#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-28
<micahg> mr_pouit: so it seems that xfce 7362
<micahg> hasn't been fixed yet
<micahg> I have 4.8.2-1
<mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/743999 sigh
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 743999 in Ubuntu "11.04 conflict between xfce4-notifyd and notification-daemon prevents upgrade to 11.04 from 10.10" [Undecided,New]
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, it has been fixed in git a few days ago
<mr_pouit> I can include the patch after the beta
<micahg> mr_pouit: so, 4.8.2 isn't fixed then?
<mr_pouit> no, it's not in 4.8.2
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, is that the correct upstream bug?  can I assign to you and milestone for beta 2?
<mr_pouit> yep, it looks like the correct one, feel free to do that
<mr_pouit> I'll include commits from the xfce-4.8 branch if they fix bugs anyway
<micahg> mr_pouit: cool, thanks
<mr_pouit> grmpf, alacarte seems rather useless to edit menus in xfce
<mr_pouit> if there's a desktop file with OnlyShowIn=XFCE; it won't show it :}
<micahg> mr_pouit: sounds like a bug ;)
<mr_pouit> micahg: I'm not sure about that, because it uses python-gmenu for that
<mr_pouit> so I'd say "design decision", rather than a bug :(
<mr_pouit> g being gnome ;>
<micahg> heh
<mr_pouit> micahg: another topic: do you know how firefox checks if it is the default browser? Because here, on a clean natty install, on the first launch it asks me whether I want it as default or not.
<micahg> heh, open bug :)
<micahg> bug 732792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 732792 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox claims that it's not my default browser; repeatedly in guest session too" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732792
<mr_pouit> okay, thanks, it's probably not an xfce bug then
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Aquina> 'lo
<charlie-tca> We are testing the Natty Narwhal Beta1 images this week. If anyone has a spare partition or computer to test with, we need to do hardware testing.
<charlie-tca> Testing should be started tomorrow, since the images will be rebuilt at least one more time
 * micahg cries, not a good week :(
<charlie-tca> Sorry to hear that. Going to be a long week, huh?
<Aquina> I think I can help testing at the weekend...
<charlie-tca> That would be after beta1, but every test helps us improve things
<Aquina> :-)
<Aquina> I'm still running legacy hardy on two wokstations. I've got to get these Systems sane first...
<charlie-tca> yes, that is a good idea
<micahg> charlie-tca: still cleaning up after this and related updates: http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2011/03/22/firefox-blocking-fraudulent-certificates/
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah. You get to do that, don't you?
<micahg> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-29
<charlie-tca> slideshow is not up to date on the beta1 images
<ochosi> charlie-tca: really? that's a pity
<ochosi> charlie-tca: have you tested it from bzr yet?
<charlie-tca> no
<ochosi> well, i can recommend it ;)
<charlie-tca> I need to test what is there now.
<ochosi> sure thing
<mr_pouit> did you ping dylan about that?
<Sysi> where would i grab beta1-image for testing? i'll propably have time this week
<davmor2> Sysi: from cdimages.ubuntu.com
<davmor2> Sysi: go into the xubuntu folder then choose daily (alternate) or daily-live for iso type
<Sysi> ah, just that
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Aquina> 'lo
<charlie-tca> all images are being rebuilt for beta1 testing at this time. the image dated 2011-03-29 will not be valid for testing
<charlie-tca> New images are ready for beta1 testing.
<charlie-tca> upgrade from maverick to natty, started with 4 workspaces in maverick, get 1 workspace in natty
<charlie-tca> on hardware
<charlie-tca> bug 745207
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745207 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 10.10 to Natty, there is only one workspace" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745207
<charlie-tca> both 32bit and 64bit did the same thing
<Sysi> not other errors?
<charlie-tca> none I saw
<micahg> charlie-tca: so, apparently, there are no armel images yet
<charlie-tca> something about another 14 or so hours to build them?
<micahg> charlie-tca: I was told they won't be ready until next week
<charlie-tca> heh, even longer then. 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-30
<charlie-tca> wOw!
<charlie-tca> new colors in the alternate image installer are great!
<charlie-tca> Threw me off so bad I screwed the install up though
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I haven't been paying attention (sorry) will the new slideshow make beta1?
<charlie-tca> no, it did not
<pleia2> aw
<charlie-tca> Well, there is still Beta2!
<pleia2> yes :)
<charlie-tca> We can do it... :-)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> New slideshow made the beta1 image!
<charlie-tca> must have been part of the "tons of updates" done before the last respin
<charlie-tca> Looks real good
<davmor2> charlie-tca: No surely not tons of updates on the week of a release :D
<charlie-tca> heh, I couldn't believe it either ;-)
<charlie-tca> actually, the day of the builds for testing, even better
<davmor2> charlie-tca: No that would never happen surely
<charlie-tca> I could be wrong... nope
<davmor2> charlie-tca: This is the Ubuntu release team we're talking about here.......Oh wait yeah I remember now the 02:00 finishes to get a release out on time due to respins at the last minute :D
<charlie-tca> yeah, that's it. been a while, huh?
<ochosi> nice, good to hear you like the slideshow
<ochosi> we put quite some effort into it
<charlie-tca> It shows
<charlie-tca> You both did great with it. It is much better now!
<ochosi> thanks
<pleia2> yay re: slideshow!
<ochosi> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-31
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/746111
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 746111 in Xubuntu Website "Xubuntu website has incorrect hardware requirement information" [Low,New]
<pleia2> should I just s/192/256 on the site?
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/getubuntu
<knome> s/256/512/ s/192/256/ s/128/192/
<pleia2> sounds good to me
<knome> let's go for that for now, and rethink that after natty
<pleia2> ok
<knome> imo
<knome> we probably need to rethink most of the texts in the website anyway with the new site, so this can wait for that as well
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> ok, updated the ticket so we know what the original text was, and fix committed
<pleia2> thanks knome :)
<knome> no problem
<pleia2> s/committed/released!
<knome> hihi
<knome> pleia2, btw
<knome> the site says "Visit the Fridge"
<knome> but that's called the ubuntu news...
<pleia2> fridge is having an identity crisis
<knome> heh
<knome> x)
<knome> okay..
<knome> you probably knew, but the shot at "What is Xubuntu?" is QUITE old
<pleia2> yeah, if someone wants to screenshot a maverick I'd be happy to put it up
<knome> heh
<knome> does it need to be default layout? :P
<pleia2> yeah, that's why I haven't done it yet :)
<knome> yeah..
<pleia2> I should just toss it on a vm real quick, but I r teh lazy
<pleia2> lemme make a bug and then it will annoy me enough to do it
<knome> well, we'll get to change that image as well ;)
<knome> haha, well okay, if that makes you do it
<knome> we need to take new shots when natty is released anyway
<knome> so is it worth it?
 * pleia2 shrugs
<pleia2> I think there are a few other screenshots on the site, I should really just go through the whole thing and inventory
<knome> yeah
<knome> there are quite a meny
<knome> *many
<pleia2> plus it'll give me a list for every release when we need to go screenshot happy
<knome> unless we add/remove shots :)
<pleia2> oh, thoughts on making our wiki less eye-bleeding?
<knome> our wiki?
<pleia2> wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<knome> right, that
<pleia2> I'm thinking just making all the blocks light blue
<pleia2> the first one is ok, the other 3 are :(
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/MenuNew
<knome> that's an idea.
<pleia2> orange on dark blue is hard to read
<pleia2> actually I guess dark blue is ok, it's that medium blue that's the trouble
<pleia2> I like that though, aside from the middle one
<knome> i know, but the colors are pretty easy to change
<knome> well, the non-link colors
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> charlie-tca does such a good job at keeping our meeting notes up to date
 * knome tries not to giggle and burst to tears at the same time
<knome> btw, the new smiley's at the wiki are awful
<pleia2> the new branding ones?
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> hm, they are worse than I remember
<knome> yeah
<knome> !
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/MenuNew
<pleia2> oh, nice
<pleia2> ok, I'll poke some people about putting that one in
<pleia2> my eyes will be so much happier
<knome> heh
<knome> can't we just put that in right now?
<pleia2> I dunno, I don't want to upset anyone :)
<knome> hah
<knome> i want to
<knome> ;]
<pleia2> upset people?
<pleia2> hehhe :P
<knome> no i mean, it's an improvement for everybody
<pleia2> yeah, ok, it's a wiki, we can revert if there are protests in the street
<pleia2> it looks good and is readable, unlike now
<knome> in the street? i ain't going outside, so no worries, but if they come in...
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> yay!
<knome> well yeah
<pleia2> that looks very good knome, thank you :)
<knome> i know we have the governance where everything goes through charlie-tca, but that takes a long time, and i actually showed that to charlie already and the only concern was the colors
<pleia2> ah good
<knome> i think we need some padding
<knome> i added some padding
<knome> should look more clean now, the wiki header
<pleia2> yeah that's good
<knome> i think i'll hit the bed now
<pleia2> night knome :)
<knome> 3am, and i'm planning to go to city @noon tomorrow
<pleia2> good luck
<knome> night, and have a nice day!
<charlie-tca> back from dinner
<pleia2> wb charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> pleia2: can we use natty screenshots on the website, we are only 4 weeks from release now
<pleia2> charlie-tca: ok, maybe from the natty beta1 tomorrow?
<pleia2> I'll toss up a VM and get screenshotting
<pleia2> or just wait until release
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> I can do a hardware install and screenshot it if you want
<pleia2> yeah, that works too :)
<charlie-tca> I don't have one handy, my last installs were for Ubuntu
<pleia2> I need to toss up a beta1 vm this week to make sure I'm ready for the jam this weekend anyway
<charlie-tca> I think I did about 16 sat and sun, and another 8 or 10 today
<pleia2> nice :)
<Aquina> 'o
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Do we want to do any blueprints for UDS this time?
<charlie-tca> cut off for them is May 5
<ochosi> sry, i'm not really sure i know what the blueprints are about/good for, could you elaborate a bit?
<charlie-tca> they are what is normally used to decide all the major changes for each release
<charlie-tca> UDS is a place to take the blueprints, discuss them, and make the decisions. That way things get decided within the first month and the blueprint gives the plan to implement the changes
<ochosi> but you're talking about xubuntu specific blueprints in our case, right?
<charlie-tca> right
<ochosi> do you think anyone will care about those at UDS?
<mr_pouit> no ;D
<charlie-tca> Instead of waiting to discuss the changes in meetings and then the ML, we could blueprint it and track it easier, maybe
<charlie-tca> I was asked last time if there were any xubuntu sessions
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> charlie-tca: are you going to UDS?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you going to UDS this time or is that just not your thing?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: hopefully, yes. as QA
<ochosi> k
<charlie-tca> I go for the QA stuff, accessibility, and then try to keep things from running Xubuntu over in the process
<charlie-tca> There has been at least one change at two UDS
<ochosi> yes?
<charlie-tca> that did not take place that would have adversely affected us
<ochosi> what was that change?
<charlie-tca> Sure, ask me that
<mr_pouit> no, I don't go to UDS, as I don't know what I could do there :}
<charlie-tca> 40 sessions + each UDS, my brain doesn't remember details well. I just remember getting my side of it in
<charlie-tca> this will be my second in-person UDS.
<ochosi> i'm just wondering what we would gain from UDS (apart from opinions/feedback of ubuntu people) especially if we have to implement the changes we want ourselves anyway
<charlie-tca> I can understand that, mr_pouit . Unless we pushed all the Xubuntu changes through the blueprints, it doesn't affect Xubuntu as a project so much
<charlie-tca> That would depend on how many of us got there, too
<ochosi> mmh
<mr_pouit> ochosi: moreover, we don't want to control the xfce development, and don't want to overpatch everything ;>
<ochosi> mr_pouit: completely agree with you on that. if there were a xfce-DS that might make more sense for us :)
<charlie-tca> I would like to see us get rid of more gnome dependencies if possible. Also, I stll want midori ;-)
<ochosi> yes, more xfce-apps would be cool
<charlie-tca> I fear we will see more dependencies as Xfce incorporates accessibility into 4.10
<ochosi> actually one thing i would really love to see is some alternative to xscreensaver
<charlie-tca> It is better then gnome-screensaver in actual use. What else do we have to pick from?
<ochosi> not sure there's much else tbh
<ochosi> my search has mainly turned up those two
<ochosi> and iirc mr_pouit said that gnome-screensaver has gained a few really bad dependencies
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Changes were made to the wiki last night. 
<ochosi> so actually it doesn't seem like we have a choice
<charlie-tca> Has anyone noticed?
<ochosi> not yet
<ochosi> xubuntu wiki?
<charlie-tca> yup
<ochosi> or generally the ubuntu wiki
<ochosi> right
<charlie-tca> header
<ochosi> let me have a look
<charlie-tca> I don't use the default theme, and it fails bad now
<charlie-tca> Borders are around the boxes, and show up in "rightsidebar" theme, at least
<ochosi> it feels a bit snappier
<charlie-tca> Works a little better as far as colors with the orange, in the default theme
<charlie-tca> but it feels like a work in progress, if it won't work with other themes besides the default
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> i'll try to switch themes now (was using "ubuntu" before)
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/145887 is what I get now
<ochosi> yeah, looks kinda odd
<charlie-tca> It doesn't fit the page, borders should not be there, and under Contribute, the links run together bad
<ochosi> the light theme seems to work ok
<ochosi> at least better than most other themes
<charlie-tca> We need to find a way to make the links separate, on all the themes
<charlie-tca> I kind of like the table under xubuntu, but it too looks wrong, with the extra little column on the end
<ochosi> yes, that's definitely not nice code
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what do you think of just collecting ideas for natty+1 internally somewhere instead of UDS blueprints? (maybe even on a wiki-page)
<ochosi> you can still discuss the things that are ready by UDS with the people there and get feedback
<charlie-tca> Kind of like adding something to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap, either directly on the page or an additional draft page?
<charlie-tca> I don't think I can ever learn to spell owneyerick correctly, though
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: maybe it's a good idea to start with a rather blank page and move the items that have been discussed somehow to the roadmap page
<ochosi> that way there would be some intermediary step to help us distinguish between "approved"/"discussed" items and proposed items
<charlie-tca> damn, too slow typing. I agree
<ochosi> ok cool
<charlie-tca> We could add an O page and start in
<ochosi> good
<ochosi> i already have a few ideas for greybird, and maybe we can add a list of apps we'
<charlie-tca> Will you do that, with a link off the Roadmap page?
<ochosi> d like to review for oneiric as well
<ochosi> yeah, good idea
<charlie-tca> Great! Thanks 
<charlie-tca> I give up putting in claws-mail, it just doesn't have the user interface, unless we consider our users advanced.
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<ochosi> maybe we can review postler for oneiric
<ochosi> the development has been steady there lately
<charlie-tca> What is it?
<ochosi> it's a pretty simplistic mail-client (same dev as midori)
<charlie-tca> Really? I will go find it then and look at it
<ochosi> yes, there should be a ppa already iirc
<charlie-tca> um, as a side note, Ubuntu may go to Thunderbird this time, too.
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> at least that would mean more messaging menu integration
<ochosi> oh, one more note on postler: as you will quickly notice it only supports imap, so no pop emails :)
<charlie-tca> How many more dependencies will it create (with gnome), I wonder?
<charlie-tca> people still use pop?
<ochosi> no clue :)
<ochosi> i wouldn't use pop
<ochosi> i think it's ok, but it's one of the very few shortcomings of postler
<charlie-tca> I will go looking for that too, then. If it is still needed for a large population, we will have to support it
<ochosi> also be sure to check out the address-application called "dexter", in the same ppa
<charlie-tca> also, what about migration?
<ochosi> with imap you won't need much migration
<ochosi> but you can import mailboxes afaik
<charlie-tca> I got about 15,000 messages in claws-mail
<ochosi> right
<charlie-tca> not to mention, the about 100 folders
<ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~postler-dev/+archive/ppa
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> but you have all those messages in claws as an offline archive?
<ochosi> (meaning: not on your imap server)
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> I store very few on the imap server
<charlie-tca> I don't have enough space to keep them there
<ochosi> right, i thought keeping the emails there was the reason for imap
<charlie-tca> well, it works if the message base isn't too big, but mine is something like montrous
<charlie-tca> I could be wrong about the size on my hard drive, too.
<ochosi> charlie-tca: one last thing, it might be worth posting a notice to the ML to invite everyone to contribute ideas for oneiric
<charlie-tca> Agreed. 
<charlie-tca> That's why I brought blueprints. I think we need to get an email out and get things rolling soon
<beardygnome> hi charlie-tca are you around?
<knome> beardygnome, anything i can help with?
<beardygnome> not sure knome
<beardygnome> i emailed charlie earlier in the week and was wondering if he'd had a chnace to look at it yet
<knome> what was it about
<beardygnome> i was wondering how flexible the weekly meeting times / dates were
<knome> i suppose not so flexible, but we can propose to change the regular time
<beardygnome> my personal circumstances are changing and thursdays aren't going to be practical for me going forward
<beardygnome> on the other hand, i don't want to put everyone else to any inconvenience
<knome> the thursday evenings are not very well for me either
<beardygnome> so i wouldn't be the only one who'd benefit from a change then....
<knome> yup
<micahg> charlie-tca: guessing there's no meeting today
<knome> hihi
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> They said last time that we were going to skip this time
 * pleia2 nods
 * micahg seems to have missed that
<knome> there was no message to the devel ML though, so people who didn't attend didn't know about that
 * micahg attend, but was only partially present
<charlie-tca> right, I am behind on meeting minutes, but the logs are available to anyone that wants to write them up, too
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: looking into possible days and times
<beardygnome> thanks charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Sorry, micahg. I got caught up trying to get the candidates tested and lost track of messages
<charlie-tca> Hello, vinnl 
<charlie-tca> not out yet
<charlie-tca> well, unless you read OMG! Ubuntu
<vinnl> Hi
<vinnl> Crap
<vinnl> Haha I thought I'd ask here first :P
<charlie-tca> If you need to, release it and we will be okay.
<charlie-tca> We really need to make sure we do made the announcements this time around. 
<vinnl> How long will it take? I've got a few little things I've still got to do
<vinnl> Yeah
<charlie-tca> by the way, news goes to the planet now, too
<vinnl> Yeah I saw, great :)
<charlie-tca> There are some edits being made to the Ubuntu web site for the announcement, then it will be made.
<charlie-tca> Tried to give you some things to work with in the release notes. Do we do our own notes for the Beta2 now, since it repaces the RC?
<vinnl> I don't know, I've never really made release notes
<charlie-tca> heh, me either
<charlie-tca> but I learn quick... 
<vinnl> Wasn't there some guy a while ago who offered to do it and did it once?
<charlie-tca> yes, and hasn't been heard from since
<charlie-tca> Want to try it that way again for the final? I thought maybe I could throw something together, since I have a pretty good idea of where we went and what we are doing now.
<vinnl> That last option should be fine, I guess
<vinnl> Anyway, my laptop broke down, which I had imported from the US, and tech support is online now, which means I have reasons to stay online too :P
<charlie-tca> Sorry, that makes it much harder to get things done with it.
<charlie-tca> vinnl: announcement went out just a few minutes ago. Let's go ahead with ours, too.
<pleia2> \o/
 * Unit193 should probably subscribe to the ML...
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for the great work done to get this Natty Narwhal Beta1 out! It is shaping up to be a really good release, and I think we will gain users because of all your work!
 * micahg hopes people like gmusicbrowser :)
<ochosi> micahg: sure thing ;)
<charlie-tca> How could they not like it?
<micahg> ochosi: did you talk to squentin?
<knome> for the same reason they didn't like when we presented exaile as the default music player? :P
<micahg> knome: exaile wasn't that great
<ochosi> micahg: yes, he was a bit hesitant at first but i guess he'll release a new version sometime soon so it'll supersede the version in debian
<knome> neither is gmusicbrowser for all users
<knome> o hai ochosi 
<ochosi> well, people seem to realise those things one release late
<ochosi> bluebird is having a pretty good phase again atm :)
<ochosi> all in all i think we have nothing to worry about
<ochosi> we did a lot of good work and i think 11.04 will be so much better than 10.10
<micahg> yep, I think 4.8 by itself is a big draw
<ochosi> yes
<charlie-tca> change is hard for some of us, even when it is for the best.
<charlie-tca> I think I will wait for alpha2 on oneiric before I upgrade from natty
<ochosi> yeah, i'm kinda wondering what suprises the ubuntu-folks keep for us in oneiric
<ochosi> maybe more gtk-hacking
<ochosi> (and maybe more breakage)
<micahg> well, there will be finishing the port to gnome3 and the start of deprecation of the unsupported gnome2 pieces
<charlie-tca> We will have that. Also, they do not intend to keep the fallback for oneiric. It will only have Unity, apparently.
 * micahg guesses it'll be installable, just not available in the default install
<knome> judging from what happened with kubuntu in 8.04, i'm sure they don't want to make it unaccessible
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-01
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<knome> Spotify support for gmusicbrowser
<knome> The Shimmer Project has decided to give a free Spotify account for a month to everybody using gmusicbrowser, alongside their new Spotify plugin for gmusicbrowser, which is to be released late tonight. Those who want the free Spotify account are asked to send email to spotify@shimmerproject.org along with their name and a screenshot or a photograph of them using gmusicbrowser.
<knome> This offer is valid for one week from now, so act quickly.
<knome> http://shimmerproject.org/2011/04/spotify-support-for-gmusicbrowser/
<charlie-tca> knome: are you going to fix the header for the wiki to work in all themes? It might be better to go back to the old header and just change the color
<knome> charlie-tca, is there still problems? i changed the background color to veyr light blue. can you maybe send me a screenshot so i can see what would work with the link colors for you
<knome> *very
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/145887
<knome> right... that doesn't look so bad to my eyes really
<knome> it's not *beautiful*, but it works
<charlie-tca> It is not the color, it is the code used. It does not lkook complete at all when not using the 
<charlie-tca> default theme
<knome> hmm... yeah
<charlie-tca> Why have I got those borders? Why are the links running together?
<knome> so maybe remove the table borders?
<knome> the links are pretty much as supposed to be
<charlie-tca> Why can't it fit the page now?
<knome> fit the page?
<charlie-tca> The links then need to be re-done
<charlie-tca> The header is using about 2/3 of the page in the screenshot
<knome> mmh
<knome> have to look at that
<charlie-tca> It should be the same size as the text
<knome> that's definitely something about the theme you're using
<charlie-tca> It is not just this theme. It is all the themes except the default
<knome> right
<charlie-tca> The old header fit
<knome> that's really weird
<knome> it has the same tablestyle as the old onw
<knome> *one
<charlie-tca> It might be better to keep the old header and just change the colors
<knome> imo not, i'll rather fix this
<charlie-tca> That was the issue with it, right?
<knome> being ugly as well
<charlie-tca> It was not ugly, it was desig
<charlie-tca> it was designed by cody-somerville, and that makes you decide it was bad
<knome> no, i didn't know it was designed by cody
<knome> and i did a refresh for it, if you don't remember
<charlie-tca> It worked a lot better than this is. This looks half finished now
<knome> please don't assume i'm bashing all the work others have done
<charlie-tca> I am sorry for that statement then. I thought you knew
<charlie-tca> But I really need a nice header that works in all the themes for the wiki.
<knome> yeah, i'll try to fix the new one
<knome> i didn't know it broke in all the other themes
<charlie-tca> I like the colors, I will work on the links to make them more useable.
<charlie-tca> You work on making the header look right, okay?
<knome> yup, i'm working on it right now
<charlie-tca> You are good with the design features. I have a lot of experience fixing links to look right
<charlie-tca> I won't touch it today. and maybe not until next week. I can play on my own wiki to make it look like the links fit. 
<charlie-tca> Maybe I didn't notice them on the old one because it spread them out more. I understand the need to squash it to fit the new non-resizing wiki defaults, but hopefully, we can make it all work.
<knome> how does the menu look now?
<knome> is it as spread
<charlie-tca> what the hell do I have to do in FF4 to get the page refreshed now?
<knome> ctrl+r ?
<knome> or click the button right to the location bar
<charlie-tca> didn't work. I wound up clearing history, and have to log in again
<charlie-tca> Nothing like the long way to refresh, huh?
<knome> heh
<charlie-tca> make the borders invisible, too, please
<knome> sure
<charlie-tca> It does fit better
<knome> did it work now?
<knome> okay
<charlie-tca> I think
<knome> actually for me, there is no change
<knome> that must be because i edited the MenuNew page
<knome> :P
<charlie-tca> I might be wrong and did not work. 3.6 shows the short header, 4.0 shows it longer ?
<knome> well, it's better now
<knome> but still not 100%
<charlie-tca> yes, that is an improvement. 
<charlie-tca> and does it still fit with the default theme, too?
<knome> probably
<knome> hard to test several themes per time, but it really much should
<knome> as the width values are now percents
<charlie-tca> that new theme is a pain to work with. We told them making it fixed width was bad for accessibility, but they shoved it through anyway, with a promise to work on it.
<knome> it's working more or less now
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> that just resized to the text width
<knome> yup, all the 'sections' are now 25%
<charlie-tca> That does make a difference. 
<micahg> knome: you need another FFe to get a new plugin in
<knome> micahg, the help stuff wouldn't necessarily be plugin, and it doesn't matter if it was after natty release. it would just be cool to get it in natty *one day*, since gmb became the default in natty
<micahg> knome: new features are only allowed in -backports unless there's a tech board exception
<charlie-tca> Team Reports are due this week for March 2011. I plan on seeing this wiki update in there.
<knome> micahg, SRU then
<knome> micahg, i mean, it's a bit comical if one can't get a "Help" -link in...
<charlie-tca> knome, micahg, ochosi, pleia2 : are all invited to make updates to the Team Report too
<micahg> knome: no, features aren't allowed in an SRU
<charlie-tca> It is the Team Report, not the Team Leader must type everything Report
<knome> if something that gives help in using things X is a feature, then it sucks.
<charlie-tca> micahg: can we get an FFe for the plugin?
<charlie-tca> micahg: can we get an FFe for the plugin?
<micahg> charlie-tca: it can go right behind bug 747014 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747014 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "Major Natty regression: No fish!" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747014
<charlie-tca> sorry I asked ;-)
<knome> ;]
<charlie-tca> Maybe I could file a bug report about there being too many bug reports?
<knome> maybe
<charlie-tca> for the record: I hate April 1 a lot
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I just ignore the internet all day except for obvious jokes that people point out
 * pleia2 quite liked http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=21-24+Millbank+London+SW1P+4QP++United+Kingdom&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Millbank+Tower,+21-24+Millbank,+London,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.492774,-0.12454&spn=0.005571,0.013937&z=17
<pleia2> (ubuntu related!)
<micahg> haha
<micahg> did Google do that?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> charlie-tca: created 11/March and added website stuff
<charlie-tca> heh?
<charlie-tca> team report?
<charlie-tca> Great!
<pleia2> love the slideshow :)
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I have a bunch of stupid testing questions but I want to go through the docs a bit more thoroughly before asking, will you be around this evening or tomorrow much?
<pleia2> I'm putting together a little flier for our global jam on sunday and want to make sure the live testing process is properly described
<charlie-tca> I can be around, yes. I will make an effort to be around all weekend with the global jam going, even if it is in and out at times
<pleia2> ok, I'm sure I'll catch you then :)
<charlie-tca> Questions are good. It helps to get the documentation correct for anyone to use. 
<charlie-tca> I wrote it so I could understand it, but that doesn't always work.
<mr_pouit> FYI, existing natty users might experience a breakage of their panel config because of my latest changes (this is necessary to fix a more annoying bug).
<pleia2> I think my current challenge is reconciling http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit ...
<pleia2> but I'll ask questions when I read more :)
<charlie-tca> We only use the qa tracker during the milestone pre-testing
<charlie-tca> It won't be used again now until right before the beta2 release
<pleia2> ok, good to know
<pleia2> so I just have people use the wiki page, and do regular apport bug reporting?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I see you could not reproduce my workspace bug. I can do it reliably, too.
<charlie-tca> On two different hardware systems, to further mess things up
<charlie-tca> I suspect we will see duplicates come in against that bug when the final release happens
<mr_pouit> (sorry for the config breakage, but otherwise users will be hit by Bug #747137)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747137 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "When drag-droping application from menu to panel random application apperars" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747137
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yeah, I'll retry later to reproduce
<charlie-tca> yeah, I saw that report too. We will be okay, in the long run
<mr_pouit> ah, interesting, it might not break too much existing configs after all
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-02
<mr_pouit> hoy
<mr_pouit> has anyone contacted the 2nd wp author?
<mr_pouit> because I still only have 1 wp in xubuntu-wallpapers ;-)
<mr_pouit> and 2nd question: is someone taking care of xubuntu-docs 11.04?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: something in the updates is taking out the panels, and people are unable to restore them using xfce4-panel
<charlie-tca> in natty
<mr_pouit> log out, then "rm -f $HOME/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml" in a vt, then log back in
<mr_pouit> it will restore the default panel layout
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<mr_pouit> (but you must have the latest xfce4-panel and xubuntu-default-settings)
<charlie-tca> hm, so if they go to a vt, they can always run updates first
<mr_pouit> they can also do it in their session: "xfce4-panel -q", then "xfconf-query -c xfce4-panel -p /panels -r -R", "xfconf-query -c xfce4-panel -p /plugins -r -R", then ALT+F2 "xfce4-panel", and it should do the same
<PsynoKhi0> hi
<TheSheep> !hi | PsynoKhi0 
<TheSheep> hm, wrong channel :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-03
 * pleia2 waves to charlie-tca from their xubuntu jam
<pleia2> yay, hi jyo1 :)
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I have a couple bugs to file but I need some "what package to file this against" help
<pleia2> one of them is window resizing with compositing enabled, the windows go all wireframe rather than being transparent/opaque
 * pleia2 searches bugs in meantime
 * charlie-tca waves back
<charlie-tca> xfwm4
<pleia2> awesome thanks, it does this with moving and resizing, single bug or separate?
<charlie-tca> single bug
<pleia2> also, when I load up firefox it says it's not my default browser and offers to change it
<charlie-tca> Thanks for helping out with testing this s
<charlie-tca> Yeah, That 's the latest thing with firefox, and you have to uncheck the "do this check everytime" box to get it to quit
<pleia2> jyo1 is here from my loco team doing live testing too :)
<charlie-tca> Great!
<pleia2> ok, so no bug for that one then, it's just how it is
<charlie-tca> Hello, jyo1 
<pleia2> silly firefox
<charlie-tca> right
<pleia2> charlie-tca: oh, in the instructions for firefox it mentions "Go to Help -> Help Contents" - that doesn't seem to exist (there is just Firefox Help), I figure this is just a bug with the testing documentation
<pleia2> in short livecd testing
<charlie-tca>  yes, it is. We just want to be sure Help is working from the application menus. 
<pleia2> jyo1: bug is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/749665
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 749665 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Windows are wireframe when move & resize even with compositing" [Undecided,New]
<charlie-tca> Thank you for filing that one.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: we compared notes and he has the same thing happening, he just selected the "affects me too" - is there anything else he can do?
<charlie-tca> If he wants to, he can comment that he sees the same thing, which helps to confirm it for us.
<charlie-tca> It is always good to have two people say they have the same thing happening, and then have the rest click the "affects me too" button.
<pleia2> ok, thank you :)
<charlie-tca> Either way is fine, though. either myself or mr_pouit will attempt to reproduce, and forward the bugs to Xfce when needed.
<pleia2> 4.8 is really nice
<charlie-tca> Agreed. Also, I don't see the panel crashes with it that I had with the other versions.
<mr_pouit> pleia2:  could you give the output of "xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/box_move" and "xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/box_resize" please?
<pleia2> mr_pouit: true
<mr_pouit> okay
<mr_pouit> Then, please run "xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/box_move -t bool -s false" and "xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/box_resize -t bool -s false"
<mr_pouit> and retry to move a window
<pleia2> I fixed up quoting and ran: xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p "/general/box_move" -t bool -s false and "xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/box_resize -t bool -s false"
<pleia2> that fixed it for move :)
<pleia2> oh, "and"
<mr_pouit> yeah, they are two distinct commands, sorry
<pleia2> yay
<pleia2> that fixed it
<pleia2> lemme try changing transparency
<pleia2> works
<mr_pouit> okay, thanks for testing
<pleia2> thanks mr_pouit :)
<mr_pouit> please reassign the bug to xubuntu-default-settings
<pleia2> ok
<mr_pouit> I'll put them to false by default
<pleia2> charlie-tca: in the testing instructions it tells you to enable compositing for some of the tests, but it defaults to on (probably just another update to the testing doc)
<charlie-tca> New change for 4.8, then
<charlie-tca> pleia2: fixed the test page
<charlie-tca> triaged the bug
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I'm thinking this could use a refresh in the next cycle: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing
 * pleia2 going through website looking for bugs
<charlie-tca> I am sure it could.
<charlie-tca> It just kind of appeared one day
<pleia2> probably won't finish today, but I'm going to create some content bugs so we can be sure to refresh a bunch during the move to wordpress
<charlie-tca> We don't have Malone anymore, it is all Launchpad now
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> hey pleia2 
<pleia2> hey knome 
<knome> i suppose there is no news about staging.www.xubuntu.org?
<pleia2> no news
<pleia2> I will follow up on the bug report now
 * knome just ate something way too hot way too much
<knome> my tongue is aching
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> not in the "wow this was hot" way but the "i'm dying" way
<knome> ;)
<knome> well not that bad anymore but.. ;)
<knome> i just accidentally poured >1 tsp in my food
<knome> "oops"
<pleia2> nice job
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> ok, replied to the ticket
<knome> need to be more careful next time :)
<knome> pleia2, thanks for the CC
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-26
<ochosi> have any of you seen this xubuntu-based distro before? http://mystras.cloudfactory.eu/
<ochosi> (just stumbled across it by chance)
<ochosi> unfortunately there's not really anything for us to benefit from. it seems to be just a mashup of xubuntu and elementary
<knome> ochosi, "built around the compiz window manager" :P
<knome> they even copied the 3-year old documentation template: http://win.cloudfactory.eu/Mystras/pages/gallery_files/05022013.png
<knome> http://win.cloudfactory.eu/Mystras/pages/gallery_files/05022015.png <- is that nautilus?
<ochosi> knome: no, that's marlin
<knome> k
<ochosi> i also suspect that "they" is only one
<knome> me too
<ochosi> btw, from what i tested yesterday in precise there are quite a few apps not providing >48px appicons
<knome> yup
<ochosi> so it might be easier to compile a list of those that actually look crisp in tabwin :)
<ochosi> but in the end it's something i'd like to discuss with mr_pouit because some apps would need patches to provide larger app-icons
<ochosi> knome: do you have time/motivation to draw 64px icons for apps? ("draw" as in: port 48px svgs to 64px svgs)
<knome> wouldn't just strecthing go?
<ochosi> yeah, i guess. that's what i did for gmusicbrowser anyway
<ochosi> i'll quickly test it with the text-editor icon
<ochosi> knome: see the nice difference between the two text-editors: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03262012-124625pm.php
<ochosi> (it's only stretched)
<knome> y
<ochosi> but then again, it seems that leafpad only provides a 48px icon
<ochosi> because i added its appicon as well as gedits
<ochosi> so it might need a patch
<knome> mh
<ochosi> oki, anyway, i'm off till late or tomorrow
<ochosi> (most likely)
<knome> again
<knome> bleh
<ochosi> again what?
<knome> again off ;)
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> yeah well, i might be kinda online but not able to do much anyway in the afternoon
<knome> hehe
<knome> k
<ochosi> btw, i just read in gtk's roadmap that this is supposedly possible with gtk3.4: https://gitorious.org/gnome-design/gnome-design/blobs/master/mockups/theming/unfocused-window.png
<knome> heh
<knome> nice, i think
<ochosi> yes, would be good to try to get that
<ochosi> although it'd set apart gtk2 and gtk3 apps even further
<knome> hard to say if it's actually nice before i've used it for a while
<ochosi> which is bad for xfce
<ochosi> if it's subtle it's certainly good
<knome> of course, but what can we do?
<ochosi> not much :)
<knome> it's just improvements for those with gtk3
<knome> it doesn't mean the gtk2 theme sucks
<ochosi> yeah i know, it's just limited
<ochosi> anyway, no reason to dream about xfce4.12 when 4.10 hasn't been released
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> (supposedly 5 days to go)
<knome> 4.10 ?:)
<ochosi> mhm
<knome> right'o
<ochosi> knome: btw, your firefox bug in oneiric: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03262012-013908pm.php
<knome> ochosi, y
<ochosi> just sayin, it has always been there
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> you could file a bug upstream though
<knome> i could
<knome> :)
<knome> i'll probably do that sometime i'm feeling productive again
<knome> now i'm having coffee + bun
<ochosi> seeya, hf
<knome> see you :)
<knome> i'm off as well, see you everybody
<pleia2> knome: thanks for publishing the article, and all the twitter activity!
<ochosi> seems like the current daily snapshot of xubuntu has a ubiquity bug, i can't seem to get across "removing conflicting operating system files" (even though there aren't any other OSs installed
<ochosi> hm, it worked on the third or fourth attempt
<pleia2> 09:43:27 < ThePendulum> pleia2: http://i.imgur.com/bZtjx.png
<pleia2> seen this?
<pleia2> (I asked him to submit a bug, but he can't log into lp)
<pleia2> in 12.04
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> 09:45:27 < Sysi> I think that's problem with your gtk theme
<pleia2> 09:45:51 < Sysi> what if you change it?
<pleia2> 09:46:29 < ThePendulum> Oh, indeed
<pleia2> 09:46:52 < ThePendulum> But the theme comes with Xubuntu 12.04 by default. You may want to remove or update it
 * pleia2 off to more wedding venue hunting
<scott-work> ochosi: do you know how the xubuntu logo is set for the graphical partitioning confirmation during installation?
<scott-work> astraljava has a very good screenshot of it but i'm going into a meeting now, i'll find it after i get out
<astraljava> ochosi: Scott is referring to this one: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/us_precise_dash-and-xubuntu-logo.png
<ochosi> astraljava: hm, i haven't come across that yet, seems i've chosen the wrong install-options up to now ;)
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether they use $icon-theme/places/*/distributor-logo.svg for that
<ochosi> pleia2: that is albatross, which doesn't have a gtk3 theme atm. maybe we should upload the work-in-progress theme of mine, it's better than nothing...
<ScottL> ochosi, OH, that explains our distributor logo then!  i've always wondered why that was there
<ScottL> maybe i have it in the wrong place then, i'll see where xubuntu has it and make sure we (studio) are putting it in the same place
<ochosi> we have it in multiple places and for p+1 i wanna check where it's superfluous
<ochosi> for the moment it might be easiest for you to replace all of them to be sure
<ochosi> in elementary-xfce there are a few of them
<ScottL> i just want it to work!  superfluous is okay with me :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> then in /usr/share/pixmaps
<ochosi> in elementary-xfce/panel/* and maybe in elementary-xfce-dark/panel/* as well
<ScottL> probably in usr/share/pixmaps is my guess
<ScottL> i wouldn't think ubiquity would know to look in elementary-xfce-*/panel/*
<ScottL> but then again you could be copying it into from elementary to usr/share/pixmaps :/
<ochosi> no, we're shipping it in /usr/share/pixmaps and elementary directly, no copying over afaik
<ScottL> okay, i'll check a few things, thansk ochosi !
<ochosi> ScottL: np
<knome> pleia2, i played a bit around with the website navigation/footer stuff.
<knome> pleia2, now the footer shouldn't have any internal navigation stuff except from the former "quick links", now called "get started"
<knome> pleia2, also, all pages with the sidebar now have a bit more appropriate sidebar for navigating :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-27
<ScottL> ochosi, i searched in the xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork packages (well, grep'd) and only found the distributor-logo.svg in the elementary theme directory
<ScottL> i'm guessing i'm going to have to figure out how to do some vodoo about replacing these (or renaming these) so the ubiquity partman.py will work
<pleia2> knome: looks good :)
<Unit193> knome: /usr/share/irssi/scripts/topic-diff.pl or I can upload it.
<knome> Unit193, hmmh, yeah, that's not optimal, but tbh, i don't know what i was expecting :D
<knome> Unit193, it probably works just like i want :)
<Unit193> Note, it's still a bit funky at times, but better than nothing.
<knome> yeah, thanks for the tip
 * knome didn't succeed well at sleeping
<knome> hit the bed 4 hours ago, but i've probably slept no more than 3 hours max
<knome> pleia2, oh damn, forgot to ask you... could you take care of changing the logo in g+?
<knome> anybody here with a wikipedia account?
<benonsoftware> knome: Yes?
<knome> benonsoftware, can you do us a favour and replace the xubuntu logos in wikipedia, i will provide you the files
<benonsoftware> Yeah
<knome> k, just a sec, i'll upload
<knome> the logos to be replaced are:
<knome> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Xubuntu_Logo.svg
<knome> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Xubuntu_Logo2.svg
<knome> the files to replace with are:
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_wikipedia/
<knome> benonsoftware, thanks!
<benonsoftware> knome: No problem
<benonsoftware> Hmm, do I upload a commletly new one, as I'm not sure how do edit the old ones
<knome> ummh, i can look at it
<knome> i mean - i have an account for a client, but don't want to use it to do this ;)
<knome> benonsoftware, below the file history, there's a link saying "upload a new version of this file"
<benonsoftware> knome: Ah, yes sorry
<benonsoftware> I'll do it right now
<knome> benonsoftware, for the "File changes" field in that page, you can use just "New official logo"
<benonsoftware> Okies
<knome> thanks!
<benonsoftware> No problem
<benonsoftware> knome: Done
<knome> benonsoftware, thanks!
<benonsoftware> No worries
<knome> hmmh, i wonder when the wikipedia pages are updated
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu
<knome> the logo is a "bit" stretched ;))
<knome> fixed that with committing an empty update to the page
<knome> but the problem will still exist in the other language versions
<knome> hmm. looks like that didn't even save a revision in the history \o/
 * knome goes "updating" all the pages
<Unit193> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xubuntu810.png That's a bit odd of a menu button.
<knome> mmh :)
<knome> k, all the language versions are update
<knome> s
<knome> d
<knome> :P
 * knome is off
<knome> see you all later
 * benonsoftware waves bye to knome 
<xumumu> hello
<ochosi> if there's anyone with a precise install up for a little testing please ping me
<mr_pouit> ScottL: micahg: I think the latest ubuntu-studio-default-settings upload is missing conffile handling (afaik your menu file is a conffile, so you're missing the maintscript stuff to move it)
<mr_pouit> (just from a quick look, I can be wrong ;-)
<ScottL> mr_pouit, hmmm, interesting
<ScottL> mr_pouit, i thought the menu under the /xdg-ubuntustudio directory gets copied to the computer and the system knows to use one of these directories when existing....
<ScottL> oh, i think i may see my issue, what if say you installed kde or lubuntu and they put _their_ menu out there too, then which menu gets used
<ScottL> there would be several /xdg-* directories and lots of menus
<ScottL> tonight i'll dig through how xubuntu does it and fix it
<mr_pouit> (I'm only speaking about the packaging: /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus/foo.menu was renamed to /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus/xfce-foo.menu, it's a conffile, and i couldn't find any maintscript in there, so the old file won't be deleted, and if the admin made changes to it, they won't be kept by the rename)
<mr_pouit> garcon will choose a menu file depending on XDG_MENU_PREFIX and other env vars
<ScottL> mr_pouit, it would seem that you are speaking of when someone "updates" or installs "ubuntustudio-default-settings" on an existing non-US system?
 * ScottL admits that he had not considered these use cases, just the initial install
<mr_pouit> I'm speaking about http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling#Moving_a_conffile
<ScottL> ah, yes, i remember seeing the maintainer script in the xubuntu packages, i will read this in more depth later today and hopefully implement it tonight
 * ScottL is getting himself and the kids ready for the day and is about to leave
<ScottL> i am about to walk out the door for the day but i wanted to say thank you mr_pouit for point this out, i really do appreciate the help :)
<ochosi> for everyone's reference, i just submitted a bugreport about abiword's broken ruler-colors upstream (after discussing with the devs in their irc chan about it): http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13301
<ubottu> bugzilla.abisource.com bug 13301 in Front End - GTK "AbiWord 2.9.2 Ruler widget looks bad in GTK3" [Normal,New]
<pleia2> knome: http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/logo-icon-large.png and -small are very similar, could we have a larger large?
<pleia2> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oJV4dNJAPw4/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAOc/nKLwauMl8is/s200-c-k/photo.jpg is the one we currently use for g+
<micahg> mr_pouit: scott-work: nice catch, thanks, I'll fix this a little later
<scott-work> micahg:  thank you very much, i'm sure you will do a much more effective and proficient job than i would :-)
<micahg> astraljava: can you test the onboard fix if I upload to my PPA?
<micahg> astraljava: sorry, thought you reported the bug
<micahg> anyone available to test the onboard fix?
<micahg> can someone please test bug 963216 for onboard with the package from ppa:micahg/ppa and let #ubuntu-release know if the onboard fix works?  you must *not* have mousetweaks installed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 958385 in onboard (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #963216 Encoding mismatch when mousetweaks is missing" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958385
 * micahg has to run
<astraljava> micahg: I can, when I get home, which is in about 3-4 hours from now.
<astraljava> knome: others: Are we interested in new images due to kernel and update-manager updates?
<ochosi> quick feedback about abiword: the rulers probably won't be fixed in abiword itself but in gtk3.4
<ochosi> the gtk3 version with gtk3.2 works just fine
<ochosi> so the abiword-devs don't want to waste time looking into that (and i have to say i kinda see their point)
<ochosi> at least not until gtk3.4 is out and in debian
<ochosi> so we'll have to live with what we got
<ochosi> bbl
<astraljava> knome: ochosi: mr_pouit: If no one wants to have images respinned, I'll mention this on -release soon-ish.
<micahg> mr_pouit: doesn't debhelper handle conf file changes automagically now?
<micahg> astraljava: you can check onboard with the archive version as it was accepted already
<astraljava> micahg: Sure thing.
<astraljava> Syncing the image now.
<micahg> mr_pouit: you're right, it's not reaped properly...will fix 
<ochosi> astraljava: what do you mean exactly by respinning the images?
<astraljava> ochosi: There were major updates to kernel and update-manager. -release wanted to know whether we're interested about them being added to Xubuntu Beta-2 images. But then the onboard fix calls for a respin anyway, and apparently there were other grave bugs that were fixed, and Kate rather adamantly persuaded for a respin after all. :)
<astraljava> ochosi: So, in a nut-shell, there'll be new ISOs in the tracker shortly.
<ochosi> oh, cool
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> i guess i'll be seeing/testing that in my real-install of precise soonish anyway
<astraljava> No worries. :) I'll test the onboard fix soon, installing from a synced image currently.
<ochosi> ah, k
<ochosi> what exactly wasn't working with onboard?
<ochosi> last time i tested it everything worked perfectly fine
<astraljava> ochosi: onboard (0.97.0-0ubuntu3) precise; urgency=low
<astraljava>   * Fix string encodings mismatch without mousetweaks; This fixes an issue
<astraljava>     where onboard fails to launch on Xubuntu which doesn't have mousetweaks
<astraljava>     installed by default (LP: #958385)
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> what are mousetweaks? :)
<astraljava> Don't ask me, I just work here.â¢
<ochosi> hehe
 * ochosi asks himself where the "tm" is on is keyboard
<astraljava> ctrl+u, 2122+<space>
<astraljava> Wait, shift+ctrl+u.
<ochosi> astraljava rocks.â¢
<ochosi> i admire you for knowing that by heart :)
<astraljava> ...to Ayreon.
<ochosi> you must be using this a lot
<astraljava> Sometimes. There are some cool unicodes that I sometimes throw in for spicing things up. I'm a weirdo, like that, too.
<Unit193> Yes, yes he is.
<ochosi> sounds good :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> btw, do any of you two have a precise testing-box?
<Unit193> Real? No. ;/
<Unit193> Vbox.....
<ochosi> that's fine too
<ochosi> i updated bluebird's gtk3 theme yesterday
<ochosi> and it'd be great if others could test it as well
<ochosi> otherwise i might be overlooking things
<Unit193> Sweetness! (I've not been able to get at that vbox, but that's on it for sure now)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> it's in github (github.com/shimmerproject/Bluebird)
<ochosi> would be great if you could give me some feedback
<astraljava> ochosi: I can test it tomorrow, I'll hit the hay immediately once I get the onboard fix verified.
<ochosi> i know it's far from perfect, i only had one afternoon to rebase it on greybird and port the most obvious portions of it
<ochosi> astraljava: sure, anytime is great!
<ochosi> k, off to bed
<ochosi> see y'all
<astraljava> micahg: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/onboard-precise.png
<micahg> astraljava: do you have mousetweaks installed?
<micahg> ah, you got it all there :)
<astraljava> micahg: Yep. :)
<micahg> astraljava: excellent, please notify -release that we're good for a respin at their leisure
<astraljava> micahg: I will. Thanks a bunch!
<micahg> astraljava: thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-28
<Unit193> ochosi: Bluebird from git doesn't make apport look good, but that could be a greybird thing.
<ochosi> Unit193: do you have a screenshot for me?
<ochosi> with greybird it looks like this for me: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03282012-113529am.php
<ochosi> hm, anyone on precise: could you please check whether the wine-icons are really missing? (i just installed wine here and in the startmenu there's nothing, so i might have to add that to elementary-xfce if confirmed)
<knome> pleia2, heh, the "large" doesn't have to do with the image size we are providing, but i could do that ;)
<knome> i just updated the beta2 notes
 * knome will soon enough do one test at least...
 * knome did the mandatory desktop amd64 tests
<pleia2> knome: oh, I see, whisker width changes?
<knome> pleia2, yup
<knome> pleia2, but yeah i suppose it would make sense to also privde a bigger png ;)
<knome> hmm
<knome> i stripped irc-related stuff out of the xubuntu-logs
<knome> and cleaned it up
<knome> then pasted it all in wordle
<knome> i have logs since january
<astraljava> What's a wordle?
<knome> http://wordle.net/
<astraljava> knome: So is it online somewhere? A link?
<knome> not yet
<knome> the browser crashed while i was on it
<astraljava> Which browser is that?
<knome> firefox
<astraljava> Firefox?
<astraljava> meh... *grin*
<astraljava> Although, I'm not very happy with chrome, either.
<knome> well, it's 11k rows... :)
<astraljava> Yeah.
<knome> the print button fails
<knome> and apparently, the "save to public gallery" crashes the browser
<knome> SOOOOOO
<knome> :P
<GridCube> im starting the alternate i386 tr
<knome> GridCube, thanks
<GridCube> s/tr/test/
<GridCube> any in particular need to be done?
<GridCube> encryption? full disk? autoresize?
<knome> GridCube, just anything. encryption could be good to test
<astraljava> GridCube: Every one of them need done. New images need all test cases to be run/ran(?).
<GridCube> ok ill nest encryption and autoresize
<astraljava> Thanks! I'll run some that are left later today.
<GridCube> i can't do amd64 ones :(
<knome> i think we're looking pretty good on getting stuff done, but i would have hoped some input from outside the team, considering we've blogged and tweeted very actively about this
<GridCube> about?
<knome> about testing
<knome> and about having to retest beta2
<knome> anyway,
<knome> pleia2, you there?
<knome> i made chanes to the xubuntu-website team on LP
<knome> tbe, made changes to how it's related to the xubuntu-team
<knome> xubuntu team is now not a part of the website team anymore, the website team is part of the xubuntu team
<astraljava> GridCube: I'll do amd64's, then, but only on qemu, as I'm away from my test machine for another 18 hours or so.
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> sorry
<astraljava> GridCube: Oh, not a problem by any means. :)
<astraljava> We do what we can. :) After all, we're not being paid for this. :)
<GridCube> :D
<knome> oooookay!
<knome> now anybody in the xubuntu-team are able to log in to xubuntu.org admin, but as contributors
<knome> hmm, i probably should change that to authors
<knome> hmm, no
<pleia2> knome: great
<knome> we should look into probably allowing the members of the xubuntu-team to edit pages too, as written in the latest post to -devel ML
 * pleia2 nods
<GridCube> knome, that means that, for example, i could upload blog articles?
<knome> pleia2, http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/logo-icon-large.png updated
<knome> GridCube, you can 'edit' them, meaning you can save drafts, but you will need approval/review from one of the administrators
<pleia2> knome: thanks :) updating G+ now
<GridCube> oh i see
<knome> GridCube, you can also delete your own posts... which is something i'd like to disallow >:)
<GridCube> :P
<knome> i mean, there's no reason why any 'contributor' should ever delete their blog article, especially if it's published
<knome> the problem with the 'contributor' role is though that they can't upload files
<knome> pleia2, ^
<knome> pleia2, nor edit published posts...
<GridCube> im against deleting any kind of information ever, but thats just the librarian in me
<knome> GridCube, well, me too. it can be hidden, if that's wanted, but yes, there's no reason to delete anything
<knome> GridCube, besides, it's only an administrator you need even if you needed to delete something
<GridCube> i think that in order to understand the history of something you need to know the good and the bad of it, if you delete something because you think its bad then you're deleting something that makes you be
<astraljava> Yeah, it's real fun when searching for something on google, for instance, seeing it in the hits, but not finding it when entering the site.
<knome> GridCube, i mean, like a blog article that never got written
<knome> GridCube, or, was deferred before publishing
<GridCube> oh yes, if it has no information
<GridCube> knome, when it says logo-icon-large i hoped it be like 256x256
<GridCube> the one there is rather small
<knome> again, the -large is not related to the size the file appears
<GridCube> not?
<GridCube> its high dpi?
<knome> GridCube, besides, it is 300x300
<knome> GridCube, no, it means that you should use this variation for *large sizes*
<knome> GridCube, the whiskers are smaller in this version
<knome> GridCube, if you look at the -small file, the whiskers are bolder
<knome> GridCube, but please refresh the image. it *is* 300x300 per my last update :)
<GridCube> the image is 300x300, the logo itself its not
<GridCube> oh, in fact the image is 104x104 here: http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/logo-icon-large.png
<GridCube> wich is in fact no different from the "small" 88x88
<GridCube> and i dont see how the whiskers being different counts as something relevant, but thats just me
<knome> GridCube, no, press F5
<knome> GridCube, the file is 300x300.
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> now it is
<GridCube> you did jedi magic
<knome> no
<knome> your file was from cache
<GridCube> :O WICHTCRAFT
<GridCube> in any case, i have a complain i should raise to the xfce devels
<GridCube> its that, when you have many open aplications that go beyond the panel area you cant see them on the panel anymore, and you dont get an [>] button to display the hidden ones
<pleia2> heading out again, have a full day, then a flight back to the proper side of the country, won't be around much again until tomorrow
<pleia2> good luck everyone :)
<GridCube> good luck to you pleia2 
<GridCube> :)
<astraljava> MAGIC TECHNOLOGY!
<GridCube> D: OH NOES
<GridCube> technomages are here!!
<GridCube> knome, an idea for the future, its it possible that during installation the installer checks if there's a windows network and tries to set it up?
<GridCube> onboard issues seem to be fixed :3
<knome> GridCube, if ubuntu does it, maybe
<GridCube> oh good point :)
<GridCube> the calculator icon for undo is still missing on todays image
<knome> ochosi, ^
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/963262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963262 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "calculator on xubuntu 12.04 beta2 is missing the undo icon" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<micahg> GridCube: not worth respinning at this point, but should be fixed for final and release noted if you think people will hit it
<GridCube> micahg, its just a visual bug, but its pretty obvious https://launchpadlibrarian.net/98032846/Captura%20de%20pantalla%20-%20230312%20-%2013%3A24%3A57.png
<GridCube> its not worth a respin by no reasons tho
<knome> yup, but definitely should be fixed
<GridCube> indeed
<knome> afaik ochosi is on it, and mr_pouit is going to upload it after beta2
<GridCube> knome, have you read this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/831488/comments/9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831488 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Xubuntu should not call gnome-control-center" [High,Invalid]
<knome> nope
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: your take on #831488 ? ideas?
<micahg> gnome-bluetooth needs gnome-control-center which is why we went with blueman
<micahg> also, that person is using the old version of blueman
<knome> micahg, could you probably quickly reply to him on the bug?
<knome> GridCube, ?
<GridCube> yes
<knome> GridCube, may i ask what's the motivation in joining the artwork team in LP?
<GridCube> ah... i don't know
<knome> GridCube, is it that you are *interested in the artwork discussions* or that you are *willing to contribute to artwork*
<GridCube> i don't remember when i asked to join that team
<knome> GridCube, the other teams except than xubuntu-team exist for technical reasons
<knome> okay, i'll decline you then ;)
<GridCube> ;)
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> i will be *interested in the artwork discussions* here as usual, and bother you people out :P
<knome> heh
<knome> sure
<knome> np
<knome> though if that is the case generally, there's no need to be approved to the team, everybody is allowed to bother/discuss ;)
<knome> GridCube, besides.. you should be a member of the team anyway via -team
<knome> this all is kind of awkward
<micahg> knome: that person isn't subscribed to the bug even
<knome> in that case, bleh :)
<GridCube> he might not know how to, he might check the bug by himself later
<knome> i'm off for now
<knome> zmisc, re: discussion in #xubuntu, following what others are working on and getting to know the process is a good way to start
<knome> zmisc, this channel especially
<zmisc> true, I thought it might be a good idea to e contribute from Xubuntu seeing my contributions would probably be valued much more. Seeing there is less resources put into this derivative.  Plus I've been an XFCE fanatic since the early 4.0 betas and release candidates.
<zmisc> "contribute to Xubuntu"
<knome> yeah, welcome on board :)
<zmisc> Do most of you guys use the daily testing ISOs within a virtual machine? Or dedicate a physical computer for testing purposes?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers
<zmisc> Considering if I make valuable contributions and begin to help this project, I may be interested in finding a mentor and possibly becoming a true Xubuntu developer.
<knome> you probably want to help out mr_pouit and micahg in the beginning
<zmisc> With what exactly?
<knome> and, eventually, it makes sense to apply for a MOTU
<knome> !motu
<knome> ubottu, ??
<knome> zmisc, they can tell you better :)
<knome> zmisc, actually, astraljava can help too
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<zmisc> thanks knome you've been an awesome help :D
<knome> no problem
<astraljava> knome: That's quite bold. :)
 * knome is currently the project leader
<knome> so i suppose i need to be helpful... :)
<knome> astraljava, well, at least you are into the bugs at least somewhat.
<astraljava> True, I try.
<zmisc> knome: Xubuntu project leader?
 * astraljava is also off to running the ISO tests now...
<knome> zmisc, yup
<knome> astraljava, fortunately, there isn't too many tests to be done
<knome> only two mandatory and two run-once \o/
<knome> err, three run-once
<zmisc> Nice, I will make sure to add these channels to my autojoin list... 
<astraljava> knome: Oh?! Great news, I was worried a bit.
<knome> zmisc, great! :)
 * zmisc can't wait to get off to working on Xubuntu
<knome> zmisc, right now, if you want to help, do a test :)
<zmisc> sure, of a daily ISO?
<knome> yup
<knome> this should get you started: http://xubuntu.org/news/help-test-xubuntu/
<astraljava> zmisc: Good time to join, too. There's a new real development cycle coming up now that an LTS release is going to be finished.
 * zmisc begins to download the test iso
<knome> astraljava, exactly, though, we need to concentrate getting other stuff fixed too >:)
<knome> but generally, people will have more time for mentoring and more relaxed chatter
<knome> well, not for another month now, but, anyway ;)
<zmisc> yeah, I've used F/OSS for years and years, and finally I believe I am in a position to help. I am not a professional (just a enthusiast) but my skills have reached the point to where I feel they are valuable.
<zmisc> I've learned, python, perl, and various scripting languages lately (I've been decent with system administration, and building and packaging though)
<zmisc> my coding skills were lacking big time
<knome> i think it's a general misunderstanding that you can't help if you don't have "skills"
<knome> i mean, anybody can test a daily iso
<knome> anybody can triage a bug
<knome> and that's not to say i don't value testing/triaging
<knome> or those who do it
<zmisc> I understand that QA is important, but I wanted to contribute in the creation of the distribution
<knome> yeah i see
<Unit193> zmisc: And I'm the crazy loon.
<knome> but that leads to no new contributors joining the project ever
<knome> because they want to start by changing the world ;)
<zmisc> and testing, really anywhere I could be used
<knome> (no offense meant, but that's how it is)
<knome> Unit193, yeah. fortunately we're in the other side of the hedge
<zmisc> knome: I understand, I am saying I want to be to the point to where I am able to help in multiple ways
<knome> ;)
<knome> zmisc, sure, but there are multiple ways to help with next to no skill set or understanding development stuff
<zmisc> I agree
<knome> zmisc, for starters: testing, bug triage and documentation
<zmisc> knome: definately I planned on beginning with testing, and writing documentation (helping users, etc)
<knome> then there's translations too, if you can do a less spoken language
<knome> great!
<knome> we're looking to update our docs next cycle
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo all
<zmisc> if I can fix the bugs themselves I won't hesitate to send a patch if possible
<knome> the old one is originally written about 3 years ago, it seems :X
<bodhi_zazen> If you need help with testing of xubuntu+1 ...
<zmisc> hehe
<bodhi_zazen> Post in the ubuntu +1 forums
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=412
<knome> bodhi_zazen, we only have a few tests to do, but if you have time to do a test... :)
<bodhi_zazen> contact me, or any of the UF staff, and we will sticky it
<zmisc> I've recently switched from Debian using XFCE to Xubuntu
<knome> bodhi_zazen, ah! right
<bodhi_zazen> what you needing tested knome ?
<knome> bodhi_zazen, well, we're not in panic right now :)
<knome> bodhi_zazen, wubi :/
<bodhi_zazen> Well, you will get support if you post in ubuntu +1
<zmisc> knome: Right now it seems to be the most solid and integrated experience as far as the rest of the *buntus go
<knome> bodhi_zazen, but seriously, i don't know when that is tested the last time whatsoever
<bodhi_zazen> we have an active community there willing to help you
<bodhi_zazen> Can't help with wubi
<bodhi_zazen> I do not run windows
<knome> bodhi_zazen, let's put it this way: generally, we will need help in testing, but specifically for beta2, we're looking good :)
<knome> yeah, i don't think any of us do
<bodhi_zazen> Post a thread like this : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1946388
<knome> bodhi_zazen, thanks :)
<bodhi_zazen> If it does not get sufficient attention, ask for assistance from the forums staff
<knome> bodhi_zazen, i will keep this in mind the next time we are in the need, or, when Q testing starts :)
<bodhi_zazen> can find them easily on #ubuntuforums
<knome> yup, thanks a lot!
<knome> we've been tweeting a lot about it
<knome> and getting retweets
<knome> but not so many tests ;)
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, we noticed, but I don't think the forums staff contacted you
<knome> bodhi_zazen, no, they didn't
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=89054
<bodhi_zazen> We have several staff who use xubuntu, all happy to help the cause
 * knome is quite unfamiliar with the forums, i can't even remember if i have an account... :)
<knome> pleia2,  ^^ when you get back... please read the scrollback
<bodhi_zazen> Part of what I have been trying to do is to reach out to some of the various teams & communities 
<Unit193> knome: Hobgoblin (forum staff) runs Pangolin as his main.
<knome> yeah, i think cooperation between the teams is always good
<bodhi_zazen> do you mind if I communicate our discussion back to the staff ?
<knome> not at all
<knome> it's a logged channel after all :)
<knome> Unit193, hmm? :)
<knome> Unit193, relevancy?
<Unit193> s/main/main OS/  for testing info or see if something is broken.
<knome> heh
<knome> sure
<knome> my wife runs precise too
<knome> O:)
<knome> bodhi_zazen, btw, you might want to say hi to the ubuntu studio devs too
<knome> though, astraljava most probably have it all referenced already :P
<bodhi_zazen> FWIW , the ubuntu +1 testing community has thrived on the forums last 1-2 release cycles, so have someone from xubuntu post there from time to time , you will get support and testers
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo ubuntu studio dev =)
<knome> yeah, we will have to look at that
<knome> we are currently somewhat reorganizing everything :)
<bodhi_zazen> happens
<knome> yeah, but we are with positive minds!
 * knome has learnt a lot of new things in the past 6 months
<bodhi_zazen> Who is leading xubuntu now ?
 * knome is
<GridCube> ^^ 
<knome> trying to set the pace for community, strategy document and documenation overhaul in Q :)
<knome> *documentation
<bodhi_zazen> OK, well, if you have time, post an update in ubuntu +1 for your needs for the upcoming release, you might be surprised with the support available
<knome> yeah, i will do that
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, we are trying to contribute to the wiki9s)
<knome> (actually i will probably delegate and get that done, but...) :)
<bodhi_zazen> wiki needs a little love
 * knome just strated cleaning up the xubuntu wiki too
<knome> need to move some of the content to our website
<micahg> knome: zmisc: MOTU is not required for xubuntu development
<knome> micahg, i know, but that's not a bad thing at all
<micahg> the DMB can grant upload rights for the xubuntu packageset separately
 * knome ponders if that has always been the case
<knome> but that sounds good
<micahg> knome: well, since packagesets were introduced ~3 or 4 years ago
<knome> aha
<knome> bodhi_zazen, ^ as i just said, i've been learning a lot during the last 6 months
 * micahg was already a MOTU when he became a xubuntu-dev
<knome> micahg, climbing bottom first to the tree? ;)
<zmisc> What are these drastic changes to Xubuntu that are being proposed?
<micahg> knome: I went from mozilla packageset, then +MOTU, then +core-dev
<knome> micahg, if you can mentor zmisc with mr_pouit as much as your schedule allows... it would be awesome :)
<micahg> knome: unfortunately, not a lot of time right now, very behind on some projects
<knome> micahg, well i know.. but maybe in the Q cycle :)
<micahg> yeah, should have a little more time then :)
<zmisc> I am willing to wait, talking here and getting to know the process will beneficial as well I believe
<knome> zmisc, yeah. while hanging out in this channel you will absorb all kind of information you never knew existed ;)
<knome> zmisc, re: changes, are you referring to precise?
<bodhi_zazen> knome: I added this channel to my autojoin
<knome> bodhi_zazen, great! :)
<bodhi_zazen> I've been known to make custom iso so can help with some stuff if you need
<bodhi_zazen> http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux/ubuntu-gma500-live-cd/
<bodhi_zazen> http://zenix-os.net/screenshots.html
<zmisc> knome: yeah, the changes you are proposing are they are concerned with development infrastructure or end product?
<bodhi_zazen> If you need help, the more lead time you can give me the better ;p
<knome> bodhi_zazen, mm-hmm!
<knome> zmisc, for Q, mostly infrastructure
<knome> zmisc, trying to make the strategy document more on-earth than idealistic
<knome> (that's 4 years old too)
<zmisc> ah, what is the strategy?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<knome> good luck in reading and absorbing that... :)
<zmisc> absorbtion isn't the only plan
<bodhi_zazen> knome: tl;Dr.
<bodhi_zazen> knome: tl;dr 
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<knome> uh oh :D
<knome> zmisc, bored to death is also not a very good option
<zmisc> heh, I will take a look at the strategy though... any initial plans on making is more realistic?
<knome> zmisc, i have a rough rewrite done on my HDD
<bodhi_zazen> zmisc: Delete it all, start fresh =)
<zmisc> probably the best option
<knome> zmisc, generally, update the target to be a bit less towards "old" machines
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<knome> zmisc, then, do some updates on the governancy stuff, trying to make it more motivational to contribute
<zmisc> Though making the selling point as a distribution that simply for old machines is a bad idea
<zmisc> knome: you beat me to it
<bodhi_zazen> target - beautiful XFCE ubuntu desktop
<zmisc> knome: kinda gives the perception of Xubuntu as a "last resort" distro
<knome> zmisc, and ultimately, just cut down the amount of content
<zmisc> nice
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/
<bodhi_zazen> Content should be readable in 10 seconds, use links for "additional information" 
<zmisc> I've been advocating xubuntu lately, and have had quite a few switch completely
<knome> our website already has something for the new "mission"
<knome> elegant, modern, efficient, easy-to-use
<bodhi_zazen> Pictures speak 1,000 words, add some sweet screenshots
<knome> bodhi_zazen, heh, probably not something for a strategy document
<knome> but i agree it should be as compact as possible
<bodhi_zazen> =)
 * knome has cut down about 15 KB from the plaintext file (original =~ 42 KB)
<ochosi> knome: re:calculator-icon-bug: yes, it has been fixed in git quite a while ago already. pretty much 30mins after it was brought to my attention by GridCube (also see the bugreport for reference). afaik mr_pouit said it'll take a bit for him to upload those changes, so it should be ok
<bodhi_zazen> wow
<bodhi_zazen> when they get that long -> break it into sub pages
<knome> ochosi, good :)
<zmisc> Is the plan to be a "refugee from GNOME3/KDE4" distribution
<knome> zmisc, no, not really
<knome> zmisc, but since the xfce desktop is a conservative one, it's most probably realistic that we will attract those people as well
<zmisc> I do predict that happening possibly though, but a lot of people are realizing the power and simplicity of XFCE
<knome> ochosi, so you're back? :)
<ochosi> knome: no, just thought i'd quickly check my backlog before going to sleep so it doesn't grow too long :)
<bodhi_zazen> Emphasize the advantages of xfce, not old hardware or weaknesses, perceived or real, of other DE
<knome> bodhi_zazen, yup, definitely
<bodhi_zazen> "the power and simplicity of XFCE" sounds so very much better then "old hardware" or "refugee from GNOME3/KDE4"
<knome> ;)
<zmisc> bodhi_zazen: let XFCE stand on its own basically
<zmisc> on its own merits, along with the merits of collaboration between Ubuntu and Debian
<knome> well, we won't use all of the xfce components eitehr
<knome> *either
<zmisc> true
<knome> so it's not a "pure xfce distro"
<zmisc> no, but xfce is the centerpiece IMO
<bodhi_zazen> Emphasize the strong points and features of Xubuntu - Ubuntu base , ubuntu community, xfce, what ?
<knome> bodhi_zazen, you will see ;)
 * knome still needs to read his own rewrite first to see if that makes any sense at all
<bodhi_zazen> I do not know, but are there a lot of debian users using xubuntu ? A few I imagine .. , but is it really a selling point ?
<knome> i don't think it's a competition
<knome> why should we "sell" ?
<zmisc> Xubuntu (full featured, powerful, simple, easy to use) Extra Value: Support due to collaboration between Debian/Ubuntu etc.
<zmisc> its not a competition
<bodhi_zazen> There you go zmisc ^^
<bodhi_zazen> much better then b4
<knome> i think the best thing is to believe in what you do - and go ahead with that - the users will get your way
<zmisc> but the face that it is based on debian/ubuntu means that there is a large community of users to draw resources from, and vice versa
<bodhi_zazen> knome: spoken like a gnome dev
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<zmisc> So when you use Xubuntu, you're not out in the cold ?
<knome> bodhi_zazen, well, maybe. i don't believe in what they do though, that's why i'm not 'doing' with them
<zmisc> Don't you think a community distribution should be representative of the community?
<knome> zmisc, well, at least you get something that is done with passion...
<knome> yes, the community that is creating it
<knome> and since everybody is free to join...
<zmisc> what about users?
<bodhi_zazen> zmisc: you and knome get to decide, I am only encouraging you
<zmisc> the users may or may not be contributors, or of any value to the development process
<knome> if an OS should look like its users, how can any OS ever change?
<zmisc> I mean, like "feature requests" etc.
<knome> because users won't change
<knome> users probably don't know what is the "best for them"
<zmisc> users wishes in what software does do
<zmisc> I mean somewhat like a middle ground approach
<knome> feature requests are of course reviewed and discussed
<knome> but ultimately, if there isn't anybody willing to step up and implement, it doesn't get done
<zmisc> you deliver the wishes of the users in some way, but do it on your own terms i.e. methodology, etc.
