#ubuntu-arb 2012-03-12
<highvoltage> good morning
<highvoltage> are there any ARB votes outstanding?
<stgraber> I don't think so, the graphic lens has been published last week
<ajmitch> highvoltage: no, are there any apps you've been looking at lately that are close?
<highvoltage> ajmitch: I was just catching up on emails the last week and making sure that there isn't anything particular that needs attention before marking them as read
<ajmitch> ok, will try & get something for you to vote on then :)
<ajmitch> stgraber: for postinst/postrm in apps, how much of that is not allowed, when it's just standard commands like update-mime-database, update-desktop-database, etc?
<stgraber> ajmitch: if it's auto-generated I'm usually fine with it (as we need that for apparmor anyway)
<ajmitch> it's not added in the #DEBHELPEr# part, but looks to be boilerplate from elsewhere
<ajmitch> I don't think it'll hurt anything, I thought you might know better than I if we had something disallowing it :)
<stgraber> I seem to remember some documentation explicitly saying that maintainer scripts aren't allowed
<stgraber> but we accepted auto-generated ones so far and can probably do an exception for boiler plates one
<ajmitch> right, that's what I thought
<ajmitch> if that's the case, them I might put harmonyseq up for you to check & vote on
<ajmitch> also tagplayer. I found where I was going wrong with patching it ;)
<ajmitch> stgraber: david pitkin said you'd been discussing bugs in the developer portal?
 * ajmitch was just asking him about some of the bugs regarding needs info states, he said to sync up with you
<stgraber> well, I haven't talked to these guys in over a month ;)
<ajmitch> right, so his idea of 'recent' is a bit blurry ;)
<stgraber> yeah ;)
<stgraber> my last discussion with him was on what's acceptable for the ARB and led to our current guidelines wiki page
<ajmitch> right
 * ajmitch was just asking him about bugs that have sat without comments & which are sort of important
#ubuntu-arb 2012-03-14
<wendar> mhall119: Mark Tully's music scopes have been updated to use Unity 5 (the version in precise) in his bzr branches, do you know if he wants to submit them for Oneiric or Precise?
<ajmitch> precise
<ajmitch> I don't see unity 5 being backported to oneiric
<ajmitch> since the API's not compatible, there'd be no point submitting the packages for oneiric, I think
<wendar> agreed, I just wasn't sure if he wanted to get an older version of his scopes into Oneiric, or go full steam ahead with the latest code for precise
<wendar> If Oneiric, then it'd be the first thing I work on next
<wendar> If Precise, then we need the precise pocket open before we can launch it
<wendar> if it's all the same for him, I'd suggest going ahead with precise
<wendar> since Oneiric isn't an LTS, most people are going to upgrade
<wendar> yeah, the original code he submitted was compatible with oneiric
<wendar> it's more of an efficiency thing
<wendar> (with apps I don't mind packaging them for oneiric now, since I imagine the code will update to precise with little work)
<ajmitch> you could ask him about it, I guess :)
<wendar> mhall119: and if not that one, are there any other lenses or scopes from your list that you want to get through before we move on to precise ones?
<wendar> ajmitch: I'll do that too
<mhall119> wendar: there may be a prior version that is for oneiric that we can use for that
<mhall119> wendar: which graphic design scopes were submitted?
<wendar> mhall119: yeah, it's really a question of what the author wants. I'm happy to do either oneiric or precise at this point, but oneiric won't be around much longer so may not be worth the effort.
<mhall119> well it'll be around for a year still
<wendar> mhall119: 4 graphic design scopes were published, for ColourLovers, Dribbble, Iconfinder, and DeviantArt
<wendar> mhall119: aye, but if we need work done, will he want to do it for oneiric?
<mhall119> wendar: that I don't know
<mhall119> wendar: did the book lens get into USC for Oneiric?
<wendar> mhall119: I haven't seen it submitted, is it ready to go?
<mhall119> According to my spreadsheet it is
<mhall119> it's davidcalle's though
<mhall119> not mine
<wendar> do you want to ping him? or would you like me to?
