re-arrangement of the doc teams on LP, I don't quite understand the new setup.
 * Madpilot hasn't actually done any documenting for months...
<nixternal> year+? :p
<Madpilot> quite likely. haven't even done any wiki editing in ages.
<nixternal> you have been hibernating
<Madpilot> been doing loco stuff (Ubuntu Canada) and real-world stuff
<nixternal> you haven't edited wiki pages since I started it...I mean really editing them...we used to hit the category cleanups like it was going out of style
<nixternal> that's been a while now
<nixternal> going on 2 years
<Madpilot> ya, Dapper was my big docteam effort, since then I've been doing other stuff
<Madpilot> docteam got me Ubuntu Membership, then I stopped doing it ;)
<nixternal> haha
 * posingaspopular resists an offensive joke
<nixternal> 22:57:00 [notice(ChanServ!ChanServ@services.)] An access level of [10] is required for [OP] on #ubuntu-doc
<nixternal> count your blessings posingaspopular
<ardchoille> If I see a wiki page that has no category, I won't hurt anything by assigning it a category will I? As long as I assign the correct category?
<posingaspopular> ardchoille: go for it
<nixternal> Madpilot: tell posingaspopular to quit being scared..he was going to say this to you:
<nixternal> [posingasp] i was going to tell Madpilot 'hit it and quit it!'
<nixternal> :p
<Madpilot> nixternal, who *does* have ops here, anyway? I don't either.
<nixternal> what a girly mahn </ahnold voice>
<Madpilot> heh
 * Madpilot wishes @lart still worked.
<nixternal> ya, they removed them out of the important channels
<Madpilot>  @lart doesn't even work in #ubuntu-offtopic anymore, or -ops
<posingaspopular> no i was just resisting the urge to break the CoC in a public chan. PM's and ubuntu-chicago don't count richard
<posingaspopular> also you're an ass
<Madpilot> <pedant>wrt the CoC, #ubuntu-chigaco probably does count</pedant>
<nixternal> signum, jdub, mdke_, your brother, and jerome are the only ones with ops
<Madpilot> chicago, even
<nixternal> so really, just mdke_ I guess
<Madpilot> ya
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> I made posingaspopular blush
<nixternal> ubuntu-chicago and the coc is like drug dealers having a coc
<posingaspopular> actually i dont think I've signed the CoC yet...
<Madpilot> nixternal, is that your blog that has "sending propietary software to sleep with the fishes' as a tagline?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> posingaspopular: if you haven't signed the coc, then you can't edit docs
<nixternal> we don't trust you is what I am saying :p
<Madpilot> not technically true. except maybe in Chicago.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> shhh
<posingaspopular> need help creating a wiki page plz
<TimBosse> What's up?
<TimBosse> I am no "expert", but I might be able to help.
<posingaspopular> TimBosse: I'm trying to create a page for a codesprint/hackathon thrown by the Ubuntu-illinois team.
<TimBosse> OK.
<posingaspopular> we are not an official team yet, but we are going to try and make it ubuntu specific as possible
<posingaspopular> where should this page be created
<Madpilot> posingaspopular, does ubuntu-illinois have a team page yet?
<posingaspopular> yes
<Madpilot> then do your events as subpages off that page
<Madpilot> like the Ubuntu Toronto release party page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Toronto/GustyGibbonReleaseParty
<posingaspopular> right right, but how do i Create
<TimBosse> You need to edit the wiki page for ubuntu-illinois.
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IllinoisTeam/newpagenamegoeshere
<Madpilot> that'll automatically create a subpage for you ^^^
<TimBosse> and add a link to the page.
<TimBosse> ...or go with Madpilot's method :)
<Madpilot> posingaspopular, no apostrophe in "get's" in the IllinoisTeam intro blurb, BTW
<Madpilot> and no 'e' on the end of 'aid' there, either
<Madpilot> </pedant editor>
<posingaspopular> i got it
<posingaspopular> thanks
<Madpilot> and to be really, really evil - technically, the Ubuntu Trademark Policy sez, "putting things inside the Ubuntu logo to create team logos is a no-no."
<posingaspopular> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IllinoisTeam/Events
<posingaspopular> does that work
<Madpilot> yup
<posingaspopular> isn't the logo also open source... ish?
<Madpilot> No.
<Madpilot> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<Madpilot> it's just not enforced very stringently on LoCoTeams
<posingaspopular> i see
<Madpilot> I took it as a challenge when I created the Ubuntu Canada logo, though. Restrictions foster creativity.
<Madpilot> the Aussie Team had a great contest, with discussion on what is/isn't allowed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Archives/Logo
<posingaspopular> i really like the first one
<Madpilot> the green kangaroo one? again, falls foul of the trademark policy
<Madpilot> or the dot-map one they adopted? that one's great.
<TimBosse> g'night.
<ardchoille> mdke_: ping
<mdke_> ardchoille: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<ardchoille> haha
<ardchoille> Perfect Timing
<ardchoille> mdke_: I desire to join the documentation team as an official member and be assigned tasks. I do really well when given tasks to perform.
<ardchoille> I don't do so well when told to "find something to do".. possibly because I don't know what is available
<ardchoille> mdke_: I have been proofreading and editing the wiki and help docs for over a year. I don't know Docbook, but am willing to learn. I still write my web pages in raw html in a text editor so I feel that learning XML will come easy.
<ardchoille> I have been using Linux since 2001 and *buntu since 2004. I'm not good with programming or packaging so I believe that helping with documentation and bug reports are the only way I am able to "give back" to the Ubuntu community.
<ardchoille> This is an awesome distro and I would like to officially help keep it that way :)
<lamber1> so what is the difference between the ubuntu wiki and the community section of help.ubuntu.com
<astro76> lamber1, help.ubuntu.com/community is for ubuntu documentation, wiki.ubuntu.com is for development, team and project coordination... anything but documentation
<ardchoille> astro76: You wouldn't believe the amount of people who don't realise that
<astro76> I bet
<somerville32> It was recently changed
<mdke_> recently = over a year ago
<mdke_> ardchoille: for joining the team, we ask that people contribute some patches and show us an ability to use our toolchain and send reliable commits before adding them. However if you feel that you'd prefer to have tasks assigned to you, the best thing is to ask on the mailing list
<mdke_> ardchoille: specify the area you're interested in, and the people working on that area will give you pointers
<mdke_> ardchoille: we have a Tasks page (which may be vaguely up to date) and lots of bug reports which you can look at for things to do. The wiki also has plenty of tasks
<ardchoille> mdke_: Joining the team requires all of that? I had no idea it was so involved.
<ardchoille> Patches? What kind of patches? I can't program
<somerville32> Patches to the documentation :)
<ardchoille> What toolchain? It's just documentation. I know how to use a text editor
<mdke_> ardchoille: have you not seen our team pages yet?
<mdke_> they explain in simple steps what is involved
<ardchoille> Hmm.. I think I'm in the wrong place.
<mdke_> nope, it's as easy as falling off a log
<ardchoille> I wanted to join the team that works on text documentation
<mdke_> I'll explain more slowly
<ardchoille> ok
<mdke_> you shouldn't be scared by the word "patch", all it is is a way to send some changes you make to the documentation to us for us to review and apply to our files
<mdke_> ardchoille: basically, you don't have to have "commit access" to contribute to the documentation team, you just need to send us some of your proposed changes. We'll then review them and apply them
<mdke_> after you've sent a few and we know that you are doing good work, we'll give you access to send those changes directly to the files.
<mdke_> all that applies to the system documentation in Ubuntu.
<ardchoille> Oh, I can do that easily.
<mdke_> contributing to the wiki is much more straightforward
<mdke_> you just login and edit
<ardchoille> yes, I've been editing the wiki for a while
<mdke_> If you read all of this, you'll understand exactly what is involved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted
<ardchoille> mdke_: So, I find problems in the documentation (khelpcenter?), then send proposed changes to you for inspection?
<ardchoille> ok
<mdke_> correct
<mdke_> as for tasks on the wiki, some are listed here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiToDo
<ardchoille> I've read all of that. Either it isn't straight forward enough, or I'm an idiot.
<mdke_> you probably want to read the pages which are linked for further explanation in the particular section of page you're interested in
<mdke_> for example, for the system documentation, "Repository" and "Contribute"
<mdke_> but feel free to ask here or on the mailing list for any help
<mdke_> nixternal: saw you edited libs/global.ent in the kubuntu branch - could you remember always to merge common changes across the various branches if you make them, or if you haven't got them, send a mail to the list to give a heads up?
<nixternal> roger....all I have right now is kubuntu-docs
<somerville32> mdke_: Why don't you isolate that into one branch its self?
<mdke_> yeah, it can be a bit heavy to get them all. But there is a tarball with the revision history if you want to get them, save you download time
<mdke_> somerville32: we thought about it, but then it won't be possible to build packages out of a single branch
<somerville32> Use the new nested-tree functionality
<mdke_> I think that causes problems with the format we use. But I'd be interested in hearing how it works
<somerville32> Me too actually, lol
<somerville32> Lifeless just told me about it 5 seconds ago for an unrelated query
<ardchoille> mdke_: Well, I found some problems with documentation and submitted bugs. Here they are:
<ardchoille> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/knowit/+bug/159463
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159463 in knowit "KnowIt docs in the wrong place" [Undecided,New]
<ardchoille> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kompose/+bug/159471
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159471 in kompose "Kompose handbook is a mess" [Undecided,New]
<ardchoille> mdke_: Was that not the right thing to do?
