#ubuntu-learning 2009-08-10
<doctormo> hey
<Buuntu> what are meetings about?
<Buuntu> does someone teach?
<doctormo> Buuntu: No, that would be a class, a meeting is for organisational administration. Since this group is new, there is much to do internally to make it a stable basis for education.
<doctormo> pleia2: Are we getting to the time?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> cprofitt, Vantrax, meeing in 2 minutes :)
<pleia2> doctormo: #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhizazen> guess I missed the meeting, sorry
<bodhizazen> internet problems
<doctormo> bodhizazen: It's still going on
<cprofitt> it started at 8pm
<pleia2> bodhizazen: backlog: http://princessleia.com/temp/learning.txt
<bodhizazen> thanks for the linky pleia2
<pleia2> np
<Raidsong> sometime soon im going to order 100 ubuntu discs and give them out at best buy
<bodhizazen> do you want me to invite the BT members here to discuss learning ?
<pleia2> bodhizazen: sure :)
<pleia2> and we now have green-light to add people to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<pleia2> so long as they 1) introduce themselves 2) signed CoC
<pleia2> we should toss together a page saying this, or a note on the front page of wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<pleia2> but right now it's 9PM here and I haven't had dinner
 * pleia2 goes hunting
<bodhizazen> welcome
<bodhizazen> we just finished a meeting of the UCLP and we feel we have the basic structure in place now
<bodhizazen> so we are looking to recruit and also for ideas suggestions
<bodhizazen> It is 7 PM and I am exhausted from skiing
<cprofitt> sorry everyone... grandmother called and it was important
<pleia2> cprofitt: no problem :)
<duanedesign> bodhizazen: what tasks are you recruiting for?
<bodhizazen> all of them =)
<bodhizazen> lol
<duanedesign> :)
<bodhizazen> basically we are ready to start adding content
<bodhizazen> so we need authors and teachers
<duanedesign> what skills will be required
<duanedesign> much of a learning curve to input information into Moodle
<bodhizazen> we are all on the same page with moodle duanedesign
<bodhizazen> perhaps we need a moodle session on how to moodle =)
<doctormo> pleia2: ok back
<doctormo> pleia2: sorry about that, conflicting things came up and I tried to shuffle things.
<pleia2> doctormo: no problem, I'm a bit tied up at the moment though (getting a crash course in networking over VC, hurrah!)
<doctormo> bodhizazen: that's not a perhaps, that's going to be a requirement
<doctormo> pleia2: Heh, did you read the networking section of my course? :-D
<doctormo> duanedesign: Hey there, I've already begun to make courses.
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, but it was all review for me, getting into higher level stuff now and I've had a hard time with some of the concepts
<pleia2> luckily my boyfriend is a network engineer at google :)
<pleia2> and happy to teach!
<pleia2> so I get to pick the brain of the best
<pleia2> hehe
<duanedesign> doctormo: i was mainly wondering if contributing to the Moodle project was going to be like contributing o Ubuntu Docs where you had to learn DoBook
<duanedesign> s/DoBook/DocBook
<pleia2> duanedesign: well, we need brains writing courses, if it comes down to it I think we can get moodle experts loading up the stuff in moodle
<pleia2> right now we're looking for content, lesson plans
<duanedesign> ahh, ok
<doctormo> pleia2: Can your boyfriend donate some time to the project writing some of this up?
<doctormo> duanedesign: My current work is all PDFs on my blog.
<pleia2> doctormo: unfortunately not, too busy :( but I'll transfer what *I* learn to courses as applicable, hehe
<duanedesign> doctormo: do you have a link to your blog?
<doctormo> duanedesign: sure, http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/
<duanedesign> doctormo: thank you :)
<doctormo> pleia2: Shame, currently I'm not trained or exercised in the art of networking or systems administration beyond a jounor level, so I'm writing this course based on the idea that I know I'll get it worng :-P
<pleia2> doctormo: I might be able to convince him to review some of it
 * pleia2 schemes
<cprofitt> night all
<doctormo> pleia2: Scheme away, peer review is just as important and we want the quality of the courses to be high, as well as the clarity and ease of use.
<Raidsong> if you need somebody with powers of Noob i can be a guinea pig for any things you need read
<pleia2> Raidsong: good to know! that will be helpful too :)
<doctormo> Raidsong: sure, read up on the first 4 chapters linked at the bottom of this page: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/ and see if you can understand them.
<Raidsong> ok im going to read them now
<Raidsong> i like the annoyed penguin at the top
<doctormo> Raidsong: That's my blog :-D
<Raidsong> i take you are a teacher
<pleia2> that's an interesting question, doctormo - did you go to college/university?
<doctormo> pleia2: No, I went to technical college when I was 12, night courses. Failed UK secondary education with only 1 GCSE Maths C grade at 16 and then went on to get a job as a programmer.
<doctormo> Been a programmer ever since.