<wendar> If the code is ready to go, we could get it up in a week.
<mhall119> wendar: that would be great, I can ping him tomorrow (He's in Spain, IIRC, so pretty late for him)
<wendar> mhall119: okay, great!
<mhall119> he also has a photos lens and scopes that would be a good candidate to go
<wendar> sounds good
<mhall119> wendar: I'll let you know tomorrow, or just have him start submitting whatever he has ready for Oneiric
<wendar> I'd like to get Oneiric scopes pushed through as quickly as possible
<wendar> so they have time out in the public eye before people start upgrading to Precise
<mhall119> me too, if we can get through all of the Oneiric ones before we open it up for Precise, that would be fantastic
<ajmitch> how many are there?
<wendar> ajmitch: only 4 music scopes in the ARB queue
<wendar> ajmitch: but mhall119 has a list of oneiric and precise lenses/scopes in a spreadsheet
<wendar> ajmitch: in various stages of completion, so I don't have a quick count of how many could be published soon in Oneiric
<wendar> ajmitch: I'd guess fewer than 5
<wendar> (that is, fewer than 5 source packages managed by the ARB, with maybe 4 individual scopes/lenses in each)
<ajmitch> alright
 * ajmitch just had an idea for another lens last night, but has a few too many other things to do right now :)
<wendar> I know the feeling :)
<ajmitch> I need to get ARB stuff out of the way before I start anything new, I think
<ajmitch> the queue still has a few old entries to be looked at
<wendar> ajmitch: aye, and I'm still not sure we're getting old apps back in the queue once the developer responds to our questions
<wendar> ajmitch: which makes me less inclined to bump them quickly back to the developer for changes
<ajmitch> I don't think we are, i emailed David Pitkin & he said he'd get those bugs looked at
<wendar> ajmitch: cool
<wendar> ajmitch: one quick one you could do is rejecting TerraView
<wendar> ajmitch: it's enormous
<ajmitch> yeah, I should do
<ajmitch> that's one we'd talked about & I was going to point them to the debian GIS team
<wendar> ajmitch: yup, that's a good idea
<mhall119> wendar: I have 11 "ready", but some won't be getting submitted
<wendar> mhall119: okay, makes sense
<mhall119> most notably the porn lens and piratebay torrent scope
<wendar> mhall119: ah, yeah, we already talked about the porn lens
<wendar> mhall119: and, yeah, I think we'd have to skip the piratebay one too
<mhall119> yeah
<ajmitch> are there lenses written at the moment that authenticate to a webservice?
<wendar> ajmitch: not that I've seen
<wendar> ajmitch: it'd be possible, but they the Unity Lens interface wouldn't provide any way to enter credentials, so the app would have to do that separately
<wendar> ajmitch: maybe with a simple "configuration" app that ships with the Lens
<ajmitch> wendar: I've seen suggestions to use gnome-online-accounts
<ajmitch> which helps for storing them, I haven't looked at it for getting the initial auth tokens
<wendar> ajmitch: yeah, it makes sense to use an established piece for storing credentials
<ajmitch> wendar: my grand idea last night was for a trello lens, since we're using it a bit for organising pycon :)
<wendar> ajmitch: ah, that could be quite cool
<ajmitch> yes, I just have to actually do it, after my other obligations
 * ajmitch will push tagplayer & harmonyseq for voting tonight if possible
<mhall119> wendar: ping
<wendar> mhall119: pong
<mhall119> wendar: could you do me a favor and email or ping me when a scope or lens makes it to the software center?  I'd like to promote them once they land
<wendar> mhall119: sure
<mhall119> thanks
<ajmitch> wendar: just looking at LEDS now...