<somerville32> Kompose handbook is a mess isn't very descriptive :/
<ardchoille> I did give examples from the handbook
<somerville32> mdke_, ConfigManager
<somerville32> http://bazaar-vcs.org/ConfigManager
<mdke_> perhaps we could use that in the future. Lifeless didn't mention it in our discussion about structuring the branches, neither did jameinel
#ubuntu-doc 2007-11-04
<nixternal> mdke_: when you wake up, I would like to get the commit hook (python plugin for bzr) for bzr that you are using
<nixternal> mdke_: never mind, I see that it is the LP email....groovy
<nixternal> now to get the hooks to work for the IRC channel, but each of us would need to use the bzr python plugin and have access to the username/password used for CIA unfortunately
<bullgard4> [Gutsy] English help wanted. Gnome Power Manager applet (top panel to the right) version 2.20.0: Right-click opens a context menu with 4 items. What are the English names of these 4 items? Are they 'Settings', 'Power History', 'Help' and 'Info' or what?
 * Kamping_Kaiser fires up a gutsy box incase no one else answers before it starts
<Kamping_Kaiser> now.
<Kamping_Kaiser> top to bottom:
<Kamping_Kaiser> preferences
<Kamping_Kaiser> power history
<Kamping_Kaiser> help
<Kamping_Kaiser> about
<Kamping_Kaiser> bullgard4, ^^
<bullgard4> Kamping_Kaiser: Thank you very much.
<Kamping_Kaiser> bullgard4, np
<bullgard4> [Gutsy] English help wanted. Gnome Power Manager applet (top panel to the right) version 2.20.0: (Right-click) > Preferences will open a dialog. What is the English name of this dialog window? Is it 'Power Manager Preferences'?
<Kamping_Kaiser> management
<Kamping_Kaiser> power management preferances
<bullgard4> Kamping_Kaiser: Thank you.
<Kamping_Kaiser> np
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm leaving it on ;)
<bullgard4> hehe
<bullgard4> This dialog window has 3 tabs. What are the English names of them? 'Line power', 'Battery power' and 'General'?
<Kamping_Kaiser> bullgard4, you could probably find all this out from rosetta
<tormod> hi, is anyone allowed to /rename/ on help.ubuntu.com/community?
<Kamping_Kaiser> should be able to
<tormod> Kamping_Kaiser: thanks, can you rename https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/DWL-G510 to WifiDocs/DWL-G510 please?
<Kamping_Kaiser> tormod, you should be able to, unless the wiki has changed since i used it last
<tormod> Kamping_Kaiser: "You are not allowed to rename pages in this wiki!
<tormod> "
<tormod> I don't know if it's me, or the wiki.
<Kamping_Kaiser> tormod, things have changed *grin*. check your logged in.
<Kamping_Kaiser> otherwise wait around, and a person with authority should become active some timd
<tormod> I am logged in, I can edit stuff.
<tormod> that's my question, if there is persons with "authority" who can.
<Kamping_Kaiser> there are, they are not here atm.
<Kamping_Kaiser> check launchpad for the people who can, iirc ubuntu-wiki-team
<tormod> Kamping_Kaiser: thanks
<bullgard4> Kamping_Kaiser: What do you mean by 'rosetta' precisely?
<Kamping_Kaiser> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+translations
<bullgard4> Kamping_Kaiser: Your hint "https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+translations" is not helpful. This site ia a statistic on some achievements but will not tell me 3 specific English names which I do not know.
<bullgard4> is
<Kamping_Kaiser> bullgard4, eh. you used to be able to use that site to check strings. no idea how you would currently
<Kamping_Kaiser> bullgard4, in answer to your question though: On AC Power, On Battery Power, General
<bullgard4> Kamping_Kaiser: You said: "you used to be able to use that site to check strings." This is not true. I did only guesswork.
<Kamping_Kaiser> bullgard4, it is true, 12 months ago when i used it last, you could use it that way.
<bullgard4> Kamping_Kaiser: There must be some misunderstanding. Before continuing exchanging arguments, I willreconsider all what I have said and heard.
<bullgard4> Ah, the misunderstanding might have arisen because the English word 'you' has several meanings.
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes, quite likely. (english is a stupid language)
<mdke_> tormod, Kamping_Kaiser - it's always been the case that only certain people can rename pages on the help wiki
<mdke_> members of the wiki team can ask for access
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke_, my bad, i remembered them both being renamable
<tormod> mdke, can I get rename access? I can of course delete and recreate, but that's awkward.
<tormod> mdke, it's in particular the WifiDocs that need my love
<mdke_> tormod: sure. what you need to be careful with is breaking links. So when renaming, if there are any links on the wiki or on the internet, you should always make a redirect. Are you familiar with finding links and making redirects?
<tormod> mdke_: yes, I can click on the title to get internal links and "link:" in google. #REDIRECT.
<tormod> hmm or REFRESH has been used also
<tormod> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryDocumentation says #REFRESH 0 in fact
<mdke_> that's just used for redirects to an external website (in that case to the help wiki). For internal links we use #REDIRECT
<mdke_> good, I'll add you
<mdke_> if there are not many links, sometimes it can be cleaner to just fix them rather than create too many redirects around; it's in your discretion which you choose
<mdke_> you should be able to rename and delete pages now
<tormod> mdke_: thanks!
<mdke_> good to have more wiki contributors
<mdke_> tormod: if you have any ideas about how to improve the help wiki, please post em to the list. It needs a bit of a kick
 * mdke_ -> diy
<mpt> bullgard4, did you work out how to find the strings in Launchpad?
<bullgard4> mpt: No.
<mpt> bullgard4, what's your native language?
<bullgard4> mpt: German.
<mpt> bullgard4, ok, so at <https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+translations> click on "German"
<mpt> then click on "gnome-power-manager"
<mpt> (which is near the bottom of the first page)
<bullgard4> mpt: This lists Programs that I can translate into German.
<mpt> Yes, so click on "gnome-power-manager"
<Kamping_Kaiser> mmm. its coming back to me now :)
<mpt> and you'll see all the strings in gnome-power-manager, along with their current translations
<bullgard4> mpt: There is a column 'Suggestions'. What rules govern the contents of this column?
<mpt> bullgard4, they are either translations suggested by people who aren't (yet) approved as trustworthy translators, or they're translations for the same string in other programs that might be useful here
<mpt> What you're interested in is "Current German"
<mpt> to find the strings you want to know the English for
<mpt> Now, since there are 464 of them, browsing through them all probably would take too long
<mpt> and Launchpad doesn't yet let people search through them
<mpt> So you may want to do a Google search of launchpad.net instead
<bullgard4> mpt: So the only solution at the moment is to skim through all pages one by one until I find the German word or term  whose English equivalent I want to know?
<mpt> hmm
<mdke_> you can download the po file and search that in a text editor
<mpt> searching Google I see it hasn't covered these pages yet
<bullgard4> mpt: I will enquire about Launchpad.net. I did not hear about it before.
<mpt> bullgard4, mdke_'s suggestion is a good one
<mpt> Click "Download" in the pink box, choose "PO format"
<mpt> and you'll get a text file which you can open in an editor and use Find to find the string you want to know the English for.
<bullgard4> mpt: I was told that I would receive an email. Let's see what this email will contain.
<LjL> asking for opinions on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountingWindowsPartitions - the former especially seems a mess to me, with instructions addressing various releases but not clearly specifying which, and also it's not very clear why they should be two separate documents
<mdke_> LjL: without looking at the pages in detail, that sounds right. Go ahead and clear things up if you want and email the mailing list for further feedback
<mdke_> ciao by the way
<LjL> hey mdke_ :) ok i think i'll merge them, i suppose i will need some guidance to settle on which umasks/dmasks/etc are appropriate, since the two articles seem to disagree... suppose i'll be able to find out, though
<mdke_> good idea
<LjL> ahum... while i'm here... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo -- it used to contain instructions for enabling the root account (with *disclaimers*). then they were removed. I added them back, after the input from a developer (with more HUGE DISCLAIMERS), but now I see they were reverted once again.
<LjL> i don't feel like starting an edit war, but i do think the instructions should be there - with all the due disclaimers, sure.
<mdke_> LjL: for that sort of thing, the best approach is to contact the person who is reverting it
<mdke_> perhaps cc the mailing list
<LjL> mdke_: they're online. invite them here? (otoh, some of my fellow #ubuntu operators seem to be agreeing that RootSudo should *not* explain how to enable root)
<mdke_> you'll get more input by email, but irc could work
<mdke_> what are the use cases in which enabling the root account is helpful?
<LjL> mdke_: on IRC, i normally insist that there are none. that is because about 99% of the people who want to enable it don't really need to. i can't exclude there are legitimate reasons for enabling it, though... also, i maintain that, if a user REALLY wants to do something and can't be convinced otherwise, it's better to explain to them how to do it than let them go by guesswork - and break everything
<LjL> it would be better if Hobbsee were offline, she was totally against the removal and she surely knows better than i do
<LjL> err, s/offline/online/
<mdke_> is there anything that can't be done using normal sudo access that can be done with a root account?
<LjL> mdke_: not that i know of, unless sudo is rendered inoperable for some reason (why may happen, but should be fixed by fixing sudo from recovery mode)
<mdke_> so the argument is just based on helping people who have used other distributions and have used a root account? I guess that probably explaining that Ubuntu does things differently is enough for that. But I'm open to being convinced
<LjL> mdke_: i can tell you as a matter of fact that [too] many people still insist on enabling root even after they've been explained it's unnecessary. but i may agree that's not enough to have it explained on the RootSudo page... i'll defer the discussion to when Hobbsee comes back online, she was most adamant on keeping it.
