#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-28
<saltmiser> nice
<saltmiser> virtualbox vs. vmware?
<saltmiser> I noticted virtualbox doesn't really do multiple CPU's
<k1l_> vbox is easy to use
<saltmiser> but when I run vmware player with multiple cpu's I get excellent performance
<saltmiser> vbox has terrible smp performance, and it has for over a year..or two...now, why?
<k1l_> if you know what you are doing you want to go with vmware, imho
<saltmiser> alright
<saltmiser> I've been using virtualbox for a while and was always a little upset with it's lack of good multi cpu support
<saltmiser> I have a 6 core and well you know, it's bored
<saltmiser> I started using vmware recently and am much more happier
<saltmiser> I might actually start using windows as my real host OS again so I  can get some games in from tiem to time ;D
<rypervenche> KVM^^
<saltmiser> KVM?
<namesJay> Vmware ?
<saltmiser> rypervenche, you mean like qemu?
<rypervenche> Yep.
<saltmiser> people still use that?
<rypervenche> Of course.
<saltmiser> what is the advantage of using KVM/qemu these days when we have hardware supported virtualization?
<saltmiser> what other good discussion channels are there
<Amphibulus> saltmiser, KVM use the hardware virtualization
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-30
<Calinou> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12481540&postcount=10
<Calinou> oh look, someone's admin of me since 20 years ago
<Calinou> <_<
<Calinou> >_>
<Calinou> <_>
<Calinou> >_<
<bluefoxxx> What is the appropriate way to file feature requests?
<IdleOne> you file a bug at launchpad.net and in the bug title you put WISH:
<bluefoxxx> Next question
<IdleOne> rest of your title
<bluefoxxx> Are useful administrative tools "feature requests" or out of scope?  Or does it depend on the scope of the tool (i.e. apparently Apport was not out of scope)
<bluefoxxx> Specifically I have been want for a Linux analog of http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645 with command line and GUI interfaces for quite some time
<bluefoxxx> and no, that is not 'strace' or 'ltrace' (it's more like 'strace and ltrace everything all at once and apply filters')
<IdleOne> looks like you want htop with a GUi
<bluefoxxx> most of the stuff I work on has no gui but htop sounds good
<bluefoxxx> IdleOne, not sure that's relevant
<bluefoxxx> I just used process monitor here to deal with Aptana on Windows being stupid (and Windows being stupid in general)
<bluefoxxx> There's no visible configuration for ssh, and when Aptana tries to use git it calls sshw.exe, which calls ssh... telling it to filter for 'ssh.exe' and for 'id_dsa' in "path" got me down to 214 events (from 2,870,000)
<bluefoxxx> one of which showed me that it was searching a network path for .ssh/id_rsa instead of a local path
<bluefoxxx> (filtered for 'id_rsa' rather)
<bluefoxxx> that's what I'm looking for:  Admin tools that let you specify that vague things are happening on your system, and please tell me why and what
<bluefoxxx> oh well.  At least we have stuff like Puppet and Pulp and mcollective and ldap that can keep up with WSUS and SCCM and ActiveDirectory now.  Getting closer to parity.
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-01-27
<ytrezq> Hello How I can use ldap with bind in trusty?
<ytrezq> What is the package to get dns backend with bind?
<DJones> ytrezq: You're probably best joining #ubuntu+1 for queries about 14.04
<ytrezq> DJones: I don't think the package name change accross recent versions...
<DJones> It may not have done, but this channel is more a general discussion channel, but is very quiet, thats why I think #ubuntu+1 is probably your best chance of getting a response
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-01-29
<Atomix26> yo
<Atomix26> anyone like.... here?
<Atomix26> or something
<Atomix26> .-.
<Atomix26> :(
<Atomix26> Hello?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-01-30
 * jussi waves to Atomix26
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-01-27
<Liebknecht> Finally back on Ubuntu :)
<Liebknecht> Got a new machine, AMD 8350 and an Nvidia 970
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-01-28
<JanC> does anybody know why https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/ doesn't get updated anymore?
<JanC> some application developers were pointing to "their" page on it as an easy way to install their application...
<JanC> install it on Ubuntu
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-01-29
<Kuki> hi can i ask a question
<Kuki> Hey, i have a question , anyone there
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-01-31
<evil-god> huhu hrnz
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-01
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<DJones> Something you folks might find interesting http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/02/01/1357237/running-rm--rf--is-now-bricking-linux-systems?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
<rud0lf> hello
<Awesama> hi
<grass843> hello
<lotuspsychje> howdy cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> greetings lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: come to squoo :p
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Hey lotuspsychje :) Strap in tight for a Monday ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-02
<lotuspsychje> hi cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> yep yep yep
<johnny__> hello
<johnny__> someoneis french ?
<lotuspsychje> !fr | johnny__
<ubot5`> johnny__: Nous sommes desoles mais ce canal est en anglais uniquement. Si vous avez besoin d'aide ou voulez discuter en franÃ§ais, veuillez taper /join #ubuntu-fr ou /join #ubuntu-qc. Merci.
<johnny__> i speak english ;)
<johnny__> i speak english
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: your in japan now?
<cfhowlett> hai
<lotuspsychje> cool, where?
<cfhowlett> Tokyo
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> eat some sushi for me :p
<cfhowlett> yeah, boy!!!
<cfhowlett> sushi ... eh, perhaps not that ...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> "Ubuntu is now commanding 11.1% market-share among websites 'whose operating system we know'."  <<>>  http://w3techs.com/blog/entry/web_technologies_of_the_year_2015
<OerHeks> \o/
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-03
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> hi cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> greetings
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: all ok in tokyo?
<cfhowlett> yep.  found out today, I am ONE train stop from the only Michelin starred Ramen house ... so lunch tomorrow is ON  :)
<lotuspsychje> mmmmm
<lotuspsychje> i want ramen too :p
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: how long are you staying in japan?
<cfhowlett> 6 packs for $1 at Safeway ..
<cfhowlett> at least a year
<lotuspsychje> wow!
<lotuspsychje> lucky you
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: business or travel?
<cfhowlett> work, man!
<lotuspsychje> kk
<JanC> there is no Safeway here  :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> too bad
<JanC> but they have ramen in Carrefour & Delhaize + in asian shops
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> thats not the same
<cfhowlett> there is NO place on earth, that does not have nissen ramen in the 6 pack!
<JanC> they have Nissen ramen in Carrefour
<lotuspsychje> lolll
<JanC> probably some other chains/shops too
<cfhowlett> :)
<lotuspsychje> there's nothing that can beat fresh made japanese food
<cfhowlett> indeed
<lotuspsychje> omg its n00b hell again...
<cfhowlett> nah, that is definitely deliberate trolling.  I ignored about 300 lines ago
<JanC> lotuspsychje: not sure if they have fresh ramen, but they have fresh sushi in the Hyper Carrefour here in Bruges  :)
<Ben64> i hate everyone right now
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: what a mess in #ubuntu;..
<lotuspsychje> JanC: your from bruges?
<cfhowlett> meditation Ben64 , meditation ...
<JanC> yep
<lotuspsychje> JanC: me2 :p
<Ben64> trying to just eat pudding and watch the flash
<Ben64> people getting me all angry
<JanC> hehe
<lotuspsychje> time for brushing the channel
<lotuspsychje_> cfhowlett: set squoo to favorite mate :p
<cfhowlett> o - m - g ...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-04
<lotuspsychje> ohayo gozaimashita cfhowlett-san
<lotuspsychje> !vivid
<ubot5`> Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) was the 22nd release of Ubuntu. Support ended on February 4, 2016. See !eol, !eolupgrade and http://ubottu.com/y/vivid
<lotuspsychje> nice
<OerHeks> :-)
<lordievader> Good morning.
<circle_> Anybody up
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-05
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<daftykins> hallo all \o
<freeadnam> hello
<daftykins> hi
<freeadnam> I was just seeing if this really works. kinda new to irc
<daftykins> ah, plenty of other channels are useful for such testing then
<freeadnam> sorry, my bad.
<DosTuMai> Have you tried #ubuntu for any tech?
<DosTuMai> It's always great to have open just to watch these guys in awe.
<daftykins> as long as you can turn a blind eye to me slating the ones that enjoy reinventing the wheel
<DosTuMai> I'm just a network & cryptology nerd. >_>
<DosTuMai> xD
<daftykins> sudormrf -> well known channel idiot
<daftykins> if i could script i would have an auto reply of "what've you broken this time?" on his join
<OerHeks> wait .. i thought i was the channel id... never mind
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> aww sorry OerHeks i've stolen your dream title
<OerHeks> :-(
<OerHeks> please please please
<OerHeks> let me ruin one server tonight
<OerHeks>  /j #mint-server
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> oh did you guys read about that person who, for fun ran "rm -rf /" on their machine before planning to do a clean install... only to find that due to a bug in their system's EFI, their EFI boot variables were set as read-write... so the whole system was bricked
<daftykins> it wouldn't even POST after that
<daftykins> seriously nasty :S
<OerHeks> hang the disk in an other machine, non-uefi, and zero it ?
<daftykins> nah the rm actually wiped EFI items under /proc - which meant the motherboard was useless after
<OerHeks> oh, don't know about that
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/02/delete_efivars_linux/
<daftykins> here we are
<OerHeks> but uefi is nasty indeed, i hesitate buying a fresh machine
<daftykins> lots of buggy ones out there, indeedy
<daftykins> actually i updated the BIOS on a clients' Dell desktop the other day ahead of putting some new RAM in... afterwards i could no longer install Windows 7 in EFI mode, only legacy - ho-hum
<daftykins> OerHeks: glad you got there before me, i was going to say "bless you!" to that user ;)
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> i know some dirty turkish .. pardon me
<daftykins> going here for lunch tomorrow: http://www.rocsalt.gg/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Seagull.jpg
<daftykins> hoping that guy doesn't turn up
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> smoked seagull is nice
<OerHeks> .. with lots of sage and garlic
<Bashing-om> daftykins: WB ,, ya been gone so long ! Did I miss the party ? Ballons, whistles and lots of cookies ?
<daftykins> hello there :)
<daftykins> just a good long break really! are you well?
<OerHeks> ... wait, cookies?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Minor interruption in the flow .. Semi-truck took out the lines and power poles, was a bit getting service restored .
<daftykins> ouch! were you without power for long?
<daftykins> and internet too presumably?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Power was on a different grid . The interruption was at the point of presence of our cable provider . Took out the fiber optics also . Ouch !
<daftykins> oh no!
<daftykins> sounds like you might have had a good holiday (albeit forced) from here as well though ;)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-06
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Amazing creatures of habit that we are . We managed to survive - @ 12 hours they had the distributuion system patched . The fix still pending .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's rapid
<daftykins> i was always a bit puzzled by US infrastructure being overhead
<Bashing-om> From the looks of it I had expected several days to get service restored . Was sure relieved - and pleasanly surprised - when the modem lit up !
<daftykins> i'll bet!
<daftykins> when i lived in England, keeping the strange hours i did, i used to be muchly dismayed when the service would often go down at 1am and i'd have a forced early bedtime :)
<Bashing-om> When you can do nothing else, sleep !
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> some issues i don't understand, is ti me?
<OerHeks> *it
<daftykins> users are weird
<OerHeks> autologin, no pass on screensaver, and one is almost free.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> free to break it all!
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey cfhowlett, seen your artpage, nice!
<cfhowlett> :)  thanks.  we actually have more submissions than the main ubuntu art showcase contest
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-07
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-30
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-31
<horsewhip> Anyone got a Kabylake XPS 13"?
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse
<ducasse> all good?
<BluesKaj> yup, and you ?
<ducasse> good, quiet day. really cold out, so staying inside.
<BluesKaj> right
<ducasse> BluesKaj: how's your weather?
<BluesKaj> -11 and clear atm, there?
<BluesKaj> sun's is rising
<ducasse> a little colder, grey and foggy.
<daftykins> horsewhip: i have clients with it
<daftykins> own the skylake model myself
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins .....?
<daftykins> \o skylake (6th gen) and kaby lake (7th gen) intel core CPUs in Dell XPS 13 laptops this is :>
<daftykins> 9350 and 9360 models respectively
<horsewhip> daftykins: How do you find it? I hear reports of the scaling going awry when connected to external displays.
<daftykins> ah well i tell people not to get the QHD models, 1080p is best for battery life
<horsewhip> Work are getting me a QHD one.
<daftykins> mistake :) scaling fun will result
<daftykins> what's your DE of choice?
<horsewhip> IntelliJ / Vim / Sublime
<daftykins> desktop environment was what i was aiming for :) Unity/KDE/etc
<daftykins> i've always heard Unity is good for displays where scaling will be needed
<horsewhip> hahah, opps âÂ I'll stick with whatever it ships with.
<horsewhip> Unity, I beleive.
<daftykins> oh right so it'll be the factory install on the developer edition?
<horsewhip> Yup
<daftykins> i buy from Dell UK, so the Outlet is amazing for me - dell.co.uk/outlet - i got my XPS13 for Â£580 delivered when they were Â£999 new still on the site
<horsewhip> I'm UK based too âÂ thanks for the heads up âÂ I'll take a look.
<horsewhip> Well, I'll take a look when I want to replace my personal laptop.
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> just got a couple of XPS desktops for clients too for Â£600 delivered, i7 6700/16GB RAM/GTX 960 graphics/256GB M.2 SSD/2TB HDD/etc
<daftykins> they really are great at times :>
<horsewhip> Although they've got the XPS 13 - 9360 in stock at the outlet store, so might be sooner rather than later!
<daftykins> yeah it comes and goes :> once you go into one you get whether it's a "certified refurbished" or a "scratch and dent" which have always had really minor damage for me
<horsewhip> hmmmm, with an extra 10% off.
<horsewhip> Shame it ships with windows though.
<horsewhip> (I'm pretty lazy when it comes to faffing with computers)
<daftykins> you could image up the one you're getting from work and just clone it over, then change the hostname and any keys
<horsewhip> Surely all the Dell wotnot they ship installed on their Ubuntu laptops exists in a PPA somewhere...
<daftykins> yeah i think it's passworded though or something awkward
<daftykins> or the key doesn't import - this was ages ago though
<EriC^^> hi all
<pauljw> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<EriC^^> how's it going? :)
<pauljw> everythings good here, you?
<EriC^^> same thanks
<daftykins> \o hi hi
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-01
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all
<EriC^^> hi ducasse o/
<ducasse> morning EriC^^, how's life?
<EriC^^> morning, good thanks, you?
<ducasse> good, just sat down with my tea, relaxing :)
<EriC^^> :)
<ducasse> EriC^^: have you heard anything about usb sticks needing mbr table to boot on uefi?
<EriC^^> ducasse: no
<ducasse> ok, somebody said so in #ubuntu the other day, i was just curious. thought it was weird.
<daftykins> sounds rubbish to me :>
<EriC^^> yup
<daftykins> https://bethesda.net/en/article/52I2HyPCAowWG2ye8MKGU2/fallout-4-free-updates-high-resolution-texture-pack-and-ps4-pro-support
<daftykins> gonna try this next week :>
<BluesKaj> Ht folks
<daftykins> \o
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> i need to finish fallout4 i barely reached the diamond city place
<EriC^^> the graphics on that site look good!
<daftykins> i've barely got through the intro :>
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> more focussed on work for now, but i'll give it a look :>
<daftykins> that will probably make my PC struggle
<daftykins> weeeell it looks like this PC isn't showing up today unless i get called in the next 5 mins
<EriC^^> i'm thinking of making a website/service
<EriC^^> it's a website that gathers all the youtube comments and posts them from oldest to newest
<EriC^^> i was thinking like youtubecomments.com , so someone would add to youtube.com/watch=.... and make it youtubecomments.com/watch=...
<EriC^^> not sure how legal it would be though, the youtube terms of service are very strict about using "the service" for anything but lots of sites offer to download video's mp3 and stuff like that .. i dont know
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> could be a way to make Google quite grumpy :> maybe you need to read through the API request info or something?
