#ubuntu-meeting 2005-01-05
<zenwhen> computer repair
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-01-02
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<sorush20> hi guys
<MotherLUG> Morning All :D
<klepas> they ought to arrive shortly
<klepas> may i interest you with the agenda MotherLUG? :)
<MotherLUG> Yes please
<klepas> this is the appropriate email: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2005-December/000543.html
<klepas> and the list by artnay: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
<MotherLUG> Bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-01-03
<Viper550> Hello everyone, 40min to the meeting right?
<Riddell-awa> so the calendar says
<Viper550> If anyone needs UTC time, date -u at a command prompt
<Viper550> As we wait, let's take a poll on what IRC client we use...
<Viper550_waiting> Who's using IRSSI?
<Kyral> me...oh what meeting is this...
<Kyral> I'm just idling here so I glean a lot of info :D
<lukacu> i use xchat :P
<Kyral> I hope thats alright
<Kyral> me idling here
<Viper550_waiting> It's a waiting for the meeting meeting, really it's art team
* Viper550_waiting is looking for a good Konsole schema for the meeting...
* Viper550_waiting is also using IRSSI right now
<Kyral> Im using Irssi through a FreeNX session :D
<Viper550_waiting> Well, I'm at my local Ubuntu computer through Konsole
<Kyral> yah I have an issue with DNS on this (the machine I'm FreeNXing from)
<Kyral> so I'm like eh
<Kyral> connected the laptop to the router, installed FreeNX
<Kyral> and bam :D
<Viper550_waiting> Should I use Eterm for this?
<Seveas> Kyral, freenx is cool
<Kyral> Seveas: I know you showed me
<Seveas> too bad the latest version doesn't work :(
<Kyral> The one in that other guy's repo?
* Viper550_waiting goes to Eterm
<Seveas> the kanotix one
<Kyral> oh didn't touch that one
<Kyral> lol I should get a screenie of this
<Seveas> good, don't, it's failing on Ubuntu :)
<Kyral> Whatever version this is its all good on Dapper
<Kyral> on both ends
<Kyral> I hope my laptop doesn't burn out...
<Viper550> What is the best irssi theme for Eterm?
<Kyral> I dunno I always use the default Irssi theme
<Viper550> What about Fluxmod?
<Viper550> Perfect, Industrial!
* Viper550 playing around with Window management
<Viper550> Xchat is a bit better...
<Viper550> So, irssi or xchat? Which should I use?
<Viper550> Hey, ksirc, that looks neat!
<Viper550> Is ksirc any good?
<Viper550> Let's Chatting with ksirc, back in a sec!
<Viper550> This is pretty interesting, nice!
<Viper550> Anyone listening? I'm trying out Ksirc, which looks pretty nice!
* Kyral shrugs
<Viper550> Yes, I use KDE, but I'm not on Kubuntu, how can that be? Answer correctly and I'll give you a Virtual Cookie!
* Seveas steals the cookie
<Viper550> You can't steal virtual cookies, you have to be root to do that!
<lukacu> lol
<Viper550> sudo steal cookie -back
<Riddell> Viper550: you presumably don't use kdm
<Viper550> Oh yes I do!
<Viper550> This confusion is sponsered by:
<Viper550> A, P, and T!
<Riddell> Viper550: well kdm depends on kubuntu-default-settings so you are using kubuntu (assuming you're using ubuntu)
<Riddell> or you could just have compiled it yourself
<Viper550> No, that's not a dependency! Kubuntu-Desktop depends on KDM, but KDE doesn't depend on it! I did sudo apt-get install kde!
<Riddell> kdm depends on kubuntu-default-settings, which brings in all the kubuntu branding and stuff
<Viper550> NO NO NO! It didn't do that, I also have the KDE 3.5 repository
<Riddell> Viper550: so you going to do all our kubuntu artwork in dapper?
<Viper550> Well, I also still use Gnome
<Riddell> :)
<Viper550> All it did strangly is crash on the first time because it couldn't find the Kubuntu theme, then failsafed to a dialog login.
<Viper550> But then I extracted a Kubuntu Ultra Login and then it worked, because the kdmrc was pointing to the kubuntu theme.
<artnay> hey guys. seems like mhz and klepas won't make it, so let's start with an introduction. have you updated your wiki info?
<Riddell> kubuntu ultra?
* Viper550 fires aptitude
<Viper550> KDM theme...
<Riddell> Viper550: got a URL?
<manicka> not lately
<Viper550> ps. kubuntu-default-settings is not installed.
<Viper550> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29331
<artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal - does anyone have suggestions on structure?
<Riddell> Viper550: you must have installed kdm at some point from packages, else you wouldn't have a kdmrc that pointed to the kubuntu theme
<Viper550> I did install KDM, I said that earlier if you wern't listening
<Riddell> well it depends on kubuntu-default-settings so you should have the kubuntu kdm theme installed too
<Viper550> No, it didn't install any Kubuntu stuff, everything I have is from Base KDE 3.5 (Started as 3.4, then apt-get upgraded to 3.5 from the repos)
<Viper550> It's either a miracle, or APT was confused
<Riddell> spooky
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-01-04
<artnay> shall we start by having a wiki discussion?
<Viper550> Spooky, I got KDE and KDM, and it didn't even give me Kubuntu stuff, oh yeah the new Kubuntu wall is simliar to the KDE 3.5 one for some reason.
<bachler> hi all
<lukacu> hello
<artnay> hey bachler 
<Viper550> Maybe we should start on Kubuntu first
<bachler> sry to be late
<artnay> Viper550: and which part?
<Viper550> We were just discussing my APT weirdness, let's talk KDM first
<Viper550> You can guess where I got that idea from... :)
<artnay> every *buntu should have its own Artwork subcategory. to do that, there's also need for unified structure between these *buntuArtwork pages
<artnay> could we discuss about that structure? does anyone have suggestions as tree view lists?
<Viper550> Maybe our default Kubuntu kdm should be based off this: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=24365
<artnay> hey mhz_idle, you made it ;)
<mhz_idle> not really, artnay sorry
<mhz_idle> please read -artwork :(
<artnay> mhz_idle: do you have that list?
<Viper550> Oh wait, are we just discussing Wiki structure now, if yes, I will hide under KWall
<bachler> are we discussing wiki structure or kde/kdm?
<artnay> Viper550: that is the most important case at the moment. we can't expect people to participate if they are unable to find needed information
<Viper550> Okay...
* Viper550 hides under KWall, keeps ksirc on
<artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
* Viper550 made up the Kwall thing
<artnay> when it comes to different *buntus, that page should tell which projects a person is attached to
<lukacu> hi volvoguy
<volvoguy> howdy all! what'd i miss? :)
<artnay> so, after the discussion, could you all fill something like Kubuntu/KWin after your name
<artnay> that would help a lot
<artnay> what do you think? have you all read the context under /Artwork?
<volvoguy> artnay, heading there now to catch up.
<artnay> I don't want to have a monolog here :)
<bachler> i have read it
<volvoguy> ok. i'm there. 
<artnay> what topics would you like to discuss? I know there's lots of things listed, so can we take the most important ones on table
<Viper550> I'm where? artworktodo list?
<klepas> sorry I'm late :)
<lukacu> klepas, hi
<libervisco> hey klepas 
<Viper550> What wiki page are we discussing? /artwork ?
<artnay> Viper550: mainly /*buntuArtwork
<artnay>  /Artwork isn't that challenging
<artnay> can we have a unified structure? are there people from Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu?
<Riddell> I'm from Kubuntu
<klepas> i think a unified structure would serve us best
<manicka> <--Ubuntu
<artnay> *nods for KDE*
<volvoguy> artnay, one thing that was never clear to me was who we answered to. we can talk about all this stuff until we're blue in the face, but for the last release, all my contact with canonical people fell on deaf ears. 
<volvoguy> <-- Ubuntu
<trevorv> I'm a Xubuntu user, not developer, but I can do some work on the wiki
<bachler> why don't Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Xubuntu adopt from the main Ubuntu page?
<bachler> or wathever layout is the best
<manicka> <--edubuntu as well
<volvoguy> bachler, perhaps subpages rather than seperate pages? 
<artnay> volvoguy: did you contact them by mail?
<volvoguy> artnay, yeah. 
<lukacu> <-- Ubuntu
<Riddell> volvoguy: some of the ubuntu artwork is contracted out professionally so there's an issue of balancing community with the paid for stuff
<Riddell> Kubuntu doesn't have that issue of course, I'm very welcome of all contributions :)
<Viper550> What about some of my works that I put under the mailing list?
<artnay> Riddell: true. canonical hasn't provided much guides and AUC is problematic, too
<mhz> artnay: okis, I found a 'brake'
* mhz is here now
<klepas> well let us do through the wiki issues first :)
<artnay> Viper550: ML isn't the best place
<klepas> Oh, did we do introductsions for any minutes purposes?
<volvoguy> i had contact with administrative people as well as developers and artists at canonical - supposedly working with the community - but with very little response to my inquiries. i'm not trying to be a downer, but i think it's an issue that needs to be addressed before we put dozens or hundreds of manhours into our own work. 
<Viper550> Well, we've all been on it, and we've not minded. Also, they considered it for some new universe artwork package thingy
<klepas> yep
<Yetzero> I think contacting the 'big ones' at canonical should get priority
<volvoguy> Viper550, that's a good point - if we're meant to be supplimental artwork, then it doesn't really matter what Canonical does. :)
<Yetzero> as volvoguy said
<klepas> this is something that needs to be fixed
<artnay> volvoguy: there are rumours that canonical is hiring people to work on artwork
<Viper550> Mailing List considered my new Glow wallpaper for universe artwork...
<artnay> but we really don't know which parts
<klepas> can this be brought up at something like the Community Council?
<Yetzero> that's what we need to know first
<volvoguy> artnay, that's the same situation as previous releases. 
<klepas> or elsewhere?
<artnay> but we do know that canonical would like to have some community artwork
<Viper550> This is OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE!!! Anyone can contribute anything!
<artnay> sure, but it doesn't guarantee anything at all
<libervisco> Hm, if there's this discrepancy between canonical official artworkers and community artworkers than that could be a problem, if the roles of both haven't been defined properly
<Yetzero> in that case they'll need only proffesional quality artwork, after all, it's the image of their product
<klepas> so can this be brought up at a community council meeting?>
<Yetzero> so we need to be clear about what we can or cannot do
<klepas> or where should it be brought up?
<artnay> libervisco: have our goals defined? *g*
<volvoguy> for breezy we got a last minute email from (nameless dev) asking where all our contributions were and a few of us spent hours getting things together, only to be completely disregarded when it came to the release. 
<Viper550> Image of their OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE, remember those 3 little words that Ubuntu stands on? Remember them like the Alamo!
<bachler> are we slipping away from the wikilayout problem?
<klepas> yep
<klepas> lets get that through first
<artnay> bachler: we already slipped
<libervisco> artnay, heh well, I don't have anything like that, just making an observation, but anything can be achieved in a good discussion :)
<klepas> working backwards through the contents of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
<mhz> Viper550: you are right on that, but the idea behind 'organizing' is to avoid double work, is to advance better
<Viper550> Meowth, that's right! (I just had to do that)
<volvoguy> remember... i'm an ubuntu fanatic all the way, so i'm not trying to pick a fight... just trying to bring past issues to light. 
<mhz> klepas: this can perfectly be raise in CC
<klepas> yep
<klepas> mhz: good
<Riddell> volvoguy: were there requests for specific artwork that you answered?
<Yetzero> that's something we need to know beforehand
<Yetzero> so we can focus on getting that done
<artnay> well it didn't work last time, but we have plenty of time before dappers get wild
<volvoguy> Riddell, mostly - it was background images being looked for and we presented at least a dozen. 
<mhz> How many of you guys have been editing wiki pages on regular basis?
<Gnobdy> hey
<artnay> hi Gnobdy 
<klepas> Guys, keeping on track with our improvised agenda would be helpful. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList)
<klepas> let's discuss the wiki issue
<bachler> yeah
<klepas> and then move on
<volvoguy> by the way, while i was gone, did sonebody else get voted as art team coordinator? 
<mhz> klepas: yuo
<mhz> yup
<bachler> so, volvoguy said something about subcategories?
<Viper550> Also, you goofed up the ending, KDM is a display manager. KDM is to GDM as KDE is to GNOME
<mhz> How many of you guys have been editing wiki pages on regular basis?
<klepas> wiki, guys
<klepas> mhz: i have
<mhz> (i ask that to know what the basis of our discussion will be)
<mhz> klepas: thx
<Viper550> Let's talk about the gold, the actual artwork...
<klepas> i tried updating some of the pages. they sure are dusty ;)
<klepas> Viper550: there is a sort of agenda - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList - let us work from that
<artnay> we could have at least two people editing a specified /*buntuArtwork
<Gnobdy> I think the defualt gtk theme needs upgrading for Dapper
<volvoguy> this is my first attempt at getting back into the swing of things after my surgery. no wiki editing for me lately. 
<mhz> I have some experience on moin wiki and I have read what artnay proposes. I agree with the need to structure our contents
<Viper550> It is having upgrades, Dapper Flight 2 has a new Cairo enabled Human theme
<klepas> Guys, wiki please
<klepas> two groups talking about different things is hard
<mhz> Many users either just dont edit or just dont get the content they look for
<Viper550> GTK theme is on the wiki!
<klepas> in one channel
<volvoguy> yeah. shall we go through the todo? 
<mhz> that is mainly due to the freedom wiki gives
<Gnobdy> Viper550 I think the colours need to change more specifically
<klepas> Viper550: we're working backwards :)
<mhz> (which is a good freedom)
<Gnobdy> the redish brown is ugly
<Viper550> No, that happens AFTER Dapper according to the Shuttleworth memoirs
<artnay> oh, something green: http://hdr.unk.fi/~artnay/leaf_by_machine6featUbuntu.png :) *seriously, let's focus on wiki*
<mhz> ok... Are we discussing WIKI or ART ?
<Gnobdy> he said it could change to something other than brown after dapper not that the shade of brown couldn't change this release
<Viper550> ART!!!!!!!
<libervisco> WIKI
<volvoguy> i think we only have control over alternate themes anyway - not the defaults. 
<mhz> :D
* mhz is LOST
<klepas> i propose wiki
<klepas> it is important
<lukacu> WIKI about ART
<Viper550> If that is the case, I run and hide under KWall
<bachler> artnay: good one, :-P, yeah lets keep to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
<artnay> yeah, wiki is the first priority
<Viper550> The ART on the WIKI?
<klepas> Guys. we're working through it backwards
<klepas> so wiki first
<artnay> Viper550: no, let's use AUC for submitting art
<klepas> mailing list issues next
<mhz> Viper550: to do that we need to structure the wiki to our ART needs, first
<mhz> ok, so we are all in favoru of wiki 1st?
<klepas> the wiki is very important
<mhz> ok
<lukacu> ok
<klepas> yep
<Viper550> What is this AUC you talk about?
<klepas> art.ubunut.com
<mhz> How many of you are already editing wiki pages?
<Yetzero> let's follow the agenda, wiki first
<klepas> *ubuntu
* mhz is
<bachler> can anyone explain the problem with the *buntuArtwork pages so that everyone understands whats wring with them
<Viper550> Oh, just figured that out 1 second before you said that
* klepas is
* Viper550 is wondering what Klepas is...
<artnay> to discuss artwork in specified project, there would be /Artwork -> /*buntuArtwork -> /UbuntuMetacityArtworkDiscussion
<artnay> and one could attach an image with it
<artnay> but AUC would be improved and that would be the first place to submit artwork
<klepas> that is logical
<artnay> screenshots could belong on ubuntuforums
<mhz> artnay: that would be as messy as it is now
<klepas> let's discuss each section
<Viper550> But, that requires registeration for large thumbnails!
<artnay> mhz: I don't know. we need a unified structure of /*buntuArtwork
<mhz> What does ArtWork need a wiki for?
<klepas> the /Artwork would be a central page
<Viper550> wiki.ubuntu.com
<artnay> mhz: ok, let's keep it ArtWork then
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> I forgot about that
<volvoguy> mhz, so we know what we're working on, and new people know what to do when they join the project
<klepas> yep
<mhz> volvoguy: ok, then
<klepas> next is /*buntuArtwork
<mhz> What are the common 'areas for each ArtWork flavour?
<klepas> for each respectively: Kubuntu. Ubuntu. Xubuntu, Edubuntu and so fort
<klepas> *forth
<bachler> Logo
<artnay> mhz: there's some listed at /ArtworkTodoList
<Viper550> Let's do Artnay's idea
<manicka> then the wiki must clearly outline how the projects are progressing and what needs doing
<mhz> yeas I read it
<Viper550> I've got an edit lock on UbuntuMetacityArtwork already!!!
<mhz> artnay: if we keep UbuntuMetacityArtwork
<klepas> so do we agree on this idea
<mhz> we'll keep the mess
<Viper550> Yes, I am going to hit the submit button now!
<artnay> mhz: then we have UbuntuMetacityArtworkDiscussion as wel
<artnay> that could be a mess. but the status page should be clear and informal
<klepas> agreed
* Viper550 hits Save Changes
<mhz> artnay: yeah, but when we define structures we go from general to specific
<bachler> mhz, sounds lite a good idea
<Viper550> Your title code with the equal signs don't work!
<Gnobdy> So is it official that AndyFitz is no longer making an icon theme??
<artnay> Gnobdy: he is
<Gnobdy> oh?
<klepas> Gnobdy: that will come in good time
<klepas> wiki first
<Gnobdy> it said on the wiki that he isn't
<artnay> just have some patience
<volvoguy> i haven't heard from andy in ages. 
<klepas> wiki first please
<nomed> i'm not an ubuntu developer but i was playing with its artwork packages during these days
<volvoguy> sorry. *shuts up*
<artnay> Gnobdy: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList -> Icons
<Viper550> There, the equals needed spaces then the title!
<nomed> i think the Artwork page should be devided in packages sections
<Viper550> For icons, I think we should dump Humility, that project already died!
<volvoguy> let's pretend artnay has the microphone. :)
<nomed> gfxboot-theme-*buntu
<klepas> guys
<klepas> please
<klepas> wiki first
<artnay> volvoguy: he does things his own way. let's give him some time
<klepas> artnay if you will? :)
<nomed> *buntu-artwork-usplash
<nomed> *buntu-artwork
<artnay> 15 minutes left, that's not much
<nomed> as the user will see them during the boot up process
<artnay> we need to make some decisions, mainly on wiki
<klepas> yep
<Viper550> Edit lock already on gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
<volvoguy> artnay, yeah - i just used to be in touch with him daily pre-breezy. i miss him. *sniff*
<klepas> A general question to all
<nomed> then there are subusections on each package
<klepas> How many of you agree that this new proposal for wiki layout is good?
<Yetzero> i do
<artnay> how many of you have read it actually? :)
<nomed> and the one that has more is for sure 
<lukacu> i do
<nomed> *buntu-artwork
<klepas> i do too
<nomed> that includes 
<Gnobdy> I concur
<bachler> i dont reallt see the problem, but i guess that it needs a retouch
<klepas> alright
<mhz> klepas: i think that structure is a good base but we need to make sure it goes from General to Specific
<klepas> shall we vote on it then?
<volvoguy> it's way better than it was.
<nomed> icons metacity wallpaper gtk
<mhz> klepas: trying to avoid subpages as much as we can
<artnay> klepas: vote on what? let's do /UbuntuArtwork as an example
<klepas> mhz: it will become specific very quicly when we get to *buntuArtwork
<artnay> so that would be done within next five days. are there people who are willing to do that same for K, ED and X?
<mhz> klepas: and in order to users/interested people to know what the final structure will be, we need to ask everytone here to Subscribe to ArtWork
<klepas> Yep. I'm happy to
<klepas> mhz: yep
<bachler> anyone got any suggestions for a layout?
<klepas> i think that is alright
<artnay> hopefully you guys have time left as I think this is going to take a while
<klepas> So shall we vote, taking into account that
<klepas> because we need to make decisions
<mhz> bachler: artnay and me but I'll show it once I can wiki it (paper now) and finish this meeting
<klepas> and not let this drag until the next meeting
<klepas> Vote?
<lukacu> yes
<Viper550> Let's do the idea that I'm already putting into action (UbuntuMetacityArtwork)
<bachler> mhz: good, cuz noting will happen unless anyone suggests something
<mhz> artnay: what if we propose 3 people to get working on wiki proposal
<artnay> bachler: topics on /*buntuArtWork: Projects, ???
<klepas> mhz: yep
<klepas> good idea
<klepas> alright
<artnay> mhz: and it would be done within next five days
<klepas> have we got 3 volunteers?
<mhz> artnay: of course! before tuesday
<artnay> not just the propisition, /UbuntuArtwork itself
* klepas puts himself forth
<artnay> damn typos
<klepas> yea, given 3 people and a week
* mhz puts himself too
<klepas> we can do it
<klepas> artnay: will you join us?
<Yetzero> that's the way we have to work
* Viper550 thinks Ubuntu Logos need their own page, /UbuntuLogos
<artnay> Viper550: 
<klepas> anyone else?
<lukacu> i can help after 2nd januray
<klepas> to help fix the wiki
<volvoguy> i really have to remain a casual observer for a while yet, but i'll be around to voice my opinions. ;)
<artnay> no, that would be covered in /*buntuArtwork
<nomed> ubuntu logo is in ubuntu-artwork
<klepas> artnay: ?
<artnay> klepas: I guess I have some time to spare :)
<Viper550> Making Ubuntu Artwork for wallpapers, usplash thingys, excetera
<klepas> thanks
<klepas> alright
<klepas> that is settled then
<klepas> Wiki will be re-organised
<mhz> ALL: so we have the ArtWorkWikiTeam -> klepas + mhz +  artnay  These guys will have a complete wiki proposal for a unified structure
<Viper550> YIPPEE! Let's celebrate!
<artnay> Viper550: no, Projects would be one topic. it would cover mostly stuff that is listed at /ArtworkTodoList
<bachler> haha, .. wath volvoguy said.. i think it applys for me too
<klepas> alright
<lukacu> move on?
<Viper550> Oh, well I can still do the Honk Honk Smells Good dance right?
<klepas> finally wiki is out of the way
<volvoguy> bachler, did you have spinal fusion surgery too? ;)
<artnay> and then below that could be all stuff related to that *buntuArtwork
<lguerra> i want colaborate
<klepas> mailing lists are next
<Viper550> Honk Honk, Honk Honk, Smells Good, Smells Good!
<Yetzero> let's do this 3 people proposal thing for everything :P
<mhz> ALL:  this Team will have 5 days (or 7, considering the dates) to propose something to the ML
<Viper550> Yeah, best of 3!
<bachler> volvoguy: no.. but i got hit by a car.. my left shoulder is not in its best condition
<klepas> I agree with mhz's latest email
<klepas> on the mailing list
<klepas> about using the wiki to upload art
<volvoguy> bachler, ok... you're off the hook too then. 
* Viper550 checks Kmail
<artnay> Yetzero: it will be an open proposal at wiki. it most probably will be discussed on IRC, so please connect to Freenode more often
<klepas> at least work-in-progress stuff
<artnay> klepas: yeah, but now behind one's name. that would be *buntuProjectArtworkDiscussion
* mhz agrees with klepas on using the wiki to upload artwork and have discussions there
<Viper550> I think that's a good idea, but the other way around sounds good too!
<klepas> would that go to, say for example for me /PascalKlein/Artwork ?
<klepas> or where shall this content go?
<artnay> klepas: under the discussion page
<klepas> alright
<klepas> that sounds good
<klepas> because right now using our individual upload methos
<klepas> *methods
<Viper550> Never mind, let's do ML discussion, Wiki Upload. The ml readers got slightly mad for me attaching my stuff
<klepas> and posting to the ML is not the best idea
<klepas> Viper550: we just there is a better, easier way
<klepas> making use of the wiki's features would be that way
<volvoguy> while we're still on the wiki, should the point be made on one of the entry pages that our work will most likely be "contributed" art and not default artwork for the distro? at least for the next few releases? 
<Viper550> YES! Honk Honk Honk Honk, Smells Good Smells Good!
<artnay> Viper550: of course ML would have discussion after renewing wiki. but at least the project page should be kept up-to-date
<klepas> volvoguy: sure, but something i will try to bring up on the Community Council meeting
<volvoguy> klepas, gotcha. thanks. :)
<klepas> so, do we generally agree to no post art on the mailing list
<klepas> well not attached art at least
<bachler> yeah
<lukacu> ok
<volvoguy> klepas, agreed. definitely. 
<klepas> please use Art.ubuntu.com for finished work
<Yetzero> agreed
<Viper550> Yes "signs on not so dotted line, that he already forgot about once..."
<klepas> and anything else goes to the wiki
<klepas> alright
<mhz> volvoguy: good point
<klepas> great
<klepas> thanks everyone
<klepas> it would also allow people to comment on the work
<Viper550> But, you need external hosting to upload wallpapers to AUC
<klepas> so feel free to make use of this too
<klepas> Viper550: use the wiki :)
<klepas> as a start
<volvoguy> mhz, thx. just don't want anyone getting the wrong idea as i did initially. doh!
<mhz> volvoguy: please send an email with the text you imagine. We can use Templates too, so evey new page has same basic content
<Viper550> But, we said we wouldn't use Wiki for finished work!
<artnay> yeah, for the "defaulted ones"
<artnay> *buntuProjectArtwork would have these images, too
<klepas> Viper550: look at it this way
<klepas> you're making something
<mhz> ALL: and please can we agree to upload SVG files too, in AUC ?
<klepas> and you post the work in progress
<klepas> mhz: yep
<Viper550> Yes, for Universe artwork
<klepas> anyhow, and you continue to upload wip versions
<lukacu> mhz: but not ONLY svg please
<klepas> and then lastly, the final version
<Viper550> For your critisim of course!
<klepas> and then you can submit it at AUC
<klepas> :)
<volvoguy> mhz, i think klepas has it under control with the Community Council meeting stuff. keep in touch with him about the details about where we stand with all the work we do. 
<mhz> Viper550: wiki is the base EVERY newcomer visits first, even before AUC
<klepas> yep
<klepas> mhz: wholesomely agreed
<mhz> lucasvo: nope, of course. :D 
<klepas> guys, remember the wiki can be viewed without joining the mailing list and so forth, so everyone can easily see it and have access to it
<bachler> wiki me like!
<klepas> let us make use of the features :)
<mhz> volvoguy: okis on CC
<Viper550> You can view the Mailing List, it's just tougher!
<klepas> anyway so we mutually agreed to use the wiki to post at least work in progress work
<klepas> rather than attaching it to the mailing list
<Viper550> Yes
<lukacu> yes
<Yetzero> yes
<bachler> yes
<mhz> ALL: I can offer myself to do a MoinWiki-School one day here in IRC
<klepas> you can still write about it in the ML, but don't uplaod it
<Viper550> Honk Honk.....never mind the Honk Honk Smells Good dance
<mhz> (if needed)
<klepas> mhz: that's be lovely
<volvoguy> klepas, good point. i was just going to mention that definitions of SVG/PNG/JPG/etc should be defined somewhere. i get emails ALL THE TIME asking for PNG versions of my SVG backgrounds. 
<lukacu> mhz: cool
<bachler> mhz: good, when?
<Viper550> It's called the Export Bitmap tool in Inkscape
<klepas> organise at the end
<klepas> anyway
<klepas> so that's the mailing list out of the way
<artnay> that would be under guides
<klepas> let us move on
<klepas> IRC Channel next :)
<Viper550> Can we now talk about Kubuntu theme proposals?
<mhz> lukacu: klepas: bachler: let me finish the 'structure'  with the team, gimme on emore week and I'l be ready for it and send email on the requirements
<lukacu> ok
<bachler> k
<artnay> and every *buntuProjectArtwork would cover links to guides related to that project
<klepas> given the attendance we have now, does this mean we will have more people on the #ubuntu-artwork irc channel?
<bachler> the allmighty IRC channel..
<volvoguy> Viper550, i know that - but Mr. Windows Guy trying to use an SVG wallpaper doesn't. 
<klepas> i would certainly welcome it
<Viper550> Inkscape runs on Windows too!
<libervisco> good to see some progress made :)
<artnay> but nobody has agreed to build/maintain /Kubu... and /Xu...
* libervisco just observes
<Viper550> Kubuntu Art?
<mhz> libervisco: good point
<volvoguy> Viper550, :-P
<klepas> let's not stray
<klepas> the IRC topic is small and we can move on quickly
<klepas> can i just get a headcount on how many people use the IRC on a regular basis please?
<lukacu> volvoguy: it is also easier for auc admin to create thumbnail out of png or jpg ... i think so
<volvoguy> klepas, i'll try to hit the IRC channel more. this is the longest i've been online in months. 
<mhz> klepas: i use it
<libervisco> klepas, heh I do, but I wasn't in these channels before :)
* Viper550 laughs hysterically
<klepas> volvoguy: yea, you've got an excuse
<artnay> lukacu: we can have a script that would create/convert everything needed
<Yetzero> i don't use IRC for anything else that this meeting
<klepas> alright
<volvoguy> lukacu, probably. that got going right before my surgery so i haven't even logged in as admin yet. 
<bachler> irc channel.. i really dont remember where i got the info about it.. but a quick googel on "ubuntu artwork irc" gets you to http://www.volvoguy.net/ubuntu/
<klepas> so generally the use of the IRC channel probably won't increase
<lukacu> artnay: yeah, but we need imagemagick ;)
<Viper550> Think the default Kubuntu icons should be something different than Crystal?
<klepas> that's alright for now
<libervisco> klepas, what are plans for IRC?
<artnay> lukacu: we just have to tell about that to canonical. I hope they are more aware of this problem after this discussion
<klepas> no decisions need to made on this so we can move on the topic of AUC
<volvoguy> bachler, hey, for a while a google of "ubuntu artwork" listed my site as number one. :) 
<klepas> libervisco: nothing much, use it for what we currently do :)
<bachler> heh
<libervisco> oh ok 
<Riddell> Viper550: generally I want to keep kubuntu close to KDE artwork
<klepas> AUC.
<artnay> volvoguy: and when was the last time you updated it? :) I think that google result tells something
<Viper550> It's called being unique
<Viper550> NuoveXT would be perfect!
<volvoguy> artnay, i know. i'm a slacker. :)
<klepas> what are your takes on the CMS?
<artnay> Riddell: yeah, the default theme has taken some hours, and there are reasons for that
<mhz> klepas: even if IRC use is not more, Wiki is for those who dont IRC, and ML for those who can complain or suggest something
<klepas> mhz: yep :)
<mhz> :D
<artnay> klepas: not artweb
<artnay> I see it's causing a lot of pain
<Viper550> They'd look good...
<klepas> artnay: agreed
<bachler> i perssonally would like to see some more activity on the irc
<ptomes> Viper550: What about http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=32288
<klepas> who here has administration rights to AUC apart from me?
<lukacu> me
<lukacu> i
<lukacu> :)
<artnay> beside AUC will have to cover stuff for at least four different flavous
<Yetzero> what about weekly IRC meetings?
<mhz> libervisco: usually, all FLOSS developments discuss actively on IRC channels
<klepas> so lukacu and i.
<artnay> artweb can't do that anyway
<volvoguy> artweb in retrospect wasn't a great idea - but it was a quick fix. 
<Viper550> Tango> not even close to KDE artwork!!!
<klepas> Yetzero: sounds awesome
<libervisco> mhz, yep
<lukacu> and volvoguy i think
<Viper550> p.s. It's a pain to setup under KDE
<klepas> i know Andy does too
<Yetzero> I see the main problem about IRC is that we live in different places so we don't know when to get there
<libervisco> So someone here has full access to be able to install a CMS?
<bachler> i am totaly for smaller meetings on irc every.. say, weekend 
<klepas> Guys! May I suggest if you wish to discuss something off topic for now use the #ubuntu-artwork IRC channel please!
<klepas> libervisco: no. guys from Canonical did that =\
<libervisco> ah
<Viper550> So, any other artwork related thing should be in ubuntu-artwork now?
<artnay> it's 02:09 AM here and I have work tomorr... no, today. could we make some more decisions?
<bachler> klepas: weekly meetings in irc?
<libervisco> so how can you get them to change it?
<klepas> bachler: yep, i'm all for it
<volvoguy> if we all vote on something better, we have a Canonical contact to work on our server. 
<bachler> klepas: me too
<klepas> back to AUC
<libervisco> volvoguy, I see
<klepas> how many of us generall agree that the artweb cms ought to be replaced?
* klepas does
<libervisco> let me take a look at it, have a link?
<lukacu> well if we find something better then yes
<artnay> I guess the current AUC admins have quite clear picture what's slowing AUC down. let's suppose that artweb will be changed
<bachler> so, what day of the week would the meeting be held, and what time? .. i guess that saturdays is good for me
<mhz> Yetzero: yes, IRC is to intereact while you are working on something. Also, ML is to general discussion but is so slow. Wiki is to place stuff so others can discuss or complement
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com
<libervisco> oh
<libervisco> right :D
<mhz> libervisco: why a CMS?
<Viper550> If I wanted to talk about StreamlinedBoot, where should I go?
<Yetzero> mhz: thanks
<klepas> libervisco: you won't see the lack of functions as a nomral user
<volvoguy> libervisco, he worked a lot on artweb so he might not be thrilled, but if there's a strong contender we might be able to get it replaced. 
<artnay> klepas: it's still pain to navigate
<klepas> yep
<libervisco> I see
<libervisco> well it looks good from user side
<klepas> so generally do we agree to seek alternate systems?
<libervisco> but klepas did told me it's a disaster to manage from your side
<klepas> libervisco: but it is a huge pain to add content
<klepas> yes
<volvoguy> it's a disaster. 
* bachler waves a little with the IRC channel question...
<libervisco> a good site to test CMSs is www.opensourcecms.com
<lukacu> yes
<artnay> klepas: we do. and what next?
<klepas> Since a fair few of us, particularly the admins, think the artweb CMS isn't as great as we need
<artnay> ;)
<Viper550> A little bit of Ubuntu on my comp...sorry about the Mambo #5 pun, it runs Mambo!
<klepas> let's see if there is anyone interested in checking out alternatives
<mhz> CMS that use PHP do need more admin hours than Moin as CMS
<libervisco> I think you can definitely find a better CMS
<mhz> and we can make Moin work as CMS
<klepas> and reporting back to use on what they find
<mhz> thats why we formed a team :D
<klepas> mhz: i wouldn't use it for this purpose
<klepas> i personally suggest something like the GNOME/KDE-look.org CMS
<mhz> (me neither, klepas but it can be)
<artnay> mhz: we need something well-tested to this purpose. how's Moin as CMS?
<klepas> i know it is quite configurable
<libervisco> well drupal and XOOPS are great, from my experience
<klepas> not for managing graphic content
<lukacu> yeah, drupal is cool
<libervisco> although XOOPS has a better image gallery
<mhz> artnay: klepas: we can analyze it while we work on # the channel :)
<klepas> something like GNOME/KDE-look.org's CMS is better
<klepas> alright
<volvoguy> a big argument for artweb was that it tied in with gnomeart - allowing users to use one app to preview, download and install any artwork from our site or art.gnome.org. that hasn't happened yet though .
<libervisco> klepas, I think they use something like phpnuke...
<klepas> volvoguy: yea, and frankly that app sucks
<lukacu> :)
<volvoguy> klepas, eh - it gets the job done. usually. 
<klepas> the work that would need to be done to fix it + the work that would need to be done to fix art-web... ugh. too much
<bachler> what are we takling about again?
<klepas> AUC
<klepas> and it's CMS
<volvoguy> lol
<klepas> art-web
<Viper550> Should it use AGC's cms system?
<lukacu> we do need guidelines and faq
<artnay> ok, let's take a closer look at what's happening currently with artweb. if it won't provide much more usability, then let's change it. we need a team to seek for an alternativies. let's place this info to wiki and a discussion page of that
<mhz> ALL:  what if we have a wiki page to anlize what we expect from and art-web site?
<volvoguy> you know, i think i need to quit distracting you and go take some pain meds. i'll try to catch up with the logs and find ya'll later on our own IRC channel. good seeing everybody again. 
<mhz> and then, fill it with opinions and charts
<klepas> cheers volvoguy 
<lukacu> bye volvoguy
<mhz> volvoguy: thx for being here
<klepas> mhz: sounds alright
<artnay> volvoguy: take care
<volvoguy> thanks, and my pleasure. :) later guys!
<libervisco> cya volvoguy 
<klepas> i personally propose we get a few people who are interested in this
<klepas> and ask them to investigate possible alternative CMSs
<mhz> klepas: good too!
<klepas> maybe they have access to a server, and can set it up
<klepas> and then allow the current admins to have a look at the admin interface
<artnay> klepas: yeah, that doesn't require inkscape or the gimp
<Yetzero> we need somewhere to upload artwork
<klepas> lol
<klepas> still art related :)
<klepas> think of it this way
<mhz> klepas: but befoire they set the CMS I think it's needed to discuss the featrures
<klepas> if we get something as powerful as GNOME-look.org' CMS set up art will be so much easier to maintain
<klepas> mhz: yep
<Viper550> KDE-Look also uses that, whatever it is
<artnay> mhz: AUC admins will most likely write a list of needed operations. that list will be included in wiki
<klepas> yep
<klepas> as does KDE-Apps, XFCE-Look and so forth
<mhz> yup
<klepas> agreed
<klepas> lukacu and i can do that
<mhz> Will we have another meeting next week ?
<lukacu> yeah
<klepas> i can ask Andy to do the same
<klepas> mhz: sounds alright
<klepas> we need some progress
<artnay> indeed
<klepas> so another meeting would serve us well
<mhz> ALL: so we'll submit advances next meeting?
<klepas> yes
<Yetzero> please, weekly meetings at a fixed time
<klepas> lukacu: i'll contact Andy
<mhz> can we discus UTC time on ML?
<artnay> we need to start now, otherwise we won't make it (just like with breezy :(
<lukacu> ok
<Yetzero> ok
<mhz> or voting via WIki as we did now?
<klepas> ditto
<Viper550> ditto!
<klepas> Yes!
<bachler> ok
<Viper550> 3 anti-strikes, you
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> okis
<Viper550> I mean 3 anti-strikes, you're in!
<klepas> lukacu: we'll pass around what we come up with concerning the features or lack thereof via mail
<mhz> we can even rotate UTC time so everyone get a chance to feel better
<klepas> Andy you and I
<Viper550> At least my time made it start at 6pm
<lukacu> no problem
* mhz has to ge tbnack to solving 'issues'
<klepas> alright
<klepas> so that is AUC out of the way
<mhz> ALL:  thx for being here and see you in #ubuntu-artwork
<klepas> considering the next lot is all small stuff
<mhz> bye all
<bachler> bye
* Viper550 thinks it's time to actually start talking art, in ubuntu-artwork
<artnay> pong mhz
<klepas> if you guys are going
<klepas> check the Logs later
<klepas> there is still someting i want to discuss
<klepas> for those that are left
* mhz_away will read logs, of course
<bachler> i am here
<artnay> I think that the current brown look is a problem. I also think that Canonical acknowledges this
* lllmanulll didn't say anything, but is here :)
<artnay> they might not have plans ready yet
<klepas> what do you guys reckon on making a Ubuntu and a Kubuntu universe art package
<artnay> so some patience, I'll bet they will answer
<Riddell> klepas: what would you put in them?
<bachler> klepas: i think that is a good idea
<klepas> because i've had people from both the KDE (Kubuntu) and GNOME (Ubuntu) community privately ask us to make something like this
<Viper550> Is the meeting over?
<klepas> well for the Kubuntu one for a example
<artnay> at least the current theme has been heavily criticized. I like the idea of brown (it seems to be quite important topic to some ubuntu users), but the current style is a bit outdated
<Riddell> we already have a kubuntu-grub-splashimages so stuff like that is quite possible
<klepas> KDM themes, window decorations, themes/styles and so forth
<klepas> wallpapersd
<klepas> we could even package tango
<Viper550> But, I'm concerned about the Usplash artwork for the deravitives...
<Riddell> tango is packaged I'm sure, dholbach does it
<libervisco> Tango is a good idea
<artnay> at least majority of my friends have said that after ubuntu installation. and I guess I'm with them
<artnay> ;P
<libervisco> I think people should start implementing it
<klepas> well forget tango for now
<Viper550> I still think for what it is right now, Humility is pretty neat lookingh
<klepas> Kubuntu's universe art package would include kubuntu (KDE) related art
<klepas> how does that soun Riddell ?
<klepas> *sound
<artnay> those debian packages should be able to "humanize" your KDE and make GNOME look blue or something
<Riddell> klepas: sounds fun, if there's enough high quality random kubuntu artwork that would be nice to have it in a package
<Yetzero> you have a point there
<Viper550> Yeah, we could call them ubuntu-gearize and kubuntu-humanize!
<BxL> everything else exept ubuntu is blue, get something else than blue
<klepas> well i plan to make some new stuff for it too
<bachler> i think that the answer to all this is to have more art and themes as packages?
<klepas> no point packaging only art that people have already see :)
<klepas> *seen
<Yetzero> yeah
<artnay> BxL: it wouldn't be blue by default
<klepas> I've already been given the go ahead for an Ubuntu (thus GNOME) art package for universe by Ogra
<artnay> that's the point, let's provide an easy way to change the whole look of GUI
<Yetzero> we should work on a different overall art proposal
<klepas> Riddell: can you give me the green light as to a Kubuntu universe art package?
<Viper550> Let's think about the users...ideas
<artnay> it's not like my mom would surf GNOME-look or KDE-look, compile new decos etc.
<Yetzero> that affects the whole system in a way that it's coherent
<artnay> it has to be simple. bvc has nice GNOME mods ready, maybe he would like to get them packaged
<bachler> artnay: sounds good
<Viper550> Okay, don't forget about that wallpaper I put on the ML, Glow!
<klepas> Riddell: ?
<Riddell> klepas: if you think there's enough decent kubuntu themed artwork I'm all for it
<bachler> me too
<klepas> cool
<Riddell> klepas: give me a poke in #kubuntu-devel if you need any help or want me to review
<klepas> i'd be happy to work on both of these
<klepas> Ubuntu and Kubuntu packages
<klepas> sure
<klepas> thanks :)
<klepas> while we're on it
<bachler> klepas: *thumbsup*
<klepas> is there anyone who would be willing to help me in this regard?
<artnay> klepas: to say: GNOME and KDE :p
<klepas> find suitable artwork and create some
<artnay> it's the idea, leave the current Ubuntu/Edubuntu style in a second
<Yetzero> i'm all for creating content... at last :D
<klepas> artnay: interested?
<klepas> Riddell: just one more question on this - what license would the stuff have to be under?
<artnay> klepas: if I only had more time... but I'll try to do my best :o
<klepas> alrighty ;)
<bachler> well..
<lukacu> klepas: i will help as much as i can
* bachler goes off into the night
<klepas> nice
<bachler> bye.
<Yetzero> bye
<klepas> cheers bachler 
<lukacu> bye
<klepas> Riddell: license?
<artnay> klepas: that's another issue, licenses. which ones are acceptable? CC-SA, LGPL, GPL etc.
<artnay> but
<Viper550> The glow wallpaper if you are wondering; http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20051226/f7c89d99/ubuntuglow-0001.jpg
<Riddell> klepas: the kubuntu logo is creative commons, anything Free is acceptable though
<libervisco> CC-SA is probably best for art
<artnay> there's lots of Ubuntu-related artwork all around the web. if license will give you a right to distribute it, please submit it to AUC
<libervisco> GPLs are mainly for software
<Viper550> My glow one is GPL
<artnay> libervisco: that's true. I think the GPL team will provide an equivalent to artwork, too.
<Viper550> Automatically, because it's a dervitave of a GPL work!
<artnay> when V3 is released
<libervisco> artnay, that would be good
<klepas> Ogra mentioned some CC license
<klepas> but i can't remember which
<klepas> and it all has to be under that license
<artnay> or then they leave it to CC, I don't really know. So don't take my word on that.
<Viper550> Creative Commons Attribution?
<klepas> so if we find something that is GPL we need to ask the creator
<artnay> klepas: CC can be restrictive, too.
<klepas> yes, i know
<klepas> remember it isn't my decision
<Viper550> No, as long as it is also GPL'd and there is source code!
<libervisco> CC-SA is best IMO
<libervisco> attribution, share alike
<klepas> libervisco: that sounds fine
<klepas> might even have been tha
<klepas> *that
<klepas> either way
<libervisco> it's equivalent to GPL for software
<klepas> i'll contact ogra about it
<Yetzero> that's the best one i think
<klepas> and ask him which one it was
<artnay>  /Artwork will be updated shortly. it will have short-term goals for different kind of projects (no artwork needed).
<klepas> alright
<Viper550> Now, let's start on that todo list with Fonts, okay?
<klepas> well to sort of conclude this
<klepas> I'd like to extend a big thankyou to you all
<klepas> for attending
<klepas> i've seen some new faces. :)
<klepas> and i think we've gotten ourselves a wee bit more organised
<lukacu> who will write meeting minutes?
* klepas is already on it
<klepas> :)
<lukacu> :)
<lukacu> cool
<artnay> Viper550: if it's not taken default by canonical, that kind of stuff should be left to decided by style submitter
<klepas> now that we have gotten ourselves organised
<klepas> we can actually go away and do something
<Viper550> Little question, why not change the default font to FreeSans?
<klepas> before the next meeting
<klepas> One final request
<klepas> out of those here now
<klepas> could you please do:
<artnay> Viper550: because no Canonicals has provided their opinion.
* klepas is FirstnameLastname
<klepas> for exampple
* klepas is Pascal Klein
<klepas> :)
<Yetzero> * is Luis Santander
<klepas> for the meeting minutes
<Yetzero> :D
<libervisco> I like FreeSans font
<klepas> i'll check the others through the logs
* libervisco is Danijel Orsolic
<libervisco> :)
* lukacu is Luka Cehovin
* artnay is tired
<lukacu> lol
<klepas> :)
<libervisco> :D
* lllmanulll is Manu Cornet
<Yetzero> did you guys got some bad time? I started here at 8:00 pm :D
<klepas> 11:40 AM here :)
<Yetzero> :O
<libervisco> 01: 40
<artnay> don't mention it... 02:43 AM
<libervisco> AM
<artnay> therefore I'm a bit exhausted
<lukacu> yeah ... its late allright
<artnay> I have to get up at 6 AM :|
<lukacu> lol
<artnay> anyways, enough of OT
<lukacu> lets finish then
<libervisco> damn, you better get some sleep artnay :)
<Yetzero> what's left to discuss?
<klepas> nothing really
<artnay> if only we could know what canonical is planning. we need to get a idea of that so we can sort of base our artwork on that
<artnay> well at least have something similiar
<klepas> Yetzero: not now anyway
<artnay> if the official artwork gets released when Dapper gets gold, it's already too late
<klepas> Yetzero: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
<klepas> but most of it next time
<Yetzero> klepas: Ok
<klepas> i ought to have minutes finished tonight my time or tomorrow (my time)
<klepas> ohh
<klepas> artnay: will you help make a cooperative article about the proceedings for Ubuntux.org?
<klepas> :)
<libervisco> artnay is the owner of Ubuntux.org?
<artnay> remember, this is community based work. canonical is relying on community. only Mark has the last word to be used (veto)
<klepas> no
<klepas> :P
<libervisco> :D
<klepas> either way, i promised Friedrich (owner of ubuntux.org) a sort of mini article on what's happening art wise
<klepas> he'll be happy to hear about an Ubuntu and a Kubuntu universe art package
<Yetzero> artnay is right, but we need to know where exactly we can help
<libervisco> oh
<klepas> don't worry
<klepas> i'm going to the next Community Council meeting
<klepas> and i'll be taking that up
<klepas> i want to know as much as the rest of you what is happening in regards to art
<klepas> whether our efforts will appear in Dapper or not
<klepas> anyway
<klepas> i need to be off
<klepas> thanks again everyone
<libervisco> alright, cya later klepas 
<lukacu> bye klepas
<Yetzero> bye
<artnay> klepas: be sure to come back, we have some wikis to do :p
<klepas> libervisco: we can publish the phpbb theme soon
<klepas> yep
<klepas> will do :)
<libervisco> klepas, sure.. I can make those changes if needed...
<libervisco> should test it on default install first
<artnay> so how many of you guys are present?
<lukacu> present where?
<Yetzero> i'm here
<artnay> there's lots of nick in here but only a few have participated in discussion
<lukacu> oh...
<klepas> yep
<klepas> i'll dissect the logs later :)
<artnay> did this meeting miss something big time? how do you feel after all this?
<klepas> for minutes purposes
* BxL boo
<artnay> which subjects would you like to discuss?
<lukacu> artnay: next meeting i guess?
<BxL> wallpaper, or maybe the lack of different wallpaper
<artnay> lukacu: by then we need to have some progress
<Yetzero> so when will it be? next meeting
<klepas> 7 days!
<lukacu> :)
<klepas> because we need time for the wiki at least
<Yetzero> same time?
<lukacu> ugh ... thats going to be tough
<klepas> we can vote on it
<klepas> Yetzero: since most people who attended have left
<klepas> let's not decide now
<klepas> we can use the voting wiki page
<artnay> damn UTC 23 ;)
<lukacu> :)
<lukacu> lets use wiki
<klepas> i'll send mails out and get stuff organised later today
<klepas> yep
<klepas> anyhow
<Yetzero> yeah, wiki voting
<lukacu> ok...i think i will have some sleep then
<klepas> yep
<klepas> call it a night
<lukacu> bye all
<klepas> cheers guys
<artnay> but hey
<lukacu> what?
* klepas klep[a] s
<artnay> if you didn't already, fill your wiki info
<lukacu> what info?
<artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
<lukacu> oh ... that info :)
<artnay> so we can have a idea in which projects are people interested in
<artnay> an... forgive me
<lukacu> ?
<klepas> guys
<klepas> just to let you know
<klepas> meeting is over so we should probably move to #ubuntu-artwork :)
<lukacu> night all then
<libervisco> 'night lukacu 
<Yetzero> bye
<artnay> after watching my typos and grammar, I think it's a suitable time to get some sleep
<artnay> bye
<libervisco> bye artnay 
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-01-05
<cyphase> #freenode-newyears @ irc.freenode.net
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-01-07
<rraphink> hi dholbach 
<rraphink> I'm currently reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowToPatch
<rraphink> I guess that does only apply for merges, not for new packages, right?
<dholbach> nice, but maybe we should switch to another channel ;)
<rraphink> oops
<rraphink> haha
<rraphink> well imagine I have asked you this question on -motu and you can answer me there ;)
<rraphink> ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-01-01
<d|2007> szczesliwego nowego roku
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 03 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-01-02
<klaidas_> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 02 Jan 22:00: Technical Board | 03 Jan 22:00: Edubuntu | 04 Jan 00:00: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 17:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 18:00: Forum Council
<freeflying|away> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 03 Jan 04:00: Technical Board | 04 Jan 04:00: Edubuntu | 04 Jan 06:00: Xubuntu | 05 Jan 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 23:00: LoCo Team | 10 Jan 00:00: Forum Council
<freeflying|away> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 03 Jan 04:00: Technical Board | 04 Jan 04:00: Edubuntu | 04 Jan 06:00: Xubuntu | 05 Jan 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 23:00: LoCo Team | 10 Jan 00:00: Forum Council
<siretart> @schedule Europe/Berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 02 Jan 21:00: Technical Board | 03 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu | 03 Jan 23:00: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 16:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 17:00: Forum Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council
<siretart> TB Meeting anyone?
<Keybuk> Never Fear, I Is Here
<siretart> hey Keybuk  :)
<Keybuk> do we have mdz, mjg59 or sabdfl?
<ogra> doesnt look like
<siretart> mjg59 seems to be on #ubuntu-devel, no idea about mdz and sabdfl
<siretart> Keybuk: did my inquiry arrive on techical-board@l.u.c? I didn't get any response yet
<Keybuk> it did, yes
<siretart> okay
<Keybuk> the lack of response is almost certainly related to the holiday season
<siretart> I thought so, no problem
<siretart> I wasn't sure about correct arrival either
<mjg59> Tch. I was sure I had this on autojoin.
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> let's get started
<Keybuk> mdz is on holiday, and has no internet access
<Keybuk> so it's just the two of us today
<mjg59> Right
<Keybuk> first, some administrivia
<mjg59> Anyone for core-dev?
<mjg59> Ah, ok
<Keybuk> people will note that it's been two years since we started using LP to track developers
<Keybuk> so we're starting to get people's team membership expire
<Keybuk> if you're an active developer, you'll be renewed automatically
<Keybuk> if you haven't been active for a while, you may need to reapply via TB meeting again
<siretart> how is the 'activeness' measured? by a human or by soyuz looking at the last upload?
<Keybuk> human
<siretart> k
<Keybuk> one of the TB members will react to the "seb128 has expired!" e-mail, and renew the membership :)
<ogra> do trhe users get them too ?
<Keybuk> yes
<ogra> to have the ability to raise their hands  ?
<ogra> ah, cool
<ogra> i had some for edubuntu recently
<Keybuk> anyway, onwards
<Keybuk> core-dev
<Keybuk> I have nobody in my list
<Keybuk> is there anybody here who's applied for core-dev membership and thinks they should be?
<Keybuk> clearly not
<Keybuk> good
<Keybuk> ubuntu-dev
<Keybuk> again, I have nobody in my l.ist
<Amaranth> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+members shows 4 people
<Keybuk> is there anybody here who's applied for ubuntu-dev membership and thinks they should be?
<ogra> why is kylem on there ?
<Keybuk> Amaranth: we only consider people who applied since the last TB meeting
<Amaranth> ah, i see
<ogra> he should be uploading already, shouldnt he ?
* kylem eyebrows.
<Keybuk> those that applied before are people who were turned down at a previous meeting with a "later"
<Keybuk> ogra: playing "join all teams", I expect
<ogra> heh
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> nobody for ubuntu-dev today then
<kylem> ogra, i didn't read far enough that core-dev implied -dev.
<Keybuk> dholbach isn't around, so I assume we will not be discussing Council Greyskull today
<ogra> well, no quorum anyway
<Keybuk> siretart: you have an agenda item, the floor is yours
<Keybuk> ogra: we have Q
<ogra> two is enough ?
<ogra> ah, right, its TB :) not CC
<Keybuk> ogra: yes, TB Q has always been two
<siretart> well, status update: I have contacted the techincal board again, this time via email about the ffmpeg issue
<Keybuk> we assume a three man team, and require a simple majority
<siretart> I filed a MIR about ffmpeg, requested it to be reapproved for main
<Keybuk> yes
<Keybuk> I didn't get the context of the e-mail
<siretart> I'm still not sure what codecs are exactly problematic
<siretart> until that issue is resolved, I'm proposing an interim solution: let's upload xine-lib with its internal partial copy of ffmpeg with no mpeg2 encoding capabilities
<siretart> to main that is
<Keybuk> what uses xine-lib?
<mjg59> Ok. So I've a couple of questions about this, to begin with.
<siretart> since we already have packages like libmad, I'd like to know what issues are to resolve
<siretart> Keybuk: most notable kubuntu (amarok) and xubuntu
<mjg59> 1) Is mpeg2 the only actively-enforced-patent-encumbered codec in ffmpeg?
<ogra> Keybuk, totem-xine
<mjg59> We're getting very close to the point where we should drop totem-xine, but that's not strictly important
<siretart> mjg59: 1) I refer to debian/patents.txt quoted on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionFFmpeg. Sam (and me neither) don't know about any further
<Keybuk> ogra: don't we support totem-gstreamer instead?  and the theory of ffmpeg-in-main was that some of the ugly codecs could be in main too?
<siretart> Keybuk: gxine as well
<ogra> Keybuk, right, totem-xine isnt in main either, sorry
<siretart> Keybuk: xine uses ffmpeg not only for codecs. some plugins use the 'libpostproc' library, which has nothing to do about decoding. I expect some other packages as well
<mjg59> siretart: I'm not sold on the "libmad is in main, so ffmpeg should be"
<mjg59> It's equally plausible that libmad being in main is an error
<mjg59> We quite clearly don't ship a useful mp3 player in main, and that's defined as policy
<siretart> mjg59: demotion of libmad would cause quite some trouble, looking at the reverse build-deps
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/feisty/rdepends/libmad/libmad0
<siretart> mjg59: anyway, if the decision is to demote libmad, then I'd request to demode xine-lib as well. this would however deeply annouy kubuntu and xubuntu users
<Keybuk> I'm not sure why it's still a build-depend
<Mithrandir> mjg59: *cough*; xmms *cough*
<zul> Mithrandir: er...its still kind of brroken
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Seriously? That can't be deliberate.
<Mithrandir> mjg59: done so since warty.
<mjg59> Sigh.
<mjg59> Ok.
<Keybuk> note that main != CD
<mjg59> Let's just ignore the current state of reality. It clearly isn't useful.
<Mithrandir> it might very well be an error, but we quite clearly do, just not in a default install.
<Keybuk> we certainly don't ship any MP3 players on the CD
<Keybuk> that's definitely legally naughty
<mjg59> Right. So.
<Keybuk> on the FTP site is legally wishy-washy because users initiate the download
<siretart> as mentioned, I have already prepared new xine 1.1.3 packages, with the ffmpeg plugin split out to libxine1-ffmpeg. Xine loads its plugins at runtime using dlopen, which makes this convinient
<mjg59> Keybuk: Do we have legal advice on that?
<Keybuk> mjg59: that's my understanding, otherwise we wouldn't ship them in universe
<siretart> so even if we promote ffmpeg and xine-lib uses that, we don't need to put ffmpeg on the CD
<Keybuk> my understanding is that main vs. universe is legally no different, but CD vs. FTP is
<siretart> this was an argument in my email, right
<mjg59> Keybuk: Ok. You're in a better position to check that than I am - is it possible to verify that, just to make sure that we're not doing it unwittingly?
<Keybuk> main vs. universe is simply a matter of which team (core-dev vs. dev) supports the package
<mjg59> Right, clearly there's no legal distinction between main, universe and multiverse
<Riddell> people may assume that since main is supported it can be freely used without worrying about getting a patent licence
<Riddell> (or they may not)
<mjg59> So based on current practice, providing a xine-lib including ffmpeg would be fine for main, just not for ship
<Keybuk> mjg59: previous legal issues have been somewhat clouded by people shouting "WE'RE GOING TO JAIL!" over the top of sensible discourse  ;)
<Keybuk> mjg59: assuming that xine-lib, xmms, etc. aren't in main by mistake :p
<Keybuk> none of them are seeded, so I'd be willing to believe an FTP master was especially asleep one day
<Riddell> we need xine-lib
<mjg59> Keybuk: Well, that pretty much definitely would be "aren't on the FTP server by mistake"
<Riddell> and xmms is orders of sabdfl I believe
<Keybuk> but yes, given that xmms and libmad are in main, I don't see the reason that ffmpeg isn't
<mjg59> I'm going to attempt to summarise this, and propose the next step.
<Keybuk> siretart has filed an MIR, that's a request for the archive admins to promote it
<siretart> xmms and ffmpeg are pretty unrelated. xmms uses libmad, which bring in the same legal concers as ffmpeg though
<Keybuk> actually
<Keybuk> sorry
<Keybuk> that's a request for the security team to review it
<Keybuk> so the next step is for pitti or keescook to review the source to determine whether we can provide security support for ffmpeg
<mjg59> (*) Current policy appears to be that patent-encumbered code may be distributed in main, but not in ship.
<Keybuk> if they approve it, then it's a request for the archive admins to promote it once it has been seeded
<Keybuk> anyone in core-dev can modify the seeds
<Keybuk> mjg59: that is my understanding, yes
<mjg59> (*) Based on this, it would be reasonable for a version of xine-lib containing ffmpeg code to be in main. However, any package that becomes part of ship must *not* contain this code.
<siretart> I don't think anyone not in the desktop team dares to touch the seeds ;)
<Keybuk> siretart: hmm, most of core-dev have touched them ?
<siretart> aha? - interesting :)
<mjg59> (*) Therefore, assuming the accuracy of the first observation, the TB has no reason to deny the inclusion of ffmpeg code in main *providing* that the technical implementation allows the ffmpeg code to be split from the core xine-lib binary package
<Keybuk> it may be worth posting that as a summary, and requesting the Community Council's input
<siretart> mjg59: I assume you mean 'binary code' and not 'source code' here
<mjg59> (This is predicated upon the accuracy of the first observation. The TB should also internally determine that adequate legal advice has been obtained by Canonical)
<mjg59> siretart: Either
<Keybuk> I would also add:
<Mithrandir> having stuff in main we can't ship on the CDs is a bit bad since people can easily end up including it by mistake by promoting something else.
<mjg59> Mithrandir: This situation already exists. We should ensure that it is hard.
<mjg59> If you feel it's practical, I'd be happy for us to suggest that it be a requirement that the archive allow packages to be tagged as "not ship", or something similar
<Keybuk> (*) This constitutes a recommendation of the TB, however this recommendation is not binding and the Archive Administrators are permitted to deny this.
<siretart> like putting the binary package 'ffmpeg' (ffmpeg command line utilities) and libxine1-ffmpeg
<siretart> to universe?
<mjg59> Having libxine1-ffmpeg in main should be fine
<Keybuk> why would having ffmpeg in main be not fine?
<mjg59> It's just important that it never somehow end up in ship
<Keybuk> they're useful utilities
<siretart> indeed, they are
<mjg59> Keybuk: Do you want to mail this to people, or shall I?
<Keybuk> mjg59: can you
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> Anyone have anything else to add?
<siretart> yes
<Keybuk> siretart: your next step, anyway, is to talk to pitti and keescook and have the MIR approved
<siretart> I'd like an answer to my interim proposal
<Keybuk> regardless of any patent issues, you need their approval
<Keybuk> I don't see how your interim proposal helps anything?
<siretart> read: upload xine-lib and make it use the internal (decoding only) copy
<siretart> Keybuk: it allows having xine-lib 1.1.3 sooner in the archive
<Keybuk> is there a critical or urgent bug this fixes?
<siretart> allowing Riddell to upload a newer amarok
<mjg59> siretart: Given what we've concluded, I don't see any reason for that to be something we need to cover here
<siretart> and buying us additional testing
<mjg59> Do whatever you think is best
<mjg59> With the previous proviso of ensuring that ffmpeg code never appears in ship
<Keybuk> amarok is shipped
<siretart> I think uploading with ffmpeg is best for ubuntu, so we finally get goodies like WMV9 on amd64 :)
<Keybuk> it's part of ubuntu-desktop
<Keybuk>              ^
<Keybuk>              k
<Keybuk> so that's forbid, under our current reading
<mjg59> siretart: Would the ffmpeg code be in a separate binary package?
<siretart> Keybuk: that's no problem. the ffmpeg code in libxine1-ffmpeg does not need to be in ship. amarok just depends on libxine1
<mjg59> I believe you implied it would be
<siretart> mjg59: yes, I already have such packages ready
<mjg59> Yes, then that's fine. Just ensure that nothing depends on libxine1-ffmpeg.
<siretart> as seen in https://code.launchpad.net/people/siretart/+branch/xine-lib/xine-lib.ubuntu.1.1.3
<siretart> yepp, willdo
<mjg59> Ok. I think we're done with this.
<siretart> thanks
<Keybuk> you may want to check the new source with pitti/keescook
<Keybuk> especially if it contains a complete copy of ffmpeg
<Keybuk> just to make sure it wasn't removed for security reasons
<Keybuk> ok, that's the end of the agenda on my screen
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Keybuk> ok, done
<Keybuk> unless we hear a scream from elmo at this point
<mjg59> Right. I'll email a summary.
<Keybuk> thanks
<Keybuk> I'd mail it to the TB and CC
<siretart> well, he (as debian ftpmaster) has approved it for debian/main
<mjg59> Keybuk: Do I want to mail archive admins?
<siretart> at least, he didn't object
<Keybuk> can do
<Keybuk> siretart: the Debian package has had all of the encoding ripped out, no?
<mjg59> Do we have a list for them?
<Keybuk> ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com
<siretart> Keybuk: not all. the 'problematic' ones (to the best knowledge of the package maintainer)
<Robot101> siretart: as a slight aside, do you know how this list of "problematic" encoders was arrived at?
<siretart> Robot101: see my mir. the files README.Debian and patents.txt do have a nice summary
<Keybuk> mjg59: nice summary
<Keybuk> personally I'd like to just enable mp3 support in main once and for all :)
<somerville32> :] 
<mc44> Keybuk: only have to wait till 2011 :)
<siretart> Keybuk: mp3 encoding or decoding support?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:irc.freenode.net] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-01-03
<orangefly> is webmin usefull....???....
<highvoltage> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Jan 22:00: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00: Community Council
<willvdl> @schedule cape town
<willvdl> @schedule Africa/Johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 03 Jan 22:00: Edubuntu | 04 Jan 00:00: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 17:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 18:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 23:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council
<stefg> !schedule
<juliux> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 03 Jan 22:00: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00: Community Council
<willvdl> sorry I'm late
<kalikiana> why late? it's 22 UTC, isn't it?
<kalikiana> so still two hours remaining
<willvdl> @schedule johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 04 Jan 00:00: Xubuntu | 04 Jan 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 17:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 18:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 23:00: Community Council
<ogra> willvdl, we decided to skip it
<willvdl> ah. doh
<ogra> which means we'll have to have the EC meeting next week as well
<ogra> well, i wouldnt hav anything to report ...
<willvdl> cool. no problem. considering there's actually only been effectively 3 working days since our last meeting
<ogra> read ma 2800 mail becklog yesterday, cared for some bugs today and wote some MIRs ...
<ogra> thats all i'd have to report :)
<ogra> we also need to elect a new EC member for jerome, so that gives ussome days to discuss it on the ML
<willvdl> cool. want to stand for EC
<willvdl> MIR?
<ogra> main incusion reports
<ogra> for the apps that move into the supported set
<ogra> i.e. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportEdsadmin
<ogra> its the bureaucracy even developers have to do :)
<willvdl> we know how developers love to write stuff :)
<ogra> heh
<willvdl> oh well, back to #ed
<ogra> yep
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council
<technolalia> does anyone have the url for the xubuntu meeting agenda please?
<ormiret> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<technolalia> thanks
<technolalia> are we waiting for someone, or shall we start?
<vidd_laptop> its been almost half an hour....i say we begin
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<ormiret> somerville32: ping - All the agenda items have your name on them :)
<TheSheep> ormiret: somerville32 said he won't be able to come
<technolalia> as cody isn't here. are there any other of the xubuntu developers here?
* maxamillion appologizes for his extreme tardieness .... boss had him busy with windows related tasks :(
* maxamillion thinks he missed the meeting
<technolalia> nope, there was no meeting
<maxamillion> ah ... well, better that then missing it ... why no xubuntu meeting?
<technolalia> none of the devs turned up
<maxamillion> fair enough
<maxamillion> hrmm... well, then i'm off ... guess I will catch up with cody later
* kalikiana caughs
<kalikiana> no meeting then?
<TheSheep> we did met, just no discussion ;)
<ormiret> at least everybody agrees that way :)
<kalikiana> oh, ok
<kalikiana> then i'll keep playing desmume :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-01-04
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<sfllaw_> @schedule now
<sfllaw_> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Jan 10:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 11:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 16:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sfllaw_> Uhm, hello?
<siretart> sfllaw_: looks like the meeting has started 8 mins ago, according to Ubugtu
<siretart> ;)
<sfllaw_> I'm not netsplit am I?
<sfllaw_> I see nothing.
<ogra> sfllaw_, read your mail ;)
<sfllaw_> I can't.
<sfllaw_> I lost my machine.
<sfllaw_> I can /ping it.
<sfllaw_> But the DNS hasn't updated itself.
<ogra> "we've decided to skip this week's distro team meeting.", > Meetings will resume next week at 2100UTC.
<ogra> >
<ogra> Correction, 1600UTC next week
<sfllaw_> I see.
<ogra> from a mail from scott
<sfllaw_> Thanks.
<fabbione> i don't have this email
<fabbione> when has been sent?
<sfllaw_> I'll tell the fridge guys.
<fabbione> ogra: when did Scott sent the email?
<tkamppeter> I did not get this mail, too.
<tkamppeter> But I had already the feeling that it will not make much sense to have a meeting now, as nearly no one is talking on #ubuntu-devel, they all seem still on vacation.
* fabbione grrs a bit
<cjwatson> sorry, we only decided that today
<cjwatson> it's not as bad as a meeting you didn't expect ...
<fabbione> cjwatson: i agree, but it would still be nice to know with a bit of extra notice...
<cjwatson> but anyway, the summary was that most people have been on holiday, a bunch of people are still on holiday, Scott and I have been setting up phone calls with people, and it wasn't going to be an especially useful meeting
<cjwatson> fabbione: sorry, it was announced the moment it was decided
<fabbione> cjwatson: no problem... i will ship my wife to you in the meantime since i got nothing for being here ;)
<sfllaw_> cjwatson: You're getting a mail-order wife!
<sfllaw_> How exciting!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 09 Jan 09:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 10:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 15:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 06:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 14:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 12:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<nixternal> heh, change that again Ubugtu
<nixternal> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Jan 15:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 12:00: Kubuntu Developers | 11 Jan 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 19:00 UTC: Community Council | 09 Jan 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<fdoving> schedule oslo
<fdoving> @schedule oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 09 Jan 16:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 17:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 20:00: Community Council | 09 Jan 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 10 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<fdoving> do-able.
<nixternal> heh, fdoving the cc meeting is incorrect, i accidentally changed it instead of the kubuntu meeting
<nixternal> fixed now
<nixternal> CC is 2100 on the 9th
<fdoving> i'm only up for the kubuntu meeting.
<Seveas> woah
<Seveas> lots of meetings on the ninth
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 19:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<nixternal> hrmm, i wonder if the Forum Council and the LoCo meeting will run into each other
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-01-05
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 10 Jan 02:00: LoCo Team | 10 Jan 03:00: Forum Council | 10 Jan 06:00: Kubuntu Developers | 10 Jan 08:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 23:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jan 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Jucato> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Jan 15:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 21:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Jucato> @schedule Manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 09 Jan 23:00: LoCo Team | 10 Jan 00:00: Forum Council | 10 Jan 03:00: Kubuntu Developers | 10 Jan 05:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jan 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Joey_> nickserv
<Joey_> ?
<Joey_> MOTD
<Proletariat> hello?
<proletariat420> hello?
<proletariat420> did i miss it?
<lifeless> miss what
<proletariat420> i heard this was a meeting for ubuntu?
<_ion> Please see the topic.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jan 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jan 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu New User's Network | 08 Jan 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-01-07
<Hobbsee> @schedule houston
<Hobbsee> @schedule texas
<Hawkwind> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 07 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu New User's Network | 08 Jan 16:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 09:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 10:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 15:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 06:00: Edubuntu
<Hawkwind> Yeppers, 4pm on Monday
<Hobbsee> ah
<nixternal> muhaha, yes use chicago! :)
<ryanakca> @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 07 Jan 13:00: Ubuntu New User's Network | 08 Jan 17:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 10:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 11:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 16:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu New User's Network | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jan 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<ryanakca> Ready for the meeting?
<gnomefreak> yeah i think so
<ryanakca> hmm... agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda
<ryanakca> shall we start by picking the launchpad logo or ?
* gnomefreak cant bring up a site atm i have 3 uploads and 2 downloads going right now
<ryanakca> ok, keep it for the end then?
<gnomefreak> no im ok
<gnomefreak> just gonna be slow
<gnomefreak> ok im there
* gnomefreak has already downloaded them anyway ;)
<ryanakca> ;)
<gnomefreak> i like the first one for LP
<gnomefreak> with the hand shake
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> same here
<jrib> that's my vote too
<ryanakca> and for the official logo, the one with the bigger heart...
<gnomefreak> agreed
<jrib> yep, big heart looks better than the small one
<ryanakca> hybrid: agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda
<jrib> what's wrong with using the handshake for the official one though?
<ryanakca> So, I presume we've picked our two logos, lp = handshake, official logo (which could go onto our wiki) has the big heart?
<ryanakca> jrib: well, does PWil have a biger version of it?
<gnomefreak> jrib: i like the idea but i dont have a mock up of what it will look like big
<ryanakca> if he does, I'm all for using it... if it still looks nice when it's big
<ryanakca> That way people don
<ryanakca> don't get confused...
<gnomefreak> let me see if i cant comeup with something on it please continue with meeting ill ping when done
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> Hmm... Shall we restart advertising classroom and NUN?
<ryanakca> nixternal had been advertising a lot, and we had great attendance during the courses, but then the advertising stopped and our attendance started to drop...
<jrib> where/how did we advertise before?
<gnomefreak> we need to work backwards in agenda
<ryanakca> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/08/2042213
<gnomefreak> letws find out where we are going what classes to hold before advertising ;)
<gnomefreak> -w
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> good idea
<ryanakca> Where is the NUN going... do we keep having classes? should we recruit some people to bring it back to life?
<ryanakca> What are our goals for the future in other words...
<gnomefreak> its a bit fuzzy :( i have to figure out how to clean it up
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: we need to hold classes we can teach instead of having anyone come in and teach since we saw how that went
<ryanakca> yeah
<jrib> also do we want to repeat classes or come up with new ones?
<ryanakca> people not mailing in their course descriptions/notes, not showing up, etc
<gnomefreak> recrute people to bring it back to life? whats wrong with you and hybrid?
<gnomefreak> there were alot of canceled classes last round
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> and a couple where I was scrambling to write up a class because someone told us at the last minute that they hadn't prepared anything and couldn't show up... even thought that's partially my fault for not bugging them enough ahead of time...
* gnomefreak needs to get through january before i can do much of anything
<ryanakca> well, make it more lively, get more members, so that we can better coordinate things...
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: more members? half the members we have now have done nothing
<gnomefreak> we really need to go through the members list so we know who we can call on when something is needed
<ryanakca> there's lots of people in #ubuntu and #kubuntu who meet the requirements, and might be interested in helping out /actively/
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> There are 47 direct members of the "New User Network" team, and 47 people are members in total, directly and indirectly through other team memberships.
<ryanakca> how many of those 47 actually do something, I'm not sure
<gnomefreak> getting there
<jrib> ok, I don't see anything wrong with recruiting some people to help out
<ryanakca> https://launchpad.net/~newusernetwork   if you need the link instead of going threw people manually
<ryanakca> threw launchpad**
<gnomefreak> i got it just really slow
<ryanakca> jrib: maybe add something to the "HowtoHelpOut" page (I think that's what it was called...)
<gnomefreak> most of these people on here are devels and may not have alot of time
<gnomefreak> atleast the people i know off hand
<ryanakca> And maybe get something added something to that newletter/magazine that they have weekly (or biweekly, or whenever it was, haven't read it in a while..)
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> Weekly News
<ryanakca> that's it...
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: yeah
<gnomefreak> why not make project groups?
<gnomefreak> that way there is a weekly news group
<ryanakca> hmm... like a group for classroom, maybe a group for the mailing list type class with the doc team..., etc? all under the NUN
<gnomefreak> yes
<ryanakca> a weekly news group?
<gnomefreak> forget the avbove
<gnomefreak> but yes something like that
<gnomefreak> that way we know the classes will be covered the docs will be written
<ryanakca> kk
<gnomefreak> atleast try it and at that point we will know where people stand
<ryanakca> sounds good, but we would need to get some people... at the moment, it looks like we have 5-6 active people, if that...
<gnomefreak> i see 3 ;)
<gnomefreak> 4 with hybrid
<gnomefreak> but i agree
<ryanakca> so we've agreed on getting some more people involved...
<ryanakca> how is the question... Weekly News / HowToHelpOut?
<gnomefreak> yeah
<ryanakca> kk
<gnomefreak> i like idea of howtohelpout wiki
<jrib> ryanakca: you mean a weekly news for NUN?
<ryanakca> I think there already is one...
<ryanakca> jrib: no...
<gnomefreak> or change the one we have to fit it
<ryanakca> jrib: just a sec, I'll get you the link to it
<gnomefreak> i think he means marketing teams newsletter
<ryanakca> it's managed by the marketting team
<ryanakca> yeah
<jrib> oh I know about ubuntu weekly news.  So we just want to be mentioned in there then?
<ryanakca> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/705
<ryanakca> yeah
<gnomefreak> btw i need someone on edgy to test opera 9.10 (i have a .deb if needed)
<ryanakca> Anybody who wants to join, please contact ________ or join #ubuntu-nun
<gnomefreak> that should be easy enough
<gnomefreak> to get into there
<jrib> yeah, sounds good
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: I can, later on... Tuesday, or later on tonight...
<ryanakca> this isn't the page I'm talking about, but it's simmilar.. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<gnomefreak> wonders if we can be mentioned on that link
<ryanakca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<gnomefreak> under support
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> hopefully, can't see why not...
<ryanakca> hmm... we're already under contributetoubuntu...
<gnomefreak> the doc guy i would know to ask is gonna be offline for a while
<ryanakca> kk
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: i think it would be helpful for a howtocontribute to nun not just under ubuntu
<ryanakca> yeah
<gnomefreak> btw the .deb will be up here sometime today http://www.youmortals.com/ubuntu/packages/
<gnomefreak> sorry doing like 30 things
<ryanakca> np
<ryanakca> ok
<ryanakca> our class topics have run out. What do we do? loop? think up some more subjects? scrap it?
<gnomefreak> ok we just have to figure out how to get all this done. i asked pwill to fix the icon if he can
<ryanakca> What about asking a Team to give a Marketing Speech on how to get involved every other weekend (where there isn't a course)?   What about making it a great big Ubuntu School, geared towards all users in all ubuntu subjects, (like merge with motu-school, etc), or have teams give courses (instead of or as well of a Marketing Speech)?
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: lets give us a time period to come up with classes (as a group in -nun maybe)
<ryanakca> kk
<gnomefreak> is motu school still holding classes?
<ryanakca> erm, LaserJock was interested in holding some in combination with Classroom, iirc
<ryanakca> but #ubuntu-motu-school currently has 3 people...
<gnomefreak> if we can combine them i say go for it that way we have all classes that can be held
<ryanakca> ok
<gnomefreak> just for classes
<ryanakca> What about making it a great big Ubuntu School, geared towards all users in all ubuntu subjects, (like merge with motu-school, etc), or have teams give courses (instead of or as well of a Marketing Speech)?
<jrib> if we do that, we should classify classes.  Like "beginner", or "advanced"
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: 2 people votes may nto be good enough on these things
<gnomefreak> jrib: agreed
<ryanakca> Like doc could give a course on writing proper documentation, QA could give a course on bug reporting and triaging (crimsun suggested that)..
<ryanakca> jrib: yeah
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: merge the classes with motu as jrib said as beginner/advanced so on
<ryanakca> jrib: well, with the past courses, we started simple and moved up to more complicated
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: yeah, and especially not with MOTU...
<ryanakca> we need to get in touch with them...
* gnomefreak brb have to grab lunch continue 
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> So should we think of having a big Ubuntu School, for all ubuntu subjects... NUN stuff, documentation writing, Bug reporting, packaging, translating, artwork, etc?
<ryanakca> or just keep it to NUN stuff or NUN/MOTU stuff?
<gnomefreak> all stuff or make nun as beginner
<gnomefreak> and motu as advanced (give them the kernel classes packaging (unless you want to hol dpackaging 101
<jrib> yeah, I'd like one central places that manages the classes and makes sure there is an easy way to check for *any* class.  But, it does kind of remove the focus from classes for beginners and people starting out
<gnomefreak> didnt see anything for lunch that caught my eye :(
<gnomefreak> who is head of motu school?
<ryanakca> jrib: well, we could have beginner (NUN material) one weekend, and then MOTU/other stuff the other, and alternate
<ryanakca> erm, dunno, lemme check
<jrib> ryanakca: I like that
<gnomefreak> only problem there is motu classes are held on fridays and nun on weekends
<gnomefreak> problem on handshake icon (big) noone made an svn for it
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: well, most people are at school/work on fridays, so maybe, if they're willing, move it to weekend?
<ryanakca> I'm guessing dholbach, based on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests
<gnomefreak> if they are willing
<gnomefreak> cool
<gnomefreak> hes easy enough to get in otuch with
<ryanakca> yeah
<gnomefreak> ok still working on handshake icon pwill has a svn of one not really the same though
<gnomefreak> opera is up on link finnaly
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/emblems/emblem-handshake.svg ... It isn't bad... wouldn't be bad for launchpad and official wiki if we vote on it...
<gnomefreak> finally
<ryanakca> s/official wiki/nun wiki
<gnomefreak> i dont like the circle i like the ubuntu symbol more so
<ryanakca> kk
* gnomefreak never saw that before
<ryanakca> same
<jrib> yeah I like the handshake inside the ubuntu logo too
<gnomefreak> next on agenda?
<ryanakca> #
<ryanakca> What about a mailing list type course, where every week, we send out an email with a link to a piece of documentation that would interest and affect a large portion of users, 5-10-20 questions based on it, and the answers to the previous week's questions. Also, they mail the list any questions they have on the course material (NOT everyday questions, they can go to kubuntu-users, ubuntu-users, etc, for those).
<gnomefreak> uploding googleearth and im done uploading except maybe the logo
<ryanakca> The doc team  would get their documentation reviewed by many people at the same time too...
<gnomefreak> same class as we held that weekend?
<gnomefreak> like take the transcripts email them out with official docs on it?
<ryanakca> not necessarily
<ryanakca> Just any new doc from the doc team
<gnomefreak> example?
<ryanakca> that way people know about what the doc team is producing at the same time...
<ryanakca> erm...
<gnomefreak> ok i think i got it
<ryanakca> kk
<gnomefreak> we can try it no harm in that
<ryanakca> nope
<ryanakca> we just need to either a) make a new mailing list, or b) get people to subscribe to the NUN mailing list
<gnomefreak> i would like more input from others on that one.
<ryanakca> kk
<gnomefreak> maybe either attach what we decide here to ML or hold another meeting with the postponed things?
<ryanakca> And we pretty much have to restart advertising, right?
<ryanakca> yeah
<gnomefreak> yes
<ryanakca> Well, I sent an email to the ML a while back, never got a reply, I'm assuming it's dormant...
<ryanakca> so probably hold another meeting...
<gnomefreak> i read it ;)
<ryanakca> lol
<gnomefreak> ok what next
<gnomefreak> s
<ryanakca> I think that's it... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda check, feel free to add something if you wish...
<gnomefreak> thats fine we are done is a good
<ryanakca> ok, I guess we're done :)
<ryanakca> thanks for showing up gnomefreak, jrib
<gnomefreak> :)
<sid> What is new users network?
<Hawkwind> !nun
<gnomefreak> lol Hawkwind
<gnomefreak> sid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUN
<sid> thanks
<Hawkwind> Though the bots not here, it should be defined in the bot
<gnomefreak> or not
<gnomefreak> wth
<sid> "This page does not exist yet. You can create a new empty page, or use one of the page templates. Before creating the page, please check if a similar page already exists."
<ryanakca> sid: we help new users out, just a second, I'll get you a link
<ryanakca> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/NewUserNetwork
<gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserNetwork?highlight=%28newusernetwork%29
<ryanakca> we're also in charge of the Classroom project... https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Classroom
<gnomefreak> we really need to redo that page if we are staying on wiki instead of the new wiki
* gnomefreak out
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jan 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 15:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-12-31
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 02 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting
<kraut> moin
<genii> Schuenemann: You're too early ;)
<thekillerplague1> can anyone help
<jpatrick> thekillerplague1: support in #ubuntu
<thekillerplague1> they dont help
<Gunirus> Happy New Year
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-01-01
<kraut> moin
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-01-02
<kraut> moin
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Edubuntu meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development
<Lure_> @schedule Ljubljana
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 03 Jan 00:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development
<mhb> good evening
<nosrednaekim> good evening...
<allee> hi
<Riddell> b  hi
<Riddell> anyone here for a meeting?
<mhb> we sure are
 * seele waves
<Riddell> any memberships?
<Riddell> yuriy?
<yuriy> hi
<Riddell> yuriy: want to be a member?
<yuriy> Riddell: yup
 * Lure is tired, so can spare only half an hour or so
<Riddell> yuriy: could you introduce yourself?
<yuriy> Hi, I'm Yuriy Kozlov
<yuriy> wiki page here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/YuriyKozlov
<yuriy> I've been hanging around here for almost 2 years
<Riddell> yuriy: tell us what you do
<yuriy> and going on occasional bug triaging spurts
<Riddell> and why you love Kubuntu
<yuriy> including trying to organize a big feisty polishing one last march (https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTeam/Bugs)
<Lure> I have to say that he does first class bug traige and has done this for long time
<yuriy> also last march i started the Massachusetts LoCo
<Lure> I will give my +1 based on just that
<yuriy> (along with an other guy who shortly quit)
<yuriy> the team was approved in november
<yuriy> i did a summer of code project in 2006
<yuriy> guidance configuration module for wine (system settings > advanced > windows applications)
<Riddell> yuriy: what does the loco team do?
<yuriy> hey maccam94 (he's a member of the loco)
<Riddell> anyone else here to vouch for yuriy?
<ryanakca> not that my vote counts, but +1 from me, and you're one of those which I've always thought you were already a member :)
<yuriy> Riddell: the loco has organized an install fest and plan to have them regularly
<yuriy> we have monthly meetings and held release parties for feisty and gutsy
<nosrednaekim> they did some sweet case badges too :)
<nosrednaekim> I have one
<yuriy> some members have also done some talks at schools and such
<yuriy> oh yes and the case badges
<yuriy> most of this is now organized by doctormo
<Riddell> well we've met and it was most useful having you at the UDS so +1 from me
<Riddell> but I don't think we have quorum
<Riddell> so we'll need to ask another council member to read the logs and vote later
<Riddell> poke nixternal
<maccam94> hey
<maccam94> sorry for the delay
<maccam94> Yuriy has my support
<yuriy> and most recently i've been working on portin adept to kde4 (and then mornfall showed up this morning with his own)
<nixternal> hello
<nixternal> sorry
<mhb> yuriy: do you have commit access to his branch? Or do you plan to solve this somehow?
<nixternal> I was watching Jeff Waugh on blip.tv :)
<nixternal> yuriy: once again, thought you were a member
<yuriy> mhb: we haven't quite worked it out yet, but I will try to work on his branch
<nixternal> +1 on yuriy from me
<Lure> yuriy: welcome!
<nixternal> welcome yuriy! congrats!
<yuriy> thanks!! : )
<Riddell> great
<Riddell> any other memberships?
<nixternal> sorry for showing up late Riddell..didn't have my irssi notifier running, but I was here :)
<allee> congrats yuriy!
<maccam94> congratulations yuriy!
<yuriy> thanks allee, maccam94
<Riddell> mhb has an agenda item
<mhb> I do. **Â Discuss possibilities of coordinating inter-distribution tasks.
<mhb> what I mean is - there are several small distros using KDE and either APT directly or APT/RPM and I think we should maintain communication channels with them.
<nixternal> PCLOS uses Syanptic
<nosrednaekim> and offer them adept?
<allee> anyone how has good contacts to those distros?
<nixternal> dunno what Ark is using these days
<mhb> for example, we could share a package manager with both PCLinuxOS and Ark Linux theoretically, but we don't.
<nixternal> I have contacts with PCLOS
<mhb> PCLOS uses Synaptic, Ark uses Kynaptic (that old KDE frontend).
<Riddell> poor Ark
<nixternal> PCLOS also uses apt-rpm if I am not mistaken
<mhb> yes
<ryanakca> umm.. I'm probably behind in the news, but what's happening with packagekit (sp?)... isn't that a cross platform frontend?
<nixternal> ryanakca: they aren't finished with apt for one, and 2 they haven't finished a qt front end
<yuriy> has ark worked on kynaptic or is it still the same crashy thing?
<ryanakca> nixternal: ah, ok :)
<nixternal> probably the same crashy thing
<nixternal> don't think ark has a very large developer group
<nixternal> either does PCLOS really
<mhb> we don't have many paid devs either
<nixternal> well they have 0 :)
<nixternal> we at least have 1
<nixternal> haha
<mhb> so I guess it would be for the best if all similar distros had one PM strategy.
<nixternal> sounds like a decent plan to me, it would allow multiple developers from different distros to collaborate
<nixternal> word of warning, PCLOS community totally despises anything *buntu
<Riddell> adept is developed as part of KDE for Debian, so that should be ok :)
<nixternal> I had a hell of a time trying to get some info from them just because of my email addy and my irc hostmask :)
<Riddell> if there are people working on adept then it would make sense for them to contact these distros
<nixternal> very true
 * Riddell looks at yuriy 
 * nixternal does too
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I can talk to devnet from PCLOS to see if he can guide me, or be my bridge over troubled waters
<mhb> right, ask about what they would expect and if they have anything against Adept other than we have against it
<nixternal> I know PCLOS is pretty set on Synaptic until the Qt frontend for PK is complete
<mhb> and what their long term strategy w.r.t package management is
<mhb> whether they considered PackageKit or not, etc.
<mhb> nixternal: interesting
<nixternal> mhb: I am fairly certain that PCLOS is going PK
<nixternal> let me see if devnet is online right now
<allee> nixternal: anyone from PCLOS working/helping with PK qt frontend/apt backend?
<nixternal> damn, he went offline 12 minutes ago
<nixternal> allee: I don't know if they are to be honest
 * imbrandon returns
<nixternal> I haven't heard much from the PK/Qt frontend either for a bit
<Riddell> nixternal: fancy asking ark linux if they have any thoughts too?
<nixternal> ya, we have a local dev here in Chicago I can speak with
<allee> anyone working on this at all?  Is there real interest and momentum behind PK?
<nixternal> allee: there is/was a fairly large push for PK, but it has been silent news wise for some time
<nixternal> I know Foresight is using PK right now
<Riddell> allee: yes, it's pretty active generally
<nixternal> as for other distros, I am not to sure
<Riddell> but the apt backend is lacking
<imbrandon> is it python ?
<Riddell> imbrandon: the apt backend is a mix
<imbrandon> no no i mean PK
<Riddell> that's what I was meaning too
 * imbrandon has been tinkering with a qt4 python app for apt with mvo a bit
<imbrandon> but i doubt it would be ready for hardy
<Riddell> imbrandon: do have a go at fixing the apt PK backend then :)
<imbrandon> useing apt-python
<jcastro> PK discussion at UDS was definately "hardy+1"
<imbrandon> Riddell: yea thats what i was getting at
<imbrandon> :)
<mhb> jcastro: definitely not later than hardy+1 or definitely exactly at hardy+1?
<mhb> err, s/later/earlier
<Riddell> "not hardy"
<jcastro> mhb: what riddell said
<mhb> okay.
<imbrandon> Riddell: do we have any PK contacts ?
<allee> so feeling is adept-qt4 or PK is the future?
<Riddell> allee: anything that works :)
<allee> lol ;)
<Riddell> imbrandon: #packagekit
<imbrandon> Riddell: killer
<imbrandon> hehe dont say "anything that works" because my little python qt4 app "works" but i wouldent put it to wide use yet hehehe
 * imbrandon stops
<Riddell> any other business?
<mhb> the permanent topics
<mhb> perhaps
<nosrednaekim> i've been working a bit on the easy compiz manager for kde3, are totally forgetting about anything kde3?
<nosrednaekim> *are we
<Riddell> nosrednaekim: I'd recommend coding anything in qt 4, that way it can be used for both
<Lure> Riddell: do we care about comiz for kde4?
<Riddell> nosrednaekim: is that based on mhb's work?
<nosrednaekim> Riddell: yeah
<Riddell> Lure: a bit.  it'll always be more powerful than kwin for the silly things
<nosrednaekim> Lure: thats also what I was wondering.
<maccam94> kde4 has it's own compositing
<maccam94> hmm
<Riddell> the major bling lovers will always prefer compiz
<Riddell> nosrednaekim: that's good to hear though, do let us know if you need any help
<maccam94> true
<nosrednaekim> ok.. so i'll keep working on that. I just have to figure out how exactly to get compiz to be the default WM and let compiz know that kwin is backup.
<Riddell> nosrednaekim: set KDEWM
<nosrednaekim> yeah, but then what does it fall back to?
<Lure> Riddell: but the delta between kwin-kde4 and compiz is more or less just stuff that is not really useful, but more of showcase/demo
<maccam94> Riddell: if people want KDE4 though, we should see if there are settings we should choose for a standard KDE4 installation, as well as maybe work with KDE devs on features we might like to see
<mhb> any news on the KDE4 Hardy CDs?
<nixternal> speaking of KDE4, Riddell the packages are confusing as hell to me
<allee> nixternal: ??
<nixternal> they are a mess with where things get installed to
<nixternal> are we still installing everything to usr/lib/kde4 or are some things going into usr/bin and such now
<nixternal> dolphin-kde4 gets installed to usr/bin for example
<allee> sounds like the pkgs need to be rebased on the debian ones
<nixternal> ya, just started doing that...debian doesn't install to a separate directory anymore, they install side-by-side
<mhb> do we have any user feedback on that KDE4 transition idea?
<mhb> after all, user feedback is a permanent topic
<nosrednaekim> kde4 transition idea?
<allee> nosrednaekim: making sure the kde4 version of an app picks up the kde3 settings corrently  (or converts is appropriately)
<nixternal> mhb: typical users are fine with it, there are the select few who are upset about our drop of LTS...even though most typically upgrade every 5 minutes anyways <- jcastro you like that :p
<nosrednaekim> I haven't noticed any regressions between kde3 apps and kde4 ones.
<nosrednaekim> vice versa though.. I have
<nosrednaekim> (in settings being kept)
<seele> speaking of users, are there any config dialogs or apps that could use an interface review?  or any functions or workflows users are complaining about?
<nixternal> seele: KHelpCenter :p
 * nixternal ducks
<seele> ew
<nixternal> haha
<seele> hehe
<nixternal> we need to look at a "rework" of KHelpCenter for 4.1 inclusion possibly
<seele> yeah.. the content needs worked on too
<nixternal> because we should be able to start working on documentation shortly
<seele> there is a lot "missing"
<sahin_h> I'm speeking as a user: kubutu-desktop like meta package will be available for kde4?
<nixternal> everything should be missing...nobody responded to our call for documentation (our being Phil and I)
<nixternal> sahin_h: you can count on it
 * allee wonders if it's not easier to make kde docs qt assistant friendly instead of fighting with khelpcenter
<seele> no, old kde files havnet been maintained in general
<sahin_h> nixternal: thanks
<seele> or point to a website instead of just providing it in the help system
<nixternal> allee: I have been playing with a simple Qt help app that can parse .xml/.docbook and what not
<nixternal> sounds feasible to me
<nixternal> another idea about 6 months ago was Okular
<nixternal> but that would make a ToC kind of difficult to create
<allee> nixternal: since I saw how easy and reliable assistant indexing works I'm a fan of it.  (khelpcenter indexing never worked here ;)
 * mhb wonders how Windows, OS X handles that
<nixternal> khc indexing relied on a broken htdig
<mhb> that == documentation center
<nixternal> docbook
<nixternal> at least I know windows uses docbook -> chm conversion for their help
<fdoving> that "bug" with htdig beeing broken have like 100 dupes.
<nixternal> that type of help system, aka topic based help, is what we are trying to move towards
<fdoving> so people actually try to read docs.
<nixternal> fdoving: they better
<seele> they do
<nixternal> otherwise my job is useless
<seele> they'll use it more than once if the documentation is good
<nixternal> I think the amount of bug report concerning typos shows there are a lot of people reading the help docs
<fdoving> nowdays everything needs to be searchable. especially docs.
<nixternal> yup
<fdoving> so that's essential.
<nixternal> maybe I will make that my project for KDE 4
<nixternal> Windows Vista help is totally sweet I might say
<allee> I vaguely rememeber qt 4.4 has introduces another help/doc system
<nixternal> you have the option to search help locally and via the www
<nixternal> allee: I will research that
<seele> what documentation does it search on the web?
<seele> microsoft documents or general web pages?
<nixternal> seele: microsoft docs in msdn and what not
<seele> ah
<nixternal> ya, nothing off hand
<nixternal> it is all controlled documentation
<nixternal> one thing I know project mallard people talked about was cross-communications with a wiki page, which is fine, however anyone can edit a wiki
<nixternal> would be cool to allow wiki searching, but with a warning, as well as forums searching, but with a warning
<nixternal> so a help center with a pluggable backend for stuff like forums and wiki might be something to think about as well
<seele> what do people usually use to create the docbook entries?  or do they convert from xml?
<nixternal> docbook is xml
<nixternal> or is a DTD for xml
<seele> ah ok
<seele> shows you how much documentation i do :P
<nixternal> plain old text, use meinproc to convert to html if necessary
<nixternal> but khc reads/parses docbook
<nixternal> I love documentation, been doing it for a long time
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-01-03
<allee> need sleep, sorry.  nite!
<nealmcb> @schedule denver
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 23 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting
<kraut> moin
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-01-04
 * ogasawara waves
<pedro_> happy new year!