<ajmitch> looks simple enough, the author was considerate enough to even put comments in both spanish & english :)
<ajmitch> however a test build failed in pbuilder:
<ajmitch>    dh_auto_clean
<ajmitch> Traceback (most recent call last):
<ajmitch>   File "setup.py", line 4, in <module>
<ajmitch>     from DistUtilsExtra.command import *
<ajmitch> ImportError: No module named DistUtilsExtra.command
<wendar> I pushed an update to the ppa
<wendar> not to the repo yet
<ajmitch> ah right :)
<wendar> pushed now, update your checkout
<ajmitch> great, that build-depends looks better
<ajmitch> wendar: sorry, got distracted by -motu - it builds fine now, all files look to be in the right place
<ajmitch> application UI could do with a lot of HIG love, but I'll +1 this, will reply on mailing list :)
<wendar> ajmitch: so, I sent out LEO-Compiler with a "request for more information" and it popped back up in the list when the author replied
<wendar> ajmitch: that means the comment/response bit is working, at least in the general case
<wendar> ajmitch: but, it hasn't been working for LEDs
<ajmitch> right, that part works, but does the state change in the myapps queue?
<ajmitch> hm, intresting
<wendar> ajmitch: so maybe there's something specific about that app
<ajmitch> I've pushed harmonyseq to the staging PPA & ot my branch
<ajmitch> s/ot/to/
<wendar> ajmitch: well, the LEDs problem was that it didn't reappear in the queue at all
<ajmitch> LEO compiler reappeared?
<wendar> ah, cool (on harmonyseq)
<wendar> yup, LEO compiler just popped back into the queue when they replied
<ajmitch> yeah, one thing I'm not entirely sure on is whether I can use an .svg for XB-Icon in debian/control
<wendar> it has to be a .png
<ajmitch> ok
<stgraber> so far, we assumed that wouldn't work :) best to go with .png indeed
<wendar> I tried .svg too, it didn't work and stgraber told me only .png works
<ajmitch> there's no 64x64 png, sadly
<stgraber> oh, ok, then we KNOW it doesn't work ;)
<wendar> not even in the MyApps pages?
<ajmitch> knowing my luck, there will be there :)
<ajmitch> and there is, I'll use that... :)
<ajmitch> silly me, I used the screenshot from there
<wendar> yeah, I've done that several times too, only realized as an afterthought that there already was a .png in the MyApps submission
<ajmitch> tagplayer has a 64x64 icon there & a screenshot, I just need to use a different tarball that what I was building with, so the patches applie (or I use a native package)
<ajmitch> so I'll finish that tonight, sorry I've taken so long with it
<wendar> ajmitch: great!
<wendar> should I refresh the review shifts?
<wendar> i.e. are people finding it useful to have a scheduled time?
<wendar> I haven't had any developers popping up during the shift, so it's more a matter of personal value to the reviewers
<ajmitch> wendar: I haven't been sticking to mine very well
<ajmitch> though that's probably more due to my time management than anything
<wendar> well, I kind of figure the value of the review shifts is all in whether it's a help for time management
<wendar> if they don't actually help with time management, and just make volunteers feel guilty for not doing the shift, then they're not valuable :)
<wendar> making volunteer activities fun is the magic silver bullet
<ajmitch> yeah, it is, and also the hardest thing to do sometimes :)
<wendar> yup :)
#ubuntu-arb 2012-03-15
<mhall119> wendar: ajmitch: stgraber: ping
<mhall119> Someone on G+ is asking for some clarification about what his package should put in /opt/
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/108728447943307421833/posts
<mhall119> can one of you give him an answer, of give me the answer and I'll give it to him
<mhall119> http://paste.ubuntu.com/884992/ is you can't see that
<stgraber> mhall119: in most cases, it's simply everything except the .desktop file
<stgraber> mhall119: we also now allow /usr/share/doc/<packagename> but it's debhelper's default anyway so I don't think I ever saw someone actually put them in /opt (we always had to do it for them)
<mhall119> stgraber: so the binary goes in /opt/ too?
<mhall119> and the .desktop just points to it there?
<stgraber> mhall119: yes
<mhall119> stgraber: how about icons? Do they all go into /opt/ too, and if so does GTK know to find them there if you reference them by name instead of path?
<stgraber> mhall119: "everything" :)
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> thanks, I'll let him know
<stgraber> mhall119: you need to put the path in the .desktop for it to work
<mhall119> for Exec only, or Exec and Icon?