<LjL> (as an aside... if we don't have the explanation, then perhaps we shouldn't have the HUGE DISCLAIMER, either - but that was left there)
<mdke_> i suppose the best is to get an email discussion going on the mailing list
<LjL> !files | i've rewritten this (mostly abandoned, it looked) page and intend to use it as a starting point for filesystem stuff
<ubotu> i've rewritten this (mostly abandoned, it looked) page and intend to use it as a starting point for filesystem stuff: An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview
<jjesse> ubotu: looks good to me
<jjesse> who is ubuto?
<jjesse> LjL: looks good to me so far
<LjL> hehe
<LjL> ubotu's our friendly neighbor bot :P
<jjesse> i know that, i was trying to talk to whoever was using it
<LjL> well, i used a slightly awkward syntax perhaps :)
<jjesse> hello mpt
<posingaspopular> hello jjesse\
<jjesse> hello posingaspopular
<posingaspopular> how's it going?
<jjesse> good just working on bugs while i'm waiting for wife to get ready to go ut for dinner
<posingaspopular> oh that's cool man. i just came in from lunch, about to do some homewrok. everyone has been calling me to go out but im watching some bullriding instead.
<jjesse> ah cool, i'm watching the new england indy foot ball game
<posingaspopular> that's how you know ive been talking to nixternal too much though... he was in the rodeo this weekend
<posingaspopular> i want to watch that game but my dad wont give up the remote
<jjesse> seriously?  nixternal was ridding the bulls this weekend?
<posingaspopular> seriously, his whole family was at the rodeo
<posingaspopular> i think he said his cousin was one of the clowns
<mdke> evening
<posingaspopular> that game is going to be great. two undefeated teams...
<posingaspopular> cbs needs to get HD already though. my tv can't handle their analoge business
<jjesse> ah, watchig it through my slingbox
<jjesse> well headig iout for dinner
<posingaspopular> ttyl jjesse
<mdke> popey: online?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-27
<kelemengabor> hi all
<kelemengabor> is 8.10.2 the final version that will go into intrepid?
<mpt> kelemengabor, version 8.10.2 of what?
<kelemengabor> ubuntu-docs
<kelemengabor> we finished it a few days ago, but it's not part of the package yet
<kelemengabor> any hope fot another release before intrepid?
<kelemengabor> or out translations will be visible only in a later update?
<emmajane> popey: I think I buggered that edit that you just got a notificaiton about. There are edit conflicts all through it. I've pinged Jorge as well...
<emmajane> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
 * emmajane backs away slowly from the hate-filled Wikimachine.
<popey> emmajane: :)
<popey> emmajane: I ignored them expecting someone else to resolve them, figuring that if I joined in it would become a horried edit conflict mess
<emmajane> popey: I can respect that. :)
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-28
<glade88> hello. is it possible to add a bookmark in a page? for example, the <tableofcontents> shows only the =Topics= and subtopics.. if I dont have any =topics= on the page, could I add bookmarks to specific areas that I could link at a "custom made" contents table?
<glade88> anyone?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-29
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, whats the story with the new wiki theme?  Are we gonna make this standard before Intrepid's release tomorrow?
<Rocket2DMn> I'd like to see it ported to wiki.ubuntu.com as well, is that likely to happen?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-30
<l3on> Hi all...
<l3on> Someone can help me? I'm traslating IntrepidReleaseNotes/it ... there's something that I don't understand, like this:
<l3on> This may cause the system to drop to a busybox initramfs shell on boot with a "Gave up waiting for root device." error.
<l3on> what means "busybox" ?
<l3on> "system waiting for a reply from initramfs" ???
<l3on> mdke: are you there?
<mdke> l3on: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<newz2000> hi, doe anyone know if there's an equiv of this page for intrepid? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
<Burgundavia> newz2000: afaik, it hasn't changed
<Burgundavia> we still require a 3D card due to compiz, basically
<newz2000> I don't suppose you (or someone) would have some time to update the wording on that page to indicate it's relevant to 8.04 and newer would you? I'm going to be linking to this page directly from the download page starting with this release
<Burgundavia> will do it right now
<newz2000> thanks a bunch
<kirkland> mdke: search engine updated on your search page;  are we pretty much "there"?
<tuxx67> who do i contact in relation to reporting typos on a website?
<tuxx67> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/810features/music/  -> 'avaiable for purchse'
<tuxx67> i do now have a launchpad a/c so if someone could log that as a bug or something :)
<Slash_Network> hello all
<Slash_Network> ï»¿I wanna ask one question
<Slash_Network> ï»¿I'am now running ubuntu hardy 32 bit, I want to upgrade to intrepid 64 bit. ï»¿is it possible without loosing my programes installed hardy on I should do a new install ?
<jjesse> Slash_Network: this is not for suppor ask in #ubuntu
<Slash_Network> ah okey, excuse me for the disturb
<jjesse> no problems
<jjesse> just w2aqnt to make sure you get the help you need
<Slash_Network> thank you very much jjesse :)
<jjesse> np
#ubuntu-doc 2008-11-01
<wgrant> How can one delete pages on help.u.c/community? I really don't think we need instructions for Beryl or AIGLX on Edgy any more.
<Burgundavia> wgrant: the drop down allows you to do it
<wgrant> Burgundavia: Ah, right. It seems I'm unprivileged :(
<Burgundavia> wgrant: page linky?
<wgrant> Burgundavia: There's a whole set that probably needs to die, and there are others that have needed killing since Breezy. I'll find them.
<wgrant> Everything related to Xgl is dead, for example.
<wgrant> The AIGLX, Beryl and Xgl pages on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/blah should be dead.
<Burgundavia> is there a common page to redirect them to?
<wgrant> Some of them already redirect to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/CompizFusion
<Burgundavia> you can redirect the rest
<wgrant> I really think they should cease to exist rather than redirect, but sure.
<wgrant> They just pollute listings now.
<wgrant> Aha.
<wgrant> I see some pages are disappearing.
<wgrant> Thanks.
<wgrant> Burgundavia: Oh yeah, and some Automatix pages slipped in... there's nowhere sane to redirect them to.
<Burgundavia> ah giant page about automatix beingevil?
<Flannel> heh, about *matix, since now we have "ultamatix" too.
<wgrant> Shudder
<wgrant> I thought Ultimate Edition would go away.
<Flannel> wgrant: We all did
<wgrant> But no, once it had Ubuntu removed from its name by Canonical it branched out into Ultamatix.
<Flannel> Oh, wgrant, if you're doing cleanup, do you mind figuring out whats going on with the fonts page?  Some guy moved it to w.u.c and made the h.u.c/comm page redirect.  Sort of odd.  I haven't had time to figure out how to contact him (no email, hasn't been on IRC for a while, etc)
<Flannel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fonts https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FontInstallHowto
<wgrant> Blink.
<wgrant> Moved *to* w.u.c?
<Flannel> yeah.  odd.
<wgrant> Ahh. I was wondering how one was meant to do cross-wiki redirects.
 * Madpilot googles for ultamatix's homepage and feels braincells die from the badness of the English here. Oy.
 * Madpilot realizes his carefully tweaked XChat will not, in fact, LET him spell "the" as T E H, even for comic effect. Meh.
<wgrant> Madpilot: Do you like its home page?
<wgrant> It is, IIRC, the one with all the silver gradients.
<wgrant> And it's completely impossible to read, both because of the bad theme and because of the non-ENglish.
<Madpilot> meant "there" when I said "here" in my line above, actually
<wgrant> Maybe that was Ultimate Edition.
<wgrant> But it's the same person.
<Madpilot> http://ultamatix.com/ <-- this awfullness?
<Burgundavia> teh
<Burgundavia> teh
<Burgundavia> teh
<wgrant> I was thinking of http://ultimateedition.info/
<wgrant> But they replaced the theme.
<Burgundavia> so they make money off their ads I see
<wgrant> "This release was built from scratch using Ubuntu Hardy Heron LTS"
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, at some point I tweaked Xchat's autoreplace to correct "the".
<wgrant> I see.
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: I was just being dumb
<wgrant> Hmm, does ultamatix's website really just state that it's valid CSS and not HTML, or has my connection died? That is mildly amusing.
<Burgundavia> wow,there is some seriously old cruft on my system
<Burgundavia> something to do with dpkg-divert stuff in breezy
<Madpilot> you back on your desktop, or is this laptop cruft?
<Burgundavia> desktop
<Burgundavia> using Audrey's wonderful huge screen
<wgrant> Burgundavia: A couple of my systems got a good cleaning after their Intrepid upgrade; they'd come all the way from Warty.
<wgrant> I was amazed at how much cruft there was.
<Burgundavia> I am trying to nuke fglrx
<Burgundavia> am getting an error looking for an so in X11R6
<wgrant> Hmm, I had fglrx leave that around on one of those.
<Burgundavia> had to touch and create a bunch of dirs for it not to fail
<Burgundavia> very annoy9ing
<Burgundavia> anybody got a fresh intrepid system?
<Burgundavia> bkac in a falsh, rebooting to see if this takes
<Burgundavia> if it doesn',t I won't be back for a bit as I fix my X
<Madpilot> I did a clean install for Hardy, was amazed at how much cruft from Breezy onward had accumulated in the old install...
<wgrant> It's particularly fun with my laptop, because I always run the development series from a couple of weeks in and do other really nasty things to my system.
<wgrant> After a couple of releases it becomes rather bad.
<Burgundavia> I guess I should upgrade to intrepid
<wgrant> Burgundavia: It'll be a bit slow.
<wgrant> I'll upgrade to jaunty next weekend.
<Burgundavia> it probably will be
<wgrant> a.u.c is absolutely hammered.