<knome> that's why a FOSS OS won't never look like the *users*, but the *contributors*
<zmisc> somewhat on them lines>
<zmisc> true
<zmisc> you make a valid point
<bodhi_zazen> Nothing is quite as effective as including a patch with your bug report ;)
<knome> yeah
<zmisc> I agree with that middle ground approach
<knome> as the xfce devs *love* to say, patches are welcome
<zmisc> knome: and I can see your emphasis in having more users involved in QA
<zmisc> that is contribution in some form at least
<knome> zmisc, yup
<knome> even if xubuntu had only one "true" developer (which has been the case previously),
<knome> he can't do it without the guys doing QA
<knome> but with them, he can
<zmisc> true
<zmisc> I plan on putting a machine aside for running Xubuntu development snapshots, and working on documentation, bug reports, etc.
<zmisc> offer support on IRC etc.
<knome> i have an idea to update the docs
<knome> on *how* to update the docs
<knome> do you know etherpad?
<ochosi> ok guys, until tuesday i'll only be around on friday
<ochosi> i'll be on holidays over the weekend and not in the country, so if you have questions either ask me on friday or on tuesday
<ochosi> or ping me and i'll read it in the backlog
<knome> uhoh
<knome> happy holidays :)
<bodhi_zazen> have fun ochosi 
<zmisc> etherpad?
<ochosi> thanks! see y'all
<zmisc> Have a good one :D
<knome> zmisc, http://beta.etherpad.org/p/lgba9hLj7d
<knome> zmisc, did you fall asleep?
<knome> :)
<zmisc> no I just had to step out for a bit
<knome> hehe
<knome> open that link
<zmisc> I am :D
<knome> hmm, i wonder why i can't see you
<knome> js disabled?
<knome> or you are *opening* the link? ;)
<zmisc> I am on an unreliable 3G connection right now.
<knome> awwh
<zmisc> sorry 
<knome> seems to be really unreliable
<zmisc> yes it is, I am on the edge of coverage right now
<knome> heh
<knome> anyway, it's collaborative live editing
<knome> meaning, you can paste in text (documentation)
<knome> and edit simultaneously
<knome> any edits by me would appear in one color, and yours in another
<knome> there's no limits on how much people can join in
<knome> i'd imagine a chapter of documentation takes about 10-20 minutes to update with 3-5 people
<zmisc> that would be excellent
<zmisc> I've done a bit of collaborative writing, but most of my writing I've done has been for research at university
<knome> xubuntu documentation having 17 chapters, i'd imagine it would be something about 12 hours of productive time to complete the complete documentation
<knome> first do a few "tests" on the first chapters to check if that acutally works out
<knome> then arrange an online sprint, with loads of publicity
<knome> people can even edit several chapters at a time
<knome> with one sprint, i suppose it's possible to get about 1/6 of the docs done
<knome> it's hard to estimate the actual time, since some of the parts are really short and easy
<knome> others might be a bit more complicated, and long
<zmisc> depending on the complexity of the issue being documented
<zmisc> and depending on who is present in drafting the documents
<knome> yeah, but we have the old documentation
<knome> which pretty much has a good structure
<knome> and most of the things are still true
<knome> and of course, i'd expect the sprint to attract xubuntu users, who should know their system
<knome> if not all aspects, at least some
<knome> and learning isn't bad
<zmisc> I believe people should be a little bit more informed in the inner workings of their OS
<knome> yup
<zmisc> it would eliminate many of the issues present in IT
<knome> true
<knome> but seriously...
<knome> people being interested in IT and other things more deeply generally would fix most of the issues in life :)
<zmisc> like you mean the IT or the general concept of people truly understanding the things present in their life?
<knome> both
<astraljava> Awww... have I missed a genuine philosophical conversation here?
<astraljava> knome: Why didn't you ping me?!
<knome> hah
<knome> i thought it was better not to let you know.
<astraljava> *grumble*
<astraljava> Just as I'm deep into these existential crisi-related thoughts anyway, you didn't give me an outlet or a refining process. :)
<astraljava> crisis*
<knome> humph :
<knome> :P
<leo-unglaub> in the current 12.04 is an icon missing for clipman
<knome> micahg, i know you were part of the xubuntu-team via other teams, but i just added you to the team directly, to track contributors.
<knome> i'm off. see you all later
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-29
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: thanks for dropping by, we added twitter, G+ and a more active blog this cycle, but my brain managed to completely forget to ask for contributors on the forums (in spite of all the work we've done together this cycle!)
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: we saw the tweets, ubuntu +1 will help
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I should think through some kind of "tell all these resources about our stuff" document so I don't lose track
<pleia2> blog, twitter, G+, xubuntu-devel, forums +1..
<GridCube> pleia2, we could like make a checklist :P
<pleia2> GridCube: yeah
<pleia2> I did that for the loco teams I was part of, muy helpful
<GridCube> lol muy
<pleia2> :)
<knome> pleia2, what do you think of getting https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website deleted and https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website-wordpress renamed to that
<knome> pleia2, currently, we are getting all the bugs reported against the old product
<knome> pleia2, the old product has pretty much nothing important, and if we for some reason want to save the code, we can just register a new series in the new website product and push it there
<knome> pleia2, also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/XubuntuOld
<leo-unglaub> hi
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: in the current 12.04 is the icon for the clipman tool mission
<leo-unglaub> just so you know
<pleia2> knome: maybe start out by putting a note on xubuntu-website saying it's the wrong one? I fear I've been using xubuntu-website too, and should be telling people to use xubuntu-website-wordpress
<astraljava> Hmm... anyone else experiencing increasing CPU hogging of Xorg when operating a laptop on battery power?
<astraljava> ...and it seems all other processes are bogged down simultaneously.
<astraljava> Wonder if there's something weird with the power management.
<meerkats> will there be a xubuntu 12.04 64 bits in a motnh time? If I choose xubuntu, will I still be able to use libreoffice?
<astraljava> meerkats: Yes of course. Please use #[x]ubuntu+1 for support questions on devel releases.
<meerkats> i was looking for that channel astraljava 
<meerkats> astraljava, its empty
<meerkats> z/join #[x]ubuntu+1
<astraljava> meerkats: Either #ubuntu+1, or #xubuntu+1, sorry for being brief (and overly technical).
<meerkats> no worries
 * astraljava is a tad busy at the moment...
<astraljava> What with the beta-2 release verifications and all.
<meerkats> z/join #xubuntu+1 empty too
<astraljava> Hmmm... I thought we had that channel. Well, then there's #ubuntu+1 for sure.
<knome> pleia2, well, it's not a problem to move the bugs (it's not a huge load we get), but i was thinking if we actually need xubuntu-website at all.
<meerkats> dont you need it for noobds like me?
<meerkats> Ill have to download the .iso from there
<meerkats> i guess
<knome> #xubuntu+1 would not have that much traffic so no reason to have one
<knome> pleia2, when you are back online, could you ping me?
<meerkats> hehe, yes
<meerkats> but thats a channel, not a website
<knome> yes
<pleia2> knome: am back, but first day back to work after a week of being out, I'll be slow to respond
<knome> pleia2, mmh. will you have any faster-response time? :)
<astraljava> argh... times like these, I really, really, absolutely detest and loath computers.
<knome> pleia2, first of all, could you go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/XubuntuOld ?
<knome> pleia2, those are pages that i didn't want to delete right away
<knome> pleia2, there isn't anything important, but i want to make sure you don't think there is something to save for archival purposes
<knome> pleia2, i've also updated http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<knome> pleia2, as well as the marketing subpage there
<pleia2> aw, no more pretty pictures on contribute page!
<knome> hah
<pleia2> thanks, I'll have a closer look this evening
<knome> mrrh :)
<knome> well, i'm planning to eventually add some pictures back to the contribute page
<pleia2> :)
<knome> but as less obtrusive versions
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I want a testing logo, with a mouse doing tests
<knome> hah
<knome> will you draw one? :P
<pleia2> lol
 * knome will fix the headers so we can use <h1> in blog posts
<astraljava> Yay!
<TheMouldyMarsBar> Hi
<knome> hello
<pleia2> knome: our release post draft lists the updates twice, shall we chop off the ones at the end of the post?
<knome> pleia2, yes, if that's what it does. must be some kind of pasting error or sth
<nonau> Has beta 2 officially been released?  I'm looking forward to taking it for a spin later.
<pleia2> not yet
<nonau> Irregardless, congrats to the developers for their hard work.
<knome> nonau, thanks
<knome> pleia2, will you have any block of time today to really get into the wiki/website stuff?
<knome> pleia2, if yes, would that possibly be in the next few hours?
<pleia2> knome: not until tonight my time :( I have work for another 3 hours, then a dr appt
<knome> pleia2, awwh :(
<baizon> will install beta 2 tomorrow :)
 * astraljava is still behind on some mandatory test cases, life is a tricky thing, it happens...
<knome> pleia2, beta2 announcement up
<pleia2> :D
 * pleia2 working on fridge post for regular ubuntu
<pleia2> just in time for my lunch break, thanks skaet :D
<knome> pleia2, psst, she's lurking in this channel too ;)
<skaet> :)
<pleia2> good timing
<knome> well, i was working on the website, so yeah...
<astraljava> Well, didn't quite make them all in time, but I assume overall the beta-2 images received enough testing, even if the last round didn't have them all done.
<knome> well, skaet didn't even poke us this time, like with beta1 :))
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<skaet> :)
<pleia2> knome: want me to do twitter?
<knome> pleia2, ah, i forgot that. please go ahead if you have some free time :)
<pleia2> k
<pleia2> (doing g+ now, so might as well :))
<knome> great
<pleia2> oh, I need to update our planet mouse
<knome> heh
<knome> true
<pleia2> which to use for http://planet.ubuntu.com/heads/xubuntu.png
<pleia2> small?
<knome> what's the size it appears?
<pleia2> 100x100, so the larger one
<knome> right, yeah, small
<pleia2> oh small
<knome> no
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> :)
<knome> http://planet.ubuntu.com/
<pleia2> ah, it shrinks it
<knome> it doesn't appear as big as the uploaded file
<knome> yup
<pleia2> 56x56
<astraljava> Thanks to everyone who helped testing the beta-2 images!
<knome> pleia2, yup, small. whenever the picmark part is 64px or less, it's small
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> pleia2, that means about 80px if you are using the whole logo
<knome> (in height)
<knome> np
<knome> that's documented in the marketing resources -page too :)
<pleia2> yeah I just forgot
<knome> hihi
<knome> pleia2, ?
<pleia2> hm?
<knome> pleia2, do you know the exact details why the xubuntu-testers LP team is moderated?
<pleia2> knome: not a clue
<knome> i understand that people are required to add their testing machines in the wiki
<pleia2> that may be the only reason
<knome> but looking at the wiki page and comparing it to the testers team... that doesn't really match
<pleia2> yeah :\
<pleia2> planet has our new logo now
<knome> thanks
<knome> hahah
<knome> hmm
<knome> LP says:
<knome> please add yourself in the wiki, then apply
<knome> wiki says:
<knome> please join the team, then add yourself in the wiki
<knome> confusing??
<pleia2> nice
<knome> should the team be more inclusive, or exclusive?
<knome> i mean, the options are:
<knome> ADD THE DAMN INFORMATION (and you will get approved)
<knome> or
<knome> we don't actually care if you add the information, just join
<knome> uh oh! http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ reviewed and almost completely rewritten
<ochosi> gah
<astraljava> knome: I'll be reading it through with thought later, my brain is fried for a couple of tens of hours right now. :)
<knome> astraljava, heh:)
<Pandarific> beta 2 manual install so far so good
<knome> fried with alcohol?
 * knome shakes head
<astraljava> No, just had a glass of wine at Jussi's last night.
<astraljava> These other new... personal life things.
<knome> damn, that must've been poisonous at least
<astraljava> Oh, it was rather good, in fact. Santa Helena, from Chile.
<knome> still, i don't know anything about wine
<astraljava> Well then all I can say is it's certainly much less poisonous than your Ron Zacapa. :)
 * knome doubts that
<knome> ron zacapa is what is keeping as fit as i am!!!
<knome> +me
 * astraljava rolls eyes, and swallows the few select words about to fall off from his mouth...
<knome> forget the few typos caused by it, otherwise i'm healthy as a young gazelle!
<astraljava> You know, I'm pretty sure there are handicapped young gazelles out there. Not for long, but still, at any given time.
<knome> hehe
<knome> are you calling me handicapped now??
<astraljava> I don't know what gave you that idea.
<astraljava> *blink* *blink*
<knome> i might be not the most fit gazelle in the fields, but i'm not handicapped either.
<knome> i'm rum capped.
 * astraljava reaches over to cap knome's rum bottle
<knome> it IS capped
<knome> do you think i'd leave it uncapped? it'd attract all kind of flying buzzers and eventually, lose all the alc. vol % !!
<astraljava> Whee! A Bruins game is about to start.
<knome> haha
<astraljava> Flying buzzers like astraljavas and the like?
<knome> conga-rats
<knome> mm, probably.
<knome> especially those you find sleeping on the couch in the morning
<astraljava> It only happened once (so far)!
<knome> heh
 * knome is happy he kept the rum bottle capped, though
<astraljava> Yeah, it's just sane practice.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-30
<ochosi> astraljava: i hear you're a brilliant coder..?
<astraljava> ochosi: Either check your ears, or never trust that little bird again, ever.
<ochosi> lol
<astraljava> But, since you brought it up, shoot.
<knome> astraljava, AGAIN, are you insulting me to be LITTLE?
<ochosi> there is this really old idea in my head, it's nothing really new or stunning, but it's something that is lacking in the xfce-panel: a simple plugin that combines launchers and open-windows (some dub it a dock)
<ochosi> no fancy animation shit, just the functionality
<knome> !language | ochosi 
<ubottu> ochosi: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<knome> ;)
<knome> i mean, that was such UNPROFESSIONAL talk...
<ochosi> knome: so you don't like the word "animation"?
<ochosi> (or "fancy"?)
<knome> oh wait, i misread. the word "astraljava" was in MY comments
<knome> sorry.
<ochosi> apology accepted
<astraljava> knome: Well I dunno. Do you wanna be a gazelle or a bird?
<knome> what if i was a trout?
<astraljava> ochosi: Sure, we can talk. I'm interested.
<ochosi> astraljava: i guess this should also be coordinated with upstream, but i think nick is open for something like that
<ochosi> at least when i talked with him about it @fosdem he said that this should go into a separate plugin
<ochosi> thing is that i dunno how difficult it is
<Unit193> ochosi: Like Win7 has?
<astraljava> ochosi: I wouldn't mind, I'm a very upstream-friendly contributor. :D
<ochosi> i mean you have to keep a list of the launchers in the dock or something and other than that it's like the window-list
<ochosi> Unit193: never used that for real, but yeah, i guess. like win7 and osx and unity...
<astraljava> ochosi: Thing is, I'm really busy for a while now, but during the Q cycle, I would be up for it.
<ochosi> astraljava: i mean i would guess that you wouldn't need a lot of mockups for that, maybe apart from finding a way to distinguish the launchers, the open/focussed windows and the not-running or not-focussed apps
<ochosi> yeah, it should be for Q
 * knome would kick all the three legs of ochosi if he proposed that for precise
<ochosi> so the time-horizon is a bit more open
<knome> mind you, ochosi is a handicapped, old gazelle with one lost leg
<ochosi> and also it'd be good to base it on the 4.10 panel
<astraljava> ochosi: Sounds good, then.
<ochosi> !language | knome
<ubottu> knome: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<knome> ochosi, you thought 'ochosi' was unprofessional? :(
<ochosi> astraljava: yeah, the 4.10 panel will be in Q for sure, so i think that's good timing
<ochosi> knome: no, not unprofessional, just not very family-friendly
<knome> ahh damn, you might need to change your nick than too
<knome> *then
<ochosi> no, just never ping me again, problem solved
<astraljava> Yea. In fact, never talk to me, again. Done!
<knome> hahah... :)
<ochosi> :)
<knome> great!
<knome> looks like the problems in the community are solved now
<ochosi> finally i can stop reading chan-logs
<ochosi> what problems in the community?
<astraljava> Yep. Abandon ship! ABANDON SHIP!
<knome> huh, i'm so relieved
<knome> ochosi, are you still talking to me?
<Unit193> knome: Only ones are you and your use of language. :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> Unit193: +1
<astraljava> Is that Unit194, then?
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> nice one
<knome> hahah
<knome> Unit193, i command you to change your nick *immediately* to Unit194
<Unit193> Nope, that's locked out.
<knome> you can appeal for the IRC council later, now change the nick
<knome> ;)
<knome> what's the history behind the nick btw?
<knome> you live in a unit number 193?
<knome> and you refer to your irc nick when you are going home drunk?
<Unit194> Nope, it's never been said on IRC.
<knome> now that you have the new nick, you can reveal the secret to the old one
<ochosi> hihi
<Unit194> Howdy, ochosi 
<knome> Unit194, hmm, you new here? haven't seen your nick before
<ochosi> :)
<Unit194> Woah, chanact color changed. >_>
<knome> MAGIC TECHNOLOGY
<ochosi> knome: what do you think of including a web-irc-client on our website? is that even feasible? and if yes, is it a good idea?
<knome> ochosi, hmm. what about a link like in the slideshow?
<knome> ochosi, that would use freenode's own services
<ochosi> knome: i've never clicked that link...
<knome> ochosi, hah
<knome> wait
<ochosi> yeah, something like that, but a xubuntu-header would be nice
<ochosi> (to the worst an iframe)
<knome> hmm, right...
<ochosi> as in: keeping people on our site
<knome> iframe could work...
<astraljava> knome: I know the story behind it. How much will you pay for the information?
<ochosi> like in this quick mockup by someone else (which actually gave me the idea): http://imagebin.org/205898
<knome> astraljava, one serving of rum?
<knome> :P
<astraljava> meh
<knome> hehe
<knome> ochosi, hmmph..
<knome> well
<knome> i'm not willing to host a webirc
<knome> i mean, maintain one
<ochosi> what does the freenode-thing look like
<knome> and i don't think IS rejoices...
<ochosi> no, sure, that'd be overkill
<ochosi> :)
<knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> let's use that then
<ochosi> adding a link like in the slide-show could be the first step
<ochosi> i still think integration would be nice
<ochosi> even if only via iframe
<knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&nick=xubuntu...&prompt=1
<knome> that's the link in the slideshow
<knome> note the default filled options
<knome> Unit193, long time no see, eh?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that looks good to me
<ochosi> knome: provide a way back to our website (apart from the back-button) and we're good
<Unit193> knome: You get to explain to the freakies.
 * xubuntu671 wonders how well the iframe would work with only 600px width
<xubuntu671> ochosi: i thought just iframing it inside the content area ;)
<xubuntu671> ochosi: or, we could have a special "irc"-template that would allow to use the xubuntu "frame", but dismiss the sidebar stuff and use that too
<ochosi> mhm, maybe an irc template, 600px is not very much
<ochosi> even just 200px more would probably make it a lot more readable/convenient
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_improvements/?page_id=34
<ochosi> not bad
<xubuntu929> not bad
<ochosi> the odd color of the freenode-client kinda conflicts with ours
<xubuntu929> the font could be smaller
<xubuntu929> i wonder if that's controllable...
<ochosi> hmyeah, not sure..
<xubuntu929> (not the bg... ;))
<ochosi> ah :)
<xubuntu854> tbh i think the font-size is ok
<Unit193> Clones are attacking...
<xubuntu854> also: people can change that with their browser
<xubuntu929> imo it's too large for the iframe width
<xubuntu854> depends on your browser/dpi settings
<xubuntu854> this is what it looks like here: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03302012-025622am.php
<knome> thttp://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_shots/irc-chat.png
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_shots/irc-chat.png
<xubuntu854> i think making it 800px is better than making the font smaller
<xubuntu854> (or at least: much smaller)
<knome> heh
<knome> see the menu in top left
<knome> you can recolor the interface
<ochosi> yu
<ochosi> just found it myself
<ochosi> and wanted to tell you
<ochosi> but i'm wondering whether we can pass that as an option in the link
<knome> afaik we can
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> then i don't see any reason why we shouldn't use this
<knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&uio=MTE9MTMz98
<knome> for example...
<ochosi> mm
<knome> ochosi, we could access the iframe css with javascript and change the bgcolor to what works for us anyway
<knome> hmm, that would mean cross-domain stuff though
<knome> ;)
<knome> i think we could just add an extra div
<knome> with the same bgcolor than the freenode webchat
<ochosi> mmh
<knome> with some padding
<knome> and rounded corners
<ochosi> yeah, sounds nice-looking
 * knome tries that
<ochosi> ok, just finished the new video-mime icon testing
<ochosi> time to push that
<knome> heh
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_improvements/?page_id=34
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> if only we could change the title "connect to freenode irc"
<knome> i don't think that's possible
<ochosi> but i guess adding some more text what this is about i think is sufficient
<knome> it would need changing the page name in the wp-admin!!
<knome> well yeah
<knome> notice that this is my test-host
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> sure, but yeah, i like the whole page as is
<knome> it's easy enough to copy that to prodcution too
<ochosi> i'm all for it :)
<GridCube> i always use webchat from work :P
<knome> ochosi, if you want to play with the freenode bar to get the perfect hue... feel free to.
<ochosi> i'm on my laptop now (which has terrible colors)...
<ochosi> can look at it again when i'm back @eizo tomorrow
<knome> ochosi, it's not something you need to do *now*
<knome> sure
<knome> just paste me the uio-argument you get when completing the "add to your site" -wizard
<knome> (if you want to change other things too in the UI options page, feel free to, just notify me of changes)
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/irc should work for those who are logged in
<knome> bleh, i got hungry :<
<ochosi> k, i'm going to sleep
<ochosi> see ya
<knome> yeah, i got to go too...
<knome> nighty all, see you later
<Unit193> Adios.
<GridCube> knome, :( theres no more boat on the wallpaper
<timmillwood> just installed the 12.04 updates, but too busy to reboot.
<knome> timmillwood, well, thanks for letting us know...
<timmillwood> knome, sorry
<ochosi> hmm, i'm wondering whether anyone else can confirm a missing icon of xfce4-clipman in precise
<ochosi> because i can't, but i got a report about that
<ochosi> (i mean yeah, the icon isn't pretty maybe, but it's there)
 * jarnos played youtube in 12.04 and had pavucontrol's output devices tab open on a 500MHz P3. Then pulseaudio takes 50% CPU, pavucontrol 20% CPU and most of the rest power is left for the web browser.
<jarnos> Against which package you should file a bug report, when no mobile broadband connections are shown in networks panel applet after an usb mobile connection device is attached?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: i can't confirm the bug with the missing icon for clipman
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: it's not a pretty icon, but it's not missing
<pleia2> knome: xubuntu.org/contribute/ looks great, and fixed up a couple spelling errors/typos on /contribute/marketing/
<pleia2> I'll need more time to finish review of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/XubuntuOld - it's a lot and I need to do a refresher of all the wiki pages
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: http://img171.imageshack.us/i/auswahl008.jpg/
<mr_pouit> ochosi: it's xfce4-clipman-plugin (for the panel), xfce4-clipman (for the systray) is fine
<knome> pleia2, thanks! :)
<knome> mr_pouit, okay to upload changes mentioned in bug 969252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969252 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Bluebird rebased against Greybird for Gtk3.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969252
<xubuntu496> i am running xubuntu 12.04 for a while and now beta2 is available. If all updates are installed, does that mean i also have beta2, or do i have to download beta2?
<pleia2> xubuntu496: it means you also have beta2
<xubuntu496> Thanks pleia2
<astraljava> xubuntu496: Beta-2 only means the revision of the installable images on the cdimage.u.c server. The packages are what counts, and if you're up-to-date with them, you're on the same level with the images.
<Unit193> But things break differently with different CDs.
<astraljava> Unit193: That's a matter of the assembly of those cds.
<Unit193> Generally, yep.
<astraljava> goddamn T-bird....
<astraljava> So, it just sat there for hours on end, without doing anything. Suddenly, told me about two new emails, and when I wanted to look what they said, it just froze. I was able to close it, but UNABLE to restart it.
 * astraljava sometimes wishes he lived in the Dark Ages.
<astraljava> Now it just spews out an "input/output error".
<astraljava> Sweet.
<Pandarific> That definitely sucks. So far I haven't had an issue with T-bird. Everything is working relatively okay. Getting ready to install a bunch of stuff though so we'll see if i break it
<Unit193> I use alpine...
<micahg> astraljava: you wouldn't have bindwood installed, would you?
<Pandarific> can someone verify something for me in 12.04 real quick?
<astraljava> $ apt-cache policy bindwood
<astraljava> bindwood:
<astraljava>   Installed: (none)
<astraljava> Incredibly unbelievable. Now there are some *-1 directories in my various gmail accounts.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-31
<Brian_> On the Xubuntu info page, it was suggested that we drop by either the IRC or the developer list to offer comments or suggestions on the wallpapers for Xubuntu.  I think having a classic wallpaper is a good idea, and that's a good one for default.  Personally, I tend to set my wallpaper design to outdoor scenery.  Rivers, ocean waterfront, and waterfalls are among my personal favorites.  If there is space, I'd make a few things l
<pleia2> Brian_: it's a bit late in the development cycle for wallpaper selections (with beta2 out now we're pretty much all set for release already)
<Brian_> It would also be nice to have a way to easily link directly to wallpaper and background selection options, which could be installed with a quick click or two.  I know that Xfce has a "Looks" site, as do KDE and GNOME.  Providing easy and automatic access to those might be nice for future consideration.
<Brian_> I do not have any problems with what we have; the note on the main page suggested that we write in with suggestions, and that's all that I am doing here; these might be useful for future discussions.
<pleia2> backgrounds/wallpapers are just images, what source are you thinking these would pull from?
<pleia2> thanks for joining us :)
<Brian_> Thanks for chatting.  Do you know any testers who have used either Gateway 2000 series laptops or Lenovo 3000 series laptops in testing for this release?  I have 11.10 on my Lenovo 3000 Model Y410 and it works great.  I also have Lubuntu 12.04 02-25-12 build there...
<pleia2> not sure, some of our more active testers put their info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers but it's not remotely comprehensive of all our testers
<Brian_> and I have Kubuntu 12.04 build 02-25-12 build on my Gateway 2000 Model PA6A.  I don't know if it will be necessary to test Xubuntu 12.04 prior to release, but I can if it would provide help and its not too late.
<pleia2> I'm using a Lenovo G575
<pleia2> oh yes, we need testers up until release
<Brian_> One reason I have not tested this time with Xubuntu is that of the three variations, Xubuntu has always been the most solid, and when I've tested it in the past, it's been flawless.  Also, I've been really enjoying the 11.10 release.
<pleia2> thanks for your confidence :)
<Brian_> If it would help, I'll grab 12.04 a week or two before release and install it then to beat the rush.  Would that be enough help?
<pleia2> every little bit helps as long as you submit bugs as you find them
<Brian_> Oh definitely.  Wishing all of you well; I look forward to the end result; I will test during April; should I find any issues, I will gladly provide a solid report.  Thanks!
<pleia2> thanks!
<polyvisual> hello, I need some advice about a bug with the beta 2 release - can anyone help?
<astraljava> polyvisual: We won't know until you present the problem. :)
<polyvisual> ok, when I press the volume mute button on my keyboard, the mute notification works, but the volume doesn't mute. I've got a Lenovo G550 laptop. 
<polyvisual> Where do I go from here?
<astraljava> polyvisual: You should file a bug about it, there were some changes to volume management just recently.
<astraljava> polyvisual: I'm just trying to think on which package the bug should be filed.
<astraljava> polyvisual: Did it mute correctly previously in the precise cycle, ie. was this bug introduced just recently?
<polyvisual> astraljava: I'm not sure - I did try beta 1 and I'm sure i would have noticed if it didn't work. I'll boot beta 1 from a usb to check if it'll help.
<astraljava> polyvisual: It would, as it'd eliminate the problems in the underlying alsa infrastructure.
<polyvisual> astraljava: no problem. I'll do that and report back. Thanks.
<astraljava> Thank you!
<polyvisual> where can i get beta 1 from? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/12.04/beta-1/ is no longer hosting it.
<astraljava> polyvisual: Ahh... well, not sure, then. Maybe someone here has it, but not me.
<astraljava> polyvisual: Oh well, I'll look into the changes done in the sound management, and let you know soon-ish which package to file the bug on.
<polyvisual> astraljava: ok, I'll look around google for beta 1. maybe I'll file a bug against Canonical for completely removing old isos.
<astraljava> polyvisual: Uhh... could you check if you're bitten by bug #883485?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883485
<astraljava> polyvisual: Anyway, it seems that the fix isn't foolproof, yet, so if you could file a new bug about it on xfce4-volumed, that'd be great.
<polyvisual> Thanks I'll take a look.
<knome> astraljava, polyvisual: that should be fixed in precise.
<knome> polyvisual, also, beta2 is out now
<astraljava> knome: The talk _was_ on beta-2.
<knome> oh. weird
<astraljava> Hence the suggestion of filing a new bug.
<knome> sorry for not reading well enough...:/
<astraljava> But I'm gone, actually. Talk later.
<knome> me too
<knome> see you
<mr_pouit> knome: I can't push to lp:xubuntu-artwork anymoreâ¦
<mr_pouit> meh.
<mr_pouit> xubuntu-dev can't touch these xubuntu-artwork branches anymore, I guess that's due to your team reorg
<mr_pouit> knome: please fix that, thanks. :)
<GridCube> knome, pleia2 mr_pouit 
<pleia2> hi GridCube 
<GridCube> hi
<GridCube> m_mynaardt, here says he wants to contribute with moneys or something like that
<GridCube> i don't know what to tell him
<m_mynaardt> Ooooo!  Too fast for me to type!  :O
<m_mynaardt> But seriously; I wanted to toss a bit of money in toward Xubuntu, since that's my PC's OS.  I'm quite happy with it...
<Unit193> Last time knome and I decided may be best to look at Xfce fund options.
<pleia2> xubuntu itself can't accept money
<Unit193> ....I can.
<m_mynaardt> Me too; I can take money from anyone after all those years of driving taxis  ;)
<pleia2> http://thunar.xfce.org/contribute.html thunar (part of xfce) accepts donations
<Unit193> Just thunar? Not entire project?
<pleia2> xfce itself doesn't have their foundation set up yet
<m_mynaardt> So, I guess the best thing would be to give a few 'shekels' to Xfce and/or Ubuntu proper?
<pleia2> they said 2 or 3rd quarter this year
<pleia2> lemme find the link
<Unit193> I'd personally wait for that.
<Unit193> But, not my choice!
<pleia2> http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=5272
<pleia2> "We are still working on setting up the Xfce foundation, this is however not something that is done in a jiffy. Expectation is that we have this ready in Q2/3 this year."
<pleia2> ^^ from february
<Unit193> But they always fall behind. ;)
 * pleia2 errands
<m_mynaardt> Okay, I got that link, thanks...
<m_mynaardt> Time to get some sleep; did an all nighter at work.  Thanks for the information!
<knome> mr_pouit, yeah, i was wondering about that... i'll add you to the artwork team
<knome> mr_pouit, or just the dev-team
<knome> mr_pouit, done.
<knome> err, no
<knome> wrong team :P
<knome> mr_pouit, developers team added
<knome> what? :D
<knome> oh right.
<knome> one of xubuntu-dev admins must accept the request. so you.
<knome> i'm out for the time being again ->
<GridCube> itc: knome talks to himself
<GridCube> :P
<knome> yeah, i do that all the time...
<GridCube> :D
<knome> pleia2, ?
<Unit193> knome: ?
<knome> Unit193, hey :)
<Unit193> Hello.
<knome> i was wondering if elizabeth would have had time to look at the wiki cleanup
<Unit193> (That was a case of monkey see, monkey do)
<knome> hehe
<knome> how's things?
<Unit193> Not enough sleep, but the session this morning went well enough.
<knome> mm-hmm
<Unit193> Next month is where I'll not want to be, you?
<knome> have you had enough time to run the beta2 to see how it works our? :)
<knome> well, i have nothing to complain about
<knome> today was a stressful day (was at a wedding), but it's okay now :)
<Unit193> Was syncing it.
<knome> so, people
<knome> any ideas for an april fools joke for the twitter feed?
<astraljava> "Xubuntu switching to Debian as upstream, name change under discussion. More news at nine."
<Unit193> Something with Unity or Xfce 10?
<knome> it has to be believable.
<knome> i was thinking of unity myself, but isn't that quite obvious?
<Unit193> Would think so.
<knome> astraljava, not a bad idea.
<knome> maybe we should get some interaction
<knome> "Xubuntu to start using Debian as upstream after 12.04. Any suggestions for a new name?"
<Unit193> Released for LTSs only?
<knome> hmmh. i'm wondering if people would go "Good move!" :P
<GridCube> Xubuntu will no longer ship lts versions after 12.04
<GridCube> :P
<knome> "Xubuntu 12.10 will be codenamed the Queer Quesadilla"
<knome> "Xubuntu 12.04 will feature startup sounds by Jay-Z"
<GridCube> thats cool
<GridCube> hehehehe google maps at 8bits is awesome
<knome> or
<knome> "Starting from 12.04, Xubuntu is going to feature startup sounds. For 12.04, we recorded our contributors shouting 'Xubuntu'!"
<Unit193> Logs'll kill it.
<knome> "The Xubuntu developers have secretly created you some earcandy..."
<GridCube> xubuntu will  stop public recording the irc logs < Unit193 
<knome> hahah
<knome> or sth like
<knome> "Xubuntu is switching to Debian as upstream strating from 12.10. Join us at #xubuntu-debian to find out more!"
<knome> and then of course, the topic saying "April fools!"
<GridCube> xubuntu has too many testers and request users to stop using it
<GridCube> XD
<knome> hahah
<knome> "Since the feedback of the new logo was so negative, we will keep from branding ourself and start calling Xubuntu 'the Unnamed OS' from 12.10"
<benonsoftware> Someone join me in #xubuntu-debian :D
<knome> benonsoftware, well, the announcement is not out yet ;)
<benonsoftware> :P
<knome> "The Xubuntu team has been working on the branding under the radar. Our new slogan is: Not to be used with less than 8GB RAM!"
<GridCube> also non-pae kernel for i386
<knome> or "The new target audience is people with no less than 1 month old PC"
<GridCube> wait..what?
<GridCube> XD
<Unit193> Not to be used without Vodka!
<knome> "The Xubuntu team decided to call it a day. Our funeral party will be held at #xubuntu-forever starting from this day."
<vins> new logo looks good
<knome> vins, thanks :)
<knome> or was that an april fools?
 * knome decides not to believe anything said to him today
<vins> lol
<vins> for real..
<knome> heh, good ;)
<GridCube> hey knome i like the logo to
<knome> GridCube, hahah... yeah right
<knome> ;)
<GridCube> *wink* 
<vins> when you get a nice OS like that for free.. you cant complain about a  logo..
<knome> well, anything is up for complaints in FOSS :)
<vins> ok:)
<GridCube> i dissagree
<knome> though on technical things, patches are welcome ;)
<knome> and on non-technical issues, contribution is welcome
<Unit193> knome: You know it isn't my favorite, but I've seen worse and the reasoning is better.
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> i'm hoping you will understand how cool it is once you look at the plymouth screen long enough ;)
<GridCube> knome, it actually looks pretty cool on plymouth, but i blame the new fonts
<knome> GridCube, heh. well, condensing it a bit probably helps ;)
<GridCube> :P
<knome> hmm, i like the icon on gnomine when you are pressing mouse button down
<knome> maybe we should use that as the xubuntu logo??
<astraljava> Use whatever, it can't get any worse. *blink* *blink*
<knome> hahahahhah
 * knome liked that joke
<knome> seriously.
<knome> that was a good one ;)
<astraljava> :)
<knome> does that mean i can change the logo now?
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Actually, the new one looks so much cooler especially in the app menu (upper left corner).
<knome> mm-hmm!
<knome> so, what's our final take on the AF joke?
<astraljava> I really don't know, my humour sucks these days.
<Unit193> ...I can think of worse.
<knome> astraljava, i suppose that's a good thing, because we want a joke that doesn't sound like a joke
<knome> :P
<astraljava> Heh. Well, yeah.
<knome> "It's official: Xubuntu 12.10 will be based on Debian rather than Ubuntu. Name suggestions welcome!"
<knome> does that sound official?
<ScottL> knome, lol
<benonsoftware> knome: Don't forget the IRC channel! :D
<knome> ScottL, ;)
<GridCube> no
<knome> or,
<knome> read more at xubuntu.org/debian
<knome> and create a page saying it's april fools
 * GridCube comes from a place where april fools day doesnt exists and its rather looked as pretty mean spirited day
<Unit193> ScottL: Keep it down low. ;)
<knome> Oops! :)
<knome> We are truly sorry for any inconvenience causedâ¦ And while Debian is great, we will stick with the Ubuntu core.
<knome> Psst! However you ended up here, we ask you not to spoil the April fools joke for others. Feel free to pass around, though.
<knome> how does that sound?
<GridCube> lame
<GridCube> XD
 * GridCube will keep himself away from this
<knome> blah.
<knome> maybe we should just do it on twitter, and tell "more info soon"
<GridCube> :P as you please
<knome> mmh.
<GridCube> mmmhmm
<knome> that isn't going to planet though
<knome> maybe i should point to the twitter update on me blog
<knome> that's a good idea.
<knome> done.
 * knome is expecting to see traffic soon, the post hit planet
<pleia2> hey knome, working on wiki now
<knome> pleia2, great!
<knome> pleia2, see our latest tweet...
<pleia2> oh I hate april 1st :)
<pleia2> I am so gullible
<benonsoftware> pleia2: I'm not going to belive anyone today
<knome> heh, but this time the joke is not on you... :)
<knome> heh, we're getting replies
<knome> "very good news"
 * knome giggles
<benonsoftware> knome: Link?
<pleia2> oh dear :)
<knome> https://twitter.com/#!/i/connect
<knome> i wonder how long it takes until somebody replies with a name suggestion like AprilFoolsOS
<benonsoftware> lol
<benonsoftware> knome: Someone will as soon as it loads :P
<knome> hehe
<benonsoftware> Now I know why I don't use twitter :/
<knome> benonsoftware, which is? :)
<benonsoftware> I can never find anything I want there
<knome> well, it's not exactly the infobase...
<knome> pleia2, btw, i'm here, if you want to ask about the wiki stuff...
<pleia2> thanks :) first doing my once-through of what we still have so I have better perspective
<knome> heh, yeah
<pleia2> oh, I did mean to ask, why "-page" on /Xubuntu page?
<pleia2> first one I thought typo, second I wondered :)
<knome> huh?
<pleia2> You can read some more about Xubuntu in the About -page.
<pleia2> and again toward the bottom of thep age
<knome> no idea. feel free to fix :)
<pleia2> k
<GridCube> benonsoftware, https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/186227266974527488
<benonsoftware> Thanks
<nonau> I've been experiencing, with Xubuntu Pangolin beta 1 (updated), that the laptop doesn't seem to go into standby when the lid is closed.  This is a concern for me as the netbook will get hot after being stored in the laptop bag for a period of time.
<pleia2> nonau: what graphics card do you have, and did you install the proprietary option? (pops up as an "additional driver")
<pleia2> I've been having trouble with the FGLRX proprietary driver, and it's not actually needed
<knome> well, we have the first "can't fool me"
<benonsoftware> :P
<pleia2> (the open source driver works fine, FGLRX in 12.04 has a bug that causes the machine not to go to sleep)
<knome> benonsoftware, awwh
<knome> benonsoftware, you're spoiling it!! :P
<knome> nah, it's good :)
<benonsoftware> :P
<knome> people will at least need to look at our feed
<pleia2> I'll add the Xubuntu team report to my list of a bunch of other team reports I do every month
 * pleia2 peers at the date, should get on that!
<knome> pleia2, heh, thanks... :)
<Unit193> There's always a party pooper...
<benonsoftware> Hehe :p
<knome> Unit193, well, i won't go into a party unless they let me poop if i need to!!
<nonau> Its an Eee 1000HE so its intel integrated graphics.  945GSE @ pliea2
<pleia2> > pleia2: what's this whole "xubuntu based on debian thing" about?
<pleia2> that was quick :P
<knome> hehe
<GridCube> knome, in the front page of xubuntu, there is no link to >about us
<pleia2> nonau: I don't know specifically then, but I'd search to see if there is a bug open about it
<pleia2> (and if not, open one)
<knome> GridCube, wiki/web?
<GridCube> web
<GridCube> ooo
<knome> GridCube, what about "Read more about Xubuntu Â»" ?
<GridCube> >read more about
<GridCube> yes
<knome> ;)
<knome> pleia2, just point them to  https://twitter.com/#!/i/connect
<pleia2> that link doesn't work right
<GridCube> knome, https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/186227266974527488
<GridCube> pleia2, https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/186227266974527488
<knome> pleia2, doesn't? hmm.
<pleia2> GridCube: I know
<pleia2> GridCube: that link doesn't show replies
<GridCube> it does for me
<GridCube> but im logged
<pleia2> I'm logged in as pleia2, doesn't show replies
<knome> mm, that's right...
<GridCube> knome, in the about, could you make a paragraph explaining our lts policy of 3 years please? i need to point it to someone and i need a credited source
<knome> in irc, or somewhere else?
<GridCube> knome, in the about us on xubuntu.org if posible
<GridCube> or in a news post
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001162.html <- what about that?
<knome> or, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/914055
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 914055 in Launchpad itself "Add Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu LTS Supported fields for Precise" [Undecided,In progress]
<pleia2> once it's released it'll be in our release notes
<GridCube> thats over too technical
<knome> xubuntu is 3 years lts
<GridCube> oh well that should do
<knome> you can cite that
<GridCube> i can, but i would like to have something to cite
<GridCube> ill use the lp
<pleia2> GridCube: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
<GridCube> the lp is clear enough
<knome> pleia2, i suppose the best thing is to make them check what day it is on UTC
<pleia2> doh, that isn't the page where it says flavors can do 3 years
<pleia2> knome: hah, yeah
<knome> huh, deja vu...
<knome> even, deja vu of a deja vu situation
<GridCube> knome, was to answer to this review that says lts will be 5 years http://blog.desdelinux.net/probando-xubuntu-12-04-beta2-review/
<pleia2> ah, the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors has it
<pleia2> "Flavor's support plan presented to Tech Board and approved; support plan should indicate period of time if beyond 18months (3yrs or 5yr), key contacts, and setting expectations as to level of support."
<pleia2> ok pleia2, less IRC, more wikis
<knome> GridCube, "Per the Xubuntu LTS proposal, the Ubuntu Technical Board accepted the 3-year LTS cycle for Xubuntu."
<knome> GridCube, then link to the TB mail
<GridCube> i linked them to the lp, thats clear enough
<knome> :P
<pleia2> knome: since /marketingresources on the site will change, should we probably upload some Artwork stuff to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Precise for historical?
<pleia2> also, how did you upload an .svg?
<pleia2> (to wordpress)
<knome> MAGIC TECHNOLOGY
<knome> well, the IS uploaded my patch to allow svg's...
<pleia2> ah, good
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-01
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation needs some love, I don't really know how our docs work but it links to http://doc.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ which is more than a little out of date
<knome> mmh
<knome> i rewrote:
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
<knome> and
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/marketing/
<knome> the other subpages are going to need love too
<pleia2> ah, hadn't seen updated qa/ yet, I shall look
<knome> those are pretty much "merges" of the website stuff + stuff on the wiki
<knome> to be able to drop unnecessary duplicated info on the wiki
<knome> eg. the Bugs subpage is probably unnecessary now
<pleia2> based on feedback I got from charlie, /Testing on the wiki is more clear and should be accurate now
<knome> aha
<knome> since when?
<pleia2> I made edits when I wrote the blog post
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> that's not too bad
<pleia2> we probably want to revisit it at the beginning of the next cycle though, once we trick someone into becoming the new testing lead :)
<knome> and some of that should definitely stay there
<knome> including the testers page and the testcases
<knome> but the "how to start testing" stuff should mostly be in x.org, i think...
<knome> as the same stuff for other teams
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that way we have one place where we can point all new contributors
<knome> and the wiki is for those who want to get started already
<knome> probably "how to contribute" could be removed once we make sure all of it is in x.org
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> "projects" too, just link to the release schedule somewhere in the page :)
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | It's 1st of April | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Bugs List: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin | Daily Testing results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<pleia2> knome: when we consider a replacement application, I'm assuming we just do a casual discussion on -devel rather than the more formal /ApplicationComparisonTemplate?
<knome> well, it's good to have something formal to point to
<knome> also, i think wiki is a good tool to compare applications and gather opinions
<pleia2> that one's the first one listed on Old
<knome> i know
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/SpecificationTemplate
<knome> that's a bit less formal and scary template
<pleia2> ah, good :)
<knome> i tried to condense the stuff found on the other templates to that
<knome> everybody can use common sense in deciding what should be covered
<knome> btw, if you are okay with deleting the pages under XubuntuOld, feel free to do it right away :)
<pleia2> seems to me the BugWatch stuff is much better being tracked on LP with bug importance and stuff (but I don't know the history there)
<knome> yes, i agree with that
<knome> that's why i wondered that we still did that for precise
<knome> tbh, i didn't even know that page existed, so that's it for the watching part :)
 * knome is still lurking
<knome> https://twitter.com/#!/rreyes1979/status/186246528514539520
<pleia2> I wonder if we should keep just one of these around https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/XubuntuOld/DocumentationHardyAssignments
<pleia2> but again, I don't know about docs or how useful such a thing is
<knome> well, i'm trying to get our whole documentation rewritten in Q
<pleia2> I think we can delete everything else though
<knome> well
<knome> hmm
<knome> the latest is from intrepid
<knome> and that's just a really quick listing
<pleia2> yeah, hardy is the one with stuff in it
<knome> hardy... that doesn't look too extensive too
<knome> *either
<pleia2> whatever you think, I just think it may be useful for when we revive docs
<pleia2> one of them anyway
<knome> but those are all just sections in the offline docs?
<knome> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html
<pleia2> I think so, but the page has a framework for easy viewing of who is doing what
<pleia2> which I think may have value
<knome> if we want to assign things, that's fine
<knome> i was thinking of a more collaborative approach with etherpad
<knome>  -> paste the doc section to a pad
<knome>  -> let people edit
<knome> with some sprints, that should work pretty well
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> and if we really need a table, we can just recreate
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> that's what i was thinking
<pleia2> ok, delete 'em all!
<knome> yay!
<knome> wiki lags :D
<knome> ok, done :)
<knome> now we must only rewrite the pages
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Cleanup
<knome> pleia2, do you have an insight on the testers-page table?
<pleia2> knome: not at the moment, I'll think
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, btw, you might want to subscribe to Xubuntu/* at least temporarily as i go and change things here and there :)
<knome> pleia2, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc
<knome> pleia2, WOW!
<knome> pleia2, we have that too?
<knome> :)
<knome> gah, the wiki is really slow
<knome> pleia2, you there? quick question...
<knome> pleia2, do we want to keep the meeting agenda archive?
<knome> pleia2, i mean, they have *some* documentative value, but on the other hand, you will know what the agenda was when you look at the meeting minutes...
<knome> pleia2, there is one agenda in 2010, two in 2009, and three in 2008, rest are older
<pleia2> yeah, keep the archive
<knome> really?
<pleia2> yes, everyone does
<knome> i'm not deleting the *minutes* archive
<knome> i'm talking about *agenda* archive
<knome> which we haven't updated in over a year
 * pleia2 shrugs
<pleia2> I guess that's ok then :)
<knome> ok, good
<knome> the wiki is lagging again :(
<pleia2> it does that
<knome> okay, agenda archive deleted
<knome> now i could fix the archive frontpage and go to sleep :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> everything under Xubuntu/Archive/Minutes/ could now be moved directly under Xubuntu/Archive/ :)
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive is updated
<knome> and i'm off to bed
<pleia2> good night!
<knome> see you later! :)
<knome> good day+night to you too :)
<Unit193> Adios.
<pleia2> the wiki fails at subscribing me to more than a single page at once
<Unit193> I think the first three words said it all.
<pleia2> :P
<knome> pleia2, hmm?
<knome> pleia2, "Xubuntu/.*"
<knome> pleia2, without quotes, add that to your subscription box
<pleia2> knome: I know how to add it :) I'm saying it doesn't work
<knome> :o
<knome> i didn't know the . -trick
<knome> until recently
<knome> weird then
<pleia2> I've known this for a while, tried subbing to UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/.* a few months ago
<knome> :/
<pleia2> ok, sleepies time
<knome> nighty
<knome> starting to wrap up the "rebase" thing
<knome> https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/186404591208898561
<astraljava> Soo... how do I make the window borders easier to grab? They're way, way too thin at the moment.
<Pjotr> Hello, I have a question about the Abiword package for Xubuntu Precise.
<Pjotr> Upstream, some overdue translations have been commmitted for Abiword 2.9.x: http://www.abisource.com/contribute/translate/
<Pjotr> Will they make it into Xubuntu Precise?
<astraljava> I guess an FFe bug could be filed against it, it could be possible, but I'm not an expert WRT translations.
<astraljava> Pjotr: Give me 2 hours, I'm in the middle of a hockey game. :)
<Pjotr> astraljava: OK, thanks in advance.... good luck with the hockey!  :-)
<astraljava> Pjotr: No worries, would be good to get it in for an LTS. Thanks, neither of them are 'my teams', but then... it's hockey, after all. :)
<knome> afaik the translations deadline didn't pass yet
<astraljava> knome: Oh, cool. So just a debdiff for mr_pouit or micahg would suffice, no?
<knome> i suppose, but ask -release first ;)
<astraljava> Well, it's no biggie. I will have to create the debdiff anyhoo, so filing an FFe bug is just one more step.
<pleia2> quite the extensive april foolery on G+ (I didn't post it, but I let my co-maintainer in on the joke and he wrote a whole intro for knome's post
<pleia2> knome: btw, you can click on the timestamps in the logs to get more precise links
<pleia2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/31/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t20:37
<pleia2> oh my, the DPL retweeted
<astraljava> ochosi: knome: No idea about the window border thingie? My google-fu seems to suggest it's theme-related, but I have virtually no knowledge about them.
<knome> pleia2, didn't know that :)
<knome> aaaanyway, https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/186501460773707776
<knome> (opme
<knome> er
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Bugs List: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin | Daily Testing results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<knome> astraljava, hmm, what issue?
<BufferOverflow> Corners to resize too small.
<BufferOverflow> IIRC.
<knome> alt+right-mouse-drag.
<astraljava> Ahh... cool, didn't know that.
<astraljava> Thanks!
<knome> np
<knome> astraljava, maybe you SHOULD be following @XubuntuLinux, that tip was posted there
<astraljava> But that's _SOCIAL_, I don't do that.
<knome> i don't do that personally either. i lurk behind the @XubuntuLinux-account.
<astraljava> Whee. ssh transfer between a Studio precise box and a Xubuntu precise box was interrupted due to a corrupt packet. *facepalm*
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-26
<bluesabre_> hey micahg, have you had any luck with catfish?  Is there anything I can look at?
<ochosi> micahg, mr_pouit: could one of you please update Greybird to v1.1.1 in shimmer-themes in order to fix bug #1158431 in Raring?
<ubottu> bug 1158431 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "lightdm graybird login issues on raring" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158431
<pleia2> articles!
<knome> how many pages did we have all in all?
<pleia2> 16
<pleia2> "Installing Themes" and "Managing Themes and Styles" still need authors
<pleia2> I can reach out beyond our -devel list if needed
<knome> mmh
<knome> i'm wondering if we should combine those
<knome> i don't think they easily make 2 pages on their own
<pleia2> ah, good point
<pleia2> there
<knome> will we link to the pad urls from the wiki ?
<pleia2> yeah, I don't think we have to worry too much about vandalism
<knome> yeah, good
<knome> when would you have some time to work on "our" article?
<knome> or think if there's something else we should cover
<pleia2> should have some time over the weekend, sunday morning around this time
<pleia2> or you can get started and I can pitch in during the evenings this week as I have time
<pleia2> (I am mostly working during knome awake times during the week, like now)
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> what about the latter stuff?
<knome> i think at this point it would be better if we played editors and thought what we still need
<knome> and possibly do some estimates on how many pages would each article cover
<pleia2> I don't know that we can do the estimates, I don't know what people intend to write
<pleia2> but yeah, we should mostly be editors, I don't know what other articles to add though
<knome> mmh
<knome> i'll try to think about them and post to the channel
<pleia2> wanna create pads and link to wiki? I need to dive into work
<knome> mmh, i can
<knome> hf
<pleia2> +follow up on list
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> sure
<knome> np
<knome> done
<scottbomb> I have a question about reporting bugs during testing. I download an ISO, install it, test it, and run across a bug. I search, can't find it already reported so I create a new bug report. But the next day, on the next ISO, the bug is no longer there. I then go and change the bug status to invalid. Is this the correct way to go about it? I am checking md5 so I'm confident in the ISO integrity but maybe I sho
<GridCube> yes, that is correct, if the problem persist then you have pinpointed its origin
<knome> scottbomb, for possible future regressions, i'd comment the date the bug appeared and the date when it disappeared
<scottbomb> So I do report it the first time I see it?
<knome> scottbomb, sure, as usual
<scottbomb> Cool thanks.
<knome> scottbomb, then if it disappears, mark it invalid and comment "this no longer exists in image from xxxxxxxx"
<scottbomb> Will do, thanks.
<Noskcaj> is it possible to use gnome-screensaver instead of xscreensaver, it's not pretty either, but the pic is less scary
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Have you looked at the depends of that package or even installed it?
<pleia2> is there a not-crazy way for us to patch xscreensaver with a less scary picture?
<pleia2> "amagad computer on fire... no wait just screen lock, what?"
<Noskcaj> Unit193, i have it installed, forgot what else it installed though
<pleia2> looks like we can edit the colors with a config, but not the image
<Noskcaj> pleia2, no, there's a lot of discussion on the ubuntu forums about it
<Unit193> libgnome-desktop-3-4, which depends on gnome-desktop3-data and many more fun things.
<pleia2> yeah, gnome-screensaver pulls in like half of gnome :(
<Unit193> Just replace the xscreensaver-5.15/utils/images/logo*xmp files and recompile. :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, you say it as though that's  easy
<Unit193> Well, I was kidding, but not too bad with pbuilder.
<pleia2> I think it would be easy, but it is a patch we'd have to carry and that's never delightful (looks like we just sync from debian now?)
<pleia2> and I don't think the rest of ubuntu would love us if we stuck a mouse on it :)
<pleia2> maddernick: plz make us a xubuntu-xscreensaver
<maddernick> wasn't ochosi working on something like that?
<Noskcaj> lol, maybe if you make it look for an external photo, lubuntu won't hate us
<pleia2> maddernick: I know he was reviewing alternatives a while back
<maddernick> ah
<pleia2> maybe for 13.10 :)
<pleia2> it is something people complain about though, I watched my fiance go through the "whoa, what the" moment when he installed xubuntu
<pleia2> "oh that's just the lock screen" "with FIRE?!"
<maddernick> hehe, iirc its quite a pain to make screensavers, and image formats etc complicate matters
<pleia2> not screensavers, just changing the image on the lock dialog
<pleia2> the screensavers are fine :)
<maddernick> same thing applies :P
<maddernick> There was, iirc, this one little thing that made it horrid, I may have to look into what that was again ;)
<Unit193> pleia2: He was looking for lockers.
<pleia2> there's /usr/share/pixmaps/xscreensaver.svg & /usr/share/pixmaps/xscreensaver.xpm
<pleia2> http://www.swanson.ukfsn.org/xss/ explains how to make them
<pleia2> (and has a patch)
<Unit193> (It never really worried me, I don't get the big fuss over it.)
<pleia2> Unit193: we put all this work into making xubuntu beautiful :)
<Cheri703> and then have a crunchy looking flaming computer pop up
<pleia2> yeah
<Unit193> pleia2: Sure, but that's a given. :P
<ochosi> maddernick, pleia2: yes, i'm working on a locker for lightdm
<ochosi> hopefully we can use it in R+1
<ochosi> (it's already working though)
<Noskcaj> ochosi, can we have it in a PPA for testing purposes
<ochosi> if you put it in one, then yes :)
<bluesabre_> based on some of the things I've seen requested and my own experience, i think it would be worthwhile to make a basic proxy app for xubuntu/xfce
<ochosi> as soon as we've done a first release, i'm considering packaging
<ochosi> but not really before that
<ochosi> bluesabre_: +1
<Unit193> bluesabre_: +2
<bluesabre_> I might play with that with all the extra time I'll have while in NY next month
<bluesabre_> as well as learning java and who knows what else
<Noskcaj> bluesabre_, +3
<Unit193> (Though, I wouldn't personally use such a tool.)
<Unit193> bluesabre_: Have you seen the "LXProxy" ?  It doesn't seem to have gone much of anywhere, buuut.
<bluesabre_> I'll look into that.  Thanks Unit193
<knome> hullo.
<bluesabre_> hey knome
<knome> march 26, the official worldwide day of confused clients
<knome> :)
<knome> (not in a bad way, i've just been explaining stuff to several ones today)
<knome> ho-humm
<Noskcaj> knome, but it's the 27th. stupid timezones
<Noskcaj> i've added some stuff to most of the magazine articles, if anyone wants to look over them
<knome> i think it was 26th even in your TZ when i had those calls/discussions ;)
<knome> fortunately my clients don't call me at 11pm
<knome> (usually)
<Noskcaj> lol, it's 8am, so possibly
<knome> yeah, i just went them through. looks good
<ochosi> bluesabre_: shouldn't a proxy-settings UI be rather simplish to do? basically just setting the ENV_VAR or is there more to it?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-27
<skellat> pleia2 knome Hopefully the last merge on xubuntu-docs prior to Beta Freeze though we do need the package rebuilt and uploaded ASAP prior to Beta Freeze: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/155644
<knome> skellat, approved and merged
<skellat> :-)
<skellat> Will we be able to get a new version of the package uploaded in time for the freeze Thursday?
<knome> i hope so.
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: can either of you upload a new version of the xubuntu-docs package before the B2F?
<skellat> Okay
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2013/03/27/making-making-beautiful-beautiful/
<bluesabre> MenuLibre is now fully translatable.  http://www.smdavis.us/2013/03/27/menulibre-translations-and-13-04-support/
<bluesabre> In case any translators around here want something to do ;)
<ochosi> awesome
<skellat> https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.raring/+merge/155753
<Unit193> skellat: That won't work, it depends on python-qt4.
<skellat> Crap
<skellat> Unit193: Removed the python-qt4 dependency in the latest revision
<pleia2> we still use docbook, right?
<knome> yes.
<knome> how so?
<knome> are you by any chance trying to get the pkg uploaded? :P
<pleia2> hah, no
<knome> you should
 * knome hides
 * skellat notes the following pending matters before Thursday freeze: Rebuild and upload of xubuntu-docs, Potential merge here that would then require rebuild and upload of xubuntu-meta: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.raring/+merge/155753 , and AOB
<Unit193> skellat: Heh, you can add me for review, but I don't have any commit powers for the seed.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-28
<micahg> knome: I can try, I've got two other packages to upload tonight and not so much time
<micahg> mr_pouit: if you have time before the freeze, bug 1155335, bug 1156555 and xubuntu-docs need uploading, otherwise, I'll get to them when I get home tomorrow (about 23:00 UTC)
<ubottu> bug 1155335 in Ubuntu "FFe: Include gtk-theme-config in Raring" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155335
<ubottu> bug 1156555 in catfish (Ubuntu) "[FFe] New Catfish version" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156555
<micahg> mr_pouit: FYI, catfish seems only to install .pyc files which is why I haven't uploaded it yet
<Len-nb> todays xubuntu upgrade installs systemd-services, is ubuntu replacing upstart?
<Len-nb> This is a new install.
<Len-nb> (that is the above package is a new install or part of xubuntu)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-29
<micahg> Len-nb: upstart is not being replaced, what services (Ubuntu did switch to logind)
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> how's it going with the packaging and everything?
 * micahg still has to try to squeeze some uploads into beta 2
<micahg> just finished dinner
<ochosi> ah right, no stress
<ochosi> just inquiring about the status quo
<Noskcaj> how difficult is it to get the text colour for the login manager changed? it's near unreadable ATM
<Noskcaj> also, why is the menu so big this release
<ochosi> Noskcaj: do you have a screenshot for me?
<ochosi> although, if you're referring to certain parts of our greeter, then yes, those have been fixed in git already and are waiting for an upload by one of our packagers...
<scottbomb> I opened a bug report for that and there's a pic on there are well
<ochosi> link?
<ochosi> (or is it the one i already replied to?)
<scottbomb> lemme check
<scottbomb> #1158437             Bad color scheme on Xubuntu login
<ochosi> bug #1158437
<ubottu> bug 1158437 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Bad color scheme on Xubuntu login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158437
<ochosi> scottbomb: marked as duplicate now, the fix is in git, but not packaged/uploaded to raring unfortunately
<Noskcaj> scottbomb, that's it, i'll confirm the bug
<scottbomb> awesome
<ochosi> it's fixed already (by me), no need
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ok, should i put it in my report for the daily iso anyway?
<ochosi> you can, but as i said, it's dealt with
<Noskcaj> why is the menu so much bigger in 13.04? it has to links to the xubuntu website now.
<ochosi> with bigger you mean: contains more items?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<ochosi> right
<Noskcaj> above "about xfce" there are 2 links to the website
<ochosi> you gotta ask knome i guess
<ochosi> i dunno
<knome> Noskcaj, yes?
<Noskcaj> knome, why does the menu now have 2 links to the xubuntu website?
<knome> Noskcaj, atm, that's wanted. we need to look at revamping the about dialog for 13.10
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> Noskcaj, because we want to link people to our website and probably gain contributors
<Noskcaj> ok, good point
<Noskcaj> last question, why is the software centre logo purple?
<knome> because it is purple in elementary-cfce ?
<knome> *xfce
<Noskcaj> ok, just was a suprise to me
<ochosi> because if you install synaptic, it's the same icon, but blue
<ochosi> the easiest way to distinguish the two was to change the color
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-30
<len-1304> bluesabre, Yahoo! a working catfish! Thanks much.
<len-1304> Also I am having a problem setting up some defaults in xfce4 for Studio.
<len-1304> The /etc/xdg/xdg-sessionname/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml does not seem to set defaults for the same file in the user's directory.
<len-1304> Am I missing something?
<bluesabre> if there's a file by that same name in ~/.config or in one of the directories preceding that one in the env variable XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, it will take precedence
<bluesabre> other than that, I have no idea
<len-1304> Ya, but I am talking about a new user
<len-1304> the first time they log in their file is not the same as the default one.
<bluesabre> thats strange
<len-1304> The line in question is:
<len-1304>     <property name="SaveOnExit" type="empty"/>
<len-1304> the default is:
<len-1304>     <property name="SaveOnExit" type="bool" value="false"/>
<len-1304> The first one is the new users file
<bluesabre> you might ask mr_pouit or on #xfce, I don't know what would cause that
<len-1304> Once I play with the setting using the settings manager then it uses the same as default 
<len-1304> I asked on #xfce and got no responce at all.
<bluesabre> knome, know anything about xfce defaults?
<bluesabre> I gotta head out, but I'll bbl
<len-1304> NP
<bluesabre> It might be hard to contact anybody this weekend, everyone is probably on holiday
<len-1304> Ya, I notice mr_pouit  is on tis channel but not #xfce may he will see this whenever, I'll ask again next week.
<bluesabre> sure thing, and glad to hear catfish is finally good
<len-1304> I think that was our last bug before release.
<len-1304> Then I found another today :)
<bluesabre> be sure to log it :)
<bluesabre> gotta go!
<len-1304> Bye
<skellat> Well, it looks like we're going to be shipping 13.04 with outdated docs unless we make one heckuva case to the release team to relent and let a new version in
<knome> skellat, well docstringfreeze is on april 4
<knome> skellat, do we have a bug filed for that?
<skellat> But the chatter over in #ubuntu-release is that the archive is going to stay frozen up to release
<knome> yeah. but the freeze doesn't mean we can't get new packages in.
<skellat> So, what paperwork needs to be filed?
<knome> since we haven't passed the docstringfreeze yet, there should be no reason why those changes wouldn't be approved
<skellat> Let us hope
<knome> a bug saying that the docs is outdated and we need an upload permission
<knome> (or mostly just saying it's outdated)
<skellat> What do I file the bug against?
<knome> xubuntu-docs
<skellat> Hold on
<knome> because that's the package that needs to be updated
<knome> sure
<skellat> Have we heard from micahg as to his status on the upload process?
<knome> i don't know what the progress is
<knome> the best way to be sure if something is uploaded is to download the daily image and see.
<TheMaster> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs Is a pretty good way.
<knome> that too. :)
<knome> brb
<skellat> Okay, Launchpad Bug #1162308
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1162308 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "[Freeze Exception] Documentation File Is Outdated & New Version Ready For Upload" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162308
<knome> now subscribe ubuntu-release
<skellat> Done
<knome> now wait. :)
<skellat> Alrighty
 * skellat wanders back to his Independent Study course from the FEMA Emergency Management Institute
<knome> heh
<knome> have fun
<knome> i'm back to cleaning up the house after a board gaming night
<knome> /day
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-31
<micahg> skellat: sorry, was busy with work, will take a look later tonight
<skellat> micahg: It's all good.  Eventually I'm going to have to step up and get Per Package Upload rights perhaps or something.
<pleia2> and the doc team needs to be fixed so this is easier for everyone ;)
<micahg> skellat: you'll want to be sponsored for a while unless you're a secret Debian Developer that I don't know about ;) (and I'm happy to sponsor you)
<skellat> micahg: Only a ham radio operator.  Not a DD let alone a DM.  Many things to work on in the year ahead within the Ubuntu realm for me...
<micahg> skellat: ok, so, let's take it slow, I'll be happy to sponsor stuff for you in the mean time so you can get your feet wet
<skellat> :-)
<skellat> Launchpad Bug #1162308
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1162308 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "[Needs Sponsorship] Documentation File Is Outdated & New Version Ready For Upload" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162308
<skellat> My PPA didn't go kaboom on it
<skellat> And I have had my PPA go kaboom twice
<micahg> ok, I'm glad you tested it
<skellat> Yeah, it built okay
<micahg> it's Xubuntu only, so it shouldn't be a problem to take
 * skellat notes that these were the online classes he was messing with today as he's got applications pending to go back to school and is nervous about distance education as it was not that great around 2003-2004: http://training.fema.gov/IS/crslist.asp?page=all
<skellat> From #ubuntu-release: queuebot: (notice) [10:41:34] Unapproved: accepted xubuntu-docs [source] (raring-proposed) [13.04.0]
<micahg> ochosi: I'm sorry, I ran out of time to get the gtk-config-theme package in, I can try again after beta 2 or we can throw it in backports
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-24
<starrats> Got a question for anyone that is available.
<ochosi> !aks
<ochosi> "ask
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<ochosi> starrats: ^
<starrats> What is better to do the daily updates/ypgrades morning or night?  I did them this morning like aLways but should I do them tonight?
<starrats> I like to stay currnet.
<starrats> current
<starrats> I do the three upgrades or should back off and do the two?
<starrats> three thing 
<starrats> update/upgrade/dist-upgrade
<starrats> ochosi I was being polite, can you help me?
<ochosi> sure, but !patience
<ochosi> anyway, i don't think it makes any difference, just check for updates whenever you can/want
<ochosi> i don't think there's a specific deploy-time for the buildbots
<starrats> ah okay and thank you
<ochosi> np
<starrats> patience I do have but your 6 lines weren't patient ochosi
<ochosi> my six lines?
<starrats> ok 4 lines and ubooto came on, sorry
<starrats> ubottu came in
<ganglere> Just had apt crash after an update/reboot cycle, Bug #1296495 
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1296495 could not be found
<ganglere> Changed to public, Bug #1296495 
<brainwash> bug 1296495
<ubottu> bug 1296495 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-get crashed with SIGSEGV in pkgCache::DepIterator::IsSatisfied()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296495
<chrispage1980> can I ask where the default wallpapers are stored?
<fibz_> /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/
<chrispage1980> thankyou, I coldn't findit after I changed the wallpaper
<chrispage1980> can't see it in defects summary but when I try installing .deb files with Software Center I get "The installation or removal of a software package failed."
<elfy> knome:  I've been looking at the Settings Manager description bug, grabbed the relevant from http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/ , then found where the subtitle string is and changed it - do I just attach the edited xfce-settings-manager dialog.c file to the xfce bug?
<elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10765
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10765 in Settings Manager "Setting manager description" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> elfy: not sure that this is really an improvement, "system settings" and "settings manager" just seem to be too similar to me
<elfy> ochosi: it's the subtitle which is all wrong - it's currently Customise your desktop - which is not what the settings manager does
<elfy> it has those things in it - but it also gets populated with tools like gparted
<elfy> gparted doesn't customise your desktop - in fact you might use it to do something not at all related to the desktop :p
<ochosi> i know, but you can consider that a bug in gparted
<ochosi> not sure it should show up there, there were discussions about that
<elfy> it's not a bug ingparted - it used to land in system menu - it's a bug in whatever was changed to make it land in settings manager then :)
<elfy> whichever it is :)
<elfy> disks goes there as well, and software updates and updater a whole bunch of things which aren't anything to do with customising a desktop
<elfy> settings manager now appears to actually be a settings manager area - which is fine, but either the description is wrong or we should stop dropping everything into it imo
<ochosi> gparted's desktop file decides about that
<ochosi> and i guess it depends on what you see as "desktop"
<elfy> well I don't see installing gparted to work with usb's desktop related at all :)
<elfy> anyway - bbl - panicking about a job interview for an hour now 
<ochosi> heh, ok, good luck with the interview!
<elfy> ta
<slickymasterWork> knome: you around?
<slickymasterWork> knome: downloaded today's po_xubuntu_ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu-pt.po and it's still not showing ochosi's text to the "Make the desktop your own" slide. It's just still showing the word "Stuff" as we had before ochosi made the text
<knome> slickymasterWork, hum
<slickymasterWork> and a good morning knome :)
<knome> downloaded from launchpad?
 * starrats is waiting for brainwash to arrive
<slickymasterWork> knome: not sure if it relates but even though your https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/uife-bug-1294619/+merge/211707 has been merged it's still under 'Pending' status
<slickymasterWork> yes knome, downloaded a while ago from LP
<knome> slickymasterWork, we still need an upload
<knome> slickymasterWork, that's the reason
<knome> slickymasterWork, if you want to prepare the translation, you can update the .po file against the .pot
<knome> (from the branch)
<slickymasterWork> knome, so it's just a matter of someone poking Ubiquity Slideshow to get on with it
<knome> yes, stgraber has promised to do an upload
<slickymasterWork> I've the translation all done
<slickymasterWork> to update the .po file against the .pot I'll have to make a MP, right
<slickymasterWork> ?
<slickymasterWork> or can I just upload it via LP?
<knome> you should upload it via LP, but i don't know how it goes if you upload it before the pot file is uploaded
<slickymasterWork> hmm, so it's still better to hang on a few more days
<knome> yes
<knome> until we have the new upload
<knome> i hope we get it today
<slickymasterWork> okie dokie
<knome> because that would also mean we'd get it in for beta2
<slickymasterWork> thanks for the heads up ;)
<knome> won't get the *translations* to beta2 though...
<knome> but for final, sure
<slickymasterWork> that's what's important anyway 
<knome> https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> scroll down
<knome> left bottom part
<knome> once the trusty package says version 80, we're good to go
<slickymasterWork> good to know that
<starrats> may I ask what version is trusty at now?
<knome> starrats, what about looking at the link just posted? :)
<starrats> okay knome saw where you folks are at the moment
<knome> mhm
<elfy> morning knome 
<knome> hey elfy 
<starrats> will version 80 be the final package for the release next month or will there be more work?