<heno> hi everyone!
<nand> hi!
<bdmurray> hello
<liw> hola
<stgraber> hello
<davmor2> lo
<pedro_> iorana
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:07. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] QAPoll module status. Names and subdomains to be chosen for the qapoll websites. (nand)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QAPoll module status. Names and subdomains to be chosen for the qapoll websites. (nand)
<nand> Yes. I wanted to give you a small update on the qapoll module.
<heno> ok, I also need to ask about domain names
<nand> Currently all the features discussed on the spec are implemented. There is a few rough edges to fix
<nand> https://wiki.stgraber.org/UbuntuQA/QAPoll/TODO
<nand> I think in around two weeks it will be ready for testing
<nand> Now, as you pointed, we need to choose the name and domains  names
<nand> we have two parts : the part concerning bugs. I propose "Ubuntu most hated bugs" and the domain vote-bugs.ubuntu.com
<nand> What do you think?
<heno> so here is one problem:
<nand> heno: yes?
<nand> domain names?
<heno> the sysadmins don't think we should point qa.ubuntu.com directly at this server
<heno> because it's supposed to be an isolated box for this PHP code
<heno> which makes it more dificult to put things like bug graphs on qa.u.c later
<davmor2> heno why not testing.ubuntu.com?
<heno> davmor2: that sounds good
<heno> testing.* vote-ideas.* and vote-bugs.* ?
<heno> if we point those at that box then apache/drupal will do rh
<heno> the right thing?
<davmor2> sounds feasible and easy enough to remember :)
<nand> it is ok with me
<stgraber> heno: hmm, so qa.ubuntu.com won't point to our server ?
<nand> some htaccess work to do :)
<heno> will it work technically?
<nand> heno: Yes, we can
<stgraber> heno: what happens to our QA websites page summary then (listing all the sub-websites) ?
<heno> stgraber: looks like that, yes
<heno> we'll need to separate out the name space
<stgraber> hmm, IIRC bdmurray bugstats are just python scripts generating static html pages right ?
<stgraber> and we already have python on our box as some of my scripts need it (and a fresh python-launchpad-bugs)
<heno> that's not the point though
<nand> can we go back to titles?
<heno> it was agreed that the custom PHP code (our QA site) would go on a dedicated box with nothing else
<heno> to limit any possible damage from an attack
<heno> with 'testing' we can do iso.testing mozilla.testing, etc I guess
<heno> ok, I'll discuss this further with elmo
<heno> nand: did we cover what you wanted on titles?
<stgraber> heno: eventually what we can do is have some sub-domains not pointing to the qawebsite server ?
<nand> heno: not yet.
<stgraber> heno: testing may not be appropriate for all the modules we have on the qawebsite ...
<stgraber> (sorry I'm doing 3-4 things at the same time so can't follow the meeting as well as I would like to)
<heno> stgraber: indeed. can we do those as separate sub-domains, pointing at the server?
<heno> or can we come up with something other than 'qa'?
<stgraber> heno: it's just about the DNS, currently *.qa.ubuntu.com points to kumquat
<stgraber> they can easily make qa.ubuntu.com (main domain) to point to another
<stgraber> or a sub-domain like bugstats.qa.ubuntu.com and make it points to a python powered server
<heno> if we point all of qa.u.c at that server then we have to make an exception for each new project and page under qa right?
<stgraber> I asked that "by default" all sub-domains point to the qawebsite server as it will let us create new team sub-website easily, but there is no problem to make some other custom subdomains
<stgraber> yes, but I think that we are more likely to have new sub-domains to point to the qawebsite than to a python powered box, so the default setting is good in that way
<stgraber> it's just about adding a line to a DNS zone (which would have to be done anyway be it on qa. or testing.)
<stgraber> so as it's setup currently (btw, it now works !!!), blahblah.qa.ubuntu.com will point to the qawebsite, but you can ask a sysadmin to make it point to another server
<stgraber> I don't think we absolutely need two different domains
<heno> ok, let's discuss it further with the sysadmins after the meeting
<nand> OK, quickly then to go on : I propose "Ubuntu most hated ideas" for the bug voting part, and "Ubuntu idea brainstorming" for the idea voting part. These names will be their public names and are to be easily identifiable. What do you think of the names?
<nand> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/ubuntu-brainstorm-3/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/ubuntu-brainstorm-3/
<nand> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/ubuntu-brainstorm-6/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/ubuntu-brainstorm-6/
<heno> 'hated' is a strong word
<nand> great icon artwork work by thorwil :)
<nand> heno: what do you suggest?
<bdmurray> annoying?
<heno> most prominent, annoying, painful
<davmor2> bloody?
<liw> popular?
<liw> notorious?
<pedro_> something which don't include violence ?
<heno> most loved :)
<nand> I don't think popular can stand for a bug :)
<pedro_> i like popular :-)
<heno> pedro_: +1
<liw> celebrious?
<nand> really?
<heno> favourite
<nand> (English is not my mother tongue btw)
<heno> it isn't for most of us
<davmor2> bin-the-
<nand> "most annoying bugs"?
<heno> top 100 ubuntu bugs
<bdmurray> Ubuntu Cockroaches
 * nand look at the dictionary...
<heno> that's quite good :)
<pedro_> that's bigger than a "bug" i like that
<nand> but is it a common word?
 * pedro_ singing la cucaracha
<nand> easily understandable by the average person?
<davmor2> biggest-bug
<liw> slugs?
<heno> ubuntu bug vote, bug ranking
<bdmurray> Isn't a cockroach a bug that is hard to kill?
<liw> bdmurray, on the one hand, nuclear weapons won't kill it; but on the other, a shoe will
<heno> it's a certain genus or some such
<bdmurray> right so I thought it fitted with the bug theme well
<nand> I like "most annoying bug", it is quite neutral, and IMO bug is a word any non-first-english-tongue will know
<liw> (for the record, I'm pretty happy with any name; I don't care about the color of this particular bikeshed)
<davmor2> worst-bug
<heno> I think we can go with that; this can be changed later
<nand> yes.
<nand> for the idea counterpart, is it ok?
<nand> "Ubuntu idea brainstorming"?
<heno> i agree with liw though I would like to avoid hatred
<heno> nand: looks good
<liw> heno, that would probably have been pedro, I guess (but no matter, I'm happy to avoid the hating)
<heno> [AGREED] "Ubuntu idea brainstorming" and "Annoying Ubuntu bugs"
<MootBot> AGREED received:  "Ubuntu idea brainstorming" and "Annoying Ubuntu bugs"
<nand> Ok. Then I'm done for today :)
<heno> [TOPIC] QA server status - feasible to use this for Alpha 3 testing?
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA server status - feasible to use this for Alpha 3 testing?
<heno> some naming issues to be resolved ...
<heno> so we'll see. next
<heno> [TOPIC] Wiki page restructuring update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Wiki page restructuring update
<stgraber> the website as it is work
<stgraber> I'm currently giving you some rights on it to access the current version of qapoll
<stgraber> but it's running : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<heno> oh, it's up now :)
<stgraber> yes
<heno> woo!
<heno> I missed it
<nand> stgraber: yes please :)
<stgraber> if you guys can just go to : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/user and give me your idea
<stgraber> s/idea/id/ :)
<heno> stgraber and davmor2 thanks for the great work on wiki pages
<stgraber> the id will appear in the URL just after /user
<heno> it's gradually taking shape
<nand> stgraber: 352
<davmor2> heno: np will actually do some work on them over the weekend :)
<heno> liw: note the landing page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation
<liw> heno, yep
<heno> I think we can jump to:
<heno> [TOPIC] Kernel bug day - Shall we reschedule it?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel bug day - Shall we reschedule it?
<bdmurray> stgraber: 89
<heno> bdmurray, ogasawara ^
<ogasawara> I'd be interested in rescheduling the kernel bug day
<bdmurray> yes for Wednesday, I'll rerun the queries on that page today
<heno> ok cool
<ogasawara> just note Alpha3 is set to release next Thursday
<bdmurray> it'll be a good test of the the p-l-b text interface
<heno> [AGREED] kernel bug day on Wednesday
<MootBot> AGREED received:  kernel bug day on Wednesday
<heno> and speaking of LP:
<heno> [TOPIC] LP bug reporting guidelines
<MootBot> New Topic:  LP bug reporting guidelines
<heno> how do we take advantage of this feature? [WWW] https://help.launchpad.net/BugReportingGuidelines What additional features would be useful? (more granularity)
<bdmurray> I wanted to see an example of it in action so e-mailed launchpad-users
<heno> I need to find out who the 'owner' of ubuntu is
<heno> Matt or Mark I guess
<heno> I guess we should link to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<bdmurray> Most probably but the wiki page makes it sound like multiple dialogs are presented
<bdmurray> If that is the case it might be useful to have a guideline about good summaries, descriptions etc
<bdmurray> It'd be helpful if there was a place to test it also
<heno> indeed. let's ping mrevell if nothing else turns up
<stgraber> bdmurray: I only see one "Bug reporting guidelines:" box on LP ...
<heno> any other business?
<bdmurray> stgraber: where is that?
<nand> yes : which one do you prefer : http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/ubuntu-brainstorm-6/ ?
<stgraber> bdmurray: Edit details when you are a project owner
<heno> on the qa website proj?
<heno> I like 3 and 4, nand
<nand> heno: Don't you think it is over-stylized?
<bdmurray> stgraber: found it thanks
<nand> I like it much, but I don't know if it will make a good logo
<pedro_> nand: i like the 4, it look more tangoish
<heno> yes, I like some on http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/ubuntu-brainstorm-4/ better
<heno> 2b for example
<heno> or 3b
<nand> heno: I required the ubuntu branding as the logo would be shown on the "image links" displayed on non-ubuntu contexts
<nand> the image links feature : example at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas/item/2/promote
<heno> then how about "Ubuntu bug focus"?
<bdmurray> stgraber: could we add some bug guidelines to the ubuntu-qa-website for testing?
<heno> (as much as I hate to return to the bikeshed :)
<stgraber> bdmurray: sure
<nand> heno: the one at the total right?
<bdmurray> stgraber: the home page for the project should change too right?
<nand> (no problem, I wanted some feedback on it :) )
<stgraber> bdmurray: yes
<heno> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/ubuntu-brainstorm-3/ is lovely too :)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/ubuntu-brainstorm-3/ is lovely too :)
<nand> heno: Yes, thorwil was awesome on this one!
<nand> It will be the one used on the idea part
<heno> cool
 * stgraber likes this one (for a QA-Poll announcement) : http://bp3.blogger.com/_95-BHeta7y8/R3toSwX_kJI/AAAAAAAAASg/bT1v2EaGe2Q/s1600-h/bug.png
<nand> stgraber: Yeah!!
<nand> (context: http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/ )
<heno> :)
<nand> ok so I will see with thorwil on the bug icon
<heno> thanks
<heno> I think we're done
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:01.
<heno> thanks everyone!
<pedro_> thanks you
 * persia looks for a volunteer to chair the MOTU Meeting today
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:05. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> Welcome to the MOTU Meeting for 4th January 2008.  The agenda is available on the wiki.
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<Adri2000> hi :)
<persia> Our agenda is empty for today: anyone have any topics they wish to bring up for discussion?
<persia> That makes it easy then.  We've only administration tasks :)
<persia> [TOPIC] Next MOTU Meeting Date
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next MOTU Meeting Date
<persia> Any nominations for date & time?
<persia> In the absence of other proposals, how about 12:00 UTC 18th January?
 * persia seeks at least one ACK for procedural purposes, as a self-meeting isn't ideal
<nand> persia: Shall I stand up and ack? :)
 * persia cheers nand
<persia> [AGREED] The next MOTU Meeting will be 12:00 UTC 18th January 2008
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The next MOTU Meeting will be 12:00 UTC 18th January 2008
<nand> :)
<stgraber> :)
<persia> Any volunteers to send announcements for the next meeting (fridge schedule, 2 ML posts (1 week before, 2 days before)?
<persia> [ACTION] persia to send announcements for the next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to send announcements for the next meeting
<persia> Any volunteers to draft minutes of the meeting?
<stgraber> can't MootBot do that ?
<persia> stgraber: It's a matter of changing the MootBot Summary into English on the wiki, and posting it also to the ML.
<persia> An example of the summarised minutes is available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-12-21 (which is not a MootBot interesting link)
<stgraber> I certainly can do that, but I'm not subscribed to the ML, so only works if someone can moderate the mail :)
<persia> [ACTION] stgraber to post minutes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  stgraber to post minutes
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:26.
<stgraber> so much activity in a meeting, unbelievable :)
<persia> stgraber: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20080104_2005.html and http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20080104_2005.html are likely helpful :)
<stgraber> well, my screen is big enough to see the whole meeting log without scrolling :)
<nand> Holidays, holidays...
<persia> stgraber: That makes it easy then :)  Thanks for prepping the minutes.  Please also update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/Minutes when the wiki page is complete.
<stgraber> persia: http://pastebin.com/m6579bb9f can you send that to the list ?
<persia> stgraber: Just send it to ubuntu-motu@ and it will get accepted by the moderators.  Might take a couple hours, but I think giving you credit is more important that posting an update immediately, given the weighty issues discussed :)
<persia> s/that/then/
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> hmm, looks like it's not too heavy trafic and it's interesting discussion, I'll subscribe to this ML :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-01-05
<Hattory> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 09 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 23 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 12:00 UTC: MOTU
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-12-30
<zed> hi there !
<yann2> what time is the server meeting?
<yann2> 16UTC? mmh oh then I must have missed it :(
<Nafallo> 30 Dec 16:00: Server Team
<kagou> Start: 2008-12-30 16:00 Timezone: Etc/GMT
<yann2> kagou > and are we GMT+1 or +2? :]
<Nafallo> @France
<kagou> yann2, your are in France ? ^^
<yann2> kagou > yes :)
<Nafallo> hrmm. no idea how that works :-P
<Nafallo> @time
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: December 30 2008, 15:24:47 - Next meeting: Server Team in 35 minutes
<kagou> +1
<Nafallo> @time France
<yann2> mmh ok :)
<ubottu> Error: Unknown timezone: France - Full list: http://ubottu.com/timezones.html
<yann2> @time Paris
<Nafallo> @time Paris
<ubottu> Current time in Europe/Paris: December 30 2008, 16:25:05 - Next meeting: Server Team in 34 minutes
<ubottu> Current time in Europe/Paris: December 30 2008, 16:25:05 - Next meeting: Server Team in 34 minutes
<Nafallo> \o/
<kagou> yes :
<yann2> ok in half an hour then :)
<kagou> :)
 * persia doubts the server meeting will be held this week, but looks forward to it, just in case.
<yann2> yeah I'm a bit unsure too :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Dec 17:00: Kernel Team | 31 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 31 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java
<yann2> anyone? :]
<nealmcb> \o/
<yann2> :'(
<zed> :)
<yann2> as there is a ubuntu server meeting and it seems I am the only one attending I suggest that decisions should be taken by me :]
<[NikO]> o/
<persia> yann2, There will likely be a real meeting next week.
<yann2> persia > I know, it's alright :) just came to discuss about cgi's
<yann2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/WebArchitecture
<yann2> its likely to take ages to get anything improved so a week more or less
<persia> yann2, Doesn't that only require some MIRs?
<yann2> MIRwhat?
<persia> Well, whichever things you want in main.
<persia> Main Inclusion Report
 * persia looks for docs
<yann2> well, fastcgi is not good enough to be in main
<persia> Well, then I'd think that'd be the first part to fix :)
<persia> Or find another way to run PHP fast and in separated processes
<persia> Or find another tool to write the code.
<Nafallo> \o/ SPACE STATION \o/
<yann2> persia > yeah, that is all the issue :P
<persia> yann2, Does that need a meeting?  I'd think it just needed coding.
<yann2> well basically i wanted to know ubuntu's advice on using php in a safe way
<Nafallo> yann2: well. don't? ;-)
<yann2> :P
 * Nafallo hides
<yann2> idea is, make the point that there may be an issue (or learn how to do it properly if there is a way) and try to improve packaging and modules if there is not
<persia> Generally I've heard that PHP is hard to use safely.
<yann2> yeah but it's quite a big issue :P
<yann2> PHP apps aren't the safest
<yann2> so if the install is not safe neither...
<yann2> we don't want other locowebsites to be hacked to we? :P
<Nafallo> I proposed throwing PHP out of Ubuntu some years ago... ;-)
<yann2> we are trying to use fastcgi for both python and PHP
<persia> True, but I'd think that there are two ways forward: either suggest an alternate technology, or investigate why it isn't safe, and figure out why.
<yann2> and we notice that python doesnt work 100% properly with fastcgi, and that fastcgi isn't exempt of bugs
<yann2> persia > well I suggested fastcgi
<yann2> but it needs attention :)
<yann2> Safe Mode was removed in PHP 6.0.0.
<persia> Understood.  I'm just not sure how a meeting helps that.
<yann2> uhuh. wonder how php apps will be secure with php6...
<yann2> persia > so how should I come up with the problem?
<persia> How do you mean?
<yann2> if php6 removed safe mode if means there is no way (even ugly) to run php in an even slightly secure way
<persia> In that case, I'd suggest that PHP isn't the right tool to use.
<yann2> that doesn't help me much :P and ubuntu.com is using php :)
<persia> Then the question to ask is: what needs to change to make PHP safe?
<yann2> persia > well CGI with suexec makes it safe
<yann2> mod_fastcgi makes it fast
<persia> And what's wrong with mod_fastcgi?
<yann2> developped by a single guy, buggy, not properly documented, ...
<persia> So it needs help?
<yann2> I am not a hardcore C developer :)
<persia> Are the bugs well documented?
<yann2> basically I just wanted to see if people agreed that there was a problem, and start a discussion if it could be improved
<yann2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/162082
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 162082 in php5 "PHP fastcgi with PHP_FCGI_CHILDREN doesn't kill children when parent is killed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<yann2> fastcgi randomly looses children, which is pretty bad ;)
<yann2> it also doesn't handle some EAGAIN signals from other bug reports I've seen, these people telling me it was important - but I don't know much about that other one
<yann2> and ultimately, it's in universe
<yann2> but, yeah, I don't hope to get this fixed anytime soon, so one week more or less :P
<persia> Well, converting from main to universe is trivial, if it's not buggy, so let's ignore that bit for now.
<persia> Still, I don't think a discussion in a meeting will help: it sounds like you need a developer to help track down and fix the bugs.
<yann2> nah, I wanted to know if there was a secure way to run php, and if not, to get acknowledged that there was an issue and that it may get fixed at some point when a dev has time
<yann2> at least that was the idea :P
<persia> Well, my understanding was that there were two classes of issues with PHP: firstly that it was hard to create a secure environment for it, and secondly that there were language features that encouraged insecure development practices.
<yann2> but the first step is to agree that there is a problem, and the best way I thought to get this done was to raise it during a meeting
<persia> Mind you, either of these could be incorrect: it's just hearsay.
<yann2> glad to hear I'm not the only one fighting with it :)
<yann2> my very basic requirement is that if I am running two sites, one for A, and one for B, B doesn't get destroyed if A gets hacked
<persia> Well, I'd recommend rather putting it as an idea on brainstorm, and once you have a strong number of votes, and some more input on the correct solution, put together a spec.
<persia> It would get lost in a meeting, mostly.
<yann2> as it would in brainstorm unless I start linking it everywhere...
<yann2> it's a very technical issue so most people won't even know what it is
<yann2> is there a brainstorm for ubuntu-server?
<persia> No, it's all the same brainstorm.  Splitting it up into lots of little brainstorms would just make it even harder to track.
<yann2> so you are saying brainstorm is the best way to report that type of issue?
<persia> Of the mechanisms available, yes.
<persia> Really, what you want to do is find a developer who wants PHP to be fast and secure, and get them to help out.
<yann2> what's the meeting about then? :/
<yann2> pretty much :)
<persia> Tends to be status summary of work underway.
<yann2> ok
<persia> If you want to identify new work, that's best done by getting something discussed at UDS.
<yann2> maybe I can report this as a bug in launchpad
<yann2> i know, but a/ the US are very far :) b/ I don't really agree with their immigration policies
<persia> But regardless, the key is really to get some developer interested, for which meetings tend not to be ideal mechanisms: meetings rather being used for developers to share their current activities.
<yann2> I guess I'll have to wait for UDS to come over
<persia> Well, there's remote participation, as well.
<yann2> bah. I'll open a launchpad bug, and maybe some day someone will realize how fucked up the situation really is :(
<persia> yann2, I think the fact that PHP isn't secure is widely disseminated.  Whether it can be secure is an interesting question.
<yann2> it is as secure as any other web app, if you want my advice.
<persia> That said, the trick is not to get someone to realise the issues with the current situation, but rather to get someone to want to make PHP work, rather than selecting something else when they discover PHP isn't secure.
<yann2> CGI doesnt really make a difference if its PHP python or bash
<persia> Oh, I agree.  I personally don't think CGI can be made secure.  I think that needs a sandboxed application server system.
<yann2> persia > disagree on this, it's even the usual way to do it. Open a bug, get people to confirm it, find an issue, get someone to fix it, patch it, test it, deploy :)
<yann2> s/issue/solution
<yann2> well ultimately you could chroot your fastcgi apps
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 31 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java
<yann2> which wouldnt make it 100% secure but a lot more secure :)
<persia> That's an interesting idea: it provides the sandbox.
<yann2> file permissions can also provide a sandbox - kind of.
<yann2> runnnig as a low privileged user is pretty much the same as using mod_php and www-data
<persia> Well, not really, because they application isn't restricted from accessing system files well.  That's the current solution, isn't it?
<yann2> yes
<yann2> well, there is apparmor then...
<yann2> never tried this on a webserver, i probably should
<yann2> would need developping an apparmor profile, surely this could be made by the distro
<persia> Well, "by the distro" is mostly just by us, no?
<yann2> by the distro means it should be made easy to the final sysadmin, ie the sysadmin deploying shouldnt have to rewrite the rules every time
<yann2> #312493  - some day.. maybe :)
<persia> Oh, I'd agree with that: I still think it needs someone to do it.
<persia> Fastest way to get it done is to investigate apparmor, write a draft profile, and get it included.
<yann2> well to get apparmor you would need fastcgi first...
<persia> But fastcgi is already in Ubuntu, and likely compiled in an apparmor compatible way.
<yann2> .. but it's in universe, buggy, and not sure about apparmor :)
<persia> Again, moving from universe to main is trivial.  Also, I'm not sure the distinction will remain, based on the discussions on archive reorganisation.
<yann2> you mean I would get support from canonical for universe? that'd be surprising
<yann2> btw yeah you say it's trivial, but if it was in main I would use it at my company (I'm from the happy few with support :P) and expect them to fix the bugs - so it would mean quite a lot :)
<yann2> longer term (1-2 years) I'd like to see ubuntu as a good web hosting distro, with a safe and fast way to run php/python apps by default and in a supported manner, with apparmor policy etc etc
<persia> Well, that presumes the not-quite-accurate assumption that "main" == "applications with support provided by Canonical".
<yann2> gotta start somewhere  :P
<yann2> mh?
<yann2> they can't be 100% involved in all the packages in main but at least my bug reports would draw attention to them right? :(
<yann2> anyway - at least I am glad you agree the current setup isn't optimal, that's my first step :)
<persia> I don't know much about how Canonical support works, but I do know that the set of applications for which that support is provided doesn't match main, and that there was a bug about that, and it was fixed in intrepid.
<persia> There's now some gui that lets one identify which specific packages are supported.
<persia> Anyway, that's not really important.
<persia> The important part is that you've identified something that you consider a problem.
<persia> You've specifically identified three strategies that could help improve it: 1) fixing bugs in fastcgi, 2) chrooting individual websites (as opposed to the web server itself), and 3) creating an apparmor profiles.
<persia> Since you've said that you aren't yet proficient in C, I'd recommend concentrating on 3) for now, as that's likely most accessible without much C.
<yann2> no wait it is *very* important to me :|
<yann2> and I got support for hardy :x
<yann2> actually I think the bug is important and affects many website
<yann2> so I may spend some time trying to get a what-i-consider-to-be-secure appliance...
<yann2> and document in a more wider form the issues , solutions, with proof o concepts, benches etc
<yann2> it's a good two months of work but bah, someone gotta do it :(
<persia> That sounds like the right path.
<persia> I'm sure you'll end up with some suggested changes to the default configuration, and some patches as a result of that investigation.
<persia> I'm also fairly sure it shouldn't be very hard to get those applied to the packages in the repos so that nobody else has to repeat the work.
<yann2> well it is going to be based on fastcgi which is lacking a lot of attention
<yann2> but it's interesting work :)
<persia> Somehow I think that once you get started, and start publishing and sharing your results, you'll find like-minded people to help get the attention it needs.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 31 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Dec 16:00: Foundation Team | 31 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership
<nealmcb> bug 312493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312493 in ubuntu "Not possible to run PHP in a multiuser and secure way" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312493
<yann2> nealmcb > comments and additional description to come soon ;)
<nealmcb> yann2, persia: thanks for the server team meeting conversation.  you should have done a "startmeeting" first though - makes it easier to record.  No reason not to....
<yann2> nealmcb > it wasnt a meeting, really :)
<yann2> but we should hae discussed on -server, ack and sorry for that
<nealmcb> but it was a conversation that you'll want to refer the server team to - there are folks that would read it and provide feedback
<yann2> nealmcb > i will add further descrpition to my wiki page and launchpad bug and refer server team people to it - I need some time to clarify my mind about what is technicaly posible
<nealmcb> yann2: thanks - even better.  persia asked good questions :)
<yann2> i want to try fastcgi with apparmor and chroot first, see how it works and what it improves
<yann2> and if I get it to work, write a doc how I did it, and study if it can be made easy enough for general purpose
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-12-31
<Apteno> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1785 ???
<Apteno> no event ?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Foundation Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Dec 17:00: QA Team | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership
<Apteno> no event at all ??? strange !
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting
<kagou> Bonne annÃ©e Ã  tous
<McPeter> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<RainCT> Happy new year! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-01-01
<none1> Hey, someone I could recommend a program that monitors dumeter for unbuntu the internet showing the rate of download and upload?
<bazhang> none1, support in #ubuntu
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting
<persia> Not really: there's no meeting today.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council
<stdin> persia: blame the fridge
<persia> stdin, No, I blame myself.  I failed to respond to the "Will there be a meeting query" in a timely manner.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jan 19:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-01-03
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 06 Jan 16:00: Server Team | 06 Jan 17:00: Kernel Team | 06 Jan 21:00: Community Council | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council
<jjesse> meeting here?
<nhandler> Yep
<nixternal> apachelogger: the floor looks like it will be all yours ;)
<nixternal> we have 2 people going for membership
<nixternal> no timido around?
<nixternal> we need to hurry this meeting too, as I have to get to the city and give a presentation in 2 hours
<nhandler> Is that the global bug jam presentation nixternal ?
<nixternal> yup
<alkisg> @schedule Europe/Athens
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Athens: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers 05 Jan 22:00: EMEA Membership | 06 Jan 18:00: Server Team | 06 Jan 19:00: Kernel Team | 06 Jan 23:00: Community Council | 07 Jan 05:00: America's Council
<apachelogger> nixternal: you are too busy
<nixternal> tell me about it
<nixternal> apachelogger: you just need to employ me, so I won't be so busy :)
<[NikO]> arg emea membership change
<apachelogger> you could read my mails, it won't be much fun though :P
<nixternal> interesting
<apachelogger> not even that :P
<nixternal> [NikO]: I don't know if it has been changed or not to be honest
<nixternal> it looks as if all of the dates are shifted 2 days
<[NikO]> before it was 05 janv 21:00
<nixternal> because today is the 3rd, and we are doing our meeting now and not the 5th
<nhandler> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 06 Jan 16:00: Server Team | 06 Jan 17:00: Kernel Team | 06 Jan 21:00: Community Council | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council
 * nixternal checks the fridge
 * apachelogger pokes Riddell
<Riddell> Happy New Year Friends
<[NikO]> sorry i miss a |
<nixternal> [NikO]: fridge.ubuntu.com has the correct dates and times...look there
<nixternal> it seems the silly bot is broken
<jjesse> happy new year Riddell
<Riddell> what's all this about another meeting?
<nixternal> [NikO]: seems I did too :)  ooops
<yuriy> happy new year everyone
<nixternal> Riddell: jusst a misunderstanding with the topic
<[NikO]> happy new year too
<Riddell> phew
<nixternal> there needs to be a | after the Kubuntu Developers in the topic
<nixternal> as it looks like "Kubuntu Developers 05 Jan 20:00
<nixternal> anywho,
<nixternal> HAPPY NEW YEARS ALL!
<apachelogger> HNY to everyone but the topic
<Riddell> did we all have a nice christmas and hogmanay?
<jjesse> i've had better
<nixternal> sure did :)
<nixternal> haha, same here :p
<nixternal> should we kick off with new members?
<Riddell> no timido around
<nixternal> that's fine, lets go with nhandler
<Lure> happy new year to all kubuntu ninjas
<NCommander> hola
<Riddell> nhandler: care to introduce yourself?
<nixternal> nhandler: please give us an introduction about yourself
<apachelogger> Wiki: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/nhandler LP: https://launchpad.net/~nhandler
<nhandler> My name is Nathan Handler, and I started using Ubuntu right before Edgy was released. I started contributing in Gutsy, and recently became a MOTU. I am no working on making Kubuntu a great distro
<nixternal> isn't it already a great distro?
<coreymon77> hi guys
<nhandler> nixternal: I never said it wasn't. But even a great distro can be made better
<coreymon77> actually managed to make it this time
<nixternal> groovy
<Riddell> nhandler: what's the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team?
<coreymon77> hows everyone doing?
<nhandler> Riddell: It is a team led by bodhi_zazen. It helps out on the forums and on irc. It also has Focus groups to help out on LP and the wiki and with other areas
<nhandler> IRC channel is #ubuntuforums-beginners
<Riddell> nhandler: to help beginners presumably?
<nixternal> I can attest to nhandler and his work here in the community...he is a perfect ninja candidate, not only because he is pretty much a neighbor, but because he has worked hard in MOTU land and has taken off...many people in MOTU world are really impressed with him, as I am as well
<nhandler> Riddell: Mainly. But it is also there to help anyone with questions
<nhandler> Since I started focusing on Kubuntu, I have packaged plasmoid-spellcheck and plasmois-playwolf, and I have updated kcolor-edit, kgrab, kio-gopher, and kopete-cryptography. I have also reviewed some Kubuntu packages on REVU.
<Riddell> nhandler: can you see yourself doing more ninjas (KDE main modules packaging) work?
<coreymon77> well, his wiki and launchpad pages are sure pretty impressive
<apachelogger> nhandler: why did it take you so long to join the kubuntu squad?
<nhandler> Riddell: I am hoping to get into that. I have read through the various scripts, and am ready to help out in any way that I can
<nixternal> http://hall-of-fame.ubuntu.com/  - one of the busiest sponsors for comments and uploads, the top REVU'er
<vorian> I believe nhandler is planning on helping us with the next rounds of packaging Riddell.
<nixternal> http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ - good 5-a-day stats
<nhandler> apachelogger: I was focused on becoming a MOTU. I like to set my priorities.
<apachelogger> coreymon77: the wiki is not using oxygen which is not too good :P
<apachelogger> nhandler: good point
<nhandler> vorian: That is true
<nixternal> also note that by being a MOTU, he is also an Ubuntu Member
<nixternal> so....
<nixternal> +1
<jjesse> +1 from me if it matters
<nixternal> honestly, I am getting tired of doing votes for this dude :p
<vorian> I totally support his application
<coreymon77> i dont have much say here, but i seem to like him
<nixternal> howdy seele!
<seele> hallo
<nixternal> we are on our way to a quorum it looks like
<Riddell> nhandler: you've only been doing stuff for two months you said?
<Riddell> but you also said since gutsy
<nhandler> Riddell: I have been packaging and patching bugs for a while. I just haven't been focusing on Kubuntu
 * nixternal thinks nhandler is a nixternal stalker
<claydoh> +1, its a no-brainer :)
<yuriy> nhandler: so you use kubuntu yourself but were focusing on more generic packages?
<Riddell> +1 from me too
<seele> can someone pastebin the beginning aprt of the interview?
<nhandler> yuriy: I use kubuntu on one of my machines. It didn't like my laptop, so I run ubuntu on it
<apachelogger> seele: http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/99167/
<nixternal> that was way faster than I could do :)
<yuriy> nhandler: why do you like kubuntu and choose to work on it? what sets it apart from other distributions (including ubuntu) for you?
<apachelogger> nhandler: we gotta fix the latter
<nhandler> yuriy: One of the things I like most about Kubuntu is the community. It is smaller and much closer. In Ubuntu, they have so many people that you can't really get to know everyone. As for kubuntu, I really like the way that kde4 is starting to shape up. I want to help make it better
<seele> looks good to me
<seele> +1 for nhandler
<yuriy> +1
<apachelogger> nhandler: congrats
<nixternal> wooo
<Riddell> welcome in nhandler
<nixternal> nhandler: Welcome you ninja!
<nixternal> congrats!
<apachelogger> welcome to the blue headed stepchild team :P
<nhandler> Thanks everyone
<vorian> yay nhandler!
<nixternal> apachelogger: you forgot my copyright/trademark on that quote!
<Riddell> anyone else here for membership?
<seele> why blue?  i thought it was red
<apachelogger> nixternal: jonny closed the wishlist item for copyright as won't fix :P
<nixternal> seele: kde is blooo :)
<jjesse> i thought everye thing was bloue
<nixternal> haha
 * seele points to her head :P
<vorian> bleaux
<nixternal> no more memberships
<apachelogger> we should script membership interviews ... would probably save us some time :P
<Riddell> first item is "Post-UDS discussion"
<nixternal> can wek skip the post UDS discussion, as I want to hear the QtCurve and Documentation bullets by apachelogger since I have to leave shortly
<Riddell> could do
<Riddell> apachelogger: want to start on those to keep nixternal happy?
<nixternal> thank you sir :)
<nixternal> hehe
<apachelogger> aye
<nixternal> apachelogger: scottk and I were looking at qtcurve the other day I think and it looked rather broken
<Riddell> what's up with qtcurve apachelogger?
<nixternal> I think it was qtcurve
<apachelogger> currently we have qtcurve (qt3 style) kde-style-qtcurve (kde3) kde4-style-qtcurve (qt4) kde4-style-qtcurve-kdeconfig (kde4)
<nixternal> is that the one with a reverse path applied in rules?
<nixternal> shouldn't there be a gtk package with qtcurve as well?
<apachelogger> the latter one has a rather ugly rules file
<apachelogger> nixternal: well yes, but that is not affected by the kde 4 transition ;-)
<nixternal> gotcha
<Riddell> apachelogger: but what's the problem?
<apachelogger> renaming that stuff to some sensible matter
<nixternal> if qtcurve is the package with the reverse patch in the rules, scottk and i couldn't get it to build in jaunty let alone intrepid
<apachelogger> I recommend that we drop kde-style-qtcurve ... rename qtcurve to qtcurve-qt4 ... rename kde-style-qtcurve to qtcurve ... and kde4-style-qtcurve-kdeconfig to kde-style-qtcurve
 * apachelogger is pretty sure he lost everyone by now :P
<Riddell> qtcurve is a dummy package
<nixternal> apachelogger: qt-style-qtcurve I think is how it goes...how does debian do it?
<apachelogger> Riddell: are you sure?
<Riddell> in intrepid that's what it says
<nixternal> yes, on s/kde4/kde/ on the style bits
<apachelogger> well, the whole qtcurve stuff is pretty confusing anyway
<nixternal> that it is
<Riddell> qtcurve is described as a dummy package but seems more like a meta package for the kde and gtk ones
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> Riddell: maybe we didn't have a qt3-only version
<Riddell> my thoughts would be to merge kde4-style-qtcurve and kde4-style-qtcurve-kdeconfig and call it kde-style-qtcurve
<Riddell> rename kde-style-qtcurve to kde3-style-qtcurve
<Riddell> and make qtcurve depend on kde 3, 4 and gtk
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> I am not too sure kde3-style-qtcurve will build at all
<apachelogger> IIRC qtcurve needs kwin to build
<Riddell> oh well drop it then
<apachelogger> ok
<Riddell> sorted?
<apachelogger> what to do about the qt4-only package?
<apachelogger> currently kde4-style-qtcurve IIRC
<Riddell> I'd be tempted to merge it as I say, can't believe that many people care about having a qt only one
 * apachelogger agrees
<Riddell> but then I'm a KDE guy so I could be biased :)
<nixternal> kde-style-qtcurve, kwin-style-qtcurve, qt4-style-qtcurve - i think it is supposed to be something like this per debian...as I have been working on a coupld of theme packages in debian
<apachelogger> I'll consult with debian about the qt4 style then
<apachelogger> [sorted]
<nixternal> apachelogger: pusling is the master at this stuff, so you might want to start there
<apachelogger> aye aye
<Riddell> what's up with our documentation install paths?
<nixternal> /usr/share/doc/*
<apachelogger> KDE 3 uses doc/KDE/
<apachelogger> KDE 4 uses doc/KDE4/
<apachelogger> (maybe lowercase)
<nixternal> lowercase
<Riddell> is that a problem?
<nixternal> /usr/share/doc/kde <- kde 3
<apachelogger> that makes the former unaccessible in KDE 4's khelpcenter, even though it lists them due to the desktop file
<nixternal> it shouldn't be a problem at all, as it is part of the fd.o specification for documentation
<nixternal> we make khc look anywhere we want though for documentation
<Riddell> there's a fd.o sepc for docs?
<nixternal> Riddell: just the /usr/share/doc/ part
<apachelogger> well
<nixternal> we are working on a specification with gnome and kde in fd.o
<nixternal> mallard was working well wtih it, but it is vaporware it seems
<apachelogger> I recommned we change the KDE 4 path to doc/kde
<Riddell> /usr/share/doc/ is quite a busy place, it wants to scan that whole directory?
<nixternal> I agree with apachelogger on /usr/share/doc/kde/
<nixternal> though
<apachelogger> Riddell: based on desktop files I would assume
<nixternal> hrmm
<apachelogger> nixternal: maybe talk to debian
<nixternal> Riddell: khc only scans /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/$cc/
<apachelogger> and then change to the path they want to use in the future
<apachelogger> technically KHC doesn't scan anything
<nixternal> no, just looks there
<apachelogger> it queries ksycoca for applications and reads their doc setting
<nixternal> you can make khc open any html and/or docbook file extension no matter where it is located
<apachelogger> that is why it doesn't matter what path we use as long as it is the same in KDE 3 and KDE 4
<apachelogger> so, course of action = talk to debian about path they want to use
<apachelogger> everyone ok with that?
<Riddell> merging them would cause clashes in /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common/
<nixternal> debian is still separating their paths I thought
<apachelogger> Riddell: we can drop the KDE 3 one
<Riddell> seems sensible enough to move to doc/kde then
<nixternal> I agree
<apachelogger> ok
<nixternal> khc codebase == ewwww
<Riddell> but indeed check with debian too, they may well know of problems that would cause
<nixternal> I need to start spending more time on it
<apachelogger> nixternal: suse code :P
<apachelogger> the apps data path is a related issue
<Riddell> tell us about it apachelogger
<apachelogger> debian also uses $PREFIX/share/kde4/apps/ instead of $PREFIX/share/apps/
<nixternal> suse code is only in the search handlers iirc
<nixternal> ie. htdig :(
<apachelogger> however, KDE regulates this in one of the cmake modules (in a very static way)
<apachelogger> so, if you compile a KDE 4 app manually it will use $P/share/apps, because it doesn't know that debian/kubuntu use share/kde4/apps
<apachelogger> which results in broken application data
<Riddell> mm, that does confuse people
<apachelogger> ^_^
<apachelogger> simply put: there is a wrong installation path used for non-cdbs compiled stuff
<apachelogger> we can resolve this by either patching the appropriate cmake modules, which works pretty well
<apachelogger> or we change to KDE default ($P/share/apps)
<apachelogger> since we most likely need to recompile every KDE 4 app because of the doc path changes anyway both options are good options IMO
<Riddell> I'd go with the former unless debian plan to change, that would be quite a deviation and there's probably still clashes with kde 3
<apachelogger> *nod*
<apachelogger> I'll talk with debian and go with the patching if the latter option is not possible
<Riddell> sorted?
<apachelogger> + I need to report this to KDE anyway, because debian needs to have the setting exported properly anyway
<apachelogger> Riddell: yes
<Riddell> it would be nice if the cmake module was set correctly at compile time
<Riddell> Post-UDS discussion
<Riddell> how was UDS for you seele, nixternal..?
<Riddell> we wrote some specs which are here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs
<seele> the most tiring one yet imo
<seele> too much activity for someone who works at home alone all the time :)
<jjesse> great except had to leave early :(
<Riddell> we'll need to paste you into our group photo jjesse
<jjesse> Riddell: i know bummed i missed it
<Riddell> plan is to change to package kit
<Riddell> various tweaks to installer, a good challenge for anyone who likes pykde
<apachelogger> is kpackagekit imported into jaunty yet?
<nixternal> Riddell: uds was super busy for me actually
<apachelogger> last I checked I didn't find it
<seele> yes, Tonio created some Intrepid packages and Thomas Pfeffer (colomar) is in the process of reviewing it
<nixternal> wasn't expecting to be that darn busy
<yuriy> how many kubuntu/kde people were at UDS?
<jjesse> colomar is doing the usability stuff for you right seele?
<nixternal> and the dancing santa was the highlight of the entire event :)
<seele> he will provide some feedback to what improvements could be made, and we can figure out which ones we can actually get done by feature freeze
<seele> jjesse: yes, he was my Season of Usability intern last year
 * apachelogger notes that getting any kind of package in ASAP would be good
<seele> and he came to Akademy (if anyone remembers)
<seele> packaging is Tonio's job, i just know he was working on it
<Riddell> yuriy: me, nixternal, rgreening, jjesse, tonio and at fosscamp blahzahl, chani and aurean the kpackagekit dude
<Riddell> seele too of course
<nixternal> seele was there? :p
<apachelogger> seele: I'll poke him about that
 * seele sighs
<nixternal> WEARING BLUE!!!!
<seele> no love
<nixternal> and trying to hide it
<seele> nixternal: it was cold that day :P
 * apachelogger hands seele a cookie 
<apachelogger> cookies > love
<nixternal> hahahaha
<jjesse> the blue crew shirt
<yuriy> < doctormo> I didn't see a whole load of kde people at UDS, maybe 3 or 4.  <-- in response to my comment on mark's blog about notifications
<apachelogger> nixternal: we need to discuss crew shirts @ next marketing metting :P
<Riddell> no surprises in KubuntuJauntyKDEPackaging but we do need to work out the mysql packaging for amarok and akonadi which will be tricky (especially amarok)
<yuriy> got the impression that we just didn't have enough of a presense there
<apachelogger> Riddell: I suppose last option would be to do it the intrepid way?
<jjesse> yuriy: we had more of a presence at this uds then the past
<nixternal> apachelogger: roger that!
<Lure> Riddell: is anybody working on digikam/kipi-plugins packaging already?
<Riddell> yuriy: desktop is less important than it used to be, lots of server and mobile people these days (I didn't see a whole load of gnome people)
<Riddell> apachelogger: mysql 5.1?
<Lure> Riddell: there are two dependancies (optional though) missing: libopencv liblensfun
<nixternal> besides the Kubuntu tracks, I was constantly in Community and MOTU/Development tracks...non stop
<apachelogger> Lure: devfil is working on digikam AFAIK
<nixternal> the entire week, I had 1 time slot where there wasn't a track specific to me
<apachelogger> Lure: and tonio updated kipi
<Riddell> Lure: volunteers welcome :)  I'd like to see those all move over to KDE 4 versions
<Lure> apachelogger: ok, is he in #kubuntu-devel?
<seele> nixternal: yes, i think i only had a few hours or breathing all week
<apachelogger> Lure: sometimes
<apachelogger> Lure: he's CET so he might be out partying by now ;-)
<Riddell> we need to check if there's going to be a version of k3b we can use
<Lure> apachelogger: if nobody will step in, I might try to use my rusty packaging skills and try to create packages ;-)
<apachelogger> Riddell: did anyone try trunk yet?
<Riddell> not I
<yuriy> comments on the dot claim that k3b for kde4 is usable
<nixternal> tonio said he saw something about k3b, but I have looked and looked and haven't found anything...the mailing lists are even asking where the kde k3b stuff is at
<apachelogger> Riddell: all people I talked to said "looks good, but didn't try burning"
<apachelogger> Riddell: so we probably should test the latter ;-)
<Riddell> we want to get kde 3 libs off the CD so that means getting rid of konversation as well for now
<nixternal> seems the lead dev is working a new job elsewhere and has little time to maintain k3b
<Riddell> possibly to be replaced with quassel if seele convinces them to make it usable
<apachelogger> nixternal: the lead dev is also lead dev of nepomuk
<apachelogger> Riddell: already working on it
<apachelogger> + quassel got KDE integration (notifciation and icons) already
<nixternal> apachelogger: correct, but didn't he get a new job or something? possibly working on nepomuk so than anything else?
<apachelogger> nixternal: *shrug* all I know is that he was working for mandriva at some point
<yuriy> mandriva is paying him to work on nepomuk I think
<nixternal> ahh, I just read something to that effect recently
<nixternal> yuriy: ya, I think that is exactly what I read
<Riddell> we'll need to look at webkitkde once qt 4.5 is out and evaluate if it's better than khtml
<Lure> Riddell: is qt 4.5 to land in jaunty?
<apachelogger> depends on the quality
<Riddell> Lure: they won't say but I hope it'll be out in time
<apachelogger> last I checked it rendered a lot of Qt 4.4 stuff unusable
<Lure> apachelogger: yes, I recalled thiago's post about kde4 being showstopper for qt 4.5 release
<apachelogger> well for KDE 4 most stuff is resolved, can't say the same about quassel for example
<Riddell> KubuntuJauntyGapAnalysis has various programming bits to be done, installing Restriced Install, system-config-printer really to be finished, tseliot's display setup tool...
<Riddell> txwikinger: about?
<txwikinger> yes
<Riddell> txwikinger: any plans to work on user setup tool this cycle?
<txwikinger> yes
<txwikinger> I will try to integrate what I did to the system-settings
<apachelogger> kuser isn't too bad for the time being
<apachelogger> now that it works kind of ;-)
<Riddell> txwikinger: seele did put her name down for specifying an improved UI for that, would you be able to take that on if she does?
<txwikinger> Riddell: yes, I think so
<Riddell> sime says pykde can be intergrated with system settings now, so various things can be made into modules for that
<txwikinger> cool
<Riddell> I should track down the sample code for that
<apachelogger> jonny already started with jockey
<apachelogger> as reported in his blog
<Riddell> oh, nice
<Arby> I've been trying to do the same with system-config-printer
<apachelogger> Riddell: update-notifier-kde should probably be renamed? kpackagekit comes with an update notification system builtin
<Arby> without much success it has to be said
<nixternal> alrighty, gotta head out...talk to you all later!
<apachelogger> cya nixternal
<Riddell> Arby: thanks for your e-mail on s-c-p-k, I'll get round to replying to it properly soon I hope
<txwikinger> bye nixternal
<nhandler> Bye nixternal
<Arby> Riddell: no rush
<Riddell> I should talk about the Desktop Experience team before we finish
<seele> heh
<Riddell> Canonical has put together this team of people to work on useful desktop bling stuff
<Riddell> their first project will be to do with notifications and was announced at UDS
<Riddell> the idea of the team is to make a useful contribution to the state of the free desktops
<Riddell> they have some Gnome people on it now and (because gnome is more in need of interesting things to happen to it :)
<apachelogger> ^_^
<Riddell> and will hire qt/kde person/people early this year to make sure we're not left out
<Riddell> so this means canonical will be a bit more hands on in saying what goes into Kubuntu, which up until now they havn't at all (I'm speaking with my kubuntu community hat)
<Riddell> so us in the kubuntu community need to make sure that what they work on is useful and works well to bring us and KDE stuff we love
<Riddell> from talks at UDS on the notification bits I think they know what needs doing to get it done with KDE well
<Riddell> and it may not happen this cycle for KDE (nobody hired yet and feature freeze is in 6 weeks)
<Riddell> but in future it should happen at the same time on ubuntu desktop and kubuntu since sabdfl is keen we are not left out
<Riddell> any comments or questions?
<apachelogger> sabdfl++ for that
<yuriy> so they talked with all of you guys at UDS about notifications?
<seele> you could say that
<Riddell> us and upstream too
<Arby> I saw a few blogs suggesting there was some resistance within KDE to parts of what was proposed on marks blog.
<apachelogger> yuriy: they also talked with aaron in #plasma
<Arby> if KDE flat out refuse to play what do we do?
<apachelogger> the notifications stuff is a bit messed up because there are kind-of 2 versions floating around
<apachelogger> the not-fd.o but almost standard one and the KDE one, which is based on the not-fd.o one but enhanced
<Riddell> Arby: upstream gnome had much the same reaction to some parts
<Arby> not unexpected
<Riddell> if KDE doesn't want it we'd need to keep patches, which it would be the responsibility of the DX team to maintain
<apachelogger> oh, that part I like
<Arby> that's what I was wondering
<Riddell> apachelogger: and hopefully this work can create a real cross desktop standard
<seele> part of the problem with the proposed design is that it doesn't account for KDE's heavy use of applications as services
<yuriy> apachelogger: I think that makes 3 versions now
<apachelogger> we need a lot more standards in general
<Arby> so basically this is going to happen whether upstream like it or not
<seele> they want to get rid of a lot of icons in the GNOME task panel, but their solution wont necessarily work in KDE-world
<yuriy> the great thing about standards ....
<Arby> that could make life ... colourful
<apachelogger> yuriy: well the idea is that the one created by the DX team gets also a consesus between gnome and KDE requirements
<apachelogger> that would then make it perfect for freedesktop.org
<Riddell> I think this is a very exciting change and I'm happy we're part of it, if we make sure all the right connections are made between us, the DX people and upstream it should be good for everyone
<apachelogger> +1
<seele> the fact that theyre trying to fix the fdo spec is a +1 in itself
<seele> regardless of the other design changes, notifications of either app families will work consistently and reliably on either platform
<seele> that's on part with being able to automatically set the OK/Cancel Cance/OK order automatically based on platform
<seele> people start to wonder why it wasnt done sooner
<seele> thats how much sense it makes :)
<Arby> where would be the right place to keep track of progress? do I need to subscribe to another mailing list?
 * apachelogger would guess so
<seele> dunno, Riddell might know.  i'm under the impression it is still internal though
<Riddell> good question, I'll need to ask about that
<Riddell> there's various docs on the wiki somewhere and I think they use the #ubuntu-desktop channel and ubuntu-desktop mailing lists but I could be wrong
 * apachelogger would prefer if they didn't
<seele> i havent seen anything about notifications on ubuntu-desktop
<seele> maybe there is an ubuntu-desktop-experience?
<Riddell> dunno, I'll ask
<apachelogger> -desktop is usually quite gnomish, so I for one wouldn't want to subscribe to it
<Riddell> any other business?
<beuno> Riddell, there isn't a channel for this yet
<Riddell> I'm on jury service on Monday so potentially I'll be away for an indefinate period, or maybe just a couple of hours if my name doesn't get picked out of the hat
<Riddell> I'll be around in evenings if I do get picked anyway
<txwikinger> cool Riddell
 * NCommander is back, sorry
<seele> oh.. UDS sponsored people: your receipts are due Jan 9 I believe
<NCommander> ugh, completely forgot about that
 * NCommander still has them
<Riddell> thanks for coming all, 2009 is going to rock!
 * apachelogger hands out cookies
<Arby> yum
 * txwikinger hands out Tim Horton's Hot Chocolate
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jan 20:00: EMEA Membership | 06 Jan 16:00: Server Team | 06 Jan 17:00: Kernel Team | 06 Jan 21:00: Community Council | 07 Jan 03:00: America's Council | 07 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-01-04
<chris062689> Um... isn't the Kubuntu meeting supposed to be here at 19:00?
<nizarus> chris062689, it was here at 19:00 UTC
<chris062689> ah
<chris062689> Does anyone happen to have a log?
<nizarus> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/01/03/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<stgraber> @schedule Montreal
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 05 Jan 15:00: EMEA Membership | 06 Jan 11:00: Server Team | 06 Jan 12:00: Kernel Team | 06 Jan 16:00: Community Council | 06 Jan 22:00: America's Council | 07 Jan 11:00: Foundation Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-01-04
<HFSPLUS> UBUNTU AND LINUX ARE CANCER IN A SENSE IF YOU USE IT YOUR BODY WILL GET SEPSIS AND YOU WILL GET CANCER EVERYWHERE IN YOUR BODY
<HFSPLUS> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<robbiew> kees: meeting today?
<mdeslaur> kees: meeting!
<jdstrand> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<kees> \o
<kees> sorry, lost in email backlog
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> kees: as all of us
<kees> so, uhm, I drank a fair bit and then tried to push compiler hardening bits in Debian.  for this week, I'll take krb5 and continue to follow some of the community sponsorship requests.
<robbiew> heh
<mdeslaur> I'll take php5 and gimp, and will start the screenlocking debugging wiki page this week
<kees> I'm still digging through backlog
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage also
<kees> mdeslaur: sorry about the state of bugs.  I managed to keep on top of CVE triage, though.  :P
<mdeslaur> kees: np!
<jdstrand> I plan to do some merges as well as some work on essential bps. I'll pick up an update if needed
<jdstrand> s/if/as/
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> I suppose I could be slightly more specific
<jdstrand> I hope to finish security-lucid-sponsorship-review
<jdstrand> then look at apparmor stuff and the 0.7.5 libvirt merge
<kees> jdstrand: for sponsorship processes, I have some questions now that I've followed it a few times.
<jdstrand> then decide how to tackle the libvirt items
<jdstrand> kees: ok
<kees> if that's it on status, then I'll dive into my sponsorship questions?
<jdstrand> kees: please do
<kees> ok, so, following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/SponsorsQueue
<kees> I had two hats: reviewer ("sponsor"?) and Uploader.
<kees> first question is: at what point should the ubuntu-security-sponsors team be unsubscribed from a bug?
<kees> (the only case seems to be when the patch needs work)
<kees> should it be unsubbed when it's been uploaded?
<jdstrand> kees: that is correct
<jdstrand> though we will mark syncs as Invalid
<jdstrand> and also Fix Released
<kees> hrm
<jdstrand> both of those drop the bug off the sponsors radar
<jdstrand> kees: I started to do the whole separated process that I am sure you are thinking of
<kees> ok, so Invalid and Fix Released, but ubuntu-security-sponsors stays sub'd.
<jdstrand> kees: that is how it currently is, but ubuntu-security-sponsors could be unsub'd in those cases, but I don't see a real need for that
<kees> ah! wait, I think I see the source of my confusion.
<kees> the All open link will show bugs that are invalid when there are other open statuses for a bug.
<kees> so, in the case of multiple releases, it gets confusing.
<jdstrand> I didn't opt for the separated process because that is geared for larger teams-- in practice, we and motu-swat will be doing the reviewing-- so I kept it simple for now
<nxvl> kees: as in New for Lucid and Invalid for Jaunty?
<jdstrand> kees: that may be a bug in LP
<kees> nxvl: right, or like bug 431080, where one part is In Progress (which doesn't need ubuntu-security-sponsors subbed) and others are fix released and invalid.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431080 in drupal5 "Fix critical security issues in drupal packages" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431080
<jdstrand> kees: I am writing a tool today, similar to pull-in-progress.py that will make it a bit easier to see
<kees> hrm, why does 481631 still show up?
<jdstrand> what needs work and the status of things
<jdstrand> kees: probably because of the upstream bug?
<kees> jdstrand: oh, no, the query is bad.  it includes Invalid and Won't Fix.
<kees> I will adjust the wiki page.
<jdstrand> ok, thanks
<kees> alright.  that was basically it.  multiple confusions due to the LP bug list.  ;)
<kees> oh yikes, moin just HTTP 500'd
<jdstrand> kees: sorry about that
<jdstrand> (not the 500-- I didn't have anything to do with that! ;)
<kees> jdstrand: oh, I don't think that's your fault at all.  new processes are fun to clarify.  :)
<kees> ok, so now following the "All open" link is much more sensible.
<jdstrand> yeah-- hence the 'Beta Available' implementation :)
<kees> do you think "In progress" should be removed from the list too, since that means the patch writer needs to work on it more?
<jdstrand> kees: I don't, cause 'All' is supposed to convey all open bugs
<kees> ok, sounds good.
<jdstrand> plus, it also could mean that the bug has been uploaded to the ubuntu-security-proposed ppa, and needs to be pocket copied to -proposed
<jdstrand> so I wouldn't want to hide it
<jdstrand> (section '4.2 Uploads')
<kees> ah! yes, just noticed that.
<kees> ok, so, with bug 446838, what's the next step?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446838 in squirrelmail "Multiple cross-site request forgery (CSRF) vulnerabilities in SquirrelMail 1.4.19 and earlier" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446838
<kees> we got a NACK on the hardy patch
<kees> s/patch/package/
 * jdstrand looks
<jdstrand> kees: ok, so 'klumpen' said the patch doesn't work. that is not enough detail...
<jdstrand> kees: ultimately though, this is in -proposed and for ubuntu-sru to handle using their processes
<kees> that was my thought too.
<jdstrand> kees: see '5. Verification'
<kees> (I can do a verification for karmic, but not hardy)
<jdstrand> kees: basically, once it goes from ubuntu-security-proposed to -proposed, ubuntu-sru takes it from there
<kees> ok
<jdstrand> that may sound somewhat contentious, but this won't happen for packages in main, and ScottK said that this is the process to use for universe
<kees> it continues to show up on the "open" list, but I guess that's ok.
<kees> regardless, I'm happy with the process.
<jdstrand> kees: we could theoretically unsub ubuntu-security-sponsors at the point that ubuntu-sru has it, but I thought that since the processes are still being defined and people getting used to them, we should keep our eyes on the bug
<jdstrand> s/defined/fine-tuned/
<kees> yeah, and I think dholbach wants "finished" sponsorships to retain the sponsorship team for his reports.
<ScottK> Sometimes pitti will push updates out if a particular release isn't tested if the risk seems low.
<kees> ScottK: yeah, but do things get deleted from -proposed if someone NAKs?
<ScottK> Generally the idea is they get superceded by a fixed update.
<kees> okay
<ScottK> They should, but I don't know that they always do.
<kees> next up: http://piware.de/workitems/security/lucid/report.html
<kees> that graph shouldn't include weekends and holidays.  ;)
<jdstrand> I am pretty sure that if something doesn't supercede it, it will get deleted
<jdstrand> it is a manual process of course
<jdstrand> and I don't know how often that happens, but istr seeing it
<jdstrand> kees: heh
<kees> so, to keep us in line with the burndown, we need to either finish stuff or postpone stuff.
<jdstrand> kees: well yes, but I thought we discussed that we weren't going to overly fret over the burndown-- has that changed?
<kees> I already postponed all the "low", so I'm going to start fishing for "medium" stuff.
<kees> jdstrand: I'm not going to fret at all -- the fact that we're postponing stuff directly reflects that we don't have time for some things.
<jdstrand> (I remember the 'low' discussion)
<kees> I think it's appropriate to choose that which gets tossed out.
<jdstrand> ok
<kees> and if we work from the lowest priority up, that reflects our committment to essential workitems.
<jdstrand> keep in mind, I am doing dev work this week-- I hope to make some progress on my items :)
<kees> to that end, I'd like us to run down the workitems assigned to people outside our team first, and then start picking stuff from our medium list to postpone.
<kees> jdstrand: yup, that's great.  :)
<kees> I'd like us to be in line by friday's review.
<jdstrand> kees: well, with coffeedude, I'm not sure how much we can encourage it gets done. likewise is on their own timeframe. ttx may know more about it
<kees> jdstrand: should we ping coffeedude.jerry?
<kees> *one mind*
<jdstrand> heh
<kees> ok, cool.
<jdstrand> next is jjohansen and 'clean up on pam_apparmor'
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> (also a 'medium')
<kees> I already postponed kirkland's item.  :)
<jjohansen> ah, yeah I have been meaning to get to that but not for alpha2
<jjohansen> so yeah postpone please
<kees> done
<kees> ok, any questions for the security team or other items?
<jdstrand> it seems that the parts of sbeattie's items are getting done... ie, the wiki is started
<jdstrand> oh, they are postponed anyway. nm
<kees> jdstrand: there's nothing wrong with flipping a postponed item to "done" too.  it's just a matter of tracking the line for a given moment in time.
<jjohansen> yeah doesn't it then show up as green instead of yellow
 * kees nods
<kees> alrighty, meeting over.  thanks everyone!
<robbiew> thanks kees!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-01-05
 * asac waves
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> morning all
<davidm> G'day
<dyfet> need coffee
<GrueMaster> Zzzz
<JamieBennett> Happy New Year !
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20100105
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20100105
 * ogra waves (with a head that doesnt feel like it fits through the door)
<NCommander> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<ogra> i guess we can ignore the ARs this week :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] cooloney to ask ericm about 2.6.32 patches for marvell dove
<MootBot> New Topic:  cooloney to ask ericm about 2.6.32 patches for marvell dove
<cooloney_> i think ericm_ just got the .32 patches from marvell
<ogra> NCommander, btw. you should include one of the kernel guys in the meeting ping in the future
<NCommander> ogra, ah, will do
<asac> both please
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to email Marvell about the date of the next expected kernel drop
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to email Marvell about the date of the next expected kernel drop
<NCommander> c/o on this one, although if ericm_ got the 32 patches already, then not needed.
<NCommander> [topic] asac, ogra, persia to make sure .32 backporting for imx51 kernels is documented somewhere (c/o)
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac, ogra, persia to make sure .32 backporting for imx51 kernels is documented somewhere (c/o)
<persia> We failed on this one again.
<asac> what was that about? (probably needs to be carried forward)
 * ogra didnt do anything here 
<ogra> asac, that was about getting the non arch specific features ported to the .31 kernel
<asac> is that about user space?
<persia> asac: ogra: let's get together about 9:00 UTC tomorrow and do this.
<ogra> so we have all distro features available
<ogra> asac, nope
<asac> hmm. shouldnt we get cooloney_ on board too then?
<ogra> about aufs, apparmor and friends
<persia> We were supposed to give cooloney_ a report :)
<ogra> right
 * ericm_ waves to all
<persia> So yeah, tomorrow work for you two?
<NCommander> hey ericm_, did we get a 32 drop from Marvell?
<ogra> persia, 1h later ?
<persia> OK.
<ogra> great
<ericm_> NCommander, yes - I'm working on the rebase
<asac> ok
<asac> we can try
<ericm_> hopefully to get a working kernel in these days
<ogra> would be good to have both new kernels there for A2
<NCommander> ericm_, where are the base Marvell branches? I think we may have another thumb mode kernel bug (I sent you an email about it)
<ogra> since they will need heavy testing
<ericm_> NCommander, yes I've got that email - the branch is on kernel.ubuntu.com
<ericm_> let me find the exact URL
<asac> ogra: persia: sent an invite for tomorrow (in case you care)
<ogra> thanks
<ericm_> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=marvell/dove-kernel/.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/marvell-dove-2.6.32.2
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=marvell/dove-kernel/.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/marvell-dove-2.6.32.2
<asac> yes. from whati understood cooloney_ will try to get the fsl kernel done this week
<cooloney_> asac: yeah,
<cooloney_> i am working on this
<NCommander> ericm_, awesome. I'll talk to you more about the issues outside this meeting.
<ericm_> asac, hopefully me too
<ericm_> NCommander, no problem
<NCommander> [topic] Current Items for Lucid Alpha 2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Current Items for Lucid Alpha 2
<NCommander> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<asac> we have a big backlog ...
<NCommander> asac, Christmas holidays unfortunately do that :-/
<asac> yeah
<asac> so part of the backlog is definitly me
<ogra> me too
<NCommander> Any objection if we just run through each Alpha 2 spec individually?
<asac> thats the nature of the items i have ... most are items that are scheduled to happen at alpha-2
<asac> like the thumb spec etc.
<asac> but ... would be great if everyone could check his spec and see if there are work items that either are DONE or can be POSTPONED
<ogra> but we have until monday ...
<ogra> so a good bunch should be affordable
<NCommander> We should have working alternates for Alpha2, although the dove alternate currently seems to be semi-foobar during kernel installation
<ogra> is the test requirement fulfilled already `
<NCommander> There was an image on antimony that was preventing alternate images for ports spinning. This has been resolved
<NCommander> ogra, which test requirements? ISO testing?
<ogra> iirc that is supposed to have clearified the community testing first
<ogra> at least thats what i was told at UDS
<ogra> i.e. we will only do it if we have enough community testing since we dont have the resources in the team
<asac> i would suggest to do it... and see how well the testing goes
 * ogra definately doesnt have additional 6h per image to invest 
<asac> of coures not officially support it until we have the resources
<ogra> we dont have them *now*
<ogra> and the desktop images will suffer through pulling time off them
<ogra> s/them/their testing/
<ogra> which we definately have to do
<asac> but from the technical side, what is missing?
<ogra> alternate testing takes at least 3x as much time
<asac> NCommander: ?
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status
<ogra> ??
<asac> NCommander: whats going on?
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> bugger
 * NCommander goes to drink more coffee
<NCommander> asac, on the technical side, not too much. the d-cd script for dove have been fixed, so now our alternates boot
<persia> NCommander already talked about the alternate status.
<asac> ok
<ogra> NCommander, what about the ppp package issues ?
<asac> we fixed that a month ago ;)
<asac> or two?
<persia> Live images have been mostly built, although today's were hit with hplib version skew.
<NCommander> ogra, the fix was deploy to antimony just before Christmas break
<ogra> asac, and the new packages are backported and installed on the builder ?
<asac> yes
<ogra> NCommander, ah, thanks
<StevenK> persia: Was that just a delay with NEW or something else?
<asac> ok ... so to finish this alternate image topic.
<ogra> i know when you fixed it ... just didnt know when it went into hardy
<persia> I thought it was just a build-time delay between arch:all and arch:any
<NCommander> ogra, its in hardy-cat, I don't believe we did an SRU for it
<asac> can we agree that we have all the bits in place ... and that we can do manual image runs to ensure that they work?
<NCommander> asac, +1
<asac> but we dont enable them until we have a) more builders ... and b) a community testing plan?
<ogra> asac, we can ... and i'd be happy to test them, juct not during alpha testing in general
<NCommander> asac, the images are built on antimony and not on an armel box, so an alternate rebuild is trivial
<ogra> right, building isnt an issue
<asac> ok so a) can be scratchd
<NCommander> asac, I'd say we provide them as a best effort, but I'd lthem to at least have a semi-good chance of working
<asac> so cant we keep them being produced, but just not supported?
<ogra> they build since jaunty :)
<ogra> more or less functional though
<NCommander> ogra, imx51 ones maybe, dove just got their first working ones
<ogra> yeah, imx51 indeed
<persia> StevenK: You're right: it was NEW.
<StevenK> persia: Right, skew due to NEW I can deal with.
<NCommander> so
<NCommander> go onto ARM image status?
<persia> I thought we were talking about ARM image status.
<asac> wait a bit
 * ogra didnt do any test install, but the build logs for imx51 look perfect 
<asac> wanted to check a few others.
<asac> JamieBennett: do you have a way forward for figuring out where the time is lost in the debconf-communicate thing?
<persia> ogra: livefs builds failed today (libmpmud0 NEW)
<asac> (casper speedup)
<JamieBennett> asac: Yes, 3 actually
<JamieBennett> But one is the obvious choice
<ogra> persia, didnt look today yet, just returned from the dentist and will lay down after the meeting again
<asac> ok cool. thats on track then
<ogra> persia, but nothing that wouldnt be solved in general ... its not arch specific
<asac> plars: efficient instlal testing ... when will we get the all-pairs generated?
<persia> ogra: Right.  Same happened for powerpc.  Anyway, I'll be glad to give this back to you :)
<ogra> :)
<plars> the test pairs are generated and documented in the wiki, I just need to write the detail for them on the qa testplan wiki
<plars> then we can create the virtual milestones and link them
<asac> cool
<asac> so when can we start doing all-pairs testing?
<plars> asac: good target would be somewhere after A2 at the soonest
<plars> the milestones should exist between milestone images
<plars> but A2 is even pretty early to focus *too* hard on it
<asac> ok great.
<plars> doesn't hurt though
<asac> so we assume that paramaters == questions asked during instlal?
<asac> thought it could also be things like: "what install media type" ... "what network connection" etc.
<asac> though testing that might be tricky
<plars> essentially, or could be boot screen options also (once supported), network connection during install, partitioning selection, etc
<plars> asac: for purposes of this type of testing, the network connected or disconnected during install is really what we want to focus on
<asac> ok. lets start with what you have now. we can extend later
<plars> since problems have been exhibited there before
<asac> plars: did you manually generate the all-pairs or do you use a script?
<plars> asac: right, we can certainly extend it all if needs be
<asac> if you have a script that would be great to post on wiki so we can rerun it if we have more paramaters we want to pair
<plars> the pairs were generated programatically, but had to be translated manually (easy) into which items that corresponded with
<asac> could you post the tool you used to generate it there?
<asac> ogra: uboot spec is on track for alpha-2 until we know its not on track?
<asac> :-P
<plars> I think it's linked from the bp wiki page, but I'll check to make sure
<ogra> asac, yeah ... will be done latest on the weekend
<ogra> will get 100% of my focus as soon as i feel better
<asac> ok.
 * asac sends a grain of good feeling to ogra
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> anything else we want to bring up for Alpha 2?
<ogra> i already am better ... just that anaesthesia going away leaves me with massive pain
<JamieBennett> asac: we have issues with 2D launcher MIR's. We need to convince reviews that upstream will sort out what they call 'minor issues' or provide patches ourself to speed up the process (also two MIR's are unassigned)
<ogra> (and i'm not allowed to put painkillers on top)
<asac> JamieBennett: ok. thanks for letting me know. lets talk about that after meeting
<JamieBennett> ok
<asac> ok the other specs have a backlog as previously pointed out:
<asac> thumb -> work items are review items to happen at alpha-2 stage
<asac> lightweight browser -> took a while to get chromium working, but now we have progress again
<ogra> when will we see it in the archive ?
<asac> suspend-resume -> reduced set of work items (most was moved to alpha-3) should be doable for alpha-2
<mok0> chromium is GREAT
<StevenK> I'd like to see a debian/copyright I'm happy with for Chromium, but that is A LOT of work
<dmart> asac, did we have a working ff build now?
<asac> ogra: i am working on license documentation ... tough task, but progress. i hope we get that to a stage that StevenK is happy to accept it
<ogra> bribe him
<asac> dmart: the patch will get uploaded with .7
<persia> Needs to be a big bribe.  That's almost megabytes of licenses.
<asac> which is happening ... erm ... now ;)
 * ogra heard rubber boats go well in east australia atm 
<ogra> oh, that was mean, sorry
<asac> persia: i have a tool to generate dep5 format copyrigh tnow
<StevenK> ogra: Hm?
<persia> asac: Yeah, but still :)
<asac> with whitelisting etc. stuff will get down to a reasoanble amount of unknown stuff
<asac> persia: yes. but thats StevenK's main job then ;)
<asac> now that didrocks has started :-P
<asac> ok
<asac> we can move on
<asac> oh ... lib-test ... probably will be late
<asac> not too scary as long as it happens soon after alpha-2
<persia> Maybe it's worth re-milestoning those then.
<asac> persia: its tricky the work item tracker needs a different approach
<persia> Hrm.
<asac> so for split up blueprints we target the next delivery milestone
<asac> and then move ahead
<persia> So, do I need to repeat the stuff about the ARM image status, or is that done?
<asac> otherwise the items we want to see done by alpha-2 wont show up here.
<asac> persia: i think that sank ... maybe repeat ;)
<asac> 14:16 < NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status
<persia> OK.
<persia> So, ports alternates just got fixed a few hours back (some issue with confusion in a cron job)
 * ogra just repeats imx51 looks good apart from general non armel related breakage
<persia> As a result, we should start seeing alternate images again soon.
<NCommander> persia, d-cd didn't take well to lpia being rm'ed
<persia> NCommander: Yeah, but I wasn't getting into details :)
<ogra> (desktop that is)
<persia> Live images have been OK for a while, but the livefs builds failed today due to NEW delay (sorted for tomorrow).
<ogra> NCommander, how about dove desktop ?
<NCommander> ogra, they're working aside from the usual livefs breakages
<ogra> whats "usual" ?
<NCommander> ogra, i.e., somethng that would also break imx51
<NCommander> ogra, I guess I should say, no dove specific breakage known at this time
<ogra> and amd64 ?
<ogra> or x86
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> as long as its not armel related i dont care :P
<NCommander> ogra, I'm testing images daily at this point as a lead into alpha2. Rather not miss another milestone with dove
<ogra> you know that they can become shaky this week ... dont count to much on installability
<ogra> everyone tries to get features for A2 ready
<ogra> the archive will be out of sync often
 * StevenK is planning to break armel images this week and get them building UNE
<NCommander> ogra, I rather catch failure early than during A2 ISO testing.
<NCommander> StevenK, need a hand?
<NCommander> :-)
<persia> Oh, and the last thing I had to say about images is that I'm glad people are returning from holiday so that others are watching them :)
<ogra> right, just make sure to tell them apart from feature development
<asac> StevenK: how about keeping keeping the desktop images until we have a working une image? at least we have a image at alpha-2 then ;)
<ogra> multi package features are likely to trash stuff, especially this week with the last minute uploads
<NCommander> ogra, we still do have some ubiquity weirdness with manual partitioning on dove. That might slide to Alpha 3, I'm grinding my wheels on that one.
<StevenK> asac: I'm happy enough to do that, and davidm agrees with you.
<persia> asac: As long as we have all the packages built correctly, why not change the seeds?
<asac> StevenK: ok cool. thx!
<ogra> NCommander, thats just a bug we can release note ...
<asac> persia: risk minmization
<asac> you never know
<ogra> its an alpha after all, not a final :)
<asac> you can just enable a new seed
<asac> and if that work we disable the old seed ;)
<NCommander> StevenK, is the actual desktop image on dove going to be UNE-2D, or are we going to simply build desktop and ubuntu-netbook-edition-2d ARM
<NCommander> or asac beat me to that question
<persia> new seed?  I thought the plan was just arch-specific stuff to existing seeds.
<StevenK> NCommander: At first, both, and then the former only
<asac> NCommander: UNE-2D is our main target
<asac> persia: yes. new seed for armel
<asac> not overal
<NCommander> asac, StevenK, TBH, I rather just disable the desktop task on the image build system, and leave alternates for people who want them
<asac> NCommander: that doesnt conflict with what we say
<StevenK> asac: It wasn't going to be a new seed?
<asac> StevenK: your decision ;)
 * ogra thoughgt it was an on-top seed
<NCommander> If we can build both concurrently, I say thats the way to do it, then just focus on UNE
<asac> i just think having desktop images produced until we have the new images would be great
<StevenK> It will not be a new seed. There.
<asac> and reduces risk and burn out syndrom potential in case something goes bad
<StevenK> platform -> netbook is hard enough; I don't want to deal with platform -> netbook -> armel-stuff
<persia> \o/ reduced number of seeds
<NCommander> asac, I rather just keep the desktop image around like we build kubuntu and xubuntu armel
<ogra> NCommander, ask IS if you may :P
<NCommander> Maybe turn off the live images to save some time on the livefs builder
<StevenK> NCommander: cdimage space is still a going concern
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> a huge concern
<StevenK> (Since it always is)
 * StevenK gives the ogra the secret cdimage high five
 * ogra grins :)
<NCommander> one which will never go away due to images go up, not down. I realize its a concern, but we're simply going to have the same issue when we get a new SoC, or a new image type
<ogra> NCommander, you will always have the ubuntu-desktop task you can install
<asac> so is there anything to discuss? from what i understand we make a seemless transition to the new seed, by keeping desktop images enabled until we have a first working UNE image for armel with 2D launcher, right?
<ogra> even more if we get a new SoC
<ogra> yeah
<asac> ok
<asac> then we all know where we are heading ;)
<NCommander> Are we going to transition people from desktop to UNE on the upgrade usecase?
 * ogra doesnt think so
<asac> NCommander: unlikely
<NCommander> Do we actually care about the karmic->lucid upgrade for dove and imx51?
<persia> It wouldn't be ideal to force a transitoin.
<ogra> NCommander, we should test them
<asac> desktop packages are still there and in main .... so users just ride the general support wave
<persia> Supporting upgrades is nice, if there is commonly supported hardware.
<NCommander> persia, hence the question.
<plars> would be good to have a metapackage to provide them the packages to update to the all the new UNE stuff, but forcing it on them would probably get some complaining
<NCommander> Anyway, anyone have anything else to bring up on ARM Image Status?
<ogra> plars, we have to have a task anyway
<asac> yep
<asac> ok so i think we can move on
<asac> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<mok0> Chromium was mentioned before. I suggest it should be adopted in main
<asac> FTBFS's
<asac> mok0: thats the plan
<NCommander> asac, I saw you assigned a bunch :-)
<asac> depends on various factors ;)
<mok0> asac: ah. Great!
<asac> yep ... so i went through all main FTBFS and assigned them to either ncommander or dyfet
<asac> and both subscribed to both
<asac> dont hesitate to tell me if there are FTBFS you get stuck with
<asac> ;)
<asac> so we can unblock them somehow
<ogra> asac, thanks a lot for apex btw
<asac> for univeres i am through half of the list
<asac> with assignments
<NCommander> asac, thanks for the ocaml upload. Upstream is looking at the bug now as well
<asac> will do the rest
<asac> next ...
<ogra> well, we used to handle universe as a nice to have
<asac> i think its important to get all armel-only build failures fixed. of course main has higher prio
<asac> but universe is also important
<asac> because we are the only ones with hardware to actually work on those
<ogra> do you plan to change that  since you are actively assigning stuff ?
<NCommander> Do we have a general goal to when to have main armel-only FTBFS free?
<ogra> thats what we used to have
<ogra> seems asac wants to widen that goal
<asac> ogra: i assign them because main is almost fixed
<persia> I think universe is all the more important considering the spec to remove binaries for anything that FTBFS.
<asac> its still a lower prio, but its more than a nice to have
<persia> So for *this* release, it's more important than usual to demonstrate that something *can* build.
<asac> at least the armel-only build failures
<NCommander> sorry
<NCommander> I meant an Alpha 2 main-free armel-only FBFS
<ogra> but we give MOTU tools in their hands to work on them
<asac> right. its also more important in the light of the new toolchain
<ScottK> Please fix libtool then as it's causing other FTBFS.
<asac> NCommander: would be great.
<ogra> and i'd like to see MOTU getting more knowledge here
<asac> yes. libtool has highest prio
<asac> i have put that on release team radar too
<asac> and assigned NCommander to it ;)
<ogra> if you assign them to us MOTU wont care at all
<NCommander> asac, I was going to ask for it actually :-)
<asac> ogra: i dont see that realistic for now
<asac> they dont have hardware
<ogra> thats why i wrote all these tools
<ScottK> ogra: Without access to hardware, there isn't much we can do.
<NCommander> dyfet, can you make my shell reappear, or should I work off jocote?
<ogra> and blogged about it ... and set up wiki pages
<ogra> ScottK, you can build in chroots to fix FTBFS
<asac> ogra: well. so most i assigned now are _old_ build failures
<asac> seems noone picked them up
<asac> but yes, we should make a new blog post etc.
<ogra> http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/juggling-your-arms-in-karmic-and-no-more-excuses/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/juggling-your-arms-in-karmic-and-no-more-excuses/
<dyfet> ncommander: shell?  you mean on my arm?
<NCommander> dyfet, yeah
 * ogra wonders if anyone reads his posts on planet :P
<NCommander> So who wants to blog to planet?
 * NCommander has a layer of dust on his blog :-/
<NCommander> two minute warning
<asac> so who has a blog at all? ;)
<asac> and who is on planet?
<NCommander> I'm on planet
<asac> both combined probably reduces the set of candidates ;)
<NCommander> (both Ubuntu & Debian)
<asac> i am on planet too
 * ogra too
<asac> ok so we have three
<ogra> and i regulary blog about my armel tools and achievements
<StevenK> Or heating houses
<asac> lets discuss communication offline.
<ogra> heh, yeah :)
<NCommander> [action] ogra, asac, NCommander to blog on planet about ARM work
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra, asac, NCommander to blog on planet about ARM work
<ogra> right, time is up
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> anything else quickly?
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:59.
<NCommander> argh
 * NCommander was a minute early
<asac> NCommander: dyfet: try to work together on the FTBFS ;)
<ogra> [action] ^^^ :)
<asac> NCommander: also ... do you want me to monitor that list for you and do assignments in future or will both of you coordinate that together?
<asac> also consider me part of that FTBFS effort ;)
<asac> thanks all!
<asac> dmart: http://pastebin.com/f10c0fe94
<asac> thats hte list of packages not yet touched
<asac> i didnt exclude "arch all" packages yet
<persia> asac: Is that different from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/unchanged/unchanged_since_karmic ?
<asac> so probably its a bit less packages not yet touched
<asac> not sure :)
<asac> persia: my list is just main
<persia> OK.
<asac> but good to know
<kees> \o
<pitti> o/
<pitti> mdz, cjwatson?
<mdz> pitti: hi
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> [link] https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/WritingObjectives
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/WritingObjectives
<cjwatson> hello
<mdz> er
<mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<mdz> one day the X clipboard will work as we expect...
<mdz> I see cjwatson, pitti, kees
<pitti> both  of them? :-)
<mdz> sabdfl is on holiday
<mdz> I don't know about Keybuk
<pitti> he was online yesterday
<mdz> pitti: I thought there was only one clipboard, plus the selection buffer
<pitti> ScottK: are you here? (your agenda item is pretty much the only one that we have)
<ScottK> I'm heree
<ScottK> here even
<pitti> ScottK: happy new year!
<mdz> [topic] Review action items from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review action items from previous meeting
<ScottK> Happy New Year.
<mdz> mdz to drive election for DMB, based on existing members of TB and MC
<mdz> voting is in progress now
 * persia very much appreciated the second call for votes: something rarely seen in these polls.
<mdz> 77 votes cast out of 146 eligible voters
<mdz> the vote will end in 13 days, one week from Monday
<mdz> persia: it occurred to me in doing this that there is not a lot of guidance available to our governance teams as to how to conduct elections
<mdz> different teams have done it in different ways
<mdz> perhaps something for the CC to consider
<mdz> next action:
<mdz> persia to ask CC to make DMB an admin of ~universe-contributors, as part of the DMB/MC merge
<mdz> I saw the request happen
<mdz> persia: have you received any response?
<persia> I haven't seen any follow-up.  I'm planning to ask at the CC meeting on the 20th if I haven't seen anything by then (I'm not confident I'll be awake for today's meeting).
<persia> Err, 19th.
<mdz> persia: perhaps someone who will be awake could proxy for you at today's meeting? that would be better than waiting 2 weeks
<ScottK> mdz: As far as how to do elections, I think the move to use CIVS is a huge step forward for the project.
<persia> mdz: I'll seek someone for that.
<mdz> persia: when is it?
<persia> 21 UTC
<mdz> ScottK: yes, but it's only one part of the process. I had to make it up as I went along in terms of soliciting and confirming nominations, establishing who was eligible, how long the vote should be, and so on
<mdz> persia: so somebody in the US would be best. kees?
<persia> mdz: I think it needs to be someone on MC: likely nixternal or nhandler
<ScottK> mdz: Certainly.  I think it makes sense to have it documented and some standardization.
<mdz> persia: ok, I'll leave it with you then
<mdz> [topic] MOTU direction (ScottK, cjwatson)
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU direction (ScottK, cjwatson)
<ScottK> I didn't put this on the agenda for today ...
<ScottK> cjwatson: ?
<persia> It was carry-over from the last meeting.
<pitti> I carried it over from the last meeting, since we didn't get to it
<ScottK> Ah.
<pitti> I just didn't want to drop it
<cjwatson> as far as I'm concerned this is a "guilt item"
<mdz> we're looking for a progress check
<cjwatson> unless ScottK has done more than I have ...
<mdz> any progress since 22 december?
<cjwatson> I have been on holiday since 22 Dec, mostly
<mdz> what needs to happen next? do you two need any help?
<ScottK> Well we do have this action and persia has helpfully drafted some material, but cjwatson and I have not had a chance to discuss it.
<ScottK> So unless he's done something I'm not aware of, I think it needs to be pushed.
<cjwatson> ScottK: do you have the URL for persia's draft?
<persia> There isn't a URL.
<ScottK> cjwatson: He emailed it to you and me.
<cjwatson> oh, ok, I'll dig that out
<mdz> he mentioned that he updated:
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council
<mdz> I don't know if that's the same thing ScottK is talking about
<ScottK> No.
<persia> No, that was what I did as a result of the questions about DMB/MC from last meeting.
<cjwatson> I have the gobby dump from UDS which AIUI needs to be written up properly and presented to the TB.
<ScottK> Yes, and persia to a stab at writing it up for us.
<ScottK> Message-ID: <9bd2f8971001031949u15ba5fc4k20cb9abe0bacff8@mail.gmail.com>
<cjwatson> I'm going to go ahead and dump that into the wiki, and work from there
<cjwatson> I don't think there's anything else for this meeting, we just need to not forget it
<ScottK> Agreed.
<cjwatson> I'll try to have a bit more progress for next time
<mdz> ok
<mdz> actions?
<cjwatson> just carry over
<mdz> cjwatson to write up gobby notes from UDS?
<cjwatson> [action] ScottK+cjwatson to pull joint fingers out and write up proposal
<ScottK> I think it's just work we know we have to do.
<mdz> [action] ScottK+cjwatson to pull joint fingers out and write up proposal
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK+cjwatson to pull joint fingers out and write up proposal
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<mdz> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<mdz> anything else?
<pitti> the next meeting will be the constituting one with the new board, right?
<pitti> so I guess meeting lead rotation, meeting time, etc. should be discussed in that meeting
<persia> Should not a date, time, and lead for that meeting be set at this one though?
<cjwatson> we might as well just use the same time, and let the new board decide on what's convenient for them
<cjwatson> I'm not sure we can know a lead before knowing who's going to be on the board :)
<mdz> we could select 3 ranked options, and since it is a 7/9 election we could be guaranteed to get one right ;-)
<persia> I was thinking someone could volunteer to chair, and if they didn't happen to be on the board, act as a facilitator for that meeting alone.
<cjwatson> I can do that
<mdz> I think the "old" board should turn up at the next meeting regardless, to help with continuity
<mdz> at least some of us
<mdz> I will be traveling to a time zone which would make participation difficult
<pitti> I'm happy to join that meeting
<mdz> [agreed] cjwatson and pitti will participate in the next DMB meeting regardless of the election outcome
<MootBot> AGREED received:  cjwatson and pitti will participate in the next DMB meeting regardless of the election outcome
<mdz> you can work out what to do about a chair between yourselves ;-)
<mdz> any other business?
<mdz> please remember to vote if you haven't already
<mdz> ok, thanks all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:25.
<pitti> thanks all
 * apw zones in
 * cking_ is here
 * ogasawara waves
 * smb is there
 * manjo waves
<rtg> bjf: yo
<bjf> Roll Call
 * apw appears again
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:04. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: amitk to meet with keybuk on automated boot tests
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: amitk to meet with keybuk on automated boot tests
 * jjohansen fades in
<bjf> amitk, you are up
<ogasawara> I think he's on holiday?
<ogasawara> nm, that was yesterday
<bjf> we'll skip him for now
<bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs (1 bug, 4 blueprints) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<ogasawara> Alpha 2 Milestoned Bugs (23 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21444
<ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (all In Progress) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21444
<ogasawara>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (tracked in release meeting) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21444
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ec2/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21444
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-mvl-dove/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21444
<ogasawara> * Release Targeted Bugs (88 bugs) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
<ogasawara>  * 8 linux kernel bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux
<ogasawara>  * 3 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-fsl-imx51
<ogasawara>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ec2
<ogasawara>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-mvl-dove
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04
<ogasawara> nothing kernel specific listed there
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> any questions on any of this? is that pgraner guy around?
<pgraner> bjf: sorry I'm here
<pgraner> bjf: expenses are due today ... :-)
<pgraner> bjf: no questions
<bjf> pgraner, thanks, moving on ...
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> bjf: nothing new to update
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
<apw> no change since last meeting.  mostly complete
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> config checker is now in and checking things
<apw> we have a few config changes coming down the pipe from other teams which are going in
<apw> otherwise quiet
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<apw> i had a poke about with a nouveau drop which may be compatible with our tree.  trying to acertain if it would be good as a default
<apw> the main drop is definatly a 'lbm' style component
<apw> ..
<tjaalton> why?
<tjaalton> why not in the main package
<bjf> sconklin, New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)
<apw> cause it has dependancies on updating the whole of drm
<tjaalton> no, four commits thats all
<apw> those 4 commits are big, and those commits do not apply without other patches
<tjaalton> ok then
<apw> the version which was applied resonably well to .32 was an older nouveau drop
<apw> which is what i was referring to previously.  not had a chance to test it yet
<apw> ..
<bjf> sconklin, you have anything to add?
<sconklin> no
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<manjo> no change there since last meeting
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> Upstream AppArmor update incoming today, just cleaning up some commit messages.  I still need to file the compiler bug that was tripping me up
<jjohansen> The kernel side of policy optimizations is done, I should have user side dfa
<jjohansen> minimization in by the end of the week.  If there is time the table packing
<jjohansen> part of optimization can be done for alpha3
<apw> jjohansen, ok will look for it tommorrow
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<apw> 2.6.32.2 brought in some regressions in performance
<apw> (boot performance) those turn out to be present already but triggered more often in this combination
<apw> i think i have this nailed, an interaction between acpi battery and hpet
<apw> am testing a couple of patches to sort it out now
<apw> this may give us another 0.05 as a bonus
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> I have my "crack-of-the-day" builds going. I've sent out email to a few of the alsa folks letting them know
<bjf> about them.
<bjf> ..
<apw> when might they be announced publically ?
<bjf> apw, I guess I can do that any time
<bjf> apw, I'll try to get an email out today
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<bjf> skipping
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> I am working on an EC2 update that should land today
<apw> jj is that against the ec2 branch in lucid?
<jjohansen> yeah
<jjohansen> just pulling in suses updates to the patches
<smb> Dapper:     2.6.15-55.81 (security)
<smb> Hardy:      2.6.24-26.64 (security)
<smb> -LBM:       2.6.24-26.35 (proposed)[26]  0/ 1 verifications done
<smb> -LUM:       2.6.24-26.44 (proposed)[26]  0/ 1 verifications done
<smb> Intrepid:   2.6.27-16.44 (security)
<smb> Jaunty:     2.6.28-17.58 (security)
<smb> Karmic:     2.6.31-17.54 (proposed)[26]  9/19 verifications done
<smb> -LBM:       2.6.31-17.19 (proposed)[26]  0/ 1 verifications done
<smb> -fsl-imx51: 2.6.31-107.18 (proposed)[18] 16/34 verifications done
<smb> -mvl-dove:  2.6.31-210.21 (proposed)[15] 16/35 verifications done
<smb> Proposed kernels could move to updates soon. Trying to get some feedback
<smb> on the arm kernels to preferably move them together with the main kernel.
<smb> The next upstream stable (2.6.31.10, 2.6.32.3) are coming up.
<smb> oops
<jjohansen> :)
<apw> ok i'll hold the upload for now ...
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> i've recently applied 2.6.32.2 but had regressions.  those look resolved.  would be uploading today, but the compilers are building right now
<apw> so will have to wait for those to complete.
<apw> REMINDER: you want anything in Alpha-2 we need it in and uploaded by monday at the very latest
<apw> if its going to be monday make sure i know as i want to upload friday
<apw> with people in the air etc.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<bjf> I think we got this already :-)
<bjf> a
<smb> as above
<bjf> anything to add?
<smb> yeah, somehow return key has a live of its own
<smb> nope
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<ogasawara> == regression-potential (up 10) ==
<ogasawara> 26 lucid bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential+lucid&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> == regression-update (up 2)==
<ogasawara> 7 karmic bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+karmic&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> 5 jaunty bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+jaunty&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> 2 intrepid bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+intrepid&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> 1 hardy bug
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+hardy&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> == regression-release (down 2)==
<ogasawara> 58 karmic bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+karmic&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> 22 jaunty bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+jaunty&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> 12 intrepid bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+intrepid&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> 4 hardy bugs
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+hardy&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> == regression-proposed (no change)==
<ogasawara> 1 karmic bug
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-proposed+karmic&field.tags_combinator=ALL
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Due to the holiday, there wasn't much activity the previous bug day:
<ogasawara> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20091222.html
<ogasawara> The next bug day should be next week but we'll be sprinting.  I'll postpone it to Tues Jan 19.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20091222.html
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<jjohansen> Server team would like us to get a body looking at Bug #499785
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499785 in linux "nic-usb-modules should include asix" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499785
<ogasawara> jjohansen: I was going to send a patch for that shortly
<apw> ogasawara, can you get that on the list
<jjohansen> ogasawara: nice, thanks
<pgraner> bjf: no meeting next week since we are sprinting?
<bjf> Note: there will not be a meeting next week, the kernel team will be in London buried under snow.
<bjf> pgraner, you beat me to it
<bjf> :-)
<apw> heh in the airport burried ...
<bjf> anything else?
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:26.
<apw> bjf thanks
<hlippek>  
<alonswartz> hey folks, wasn't the EMEA meeting meant to start about 25 minutes ago?
<nixternal> alonswartz: according to my cal, 20:00, but it very well could be wrong
<nixternal> because it also says 22:00 for the CC, but our agenda says 21:00
<nixternal> silly Google calendar is probably foobarring me, and possibly your too?
<alonswartz> nixternal: according to the wiki page: The next meeting is scheduled for January 5th 2010, 19:00 UTC
<nixternal> hrmm
<LirazSiri> If you follow the link it translates into local time. That was 30 minutes ago. Strange.
<nixternal> right, but the google calendar for the meeting says 20:00 :/
<nixternal> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<alonswartz> nixternal: the calendar doesn't seem in sync with the wiki page, oh well... so we start in 30 minutes ?
<LirazSiri> Alright, so there was a mistake and the meeting is still today but half an hour later than the schedule on the wiki site.
<BlackZ> the EMEA meeting will start at 21:00
<LirazSiri> 21:00 UTC?
<BlackZ> nope, 20:00 UTC
<BlackZ> seems that there's a mistake on the wiki
<BlackZ> anyway, the EMEA meeting will start at 20:00 UTC
<popey> yes, it seems there is
 * popey pings forumsmatthew / phanatic / Seveas / stgraber / phanatic 
<Seveas> pong
<forumsmatthew> I'm here
<phanatic> pong
<popey> Apologies for getting the wiki wrong. I suspect that was my fault
<forumsmatthew> stuff happens
<Seveas> shall we begin?
<popey> Go!
<forumsmatthew> yes
<Seveas> ok, BlackZ you're up. Please introduce yourself
<BlackZ> Hi all, my name is Lorenzo De Liso, I'm 19 years old, I'm Italian, and I live in Italy. I'm a security consultant (I work in a Italian datacenter). I use ubuntu since 3 years about, and I like it. I study informatic enginner on the university Federico II in Naples. I worked and I work again to some bugs, I help to translate ubuntu in Italian, I help in ubuntu's Italian forum, I translate the Italian ubuntu wiki and I help in #ubuntu-it.
<Seveas> -1. There's no information about your contributions on your wikipage, launcpad karma is low, indicating limited contributions. Testimonials added by yourself, which is very bad...
<forumsmatthew> agreed -1
<popey> Yeah, -1, I'd certainly like to see more contributions listed and testimonials added by those people who are listed
<Seveas> phanatic, ?
<phanatic> sorry, i was on the phone. -1
<Seveas> ok, that's -4. BlackZ please make sure your wikipage is fully prepared next time :)
<Seveas> Ioneye seems to be missing
<Seveas> Shezif as well
<Seveas> LirazSiri, you're up
<LirazSiri> Hi everybody
 * stgraber waves
<LirazSiri> I'm 28 years old, from Israel. A software engineer by day and open source enthusiast by night.
<Seveas> hey stgraber!
<popey> LirazSiri: we've spoken before haven't we
<hlippek> hi all
<LirazSiri> yep
<popey> As I recall we rejected your application last time
<popey> on the grounds that we wanted to see more contributions to core ubuntu itself?
<Seveas> yes, last time we said -1, considering contributions to TurnKey not to be contributions to Ubuntu
<popey> if my memory is right
<LirazSiri> hey guys
<LirazSiri> the endorsements are stronger now
<forumsmatthew> You do have two testimonials this time. John's is pretty good. The other is helpful, if a little lukewarm.