<doctormo> It's rather a lucky career of learning on the job :-D
<pleia2> doctormo: fascinating that you and I are working on these course (I don't have a degree either)
<pleia2> courses
<doctormo> It's ironic that I'm teaching it too
<Raidsong> i wish i could afford any kind of college, yay for self taught people
<doctormo> Raidsong: My technical college was free to people who's parents both didn't work. Yay for poverty.
<Raidsong> lucky you
<doctormo> Raidsong: It's the UK
<Raidsong> here a 4 year college costs more then a house
<Raidsong> for the cost of college i could quite literally buy a house that has 6 bedrooms 3 baths
<Raidsong> and a two car garage
<pleia2> Raidsong: hah, pretty much :) that's how my ex-husband and I were homeowners by the time I was 22, neither of us were to college, both of us work in IT
<pleia2> so instead of paying back loans, we had a home
<Raidsong> and if you buy in just the right neighborhood you also have a community pool and tennis court in the subdivision
<Raidsong> after some help from a friend over seas its cheaper to hire a private tutor and learn german then move over seas and go to college
<Raidsong> the courses don't seem incomprehensible, but not easy
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-learning to: Ubuntu Community Learning Project | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning | Next Meeting: Monday August 17th @ 8pm EDT (00:00 UTC August 18th) | Support in #ubuntu
<doctormo> pleia2: The link on the wiki leads to a website that is completly blank, I thought we had a moodle site half skinned.
<doctormo> with some basic content
<pleia2> it's not completely blank for me
<pleia2> it has 3 courses
<doctormo> hmm, last time I looked it had my header branding, now there is nothing
<pleia2> are you thinking of the test version?
<pleia2> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<doctormo> I guess
<doctormo> I just didn't think our front facing site was so bad (branding wise)
<pleia2> yeah, it's pretty basic
<oly562> i can't ping a wireless printer server. it's ip is 192...104/24 and my ip is .90. simple network, used to work, but after loading 9.04 i can not ping it anymore from this wireless nic. my gw is standard, .1/24 and my nic is intel running wicd. UFW is off, and all other computers wired can ping that device and access it. there are no restrictions on the print server yet. Any suggestions?
<oly562> i can't ping a wireless printer server. it's ip is 192...104/24 and my ip is .90. simple network, used to work, but after loading 9.04 i can not ping it anymore from this wireless nic. my gw is standard, .1/24 and my nic is intel running wicd. UFW is off, and all other computers wired can ping that device and access it. there are no restrictions on the print server yet. I switched from 8.04 LTS to 9.0 and i just noticed this h
<pleia2> oly562: this is not a support channel, try #ubuntu
<pleia2> oly562: and please don't repeat your line like that anyway :)
<oly562> are you guys windoze users? wtf is going on,, im a FSF type user... where is the respect
<pleia2> oly562: there is really no need to swear at us
<pleia2> oly562: I'm just trying to direct you to the appropriate channel for help :) this is not it
<oly562> how do i ping a print server?
<pleia2> same way you'd ping anything else
<oly562> yes
<oly562> of course
<oly562> its puzzleing
<doctormo> pleia2: Wow, can't a sister get some respect from the wtf crowd
<pleia2> no :)
#ubuntu-learning 2009-08-11
<doctormo> Busy day today, lots to do, including the sys-admin section "Processes, Services and Daemons" with your friend, Apache2
#ubuntu-learning 2009-08-12
<person> can someone answer my question at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7771436#post7771436
<Buuntu> when do you guys have teaching sessions?
<Buuntu> could i get a link to a calendar or something?
<Buuntu> anyone there?
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<Buuntu> when do you guys have teaching sessions?
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, <Buuntu> could i get a link to a calendar or something?
<bodhi_zazen> in classroom ?
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, i thought you guys had like meetings where someone would teach on here
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, is that what classroom is?
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<bodhi_zazen> irc sessions in #ubuntu-classroom
<bodhi_zazen> is that what you are asking about ?
<bodhi_zazen> I am trying to encourage some of the BT members to run irc sessions
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, yeah that's exactly what i was looking for, thanks
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, i heard they were biweekly though?  guess not...
<Raidsong> when is the next class?
<Buuntu> Raidsong, it says on the site 20 Aug @ 18:00 UTC
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, also did you guys happen to keep some of the log files for the classrooms?
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<bodhi_zazen> are there likns to logs on the page I gave you ?
<bodhi_zazen> otherwise they are here
<bodhi_zazen> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<bodhi_zazen> by date , then select the channel (in this case classroom)
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, thanks :D
<bodhi_zazen> np
#ubuntu-learning 2009-08-14
<BiosElement> doctormo, Already here. I can be sneaky like that. >.>
<doctormo> BiosElement: Welcome, or re welcome, delete as apply
<doctormo> pleia2: hey, you may be interested in this
<BiosElement> haha, Just Welcome. First time I've been in here. Was reading through some of the wiki docs/Mailing archive.