<knome> we will need a new upload for the translations when that freeze lands, so at least 81
<knome> but the version number itself doesn't matter
<knome> just that we need two more uploads
<starrats> ah okay
<ochosi> brainwash: can you reproduce the "greeter doesnt exit cleanly" bug?
<brainwash> ochosi: no
<ochosi> hmkay
<elfy> hi brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, i was only able to confirm this bug after my laptop crashed on suspending: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10605
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10605 in General "Desktop icons/labels are not properly themed after login" [Normal,Reopened]
<ochosi> now i get it consistently, before i didn't at lal
<ochosi> all
<ochosi> so i'm starting to wonder whether it's solely xfdesktop's fault
<brainwash> ochosi: it's a race condition, my session start is rather slow on a fresh boot -> theme glitch, after a quick relog -> no glitch
<brainwash> ochosi: we could revert the "faulty" commit
 * starrats is waiting for brainwash to arriveand finally
<knome> slickymasterWork, ubiquity stuff should be in order now
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks knome 
<slickymasterWork> yeaps knome, Version 80 uploaded 1 hour ago
<slickymasterWork> knome: the problem subsists in the file :P
<slickymasterWork> in Version 80 file, that is
<knome> ?
<knome> hmm, right, i see
<knome> weird...
<knome> what the...
<slickymasterWork> damn connection
<knome> yeah, i see the issue.
<knome> that's weird.
<knome> because both me and stgraber updated the templates
<slickymasterWork> it's as if your MP didn't get uploaded
<knome> well it did, i merged it..
<knome> but oh well
<knome> i will have to look at it
<knome> >__<
<slickymasterWork> I'll keep waiting for good news ;)
<starrats> brainwash did yo get my private message?
<knome> bbl
<starrats> brainwash did not want to send a ubuntu-bug report but the same tings have happened to me today as yesterday.  Those things you gave me did nothing at all.  I'm baffled why i was having so much luck on getting thru start-up that the last two have just been anirritation to me.
<brainwash> starrats: please add all information to your bug report
<starrats> havent'filed it yet brainwash
<starrats> if you want me to file, it will be like the other one, ther was nothing from the term, this is way prior to term
<brainwash> it seems to be a general hardware and/or driver issue
<starrats> then should file this new report
<brainwash> I suggest that you try asking in #ubuntu+1, maybe someone there could help you with debugging the bug/crash
<starrats> ah ok will do
<Noskcaj> Anyone who'se not given me a motu testimonial, you have 5 minutes, and it's fairly important you do
<elfy> Noskcaj: might have been better to tell people earlier
<Noskcaj> elfy, I woke up 5 minutes ago
<Noskcaj> And i did
<elfy> I meant like yesterday - though if you did you can't do more than that :)
<elfy> good luck anyway :)
<Noskcaj> ty
 * elfy did do one for what it's worth a while back
<elfy> Noskcaj: at a guess I would suggest what you've been doing package wise and what you've done to deal with their previous comments
<micahg-work> ochosi, knome: -default-settings uplaoded
 * elfy saw thanks micahg-work :)
<micahg-work> woohoo, default settings update  in release pocket
<elfy> cool
<Noskcaj> So i know can upload catfish, gthumb, parole, and mugshot
<micahg-work> not yet
<micahg-work> vote needs to be finished by email
<Noskcaj> s/know can/should be able to
<starrats> those folks over in #ubuntu+1 were as helpful as an umbrella with holes in a down pour, lol
<elfy> starrats: nature of IRC - if the people who can help aren't there then it get's lost
<elfy> you just have to try again ... and again sometimes :)
<starrats> ah ok
<elfy> and sometimes you get idiots 
<starrats> I got some idiot over there and told me to use gentoo instead od a pre-release
<elfy> I know I'm in the channel
<starrats> ah okay
<ochosi> micahg-work: thanks!
<ochosi> congrats Noskcaj 
<micahg-work> ochosi, sorry that took so long, but it's in
<elfy> yea - sorry Noskcaj - congrats
<ochosi> micahg-work: well the most important thing is that it's in ;)
<Noskcaj> thanks, although i feel letdown for only getting that
<ochosi> micahg-work: and anyway, might not have been the last update/upload for this cycle
<micahg-work> that's fine
<ochosi> Noskcaj: why's that? i think it's actually pretty good, these are core apps for xubuntu
<elfy> Noskcaj: you can do more than I can :)
<micahg-work> we can do more post beta 2 (for a week or so)
<elfy> micahg-work: did you have any thoughts about this ibus/keyboard issue at all?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, yeah, but i didn't even get PPU for all of my packages from debian, let alone all of xubuntu or all of universe
<ochosi> Noskcaj: also, that motivates me to fix bugs in parole cause i know it'll get uploaded
<Noskcaj> :)
<ochosi> and there are actually a few outstanding ones...
<ochosi> micahg-work: yeah, what elfy mentions is actually one more thing we might have to do in default-settings too (disable ibus startup by default)
<ochosi> i presume you guys have talked about this already?
<micahg-work> elfy, I found a commit I thought might have been responsible, knome was doing some tests
<elfy> oh d'oh - sorry - yea I saw that on thursday ... 
<brainwash> Noskcaj: gz
<ochosi> i'm wondering though whether we really want ibus in the tray by default
<elfy> ochosi: it did take up a chunk of the last meeting - I just forgot ... 
<ochosi> that was never the case in any previous release
<elfy> ochosi: yea +1 to that
<ochosi> so personally i'd go for disabling at least the trayicon, even if ibus gets fixed
<micahg-work> ochosi, I don't like the idea of disabling ibus by default, how does that affect xubuntu in other languages
<brainwash> how does one even disable the ibus autostart?
<micahg-work> also, maybe there's someone who can help us with this that's more familiar with this
<ochosi> from what i gather, ibus is needed when you have >1 input language/keyboard-layout
<ochosi> so it doesnt affect xubuntu on other languages per se
<ochosi> but i'm +1 on getting folks in that know more about this
<ochosi> btw, ubuntu doesnt use ibus anymore
<ochosi> they switched to indicator-keyboard
<ochosi> (which we could still do)
<elfy> micahg-work: also - we never had it in the panel previously, so why would it be an issue for anyone that it wasn't previously
<elfy> at the moment it IS an issue when keyboard layout is fubar once you've logged in
 * elfy just looks at this logically rather than from a packaging pov
<ochosi> yup, i also agree with that logic
<brainwash> maybe it was there, but the tray icon was hidden
<ochosi> that's not impossible
<elfy> brainwash: maybe so - but unhiding it has caused an issue :)
<micahg-work> elfy, right, I just know it was seeded before, not sure how it was working in previous ISOs
<ochosi> micahg-work: i think part of the problem might be that unity doesnt use it anymore, i.e. less maintenance/care about the package...
<brainwash> ibus isn't even working for my main user account, it shows 1x de and 4x en_US
<ochosi> one could ask around on #ubuntu-devel tomorrow about how it worked in unity and how indicator-keyboard works now
<elfy> I'd ask but would get lost in the explanations probably lol 
<micahg-work> ochosi, that could be
<ochosi> micahg-work: if you want i can ask, but the outcome might be that we might want to do s/ibus/indicator-keyboard/
<ochosi> micahg-work: and i don't wanna be the one who is stuck with that change and then there's no uploader... (i guess you see where i'm going with this ;))
<brainwash> ibus is still present on the daily ubuntu iso
<elfy> ochosi: guy on the forum has added logs to the greeter bug he says
<micahg-work> ochosi, if that's what we need to do, let's decide, it's getting late to make major changes, but I don'
<micahg-work> t want to be supporting a broken package for 3 years
<micahg-work> ibus is seeded across the board as well
<knome> micahg-work, testing didn't really turn up as well as it could have, downgrading didn't work as expected so couldn't really do much more than confirm the bug...
<ochosi> micahg-work: ok, i'll ask seb128 about it tomorrow, i think he'll know (and if not, he can at least point me somewhere)
<elfy> we should put a cap on how long we try and sort this I guess - ie not too long
<elfy> said the man ulikely to be able to help sort it ... 
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> i also want to know why unity doesnt use it anymore
<ochosi> seeding it is one thing, activating it by default is another
<micahg-work> it's still seeded on the Ubuntu ISO
<ochosi> we can also seed it but don't let it autostart
<micahg-work> is that what they do?
<elfy> micahg-work: when I was looking at this it affected us, studio obviously and lubuntu 
<micahg-work> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7148322/
<elfy> I didn;t check all of those other ones 
<ochosi> micahg-work: well they certainly don't use the ibus trayicon anymore because i fixed a bug for them in their icon-theme today and they wanted to drop the icon for ibus(!)
<ochosi> (i actually saved them from doing so)
<knome> i don't mind about not autostarting ibus.
<knome> to be exact, i don't mind about not seeding it
<knome> however, it would need to be evaluated if there are some downsides to either
<ochosi> agreed
<elfy> I suppose what we want - is to be back where we were before it landed in the panle
<ochosi> and for that, we ideally ask "someone who knows" :)
<elfy> surely?
<micahg-work> well, everyone else is using it, so unless there's a major reason not to, I'd not like to be different in this case
<brainwash> ochosi: maybe they just integrated ibus into indicator-keyboard
<micahg-work> as it's in main, we're not directly on the hook for its maintenance either
<knome> micahg-work, agreed.
<knome> micahg-work, you happen to know any reason why we should keep https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/ ?
<micahg-work> well, I think it was used before to track tasks related to the project per Ubuntu release
<micahg-work> I think we're using blueprints for that now
<knome> the last release that it had was natty
<knome> i went and cleaned those up the other day
<knome> i think that page is just confusing for a user if they happen to land on it
<knome> and if it has no technical or social meaning for the developers either, we should remove it
<elfy> micahg-work: so how soon do we need to actually make a decision on ibus by?
<micahg-work> definitely before apr 10, the sooner the better
<knome> ochosi, micahg-work: can you elaborate
<knome> what's left to do in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-features ?
<knome> or is the last thing left to do to mark the rest DONE ?
<elfy> micahg-work: so assuming we have weekly meetings - by next weeks? 3rd? 
<knome> elfy, that sounds fair
<knome> "just dropping it from the seed/autorun" is pretty simple
<ochosi> knome: what should i elaborate?
<knome> ochosi, see the next comment
<micahg-work> I have no idea about the gtk2 indicators, I'd have to look
<knome> in that case, ochosi, can you elaborate on *that* with micah :)
<knome> as you probably understand, i'd like to get all of that blueprint done ASAP
<elfy> knome: ok - I've made a note to make sure to add it agenda if it's not decided by then 
<knome> elfy, ok, thanks
<ochosi> micahg-work: we have to make sure that they get removed for upgraders
<ochosi> micahg-work: otherwise the gtk3 indicators don't work
<ochosi> because they conflict
<brainwash> really?
<ochosi> (at least they did before upstart)
<knome> elfy, i've added that to the team calendar
<elfy> ok - even better
<micahg-work> ochosi, ok, can you file add notes about what specifically conflicts somewhere and make sure I'm subscribed (was thinking a bug against xubuntu-meta)
<micahg-work> maybe just the whiteboard would be enough
<ochosi> micahg-work: ok, however you prefer. i mostly noted it on the whiteboard in the first place in order not to forget it
<ochosi> and that was weeks ago
<brainwash> ochosi: I have them all installed (gtk2 and gtk3)
<ochosi> brainwash: that must be the upstart transition then, it really didn't work before
<brainwash> gtk2 due to ubuntu-studio I think
<ochosi> micahg-work: in that ^ case, we can also skip it
<micahg-work> ok
<micahg-work> let me know
<ochosi> and xscreensaver conflicting with light-locker is also not a problem anymore
<ochosi> because light-locker comes first in xflock
<knome> nice
<ochosi> (although it sucks a bit to have all those useless things installed, but hey...)
<knome> mmh
<micahg-work> yeah, those shouldn't conflict
<ochosi> (the price for LTS->LTS upgrading)
<micahg-work> it would be nice if xflock can be taught with a setting which to use
<brainwash> what about the double power indicator problem (upgraders)?
<ochosi> micahg-work: yeah, xflock could really use an improvement (many patches in bugzilla), somehow nobody wants to touch it...
<knome> maybe for .1
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure what to do about that
<knome> ochosi, describe it to micah who might
<brainwash> ochosi: a faq entry to explain it?
<knome> (be sure)
<ochosi> brainwash: we can't mess with user's config, and we can't conditionally *not* install  indicator-power
<ochosi> knome: ^
<knome> FAQ item seems the last effort
<ochosi> yeah, we can do that
<knome> hmm,
<ochosi> it's also not a given problem
<knome> aren't there some packages which as if you want to keep the current config or replace it with the newest?
<micahg-work> what's causing the old indicator
<micahg-work> errr.ico
<micahg-work> icon
<ochosi> micahg-work: trayicon from xfce4-powermanager
<ochosi> i disabled it in xubuntu-default-settings to resolve that for new installs
<ochosi> but we cant do much about existing configs
<micahg-work> the new indicator uses the power-manager?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> i patched it
<knome> \o/
<ochosi> the "new indicator" is indicator-power
<ochosi> so we don't (have to) maintain it
<ochosi> we can just use it like indicator-sound
<micahg-work> I supposed we still want users to have a trayicon for xfce4-powermanager even if they don't have indicator-power
<knome> brainwash, was bug 1271871 fixed by you or jackson?
<ubottu> bug 1271871 in xfdesktop "Desktop background solid color set to #7F0000 after restart despite being set to something else prior to restart" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271871
<knome> brainwash, same for bug 1284923
<ubottu> bug 1284923 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop settings dialog opens in own window" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284923
<brainwash> it was fixed by the upstream people
<knome> aha
<knome> and jackson did the packaging work?
<brainwash> I guess so
<knome> ta.
<ochosi> micahg-work: why wouldn't they have indicator-power?
<brainwash> he just did not add the bug reports numbers to the changelog
<knome> brainwash, ok, thanks
<micahg-work> if someone chooses to remove it
<brainwash> micahg-work: the problem is, that some upgraders might see both icons after upgrading to 14.04
<micahg-work> studio and mythbuntu don't have indicator-power
<micahg-work> brainwash, right, one of the options is to remove the trayicon, but I don't see it as viable
<brainwash> we hide the power-manager via global config file provided by xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> micahg-work: yeah, it's still there, it's just hidden (the trayicon)
<knome> slickymaster, the .pot file seems to be okay...
<knome> slickymaster, i wonder if the launchpad automatic translation stuff will notice that change at some point
<knome> slickymaster, for the .po files, i guess you just need to update the catalog manually
<knome> slickymaster, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/view/head:/po/xubuntu/slideshow-xubuntu.pot
<micahg-work> there should be a script to do that I would think
<knome> yeah, i'm not worrying about it since everything looks okay in the branch
<knome> slickymaster has just been asking about it and why old stuff appear
<knome> and sure, would be nice to get that stuff updated to be able to run the call for translators
<ochosi> arrr, and there i just missed elfy...
<knome> :)
<ochosi> anyway, commented on another t-bug that should be wontfix imo
<knome> #?
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1271883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ochosi> commented upstream though
<ochosi> as that's where it's really tracked
<brainwash> ochosi: 100 is max for workspaces
<ochosi> yeah, but that's still a lot
<ochosi> doesn't really change my point
<brainwash> but what is the drawback of enabling it?
<ochosi> i explained that in my comment
<ochosi> potentially lots of cpu usage, what's the benefit of enabling it?
<brainwash> try it
<brainwash> worked flawless for me
<ochosi> what's the benefit of enabling it?
<brainwash> a happy elfy
<ochosi> HUHU
<ochosi> sorry, uppercase wasn't intended
<brainwash> it works, so I've attached the diff
<brainwash> and upstream won't answer anytime soon
<ochosi> probably not
<ochosi> but gtkspinbuttons are editable by default
<ochosi> so this was a conscious decision
<brainwash> I know, it has been like this for years
<brainwash> so it's not a regression or so
<ochosi> that's not a reason for changing anything though
<knome> if i could assign any (non-existing) bug importance field for that bug, it would be... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo
<brainwash> no, but it works if editable
<ochosi> probably not always. anyway, i'm tired of arguing about that dialog's spinbutton. i added my argument and upstream most likely won't change this
<ochosi> or if they do, they hopefully have a good reason to do so
<brainwash> why didn't you just ignore the report? :)
<ochosi> (with that i mean, a better reason than just "make elfy happy" â no offense, elfy)
<ochosi> it's part of xubuntu-t-bugs
<ochosi> i went through that list right now
<brainwash> it shouldn't be
<ochosi> yup, i wholeheartedly agree
<brainwash> all this minor stuff should be removed
<ochosi> it's not even a bug
<ochosi> i'll set it to wishlist if i can and remove it from the bp
<brainwash> or bug 1271861
<ubottu> bug 1271861 in thunar (Ubuntu) ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271861
<brainwash> easy fixable, but meh
<brainwash> what is right and what is wrong
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> knome: mind to set this to wishlist? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1271883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Medium,Confirmed]
<brainwash> ochosi: new comment https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10605
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10605 in General "Desktop icons/labels are not properly themed after login" [Normal,Reopened]
<ochosi> yup, i saw, have you tried it?
<brainwash> once
<brainwash> no change
<brainwash> my session start is damn slow
<brainwash> the first on after boot
<brainwash> one
<brainwash> slow session start -> race condition
<ochosi> i'm seeing it after i had a bug with suspend
<ochosi> so apport comes up at session start and that is seemingly enough
<brainwash> apport pops up every time?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> fun, eh?
<brainwash> report the bug then :D
<ochosi> yeah, appart never finishes collecting the data
<ochosi> so eh
<ochosi> brb, testing that suggestion from the bugreport now
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> yup, also doesnt work for me
<ochosi> huhu, now apport finished with one of the bugs
<ochosi> and tada! it was a bug in apport
<brainwash> eric likes the new way of handling style changes... but we want to release something that works 100%
<ochosi> i'd really like to get to the bottom of thise
<ochosi> it's not very nice to just revert to *some* solution
<ochosi> brainwash: can you confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1295614 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295614 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop leaking memory on wallpaper change (ubuntu 14.04 with xfce)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ochosi> cause i can't
<fibz_> i have a fresh install i can let sit for a while and see what happens
<brainwash> oh, forgot to monitor the mem usage
<ochosi> i did that
<ochosi> i set the change to 2secs and waited a while
<ochosi> actually the first time i read it, i entirely overread how he changes the bg
<ochosi> with "variety"
<ochosi> obviously not knowing that there is a builtin wallpaper-changer
<ochosi> or somehow not being happy about that one
<brainwash> but still, it's xfdesktop changing the wallpaper in the end
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/requirements/
<knome> surprise!
<fibz_> if not already, that should be a trigger for the bot
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-25
<knome> why?
<Unit193> And, indicator-sound pulls in a nasty "dep" now. :/
<ochosi> Unit193: which one?
<fibz_> knome, because the xubuntu MSRq is a very common support question.
<knome> the channel shouldn't be full of factoid triggering though
<knome> i haven't seen it asked that often really...
<Unit193> ochosi: unity-greeter-session-broadcast -> url-dispatcher-tools -> url-dispatcher -> click (the stack.)
<knome> "1gb" is three letters, "!requirements" is 13, even "!sysreq" is 7
<ochosi> Unit193: meh, that's annoying, can you file a bugreport about it? i can talk to larsu tomorrow
<ochosi> Unit193: ideally just ping me with the bug-link and i'll bring it up, gotta go to bed now
<ochosi> night!
<knome> nighty
<Unit193> ochosi: I didn't even have to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1297034
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1297034 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Do I really need 17 click or phone related packages on a Desktop install?" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Hahaha!  Unity user too!
<slickymaster> knome: "Update Wikipedia with up-to-date information" -> you are referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu#Xubuntu_14.04_LTS and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu#Applications only, right?
<slickymaster> and probably same changes in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu#Goals ought to be done
<slickymaster> mirroring the new recommended system resources -specs
<bluesabre0> micahg: if you happen to be around, we've got the ack to upload light-locker-1.4.0
<bluesabre0> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1296456
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1296456 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Upgrade to light-locker 1.4.0" [High,Triaged]
<bluesabre0> I will follow that with a light-locker-settings release tomorrow (will need another sets of approvals)
<Noskcaj_school> Can someone with triage rights have a look at all the thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_slice_free1()  bugs?
<micahg> bluesabre0: why not land them together?
<bluesabre0> micahg, working on the release now
<bluesabre0> knome, micahg, ochosi, lderan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1297058
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1297058 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [UIFe] Please update light-locker-settings to 1.2.0" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<micahg> bluesabre0: make sure you get lubuntu sign-off as well since it's seeded by them
<bluesabre0> ok, will do, micahg
<bluesabre0> #join #lubuntu-devel
<bluesabre0> woops
<micahg> do they have a dev channel now?
<bluesabre0> nope
<bluesabre0> :)
<bluesabre0> sent a ping out at #lubuntu
<bluesabre0> heading to bed now, let me know if you need me to change/update anything
<fibz_> i can confirm the wallpaper switching bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1295614
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295614 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop leaking memory on wallpaper change (ubuntu 14.04 with xfce)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Unit193> bluesabre0: gilir isn't on IRC right now, and doesn't generally idle.
<bluesabre0> Unit193: do you have a suggestion, or should I subscribe him to that bug?
<Unit193> Sub+mail?
<Noskcaj> ali1234, You were looking at thunar crashes weren't you?
<Noskcaj> Because there's around 10 different "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_slice_free1()" bugs, all set to private. all are from since the 13.10 release
<elfy> ochosi: it'd take more than some random guy on a random channel in freenode randomly agreeing with a bug I reported to make me happy :)
<elfy> pleia2 knome - can someone socialise the final beta test call please
<elfy> tia
<elfy> knome: I started draft for final beta release notes 
<elfy> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> I would appreciate as many of you as possible to test the Final Beta before it's too late - thanks :)
<elfy> first new bug for beta ... bug 1297170
<ubottu> bug 1297170 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297170
<bluesabre0> thats an improvement
<bluesabre0> we had the debian wp for a bit
<bluesabre0> I'll test the beta tonight
<elfy> cheers
<elfy> still get Debian swirl under the try and install buttons too
<elfy> bluesabre0: this new one is the desktop wallpaper once it boots the livesession
<bluesabre0> ah, gotcha
<elfy> and once installed - same wallpaper
<bluesabre0> lovely!
<bluesabre0> ochosi... didn't you commit a fix for the wallpaper?
<elfy> hi brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy
<slickymasterWork> hey brainwash 
<brainwash> saw your wallpaper report
<brainwash> hello slickymasterWork 
<brainwash> so we are ready for the final beta... and the xubuntu wallpaper is not being displayed (xfce one instead)
<brainwash> :)
<elfy> yep
<elfy> brainwash: atm we get both wallpaper bugs - debian at the Try/Install stage - then XFCE on live session and after install
<elfy> and the ibus one ... ;)
<brainwash> the user will be confused
<elfy> I also got this today - couldn't be bothered to file a new one - cub says he's going to do that 
<elfy> bug 1201762
<ubottu> bug 1201762 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install from live session: Failed detection of keyboard layout" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201762
<elfy> which could well be tied up with the other issue I guess
<brainwash> possibly
<elfy> ok so that's seriously bizarre 
<elfy> install - get xfce wallpaper - install to test resize - get xubuntu wallpaper
<brainwash> elfy: want to mark bug 1294209 as incomplete? we got basically not information other than the desktop did freeze at some point
<ubottu> bug 1294209 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Deleting files from desktop freezes machine for short period" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294209
<brainwash> maybe due to the user configuration, hardware setup, driver malfunction
<elfy> I just commented 
<elfy> brainwash: if it is something like that then I'd wonder why I don't see the same behaviour elsewhere
<brainwash> ok, so it's the same user account?
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> can you test with a different user please
<elfy> anyway - bbl 
<brainwash> bye
<elfy> not today I can't - I am smack bang in the middle of testing beta's 
<elfy> oh - forget the bizarre behaviour now the desktop is up it is XFCE - but I did see xubuntu before desktop loads
<ochosi> bluesabre0: no, haven't looked at the wallpaper bug at all. waiting for knome to finish the wallpaper...
<ochosi> Unit193: hey, did you eventually report a bug about indicator-sound's changed depends?
<ochosi> knome, micahg: (1) ubuntu uses/installs ibus by default
<ochosi> knome, micahg: (2) they use indicator-keyboard, which relies on unity-settings-daemon to apply all settings (i.e. we can't/don't want to use that)
<ochosi> knome, micahg: (3) i think we should a) debug that problem better and get to the bottom of it and b) hide the trayicon by default, as that was also the case previously and it's only needed for ppl with >1 kb-layout/input-lang (and they have to set those up via ibus-prefs, where they can activate the trayicon if they want)
<ochosi> elfy: would you be available (or: when?) for helping with (3) a) ? ^
<brainwash> ochosi: will hiding the trayicon solve the problem? the daemon is still running in the background
<ochosi> brainwash: no, that's why it's only b)
<ochosi> at least i presume it won't solve the problem, but then again, how would i know, i've never experienced the bug
<elfy> ochosi: when? 
<ochosi> elfy: whenever we're both available i guess
<elfy> will be a bit later on - painting and testing atm
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> just ping me, i *should* be available for some debugging
<ochosi> or can you already judge about when that'd be?
<elfy> well I was hoping to get away with 2 coats ... but it's not looking good lol
<elfy> ochosi: are you about this evening ?
<ochosi> hm, evenings are a mixed bag
<ochosi> can't really say
<elfy> ok - well I'm holiday all week so ... 
<brainwash> ochosi: simply create a new user and select en_GB on the login screen
<brainwash> log in and see what the try icon says
<ochosi> what happens for you when you do that?
<brainwash> the tray icon lists en_US
<brainwash> oh ****
<brainwash> desktop icon are not sized properly
<brainwash> config window says 48px, but it only changes to a bigger size after adjusting the icon size manually
<brainwash> so it's ~32px on a fresh login
<brainwash> + new account
<ochosi> but the greeter doesn't mess with ibus or the kb-layout at all, it only sets the locale
<ochosi> so if you don't set en_GB as keyboard layout during installation time, how should it be shown by ibus?
<brainwash> what about new user accounts?
<ochosi> those will use the system settings by default i guess
<ochosi> we don't have a special dialogue where you're asked about keyboard-layout after you selected it in ubiquity
<elfy> brainwash: delete from desktop works ok for a new user
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for testing
<brainwash> ochosi: so switching the language to en_GB does not alter the kb layout to en_GB, or ibus is simply not able to map it this way
<ochosi> brainwash: that's only the language in the greeter, as i said. that has no effect on the kb-layout
<brainwash> yes, that's what I said
<ochosi> there's even a patch for adding a greeter-native kb-layout-switcher, but we simply haven't had the time to review/include that
<ochosi> yup, that's it
<ochosi> so i'm wondering whether this is not a misunderstanding maybe instead of a bug
<ochosi> at least i don't know how to reproduce it here now
<ochosi> and my connection is too bad to dl an iso-file
<brainwash> maybe
<ochosi> which is why i wanted someone to test this from the start
<brainwash> so we need to know what happens if ibus is not present and new user account is created
<elfy> a misunderstanding?
<elfy> brainwash: I can test that 
<ochosi> brainwash: well we'd want to test again starting from the installer
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, in the sense that you could have forgotten to define the kb-layout to en_GB in the installer and hence the default en_US is used by ibus
<ochosi> and since the greeter's language menu could be mistaken for a kb-layout-switcher, you thought you could change it there
<elfy> ochosi: not the case - I tried more than once, and in lubuntu and studio and ubuntu and kubuntu and 5 beta tests today
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> just wanting to make sure
<elfy> you set keyboard during install and it ignores it :)
<elfy> yep - that's ok 
<ochosi> well i dunno, i set it to DE and that works fine
<elfy> and I've had numerous people with UK keyboards all confirm it :)
<brainwash> en_AU too, or?
<brainwash> basically all the variants I think
<elfy> brainwash: nope - just UK 
<ochosi> that's weird
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> you can add UK to ibus and that works - or purge ibus and that works - but the issue is that we didn't get this when ibus wasn't in the panel
<elfy> and you shouldn't have to do either of those things 
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> elfy: so when you disable the trayicon and restart your session that works?
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1272057
<ubottu> bug 1272057 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop icon size is not explicitly defined" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272057
<brainwash> icons should be now 48px, but they are smaller when you create a new account
<brainwash> could be related to the recent style change problem
<elfy> ochosi: checking
<elfy> ochosi: so - setting ibus to not show in panel then logout/in makes no difference 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, thought so.
<ochosi> elfy: what does localectl say about your Layout?
<knome> hey elfy 
<knome> ochosi, 
<knome> comments: http://xubuntu.org/about/
<ochosi> knome: sounds good to me!
<knome> sounds?
<elfy> and me 
<knome> do you use text-to-speech?
<knome> you too?!
<elfy> sounds like the allman brothers atm
<knome> ok, i'll mark the work item for that "DONE", we can improve later
<elfy> knome: wait
<knome> it's DONE, but feel free to comment :P
<elfy> ochosi: I'll do that as soon as this one has installed
<elfy> comments are \o/ 
<knome> heh
<elfy> looking at sentences and spelling now ... 
<knome> sure
<knome> i'll release the edit lock
<knome> so if you feel like it, just go and fix
<elfy> oh d'oh - can do it myself lol
<knome> yep
<elfy>  The community infrastructure and communication should be made as good as possible to enable 
<elfy> not sure what to do with that sentence though ... 
<elfy> I added a 'be' is all :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> well could be just "should be as good ..."
<elfy> mmm - it's the as possible as well 
<elfy> how about "The community infrastructure and communication should be robust enough to enable the contributors to direct their efforts into making Xubuntu better and not resolve irrelevant issues.
<elfy> knome: ^^
<knome> yeah worksforme
<elfy> all done then :)
 * elfy likes recommended system resources by the way 
<knome> goodie
<elfy> ochosi: nothing unexpected in locaectl http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7151268/
<micahg> ochosi: your plan sounds fine
<knome> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi knome 
<knome> what's up?
<knome> also, nice to see you around more
<knome> slickymasterWork, ubiquity slideshow translation issues resolved
 * elfy is not doing anymore tests today 
<knome> yeah, fair ;
<knome> ;)
 * knome is translating the slideshow
<elfy> I purged vbox as well :p
<knome> haha
<elfy> not doing any tomorrow either :D
<elfy> good old Mr Elkins has weighed in on testing :)
<ali1234> what do you mean "irrelevant issues"?
<ochosi> elfy: when going to the ibus preferences (in the settings manager) in the advanced tab, is "use system keyboard layout" ticked
<ochosi> elfy: or is "customize active input methods" ticked in the "input method" tab? or both?
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we just need different default settings for ibus, e.g. use the system layout by default
<ochosi> would be nice if you could check what combination of settings resolves the issue for you
<knome> ali1234, like fighting with skype that doesn't work...
<knome> ali1234, or not having a bug tracker...
<knome> ali1234, or not having the tools to track blueprints...
<ali1234> skype works fine here
<knome> ali1234, or not having the communication medias...
<ali1234> but i see what you mean
<knome> yep
<knome> it's more behind-the-curtains
<ali1234> yeah that's not clear from the page. "making Xubuntu better and not resolve irrelevant issues." sounds like you want to top-down dictate which bugs *in xubuntu* we fix and which ones we ignore
<ali1234> i know that's not true, but that's how it reads
<knome> it is... look at the context
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> "enable the contributors to direct their efforts into making Xubuntu better and not resolve irrelevant issues"
<ali1234> reads the same as
<ali1234> "enable the contributors to direct their efforts into making Xubuntu better by resolving relevant issues"
<ali1234> i would just end the sentence after "better."
<knome> elfy, ^
<ali1234> irrelevant issues are irrelevant, lol
<ali1234> or perhaps irrelevant isn't quite the right word. perhaps "peripheral" would be better, if it weren't already overloaded in the computing world
<knome> uah
<knome> peripheral things *are* which we want to improve
<knome> in a way...
<ali1234> yes, so that contributors don't have to
<knome> well,
<ali1234> but people might think of "peripheral" as in their printer
<knome> the contributors might have to do that as well :P
<ali1234> "why u no fix my printer driver?"
<knome> well that's not what we are talking at all in that section
<ali1234> i know
<knome> i guess you can *always* misunderstand
<ochosi> ali1234: that question could go into the FAQ ;)
<knome> there is no way to make it completly unambiguous
<ali1234> i know exactly what you mean, now you've explained it :)
<knome> especially since we explain more of it in the strategy document
<knome> this is just a brief overview
<ali1234> also grammar wise it should me "resolving" not "resolve" so that it matches "making"
<knome> ochosi, allÃ¶
<knome> ochosi, is there really a "Desktop Settings" -item in the settings manager?
<knome> or isn't it just "Desktop" ?
<ali1234> unless you mean "should be made as good as possible and not reolve irrelevant issues" - which actually makes sense... hmm
<ochosi> knome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-25-151742.php
<knome> ochosi, why you write "Desktop Settings" in slideshow?
<knome> :P
<knome> or, Y U
<ochosi> did i?
<knome> yeah...
<GridCube> nice to see you are up to the current internet trends knome 
<ochosi> if i did, i meant "Desktop settings"
<knome> weirdly enough, it's not translated to finnish...
 * ochosi needs coffee
<ochosi> bbiab
 * knome stubbornly translates
<knome> we need more xfce translations downstream
<knome> and i need xfce translation access
<knome> ochosi, it's in the "app path", so it should be as the item says, not anything additional
<elfy> ochosi: when I've gone to ibus settings in the recent past it has had 'use system keyboard layout' ticked
<elfy> which is also set in the keyboard settings in settings-manager as US 
<elfy> so fiddling with a default isn't going to help
<ali1234> yeah so the problem with that sentence is it isn't clear if it means "the infrastructure should not solve irrelevant issues" or "contributors should not solve irrelevant issues"
<elfy> ochosi: just checked one of todays installs - concurs with that 
<elfy> ochosi: ibus would be fine where it is I suspect if the system keyboard layout was set correctly
<slickymasterWork> knome: thanks for the heads up on ubiquity slideshow
<slickymasterWork> after uploading it, I'll take a look at the about page
<knome> slickymasterWork, after looking at the about page, look at the tour page ;)
<slickymasterWork> alright. Anyway what was the problem with the ubiquity pot files?
<knome> they were stuck in the import queue
<knome> for some unknown reason
<slickymasterWork> well, what it matters is that is fixed :)
<knome> yep
<knome> imports were forced today
<knome> i did a few tweets on twitter, those of you who are registered, please retweet:
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/448472539128680448
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/448472851247808513
 * slickymasterWork doesn't have twitter
<elfy> knome: super - was just about to ask if that had been done :)
 * elfy doesn't have twitter either
<GridCube> knome, question, in "We'd love to hear about your experiences with Xubuntu. You can share them on the <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users">Xubuntu users mailing list</a>" should i add that its only in english?
<knome> yes
<knome> that would be fair
<cmars> i just discovered the whisker menu. is this new in trusty or am I just a slowpoke?
<knome> the whiskermenu is enabled by default the first time in trusty
<cmars> perfect
<cmars> i must have had an old profile :)
<GridCube> :/ i've done the translations but it doesnt accept them
<knome> are you in the spanish translation team for ubuntu?
<GridCube> probably not
<knome> that's why they aren't accepted
<GridCube> right
<GridCube> i asked to join
<knome> yep, cool
<slickymasterWork> knome: ubiquity pot file uploaded
<slickymasterWork> in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+imports its status is Needs Review
<knome> slickymasterWork, huh?
<knome> po file you mean?
<knome> apparently, i can't approve that...
<slickymasterWork> do you have any idea of who gets to review the translations? local teams? is there any automatic trigger that launches the review call?
<slickymasterWork> yes, I meant po file :P
<knome> i've no idea
<slickymasterWork> my fear is that the review call might end up lying in Portuguese translators mailing list team
<knome> lol
<knome> well, poke them
<slickymasterWork> and no one will do anything
<knome> if they aren't active, apply to be an admin
 * elfy lends slickymasterWork his sharp forum poking stick
<knome> and approve yourself ;)
<slickymasterWork> that team is in some sort of a limb state
<elfy> limbo :)
<slickymasterWork> thanks elfy ;)
<slickymasterWork> +o
<elfy> unless it's 'armless ... 
<slickymasterWork> in the meanwhile, I'll think I'll copy/paste each string into rosetta
<slickymasterWork> at least I'll get things done
<knome> elfy, well done
<elfy> sorry - had to be done ... 
<knome> the pt.po is approved
<knome> bbl
<slickymasterWork> knome: oddly the po file status is now 'Approved'
<slickymasterWork> who the hell approve it? 
<elfy> [15:32] <knome> the pt.po is approved
<elfy> [15:36] <knome> bbl
<elfy> you'd quit 
<slickymasterWork> yeah, it's this lousy connectivity I have here :P
<slickymasterWork> thanks knome 
<slickymasterWork> and thanks elfy, always a gentleman
<elfy> welcome as always :)
<ochosi> elfy: but the system keyboard is set correctly, you confirmed that with the localectl output
<ochosi> and afaik xfce's keyboard-settings have "use system default" as default
<elfy> ochosi: yes agreed
<elfy> and it used to work fine for me :)
<elfy> I'd sya perhaps it's ubiquity - but then wouldn't the greeter want to use US
<pleia2> posted call for testing on fb and g+
<ochosi> elfy: the greeter uses the system settings and you can't change the layout there
<ochosi> but yeah, the only pointer we have so far is that removing ibus fixed things for you...
<ochosi> (and that's not very much, tbh)
<elfy> pleia2: ta :)
<brainwash> not very much? :D
<elfy> ochosi: yea :( so - from what I can observe greeter uses system settings - which at that point is GB, then once logged in system sets to US 
<ochosi> elfy: that's misleading
<ochosi> it doesn't use the system settings once logged
<ochosi> in
<ochosi> that's exactly your problem
<ochosi> it gets overridden by en_US for some odd reason
<ochosi> if it would use the system settings (like the greeter), everything would be dandy
<brainwash> was the output of localectl already posted?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7151268/
<ochosi> this is it ^
<elfy> yes - but if you go look at gui's then once logged in system settings appear as US
<brainwash> the xfce keyboard settings dialog?
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> but xfce is told to use the system default
<brainwash> so my system kb layout is DE, but if I create a new user account the user layout is set to en_US (ibus)
<ochosi> brainwash: and localectl says DE?
<brainwash> ochosi: de, nodeadkeys
<brainwash> so yeah, a bit strange
<ochosi> so the question is, where does ibus get that info from?
<brainwash> accountsservice does save input_sources per user account
<brainwash> maybe if that info is missing...
<brainwash> like for a new user
<elfy> aren't we looking at this the wrong way - why worry about a new user - and not just worry about what someone installing is getting
<elfy> also - just did a vm upgrade test, so someone with a perfectly working keyboard set up in 12.04 ends up with a fubar one in 14.04
<ochosi> elfy: well i suppose that'd be the same (new user = new install)
<brainwash> and we should care about new users too!
<brainwash> :D
<elfy> mmm - possibly, but a new install is getting information input during install 
<elfy> brainwash: I'll care about new users when ones telling the damned thing what they want are ok :p
<brainwash> so telling ibus to use the system xkb layout does not help?
<elfy> yes it does
<elfy> I've said that at some point
<elfy> but that is beside the point - as you have to go and do it :)
<brainwash> right, we can apply this setting via xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> until we know what is really going on
<ochosi> that is one way to deal with it
<elfy> ok - so who's going to check all the languages ;)
<elfy> s/layouts
<ochosi> why would that be necessary?
<ochosi> i thought that works generally?
<elfy> no idea ochosi 
<ochosi> i thought you "said that at some point"?
<elfy> or can we set the setting to be whatever the system layout is
<elfy> ochosi: I did - I checked for me 
<ochosi> nah, using the system layout is the only thing i think
<ochosi> i'm not even sure yet how ibus stores its config
<elfy> I did try to find something but couldn't 
<elfy> if we can do that and it works then that's better than not having ibus
<elfy> this whole thing is confusing me completely :)
<brainwash> but changing the setting might mess with upgraders who configured ibus to use different input methods
<ochosi> brainwash: no, upgraders will always keep their settings
<ochosi> we can only set the default anyway
<brainwash> no, we are talking about gsettings key
<brainwash> if the change the default, it will affect all users who did not alter the key yet
<brainwash> if we
<ochosi> so ibus stores its settings only in gsettings?
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> no rc file or anything?
<ochosi> i mean no way to ship a default config for it?
<brainwash> I think no, only saw the gsettings stuff
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> ochosi brainwash - not sure if this is of any interest, had a 12.04 vm, keyboard is set to GB, setup ibus with the chinese layouts available, upgraded to 14.04 - keyboard is now US
<elfy> bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: we need https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9199#c2
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9199 in General "Desktop icons shrink when opening "Desktop Settings" for the first time" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, that looks like it makes sense :)
<brainwash> the desktop is pretty messed up right now :D
<brainwash> smaller desktop icons, non transparent labels, wrong wallapper
<brainwash> "final beta"
<brainwash> and I'm not sure what to do packaging wise, wait for a new xfdesktop point release or just apply patches directly, maybe eben revert bad commits
<ochosi> well the wallpaper is going to be fixed by the UIFe i guess
<brainwash> why is it broken?
<brainwash> did you change the path so it's pointing to the trusty wallpaper already?
<brainwash> elfy: this needs to be discussed in #ubuntu-desktop and/or -devel
<galbi> if install xubuntu 14.04 BETA now will i be able to upgrade to the official release without burning a new iso?
<holstein> galbi: yes
<galbi> so some day i will receive the notification that a new version is avaiable like when upgrading from previous stable versions
<galbi> thanks
<holstein> no
<holstein> you are already on 14.04.. so, you should just upgrade as you want to upgrade, and get the upgrades
<galbi> oh
<galbi> even simpler
<holstein> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade is what i would be doing, while keeping track of things in..
<holstein> !14.04
<ubottu> Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr) will be the 20th release of Ubuntu.  See the announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1295 for more info. support in #ubuntu+1
<holstein> ^ #ubuntu+1 channel
<holstein> and here, as well
<elfy> brainwash: have fun then ;)
<jhenke> hi
<brainwash> hey jhenke 
<brainwash> hey Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> morning brainwash 
<dkessel> wow... what is the cause of these new desktop bugs? is the xubuntu-default-settings changes? or could it have been discovered with earlier daily isos?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: can you please mark bug 1294600 as wishlist? :)
<ubottu> bug 1294600 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Add support for tear-free compositing in Xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294600
<brainwash> dkessel: what new bugs?
<dkessel> brainwash: I mean your message at about 18:39:25
<brainwash> sadly we got a bit unlucky
<brainwash> the wallpaper one is new, the label one is a recent regression and the icon size problem has not been noticed so far
<dkessel> ok
<brainwash> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
<ochosi> brainwash: i haven't looked yet, i'll look when the new wall is ready
<ochosi> elfy: 're you around?
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> i just started to talk to attente in #ubuntu-desktop about the ibus bug
<ochosi> he hasn't replied yet
<elfy> shall I pop in there then
<ochosi> i just described a bit what we're seeing so far
<ochosi> yes, that was the implication ;)
<elfy> I thought so :p
<ochosi> just to make sure i don't tell something that's not true :p
<ochosi> backlog coming up via PM
<elfy> cheers
<elfy> ta - and who is attente?
<elfy> something to do with a flavour? or?
<ochosi> seb128 recommended him
<ochosi> no, unity guy i guess 
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> (haven't talked to him before)
<brainwash> ochosi: <property name="workspace0" type="empty"> ?
<brainwash> so you did not change the wallpaper path/filename
<brainwash> but the xml structure
<brainwash> I'm confused :D
<elfy> ochosi: updated 12.04 to 14.04 has old menu still - is that expected?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> panel-layout and personal settings are never overridden by upgrades
<elfy> ok - not a problem then :D
<ochosi> (unless there's a migration-script, which there isn't)
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> good
<brainwash> right, a script for the first start after the upgrade would be nice
<ochosi> not sure
<brainwash> to ask the user if the wants to keep his old panel layout or apply the new one
<brainwash> if he
<ochosi> possible, but not necessary
<ochosi> staying out of the way is nice too
<ochosi> by default
 * elfy lols at ochosi bearing testament to elfy being a whiner :)
<ochosi> i'd rather have ali1234's nice panel layout switcher app
<ochosi> elfy: you're welcome ;)
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> ochosi: so what's the issue with the xfdesktop config file?
<ali1234> it has completely changed
<ali1234> but it also supports the "old" style
<ali1234> the new format uses monitor plug names, so you can't make a "default" setup using it at all
<ali1234> you have to use the old one, and let it convert it at first startup
<ochosi> brainwash: i'll look into that later, still waiting to sort out ibus first...
<brainwash> mmh
<ali1234> this has "issues" which are quite complex and would take me a few pages of text to explain
<ali1234> also you'd need to read the code as well
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xubuntu-default-settings/trusty/revision/143
<dkessel> elfy what about the other KB layout bug from saucy that stopped when ibus was removed? don't know if it helps to mention this...
<brainwash> it's https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/xfdesktop_background
<brainwash> see the diff
<ali1234> that tear-free bug should be "opinion" or "wontfix" as appropriate :)
<brainwash> zzzzz
<ali1234> we already have tear-free on open source drivers, and opengl X compositing sucks on the proprietary drivers
<brainwash> so you don't plan to improve it by implementing an opengl backend? =S
<ali1234> hell no
<ali1234> it won't get fixed until nvidia supports dri3 and present
<ali1234> then we can do tear-free without opengl
<ali1234> everything else already has tear-free afaik
<ali1234> if you want opengl compositing use compton
<ali1234> i think i posted that on the bug already
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be one reason to switch to nouveau. broken suspend and broken powermanagement is the downside though :>
<ali1234> it doesn't actually fix the problem though
<brainwash> it's not about me, it's about improving the user experience by default
<brainwash> for everyone
<ali1234> opengl compositing won't improve it. it will just make it slower
<ali1234> it doesn't actually fix tearing even
<ochosi> +1
<ali1234> i don't literally mean you brainwash, i mean users in general :)
<brainwash> we could integrate compton into xfce, but that's a no-go too
<ali1234> the only way to fix it is using present
<ali1234> and that isn't supported anywhere yet
<ali1234> but it will be
<ali1234> and i already implemented it in xfwm
<ali1234> so yeah
<brainwash> oh, or use Xmir :D
<ali1234> i don't think either Xmir or Xwayland support present. but it would be amazing if they did
<ochosi> ali1234: do you have a non-nvidia graphics card or did you test it with nouveau?
<ali1234> test what?
<ali1234> present support?
<ochosi> tear-free present with xfwm4
<ochosi> yup
<ali1234> right, X in trusty has present, but without dri3 present still tears
<ochosi> oh
<ali1234> so i can test that present support works (because it draws stuff) but it still tears until nvidia supports dri3
<ochosi> so you never got to enjoy the full goodness of your patch?
<ali1234> currently no drivers support dri3
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> probably keith packard is the only person in the world who could currently get benefit from the patch :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> he patched the intel driver for dri3?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and mesa
<ochosi> crap, will take a while to trickle down
<ochosi> i remember the present-presentation now
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> i saw it when it was linked on phoronix
<ochosi> and he said that he can't look at normal X sessions with tearing anymore now 
<ochosi> that made me very very sad
<ochosi> :)
<ali1234> tearing is annoying but awful slow opengl compositing is worse
<ali1234> that's why i stopped using compiz
<ochosi> yeah, i never managed to use compton for more than 10mins
<ali1234> did i tell you, i got the compton dev to implement hybrid compositing?
<ali1234> it uses xrander to compose all the windows, then draws the final result with opengl
<ali1234> it actually works pretty well
<ali1234> much less tearing, and smaller performance hit
<ali1234> but it is kind of a crazy hack
<ochosi> oh, what does that to
<ochosi> do
<ochosi> ah i remember
<ochosi> that was your idea from a while ago
<ochosi> before the present presentation
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> well crazy hack my ass if it works :)
<ali1234> give it a try :)
<ochosi> is it released already?
<ali1234> it's on the git repo
<ochosi> ah
 * ochosi checks
<ali1234> it's not a perfect solution
<ali1234> i'd rather wait for present/dri3 to become available, before i start rewriting huge parts of the compositor
<ochosi> it's this one, right?
<ochosi> https://github.com/chjj/compton
<ochosi> yeah, i understand
<ochosi> seems to be the same guy who works on skippy-xd
<ochosi> i have never read the code, only heard that it's very hacky
<ali1234> yeah, here is the commit: https://github.com/chjj/compton/commit/fbd70e146c6fa46250dc2b435afb347c3cf54539
<ochosi> but it would be nice if it were available in xubuntu for installing at least
<ali1234> compton is almost identical to xfwm's compositor, except with opengl support added in
<ali1234> they're both based on xcompmgr, and so is metacity
<ali1234> which is why i could easily implement present: keithp already patched metacity (and he wrote xcompmgr in the first place too)
<ochosi> any special build stuff?
<ochosi> (for the compton hybrid support)
<ali1234> no don't think so, you just need the right runtime options of which there are many
<ochosi> hmm ok
<ochosi> you wouldn't happen to have a config file?
<ali1234> never needed one
<ali1234> check compton --help
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> ty
<brainwash> wow, really feels faster
<ali1234> it has about 5 different ways of compositing, you should try them all
<ali1234> different ones work better on different cards
<brainwash> I like this hybrid one
<ali1234> hybrid gives the best experience for me, but it also uses the most CPU by far
<brainwash> already switching between workspaces for like a whole minute :D
<ochosi> gah, what's the libGL package name in ubuntu again?
<ali1234> "sudo apt-get build-dep compton"
<ochosi> libgl1-mesa-dev?
<ochosi> oh, i didnt realize it was in the 14.04 repos :)
<ali1234> apparently it is. probably an old version thugh
<brainwash> 2013-11-04 
<ali1234> doesn't appear to have it
<ochosi> ali1234: you should get the zoom-patch in compton too ;)
<ali1234> well the problem is how to tell it to zoom
<ochosi> i already miss that one
<ali1234> xfwm catches the keyboard shortcuts
<ali1234> we discussed adding a dbus interface so that xfwm can request the compositor to zoom in
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i forgot about that
<ochosi> humm, the hybrid backend still has quite a bit of tearing
<ochosi> with e.g. resizing windows
<ochosi> will try video-playback next
<ochosi> (didn't use any options apart from the backend xr_glx_hybrid)
<brainwash> it feels like I'm using a new laptop
<ali1234> there are a few options which might affect it
<ali1234> but i don't remember all of them
<ali1234> i think the stencil buffer was one
<brainwash> https://github.com/chjj/compton/wiki/perf-guide
<ali1234> yeah that pretty much covers it :)
<ochosi> seems like the fullscreen playback is a bit smoother with it
<ali1234> for me it moves the tear to very near the top of the screen
<ali1234> so it's less noticable
<brainwash> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceX18O9pvLs
<ali1234> there are better ways to test tearing
<ali1234> (and framerate) - ideally you need a 60fps video
<ochosi> very high cpu usage is what i get
<brainwash> you have to pay the price
<ochosi> yeah, but it's so high that even windows move less smoothly than with xfwm4
<brainwash> I usually don't move windows
<brainwash> but website scrolling is super smooth now too
<ochosi> it's worse for me :)
<ali1234> /usr/lib/xscreensaver/lcdscrub -no-hb -no-hw -no-vw -no-dw -no-db -no-w -no-b -spread 5 -fps -delay 16000
<ali1234> try that
<ali1234> it's in xscreensaver-data-extra
<ali1234> stuttering and tearing will be *very* obvious
 * ochosi installs
<ali1234> adjust delay to make it run as close to your refresh rate as possible
<ochosi> not sure i have the nerves to tweak compton so much that it works nicely
<brainwash> I don't care that much about minimal tearing, rendering just has to be quick
<ochosi> yeah, much better with compton
<ochosi> ali1234: ^
<ochosi> without any compositor i get crazy tearing there
<brainwash> it's so funny, I'm used to the slowness of firefox, but now it feels like I'm using chromium with a firefox skin
<ochosi> if only it wouldn't swallow my cpu, i guess i could use it
<brainwash> the difference is huge
<ali1234> you sure it's not just placebo effect?
<ali1234> these things can be very subjective
<ali1234> it's not really possible to say one is "better" than another in my experience
<brainwash> yes, maybe I'm a bit too hyped
<ali1234> unless one is perfect and the other isn't
<ali1234> and as of yet i haven't seen any perfect compositor
<ochosi> i guess part of my problem is that i'm using the external monitor
<ochosi> with the internal laptop screen it'd be faster, cause it has less resolution :)
<ali1234> (but i have seen fullscreen video playback when it's perfect)
<ali1234> external monitor will always tear without present
<ali1234> because monitors don't have exactly the same refresh rate. they're not all perfect 60Hz synced
<ali1234> but opengl vsync can only be synced to one display
<ochosi> it's not a dualhead setup though, laptop monitor is disabled
<Unit193> ochosi: No, I never did, saw that someone else had filed one 32 seconds before I checked the bug lists.
<knome> slickymaster, magic, my son, magic.. ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: link?
<elfy> as if by magic, the shokeeper appeared
<elfy> s/shopkeeper
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1297034
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1297034 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "The update brings click packages on the desktop where they are not needed" [High,In progress]
<Unit193> (Core dev complained about it too.)
<elfy> read something about that somewhere
<ochosi> Unit193: right, already inprogress, that'll get fixed till release
<knome> elfy... is there something you think needs further discussion on the QA cycle thread?
<elfy> don't think so 
<elfy> pretty sure that nothing has been said since I last read and answered stuff on that
<elfy> the spinoff I want libreoffice one is floundering I see
<knome> i'm not talking about that
<knome> :P
<knome> elfy, yeah, nothing has been said since you answered stuff, but i was thinking if you had something you wanted more comments on
<elfy> then you're going to have to be specific then - I've been breathing paint solvent all day 
<Unit193> ochosi: Not sure at all what you mean, but: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/12.10.2+14.04.20140324.is.12.10.2+14.04.20140320-0ubuntu1
<ochosi> god, they have to stop with those version numbers...
<elfy> knome: oic - I'm not sure, will look at it tomorrow and see if I can pick anything out
<knome> elfy, ok, thanks :)
<elfy> I'm not pursuing exploratory anymore though - had a chat with Nick 
<elfy> well - an e-mail chat :p
<knome> lol
<knome> and what's with that?
<elfy> as I sort of suspected - they went exploratory as they have autopilot ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes.
<elfy> and everything gets tested regardless
<elfy> knome: if I don't do anything else I will try and summarise that thread and the points I think we can move on
<elfy> ochosi: so that went quiet in -dekstop
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1297144
<ubottu> bug 1297144 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Invisible cursor after resume from suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297144
<ochosi> brainwash: you keep pinging me with bug-numbers, why is that?
<brainwash> because you are the one who could/should tell something about these bugs :)
<brainwash> it is possible that light-locker gets called twice in this case?
<brainwash> on suspend
<ochosi> weird bug
<ochosi> called twice?
<brainwash> 1x via dbus and 1x via xfce4-session
<brainwash> if both settings are enabled
<ochosi> ah, i wasn't aware
<ochosi> uncool
<brainwash> light-locker hides the cursor for the current screen
<brainwash> just a theory
<ochosi> hm, well the problem with the session lock setting is a problem...
<ochosi> is this confirmed behavior?
<ochosi> (i frankly ignored that setting like forever and never had it ticked)
<brainwash> no, I did not test it
<brainwash> just trying to find an explanation for the reported bug
<brainwash> or some hint
<ochosi> tbh i dunno what xfce4-session does on that setting
<brainwash> it calls xflock4
<brainwash> which calls light-locker-command
<ochosi> if it calls xflock then it's possible that light-locker gets called twice
<ochosi> meh, i hate that all these options and settings are spread all over the place
<ochosi> xfce4-session, xfce4-power-manager
<bluesabre0> yeah, its a mess
<ochosi> o hai bluesabre0 
<bluesabre0> good news though, I think I have solved the parole dvd issues
<bluesabre0> testing some stuff now
<ochosi> weeee
<ochosi> very nice
<ochosi> (not that i ever play dvds ;))
<bluesabre0> and cooking, so I am kind-of around
<ochosi> meh, i got hit by the mkv "can't turn subtitles off" bug today
<ochosi> kinda annoying
<bluesabre0> indeed
<bluesabre0> is there anything else I should be focusing more energy on (besides parole)?
<ochosi> good good question
<ochosi> bluesabre0: does the lock on suspend thing work for you already?
<ochosi> and did you read brainwash's comment above about the setting in xfce4-session?
<ochosi> (i'm wondering whether we should patch it out for 14.04 in the sense that we set the checkbox to hide itself)
<bluesabre0> ochosi: so here's the thing
<ochosi> could be that you were hit exactly by that
<bluesabre0> lock-on-suspend on/off does work
<bluesabre0> but xfce4-power-manager locks your screen (xflock) when laptop lid is closed
<ochosi> meh
<bluesabre0> (its an optional item)
<ochosi> so many options everywhere...
<bluesabre0> but if I suspend from the power dialog, it works as expected
<bluesabre0> btw, late-locking is fantastic
<ochosi> lock on lid-close is optional in the powerman?
<bluesabre0> yeah
<slickymaster> knome: in the 'Key Applications' item of http://xubuntu.org/tour/, Abiword is mentioned and Gnumeric doesn't
<ochosi> oh yeah, optional
<ochosi> found it
<ochosi> what a cluttered dialog :)
<knome> slickymaster, we probably want to rewrite the tour page completely
<slickymaster> within the same structure
<slickymaster> ?
<bluesabre0> oh yeah, saw another xubuntu install at work today :]
<knome> slickymaster, or any
<knome> slickymaster, remember we can (and should) use the highlighted sections
<ochosi> bluesabre0: would be nice to resolve the mess with the three "lock on suspend" options somehow. we could theoretically keep at least two of them in sync (e.g. powerman and light-locker-settings)
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> liked the about page
<ochosi> bluesabre0: there's already a patch that does that for the screensaver timeouts, theoretically we could incorporate both
<bluesabre0> right
<bluesabre0> we might consider doing that in the next few days
<ochosi> so at least when you open light-locker-settings and powerman, they look the same
<ochosi> and then hide the checkbox in xfce4-session-settings
<ochosi> and then we'd be "good"
<bluesabre0> which checkbox?
<brainwash> hiding by default is a bad idea
<ochosi> the lock on suspend checkbox
<bluesabre0> agreed with brainwash
<bluesabre0> works for xubuntu, nowhere else
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-26-004302.php
<ochosi> dunno, it's always a duplication of xfce4-powerman
<ochosi> even in u-studio
<ochosi> afaik they also use both
<ochosi> we could also patch powerman to use the xfce4-session key to save its setting
<ochosi> then those two would be in sync always
<ochosi> would "look messy" for those that use xfce4-powerman without xfce4-session, but would still work
<brainwash> bug 1101982
<ubottu> bug 1101982 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "inconsistent settings for lock screen between xfce4-session and xfce4-power-manager" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1101982
<bluesabre0> oh lovely
<ochosi> you mean because i wasn't the first to have that messy idea? :)
<ochosi> or because the bug was known for so long?
<ochosi> guess we can go ahead and add light-locker-settings as soon as 1.2 is uploaded
<brainwash> now we can add light-locker to the affects list :)
<ochosi> not yet
<ochosi> it hasn't been uploaded yet
<ochosi> and it unconditionally locks on suspend atm
<ochosi> well yeah, you can add it now if you want
<ochosi> but there is no visual indicator of the inconsistency atm in it
<brainwash> invisible mouse cursor? :P
<brainwash> or do you mean a checkbox in the settings dialog?
<brainwash> my test system does not support suspend/hibernate, so I'll just call ll-command twice and see what happens
<ochosi> yup, either way, we can ask the tester to check his settings 
<brainwash> yes, but first I want to do see if I can verify my theory and then ask the right questions :D
<ochosi> sure
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-26
<Jeff_Mitchell_Xu> I'm running Xubuntu beta 2, and I joined launchpad. It says: "no open bugs". What am I meant to do?
<brainwash> jeff_xubuntu: hey, where exactly does it say "no open bugs"?
<jeff_xubuntu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers
<jeff_xubuntu> Then click the "bugs" tab. Don't tell me I'm in the wrong place lol I'm such a noob even though I've used linux for six years.
<brainwash> this team does not seem to be subscribed to any reports
<brainwash> the xubuntu bugs team on the other hand is
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<knome> jeff_xubuntu, what are you looking for?
<brainwash> but this list of bugs isn't that helpful right now
<brainwash> please take a look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
<jeff_xubuntu> thanks!
<knome> or a list of bugs reported against the beta2 in the ISO tracker
<knome> jeff_xubuntu, are you looking at ISO testing, or package testing, or something different?
<jeff_xubuntu> ISO testing, I'm running Xubuntu beta 2 right now
<knome> ok,
<knome> so the ISO testing basically means you would need to *install* a system
<knome> the reports are sent to this tracker: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/313/builds
<knome> that's the URL for beta 2 builds
<jeff_xubuntu> I think I should refer to the Ubuntu testing documentation. I looked through the Xubuntu website and didn't find anything, then I though, oh right, all the documentation is on the Ubuntu website, not Xubuntu website.
<jeff_xubuntu> *thought
<knome> let me see...
<knome> right... the website can be a bit ambiguous
<jeff_xubuntu> ah I see http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases
<knome> yes.. that's the packages tracker
<jeff_xubuntu> Ristretto has heaps of bugs I'll look at that. I think I'll cook some food first... back later
<knome> ok, bon appetit
<brainwash> knome: can you unhide https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292025 please?
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1292025 not found
<brainwash> ristretto segfault
<knome> done
<brainwash> thanks
<bluesabre0> anybody experiencing the parole dvd-playback issues, please try out this commit
<bluesabre0> http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/commit/?id=62f3b404a41bdce368fd3777328c966f87b860f4
<bluesabre0> Unit193: still have two dvd drives?
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Never did.
<bluesabre0> oh, I thought you had filed some bug regarding that
<bluesabre0> nvm then :)
<Unit193> No, I did file the bug though.
<Unit193> lp 1098323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1098323 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole failes to play DVD" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1098323
<bluesabre0> tricksy ukikies
<bluesabre0> this commit may fix that too
<bluesabre0> at least partially
<Unit193> I no longer even have /dev/dvd2, just /dev/cdrom which is a symlink to /dev/sr0, which is a DVD drive.
<bluesabre0> I'll do some testing later with an external drive, but I'm happy to have one thing seemingly resolved
<Unit193> Soo, that commit looks a tad hacky, is it actully?
<bluesabre0> sort of
<bluesabre0> :)
<bluesabre0> before, it was using "dvd:/"
<bluesabre0> which auto-detects the device based on the URI
<bluesabre0> now it uses "dvd:///dev/sr0" or whatever the unix device is
<bluesabre0> tested several variations with parole and vlc to figure out what is accepted
<bluesabre0> the previous thing only worked with /dev/dvd0 or something along those lines
<bluesabre0> which caused other issues when that path went away
<bluesabre0> (and still is an issue for totem, last I checked)
<elfy> is whiskermenu supposed to stay alphabetical - adding apps - they just get put to the end of  the list they end up in 
<bluesabre0> elfy: for it to not be alphabetical, enable the setting "Show menu hierarchy" in the whisker settigs
<elfy> aah cool 
<ochosi> bluesabre0: what did you think about making xfce4-powerman aware of the session setting?
<ochosi> just to keep those two in sync
<ochosi> either let them use the same xfconf-key
<ochosi> (the one of session, i suppose)
<ochosi> or just patch xfce4-powerman to check that setting and stay in sync
<ochosi> then obviously light-locker-settings would also need a patch to stay in sync
<ochosi> (the lid-lock behavior is obviously another level of complexity, but the user will have to handle that)
<bluesabre0> ochosi: yeah, that sounds ideal
<ochosi> it shouldn't be too hard to code that, just means adding a check for another xfconf key
<ochosi> although i dunno what should happen if the key in -session doesn't exist yet (should it be created then? or do we have to check whether xfce4-session is in use/installed?)
<CyborgCygnus> bluesabre0, elfy, sweet I was wondering why I had to drag & drop the apps in the order I wanted, rather than have like an alphabetical order.
<bluesabre0> yeah, there's a bit of implementation we'll need to consider
<bluesabre0> CyborgCygnus, glad I could help :)
<CyborgCygnus> bluesabre0, except nothing really happens when I turn it on or off, nothing re orders it self. I'll just remember for when the stable release comes out as I suspect it will run better than this install I have going.
<bluesabre0> yeah, there might be some old configs, or it might need to be refreshed or something
<bluesabre0> I'll check into that
<CyborgCygnus> bluesabre0, I've been updating almost daily from the alpha, I noticed the other day when I chucked a daily image on a usb & ran it live that it had a noticeable amount of differences in it, stuff ran better.
<bluesabre0> ah
<bluesabre0> if you're updating and want to check some new things without changing your current settings, you can probably log into the guest session to see what's what
<CyborgCygnus> I stuffed my install up anyway, I had it on the first partition of a drive, deleted two other o/s's off using gparted & updated the grub, now it boots real sluggish & comes up with errors, I just ignore it cause I know I'll never be able to fix it. I just play with this as it is & am waiting for stable release.
<CyborgCygnus> bluesabre0, ah okay, good idea. I have no idea how to refresh configs etc, someone told me before how to do it for the saved startup sessions but I can't remember things when I only use them once.
<starrats> Help, was just on launchpad.net to report a bug, brainwash recommended me to do this but I cannot find on that site where to report a bug.
<slickymasterWork> starrats: against what package do you want to fil the bug?
<knome> lderan, tell me if you need help/feedback or anything regarding bots, and i can then join #ubuntu-bots if needed
<starrats> the bug I want to report is that mu cursor/pointer freezes up at the logon/password screen at start-up.  I have reported this same bug numerous times and have trid things that brainwash has suggested all have failed.
<starrats> trid - tried
<knome> rather than file it numerous times, please expand the original bug report...
<CyborgCygnus> starrats, Install a daily image over your current?
<CyborgCygnus> starrats, I have problems with my Alpha 14.04 that I've updated to the daily, I worked out a fresh image fixes that.
<starrats> daily image?  expand the bug report?  first one I don't understand and the second one I have expanded the original report 
<elfy> reinstall with a new daily 
<knome> starrats, first one refers to the latest daily image, or in this case, the beta2 image; new images are built every day except during milestones
<knome> starrats, latter: good (that's not you said though)
<elfy> morning knome 
<slickymasterWork> morning knome 
<knome> everything in order in QA and docs?
<starrats> knome I have told everything to brainwash after I filed a ubuntu-bug report on term and that's when he told me to try a couple of things, that did not work and then he suggested for me to go to #ubuntu+1 channel and tell them my problems, got very little help there, told that to brainwash and he told me to report the bug on launchpad.  I tied to this morning and I could not find the where to report
<starrats> this bug.
<knome> starrats, right, then wait patiently
<knome> starrats, there's not much else we have to give you except one of our bug triagers helping you
<knome> "we have" meaning, there isn't much more things we can do to help you
<knome> if others are unable to reproduce the issue, it's even harder to get anything fixed
<starrats> I have been very patient with everyone, I thought I had this freezing thing defeated per se because i had days with out this problem and now the last three days it has reared it's ugly little head again.
<knome> so what is the original bug number?
<starrats> I have a toshiba laptop running a dual partition with windows 7 and xubuntu 14.04 
<starrats> will try to find the orig. bug report.
<starrats> I could not locate original bug report# but here's the Question# 245333 sent to me by Manfred Hampl concerning this problem which was on 3/12/2014
<elfy> starrats: just go to your LP page - then click bugs - then you'll see bugs you've done something to
<elfy> in the top right there are options to specify - pick reported 
<starrats> okay
<starrats> Could not locate my report because I believe it was an additional comment on the question I said above, but there was a sdimilar one on 12.04 version about the same issue I'm having now.
<elfy> no idea then 
<elfy> and have you tried using a different mouse? 
<elfy> tbh - I would just reinstall with a new daily and be done with it
<starrats> I did try to file a ubuntu-bug report from term but I did not have output of problem I just typed ubuntu-but and clicked on theXorg box and went from there.
<starrats> I will do the same if necessary 
<elfy> and as people have said if they can't replicate it - or it is in fact something to do with your hardware it will just sit there
<starrats> well I don't know how to change my hardware 
<starrats> so I just take it that this is irrepairable?
<starrats> left in the dark on it
<elfy> you don't know how to change a mouse? or is it a laptop?
<starrats> a laptop 
<elfy> so I would download a new image and reinstall then 
<starrats> beginning of the month will buy a usb mouse, the one I have doesn't work, tried numerous times
<starrats> a new image = a new dvd of Trusty Tahr?
<elfy> yep
<starrats> okay one question I have on this, are all the updates/upgrades/dist-upgrades be on this new download of the image or would i have to do all that i have done all over again?
<elfy> no - you wouldn't be downloading all the updates again 
<starrats> or should I say will the new image have that from all the work you folks have done to truty tahr
<elfy> it will be as up to date as it can be
<starrats> okay I will download and burn a new image of trusty tahr
<starrats> and re-install
<starrats> ah ok
<elfy> back up data if you have any
<starrats> alright got to do other things 
<starrats> bbl
<elfy> cya
<starrats> good morning everyone
<elfy> good afternoon starrats 
<starrats> elfy did you see what I did about my cursor on offtopic channel?
<elfy> I did 
<starrats> and good morning to you again
<elfy> :)
<starrats> okay got my fingers crossed that this will work all the time but 2 times with a windows update between I feel confident
<elfy> it couldn't have been reinstalling xubuntu-desktop unless something else got reinstalled at the same time though 
<starrats> well the output from term if I can remember right was words to the effect that xubuntu desktop 2.179 installed
<elfy> mmm 
<starrats> I could run the command again, don't know if it would do anything  or ?
<elfy> just wait and see :)
<starrats> will do
<starrats> :)
<starrats> elfy I was going to download.burn a new image as we chatted about earlier but after all the windows & updates were done and I had a chance to restart before putting my pw for windows, itook a chance and restarted and went to the xubuntu line and on the frozen cursor was free the second time so right now I'm back here and feelinng a little better
<elfy> oh hang on 
<elfy> do you get this issue at the grub screen? 
<elfy> http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_new_2/grub2-dual-boot-in-grub2.png
<knome> elfy, any tests you'd like me to run?
<elfy> if you could do some 64bit that would be awesome - and possibly a cli upgrade or two? 
<knome> meh, :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> i mean, i can do upgrades, but they are clean upgrades then
<elfy> yea I know 
<knome> i can at least take some of the 64-bit
<elfy> I'm in the same position
<knome> who wouldn't...
<knome> i can take at least any two of the 64bit ones
<elfy> I'll be able to do some hardware 64bit later - what I won't be doing there is the entire disk 
<knome> plus the post-install one
<knome> okay, i'll do that at least then
<knome> i can also do auto-resize
<elfy> how about entire and that one :p
<knome> if you prefer manual partitioning
<knome> yep, that works for me
<knome> and the post-install
<elfy> well - I odn't want to fubar what's on the machine 
<knome> yeah i understand
<elfy> we got 17 done with yesterdays image
<knome> cool
<knome> let's see how much i need to zsync
<elfy> I did do a couple of vm upgrades but what we really need is real ones - not so easy to get people to do :)
<knome> 32%
<elfy> you've got 32% or you need 32% :)
<knome> need
<knome> but any is ok
<elfy> yep 
<knome> downloading at 1050 kB/s
<knome> hmm
<knome> bug 1231520
<ubottu> bug 1231520 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Desktop image ignores installation language setting for locale" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231520
<knome> might be related to your keyboard bug
<elfy> could be 
<elfy> not sure about labelling my issue as ubiquity - it will never get looked at then :)
<knome> heh :)
<knome> depends, if you know who to ask...