<wgrant> It seems to be so hammered that it can't even properly sync from the internal mirrors.
<Burgundavia> 610 kb/s?
<wgrant> Really?
<Burgundavia> yep
<wgrant> It was hard to connect to 12 hours ago.
<Burgundavia> I am maxing out my connection
<wgrant> Using some mirror, then?
<Burgundavia> I have no idea
<Burgundavia> likely not, given .ca redirects to a.u.c
<wgrant> Hmm.
<Burgundavia> still getting 610ish
<mdke> wgrant: in future if no one happens to be around, the way to mark a page for deletion is described on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<mdke> wgrant: it's not open to everyone to delet pages because of issues with breaking links, described on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/DeletingAndRenaming
<wgrant> mdke: Thanks. Of course, it shouldn't be open to everybody, but it's probably a bit more restricted than it needs to be...
 * Burgundavia realized he forgot to check one or two of those pages...
<mdke> wgrant: what's your alternative idea?
<Burgundavia> when was compiz enabled by default for the first time?
<mdke> I can't remember
<mdke> maybe 7.10 or so?
<wgrant> I think it was Gutsy.
<wgrant> It's possible it was Feisty.
<wgrant> mdke: I'm not sure what a better solution for the deletion privilege is... but it seems a bit odd that not even ~ubuntu-dev has it.
<Burgundavia> 7.04 according to DesktopEffects
<wgrant> compiz was in main for Feisty.
<wgrant> So I presume feisty.
<mdke> wgrant: well, there is no reason for the people in ~ubuntu-dev to know anything about how the documentation wiki works
<wgrant> Ah, beat me.
<wgrant> mdke: I fail to see how there's anything special to know, and I see the restriction as more of a defense against people being malicious or stupid.
<mdke> wgrant: it's described on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/DeletingAndRenaming. You don't have to be malicious *or* stupid to forget to check for broken links (see Burgundavia above)
<mdke> :p @ Burgundavia
<wgrant> Perhaps.
<Burgundavia> idiocy is all you need ;)
<mdke> or just not having read that page for a while
<mdke> or ever, in the case of most members of ~ubuntu-dev
<wgrant> Heh.
<Burgundavia> what does KDE use for desktop effects?
<Burgundavia> kwin or compiz?
<wgrant> kwin
<Burgundavia> ahh, right
<Burgundavia> wgrant: redirect GNOME/customize to UbuntuEyeCandy?
<wgrant> I trimmed some stuff out of the latter this afternoon.
<wgrant> Let me see.
<wgrant> I'd say so.
<wgrant> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Gnome/FAQ is very worthy.
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> that needs to die
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> You know that a wiki page is bad when it mentions XF86Config-4
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> welcome to the 21st century please
<Burgundavia> ok, I need to sleep
<Burgundavia> night all
<wgrant> Night Burgundavia.
<wgrant> Thanks.
<Burgundavia> if you want anything else deleted, pm me with the url
<Burgundavia> I will be online while the system upgrades
<mdke> night Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> ugh, intrepid's ephy performance is worse than hardys
<LjL> how can i see a list of wiki pages i edited or created?
<moteyibex> I wondered how to report a bad link in a man page. I.E. sed documentation man:sed has a bad link.
<mdke> LjL: it can't be done, afaik
#ubuntu-doc 2008-11-02
<czajkowski> ./c
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-26
<mdke> adiroiban1: I don't, I'm afraid. It should be enough simply to install the documentation - does that not work?
<adiroiban1> nope
<adiroiban1> but I will try again
<mdke> the only thing I can think to do is to look at what is happening to the English version
<mdke> or a previous release where translations were shipped (jaunty?)
<darkham> hi people, i'm a documentation team menber
<darkham> how can i request ubuntu pressed cd?
<starcraftman> darkham: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-27
<nigel_nb> hey starcraft-ntbk
<starcraft-ntbk> lo nigel_nb
<jjesse> mroning
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-28
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn, hi what's up
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn, do you have like about 5 mins.  I wanted to show you my new guide
<nhandler> Did the team decide who will be leading the Open Week session yet?
<chunknuts> anybody around?
<chunknuts> heeeellllpppp!!!!!!
<jpds> chunknuts: Hi, try #ubuntu for support.
<chunknuts> I'm not looking for support -- I wanted to comment about a piece of documentation
<starcraftman> lo there chunknuts
<starcraftman> what's the comment?
<chunknuts> oh -- hey... my comment is about the Live CD Customization page:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<chunknuts> it's not updated for Karmic
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-30
<qiyong> hi all, what i can do here?
<Madpilot> qiyong, probably best to join the doc team mailing list if you're interested, it's far more active than this channel usually is
<qiyong> Madpilot: ok
<qiyong> Madpilot: how do i join? simple subscribe the ML?
<Madpilot> qiyong, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<Madpilot> there's the signup page, then just send an email introducing yourself
<qiyong> i don't see signup
<chunknuts> Can someone help me with documentation that needs to be updated?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-31
<starcraftman> chunknuts: what ya need?
<directchat> hi od i need ti register to chat here
<starcraft> directchat: huh? no, it's IRC.
<directchat> how can i register ?
<starcraft> directchat: are you sure your in the right place, this is for the documentation team. Ya hear to talk about that? As to registering nick, same as any other server.
<directchat>  i am looking for some work on ubuntu i think i could start here
<directchat> i have registered and verified yeppe
<starcraft> directchat: k, it's just your nick seems like something a spammer might pick, don't ya want something a bit more... personal?
<starcraft> no offence, I just run into lots of spammers I guess ><
<directchat> okay then i am using my user name
<directchat> can i change my nick name after registeration?
<starcraft> directchat: anyway, if ya want to pitch in with team by all means. Read up though, lots of info. > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/
<directchat> why r u talking me like that i am genuine person
<directchat> thanks for link
<starcraft> directchat: oh I got ya, just a bit paranoid I guess.
<directchat> ok i read this page earlier
<starcraft> if ya wanna change nicks, do on a separate line : /newnick
<starcraft> darn, no, its /nick newnick
<directsaurabh> thanks buddy
<starcraft> for a full list of commands, type in /msg nickserv help
<directsaurabh> thanks
<starcraft> you one of the new folks sent mail to the doc mail list?
<directsaurabh> no i have on mail-list since 2 months
<directsaurabh> now i am interested in docs
<starcraft> kk, well read up, if ya got questions just ask away.
<starcraft> plenty of sections to help, wiki, system docs, or translation.
<directsaurabh> i am not able to figure out how can i earn here or it is just free service here for learning
<directsaurabh> i write articles online on pay
<directsaurabh> but i can write as free service also
<directsaurabh> i think i go for help
<starcraft> not sure I follow. Your not gonna be paid if that's what your asking, these are free contributions to the community.
<directsaurabh> ok
<directsaurabh> wait 2 min'
<directsaurabh> hi i m back
<directsaurabh> plz tell me how does it work here
<directsaurabh> is any assignment or something
<directsaurabh> ?
<starcraft> directsaurabh: mostly people just choose what they want to work on and do so. Its a bit laissez faire I guess.
<directsaurabh> ok
<starcraft> directsaurabh: first pick an area like wiki, then read relevant sections, then once ya up to speed on how the section works try and find something that interests (like a particular wiki page to update).
<directsaurabh> but how does work goes here?
<directsaurabh> ok
<directsaurabh> i think it would take around a week to understand all that
<starcraft> directsaurabh: the documentation team pages? Not a quick thing no getting up to speed, but once done easy to get started.
<directsaurabh> anyways who is admin here?
<directsaurabh> last two are bots i guess
<starcraft> directsaurabh: if ya mean lead (i.e. in charge of team) that's mdke. I'm a wiki admin if ya meant that.
<directsaurabh> means who control this room kicking out or something?
<directsaurabh> mdke?
<directsaurabh> or you
<starcraft> well it ain't me. Never needed an op. I guess it would be mdke, I don't know.
<directsaurabh> okay
<directsaurabh> i checked my mail  i get mails from ubuntu-art is it different then here doc team?
<starcraft> that would be art team no? Not related project, we write, they make art.
<starcraft> you signed up separately I assume, it's not tied to the doc lists.
<directsaurabh> ok i have subsribed to this team few minutes before
<directsaurabh> thanks for info
<directsaurabh> i think i need to claim the page before editing is that like work happen here?
<starcraft> directsaurabh: depends, claiming pages is more for long term updating a wiki page.
<starcraft> If its just a days worth of edits go ahead without.
<directsaurabh> ok
<Rocket2DMn> It's an open wiki, so you can't really claim pages
<Rocket2DMn> you can however let others know that you are working on it
<directsaurabh> ok
<Guest28316> I have tried to install 9.10. On reboot, it refuses to boot, telling me that initrd is too big
<Guest28316> how can I fix that?
<mdke> Guest28316: not sure I'm afraid, but you could try #ubuntu for support
<mdke> Guest28316: this channel isn't for support
<Guest28316> sorrt
<Guest28316> sorry*
<mdke> no problem
<Guest28316> bye
<directsaurabh> does 9.10 has problems?
<directsaurabh> or bugs
<directsaurabh> isn't it stable version?
<mdke> every piece of software has bugs
<directsaurabh> yes but ubunru release 9.10 stable or beta?
<directsaurabh> sorry ubuntu
<mdke> stable
<directsaurabh> ok when did it released I am still on 9.04
<jpds> mdke: https://help.ubuntu.com needs updating.
<jpds> mdke: You weren't at the party!
<mdke> jpds: both true, I'm afraid
<jpds> mdke: Wrong pub again?