<doctormo> cool
<pleia2> doctormo: hm?
<doctormo> I haven't seen artv61 before here either,
 * doctormo waves
<pleia2> doctormo: oh yeah, you mangled my nick a bit in your post :)
<pleia2> (or your spellchecker mangled it)
<doctormo> pleia2: If you have a few moments going spare, I'd like to walk through course creation so far as I do it, and then we can merge brains on the subject and see if it's the best method.
<doctormo> pleia2: Sorry about that,
<pleia2> doctormo: cool, I have time now :)
<pleia2> no problem, just thought I'd point it out
 * doctormo has just fixed the blog entry
<doctormo> OK, so right now what I do is I take a look at the structures and suggestions outlines by the general public's input on each of the pages, for instance for the sys-admin course I look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
<doctormo> I then break that down, prune it and produce a list of major topics to cover over a set period of weeks. I decided the inital sys-admin course would be 10 weeks and I've pruned anything else for extra classes to be added later.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> primarily this is something you do yourself, touching base with peers on IRC for suggestions?
<doctormo> Each week when I come to a class, I take the suggested sub topics from that same page (of any) and I do research (if required) on various parts. I copy over the lesson plan odf and write an outline of the presentation section and a general outline of the practical section, then a list of materials required.
<doctormo> pleia2: So far, no peers. The input from the topics wiki page should be a good grounding point for what the community is looking for. Peer review is most useful when there is something solid in front of the reviewer.
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> The lesson plan document will most likely change over the time of the writing
<doctormo> I then set about writing the over view document, copying it in from the previous week and writing out descriptions of each section. I also draw up a list of diagrams that will be required for the document.
<doctormo> This then gives you a good way to think about if each section in turn is making assumptions about the students prior exposure to the subject and making sure the sections are ordered correctly.
<doctormo> It also helps if all basics and concepts required are covered in previous classes. Build upon it etc.
<pleia2> cool
<doctormo> Each header in the overview is taken from the lesson plan, if things change, the lesson plan document should be changed too.
<doctormo> I then set about writing the practical document, once again copying over the odf and then copy in the lesson plan section, writing each header's contents, trying to make the tasks introductory at first and then leading into the dificult. The idea is to explain to students that they can be challenged, but also that they can find practice at their level.
<doctormo> There can be a homework section, I've been setting remaining work as homework
<doctormo> All students in my class are _required_ to operate an Ubuntu computer that they are administrators of.
<doctormo> at home
<pleia2> for the sysadmin course specifically?
<pleia2> and do you find having strict requirements helps?
<doctormo> It's up to the planning of the course what the requirements are
<doctormo> Yes
<pleia2> good to know
<doctormo> Requirements help the student understand what will be expected of them. If I say "You will need an Ubuntu computer (already installed) and know how to use the desktop." and they don't, then I can't distract the rest of the students in the class while I try and teach or fix the problem.
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> I also set a fixed class, I'm trying to make sure all students come to all classes, make sure they have links to all documents and have reminders to show up in person.
<doctormo> So far, retention has been very high (130%) (some people joined late) :-P
<doctormo> Ok back tot he show
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> this all sounds very reasonable
<doctormo> OK I now make sure the revision and modification dates in each ODF footer is set correctly (today's date and 01)
<doctormo> And I take out the list of drawings for the overview and draw each one in inkscape, it's acceptable to sumit the list to a peered artist of the group (such as myself), I insert into the odf each drawing at the required points.
<pleia2> good thing, I'm useless with artwork :)
<doctormo> Each svg is converted to png before it's inserted, just to make sure things are readable and so on.
<doctormo> Now is the time to get the documents saved as PDF files (all three) and get them uploaded somewhere so you can get peer review.
<doctormo> A good way will be to send a message to the contributors mailing list with a standard prefix for the subject line.
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> Peer reviewing should be considered just as an important job as the writing. Peer reviewers should be rewarded if possible with credits of some kind.
<doctormo> 3 brains are good.
<pleia2> hmm, I think we should probably be doing this on the mailing list
<pleia2> I see your posts on the planet, but it'd be good for everyone on the mailing list to get links
<doctormo> I then take a look at the remaining materials for the class and I divide them up into two sections, "creative-materials" and "classroom prep". Creative materials are things like the cheet sheet and the identifying ports sheets. These are there to help the student with references and such that will be helpful in the class.
<pleia2> right now the mailing list is pretty multi-purpose, I'd like to see meeting announcements, peer review, ideas and things all put there for now - plus it will give us a nice indicator of how much traffic there will be so we can split into LP mailing lists at a later date
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> welcome sagaci
<sagaci> hi
<doctormo> Classroom prep goes into setup for the event. Enough time has to be given to find and set up all classroom materials. For instance the Local Computer section required access to computers for students to take apart and put back together.