<elfy> well I don't know anyone, I'm deeply cynical about bugs if they don't affect ubuntu
<knome> mhm
<knome> dinner, bbiab
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: even
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: I'd not actually fail those for those bugs - in fact I didn't :p
<slickymasterWork> elfy: are you referring to the debian wallpaper and the xfce4 one?
<elfy> yea
<slickymasterWork> I can change the result to 'Passed', still keeping the bugs if you think it's preferable 
<elfy> that's what I did 
<elfy> but if you want to fail them be my guest :)
<slickymasterWork> and that's what I'm about to do ;)
<elfy> lol
<slickymasterWork> no, I do see the logic in your reasoning
<slickymasterWork> done
<ochosi> brainwash: ping
<ochosi> brainwash: could you please give this a test-run? fixes the xfdesktop-style-issue for me: https://github.com/EricKoegel/xfdesktop/commit/31a6f3520565bd59701c78e5e030e113eea7f406
<knome> elfy, ran and reported those two testcases and noticed i can't do much about the post-installation one
<elfy> yep - thanks :)
<elfy> they're respinning I think - so we'll get another blank sheet
<elfy> I'd done the post install one 
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll test it, the patch seems to revert the previous commit
<brainwash> there is a small difference, but I'm pretty sure that it will work :)
<brainwash> bug 1297170
<ubottu> bug 1297170 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper/install uses same" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297170
<brainwash> low priority? :D
<brainwash> who is this guy? he seems to change the priority of many xfce/xubuntu related reports
<knome> apparently somebody who works for the one hundred papercuts project
<knome> at least he is argumenting the reason why he set a specific priority
<brainwash> true
<brainwash> so I've built abiword with the backported patches for the stable branch + my simply patch to fix the icon in the about dialog
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<brainwash> tested and it works
<brainwash> woops, "my simple patch"
<brainwash> Noskcaj: any news regarding an possible abiword bug fix release
<elfy> brainwash: talking of bugs - can you not mark testcase ones as dupes :)
<brainwash> elfy: that one was marked as invalid first
<elfy> I know - I marked it :) 
<elfy> just putting my marker down :)
<brainwash> it's technically a dupe then.. or not?
<elfy> not really - if something is wrong with a testcase - 9 times out of 10 there is
<brainwash> but marked as invalid
<elfy> sigh 
<elfy> that's beside the point - please don't mark our testcase bugs
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> that papercut guy does that a lot then gets involved in arguing stuff
<elfy> did the same when asked not to spam qa mailing lists with bunches of emoti's or something 
<elfy> new 64bit image is 14% different from this morning it seems
<Unit193> brainwash: Simple, he uses unity/ubuntu, Xfce/Xubuntu is low priority when it comes to that. :P
<Unit193> elfy: I presume anytime now is good for upgrades, alrighty.
<elfy> just been respun
<Unit193> Upgrades don't get respun. ;)
<elfy> cli ones don't 
<elfy> I'm too tired for semantic arguments
<brainwash> Unit193: maybe, sometimes it seems like he doesn't know what's going on in the Xubuntu/Xfce universe
<brainwash> and the papercuts project guys don't seem to help us that much, or even at all
<elfy> it's about marking things if you ask me 
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I've heard nothing more
<brainwash> Noskcaj: should we just pick the 2 patches and release an upgrade?
<jhenke> hi
<Noskcaj> hey jhenke 
<pleia2> kitty!
<Unit193> Hmm?
<Unit193> pleia2: Oh, oh, oh!  You'd approve of my shirt!
<pleia2> doing iso testing, slideshow
<Unit193> http://www.amazon.com/T-Shirt-Firefly-Curse-Sudden-Betrayal/dp/B00EYXAQJE <-- like that!
<Unit193> Ahh.
<brainwash> Noskcaj: abiword -> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Are you able to package to yourself or do you want me to?
<Noskcaj> *it
<brainwash> I've just built it to test it (let it test)
<Noskcaj> ok
<brainwash> I doubt that I know how to properly do it (patch names, changelog entries,..)
<Noskcaj> also, it could be worthwhile just packaging upstream git
<brainwash> yes, indeed
<brainwash> it's actually svn with a read-only git mirror
<Noskcaj> ok
<brainwash> the debian package installs the abiword.png into the /usr/share/pixmaps folder
<brainwash> fedora and arch don't do that
<brainwash> the install it into the according icon folder
<brainwash> -> usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/abiword.png
<brainwash> so the icon is not displayed in abiword's about dialog on debian/ubuntu system
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Probably worth fixing, maybe email the debian maintainer about it
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Know if the python-parsedatetime problem is fixed, or is going to be fixed?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I've not heard anything more
<Noskcaj> You could always package the new version for it and pyicu
<Noskcaj> I would, but i've got a heap of gnome stuff and homework (to ignore)
<Unit193> apt-mark hold python-parsedatetime  is easier.  Sure, was just asking if you knew more.
<Noskcaj> Is anyone able to test the new alacarte release for me?
<Unit193> We have menulibre now.
<Noskcaj> i know
<jhenke> good night guys
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-27
<RFleming> Greetings!
<Unit193> Howdy.
<RFleming> I've been using 14.04 b1 for a while now
<RFleming> awesome stuff btw
<RFleming> this past week it's gone wonky
<Unit193> Oh?
<RFleming> Applications Menu icon changes
<RFleming> icon themes don't apply on session start
<RFleming> wallpapers have disappeared
<RFleming> I logged in and had the ubuntu logo instead of the new xfce4 icon
<RFleming> I change my icon settings and its fine
<RFleming> the other day it was the old school xfce icon
<RFleming> it's little niggly things that I have no clue how to report :)
<Unit193> Sounds like the Xfce session, plus a weird artwork update and this is a fresh install I presume
<Unit193> ?
<RFleming> not fresh fresh... end of Feb
<RFleming> I only have the old xfce wallpaper available now... pale blue with black X and mouse
<RFleming> was looking in 'xfce', had to manually point back to /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops
<Unit193> RFleming: dkpg -L xubuntu-wallpapers
<RFleming> You wish for the output?
<Unit193> Shouldn't need it, should be more or less full.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/RgilLzwXD1M69TGZ9272
<RFleming> shows usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-{saucy, quantal, raring}.png plus the docs and default xubuntu-wallpaper.png
<RFleming> yeah, that's identical
<RFleming> I even went so far as to reinstall artwork, wallpaper and a couple of other cosmetic packages
<RFleming> I renamed my ~/.config/xfce4 folder as well and let xfce create a new one.
<RFleming> right now the text for my icons has a light box with rounded borders and dark text.   The moment I go into settings and change the style to Greybird (which is already selected) they change back.  The next time I log in, it's back to as I described
<RFleming> kinda like Adwaita is applied, but it shows Greybird
<RFleming> panel colours all match Greybird
<Unit193> RFleming: Well part of that is a known bug, and you are logging into the Xubuntu session, right?
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1270261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1270261 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop items have background" [Medium,Triaged]
<RFleming> No
<RFleming> I don't use sessions
<Unit193> Ah, so it is the Xfce one then.
<RFleming> sorry, was in #ubuntu helping out
<RFleming> call me crazy, but I like clean slates on log on :)
<Unit193> No, this is the lightdm session, top right button.
<Unit193> How you decide if you want Xfce, Xubuntu, Openbox, or whatever else is installed.
<RFleming> ahh
<RFleming> I don't change it
<RFleming> last time I checked it was xubuntu
<RFleming> Unit193, alright, I'm gonna log out and verify I'm indeed using the xubuntu session
<RFleming> Unit193, yeah, am using the Xubuntu session
<RFleming> So Unit193, eventually these little niggles should sort themselves out?
<RFleming> I'm not caring much... it's why beta is beta, just curious :)
<Unit193> RFleming: I'm not seeing them. >_>
<RFleming> I'll see later in April with the RC comes out
<RFleming> is the 17th still the go day?
<Unit193> Still is.
<RFleming> ooh
<RFleming> looks like it got pushed
<RFleming> or not
<RFleming> wiki shows 24th as 14.04 final release
<RFleming> but the actual release sched says 17
<RFleming> I'll keep my mouth shut now :)
<Unit193> What wiki?
<RFleming> other project schedules
<RFleming> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OtherProjectSchedules
<Unit193> Ah, just making sure it's not the Xubuntu wiki.
<RFleming> my bad
<RFleming> I should read twice before speaking
<RFleming> I'm wondering if my constant use of dist-upgrade is one of the reasons my appearance has gone a little messy
<Unit193> I only ever use that.
<RFleming> was just a thought :)
<RFleming> how would I go about re-initializing the Xubuntu session?
<Unit193> Generally, nuke ~/.config/xfce4/ or ~/.config/
<RFleming> I could try nuking the entire .config folder
<RFleming> I just nuked ~/.config/xfce4
<RFleming> ... well just rename it, just in case :)
<Unit193> Try to make sure and do it when you aren't logged in to the X session.
<Unit193> (TTY)
<RFleming> I usually do.
<RFleming> well, lemme give it a shot
<RFleming> Unit193, http://imagebin.org/302029
<RFleming> no go
<RFleming> fresh .config
<RFleming> I logged out, stopped lightdm, moved ~/.config, restarted lightdm and logged in
<Unit193> Did you Already change back to applicationsmenu from whisker?
<RFleming> yeah, I got rid of whisker
<RFleming> but whisker is back here
<Unit193> Ah, ok, didn't look the same.
<RFleming> this screencap doesn't show whisker, but that's the default menu
<RFleming> Once I click off greybird and reclick it, icon text then looks like this: http://imagebin.org/302030
<Unit193> Yeah, that's the aforementioned bug.
<RFleming> alright, I can live with that then
<RFleming> That bug may affect other parts as well.
<RFleming> examples.  The Whisker Menu properties show the icon you see in those screencaps
<RFleming> but sometimes on log on, the actual icon will be the old X Mouse, or the orange ubuntu logo
<RFleming> clicking on the icon in whisker menu properties, and then OK, the panel will then show the right icon
<RFleming> and I have no clue why the xfce4 is no longer looking in /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops for wallpaper any longer
<RFleming> those three cosmetic things have been my ONLY issues with 14.04
<RFleming> (it looks for wallpapers in /usr/share/backgrounds/xfce)
<RFleming> Unit193, curious question.  If I wanted to file a bug, what version would I say I'm running?  I installed beta1, but ran dist-upgrade as of 10 minutes ago
<Unit193> Xubuntu 14.04, if it's not a test against a daily ISO saying that it's up to date is what matters.
<Unit193> The system should report when you installed it.
<RFleming> Is there a how-to on using launchpad? :)
<Unit193> Uhhh...
<Unit193> !bugs | :D
<ubottu> :D: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<elfy> knome: I'm cool with marking the images ready - ~20 for each arch done
<elfy> also will the blog page be the url it is now - though it will need finishing off
<elfy> if so I'll tell infinity, then we can forget about it 
<elfy> that is http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-14-04-final-beta/
<elfy> ochosi: in -release re the keyboard issue - "<infinity> We'll definitely need to make sure someone prioritized that one post-beta."
<elfy> bug now assigned to ubuntu desktop team
<starrats> good morning everyone!  My frozen cursor problem might have been repaired by this command I found on an ubuntu page yesterday.  So Just in case someone else comes to you for assistance with this problem, here is the command I used yesterday and have had 3 good restarts and this morning Weather for Kent, OH | Temperature: 21Â°F / -6Â°C (Wind Chill: 16Â°F / -9Â°C); Humidity: 67%; Pressure: 30.20in /
<starrats> 102.3kPa;        â
<starrats>                       | Conditions: Scattered clouds; Wind: Ese, 4mph / 6kph; Updated: 19 mins, 57 secs ago | Forecast for Thursday: Chance of rain; High of     â
<starrats>                       | 48Â°F / 9Â°C; Low of 45Â°F / 7Â°C | Forecast for Friday: Rain showers; High of 48Â°F / 9Â°C; Low of 30Â°F / -1Â°C |when i turned on the comp 
<starrats> sorry that was not to happen
<starrats> the command is this 'sudo apt-get install --reinstall xubuntu-desktop
<starrats> the weather crap should not have happened, 
<CyborgCygnus> Oh my god, swearing, like disgusting.
<starrats> so very sorry folks
<CyborgCygnus> ;)
<CyborgCygnus> Just pulling your leg
<ochosi> elfy: that sounds like progress. (let's hope it is)
<elfy> ochosi: I hope so :)
<starrats> I hope so too!  :)
<brainwash> what? :)
<ochosi> brainwash: when i asked you about the xfdesktop patch yesterday the idea was that you could test it, so yeah, it's ready for testing
<CyborgCygnus> ochosi, What does that patch fix?
<brainwash> ochosi: but it basically reverts the previous commit
<brainwash> so I am curious
<brainwash> is there more to expect
<ochosi> not really
<ochosi> it reloads the iconview instead of destroying it
<ochosi> CyborgCygnus: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1270261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1270261 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop items have background" [Medium,Triaged]
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, you should also add a comment to the upstream report then
<brainwash> I did not start my test system yet to verify that it works like expected
<brainwash> ochosi: I remember that you've asked about the default DPI value like 1 month ago
<brainwash> and now got this report here bug 1297893
<ubottu> bug 1297893 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Giant text and (some) giant icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297893
<brainwash> it appears to me that the user "messed up", the default is to override the DPI value (96 DPI), or?
<elfy> knome: marked our images as ready now
<AussieDownUnder> Just checking out the install screen on the xubuntu daily. Good work, so polished that I can see my reflection.
<AussieDownUnder> Nice it even auto picks an Australia server to download from rather then default ubuntu one.
<brainwash> nice, we got 3 patches for xfdesktop
<brainwash> which means that 3 more bug reports can be closed soon
<elfy> always good
<brainwash> do we want to fix this? bug 1271861
<ubottu> bug 1271861 in thunar (Ubuntu) ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271861
<brainwash> to improve the overall experience
<brainwash> elfy: any ibus news?
<elfy> only that canonical desktop team are involved in it now
<elfy> and someone is looking 
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> ali1234: hey, can you check if xfdesktop really leaks memory?
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10759
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10759 in General "xfdesktop leaking memory on wallpaper change (ubuntu 14.04 with xfce)" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure what happens there with the DPI. that should work ootb
<ochosi> and wrt xfdesktop patch, i think that eric plans to push that if it works for >1 testers
<brainwash> already pushed.. like 45min ago
<brainwash> :D
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> good good
<ochosi> one thing less to worry about then
<brainwash> now we need to package this stuff
<brainwash> less glitches to complain about :)
<ochosi> yeah, that is not my department :)
<ochosi> (packaging i mean)
<ochosi> bbl
<ali1234> brainwash: i tried but i could only reproduce it once
<ali1234> i could not get a proper valgrind dump because whatever it leaks it de-allocates immediately on exit
<ali1234> i have seen this kind of behaviour before
<ali1234> anyway i needed to get xfdesktop compiled with debug symbols, and when i built it from git i could not reproduce
<ali1234> i used a set of scripts tat change the background every 3 seconds
<ali1234> i managed to make it leak about 3.5GB
<ali1234> but only with the distro package. git version should be identical but it does not leak
<ochosi> maybe it's the accountsservice patch
<ali1234> ah-ha
<ali1234> i bet that's what it is :)
<ochosi> we've been carrying that for a while, so far nobody complained
<ali1234> i always forget distro-patches
<ochosi> i have to mention that i didn't write it, just update it for 4.11
<ali1234> well most people don't change wallpaper every 3 seconds
<ochosi> yeah
<ali1234> i'll look at that
<ochosi> ty
<ali1234> const gchar *user_name never gets unref'd/freed
<brainwash> awesome
<ali1234> that's only two bytes per change though
<ali1234> (in my case)
<ali1234> bet there's more
<brainwash> only tested the git version, I'll check my daily ppa one now
<brainwash> which includes the debian/ubuntu patches
<ali1234> documentation does not specify whether it is supposed to be freed or not
<ali1234> set_accountsservice_user_bg(xfce_backdrop_get_image_filename(backdrop));
<ali1234> i wonder if the return from that xfce_ func should be freed...
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> wwell i guess i aply this patch, build, and run valgrind again
<ali1234> okay, test is running
<ali1234> yep, it's rising
<ali1234> we should really fix more memory leaks
<ali1234> i'm tired of reading blogs saying xfce uses as much memory as gnome
<brainwash> Xubuntu is evil, it eats your memory
<ali1234> it does though
<knome> elfy, thanks for taking care; i probably should have mentioned i was going to be away the whole day
<elfy> knome: welcome - they just need fiddling with for links is all I think
<knome> they? :)
<elfy> it 
<elfy> wiki should be ok 
<starrats> I have a question.  Currently 14.04 is at the kernel 3.13.0.19 Generic, when will the next upgrade to the kernel?
<elfy> no idea - I don't follow that 
<starrats> ah okay
<starrats> would anyone?
<elfy> I expect so - but as I don't follow it - I don't know that either :)
<elfy> though the kernel team meets in -meeting regularly and the logs get posted
<slickymaster> starrats: take a ook at this: http://voices.canonical.com/kernelte...march-25-2014/
<knome> that's not a full url
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 27 19:03:26 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slickymaster> yeah, starrats http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2014/03/25/kernel-team-meeting-minutes-march-25-2014/
<knome> who's here for the meeting, and would somebody other than me willing to chair?
<elfy> I'm here - but in and out a bit 
<slickymaster> o/ just for the meeting
<elfy> and I can't drive the bot either
<knome> anybody else here for the meeting, or should we skip to next week?
<knome> we don't seem to have any pushing issues, and as b2 is out today, not much we can do about that either
<elfy> I'd guess people look at the calendar to see if there is one - it's missing for today
<slickymaster> apparently just us three :P
<knome> right...
<knome> !team | meeting time
<ubottu> meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<pleia2> o/
<knome> hey pleia2
<slickymaster> elfy: blame Unit193 for that
<elfy> rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<elfy> oops
<slickymaster> he's the one who usually adds it to the calendar
<elfy> apparently I could - but I don't know where to so ... 
<knome> "what do you mean it's not on the calendar"
<knome> :P
 * elfy has screenshot 
<elfy> for Justin :p
<knome> :P
<knome> so... do we have something to discuss?
<elfy> I cna bring you up to date on ibus
<elfy> and ask a question
<slickymaster> the tour page, knome ?
<elfy> and bitterly complain about something :p
<knome> hmmh,
<knome> let's do this first
<knome> #topic Team updates
<elfy> #info elfy images got tested ~50 times
<knome> elfy, you happy with that?
<elfy> #info elfy no upgrade testing done
<knome> oh boo
<elfy> I was indeed happy with that - though it'd have been nice to have more done by -team
<knome> elfy, let's try to concentrate on that with the dailies before RC
<pleia2> I am sure I had updates
<knome> me too, but i've forgot most
<knome> #done knome did things that are marked as "done" in the blueprints
<knome> #done knome updated the website content + some page looks
<elfy> #info elfy ibus keyboard issue this has been picked up by someone from Canoncial Desktop Team
<elfy> which is good 
<pleia2> #done pleia2 completed website-related updates on /Xubuntu/Processes
<knome> #done knome and pleia2 worked to get the G+ group owner issue resolved
<knome> #done knome and ochosi worked on the wallpaper during the last two weeks, producing many blue variants
<pleia2> #done knome and pleia2 updated system requirements and added a new page at http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/requirements/
<starrats> okay thanks
<elfy> #action xubuntu-qa Push upgrade testing, slow down on daily testing
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-qa Push upgrade testing, slow down on daily testing
<knome> elfy, except daily upgrade testing? ;)
<knome> #nick xubuntu-qa
<elfy> it'll make sense when I post to the list ;)
<knome> #info many bugs were looked at and some have patches queued
<elfy> question - what are we doing for RC - anything specific? or will it just be a 'day' 
<knome> #info if there is any bug at http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html you are working on, but is not assigned to you, please do that ASAP
<elfy> there won't be a milestone from what I can see
<knome> elfy, obviously, i expect us to have "all" of the bugfixes and last features uploaded
<knome> so some "final" testing
<elfy> ok 
<knome> to make sure everything is in place
<knome> probably some exploratory testing
<knome> and thinking outside the box
<knome> making sure we don't have anything weird
<elfy> qa blueprint at 100% then :)
<slickymaster> kudos on that elfy 
<knome> should be anything at 100% at RC...
<knome> except maybe marketing
<knome> which doesn't really have release-critical stuff
<elfy> and possibly bugs
<knome> well i'd hope it's at 100%
<knome> it won't be
<knome> but that's the goal...
<elfy> :)
<knome> if it's not, make sure we document those issues clearly for the release notes
<knome> (those we think are worth mentioning)
<elfy> yep - that makes sense
<knome> #topic Other business
<knome> so anything else
<elfy> not from me
<knome> elfy, want to do the update on ibus?
<elfy> I did ... 
<knome> (i read the backlogs before i started the meeting, so i know where we're at)
<knome> yep
<knome> i noticed, was thinking if you wanted something more ;)
<knome> so...
<elfy> nope - just wanted to mention that it was assigned now 
<knome> elfy, did you know what the IRC nick for the person who should know what's up is?
<knome> or are they on IRC?
<elfy> ibus? 
<knome> yes
<knome> i noticed somebody specified a name
<elfy> happyaron I believe
<knome> okay
<elfy> yep - that's the guy
<knome> will you be in touch with him?
<elfy> well - I will be in the channel when I can be - I'll try and at least let him know who I am 
<elfy> so he can ping me if necessary
<knome> yeah, that would be good
<elfy> #action Elfy contact happyaron at least prior to meeting 3/4 
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy contact happyaron at least prior to meeting 3/4
<knome> great
<knome> and great for expecting the next meeting date ;)
<knome> anything else?
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> nope
<knome> pleia2, slickymaster ?
<slickymaster> nothing from me
<knome> slickymaster, everything ok with slideshow translations now?
<slickymaster> with pt_PT yes
<knome> heh, well i meant generally
<slickymaster> do we have any kind of feedback on the call knome ?
<knome> but ok, i suppose it's ok
<knome> some people told they translated the slideshow
<knome> and asked about the "thanks for installing xubuntu with us" sentence
<knome> i've replied that though
<knome> and i guess, for the record
<slickymaster> yeah I saw that on the -devel ML
<elfy> it does look a bit corny I guess 
<pleia2> I'm good
<knome> #info Translators reading the meeting minutes and not being sure, it is okay to do free translations on the slideshow and modify the text a bit to make it sound good in the destination langauge; as long as the technical bits are as they were in the english translation and the message generally reads the same, we're fine
<slickymaster> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu shows that not much has been done 
<slickymaster> :P
<knome> six complete translations!
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> german seems to be coming up
<slickymaster> and most of them with 0% translated
<elfy> I can do AU .. 
<knome> elfy, oh "yay" ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> when christoffer comes online, tell him to do swedish
<pleia2> do they say flavour too?
<slickymaster> GridCube could finish the spanish one
<knome> and pleia2 can obviously do mongolian and uzbek
<elfy> pleia2: I hope so - it is the correct spelling after all :p
<pleia2> haha
<knome> ok,
<knome> #topic Next meeting
<knome> we okay with this time next week?
<elfy> I am 
<slickymaster> fine with me
<elfy> and we've got ibus on the calendar for the same time too
<knome> #info Next meeting: Thu 3 Apr, 19 UTC @ #xubuntu-devel
<knome> meeting is up in the calehdar.
<elfy> it's on the calendar for 6pm UTC ... 
<knome> calendar too.
 * elfy takes screenshot 
<knome> it's updated now
<knome> stupid DST
<elfy> pebkac
<knome> not really, more in the timezones :P
<knome> and DST weirdnesses
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 27 19:29:43 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-03-27-19.03.moin.txt
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> 3 weeks to release!
<elfy> I'm fine till sunday then it will all go wrong for me and the clock ... 
<pleia2> what's the deal with the wallpapers anyway?
<elfy> knome: roll on 3 weeks tomorrow
<pleia2> xfce, debian
<pleia2> we're all off brand!
<knome> ;)
<elfy> pleia2: yea :)
<knome> will be looking at those problems when we are uploading the new wallpaper
<knome> hmmm...
<knome> the bot is weird today
<knome> not getting all action items
<brainwash> debian and default Xfce wallpaper... back to the roots!
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> hi micahg-work 
<micahg-work> sorry, lost track of time
<elfy> just so you know - the ibus issue has been picked up by someone in Canonical Desktop Team
<micahg-work> awesome
<knome> well, we are kind of going back to the roots with our new wallpaper
 * knome gives teasers
<elfy> lol
<knome> meeting minutes up.
<knome> elfy,     IBus issue update (elfy) 
<knome> elfy, on the agenda
<knome> elfy, remove if you wish. :P
<knome> but we will want the update anyway
<elfy> yea - leave it on there it's fine 
<knome> slickymaster, want to discuss the tour page?
<knome> we can even pester pleia2 with it!
<pleia2> team report updated
 * knome bows
<knome> team reporting that happens during the week with similar bot commands would be awesome.
<knome> then we could poke the bot to spit them out during the meeting to get them in the minutes
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> and we could also make the bot output them in a monthly view
<pleia2> but copy/paste from meeting is easy enough, I'm not so worried
<knome> yeah, but things are forgotten
<knome> and everybody can't be around
<knome> if they could do it when they are on IRC and finished the stuff, we'd have a better report
<pleia2> knome: I made this for you https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1298564 <3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1298564 in Xubuntu Website "Unable to navigate FAQ archive" [High,New]
<knome> duh!
<pleia2> :D
<knome> fsst
 * pleia2 is not very good at gifts
<knome> marked it "incomplete"
 * elfy knows that 
<pleia2> haha
<knome> well it's triaged now...
<ali1234> are you gonna fix all the "sex" screenshots?
<knome> ali1234, for trusty.
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> people are noticing it
<ali1234> i guess it's publicity lol
<knome> i've noticed they are noticing
<pleia2> what are we noticing?
<knome> also, i'm wondering why adult men go to giggling little girls
<ali1234> http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/desktop.png <- look at the clock
<knome> pleia2, sex in the screenshot.
<knome> pleia2, as literally as you can take that...
 * pleia2 eyeroll
<brainwash> we should pixelate it
<knome> i think we should just forget about it
<pleia2> what is it? different language translation of something?
<knome> "ihihihiihihihi, a screenshot says 'sex'"
<knome> so what?
<ali1234> yeah, portuguese
<knome> pleia2, portuguese for "Fri"
<pleia2> that's what I thought
<pleia2> people need to grow up :)
<knome> yes
<ali1234> turns out in portuguese the days don't actually have names
<ali1234> it's just "first day", "second day" etc
<knome> we should make sure we do the new screenshots for 14.04 in english, but for now, just dismiss...
<pleia2> ah, so sixth day, sexta-feira
<knome> i'm actually "waiting" when we have a bug report about that
<pleia2> knome: +1
<ali1234> i can make one if you like :)
<knome> ali1234, no, i really don't...
<knome> ali1234, i was being highly sarcastic
<pleia2> knome: when we upload wallpaper?
<pleia2> I need to take flavor screenshots for a book
<knome> pleia2, i can be in touch with you as soon as it is ready
<pleia2> ok
<knome> pleia2, but i hope we will have a UIFe bug at latest on monday
<micahg-work> 6 babies born at once are sextuplets...
<pleia2> cool
<knome> so, the screenshot would be finished during the weekend
<knome> does that work with your schedule?
<pleia2> should be fine
<knome> ok, ping me if the schedule seems to get too tight
<ali1234> Noskcaj: i know there's loads of thunar crash bug on LP, i can see them all through errors.ubuntu.com, but they're not useful at all
<pleia2> I need to chase down other flavors to see if their desktops are done, but tired
<knome> we can give you something nobody notices
<knome> err, i mean
<knome> something that will be so close to the final one nobody notices
<pleia2> it's printed in black and white anyway :)
<knome> we've been throwing around just color variations(!) lately
<Noskcaj> ali1234, ok.
<knome> which all have a different shade of blue in one spot basically...
 * pleia2 nods
 * knome shakes head at artists...
<ali1234> Noskcaj: i would advice not making them public, because they very often contain filenames etc
<pleia2> knome: haha
 * pleia2 back2work
<knome> hf
<knome> i'm off to eat something
<knome> will be back after that
<elfy> knome: you has mail 
<elfy> that can definitely wait till you've eaten :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: we can close 3 lp reports by packaging xfdesktop git head
<Noskcaj> brainwash, 1. Regression potential? 2. Can upstream just release the next version then?
<brainwash> 1. tested by ochosi and me 2. maybe
<brainwash> but that would be a quick next point release
<brainwash> 4.11.4 is only 9 days old
<ali1234> hmm i am confused. xfdesktop is using 1.5g resident but valgrind does not see it
<brainwash> and we need to fix the mem leak (not upstream)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: is is ok to generate the patches from the according git commits and just add them to quilt?
<Noskcaj> probably, but if i can make a tarball it's probably easier to do it like that
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> we got the same problem with abiword
<brainwash> :(
<Noskcaj> I really wish we were on abiword 2.x.x or libreoffice
<brainwash> but it seems so easy, pick the stable patches and release an upgraded package
<brainwash> but there is also debian
<brainwash> and things need to be kept in sync somehow
<knome> elfy, we have the wallpaper landing, which should affect *some* 13.10 -> 14.04 upgrades.
<ochosi> sorry for missing the meeting earlier
<ochosi> something unforeseen came up..
<knome> elfy, basically, everybody who is still using the default wallpaper from the default location should get updated the new wallpaper
<ochosi> read the backlog though
<knome> elfy, then, i would also consult elfy and micahg to make sure the upgrades *should* end up with the components we want
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, FWIW, I'd rather have a tagged release + patches than a new tarball of a snapshot, but that's just me, that keeps the tarball and the package  reproducible
<micahg-work> it also depends how many patches
<Noskcaj> micahg-work, I'm starting to agree, since it's always a pain to make xfce git into a working tarball
<ochosi> micahg-work: btw, we got +1 from gilir on the light-locker FFe
<micahg-work> ochosi, ok, I can upload tonight then
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, git format-patch might be useful
<ochosi> micahg-work: great!
<ochosi> thanks!
<knome> micahg-work, what is "tonight" in UTC time?
<micahg-work> haha, 01:00 UTC or later
<knome> okay.
<knome> are you up for doing other uploads?
<ochosi> micahg-work: there are a few more things we're considering to fix that might need uploads, specifically we're considering to fix inconsistencies in xfce4-session and xfce4-power-manager
<knome> i will of course make sure we have the exceptions where needed.
<micahg-work> knome, depends how easy they are :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: lp numbers 1270261 1272057 1282227
<micahg-work> give me a list and I'll see what I can do
<micahg-work> ochosi, sounds good
<knome> micahg-work, update the wallpaper in all places, so generally easy (copy -default to -saucy, copy new to -default)
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks. Is that all 4 git commits?
<knome> micahg-work, i have no idea if we will make it, but *if*...
<micahg-work> knome, UIFe (docs with old wallpaper)
<ochosi> i think the wallpaper is in xubuntu-artwork, so i can push it there and make the changes
<brainwash> Noskcaj: 3 commits, 1 commit is not related to any lp report
<ochosi> plus update the changelog
<knome> micahg-work, it is under UIFe yes, but i will make sure we have that.
<knome> ochosi, is it in -artwork for all the packages?
<ochosi> i think so
<micahg-work> knome, ok, FTR, that's our docs team signing off if it's only seeded by is
<micahg-work> us
<knome> plymouth, greeter, desktop
<knome> micahg-work, yes, i'll sign that off for our docs team
<knome> we don't have the wallpaper anywhere though
<ochosi> knome: yeah, iirc we set it up so that it only has to be changed in one place
<knome> the installer slideshow is an arbitrary blue image...
<knome> (+background)
<knome> ochosi, that's very wise of us ;)
<elfy> knome: that doesn't make sense ... "elfy, then, i would also consult elfy and micahg to make sure the upgrades *should* end up with the components we want"
<knome> elfy, err, ochosi and micahg :P
<knome> elfy, does it still not make sense?
<elfy> ok - I thought so - just wanted to make sure of that 
<elfy> knome: though will that not be what's on the release notes?
<knome> elfy, what?
<elfy> end up with the components we want
<knome> hmm,
<knome> well yes, if there is some technical issues we can't overcome
<knome> but at the moment, i'm not sure we've done everything we can
<knome> ..does that make sense?
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> micahg-work: hm, why don't we have a branch for saucy of xubuntu-default-settings?
<micahg-work> no idea, probably because no one pushed one after release
<micahg-work> you need it now?
<ochosi> well it would be good/consistent to have
<ochosi> i actually wanted to compare some default settings
<micahg-work> sigh, that's not right, give me a minute
<micahg-work> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/saucy
<elfy> knome: images are up - blog is updated to have that - all ready to publish 
<micahg-work> ochosi, FWIW, you have all the history in the trunk branch as there haven't been any updates in saucy
<knome> elfy, thanks
<knome> pleia2, do you happen, by any means, have a sec to check the blog?
<elfy> I don't think there are any glaring errors - but a set of eyes will be good :)
<ochosi> micahg-work: thanks! it's just a matter of consistency/habit to me. we do the same thing in most of our other branches as well (at least in -artwork, we do too)
<micahg-work> bzr log -p -r 13.10.5..
<ochosi> sure
<micahg-work> it's useful for SRUs and consistency
<ochosi> indeed
<micahg-work> but if you're trying to check what's changed, a diff will probably be more helpful
<pleia2> knome: what about it?
<micahg-work> replace log with diff if you want just a diff
<knome> pleia2, just look if it's all fine
<ochosi> micahg-work: yup, have been getting a bit more familiar with bzr this cycle :)
<knome> pleia2, just the set of eyes elfy wanted
<pleia2> knome: would be nice to see history there too
<pleia2> here's my rundown
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/blog/ - Can see "newest" but no way to go back further except by category
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/ - No way to go back to earlier ones at all, boo
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/category/articles/ & http://xubuntu.org/news/category/news/ - perfect (see bottom left)
<knome> aha...
<ochosi> micahg-work: quick question. in xubuntu-artwork we generate the link to the most recent wallpaper in the debian packaging (debian/xubuntu-wallpaper.links). is it possible that something about that is broken (or not ready/generated in the live session yet) and that would be the reason for ubiquity not to show our wallpaper?
 * pleia2 seeks lunch
<knome> fwiw, we do have that file and it links to the correct place
<micahg-work> ochosi, I'm not sure how casper handles symlinks
<micahg-work> and/or squashfs
<micahg-work> they should work normally I think though
<ochosi> micahg-work: well it used to work in saucy, so it's a bit of a shot in the dark anyway
<knome> i hear the symlink shouldn't be a problem, edubuntu does the same and it works for them
<knome> (i'm in a PM with stgraber)
<ochosi> hmkay
<ochosi> well it's weird, if we have the wallpaper in place and ubiquity points to it, why isn't it working?
<ochosi> bug in ubiquity maybe?
<knome> well i'm asking about that...
<ochosi> ok ty
<knome> no immediate idea what might be wrong
<micahg-work> did you verify you can see the wallpaper in the right place in the live env?
<knome> i checked from a TTY, the wallpaper is there
<knome> rechecking if i can *see* it
<ochosi> knome: you're in the live session?
<knome> yes
<knome> now i am
<ochosi> hmm, odd
<knome> can see xubuntu-wallpaper.png
<knome> is link, and shows the correct png
<micahg-work> ok
<micahg-work> well, then, maybe a setting is off somewhere
<ochosi> it's hardcoded
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L369
<ochosi> micahg-work: ^
<ochosi> so there is no setting i think...
<micahg-work> that should work, python 3.3 defaults to following symlinks
<micahg-work> does studio's wallpaper still work?
<knome> i haven't seen a bug report about it not working
<elfy> I think they had issues other than worry about wallpaper
<elfy> I've got a day old image - booting it
<knome> elfy, thanks
 * dkessel starts dual LTS upgrade tests
<elfy> micahg-work: studio's wallpaper is ok - or was a day or so ago 
<dkessel> i'll do one as an image upgrade test
<elfy> post when it went wrong for us
<knome> dkessel, mm
<elfy> dkessel: thanks
<knome> dkessel, wait.
<dkessel> OK?
<knome> dkessel, bug 1155167
<ubottu> bug 1155167 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from image prompts creating a new user" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155167
<dkessel> still installing precise ;)
<knome> dkessel, can you look at that while you do it?
<dkessel> OK can do that
<knome> cheers
<Noskcaj> xfdesktop branch is uploading now
<micahg-work> ok, gotta go
<elfy> knome pleia2 - is the blog ok to publish? 
<elfy> though - it seems that infinity is waiting a while anyway 
<elfy> I'm off - cya tomorrow
<dkessel> hmmm it seems the precise installation did not create a swap partition. at least ubiquity tells me it cannot find a swap partition when i do the image upgrade
<dkessel> hehe... nice new choice of pink in the slides
<ochosi> pleia2: ever considered doing a xubuntu princess edition?
<dkessel> meh. ok. is this a bug? after LTS upgrading, there is no whiskermenu, and there is a desktop switcher with two desktops as default... well all in all the panel looks different
<dkessel> or not ;) it still looks like in precise
<dkessel> knome: should i expect my desktop to look like it was before upgrading the OS?
<knome> dkessel, user configration isn't generally updated...
<knome> dkessel, say, you had 3 panels in your desktop in precise
<dkessel> knome: ...and is implicitly created on first login or so?
<knome> we're not going to force you to use one panel with whatever we think is sane
<knome> when you do a clean install, you will get the new defaults
<knome> when you upgrade, you pretty much keep your configuration files
<dkessel> ok. good. never did upgrade tests before.
<Unit193> Also, that's just not how it works.  You can clear it out of ~/.config/xfce/ though.
<knome> yep.
<dkessel> btw the bug above is still there. will mark it using the iso tracker
<dkessel> Unit193: what do you mean with "that's just not how it works?"
<Unit193> XDG, config, etc.
<Unit193> knome: ES still fails to validate.
<knome> bah
<knome> i'll look at it $later
<Unit193> http://paste.progval.net/show/841/
<Unit193> en_AU, fi, fr, ja, oc, pl, pt, ru, sq, and sv all do.
<ali1234> xfdesktop is using 4 gigs but valgrind just can't see it... i don't understand
<ochosi> ali1234: that's not with git, only with the ubuntu version though, right?
<ali1234> i have not been able to reproduce it without the accountservice patch
<ali1234> maybe i was just doing it wrong though
<ochosi> maybe it's a bug in accountsservice?
<ochosi> (after all, the wallpaper-feature is an ubuntu-specific patch in accountsservice)
<Unit193> Heh, I have a lot more issues with xfwm than xfdesktop.
<ali1234> accountsservice patch introduces gio dependency?
<ali1234> i think that is the problem
<ochosi> i thought gio is needed for the network-drives stuff on the desktop, no?
<ochosi> Unit193: what issues do you have with xfwm?
<brainwash> ochosi: true
<ochosi> brainwash: hm, what is?
<brainwash> gio is required for the removable device management
<ali1234> yes but the account service patch adds "#include <gio.h>"
<brainwash> so it shouldn't be a new dependency
<brainwash> so does xfdesktop-file-icon-manager.c
 * pleia2 thumbs up on b2 announcement
<pleia2> if, you know, it ever lands :)
<ochosi> i could imagine that the gio depend in xfdesktop was introduced after the accountsservice patch was written
<pleia2> ochosi: alas, princess edition will have to wait until I make time for silly things (unless it's just a background image change, DONE)
<pleia2> although, on tuesday...]
<ochosi> pleia2: i'd at least expect an accordingly colored theme
<ochosi> and probably a different mouse cursor ;)
<brainwash> ali1234: how much memory is leaked on a single wallpaper change?
<pleia2> see, the trouble with that is I fail at color, so it would just be horrific :)
<ali1234> brainwash: not enough to be measurable
<pleia2> (princess edition should be beautiful!)
<ali1234> when the wallpaper changes 3 times per second it leaks 4GB in a couple of hours
<pleia2> ouch
<ochosi> pleia2: yup, i figured it should
<ochosi> yeah, so that doesn't sound like a huge problem in most RL scenarios
<dkessel> slickymaster: mugshot does not save a webcam recorded profile image in ~/.face - does it save it somewhere else?
<ali1234> so its around 1mb per wallpaper change
<ali1234> i'm running without account service patch now
<ali1234> in two hours or so we'll know if it is the problem
<ochosi> huhu
<brainwash> 2 hours? :D
<ali1234> usage doesn't appear to be increasing at the moment
<brainwash> dkessel: mugshot also uses accountsservice to store the profile picture, but it still should save it as ~/.face
<dkessel> brainwash: well, it doesn't :/ and the profile pic is gone too if you restart mugshot
<brainwash> dkessel: interesting, you can run mugshot in debug mode "mugshot -vv", this will generate some debug output in the terminal
<Unit193> ochosi: Hard to explain.
<brainwash> dkessel: if this issue is reproducible, then you should file a launchpad report and attach the debug output
<dkessel> brainwash: that helped getting more info. yup, will file a bug. hint: the image is too large
<brainwash> dkessel: great :)
<dkessel> brainwash: when i try filing the bug, it seems to be a duplicate of bug 1288754, but that is marked as private it seems. meh
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1288754 could not be found
<dkessel> or not existing? this is strange
<brainwash> ubuntu-bug mugshot?
<brainwash> strange, how does launchpad determine that your report is a dupe? :D
<dkessel> well that's what apport told me... don't know. ubuntu-bug seems to work though
<ali1234> it checks the backtrace
<brainwash> that means that mugshot actually crashed and generated one
<brainwash> Noskcaj: can you please unhide bug 1288754?
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1288754 could not be found
<dkessel> ok... bug 1298665, and ping slickymaster
<ubottu> bug 1298665 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "mugshot is unable to store profile picture" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298665
<dkessel> oh wow. i need to go to bed. good night
<brainwash> dkessel: thanks for the report and good night
<ochosi> oh that is an annoying bug. means you have to compress the image or fiddle with it somehow
<ochosi> uncool
<brainwash> bluesabre0 will gladly fix it :)
<bluesabre0> brainwash, dkessel, saw the bug
<bluesabre0> I'll fix that quickly
<bluesabre0> just have to scale images to a max size
<bluesabre0> easy
<bluesabre0> :)
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=565ccdfd80f0b4c6e6c67314224bb5c8128177c2 nice.
<pleia2> knome: want to hit the b2 post button? I'm working on ubuntu one for fridge
<ali1234> ok xfdesktop definitely isn't leaking without accounts service
<ali1234> i'm going to make that patch into a standalone executable so i can run it 1000 times per second :)
<ali1234> this is probably a dbus leak
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-28
<ochosi> ali1234: i guess that's good news, that xfdesktop on its own doesn't leak
<pleia2> G+ed
<ali1234> ochosi: standalone'd... it leaks like crazy
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7165783/ - this leaks 1 gig per minute
<ochosi> ali1234: any clue yet whether accountsservice itself is to blame yet?
<ali1234> not sure
<ali1234> looks like it could be a gio bug
<ali1234> i'm trying to get the minimal code to cause the leak
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> wwaaaaait a minute...
<ali1234> okay this is a really obvious bug
<ali1234> it never unrefs the "user" object
<ali1234> that's it
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> cool
<ali1234> yep, that's it
<ali1234> it still leaks a little bit
<ali1234> but it's like 10 mb per minute now
<ochosi> sounds like a 100 times better (literally)
<knome> little bit is 10MB per minute? huhu
<ali1234> well it's calling the function thousands of times per second
<ali1234> it's probably leaking like 2 bytes per background change
<knome> :P
<ochosi> ali1234: so we gotta update the accountsservice patch then accordingly...
<ochosi> and ideally Noskcaj can update his sponsoring request with the xfdesktop patches from git
<ochosi> and include the fixed patch
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> so it should be a one-line fix, right?
<ali1234> two lines
<knome> DAMN
<ochosi> ok, that's still quite concise
<bluesabre0> I agree with knome.  two lines, that's horrible.
<bluesabre0> ;)
<knome> any way you could squeeze it to one line?
<ali1234> yes but it would break coding standards
<knome> seriously, you're doing a massacre on our code.
<knome> it's unacceptable
<ali1234> if(user) g_object_unref(user);
<knome> ...i'm just kidding
<ali1234> me too
<knome> goodie
<ali1234> do you have to g_error_free a GError even if there was no error?
<ali1234> no, apparently not
<ali1234> okay so whatever leak remains is a gio bug
<ochosi> well, as long as the major leak is fixed, i think we can live with it for 14.04
<knome> ochosi, ping here actually
<ochosi> aha aha
<knome> bug 1298711
<ubottu> bug 1298711 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New Xubuntu wallpaper" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298711
<ochosi> that looks a bit... empty? :)
<knome> well... yes
<knome> can we go through the changes we need
<knome> and i'll get the approval stamp for that in a minute
<knome> i've been basically given the approval, as long as we don't use a 20x20px tiled wallpaper of naked breasts [sic]
<ochosi> two binary files need to be uploaded, one for greeter, one for desktop
<ochosi> awwwwh
<ochosi> and we need to update the symlink
<ochosi> as long as i get all the files, i can push those changes to trunk and do a new release of xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> but we'll need a sponsor
<knome> package names?
<knome> wasn't micahg going to be online and uploading today at 1utc
<knome> that is, in 5 minutes
<knome> what's the greeter package/branch
<ochosi> it's all in xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> i'm considering to sneak in a few icon updates too
<ochosi> would you mind that?
<ochosi> it's no new icons, just additional sizes
<knome> i would... unless you describe them in the bug
<knome> :P
<ochosi> (and probably not even many)
<knome> greeter package name?
<knome> or is that in xubuntu-artwork as well?
<knome> you are confusing me by being too exact.
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> it's all there
<ochosi> both the greeter and plymouth point to the same wallpaper path
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> which is shipped in xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> and xfdesktop points to another wallpaper-path, which is also in xubuntu-artwork
<knome> hmm, additional icon sizes are bugfixes
<knome> so i guess you should take it to micahg
<ochosi> if i'm still around when he gets here...
<knome> see bug 1298711 again
<ubottu> bug 1298711 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New Xubuntu wallpaper" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298711
<knome> and tell me if it's okay for release team approval
<ochosi> did you just copy-paste what i said in here? :)
<knome> almost!
<ochosi> well we should actually push the wallpaper first
<knome> okay
<ochosi> then it'll be ready for ubuntu-release
<knome> are we fine with what we have now?
<knome> well,
<knome> they said they don't mind if it's not in the branch...
<knome> but did you want to look at it again in the library?
<knome> or should we just push?
<ochosi> i guess pretty much. if you wanna push it tonight then i don't have any further thoughts on the wallpaper
<knome> ok.
<knome> 1920x1200 or bigger?
<ochosi> look at the spec for our wallpaper contest for the correct resolution ;)
<ochosi> btw, we could fix this bug along the way: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-look/+bug/1292550
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1292550 in ubuntustudio-look (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio wallpapers are only selectable in XFCE" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> cause it also affects us (if we even care that much)
<knome> hmm
<knome> we can do it with another push when we fix other issues with the wallpapers
<ochosi> not sure those issues are in xubuntu-artwork
<knome> ok, so http://temp.knome.fi/.w/xubuntu-trusty.png
<knome> OMG IT'S PUBLIC!
<knome> :)
<knome> ochosi, want to push it?
<ochosi> will do in a minute
<ochosi> where's the second version?
<knome> thanks
<knome> oh, oops
<knome> which name?
<ochosi> wallpaper.png :)
<bluesabre0> knome: fancy, I approve very much
<knome> coming!
<knome> bluesabre0, good...
<ochosi> bluesabre0: it came with much headache ;)
<knome> we've used probably at least 80 hours each on it with simon
<knome> err,
<knome> 8 hours
<knome> wallpaper.png is in the same directory
<bluesabre0> (go with 80, your dedication will be admired)
<knome> heh
<knome> well i've probably used more than 8...
<knome> we've both worked at least 3 hours on today alone
<ochosi> knome: btw, have you tested the wallpaper.png one in context?
<ochosi> i.e. with the greeter
<knome> no
<knome> i can't see why it would fail
<knome> i mean, yeah, windows can overlap the lines, but... so? :)
<ochosi> yeah, it most likely wont look totally awful :)
<knome> if it does, let's do a bugfix release!
<bluesabre0> :D
<knome> i'm so sick of this
<knome> pleia2, PING!
<knome> pleia2, pick your wallpaper for a screenshot, or wait for the next daily
<ochosi> pusing...
<ochosi> pushing...
<knome> haha
<knome> or should i say
<knome> aa
<ochosi> :)
<knome> no changelog update?
<ochosi> yeah, when i do the release
<ochosi> i also need to bump the version number
<knome> oki
<ochosi> better to do two separate commits
<knome> ok, getting a release team ACK
<ochosi> changelog pushed
<ochosi> apart from xubuntu-t-bugs we're looking pretty solid now
<knome> aaaand we have the UIFe
<bluesabre0> freaking lightning
<Unit193> bluesabre0: The weather event or thunderbird extension? :P
<bluesabre0> knome's approval speed
<knome> haha
<knome> well i was asking in advance
<knome> and since they were like "yeah whatever, you barely even need to UIFe..."
<knome> bluesabre0, http://temp.knome.fi/.w/trusty-yellow.png
<knome> bluesabre0, for your pleasure
<knome> bluesabre0, variant provided by simon
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> actually i'd do the gradient a bit different now or add a little vignetting
<bluesabre0> interesting
<ochosi> but i still like the palette
<knome> in addition to that, i have like 10 blue variants...
<bluesabre0> you can make this one transparent again
<knome> now that we have the official one out of the door, we can do whatever color variations
<bluesabre0> I think Unit193 requested a teal/magenta variant
<knome> hah
<ochosi> do we want to add any other keyboard shortcuts apart from updating the existing one for whiskermenu? (ctrl+esc)
<bluesabre0> dunno
<ochosi> e.g. ctrl+alt+l for locking?
<bluesabre0> I need to check which ones we have now
<ochosi> me too :)
<Unit193> Wallpaper isn't my favorite, but better than the yellow one. :P
<knome> Unit193, i can do a black one for you.
<brainwash> black on black?
<knome> do you prefer some color with it, or just shades of grey?
<brainwash> 50 shades?
<bluesabre0> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml
<knome> har har
<Unit193> I don't normally do defaults, but blackish with red "trim" would be the most likely to be used by me. :P
<knome> okay, let's see
<Unit193> But, yeah.  Feel free to ignore me, looks good enough for default.
<knome> well we discussed about doing a blog post on the variants
<brainwash> how about a svg version and some script to change it dynamically? rainbow version anyone?
<knome> >__<
<bluesabre0> ochosi: I think we're good with what we have
<bluesabre0> we even have killitwithfire
<knome> you can do that with the svg once it's published.
<brainwash> I would call it the "nyan mouse edition"
<bluesabre0> :D
<ochosi> only once the xfdesktop leak is fixed :)
<ochosi> otherwise the rainbow-version will eat your ram for breakfast
 * bluesabre0 wants to do a nyan-xfce-mouse video for the 14.04 release
<ochosi> ali1234: can/will you update the patch or do you need help?
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Heh, nice. :P
<bluesabre0> knome: any plans for 14.04 promotional videos?
<knome> bluesabre0, like?
<bluesabre0> dunno
<knome> hah
<bluesabre0> I was thinking about trying to do a release highlights video
<bluesabre0> didn't want to duplicate work
<bluesabre0> :)
<bluesabre0> also, magically the dropbox indicator started working again today
<bluesabre0> huzzah!
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> bluesabre0: if i update a changelog but don't know who will update/upload the package, whose name do i put down?
<bluesabre0> ochosi, just do "dch" and add your changes.  whoever does the uplaod will update it with "dch -i" or something like that
<bluesabre0> Unit193 can be more specific here
<Unit193> I don't often use dch, actually.  Until you actually want it uploaded, target UNRELEASED.
<Unit193> UNRELEASED basically means "Not ready for upload", once you're ready, you change to whatever you want to target (trusty, unstable, etc.)
<knome> Unit193, http://temp.knome.fi/.w/black.png
<knome> Unit193, just a quick draft.
<knome> it has banding, but blah.
<Unit193> Wohoo, me likeie.
<ochosi> bluesabre0: ok
<knome> Unit193, can send the svg to you/ochosi, who can improve it further
<knome> Unit193, with some lovely pink tones
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<ochosi> Unit193: right, but i want it uploaded, so target UNRELEASED blows, no? well i guess micahg will change this anyway..
<ochosi> whenever micahg gets here, feel free to point him to this MR: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/appmenu_shortcut/+merge/213181
<knome> my take is: target UNRELEASED until you know somebody will upload it as it is now.
<Unit193> You broke my shortcut. :(
<ochosi> Unit193: no, i only proposed to break it
<Unit193> :P
<ochosi> i broke your default panel setup too
<ochosi> so who cares
<knome> haa haa!
<ochosi> suddenly knome sounds like nelson
<knome> lately a lot
<pleia2> knome: it's beer time! what do you want? :)
<pleia2> oh, wallpaper, yay!
<pleia2> I can wait for the next daily :) I said I'd do the screenshots over the weekend
<knome> pleia2, i just had emeliess saison
<knome> emelisse too
<knome> i guess i should drink the westvleteren 12 on release day...
<pleia2> I was too lazy to go all the way to the proper beer store, so I ended up with just a couple local IPAs
<knome> awwh
<knome> http://www.brewdog.com/product/to-l-cloud-9-wit
<knome> i have that on stock :)
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre0> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1298741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1298741 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Please upload bugfix shimmer-themes-1.7.3" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre0> I was going to do the wallpaper package tonight too, but I am getting light-headed, need to get some rest
<bluesabre0> be back tomorrow
<bluesabre0> night all
<knome> nighty bluesabre0 
<bluesabre0> ah, the wallpaper package has native packaging, so I didn't need to do that anyway :)
<knome> i'm off to bed as well
<knome> micahg, please see bug 1298711, everything is ready for an upload
<ubottu> bug 1298711 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New Xubuntu wallpaper" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298711
<Noskcaj> ali1234, can i have a link to the new patch for xfdesktop4?
<brainwash> did the very recent python package upgrades mess up mugshot?
<brainwash> it won't start anymore
<Unit193> Working here.
<elfy> and here
<Unit193> ^C doesn't work. >_>
<Unit193>  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mugshot_lib/Window.py", line 84, in on_destroy
<Unit193>     def on_destroy(self, widget, data=None):
<Unit193> KeyboardInterrupt
<Unit193> -9 it is.
<Unit193> brainwash: Use -v or -vv ?
<brainwash> not needed, it's a seg fault
<brainwash> strange
<brainwash> let me check what upgrades I've downloaded and applied 
<brainwash> catfish also crashes :)
<Unit193> menulibre?
<brainwash> nope, menulibre runs fine
<brainwash> bluesabre0 help!
<elfy> catfish works fine here - just updated/graded
<brainwash> got proposed enabled?
<brainwash> I do
<elfy> nope
<brainwash> maybe something wrong at my end.. but it did work like 3 hours ago
<Unit193> Proposed is the testing grounds and where things sit until everything is built as part of a transition, not supposed to be enabled.
<brainwash> testing ground, exactly what I'm looking for
<Unit193> Erm..
<elfy> perhaps that's why stuff breaks all the time for you then :)
<brainwash> it breaks for me all the time? nah
<brainwash> not without a good reason :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I guess it doesn't help that you've got the whole repository installed too :p
<Unit193> Hah.
<brainwash> this does not seem to cause any harm, other than mixed default settings for the gnome3 based sessions
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<brainwash> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> morning brainwash 
<olbi> hi guys, in Whisker menu there are items, like Web Browser, File Manager and Mail Reader which aren't default translating into proper lang. I can do this by using Menu Editor, by I want it by default in my lang.
<ochosi> those are the items from exo, i.e. xfce upstream
<ochosi> they're not related to whiskermenu
<olbi> so translating them in transifex?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and then wait for xfce to do a release of that with your translations, and for xubuntu to pick up the release and ship it
<olbi> that's my fault not to tell you that in time, but XChat doesn't have a new version from long time, we should change it to Smuxi :)
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> not going to happen for T, best to write a spec for it for T+1
<ochosi> feel free to go ahead and do it
<ochosi> just saying cause ppl seem to think stuff is going to happen if they just come here and state a recommendation/idea
<olbi> shit, no one approved changes in translation in transifex for exo for my lang :/
<bluesabre0> olbi: smuxi uses mono, so probably not going to happen
<ochosi> oh, hah, there you go :)
<bluesabre0> I wish it didn't, because it is certainly nicer than xchat
<ochosi> doesn't elementary have a nice irc app?
<ochosi> (never used/tested it though)
<bluesabre0> probably
<bluesabre0> the new gnome one is looking good too
<bluesabre0> but its attached to g-o-a, and has a headerbar
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> well the headerbar itself is not the problem, as soon as we get ali1234's headerbar fixes for xfwm4
<ochosi> it's more the gnome-depends that make this a headache
<bluesabre0> yup
<bluesabre0> I hope the elementary apps start rolling into the main archive
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre0> there are quite a few that would be good to considwer
<ochosi> mhm
<elfy> does the new gnome one have more than a connect and disconnect button .... 
<ochosi> huhu
<elfy> couldn't help it :p
<brainwash> hexchat is available
<Unit193> ochosi: Headerbars are still very crappy, I'd never support one.  Hexchat is the best bet.
<Unit193> (If there were good alternatives, and for IRC there is.)
<olbi> ochosi: could You aprrove polish translation for LightLocker?
<olbi> in transifex?
<hobgoblin> this Cable irc client is a bit basic ... 
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> olbi: i think i can, lemme quickly check
<olbi> ok
<Unit193> hobgoblin: Was?
<ochosi> olbi: seems 100% translated on transifex, where would i have to approve?
<elfy> was what?
<olbi> ochosi: I have information: uncommitted
<ochosi> olbi: it's possible that it hasn't been merged back to github
<olbi> ochosi: oh, that's why
<olbi> ochosi: but it's strange cause this translation has about 2 weeks and should be done
<olbi> today updates for xub 14.04 doesn't has this
<ochosi> that is no surprise
<ochosi> if it was pulled to github, it got released with 1.4.0
<ochosi> and that hasn't been uploaded to xubuntu 14.04 yet
<bluesabre0> if there are no updates, we can provide an ubuntu translations patch prior to the 14.04 release
<ochosi> there are 4 new strings
<ochosi> so hmpf
<ochosi> i'd just wait for 1.4.0 to land
<ochosi> the FFe has been granted already, so it's mostly a matter of time
<bluesabre0> oh right
<bluesabre0> wasn't quite reading everything
<bluesabre0> but that does apply to other apps :)
<brainwash> bluesabre0: any idea why mugshot, catfish and update-manager segfault almost immediately and menulibre does not?
<brainwash> how is menulibre different?
<brainwash> maybe I should just revert all recent trusty/proposed upgrades :/
<ochosi> none of that segfaults for me
<brainwash> it does for me since today
 * ochosi decides not to run upgrades today
<brainwash> but still, why is menulibre not affected.. that's strange
<elfy> ochosi: they all work here - updated/upgraded - but I've not got proposed turned on
<elfy> ochosi: I need to start pushing upgrade testing - but not sure at the moment if there are things not there yet? knome seemed to intimate that we might not have everything still 
<ochosi> elfy: yes, light-locker 1.4.0 is awaiting upload (FFe already granted)
<elfy> ok 
<knome> ochosi, i was more concerned regarding upgrades, and for example, the indicators situation
<ochosi> indicators should be fine
<knome> ochosi, eg. if we clean up as much stuff as we can
<ochosi> "clean up"? ah you mean remove gtk2 indicators?
<knome> yeah, stuff like that
<ochosi> no, none of that is taking place. even xscreensaver remains installed
<knome> okay
<knome> is there a bug for that?
<ochosi> it's a bit annoying, because that means ppl have two settings panels for screensaver -> confusing
<knome> yes
<ochosi> the gtk2 indicators aren't that much of a concern
<knome> okat
<knome> *okay
<elfy> ochosi: but light-locker is used in preference after upgrade regardless of having xscreensaver installed?
<ochosi> would be good to get rid of them, but as i don't know how anyway...
<ochosi> elfy: yes
<knome> well we should investigate
<elfy> thought so - ty ochosi 
<knome> at least if it affects installs..
<knome> i mean,
<knome> it's not a huge issue if packages are installed but not used
<knome> as long as they don't start running and giving an unwanted experience
<ochosi> xscreensaver will most likely be running, but not doing anything
<ochosi> anyway, tbh i don't think i have time to investigate this issue
<ochosi> someone with more packaging/distro experience should take this up
<knome> yes... but is there a bug or something for that?
<ochosi> i'll try to work on the settings sync for xfce4-session/xfpm/light-locker-settings with respect to "lock on suspend", that's kinda enough for now
<ochosi> not that i know iof
<ochosi> i wouldn#t even be sure what to file it against
<ochosi> probably xubuntu-meta
<ochosi> but i dunno
<elfy> knome: not sure what's up with the two beta release note pages - the common infrastructure bits are all fubar - I've no idea what's up with them
<brainwash> but if no package depends on xscreensaver anymore, it should get removed automatically during the upgrade process, or?
<knome> elfy, hmm?
<ochosi> brainwash: i really have no clue how upgrades work exactly, would be cool if you could test...
<elfy> Include: Nothing found for "^##StartTrustyReleaseBugs"! for instance 
<knome> hmm right
<knome> paste me the link
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/Beta1/Xubuntu
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/Beta2/Xubuntu
<knome> fixed
<elfy> ta :)
<brainwash> ochosi: not sure what has changed, but I did the upgrade to trusty months ago and xscreensaver got even removed on the normal update runs
<ochosi> well if that happens, then the gtk2 indicators should also go away by default, no?
<brainwash> I reinstalled it like 2-3 times
<brainwash> unless they are marked as manually installed 
<brainwash> I don't feel like downloading saucy, installing it, upgrading it and then still not having a clue about what's going on
<elfy> why should you be any different :p
<brainwash> don't you do this stuff like every day? :P
<elfy> confusion - absolutely :p
<brainwash> you could run "apt-mark showmanual | grep xscreensaver" to check if xscreensaver is marked as manually installed
<ochosi> brainwash: you can also download precise ;)
<ochosi> my system is a clean install btw, so that command doesn'
<ochosi> t make sense to test for me
<wabbla> hi all, i just saw that, the option "encrypt homefolder" when adding a user is gone in 14.04. is that intended?
<brainwash> wabbla: hey
<brainwash> you mean the settings manager > users and groups?
<brainwash> tool
<wabbla> yes
<brainwash> the checkbox is still there for me
<wabbla> it's not here for me. that's interesting. maybe the window is too small.
<wabbla> it should be in the first dialog, when it asks for the username, right?
<brainwash> or a missing dependency
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> close to the bottom
<knome> elfy... i just can't reproduce bug 1294209 :)
<ubottu> bug 1294209 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Deleting files from desktop freezes machine for short period" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294209
<brainwash> boo
<brainwash> mark as incomplete :)
<ochosi> knome: me neither
<ochosi> iirc elfy said he can't either with a new user..?
<knome> hmm, aha
<knome> not in the bug report though
<brainwash> some log file would be helpful, but elfy stated there is nothing special logged
<elfy> wabbla brainwash I don't see it in a machine installed yesterday
<elfy> knome: I can only reproduce that on this machine - it's not long for this world ... 
<brainwash> ok, lets check why it hides the option
<knome> elfy, oki, marked it as incomplete, open if it reappears with any other machine or you have any better debug information
<elfy> ok
<wabbla> brainwash: i installed encfs and libpam-encfs, it still doesn't appear. will logout, and maybe reboot if that changes something.
<brainwash> wabbla: is ecryptfs-utils installed?
<wabbla> brainwash: not by me. i will try that
<brainwash> encfs is usually not being used to encrypt the home partition
<elfy> there were issues with encrypted home install tests during beta - coincidence probably
<wabbla> brainwash: ah, here it is (with ecryptfs-utils). cool, not a bug :-)
<wabbla> another issue with playing around with encrypted installs yesterday: xubuntu does not boot, if i check "encrypt filesystem" in installation of a KVM guest
<brainwash> so it's a full disk encryption?
<wabbla> yes, that option when you have when choosing the partitioning setup, lvm etc.
<brainwash> possibly a general ubuntu issue or regression
 * elfy tries here in vb
<wabbla> in virtualbox it works.
 * elfy doesn't bother
<brainwash> oh, so it's a special case
<brainwash> I suggest that you try to ask in #ubuntu+1 and/or #ubuntu-devel
<wabbla> yes, maybe it never worked ... ok, not that i need it, i was just trying. but home encryption is nice to have.
<brainwash> feel free to file a bug report on launchpad :)
<elfy> sun's out - so am I
<SergioAD> Hello
<SergioAD> I am SergioAD a fan of Xubuntu
<SergioAD> I am a Linux user since six years and I am here to suggest the new style of Xubuntu 14.10 now because you know wat the end of the Winbugs XP is soon, well lets start
<SergioAD> my suggested style is the next the panel on the buttom whisker menu firefox show desktop parole task manager separator systray indicators clock and log out boton
<brainwash> SergioAD: hello there, why do you want to focus on 14.10 already? 14.04 is a very important release which requires our full attention right now
<brainwash> on top of that, saying something in this chat might or will get lost
<brainwash> so it would be very nice if you could create a document or wiki page to visualize your ideas for 14.10
<brainwash> and share it after the actual release of 14.04
<SergioAD> brainwash, because it will be LTS :)
<SergioAD> OK
<SergioAD> how can I do it?
<knome> SergioAD, is it just a proposal, or are you willing to work with others and improve and argument for it?
<knome> my intention is not to sound negative or bitter... it's just that many of these ideas end up being ideas and not much more
<knome> so unless you have a clear target and intention and motivation to push it forward, creating a wikipage won't be of much help
<SergioAD> knome, I have it, my intention is make Xubuntu ideal for new users and make it better
<knome> in that case, use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications to create a new spec for the U-cycle
<SergioAD> OK
<knome> after you've done that, and you think you have covered all the issues mentioned in the spec template, send an email to the xubuntu-devel mailing list
<knome> introducing both yourself and the spec you have written
<knome> and thanks
<micahg> hello
<knome> hey
<micahg> I'll get the FFe stuff uploaded as soon as I can
<knome> UIFe too? ;)
<knome> micahg, also, if you have any ideas about the failing wallpaper issue, feel free to poke at it
<micahg> knome: sure
<micahg> if I can get a list somewhere (or if it's in the sponsorship queue)
<knome> bug 1298711
<ubottu> bug 1298711 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New Xubuntu wallpaper" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298711
<micahg> I haven't worked much with ubiquity
<knome> the branch is prepared.
<micahg> ok, great
<knome> bug 1282227
<ubottu> bug 1282227 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop-settings dialog not immediately displaying all available wallpapers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282227
<knome> i'm off.
<knome> thanks micahg 
<knome> -<
<micahg> ok
<elfy> it's raining and I'm back
<jhenke> hi
<elfy> hi jhenke 
<brainwash> elfy: some hours later, next batch of upgrades -> affected python apps launch properly again :)
<elfy> brainwash: lol - so turn off proposed :p
<brainwash> yes sir
<brainwash> :)
<elfy> brainwash: lol 
 * elfy updates to see what's new 
<elfy> not very much 
<elfy> lderan: be my guest at calling for that help now :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: should we also fix/refresh our custom xfdesktop patch and add it to the merge request?
<brainwash> or wait for the next one
<Noskcaj> brainwash, might as well add it to this one. Link to the patch?
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1295614
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295614 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop leaking memory on wallpaper change (ubuntu 14.04 with xfce)" [High,In progress]
<Noskcaj> I have to finish some gnome stuff first though
<brainwash> well, the patch has not been refreshed yet
<brainwash> wait, my PPA has it
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+junk/xfdesktop4-debian
<brainwash> debian/patches/xubuntu_set-accountsservice-user-bg.patch
<brainwash> I'm also trying to fix the last xfdesktop related issue in our -bugs list, but this will take more time, so it will be patched later (hopefully)
<brainwash> xfdesktop not showing icons for network icons
<elfy> brainwash: yea - pretty sure I've seen that when testing something
<elfy> gigolo 
<brainwash> gigolo and thunar know how to handle network shares, but it's a new feature in xfdesktop and apparently not tested enough
<elfy> yea - just saying where I'd seen it
<jhenke> good night
<brainwash> slickymaster: can we close bug 1214361?
<ubottu> bug 1214361 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfce4-appfinder crashed with SIGSEGV in xfconf_g_property_channel_disconnect()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214361
<brainwash> appears to be an one time crash
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-29
<knome> micahg, did you get to upload something?
<knome> Unit193, keeping hopes up for RU and ES
<Unit193> Mmmm, I have hopes for RU as well, some others too.
<elfy> ochosi: "can i have a screensaver (xscreensaver) and still use light locker for login?" our pqwoerituytrueiwoq friend ... 
<bluesabre> elfy: nope
<bluesabre> err
<bluesabre> well, yes
<bluesabre> if he wants to enter his password twice
<elfy> he might - he'd rather have something on the screen than a blank one - uses TV for monitor apparently
<elfy> and hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> it might be possible, but if he's doing something like that, just use xscreensaver
<elfy> yea - remove lightlocker I guess
<jhenke> good morning
<elfy> hi jhenke 
<elfy> bluesabre: your words are immortalised on the forum ... 
<bluesabre> oh boy
<elfy> I highlighted the 'err' 
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> elfy: he's probably mixing things up
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> he's probably wanting to say "can i still use the greeter and use xscreensaver for locking"
<elfy> entirely possible
<ochosi> light-locker has nothing to do with login
<elfy> yep - that will be a what do I call it thing I expect
<bluesabre> hey ochosi: going to try release a fixed greeter now before I'm gone for the day
<elfy> rather - I think what he's saying is then can I have a screensaver and still use light-locker
<ochosi> bluesabre: great stuff! i don't think we have any other bugs we can/want to fix for now and that one bug is nasty enough to warrant a release
<ochosi> also, translations
<ochosi> elfy: right, that doesn't make too much sense then...
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should do another parole sprint and try to fix one or two more bugs and then do a release of that, maybe next week or so
<ochosi> bluesabre: or: could :)
<elfy> ochosi: yea - reading between the lines - he wants a 'picture' on the monitor - not a blank screen 
<bluesabre> ochosi: agreed
<bluesabre> I'm going to do a round of bugfix releases this weekend, then we can try to hack on parole
<ochosi> bluesabre: that sounds great. well that or we try to figure out the lock-settings mess :)
<brainwash> mugshot anytime soon too? :)
<bluesabre> I don't suppose you had a chance to test the dvd fix?
<bluesabre> brainwash: today or tomorrow
<brainwash> great
<bluesabre> brainwash: any particulars you want fixed for sure?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i asked around, ppl here don't have any video dvds :/
<bluesabre> ok, I'll hope for the best... it does work for me anyway :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that's not in the scope of light-locker
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, it'll most likely be an improvement, even if it only works for some ;)
<elfy> ochosi: I know - so remove light-locker and install xscreensaver would work for him
<ochosi> elfy: exactly. probably i need to extend that post for x.org on locking and mention screensavers
<brainwash> bluesabre: not sure, I pushed 3 branches which add some minor improvements (no lp reports)
<elfy> ochosi: yea, or I could 
<ochosi> anyway, gotta take off now
<elfy> have a good weekend :)
<ochosi> elfy: that'd be great, feel free to go ahead
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you already have a solution for the file size issue?
<ochosi> thanks, i'll most likely come back quickly tonight and check in
<elfy> somehow I knew you'd say that :p
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> have a nice day everyone!