<mdke> jpds: I'm working on help.u.c but got caught up in a mire of bzr format issues
<jpds> ;)
<mdke> jpds: I had a work dinner unfortunately
<jpds> Oh well; next time
<mdke> hope so
<mdke> ok, help.ubuntu.com should update at the next cronjob pull from bzr
#ubuntu-doc 2010-11-01
<j1mc> anyone around?
<geekosopher> any core-doc member please ping me, its relating to bug 638258 in kubuntu-docs
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 638258 in kubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "string distro-version has value Lucid Lynx instead of Maverick Meerkat in Ubuntu 10.10 (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/638258
<geekosopher> i've already uploaded a branch ready for approval, please review the same
<j1mc> geekosopher: you might want to send a note to the ML - i'm not sure how many kubuntu doc team members are idling on irc.
<j1mc> geekosopher: thank you for your patch, though!
#ubuntu-doc 2010-11-02
<FourDollars> Attemps to update UserPreferences bounce with message âThis email already belongs to somebody else.â
<FourDollars> This problem happens at https://wiki.ubuntu.com
<FourDollars> Does anyone know how to fix it?
<geekosopher> FourDollars: you might want to get in touch with the ubuntu-website team, this channel is for discussing the content of wiki and system documentation
<FourDollars> geekosopher: thanks
<geekosopher> always welcome :)
<rusivi> Hello, I had a quick comment, immediately after installing virt-manager, launching the application, then File -> Add Connection -> QEMU/KVM I received a variety of error prompts regarding libvirt-bin, libvirtd process, etc. What resolved this was restarting, then installing the qemu-kvm package. It is recommended in the  Ubuntu Community documentation page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/VirtManager  that in the section "I
<rusivi> nstallation" it is expanded to include restart the OS after install of virt-manager and optionally install package qemu-kvm.
<rusivi> ^ lsb_release -rd
<rusivi> Description:        Ubuntu 10.10
<rusivi> Release:        10.10
<rusivi> apt-cache policy virt-manager
<rusivi> virt-manager:
<rusivi>  *** 0.8.4-7ubuntu1 0
<rusivi>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main i386 Packages
<rusivi>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<geekosopher> rusivi: i suggest you use paste.ubuntu.com to post so many lines., by the way, what are you trying to say by posting these
<rusivi> geekosopher: I'll pastebin in the future. What I am saying is what I already posted, the Ubuntu Community page should be updated, wanted to get fellow Community member opinion about it.
<geekosopher> rusivi: iirc, what you were trying to say is that the KVM/VirtManager page whould warn users to restart the computer after installing virt-manager and optionally install the qemu-kvm package. Since I have not used this software personally, I would like to know if after installing virt-manager, were you prompted to restart? if not, then it was not intended to. If you faced any problem by not restarting, may be it is a bug which you would l
<geekosopher> also, if qemu-kvm was required for smooth working of the software, it would have been added as a dependency
<rusivi> geekosopher: ubuntu software center, nor virt-manager suggested a restart. Regarding qemu-kvm agreed as virt-manager offers to work with qemu-kvm or xen, this is why I suggested "optionally install package qemu-kvm."
<geekosopher> hmm, offcourse software center must have suggested to restart to complete the installation. I will probably agree with you, that we can add a line to bring extra attention of the user to restart the computer after installing. Can't say about qemu-kvm though
#ubuntu-doc 2010-11-03
<j1mc> hi all - anyone around?
<jjesse> hi jjesse
<jjesse> do
<jjesse> doh
<jjesse> hiya j1mc
<j1mc> hi jjesse
<j1mc> jjesse: i was just bring up to the manual team that i thought it would be a good idea to combine our efforts
<j1mc> i just did so on irc, but know that we would need to send a note out to the ml
<j1mc> jjesse: i understand that this isn't really relevant to kubuntu docs.  :)
<jjesse> yeah we need more kubuntu docs people ;)
<j1mc> :)  i suppose you recently rewrote them, but kubuntu / kde seems to change pretty quickly
<jjesse> yeah it does
<jjesse> basically a re-write each time
<zkriesse> hey fellow doc-workers
<j1mc> hi zkriesse
<zkriesse> sup dude
<j1mc> not much
<zkriesse> kewl kewl
<zkriesse> do yo live in the states?
<j1mc> yes
<jjesse> i do
<j1mc> zkriesse: are you in chicago?  you're in the ubuntu-chicago channel...
<zkriesse> di ya voite?
<jjesse> if you live in chicago you vote early and often
<zkriesse> yes i'm in the chicago area..well rockford but close enough
<j1mc> i had to work late, and missed voting by about 10 min
<jjesse> j1mc don't worry someone voted for you
<j1mc> haha, jjesse
<zkriesse> j1mc: darn...if you could have who'd have ya voted for? If you don't mind me asking
<j1mc> i would've voted for either quinn or rich whitney for governor, and neither candidate for senate
<zkriesse> k
<j1mc> zkriesse: is that cool?  :-P
<zkriesse> i guess
<j1mc> hehe
<j1mc> what about you?  you vote?
<zkriesse> yes
<zkriesse> Republican myself
<j1mc> jjesse: ^^^ you have a buddy  :)
<jjesse> yay
<jjesse> i'm just glad michigna will no longer have to deal w/ jennifer granmole
<zkriesse> lol
<zkriesse> AT this point i'm just hoping because Illinois might and i stress "MIGHT" go republican for the first time in like, FOREVER
<j1mc> i kind of can't believe kentucky went to rand (sp?) paul.
<j1mc> he seems kind of crazy to me.
<jjesse> i thoght he was an idiot
<j1mc> i hope that NV doesn't go to sharon angle (sp?) either. she seems kind of crazy, too. they won't even let her talk to reporters.  she has decoys and goes out back doors to avoid the press.
<Sir_Konrad> Tomorrow I start documentation of 10.10 on MacBookPro 5,5.
<Sir_Konrad> j1mc, yeah I'm happy about Rand Paul.
<Sir_Konrad> Sure he's a libertarian, but heck...
<j1mc> but heck what?  :)
<Sir_Konrad> j1mc, better then a democrat. ;)
<j1mc> haha
<Sir_Konrad> as I said on ih8sn0w's server: "Now we can pwn Washington. :P"
<j1mc> i am not interested in pwning anything
<Sir_Konrad> I'm not in for pwning much besides my iPhone and getting the government back in control. After that I'm good.
<geekosopher> hello all
<karthick87> Hi friends, how do i take part in ubuntu documentation..?
<geekosopher> karthick87: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<geekosopher> karthick87: and thank you for your interest :)
<karthick87> joined in Ubuntu Documentation Contributors team on Launchpad.How to get involved in it..?
<geekosopher> karthick87: if you want to contribute to wiki, then you can go ahead and start correcting the pages where you think errors exist, or start creating new pages for topics you can't find there
<geekosopher> karthick87: but it would rather be nice if you discuss on the mailing list before making radical changes on important pages
<geekosopher> and if you are interested in sytem documentation, then check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation
<geekosopher> it gives a good idea of how to start
<geekosopher> you can get started by reading the help pages and pointing out errors if you find any
<geekosopher> karthick87: and most of the discussion happens on mailing list, so its good to be subscribed to catch up on whats going on
<karthick87> what is a mailing list..?
<geekosopher> karthick87: its the emailing system, where all the subscribers receive messages sent to it
<geekosopher> ubuntu-docs' mailing list is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<karthick87> subscribed to documentation team..How to create / edit wiki pages..?
<geekosopher> karthick87: go to the page you want to edit, click on the login link at the top, and login using your lauchpad account
<geekosopher> if you are already logged in, you will see 'edit' link (either at the top or bottom of the page)
<geekosopher> for help on how to edit, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide
<karthick87> I found it..Thanks a lot for guiding me..
<geekosopher> you are always welcome, feel free to clear your doubts whenever you have one :)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-11-04
<karthick87> what is DocBook and BZR..?What they are used for..? how to use these tools..?
<jpds> Docbook is a document format.
<jpds> Bzr is a version control system used to track changes in files.
<karthick87> Still i dont find the right way to contribute for ubuntu in documentation section.Can some assign me some work..?
<karthick87> Still i dont find the right way to contribute for ubuntu in documentation section.Can someone assign me some work..?
<jpds> karthick87: There's some bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
<karthick87> bugs in documents..?
<karthick87> do i want to correct the errors in documents..?
<karthick87> Do i want to install DocBook..?
<jpds> karthick87: Have you read the links in the /topic ?
<peppe84> There's here any admin ubuntu-docs lp branch? It's possible to resolve now any error and broken link on official documentation? This bug for explample is vey important for me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/668531
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 668531 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "change xsane in simplescan (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<karthick87> How to use DocBook Tool
<geekosopher> karthick87: docbook is a way of writing content; if you have worked with html and/or xml, docbook is very similar to it
<karthick87> Do i want to install docbook
<geekosopher> karthick87: again, docbook is a style of writing, please go through the links in /topic thoroughly. You may also like to read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DocBook
<geekosopher> karthick87: you ever tried writing pages in html?
<karthick87> BZR..?
<geekosopher> karthick87: yes, you need to install bzr
<karthick87> what is bzr..?
<geekosopher> it is a program that tracks the changes you make to the files under its supervision
<zkriesse> karthick87: new to doc work?
<karthick87> Yes just guide me
<rodemire> Hallo. anybody around?
<karthick87> ya
<karthick87> can anyone help me here..?
<Atamira> can try
<Atamira> whats the matter karthick87
<zkriesse> karthick87: what do you need
<karthick87> i want contribute for ubuntu documentation,but still i dont find the right way on doing it
<zkriesse> ok
<Atamira> english is your second language?