<doctormo> hey sagaci
 * BiosElement waves to sagaci
<sagaci> so when do you think this will get underway
<doctormo> Each of the creative materials are converted into pdf files in what ever way possible, it's important to retain all sources (svg/odf...) and submit those as CC-BY-SA too, we should require that.
<doctormo> sagaci: It's underway
<doctormo> sagaci: We are in the midst of creating courses.
<sagaci> will it be time based or open for anyone to start at anytime
<pleia2> I'm not sure how moodle works, I'm wondering whether we want to track all of this in Moodle or start using bzr in launchpad for all these materials
<pleia2> a mix of both, probably
<pleia2> sagaci: anyone can start contributing at any time :)
<doctormo> pleia2: We need to talk more with other board members, but my thoughts are more towards sources in bzr with tracking and access (so people can create branches and dirivitives easy) and then we use moodle as the publish platform (not the development platofrm)
<pleia2> doctormo: good plan :)
<doctormo> sagaci: Depends, if you want to contribute to the creation and development of course materials, then this is the time and place for you. If you want to learn from a class, then you need to set up a class with your LoCo or ask the Ubuntu Classrooms team about set courses (can you confirm this is the right advice?)
<pleia2> doctormo: that's correct
<sagaci> so it's not online?
<pleia2> sagaci: you are interested in taking the classes?
<doctormo> pleia2: With that organisation of development tools vs publishing tools, it'll be much easier to identify the current revision of offically team published courses. Vs, any old derivitive created by others and push on us.
<sagaci> yes, i'm also interested in learning about moodle itself, being a content management system, since I'm doing ICT units at uni
<pleia2> doctormo: absolutely
<pleia2> sagaci: currently up on our Moodle site we have a Moodle course w/ videos: http://learn.ufbt.net/
<doctormo> sagaci: Then it may be worthwhile joining in with the creation process, you may have to put in a bit of work, but you'll learn a ton.
<BiosElement> sagaci, Would a "using moodle" course be in need then?
<doctormo> BiosElement: This is my thought for you, if you don't mind me presumpting a bit...
<sagaci> yeah, i'm at the end of the month as far as bandwidth goes, so i'll check that out soon
<pleia2> sagaci: you can log in with your launchpad openid login (can use https://launchpad.net/~your-launchpad-name)
<sagaci> i wouldn't be able to create too much stuff straight off the bat, but i'd prefer just looking at the materials, even if they are in a primitive state
<pleia2> to the moodle site
<doctormo> BiosElement: What I'm trying in here is the basic outline of the crafting section of the "how to contribute" course. A section will be for moodle publishing and a section for bzr branching for development. We'll build up a set of materials to teach course creation to others...
<doctormo>  /trying/typing/
<doctormo> BiosElement: I'd be extatic if your first act was to formalise these notes into a section class as described in the notes (kind of helps learning too :-D)
<doctormo>  /extatic/very, very happy/
<BiosElement> haha, Aight.
<doctormo> So, one of the sections (but not this "course creation" one) will be "Teaching a physical class"
<pleia2> cool
<doctormo> Also worth putting in, "Before you begin, you will be required to release your works as Creative Commons, Share Alike, Attribution if you wish for your course to be included in the published set of offical unoffical ubuntu learning materials"
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> So be sure that you accept these upload restrictions. If your creating a dirivitive work, then you will be required to release as CC-BY-SA anyway.
<BiosElement> Aye, Make sure you stress that point. Just to prevent confusion.
<doctormo> BiosElement: So the first thing is creating a list of sections, would you like me to begin it?
<doctormo> BiosElement: That point should be at the start! :-D
<BiosElement> And middle, and bottom. >.>
<BiosElement> And sure.
<pleia2> yay :)
<doctormo> BiosElement: So, want to make a wiki page of topics to cover and we can get you started? would you like me to mentor you on this for a while?
<doctormo> pleia2: Now on to you :-D
<pleia2> doctormo: task assignment? hehe
<doctormo> Sorry if it looks like I'm taking charge, sometimes tis only way. let me know if you disagree and I will normally conceed quickly.
<pleia2> want me to get rolling on Desktop stuff?
<BiosElement> Someone has to take charge. >.>
<pleia2> doctormo: oh no, it works fine for me
<doctormo> pleia2: Right, but I want to just go through with you how I teach it
<pleia2> ok, sounds good
<BiosElement> Ahh, I'm sure you've got a grasp on some version of the "bigger picture" so until I can claim to have a better one have at it. ^_^ And sure you can make the page and yeah that would be helpful.
<doctormo> Ok so the first section is called "The Introduction and Familarisation" section, it's the one we teach the most. In fact we teach it every week to all the many people that get given Ubuntu machiens from the community center, or get it installed when their Windows goes on the fritz and we convince them Ubuntu is awesome.
<doctormo> BiosElement: I will expect your peer review of the page and your editing of it with your own ideas, don't forget we got sub headers. So for now just copy down what I wrote above and try and place it logically into sections.