<brainwash> cya ochosi 
<elfy> hi brainwash 
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, I'm going to scale the image to 250px or something small
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<brainwash> bluesabre: ok
<bluesabre> btw, make some merge requests for your branches explaining them... otherwise, they look pretty good
<brainwash> nothing special, and I was not sure if they are actually merge ready
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - you're safe now, not immortalised on the forum :p
<bluesabre> *phew*
<elfy> lol
<brainwash> *pqwo*
<brainwash> just checking the ubuntu+1 subforum
<elfy> generally it's either pqwwerweraf or ajgreeny bringing up Xubuntu issues
<bluesabre> ok, greeter released, now for some quick packaging
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/1.8/1.8.4
<dkessel> hey guys
<bluesabre> hey dkessel
<dkessel> bluesabre: which DVD issue are you referring to?
<bluesabre> dkessel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1098323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1098323 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole failes to play DVD" [Medium,Triaged]
<bluesabre> I applied a fix in trunk
<elfy> dkessel: most of the bugs being looked at are on the blueprint I think/hope
<elfy> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
<dkessel> bluesabre: I could verify a fix. hmm is there a package yet or how could I try?
<bluesabre> the parole package here should be updated with the fix: https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/xfce-4.12-daily
<dkessel> OK will try that later today
<dkessel> don't want make the cat stand up from my lap atm ;)
<elfy> lol
<dkessel> :D
<bluesabre> thanks dkessel
<bluesabre> knome, micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1299397
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1299397 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.4" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> that release should fix that horrible bug
<brainwash> "horrible" :)
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<brainwash> bye
<elfy> cya bluesabre 
<bluesabre> any bug I have to fix twice is "horrible"
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> or rather, "that has to be fixed twice"
<bluesabre> since ochosi did all the work the second time :)
<elfy> lol
 * bluesabre has cleared his conscious and can leave now
<bluesabre> or is that conscience
<elfy> sleeping for the day 
<bluesabre> whatever
<bluesabre> bbl
<elfy> aah - conscience might be best :p
<bluesabre> heh
<udzguru> hello
<elfy> same answer in here ;)
<udzguru> no different question here probably ;) 
<elfy> that said I'm lazy and tend to use synaptic 
<udzguru> my wireless indicator in the tray disappeared for no reason. starting nm-applet does not bring it back. any ideas? 
<udzguru> (beforehand i killed all instances of nm-applet)
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
<elfy> look at the indicators may fail to load bit :)
<udzguru> ok ... applying the changes ... then will reboot (due to a kernel update). will get back with more information afterwards. thanks for your help in advance!
<elfy> brainwash: do you know of the top of your head if the old Ctrl+Esc shortcut to menu is being added for whiskermenu?
<elfy> or indeed anyone else who is lurking ;)
<udzguru> back again
<elfy> I noticed :p
<udzguru> everything worked out fine after using your howto elfy. thank you so much for your help.
<elfy> welcome :)
<udzguru> had to get used to the little-confusing settings of the notification panel but now i have back my wireless indicator ;) 
<elfy> I don't use wireless so ... 
<udzguru> yeah ... call it network indicator ;) 
<elfy> :)
<udzguru> performance-wise i really like trusty. 
<elfy> good :)
<starrats> Just curious did you devel folks get rid of 'workspaces' on the final Beta, I'm using it now.
<elfy> just booted the daily - that has 2 workspaces
<starrats> couldn't find the 'daily'
<elfy> starrats: middle click on the desktop - how many workspaces does that show you?
<elfy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<starrats> ok
<brainwash> elfy: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/appmenu_shortcut
<elfy> brainwash: thanks - I guessed it was in the pipeline - just checking :)
<elfy> and I'm never really sure where to look either ... 
<elfy> I guess if I kept links to the LP pages for people I'd probably find them there lol 
<elfy> starrats: so how many workspaces when you middle click on desktop?
<starrats> I have now 4 but can't get the 3 to move to the individual spaces 
<starrats> they're all in #1 workspace
<elfy> what? 
<elfy> I completely don't understand that
<elfy> hi lderan 
<starrats> I have FF, TB mail and Hexchat all in the first workspace want to put them in individual workspaces
<elfy> right click on the title bar and move them - or drag them 
<starrats> ok
<starrats> will work on it in a bit must go help my gf atm
<brainwash> we've crippled the workspace usability a bit
<elfy> how?
<elfy> I don't use it much so haven't really noticed much 
<brainwash> workspace switcher (panel) has been removed and some on-scroll functionality has been disabled
<elfy> oic - the oh my you could accidentally shake while typing 1 and get 1111 workspaces thing :p
<brainwash> 100 is max
<elfy> and the switcher can be added if people want it 
<elfy> brainwash: I'm just quoting someone else :)
<brainwash> no, not the settings dialog scroll problem
<elfy> yes :)
<brainwash> elfy: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/xfwm4_disable_scrollevents/+merge/209545
<elfy> instead of going for "11" you go for "111" or even "1111"
<elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10644
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10644 in Settings "Number keys not working in Workspace settings" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> yeah, but ochosi does not want it to be changed ^
<elfy> oh that - I see waht you're talking about now 
<brainwash> :)
<elfy> yep - I know - I Was confusing 2 issues there 
<elfy> I forget we did that as I still haven't got that change and had to put it back
<brainwash> just created a new user and our default whiskermenu favorites add some clutter
<brainwash> maybe it's just me
<elfy> looking in vm
<brainwash> I prefer a clean and lightweight look
<elfy> well ... 
<brainwash> don't agree? :)
<brainwash> it's my first impression
<elfy> pretty sure the decision was to have in favourites what is in the slideshow - and it's easy enough to remove things
<brainwash> yes, everyone can change whatever he wants
<elfy> my default menu has completely different things on it 
<elfy> brainwash: compare that to the app menu plugin
<brainwash> the classic app menu has a clean look
<elfy> there is actually 1 less 'app' on the default whiskermenu 
<brainwash> ok, I don't want it to be changed (would be almost impossible anyway)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> brainwash: aha - got some sort of useful output - ish on deleting from desktop - adding it to report
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1294209/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1294209 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Deleting files from desktop freezes machine for short period" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<brainwash> elfy: nice, we got a hint now :)
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/38853
<elfy> then a second attempt to delete from the desktop doesn't get the warning
<elfy> anyway - there we go - finally get something useful for it :p
<brainwash> only a warning message according to the arch report, but your system apparently freezes =S
<elfy> yep
<elfy> no apparently about it :D
<elfy> can't find anything on bugzilla.xfce
<elfy> I'll report it there 
<elfy> or is the issue with gvfs
<brainwash> gvfs, but thunar/xfdesktop might be causing the freeze by not handling the gvfs warning/error properly
<brainwash> can you check if thunar is also generating the warning?
<elfy> really don't want another damn account lol
<elfy> I don't get the same issue when deleting in thunar - it is only from the desktop
<brainwash> if yes and thunar does not cause any freeze, then there is something wrong with xfdesktop maybe
<brainwash> ok, file against xfdesktop
<brainwash> upstream
<elfy> yep
<elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10778
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10778 in General "Deleting file from desktop freezes system" [Normal,New]
<elfy> added it to LP report - still a vague description - but there you go - I'm vague at the best of times :)
<brainwash> at least we now have something to work with
<elfy> yea
<dkessel> bluesabre: your fix for the dvd playback issue works. i have verified with parole from your xfce ppa
<starrats> elfy and brainwash I did figure out how to work the new version of 'workspaces', I use them a lot considering this is Linux but I prefer the old way when they sat up on top and not using middle mouse button to get to each one.
<brainwash> starrats: it's the same thing, you can re-add the panel workspace switcher
<starrats> ah okay
<starrats> got it thanks brainwash
<bluesabre> dkessel, thanks a lot!
<dkessel> well thank you for fixing, bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> I'll do a new parole release tonight, mugshot too
<dkessel> bluesabre: regarding bug 1293151 - i debugged it a bit and found it only happens in the live session. still interested in finding the problem?
<ubottu> bug 1293151 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "menulibre: hidden entry is still displayed in menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293151
<bluesabre> yeah, if we can figure it out, it will probably save some trouble down the road
<starrats> good, bad or indifferent that timed from when the screen goes black and have to put you password in on this last Beta is really a short time, not complaing just noticing
<brainwash> starrats: put your password to do what?
<brainwash> unlock the session after it was inactive for 10 minutes?
<starrats> away form the laptop for a bit and then I comeback and te desktop/screen is black and I move the cursor a tad and I have to put my password back in to get back on
<starrats> like I said really no big deal but it is quite fast or I'm slow in getting back, lol
<starrats> yes brainwash
<brainwash> 10 minutes is the default timeout
<brainwash> but you can change it
<brainwash> settings manager > light locker settings
<starrats> ah okay but the 10 minutes is fine I was only commenting on it.  Love this final.
<starrats> when this is released, I hope a lot of folks will be thrilled with it, like I am.  Very good job by all who participated in this  build!
<dkessel> bluesabre: i attached files to the menulibre bug. extra info: if i log out of the live session and re-enter the session, the menu is updated correctly
<Unit193> Re: Xubuntu translations: 1. Well I'd hope everything is 100% English.  2. What translation should Libreoffice pull in when installed?  This sounds more like it's expecting you to know what language you want, and for you to install it.  3&4 see #1 :P  (But really, I think he's confused between git master and actual releases.)
<knome> yep.
<knome> though i guess he's saying we should pull translations from git master
<knome> ... which we should
<Unit193> How?  As a quilt patch?  Or repack? :/
<knome> i don't know how, but it would be good to have the latest translation state
<Unit193> Maybe it's because I'm English only, but I'd normally say just follow the releases.
<brainwash> Unit193: request a new upstream release :)
<Unit193> Why?  If it's not major bug fixes or new features? :P
<knome> if we are carryinag a delta for package X, won't hurt to update with a new ubuntu version
<brainwash> Noskcaj: should we be worried that this hasn't be merged yet?
<brainwash> been
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-settings/1289411/+merge/212261
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Not yet. We had beta freeze and then a weekend, so not much merge sponsoring
<brainwash> ok
<Noskcaj> But because universe, we can get stuff sponsored till final release freeze (with project lead approval)
<brainwash> right, but we want it fixed as soon as possible, so there is more time left to test it :)
<brainwash> test the final product I mean
<dkessel> elfy: upgrade test saucy -> trusty done
<brainwash> Noskcaj: does the patch header and name matter when adding patches to a package?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, not that much, but it helps to have good info
<brainwash> what prefix should I use for a patch extracted from a git mirror for svn?
<brainwash> abiword :P
<elfy> dkessel: ta :)
<Noskcaj> just svn-
<brainwash> oh, I used the rev number for my PPA upload
<brainwash> so, r12345-
<brainwash> debdiff or bzr branch?
<Noskcaj> whatever you prefer working with.
<brainwash> ok, thanks :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: abiword does no support downstream branches
<Noskcaj> What do you mean?
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword
<brainwash> this is rather complicated
<brainwash> packaging for my PPA is so easy, but officially releasing this is meh
<brainwash> it needs to be done on the debian side
<knome> hey micahg, should we poke the sponsors queue or are you going to upload things?
<Noskcaj> knome, There's enough stuff that a queue poke is needed anyway
<knome> i'm talking about particular things i've asked him to upload; if you think there's something that needs to be in the sponsors queue, feel free to do the paperwork
<knome> and it'd be appreciated if that was "just done"
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-30
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: how are things?
<bluesabre> want to exercise your new ubuntu-upload rights?
<bluesabre> http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-0-6-1-released-td43661.html
<Noskcaj> pretty good
<bluesabre> good to hear :)
<Noskcaj> And yeah, i saw. I'll prepare the upload in debian first, but i'll have it straight to ubuntu
<bluesabre> fantastic
<bluesabre> thanks alot :D
<Noskcaj> I still don't know how to upload stuff to ubuntu though
<Noskcaj> micahg, ^
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I might need a primer from you on uploading packages to debian via PAPT
<bluesabre> need to upgrade catfish to use python3
<Noskcaj> target the package to "unstable", then add it to the RFS in the irc channel
<bluesabre> I need to do something with svn, right?
<Noskcaj> Yeah, all the code is in svn
<Noskcaj> svn co svn+ssh://USERNAME@svn.debian.org/svn/python-apps/ should work
<bluesabre> cool, thanks :)
<jhenke> good morning
<Noskcaj> Why isn't abiword the default to open .docx files?
<bluesabre> greetings everyone
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre just sent an updated catfish package to debian via PAPT.
<starrats> good morning everyone
<bluesabre> good morning starrats
<starrats> No questions today, I promise, lol.  But really enjoying this final Beta, looking forward to gthe release.  Again I say thank you to the ones that have made this build so awesome.
<Justanick> Is it useful to test the daily build for Xubuntu 14.4? Using at the moment Xubuntu 12.4.
<Justanick> Is the daily build feature complete?
<pleia2> Justanick: testing daily images is always useful :)
 * elfy has no idea of the backlog - but completely agrees :)
<Justanick> Should the upgrade function from 12.04 to 14.04 work for xubuntu?
<Justanick> LTS to LTS
 * elfy will get link - 64 or 32 bit Justanick ?
<Justanick> 64Bit
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/65285/testcases/1635/results
<elfy> or http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/65285/testcases/1636/results
<elfy> depending on whether you want to use upgrade manager or can use an image
<jhenke> guys, yesterday I tried beta2 the first time, I assume the problem of wrong keyboard layout used and the wrong background images both in the installer and post install are knonw already?
<elfy> yep 
<Justanick> I think I will use the updater and not the image one. I'm on a xfce ppa for version 4.10. Any risks?
<elfy> not sure tbh - it will disable the ppa I think though
<Unit193> Yes it will.
<elfy> thought so - I tend to wander off from those upgrades and go do something else
<elfy> jhenke: bug 1297170 and bug 1284635
<ubottu> bug 1297170 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper/install uses same" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297170
<ubottu> bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635
<jhenke> thanks for the pointer
<elfy> jhenke: as a matter of curiosity - what keyboard layout did you expect ?
<jhenke> de_DEnodeadkeys
<jhenke> set during installation
<elfy> y6ep
<brainwash> yeah :D
<elfy> brainwash: got a patch for that delete issue of mine - but I've no idea how to actually use it :)
<brainwash> elfy: currently building a package which includes the patch
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<jhenke> I also think it is an ibus problem, in fact I would expect ibus to be absolutely passivbe, as german does not need it normally
<brainwash> it is ibus
<brainwash> which somehow is not able to query the correct layout
<brainwash> so it falls back to en_US
<jhenke> which is very confusing if you want to use the terminal and being used to no us keyboards ^^
<elfy> brainwash: so how do I patch it? sudo patch < foo.patch ?
<brainwash> no need for sudo
<brainwash> you want to patch the git version?
<elfy> nope - whatever I've got here I guess
<elfy> ok - now it wants to know what file to patch - xfdeskop4 ?
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> did you download the source files?
<elfy> xfdesktop I mean
<elfy> no 
<elfy> this is just going to get too voodooy for me ;)
<brainwash> you can test the package from my ppa
<elfy> brb
<elfy> brainwash: did that ppa desktop of yours also have something in it to stop the screen artifacts after login with a nouveau card?
<elfy> and that also seems to have done the job for deleting :)
<elfy> commented on the bug at bugzilla
<brainwash> elfy: no, I just added the delete patch
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> must be coincidental then
<brainwash> are the artifacts always visible after login?
<elfy> yea - for ~10-15 seconds
<elfy> same as the screenshot I added to my bug on it 
<brainwash> mmh, one relog can't tell for sure
<elfy> indeed not :)
<elfy> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/162094730/CAM00034.jpg
<elfy> that stuff - but not at the greeter window now obviously
<brainwash> and deleting 1 file is enough to confirm that the patch works?
<elfy> brainwash: it is on what I've seen
<brainwash> ok :)
<elfy> first delete from desktop on a new session = oh my lord - what is this !!! - so yea - it worked as it did before whatever happened 
<elfy> without fail, a new session was an issue
<brainwash> maybe we could already add the patch to our patch collection for the next xfdesktop4 bug fix release
<elfy> I'd guess that would be useful - the only thing is I've not been able to actually replicate this at all anywhere else, neither has anyone else
<elfy> it is JUST this particular install 
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfdesktop4/git-patches
<brainwash> mmh, right
<elfy> so ... 
<brainwash> but if it gets committed upstream, we could simply pick it
<brainwash> and close your bug report
<brainwash> :)
<elfy> seems it has :p "Thanks for testing it, pushed to master in:..."
<eric_the_idiot> yup, thanks for the quick feedback :)
<elfy> ohhh 
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: awesome! that was a quick fix
<elfy> so you are that eric :) hi eric_the_idiot :D
 * elfy feels slightly ridiculous ... 
<eric_the_idiot> yup, I'm that idiot, hi
<elfy> but blames other people for not telling him who's here from xfce :D
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: do you follow the "wrong wallpaper" lp report?
<eric_the_idiot> wrong wallpaper?
<brainwash> bug 1297170
<ubottu> bug 1297170 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper/install uses same" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297170
<eric_the_idiot> oh no, haven't seen that before
<brainwash> I saw that there is code to migrate the wallpaper settings from 4.10 to 4.11, but we've changed our xuubntu-specifc xfce4-desktop.xml to the 4.11 layout
<brainwash> but we use the generic monitor name "monitor0"
<brainwash> but in most cases a monitor name like "monitor-HDMIblala" is used
<eric_the_idiot> do you have a link to this default setting file?
<brainwash> http://lpaste.net/102023
<brainwash> so it ignores the monitor0 entry and creates a new one (monitor-name) and uses the default wallpaper
<eric_the_idiot> hmm, well it should check if monitor-HDMIblah exists (which it shouldn't)
<eric_the_idiot> then it looks for "%smonitor%d/image-path"
<eric_the_idiot> then finally DEFAULT_BACKDROP
<eric_the_idiot> now I wonder if xfdesktop-settings does the same, hope so :)
<brainwash> is our default .xml file to blame?
<eric_the_idiot> yeah don't try to guess the workspace/monitor just use monitor0/image-path
<eric_the_idiot> and monitor1/image-path
<eric_the_idiot> and that should migrate and xfdesktop will set it on first run
<brainwash> yes, but then we are back to our original problem
<brainwash> xfdesktop-settings showing an empty folder initially
<brainwash> when the user tries to change the wallpaper
<brainwash> I think
<eric_the_idiot> that was caused by a bug in xfdesktop
<brainwash> oh, we can use the 4.10 layout again?
<eric_the_idiot> yeah
<brainwash> ok, thanks :)
<brainwash> I'll test it
<brainwash> one issue remains then, xfdesktop not showing network shares
<eric_the_idiot> ok, that other bug was only triggered when plug names weren't available (i.e. in vmware without the guest additions)
<brainwash> tried nfs shares, no luck
<brainwash> samba shares do not show up either according to another tester
<eric_the_idiot> yeah, that one might be more work
<brainwash> gigolo and thunar do show them
<eric_the_idiot> I'll probably have to switch from using GVolume to GMount to get everything to show
<eric_the_idiot> since GIO is really random about what's a volume
<brainwash> maybe I can get it working (doubt that)
<brainwash> reading the code of thunar and xfdektop takes some time :D
<lderan> elfy, how does this look to you http://paste.ubuntu.com/7180704/ ?
<elfy> lderan: looks ok - except helpfully :) - maybe add a bit about help with bzr being available if people need it 
<elfy> tell me when you've sent it and I will copy it to the LP testers team as well
<lderan> elfy, okay :)
<elfy> lderan: thanks :)
<lderan> no problem at all :)
<lderan> elfy, it is done
<lderan> accidentally spilled a drink on my desk. had to clean it up :P
<elfy> thanks - -testers getting it now
<jhenke> does anybody know if somebody with the nessesary experience is already looking into the ibus bug?
<elfy> yep - someone is looking at it 
<jhenke> elfy thanks
<elfy> it's being looked at by canonical desktop team 
<jhenke> great, I just wonder how that regression was able to get into the normal archive in the first place, somebody should have seen that earlier...
<elfy> indeed 
<elfy> jhenke: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/27/%23ubuntu-release.html#t08:32
<brainwash> xubuntu.. we just ship it :)
<jhenke> it would be nice if people would be more cautious with such fundemental packages like ibus in general...
<jhenke> how nice would be a perfect world
<jhenke> interesting to read the irc converstation, I really hope that is fixed soon, because at least for me that is a (subjectivily) very high impact bug, even more proably for people not understanding linux at alll
<brainwash> we are aware of this, but we only install ibus by default, we don't actually integrate it
<brainwash> if it cannot be fixed in time.. well, we can purge it :D
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: strange, I've reverted the xfce-desktop.xml change and it still falls back to the default Xfce wallpaper
<jhenke> brainwash I am fully aware that packets like ibus are not the responsibility of the xubuntu team, it should just work and if not the ubuntu guys have to make it work
<jhenke> good night folks
<elfy> goodnight jhenke 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-23
<Humster13> Hello world! :)
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<bluesabre> good morning all
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: if you want to pick up any of the merges, go ahead. Otherwise I'll probably get to packaging/uploading tonight (after the beta freeze)
<bluesabre> gotta run again, bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: hi and bye :)
<ochosi> hmpf, the spinner in evince suddenly looks odd (e.g. when rendering a large pdf with pictures, in the top right corner)
<ochosi> can you folks confirm that?
<jjfrv8> ochosi, like this? http://i.imgur.com/wS81VWc.png
<jjfrv8> the toolbar icon spacing doesn't look right, either, in an unmaximized window, neh?
<ochosi> jjfrv8: pretty much, but it looked even more chopped up for me (spinner and "loading..." label not connected)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, yeah, the spinner and "loading" look more disconnected and even different sizes on my desktop monitor. I had to take the screenie on my small laptop screen because it loaded slowly enough there to capture.
<ochosi> i'll see whether i'll have time to look into that / fix that
<flexiondotorg> elfy, When you install a current Xubuntu daily, do you get prompted to remove the install media on restart?
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: was broken for a while, but it should be fixed again now
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Have you tested Xubuntu daily for today? Not fixed in Ubuntu MATE ð
<ali1234> no
<elfy> flexiondotorg: not checked today
<elfy> flexiondotorg: nope - failed that
<flexiondotorg> elfy, OK, so not just me then.
<elfy> nope
<elfy> that's the sort of thing I'd expect to be more or less global
<elfy> bug 1432285
<ubottu> bug 1432285 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Vivid live DVD fails to provide means to eject disc" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432285
<elfy> o/ PaulW2U 
<PaulW2U> hi elfy
<pleia2> elfy: to help me out social media-wise, when you reply to the Beta email, can you quote the entire email and just put the links to the isos at the bottom of the email? then I can share that 2nd email and people have full context
<elfy> pleia2: edit the quote? 
<pleia2> not sure what you mean
<pleia2> but for B1 there was: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010658.html & https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010659.html
<pleia2> if the second could have included the text from the first, it would have been nice :)
<pleia2> *all* the text, because it's hard to share them both with limited characters + space for URLs
<elfy> aah right ok - I'll not snip 
<pleia2> thanks :)
<ochosi> pleia2: btw, i washed the t-shirt yesterday, it'll be dry tonight when i get home then i'll give you my final verdict :)
<pleia2> ochosi: thanks!
<elfy> would it make it easier if I just replied AND edited the quoted reply to include?
<elfy> ochosi: did you tumble dry it ... 
<pleia2> elfy: just bottom posting the links under everything else is fine
<elfy> pleia2: okey doke
<ochosi> elfy: nope, but it's sunny and sorta warm here already
<elfy> it'll not have shrunk then :D
<ochosi> it wasn't wide, just long
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gmusicbrowser/news/20150323T171841Z.html
<elfy> Unit193: did anyone tell you that ochosi isn't setting the next meeting - but you are? 
<elfy> If not - consider that as someone doing it :p
<Unit193> Uhhh.  Lovely..
<ochosi> Unit193: i think i pinged you though :)
<elfy> usually they are 
<Unit193> How about 4am?  That way it's just me and elfy! :D
<elfy> LMAO
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well played
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> Any preferences as to day and time?
<elfy> well - as far as I'm usually concerned Friday's couldn't care time
<elfy> and later suits me otherwise
<elfy> that said - depends on who's running it, which was one of the reason for doing it 
<elfy> and logically if it's in a bit of the cycle when particular people would usefully be there
<Noskcaj> Do we want to fit the last few 4.12 updates in for vivid?
<Unit193> Looks like just xfce4-session and xfdesktop4.
<Noskcaj> and xfpm 1.4.4
<Unit193> Since that brings back a tray icon, wouldn't that be a UIF?
<Noskcaj> maybe
<Noskcaj> And are we going to merge gmusicbrowser or stay with 1.1.13?
<elfy> we're moving to winamp Noskcaj 
<elfy> :p
 * Noskcaj got really scared for .01 seconds
<elfy> :)
<micahg> vlc FTW?
<elfy> micahg: nope - vlc fails badly for me 
<elfy> not in a it doesn't work way ~I add ;)
<fedorafan> oh
<micahg> well, freeze in about 98 minutes, so not much to do before beta 2
<elfy> micahg: indeed
<Noskcaj> micahg, If i package the last 2 4.12 parts, will you have time to upload?
<micahg> before the freeze, no
<micahg> after beta 2, certainly
<micahg> unless there's a specific need to have the pieces in beta 2
<micahg> gmusicbrowser would be interesting if it indeed fixed that crash bug, but that doesn't seem to be the case
<Unit193> Why merge?  It's in Debian, just sync.
<micahg> needs FFe
<micahg> and possible UIFe
<Unit193> Right, I meant sync vs merge.
<micahg> right, would be a sync
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I didn't look at the ubuntu changelog, i just saw ubuntu1
<ochosi> micahg: gmb doesn't need a UIFe, the layout/UI is still the same
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<bluesabre> micahg: glad to see you around more and more :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey Unit193, elfy
<bluesabre> how are things?
<elfy> just winding down now 
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> twiddling thumbs waiting for b2, I've not had a really good dose of omg since b1
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre>  need some broken uploads to brighten your day?
<elfy> you go for your life - I'm off shortly :D
<elfy> so I'd not notice till tomorrow afternoon :)
<bluesabre> heh
<elfy> I have to say, I'll be glad to see wibbly wobbly whinocewos - this cycle seems to have been mostly a round of 'it's not booting guys ... '
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> not "wascally wabbit"?
<elfy> not without a gun ... :D
<Unit193> Wombat.
<bluesabre> whimsical wombat?
<ObrienDave> bluesabre, +1
<elfy> anyway - yawns overtaking the notyawns - night all
<bluesabre> night elfy
<micahg> bluesabre: nice to be able to spend a little time on Ubuntu
<Unit193> I will echo what bluesabre said, btw.
<knome> micahg++
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-24
<Unit193> Wonderful.  So, plymouth-theme-solar also has the problem with entering a password at the plymouth prompt.
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1386005 Ah.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1386005 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Password not accepted graphical boot for encrypted root system" [Critical,Triaged]
<elfy> and there's no way to set keyboard layout ... 
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> bluesabre: so something different for beta 2 :p
<elfy> first report for beta2 is a fail lol
<elfy> and our 32bit image appears to have failed to build http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/vivid/daily-live-20150324.log
<ochosi> elfy: sobering news that is
<ochosi> pleia2, knome: so while i'm personally no big fan of white polos in general, the quality etc of the one shipped to me a few days ago is ok (before and after washing)
<bluesabre> elfy: so we're back to busted images again?
<slickymasterWork> elfy, I won't be able to do any B2 testing
<slickymasterWork> I'll still be living like the travels man life until tomorrow night :P 
<slickymasterWork> s/like/the
<bluesabre> probably won't be on again until late tonight, but if there is anything I need to fix/upload for the images, let me know
<ochosi> yeah, sry, real busy here too :/
<elfy> bluesabre: I'd not even know why they didn't build
<knome> ochosi, right
<knome> ochosi, what i personally thought when i looked at that and the other polos is the quality of the logo
<knome> ochosi, it's a bit... wonky, isn't it?
<ochosi> knome: dunno, i mean it's recognizable and likely more durable than other (non-stitched) solutions
<ochosi> but tbh i haven't really had any first-hand experience with other t-shirts we endorse
<knome> well it isn't really comparable
<elfy> keyboard issue on images seems to be global 
<knome> elfy, :|
<elfy> so that's better than the alternative
<knome> yep
<knome> ochosi, if you put 45 euros to that shirt, would you be happy with the stitch quality?
<ochosi> knome: it costs 45e?
<knome> yeah..
<ochosi> wowza
<knome> that's with shipping (for now)
<ochosi> 45e is quite wonky for a t-shirt in general
<ochosi> no matter what's on it
<knome> well it's a polo
<knome> the t-shirts are cheaper
<elfy> Â£33 is about Â£23 more than I'd pay 
<knome> oh no wait
<knome> i'm telling lies
<knome> it's 24 eurs...
<ochosi> gah, again...
<ochosi> :)
<knome> it was the hoodie that was 45 euros
<ochosi> right, that makes a lot more sense
<knome> yep..
<elfy> that it does :p
<knome> so really, what i'm thinking is...
<knome> even if the polo itself was ok
<ochosi> well it's ok, but 1) i don't like polos and 2) i try not to wear branded clothing in general
<knome> and worth 24 euros
<knome> is the xubuntu logo stitching quality good enough to be worth the price
<knome> and is it good enough for us to consider as an "officially endorsed product"
<knome> the xubuntu logo in the shirt represents xubuntu
<bluesabre> which shirt?
<knome> bluesabre, a sample polo shirt simon has from a vendor who wants to start selling xubuntu polos
<bluesabre> gotcha
 * bluesabre waits for an official xubuntu mug
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<brainvvash> bluesabre, I have no solution for the exo startup notify breakage, so, should the commit be reverted in ubuntu?
<nerdistmonk> is it just me or did something change again, like everytime i open the xfce terminal its not focused...its very annoying.
<brainvvash> nerdistmonk, yes, it's a known regression
<nerdistmonk> the other peeve thats bugged me for months now is even with firefox set as default browser, everytime i click a link in a program, it opens in links2.
<nerdistmonk> brainvvash: well at least they know about it, so that means it will get fixed eventually.
<brainvvash> nerdistmonk, which browser does the terminal command "exo-open --launch WebBrowser" open?
<nerdistmonk> firefox
<brainvvash> and what does "update-alternatives --config x-www-browser" report?
<nerdistmonk> ah
<nerdistmonk> just changed it to firefox
<brainvvash> ah, so not Xfce's fault :)
<nerdistmonk> not my fault either, thats not exactly a command that one sees walking the beaten path
<nerdistmonk> lol
<nerdistmonk> hmmm
<nerdistmonk> the change did not take.
<nerdistmonk> do i need to run that as root or something?
<brainvvash> yes
<brainvvash> it's a global setting
<nerdistmonk> ah
<nerdistmonk> ok
<nerdistmonk> thanks
<nerdistmonk> reboot time for nerdy, brb
<brainvvash> you're welcome
<nerdistmonk> been running "devel" as a daily driver since november of last year, its been very solid so far. (other than wine being its quirky old self, but thats not xubuntu's fault)
<brainvvash> that's great, and feel free to report any bug you encounter on launchpad
<nerdistmonk> i usually just come in here and yell "hey who turned out the lights!" :D
<knome> nerdistmonk, reporting to launchpad is better.
<brainvvash> indeed, this is just an irc channel and not a bug tracker :)
<nerdistmonk> yes knome, but i dont always have time to file formal reports on every little quirk, whereas my xchat is open 24/7 on this machine.
<knome> nerdistmonk, reporting a bug doesn't take much longer than ask about it on this channel
<knome> and when bugs are filed, they are actually trackable and easily findable than in a random irc log
<nerdistmonk> launchpad looks confusing to me, and it requires me to single out a package which may not always be possible for me.
<nerdistmonk> anyways need to reboot, i shall return.
<elfy> micahg: can I take it from those lines in -release that our 32 not build is something we can not worry about? 
<micahg> elfy: so it seems
<elfy> ta
<davmor2> knome: I use email search filter on my BUGS folder does the same on the whole :D
<knome> davmor2, but that's based on the bugs reported, not irc logs :)
<knome> nerdistmonk, you can always file a bug against xubuntu-desktop if you don't know what the target package is
<davmor2> knome: I subscribe to a lot of bugs
<knome> davmor2, i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm saying what you are doing different but still requires the bugs to be filed :)
<davmor2> knome: oh indeed
<knome> bbl
<elfy> pleia2: I assume that's what you wanted
<pleia2> elfy: yes, perfect :) sharing on twitter, fb and g+ now
<elfy> cool
<pleia2> all done, back to conferencing
<knome> slickymaster, i sent a message to dylan about the slideshow translations (mostly for the current release; he merged jack's changes but didn't update the templates so we need to do another upload for that), but also regarding the future; i also mentioned you will be (or have been) in touch with him about it
<Unit193> brainvvash: Where's the bug for the xfwm4 focus issue?
<Unit193> Bah, right after asking I see it, 11545.
<Unit193> Not quite the same, and that version worked for me, but..
<elfy> evening Unit193 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Hrm, looking into parsedatetime still?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, What about it? I've missed/forgotten a bunch of stuff recently
<Noskcaj> actually having homework from school makes things harder
<brainvvash> Unit193, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11743
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11743 in Helpers "exo-open --launch TerminalEmulator inactive window opens" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> Noskcaj: lp 1302963, there was another bug that pointed out the exact commits that would fix it, but didn't see it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302963 in parsedatetime (Ubuntu) "Calendar() class can not be initialized" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302963
<Unit193> Fix released = utopic, "Supported" trusty has no fix.  gcalcli depends on that, and I was and have been considering a SRU for that one as well.
<Noskcaj> i've got school holidays in 2 weeks, but i'll see if i can get it before then
<Unit193> Oh heh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parsedatetime/+bug/1302963/comments/9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302963 in parsedatetime (Ubuntu) "Calendar() class can not be initialized" [Medium,Fix released]
<Unit193> Great ,thanks.
<Unit193> brainvvash: Thank you.
<Unit193> brainvvash: You helped me, so https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/commit/trunk?h=packages/exo&id=f7c3f8b27e4da2eae5a3fff621ff2095d5b99364
<brainvvash> Unit193, ubuntu should do the same
<Unit193> (1408649 being mine.)
<dkessel> brainwash: was it you who showed me that git commit for xterminal so xubuntu will be able to start byobu (launcher with spaces) from a panel again?
<dkessel> If so, is there a chance of getting that fix into 15.04? Pretty please ;)
<dkessel> Or brainvvash ^
<brainvvash> I don't know, can you find the bugzilla report?
<brainvvash> dkessel, and I guess that a launchpad report is required too, so that a fix can be prepared for ubuntu
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-25
<pleia2> and reminded the social media-verse about stickers re: beta
<knome> mm
<knome> hai pl
<knome> pleia2 too
<knome> tabfail
<Pwnna> can anyon reproduce this?
<Pwnna> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1436130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1436130 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Maximize window when displays are stacked ontop of each other uses space underneath the top panel" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> morning
<elfy> image installing properly now - but you can't remove media once finished bug 1432285
<ubottu> bug 1432285 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Vivid live DVD fails to provide means to eject disc" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432285
<Unit193> Oh, that's awesome for another reason, now I can file bugs against it, since I have an account and all.  Of course, there's still the fact I don't use it, but alas.
<elfy> file bugs against what?
<Unit193> xfdashy, it moved from github to Xfce's infra, so it's in their git and bugzilla. \o/
<elfy> oic
<elfy> forgot I had that here - don't use it either
<Unit193> I got one for a bug ochosi convinced me to file, still hasn't been fixed.  Only opened in 2013 so young in terms of Xfce.
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hrm, how about moving daily builds to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa to clear staging out for, well, staging?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, probably a good idea for most of the daily builds we have in there
<bluesabre> feel free to do the honors :)
<bluesabre> brainvvash: I'll take a crack at the bug this evening to see if I figure anything out
<flexiondotorg> Hello guys.
<flexiondotorg> Just wondering how your testing is going?
<knome> flexiondotorg, please ask on #ubuntu-quality and see the tracker results
<flexiondotorg> knome, OK. I'll go then. Was just interested to have a chat with the guys here to see if there is anything common in our testing.
<knome> we try to keep the common stuff to the quality channel for the benefit of everybody
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: haven't gotten round to testing at all, too much work atm :/
<ochosi> what i heard was mixed
<ochosi> but as knome said, the tracker should bear some insights
 * flexiondotorg wants to acknowledge ochosi but is scared off by knome 
<knome> flexiondotorg, no need to be scared of me... i won't bite you
<knome> ...or if i do, it won't hurt
<knome> except maybe a little
<drc> You do know that "knome" is Finnish for "big fuzzy cudly teddy=bear", right?
<Unit193> Hah.
<slickymasterWork> odd, always thought that knome was Finnish to polar bear
<elfy> anyone any idea why we don't test encrypted installs? 
<elfy> also anyone any idea why we don't test installs from the livesession? 
<Unit193> I think the general idea was something about Mainbuntu testing the first, and since it doesn't really have anything to do with DEs.  Or, just lower manpower so they get ignored.  We/I used to cycle which one is picked.  Don't test the live session?  If we're supposed to do it from the install screen with no DE, I've always done them wrong.
<elfy> lol
<elfy> install's are from the Install option at the second menu (one we had black background)
<elfy> and I can understand the why not encrypt - just thought I'd ask
<elfy> the only issue being that while Main tests it - they don't care about milestone till Final Beta
<Unit193> Well, that core upgrade task I used encryption, because making it as hard for myself is awesome.  Found the bug where you couldn't enter your pass on the splash screen. :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> failing install testcases because install media eject fail
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I've marked two as failed also, elfy 
<elfy> yep saw
<elfy> just sorting some sticks out to test on h/w
<elfy> jjfrv8: you passed 64bit entire disk on h/w - did it ask to eject media? 
<drc> Yesterday's daily did not, haven't tried today's.
<elfy> afaik it should fail to do that 
<drc> Tomorrow is Final Beta, no?
<elfy> tomorrow is final beta release to the world - today is testing it 
<drc> So, today's (really yesterday's, Date/Time stamp = 23.54) daily is Final Beta...unless things go really wrong?
<elfy> drc: notwithstanding any rebuilds - there's been one already and I'm expecting another
<elfy> I expect that one to be not released drc 
<drc> OK, I'll just wait for Final Beta tomorrow :)
<elfy> :)
<drc> or maybe 16.04 :)
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> elfy: the media-eject problem is global though, right?
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> ochosi: you'll be pleased to know that afaik there are no Xubuntu issues that'll cause fails or rebuilds this time :)
<ochosi> indeed, that's great :)
<elfy> I know I am;)
<ochosi> go team!
<ochosi> as soon as i finish my work tonight i'll try to sync b2 and do a test
<elfy> I've done some vm and a h/w test 
<ochosi> unfortunately i have a really busy week until tomorrow
<ochosi> stupid deadlines
<elfy> ochosi: not sure there's much point tbh 
<elfy> you can look - but it's possible we'll see rebvuild anyway 
<elfy> that said - maybe a look to make sure there are no elliptical circles - I'd not see those :)
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> those are what i'm after primarily ;)
<elfy> ochosi: just got an update to gmb - crash on quit with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()
<ochosi> oh ok?
<ochosi> you mean a new crash?
<elfy> seems so
<elfy> and why does this thing randomly play tracks from random albums as default 
<ochosi> hm, maybe we've had that issue / discussion before
<ochosi> tbh i dunno right off the top of my head
<ochosi> i wouldn't mind actively searching for alternatives, but so far no apparent ones have come to mind
<elfy> brainwash reported that in december
<elfy> no good asking me for an alternative 
<Unit193> clementine.
<ochosi> Unit193: again with the qt?
<elfy> Unit193: :p
<Unit193> ochosi: That'd be elfy's choice. :P
<ochosi> yeah yeah, heard that one over and over by him :)
<Unit193> Nightingale is the one that's installed (though yes, not used.)
<elfy> ochosi: indeed :p hence it'sno good asking me ... 
<Unit193> https://socialcompare.com/en/comparison/linux-open-source-audio-players - http://www.slant.co/topics/2016/~what-are-the-best-music-players-for-linux - http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/AudioPlayer
 * elfy goes looking for a new name to him
<ochosi> wat, 2016??
<ochosi> maybe quodlibet would deserve another look
<ochosi> anyway, i'll think about this again when we're starting our engines for 15.10
<elfy> ha - found one :p
<ochosi> hm, it's actually quite good (first impression)
<ochosi> quite complex though, shitload of plugins
<elfy> quodlibet? 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> I'm happy enough to look at it in anger 
<ochosi> as long as you don't look back in anger ;)
<elfy> oh I never do that nowadays :p
<ochosi> the UI takes a bit of getting used to
<ochosi> the play togglebutton is a bit cumbersome
<ochosi> and the hidden progress-scale during playback too
<elfy> still scanning ... 
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> ignores xpsf playlists
<Unit193> elfy: Moved the daily builds out of staging, that way they won't conflict and it should be more clear which is being tested.
<elfy> into? 
<elfy> Unit193: ^^ 
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages daily builds.
<elfy> ok - ta
<elfy> and I guess I should grab that one - then I'd be in the same state as before
<elfy> ochosi: I'll see how I get on with it on a day when music on for 16 hours 
<Unit193> OK, just keeping you up to date.  Staging is now as the title says, stuff staged to go into Xubuntu.
<elfy> Unit193: yep - makes sense 
<elfy> but the shimmer daily stuff staying put I assume
<Unit193> Yeah, https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily is already a PPA.
<Unit193> s/PPA/daily/
<elfy> yep
<elfy> so - only xfpm in daily ? 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Disabled the daily xfpm for utopic and trusty, upower stuff.
<Unit193> (As you can see, also fixed the build.)
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> now I'm back and refreshed I can see I should grab that ppa too :D
<elfy> ok, I assume that I'm now up to date
<elfy> looking like the eject issue will stay - so carry on testing or not as the case maybe
<elfy> as it stands I'm happy enough as long as ochosi doesn't find elliptical circles and he's happy
<ochosi> yeah, need a few more mins until i can get down to testing
<elfy> I should be able to get a few in tomorrow early afternoon on hardware
<elfy> and there could be rebuilds yet ... 
<elfy> I'll worry about it tomorrow if I see 'rebuilding' :)
<gnumbknuts> Unit193: Hi, you may remember me talking the other day about GMB on #xubuntu, and I read now on this channel that you are discussing alternative audio player. Well I removed GMB and then installed Decibel http://decibel.silent-blade.org/ . You may want to consider this player for inclusion into Xubuntu ? It is very light-weight, the lastest version 1.08 can even play .wav (PCM) files, which suits me fine.
<Unit193> !info decibel vivid
<ubottu> Package decibel does not exist in vivid
<Unit193> !info decibel-audio-player vivid
<ubottu> decibel-audio-player (source: decibel-audio-player): simple and nice music player for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.06-3 (vivid), package size 243 kB, installed size 1496 kB
<Unit193> Depends: python:any (>= 2.6.6-7~), python-gtk2 (>= 2.6.3-2), python-glade2 (>= 2.6.3-2), python-mutagen (>= 1.10), python-gst0.10 (>= 0.10), python-dbus, gstreamer0.10-plugins-base, gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
<knome> latest release on 2011
<Unit193> It's not up to me.
<knome> (only, at least)
<gnumbknuts> 1.08 is not in the Ubuntu repos, but I installed from the source. it has a few bugs but works fine
<knome> but 1.08 is from 2011, it's 4 years old.
<knome> that doesn't promise a lot.
<drc> and still has bugs?
<knome> likely.
<genii> Yes, that's not encouraging
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/decibel-audio-player
<knome> 50 open bugs
<knome> and 4 for the ubuntu package
<gnumbknuts> Wow! I didn't realise it had so many bugs. Then perhaps it is not a good idea :(
<drc> What brought about the search for a replacement for GMB?
<ochosi> gnumbknuts: if it were *that* easy we might have found an alternative already
<ochosi> drc: just some issues, mostly a bug in 15.04 that makes it crash frequently upon closing it
<drc> bummer :) (yes, I've never been a fan of GMB :)
<nerdistmonk> <<loves smplayer
<ochosi> also, seems like default apps (like music players) are highly contested/controversial subjects, almost every cycle ppl complain about *something*
<ali1234> gmb is pretty bad though
<drc> But the dev can't so anything (iirc, he's always been very cooperative?)
<gnumbknuts> drc: I needed a player that could play .wav(PCM) format, as much of my audio library was ripped from vinyl.
<ali1234> how can i make it sort tracks by album and then track number by default?
<ochosi> drc: i think he's looking at it, haven't had time to follow up
<ochosi> anyway, i'm out
<ochosi> night everyone
 * drc really soesn't care what the defaults are, he'll just replace them with Exaile and Smplayer.
 * bluesabre is grateful to Unit193
<gnumbknuts> One dislike I have about most audio-players (Windows included),  is the way in which they try or organise  the library. All I want is for the browser to show me exactly the same taxonomic layout as I have sorted the file on the HDD.
<knome> gnumbknuts, this is not the channel to discuss that though
<ali1234> decibel does not appear to support mpris, which means it won't work with the sound indicator
<gnumbknuts> knome: Yes you are right , sorry, I shall refrain.
<ali1234> wait, it does support it
<knome> ali1234, but it's pretty bad though *grins*
<ali1234> it *looks* better than gmb in screen shots
<knome> i disagree.
<ali1234> gmb could almost be a KDE app it's that badly laid out
<knome> ali1234, ok, you can stop now.
<ali1234> seriously though, the reason why i complain so much is because of dev who constantly claim that nobody ever complained about their software before
<ali1234> "everyone else thinks it is fine"
<ali1234> so i complain loud and often in order to prevent that weak excuse
<knome> but your complaints are in the wrong channel.
<ali1234> no point complaining where there's no developers
<knome> nobody here is the gmb developer
<ali1234> but everybody here chooses the default applications
<knome> does that imply they think there is nothing wrong with them?
<ali1234> no, it does imply they think that the defaults are the best available though
<knome> but they've said they aren't
<knome> and that they are open for all suggestiong
<ali1234> suggestions don't work, everyone will suggest something different
<knome> that doesn't mean they want to hear how much wrong somebody else thinks there is wrong with gmb
<knome> so whining about the current default does?
<ali1234> i vote for whatever is the second most popular choice after gmb
<knome> your concern is heard.
<Unit193> There has been major complaints in the past against gmb, first chance to actually get rid otf it. :D
<knome> Unit193, not really the first chance
<knome> Unit193, it has been discussed before
<knome> but nobody who supports the alternatives has ever been willing to do a real application comparison
<knome> and explain why X is better than gmb
<Unit193> Heh, right...
<knome> simply mocking gmb doesn't count as arguments.
<genii> There's criticism, and then there's constructive ctiticism.
<genii> meh typos
<drc> OK, just for the sake of argument (in the purest sense), what are the criteria the -team is looking for in an audio player?  Serious question, I don't know.
<knome> drc, it's been laid out before...
<drc> ok, where can I look?
<knome> drc, will you propose an audio player and do a thorough comparison?
<knome> or are you just making me dig up the link once again?
<ali1234> is there a list of features that any candidate must have?
<knome> ali1234, will you propose an audio player and do a thorough comparison?
<ali1234> at least then we could rule out a few
<ali1234> what basis should i compare them on?
<knome> ali1234, the required features are in a wikipage and they have also been posted on the development mailing list several times
<drc> knome: This is the latest I can find on the wiki  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/DefaultMediaPlayer
<drc> is it still valid?
<knome> yes
<drc> Thank you.
<ali1234> mpris support should be on that list
<knome> ali1234, feel free to set up a new wikipage for W
<ali1234> that doesn't seem to be possible yet
<knome> just create a page that follows the template and you are fine. you can replace the codename with W for now
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-26
<jjfrv8> elfy, I never get the eject media prompt so I could not in good conscience fail it ;)
<ali1234> done https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<knome> ali1234, gmb can and does search without affecting playlist.
<ali1234> i can't figure out how to do it, i doubt most users could either
<knome> ali1234, use the search bar.
<ali1234> i did, it didnt work
<knome> how didn't it work?
<ali1234> the search bar literally does nothing
<knome> how come it does for me?
<ali1234> it also does it incredibly slowly
<ali1234> i dunno, are you sure you are using the same gmb that i am?
<knome> gmb 1.1.13 in xubuntu 14.10
<ali1234> i'm still on 14.04
<knome> it worked on 14.04 as well
<ali1234> i'm sure :)
 * micahg can build a backport of a newer version if needed
<knome> micahg, no need to, the feature works, i'm 100% certain of that.
<micahg> ok
<knome> ali1234, the only thing in that list that gmb objectively can't do is streams and podcasts
<ali1234> maybe it can do all that stuff; a normal person would have absolutely no idea HOW though, because the UI is so awful
<knome> ali1234, and i don't think "attempts to ape other players..." is very objective.
<ali1234> it's entirely objective; see the rhythmbox layout - it doesn't work at all
<ali1234> it's like the developer looked at a screenshot of rhythmbox when making it
<ali1234> it *looks* like rhythmbox and that is all
<knome> ali1234, see - gmb doesn't try to ape any other players... the various layouts are provided for people who *want* gmb to look something else
<ali1234> i would settle for a layout that actually works
<ali1234> unfortunately none of them do
<knome> ali1234, so which layout are you using?
<ali1234> right now i'm using exaile layout
<ali1234> search bar still doesn't work
<ali1234> and no way to browse albums/artists
<knome> please don't judge the application by non-default configuration
<ali1234> the default layout is completely unintelligable
<ali1234> i literally can't figure out how to use it
<knome> i'm sorry.
<ali1234> i had to switch layout just to make it play music
<ali1234> and i can't even figure out how to go back to the default
<ali1234> seriously, which layout is supposed to be default?
<knome> "Shimmer Desktop"
<ali1234> okay, that's basically the same as banshee/rhythmbox
<knome> well... okay?
<knome> does that make gmb "bad"
<ali1234> no
<knome> i thought you thought so...
<knome> i'm sorry if i was mistaken.
<ali1234> no, it's bad because it has the layout of banshee/rhythmbox style browser, except it doesn't work
 * knome breathes slowly in and out
<ali1234> click on an album in the rightmost pane
<ali1234> the artist pane should list only artists on that album
<ali1234> it does not
<ali1234> X
<knome> in what way "should" ?
<ali1234> in the way that that's how rhythmbox and banshee work
<drc> remember "big fuzzy and cudly teddy-bear"
<ali1234> and it's also how whatever they copied works
<knome> ali1234, does that mean that's the "right" way?
<ali1234> yes
<knome> because?
<ali1234> because it is better
<knome> that's not a rationale
<ali1234> i will admit that in this particular layout the search bar actually works!
<ali1234> i do wonder why it works in this layout, but not others
<knome> the other layouts aren't maintained by us, i have no idea.
<ali1234> you can also browse without changing the current song
<ali1234> that doesn't work in other layouts either
<ali1234> can we remove all the borken layouts?
<knome> that's totally open for discussion
<knome> i don't have anything against that.
<ali1234> this actually isn't bad
<knome> ok, now that most of it is sorted out...
<knome> the list view panes you describe
<knome> are designed to work like that
<knome> if you want to browse artists by album, add an album tab in the first pane
<ali1234> wat
<knome> i agree that's not the first thing the new user thinks of, but otoh, it's not the first requirement either
<ali1234> there aren't any tabs in this layout
<knome> right-click the pane and select "show tabs"
<ali1234> can i get rid of this pane entirely?
<knome> no, the panes in that view are set by the layout
<ali1234> why do the panes look different when i set them to the same tab?
<ali1234> and why do they show different search results?
<ali1234> why is this so confusing?
<knome> ok, calm down
<knome> the panes are cumulatively limiting the search results
<knome> when you select something from the leftmost pane, the middle and rightmost pane are filtered with that selection
<ali1234> that's super confusing
<knome> to you, sounds like it, to me, not really
<knome> now tell me
<ali1234> how is a typical user going to react to this?
<ali1234> *i* could probably get used to this, my parents? no chance
<knome> i haven't seen many complaints about it; that doesn't mean everybody loves it, but i don't think everybody thinks it's broken either
<knome> different people have different resources to adapt to new things
<knome> if your parents love media player X, they should definitely use that
<ali1234> my parents don't have an opinion on media players
<knome> i was just using them as example since you did that as well.
<holstein> trainging can be necessary, regardless..
<holstein> training*
<ali1234> so here is how it should work
<ali1234> there should be one pane with albums and one pane with artists
<ali1234> no tabs
<ali1234> and each pane should filter all the others
<knome> in your opinion
<ali1234> not this weird sequence thing
<ali1234> me and steve jobs yes :)
<knome> i don't see a usecase where i select an album and then see the artist for that album
<ali1234> you select an album which is "various artists"
<ali1234> the artist pane lists only artists from that album
<ali1234> you select and artist and then select "all album" in the album pane
<knome> granted, you found a usecase for that
<ali1234> now you see all songs by that artist
<knome> i don't have a lot of collections, that's not useful for me
<ali1234> the main point here is that my system does everything that your system can do, is simpler to use, and can do more things
<knome> that's possible.
<knome> but please don't tell gmb "can't do that"
<knome> or the other thing
<knome> if it can...
<knome> as you noticed, with the default layout, most things worked ootb
<ali1234> it can't do it in any of the layouts included...
<ali1234> yeah, i will give you that
<ali1234> the default isn';t quite as bad as i remembered
<knome> but really, the other thing is that gmb has lots of features that aren't necessarily the most important ones, or announced very loudly
<knome> for example, google styled search
<knome> eg. type: "year:2010" in the search bar
<ali1234> okay, wiki updated
<knome> the next question is that whether the filtering in panes is really something that a media player needs to do - especially if it's a core requirement....
<ali1234> yes, it is
<knome> for you
<knome> for me, nope
<knome> for a regular user? i don't know
<ali1234> if they don't filter there is no point in them even being there
<ali1234> then you've just got a flat list of every song
<knome> the panes filter in gmb - in one direction
<ali1234> only in some layouts
<ali1234> in the rhythmbox layout they don't filter at all
<knome> let's keep the discussion on the default layout we're using
<knome> because we still aren't maintaining the other ones
<ali1234> filtering in one direction is better than nothing, but it's still awkward
<knome> awkward or not, everybody can judge that themself
<ali1234> they can judge it, but they can't do anything about it...
<knome> as much as they can't do anything about the things other media players do in an unnatural way for them
<holstein> sounds like you have a great idea, ali1234 .. you can always make and release your own linux.. based on as much of xubuntu/ubuntu as you like
<ali1234> in this case there is something to be said for opinionated design
<holstein> what i typically do, for my folks, or friend/family.. i'll setup things as i think they want.. and test.. and i'll still end up swapping things out here and there
<ali1234> what is "intersection mode"?
<knome> i thought we were looking at the core, required features
<ali1234> it doesn't seem to be a very good way to pick a media player, since they all have pretty much the same features
<knome> ali1234, then shouldn't we just keep gmb, because it has the same features as all others and does its job?
<ali1234> no, because it has an extremely confusing UI
<knome> that's your opinion.
<holstein> its easy to swap out
<ali1234> i am not easily confused by user interfaces
<holstein> i bet you can go upstream and see if you can contribute to a "ui team" or whatever
<ali1234> "intersection mode" does not appear to do anything
<ali1234> holstein: i doubt it since the first thing i would do is remove 90% of it
<holstein> ali1234: sure.. fork it, then
<ali1234> then we can have yet another option to discuss
<Unit193> https://xkcd.com/927/
<holstein> well, "we" wont.. since, i just install vlc, personally and dont care to try and make anybuntu have it by default..
<holstein> i just add what i prefer.. works nice
<knome> holstein, please, that isn't constructive eitehr
<ali1234> i just clicked on "find songs with same artists" and now i've lost all my library and no idea how to get it back
<ali1234> when i click that it should select "all albums" in the album pane and that artist in the artist pane
<ali1234> but instead it removes everything from both panes
<ali1234> "jump to playing song" isn't anywhere in the shimmer layout
<ali1234> gonna have to turn that one back to an X since we're only considering that layout...
<knome> yes sir.
<knome> i would think it would be more productive if you actually focused on other apps you don't per se hate to keep yourself calm and productive
<knome> well that was a lot of productivity in one sentence, but that's what we're really after
<ali1234> well i already added a row for rhythmbox
<ali1234> if i added a row for banshee that would also be ticks all the way along
<knome> is this some kind of game?
<knome> "if i added..."
<ali1234> i'm just attempting to do what you asked
<drc> The question I have is:  Is the wiki page that ali1234 added and the criteria listed there now the official criteria for audio player criteria?
<drc> Becasue he added a bit from the last (Gridcube's ?) page.
<ali1234> yeah i used the old page as a starting point
<knome> it's ali1234's vision of the requirements
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> i what?
<knome> not necessarily the final requirements the team will base the decisions
<micahg> banshee is a non-starter, it's in mono
<ali1234> noted.
<Unit193> Ouch.
<micahg> though I do happen to really like it :)
<ali1234> that's why i didn't bother adding it before
<Unit193> Nightingale! :P
<Unit193> Oh dang, wrong channel.
<knome> Unit193, you're recorded.
<micahg> 3rd copy of mozilla core code?
<knome> i'm sure Unit193 was joking.
<Unit193> Yes, though it's a decent player.
<drc> GridCube: I was referencing this old wiki page  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/DefaultMediaPlayer
<GridCube> drc, :) yes thanks
<drc> And you were listed a "Assignee"
<GridCube> yes, from the time when i bothered to try to convince people 
<ali1234> who wrote the rant about gmb on that page? it wasn't me :)
<GridCube> i just dont see any sense to it anymore
<ali1234> i can guess who added the rebuttals
<knome> ali1234, this isn't a guessing game
<ali1234> yay i got my library back
<ali1234> you have to right click in one of the panes and then click on "set as primary filter"
<Unit193> Also, Shimmer set a layout for gmb, I'm sure that'd be open for improving?
<knome> definitely.
<ali1234> shimmer desktop is a pretty good effort. could do with a big "clear all searches" button though
<knome> ali1234, try the x at the search box
<ali1234> not obvious enough. search box is empty, i wouldn't expect that x to do anything
<holstein> nothing, at all?
<ali1234> x on a text field means clear the text in the field
<holstein> i see those on touch UI's a lot.. maybe thats the inspiration
<GridCube> ali1234, you are expecting gmb to make sense,  you should already stop doing that
<ali1234> if there's no text in the field already
<ali1234> then what would it do?
<ali1234> fact is, it does actually reveal all my library again, but it's totally unexpected
<Unit193> Wait, no text in the field and you're expected to know the X clears searches (that haven't been made, because nothing shown?)
<GridCube> ali1234, because you are not seeing your library, you are seeing a playlist
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> GridCube: no, actually i'm not
<GridCube> yes, yes you do
<ali1234> the playlist is another thing entirely, and it is empty because i never use playlists
<ali1234> shall i make a video?
<GridCube> no, theres where you are wrong
<GridCube> you are always using playlists on gmb
<ali1234> so there's playlists and also a queue?
<GridCube> yes
<ali1234> and they are different?
<GridCube> who knows
<ali1234> no, i'm pretty sure what i am seeing is a filtered list of songs
<GridCube> anyway i said several times i would not get to bash on gmb away
<ali1234> and then i can drag them on to the queue
<GridCube> so ill stop
<GridCube> because it makes no sense
<knome> GridCube, as ali1234 said, playlists are a completely different thing
<ali1234> the problem is that there's no feedback between the top panes and the filter view
<ali1234> often you can have a search in effect with no visual indication at all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heh, sure.  Glad to help.  Considered moving the branches to xubuntu-dev/+junk, but wasn't sure you wanted that and it'd confuse you too.
<bluesabre> Unit193: we can do that, sure
<bluesabre> you're good at cleaning things up and reducing/hiding cruft
<Unit193> I'm randomly OCD..
<Unit193> But, thanks.
<Ethan> Hello
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> elfy: seems like the eject media bug is fixed
<Unit193> cyphermo attempted one.
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=a6dd7d7171367f0e9af29152ccd1bfc0e6279b09 oooh.
<type3> I'm a university student and a Xubuntu user and I'd like to contribute. How can I learn to help?
<ochosi> type3: hello and welcome. this is a good starting point: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<type3> Thank you. I'm getting started with that now
<type3> ochosi:
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> you can always ask for help here though if you get stuck
<type3> this is fun though I haven't used an irc in several years
<ochosi> one of the more important things you have to ask yourself while going through these pages is what it is you want/can do
<type3> I know I want to develop. I've been getting a lot better with C and want to use it somewhere outside the classroom where I can help other people
<Unit193> That'd likely be more with upstream Xfce.
<type3> Is there anything I can do to help xubuntu directly?
<type3> I woudn't mind checking that out though
<Unit193> Yey!  Just purged gst0.10, poor xfburn was the only thing caught in the crossfire.
<ochosi> type3: some of us contribute to xfce directly, which makes the most sense if you wanna do some c coding. what you'll definitely need to learn though is gtk/glib along with c
<ochosi> so yeah, we can still help you with getting into that though
<type3> ochosi: that sounds like it would be a lot of fun actually, I'm sold
<Unit193> Now I really want to bribe Sean to at least look at removing gst0.10 from Xfburn. :P
<ochosi> what is happening at the moment @xfce is that we've started porting the apps from gtk2 to gtk3 for the next stable release
<Unit193> type3: Which of course ends up helping out Xubuntu a lot.
<ochosi> Unit193: i'd say bountysource is your friend ;) maybe we should really consider running fund-raising campaigns for things like these...
<Unit193> Not really, I never use Xfburn.  I'd just like it off the ISO.
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> what's the status quo of pidgin?
<Unit193> I've been testing it a couple days no issues (at least crashes), and considering Fedora is using the same patch I am, I would really like to see this in wombat.
<Unit193> I could look into popping it into staging, but it's not really Xubuntu specific.
<type3> I really appreciate the help. I'm getting started with gtk2 now
<Unit193> ochosi: Basically, gmb is already fixed in Wombat, Pidgin easily could be, and that's all the others for us.  Would be pretty cool IMO.
<ochosi> type3: another hint is to start with a small app, just start looking into the code. also: don't get into gtk2 too deep, we're moving *away* from that :)
<ochosi> Unit193: totally agreed
<type3> ochosi: ha I understand, it just took me awhile to find something up to date
<type3> Finally got one on the gnome site. Again, thank you for the help, I'm going to keep working at it but I have to sign off
<ochosi> sure, hf and ttyl
<type3> ttyl
<Noskcaj> ochosi, upstream xfburn dev on gst1.0 support "No progress yet. It's on my radar, but I've been pretty busy recently again."
<Noskcaj> so if sean doesn't get it, it will hopefully be done for 15.10 anyway
<ochosi> hm, i wouldn't rely on squisher entirely
<Unit193> "On the radar" in terms of Xfce can mean a couple months to a few years.
<ochosi> i haven't seen him around a lot lately
<elfy> ochosi: so new image, vbox install - screen corruption at finish no idea what's going on - kill the machine and it does remove the install media
<ochosi> hmm
<elfy> that said - not our issue still :)
<ochosi> yeah :)
<elfy> just doing kvm now
<ochosi> well not *only* our issue :]
<elfy> yea - implication being we don't have to fix it - totally our issue :p
<elfy> unless it is only seen with xub - not got time to double check that 
<elfy> kvm - hangs on restart 
<elfy> hardware - bug 1436715
<ubottu> bug 1436715 in casper (Ubuntu) "Vivid DVD fails to reboot or shutdown w/o hard reset" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436715
<elfy> if people get the chance to at least smoketest the 32 bit stuff that would help
<bluesabre> ochosi, Noskcaj, Unit193: I could probably work on that port
<bluesabre> not sure how difficult it'd be, so no promises
<Unit193> Would using mencoder or something else work better?  libav?
<bluesabre> porting gstreamer versions is not particularly difficult, it just depends on how much custom stuff there is in there
<bluesabre> Unit193: I only know gstreamer :)
<ochosi> not sure it's more fun porting to something new/different than just to a different version of the same thing
<Unit193> I was thinking one might work better. :P
<Unit193> How would one turn off smooth scrolling in mousepad?
<bluesabre> better than xfburn? its the most reliable burner for me
<bluesabre> Unit193: not sure its possible, thats baked into gtk3
<bluesabre> there is a way to disable gtk3 animations
<bluesabre> somewhere
<ochosi> maybe an xsetting
<ochosi> or a gtk setting
<ochosi> but yeah, use the gtk2 version if you dislike that sort of scrolling
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings--gtk-enable-animations
<bluesabre> so maybe in xsettings/Gtk
<bluesabre> EnableAnimations
<bluesabre> ?
<Unit193> Yep, thanks.  Found the same page based on your comment.  Too bad you can't delete entries with that tool too though.
<bluesabre> oh, that did work?
<Unit193> Looks like it at least.
<bluesabre> neat
<ochosi> at some point we have to consider which of these options to expose in xfce4-settings UI
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> lunchtime (finally)
<bluesabre> guessing this has already been seen, but xfdesktop is drawing icons on ubiquity
<Unit193> Uhhh..?
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/dWGB0Bb.png
<Unit193> Very nice...
<bluesabre> also had the installer freeze once it finished and I pressed ok, never saw the end terminal
<bluesabre> for those interested, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1436816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1436816 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity freezes the UI when intstallation is finished and Restart is clicked" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<elfy> dupe of bug 1436715 probably
<ubottu> bug 1436715 in casper (Ubuntu) "Vivid DVD fails to reboot or shutdown w/o hard reset" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436715
<jjfrv8> elfy, 32-bit installs fine on my laptop and desktop.
<jjfrv8> I use UNetbootin to make my sticks and I've never seen an eject media prompt when using them to install on hardware.
<ubuntu-studio> Kak izmenit yazik v ubuntu studio&
<ubuntu-studio> ?
<GridCube> please speak in english
<ali1234> "jump to playing song" doesn't work in any player that i have tested so far
<drc> ali1234:  Jumping in the middle here without a recent log...have you tried Exaile?  It's called "Show Playing Track" (CTRL-J :) and it just worked for me.
<ali1234> yes, it didn't work
<ali1234> test results are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<drc> interesting.
<ali1234> oh look, a bug in the wiki
<ali1234> the footnote numbers don't match up correctly
<drc> ali1234: JUst a suggestion, but you might want to add a column (or add to notes) stating which version is being tested.
<ali1234> good idea
<drc> All I know is that the "Jump" options works for me in Exaile 3.3.2 (I know it's not the latest, I boot iin a bit to a distro that I know has a later version).
<ali1234> i'll be reporting bugs for everything that doesn't work, with videos
<ali1234> after i've reported the bug in the wiki
<drc> actually, I think I'll grab the latest daily (seing as how the beta2 isn't out yet) and try Exaile there.
<drc> seeing as how that's the version that'll be the version shipping.
<drc> nah, doesn't support MPRIS, why bother?
<ali1234> maybe it does in the newest version?
<drc> Pretty sure, in my playing with earlier dailies, that it didn't show up in the volume applet/widget, so I'm guessing no (but you're correct, I'll try it in today's daily)
<ali1234> i'm upgrading my vm then i'll retest all this on the newest versions (while recording videos)
<drc> Google says there is a third party plugin that supports MPRIS2...will check that out.
<elfy> jump to track works in clementine :p
 * drc just stands here on the corner by a dark alley, looks around and starts whistling...while he waits for some one to sidle up and whisper "Hey buddy, you wanna buy a beta2, real cheap".
<elfy> oops
<elfy> ochosi: you any issues with marking images ready? 
<elfy> I've not
<elfy> and everytime I say anything re this - -release starts discussing moving the goal posts :p
<knome> heh
<Guest15376> ali1234: Now in daily, can you place that URL for the comparison again?
<ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<Guest15376> thanks
<Guest15376> OK, time for a little remedial education here...MPRIS is what causes an audio player to show up in the panel volume applet/widget/whatever, correct?
<ali1234> that is one thing it does yes
<ali1234> and the main reason we need it
<Guest15376> OK then Exaile is Right Out :(
<micahg> I thought exaile gained that support at some point :(
<Guest15376> There is a plugin but doesn't appear to work...let me check again
<Guest15376> MPRIS plugin checked, doesn't not show up on Volume.
<Guest15376> Won't stop me from using it, but won't make the default player short list.
<ali1234> might be a too old version of mpris
<Guest15376> Yeah, doesn't say 1 or 2
<Guest15376> but iirc, it <never> has intergrated
<Guest15376> Interesting Quod Libet doesn't appear to show up in the Whisker menu after installing. (there was some talk about it yesterday)
<Guest15376> It does in the old menu
<elfy> it's in menu here ok 
<Guest15376> whisker?
<elfy> yep
<Guest15376> nope...today's daily, LiveUSB, no staging ppa
<Guest15376> removed and re-installed.  still not on WM
<elfy> mmm - definitely here - though this is a real machine, with team ppa's 
<Guest15376> HaHa...gotcha, I knew you guys were keeping the good stuff to yourselves :)
<ali1234> works for me
<elfy> just booted the b2 and installed it - turns up in multimedia there
<Guest15376> B2 out now?
<elfy> the testing image 
<Guest15376> ah, that effectively different than todays daily?
<elfy> shouldn't be 
<Guest15376> OK then quod just doesn't like me...if it turns up for you guys, I won't bother with it anymore.
<elfy> lol
<elfy> Guest15376: if you start typing quod does it show up?
<Guest15376> didn't, let me check again
<Guest15376> nope
<Guest15376> going to reboot the Live USB.
<elfy> marking us ready
<knome> yay
<knome> and sorry for not having time (again) to test...
<elfy> such is life
<elfy> who's dealing with release note? 
<knome> i don't think that has been assigned
<knome> is the b2 notes very different from b1?
<elfy> slight change in bugs probably
<knome> yep
<elfy> definite change in known issues
<knome> heh
<elfy> bones are up to date at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ReleaseNoteBase
<elfy> no flim flam there though
<knome> yep, but that's elsewhere
<knome> i can look at stuff in ~30mins if need be
<knome> well 40-45...
<elfy> thanks knome :)
<elfy> I'll start the xorg one off with the bones - you can add whatever 
<knome> cheers
<elfy> did a basic one - did a basic wiki one too (links in xorg post) 
<elfy> I'll do more with the wiki tomorrow early
<knome> i'll look at the website one tonight
<elfy> yep - cheers
<bluesabre> hey all
 * Unit193 hides.
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Hi
 * bluesabre hides from Unit193
<bluesabre> how are things going?
<knome> bluesabre, well if you want to work on the release notes... ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I can help for sure
<knome> you saw what elfy said
<bluesabre> about starting with the bones?
<knome> lol
<knome> then proceeding to the meat..
<bluesabre> I'll get started adding details shortly
<knome> he prepared the announcement on the website
<bluesabre> any specific fluff you want?
<knome> the usual
<knome> once you start doing that, feel free to ping me; i know it's always nicer to do that together with somebody
<knome> apparently we didn't do any special release notes on the wiki for b1
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/apps/xfburn/commit/?id=5052d5761386e470fe0cdd6a799c1ee77be80c64 wow, and just talkinga bout that.
<bluesabre> I think that was what we decided right? minor notes until release
<knome> just said
<knome> i wasn't sure
<bluesabre> :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: wow, nifty
<knome> but whatever works for me
<bluesabre> not sure there is a whole lot new outside of xfce 4.12
<bluesabre> I suppose I can get the updated list of packages together though
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193>  xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin - 0.2.2-0ubuntu1 up.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/S7QJpFSwnVxWqSPnkmBp for those that care. :P
<bluesabre> nice
<knome> Unit193, you mean people who work in the caretaking business?
<knome> like nurses...
 * bluesabre waits forever for the wiki to log him in
<bluesabre> knome: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10686618/
<bluesabre> since the wiki is taking its time, there's the updated "obvious" package list
<bluesabre> places and weather are probably less important on that list
<knome> mhm
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-27
<bluesabre> I'm thinking it might be a good idea to incorporate the patch at the end of this bug in vivid/PPAs, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11450
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11450 in core "Thunar 1.64, 1.65, & 1.66 crash when moving files" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<Unit193> I snagged the exo patch. :P
<ochosi> (late) evening folks
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> Unit193: which one?