<EriC^^> they have an api for getting comments, but it's restricted to 40 i think
<EriC^^> i found a script written in python that gets all the comments without the api, like 2000 comments in some seconds, and the size is pretty small
<EriC^^> but it needs to also get the "likes" below the comments so i'd have to add that myself somehow
<EriC^^> i'll probably /join #python and nag there
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> the legality of the matter is still there though
<daftykins> XD
<EriC^^> wish i had a friend that was a lawyer
<EriC^^> the interesting thing is that there's no other site right now that does that
<EriC^^> so it's either illegal or i dunno, i feel like it would be kind of useful
<daftykins> must be because youtube comments are the sewer of the internet :D
<EriC^^> lots of people like to see the old comments and have everything in one place
<EriC^^> lol true
<EriC^^> i tried it on some videos, the first 10 or so are all "FIRST!!!" "OMG I CANT BELIEVE IT IM FIRST!" etc
<EriC^^> some people like to see their old comments on videos, so probably add a "username" search filter or something
<EriC^^> i'm getting kind of low on the cash, so i'm kind of brainstorming ideas for websites
<EriC^^> i was thinking to put a pop under ad, it's like $5 / 1000 views for some countries, not bad
<EriC^^> another idea is kind of illegal
<EriC^^> i noticed this site called movienight.ws he has movies up for online watching, and lots of ads on the site
<daftykins> that's a bad EriC^^, do nice things ;)
<daftykins> ah yeah i think i heard that's another one of those torrent wrappers
<EriC^^> nope, he uses this site called filepup.net to upload his videos
<EriC^^> the kicker is that filepup.net lets you upload anything anonymously, but they put their own ad before playing the video
<EriC^^> so basically he has all these movies hosted there, he puts his ads on his site, and filepup adds their ads before the movie
<EriC^^> so technically he isn't hosting a single illegal movie on his site, just links to filepup.net
<EriC^^> it's kind of ingenious
<EriC^^> i think legally he can't be liable for anything, right?
<daftykins> hmm probably depends on the country, he's profiting from copyright violation, so i'm sure there's an angle there
<EriC^^> this is how much money he might be making http://www.worthofweb.com/website-value/movienight.ws/
<EriC^^> 67,000visits/day and he has like 3-4 ads per movie that pop under
<EriC^^> his ads are for sites like alibaba and other companies i think they dont care really
<daftykins> probably done through an intermediary so they don't even know
<EriC^^> some is even malware, i visited the site from my phone and it tried to convince me "your phone <make and model here> has sa virus! please download this app to clean it immediately"
<daftykins> ah yeah common thing
<EriC^^> the really funny part is that since he doesn't host on his site, somebody could potentially make another site better made and with more videos and use his filepup anonymous uploads as his own videos
<EriC^^> lol :>
<EriC^^> next day the russian mafia is at your door
<EriC^^> :P
<EriC^^> there is a shop in a city nearby, where they have the latest latest movies (even before it hits the cinemas here) and every movie is for $1-$2
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> DVD or bluray?
<EriC^^> dvd
<EriC^^> it's a tiny shop with stacks of dvds all around and in the middle and everywhere, they have old movies too, almost every movie
<EriC^^> anyways its a bad idea i guess
<EriC^^> if it wasn't illegal it would be kind of nice, buy movies from there, upload them to filepup, make money
<EriC^^> and people get to watch movies for free too (wouldn't use that guys filepup files though just the ones i get)
<daftykins> ooh The Arrival is finally out, i missed that in the cinema
<EriC^^> i recently watched a monster calls
<EriC^^> it was pretty good
<EriC^^> i wonder how illegal it is though, copyright violation
<EriC^^> and the fact that i'm a citizen of the usa
<daftykins> you are :o
<EriC^^> yeah i was born there
<EriC^^> my dad lives there
<EriC^^> my parents are lebanese both of them though
<EriC^^> if i made a site about ubuntu and stuff like that
<daftykins> posts on how to fix the common #ubuntu queries :>
<EriC^^> like maybe put some tutorials, and some useful scripts i've written and stuff like that, it would probably get a 4 views/ month
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> i wish people used ubuntu instead of windows i'd probably do that for sure
 * daftykins pats Windows
<daftykins> btw i've found that having my mum reply to people on facebook suggesting i look at their IT problems is really introducing me to new people and getting me work o0
<daftykins> you need a social networking hooked mother with plenty of free time :D
<EriC^^> haha
<daftykins> ah modern connections are ace, 5.5MB/sec down i'm getting, 26 mins for 9GB
<daftykins> brb
<EriC^^> cool, ok
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<EriC^^> hi pauljw :)
<pauljw> hey EriC^^
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<daftykins> pauljw: wb \o
<pauljw> hey daftykins o/
<baizon> livestream of the gitlab restoration... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0hPGerSd4
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<EriC^^> about to watch the arrival
<daftykins> :)
<EriC^^> just noticed it in the list, seems cool :)
<daftykins> maybe i should do that tonight too
<EriC^^> imdb is 8.3
<EriC^^> haven't had one of those in a while
<EriC^^> heh :D
<EriC^^> yeah you should, pop a beer and watch it
<daftykins> yep before i have to move out so don't have my TV etc
<EriC^^> too bad the beer is in the closet warm here
<EriC^^> *youtubes how to chill beer instantly*
<EriC^^> you're moving?
<daftykins> i have to love elsewhere once the insurance work starts on my bathroom
<daftykins> lol love, *live
<EriC^^> oh ok
<EriC^^> so just temporarily
<daftykins> waiting on replies from my insurer right now, it's slow going
<daftykins> yeah maybe 2 or 3 weeks, they have to put me in a hotel!
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> that'll be fun
<EriC^^> and interesting
<daftykins> right now i have to walk to my clients house to shower
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> oh man i cant imagine the videos im about to watch
<EriC^^> i feel like one of them will be "reverse the polarity of your microwave and put the beer" 30secs to chill
<EriC^^> xD
<EriC^^> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ncuv3gewI
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> ever heard of that one?
<daftykins> nope!
<daftykins> but then having ice on hand kind of makes the approach moot to begin
<EriC^^> beer with ice?
<EriC^^> is that an option?
<daftykins> i was thinking if you had ice in a freezer you'd throw the drink in there :>
<daftykins> that's what i'd do when i bought beer, throw one in the freezer for a bit... just don't forget otherwise it explodes!
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> i think i'll do that, i dont think i even have more than 2 cubes of ice or so anyways
<EriC^^> i think it works, i put 4 cubes and some salt and water
<EriC^^> and the bottle is pretty cold to the touch, not sure about the inside, i slapped it in the freezer, will check in on it in abit
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> FOR SCIENCE!
<EriC^^> haha
<ducasse> EriC^^: stir the water, and you speed up the heat exchange :)
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> the movie is kind of freezing at times
<EriC^^> (pardon the pun)
<daftykins> it's from a naughty source!
<EriC^^> lol it's my connection i bet
<EriC^^> damn isp *shakes fist*
<EriC^^> crap
<EriC^^> keeps buffering at times
<EriC^^> did you watch a monster calls? it's a pretty good movie
<daftykins> nah not heard of that one
<daftykins> i don't even seem to watch what i do get
<EriC^^> it was pretty good, it's about a kid whose mom is dying
<EriC^^> and he can't really come to terms with it and he starts imagining this monster and learns stuff from him and in the end he has to come to terms with a sort of ugly fact
<EriC^^> other than his mom's death, it's a pretty good story and the ending was pretty good
<daftykins> hrmm
<EriC^^> plus i loved how realistic it was and depicts really the nature of how life/human beings are far from black and white kind of thing
<EriC^^> it's on the movienight.ws as well
<EriC^^> torrenting the arrival :D
<EriC^^> the connection sucks too, it's going to take forever
<EriC^^> ducasse: how was your day today?
<daftykins> real shame i missed it when it was in the local cinema
<daftykins> i was all prepared, then when i was finally free to go... they'd stopped showing it already!
<EriC^^> it sucks when that happens
<ducasse> EriC^^: exceptionally quiet, rebuilt a vps and that's about it :) you?
<EriC^^> some theaters who dont sell that much keep big movies longer
<daftykins> ducasse: \o
<daftykins> mmm must be food o'clock, heading for half 8
<EriC^^> ducasse: cool, i *tried* to get a vps they asked for a id/passport so no go
<ducasse> i got a giftcard for the local cinema for my bday, need to keep an eye out for something to watch-
<daftykins> O_O which provider was that?
<ducasse> EriC^^: odd, where was that?
<ducasse> daftykins: o/
<EriC^^> i'm going to go to a bank and make a bank account with a debit card soon so i can buy all my hearts desire of online goodies
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> ooh you remind me i should check my digitalocean setup
<EriC^^> ducasse: vpsserver.com i think, i wanted to try the 14 day free trial, i came across them by searching vps that take bitcoin
<ducasse> i use digitalocean, very happy with them. only paypal or card, though.
<EriC^^> i tried them a while ago they were decent
<daftykins> yeah works well for me though
<EriC^^> i didnt use the account though as my dad had paid for it from his paypal and i didnt want him liable in case the server gets hax0red or something
<daftykins> they even immediately fixed it for me when i asked to have VAT removed, amazing
<EriC^^> they were decent though, free snapshots of the vm's and stuff
<EriC^^> i forget, by default they give a static ip?
<ducasse> yes.
<EriC^^> cool
<ducasse> plus ipv6 prefix
<EriC^^> yeah the support was good too
<daftykins> got a couple o' websites and a VPN endpoint on my one DO VPS, up in London
<daftykins> cheap rate for the site hosting of a small co. pays for the VPS and a bit of profit :)
<daftykins> in fact hey EriC^^ make another account on my referral link and we'll get money ;D
<EriC^^> what's the link?
<daftykins> "Everyone you refer gets $10 in credit. Once theyâve spent $25 with us, you'll get $25. There is no limit to the amount of credit you can earn through referrals."
<daftykins> https://m.do.co/c/7597cb92ec2a
<ducasse> EriC^^: you'll need paypal or credit card to continue using it, though
<EriC^^> yeah ducasse i was just in that moment of "could it be.. *-*"
<EriC^^> when i do get a debit card i will use it though ;)
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> are you still not smoking ducasse ?
<ducasse> but you can play with it for two months, and then get a referral from me for another two months :)
<ducasse> EriC^^: still only 3-4 a day, only 2 yesterday. slow progress.
<EriC^^> i think you can only use a code once :(
<EriC^^> cool
<daftykins> yeah you'd have to make a second account
<ducasse> yep.
<daftykins> but you could fire up the second and transfer the data between the two XD
<EriC^^> i quit like 2 years ago for maybe a year straight
<EriC^^> daftykins: i like the way you think
<EriC^^> lol xD
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> i kind of convinced myself that smoking is kind of stupid if you think about it, all you're doing is inhaling SMOKE you know? like freaking smoke that could come out of a car's exhaust inside your own body
<EriC^^> like, really it doesn't make any sense when you think of it as a "is this really sane?" kind of approach
<EriC^^> after a year i was like fuck it, this is some vegan crap almost and just said life's too short i'm going to inhale smoke whatever
<EriC^^> i remember i was thinking that smoking to begin with was kind of dumb, like when you first learn to smoke it feels unnatural and weird
<EriC^^> lol xD
<EriC^^> it does though, after i quit for like 4months or something, i put a cigarette in my mouth one day and it felt like an alien object or something
<daftykins> makes you wonder how folks discovering tobacco decided to try it...
<EriC^^> if you have a real paradigm shift of some sort like that, into the healthy lifestyle stuff you could quit cold turkey and never put it in your mouth again
<EriC^^> yeah it is, it really is odd
<EriC^^> i'm like "it's fun though, it tastes nice with drinks and stuff, whatever i'll just smoke"
<EriC^^> really you're literally inhaling toxins and chemicals and really nasty stuff into your lungs
<EriC^^> and the only calming effect it actually has is that you're forced to breath, you could just "take a 5min breather" and pretend to breath steadily and it would calm you better really
<EriC^^> smoking if anything aggrevates shit, how do you think your body feels? you're stressed out, and you're shoving smoke down it
<EriC^^> it's like wtf is going on
<ducasse> daftykins: also, what about those coffee beans eaten by those small, furry creatures? "yeah, we'll dig these out of animal poo, grind them, boil and drink it!"
<Bashing-om> Interesting what thoughts pop in the mind when you join a channel in the middle of the converstations :)
<EriC^^> lol
<BluesKaj> leave me out ..I don't kike coffee that much
<BluesKaj> like even
<EriC^^> time to check on that beer in the freezer!
<Bashing-om> There are several things required for my well being ... I do run on caffine and nicotine ! Without them 'buntu does not work .
<EriC^^> success!
<EriC^^> it almost worked too well, the beer was a little frozen at the top, and the water in the cup was almost fully iced
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: That is a buzz in store :)
<BluesKaj> still use caffeine but in reasonable amounts, quit nicotine many yrs ago and kubuntu still works :-)
<ducasse> i need them in the morning to wake up, or i get totally antisocial and want to burn things.
<Bashing-om> grumpy grumpy grumpy is me ... till
<EriC^^> i wonder wy my connection sucks so bad tonight
<EriC^^> wow it is really slow tonight
<EriC^^> i wonder if i reset my android phone maybe it's a tethering issue
<EriC^^> brb
<ducasse> EriC^^: the ip packets slow down in rain due to needing their tiny umbrellas.
<daftykins> ducasse: haha i'm not familiar with said beans!
<ducasse> daftykins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak
<EriC^^> nope, still sucks
<daftykins> O_O
<ducasse> daftykins: most expensive coffee in the world.
<ducasse> not something i would touch myself, though. i'm sure the sellers laugh all the way to the bank.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> indeedy
<ducasse> if anyone is interested, new humble book bundle: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/hacks-book-bundle
<OerHeks> ducasse, awesome :-D
<ducasse> OerHeks: there's usually something interesting in them :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: That one ^ is book marked from way back ,, good to keep in mind :)
<OerHeks> but i want them in paperback, looks nice in my bookshelve
<ducasse> Bashing-om: this bundle is only valid for two weeks
<ducasse> agree about paper, though, that would be awesome
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yepper ; :( my old mark reletes " This Bundle is Over! " .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: there's a new one each month, methinks.
<Bashing-om> Uh Huh .. but as above . me wants on paper - nice for before retiring for the naunce light reading :)
<ducasse> sleepytime here, have fun!
<daftykins> g'night!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: g'night! as daftykins advises :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-02
<lotuspsychje> good morning guys
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> you guys survived the winter yes?
<pauljw> eh, we're not having one this year.  but we're surviving.
<Bashing-om> what Winter ?
<Bashing-om> Location: Heber Springs, AR ~ Temp: 52Â°F (11Â°C) ~ Cond: Overcast ~ Humid: 50% ~ Wind: 0 mph (0 km/h) ~ Time: 20:15
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> 13 degrees also here
<pauljw> north and east seem to be having some winter, but we in mid-west are just a bit too mild for my taste.  it was about 55F here today in S. Indiana.
<lotuspsychje> something weird going on with seasons worldwide
<pauljw> just cycles man...
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.59.62 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<Bashing-om> We still got 60+ days before we can let the breath out .. Winter can bite real quick .
<pauljw> i read somewhere that the tectonic plate shift that caused the tsunami that took out the reactors in japan caused the earth to shift several degs on it's axis.  if that's true, i would think that would have a huge effect on the jetstream paths across the earths surface.
<lotuspsychje> doesnt make sense i didnt see snow like for years now
<lotuspsychje> it has been proved already that temperatures are climbing up and ice is melting
<Bashing-om> Yeah, I would think .. this ole planet takes a beating, and keeps on spinning . Bit there are conseqiences ,
<lotuspsychje> some countrys cant stay/live because of the heat/dry
<Bashing-om> The big brain guys have been warning us this was going to happen . The fix is not so easy to implement :(
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: dont think so neither
<Bashing-om> even birds are smart enough not to foul their nest !  What are our grand kids going to deal with ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: we have seen nothing yet mate
<Bashing-om> I am glad I chose to live where I am . Long range forcast a few years back was that this area would become arid .. fat chance now !