<BiosElement> That's the plan.
<doctormo> full steam ahead
 * doctormo pulls the ships horn
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> ok, I'm going to try to get my bit started tomorrow evening, I'll let you know if I have any questions about your process
<doctormo> pleia2: OK so this section goes like this: "This is Ubuntu", "What is Ubuntu", "Desktop Introduction", "How does this make money", "Where can I get it and how much", "Where can I buy a machine" (optional) and "What do I need to be aware of"
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> This is Ubuntu: Show students desktop, helps if you have one comptuer per student. This part is quick and a very physical act, so not really good for an irc classroom.
<doctormo> What is Ubuntu: Ubuntu is an operating system like Windows or Mac that is very new, it's fast, has all the applications such as internet, word processor, speadsheets, music and video. It can't get viruses because of the speed of fixes and the craftmanship of the system, and it's free.
<pleia2> doctormo: sorry - this is your outline for the first desktop thing you teach?
<doctormo> pleia2: yes
<pleia2> ok, gotcha
<doctormo> Desktop Introduction: This is split into each sub section and is a practical exercise (so students are expected to follow along with the teacher's actions), "Applications Menu", "Add Remove Programs", "
<doctormo> ...
 * pleia2 reviewing wiki page too
<doctormo> "Places Menu" (explaining that it's where are your documents are), "Opening Home Folder (nautilus)", "Navigate around, open up some examples", "close any open windows", "System Menu, preferences only effect you as a user and Administration effects the whole computer", "Each user should have a user account, don't share passwords",...
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> "Quick Links (sometimes we add and remove quicklinks showing that they are synonimous with application menu applications)", Networking pannel, selecting wifi networks and knowing when your online, volume control, date and time with calendar, show them how to add a "location" to get the weather and how to set between two different locations.
<sagaci> will this target a certain version of ubuntu be generalised
<sagaci> or*
<doctormo> sagaci: It'll have to change as required, I teach this from memory.
<pleia2> good question, doctormo - do you use LTS?
<BiosElement> FYI I think it may be a good idea to leave the "Sub-Sub Section bits for their own page to whoever is writing up the first course.
<doctormo> We teach 9.04 now, but last week we taught LTS. The problem was that some of the user switcher know how was out of date.
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> BiosElement: Those sub-sub sections are headers for the one overview document.
 * doctormo is sorry for dumping all this knowlege on you guys all at once :-D
<BiosElement> haha, I know it's cool. I just think it'll make things more confusing in the long run. Though I may be wrong.
<sagaci> i think that's the problem with published books, by the time they are released and in bookstores (at least around me) another version has superseded that one and the next one is one it's way
<doctormo> pleia2: After the date/time, we show user switching and explain (but not show) shutting down menus.
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> sagaci: The idea is that this is a development, community based material. So we have bzr branches and such to be updated as required. We could branch at each release or indeed package it up for desktop access :-P
<BiosElement> doctormo, I love you. >.> I've been nagging people for months to start a desktop wiki-ish help doc and been laughed at >.>
<doctormo> BiosElement: It might, but the topics section is how the outline is defined for a whole course, given that I've given the community time to add their thoughts about what topics are worth going over.
<doctormo> The topics in the wiki become very roughly after MUCH editing, the lesson plan as described in the above notes.
<BiosElement> Aye, I agree.
<sagaci> i think you'd have to be fairly proactive and push the idea at beta and RC time for karmic, at least have a working model from the jaunty idea and update it swiftly for karmic
<doctormo> pleia2: After shutdown, we breifly describe the bottom bar, desktop button, task list, we don't have a way to show notifications, but we would if we could. We then show the virtual desktop, getting students to load up apps and then switch desktops. We then load the updater to show how to do updates and put that on a different desktop. Breifly noting the trash can icon.
<pleia2> sounds good
<doctormo> sagaci: Not required really, most of the know how of most of these lessons will modify by the degree of human API changes (i.e. UI modifications) of the default install, and most of the concepts wouldn't change ever.
<doctormo> pleia2: This lesson normally takes 1 hour to teach to a group of 5 students.
<pleia2> doctormo: that's the whole thing?
<doctormo> there may be questions through out the practical part, answer them ad-hoc.
<sagaci> i guess it'd just be used from Pidgin > Empathy, and rhythmbox > banshee (if that happens)
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> pleia2: There are the last sections "How does this make money", "Where can I get it and how much", "Where can I buy a machine" (optional) and "What do I need to be aware of"
<pleia2> oh right
<pleia2> that's still the same 1 hour class?
<doctormo> Generally yes, depending on the speed of students it can over run by 20 mins. I'm fairly good at teaching this class now that I know I can describe everything.
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> How does this make money: Ubuntu is what is known as Free and Open Source Software. This is a different way to make software than how windows is made. Where tradtionally each copy of software that has already been made will cost money. But this software already exists and it costs us nothing to give you a copy of what already exists, what does cost us money is development, making things better and fixing problems and making new tools.