<ochosi> bluesabre: how's it goin?
<bluesabre> ochosi: not too bad
<bluesabre> packaging that fix for thunar, and then will probably do some uploads
<ochosi> is there a working fix already?
<ochosi> i skipped the backlog about that the last few days
<ochosi> it seemed to go rambling on and on and on...
<bluesabre> some confirmed a fix that was applied today
<bluesabre> and then emailed me directly to get it fixed in ubuntu :P
<bluesabre> so I'm going to do some testing on it
<ochosi> heh ok
<ochosi> that is some user initiative there
<bluesabre> indeed :D
<bluesabre> and now we're in bug-hunting/fixing mode for vivid, so that's going to be fun
<ochosi> so vivid bugfixing is your main focus atm?
<bluesabre> don't really have a main focus, if anything, its been hard to focus the past few days
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> me neither, was too busy with RL work
<bluesabre> maybe I'll test the gtk3 exo, see if I can package it one way or another, and do a 0.11 release
<ochosi> would like to work on some ports for xfce again
<bluesabre> also need to figure out the xfce_spawn_on_screen issue in exo 0.10.4
<ochosi> eric ported garcon
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> xfce-dev has been so active I have not been able to keep up
<ochosi> the screenshot in the roadmap isn't the most recent though
<ochosi> the padding has been fixed
<ochosi> garcon was really a comparably easy port
<Unit193> bluesabre: Unable to focus, need glasses?
<knome> ah ah
<ochosi> anyway, gotta hit the sack
<knome> ochosi, which one?
<knome> ah ah!
<bluesabre> Unit193: :P
<ochosi> can't focus anymore and my glasses don't help anymore
<ochosi> knome: yours obviously
<ochosi> night all!
<knome> ouch
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<bluesabre> welllllp, not fixed, or new bug on https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11450
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11450 in core "Thunar 1.64, 1.65, & 1.66 crash when moving files" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<elfy> so - did anyone actually bother with a release note ?
<elfy> xfpm crashing apparently - not reportable, ppa's ... 
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> no, i dropped the ball there a bit i guess
<ochosi> somehow you had such a good grip on the release notes so far that they weren't really on my radar
<elfy> knome and bluesabre were looking at it
<ochosi> is there a pad?
<elfy> ochosi: the draft is at xorg 
 * ochosi looks
<elfy> I put in the basics and linked to the wiki notes yesterday 
<ochosi> wasn't there another known issue?
<elfy> just needs the nice writing written :)
<ochosi> i think sean said something about a freeze of ubiquity at the end
<elfy> there's an OEM issue 
<elfy> yea - that's really the same issue 
<ochosi> plus he said we have icons on the desktop in the ubiquity-only session
<ochosi> ah ok
<elfy> yea - I saw those but didsn't actually take much notice of that :(
<ochosi> right, that we have to fix
<ochosi> i mean specifically we
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> still wondering whether we should use something other than xfdesktop to draw that background...
<elfy> ochosi: doesn't seem to be a bug for that - I'll do one now - what to report against? 
<ochosi> not sure, maybe xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> or -meta
<elfy> ok - don't suppose it matters much as it'll be internal anyway 
<Unit193> Can't we just pretend it isn't happening? :(
<elfy> well if bluesabre hadn't said anything it was going in one eye and out the other here :p
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Next time someone gets a chance, open a terminal there and dump the env to a pastebin?
<elfy> we know now though ... /o\ 
<elfy> booting it now Unit193 
<Unit193> (Someone = me if it's not done by the weekend and I remember it.)
<ochosi> i don't remember how we created specific settings for xfdesktop just for the ubiquity only session
<ochosi> with xfwm4 it was easy, just a startup command to disable the compositor
<Unit193> Did we ever?
<elfy> bug 1437180
<ubottu> bug 1437180 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437180
<ochosi> Unit193: dunno, i'm wondering though why the icons didn't show up from the start
<Unit193> ochosi: xfdesktop4 4.11 vs 4.12?
<ochosi> hm, not sure there was any change in that department
<ochosi> then again i wouldn't notice, i don't use icons on the desktop ever
<ochosi> elfy: updated the draft a little
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> do we have more known issues or stuff we need to add there?
<elfy> there are a couple still kicking about - but the one we need to note is the eject/reboot issue
<elfy> I was expecting trumpets and fanfares on the xorg post re 3.12 :p
<elfy> s/4.12
<ochosi> yeah, could do a separate post, not sure the release announcement is the best place for fanfares
<ochosi> but feel free to extend what i've written there up to now, i'm a bit tired so maybe not in the fanfare-mood for that reason
<elfy> I'm not *that* worried 
<ochosi> also, the current double-reference to the known issue is a bit confusing
<ochosi> and maybe we should move the link to detailed notes at the very bottom
<elfy> I thought you were too tired :)
<elfy> ochosi: ok - I removed the double reference - left it at the top as a warning
<elfy> changed known issues to just be link to the wiki - which makes sense I guess
<ochosi> uhm now there's another more obvious duplication
<ochosi> or are you still working on the pageÃ
<ochosi> ?
<elfy> nope 
<ochosi> highlights and issues...
<ochosi> also "Please note the important install known issue *below* " doesn't make any sense anymore
<elfy> done
<ochosi> i removed that linebreak in the bugreport reference
<ochosi> or was that intended?
<elfy> no intended line breaks - I can only just see the screen at the moment :)
<ochosi> ok, i think i'm ok with it as it is now
<elfy> okey doke 
<ochosi> maybe we should give either bluesabre or knome a chance to take a look and sign off
<elfy> ochosi: works for me 
<ochosi> cause i wasn't kidding when i said that i'm actually too tired for this sort of work
<elfy> ochosi: I would have carried on 
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> go ahead then
<elfy> I'll play a bit more - then leave it for the other 2 - as long as we publish sometime today 
<elfy> maybe even add a 'don't install from it if you don't want to hard install, install b1 and dist-upgrade instead"
<elfy> anyway -- have a good day ochosi :)
<ochosi> yeah, sounds like sane advice
<ochosi> alrighty, bbabl
<bluesabre> good morning
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: Can you check out https://code.launchpad.net/~kalgasnik/lightdm-gtk-greeter/post-2.0.0/+merge/251694 and see if it resolves the white screen issue without the specific monitor configuration?
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<ochosi> yeah, i agree that it's mostly bugfix, which is why i commented
<ochosi> it's quite big and seems to be a single commit
<ochosi> which makes it extremely hard to review
<bluesabre> some fixes can be huge, but this is also 4 different fixes, so it'd be expected to take up some space
<bluesabre> and this is C, where nothing is small and tidy
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> just saying, throwing >1 bugfix in one commit is not ideal
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<ochosi> but as long as this fixes things, i'm fine
<ochosi> wasn't sure why he named the branch like he did though
<ochosi> (other than the commit being big)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'm going to review the branch tonight and give it some testing
<bluesabre> those fixes are certainly welcome :)
<elfy> bluesabre: did you look at x.org beta2 post? 
<knome> i didn't even if i promised
<knome> is it published or does it need love now?
<elfy> not published - and you might want to give it some love
<knome> ok, i'll look at it
<knome> is the release out?
<knome> eg. can i push it out when it's ready
<elfy> yea - about 12 hours ago
<elfy> yea - publish when ready
<knome> ok
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Been in a meeting. Looking now.
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, That is a significant patch. Give me a bit...
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Do you want me to test this or review the code?
<slickymaster> krytarik, you haven't made any MP yet, have you?
<slickymaster> regarding the translators credits?
<krytarik> Nope, was waiting for your response on any of that first - though I *did* think about just blankedly doing some. :P
<slickymaster> please go ahead
 * krytarik looks back at the list
 * slickymaster checks krytarik url
<slickymaster> krytarik, we're still under http://www.cellrabta.pk/xubuntu/docs/unmerged-changes.html proposals, right?
<krytarik> Yep.
<krytarik> slickymaster: Please let me know what else of those you think is desirable and managable right now.
<slickymaster> that's a lot of items
<krytarik> Yeah, I had a bit of time. :P
<slickymaster> even though some would be doable in a single MP
<slickymaster> my suggestion would just that krytarik 
<slickymaster> those who could be gathered into a single MP 
<slickymaster> would be the ones we could deal with, now
<slickymaster> and leave the rest for the next cycle
<slickymaster> what do you think?
<krytarik> Well, *everyone* of those could :P - but some are dependent on other stuff.
<krytarik> The ones having sub-bullets, specifically.
<slickymaster> that last item seems to be the most sensible one, in terms of a possible negative impact
<krytarik> That is, right now it's more like a complete package, with only the ones marked with an [i] being able to be independently applied - so I'd indeed prefer not having to pull all those apart, however for traceabilities' sake...
<krytarik> *traceability's
<krytarik> slickymaster: Yeah, on that one, every language's translators would have to get those through the translation system once again - without doing any actual translation.
<krytarik> However, I'd really like to fix that up too.
<slickymaster> yeah, but we're 23 days away from release, so I'd prefer to play on the safe side and leave that one to thew W cycle
<slickymaster> s/thew/the
<krytarik> Well, if it's not 'translated', it'll just look the same. :P
<krytarik> However, that affects the translation percentage, of course.
<slickymaster> hm hm
<krytarik> Also, DSF and all...
<krytarik> And then there is the x-d-s stumbling block, of course.
<krytarik> (Regarding the other one.)
<slickymaster> so the way I see it, we have two possibilities, either we go with a MP, just with the [i] items
<slickymaster> or we go with a MP with everything with the exception of the last item
<krytarik> slickymaster: The x-d-s change would still have to be decided on then though.
<krytarik> For me to go in one direction or another reg. it, that is.
<slickymaster> yeah, indeed, and that does implies bluesabre and/or ochosi and/or Unit193 2 cents
<krytarik> Yep.
<ochosi> what cents?
<slickymaster> hey ochosi 
<krytarik> Euro, of course. :P
<ochosi> hey, whazzup? :)
<slickymaster> see what krytarik and I have been discussing
<slickymaster> ^^^
<slickymaster> krytarik, I would say that a MP with the first three [i] items would be the best approach now, since we're so late in the cycle
<krytarik> slickymaster: Like I indicated, I can always roll back some of the changes on the individual parts, if separate MPs are needed, or some of the changes aren't wanted/applyable yet.
<slickymaster> but there's no need/point on doing things and then rolling back, if it can be avoided
<krytarik> Well, I have the current state reflected by all the involved files, but that doesn't mean I can't pull out any individual changes if needed - always had that in mind.
<krytarik> That is, I'd rather do *that* instead of dropping most of the currently applyable changes for now.
<slickymaster> that makes sense
<krytarik> That is to say, just the [i] ones don't quite cut it for me.
<krytarik> Or the first ones of those, rather.
<slickymaster> I get that
<ochosi> slickymaster: i read a bit of the backlog, but i'm not sure where you want/need my cents..?
<slickymaster> regarding the x-d-s change
<krytarik> slickymaster: And particularly the very first item, appearance of cross references, I'd like to at least have approved by knome too.
<slickymaster> yes, I'm sure that we'll jump in as soon as he'll see the backlog
<krytarik> ochosi: And maybe the breaking of strings not actually to translate too.
<krytarik> ochosi: The options there are: a) Change x-d-s; b) Add a symlink in the docs package; c) Only add a 'website' target and leave the rest as is.
<krytarik> Obviously, I'd prefer to do it proper. :)
<krytarik> * properly
<ochosi> sorry, you still lost me there, what change in x-d-s exactly? what are you referring to? symlink in the docs package to what?
<krytarik> The file path in the Help .desktop file would have to changed.
<ochosi> right why's that?
<krytarik> It's currently pointing to the 'about' subdirectory, and would then need to point at the root directory.
<ochosi> ah
<slickymaster> exactly 
<ochosi> so instead of exo-open --launch WebBrowser /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html
<ochosi> exo-open --launch WebBrowser /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html ?
<krytarik> Yep.
<ochosi> sounds like an easy change, so what's the question again? :)
<krytarik> lol
<ochosi> you want me to just change that or would you expect any drawbacks..?
<krytarik> Only if someone is eager to do that. :P
<slickymaster> any changes in x-d-s has to go by you
<slickymaster> or bluesabre an/ord Unit193 
<ochosi> this seems like a very sensible and easy change
<slickymaster> yes
<ochosi> so yeah, not sure what a symlink would help
<krytarik> ochosi: Well, I'm happy if it's not needed, of course. :P
<krytarik> However, I actually tested that - not the coolest thing on Earth, of course. :D
<sorinello> Hello, can someone point me on how to clone the git repo/submodule containing thunar ?
<ochosi> sorinello: git clone git://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar
<sorinello> I see that thunar appears in more $TYPE's
<ochosi> krytarik, slickymaster: for simple changes like these the most efficient way is to just tell one of us "hey, change this and that in x-d-s" or even submitting a MR for that would be fine
<sorinello> thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> sorinello: yw
<sorinello> ochosi, any particular reason why xfce source are not on github ?
<sorinello> how come xfce hasn't migrated to github
<ochosi> sorinello: there's a github mirror, but it's not used for development
<ochosi> there seemed no need to migrate
<krytarik> ochosi: Yeah, we haven't really had a chance to chat about all that till now - so I left that as an option.
<ochosi> we're happy with our servers
<sorinello> okay, thanks for the info, I just want to poke a little bit in the sources of thunar
<slickymaster> ok ochosi, consider yourself as 'told' about it, then ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> slickymaster, krytarik: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/562
<ochosi> sorinello: hf! :)
<slickymaster> great ochosi 
<slickymaster> thnaks
<slickymaster> thanks even
<krytarik> LOL - that was quick.
<krytarik> slickymaster: Snacks! :P
<slickymaster> ok, krytarik, let's wait for the Finnish input on all this, and then propose a MP and I'll be happy to review it and merge it
<ochosi> np, quick is how i roll ;)
<slickymaster> lol
<ochosi> however, we still need another upload before the final release
<krytarik> slickymaster: Excluding the general credits still, yes?
<ochosi> so that would be something to keep on the radar
<slickymaster> yes krytarik 
<ochosi> (we might need more changes in x-d-s though)
<slickymaster> indeed ochosi
<slickymaster> speaking about snack krytarik, little one is already nagging about it
<krytarik> lol
<krytarik> Well, I just had breakfast. :P
<slickymaster> we had lunch just 2 hours ago and he's already hungry :P
<krytarik> That's what it needs to get from little to big. ;P
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> 4
<slickymaster> lol irssi is lagging again horribly
<krytarik> It's not Irssi, it's your internet connection. :P
<slickymaster> no it's not
<krytarik> slickymaster: This is what I mean by "Correct some data in the general contributor credits" exactly, btw:  http://paste.openstack.org/show/QdZJSz82u43SNIRGZlJz/
<slickymaster> yeah, alphabetical order krytarik 
<krytarik> slickymaster: Nah, I was about to say disregard that, that's secondary - the more important one is the incorrect LP user names.
<slickymaster>  you're. tbh I didn't noticed the correction of the LP names:P
<slickymaster> my bad
<krytarik> Yeah, I can see how that can be overlooked there - lazy me. :P
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Would you have time to upload xfce4-session 4.12.1 for me?
<Noskcaj> it and xfdesktop4 4.12.1 are in ppa:noskcaj/staging
<pleia2> knome: lmk when you're about? want to chat polos (I sadly haven't kept up with any potential discussions you may have already had with ochosi, only pings from ochosi post washing :))
<elfy> evening pleia2 
<pleia2> o/ elfy 
<brainvvash_> Noskcaj, are you preparing xfdesktop 4.12.1 for vivid? if yes, there are two regressions. not documented on bugzilla yet, but fixed in master.
<Noskcaj> brainvvash_, oh. Is a bugfix release coming soon or should i add patches to my package?
<brainvvash_> a bug fix release is planned, but only eric_the_idiot knows when it will be released :)
<Noskcaj> ok. I might save xfdesktop4 for a MRE so we can test it a bit better. There's a lot of changes anyway
<micahg> Noskcaj: there's 3 weeks until final freeze, standard SRU test period is 7 days...
<micahg> if it's not uploadable now, it probably shouldn't be an SRU either...
<Noskcaj> micahg, I didn't look at the release schedule, i just knew it was "soonish"
<Noskcaj> We should have enough time then
<micahg> Noskcaj: and anything you need sponsored, if you throw it in the queue, I can take a look over the weekend
<Noskcaj> micahg, session's the only xfce thing i need sponsored ATM, if bluesabre doesn't just copy it from my PPA, i'll make a bug tomorrow
<gnumbknuts> Hi ye. Has Xchat been dropped from vivid-Î²2 ? I had to install it manually on live-usb.  
<elfy> yes it has
<gnumbknuts> Will it return for the final release? or will there be no IRC client installed by default ? Thanks elfy.
<elfy> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-14-10-beta-1/
<elfy> was removed in the last release
<elfy> no - there are no plans to bring it back
<elfy> not well supported anymore, I actually use hexchat here
<gnumbknuts> Ok elfy, I will check out Hexchat ;â
<elfy> I would :)
<elfy> not sure why we say install xchat tbh, the removal came about after a discussion in team and on devel mailing list about replacing xchat with hexchat
 * micahg uses xchat :)
<elfy> I used to for ~5 years
<elfy> moved to hexchat last cycle because we were talking about changing
<elfy> 2 really annoying issues for me with it, though I plod on using it ;)
<elfy> I only stop using something when issues are really really annoying ... 
<gnumbknuts> I didn't realise  that Pidgin could do IRC. I just had a look at some pictures of Hexchat, it looks almost the same as Xchat.
<Noskcaj> gnumbknuts, hexchat is based on xchat, but it is actually being maintained
<pleia2> it doesn't do it very well, but it's already included and we figure anyone who is going to be using IRC for more than a channel or two will have their own preference anyway so they'll just install their own client
<Noskcaj> pidgin's irc is pretty dreadful for regular users, but it's enough for people needed support most of the time
<elfy> gnumbknuts: hezxchat is a fork afaik
<elfy> just has some suppport
<elfy> works ok here except - alt+a to /away and ctrl+f resizes the whole window 
<elfy> those being my 2 issues with it ;)
<elfy> does sasl though apparently
<gnumbknuts> I was thinking because IRC is such an old format, that if a client worked properly. then it wouldn't need maintaining.
<gnumbknuts> Yes well... I,m new to IRC so I'm a bit scared of using some of those commands in fear of breaking something. LOL! 
<drc> gnumbknuts: There
<elfy> there is that - but if something does happen - is there anyone about ... 
<drc> s a difference between "maintained" and "actively developed".
<drc> See: ssl bugs :)
<drc> and with that, dinnertime
<knome> pleia2, here i am
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hello elfy
<elfy> though I'm not likely to be mistaken for pleia2 ;)
<knome> and no, still didn't do anything about the announcement - friend popped here sooner than he told he was going to
<gnumbknuts> I guess it doesn't really matter whether or not an IRC client is installed by default. That's the beauty of ?ubuntu based distros, it is very easy to install :)
<elfy> knome: yep - assumed something 
<elfy> gnumbknuts: that for sure
<Unit193> Hint, don't use pidgin and IRC.
<gnumbknuts> While I'm here... In trying out Vivid-Î²2, I noticed that the menu icon on the panel is the xfce-menu icon. Should it not be the Whisker-menu icon ?
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> should be the Xubuntu icon
<elfy> looks like the Xubuntu one http://i.imgur.com/n7C5mOu.png
<gnumbknuts> elfy: Yes that is the one, I think I may have gotten the names mixed up. So then it, seems that all is well. 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-28
<elfy> published b2 post
<elfy> fiddled with the widget too
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<elfy> so in that really easy to edit page - something needs to be noted against rhythmbox - no simple way to add multiple libraries
<elfy> banshee's the same - only one source, but can import from multiple places
<brainvvash> why is Banshee even considered? it pulls in additional libraries (mono)
<elfy> no idea - it's just on the list
<brainvvash> ali1234, what about quod libet?
<elfy> right - added note re rhythmbox - and quod libet ;)
<bluesabre> elfy: thanks, I did have a look at the post before, and it seemed fine
<elfy> bluesabre: okey doke :)
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: I'll review the patch, was just wondering if when you applied the patch and installed if it fixed the white screen issue for you
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: can take a look now
<bluesabre> also, morning folks!
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: noticed that there are identical patches 02_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch and 03_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch in -session
<bluesabre> only 03 is active in series, so not that big of a deal, but interesting
<bluesabre> the patches folder is kind of messy in upstream debian :)
<bluesabre> but other than that, things look ok
<bluesabre> I'll test and upload when I get back in a few hours
<bluesabre> also, slickymaster ochosi I saw that we need a new xubuntu-default-settings
<bluesabre> I'll land a new package for that tomorrow, so if we have anything else that needs to go in, let me know
<ali1234> because banshee is an example of a music player that has an intuitive ui where (nearly) everything works
<ali1234> whatever we ship should be at least as good as it, or rhythmbox
<knome> subjective.
<elfy> of course it's subjective 
<knome> some things aren't, and those are the things we're actually wanting to compare
<knome> at least at this point
<ali1234> having things actually work is not subjective
<knome> you can't do a comparison where the goal is to match some subjective "bestness"
<ali1234> they either work or they dont
<knome> sure. whether those features (or "things that work") are desirable, is a different thing
<ali1234> no, if the user interface is littered with buttons and menus which don't work properly or don't do anything at all, then the interface is not intuitive
<ali1234> again, not subjective
<knome> oookay.
<knome> what ever.
<knome> really.
<ali1234> elfy: what is "multiple libraries" exactly?
<ali1234> do you mean like multiple directories merged in to one library?
<elfy> ali1234: I've got music in more than one partition 
<elfy> you 'used' to be able to fiddle in dconf/gconf-editior to add extra's - -but that failed here this morning
<elfy> and even if you can - not particularly userfriendly procedure 
<ali1234> right, banshee and rhythmbox can only watch one directory, but you can add as many as you want
<ali1234> and it doesn't copy by default
<elfy> ali1234: I has /mnt/music and /mnt/music2, could only have one in rhythmbox (and I think banshee) 
<elfy> rest let you have whatever you want
<ali1234> you can add both but it will only automatically watch one for changes
<elfy> ali1234: not this morning I couldn't 
<ali1234> in rhythmbox, file->add music and don't tick "copy files"
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> wouldn't have looked at that as the right option
<elfy> anyway - thanks :)
<ali1234> in banshee it's media->import media
<ali1234> and the "don't copy" option is in the settings, off by default
<elfy> right
<elfy> previously (and I mean last time I used it) you could multiple libraries in rhythmbox 
<elfy> but had to gconf or something
<ali1234> yeah i vaguely remember that too
<ali1234> elfy: works for me on vivid. dconf-editor, org.gnome.rhythmbox.rhythmdb.locations
<ali1234> then in preferences tick "watch my library for new files" (should be on by default imo)
<ali1234> and it even says "multiple locations set" in the text field
<ali1234> would be nice if there was a gui for this, but it does work
<ali1234> quod libet seems really good
<ali1234> even "jump to playing song" works
<ali1234> it doesn't show up in the indicator though :(
<brainvvash> enable the mpris plugin
<brainvvash> it really has many plugins. I was really surprised
<ali1234> lots of plugins as well i see
<ali1234> yeah. i assume we could enable mpris by default?
<ali1234> "The XFCE netinstall disk image provided by the Debian project installs Quod Libet as the default music program."
<brainvvash> https://github.com/quodlibet/quodlibet/issues/1493
<ali1234> i could take a look at that
<brainvvash> I guess ubuntu could add a patch to enable it by default
<elfy> ali1234: aah yes - that's the one 
<elfy> slow ... 9 minutes and it's dealt with 27 days of 135 days 
<ali1234> 135 days playing time?
<ali1234> 5 days imported too fast for me to even see it happen
<ali1234> not enough space in the VM for more than that, but i can try it on 14.04
<ali1234> in 14.04 it does not appear to have a progress indicator
<ali1234> 24 days 24 minutes, import time ~1 minute
<drc> ali1234: Why are you looking at old versions?  I thought the purpose of this exercise was to evaluate players for default inclusion in the future 15.10/W?
<ali1234> because my VM can only fit about 5 days of mp3s
<ali1234> so i can't test import speed in it
<ali1234> if the version in 15.04 is really an order of magnitude slower then it is a regression
 * drc gives up on this, it's not a subjective evaluation, it's a "I want this one" evaluation.
<elfy> mmm - got to 40 days
<ali1234> funny how all the people claiming "this isn;t subjective!" all seem to have already picked a player that they want
<drc> yeah, but we're not running the "subjective" evaluation.
<ali1234> and i've said all along that i have no preference other than NOT gmusicbrowser
<elfy> my preference isn't ever going to get on the list 
<elfy> anyway - off for a bit now
<drc> neither is mine
<drc> Anyway, I'm going to just shut up on this subject.
<ali1234> later i'll set up a real test on some other hardware
<ali1234> what would you consider to be a "large" library anyway?
<elfy> ali1234: >1Tb 
<ali1234> well i can't test that, i don't have that much disk space in my computer
<elfy> I could test it 
<elfy> but I've not got that much here, was just responding to what I'd consider large
<ali1234> i would consider 100GB to be large
<elfy> I guess some people would consider mine to be large
<ali1234> how big is the biggest ipod these days?
<elfy> no idea without asking google
<elfy> 64Gb apparently 
<elfy> 2 partitions here - 194G and 518G - can test with one of those if we're after time to deal with large library
<ali1234> is initial import time really a big problem?
<ali1234> i mean you only have to do it once
<ali1234> as long as it does work quickly after you've imported...
<ali1234> otoh if we're going to test the latter then we might as well time how long the import takes as well
<elfy> no - not for me it's not at all, that's the same as how long to boot a machine if you run a server :)
<ali1234> yeah. or how long the installer takes :)
<elfy> I don't mind - I'm happy enough to get the data
<elfy> yep :)
<ali1234> well i'll do a small scale test with my 50GB library on a slow netbook with a slow spinning disk
<elfy> ok - let me know if you want anything 
<Unit193> Cookies?
<zequence> Sugary things that taste good?
<elfy> they'd be green by the time they arrived Unit193 :(
<elfy> hi zequence :)
<zequence> Hi elfy 
<zequence> Ayone got a ubuntu phone yet?
<elfy> nope 
<zequence> Maybe it's better just to get a device and install your own thing
<zequence> elfy: How's Xubuntu doing?
<elfy> pretty good all in all :)
<zequence> elfy: How's England doing (hope I'm aiming right, geographically)
<zequence> ?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> you aimed right - currently damp and dismal 
<zequence> dismal is right with us nordic people
<zequence> It just sets the right mood for anything
<elfy> ha ha 
<zequence> joking, of course
<zequence> Seems that the differences between different DEs is growing somewhat larger now
<zequence> Sorry for being so late in the discussion
<zequence> I think I noticed it before, but never saw it as a problem, or whatever you would prefer to call itr
<zequence> elfy: You listen to doom metal at any time?
<zequence> I believe some of the best doom metal bands are from England
<zequence> Speaking about dismal
<zequence> I love it
<zequence> elfy: You ever listen to doom metal?
<zequence> Sorry, I'm on the wrong channel.
<zequence> I actually though I was on the other one. Sorry, again
<krytarik> slickymaster: Just did an MP for the docs with all the changes except the general credits one, as agreed upon.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Since you have xubuntu ppa rights, would you mind packaging xfburn from upstream git?
<gnumbknuts> ali1234: I have been following the conversation about audio players, and have to say that I am in agreement with you in that the UIs are not intuitive. Also, it happened that I was using the same layout as you in GMB, the Exaile layout, which prompted me to install Exaile. I like this player for its file browser ability; and, of course, that it can play wav(PCM) format.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Umm, what for?  It's kind of early WIP.
<Noskcaj> testing and crap. Can you copy it if i package it?
<Noskcaj> Also, do we know when the next round of 4.12 point releases is coming? If not i might backport a few commits
<gnumbknuts> Vivid-Î²2.iso and usb-creator-gtk is still plagued by this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-creator/+bug/1325801 . In particular, comment #105 mentions the Xubuntu iso ; is there any solution of this problems in the pipe line ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1325801 in Ubuntu CD Images "failed to boot from USB disk with error: gfxboot.c32: not a COM32R Image boot:" [Undecided,In progress]
<Noskcaj> gnumbknuts, looks like it's fixed in vivid, being fixed in other releases soon
<gnumbknuts> ubottu: you must be psychic , twice this has happened ;)
<ubottu> gnumbknuts: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Unit193> ubottu is a bot
<ubottu> Yes, I can confirm that I am a bot. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots for all information.
<gnumbknuts> Unit193: thanks, I couldn't workout how somebody could reply so fast . 
<Unit193> Sure.
<gnumbknuts> Noskcaj: I tried a forced install, into trusty1404.2,  of the utopic and vivid update versions of usb-creator, and then ran the programs; neither of them worked. I still had to copy my system version of gfcboot.c32(23kB) on to the usb-stick for it to work. 
<slickymaster> knome, the MP is here ->
<slickymaster> https://code.launchpad.net/~krytarik/xubuntu-docs/patches/+merge/254485
<slickymaster> I'll wait you're input before merging it
<knome> your
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> bah it's saturday
<knome> hah
<slickymaster> we're allowed to mistype 
<slickymaster> since we understand each other
<knome> krytarik, commented MP
<xkaue> Just want to thank the Xubuntu developers for the awesome work. Xubuntu is my favorite distro, fast, stable and pretty. Thank you very much.
<knome> xkaue, you're welcome, and glad to hear you like it!
<slickymaster> so, knome, krytarik, Unit193, ftr, you agree with changing Ubuntu Documentation Project <ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com> into Xubuntu Team <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com> in the docs make file?
<knome> slickymaster, ack
<krytarik> Well, yep.
<slickymaster> Unit193!!!!
<Unit193> I'm oppressed!
<slickymaster> ahhaha
<slickymaster> I'll consider that as a yes
<slickymaster> knome, waht about your doubt about the actual output of the cross references now?
<slickymaster> krytarik: ^^^ 
<knome> i just remember krytarik wanted to shorten the output, and i'm not sure if it works in all situations in all places
<Unit193> Oh you mean that silly "The section called" stuff?
<krytarik> knome: It does.
<knome> krytarik, in english? but in finnish?
<krytarik> Unit193: Yep, that.
<slickymaster> lol
<krytarik> knome: Across all languages, yes.
 * slickymaster enjoys the readiness state of mind krytarik holds
<knome> krytarik, technically or language-wise? how well do you know finnish?
<knome> :)
<krytarik> Technically, of course. ;P
<slickymaster> he's nitpicking krytarik 
<knome> slickymaster, actually, i'm not
<slickymaster> I know knome 
<knome> what i mean is that if we change the way crossreferences are output
<knome> that changes how the text reads
<knome> and it might make the text unnatural
<slickymaster> also know that
<knome> so as i said before, i'm fine making the crossreferences shorter on lists
<slickymaster> but I'm assuming that krytarik had that factor in mind
<knome> but not completely sure about paragraph and adminition text
<knome> krytarik, so did you? or does that change affect all crossreferences?
<slickymaster> adminition?
<knome> note, warning, etx
<knome> *etc
<knome> admonition really :P
 * slickymaster didn't want to say anything 
<slickymaster> ;)
<knome> hah
<slickymaster> lol
<krytarik> knome: Like I said, everywhere, every language.
<knome> but i'm not sure i agree with that change.
<knome> in that magnitude...
<knome> as i told you before :P
<slickymaster> it's something easilly reverted if we do see/think it's necessary knome 
<slickymaster> at any point in time
<knome> but the thing is, i know it's a mistake already
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> well, I don't want to make a merge of something that part of team isn't comfortable with
<knome> i understand the inconsistency issue krytarik mentions
<knome> and the issue with the lists where "the section ..." is repeated again and again
<knome> and i think that deserves a change
<slickymaster> that's the main reason I'm +1 on krytarik's proposal knome 
<knome> sure, but that should be limited to lists
<slickymaster> so knome, if we don't go with krytarik's option, what would be your suggestion?
<knome> make the change only affect crossreferences in lists
<slickymaster> krytarik, what do you think? ^^^
<krytarik> knome, slickymaster: I just checked the Finnish version, and the only difference there between now and my suggestion would be dropped quotation marks - so I guess that'd work for me too. :P
<slickymaster> great
<knome> krytarik, wait
<knome> krytarik, are you saying your proposal does not affect crossreferences in paragraph text at all then?
<knome> krytarik, or the only difference in addition to that?
<krytarik> Hah? I'm saying my primary target is to drop the "section called" addition, everywhere.
<knome> right
<Unit193> left
<knome> and you would be ok that it would only be dropped from lists?
<krytarik> No, because that make it inconsistent between the original version and the translations.
<krytarik> * makes
<knome> so what are you actually agreeing with then?
<krytarik> To not drop *every* addition, incl. quotation marks.
<knome> but that's not what i said :D
<krytarik> However, that'd still leave them inconsistent towards the other links, of course.
<knome> hmpf
<knome> let me check the finnish translation.
<knome> krytarik, no, it doesn't sound right
<knome> i guess i got to sleep on it though
<knome> krytarik, why does the list on the front page say "Chapter X"?
<krytarik> knome: I guess because those are chapters, rather than sections. :P
<krytarik> That is, automagically.
<knome> okay
<knome> krytarik, what about the consistency on guide-default-apps.html#default-media ?
<krytarik> knome: If you mean to indicate you want the "Chapter" stuff removed too then - I just tried it, and it works just the same.
<knome> krytarik, no, i'm just questioning your path to consistency :P
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-29
<slickymaster> hmm right
<slickymaster> knome, krytarik, did you get any common gorund?
<slickymaster> * groud
<slickymaster> sighs
<slickymaster> ground
<krytarik> lol
<krytarik> I think we decided that knome sleeps over it. :P
<knome> probably better
<slickymaster>  bah you're not sleeping knome, you're tutoring
<knome> i like how the chapter references are kept as is
<knome> but otoh, it does make the references stay inconsistent
<knome> in a different, more annoying way
<slickymaster> ok, we'll get back to this tomorrow
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> will you still be around tomorrow krytarik?
<krytarik> Yep.
<slickymaster> great
<krytarik> And Monday.
<knome> noooo way
<knome> EVEN *MON-DAY*
<krytarik> Well, I'm leaving Tuesday for 1.5 weeks. ;P
<knome> oh
<knome> where to?
<krytarik> Visiting my mom over Easter.
<knome> why did i convert that to "your mom" automatically in my head
<slickymaster> he'll be his mother Easter egg
<knome> and even thought "WHAT!"
<knome> slickymaster, ouch... :P
<knome> slickymaster, your wikipage is outdated :P
<slickymaster> ?!
<slickymaster> how's so?
<knome> well look at it yourself
<slickymaster> not sure what there is outdated
<knome> The section called "Contributions" does not outline your Xubuntu activities lately particularly well.
<slickymaster> no it doesn't
<slickymaster> but if you haven't mentioned I'd never noticed
<knome> lol
<knome> yeah...
<knome> that's why i try to keep my storytelling to my own blog
<knome> my wikipage is outdated too :P
<slickymaster> yeah
<Unit193> Seanie?
<Unit193> Snagged, bagged and soon tagged xfdash .91
<Unit193> Hrm.  soundmenu and hamster didn't get rebuilt for libxfce4util7.
<gnumbknuts> usb-creator-gtk update has successfully made a bootable usb-stick with Lubuntu-vivid-daily.iso(20150328). The iso contains the syslinux files required for it to work. It boots straight into the menu (BIOS legacy mode) with the language selector overlaid. I had first completely remove both usb-creator-gtk & -common ; and then install the Utopic versions : 
<gnumbknuts> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/usb-creator-common_0.2.62ubuntu0.2_amd64.deb
<gnumbknuts> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/usb-creator-gtk_0.2.62ubuntu0.2_amd64.deb
<gnumbknuts> So now, I guess, we only need Xubuntu iso to include these file? Though I did not drr them included in the manifest of the current pending build .
<elfy> you know this is a generic issue and not just xubuntu?
<gnumbknuts> Yes I know elfy, but it is only the Xubuntu iso that is still to be updated. evey other flavour seems to have done so.
<elfy> bluesabre: running xfpm from the ppa, crashes apparently, can't report it as PPA, but have unpacked the crash report and have them all available if you want them 
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to rebuild those packages?
<bluesabre> elfy: ochosi might be more interested in that
<elfy> true enough
<bluesabre> elfy: want to test a thunar package today to see if it works any worse for you?
<bluesabre> looking to fix https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11450 for those affected, though it doesn't affect all users, so also avoiding any regressions
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11450 in core "Thunar 1.64, 1.65, & 1.66 crash when moving files" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<elfy> I would - but not being affected here 
<bluesabre> k, I'll upload to staging then
<bluesabre> I also have an affected user testing on 14.04 :)
<elfy> that always helps :)
<bluesabre> mhm
<elfy> half the time I suspect you need to have random package installed the same as someone reporting
<elfy> just tested vm - works in there too
<bluesabre> I have a previous version of the patch that fixed the issue for me at work, so I have high hopes
<elfy> I'm often copy/pasting stuff - I've never seen thunar crash while doing it 
<elfy> tried to and from a stick - working here
<bluesabre> it doesn't affect my laptop
<bluesabre> but on my work desktop, it crashes immediately every time
<bluesabre> so its one of *those* bugs
<elfy> I'll boot laptop then 
<elfy> that's vanilla xubuntu
<bluesabre> chocolate xubuntu is better
<elfy> damn right :)
<elfy> nope - works there too ... 
<elfy> I tried ;)
<bluesabre> heh
<elfy> must be a pain to fix intermittent issues :)
<bluesabre> they've been working hard in xfce-dev
<bluesabre> there are actually a few non-related issues that cause similar crashes, so it's been a struggle
<elfy> I've seen :)
<dkessel> yay, byobu is finally working again in xfce-terminal in vivid =) thank you whoever did it!
<eric_the_idiot> elfy, which version of xfpm is in the ppa?
<elfy> eric_the_idiot:  1.4.4+git-0~1863~ubuntu15.04.1 
<eric_the_idiot> do you have a bracktrace of the crash(es) handy? I can take a look
<Unit193> bluesabre: Already did.
<elfy> eric_the_idiot: all I've got is the files that apport creates - even though I can't do anything with them
<elfy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10700898/
<eric_the_idiot> oh
<elfy> basically - I reboot, it tells me it's crashed 
<elfy> everything appears to be ok though *shrug*
<eric_the_idiot> ok, I assume ochosi knows more about apport stuff then. We can wait for him :)
<elfy> mmm - so after saying that, I tried the things I rarely do like suspend and lock :)
<elfy> lock works, came out of suspend to a black screen 
<elfy> and I really hate saying that particularly
<ochosi> hullo folks
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, we've had an upstream report about that as well, might be connected to the gdbus stuff (that i know next to nothing about)
<ochosi> elfy: specifically this one: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11767
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11767 in General "Sleep Functionality (systemd) Issues" [Normal,New]
<elfy> ochosi: ack - that sounds about right
<brainvvash_> Noskcaj, please nominate bug 1388009 for trusty
<ubottu> bug 1388009 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "The program is not translated" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388009
<Noskcaj> done
<Unit193> Never seems to help. :(
<brainvvash_> wow, thanks :)
<gnumbknuts> Is there a non-convoluted method of repackaging a xubuntu-vivid-daily-build.iso to include some extra packages ? I wish to add the syslinux packages that Ubuntu-daily.iso has, so I can test whether usb-creator-gtk update works . 
<ali1234> not really no
<ali1234> elfy: first result of the import test is done... gmb took ~25 minutes to import my library
<gnumbknuts> Thanks ali123, I was afraid some-one was going to say that. I just spent the last day researching and none of the methods described work with daily.iso(s). Only work with official releases 
<slickymaster> btw knome, did you get to think about the issue you have with krytarik's MP?
<knome> not yet
<knome> was a busy day today
<knome> less busy tomorrow
<slickymaster> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-28
<bluesabre> flocculant: uploaded new mugshot to -staging, https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED fixed and AccountsService should resolve sudoers issues
<bluesabre> if everything looks good, I'll push out mugshot 0.3.1 tomorrow and we can work to get it into xenial
<bluesabre> Unit193: the above also drops gstreamer1.0-tools :)
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, great timing, and very good news!
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I'm mostly free from school for a few weeks, is there anything that needs doing still for xenial?
<flocculant> bluesabre: I really hate doing this :( mugshot not allowing me to change face in test user
<bluesabre> flocculant: :(
<flocculant> yea 
<bluesabre> any terminal output?
<flocculant> didn't think to do so 
<flocculant> will now
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: bug triage/cleanup and testing
<tracker7> bluesabre: so - the answer to that is just GtkDialog mapped without a transient parent line
<bluesabre> tracker7: well, that's not it
<bluesabre> tracker7: what properties does your test user have?
<tracker7> first name and an initial for some reason ... 
<tracker7> http://i.imgur.com/l3Ia7Up.png
<tracker7> first name line are all greyed out 
<tracker7> put password in - ok - auth failed
<bluesabre> and just changing the photo does not work?
<tracker7> no - it wants password - and then auth fails
<bluesabre> found the code that makes the name uneditable, can tweak that away
<tracker7> :)
<bluesabre> tracker7: can you run it as 'mugshot -vv' and capture the debug output?
<tracker7> yup
<bluesabre> but yeah, definitely shouldn't be asking for a password with just changing the image :\
<tracker7> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15537712/
<bluesabre> there's why its asking for a password
<bluesabre> DEBUG:mugshot: get_chfn_details_updated() 'chfn details have been modified.'
<bluesabre> but why does it think its changed
<bluesabre> so weird
<knome> c-c-c-c-changees
<bluesabre> tracker7: thanks, I'll take another look at that tonight
<bluesabre> tracker7: for my sanity, this is with the newest mugshot package from -staging?
<bluesabre> pushed a fix for the name editing, so that be resolved with the next package
<tracker7> 0.3.0+bzr-0ubuntu1 :
<tracker7> )
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> :'(
<tracker7> I did make sure I updated it :p
<bluesabre> tracker7: that should be all the testing I need for now, unless you want to create a user in sudoers and verify it still seems to work
<flocculant> shudder ...
<flocculant> that account is so nekked ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can do that for sure
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool, thanks
<bluesabre> time to get ready for work, bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll do that right now and test 
<bluesabre> flocculant: fantastic
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup - with an admin account - works fine
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool, I'll figure out what's needed next tonight and will have another package up
<bluesabre> thanks for testing!
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - I'll check in the morning before work - if it's there I'll look here at the normal test user and let you know :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks again!
<flocculant> ty - for doing the real work here :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, sucks that i had no time to come up with a proper fix for that (especially since the theme was ready and all)
<ochosi> wow, quite a few wallpaper submissions meanwhile
<knome> ochosi, indeed
<knome> ochosi, btw, you now have approx. one week to give your input on the media manager article
<knome> anybody from the team around for a quick article review?
<flocculant> just happened by - got 5 minutes or so :)
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3800&preview=true
<knome> thanks :)
<flocculant> point 1 - do we have stuff from all team re media managers? if not " some of  the Xubuntu team members ..."
<knome> i'll just release the lock so you can dig in
<flocculant> ack
<knome> cheerio again
<flocculant> ok - once I'm done I'll ping you - then I'll cya tomorrow :)
<knome> nie
<knome> +c
<knome> also note we need a title
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> brb
<flocculant> Yes, we have no bananas.
<knome> :D
<flocculant> knome: done - not sure of title - maybe something alluding to the future and the past
<flocculant> back tomorrow :)
<knome> i was thinking about some analogy with flying and destinations
<knome> but *shrug*
<knome> i really don't know :D
<Unit193> Can anyone reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1535112 ?  Does adding the commit fix it for you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1535112 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "moving KDE apps with menu bar click can cause an unrecoverable freeze" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tracker4> Hi there
<tracker4> Is it only me that xubuntu 16.04 deletes xorg.conf at every boot?
<Unit193> ...That sounds bad.
<knome> or maybe they didn't have xorg.conf and thought it was removed?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-29
<bluesabre> probably more likely
<bluesabre> flocculant: no progress tonight, probably tomorrow
<bluesabre> nighty all
<flocculant> knome: neither did I :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup - when it's there I'll double check it :)
<shearstress> Hi, I am interested in contributing to xubuntu. Where can I start (I am a noob)? 
<ochosi> shearstress: hey and welcome!
<ochosi> have you checked this yet? http://xubuntu.org/contribute
<Nairwolf> hi guys, I wonder if it's possible to translate the website in other languages, for example french. I could translate into french. Would like to see the website translated, is it technically possible ? 
<cyphermox> flocculant: I think you're one of the people who mentioned oem mode being broken in xenial images?
<flocculant> cyphermox: no - try flexiondotorg :)
<flocculant> Xubuntu doesn't test that mode
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well, xubuntu is the only one fixed today, because the other images got built just too early to catch the new ubiquity ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> PaulW2U: can I just check something - I see you did a 64bit live test today - did you really NOT see the blueman crash? 
<flocculant> cos I appear to only get that now with 32bit :)
<PaulW2U> hi flocculant - no I did not see that crash on my Toshiba C-50B
<PaulW2U> I do see that on my Samsung R-620 though
<PaulW2U> I think I once made a comment to suggest the bug might be hardware specific?
<flocculant> PaulW2U: yea I'm fairly sure it is - I've consistently always seen it everywhere :)
<flocculant> seems now I'm not with 64bit virtual box ... 
<flocculant> thanks :)
<PaulW2U> flocculant: just for you, I wouldn't bother for anyone else :)
<PaulW2U> I've just booted my Samsung with 32 and 64 bit images
<PaulW2U> I now only see the crash running 32-bit 
<flocculant> PaulW2U: thanks :)
<flocculant> I can forget about it now - who cares about 32 bit :D
<PaulW2U> I agree. I only test because someone somewhere asks for 32-bit tests 
<flocculant> pretty much why I do 
<flocculant> for what it's worth I commented on the bug 
<knome> flocculant, maybe we should consider dropping 32 after 16.04
<flocculant> I wasn't serious :)
<knome> i was though...
<knome> by the time we release 18.04, the next LTS, how many 32-bit machines that can run that version exist?
<flocculant> that's different
<flocculant> dropping after 16.04 is 16.10
<knome> but we recommend the LTS's, and tbh, if we don't intend to ship a 32-bit version of 18.04, it wouldn't make much sense to do that for the regulal releases before
<flocculant> well
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<flocculant> what do we gain by dropping an arch? 
<flocculant> hey ochosi :)
<knome> flocculant, more testing time for the other arh
<knome> +c
<flocculant> right
<ochosi> i see a 32bit discussion? :)
<knome> yup
<ochosi> well we can still ship stuff and do less testing on 32bit as a middle ground
<flocculant> but given that those who actually test 32 test 32 not both
<knome> is 32bit what summons you lately?
<knome> ^ ochosi 
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> so we'd not gain anything imo
<ochosi> knome: "lately"? :) have i ever appeared "out of thin air" before by the mention of 32bit?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> When I jump early to development releases, it's on hardware that doesn't do 64bit.
<flocculant> generally that is 
<knome> well, maybe
<knome> the fact is that 32bit machines are rarer and rarer
<flocculant> of course
<flocculant> I don't think that in 2 months is time to be doing that 
<flocculant> not got an issue with starting to look at the issue generally
<flocculant> like - can we get metrics - how many 32 bit/64bit downloads go out
<ochosi> how many 32bit testers do we have atm?
<flocculant> ochosi: a few that pop up
<knome> even if many people test on 32-bit only (as you say), what do we benefit from that then if most end-users use 64-bit machines
<flocculant> ochosi: much like 64bit
<ochosi> flocculant: and the 32bitters do mostly 32bit-only? or both?
<flocculant> what do we benefit by not having 32bit? 
<flocculant> forgetting about testing
<knome> less ambiguity with downloads
<knome> of course there are options like only build 64bit desktop, both for core/base
<flocculant> ochosi: mostly so - from memory
<knome> and there's also the mini ISO
<knome> !minimal
<ubottu> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want.  The installer is text based (rather than graphical as used on the Desktop DVD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<flocculant> ochosi: I don't think that is of any importance here
<Unit193> Mini stinks.
<ochosi> yeah, mini is a bit useless tbh
<ochosi> if you don't have the bandwidth to download stuff before the install you likely won't have it *during* the install
<knome> i wouldn't say so, but ok :P
<ochosi> it's not *entirely* useless, just a bit ;)
<knome> note that we aren't talking about connectivity here, we're talking about 32/64-bit
<Unit193> ochosi: Actually, I meant installing all the packages during install vs having them already pre-installed in a squashfs.
<ochosi> knome: note taken!
<Unit193> knome: 'less ambiguity with downloads' - ok, don't link to them on the site, fixed.
<knome> why build something that isn't linked to?
<flocculant> why not build it? 
<Unit193> For the people that still need it.
<flocculant> all I've got so far in the lets not 32 bit is some vague 'people use 64bit' comment 
<flocculant> Unit193: sorry I meant 2 not's :p
<Unit193> And pretty useless to comment about Core at this point anyway.
<flocculant> agreed
<knome> Unit193, clearly anything is useless from your point of view, so why take part in the discussion at all?
<Unit193> knome: Stop, please.
<knome> Unit193, same to you, please
<Unit193> I meant the personal attacks, it's really kind of silly...
<knome> originally, i said "discuss about dropping 32", not "let's do it now"
<Unit193> I mean really...
<ochosi> i guess everybody go in their corner and take 5 and in a little while we can meet again and pick up the discussion anew (if people still want to)
<flocculant> as I said - for the discussion to actually mean anything - we need data on what people actually grab - not sure how we can do that
<flocculant> or even if
<knome> the data we have is what kind of pc's are being produced
<knome> if the situation is what it is today, i don't think 32-bit machines will be any more common in 2018
<flocculant> but is that the data we need to use?
<Unit193> flocculant: Well, not sure if Canonical keeps metrics on that, but might be able to check torrents.
<flocculant> Unit193: yep 
<knome> i would say it's at least one of the guidelines we can use when making decisions
<flocculant> yes - not got an issue with that at all
<knome> unless canonical is willing to open the download amounts
<knome> the data, that is
<flocculant> but imo more important is how many xubuntu32/64 there are is more 
<knome> i would imagine you can still upgrade to 18.04 with 32-bit
<knome> i mean unless canonical shuts the door for that for good
<knome> who knows?
<ochosi> what distros have dropped 32bit so far?
<Unit193> b0a17a49da5d39509a548a8c6dc68f8caa1a5d36	xubuntu-15.10-desktop-amd64.iso	1.02GiB	707	10	28	28.79GiB
<Unit193> 3a39ef73cb4b4ef9e5c4284f7396a434e64aafa4	xubuntu-15.10-desktop-i386.iso	1.03GiB	411	15	20	20.65GiB
<knome> downloads isn't completely reliable, since many people might be downloading the 32-bit version even if their computer supported 64-bit
<knome> at least in the past the 64-bit installations had some problems that weren't in 32-bit, some of that legacy is surely still going
<flocculant> probably
<knome> i see people asking that time to time on #xubuntu, so i don't think it's a small group of people
<knome> ochosi, i don't think any have done that so far
<flocculant> I thought I had seen something in the past about this
<knome> yeah, ubuntu recommends the 64-bit download by default now
<knome> and say that 32-bit are for "systems with less than 2GB RAM" 
<flocculant> https://bryanquigley.com/crazy-ideas/still-running-32-bit-ubuntu
<knome> here's the survey results: https://bryanquigley.com/crazy-ideas/32-bit-usage-survey-results
<knome> that's over a year old though :)
<knome> Unit193, please explain why it is any more useless to talk about core than 18.04?
<flocculant> yea I know - wasn't so much the data as the thoughts there - I'd assume at least some level of canonical in that thought pattern 
<knome> Unit193, they are both targets in the future, and we will want to consider both as we will at some point release both
<Unit193> knome: Because so far it's been pretty vaporware, can't get much real movement on it from others.  Sure it's still a target for us, but we don't control that so to rely on that at this point is simply too early.
<Unit193> Also, fwiw I was looking here: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<knome> looks like the amount of 32-bit downloads is getting smaller in proportion to all
<flocculant> of course it will
<flocculant> but 32 bit download is not 1% of total is it :)
<knome> for 14.04, percentage was 44%, for 15.10 37%
<knome> nope
<knome> one of the real questions is how many of the machines running 32-bit downloads could run 64-bit
<Unit193> Of course, these are only counting torrents, not upgrades or http downloads.  IMO, 16.04 will be more interesting.
<knome> sure, there just isn't the data so far
<Unit193> I don't know, but if we're not already we should at least try to push 64bit more too.
<knome> it's our recommended too
<Unit193> Too bad you can't easily flip without re-installing.
<flocculant> yea
<knome> Unit193, i'm sorry if you took the previous comment personally, i'm just frustrated with comments with something being "useless" to say; nothing is
<Unit193> Well, it seemed a bit, soo..  And I'm just trying to see if there's other solutions (eg, not linking on the site), and of course 'core' has seen near zero movement this cycle. :/
<flocculant> this discussion shouldn't include core 
<ochosi> 32bit might still be interesting for virtualizing though
<knome> flocculant, not at the core (pun intended)
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> So, what's the recommended method of installign (if there is one) once there's an outcry on the ml or FB/Twitter/etc?  (because big change, so of course there will be. :D )
<knome> but i think it's good to remember we will likely have those images to test too
<knome> Unit193, recommended method of installing... if 32-bit is dropped?
<knome> or if something else
<Unit193> knome: Right, and hardware only supports 32.
<knome> i haven't went in the details in my head :P
<ochosi> i guess we can always wait for Fedora to drop 32bit and enforce Wayland to take the first (s)hit instead of us
<ochosi> knome: s/went/gone/
<Unit193> ochosi: Ahaha. :D
<knome> maybe.
<Unit193> Also, no Xfce on Wayland. :'(
<ochosi> Unit193: on xwayland though
<Unit193> That's just about as sane as xmir...
<ochosi> also, since olivier is actively working on wayland it's still in the cards that we'll at some point have something for that
<knome> one of the reasons this discussion might be very appropriate for 18.04 is that there might not really be many 32-bit machines around at that time
<knome> (especially those that can sanely run the system)
<flocculant> right 
<knome> so looking at this from that point of view, i'm not sure if it's going to be that much of an outcry
<Unit193> Well, some netbooks are/were still made with decent enough hardware, but lacking 64bit.  I have one.
<flocculant> that I can understand as a starting point for a discussion - but as I said earlier - not 16.10 ;)
<Unit193> And, it may not, but typically things tend to go that way if they can.
<ochosi> knome: why would you say that there won't be "many" again? (sorry if i missed the evidence before)
<knome> flocculant, my point on "sooner than later" is that if we release 32-bit images for 16.10, 17.04 and 17.10, there would be less sense to not release images for 18.04
<flocculant> ochosi: I think knome means being built
<knome> ochosi, not so many 32-bit machines are being produced any more
<flocculant> as in machines
<ochosi> right, but even that seems like a presumption only (even though it seems sane)
<knome> ochosi, so the percentage of xubuntu machines running 32-bit OS'es will most likely decline (or "keep declining" <- judging by the torrent downloads alone, so not very scientific)
<knome> of course
<knome> as much as i'd love to see to the future, especially next weeks lottery numbers, i can't
<knome> and i thought i didn't need to explicitly state that ;)
<flocculant> I don't disagree with that point - doesn't = let's not bother with 32bit images now
<flocculant> though
<Unit193> Well, does FB/Twitter/G+ or whatever do polls?
<knome> Unit193, yeah, but so does 4chan
<knome> [:
<ochosi> yeah, i'm just wondering about less "developed" countries where we'll see lots of old machines around for a longer while
<ochosi> i mean frankly, even at my current workplace there are folks with 6+ yr old computers at home
<knome> with a 1GB+ ISO and all of the updated ubuntu core, is the newer xubuntu releases really targeting developing countries
<Unit193> knome: There is /g/!  And, well in theory users can be polled on what they use, and what their hardware supports, as well as if they plan to upgrade, no?  Gives at least a little more facts...
<knome> (like austria)
<flocculant> frankly there's one here I bought my lad for his 18th - 9 years ago
<knome> i have an old desktop as well - but it's 64-bit
<knome> so age isn't really the deciding faction here
<flocculant> no
<knome> as Unit193 just pointed out, there are newer 32-bit only computers built too
<ochosi> knome: ofc age isn't the only factor, but since you used it as basis for your argument i guess it's ok to use it the other way round too ;)
<flocculant> while I'm happy to have the discussion - to do so we need some sort of data to inform it
<knome> ochosi, where? :P
<ochosi> flocculant: +1
<Unit193> Also as long as it doesn't disappear from the archive... :P
<knome> (warning: self-irony to follow:) would that work the same way as the last survey, where we gathered a lot of data and analyzed it quickly?
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> (that said, of course i'm not opposed to gathering data)
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> there's just a dislike to analyzing it? :)
<flocculant> doesn't need to be an exhaustive set of questions does it ... 
<flocculant> like just one 64 bit Y/N 
 * knome pants already
<ochosi> yeah, and maybe the upgrade question Unit193 mentioned
<knome> and their favorite color
<flocculant> please don't mention that word :( 
<knome> flocculant, "Unit193" ?
<flocculant> upgrade
<flocculant> bah 
<flocculant> now I did 
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> dropping 32bit likely means harming the folks we write "Xubuntu at..." about
<bluesabre> I'd strongly advise against it
<knome> "don't make the noisy people angry"
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> well, not that
<knome> no?
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> don't cut off our users just because it makes things just a tad bit easier
<knome> that was never the idea though
<bluesabre> I'm reading it as, the idea is that we should drop it now because the user base is expected to be smaller in time for 18.04
<knome> that's the very b&w version :P
<bluesabre> we don't really gain anything though
<knome> less testing effort.
<flocculant> again ... 
<flocculant> stop dragging testing into it 
<bluesabre> yeah, if that's the only thing we gain, I think we could stand to lose quite a bit more
<knome> flocculant, i was simply repeating what was discussed before to bluesabre.
<flocculant> if we had hundreds of people testing 64 and a handful forced to test 32 bit - that *might* be a factor
<knome> flocculant, and please don't tell me to drag testing to it since testing is an essential part of releasing/not releasing images
<knome> *not to
<flocculant> using testing as a reason to not do something is not a reasonable pov
<knome> if we have 5 people testing 32-bit and 5 64-bit, and after this move we could have 8 testing 64-bit, it's an impact
<knome> i'm not using it as a reason to not do something
<flocculant> then don't drag testing into the discussion in that way then
<knome> in what way should i drag it in then?
<knome> anyway, i was just wanting to get some discussion going
<flocculant> anyway you like *when* we have data
<knome> clearly you don't want to do that, so let's leave it at that
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for cleaning up some of the blueprints
<bluesabre> ochosi: np
<flocculant> I'm happy to have the discussion - when we have data to inform us
<flocculant> well
<ochosi> bluesabre: any bugs that we'll definitely have to fix even after the release through updates?
<knome> ochosi, we are releasing the first media manager article today, so the gmb one will be out next tuesday, when do you have time to give some input?
<ochosi> i see a few related to your apps
<flocculant> I'm happy to have the discussion whenever - but we need data for it to be meaningful
<knome> flocculant, i don't think any data can help us make a certain decision either way
<flocculant> ochosi: the blueman one maybe 
<bluesabre> ochosi: well, there's the clutter-related issues, those are annoying.  Disabled clutter in parole, disabling the camera in mugshot with the next upload (until there is an appropriate fix)
<knome> i don't disagree that data would help though
<ochosi> flocculant: is that in our hands? (haven't read yet)
<flocculant> knome: without it. it really is just a guess 
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, those are meh
<knome> flocculant, it's just a guess even with the data
<flocculant> ochosi: not afaik - there's been talk upstream on it 
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant: blueman isn't in ubuntu proper, so it might come down to us at least applying a patch
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh right - camera disable? 
<flocculant> that'll have to go on my list of things to not forget to tell people then :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: ubuntu uses something like gnome-bluetooth then?
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre > https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman/issues/488
<knome> flocculant, release notes plz :P
<bluesabre> flocculant: otherwise, you get this https://imgur.com/C7qPOWO
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea I know - I reported it :p
<bluesabre> with the patch, the "Capture from camera" option is disabled (greyed out)
<flocculant> forgot all about it - no webcam - webcam interferes with pavucontrol here ... 
<bluesabre> ochosi: ubuntu uses gnome-bluetooth, which integrates with indicator-bluetooth
<ochosi> "Ideally blueman-applet would get removed from autostart then. This could be achieved by installing it as a systemd user service that depends on the bluetooth service."
<flocculant> knome: ofc
<bluesabre> or, detect that an error occurred and handle it gracefully... :D
<bluesabre> error dialog is better than crash imo
<knome> yes
<knome> much better
<ochosi> bluesabre: that wouldn't be a crash, just blueman not being there if i understand it correctly
<ochosi> the patch seems to be what you suggest: https://gist.github.com/infirit/26048f471846199abec6
<ochosi> maybe instead of "raise exception" it could just do a print
<ochosi> then no crash, but a message in the log
<flocculant> bluesabre: what I'm not understanding now is that it only appears to be on 32 bit images 
<flocculant> not seeing it on vm's and PaulW2U_ checked on hardware earlier 
<knome> ochosi, are you ignoring my question?
<ochosi> knome: no, just postponing it (it's further down the priority queue)
<bluesabre> flocculant: might be something with systemd, a race condition, or something else
<flocculant> ok
<knome> ochosi, fair enough, and i understand it is, but it's high in the marketing team priority, so i would prefer if you actually could get to it before next week
<flocculant> I'll say that like I understand :p
<ochosi> knome: also, as i previously said, i'm not really a good candidate for input one of those articles as i'm not using my xubuntu computers to play music (or even media) anymore
<knome> ochosi, as i told you before, i'd mostly want your input on talking a bit about the shimmer layout for gmb
<knome> ochosi, most other questions you can answer to with oneliners that take a minute to answer
<ochosi> knome: right, i can talk about it from a historical perspective :)
<knome> ochosi, creating the layout is history...
<bluesabre> this patch is probably fine https://gist.github.com/infirit/26048f471846199abec6 - disables the version checking where the error happens, or could wrap the code in a try/except block for neatness (that's what I would probably do)
<knome> first article published
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/news/my-media-manager-clementine/
<knome> pleia2, will you help me social media that ^ ?
<pleia2> you blog too much
<knome> :(
<pleia2> (I kid, I kid!)
<flocculant> evening pleia2 :)
<pleia2> o/ flocculant 
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks for linking the bug - I'll patch something together and toss it into -staging for preliminary review
<ochosi> pleia2: haha
<knome> tweeted
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke
<knome> ochosi, and you blog too little
<knome> :P
<knome> (i no kid)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, try except sounds sane here. that patch is a bit crude (but at least identifies the important portion of code)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, "ochosi bloglittle"
<pleia2> G+ and fb done
<knome> pleia2, thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, more social mediaing tomorrow!
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup, hence my slightly different patch which I'll get together lately :)
<bluesabre> *later
<knome> haha
<knome> 1) knome sends a mail to the dev list telling tracker.x.o -> dev.x.o
<knome> 2) next mail: tracker.x.o doesn't work!
<knome> reading and comprehension skills are underrated :(
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> a redirect from tracker to dev would not be such a bad thing, but not many should be familiar with tracker
<knome> puckz, you should talk with pleia2 about xubuntu.se... (i'll happily follow the discussion too)
 * knome points bluesabre to pleia2, she told me that it's ok to drop tracker.x.o 
<knome> ;)
<puckz> knome Thanks! So you figured out that it was registered by me?! :-D
<pleia2> "people who would miss tracker know where to go to find the new one"
<pleia2> puckz: you told us in -offtopic yesterday
<knome> puckz, i see your mail in the moderation queue too
<puckz> pleia2 knome :-)
<pleia2> puckz: to be honest it makes me a bit uncomfortable, Canonical owns the trademarks and things, and we have to be careful about how people portray Xubuntu, but I'm very glad you came here to talk to us :)
<pleia2> I'm thinking maybe we should have stock content that we have people localize
<pleia2> but I'm at work now, so I should do that
<flocculant> done for Tuesday - night all :)
<pleia2> night flocculant 
<knome> night flocculant 
<bluesabre> night flocculant
<puckz> pleia2: Ask before is much better than have to delete afterwards, right? :-)
<puckz> flocculant: GN!
<pleia2> puckz: I certainly appreciate it :)
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-web-translations
<knome> that's an excerpt from a PM last night
<knome> which could have totally been in this channel, but because it was 2:30am...
<knome> i've proposed the same before, so not a surprise that has been kept secret either
<pleia2> knome: yeah, that
<knome> making translating the whole site possible doesn't feel like a sensible/reachable target at this point
<knome> otoh, getting what's proposed on the pad could even happen as fast as for 16.04 release
<puckz> knome: Was the link for me? "Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again."
<knome> puckz, what's your LP ID?
<puckz> knome: LP ID? #rookie :-D
<knome> launchpad ID/username
<knome> (do you have one?)
<knome> ~pfalk?
<ochosi> knome: happy?
<knome> ochosi, maybe
<puckz> knome: Yes, pfalk
<knome> ochosi, no favorite artists?
<knome> puckz, try loading the pad url again
<puckz> knome: I'm in
<knome> ochosi, i'll just pre-fill vengaboys and gÃ¼nther for you then
<ochosi> knome: ok, really done now
<knome> ochosi, on a more serious note: thank you (and see, it didn't take that long)
<ochosi> knome: yeah yeah ;)
<ochosi> anyway, sorry for taking so much poking :p
 * knome shrugs
<knome> you are one week early, so i'm good
<ochosi> but wouldn't you say it was totally worth it?
<knome> well
<knome> i guess
<knome> ;)
<knome> not as much as some of the pixel pushing we've done
 * knome tries to build up the "we" spirit again
<bluesabre> the xubuntu-artwork we is a great one!
 * bluesabre helps
<knome> The Great 1
<Unit193> bluesabre: You couldn't hit that xfwm bug either, right?
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't spent much time trying to recreate
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-March/016366.html that one.
<knome> puckz, we'll totally mail the -devel list when we have something done
<knome> likely need some togeter time with pleia2 and slickymaster 
<knome> which has been tight lately
<bluesabre> Unit193: I might comment on that bug
<puckz> knome: ok
<bluesabre> "There has not been a release since that commit, so there is no previous version of xfwm4."
<bluesabre> Unit193: you said debian picked up the patch though, right?
<bluesabre> (maybe?)
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: In VCS, but as of yet unuploaded...
<Unit193> [04:10:23] < KGB-1> * debian/patches
<Unit193> [04:10:23] < KGB-1>   - 0001-Only-check-for-known-buttons-in-_NET_WM_MOVERESIZE added, fix xfwm4
<Unit193> [04:10:23] < KGB-1>   freeze when clicking on the menu bar of KDE application.    closes: #819228
<bluesabre> I'll see if I can reproduce, and possibly get a package up for that this week
<Unit193> FWIW, you can cheat and do a 'debian unreleased vcs' thing. ;)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, since i'm going away for about a week i had to do it today anyway to be on time ;)
<bluesabre> Unit193: not familiar with that, but might be worth my while
<ochosi> knome: and yeah, trying to be around more for that and the general "we" thing (within my limits)
<knome> :)
<ochosi> anyway, gotta catch some sleep again finally, long day tomorr
<ochosi> ow
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<ochosi> night everyone!
<Unit193> G'night.
<Unit193> bluesabre: It'd be something like http://paste.openstack.org/show/Oku1xusK44vhCuNF07c9
<Unit193> flocculant, bluesabre: In staging, can upload if ACK'd.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-30
<bluesabre> Unit193: great! I'll test that out in a vm and give you the go ahead once I have it :)
<bluesabre> vm's gotta update, this might take a while
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks good to me, might want to make it close that bug while you're at it
<Unit193> Mmmmm, right.
<bluesabre> found the bug flocculant was having in mugshot
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> (stupid typo by me)
<Unit193> Hah, niiice.  And sure, will upload now.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks!
<bluesabre> (grabbed an extra comma with the split, making home phone always edited https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk/revision/209)
<Unit193> bluesabre: How's your MOTU application going?
<bluesabre> Unit193: it's not currently
<Unit193> :(
<bluesabre> haven't had much time to work on it
<bluesabre> mainly been doing bug fixes, research, or sleeping
<bluesabre> Unit193: good work on the xfwm upload
<Unit193> Sure.
<bluesabre> flocculant: uploaded a new, fixed mugshot to -staging
<bluesabre> flocculant: think I have a fix for blueman, I might upload it tonight if I can get a preliminary test in
<bluesabre> its not a great fix, but likely acceptable
<bluesabre> flocculant: patched blueman also uploaded to -staging - if we could get some 32/64 testing with/without bluetooth hardware, we can confirm the patch and propose it for ubuntu
<bluesabre> flocculant: with your approval on mugshot, I'll do a new release and start the upload process tomorrow... next up, catfish fix for UTC
<bluesabre> but now its bed time
<bluesabre> night all
<dkessel> Can anyone fix the typo in the clementine article? "and and run => "and runs"
<flocculant> dkessel knome : fixed that typo
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> morning Unit193 :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: mugshot in normal user - can change face without issue, changing phone number requires password which fails
<flocculant> added blueman to this install - not seen it pop up yet - but yesterday it appeared that 64bit was no longer seeing it anyway
<Unit193> In case you didn't see, "new" xfwm.
<flocculant> added your new one to 32bit vm
<flocculant> restarted the vm - got the blueman crash there
<flocculant> Unit193: yea I saw it ^^ then I saw it in updates as well :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've not got 32bit hardware to test that on - at least not quickly, can look when I'm back from work
<flocculant> bluesabre: 32 bit then - forgot it only takes a couple of mins to install on ssd - installed - got the bm crash - updated to ppa version, rebooted - left it for 10 minutes - no crash
<flocculant> can't confirm 64 bit anywhere - as it's disappeared there
<flocculant> on another note - don't believe Software when it says it's installed a package ... seems not
<flocculant> 32bit vm left with new version - not crashing 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, Can confirm that the Blueman error still affects the 32bit image
<bluesabre> flocculant: so 32bit... crash or no crash (confused)
<bluesabre> flocculant: phone numbers, probably the only thing I can do there is disable those when a user is not in sudoers... but I'll try a few things and disable them if not possible
<bluesabre> (since it sounds like everything else should be good now)
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> I see akxwi-dave's comment now
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<bluesabre> flocculant, akxwi-dave: is it the same crash (Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out)?
<akxwi-dave> give me 2 mins.. I'll restart the VM.. testing it as we speak
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: thanks!
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre, yep   thats the error
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: thanks, I'll take a closer look tonight
<knome> dkessel, and nuns tooo
<Unit193> gtk+3.0 3.20.1-1 just hit experimental.
<krytarik> bluesabre: Just "details = line.split(':')[4].split(',')" seems to be the proper way there though?
<bluesabre> krytarik: possibly, but for some reason I was forcing it down before .split(',', 3) so I just did that a bit better
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> but by doing that, I drop home phone alltogether
<krytarik> Yep.
<bluesabre> lovely
<bluesabre> thanks for catching that
<knome> what's home phone?
<knome> :P
<krytarik> Sure.
<bluesabre> null
<bluesabre> krytarik: fix pushed
<bluesabre> eh
<bluesabre> diverged
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> krytarik: now its pushed :D
<krytarik> Yep, noticed. \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i already received a bugreport against greybird (for not supporting 3.20 yet) a few weeks ago. so this'll soon be even more fun
<knome> ochosi, should i file you a bug saying greybird doesn't support 3.22 yet?!