<pauljw> are you saying the big brain guys were wrong?
<lotuspsychje> au contraire
<lotuspsychje> alot of stuff came out, the forespelled it
<Bashing-om> That arid condition was in the very early stages of their calculations . Warm Winters and wet I can handle much better . Give the trees a drink of water !
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> Back in the 90's we had a 7 year drought .. lot of trees did not make it through ( me I had to change vocation ) . Then the weather patterns did change .
<pauljw> i remember back when they were scaring us with the coming ice age, that didn't pan out, so then it was global warming, that didn't pan out, so now it's climate change.  that works because, guess what, the climate has been changing since the planet was created.  it's been much warmer and much colder and will be again.  cycles...
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: ok i follow you mate, but everyone will agree how humans live now, it will influence our future and destroy things
<lotuspsychje> there's nature cycles and human influences
<Bashing-om> Mercuty poisoning from the garbage we dump in our oceans !
<lotuspsychje> plastic soup yeah
<pauljw> well guys, time to sleep, let me know how you fix all the worlds problems.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> nite nite mate
<Bashing-om> nite nite .
<Bashing-om> I'm out of here too .\
<n4n0`> yar yar
<n4n0`> and a bottle of rum
<ducasse> morning all
<EriC^^> morning ducasse o/
<ducasse> what's up, EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> not much, just waking up
<EriC^^> you?
<ducasse> me too. really tired, hardly slept :-/
<EriC^^> it's so cold these days
<ducasse> here it's actually above zero now, so the snow is melting.
<EriC^^> nice
<ducasse> no intention of going out today, neither has the cat it seems :) raining, gray and generally unpleasant.
<ducasse> but at least it's not below freezing :)
<EriC^^> damn
<EriC^^> yeah at least that
<EriC^^> the weather is pretty good today here
<EriC^^> it's sunny, it's been raining for the most part recently, it's been a cold year and full of rain
<ducasse> it hasn't really been as cold as it usually gets here, except for a few days. lots of rain, though.
<EriC^^> i have a huge urge to do magic tricks for some one
<EriC^^> over the past 2 years or so i learned some card tricks cause i was curious, then i did them for my grandma, and i kept learning more of them, and she kind of developed a forgetfulness
<ducasse> just walk out on the street and do them for strangers :)
<EriC^^> and i kept learning more and more tricks and i keep doing them to her, she's not that surprised anymore though
<EriC^^> i dont think know how well people would accept that kind of stuff here, nobody really does that here
<EriC^^> i've never been approached by someone and said can i show you a trick? i think they'd be like wtf O.o
<ducasse> probably :)
<EriC^^> i could do them for friends i guess, i've kind of kept it for myself and my grandma haha
<EriC^^> it's kind of a coping i think
<EriC^^> like yeah she forgets a lot but i can do the same trick 40 times and she still goes wow O.O
<EriC^^> i've gotten pretty incredible at the sleight of hand too xD
<EriC^^> i guess i'll just leave it at that, i do wonder how others would react though
<ducasse> my grandmother got a stroke, which made her a bit 'weird'. then she got another one, and that left her in a coma. appreciate them while you have them.
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> sorry about your grandma
<ducasse> ok, the cat is now trying to get _under_ the laptop...
<EriC^^> lol
<ducasse> discovered why - there was a bag of cat treats hidden underneath :)
<EriC^^> ah :)
<ducasse> hehe, one of my neighbors insisted he had seen a lynx behind the house the other day. "yeeees, probably not..." :)
<EriC^^> :D
<ducasse> "i suspect others might have noticed that."
<EriC^^> lol
<ducasse> it would be cool to see one, though. beautiful animals.
<EriC^^> yeah
<ducasse> have you watched those 'mindfreak' shows, if you're into magic?
<EriC^^> not much
<EriC^^> that guy uses a lot of camera tricks and stuff like that
<EriC^^> i started with a trick that were a little kind of 'mathematical' i guess in nature, which were kind of cool
<ducasse> aha, i suspected as much. he also has a really abrasive personality, i can't stand him.
<EriC^^> i appreciated that, then later i learned stuff that required sleight of hand and techniques and stuff like that
<EriC^^> it's really very much like how we solve linux problems, there's techniques and ways you can do something
<EriC^^> like you want to control a card to the top, you can use various methods to do that, and you want then do make it appear as if something, you can do that and this do achieve that effect, etc
<EriC^^> you can come up with your own tricks and when you know the techniques you can tell what another magician is doing
<EriC^^> the first trick i learned was i think a trick, you can try yourself it's a mathematical trick, you choose 3 cards, then make a pile of cards, 10 15 15 9 next to eachother, then place a card over pile 10, cut from 15 over 10, place on the 2nd pile, cut from 15 onto that, and same for 3rd pile
<EriC^^> then you put the 9 cards over the 3rd column over 2nd over 1st, you count 4 cards from the top of the deck to the bottom and it's done
<EriC^^> now you open one card face up and the other face down, and the spectator is supposed to say stop when he sees one of his cards, first round nothing shows up, you take the cards that were dealt face down and do the same, one face up one face down
<EriC^^> in the end there will be only 3 cards left after several rounds, and they'll be his 3 cards
<ducasse> sorry, but i've slept way too little to follow that :)
<EriC^^> lol no problem
<ducasse> do a lot of card tricks involve math?
<ducasse> or just sleight of hand?
<EriC^^> not really
<EriC^^> yeah most involve sleight of hand
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ducasse> \o
<lordievader> Hey ducasse, how are you?
<ducasse> sleep-deprived :) i have a cunning plan of fixing that by sleeping an hour or two on the couch, though. :) you?
<lordievader> Done with sleep, having coffee ;)
<ducasse> i tried tea, but it didn't do the job :)
<lordievader> Tea has less caffeine ;)
<ducasse> i know, but i hate coffee ;)
<lordievader> Too bad :P
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: lol: http://www.benefitsofkayaking.com/fishing-kayak-how-to-speed-up-your-new-ebike-ve.html?ytid=ElTS-BVY3Vs&lvl=5&qs=Fishing+Kayak
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: now im used to drive my bike, 25km/h gets a lil slow :p
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<daftykins> \o
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
<pauljw> hey EriC^^ , how's it going? :)
<EriC^^> fine thanks, you?
<pauljw> all good here, thx.
<daftykins> \o
<Bashing-om> And ,, back ,... Let's see what we can do to make of it a better day in our neighborhood :)
<daftykins> :D wb!
<Bashing-om> I hit the deck running !
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> big xenial update this morning
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.62.65 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Lemme ckeck again . when I fired up here this AM was not in my mirror yet .
<lotuspsychje> .83 should be out
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: " 26 packages can be upgraded." . since this AM .
<lotuspsychje> : )
<Bashing-om> OK all done .. less the reboot to come up on the -62 kernel :)
<lotuspsychje> quicker then a win machine
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: appstream however continues to be held . I wait some more and see if it is "phased" in .
<lotuspsychje> got issues with it?
<lotuspsychje> !info appstream
<ubot5> appstream (source: appstream): Software component index. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.4-1ubuntu2 (xenial), package size 30 kB, installed size 176 kB
<Bashing-om> appstream/xenial-backports 0.10.6-1~ubuntu16.04.1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.10.1-1~ubuntu16.04.1]
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: nope .. just curious to see if/when it work out ,,if I get impatient will 'full-upgrade' . I expect will pull it in .
<lotuspsychje> kk
<Bashing-om> !info appstrean xenial-updates
<ubot5> 'xenial-updates' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xenial-proposed, yakkety, yakkety-backports, yakkety-proposed, zesty, zesty-bac
<Bashing-om> !info appstrean xenial-backports
<ubot5> Package appstrean does not exist in xenial-backports
<Bashing-om> !info appstrean xenial-proposed
<ubot5> Package appstrean does not exist in xenial-proposed
<Bashing-om> well !!
<Bashing-om> "ii  appstream      0.10.1-1~ubu amd64 " !
<lotuspsychje> aha
<lotuspsychje> would be cool to have a bot that shows features of a new package :p
<lotuspsychje> or bugfixes
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.62.65 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<lotuspsychje> need some to time to refresh
<Bashing-om> no do no more - this session . laters
<lotuspsychje> bbl city walk :p
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/dirt-rally-linux-feral-interactive
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: \o :)
<lotuspsychje> howdy ducasse we finally meet normally :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: i've only been on irc now and then lately, needed a break :)
<lotuspsychje> oh sure, everyone needs a break at any point
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje, ducasse
<BluesKaj> kernel upgrade reboot  was required
<lotuspsychje> yep .83
<lotuspsychje> got big one this morning
<lotuspsychje> we had some arguments in main this morning, wether servers needed reboots or not
<BluesKaj> 4.8.0-37-generic on 16.10
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> bbl coffee
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<BluesKaj> wb lordievader
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<pauljw> everyone
<lordievader> Thanks BluesKaj
<lordievader> Anyone here with experience regarding Western Digital RMA's?
<lordievader> Got a dying drive, checked the warrenty today, still has warrenty ;)
<ducasse> lordievader: i've had no problems with it, but that probably depends on where you are - i'm in norway.
<lordievader> Holland here, guess I'll see how far I get with it next week.
<ducasse> when i've returned disks it has usually been because they failed while under the normal guarantees given by law, so i've gotten replacements from where i bought them. once or twice was under wd warranty, and that just worked.
<lordievader> This disk has many bad sectors.
<lordievader> 1617 reallocated with 347 pending.
<ducasse> how old is it?
<lordievader> Bought in 2015 or so. Bought two of the same model, the other has no issues what so ever.
<ducasse> 2015, might still be covered by law or vendor - don't know how that is in holland.
<lordievader> WD has a warrenty checker, and through their website you can do RMA too. Might check the place where I bought it, else I'd go directly to WD.
<ducasse> usually faster and less trouble to go through the place you bought it, i've used mine for so long they usually don't even ask me to send them the failed one anymore :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-04
<Bashing-om> Done and outta here ; gnite all .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon
<lotuspsychje> free weekend for you?
<baizon> yep :)
<baizon> relaxing :)
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> i had whole week off, now working weekend
<lotuspsychje> https://www.linuxforum.com/threads/linux-malware-detect-lmd-overview.3957/
<lotuspsychje> would be nice to have a malware scanner in repos
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/important-kernel-updates-patch-7-vulnerabilities-in-all-supported-ubuntu-oses-512591.shtml
<baizon> already made the upgrade :)
<lotuspsychje> same here
<lotuspsychje> !release
<ubot5> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months (non-LTS) or 5 years (LTS). More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<ducasse> good morning all
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse morning mate
<lotuspsychje> 16.04.2 on 9feb so it seems
<lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-16.04.2-Delayed-2
<lotuspsychje> hi BobbyJr
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<BobbyJr> Greetings
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks long time no see mate
<lotuspsychje> you allright?
<OerHeks> Yes, i am fine, no worries
<lotuspsychje> great :p
<OerHeks> calculating what 530 sievert/hr means
<lotuspsychje> doesnt ring a bell, where do you get that
<OerHeks> http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/database/?pageid=event_desc&edis_id=ED-20170203-57005-JPN
<lotuspsychje> looks like a radiation value
<BobbyJr> It is, its a unit of measurement for the level of ionizing radiation
 * lotuspsychje holds his breath oO
<lotuspsychje> they should all close plants like that worldwide
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one guys
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-05
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<ducasse> wb Bashing-om :)
<lordievader> o/
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Thankeee ... took a pause for the cause .. and now about caught up .
<ducasse> \o lordievader, too :)
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> good, if i can just catch up on my email. been ignoring it for a few days, so now the backlog is quite threatening :)
<ducasse> how about you? i assume Bashing-om is good?
<lordievader> Bit tired. Taking the train back home from fosdem
<ducasse> ah, how was it?
<lordievader> It was fun :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: OH - great for me .. All in my world is percolating right on along :)
<ducasse> lordievader: these things usually are :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: here too, been a busy weekend though. now i've sat down with some tea to catch up on stuff.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: also want to fix a couple of things i'm not happy with in my i3 config, can't quite stop fiddling with it :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh Huh .. 'bout done with my wake-up-get-started coffee . Things now straightened out and priorities set for the time being :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Me still with xfce as the prefered environment . Installed 17.04 though .. and gnome3 looks interesting .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: still not moved to zesty, although i've grabbed a few packages from it. never did like gnome3, but i might not have given it a fighting chance...
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well .. My intro to 'buntu as real use case was (k)ubuntu 9.04 . with 10.04 I went to ubuntu is the distro ( too much eye candy for my taste ) with 12.04 and unity .. did not fit my use cases - or my mind set .. and I found xfce4 .. been xfce ever since .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i used xfce for a looong time, but found a tiling wm is just so much nicer after testing it on my laptop. originally just wanted it to save screen space on a small screen, but i3 is really fast and nice to use.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Not seen i3, but all I hear and read about it is good . may prpmpt my curiosity to have a good look at it .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: it takes a little getting used to, but once you learn the basic keybindings and get it set up to your liking it's excellent. especially nice is that you can do things via ipc that most other wms just can't do.
<Bashing-om> Well .. my needs are generally very simple ; terminal does most of what I desire and a GUI just is no longer that important . What I do look for in that GUI is simplicity to configure .
<ducasse> most of the stuff i use runs in terminals too, except the browser and a couple of other things. i3 is easy to configure imo, but does require editing the config file. there's no pointy clicky thing.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Right up my alley .. may just have to now fire it up and give it a test run :)
<ducasse> have fun :) very easy to get going on ubuntu. default keybining for a new terminal is mod+enter, mod+d for dmenu. there's a map of bindings in the userguide - http://i3wm.org/docs/userguide.html#_default_keybindings
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Support for multi work spaces ? I generally run 3 - sometimes 2 alternate displays .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yes, and the good thing about it is that it handles it properly, unlike the various desktop envs. i have 3 screens myself, and workspaces are handled independently.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: You just may hav a convert on your hands !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: :) the only other wm i found that handles this the way i want is enlightenment, and that had some major issues of its own.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: be careful, though, you can spend eternity mucking about with the i3 config :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah ! A quck look through the guide .. never ending configs . But seems i3 is a programmer's dream terminal come true .
<ducasse> it gives you a very high level of control over your graphical interface if you're willing to spend the time. unfortunately it has attracted a lot of idiots through /r/unixporn who don't know the first thing about linux, but install arch and i3 so their friends will think they look like 1337 h4x0r.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: okidoke, sleepytime i think. you have fun, i'll be back in the morrow :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Sleep well .. come back all bushy tailed :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
 * Bashing-om present still
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> 25mb bionic updates
<Bashing-om> Any noteworthy ?
<lotuspsychje> small stuff and ubuntu base things
<lotuspsychje> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 onwards use Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<Bashing-om> need to change that ^ as 18.04 will not do wayland by default :)
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> asked dax, but not changed yet
<Bashing-om> :)
<lotuspsychje> !find vpnc
<ubot5> Found: kvpnc, kvpnc-dbg, network-manager-vpnc, network-manager-vpnc-gnome, vpnc, vpnc-scripts, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 278 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=vpnc&searchon=names&suite=artful&section=all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/lollypop-music-player-gets-responsive-design
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-kernel-4-15-officially-released-includes-patches-for-meltdown-and-spectre-519579.shtml
<Bashing-om> And that's all folks \o
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader - how are you today?
<lordievader> Doing good here. How are you, ducasse ?
<ducasse> all good, thanks just having a quiet morning.
<lotuspsychje> bbl work have a nice day
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<oerheks> hey there BluesKaj ;-)
<BluesKaj> Hwy oerheks
<BluesKaj> :-)
<jink> Hullo.