<doctormo> This is how we are paid for the work we do, most of the money comes from large companies that want these improvements, and you get those improvements for free. You can of course put your own money in, if you want something new. But most desktop users are happy with what already exists.
<pleia2> good stuff
<doctormo> (this part needed to be written because people would ask "but why is it free, will it expire etc etc"
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> Where can I get it and how much: You can take a CD from me, or you can download it from the website, or I can help you install it at next week's session. Ir's all free.
<doctormo> Where can I buy a machine: You can get a machine that comes with Ubuntu from HP, Dell, ZaReason and System76. Each are differently priced (proffer website addresses)
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> What do I need to be aware of: You can't run all windows programs in Ubuntu, some you can get working, but most software is provided from the repository and there are alternatives to most software. Games sometimes have Ubuntu versions (sometimes labeled as Linux) and most games will work under wine, we can help you set that up if you need to. There is a community of people who can help you if you get into trouble (we have Tuesday
<doctormo> nights, every week as our community outreach support) and you can bring in your computer on that night and get help, there are paid for personal support from some of our members and they can come round to your house and fix any problems.
<doctormo> Be aware that some printers don't work, Lexmarks. All HP printers will work, so if you have one of those, it should just work when you plug it in.
<doctormo> Let us know if your having trouble finding software or hardware that works.
<pleia2> great list
<BiosElement> Yeah
<doctormo> Note to Teacher: We never, ever mention Linux, Gnu or any of the tech, this is bad branding. We explain when asked that Linux is the kernel and is used in many devices, tomtom navs, tivos and google phones, it's not useful to use "Linux" as a name because what will work on Ubuntu will not work on any of those devices.
<doctormo> It breeds only confusion and also calls forth any and all bad experences with Linux people or previous Linux distrobutions. We don't need that kind of headache.
 * pleia2 nods
<BiosElement> I'll be back for a few minutes later. Off to grab some food >.>
<doctormo> So, Ubuntu != Linux, Ubuntu contains Linux, but also many other things. Ubuntu is the operating system, Linux is the memory, task and hardware manager aka Kernel. :-D
<pleia2> gotcha
<doctormo> OK, so now I'm all done. any questions on this impromtue double irc class room experence?
<pleia2> not at the moment, but I'm sure I will once I've processed it further :)
<doctormo> pleia2: Have I helped you with your own possible classes? do some of the elements seem to missing from your current go at it?
<pleia2> doctormo: this sounds perfect for our classes actually
<doctormo> BiosElement: Oh, oh, i forgot to mention "Teach the class once it's made" you need to be able to teach any class you make.
<doctormo> pleia2: Now you may post a blog entry to inflate my narcasistic ego :-D
<pleia2> heheh
<pleia2> doctormo: so, shall my first task be to put *this* one into useable classroom-teaching format like you've done for the server classes?
<pleia2> I'll certainly need to do it for myself to use it
<doctormo> pleia2: Yep
<pleia2> great
<doctormo> pleia2: That's why I started with notes on how to make a class/course section, and called you in. So you didn't have to wait on BiosElement
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> I won't get much done this weekend since I somehow got the idea into my head that it would be fun to road trip down to New Orleans and fly home Sunday night
<pleia2> (a friend is moving, he asked for company on the ride down, 20 hours!)
<doctormo> pleia2: OK, do you want me to also mentor you on this? (i.e. prod every so often)
<pleia2> doctormo: if it's not too much trouble, I think that would help (I'm pretty good at managing my time, but I do have a lot going on)
<doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics <- pleia2, you are now arber and executor of this page :-)
 * pleia2 applies hat
<doctormo> pleia2: Sure, it has helped me to commit my time to making the course sections, simply because I know I have to teach it. Each one takes about a week to make (about 5 to 10 hours total) and you can come to me for art.
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> thanks doctormo :)
<doctormo> Getting a deadline can help some people, would it help you? I can commit to teaching from your course on my tuesday class in 3 weeks time if that helps?
 * pleia2 peers at calendar
<pleia2> sept 1st?
<doctormo> pleia2: sounds good
<doctormo> pleia2: sorry for the delay, been editing wiki
<pleia2> doctormo: ok, shooting for sept 1st :)
<pleia2> hmm, you have to actually use it on sept 1st
<pleia2> so deadline would be sooner, maybe that's not enough time (erg, darn busy weekends this and next!)
<doctormo> BiosElement: Are you back yet?
<BiosElement> For just a few yeah.
<doctormo> pleia2: It's a challange, I will expect to use it, but I have a fall back (i.e. my brain) you can try and do as much as you can and we'll settle it into peer review mode. But any more weeks and it'll get into long tail of time.
<doctormo> pleia2: Most people can make time here and there with the challenge, that's the point of the deadline.