<LirazSiri> I've been a contributing member to the news team for over a year now. Responsible for 5 sections
<Seveas> but the actual contributions haven't changed, have they?
<LirazSiri> They have evolved somewhat. TurnKey has gotten closer to Ubuntu. We've been collaborating with Ubuntu developers and discussing appliance development on the list.
<forumsmatthew> I guess it is going to depend on whether we consider helping with the weekly newsletter sufficient community involvement for membership
<Seveas> I've seen that and that's really encouraging LirazSiri
<Seveas> And sabdfl also said positive words about turnkey
<LirazSiri> On the subject of TurnKey's relationship with Ubuntu, you can read the endorsements on Alon's wiki page
<Seveas> those testimonials emphasize on "hope to work closer with..."
<Seveas> which is what I'd like to see as well, a bit closer collaboration
<LirazSiri> forumsmatthew: you have in the past granted membership to members of the Ubuntu news team and I've been doing that for much longer than the 3 months of sustained contribution described in the membership criteria
<Seveas> LirazSiri, but never based on news contributions alone I believe
<LirazSiri> Every week, I maintain all the statistics, package and security updates, etc.
<Seveas> LirazSiri, how much time do you spend on that each week?
<LirazSiri> That depends on the week
<LirazSiri> After releases it can take longer
<LirazSiri> because there are lots and lots of updates
<Seveas> how about this week or last?
<LirazSiri> About an hour
<Seveas> wait, that's unfair due to christmas
<LirazSiri> on average
<Seveas> to be perfectly blunt, one hour per week is not much as a contribution
<LirazSiri> well I divide my time between that and other projects
<popey> other ubuntu projects?
<Seveas> and I realize turnkeylinux is your bigger contribution, but I'm not sure whether that actually 'counts' for us
<LirazSiri> personally I feel TurnKey is a much larger contribution to Ubuntu. As the sabdfl stated, it's a new kind of contribution we're pioneering, so it's a bit difficult to get endorsements
<LirazSiri> there isn't an established framework.
<alonswartz> I hope you don't mind me dropping in, but TurnKey Linux a sort of LoCo for server appliances. Instead of helping introduce users to Ubuntu on a geographical basis, we help introduce users to Ubuntu by helping them quickly setup and deploy Ubuntu as a server platform. Through TurnKey, we have introduced tens of thousands of new users to Ubuntu as server platform (over 100,000 downloads).
<popey> I have downloaded turnkey
<popey> a couple of images
<LirazSiri> which ones?
<phanatic> that's about 60 hours total since you've started
<popey> an smb server and another
<forumsmatthew> I certainly don't mind, alonswartz . What you are saying is helpful.
<popey> i cant recall
<popey> I booted them up and played, liked what I saw, and shut them down and deleted them
<popey> that's not to say I didnt like or enjoy the work you do
<popey> merely that I had no use for them
<popey> so i wouldn't hold tooooo much sway with 100000 downloads :)
<forumsmatthew> do you see turnkey as a part of the Ubuntu community, an insider, or as a project that stands alongside Ubuntu?
<LirazSiri> that's still great, a lot of our users do that
<popey> sure, it's a great way to introduce ubuntu appliances to people
<popey> and i think thats valuable work
<LirazSiri> thanks!
<Seveas> dammit, I can't find the thread about TKL
<popey> in the same way that dell selling laptops running ubuntu is valuable work
<Seveas> popey, do you recall whether sabdfl said that we could consider contributions to TKL contributions to Ubuntu?
<popey> if I had more time I'd evaluate it properly
<LirazSiri> I can find the quote from the sadbfl if it helps
<Seveas> LirazSiri, it would
<LirazSiri> Note that we're also partnering up with Canonical to offer all TurnKey appliances through the new Ubuntu cloud initiative
<forumsmatthew> things that stand along side are helpful, but not integral, that is, the main project may benefit from their existence, but won't necessarily cease to exist or be harmed if the project disappears
<forumsmatthew> I'm looking for a balance
<popey> "Liraz, you are a valued member of the community, and that is true even if it takes a little while to build the case for Ubuntu membership. It takes time to establish yourself in something the scale of Ubuntu - especially if you are pioneering a new kind of contribution, which I think you are. If you were working mainly in an established area, there would be a network of folks who could immediately comment on your contribution. Since you
<popey> is what mark said
<LirazSiri> Ok I found the quote
<Seveas> popey, that got cut off at  'since yo'
<LirazSiri> let me cut and paste and paste the relevant part..
<popey> ". Since you aren't, you need to build that network, and raise the profile of your work."
<popey> also...
<Seveas> one more thing, for no other external project or canonical partner do we consider contribusions to them contributions to ubuntu
<popey> "In principle, I think building Turnkey *could well* turn out to be a great contribution to Ubuntu. If the Turnkey folks contribute patches, share war stories about EC2, build common infrastructure, participate in UDS etc, then I would say we should recognise that contribution. "
<popey> ^^ from Mark
<Seveas> thanks popey
<forumsmatthew> thanks, popey
 * popey hugs gmail
<LirazSiri> where is that from? I found another quote
<LirazSiri> I didn't know Mark spoke about TurnKey twice...
<forumsmatthew> so, based on that last sentence of Mark's comment, how much of that is happening
<alonswartz> popey: I've never seen that last quote... ?
<forumsmatthew> patches? infrastructure? UDS even?
<popey> I have seen discussion of Turnkey on the devel mailing list very recently, talking about webmail.
<popey> er, webmin
<Seveas> erk
<Seveas> webmin
<alonswartz> popey: that discussion got started off talking about appliance development
<popey> heh
<LirazSiri> guys, I'm trying to copy paste but have trouble with my application so I'm going to restart it. Back in a jiffy
<alonswartz> which was in reply to a previous thread regarding developing appliances as deb packages
<popey> sure, lets not get too bogged down in one specific discussion on  -devel list
<Seveas> yeah, you clearly are doing that the correct way
<popey> the criteria for membership is 'significant and sustained' contribution to ubuntu
<alonswartz> we has just released tklpatch, a tool to patch and create appliances
<Seveas> alonswartz, have you ever thought of using puppet to create appliances?
<popey> I'm keen for us to not spend the entire meeting on Turnkey (as we did last time)
<Seveas> popey, me too, I'm just waiting for liraz to return
<Seveas> ah, speak of the devil :)
<alonswartz> Seveas: its not the best fit, but lets talk about that later (i agree with popey)
<LirazSiri> OK, hopefully this will work now
<LirazSiri> Liraz, you are a valued member of the community, and that is true even if it takes a little while to build the case for Ubuntu membership. It takes time to establish yourself in something the scale of Ubuntu - especially if you are pioneering a new kind of contribution, which I think you are. If you were working mainly in an established area, there would be a network of folks who could...
<LirazSiri> ...immediately comment on your contribution. Since you aren't, you need to build that network, and raise the profile of your work.
<LirazSiri> Others have gone before you in this. The IRC community now has folks devoted to nourishing that part of the community, as do the Forums, translation, documentation, marketing, development, QA etc. Each of those communities had good leaders who now help in the recognition of the people who do great work there. Without those leaders, it would be impossible for the regional membership boards,...
<LirazSiri> ...or worse, the CC, to recognise the full diversity of contribution that goes into something like 9.04. So, please be patient. The criterion for membership if "substantial and sustained contribution", there is no rush. It is NOT a popularity contest
<LirazSiri> ^^^ Mark
<Seveas> yeah, I've seen that quote and it confirms my opinion
<Seveas> ok, summing up my opinion: I think TurnKey is great, but am -1 on membership for LirazSiri (and alonswartz for that matter). This would easily change to a +1 if in the mean time sabdfl/CC consider contributions to TurnKey to be contributions to Ubuntu as well.
<forumsmatthew> if we could find a way to document that (or how) Turnkey development directly contributes to the Ubuntu community
<popey> Ok, so the specific recommendations to take away from that are 'build that network' and 'raise the profile of your work'  (within the Ubuntu community)
<forumsmatthew> doh, you beat me to it
<forumsmatthew> I echo Seveas comments above
<LirazSiri> that's what we've been doing with the discussions in ubuntu-devel
<LirazSiri> But there's no way to currently integrate the projects unfortunately
<Seveas> so basically, I want you to go back to Mark or the CC Liraz. I think you've made progress but I feel this is above us to decide
<forumsmatthew> agreed
<popey> LirazSiri: i see _one_ thread on ubuntu-devel with your name on it
<LirazSiri> that's a pretty extensive thread popey
<forumsmatthew> I'm -1 for now, but hope to see that change with some further community integration
<popey> its 12 mails
<popey> thats not an extensive thread
<Seveas> popey, stgraber, phanatic: can I please get a +1/-1.
<forumsmatthew> (and also for alonswartz for the moment, since he is also to be considered shortly)
<LirazSiri> doesn't the two contributions together count though?
<popey> two?
<Seveas> -1 on alonswartz as well for the same reason. It's not a we-dont-want-you -1, but a not-sure-what-to-do -1
<LirazSiri> I have received a strong endorsement from Ubuntu News editor?
<forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, the UWN is useful and appreciated, but I can't think of a single instance where we conferred membership with that as the SOLE or MAIN community contribution.
<LirazSiri> I'm thinking maybe volunteering on a regular basis for a year shouldn't be discounted so quickly. Especially in combination with other contributions. Even if they are a bit out of the normal framework
<forumsmatthew> If we can document the addition of TKL as a part of the wider Ubuntu community, that would be great
<LirazSiri> forumsmatthew: but my contributi
<LirazSiri> sorry cut in mid sentence
<LirazSiri> anyhow. its a judgment call. I feel that my previous rejection raised the bar is creating some resistance
<popey> not at all
<forumsmatthew> not really
<alonswartz> forumsmatthew: what do you consider the "wider ubuntu community" ?
<popey> we look at each application individually
<forumsmatthew> things which are specific to Ubuntu and not potentially side projects with only a light affiliation
<Seveas> popey, stgraber, phanatic: can I please get a +1/-1. We have more candidates to come and not much time.
<phanatic> LirazSiri: the problem is that we don't know how to judge TKL involvement, and your UWN contribution was a total of ca. 60 hours (according to yourself), which is far from enough in my book. so it's a -1 from me.
<forumsmatthew> TKL is wonderful, but we can't yet document it is internal to the Ubuntu community, only that it benefits as a project that stands along side
<popey> I will -1 for now. I would like to see more contribution to ubuntu from TKL
<LirazSiri> forumsmatthew: if Alon and I traveled all over the world and helped thousands of people set up Ubuntu on the server, I don't think anyone would say that isn't enough
<stgraber> I'm going to -1 on this one until we know how to judge TKL contributions and Ubuntu News contributions alone don't seem enough for membership (at least for me)
<LirazSiri> I don't think we should get discounted because we've figured out a more efficient way of doing exactly that...
<Seveas> ok thanks guys
<forumsmatthew> does the development work on TKL happen in a way that contributes directly to Ubuntu, or is that a wonderful side effect? We are not qualified to judge, and that is the issue, LirazSiri
<popey> LirazSiri: perhaps you should look at partner status?
<popey> thats what other vendors of products do
<LirazSiri> we're not a vendor, we're a sister project
<Seveas> LirazSiri, please talk to the CC and ask them whether contributions to TKL should be seen as contributions to Ubuntu. Pending that decision, your application is now being rejected I'm afraid
<Seveas> hlippek, you're up next, please introduce yourself
<LirazSiri> Alright. Thanks anyway. Cheers!
<Seveas> hlippek seems to be missing
<hlippek> hi my name is hendrik im 29 years. living in haburg and work in softwaredevelopment for 5 years now
<Seveas> ah apologies
<forumsmatthew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<forumsmatthew> please read this and follow the directions under preparing your application
<Seveas> -1 please read that wikipage forumsmatthew just linked and prepare yourself for these meetings
<phanatic> i'm afraid it's a -1 from me as well
<forumsmatthew> to make it official -1
<popey> hlippek: I'd like to see some testimonials, and indication of a sustained contribution to Ubuntu on your wiki page please... -1 for now..
<hlippek> right im very new in the comunity
<stgraber> -1
<popey> great to have you here hlippek !
<forumsmatthew> no problem, please come back when you are prepared
<forumsmatthew> :)
<popey> keep up the great work, and come back to us in maybe 3-6 months
<popey> we always need new blood :)
<Seveas> alonswartz is up next. forumsmatthew and myself already voted -1 because his application is based on TKL as well
<alonswartz> did you even read my wiki page guys?
<Seveas> alonswartz, I have
<forumsmatthew> yes
<alonswartz> in the past i worked with zul to get the confconsole into karmic
<phanatic> alonswartz: i did, you have very good testimonials
<alonswartz> and with soren on a number of issues
<alonswartz> wrote a library that will be included in the ec2-init package
<Seveas> I know you've done more non-TKL contributions than Liraz, but I'd consider TKL a key part of it
<alonswartz> yes, i too consider it a key part
<Seveas> besides that, membership applications based on packaging are better directed to the motu council as they can judge these contributions better
<alonswartz> as we are trying to bring the projects closer together...
<Seveas> so the -1 from me means "I don't know what to do" and not "I don't want you"
<hlippek> ok, i havent read already about the time of contribution. but ill stii be active in the community
 * forumsmatthew repeats what Seveas just said
<popey> thanks hlippek
<alonswartz> OK, thanks guys...
<popey> the development work you seem to have done all very much revolves around TKL..
<alonswartz> popey: does it matter?
<alonswartz> if it benefits both ubuntu and turnkey, i don't see the problem
<Seveas> popey, as long as it's a contribution to Ubuntu, that doesn't matter :)
<popey> well thats my point
<popey> how does di-live help ubuntu?
<forumsmatthew> and what we need help establishing
<popey> or tklpatch?
<alonswartz> regarding di-live, there has been talk about adding support to ubuntu-server to run live
<popey> when I said 'revolves around' I meant 'is limited to'
<popey> ok, thats useful
<alonswartz> which is what di-live does.
<Seveas> with tklpatch included in ubuntu, making tkl-like applications would be easier, so that's useful
<popey> where was that talk?
<alonswartz> about a year ago i spoke to cjwatson
<alonswartz> but it wasn't needed back then, it might be in the future
<popey> right
<popey> so a year ago (two releases of ubuntu) you had a discussion with a developer about possibly including something in the future
<alonswartz> regarding tklpatch, ignore the name, its a generically useful tool to create appliances
<popey> that to me isn't a sustained contribution to ubuntu
<alonswartz> which was the basis for that long thread on ubuntu-devel
<popey> which long thread?
<alonswartz> the thread you referred to when talking to liraz
<popey> the 12 mail one that has run this month?
<popey> a year later?
<popey> which mostly focussed on the pro/con of webmin
<Seveas> popey, "TurnKey Linux's take on Ubuntu appliance development: KISS"
<alonswartz> Seveas: yes, that one
<popey> I still dont see one conversation with a developer and one small thread on -devel as a sustained contribution.
<Seveas> 33 mails so far. More than 12 but not very long.
<popey> hmm
<popey> o rly
<popey> -devel or -devel-discuss?
<Seveas> -devel
<popey> i see only 12 mails
<popey> how odd
<popey> ahh, broken thread, my bad
 * popey stabs gmail
<czajkowski> popey: love hate relationship with gmial tonight
<popey> indeed
<popey> I will go +0
<popey> positive testimonials of potential future work, not a ringing endorsement of past achievements
<Seveas> ooh, well said
<popey> I truly value what TKL are doing, I think the range of VM images and the simplicity you've brought are exceptionally valuable to new users.
<alonswartz> when you take into account introducing tens of thousands of new users to ubuntu (just like a loco), and the development work, i would think that is a sustained and considerate contribution ...
<Seveas> let's not rehash the entire TKL discussion please
<alonswartz> Seveas: ok
<Seveas> stgraber, phanatic: votes please
<popey> alonswartz: I dont believe you can use those numbers
<popey> I am one of the people who downloaded it, and I'm already a member
<phanatic> +0
<popey> .. and even then I deleted the VM
<popey> you need other ways of building a community around the product you have..
<LirazSiri> popey: isn't that like saying that introducing people to Ubuntu in LoCos shouldn't count because you know somebody that continued using Windows XP?
<popey> alonswartz / LirazSiri do you have a separate section on the ubuntu forums? do you have an irc channel?
<popey> i dont follow that logic
<Seveas> that two -1 and 2 +0
<alonswartz> popey: we have very active forums
<popey> I'm just arguing that apache download logs do not prove new users..
<Seveas> Today's score for the board: terrible. No new members :(
<forumsmatthew> agreed. rough day
<popey> but lots of active people Seveas !
<LirazSiri> popey: that's why we're applying for membership. We'd like to bring the two projects closer together. Even if only symbolically.
<popey> people contributing
<popey> you dont need membership for that LirazSiri
<popey> I'd compare TKL to crunchbang linux
<Seveas> does that still live?
<czajkowski> Seveas: some months I guess are going to be like that, but good to see folks trying
<popey> sadly not
<popey> well, kinda
<forumsmatthew> last month is the standard I would like to see
<popey> TKL and Crunchbang are projects that use Ubuntu technology, but dont specifically give technology back to the core product, but do generate a population of new users
<popey> how many users is hard to tell..
<technoviking> The EMEA folks need a few more minutes?
<forumsmatthew> people came prepared with great evidence and testimonials of sustained direct involvement in the Ubuntu community and that rocked. May we see that more often
<popey> no, I dont think so
<forumsmatthew> technoviking, I think we're done
<LirazSiri> we know how many active users we have from the apache logs of our package archive
<LirazSiri> If you parse the logs for archive.turnkeylinux.org, you can count unique IPs and get a good guess for how many people are actively using TurnKey
<Seveas> yeah, our meeting is done
<Seveas> see you next month!
<BlackZ> don't be sad, guys :)
<BlackZ> I will contribute again and I will prepare me well for few meetings :D
<Seveas> technoviking, the mic is yours
<forumsmatthew> goodbye, everyone!
<popey> o/
<BlackZ> thanks all ;)
<Seveas> BlackZ, awesome :)
<phanatic> bye everyone
<popey> technoviking: cc isnt for another hour
<alonswartz> thanks guys...
<popey> according to my calendar
<technoviking> the %^#@*#@ wiki is wrong again :)
<Seveas> so, the next hour will just be Mike entertaining us :)
<popey> oops
<persia> popey: Are you sure?  I have 21:00 UTC
<hlippek> se you in further meetings:-)
<popey> fridge says 22:00
<forumsmatthew> daylight savings time...the bane of humanity
<popey> I'm happy to do either
<pleia2> I'm here for 21
<popey> have I messed up _two_ meeting times in one day!?
<forumsmatthew> lol
<Seveas> yes
<forumsmatthew> you're just trying to make me feel better about myself
<popey> holy cow I'm rubbish
<popey> no, wasnt me :)
<popey> Created by: N for Ubuntu Fridge Calendar
<popey> whoever N is
<pleia2> it gets messed up with DST
<pleia2> the fridge is correct in the summer :)
<czajkowski> technoviking: doesnt this happen a lot to you :p
<forumsmatthew> I repeat: daylight savings time...the bane of humanity
<czajkowski> forumsmatthew: *hugs* so true
<forumsmatthew> :)
<czajkowski> see if folks stick to UTC no confusion
<technoviking> czajkowski: I'm from Indiana, I did not have daylight savings growing up:)
<Seveas> so now you do double DST to compensate? :)
<forumsmatthew> Arizona, where I am, still doesn't use it. Wisely, i believe
<technoviking> popey: Nick I think
<forumsmatthew> okay, I need to help my son with something
<forumsmatthew> bye, all!
<czajkowski> forestpiskie: toodles
<pleia2> so, are there only 3 of us?
<popey> bet more turn up in an hour
<popey> well, 52 mins
<czajkowski> technoviking: I hope you didnt rush from some place to be here for now
<forestpiskie> o/ czajkowski
<czajkowski> forestpiskie: don't mind me, I tab fail lots
 * popey pokes nixternal 
<cjohnston> hello
<forestpiskie> czajkowski: that's cool then - I wondered who I had forgotten ;)
<popey> technoviking / pleia2 / persia _can_ you be around in 48 mins, should the rest of the CC be around?
<pleia2> yeah
<persia> Um, I'm not actually in the CC :)
<technoviking> popey: I should be, useless I have to pick up my son at school
<popey> i know, but you said you were here for it...
<popey> maybe you didnt
<persia> Sure, I can be around.
<popey> I appear to be making up stuff
<pleia2> hehe
<Seveas> popey, what else is new?
<popey> So.. my mum (mom) made some wine out of grapes we had in our garden. I have had two glasses. It is entirely possible that this has clouded my ability to operate a keyboard.
<pleia2> :)
<popey> also.. snow!
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/webcam/index.html
<Pendulum> :)
<nigel_nb> popey: its beautiful
<Seveas> more snow: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=39995&id=1016333075
<popey> :)
<Seveas> fear my weapons! http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=818472&l=662ad781d3&id=1016333075
 * pleia2 peers in
 * nixternal hides in a corner
 * geser offers nixternal some black light for his corner
<technoviking> afternoon all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> o/
<technoviking> Is anyone else here for the CC meeting?
<pleia2> yep
<popey> o/
<nixternal> \o
<pleia2> looks like it just might be the 4 of us
<nixternal> looks like there are 3 items
<nixternal> 1st is dholbach and mdke, both seem to be afk
<pleia2> 2nd I think we need some background stuff pulled together
<nixternal> right, as for the 3rd one, we should just +1 and put it in to action
<nixternal> MC -> DMB
<nixternal> nothing to discuss really
<pleia2> right, I think that just needs a formal +1
<popey> shortest meeting eva!
<technoviking> fine with me
<popey> indeed
<technoviking> definite +1 for DMB membership
<persia> 3rd item needs more than a +1: someone has to go and make the change in LP.
<nixternal> I am fairly certain it was a given anyways
<pleia2> as for #2, we need to get together the documentation as to what each board does for appointments/elections and go from there with streamlining the process
<pleia2> I can start that this week
<nixternal> persia: right, which I am guessing will be easy enough
<pleia2> yeah, I'll mail the list my summary when it's done
<nigel_nb> time?
<pleia2> 5 minutes
<Silver_Fox_> 5 minutes nigel_nb
<nigel_nb> doh
<Joeb454> 4 minutes, actually :)
<Joeb454> unless my time is also wrong
<pleia2> it was 5ish before I hit enter! ;)
<Silver_Fox_> I still prefer to work in UTC.  Lessens confusion.
<Joeb454> pleia2: [23:55] < nigel_nb> time?
<Joeb454> [23:56] < pleia2> 5 minutes
<Silver_Fox_> 3 minutes now
<Joeb454> not that I'm being picky, even I'm not that fussy over things :P
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-01-06
<Silver_Fox_> Shall we begin?
<Joeb454> sounds good to me Silver_Fox_
<Silver_Fox_> Okay.
<starcraftman> I haz arrived, and perfectly on time!
<Silver_Fox_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is Silver_Fox_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Silver_Fox_> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC]Team channels, support in main channel or -help
<MootBot> New Topic: Team channels, support in main channel or -help
<Silver_Fox_> Go bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Thanks
<bodhi_zazen> I think it has been decided to move support to -help as much a possible
<bodhi_zazen> -help is much more active these days - go team
<bodhi_zazen> and feel free to ping me if assistance is needed
<IngForigua> Hi today is the beginners team meeting?
<Silver_Fox_> Yes IngForigua
<bodhi_zazen> short support questions are "OK" from time to time in the main channel
<starcraftman> Oh ok, so we not changing it to the main then? cabaret just turning into an alt hangout then?
<IngForigua> there are beginners team in spanish?
<bodhi_zazen> I would prefer to keep -beginners to team business and more "formal" and move as much team banter as possible to ##cabaret
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: but then what purpose does -beginners serve?
<bodhi_zazen> doing so has reduced the number of complaints I have recieved drastically
<Silver_Fox_> Is that not -beginners not banter channel anymore?
<starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: hmmmm, alright, so cabaret for really random stuff and main more "proper". I got ya.
<bodhi_zazen> although be aware ##cabaret is not an official ubuntu channel and so you may see some fairly off topic banter / links
<bodhi_zazen> yes please starcraftman
<bodhi_zazen> Please *try* to banter in ##cabaret
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  shall we move onto the vote?
<pleia2> is ##cabaret subject to the CoC?
<bodhi_zazen> I do not personally mind banter in the main channel, but at the team has grown banter seems to be causing issues
<bodhi_zazen> Not that I know of pleia2
<pleia2> ok, I won't be joining then
<lukjadOO7> So what is the vote exactly?
<bodhi_zazen> my understanding is ## channels are "unofficial"
<bodhi_zazen> 2 votes if you want
<bodhi_zazen> 1 - support to -help
<Silver_Fox_> Okay.
<bodhi_zazen> and
<bodhi_zazen> 2 - banter to ##cabaret
<lukjadOO7> bodhi_zazen: While I am in ##cabaret, I don't feel as comfortable chatting there.
<bodhi_zazen> LOL
<bodhi_zazen> why lukjadOO7 ?
<canthus13> Why not adopt an o4o policy similar to -offtopic?
<canthus13> rather than spreading out over more channels.
<bodhi_zazen> canthus13: what is that ? o4o policy ?
<lukjadOO7> bodhi_zazen: Because it's not with the CoC, so I feel somewhat uncertain as to what goes.
<maco> !o4o > bodhi_zazen
<ubottu> bodhi_zazen, please see my private message
<paultag> sorry I'm late :)
<canthus13> o4o is basically a policy that outlines topics where people should tread lightly.
<canthus13> maco: thanks.
 * canthus13 didn't realize ubottu was in here. :)
<dvz-> why not again, cut out help:  ubuntu-beginners  == support channel  and ubuntu-team == team banter and or team business?
<jgoguen> .msg ubottu !o4o
<bodhi_zazen> mainly for two reasons
<nigel_nb> dvz-: +1
<dvz-> leaves us still at 2 channels both of which can be governed by coc
<bodhi_zazen> #1 is that policy is really not working in the main channel
<jgoguen> dvz-: I thought that was proposed and shot down once?
<dvz-> jgoguen: this whole issue has been proposed and shot down many times.
<dvz-> more than once and by more than one person
<lukjadOO7> bodhi_zazen: Another thing is that I don't care to spread out chat on many different channels.
<bodhi_zazen> We (I) get too many complaints when the team banters in the main channel
<paultag> +1 bodhi_zazen
<maco> is that because it's banter or because of the specific topic of the banter?
<Silver_Fox_> Sorry but this is getting on.  I propose that this be discussed some more and we move onto another topic.
<Silver_Fox_> We have a full agenda
<starcraftman> I think we can just move to up down vote on bodhi's suggestions.
<lukjadOO7> Okay, can we vote about the moving help to -help?:
<lukjadOO7> Silver_Fox_: ^
<paultag> maco, we get off topic in #ubuntu-beginners, and most people expect help to be there.
<maco> paultag: ah ok
<bodhi_zazen> The team, in general, seems unable to tolerate o4o topics and there has been a real breakdown in tolerance in the main channel, IMO
<paultag> maco, where our real help channel is #ubuntu-beginners-help :)
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: and we get too many comlaints when people help others in the main channel....other than these meetings, what team business is of so great of time investment that it deems we need a new channel for offtopic?
<bodhi_zazen> We should move these meeting to the main channel, IMO
<lukjadOO7> dvz-: I agree, but some people are upset about it.
<nhandler> persia: I know I'm a bit late, but freenode guidelines would still apply, but that is about it (re ##cabaret)
<nhandler> err pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> dvz-: it is more that I am tired of the complaints
<dvz-> lukjadOO7: if we limited the team channel to strictly business, then it would remain idle a majority of the time then.
<starcraftman> So bodhi's proposal to summarize as I get it: Help -> long answer support and beginners  -> proper team business/short support and cabaret > banter really off topic, unCoC.
<bodhi_zazen> either the team needs to be more tolerant and polite or move the banter
<lukjadOO7> dvz-: Yes, I know.
<starcraftman> Can we have 1 vote on all that.
<pleia2> nhandler: I knew the general rules for ## channels, I was just hoping that even though unofficial, a banter channel promoted by an official Ubuntu project would also be held to the CoC, it makes me very uncomfortable that it doesn't
<nigel_nb> we'll split the votes into 3?
<lukjadOO7> dvz-: I'm not for it, but I understand bodhi_zazen's point of view. I'm going to +0 it
<lukjadOO7> dvz-: Actualy I'll -0 it
<pleia2> (which is why I won't go there)
<nhandler> pleia2: It isn't in the Ubuntu name space either, so not even the Ubuntu IRC Guidelines would really apply.
<lukjadOO7> pleia2: +1
<lukjadOO7> I would suggest that perhaps a code of conduct be created for ##cabaret ?
<pleia2> nhandler: just because they aren't required to apply, doesn't mean we can't say they do :)
<dvz-> i guess I'm not completely aware of what the "offtopic" banter that seems to offend people is
<lukjadOO7> It need not be too strict, but something to keep people feel safe
<drs305> lukjadOO7: It's not "our" channel.
<pleia2> lukjadOO7: is the CoC too strict?
<lukjadOO7> pleia2: I don't think so.
<pleia2> nor do I
<lukjadOO7> pleia2: I'm just saying that we create a new CoC for the channel
<nhandler> pleia2: I personally do not have any reason with not holding people to the CoC in there
<nhandler> lukjadOO7: Is there any part of the Ubuntu CoC that people do not believe should apply there?
<nigel_nb> lukjadOO7: can we have CoC apply to the channel?
<PabloRubianes> sorry i am late
<lukjadOO7> I would personally like to see the channel be under the CoC.
<nigel_nb> +1 lukjadOO7
<lukjadOO7> nigel_nb: I don't see why not.
<starcraftman> PabloRubianes: s'okay we haven't really gotten anywhere.
<nhandler> We already hold people to the CoC in -beginners
<maco> +1 lukjadOO7
 * pleia2 nods
 * starcraftman puts on music and waits for a bit of agreement.
<duanedesign> if we put cabareet under the CoC then what makes it different than #ubuntu-beginners
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  Any more comments or questions.  I would like to put up a vote that this topic be discussed at a later date.
<lukjadOO7> If the channel can't use the CoC for legal reasons or wordings, I suggest we copy/paste it
<jgoguen> duanedesign: The fact that ##cabaret isn't somewhere users come expecting some help?
<bodhi_zazen> I think we need to at least vote on moving support to -help
<lukjadOO7> And name it the Code of Cabaret.
<starcraftman> Silver_Fox_: make sure vote topic clear. We have discussed a few alternate suggestions.
<drs305> How are we setting guidelines for a channel not ours - open to anyone who happens along?
<canthus13> rename #ubuntu-beginners to #ubuntu-beginners-team and keep -help the same.
<paultag> better yet:
<lukjadOO7> drs305: It was created by bodhi_zazen I believe
<paultag> Rename #ubuntu-beginners-help to #ubuntu-beginners, and create #ubuntu-beginners-team, or -cafe
<jgoguen> drs305: The same as other channels set guidelines that all users entering are expected to adhere to
<nigel_nb> paultag: +1 (that would do)
<paultag> It would clear up a _lot_ of confusion
<paultag> Silver_Fox_, and I suggested this before
<dvz-> +1 paultag
<nigel_nb> paultag's suggestion would clear a lot of confusion
<nigel_nb> and it would help keep a team channel for offtopic *under the CoC*
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: easier to move -help to -team
<starcraftman> paultag: then all long support questions and official business in the team channel and cafe for CoC talk. Right?
<nigel_nb> either way, the idea is the same
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, yeah, but people assume #ubuntu-beginners, is for beginners, and -cafe does not look like a support channel
<nigel_nb> exactly
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, we get a lot of incoming support questions in -beginners that we have to tell to /join #ubuntu-beginners-help
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: last meeting or so ago, someone else (paul or silver) offered to redo the access permissions on the channels, i believe
<paultag> I'll do it
<paultag> I don't mind tedious work
<nigel_nb> Silver_Fox_: is it possible to vote on paultag's suggestion?
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: should we choose that route... i remember the one complaint when i propsed the idea initially was "too much of a hassle setting permissions"
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]  Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe
<MootBot> Please vote on:   Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<bodhi_zazen> Why do we need 4 channels -beginner -team -help and -cafe ?
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 3 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, we would get rid of team and help
<Rocket2DMn> +0
<jgoguen> bodhi_zazen: As I see it, -help is redirected to -beginners
<MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, just -beginners, and -beginners-cafe
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<starcraftman> +0
<drs305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from starcraftman. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 6 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 6
<lukjadOO7> This is somewhat confusing.
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 8 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8
<IngForigua> +1
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from IngForigua. 9 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 9
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 9 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 9
<lukjadOO7> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 9 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 9
<Silver_Fox_> Any more votes?
<bodhi_zazen> and I agree with pleia2 , I do not want -cafe to be under the CoC, at least I do not want off topic o4o banter associated with this team =)
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: we would ultimately  be switching -help to -beginners .... -beginners to -beginners-team  ... and -beginners-cafe to banter..then dropping -help i believe is the proposed idea
<bodhi_zazen> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 9 for, 1 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 8
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 1 against. 5 abstained. Total: 8
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]
<MootBot> AGREED received:
<Silver_Fox_> whoops ;)
<lukjadOO7> Uhhh
<bodhi_zazen> dvz-: why not leave -beginners and simply move -help to -team
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED] Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe
<nhandler> I would be glad to help with the actual channel management to handle this stuff
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen:  clears up confusion for NON-team members
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]  Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners
<MootBot> Please vote on:   Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pleia2> +1
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dvz-> ubuntu-beginners  (non-members view this as help for beginners0, not a team channel)
<paultag> nhandler, roger :)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<drs305> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from drs305. 5 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<lukjadOO7> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 5 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 6 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Rocket2DMn> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Rocket2DMn. 7 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 9 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
<nigel_nb> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nigel_nb. 10 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 11 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9
<Silver_Fox_> Any more votes?
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: 9
<bodhi_zazen> I can see two channels -beginners and -beginners-team
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]   Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners.
<MootBot> AGREED received:    Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners.
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: right...and for the offtopic...i don't care if it's -cafe or if it's cabaret..or whatever else we decide
<dvz-> +1
<PabloRubianes> cabaret is no longer use?
<bodhi_zazen> we need to discuss off topic / banter
<bodhi_zazen> we either need to be more tolerant as a team
<lukjadOO7> Are we voting on the policy on #ubuntu-beginners-cafe ?
 * bodhi_zazen points out the vast majority of complaints come from team members
<bodhi_zazen> or move the banter out of #beginners space
<drs305> Are the complaints being aired during the discussions? I haven't seen them.
<bodhi_zazen> drs305: no, the complaints come to me in PM, and then I try to resolve the issues
<jgoguen> I don't necessarily think the lack of public complaints should be taken as any implication that there isn't a problem
<bodhi_zazen> +1 jgoguen
<dvz-> good point drs305 ...i haven't been around much due to family issues - but if someone has a complaint, i think that they should have the courtesy to bring it up to the person that offended them either in PM or chat before going to the team lead immediately
<nigel_nb> bodhi_zazen: can I suggest that if someone has any issue with another person, PM directly
<drs305> I believe courtesy includes asking for a cessation of the behavior at the time rather than a PM to bodhi.
<paultag> nigel_nb, but sometimes it's hard
<lukjadOO7> Maybe we could wait until the next meeting to actually work on the cafe and offtopic?
<bodhi_zazen> seriously, the banter is problematic and I do not see moving to another official ubuntu channel or a channel associated with the BT as a solution
<jgoguen> An assumption like that forces people to speak out who may not be comfortable doing so, meaning they'll not speak out and possibly leave thinking we're a bunch of hooligans
<maco> what if the complaint is about the team lead?
<dvz-> it's a two way street...if you're offended by someone, we can't read your minds, talk to that person about it...it may be as simple as a pm and talking to them about it.
<lukjadOO7> Or until the end?
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]  Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret
<MootBot> Please vote on:   Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nigel_nb> +0
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> Abstention received from nigel_nb. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
<starcraftman> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from starcraftman. 7 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7
<lukjadOO7> -0
<paultag> nigel_nb, like take for example, me. If I do something that offends, most people have met me since the beginning, and if I do something dumb, it's hard to confront a more senior member, rather then a neutral lead like bodhi_zazen
<Joeb454> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 7
<lukjadOO7> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 7 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 7
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 8 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 8
<drs305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 8 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 8
<Rocket2DMn> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 8 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 8
<pleia2> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from pleia2. 8 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 8
<jgoguen> maco: There's a council mailing list that's private...admittedly the team lead is on that list, but there's enough other people on it that it should be able to be fairly dealt with
<dvz-> paultag: i have no qualms confronting you :-D
<nigel_nb> paultag: suggestion
<IngForigua> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from IngForigua. 9 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 9
<paultag> dvz-, I know that :)
<paultag> nigel_nb, yo
<pleia2> (I don't think we should be promoting an out of namespace channel that doesn't adhere to ubuntu community standards)
<nigel_nb> can we have a formal process for this?
<Silver_Fox_> Any more votes?
<lukjadOO7> pleia2:
<maco> +1 pleia2
<juju2143> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 10 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 10
<MootBot> +1 received from juju2143. 11 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 11
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: we are not promoting any such thing
<maco> oh bah. ignore mine. im not a votable person
<nhandler> pleia2: Nobody said anything about acitvely promoting it afaik
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 0 against. 8 abstained. Total: 11
<nigel_nb> paultag: in case you are offended, mail the person with a copy to the bt council
<dvz-> pleia2: i think this is merely a,  "if it doesn't relate to the team, take it elsewhere"
<nigel_nb> so there can be a resolution and somone else gets to know about it and mediate
<paultag> nigel_nb, yeah, but again, if they are on the council, that can be hard
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret.
<MootBot> AGREED received: Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret.
<pleia2> fair enough
<nigel_nb> paultag: we cud make a friendly approach to it
<nigel_nb> paultag: something for the stalker fG?
<paultag> nigel_nb, perhaps :)
<dvz-> we have a stalker fg?
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE] -help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners
<MootBot> Please vote on:  -help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dvz-> why wasn't i told about this?
<paultag> dvz-, that group may or may not exist
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nigel_nb> +1
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
<Rocket2DMn> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 8 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8
<lukjadOO7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjadOO7. 9 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 9
<lukjadOO7> +0
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 10 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 10
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 11 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 11
<Silver_Fox_> Any more votes?
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 11
<drs305> -1
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]-help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners
<MootBot> AGREED received: -help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC]BT Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic: BT Roadmap
<Silver_Fox_> Go bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone have any comments on the roadmap ?
<duanedesign> o/
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Do you have a link to the draft of it handy?
<nigel_nb> bodhi_zazen: link please?
<lukjadOO7> bodhi_zazen: Roadmap link?
<bodhi_zazen> I put the item on the agenda, but was hoping others were taking the lead on this
<duanedesign> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/duanedesign/sandbox
<duanedesign> ^^^^
<bodhi_zazen> thanks duanedesign
<duanedesign> I have a working draft in my sanbox
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: It has been on for a while (I think I initially added it a few months ago)
<Silver_Fox_> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/duanedesign/sandbox
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/duanedesign/sandbox
<nigel_nb> Suggestion: Can we have something like the bugsquad's 5-a-day?
<duanedesign> I think there are some good ideas there
<lukjadOO7> Looks find to me
<nigel_nb> for answers, bugs, and forum help
<jgoguen> nigel_nb: Sounds like a good idea!
<bodhi_zazen> 6 weeks I think nhandler
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  if nothing to vote I on I am going to move onto the next topic.
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Hmm...Feels like longer
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC]Remove the Stalkers FG from BT Structure
<MootBot> New Topic: Remove the Stalkers FG from BT Structure
<starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: Oh right this thing, my only comment is not exactly sure I'm a fan of the wiki one. I'm planning a doc meeting soon so we might discuss such a target.
<paultag> oh WTF
<paultag> -1
<paultag> the Stalker FG does good work :)
<Silver_Fox_> Hmm,  ibuclaw is not here.
<nigel_nb> Silver_Fox_: can we hold off on this one?
<lukjadOO7> I'm against that
<bodhi_zazen> ibuclaw asked me to discuss this topic
<paultag> I'm in the stalking FG, I can address this :)
<Silver_Fox_> Go bodhi_zazen then =]
<nigel_nb> Silver_Fox_: we could potentially add more duties to stalker FG
<bodhi_zazen> basically, the purpose of the stalker group is quality control on the forms
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think the stalkers group has bee active
<bodhi_zazen> or perhaps it needs a new lead ?
<Joeb454> I'm off, not feeling great. Sorry guys
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, who is lead now? sdennie?
<nhandler> Bye Joeb454
<lukjadOO7> Later Joeb454
<Silver_Fox_> Bye Joeb454 .
<nigel_nb> bodhi_zazen: can we add quality control on IRC to stalker FG?
<bodhi_zazen> the idea is that all team members should participate in quality control
<bodhi_zazen> we could
<nigel_nb> bodhi_zazen: addressing complaints and issues with other members..
<lukjadOO7> bodhi_zazen: I suggest we make it have a better and broader focus
<bodhi_zazen> I think we either need to
<bodhi_zazen> 1. Find a lead for the stalkers, and revitalize it ...
<bodhi_zazen> or
<paultag> OK, speaking on behalf:
<bodhi_zazen> 2. Eliminate it
<nigel_nb> I can help lead it (if u're okay with me leading that is)
<nhandler> I think having the entire team participate in quality control sounds like a better solution for the long run
<jgoguen> nigel_nb: Quality control on IRC, IIRC, is the domain of the IRC FG as part of their mandate of help on IRC
<paultag> All of the members of the FG are regularly on IRC, LP and UF, and when we come across and BT member we take a look at it.
<bodhi_zazen> nigel_nb: I think moving the banter to ##cabaret is going to resolve 99.9 % of the current complaints
<paultag> I always ( _always_ ) watch IRC for quality of UBT members' help, and I think that is part of the stalking FG
<jgoguen> Having said that, I agree with nhandler
<nigel_nb> agree, but as paultag said ealier, it would be nice to have a small group to deal with it
<bodhi_zazen> removing a few problematic users from the channel has been effective on the rest of the complaints
<nhandler> paultag: I think most of us pay attention to the work of fellow BT members throughout the community
<paultag> nhandler, +1
<bodhi_zazen> If we are going to expand the focus , what irc channels ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, it would have to be #ubuntu-beginners, and #ubuntu
<bodhi_zazen> #ubuntu ? -beginners ? our channels only ?
<jgoguen> bodhi_zazen: At least the #ubuntu-beginners-* channels, and also if BT members are helping in #ubuntu
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, well, the UBT members are UBT members through Ubuntu, we should be making sure our good name is intact ;)
<bodhi_zazen> Sounds good to me
<paultag> +1 jgoguen
<bodhi_zazen> who would like to lead ?
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: This is why I feel it would be better to just get rid of the formal group and have it as a more informal quality control process
<lukjadOO7> jgoguen: +2
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]  Remove Stalker FG
<MootBot> Please vote on:   Remove Stalker FG.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag> I am in charge to two teams. I would not take on another
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<lukjadOO7> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from lukjadOO7. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<paultag> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from paultag. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<nigel_nb> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<jgoguen> nhandler: Would you have the council handle quality problems then?
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<PabloRubianes> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from PabloRubianes. 2 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<drs305> 0
<nigel_nb> I can help whoever is leading
<drs305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 2 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2
<nhandler> jgoguen: I see no issue with that
<lukjadOO7> jgoguen: The higher level ones that can't be handled
<MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 2 for, 5 against, 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 3 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2
<bodhi_zazen> If we keep the team, we need a lead
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, +1
<dvz-> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dvz-. 3 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2
<lukjadOO7> jgoguen: You voted wrong
<Silver_Fox_> Any more votes?
<jgoguen> >_<
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 5 against. 3 abstained. Total: -2
<jgoguen> lukjadOO7: Not like it changed the result :)
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED] Keep stalker FG
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Keep stalker FG
<paultag> Now, Leads:
<paultag> Who wants to lead the team?
<lukjadOO7> jgoguen: Well, yeah. But closer
 * jgoguen notes to extra-careful read the topic twice next time
<nhandler> I think we should hold off on choosing a lead until at least the next meeting
<paultag> fair enough nhandler
<nigel_nb> paultag: If u can take the lead, I'll help you with everything
<nhandler> That way, members who are not present now have a chance to put their name forward
<nigel_nb> nhandler: +1
<paultag> nigel_nb, I won't take lead, I have two FGs already ;)
<paultag> +1 nhandler
<paultag> nigel_nb, put yourself in there :)
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE] Decided new leads at next meeting
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Decided new leads at next meeting.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjohnston> make a page for people to nominate themselves?
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<paultag> +1
<jgoguen> +
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pleia2> +1
<nigel_nb> +1
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nigel_nb. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 10 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
<dvz-> +1
<lukjadOO7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 11 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 11
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjadOO7. 12 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 12
<drs305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 13 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 13
<Silver_Fox_> Any more votes?
<jgoguen> lukjadOO7: Although realistically, if everyone does quality control that's a major part of the stalker FG suddenly handled by everyone, unless we say Stalkers is like Forums and everyone is implicitly part of it
 * starcraftman is munching food why he's a bit quiet.
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 13 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 13
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 13 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 13
 * jgoguen takes starcraftman's food
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED] Decide new leads at next meeting
<lukjadOO7> jgoguen: Not everyone is part of the stalkers
<duanedesign> starcraftman: mmm i am so hungry
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Decide new leads at next meeting
<paultag> Cool. We should start a Mailing lost on this
<paultag> list *
<jgoguen> lukjadOO7: That's my point :)
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC]Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists
<MootBot> New Topic: Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists
<bodhi_zazen> mailing lost, LMAO
<nhandler> Does someone want the action to send it to the list?
<starcraftman> jgoguen: That's it, bodhi_zazen, I'm filling a complaint, you saw him swipe it right off my plate!
<Silver_Fox_> Go nhandler
<paultag> +1 -- great idea
<nigel_nb> +1
<lukjadOO7> jgoguen: I suggest that people have to be inducted in
<bodhi_zazen> move to vote ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, yup
<nhandler> We have several lists of FG members that we currently maintain. Most have outdated lists on the wiki
<paultag> LP is a lot better then wiki
<jgoguen> And more accurate
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists
<MootBot> Please vote on: Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Silver_Fox_> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<nigel_nb> and it expires too
<bodhi_zazen> +10
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<nigel_nb> +1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody> +1
<drs305> +1
<jgoguen> +1
<lukjadOO7> +0
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 1 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<starcraftman> I wanted clarity on this, is it just main membership or FGs too?
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 7 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<dvz-> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 9 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MootBot> Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 9 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
<jgoguen> starcraftman: Main AFAIK
<paultag> starcraftman, everything
<MootBot> Abstention received from dvz-. 9 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 10 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9
<lukjadOO7> +0
<nhandler> starcraftman: The ~ubuntu-beginners member list is already the official list for the team
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 11 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10
<nhandler> This is just FGs now
<Silver_Fox_> Anymore votes?
<starcraftman> paultag: so we will make separate groups umbrellad under the main then eh?
<jgoguen> starcraftman: Although if you're not in the main team, you're probably also not on a FG :)
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 10
<paultag> starcraftman, yis
<nhandler> They already are starcraftman
<starcraftman> paultag: rgr
<paultag> +1 nhandler
<starcraftman> alright, I'm just checking.
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists
<MootBot> AGREED received: Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists
<paultag> You can't be in a FG without being in the UBT
<nhandler> You can participate with the FG though
<nhandler> (You just can't be an official member)
<paultag> nhandler, for sure
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC] Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners
<MootBot> New Topic:  Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners
<jgoguen> Yes, I worded that poorly
<paultag> nhandler, we have a ton of dev heads that became UBT because of dev
<paultag> nhandler, take dvz- as example :)
<nhandler> :)
<Silver_Fox_> Hmm,  easwer is not here
<bodhi_zazen> http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/images/smilies/Beating_a_dead_horse.gif
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/images/smilies/Beating_a_dead_horse.gif
<Silver_Fox_> Heh
<bodhi_zazen> I think moving the banter makes logging of the main channel more palatable to most ?
<starcraftman> logging again?
<nigel_nb> In this case, we'd be logging the place where we help
<bodhi_zazen> see linky starcraftman =)
<nigel_nb> and I'm okay with that
<duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: and the logging might encourage the banter to be moved to cabaret
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]  Leave for now,  Discuss more in light of recent team channel changes
<MootBot> Please vote on:   Leave for now,  Discuss more in light of recent team channel changes.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> we need an up or down vote on loging
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lukjadOO7> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from lukjadOO7. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<nigel_nb> +1
<dvz-> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> Abstention received from dvz-. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<starcraftman> +0
<bodhi_zazen> -1
<MootBot> Abstention received from starcraftman. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 2 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<PabloRubianes> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from PabloRubianes. 2 for, 2 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 3 for, 2 against, 4 have abstained. Count is now 1
<drs305> +0
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 3 for, 2 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 2 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 5 for, 2 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 3
<paultag> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paultag. 5 for, 2 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Silver_Fox_> Anymore votes?
<valindil89> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from valindil89. 5 for, 2 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 2 against. 7 abstained. Total: 3
<nhandler> Just a reminder, only BT members should be voting
<pleia2> duanedesign: banter goes to -cafe :)
<bodhi_zazen> OK, but I'm warning you, if we do not decide on logs we need to post the dead horse icon and move it off the agenda =)
<lukjadOO7> I just would like to say, that I am not comfortable being logged publically
<Silver_Fox_> Hmm,  I don't think that was passed
<Silver_Fox_> Too many abstentions?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, +1
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: +0s do not block
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think we voted +1 on -cafe
<Silver_Fox_> Ahh,  okay
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, yeah we did :)
<bodhi_zazen> I think the vote was to move banter to ##cabaret
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]  Leave channel logging until later.
<MootBot> AGREED received:   Leave channel logging until later.
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, it was the first vote IIRC
<bodhi_zazen> yes, but that vote covered 3 topics
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC]Security Focus Group Plans for next year
<MootBot> New Topic: Security Focus Group Plans for next year
<bodhi_zazen> and the 3 were subsequently voted on
<dvz-> Silver_Fox_: you threw me off...
<Silver_Fox_> Hmm,  cprofit is not here.
<dvz->  Silver_Fox_ > [VOTE]  Leave for now,  Discuss more in light of recent team channel changes      "Leave for now"  i thought referred to "leave the mtg for now"
<dvz-> o.O
<bodhi_zazen> we do not need to vote if cprofit is not here and did not assign a proxy, just moe on
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC] Unvoice members of the beginners team in #ubuntu-beginners, it is against Irc (n)etiquette
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unvoice members of the beginners team in #ubuntu-beginners, it is against Irc (n)etiquette
<bodhi_zazen> *move*
<paultag> -1
<paultag> I find this silly.
<lukjadOO7> +1
<drs305> Why?
<Silver_Fox_> Does anyone know why we should do this?
<lukjadOO7> -1
<lukjadOO7> sorry
<paultag> the use of voice is to show a member from a non-member
<drs305> Not why silly, why unvoice?
<nhandler> I am curious as to what netiquette this violates. Many teams use a similar system (including freenode staff)
<paultag> +1 nhandler
<nigel_nb> pleia2 said its frowned upon in IRC
<paultag> I disagree vehemently
<bodhi_zazen> 'The use  of voice is frowned upon in Ubuntu channels, we are all "equals"
<nhandler> Being OPed when you don't need to is frowned upon, nothing wrong with voice
<nigel_nb> but if we remove voice, it would lead to bot abuse
<lukjadOO7> I would like to point out that votebot works with voice
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: It is used in a few Ubuntu channels as well
<nigel_nb> since bot would have to answer to everyone
<persia> Not that I frequent that channel, but one can usually calm a channel with social cues, rather than needing to restrict voice by technical means.  Using technical means may also dissuade new productive people from joining.
<nhandler> Don't worry about VoteBot. That should not affect our decision
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think I see voice in our channel that way, and we have so many that come and go, and we do have a very formal membership process, perhaps the most formal I know short of ubuntu membership
<paultag> +1 bodhi_zazen
<lukjadOO7> It also is a useful visual indicator to who is a team member
<paultag> +1 lukjadOO7
<nhandler> persia: Everyone can talk in the channel (it is not +m). Voice is just used to show team members
<paultag> +1 nhandler
<nhandler> Similar to #ubuntu-ops and how we voice people presenting in -classroom
<persia> Ah.  Ignore me then :)
<nhandler> :)
<paultag> persia, we are not _that_ bad ;)
<bodhi_zazen> In general, the use of voice has IMO helped people know who to contact in the channel and has worked well
<starcraftman> I don't see any reason to change current policy, all I got to note.
<nhandler> I agree bodhi_zazen
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE] Unvoice members of the beginners team IN #ubuntu-beginners
<jgoguen> I think +v in our channels actually serves a purpose, a new user can come in and will see the +v people first and (I think) be more likely to ask those people things
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Unvoice members of the beginners team IN #ubuntu-beginners.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> it might not be completely kosher irc netiquette-wise, but I think it's useful in -beginners
<Silver_Fox_> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<swoody> -1
<bodhi_zazen> -1
<nhandler> It also helps spot potential new members
<MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 4 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<jgoguen> -1
<PabloRubianes> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from jgoguen. 0 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5
<paultag> -1
<pleia2> -1
<nigel_nb> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from paultag. 0 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6
<MootBot> -1 received from PabloRubianes. 0 for, 7 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -7
<nhandler> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from pleia2. 0 for, 8 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -8
<lukjadOO7> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from nigel_nb. 0 for, 9 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -9
<MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 0 for, 10 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -10
<MootBot> -1 received from lukjadOO7. 0 for, 11 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -11
<dvz-> -1
<drs305> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from dvz-. 0 for, 12 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -12
<MootBot> -1 received from drs305. 0 for, 13 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -13
<Silver_Fox_> Anymore votes?
<starcraftman> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from starcraftman. 0 for, 14 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -14
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 14 against. 0 abstained. Total: -14
<cjohnston> wow
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED] Keep voice
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Keep voice
<starcraftman> haven't had a unanimous vote in a while.
<bodhi_zazen> w00t =)
<paultag> Haha, we unanimously hate that
<pleia2> :)
<paultag> w00t!!!
<Silver_Fox_> [TOPIC] New Members =]
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Members =]
<nigel_nb> paultag: one big unanimous decision team
<bodhi_zazen> W00T !!!
<nigel_nb> yaay!
<paultag> Who's up today?!
<dvz-> paultag: i am
<nhandler> cjohnston is up first
<Silver_Fox_> First up is cjohnston
<nigel_nb> ikt and cjohnston
<paultag> w00t! cjohnston :)
<cjohnston> o/
<nhandler> cjohnston: Do you have a link to your wiki?
<dvz-> cjohnston: word :D
<Silver_Fox_> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cjohnston
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cjohnston
<cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristopherJohnston
<nhandler> cjohnston: Do you want to tell us a little about yourself?
<nigel_nb> cjohnston is already an ubuntu member :)
<paultag> o/
<drs305> nhandler:  cj's looking on google for the answer.
<bodhi_zazen> it is OK nigel_nb , we will not hold that against cjohnston
<cjohnston> IRL I am a firefighter paramedic... Around here I am one of the leads on the User Days Team, a member of the Florida LoCo
<cjohnston> lol
<nigel_nb> bodhi_zazen: lol
<paultag> cjohnston, could you tell us about what LoCo work have you done, also a bit about what you did at UDS and what's up with User Days
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE]  cjohnston  for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:   cjohnston  for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<nigel_nb> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> Wait a minute Silver_Fox_
<drs305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paultag> Well sonofa
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nhandler> We still have questions for him
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<paultag> That sucked
<swoody> +1
<paultag> cut off short
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<drs305> too late
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<starcraftman> +1
<Silver_Fox_> Sorry nhandler ,
<paultag> I like you anyway cjohnston :P
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: twss
<cjohnston> thanks paultag
<lukjadOO7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjadOO7. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, Ha!
<jgoguen> bodhi_zazen: :D
<Silver_Fox_> Anymore votes?
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 11 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 11
<starcraftman> cjohnston: keep up the stellar work :)
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 11
<pleia2> hooray cjohnston :)
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]  Yay cjohnston
<MootBot> AGREED received:   Yay cjohnston
<cjohnston> thanks starcraftman and pleia2
<nigel_nb> congrats cjohnston :)
<dvz-> ahh..+1
<paultag> cjohnston, P.S. you only got away with that because of your record ;)
<swoody> woot! congrats cjohnston :)
<nhandler> Congrats cjohnston
<Silver_Fox_> Well done
<dvz-> i blacked out in FF7
<paultag> cjohnston, congrats :)
<nhandler> cjohnston: What is your LP name?
<cjohnston> thanks all
<cjohnston> chrisjohnston
<nigel_nb> dvz-: again the same thing
<cjohnston> ~chrisjohnston
<nigel_nb> dvz-: I believe u slept through mine too...lol
<dvz-> nigel_nb: hrm?
<Silver_Fox_> Next up is ikt
<dvz-> nigel_nb: lmao...ya
<duanedesign> love the pics from Florida Team Birthday Bash / Karmic Release Party, looks fun.
<Silver_Fox_> Who doesn't appear to be here.
<cjohnston> paultag: whats my record? :-x
<nhandler> And forestpiskie isn't here either
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  any last minute things to add by anyone?
<paultag> cjohnston, your wiki is better then most, that's enough to get away with it :)
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: Should we hold off on voting?
<paultag> Oh shoot, me Silver_Fox_
<cjohnston> lol.. thanks.. i guess
<paultag> Silver_Fox_, UFBT reunion, nhandler, POKE ;)
<nigel_nb> cjohnston: since you strong-armed quite a lot of people ;)
<nhandler> Ah yes
<Silver_Fox_> I would nhandler ,  neither ikt nor forest are here
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: o/
<cjohnston> nigel_nb: lol
<Silver_Fox_> Go paultag
<Silver_Fox_> You have 1 minute
<paultag> nhandler, you had the original idea -- hit it up
<Silver_Fox_> Short and sweet :)
<paultag> nhandler, I'll back up where I know :)
<nhandler> The idea is to organize an online reunion of some of the older UFBT members (from back when we were the UFBT)
<nhandler> We have started putting together a list of people to hunt down
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/UFBTReunion2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/UFBTReunion2010
<dvz-> nhandler: we're not UFBT anymore?
<dvz-> since when?
<dvz-> O.O
<paultag> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/UFBTReunion2010
<paultag> doh, too late :)
<Silver_Fox_> Since a long time.
<lukjadOO7> dvz-: LOL
<duanedesign> what are we doing?
<duanedesign> oops
<Silver_Fox_> Okay I am going to end the meeting.  This can be carried on in #ubuntu-beginners
<paultag> duanedesign, quick, 1-2 hour event where old members come back and hang out :)
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: Why? Nobody is after us
<nigel_nb> isnt ikt around?
<Silver_Fox_> Oh okay then nhandler  :)
<Silver_Fox_> Did't see who's next
<nigel_nb> Silver_Fox_: hold on
<dvz-> man, i remember almost all of them...
<dvz-> i feel old.
<Silver_Fox_> Carry on then
<nhandler> Feel free to add people to the list or add info about people already there
<dvz-> i still miss y_lee in -dev
<paultag> dvz-, +1
<nhandler> You can also sign up to contact and hunt down people on the list
<Silver_Fox_> Though I would like to end the meeting in next 10 minutes as it quite early here
<nigel_nb> Silver_Fox_: ikt is here
<nhandler> np Silver_Fox_
<Silver_Fox_> Hey ikt
<ikt> hello all :)
<nhandler> ikt: Do you have a link to your wiki?
<cjohnston> ikt: !
<starcraftman> lo ikt, just in time.
<ikt> yeah: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ikt
<Silver_Fox_> I would like to vote on ikt right now :)
<nhandler> ikt: And could you tell us a bit about yourself and your involvement with the BT ?
<paultag> Hold on Silver_Fox_
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ikt
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ikt
<Silver_Fox_> Thanks nhandler ,  I was just doing that :)
<paultag> ikt, do you have your UF link?
<ikt> yeah, without going into to much detail, 23 years old, heavily involved with computers and ubuntu
<paultag> ikt, you mention being active in the ABT
<cjohnston> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=362528 <--forums
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=362528 <--forums
<cjohnston> for itk
<cjohnston> ikt:
<paultag> ty cjohnston
<ikt> yeah paultag, visit abt daily looking for 0 reply posts
<nhandler> ikt: What have you done with the BT so far?
<paultag> ikt, how long have you been active in the community for?
<ikt> I believe it was in early 2009 that I started really getting into things
<paultag> cool :)
<dvz-> ikt, what's your favorite built in python function? :-)
<paultag> I'm all set
<paultag> oh wait, one more :)
<cjohnston> lol
<paultag> ikt, what's the airspeed of a swallow?
<paultag> unladen
<lukjadOO7> paultag I was gonna say...
<dvz-> lol..me too paultag ..you're slippin
<swoody> airspeed velocity*
<ikt> :P
<dvz-> ikt those weren't rhetorical questions either :D
<Silver_Fox_> Oh ikt  doesn't know... lets vote then :)
<paultag> :(
<Silver_Fox_> [VOTE] ikt for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ikt for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<lukjadOO7> For not knowing, -100000000000000000
<paultag> +1
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<lukjadOO7> +1
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjadOO7. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> Private abstention received. 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Count is now 6
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> Private abstention received. 7 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Count is now 7
<Silver_Fox_> Anymore votes?
<starcraftman> can't be that bad, he's got me friended on forums :)
<nigel_nb> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nigel_nb. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
<Silver_Fox_> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 8
<swoody> woot!!! Grats ikt :D
<ikt> wooooot :)
<Silver_Fox_> [AGREED]  Ikt is in and should watch Holy Grail
<paultag> grats ikt :)
<duanedesign> yeah ikt \o/
<lukjadOO7> Anymore, or are we done?
<MootBot> AGREED received:   Ikt is in and should watch Holy Grail
<cjohnston> wtf
<paultag> Silver_Fox_, :)
<paultag> +1
<nigel_nb> I think we're done
<Silver_Fox_> :)
<cjohnston> sorry.. wtg
<ikt> ty all :)
<Silver_Fox_> I think we are done :)
<nhandler> ikt: Do you have a link to your LP profile?
<swoody> cjohnston, lol
<Silver_Fox_> Well done ikt
<lukjadOO7> Congrats ikt and cjohnston
<cjohnston> ty
 * canthus13 should rip holy grail and watch it again.
<ikt> https://launchpad.net/~noname420
<duanedesign> http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/
<Silver_Fox_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:08.
<Silver_Fox_> Thank you everyone.
<paultag> Later, gaters :)
<nigel_nb> Silver_Fox_: end meeting?
<nigel_nb> ah :)
<ttx> o/
<sommer> yo
 * stgraber waves
<erichammond> 'lo
 * soren waves
 * jjohansen here
<mjeanson> hi
<jiboumans> o/
<zul> morning
<kirkland_> o/
<mathiaz> i/
<jiboumans> smoser: morning ;)
<kirkland_> mathiaz: did a witchdoctor shrink your head?
<soren> I hate that.
<nijaba`> o/
<smoser> hola
<jiboumans> alright, let's get going
<mathiaz> kirkland_: :) - you don't wanna know
<jiboumans> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is jiboumans.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Previous actions points
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous actions points
<zul> mathiaz: lay off the alcohol
<jiboumans> only one outstanding, one me to check with the foundations team what to do with ecryptfs.
 * ivoks o/
<jiboumans> looks like we'll be moving maintenance to the foundations team, but it's pending an OK from colin & hugh. more next week probably
<jiboumans> now, to the more interesting bits:
<alexm> o/
<kirkland_> jiboumans: thx
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Non-alpha2 targeted specs for lucid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Non-alpha2 targeted specs for lucid
<jiboumans> we have a list of 6'ish specs we'd like to dicuss here today. if all is well, ttx mailed the relevant drafters/assignees
<jiboumans> i saw mathiaz here, so let's start there:
<jiboumans> server-lucid-aws-client-libraries (mathiaz)
<jiboumans> mathiaz: to get the ball rolling on this, what do you need from us and the community?
<mathiaz> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-aws-client-libraries
<mathiaz> jiboumans: decide which libraries are worth packaging
<mathiaz> jiboumans: ie which ones are the most used
<mathiaz> jiboumans: and if there is anything missing
<mathiaz> jiboumans: next step: send an email to ubuntu-cloud@, ubuntu-ec2@ and blog about it
<jiboumans> mathiaz: fair enough. Looks like we have the following languages we're looking to target: Python Perl Php Java Ruby Twisted
<mathiaz> jiboumans: well - the first two WI
<jiboumans> do we have any resident experts on any of those languages?
<erichammond> Perl here
<jiboumans> jiboumans: perl
<jiboumans> erichammond: are you ok with us sharing the action to fill in that list?
<mathiaz> both perl and python seems covered
<mathiaz> only java is missing
<jiboumans> mathiaz: php/ruby?
<mathiaz> which is the other langage that has projects listed
 * nijaba` can volunteer some php testing
<erichammond> jiboumans: I'm ok with you doing it all :) but can help where needed.  I just added a link to Amazon's Amazon::SimpleDB
 * zul thinks php is evil
<zul> and ruby
<jiboumans> erichammond: fair enough, won't take me long anyway
 * nijaba` is evil anyway :P
<mathiaz> jiboumans: I don't know if there any projects written in these langages
<mathiaz> jiboumans: more invesitigation is needed
<jiboumans> [ACTION] jib to complete Perl list for AWS client libs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jib to complete Perl list for AWS client libs
<jiboumans> [ACTION] nijaba to complete PHP list for AWS client libs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to complete PHP list for AWS client libs
<jiboumans> mathiaz: cool, then you get to mail people about that :)
<jiboumans> [ACTION] Mathiaz to send out AWS Client lib RFC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Mathiaz to send out AWS Client lib RFC
<jiboumans> mathiaz: think we can have that list complete by next meeting?
<mathiaz> jiboumans: sure
<jiboumans> cool. bonus points if we can get community packaging efforts going *hint hint* ;)
<jiboumans> mathiaz: anything else for this spec?
<ttx> jiboumans: let's harness our huge java packaging community :)
<mathiaz> jiboumans: not for now
<jiboumans> ttx: well volunteered!
<jiboumans> ok, moving on
<jiboumans> daviey, dufet: o/
<ivoks> ]
<ttx> dyfet ^
<jiboumans> dyfet also
<erichammond> jiboumans: There is a *different* Amazon::SimpleDB on CPAN which is not high quality, not maintained, and the author did not respond to my questions about its status.  My ideal solution would be for Amazon's package to be renamed to Net::Amazon::SimpleDB and added to CPAN and then libnet-amazon-simpledb in Ubuntu.
<jiboumans> erichammond: ack
<jiboumans> kirkland: don't miss that in the summary please ^
<jiboumans> ok, both not around yet, trying again in am inute
<kirkland_> jiboumans: got it!
<jiboumans> ivoks, roaksoax: server-lucid-cluster-stack
<ivoks> i'm here
<ivoks> i've packaged most of the relveant stuff for pacemaker based cluster
<ivoks> everything is on my PPA (https://edge.launchpad.net/~ivoks/+archive/ppa/+packages)
<jiboumans> cool. are you targeting anything else for lucid as part of that spec?
<ivoks> so, i'll be testing latest version of pacemaker during this week and give a proposal on which cluster stack to use in lucid, stay with rhcs or move to pacemaker
<mathiaz> ivoks: what are the consequence for redhat-cluster-suite?
<mathiaz> ivoks: It's related to the demotion of redhat-cluster-suite to universe
<ivoks> mathiaz: if pacemaker ends up good, i'd agree with rhcs dmotion
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok
<ivoks> but if pacemaker isn't there yet, i don't think we should ship lts without cluster solution
<mathiaz> ivoks: I'd suggest to do a call for testing via a blog post to get more feedback on pacemaker
<mathiaz> ivoks: and your ppa packages
<ivoks> that's the plan, right
<ttx> ivoks: s/without/waithout a supported/ ?
<ivoks> ttx: right
<ivoks> sorry for not doing this sooner, i had very little time :(
<jiboumans> ivoks: i'm keen to track this spec as we do with our other blueprints. could you list the TODOs for lucid in the blueprint as described here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
<ivoks> jiboumans: consider it done
<jiboumans> ivoks++ thanks
<ivoks> (i've seen your comment)
<jiboumans> ivoks: i'm particularly interested in the items that need to be done for alpha3 obviously
<jiboumans> ivoks, anyone else: anything more on this spec?
<ivoks> when is alpha3?
<jiboumans> ivoks: 25th of feb
<soren> Feb 25th.
<jiboumans> ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule # for the full list
<mathiaz> ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<ivoks> packages and testing should be done, and we should have clear vision what should be supported cluster
<ivoks> (i'm on GPRS connection, so i might be lagged)
<jiboumans> ivoks: awesome. anyone have somethign to add still?
<nijaba`> ivoks: or http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/UbuntuReleaseSchedule.ics
<jiboumans> ok, moving on: lucid-serverguide (sommer)
<jiboumans> sommer: i realise this is a docs project, but i'm sure we can make your life easier somehow
<sommer> heh, that'd be great... I haven't had much time recently to work on the serverguide, but there have been some bug fixes committed
<sommer> should have more time in the coming weeks as well
<nijaba`> sommer: you did see that www.ubuntu.com/server/doc now works, right?
<sommer> yep, good stuff :)
<nijaba`> sommer: do you need with the wiki linking we talked about?
<nijaba`> s/need/need help/
<sommer> I think I should be able to handle that... it's at the top of my list, but if you'd like to setup some of the pages that'd be great too
<jiboumans> [ACTION] ivoks to update server-lucid-cluster-stack with lucid (and alpha3) goals
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to update server-lucid-cluster-stack with lucid (and alpha3) goals
<jiboumans> (before i forget)
<nijaba`> sommer: ok, let's talk about it off meeting
<jiboumans> sommer: would it be helpful to have a weekly agenda point in this meeting for us to give updates on big changes and/or for you to ask questions?
<sommer> nijaba`: sounds good
<sommer> jiboumans: possibly, but the last couple of meetings I've had to duck out early
<jiboumans> sommer: we can move the topic forward if that's useful to you
<jiboumans> we're here all week^Whour
<sommer> I think I can keep up... just need to ask more questions when I fall behind
<jiboumans> sommer: ok. if you change yoru mind, i'm happy to give it a dedicated slot. we really appreciate the work that goes into this doc and want to make it as painless as possible
<jiboumans> anything else for the docs blueprint?
<sommer> jiboumans: sounds great much thanks
<jiboumans> sommer: np
<jiboumans> alright, moving on:
<jiboumans> soren, jdstrand, stgraber: server-lucid-contextualization
<jiboumans> stgraber: it's currently not milestoned; are you still dedicated to getting this in for lucid?
<stgraber> yep
<jiboumans> great. what is left for you to do when soren/jdstrand finish there bugs/items?
<stgraber> I'm sorry, I'm on the phone at the same time
<jiboumans> stgraber: no worries, should we do papercuts first?
<stgraber> just finished my call
<stgraber> so, I have on my todolist to check the state of current libvirt in Lucid + the lxc tool
<stgraber> I contacted the Debian maintainer for the lxc userspace and he told me he was going to update it to current upstream
<soren> I remember there were some issues with upstart and containers.
<stgraber> once it's done, I'll get that synced in Lucid and will try to get a MIR on that
<jiboumans> stgraber: does that sound realistic before alpha3?
<jiboumans> (feb 25th)
<stgraber> yes, upstart, especially umount can cause some issues with containers. Last time I tried Lucid containers worked correctly at least
<stgraber> otherwise, I'm getting quite familiar with mountall due to LTSP bugs I'm helping debug from time to time, so it shouldn't be that hard to make it work properly
<stgraber> jiboumans: updated userspace + tested libvirt by then sounds perfectly realisitc
<stgraber> *realistic
<soren> stgraber: I thought the problems were more fundamental than that.
<soren> stgraber: Such as upstart not dealing very well at all with not properly being pid 1.
<jiboumans> stgraber: we'd also need to have the package in main by then, if i'm getting alpha3's milestone right (ttx, correct me if i'm wrong)
<stgraber> soren: at least on OpenVZ I can start a Lucid container including upstart
<soren> (as in, it did not inherit orphan processes inside containers)
<stgraber> soren: it's PID 1 (inside the container), it's not when seen from the host
<soren> stgraber: Precisely.
<ttx> jiboumans: before featurefreeze, to be precise.
<stgraber> jiboumans: I can file a MIR for it
<Daviey> \o
<stgraber> jiboumans: only depends for it is libc6
<Daviey> apologies for being late, for some reason i thought it started in 30 mins
<jiboumans> Daviey: asterisk next, stay tuned :)
<stgraber> upstream is active, it's maintained in Debian and there's no known security issues, so it's going to be an easy one
<jmdault> hello Daviey
<Daviey> \o jmdault
<jiboumans> stgraber: if you feel you can get all that done for alpha3, that'll be great
<jiboumans> stgraber, soren, jdstrand, ttx: anything else that may be a redflag?
<jdstrand> the one task I had is completed
<soren> jiboumans: Not at the moment.
<stgraber> jiboumans: I'll get that to a point where we can focus on bugfix after alpha3. So that probably won't be bugfree but at least all pieces will be there.
<jiboumans> stgraber: that's perfect
<jdstrand> I might mention, it would be nice to get libvirt 0.7.5 in for lucid
<stgraber> jiboumans: +1
<kirkland> jdstrand: are you planning to do that merge?
<stgraber> jdstrand: +1 I mean ;)
<jdstrand> there is an issue there cause Debian decided to run libvirt as non-root using upstream's new methods
<jiboumans> stgraber: could i ask you to update the blueprint to reflect the work items we just discussed? (upstreams, tests, mir, etc)
<stgraber> jiboumans: sure
<jdstrand> how they implemented that is a) contentious and b) will likely require a *lot* of testing to make sure it doesn't break
<ttx> jiboumans: looks good to me, pending the work items list
<jiboumans> [ACTION] stgraber to update work item list for server-lucid-contextualization with alpha3 items
<MootBot> ACTION received:  stgraber to update work item list for server-lucid-contextualization with alpha3 items
<jdstrand> I was thinking I would do that merge, but disable that feature, since we have apparmor protections anyway, but it probably needs further discussion
<jdstrand> I don't really have the resources to test it without disabling the feature
<jiboumans> jdstrand: would that be part of this spec, or merely related?
<jdstrand> jiboumans: I think related, unless stgraber really needs 0.7.5
<jdstrand> and the non-root stuff is definitely non-lxc
<jdstrand> it just complicates the merge and testing (eg what will happen to euca if libvirt is non-root?)
<jdstrand> err... libvirt runs VMs as non-root
<jdstrand> I don't have an answer to that question, or the resources to verify it all will work
<stgraber> jdstrand: I had lxc to work with 0.7.2 though there was quite a lot of improvement in 0.7.4 (nothing in 0.7.5 itself though)
<jiboumans> soren, ttx: opinions welcome here
<kirkland> jdstrand: i like the idea of using your apparmor stuff, and running libvirt as root (as upstream upstream does)
<kirkland> jdstrand: for Lucid, at least
<soren> jdstrand: How does what Debian does differ from what Fedora does?
<jdstrand> kirkland: that was my thought too-- we are protected, and I will be doing more work on the security driver anyway
<kirkland> jdstrand: +1
<jdstrand> soren: I don't know, but I imagine fedora will be moving to non-root
<jdstrand> when, I can't say
<soren> jdstrand: AFAIK, they've already done that.
<kirkland> jdstrand: on a related note, i'm working on the qemu-kvm-0.12 merge, to be done shortly after Alpha2
<ttx> I'd go for 0.7.5 with apparmor as well, lucid is no place to get experimental
<jdstrand> soren: what are your thoughts on the non-root stuff?
<soren> 19:08 < danpb> unit3: yeah, but in Fedora,  the qemu process itself runs  as 'qemu' these days
<soren> From #virt yesterday.
<jdstrand> I'd like to be clear-- the apparmor driver would be there regardless, it is whether or not to risk the non-root bits too
<jiboumans> ttx: agreed. the question is 'keep the current version or 0.7.5+apparmor' -- no other configuration is safe enough i think
<jdstrand> the apparmor driver is upstreamed and in 0.7.5, and works fine
<soren> The problem is we might end up running libvirt in a way noone else is running it.
<ttx> slightly more costly (debian delta) to go 0.7.5+apparmor, but I guess lots of bugfixes
<soren> ...which is simply a /different/ kind of maintenance nightmare.
<jiboumans> ok, then let me rephrase: what do we loes by staying with current version?
<jdstrand> soren: well, we are already in that boat with enabling the apparmor driver
<soren> jdstrand: True.
<jdstrand> (I also field those bugs, btw)
<ttx> jiboumans: stgraber might hate you
<jdstrand> (as upstream and in ubuntu)
<soren> jdstrand: The point of contention is the fiddling with device permissions and all that jazz, right?
<ttx> jiboumans: + number? of high-impact bugs fixed between 0.7.2 and 0.7.5
<jdstrand> soren: yes. it generally seems not the right thing to do, and most people I've talked to aren't keen on it
<soren> jdstrand: Yeah, I absolutely hate it.
<jdstrand> though, I've not talked to that terribly many people
<ttx> jiboumans: bugs that you wouldn't want to ship an LTS with
<soren> jdstrand: I don't predict it's going to be a lasting approach.
<stgraber> ttx: +1 (except that I won't hate him, just will file a lot of bugs for you guys to fix ;))
<soren> jdstrand: I'm cool with sticking with running kvm as root.
<jiboumans> ttx: that makes 0.7.5+apparmor a desired target then
<jdstrand> soren: well, it is easy enough to run it like it has always been run (ie as root), using the apparmor driver
<soren> jdstrand: It's really much more sensible than the current alternative.
<ttx> jiboumans: I don't know how much of our long libvirt list of bugs 0.7.5 fixed
<jiboumans> ttx: ok fearless techlead, propose a plan :)
<jdstrand> in that case, I will do the 0.7.5, and leave out the non-root bits. if someone else wants to flip that on later, they can do that
<soren> jdstrand: Sounds good to me.
<jdstrand> s/0.7.5/0.7.5 merge/
<ttx> jiboumans: knowing that unknown would help choosing the right solution
<ttx> jiboumans: my plan would be to follow the fearless jdstrand
<soren> oh.
<jdstrand> and I want it clear-- please don't disable the apparmor driver if testing non-root-- we still want it for guest isolation and host protection
<soren> Er... I would not even consider sticking with 0.7.2.
<jiboumans> ttx: fair enough
<ttx> soren: thanks for your support
<soren> I completely missed that suggestion.
<jdstrand> it runs as non-root in Debian, but all as the same user (ie no guest isolation)
<ttx> soren: <jiboumans> ok, then let me rephrase: what do we loes by staying with current version?
<jdstrand> plus, I'd hate for a rogue guest to have even non-root privs on my host machine
<jiboumans> jdstrand: where can we see the progress on this? i'm expecting this to impact UEC as well after all
<soren> Sticking with old, unsupported versions of core virtualisation stuff is no fun at all (*cough* kvm-62 in hardy *cough*).
<jdstrand> jiboumans: 0.7.5 is still in unstable and not migrated to testing
<jdstrand> jiboumans: so sometime after that, plus there is a blueprint for the apparmor/libvirt dev work I am doing
<soren> jdstrand: There's plenty of precendence for being ahead of Debian testing in Ubuntu for libvirt. Even ahead of Debian experimental at times.
 * jdstrand goes to get it
<soren> And precedence.
<jdstrand> jiboumans: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-lucid-libvirt-apparmor-devel
<jdstrand> I'll add a new item for 0.7.5
<jiboumans> jdstrand: thanks. kirkland/ttx this will affect you for UEC. please keep an eye on it and stay in touch with jdstrand
<kirkland> jiboumans: sure thing
<ttx> ack
<jiboumans> stgraber, soren, jdstrand: anything more on the containers spec?
<soren> Not at the moment.
<stgraber> not from me, I updated the blueprint with the new items for alpha-3
<jiboumans> stgraber++ thanks
<jiboumans> ok, next topic: server-lucid-asterisk-integration (dyfet, Daviey)
<jmdault> and jmdault ...
<jmdault> ;-)
<dyfet> yes
<jiboumans> jmdault: appologies :)
<jiboumans> first order of business: who's the contact for this spec?
<Daviey> \i
<jiboumans> or drafter? or the person i'll be gently but firmly shaking in this meeting?
<jmdault> jiboumans: you can shake me
<dyfet> lol
<jiboumans> jmdault: thanks for volunteering :)
<dyfet> That works for me also!
<jmdault> good
<jiboumans> jmdault: this spec has been lingering a bit; are you still commited to this for lucid?
<jmdault> jiboumans: yes, definitely
<Daviey> I'm very keen to try and keep the packages from Debian as pristine as possible, and work with Debian's pkg-voip closer.
<dyfet> I concur
<jiboumans> excellent. You've all been doing this for a while, so you know what parts need to be done by alpha3
<jmdault> me too
<zul> are you guys looking to get asterisk in main?
<jmdault> Asterisk 1.6.2 is officially released now
<jiboumans> could i ask you to update the spec accordingly and prefix the people doing the tasks so pitti's magic tool picks it up?
<jmdault> zul: not sure about main... we need to handle security updates, and that's gonna be a lot of work
<jiboumans> mathiaz: wasn't asterisk on your promotion/demotion list?
<Daviey> zul: not at present.
<mathiaz> jiboumans: nope
<mathiaz> jiboumans: I don't think so
<jiboumans> mathiaz: ok, i probably misremembered then :)
<zul> jiboumans: it was on my list but it got rejected
<mathiaz> jiboumans: mainly for security reasons - jdstrand ^^?
<zul> security reasons and lack of hardware for testing
<Daviey> it did have a MIR
<jiboumans> [ACTION] jmdault to update server-lucid-asterisk-integration blueprint with alpha3 & post-alpha3 workitems and change syntax to match Pitti's workitems howto (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jmdault to update server-lucid-asterisk-integration blueprint with alpha3 & post-alpha3 workitems and change syntax to match Pitti's workitems howto (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto)
<jmdault> Daviey: I don't see you're subscribed to ubuntu-voip mailing list?
<jmdault> we need some communication
<Daviey> jmdault: i should be!  I set it up
<Daviey> jmdault: there is now #ubuntu-voip, and i somehow feel real time communication might help.
<jiboumans> ok, i think we're aligned on the work that needs to be done. ttx: any concerns on this one?
<zul> you should use asterisk to talk to each other :)
<erichammond> Tangentially related: I built custom, private Karmic AMIs for a client who is running Asterisk on EC2.  He has timing problems with the 2.6.27 kernel and we are hoping that the 2.6.31 kernel will work better.  The kernel team has offered to build 250Hz and 1000Hz EC2 kernels for testing if the default 100Hz still doesn't work under Karmic with 2.6.31.
<jiboumans> zul++ # +7 smartypants points
<jdstrand> the security issues regarding asterisk are that there are many vulnerabilities
<ttx> jiboumans: not at this point
<Daviey> erichammond: erichammond Xen and asterisk have never played well.
<jiboumans> alright, anything more on the asterisk spec?
<jdstrand> there hasn't been a community around asterisk to fix what we have in Ubuntu now
<Daviey> i built different kernels with different clock speeds and it did *help*, but not perfect.
<smoser> erichammond, we've not heard back on that ?
<erichammond> Davley: People are running Asterisk well under EC2 with an old 1000Hz kernel.
<smoser> iirc that was some end of november-ish, right?
<jdstrand> adding asterisk as a supported package is not recommended-- but this was all discussed at UDS, is this up for discussion again?
<jiboumans> jdstrand: nope
<erichammond> smoser: The Karmic AMIs just got built as it took me a while to sort out all the vmbuilder issues.
<jiboumans> gents, i'm going to have to ask you to take this to #ubuntu-voip :)
<jmdault> yes, come to #ubuntu-voip
<smoser> oh. sorry. not meaning to call you out :)
<jmdault> we need some traffic
<dyfet> yep
<jiboumans> our agenda is rather full and we have to move on i'm afraid
<jiboumans> so, next topic: server-lucid-papercuts (ttx)
<smoser> thought we were just waiting for someone else to test.
<ttx> ok, so this is the spec following the UDS discussion we had on Server usability papercuts
<ttx> To be successful, it needs to be a global effort shared between all Ubuntu Server team members
<ttx> That's why I wanted to discuss the details of the project implementation before going forward
<ttx> (not sure there is enough time in this meeting to do so, stop me if needed)
<ttx> The blueprint whiteboards shows several subjects that we could discuss in January team meetings
<ttx> Starting today with discussing the best way to nominate a bug as a papercut
<ttx> jiboumans: want to move that to next week ?
<jiboumans> ttx: given the time constraints and us being behind on some alpha2 work, yeah
<jiboumans> ttx: i'd urge everyone to give this some thought though (perhaps you can send a mail to that extent) so we're prepared next week
<ttx> ok. Let's discuss papercut nomination mechanism next week then
<ttx> action me on that
<jiboumans> [ACTION] ttx to send background mail on papercuts project for next weeks discussion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to send background mail on papercuts project for next weeks discussion
<jiboumans> see how fast i type? :)
<ttx> we share a common brain
<zul> thats scarey
<jiboumans> 2 men 1 brain... sounds like a bad internet movie
<jiboumans> ok, next:
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] blueprint status check
<MootBot> New Topic:  blueprint status check
<jiboumans> most seem well on track, so slightly different format:
<jiboumans> i'd liek to discuss 3 in particular, and then a quick round table
<jiboumans> mathiaz: server-lucid-uec-testing	12/0/13 52%
<jiboumans> are we still on track for alpha2? halfway complete dwith a few days development time left
<mathiaz> jiboumans: on track IMO
<mathiaz> jiboumans: three items are about alpha2 testing
<mathiaz> jiboumans: two others are to talk with upstream
<jiboumans> mathiaz: if you are confident, so am i.
<mathiaz> jiboumans: and the last ones require a bit more hardware for testing
<jiboumans> mathiaz: IS assured me we can get the hardware at alpha2. you & ttx need to look over the details though (see the rt mail that landed in yoru box today)
<jiboumans> ttx: any opinions on taht yet? i saw cjwatson gave some tips
<ttx> jiboumans: that sounds very promising
<mathiaz> jiboumans: ok
<ttx> jiboumans: I'm glued into an upstart issue, it's next on my totest list
<mathiaz> jiboumans: I need to catch up on the RT thread (I don't receive all the emails of it apparently)
<ttx> jiboumans: I'd revert my opinion now to "probably not needed anymore"
<mathiaz> jiboumans: I know how to automate iso testing though
<ttx> mathiaz: talk to you about it later today
<mathiaz> ttx: ok
<jiboumans> ttx, mathiaz: stick your heads together and make a call :)
<jiboumans> next spec:there's also this spec: server-lucid-ec2-config 8/0/2 20%
<jiboumans> zul, mathiaz: most of the work rests with you guys now and i know you've taken it over recently
<mathiaz> jiboumans: you == zul^^ ?
<zul> jiboumans: i showed smoser my first cut yesterday i think im on track https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/ec2-init/ec2-init-config
<smoser> i think he's on track.
<jiboumans> mathiaz: you have the parser writing on your plate: [mathiaz] write initial config parser : TODO
<jiboumans> zul's doing the actual configs
<mathiaz> jiboumans: hm - well - there isn't any parser to be written :)
<mathiaz> jiboumans: the configuration file is in yaml
<smoser> hopefully be tomorrow morning US/Eastern or end of day tomorrow we can have a combined branch with at least packaging
<jiboumans> where's the code that grabs the file & DTRT?
<mathiaz> jiboumans: boothooks
<jiboumans> or is that *all* boothooks?
<smoser> DTRT?
<jiboumans> 'does the right thing'
 * jiboumans hands smoser the interwebz
<mathiaz> jiboumans: right - boothooks grabs the user-data, locally copies the yaml configuration and then fires an cloud-config upstart event
<smoser> ah. that is boothooks
<smoser> bah to you and your lmgtfy, jiboumans :)
<jiboumans> ok, fair enough. mathiaz could you update the blueprint then please/ :)
<mathiaz> jiboumans: relevant upstart jobs start on cloud-config and do whatever they want with the configuration file
<smoser> so boot hooks gets user data, rips out user config, puts that in a file and emits an upstart job with CFG_FILE=path-to-that-file
<jiboumans> is there no mileage in ever running this outside upstart?
<smoser> well, it could. the upstart job just runs something else.
<smoser> that something else coudl be run just as easily at other times.
<smoser> but for now i think we're interested in at early-cloud-boot
<jiboumans> smoser: i'll leave that for a design decision then while you're writing the code :)
<smoser> yeah.
<smoser> we ready to move to that blueprint then :)
<jiboumans> server-lucid-ec2-boothooks	10/0/3	23%	High
<jiboumans> smoser: are you still on the EC2 image issue, or moved to this spec now?
<smoser> i am actually feeling much more confident of it now than i was before.
<smoser> the ec2 image issue has been identified. bug 503212
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503212 in mountall "mountall crashed with SIGSEGV in main() without initramfs" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503212
<smoser> short summary, mountall doesn't work without a ramdisk, our ec2-images dont have ramdisks.
<jiboumans> smoser: that sounds like cloud-krd is stalled pending that bug, correct?
<smoser> well, yeah, but i have to assume that it will  be fixed. i sent mail to Keybuk, but i think he must  be out atm
<jiboumans> fair enough. so, boothooks... on track now?
<smoser> basically cloud-krd is done.  everything is functional (or at least *was* functional) in ec2
<smoser> much closer to on track.  i do feel more confident now
<jiboumans> smoser: please stay in touch wtih ttx about this
<jiboumans> anything to add to this spec?
<smoser> no. thanks to everyone who has helped and offered to help, though
<jiboumans> excellent
<jiboumans> everyone++ indeed
<jiboumans> quick round table:
<jiboumans> kirkland: any blockers or risks for your blueprints regarding alpha2?
<kirkland> jiboumans: i don't think so
<jiboumans> mathiaz: same question ^
<mathiaz> jiboumans: I don't think so
<jiboumans> smoser: i think we covered yours, right?
<smoser> y
<jiboumans> ttx: ^
<ttx> jiboumans: I don't think so
<smoser> y as in yes
<jiboumans> zul: ^
<zul> jiboumans: MIR team taking the time to review the MIR reports
<jiboumans> zul: when do we need to have those back by?
<zul> jiboumans: soon ill bug kees again today, i havent been able to talk to doko yet
<jiboumans> zul: ok, flag it with me if you dont have an answer by thursday end of business
<zul> ok
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<jiboumans> remind me who runs through this again usually :)
<zul> ttx
<ttx> zul: doh
 * jiboumans watches the very slick push-infront-of-the-train action
<ttx> Anyone has anything blocking to report ?
<zul> nope
<mathiaz> zope
<ttx> Dustin, Chuck: all bugs assigned to you represent current or near-future work ?
<kirkland> ttx: erg, yeah, near-ish future
<zul> yeah near-ish future
<kirkland> ttx: there's a few i'm on the *tip* of solving, uploading
<ttx> ok
<ttx> jiboumans: done
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] weekly Q&A with QA
<MootBot> New Topic:  weekly Q&A with QA
<jiboumans> *badumtish*
<jiboumans> soren?
<soren> Hahah.
<soren> Uh, yeah.
<soren> Since last time, I've set up nightly rebuilds of a set of server packages.
<soren> These are packages that already have test suites run at build time, but since stuff in their dependency tree might cause breakage, we need to run them periodically to detect regressions.
<soren> ..so every night, I grab the current version of these packages and push them to a ppa.
<soren> If they fail to build, I get an e-mail.
<soren> Ideally, I would set something up to turn those e-mails into bug reports, but that's work to be done.
<zul> is it possible to get a broader range of people to email?
<soren> The current list of packages is:
<soren> libvirt
<soren> postgresql-8.3
<soren> postgresql-8.4
<soren> mysql-dfsg-5.0
<soren> mysql-dfsg-5.1
<soren> openldap
<soren> php5
<mathiaz> soren: using a team PPA so that others can get the emails as well if wanted?
<soren> I'm sure I've missed some, so if you guys can think of anything server related that takes care to run its test suite at build time (and fails if the test suite fails), please let me know.
<mathiaz> soren: there is dovecot
<mathiaz> soren: it has a test suite, but not in the package
<mathiaz> soren: it's in a different upstream hg repository
<jiboumans> btw, this is the related spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-lucid-automated-server-testing
<zul> apache has an external testsuite but you have to fiddle with the package
<soren> mathiaz: Right, so it doesn't really apply here.
<mathiaz> soren: upstream dovecot wiki has an explanation
<soren> Those are separate work items.
<soren> mathiaz: Yes, I've seen it.
<mathiaz> soren: right
<jiboumans> alright, sounds like a good action point
<soren> I intend to package it at some point and get it to run periodically.
<soren> ...I just haven't gotten round to that yet.
<kirkland> soren: i should have a qemu-kvm-0.12 merge ready soon ... any chance there will be a testing ringer i can put it through before unleashing it on people?
<jiboumans> [ACTION] Soren to sollicit packages that lend them selves well to nightly builds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Soren to sollicit packages that lend them selves well to nightly builds
<soren> kirkland: We could, but I don't think my current set of tests that use kvm will exercise it much more than what you get to do on a daily basis of just using it normally.
<kirkland> soren: gotcha
<jiboumans> soren: anything else to report from QA?
<soren> I'm happy to test it in my daily work, though.
<soren> jiboumans: Not at the moment, no. I expect to have a bunch of stuff for next week (a lot of my stuff is targeted for alpha-2).
<jiboumans> soren: we look forward to next weeks update then
<jiboumans> any questions for soren/QA?
<mathiaz> soren: what's the status of the Server QA position?
<soren> mathiaz: I don't know if I have the full picture, but as far as I know, there's no-one in the pipeline right now, so it'll probably be a while.
<soren> But like in every other context, I somehow always manage to be the last person to know anything :)
<zul> no that would be me ;)
<soren> See? I didn't even know that.
<jiboumans> cute :) any other questions?
<erichammond> I don't use the new us-west-1 region in EC2 much yet, but bug 494185 makes the official Ubuntu AMIs broken there, and users have complained.  This seems like a pretty high priority to me.  It could either be fixed by publishing updated AMIs (bug 503649) or by having IT modify the firewall on the us-east-1 apt mirror to allow external access in the short term (very low cost).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494185 in ec2-init "ec2-init selects us-east-1 mirror when running in us-west-1 region" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503649 in ubuntu "Release updated official Ubuntu EC2 AMIs for Karmic, Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503649
<smoser> i think we shoudl push new images there.
<smoser> that will solve your other bvug, eric, for updated instances of karmic for speed.
<kirkland> jiboumans: one from me ... i uploaded a new merge of euca2ools yesterday, the first sync with upstream since Oct
<kirkland> jiboumans: i'd like to request some testing ;-)
<smoser> i did open a ticket service ticket on ipening up the us-east mirror to outside, but nothing on that.
<kirkland> just in general, from anyone doing UEC/EC2 ish stuff
<jiboumans> this is particularly for the QA team :)
<kirkland> jiboumans: yeah, them too :-)
<jiboumans> soren: can you/QA help with either of those issues?
<soren> Uh..
 * soren seems to be missing something
<jiboumans> 'no' is an acceptable answer :)
<soren> Sorry, how did QA get wound up in this? :)
<jiboumans> right, 'no' it is
<soren> Works for me :)
<jiboumans> [ACTION] smoser to investigate publishing new AMIs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to investigate publishing new AMIs
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Q&A with the kernel team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Q&A with the kernel team (jjohansen)
<jiboumans> jjohansen: so sorry to keep you waiting
<jjohansen> np
<smoser> erichammond, coudl you do me a favor and snif test a recent -testing build ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll test run the latest euca2ools today
<jiboumans> jjohansen: i notice one open work item for you: 	fix kernel configs such that uec requires no ramdisk (bug 494565)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494565 in linux "support ramdiskless boot for relavant kvm drive interfaces in -virtual" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494565
<mathiaz> kirkland: while doing some more UEC testing
<erichammond> smoser: sure thing.
<erichammond> kirkland: Will euca2ools work with my EC2 account that starts with a zero now?
<jjohansen> jiboumans: yeah, I am behind on that one, I am going to see what I can get done on that today and tomorrow
<jiboumans> jjohansen: it's part of the alpha2 target; you see any risk of it not being done by then?
<jjohansen> yeah it is in danger for alpha2 as kernel changes have deadline of friday
<kirkland> erichammond: according to the changelog, yes
<kirkland> erichammond: and commit history
<jiboumans> smoser: what's the impact on cloud-krd if this doesn't happen?
<kirkland> erichammond: it would be great if you could confirm, or reopen that bug if not
<smoser> well, our uec images will just need to have a ramdisk
<smoser> which they do now
<jiboumans> right, so it would spill over to alpha3
<jiboumans> jjohansen: we're still allowed to make changes like this for alpha3, yes?