<pauljw> hi everyone
<oerheks> :-)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<ducasse> \
<ducasse> \o oerheks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<oerheks> hi lotus :-)
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<lotuspsychje> whats new
<lotuspsychje> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 uses Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Unusual time for a lotus appearance :P
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: this is after work irc :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Anytime is a good time to irc, huh ?
<lotuspsychje> to see you guys yeah
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<pauljw> lotuspsychje, how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> fije mate and you?
<lotuspsychje> fine
<pauljw> same... :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-30
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here lordievader and you?
<lordievader> Doing ok, spitting through puppet emails.
<lotuspsychje> bionic updates & news read here
<lotuspsychje> was playing with supybot last night
<lordievader> Supybot? Why?
<lordievader> Ubuntu channels have a rather strict bot poilicy don't they?
<jink> Goedemorgen, kinders.
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> morning lordievader - all good here, thanks. how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here ð
<ducasse> any plans for the day? :)
<lordievader> Work, work and work :P
<lordievader> You?
<ducasse> have a hospital appointment a bit later, other than that i'm just going to do some system maintenance etc here at home
<lordievader> Ah, good luck ð
<ducasse> thanks
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw how are you today
<pauljw> doing fine, you?
<lotuspsychje> great finished work and irc chill now :p
<pauljw> :D
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> pesky old kit playing up :) got a single memory error on a setup i was trying to sell on for cheap, today
<lotuspsychje> cool
<daftykins> naw it's a bad thing! faulty module
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: im gonna get a w10 box with starting up probs
<daftykins> oh my
<daftykins> i wonder if it'll be like my friends wifes one, where the upgrade to the latest build failed spectacularly
<lotuspsychje> not sure what happened, customer said blue screen uefi stuff
<daftykins> :) memtest and SMART disk check #1 then :>
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: they got pics all over, ill start with backup :p
<daftykins> well if you don't look at the SMART data first, copying off could endanger it all!
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> true
<daftykins> i really do love my local nextcloud setup now, LAN transfer speeds when home for keeping some data synced up, then still available when out and about across the island
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: what kind of stuff you having on it?
<daftykins> pics i take and share on IRC, some client notes... that sort of thing
<daftykins> files i want to share
<lotuspsychje> aha movable files
<daftykins> stopped using dropbox and moved to this instead
<lotuspsychje> !find nextcloud
<ubot5> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 272 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=nextcloud&searchon=names&suite=artful&section=all
<nacc> it's a snap
<nacc> iirc
<daftykins> you don't get it from repos ideally
<nacc> debian stopped package all that stuff
<daftykins> just get a web server & db server on, then unzip from their site into the root and configure the database :)
<nacc> also an option
<lotuspsychje> nacc: yep :p nextcloud-client    2.3.3+gitab40efe snap
<nacc> although i imagine upgrades are tricky, daftykins ?
<daftykins> no, single click in the web control panel with a properly configured host
<daftykins> zero need for a snap
<nacc> nextcloud             12.0.4snap2               nextcloud            -        Nextcloud Server - A safe home for all your data
<nacc> lotuspsychje: --^
<lotuspsychje> cool
<daftykins> for the server side anyway, didn't think of the client portion on Linux :)
<nacc> daftykins: ah interesting
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey hey :) ... I be back see what a Tuesday brings .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nacc: it's kinda like wordpress in that way, although a package existed it was always considered a mistake by anyone with experience of it :>
<daftykins> (a mistake to use the package)
<nacc> for sure
 * nacc had to update that package for 16.04
<daftykins> oh dear :D
<daftykins> probably better to be removed
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. From Ubuntu 17.10 and higher you can choose the wayland session at gdm login on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<lotuspsychje> how you guys like this?
<nacc> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 uses Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<nacc> lotuspsychje: seems reasoable
<lotuspsychje> nacc: its a bit weird to say artful does defualt and bionic not right?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: Maybe add a sentence after your second one. "Ubuntu 17.10 uses Wayland by default on systems that support it."
<pauljw> It's going to be included with bionic, just not the default, correct?
<lotuspsychje> might get too long factoid, and if artful gets eol we wont need that anymore?
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: yeah wayland will be installed, choosable
<pauljw> :)
<nacc> pauljw: correct (recet change)
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, you're right
<lotuspsychje> nacc: ok lemme request it
<lotuspsychje> http://www.itprotoday.com/network-security/linux-monitoring-tool-detects-meltdown-attacks
<BluesKaj> just woke up from a nap,  :-) wayland is probly non default on Bionic due to the conservative nature of LTS OSs
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah i suggested new trigger
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, right
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. From Ubuntu 17.10 and higher you can choose the wayland session at gdm login on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<lotuspsychje> better?
<BluesKaj> nicely done lotuspsychje, yes :-)
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<BluesKaj> is gdm still default on ubuntu ?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: from 17.10 ubuntu-desktop it is
<lotuspsychje> or should it be gdm3
<BluesKaj> Kubuntu defaults to sddm, so the other flavors use gdm too?
<lotuspsychje> didnt test other flavors 17.10 and higher myself
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: you can choose wayland on sddm?
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<oerheks> sorry nacc, i could not hold myself in
<nacc> oerheks: :)
<nacc> sometimes people are just ...
<oerheks> "i heard .."
<nacc> and if you ask someone for details and they say "no"
<nacc> i mentaly put them in /ignore
<oerheks> but .. sometimes they are surprisingly neat and say thank you afterwards
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> we never know who we are dealing with
<nacc> oerheks: yeah
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-31
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> big bionic update
 * lotuspsychje doesnt like ping timeout
<lotuspsychje> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 uses Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<lotuspsychje> bah..
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje
<ducasse> all well?
<lotuspsychje> yeah and you mate
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic artful
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.32.34 (artful), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<ducasse> i'm fine, thanks - quiet morning here.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> im about to breakfast and work
<lotuspsychje> in 2 weeks, 1 week holiday :p
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader - good morning to you, all well? :)
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> Doing allright. You?
<ducasse> fine here, thanks. not doing much yet, about to upgrade my mikrotik gear to the latest routeros.
<lordievader> Have fun with that ð
<ducasse> hehe, it's usually a painless thing :)
<lordievader> Usually ð
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<LtWorf> hi
<BluesKaj> hi LtWorf
<jimb_> Good day y'all.
<BluesKaj> hey jimb_
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader. fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<BluesKaj> right :-)
<nacc_> ugh, DO droplet, with only xenial-security enabled and then all 3rd party stuff
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> DO's lovely though :D
 * TJ- has steam coming out of his ears
<nacc> something is fubar
<nacc> dunno what :)
<TJ-> I do!!
 * nacc is busy doing the PHP7.2 migration
<TJ-> But I'm too polite to day
<nacc> heh
<TJ-> I'm not sure who's got the better task here :D
<nacc> TJ-: you. a thousand times you :)
<nacc> manual bootstrapping of phpunit is a PITA
<daftykins> o0
<nacc> daftykins: looped dependencies :)
<nacc> phpunit is used to test all of its own dependencies, which phpunit in turn depends on
<daftykins> i upgraded my ZFS test box to 18.04 for fun, that got stuck with plymouth text depending on lsb-release being configured, which depended on plymouth text being configured - that was fun
<nacc> daftykins: was that the ping loop?
<nacc> *a ping loop, i mean
<daftykins> not sure how you mean 'ping' in the context of packages
<TJ-> daftykins: the plymouth --ping bug
<daftykins> it wasn't an important machine - and i only upgraded for fun, so i just nuked it :)
<daftykins> i have no idea what that is
<daftykins> TJ-: oh you'd love this, it seems subiquity fails to even nuke a disk that isn't already blank, to install to
<TJ-> plymouth gets stuck in a loop ping-ing itself
<daftykins> it was only trying to configure it at upgrade time, so i have no evidence to that
<TJ-> daftykins: Yes, I saw that bug too when I was going through the list
<daftykins> ah i didn't see anything along those lines earlier with a quick glance
<daftykins> essentially every feature of that installer doesn't work
<daftykins> oh and what's with this netplan rubbish?
<TJ-> daftykins: that's why i's called _sub_iquity :)
<TJ-> netplan isn't rubbish!
<daftykins> well it sure looks it when you have to write silly format config files
<TJ-> The point is that they can be written in a single syntax and deployed to systemd-networkd, network-manager, ifupdown or anything else at boot-time without the admin needing to learn different net configs
<daftykins> yeah instead they just have to learn a ridiculous format judging by what i've seen :/
<daftykins> also what's cloud-init about? sounded like it was going off online to do something
<nacc> daftykins: http://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
<TJ-> It's YAML format
<daftykins> it has a quirky mix of new lines and square braces for comma separated lists and ugh
<daftykins> doubt i'll learn to write out of those out from memory versus the lovely simple /etc/network/interfaces :)
<nacc> daftykins: that's YAMLL
<nacc> you can either use a [] list or a newlined, - started list
<daftykins> :|
<nacc> and if you have to do anything even reasonaby compilcated (thinnk cloud) with eni, you'd know why it's terrible :)
<TJ-> ifupdown is about 20 years old!
<nacc> yeah
<daftykins> well age isn't a very good argument
<nacc> in that it has't changed in 20 years while the entire industry has
<nacc> it is *an* argument, at lelast
<daftykins> can't see why this cloud-init junk needs to be on by default but ho-hum
<TJ-> Because the massive majority of ubuntu-server deploys are now virtual machines or containers
<daftykins> extra junk to purge then
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-01
<mouse_>  download  some thing on firefox browser,   its  looks complete ,but when i try to find the file couldnt find it , who can help me ?
<nacc> mouse_: you want #ubuntu i guess, or really #firefox
<mouse_> @nacc  actually i had download  One file  "GNS3 IOS.zip"   on firefox .  size 271 MB
<nacc> mouse_: still not for this channel
<mouse_>    but i couldn't find this file in my system
<mouse_> ok .... sorry
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 uses Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<lotuspsychje> 77mb bionic updates
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) WB .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> all fine here lordievader
<lotuspsychje> rainy outside
<Bashing-om> g nite all - pick up the fight on the morrow \o
<lordievader> It is dry here, for a change.
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> hey hey ducasse
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> morning, lordievader + lotuspsychje - how are you?
<ducasse> all good here, thanks :)
<lordievader> Doing good here ð
<lotuspsychje> all good, and you ducasse
<ducasse> looks cold out, and been snowing all night
<jink> Morning. ^__^
<lotuspsychje> hi jink
<ducasse> \o jink
<jink> I need to reinstall my VPS, since it's 16.10 and I can't do-release-upgrade anymore.  I need to somehow backup my config and data (and try to not forget anything).
<jink> I should probably go with LTS, next time. :P
<ducasse> can't you use old-releases to do an in-place upgrade?
<jink> I don't know.  Can I?
<jink> ducasse: URL?  Or do you want to talk me through it? :P
<jink> Thanks, I think I got it.
<jink> (I should probably still make a backup, but whatever #yolo)
<lordievader> !eolupgrade
<ubot5> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<lordievader> jink: ^
<jink> Yeah, that's the one I'm reading now. :D
<ducasse> i would probably still upgrade, but if you don't use any ppas it should be painless
<ducasse> not upgrade, backup - sorry
<jink> !ppa
<ubot5> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge
<jink> keybase and nodesource.
<jink> But those shouldn't interfere too much.
<jink> Do I need to do that kernel step?  I have a kernel, right?  Which one should I pick?
<ducasse> as long as linux-image-generic is installed you should be fine
<jink> It is. :)
<jink> And headers, too.
<jink> "An upgrade from 'yakkety' to 'artful' is not supported with this tool." :/
<ducasse> ok, that will pull in the newer kernel packages, then
<ducasse> ah, you would need to go via zesty, probably
<jink> Can you guess my next question? :D
<ducasse> not sure if you can convince the upgrader to do that, or if you would need to do a manual upgrade
<ducasse> i've gone from 14.10 to 16.04 via all the intermediate steps, and back then the upgrader just did it
<jink> I'm not even sure what do-release-upgrade does that makes it work.  Can I just sed -i -e 's/yakkety/zesty/g' sources.list and then upgrade?
<ducasse> you _can_ - in essence that is what the upgrader does. remember to comment out your ppas while upgrading and editing them for the newer release later
<jink> Great stuff.  I'll give that a go.
<ducasse> i'm not even sure you need to go via zesty when you do it manually, or if you could jump straight to artful
<jink> :D
<jink> Flip a coin? :D
<jink> Through old-releases, or just regular sources?
<ducasse> artful is in the regular sources
<jink> Yes.  So, I'll just s/yakkety/artful/g on the regular sources, and remove the old-releases sources.
<ducasse> this isn't the recommended way to do it, so backup first :)
<jink> :P
<jink> I saved /etc /home /root /var/www /var/lib/apache2 /var/lib/mysql* /var/mail  Anything else? :D
<ducasse> sounds good to me :)
<jink> 621 upgraded, 67 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<jink> Errrrrrrrhm, here goes nothing, I guess.
<ducasse> :)
<jink> And updating my phone at the same time.
<jink> I'll probably need to reboot, right?
<jink> So far, so good.  Now my postfix won't start.
<jink> The rest seems to've worked, though.
<jink> (Y)
<jink> Much obliged, ducasse.
<ducasse> np, glad it went ok. any errors from postfix?
<jink> Not that I can tell.
<jink> systemctl lists it as "active (exited)"  and netstat -plntW doesn't show it listening.
<ducasse> if it fails to start there should be something in the logs, try 'journalctl -xe'
<jink> That just claims it's up. :/
<jink> I'm currently looking at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=877992 but I just started reading, so I'm not sure it applies.
<ubot5> Debian bug 877992 in postfix "postfix: Postfix does not start services after upgrade to stretch 9.2 and reboot" [Important,Open]
<jink> systemctl enable postfix@-  seems to've worked.  Not sure what happened there.
<ducasse> goodie, then :)
<jink> I knew that postfix had trouble starting on boot.  Perhaps because it tries to bind before the interfaces are available, but a normal start after boot usually took care of that.
<jink> Anyway, thanks a bunch.  Coffee and some actual work. :')
<ducasse> np, have fun :)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> morning, BluesKaj
<daftykins> morning gents \o
 * daftykins is back from the vet
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse,daftykins
<ducasse> hi, daftykins - how did the vet visit go?
<daftykins> turns out i'm human and have to go to a normal doctor! ;)
<daftykins> nah not too bad, got a stronger form of treatment for on her neck like the usual flea prevention stuff - so hopefully that does the trick
<daftykins> sadly it won't help me with all the regular cleaning i'll still have to do in the meantime!
<ducasse> hehe, that will keep you busy, i'm sure :)
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> i'm glad i have mostly wooden or tiled floors rather than carpet, i'm sure it'd be much worse
<ducasse> i'm sure it would. never had this problem, tbh.
<daftykins> no, i was an idiot and didn't apply the prevention stuff regularly enough, so here i am - but oh well, lesson learned
<daftykins> when you have no problems it's all too easy to think it's for nothing, but now i know first hand what it's to stop :D
<ducasse> never used that, guess i'm just lucky :)
<daftykins> really? do you do no regular treatments then?
<jink> We hardly ever treat our cats.
<ducasse> never have
<jink> Out of 4, only 1 goes outside, about every day.
<daftykins> https://www.advocate-spot-on.com/ this is what i tend to have
<jink> We use Stronghold.
<ducasse> here goes, luna has discovered the birds feeding outside :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> have you folks had this Scarecrow user in today asking about NFS trouble on a 17.10 digitalocean droplet? (VPS)
<daftykins> pauljw: \o
<pauljw> hi daftykins :D
<pauljw> hi everyone
<ducasse> daftykins: oh, he's on a vps - he didn't mention that
<ducasse> hi pauljw
<daftykins> they never do :)
<pauljw> hi ducasse
<daftykins> never used NFS so i'm leaving that one alone, presumably someone is actively assisting
<ducasse> i tried, but have no more suggestions. nfs has always just workedâ¢ for me
<daftykins> 12:35 < Scarecrow> We were advised by digital ocean to upgrade due to the recent Spectre / Meltdown
<daftykins>                    issues that have arisen
<daftykins> talk about taking a user wide mailing the wrong way, they said ensure you're on a current kernel, not upgrade release :>
<pauljw> i was on the forums over at DO the other night just looking around and man, there are a bunch that have a very big learning curve ahead of them.