<karthick87> Yes
<zkriesse> What's your primary?
<karthick87> tamil
<Atamira> ahh
<Atamira> then you should have a look at the tamil site
<Atamira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TamilTeam
<Atamira> theres a list of sites there and we can always use more translators in the docs team
<karthick87> oh oke
<karthick87> any english team
<Atamira> try this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<zkriesse> Jim__: Hallo...anyway, what's your question?
<Jim__> Hi
<Jim__> First off, if you've had a look at any of my wiki work, could you tell me if I'm doing anything horrendously wrong?
<zkriesse> links?
<Jim__> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide
<Jim__> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Games
<zkriesse> hmm
<Jim__> Problem?
<Jim__> Not finished either BTW.
<zkriesse> Oh well https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide is a "BIT" long...
<Jim__> I think so too.
<zkriesse> probably needs to broken into a page or two,
<Jim__> Already broken it into 3 pages. Think more is probably appropriate though.
<zkriesse> we'll see
<zkriesse> continue your work and then we shall talk
<zkriesse> so far so good though
<Jim__> Excellent. Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.
<zkriesse> Certainly
<zkriesse> if you need major help feel free to ping me
<zkriesse> I'm an wki admin so i can do a few things
<Jim__> Cheers for that. What's the polite way to sign-off? Excuse my IRC infancy. Noticed your admin status. I'm an admin on the linuxtv.org wiki too.
<zkriesse> cool
<zkriesse> Uhmm, just /part i guess...or close the client
<Jim__> Thanks again then. Speak soon.
<zkriesse> no prob
#ubuntu-doc 2010-11-06
<geekosopher> DarkwingDuck: hi, got a moment?
<zkriesse> he's probably not here
<zkriesse> but what's up geekosopher
<geekosopher> zkriesse: just wanted to chat with him regarding bug 562390
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 562390 in kubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "some instructions in -desktop are wrong (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562390
<zkriesse> ah ok
<geekosopher> I was planning to make a patch for it, but saw it was assigned to him, so just to check up
<geekosopher> zkriesse: if you have some time, would you please have a look at bug 638258 ? I have already linked a branch, nothing much, just one line of change
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 638258 in kubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "string distro-version has value Lucid Lynx instead of Maverick Meerkat in Ubuntu 10.10 (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/638258
<peppe84>  /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-it-doc peppe84
<peppe84> :-)
 * peppe84 torno subito
#ubuntu-doc 2010-11-07
<Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , unless i'm mistaken the docs currently fail to build with "make all" because the makefile still includes the "switching" section
<ikonia> within the wiki, how do I create subdirectory pages
<ikonia> eg: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<ikonia> I wish to create http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/providerwidebans
<ikonia> I can't browse IRC/* to see what's already there
<ikonia> is it as simple as just creating the page/IRC/providerwidebans
<Mohan_chml> ikonia, "type http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/providerwidebans in the taskbar and hit create page" is what you are looking for?
<ikonia> Mohan_chml: ok, so it's as simple as that, I didn't know if I had to work different due to the sub dir
<ikonia> is there are way to see all the pages under /IRC for example
<Mohan_chml> Ummm..! you have to search for /IRC/ and that will list all the links related to it. idk any other ways
<ikonia> shame there isn't something similar to directory listing within apachage
<ikonia> be nice to browse the topics to see if your content is covered in any other docs
<Mohan_chml> ikonia, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines?from=80&context=180&action=fullsearch&titlesearch=Titles&value=IRC/
<Mohan_chml> the pages next to 9 has some sub pages
<starcraftman> ikonia: click more actions > local site map. Also, I'd note that per my understanding, docs targetted at users should be on community wiki.
<ikonia> starcraftman: it's not targeted at users, it's an IRC policy update
<starcraftman> ikonia: ah, alright then.
<Flannel> ikonia: You can put a wiki macro (or whatever its called) that'll expand to all the subpages  (usually you'll add it to a page, check the preview, then cancel your change)
<ikonia> thanks guys
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-31
<mdke> DarkwingUDS: I don't really mind, I think it is up to the people who are attending
<mdke> DarkwingUDS: I don't think that many doc people are attending. jbicha is there
#ubuntu-doc 2011-11-01
<elgaton> Hi everyone, I noticed that the page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes does not contain hashes for Ubuntu 11.10. I can not edit that page in the wiki as I probably do not have the necessary permissions. Could someone please fix that page? Thanks.
<elgaton> Hi everyone, I noticed that the page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes does not contain hashes for Ubuntu 11.10. I can not edit that page in the wiki as I probably do not have the necessary permissions. Could someone please fix that page? Thanks.
#ubuntu-doc 2011-11-03
<jbicha> UDS session beginning soon in #ubuntu-uds-bonaire1
#ubuntu-doc 2011-11-06
<cpick> Hello, does anybody have write permission to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime?
<cpick> The section 'Command Line ntpdate' has a bug,
<cpick> If you follow the directions to add /etc/cron.daily/ntpdate it doesn't tell you to put a shebang line so the cron job fails with 'run-parts: failed to exec /etc/cron.daily/ntpdate: Exec format error'
<cpick> It looks like others have been bit by this before also: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=819456 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=571497
#ubuntu-doc 2012-11-01
<YoBoY> hi
<sagaci> hi
<YoBoY> if I want to report a bug on the html version of the server guide published in help.ubuntu.com, where I should do that ? here https://bugs.launchpad.net/serverguide/ ?
<jbicha> YoBoY: yes
<YoBoY> done
<jbicha> oh, that bug was already reported, let me find the duplicate
<YoBoY> haven't found it, sorry :p
<jbicha> hmm I can't find it right now either
<YoBoY> question : the ubuntu server guide don't have a package in the software center to read it with yelp ?
<YoBoY> (first time I try to find it ^^")
#ubuntu-doc 2012-11-02
<cluelesscoder> hmm, looked back at the logs - this channel looks pretty dead?
<cluelesscoder> just wondering what the rationale is for not having discussion pages in the wiki
<cluelesscoder> seems to make things a little more awkward; looking at the mailing list archive it's hard to see what people think about particular pages
<jbicha> cluelesscoder: you mean like Wikipedia's Talk pages? the software used for the Ubuntu wikis doesn't support that
<cluelesscoder> jbicha, I have seen MoinMoin wikis which have talk pages
<cluelesscoder> don't recall offhand which they were tho... I realize it is unusual
<cluelesscoder> however, perhaps that's a reason to consider switching or putting more pressure on moinmoin to have talk pages
<cluelesscoder> perhaps that other example wasn't quite right - anyway it's a real problem that most of the wikis out there are moinmoin and have no discussion page; very intimidating to new users and difficult to collaborate
<cluelesscoder> oh well - don't blame me for not pitching in
#ubuntu-doc 2012-11-04
<ubiquitus> Hello!
<ubiquitus> Sorry about that. *Hello.
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-28
<pleia2> I have a quick question about bugs if anyone is about
<pleia2> there seems to be two bug places
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+bugs
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bugs
<pleia2> where should folks submit trusty bugs?
<pleia2> looks like the latter
<pleia2> counting \o/
 * pleia2 back2work
<dsmythies> plea2: Your question (which bug report place) is an excellent question, and one I have been thinking about recently, and thinking og brining up for broader discussion. Why? Because almost univsersally we use the bug location related to the packaged version of ubuntu-docs instead of the bug location related to the project version of ubuntu-docs. The result is a bit of a disconnect between bug reports and the code, since we work entirely within the "pr
<pleia2> dsmythies: your line cut off at: since we work entirely within the "pr
<dsmythies> Oh, on my version of IRC it wraps, sorry.
<dsmythies> ... give me a minute
<dsmythies> plea2: Your question (which bug report place) is an excellent question, and one I have been thinking about recently,
<dsmythies> and thinking of brining up for broader discussion. Why? Because almost univsersally we use
<dsmythies> the bug location related to the packaged version of ubuntu-docs instead of the bug location related
<dsmythies> to the project version of ubuntu-docs. The result is a bit of a disconnect between bug reports and the code,
<dsmythies> since we work entirely within the "project". The issue is made worse because other things, such as bug against
<dsmythies> help.ubuntu.com and the wiki are also lumped into those bug locations and people get confused as
<dsmythies> to what the bug applies to, particulalry when detail is a little lacking.
<pleia2> yeah :\
<dsmythies> I didn't bring it up yet for dicussion because I don't have a suggestion. Historically (I think) things such as the serverguide were plit out and are a neat and tidy entity within launchpad.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I decided to just give the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bugs link in the email I sent out earlier because it seemed like what people had been submitting against
<dsmythies> I was going to suggest to us the "project" bug location, which would mean changing the link on the footer on help.ubuntu.com.
<pleia2> we need an infograph showing people the structure of the teams and resources, it's so confusing
<dsmythies> It is confusing yes.
<pleia2> ah, help.ubuntu.com does include a docs bug link!
<dsmythies> we'll better leave it as you sent out. (I find it annoying, becuase Iam  used to the serverguide)
<pleia2> yeah, for now anyway, something to consider though
<dsmythies> The real solution would require some re-structuring in launchpad becuase some things are lumped together.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> we may find we need to do that anyway at some point, so I'm mental noting the bug reason too
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-29
<YoBoY> Hi, sorry to ask that but how to update a localisez image for the Desktop system documentation ? do I have to do a merge proposal or there is another process ?
<pleia2> that's a better question for the translations folks, I don't know how all that works
<YoBoY> ^^
<YoBoY> I should have checked the wiki, it's there. a merge proposal :)
<eagles0513875> hey all
<eagles0513875> hey belkinsa pleia2 :D
<eagles0513875> hey mhall119 you around?