<flocculant> bluesabre: with the NEW package from staging > NO crash - sorry for confusion - I ended up with enough time before work
 * flocculant reports that greybird doesn't support flocculant and he has to work for money 
<knome> :(
<bluesabre> :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: but blueman news is good :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes, except it still crashes for akxwi-dave, so I'll be poking it more later
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you get fails using the staging version? 
<flocculant> reads to me like he's talking about the image - which still fails 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^
<bluesabre> it *shouldn't* crash, at least not with that error, so the patch catches that error and basically ignores it
<bluesabre> s/so/since
<flocculant> bluesabre: are you saying that the iso version shouldn't crash? 
<flocculant> well - when I say crash I mean apport gets called
<bluesabre> flocculant: no, the -staging version should not crash
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<bluesabre> flocculant, akxwi-dave: ^ :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so this got very confusing 
<flocculant> I have the error with the iso - if I grab staging and install that I don't have the error
<flocculant> I installed 32bit on hardware - grabbed staging - I don't have the error
<flocculant> all we need is for akxwi-dave to confirm that he's JUST looking at the iso version
<bluesabre> flocculant: ok good :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: though I am making the assumption that installing the fixed version on live then logging out, in and restarting bluetooth should trigger the isse
<bluesabre> things in this channel have been more on the confusing/edgy side lately
<bluesabre> but I'm glad we're clear on this topic :D
<flocculant> yea - I really should wait till the afternoon before I do these things ... but I like to get them done earlier enough for you to see some sort of response asap
<flocculant> and tbh - getting this fixed makes the boot the live *look* better than with a bug showing all the time :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: that should trigger the issue, also installing the fixed version, rebooting, and logging in should trigger the issue
<flocculant> now I'm really confused :(
<flocculant> reboot a vm from the live and you're back where you started
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> ammended:
<bluesabre> install the vm, reboot, see bug, install fixed package, reboot, see no bug
<flocculant> oh right
 * bluesabre is confusing today
<flocculant> that makes sense - I can do that later - but I did do that on hardware and that works fine
 * bluesabre will wear headphones and avoid people at work today
<knome> hah
<flocculant> unless you're just wanting to confirm the fix in virtual as well as hardware - which is fine by me
<flocculant> hey knome 
<knome> hello flocculant 
<knome> (again)
 * flocculant tried headphones at work once - didn't hear the fire engine right behind me :p
<flocculant> talking of which - toodle pip :)
<knome> hah
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you want vm  install fix confirmation - let me and akxwi-dave know and the first one to it will :)
<knome> i was told that the baby screamed very loud this morning at 6am
<knome> right next to me
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> but i didn't wake up...
<knome> no headphones whatsoever
<flocculant> or should that be 
<flocculant> HA HA HA 
<bluesabre> flocculant: actually testing it myself right now
<flocculant> knome: you're doing that right - second lesson in fatherhood - don't hear the baby :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke - have a good day with the 'phones on :p
<akxwi-dave> sorry back from Lunch..... yes it was Just The ISO i was looking at
<knome> flocculant, did you allow akxwi-dave lunch breaks already?
<knome> lazy leading
<akxwi-dave> sneeked out when he wasn't looking
<bluesabre> seems fixed for me in an installed 32bit xenial vm
<bluesabre> time for work, bbl
<akxwi-dave> cya.. just testing todays now as well
<akxwi-dave> http://i.imgur.com/JUDhjls.png  this is from todays ISO image.. plain live iso session
<akxwi-dave> 32bit that is
<flocculant> knome: see he admitted sneeking off
<dkessel> meh. typo fixes in the docs last week? *sigh*
<dkessel> oh well - still more complete than finnish :p
<dkessel> ... or not? what page have i just looked at? i need to get away from the screen
<knome> flocculant, yep...
<knome> dkessel, i haven't translated the contributor docs at all, so maybe that's the difference :)
<flocculant> knome: evening :)
<flocculant> I'm going to add video of running on the spot while testing an installed version and running a vm of daily to http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-team.html
<flocculant> then leave :p
<knome> huh
<flocculant> to deal with the sneaking off 
<knome> :P
<flocculant> "this is what we need" 
<flocculant> hoping to get ochosi do that with 32 bit 
<ochosi> flocculant: do what with 32 bit?
<flocculant> a "video of running on the spot while testing an installed version and running a vm of daily "
<Noskcaj> Is anyone able to test if https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=812804 affects xenial?
<ubottu> Debian bug 812804 in blueman "blueman: File transfer does not work through tray icon menu" [Normal,Fixed]
<flocculant> Noskcaj: not seen any references to that issue
<Noskcaj> flocculant, neither, but i don't see why it would work in ubuntu but not debian
<flocculant> even so
<flocculant> are we going to drag around various bug trackers looking for things that *might* affect us? 
<Noskcaj> I just noticed a merge i had my name on, it's bugfix only, so if there's a reason to merge it i'd like to.
<flocculant> talk to bluesabre perhaps
<flocculant> would be better to see if anyone is actually being affected 
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
 * bluesabre totally thinks we should have screenshots on our blog posts
<Unit193> Ooooh!  You going to shoot some?
<bluesabre> I'd be in favor of taking screenshots of having text-only blog posts when talking about "the small details"
<bluesabre> supposed to be an "instead" in there somewhere :D
<bluesabre> after idling for half a day, my patched blueman is not running away with memory in a 32bit vm, so that seems acceptable
<knome> bluesabre, i'm happy to do those, and even edit already published posts
<knome> bluesabre, but i don't think my time/motivation can stretch to take the screenshots myself
<bluesabre> knome: happy to help out :)
<knome> also, we're publishing the menu editing article on friday, maybe you want to see if it's sane at all ;)
<bluesabre> knome: I'll see about reviewing it tonight/tomorrow
<knome> flocculant went through it already, so it's two of us now, but more eyes never hurt, especially from the app author
<knome> (maybe you want to highlight something that's less known) 
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> alrighty, think I'll upload my blueman fix now
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> new blueman in the archive
<bluesabre> uploaded 2 hours ago
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, we'll need to check that I suppose before I try adding a patch
<bluesabre> going to review it myself a bit tonight
<knome> allright, going to bed
<knome> good night and ttyl :)
<bluesabre> nighty knome
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-31
<bluesabre> great, bug exists in new version
<bluesabre> flocculant: uploaded today's new blueman package along with my patch.. if accepted, tomorrow should look better
<bluesabre> flocculant: new mugshot in -staging... did what I could, phone numbers are now disabled for non-sudoers (same limitation as in the Users & Groups app)
<bluesabre> flocculant: if you can spot check that, I'm planning on doing a new release of it tomorrow which I will then upload
<bluesabre> personal goal of having things uploaded before april 1 :)
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: new "catfish-daily" package in https://code.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/ubuntu/ppa should resolve the localtime vs UTC issues you were seeing
<bluesabre> night all
<flocculant> bluesabre: with blueman -  2.0.4-1ubuntu1 from repos - get the crash
<flocculant> that doesn't fix what your patch does
<flocculant> bluesabre: mugshot - normal user can change anything that isn't disabled, including .face, added admin user can do as much as original admin user can - looks good to me - thanks :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: your fix should be in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/2.0.4-1ubuntu2
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, new mugshot and catfish packages to be uploaded tonight
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, tried to get the daily package to test catfish but could not add the ppa. Comm error retrieving the key.
<flocculant> bluesabre: cool
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: You can go to package details on the ppa and download the .deb if you want
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I didn't realize that. Unfortunately I won't be able to do it until this evening and that might be too late to help you.
<flocculant> knome: I have gone through the existing unpublished small details posts now - and there is a draft panel one for me to fill in properly
<knome> flocculant, cool
<flocculant> knome: ahah - question for you :)
<flocculant> Panel layout switching < switching? what do you mean by that? 
<knome> flocculant, the idea was to highlight the xfpanel-switcher
<knome> flocculant, and if the article wasn't too long at that point, maybe quickly talk about creating one
<flocculant> oh rightio - that wasn't immediately obvious :)
<knome> sorry... :P
<flocculant> no worries :)
 * knome should work a bit on the wiki and the draft articles
<ochosi> evening everyone
<ochosi> just to let y'all know, i'll be gone (holidays) till wednesday
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<flocculant> and have a good one :D
<knome> ochosi, where to?
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> returning to venice
<ochosi> knome: just an idea, for the media manager articles, adding some screenshots would be nice
<knome> flocculant, https://xubuntu.org/?p=3766&preview=true
<knome> ochosi, o'rly? thanks for volunteering ;)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> knome: wondered why it looked familiar ... then remembered :p
<knome> flocculant, hahah
<knome> flocculant, it's cleaned up now and ready for publishing
<flocculant> Do X and Y ? 
<knome> refresh
<knome> i just changed that...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> yup - looks good
<ochosi> knome: yeah, as i said, going on holidays, practically left already ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: first holiday with 3 of you? 
<knome> ochosi, too bad then ;)
<ochosi> flocculant: yup
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> my first was 3 months old when we took gim to family in spain 
<flocculant> him
<knome> gim...
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, we waited a little longer (plus we don't have family there, just friends ;))
<ochosi> anywho, have fun everyone, ochosi out
<knome> have fun
<knome> because it's going to end when you get back
<knome> :D
<flocculant> knome: https://xubuntu.org/?p=3830&preview=true
<flocculant> it is so good to not see that blueman crash \o/ 
<knome> :)
<knome> just close your eyes..
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> knome: just one point re the menu edit post ... why  go to Menu â Settings Manager â Menu Editor and not right click on menu select edit apps 
<knome> flocculant, what do you mean
<knome> ;P
<knome> (refresh draft)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I can understand the plodding way in the docs :p
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-01
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I can confirm the fix for local time vs. UTC in catfish-daily
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: awesome, thanks!
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, going to make it at a time I can make the meeting this time? :P
<bluesabre> maybe
<Unit193> Just now seeing that there's a new xfdashboard, I'm on it.
<bluesabre> Unit193: :)
<Unit193> I should likely just drop the dbg package ni that one.
<bluesabre> productive night
<bluesabre> I'll update PPAs this weekend, definitely done for now
<Unit193> Well good job then!
<bluesabre> knome: which article is published tomorrow? I'll give it another review as needed
 * bluesabre expects to wake up to news about GTK4, Webkit Firefox, and an Xfce phone
<bluesabre> night all
<knome> bluesabre, the schedule is here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-x-community; so, menu  editing
<Unit193> bluesabre: xfwm4 4.12.3-2 uploaded to Debian.
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> knome: ok
<bluesabre> Unit193: actually saw this time :D
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> knome: the menu editing article looks good to me
<knome> bluesabre, did you want some screenshots there? :P
<bluesabre> knome: want to use any of the screenshots on https://smdavis.us/2015/08/20/menulibre-2-0-7-and-2-1-0-released/ ?
<knome> i guess i'd prefer wallpaperless
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> give me a bit, got a nice non-standard setup that I don't want to re-setup
<knome> lol
<knome> new user :P
<bluesabre> virtualbox
<knome> still
<knome> new user
<knome> :P
<knome> that's what i use for translation stuff
<knome> when i need to check something..
<bluesabre> knome: what would you like screenshots of? how many would you like?
 * knome shrugs
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/bwe6wRq
<knome> looks good
<bluesabre> oh wait
<knome> haha :)
<bluesabre> that does not have transparent rounded edge
<bluesabre> something you want?
<knome> don't think that's a huge issue, but if you want to take the time..
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/a/BO5h7
<knome> want to use both or just the other?
<knome> oh, it's a search
<knome> right
<knome> wp says you are editing the article - are you?
<knome> might be some cache too
<bluesabre> no longer editing
<bluesabre> two more pics in a sec
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/WU9wxHM
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/t8VNJV5
<bluesabre> that should be everything you might need
<knome> k
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3766&preview=true
<knome> no nice urls yet?
<bluesabre> nope, been busy with other stuff
<knome> boo :)
<knome> not even mice urls?
<bluesabre> nope, too cheesy
<bluesabre> article looks good
<bluesabre> time to get ready for work, bbl
<Unit193> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 1.5.2-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<knome> Unit193, that black on black looks very... black
<Unit193> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 1.5.2-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<knome> better
<Unit193> knome: See -ot, noticed but hoped if I stayed quiet nobody else would notice. >_>
<knome> aha
<knome> :P
<Unit193> xubuntu-community-wallpapers should just be a dep package. >_>
<knome> slickymaster, one thing it could be about is the website translations proposal
<knome> (the same i did before)
<knome> slickymaster, this one: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-web-translations
 * slickymaster checks the pad
<slickymaster> so just the local pages will be translatable, right?
<knome> yes, just that one paeg
<knome> page too
<slickymaster> and pretty much close to the flyer, content wise
<knome> at least in the beginning
<knome> as long as we make sure the page isn't release-specific or mention too many time-based things, it doens't matter if some languages have an "old" translation
<slickymaster> right
<slickymaster> do you have any idea of the universe of local pages there is now, knome 
<slickymaster> ?
<knome> none
<slickymaster> most of local pages are mainly about Ubuntu
<knome> right...
<knome> i don't think there is a centralized effort like this
 * slickymaster never come across with a Xubuntu one
<knome> everybody is doing what they feel like is the best for their local audience
<knome> http://xubuntu.fr/
<knome> and now puckz has registered xubuntu.se
<knome> i am pretty sure there was a russian page too, but at least xubuntu.ru isn't working right now
<slickymaster> I was doing a quick search on Google just got this â http://xubuntu.br.uptodown.com/ubuntu
<slickymaster> which isn't even Xubuntu solely
<knome> yeah, there are a lot of "generic" pages
<slickymaster> that was a search in PT.pt and PT.br
<slickymaster> I can start a draft of that local page next week knome 
<knome> okay
<slickymaster> little one will be in school then, so I'll have more time to do it
<knome> :)
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> flocculant: Trying out Core again, hopefully the installer doesn't crash. :/
<flocculant> let's hope so :)
<flocculant> it did the other day 
<knome> flocculant, crashed?
<flocculant> same issue as before
<Unit193> flocculant: Waaaait, it didn't crash!
<flocculant> \o/
<Unit193> (It finished fine, gave the option to reboot, I clicked, vbox ate ram like a fat guy after a box of cookies and froze.  Resetting the VM still worked fine.)
<knome> Unit193, D:
<flocculant> :)
 * flocculant has a go
<flocculant> in a bit when I have the iso ... 
<flocculant> Unit193: DID YOU GET RANDOM QUESTION ABOUT KEYBOARD LAYOUT?
<flocculant> oops
<Unit193> ...Keyboard layout?
<flocculant> yea 
<Unit193> Just the normal one in the installer.
<flocculant> nooooo
<flocculant> something new on me :p
<flocculant> when it's cooked I'll start it off again and screenshot it :)
<flocculant> cos when I said No - no uk keyboard layout in the list ;)
<flocculant> installed - did the normal vbox thing of failing to restart :p
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> I'll just grab these screenshots 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/Kht2Hau.png
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/Mcb8huc.png
<flocculant> if I do the Detect layout it finds UK in the right pane from somewhere :) http://i.imgur.com/6X5c050.png
<flocculant> Unit193: but it does install :)
<Unit193> Wut?  That's weird, I did not see that at all.  I was in the live session though.
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> I think I booted to install
<flocculant> 2 seconds 
<flocculant> or a biiit longer ... 
<flocculant> *think*
<flocculant> no different - same thing
<flocculant> Unit193: try telling it you're not in the US
<flocculant> I tried pretending to be a yank in yankland - don't see it then
<Unit193> But that's a lie!
<flocculant> well I lied too 
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> so if you pretend to be a russki in yakutsk - it thinks you want a US keyboard :p
<Unit193> ...Doesn't everyone want en_US?!
<flocculant> pick India - and you get the message - but it assumes you want US
<Unit193> Heh, well at least it installs. :P
<flocculant> so something is wrong somewhere there - maybe tied in with bug 
<flocculant> yea for sure :)
<flocculant> bug 1549529
<ubottu> bug 1549529 in casper (Ubuntu) "The keyboard is still installed as US-English even if another language is selected during the installation" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549529
<flocculant> oddities with languages 
<flocculant> anyway - sorry :(
<Unit193> Noo, that's fine, considering Desktop never had the installer problem.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> certainly looking better for 16.04.1 I guess :)
<flocculant> you'll notice I hope the certainty in the .1 :D
<Unit193> Well, everything seems good for the "community" release of it still!  I'm just happy about that, really.  Was thinking it'd not be easy to install.  So that, and a bug in something else from all of last cycle is fixed too.
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> I just really would like to see it brought into the warm really - makes setting testing up so much simpler
<flocculant> and I'd like to see it available via 'canonical' for people too 
<flocculant> but as you say - it's working again so that's good :)
 * flocculant starts upgrade 14.04 test off 
<Unit193> flocculant: That's also to say, thanks very much for helping to test it, more so since it's not an official build.  And have fun with the trusty upgrade. :3
<flocculant> yw anytime :)
<flocculant> let's see if it get's past udev 
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> knome: is it voting time now?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you see -session now favors light-locker in Debian?  (Or, will with the next upload.)
<bluesabre> indeed!
<Unit193> Likely due to that bug I linked.. :/
 * bluesabre high fives Unit193
<Unit193> Hmm?
 * bluesabre is left hanging!
 * Unit193 admits to having no idea what's going on now.
 * bluesabre is freaking out now
<flocculant> calm down dear
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=819703#109 to be precise.
<ubottu> Debian bug 819703 in xscreensaver "xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message" [Normal,Open]
<flocculant> ha 
<flocculant> not seen that for a long time :)
<Unit193> I meant the specific message.
<flocculant> *I* meant  "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" 
<Unit193> Yeeeeah, nice to not see that one.
<flocculant> :)
<knome> pleia2, helloooo! social media time :)
<knome> published article and tweeted
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/Vamqj6u.png
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ might please you
<Unit193> That seemed to have worked.  Also, that's a GUI thingy.
<flocculant> update-manager -d -c
<flocculant> being the one which has consistently failed and caused me to go finding the wiki warning thing :)
<flocculant> knome: just so you and ochosi know - I still think we should let communiyt vote 
<flocculant> just saying
<knome> ack
<flocculant> knome: appears you have to login an pretend to get the vote option? 
<flocculant> no other way to login
<knome> yes, you have to login
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-02
<flocculant> sigh - no - I'd take this, but not for *all* button
<flocculant> or
<flocculant> neutral :p
<knome> hmm?
<flocculant> there's more than 1 for sure
<knome> than one what? :)
<pleia2> been socialmediaed
<knome> pleia2, ta
<bluesabre> flocculant: woot!
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - pleased there :)
<flocculant> looking pretty good now :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: so just some 'really small subsubsubscript' menulibre things I think 
<flocculant> one at least I think can be 'opinion' d :)
<flocculant> bug 1513590 - pretty sure we said that wasn't a bug ?
<ubottu> bug 1513590 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "unable to delete items in menulibre" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513590
<flocculant> bug 1515184 - can't confirm now - perhaps close it 
<ubottu> bug 1515184 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Crash when selecting a category in a new entry" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515184
<flocculant> then thunar
<flocculant> if we still get all these bugs there - should we start looking elsewhere when we move to 16.10? 
<flocculant> and how many are really thunar and not elsewhere like gvfs etc? 
<flocculant> stuff to think about
<flocculant> if xubuntu is about giving people xfce and tools - when is one as broken as thunar is off and on - perhaps we should think outside the box here
<flocculant> until somethinks about nautilus ofc ... 
<flocculant> then thunar \o/ 
 * knome thinks outside the box and goes to bed
<knome> good night everybody and catch you later :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, thunar has been not so great for a while now... not sure if the same issues are seen in pcmanfm, and probably not in caj
<bluesabre> a
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> with pcmanfam I don't get the usb3issue iirc
<flocculant> I shouldn't have to really quickly yank the cable :) 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> it would be really swell if we could get more code contributors to xfce to fix these things :)
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> bluesabre: sigh .... I know ;)
<bluesabre> but yes, we are getting to the point that we should consider alternatives
<flocculant> asmuch as I would love to be able to say "omg I CAN fix this' I can't ... 
<bluesabre> same here
<bluesabre> unfortunately
<flocculant> so if xfce  can't - we are xubuntu not xfce
<flocculant> and do that whole - this is Xubuntu - thing
<bluesabre> yup, agreed
<flocculant> a whole cycle to think those things :)
<bluesabre> there's lots of options out there now, so this is something we should look into for 16.10
<flocculant> for sure
<flocculant> I'd really like for team to look outside now - I'd rather test foo now :p
<flocculant> !team | up dudes
<ubottu> up dudes: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> do we need a meeting soon so we can decide how to vote?
<bluesabre> it's been... a contentious topic
 * Unit193 looked outside, too dark to see things.
<Unit193> I have pcmanfm installed, but as I don't use the filemanager all that much thunar does pretty well for me.
<bluesabre> I use thunar, it crashes, I restart and remember to rename things from a terminal
<Unit193> Just played around with it for a bit, finally got one.
<Unit193> I'm guessing we already had a good stacktrace though?
<bluesabre> good stacktrace probably, but no good debuggers to figure out how to fix it
<bluesabre> I'm ok at coding, terrible at debug
<Unit193> thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in __GI___libc_free()
<Unit193> https://paste.unit193.net/?ecacb0305f88cf72#vK6jNpzOl7F3I16cDi7luRjyZ7E/EV1mhnVCpShQwp8= ? :D
<flocculant> night peeps
<bluesabre> https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-10/26/6/enhanced/webdr08/enhanced-14836-1414320930-8.jpg
<bluesabre> night flocculant
<Unit193> Mhmmmm! :D
<Unit193> Soo, do we have anyone on thunar over in Xfceland?
<bluesabre> nope, not really
<bluesabre> for me, it'd probably be easier to port caja/nemo to xfce than fix thunar
<Unit193> ...ali?
<bluesabre> could be a good person to hand it to
<Unit193> sidi?! ;P
<bluesabre> he can sandbox it, but that would make it less valuable
<bluesabre> >.>
<Unit193> And http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=029012f4c39d9d3d9ae617491a69f76f54a4192f didn't even help (or all cases?)
<Unit193> Think it's worth it to at least push that?
<bluesabre> could add a daily thunar to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa and run with it
<Unit193> Meh.
<Unit193> Also, this does fix some bugs. :3
<Unit193> bluesabre: Select a couple files â Ctrl+x â navigate to somewhere â ctrl+v  thunar should crash.  Update from PPA, repeat.
<bluesabre> it's always hit and miss for me... I can usually go a few copy+pastes/renames before it dies on me
<Unit193> Using the method I outlined seemed to hit it more.  Do you have the PPA one?
<Unit193> Should we push that, and hope it makes some of them go away (like it seems to)?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll check it out, but yeah, I think it'd be good to include
<Unit193> OK, I'll wait your order.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> now I have to actually do it in reasonable time
<bluesabre> I'll do that in the morning
<Unit193> This way flocculant can NACK it too.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> nighty all
<Unit193> G'nighty.
<knome> added featherlight popups for the submissions in the admin, so it's now easier and faster to get to see a preview
<Unit193> That's actually a lot of submissions...
<knome> quite, yeah
<knome> get voting :)
<knome> at the least, we need to make sure the team actually votes before the end of week
<knome> if we want to involve the community in a way or another, then we should get that done even faster
<Unit193> "Untitled"?  And, on it then.
<knome> yeah, there are many untitled submissions
<knome> it all actually goes relatively smoowth with this interface
<knome> -w
<knome> i didn't time my voting, but it definitely didn't feel like too long
<knome> and now it should be even faster since you have the featherlight popups :)
<knome> (i used some time to check if photos were blurry)
<Unit193> So, this voting to let them in or chose winners?
<knome> i don't know; either way, i think the team needs to pick a shortlist
<knome> eg. if the community votes, it can't be 50 options
<knome> so, either voting for things people can vote on, or if we don't end up with community voting, then it's for inclusion
<knome> i voted up anything i would be okay being included
<knome> eg. more than 6
<knome> that'd make it 11
<Unit193> Why are there planes strafing?
<knome> how would i know? :)
<knome> !team | wallpaper contest voting is open; get your votes in now!
<ubottu> wallpaper contest voting is open; get your votes in now!: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<Unit193> I have come to the conclusion I don't use normal wallpapers.  Also, I like that I can review and change my choices later, and really should.
<knome> what is "normal" anyway...
<knome> from what i've seen, many people like to use a photo they are emotionally connecting with, or some kind of mountainy view, or then just some solid color
<knome> mountainy view being something to dream of
<knome> could be a photo of a quiet beach somewhere too
<knome> you get the gist
<knome> ok, bbl
<Unit193> flocculant: If I ping you, you won't get it will you?
<bluesabre> Unit193: we could make an offline forwarding bot
<bluesabre> every time there is a ping to an offline person, they get an email :D
<Unit193> Howdy, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> hi Unit193
<petrovich> Hi there
<petrovich> Is it only me, or no one cannot upgrade his 16.04 ubuntu?
<KenstaFoo> Hello
<knome> hello
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-03
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Can I call you flocculant for now?
<flocculant> Unit193: you can call bluesabre flocculant if you want - not sure he'd want that though :p
<knome> pleia2, i won't be around much today, and it isn't high priority at this point, but what do we want to do with HTTPS for xubuntu
<knome> pleia2, for xubuntu.org of course :P
<dkessel> use let's encrypt :)
 * dkessel hides
<knome> dkessel, we have a cert already...
<knome> it's mostly just a matter of "do we want to move to HTTPS on default" and "what to do with the non-HTTPS extras.css"
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> New xubuntu-meta uploaded btw, nothing interesting.
<bluesabre> morning all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> heya Unit193
<flocculant> afternoon you two
<bluesabre> hey bluesabre
<bluesabre> I mean, flocculant
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> (figured we were trading, per Unit193's suggestion)
<Unit193> I didn't say trade.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> two flocculants
<flocculant> bluesabre: well - you'll be ok - not going to get much bug fixing going on if I'm you though :)
<bluesabre> thats more efficientz!
<bluesabre> tried to erase that z, but it was stubborn
<Unit193> Doing an upgrade test from 15.10.
<Unit193> It's...Technically in a VM but it was a real system before that.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> just did my round of voting
<Unit193> Did you vote twice?
<bluesabre> no?
<Unit193> Tsk, tsk...
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: was it this we wanted to try out? http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=029012f4c39d9d3d9ae617491a69f76f54a4192f
<Unit193> bluesabre: That looks right, it's in xubuntu-staging now.
<bluesabre> Unit193: excellent
<bluesabre> I think we no longer need gstreamer1.0-plugins-base-apps installed, can we do a few quick tests (uninstall, do things in parole) - everything seems functional for me
<bluesabre> dropping that from the seed should remove -tools and build-essential and whatnot from the image (I think)
<flocculant> bluesabre: how quick? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: any time
<bluesabre> it looks like I might be heading out shortly
<flocculant> bluesabre: purged it - everything I use for any sort of media stuff still works - video and/or audio
<flocculant> that quick enough? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: oh dang, that was too late
<bluesabre> :P
<flocculant> :(
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - what's the thunar commit supposed to fix - the losing files when copy issue? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, should reduce the crashing that happens
<flocculant> ok - I'll see if I can confirm it
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<bluesabre> if it looks to be as broken or less broken, reasonable for upload :D
<bluesabre> can't get much worse, can only get better :D
<flocculant> true enough :p
<flocculant> actually ... 
<bluesabre> uh oh
<flocculant> dkessel: do you still see bug 1512120 ?
<ubottu> bug 1512120 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashes on file renaming" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512120
<flocculant> if so - can you try thunar from staging - has fix
<flocculant> bluesabre: it's ok - I remember now - that's one of those I had problems confirming originally :)
<bluesabre> can usually reproduce just by renaming a file a few times
<flocculant> and as daniel reported it :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - not happening for me - nor previously iirc
<dkessel> thunar from staging? let me see what i have
<flocculant> 1.6.10-2ppa1~16.04 is the one we're wanting to test :)
 * flocculant gets the person who reported the same thing yesterday to try the ppa too
<flocculant> bluesabre: right - ok can confirm the bug - unfortunately - in the fixed thunar
<flocculant> hang on - the commit was for bug 11983
<ubottu> bug 11983 in firefox (Ubuntu) "filechooser dialog: double-clicking surprise" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11983
<flocculant> oh stupid
<flocculant> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11983
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11983 in general "Crash when moving files by drag and drop" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<flocculant> that's drag and drop not renaming
<flocculant> xfce 12264 is the renaming bug 
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264
<dkessel> i don't get the renaming crash anymore with the staging ppa version. but also, i could not trigger it 100% reliable. but i guess it should have happend already with the broken version after all i just did...
<flocculant> dkessel: I just did 
<flocculant> so not fixed - but don't think that commit was for that anyway 
<flocculant> Unit193 bluesabre ^^ 
<bluesabre> flocculant: drag and drop, cut paste, rename - all move functionality, all related
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so - not fixed, it just crashed on me 
<bluesabre> cool
<flocculant> I obviously didn't rename enough times previously - probably just needed one more go ... 
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah it doesn't fix everything, just thinking it helps some.
<flocculant> Unit193: right 
<Unit193> And, it does seem to.
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> I got the crash renaming 
<flocculant> I don't appear to have the crash moving - but haven't seen that for a while
<flocculant> going to be a list of thunar issues on the notes I guess
<knome> let's hope we can get stuff fixed for .1 at latest
<flocculant> knome: ack
<knome> or if possible, final release...
<knome> bluesabre, does it sound completely unrealistic that you would have time to look at the thunar bugs before release?
<knome> bluesabre, or is the problem lack of knowledge in any area required?
<bluesabre> knome: lack of knowledge, I don't have any skill with the glib/threading code that may (or may not) be at the source of the issue
<knome> do we know anybody that might know something about that, even outside xfce?
<bluesabre> knome: probably the easiest thing to do, is go back to thunar 1.6.3~ish and cherry pick important patches
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-27
<knome> ochosi, pleia2: since gabor is very graciously sending us the women's t-shirts too, we should figure out a way to spread these polos to people who want them
<knome> (as i already mentioned in a mail)
<knome> "hey, we have a contest for l-sized males"
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> ++
<knome> or if somebody from the team is in that size and shape, i'd be fine with them getting one as well
<pleia2> should sit on them for a bit though, I'm a bit contested out
<knome> lol
<ochosi> oh, i already gave my extra polo to schuellerf, who has been contributing to xfce as of lately
<ochosi> i presumed my email would be the end of it
<knome> oh, that's fine as well :)
<pleia2> ochosi: yay, that's a good use of it :)
<knome> maybe ask him for a photo of him wearing it
<knome> yeah, better than shirts sitting in a closet
<knome> tbh, the polo i got is already pretty good fit for me (and i'm hopefully getting smaller), but i really don't like piques (that's what they really are), so i'll give it away anyway
<pleia2> even if mine wasn't too big, I don't think I've ever worn a polo
<knome> :P
<knome> sameish
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> same here tbh
<knome> !team | anyone who's size L and want a black men's pique polo shirt with a xubuntu logo in it?
<ubottu> anyone who's size L and want a black men's pique polo shirt with a xubuntu logo in it?: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<akxwi-dave> Wish I was an L... probably more like an XL..    :-)   (I like beer too much)
<Unit193> I'm an American L at least..
<knome> akxwi-dave, i definitely thought i'd be at least an XL too (though i didn't really measure as i thought we'd get women's t-shirts), but it turned out the L fit me okay
<knome> akxwi-dave, exact measures here: https://www.hellotux.com/xubuntu_polo_shirt_black
<flocculant> knome: I'll take one if there's one left
<knome> have 2, one at my place, one at pleia2's
<knome> Unit193, did that mean you'd want one, or just telling your size? :P
<Unit193> I fit the criteria at least.
<knome> just please say if you want one or not
<knome> it's nothing to be ashamed of if you want something once in a while
<knome> it's not like we're constantly sending you stuff
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-28
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: no booty 64 bit today ... and bst means no ubuntu from today yet - if you get chance have a look at ubuntu see if that boots later
<PaulW2U> flocculant: Both 64 and 32 bit images for today boot here. On hardware. Don't do VMs.
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: both iso's boot fine here 
<akxwi-dave> using  qemu/kvm
<akxwi-dave> Ubuntu 64 boots fine as well from todays iso
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> ok thanks PaulW2U akxwi-dave 
<flocculant> definitely not working here on qemu
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  i've been using zsync here at home to get the iso..  I'll quickly download by  http and check that
<akxwi-dave> new http download iso works as well..
<flocculant> *shrug*
<flocculant> still fails here - makes the next few weeks real easy for me ;)
<flocculant> updated kernel in the meantime too
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: 32 bit works - 64 bit fails to run even on a new vm - no idea what's up there lol
<akxwi-dave> ouch  not good.. i'm using the same methods as you (your scripts to be precise..
<flocculant> this is built with the virt machine manager - not running from commands 
 * flocculant can't even remember those lol
<akxwi-dave> yup those ones .. the boots alias and  kvm commands to start em up
<flocculant> found notes :)
<flocculant> trying that
<flocculant> :D
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/fZV2nIy.png
<flocculant> maybe it's me dragging kernels from proposed :D
<akxwi-dave> you tried just uding the iso to boot withour the vm runnung?
<flocculant> kvm -m 2048 -hda /mnt/Data/KVM/xub64.qcow2  -cdrom /mnt/Data/iso/Xubuntu/17.04/kvm/zesty-desktop-amd64.iso -boot d -smp 1
<akxwi-dave> try just kvm -m 2048 -cdrom /mnt/Data/iso/Xubuntu/17.04/kvm/zesty-desktop-amd64.iso
<flocculant> same ;)
<akxwi-dave> wierder
<flocculant> killed the oldest kernel I had yesterday as well - all I have now is current and -proposed
<flocculant> boots older than that zesty :p
<flocculant> bbs
<akxwi-dave> kk
<flocculant> oh boo - what did I do to this install lol
<flocculant> actually - looks like dodgy iso
<flocculant> ugh
<flocculant> kernel panic again :D
<flocculant> well that at least proves it's local to me :D
<flocculant> akxwi-dave PaulW2U - dodgy virtual drive :)
<flocculant> thanks chaps :)
<flocculant> knome: when are we getting 17.04 slideshow btw?
<knome> the "new" stuff is in main, just need an upload
<knome> should push for one this week
<flocculant> okey doke
<knome> ugh, we are that late in the cycle
<knome> but yeah, i'll take care of it...
<flocculant> yup
<knome> we only updated the version number and some other typos
<flocculant> no changes to wording? 
<knome> hmm, new version uploaded 19 hours ago
<knome> flocculant, ^ says 17.04, so our updates are in
<knome> (thanks cyphermox!)
<flocculant> more than typos then :p
<flocculant> I'll check that in the morning
<knome> it's too long since we did the changes, i don't even remember what i've pushed :P
<knome> but yeah, it should be in...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> obviously wasn't at 2am :D
<knome> probably 3am ;)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<cyphermox> knome: ah, awesome thanks for letting me know :)
<knome> we really should get our stuff together :D
<knome> or maybe more people should be allowed uploads on that package *cough* bluesabre *cough*
<Unit193> cyphermoxâ® Thanks for the mail too. :P
<cyphermox> bah, the translations are always an issue for this
<knome> yeah.
<knome> again, it would help if more people could upload it -> would likely mean more uploads early enough
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hullo
<bluesabre> knome, cyphermox, awesome you guys :)
<cyphermox> bluesabre: hey hey
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-29
<bluesabre> cyphermox, heya
<flocculant> knome: apart from a cow on the slideshow it looks ok 
<knome> flocculant, that'll have to slip...
<flocculant> knome: I guessed that - normal for art ;) I assume not slipping past 13th April though :D
<knome> well, i don't know
<knome> :P
<knome> i'll have to see...
<flocculant> personally couldn't care if there's an animal on there or not :)
<knome> yep
<knome> it's nice to have but it's a lot of work and if nobody seems to have the time...
<flocculant> yea for sure
<flocculant> and not many people doing it either
<flocculant> eg you :D
<knome> ;)
<knome> anyway, bbl
<knome> astraljava+1 is popping over
<knome> -->
<flocculant> maybe we should think about opening art up to the community - early in the cycle - see what comes up
<knome> i'm open to that (no pun intended), as long as we make clear the art direction is chosen by the team (or the artwork team more specifically) etc etc bureaucratic things
<knome> the problem with this has been for us - and other ubuntu teams - that the submission quality isn't always the best, or the stuff isn't suitable or something else
<flocculant> yea - wouldn't want it any other way
<knome> or that there aren't a lot of submission to start with...
<flocculant> of course
<knome> the worst situation with this is that we end up not using any submissions
<flocculant> obviously asking for contributions the week before we want them doesn't help
<knome> this means we both don't get any help with the workload but we make more work for ourselves
<knome> and that we then potentially (and likely) have to deal with explaining why none of it was accepted
<knome> yeah
<knome> but one recent example is the #lovexubuntu competition
<flocculant> yup
<knome> that had *very* low threshold to join/submit, but we didn't end up getting that many submissions
<flocculant> hence the bit in between the - - above :)
<knome> well again, remember that the #lovexubuntu contest was open for many months too
<knome> and still we only got that much material
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> the wallpaper contests we've ran have been "okay"
<knome> i mean, there could have been more submissions
<knome> i'm so happy we limited submissions per user though
<knome> and would probably crank that down even more with the next wallpaper contest
<knome> but then again community wallpapers are something we ship *in addition* to the default one
<flocculant> just wonder if perhaps we call wallpaper early - using the same 'process' as last time - that's perhaps something we can not worry too much about?
<knome> so from the team's POV, their perceived quality doesn't need to be as great as for something that goes into the installer slideshow
<flocculant> but then again - why not choose 1 - default 2 - remaining community set from the submissions? 
<knome> you lost me there
<knome> but yes, if we do a wallpaper contest for 18.04, we should totally open that for submissions when the development cycle starts
<knome> the problem the last time was that we didn't have the technology ready
<flocculant> what I am saying is if time for art is a problem - also have that in the mix
<knome> right...
<flocculant> team then picks 1 for default wallpaper - the rest we pick end up as community
<knome> mhm
<knome> well, the wallpaper is doable
<knome> it's always about the same amount of time
<flocculant> just have to say - we want something simple for default - not a picture of a stormy mountain
<knome> so it's easier to schedule
<knome> the animal... well it kind of is the sameish amount of time too, but we're often doing late with the slideshow content too
<knome> and it's less prominent
<knome> even if it's shown to everybody
<flocculant> right - but 16.10's wallpaper screwed it for people with less than perfect eyes and messages - which would have been more noticeable if it wasn't at the end
<flocculant> and yea - ack on animal thing
<knome> yep, i'm not saying we shouldn't improve on the artwork timing
<flocculant> yep - I understand
<knome> i also don't know how others than me perceive it, but there's something magical into building a release - and getting the wallpaper in later in the cycle - not day 0
<flocculant> just throwing ideas out - in the hope it helps us all in the long run :)
<flocculant> oh yea 
<knome> but later of course being rather before UIF
<knome> but we've hit that mark relatively consistently :P
<knome> or a few days later - those days aren't going to make that huge difference
<flocculant> I'd not want to see release too early - doesn't mean we can't decide early
<knome> yeah, though keeping things private is a bit meh :)
<flocculant> anyway - got some batter and a frying pan I need to join together for pancakes - biab :p
<knome> anyway, to develop the idea about getting community submissions for the installer slideshow...
<flocculant> knome: it's not private - it's just not public yet
<knome> instead of asking for "final artwork" kind of stuff, we could ask for ideas
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> biab :)
<knome> and if we decide an idea is worth pursuing, both do it and involve the idea submitter with the process
<knome> hf :)
 * knome goes do some real work
<flocculant> that sounds like a useful thought :)
<knome> that way we can both get ideas from the community (and not come up with them all ourselves) and be on the controls for what the output looks like
<knome> and we'll also lower the threshold for contributing as we aren't telling we expect something that is already polished/ready
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> worth trying I guess
<tracker7> Hello. Is xubuntu-core maintained?
<knome> it is a community project, not official (yet)
<tracker7> ok, but when I google "xubuntu-core", I get stuff from 2015, and there isn't anything on the xubuntu page that is recent, so I'm curious if it's still maintained (and should I use it)
<knome> you should only use it "if you know what you are doing"
<knome> again, it's not *yet* official; we're pending on somebody else to get moving forward with it
<tracker7> So the current "release", even it's old, is still ok?
<tracker7> I mean "apt-get install xubuntu-core"
<knome> you should consult Unit193 for the details
<knome> but that should be just as good as it was a few years ago
<tracker7> ok.
<tracker7> Are there any other "core" distros?
<knome> there are small distros if that's what you are looking for
<tracker7> I'm looking for something that 1) I can use an IDE in, 2) I can install Docker in, 3) is tiny, and 4) makes sense to run as a VBox VM. And I've always liked xubuntu.
<Unit193> tracker7: The seed is indeed maintained as part of the seed, I'd also recommend installing the task, not the metapackage.  The ISOs, community ISOs, are maintained still.
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20170322.1-gcc7/+build/12301877 :P
 * bluesabre seems to be terrible at hiding
<knome> yep.
<Unit193> Or I'm really good at finding. >_>
<Unit193> I'd like to blame knome, he pinged me.
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> suppose I should get to fixing that
<knome> fix eeeet
<Unit193> Or convince someone else to.
<knome> good luck with that. ;)
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825658 heh, he wants seamless!
<ubottu> Debian bug 825658 in lightdm-gtk-greeter "release.debian.org: XFWM4 Compositor Issue - Patches released for LightDM-GTK-Greeter and XFWM4" [Important,Open]
<bluesabre> We probably suggested includeing that patch
<bluesabre> dang it
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Doesn't matter, xfwm will be fixed soon enough, maybe.
<bluesabre> one day
<knome> a strong maybe
<Unit193> xfwm4 4.13 has it, but that's a bit iffy.
<bluesabre> what could possibly go wrong
<Unit193> Push to zesty!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-01
<arante> Hi everyone! I am interested in contributing to Xubuntu development, specifically the QA team for now. Any recommendations where do I need to start will be greatly appreciated.
<krytarik> arante: Hi!  Start here, and poke the QA guys (akxwi-dave, and flocculant) when they become available a bit later in the Europe morning: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa
<arante> krytarik thank you for the tip!
<flocculant> one's awake ... 
<bluesabre> We can probably land lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.2 in zesty, if we want to test lightdm-gtk-greeter in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntubudgie-dev/+archive/ubuntu/zesty-proposed/
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/2.0/2.0.2 release notes.
<bluesabre> Yeah, that's handy
<bluesabre> Mainly interested in "Replaced a number of build-breaking deprecations", but it looks like we can benefit budgie too
<Unit193> Did you look over the packaging? :P
<bluesabre> Not yet... since you asked, I'm now scared :|
<Unit193> Nah it's fine enough, just not a true merge (just checked.)
<denysok> hi
<denysok> I discovered an auto-arranging of icon on desktop. will it be fixed in the next xubuntu's release? or maybe I can fix it by myself somehow?
<denysok> after that I can share this
<flocculant> ochosi: don't know if you know this - but volume control indicator - volume line appears to not be vertical at the ends http://i.imgur.com/iBIUt2o.png
<flocculant> don't use volume on pc much - and rarely take much notice either 
<flocculant> oh - not just local either - checked iso
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-02
<bluesabre>  Good morning
<flocculant> hi :)
<bluesabre> hiya flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: was the sun up today?
<bluesabre> flocculant: not until just a moment ago
 * flocculant isn't that good with those Johhny Foreigner timezones :D
<flocculant> rc week next week - just in time for people to happen across bugs when it's pretty much too late ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> just approved some mails to -devel about an article about xubuntu...
<bluesabre> flocculant: prior to that, want to take a look at the greeter I posted earlier?
<flocculant> bluesabre: can do :)
<bluesabre> much appreciated
<flocculant> bluesabre: do I have to grab the package from somewhere?
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntubudgie-dev/+archive/ubuntu/zesty-proposed/
<flocculant> oh - not somewhere I'd have looked at all then :D
<bluesabre> very unlikely ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: grabbed that flatlook theme - set it up - installed new greeter - rebooted - can't confirm bug so that's good, nothing else exploded :)
<flocculant> flatlook is horrid :D
<flocculant> as far as bugs apparently fixed - were these on budgie?
<flocculant> other than the solid colour one that is
<bluesabre> flocculant: primarily, 2.0.1 does not build in zesty, and budgie wanted to deliver a fix but could not rebuild
<bluesabre> flocculant: that, along with the fact that I fixed some things last year and it would be nice to get the new version in at *some* point :D
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: checked what I can - eg it works here, not sure if there was a multiple monitor problem - not able to check that without visiting the attic ...
<knome> pleia2, fyi, flocculant is now a ML mod for -users and -devel
<bluesabre> I read that wrong but thought it was fine.
<bluesabre> "pleia2, fyi, flocculant is now a ML for -users and -devel"
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<akxwi-dave> lol
<ochosi> flocculant: right, that looks crappy. ok i gotta fix that...
<ochosi> bluesabre: could we still land another small greybird fix in zesty?
<flocculant> ochosi: thought that might be your opinion ...
<flocculant> just happened to notice when looking at some sound plugins mentioned in xfce-dev
 * flocculant normally has sound at 100% or more and controls it with the actual amplifier
<ochosi> also the blue border is not intentional
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure, no problem for fixes
<ochosi> anyway, i'll try to get it fixed asap, latest by tomorrow
<Unit193> So, -extras is kind of like light testing, right?
<flocculant> Unit193: that was my understanding
<Unit193> It was things not in the repo, but that no longer fits xfd.  I'm thinking about popping up 7.x in there (development branch.)
<flocculant> well that's all cryptic enough to fit in there :p
<flocculant> 7.x what? whimwhamforgrindingsmoke
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-26
<bluesabre> New xfpanel-switch release coming soon, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xfpanel-switch-dev/xfpanel-switch/trunk/revision/112
<ochosi> Unit193: then again it's very likely people will install stuff like Vlc and it would suck if it looked out of place
<Unit193> It's possible sure.
<ochosi> just sayin, certain apps that are considered 'standard' are qt
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice, didnt have xfpanelswitch on the radar, good job!
<Unit193> Well if we feel that strongly about VLC, I'd say s/parole/vlc/ then..
<flocculant> ochosi: on the other hand - no-one cared much when I had to sort it out for me :p
<Unit193> flocculant: Cared enough to make sure the env var is set, so all one has to do is install a package.
<flocculant> Unit193: that was a long wait ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: that was not at all my point though
<Unit193> Because nobody gets Qt5 and the answer keeps changing, first it was QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE.
<Unit193> ochosi: Sure, but nevertheless.  People do all sorts of things, I really don't think that's the answer here.
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah sry, got into the cycle a little late...
<flocculant> personally I'd think that supplying people with the information for this is sufficient
<ochosi> right, but if it's a <1mb package incl depends...
<Unit193> Yeah, need to document it well and obviously. :/
<flocculant> re knome's comment - would the answer be the same if we were space constrained
<Unit193> ochosi: 60+mb
<ochosi> we used to get this right in the past
<ochosi> oh, ouch
<ochosi> i thought it was just a tiny pkg
<Unit193> Because it pulls in all of Qt5, which is my point.
<ochosi> meh, i guess i should've more carefully read
<flocculant> we could easily get into a cycle of we've got plenty of room - why not install the kitchen sink
<Unit193> The package is really tiny if you're installing vlc, keepassxc, or something else Qt5 because it's already pulling in the base libs.
<ochosi> i guess there is no way to solve this on the packaging side by making it a depend of aomething in xubuntu?
<ochosi> or maybe we could make it a depend of some extras package
<flocculant> there's a meeting tomorrow - not sure who's going to be around for that
<Unit193> xubuntu-qt5?  One would still have to know to install it.
<ochosi> hmm
<flocculant> we've got our wiki - under our control - this seems like an ideal time to start using it to give users information
<flocculant> anyway - in and out for the next 30 mins 
<ochosi> maybe even worth including it in the release notes
<flocculant> right
<ochosi> originally i was thinking something like xubuntu-restricted-extras, but thats not the right place either
<ochosi> we could also patch an infobar into the appearance settings dialog to warn the user or give a button to easily install
<Unit193> And IIRC that's just a 'symlink' to ubuntu-restricted-extras now.
<flocculant> memory's not what it was - but I think I've needed this package for 2 cycles prior to this one
<flocculant> so it's not something new
<flocculant> ochosi: I like the infobar idea
<flocculant> gtg now - back later
<Unit193> flocculant: Right, just the info keeps changing. :/
<flocculant> mmh
<Unit193> Amusingly, since Dropbox bundles libs it still uses QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE. :P
<Unit193> And if you export both, things look horrid.
<Unit193> ....Well, used to then.  Now: QApplication: invalid style override passed, ignoring it.
<ochosi> yeah, but the 'info changing' is exactly what you can hide behind the infobar
<ochosi> plus it would only conditionally show up
<ochosi> anyway, not sure about it...
<Unit193> Biggest concern would be the patch or whatnot getting out of date.
<bluesabre> and translations
<Unit193> Err...Yeah.
<bluesabre> maybe the dep chain could be improved with the base qt libraries
<bluesabre> have one of 1) kde, 2) lxqt, 3) razor, 4) qt5-style-plugins
<bluesabre> so qt apps don't look like garbage on anybody's machine
<Unit193> razor isn't something to consider anymore.
<mantissa> Hey guys, just wanted to ask something quick. I'm a 3D artist using Xubuntu every day and wanted to see if I could donate some artwork for the LTS. Am I too late in the cycle for that?
<slickymasterWork> mantissa, thanks for your offer
<slickymasterWork> knome will be the best member to reply you
<slickymasterWork> in case you won't be around when he gets bacl I advise you to mail our mailing list about it
<slickymasterWork> the email for that is xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com 
<mantissa> Ah perfect, I'll stick around for a bit and if I son;t see him, I'll drop an email. Thanks!
<slickymasterWork> sure, he's our artwork lead
<slickymasterWork> again thanks for the offer
<mantissa> No worries, happy to give back! :)
<ochosi> mantissa: what kind of artwork would you like to contribute? if it's about default wallpapers, the community contest's submission period has already ended for 18.04...
<mantissa> Ah ok, didn't realize there was a contest for it. That was what I wanted to suggest. If I'm too late that's too bad.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-27
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/1.0.6-0ubuntu1 :)
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> That's enough productivity for tonight
<bluesabre> nighty all
<Unit193> ..I did Debian-side things. :3
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I saw, exciting :)
<Unit193> (Not really, but OK!)
<Unit193> I might try to push sn-plug through pkg-ayatana team instead, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> nice
<flocculant> bluesabre: just so you're aware - on my lets have all the ppa's install xfpanel-switch refuses to let me cancel or save - just checked on updated iso - that is ok :)
<flocculant> but bug 1759117 
<ubottu> bug 1759117 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "Wording of saved panel layout" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759117
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice!
<Unit193> Anyone with xfce4-panel 4.13?  Can you try xfce4-timer-plugin (as from Debian's vcs)?
<knome> ugh, i did literally one small string change in the contest code and now wordpress refuses to load any of the contest admin pages.
<knome> well not one but a few changes - to strings only
<Unit193> Crap, forgot to vote again.
<knome> you'll still have time
<knome> as soon as i get this working
<knome> ....OH
<knome> welcome to go vote
<knome> flocculant, did you know you have voted all except one submission? (if this is intentional, then dismiss)
<knome> akxwi-dave, dkessel, pleia2, ochosi, slickymaster: you have voting to do!
<knome> bbl...
<pleia2> knome: I have to vote on alllll of them? >_<
<pleia2> I don't have opinions on many!
<ochosi> yeah, i also didn't vote on some where i'm undecided
<ochosi> Unit193: i use 4.13 on a daily basis. if you point me to the source i can try to build and test
<flocculant> knome: aah yes - couldn't see a difference between it and the one that looks the same ;)
<flocculant> knome: re meeting - might be a tad late - dad taxi ...
<flocculant> pleia2: I only voted on them all because I did it piece meal ;)
<flocculant> - the one I didn't vote on :p
<pleia2> hah, yeah, I went in twice to vote, that was enough for me ;P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> there was a lot ...
<willem> evening all
<flocculant> hi willem 
<willem> still testing/using xubuntu 18.04. At start up just now, I got an error, which produced an 
<willem> wrapper-2.0 assert failure: free(): invalid pointer.
<willem> I reported this to launchpad, but the issue is marked private
<flocculant> ok - let it got through the process then
<willem> and only direct subscribers will see the report. And I am the only direct subscriber
<flocculant> yea = only you and bug team people will be able to see it
<willem> ah, so some other *will* be notified?
<flocculant> yep
<willem> right, even though no names are shown in the "other bug subscribers"?
<flocculant> yep
<willem> <confused but content>
<flocculant> :)
<willem> thanks, as allways
<flocculant> np
<willem> always?
<flocculant> there's a meeting tonight btw
<flocculant> always :)
<willem> would it be helpful if I were to attend?
<flocculant> up to you - see what goes on - and they are community meetings - that usually only the team go to lol
<flocculant> bbl
<willem> would it be okay for me to just "listen in", and be a fly-on-the-wall-but-as-silent-as-a-dead-battery sort of attendee?
<flocculant> yea of course :)
<willem> what time?
<flocculant> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Community+Meeting&iso=20180327T20&p1=%3A&ah=1
<willem> here?
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> right - off for a bit now
<willem> sure. thanks
<knome> pleia2, ochosi: well we can allow "0" votes... for the next time
<knome> but for now, in order to keep the voting and chances to win the same for everyone, please vote something
<knome> if you don't have an opinion, i'd probably vote down then
<knome> we don't want the "wallpapers that generate the least amount of ugly" to win, but the ones that give most people the "wow, this is nice" effect
<pleia2> k
<knome> willem, other bug subscribers essentially means "everybody else who has explicitly subscribed to this bug that aren't normally via their memberships"
<knome> pleia2, thanks and sorry, i know it can be a daunting task if done at once
<knome> there are 162 submissions fwiw
<knome> you only have about 128 clicks to do (:
<knome> ochosi, you're very close, just go click a few buttons :P
<willem> knome, thanks. That's goood to know. I wasn't aware of that.
<knome> to be exact, re: 0 voting, i want everybody to vote on every submission anyway... even if it had the same effect with not voting
<knome> that's because i want to make sure the "not voted" aren't just things you missed or votes that aren't registered for technical reasons
<knome> and practically, a few of the top submissions haven't got as many votes as others
<knome> so they could fall out of the mix
<knome> and others could rise to the mix if even with a positive sum of 1
<flocculant> then surely they aren't top submissions ;)
<knome> top meaning the ones that might get included... :P
<flocculant> still sounds wrong - hopefully it'd Finnglish ;)
<knome> maybe i'm just a bad explainer :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> maybe we should do a revised post about the window resizing..
<knome> !team | meeting in 40ish
<ubottu> meeting in 40ish: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> knome: isn't the detail the same?
<knome> there's a lot of gtk2
<knome> and we don't talk about greybird-a11y
<knome> which is... WIP, but maybe this could get people help us with it
<pleia2> I'll be on a train during meeting, but nothing really from me anyway
<knome> oki
<knome> have fun
<knome> :)
<flocculant> well - asking people might work - it's worked for Ubuntu and their Community Theme thingy
<knome> yep
<knome> and tbh just brainstorming ideas could help with that thing
<knome> could...
<flocculant> yea
<knome> it's so long since i even thought about that thing that i don't remember where we are
<flocculant> no good asking me :p
<knome> i don't stop a question there :P
<knome> stop?
<knome> eh
<knome> spot
<flocculant> only because perhaps you have to have a ? at the end :p
<knome> nah
<knome> :P
<ochosi> sry guys, still on my way, will probably be late.. :/
<knome> no problemo
<flocculant> obviously I'm not dad taxi as previously expected
<knome> :D
<knome> dad bus?
<flocculant> nah - she's using friend taxi :p
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 27 20:00:23 2018 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> who's here for the meeting?
<knome> (we encourage you to make some noise now even if you are just lurking)
<willem> lurking
<knome> hello willem :)
<flocculant> yup 
<knome> (and while we do that...)
<knome> #topic Open action items
<knome> none carried on
<knome> #topic Updates and Announcements
<knome> #subtopic Wallpaper contest results (knome)
<knome> this is still work on progress, i've pinged people who need to do some more voting; results will be published as soon as we're ready
<knome> #subtopic Dbus timeout bug (flocculant) 
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1754836
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754836 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on org.bluez:/org/bluez: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> right 
<knome> this sounds like a nasty one
<flocculant> so this is mostly about the fact we've 4 weeks left - and what we do if there's not change here
<flocculant> not as bad as it sounds 
<flocculant> effectively (afaik) rubbish boot time to live session
<knome> yes
<flocculant> rubbish first boot time after install
<flocculant> assuming no bluetooth available
<flocculant> obviously it's not good - but it could be worse
<knome> have we heard any more from daniel from the bug than that single comment?
<flocculant> oh right - well he's wrong anyway :p
<knome> and did ali1234 end up with something that can lead to a fix?
<flocculant> will cooke is aware of the issue (ubuntu have a 25s delay - amongst other issues)
<knome> right... that sounds good (and i don't mean to sound snarky)
<flocculant> jibel is aware and looking at it amongst other things
<ali1234> i never found anything beyond what i wrote on the bug
<knome> ali1234, ok
<flocculant> oh yea
<flocculant> checked over the weekend - mate are affected - flexiondotorg was notified
<knome> yep
<knome> maybe this can get more leverage from there as well
<flocculant> mmh
<knome> anything else on this or shall we just keep an eye on it for now?
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> we need to at least have some idea of what we're going to do - I'd guess bluesabre will check logs later 
<knome> the only workaround for this i can come up with is drop the bluez stuff (if even that helps) and that's a bit meh too for those who *do* have bluetooth
<flocculant> but nothing we can actively do now
<knome> especially if they are bt-only
<knome> i mean for input
<flocculant> I think I'd rather release note the problem for non-bt than leave bt floundering
<knome> yes
<flocculant> well
<knome> #info in case a fix or a good workaround isn't found, add a mention about this in the release notes
<flocculant> actually I'd pretty much refuse to release without bt even if it's a bit meh
<knome> yes, i don't think that's a very realistic option, just a fix for the bug... :P
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> :)
<knome> shall we move on?
<flocculant> yea
<knome> #subtopic Numlockx on laptops (flocculant)
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1759112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1759112 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Disable numlockx on laptops" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> heh
<knome> i know... :P
<knome> so... what's the issue numlock being on with laptops?
<flocculant> so - at the weekend Sean and I discussed this a bit - some input from krytarik too - needs script to include laptop-detect 
<flocculant> again - was just a put it on the table thing given just you and I atm :)
<knome> sure, but i'd like to know why it's a problem
<knome> and also, this sounds like a relatively easy one...
<knome> to fix, that is
<knome> if it is indeed an issue
<flocculant> currently - numlockx is on - which is fine on desktop - perhaps not so fine on a laptop - turn it off - reboot - turn it off
<knome> i understand, but why isn't it fine on laptop?
<flocculant> we 'could' do this with information on wiki or something too
<flocculant> knome: I just brought compaints to Sean's attention
<flocculant> or complaint
<knome> our blog is a bit more accessible than the wiki i think, so an article there would be good
<flocculant> anyway - up to dev's I suppose which they do
<knome> yep
<knome> i just dug through the links pasted here
<knome> good job krytarik, i'm sure that's a great solution (:
<krytarik> :D
<knome> moving on then
<knome> #subtopic Freezes
<knome> #info Documentation String Freeze: March 29 (two days!)
<knome> #info Final Beta Freeze: April 2 (for final beta on April 5)
<knome> #info (non-language-pack) Translation Freeze: April 12
<flocculant> likely to be April 3rd 
<knome> ahha
<knome> well anyway, there that is
<flocculant> yup
<knome> so for the docstringfreeze, we need to get the slideshow in order
<flocculant> 2nd is official date 
<knome> i'll try to fix up that tomorrow
<flocculant> oh yea - that's sparse ...
<knome> anything else for the announcements?
<flocculant> but I see the damn thing too many times during a cycle to do more than shudder at it regardless
<flocculant> not for announcements
<knome> ok, moving on then :)
<knome> #topic Discussion
<knome> since there are no agenda items on the wiki, any other discussions?
 * flocculant has something 
<knome> floor is yours
<knome> (obviously...)
<flocculant> #subtopic - Result of Dev/QA recent blogpost
<knome> you aren't a chair
<knome> #subtopic - Result of Dev/QA recent blogpost
<knome> there we go
<flocculant> so iirc we did this just before the first Beta
<knome> march 4
<flocculant> we got increased coverage from NEW people on the tracker then
<flocculant> so hopefully - we'll see similar next week
<knome> maybe we could repost on social media to remind people of this
<flocculant> and also we got someone come by to start running 18.04 as daily and check things and report stuff
<knome> good good :)
<flocculant> so Willem - thanks for that - logged forever in the Xubuntu meeting archive
<flocculant> :)
<knome> yes, thank you willem :)
<knome> it's very much appreciated
<flocculant> good to see new people - always adds new perspectives
<flocculant> ok - nothing else from me
<willem> you're welcome :-)
<knome> not from me either
<flocculant> knome: yea - we can certainly be loud over the weekend I think
<flocculant> I'll start on m/l - then ping for twitter/g+
<knome> #action knome, pleia2 and flocculant to coordiate some social media publicity for final beta testing
<meetingology> ACTION: knome, pleia2 and flocculant to coordiate some social media publicity for final beta testing
<knome> coordinate too, but who cares
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i guess i do...
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> #action knome, pleia2 and flocculant to coordinate some social media publicity for final beta testing
<meetingology> ACTION: knome, pleia2 and flocculant to coordinate some social media publicity for final beta testing
<knome> #nick pleia2 
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> next up is our fantastic artwork lead and council member ochosi 
<knome> #action ochosi to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to schedule next meeting
<knome> #nick ochosi
<knome> any final words for the archive?
<flocculant> that'll be the Cantankerous Cicada first meeting then ...
<flocculant> :D
<knome> unless we get up in speed and have it within a week or 1,5
<flocculant> :)
<knome> might be useful that
<flocculant> I think needed 
<knome> yep
<knome> always useful before a release
<flocculant> if ochosi forgets I'll call one 
<flocculant> I'll likely be the one getting itchy for it :p
<knome> yes, let's try to do this probably very early next week
<knome> anyway...
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 27 20:29:13 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-03-27-20.00.moin.txt
<flocculant> knome: re wallpaper 
<flocculant> how long do we wait for voting?
<knome> we only need to match final freeze, so we can still run it for a week if needed
<flocculant> ie - what freezes do we have to care about there? or not?
<flocculant> ok cool
<knome> but sooner the better
<flocculant> yup
<knome> we still need to double-check on the licenses
<flocculant> yea
<willem> night all
<knome> sending out the emails doesn't take a lot of time, getting replies might
<knome> nighty willem :)
<flocculant> willem: night :)
<flocculant> yea
<knome> and minutes are already uo
<knome> up too
<knome> sigh..
<flocculant> good chap :)
<knome> i've just replaced the keyboard, next up are new fingers
<flocculant> oh that - I hate that time :D
<flocculant> I can touch type - because cheap kbd has lost letters from keys :p
<knome> hah
<knome> this wasn't cheap but has been worth the price
<flocculant> anyway - I've been awake since 3:30am unfortunately - so I shall bid you good night ;)
<knome> nighty flocculant :)
<knome> and i'm off to do other things as well
<knome> o/
<flocculant> updating thunar icons :p
<pjotr> Hello, I've found a rather annoying bug in the xubuntu-meta of Xubuntu 18.04 Bionic:
<pjotr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1759390
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1759390 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "numlockx shouldn't be installed by default: it's wrongly activating the hidden numeric keypad on my netbook" [Undecided,New]
<pjotr> micahg, Unit193, ochosi, Noskcaj (or any other dev): can this still be fixed in time for Bionic?
<krytarik> Sure, we're already on it, and that's a duplicate too.
<bluesabre> Casually late.
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> took considerably longer to get home
<bluesabre> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> just finished reading the meeting minutes
<ochosi> or backlog in fact
<ochosi> will head to take the final votes now
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> i can also do another greybird release for 18.04
<ochosi> i think the xfwm4 theme may take a bit longer to get finalized
<ochosi> too many icons to draw...
<ochosi> so i can also release just with the CSD hidpi fixes that are in master now
<ochosi> it's still a valuable release
<ochosi> hmm, where did the vote button in the sidebar go...
<bluesabre> ochosi: Contests > Hover the contest you want > Vote
<bluesabre> ochosi: greybird release would be dandy
<ochosi> yeah, the contests is missing
<ochosi> from here https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/
<ochosi> k, i'll tag a release tonight
<Unit193> ochosi: Basically it's the release tarball+packaging, I presume you wouldn't build the package?
<ochosi> Unit193: i'd rather not
<ochosi> i can build from git though
<ochosi> if that helps
<Unit193> Tarball/git sure, just add it and see if you get properties in the right click option.
<ochosi> just git master?
<Unit193> Sure, doubt anything more than translations are new there.
<ochosi> knome: voted on all
<ochosi> Unit193: seems to work ok
<ochosi> or did you want anything specifically tested.?
<Unit193> Just that you can right click the tray icon and see properties (and open the config.)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> done that
<Unit193> ochosi: Thanks.  Corsac has .13 libxfce4panel but .12 panel, and we're thinking that since it affects indicator-plugin too.
<ochosi> configured a timer, ran it, received the alarm
<Unit193> \o/
<ochosi> so that was xfce4-panel from git master with timer from git master
<ochosi> the whole dialog could be much improved from the UI point of view...
<ochosi> but it's working and looking very much like gtk2
<Unit193> xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.0-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<ochosi> bluesabre: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v3.22.8
<bluesabre> ochosi: much appreciated
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> thanks for handling all the uploads
<ochosi> do you need another icon thme release too?
<ochosi> i think there was the wm icons patch
<ochosi> or does it not matter that much because those get pulled directly into xubuntu-artwork anyway
<Unit193> Yes, thanks bluesabre for handling all the theme/artwork uploads, not my favorite. :3
<bluesabre> ochosi: doesn't matter as much since it's pulled into xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> yup, perfect then
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/3.22.8-0ubuntu1
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-28
<bluesabre> krytarik: opposed to me giving you the commit credit for numlock?
<krytarik> Not opposed to that, no. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> nice guy
<bluesabre> krytarik: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/675 :)
<krytarik> Hehe, even as the author! :P
<krytarik> "for not enable" though.. :P
<bluesabre> d'oh
<bluesabre> will fix with the release
<krytarik> Yeah, not a big problem for me anyway. :P
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r675 Use 55numlockx for not enable numlock for laptops (LP: #1759... (by Krytarik Raido)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/18.04.5
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r551 Drop superfluous assets... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r676 Release 18.04.5 (by Sean Davis)
<donofrio> how do I get the "receive-key" out of an 'add-apt-repository?'
<donofrio> found someone else with same issue - https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/2960#issuecomment-376690404
<donofrio> but he doesn't show how he got it ;)
<donofrio> I'm so close to getting xfwm4.13 I can feel it
<donofrio> and for background this is how I got here - http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrio1804
<krytarik> donofrio: Please, this is no support channel.
<donofrio> oh mybad
<donofrio> even thought I'm 18.04?
<Unit193> That's usually #xubuntu or #ubuntu+1
<donofrio> thank you
<flocculant> bluesabre krytarik - thanks peeps :)
<flocculant> I killed my /etc/blah/blah/fix numlockforgodssake file now - just using the xubuntu one - not seen update yet though
<flocculant> rebuilding iso to catch the update there
<flocculant> seem to have ppa x-d-s being preferred here which is older I think
<flocculant> anyway - enough thinking of that till later
<slickymasterWork> knome, the reason why I didn't vote in all the submissions is pretyy much the same as pleia2's
<slickymasterWork> lack of an opinion in most of them
<slickymasterWork> only voted the ones I really did like
<slickymasterWork> gues I'll have to down vote the rest now
<slickymasterWork> s(gues/guess
<slickymasterWork> also, sorry for not being able to attend the meeting yesterday but I'm again in Lisbon
<Unit193> greybird-gtk-theme 3.22.8-1 uploaded by Jeremy Bicha (jbicha)
<tracker8> hey
<flocculant> hi tracker8 
<tracker8> sorry to bother anyone but i'm new to linux and i just wanted to know if i'd rather download xubuntu 14.04 than 16.04 or 17.10 
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> xubuntu 14.04 is no longer supported by us
<tracker8> because i'm a bit skeptical to download releases after 2015
<flocculant> Id' be inclined (if you want LTS) to install 17.10 - then when prompted to upgrade to 18.04 to do that - and then you can make it only look for LTS versions
<flocculant> then I'm not able to help you
<tracker8> ok thank you
<tracker8> the reason why i am looking for xubuntu is because i want to run Guild Wars 2 through PlayOnLinux
<tracker8> and a youtuber mentionned it was running fithout FPS drops under Xfce
<flocculant> fine - but I'm not getting into some discussion about post 2015
<tracker8> it's ok
<tracker8> i just wanted to know if i download either 14.04 or 17.10 then upgrade to 18.04 that i would have no FPS drops running Guild Wars 2 through PlayOnLinux
<flocculant> we don't support 14.04
<tracker8> so i should download 17.10 right ?
<flocculant> you can upgrade 17.10 to 18.04 - as far as playing games and fps issues I have no idea - don't play games
<flocculant> tracker8: see above re 'inclined'
<tracker8> one last question if you mind
<tracker8> i selected a mirror and i see a 18.04 branch
<tracker8> does it mean i can download 18.04 before release date ?
<flocculant> you can - but it's still in testing
<flocculant> won't be release until end of April
<tracker8> thank you sir
<flocculant> and if you decide to do that regardless - mirrors are likely out of date - it's updated daily :)
<flocculant> no problem :)
<tracker8> each release is an upgrade from the previous version ?
<flocculant> more or less yea
<tracker8> sweet
<flocculant> LTS tend to be release every 2 years - with normal releases in between
<tracker8> i see
<tracker8> so i will just download 17.10
<tracker8> and wait for the 18.04 release
<flocculant> yup
<tracker8> because i don't want any issue with it
<tracker8> thank you so much for your help
<flocculant> there is information in the Help pages - you can change it once you've got 18.04 to not update every 9 months
<tracker8> yea i will go through the documentation today to see if i can learn step by step since i'm completely new to this world
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> take it slow - don't randomly grab things from the internet
<tracker8> yea that's the problem today with the rise of cyber threats
<tracker8> i miss the good old days
<tracker8> when you could use windows and not worry about anything
<tracker8> now i'm forced to use foreign os but i will learn it step by step
<flocculant> not what I meant tbh - don't read something that says 'do this for Ubuntu' - most of what you find is out of date
<flocculant> anyway - I have to go now
<tracker8> alright take care
<flocculant> you too
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-terminal 0.8.7.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-terminal-0-8-7-3-released-tp50871.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<Unit193> bluesabre: â
<flocculant> evening Unit193 
<Unit193> Howdy, flocculant.
<Unit193> BTW, doing -term.
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/+bug/1713343 can be killed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713343 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "no release file and error 404 " [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/+bug/1721976 what?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1721976 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "Thunar New Tab Button" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> xfce4-terminal 0.8.7.3-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<Unit193> xfce4-power-manager 1.6.1-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<Unit193> xfce4-timer-plugin 1.7.0-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, specifically for you: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/0.8.7.3-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-power-manager/news/20180328T211231Z.html does look handy, specifically if one cares about appstream (I don't.)
<Unit193> xfce4-indicator-plugin 2.3.4-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: #893639)
<ochosi> Unit193: would be nice to get xfpm patches upstream though
<ochosi> i'm happy to review and integrate those
<Unit193> ...Patches?
<ochosi> i thought the appstream stuff was added as a patch
<ochosi> i didn't look really tbh :>
<Unit193> Ooooooooh, well sort of.