<ducasse> we've got this character in #u that first turned up maybe 4-5 weeks back, completely new to linux and asking really newbie questions, and he's already started piping in with advice to people. most of it is dead wrong, of course :)
<TJ-> That's be me :D
<pauljw> :)
<ducasse> hehe, not exactly ;)
<BluesKaj> a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing
<daftykins> i think that's how i was snared, turned up to ask something more complex - got no answer, started helping with the basics
<ducasse> this guy still needs help with the basics, though
<daftykins> :D
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw , what's DO ?
<daftykins> digitalocean
<BluesKaj> ok
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj, sorry, didn't see your question...
<BluesKaj> np pauljw :-0
<BluesKaj> oops :-)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> li took a look a t digital ocean a while back, but realized it was more than i needed
<pauljw> probably is for me too, but i felt i needed the experience of setting up my own vpn server.  not that i'm any smarter by doing so, just proved i can follow instructions. :D
<jink> https://www.transip.nl/vps/   https://www.transip.nl/vps/pro/
<jink> (Y)
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> jink: more expensive and doesn't do it any better
<jink> Can't judge that.  I don't have DO. :D
<pauljw> bbl...
<TJ-> I've put together shell script to automate cleaning up out-of-space issues in /boot/ - it first detects and removes the (large) initrd.img files to create space before calling autoremove.  http://iam.tj/projects/ubuntu/apt-autoremove-old-kernels
<nacc> and skype as a snap reelases
<nacc> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/02/01/skype-now-available-as-a-snap-for-linux-users/
<daftykins> any ideas if it's newer than the ancient .deb they offer for download?
<kostkon> both are at 8.14.0.10
<daftykins> ah sounds like they did eventually move on... in fact come to think of it i remember a desktop Linux using friend complaining about the silly emoticons :D
<nacc> daftykins: i haven't llooked at it all :)
<daftykins> is that of a tinfoil hat nature? :)
<nacc> daftykins: i don't use skype :)
<daftykins> yeah i got that part
<TJ-> nacc believes in more extreme torture... PHP unit tests :p
<nacc> also that
<daftykins> so, this maintenance task that runs to periodically update snaps... what does it do when they're in use?
<nacc> it's a squashfs mount
<nacc> so the old mount is still held open, but unmounted
<nacc> so a new exec will use the new snap, i think
<daftykins> but if it's a messaging utility, such as Skype, that remains open?
<nacc> daftykins: i'm honestly not sure
<daftykins> totally unrelated but i have this client who is pretty scatter-brained, so leaves email they intend to reply to open - usually about 20 all along the taskbar xD this prevents their office suite ever updating since it thinks it's in use
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hi LtWorf
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> how are you today
<pauljw> good thanks, you?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<pauljw> :)
<ducasse> evening, lotuspsychje - finished at work?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse yeah
<lotuspsychje> you had a good day ducasse
<ducasse> all good here :)
<immu> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/install-skype-linux-ubuntu
<immu> daftykins,  ducasse hi all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> what's new?
<immu> installed skype as a snap and its awesome
<daftykins> still not a fan of the concept of snaps myself :)
<immu> snaps and flatpack are leading the way
<immu> but i am for snaps
<TJ-> leading the way into the past, probably
<nacc> daftykins: tbh, (and imo only), i think snaps/flatpack are the only way for linux on the desktop to exist
<nacc> s/exist/thrive/
<daftykins> then it's doomed :)
<nacc> heh
<daftykins> flatpack? IKEA? :D
<TJ-> the whole bundling app+libs concept, from a security POV, is seriously flawed. We go from a single version of distro-supported library/application with developers/packagers knowledgeable and focused on them, to multiple 'apps' bundling their own different library versions, packaged by app-devs who probably barely managed to package the bundle, let alone be able to patch bugs or vulnerabilities in the
<TJ-> libraries. That has to be done for each snap, by it's publishers, so now you're reliant on timely patches and updates across multiple bundles, by people who have little security patching experience.
<lotuspsychje> but the good news is, we can use latest packages somehow :p
<nacc> TJ-: that's where parts come in
<nacc> TJ-: and you can specify dependencies for packages
<nacc> *as* packages
<nacc> and it should dtrt across the distros
<nacc> (that's my understanding)
<TJ-> but it's still expecting the work to be done and provided outside of the distro ecosystem, in some ways it could be worse, what if App A depends on Part P, there's a vulnerability in P that affects A, but the publisher of P doesn't fix it?
<nacc> then you shouldn't use that part
<nacc> it's lilke any package dependency
<nacc> TJ-: tbh, upstreams are *way* faster at doig most of this than the distros
<TJ-> Right, but how does dev of App A know that in 6 months time Part P is going to have a vulnerability?
<nacc> I don't understand?
<nacc> upstreams do CI
<nacc> the CI buillds the sanp
<nacc> in any case, that was just my $.02
<nacc> if you want to use linux on the desktop, get used to this model
<nacc> if you want to improve the model, contribute
<nacc> (TJ-: i know you do)
<TJ-> I gave up on Linux desktop years ago; too many 'designers' and 'devs' and not enough 'engineers'.
<nacc> heh
<nacc> there's also $0 i it
<nacc> *in it
<TJ-> Right, part of the reason desktop struggles is the lack of stability of features - ripping features out during major-version rewrites (e.g. KDE, Gnome) instead of providing a continuous upgrade path. Users just about get used to finding their way around and !bam! it all changes from under them
<TJ-> The only thing I use GUI for nowadays is Firefox
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: LTS is trying to get the users some sort of stable feeling no?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i installed xenial on like 50 machines
<lotuspsychje> all working like a charm
<lotuspsychje> i understand your point, but linux is still a good thing right
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: consider 16.04 > 18.04 ... Unity > Gnome ... despite the massaging there are 'gotchya' differences with hot-keys, discovery, behavior, that we've seen reported for 17.10. Similar to the older KDE4 > 5 transition, and the Gnome 3 > 4 transition. User's have spent years on LTS, become familiar, and then suddenly things aren't working the way they expect
<TJ-> Linux is fine, the command-line interface has been stable forever :) It's the GUIs that are stuck in a loop or reinventing themselves
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: perhaps it feels that way, now were at a crosspoint wayland?
<lotuspsychje> many stuff are happening, also mobile world
<nacc> linux != ubuntu  or any distro, really, to be clear
<lotuspsychje> also true nacc
<nacc> i think, all the linux-based desktop distros have been circling for a while
<nacc> they are finally converginng cross-distro
<nacc> because they are all failing
<lotuspsychje> fedora struggling with wayland aswell
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'm not even considering Wayland, that's like pulling the rug out from under the desktop environments actually
<nacc> yeah it's orthogonal
<lotuspsychje> youve read kde going mobile
<lotuspsychje> all sorts of stuff changing
<nacc> yeah, keep in mind, what i mentioned above
<lotuspsychje> and i still believe thats a good thing
<nacc> is mobille didn't exist
<nacc> when most desktop arches were designed
<nacc> so all distros are realizing they need to work everywhere (in theory)
<nacc> i feel like it's easy to forget that smart phones have nont always existed
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<TJ-> The problem has been, though, that most projects thought they could 'simplify' with one-size-fits-all, but focused on the small/low-resolution displays at the expense of large/high-resolution + multiple displays
<nacc> absolutely
<nacc> well, X itself was a problem
<nacc> *is* a problem
<nacc> you can't do aythinng remotely modern with X any more
<nacc> and no one would design an graphics system that way :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: didnt you say once one flavor was perfect for your 6 screens?
<TJ-> The fast-path on a local client+server is OK, and could have been optimized or an alternate, process-elected, direct path used. And if remote is needed it's there waiting for ssh -X/-Y and so on
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: yes, xubuntu or lubuntu
<lotuspsychje> right
<immu> i am back
<lotuspsychje> tv time ; )
<immu> i just watched star trek discovery
<daftykins> what did you think? are you familiar with all the old series?
<oerheks> hggdh, i find it troublesome installing a 2nd De, and removing one ..
<daftykins> always gonna be junk left behind / added :>
<immu> you aksing me daftykins ?
<immu> i have watches earlier series
<immu> watched
<immu> and i am following this one:)
<oerheks> DE as a snap, i wish that fixes such issue
<hggdh> oerheks: I find it potentially destructive...
<oerheks> maybe !purekde factoid is still valid
<hggdh> but to each their own. If the OP wants to try... ,shrug/> all we can do is warn
<immu> resistance is futile
<Bashing-om> o/ Better late than not at all :)
<oerheks> hi Bashing-om, you are not late at all
<Bashing-om> oerheks: /me now has to wonder what I have missed .
<TJ-> Hiya Bashing-om :)
<TJ-> You've missed a /really/ weird issue with elichai2 where his system had replaced /bin/dash and many coreutils/cpio binaries with busybox symlinks, breaking almost everything we tried to do to fix the system.
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> how had busybox gotten on there o0
<daftykins> that also sounds like it would be a user hiding behind a translator ;D
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Ouch - I hate when I miss a goody - maybe good nuff to read the logs :)
<TJ-> daftykins: no problem it being installed, but I've not figured out what re-wrote the symlinks/tools
<daftykins> :>
<TJ-> he did use boot-repair but I cannot find any evidence it does that!
<TJ-> As I understand it, this started out with (simply) wanting to switch a 16.04 install from BIOS to EFI boot with encrypted rootfs. Used boot-repair apparently to try to do it, then after that didn't work, tried to re-install 16.04 over the top using the LiveISO installer. That's probably how busybox took over actually, then ended up trying to fix it via a chroot where most scripts that shebanged
<TJ-> /bin/sh failed
<Bashing-om> One thing about raising a head in support, never can tell where it is going to lead - nor where it will end :)
<TJ-> yeah, what looks like a 2 minute job turns into a marathon
<daftykins> well they found the right helper alright ;)
<Bashing-om> TJ-: But them the ones ya get brownie points for :P
<TJ-> I'd prefer just the chocolate brownies :D
<daftykins> don't tell me you added brownies :O
<daftykins> !cookie | TJ-
<ubot5> TJ-: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<TJ-> only one!? pfft :p
<daftykins> well we wouldn't want you getting too comfy :D
<Bashing-om> Now that do sound tempting .. been a while for the chocolate brownies :(
<daftykins> put in a request to the management, Bashing-om ;)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: once there was a sanyd -- would make sure CCCs were in the irc pantry .
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Not a bad thought as an incentitive for support .. A good solve gets a dozen CCCs mailed from "management" :P
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> CCCs? Caonical Cookie Cutters ?
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Sure that applies .. - context ! - Chocolate Chip Cookies- FTW .
<TJ-> oooooohhhh! duh
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-02
<oerheks> interesting, GRUB_TIMEOUT=2 ... https://itsfoss.com/speed-up-ubuntu-1310/
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Cause I am s l o w " GRUB_TIMEOUT=3
<Bashing-om> Comming down with a cold - off to bed, see if I feel the better ,. \o
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> 42mb bionic updates
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all good thanks, and you?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse lordievader
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje :) how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> great ducasse ty
<lotuspsychje> almost weekend
<lotuspsychje> !final
<ubot5> If you install a development version of Ubuntu bionic and keep up with package updates, then you will be upgraded to the official release of 18.04 when it comes out. To make sure, type Â« sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade Â» in a terminal.
<lotuspsychje> good good
<lotuspsychje> !info limnoria | ducasse
<ubot5> ducasse: limnoria (source: limnoria): robust and user-friendly Python IRC bot. In component universe, is optional. Version 2017.08.18-1 (artful), package size 553 kB, installed size 4364 kB
<lotuspsychje> for later :p
<ducasse> do you use the package or from git?
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> the ubuntu repos one
<ducasse> the vps is on xenial, might be better to pull from git to get fresher code
<lotuspsychje> okay
<ducasse> !info limnoria xenial
<ubot5> Package limnoria does not exist in xenial
<ducasse> ah, no choice, then :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> !info limnoria bionic
<ubot5> limnoria (source: limnoria): robust and user-friendly Python IRC bot. In component universe, is optional. Version 2018.01.25-1 (bionic), package size 555 kB, installed size 4398 kB
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi duxasse, how's it going?
<ducasse> all good here, how about you?
<BluesKaj> ducasse, even
<BluesKaj> fine here too
<BluesKaj> cool morning heree, again , but I think my thermometer exaggerates both ends of the teemperature spectrum
<ducasse> right around 0 here
<ducasse> set up a bot for lotus' channel today, running on my vps
<BluesKaj> officially it's -22 , but my thermometer reads -28, and in summer when it gets to 30 officialy, mine reads 33
<BluesKaj> what kind of bot?
<ducasse> limnoria, a fork of supybot
<BluesKaj> no idea about that
<BluesKaj> ok , Simple Supybot plugin to ignore private messages from users that don't share channels with the bot
<BluesKaj> good idea
<ducasse> this one doesn't do too much yet, i left it to lotus to set up the plugins etc he wants
<pauljw> hi everyone
<ducasse> hi, oerheks! does the eolupgrades procedure still work when going yakkety to artful? we tested yesterday, and it wouldn't do it
<oerheks> oh, surprisingly .. 16.10 to 17.04 should be possible,,
<ducasse> it wasn't, we tried with another user yesterday
<oerheks> :-(
<ducasse> just said 'this tool is unable to upgrade' etc
<oerheks> hmm .. https://askubuntu.com/questions/996768/upgrade-from-yakkety-yak-ubuntu-16-10-when-its-end-of-life/996936
<TJ-> ducasse: is /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades configured for lts or normal ?
<immu> whats up amigos
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> 88mb bionic updates
<nacc> lotuspsychje: a bunch of transitions are going through right now
<nacc> perl. ruby, php, etc
<lotuspsychje> hey morning nacc
<nacc> evening here
<lotuspsychje> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 uses Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: you alive mate?
<lotuspsychje> !info vlc bionic
<ubot5> vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.0~rc7-2ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 31 kB, installed size 153 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.25.26 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> ill restart later :p
<lotuspsychje> hmm main sleeping, lets wake em up
<ducking> On topic non-support? Just Ubuntu banter sans support?
<lotuspsychje> ducking: what you mean?
<ducking> idk, says non support so it's just chat related to ubuntu not support? or just a general chat?
<lotuspsychje> oh we talk about ubuntu mostly here, but the line is thin with ubuntu-offtopic
<lotuspsychje> most active volunteers are here, talk to each other
<ducking> Ah, I see, so maybe I could just go HALP PLS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1747030
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1747030 in Ubuntu "Native screen recording issue (Shift+Ctrl+Alt+R)" [Undecided,New]
<ducking> But really, I have no idea how to investigate further or know anyone who develops.
<lotuspsychje> ducking: ubuntu problems you can ask in #ubuntu mate
<nacc> lotuspsychje: is this person trolling? I can't tell
<ducking> nacc, might not be a native English speaker?
<ducking> Seems borderline though
<nacc> ducking: really hard to tell late on a Friday
<lotuspsychje> i think hes's trolling
<nacc> everyone is :)
<nacc> i'm signing off for the weekend
<nacc> have a good one!
<ducasse> good morning, all
<ducking> mernin ducasse
<ducasse> \o
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: awake?
<ducasse> good afternoon, all
<EriC^^> evening all
<ducasse> hi EriC^^ - all well?
<EriC^^> hi ducasse , yes thanks :) yourself?
<ducasse> thumbs up :)
<ducking> Zoop Zoop mmmmm dat Aphex Twin get shit done music :^)
<ducking> Any recommendations for IDM / similar electronica?
<ducking> Love some Squarepusher
<ducking> No / Minimal vocals, they distract me :|
<lotuspsychje> ducking: have you tested mixing.dj ?