<smoser> if ever it were fixed i just have put back in a change that removes them (they didn't have a ramdisk for a while)
<jjohansen> jiboumans: yes it should be good, its really just some config changes
<ttx> Two bugs on my plate for the kernel team: bug 499785 and bug 499491. Both are fix committed, what's the ETA for archive ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499785 in linux "nic-usb-modules should include asix" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499785
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499491 in linux "tun module no longer automatically available (was: Euca 1.6.2 fails to boot an instance)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499491
<jiboumans> smoser: ok, keep an eye on this then and adjust the blueprint accordingly please
<jjohansen> ttx: well my guess would be the kernel will be uploaded monday or tuesday
<ttx> jjohansen: ack
<jjohansen> just depending if something critical doesn't make friday
<jiboumans> any other questions for the kernel team?
<jiboumans> jjohansen: anything else we need to be aware of?
<jjohansen> not that I can think of
<jjohansen> wait
<jjohansen> there is an EC2 kernel update coming
<jjohansen> but that should break anything, I point smoser at the test kernels today
<jiboumans> i so hope you meant 'should not' ;)
<jjohansen> yeah :)
<jiboumans> alright, thanks for letting us know ;)
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
<mathiaz> one bug nominated for jaunty
<mathiaz> bug 117736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 117736 in libpam-mount "pam_mount unable to unmount needs root priv" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117736
 * kirkland shudders at pam_mount
<mathiaz> one bug nominated for karmic: bug 379329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379329 in openssh "CVE-2008-5161: OpenSSH CBC plaintext recovery" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379329
<mathiaz> Are these two bus SRU worth?
<ttx> the second one should be handled by security
<ttx> if it's worth it, they will do it
<kirkland> mathiaz: i spent about a week working with the pam_mount source code, when I was doing the Encrypted Private dir stuff way back
<kirkland> mathiaz: it was really bad, and so I wrote pam_ecryptfs instead
<kirkland> mathiaz: i don't know about that bug, but pam_mount is a mess
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - I'll leave bug 379329 alone then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379329 in openssh "CVE-2008-5161: OpenSSH CBC plaintext recovery" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379329
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ^^
<jdstrand> we are aware of the bug
<jdstrand> thanks
<mathiaz> ok - I'll decline bug 117736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 117736 in libpam-mount "pam_mount unable to unmount needs root priv" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117736
<ScottK> Speaking of SRU review, thanks to everyone who helped out on the Spamassassin update over the weekend.
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> two bugs fixed last week ?! ?
<mathiaz> anything worth SRU?
<zul> 478973 maybe...we need to find the patch for it though
<mathiaz> zul: could you nominate/accept the bug then?
<zul> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> zul: ^^ any progress on the bug there?
<zul> no
<ScottK> mathiaz: Why does the spamassassin bug not show up there?
<mathiaz> ScottK: there == which list?
<mathiaz> and that's all for the SRU review
<ScottK> The bugs fixed list.
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  open discussion
<jiboumans> anythign left to be said afte 2 hours? :)
<mathiaz> ScottK: because lp ~ubuntu-server is not a bug contact for spamassassin
 * ttx wakes up
<ScottK> mathiaz: I'd think it should be.
 * kirkland looks forward to writing 2 hours of meeting minutes :-)
 * zul cleans up his eyes
<ttx> jiboumans: please, no
<ScottK> Perl needs merged.
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
<nijaba`> specially since it is in main now; right?
<ScottK> Yep
<ScottK> Probably clamav and amavisd-new too if they aren't
<zul> they are
<nijaba`> double yep
<zul> amavisd-new is at least
<ScottK> Does somebody get an action to fix that?
<nijaba`> mathiaz: ?? ^
<mathiaz> done
<jiboumans> next week; same bat time, same bat channel. hopefully only 1 hour.
<jiboumans> thanks for your patience people
<jiboumans> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:56.
<kirkland> ScottK: looks like it is already https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+packagebugs
<ScottK> kirkland: Then back to the original question, how come the bug wasn't on the list?
<kirkland> ScottK: good q
<ScottK> If I'm going to spend a Sunday getting Spamassassin fixed on 5 releases, I'd like it to at least show up as done
<mathiaz> ScottK: I just added spamassassin and clamav
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ev> hi
 * slangasek waves
<nijaba`> mathiaz: now that we have a script that list le server package in main, could we use it on a regular basis to automatically update lp?
<tremolux> hey folks
<james_w> hi
<barry> howdy
<doko_> hi
<mvo> hi
<ev> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ev.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ev> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<ev> barry: care to start us off?
<barry> sure!  ...
<cjwatson> sorry I'm late, my network has been acting up
<barry> it was a short week because of the holidays.  i fixed bug 494704 and worked on some pycon 2010 stuff.  today i plan on trying my hand at packaging a python module that isn't in uni and catching up with various folks about next steps
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494704 in python-soaplib "Ubuntu Karmic: ImportError: No module named soaplib (after installing python-soaplib)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494704
<barry> eot
<ev> thanks barry
<ev> cjwatson?
<cjwatson> done: good chunk of foundations-lucid-ubiquity-partitioner-optimisation, some tweaks to various packages needed for server eucalyptus work, quite a bit of time off doing chromeos work
<cjwatson> todo: want to try to get foundations-lucid-reliable-device-id-in-grub out of the way now that upstream has fixed it to not really need device.map in most cases
<cjwatson> blocked: foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update relies on DX work that isn't done yet; have discussed with dbarth
<ev> cool, thanks cjwatson
<ev> tremolux?
<tremolux> 'm continuing to do some work on software center
<tremolux> I've uploaded some code and one bug fix that Michael has merged
<tremolux> I'm getting going on bug triage and fixing
<tremolux> Oh, and I've got Lean training in Lexington tomorrow and Fri
<ev> thanks tremolux
<ev> james_w: around?
<james_w> hi
<ev> hello :)
<ev> oh, I missed your wave before
<ev> apologies
<james_w> I've been working on the importer, I tracked down the bug that was killing codehosting, and I'm now getting all the branches back up to date
<slangasek> \o/
<ev> awesome
<ev> thanks
<james_w> todo: the latter of those parts, it's worked through the backlog, but there are a bunch of failures to triage
<ev> whoops, I'm moving a bit too quick
<ev> sorry
<james_w> blocked: nothing. also, I'm out of the country for the next few weeks.
<james_w> so you'll find me at odd hours, so mail may be best to track me down if desired
<james_w> thanks
<ev> thanks james_w
<ev> doko__?
<doko__> done: most gcc-4.4 ARM updates done, minor gdb update, eglibc-2.11 testing and upgrade, gcc-4.5 prepared for testing, some packaging of new upstream versions over the holidys
<doko__> next week: gcc-4.5 testing, openjdk-6 update, prepare JCK testing with sbeattie, outstanding merges
<doko__> blocked: can't think of anything
<ev> doko__: cool, thanks
<ev> mvo: ?
<doko__> stunning silcene?
<ev> :)
<mvo> software-center: subcategory work, ratings&reviews client side work (needs LP server side, but some client side work can already be done)
<mvo> maintaince-timeframe: submited LP soyuz branch for review (spec blocked until that is done)
<mvo> "fun" with nvidia (#494627)
<mvo> glanced over the upgrade tester results at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/ (quite some failures)
<ev> slangasek?
<ev> thanks mvo
<slangasek> working this week on getting our 4th and final hardy point release rolling
<slangasek> be prepared to receive calls for help testing :)
<slangasek> (eot)
<ev> thanks slangasek
<ev> started to land my branches on ubiquity.  Working with the X team to split i18n data out of xkb-data in support of console-setup changes.  Just finished moving from gtkcomboboxes to gtkcomboentrys, to allow for type to select.  Looking into decoupling bulletproofx from gdm.
<ev> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<ev> there weren't any :)
<ev> [TOPIC] milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  milestoned bugs
<ev> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=1326
<ev> whoops, that's quite wrong, isn't it
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone=21444 :)
<ev> thanks
<ev> anyone have any that'd they would like to raise?
<ev> okay, moving on
<ev> [TOPIC] sponsorship queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  sponsorship queue
<ev> I nearly had one, which is horrendous
<ev> I'll add that to the new years resolutions list
<cjwatson> I'll go do some before leaving today, as penance
<ev> :)
<ev> [TOPIC] Any business from activity reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any business from activity reports
<ev> there weren't any items in the emails I received.  Last chance to raise something.
<ev> Please send in your activity report if you haven't already done so
<ev> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<ev> I'm seeing Ubuntu in a lot of pictures coming from CES.
<ev> anyone else?
<ev> right, AOB?
<james_w> nothing from me
<slangasek> nothing here
<mvo> nothing from me
<barry> nope
<ev> okay, thanks everyone
<ev> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:29.
<slangasek> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<james_w> thanks
<ev> oh, damn
<ev> who wants to chair the next meeting?
<ev> I'd assign it to Scott for not showing up, but he's already done it recently.
<james_w> it's all gone strangely silent :-)
<highvoltage> heh
<marjo_> #startmeeting QA Team
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is marjo_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * marjo_ waves
<marjo_> Agenda:
<marjo_>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo_>     * Bugday highlights -- pedro
<marjo_>     *
<marjo_>       Future of Ubuntu QA Launchpad team (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa) -- ara
<marjo_>     * Calls for testing: mailing list or "Contact This Team" -- ara
<soren> o/
<cr3> hi folks
 * fader_ waves.
<pedro_> hola!
<davmor2> hello
<sbeattie> Happy new year, everyone!
<bdmurray> hi
 * charlie-tca seems to have made it, too
<kamusin> hey!
<marjo_> ara is not available, so we'll defer the last two agenda items until next week
<marjo_> Happy New Year to all!
<pedro_> hello charlie-tca! welcome back
<charlie-tca> thanks
<charlie-tca> will try to be around again.
<marjo_> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU activity over the holidays was slow, but before and after was busy...
<sbeattie> SRU Activity Report for the last 3 weeks (since 2009-12-16):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 25 new packages in -proposed, and 27 packages pushed to -updates
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 6 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, postgresql-8.3, xorg-server, osm-gps-map, spamassassin, tzdata) and 5 packages pushed to -updates (openafs, xvidcap, zabbix, spamassassin, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: 5 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, postgresql-8.3, smart, spamassassin, tzdata) and 2 package pushed to -updates (spamassassin, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 3 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.3, spamassassin, tzdata) and 3 packages pushed to -updates (alpine, spamassassin, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 2 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.1, langpack-locales) and 1 package pushed to -updates (langpack-locales)
<sbeattie> Thanks to Mitch Towner, Sennaista, VPablo, Brad Peters, Bernhard Schmidt, Tomasz Czapiewski, Sami Nieminen, Imre Gergely, Ante KaramatiÄ, Jonathan Marsden, Philipp Edelmann, Russell John, Dan McCombs, Thomas Bruckmaier, Drew Fisher, SwÃ¢mi Petaramesh, Tomas RudÃ©n, Sergey Yanovich, Piotr Morgwai Kotarb, Xavier Gnata, Michele Mordenti, Daniel Nurmi, Lamer, and Rainer SchÃ¶pf for testing proposed fixes.
<sbeattie> That's all I've got.
<marjo_> thx to all who helped out!
<marjo_> thx sbeattie
<marjo_> [TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugday highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> Last Bug day we organized was last year, the target was Bugs without a package
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091217
<pedro_> we had a nice participation from the community, as said on the previous meeting, that target is one of the easiest one
<pedro_> so thanks a lot to kamusin, qense, yofel, marcosvanetta, davidboy, shankao, micahg and bdmurray for their participation
<marjo_> pedro_ : what do you mean by "that target is one of the easiest one"?
<pedro_> like if you want to start doing triage, that's one of the easy targets we recommend to new people
<marjo_> ah ok, thx
<marjo_> thx to all who participated!
<pedro_> we are not going to have bug day this week (too much to lately) , however, we're looking targets for the next week
<marjo_> ok
<pedro_> so if you have something in mind, drop the idea at -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
<bdmurray> pedro_: I made a list of packages with lots of apport crashes if that might be interesting
<pedro_> bdmurray, sure! sounds like a good one
<bdmurray> like system-config-printer has 94
<pedro_> is that list available somewhere?
<bdmurray> It is now!
<bdmurray> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/apport-crash-package-count.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/apport-crash-package-count.txt
<pedro_> cool will add that to the planning page, sounds like something we need to have a look from time to time at least for the bug days
<bdmurray> I was looking for things to consolidate
<marjo_> folks: anything else on this topic?
<marjo_> any new topics for discussion?
<pedro_> marjo_, on the bug days no, that's  all
<bdmurray> I have a holiday present coming out soon
<bdmurray> http://murraytwins.com/tmp/lp_highlight_words.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://murraytwins.com/tmp/lp_highlight_words.png
<bdmurray> Its a new greasemonkey script that highlights words in bug reports
<bdmurray> I find it easier to scan bug reports that way
<marjo_> bdmurray: nice!
<pedro_> that looks great :-)
<fader_> bdmurray: Nice!
<bdmurray> Any suggestions for words?  This is what I have
<bdmurray>         'DistroRelease:.*|SourcePackage:.*|lucid|karmic|jaunty|intrepid|hardy|dapper': "yellow",
<bdmurray>         'regression': "red",
<bdmurray> oh, maybe there should be a separate color for old releases
<bdmurray> like breezy ;-)
<pedro_> could you define those somewhere?
<pedro_> ah i see
<marjo_> folks: any new topics for discussion?
<bdmurray> pedro_: they are currently hard coded in the script
<bdmurray> pedro_: do you mean you'd want to add your own words?
<pedro_> bdmurray, right, but editing the script works for me :-P
<pedro_> i was thinking on the kernel folks, they might want to highlight the kernel version for example
<bdmurray> pedro_: got it
<marjo_> folks: any new topics for discussion?
<davmor2> marjo_: just a reminder that alpha 2 is out next week unless something mad happened
<marjo_> reminder: Alpha 2 is next week, 14 january
<marjo_> davmor2: ack
<davmor2> marjo_: Wrong attitude should be YAY!!!!!!
<fader_> davmor2: :)
<marjo_> davmor2: YAY!!!!!!!
 * davmor2 goes off to cry in the corner being as ubiquity is broken
<marjo_> folks: any new topics for discussion?
<marjo_> if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting
<marjo_> going once
<marjo_> twice
<marjo_> meeting adjourned
<soren> Whee!
<marjo_> thx everyone!
<marjo_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:27.
<fader_> Thanks all
<pedro_> thanks
<schwuk> thanks
<kamusin> :)
<davmor2> ta
<highvoltage> Good evening
 * stgraber-n900 waves
<alkisg> Hi all
<highvoltage> hi, who's present?
<stgraber-n900> fighting to get my laptop to boot :)
 * Lns pokes his head in
<highvoltage> ok so I have 5 people noted as present
<highvoltage> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<HedgeMage> I'm here.
<dhillon-v10> I'm here, but a new member though :)
<highvoltage> hi dhillon-v10, and welcome
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, thanks and happy new year to all
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, you seem familiar :)
<mgariepy> hi everybody
<highvoltage> oh right, it's our first meeting of the year
<Lns> hey all
<highvoltage> happy new year to all of you then!
<Lns> woot!
<highvoltage> stgraber: want to say something about the netbook packages perhaps?
 * stgraber waves for real
<Lns> lol
 * highvoltage couldn't help but wave for real either now :)
<stgraber> I don't have X working but that's not really a requirement for IRC, so ...
<stgraber> ok, so, I did the seed changes for the netbook edition
<highvoltage> heh. nice big old fasioned 80x24 irssi :)
<stgraber> though everything is currently stuck because the chinese packages don't install
<maco> highvoltage: not if youve got KMS ;)
<stgraber> nah, I have KMS so that's console but 1440x900 :)
<dhillon-v10> stalcup, if  you don't mind, what seems to be wrong with the chinese packages :)
 * dhillon-v10 apologizes wrong person
<highvoltage> maco: heh, good point
<stgraber> ok, just got X working again !
<stgraber> though not gdm, I had to startx ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I saw you spoke to someone (I think it was cjwatson) about our builds that haven't been running, did you perhaps get any clarification on that?
<stgraber> they actually are running
<stgraber> I just don't get an e-mail about it until it succeeds to debootstrap
<highvoltage> ah I checked today but it still only had the old one from 23 December
<stgraber> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/edubuntu-dvd/
<stgraber> oh, actually, today it's something else that's broken, not the translation package
<highvoltage> yesterday it seems like it was:
<highvoltage>   language-support-zh: Depends: language-support-zh-hans (>= 1:10.04+20091218) but it is not going to be installed
<stgraber>   exiv2: Depends: libexiv2-6 but it is not installable
<nixternal> hola
<highvoltage> yes that's today
<stgraber> kubuntu is failing for a similar reason, so it's not something we can fix in edubuntu, it's common to all derivatives
<stgraber> so, that was for the status of the netbook edition
<stgraber> for the live LTSP, I haven't received an answer from cjwatson_ yet and as we don't get a DVD build anyway, it doesn't really help ;)
<highvoltage> ok
<stgraber> so, that was for the good news ;)
<highvoltage> I guess it's also worth mentioning that there's diskless fat client support in LTSP now which will be available in lucid
<stgraber> right, that package is actually in Lucid now, so it's already supported
<alkisg> highvoltage: can you give us a short intro on how that works?
<highvoltage> alkisg: it's a ltsp plugin
<alkisg> (behind the scenes...)
 * Lns was about to ask the same thing
<highvoltage> alkisg: you basically do a --fat-client --fat-client-desktop x/edu/k/u/buntu
<highvoltage> alkisg: it basically installs the desktop metapackages and all it's dependencies in the chroot
<highvoltage> alkisg: stgraber added to ldm so that if you have a switch set, I think it's FAT_CLIENT = true or something similar in lts.conf
<highvoltage> then ldm will load the local session in the chroot
<stgraber> yep, that's FAT_CLIENT = True
<alkisg> And the user home is mounted with sshfs?
<highvoltage> it has some interesting consequences in the sense that you might want to run some apps remotely
<highvoltage> alkisg: yes
<stgraber> authentication is done using ssh and /home is mounted using sshfs
<highvoltage> so it introduces the concept of remote-apps :)
<Lns> heh
<stgraber> ltsp-remoteapps can be used to start remote applications
<Lns> stgraber: so auth doesn't require passwd/group files to sync w/the chroot or anything?
<highvoltage> cool, I wasn't quite aware that that has been implemented yet
<alkisg> highvoltage: did you try it? How does it "feel"? How much time did it get for a client to boot?
<highvoltage> alkisg: it's quite fast, depends mostly on your network speed
<highvoltage> alkisg: but even on 100mbps it's quite snappy
<stgraber> I'm actually using ltsp-remoteapps at the office with firefox, it's very experimental but for some things, it works
<highvoltage> alkisg: obviously you'll need a much better client than with a thin client
 * alkisg would like to use that instead of standalone ubuntu installations for newer school labs... :)
<alkisg> I'll give it a go as soon as Lucid is workable :-/
<mgariepy> i might be able to try this next week.
<highvoltage> mgariepy: want to give us an update on the menu editor?
<Lns> highvoltage: are the sys requirements for a fat client basically the same as a normal standalone install of ubuntu?
<mgariepy> The menu editor will be ready on the end of the week, i got a few bugs to fix before i release it
<highvoltage> Lns: basically yes. it creates a compressed swap file in ram, I think about 128MB if you have 512MB, but we've also done away with jockey and apport, so it kind of balances out
<highvoltage> Lns: so more or less the same yes
<highvoltage> mgariepy: great!
<Lns> mgariepy: rundown on menu editor?
<mgariepy> i'll post a message on edubuntu-user edubuntu-dev when the package will be ready.
<stgraber> Lns: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Specifications/EdubuntuLucidMenuEditor
<Lns> stgraber: thx
<stgraber> currently it let's you build the menu through the UI and save it, there
<stgraber> there's still a bunch of bugfix to do as well as the actual profile packing
<stgraber> and the UI to assign the menu to groups
<stgraber> but it's looking really good and we are well on time for that
<Lns> so this isn't overlapping any functionality with sabayon, right?
<mgariepy> nop
<stgraber> UI is similar but nope
<Lns> mmk
<stgraber> it's not modifying the user's menu but instead it's using XDG inheriting to modify the system menu
<Lns> so it's basically like a global alacarte ?
<mgariepy> Lns, yeah sort off, but we do not manage new "desktop-entry" only submenu and existing entries
<Lns> cool =)
<highvoltage> thanks mgariepy
<mgariepy> you are welcome.
<highvoltage> on the website front, HedgeMage has been working on a new theme
<highvoltage> she also fixed up our current database
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, I would like to help out with the website
<highvoltage> it was something like 190MB big and she got it down to like, 3MB
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: cool, ping us afterwards on #edubuntu. you're more than welcome to get involved
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, sorry
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: we'll be happy to have you :)
<highvoltage> so once that's replaced the site should be faster
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: sorry for? :)
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, disrupting the meeting when I could have talked to you guys later on
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: oh no problem, it's jsut that we don't want to spend 20 minutes talking about the website here :)
<HedgeMage> So far the upgrade to 6.0 is done, the DB is cleaned up, and issues are written for the rest at http://github.com/HedgeMage/edubuntuorg/issues
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I don't have the links with your mock-ups handy, could you perhaps paste them?
<HedgeMage> Additional comments/issues/etc are welcome
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: hold on, let me grab them from the theming issue
<HedgeMage> Mockups are at http://imagebin.ca/view/KgCXBt.html and http://imagebin.ca/view/5n49WaF.html
<highvoltage> on the wiki side I've started mangling the wiki, meant to delete more pages but I think I already created 2 new ones :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage and I have already discussed that while we are using git to pass changes back and forth while we work, access to the repository will be restricted to protect users' personal information in the DB.  When this is all done I'll write up a case study so folks can use any of the work we've done. :)
<highvoltage> overall they should come down as more are combined though
<HedgeMage> I just wanted to point that out so no one takes offense -- we do want community participation. :)
<highvoltage> indeed
<highvoltage> let
<highvoltage> let's move on to the bug day
<highvoltage> that's happening on the 12th, next week
<highvoltage> sbalneav wrote a nice mail to the list about it
<highvoltage> I think we should blog about it and get the word out
 * HedgeMage puts it on her calendar
<highvoltage> also, if everyone could make an effore to be around and in #edubuntu during the 12th for when people drop by, that would be great
<highvoltage> ideally we should cover as many timezones as possible
<stgraber> I'll try to remember to blog about it
<highvoltage> I'll poke you :)
<highvoltage> anything else?
<highvoltage> how is everyone doing?
<HedgeMage> I have a quick question...
<sbalneav> sorry all, was in a work meeting
<alkisg> About https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/203158 - can we put libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio in the seeds instead of alsa? It'll help in tuxpaint etc working by default, both in workstations and in ltsp...
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 203158 in pulseaudio "libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio must be installed as default by libsdl1.2debian" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<HedgeMage> When it was ust highvoltage and I, making a quick issue queue on github for webstuff seemed like the thing to do, but is there somewhere more central/find-able that we can collaborate at least for issues?
<highvoltage> no problem, any sabayon updates or is it status quo?
<sbalneav> gksu is still broken
<HedgeMage> I'm concerned becasue I'm not sure that github has any feature that will let us keep the queue public while the repo is private.
<sbalneav> mvo is reluctant to --enable-forkpty
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: there's edubuntu-website in Launchpad
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I guess it would be ideal to file bugs against it in LP
<sbalneav> so, I'm going to have to dig into the libgksu code tonight, and see if I can fix it the way he'd prefer.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: that can work, though I think the repo should stay on github because afaik lp does not allow private repos
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok, no problem
<stgraber> LP supports private repo, you just need to poke an admin about it
<highvoltage> we could give that a shoe
<highvoltage> *shot
<stgraber> any other business ?
<alkisg> Should we start using https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/ppa ? E.g. sbalneav could start uploading test versions of sabayon there, and stgraber could upload iTalc... I think it'll give some additional value to edubuntu.
<stgraber> alkisg: I wouldn't just yet
<stgraber> we need to get that team approved for archive upload first
<stgraber> so the less we use it before we go through this process, the easier
<highvoltage> stgraber: where do we do that? at the next developer board meeting?
<sbalneav> alkisg++
<stgraber> votation will end in two weeks, then we'll get the new developer board in place and we'll be able to ask for edubuntu-dev to be approved
<highvoltage> ok
<dhillon-v10> how about like a screenshot tour of edubuntu
<stgraber> dhillon-v10: sounds like a good idea, we should probably think of that once we have the new website up and running and relatively close to relesae
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: we used to have that, I think it just became outdated so we removed it
<stgraber> as we currently don't know what Edubuntu will look like
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: but a new one would be nice indeed
<highvoltage> oh yes!
<dhillon-v10> well :) after the rc gets out
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: since you own edubuntu-webteam can you take into getting us that private repo?
<highvoltage> I forgot to mention, I got in touch with Mads Rosendahl who did the ldm ubuntu artwork
<highvoltage> he's going to make some wallpapers/artwork for us
<highvoltage> hopefully it's real nice then we'll be able to finalise our artwork quite early
<alkisg> Yey! That ldm artwork is very cool!
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: In the mean time maybe dhillon-v10 and I can copy our issues over -- there are only 15 or so, so doing it manually should not be a big deal.
<sbalneav> dhillon-v10: ah, you saw I added you to bugsquad?
<stgraber> highvoltage: you didn't forward me the answer it seems ;)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: nice :) (re: artwork)
<dhillon-v10> sbalneav, yup thanks a bunch :)
<alkisg> About the pulseaudio problem, ubuntu doesn't seem to want to put libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio on the CD seeds, as it isn't in main (while -alsa is). But it breaks all SDL apps, both on workstations and on LTSP. On the other hand, we don't have the "main" limitation, we are allowed to put stuff from universe to our DVD. Should we consider putting it to the DVD seeds?
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright I can do that :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok that sounds good
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: thanks :D
<highvoltage> stgraber: eek, I assumed he replied-to-all, I'll do so
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: in the mean time could you add dhillon-v10 and I to the webteam so we can play with the issue queue?
<stgraber> alkisg: any other reason why it's not in Ubuntu ? because if the only reason is that it's not in main, then we do a MIR and are done with it
<highvoltage> ok, you can both just apply and I'll approve
<stgraber> I'm trying to make sure we have all core components of Edubuntu in main so we have the LTS support for these
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, a quick question: since the some of the issues have been worked upon by different people could it be a good idea to have them as blueprints ?
<stgraber> actual packages are less of an issue but common libraries really should be in main
<alkisg> stgraber: I didn't hear of any other reason. They don't want it in Kubuntu/Xubuntu, as those don't use pulseaudio, but for Ubuntu, all bug reports state that "installing libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio resolves the no audio and hanging apps problems"
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: done
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, I think I am in the website team here right:https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-website
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: it was my impression (and I haven't used LP in years) that a blueprint might be for say, the web relaunch as a whole, but they aren't really for individual issues.
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: yes you are
<stgraber> alkisg: did you try poking TheMuso about it ? IIRC he's the one taking care of the sound stuff in Ubuntu
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, okay then :)
<highvoltage> blueprints are for speficications
<alkisg> stgraber: no, the last person I talked with was crimsun
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, true I was wondering for some of then that are like enhancements
<highvoltage> stgraber and I have to run to another meeting in 5 minutes
<HedgeMage> what's edge.launchpad.net ?
<stgraber> highvoltage: Ben isn't at the office yet, we have a few more mins it seems
<highvoltage> is there anything else important that we need to log before moving to #edubuntu?
<alkisg> stgraber: I'll try poking TheMuso, but I'm afraid I'll need someone to back me up for the MIR
<highvoltage> ah, ok :)
<HedgeMage> I don't think so
 * HedgeMage departs
<stgraber> alkisg: you can write the MIR following the new process (since this week) as describe on ubuntu-devel, then subscribe me to the bug
<stgraber> I'll poke pitti if necessary to get it reviewed
<alkisg> stgraber: do you have a link for the new MIR process?
<alkisg> (if it's on the wiki, I'll find it...)
<stgraber> alkisg: in your mailbox
<alkisg> Thanks :)
<highvoltage> ok...
<highvoltage> *BONG*
<highvoltage> (time to teleport to #edubuntu)
<stgraber> hey, we finished it on time !
<Lns> 2min to spare even
<mgariepy> have a nice day all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-01-07
<MMX-Dimitrov> Hi to all! ÐÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼!
<dpm> hi everyone, welcome to the translations team meeting
<dpm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is dpm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dpm> Let's see who's there
<ianto> Present
<happyaron> hi
<morphias> hi
<EleanorC> hi
<MMX-Dimitrov> ÑÑ
<MMX-Dimitrov> hi
<umi> hi all
<ArneGoetje> hi
<Moshie> Observing*
<dpm> wow, we've got quite a turn up today, welcome all!
* MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting | The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<kelemengabor> hi
<adiroiban> hi all
<dpm> hi kelemengabor, hi adiroiban
<dpm> shall we start, then?
<morphias> sure
<morphias> unless you want to wait for the last minute ppl
<MichealH> We have already Started
<MichealH> This is the Ubuntu Documentation Team Meeting Specific for Translations
<dpm> [TOPIC] Keeping track of UTC tasks
<MootBot> New Topic:  Keeping track of UTC tasks
<dpm> adiroiban, I think you added this one, can you tell a few words on that one?
<adiroiban> it's about the new usage of blueprints
<adiroiban> and the old bugs taged as "task"
* MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting the meeting is about keeping track of UTC Tasks| Support Avalible on #ubuntu | The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<adiroiban> since we have some nice graphs for blueprints
<adiroiban> I think we should use them
<adiroiban> but in the same time, bugs marked as "task" seems more flexible
<dpm> right, so we've got 1. http://piware.de/workitems/community/lucid/report.html
<dpm> and 2. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bugs?field.tag=tasks
<dpm> I'm still not too sure of using bugs as a means of tracking tasks
<dpm> on the other hand, http://piware.de/workitems/community/lucid/report.html are the high priority items, or what we've committed to for Lucid
<dpm> and I'd like to focus on those and keep what might not be as important separated
<MichealH> dpm: Using Bugs is simple because the simplest Task may be a spelling Correction so that is classed as a bug /problem /issue.
<MichealH> Welcome skydrome
<adiroiban> well, this was more about Ubuntu Translation tasks...like âdocumenting translationsâ
<dpm> MichealH, we are talking of tasks which require some time to complete, not actual bugs
<adiroiban> or ârename ubuntu docs templatesâ
<dpm> adiroiban, I think I'd prefer keep using the wiki or blueprints for that, perhaps we could have a separate set for translations tasks
<adiroiban> dpm: ok.
<dpm> in any case, most of the stuff on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Events/UDS/Lucid is already in http://piware.de/workitems/community/lucid/report.html, so I should just clean it up and leave only the stuff that's not tracked in blueprints
<adiroiban> dpm: ok. then I will see how we can move the current bugs to wiki or blueprints
<adiroiban> we can continue with the next topic
<dpm> what I like about blueprints or the wiki is that we can break things down in smaller actions and tick them as done
<dpm> ok
<MichealH> If you would like to get involved in the community goto http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<dpm> [TOPIC] Review of translations installation test cases
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of translations installation test cases
<dpm> This is simply about what we talked about at UDS about improving the QA of translations, starting with the installation
* MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting the meeting is about: Review of translations installation test cases Topic Creator: dpm| Support Avalible on #ubuntu| The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<dpm> We've got a series of test cases defined, and it would be good that we review them
<dpm> or propose new ones
<dpm> Here's some background -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-January/003180.html
<dpm> And here are the test cases
<dpm> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/NonEnglishLanguage
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/NonEnglishLanguage
<dpm> First of all, are there any questions related to these test cases?
<happyaron> I think testcase about input method is so loose
<adiroiban> agree
<EleanorC> yes
<dpm> happyaron, yes, I agree, that's why I was asking if someone who usually uses them could review and expand them
<adiroiban> we should add some info about how to add special character
<adiroiban> like enable ibus
<adiroiban> Ctrl+Space
<dpm> happyaron, EleanorC, do you think you could do that?
<adiroiban> and press a + b + c + d
<EleanorC> I am working on the CJK
<dpm> (or would anyone else volunteer?)
<adiroiban> and a screenshot with how the tools will pop up
<MichealH> If you would like to agree say "[AGREE]"
<adiroiban> and the character is inserted
<happyaron> dpm: sure, EleanorC is working on it
<dpm> great
<MichealH> If you have a Idea write "[IDEA]"
<happyaron> dpm: but we can only cover maybe Chinese(CN/TW)
<happyaron> but not sure for ja/ko and others
<EleanorC> I may find one girl in my class to deal with korea
<kelemengabor> dpm: how can I determine, going trough these tests, that the problem affects only my language (something is translatable, just not translated yet), or all (so there is a real problem)?
<happyaron> EleanorC: good
<EleanorC> and another to try japanese
<dpm> happyaron, that's fine, that will be the start. I think others might be able to take the C/K examples as basis
<dpm> or we can make the test case more generic
<dpm> which is admittedly how it should be
<ArneGoetje> just a note: in the Live CD, CJK inputmethods are not installed, because of space restrictions. They need to be downloaded and installed in the live session first.
<happyaron> dpm: well, EleanorC is in a language school, she said she could find somebody for ja and ko
<happyaron> ArneGoetje: nope
<happyaron> ArneGoetje: ibus-m17n provide some basic usage
 * happyaron though not enough
<ArneGoetje> happyaron: yes, I know, but there are bugs filed that it is broken in some cases... so, I wouldn't recommend to use them until it is fixed
<dpm> ArneGoetje, so you'd recommend to install them first? Just for CJK or for other languages requiring IM as well?
<happyaron> dpm: in fact, ibus-m17n cannot cover the usage of Chinese input
<ArneGoetje> happyaron: the IMEs most users would like to use for CJK, need to be installed separately... they are ibus-anthy (ja), ibus-hangul (ko), ibus-pinyin (zh-hans) and ibus-chewing (zh-hant)
<MichealH> [IDEA]In the Live CD, CJK inputmethods are not installed, because of space restrictions. They need to be downloaded and installed in the live session first.
<MootBot> IDEA received: In the Live CD, CJK inputmethods are not installed, because of space restrictions. They need to be downloaded and installed in the live session first.
<happyaron> ArneGoetje: sure I know, :)
<MichealH> Say [AGREE] If you agree
<ArneGoetje> dpm: just for CJK and maybe Vietnamese
<dpm> ok, thanks ArneGoetje
<MMX-Dimitrov> but not everyone can access to internet imediately
<ArneGoetje> MichealH: why do you use idea? I stated the current situation.
<morphias> im with MMX-Dimitrov
<MichealH> because you can write [IDEA] to write an idea
<EleanorC> yesï¼ internet access isn't always easy to get in live session
<ArneGoetje> MichealH: ... I didn't propose anything as an idea. I explained the current situation in response to the entry on the testcase page
<dpm> MMX-Dimitrov, that's true, but due to the space restrictions this has not an easy solution. We should make clear that this particular test case requires an Internet connection
<Lint01> couldn't we just drop something from LiveCD so we haven't to cripple the system?
 * ebouza Hello everyone, I am new to the Ubuntu family and it is my first time attending this meeting
<happyaron> dpm: in fact Live session users always don't have the chance to access internet
<happyaron> dpm: for mostu sers in China, I meant
<ArneGoetje> Lint01: we have a project under way to reduce the size of the Chinese IM modules, so they might fit on the LiveCD later. But that takes time and won't be finished for lucid.
<dpm> Lint01, it is always difficult to balance what can be included in the CD
<MMX-Dimitrov> maybe its time to migrate to LiveDVD&
<MMX-Dimitrov> maybe its time to migrate to LiveDVD?
<MichealH> Welcome ebouza! Welcome to the meeting If you have a Idea write "[IDEA]" If you would like to agree say "[AGREE]"
<dpm> MMX-Dimitrov, there is already a LiveDVD
<dpm> anyway, I think we should get back on topic
<ebouza> MichaelH: Thank you
<dpm> We've agreed that the IM test case needs to be expanded
<happyaron> yes
<EleanorC> sure
<dpm> and EleanorC is willing to work on that
<dpm> ArneGoetje, do you know which other languages requiring IM support we could target additionally for that test case?
<MichealH> MMX-Dimitrov : Please use the OffTopic Channel for that @ #Ubuntu-offtopic
<ArneGoetje> dpm: VN and all languages in India
<ebouza> Are you testing in Spanish?
<ArneGoetje> dpm: and languages which derieved from that
<happyaron> ebouza: does Spanish need an input method?
<MMX-Dimitrov> MichealH : ok
<dpm> ebouza, you can test in any language, but the particular test case we are discussing is for languages with special requirements on inputting characters
<EleanorC> happyaron: sure, spanish needs
<happyaron> EleanorC: ok
<ebouza> happyaron:  Yes it would
<dpm> Spanish does not need an input method
 * happyaron well, who is right?
<morphias> ebouza, we are talking about characters not usually in the ASCII lookup
<ArneGoetje> morphias: no, we are not.
<ArneGoetje> morphias: for european languages we only need XKB keyboard layouts
<ebouza> Well wouldn't Spanish fall under that category for it's special characters?
<morphias> ah, thanks for the correction
<ArneGoetje> morphias: input methods are used for more complex languages which have too many possibilities to fit onto a single keyboard layout
<dpm> ebouza, no, you can type the characters as they appear in the keyboard's layout
<happyaron> ah
<ebouza> Got you, Ok I understand
<morphias> understand
<dpm> ok, great :)
<MichealH> Next Topic?
<dpm> anyway, so is everyone happy with the current set of installation test cases for translations at http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/NonEnglishLanguage?
<dpm> Would someone like to propose another one?
<dpm> or to modify one of the existing ones?
<morphias> its a good step forward, i dont have nothing.
<happyaron> dpm: I think we need to check the installer
<Lint01> what version we are testing?
<dpm> Lint01, this is going to be for Lucid
<dpm> happyaron, in which way you'd like to check the installer?
<happyaron> dpm: translations of installer
<MichealH> [TOPIC] Langages/ Translations on the Installer/LiveCD
<kelemengabor> dpm: I think "the system has to be fully localized." is a bit too generic
<happyaron> you know we are missing several languages of the slides in Karmic final LiveCD
<kelemengabor> perhaps it should say only the installer itself should be fully localized
* MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting the meeting is about: Langages/ Translations on the Installer/LiveCD Topic Creator: dpm| Support Avalible on #ubuntu| The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<EleanorC> yes, so a check may be better
<dpm> MichealH, please do not change the topic - topics are listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2010-01-07
<happyaron> kelemengabor: and it should be verified
<happyaron> bug 476269
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476269 in ubuntu-translations "Chinese, Brazilian Portuguese, and English variant translations aren't shown during Karmic installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476269
<happyaron> this could cause very bad impression
<EleanorC> yes, and this caused some trouble
<dpm> happyaron, kelemengabor looking at the first test case, then perhaps we could add an additional point mentioning to check that the installer is also translated
<happyaron> dpm: agree
<kelemengabor> dpm: wait, isn't this test case only about the installer?
<dpm> kelemengabor, the first one refers to the installation of the system, and to check that the system is localized after installation
<dpm> it doesn't explicitly mention to check the installer itself, which I think is what we should add
<kelemengabor> oh, I see...
<MichealH> I am sure there are some Languages missing in the Installer but there are problems in eh Alpha1 installer of Lucid anyway.
<kelemengabor> so this is basically about "check that language packs are installed and used"
<dpm> yes
<kelemengabor> perhaps this could be added too
<kelemengabor> so that no one starts complaining about missing strings of applications
<dpm> yes, that's a good point
<Lint01> "For any language, the system has to be fully localized. /!\ Note: the translation coverage of some languages might not be complete
<Lint01> that's an oxymoron
<dpm> Lint01, perhaps. Feel free to rephrase it :-)
<kelemengabor> dpm: so, we could add a "Goal of this test case" field to all of the cases?
<happyaron> dpm: and should we pay some attention to bug 441986?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441986 in ubuntu-translations "Live CD "Examples" desktop item translations depended on having the PO files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441986
<kelemengabor> I think this could help us to see what kind of errors are we looking for
<MichealH> [IDEA]Check the Installer for any missing Installer Languages and then Get Involved with the LoCo/Translation Team and/or Development Team
<MootBot> IDEA received: Check the Installer for any missing Installer Languages and then Get Involved with the LoCo/Translation Team and/or Development Team
<dpm> kelemengabor, that's a good point, I'll check it out with the QA team, because the test cases might have a defined syntax
<MichealH> Anyone agree?
<morphias> [AGREE]
<dpm> ok, thanks for all the feedback, if there is more, please post it to the mailing list
<dpm> I think now I'd like to reshuffle the topics priorities a bit, since we haven't got much time left
<MichealH> Topic for the last 10 mins?
<dpm> [TOPIC] Announcement of upcoming Hardy.4 service release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announcement of upcoming Hardy.4 service release
<dpm> ArneGoetje, could you tell us a few words on that, please?
<ArneGoetje> We will have the 8.04.4 service release in the end of this month.
<ArneGoetje> For that, I'm going to create new -base language-packs. This will happen soon, within the next days.
<ArneGoetje> The language packs will be uploaded to the languag pack PPA first and them moved over to hardy-proposed.
<ArneGoetje> I'd like to ask for volunteers to help test the new language-packs in a Hardy VM or so...
<morphias> id help test (even though im not bi-langual)
<dpm> right, so there will be a call for testing. ArneGoetje, do you think we can take the opportunity to release the Karmic language packs to -proposed as well?
<ArneGoetje> dpm: sure, I can build them too.
<dpm> I think it makes sense, since we haven't updated them yet
<ArneGoetje> dpm: yup
<happyaron> then we can make an announcement at mailing list, to tell teams work on them
<dpm> could you please build them, then, and let me know? I can take care of the announcement and call for testing, if you like
<ArneGoetje> dpm: of course
<MichealH> Remember: The meeting Ends at 5:00 PM GMT
<dpm> great
<dpm> adiroiban, the other 2 topics were yours, is it ok if we postpone them to the next meeting or to the ML?
<dpm> we can leave the last few minutes for any questions
<adiroiban> dpm: sure. np
<happyaron> we can talk about the first step of terminology at #ubuntu-translators
<dpm> any questions before we finish?
<dpm> happyaron, sure
<MichealH> Few last words
<happyaron> it is at a starting stage
<MichealH> Get help at www.ubuntuforums.org or goto the Ubuntu IRC Channel @ #ubuntu
<morphias> so for these hardy language packs, they are for the installed hardy not the installer correct?
<MichealH> Get Involved @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<ArneGoetje> morphias: correct
<morphias> ok
<happyaron> ArneGoetje: will there be new LiveCD?
<ArneGoetje> happyaron: not sure about that one... need to ask in #ubuntu-release
<morphias> for however needs testers, add me.  ill create a vm guest.
<happyaron> ArneGoetje: it there is, we still can update translations of installer perhaps
<MichealH> happyaron : Yes Lucid Lynx in 21st April
<dpm> great, thanks morphias!
<ArneGoetje> happyaron: yes, need to contact with the installer team about that
<happyaron> MichealH: sorry, I meant Hardy .4
<morphias> no prob
<dpm> ok, thank you everyone for your participation and keep up the good work!
<dpm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
* MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the The IRC Meeting Channel | Support Avalible on #ubuntu| The next meeting begins at 10PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<MichealH> ETA Till Next Meeting 4hours 44minutes
<morphias> mmk :-)
* MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the The IRC Meeting Channel | Support Avalible on #ubuntu | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<MichealH> ETA 3 hours untill meeting
* MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the The IRC Meeting Channel | Meeting "Ubuntu Women IRC Meeting" commencing at 9PM GMT. I will be on this channel although I am not a women so this IRC Channel will be managed. | Support Avalible on #ubuntu | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<MichealH>  Discuss off topic stuff on #ubuntu-offtopic
<MichealH> Get help at www.ubuntuforums.org or goto the Ubuntu IRC Channel @ #ubuntu
<MichealH> Get Involved @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<Pici> ...
* Pici changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the The IRC Meeting Channel | Support in #ubuntu | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
* Pici changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<Seveas> Pici, time for /mode +t ?
<Pici> Seveas: I was thinking about it.
<Pici> That works too
<MichealH> Dont forget the Lucd Lynx Weekly Discussion Meeting Every Friday @ 4PM GMT on #ubuntu-meeting (Subject to change may end earlier if there is nothing to discuss)
<MichealH> See the Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<Seveas> who is this michaelh character?
<Pici> Someone who thinks they're helping.
<Pici> Time to talk to them again :/
<MichealH> Dont forget the Lucd Lynx Weekly Discussion Meeting Every Friday @ 4PM GMT on #ubuntu-meeting (Subject to change may end earlier if there is nothing to discuss)
<MichealH> Get help at www.ubuntuforums.org or goto the Ubuntu IRC Channel @ #ubuntu
<MichealH> Get Involved @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<MichealH> Dont forget the Women Council Meeting on this channel at 9PM GMT.
<MichealH> There is a channel I set up for lessons and advice to other Ubuntu users help us grow! ##ubuntu-lessons is the name (yes 2 hashes!)
<MichealH> ETA 2 hours untill Women Councel Meeting
<mhall119|work> Women Council?
<MichealH> Its all on here (See the Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar (
<MichealH> It says that on the Fridge Calendar
<mhall119|work> I've just never heard the name "Women Council"
<MichealH> ok
<mhall119|work> afaik, they haven't even voted for a project lead yes
<mhall119|work> yet
<maxb> MichealH: It feels rather inappropriate to me for you to be advertising your unofficial (two hashes) channel in an ubuntu official channel
<MichealH> ETA 90 mins to Women IRC Meeting
<maxb> MichealH: It feels rather inappropriate to me for you to be advertising your unofficial (two hashes) channel in an ubuntu official channel
<jussi01> MichealH: youve been asked not to do announcements, is there a reason you are continuing or?
<jussi01> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<jussi01> MichealH: have a look at those
<jussi01> !contribute | MichealH you may want to look here at ways you can contribute also.  :)
<ubottu> MichealH you may want to look here at ways you can contribute also.  :): To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<MichealH> !hammertime
<bodhi_zazen> 5 minutes or so =)
<bapoumba> <hey bodhi :)
<technoviking> hi all
<bapoumba> Hey Mike!
<bodhi_zazen> bapoumba: !!!!
<bodhi_zazen> how is the snow ?
<bapoumba> bad :)
<bapoumba> we are not used to it here
<bodhi_zazen> Montana is at -18 F
<bapoumba> Oh, that's serious cold..
<bodhi_zazen> Aye, should warm up tomorrow
<bodhi_zazen> Shall we start ?
<technoviking> is anyone else here yet
<bodhi_zazen> jdong: technoviking bodhi_zazen bapoumba =)
<bodhi_zazen> The agenda looks light, we can wait ...
<jdong> here :)
<jdong> thanks for poking me
<bodhi_zazen> np , happy NY jdong
<technoviking> We got 4, we are good to go:)
<jdong> thanks, you too :)
<bodhi_zazen> .startmeeting
<bodhi_zazen> .start
<jdong> (5 minutes and 2 pages later)
<jdong> *ducks*
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:03. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<jdong> yay!
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<technoviking> Is Tom here?
<bodhi_zazen> Tom Gelinas you here ?
<bodhi_zazen> I believe Tom has some good points, but the forums are not the only resource for these issues and perhaps if we send Tom to the Wiki Team, LP, mailing list ?
<bodhi_zazen> Any other topics to discuss ?
<technoviking> none here
<jdong> none here either
<bodhi_zazen> None for me
<technoviking> lets call it then
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:11.
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<bodhi_zazen> thank you everyone =)
<jdong> cool :)
<bapoumba> did I disconnect ?
<technoviking> nope just quier
<technoviking> quiet
<bapoumba> ok :)
<bapoumba> Should we start or wait ?
<bodhi_zazen> you missed it bapoumba
<bodhi_zazen> http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/
<bodhi_zazen> Tom is not here and nobody had additional agenda items
<bapoumba> was not it today 22 UTC ?
<bodhi_zazen> do you have an agenda item ?
<bodhi_zazen> yes it was bapoumba
<bapoumba> So I got disconnected, me thinks
<bapoumba> I had xchat opened all th etime
<bodhi_zazen> yep, sounds right :(
<bapoumba> I connected at 21 UTC for the u-w meeting, which I attended :/
<bapoumba> I do not understand
<bapoumba> would you have the logs of the FC meeting bodhi please ?
<bodhi_zazen> They are not up yet (I just checked)
<bapoumba> so did I :)
<bapoumba> maybe your logs ?
<bodhi_zazen> bapoumba: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m54a5faf1
<bodhi_zazen> Mootbot did all the talking, as you can see =)
<bapoumba> Thanks, that was one of the shortest meetings :)
<bodhi_zazen> np, it is nice to see, not many issues (problems) on the forums at the moment
 * bodhi_zazen goes to stir up some trolls =)
<bapoumba> I'm sorry. I did not hear nay bells and notifications, so I assumed we were waiting..
<bodhi_zazen> I will keep that in mind, try to ping you next time
<bapoumba> Well, if my connection to irc with xchat was acting up, there was not much to do :/
<forumsmatthew> is the meeting done?
<forumsmatthew> I just gt home
<forumsmatthew> gt=got
<bodhi_zazen> welcome forumsmatthew =)
<bapoumba> I'll try the web thing from technoviking next time
<bodhi_zazen> forumsmatthew: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m54a5faf1
<bapoumba> hello forumsmatthew :)
<bodhi_zazen> unless you have an agenda item
<forumsmatthew> lol, nope
<forumsmatthew> that was the fastest ever
<bodhi_zazen> Happy New Year forumsmatthew , your fast actions on the Forums are making the rest of us look like slackers =)
<forumsmatthew> I do my best
<forumsmatthew> ;P
<forumsmatthew> I've been off for two weeks
<forumsmatthew> I go back to class next week
<forumsmatthew> things will return to normal then
<bapoumba> bodhi_zazen, +1 :)
<bodhi_zazen> good luck with that forumsmatthew , enjoy
<forumsmatthew> thank you
<forumsmatthew> since there isn't anything left in the meeting, I'm going to go and play with my kids
<forumsmatthew> have a great day, everyone!
<bapoumba> Mine are asleep !
<forumsmatthew> 1530 here
<bapoumba> see you around matthew
<bapoumba> 23:20 here
<bapoumba> 23:30
<bapoumba> I'm going to leave too
<bapoumba> Bye :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-01-08
<mdeonte> !startmeeting
<mdeonte> .startmeeting
<persia> It's with a #
<dholbach> porthose, randomaction: you guys around?
<randomaction> yes
<dholbach> right now we have a bit of a quorum problem... persia and nixternal are there, but we need one MC member more :)
<nixternal> MC Hammer!
<dholbach> but I'm sure we'll manage to get there in a bit
<dholbach> nixternal: I'm sure you still have one of those very baggy, pink pants from the 90s? :)
 * dholbach is going to text soren
<nixternal> ping no, a light colored red yes
<nixternal> pink, not ping
 * porthose waves :)
 * persia dithers harder
 * soren wanders in
<nixternal> hola
<nixternal> right as dholbach went to walk his dog
<persia> The timing is truly unfortunate
 * porthose yawns and tries not to fall asleep on his key board
<persia> porthose: If you're that tired, you might want to try another time.  I'm not convinced we'll have quorum soon, or even at all.
<persia> Some people are not yet around, and some people are falling asleep.
<nixternal> porthose: you and I both
<porthose> persia, I can hang for a while longer :)
<nixternal> 02:10 herezzzZZZZzzZzZzzZz
<porthose> nixternal, same for me ;)
 * soren chuckles
<soren> I just realised dholbach created my calendar entry for this meeting. :)
<soren> dholbach: What's your secret trick to knowing the right time in spite of Google Calendar? :)
<dholbach> back
<dholbach> soren: I did that ages ago
<soren> dholbach: What? Added that calendar entry?
<nixternal> go go go
<nixternal> porthose and I are falling asleep
<nixternal> not together though
<dholbach> soren: yep
<porthose> nixternal, haha :)
<soren> dholbach: Can you move it, please? That'll give me a better chance of being on time. :)
<dholbach> done
<dholbach> so we're one member short again.. I'd propose to have the meeting now and ask questions and do the vote via mail... does that sound alright to you?
<porthose> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> nixternal, soren?
<nixternal> +1
<dholbach> maybe we're lucky and jpds or geser turn up :)
<nixternal> persia might turn back up as well
<nixternal> seeing as your dog walk lasted more than 20 minutes :p
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 02:47. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Charlie Smotherman's MOTU application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Charlie Smotherman's MOTU application
<dholbach> hey porthose... how are you doing? what time is it over there?
<porthose> a little tired but other wise ok 0248hrs :)
<dholbach> wow... that's dedication
 * dholbach has no more questions ;-)
<porthose> :)
<dholbach> porthose: so what are your plans once you're MOTU, anything specific for lucid and lucid+1?
<nixternal> that would have been my only question for porthose seeing as we have questioned him who knows how many times in the past already :)
<porthose> The major thing I have planned is to get more involved in the mentoring program
<porthose> as a mentor that is :)
<dholbach> porthose: we had a couple of discussions about that before... how do you think people best spend their time as a mentor?
<nixternal> we have quorum now dholbach
<persia> I have a new question :)  porthose: You say that the only thing you dislike is Ubuntu developers who do not submit their patches to Debian.  What sort of strategies might we employ to reduce the effort required to determine if a given patch is appropriate for Debian, or do you think we should expect the Debian Developers to make the decisions?
<porthose> dholbach, I would say insuring that prospective developers have a good knowledge of the basic processes
 * nixternal remembers this discussion previously
<porthose> persia, to answer your question is to make sure that while mentoring prospective developers patches that should be sent upstream are sent upstream
<nixternal> now I have a question to follow up on persia just to make sure I am not mixing this up, but didn't you list that same problem when you did universe-contributor, and your numerous per package rights applications?
<porthose> nixternal, yes
<dholbach> porthose: and what kind of activities do you suggest? there's already a lot of patch review and sponsoring going on, what else should a mentor do (that the general developer community can't)?
<nixternal> ok, thought so, as I asked a similar question to persia's before
<nixternal> see persia, my brain isn't that bad afterall :p
<persia> nixternal: very similar :)
<nixternal> and i have one closed
<porthose> mentors IMHO develop a personal one on one relationship with the mentee, thus creating trust
<persia> porthose: Where I'm curious is about the decision process for determining if a given patch belongs in Debian.  Clearly you're (still) not happy with the nature of the decisions taken in general, and so I wonder what we can do to make you happy with the decisions.
<porthose> this trust can be utilized to discuss the weaknesses of the mentee and thus the mentor is able to concentrate on improving these areas
<dholbach> porthose: I was just interested to see how you think our general approach of teaching (docs, sessions, videos, help on irc and mailing lists, patch review, etc.) fits in with the more personal mentoring
<dholbach> ok, but my question is answered :)
<dholbach> persia, nixternal, soren: more questions?
<nixternal> none here
<soren> No, I think porthose has been grilled plenty.
 * persia still kinda wants an answer
<soren> Today and in the past :)
<porthose> persia, I am a happy with the decision process for determining if patches go upstream, it's just that not all people do it.  to include myself, some time it is just a forgotten step in a persons work flow :)
<persia> porthose: So you feel that the reason patches don't go to Debian is because people don't bother, rather than because they can't decide?
<persia> Is there anything we could do to reduce the effort (grab the Debian package, build in a Debian environment, test in a Debian environment) that might make people do it more?
<porthose> persia, to me it just comes natural to test in a debian and ubuntu chroot, because I do maintain packages in debian, an so that is how I would also mentor
<porthose> I reall don't think it is because people don't bother, I think they just forget
<dholbach> geser: questions? :)
<persia> OK.
 * geser has no questions
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Charlie Smotherman become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Charlie Smotherman become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dholbach> soren, geser?
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<dholbach> congratulations porthose!
<nixternal> congrats porthose !
<persia> Congratulations porthose
<porthose> Thank You MC :)
<dholbach> randomaction: still there? :)
<persia> Welcome tothe team :)
<randomaction> yep
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Ilya Barygin's MOTU Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ilya Barygin's MOTU Application
 * porthose dances around the room and high fives his dog :)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IlyaBarygin/MOTUApplication
<dholbach> randomaction: how are you doing today? :)
<randomaction> fine, thank you
<persia> randomaction: So, you say you need better changelogs.  Could you describe a perfect changelog entry?
<randomaction> sure, explain what you did, which files were changed, what bugs you close, possibly reference other things of interest
<randomaction> e.g. "this should be dropped after [some thing] happens"
<dholbach> randomaction: your work seems to be quite diverse... how do you usually decide what you work on?
<randomaction> presently I mostly work on merges
<randomaction> I have a list of outstanding merges sorted by last-changed-in-Ubuntu date
<randomaction> so I request merges/syncs for packages that were touched long ago and were probably forgotten
<dholbach> ok, I just had a look at your application again and you mentioned other QA activity too, like ftbfs fixes, etc
<randomaction> yes, I plan to switch focus there after FF
<dholbach> randomaction: how do you think we can fix the problem with the inclusion o fnew packages?
<dholbach> ... of new packages
<randomaction> this is hard - first you need to understand whether Ubuntu is all-inclusive or not
<persia> randomaction: Do you believe it to be all-inclusive or not?
<dholbach> and what does all-inclusive mean in this case? :)
<randomaction> many packages are proposed by their authors, so it's hard to decide whether it's gonna be used by many people
<randomaction> it's "people should not need to go anywhere else except official repos" vs "we should only include software that adds value / needed by many / etc"
<randomaction> as things stand not, relatively few packages go through REVU, so as it happens only packages with sufficient interest are included
<persia> randomaction: Do you have a preference for how Ubuntu should be?
<randomaction> s/not/now/
<randomaction> I think that there should be at least some selectiveness
<persia> What sort of criteria should apply?
<randomaction> (and we have it now, at the cost of hundreds unreviewed packages)
<randomaction> probably something similar to Debian, can't remember what exactly they are, but they say something like "if you have a random piece of free software, don't expect it to be included automatically"
<persia> Well, Debian expects someone to take responsibility for maintaining it as one of the criteria.  How might we handle a similar thing in the absence of defined maintainers?
<randomaction> that said, if some software catches interest of, say, two Ubuntu devs, I think it's going to be included
<randomaction> Ubuntu's packages not in Debian need maintenance
<randomaction> so effectively the one who uploaded a package should take care of it
<dholbach> you mean whoever packaged it, right?
<randomaction> even if not listed as an official maintainer
<persia> Or whoever uploaded it?
<randomaction> yes, whoever packaged, as getting sponsorship is quite easy (yay for the empty queue btw!)
<dholbach> ok :)
<persia> randomaction: How do you feel about the use of new packaging as a way to learn packaging?
<persia> (this is one argument for lots of REVU that has been used in the past)
<randomaction> the more problematic the package, the more you will learn :)
<randomaction> if rules.tiny works ok, you won't learn much I guess
<randomaction> experience is gained by seeing different situations and understanding what happens where
<dholbach> geser, soren, nixternal: more questions?
<nixternal> none here
<geser> none here
 * dholbach neither
<dholbach> persia: you're done?
<persia> Well, I could probe at this for a while, but I don't need the discussion to make a decision.
<dholbach> ok :)
<dholbach> soren?
<dholbach> ok.. I take that as a yes :)
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Ilya Barygin become MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Ilya Barygin become MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
 * persia pokes soren with a sharper stick
 * soren rushes back in
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<soren> Sorry, guys.
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<nixternal> congrats randomaction
<dholbach> congratulations randomaction!
<persia> Welcome randomaction
<randomaction> thank you
<soren> It's like these meetings seem like an invite to random people to come and knock on my door.
<nixternal> hehe
<dholbach> hehe
<nixternal> alrighty, off to bed for me
<nixternal> g'nite all!
<dholbach> night nixternal
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<dholbach> Who's going to do the honours?
<persia> As long as we're quorate in a formal meeting, I may as well confirm that we're happy to accept recommendations from the DMB on Contributing Developers until the Community Council completes the action from their recent decision.
<dholbach> who's going to process the applications and everything?
<dholbach> geser, soren, persia, nixternal, jpds, nhandler: ^? :-)
<persia> I can do them in about 22 hours, but if someone can get to them faster, that would be better.
 * dholbach has a bunch of other stuff to do today, but as nobody seems to volunteer I'll try to squeeze it in
<dholbach> anything else?
<persia> dholbach: Then if you miss, I'll get it early your tomorrow :)
<dholbach> alrightie
<dholbach> thanks everybody!
<dholbach> adjourned
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 03:42.
<pitti> hello all
 * slangasek waves
 * fader_ waves.
<ev> hi
<ev> (standing in for cjwatson)
<ttx> o/
<fader_> I am standing in for marjo today.
 * apw waves in a kernely way
 * asac waves
<slangasek> davidm, ogra, Riddell, jiboumans, ScottK, pgraner, njpatel, jdstrand: ping
<Riddell> afternoon
<njpatel> hey
<jiboumans> o/
<jdstrand> o/
<slangasek> hi all
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> Riddell: hey Jonathan, thanks for joining in your holidays
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-01-08
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-01-08
<Riddell> pitti: it's not my holidays (as far as I know?)
<pitti> Riddell: oh, I thought so; nevermind then
<slangasek> [TOPIC] actions from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  actions from previous meeting
<slangasek>   * slangasek to confirm with asac how to get the list of packages that still need rebuilt for arm toolchain
<slangasek>   * ttx, zul to target all the canonical-application-support MIRs to lucid, and milestone to alpha-2
<slangasek>   * slangasek to check on ld segfault on powerpc building qt4-x11 (DONE, but handed back to kubuntu team to figure out how to integrate the workaround...)
<ttx> slangasek: done
<asac> done
<slangasek> ttx: ta
<Riddell> qt4-x11 compiled on powerpc
<Riddell> thanks to slangasek for pointing us the way
<slangasek> ah, great!
<slangasek> piece of cake :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<fader_> Hi
<slangasek> fader_: how are we doing?
<fader_> * Hardware testing
<fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current
<fader_> Netbooks:
<fader_> 	passed:  7 (54%)   failed: 2 (15%)   untested: 4 (31%)
<fader_> Laptops:
<fader_> 	passed: 21 (80%)   failed: 3 (12%)   untested: 2 ( 8%)
<fader_> Servers:
<fader_> 	passed: 45 (87%)   failed: 0 ( 0%)   untested: 7 (13%)
<fader_> Desktops:
<fader_> 	passed: 12 (92%)   failed: 1 ( 8%)   untested: 0 ( 0%)
<fader_> Open bugs:
<fader_> bug 497546
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497546 in pulseaudio "Microphones not working on Dell Vostro 320" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497546
<fader_> bug 503700
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503700 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults on startup" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503700
<fader_> bug 504315
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504315 in hibernate "Toshiba NB100 failed to resume from hibernate" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504315
<fader_> We have several untested machines since the holidays, but they all appear to be for environmental reasons.
<fader_> I am working my way through them and getting them tested, but it is taking me a bit to get through the backlog of them.  They should be all done by next week.
<fader_> Specs:
<fader_> http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/report.html
<fader_> * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests
<fader_>         [cr3] Add DX PPA when testing and reboot if new packages are discovered: INPROGRESS
<fader_> * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-integrate-regression-testing
<fader_>         [cr3] fixed support for QRT-Packages from the qa regression testing suite; confirmed to work by sbeattie
<fader_> * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-kernel-test-automation
<fader_>         [cr3] Initial daily kernel tests running by Lucid Alpha1: INPROGRESS
<fader_> 	[cr3] The kernel tests (most of them) need sudo: INPROGRESS
<fader_> * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-iso-tracker
<fader_> 	There is one work item still to go, a pending merge, so ara has asked that this be defered to alpha-3.  The rest of the work items will be in production next week.
<fader_> * UbuntuSpec:qa-lucid-automated-server-testing
<fader_>          nightly builds of a set of server packages (in a PPA) that will show us if something regresses
<fader_>           sbeattie was trying to get some of the q-r-t tests running Checkbox, but had some issues with tests that wanted to run as root, which most (all?) of the server related ones did, so there's some Checkbox infrastructure work
<fader_> needed there.
<fader_> [end of massive text dump]
<pitti> fader_: so the netbook-launcher worked again?
<fader_> pitti: No, it is still not working as of yesterday
<fader_> I missed that in my open bugs, sorry
<pitti> fader_: should have been fixed today (bug 495066)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495066 in clutk "Lucid netbook-launcher segfaults when started" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495066
<fader_> pitti: I will re-test and make sure it's working now, thanks!
<pitti> I just wondered
 * asac uploaded it ;) 
<asac> fader_: thanks for testing.
 * pitti hugs asac
<asac> we couldnt verify because australia was already evening ;)
<fader_> asac: Yeah, I saw the update to it in my email this morning but I haven't run any tests on the netbooks yet today
<fader_> I believe you though, so it'll just be confirmation ;)
<slangasek> fader_: are these various "in progress" items going to be done on time for alpha-2, as the milestone targeting implies they should?
<fader_> slangasek: I don't know; cr3 might be able to answer for his items
<fader_> I will ping him
<fader_> (And ara's spec has been retargeted for alpha 3)
<cr3> fader_: kernel tests are definately targetted for alpha-2
<fader_> cr3: What about the lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests spec?
<fader_> [cr3] Add DX PPA when testing and reboot if new packages are discovered: INPROGRESS
<cr3> fader_: not sure, I'll need to follow up with the DX folks on that one
<slangasek> fader_: whic spec has been retargeted?  lucid-qa-iso-tracker is still targeted to alpha-2
<fader_> slangasek: Hmm, I was going based on what ara told me this morning that she had discussed it with marjo and he agreed to re-target it
<slangasek> cr3: please do that today, so that if it's not going to land it can be retargeted
<fader_> That's all the info I have; I know marjo is in training today so perhaps he has not updated lp because of that
<cr3> slangasek: will do
<slangasek> fader_: ok; will you follow up with marjo on this?
<fader_> slangasek: Will do
<slangasek> [ACTION] fader_ to check with marjo whether lucid-qa-iso-tracker is deferred to alpha-3, and re-target appropriately in LP
<MootBot> ACTION received:  fader_ to check with marjo whether lucid-qa-iso-tracker is deferred to alpha-3, and re-target appropriately in LP
<fader_> though it may be late in the day before I can get an answer, as he is incommunicado
 * ScottK waves
<slangasek> as a general note, we seem to be well above our burn lines in a lot of teams since the beginning of the year, which implies that a lot of these work items are not getting done before alpha-2; we need to make sure we're reviewing the status of what is or isn't getting deferred and document that in the status
<slangasek> s/document/documenting/
<slangasek> the charts aren't a very effective tool if they don't reflect what's actually going on in teams
<slangasek> any other concerns on qa?
<slangasek> bug #503700> I'm hopeful that this might be a manifestation of the other X bug that's in progress, but we'll cover that under desktop
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503700 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults on startup" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503700
<fader_> slangasek: Could be; I'm working on getting backtraces etc. for Bryce for it
<slangasek> I've been trying to get a good backtrace out of X in lucid for over a month now
<slangasek> (well, not fighting very hard, but apparently even working around the kernel bug doesn't do it)
<fader_> I feel your pain
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> fader_: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> on that note, yesterday's kernel finally fixed apport
<pitti> that should hopefully enable us to get better crash reports again
<pitti> apport itself is enabled since Wednesday or so
<pitti> I'll test it as soon as it lands in lucid
<pitti> As usual, our report is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> In the last two weeks we focused on:
<pitti> - Got A2 specs done (except for two WIs which only affect external projects, not Ubuntu itself)
<pitti> - More boot speed work
<pitti> - New GNOME version
<pitti> - New wave of DX integration yesterday and today
<pitti> No major changes planned for alpha-2 any more.
<pitti> Bug front is relatively quiet.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<jdstrand> (I just binary deNEWd 10.14)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<Riddell> on the Kubuntu side KDE 4.4 Release Candidate packages are now uploaded and building
<pitti> actually, the "two WIs left" is kind of a lie, which my new WI tracker just uncovered; we have three more for other teams (see http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-2.html)
<pitti> I'll have a look at them after the meeting
<jdstrand> (wrt new kernel hitting lucid)
<pitti> jdstrand: yay
<Riddell> we have three outstanding MIR bugs which are blocking where I'd like to be for alpha 2
<Riddell> I havn't caught up on must of the administrata since new year so spec and critical bug statuses I need to update next week
<pitti> bug 492931 just asks for enabling the test suite
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 492931 in libssh "MIR for libssh" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/492931
<pitti> so this could be pre-promoted already
<pitti> what are the other two?
<Riddell> virtuoso-opensource 503774
<Riddell> libdbusmenu-qt 504267
<asac> afaik libssh had security team concerns? not sure if we should pre-promote it with that.
<pitti> asac: pending test suite enablement, kees approved it
<asac> cool
<pitti> Riddell: please move those two to lucid/alpha-2, I'll have a look ASAP
<Riddell> ok thanks
<pitti> (need to unbreak my browser first before I can add release targets, sorry)
<asac> browser broken by todays update?
<pitti> asac: no, greasemonkey stuff in lp-firefox-improvements
<asac> good
<slangasek> I see from the report that bug #494627 is fixed as of 3h ago
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494627 in xorg-server "nv driver crashing with segmentation fault in libpthread.so.0" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494627
<slangasek> fader_: ^^ that's the bug that I think might be the master for the nvidia issue you're seeing; can you prioritize retesting the hardware that was affected, to confirm?
<fader_> slangasek: Will do; thanks
<fader_> It sounds similar as I believe the segfaults we were seeing were all on nv hardware
<slangasek> [ACTION] fader_ to verify whether 494627 == 503700 by re-testing affected hardware
<MootBot> ACTION received:  fader_ to verify whether 494627 == 503700 by re-testing affected hardware
<slangasek> fwiw, I've got a segfault-on-lid-close that I think is also the same bug, on intel
<slangasek> so I'll be eagerly retesting here :)
<slangasek> anything further to discuss on desktop?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell: thanks
<slangasek> davidbarth, njpatel: hello
<davidbarth> hi
<davidbarth> so DX was working this week on app. indicator mostly
<davidbarth> the status is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> of note
<davidbarth> app. indicator is mostly there and complete (as of planned for A2)
<davidbarth> we're getting a very positive feedback from the community, as well as a lot of help from the community team
<davidbarth> we're working on missing features that we'll land early in a3 (automatic updates and transparent fallback)
<slangasek> davidbarth: I see http://piware.de/workitems/dx/lucid-alpha2/report.html has been updated since yesterday, with items postponed as needed; are these postponed indefinitely, or do we now expect them to land later in the cycle?
<davidbarth> but they won't be in a2 for the freeze; ppa release
<davidbarth> yes, that's the other part of the report
<slangasek> ok, please continue :)
<davidbarth> a lot of other work items have been postponed
<davidbarth> that's not a great news, in that we expected to do a bit more (though not all); but it indicates that we over-commited a bit too much
<davidbarth> we assessed the situation with other managers and will be proposing a plan to adjust the scope to secure developments based on priorities
<davidbarth> last
<davidbarth> the session menu and the me menu have been split
<davidbarth> (sorry not last)
<slangasek> I guess the xsplash integration is going to hold up work on other teams for lucid, isn't it?  (boot performance / boot experience on foundations' side)
<davidbarth> and for gtk patches; we have the argb support mostly there (bratsche is fixing the totem crasher as we speak)
<davidbarth> but cs-deco is at risk
<slangasek> ok
<davidbarth> we couldn't get a review in time for gtk 2.20, so we're concerned that the distro-patch may be too big to carry for an LTS
<davidbarth> that's the summary
<davidbarth> questions? on particular points?
<davidbarth> xplash (sorry reading up the log)
<slangasek> I think that's my only question presently
<davidbarth> we can't release a plugin version right now, though we have a branch with scott's code; but no time to really make that work for a2
<davidbarth> i understand this is preventing the integration check
<slangasek> oh - I did also notice yesterday that there was a workitem assigned to canonical-foundations for dx-lucid-xsplash (again, the problem pitti mentioned in his mails about not seeing cross-team WI assignments) - have you guys talked to anyone specifically on foundations about doing this, or do we need to figure out on our side who can take it?
<slangasek> right, not for a2 - what about soon after a2?
<davidbarth> the security check, right
<davidbarth> yes, need to do that; that was not critical for a2, but needs to happen as part of the code review anyway
<davidbarth> i take the action of reviewing that list of assignements outside of dx and contact the right persons
<slangasek> [ACTION] davidbarth to review cross-team assignments for dx specs and contact right people
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidbarth to review cross-team assignments for dx specs and contact right people
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> anything else to discuss on DX today?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks much
<slangasek> asac: hello
<asac> hi
<asac> summary:
<asac>  * 2d-launcher archive uploads/MIRs
<asac>   * MIR concerns/maybe pre-promote
<asac>  * uboot imx51 work
<asac>   * generally works, issues with .img partitioning under investigation
<asac>  * marvel/fsl kernel update preparations for a2
<asac>   * verified, pending upload.
<asac>  * armel-only ftbfs for main
<asac>   * almost on top
<asac>  * lsb-lib porting
<asac>   * required bits are ported; next packaging/deployment
<asac>  * chromium porting/license review
<asac>   * chromium runtime issues resolved
<asac>   * licensing in reasonably good shape.
<asac>  * getting a2 burndown in better shape
<asac>   * down to trendline again.
<asac> [LINK]  * getting a2 burndown in better shape * down to trendline again.
<MootBot> LINK received:   * getting a2 burndown in better shape * down to trendline again.
<asac> oops
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> [LINK] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<asac> so on RC bug front we made good progress
<asac> some kernel related issues not yet understood, but thats still ok at this point.. expecially since we will get a new one
<asac> on spec front:
<asac> burndown chart for alpha-2 looks quite good now after we catched up the holiday backlog
<asac> the overall burndown is above, but we will address that when reviewing a3 goals
 * slangasek nods
<asac> some specs will land shortly after a2
<asac> * mobile-lucid-arm-gcc-v7-thumb2: most ftbfs issues resolved; review work items will get done at a2; rebuild of missing packages during a3
<asac> so that was basically never planned to be finished for alpha2 ... as the rebuild etc. was ment to happen around DIF
<slangasek> right
<asac> * mobile-lucid-une-2d-launcher: blocked on MIR and seeding
<asac> we hope we can address the mir issues for a2 still
<asac> at least to a point where we can pre-promote
<asac> but unlikely that the switch to UNE seed will happen for the a2 image. but right afterwards
<slangasek> the MIRs themselves don't seem to be linked from the blueprint? (and therefore don't show up on the WI tracker)
<slangasek> could you link them?
<asac> hmm. i can check that
<asac> action?
<slangasek> [ACTION] asac to link une-2d-launcher MIRs from blueprint
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to link une-2d-launcher MIRs from blueprint
<asac> thx
<asac> * mobile-lucid-imx51-debian-cd-to-uboot: issues with partitioning -> unlikely to make a2
<asac> ogra is investigating
<ogra> but the having the MIR processed soon would be nice :)
 * slangasek nods
<asac> unfortunately i toasted my board while working on that, but i still hope that this will happen soon
<asac> [ACTION] asac to link MIR for uboot to spec
<asac> * mobile-lucid-bringup-testing: 2 work items will slip into a3 cycle
<asac> thats not archive related, so its ok i thin. its basically figuring out how to extract some system information we want to include
<slangasek> [ACTION] asac to link MIR for uboot to spec
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to link MIR for uboot to spec
<asac> might be that its not possible and those work items get postponed
 * asac feels underpowered :)
<asac> * mobile-lucid-arm-lightweightbrowser: benchmark/review/archive upload pending
<asac> chromium porting to arm took longer, as it takes like 16h to build :) ... but we are at it and doing the benchmarking etc. now
<asac> so its good. also the licensing was hard work, but i think we are in good shape :)
<slangasek> I see the benchmarking is assigned to dave-martin-arm - are you in communication with him about that, and do you expect that to happen soon?
<asac> http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/copyright.full if someone is interested
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/copyright.full if someone is interested
<slangasek> benchmarking etc. now> ah, ok
<ogra> he attends each of our meetings
<asac> slangasek: yes. arm has internal tools
<ogra> so there is close communication
<asac> it was blocked by not having firefox/chromium
 * slangasek nods
<asac> but both is now resolved, so the last few items will get done swiftly... then decision and seed inclusion
<asac>  * mobile-lucid-arm-lib-tests: late; porting done; reassigned packaging, deployment and execution to team to help out.
<asac> we had to shuffle assignments in team a bit ... this will get on track soon
<slangasek> I see there's a workitem assigned to mcasadevall for adding arm images to the ISO tracker, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't have access to do - should that be reassigned to me or to someone on QA?
<asac> we need it for the thumb2 spec ... so around DIF
<slangasek> or is there groundwork he's doing there first?
<ogra> its just about him taking care of contacting you guys
<asac> slangasek: the assignment basically means that he should take care of it, but if you want to take that item directly i would be happy
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to claim "adding ARM alternate images to the ISO tracker"
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to claim "adding ARM alternate images to the ISO tracker"
<asac> slangasek: according to him alternate images are finished. just needs to get produced and verified
<asac> thanks i will assign that work item to you (if there is a matching one)
<asac> the others are fortunately done
<slangasek> "produced" - so they're not in the cronjob yet?
<ogra> slangasek, they are ... since jaunty
<slangasek> ok
<asac> i dont know abut the details, but i think so
<ogra> we never had them on the tracker
<asac> they were broken for two cycles, so i guess not
<slangasek> let's take any further discussion of that offline, meeting's running a bit behind
<slangasek> anything else on the mobile front that needs covered?
<JamieBennett> MIR's linked to 2D Launcher blueprint now - https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-une-2d-launcher
<asac> yes. so only risky thing for a2 is: * new upstream/fsl kernel for imx51 and dove
<asac> thats it
<asac> but we verified those kernels already today
<asac> so they should be good
<slangasek> ok
<asac> if upload doesnt happen on monday we have to push that after a2
<ogra> imx kernel looks pretty awesome, i dont expect issues
<ogra> (kudos to the kernel team !)
<asac> yep
<slangasek> please keep #ubuntu-release in the loop regarding any problems that do turn up there
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<ttx> o/
<asac> thanks!
<slangasek> asac, ogra: thanks
<slangasek> ttx: hiya
<ogra> thanks !
<ttx> Team status updated at:
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Weekly news: The server team was very busy this week (and still is) trying to complete all alpha-2 blueprints in time
<ttx> We expect to finalize the work items affecting the Server ISO by Monday, in time for the soft freeze
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Work affecting the Alpha2 cloud images is expected to land by Tuesday
<ttx> Some MIR/promotion/demotion work (canonical-application-support, seeds) might also land on Tuesday
<ttx> Others, like UEC testing, do not result in any alpha2 deliverable and still have until Thursday to be completed
<ttx> On the Alpha2-milestoned bugs front:
<ttx> Bug 462169 might need some retargeting ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462169 in samba "nmbd dies on startup when network interfaces are not up yet" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462169
<ttx> slangasek: ^ ?
<slangasek> "Establish access to central hardware when available"> I'm not surprised to see that workitem isn't done, given that it's a WI at all because we've had problems there in the past... is more escalation needed to make that happen?
<slangasek> ttx: oh, I have that listed under foundations ;)  Yes, I'll have that fixed beginning of next week
<ttx> Other bugs account for work items in the blueprints, we'll see them in detail next
<ttx> we expect access to hardware on Thursday :)
<jiboumans> slangasek: that is targeted for the 14th by IS
<slangasek> jiboumans: great, thanks
<ttx> Let's look at alpha2-targeted blueprints in detail, now:
<jiboumans> slangasek: our alpha3 goals include *using* it :)
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-canonical-application-support
<ttx> 89% completed, on track, still misses some MIR review:
<ttx> bug 493594: MIR for pastedeploy (zul) -- still needs MIR assignee/review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493594 in pastedeploy "MIR for pastedeploy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493594
<ttx> the others have been reviewed and in good shape
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-ec2-boothooks
<ttx> 57% completed, met some unexpected behavior with upstart/EC2, only 6 work items left, should be in time for alpha2 cloud images
<ttx> this one is the most in danger, but we still think we can complete it
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-ec2-config
<ttx> 50% completed, expected to be at 80% by the end of the day, on track for alpha2 cloud images
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-euca-remote-autoregister
<ttx> Work items for alpha2 completed. Some bugfixes and security improvements expected in alpha3.
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-eucalyptus-karmic-retrospective
<ttx> 92% completed, last item depends on IS delivery
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-landscape-refresh
<ttx> All work items completed
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-seeds
<ttx> 69% completed, still pending some discussion, end on Monday
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-uec-testing
<ttx> 62% completed, on track, can be completed next week (we have until Thursday for this one)
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-cloud-krd
<slangasek> I note "irqbalance - add to the default install" is targeted to a2; I'd suggest deferring that to a3 explicitly, I think the discussion that should happen before it's enabled by default is going to run longer than our window
<ttx> slangasek: good point
<ttx> please action me
<slangasek> [ACTION] ttx to target "irqbalance - add to the default install" to a3
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to target "irqbalance - add to the default install" to a3
<ttx> 89% completed. I just learned that the last item (dependent on kernel team) won't get into alpha2
<ttx> bug 494565
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494565 in linux "support ramdiskless boot for relavant kvm drive interfaces in -virtual" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494565
<ttx> This is mostly optional, useful for testing
<ttx> so we'll probably have to defer that one as well.
 * slangasek nods
<ttx> Note that the feature is currently buggy due to a mountall issue, bug 503212
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503212 in mountall "mountall crashed with SIGSEGV in main() without initramfs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503212
<ttx> It would be great to have this one fixed
<ttx> I nominated it for alpha2, but there is no assignee yet
<ttx> foundations team, anyone ? :)
<slangasek> assigned to self
<ttx> many thanks
<ttx> finally, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-euca2ools
<ttx> All alpha2work items completed
<ttx> burndownchart-wise, We should hit the line atthe end of the day
<slangasek> and then tomorrow the line will move ;)
<ttx> if nobody has been lying to me
<slangasek> but yes, looks good
<ttx> Alpha3 planning work started this week, more on that... next week.
<slangasek> ack
<slangasek> anyone else have anything to bring up with the server team?
<jiboumans> all clear here
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> ttx, jiboumans: thanks
<slangasek> apw: hi
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Overall we are doing pretty well with only a small number of items being pushed out to Alpha-3, see the second link for an Alpha-2 summary.  We are still below the burndown line despite the holidays.
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-2
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-2
<apw> AppArmour is looking better with the alpha-2 deliverables expected to make it.  Boot performance is pretty good at ~1.6s with some variablilty updates just hitting the archive.  KMS progress is a good for ATI with a number of fixes for radeon coming in, nouveau is a little slow with us hoping to have a package for very early Alpha-3.  The rest of our Alpha-2 deliverables either are on track or have been pushed out to Alpha-2.  We may have to uplo
<apw> ad the kernel once more to fix an Alpha-2 targetted bug (bug #488636).  The kernel is currently at 2.6.32.2 and we have a 2.6.32.3 update to apply as soon as the Alpha-2 freeze is lifted.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488636 in linux "b43 has invalid "firmware:" field" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488636
<slangasek> sounds good to me
<slangasek> anything else?
<apw> nothing from me
<slangasek> questions from others on kernel?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> We've had to postpone lower priority items, and are making progress on higher priority ones.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> A bug worth mentioning is: bug #503869. This bug slows down profile cache generation significantly under some circumstances and affects progress on security-lucid-apparmor-tunables.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503869 in apparmor "multiple HOMEDIRS tunable entries can exponentially increase profile loading time" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503869
<jdstrand> A profile's cache is regenerated whenever a package that ships a profile is upgraded (eg, 503869 was noticed due to a slow evince upgrade). Specifically, we needed to revert the apparmor change for likewise-open in bug #274350.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274350 in likewise-open "apparmor HOMEDIRS not adjusted for likewise" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274350
<jdstrand> This should be improved by jjohansen's current dfa minimization work once it lands.
<jdstrand> apparmor in Lucid now has support for tunables/home.d (part of the same spec), so the current plan is to have likewise-open ship its own tunable, this way only likewise-open users will be affected by slow profile generation until the dfa work is done.
<jdstrand> Another part of that spec is to detect user's home directory and dynamically generate the HOMEDIRS tunable. This will also affect profile cache generation times, but not nearly as much as the likewise-open tunable, which uses a glob in the tunable.
<jdstrand> still trying to get that part in for alpha-2, but may be alpha-3
<jdstrand> on a related note, kees is following up on profile cache generation at the end of the installer, so that first boot is not affected by any of this.
<ev> we've actually just resolved that an hour ago.  We're reverting the apparmor=0 change to the live CD and kees has already uploaded a new apparmor and ifupdown to detect the live CD in the init scripts.  I'll add the profile cache generation to the end of the install on Monday.
<slangasek> great
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anyone else have questions for security?
<slangasek> [LINK] Foundations Team
<MootBot> LINK received:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> sure :)
<slangasek> ev: hello
<ev> slangasek: hi
<ev> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<ev> [LINK] http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid-alpha2/report.html
<mdz> slangasek: I have two brief items for the foundations team, if I may (at the end)
<ev> We're looking good for alpha-2.
<ev> foundations-lucid-boot-experience is done on our end.
<ev> Riddell: did you get "no root" support into KDM?
<ev> foundations-lucid-boot-recovery: mvo is going to do the last two items on Monday.
<slangasek> mdz: certainly
<ev> foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update:
<ev> I suspect "Replace "Safe graphics mode" with bullet-proof X, with automatic VESA fallback" will not land for alpha-2, but I'll confirm with cjwatson as I intend to work on that area as well for an oem-config specification.
<ev> davidbarth: I take it the installer gdm greeter will need to be deferred, correct?
<ev> I believe Michael Forrest has looked over the new "try ubuntu without installing" string, but I'll send him a mail asking him to close the work item or follow up with cjwatson.
<ev> I'm trying to reproduce bug 495012 now, and have assigned it to myself.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495012 in ubiquity "Kubuntu OEM install hangs up on boot" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495012
<ev> [LINK] http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid/report.html
<ev> We were doing fine leading up to the holidays, but I imagine we may end up having to defer some things.  I'll raise it at the next team meeting.
<ev> and that's it from me
<davidbarth> ev: unfortunately yes, it won't ready today or even monday
<ev> davidbarth: okay, thanks
<slangasek> is there an action for the above?  I don't see "gdm greeter" anywhere in the workitems
<slangasek> oh, "develop a greeter offering..."?
<ev> indeed
<slangasek> ev: you'll retarget?
<ev> slangasek: sure
<slangasek> [ACTION] ev to retarget foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update greeter to alpha-3
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ev to retarget foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update greeter to alpha-3
<slangasek> ev: anything else?
<ev> nope
<slangasek> mdz: you had a couple of things?
<mdz> slangasek: I just filed bug 504847 about a cron crash, which (although no one else had seen it when I asked) looks like it is not specific to me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504847 in eglibc "cron crashed with SIGSEGV in _init() after libc6/NSS upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504847
<mdz> it looks like cron should have been restarted after a recent glibc upgrade, but wasn't
<slangasek> oh, indeed; I caught a whiff of that earlier, thanks for jogging my memory
<mdz> slangasek: I subscribed you to the bug because I couldn't figure out how to make it public
<mdz> I found a workaround and made it public, but can't unsubscribe you, so sorry for the spam
<slangasek> no problem, I'll probably go ahead and work that bug today anyway
<mdz> #2 is, while I was there, I noticed there seemed to be a stack of untriaged bugs on cron, including some other crashes which looked potentially related
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cron
<slangasek> in fact, cron is crashing here for me even after a reboot
<mdz> slangasek: hmm, restarting fixed it for me on 1 of the 2 systems where I saw that bug
<mdz> (I haven't tried the other yet)
<mdz> (restarting cron, that is)
<mdz> Keybuk seems to be the bug contact
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to do some triaging of cron bug reports
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to do some triaging of cron bug reports
<slangasek> I think Keybuk probably has his hands full right now
<slangasek> mdz: thanks for bringing this to our attention
<mdz> slangasek: np, thanks for checking into it
<mdz> that's all from me
<slangasek> anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK had to jet, but gave me a brief summary, which I'll dump in
<slangasek> <ScottK> Nothing major to report on MOTU.  FTBFS numbers are improving.  The volunteer for the rebuildable binaries spec is working on it, but he got sick/had to have surgery so we're slightly delayed.  Expect to have that done before Alpha 3.
<slangasek> any other concerns on MOTU?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else at all? :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:29.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<pitti> thanks all
<ev> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-01-09
<HFSPLUS> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<Yos> good night all
<sivang> hi all
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-01-10
<jussi01> o/
<TheMuso> And so far, looks like we won't have enough for a meeting.
 * TheMuso reads the agenda.
<jussi01>  got a link to that?
<knome> hey jussi01
<knome> what meeting is this?
<knome> ;)=
<jussi01> ubuntu studio
<TheMuso> jussi01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010Jan10
<knome> okay
<jussi01> TheMuso: who are we waiting on?
<TheMuso> jussi01: stochastic I think, since he sent out eh reminder etc. I don't remember him saing that he couldn't make it.
<TheMuso> And if luisbg is around, it would be great to have him along also.
<jussi01> yea
 * jussi01 has pinged them, so hopefully they arrive soon
<TheMuso> Well I think this is a no go.
<TheMuso> c
<ScottL> anyone here for ubuntu studio meeting?
<knome> ScottL, they decided not to keep it (jussi01+TheMuso)
<ScottL> knome, thanks
<knome> np. have a nice day!
<raevol> hello all
<SiDi> Hi
<j1mc> hi SiDi and raevol
<lmn> Hi :)
 * charlie-tca waves
<j1mc> ready to start the meeting?
<lmn> Aye
<knome> sure
<j1mc> any ubuntu meeting bot experts here?
<knome> who's gonna be the chair?
<j1mc> cody-somerville: you ready?
<SiDi> knome: you will :D
<knome> SiDi, gah
<knome> don't want to
<lmn> I also nominate knome.
<knome> !help
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<knome> meh
<czajkowski> /c/c
<charlie-tca> Well, that worked
 * knome has to check out the bot stuff.
<knome> just a moment
<knome> make yourself comfortable
<j1mc> let's get started w/ taking about governance.  knome - if cody only has 10 minutes, we should get started w/o the meeting bot.
<j1mc> we'll get the logs
<knome> and please fill the other chairs from the beginning
<knome> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:02. The chair is knome.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<knome> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Governance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu Governance
<j1mc> here's the wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu%20Governance%20&%20Team%20Structure
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu%20Governance%20&%20Team%20Structure
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu%20Governance%20&%20Team%20Structure
<j1mc> did anyone have any comments based on reading it?
<lmn> Other than agreement?
<j1mc> lmn: correct
<cody-somerville> Reading it again... do we need to even change it?
<lmn> Then no.
<cody-somerville> It seems to be provide the necessary authority to form a council already.
<knome> cody-somerville, i think we only need to append/modify the council part of ir
<knome> *it
<cody-somerville> knome, ^^
<j1mc> well, depending on what approach we take (team lead vs. council approach) certain items would need to be changed
<j1mc> for example, "The Xubuntu council is a small group of people who have been designated as "movers and shakers" by the Xubuntu project lead"
<j1mc> i would lthink that this would need to be changed to something like, "xubuntu contributors and xubuntu developers"
<SiDi> I agree w/ what's there
<lmn> SiDi: Yes, but j1mc's point is right - the point is to be without a "lead" - correct?
<knome> well personally i think that even if we had a leader, we should move a bit towards less-authoritarian leader.
<cody-somerville> I don't think we have that now.
<cody-somerville> Maybe the leader should take more of a back seat though.
<SiDi> I think a lead is needed only when two people definitely disagree and begin to misbehave
<lmn> knome: You mean a face without veto power?
<knome> cody-somerville, that's what i meant
<SiDi> and this can be the role of the ubuntu community council
<cody-somerville> Maybe mr_pouit will provide that?
<j1mc> is mr_pouit willing to be project lead for lucid?
<cody-somerville> What I really want to avoid is voting
<cody-somerville> j1mc, yes
<cody-somerville> Instead, I think consensus is much more favorable to voting.
<knome> SiDi, even if it's two people disagree, i don't know if it's directly a place for the leader. if we have the council, the council can/should sort stuff out, if possible
<mr_pouit> aren't people supposed to accept the decisions of the council? ;)
<j1mc> cody-somerville: he confirmed that in #xubuntu-devel?
<SiDi> i think we need leads per field of expertise, and decisions that affect several fields or that affect the overall direction of xubuntu should be decided by all the team leads
<lmn> mr_pouit: That would be my understanding..
<lmn> Majority rules, aye?
<cody-somerville> No, majority doesn't rule
<knome> cody-somerville, finding a consensus is kind of voting anyway
<cody-somerville> Ubuntu has never been like this
<lmn> When it comes to council it should.
<cody-somerville> knome, voting is binary, yes or no. Consensus not so much.
<cody-somerville> knome, there can be varying levels of consensus
<SiDi> knome: consensus is implicit and means issues got sorted out, vote is explicit and means some issues are being disregarded  because people want to force a consensus
<cody-somerville> I also disagree that "experts" should have full control of their area
<lmn> Well, 9 times out of 10 something is either right or wrong and should be addressed as such..
<knome> consensus doesn't mean no issues are disregarded.
<j1mc> i think that people should be consulted before their "area" is changed by others, though.
<cody-somerville> I think the people doing the work should have the authority to make decisions
<cody-somerville> (except for artwork :P)
<knome> cody-somerville, not full control, but if you want to think in binary, i think the expert should have more power than 1.
<SiDi> cody-somerville: :P
<knome> cody-somerville, i quit.
<cody-somerville> who decides who experts are?
<knome> :P
<SiDi> knome: what is more than 1 in binary?
<SiDi> 10?
<cody-somerville> knome, lots of artwork people willing to contribute ::P
<knome> cody-somerville, aren't that decided when team leaders are appointed
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, thats all I wanted to say
<SiDi> cody-somerville: by expert i mean people who have the most background on contributing to xubuntu in this field
<lmn> knome: But wouldn't that introduce more complexity than needed? That concept is used in the Democratic party in America with "super delegates".
<knome> cody-somerville, well, i haven't seen anybody ACTING yet.
<SiDi> sorry for that word, it was badly chosen
<cody-somerville> knome, agreed. which is why I tolerate you :P
 * cody-somerville nudges knome 
<cody-somerville> just joking, love you Pasi
 * knome farts
<knome> :P
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, I must be going now.
<j1mc> heh
<knome> sure. i love you too
<SiDi> lmn: I dont think we need to use the same systems as political parties :P
<knome> see you cody-somerville
<j1mc> cody-somerville: have a good afternoon
<lmn> So would the system be if you're an "expert" that you automatically get 2 votes?
<knome> lmn, no.
<j1mc> thanks for making the time to be here
<lmn> Then how are we going to weight the opinion of an "expert"?
<SiDi> There is no such thing as vote
<cody-somerville> (experts are recognized w/o appointment)
<j1mc> mr_pouit: did you confirm that you'd be willing to be project lead for lucid?
<cody-somerville> (they are experts because they just are)
<knome> but if we are talking about about documentation, for example, i think jim's voice should weigh more that, for example, mine.
<SiDi> I think there is no need to weight opinions as long as everyone involved is conscious that some people may be more likely to take the good decision in a given field
<charlie-tca> but who decides who the expert is?
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, each individual person
 * lmn agrees with charlie
<mr_pouit> j1mc: yes, if there's no other choice, I can do it until the council is fully functional
<knome> expert is probably a wrong word.
 * cody-somerville is gone.
<Sysi> don't opinions weight themselfs trough people?
<knome> jim leads the doc team. so he is responsible for getting good results on the doc front.
<j1mc> i think we're a small enough group to know who the recognized "subject matter experts" are without formalizing what qualifies as an "expert."
<SiDi> charlie-tca: i think we can each think on our own who we consider to be experts in their fields
<j1mc> perhaps with the exception of artwork
<lmn> It's becoming very clear we didn't discuss this well enough on the mailing list..
<cody-somerville> hehe
<SiDi> knome: expert is a wrong word. I use it for lack of a better one in my vocabulary :D
<knome> j1mc, ugh? was there some kind of pn intended once again? :P
<j1mc> SiDi: "team-lead"?
<knome> i hate to talk about artwork all the time, BUT
<j1mc> i don't want us to get bogged-down with semantics
<raevol> can i ask a noob question? what does "artwork" consist of?
<Sysi> people agree with people that they consider as experts, so they don't expecially need to have more weighed vote
<j1mc> the important thing (to me) is that people's voices are heard with regard to important xubuntu-related decisions
<knome> if i am the marketing (+artwork) lead, i suppose it does make a difference if i disagree with somebody
<SiDi> raevol: it consists of the look and feel of Xubuntu and its marketing materials
<lmn> raevol: Basically anything that's themeable.