<stgraber> both
<stgraber> gtk doesn't know to look in /opt and we don't really want it to either
<stgraber> the whole idea behind using /opt is to avoid having any of them automatically found/loaded by the OS unless you're calling them by their path
<mhall119> ok
<wendar> mhall119: there are more details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines
<wendar> I forgot to ask about chairs for the next meeting at the end of last month's meeting
<wendar> (I've added it back into the end of the agenda, so I'll remember in the future)
<wendar> Anyone want to volunteer?
 * ajmitch checked next meeting date
<ajmitch> we're keeping it at the same UTC time?
<wendar> yeah, same time
<ajmitch> ok, I can do it then
<wendar> cool, thanks!
<ajmitch> next month I'll be back to UTC+12
<wendar> love those international daylight saving time shifts :)
<ajmitch> yeah, it's just great :)
<wendar> I recovered some lost action items
<ajmitch> oh, what'd we miss?
<wendar> apparently our "emergency" meeting in January wiped out several pending action items
<wendar> I had one to ask about the deprecation cycle for python-support
<ajmitch> ok, I did follow up with dpitkin at least :)
<wendar> (I've just emailed doko and barry to check in on that)
<wendar> lfaraone had one about python-support in Quickly
<wendar> actually, in python-distutils-extra, which Quickly uses
<wendar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-distutils-extra/+bug/894582
<ajmitch> I asked about #927588, #915902, #926032 to see if he'd prioritise getting those 3 fixed
<wendar> you had one about asking (someone, I'm not sure who) about ARB packages depending on backports
<wendar> but, I'm  pretty sure the answer to that one is "no"
<wendar> at least, if it came to a vote, I'd be against ARB packages depending on backports
<ajmitch> right, I asked broder & michag about the state of that, it's ok for runtime dependencies, but there's a LP bug that blocks build-dependencies
<wendar> ah, okay
<wendar> I remember, it was a question of whether it was even possible for ARB packages to depend on backports
<wendar> should we keep a note of that somewhere?
<ajmitch> right, but we mostly wanted it for the case of new libraries being added via backports, iirc
<wendar> yup
<ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/888665 is the LP bug, it's due to it using an ancient forked sbuild
<wendar> so, to say if it's safe, and non-disruptive, we could have an ARB depend on a backported library
<wendar> if it's a new library, and not an updated version of an existing library in the old release
<ajmitch> it'd just be hard to build against that library
<wendar> so, at this point we'd be stuck with runtime python libraries
<wendar> and no build-time C, etc libraries
<ajmitch> actually a new library would likely work
<ajmitch> since the PPA can have backports dependencies turned on, and the backports version would be the only version to satisfy the requirement, it ought to work :)
<wendar> i.e. it's hard to give a one-size-fits all answer
<ajmitch> yeah
<wendar> How about this addition to the ARB guidelines: right after "If your app depends on external libraries, please make sure that your app runs on the current versions shipped in Ubuntu."
<ajmitch> we do currently have "Applications must be able to be built with tools & libraries in the Ubuntu archive. Apps may bundle additional libraries they depend on, but may not include new versions of already packaged libraries."
<wendar> we add "(We're open to considering dependencies on backported libraries, on a case-by-case basis, only if the backport is a new library and not an updated version of an existing library.)