<lotuspsychje> huge database of electronic music livesets
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: awake now, but will be fireflying at the keyboard
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i understand your part of council group?
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: yes
<hggdh> the IRCC, specifically
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: we would like to improve the system to edit factoids better way
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: the way we deal with it right now, is talk to dax to edit..but he would like it better when he's not alone to deal with it
<ducking> lotuspsychje, never heard of mixing.dj
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: when using the official factoid way, when #nobody is awake in #ubuntu-ops it gets lost in space
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: you have an idea howto approach this council point of view?
<hggdh> well
<hggdh> first of all, you should not ping dax only. dax is one, but not the single one op, that can edit factoids
<hggdh> pinging sending to #ubuntu-ops will get the attention of any of the ops that can edit factoids
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: we know that, but this resulted this way because so many attempts the normal way failed
<lotuspsychje> i dont wanna spam ubuntu-ops every day for the same factoid right?
<hggdh> this is one of the reasons we have #u-ops :-)  But I understand this may be not ideal
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: isnt there a way we could record a request somehow?
<lotuspsychje> so ops can check oh there's like 3 factoids waiting to be edited
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: how about you send an email to ubuntu-irc@lists.ubuntu.com to start a public discussion on how we could handle that?
<lotuspsychje> allrighty
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: yes, I  agree that should be some form of queue(?) where factoid requests would be visible
<hggdh> s/that should/that there should/
<hggdh> queue -- register, line, stack, whatever
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> right now, alot of factoids are outdated, would be nice volunteers can help the ops improve a faster way
<hggdh> I agree
<hggdh> eventually we should go into a spring cleanup-type of effort
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i did that once with dax, few hours of cleanout
<hggdh> we had some cleanup a ew years ago, but is was probably conservative
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: but things keep changing in ubuntu also
<hggdh> s/ew/f&/
<lotuspsychje> so would be nice to have an automatic kind of system going
<hggdh> yes, they keep changing. And, with the size of the corpus, we probably would benefit from a more structured approach
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i start this discussion from my gmail?
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: yes, emailing the ubuntu-irc mailing list. Theoretically, all people involved in the Ubuntu IRC are there
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: allrighty
 * ducking lurks moar to find out where I'll be able to help 
<ducking> :3
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: sended, but needs approval by moderator because im not member
<hggdh> email approved
<TJ-> Anyone remember the (russian?) user Neo4 needing extensive help configuring a web-server, DNS, email, etc.?
<daftykins> nope!
<daftykins> did something amusing occur?
<TJ-> yeah... it was quite dispiriting because of the user's naivity... just seen the user in ##linux asking how to find investors for a project, and people would steal his project if he published it on github...
<TJ-> ... it's a lottery web-site :O
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> sounds like he has a line in voting computers *cough*
<tomreyn> doh, and i tried to support him
<tomreyn> a couple of us did, i'm sure
<TJ-> tomreyn: yeah, you remember :)
<tomreyn> indeed, i do
<tomreyn> "[Neo4] (~Thunderbi@..." - maybe we should the mutual benefit of open source to him some day.
<tomreyn> *explain
<TJ-> I'm surprised he wasn't starting his own cryptocurrency :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-04
<tomreyn> :)
<daftykins> there's time ;)
<chris__> Hello
<lotuspsychje> good night to all
<lotuspsychje> hey nacc
<nacc> lotuspsychje: hi
<TJ-> who the heck messed up ubiquity !? 1st it tells me "This computer only has 0.0 B" then trying to use "ubiquity --debug" doesn't result in any extra info in /var/log/installer/debug or anywhere else I can find
<lotuspsychje> hmm i had that recently in ubuntu also
<lotuspsychje> sorry ubuntu needs 8gig to install, on a 80gig seagate
<TJ-> not found where the message originates in the source yet
<TJ-> turns out the code calls "/bin/parted_devices" which - I think - is supposed to return device names and sizes, but is returning nothing
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: good luck with joellame..its like 3 days he's trying to fix apt-offline
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-27
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<oerheks> SO .. Avast is a virus that keeps other virusses away .. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjdkq7/avast-antivirus-sells-user-browsing-data-investigation
<tomreyn> oh, so all the urls the user visits are not only uploaded to detect threats then, who would have ever imagined?
<pragmaticenigma> I love it when it's the Anti-Viruses fault... It's not Avast Anti-Virus... it's a browser plugin that you optionally install
<pragmaticenigma> but no one reads the prompts when installing anything... or more importantly... bothers to chose "custom install" and would see that little gem
<leftyfb> tomreyn: where did they mention tomcat?
<tomreyn> leftyfb: nowhere, i'm just trying to point out that there is a myriad of projects under the apache software foundations' umbrella
<leftyfb> nobody installed tomcat by accident ;)
<leftyfb> installs*
<tomreyn> i guess the http server package being called 'apache' doesn't exactly help, even if it's for historical reasons.
<tomreyn> the rpm distros made a better naming choice there
 * pizzaiolo wonders if there's apache2, what happened to apache1?
<daftykins> that's not a very complicated question
<marcoagpinto> Heya!
<marcoagpinto> guys?! Does Ubuntu support images in the title bar of the window? PaintShopPro 2019 for Windows has a logo in the title bar instead of text
<marcoagpinto> :)
<akemhp> I guess you can have skinned windows yes, back in the days there was xmms, it was all skinned IIRC like Winamp.
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> good to know
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> thanks
<marcoagpinto> now I just need to win the EuroMillions tomorrow and ask the developer of PureBasic to implement it :p
<akemhp> You do some PureBasic on Linux?
<marcoagpinto> yes
<daftykins> waste of time, silly idea
<akemhp> Ok.
<marcoagpinto> there is a Windows+Linux+Mac version
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: :((((((((
<akemhp> Well, on Linux there is also Python and Ruby.
<akemhp> They are very good languages with lots of extensions.
<marcoagpinto> I am a lazy arse... I will only code in PureBasic
<marcoagpinto> :)
<akemhp> I use Ruby.
<marcoagpinto> since it is not what I make a living, I will only use PureBasic
<marcoagpinto> akemhp: https://proofingtoolgui.org/default.htm#whypurebasic
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> "use the best tool for the job"
<akemhp> Not my job either, i just like the language a lot.
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> just like me
<marcoagpinto> :)
<akemhp> Yeah i have another friend who was doing PureBasic.
<akemhp> But on Windows.
<marcoagpinto> I wanted to suggest to the developer to only support Ubuntu 18.04 and above :)
<marcoagpinto> but I need to win the EuroMillions to pay to him to do that
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> and Windows 7+
<daftykins> Windows 7 is EOL now :) no more support needed
<marcoagpinto> I know
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: but Windows 7 users may get offended if support is removed
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> just like Windows Vista... there are tons of people using it, so I had to release a "legacy" UK speller for Thunderbird and Firefox
<marcoagpinto> :)
<daftykins> you should never enable holdouts
<marcoagpinto> a what?
<daftykins> people unwilling to move with the times
<marcoagpinto> well, not everyone can afford a new computer
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> it took me 11 years to buy a powerful one
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: It's not about cost of a new computer. It's that the system is not receiving updates from its manufacturer and thus becoming more and more vulnerable to attacks, malware and viruses being allowed to continue working on the Internet
<marcoagpinto> ahhhhhhh
<pragmaticenigma> It's that it puts everyone else at risk, it reduces the quality of the experience for everyone else as well... Botnets are not cool
<marcoagpinto> ahhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> well, Nero is still using Visual Studio 2010 or so :)
<pragmaticenigma> Visual Studio isn't an entire operating system
<marcoagpinto> I know
<marcoagpinto> but I get annoying with it installing DLLs from 2010
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> can't they afford Visual Studio 2019?
<pragmaticenigma> I don't understand where you're going with this line of thought
<daftykins> they don't need a new computer to run a newer Windows typically
<pragmaticenigma> To me "Nero" is a CD burning utility from the early 2000's
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh... what I mean is that they are still releasing software based on very old machines and software
<daftykins> they develop against a different set of components, those redistributables don't need to have the current year on them
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: it is in the app panel :) the year and version of the files
<marcoagpinto> :)
<akemhp> Well if your hardware was made especially for/with Windows 7 in mind, it may not even be able to correctly run Win 10 (for Windows users obviously), so you just keep Win7, it's not like it will suddently stop to work.
<akemhp> And there is probably no appropriate drivers for such machines for Win10 anyway.
<daftykins> akemhp: 100% false they are quite comparably light
<daftykins> marcoagpinto: you don't understand, the class of component means the age isn't relevant
<daftykins> so you are judging something without the understanding of what it is
<marcoagpinto> ahhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> :)
<akemhp> daftykins, I run Win7 with old dual core and 2GB of RAM.
<daftykins> right
<akemhp> And i have an old laptop which has no correct graphic drivers on Win 10
<pragmaticenigma> akemhp: I've installed windows 10 on a 32bit Celeron from 2004... it ain't pretty, but it was functional
<akemhp> For the 3D acceleration part.
<daftykins> i think you'd be dreaming to be after anything 3D to begin with then
<marcoagpinto> well, yesterday I updated the BIOS of my Lenovo... and it crashed when I pressed the proceed button
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> it crashed Windows 10 with a blue screen
<daftykins> doesn't sound like you updated it then
<marcoagpinto> luckily I was able to boot and retry...
<marcoagpinto> it seems the BIOS update needed to be done alone of other updates
<marcoagpinto> :)
<akemhp> Well there was already 3D games and software...
<pragmaticenigma> sounds like someone didn't read all the instructions either...
<marcoagpinto> I was very lucky not to damage my computer
<daftykins> yes always - and with no programs open ideally
<akemhp> Anyway that's not the appropriate channel for Windows stuff :P
<daftykins> akemhp: that's a very weak argument, times change
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: Every BIOS update utility I've worked with has always included the words "Only run on a fully updated OS, and make sure all other programs are closed when running the update utility"
<daftykins> yep methinks the user did not read (:
<pragmaticenigma> A pebkac is not a bug
<akemhp> The only real option for older hardware is Linux, like LUbuntu. But not Windows 10.
<marcoagpinto> pragmaticenigma: I read that... but the window didn't say I couldn't run the other Lenovo updates... there were several updates
<marcoagpinto> I selected all the updates and clicked in the update button
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: How do you think those updates are installed??? They use a program to run... hence, Do not run other programs
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I now know :)
<marcoagpinto> but yesterday I didn't
<pragmaticenigma> all that sugar is affecting your eyesight
<marcoagpinto> :(((((((
<daftykins> never smart to leave those manufacturer update checkers installed, too
<daftykins> sounds like a factory install - nasty stuff
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: yes, I know, but there is an app for Lenovo updates
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> it autoruns on the background and checks for updates
<daftykins> yes and should never be left installed
<daftykins> nor even factory installs kept
<marcoagpinto> but... it had a nVidia driver update too
<marcoagpinto> after I installed nVidia update, it rebooted my laptop
<daftykins> so?
<marcoagpinto> only BIOS + nVIdia were left after the blue screen crash
<marcoagpinto> so, I installed one at a time
<marcoagpinto> it was such a scary experience... my body still shakes when I think of it
<marcoagpinto> :(
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: which is why it was recommended that you remove the lenovo app
<marcoagpinto> pragmaticenigma: but it shows the free nvidia RAM, computer RAM, HDD space, CPU load and such
<marcoagpinto> it shows all details I need to know
<daftykins> that is complete rubbish, all those features are found elsewhere in Windows
<daftykins> if you read more news you'd know that these update utilities have been taken over with malware on multiple manufacturers systems
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> I didn't know that
<pragmaticenigma> nvidia control centre is going to give you more accurate measurements about your graphics card, especially compared to what ever the software devs and lenovo managed to reverse engineer to get it to work "for now"
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: pragmaticenigma: https://i.imgur.com/1DxkfQ6.png
<marcoagpinto> here is what it shows
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> it has an "update system" button
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> now I won't press it again
<daftykins> there's nothing wrong with doing updates, just remove the program
<daftykins> i don't need to be shown what it looks like, i've worked on all brands of system
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> oki
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: Press "Ctrl + Shift + Esc" ... make sure it's in the "More details" mode... then click the performance tab
<pragmaticenigma> all the same information is right there
<pragmaticenigma> in fact... more information is available there, including operating temperatures, capacity, utilization, activty, and more
<pragmaticenigma> all built in to windows
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> :(
<hggdh> !19.04
<ubot5> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) was the 30th release of Ubuntu, supported ended January 2020. see !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2020-January/005263.html
<marcoagpinto> !20.04
<ubot5> Ubuntu 20.04 (Focal Fossa) will be the 32nd release of Ubuntu, scheduled for April 2020 ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseSchedule ). It will be a long-term support release. Join #ubuntu+1 for support and questions.
<pragmaticenigma> so an hour long debugging session ended with not understanding localhost interfaces
<sarnold> heh, fgunny, I figured it was due to not understanding tcp, instead :)
<merliner> Hello. From a Debian server background to an Ubuntu desktop experience, I'm finding several new things to learn about, and I'm starting with apparmor and snap packaging, both of which could be candidates for not yet having the full support and endorsement of the user community. Would anybody like to share their experience with these features, positive or negative?
<daftykins> snapd is the first thing i purge
<daftykins> apparmor has never gotten in my way
<daftykins> i mostly use ubuntu with servers though, in fairness
<merliner> That's quite the fair distinction. Snaps look more GUI oriented to me.
<merliner> I don't need beta/edge versions.
<daftykins> there seem to be multiple methods around to try and package up fully compatible software with their dependencies, to avoid the woes of support i suppose across different distros and releases... the question is whether you trust a software maker or packager to 1) update the .deb 2) update the flatpak/snap/latest buzzword
<oerheks> some complaint about te snap size, never about dependencies
<daftykins> well there's the security implications of an included component falling behind
<daftykins> i've always touted that one :D
<tomreyn> merliner: my main gripes with snaps are (1) total lack of transparency, (2) no way (AFAIK) to have control on installed versions, (3) vendor lock-in
<merliner> My tripping point was with the thunderbird email client, throwing audit: errors but not having an apparmor profile in /etc/apparmor.d/
<tomreyn> the containment is actually a good thing, i guess, as long as it's enabled.
<merliner> Not sure if I can transition my thunderbird installation from the snap version to the deb version.
<tomreyn> is there still a deb version then?
<merliner> I'm all for the apparmor containment strategy. I like that initiative, but lose track of the way it's handled by snapd.
<oerheks> snapcraft gives the same version 68.4.1
<oerheks> so yes, you can switch to deb
<oerheks> but i wonder why apparmor is not correct, should it be in the ~/snap/thunderbird folder?
<merliner> I probably ended up with the snap version of tbird because the deb version wouldn't import my config from Win7 .... but then neither did the snap version.
<tomreyn> yes, looks like the thunderbird deb's are not just transitional to snaps, yet
<merliner> they aren't yet 'stable' in snap.
<daftykins> mail clients in 2020 ;)
<daftykins> import and export have been sorely lacking for way too long
<oerheks> maybe install thunderbird with the --classic option, to get out the confinement.. but that has serious questions too
<merliner> They're a drag. I tried several email clients and am generally not nearly as happy as I was with PMMail in OS/2 ten years ago.
<merliner> (or twenty)
<oerheks> https://snapcraft.io/search?q=mail there is also hiri and mailspring
<merliner> I think I've tried them all ;-}
<merliner> I've got to go out now however; .... may be back in a couple hours. Thanks all.
<daftykins> np
<Bashing-om> UWN615 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue615 :D
<sarnold> merliner: please do file bugs about apparmor confinement on the snap packages; whoever is packaging it ought to know that it isn't working for you. They'll want DENIED lines from your dmesg, and maybe a quick description of what you were doing
<tomreyn> which brings up the question on how to file bugs against snaps
<sarnold> tomreyn: yes :(
<daftykins> get a bottle, empty it however you see fit, write your bug report on a scroll, roll it up - put a cork in - and toss it into the nearest ocean
<sarnold> "your message is important to us; we'll respond to the bottles in the order we receive them"
<tomreyn> i've been doing this all my life, until they reported about the great pacific garbage patch. and they never told me to use glass bottles only.