<j1mc> in cases of disagreement, we need to be able to sort things out in a way that doesn't bog down the distribution
<knome> artwork is always subjective to taste, and we have to take SOME path.
<raevol> is it a short list of things? desktop/gdm/bootsplash/window manager/gtk? or a lot more?
<lmn> knome: Yeah, I wanted to talk with you about some artwork *ducks*
<knome> in the past i haven't proposed anything totally silly (except for laughs)
 * SiDi proposes artwork specific discussions occur after the governance topic
<j1mc> raevol: knome lmn ... can we sort out the governance stuff first?
<knome> i remember a few situations where me and cody disagreed on some silly things
<raevol> sorry
<lmn> j1mc: Absolutely.
<knome> (j1mc, i'm getting to that)
<j1mc> knome: ok - if you need to talk about artwork to express a gov. issue... :)
<j1mc> go ahead.  :)
<knome> so in these situations, shouldn't my opinion weigh more? especially if the rest of the dev community agrees with me?
<knome> why should the project leader have a VETO vote in a situation like this?
<knome> "well i don't like that, let's throw it in the bin"
<j1mc> knome: i agree.  how do we sort out such issues?
<j1mc> perhaps... if project lead and other team member disagree...
<knome> well if in the new governance we have the council
<lmn> Well, a majority of the council should be able to over-ride a veto.
<j1mc> it comes out to the xubuntu [insert group name here] for a vote?
<knome> maybe we should find a consensus between the members
<knome> not just asking the leaders opinion and blindly go forward with that
<j1mc> s/vote/consensus
<lmn> The council should have checks and balances so that no one branch is more powerful than any other.
<lmn> E.g. leaders and etc.
<Sysi> too much byrocracy kills all development
<lmn> Yes but not enough kills creativity.
<knome> Sysi, a veto possibility kills everything.
<Sysi> true
<SiDi> Would it be reasonable to say that when there is a disagreement that can't be solved on a particular issue, a vote occurs, and voters are the council + the regular members of the team responsible of the feature/field on which the disagreement occurs?
<knome> [AGREED] Lionel will act as a temporary project leader until a council is formed.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Lionel will act as a temporary project leader until a council is formed.
<lmn> SiDi: Exactly my thoughts.
<SiDi> (with a max weight for the votes of the regular members to avoid them to outnumber the council)
<mr_pouit> A council of ~5 people shouldn't kill anything, if people don't ask for it to decide something every hour.
<knome> mr_pouit, i definitely do not want everything go through the council
<mr_pouit> clearly
<lmn> mr_pouit: Well the point is a person of 1 shouldn't be able to kill something without any way to repeal.
<knome> there has been numerous of decisions in the two last cycles which are done without too much bureaucracy and i think that's totally fine
<charlie-tca> Sidi hit it right on the head
<lmn> Agreed.
<cody-somerville> lmn, The community council is the elevation
<Sysi> i just meant that in some point needs to make decisions
<j1mc> SiDi: could you explain what you mean with "with a max weight..."
<cody-somerville> SiDi, ^^
<cody-somerville> Thats just all way to complicated SiDi
<lmn> Is it?
<cody-somerville> Yes it is
<cody-somerville> We escalate to CC if we're not happy with Xubuntu council/project lead decision.
<cody-somerville> and if that happens, you better have a good reason if you don't want to look foolish in front of them.
<SiDi> Hm, okey
<raevol> the council could exist to make decisions on issues that are causing disagreement? if there's no disagreement there's no need to put it by the council?
<raevol> err, yea what was just said
<knome> cody-somerville, so basically, if the disagreement was about a silly thing, the leader could overrule any developer anyway?
<mr_pouit> (unless it's on a technical matter, where the cc is useless)
<lmn> mr_pouit: Agreed.
<cody-somerville> In that case, we go to TB: )
<SiDi> j1mc: meant that for instance the team members' vote counts for 25% of the final vote, or something like that, to make sure the decision belongs to the council, but the team members still have a word to say when it comes to something they work on
<cody-somerville> knome, if you can build up a case that the leader does that often, that wouldn't be a silly problem
<cody-somerville> It would be a huge problem
<cody-somerville> It would be a clear case of micro management
 * cody-somerville is gone again.
 * charlie-tca agrees
 * lmn also agrees
<knome> agree as well.
<charlie-tca> any micro manager as team leader should wind up in front of the cc
<knome> maybe we should talk about what the team EXPECTS from the team leaders
<lmn> That's a good question.
<knome> if i'm the marketing lead, do people expect me to handle and lead marketing and make some decisions and manage a big picture of it?
<knome> or just produce marketing material?
<lmn> knome: I'd say at least be the "idea man".
<j1mc> to do work, to provide direction for their portion of the project, to recruit and assist others who contribute to the project
<lmn> What's the point in being a team lead if you're not going to have a strong idea for where you want to be and go.
<lmn> It seems j1mc and I are on the same page with this.
<knome> j1mc, okay, so doesn't the team leader have a bigger weight about his own area, if he is supposed to direct the team?
<j1mc> i would say yes, unless you want me directing artwork.  ... of course what you suggest makes sense. :)
<knome> j1mc, how can anybody direct a team if his decisions are not appreciated or they are overruled by project leader?
<mr_pouit> (you can say that he has more experience on his topic, so it's easier to convince other people ;)
<mr_pouit> (he/she, of course)
<j1mc> in what cases should a project leader be able to overrule the team leader?
<knome> this also concerns the documentation team and i'm so happy you, jim, are taking care of it, even if somebody might disagree.
<j1mc> or in what cases should the project leader be able to overrule the team leader?
<j1mc> that's what i meant to ask.
<SiDi> j1mc: i'd say exclusvely when the majority of the council disagrees with the team lead, and when the people in the team also disagree with each other
<knome> COMPACTLY: i know you know better.
<lmn> j1mc: I'd say the project leader should organize a vote at that point, if it's necessary.
<SiDi> ie. when the team leads acts on his/her own w/ nobody agreeing
<charlie-tca> If the team leader is not the one to make the final decision on what's best for a team, what is he?
<lmn> An organizer, basically.
<knome> charlie-tca, well aren't we suggesting a governance with a council
<knome> first go to council
<knome> if council can't have consensus even what they do, ask the leader
<lmn> The project leader should be the one managing the way things move, not deciding how they move, if that makes sense.
<knome> if one guy disagrees in the council (even if he was the project leader) i don't think it should "break" the thing at that point.
<knome> the council would probably find a consensus by theirselves if only one disagrees.
<knome> if they really can't find a consensus, then i think the project leader definitely should have his voice heard.
<knome> and in the end, make the decision
<cody-somerville> The project leader isn't a project manager
<cody-somerville> also, if there is a council, I feel the project leader should sit on it
<knome> cody-somerville, of course
<cody-somerville> and maybe even be the chairman (ie. tie breaker)
 * j1mc agrees
<lmn> I'll agree with that.
 * j1mc agrees w/ the sitting on the council part
 * charlie-tca agrees too
<knome> cody-somerville, exactly. but in a non-tie situation he should just be one of the members.
<j1mc> tiebreaker, too
<cody-somerville> knome, agreed.
<knome> i don't see we are going to have a lot of need for tie-breakers, really
<charlie-tca> just a member or a non-voting member except in ties
<SiDi> I think the tiebreaker should be the most relevant team lead for the thing involved
<knome> even if we have disagreed, it's mostly being either me or you (cody) disagreeing the rest ;)
<lmn> knome: Failsafes are rarely used, but when they are, you're glad they're there.
 * cody-somerville is gone again.
<knome> maybe the team leader and the project leader should be the tiebreakers.
<knome> and if they disagree, project leader is the tiebreaker.
<knome> what do you think of that?
<cody-somerville> Lets get rid of team leaders
<charlie-tca> can't have two tiebreakers. That creates more issues.
<cody-somerville> let the teams organize themselves
<cody-somerville> just an idea
 * cody-somerville is really gone now.
<knome> cody-somerville, tbh, the teams usually consist of one or two people
<knome> cody-somerville, the marketing+artwork team is knome.
<knome> atm
<lmn> Well, knome - as I've mentioned on the mailing list I have wordpress experience..
<lmn> just throwing that out there
<knome> lmn, yes.
<SiDi> knome: eeew, evil you
<SiDi> i'm in the art team
<knome> but in the past, even if there were people interested in contributing
<SiDi> and im not a knome
<knome> they rarely have contributed
<knome> SiDi, yes you are. just generalizing :P
<knome> so that leaves me still being on my own in the marketing team
<SiDi> I agree that we could trash the team leaders. But then we need to ensure each team is represented by at least a council member
<j1mc> SiDi: that makes sense
<j1mc> assuming we don't have 12 teams
<charlie-tca> yup
<knome> what about my suggestion in cutting the teams down to four?
<charlie-tca> Council gets much bigger than about 5 for us, we are in trouble
<j1mc> charlie-tca: i agree
<SiDi> j1mc: a council member could be in several teams
<j1mc> yes
<SiDi> and the creation of new teams would require agreement of the council + dedication of a member
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2009-December/007225.html
<knome> charlie-tca, won't get bigger than 5. we barely have more contributors than five >:|
<j1mc> in the current structure, there's contributors, documentors (which includes the website group... which i don't often think about), developers, council & project lead
<knome> no, there's no council
<knome> it's in the strategy document, but none has been formed yet.
<j1mc> it's in the current governance doc
<knome> the council is project leader.
<knome> as for now.
<j1mc> ok
<SiDi> I think we can leave to Council, Contributors, Users
<knome> we DO have a core developer group
<knome> or contributor, to be more exact
<charlie-tca> yes, and developers should be involved
<knome> charlie-tca, developers are contributors.
<knome> if we split contributors into contributors and developers, that somewhat makes me feel that the people working with code are somewhat more important than the ones doing documentation or qa.
<j1mc> developers and contributors should be part of the council... with the aim (but not requirement?) of having the council made up of "core functional areas" of the project... ?
<SiDi> i agree to have a single group for devs + contributors
<knome> which they kind of are, but should not be in the governance thing
<SiDi> especially considering that the majority of the work is not related to code in Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> without the developers, you have nothing
<SiDi> charlie-tca: and the developers are the GNOME + XFCE + Ubuntu + Kernel + Xorg + w/e ones
<j1mc> knome: i think it may draw in more "developers" if we have a separate group... a mkting tool?
<knome> charlie-tca, that's true. but really, a QA guy is not less important when it comes down to governance.
<SiDi> Who writes code in Xubuntu? Cody, Lionel and I write patches, thats all
<knome> j1mc, i think that has worked against us, really
<SiDi> +1 knome
<knome> j1mc, (having a separate dev group)
<lmn> SiDi: How many patches and repackaging usually go into a single release?
<charlie-tca> I agree. Developers are the only group that is required by the distribution
<SiDi> charlie-tca: your opinion, the one of knome and j1mc, the one of vincent, and anyone willing to seriously contribute weights just as much as the one of those whow rite the code
<SiDi> lmn: cant say, i've only worked on a single release cycle
<knome> charlie-tca, ^ +1 billion for SiDi
<SiDi> but i wrote more than 50 patches
<lmn> Hm, fair enough.
<knome> charlie-tca, that's what i meant. i didn't mean that developers are not in a special status. they sure are. (thanks cody and lionel)
<j1mc> i wouldn't want to "weight" someone's opinion
<knome> (and steve)
<SiDi> charlie-tca: i dont think there can be a distro only with developers
<SiDi> devs often dont see the shortcomings of their own work without support teams to fetch feedback from users
<knome> j1mc, that was just justifying that even developers should be counted as "contributors", not a separate group
<charlie-tca> Of course there can, that is what started xubuntu
<knome> charlie-tca, tbh, i don't think it would have lasted long if there wasn't somebody who was interested in something else than development
<j1mc> knome: i think part of the "developers" is that there is a separate lp group... which gives certain permissions?  i think it also recognizes them a bit more.
<j1mc> knome: i think we disagree on this a bit, but that's ok
<knome> j1mc, i agree with developers having certain permissions.
<SiDi> Of course devs can start a distro as long as they also know a bit about system administration and packaging
<knome> j1mc, but i don't agree one developer being any more important in the council than one "contributor"
<SiDi> but a good distro also needs a documentation and support team
<j1mc> knome: i agree w/ you on tha tpoint
<SiDi> + some designer effort for the desktop settings
<knome> j1mc, also, there would be no idea in letting me have push rights to universe. i'd just mess everything up.
<knome> j1mc, developers need special permissions to be able to do their part.
<j1mc> knome: +1 billion.  every app would have a special "unicorn" button if it were up to you.
<knome> j1mc, ...and a pink kitten
<j1mc> what can we agree on for now.
<j1mc> i think we're coming to some agreement
<knome> sure
<j1mc> we have PL for now - mr_p  :)
<j1mc> we know we want a council...
<j1mc> 4 or 5 people...
<SiDi> knome: and binary birds
<j1mc> we know we want votes to be equal
<knome> 5, to have a tiebreaker.
<j1mc> but PL can over-rule
<knome> j1mc, that's where we disagree.
<j1mc> as tie-breaker
<j1mc> sorry... not over-rule
<knome> or at least haven't agreed yet
<j1mc> bad choice of words
<j1mc> in cases where the PL and the subject matter expert disagree - we need special considerations
<j1mc> that have yet to be determined
<j1mc> (not sure we can decide on formal lanague in this mtg)
<j1mc> am i on the right track?
<j1mc> what else can we agree on?
<knome> j1mc, but if the council votes 3-2 for the TL (PL disagrees), wouldn't the TL's idea go through anyway?
<j1mc> no, because then there is no tie
<j1mc> wait... yes
<knome> :D
<SiDi> yes
<j1mc> sorry, i misread
<knome> so if there is 5 members
<knome> and one of them is the PL
<SiDi> PL would break the tie when there is a 2-2 (+ 1 abstention or absence)
<knome> yes.
<j1mc> yes
<SiDi> but i'd prefer having the "subject expert" as a tie breaker
<knome> i kind of have to agree with SiDi here
<SiDi> because if he has more experience in the field hes more likely to know which decision is better
<knome> at least if the voting is tied.
<knome> (and there has been a vote)
<charlie-tca> project lead should be thinking of the overall best for the project; team leader is only looking at his part
<SiDi> charlie-tca: i think we're all looking for the best of the project
<SiDi> and we all want to work together and have a global vision of the project
<knome> charlie-tca, how to find out when the decision really matters for the best of the whole project?
<knome> or when it is only about agreeing and disagreeing
<charlie-tca> A a team leader, you want what "you" do first. As project lead, you are looking at everything
<knome> if it's about certain artwork (eg. wallpaper), can you really say that an another WP would be better for "the project" ?
<charlie-tca> yes
<knome> i can't say that.
<charlie-tca> look at Ubuntu and how many times their choices have been hated
<j1mc> WP is certainly subjective
<knome> charlie-tca, if i create a consistent theme for, let's say, lucid with the marketing team
<charlie-tca> Even the karmic gdm screen is still being debated as to quality
<knome> charlie-tca, and it includes a wallpaper, which is as well consistent
<knome> charlie-tca, and the PL disagrees
<raevol> this seems like a really silly thing to get stuck on, since all themed things can be changed by the user
<knome> charlie-tca, should we change to a WP that is not consistent with the rest of the artwork?
<SiDi> raevol: its the main point of disagreement in Xubuntu :D
<charlie-tca> That is not what I said, knome
<raevol> that's kind of ridiculous
<knome> charlie-tca, that's what i meant.
<SiDi> raevol: we usually start epic wars that involve nuclear bombing when it comes to the default wallpaper
<raevol> and things like the login manager or media player get left on the wayside?
<knome> raevol, we usually just agree on those.
<SiDi> the login manager is out of our control
<SiDi> the media player is what i've been working on in the last cycle
<knome> charlie-tca, can you try to be more verbose on what you meant, then?
<raevol> i'm sorry but froma  1st time user at this meeting, if all this governance drama is over wallpaper, that's really sad
<SiDi> raevol: it was a (big) caricature from me
<knome> [IDEA] Council of 4 or 5 members. Votes are equal, except if we need a tie-break. Who will tiebreak?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Council of 4 or 5 members. Votes are equal, except if we need a tie-break. Who will tiebreak?
<knome> raevol, it's not that we only argued over wallpapers.
<raevol> how about a council of 5 and ties are not allowed
<charlie-tca> I'm saying that in any project, the individual team leaders will always push hardest for their team items, especially when they came up with the idea.
<knome> raevol, these are just examples.
<raevol> k
<charlie-tca> The project leader should not be involved in those team projects individuallym, and will look at the whole project instead
<knome> charlie-tca, of course. is that bad for the project, if the team leader wants the best for the project?
<knome> charlie-tca, i mean, COME ON, has anybody really suggested anything THAT SUCKY?
<SiDi> charlie-tca: we all get personal about what we do, its normal. But we also are adult persons and we're capable of thinking about what's best for the project
<knome> (in any team)
<charlie-tca> The project leader shfould be able to look at all the items, to see the biggest picture
<knome> raevol, even in a 5 member council one can be absent and then there's the possibility of having a tie.
<SiDi> charlie-tca: then what can the project leader do apart from waiting and vetoing/distributing white cards?
<raevol> put the vote on hold until the 5th returns?
<knome> charlie-tca, then the project leader should not take part on any team
<SiDi> And, more important, why would there be a single person to have a whole picture of xubuntu ?
<knome> charlie-tca, because then he would get things in his team always pushed through anyway.
<SiDi> raevol: the 5th can disappear. It happens
<knome> charlie-tca, or things HE DID.
<raevol> if they dissapear for more than a few weeks they shouldn't be on council, wouldn't you think? and a vote could wait a few weeks?
<knome> raevol, they can disappear completely.
<knome> raevol, this is voluntary work.
<charlie-tca> raevol: a vote can't wait if a decision has to be made by tomorrow
<raevol> could you then have a time limit on absence before they are replaced?
<SiDi> raevol: a vote can't be on hold. Deadlines are already so short
<charlie-tca> Which does happen
<knome> +1 on charlie-tca and SiDi
<raevol> or perhaps each council member has a person to stand in for them?
<SiDi> we dont even have 10 contributors :D
<charlie-tca> Sure
<SiDi> So we can't do that
<charlie-tca> knome, can you be my stand in?
<knome> do we agree that if council gets something to decide on, they should decide on the thing in the first meeting they have.
<knome> charlie-tca, of course. especially when we disagree :P
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<knome> j1mc, did you fall off your chair already?
<charlie-tca> Of course, that still leaves the council short that member, doesn't it
<j1mc> knome: :)
<charlie-tca> I agree the council has to decide quickly
<knome> charlie-tca, well i think, if i was your stand in, wouldn't i have two votes?
<charlie-tca> Yup
<j1mc> i'm ok with 5 members... do not have a preference on how ties are situated
<charlie-tca> One for qa and one for marketing?
<knome> charlie-tca, my own vote and your vote, if i stand for you.
<knome> regardless of the teams.
<charlie-tca> Sounds right
<knome> should we vote on team size?
<knome> or do we just agree on five?
<knome> eh
<knome> council size
<charlie-tca> Shouldn't there be a minimum number show up to have a decision made?
<knome> (let's kick charlie-tca out, he's not a REAL developer)
<j1mc> i think five is good
<knome> just a joke.
 * j1mc hugs charlie-tca 
<j1mc> :)
 * charlie-tca is gone
<knome> charlie-tca, 50%+, so if the council is 5, 3 would be wnough.
 * knome hugs charlie-tca as well :)
<charlie-tca> right
<SiDi> Sorry, wifi crashed
<knome> if the council is 4, you'd still need 3 to be able to decide
<knome> and the size would leave a possibility for more ties
<charlie-tca> so if we get 3, 4, or 5 show up, a decision would be made at that meeting.
<knome> charlie-tca, yes.
<j1mc> yup
<knome> UNLESS
<knome> there are four people in
<charlie-tca> no UNLESS
<knome> but the PL is away
<knome> then there's a tie
<knome> and no tie-breaker
<knome> if a TL can't tiebreak.
<SiDi> Ok
<charlie-tca> That may be the exception to the TL breaking the tie
<SiDi> i propose Fair Roll Dice for ties
<knome> then it's 2-2 but no tiebreaker.
<knome> SiDi, fair roll dice? :F
<SiDi> dice roll
<SiDi> Sorry, i'm tired
<knome> lol
<knome> i was already wondering what a fair dice was
<charlie-tca> knome: that does make sense. PL is a tiebreaker unless he is not there, then TL is
<knome> (one with 6 6's?)=
<knome> charlie-tca, well...
<knome> charlie-tca, i can't agree on that either
<raevol> does that mean it's agreed that PL breaks ties between TL and PL?
<charlie-tca> okey dokey
<knome> people could tamper with the results
<j1mc> knome: no tampering :)
<knome> eg. propose a meeting when the PL can't take part
<j1mc> gaaah
<j1mc> no
<j1mc> not going to go there
<knome> yes, they could do that.
<charlie-tca> PL should never break ties between him and TL; there would only be two there then
<knome> i could.
<knome> i mean...
<knome> :P
<knome> charlie-tca, so if a vote is 2-2 with PL and TL on different sides, it's still a tiebreak?
<knome> s/tiebreak/tie/
<charlie-tca> PL should not have voted yet
<raevol> perhaps decisions should never be made without both the PL and TL, unless they give their permission? which they would be sort of expected to do if there's a deadline issue?
<knome> so you propose a PL is not a voting member at all?
<charlie-tca> 4 showed up, TL and two voted; no tie
<charlie-tca> I propose the PL votes as tie-breaker only
<SiDi> oh
<SiDi> Then it means the PL can't vote on non-ties, thats unfair to him :D
<knome> no.
<j1mc> doesnt that defeat the purpose of having a PL
<charlie-tca> He no longer has the heaviest say every time
<knome> i disagree.
<charlie-tca> There was no council meeting unless they disagreed, was there?
<knome> if TL and 2 vote (1 for TL, 2 against), and the PL would have agreed with TL...
<knome> that makes PL have so much less weight on his words
<knome> and that's not what we want, if the PL is the best guy to say what is the best for the project, right?
<j1mc> i think the PL should definitely be able to vote.
<knome> if PL voted in the first vote, it would have been a tie (2-2) and then PL's vote would have made the difference, thus TL in this example winning.
<knome> but if the PL didn't vote,TL would have lost.
<j1mc> i know it's important to delineate these things, but i feel like we're splitting hairs
<knome> this is an exaggerated example, but this REALLY shouldn't happen.
<j1mc> if a fifth member can't make it, and there's an important issue... call them.  email them.
<knome> so, do we agree on the council size of 5?
<knome> j1mc, and as the last effort, fart in their nose.
<j1mc> that's ok w/ me
<knome> everybody else agree?
<knome> SiDi, charlie-tca, raevol ?
<knome> lmn, ?
<j1mc> mr_pouit
<lmn> Yes.
<charlie-tca> 5
<lmn> knome: Agreed.
<lmn> :)
<raevol> oh don't wait for my agreement, i'm just watching and commenting
<knome> raevol, you can disagree as well if you feel like.
<knome> raevol, or agree, of course :P
<mr_pouit> yeah yeah, agree for 5
<knome> this shouldn't be a secret club.
<raevol> i agree
<knome> [AGREED] Council size should be 5 members, with one of them being the Project Lead.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Council size should be 5 members, with one of them being the Project Lead.
<knome> did somebody [disagree] with the latter point?
<knome> :P
<j1mc> no :)
<knome> does the PL get vote in the first voting in the council?
<knome> do we need a vote on this?
 * charlie-tca thinks disagreeing is good for the mind
 * knome thinks disagreeing with your mind is good.
<lmn> knome: I disagree with my fists,.
<lmn> jk
<knome> i'll be back in just a few seconds, i have to go to the bathroom.
<j1mc> i think the PL should be able to vote in all cases
<raevol> i agree with PL voting
<j1mc> why should the leader be penalized in the decision-making process?
 * SiDi is half afk. Got work to do for tomorrow morning
 * charlie-tca disagrees, but that is okay too
<knome> SiDi, with being half at keyboard, could you cast your vote
<SiDi> Sure
<knome> + or - ?
<j1mc> the council should be selected by the existing xubuntu-contributors
<SiDi> +
<SiDi> Launch a vote if you want me to vote :P
<SiDi> j1mc: i agree to this too
<knome> [AGREED] The Project Leader will have a vote in a first vote in the council, not just as a tie-breaker.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The Project Leader will have a vote in a first vote in the council, not just as a tie-breaker.
<charlie-tca> +1 j1mc
<knome> yeah.
<knome> anybody disagree?
<charlie-tca> what are we disagreeing on now?
<knome> charlie-tca, you already agreed on selecting the council
<knome> raevol, lmn ?
 * charlie-tca seems to have gotten confused
<knome> heh, np
<lmn> knome: Agreed.
<knome> i can also do [vote]s if you want
<raevol> i agree with PL voting? that's where we are?
<knome> [AGREED] The 4 members in the Council in addition to the Project Leader should be selected by the existing 'xubuntu-contributors'.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The 4 members in the Council in addition to the Project Leader should be selected by the existing 'xubuntu-contributors'.
<raevol> i agree with that too
<knome> okay, who will tiebreak.
<SiDi> knome: if for a reason or another i dont answer to a vote request within 1 min, you can safely assume i vote the same as you, whenever my vote is relevant
<knome> only pl or tl+pl ?
 * SiDi thinks the person who has most contributed to w/e is being discussed should tie break
<knome> SiDi, okay, that's valid/official enough :P
<SiDi> whoever it is
<knome> SiDi, only the one or he and tl?
<knome> and in which order?
<knome> j1mc, charlie-tca, lmn, raevol: can i have your opinions please. should team leader be able to tiebreak?
<lmn> Hm.
<j1mc> be able to tie break what?
<lmn> A tie.
<knome> j1mc, at all.
<lmn> :P
<charlie-tca> only when PL is absent
<raevol> i don't really have enough experience on the project to say who should tiebreak. my instincts say PL should, but i really don't know
<lmn> I agree with charlie.
<j1mc> charlie-tca: i agree
<knome> SiDi, do you agree with that as well?
<mr_pouit> (same here)
<knome> okay
<knome> mr_pouit, sorry for forgetting you in the ping :P
<knome> i think this have been decided already, and i also agree
<lmn> He was too busy being awesome.
<mr_pouit> I'm reading, so no problem :p
<knome> [AGREED] The appropriate Team Lead can be the tiebreaker in a vote, but only if Project Lead is absent.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The appropriate Team Lead can be the tiebreaker in a vote, but only if Project Lead is absent.
<raevol> question: should the PL be able to request that a decision be made when he can be present?
<SiDi> knome: only the one
<j1mc> we are talking about team leads.. but will someone will be assigned as "team lead" formally?  cody-somerville was opposed to this
<SiDi> that makes things more straightforward
<knome> j1mc, i think that was just an idea he threw in. at the moment we DO have team leads.
<charlie-tca> or will each team simply send a team member to the meeting?
<SiDi> knome: there is a consensus on the PL, so lets say PL.
<raevol> i like the idea of council members being associated with teams
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2009-December/007225.html <- what do you think about this new team formation?
<knome> i think people pretty much agreed on it on the list, but i'll ask again
<knome> that would mean we'd have 4 team leads
<knome> if one of them was the PL, we could vote a random guy in the council
<j1mc> i don't like having the website under documentation
<knome> like, some other contributor.
<j1mc> mostly because i feel ill-equipped to coordinate the website, though
<j1mc> i think website is under marketing
<knome> j1mc, they are quite much doing the same thing
<knome> j1mc, you would have people to help you though
<knome> if it's under marketing, then marketing would be quite a big team
<knome> marketing is, in that draft, already marketing+artwork
<j1mc> well, website is both mktg and doc-related
<knome> i think it is more about doc
<j1mc> i need a vote from the council!  :P
<knome> :P
<j1mc> i disagree :P
<charlie-tca> website has to be pretty! that's marketing, isn't it?
<j1mc> yes :)
<knome> charlie-tca, but it also has to have solid INFORMATION. isn't that documentation?
<j1mc> yes :)
<j1mc> documarketing
<charlie-tca> I don't think information is as important as looks
<charlie-tca> Anyone can design an ugly website, but few will go to it then
<SiDi> It's under both
<SiDi> Stop categorizing things so binarily :P
<knome> what the website looks is only to be considered when we are doing a website redesign
<SiDi> charlie-tca: web designers also hold for a fact that a beautiful shell without content is atractive only for the first 5 minutes ;D
<knome> the banners for the website belong to artwork team, which then "ships" the files to the website team, which adds them in the site
<charlie-tca> perhaps a fifth team: Everything else?
<knome> practically: i upload them with drupal.
<knome> :P
<SiDi> charlie-tca: :D
<knome> charlie-tca, disagree. that would include picking your nose, and i want that under marketing. if we are going to create "everything else" team, weÃ¤ll have to explicitly say that nosepicking belongs for the marketing team
 * charlie-tca thinks that is all in the wording
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> That's fine, Knightlust
<charlie-tca> knome
<knome> after all, we already "kind of" have the COMMUNITY team
<knome> which is mentioned in the team report page
<knome> "just put it under community"
<knome> :P
<knome> i've heard that a few times.
<knome> well.
<knome> i'm making a question:
<charlie-tca> That's because community just fits nicely
<knome> if the council should have one member from each team, wouldn't that basically mean that it's populated by (probably) all the team leaders and the PL, and probably one more member?
<knome> if we had five teams, wouldn't that mean that (probably) all the team leaders were part of the council?
<lmn> Sorry, apparently my session died without informing me.
<charlie-tca> yes
<knome> do we really need a fifth team?
<charlie-tca> Which is what the council should be
<knome> does everybody agree that the council should have one member from each team?
<j1mc> knome: in practice, i would like to have the website outside of the official "documentation" realm for now if only because i have no access to the website... if you want to say that members of the marketing and documentation teams will collaborate to ensure the upkeep of the website, that's fine.
<knome> (do i have to make a [vote] ?)
<knome> j1mc, i think you can have an account in the website
<knome> i might be able to do that, actually.
<knome> let me check
<raevol> agreed that the council should consist of team leads, though making a 5th team or not is *shrug*
<SiDi> lmn: dead sessions can't spea
<knome> j1mc, yes, i can do that.
<j1mc> i think that the council should generically be representative of the xubuntu project...
<knome> mr_pouit, lmn, SiDi, j1mc: should council have one member from each team?
<lmn> Hm..
<charlie-tca> expand, j1mc
<lmn> knome: That's a tough one.
<j1mc> knome: i don' think it's necessary to formalize it
<dhillon-v10> hi all :)
<knome> j1mc, i think that a council including the current team leads would definitely do that.
<j1mc> hi dhillon-v10
<knome> hello dhillon-v10
<lmn> Hi, dhillon-v10.
<SiDi> knome: could you type the name of the current 4 teams?
<dhillon-v10> j1mc, knome, lmn so is this a xubuntu-council meeting, nice
<lmn> Yes. :)
<j1mc> there may be some cases where a person is a well-respected, long-time contributor...
<knome> SiDi, check out https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2009-December/007225.html
<j1mc> but they are also part of the artwork/marketing team.
<lmn> Well, we're figuring out what the council _is_ right now.
<SiDi> blah, knome
<knome> SiDi, that's my proposal
<raevol> j1mc: that's really true
<knome> SiDi, CURRENTLY there is more teams.
<j1mc> so... if we have two people on the council from 1 team... that is what we have at that time.
<SiDi> ok, imo website should go to marketing, and there is a lack of desktop team
<j1mc> as long as they are well-respected and people think they make fair decisions, i think it's ok
<knome> dhillon-v10, not a council meeting yet, we don't just have council yet. it's the TEAM meeting ;)
<lmn> ^
<knome> SiDi, i suppose desktop is under dev
<dhillon-v10> knome, okay :) I'll sit back and watch
<SiDi> j1mc: +1. Anyway the 5 members of the council will be part of one or more teams
<knome> j1mc, yeah, no problem if we have more than one from each team. but i was asking whether we should have *at least* one member from each team.
<j1mc> SiDi: yeah
<j1mc> knome: it may not always be possible
<knome> dhillon-v10, feel free to vote and join the discussion as well. it's an open meeting
<j1mc> team names may change
<SiDi> knome: dev should be bugfixing, triaging, packaging, release management, which is different from desktop. But anyway a desktop team is too early considering it would be empty, very likely :p
<dhillon-v10> knome, thanks :)
<raevol> knome: that would be nice, but perhaps not necessary as a requirement
<j1mc> i'm a bit more laissez-faire about this.  if the council will be selected by the contributors...
<knome> j1mc, okay. i can cope with that. no problem :)
<j1mc> i think that's enough
<knome> j1mc, yeah.
<knome> um, i had an another question
<knome> how long should one "season" last? how often should we have a new voting of the council?
<j1mc> if you want to say that the council should "aim" to have balanced membership across the different aspects of xubuntu, i think that's ok
<knome> j1mc, that's a great wording. :)
<j1mc> 1 year - 2 cycles?
<knome> yeah, at least 2 cycles i think.
<j1mc> more than that is too much, i think
<j1mc> charlie-tca: what do you think?
<knome> having a council for 1 cycle doesn't really make it possible to do long-term decisions
<SiDi> I think we could do it per LTS cycle
<knome> SiDi, that's quite rarely.
<SiDi> to be able to decide on very long term projects
<charlie-tca> I am having issues just following this now
<j1mc> charlie-tca: ok
 * SiDi is about to have to go, because of school tomorrow, by the way
<knome> maybe the council should be able to do "very long term decisions" which last over the council's age
<j1mc> do we agree that we don't need to have "one person from each team on the council"?
<knome> j1mc, yes.
<raevol> j1mc: yes
<j1mc> anyone disagree with that?
<lmn> yes
<lmn> er
<lmn> no
<lmn> :P
<lmn> I agree.
<lmn> :)
<knome> and that the "very long term" decisions could be overruled but only by a council vote
<j1mc> lmn: sorry... :)  i changed the yes/no o nyou
<lmn> hehe
<lmn> ;)
<knome> [AGREED] The council should *aim* to have balanced membership across the different aspects/teams of Xubuntu.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The council should *aim* to have balanced membership across the different aspects/teams of Xubuntu.
<SiDi> knome: fair enough
<raevol> knome put in a clause about it not being necessary, just so it's clear to future people
<knome> j1mc, ? what do you think of the very long term stuff?
<knome> raevol, "should aim" means it's not mandatory.
<j1mc> charlie-tca: our next point was to consider how long people should be on the council?
<raevol> knome: i forsee someone trying to make "should aim" into a necessary thing ;)
<knome> raevol, then reconsider rephrasing it at that time
<knome> or just kick his/her ass
<j1mc> appts for the ubuntu community council are made for 2 years
<raevol> hahaha
<knome> j1mc, i agree with you that it's a long time.
<charlie-tca> You ;can define terms later, "should does not mean will" kind of things
<j1mc> technical board members are elected for two years, too
<charlie-tca> 2 years being 4 cycles?
<j1mc> i think that's a long time for us... charlie-tca year... 4 cycles
<knome> charlie-tca, i think we need to have some kind of guideline as for now, so voting members again will happen.
<raevol> i've gotta run guys, will meeting notes end up on the mailing list?
<j1mc> raevol: sure
<knome> yeah, 4 cycles/2 yrs  is a LONG time.
<raevol> kk, bye, good luck!
<charlie-tca> LTS is every two years, what if the council is elected before each LTS phase begins
<mr_pouit> s/before/after/
<charlie-tca> after works for me
<knome> charlie-tca, not thinking the release schedule at all, it's really hard for me seeing it would be good if people sat in the council for 2 years.
<j1mc> i see that as being a long time, but i think it would lend continuity to the project
<mr_pouit> (setting up a new council during a lts cycle looks a bit counterproductive)
<charlie-tca> For continuity and being able to accomplish much, 2 years is about right
<knome> i don't completely disagree with that either.
<charlie-tca> Setting up the new council after lts hits beta?
<dhillon-v10> yah 2 years seems just about right IMHO
<knome> what bout set it when lts is released?
<charlie-tca> It could take 6 months just to get settled each time
<j1mc> and it ensures that we don't get unexpected turnover right before an LTS
<charlie-tca> okay
<knome> should i make a [vote] ?
<j1mc> not yet
<knome> okay.
<knome> i'm waiting for what you have to say :)
<j1mc> so using lucid as an example...
<charlie-tca> 2 years only sounds long, maybe word it to 4 releases
<j1mc> if we used this process...
<j1mc> we would have voted after the close of karmic?
<knome> j1mc, after close of lucid.
<charlie-tca> If it is before LTS, yes
<charlie-tca> If it after, when lucid releases
<knome> i think definitely AFTER an lts release
<j1mc> i would want the council to have had a good amount of experience together in advance of an LTS.
<knome> j1mc, exactly.
<charlie-tca> We picked them after hardy ( 2008) and ;again after lucid (2010)
<knome> that's why we would name the council right after the earlier lts
<j1mc> so we shouldn't introduce a new council to xubuntu immediately in advance of an LTS
<j1mc> knome: agreed.  charlie-tca: agreed, too.
<j1mc> that makes sense
<knome> so that means we are agreeing with the 2 year term as well?
<j1mc> knome: now i think a vote would be ok. :)  yeah, i am ok with that.
<charlie-tca> We don't want leadership changes before/during the LTS release, if we can help it.
<knome> charlie-tca, yeah. exactly.
<knome> does anybody disagree on the two year term or the time naming the new council (just after lts release) ?
<j1mc> i am ok with that
<knome> j1mc, i heard that. i'm waiting for mr_pouit ;)
<mr_pouit> yeah, I'm ok too :p
<lmn> ;)
<knome> okay.
<knome> anybody else?
<lmn> Agreed.
<knome> okay
<SiDi> knome: i agree with changing council after LTS
<charlie-tca> I have to propose that any more discussion be tabled at this point. We are two hours in now
<knome> [AGREED] The council should be named/selected after every LTS release. Thus, every season lasts for 2 years.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The council should be named/selected after every LTS release. Thus, every season lasts for 2 years.
<charlie-tca> Hold another meetint next week or in two weeks.
<knome> kind of disagree.
<knome> :P
<lmn> I agree.
<j1mc> what else needs to be decided?
<j1mc> can we at least confirm that?
<knome> let me see
<knome> there was at least something
<lmn> 2 hours of council discussion has killed my enthusiasm, tbh.
<knome> oh, the new teams
<knome> [ACTION] Discuss about the new team structure in the next meeting.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Discuss about the new team structure in the next meeting.
<knome> umm...
<knome> we still haven't fought about the lucid wallpaper
<j1mc> knome: nooo.
<charlie-tca> make it light
<j1mc> lmn: i know this is not fun
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> well, medium
<knome> well, just to inform you all
<lmn> knome: Just grab an 800x600 polaroid of George W Bush. I'm sure we'd all enjoy that.
<j1mc> but getting this out of the way is helpful.
<j1mc> we won't have to deal w/ it again
<lmn> True.
<charlie-tca> knome: you want me to send you an "everybody else" monitor?
<knome> Michael (NCommander) says he is going to pause his involvement with Xubuntu for now; ENOTIME.
<knome> charlie-tca, haha :D
<knome> so we'll be one short for lucid/lucid+1 at least, i think
<knome> j1mc, where was our agenda again?
<j1mc> wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<knome> j1mc, did you have some quick words about xfce 4.8+lucid?
<j1mc> oh, just that we'll need to set a cutoff point where we decide whether or not we want to use 4.8 or stay with 4.6
<knome> mr_pouit, ?
<charlie-tca> What kind of final date is there for 4.8 to be out?
<j1mc> cody and i talked about it at uds a little... he came up with a date around alpha 3, i think.
<j1mc> i'll have to look at my notes.
<knome> j1mc, will you do that now or later?
<mr_pouit> I don't think it'll be ready
<mr_pouit> so I would prefer to wait for lucid+1
<knome> i doubt it as well, but IF...
<knome> maybe that would be better
<knome> even though i'd really like to see 4.8 in lucid
<knome> escpecially if it has a menu editor
<knome> >:|
<SiDi> Good night to everyone. If my opinion is needed I let Pasi vote instead of me
<knome> SiDi, i doubt we'll vote today. good night :)
<j1mc> we can talk about it further, but my note from talking with cody says, "Decide on whether or not to include Xfce 4.8 between Alpha 3 and Beta 11"
<knome> beta 11? :P
<SiDi> charlie-tca: 4.8 should be out in 1st of April if my memory doesnt betray me
<j1mc> beta 1
<j1mc> sorry
<knome> when is beta 1?
<SiDi> beta 1 is in March 1st
<charlie-tca> Seems a little tight to get it into lucid
<mr_pouit> alpha 3 is after feature freeze, too late
<knome> beta 1 is march 18th
<charlie-tca> PL has spoken
<knome> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<SiDi> I think it's safer not to push it, but we need to check the billion commits for bugfixes to the 4.6 branch
<charlie-tca> :-)
<SiDi> Now, good night everyone! :D
<mr_pouit> SiDi: that's in progress
<mr_pouit> I've already included all patches from the xfce-4.6 branch in xfdesktop4 today for instance
<knome> so shall we go with 4.6?
<j1mc> mr_pouit: would we be able to get the new thunar into lucid?
<j1mc> even if we went w/4.6?
<mr_pouit> it depends on xfce 4.8 components
<mr_pouit> (such as libxfce4ui)
<j1mc> yeah
<mr_pouit> and exo 0.6
<mr_pouit> they aren't "stable" at the moment
<mr_pouit> so I would prefer not to include it
<j1mc> with dapper... xubuntu was released w/ xfce 4.3.9.xx or something
<mr_pouit> yeah, and xfce folks were really unhappy
<mr_pouit> because they received bugs reports about outdated development releases
<knome> hmm
<charlie-tca> We are looking at keeping 4.6.? until 2013?
<mr_pouit> moreover, thunar gio might create issues with other components not ported yet
<mr_pouit> (such as xfdesktop4)
<lmn> charlie-tca: Yeah, that means listening to gui menu editing questions until 2013.
<lmn> heh heh
<knome> ugh
<charlie-tca> and complaints about it being out of date, too
<lmn> This is a loaded problem.
<lmn> REAL loaded.
<knome> wasn't there a guy who was crating an xfce-suitable version of alacarte?
<knome> :?
<j1mc> we could go with 4.6, and put 4.8 in a ppa.
<lmn> j1mc: I don't see that going over well.
<j1mc> well... at least we can begin to identify the issues/possible problems now.
<j1mc> and then make a decision as we see how 4.8 is progressing.
<j1mc> they may not have things done until june.
<j1mc> never know. :)
<j1mc> or july.
<knome> [ACTION] Continue looking how 4.8 is progressing and possible include it in Lucid.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Continue looking how 4.8 is progressing and possible include it in Lucid.
<knome> any team reports?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit has done great triaging and fixing bugs
<j1mc> i've written new docs for xfce4-screenshooter in "mallard," a new doc syntax from the gnome team.
<knome> [TOPIC] Team reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team reports
<j1mc> jeromeg likes them
<knome> [ACTION] Lionel had done great traging and fixing bugs.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Lionel had done great traging and fixing bugs.
<knome> [ACTION] Jim has written new docs for xfce4-screenshooter in "Mallard" (jeromeg likes them).
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim has written new docs for xfce4-screenshooter in "Mallard" (jeromeg likes them).
<j1mc> heh
<mr_pouit> (some topics for the marketing & artwork team: ubiquity slideshow & plymouth theme ;p)
<knome> [ACTION] Shimmer Project announced the deadline for Albatross 0.2 to be 1st of March so we will have time to incorporate it into Lucid, if decided so.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Shimmer Project announced the deadline for Albatross 0.2 to be 1st of March so we will have time to incorporate it into Lucid, if decided so.
<knome> mr_pouit, is plymouth in lucid?
<mr_pouit> yes, although I don't know if it works :)
<j1mc> they confirmed at UDS that they would be using plymouth + xplash for the boot sequence
<knome> [ACTION] Artwork team to look on Plymouth and plan on creating a theme.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Artwork team to look on Plymouth and plan on creating a theme.
<j1mc> i'm going to be recruiting for xubuntu and xfce doc help.
<charlie-tca> shimmer project needs to lighten the panels in lucid
<j1mc> both are separate projects
<knome> j1mc, you decided to have two projects after all?
<j1mc> knome: xubuntu docs will continue to be done in docbook for now.
<j1mc> so, es
<knome> [ACTION] Jim is working on and recruiting for both the Xubuntu and Xfce documentation.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim is working on and recruiting for both the Xubuntu and Xfce documentation.
<knome> charlie-tca, did you file a bug?
<j1mc> s/es/yes
<knome> j1mc, okay
<charlie-tca> knome: not yet
<knome> [ACTION] Charlie files bugs about Albatross accessibility issues so the artwork guys can work on them.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie files bugs about Albatross accessibility issues so the artwork guys can work on them.
<mr_pouit> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ubiquity-slideshow for ubiquity also
<mr_pouit> that's already enabled in ubuntu I think, I don't know what it looks like, but it could be nice to have this for xubuntu as well
<knome> [ACTION] Marketing team to look after Ubiquity slideshows.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Marketing team to look after Ubiquity slideshows.
<knome> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubiquity-slideshow
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubiquity-slideshow
<knome> mr_pouit, i can see that and discuss with people knowing more about it
<mr_pouit> ok
<j1mc> knome: we'll also need CSS for the Xubuntu docs
<mr_pouit> do you think you can have a first version before feature freeze? knome
<mr_pouit> (feb 18th)
<knome> [ACTION] Pasi and Jim continue theming the Xubuntu documentation.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pasi and Jim continue theming the Xubuntu documentation.
<dhillon-v10> j1mc, I'll help with system docs too, if needed :)
<j1mc> dhillon-v10: excellent
<knome> mr_pouit, that's possible, but i think i need some help to achieve/make that daye
<knome> *date
<knome> so, anything else we should cover now or in the next meeting?
<j1mc> everyone, i need to go, but i wanted to THANK YOU for your time.  :)
<j1mc> this was the best xubuntu meeting ever.
<knome> thank you jim.
<mr_pouit> knome: okay, I can take care of the packaging stuff, etc, but not of the text inside the slides :p
<knome> i'll put up the meeting minutes and the logs and stuff
<j1mc> knome: i can help with the text for the slides
<knome> mr_pouit, thanks. :) j1mc can work on the texts
<knome> hehe
<knome> great
<knome> maybe we'll be ready for FF then
<knome> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:33.
<mr_pouit> :)
<knome> gah
<j1mc> :-D
<j1mc> hehe
 * knome slaps himself in the face
<charlie-tca> gotta go now
<knome> okay, see you charlie-tca
<j1mc> later, charlie-tca
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-01-03
<Tyron> Wann
 * skaet looks around and sees some familiar nicks  :)
 * micahg waves
<pitti> hello skaet, happy new year!
 * charlie-tca waves
<skaet> :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> Happy New Year all!
<skaet> Not sure if we'll have quorum or not, but a quick run through of the agenda, so we know the questions to ask this week seems appropriate.
<marjo> happy new year to all!
<skaet> Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/StableReleaseAgenda
<skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> and with that probably a good idea to start off...
<skaet> [TOPIC] open action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  open action items
<skaet> marjo - any update on the SRU test reports being added into the agenda?
<marjo> skaet: please mark that one done; we'll include starting this week
<skaet> awesome!  thanks marjo.
<skaet> victorp,  how about the cert ones?
<skaet> hmm,  no victorp yet...
<skaet> any other updates to the open action items?
<skaet> ok, moving on
<skaet> [TOPIC] Bug updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug updates
<skaet> since last month there's been about +37 bugs opened for maverick,   +24 on lucid.
<pitti> urgh; hopefully most of them as part of SRU uploads?
<skaet> not sure
<skaet> just started looking at the numbers this morning, and I think some serious triaging may be needed.
<skaet> esp. with 10.04.2 scheduled for next month the lucid ones are a bit of a concern.
<marjo> skaet: will follow up w/ bdmurray re: triaging
<skaet> thanks marjo.  :)
<skaet> pitti, where are things standing with karmic SRU release right now?  (did one go out?)
<victorp> skaet - hi
<pitti> skaet: very few; basically the kernel churn, and there are two untested papyon/tomboy packages in -proposed
<pitti> ..
<skaet> thanks pitti.
<sconklin> What about the Karmic kernel still in -proposed?
<pitti> sconklin: untested, and -ec2 doesn't even have a tracking bug
<pitti> see bug 683474
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683474 in linux (Ubuntu Karmic) "Karmic: 2.6.31-22.70 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683474
<sconklin> we're only testing maverick and lucid
<sconklin> Karmic falls back to the old "time in proposed"
<skaet> hmm,   this probably needs to be made clearer then in the process docs.
<skaet> if that's the concensus.
<pitti> so we still need someone in the community to install and test that kernel
<marjo> pitti, sconklin: pedro tested http://people.canonical.com/~pedro/kernel/kernel-2.6.31-22.70/
<sconklin> well, Ideally everything would get all testing, but we're resource-bound
<skaet> we schedule runs  (of earlier) in when there are gaps with maverick/lucid testing?
<bjf> marjo, that's the right kernel
<pitti> marjo: ah, nice! so we can consider this done
<pitti> sconklin: so that leaves the -ec2 one
<pitti> bug updated
<marjo> pitti: only if we agree that HW cert tests did not have to be run, see bug report please
<pitti> marjo: it was a security update only, so I think that's fine
<marjo> pitti: ack
<sconklin> marjo, victorp, skaet - I'm dependent on the people who do the testing to determine what's possible. We need to figure out what we're doing as a rule and document it
<pitti> we just need to guard against misbuilds and grave errors here
<smb`> pitti, sconklin I guess i can try to get some generic boot/regression testing done for ec2 either today or tomorrow
<sconklin> pitti: agreed
<sconklin> smb`: thanks
<pitti> smb`: that sounds fine
<skaet> sconklin, pitti,  agreed.
<pitti> ec2 is basically just on kvm, isn't it? so that shouldn't be too hard to test
<victorp> sconklin - agreed , I am happy to document the hwcert part , let me know where
<skaet> smb thanks.
<skaet> ok,  moving on...
<skaet> [TOPIC] 10.04.2
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.2
<skaet> sconklin, any update on the kernel milestoned bugs?
<sconklin> There was one bug milestoned, and I just chatted with Robbie - it's probably going to be rescheduled
<skaet> thanks sconklin.  :)
<skaet> any one around from foundations today?  (cjwatson's on holiday)
<skaet> hmm,  no bugs tagged against server at the moment so we're good there.
<skaet> pitti,  any update on the desktop milestoned ones?
<pitti> skaet: I updated the wiki page
<skaet> pitti,  thanks!  :)
<pitti> the summary is that none of them are currently being worked on
<pitti> one is just a "do it" thing (geode), the other two are pretty much "won'tfix"
<pitti> we don't currently have active work on 10.04.2 in teh desktop team
<pitti> is there something we should focus on?
<pitti> ..
<skaet> any chance we'll get someone to work on OOo?
<skaet> between now and Feb?
<ogra> skaet, see the ML, doko already did it seems
<pitti> skaet: question for Jason, I don't have an update since december
<pitti> holidays..
<pitti> doko heroically packaged LibO for natty, though
<pitti> (not finished yet)
<skaet> ogra, cool.   will look into it a bit more.  was just looking at top level status this morning.
<skaet> pitti,  fair 'nuf.   will follow up with jason, and keep fingers crossed on the rest.
<skaet> will dig into the 10.04.2 bugs in more detail this week and next.   release is 2/17, so there's still time.
<skaet> any questions/comments?
<micahg> about 10.04.2 in general?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Stable Release Updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Stable Release Updates
<skaet> micahg, yup sorry...
<micahg> yes, I was wondering about the release timeline WRT freezes
 * micahg apologizes for not raising a hand
<skaet> micahg, no worries.   will take an action to set the date, and broadcast.
 * skaet will go back into the precedent emails :)
<skaet> anyone else?
<skaet> ok,  back to Stable Release
<skaet> sconklin,  know you're just back, but anything on the hot plate?
<sconklin> Not that I'm aware of, but I haven't even cleared email yet
<ogra> same here
<doko> skaet: what di you to know about foundations?
<skaet> thanks sconklin, ogra
<skaet> doko,  just wondering if any updates on the 10.04.2 milestoned bugs from foundations team.
<doko> sorry, don't know
<skaet> no worries.
<skaet> pitti, sconklin - so I'm guessing no need for a hw cert run, or regression runs this week?
<pitti> skaet: not that I can see
<rtg__> if there are resources, then how about testing karmic?
<sconklin> skaet: we're going to discuss today whether we can upload a new cycle start by Friday.
<skaet> victorp, marjo ^^
<marjo> skaet: ack
<skaet> sconklin, ack
<bjf> rtg__, discussed and someone is on it
<skaet> rtg__, see earlier in log.
<skaet> sconklin, victorp, marjo,  when is the next reasonable date to aim for lucid/maverick then?
<victorp> rtg_ we would like to focus this week on natty
<rtg__> sorry, my machine wedged and I must have missed it
<victorp> skaet - date to start or to release?
<sconklin> skaet: we'd really like to hit Friday upload but don't know if we can make it
<bjf> victorp, what's natty? :-)
<victorp> skaet - I would like to avoid a "2nd week" during the rally
<sconklin> We'll let everyone know by tomorrow morning
<skaet> victorp, sconklin - how about aim for testing cycle, week after rally then, and release that thursday?
<victorp> bjf - dont know anymore :)
<sconklin> That would put first week during the rally
<sconklin> "Verification Phase"
<marjo> skaet: two possible conflicts: 1) rally 2) US holiday 17 January
<skaet> marjo, sconklin - true
<marjo> skaet: more concerned about rally conflict
<victorp> skaet - I wanted to clarify one thing - if we call it a "regression week" and we release on thursday, that means that the proposed kernels for regression have to be made available the thursday before, right?
<marjo> but should be manageable
<victorp> marjo - not for hw cert as laptops need to be rebooted manually and might not have anyone in the lab
<skaet> victorp, yes,  kernels should be avail week before.
<victorp> skaet - thanks
<marjo> victorp: ack
<sconklin> let's please try to use the names "verification phase" and "testing phase"
<skaet> so,  should we just aim for releasing on Jan 20,  or  Jan 27?
<skaet> sconklin,  I'll go mark up the interlock that way if it will help.
<sconklin> skaet: yeah, naming was not handled well by me at the outset, and I'm trying to unify everything now
<sconklin> thanks
<skaet> ok - will do.
<victorp> sconklin ack
<victorp> skaet - I vote for the 27th
<skaet> right now shedule has 1/6 and 1/27 as release dates for SRU targets.    Does it make sense to drop 1/27 and just go with 1/20?
<skaet> heh
 * skaet types too slow for victorp
<skaet> if there's nothing on the hot burner, some focus on natty and the lucid 10.04.2 bugs makes sense.
<victorp> skaet - 1/20 means the verification phase is during the rally, is that ok?
<skaet> victorp,  good point.
<marjo> skaet: if we're voting, then i vote for release on 1/27
<skaet> ok, 1/27 it is.
<skaet> any other topics to discuss today on the SRU side?
<skaet> going once?
<skaet> twice?
<skaet> ok, probably time to end the meeting.
<skaet> thanks everyone for participating.  :)
<ogra> \o/
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:42.
<marjo> skaet: thx!
<ogra> thanks for holding the first meeting this year ;)
<victorp> thanks skaet - sorry for my late appearance !
<ogra> same here
<ogra> somehow my gcal notification didnt go off it seems
<skaet> thanks marjo, victorp, ogra, pitti, sconklin, bjf!
<pitti> thanks all
<micahg> thanks skaet
<skaet> thanks micahg :)
<skaet> will see if we can nail down that freeze shortly.  :)
<micahg> skaet: great, thanks
<skaet> micahg, thanks for bringing it up.  :)
<czajkowski> ogra: sure you're not using an iphone alarm :)
<ogra> czajkowski, i dont use apple products ;)
<czajkowski> ogra: no exuse so :) hope you had a good christmas
<ogra> i did
 * ogra has a new housemate :)
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/bodo.jpg
<czajkowski> ahh cat!
<ayan> awww.
<czajkowski> cats freak me out
<czajkowski> and also scare me
 * DJones offers czajkowski a kebab stick to deal with the cat
<czajkowski> another thing that should be not be allowed, Kebabs!
<ogra> tell that to the turks
<czajkowski> ogra: do you go to FOSDEM ?
<ogra> i'm pondering
<ogra> depends a bit on the weather
<czajkowski> you should it is full of awesome!
<DJones> czajkowski: Kebabs are good as long as its not a donner kebab
<ogra> i guess i'll decide it spontaneous ... i havent been there since 2006
<Nafallo> is it full of kebab?
<Pendulum> czajkowski: you don't like kebab?
<soren> o/
 * barry waves
<soren> cjwatson, persia, cody-somerville, bdrung: We have a DMB meeting now, don't we?
<bdrung> yes, we have!
<cody-somerville> we do? I thought it wasn't for another hour
<cody-somerville> and usually its another hour after that :P
<soren> cody-somerville: Did it move?
<cody-somerville> not that I know of.
<cody-somerville> maybe google calendar is just broken crap
<bdrung> "date -u" shows Mo 3. Jan 19:04:34 UTC 2011
<soren> Then I'm reasonably sure it's now. Reasonably being the operative word.
<soren> I don't think the current time is being debated :)
<barry> the wiki page says the meeting is at 1900 utc
<soren> It's whether that happens to coincide with the time set for this meeting.
<soren> Wciked .
<soren> Wicked, even.
 * soren <--- Now with improved typing.
<cody-somerville> hmm... I don't see an event on the fridge calendar for the DMB meeting
<cody-somerville> I'm pretty sure there used to be one
<barry> :)
<soren> Don't believe everything you read.
<soren> Or don't read.
 * cody-somerville creates new events.
<cody-somerville> ugh, and you can't use UTC :(
<soren> What do you have to use?
<soren> cody-somerville: ^
 * cody-somerville is looking up a timezone that he can use that always matches UTC.
<soren> Iceland.
<soren> Something/Reykjavik
<soren> cody-somerville: ^
<soren> They have no DST and are at UTC+0.
<cody-somerville> cool
<soren> I forget what the Something is. Politically, Iceland is European, but it's probably Atlantic/Reykjavik or something.
<cody-somerville> wow. what happened to google calendars. Its all hard to use now. I can't see where to make an event repeating and had a hard time finding out how to set the time (its on a separate tab :S)
<cody-somerville> oh, there it is
<bdrung> where are the others?
<cody-somerville> Holiday in the UK
<cody-somerville> FYI, I added DMB meeting to Fridge Calendar. It should be the right time from now on. Can everyone check to make sure it shows up right for them?
<barry> dang, so likely no quorum?
 * geser is here now
<soren> That makes four of us.
<bdrung> then let's begin.
<bdrung> chair?
<soren> Sure, go ahead.
<soren> Wow, you walked right into that one.
<bdrung> i was asking who want to be chair?
<soren> I know. I was just jokingly assuming you were volunteering.
<bdrung> cody-somerville: maybe you? you should have been the chair for the last meeting.
* cody-somerville changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<cody-somerville> ^^ Calendar now understands 'UTC' FYI
<cody-somerville> okay
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:23. The chair is cody-somerville.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<soren> Rock!
<cody-somerville> but someone else has to do the write up and update the agenda + minutes on wiki :P
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of previous action items
<cody-somerville> * Colin Watson to find a convenient time for a meeting for Martin Pool's application.
<cody-somerville> Colin Watson isn't present, carrying action item
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters
<cody-somerville> * Review Marco Rodrigues participation in Ubuntu Development
<bdrung> cody-somerville: the fridge calendar says "The calendar below is in GMT (no daylight savings)."
<cody-somerville> I sent out an e-mail while I was on vacation to Marco with details of the consensus we reached at the last DMB meeting.
<bdrung> thanks for sending the mail.
<cody-somerville> bdrung, I changed the timezone of the calendar to that iceland one soren said. It doesn't have daylights saving so will always be GMT+0 which is UTC
<cody-somerville> Anything else to discuss regarding Marco? I haven't got a response back from him.
<soren> Waiting on him, them.
<soren> then.
<cody-somerville> * Review responsibilities and requirements of DMB delegates (CodySomerville)
<cody-somerville> I'll write an e-mail up about this and send it to the list. We can discuss at meeting after that.
 * stgraber just noticed the meeting. Kind of around if you need me
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Package Sets
<MootBot> New Topic:  Package Sets
<cody-somerville> No applications this week.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications
<cody-somerville> * MartinPool/DeveloperApplication
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinPool/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinPool/DeveloperApplication
<soren> stgraber: Sorry, forgot to ping you, too :(
<cody-somerville> He doesn't appear to be on IRC at the moment.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
<cody-somerville> No applications this week.
<geser> any questions left that didn't get asked on the last meeting?
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] MOTU Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Applications
<cody-somerville> * Angel Abad
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AngelAbad/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AngelAbad/MOTUApplication
<angelabad> Hi, Im here!
<cody-somerville> angelabad, Hello. Please introduce yourself and explain why you feel you should be granted MOTU status.
<angelabad> Hi, Im Angel Abad from Basque
<angelabad> Country (Spain), Im universe contributor, and I work specially
<angelabad> in merges and sync, also im debian maintainer and in dd process, I think
<angelabad> I have good skills for packaging and I can help a lot in Universe packages
<angelabad> you can see my endorsements, I think them are good endrosements.
<cody-somerville> angelabad, Have you ever packaged any software from scratch?
<angelabad> cody-somerville, not for ubuntu, but yes for Debian
<angelabad> you can see my packages http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=angelabad%40gmail.com
<angelabad> perl packages are group packages, but others like almanah or dajax are packaged for me from scratch
<bdrung> angelabad: you wrote "sometimes poorly tested software is included in Ubuntu distribution". do you have any idea how to improve the quality?
<angelabad> bdrung, sincerely no, I think this is the result of unstable sync
<cody-somerville> angelabad, Is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mango-lassi/001+dfsg-3 a sync?
<angelabad> cody-somerville, yes
 * cody-somerville wishes Launchpad would make that more obvious.
<bdrung> angelabad: so we should sync from testing instead?
<angelabad> bdrung, I dont know, but a possibility would be to wait some days after sync with unstable, only an idea...
<bdrung> angelabad: wait some days? you mean, that a unstable package should only synced if it is x days old?
<angelabad> bdrung, yes
<bdrung> interesting suggestion
<bdrung> angelabad: you could start a discussion on the ubuntu-devel mailing list
<angelabad> bdrung, ok!
<cody-somerville> angelabad, Are you familiar with the SRU and freeze exception policies?
<angelabad> cody-somerville, sincerelly not much, I know I must work more on SRUs, but I promise to work hard on it
<maco> angelabad: did you know that for lucid we actually did sync from testing instead of unstable? (sorry to interrupt)
<angelabad> maco, no
<angelabad> i dont know that
<soren> I'm ready to vote.
<bdrung> me too
<geser> me too
 * soren pokes cody-somerville 
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] MOTU Application: Angel Abad
<MootBot> Please vote on:  MOTU Application: Angel Abad.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<cody-somerville> angelabad, Congratulations.
<angelabad> thanks a lot for your votes!
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<cody-somerville> * Barry Warsaw
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
 * barry waves
<cody-somerville> barry, Hello Barry. Please take a moment to introduce yourself and why you feel you should be granted Core Developer status.
<barry> i'm barry warsaw, and i have been on the platform foundations team @ canonical for (iirc) over a year now.  i have been a python core dev for 15+ years, been doing s/w development for maybe 30.  working on becoming a dd.  i am intimately involved in the python 2.7 transition for natty.
 * geser points also at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:00 for some questioning of barry (and poolie) at the last (informal) meeting
<barry> having core dev status would greatly help natty dev as it would reduce the lag for fixing 2.7 transition issues (there is no python package set, and i understand will not be because of complexity).  i think i have a pretty good grasp of packaging, and am not afraid to ask questions
<barry> geser: thanks, yes we had a long discussion at the last meeting before the new year
<barry> i've done a few packages from scratch and have fixed a bunch of existing packages
<bdrung> barry: what's the current status of becoming DD?
<barry> bdrung: it's going slowly because i'm concentrating on ubuntu, and it takes longer to get turnaround on sponsored packages in debian.  but it's progressing and i intend to make another push at it after the platform rally
<barry> i've got my own packages and am adopting more to help out with.  i'm pretty active in debian-python
<cody-somerville> Do you do any work outside of Python in Ubuntu or Debian?
<barry> cody-somerville: atm no, but that's still includes a wide range of technology (e.g. because of embedding, c and c++ is included).  the 2.7 transition is consuming my time this cycle, but i'm certainly comfortable in c, c++, java at the very least.  i'm a good software breaker and fixer :)
<barry> i've got a firm grasp of autotools too
<cody-somerville> barry, Have you ever completed the freeze exception process, SRU process, or security update process in Ubuntu?
<barry> cody-somerville: i have not had occasion to yet.  i've read the docs, but until you actually do it...  i vaguely remember assisting others with a few such requests
<cody-somerville> Does anyone else have any questions for barry?
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Barry Warsaw
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Barry Warsaw.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> -0 Although a smart guy who I'm sure will be a core developer some day, unfortunately currently does not meet criteria for Core Dev.
<cody-somerville> err
<cody-somerville> -1 Although a smart guy who I'm sure will be a core developer some day, unfortunately currently does not meet criteria for Core Dev.
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<bdrung> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bdrung. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> soren, stgraber: ?
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<soren> Sorry, phased out for a bit there.
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 1
<soren> geser: Thanks for the nudge.
<cody-somerville> barry, Unfortunately your application for Core Developer status has been denied for the time being.
<barry> cody-somerville, bdrung can you describe what you would like to see from me for you to be able to comfortably give me a +1?  i will be back :)
<cody-somerville> barry, I recommend being move involved with the Ubuntu development processes before applying again. I also want to see solid endorsements on your application and preferably no negative ones.
<cody-somerville> barry, I also recommend branching out from just python stuff.
<cody-somerville> barry, That is critical. You need to be a generalist to be a core developer.
<cody-somerville> barry, If you were applying for upload permissions to just python stuff, I would have gave +1 - something you might also consider instead of core developer in the near future.
<barry> cody-somerville: okay, i understand you want proof of that.  i am a generalist who is consumed in one area right now.
<barry> unfortunately there is no way that i know of to ask for upload permissions to just python stuff :(
<cody-somerville> barry, Request the creation of a python package set
<ScottK> cody-somerville: IIRC cjwatson has already said he's unwilling to administer such a package set.
<geser> won't happen
<maco> cody-somerville: that was mentioned last time and i think cjwatson said it was unfeasible
<barry> cody-somerville: i did that on ubuntu-devel a few months ago and received silence.  also, at the last meeting cjwatson effectively shot that down as being too complicate (probably rightly so)
<cody-somerville> *python toolchain package set
<tumbleweed> barry: would MOTU + PPU help in the mean-time? Or are you touching too many main packages?
<barry> tumbleweed: i am touching many main packages ;)
<barry> i have ppu to a few but it seems infeasible to ask for ppu on everything i'm going to touch
 * micahg thinks python toolchain packageset sounds like a good idea, but isn't sure how many packages that is or if it helps
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, lets wrap up.
<cody-somerville> [topic] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<cody-somerville> no volunteers? Okay.
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:28.
<cody-somerville> geser, Would you be kind enough to take care of the meeting minutes for me? :)
<barry> thank you guys
<geser> cody-somerville: sure, can do
<soren> There's plenty of prior art to granting people with narrow focus core-dev privs.
<maco> Riddell tells me that when he got core dev privs, he was told to try to stick to packages that start with K
<geser> and see also cjwatson mail to the dmb mailing list about being us to "conservative"
<cody-somerville> subject?
<geser> maco: luckily the the kernel starts with "l" :)
 * bdrung was interrupted by an phone call.
<micahg> well, there are guidelines on teh wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu%20Core%20Developers
<geser> cody-somerville: don't remember and don't have access to my mailbox right now, but it was short after the last meeting (Dec 20th)
<cody-somerville> micahg, indeed
<barry> micahg: yes, but those guidelines aren't terribly specific
<cody-somerville> barry will be core dev someday and he will most likely continue to have a narrow focus on python stuff
<barry> given my job description, yes ;)
<micahg> barry: well, they're general, but give a good idea of what is needed for a core-dev, do you believe that you meet those guidelines at the moment?
<micahg> cody-somerville: I definitely agree
<micahg> err, maybe not entirely :-/
<cody-somerville> micahg, hmm?
<micahg> cody-somerville: err, ignore that
<barry> micahg: well, "have a history of substantial direct contributions to the distribution" is probably one ding that i could reasonably have, though it's not a guideline that provides clear goals on what that history should be.  i.e. 50 packages?  100?  one year?  two years?  see what i mean?
<bdrung> barry: from the wiki: "have a strong working knowledge of Ubuntu project procedures" - having done a SRU or security fix.
<micahg> * are able to apply this knowledge to a variety of packages and subsystems
<bdrung> barry: ^
<barry> bdrung: okay, fair enough, though i would submit that the guideline should say exactly that
<micahg> barry: yeah, that is subjective, but I think once the other pieces are met, that falls into place
<bdrung> barry: i like to see more packages here: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=barry@python.org&comaint=yes
<bdrung> barry: i like to see more/stronger endorsements. compare https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AngelAbad/MOTUApplication with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
<barry> bdrung: respectfully, i think that's a bit unfair.  while i am committed to helping out more with debian, i don't think it should be a *requirement* for core ubuntu dev
<barry> bdrung: yes, i need to be more aggressive in twisting the arms of folks i've worked with :)
<bdrung> barry: debian work is not a requirement for a core dev, but shows the packaging skills.
<barry> bdrung: yep.  please also understand i have no hard feelings, and i am happy to go through the process correctly.  i hope you understand that my being critical of the process (or perhaps the written embodiment of it) is a negative reaction to missing out this time!
<barry> i want to understand exactly what is required so that it will be easier for the next folks to go through it
<barry> er, *is not* a negative reaction!
<maco> heh this reminds me of when i became a motu. "have you done a merge?" "yes, a half hour ago" "why a half hour ago?" "i figured itd be a definite no if i had to answer no to that question"
<cody-somerville> lmao
 * micahg wonders if new packageset maintenance tools would help
<barry> anything we can do to allow people to become more involved would be a good thing
<bdrung> barry: look at the picture at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers?action=recall&rev=57
<bdrung> barry: the way was to become a contributor, a motu, and then a core-dev
<maco> except those dotted lines... i mean, most people skip the yellow box
<barry> bdrung: interesting.  why was that diagram removed?
<maco> im guessing because packagesets make it so much more fine-grained than that image shows now
<bdrung> barry: dunno.
<barry> it also doesn't address ppu as a step in the process
<bdrung> but having one step between becoming core-dev would be nice.
<maco> could be in the ubuntu-desktop packageset without being a motu, for instance
<barry> that might be a good next step before coming back to request core
<bdrung> barry: two things made me hesitate: 1) experience (26 uploads). for example, i had 100 uploads when i became core-dev (gone through contributor -> motu -> core-dev). 2) broad knowledge (e.g. SRUs)
<bdrung> and your debian qa page didn't support point one.
<barry> bdrung: i think that's fair enough, and i do appreciate the feedback.  i have confidence my upload number will look more appealing by the end of natty and i'll attempt to get direct sru experience.  i'll also concentrate more on the debian side of things, though i do think i understand packaging fairly well
<bdrung> as core-dev you should gave gone through an complete release cycle.
<maco> he has, hasnt he? given his time at cnaonical...
<ari-tczew> barry: compare Bhavi, which joined MOTU with 1000+ uploads done and you with 26 uploads to core-dev :)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: Bhavi won't set the lower limit for uploads ;)
<barry> maco: yes.  i went on rotation with foundations at maverick
<bdrung> barry: experience is more than just understanding packaging.
<tumbleweed> of course there's also a difference between inexperienced developers with only distro experience, and experienced developers gettingo into distro work
<bdrung> barry: i suggest to reapply for core-dev after the natty cycle.
<barry> ari-tczew: true, but it should not be just a numbers game i hope!  my concern is that ubuntu development is too bureaucratic and will discourage people who could be great contributors.  i'm not worried about myself, since i'm a stubborn bastard and will be back again, but ime, it doesn't take much to discourage many good folks from participating.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: good point.
<barry> bdrung, tumbleweed true
<barry> bdrung: thanks, i will
<bdrung> barry: re bureaucratic, does this apply only to the dmb or are there other things that are too bureaucratic too?
<ari-tczew> barry: conclusion from all feedbacks here: you should got PPU for all python-related packages
<bdrung> ari-tczew: that wont happen (too much work to maintain that package set)
<barry> bdrung: irc is probably not the best forum to explore that in depth, but in general, it's very valuable to take a critical eye on all processes and steps.  this is something we were very good at on the launchpad project and it helped eliminate waste and discouragement.
<barry> bdrung: i'd love to chat with you about it at a future uds :)
<bdrung> barry: yes. the ubuntu devel mailing list would be a better place for discussing it.
<bdrung> barry: i would love to go to an uds, but the last times i wasn't sponsored by canonical.
<barry> bdrung: +1.  it's one of the reasons why i don't at all mind going through the process.  you have to live through it to understand it, but you also have to keep a newbie's mind to empathize with what people go through
<cody-somerville> Well, I certainly hope we don't feel 'newbies' should be applying for core-dev ;-)
<barry> bdrung: ah.  when uds-o comes around, please do ping me if you would like to apply for sponsorship
<barry> cody-somerville: no, but there should be a very clear path to obtaining it, and that is something that i feel is lacking right now
<barry> there's a path, but there's overgrowth and some of the blazes are missing :)
 * bdrung agrees that the criteria for becoming core-dev/motu/... is not defined precisely. it leaves room for interpretation and different dmb member make different judgements.
<cody-somerville> I think that we need to continue to work on the archive reorg stuff. We shouldn't be giving people core-dev because its convenient permission wise.
<bdrung> barry: thanks. i am taking down a note to ping you.
<micahg> cody-somerville: I definitely agree with that :)
<barry> cody-somerville: yes, definitely
<cody-somerville> core-dev is one of the highest echelons in our development community. Its not just about being trusted to upload any package in the archive, its a position of leadership and responsibility.
<barry> cody-somerville: that's a valuable distinction that isn't really clear from reading the available wiki docs.  in that sense, perhaps "core-dev" conflates two concepts that should really be separated.  packagesets and ppu attempt to address that, but perhaps don't go far enough
<cody-somerville> agreed
<geser> does somebody know if ArchiveReorg is fully completed yet?
<barry> geser: i do not
<micahg> geser: I think the goal is by 12.04
<micahg> actually maybe not even by then
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-01-04
<udienz> Asia - Oceania RMB Meeting now?
<udienz> nobuto, there?
<nobuto> udienz: yes.
<udienz> nobuto, AORMB meeting now?
<head_victim> udienz: if you know who the board are try pinging them I guess.
<udienz> head_victim, ok
<udienz> elky, ejat?
<nobuto> udienz: no activities yet.
<elky> hi
<elky> persia, lifeless, freeflying?
<nigelb> elky: lifeless said g'nite a while back.  I suspect he's out.
<elky> sigh.
<elky> i can't remember the nicks of the others on the board
<head_victim> elky: from the launchpad page it's persia, ejat, vantrax, lifeless, freeflying, amachu and yourself
<elky> ok, so that's why. i thought i was remembering nicks wrong; they're just not on
<head_victim> Apparently not :/
<nigelb> No.  They're not.
 * ejat pinging everybody .. 
<elky> ejat, tried. just you and me so far
<maqtanim> hi elky , ejat
<maqtanim> i was in the last meeting
<maqtanim> and i was approved by you guys
<maqtanim> but did not get any email from ubuntu
<maqtanim> about the membership
<nigelb> maqtanim: launchpad ID?
<maqtanim> will it take longer time?
<udienz> maqtanim, what your lp id?
<head_victim> Sounds like time to set up a mailing list approval, makes sense if you can do it from applicant's wikis and questions.
<maqtanim> https://launchpad.net/~adnan.quaium
<head_victim> Just got to get enough to turn up to agree to it ;)
<udienz> maqtanim, try to send adnan.quaium@ubuntu.com
<maqtanim> udienz, I tried
<maqtanim> but it fails
<maqtanim> seems that the RegionalBoards approved me
<elky> launchpad is timing out on every second pageload at the moment. can someone check that he got added to the team?
<maqtanim> but I was not approved by ubuntu
<nigelb> elky: He wasn't
<nigelb> I don't see ubuntumembers in his team list.
<elky> i sent emails to the board list. ejat are you having more luck with launchpad?
<ejat> added ..
<maqtanim> ejat thanks :)
<ejat> welcome ..
<elky> maqtanim, it won't happen automatically, you may need to wait a week or so for the import to happen
<ejat> elky: only we both again today?
<elky> ejat, sadly yes
<ejat> ouch ..
<maqtanim> elky... hmmm... it's about 14 days since the last meeting :)
<elky> maqtanim, yes, but there's not enough board members for quorum
<maqtanim> yeah ... i saw that...
<maqtanim> not everyone can make for this meeting :(
<maqtanim> well... actually how many members are there in this board?
<udienz> maqtanim, 16
<udienz> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania
<elky> udienz, no there's not.
<maqtanim> udienz i dont think so
<elky> there's 7 on the board.
<udienz> ups sorry
<maqtanim> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania/+members
<maqtanim> only 8 are there
<maqtanim> but I see only elky and ejat regularly in this board-meeting
<nigelb> and persia too actually.
<elky> It's a bad time of the year for working around commitments.
<udienz> it's up..
<maqtanim> udienz i think you can try with other regional boards
<udienz> maqtanim, yes, i try to European Membership board
<maqtanim> at UTC 8pm there is another meeting
<udienz> maqtanim, 4 AM in Indonesia :(
<maqtanim> :(
<maqtanim> that's not so suitable time :(
<udienz> maqtanim, no problem. i will try wo wake up
<maqtanim> wish you good luck
<maqtanim> :)
<udienz> maqtanim, thank you
<maqtanim> elky, ejat
<maqtanim> I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<maqtanim> should be updated
<maqtanim> it still shows the meeting date is Dec 7 2010
<maqtanim> people will be get easily confused
<diwic> the ubuntu-audio-dev meeting the should have started 12 minutes ago is cancelled, since I was the only one showing up.
<diwic> so feel free to keep talking :-)
<ejat> owh .. sorry diwic ..
<diwic> no worries :-)
<ejat> wiki updated ...
<ttx> o/
<kirkland> \o
<JamesPage> o/
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<robbiew> *\o/*
<ttx> happy new year to everyone !
<smoser> o/
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> happy new year ttx!
<hggdh> ding-o-bell, and etc
<Daviey> hmm
 * Daviey looks at the mins from last meeting
<Daviey> Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey>     Tuesday, January 11 2011 16:00 UTC
<ivoks> happy new year :)
<Daviey> Technically we don't have a meeting this week :/
<hggdh> heh
<Daviey> but I'm not sure there will be a meeting next week... so..
<hggdh> so are you going to #startmeeting?
<Daviey> hallyn, I think you are chair?
<hallyn> i deny everything
<SpamapS> smoser
<zul> hi
<Daviey> SpamapS, You were the last chair?
<smoser> i did the one before Christmas.
<zul> i think its me
 * Daviey agrees.. lets get rocking.
<zul> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is zul.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<SpamapS> ahh I think if you forget to update the wiki you have to do it again ;)
<zul> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> robbiew: how is the wiki gardening coming?
<robbiew> done!
<zul> oooh...neat
<robbiew> however I do need to update the Roadmap
<zul> heh....good luck on that :)
<robbiew> ...but first I need to figure that out
<zul> ok...Daviey were you able to reproduce bug 661294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 661294 in linux (Ubuntu) "System lock-up when receiving large files (big data amount) from NFS server" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661294
<zul> im thinking not because it was christmas last week
<Daviey> negative, one of our team has expert knowledge of NFS... i think it might be better to try and do it next week TBH.
<zul> cool
<zul> hggdh: i think bug #684304 is fixed now correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 684304 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "cciss module does not identify resources" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684304
<Daviey> hggdh, ^^?
<hggdh> zul: seems to be -- I was able to have the discs
<hggdh> BUT
<zul> hggdh: if you are around
<hggdh> be aware of bug 694772
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694772 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "Sudden reboot during server ISO install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694772
<hggdh> *NO* server ISOs work currently
<zul> wth?
 * hggdh wonders if UEC will ever be tested this cycle :-(
<Daviey> hggdh, I have tested it on non cciss hardware :P
<zul> so have i :)
<Daviey> !
<zul> hmm...ok
<JamesPage> hggdh: I think that bug 694772 is also effecting all of the automated server iso tests as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694772 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "Sudden reboot during server ISO install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694772
<hggdh> Daviey: the cciss module has been, er, deprecated on Natty
<zul> smoser: to write a blog entry on how to use grub 'fallback' with our images.
<smoser> hm... yeah, i did not do that.
<zul> heh christmas got in the way right?
<smoser> so carry it over. i want to still do it.
<zul> gotcha
<zul> ok then..
<zul> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<zul> i was looking at the burndown charts and i think we are a bit behind...robbiew do you want to mention anything?
<robbiew> heh...yeah...update work items!!!
<robbiew> ...and that we'll review things next week
<robbiew> move and make cuts where necessary
<SpamapS> sorry had to go afk for a minute,
<zul> personally i intend to work on some openstack items this week hopefully
<SpamapS> Also we should probably be mindful of the amount of scope creep
<SpamapS> I noticed alpha2 just had a ton of DONE stuff added right before the break
<zul> right
<zul> so yeah regularily update your work items or robbiew will hunt you down with an ice pick
<zul> anyone have anything else?
<zul> guess not
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hi hggdh how was your holidays?
<hggdh> not as good, ran some tests on the new kernel and hit the block on libc6 update
<zul> *sigh*
<hggdh> so no news (apart from my comments above)
<zul> anyone have any questions for hggdh?
<zul> ok moving on
<hggdh> I just want to make clear that UEC has *NOT* been tested, at all, so far
<SpamapS> one question
<zul> yeah its unfortunate that the test rig has had so many problems
<hggdh> SpamapS: shoot, sir
<SpamapS> what happened to server papercuts?
<SpamapS> I know ttx has moved on and doesn't have as much time for us anymore, but are we going to try and do some this cycle?
<Daviey> ttx tradionally drove them :)
<zul> SpamapS: we might want to bring it up next week and do it later in the cycle
<ttx> hm
<ttx> It didn't work well as a way to encourage community to participate to ubuntu server
<ttx> If you want to continue it I think it needs to be revamped
<Daviey> but it was successful in getting bugs squashed :)
<zul> ttx: right but it did get some exposure with little bugs
<ttx> maybe we should just be using the bitesize tag
<Daviey> ... i think the ~canonical-server 2/3 bugs each mandate needs revisiting tbh
<zul> right...
<SpamapS> or just fixing them in larger bug pushes later in the cycle
<ttx> I don't think we need to redo the whole subcycle nominations shebang
<Daviey> That is one sure way of the "best" ones being picked by those that perhaps are already involved.
<zul> ok
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> I successfully managed to forget about all my work related problems. So if you still have some, I need to be reminded. Still need to get back at the buglist but did not get to it, yet.
<zul> smb: i just have one to bring up
<smoser> we get old bugs squashed for free now with the dhobach patch pilot :)
 * Daviey hugs dholbach
<smb> zul, sure post the bug number
<zul> smb: bug #693042
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693042 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel Panic while booting Natty installer kernel (2.6.37-10-generic) on amd64 ISO" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693042
<zul> smb: heh i was just looking for it
<zul> ara brought that up i think she is going to bring it up again in the kernel team as well
<smb> Hm without time to look very deep
<zul> right...she just brought it up today
<smb> So, I look at that later for more info
<hggdh> it *may* be related to the sudden reboot thingy
<zul> anyone else?
<smoser> just for record
<smoser> natty bugs for ec2:
<smoser>  684875 Patch to Natty 2.6.37-virtual breaks non-EC2 users
<smoser>  686692 natty kernel does not boot on ec2 t1.micro
<smoser> and then, one that i'd  like to see smb's thoughts on
<smb> hggdh, zul It looks like it even might be some fallout of memory corruption/use after free
<smoser> maverick: 614853 kernel panic divide error: 0000 [#1] SMP
<smoser> bug 614853 seems to be an upstream bug, but is hitting on ec2 more commonly than elsewhere. hard to reproduce.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614853 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "kernel panic divide error: 0000 [#1] SMP" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614853
<zul> anyone else?
<Daviey> nope!
<zul> k
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<zul> hi sommer around?
<Daviey> (Considering this meeting is technically unscheduled, he has a valid excuse) :)
<zul> right...
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<zul> hi kim0
<SpamapS> unscheduled?
<robbiew> unscheduled?
<SpamapS> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2011-01-04 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting - AGENDA
<SpamapS> kim0 just left
<robbiew> Daviey: does sommer need an invite?
<SpamapS> sommer came two meetings ago
<Daviey> SpamapS, Ah, in the meeting logs:
<SpamapS> he was away for a while on honeymoon and starting a new job
<Daviey> Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey>     Tuesday, January 11 2011 16:00 UTC
<SpamapS> Daviey: doh!
<smoser> the Canonical server team will be Sprinting next week
<smoser> we'll still plan for same time ?
<zul> i dont see why not
<hggdh> we might as well, the community is still there
<zul> but i guess kim0 is not around either
<SpamapS> Could we do it UDS style and just stream the room?
<Daviey> kim0 did join just before the meeting started :/
<kirkland> zul: Daviey: SpamapS: i wonder if we should plan to have a somewhat regular cobbler update here ... ?
<Daviey> kirkland, That sounds good.
<kirkland> since there are several people working on that, and people in the community interested
<SpamapS> kirkland: I'll 3rd that idea.
<Daviey> kirkland, Starting next week :)
<kirkland> i probably should have brought that up in the development topic section
<zul> kirkland: sure...bring it it up in the open discussion stuff that is next
<kirkland> but decided to wait for open discussion
<kirkland> zul: oh?  this isn't open discussion?  :-)
<zul> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<kirkland> \o/
<kirkland> Cobbler!
<zul> now it is...
<zul> so yeah cobbler
<zul> the canonical server team has been beating cobbler into shape
<kirkland> we have alpha-quality packages in a PPA
<kirkland> and a bzr branch
<kirkland> (imported original source from git)
<kirkland> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/+archive/ppa
<zul> and how functional is it right now?
<kirkland> though i see that package is pretty old (last built 12/13)
<kirkland> zul: only so-so functional
<kirkland> zul: still takes some tweaking
<SpamapS> Also I believe the bulk of the changes have been accepted upstream.
<kirkland> zul:  you were going to update our bzr snapshot ... what are we on now?
<SpamapS> just some of the packaging-specific stuff is left
<zul> kirkland: the snapshot has to be updated, debian and ubuntu support have been accepted upstram and i fixed the tftpboot problem which also been accepted upstream as well
<kirkland> zul: that rocks
<kirkland> SpamapS: same to you
<kirkland> zul: SpamapS: Daviey: safe to say we'll work together on it next week
<Daviey> ack!
<kirkland> and try to push it into the archive
<zul> what needs to be done is the mirroring stuff and uploading the package
<kirkland> and then we can ask people to start testing from that
<kirkland> zul: okay
<kirkland> I'm bringing 2 machines and a router to the sprint, which we can work from
<kirkland> perhaps hallyn and/or Daviey can bring 1 or 2 crash-and-burn boxes?
<hallyn> i've got one, yeah
<hallyn> sort of hoping i can get someone to drive it back for me at the end :)
<JamesPage> kirkland: I can bring an extra with me (ex ttx stock :-))
 * ttx misses his UEC laptops. My desk doesn't look liek a trader's desk anymore
<Daviey> I would like to avoid brining excess hardware this time TBH.
<Daviey> Want to try and travel light if i can.
<zul> right
<kirkland> JamesPage: sweet, thanks
<JamesPage> np
<zul> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<kirkland> Daviey: understood
<Daviey> Although can access it all remotely if needed.
<zul> still the same time next week?
<zul> or do people want to skip it
<hallyn> i think they were saying hold it next week
<Daviey> robbiew, What are your thoughts?
<SpamapS> Lets have it next week
<zul> ok
<SpamapS> and we can maybe ask elmo if he'd be ok with ustreaming it
<robbiew> hold it
<zul> thanks
<zul> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:41.
<robbiew> ustreaming is optional ;)
 * Daviey will need a haircut then.
<zul> thanks for coming
<zul> ill need to wear clothes
<Daviey> (ACTION)
<hallyn> at least a bathrobe
<Daviey> ...
<hggdh> a bit more, temp is expected to be on freezing as high next week
<zul> seriously?
<hggdh> serious. the artic cold front will hit us on Sunday evening/monday morning
<hggdh> (so far, a balmy +10C)
<hggdh> and... if we have snow... you will be able to see how Dallas drive on it
<hggdh> which is to say, crashes all around
<zul> hggdh: thats actually quite warm
<hggdh> for you, yes :-)
 * ara waves
<smb> Hey ara
<JFo> o/
<cking> o/
<smb> \o
<bjf> #
<bjf> # lets "get 'er done"!
<bjf> #
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> i'd like to be the first to welcome sforshee to the team!
<JFo> welcome sforshee! :)
<cking> welcome sforshee
 * tgardner welcomes everyone back after the holiday break.
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (bjf)
<bjf> Nothing new
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (6 bugs, 14 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Alpha 2 Milestoned Bugs (29 across all packages (up 1)) ====
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (144 across all packages (up 11)) ====
<JFo>  * 12 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 5 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<tgardner> except that it look like we'll start supplying an omap3 natty kernel.
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 56 Linux Bugs (up 2)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs
<JFo>  * 97 Linux Bugs (down 14)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:145 (up 3) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> tgardner, noted
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Kernel Configuration Review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Kernel Configuration Review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-config-review
<apw> PV on HVM support (XEN_PCI_PLATFORMDEV) testing is still pending for natty-alpha-2.  The only other remaining action here currently is to report on the final config at beta time, this is waiting on the final kernel version.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Enhancements to the firmware test suite (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-firmware-test-suite-enhancements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Enhancements to the firmware test suite (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-firmware-test-suite-enhancements
<cking> Nothing to report
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Handling of Deviations from Standard Kernels (smb)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-frankenkernel-maintenance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Handling of Deviations from Standard Kernels (smb)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-frankenkernel-maintenance
<smb> I got a little farther with the tool by now. Detection seems to work. The output needs a bit of polish still.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Review of the Stable Maintenance Process (sconklin / bjf)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-process-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Review of the Stable Maintenance Process (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-process-review
<sconklin> The new cadence is working pretty well, but we continue to address issues as they arise. These mostly have to do with
<sconklin> insuring adequate communication between various teams. I'm concerned that thw two-week cycle may not leave us enough
<sconklin> time for exceptions and tools development, and we will be discussing this at the platform rally next week.
<sconklin> We're planning to begin a cycle by uploading new kernels this Friday, which will put us in verification phase during
<sconklin> the rally.
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Current -proposed testing by cert. team  (ara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Current -proposed testing by cert. team  (ara)
<ara> bjf, little to report here, as the last -prop kernel was successfully tested and uploaded to -updates
<ara> I wanted to report on our weekly testing
<ara> We found this bug before the holidays:
<ara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/693042
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 693042 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel Panic while booting Natty installer kernel (2.6.37-10-generic) on amd64 ISO" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ara> and it wasn't being worked upon since then, but I have seen that now apw is on it
<apw> ara, that one is looking like it may be an issue with upstart, see comment #7
<ara> apw, thanks!
<tgardner> ara, I picked that up from your IRC chatter and notified apw
<ara> apw, yes, I saw that bug
<ara> tgardner, thanks
<tgardner> ..
<apw> ara do feel free to reach out and prod us direct on such things
<apw> ..
<ara> apw, I will try this week with the latest ISOs, although it seems it is still there
<ara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Ubuntu Kernel Delta Review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Ubuntu Kernel Delta Review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-ubuntu-delta-review
<apw> 15 of the 19 personal patch reviews are now done.  All of the ubuntu drivers are now updated and reviewed.  Some work remains on compcache which is now superceeded by zram in staging, but some userspace work is required to switch to it.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Kernel Version and Flavours (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-version-and-flavours
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Kernel Version and Flavours (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-version-and-flavours
<apw> We are still working to determine how to provide omap3 kernels, testing is ongoing of a master based kernel.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<jjohansen> Prototype is in progress, but isn't up yet.  It should be working in a day or two.  I started messing with putting the long names in the header but switched to xattrs due to the factors detailed below.
<jjohansen> Storing long names in meta data is problematic for
<jjohansen> â¢ hardlinks - this can be handled somewhat by either allowing a single longname or by allowing multiple longnames as space allows
<jjohansen> Fail over to storing long names in header
<jjohansen> â¢ long directory names - problematic.  There is no header for directories
<jjohansen> â¢ long symlink names - problematic.
<jjohansen> â¢ require update of header (reencryption) on rename
<jjohansen> Fail over to storing long names in xattrs
<jjohansen> â¢ problematic for filesystems that don't support xattrs
<jjohansen> â¢ leaks fact that long name is present unless all files are given longname xattr
<jjohansen> â¢ requires update of xattr (reencryption) on rename
<jjohansen> Combine current FNEK names and longnames requires encoding information to that a given name was long and stored differently, this leaks some information about the filename.  This leak provides more information than the xattr on the file, in that it provides information on which dentry is long when a file has multiple names.
<jjohansen> hrmm that didn't paste nice :(
<bjf> done?
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Natty (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Natty (apw)
<apw> The main distro kernel is now at 2.6.37-11.25 (v2.6.37-rc7 based).  v2.6.37-rc8 has already released and we are expecting v2.6.37-final shortly, we are planning one more upload before the Rally.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                   || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                           ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux                            || 2.6.15.56            || 2.6.15.56            ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                           ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                        || 2.6.31-307.22        || 2.6.31-307.23        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                            || 2.6.31-22.69         || 2.6.31-22.70         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                           ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux                            || 2.6.32.27.49         || 2.6.32.27.49         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick || 2.6.35.22.34         || 2.6.35.23.35         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick      || 2.6.35-22.34~lucid1  || 2.6.35-23.41~lucid1  ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                   || 1.34.1               || 1.34.2               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                           ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux                            || 2.6.35-24.42         || 2.6.35-903.20        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                   || 2.6.35-903.19        || 2.6.35-903.20        ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-linaro                || 2.6.35.1008.13       || 2.6.35.1010.14       ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-linaro                     || 2.6.35-1008.15       || 2.6.35-1010.17       ||    6 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                       || 2.6.35.24.28         || 2.6.35.24.29         ||    3 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                   ||                      || 1.38.2               ||    2 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                           ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  57 Natty Bugs (up 19)
<JFo>  1123 Maverick Bugs (down 4)
<JFo>  1045 Lucid Bugs (down 51)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 25 maverick bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 75 lucid bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 188 maverick bugs (up 11)
<JFo>   * 195 lucid bugs (down 3)
<JFo>   * 39 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 13 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 3 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> The next bug day will be next week. As we are just returning from the holiday's and we are winding back up,
<JFo> I'd like to focus on bugs in the new state and getting them moved in the appropriate direction. I'll send
<JFo> the information out later today or tomorrow.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> I am continuing testing on the script that replaces one tag with another. I should have it finished this week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<tgardner> sconklin, why is linux-linaro in your maverick list? Its no longer supported by Linaro, and we sure as heck don't own it.
<JFo> o/
<sconklin> tgardner: tool failuer
<bjf> heh
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> JFo, go
<JFo> look forward to seeing all of you next week in Dallas!
<JFo> :)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:21.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<kamal> thanks bjf
<cking> thanks, fast and efficient as ever
<daker> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 04 2011, 19:31:16
<highvoltage>  * EMEA Membership Board meeting in around 5 minutes
 * thorwil cheers for daker
<highvoltage> you'll have to contain that excitement for just a bit longer :)
<highvoltage> popey, czajkowski, ogra, drubin, stgraber: EMEA RMB meeting time
<ogra> moop
 * drubin is here
<popey> o/
 * stgraber waves
 * popey clears out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<popey> czajkowski is stuck in traffic so wont make it
<drubin> wow much better!
<popey> i got a text from her just now
<ogra> slacker !
<drubin> This seems like it is going to be a short one.
<ogra> she needs a smartphone :)
<highvoltage> really? even the dumbest of phones can do IRC these days :)
<ogra> yeah, but typing on a numberpad is hard at decent speed
<drubin> OT
<popey> highvoltage: wanna chair?
<highvoltage> ok, just don't sit on me
<popey> heh
<highvoltage> victorp doesn't seem to be present
<victorp> i am here
<highvoltage> ah! there you are, please introduce yourself
<popey> hang on
<popey> we going to use the bot?
<victorp> hanging on
<highvoltage> popey: no
<victorp> :0
<popey> oh, ok
<highvoltage> victorp: please continue
<popey> why?