<doctormo> BiosElement: I just HEAVILY edited the teaching topics page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics, if you agree to go forth, then you can select the "Creating a Class" section and create it as already agreed.
<BiosElement> Aight
<doctormo> BiosElement: Do edit the page with updated thoughts etc, and if the course is good and your time is allowing you to be activly proceeding, as mentor I'll submit to the board to elect you for the post of manning that course.
<pleia2> doctormo: alright, is Aug 30th delivery date soon enough to use on Sept 1st?
<doctormo> Sound reasonable? (if you want the job that is, after you've got the first course)
<doctormo> pleia2: 31st is grand, post it to your blog, or email the mailing list.
<BiosElement> haha, Yeah. Sounds fine by me.
<pleia2> doctormo: ok :) added deadline to my calendar!
<doctormo> pleia2: Awesome, I feel like a community manager already, jono would be pleased :-P
<pleia2> hehe
<doctormo> pleia2: We'll do the same thing with you, if the course is good, as mentor, I'll submit you to the board lol.
<pleia2> doctormo: alrighty! ;)
 * doctormo thinks that he should mention that pleia2 is on the board :-D
 * BiosElement thinks he already noticed that somewhere :P
<pleia2> I suppose I'll abstain from voting for myself
<pleia2> but, you know, squeezing my ego in here with doctormo's is challenging
<doctormo> pleia2: It's possible, although since I just apointed myself mentor, it's not too problematic. hopefully no toes will be damaged by me striking out with this.
<pleia2> hehe
<doctormo> pleia2: We'll have room for egos when everyone's gone through the basic classes. You know boredandblogging is very interested in me creating a "how to lead a loco" class?
<pleia2> doctormo: is he really, or are you voluntelling him?
<pleia2> he's been doing some great loco promotion research lately
<doctormo> pleia2: Perhaps that's because I suggested that he do it? :-P
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> man, it'll suck when you get a job
<doctormo> No, I suggested that a good idea to get more locos active is to get a structured lesson in place.
 * pleia2 puts a dollar in the "support doctormo fund"
<pleia2> ah, gotcha
<doctormo> pleia2: I'm looking into grants, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to get community funding, if there was enough support for it. I do a lot of work (or at least it's taking up a lot of time) and this week I had to take a manual labour job with a guy that will only hire MIT students, the money is more proof to my wife that I'm not a lay-about, while she and my savings pays for everything.
<doctormo> I get the odd pay from fixing the odd computer, but my record this year for 6 months looks like my old per day wage. :-(
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> So it's important for sure, in fact I wanted to bring that up... (goes over to correct channel)
<ziroday> Hi all, I've been lurking for a bit but haven't really been following. At what stage is the project at currently, and what can I do with my (limited) skills to help?
<ziroday> nevermind, caught up on the planet :)
<jingddd> 1231
#ubuntu-learning 2009-08-15
<doctormo> How are people today? good?
<pleia2> good good, you?
<bodhi_zazen> not bad
<bodhi_zazen> I am working on an outline for a course for new users
<bodhi_zazen> re: installing Ubuntu
<bodhi_zazen> a few links and general info re wubi, desktop, alternate CD
<bodhi_zazen> root, installing stuff
<bodhi_zazen> linky to wiki to fill in details
<doctormo> pleia2: thanks for the great comment
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: Did you see any of the notes I posted to BiosElement yesterday?
<pleia2> doctormo: sure thing, I'm afraid that argument is raised often within debian
<pleia2> I still contribute to debian, but ugh, I don't interact with the community much for fear of being yelled at
<bodhi_zazen> no doctormo
<bodhi_zazen> where ?
<doctormo> pleia2: The problem with some computer people is that they think that everyone should conform to the same inhuman human interactions. Rudeness isn't considered a problem because it excuses one's own rudeness.
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, I think that's certainly part of the problem
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: I may point you to the logs, or to BiosElement, depending on where he's at with processing all those notes. Basically I laid out how I'm making courses, step by step and development
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: We were talking about splitting the process, so development is done via bzr and publication is done by moodle via an opinioned or elected chief editor.
<bodhi_zazen> nice
<bodhi_zazen> you should consider putting that info on a wiki page
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<bodhi_zazen> easier to contribute to, easier to edit, and easier to read then irc logs
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: It's going to be a course, just like all the others :-D
<bodhi_zazen> I am sure the process will be a FAQ
<doctormo> That was why I noted it all down to BiosElement
<bodhi_zazen> who or what is BiosElement ?
<doctormo> A user in this irc channel
 * doctormo points to users list
<doctormo> He's a new person, enthusastic to be writing some core "how to teach" classes.
<doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics <- this is the topics page. I figured that we can make development and contributation easier by treating it like a class.
<bodhi_zazen> I will have to look at that later => dinner time
<sagaci> Straight into the Ubuntu Desktop topics, one of the first ideas in the contents is "Introduction to the Command Line"... is this necessary in the Desktop/Beginner course, and even if it is, would it be better introducing it later (toward the end of the table of contents)?