<merliner> Best I can tell, they're using the forum for deficiency discussions; probably a package thread under the Snap category.
<oerheks> snap info <snap> gives contactadress or url, sometimes a nice url to launchpad, see  https://askubuntu.com/a/1142328
<oerheks> i hope some day this is integrated in ubuntu-bug routine
<oerheks> with a juicy extra; stable beta edge versions
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-28
<oerheks> ok, last intel vuln https://cacheoutattack.com/
<oerheks>  yes, unless you happen to have a CPU released after Q4 2018.
<oerheks>  CVE-2020-0549
<oerheks> https://software.intel.com/security-software-guidance/software-guidance/l1d-eviction-sampling
<daftykins> pokÃ©mon with microcode!
<oerheks> angrybirds
<oerheks> aarch starts to get more interesting
<oerheks> wiki is up2date too .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_execution_CPU_vulnerabilities
<oerheks> bad bad intel https://mdsattacks.com/files/ridl-addendum2.pdf
<daftykins> RIDL me this
<oerheks> Starting with Qt 5.15, long term support (LTS) will only be available to commercial customers.  ... https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-offering-changes-2020
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Well ^ - will have to be the more selective as to what QT items are included in UWN issues :(
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !19.04
<ubot5> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) was the 30th release of Ubuntu, supported ended January 2020. see !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2020-January/005263.html
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> tnx 4 the edit
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> Hello guys
<marcoagpinto> >:) <- cola demon
<marcoagpinto> lotus psychic!
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> morning
<lotuspsychje> !hardware
<ubot5> For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport - To help debugging and improving hardware detection, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHardwareDetection
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: your bug has been triaged bug #1860899
<ubot5> bug 1860899 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Add extra information to tabs in folders" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860899
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: thanks for telling me :)
<lotuspsychje> there was already an upstream proposal
<marcoagpinto> I received the reply
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> it is a useful feature
<lotuspsychje> pray for the cola deamon it will be granted :p
<marcoagpinto> ;)
<marcoagpinto> it is good to have a new computer... now I can run my VMs here and copy files to a shared folder
<marcoagpinto> :)
<tomreyn> 18.04.4 point-release coming up shortly
<marcoagpinto> good to know :)
<marcoagpinto> tomreyn: "shortly"=="today"?
<marcoagpinto> pragmaticenigma: Hello!
<pragmaticenigma> yo
<marcoagpinto> y0
<marcoagpinto> guys?! Is there a way to see all files in a website?
<marcoagpinto> I ask this because old wordlists of the UK speller have traffic
<marcoagpinto> how do people know their name?
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: Unless the web site maintainer offers an index page, the only way is to crawl through every single page to find what is offered publically.,.
<marcoagpinto> pragmaticenigma: But how did they know about files from 2018?
<marcoagpinto> I deleted the 2018 files
<marcoagpinto> (this morning)
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: There is a site call Internet Archive... chances are, they crawled that section back then, and someone found the list there
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> but isn't it stored in the internet archive?
<marcoagpinto> the statistics claim they are downloaded from my site
<marcoagpinto> pragmaticenigma: https://i.imgur.com/54mbTwK.png
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: Welcome to the world of the Internet and Security Researchers/Hackers
<marcoagpinto> what?
<pragmaticenigma> The current trend is to scan Internet Archive for things that may have been accidentally made public once upon a time. Then said researcher will go to the hosting site to see if those files are still available
<pragmaticenigma> as well as see if other files have been left in the open
<marcoagpinto> 1647 people downloaded the wordlist from December this month
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I still don't understand what you mean?
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> and 7682 people the January file
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: In that case, I assume someone else has made a program that is using your wordlists
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhh
<pragmaticenigma> and instead of being a nice netizen, they are using your hosting of the file to provide the list to their application
<marcoagpinto> :(((((((((((
<marcoagpinto> deep linking
<marcoagpinto> :(((((
<pragmaticenigma> no
<pragmaticenigma> static linking
<marcoagpinto> anyway, from now on I will only keep the wordlists from the current and previous year
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: If it was me, I'd start maintaining those wordlists on something like github/gitlab where you can track the differences made, but only the newest file is made available. Then you can link from your site to your code repository holding the wordlist
<pragmaticenigma> That would ensure everyone that downloads it will grab the latest copy, and doesn't waste your site's bandwidth
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> I also have it in GitHub
<marcoagpinto> and 70+ persons downloading my tool?
<marcoagpinto> in the past it was some 4 or so downloads per month
<marcoagpinto> now I got 70+ just this month?
<pragmaticenigma> must be gaining interest
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> a citizen of the universe!!!! We will change the world!
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> "Together we will change the world! I have a dream: a spiritual, scientific and technological advanced civilisation with space travel technology, where life instead of price has value, happening in my lifetime."
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic eoan
<ubot5> Package linux-image-generic does not exist in eoan
<pragmaticenigma> Ubuntu 20.04 is so great... it needs no kernel!!!
<daftykins> psst that's 19.10
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah i know its for a user in #u
<pragmaticenigma> doh!
<daftykins> nah not you lotus :P
 * pragmaticenigma likes number more than these funny names
<lotuspsychje> oh lol
<daftykins> i'm definitely getting to the point where i can't recall every intel core generation name, 'buntu release, android release, macOS release...
<lotuspsychje> so many codenames indeed
<hggdh> too many code names for too many different projects
<daftykins> of course instantly disregarding non-LTS helps
<lotuspsychje> heh
<pragmaticenigma> that too
<pragmaticenigma> but focal hasn't started to trigger 20.04 for me yet
<pragmaticenigma> getting there
<sarnold> tomreyn: plutes description there is kind of all over the place.. did he say how long his computer hangs?
<tomreyn> sarnold: no, not yet
<tomreyn> sarnold: what do you mean by "all over the place", as in they said so previously?
<sarnold> tomreyn: heh, just that he's not fantastic at describing what's going on
<tomreyn> ah yes
<sarnold> starts out with something like "why do I keep disconnecting from irc" then reports some 18 ms time difference from a touch pad and then complains that he has to hard reset with a power button
<tomreyn> yes, very x->y. also a bit too paranoid.
<tomreyn> (a little bit paranoid is good, though)
<daftykins> a user beginning to ask questions who has yet to find the correct ones :)
<sarnold> lol
<sarnold> I'll have to try to remember that :)
<tomreyn> there are bios updates for your basement incl. CVE references: https://www.supermicro.com/products/system/3U/6038/SSG-6038R-E1CR16L.cfm
<sarnold> tomreyn: <3 <3 <3
<daftykins> basement o0
<tomreyn> the latest is about SMM + TXT, CVE-2019-0152
<sarnold> awwwwww crud. supermicro doesn't seem to participate in the thing that lets fwupdmgr work :(
<tomreyn> no :-/
<daftykins> last i looked most functions weren't even supported by any packages versions in 'buntu
<daftykins> *packaged
<sarnold> I'm not too worried about the CPU vulns: I've got the cpu microcode packages installed, and this machine never does anything remotely close to executing untrusted code
<sarnold> but still it'd be nice to get updates :(
<tomreyn> basement runs ucode revision 0x43, date = 2019-03-01, whereas Intel SA-00240 went public on nov 12
<tomreyn> just saying ;)
<daftykins> sounded like sandybridge era from the link so does it even apply?
<sarnold> good question, intel might already be pretending these cpus don't exist
<daftykins> that's definitely the case for laptop + desktop sandybridge and prior
<daftykins> kinda why i consider haswell a minimum as the microcode in firmware updates from system manufacturers seems more readily available
<oerheks> my next machine will be a ryzen, or something after 2018 https://cacheoutattack.com/
<oerheks> https://software.intel.com/security-software-guidance/software-guidance/l1d-eviction-sampling
<tomreyn> For CVE-2019-0151, SA-00240 lists IntelÂ® XeonÂ® Processor E3 v3 Family, which is what's installed (E5-2630 v3)
<oerheks>  CVE-2020-0549  CVE-2020-0548
<tomreyn> bah 6.5 only, i hardly move out of bed for that now!
<daftykins> :D
<oerheks> but you must buy a new one, hurry
<tomreyn> oh right, the new windows 10 is out, need to upgrade hardware
<oerheks> heh, i am still working on a vista machine
<tomreyn> or gnome.shell for that matter
<daftykins> what do you mean 'new 10' ?
<tomreyn> i'm trolling, but wasn't there some new sub-version release lately?
<daftykins> no 1909 was the last, long time now
<daftykins> maybe March/April for a next, but i haven't heard a peep
<tomreyn> ah well 1909 apparently released in november, not that long ago
<daftykins> sometimes feels like it in this line of work :D
<daftykins> oerheks: what's the Vista machine doing? :)
<oerheks> sticker is removed, now a big ubuntu sticker/patch
<oerheks> silly i3, running LTS+HWE
<Kireji> I just found my ubuntu instance using curl to access motd, and reporting in the user agent string the distribution,details of the hardware platform and cpu and the current uptime.
<Kireji> not happy :(
<Kireji> imo, it's an egregious privacy violation, one that I never consented to
<daftykins> chin up, there are more important things in life
<Kireji> code: https://www.pastiebin.com/5e30ac25cc099
<tomreyn> hmm i wasn't aware it send this much, that's ugly indeed.
<Kireji> IE
<Kireji> curl/7.58.0-2ubuntu3.8 Ubuntu/18.04.3/LTS GNU/Linux/4.15.0-74-generic/x86_64
<Kireji> Intel(R)/Xeon(R)/CPU/E3-1270/v6/@/3.80GHz
<Kireji> uptime/1702729.26/13617744.16 cloud_id/unknown
<Kireji> it needs to get fixed
<daftykins> ooh out of date kernel there :) -76 today
<Kireji> "there are more important things in life"
<daftykins> yep
<tomreyn> Kireji: fwiw you can opt-out by editing /etc/default/motd-news
<Kireji> tomreyn: done first
<Kireji> it's about 10y too late tho
<Kireji> *sigh*
<tomreyn> this was only introduced a few years ago, though
<daftykins> the facts don't matter when there's sensationalism to enjoy, tomreyn ;)
<tomreyn> it's more than that imo, there's clearly no need to send all these details, and it's not part of the announced and (semi) gui opt-outable telemetry collection
<tomreyn> and it's in violation of GDPR
<daftykins> maybe so for GDPR, i can't recall if there's a prompt about that during server install - as i was thinking of server with that complaint
<tomreyn> and some of these details are the kind of info gchq and spooks would ask you to store about your users if you wanted to make them happy and they wanted to be able to have a central go-to to get data for their targetted attacks.
<tomreyn> motd news is on both servers and desktops, i think
<daftykins> but any related prompts during installation is what i mean
<tomreyn> i don't recall such prompts on servers, there is a prompt on gnome-shell which is shown as part of gnome-initial-configuration
<tomreyn> sarnold: do you happen to have an opinion on this?
<tomreyn> (and one that you feel like voicing)
<tomreyn> (and i don't want uk to leave in almost all other aspects)
<oerheks> if motd is an issue, how about updates/server, apt-transport-https, dns, time sync ..
<tomreyn> the unique machine id isn't transferred, that's true.
<tomreyn> (not in this context anyways.)
<sarnold> tomreyn: I know that we find it useful to have rough ideas of which releases people are running on which processors; the uptime is helpful for spotting customers "stressing" clouds, where they'll boot one million or two million ubuntu instances in an afternoon every day for a week
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-29
<tomreyn> intresting. it still feels wrong to me as a non user exposed default, though.
<daftykins> yeah, should be known up front - i wouldn't want half the MOTD content if i had a choice from the outset if i'm honest
<lotuspsychje_> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje_> if hggdh is still awake, he uses weechat too lordievader
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaaa... no 18.04.4 yet :(
<daftykins> next month
<daftykins> also, it's only a number... unless you want the HWE kernel
<marcoagpinto> the what?
<marcoagpinto> [11:23] <tomreyn> 18.04.4 point-release coming up shortly
<marcoagpinto> this was yesterday or in the day before
<marcoagpinto> so, I thought that "shortly" was a few hours
<daftykins> wrong
<guntbert_> !19.04 is <reply> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) was the 30th release of Ubuntu, support ended January 2020. see !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2020-January/005263.html
<hggdh> !19.04
<ubot5> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) was the 30th release of Ubuntu, supported ended January 2020. see !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2020-January/005263.html
<guntbert_> "supported ended" ...
<hggdh> guntbert_: corrected, thank you
<guntbert_> hggdh: You're welcome, thx for fixing it
<daftykins> totally off topic, anyone know if a Prolific PL2303 USB to serial adapter is likely to be able to speak TTL so i can hook it up to the UART pins on a netgear switch and flash its' bricked self?
<daftykins> looks like it's normally a completely different device with header pins instead of breaking out to serial
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-30
<tomreyn> daftykins: use a raspi (or similar SOC) and its gpio pins if you have
<tomreyn> and, yes, i guess "shortly" was much an exaggeration
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<sarnold> hey lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> morning sarnold
<cybertruck2077> Hi guys, I'm writing Linux this semester
<sarnold> kernel module?
<cybertruck2077> anyone know a good resource for Bash shell flashcards?
<sarnold> or something else?
<cybertruck2077> Prescribed book is Linux Bible - 9th Edition
<sarnold> I use this every few days https://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/refcards.html
<cybertruck2077> Thank you!
<sarnold> but this is probably more useful https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ
<lotuspsychje> cybertruck2077: whats it gonna be about exactly
<cybertruck2077> The book has Fedora as a focus, but I've noticed Ubuntu is very similar, also Gnome, Bash, etc
<lotuspsychje> cybertruck2077: wich class are you in?
<cybertruck2077> Operating Systems Practice
<sarnold> there's things that are very similar and things that are very different ;)
<cybertruck2077> lol, thanks
<lotuspsychje> cybertruck2077: so your book is making a journey through different Oses?
<sarnold> so when something odesn't seem to work out right, ask around, someone may know what needs to change; the packaging is hugely different, but after that a lot is similar
<cybertruck2077> 2nd year (This semester) covers the first 12 chapters of the book, 3rd year covers the second half
<sarnold> time for me to bail, have fun :)
<lotuspsychje> nite nite sarnold
<cybertruck2077> lotuspsychje: it seems to cover the RHCE path
<cybertruck2077> sarnold: thanks for the links!
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<daftykins> tomreyn: hrmm i'd have to work out a way to get an OS on it that's enough to handle loading the firmware back onto the switch, i already have a USB to TTL on the way for Â£6.66 so i'll just be patient i suppose!
<tomreyn> yes, this sounds easier then.
<daftykins> appreciate the idea though :D
<tomreyn> and i appreciate your (indirectly) pormpting me to read https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/110478/difference-between-uart-and-rs-232
<daftykins> :D
<marcoagpinto> Guys?! Hello!
<marcoagpinto> it is the cola demon!
<daftykins> oh nooooo
<marcoagpinto> I have been optimising code and revising my thesis
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I revised the abstract both in Portuguese and English
<daftykins> might have a shot at 2029 completion then?
<marcoagpinto> well, I was hoping this year
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> but the supervisors are very demanding
<marcoagpinto> they pick on every little detail
<marcoagpinto> also, I have been revising per bits (small parts) which I send to the cosupervisor for review
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> after the small parts are approved, I will move to bigger ones
<lordievader> <marcoagpinto "they pick on every little detail"> That is what they are paided for...
<marcoagpinto> lordievader: No one is paying them, they are doing it for free
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> but they will earn $$$$ with the software
<marcoagpinto> I have been optimising the software too
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: They were referencing FDE and I assumed it meant full disk enc in the literal sense
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: Though I have seen postings where encryption of the Ubuntu/Linux partition lead to issues with Windows
<lotuspsychje> !info adwaita-qt eoan
<ubot5> adwaita-qt (source: adwaita-qt): Qt 5 port of GNOMEâs Adwaita theme. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.0-1 (eoan), package size 207 kB, installed size 808 kB
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: for this user it may not make a difference after all, i should probably just held back. ;-)
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... that was the other thing... average user probably only needs home directory... safer and easier ;-)
<tomreyn> no, no, i would say they do want dmcrypt-luks. but the installer automation is not capable of it.