<Unit193> https://sources.debian.org/src/xfce4-power-manager/1.4.4-4/debian/patches/01_fix-light-locker-schema-loading.patch/ is the only proper patch.
<Unit193> Gah, anyway..
<Unit193> ochosi: No active patches, just https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/xfce4-power-manager/blob/debian/master/debian/xfce4-power-manager-data.install
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> hmm, everybody seems to use gitlab...
<knome> hello
<knome> are you suggesting we should as well?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> knome: Pagure!
<knome> Unit193, go vote some wallpapers!
<Unit193> ochosi: I use cgit/gitolite!
<ochosi> knome: well maybe it's worth thinking about it again if it's not really a resource topic anymore
<ochosi> but anyway, that belongs to a different channel...
<ochosi> what's the state of the slideshow?
<Unit193> ochosi: So fixing the location only, I believe.
<knome> the slideshow is... wip
<knome> i kind of forgot it
<knome> :P
<knome> so meh
<ochosi> Unit193: mhm, i really haven't dealt with appstream/appdata for too long
<knome> we'll need a freeze exception
<ochosi> knome: what's the deadline? tonight?
<knome> and not only that, we'll need to get it in ASAP
<knome> oh wait
<knome> yes, it's *today*
<knome> not yesterday
<knome> so yes, i think i can do it
<knome> i'll try to build up some motivation to do it tonight, but no promises yet
<ochosi> kewl
<ochosi> would be nice to avoid the paperwork
<knome> yes, though
<knome> that's not the main issue
<ochosi> and who knows if you'll have more time tomorrow
<ochosi> time/motivation
<ochosi> what has to be done actually?
<ochosi> updating the background of the slideshow? updating the numbers?
<knome> it's mostly finalizing some stuff
<knome> it's almost ready
<knome> and i think the bg needs a resivit too now that i know what kind of content/artwork we have
<knome> then we need to obviously update the strings
<knome> and the thing is more bothersome than the freeze paperwork is finding somebody to do the upload
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> or did bluesabre score upload abilities for that package?
<bluesabre> nope
<knome> indeed, so that's the main thing we want to avoid -- having to bother somebody do the upload for us -- late
<knome> *theoretically* i have a lot of time tomorrow
<knome> but practically...
<ochosi> hmm
<knome> if you want to look at my branch and see how it looks in terms of artwork you might motivate me a bit :P
<bluesabre> I'm not going to be of much use tonight, lots of running around to do
<Unit193> That's Ok, I'm useful!
<knome> yep, the usual chickenry
<knome> :P
<knome> i was specifically meaning that ochosi could look at it
<knome> because artwork lead and all ;)
<Unit193> Well I meant I packaged things, both in Debian and here.
<knome> Unit193, of course you are useful
<Unit193> Well, I mean I did something today Xubuntu related..
<knome> :)
<ochosi> night everyone!
<ochosi> (and just so that i've said it publicly here too, i like the new slideshow and it's brief format)
<knome> nighty ochosi :)
<Unit193> ...Was I supposed to backport Debian's timer-pl to xubuntu-dev/staging?
<Unit193> Wait, uh..
<Unit193> experimental?  I don't know!
<knome> let's push the slideshow...
<knome> ochosi, slideshow pushed: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-29
<Unit193> knome: There, happy?  I also maaaay have had help with the answers.  I cheated. :3
<Unit193> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/ppa is wrong. :3
<Unit193> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1521701811&rev2%5B1%5D=1522307655&difftype=sidebyside ?
<hilpv> hey there... I'm using xubuntu 17.10, and I've found that light-locker won't let me unlock my screen after a recent update. I traced this down to a failure where the seat path for systemd is NULL, and light locker can't do much to recover from there it seems. Is this a known issue?
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ - also - on bionic after suspend I get a dead desktop - had to go back a version to see desktop
<flocculant> not been in long - got stuff to do - then I'll try and look at it a bit logically
<flocculant> ochosi: just to cheer you up - and just before release (again) lightdm turns into devil child :p
<flocculant> well - I really hate this thing every cycle :(
<TJ-> I've got an unusual blank/black/off tty issue on resume from suspend for the user session with 18.04. Looks to be related to XFCE, is this the correct channel to discuss/explore it? *only* when doing S3 suspend via lid-close, on resume lightdm greeter/lock shows and I authenticate. Immediately it switches to the user session the screen blanks (no sign of backlight). Can switch away to other TTYs and
<TJ-> the console displays fine. switch back to GUI and 'black'
<TJ-> I've been trawling logs watching it remotely over SSH and so far no clues as what is going on. xrandr says the output is connected and active, DPMS is off
<flocculant> TJ-: yea it is the right channel - but currently you'll be talking to me only ;)
<flocculant> TJ-: I did purge ppa's - still seeing bizarre things - and no network after suspend
<TJ-> It's so weird it's making me laugh. I just returned from dinner, pressed a key, bluetooth connects, greeter/lock shows, authenticate and 'blam!' black screen again (it didn't resume so it's 'remembered' this 'off' setting for the user session
<flocculant> so that's light-locker
<TJ-> interesting! If I 'systemctl suspend' then after it's suspended close the lid. Open the lid, it resumes, greeter > auth > user session is fine
<TJ-> this suggests the Lid Close event is handled but not cancelled when resuming
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/5qYRfNj.png
<flocculant> I get this when coming back from suspend - some times
<TJ-> that looks like the wrong texture is being restored
<flocculant> also the systemctl suspend made no difference to no network
<TJ-> Interestingly, in auth.log up until March 25th when I d-r-u-ed to 18.04 there are "systemd-logind: Lid closed/opened" pairs ... since then, none
<flocculant> (xfwm4:1316): xfwm4-WARNING **: 20:32:11.168: GL not available
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^
<TJ-> which network device is it? dmesg should reveal something
<TJ-> according to 'man logind.conf' HandleLidSwitch=suspend is the default but usually a GUI will take-over handling with an inhibito lock handle-lid-switch 
<TJ-> this points the finger at xfce4-power-manager I think
<flocculant> TJ-: dmesg had a lot of https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rMnpkXR8hZ/
<TJ-> flocculant: that's framebuffer (fb) DRM so definitely a video driver issue; what GPU/driver ?
<flocculant> GeForce 210 using nouveau
<TJ-> I've seen nouveau do that on 16.04 but it seems to depend on which GPU
<TJ-> looks like x-p-m has also regressed in other areas; it no longer reports the Bluetooth keyboard battery status
<flocculant> TJ-: took a few goes to get just no network > https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/yjmY5Tnz5y/
<TJ-> I disable x-p-m Security > "Lock screen when system is going to sleep" and the problem didn't occur. Need to test it a few more times though
<TJ-> oh, was wrong about no auth.log Lid closed/opened messages; grep thought the file was binary after March 25th. With 'grep -a' it sees the messages for 18.04
<TJ-> and Bluetooth keyboard battery state is kernel issue; /sys/class/power_supply/hid-XXXXX/ nodes show the same values
<flocculant> TJ-: I've got to afk now - hopefully someone helpful will be along 
<Unit193> One could test via downgrading xfpm.
<TJ-> I've found the problem and reverted the offending code. https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/issues/108
<Unit193> knome: You didn't review? :3
<knome> review what?
<knome> the slideshow? :P
<Unit193> I pasted wiki link.
<knome> hmm
<knome> i approve the wiki change
<Unit193> OK, thanks.
<Unit193> knome: Oh, there's also the PPA wiki page. :>
<knome> yes
<knome> so what about that is wrong?
<Unit193> 1. xfce4-gtk3 doesn't exist.  2. experimental may kind of be right, but it's basically "All Xfce development releases."  3. staging is basically "Backports to $currentRelease".
<knome> ok, so why not update the page?
<knome> it's a wiki for a reason... :)
<Unit193> 1. Words are haaaard.  2. Yes, just making sure I'm not "going off and doing my own thing" :)
<Unit193> Eg, communicating!
<knome> tbh i'm not the right person to talk about the PPA descriptions
<knome> i can help with the words things
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-30
<FurretUber> xfce4-notifyd is having a strange behavior while megasync is open: when I click the button in a notification, it opens megasync's status. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XLah_3Q_74
<flocculant> Unit193: I did downgrade xfpm - no change here
<flocculant> knome_: how often does tracker update against bugs?
<knome_> flocculant, daily iirc
<flocculant> knome_: mmm - the 75s timeout bug isn't showing on the tracker for some reason
<flocculant> but thanks for the info regardless of that :)
<knome> mhm, i can look at that a tad later
<flocculant> ok - no panic - was just wondering :)
 * flocculant has dug out laptop and sorted the dust bunnies ... some lock and suspend testing to do on it
<flocculant> forgot how slow it can be to install on hdd
<flocculant> well suspend and lock appear to work ok on that
<knome> heh, hdd, yeah
<flocculant> :p
<knome> i think i might have an extra laptop available
<knome> one that works too :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> still not working well on the desktop
<flocculant> ochosi: just installed nvidia driver here during testing of suspend - coming out of suspend the login screen looks like it's at 640x480 - then when I get to the pretty much unusable desktop resolution is normal again
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> lightdm always ready to crash the LTS party
<flocculant> sigh ...
<flocculant> you'd not believe how often I've looked how much windows is lately ...
<bluesabre> pay robert ancell the cost of a windows license and you might get a fixed lightdm ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> so basically found a bunch of issues now - and I've no idea if they're connected at all :p
<flocculant> and after taking an age to get laptop working and installing it - I can't replicate the one from TJ last night lol
<ochosi> flocculant: the resolution topic is probably your driver+lightdm
<ochosi> havent had time to look at that lightlocker issue and will probably be afk over the weekend
<flocculant> ochosi: yea
<bluesabre> I saw some bugs pop up that the issue has reappeared on 16.04+, so could be the latest kernel versions as well
<flocculant> yup - I suspect the channel will be a tumbleweed zone for the weekend :p
<ochosi> wondering if those are sporadic issues or easily reproducible ones
<flocculant> ochosi: for me - every time
<ochosi> anyway, the greeter stuff is probably something that could end up being unfixablenfor us
<flocculant> but I think I'll ppa-purge again so I'm using default - did check all with nouveau yesterday like that
<ochosi> for the locker we'll see what we can do
<flocculant> time to bring up the should we use lightdm - given we're at the end of the lts cycle - got to love tradition :D
<ochosi> i read somebody debugged it a little already
<bluesabre> flocculant: feel free to link it all to xubuntu-b-bugs so we have a list to work through... we can unlink them if something isn't right or they are dupes
<flocculant> yea - TJ posted something
<ochosi> nah, that discussion is moot
<bluesabre> and I think ubuntu main is the only one not using lightdm now, so relevant across the board
<flocculant> bluesabre: frankly I'm not even sure where to report the suspend thing lol
<bluesabre> flocculant: just attach it to lightdm for now
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll do the list then ...
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<bluesabre> won't be around tonight, but hopefully will be able to debug (and maybe resolve some issues) over the weekend
<flocculant> bluesabre: also - did you see comment on the numlock bug re 'what if I've a laptop with seperate keypad'
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think the patch we have actually covers that scenario
<flocculant> turns it on?
<bluesabre> the 55numlockx does some things
<bluesabre> # Enable numlock for USB keyboard on laptop
<flocculant> cos I have laptop with seperate keypad - and numlock was on there
<flocculant> oh right 
<flocculant> that'd explain it I guess :)
<bluesabre> pretty smart script, /etc/X11/Xsession.d/55numlockx
<flocculant> yea I did read that - but you know me and voodoo don't mix too well ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> oh yea
<flocculant> timeout issue - was talking briefly to jibel - apparently Laney is looking at thos things
<flocculant> whether that includes our one or not - unsure
<bluesabre> cool
<flocculant> but he'll be away with the fairies till Tuesday I'm sure
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> right rebooting back to a ppa-less setup then do some ubuntu-bug things
<bluesabre> bionic is pretty up-to-date, I'd recommend not using our PPAs for the remainder of the cycle
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> but but but ...
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> thunar is all gtk2 now there :p
<flocculant> I assume the resolution and locker I can do against that
<bluesabre> oh wow, the wallpaper ranking moved around a bit
<flocculant> if the lightdm bugs end up private - I'll check it all out on the unused install I have and report from there so I can un-private them
<flocculant> how do you see the ranking then?
<bluesabre> Contests > Hover the 18.04 one > Vote Results
<knome> only -council sees the ranking :P
<flocculant> oh right
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> well, it moved around a bit
<knome> yep
<flocculant> they are in a different order for sure
<knome> this is exactly why i asked people to use all of their votes
<knome> next thing is to get akxwi-dave, slickymaster and jjfrv8 do the rest of their votes
<flocculant> the real next thing is to get the community to vote the next time we do it
<knome> dkessel is at 0 votes so unless he steps up soonish to vote, then he simply doesn't
<flocculant> and have -team veto on things
<knome> that's one option
<flocculant> dkessel: has been mia for ages
<knome> yep
<flocculant> though I do remember him saying it was going to happen.
<knome> yep
<knome> not a biggie
<flocculant> ofc not
<knome> flocculant, remind me what you said again about having that one vote missing?
<flocculant> it was the same pic as another one - maybe resolution difference or something
<knome> right... could you do the same vote as for the other one anyway?
<knome> for mental health purposes :P
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> if I remember - right now I'm up to my neck in bug reporting
<knome> sure
<flocculant> bluesabre: quick one > http://i.imgur.com/AUB7BeJ.png
<flocculant> if I say no - will that likely hamper the solving?
<flocculant> if so I'll nip to the other install 
<flocculant> knome: can't - it won't let me help your mental health ...
<knome> huh?
<flocculant> just stays green/red
<knome> try clicking the other button, then the one you want to vote on?
<flocculant> nope - not happening
<flocculant> I'll log out and try again
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes will probably have more useful details
<flocculant> ok - I'll do them from the other one 
<bluesabre> thanks
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> and likely find that suspend works there - at which point I will be bald :D
<flocculant> biab as trackerX
<flocculant> apport-cli much quicker than ubuntu-bug
<flocculant> bluesabre: so - not bald - same no network post suspend there :p
<flocculant> added both to the list
<flocculant> nice to see lots of green on there too btw :)
<flocculant> I appear to have broken my install ppa-purging :p xfce4-notifyd-config: error while loading shared libraries: libxfconf-0.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<flocculant> Unit193: ^^ you got an idea what I did there? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - linked the other now - neither of the lightdm bugs went private
<flocculant> bluesabre: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1759112/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1759112 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Disable numlockx on laptops" [Undecided,Fix released]
<flocculant> 55numlockx looks for /usr/sbin/laptop-detect but it's in /usr/bin 
<flocculant> afk for a while now - headaching ...
<FurretUber> There is a strange behavior on the button in the notifications. Video: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=1XLah_3Q_74 I've seen this happen only with megasync, but it "hijacks" the button, so a gnome-software notification opens the megasync status window
<FurretUber> Maybe this is a problem with megasync (third party application), but maybe the button in the notification should only open the intended application
<flocculant> can't see the video - but if you only see it with some random 3rd party tool - perhaps it's that
<TJ-> flocculant: do you still suspect lightdm suspend bugs?
<flocculant> TJ-: we're not sure - kind of a bit lightdm/light-locker
<TJ-> I've been digging the source of both, not found anything obvious so far
<flocculant> I managed to get a laptop working earlier today - and while I got some issues - I didn't see what you were seeing 
<flocculant> I did report things today at least - https://bugs.launchpad.net/%7Eflocculant/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<flocculant> top 3 there
<flocculant> we quite frequently get issues with lightdm - usually right around now in a cycle
<TJ-> suspend issue is rather weird for sure. 
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> bluesabre and ochosi were here this morning - but holidays and stuff so went - both had seen what went on yesterday in here
<flocculant> TJ-: re the suspend issues - I don't often use it - so I'm not able to say when it stopped working properly for me during the bb cycle - but it was a while back
<TJ-> the network not being brought back?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> and the double login
<flocculant> pretty much always use nouveau - so not sure about if the odd resolution happened before
<TJ-> any idea how to configure lightdm in debug mode? It only seems to take a command-line --debug, but I don't see anything that can be set via lightdm.conf
<TJ-> Possibly related: from reading lightdm/src/vt.c::vt_set_active() where it has a comment regarding VT_WAITACTIVE (because I see in lightdm.log "WARNING: Error using VT_WAITACTIVE 7 on /dev/tty0: Interrupted system call") links to  Bug #851612 comment #16 and bug #1566073
<ubottu> bug 851612 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Logging out from a FUS session does not reliably return to VT7" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851612
<ubottu> bug 1566073 in lightdm (Ubuntu Trusty) "Use /dev/tty0 instead of /dev/console for VT operations" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566073
<JoKevf> .-.            .-.
<JoKevf> .-.            .-.
<JoKevf> /   \          /   \
<JoKevf> /   \          /   \
<JoKevf> |   _ \        / _   |
<JoKevf> |   _ \        / _   |
<JoKevf> ;  | \ \      / / |  ;
<JoKevf> ;  | \ \      / / |  ;
<JoKevf> \  \ \ \_.._/ / /  /
<JoKevf> \  \ \ \_.._/ / /  /
<JoKevf> '. '.;'    ';,' .'
<JoKevf> '. '.;'    ';,' .'
<JoKevf> './ _    _ \.'
<JoKevf> './ _    _ \.'
<JoKevf> .'  a __ a  '.
<JoKevf> .'  a __ a  '.
<JoKevf> '--./ _,   \/   ,_ \.--'
<JoKevf> '--./ _,   \/   ,_ \.--'
<JoKevf> ----|   \   /\   /   |----
<JoKevf> ----|   \   /\   /   |----
<JoKevf> .--'\   '-'  '-'    /'--.
<JoKevf> .--'\   '-'  '-'    /'--.
<JoKevf> _>.__  -- _.-  `;
<JoKevf> _>.__  -- _.-  `;
<JoKevf> .' _     __/     _/
<JoKevf> .' _     __/     _/
<JoKevf> /    '.,:".-\    /:,
<JoKevf> /    '.,:".-\    /:,
<JoKevf> |      \.'   `""`'.\\
<JoKevf> |      \.'   `""`'.\\
<JoKevf> '-,.__/  _   .-.  ;|_
<JoKevf> '-,.__/  _   .-.  ;|_
<JoKevf> /` `|| _/ `\/_  \_|| `\
<JoKevf> /` `|| _/ `\/_  \_|| `\
<JoKevf> |    ||/ \-./` \ / ||   |
<JoKevf> |    ||/ \-./` \ / ||   |
<JoKevf> \   ||__/__|___|__||  /
<JoKevf> \   ||__/__|___|__||  /
<JoKevf> \_ |_Happy Easter_| /
<JoKevf> \_ |_Happy Easter_| /
<JoKevf> jgs .'  \ =  _= _ = _= /`\
<JoKevf> jgs .'  \ =  _= _ = _= /`\
<JoKevf> /     `-;----=--;--'   \
<JoKevf> /     `-;----=--;--'   \
<JoKevf> \    _.-'        '.    /
<JoKevf> \    _.-'        '.    /
<JoKevf> `""`              `""`
<JoKevf> `""`              `""`
<JoKevf> L0DE AND CHRON FROM #LRH & L0DE RADIO HOUR (IRC.EFNET.ORG) WANTED TO SAY HAPPY EASTER!!
<JoKevf> L0DE AND CHRON FROM #LRH & L0DE RADIO HOUR (IRC.EFNET.ORG) WANTED TO SAY HAPPY EASTER!!
<JoKevf> xubuntu08w krytarik ali1234 FurretUber MrTulias Zeioth elefler GridCube TJ- thc202 aaronraimist DalekSec finsternis J21 bluesabre cruxeternus slickymaster a5m0 tacocat Unit193 mcs__ Noskcaj knome torv hggdh hilpv donofrio alynpost sorinello andrzejr flocculant paolo ubot9 SwissBot Logan mhall119 nanotube Zren harrow ochosi sakrecoer wxl el Woowoo678 micahg schuelle1 ubuntulo1 nikow1 WillDuckworth meetingology dkessel akxwi-dave
<tacocat> someone doesn't know how to thread
<knome> also freenode is flipping on me
<knome> i have owner flag on this channel, but i'm not authorized to op me?
<knome> better...
<knome> but what on earth
<tacocat> my guess is that you weren't logged in or weren't logged into the right account
<flocculant> TJ-: possibly - something a bit more similar to your issue bug 1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<flocculant> back tomorrow now
<TJ-> wow, good find, let me look
<TJ-> I've found an issue as a result: from a console "xrandr -d :0.0 -q" shows the current resolution is 320x200 when it should be 2560x1440, and 320x200 is not valid on this display (eDP-1)
<elefler> Does installing the daily in VBox help or is it not the same thing as installing for real?
<elefler> Sometimes when I try proper releases of distros they do weird things in VMs so I'm not sure how reliable it is
<Unit193> flocculant: libxfconf-0.so.3 is the newer xfconf only from the experimental PPA.  apt list | grep ed,loc
<flocculant> TJ-: yea - it wasn't nice that - took a while to sru it
<flocculant> elefler: at the moment - any testing is good :) I'll be shouting out next week for specific final beta testing
<flocculant> Unit193: I thought so - got that after ppa-purging all the ppa's - then notify failed - currently readded experimental but really wanted to lose that for the rest of the cycle
<Unit193> flocculant: Should be doable, to lose it.
<flocculant> especially as bluesabre recommended not using ppa's right now
<flocculant> I think I saw an error when purging - but was right in the middle of all the things this morning - so I got no further lol
<Unit193> Likely because certain libraries aren't available in normal repos.  And for testing purposes, might make sense.  But a lot of the GTK3/Xfce development builds are only going to be in PPA.
<flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/3Ft9PcVkCg/
<flocculant> yea ofc - but I'm confused as to why it's not purging properly I guess
<flocculant> really away now - night all
<Unit193> Basically, for the stuff that only says $package/now $version amd64 [installed,local]  you do: apt-get install $package/bionic
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-31
<Unit193> * Move laptop-detect from /usr/sbin to /usr/bin - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 00:59:54 +0100
<Unit193> Debian #894481
<ubottu> Debian bug 894481 in numlockx "numlockx: `laptop-detect` has moved from /usr/sbin to /usr/bin" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/894481
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gtk-theme-config/news/20180331T035526Z.html
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.2.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-2-1-released-tp50878.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.1.33 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-1-33-released-tp50879.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
<flocculant> if I didn't know that our iso was suffering from this bluetooth issue - I would just assume that I can't install xubuntu and would go looking for something that worked :(
<flocculant> willem: thanks :)
<willem> flocculant, ?? I don't think I complained about bluetooth lately; but then again I'm old and may have forgotten I did...
<willem> hmm, i did: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1490349, but that was quite some time back
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1490349 in bluez (Ubuntu) "15:10 and 16.04: bluetoothd "Failed to start discovery: org.bluez.Error.NotReady" after bluetoothd restarted" [High,Invalid]
<flocculant> willem: we have one at the moment that leads to a 75s timeout in I assume anything with no bluetooth 
<willem> I read about that one
<willem> I think I did report the slow boot after first install
<flocculant> willem: also - the thanks were for the reply to the testing soon e-mail ;)
<willem> ah, right! I didn't realize that. 
<flocculant> I only just did when I read you again :p
<willem> All I saw was your line about bluetooth and thanking me
<willem> I hope my e-mail helps, though.
<flocculant> yep - always useful to get comments like that from 'normal' testers :)
<willem> Never been called normal before
<flocculant> :D
<willem> makes a change I guess ;-)
<flocculant> I've not talked to you for quite long enough to tar you with the 'crazy people who test things' brush yet lol
<flocculant> if you're still putting up with us mid- Cantankerous Cicada cycle - I'll call you crazy :)
<willem> I'll try to live up to your expectations, then
<flocculant> :)
<ali1234> funnily enough i read that bug yesterday
<ali1234> apparently it is not a bug
<ali1234> flocculant: i wish to complain
<ali1234> the iso tracker tests ask me to verify that "The slideshow is entirely in your language"
<ali1234> but the xubuntu slideshow has that slide with "hello" written in all different languages
<ali1234> therefore i have to fail it :)
<willem> ali1234, :-) I was tempted to do the same first time I came across that slide ;-)
<TJ-> Anyone know of a better channel to catch hold of devs that understand the light-locker<>lightdm interactions ?
<bluesabre> TJ-: #lightdm would probably be best. The maintainer of light-locker comes and goes at #xfce-dev 
<TJ-> thanks. 
<TJ-> I'm sticking in some gs_debug() now to try to trace the lid-closed suspend/resume path
<TJ-> Looks like the lid-closed>suspend>resume>blank-user-session-vt is a timing issue; with a few debug options and light-locker --debug >/tmp/log I cannot reproduce it
<TJ-> Getting more interesting. Even without --debug enabled, my local build of light-locker (with embedded gs_debug() statements) will not fail, but the system's version will. So I've got 3 possible diffs: 1) my 5 gs_debug() statements 2) my binary isn't stripped 3) pssobitl different build options
<TJ-> And just found another data-point that is a workaround. When the blank user VT is present, connecting charger (PM not set to suspend when lid-closed on AC) and then closing and re-opening lid, the VT is active and visible again
<ali1234> good news: tumblerd's exif orientation code is not broken, it's my images :)
<ali1234> and also imagemagick is partly to blame
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-01
<Unit193> That sounds important to pick up.
<flocculant> ali1234: :)
<flocculant> ali1234: also - 3 dbus timeouts on daily today 
<flocculant> knome: not sure what the craic is, but bug 1754836 is refusing to show up on the tracker
<ubottu> bug 1754836 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on org.bluez:/org/bluez: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754836
<EASTERBUNNY__> IRC.SUPERNETS.ORG #SUPERBOWL BEST IRC NETWORK FUCK YOUR NETWORK
<EASTERBUNNY__> NO SOFTCHATS HUGBOX TRANNIES BIBLETHUMPERS OR OPALS ALLOWED HERE
<EASTERBUNNY__> YOU'VE SPENT YOUR ENTIRE LIFE HIDING IN SHITTY CHANNELS FOR WHAT
<EASTERBUNNY__> YOUR IRC NETWORK IS TERRIBLE NO ONE CHATS THERE COME CHAT HERE 
<EASTERBUNNY__> GET THE FUCK ON THIS IRC NETWORK RIGHT NOW YOU FUCKING PUSSY ASS
<EASTERBUNNY__> THIS ISNT YOUR DADS FOOTBALL CHANNEL THIS IS REAL CHATS 24/7 365
<EASTERBUNNY__> WE TAKE CHATS TO A NEW LEVEL, SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE
<EASTERBUNNY__> DalekSec GridCube hggdh finsternis ali1234 Zren knome aaronraimist J21 bluesabre cruxeternus pleia2 ninetls benoliver999 acheronuk yofel cyphermox ubottu vinzv flexiondotorg akxwi-dave dkessel meetingology WillDuckworth nikow1 ubuntulo1 schuelle1 micahg Woowoo678 el wxl sakrecoer ochosi harrow nanotube mhall119 Logan SwissBot ubot9 paolo flocculant andrzejr sorinello alynpost donofrio hilpv torv 
<flocculant> if only I wasn't an adult
<bluesabre> Pretty sure I have in fact seen that before
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<flocculant> seen what before btw? idiots or tracker :p
<bluesabre> both of course
<flocculant> :D
<TJ-> Is there a way, from console, to query/set xfce4-power-manager settings? Specifically, the current monitor backlight brightness ?
<ali1234> yes there is
<ali1234> i forgot what it is though
<TJ-> Is it something via DBus ?
<ali1234> it's a command line tool that operates with dbus
<TJ-> i'm looking at the x.p.m. source but not found it yet.
<ali1234> xfconf-query
<TJ-> I've discovered the issue I've been debugging is due to the user-session, after a lid-close suspend has resumed, is setting the backlight to 0, so from a console I want to 'poke' it back to visible to get some more idea where the problem is
<ali1234> that bug still exists huh?
<ali1234> i thought that was fixed a couple of times...
<ali1234> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -l
<ali1234> also there is the raw kernel interface /sys/class/backlight/*/brightness
<TJ-> it's not the kernel setting that's the problem, it's just the user session on resume
<TJ-> E.g. when this happens the greeter/lock-screen is fine on vt8, consoles on ttys, but as soon as I authenticate and it switches back to vt7 it goes blank (which I now know is because it is setting the backlight brightness to 0 when switching to tty7)
<ali1234> yes but if you just want to override it, the kernel is the fastest way
<ali1234> whatever controls the backlight knows when you switch vt
<TJ-> Doesn't look like x.p.m. has an actual 'brightness-now' setting, I wonder if the taskbar icon's display brightness has a node I can poke
<TJ-> you're missing my point. I can be on a visible tty1-6 no problem, the moment I switch to tty7 (vt7) it resets the backlight brightness to 0, when I switch back to the tty1-6 it sets the original brightness
<ali1234> yes, because it knows what vt you are on
<ali1234> it just has the wrong idea about what the brightness should be
<TJ-> it feels like - only for the lid-close event - it's not clearing the visible flag in some instances
<ali1234> you can't control that externally
<TJ-> I'll drop some debug on the state of the priv->visible flag to track if that's the problem
<TJ-> Thanks for the pointer to xfconf-query, that's really useful
<TJ-> I'm going to try changing the sysfs brightness from SSH whilst vt7 is active
<TJ-> this is interesting; sysfs brightness can be set but actual_brightness doesn't change from 0
<TJ-> ahhh! it's affecting bl_power. =0 when on vt7 and =4 when on a console
<TJ-> ha, got it back-to-front. bl_power=4 when its blank, bl_power=0 when a console is visible. Still don't seem to be able to override the vt8 setting though, it's changing it back from 0 to 4 immediately
<TJ-> ahh, xfpm-brightness.c is writing to .xsession-errors "No outputs have backlight property" ... I'll drop a delay loop in there see if it is a timing issue
<pleia2> support ticket open on our dev.x.o vps, it's having sadness this morning
<pleia2> "We have detected an issue affecting the physical host your Linode resides on."
<TJ-> Hmmm, not sure what's going on here. Noticed that sometimes, when on a console or SSH, if I do 'systemctl restart lightdm' it kills the console/ssh session and I have to log-in again.
<ali1234> could be seat confusion
<ali1234> lightdm had some race conditions a long long time ago, where it would re-use the seat before it was freed, leading to it getting freed after you logged in
<ali1234> let me see if i can find the bug, it might be useful to look at the lightdm logs
<TJ-> thanks... seems like I'm collecting more bugs than I'm fixing right now!
<TJ-> I've done something that is causing light-locker to exit prematurely but not sure what; nothing in the log to say. 
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1256150
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1256150 in lightdm (Ubuntu Trusty) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [High,Fix released]
<ali1234> also this https://i.imgur.com/miVHGTP.gifv
<pleia2> vps has recovered
<TJ-> No, that bug doesn't match. Can't see one that matches right now but I'll leave that to one side whilst I chase this missing backlight issue
<ali1234> it is possible that the two are related
<ali1234> like, maybe it's confused about which vt woke up, so doesn't set the backlight properly and also logs you out of the one it thinks it should set the backlight on... something weird like that
<ali1234> it's a long shot but worth keeping in mind
<ali1234> there's also that bug where sometimes the installer doesn't correctly switch to the vt where the message "please remove the install media and reboot" is displayed
<ali1234> it seems to switch to a different one instead
<TJ-> the lid-close>suspend>resume>vt7-no-backlight  definitely feels like some kind of race condition. Proving very difficult to debug
<TJ-> hmmm, so light-locker exiting was actually a core-dump because I tried to deference a null pointer with a gs_debug() statement. So now I have resumed and VT7 is showing the "This session is locked, You'll be redirected to the unlock automatically in a few seconds" but it isn't doing that, and the mouse pointer is not movable!
<TJ-> restart lightdm, it works fine now, doesn't make vt7 invisible. 
<hilpv> I keep experiencing this as well, when I switch away from my PC with my KVM
<hilpv> screensaver kicks in, and it seems unresponsive, switch to VT1, switch back to VT7 and it just says "This session is locked..."
<hilpv> Then, darkness.
<TJ-> My debug code is reporting, when switching /TO/ vt7: gs_manager_set_session_visible()=0 but I'm sure that should be 1, based on how the code handles the manager->priv->visible as a boolean
<TJ-> which, if I'm interpreting that correctly, that it's doing the wrong thing
<TJ-> ahh, false alarm, I'm printing the existing value not the value being passed into the function. Damn, that'd have been easy to fix.
<TJ-> hilpv: Something for you to try. Before closing lid to suspend, switch to tty1 so vt7 is not visible. Close lid > suspends ... Open lid > resumes ... see if it behaves differently
<TJ-> hilpv: need to do that from a restart of lightdm; once the session has problems it won't cure it
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-25
<bluesabre> !team | beta freeze today (3/25), beta release on Thursday (3/28)
<ubottu> beta freeze today (3/25), beta release on Thursday (3/28): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> Maybe kick the tires if you've got some moments to spare ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: -screensaver is in Debian (not of my own doing), and xfdesktop patch? :3
<flocculant> bluesabre: any idea of likely respins? I will do some vm tests but don't want to do them and respins ...
<flocculant> and there's not a beta on the tracker yet either
<brainwash> booted the daily iso, did a logout, and the greeter shows no wallpaper
<brainwash> just a black background
<brainwash> bluesabre: locking with xfce4-screensaver gives me a black screen until mouse movement, then I can briefly see the unlock screen followed by the unlocked desktop
<brainwash> bluesabre: that is the live session, so no password set
<Spass> can confirm, black background on a new user's login screen, it's a side effect of changing the Plymouth background, because (I think) it's used as a default LightDM background also
<brainwash> so, the lightdm config needs to point to a different location
<Spass> later it gets changed to user background by default, but the first login looks strange indeed
<brainwash> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/usr/share/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/30_xubuntu.conf
<Spass> yeah, it probably should link to /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-wallpaper.png
<knome> bluesabre, ping! ^
<knome> actually we probably want yet another simple file...
<Spass> like old Plymouth ones, but just for LightDM?
<Spass> since LightDM has a fade effect to a user wallpaper, it would be better to have some slightly less "distracting" and colorful image than current default wallpaper, in my opinion, so I think I know what you mean knome
<brainwash> something like just the background without the forms and lines?
<Spass> yes
<Spass> that's what it used to be
<Spass> I mean, it was that way before :)
<Spass> I'm upgrading disco in my VM right now and I got this message - https://i.imgur.com/yK3IQUV.png
<Spass> and a crash
<brainwash> Spass: no crash report popup?
<Spass> I have the popup, will paste it in 1 sec
<flocculant> I had a bunch of those - in this installed system last week
<Spass> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jQ2CNXH62c/
<flocculant> while updating too iirc
<Spass> after I clicked 'Send" in the crash report window - https://i.imgur.com/1f170I2.png
<brainwash> Spass: probably bug 1813855
<ubottu> bug 1813855 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "wrapper-2.0 crashed with SIGSEGV in garcon_menu_item_action_get_name()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813855
<Spass> yes, looks like it
<Spass> well, since I'm testing I'll let you know about this small issue also - https://i.imgur.com/xBJlFXd.png
<Spass> but I should probably report that on #xfce-dev instead
<Spass> xfdesktop doesn't respect that setting any more, icons in menus are still showing
<brainwash> a report for that exists
<Spass> oh ok, sorry
<brainwash> Spass: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14770
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14770 in General "Disabling "Show images in menus" has no effect" [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<Spass> and unfortunately Window Manager settings window is still broken, but I've reported that already here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1785143
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1785143 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce4-settings-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_drag_finish()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Spass> (for cosmic, but it seems unchanged)
<brainwash> that happens when no one looks into it
<brainwash> looks like a blocker for Xfce 4.14
<brainwash> ask in #xfce-dev what they think about it
<brainwash> Spass: does it crash in 19.04 with xfwm 4.12?
<brainwash> I can confirm that the dragged buttons disappear in the embedded xfwm4-settings window
<brainwash> but no crash
<Spass> crash is not 100% of the time, I use xfwm4 4.13.1 on my Disco install (I use some Xubuntu dev PPAs)
<Spass> I'm reporting a new crash to LP now, because it looks slightly different from my last report
<brainwash> okay
<Spass> it crashed xfwm4-settings and xfce4-settings-manager in the same time
<Spass> hope this helps - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1821638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821638 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "xfwm4-settings assert failure: xfwm4-settings: ../../../../src/cairo-surface.c:1734: cairo_surface_mark_dirty_rectangle: Assertion `! _cairo_surface_has_mime_data (surface)' failed." [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> reference this report in your upstream report
<Spass> ok, will do
<Spass> yep, that xfce4-settings-manager crash in dingo is the same as it was in cosmic, "Send" button worked on that one from the report window - https://i.imgur.com/kEhgSvc.png
<Spass> I've added some new information to my old upstream report - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14606
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14606 in Settings "xfwm4-settings keeps crashing when changing 'Button layout'" [Normal,New]
<cyphermox> Unit193: bluesabre: judging from more way-more-looking-at-packagesets-than-I-really-want-to-do; I think you're missing xfce4-volumed from your 'supported' seed :)
<Unit193> cyphermox: You are correct, this used to be seeded but we moved to -pulseaudio-plugin (which replaces indicator-sound and -volumed.)
<cyphermox> ah!
<cyphermox> cool; ignore me then :)
<Unit193> Well, you're right.
<Unit193> That's just how it was missed, it wasn't moved to supported but entirely dropped.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-26
<bluesabre> Unit193, xfdesktop uploaded
<bluesabre> thanks for the reminders :D
<bluesabre> flocculant, probably, but I haven't actually heard
<Unit193> Sorry for poking so much..
<bluesabre> It's really the only way to get me to do anything
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: lightdm-gtk-greeter: Default to the Xubuntu desktop wallpaper now that Plymouth is release-agnostic @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=684131dffca689d84d540f05afaadf5acf837e69 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> sound good, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/+bug/1821662 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821662 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu) "[SRU] xfce4-weather-plugin 0.8.11" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> suppose if we want to trigger a respin, we'll have fresh xfdesktop4 for multi-monitor icons and xubuntu-default-settings for better lightdm bg
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1796144 is in -proposed for bionic, if folks want to check that out
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796144 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] xfwm4 4.12.5 for bionic" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<bluesabre> that's enough for tonight... g'night all
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack - just checking if you'd heard of anything I guess - cheers, I will wait a day 
<knome> Spass, bluesabre: kind of like the old plymouth one, but a generic one that doesn't have to change with each release
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.3.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-3-2-released-tp52853.html (by Graeme Gott)
<Spass[m]> I think that some older backgrounds could work really well as a generic one for a login screen default, I have my suggestions (for example Plymouth from 15.04, wallpaper from 16.04 or 16.10), but maybe this page from our website will come handy, it's all in one place - https://xubuntu-pl.neocities.org/porady/tapety.html
<Spass[m]> that said, simply using "xubuntu-wallpaper.png" is a good solution too
<bluesabre> knome, so, some nice gradient-y xubuntu brand color bg, or maybe the ubiquity slideshow background?
<bluesabre> lp running into some timeouts :(
<bluesabre> there we go, SRU template entered and uploaded for xfce4-weather-plugin (xenial, bionic, cosmic) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/+bug/1821662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821662 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu Cosmic) "[SRU] xfce4-weather-plugin 0.8.11" [Undecided,In progress]
<knome> bluesabre, i have something drafted
<knome> bluesabre, i guess i should finish that off with ochosi, and once that's done, we should probably use it for plymouth too, because why not
<flocculant> ochosi: had whiskermenu crash during updates again - not sure if this helps > https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PKPhTV6YTx/
<Spass> I've seen some reports of broken dependencies in Xubuntu (removing mail reader/thunderbird removes xfdesktop), is it a known issue?
<Unit193> That's gnome-software being gnome-software, yes it's known.
<Spass> ah, that explains it
<Spass> gotta love gnome-software
<Unit193> It is removeing exo, which is kiiind of needed.
<brainwash> the fix was not backported to 18.04 though
<brainwash> and looks like several users ran into this problem
<Spass> thank you for the information
<brainwash> or 18.10
<brainwash> only 19.04 has the exo fix
<Unit193> 0.12.3 worked around the gnome-software bug (https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/tree/NEWS)
<brainwash> is it a gnome-software bug?
<Unit193> I'd say appstream or gnome-software, personally.  https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=ace928e207a4ada02c57e956c675e6d97bd75cf5
<brainwash> what could the gnome team have done differently?
<Unit193> Dunno, not wasting time on it.
<brainwash> exactly
<Unit193> Doesn't change anything.
<brainwash> only a potential SRU would change something :D
<Unit193> Just like how they don't know how to fix https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750994 properly, they decide it's unfixable.
<brainwash> this looks like a candidate
<ubottu> Gnome bug 750994 in Backend: X11 "X11: First mouse wheel event ignored after right click or Alt+Tab or Win key press" [Normal,Resolved: obsolete]
<Unit193> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348270 notes the workaround, so at least there's that.
<ubottu> KDE bug 348270 in general "Cannot scroll properly in GTK3 apps after focus switching" [Normal,Resolved: upstream]
<Unit193> brainwash: 1821662 and the xfwm sru's are more important, though.
<brainwash> no idea
<brainwash> the exo one is marked upstream as "critical"
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-27
<bluesabre> beta testcases are up, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/402/builds
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll try and get a couple done tonight
<ochosi> flocculant: that really looks like a whiskermenu issue with the version of garcon we have in ubuntu. did it really crash the whole panel or just the one plugin?
<knome> ochosi, around?
<flocculant> ochosi: just crashes whisker from what I can see - it restarted properly after the second go this last time - previously I lost it completely and my customisation of it
<flocculant> ochosi: also - I have everything I can think of telling the system to not run a screensaver nor any blanking from the power settings - it still seems to blank the screen
<flocculant> lightlocker is removed
<flocculant> not laptop of course
<flocculant> knome: hi there - always with an issue of late - did you know the wiki was dead? 
<flocculant> or did I miss some mail somehow ...
<flocculant> ochosi: https://streamable.com/ppy3t
<flocculant> presentation mode does at least work
<knome> flocculant, hmm, no, it should be up
<knome> but have to go now, will look at it tomorrow
<knome> thanks for the heads up
<flocculant> knome: no worries
<ochosi> flocculant: you probably have to *enable* display power management, otherwise the X11 default settings are used for screen blanking
<ochosi> you can query those settings with "xset -q" in the terminal (check for DPMS and Screen Saver)
<Unit193> FWIW, regarding the panel I do not have whisker.
<ochosi> well it sounded more like flocculant had an issue with whisker, not with the whole panel (unless i misunderstood his latest messages)
<ochosi> so i think you're seeing different issues
<ochosi> can you reproduce your bug?
<Unit193> I'd have presumed so as well, and not in a reliable way.
<ochosi> maybe you can check xsession-errors or some other hint?
<ochosi> alternatively compile the panel with debug=full and run it for some time and try to reproduce?
<Unit193> Indeed, there wasn't much there.
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> so i guess without a little more to go on i'm not sure how much i can do...
<Unit193> Last update caused the window buttons plugin to freeze, and kill didn't work without -9. :/  Oh yes, I'm not really saying you can, just figured it'd be remiss if I didn't bother to mention it at all, in case someone else had it as well.
<ochosi> and that's a plain install of 19.04?
<Unit193> Well, not precisely, no.  But it is 19.04
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-28
<bluesabre> ochosi, something to come back to in 19.10... GNOME's new icons are pretty bad at smaller resolutions, we'll probably want to add our own for gnome-fonts and gnome-mines
<bluesabre> lots of changes since cosmic, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/disco_changes
<bluesabre> oh, ubuntu-mono finally got a reasonable package version update (from 16.10+18.10.20181005-0ubuntu1 in cosmic to 19.04-0ubuntu1	in disco)
<Unit193> Wooohooo!
<flocculant> ochosi: I previously had display power enabled - still did the same thing - xset -q shows this for screensaver > timeout:  300    cycle:  300
<flocculant> which I assume is 5 minutes and we'll ignore what you want?
<flocculant> ochosi: one other thing - this all suddenly started happening over the last couple of weeks - so it's something 'we' did to my system, I've not been about long enough to do anything to change it myself
<flocculant> ochosi: last annoying ping then ... so with display management enabled and presentation mode set to on - we turn my display off
<flocculant> installing Ubuntu :D
<bluesabre> knome, confirming that the wiki seems to be dead
<bluesabre> knome, https://dev.xubuntu.org/ also looks... unwell
<knome> weird
<knome> i made some changes yesterday -- but nothing that should affect things like this
<knome> meh
<knome> but let's see..
<knome> i retract my statement
<Unit193> Duuude, learn to )
<knome> there was a parenthesis missing
<knome> yeaaaah
<knome> but dev still misses the stylesheet
<knome> what's that about?
<knome> oh
<knome> http
<knome> there we go
<knome> sigh
<knome> it's all fixed now
<knome> we really should get this all running under wordpress so we didn't have to maintain custom code for stuff
<Unit193> So, ran updates too.
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> thanks knome and Unit193!
<Unit193> (I didn't do it, knome beat me.)
<bluesabre> I retract my statement
<bluesabre> there was a Unit193 missing
<bluesabre> Going to try to bust out a quick 19.04 beta release note
<knome> updates?
<knome> i think that was pleia2 
<knome> i try to avoid server maintenance :P
<Unit193> I'm still under the impression I'm the backup Just in Caseâ¢
<knome> well, pleia2 has a kid now
<knome> so you might want to change your impression ;)
<astraljava> We don't really know whether Unit193 has kids, too, do we? I mean, [s]he's not that open about [his|her] personal life. :p
<Unit193> Unfortunately, I'm not as much of a closed book as one might think.
<astraljava> Oh ok, well then, maybe some people do know. :)
<bluesabre> We should package https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-announce/2019-February/000671.html for disco
<Unit193> Done.
<bluesabre> Cool
<bluesabre> WIP release notes: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/19.04/release-notes
<Unit193> Is this safe to push, considering beta freeze?
<bluesabre> Should be. I think the archive is frozen and somebody will have to release it manually.
<Unit193> OK, pushed.
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Did we push weather?
<Unit193> And sure thing, I guess we'll see if it gets in.
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/disco/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/+changelog
<Unit193> ...Shoulda put your name on it. >_<
<bluesabre> nahhhh
<bluesabre> I've marked our image ready, and linked our release notes on #ubuntu-release, so I think we should be good to go for today
<Unit193> Thanks for writing those too!
<Unit193> Need more SASL.
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> Also, some combination of znc/hexchat/+r poorly handles disconnects. Had to restart znc to get back into debian-xfce and other channels
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, if you have the ability to push https://sources.debian.org/src/gigolo/0.4.90-1/debian/patches/ ?
<Unit193> (Xubuntu core hasn't been tested yet, won't be able to until much later today.)
<ochosi> bluesabre: please create the corresponding issues against elementary-xfce, i can try to fix that for 19.10
<pleia2> I still do regular updates to the dev server, but I haven't done them in a few weeks
<flocculant> knome: did you do something - or is it just working now and was local?
<flocculant> ochosi: well - I'm now trying to see what happens if I purge xfce4-screensaver and use light-locker instead
<flocculant> knome: never mind - missing lines from logs here for some reason - found missing bits on irclogs.u.c
<flocculant> ochosi: wasn't that then ... very annoying 
<oleks> Hi, I was wondering, is there a way to change the "Please unlock disk"-text when booting into an Xubuntu with full disk encryption?
<oleks> wandering*
<flocculant> wondering was right :)
<oleks> true
<flocculant> oleks: it'll likely be a string in a file somewhere - which you might be able to change - try using grep -R "search string" - I looked here but as I don't have encryption I don't have the file
<ochosi> flocculant: okeydokey
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure what's causing it - can't find anything in /home relatable - last option will be to nuke .xfce stuff and see - would rather not though lol
<ochosi> how about just creating a new user?
<ochosi> you can easily delete it again later
<ochosi> then you don't have to mess with your settings
<oleks> flocculant: it occurs in /usr/share/cryptsetup/initramfs/bin/cryptroot-unlock, /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/cryptroot, and /lib/cryptsetup/cryptdisks.functions
<flocculant> ochosi: true 
<flocculant> ochosi: I stopped thinking about things like this lately lol - catches me out all over again ...
<flocculant> oleks: ok - I'm just going to do a test install for tomorrow's beta - I'll do an encrypt test - and see if it goes horribly wrong changing the string
<ochosi> hehe, sure
<flocculant> ochosi: ;)
<oleks> flocculant: I'm fine testing, it's a fresh install
<oleks> I just need to know how to reinstall initramfs after changing its configurations
<flocculant> no idea without looking
<flocculant> ochosi: checked a new user - works as expected
<flocculant> I'll dig a bit deeper next week - or just nuke me 
<ochosi> flocculant: ok nice
<Unit193> Xubuntu Core hit https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=892010
<ubottu> Debian bug 892010 in exo-utils "exo-utils: exo-preferred-applications does not run with error "exo-helper-1: not found"" [Normal,Open]
<Unit193> As noted by Emery Fletcher, not me.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-29
<bluesabre> Unit193, re: exo, currently working on making all the scripts use exo-2 paths
<bluesabre> since exo-2 should now be default
<bluesabre> Unit193, I think this commit will do it, but will do some tests and whatnot to confirm, https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=de2d50f242299b8d6ea9945b91eff23585e6f091
<bluesabre> Unit193, did a lot of de-versioning in exo, https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/, and uploaded an exp package to https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental... going to test it out tomorrow in a vm and see if everything still works
<oleks> flocculant: I did initramfs -k all -c after changing the text in the files I found, and everything went alright :-)
<Unit193> Since you are editing a file in /usr/share, you should be aware that package upgrades will simply overwrite it.
<oleks> Unit193: thanks for the heads up, but I hope that the actuall important setting was in /lib/cryptsetup/
<Unit193> Same difference.
<oleks> Unit193: fair enough, I guess I'd have to add internationalization settings to some package to make this permanent?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, and thanks for looking into it!
<Spass[m]> I think that 24px panel is getting to small for modern resolutions, maybe you/we could think about changing it to something bigger? 26?
<Spass[m]> 24 would be ok if it was used just as an information panel with notification icons, but since Xubuntu uses it for Window Buttons, something bigger would be slightly better imho
<Spass[m]> *too small
<bluesabre> Unit193, from some limited testing, looks like everything is good there. Do you have any concerns about those changes (moving pixmaps to common, moving helpers and such to exo-2, removing the version from the perl script)
<bluesabre> oh boy, all my recent SRUs are starting to get accepted into proposed
<knome> flocculant, i did somethikg :)
<bluesabre> knome, that finnish word at the end looks awfully familiar
<Unit193> It's Finnish for "TAKE A HIKE!!"
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> heh
<ochosi> knome: i'm a little out of touch but is everything sorted artwork-wise for 19.04?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I haven't specifically looked at the changes, but having the perl helper in exo-2 just delays the issue a bit, no?
<bluesabre> Unit193, the perl helper is moved to common since it's not compiled
<bluesabre> (and doesn't depend on either lib)
<Unit193> I like how there's -common and -helpers.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-30
<bluesabre> (I think those could be joined)
<bluesabre> cosmic > disco upgrade was smooth
<bluesabre> new gnome icons have ditched any semblance to tango and feel completely alien now :(
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i guess we need more fallbacks..?
<ochosi> or alternatively we switch to adwaita as basis and just extend with an addon it until xfce works
<ochosi> wooops, word order...
<bluesabre> ochosi, basically, all gnome icons look closer to arc than elementary-xfce or tango... and small icons are just a poorly scaled mess :\
<ochosi> that latter part contradicts what their latest blog posts about those changes suggested
<ochosi> they sold it as "you dont have to create so many small icons anymore"
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you have an example though where the gnome icons "shine through"? i thought we had a pretty complete icon theme
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screenshooter 1.9.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screenshooter-1-9-5-released-tp52885.html (by Andre Miranda)
<bluesabre> ochosi, devhelp, gnome-disks, baobab, gnome-fonts, gnome-mines... probably more if I install more gnome things, https://imgur.com/a/ksrL8Fj
<bluesabre> I think that selling it is the general "it's an svg, it scales in all directions fine"
<ochosi> a few of those other icons look out of place too though...
<ochosi> (pdf arranger? :))
<bluesabre> ochosi, well, certainly... but prior to the new icons, the gnome ones fit in fine
<bluesabre> and looked good at 16px :)
<ochosi> yeah, the scaling is crap
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-31
<bluesabre> ochosi, care to take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1756608 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756608 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Applications Menu plugin clips panel icon." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> also probably related: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1756612
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756612 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Launch and Directory Menu items icons are too small" [Undecided,Confirmed]
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-23
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.9 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-9-released-tp57959.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> Unit193: pushed the xfce4-session merge to https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring/+packages
<Unit193> Fantastic!
<bluesabre> We can sync elemenary-xfce tomorrow
<bluesabre> I'll probably go ahead and push greybird tomorrow if we don't hear an ack since its a pretty safe one
<Unit193> Saw your UIFe, figured I should get that moving first.
<bluesabre> I'll package up the screensaver now
<Unit193> Oh?  Debian or Ubuntu?
<bluesabre> Suppose either or
<bluesabre> You can upload to Debian these days, right?
<Unit193> Yes sir.
<bluesabre> Neato
<Unit193> I was gonna do that if you did -session, but looks like I'm about to get lucky. :P
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, for d/watch, see https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/apps/gigolo/-/commit/ea6abfbd5681258c3f465bcaafaaff6c2ebff356
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh... is the screensaver not in salsa?
<Unit193> It's in salsa, d/watch needs to be update to match what gigolo did is all.
<bluesabre> nvm
<bluesabre> gitlab does dumb filtering by default
<Unit193> Gitlab is a bit dumb, yeah.
<bluesabre> Unit193: suddenly got overtaken with sleepiness. https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-extras-team/xfce4-screensaver/-/tree/debian/master is basically done, but if you want to further tweak or improve, feel free (or I can tomorrow)
<misko_> Hey devs
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<jphilips> Unit193: is there any intent to do LTS point releases for core?
<jphilips> Unit193: ran the core installer and the installer crashed and mentioned that it would send in a bug, and i waited an then remembered, there is no web browser :D
<jphilips> waited and* then
<jphilips> was running the 20.04 core that was last built on march 18th
<Unit193> jphilipz: As I I've said, the focus is only on the current release, so nope not in the slightest.  Hah, yep that's always a fun one, though you should at least still get a crash in /var/crash/ and perhaps some logs.
<jphilips> Unit193: didnt crash when i installed from the live session, but did crash from the 'Install Xubuntu' from the grub menu. will run the installer that way again to get the crash report for you.
<Unit193> Ah, yeah there's been problems in the past with that one, it's more touch and go for some reason.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.13 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-13-released-tp57986.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
<Unit193> jphilips: So you didn't just install a browser and try reporting again?
<jphilips> wasnt sure what to do and presumed the same crash would happen from the live session, so restarted into live session, install firefox and then ran the installer again, but no crash
<Unit193> Was thinking more switching to a TTY, but eh.  Sounds like a lot of effort for not a lot of gain, since the installer works.
<jphilips> now that that didnt happen and you commented about /var/crash/ i know what can be done :D
<jphilips> bug reported https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1868630
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868630 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Crash at end of installer" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> That log is from apport, the bug reporter, crashing.
<Unit193>    File "/usr/bin/apport-cli", line 49, in raw_input_char
<Unit193>      saved_attributes = termios.tcgetattr(file)
<jphilips> that was the only file in /var/crash/
<jphilips> and the installation didnt complete
<jphilips> system is unbootable
<bluesabre> Unit193: triggered the sync for elementary-xfce
<Unit193> thunar counts as a bugfix release, yes?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, I'd say so.
<ochosi> hrm, can we still sync a xfpm 1.6.7 if i tag one (and revert the troublemaker commit)?
<bluesabre> Unit193: did you have anything else you wanted me to add to https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-extras-team/xfce4-screensaver/-/tree/debian/master ?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yep
<ochosi> since there are a few other fixes we want
<Unit193> bluesabre: I looked, I didn't really see anything noteworthy.
<Unit193> ..missing, of course.
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool... want to sponsor into debian, or should I go ahead and upload a -0ubuntu1?
<Unit193> Did you want to add yourself to uploaders too? :>
<Unit193> I like how I get an email for any upload to one of my packages...
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Since I don't do any Debian uploading on the Xfce side, I'll leave myself off for now
<Unit193> OK, so I take it you want me to do the final upload?
<bluesabre> I get in enough trouble for not maintaining my debian python projects
<Unit193> Err, final commit for upload*
<bluesabre> Yeah, or I can
<bluesabre> Either or
<bluesabre> I just can't do the actual uploading
<Unit193> Honestly I just don't want to throw a wrench at corsac.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> I can do a -0ubuntu1 ;)
<Unit193> I'll do it in a minute, foooood.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh!  You saw the conclusion with my discussion about gir?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-24
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages?field.name_filter=xfce4-screensaver
<jphilips> i've just completed the preliminary bug hunting session announcement text here, all are welcome to edit and comment - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PVui1kB1JijGCoBPdkrg4P94LS4DozLtEJ37GKWga2E/edit#heading=h.kpgv9ngwzu24
<jphilips> pleia2 bluesabre: ^^^
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> Unit193: can you also sync xfce4-screensaver to focal? It appears to not be in the packageset so I can't do it :(
<Unit193> Oh!
<Unit193> ...Weird.
<bluesabre> syncpackage -d unstable -r focal-proposed xfce4-screensaver
<bluesabre> If you want the copy-and-paste
<Unit193> I'll attribute to you.
<Unit193> !info xfce4-screensaver unstable
<ubottu> xfce4-screensaver (source: xfce4-screensaver): screen saver and locker that is integrated with the xfce4 desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1.3-2 (unstable), package size 254 kB, installed size 1010 kB
<Unit193> ...Wow.
<bluesabre> That seems... old
<bluesabre> Ah, because they put this block in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=919348
<ubottu> Debian bug 919348 in xfce4-screensaver "xfce4-screensaver: Accidental upload to unstable while fixing bug #919151" [Serious,Open]
<Unit193> Yes, but unstable...
<Unit193> Case in point.
<jphilips> Unit193: did you not want to include the xubuntu installer slideshow in xubuntu core though it wouldnt be installed on the system anyway?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<jphilips> may i ask the reasoning, as with minimal installs from ubiquity, distros still show the installer slides
<Unit193> Basically because it's not needed at all considering the target for this, it'd also be "misleading" since it mentions some applications installed, which aren't.
<jphilips> unlock other distro slideshows, we dont mention any other software other than gnome software in the slide
<jphilips> slide 2 is documentation
<jphilips> slide 3 is irc
<jphilips> slide 4 is getting involved
<Unit193> Nice, so at least that's been changed.
<jphilips> sebastien closed my bug with instructions but unfortunately i cant update appport being to old and no means of updating it as there is no space left on device :D
<jphilips> will the next core build come out soon?
<jphilips> bluesabre pleia2: would the bug hunting session announcement go on the blog or news?
<pleia2> jphilips: It all ends up on the blog, but you want the News category
<pleia2> jphilips: made a couple comments in the doc, do you want to make clear that this is a testing week that multiple flavors are participating in (it's call the Ubuntu testing week, so it's probably obvious, but just want to confirm)
<jphilips> pleia2: thanks. yes mentioning 'participating' was important and will add that.
<pleia2> it's a great blog post :) thanks for putting so many resources together
<jphilips> pleia2: thanks. glad you liked it
<jphilips> pleia2: do you think we could add any image to the post to spice it up?
<pleia2> jphilips: sure, I've used unsplash.com for license-free, high-quality photos
<pleia2> could use something like https://unsplash.com/photos/7d4LREDSPyQ maybe?
<pleia2> (gosh, a lot of the computer photos on this site are macs! haha!)
<jphilips> pleia2: think i'll embed 2 of the youtube videos, as they have thumbnails
<pleia2> ok
<jphilips> You can have a peak at it here https://xubuntu.org/?p=4739
<jphilips> i've scheduled it to release on the 26th at 12pm
<pleia2> looks good :)
<pleia2> syncing up announcement with other flavors or something? (wondering why not just do it tomorrow)
<jphilips> yes the plan is for everyone to release at the same time and people need time to prepare theirs
<pleia2> makes sense :)
<brainwash> new version of "Floating Xfce" is out :D
<brainwash> jphilips: it was you who reported bug 1834798
<ubottu> bug 1834798 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "incorrect labels and icons pulled from .desktop files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1834798
<jphilips> yep
<jphilips> update-manager is so full of bugs that i hate using it
<jphilips> reported a bug that it maxes out my CPU when it looks at various package changelogs or descriptions
<brainwash> poorly maintained most likely
<brainwash> network icon in panel looks odd now
<brainwash> it looks like this (wired):  <Â·Â·Â·>
<ali1234> ever since i upgraded to +1, a bunch of programs run on start up that i do not want
<ali1234> like firefox and pidgin
<ali1234> seems to be the session restore code
<ali1234> but the thing is i have that disabled and always have
<ali1234> annoyingly firefox does the same thing. re-opens all previous tabs even though i have supposedly disabled that behavior
<ali1234> so whenever i log in i get a firefox window with millions of tabs
<brainwash> clear session cache
<brainwash> or maybe those apps sneaked in some autostart launcher
<jphilips> brainwash: yep i notice it changed to <...> a while back
<brainwash> jphilips: looks out of place
<jphilips> definitely didnt like it, but presume it was ochosi and MauG's decision to change it
<Unit193> jphilips: It can, sure.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-25
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hrm, xfce4-screensaver still has a --no-daemon option but doesn't seem to daemonize?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yep, pretty much
<Unit193> :(
<regularsam> Hi, where can I ask for support about the Xubuntu 20.04 Wallpaper contest?
<Unit193> Submissions are closed and it's voting time, if that relates to your question?
<regularsam> No, it's not related to this. I tried to contact support via email before because I couldn't get access to this channel, and I hope I'm still in time. Can I ask for it?
<regularsam> I forgot to say, I saw no answers where coming in the email, probably due to something I did wrong on my own
<Unit193> You mean the devel mailing list?  Anywho what's the question?  I may well not be able to answer, and I believe the one that may won't be back for several hours.
<regularsam> Basically I uploaded for accident more then 5 files, 6 to be precise, I was honestly trying to test if the limit of uploads was forced. So, since I don't want to cheat and partecipate rightfully, could I remove one of the uploads to get back to 5?
<regularsam> Yeah, I tried to contact you from devel mailing list a while back. The contest was still running when I did it
<Unit193> Oh, which would you like to remove?  If you state it now, Sean will see your message later and can remove it if you so desire.
<regularsam> Thank you so much!
<regularsam> I'll send you the link
<regularsam> https://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/con_5.png
<regularsam> This one, if it's possible
<Unit193> I think a fair amount of people have voted so it might be moot, but Sean will surely see scrollback here. :)
<regularsam> Now I'm not sure anymore, hahahah. The choice was tough, I got this files from an algo I wrote 3-4 months back in Processing and I really like all the outputs I got from it, I've put so much love in this particular project.
<regularsam> But yeah, I prefer to be honest and have the same opportuinities of the other partecipants
<regularsam> Thanks a lot for your answer, you were very kind
<Unit193> Hah, well happy to try and answer questions.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.14 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-14-released-tp58014.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
<albinard> Just tested the Xubuntu Core ISO of 03/25 on HP p7-1010, AMD64, BIOS, 6GB RAM.  Live works fine, installed from Live, currently running extremely well.
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Heya.
<albinard> As usual, a great ISO with no hassles - nice work!
<Unit193> Glad it all works still.
<jphilips> Unit193: what do you know, the installer crash you reported 3 years ago :D
<jphilips> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1557739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1557739 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-bug crashed with termios.error in raw_input_char(): (25, 'Inappropriate ioctl for device')" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Unit193> As I said, it's been seen before. :P
<Unit193> I've been doing this core stuff too long, geeez. :3
<jphilips> 2014 if i remember correctly from the text on the homepage :D
<jphilips> something must be wrong with the core image, as doing the same thing on xubuntu cause the same problem. maybe something you left out is causing this.
<jphilips> xubuntu doesn't* cause
<jphilips> screenshot of the terminal output at the time of the crash https://imgur.com/lgTRVKU.png
<jphilips> is there a installer log to see the terminal output which you can see
<Unit193> Sometimes ~/.xsession-errors, then the logs in /var/log/installer/
<jphilips> no didnt find anything similar to the installer log in those places
<jphilips> Unit193: i found where the output went and attached it to the bug report
<jphilips> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/470744313/syslog%20-%20internet%20on%2C%20updates%20on%2C%20non-free%20drivers%20on%20-%20mod.txt
<Unit193> Ah yes, syslog.  I forgot.
<Unit193> Keeping in mind of course that the bug I filed was against apport and not the installer..
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-26
<jphilips> i tried to report the bug like sebastien suggested and it came up as a duplicate of your bug
<jphilips> Xubuntu 20.04 Testing Week - https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-20-04-testing-week/
<bluesabre> great post jphilipz 
<Unit193> Bluuuuuueeee
<bluesabre> One Ninety Threeeeeee
<bluesabre> Unit193: you're the last active xubuntu-team member that hasn't voted on wallpapers.. ;-)
<Unit193> Yeeeeah, there were so many options. :33
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you see the scrollback here?
<Unit193> /lastlog regularsam
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, I wasn't caring about too many submissions, and just voting on everything
<Unit193> Figured.
<bluesabre> a good number of folks that overdid it didn't get my votes anyway ;)
<Unit193> I don't tend to go with pictures, but when I do it's more like https://unit193.net/images/Japan.jpg - https://unit193.net/images/Light%20Pillars.jpg - https://unit193.net/images/Russian%20Ice.jpg so the current selections are a bit complicated. :3
<bluesabre> Yep, I get that :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks. was hoping that you'd read it before it went up ;D
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, last night didn't work for me... :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Slowly going through them now.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-27
<bluesabre> Unit193: thank you
<Unit193> bluesabre: Holy heck there were some good ones.  I don't think I trimmed the list very well, but need a tarball of the 20 selected. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> David Chacon has some really good ones...
<Unit193> bluesabre: How many did you accept? :3
<Unit193> 1. Can the thing have a count of how many you vote for so you don't have to manually count?  2. Would it be possible for it to offer a download with all your selections?
<bluesabre> Unit193: 42 it seems
<Unit193> I don't feel as bad now.
<krytarik> Hahaha. XD
<bluesabre> ochosi: we need you to vote for the remaining 21 :)
<Unit193> Hrm, well there's a couple more I need than just the ones I voted for.
<krytarik> ..You are holding back on upvotes! :(
<Unit193> Well had to trim them...
<jphilips> bluesabre: well when you got time, please have a peek at the video script
<ochosi> bluesabre: the not-voting was a 0
<knome> trying to game the system, eh?
<knome> (:
<knome> Unit193, i can add a counter, i don't know about the download
<knome> Unit193, would it help to have a list of links to all of your upvotes?
<Unit193> Perhaps?
<knome> i'll see what i can do,
<knome> s/,/./
<knome> at some point at least
<knome> now for some real work
<knome> or pay me more per hour to prioritize
<knome> ;)
<knome> tasty coffee
<Unit193> Pay you to drink coffee?
<knome> nah
<knome> pay me to fix yer thing :
<Unit193> I, uh...don't want fixed. ;3
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Thanks for making this thing anyway.
<knome> np!
<bluesabre> krytarik: you are also in team, would you like to take some time voting on wallpapers?
<bluesabre> with no more votes and no changes in votes, there are currently only 5 winners :o
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add supported-maas seed with all the packages that moved from maas dependencies to maas snap @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=eaef590aa2868e98d67c114bbc655be1964ddf6f (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i can try to go back and vote on a few more of those zeros
<ochosi> not sure if it'll help though
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2020-March/001274.html we've got to get a roll on that. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: indeed, Iâm planning to have a very productive weekend
<ochosi> bluesabre: indeed, wasnt there the xfpm/screensaver mess ;)
<ochosi> tbh i'm not very consciously using xfce4-screensaver, i hardly lock my screen...
<ochosi> but i was wondering if e.g. the inhibit feature worked with xfpm 1.6.5
<ochosi> since it used the wrong dbus path for xfce4-screensaver
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-28
<krytarik> bluesabre: O_o !  I did vote already, even twice due to the intial voting issue, and the second time was at the end of last week.  I hope you aren't saying it all got lost again for some reason and I have to start over again.. XD
<bluesabre> krytarik: oh, nope, you're good
<bluesabre> not sure what I was thinking
<krytarik> Pheeew! \o/
<bluesabre> ochosi: whats the bug number for xfpm/screensaver inhibition
<bluesabre> I tested with both whats in 20.04 and xfpm 1.7, and they're triggering inhibition in the screensaver logs
<bluesabre> (separate logs)
<bluesabre> [listener_remove_ref_entry] gs-listener-dbus.c:684 (06:12:44.337):	 Removing inhibitor from xfce4-power-manager for reason 'Inhibit requested' on connection :1.2364
<bluesabre> [listener_add_ref_entry] gs-listener-dbus.c:652 (06:12:52.903):	 Adding inhibitor from xfce4-power-manager for reason 'Inhibit requested' on connection :1.2364
<bluesabre> also, since xfpm 1.7 uses a switch in the menu, the menu probably shouldn't close when toggling :)
<bluesabre> oh, I see the 1.6.6 commit
<bluesabre> Testing that
<bluesabre> oh, that pulls session in too
<bluesabre> dangggg
<Unit193> We're supposed to stick on 1.6.x
<bluesabre> Right, I was trying to fix the bug ochosi nagged me about (which is also present in 1.6)
<bluesabre> Alrighty, looks like a bug in the screensaver
<bluesabre> Session expects a response, xfce4-screensaver doesn't send one, gnome-screensaver sends an empty one... so guess I'll send an empty one
<bluesabre> ochosi: patched and commented on that bug. Unit193: we might have a session patch incoming for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16522 (unless ochosi is feeling releasey)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16522 in General "Regression: Fail to lock on lid close" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> I have a few more screensaver patches coming in today, and probably another release
<Unit193> Dang, I guess I should have held off uploading. :3
<ochosi> i'll do a session release tonight
<ochosi> so no need for patching the package
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: feel free to pick up xfce4-session 4.14.2
<ochosi> i guess that has to go along with xfpm 1.6.6
<ochosi> and the latest patches in xfce4-screensaver
<ochosi> otherwise the clowns are coming
<ochosi> (yes, the killer clowns)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-session 4.14.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-session-4-14-2-released-tp58052.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
 * Unit193 runs.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-29
<ali1234> the version of xfwm4 in 20.04 appears to be affected by this bug https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15967
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15967 in General "NVidia: Windows disappear when zooming" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> (a patch is available)
<ali1234> i'll report this to launchpad
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1869567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869567 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "NVidia: Windows disappear when zooming" [Undecided,New]
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-4-3-released-tp58068.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-terminal 0.8.9.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-terminal-0-8-9-2-released-tp58069.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<bluesabre> ali1234: so, is it this commit that needs to be backported? https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=e5462de37a4b0a18c051e9a92ea6dce7cd7b79a8
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.10 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-10-released-tp58075.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> Unit193: interested in packaging pa-plug and screensaver? I can do session and xfwm if you want to split the work
<bluesabre> pa-plug requires exo now, but otherwise should be straightforward... screensaver we just did the other day, so a uscan / debian / sync should do the job
<Unit193> bluesabre: IIRC, session and -screensaver need to be uploaded sort of in sync, so I'd hold off uploading until -session was ready, for Debian at least.
<Unit193> But yeah that sounds fair to me.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.6.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-6-0-released-tp58077.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.6.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-6-0-released-tp58078.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<Unit193> Right!  I'm supposed to do packaging stuff for Xubuntu.  I got hung up on another team's packaging.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Still around?
<Unit193> Nevermind.
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/955327
<ubottu> Debian bug 955327 in wnpp "ITP: xfce4-desktop-service -- Use whatever file manager you want with Xfce" [Normal,Open]