<belkinsa> Hey there, life ate me and I'm going to get something done for the doc team this weekend.
<dsmythies> YoBoY: If you are asking about localaized screenshots for the DeskTop Ubuntu help docs for 13.10 I put out a request to the translators e-mail list on 2013.09.26
<dsmythies> Ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2013-September/006267.html
<dsmythies> It too late now, but maybe if and when we do an SRU (Stable Release Update), which is not for sure.
<dsmythies> And yes, the preferred method is via Merge Proposal.
<YoBoY> dsmythies, thanks, I'm not subscribed to this ML, and no-one fwd it to the french ubuntu-l10n-fr ML :(
<YoBoY> by the way, some of the actual images are deprecated ;)
<YoBoY> unity-dash.png , unity-launcher.png and unity-launcher-apps.png
<dsmythies> I know, but without any feedback, I left the localized ones as they were.
<YoBoY> I'm talking about images in the english ("C") folder
<dsmythies> No, thise are up to date.
<dsmythies> No, those are up to date.
<YoBoY> so I missed the update somewhere ^^" need to go to bed :)
<dsmythies> THe deafult background was changed extremely late in the cycle and I did not re-do the screenshots again.
<YoBoY> I'll try to have the french screenshots fixed, and I will add a note to check these screenshots for the 14.04 release
<dsmythies> O.K.
<YoBoY> by the way it's not a background issue, but more an icon problem (the dash icon and the folder icon)
<mhall119> eagles0513875: I am now
<eagles0513875> mhall119: do you still want me to provide you a charm to install alfresco on a testing machine?
<mhall119> eagles0513875: it would certainly help, yes
<eagles0513875> ok :)
<mhall119> eventually you'll be working with Canonical's IS directly to get it deployed to a production instance, but I can help you get it ready for that
<eagles0513875> :) ok kool
<eagles0513875> mhall119: would i need to work with them for a test instance as well or could i work with you on that
<mhall119> test it on LXC locally first, and then I can test deploy it to our internal testing cloud, and if things go smoothly we'll file a ticket to have it deployed to our production cloud
<eagles0513875> mhall119: when you say lxc you mean test it on my laptop for instance?
<eagles0513875> should install kvm or a vm on kvm hehe
<mhall119> eagles0513875: LXC is a container, much lighter-weight than a VM, but lets you simulate a cloud on your laptop
<mhall119> the folks in #juju can tell you more about it and how to set it up
<eagles0513875> mhall119: ok
<eagles0513875> i hope i wont have to reinstall my setup soon lol cuz im installing alot on this laptop
<mhall119> but you can "juju deploy" to it locally just like you would "juju deploy" to an actual cloud, which makes it easier to test your charm as you write it
<eagles0513875> ahh kool :)
<dsmythies> YoBoY: Background: I was just saying was all. Each screen shot you mentioned, and more, were replaced for 13.10. The new shots were taken on a Ubuntu 13.10 development computer.
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-30
<dsmythies> There is no ubuntu-doc page in the IRC logs for today. This has never occured before, that I am aware of, even when there has been no activity. This is just a test line, please ignore.
<eagles0513875> hey all :)
<eagles0513875> hey pleia2
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-31
<belkinsa> Happy Halloween everyone!
#ubuntu-doc 2013-11-01
<maxiaojun> how to write instruction for launching a app in Unity?
#ubuntu-doc 2013-11-02
<littlegirl> Hey there, shaunm, there's a bug report that looks like it might want to have you on it. (:
<shaunm> littlegirl: link?
<littlegirl> shaunm: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+bug/1232708
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232708 in Ubuntu Documentation "Some GNOME only help showing up in Unity help (13.10)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<littlegirl> shaunm: I've been beating my head on this one. I've tried every possible way I can think of to do conditionals on it and get it to work, but it either displays nothing or displays the wrong text (I use KDE and I see the Unity text when I see any text at all during my tests). It's a stumper. (:
<littlegirl> shaunm: I'm not sure if it's mentioned in that report, but the file you want to edit is color-assignprofiles.page and the file that displays it is color.page.
<shaunm> littlegirl: so I did notice when testing something else that universal-access-menu.png and view-fullscreen-16.png are missing
<littlegirl> shaunm: Oh! In that document?
<shaunm> yes, they're both referenced from pages, and not inside conditionals
<littlegirl> Ouch, that needs to be added to that bug or a new one needs to be made. I'll make a note of it right now and look into it, and if there's no bug and I can't fix it right away, I'll write it up as a bug. (:
<shaunm> it is noted in that bug
<shaunm> comments on that bug seem to mention a lot of issues. not sure what the root issue is
<littlegirl> Ah, okay. Well, the one I was working on that would interest you is the conditional inside the <info> tag. I can't get it to behave properly no matter how I code it (whether I do it inside the <desc> tag or outside of it or whether I toss some of the code outside of the <info> tag entirely.
<shaunm> "The if:choose element can occur in any general block context"
<shaunm> http://projectmallard.org/if/1.0/if_choose
<littlegirl> Yep, and I'm not sure if <info> qualifies as a block or not. (:
<shaunm> it does not
<shaunm> a block context is somewhere you could put a paragraph
<littlegirl> Ah, okay, so is there a way to do a conditional inside an <info> tag?
<shaunm> not at this time
<littlegirl> Yeah, that's what I was starting to figure, and since <info> is invisible, it can't hold a paragraph.
<littlegirl> shaunm: Could it be hacked by doing the conditional outside of the <info> tag entirely making the conditional point to two <info> tags, one of which gets chosen if the condition is satisfied?
<littlegirl> I know that would be a sloppy hack, but it would get the job done if it's allowed. (:
<shaunm> that won't work either
<shaunm> I'm afraid there's just currently no way to do what you're trying to do
<shaunm> do you actually use the same set of page files when users are running under gnome?
<littlegirl> I think so. I didn't write the page, and I'd have to study it thoroughly to see what can be done. I'm sure it can just be rewritten to tell the user what would have been automated by the conditional. I'll take a good look at it and see if I can at least sort that part out. Then I'll go after that bug and see if I can't get whoever put all the sloppy additions into it into separate bug reports. (:
<shaunm> it would probably help to start using version attributes and strict validation in yelp-check
<shaunm> unfortunately, there are some road blocks to doing that
<shaunm> I've solved those road blocks, but you won't see the solution until my patch is accepted in libxml2 and a new version is packaged :(
<shaunm> you can always still use the version attribute without strict validation to get better validation of your conditionals. you just won't have anything tell you when you forgot the version attribute
<littlegirl> It's currently pretty common to use the command (or a variant of the command) in the check_validation.sh file, which uses xmllint. Nobody on the doc team has ever suggested using yelp-check to validate the files. I tried it in the Ubuntu docs the other day and there are some issues that will need attention, and as soon as I get another issue sorted out I'll go after them with yelp-check. (:
<littlegirl> Does that mean in your new version (which sounds exciting!) there will be a way for those conditionals to happen?
<littlegirl> Or just that there will be a way to find out that a bad conditional was written?
<shaunm> you'll just know when the conditionals were written wrong
<shaunm> for those sorts of conditionals to work, we'll need a new version of conditionals on projectmallard.org
<shaunm> which can happen
<littlegirl> Cool. No hurry, though. I love your work, and would never want to do anything to make you frustrated with it. (:
<shaunm> for validation, the core mallard schema is intentionally very forgiving whenever it sees anything outside of the normal namespace. so when you use an if:when element just about anywhere, the schema basically says "I don't know what this is, so I'll just assume it's right"
<shaunm> that's the schema that's used by yelp-check if you don't use a version attribute, and almost certainly what your validation script uses
<littlegirl> Yep. All of those just get quietly ignored. At least all the variants I tried when I was doing if:choose, if:when, if: test, etc., etc., etc. in an attempt to get it to do it. I finally gave up and hunted you down. (:
<shaunm> but you can set the version attribute on the page element to tell the validator to load in schema plug-ins. if you load the plug-in for conditionals, then when the schema sees if:when, it does know what it is, and it actually checks if it's correct
<littlegirl> I'm not that advanced in the use of Mallard yet to fully understand that, but I'll do my best to learn those. I'm still digging through all the documentation I can find on Mallard and writing up my own personal reference, and I'm not up to plug-ins yet. (:
<shaunm> here's a good example: yelp-check validate color-assignprofiles.page
<shaunm> that passes, even though the conditionals are wrong
<shaunm> edit that file and put the attribute version="1.0 if/1.0" on the page element
<shaunm> re-run the command. witness the glory of validation errors
<littlegirl> Interesting. yelp-check validate *.page doesn't turn up any issues, either.
<shaunm> that's good. that means that everything that's in the normal namespace is correct
<shaunm> but it's not checking anything in if/1.0 or ui/1.0 or experimental or experimental/ui
<littlegirl> Ooooh, then I get: color-assignprofilestwo.page:5: element page: Relax-NG validity error : Expecting element title, got info
<littlegirl> color-assignprofilestwo.page:5: element page: Relax-NG validity error : Element page failed to validate content
<littlegirl> color-assignprofilestwo.page fails to validate
<littlegirl> Oh, I forgot to mention that I created a color-assignprofilestwo.page so I could leave the original one alone, and the two page is the one I put the version attribute into. (:
<littlegirl> So if I add that version attribute to all the pages they can be tested with yelp-check from now on?