<tomreyn> i just mean i should probably not have gone into the details, it wonn't help in the end.
<tomreyn> file system encryption is really not a good choice if you have other options
<pragmaticenigma> true
<tomreyn> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/filesystems/fscrypt.html discusses the threat model
<hggdh> tomreyn: it seems tail -f does not quite work with redirection
<hggdh> (IDK why)
<hggdh> but tail -f whatever | tee works
<tomreyn> hggdh: oh? i wasn't aware.
<hggdh> tomreyn: neither was I until I tried a few minutes ago :-)
<hggdh> and it is surprising
<hggdh> I am going to try current upstream's git head
<tomreyn> probably some systemd side effect ;-)
<chowder> tomreyn: another point that I'd like to make is that a lot of people coming to the ubuntu channel don't necessarily have a knowledge of IRC etiquette
<tomreyn> chowder: so as #ubuntu cleary states on the channel topic, the channel is about *ubuntu* *support*. i pointed this out to rapha in what i felt was a kind way (after they apparently ignored the topic already)
<tomreyn> rapha was not using ubuntu, was aksing about something unrelated.
<chowder> I get where you're coming from but I think it could have been phrased differently. I understand that you felt you were kind but it didn't sound that way. Offtopic chatter is annoying but Ubuntu is still a Linux distro and we should, as Linux users, try to be more supportive.
<tomreyn> chowder: i'm happy to be supportive, when things are on topic
<chowder> This is a better way: "Hi, Rapha, welcome to the Ubuntu channel. I see that you're asking about something unrelated to Ubuntu. We're happy to help in any way that we can but we have to try and keep any discussions on-topic."
<tomreyn> chowder: and when they aren't, i'm happy to point that out.
<chowder> tomreyn: Have you ever worked in a position that was customer facing?
<tomreyn> sure, but this is not commercial support, we're volunteers
<tomreyn> do this felt impolite to you?
<tomreyn> <ubottu> rapha: then please move: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please register with NickServ (see /msg ubottu !register) and use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<chowder> tomreyn: sorry, I got knocked off. You're right. That was polite and the user was probably being overly sensitive.
<chowder> I guess I'm also overly sensitive because when I started using Linux it was a cesspool of people telling anyone interested in Linux to RTFM
<daftykins> unfortunately you were being the other end of the spectrum, there
<tomreyn> pointing to man pages doesn't seem wrong to me (if they aren't bad), but it should still be done after summing things up at least for less advanced users IMO.
<chowder> I mean the "RTFM mentality". There's nothing wrong with referring someone to the man page but sometimes new users need a bit more help. Man pages are very technical for most people that only want to use a single command for one thing
<chowder> daftykins: you're right. either extreme is no good
<leftyfb> If a user is asking how to list permissions of a file using ls, then pointing them to the man page (instructions) on how to do so is more valuable than just giving them the answer.
<daftykins> tell you what though, this raises a good point... over the last 15 years it's been common to link people to the communities available for different distros, but nobody has gone and checked if those are still alive and kicking - that might well be worthwhile
<tomreyn> i do agree about !google though
<tomreyn> !google
<ubot5> While Google is useful for helpers, many newer users don't have the google-fu yet. Please don't tell people to "google it" when they ask a question.
<tomreyn> anyways, i'm glad we're roughly on the same page, chowder
<daftykins> (i remember question askers sometimes bouncing back and saying so-and-so channel was empty/dead)
<leftyfb> tomreyn: as for google, if it's a fairly simple query and the exact answer to their question is at the top of the first page, I'll give them the link to the answer and tell them the search phrase I used on google to find it
<chowder> that's a good example of where that works, daftykins, but if user wanted to find a single term in a list of items what is more constructive telling them how to grep it or sending them to the grep man page and expecting them to learn regex?
<chowder> Its tricky because then people get used to being spoonfed but if you don't spoonfeed anyone at all then you come off as an elitist
<tomreyn> leftyfb: i guess that's a good approach sometimes, since it's empowering.
<leftyfb> tomreyn: Can you come up with a time that isn't a good approach?
<daftykins> still remember identifying a CentOS user lying about their system in order to get help
<leftyfb> daftykins: that happens quite often
<daftykins> "how did you know!?" - the [] around the shell prompt :D
<leftyfb> mainly Ubuntu forks
<leftyfb> or Debian "But Ubuntu is based on Debian!"
<daftykins> those are the worst
<tomreyn> leftyfb: i don't like the idea of promoting the use of the specific (web) search engine "google", i refer to "(web) search engines" rather. which also means i can't be sure which results the user will see (actually that's also true for google since results matter by geo location, user preferences).
<leftyfb> oh look :)
<daftykins> something happen?
<leftyfb> an example of me typing the persons exact error message into google and it coming back with a explanation and a fix on the first result
<leftyfb> sort of :)
<tomreyn> leftyfb: i agree this was a good example of explaining how it helps to search the web for error messages before asking volunteer support
<daftykins> they're usually too selfish to care :(
<leftyfb> ok, I gotta go do real work for a bit :)
<daftykins> sounds risky
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-31
<nCoV_fren> Hola
<nCoV_fren> Testing an IRC terminal client with a new username. Can anyone see this?
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<marcoagpinto> hello!
<marcoagpinto> lotus psychic!
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> hey marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> I went to bed at 6am last night
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I was at the computer drinking cola and working on software
<lotuspsychje> software?
<marcoagpinto> yes, the PhD tool
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I was able to gain 2-4 seconds in the simulation
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> I was so angry... so much work for a couple of seconds
<lotuspsychje> News from phoronix: NVIDIA Retiring Their Pre-Fermi "340 Series" Legacy Linux Graphics Driver <http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-Retires-G8x-GT2xx>
 * tomreyn grabs the trash bin
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://destinationlinux.org/episode-154/ :p
<tomreyn> do they write it as "Cannonical" on purpose?
<lotuspsychje> not sure
<tomreyn> the apple prediction lacks "and people will continue to rush to their shops"
<lotuspsychje> once an apple fan :p
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: did you link this because of the wayland / nvidia "prediction" (which i think really just states the current (and last years') facts)?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: no i was curious about what predictions on linux were out there for 20.04, hoping to find server facts too but..
<tomreyn> or in response to me ranting in -server? or something else?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<tomreyn> i think 20.04.3 will have a good new server installer with working autoinstall.
<tomreyn> well, let's be conservative, 75% working
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> this is why im helping bug out 20.04 early tomreyn
<lotuspsychje> to avoid a lot of stuff in advance
<tomreyn> can't file bugs against software that's not implemented yet, though
<lotuspsychje> true
 * tomreyn head -> desk
 * oerheks desk > head
<tomreyn> hopefully so!
<tomreyn> thanks for !dist-upgrade, oerheks, i couldn't find it.
<oerheks> lets wait for the sÌ¶eÌ¶nÌ¶aÌ¶tÌ¶eÌ¶ Ì¶iÌ¶mÌ¶pÌ¶eÌ¶aÌ¶cÌ¶hÌ¶mÌ¶eÌ¶nÌ¶tÌ¶ Ì¶vÌ¶oÌ¶tÌ¶iÌ¶nÌ¶gÌ¶ dist-upgrade
 * tomreyn has a hunch it must be the weekend
<daftykins> trolls in?
<sarnold> oerheks: what'd you do for strikethrough? :)
<oerheks> sarnold, https://saijogeorge.com/strikethrough-text-generator/
<sarnold> oerheks: oh! I hadn't considered that, I figured it was like ^V or ^B etc :)
<sarnold> I wondered what I didn't know.. I didn't know it wasn't the 90s any more :)
<oerheks> i found no way to do this in hexchat itself :-(
<ducasse> sarnold: in weechat i think it's ^b ^something
<marcoagpinto> guys?!
<marcoagpinto> GTK4 is comming
<marcoagpinto> will it be available on 18.04 too?
<sarnold> you may enjoy https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/comment-page-1/
<oerheks> no.
<marcoagpinto> what?
<oerheks> and i think, if released, not in 20.04 LTS too
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> 3 months for 20.04
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I am counting the days
<daftykins> nah too early
<marcoagpinto> daftykins!
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> the nice Android app to check if SD CARDS are real doesn't work with Android 7+
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> a few videos show it working... but the official page says that it doesn't work with newer androids
<marcoagpinto> sarnold: so, it will come with Ubuntu in two years :)
<marcoagpinto> a stable GTK 4
<marcoagpinto> ready for 22.04 LTS
<marcoagpinto> :p
<daftykins> gnome *snore*
<marcoagpinto> daftykins!!!! >:)
<marcoagpinto> I am a little cola demon
<daftykins> umm ok
<marcoagpinto> https://youtu.be/iI71AcBwM5c <- metal is eternal
<marcoagpinto> :p
<sarnold> marcoagpinto: maybe? :) hehe
<marcoagpinto> sarnold: what?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<sarnold> marcoagpinto: knowing the gnome folks the gtk 4 stuff might be "old and deprecated" by then
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> who would know
<marcoagpinto> :p
<tomreyn> i found the photo of the BoF / "round table" to be quite explanatory  https://blog.gtk.org/2019/08/29/gtk-bof-at-guadec/
<marcoagpinto> guys?! I have to go! Must do some stuff before hitting the bed for work tomorrow afternoon... take care
<marcoagpinto> :)
<tomreyn> bye bye
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-01
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<tomreyn> kxsl: i don't want to promote those services in #ubuntu myself, and think it's not the right place, won't do it here either but if you have genuine questions (and don't just mean to point out potnetial problems) i'm happy to tell the little i know about it
<kxsl> fair enough
<kxsl> im not in a position to use it commercially myself, im just curious as the topic came up
<tomreyn> developing and maintaining kernel live patches involves a lot of manual work by experienced folks, which is why no one (to my knowledge) offers it free of charge
<tomreyn> canonoical offers this free usage tier though
<tomreyn> which can be nice if you want some level of additional protection during the time before you can orderly reboot a system
<tomreyn> there are other companies offering similar for ubuntu and other distros
<tomreyn> kxsl: ^ did you want to know anything else?
<kxsl> thanks, that's ok. ill look for the technical details later
<tomreyn> "kernel live patching" would be the genrric term / (partially) underlying technology.
<tomreyn> also kpatch, ksplice amongst other
<tomreyn> * kernelcare
<tomreyn> those last two are product names, i think
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-02
<mcseccne1> test?
<ducasse> not here either
<mcseccne1> then where
<mcseccne1> im new to weechat and trying to figure it out
<mcseccne1> all I wanted to do was insure im in the room
<mcseccne1> sorry
<Bashing-om> mcseccne1: We can read you ... and there is the #test channel :)
<mcseccne1> ah thank you bashing-om i had not found that one yet
<Bashing-om> !alis | mcseccne1
<ubot5> mcseccne1: Alis is an IRC service to help you find channels. For help on using it, see "/msg Alis help list" or ask in #freenode. Example usage: "/msg Alis list http"
<mcseccne1> thank you im new to irc and weechat but i love the fact that it is command line but there is small learning curve ...thank you for the input i was unaware of !alias as this is second day and was only aware of ubuntu irc channel list so thank you so much!
<Bashing-om> mcseccne1: If you run 'buntu - we are here to help. :)
<mcseccne1> well thats what I thought I am running ubuntu server 18.04 with no graphic interface so...im learning
<mcseccne1> just excited about it all i thought this is where i could talk about that
<Bashing-om> mcseccne1: Welcome to the light :P
<mcseccne1> smile bigtime!!
<mcseccne1> thank you!
<ducasse> mcseccne1: if you run weechat, you should run it under tmux or screen so you can keep it running and connect/disconnect at will
<mcseccne1> i tried to use tmux today but i need to learn alot more about it i could not really do what i wanted ....so i figure i need to learn more about it i installed it and initially installed to split windows but for some reason it was not working for me so i moved on to getting inn the channel with weechat
<mcseccne1> i want to learn tmux more but it all takes time...
<ducasse> there are plenty of cheat sheets with keyboard bindings online
<mcseccne1> maybe the key is keyboard bindings seemed almost like the keys they said did not work for instance ctrl b ' did not split window and didnt seem like it was reading keys right now that you say that
<Bashing-om> mcseccne1: ^^ best moved to #ubuntu support channel.
<ducasse> mcseccne1: also this - https://tmuxcheatsheet.com/
<mcseccne1> thank you
<ducasse> mcseccne1: there are cheat sheets for weechat too, of course
<mcseccne1> yes still very basic with weechat..I have managed to be able to login and now change buffers etc but ive seen some pretty screenshots and different things even the remote interface all intrest me but not there just yet
<ducasse> something like glowing bear is easy to set up if you want a gui
<mcseccne1> no thats just it....i want the command line i do have a ubuntu destop but it is the command line stuff that grips me so im gonna stick it out
<ducasse> you might still want to run x11 to get more terminals on screen and a browser if you need one
<mcseccne1> I work as network engineer and work with cisco command line alot this is so much more powerful eventually i plan to have my server be a full fledge router with open source software!!
<Bashing-om> !terminal | mcseccne1
<ubot5> mcseccne1: The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. In Unity or GNOME, search the dash for "terminal" and press ENTER. Other desktops: Applications -> System Tools -> Terminal (MATE), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<mcseccne1> ive heard of the x11 and typed that at my command line but got errors  .was reluctant to install whats needed as i dont want to cripple myself not sure what xll give me i know its minimal but i viewed it as a crutch..is that correct thinking ?
<mcseccne1> ill have to make a VM and check it out with x11
<Bashing-om> mcseccne1: The GUI is a tool - some things are done easier in that GUI environment.
<ducasse> x11 is just a display server, you also need a window manager or a desktop environment
<mcseccne1> so x11 alone will not work?
<ducasse> it will just give you a grey screen with an x for a cursor
<mcseccne1> dont really want to make my server a decktop?
<ducasse> then don't :)
<mcseccne1> what do you mean run x11 to get more terminals and browser? i guess it will allow me to have more than the main screen? can I only install x11 and accomplish that or do i need desktop with that?
<mcseccne1> ah sorry should have read more ill check out window managers
<ducasse> you can install just a window manager, that will give you a basic gui and let you run x11 clients
<mcseccne1> @ ducasse thank you much you have given me enough to stay busy a day or two ive chosen xmonad as a window manager
<ducasse> mcseccne1: i also recommend i3
<mcseccne1> actually that was number 1 but it said for advanced users so...maybe i will look at it again
<ducasse> just check out the user guide, it's very very good and has a cutout with keyboard shortcuts
<ducasse> add rofi and you'll have a nice, keyboard-driven gu
<ducasse> *gui
<mcseccne1> ah thanks again
<ducasse> besides, xmonad is probably harder, since you need haskell knowledge to get much use out of it
<mcseccne1> yes i was going to attempt tomorrow as i saw needed effort to configure
<mcseccne1> i will give i3 a go
<mcseccne1> i like the multi monitor
<mcseccne1> i would like to e able to scrap desktop all together this looks as if i may be able to do that and use a server full time
<ducasse> i use a server install with i3 as my main desktop
<ducasse> with 3 monitors, i3 has great multiscreen handling
<mcseccne1> now your talking!!!
<mcseccne1> do i just install rofi or add it from i3
<ducasse> just install it, it's in the repos
<ducasse> then add something like this to your i3 config:
<ducasse> bindsym $mod+q exec "rofi -i -show"
<ducasse> then you launch rofi by pressing mod+q
<lotuspsychje> https://www.deviantart.com/sylviaritter/art/Focal-Fossa-828503863
<mcseccne1> Ducasse i have i3 working with xterm is this ok or is there a better choice? also can I run chromium like this or do i need to go with headless chromium because of the lack of graphics?