<ajmitch> ok
<wendar> that leaves it open for the devs to either bundle the library or backport it
<wendar> with the same effect, they can only depend on existing libraries, or a new library
<wendar> but not updated versions of existing libraries
<ajmitch> that's fair - no depending on a new version of Qt & boost :)
 * wendar shudders ;)
<ajmitch> it'd be nice to get the LP bug fixed, but it's not a simple fix that just anyone can pick up & do, I suspect
<ajmitch> wendar: so I didn't really get round to doing any ARB work last night (wasn't feeling great), but I've pushed the icon change I did yesterday to the staging PPA & my branch, if you have time to take a look
<ajmitch> once we vote on it I'll need to know the right buttons to push in myapps to get it published :)
<wendar> ajmitch: sure, I'll take a look
<ajmitch> thanks
<wendar> ajmitch: in override_dh_gencontrol, you do need to keep that cp line
<wendar> ajmitch: it's obtuse, but what that does is copy the image *outside* the package directory
<wendar> ajmitch: so it can be added to the package metadata
<wendar> (stgraber had to fix one of my earlier packages)
<ajmitch> right, that is a bit special
<ajmitch> but this is why I'm checking with you first, thanks :)
<ajmitch> it does mean I have to bump the ppa version again, which is a bit of a pain
<wendar> you can use $CURDIR
<wendar> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~allison/+junk/extras-framingham/revision/13
<ajmitch> in which case I ought to put it in the debian/directory as well
<wendar> I like the way you've used patches for all changes outside the debian/ directory
<wendar> in the debian/changelog, merge his changes and yours into one changelog entry (since there's only one Extras release)
<wendar> you can note who did what with [ Author Name ]
<wendar> and a quick scan of postinst and postrm, I wonder if they could be removed?
<wendar> we don't technically allow custom maintainer scripts, but this looks like standard desktop stuff
<wendar> probably automatically generated
<ajmitch> this is what I was checking with stgraber - they're boilerplate postinst/postrm
<wendar> with debhelper 8, a lot of stuff that used to be in generated maintainer scripts is now handled automatically behind the scenes
<ajmitch> yeah, I was debating whether they'd be needed at all due to the non-standard directories
<wendar> not sure that's the case with these specific pieces, but seems worth checking
<wendar> ah, yeah, I noticed one of the commands was acting on /usr/share/icons/gnome
<wendar> which we don't modify
<wendar> so, that one could certainly go
<wendar> the mime database is modifying /usr/share/mime, which we don't modify
<ajmitch> right, stripped out all but #DEBHELPER#
<wendar> let's see, update-desktop-database modifies the cache of MIME types handled by desktop files, so that can go too
<wendar> cool, yeah, makes sense
<wendar> ajmitch: overall, it looks great. I'd +1 it.
<ajmitch> good, it's nearly all cielak's work, so thank him for a good submission :)
<wendar> thanks, cielak!
<cielak> no problem, did my best to get it as good as I could ;)
<ajmitch> cielak: it does make our lives easier, I'll put this up for vote & we should be able to get it uploaded :)
<cielak> nice! thanks for handling that :)
 * ajmitch could really do with some more RAM, running a couple of VMs doesn't help when firefox & chrome are both open
<wendar> ajmitch: yeah, both firefox and chrome are total memory hogs, very annoying
<ajmitch> especially the way I use them, where I often can't see the icons on the chrome tabs because I have so many open :)
<ajmitch> wendar: just checking, you marked the next meeting as the 23rd rather than the 30th?
<wendar> ajmitch: well, that's what Ubuntu Fridge says
<wendar> ajmitch: but it could be wrong
<ajmitch> that seems a bit broken, it's meant to be the last friday of the month
<wendar> ajmitch: is it supposed to be... ah yea
<ajmitch> who sets up the fridge calendar entry?
<wendar> Fridge won't let me do anything more complicated than "3rd Friday"
<ajmitch> great :)
<wendar> anyone who has access can edit it
<ajmitch> it doesn't allow 5th friday?
<wendar> go ahead and update the wiki page
<wendar> I suspect it would just drop off the calendar when there is no 5th friday
<wendar> what we want is the -1th friday :)
<wendar> the 30th actually works better for me this month, I won't have to rush out after the meeting to drive to Seattle
 * ajmitch can see where to add an event, but it looks to only be editable by its creator, sorry :)
<wendar> ajmitch: I think I actually can't edit it anymore, I only had admin priviledges on my canonical google account, which is gone now
<wendar> ajmitch: but, I'll find someone else to edit it
<ajmitch> now that is a pain
<ajmitch> your membership application is coming up in a meeting today, isn't it?