<victorp> Hi! My name is Victor Palau. Originally from Barcelona (Spain), now living in London.
<victorp> I have been involved in Open Source previously in the mobile phone space. I started following the Ubuntu community when setting up the Symbian Foundation, and I developed a passion for how things were done in Ubuntu.
<victorp> I recently joined Canonical (since Sept'10), and I am leading the team that is responsible for the Ubuntu Certified programme and also for the enablement of new hardware such as Sandybridge in Ubuntu. Recently involved on the SRU testing and Natty alpha1 across our HW lab.
<victorp>  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/VictorPalau
<victorp> and that is me ;)
<ogra> victorp, nice move to get ara and mdz to speak up for you :)
<victorp> oh well, they are nice people
<ogra> indeed
<drubin> victorp: How were you involved with Ubuntu before September 2010 ?
<victorp> as a user
<victorp> not as a contributor really
<victorp> i have blog about my experiences a bit
<ogra> do you have a LP url that lists all pcert bugs ?
<highvoltage> popey: if you prefer, we can, I don't see a particular need for it
<popey> ok
<victorp> ogra - hold on I will look
 * ogra is fine without bot as long as someone manages to count 
<victorp> ogra https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=pcert
<victorp> also recently created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/certification
<highvoltage> ogra: I'll use a calculator if I get stuck ;)
<victorp> :)
<drubin> victorp: Can you say a little about how you came to join Canonical and the Ubuntu Certified  program?
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> made,it
<victorp> sure
<victorp> I have been involved for a long time with Symbian
<victorp> (the OS for phones)
<victorp> and a few years back I was part of the team
<victorp> that moved it to open source
<highvoltage> victorp: you have great recommendations from Ara and Matt, and your recent work seems really great, but is there other Ubuntu specific work (as in, loco team involvement, any bug fixing, packaging, etc) that you have been involved in?
<victorp> as part of doing so we look into how ubuntu does manage the projects
<ogra> highvoltage, a buglist is above
<victorp> that is how I started following it up and setup a bugsquad for that
<victorp> highvoltage - not a really good programmer here :)
<victorp> my strength is on testing and team management
<ogra> how are your plans to involve the community more into certification ?
<victorp> ogra - so I kept an eye for roles in Canonical that I could contribute more fultime
<ogra> any creative ideas for the near future ?
<popey> I would have expected more than 25 bugs reported for a bank of 200 machines being tested..?
<victorp> ogra - I think we need to make sure we have a way for the community to provide feedback
<victorp> popey - me too, that is one of my pet hates
<victorp> ogra- we have setup a public lp project
<ogra> ++
<victorp> and we are planning to link from that to the certification pages
<ogra> and make some noise in the community too
<victorp> for example
 * highvoltage has no further questions
<ogra> i think the wikipage is a very good start
<victorp> I bought a vostro 3300
<victorp> and has a few bugs
<victorp> so I add notes to the certification
<victorp> but that is only because a I work there, I want to make sure that everyone in the community can provide that sort of feedback
<ogra> ++
<ogra> ok, i'm done with questions too
<czajkowski> how woyld you go about gwtting community people involved
<czajkowski> sorry on phone
<victorp> ogra - would like ideas on how to make the right noise in the community about it!
<ogra> create something like the hug-day programme
<victorp> well - I think we need to make sure we reach the right people that
<victorp> that was for czajkowski
<victorp> :)
<ogra> give people rewards (SWAG and the like) if they are really deeply involved etc
<victorp> I found out that actually not many people know about certification
<highvoltage> great. shall we vote?
<victorp> so start by making sure that advocates of ubuntu know about it
<czajkowski> ok
<popey> ok
<victorp> plan to keep blogging a
<victorp> oops
<drubin> yes ready to vote.
<victorp> :)
<stgraber> ready to vote
 * victorp shuts up now
<highvoltage> VOTE: victorp for Ubuntu membership, council members may vote -1 (against) / +0 (abstain) / +1 for
<czajkowski> +0
<popey> -1
<highvoltage> +0 [ great work leading hardware certification team, but I'd like to see more depth and breadth of Ubuntu work ]
<popey> I'd like to see more evidence of work done, and more community involvement
<ogra> +0 ... i would be +1 for future plans and taking the community into account in a manager role where you not necessarily would need to, can you make that happen (or get started at it) and come back with some more under your belt ?
<victorp> popey - could you give me some examples please?
<stgraber> +0 [ you seem fairly new around here and I'd welcome wider participation within the Ubuntu community, keep up the great work ]
<victorp> ogra - sure
<drubin> +0 just not there yet. Can do more also with a bit more work I see this program taking off :)
<highvoltage> it's also hard to judge work based on a team. the wiki page says "The Hardware Certification team does...", it's hard to add that to a person's contribution when it's not direct contributions listed
<popey> victorp: well, I am unaware of any community involvement in the hct
<ogra> highvoltage, well, he leads the team ...
<highvoltage> ^^^ victorp, for next time, I hope you apply again
<popey> i realise the testing team consists of some community people, but nothing more specific on your wiki page details what your team does with the community
<highvoltage> ogra: then he could list what he did as a leader to make the team work better
<ogra> leading it in the right direction is surely a good contribution if the result is a working cert programme with much community involvement
<highvoltage> ogra: that team also appears to be an internal canonical team, it doesn't seem part of the Ubuntu project (please correct me if I'm wrong)
<ogra> it certifies ubuntu
<ogra> indeed its currently made of canonical employees
<victorp> highvoltage - we run test on every SRU and weekly on natty for quality testing and we share this results with the community
<ogra> but note that it exists for years already
<victorp>  + certification
<victorp> ogra ack
<ogra> and now there seems to be a direction towards the community
<ogra> so thats imho a valuable contribution if we can measure it
<drubin> maybe we should side line this and move on?
<highvoltage> victorp: I hope that you do get more involved or change your wiki page somewhat and re-apply, I do however stand by what I said. You sound like a great guy and I'm sure you'll get membership at some point
 * drubin agrees with highvoltage
<czajkowski> can we keep moving sorry we have a lot to get through
<highvoltage> ogra: I'd like to discuss this with you, let's do that after the meeting if you have some time
<victorp> thanks, I hope to apply again  ;)
<victorp> thanks
<ogra> highvoltage, sure
<highvoltage> RESULT: -1, and we hope to see victorp apply again in the future after more contrubution
<highvoltage> MichealH: you've been quiet today
<drubin> I prefer the new bots syntax makes greping easier
<highvoltage> MichealH: are you around?
<MichealH> highvoltage: I have?
<UndiFineD> \o/
<MichealH> I am indeed
<highvoltage> drubin: ok, next time you can chair
<akshatj> good luck MichealH
<MichealH> Shall I introduce myself?
<MichealH> Hi Guys! I am Micheal Harker and I am here to go for Ubuntu Membership. I beleive that to keep Ubuntu Open Source, people ,like me should contribute to Ubuntu. I currently do and I am well noted for doing things for Ubuntu Tour and IRC in Gerneral. I hope that My request is enough to sustain the requirements to be a Member.
<highvoltage> "people like me" - who are people like you?
<MichealH> I am a team leader of Ubuntu Tour
<drubin> highvoltage: I was implying you were the bot :) and I like your format. Think we should use it going forward seems easier then moot
<highvoltage> drubin: ah, ok, I misunderstood :)
<MichealH> highvoltage: People who get involved by organising teams and helping take on key roles in Teams
<MichealH> Ddorda: Around?
<Ddorda> âMichealH: indeed :)
<MichealH> I have a few people to tell you guys how they feel about my contributions
<highvoltage> MichealH: I browsed through the ubuntu tour content this morning, there's quite a lot of pages written about it already! it was quite impressive
<MichealH> highvoltage: I made around 5 or 10 of them
<Ddorda> âI'm here to support MichealH. i know him for long time and i can tell how active and useful he is. he always help where he can and contribute where ever he is needed
<highvoltage> MichealH: the LP team lists that there are over 200 members in the team. how many of them are active? and have you had any problems so far in managing the team?
<drubin> MichealH: are there any plans to get the project added to Ubuntu main archives instead of just a ppa
<MichealH> highvoltage: I dont do much organisation stuff but I know at least 50 - 75 are active
<UndiFineD> I am here to support MichealH as well, he is a good leader for Ubutu-Tour and he recently started contributing to SpeechControl
<MichealH> drubin: We are hoping for it to be either added to Natty (Could be possible) But definatly in the future
<MichealH> I also get involved in Speech Control
<MichealH> Its a progect to help people with Disabilities to use the computer
<MichealH> Im not a genious at programming but I am helping nonetheless
 * popey goes 'eek' at the tutorial linked from your page about 64-bit flash
<highvoltage> MichealH: the Ubuntu Youth wiki page says that the team is currently being revive the team?
<czajkowski> MichealH: so before you were here and you were involved in Ubuntu youth? are you still invovled there?
<czajkowski> MichealH: and to what level ?
<MichealH> highvoltage: huh? Can you please be a little clearer?
<highvoltage> MichealH: on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuYouth, it says under current tasks "Currently we are in the process of revamping the team's project(s), goals, and direction. When all is decided, the tasks and projects will be listed here."
<MichealH> czajkowski: I was a leader but I stepped down, I am now a Member there and I help whenever someone shouts
<czajkowski> MichealH: why did you step down ?
<highvoltage> MichealH: are you involved with the revamping project, and if so what is your role(s) in that?
<MichealH> highvoltage: Nope that is handled by the council
<MichealH> czajkowski: Becuase people were loosing intrest. I was simply 'not ready' for leadership at that time
<MichealH> And as you can see I am alot better at leading a project
<czajkowski> well a project in many ways is like a team MichealH
<MichealH> czajkowski: I understand that
<highvoltage> any further questions?
<MichealH> I, also have gotten my relatives intrested in Ubuntu
<MichealH> My dad loves it!
<MichealH> He likes how It is fast and especially Compiz ;)
<highvoltage> ok, doesn't seem so
<highvoltage> VOTE: MichaelH for Ubuntu membership, council members may vote -1 (against) / +0 (abstain) / +1 (for)
<MichealH> I have tons of plans for the future but my main goal is to sustain contribution
<popey> -1 I'm seeing plans and ideas but little actual evidence of work done for the project.
<czajkowski> -1 I'd love to see you get work done but at present I don't see it.
<stgraber> -1
<highvoltage> +0 [ Great enthusiasm, but little documented contributions ]
<ogra> +0 good enthusiasm, needs more evidence
<MichealH> So I need to focus on my wikipage?
<highvoltage> RESULT: -3
<drubin> +0 [Need to actually record what you have done]
<MichealH> Or just genearal evidence?
<highvoltage> oh, sorry drubin I forgot about you
<czajkowski> MichealH: it's not about the wiki, it's about doing items, rather than coming up with some good ideas.
<ogra> well, you said you wrote about 10 pages on the tour already
<drubin> MichealH: link to work you have done.. So we can click on the links and see
<ogra> point to them ...
<ogra> etc
<MichealH> Can I geather some evidence?
<highvoltage> MichealH: I nearly wanted to give you a +1 just based on that this is the... 4th time we see you?
<popey> I'd also like some QA on your tutorials.
<MichealH> highvoltage: Indeed
<czajkowski> MichealH: sure can we talk to  you after the meeting, just we have a good few to get through tonight
<MichealH> Okay
<highvoltage> MichealH: but I think you need to take a step back and show some patience before applying again, and wait until you have more contributions
<czajkowski> thank you
<drubin> MichealH: Also non of your recomendations are from people in your current teams you list :)
<MichealH> popey: Some QA?
<popey> yes
<popey> will talk later
<highvoltage> stefano-palazzo doesn't seem to be around for now
<highvoltage> ricotz doesn't seem to be around for now
<highvoltage> daker: hi! please introduce yourself
<daker> Hi, i am  Adnane Belmadiaf from Morocco, 22years old I'm a Web developer, I have been using Ubuntu since 2008 as my primary OS.. I am involved in different projects in the Ubuntu community.
<thorwil> \o/
<daker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdnaneBelmadiaf
<ogra> wow
<highvoltage> yeah, exactly
 * ogra is impressed by that amount of contributions 
<daker> thank you
<ogra> and by that proper list
<highvoltage> I don't have any questions, is there any comments from any supporters or any questions before we vote?
<czajkowski> yay testimonials :D
<ogra> *and* by the testimonials
<thorwil> just: hooray ;)
 * ricotz is sorry
<daker> ã
<ogra> no questions, that wikipage talks for itself
<highvoltage> VOTE: daker for Ubuntu membership, council members may vote -1 (against) / +0 (abstain) / +1 (for)
<ogra> +1
<highvoltage> +1 [ clear sustained contributions, works well with other people ]
<drubin> +1
<popey> oooo
<popey> +1
<popey> easy
<stgraber> +1
<highvoltage> RESULT: +5
<highvoltage> (if my math is right)
<daker> Woo ã
<ogra> welcome daker
<highvoltage> daker: congratulations and welcome!
<popey> nice one!
<thorwil> congratulations, daker! well deserved :)
<daker> Yay
<daker> thanks you all
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, daker
<drubin> congrats
 * daker hugs you all
<highvoltage> ricotz: hi! no problem :)
<highvoltage> ricotz: would you like to introduce yourself?
<ricotz> highvoltage, was pretty busy :(
<popey> added drubin to ~ubuntumembers
<ricotz> hello everyone, my name is Rico Tzschichholz and I am living in Germany.
<drubin> wow bit late but thanks
<czajkowski> +1
<czajkowski> oi
<czajkowski> can I vote
<drubin> that was at popey :) not ricotz
<highvoltage> czajkowski: that's for daker, right?
<popey> oh, hang on
<ogra> czajkowski, what do you pay ?
<czajkowski> highvoltage: yes
<popey> i meant daker :)
<czajkowski> sorry
<highvoltage> czajkowski: ok, adding it for the record
<czajkowski> highvoltage: thank you!
<ricotz> highvoltage, may i?
<czajkowski> ricotz: you have some pretty good testimonials
<czajkowski> well done
<highvoltage> ricotz: hmm? feel free to say anything in suport of your application
<ricotz> alright
<ricotz> I am leading developer of Docky and managing the well known Gnome-Shell PPA.
<ricotz> I also use every oportunity to convince people to use Ubuntu/linux and open source software like OpenOffice/LibreOffice.
<ricotz> This year I also set up a small buisness IT infrastucture using Ubuntu Lucid and LTSP for a server/thinclient environment.
 * drubin is happy to vote
<ricotz> Further information on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ricotz + https://launchpad.net/~ricotz, as you may already looked at
<highvoltage> ricotz: do you think there's a chance that gnome-shell will make it in to natty in time for release?
<highvoltage> ricotz: if so, are you doing any work on that?
<ricotz> highvoltage, very unlikey at this time, since the gnome 3 stack is in a bad condition
<ogra> highvoltage, it has to, else the canonical PR team will suffer :P "yes you can easily switch from unity to gnome-shell" :P
<ricotz> but there will be an official ppa which already exists
<highvoltage> ogra: heh, nice :)
<highvoltage> ok, any further questions?
 * ogra has none
<ogra> (i like the fact that someone uses LTSP in business (finally))
<highvoltage> heh
<ricotz> (yeah it works ;) )
<highvoltage> ricotz: heh, you realise that stgraber and ogra is LTSP upstream? :P
<highvoltage> VOTE: ricotz for Ubuntu membership, council members may vote -1 (against) / +0 (abstain) / +1 (for)
<highvoltage> +1 [ great packaging / bug fixing work in an area that is much needed ]
<ogra> +1 (not because of LTSP though) :)
<drubin> +1 [Dev stuff but focused on community and getting other people invovled]
<popey> +1 - great work providing great services for the community (and I like docky ;)
<drubin> at least that is how it comes across. IMHO very good quality so well done ricotz
<czajkowski> +1
<czajkowski> well done
<stgraber> +1
<highvoltage> RESULT: +6
<ricotz> thank you very much! all of you
<highvoltage> ricotz: congratulations and welcome!
<drubin> ricotz: Hope to see you continue doing what you are doing. Congrats
<ricotz> highvoltage, ty
<ogra> great to have you on board
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, ricotz
<popey> ricotz: added to ~ubuntumembers
<highvoltage> udienz: You're up next, would you like to introduce yourself?
<ricotz> drubin, ty, if my time schedule works ;)
<highvoltage> (and tell us more about yourself)
<highvoltage> udienz: are you around?
<highvoltage> I'm surprised udienz doesn't apply for MOTU, he's done some nice bug fixing work in universe
<czajkowski> well their wiki does say limited internet
<ogra> yeah, he seeems to focus on ftbfs
<ogra> thats rare and awesome
<popey> yeah
<popey> very much needed
<czajkowski> ok so we can close meeting and let the CC start on time this month :)D
<bioterror> he was online earlier, what a shame not now
<popey> I've cleared out the wiki page but left udienz on the list for next time maybe
<drubin> he says "he used mobile connections" so might be unstable
<czajkowski> great
<highvoltage> udienz: we're ending this meeting, feel free to apply next month. I suggest you consider applying for MOTU rights with the DMB in the meantime, which will automatically grant you membership as well.
<popey> bah, wiki is broken
<highvoltage> Thanks for attending everyone
<drubin> thanks highvoltage for charing you did a great job.
<popey> nice one highvoltage
<drubin> chairing even.
<highvoltage> I'll send results to all the relavant lists
<highvoltage> Meeting adjourned
<czajkowski> highvoltage: thanks for chairing
<highvoltage> thanks :)
<ogra> yeah, thanks
<ogra> (and sorry for missing last month)
<czajkowski> ogra: blame the iphone alarm :p
<ogra> i blame vacation
<ogra> i was forced to burn my vacation days (had left a full month)
<czajkowski> ogra: jammy
<ogra> was nice :)
<czajkowski> highvoltage: *hugs*
<pleia2> ok, time for the Community Council meeting :)
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/
<pleia2> once again we don't have much of an agenda (the only item on it right now requires direct followup)
<highvoltage> czajkowski: *hugs*
<pleia2> so if there is anyone who wishes to bring anything up, you're welcome to, we don't have quorum to make decisions but it can be finished on list
<charlie-tca> o/
<charlie-tca> Do you have any status on Xubuntu Project Lead?
 * pleia2 checks
<highvoltage> pleia2: all I have is thank you for keeping CC things going and caring!
<czajkowski> pleia2: does indeed rock
<pleia2> charlie-tca: it looks like the CC only received one recommendation for leader
<charlie-tca> Now what do I do?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I think from here we decide how to handle it, maybe just a vote of confidence vote from the xubuntu community?
<charlie-tca> Do I ask them to approve it?
<charlie-tca> Okay, Thanks
<pleia2> the CC can approve, or the community can approve, I don't see a problem either way, you're the canididate and I don't think there will be problems with confirmation :)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I just need to get something formalized on it.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I'll follow up to the nomination email confirming what we just discussed here
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<pleia2> highvoltage: that reminds me, if you want to announce the new edubuntu council member, feel free to (I'll x-post to fridge)
<highvoltage> pleia2: ok, great. I'm doing the e-mail right now
<pleia2> charlie-tca: email sent :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much
<highvoltage> pleia2: e-mail sent
<pleia2> highvoltage: oh! that's good too, but I actually meant the new *edubuntu council member* we installed last week :)
<pleia2> Marc Gariepy
<highvoltage> pleia2: oh, right. sorry my mind was kind of one-tracked on emea there for a moment :)
<highvoltage> pleia2: ok, I'll post it on the Edubuntu blog and edubuntu-devel mailing list, sounds good?
<pleia2> perfect
<pleia2> I'll x-post your -devel mail to the fridge
<highvoltage> perfect
<pleia2> maybe also mention in the email that you moved to 2 year terms
<pleia2> so we extended everyone (except nixternal)
<highvoltage> Jordan Ericksson stepped down, but he sent the email in which he said so to the wrong person so no one ever got it :)
<pleia2> doh
<highvoltage> that means we'll be down from 6 council members to 5, which isn't a problem, but we should then bring our quorum down from 4 to 3
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> 5 is more standard anyway
<pleia2> I seem to recall we did 6 because there were 6 nominees and they all got the same number of votes :)
<highvoltage> indeed, and it gave us at least some redundency
<pleia2> highvoltage: do you have a copy of Jordan's step down email? if so fowarding it to the CC would be great, then I can deactivate his membership in the team
<highvoltage> pleia2: I didn't get the email (since he sent it to the wrong person), but he e-mailed the CC directly on 2010-12-09
<pleia2> your latest email was sufficient, I'll deactivate tomorrow unless there are objections :)
<pleia2> thanks
<highvoltage> ok, thanks a lot
<highvoltage> now I can finally tick the edubuntu council elections off from my todo list :)
<pleia2> me too!
<czajkowski> pleia2: re staffing of boards?
<czajkowski> pleia2: any word?
<pleia2> czajkowski: no word, looks like we got tied up in a boards discussion about merging boards
<czajkowski> I definately would opose that
<pleia2> now that the holidays are over we should try to push through that blocker
<pleia2> czajkowski: the Merge RMBs thread was emailed to all the board lists, can you reply to the thread?
<czajkowski> I thought I did...
<pleia2> not seeing one
<maco> nope
<maco> just to the one about quorum being hard to get
<maco> (from which the thread in question branched off)
<pleia2> ah, yeah
<czajkowski> done
<pleia2> thanks :)
<czajkowski> I'd have the conversation with people just not on the thread.
<czajkowski> np
<pleia2> I'll nudge people about moving forward this week, hopefully we can get at least a request for nominees mail out
<czajkowski> nods
<highvoltage> if I recall correctly the suggestion was more of an informal merge. or perhaps, make it more formal that boards can 'borrow' board members from each other as necessary
<czajkowski> highvoltage: but that already happens for the asia board.
<highvoltage> czajkowski: yep, I don't think it's written anywhere in the docs, is it?
<czajkowski> dont think so
<highvoltage> czajkowski: if we're doing something and it works and it's undocumented, then it should be documented and made part of the process. that's what I mean by 'formalising' the process.
<pleia2> yeah, we need to formally say it's ok, but a full merge makes me wince too
<czajkowski> highvoltage: doesn't always work, we're online and not asked sometimes
<highvoltage> so it's not necessarilly a case that something needs to change, but the documentation should probably be updated to reflect reality
<pleia2> highvoltage: there was a suggestion for a formal full merge (dissolving regional entirely and just dumping us all in one team)
<czajkowski> highvoltage: or a board gets restaffed properly so it doesnt need to borrow board members so it can operate properly tbh
<highvoltage> czajkowski: even more reason to formalise it then. because then there could be process about contact details, etc
<highvoltage> pleia2: ok
<czajkowski> highvoltage: I dont mind once in a blue moon, more than one month in  a row and something is up with the board imo, either their time is wrong or they need more members
<highvoltage> czajkowski: yeah. there's some interesting things about that though
<highvoltage> czajkowski: for example, stgraber and I are on the EMEA board, and while we're both from that region we now live in the Americas time zone. The EMEA timeslot happens to be super convenient for us even though we're outside of that timezone, and we've had other people from this area apply too because it works for them
<czajkowski> highvoltage: it doesnt really work for americas, but asia can be staffed by emea folks in some cases due to the timezones where as you and stgraber could do americans
<czajkowski> but again, asia should really have a fully functioning board.
<highvoltage> czajkowski: so I sometimes wonder whether it really makes sense distributing by region where it might be better to just have 4 meetings a month at different times
<czajkowski> or else fall under  EMEA and Americas which may upset some folks.
<highvoltage> (not that I'm pushing for that, I'm just throwing the information out there)
<highvoltage> yep, aisa can lean on emea, emea can lean on americas, americas could lean again on asia for extra members
<highvoltage> and sorry if my conversation isn't particularly constructive, I'm just babbling now :)
<maco> i sat in on asia before. they meet around sunrise for my timezone
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-01-05
<mvo> hello
<jhunt> hi
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> hello o/
<robbiew> let's get this bad boy going
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> mvo:?
<mvo> I need a minute to prepare, sorry
<mvo> could someone else go before me?
<ev> on it
<ev> Very short week.  Public holiday on Monday.  Mostly working on moving the installer testing to LDTP. The Sikuli tests were nice, but something in the chain was pegging the CPU. This is much more flexible anyway, as ATK allows you to name the objects, so there's less of a chance things will change.
<ev> Fixed a bug in casper, working on bringing usb-creator up to speed.
<ev> (done)
<mvo> otherwise it will be "work; then vacation"
<robbiew> wow...look at that...ev on it today!
<ev> I know, right?
<robbiew> barry?
<robbiew> thnx ev
<barry> working on bug 618809 (ethos ftbfs due to libvala changes and py27 transition); switched main desktop to natty; filed bugs 697412 (emacs font problem), bug 697400 (natty classic desktop problem); done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 618809 in ethos (Ubuntu) "libvala-dev -> libvala-0.10-dev transition" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 697412 in emacs23 (Ubuntu) "Emacs won't start, complaining about font" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697412
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 697400 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) ""Classic desktop" does not work in natty" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697400
<robbiew> "switched main desktop to natty"...\o/
<barry> mostly working well actually
<robbiew> welcome to the funhouse! :P
<barry> :)
<robbiew> jhunt?
<jhunt> sorry - one sec...
<jhunt> Finished coding for Upstart override feature. Currently working on tests
<jhunt> for this (lengthy!).  Tidied up lp:#683605.
<cjwatson> upstart tests are about ten times as long as the corresponding features :-)
<jhunt> Have written a "clone" tool that wraps clone(2) that I'm going to use for upstart testing. Might be worth getting this into an Ubuntu pkg but unsure which one.
<robbiew> heh
<jhunt> cjwatson: indeed!
<cjwatson> send it to util-linux upstream, they'd probably like it
<jhunt> Also, we've got a load of new man pages coming along for the natty release of upstart including something that will look similar to this:
<cjwatson> they went through a spate of adding command-line tools corresponding to system calls
<jhunt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/550668/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/550668/
<jhunt> also, looking at a few upstart bugs.
<robbiew> wow...nice
<barry> nice
<cjwatson> yay, sensible use of tbl ;-)
<jhunt> robbiew: I'd like to speak to keybuk about bug 694772.
<mvo> nice
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694772 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Sudden reboot during server ISO install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694772
<robbiew> jhunt: send him a twitter message
 * robbiew isn't joking...sadly
<robbiew> lol
<jhunt> I don't think there is a quick fix for upstart although clearly Loic+Clint have a script fix for the inst script.
<cjwatson> right.  I don't think it's too urgent for upstart, though
<cjwatson> a proper fix amounts to state passing, doesn't it?
<jhunt> I think he might be aligning to US times already :)
<jhunt> yup
<barry> and west coast at that :)
<robbiew> jhunt: he's been aligned to the US for awhile now..ll
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> and we put that on the o-series slate
<jhunt> :-D
<jhunt> k
<cjwatson> though, hmm
<jhunt> I'll add upstart testing to the sprint page as I've got some further ideas.
<jhunt> EOT
<cjwatson> maybe don't write it off entirely, ISTR that there was some bigger issue Clint identified there
<cjwatson> there was a problem with init not releasing its hold on the root filesystem on reboot
<cjwatson> which IIRC was a patch that'd been accidentally dropped
<cjwatson> *that* much does need to be fixed ...
<cjwatson> that's bug 672177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 672177 in upstart (Ubuntu) "libc6 upgrade causes umount to fail on shutdown because init cannot be restarted" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672177
<robbiew> SpamapS: awake?
<robbiew> guess not
<robbiew> okay..moving on
<robbiew> mvo?
<mvo> shorter week because of christmas, did:
<mvo> apt-ddtp: code cleanup, upload new translsations to natty;Python-apt: debug/fix refcount crash (LP: #691134), took a good while to figure that out; rnr-server: fixes in the rnrclient, adding more tests, add validation for days; Softare-center: review branches (another new contributor *wooh*, great work from gary-lasker, ...), use gobject based ubuntussologin, lots of work on ratings&reviews including testing against a real instance, almost r
<mvo> eady (but not quite :/)
<doko> heh, christmas was two weeks ago
<robbiew> doko: but with 2 kids...it lasts MUCH longer ;)
<cjwatson> Christmas *season* ends today, technically ;-)
<mvo> very true!
<cjwatson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmastide
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmastide
<robbiew> mvo: thnx
<robbiew> doko?
<doko> initial LO packages (is this foundations? ;P) GCC-4.6, the usual linker fixes, now preparing for archive test rebuids, for current natty and natty with GCC-4.6
<doko> leaving the rest of python2.7 for barry ;p
<barry> \o/
<doko> done
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> cjwatson?
<cjwatson> done: merged a bunch of cool upstream grub stuff, including btrfs and squashfs support; finally finished merging console-setup, just waiting to sync up with X folks; started work on converting CD menu to grub; discovered fun security hole, working with kees on that
<cjwatson> todo: continue CD menu work; a bit more sprint preparation; some merge catchup
<cjwatson> oh, and todo: make sure I have a valid ESTA so they don't turn me away at the border ...
<cjwatson> --
<mvo> btrfs support!!!
<cjwatson> upstream cleanroomed the whole thing
<cjwatson> kinda impressive
<robbiew> wow...indeed
<cjwatson> squashfs support will be really handy when we switch to grub on the CDs too - we can drop those scary kernel-in-a-different-place hack
<mvo> so we can have /boot on btrfs now?!?
<cjwatson> s
<cjwatson> should work
<mvo> thats cool :)
<cjwatson> not tested even by me :-)
<robbiew> lol
<mvo> what could possibly go wrong?
 * mvo tests
<cjwatson> though the installer still disallows it, I need to lift that restriction
<ev> kernel-in-a-different-place> living under casper/ rather than in the squashfs, I take it?
<highvoltage> cjwatson: cool! that will save some space too!
<cjwatson> highvoltage: actually probably not, we only keep the kernel in one place
<mvo> I would like to talk about the default subvolume setup on a new btrfs install during the sprint (put that on the agenda already). to optimize for snapshots on packages etc
<cjwatson> highvoltage: there's a scary installer hack to cope with that
<highvoltage> ah
<cjwatson> ev: right, I'd much prefer it to be in the squashfs long-run
<cjwatson> mvo: totally
<cjwatson> I see it's on the agenda
<ev> indeed
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<robbiew> not bad...in terms of the trend line
<mvo> I think we need to postpone the client parts of donations-through software-center, no design yet, no server, I strongly doubt that this can make it
<robbiew> and I haven't looked through the bugs...except for the ones QA nag me about ;)
<robbiew> mvo: sounds good to me
<mvo> but we can talk about it during the sprint :)
<robbiew> mvo: sure...will need to make sure the right folks know it's not coming
<mvo> indeed
<cjwatson> ev: there's a bunch of old gsoc usbcreator workitems on our chart - are those actually planned for natty, or are they only there by accident?
<ev> most are on there by accident, but there's a few I'd like to handle at the sprint.
<ev> I'll give it a clean up
<robbiew> ev: thnx...I wasn't sure about those
<ev> the separate /home stuff is blocked on ivanka for design work.  We have plans to discuss it further at the sprint.
<ev> err ubiquity-preserve-home
<robbiew> ok, cool
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News
<jhunt> unity works in virtualbox 4! :)
<robbiew> good news:  I'll be managing the team for awhile longer...as our lead candidate fell through :/
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> if you're anything like me you might have nearly forgotten about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews - check the schedule to see when your next patch pilot day is
<barry> robbiew: dang
<cjwatson> (mine's Friday, apparently)
<barry> (for you :)
<robbiew> cjwatson: ah...good reminder...thnx
<ev> I've got a key to the server room in Millbank now.  Also, the LDTP-based installer tests seem to be working, save a too-short timeout and a hard lock which I'm currently thinking is an OOM condition.
<robbiew> barry: heh...no worries...we've got a few good referrals....we'll find the right person....or just give it back to cjwatson :P
<robbiew> j/k
 * cjwatson runs
<robbiew> lol
<barry> dang, i missed my day yesterday :(
<robbiew> barry: hmm...so maybe we need calendar entries or something for folks
<barry> robbiew: yeah.  i'm going to fill out my calendar now with known dates
<robbiew> or just have dholbach send emails...though I doubt he'd like that approach :P
<dholbach> robbiew, +1
<robbiew> oh great...dholbach will do it!
<robbiew> joking of course
<dholbach> I just updated the schedule for february - if you want to swap slots, etc - just do it - you don't need me to update the wiki :)
<dholbach> (there's a template schedule commented out on the wiki below)
 * dholbach now stops interrupting other folks' meetings :)
<jhunt> ev: re the hard lock, have you investigated a usb serial console setup?
<ev> jhunt: not yet. I don't have the hardware for that.
<ev> some day I will learn how to use netconsole
<ev> and it will be awesome
 * robbiew lived by serial console back in is IBM QA days
<robbiew> because graphics SUCKED on POWER
<robbiew> lol
<ev> Suspiciously these netbooks are missing serial ports.  Parallel and PS/2 ports as well!
<robbiew> usb
<robbiew> ?
<robbiew> you can get a USB to Serial dongle thingy
<robbiew> ;)
<ev> indeed
<ev> should I get stuck, I'll go to maplin tomorrow
<jhunt> the kernel guys (colin?) might have some of that sort of kit I'd imagine?
<ev> indeed, he brought one to the release sprint
<cjwatson> I don't have a USB-serial device
<ev> other colin
<cjwatson> oh right
<cjwatson> I'll have a real serial cable at the rally if that's of any use to anyone
 * robbiew can go by Fry's Electronics this week and buy one
<robbiew> they're cheap
 * robbiew also has a rented SUV...so can drive over next week as well
<robbiew> anything else?
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:38.
<robbiew> thnx all
<barry> thank robbiew
<robbiew> see you next week!
<mvo> thanks
<ev> thanks!
<jhunt> cu
<SpamapS> robbiew: I'm here now
<robbiew> SpamapS: no worries...we were just discussing bug 672177 in the foundations team meeting
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 672177 in upstart (Ubuntu) "libc6 upgrade causes umount to fail on shutdown because init cannot be restarted" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672177
<Keybuk> sorry, lost track of days
<ogra> and this one is nearly over
<Keybuk> ogra: I somehow thought it was still Tuesday today
<ogra> :)
 * ogra wishes it was ... so much to do before the rally
<cjwatson> I always get confused about days around bank holidays
<Keybuk> I thought I had a really neat gdb bug
<Keybuk> err gcc bug
<Keybuk> but I now think it's a gdb "bah, optimisation, go away" issue
<highvoltage> Hear ye, hear ye! Edubuntu meeting in about 5 minutes.
<highvoltage> Good afternoon
<highvoltage> Some quick updates from my side:
<highvoltage>  * Edubuntu Live Slideshow is now in the default live system, needs some nice slides (see msg to edubuntu-devel about that)
<highvoltage>  * Edubuntu Council renewal is now complete, Richard Johnson and Jordan Ericksson has stepped down, Marc Gariepy has joined the council
<highvoltage>  * Edubuntu artwork package split has been completed, some breakage may occur in next daily build, but this will allow us to have Edubuntu theming in the LTSP shipped with Edubuntu
<highvoltage>  * I sponsored the last Zope packages required for Schooltool this afternoon, it's very likely that Schooltool will be available in the archives for Natty
<highvoltage> Besides that, holidays and business as usual. Anyone else here for Edubuntu?
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> Just in time, the meeting was just about to timeout
<mgariepy> i have nothing to add on my side.
<stgraber> nothing here either
<highvoltage> ok, end of meeting then?
<stgraber> ok :)
<highvoltage> Meeting adjourned
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-01-06
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<janimo> hello all
<rsalveti> hey!
<GrueMaster> Zzzzzz
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110106
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110106
<NCommander> No items standing from last meeting
<NCommander> so
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-2.html
<ogra> hrm
<rsalveti> we're bad
<NCommander> burndown chart looks really bad
<ogra> where are the canonical-arm charts please ?
<ogra> there is still time until a2
<NCommander> ogra: there's identicial to the ubuntu-arel, and this is the ubuntu ARMl meeting
<ogra> and a rally inbetween
<rsalveti> yeah
<rsalveti> and next week we can see what can be moved to alpha-3
<rsalveti> and discuss better
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html
<NCommander> overall wI progress
<NCommander> [link] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<rsalveti> ogra: ^
<NCommander> Assigned bug page has really grown crazy
<NCommander> definiately need to do some work (all of us) on cleaning it out
<rsalveti> my bugs are mostly just waiting uploads
<rsalveti> the kernel team just updated the master branch for maverick, so we should see a new kernel at the proposed
<ogra> some of mine are moot
<rsalveti> and that will fix some of my bugs
<ogra> and need a decision if i drop them
<ogra> but then i only have 5
<marjo> ogra: what decision do you need?
<rsalveti> ogra: there's still the alsa-utils bug, that's not open I guess
<ogra> NCommander, what do you think is crazy about it ? looks pretty good to me
<rsalveti> yeah, looks ok for me too
<ogra> rsalveti, yeah, tegh linux upload closed it
<janimo> it is definitely not exhaustive
<NCommander> ogra: davidm said we need to work towards clearing it out
<rsalveti> I'm more worried about the WI than the bugs
<janimo> but I guess ftbfs bugs are a separate issue
<ogra> marjo, there are some packages we dont have anymore and i need to decide if i want to work on them or not
<marjo> ogra: ack
<ogra> janimo, yeah, we dont treat them separately with bugs
<rsalveti> there are some quite old ones for persia, but he's not around for weeks :-(
<ogra> yeah
<NCommander> also some for dyfet that should be cleared
<janimo> rsalveti, still many are filed as bugs nontheless
<ogra> but all in all we only have 21 bugs on that page
<davidm> If anyone sees persia please let him know I'm trying to reach him
<ogra> doesnt look problematic to me
 * janimo wishes those were linked form the qa ftbfs page
<ogra> davidm, what worries you about that page ?
<rsalveti> davidm: is there anyone else from canonical at japan?
<rsalveti> maybe trying a hard ping, to see if he'sok
<davidm> rsalveti, not that I know of
 * NCommander would stop in Japan in RL if I had any trans-Pacific travel planned :-/
<rsalveti> yeah, we can just send NCommander over there
<ogra> NCommander, quick, just plan one
<rsalveti> hehe, as he loves traveling
<ogra> just fly to dallas through tokio
<GrueMaster> Yes, he does.
<ogra> just a minor extra leg to do
<ogra> davidm, what worries you about http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html ?
<NCommander> ogra: pft, GrueMaster could trivially do it while going to Bellingham, WA :-P
<ogra> many of these are either reminders (in emmets case) or will be solved togerther with other fixes (my flash-kernel ones) or are already in progress (rsalvetis)
<rsalveti> yeah
 * NCommander will work on clearing some on his
<NCommander> anyway, can I move on?
<ogra> you only have two
<davidm> ogra, that is part of it
<ogra> and dont be worried about the WI tracker
<ogra> lets revisit after the rally
<davidm> there is also the armel bugs in general but that is shared with Linaro and community
<ogra> we usually get 30% done during a sprint
<rsalveti> cool
<ogra> davidm, sure
<davidm> Yea, I expect next week with be a good one
 * ogra plans to implement the whole jasper rewrite 
<ogra> which should clean out the majority of my tasks
<ogra> and if i manage i'll finish the PPA builder image too
<ogra> what will you guys focus on ?
<davidm> Cool
<rsalveti> nice, lot of fun work to do :-)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney)
<rsalveti> ok, moving to kernel
<ogra> would be good to coordinate that while we're at the Wi tracker topic
<ogra> hrm, we arent anymore
<ogra> k
<rsalveti> omap 3 kernel is up again
<rsalveti> thanks to apw
<NCommander> hrm no cody-sooloney
<ogra> yep
<rsalveti> I can report from him
<ogra> meta was just uploaded
<rsalveti> NCommander: also, you can put my name on this topic
<rsalveti> as I'm mostly working with kernel bugs all the time
<NCommander> rsalveti: will do
<rsalveti> and for omap 4 there was only one upload
<ogra> omap4 had an upload too
<NCommander> just ell me when to proceed
<rsalveti> fixing bug 694461
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694461 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "kernel config missing CONFIG_TASK_ options for iotop to work" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694461
<rsalveti> we still don't have any image, but we'll need a new x-loader upload
<rsalveti> the package is ready and tested
<rsalveti> will poke ogra during the sprint :-)
<ogra> yeah
<rsalveti> probably on monday
<ogra> i'll try to get omap3 rolling tomorrow
<rsalveti> and no other news from TI
<ogra> though it will fail due to u-boot too
<ogra> waiting for lool still
<rsalveti> :-(
<ogra> if there wasnt a u-boot upload by end of my day tomorrow, i'll do one myself
<rsalveti> also, finally there was one update at maverick's kernel
<rsalveti> should be on proposed soon
<ogra> to be over-synced by the debian upload from lool
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: that will close a lot of bugs
<rsalveti> as the last upload was from mid december
<GrueMaster> ok
<rsalveti> guess that's all from kernel
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> No images since Dec. 14.  Testing limited to dist-update only.
<GrueMaster> Python update caused a bit of a headache as it killed checkbox.  This was recently fixed.
<GrueMaster> Firefox is still broken.
<GrueMaster> Bugs are filed (don't have numbers off hand).
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: are you able to successfully open the X server and the usual efl session?
<rsalveti> you said you had some issues in the past with that
<GrueMaster> I will be making a dup of my ports.ubuntu.com mirror to bring.  I can keep it up to date there.
<GrueMaster> netbook-efl works again (I think).  Not sure if it was a setting that got clobbered.
<ogra> i thought elmo brings one anyway
<GrueMaster> He usually only has x86/amd64.
<rsalveti> oh, ok
<ogra> ah
<rsalveti> maybe we can request that
<GrueMaster> Meh.   I have one locally.
<janimo> GrueMaster, firefox broken in what way? Crashes on startup?
<GrueMaster> Not that hard for me to dup.
<GrueMaster> Firefox crashes on startup, yes.
<rsalveti> janimo: sounds fun for you :-)
<NCommander> GrueMaster: elmo always had ports to my knowledge
<janimo> rsalveti, indeed
<ogra> yeah, i thought that too
<rsalveti> janimo: by the way, you're doing a great job on the ftbfs
<ogra> janimo, well, you have chrisccoulson there ... we can just corner him until he fixes
<ogra> ++
<ogra> absolutely
<NCommander> anyway, I'm going to move on
<GrueMaster> Hm.  Firefox appears to be working again.  Must have fixed in an update yesterday.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra> the ftbfs never looked that good at that time of release
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo> ogra, if it is arm specific I can look into it
 * NCommander didn't mean to change topic but ..
<ogra> only 70 packages
<NCommander> FTBFS list looks outstanding
<rsalveti> yeah, quite ok
<GrueMaster> Oops, nevermind.  Wrong image.
<ogra> and that includes universe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<janimo> quite a lot are haskell ones, which should be fine once (when) ghc6 builds ok
<ogra> janimo, you rock !!!!!!!111111!!!!!!!!!!one
<NCommander> +1 janimo
<NCommander> shall he get much free beer atthe rally
<ogra> ++
<janimo> thank, I didn;t think I did that much actually
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra> davidm, can you request that as expense
<ogra> ?
<rsalveti> haha
<ogra> "get janimo lots of drinks"
<NCommander> ogra: nah 'Developer Fuel'
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> much easier to pass by uppe rmanagement :-)
<ogra> anyway, move i guess
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> bad
<ogra> Riddell, removed uboot-mkimage on dec. 14th
<ogra> that broke all image builds
<ogra> uboot-mkimage is supposed to be replaced by a new u-boot package from debian
<ogra> which didnt get its MIR approved
<ogra> because it builds bootloader binaries as well as the toold
<ogra> *tools
<ogra> so we are waiting for a split package from debian that splits out the tools
<NCommander> ugh
<ogra> lool committed that upstream in debian
<ogra> but it wasnt uploaded there yet
<ogra> if we dont get that new package by tomorrow evening i'll do an upload myself
<ogra> from the git tree
<rsalveti> cool
<NCommander> cool, thanks ogra
<ogra> so we will have overcome that issue
<NCommander> can I move on?
<rsalveti> then we should be fine again, at least getting images
<ogra> but that willo not guarantee tghat the images build
<ogra> since we dont know how out of sync the archive is
<rsalveti> well, we'll move ahead of one bug :-)
<ogra> beyond that ...
<ogra> we will need to spend a lot of time next week on the seeds
<rsalveti> but over the weekend we generally get a stable archive
<ogra> well
<ogra> you never know who uploads crap before steppping on the plane
<rsalveti> heheh, true
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra> i wouldnt count on a stable archive
<rsalveti> sprint
<ogra> WIs
<NCommander> no IRC meeting next week
<ogra> what is who working on next week ?
 * ogra already outlined his plans above
<rsalveti> I'll be working on the gles stuff and try to work on the core boot update
<ogra> how are yours
<ogra> cool
<rsalveti> but that one depends on the arch detect stuff from Nafallo
<rsalveti> ops
<rsalveti> NCommander
 * NCommander has his Texian visa
<janimo> I'll work on packaging qemu-linaro and miniamkl devel images
<janimo> minimal
<rsalveti> janimo: nice
<ogra> yeah
<rsalveti> then we can change rootstock and test over there
<ogra> ++
<GrueMaster> I'll be focused on checkbox.
<NCommander> mostly work items, and archdetect since cjwatson will be accessible
<NCommander> also other stuff
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> closing meeting in 3
<ogra> davidm, how is the status for the build cluster ?
<rsalveti> no
<NCommander> 2
<rsalveti> :-)
<NCommander> 3
<NCommander> bah
<ogra> NCommander, can you wait ?
<NCommander> waiting
<ogra> we still have 30min
<davidm> build cluster is stalled until panda boards ship
<ogra> what HW do we need to bring
<rsalveti> talking about hardware, please make sure we're bringing yours panda
<ogra> and who brings what ?
<davidm> I'm hoping to see them soonish
<rsalveti> I'll also bring one xM
<davidm> Everyone should bring panda's
<davidm> and their cables
<rsalveti> janimo: anything you're missing at your setup?
<davidm> We will get monitors as needed
<GrueMaster> I'll have 2 pandas, beagle, XM, and my flyswatter.
 * NCommander has his AC100, and will help with GrueMaster's pandas
<janimo> rsalveti, no, all is fine
<ogra> do i need to bring both pandas ?
<rsalveti> one should be fine
<ogra> or am i fine with one ?
<ogra> i heard linaro has some need
<rsalveti> the latest and the greatest
<janimo> doing only headeless work now, but monitor works too
<GrueMaster> Also contemplating bringing a core2duo MB to use for builds and other stuff.
<ogra> do we want to help them out ?
<rsalveti> depends on how much time we'll have
<rsalveti> but for sure, we can help
 * ogra will also bring his ac100 and the genesi netbook
<janimo> I like how fast the panda is actually
<lool> NB: mkimage removal was actually requested by bdrung who apologized for the inconvenience, and I'm myself waiting for Clint to comment on u-boot-tools before upload, but it can be taken from Debian git and uploaded to Ubuntu if you block on it
<GrueMaster> I'll also bring my blaze.  I hope to either upgrade it or offload it.
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: yeah, good idea
<ogra> lool, yes, but not checked by the archive admin who removed it
<ogra> lool, and yes, it needs to be in ubuntu this weel
<ogra> *week
<ogra> lool, we need working images ready on monday
<ogra> GrueMaster, offload ?
<ogra> to whom ?
<GrueMaster> preferably would be nice to have images by tomorrow.
<ogra> we wont
<rsalveti> ogra: well, we'll be at dallas
<NCommander> GrueMaster: that's extremely unlikely
<ogra> MIR isnt approved
<GrueMaster> I'll leave it with davidm to return to TI if I can't get it upgraded.
<ogra> i expect to get the MIR approved on monday earliest
<rsalveti> there will be some TI folks too during the sprint
<ogra> most MIR team members are travelling
<ogra> GrueMaster, it can bve upgraded at some point
<ogra> you should really keep the shell
 * NCommander has nothng else on Dallas
<GrueMaster> I asked for an upgrade at the TI sprint.  still waiting.  If it isn't going to be upgraded this cycle, I would rather it go to someone that can use it.
<ogra> nobody can use it
<ogra> without upgraded core board
<ogra> so it wont help anyone
<NCommander> anything else w.r.t. to the rally, or can I close now?
<rsalveti> I'm fine now
<lool> ogra: what's breaking your image right now?
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: Bring coffee beans.
<janimo> there's no schedule, we just show up and work on what we discuss there
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: oh, sure
<ogra> lool, missing mkimage
<NCommander> going once
<ogra> lool, it fails to install jasper due to the missing dep
<ogra> lool, lets take that to -arm, NCommander is in a rush again
<NCommander> :-p
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
<NCommander> three times
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:38.
<lool> I wanted to ask about topics for the workshop
<lool> I didn't get replies to my email yet
<ogra> hmm, to late, we listed the specs above at least
<ogra> lool, i guess we can just sit down on monday
<ogra> and coordinate
<ogra> lets plan a 20min meeting with both teams or some such
<leoquant> @schedule
<ubottu> Sorry, the @schedule function has been disabled. To see the schedule for meetings see http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar. To see the current time in another time zone, use @now
<leoquant> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 06 2011, 18:33:02
<leoquant> thank you ubottu
<beardygnome> hi guys
 * charlie-tca waves
<leoquant> o/
<beardygnome> i'm working away from home this week, so am connected via 30-minute hotel wifi vouchers
<ochosi> hi
<cody-somerville> hi
<charlie-tca> I really hope everyone had a really good holiday and New Years! Now let's get this first meeting of 2011 started.
<beardygnome> so i'll drop out about half way through and have to re-login!
 * pleia2 waves
<charlie-tca> That will work. thanks for letting us know in advance
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] agenda is available in full at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda is available in full at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> We will cover it one item at a time.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
<charlie-tca> I see we are waiting for an update about xubuntu.org?
<charlie-tca> pleia2 or cody-somerville ?
<cody-somerville> I need to reply to an e-mail from pleia2
<charlie-tca> You know we are going to keep bugging you, right?
<pleia2> hehe
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
<cody-somerville> I actually forgot about it so its good you did
 * cody-somerville hates his inbox.
<charlie-tca> heh, no problem
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit here?
<mr_pouit> \o
<mr_pouit> yep, sorry
<charlie-tca> No problem. go ahead, sir
<mr_pouit> uploaded Xfce 4.8~pre3
<charlie-tca> w00t!
<mr_pouit> that's all for this week :P
<ochosi> yeah, a lot seems to work better now
<charlie-tca> That's a big one! any questions about packaging and development?
<ochosi> great work on that mr_pouit
<ochosi> hm, where/when would we discuss default apps and the like?
<micahg> o/
<charlie-tca> Thanks for keeping up with those changes
<micahg> mr_pouit: is it feasible to backport xfce 4.8 to lucid and maverick?
<charlie-tca> micahg: go ahead
<mr_pouit> micahg: if there's a very recent debhelper, yeah
<micahg> I'm wondering if the community would like such a thing
<ochosi> i would assume so
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you think it would be high maintenance?
 * beardygnome would!
<charlie-tca> Does it have to be all or can it be a module, like xfce4-panel?
<mr_pouit> (well, 'very' = more recent than in lucid)
<micahg> mr_pouit: are you using dh8?
<mr_pouit> no no, only 7
<micahg> lucid has 7.4.15
<mr_pouit> yeah, but we use some stuff from 7.4.2 ;-)
<mr_pouit> that's why I stopped updating the ppa ;>
<ochosi> sry to bring this up again, but default apps now or later?
<micahg> ah, you were already trying to do this
<charlie-tca> By all means, bring it up
<mr_pouit> uh, wait, 7.4.15 is greater than 7.4.2
<mr_pouit> (I need to check, let's continue another time)
<micahg> mr_pouit: right, was just about to say that
<micahg> ok
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah, I think it should be discussed on the ml
<ochosi> ok, i was just wondering whether we should maybe talk about a few of the current defaults, e.g. browser
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, i'm fine with that
<mr_pouit> although it's not usually very cosntructive =]
<ochosi> ml is maybe more transparent
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, probably
<charlie-tca> ochosi: Want to get that discussion going then?
<ochosi> basically i thought that alternatives to ff might be discussed
<ochosi> there's midori which is developing nicely and chromium of course
<ochosi> dunno whether any of you are not using firefox
 * beardygnome uses chromium and loves it
<charlie-tca> Midori has issues getting bookmarks transferred from ff, we need an easy way to move them
<charlie-tca> I use firefox, because it is default and needs testing too
<beardygnome> i also have midori installed, but chromium is much better imo
<ochosi> chromium is more grown-up in a way
<ochosi> and more stable
<beardygnome> and looks way better
<ochosi> but i have no clue what version they plan to include in natty
<micahg> ochosi: than what?
<beardygnome> though is less integrated to the desktop
<beardygnome> than midori
<ochosi> micahg: in my experience it's more stable than midori
<micahg> ah, yeah, for sure
<ochosi> beardygnome: not anymore from v.9 onwards
<ochosi> beardygnome: i already integrated theming for chromium >= v.9 in our default theme
<beardygnome> cool
<ochosi> but i agree, v.8 does not look/feel very integrated
 * beardygnome checks what version he's running
<ochosi> but it's still a bit snappier
<ochosi> than firefox
<mr_pouit> (I think chromium is more integrated, as it is able to register itself as default browser in exo)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: good point
<beardygnome> i'm running v9 from the daily ppa, but have pinned it at a version i was happy with
<micahg> mr_pouit: we should discuss why Firefox doesn't do that later
<ochosi> beardygnome: feel free to test the theme and the chromium theming
<beardygnome> will do
<charlie-tca> Let's take it up on the ML, and include any other apps we might want to discuss changing. lightdm to replace GDM is one that comes to mind.
 * beardygnome adds it to his list
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] oshosi will get the discussion started on the ML for default applications in Natty
<MootBot> ACTION received:  oshosi will get the discussion started on the ML for default applications in Natty
<ochosi> charlie-tca: agreed
<beardygnome> didn't we have a chat with the devs of lightdm last year?
<charlie-tca> That way we get a record of why we used what we did, too
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: yes, we did. The results of that is that lightdm is now in universe for Natty
<ochosi> has anyone here tested lightdm yet?
<charlie-tca> I tested in VBox and it worked great on a new install.
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, I can't get it to work on my hardware install
<ochosi> hm, maybe i'll give it a try if i have time
<ochosi> so we skip the rest of the default apps now and continue on the ml?
<charlie-tca> Yes, I think so
<charlie-tca> We should all be able to test them, then
<ochosi> k
<charlie-tca> Anything else for mr_pouit ?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> We hit bugs hard this last month. New bugs are down from 243 to 88
<charlie-tca> Will start reviewing the packages this week
<beardygnome> well done guys, excellent work
<charlie-tca> Testing is a bit behind, since the alternate images were bad during the holidays, and now the desktop images are failing to build
<ochosi> mr_pouit: if i fix bug 686239 for bluebird in hg i assume you'll need a new release to be able to integrate it, right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 686239 in xubuntu-artwork "Bluebird uses removed controls for chrome; please use attached instead." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686239
<ochosi> i mean basically the fix is already present in greybird
<charlie-tca> hm, lost him again?
<ochosi> possibly
<charlie-tca> Any questions on bugs and testing?
<ochosi> i can ask him again later
<charlie-tca> yup, and mr_pouit might answer yet, too
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> I am guessing we don't have any update on this one yet
<ochosi> what is planned for the website?
<charlie-tca> update the logo and stuff to the new ones
<charlie-tca> Possible port to wordpress
<charlie-tca> Want to make it rock!
<ochosi> it would be great if the first page would show the slideshow that is shown during installation
<charlie-tca> We need to get that updated, though.
<ochosi> or at least that would make it a bit more dynamic and descriptive
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> but only after choosing default applications ;)
<charlie-tca> picky, picky ;-)
<ochosi> :D
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
<MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
<charlie-tca> ochosi: got any updates ?
<ochosi> yep, i started working on the default panel layout
<ochosi> http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:xfce-panel
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:xfce-panel
<ochosi> you can see where we're heading for here
<ochosi> i'm also testing droid as new default font
<ochosi> i would say that we definitely should switch away from "sans"
<ochosi> and droid is a well supported, not too large (hdd-space-wise), font
<beardygnome> think i dropped out there but should be back now
<charlie-tca> Great idea! This is a good release for change...
<ochosi> elementary will stay the default icon theme for natty
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: yes, you are
<ochosi> it's just a lot more consistent than faenza
<ochosi> and the possibility to get my changes upstream makes it great
<ochosi> so upstream will also try to be xfce-complete in the future
<ochosi> which takes a lot of work off our shoulders :)
<ochosi> the theme has also been improved here and there
<ochosi> i mean the gtk theme
<ochosi> it would be great if we could switch to greybird as default theme in the next release
<ochosi> to get better testing
<charlie-tca> whew! you been busy too. Thanks for working so much on this
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ^ ?
<ochosi> no problem
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Can we get greybird as the default theme in Natty Alpha 2?
<ochosi> the thing i'd like to work more on is the xfwm-theme
<ochosi> but other than that i think we're really far ahead of previous releases where artwork was a last-minute issue
<charlie-tca> [IDEA] try to get greybird as default theme in Alpha2
<MootBot> IDEA received:  try to get greybird as default theme in Alpha2
<ochosi> any feedback from you people?
<charlie-tca> I agree with that statement, ochosi. I see us as actually making good progress early enough to correct things.
<beardygnome> i've not seen much of greybird, so would be interested in trying it out
<ochosi> by the way: you can see droid in the screenshot of iteration3 of the above posted panel-layout wikipage
<charlie-tca> It is a really nice theme, beardygnome
<ochosi> the shots of iteration1 and 2 show the old "sans" font
<beardygnome> is it available for maverick?
<ochosi> beardygnome: sure
<ochosi> beardygnome: download it here: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors
<ochosi> i'm also testing it on maverick
<ochosi> so it'll definitely work there too
<beardygnome> ochosi: i'll try that out
<ochosi> mr_pouit: maybe we should also test the new panel layout in alpha2
<beardygnome> where do you want any feedback?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: and droid :)
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: more info on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty
<ochosi> beardygnome: basically everywhere, i've not gotten much yet :)
<beardygnome> ok, will check it out
<ochosi> beardygnome: btw, you can always ping me on #xubuntu-devel or #shimmer
<ochosi> charlie-tca: have you heard of thorwil?
<charlie-tca> yes, he is the one helped me get the background artwork specs together
<ochosi> he wrote me an email last year and i replied but didn't here anything back then
<beardygnome> ochosi: we're keeping elementary for natty, so no need to test faenza, right?
<ochosi> s/here/hear
<charlie-tca> I will push him again, then
<ochosi> beardygnome: exactly
<charlie-tca> He is part of the community artwork team
<ochosi> well, it would be good to get some news on the wallpapers
<ochosi> i think he's leading that initiative, no?
<charlie-tca> We have 11 wallpapers submitted now
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty
<charlie-tca> yes, thorwil and saleel
<charlie-tca> Sorry, 11 wallpapers at [LINK] http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
<ochosi> hm, i'm just skipping through the wallpapers
<ochosi> nothing really final there yet
<charlie-tca> [LINK] http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
<charlie-tca> No, but at least therer are some nice backgrounds there
<ochosi> but some of them really have potential
<ochosi> i hope the people keep working on them
<ochosi> the color palette is a bit boring in most proposals
<ochosi> very blue/grey
<charlie-tca> I think we have to give them some guidance on where to go next with them
<charlie-tca> thorwil tried to tell them to not go monochrome blue this time, but ...
<ochosi> mhm, i read a few mails on the artwork-ml and it seems they discussed other palettes
<ochosi> i even once posted there with a link to my current wp to show them that other palletes/colors work with the theme
<ochosi> one more thing i'd like to discuss with you
<ochosi> what applications shall we have in the bottom (launcher) panel by default?
<charlie-tca> Okay, ouch
<ochosi> you can see a few in the screenshot of iteration3
<charlie-tca> group effort?
<ochosi> but i'm not entirely sure whether my usage reflects the average user
<ochosi> yeah, group effort would be nice
<charlie-tca> [IDEA] default launchers to be used in Xubuntu Panel
<MootBot> IDEA received:  default launchers to be used in Xubuntu Panel
<charlie-tca> anyone got any ideas?
<beardygnome> browser, email, terminal?
<ochosi> beardygnome: look what might be missing here: http://wiki.knome.fi/_detail/shimmer:panel_it3.png?id=shimmer%3Axfce-panel
<ochosi> or even what is redundant
<charlie-tca> settings manager, thunar, abiword, too
<micahg> office app
<ochosi> k, abiword is missing, good point
<beardygnome> parole?
<ochosi> hm, do you really open media files via parole and not via thunar?
<beardygnome> good point
<beardygnome> exaile?
<ochosi> maybe exaile?
<ochosi> hehe
<charlie-tca> sure
<ochosi> ok, good
<ochosi> i guess we don't need update-manager?
<beardygnome> gimp? mousepad?
<charlie-tca> Let's get it together, then. We can try to get mr_pouit to stick it in alpha2, and we can juggle launchers for alpha3 if needed
<ochosi> yeah, good idea charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Maybe mousepad, but I question whether gimp is used that much?
<beardygnome> ochosi: i think update-manager is covered by having software-centre#
<ochosi> beardygnome: hm, maybe yeah. since exaile is there maybe gimp also makes sense
<charlie-tca> update-manager and software center are two different things.
 * micahg thought they were going to be integrated
<beardygnome> i'm just thinking that everyone will customise it, so why not use to to advertise our key apps
<charlie-tca> One adds software and one updates your already there software
<ochosi> depends on whether update-notifications in the systray will be "on" by default
<charlie-tca> micahg: I think synaptic and software center are the same
<ochosi> micahg: hm, maybe it's planned but definitely not implemented yet
<beardygnome> true, i'm thinking of synaptic, which i use instead of software-centre
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: I like that thinking
<ochosi> micahg: at least not in the gui
<ochosi> well, let's wait a bit with update-manager and not put it there for now
<ochosi> there are notifications for updates most likely anyway
<beardygnome> anyway, i think we should use the launcher to promote our key software selections
<beardygnome> will it autohide?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> btw, that searchglass there is not catfish but appfinder
<beardygnome> very nice
<ochosi> (one thing we definitely have to fix in the icon-theme
<ochosi> )
<beardygnome> yes
<charlie-tca>  I been using appfinder. It seems kind of nice, really
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> but do we want something like catfish down there as well=
<beardygnome> if the launcher auto hides, will it be obvious to new users?
<beardygnome> ochosi: yes to having catfish
<ochosi> beardygnome: yes, because it's full-sized
<charlie-tca> I think we want appfinder there, it introduces a whole new look at applications
<ochosi> beardygnome: it has an expanding separator on the left and on the right side
<ochosi> beardygnome: but of course we have to test it
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, good point
<beardygnome> ochosi: catfish?  isn't that fairly stable?
<charlie-tca> It should be stable, we have it for many releases already
<beardygnome> ochosi: if the launcher autohides, it won;t be shown the screen when the new user logs in
<beardygnome> i use catfish all the time and i've not had any issues
<beardygnome> this topic is getting sidetracked now shall we move it to the ml?
<ochosi> yeah, it's not an "either catfish or appfinder" but a "maybe we want both" :)
<beardygnome> i think both
<charlie-tca> yes
<beardygnome> but with different icons :-)
<ochosi> ok
<beardygnome> i'm running low in internet credit and want to get into the docs discussion
<ochosi> i'm on it
<ochosi> sure
<charlie-tca> Okay, take it to the mailing list too
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] take the discussion about default launchers to the ML
<MootBot> ACTION received:  take the discussion about default launchers to the ML
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Documentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation
<beardygnome> i have reviewed a lot of branch 240 of the docs and have about 30 comments / suggestions
<charlie-tca> Book_Em_Dano is not here, but he is working hard to get the documentation up to date for Natty, Maverick, and Lucid
<beardygnome> where's the best place to send them?
<ochosi> beardygnome: so the docs might be up-to-date for natty?
<ochosi> cool!
<charlie-tca> xubuntu-devel ML, I think, so we don't lose them
<beardygnome> as a single mail, or as an attachment?
<charlie-tca> Throw them into one message, and we can forward it to daniel
<beardygnome> ok will do.
<charlie-tca> Thanks for doing that, beardygnome
<beardygnome> i'm about to go offline, but will hang around until i do
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: np
<charlie-tca> anything else on docs?
<charlie-tca> We do still need as many people to review as possible!
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.2
<charlie-tca> micahg: any updates?
<micahg> charlie-tca: yes, the freeze for 10.04.2 is 1/20
<charlie-tca> yipes
<micahg> so, we have 2 weeks to get any fixes uploaded
<charlie-tca> I guess I better get looking at the lucid bugs this week then
<charlie-tca> That seems early with the release scheduled for Feb 17
<micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseInterlock
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg.
<charlie-tca> Keep poking me for the bugs, huh?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
<micahg> charlie-tca: sure
<charlie-tca> Community Council received a single nomination for Project Lead.
<charlie-tca> pleia2, keep me straight now...
<pleia2> launchpad polls are back, so if you want we can set up a simple confirmation poll
<charlie-tca> Can we hold a vote next meeting to confirm this lead?
<highvoltage> yay
<pleia2> or at a meeting :)
<charlie-tca> Which ever one is best for it?
<pleia2> however you see fit, xubuntu is a small enough project that it doesn't have to be super formal
<pleia2> just as long as there aren't complaints about the process
<pleia2> if you want to do it at a meeting I'd send an email to the list prior to asking for votes if you can't make it to the meeting (I'd be happy to be the contact person for these confirmation votes)
<charlie-tca> Let's do that, to keep it solid.
<pleia2> great
<charlie-tca> thank you
<charlie-tca> and, since we are running a bit over,
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business?
<charlie-tca> There being no other business, we will meet again on January 13 at 19:00 UTC.
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for attending.
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:09.
<charlie-tca> I think meetings past about an hour get too long to keep people
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-01-07
 * skaet waves
 * joshuahoover waves
 * rsalveti waves
<skaet> hi all,  just about time to get started.
 * rsalveti will cover ogra again today
<skaet> thanks rsalveti.  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.    If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> [Topic] Natty overview - skaet
<skaet> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-01-07
<skaet> Alpha 2 tasks, as indicated by the burn down charts are starting indicate progress again after holiday break, but overall above trend line.  see: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/all-natty-alpha-2.html
<skaet> Milestoned bugs for alpha2 can be found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33572.   We've got a couple critical it would be nice to get closed soon.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview - skaet
<skaet> ..
<pitti> o/
<ScottK> \o
<zul> hi
<Daviey> o/
<skaet> hi pitti, ScottK, Daviey questions? or just saying hi  :)
<pitti> skaet: just waving hello
<pitti> forgot that it's now an official symbol :)
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> skaet: waving hello.
 * ScottK didn't know it was.
<Daviey> skaet, Just saying hi - sorry :)
<skaet> ScottK, Daviey, no worries - glad you said hi.  :)
<skaet> I'll move on to the other stuff..
<skaet> [Topic] update on action items - skaet
<skaet> Linaro Natty Freeze milestones have been indicated on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseInterlock
<skaet> There is a tutorial on linker order under development and available for review/comment.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ToolchainTransition
<MootBot> New Topic:  update on action items - skaet
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any questions?  or further updates to the action items?
<ScottK> skaet: What progress on the DSO linking documentation?
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> I should read all the way down
<skaet> ScottK,  :)
<skaet> Allison and Matthias welcome comments to the wiki.    Still incorporating some feedback, but hope to broadcast it to the devel list soon.
<skaet> ok, not seeing other questions, so on to the round tables..
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - marjo
<marjo> hi folks; happy new year!
<marjo>  * Natty 11.04 Release goals
<marjo>  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa-natty-alpha-2.html
<marjo>  Good progress but blocked on 1 work item.
<marjo>   * Bugsquad Roadmap: 'Add support information to bug reporting guidelines' blocked due to http://launchpad.net/bugs/692787 bdmurray following up with Launchpad team.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 692787 in Launchpad itself "unable to update Ubuntu bug reporting guidelines" [High,Triaged]
<pitti> marjo: s/~pitti/~platform/ please
<marjo> pitti: sorry about that
<pitti> marjo: don't be, just to cleanup for the future :)
<marjo> pitti: you're too kind; thx
<marjo>  * ISO Smoke Test project - Good progress. Should be available for daily use before Alpha-2.
<pitti> o/
<marjo> # weekly testing status:
<marjo> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<marjo>  * Desktop Automated Testing result
<marjo>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<marjo> jibel is investigating why some tests did not run today
<marjo>  * Server Automated Testing result
<marjo>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<marjo> ..
<skaet> thanks marjo.   pitti?
<pitti> marjo: "iso smoke test" sounds interesting; does that do a fully automated install?
<jibel> o/
<pitti> like, with faking the ubiquity clicks?
<jibel> pitti, yes it does.
<pitti> awesome
<jibel> it downloads the latest iso
<jibel> boots it, and run ubiquity by simulating clicks
<pitti> jibel: you replaced ara with a python script!
<jibel> when the test is finished it uploads the results to a couchdb which are then published to a hudson serter
<jibel> s/serter/server
<pitti> (just kidding)
<cjwatson> so how do I find out why a given test in http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/ failed?
<jibel> pitti, not all ara
<pitti> jibel: just kidding; nice work
<cjwatson> like http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/job/natty-server-amd64_print-server/lastFailedBuild/ say
<jibel> hggdh, ^^
<marjo> cjwatson: hggdh runs those tests, so he would do the root cause analysis
<cjwatson> so it's dependent on an operator to analyse them?
<cjwatson> I was hoping I could just download the d-i syslog from a failed run
<hggdh> cjwatson: yes, it depends on review for the cause of failure
<marjo> cjwatson: in some sense, yes
<cjwatson> obviously it has to be reviewed but I was hoping that a competent developer might be able to do that review too
<hggdh> cjwatson: we do not currently save the d-i log (i.e., /var/log/installer). This can be done, though
<cjwatson> what I'm asking is what information you're using when you do that review
<marjo> cjwatson: sometimes, one can look at the console output and do some quick analysis
<cjwatson> if you don't have the d-i syslog I'm having trouble seeing how you would get any useful results at all
<hggdh> cjwatson: to zero in the last failure, lick on the run # to the right of the "Last failure". Then you can look at the Console output and the build artifacts links
<marjo> cjwatson: thx for the suggestion; will investigate for inclusion
<cjwatson> I can't find any actual useful information in the build artifacts; that's why I asked :-)
 * skaet looks around to see if there are other questions?
<marjo> hggdh: then one of the build artifacts can be the d-i log?
<marjo> skaet: we'll continue discussion w/ cjwatson & hggdh off-line
<skaet> thanks marjo, hggdh, jibel.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<victorp> weekly testing this week run for clients
<victorp> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<victorp> Servers - we have both lab and image issues discuss previously
<victorp> we are planning to start looking at the untested systems to bring up coverage
<victorp> and also to keep up weekly testing ongoing from now on
<victorp> we had 2 new starters in the team this week, so I am confident that it will help
<skaet> :)
<victorp> we are trying to organise cover for next week as everyone in the lab is travelling to dallas
<victorp> we need someone to press the reboot button ;)
<victorp> back in montreal  - but we should be able to manage
<victorp> that is all from me
<skaet> thanks victorp.
<skaet> will we start to see boot performance tests again after the rally?
<victorp> that is the plan yes :)
<skaet> excellent.  :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<victorp> note that the data is collected on the same test - we need to understand how we report the results
<skaet> not doing it the same way ameet did before/
<skaet> ?
<cjwatson> just bootchart png and tar, I'd have expected?
<cjwatson> or svg and tar, whatever it is
 * victorp hwcert team running a head of time -> http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/desktop/public_html/daily-bootcharts/
<victorp> ^^ first set of results for bootchart on 2011 available
<cjwatson> those are reporting the desktop starting up in negative time
<skaet> victorp,  not seeing any 2011 dates on the last tested column?
<cjwatson> I know the desktop team are good but they aren't that good :)
<victorp> do a refresh? first one on the list
<skaet> victorp,  yup, seeing it now.   thanks!
 * skaet does happy dance - new data to study...
<victorp> cjwatson - I believe that is the difference from previous dance
<victorp> s/dance/run/
<victorp> skaets fault!
<victorp> :)
<skaet> lol
<skaet> any other question?
<pitti> do we have any SSD systems there?
<cjwatson> victorp: are you sure?  that looks odd based on previous data, and in any case we need absolute numbers too
<pitti> ah, mini 10 v
<victorp> oh yes, I see what you mean when you drill down on the data
<cjwatson> plus, the kernel time given there is very close to the time it takes the kernel to start up in the bootchart
<seb128> do you wait on gnome-panel loading?
<pitti> but the last mini 10 report is from last June
<seb128> because there is no gnome-panel in unity
<victorp> ok - we are not there yet, we are getting started warming up the test machine
<seb128> which probably screw the measure for the desktop bit
<victorp> :)
<skaet> thanks victorp.   nice to see the preview.   not seeing any questions so will move on.
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Not a lot to report again as we have again been focusing mainly on non-natty duties this week. We/pitti did fix bug #690040 and a related one with ifupdown. We have no pending features for alpha-2.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690040 in cups (Ubuntu Natty) "no longer confined by AppArmor" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690040
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand!
<jdstrand> sure :)
<skaet> any one have questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - apw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - apw
<apw> o/
<apw> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-2.html
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> We are progressing on our natty-alpha-2 items, some of the natty-alpha-1 items remain but we are closing them.  The remaining pushed out items are listed with background on the overall status above (first link).  Overall burndown we are still below the line, so we should be able to catch up.
<apw> Of the bugs called out on the agenda: #630748 waits on an Intel microcode update; #542660 waits on feedback from the reporter; #600453 there is upstream progress which is enouraging; #636091 seems to only affect live environments; #681877 is likely related to #600453; #682617 waits on feedback from the reporter, but does not appear to be kernel.
<apw> The main distro kernel is now rebased forward to mainline v2.6.37 final and published in advance of the Rally.  This kernel brings back the ARM OMAP3 kernels needed for the ARM images.  Final confirmation of the Kernel version should be made at Rally next week.  There will be an update hiatus during the v2.6.38 merge window, we will likely not upload kernels until -rc2 dependant on stability there.
<apw> ..
<cjwatson> o/
<skaet> go cjwatson
<cjwatson> I'd like to meet kernel folks next week to sync up on the state of play on graphics/gfxpayload=linux/etc.
<cjwatson> would that be possible?
<apw> cjwatson, yes please that would be advisable
<cjwatson> there's an entry on the foundations agenda for the rally, so whenever you like really
<pitti> o/
<cjwatson> ok
<apw> cjwatson, please add it to the kernel agenda so we don't forget
<cjwatson> ok
<apw> cjwatson, ack
<skaet> go pitti
<pitti> apw: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-desktop-n-xorg-configuration-the-final-ten-percent (move i915 configs to sysfs) still on the table or should we drop it?
<pitti> and writable EDID
<apw> pitti, that one i have on my list, but have not gotten to it yet, perhaps next week is a good time.  i hear part may already be done
<pitti> apw: nice, thanks
<pitti> apw: was mainly interested for the sake of planning, as it's a prerequisite for futher development
 * skaet looks around...  anyone else?
<apw> pitti, ack, we should meet to discuss next week also
<skaet> nice detailed summary apw - thanks!
<apw> np
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<cjwatson> Behind the trend line after the holiday, but not too desperately, and there are a number of obvious things we can defer (e.g. client part of donations through software-center, which still has no design and no server), so I'm not worried yet.
<cjwatson> Interesting feature progress since last week:
<cjwatson>  * Working on moving installer testing to LDTP, which should be more robust and flexible than Sikuli due to ATK named objects
<cjwatson>  * Upstart override feature code-complete, tests in progress
<cjwatson>  * software-center ratings-and-reviews "almost ready (but not quite :/)", testing against a real server instance
<cjwatson>  * Initial LibreOffice packages, as you may have noticed from the news - though this should really be desktop, right? ;-)
<cjwatson>  * GRUB btrfs and squashfs support merged from experimental upstream branches - as of tomorrow it *should* be possible to do a full install on btrfs out of the box, with partman/default_filesystem=btrfs
<cjwatson>  * Archive test rebuild in progress (doko)
<cjwatson> I merged upstream console-setup the other day, which is causing a bit of disruption (I sort of expected this which is why I'd put it off for so long).  Sorry about that.
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson.  :)   any progress on the bugs?
<doko> fyi, build results will show up here: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110107-natty.html
<pitti> cjwatson: FTR, new LibO maintainer will start Feb 1st
<cjwatson> very little I'm afraid, we're going to beat the list down at the rally
<cjwatson> pitti: thanks, yeah, Robbie said there'd been progress there
<skaet> cjwatson,  fair 'nuf.  :)
<skaet> any other questions?
 * cjwatson agendas that just to make sure
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - zul/daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - zul/daviey
<zul> hi
<zul> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<skaet> hi
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<zul> Happy new year! People are ramping up again. We are falling behind in our burn down charts, but they need to be updated to reflect the relaity. I expect alot of that work will be done next week. We have several bugs on our radar:
<zul>  * bug 697753 - bittorrent recommendation prevents bittorrent demotion
<zul>     * Upstream will be looking at this and we will be doing a point release next week.
<zul>  * bug 697181 - DoS: Infinite loop processing 2.2250738585072011e-308
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 697753 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "bittorrent recommendation prevents bittorrent demotion" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697753
<zul>  * bug 689944 - Fix some ocf script issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 697181 in php5 (Ubuntu Natty) "DoS: Infinite loop processing 2.2250738585072011e-308" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697181
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 689944 in cluster-agents (Ubuntu Natty) "Fix some ocf script issues" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/689944
<zul> the trend line is a bit depressing but i expect that to clear up next week at the rally.
<zul> ...
<skaet> Thanks zul!   Will add those bugs to the ones i'm tracking.
<zul> np
<skaet> looking forward to the trend line improving after the rally.  :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
<pitti> Blueprint implementation:
<pitti> - On track for entire cycle (http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html)
<pitti> - Falling behind on alpha-2, seems we need to drop some targets of opportunities; we'll review that on the sprint (http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-2.html)
<pitti> General status:
<pitti> - Latest GTK 3 introduced a new way of doing themes, which now causes our GTK3 apps (Jockey, language-selector, Apport, more to come) to look ugly, as the current murrine theme can't be ported to the new GTK way. We have two options to sort this out, will discuss next week at the sprint.
<pitti> - No major change to report, due to holidays
<pitti> CD space savings:
<pitti> - CDs had been within size limit for some days now, but oversized again starting from today; we took off Rhythmbox now (since Banshee got added), which will save 1.5 MB, and need a langpack refresh for alpha-2 which will save several MB as well, so we are on target for alpha-2.
<pitti> - python2.6 package on CDs got fixed, i. e. it's not installed any more.
<pitti> - /usr/lib/python2.{6,7} each need ~ 9.5 MB of CD space, i. e. due to the transition we added 9.5 MB. It would be nice if we could drop support for 2.6 during Natty to reclaim them.
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti> - summary: going well, no worries here (two open issues which are in progress)
<pitti> - details on [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> ..
<skaet> thanks pitti,  good to hear that we'll be fitting back on the CD for alpha-2. :)
<skaet> any one questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> details on where we're at with blueprints and releases are in the link above
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> good news? udf selection is in the latest ubuntuone-client package...needs a new release to work properly from the gui
<joshuahoover> bad news? desktopcouch is not in like we thought it would be before the holidays...we have a couple people working on that now to work out the (various) issues
<joshuahoover> we'll have some folks at the platform sprint...errr...rally next week & will be looking to make good progress on some unity integration while we're there
<joshuahoover> and that's about it
<joshuahoover> ..
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover!
<pitti> joshuahoover: we took off evo-couchdb as Naty said U1 control panel would install it on demand now/soon (she's got a branch)
<pitti> joshuahoover: if that's still unclear, let's discuss next week
<joshuahoover> pitti: ah yes, there was discussion about this earlier today actually on #ubuntuone
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<Riddell> yo
<Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.5.95 uploading to natty, building now
<Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.5.5 update for maverick being packaged by ninjas, due for release shortly
<Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.4.5 in lucid-updates, one regression in the packaging, now fixed, bug 696675
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 696675 in kde-l10n-engb (Ubuntu Lucid) "kde l10n packages depend on libkdecore5 which doesn't exist" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696675
<Riddell>  * Todo list getting some green but probably behind where I'd like it to be https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
<Riddell>  * 10 kubuntu-tagged bugs targeted for alpha 2 http://goo.gl/yGhJd
<skaet> ..?
<Riddell> that's me
<skaet> Thanks Riddell!   Will dig in and look at those alpha 2 bugs later.  :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<doko> Riddell: there seems to be an unneeded promton
<doko> cmake b-d
<Riddell> doko: I don't understand, what's unneeded?
<doko> Riddell: packages in xmlrpc-c were explicitly splitted for the reason of *not* promoting the whole of xmlrpc-c
<doko> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmlrpc-c/+bug/369918
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 369918 in xmlrpc-c (Ubuntu) "main inclusion report for xmlrpc-c" [Undecided,Fix released]
<dbarth_> oops
<dbarth_> hi all
<skaet> hi
<Riddell> doko: let me look into it to remind myself, I'll get back to you
<dbarth_> the report is up at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> not much new this week
<doko> Riddell: ok, the new one is bug #698311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 698311 in cmake (Ubuntu Natty) "cmake needs to build-depend on libxmlrpc-core-c3-dev, not libxmlrpc-c3-dev " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/698311
<dbarth_> we haven't uploaded a release to natty and mostly sorted bugs and landed a couple of infrastructure changes on trunk
<dbarth_> re-stabilizing everything after the break
<dbarth_> the daily builds should be up and running now to get us ready for next week
<dbarth_> of note:
<dbarth_> the workflow to get GL bugs passed over to the x team is now in place
<dbarth_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bugs?field.tag=natty is their inbound queue
<dbarth_> it should ensure a smoother resolution of issues as the tide of unity bugs rises during the cycle
<skaet> :)
<dbarth_> compiz also is in need for help
<marjo> dbarth: fyi, compiz & unity no longer in top 5; http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<dbarth_> we'll be doing some agressive triaging next week, mostly putting aside everything that is not 0.9/unity related
<dbarth_> and bringing some resources over to help smspillaz
<dbarth_> and last (not on the report, though a lot happened this week as well): a11y is back on track
<skaet> ..?
<dbarth_> we've been working with apineiro since late december to get the internal plumbing in tplace
<dbarth_> (typing slow today)
 * skaet sorry
<dbarth_> means that the a11y enablement for launcher & panel should be possible
<dbarth_> we're also receiving a lot of help from the desktop team here
<dbarth_> foundations part: ted is fighting with the gdbus port and appmenu got some more love this week as well
<dbarth_> overall we're all waiting for the rally to get all back to full speed in sight of the alpha-2 milestone
<dbarth_> bug status
<dbarth_> i've updated some of the old bugs with didrocks that were still on the natty radar
<dbarth_> and assigned the ones (like the bitesize one) that were still not miletsoned / allocated
<dbarth_> that's it mostly
<dbarth_> questions? more bugs?
<skaet> lol
<skaet> there will always be more bugs...
<skaet> thanks dbarth_!
<dbarth_> well, yes
<dbarth_> thx
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - rsalveti
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - rsalveti
<rsalveti> Full Status at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> - Latest working OMAP4 image is still from 20101214, latest were broken because of the uboot-mkimage removal
<rsalveti> - New u-boot package was finally pushed to main, and we'll start getting images again soon! (thanks to lool, doko and ogra)
<rsalveti> - Kernel is still 2.6.35 for OMAP 4, TI planning to push a 2.6.38 tree later on
<rsalveti> - Kernel for OMAP 3 is back, and we'll soon be able to generate omap 3 images again (thanks to apw)
<rsalveti> - Team is back to work, so we should see more work on WI soon
<rsalveti> - Most kernel SRU sorted out, just waiting move from proposed to updates
<rsalveti> - Firefox is working again with latest package update
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> Image Status
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> - Latest working one is from 20101214
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> Work Items
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html
<rsalveti> - Next Milestone http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-arm-natty-alpha-2.html - some moved already to alpha 3, and the others to be implemented/discussed during the sprint
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> Bugs with fix released
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> - Bug 690445 Firefox crashes on armel
<rsalveti> - Bug 673509 Beagleboard-xm chooses a new IP address on each boot
<rsalveti> - Bug 653002 omapdss DISPC error: GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW, disabling GFX
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> the whole team is looking forward to work heavily on the WI during the sprint
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690445 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox crashes on armel" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690445
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 673509 in linux (Ubuntu) "Beagleboard-xm chooses a new IP address on each boot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673509
<rsalveti> persia is back on-line, and feeling better!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653002 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Natty) "omapdss DISPC error: GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW, disabling GFX" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653002
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> glad to hear persia's back online.   :)
<rsalveti> yeah :-)
<rsalveti> that's all from my side
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> thanks for the update rsalveti!    any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> Not a lot to updates to provide.  People are working on SDO linking, GCC 4.5, and Python2.7 fixes.
<ScottK> We won't get to where we really want to be I don't think but progress is being made.  Hopefully Squeeze releases soon and Debian picks up the same toolchain.
<ScottK> That's all.
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!   figure we'll be seeing linking/gcc/python fixes for a while yet.
<skaet> any questions?
<ScottK> skaet: Up until the next LTS release is my prediction.
<skaet> ack.
 * skaet resets her expectations....
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> Hi Kate.
<skaet> hi.  :)
<JamieBennett> There are not many Ubuntu interlocks from the Linaro sidem we are easier to accommodate this cycle ;)
<JamieBennett> Most notable is GCC though.
<JamieBennett> We expect a new GCC 4.5 version 2010-02-08 with some basic Android support, heap randomisation and volatile int fixes.
<JamieBennett> There will be GDB and improvements but these should be pretty unobtrusive.
<JamieBennett> Kernel wise we will probably need another upload early next month (around the same time as the GCC release) but as only Linaro uses this it isnât a big deal.
<JamieBennett> We have initial investigations with Android and MeeGo, I expect some packages to come through REVU into the archive in the coming month or so along with one or two other packages to do with performance, no clear information on that one yet.
<JamieBennett> Ubuntu deadline wise we should be fine to get all this in on time
<JamieBennett> EOF
<skaet> Thanks JamieBennett!
<ScottK> JamieBennett: Could there be an action to test build qt4-x11 with the volatile int fixed before it lands?
<ScottK> fixed/fixes
<JamieBennett> I'm sure its on Michaels radar but give me the action and I'll chase it up
<ScottK> skaet: ^^^ Please.
<skaet> ack - will do.
 * skaet will put it in the minutes.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
<skaet> going once?
<skaet> hmm,  looks like end of meeting time
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
<marjo> skaet: thx for another effective meeting
<skaet> Thanks ScottK, marjo, jibel,  hggdh, victorp, jdstrand, apw, cjwatson, pitti,  zul, daviey, joshuahoover,  dbarth_, rsalveti, JamieBennett
<pitti> thanks all
<joshuahoover> thank you skaet
<pitti> see you all next week!
<dbarth_> yep!
<skaet> indeed.   looking forward to seeing folks in Dallas!
<skaet> and watching the burn down charts improving first hand,  lol.
<rsalveti> skaet: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-01-08
<jussi> right, who is here?
<jussi> topyli: tsimpson nhandler Pici?
<topyli> heyhey!
 * tsimpson is here
<jussi> ok, we have quorum...
<jussi> tsimpson: bout your turn for chair, right?
<tsimpson> probably
<tsimpson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:05. The chair is tsimpson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<tsimpson> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<tsimpson> [topic] Offtopic Guidelines
<MootBot> New Topic:  Offtopic Guidelines
<tsimpson> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenjaminRubin/OfftopicGuidelines
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenjaminRubin/OfftopicGuidelines
<tsimpson> not sure if Pici is about
<tsimpson> but it's been on the agenda a while now
<jussi> that link basically says:
<jussi> To be placed under the 'Language and Subject' heading in our guidelines
<jussi> Our offtopic channels are designed to be places where people can be in company of others while talking about subjects that they enjoy. We realize that many of us enjoy figuring out computer problems, but we respectfully ask that if a conversation is turning into something that you would more likely see in our support channels, that you bring it there instead. That said, if someone asks you to move your support conversation into one of our
<jussi> support channels, please do so.
<jussi> Im +1 on this, no problems
<topyli> i think the last sentence is the relevant one
<topyli> the rest is dressing :)
<jussi> Im happy to have a vote that we add this, if you like?
<tsimpson> it's something that we have done before, this is just putting it into writing
<topyli> yeah. let us vote
<tsimpson> [vote] Add the above to IRC/Guidelines under Language and Subject
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Add the above to IRC/Guidelines under Language and Subject.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi> excellent
<tsimpson> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<tsimpson> so who wants to do that?
<jussi> give it o Pici
<tsimpson> [action] Pici to edit the guidelines wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pici to edit the guidelines wiki
<topyli> i would change the wording, but i can talk to Pici about it
<tsimpson> [topic] Dealing with Ubuntu IRC Problem Users
<MootBot> New Topic:  Dealing with Ubuntu IRC Problem Users
<topyli> nhandler wanted to submit his document for review by the team. i'm happy with the content of it, but it's a bit meditative and needs to be formatted
<ikonia> can you provide context of this document ?
<ikonia> or background to the item ?
<topyli> well
<topyli> it aims to reduce trigger happiness
<ikonia> great, more documentation and process
<topyli> it tries to reinforce the guidelines we already have. first you +q and talk to the user, and so on. you don't declare people trolls right away and ban them
<topyli> that sort of thing
<ikonia> no
<ikonia> there shouldn't be a first you do this, then you do that, it should be" you use common sense for the sitaution "
<topyli> it's often not happening, so i do support documentation
<ikonia> then speak to the people it's not happening with
<ikonia> rather than put another document / process in place
<jussi> I disagree, having guidelines are a good thing.
<topyli> in fact it's already in the operator guidelines, as well as the leadership guidelines. assume best of the user, give them benefit of the doubt
<ikonia> the guidelines are there, there doesn't need to be another document to backup the guidelines
<tsimpson> if we do have a set of guidelines then we don't have to rely on an interpretation of what should be done
<ikonia> you arleady have guidelines though, why is there a need for another document
<tsimpson> we aren't planning to have something that says "you must do this...", but something that guides our general enforcement of the channel rules
<ikonia> you arleady have guidelines though, why is there a need for another document
<jussi> I think nhandler's intention is this will get merged nto the guidelines, but of that I am not certain.
<topyli> if we followed the loose guidelines we already have, we shouldn't have a need for more precise documentation. but we seem to be failing
<tsimpson> the other guidelines aren't really a policy, more a set of technical solutions
<tsimpson> this one is intended to be more of a behaviour guide
<ikonia> topyli: if people are not following the guide;omes. lets speak to them, instead of doing another doucment
<topyli> yes we should do that as well
<ikonia> you should do that, full stop
<ikonia> one of the complaints/feedback to the council in the recent troubled times was due to not listening to the community, or communicting
<ikonia> one of the things was too much process, not enough common sense
<ikonia> and lack of communictaion
<ikonia> communicate with people if you feel they are not in line with the guidelines
<ikonia> stop making processes of processeses, of documents
<ikonia> the team is small, most would welcome communication rather than another guidelines/policy being pushed at them
<topyli> maybe you should look at the document though, once we decide to submit it for evaluation. then decide whether or not you like it
<tsimpson> the current section on op behaviour is very terse, we are expanding on that
<ikonia> topyli: I take the point, but I feel the council should stop working on documents like this and start actually gaining the confidence of the operators and community it serves
<jussi> and submitting the document to you for evaluation and help is part of communicating and inclusion.
<ikonia> jussi: same point, submitting a document that doesn't need changing, isn't what people want,
<tsimpson> currently there really is near no policy on how ops should act, so users can not tell if an op is overstepping their bounds or acting inappropriately
<jussi> We arent forcing changes, just saying, ok, this is happening, we are writing some stuff down, and allowing you to take part.
<tsimpson> that is a cause of problems
<ikonia> tsimpson: there are guidlines exactly the same as the users
<tsimpson> operators have more requirements on their behaviour than users do
<topyli> ikonia: operators have committed to much more than that
<ikonia> topyli: yes, but those commitments/guildlines are called out in the same way as the users
<IdleOne> IMO the problem is interpretation of the guidelines, one op will judge something to be a violation and an different op will not.
<jussi> ikonia: so you object to us modifying the guideline?
<ikonia> if you are going to call out specific operator rules/guidlines that an operator can be judged on, you need specific user rules that can be applied
<ikonia> jussi: yes, at this time
<nhandler> o/
<jussi> Well until you read the document, when nhandler gets her...
<tsimpson> hey nhandler :)
<jussi> hi nhandler
<topyli> nhandler: so. we were trying to decide whether or not to submit your draft for discussion, but the discussion started without it :)
<topyli> i for one think it's a good base and should be submitted on the mailing list
<nhandler> [LINK] https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ASFFoXLMT-guZGhoZmZxNG1fNTYyaHB3NzNxZGM&hl=en&authkey=CNCQ__wP
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ASFFoXLMT-guZGhoZmZxNG1fNTYyaHB3NzNxZGM&hl=en&authkey=CNCQ__wP
<ikonia> I find the concept of this document not required, and I find the situation it will bring - users complaining it was not followed unacceptable
<tsimpson> so you are saying that users should not be able to hold operators accountable?
<topyli> users should complain right now if something goes against the spirit of that doc
<ikonia> nope, I'm saying they should be judged on common sense
<ikonia> not by a document
<tsimpson> common sense seems vary wildly
<ikonia> I don't think it does
<ikonia> most people in the operator team are in agreement on most users behaviour and when it doesn't agree it talks it thorugh and it's resolved with the user
<ikonia> I don't see an issue currently, if you do, we need to talk about it
<ikonia> I really find the word "job" thorughout the document inappropriate, although I appreciate the context it's meant in
<topyli> let's submit it to the mailing list. we need feedback from everyone in the team who wants to chip in, not the few who are here
<tsimpson> we aren't deciding to implement the changes, we are only discussing the document at the moment
<topyli> not useful debating details in the meeting. let's decide whethr or not submit it
<tsimpson> comments and modification are welcome
<ikonia> cat /dev/null > document
<ikonia> send it to the list
<nhandler> One thing we would also like is some help converting it to a nicer wiki format
<nhandler> Bullets are much nicer than long documents :)
<ikonia> can I ask the council to also outline a similar document for council jobs, commitments and behaviour please.
<topyli> the irc council's duties and behavior are dictated by the community council, we can't really do that
<nhandler> Which are outlined at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/Charter
<ikonia> topyli: sure you can
<ikonia> nhandler: that is not specific and does not call out specific behaviour rules, such as your document
<ikonia> I'd like to see documentation for how the council should handle situations, that they can be judged on
<tsimpson> situations such as?
<ikonia> common things, like responding to email requests
<ikonia> a council member must always be active in -ops to comply with nhandler suggestion of eslcation to a council member
<ikonia> things like that,
<ikonia> it is your job to respond to an email request within 2 working days, etc
<IdleOne> I understand the need for a general "this is how you should handle a situation" document so all the ops can be on the same page. What worries me is that if we starts creating these documents without covering every possible situation they will end up being used against ops who don't follow them to the letter.
<topyli> ikonia: please open an item for a council meeting, and discuss this. we are talking about nhandler's draft
<ikonia> topyli: no, I'm asking the council members (one of them) to take an action for this
<topyli> on what? being on call at all times on -ops?
<ikonia> document the processes you follow for core issues,
<nhandler> IdleOne: Which is at this point something that has not happened and can be dealt with when and if the time comes. The document does address several issues that have come up in the past
<topyli> the email responsiveness request is certainly valid and true
<ikonia> topyli: that's part of it, yes, a council member must be available in -ops at all times to fall in line with nhandler's documented and judged escalation path
<nhandler> ikonia: Uh, where are you getting that from?
<ikonia> nhandler: you're document
<IdleOne> nhandler: at this time I am not against such documentation so current and future ops have a base line to follow. I will reserve judgment on the semi-final version when it is available
<topyli> ikonia: the document suggests consulting other ops. if the issue persists, contact the council
<nhandler> ikonia: Care to point me to the part where that is stated?