<bodhi_zazen> I think a basic introduction is necessary yes
<bodhi_zazen> this might be as simple as how to open a terminal and an explanation of what bash is
<bodhi_zazen> Perhaps how to get help / man pages
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sure avoiding the command line is such a good idea
<bodhi_zazen> but I do not think we need to go into detailed shell scripting =)
<sagaci> yeah, maybe we have different ideas of what desktop means but I think we should be avoiding the cli in this course, or at least until the basis of the GUI apps have been demonstrated.
<bodhi_zazen> Opening a terminal is a gui and is a faq on the forums
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think the cli is to be avoided at all costs and in my experience it is best to show / teach both a gui and cli solution to an issue or problem
<bodhi_zazen> that way the cli is not hidden or make separate
<bodhi_zazen> The way you suggest, avoiding the cli at all costs, and then trying to teach the cli in some kind o mega session has not worked so well for me
<bodhi_zazen> You kind of need something to do with the cli
<bodhi_zazen> so it is better to include a little information on the cli in every session
<bodhi_zazen> IMO
<qq88888> å¤§å®¶å¥½
<sagaci> well i guess people who think cli will slow them down / unnecessary can just skip it temporarily
<doctormo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-learning-materials
<pleia2> doctormo: bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(lp-45207824:///~doctormo/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport
<pleia2> when I try to commit, now it is possible I'm doing something wrong since I am a bit of a bzr newbie :)
<pleia2> anyway, I'm off for the weekend
 * pleia2 roadtrip
<doctormo> pleia2: lol, just giving that a quick go before the weekend :-)
<albasheers> hello everyone
<doctormo> hey albasheers
#ubuntu-learning 2009-08-16
<cdn> Hi
<ngduo> is there anyone on here now?
<ngduo> Can someone direct me to what room I should be in for newbie help for ubuntu, just downloaded it and can't seem to find my way to help I am having trouble installing drivers
<doctormo> I'm here
<ngduo> wow
<ngduo>  i was ignored completely in 2 other rooms
<doctormo> The best room to go to is #ubuntu
<ngduo> how do I get to it I looked on that monster list
<ngduo> can I type it in somewhere
<doctormo> Can you plick on it with the mouse?
<doctormo> ngduo: I'm messaged you rpivately, can you see it?
<cprofitt> ngduo, you can also go to #ubuntu-beginners-help
<cprofitt> not as crazy as #ubuntu
<doctormo> cprofitt: Hey there
<cprofitt> hey doctormo
<doctormo> cprofitt: God what a week, too busy to even think. How is NY?
<cprofitt> NY is ok... I am busy... sorry for not responding
<cprofitt> wife's b-day
<oligo> alias
<oligo> oops, forgot the / char :s
#ubuntu-learning 2015-08-10
<pleia2> o/
<ahoneybun> o/ lol
<ahoneybun> pleia2: still kicking?
<pleia2> mhmm
<ahoneybun> you should check the page
<ahoneybun> not the best
<ahoneybun> but better I think
<pleia2> oh, that's nice :)
<ahoneybun> :)
<ahoneybun> some reason it is not updating 2 of them
<ahoneybun> the top banner and develop
<ahoneybun> at least for me
<pleia2> maybe caching issues
<ahoneybun> yea
<ahoneybun> I've deleted and restarted but same thing
<pleia2> top banner shows for me, but not maintain or teach
<pleia2> so it is caching, we're seeing different ones :
<pleia2> :)
<ahoneybun> yea I changed the icon for the top banner
<ahoneybun> but it is using the old one
<ahoneybun> the one from the top banner was better for the desktop
<pleia2> ah, yeah, probably just caching weirdness, I'd wait until morning and do a hard refresh on the browser
<ahoneybun> so there is no problem just making changes in the text or what?
<pleia2> shouldn't be a problem with text
<ahoneybun> ok
<ahoneybun> some links are for 9.10
<ahoneybun> damn
<pleia2> :)
<ahoneybun> major clean up
<pleia2> might want to hop on the mailing list and mention you're doing work too
<pleia2> not sure if you'll get any reponses, but I know some people are still lurking
<ahoneybun> yay more MLs XD
<ahoneybun> pleia2: lots of changes on the Desktop Course
<jose> YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
<jose> we're helping bring this back to live?
<jose> life*
#ubuntu-learning 2015-08-11
<ahoneybun> jose: the Materials thing?
#ubuntu-learning 2015-08-12
<ahoneybun> jose: seems you loved the idea
<jose> old project
<ahoneybun> yea ture
<ahoneybun> *true
<jose> wanted to have something when I was at high school
<ahoneybun> oh
<jose> turns out they didn't even want to include foss on the subjects
<jose> now I'm at university
<ahoneybun> yea I see