<wendar> ah, yeah
<wendar> if I get membership I'll see about getting  calendar editing access again
<wendar> or, you or stgraber could get it
 * ajmitch shall try & be around at meeting time
<ajmitch> stgraber: thanks for looking at harmonySEQ - the postinst/postrm aren't empty unless debhelper is not putting anything in them - I thought that I'd leave in the #DEBHELPER# tags for now
<wendar> ajmitch: it's probably safe to remove them entirely
<wendar> ajmitch: I've been erring on the side of "rip it out" for ARB apps, just on the general principle of "they're supposed to be dumb and simple"
<ajmitch> fair enough
<ajmitch> I don't think there are any dh calls in the package at this time which put anything in postinst
 * ajmitch shall see if he can get it to ~ppa99 before it even makes it into extras
<ajmitch> I see you've got a couple of other testimonials from some well-known ubuntu contributors now
#ubuntu-arb 2012-03-16
<stgraber> wendar: now fix the fridge :P
<ajmitch> now apply to the DMB!
<ajmitch> since you're an exception to the 'every ARB member must be in ubuntu-dev' rule at the moment :)
<ajmitch> stgraber: just looking at your reply to my vote email, just changing myapps.developer.ubuntu.com to software-center.ubuntu.com looks to be valid, and I can keep the rest of the URL the same?
<ajmitch> i.e. https://software-center.ubuntu.com/site_media/screenshots/2012/01/hseq1_1.png will suffice?
<stgraber> yep
<ajmitch> ok
 * ajmitch just has to break the habit of spelling it 'centre'
<stgraber> ;)
<mhall119> wendar: do you know if OMG!Words! has been submitted through MyApps yet?
<wendar> mhall119: not that I've seen
<wendar> mhall119: it's not in the queue now
<ajmitch> that sounds like an interesting submission, who's it by?
<mhall119> ok, thanks
<wendar> okay, calendar for the next meeting is fixed
<wendar> if anyone wants edit access on the new entry, let me know your google account address and I'll add you as an invited guest with edit  privs
<ajmitch> wendar: ajmitch@gmail.com
<ajmitch> & thanks for fixing it :)
<wendar> ajmitch: added you with edit privs
<ajmitch> thank you
<wendar> (to April and onward, March is outside the repeating event, because it's the 5th Friday instead of the 4th friday)
<ajmitch> I see there was a 'Downloader' submission - that name's a bit generic
<wendar> ajmitch: yeah, might need to be bounced back for refinement
<wendar> ajmitch: I'm not getting any sound out of harmonyseq, but it might just be my sound settings or something
<ajmitch> it needs a midi synth to output to
<ajmitch> I used fluidsynth & hooked it up with aconnectgui
<wendar> ajmitch: ah, okay
 * ajmitch had made the screenshot url change & removed the postrm/postinst in the branch, haven't pushed that to the staging ppa though
<wendar> ajmitch: we can suggest some documentation on that, but it's a usability issue, not a code/security issue, so I'll give it a +1
<wendar> it's got a decent interface, familiar from other midi sequencers
<ajmitch> yeah, it seems quite nice, code looks clean as well
 * ajmitch has almost got flights sorted for UDS now
<ajmitch> though one option was dunedin->christchurch->sydney->san francisco :)
<stgraber> sounds complicated ;)
 * stgraber has montreal->san francisco, but well, I'm on the same continent :)
<ajmitch> stgraber: flying 3 hours west & then flying from australia to usa?
<ajmitch> it was < 1 euro cheaper than flying from auckland ;)
<ajmitch> so maybe I'll get in trouble for not picking the cheapest flights :)
<stgraber> I doubt that ;)
<stgraber> otherwise they'd hate me for taking the direct flight when I could have had 3 connections and maybe save $50 :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I think I did over 50% of my syncs to precise last night
<ajmitch> about 35 or so, until it was time for bed
#ubuntu-arb 2013-03-12
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<dpm> hi PaoloRotolo
<PaoloRotolo> hi dpm :)
#ubuntu-arb 2013-03-13
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
#ubuntu-arb 2013-03-16
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