<ikonia> yes, so there will need to be a council member available
<tsimpson> ikonia: the document just says to contact a a member of the council, not that they need to be in -ops
<topyli> it doesn't mean you should consult the council within 10 minutes of someone cursing on #ubuntu
<tsimpson> we have our own council channel, and email
<ikonia> tsimpson: ok, then a council member needs to be availabvle 24x7 for escalation
<ikonia> by irc/email/whatever
<ikonia> topyli: if there is an issue of persistant ban evasion, the path is to escalate to the council, the council must be available then to deeal with it
<tsimpson> we need to be contactable 24/7, which we are
<ikonia> that's not documented
<tsimpson> neither is what you are saying
<ikonia> tsimpson: that should go in your rules and behabvioru document I've requested
<ikonia> tsimpson: it is, in nhandler's proposal
<tsimpson> no, it says that you should contact a council member, not contact them directly and await a response before doing anything else
<ikonia> tsimpson: yes, so if it goes to another op, they can't resolve it, it needs to go to the council, then the council need to be available
<ikonia> that's the path the document says as a set of rules to be followed
<topyli> exactly
<topyli> which btw is how things are now
<ikonia> if you are documenting an escalation path, they need to be available, more so as you are using this document to judge operator decisions
<IdleOne> they are available, via irc and email
<ikonia> topyli: no it's not, the council are not available 24x7 to deal with eslcation,
<ikonia> no they are not
<tsimpson> ikonia: well fortunately we are only asking for comments on the document now, not implementing it
<ikonia> tsimpson: you're getting comments back
<tsimpson> yes, I know
<tsimpson> that's what I did mean there, sorry
<ikonia> cool
<IdleOne> ikonia: the ability to contact the council is already implemented, but we can't not expect anybody to be available 24/7 to resolve an issue immediately
<IdleOne> can not*
<topyli> we need more than one comment though. nhandler, would you action this by sending the email?
<ikonia> IdleOne: yes you can if you are being judged on the escalation path
<nhandler> topyli: Yes
<ikonia> IdleOne: this document is to judge operators and assure they follow a procedure, if that procedure ends with passing the imediate issue over to the council, they need to be there to take it, which as irc is 24x7 they need to be hter
<topyli> nhandler: great. meeting moves on :)
<ikonia> what's the next item ?
<nhandler> Giving me a formal [ACTION] ;)
<topyli> :)
<tsimpson> [action] nhandler to send the document to the IRC mailing list for discussion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to send the document to the IRC mailing list for discussion
<IdleOne> ikonia: in a case like a persistent ban evader, if the council isn't around to act within 5 minutes we can continue to set bans/mute the problem user. I think you asking for anyone one of us (IRCC and ops team) to be here 24/7 to deal with an issue is unrealistic
<ikonia> IdleOne: I agree it's unrealistic and uncalled for, but I'm not writing a document that says here is what you do
<topyli> no new bugs on launchpad
<ikonia> finished any of the other outstanding items ?
<IdleOne> the document isn't a firm "this is how to do it" but more of a this is how you can handle a situation if unclear
<ikonia> IdleOne: I find the doucment insulting
<tsimpson> [topic] Any other business
<ikonia> IdleOne: it IS a firm how you do it
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<ikonia> tsimpson: yup, finished any of the other outstanding items ?
<ikonia> shell policy, long term problem user policy, etc ?
<ikonia> you know the stuff that was raised months ago ?
<ikonia> I've got quite a list here
<topyli> status is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReports , hoping it's up to date :)
<IdleOne> ikonia: I don't mean to keep harping about it but I didn't read as a law that must be followed.
<ikonia> IdleOne: then you didn't read it correct, it is a document showing how operators should act and be judged on it
<ikonia> topyli: doesn't really explain that much
<IdleOne> I will read it again.
<topyli> nobody is being judged btw
<ikonia> topyli: well, you are as you are saying operators are not following the guidelines so this document is to set out a clear policy that should be followed
<ikonia> therefore if you don't follow it, there is room for judgment
<topyli> it is a howto
<ikonia> really, that wasn't what was said at the start, it was said people where not following the guidelines
<IdleOne> ikonia: what worries me is that we will end up being judged by the problem users and they will use such documents as base to argue/fight op decisions
<ikonia> IdleOne: I fully agree,
<IdleOne> I am not worried about being judged by my peers
<tsimpson> IdleOne: that's why there is an appeal process with humans managing the process
<ikonia> ok, so back to the meeting
<ikonia> can I again request the council members take an action to document there issue resolution process with timescales and commiemtns
<topyli> which process is that? what we have done is we're making an effort to not have issues without an owner. i hope that will help
<ikonia> topyli: you must have a process to follow for dealing with issues and requests including commiments to respond by $X time etc ?
<ikonia> or is that process just common sense ?
<topyli> since you don't want documentation, you must be trying to make a joke
<ikonia> no, if you're pushing down documentation on how to behave, I want to see documented your behaviour and process commitments
<ikonia> it's a two way street
<ikonia> I'm still waiting for my actions to be implimented or responded too, yet  you all seem to find time to write some more documents for the operators to follow
<tsimpson> we already have that in the charter
<ikonia> so lets have it a two way street, lets document your processes and guidelines and commitments to be used
<ikonia> tsimpson: no, the charter is vauge, it doesn't set out the processes or the time scale commitments
<ikonia> tsimpson: the charter is as vague as the current operator guidlines that don't appear to be acceptable
<ikonia> you want to get specific, I want to see specifcs for your commitments, process and behaviour too
<tsimpson> we are not the directly user-facing IRC ops
<ikonia> I don't feel the council has been living up to the charter, so I want to see it clearly agreed
<topyli> we are right now trying to craft a document in concert with the whole team. we are not "pushing down" anything. please try and work on basis of reality, even when ranting
<tsimpson> what part of the charter do you think we failed at?
<ikonia> tsimpson: yes you are, and you are user facing to the IRC team (me)
<tsimpson> ikonia: what part of the charter do you think we failed at?
<ikonia> hello ?
<IdleOne> yes
<IdleOne> ikonia: ikonia_ I think you are lagged.
<ikonia> sorry my connection is having an issue
<ikonia> ok, it seems to be back, apologies
<tsimpson> the meeting is overrunning
<ikonia> then I'll drop it and take it to the list
<ikonia> (I'm sure you can guess I'm not very happy with this)
<tsimpson> [action] tsimpson to complete the fixed agenda items
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to complete the fixed agenda items
<tsimpson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:05.
<topyli> if the council is not fulfilling the charter, that's important. ikonia, please do bring it up
<IdleOne> thanks for the meeting.
<ikonia> topyli: I've brought it up before
<ikonia> I don't see change
<ikonia> I see the same loop
<topyli> i see abstract unhappiness, with no fixable issues or suggestions how to improve. might be a language issue though, mine's not perfect
<ikonia> topyli: it's not, it's just total lack of faith with what the council are doing
<ikonia> topyli: I'll raise it for the next meeting
<topyli> good, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-01-02
<khm> Debate between Christianity and Islam :(Is the Bible God's Word?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlA22NNFlDw - E-mail:M4.Guest@Gmail.com
<bkerensa> =/
<elky> seems to have done it to all the channels
<broder> so...no dmb meeting then?
<cody-somerville> One moment.
<cody-somerville> bdrung, Laney, micahg, tumbleweed: ping
<bdrung> pong
 * micahg is here
<tumbleweed> o/
<Laney> hai
<Laney> (somewhat)
<cody-somerville> Perfect. Looks like we have quorum.
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  2 19:06:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is cody-somerville. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cody-somerville> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<cody-somerville> #subtopic cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
<cody-somerville> I have a draft prepared and will be sending it to DMB mailing list today.
<cody-somerville> #topic stgraber to create desktop-extra set
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: stgraber to create desktop-extra set
<cody-somerville> stgraber is absent, will carry action item
<cody-somerville> #topic bdrung to talk to the TB about harmonising DMB members' expiration dates for easier restaffing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bdrung to talk to the TB about harmonising DMB members' expiration dates for easier restaffing
<cody-somerville> bdrung, you have the floor :)
<bdrung> sorry, i haven't asked the TB yet
<cody-somerville> Acked. Action carried.
<cody-somerville> #topic MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
<cody-somerville> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MahyuddinSusanto/MOTUApplication
<cody-somerville> udienz, Hello. Could you please indicate you're present by introducing yourself and your application?
<udienz> Sure
<udienz> My name is Mahyuddin Susanto, i'm 26 Indonesian.
<udienz> I have been contributing to universe for almost a year, i started contributing to Ubuntu when binutils-gold transitions.
<udienz> I'm doing sync, merge, SRU in Ubuntu, perhaps over 100 packages have been uploaded.
<udienz> In Debian, i stated at least 2 years but for packaging i have been started for a year. I'm Debian Maintainer and my QA page is http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=udienz@ubuntu.com&comaint=yes. I have migrating proftpd/cacti/pdnsd from cdbs (pdnsd), dpatch (proftpd/cacti) to quilt. I'm not always use quilt but quilt is my best chioce for patching system.
<udienz> I'm also packaging from strach in Ubuntu, named gkamus and aspell-id. All my packages in Debian (with co-maintained) easily sync from Debian.
<udienz> .enough
<Laney> why did you choose to package those things directly in Ubuntu?
<udienz> Laney, it just technical problem. I've already RFS-ing both packages but i'm not got sponsorship in debian
<Laney> ok
<Laney> (stupid connection keeps hanging)
<micahg> udienz: are you aware of the various freezes and what is appropriate to be uploaded during those times?
<udienz> micahg, yes i aware, during FF i cannot import packages except those packages fixing bugs or really important
<cody-somerville> udienz, How do you determine if its really important or not?
<Laney> and who can you ask if unsure?
<udienz> cody-somerville, depend on bug importance, effecting many users, security bug, ftbfs
<udienz> Laney, if im unsure i'll ask in #ubuntu-motu first
<udienz> or #ubuntu-devel
<micahg> udienz: so, after feature freeze if a lot of users were requesting a new version of a program with new features, you'd upload it?
<udienz> micahg, i;m not really sure, but if new upstream version fixing many important bug, i'll ask to other dev first rather than direct upload
<udienz> *i'm not sure
<tumbleweed> udienz: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<cody-somerville> udienz, What role does the release team play and how can they help you?
<udienz> tumbleweed, yes, also #ubuntu-discuss, #ubuntu-motu
<bdrung> udienz: he meant the mailing list, not irc channel
<udienz> cody-somerville, during FF release team will five input wether package accepted or not
<udienz> bdrung, sorry i mean list
<udienz> s/ubuntu-discuss/devel-discuss
<micahg> udienz: are you referring to Feature Freeze or Final Freeze when you say FF
<cody-somerville> udienz, With your recent merge of laptop-mode-tools, could you explain why you decided to do a merge instead of a sync (maybe after trying to push the change upstream?): https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/laptop-mode-tools/1.60-1ubuntu1
<udienz> micahg, Feature Freeze in first and Final Freeze while i answered cody-somerville. Sorry a little panic at here
<cody-somerville> udienz, No need to panic. :)
<udienz> cody-somerville, i forget about last change :(
<cody-somerville> udienz, No problem. Good example of why its not a bad idea to note such reasons in the changelog - to make it easier to remember.
<cody-somerville> Do any other members have questions before we proceed to vote?
<tumbleweed> one quick one
<tumbleweed> jdstrand's concerns were mostly about minor details such as checking the changelog and upload destination
<tumbleweed> which file is a good one to quickly skim over before uploading?
<udienz> tumbleweed, sorry. what is skim?
<tumbleweed> to read quickly, to check for mistakes
<udienz> tumbleweed, i think patch files and changelog (by read at debdiff)
<tumbleweed> yes, that's a good idea, when it's short enough to be readable
<tumbleweed> I also suggest looking at the .changes file, I sometimes notice that I forgot to close bugs, when I look at that
<micahg> right, it lists as one of the lines in the .changes file all the bugs closed by the upload
<micahg> udienz: have you ever file for a freeze exception and when do you think it's appropriate to do so?
<micahg> *filed
<udienz> micahg, i'm not remember but i haven't filed freeze exceptions. I think when the changes solved important bug. Like my statement before
<micahg> udienz: have you read the documentation regarding freeze exceptions?
<udienz> yes
<cody-somerville> #vote MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
<meetingology> Please vote on: MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cody-somerville> bdrung is afk at the moment but has voted +1
<tumbleweed> +1 [ and please ask the release team if you need any guidance during freezes ]
<meetingology> +1 [ and please ask the release team if you need any guidance during freezes ] received from tumbleweed
<cody-somerville> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cody-somerville
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<micahg> +0 good work overall, but I'm a little concerned over freezes still (part of the difference between uploading to Ubuntu rather than Debian is knowing what's appropriate when as it comes up a lot more often)
<meetingology> +0 good work overall, but I'm a little concerned over freezes still (part of the difference between uploading to Ubuntu rather than Debian is knowing what's appropriate when as it comes up a lot more often) received from micahg
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cody-somerville> udienz, Congratulations. Welcome to MOTU.
<udienz> Thanks cody-somerville, micahg, tumbleweed, Laney and bdrung!
<Laney> congrats!
<cody-somerville> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
<broder> o/
<cody-somerville> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EvanBroder/CoreDevApplication
<cody-somerville> broder, Please introduce yourself and your application.
<broder> Hi folks. I'm Evan, and I'm applying for core dev. I've been contributing to Ubuntu since late 2008, and I've been a member of MOTU since late 2009
<broder> I work a lot on backports and SRUs. I try to help with sponsorship as much as I can
<broder> Past that it's a lot of pretty random stuff
<broder> I started at a SF Bay Area startup about a year and a half ago, where I'm basically working on an Ubuntu derivative, which means that I get to spend even more time working on Ubuntu now
<broder> I also setup http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/ and have been working to improve it to make it more useful to Ubuntu
<broder> .
<cody-somerville> broder, Where do you see yourself in three years?
<broder> Hmm, I'm not really sure. In terms of Ubuntu, I really value being a part of the developer community, and I don't think that's likely to change. I definitely feel like my involvement in the community is increasing over time, and I think it's possible that I'll hit the high point of that soon, but I don't expect to completely vanish
<cody-somerville> broder, What do you feel is the most important quality of a strong leader?
<broder> I think that leadership is about solving problems, whether those are at a technical level, or personal level, or whatever, so the most important thing is to be able to understand problems, and to be able to dig below the surface of problems
<tumbleweed> I'm a bit afraid to poke your "what I like least about ubuntu" statements, as those are things we spend hours discussing over beer at every UDS
<broder> I'll admit there that my thoughts in the area aren't quite as fully-baked as I'd like, but I still feel pretty strongly about the overall concept
<tumbleweed> I think you may be right about putting more emphesis on the upstream and less on the gardening, but when we are all gardeners, that's hard
<tumbleweed> I suppose I should do something about that "put project cleansweep jobs into the sponsorship queue" task...
<broder> I'm not actually convinced that we're all gardeners, even if we're all garden*ing*. If you look at the people who are top contributors to the project, they're all very skilled developers and debuggers, too
<tumbleweed> I guess so, and we aren't here for the gardening
<broder> I do think there's an important side-point that we should be thinking as hard as we can on ways to automate or eliminate gardening
<cody-somerville> broder, Where do you think time can be found to do upstream patch review?
<micahg> well, I don't think it's something we can eliminate, but automation can certainly help
<broder> cody-somerville: We've talked about incorporating operation cleansweep into the responsibilities of patch piloting. I think that's the obvious place to at least start
<micahg> well, it's already part of patch piloting when people exhaust opportunities in the sponsorship queue
<cody-somerville> Any additional questions?
<broder> micahg: It's nominally part of patch piloting, but I don't think that's actually happened in practice. I think getting some items from cleansweep onto the sponsor queue is a prerequisite for that
<micahg> broder: I've seen people reporting on it in their pilot reports to ubuntu-devel@l.u.c
<bdrung> broder: you talked about automation. do you see any places where we could add automation?
<broder> bdrung: Well, I guess one example could be the multiarch stuff. Based on my experiences multiarching the gtkmm stack, I think an initial attempt at multiarch-ification could be done by a script if it had enough awareness of common types of packaging, etc.
<broder> Obviously the output would need to be sanity checked
<micahg> if we could only get upstreams to stop hardcoding paths
<cody-somerville> #vote Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cody-somerville> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cody-somerville
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<micahg> +1 good packaging work, good project leadership
<meetingology> +1 good packaging work, good project leadership received from micahg
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<cody-somerville> Laney provides +1
<micahg> stgraber did as well IIRC
<cody-somerville> stgraber provides +1
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> broder: congrats
<broder> Thanks everybody :-D
<cody-somerville> broder, Congratulations. Welcome to Core Dev.
<cody-somerville> broder, If you have any questions about your new responsibilities, please don't hesitate to get in contact with the DMB or a fellow core developer.
 * broder nods
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, that, I believe, concludes today's meeting.
<bdrung> broder: congrats
<micahg> cody-somerville: oh, laney also gave a +1 for broder :)
<micahg> ah, you included that
 * micahg needs caffeine
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  2 20:28:12 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-02-19.06.moin.txt
<cody-somerville> Thank you folks! Look for meeting minutes and changes in launchpad later today.
<udienz> broder: Congrats!
<broder> udienz: thanks, same to you
<stgraber> cody-somerville: I created the package set during our last meeting and then updated it based on jbicha's e-mail (that I Cced to the mailing-list), so I guess we can drop that action ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-01-03
<oscalation> Evening.
<hallyn> \o
<SpamapS> half-here
<Ursinha> \o
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<adam_g> o/
<utlemming> \o
<smb> somehow there
<hallyn> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  3 16:00:22 2012 UTC.  The chair is hallyn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<RoAkSoAx> was just about to start it :P
<Daviey> o/
<hallyn> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: you're after me. :)
<hallyn> no  topics :)
<m_3> o/
<hallyn> #topic Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Precise Development
<hallyn> over to Daviey
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: ;)
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> We are all catching up on backlog email no dohbt ;)
<SpamapS> Daviey: back from the hinterlands?
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html needs some lovin'
<SpamapS> Daviey: I have another one for that list I think
<Daviey> SpamapS: i'm still on holiday :)
 * smb awes at the use of German... :)
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/triage-report.html needs some love!
<Daviey> Is there anything of particular nature onanyones mind?
<hallyn> eh what?  netcf is packaged.  Fixed the status of that bug
<rbasak> I can take bug 906735, that seems simple enough
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 906735 in puppet (Ubuntu) "package installation should create /var/log/puppet" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/906735
<SpamapS> bug #898340 needs to be on the release radar I think
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 898340 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu) "mysql clients statically link libmysqlclient in" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898340
<hallyn> right now p11-kit is on my mind - can't check email over mutt!
<Daviey> adam_g: How are the charms looking for openstack?
<adam_g> Daviey: horizon + keystone submitted to for approval in to the charm store
<Daviey> SpamapS: are you one of the reviewers? :)
<m_3> adam_g: gotta tag them with new-charm to hit the review queue
<adam_g> i submitted them after EOD friday prior to holiday
<SpamapS> I will definitely review
<Daviey> jamespage: Are you off rotation from stable now?
<adam_g> m_3: ah, ill do that
<jamespage> Daviey: yep!
<Daviey> jamespage: viable to work on the CI lab this week?
<jamespage> Daviey: almost certainly
 * SpamapS goes afk to usher family out the door
<jamespage> (== yes)
<hallyn> bug 607039 needs module-init-tools love, but i'm not sure how best to do it since we differ from debian
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607039 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "NFS4 automount using replicated servers doesn't work" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607039
<Daviey> So.. If everyone can make sure they: - review WI'
<Daviey> s to make srue they uare up to date. - udp
<Daviey> up to date
<Daviey> ()[Ddamn lag)
<smb> Daviey, less coffee
<Daviey> Burn through the incoming bug list..
<Daviey> and look for targets for next week, that would rock
<Daviey> any questions?
<hallyn> pour some on the intertubes
<hallyn> 'look for targets for next week'?
<Daviey> hallyn: Things that are better addressed face-to-face
<Daviey> ()[DSome of Canonical server team are meeting face to face next week
<hallyn> ok
<hallyn> moving on?
<Daviey> rocking
<hallyn> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> little shindig next week, according to rumors
<Daviey> Next week, some of server team in Budapest
<Daviey> Fosdem in feb
<Daviey> ()[D4-5th
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<Daviey> jamespage: have you been closer to this?
<jamespage> in some areas probably
<hallyn> ?
<hallyn> what is 'this'?
<Daviey> jamespage: how is automated looking?
<Daviey> (QA and testing)
<hallyn> ah
<jamespage> I put a few new ISO install tests live just before Chirstmas; so we now have daily testing of Multi-volume LVM and RAID-1 installs
<hallyn> neat
<jamespage> patrickmw has put a new precise dashboard live for the daily testing - https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/view/Daily/?
<hggdh> which means we are pretty much complete for ISO testing, I guess
<Daviey> oooo
<Daviey> hey hggdh  o/
<jamespage> you will notice the the precise ec2 images are broken ATM - nice kernel oops
<hggdh> Daviey: happy new year, etc :-)
 * jamespage digs for the bug
<Daviey> eeek
<jamespage> bug 911204
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911204 in linux (Ubuntu) "precise ec2 images fail to boot with kernel oops" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911204
<smb> Seems someone upstream managed to break Xen/EC2 guests on Precise by some rtc changes. I believe to understand the problem by now. Need to start discussion.
<Daviey> \o/
<jamespage> :-(
<hggdh> and minimal-virtual still shows about 100M more than it should for installed size... must be something we are adding in on the jenkins test
<jamespage> hggdh: no - the test takes that into account - amd64 is to large
<hggdh> jamespage: by 100M?
<hggdh> er, O(100)
<jamespage> yes I think so
<smb> jamespage, I hope to be able to try a patch later on. At least I can see it to some degree on my local system, too.
<jamespage> Openstack automated testing progress has been slow but hopefully progress in the next few days
<jamespage> adam_g, zul and I need to catchup as we have all been working on misc pieces of the puzzle
<adam_g> jamespage: id love to actually pair with you on that now that we can deploy keystone + horizon with the other charms
<zul> indeed
<jamespage> +1 to that
<jamespage> I'll make sure that all of the infrastructure pieces are done this week
<jamespage> it will make a good target to complete early during the sprint
<jamespage> thats it from me...
<hallyn> ok, thanks - moving on
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<Daviey> sm	hey
<smb> Beside of the new precise breakage... not much to report yet
<Daviey> I hear the ec2 precise kernel is bad.. :)
<smb> Just when one does not look for 2 weeks
<smb> On the other hand the change to make it boot at all came in via upstream. :-P
<Daviey> bug 902951 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 902951 in linux (Ubuntu) "CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK shouldnt be a module" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902951
<smb> Probably goes alongside with the problem we have with the xen pv drivers
<Daviey> zul: ^?
<zul> Daviey: thats with the amd64 kernel i havent tried it recently
<smb> While I think that one was already in the installer but needed a special action to load the module
<Daviey> ahh
<Daviey> smb: Are you aware how the various ARM kernels are doing?
<Daviey> rbasak: ^^?
<smb> Daviey, No
 * rbasak doesn't know
<Daviey> I'm concerned we'll notice something late in the cycle.
<rbasak> I've not tried precise on a pandaboard yet but I can stick that in my todo if you like
<smb> Daviey, Have we committed really there. Given that Xen on arm is just being done
<hallyn> #action rbasak to try precise on pandaboard
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to try precise on pandaboard
<Daviey> smb: Not in specific to xen on arm, that is a nice to have / SRU / Universe thing, if possible
<Daviey> Just general ARM kernel support.
<Daviey> Last cycle we noticed missi g modules very late
<smb> Daviey, Ah... Ok, have not noticed anyone shouting at me. But you can ask ppisati maybe
<Daviey> ok, thanks!
<Daviey> ..
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<hallyn> (should we swap in rbasak for that?)
<hallyn> i'll take that as a yes, and ask rbasak: any other arm related news?
<hallyn> (rbasak: you interface regularly with NCommander?)
<rbasak> OK, I'll check with NCommander in the weekly ARM meeting, I can swap Daviey for rbasak in their agenda too
<hallyn> hm, well moving on
<hallyn> oops
<hallyn> rbasak: thanks
<rbasak> No news as far as I'm aware. I'll test precise on a panda this week
<hallyn> #action hallyn to swap rbasak for NCommander in arm agenda section
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn to swap rbasak for NCommander in arm agenda section
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<hallyn> moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<rbasak> bug 858878 - RoAkSoAx, where are we with that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 858878 in cobbler (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lack of csrf protection in cobbler-web" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858878
<rbasak> (this is for the SRU rather than Precise)
<RoAkSoAx> rbasak: so changes were uncommitted as the security process is different, so really there's nothing I can do
<adam_g> zul: when is the next openstack snapshot going out?
<RoAkSoAx> rbasak: as it is a security update not an SRU
<rbasak> OK, so does someone else need to sponsor it?
<RoAkSoAx> rbasak: uyes someone from the security team
<zul> adam_g: friday
<RoAkSoAx> rbasak: I can'
<rbasak> or are we just waiting on the security team?
<rbasak> OK I'll poke them, thanks
<Daviey> rbasak: is there a prepped security update?
<RoAkSoAx> rbasak: I can't recall who was helping me on that and said that he will push it thru, but then I went on holidays and forgot, sorry :(
<adam_g> zul: any chance it can roast for a day or two in a PPA first?
<rbasak> Daviey: yes, except that I need to change the pocket presumably
<rbasak> Daviey: lp:~racb/ubuntu/oneiric/cobbler/security_201112
<zul> adam_g: sure i can let it stew in a ppa by thursday
<adam_g> zul: if you can let it simmer there, that'd be cool. we can boil out any bugs before end of week so we're in good shape in budapest
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: rbasak I think its wise to check the security ppa, cause, AFAIK, it was supposed to hit the PPA in order to test, and I was gonna be ping to do so
<rbasak> ah, the pocket is correct. so just waiting for sponsor/review
<zul> adam_g: no worries
<hallyn> all right, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<hallyn> none next week i assume, so
<hallyn> Tuesday, Jan 17 at 16:00 UTC
<hallyn> thanks, all
<hallyn> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  3 16:36:15 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-03-16.00.moin.txt
<RoAkSoAx>   /win 3
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<apw> o/
<kamal> o/
<arges> o/
<ppisati> o/
<tgardner> o/
<sforshee> o/
<herton> o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  3 17:00:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> P/omap4: nothing new to report this week.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incomming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-team-precise-alpha-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw        || hardware-p-kernel-boot                || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 7 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || foundations-p-ipv6                    || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || cking      || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || jsalisbury || other-p-bug-workflows                 || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara  || hardware-p-kernel-version-and-flavors || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 10 work items||
<ogasawara> || tgardner   || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Alpha-2 work items.  Note that Alpha-2 is Thurs Feb 2.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<cking> Power Management:
<cking>  * Write up results from wake events analysis and file lots of bugs
<cking>    http://zinc.canonical.com/~cking/power-benchmarking/events/
<cking>  * Write cpustat: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/cking/cpustat.git
<cking>    Test CPU utilization, results:
<cking>    http://zinc.canonical.com/~cking/power-benchmarking/cpu/
<cking>  * Investigate MSR_IA32_ENERGY_PERF_BIAS on sandybridge, no +ve results
<cking>    need to rig up Ivybridge desktop to sanity check this.
<cking>  * LP#911325 - new pm-utils scripts to save power
<cking>  * Collect power measurements on Hardy, Lucid, Maverick, Natty, Oneiric, Precise
<cking> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Over the holiday break we rebased to v3.2-rc7 and uploaded.  Aside from that not much else has been done.
<ogasawara> Important Upcoming Dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Feb 2 - Alpha 2 (~4 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw>  
<apw> || Package                                  || Open      ||
<apw> ||                                          ||           ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||   10 (-3) ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    7 (-3) ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    8 (-2) ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    9 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    7 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux Precise                            ||    6 (-2) ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    7 (-3) ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    7 (-4) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    7 (-3) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    7 (-3) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    9 (-2) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    9 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    7 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Precise                   ||    6 (-2) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    8 (-2) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    9 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-oneiric Lucid         ||    7 (-1) ||
<apw>  
<apw> We have had two new CVEs added to the matrix since the last report.  Two of those without upstream fixes have had those identified and have been triaged to specific releases.
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (19/12):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy - 2.6.24-30.98
<bjf>   * New kernel, now in verification. Contains commits for 5 CVEs.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Lucid - 2.6.32-38.82
<bjf>   * New kernel, waiting to be copied to -proposed. Contains a stable upstream
<bjf>     release as well as some CVEs. This also turns CONFIG_NET_NS back on.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.64
<bjf>   * New kernel, waiting to be copied to -proposed. Contains a rare, stable
<bjf>     upstream release as well as some CVEs.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Natty - 2.6.38-13.53
<bjf>   * New kernel, now being built.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Oneiric - 3.0.0-15.25
<bjf>   * New kernel, now in verification. A regression was identified in the
<bjf>     previous -proposed kernel (bug 904569). The offending commit was reverted
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 904569 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Linux 3.0.0-15 causes laptops to fail to resume from suspend (Dell XPS 1645, Sony Vaio VPCF1390)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904569
<bjf>     and this kernel produced.
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  3 17:06:55 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-03-17.00.moin.txt
<czajkowski> stgraber: ping
<StefandeVries> Wasn't there supposed to be an EMEA meeting now?
<drubin> StefandeVries: yes if we get enough members
<leoquant> i thought so StefandeVries
<czajkowski> I'm here
<czajkowski> highvoltage: ogra_ stgraber
<czajkowski> iulian: ping
<czajkowski> commandoline: you here?
<commandoline> I am
<commandoline> hi
<iulian> czajkowski: Here.
 * ogra_ looks
<drubin> that is 4 of us
<czajkowski> right 4 of us and 1 candidate
<czajkowski> lets get going shall we
<czajkowski> #meeting
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  3 20:10:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> commandoline: welcome
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/marten-de-vries
<commandoline> thanks
<czajkowski> commandoline: care to tell us a little about yourself
<commandoline> Hello, I am Marten de Vries, and live in the Netherlands. My main Ubuntu contributions are in the Ubuntu Nederland loco team, mostly in its webteam and Mwanzo team. (The last of them helps users that want to start contributing to Ubuntu.)
 * stgraber waves
<czajkowski> drubin: iulian ogra_ stgraber thanks
<czajkowski> commandoline: can you tell us some more about the Mwanzo team ?
<drubin> o/
<commandoline> Of course, it teaches Ubuntu users more about how to contribute to Ubuntu
<commandoline> e.g. via workshops (like the international Ubuntu classroom project)
<commandoline> but it's also the place where people are pointed to in the Dutch loco if they want to contribute but don't know how
<commandoline> so to our IRC channel
<czajkowski> commandoline: ca I ask why a seperate team from say the beginners team that already exists?
<czajkowski> *can
<commandoline> czajkowski: the difference is we support users in Dutch
<commandoline> * help, my English isn't perfect either :P
<czajkowski> that's fine
<drubin> commandoline: How does working on open  teacher differ from your work with ubuntu?
<commandoline> drubin: well, it's officially a separate project and this is about Ubuntu Membership. But of course it's in the repo's now thanks to porthose
<commandoline> and it's also opensource software, of which all main devs are Ubuntu NL community members at the moment.
<czajkowski> you mention the classroom project, do you see yourself getting more involved in the greater ubuntu wide community ?
<commandoline> czajkowski: for you question: it's not just helping in Dutch by the way, but also that all the wiki pages etc. are in dutch
<drubin> commandoline: that is why I asked how it differed. It is interesting to see how external projects make it into peoples work.
<iulian> commandoline: Let's say that I'm a new Dutch user who wants to contribute to Ubuntu but my English is not that good. How can I get in touch with Mwanzo? Do you guys have a place where you advertise it? How would I become aware of its existence?
<drubin> commandoline: Nice on it being a commnunity project.
 * drubin is ready to vote btw
 * ogra_ too,
<commandoline> so you just don't need to know a word of English, which some people in the netherlands don't.
<czajkowski> ogra_: stgraber iulian any more comments/questions?
<commandoline> drubin: ok
 * stgraber is ready to vote
<Thomas_de_Graaff> \o/
<commandoline> iulian: well, you probably would go to the Ubuntu NL Forum
<commandoline> it's the place where most of the dutch community members are
<commandoline> often to get support when installing e.g.
<commandoline> there are links there to the mwanzo team
<commandoline> and even a subforum where we advertise what we do
<commandoline> so you'd see it via the dutch loco site
<iulian> commandoline: OK, brill. Thanks.
<iulian> czajkowski: Ready.
<commandoline> and also via IRC, maybe
<Ronnie> \o/
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the commandoline membership.
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the commandoline membership.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<StefandeVries> \o/
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<leoquant> \o/ for commandoline
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<ogra_> +1 (awesome testimonials, great to see such a big cheering crowd here)
<meetingology> +1 (awesome testimonials, great to see such a big cheering crowd here) received from ogra_
<drubin> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from drubin
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the commandoline membership.
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<CasW> By the way; I wanted to add a testimonial, too, but I couldn't find it (and I was in a hurry) ;)
<drubin> i forgot you can include reasons with the new bot
<ogra_> congrats commandoline
<drubin> congrats commandoline
<Thomas_de_Graaff> congrats commandoline :D
<leoquant> great commandoline ! congrats
<CasW> Congrats, commandoline! :D
<StefandeVries> Congratulations, commandoline :)
<czajkowski> congratulations
<Ronnie> great work commandoline
<commandoline> thanks EMEA membership board :)
<iulian> Well done commandoline and keep up the good work.
<commandoline> and thanks all supporters from the loco!
<czajkowski> can someone add commandoline to the ubuntu members  please
<czajkowski> I'm lagging here
<toddy> Congratulations, commandoline :)
<iulian> And get those new Dutch guys here!
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  3 20:22:19 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-03-20.10.moin.txt
<iulian> czajkowski: On it.
<czajkowski> iulian: thanks
<czajkowski> ogra_: iulian stgraber drubin thanks for coming folks
<commandoline> iulian: on it :)
<ogra_> czajkowski, thanks for leading :)
<iulian> czajkowski: Done.
<stgraber> czajkowski: thanks for chairing
<czajkowski> no worries
<drubin> commandoline: thank you
<leoquant> thx board
<czajkowski> can someone else do the mail to the CC
<czajkowski> hands up
<drubin> me now needs to go get ready for work.
<czajkowski> before I nominate ;0
<czajkowski> ;)
<iulian> czajkowski: I think I know who you gonna nominate.
<iulian> czajkowski: I'll take care of it.
<czajkowski> iulian: thank you
<czajkowski> toodles till next month
<commandoline> bye
<StefandeVries> Thanks, board :)
<CasW> Yeah, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-01-04
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
<cjwatson> hi
<barry> hi
<bdmurray> hi
<jodh> hi
<slangasek> sorry I'm late... fighting a heckuva cold to ring in the new year :P
<doko> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 16:06:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> slangasek jodh doko cjwatson barry bdmurray ev stgraber
<slangasek> not much to report really, besides that I'm fighting a cold that's dragging me down
<slangasek> although ia32-libs is installable again, so I guess there's that
<barry> nice, so that will stop being held back?
<stgraber> slangasek: apt doesn't seem to agree with you, at least on my laptop
<slangasek> and I spent some time over the holidays puttering with maven-debian-helper to try to port it to dh(1) so we could eliminate cdbs from that corner... got a little annoyed with what I found in libshout when I converted it for multiarch
<slangasek> stgraber: oh, well, I currently have it installed :)
 * cjwatson tries in chdist
<slangasek> stgraber: happy to debug after the meeting if you're seeing issues
<slangasek> EOF
<stgraber> slangasek: "apt-get install ia32-libs winbind:amd64" works though, so seems to be an apt weirdness
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> perhaps it worked better for me because I already had winbind installed
<slangasek> so that sounds like the stock "apt picks the foreign-arch package when it should pick the native-arch one" bug
<jodh> Discussions and reviews with stgraber re mountall change for disabling
<jodh> mounting of already mounted directories. Discussions regarding new
<jodh> setuid/setgid stanzas and applicability to different job processes.
<jodh> Worked on tests for logging of "early" Upstart job output to ensure that
<jodh> even jobs which *end* before the log disk is writeable have log files
<jodh> created when the disk does become writeable. Restarted effort to squish
<jodh> plymouth bug 553745 / bug 849414. Identified reason for failing tests
<jodh> when building upstart 1.4 in/on PPA/buildd: these environments are
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849414 in plymouth (Ubuntu Precise) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849414
<jodh> precise chroots with a lucid kernel. Unfortunately, the lucid kernel has
<jodh> different signal semantics to a precise kernel!
<jodh> So, anyone running tests as part of their build process needs to be *very* careful potentially.
<jodh> Ñ
<doko> - gcc-4.7 packaging updates, gcc-snapshot update
<doko> - clean up the kde upload mess
<doko> - start another rebuild test, gcc-4.7
<doko> - evaluate build failures for gcc-4.7 test rebuild on x86 and armhf
<doko>   and boost 4.7 fixes
<doko> - python2.6 dependency removals
<doko> - openjdk-6 update
<doko> - re-installation of arm machines (armhf now)
<doko> - another try at eglibc-2.15 (supposed to branch now)
<doko> - openmpi fixes for armhf and armel
<doko> - NEW processing, syncs and merges ...
<doko> - pestered people of multiarch triplets
<doko> (done)
<barry> doko: thanks for the py2.6 rebuilds
<doko> barry: zope2.12 is left (hint, hint ...), needs an update to zope2.13
<doko> maybe mterry was involved with this too?
<cjwatson> Back to +1 maintenance this month.  I've mostly been helping to clear the backlog of archive administration work from the holidays, especially trying to catch up on removals where we'd fallen behind, which involved sorting out quite a lot of font package renamings.
<cjwatson> Tracked down and fixed bug 900526.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 900526 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu Hardy) "d-i fails to divert initctl when upgrading packages during install" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900526
<cjwatson> Updated Wubi for precise.
<cjwatson> Landed a few more Launchpad branches: port to new python-apt API, stop wasting publisher time on obsolete and future series, and fixed new cron.germinate to not explode on dogfood.  Also QAed mvo's branch to extend the support-timeframe information in the archive for precise.
<barry> doko: i'll take a look
<cjwatson> Pulled and uploaded James' Upstart 1.4 branch - thanks!
<cjwatson> ..
<jodh> cjwatson: thank you!!
<cjwatson> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/792819/ - even 'ia32-libs winbind:amd64' doesn't work here
<barry> forwarded fix for bug 901840 to debian.  caught up on the holiday email avalanche.  got a response from the dbus-python maintainer that my branch is under review.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901840 in cython (Debian) "FTBFS due to test failures" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901840
<cjwatson> 'ia32-libs winbind:amd64 bluez-alsa:amd64 libcanberra-gtk-module:amd64' works
<bdmurray> bug triage of some important bugs reported over the holidays
<bdmurray> I've been working with flot (a different tool) for graphing and charting now too
<bdmurray> done
<stgraber> - Testing tracker
<stgraber>  - Added some live filtering of the builds
<stgraber>  - Every admin action is now logged
<stgraber>  - Re-introduced testcase subscription report
<stgraber>  - Introduced new "top testers" report
<stgraber>  - Some layout improvements
<stgraber> - SRUs
<stgraber>  - opencryptoki (TPM) is now in proposed for lucid, maverick and natty. Waiting for customer to do the testing.
<stgraber>  - Still waiting on initial testing by Trellis of the patched ifenslave-2.6 for Oneiric before uploading to proposed.
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - One more ifenslave-2.6 fix to properly deal with vlan tagging.
<stgraber>  - Prepared a blog post with the state of network in Ubuntu including some explanations and examples.
<stgraber>    http://www.stgraber.org/2012/01/04/networking-in-ubuntu-12-04-lts/
<stgraber>  - Merged, uploaded and backported the new tcpdump (bug 892285)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892285 in tcpdump (Ubuntu) "sFlow PDU data not correctly displayed" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892285
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Reworked my mountall patch based on James' comments, new version is waiting for review.
<slangasek> cjwatson: hmm, I suspect those are all the same kind of issue as libpam-winbind (following a dep on a M-A: foreign package down the wrong branch)
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Converted a bunch of packages to dh_python2 and sponsored some other, trying to get Edubuntu pysupport and pycentral free. Only one left is wxwidgets2.8.
<stgraber> (done)
<barry> stgraber: \o/
<stgraber> barry: for wxwidgets2.8 I'm not completely sure whether we want to sync/merge from Debian or keep our current version and cherry pick the dh_python2 change from Debian
<stgraber> barry: (I'm not at all familiar with wxwidgets)
<slangasek> and ev's on holiday today, so that's everyone
<slangasek> stgraber: it's wxwidgets, we want to do as little maintenance on it as possible - merge sounds good ;)
<barry> stgraber: yes, +1 for merging :)
<cjwatson> oh, yes, I have an alpha-2 bug waiting on ev to get back and look at it
<stgraber> ok, will do that then
<cjwatson> but he has mail about that
<barry> stgraber: thanks
<cjwatson> jodh: incidentally, bug 900526 which I mentioned above - you may want to be aware of that failure mode in case there've ever been upstart SRUs that changed initctl non-trivially, since you might end up with some incomprehensible archaeology otherwise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 900526 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu Hardy) "d-i fails to divert initctl when upgrading packages during install" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900526
<doko> stgraber, what are the diffs about?
<cjwatson> in particular the failure mode where you can end up with dpkg thinking upstart from -updates is installed but in fact the initctl binary is still the one from the release pocket
<jodh> cjwatson: thanks for the pointer!
<stgraber> doko: we mostly have a different upstream version (one that never made it to Debian) and 10 Ubuntu changes on top of that, not sure how much of that is in Debian. I'll have a look later today/tomorrow and get the exact diff with Debian
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Rally planning
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Rally planning
<slangasek> we have a rally coming up right around the corner... everyone should have concrete plans of what they're going to be using the face time for
<slangasek> of course these plans are all going to go out the window because of 20,000 interrupts from other teams, but we should plan nonetheless ;)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Rally/Precise/Foundations
<cjwatson> Just as a reminder, I'm not going to be at the rally, so if you want to get hold of me, plan videoconferencing :)
<cjwatson> I'm likely to be around unless I get sudden instructions to go to the hospital ...
<cjwatson> (If that happens, I'll try to let somebody know)
<slangasek> please populate that page this week, so that I can help you pull in people from other teams where needed, etc
<slangasek> and yes, if you need to coordinate with cjwatson on things, that will be via videoconference only :)
<slangasek> questions?
<slangasek> oh yes, planning for a team dinner for Wednesday... I trust that's agreeable to people as usual? :)
<doko> so maybe we can walk a bit further this time?
<slangasek> well, I'm up for a walk if everyone else is :)
<stgraber> sure, no problem with that
<barry> bring warm clothes :)
<slangasek> oh right, I'll need to find some warm clothes, won't I
 * slangasek shakes his fist at continental climates... I moved for a reason, you know
<stgraber> bah, from what I saw so far, it's actually kind of warm over there (5C vs -20C in Sherbrooke or 0C where I'm at the moment)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<MrChrisDruif> AOB?
<slangasek> any other business
<jodh> Any ideas why there is only an armhf build log for precise here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth ?
<bdmurray> I wanted to bring up bug 906633
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 906633 in Ubuntu CD Images "alpha pages should contain a link to the latest daily image" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/906633
<slangasek> jodh: because only armhf was built in precise - the other archs were built in oneiric
<slangasek> the package hasn't had a source upload since oneiric released
<slangasek> cjwatson: ^^ the above ubuntu-cdimage bug looks like a reasonable change to me in principle
<MrChrisDruif> Ow, I've got one. Why is the link in the Fridge to the Agende not working? I've changed YYYY/MMDD with the actual date of today
<cjwatson> yes, IIRC I asked Brian to file it :)
<jodh> slangasek: ok, ta.
<slangasek> cjwatson: heh :)
<cjwatson> MrChrisDruif: this is a foundations team meeting, we don't manage the fridge ...
<cjwatson> I don't think we generally have an agenda published in advance anyway
<cjwatson> I'll have a look at that cdimage bug today or tomorrow
<MrChrisDruif> I think you've added it to the Fridge ^_^
<cjwatson> I doubt it, it picks it up from google calendar, iirc
<MrChrisDruif> cjw44 ring any bells?
<cjwatson> if I did so it was years ago and no longer relevant
<MrChrisDruif> I'll send an email to the creator ^_^
<cjwatson> I have no interest in what the fridge says about this meeting, honestly :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: assigned then - thanks :)
<cjwatson> MrChrisDruif: that's enough like my old google account login that I'm nearly certain the fridge picked it up from google calendar
<MrChrisDruif> I'll send an email and see who'll respond ^_^
<slangasek> yep, that's in the google calendar event
<slangasek> MrChrisDruif: but as cjwatson said, we don't usually publish a formal agenda beforehand
<MrChrisDruif> Okay
<slangasek> I could take that out of the event description, I suppose
<slangasek> anything else for today?
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, if it's useless, why include it
<MrChrisDruif> Nope, not for me.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan  4 16:40:47 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-04-16.06.moin.txt
<slangasek> that's it then
<slangasek> thanks, all
<barry> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks slangasek for chairing
<slangasek> MrChrisDruif: so do you have an interest in Ubuntu Foundations, or does it just happen to be the meeting running when you popped in? :)
<cjwatson> bdmurray: damnit, now I have to edit cdimage/make-web-indices again :)
<cjwatson> I must rewrite that in something other than shell
<MrChrisDruif> I rolled into it by "chance" so I'm figuring out what this "Ubuntu Foundations" is all about
<doko> unexpected reboot ...
<cjwatson> much though I love the language it's not 100% suited to generating HTML
<MrChrisDruif> (Note: I don't believe in chance)
<slangasek> doko: we just wrapped - you didn't have anything else for AOB, did you?
<doko> no
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> MrChrisDruif: foundations is largely explained here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, saw the link in the Fridge thingy'
<phillw> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 17:00:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<phillw> hello everyone! please show yourself as present :)
<phillw> #topic attendance
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  attendance
<alourie> phillw: sorry, I'm missing in person today
<alourie> will read logs later
 * charlie-tca seems to be here today
<phillw> alourie: no worries
<phillw> anyone else here?
<stenten> I'm here from Lubuntu QA
<phillw> hmm, seems only lubutnu and xubuntu QA represented?
<charlie-tca> That's all we ever have, isn't it?
<phillw> it'll be a short meeting!
 * charlie-tca don't know for sure, seems to have missed a couple of meetings himself.
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha phillw
<phillw> hi MrChrisDruif
<phillw> I'll give it a couple ofmore minutes to see if any late comers...
<avarisclari> good morning/evening/whateveryourtimezone is
 * MrChrisDruif will only lurk thou
<nuclearbob> howdy
<phillw> #topic actions from last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  actions from last meeting
<phillw> patrickmw: are you here?
<phillw> I'll carry that one forward
<phillw> #action patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins.
<meetingology> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins.
<phillw> #topic blueprints
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  blueprints
<phillw> Are there any people present who can give an update on any of the blue print sub-topics?
<nuclearbob> are subtopics distinct from individual blueprints, or are those the same?
<phillw> nuclearbob: I list the individual blue-prints as sub-toopics (I think, from memory that is how gema structures them).
<avarisclari> i'm a new guy thought i'd start attending meetings and help test, so iunno
<nuclearbob> I can give some updates on other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
<phillw> #subtopic other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
<nuclearbob> and other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing
<nuclearbob> on the qa-regression-testing, autotest-server and autotest-client packages are now available in my ppa
<phillw> nuclearbob: if you'd start with other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
<nuclearbob> sconklin has been evaluating kernel test suites for inclusion into regular testing, and he feels that autotest will be a good fit for future inclusion, so I'm working with him on determining which of their existing tests we want to run
<nuclearbob> I'm also getting the qrt tests setup to run on images for all currently supported series for both x86 and amd64
<nuclearbob> and that's all for that blueprint for this week
<phillw> thanks
<phillw> #subtopic other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing
<nuclearbob> I've been working with patrickmw on that, we've got architecture added now
<nuclearbob> so, for instance, if you visit:
<nuclearbob> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/acer-veriton-01/index.html
<nuclearbob> you can see results for historical and recent tests on i386 and amd64
<phillw> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/acer-veriton-01/index.html
<nuclearbob> that's all I've got for this one, but I remembered I also have an update for other-p-builds-smoke-testing
<phillw> thanks
<phillw> #subtopic other-p-builds-smoke-testing
<nuclearbob> we now generate two reports based on the updated qa bug tagging criteria described here:
<nuclearbob> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/TestingTypeAndBugTracking
<nuclearbob> an open bugs report is here:
<nuclearbob> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qa/qa-open-bugs.html
<nuclearbob> and a closed bugs report is here:
<nuclearbob> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qa/qa-closed-bugs.html
<nuclearbob> I'm working on consolidating bug tasks in the report, since they currently appear separately, adding extra lines that don't really provide much more information
<nuclearbob> I don't have an ETA on that, but I'll update everyone when it's ready
<nuclearbob> and that's all for me this week
<phillw> thanks nuclearbob :)
<phillw> #topic xubuntu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  xubuntu
<phillw> charlie-tca: ...
<charlie-tca> Oh
<charlie-tca> Both desktop images and alternate-i386 are oversize for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> strange quirk I am still verifying...
<charlie-tca> If "Install Xubuntu" is picked from cd menu, the first screen shows languages. Hitting Enter results in the top most language being selected and the rest of the screens are in that language.
<cjwatson> they're oversized for a lot of things
<cjwatson> topmost?  odd
<charlie-tca> Will enter a bug for that one after I get it verified
<cjwatson> should be English
<charlie-tca> It defaults to english, but hitting enter instead of clicking the mouse forces the top language instead
<charlie-tca> That's all from here for today...
<charlie-tca> ..
<phillw> thanks
<phillw> #lubuntu
<phillw> #topic lubuntu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  lubuntu
<stenten> phillw created the Lubuntu QA team as requested. The team can be found on Launchpad at:
<stenten> #link https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-qa
<stenten> I think that's it from me at least :)
<phillw> all seems quiet on the lubuntu front - charlie-tca if you verify your bug, I'll check it with a lubuntu install to see if it across flavours.
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> will let you know
<phillw> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  any other business
<phillw> Has anyone any further points to raise?
<phillw> #topic next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  next chair
<phillw> does anyone wish to chair the next meeting?
<phillw> I'll leave myself there, until I can confirm with gema that she'll be back next week :)
<phillw> hopefully with the end of the festivities things will be back to normal
<phillw> thank you to all who attended.
<phillw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan  4 17:26:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-04-17.00.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> phillw: Thank you for chairing
<nuclearbob> yeah, thanks phillw
<phillw> your're welcome, I'm just a bit rusty!
<phillw> I'll update the wiki
<charlie-tca> phillw: verified using both xubuntu and Ubuntu, virtualbox and hardware. Filing the bug now
<charlie-tca> phillw: bug 911905 filed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911905 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "hitting enter on install screen 1 forces language to top selection" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911905
<micahg> no bugs meeting?
<phillw> charlie-tca: thanks, I'll run 12.04 in VM later
<charlie-tca> Great! all it takes is that first screen after selecting "install ??"
<mcbaine1> When does the Lubuntu meeting actually start ??
<MrChrisDruif> mcbaine1; in about 15 minutes
<mcbaine1> it'sd 8pm utc
 * gilir takes a seat :)
<wxl> wait ]Spectre[ all you want is to secure the data on your usb? i thought you wanted to use it for login
<mcbaine1> plus headphones ofcourse !!
<wxl> oops
<wxl> stupid wrong channel
<MrChrisDruif> ]^_^
<IAmNotThatGuy> lol
<mcbaine1> Yeah, What about THAT guy ??
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; #startmeeting ?
<gilir> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 20:01:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<MrChrisDruif> o/
<mcbaine1> Maybe I'm in the wrong pub ??
<IAmNotThatGuy> o/
<gastly> o/
<jmarsden|work> o/
<phillw> o/
<gilir> :)
<Unit193> \o
<mcbaine1> o/
<mcbaine1> topic ...
<gilir> welcome to the lubuntu team meeting :)
<IAmNotThatGuy> unimix, \o/
<amjjawad> gilir: hi, am I in the right place?
<IAmNotThatGuy> aww Unit193*
<gilir> agenda is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; yes
<amjjawad> ok, good
<amjjawad> so hi everyone
<gilir> we will follow the topic on the agenda, if you have a question, just o/ :)
<IAmNotThatGuy> Okies
<MrChrisDruif> Alrighty
<gilir> #topic Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
<mcbaine1> Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
<gilir> previous logs : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20111221
<]Spectre[> hi
<IAmNotThatGuy> mcbaine1, Let the boss talk ;] and hi ]Spectre[
<gilir> the proposal for the teams was posted, so far, only good feedbacks :)
<hyperair> \o
<]Spectre[> hi IAmNotThatGuy
<amjjawad> gilir: the subteams on that link you sent are the same teams we are talking about?
<gilir> we can probably make it official for the next meeting, just to be sure everyone read it
<MrChrisDruif> Sure
<gilir> amjjawad, yes, this one : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/SubTeams
<amjjawad> gilir: thanks, I already signed up with my launchpad name. But, I couldn't find the communication subteam as I'm also interested to join that subteam
<gilir> amjjawad, probably because it's not created yet
<amjjawad> can I create it?
<gilir> I don't know if other people are interested by this
<phillw> gilir: you can action that to me.
<amjjawad> or it needs an admin?
<gilir> amjjawad, no, you can do it
<phillw> I'll see if I can get Jens to come on board.
<amjjawad> communications means facebook, forum, etc and as u know, I'm good in that
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, Jens
<iceroot> does every of that team has a specific leader for coordination?
<amjjawad> gilir: so can I do it or phillw will do it?
<gilir> iceroot, it's up to each team to name a leader or a coordinator
<gilir> amjjawad, you can do it, ask phillw if you need assistance
<amjjawad> ok
<amjjawad> phillw: what do u think?
<amjjawad> shall i go for it?
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; action amjjawad for it and phillw for backup
<phillw> amjjawad: we'l chat after the meeting
<amjjawad> ok done
<gilir> #action amjjawad to create the Comm. team
<meetingology> ACTION: amjjawad to create the Comm. team
<amjjawad> what about the POC regarding the FAQ pages?
<gilir> #action gilir to officialy launch the teams next week
<meetingology> ACTION: gilir to officialy launch the teams next week
<phillw> amjjawad: that is part of Documentation team.
<MrChrisDruif> So that would be me amjjawad
<amjjawad> which I'm already part of it :) good
<IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, and me too ;P
<amjjawad> but as far as I know, we had a chat that I'll take care of this? so what do I miss?
<gilir> amjjawad, I thik nothing, phillw contacted you as planned, so nothing more to add I think ?
<amjjawad> gilir: I replied the email but I did not get any reply yet!
<amjjawad> idk what is going on .. I think I miss something
<gilir> amjjawad, let's talk about it after the meeting
<phillw> amjjawad: we were busy setting up the doc team, patience my friend!
<amjjawad> never mind guys
<amjjawad> whatever u think it's good for the team
<amjjawad> after all, I'm doing my best for Lubuntu and its users :)
<amjjawad> I don't care about positions and stuff like that :)
<gilir> let's continue with the weekly reports
<gilir> #topic Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Update from QA meeting and team
<gilir> phillw, ^ :)
<IAmNotThatGuy> gilir, Well, I have one Agenda Item I believe ;P
<phillw> the lubuntu-qa team is established (more always welcome). The only outstanding & fresh issue really is bug 911905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911905 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "hitting enter on install screen 1 forces language to top selection" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911905
<phillw> which was raised at the meeting, I'm going to check to see if it also affects lunbuntu after the meeting.
<phillw> thank-you to my sharp eyed opposite number at xubuntu :)
<gilir> :)
<phillw> Also some information as to the reasonings and workings of the automatic testing has been forthcoming.
<gilir> well Alpha 2 is in 1 month, we have time to break other stuff :p
<phillw> That's all from me.
<gilir> thank phillw
<jmarsden|work> phillw: Any progress towards automation of ISO testing?
<phillw> jmarsden|work: yes, an email arrived i  my inbox 15 minutes ago. I'vwe only had chance to send it to the lubuntu-qa team, not read it yet!
<jmarsden|work> I'm ahead of the game :)  OK...
<gilir> #topic Update on IRC OP's team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Update on IRC OP's team
<gilir> Unit193, ^ :)
<Unit193> 1. We have done some access lists updates 2. There is a meeting later this, or next month about the IRC council onboarding 3. And bug #899630 might be of some interest to us
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 899630 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "[Eir] Enable Eir to check other #$buntu channels for banned users and warn" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899630
<MrChrisDruif> Unit193; why didn't you mark it as affecting you?
<wxl> Unit193: since i was confused may i ask if "IRC Support" is going to be a separate team or be a sub-subteam or just be sort of unofficial?
<Unit193> MrChrisDruif: I thought I mmight have, but I follow differently
<Unit193> wxl: Last I knew it was mostly unofficial/you add your name to WhoWeare
<wxl> Unit193: ok, just clarifying.
<gilir> wxl, I think it can be handle by the doc team or the irc team
<gilir> it's between the 2 :)
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; Support is provided by everyone able, right?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, sure, like testing I hope :)
<phillw> I'll add to that, you are not limited to membership of just one team!
<gilir> but yes, maybe the team is not needed in this case
<amjjawad> Testing, IMHO, should be done by all members NO matter what team they belong to
<wxl> gilir: i ask because i am happy to be part of the IRC support but am less inclined to play channel cop. so being a part of IRC OP team doesn't make sense.
<MrChrisDruif> IRC OP's team is just to keep the channel clean and Documentation is for writing down information to reduce questions in the first place
<MrChrisDruif> So I'd say it tends more to Documentation then OP
<wxl> indeed
<Unit193> There was a general support team at one point
<wxl> i kind of like that idea
<jmarsden|work> Maybe we can rename "Documentation Team" to "Documentation and Support Team" ??
<wxl> which would also include the forums which also don't neatly fit into the given subteams
<gilir> hum, sounds like a good idea :)
<phillw> jmarsden|work: Documentation, Wiki, Support, Forum etc..... it's getting to be a long name!
<amjjawad> forums is about communications with others more than just documents
<gilir> teams names can be changed, is up to each team :)
<hobgoblin> only in the cafe is it amjjawad
<amjjawad> let's keep the forum support in different team
<wxl> i'd say we have IRC OPs for policing the channels, Docs/Wiki, and Support (IRC,Forum)
<phillw> If lubuntu wishes, I will set up a 'support' team that any of us from the other teams, or from no team can join?
<wxl> +1 phillw
<mcbaine1> yes plz.
<MrChrisDruif> I like what wxl is saying
<amjjawad> forum = support team = yes
<IAmNotThatGuy> philiw, I think we are using the Lubuntu list in launchpad. I hope that will be enough
<phillw> I take that
<phillw> gilir: I think you can action that to me & I'll get it set up tonight.
<Unit193> How many teams are we even up to
<Unit193> ?
<phillw> ...6..?
<gilir> #action phillw to create the support team
<meetingology> ACTION: phillw to create the support team
<gilir> IMO there is no problem to create many teams for the beginning
<gilir> we can see in the future if there are useful, or if we can merge some
<jmarsden|work> Well, when #teams ~= #activeparticipants, you probably have too many teams :)
<amjjawad> gilir: it is all about being organized, I guess1
<gilir> jmarsden|work, yes :)
<gilir> amjjawad, yes, but also to delegate some specific topics to people
<gilir> ok, last weekly report
<amjjawad> gilir: I like and support the idea of sub-teams because this is very helpful
<IAmNotThatGuy> I would suggest phillw to re-think about creating -support team. I think we can do it after the 12.04 release
<gilir> IAmNotThatGuy, why not ? let's see if it's usefull or not
<amjjawad> +1 gilir
<wxl> i agree
<wxl> everything's mutable
<IAmNotThatGuy> Okay then. If the team is interested to have a separate team, then I have no issues with it =]
<gilir> we talk about it next week, we will see how many teams and how many members we will have already
<wxl> oh and phillw let me know when it's done so i can join ;)
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Update on Wiki / Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MrChrisDruif - Update on Wiki / Docs team
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, nothing really to report right now. The Documentation team only got set up last week and I've been appointed Head last night/this morning.
<MrChrisDruif> One thing I
<MrChrisDruif> 've already spotted is that we've got some duplicate data on our part and some info even needs to move "upstream"
<wxl> i'll bring up an old point, if not just to ponder-- we had discussed at some point having a application-specific documentation with an index of some kind. not sure if this is a question of docs or a question of the website (as it seemed to become in the mailing list), but there's something.
<amjjawad> the whold wiki pages need a closer review IMHO
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: if pages need merging / moving / deleting - just email me
<amjjawad> whole sorry
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; agreed, but I'm not seeing any leader on the Wiki team on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
<iceroot> amjjawad: i could do that because im am completly new to the lubuntu-team and so i can read all the docu and see if important points (imjo) missing
<iceroot> important = infos a complet new member/user needs
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: I don't know what has happened, my mentor phil bull has vanished. I will attempt to re-contact them.
<MrChrisDruif> I think that would be greatly appreciated
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I'm not sure if a leader is all what we really need for that? it's something to do with the team. Now, it's something to do with the sub-team. The idea of having a sub-teams is each and every time will be in charge of specific function or task
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I don't think you need a leader of the whole wiki if you work only on the Lubuntu part
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: from memory cproffitt was heavily involved as well.
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; I thought amjjawad was referring to the entire wiki, not just our part
<amjjawad> I'm talking about Lubuntu now :)
<MrChrisDruif> Ah, got ya
<amjjawad> I care about Lubuntu more at this point to be extra honest
<MrChrisDruif> Alright
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: we also need people to keep an eye on the general wiki for when they go flavour specific, e.g. saying to use gedit when we use leafpad etc.
<amjjawad> Ubuntu does not need a huge support because it gets all what it needs. On the other hand, Lubuntu does need that big time IMHO
<MrChrisDruif> I think a lot of the entire wiki needs rework, but that an other matter. Our section does indeed need a rework I think
<amjjawad> ABOVE ALL IMHO, there must be a link from the main documentation or help pages to Lubuntu Wiki
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; indeed. This can be avoided by refering to "the default editor" with a reference to what that is on the different flavors
<amjjawad> not only Lubuntu but the other variants too
<wxl> phillw: that's a really good point
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, maybe you can try to set up a plan for the section ? Before doing any big move ?
<wxl> +1 MrChrisDruif
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; sure
<wxl> and that is where the ubuntu wiki fails
<phillw> or even the default terminal!
<gilir> I think the first part is trying tio imagine a "map" of the section
<wxl> yes the major problem is that of organizing the information
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; I get the point
<phillw> wiki can generate one.
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; not reliably
<amjjawad> I had and still have a dream to have a strong and solid Wiki like for example Arch Wiki pages but that needs time and effort
<wxl> i tihnk there should be categories e.g. window management, text editing, etc. etc.
<gilir> well a map or a list of pages, it's a wiki, it can be a bit "not organised" as long as the links are good :)
<wxl> amjjawad: on your own such a thing is unlikely but maybe if we work together to develop a plan for how we can make it happen then we can delegate tasks and it can be resolved easily :D
<amjjawad> I know wxl  :) nothing impossible at least for me :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, just think about it, and when you have a clear idea, just submit it during a weekly meeting, ok ? :)
<jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: sensible-editor already does point to "the default editor" so you can have people edit by doing    sensible editor /path/to/file.txt
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: get a game plan together. you know that everyone will roll up their sleeves to help.
<wxl> i will o/
<wxl> :)
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, didn't know about that. Thanks for the suggestion jmarsden|work
<MrChrisDruif> =)
<jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: There is also sensible-browser http://example.com
<gilir> if it's ok, let's move to the next topic
<gilir> #topic IAmNotThatGuy Proposal for maintaining a tutorials page
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: IAmNotThatGuy Proposal for maintaining a tutorials page
<amjjawad> gilir:
<amjjawad> sorry one Q
<amjjawad> before we move
<gilir> yes ?
<amjjawad> what is the difference between https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu and the doc pages?
<MrChrisDruif> jmarsden|work; sensible-editor points to nano
<amjjawad> I see the same contents and info are there in two places?
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; wiki is team related, help is "help" related
<gilir> amjjawad, wiki.ubuntu.com is for the team (and now teams :) coordination
<IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. As we are in a steady growth these days, I'd suggest to have a team to create and maintain tutorials page, either through forums or in lubuntu.net
<wxl> that's not a sensible editor but i digress :D
<gilir> amjjawad, help.ubuntu.com is for support and help
<jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: Yes, that is the default editor in Lubuntu.  You can of course change it to whatever you prefer.
<MrChrisDruif> jmarsden|work; it's the default in normal ubuntu as well
<IAmNotThatGuy> Most of the beginners, entering firstly needs some guidelines after installing. So, I thought of putting forward this proposal
<amjjawad> ok
<amjjawad> why same info here and there?
<amjjawad> why the duplicate?
<phillw> IAmNotThatGuy: I'm guessing we use something similar to the Absolute Beginners stuff, but with a Lubuntu theme?
<gilir> we moved from wiki. to help. sometimes ago, there are many still some dupplicate pages
<gilir> amjjawad, ^
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; that is one of the problems I've spotted. Information is in duplication due to moves and other actions from before my time with the team
<amjjawad> so the new one is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu ???
<IAmNotThatGuy> philipballew, exactly. Plus, if we find something. good, we can share that link so that people can find a path
<IAmNotThatGuy> phillw,* :[
<wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu points to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation
<gilir> amjjawad, no, the new one is help., but we keep some specific pages on wiki.
<wxl> meaning it's got a link that points to it
<wxl> now i'm confused. what's "help?"
<phillw> IAmNotThatGuy: that certainly sounds quite a reasonable task, we are not devoting resources to try and re-invent the wheel.
<amjjawad> Ok, understood, thanks gilir :) but I think we need to fix the duplicate thing
<MrChrisDruif> wxl; help *should* be the point were user can find their information
<phillw> amjjawad: guess what MrChrisDruif brought up earlier?
<amjjawad> wxl: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu
<amjjawad> phillw: I know, thanks!
<IAmNotThatGuy> We can put this task under documentation team to update the tutorials page (which will have links for the tutorials somewhere in the internet) and make it simple for thee newbies
<amjjawad> I'm just stating my opinion, sorry!!!!
<IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, ready? ;]
<MrChrisDruif> I think so, you?
<gilir> IAmNotThatGuy, maybe you can propose some ideas for the tutorials ?
<IAmNotThatGuy> Yep. I will join you in docs team
<gilir> some examples
<wxl> when we say tutorials, do we mean videos/screencasts or just simple howtos?
<IAmNotThatGuy> wxl, yes
<wxl> ok. and do you have a list of topics you want to cover?
<phillw> wxl: they can link to our existing excellent screencasts
<MrChrisDruif> There are currently a number of screencasts available wxl, and if you'd like to make more: feel free
<wxl> phillw: yes but i hear a bit of an implication that this is not sufficient? or is it merely a matter of having them properly indexed/organized, IAmNotThatGuy ?
<amjjawad> I have a plan to write an absloute beginner guide for Lubuntu but will do that first either on the forum or my blog
<IAmNotThatGuy> gilir, some tutorials in common with *buntu family. We are going to maintain those link. For example, tutorial to install multiple Desktop environments, install an application, package an application, etc
<amjjawad> if someone will see it after that and like it, we can convert it to a wiki page
<phillw> but, not everyone has kit / bandwidth for vids, so written doc is essential
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; noted, but for others it might be handy
<IAmNotThatGuy> wxl, yes. a separate tutorials page where we maintain the useful links (I prefer ubuntu site links)
<wxl> k i like
<iceroot> what about a tutorial/screencast for "if you come from windows, this is new/different in lubuntu" maybe the same for gnome/unity/kde
<wxl> +1 iceroot
<iceroot> maybe a topic to discuss in the doc-team
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: a screencast is excellent, however you do all know my views on accessibillity :)
<IAmNotThatGuy> nice idea iceroot
<gilir> let's the doc team work on this :)
<gilir> #topic other topics ?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: other topics ?
<phillw> gilir: sounds like a good idea to me, they're fizzing with ideas... What have I done by creating a team and putting such a group of enthusiastic people together?!!! :D
<gilir> Any other items to discuss today (2 min left) ?
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; do you happen to have the option to come more to IRC?
<iceroot> gilir: i still have a topic.... lts
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I don't like it but if that helps, I'll
<wxl> amjjawad: yeah it's nice to virtually see you ;)
<amjjawad> I do love working in teams but I do have my own style
<MrChrisDruif> It's much easier to discuss things quickly amjjawad
<phillw> +1
<amjjawad> wxl: and MrChrisDruif ok, I'll do my best :)
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks amjjawad ^_^
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: one hour daily is good?
<gilir> iceroot, it was already discussed, the answer is no :)
<MrChrisDruif> I think so, what time?
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I'm +4GMT
<amjjawad> maybe before 20:00??
<iceroot> gilir: ok, then i will stop now with that topic
<amjjawad> it's 1am now
<IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, I am happy with any time. So, no need of considering me ;D
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan  4 21:01:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-04-20.01.moin.txt
<phillw> gilir thanks for chairing.
<MrChrisDruif> I know IAmNotThatGuy
 * IAmNotThatGuy 's time is 2:30 AM ;P
<wxl> ok lete's carry on this conversation elsewhere then
<IAmNotThatGuy> thanks gilir =]
<MrChrisDruif> How about 19:00UTC amjjawad ?
<gilir> thanks for participating :)
<amjjawad> good
<amjjawad> day?
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; thanks for chairing ^_^
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; you said daily?
<MrChrisDruif> I'd have to think about a day amjjawad
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: can we make it 18:00? it would be prefect for me if 18:00
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: sorry, yes, I can do it daily, I guess!!!
<MrChrisDruif> I'd like to host a wiki meeting sometime anyway. When I've put together a plan
<MrChrisDruif> I'm online almost every day amjjawad , so I think that will be okay
<amjjawad> you have my email, MrChrisDruif ?
<amjjawad> I'm always on google talk and facebook and also the forums
<MrChrisDruif> I've seen numerous replies from you, so I think I'll be able to find it
<MrChrisDruif> Could you add me to google then or facebook amjjawad ?
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: Gmail/Google Talk, Facebook, Ubuntu Forum ... whatever u want :)
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: whatever you want :) I use many tabs at once
<MrChrisDruif> I'll make it easy for you by using something you and I already have
<amjjawad> Yeah, like Google Talk?
<MrChrisDruif> Meh, do Facebook if you would
<amjjawad> both mate :)
<amjjawad> my facebook on my gmail email
<amjjawad> so you can find me if you search
<MrChrisDruif> I'm more easily found with google
<MrChrisDruif> Try searching for "Chris Druif"
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: Ok :)
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: my google ID is the same as my username here
<amjjawad> and again, if you want on failbook (this is what I call it :P), you can search by my gmail address
<IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, is it easy to find me? :P
<Unit193> Don't think there is another meeting right now, but best to clear just in case
<MrChrisDruif> Yup, I can almost always find you in one of these channels IAmNotThatGuy
<Unit193> #lubuntu-offtopic
<IAmNotThatGuy> ;P
<amjjawad> IAmNotThatGuy: you are already on my list, right?
<IAmNotThatGuy> Unit193, ok
<Unit193> Thank you
<Unit193> Woah, I thought I closed this already
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-01-05
 * janimo waves
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  5 15:00:52 2012 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * davidm waves
<janimo> hi
 * mrjazzcat waves
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/20120105
<NCommander> who's here?
<mahmoh> hi
<rbasak> o/
 * NCommander fixes the wikipage
<NCommander> sorry, I put the actual page under 2011
<NCommander> ugh A page with the name 'ARM/Meeting/2012/20120105' already exists. Try a different name.
<NCommander> I'll fix it after the meeting
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20120105
 * cmagina waves
<NCommander> so, action items
<NCommander> [topic] rsalveti to kick someone to fix bug 838200
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to kick someone to fix bug 838200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838200 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu Precise) "No network support on Beagle XM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838200
<rsalveti> still in progress, people starting to work just now
<NCommander> k
<NCommander> [topic] rsalveti to track the gles driver status for armhf for the vendors we support
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to track the gles driver status for armhf for the vendors we support
<rsalveti> ti is working on getting the armhf driver available
<NCommander> yay
<rsalveti> other vendors are also aware already
<rsalveti> but at least ti should make it available soon :-)
<NCommander> please keep us appraised of teh armhf gles drivers
<NCommander> ^- as the cycle continues
<rsalveti> sure :-)
<rsalveti> happy to do
<NCommander> [topic] jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel
 * NCommander realizes we have no jcrigby
<NCommander> Moving on
<NCommander> [action] jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel
<meetingology> ACTION: jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel
<NCommander> [action] jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel (c/o)
<meetingology> ACTION: jcrigby to update the mx53 kernel (c/o)
<NCommander> [topic] Stanidng Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Stanidng Items
<NCommander> [topic] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
<GrueMaster> Status page still has workitems and people not associated with arm.
<NCommander> Due to the Christmas shutdown there hasn't been too much progress
<NCommander> Also looks like someone caused one of our specs to pull in the entire release
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to track dependency SNAFU on status tracker and remove non-ARM specs
<meetingology> ACTION: NCommander to track dependency SNAFU on status tracker and remove non-ARM specs
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> DEPWAIT hardware
<NCommander> Not much to say beyond that :-/
<rbasak> Nothing to report from the server end afaik
<GrueMaster> I think part of the problem is everything is now linked to topic-precise-release-lts.
<rbasak> GrueMaster: AIUI, a server install on a panda continues to work?
<GrueMaster> rbasak: I do them almost daily.
<GrueMaster> (Not every load, but netinstall and some testing).
<rbasak> and do they work? :)
<GrueMaster> I am working to automate all the manual tests I ran last cycle.
<ogra_> grmbl, sorry for being late ... connection probs
<GrueMaster> rbasak: I haven't had issues yet.
<rbasak> excellent!
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<GrueMaster> Although almost nothing is automated in a way I can use.
 * ogra_ had a word on specs but missed that bit .... we are supposed to pick the specs we will work on at the sprint in advance
<ogra_> (can probably do that in AOB)
<NCommander> ppisati: ping?
 * NCommander notes we have no cooloney
<ogra_> he mailed
<ogra_> vacation this week
<NCommander> Oh, oops
<ogra_> iirc at least
<janimo> new ac100 uploads for both oneiric and precise
<NCommander> thanks ogra
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo> with mmap fixes, and 3.0 kernel in precise
<ogra_> janimo, tested already ?
<janimo> ogra_, yes
<ogra_> yay
<GrueMaster> Yea, something about doing something with his wife?  (And I thought he was dedicated to us).
<ogra_> well, ftbfs ...
<ogra_> someone needs to do the testbuild of libreoffice
<janimo> no progress here on my side, still have libo to tackle soon
 * NCommander runs through the nearest wall in horror
<ogra_> i guess thats a good task for the sprint
<ogra_> so we can spread the load a bit
<ogra_> instead of having NCommander do it all alone as usual ;)
<janimo> I still haven;t switched my panda to armhf but it is next step on the list
 * NCommander whimpers
<ogra_> the LibO bug seems to have a patch that just hasnt been tested yet
<ogra_> and will need a build
<GrueMaster> janimo: USB drive with two partitions.
<NCommander> I still haven't recovered from the last time I tangled with the beast
<janimo> ogra_, very likely, or needs some newish patch
<ogra_> beyond that we should see that we get the above 200 universe ftbfs fixed
<janimo> GrueMaster, yeah, I just wish we had a live installer to tell it to install to the usb disk :)
 * GrueMaster notes that he has a 5s lag to freenode.
<janimo> doable otherwise just noot fun
<ogra_> i have taken a look over the logs and many are changed in the gthread lib it seems
<GrueMaster> janimo: netinstall.
<ogra_> should be easy to develop a general reciepe for these
<janimo> GrueMaster, hmm will ask you more after the meeting then. Never did one of those, not even on x86
<GrueMaster> kk
<ogra_> janimo, do it at the sprint ;)
<ogra_> surely easier to do face to face
<janimo> yes, makes sense. Cause then I can also buy I bear :)
<ogra_> yay, bears
<janimo> one beer
 * ogra_ likes bears :)
 * GrueMaster doesn't dreak bear.
<NCommander> janimo: I didn't know they sold bears in Romania
<ogra_> they surely do ... more than anywhere else
<janimo> NCommander, well sprint is in Hungary so there may be a small chance
<GrueMaster> bah.  janimo's keyboard issue has affected me too.
<ogra_> nothing from me on the topic anymore
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Hardfloat status (infinity)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Hardfloat status (infinity)
<janimo> GrueMaster, not a keyboard issue unfortunately. Wetware malfunction
<ogra_> didnt we decide to drop that last meeting ?
<ogra_> move on :)
<janimo> wow we drop armhf. nice
<janimo> :P
<ogra_> heh, only the topic
<NCommander> Nice, so much free time now with no hf
 * NCommander ducks
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> failed today ....
<ogra_> thanks to chinese langpacks
<ogra_> if they build tomorrow, i will not assume an asian conspiracy :)
<ogra_> nothing else from me
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
<ogra_> oh, someone should tell kubuntu to drop LibO from their seeds
<NCommander> ScottK: ^
<ogra_> if they want images at some point ;)
<NCommander> ogra_: done
<ogra_> heh
<GrueMaster> I am seeing some issues with the QRT lately that I am tracking down.
<GrueMaster> Some of the tests (mainly the nx tests) are producing random results.  In 1000 executions, 150 fail.
<ogra_> is that something we could help you with during the sprint ?
<NCommander> do we actually support NX support on ARM?
<GrueMaster> I am working with kees, but it may be a kernel thing.
<ogra_> yeah, we might miss a patch or so
<GrueMaster> I was told we do.
<ogra_> iirc the NX patch was big and ugly
<ogra_> and in several chunks
<NCommander> We'll kidnap a kernel engineer and hold him hostiage in our room at the sprint
<ogra_> yeah
 * ogra_ looks at ppisati 
<ogra_> :)
 * NCommander wonders what we can get for ransom
<Riddell> ogra_: hmm?
<GrueMaster> Not sure.  How much does pgraner value his crew?
<ogra_> its not his crew atm, its tims
<NCommander> Regardless, I think its just a matter of beer
<janimo> Let's put beertraps in our sprint room. Kernel team likes beer, they will be lured
<GrueMaster> So...not very much then.
<ogra_> Riddell, your arm images fail regulary, you should temporary remove LibO from your seeds for the arm builds
<janimo> everyone please notice the clever pun above
<ogra_> haha
<Riddell> ogra_: that's a known problem with libreoffice?
<NCommander> janimo: if we put beer taps in our room, admittly, team moral will be very hihg
<NCommander> Team productivity; not so much
<ogra_> Riddell, it doesnt build on armhf atm
<ogra_> NCommander, depends on what you want to produce
<ogra_> ;)
<janimo> but if we reach ballmer peak we may get both
<NCommander> Riddell: you are suggesting that libreoffice doesn't have a problem
<NCommander> ogra_: thanks, I needed to be squicked out this early in the morning
<janimo> that statement is always false
<pgraner> ogra_, still my crew, tim is my henchman
 * NCommander needs brainbleach
<ogra_> for producing reverse eaten lunch beer taps are great :)
<ogra_> pgraner, oh, sorry
<ogra_> move ?
<NCommander> [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
<rsalveti> https://launchpad.net/linaro-dev-platform/+milestone/12.01
<rsalveti> this is the stuff we're planning for this cycle
<rsalveti> 2 thing that should affect ubuntu quite soon
<rsalveti> newer u-boot-linaro and armhf packages for all linaro stuff
<rsalveti> newer u-boot-linaro supports SPL for omap 3
<janimo> rsalveti, is omap3 getting SPL this Ubuntu cycle?
<rsalveti> so we'd need the same transition as we did for omap 4
<janimo> ah, beta me to it :)
<janimo> beat
 * NCommander winces
<rsalveti> janimo: we have it already, done by upstream
<rsalveti> :-)
<janimo> great
<rsalveti> jcrigby is sick today, but he should be back soon
<rsalveti> and will work on pushing this stuff forward
<rsalveti> who should we ping before updating u-boot?
<GrueMaster> me
<NCommander> rsalveti: myself or ogra
<rsalveti> to update the omap3 images to use SPL instead of X-Loader?
<NCommander> or GrueMaster
 * ogra_ is happy to take that one
<rsalveti> great, everybody wants to kill x-loader ;-)
<GrueMaster> I want to make sure it is tested before we kill kittens.
<rsalveti> poor package
<ogra_> what about the mx5 kernel ?
<NCommander> [action] ogra + rsalveti to kill x-loader with fire
<meetingology> ACTION: ogra + rsalveti to kill x-loader with fire
<ogra_> :)
<rsalveti> ogra_: also coming with the other armhf updates we need to push
<rsalveti> we have a blueprint for that now
<ogra_> k
<rsalveti> to make sure we work on it asap
<janimo> rsalveti, is the new uboot packaged and imported in linaro git already?
<NCommander> rsalveti: will you be at budapest?
<janimo> in ppa I mean
<ogra_> NCommander, nobody will
<ogra_> NCommander, as nobody from us will be in sanfrancisco
<NCommander> Oh good, that means I can stay home
<rsalveti> janimo: yes, you can test by simply installing the package available at our overlay
<NCommander> :-)
<janimo> nice
<rsalveti> NCommander: unfortunately, no
<rsalveti> nobody?
<rsalveti> that's bad :-(
<ogra_> well, nobody from linaro
<rsalveti> we should have at least one engineer there
<ogra_> :)
<rsalveti> at connect
<NCommander> rsalveti: I'll take it as a company sponsored mileage run :-P
<ogra_> i was told lool might come though
<NCommander> if no one will be there
<ogra_> but that wasnt sure
<ogra_> or finalized
<rsalveti> yeah, still to be decided I believe
<rsalveti> but don't hope anyone from linaro there
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> but we should try to at least get someone at connect
<rsalveti> from ubuntu arm
<rsalveti> an engineer
<ogra_> for the ubity merge i would really have preferred it
<NCommander> Where's connect? SFO?
<NCommander> (and when?)
<ogra_> *unity
<rsalveti> NCommander: yup
<davidm> NCommander, yes
<NCommander> cool
<janimo> NCommander, not making too many miles off that flight from Portland
<ogra_> NCommander, no travel approval for any of us yet
<rsalveti> ogra_: yup, but travis is kind of away I believe, and things are starting to land
<NCommander> janimo: I'd actually drive instead of fly for that one
<rsalveti> so I expect things available quite soon
<ogra_> yeah
<NCommander> Getting around SFO is annoying without a car
<rsalveti> at least after the discussion we had yesterday
<ogra_> i see stuff happening atm
<rsalveti> yup
<ogra_> hopefully getting finished during next week :)
<rsalveti> hopefully :D
<rsalveti> that's the most important topics from my side
<ogra_> only took us 2 years :P
<janimo> rsalveti, thanks for the updates :)
<ogra_> NCommander, move :)
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<GrueMaster> win32-image-writer has received several much needed updates over the holidays.
<ogra_> awesome
<ogra_> there were plenty people having issues with it
<ogra_> in #pandaboard
<ogra_> somehow it seems to have produced unbootable images
<GrueMaster> Yes, I know.  I get flooded with emails from people that want fixes.
<GrueMaster> It had issues with SD >2G.
<ogra_> ah
 * ogra_ has an AOb topic too ...
<GrueMaster> Wonderful Windows documentation.
<ogra_> please select the specs you will work on durign the sprint and let me know which they are :)
<ogra_> *during
<ogra_> and i have another AOB topic ...
<NCommander> ogra_: mine is completely dependent on HW arriving by time the sprint arrives
<ogra_> the weekly reports please dont go on the wiki anymore but by mail to david
<NCommander> k
<ogra_> NCommander, well, the server team told me there are a bunch of specs they could need help on that arent HW dependent
<ogra_> lets talk to them at the sprint
<ogra_> thats all from my side
<NCommander> I think that's everything
<GrueMaster> And there is plenty of test automation work for anyone (hint hint) to help with.
<NCommander> Anyone else or can I close
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
<ogra_> GrueMaster, yeah, just drop the issues on our laps
<NCommander> ogra_: that's an unfortunate choice of words
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  5 15:40:46 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-05-15.00.moin.txt
 * GrueMaster preps the automation lap dance.
<ogra_> nice, 40min
 * NCommander runs through another wall
 * ogra_ notes to bring a video cam
<beuno> o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> beuno: on time :)
<beuno> that's my middle name
<czajkowski> YokoZar: pleia2 akgraner ?
<akgraner> o/
<YokoZar> o/
<czajkowski> shall we start
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  5 17:02:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> o/
<czajkowski> welcome to the 1st meeting of the new year for the CC
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> rather empty agenda
<czajkowski> Joeb454: ping
<czajkowski> I did email the forums council after the last meeting and reinvite them, which they discussed at their meeting and said Joeb454 would attend
<czajkowski> #topic review actions from last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: review actions from last meeting
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/Current
<czajkowski> YokoZar: how are we on the mailing list issues?
<YokoZar> czajkowski: We've got a list of easy candidates to remove
<YokoZar> Let me dig up the pad link...
<YokoZar> So there were about 20 or so that should be non-controversial closes
<Joeb454> czajkowski: hello
<Joeb454> sorry, still stuck at ork
<Joeb454> work*
<czajkowski> YokoZar: so should we create a ticket to get them closed ?
<YokoZar> http://paste.ubuntu.com/793936/
<czajkowski> Joeb454: great we'll get to you in a few if that's ok
<Joeb454> no problem
<YokoZar> Yeah, everything in that list I think, except ubuntu-mozillateam
<czajkowski> ok I'll get a ticket created for those lists
<sabdfl> hi folks, sorry to be tardy
<czajkowski> if everyone is ok with that
<YokoZar> micahg: any comment on the ubuntu-mozillateam list?
<beuno> czajkowski, yeap, sounds like a good idea
<pleia2> weren't we going to email the list owner before shutting them down?
<pleia2> I know teams like -screencasts have sort of been struggling to stay alive over the years
<czajkowski> pleia2: that was discussed but nobody say it was going to be done or not done, but seeing as many of the oweners are long gone does seem to drag the process out
<YokoZar> czajkowski: in the ticket also mention that they should be marked as (closed) and moved to the bottom of the lists.ubuntu.com page
<czajkowski> YokoZar: nods
<pleia2> "Once inactive lists are identified, the team owner and list admins will be notified, RT ticket submitted"
<pleia2> ^^ from our last meeting
<pleia2> so I thought this would be a process, not just immediate shut down
<pleia2> there isn't really a reason to rush things, email list admins, wait two weeks, email rt
<czajkowski> ok does someone want to contact the admins of those teams
<YokoZar> pleia2: That was before we realized that just about every item in the list hadn't had posts in over a year
<czajkowski> some 2007 and 2008
<YokoZar> pleia2: But I don't have any objections on principle or anything, if you can even figure out who to contact
<pleia2> I can send emails to the people publically listed as admins on each list
<pleia2> that would be "$foo list run by $bar" at the bottom of the info page
<YokoZar> personally I'm inclined to close it even if they reply they want it open since we already have a ton of evidence it doesn't seem to be particularly useful
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: beuno akgraner sabdfl thoughts ?
<akgraner> The kernel one I know can be closed - I asked Pete about it a week or so ago and he said close it
<pleia2> restoring deleted mailman lists is not fun, I wouldn't want to put IS through that, particularly since I don't know why we're rushing anyway (these lists have been dead for a long time)
<pleia2> just give me two weeks ;)
<sabdfl> +1 on the two weeks
<akgraner> +1 on pleia2 suggestion
<sabdfl> then let's nuke 'em
<czajkowski> ok
<sabdfl> no restoration
<beuno> sure
<pleia2> I'll get the emails out tonight
<czajkowski> #action pleia2 to contact the mailing lists and let them know the lists being closed after that as inactive
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to contact the mailing lists and let them know the lists being closed after that as inactive
<czajkowski> and then i'll do the RT
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> akgraner: from the last meeting action item akgraner to blog process for UWN and Fridge
<akgraner> eek - I'll do that today :-)
<czajkowski> ok
<pleia2> since I'm the one sending the emails out I'd be happy to do that
<pleia2> I can include the text I'm sending
<akgraner> pleia2, great then I hand it off to you
<akgraner> with a huge Thank you!
<czajkowski> #action pleia2 to blog process for UWN and Fridge
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to blog process for UWN and Fridge
<YokoZar> There is a technical difference between deleted and closed here, yes?
<czajkowski> ok anything else to review before we move on folks
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> #topic Forums Catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Forums Catch up
<czajkowski> Joeb454: thanks for coming along to this
<czajkowski> Joeb454: is there anyone else from the FC here with you ?
<Joeb454> no problem. I know jdong said he'd try and come along too
<Joeb454> it's generally a bad time for most of the FC though, due to timezones and work I guess
<czajkowski> Joeb454: nods we do appreciate it. This came up at UDS and we're going to talk to all the councils and boards to check in and see how things are doing
<Joeb454> s.fox and bodhi.zazen have said they can't make it because of those reasons too
<czajkowski> so care to tell us about the FC and how things are going , I know I saw a request come in there before xmas from ye guys
<Joeb454> as far as I can tell, things are going ok. I think all of us need to be a little more aware of what responsibilities we have etc, like the mailing list for example (there were 9 requests to do yesterday)
<Joeb454> I appreciate the time of year probably hasn't helped with that though, but it's a discussion point I'll bring up with the rest of the FC at some point in the not-too-distant future
<Joeb454> the upgrade process is ongoing (which is the request you probably saw). We're in touch with Canonical IS now, but there's the old issue of "who's responsible for what" which we're just trying to iron out now
<czajkowski> Joeb454: with regards to the ml moderation, I know personaly it can eat up time, have you thought about adding all of the council on as amdins to help with the load, so it doesnt build up
<Joeb454> I think all the council are admins, they certainly used to be, but I'll double check that one though :)
<sabdfl> is the upgrade particularly difficult?
<czajkowski> It may be one way to stop it falling on one person and just remind people to check it
<sabdfl> i believe there may be a blocking issue on OpenID, or does the newer version already support it?
<sabdfl> i thought we paid for that support to be added?
<Joeb454> sabdfl: I don't know about that. The blocker is OpenID, but we need to find out how many people use it really to determine whether it's something we can break temporarily to get the upgrade done
<Joeb454> I don't want to remove the functionality, but at the same time, the software is getting quite old now, I'm not sure they do security updates for our version anymore
<czajkowski> Joeb454: whats the rt ticket number ?
<Joeb454> czajkowski: for the upgrade, or for openID?
<czajkowski> may as well take both and go talk to the nice folks in IS
<Joeb454> I'm not sure what they are, I'll try and find them now, but if not I'll look later and send them to the CC
<sabdfl> i really don't want to regress
<sabdfl> afaiac we should use openid exclusively
<sabdfl> any ubuntu user on any site should have one and only one password across the whole lot
<sabdfl> this is 2012 :-)
<czajkowski> Joeb454: ok thanks if you poke me I'll chase up on them and then follow up with the CC
<czajkowski> sabdfl: +1
<Joeb454> sabdfl: agreed, I'd like to use the SSO as well
<sabdfl> i'd like to shut down old passwords and provide a mechanism for folk to activate openid
<sabdfl> ok. all the mechanisms we use are open, why not call for help from the community to close that gap
<sabdfl> i'll get the upgrade done as a priority if that's done
<Joeb454> I'm not sure how easy that is, there'd be a lot of legacy users that don't use openID, so we'd need to provide a way to get them migrated to the new system if they suddenly decide to login
<czajkowski> Joeb454: when you say a lot, how many is that roughly?
<czajkowski> or is it possible to know ?
<beuno> AFAIK, it was in the tens of thousands
<czajkowski> :o
<Joeb454> czajkowski: I haven't a clue. It might be possible to do a SQL query on the DB, but I don't have access to that. It'll be a fairly big number though
<Joeb454> I've associated my account with SSO, but don't use it. The previous implementation didn't seem to like keeping people logged in
<czajkowski> that is a bit of a bug
<Joeb454> yeah I think that was what stopped quite a few people using it
<Joeb454> we'd also need to consider the people that are signed into SSO and then visit the forums, we'd need to prompt them to create a profile if they don't already have one
<Joeb454> [17:28] < sabdfl> i'd like to shut down old passwords and provide a mechanism for folk to activate openid
<Joeb454> [17:28] < sabdfl> ok. all the mechanisms we use are open, why not call for help from the
<czajkowski> a lot of kinks need working out
<Joeb454>                   community to close that gap
<Joeb454> [17:29] < sabdfl> i'll get the upgrade done as a priority if that's done
<Joeb454> oops, sorry
<Joeb454> czajkowski: definitely
<czajkowski> Joeb454: and ask sabdfl has said, do you have community folks on the forums willing to help make this happen ?
<Joeb454> I can put out a request for anybody to help get SSO implemented, but then how would we get them access to the test environment/vbulletin code etc.
<czajkowski> I'm sure we could get something worked out, given we get the loco team portal updated by folks
<czajkowski> but the hows and whens I'm unsure of
<czajkowski> Joeb454: any other comments regarding the FC, enough members ?
<Joeb454> other than my initial comments, I don't have any issues. Some members are quieter than others, which is to be expected anyway
<czajkowski> Joeb454: do ye have regular meetings? does everyone take part?
<Joeb454> we're trying to get into more regular meetings again, but the lack of agenda items makes them a little difficult to plan properly. We're making progress with it though
<czajkowski> Joeb454: yes i can understand the no agenda so no meeting, however getting into the habit of turning up and planning things is a good idea tbh.
<czajkowski> shows activeity and in future makes getting folks onto a council easier by showing what ye do and when
<czajkowski> just a thought :)
<Joeb454> definitely. As I said, we're making progress and getting back into it. I don't think we had meetings for a while (certainly before I joined the council anyway)
<czajkowski> ok well thanks for keeping us up to date
<czajkowski> if we cna help in any other way please let us know.
<Joeb454> as for taking part, I think I mentioned above, some more than others, but I have an email floating around in my head that will be making its way to the FC soon anyway (I've been guilty of not doing as much as I feel I should)
<Joeb454> of course :)
<YokoZar> Thanks :)
<czajkowski> I've no more comments or questions
<czajkowski> I do appreciate learning about the FC and the work yer doing
<beuno> Joeb454, yeap, all sounds good, great work
<sabdfl> thank you
<Joeb454> czajkowski: I'll try and get more people next time, but 17:00 UTC isn't the best of times, what with the variety of EU/US timezones we have, they all fall wrong
<czajkowski> Joeb454: thank you
<czajkowski> Joeb454: thats fine maybe next cycle again before we do a catch up
<Joeb454> czajkowski: sounds good :)
<czajkowski> #action Joeb454 to mail czajkowski with RT numbers
<meetingology> ACTION: Joeb454 to mail czajkowski with RT numbers
<Joeb454> thanks all. sabdfl I'll find out about the SSO stuff and email the CC as well
<czajkowski> #action czajkowski follow up with IS re  FC tickets
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski follow up with IS re  FC tickets
<czajkowski> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<sabdfl> thanks Joeb454
<czajkowski> akgraner: beuno Gwaihir pleia2 sabdfl YokoZar any thing else to discuss?
<akgraner> nothing from me
<Gwaihir> nothing in particular from me to
<beuno> nope, I'm good. Still kick-starting my brain this year
<YokoZar> Happy new year folks
<beuno> also, all my machines have been on precise for a month
<czajkowski> going to upgrade in a few mins to Precise
<beuno> which has been super smooth for an alpha state!
<czajkowski> by all accounts it sounds good
<czajkowski> ok ending meeting so
<czajkowski> unless anyone has anything else we need to look at ?
<sabdfl> all clear here
<sabdfl> thank you!
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  5 17:47:41 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-05-17.02.moin.txt
<czajkowski> ta da
<czajkowski> done
<czajkowski> :)
<pleia2> thanks czajkowski
<akgraner> Thanks czajkowski!
<czajkowski> no bother
<beuno> o/
<czajkowski> beuno: you're turn next time
<czajkowski> forgot to add that bit in
<beuno> ack!
<czajkowski> Joeb454: when you're back online give me a pm please.
 * chilicuil away brb
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-01-06
 * skaet waves to wendar
 * wendar waves back
<skaet> :)
 * stgraber waves (might disappear at some point but highvoltage should be there)
<wendar> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan  6 16:00:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jibel> hi o/
<skaet> hi all, and happy new year
<skaet> I have to disappear part way through so wendar will be chairing.
<xliu> you tooï¼
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-01-06
<skaet> Individual team status links will be added to it from:
<skaet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/thread.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Schedule is at:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet> #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:
<skaet> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> â¢ 2012/01/09 - DebianImportFreeze
<skaet> â¢ 2012/02/02 - Alpha 2
<skaet> â¢ 2012/02/16 - FeatureFreeze
<skaet> â¢ 2012/02/16 - 10.04.4
<skaet> .
<skaet> ***WORKITEMS:***   Please help get us back under the trend line!
<skaet> Over the holidays, we've drifted significantly above it on the overall.
<skaet> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/
<skaet> There are now  2541 work items (up from 2319 last month, originally 2084 on 2011/11/25), so figuring out now what is not going to happen in the next 6 weeks, and indicating blocked and postponed, would be much appreciated.
<skaet> I'll be following up with individual teams on some of the more concerning ones next week.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Also, I'll have to leave for the airport part way through, so wendar will be chairing the rest of the meeting.   Questions?