<shaunm> they'll be tested much more strictly with yelp-check, yes
<shaunm> there's no need to do it on pages that don't use conditionals
<shaunm> though it doesn't hurt
<shaunm> files-copy.page uses the ui extension, so you could use version="1.0 ui/1.0" there
<shaunm> or even version="1.0 if/1.0 ui/1.0"
<littlegirl> These are the ones that are currently used, with line 7 being the one in the check_validation.sh file, but I prefer the last one: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6348233/
<shaunm> oh, one caveat: unless you've installed local copies of the schema and done black magic with xml catalog files, yelp-check will hit the internet to put together the schema for validation
<littlegirl> It slips right past all of those, though.
<littlegirl> That's okay. This is for the Ubuntu docs, and it should do that so that it's always up-to-date. On my local documentation, in which I'm converting all my personal documents to Mallard, I'll stick with xmllint.
<shaunm> there is a package you can install that gives you a local copy of the 1.0 schema and does the xml catalog black magic for you. but it only contains finalized specs, and conditionals isn't finalized yet
<shaunm> and I don't know if it's packaged for ubuntu
<shaunm> we should finalize conditionals soon
<littlegirl> It is, but I didn't install it.
<littlegirl> Will  version="1.0 if/1.0 ui/1.0" cover all eventualities and be a blanket attribute I can just add to all the docs to make it possible to yelp-check them all?
<shaunm> it covers everything ubuntu is using now *except* experimental features and embedded ITS
<shaunm> there will never be schemas for experimental features, and there's not currently a mallard schema plug-in for ITS
<littlegirl> I'm kind of surprised Ubuntu uses experimental features. That's not usually the Ubuntu way. (:
<shaunm> gnome does too
<littlegirl> Maybe that's why, then.
<shaunm> but I kind of need gnome to use them, or else they won't get tested. and the whole point of experimental features is to give them some real-world testing before they get put in a formal specification and I have to support them forever and ever
<littlegirl> True.
<littlegirl> So the 1.0 in that version attribute will coincide with the 1.0 in xmlns="http://projectmallard.org/1.0/" right? So if the Mallard version changes, the version attribute should follow suit, right?
<littlegirl> I'm testing the heck out of links right now. (:
<shaunm> if the Mallard version changes, you'd change the version attribute, but not the xmlns
<shaunm> unless it changes to a backwards-incompatible 2.0, which I have no plans on any time soon
<littlegirl> So you just leave the xmlns at 1.0?
<shaunm> yeah, I probably should have named the namespaces just 1 or even 1.x
<shaunm> if you change namespaces, you basically have to rewrite all the tools
<littlegirl> There are all kinds of philosophical discussions out on the internet on how to number software. I think it's six of one, half a dozen of the other when it comes to which way is best. (:
<shaunm> I followed soname naming conventions, which was probably a mistake because only C programmers understand it
<littlegirl> For my personal uses, I'll use it "out of the box" rather than bolting anything onto it. For Ubuntu, hopefully there are others who know how to do the fancy stuff so that can be updated properly. I've already seen some neat stuff (like mouse-over actions) that I don't yet know how to do, let alone maintain. (:
<moewe11> neither chrome nor firefox let me edit the following wiki entry
<moewe11> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Howto%3A%20Custom%20keyboard%20layout%20definitions
<moewe11> All I get is: "The address wasn't understood". Seems to be the colon in the URL which throws off the browsers
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-28
 * qwebirc653355 sighs
<LCCX> Hello. Can anyone tell me how to edit an "immutable page" on the Community Help Wiki, or where to leave a comment about one that is out of date, along with a link to up to date information?
<belkinsa> LCCX, do you have a LaunchPad account?
<LCCX> Is that the same as UbuntuOne ?
<belkinsa> Yes.
<LCCX> Yes.
<belkinsa> Can you see the log in botton the wiki page?
<LCCX> I clicked "log in to edit" at the *top* of the page...
<belkinsa> Does it take you to the Ubuntu SSO page?
<LCCX> "Personal Data Request" "You are logging in to http://help.ubuntu.com/community/" so yes?
<belkinsa> Yes.
<belkinsa> You might need to refresh the page after logging in
<belkinsa> The page that you want to edit, that is.
<LCCX> Where should the edit option be located? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SteamServer
<belkinsa> It should be in place of the "immutable page" message.
<belkinsa> Urg, come on, load already.
<belkinsa> Under the title of the page.
<belkinsa> You should see this, "    Edit
<belkinsa>     Page History
<belkinsa>     Attachments
<belkinsa>     More Actions:
<belkinsa> "
<LCCX> Does my account have to be a certain age, or have some other activation?
<LCCX> I still see "Immutable Page"
<belkinsa> It means that you have no LP account.  You need to create one to edit a wiki page.
<belkinsa> Sorry for not telling that first.
<belkinsa> The Wiki requests for your LP username.
<LCCX> Ah, okay. What is an "LP account", please?
<belkinsa> LaunchPad
<belkinsa> One sec
<LCCX> np
<LCCX> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu ?
<belkinsa> Yes, but just https://launchpad.net/
<belkinsa> The log in/sign in should on the top right of the page
<LCCX> Okay, thank you very much. :)
<belkinsa> Not a problem and there was wiki page that I was going to show you but I can't find it
<belkinsa> Anyways, after you get your LP account activated, you should be log in and edit that page.
<belkinsa> If not, I can help you with what is need to be edited.
<LCCX> Okay, cool. I'll try to get it activated after dinner.
<belkinsa> Okay
<LCCX> If you could just throw on the <<Include(Tag/NeedsUpdating)>> tag and link to
<belkinsa> Sure.
<LCCX> https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamCMD and http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=276173458 that would be great
<LCCX> The Steam software changed at some point in the past couple years to steamCMD from hlsd
<belkinsa> Where though?
<LCCX> I don't have it working myself yet, but hope to soon-ish.
<belkinsa> Okay, we can wait then.
<LCCX> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SteamServer sorry
<LCCX> so if anyone else runs across it, then they can see that the instructions currently there don't work
<belkinsa> Okay
<belkinsa> I added the tag, but not the links.  I think I might let you to do since you know where to place them.  Will that be okay?
<LCCX> Sure
<belkinsa> Cool.
<LCCX> Thanks.
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<belkinsa> Thank -you- for updating the page.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-26
<pmatulis> morning
<ahoneybun> p/
 * pmatulis saw venus, jupiter, and mars all bunched up this morning
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-27
<melodie> hello
<pmatulis> hello melodie , how are you today?
<melodie> hi pmatulis I'm getting tech infos at the #ubuntu-devel chan. What about you?
<melodie> well, about docs, I'm on this one that part: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization#Modify_pool_structure_to_include_more_packages
<pmatulis> melodie: interesting. thanks for being here
<melodie> pmatulis this is very nice of you! I'm mostly coming here when I do, to get help or advice :D
<melodie> pmatulis do you edit the docs sometimes?
<pmatulis> melodie: i work with the official Ubuntu Server documentation and doing some edits on the main help.ubuntu.com page. note the difference between official docs (server and desktop stuff on help.ubuntu.com) and the community wiki (help.ubuntu.com/community)
<melodie> are there official docs such as the one I pointed to?
<melodie> and projects to refresh all custom howto's ?
<pmatulis> melodie: what you pointed to was the community wiki. i don't know if we have an official docs version of it
<pmatulis> melodie: we're actively looking for people to help with the official docs
<melodie> everybody cries out for more people to contribute, and so do I. I would even be happy with only one or two persons helping
<melodie> I feel very alone :D
<melodie> although the community always helps me on things when I need info
<pmatulis> melodie: well, the wiki is one thing, and the actual docs are another
<melodie> pmatulis while I get it, my need is around doing a custom remix (I use the very basic Ubuntu Mini Remix up to now)
<pmatulis> melodie: feel free to come here when you're lonely :)
<melodie> pmatulis thanks! ^^
<melodie> if you find people who want to help this project, feel free to tell them about it: http://linuxvillage.org/en (description in the last post) and in http://bentovillage.me
<pmatulis> melodie: oh. you're not even writing ubuntu docs. ok
<melodie> I try to use them :D
<melodie> read, understand... use
<melodie> you are a provider and I'm a client XD
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-28
<pmatulis> morning
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-29
<pmatulis> morning
#ubuntu-doc 2017-10-30
<berz3rk> hello anyone online?
<berz3rk> can somone please remove my user page on the ubuntu wiki
<berz3rk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eduard%20Gotwig
<berz3rk> its heavily outdated
<berz3rk> willcooke: hey
<berz3rk> willcooke: can you please help me
<berz3rk> who ever sees this
<berz3rk> pls remove the page ;x
<pleia2> having a hard time matching up the usernames
<pleia2> that IRC nick seems to have nothing to do with the user page, we should see about confirming identity if they return
<pleia2> hm, actually, I'll drop them an email
#ubuntu-doc 2017-11-01
<ilpianista> 'morning all, could you please delete this wiki page? https://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/Bash it's about my very old account (semi-proof https://www.archlinux.org/news/welcome-andrea-scarpino/ ) I already asked in #ubuntu-it-doc since a week, but got no reply so far
#ubuntu-doc 2017-11-03
<ilpianista> hi, how do I ask a page deletion?
<ilpianista> from the wiki
<pleia2> ilpianista: hi there
<pleia2> you ask and we can look into it
<ilpianista> pleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/Bash it's about my very old account (semi-proof https://www.archlinux.org/news/welcome-andrea-scarpino/ ) I already asked in #ubuntu-it-doc since a week, but got no reply so far
<pleia2> ah yeah, nothing we can do about that, the italian team runs it
<ilpianista> sigh.
<pleia2> did you try #ubuntu-it ?
<ilpianista> nope
<pleia2> might have more people, some folks there could have access
<ilpianista> ok let's try, thank you! pleia2
<pleia2> sure, good luck :)