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around for any question?
<skaet> wendar,  can you start us into the round table now.  :)
<wendar> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris or brendand
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris or brendand
<mlegris> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000650.html
<mlegris> updated a1 testing, no major issues found
<mlegris> any questions?
 * skaet glad to hear no major issues found.  :)
<mlegris> \o/
<mlegris> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000660.html
<skaet> jibel, what does the overall health of the daily images look like?
<jibel> in term of installability/upgradability Precise is good.
<jibel> bug in pygobject that crashed ubiquity fixed by pitti
<jibel> results of daily smoke testing https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/view/Daily/?
<jibel> we started automated package testing with software-center
<jibel> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/precise-softwarecenter-amd64/16/testReport/
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel. :)
<skaet> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] Security team Q&A - mdeslaur
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team Q&A - mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> hi!
<mdeslaur> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000648.html
<mdeslaur> we've been doing reactive work mostly
<mdeslaur> so blueprints haven't been work on so much
<mdeslaur> but next week, we intend on dedicating the whole sprint to doing work items
<mdeslaur> that's it!
<mdeslaur> ..
<skaet> Thanks mdeslaur.  :)
<wendar> [TOPIC] Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000653.html
<ogasawara> I forgot to mention that now that we've rebased to v3.2 final, we'll
<ogasawara> continue to pull in v3.2.x stable updates through Kernel Freeze.
<ogasawara> Everything else I covered in my email.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000656.html
<cjwatson> Work item status: fairly grim.  Unfortunately I won't be at the rally so relying on slangasek to sort things out with people there :-)
<cjwatson> (I suspect there's still a fair amount of low-hanging fruit, though)
<cjwatson> Not much else, hope people had a good Christmas etc.
<cjwatson> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] Server team Q&A - Daviey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team Q&A - Daviey
<Daviey> Hello!
<Daviey> Sorry, I am currently in a call.. sorry for the delay
<Daviey> Any questions for me?
<wendar> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000655.html
<Daviey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000655.html
<Daviey> thaks wendar :)
<Daviey> Any bugs not on http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html, which people think should be?
 * skaet needs to study and cross corellate... after the meeting.
<skaet> ..?
<Daviey> ..
<Daviey> thanks :)
<wendar> [TOPIC] ARM team Q&A-  ogra_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team Q&A-  ogra_
<ogra_> oh, me !
<ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000662.html
<ogra_> beyond that i have to add that merging of the GLES patches into nux, compiz and unity has started and we hope that it will work by end of the sprint
<ogra_> but i guess dbarth_ can elaborate on that later :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_ can you look at marking those items blocked by lack of hardware, as blocked next week?
<ogra_> skaet, i think NCommander did already, but i'll check
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_
<skaet> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] Linaro team Q&A - fabo or rsalveti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro team Q&A - fabo or rsalveti
<fabo> hi
<fabo> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000658.html
<fabo> hope to have our armhf images this month
<fabo> ..
<dbarth_> hi
<dbarth_> (oops too early)
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team Q&A -  joshuahoover
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team Q&A -  joshuahoover
<wendar> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000649.html
<wendar> (he's not in channel)
<wendar> [TOPIC] Desktop Team Q&A  - pitti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team Q&A  - pitti
<pitti> my blurb is at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000654.html
<pitti> the third bug in that list got fixed today
<pitti> echoing cjwatson's sentiment about OMG work item overflow, target for next week
<pitti> any questions?
<pitti> ..
<pitti> (sorry for the lag)
<cjwatson> one of my work items has taken at least a week so far :-(
<pitti> for me, there's always bugs and mail getting in the way..
<cjwatson> yep, death by reactivity
<ogra_> stop answering, that will teach them !
<ogra_> :)
<highvoltage> :)
 * wendar finds that tempting :)
<wendar> [TOPIC] DX Team Q&A - dbarth
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: DX Team Q&A - dbarth
<dbarth_> summary for the week at the usual: wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> since then the SRU made its way into the ubuntu-desktop archive for testing
<dbarth_> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] Desktop Systems Team  Q&A - olli
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Systems Team  Q&A - olli
<wendar> (also not in channel)
<wendar> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell
<Riddell> hi
<Riddell> nothing to add to the report
<Riddell> ..
<wendar> any questions on Kubuntu?
<wendar> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage
<highvoltage> Howdy! Happy new year from the Edubuntu team!
<highvoltage> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000651.html
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> Any questions? fire away!
<highvoltage> ah stgraber made it :)
<highvoltage> ..
<tumbleweed> glad to see someone doing the wxwidgets merge :)
<stgraber> yeah, LOTS of fun...
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: it practically took stgraber's whole day
 * tumbleweed started it one night, and changed my mind
<ogra_> did you run out of tranquilizers ?
<stgraber> I "think" my 10th build is pretty good, just need to finish diffing the binary packages to make sure I didn't miss anything
<stgraber> number 9 worked fine even though it contained a bunch of gcc fatal error and was missing files... yeah for proper error checking
<stgraber> oh, and debian/rules is over a thousand lines long :)
<ogra_> just make sure it works on armhf :)
<stgraber> anyway, once merged we should be down to just a build option change, an extra build-dep and a patch to maintain on top of Debian, so that'll be your standard 5 minutes merge
<tumbleweed> great
<stgraber> ok, I guess that's enough complaining about wxwidgets2.8 :)
<stgraber> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick or charlie-tca
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick or charlie-tca
<wendar> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-work
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-work
<wendar> (not in channel)
<wendar> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<gilir> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000661.html
<gilir> nothing to add :)
<gilir> ..
<wendar> [TOPIC] MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney
<tumbleweed> hi, nothing here really. Happy new year everyone
<tumbleweed> ..
<wendar> And, that's the last one.
<wendar> [TOPIC] Any other business, comments,  questions?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business, comments,  questions?
<Daviey> not ehre!
<wendar> Alrighty. For those who are rallied next week, Kate's reserved a room so you can gather in person for the release meeting.
<cjwatson> Will there be videoconferencing to that (G+)?
<wendar> Thanks mlegris, jibel, mdeslaur, ogasawara, cjwatson, Daviey, ogra_, fabo, pitti, dbarth, Riddell, highvoltage, stgraber, gilir, and tumbleweed!
<ogra_> thanks wendar !
<wendar> And happy new year to all!
<tumbleweed> w00t for 45min meeting!
<ogra_> \o/
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<pitti> thanks all, have a nice weekend!
<wendar> cjwatson: We can probably set it up, I'll check with skaet.
<ogra_> tumbleweed, well, taget was 30min ... but we're getting closer :)
<jibel> thanks wendar  !
<cjwatson> that'd be good
<wendar> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jan  6 16:44:50 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-06-16.00.moin.txt
<mcbaine1> http://www.nature.nps.gov/air/WebCams/parks/sekicam/sekilargerimage.cfm
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-01-07
<oscalation> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-01-08
<Cees> \o/ http://nos.nl/artikel/329072-wordfeud-doet-het-weer.html
<Cees> sry, wrong channel
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-12-31
<ols3> /?
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-01-01
<joshuahoover> Happy New Year!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-01-02
 * slangasek waves
<infinity> o/
<slangasek> happy new year :)
<infinity> Can't prove it!
<slangasek> ...
<infinity> I mean, happy new year to you too!
<infinity> Yes, that one.
<cjwatson> which bit of the statement were you disputing?
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> anyone else around today?  barry, doko?
 * barry waves
<infinity> xnox is hiding around here somewhere too.
<xnox> howdy =)
 * infinity pokes xnox with a stick.
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan  2 16:08:25 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<doko> back from skiing ...
<infinity> doko: Do you still have legs?
<slangasek> not sure we need a lightning round to talk about what we got for Christmas
<doko> still somehow working, couldn't resist the powder however ...
<slangasek> well, what the heck; we can still do a lightning round to talk about what we're working on this week :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stokachu cjwatson doko barry slangasek ev stgraber bdmurray jodh ogra xnox
 * xnox win
<slangasek> stokachu: around?
<slangasek> cjwatson: your turn!
<cjwatson> Spent some time over the Christmas break poking at removing nested functions from GRUB, which will no doubt make the security team happy if I manage to land it.  Planning to spend a bit more time pushing that up the hill this week, along with switching our GRUB packaging to GCC 4.7.
<cjwatson> Also continuing work on britney/autopkgtest and preparing for the 12.04.2 point release.
<cjwatson> (We need to finish off the SB landings ...)
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> indeed we do :/
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> looked at the cross buildability for buildd chroots, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrossBuilding/BuilddChroot
<doko> todo for the next week: evaluating ftbfs for the test rebuilds, cross build fixes
<doko> ..
<infinity> I'll get the eglibc parts of that fixed along with the 2.17 upload.
<slangasek> doko: I was going to ask, I notice that dbus says 'requires python-dbus' but there's no comment on why dbus-python doesn't build
<doko> circular b-d
<slangasek> ok
 * xnox fixed e2fsprogs & commented about shadow.
 * barry was quasi-blissfully semi-offline for the xmas break.  todo: finish up oneconf, and then the usual.  done.
<slangasek> so I accomplished none of the things I had put on my list to work on over break, because instead I've wound up prepping for a surprise trip to China
<xnox> \0/ awesome =)
<slangasek> which is from 5-9 Jan
<doko> cjwatson, should we drop versioned b-d's where the package builds otherwise?
<cjwatson> doko: example?
<doko> cjwatson, perl
<infinity> doko: I really think we need better ways to mangle build-deps in the build process.
<barry> slangasek: hopefully for fun!
<doko> cjwatson, or eglibc
<infinity> doko: Cause versioned build-deps are often correct and sane (especially for people attempting to backport)
<cjwatson> yeah, what infinity said, we should fix that in sbuild
<slangasek> I'll also be off this Friday as a swap day; and I won't have any of my keys with me (or even my laptop) so don't expect me to be doing any other work those days :)
<slangasek> barry: it's work :)
<barry> ah well
<cjwatson> and I'd like to keep those around as good test cases
<doko> cjwatson, hmm, but that won't work for dpkg-buildpackage?
<infinity> Yeah, the cross-fu almost needs to be in dpkg-checkbuilddeps.
<cjwatson> sbuild and dpkg-checkbuilddeps, yes
 * xnox is next, I guess.....
<infinity> (Though sbuild also needs to know about it)
<slangasek> so other than trying to get everything in order for that trip & associated presentations next week, I still need to get the gnu-efi regression sorted out to follow through on the SB updates
<cjwatson> I don't see why we can't do it for both - I just haven't got round to it yet
<slangasek> and that's probably about as much as you can expect me to get done this week
<slangasek> ..
<bdmurray> xnox: I'm next but waiting for a done
<cjwatson> seeing as we only really came up with the general mangling idea in Dec
<xnox> bdmurray: hello =) sorry, I missread holiday calendar.
<bdmurray> I neglected sending an update on the 19th so have some stuff to report from before the break.
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for bug 1071388
<bdmurray> uploaded whoopsie to quantal-proposed fixing bug 1084311
<bdmurray> uploaded SRU fix for bug 1066347
<bdmurray> arsenal merge proposal regarding collect-bug-data and inactive users
<ubottu> bug 1071388 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "UnicodeDecodeError in askYesNoQuestion of DistUpgradeViewText.py" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071388
<ubottu> bug 1084311 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Quantal) "modifies .uploaded time every time whoopsie starts" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1084311
<ubottu> bug 1066347 in apt-clone (Ubuntu Precise) ""Reinstall Ubuntu" failed - apt-clone crashes with: KeyError: "filename './etc/apt/sources.list' not found" line 1886 in getmember in tarfile.py" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066347
<bdmurray> reported daisy bug 1090583 regarding failure to upload core dump
<bdmurray> worked on source package view for errors.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> worked on team view for errors.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> patch piloted
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 936870
<ubottu> bug 1090583 in Daisy "unable to submit a touchegg core dump to daisy" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1090583
<ubottu> bug 936870 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Precise) "unattended upgrade failing due to incorrectly detected conffile prompt due to "newconffile" line" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936870
<bdmurray> this week I'll be finishing up the source package view and team view at errors.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> â  done â
<xnox> * fixed a couple FTBFS (from archive, rebuild, cross).
<xnox> * In-progress finding what's causing partman hangs on some systems
<xnox> * Upstart - overrides from any directory: implemented, existing tests
<xnox>   pass, now fixing memleaks & writing tests for new functionality.
<xnox> that's it from christmas break.
<xnox> - done -
<slangasek> xnox: is there a bug ref for these partman hangs?
<xnox> bug 1080701 and others referenced in it
<ubottu> bug 1080701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "After 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen, raring installation hangs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080701
<slangasek> any other questions on the above?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything needing our attention this week?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<doko> xnox, could you update the wiki page about e2fsprogs?
<xnox> doko: I did =)
<slangasek> hmm, am I still connected? :)
<bdmurray> slangasek: no, not this week
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<infinity> Hinted at it above, but since I don't do the lightning round anymore, should mention it harder: I plan to upload eglibc 2.17 this week.
<slangasek> xnox: maybe you should change e2fsprogs from red to green though :)
<slangasek> infinity: nice
<xnox> slangasek: well. I want to wait for green light from cjwatson's cloud cross-builder.
<slangasek> ok
<xnox> doko: new shadow, will add ustr & libsemanage to min. chroot.
<xnox> which I noted to fix cross-build for.
<cjwatson> anyone fancy sitting on the security team's head 'til they make a decision about libsemanage? :)
<xnox> cjwatson: they did "fix commit" it.
<xnox> on the bug.
<cjwatson> ah yes
<cjwatson> bug 1077484
<ubottu> bug 1077484 in shadow (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libsemanage (shadow's rdep to continue SELinux support in shadow)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077484
 * infinity does some promotion dances.
<xnox> AOB: new shadow upstream release about to hit raring =)
<cjwatson> bdmurray: could you subscribe foundations-bugs to libsemanage?
<xnox> and ustr?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: and ustr as well
<cjwatson> snap :)
<xnox> =))))))
<bdmurray> cjwatson: will do
<slangasek> ok, if there's nothing else, we can all go back to watching the countdown on www.ubuntu.com now
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan  2 16:35:13 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-02-16.08.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-02-16.08.html
<xnox> it's the final countdown....
<xnox> (btw the circles are growing bigger)
<xnox> thanks.
<slangasek> thanks everyone :)
<CommieDore> Is jono worried about frivolous lawsuit with the Ubuntu Phone from Companies that we won't name?
<popey> CommieDore: you should probably be in #ubuntu-discuss
<jono> CommieDore, naa :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-01-03
<hk_> guys do i need to have ubuntu to build apps for it?
<hk_> do i need to have ubuntu to build apps for it?
<asante002> h
<asante002> j
<ashams> Hey AhmedAbouZaid, best wishes
<AhmedAbouZaid> Thanks ^^
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<annod> Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ
<asultan> and peace be with you
<blablabla> w 3alekom Al salam w ra7mat Allah w barakato
<Samar_> Peace be upon you
<cjohnston> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  3 22:00:59 2013 UTC.  The chair is cjohnston. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjohnston> #chair cjohnston
<meetingology> Current chairs: cjohnston
<cjohnston> #voters cjohnston hggdh cyphermox PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes cjohnston cyphermox hggdh
<cjohnston> #topic Ubuntu  Membership Review Board - 3 January 2013
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu  Membership Review Board - 3 January 2013
<cjohnston> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for 3 January 2013. The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<cjohnston> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<cjohnston> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<cjohnston> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<cjohnston> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<cjohnston> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cjohnston> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<cjohnston> I don't see the first applicant in here.. so I will go on to the second
<cjohnston> Would someone mind checking to see if the first is online please?
<hggdh> Abdobonna: there?
<cjohnston> #topic AhmedâAbouâZaid 's membership application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AhmedâAbouâZaid 's membership application
<cjohnston> AhmedAbouZaid: please introduce yourself
<AhmedAbouZaid> Thanks cjohnston : )
<AhmedAbouZaid> My name is Ahmed, I'm 23 years old, I live in Cairo.
<AhmedAbouZaid> fully Ubuntu user since 2008
<AhmedAbouZaid> I love and believe in Free/Open source  and Ubuntu  :)
<cjohnston> AhmedAbouZaid: I don't see anything documented on your wiki page for the last year. What happened?
<cjohnston> #voters iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes cjohnston cyphermox hggdh iulian
<ashams> may I support AhmedAbouZaid ?
<AhmedAbouZaid> cjohnston: I was to perform compulsory military service in Egypt.
<AhmedAbouZaid> cjohnston: It's about 12 months.
<hggdh> ah
<AhmedAbouZaid> cjohnston: So my activity was very limited this year : )
<cjohnston> understandable in that case
<PabloRubianes> AhmedAbouZaid, nice work with the book, are you already working on the updated version?
<AhmedAbouZaid> My wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AhmedAbouZaid
<cyphermox> AhmedAbouZaid: I see you mention bugs reporting on your wiki page, but I can't see any on your launchpad page. Do you report your bugs elsewhere?
<AhmedAbouZaid> PabloRubianes: Yes, I'm working now on a second version of it.
<iulian> AhmedAbouZaid: How do I download the book?
<iulian> Or rather, could you please give me the direct link?
<AhmedAbouZaid> cyphermox: Unfortunately most of the reports were not through launchpad.
<AhmedAbouZaid> iulian: One moment please.
<iulian> I think I got it.
<iulian> You could still paste the link here just for the record.
<AhmedAbouZaid> Book site: http://www.simplyubuntu.com/
<AhmedAbouZaid> Download link: http://download.simplyubuntu.com/getit.php
<cyphermox> AhmedAbouZaid: that's what I thought. Is it due to reporting the bugs in English?
<hggdh> AhmedAbouZaid: thank you for publishing the book with (at least) an option for free download. I/we appreciate it
<AhmedAbouZaid> cyphermox: I made bug reports either in English and Arabic.
<cyphermox> yeah it's really nice :)
<cyphermox> ok
<cjohnston> #subtopic Voting on AhmedâAbouâZaid 's membership application
<cjohnston> #vote Voting on AhmedâAbouâZaid 's membership application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Voting on AhmedâAbouâZaid 's membership application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<Samar_> +1
<iulian> +0 - was still reviewing.
<meetingology> +0 - was still reviewing. received from iulian
<asultan> :)
<AhmedAbouZaid> hggdh: Thanks : )
<cjohnston> Samar_: voting is limited to those on the board only.
<AhmedAbouZaid> hggdh: And it's also licensed under CC: By-Sa 3.0 license : )
<hggdh> Samar_: heh, only members of the RMB can vote ;-)
<Samar_> Got it! :)
<hggdh> AhmedAbouZaid: ooohhh, even better! Thank you very much!
<cjohnston> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Voting on AhmedâAbouâZaid 's membership application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cjohnston> Congrats AhmedAbouZaid
<hggdh> AhmedAbouZaid: welcome in!
<ashams> AhmedAbouZaid, Congrats :D
<cyphermox> Congrats AhmedAbouZaid
<PabloRubianes> congrats AhmedAbouZaid
<cjohnston> With that being said, since the other applicant still hasn't arrived I'm going to end the meeting.
<PabloRubianes> +1 cjohnston
<hggdh> yep
<cjohnston> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  3 22:19:31 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-03-22.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-03-22.00.html
<cjohnston> Thanks all
<AhmedAbouZaid> Thank You very much. It's indeed a pleasure ^_^
<hggdh> AhmedAbouZaid: the pleasure is ours
<asultan> AhmedAbouZaid gratz mate :)
<asultan> @AhmedAbouZaid gratz mate :)
<meetingology> asultan: Error: "AhmedAbouZaid" is not a valid command.
<Samar_> Congratulations Ahmed :)
<blablabla> congratulations ^^
<AhmedAbouZaid> Thank you all ^_^
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-01-04
<tgm4883> well we should probably get started
<tgm4883> !help
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<tgm4883> hmm
<tgm4883> !meeting
<ubottu> Team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting - See Â« /msg ubottu logs Â» for transcripts.
<tgm4883> thanks ubottu, you are so helpful
<TheLordOfTime> tgm4883, Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology if you're looking for it...
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<tgm4883> TheLordOfTime, exactly what I'm looking for, thanks
<TheLordOfTime> tgm4883, also, /topic
<TheLordOfTime> :P
 * TheLordOfTime returns to poking server packages
<tgm4883> #startmeeting Ubuntu TV weekly meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan  4 18:05:07 2013 UTC.  The chair is tgm4883. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu TV weekly meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<tgm4883> The agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Meetings
<tgm4883> Note that there is nothing on the agenda
<CrestedNewt> is BobWeaver in? I don't see him
<tgm4883> we pinged him, but I didn't see him around
<tgm4883> Since there is nothing on the agenda, I'll open the floor to anyone that has anything to say and/or questions or comments
<tgm4883> #topic Open Floor
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu TV weekly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Open Floor
<mhall119> so, given the holidays since our last meeting, there probably isn't anything new to discuss
<tgm4883> mhall119, my guess as well
<CrestedNewt> Do we know the current status of development?
<CrestedNewt> ie - where are we?
<mhall119> except, well, omg! Phone!
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, I'm not aware of the current status of the non-mythtv parts
<CrestedNewt> Ubuntu Phone is to be discussed later :D
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: I know bobweaver has been experimenting with different things on the old unity2d code
<mhall119> I don't know if anything new has been done on the unity 3d port
<CrestedNewt> OK, just so that I get this right .....
<mhall119> tgm4883: how is the MythTV scope work going?
<CrestedNewt> Bobweaver is working on the old 2D platform
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: he's been working on both
<CrestedNewt> and he is hoping to have a stable platform with which to move forwards?
<mhall119> he's been porting to Unity 3d, but still using the 2d code for prototyping
<tgm4883> The main scope is great. Playback of content works nicely and looks good
<tgm4883> the guide data parts though....
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: that's the goal, yes
<CrestedNewt> mhall119 - ok that's good news
<mhall119> tgm4883: the main scopes searches already recorded stuff?
<tgm4883> Currently I'm seeing if upstream will add some stuff to the API so I don't have to do a query on each show just to get description
<tgm4883> mhall119, yes, that part works great
<mhall119> tgm4883: you can always just use the title in the search results, and only query for the description if they open it in a preview
<tgm4883> I need to move the servicesapi.py file to it's own package though so I can separate the guide and playback scopes
<tgm4883> mhall119, yea that is what I have it doing now, but then you can only search title/subtitle
<mhall119> tgm4883: cool
<tgm4883> But I'm not adding description back in unless I can get it to a reasonable run time
<mhall119> tgm4883: maybe you can put a bit in the next blog post about your progress and how people can help you with it
<tgm4883> #action tgm4883
<meetingology> ACTION: tgm4883
<mhall119> any screenshot of the TV UI, even the old 2d one, showing results from MythTV would cause some excitement too
<tgm4883> yea I need to work with bobweaver to get a TV UI setup for that
<tgm4883> or have him do a couple screenshots
<mhall119> Any ideas on what we can do with the new phone & SDK to capitalize on some of that buzz for the TV?
 * tgm4883 shrugs
<tgm4883> I haven't looked at phone much
<mhall119> it's pretty cool, and the SDK is something that people should use to write TV apps too
<mhall119> I'll talk to bobweaver about maybe getting some screenshots of the example app running on the TV UI, see if it's worth talking about
<tgm4883> it's QML, so bobweaver should be happy
<CrestedNewt> OK, in the UK atm there is a push on http://www.youview.com/features/ and http://go.sky.com/vod/page/tvListing.do
<mhall119> yeah, he's already been in #ubuntu-phone
<CrestedNewt> the sky solution allows video on the move .... but it requires silverlight
<mhall119> tgm4883: your guide scope, is that using MythTV as it's backend?
<tgm4883> mhall119, yes
<mhall119> and can MythTV use the sources CrestedNewt just mentioned?
<tgm4883> mhall119, err, it's not like that
<tgm4883> mhall119, so you can think of mythtv similar to how we're thinking about ubuntu tv (or vice versa). Mythtv has a backend and a frontend (in the case of Ubuntu TV, we're basically just making a UTV a frontend)
<tgm4883> any online sources and such that mythtv could use, would be mythtv frontend plugins
<tgm4883> which don't make sense here, we'd just make them unity scopes
<tgm4883> unless i'm not understanding what these things are
<mhall119> oh, ok, so tv guides aren't being stored in the backend?
<CrestedNewt> both of the sites I posted are 'historical' VOD services.... I was just thinking about the tie in with ubuntu_phone
<tgm4883> yes, the tv guide is stored in the backend, but this looks to be more than just a tv guide
<mhall119> oh, ok
<CrestedNewt> no probs - I just thought that I would clear that up :D
<mhall119> I was mostly interested in just the tv guide data, if MythTV can support multiple sources, then we only need a single source to get it out of MythTV
<mhall119> makes our job easier that way
<tgm4883> mhall119, you should get guide data from the same place that you are scheduling recordings
<tgm4883> so in this case, mythtv
<tgm4883> mythtv supports schedules direct and XMLTV I think
<mhall119> ok
<tgm4883> well, and EPG
<tgm4883> but that sucks in the US
<tgm4883> so with mythtv, you can have multiple sources, and you might have a different set of guide data for each source (which is why I say tie the two together)
<tgm4883> from the UTV POV, the only source if mythtv (and mythtv figures out all the other important stuff)
<mhall119> sounds good to me
<tgm4883> yea the more I look at youview, the more it sounds like it should be a scope
<CrestedNewt> OK, blue sky stuff here for future discussion but I think that it needs to be noted somewhere..... Sky offer this planner http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide#/day/0 and you can then decide to record from this service as well as getting more programme information. The record function is only available if you are a Sky subscriber. DO NOTHING WITH THIS YET but views for later on would be good.
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: where does that record it to? your local hardware, or something on their network?
<CrestedNewt> sends a signal through satellite to your box which has a viewing card. These are linked to your username
<mhall119> ah, ok
<tgm4883> looks like there is a sky DVR box too
<tgm4883> with storage
<CrestedNewt> yes - the top of range box has 1080i output and a 1 TB HDD
<mhall119> alright, any other topics to discuss?
<tgm4883> I've got none
<CrestedNewt> I have none - other than I need to get something to document :D
<mhall119> alright, I'll try and get some information from Canonical's side about how the new Phone stuff might be impacting the TV, and vice-versa, to see how it all should fit together
<mhall119> and we'll get with bobweaver when he's online for some screenshots and stuff
<tgm4883> sounds good
<CrestedNewt> mhall119 - good man!!
<mhall119> alright, thanks guys!
<tgm4883> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jan  4 18:36:48 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-04-18.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-04-18.05.html
<Random_> hej hej
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-01-02
<s-fox> Hello svij :)
<svij> hi s-fox :)
 * toddy waves svij 
<svij> toddy: :D
<s-fox> svij: Just waiting for more of the board to make their presence known :)
<svij> ok
<chilicuil> #startmeeting Ubuntu-Membership-Board January 2th, 2014 at 22:00:00 UTC meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  2 22:07:41 2014 UTC.  The chair is chilicuil. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu-Membership-Board January 2th, 2014 at 22:00:00 UTC meeting | Current topic:
<chilicuil> #meetingtopic svij approval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | svij approval Meeting | Current topic:
<chilicuil> Hi Sujeevan Vijayakumaran, welcome to the Ubuntu Membership meeting, please introduce yourself
<s-fox> ^ svij :)
<svij> Hi, my name is Sujeevan Vijayakumaran, raised up and living in Germany and I'm also a student and a software developer. I'm the current project-lead of the official german support site ubuntuusers.de (with Fuchs ;) ) and I'm also co-organizing this and last years ubucon. :)
<svij> (hope this is enough ;))
<chilicuil> svij: the UMB members may take a time to reply, we're reading your application, you've a nice couple of testimonials =)
<svij> chilicuil: thanks!
<toddy> :)
<chilicuil> #voters IdleOne s-fox cjohnston cyphermox chilicuil
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne chilicuil cjohnston cyphermox s-fox
<chilicuil> alright, does anyone has any question?
<IdleOne> think we are ready to vote, unless there is anyone here who would like to cheer for svij
<IdleOne> now is the time
<Fuchs> I of course cheer
<Fuchs> but I guess that would be clear, given my testimonial :)
<chilicuil> #vote svij approval
<meetingology> Please vote on: svij approval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<s-fox> Sorry, was looking at the website. I was impressed :)
<chilicuil> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from chilicuil
<chilicuil> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: svij approval
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congrats svij and welcome
<svij> yay, thanks :)
<s-fox> Congratulations :)
<chilicuil> svij: I would like to see more of the UWN de, awesome work =)
<toddy> Congrats svij :)
<chilicuil> so, I think, we're done, happy new year to everyone =D
<svij> thanks IdleOne, chilicuil, s-fox and toddy
<chilicuil> #endmeeting
<Fuchs> Congratulations indeed, and a nice day to you all :)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  2 22:17:28 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-02-22.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-02-22.07.html
<IdleOne> Thank you.
<s-fox> Thank you for chairing chilicuil :)
<chilicuil> np s-fox ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-01-05
<elfy> any other Forum Council people around
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-01-04
<howefield> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jan  4 18:05:51 2015 UTC.  The chair is howefield. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<howefield> #chair elfy bapoumba cariboo907
<meetingology> Current chairs: bapoumba cariboo907 elfy howefield
<elfy> o/
<howefield> \o
<cariboo907> o/
<bapoumba> -o/
<howefield> evening all and Happy New Year, here's to a good one for us all.
<cariboo907> same to you howefield
<bapoumba> Happy New Year :)
<howefield> no items on the agenda bar the fixed.
<elfy> :)
<howefield> unless anyone has anything to speak about ?
<elfy> nope - not me
<bapoumba> me neither
<cariboo907> not me either
<bapoumba> we are all doing fine it seems :)
<howefield> ok, I'll just thank bapoumba and elfy for the Supermods blog post for the record :)
<bapoumba> is it the place for news that other may want to read about ?
<howefield> nice to see us on planet
<elfy> yea
<bapoumba> well, was about to talk about the SuperMods new group :)
<bapoumba> howefield beats me to it, as always :)
<howefield> carry on bapoumba :)
<bapoumba> Does anyone have the blog post linky handy to paste here ?
<howefield> #topic New Supermods Group.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New Supermods Group.
<howefield> http://ubuntuforumsorg.wordpress.com/2014/12/30/super-moderators/
<elfy> sorry afk there
<bapoumba> thanks howefield :)
<bapoumba> was looking in my bookmarks..
<howefield> you're welcome.
<bapoumba> (my bookmarks are a mess)
<bapoumba> So for the ones reading the meeting notes : please have a look at the blog post
<bapoumba> we are training and mentoring a set of currently 3 Super Mods into Admins duties
<bapoumba> There are lots of talking on different mailing lists about mentoring ubuntu leaders
<bapoumba> We do it :)
<howefield> thanks bapoumba, any more to add from anyone ?
<bapoumba> not from me howefield
<elfy> nope
<cariboo907> nothing from me either
<howefield> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<howefield> ok moving to AOB, guess we have covered it, but any more from anyone ?
<bapoumba> nope
<elfy> :)
<howefield> just leaves Team Report then ?
<elfy> I can sort that out
<howefield> must be about my turn unless anyone - ninja'ed :)
<elfy> not wanting to argue - you can if you like :D
<bapoumba> Fine with me, thanks elfy or howefield :)
<howefield> well, it won't be war and peace :)
<bapoumba> it will be war and war :D
<elfy> indeed not
<elfy> lol bapoumba
<howefield> no Ubuntu Forum Membership applications, so I guess we are done ?
<cariboo907> it shouldn't be we're only 16 minutes in and ready to finish :)
<howefield> :) @ bapoumba
<bapoumba> :)
<howefield> thanks everyone, I'll finish the meeting then.
<bapoumba> thanks for hosting us howefield :)
<cariboo907> thanks howefield
<howefield> short and sweet, same place 1st February, all being well for the next one :)
<bapoumba> I should be there :)
<elfy> thanks all
<howefield> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jan  4 18:25:06 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-01-04-18.05.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-01-04
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  4 16:39:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Bryan Quigley (gQuigs) provided a debdiff for trusty for cups (LP: #1505328)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1505328 in cups (Ubuntu Trusty) "Cups SSL is vulnerable to POODLE" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505328
<tyhicks> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for precise-wily for xen
<tyhicks> Louis Bouchard (caribou) provided debdiffs for trusty-wily for sosreport (LP: #1525271)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1525271 in sosreport (Ubuntu Wily) "CVE-2015-7529 needs to be backported to supported releases" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1525271
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> \o
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on the samba updates
<mdeslaur> I plan on releasing those probably this week
<mdeslaur> and I have some other updates in the security team proposed ppa that need testing
<mdeslaur> and I'll see if I can pick something else from the list after that
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it from me, sbeattie?
<tyhicks> I don't think he's in yet so I'll go
<tyhicks> I'm in the community role this week
<tyhicks> I have a lot of email catchup to do from the holidays (as I'm sure we all do)
<mdeslaur> ctrl-a, del
<tyhicks> after that, I plan on helping jjohansen with the AppArmor stacking work
<tyhicks> :)
<tyhicks> I'd also like to spend a little bit of time looking at rngd and if it works to seed /dev/random with the hwrng on the beagle bone black
<jjohansen> well right up until you get to that third email ...
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I will be looking at (drowning in) the email backlog as well
<jjohansen> besides that it doing AppArmor stacking work
<jjohansen> well and I guess syncing up with sbeattie and the kteam on where the kernel is
<jjohansen> s/kernel/kernel workflow/
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week
<sarnold> also digging my way out of email
<sarnold> will continue the dpdk mir this week, aiming to finish it soon
<sarnold> will help out with apparmor kernel patch review once that's finished
<sarnold> and learn how to speak in complete sentences next week
<sarnold> chrisccoulson?
<tyhicks> jjohansen: do we have any pending apparmor kernel patch reviews to be done?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a thunderbird update to do this week. And it looks like Oxide and Chromium too
<mdeslaur> oh forgot to mention. because of my two-week holiday, I completely forgot how debian packaging works.
<tyhicks> I thought I went through all pending patches in the last working week of 2015
<jjohansen> tyhicks: no, I think you covered it all
<tyhicks> sarnold: fyi ^
<sarnold> oh hooray :)
<jjohansen> of course since sarnold has so much fun with them ...
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: sorry, go ahead :)
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through my e-mail backlog (well,  ctrl+a, del) and doing some reviews
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: lots of updates :)
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: impressive that you can remember how debian packaging works across the weekends
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jgit.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openjpa.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-h8300-hms.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.8-ppc64el-cross.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/doctrine.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<dholbach> just because you mentioned highlighted packages... maybe somebody could take a look at bug 1528682? I saw it in the sponsoring queue today
<ubottu> bug 1528682 in ffmpeg (Ubuntu) "FFmpeg security fixes December 2015 II" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528682
<dholbach> but it's not a real discussion item... :)
<tyhicks> dholbach: thanks - I'll have a look this week as part of the community role rotation that I'm on
<dholbach> awesome - thanks
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  4 16:55:51 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-04-16.39.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<cyphermox_> o/
<ginggs> happy new year all!
<LocutusOfBorg1> hi :)
 * stgraber waves
<micahg> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdmurray> o/
<cyphermox_> who`s turn to chair?
<micahg> me I think
<micahg> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  4 19:06:24 2016 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<micahg> Welcome to the DMB meeting
<micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<micahg> #subtopic DMB members who didn't consent to fill in feedback to Noskcaj
<micahg> I'm guessing we didn't do this again?
<micahg> carried
<micahg> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<micahg> #subtopic TimoJyrinki / ubuntu-qt-packages
<micahg> I think this just needs a quick vote, right?
<stgraber> yeah
<cyphermox_> yup
<stgraber> and some paperwork as I believe we have the set but no team, I'll take care of that part
<micahg> ok
<micahg> #voters micahg stgraber cyphermox_ bdmurray
<meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox_ micahg stgraber
<stgraber>   Mirv -> +1 (IMHO this could have been handled without the extra round
<stgraber>   trip)
<micahg> #vote Please vote to grant TimoJyrinki rights to the ubuntu-qt-packages packageset
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote to grant TimoJyrinki rights to the ubuntu-qt-packages packageset
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<stgraber> that's from Laney ^
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox_
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote to grant TimoJyrinki rights to the ubuntu-qt-packages packageset
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> that's +5 actually, so that passes
<micahg> stgraber: you ok with the action items around that
<stgraber> yeah, I'll take care of it
<infinity> Derp.  I'll learn when this meeting is some day.
<micahg> #action stgraber to create team for ubuntu-qt-packages and add timo-jyrinki to it
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to create team for ubuntu-qt-packages and add timo-jyrinki to it
<micahg> #voters infinity
<meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox_ infinity micahg stgraber
<micahg> welcome infinity
<micahg> I think ginggs is next on the agenda
 * xnox is here, sorry i'm late
<micahg> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Application
<micahg> #voters xnox
<meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox_ infinity micahg stgraber xnox
<micahg> #subtopic Graham Inggs
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GrahamInggs/CoreDevApplication
<micahg> ginggs: can you introduce yourself please
<ginggs> hi, I'm Graham Inggs, I've been a MOTU for 2 years and would like to become a core-dev
<cyphermox_> I see a lot of uploads, but I find it a little hard to see what work you did that was in main specifically, could you help by pointing us at some things you`re particularly proud of?
<xnox> cyphermox_, well, looking at http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsoree=Graham+Inggs&sponsoree_search=name it seem like all the things that were sponsored in 2014 & 2015 were for main, as all other universe uploads are just in launchpad related packages.
<ginggs> in main there have been some nvidia driver uploads (those are restricted, actually)
<ginggs> recently I was invovled with the suitesparse transition
<cyphermox_> xnox: not on my own computer, so I`m without my bookmarks :P
<xnox> cyphermox_, ah =) ok, np. =) still chatting is more personal =)
<ginggs> then there have been the occasional syncs from debian
<xnox> ginggs, after uploading a package into ubuntu, do you do any follow-ups after that?
<ginggs> i remain subscribed to the bugs and often subscribe to all bugs for those packages
<ginggs> i also check that the packages build everywhere they are supposed to and migrate from proposed
<infinity> ginggs: I don't think I have any questions, per se, about your technical skill.  More just a question of what you intend to do with permissions to the entire archive.
<infinity> ginggs: Specific main packages you care about, more involvement in transitions, etc.
<infinity> (ie: don't be a core-dev unless you need to be)
<ginggs> I would probably upload Nvidia drivers from time to time, but I will co-ordinate with tseliot on those, but if there is a fix I won't always have to wait on him
<stgraber> micahg: actually, I won't be able to carry that action until the CC adds me back to the TB :)
<xnox> ginggs, would you at all have any time to be a sponsor, and/or review things to be sponsored? http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html
<xnox> stgraber, lolz =)
<stgraber> micahg: got everything else done but can't actually add the archive ACL as that requires to be a TB member
<stgraber> was wondering why LP didn't like me and was giving me odd 401s for some stuff, that'd be why
<ginggs> Yes, I have sponsored a few packages already https://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=Graham+Inggs&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=&sponsoree_search=name
<micahg> stgraber: right, saw the mail on that earlier
<ginggs> obviously I haven't been able to sponsor any main packages, but being a core-dev would allow me to
<xnox> nice =)
<infinity> ginggs: Right, so that's where it hinges for me.  An application for status is pointless, an application because you intend to do core-devy things is great, we need more people doing generally awesome general things.
<infinity> ginggs: If you're all about helping people with review/sponsorship (emphasis on the REVIEW part), and mangling other main packages here and there, I'm happy with it.
<ginggs> i'm very particular about testing before sponsoring
<stgraber> micahg: elmo was kind enough to run edit-acl for me, so that's my action taken care of
<micahg> stgraber: cool, thanks
<micahg> ginggs: have you worked with the -proposed pocket migration to the release pocket in the devel release at all?
<ginggs> i'm familiar with this page: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<micahg> have you ever helped a package migrate to the release pocket?
<ginggs> and i know to check for autopkgtest failures
<ginggs> and reverse-depends
<ginggs> is that what you mean?
<micahg> yes, partially, have you actually fixed any issues that have come about due to an autopkgtest failure to help a package migrate?
<ginggs> yes
<micahg> I believe I've seen you work on transitions, so I won't ask about those
<micahg> great
<micahg> I think that's it for questions
<micahg> #vote Please vote on ginggs becoming core-dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on ginggs becoming core-dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<cyphermox_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox_
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<micahg> and a +1 from Laney in absentia
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on ginggs becoming core-dev
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> ginggs: congrats
<cyphermox_> I`m going to have to go soon
<ginggs> thanks, all!
<LocutusOfBorg1> congratz ginggs
<cyphermox_> congrats ginggs
<micahg> cyphermox_: we still have quorum without you
<cyphermox_> yeah, just saying in advance.
<micahg> I don't see psusi around
<micahg> #topic MOTU applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: MOTU applications
<micahg> #subtopic Gianfranco Costamagna
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GianfrancoCostamagna/MOTUApplication
<micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: could you introduce yourself please
<LocutusOfBorg1> Hi, I'm Gianfranco Costamagna, I'm Debian Developer since 5 months, and I have been a DM since 2012 or 2013. I became a DD since I like to maintain my packages there, and sync on Ubuntu, but I always wanted to be an Ubuntu Developer (I applied for NM because somebody told me it was easier to became an Ubuntu starting from being a DD)
<LocutusOfBorg1> I worked a lot on merges, and on forwarding patches to Debian (you will see some syncs, because I uploaded the ubuntu delta on Debian and synced soonafter the accept)
<LocutusOfBorg1> s/a lot/on a lot
<LocutusOfBorg1> my interests are keeping packages in sync, or at least up-to-date with Debian (this includes looking at merges or doing them myself)
<LocutusOfBorg1> (e.g. I opened a gambas3 merge a few seconds ago, still needing work, but with a preliminar patch)
<LocutusOfBorg1> I think that's all :)
<micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: have you ever worked with any of the Ubuntu flavors (Xubuntu/Kubuntu/Lubuntu) whose packages mainly are in universE?
<xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, are you going to upload boost-mpi-source1.58 =) and do you know why it needs an upload now? =))))))))
<LocutusOfBorg1> xnox, sure
<LocutusOfBorg1> micahg, I think I don't remember none of them
<LocutusOfBorg1> but I might be wrong, it has been 3 years since my start :)
<micahg> do you know of a way to tell a package is on a particular Ubuntu image, in case you need to give one of the flavors a heads up on an upload (or preferably discuss beforehand if it's a potentially disruptive change)
<LocutusOfBorg1> honestly not
<micahg> so, there's a script in ubuntu-dev-tools
<micahg> called seeded-in-ubuntu that can tell you if a package that you're about to upload is on an image
<LocutusOfBorg1> thanks
<xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, which tools do you usually use when working on ubuntu? =)
<LocutusOfBorg1> I know reverse-depends, pbuilder-dist, grab-merge, and many others, but never used seeded-in-ubuntu
<infinity> (Takes a source package as an argument)
<LocutusOfBorg1> I use grab-merge, and dput, and debdiff to look to the output
<LocutusOfBorg1> for sync I use syncpackage (well, I can't now), and requestsync
<LocutusOfBorg1> I use backportpackage
<LocutusOfBorg1> update-maintainer
<mapreri> oh, last time I manually looked at all seeds :\
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg1: FWIW, this application is a strong +1 from me, as long as you continue your trend of asking questions and being careful about your uploads.  Better to be inquisitive than to be wrong. ;)
<LocutusOfBorg1> I think I'll start using pull-debian* checksymbols and something more, such as check-mir
<LocutusOfBorg1> thanks infinity, better safe than sorry :)
<micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: are you aware of the release cycle in Ubuntu and the various freezes?
<LocutusOfBorg1> micahg, completely https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<LocutusOfBorg1> :)
<micahg> :)
 * LocutusOfBorg1 also breaks freezes each time, e.g. for virtualbox
 * LocutusOfBorg1 because kernel is uploaded after the freeze, and vbox ships a kernel module :)
<micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: do you just upload (or request sponsorship), or do you have to do something else before you can upload a new major version after feature freeze?
<LocutusOfBorg1> check reverse-dependencies, I shouldn't start a transition
<LocutusOfBorg1> and for sure it needs to migrate from proposed, so each thing that can prevent migration should be avoided/fixed
<LocutusOfBorg1> and check new features carefully for possible breaks
<cyphermox_> I gotta go now, my vote would be +1 :)
<cyphermox_> see you all later!
<LocutusOfBorg1> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/can-utils/+bug/1290253
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290253 in can-utils (Ubuntu) "[Ffe] Sync can-utils 0.0+git20140227-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<LocutusOfBorg1> thanks cyphermox
<LocutusOfBorg1> e.g. this page is so important for me http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/xenial/update_excuses.html
<micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: what's the 'Ffe' part in the bug?
<LocutusOfBorg1> feature freeze exception, something I like to ask ;)
<micahg> right, that's the piece I was getting at :0
<micahg> :)
<LocutusOfBorg1> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ettercap/+bug/1382848 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ettercap/+bug/1161001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1382848 in ettercap (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync ettercap 1:0.8.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,Fix released]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1161001 in ettercap (Ubuntu) "[ffe] please Sync ettercap 1:0.7.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<micahg> ok, if there's no more questions, I'll start the vote
<micahg> #vote Gianfranco Costamagna for MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Gianfranco Costamagna for MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<infinity> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from infinity
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<xnox> and cyphermox is probably gone now.
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Gianfranco Costamagna for MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> LocutusOfBorg1: congrats
<LocutusOfBorg1> thanks :) [21:05:15] <cyphermox_> I gotta go now, my vote would be +1 :)
<mapreri> :) congrats mate ;)
<LocutusOfBorg1> thanks you all :D
<micahg> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: AOB
<micahg> #info next chair is infinity
<xnox> there was a poke that there will be members expiring from dmb.
<micahg> yep
<micahg> #info DMB election for 3 seats soon
<micahg> any volunteers to run it?
<xnox> one of which is I, and I shall not be nominating myself to run in the election.
<xnox> just thought to let you all know.
<infinity> xnox: Sounds like you just nominated yourself to run the election itself, then, so you can replace yourself. :P
<xnox> infinity, damn, i guess i do qualify to be a returning officer *sigh*
<xnox> also infinity you are extra special - your expiry term is out of sync with everybody else.
<micahg> yeah, I think that was a mistake
<xnox> i wonder if that's a mistake and e.g. you should be either aligned to the 2016 or the 2017 cycles.
<micahg> should be 2017
<infinity> That was because I was in some special by-election to replace ScottK, wasn't I?
<micahg> yep
<micahg> and he had just been elected that year
<micahg> *re-elected
<xnox> infinity, yes you are special =)
 * infinity is a pretty, pretty snowflake.
<micahg> ok, we'll find a victI^Wvolunteer to run the election at the next meeting
<micahg> anything else?
<micahg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  4 20:18:18 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-04-19.06.moin.txt
<xnox> that's it from me, i shall go back to hanging curtains.
<micahg> thanks all
<xnox> tah
<infinity> Ta.
<xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, and do make that boost-mpi-source1.58 upload =)
<xnox> now that you can.
<LocutusOfBorg1> thanks xnox I just need to followup with some permission granting, not sure about the workflow, but I think I'll take some days to learn the process
<LocutusOfBorg1> I don't like newbie mistakes :D
<xnox> LocutusOfBorg1, yeap, no problem =) launchpad is good at rejecting really bad things =)
<LocutusOfBorg1> :D
<LocutusOfBorg1> I know fortunately
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-01-05
<Mirv> a quick thanks for yesterday meeting's +1 vote on PPU.
<gnuoy> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  5 16:00:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is gnuoy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<gnuoy> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gnuoy> hmm no action points...
<gnuoy> unless I'm missing something
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<gnuoy> moving on
<gnuoy> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<gnuoy> lets take a look at the release schedule
<gnuoy> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<gnuoy> that doesn't seem to be responding for me
<gnuoy> ah, there it is
<gnuoy> Jan 7 Alpha 1 (Monday, for opt-in flavors)
<gnuoy> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gnuoy> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gnuoy> argh, wrong one
<gnuoy> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gnuoy> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1514731
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1514731 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514731). The error has been logged
<gnuoy> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1514482
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1514482 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Xenial) "walinuxagent udev should be included in initramfs" [High,Confirmed]
<gnuoy> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1510345
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1510345 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] Cloud Images do not bring up networking w/ certain virtual NICs due to device naming rules" [High,Triaged]
<gnuoy> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1499620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1499620 in python-oslo.log (Ubuntu Wily) "[SRU] Unintended assignment of "syslog"" [High,In progress]
<gnuoy> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1510108
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1510108 in lxc (Ubuntu Xenial) "pre-installed lxc in cloud-image means loss of access to 10.0.X.0/24" [Medium,Triaged]
<gnuoy> Two unassigned and apparently dosaboy is dealing with one and the other is incomplete
<gnuoy> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> gnuoy: I'm good, nothing on my side
<gnuoy> caribou, ta
<gnuoy> anyone got anything for caribou?
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<gnuoy> matsubara, anything from you?
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<arges> Nothing to report. Feed us any bugs.
<gnuoy> arges, ta
<nacc> gnuoy: i think matsubara is still on vacation
<gnuoy> nacc, ok, thanks for the update
<gnuoy> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<gnuoy> not sure what fosdems deadline is or if anyone had submitted a talk?
<gnuoy> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<gnuoy> node that I know of
<gnuoy> s/node/none/
<gnuoy> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> teward: did you have anything?
<rbasak> I guess not.
<gnuoy> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gnuoy> Next meeting Tuesday 12th January and your host will be the lovely zul
<gnuoy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  5 16:12:57 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-05-16.00.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks gnuoy
<kickinz1> thanks!
<gnuoy> np
<dosaboy> gnuoy: sorry little slow on the mark, re 1499620 i'm waiting for someone to upload to proposed but its been a while
<sabdfl> hello all
<sabdfl> ish
<mdeslaur> sabdfl: tech board meeting is in #ubuntu-meeting-2 if you're looking for it
<sabdfl> thanks mdeslaur
<Lord_System> Hello People Ubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-01-07
<pitti> o/
 * slangasek waves
<xnox> hola =)
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  7 16:02:15 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * doko grumbles after an update to xenial and thnderbird showing an empty folder pane
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> robru sil2100 xnox bdmurray pitti barry tdaitx cyphermox infinity chiluk slangasek doko caribou
<robru> i win!
<sil2100> Oh my
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> * random small fixes for bugs found in production
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro/charm
<robru> * Fix key handling to use proper juju options rather than bespoke nonsense.
<robru> * define ppa-team option rather than hard-coding the two possible teams
<slangasek> everybody can tell us about their short week :)
<robru> * Add support for openstack creds so that jenkins artifacts can be uploaded to swift.
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * Hide 'Updated ...' comments by default.
<robru> * Input validation
<robru> * nagios check
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> * major overhaul of mojo spec to help prevent a repeat of the big outage just before christmas
<sil2100> Done? :)
<robru> grrr
<robru> 08:03:13 <robru> * nagios check
<robru> 08:03:13 <robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> 08:03:13 <robru> * major overhaul of mojo spec to help prevent a repeat of the big outage just before christmas
<robru> 08:03:13 <robru> (done)
<sil2100> No EOT marker, not sure if I can go on
<sil2100> - Short week, started from Monday, national holiday on Wednesday
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - Updated landing documentation
<sil2100> - system-image:
<sil2100>   * Updated documentation regarding new features
<sil2100> - Landing Team tools:
<sil2100>   * Add the landing-info tool to fetch train info per package version
<sil2100> - +1-maintenance:
<sil2100>   * Prepared network-manager-applet 1.0.10 merge
<sil2100>   * Looked into merging network-manager-pptp 1.0.8 - requires new ppp
<sil2100>   * Checked merging ppp 2.4.7-1+1 and did a test build, prepare merge
<sil2100> - Image copies and manipulation for ubuntu-core releases
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> - fixing FTBFS...
<xnox> (done)
<bdmurray> mojo spec work - utilization of cassandra username and password
<bdmurray> modified errors code / charms to properly configure static files (no more assets.u.c)
<bdmurray> discovered /fixed issue with setting errors_secret_key on install
<bdmurray> worked with webops to look into error retrieving ddebs from LP (librarian bug)
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<bdmurray> worked on a fix / submitted mp for apport bug LP: #1500541
<bdmurray> â done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1500541 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace crashed with IOError in __main__: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '_usr_bin_Xorg.0.crash'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500541
<bdmurray> investigation into SRU of the fix for LP: #1439769 to Trusty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1439769 in update-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "various linux packages being marked as manually installed, still prevents 'apt-get autoremove' from doing the right thing for kernels" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439769
<bdmurray> worked with google code in student re lp_buttontags (task completed)
<pitti> (done?)
<pitti> oh, apparently your paste was scrambled a bit
<pitti> autopkgtest: set up armhf testing in Scalingstack, run into kernel bug, investigate (LP: #1531768)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1531768 in linux (Ubuntu) "arm64 kernel and multiple CPUs is unusably slow" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1531768
<pitti> archive:
<pitti>  - Untangle dozens of FTBFS and test regressions of various PHP modules, land new php5
<pitti>  - help with perl migration (depended on PHP, some failing tests, some demotions, etc.), now landed at last
<pitti>  - merges: debhelper, ifupdown, openvpn, ruby-defaults, systemd
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - test hallyn's pam-cgm with user lxc
<pitti>  - ifupdown: fix upgrade failure (#1531685)
<pitti>  - scour: package new upstream version, add py3 package and autopkgtest (as requested by doko)
<pitti>  - debci: fix flaky tests
<pitti> EOF
<tdaitx> * Clear up email/bug/other backlog from the holidays
<tdaitx> * Build and retest OpenJDK 6 TLS patch (LP: #1482924)
<tdaitx> * Looking into OpenJDK 9 build failures, using ppc64el machine for tests
<tdaitx> Next:
<tdaitx> - Finish up freeipmi merge (LP: #1527685)
<tdaitx> - Continue squid3 merge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482924 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Regressions due to USN-2696-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482924
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1527685 in freeipmi (Ubuntu) "Please merge freeipmi 1.4.11-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527685
<slangasek> cyphermox is out this week
<tdaitx> adam is not joining, he sent the status through email
<slangasek> infinity sent his status by email
<slangasek> chiluk:
<chiluk> LP: #1347788 - Upstream findutils has released a new blessed stable version, not sure what the chances of getting this merged into xenial will be.
<chiluk> LP: #1527062 - User reported hotfix kernel resolved issue, looking into what other kernels may be affected, and backporting.
<chiluk>  -fin-
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347788 in findutils (Ubuntu Xenial) "find crashed when current working directory is not readable and -exec or -execdir used" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347788
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1527062 in linux-lts-wily (Ubuntu) "XFS Deadlock on 4.2+" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527062
<slangasek>  * reviewed freeipmi merge sponsorship request; feedback given (LP: #1527685)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1527685 in freeipmi (Ubuntu) "Please merge freeipmi 1.4.11-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527685
<slangasek>  * looking this week at golang merge (LP: #1524165)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1524165 in golang (Ubuntu) "merge with debian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1524165
<slangasek>   * Debian has also updated to golang 1.5.2, so new upstream version coming
<slangasek>  * discussions preceding next week's CDO sprint
<slangasek>  * discussion with robru, saviq about how to reduce the source package prep time on the train
<slangasek>  * planning regarding juju support on s390x
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek>  * working to help get P7 hardware returned that has been replaced by P8 systems
<tdaitx> slangasek, thanks for the freeipmi review btw =)
<slangasek> tdaitx: no problem!
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - test rebuilds: baseline and pie finished, gcc6 ongoing
<doko> - reduced and submitted upstream/linaro issues for GCC issues, both GCC 5 and GCC 6
<doko> - around 40 merges for main
<doko> - continue GCC 6 packaging
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<sil2100> Any objections for me to take care of merging different ppp-like packages?
<bdmurray> Is there anything special to be aware about re bug 1531194?
<ubottu> bug 1531194 in app-install-data-partner (Ubuntu Xenial) "13.04 "raring-partner" channel included in 14.04/15.04/15.10/16.04" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1531194
<slangasek> sil2100: I don't think anyone here is likely to object to that; are there specific packages you have in mind that someone here is TIL for?
<xnox> bdmurray, i think it's just a bug... but would be interesting to check that e.g. software centre doesn't break (it has channels stuff too)
<slangasek> bdmurray: huh. is there a way to fix that which doesn't require it to be manually touched for each release?
<sil2100> slangasek: not particularily, I already poked on -devel and just wanted to make sure you guys have nothing against that as well ;) It's like ppp, pptpd, fso-gsmd and the like
<slangasek> sounds fine :)
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> slangasek: I didn't think about it that much yet.
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok.  since it has to ship a file within the package that contains the info, I don't see a good way to make it no-touch series neutral.  Could do something with dpkg triggers and update it whenever base-files / distro-data updates... or we could just add it to a list of packages that need to be touched when the archive opens for the cycle
<slangasek> the source does seem to already auto-generate the release name, so it only needs an upload to get the right name
<bdmurray> roger
<slangasek> should probably be recorded on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewReleaseCycleProcess
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  7 16:27:16 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-07-16.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<sil2100> o/
<seb128> hey
<dholbach> hey :)
<sgclark> hello
<mhall119> o/
<dholbach> czajkowski, hggdh, marcoceppi: around?
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  7 17:01:42 2016 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> hey seb128 :)
<jcastro> is this for the membership meeting?
<dholbach> no, CC meeting
<marcoceppi> o/
<dholbach> meeting up with Desktop team and later on with the DMB
<dholbach> #catching up with the Desktop team
<dholbach> #topic catching up with the Desktop team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: catching up with the Desktop team
<dholbach> seb128: how are you doing? :)
<seb128> hey!
<seb128> Laney should be around as well for desktop ;-)
<seb128> doing well! what about you?
<dholbach> great, thanks :)
<dholbach> how are things in the desktop team? how's 16.04 shaping up?
<seb128> things are looking quite nice
<seb128> we are mostly done with updates/merges/features landing
<mhall119> some big things this cycle right
<mhall119> ?
<Laney> hi
<seb128> not big/disruptives features
<seb128> though some interesting bits
<mhall119> seb128: is there still work going on to support Snappy app installation?
<seb128> but mostly bugfixing and polish
<dholbach> big icons on the desktop, right?
<dholbach> SCNR :)
<seb128> dholbach, indeed!
<seb128> like them right?
<seb128> mhall119, no idea, that's a question for the snappy team
<dholbach> errrrmm
<seb128> they are the ones working on that
<seb128> mvo was more specifically
<mhall119> seb128: oh, I thought you guys on will's team were working on that
<dholbach> let's say I haven't got used to them yet :)
<seb128> mhall119, no
<mhall119> ok
<seb128> dholbach, we changed the default size to be smaller, might not apply to those who upgraded/loaded a session with the old version though
<czajkowski> aloha :)
<seb128> but users upgrading now should have less "in your face" ones ;-)
<seb128> hey czajkowski!
<mhall119> seb128: have the online-scopes changes all landed and settled?
<dholbach> oh ok... so I have to apply some magic somewhere to get it fixed?
<seb128> mhall119, I think so
<didrocks> (yes, just a server-side part still needed by the online service team)
<seb128> there were some server side changes pending iirc but I didn't check on those
<seb128> didrocks, ^ do you know what's the status?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> he snapped me :p
<seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> https://twitter.com/didrocks/status/676759237100486660
<didrocks> btw ;)
<mhall119> is chipaca the person to ask about the server-side still?
<didrocks> mhall119: I guess he's part of the guys who should look at it, yeah
<seb128> dholbach, just move the slider in the icon/list icon (top right corner) to small, if that's still too big then we need to do more
<didrocks> should be a 10 minutes change on the server, still needs to happen though :)
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't know you were using twitter ;-)
<marcoceppi> \o/ remote search
<didrocks> seb128: started recently (but also updated on g+, as usual)
<dholbach> I'm not quite sure which slider, but let's take that offline, I guess :)
<seb128> yeah
<mhall119> seb128: didrocks: Laney: who do you have in the community that is working with your team? What do you think we can do to increase that community participation?
<dholbach> is the desktop team involved in any unity8 bits or supporting other teams in that regard?
<seb128> dholbach, not much at the moment, we are focussing on the LTS
<seb128> we are there for other teams when they need us though
<seb128> and still look at issues/help on some specific bits
<Laney> darkxst and mitya57 and sometimes Noskcaj
<Laney> probably some others
<seb128> no regular contributors to Ubuntu Desktop only
<seb128> but Ubuntu GNOME is doing well and share components
<Laney> those guys are getting upload rights for themselves
<Laney> Tim joined the desktop team
<Laney> which is nice
<mhall119> \o/
<Laney> but it's still following the general trend
<Laney> not as bad as MOTU though
<mhall119> general trend of declining participation?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> declined probably
<mhall119> the guys who are participating,what kind of things are they doing?
<Laney> it's already a few years old thing
<Laney> usually things motivated by flavour needs
<Laney> updates, patches and stuff
<mhall119> patches to apps, gtk, something else?
<dholbach> and the coordination there is going well?
<Laney> it's not hard to coordinate with 2-3 people
<Laney> patches to applications and libraries, yeah
<Laney> mitya57 learned how to work the CI train too
<dholbach> right... but in the past there were issues because some decision on ubuntu desktop blocked a flavour, etc
<dholbach> I was interested in hearing if that's been an issue recently
<Laney> More because the desktop team was making breaking changes I would guess
<Laney> I think we don't do so much of that any more
<seb128> we updated most of the components this cycle, including the apps we blocked for some cycles like gedit
<Laney> but there are still some annoying areas
<dholbach> or one team needing newer components than the other
<Laney> like we maintain a need for some UI changes which is a drag
<mhall119> I'm glad to hear that the community guys are getting upload rights, are you encouraging them all to progress towards becoming Ubuntu Developers?
<seb128> it's still somewhat conflicting needs but we are dealing with it ok
<dholbach> ok, that's good to hear
<Laney> and I've just today been looking at some changes to get us off an old webkit version
<dholbach> <3
<Laney> I suppose that interests the flavours because we have to revert patches
<dholbach> the future is here :-)
<Laney> but I wouldn't say there has been a lot of community energy around it really
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> Laney: what would you like to see to improve this ?
<czajkowski> what can we do to drive some life into it ?
<Laney> UDS? :)
<mhall119> Laney: come to UbuCon Summit :)
<marcoceppi> ubucon!
<sgclark> ahh yes that is soon
<czajkowski> mhall119: but what about EU, when do we get to have them over here in the same level?
<Laney> I'm not invited though
<dholbach> czajkowski: one step after the other
<Laney> and neither do most of the community have the oppportunity to apply for sponsorship as far as I know
<mhall119> czajkowski: UbuCon EU will hopefully become that
<Laney> anyway I was being a bit facetious
<dholbach> Laney: apply for sponsorship
<dholbach> let's take a step at a time - that we get a big group of people together again after many years of no UDS-like event at all is a good step and something dpm and other put quite a lot of work into
<Laney> I guess we're not as exciting as we might have been once? Or people moved on for whatever reasons
<mhall119> Laney: why do theynot have the opportunity to apply for sponsorship?
<Laney> Somehow attract people back
<sgclark> Well, I think it is larger than that, I know we are feeling a pinch from lack of new contributors at Kubuntu
<dholbach> did the desktop team add tasks to the google code in this time?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> yeah, didrocks can probably tell you how that went
<dholbach> nice... how did that go?
 * Laney didn't hear
<seb128> didrocks and willcooke have been looking at desktop contributions
<didrocks> we had quite some contributions (and I'm still helping people as we speak in separate channels :))
<seb128> they seemed to be positive
 * dholbach hugs didrocks
<sgclark> awesome
<didrocks> right now, we have 5 tasks that are closed (not trivial ones)
 * didrocks hugs dholbach back
<didrocks> 3 in serious progress
<didrocks> some other opened, with less traction, but we'll see :)
<dholbach> and they're hanging out with you guys in the desktop channel already? :)
<Laney> mhall119: well maybe I missed it but I didn't see an invitation to apply anywhere
<didrocks> dholbach: unfortunatly, they either stay on the google-ubuntu channel or use PM
<didrocks> (or just the web interface)
<mhall119> Laney: the process is different from UDS sponsorship, if you missed it that means we didn't do a very good job advertising it
<mhall119> dholbach: ^^ we should make a note to improve that for the next big UbuCon
<dholbach> makes sense
<dholbach> it's part of the ubuntu community donations fund
<mhall119> maybe bake it into ubucon.org at some point
<dholbach> http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
<mhall119> Laney: ^^ for future reference
<Laney> I know about that fund
<mhall119> that's what is being used to sponsor community people to go to UbuCon Summit
<Laney> but not that you could use it to apply for sponsorship to this thing
<Laney> ok
<mhall119> it can be used to apply for travel expenses to any event where your presence will benefit Ubuntu
<dholbach> right, that could have been more explicit - people used the fund in the past to get to conferences
<Laney> I would not like to use that for myself as an employee though, that feels strange to me
<mhall119> Laney: yeah, I think all the Canonical employees going are being paid for by Canonical
<mhall119> but it can (and should) be used by employees for community-oriented work
<mhall119> ok, getting back on topic since we have only a couple minutes left, what can we change or improve to get more people excited about participating in the desktop's development?
<seb128> unsure, that question doesn't feel like specific to desktop
<Laney> umm so I have one project that we'll want to get some help on
<dholbach> do we have some more smaller tasks you could hand out to new contributors?
<dholbach> Laney: which one?
<Laney> if and when we switch to GNOME software there will be a new source for app metadata
<mhall119> Google Code-In sounds like it's getting some fresh faces, which is great, we should encourage them to stick around and work towards becoming Ubuntu Members and eventually Ubuntu Developers
<Laney> which is different and in some ways more strict than app-install-data which softare-center uses now
<Laney> some things will need fixing and we'll eventually have a website listing them
<Laney> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2015/12/msg00004.html
<sgclark> do we have like a junior jobs listing anywhere?
<dholbach> so this metadata needs to be compiled?
<sgclark> probably just a file right?
<sgclark> xml, yaml?
<Laney> we'll have a list of errors
<Laney> things like "Icon not found"
<Laney> *or* for things that have no metadata at all people will be able to write an appstream metadata file to provide that
<Laney> and ideally supply it to the upstream
<dholbach> Laney: if you want help organising the initiative, you can write a mail to ubuntu-community-team@lists.u.c
<mhall119> so it sounds like we need an initiative like we did years ago to get larger icons and Quicklists for apps
<dholbach> I'm sure there's going to be a few folks who can help out organising this
<sgclark> I would be interested in helping with that myself. And promoting it.
<dholbach> <3
<Laney> https://appstream.debian.org/html/sid/main/issues/index.html
<mhall119> Laney: the community team can help with this, certainly.
<Laney> I know that Kubunbu want to use this same data ;-)
<sgclark> exactly lol
<dholbach> great :-D
<Laney> sgclark: yay
<dholbach> Laney: thanks for looking into that!
<mhall119> Laney: will we have to maintain our own set of ths metadata, or can we get the info into debian and then just import it?
<Laney> mhall119: cool, I thought you would find it interesting
<Laney> it is shareable
<Laney> upstreams themselves should ship it really
<sgclark> yeah it needs to be submitted upstream
<Laney> see the many blogs and posts by Richard Hughes
<mhall119> perfect, we'll probably need people to help getting it through Debian's processes, since they are different than Ubuntu's
<Laney> fedora started this last year or even the year before
<sgclark> like for KDE I am adding it as a test in the CI
<Laney> we may even want to insist that they go upstream
<mhall119> Laney: for the Unity Quicklists, we would accept patches in Ubuntu if they were accepted upstream, so we didn't have to wait for everything to flow downstream before we got them, will that be the case here too?
<Laney> because one benefit might be that we stop promoting unmaintained applications
<sgclark> I agree
<Laney> anyway, not decided yet
<dholbach> depending on the timing it might be acceptable to ship a delta for some time, right?
<dholbach> at least for the "important" apps(?)
<sgclark> probably
<seb128> yeah, it's likely that not all apps get releases between the start of the effort and the LTS
<seb128> or that the new versions don't get in Ubuntu because ff
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> nice initiative :)
<Laney> definitely for maintained things
<Laney> questonable for long tail
<Laney> it is a discussion to have
<mhall119> seb128: Laney: ok, as soon as you're ready to start planning for it, bring in the community team and we'll help with documentation and outreach, if you guys can help with the technical bits and working with upstreams
<dholbach> thanks a lot for your hard work on the desktop!
<Laney> will do, thanks!
<mhall119> yes, thank you all for your continued work on the desktop and with the community
<seb128> thanks :-)
<sgclark> thank you for your hard work!
<dholbach> brilliant... any more questions for our desktop heroes?
<mhall119> I'm good
<sgclark> good here.
<dholbach> ok cool - thanks a lot for making time everyone!
<seb128> thank you for the invitation ;-)
<dholbach> do we have folks from the DMB here as well? :)
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the DMB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the DMB
<dholbach> don't we have a dmb-irc-ping thing? :)
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<dholbach> :-)
<xnox> ?
<Laney> maybe someone else could take this half :-)
<xnox> hi =)
<Laney> ah, unlucky
 * Laney runs
<dholbach> the CC is catching up with the DMB :-)
<xnox> oh
<dholbach> how are things?
 * xnox probably forgot to add the invite to my calendar.
<xnox> we have some applicants, we approved some, things are going ok i guess.
<dholbach> well, we're glad you guys are still here :-)
<xnox> i think there was more, and higher-level (motu/core) applicants lately, which is good.
<dholbach> yeah, I noticed some more emails on the mailing list
<dholbach> and not all of them were Canonical folks, which is nice to see as well
<dholbach> I wonder if it's because more teams like the desktop team encourage their contributors to apply?
<dholbach> so would you say that the process is fine-tuned and the machinery is well-oiled enough?
<dholbach> I think I remember that some discussions on the mailing list took a bit longer in the past - do you know if that is still the case?
<xnox> i don't think much changed to be honest. if everyone is present at the meeting, it goes quickly. things deffered to mailing list, are kind of doomed to take forever =)
<dholbach> do you have a longer queue there right now?
<mhall119> are you seeing any obstacles that potential applicants are facing that might stop them from applying?
<xnox> i don't think our queue is too long.
<xnox> it did grow a little due to holidays, but it is reasonable.
<dholbach> ok, that's good to hear
<czajkowski> that's good!
<xnox> obstacles... none that i'm aware per se.
<dholbach> it might be a bit daunting still I could imagine
<dholbach> I think I'll send a mail to the devel list asking people to consider encouraging folks whose uploads they've sponsored - just as a reminder
<mhall119> and encouraging existing developers to write testimonials for applicants
<czajkowski> aye I think part of the thing to do is to remmeber to encourage people
<czajkowski> and that reaching out to people makes a big difference to encourage people to apply
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> is there anything else you feel the CC could help with?
<dholbach> or any questions you have?
<dholbach> hum...
<czajkowski> any other comments?
<dholbach> I feel like this was probably not the best time for the DMB folks O:-)
<sgclark> that is my feeling as well lol
<czajkowski> hard to get the best time for all
<seb128> you used your Laney card in the first half with desktop :p
<czajkowski> but it was nice to catch up with folks
<mhall119> it's like they're doing work or something, geez
<czajkowski> thank you :)
<dholbach> seb128: I know :)
<mhall119> thank you xnox and the rest of the DMB
<dholbach> ok, maybe we can move that part to email... if you have anything, let us know - we're happy to help if we can
<dholbach> and thanks for your work on the DMB!
<sgclark> thank you all for your hard work
<xnox> ;-)
<dholbach> I just posted a note on @ubuntudev asking sponsors to encourage folks they've worked with :)
<dholbach> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?
<dholbach> I checked the agenda and there's nothing else on there, but does anyone have anything they'd like to talk about?
<sgclark> I do not, still trying to catch up after holidays.
<mhall119> can we promote UbuCon again? I've gone 10 minutes without doing that :)
<czajkowski> mhall119: every time you mention UbuCon you need to do 10 squats!
<mhall119> :/
<dholbach> mhall119 will be the squat meister next time we see him :)
<mhall119> I'll decline that title, if it's all the same to you
<dholbach> mhall119: I wanted to write another blog post about it
<czajkowski> LOL
<sgclark> lol
<mhall119> thanks everyone for attending, as always the CC is available anytime we're needed, just give us a ping or an email
<dholbach> ok...... looks like no other topics
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone for attending!
<czajkowski> or mention the word Ubucon and it summons mhall119 :)
<sgclark> thanks for my first catchup
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  7 18:04:28 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-07-17.01.moin.txt
<juanc> listo por aca.
<juanc> Con un poquito de problemas para configurar el irc en la tablet.
 * wxl passes around the french press
 * genii sips
<wxl> alright everyone ready for the membership board meeting?
<Emerling> o/
<Lord_System> o/
<elmudometal> o/
<mariogrip> o/
<ChloeWolfieGirl> o/
<Kilos> hi guys
<wxl> hello everyone :)
<Cyb3rthR0n3> 0/
<toddy> hello
<marcoceppi> \o
<wxl> let me just arrange the chairs real quick
<marcoceppi> we'll start in 2 mins
<marcoceppi> ish
 * wxl passes out donuts and coffee
<Emerling> :)
<Kilos> wxl gracias
<Kilos> wb elacheche_anis
<wxl> de nada, SeÃ±or Kilos
<elacheche_anis> Hey!
<jcastro> hola!
<wxl> Â¿como estÃ¡s, jcastro?
<marcoceppi> #startmeeting 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  7 20:00:12 2016 UTC.  The chair is marcoceppi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<jcastro> good good!
<marcoceppi> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 20:00 UTC meeting for January 7, 2016.
<marcoceppi> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<wxl> Â¡quÃ¨ bueno!
<marcoceppi> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<marcoceppi> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<marcoceppi> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<marcoceppi> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<marcoceppi> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers amounts to at least +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<marcoceppi> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<marcoceppi> #voters Kilos elacheche_anis toddy ahoneybun wxl cwayne popey hggdh jcastro marcoceppi
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: cwayne
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos ahoneybun cwayne elacheche_anis hggdh jcastro marcoceppi popey toddy wxl
<marcoceppi> #topic kokoye2007
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: kokoye2007
<Kilos> hehe
<marcoceppi> kokoye2007 doesn't seem to be here
<marcoceppi> #voters Kilos elacheche_anis toddy ahoneybun wxl cwayne popey hggdh jcastro marcoceppi PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos PabloRubianes ahoneybun cwayne elacheche_anis hggdh jcastro marcoceppi popey toddy wxl
<elacheche_anis> Next, we'll see if he'll be here before the end of the meeting :)
<marcoceppi> Yup
<marcoceppi> #topic Lord_System
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Lord_System
<marcoceppi> Lord_System, please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<elacheche_anis> Lord_System: you're here
<elacheche_anis> ?
<Emerling> o/
<Emerling> Lord_System,  it s here
<Lord_System> O/
<juanc> 0/
<Lord_System> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmanuelTorresC
<Lord_System> launchpad.net/~emanueljtc
<jcastro> I really like your team's pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/138137179@N04/sets/72157662333295920
<jcastro> that's awesome
<marcoceppi> Lord_System: would you like to say a few words/introduce yourself?
<popey> Nice testimonials Lord_System
<PabloRubianes> Lord_System: si tenes problemas con el idioma avisa... yo te ayudo
<Lord_System> Hi jcastro thanks bro
<wxl> i love the online radio station, too https://launchpad.net/~radio-online-ubuntu-venezuela
<ahoneybun> lots of good stuff going on
<wxl> indeed ahoneybun
<Emerling> Lord_System The friend has provided great support for several years in the community. and there have been ideas and projects like the online radio ubuntu Venezuela team.and he has participated in important roles within work teams of our team.
<Lord_System> A pleasure for all the community Ubuntu-ve Venezuela am and as already years ago forming part of the software world free
<Lord_System> A pleasure for all the community Ubuntu-ve Venezuela am and as already years ago forming part of the software world free
<Lord_System> A pleasure for all the community Ubuntu-ve Venezuela am and as already years ago forming part of the software world free
<Lord_System> sorry
<marcoceppi> Are there any questions for Lord_System?
<toddy> Lord_System: Do you use also other distributions of linux than ubuntu?
<ahoneybun> how is your LoCo doing lately Lord_System ?
<Emerling> Lord_System,  have lag
<ahoneybun> that's ok
<Lord_System> yes I've used linux mint among others
<marcoceppi> #vote Lord_System
<meetingology> Please vote on: Lord_System
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<popey> Nice contributions!
<marcoceppi> +1 Great work and amazing community initiatives!
<meetingology> +1 Great work and amazing community initiatives! received from marcoceppi
<Kilos> +1 Keep up the great job you are doing
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the great job you are doing received from Kilos
<wxl> +1 keep up the great work!
<Lord_System> ahoneybun, my current community is ubuntu ve
<meetingology> +1 keep up the great work! received from wxl
<toddy> +1 Thanks for your contribution
<meetingology> +1 Thanks for your contribution received from toddy
<elacheche_anis> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elacheche_anis
<ahoneybun> +1 can't wait to see some more awesome pictures of your LoCo events!
<Emerling> Lord_System,     clpas you hand  aplaude loco,,,     hponor a quien honor merece, la proxima    escribe mas
<meetingology> +1 can't wait to see some more awesome pictures of your LoCo events! received from ahoneybun
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Lord_System
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elacheche_anis> Congrats Lord_System
<marcoceppi> Contrats Lord_System!
<jcastro> congrats!
<Kilos> Lord_System welcome on board and congratulations
<Emerling> felicidades Lord_System
<toddy> congrats Lord_System
<Emerling> que susto me hiciste pasar
<Naudy> felicitaciones Lord_System
<marcoceppi> Okay, next on the list - crisyelit
<marcoceppi> #topic crisyelit
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: crisyelit
<Lord_System> Thanks to all dare best of my real thank you and we apologize for slow I have much lag
<wxl> Â¡felicitaciones Lord_System!
<Emerling> I want to thank all members of ubuntu-ve for supporting his teammates :)
<marcoceppi> crisyelit, please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<Lord_System> my internet is very slow really thanks
<crisyelit> Buenas Tardes a todos, disculpe escribire en espaÃ±ol, ya que mi ingles no es muy bueno, se me permite
<crisyelit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/crisyelit
<crisyelit> https://launchpad.net/~crisyelit
<X3MBoy> crisyelit: te puedo ayudar, sino te molesta
<crisyelit> https://www.flickr.com/cameraroll
<crisyelit> claro X3MBoy
<Emerling> Crisyelit is a friend who has been in charge of organizing events and meetings in the south, working on migration and talks in the region, highlighting the work as it is a region of difficult technological development and it has been a great support for technological development that region
<X3MBoy> crisyelit sayd: Good afternoon to all, i will write in spanish, my english is not so goog, so if you allow me
<crisyelit> mi nombre es jhuliana delgado, ing. sistema, de edo bolivar, venezuela
<wxl> thank you X3MBoy!!!
<Kilos> thanks X3MBoy
<crisyelit> en el estado me he encargado de de realizar las migraciones de windows a linuy
<X3MBoy> crisyelit sayd: my name is jhuliana delgado, systems engineer, from Bolivar, Venezuela
<crisyelit> linux
<elacheche_anis> Thanks X3MBoy & Emerling for supporting your LoCo :)
 * popey added emanueljtc to ubuntumembers
<X3MBoy> crisyelit sayd: in my place i've been in charge of some migrations from windows to linux
<crisyelit> he sido facilitadora para usuarios final en el manejo ubuntu, tando para la parte ofimatica como en el area de desarrollo
<X3MBoy> crisyelit: i've been traineer from final users into the use of ubuntu, each office software and development area
<Lord_System> gracias gente de verdad este internet se puso lento en el momento menos propicio de verdad dare mucho mas de mejor de mi por el proyecto Ubuntu
<toddy> I can not see the pictures on https://www.flickr.com/cameraroll :( â i have no yahoo account
<crisyelit> he participado dando charlas en los eventos tecnologicos en aplicaciones que se puedan instalar y soportar en ubuntu, tales como health
<X3MBoy> crisyelit sayd: i've been participating given speechees in tech events about applcations that can be installed and supported in ubuntu, like "health"
<crisyelit> mi mayor interes a ser miembro de ubuntu, es para aportar en los proyecto de mejoras de plataforma tanto como en areas educativa como desarrollo tecnologicoÃ§
<X3MBoy> crisyelit sayd: my greatest interest in been an Ubuntu Member, is to support projects about improve platforms, both teaching and tech development
<marcoceppi> Excellent, thank you!
<marcoceppi> #vote crisyelit
<meetingology> Please vote on: crisyelit
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<jcastro> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jcastro
<elacheche_anis> +1 Keep the excelent contributions :)
<meetingology> +1 Keep the excelent contributions :) received from elacheche_anis
<Kilos> +1 wonderful work
<meetingology> +1 wonderful work received from Kilos
<marcoceppi> +1 Fantastic work!
<wxl> +1 so impressed about your evangelism!!!!
<meetingology> +1 Fantastic work! received from marcoceppi
<meetingology> +1 so impressed about your evangelism!!!! received from wxl
<toddy> +1 Thanks for your work.
<meetingology> +1 Thanks for your work. received from toddy
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<popey> :)
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: crisyelit
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<marcoceppi> Congrats crisyelit! Welcome
<X3MBoy> crisyelit: Congrats!!!
 * popey adds crisyelit to ubuntumembers
<Emerling> crisyelit,    abrazo amiga, compaÃ±era   felicidades..   exitos, gracias por ser parte del team,.
<popey> Congrats!
<elacheche_anis> Congrats
<Kilos> crisyelit welcome on board
<elacheche_anis> :)
<Naudy> Felicidades crisyelit
<Emerling> crisyelit,  kisses
<Kilos> :D
<mariogrip> Congrats :D
<PabloRubianes> bien! crisyelit
<crisyelit> gracias a todos, me esforzare para no defraudarlos...kiss
<X3MBoy> crisyelit sayd: Thanks all, i will put my effort to not leting you down, kiss
<X3MBoy> crisyelit: ;)
 * wxl starts editing the wiki
<marcoceppi> Cyb3rthR0n3: I believe you are next?
<Cyb3rthR0n3> 0/
<marcoceppi> #topic Cyb3rthR0n3
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Cyb3rthR0n3
<Emerling> crisyelit,  3 woman UM latinamerica
<Kilos> hugs are in order
<marcoceppi> Cyb3rthR0n3, please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<Cyb3rthR0n3> https://launchpad.net/~alfierimorillo
<popey> thanks X3MBoy for translations!
<Cyb3rthR0n3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Alfieri%20Morillo
<Kilos> whew
<x3mboy> popey, no problem
<Kilos> wb x3mboy
<Kilos> keep it up
<wxl> for you english speakers this might be useful https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=es&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ubuntu.com%2FAlfieri%2520Morillo&edit-text=&act=url
<wxl> if you prefer a smaller link http://v.gd/kiFrYJ
<x3mboy> Kilos, sorry, my pidgin fly away, i miss something???
<wxl> ugh i think i had the wrong settings
<wxl> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ubuntu.com%2FAlfieri%20Morillo
<wxl> or http://v.gd/dSwLyN
<Kilos> yes short part/join
<Emerling> he is one of the members has steadily learned and has had some you gave to keep the active team, has been helpful in attending events and contributing ideas face meetings and providing knowledge
<Kilos> you peeps in venezuela seem to have a great team going there
<jcastro> yeah I dig the mutually supporting cast
<wxl> Â¡viva venezuela!
<Emerling> viva!!
<Cyb3rthR0n3> :)
<marcoceppi> Yes, totally!
<Kilos> nice when teams work together like that
<wxl> i think it's notable that Cyb3rthR0n3 was responsible for converting 40 machines at Territorial Polytechnic University JosÃ© Antonio AnzoÃ¡tegui to Ubuntu MATE!
<Kilos> great
<Cyb3rthR0n3> If indeed I was the one responsible for migration
<Cyb3rthR0n3> so far all work very happy
<wxl> Cyb3rthR0n3: well, that's what your wiki page says, no? :)
<marcoceppi> Excellent!
<marcoceppi> #vote Cyb3rthR0n3
<meetingology> Please vote on: Cyb3rthR0n3
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<wxl> +1 keep up the good work!
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work! received from wxl
<marcoceppi> +1 Love the work you've done in the community!
<meetingology> +1 Love the work you've done in the community! received from marcoceppi
<jcastro> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jcastro
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<Kilos> +1Keep it up
<meetingology> +1Keep it up received from Kilos
<jcastro> awesome work all across the board
<toddy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from toddy
<elacheche_anis> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elacheche_anis
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Cyb3rthR0n3
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<wxl> added to members
<marcoceppi> Congrats Cyb3rthR0n3! Welcome!
<wxl> congrats!
<Kilos> congrats
<mariogrip> Congrats :D
<Emerling> felicidades Cyb3rthR0n3    abrazos amigo
<Cyb3rthR0n3> :) thank you very much,
<elacheche_anis> Congrats
<x3mboy> Cyb3rthR0n3, congrats!
<Cyb3rthR0n3> Gracias equipo!
<Kilos> what a team
<Naudy> felicitaciones Cyb3rthR0n3 o/
<Emerling> ubuntu-ve team
<Cyb3rthR0n3> 0/ Gracias por el apoyo!
<Abr1l> Cyb3rthR0n3, felicitaciones
<marcoceppi> #topic elmudometal
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: elmudometal
<marcoceppi> elmudometal, please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<LordSystem> Felicidades mi amigo Cyb3rthR0n3
<elmudometal> good afternoon to all people here
<elmudometal> https://launchpad.net/~elmudometal
<wxl> hi elmudometal! you're the only one with a hackergotchi it seems, so you get an extra +1 XD
<elmudometal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/elmudo
<Kilos> hehe
<w1zz4rd> felicitaciones cyb3rthR0n3
<Emerling> lol
<toddy> elmudometal: good evening. :D
<elmudometal> My name is Hernan Guzman am Maturin Venezuela, ing I work in informatics software development, community seek to promote the use of free software hosting events and migrations.
<wxl> elmudometal: great to meet you! how is the ubuntu phone development coming along?
<elmudometal> I look back at my work area to the community of ubuntu-ve in various parts like translating, beta tester, among other developments
<Emerling> he is one of the partners with major contribution in events for years, has worked constantly reporting bugs and translating, has organized several events such as ubuntu-ve aniversariode and has trasladadoa different parts of the country giving talks and workshops on ubuntu .
<elmudometal> as I currently interested in ubuntu phone and in developing applications for QML
<elmudometal> and ubuntu phone tester in some smartphone is a little slow arrival as a multi device
<elmudometal> but already approaching sdk ubuntu bsatante even cross-platform environment for applications ubuntu and ubuntu phone
<elmudometal> sdk ubuntu but already it is pretty close even cross-platform environment for applications ubuntu and ubuntu phone
<marcoceppi> excellent
<marcoceppi> #vote elmudometal
<meetingology> Please vote on: elmudometal
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Kilos> +1 Great job. keep it up
<meetingology> +1 Great job. keep it up received from Kilos
<jcastro> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jcastro
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<elacheche_anis> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elacheche_anis
<toddy> +1 stay by the work of ubuntu touch
<meetingology> +1 stay by the work of ubuntu touch received from toddy
<marcoceppi> +1 great job!
<meetingology> +1 great job! received from marcoceppi
<popey> +1 - I'd welcome some contributions on ubuntu touch on core apps :)
<meetingology> +1 - I'd welcome some contributions on ubuntu touch on core apps :) received from popey
<ahoneybun> +1 keep working with Ubuntu Touch :)
<meetingology> +1 keep working with Ubuntu Touch :) received from ahoneybun
<wxl> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from wxl
<wxl> go touch!
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: elmudometal
<meetingology> Votes for:9 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<wxl> added to members
<marcoceppi> Congrats elmudometal!
<Kilos> congratulations and welcome aboard
<wxl> congrats!
<Emerling> felicidades elmudometal    abrazos hermano  vamos pa oriente c omer pesacado y celebrar
<elmudometal> thank you very much to all
<Naudy> Felicitacion elmudometal
<popey> \o/
<w1zz4rd> felicitaciones mi pana
<Cyb3rthR0n3> Felicitaciones mano!!
<LordSystem> Felicidades brother
<elmudometal> aca los esperamos !!
<Naudy> \m/
<marcoceppi> Great, okay, one more! mariogrip are you ready?
<Emerling> I want to thank the whole team ubuntu-go for the usual support
<mariogrip> Yes!
<marcoceppi> #topic mariogrip
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20:00 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: mariogrip
<ahoneybun> wait mariogrip ?
<marcoceppi> mariogrip, please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<ahoneybun> +1 already lol
<mariogrip> I'm a 18 Year old open source programmer from Bergen, Norway. I started programming at an early age of 10, and I have always had a love Ubuntu and Linux! I first installed Ubuntu 8.04 on a old HP laptop. I ported Ubuntu Touch to Oneplus one, and currently porting to Oneplus one, two and x. I created the UBports project with an goal of porting Ubuntu Touch to
<mariogrip> as many devices as I can. (ubports.com and github.com/ubports)
<jcastro> yeah seriously the oneplus?
<jcastro> +1 from me
<mariogrip> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MariusGripsgard
<mariogrip> https://launchpad.net/~mariogrip
<ahoneybun> his OnePlus One port is pretty much 100%
<wxl> nice mariogrip !!! can i get you to make some ports for me? XD
 * popey is running Ubuntu on a OnePlus One thanks to the work from mariogrip 
<ChloeWolfieGirl>  \(owo)/
<mariogrip> And i'm also really interested in Ubuntu snappy and ubuntu convergence
<wxl> i think the ubports project needs a link on the touch pagfe
<wxl> i guess there KIND OF is one
<ahoneybun> for sure wxl +100000000
<popey> I pasted a testimonial from dpm (because he is in the pub, afk)
<popey> (he wrote it, I can prove that)
<wxl> in any case, that's highly impressive
<marcoceppi> Any additional questions?
<wxl> mariogrip rules! let's vote! :)
<marcoceppi> #vote mariogrip
<meetingology> Please vote on: mariogrip
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<marcoceppi> +1 great work so far, keep it up!
<meetingology> +1 great work so far, keep it up! received from marcoceppi
<wxl> +1 port all the things!
<meetingology> +1 port all the things! received from wxl
<elacheche_anis> +1 nice work!
<meetingology> +1 nice work! received from elacheche_anis
<jcastro> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jcastro
<Kilos> +1 dont stop now
<meetingology> +1 dont stop now received from Kilos
<toddy> +1 nice work!
<meetingology> +1 nice work! received from toddy
<ahoneybun> +1 amazing port work, keep it up!!!!
<meetingology> +1 amazing port work, keep it up!!!! received from ahoneybun
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<popey> (I would plus more, but I can't)
<Kilos> hehe
<mariogrip> Thanks! :D
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: mariogrip
<meetingology> Votes for:8 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<wxl> added to members
<toddy> congrats mariogrip
<marcoceppi> Congrats mariogrip welcome!
<popey> wxl, beat me to it :)
<wxl> congrats!!!
<Kilos> congrats marcoceppi
<mariogrip> Thanks everyone :D
<ahoneybun> add some 0's to that 8
<Naudy> congrats mariogrip
<wxl> popey: i had my finger on the button :)
<elacheche_anis> Congrats to ALL new members :)
<marcoceppi> Congrats to all new members: Lord_System crisyelit Cyb3rthR0n3 elmudometal and mariogrip!
<ahoneybun> awesomesauce
<Kilos> great meeting
<popey> yeah!
<Kilos> ubuntu scores
<marcoceppi> Thank you board members and all who voiced support for todays candidates
<popey> I love it when we get a whole clean slate!
<marcoceppi> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  7 20:56:23 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-07-20.00.moin.txt
<Kilos> marcoceppi thanks for chairing
<Cyb3rthR0n3> thanks!
<ahoneybun> popey, you have a list of everyone who is now a member?
<elacheche_anis> Thanks for chairing marcoceppi :)
<ahoneybun> *members
<popey> mariogrip, I told dpm - he's in a bar and having a drink on to celebrate :D
<ahoneybun> we should info the UWNL
<ahoneybun> ubuntu-news
<mariogrip> popey: Awesome :D :D
<ChloeWolfieGirl> :D
<Kilos> night everyone
<mhall119> congratulations mariogrip
<mariogrip> Thanks mhall119 :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-01-03
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
<gaughen> so I think I'm running the meeting today, although it says chair is rbasak
<caribou> \o
<jgrimm> o/
<jgrimm> thanks gaughen
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  3 16:00:37 2017 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jgrimm> indeed, it doesn't look like the wiki page is updated.  fwiw, there were no action items last time
<jgrimm> gaughen, ^^
<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gaughen> cool, thank you jgrimm
<gaughen> no action items, moving on
<jgrimm> :)
<gaughen> #topic Zesty Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Zesty Development
<gaughen> feature freeze is Feb 16, that's the closest date I see
<jgrimm> going to be a quiet meeting
<gaughen> #subtopic blueprints
<gaughen> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<gaughen> jgrimm, and that's all right by me!
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> nothing really new to point out there. good progress
<gaughen> not sure anything worth noting
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<gaughen> caribou, any words today?
<caribou> LP: #1447715 - dhclient -6: Can't bind to dhcp address: Cannot assign requested address
<caribou> LP: #1452202 - ubuntu preseed install fails to set a hostname
<caribou> LP: #1579609 - os-prober bug resulting in possible FS corruption
<caribou> LP: #1621340 - [SRU]'multipath -r' causes /dev/mapper/<wwid> being removed
<caribou> LP: #1640382 - Segfault event notifier because of race condition
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1447715 in ifupdown (Ubuntu Xenial) "dhclient -6: Can't bind to dhcp address: Cannot assign requested address" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447715
<caribou> LP: #1642903 - introduce disk/by-id (model_serial) symlinks for NVMe drives
<caribou> LP: #1648901 - SPNEGO crash on mechanism failure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1452202 in netcfg (Debian) "ubuntu preseed install fails to set a hostname" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1452202
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579609 in os-prober (Ubuntu Xenial) "os-prober bug resulting in possible FS corruption" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1621340 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU]'multipath -r' causes /dev/mapper/<wwid> being removed" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1640382 in Ubuntu Cloud Archive "Segfault event notifier because of race condition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1640382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1642903 in systemd (Ubuntu Trusty) "introduce disk/by-id (model_serial) symlinks for NVMe drives" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1642903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1648901 in krb5 (Ubuntu Xenial) "SPNEGO crash on mechanism failure" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1648901
<caribou> those are the SRU under our radar
<gaughen> any comments on them?
<gaughen> anybody?
<jgrimm> all good
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<gaughen> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<gaughen> powersj, the mic is yours
<powersj> Catching up on bugs and email, then announcing the new integration tests as a part of cloud-init and reviewing wes' merge.
<jgrimm> \o/
<gaughen> woot! on the new integration tests!!!!
<gaughen> moving on
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<gaughen> well I see neither of these kernel folks here
<gaughen> so I'm just moving on
<cpaelzer> not around yet today
<gaughen> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
<gaughen> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> nada
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gaughen> any open discussions for today/
<gaughen> ?
<gaughen> 3
<gaughen> 2
<gaughen> 1
<jgrimm> :)
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> record time
<gaughen> next week, same time, same place - jamespage is scheduled to chair but we should probably find a replacement as he'll be in cpt
<gaughen> I could leave rbasak in the lead since he didn't move himself :-)
<jgrimm> gaughen, agreed
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  3 16:07:14 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-01-03-16.00.moin.txt
<gaughen> done.
<jgrimm> thanks gaughen
<powersj> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
<gaughen> you are very welcome, have a great day all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-01-05
<chiluk> morning folks
 * slangasek waves
<barry> o/
<sil2100> o/
<xnox> o/
<gaughen> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  5 16:02:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<caribou> \o
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> caribou robru sil2100 mwhudson xnox infinity cyphermox chiluk tdaitx doko bdmurray slangasek barry
<chiluk> o/
 * chiluk is glad he's not first
<caribou> short week due to new year
<xnox> barry wins =)
<barry> wake me up before i go go
<caribou> investigating LP: #953875 still problematic on Trusty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 953875 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Encrypted swap no longer mounted at bootup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953875
<robru> sorry not ready
<caribou> uploading new makedumpfile 1.6.1-1 to Debian, to be synced to Zesty
<caribou> some more work on the sosreport charm
<caribou> (done)
<sil2100> robru: ok, I'll go before you then
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination
<sil2100> - Investigating broken images for frieza_arm64 and cooler_arm64
<sil2100>   * Bisecting changes, gathering logs, filling bugs
<sil2100>   * Re-spinning images after new fixed lxc landed (thanks stgraber!)
<sil2100> - Reading up on SRU review processes and tools
<sil2100> - Investigating broken ubuntu-budgie flavor builds
<sil2100>   * Big thanks to Colin for creating the required tasks, waiting for a migration run
<sil2100> - system-image config cleanup, redirecting device tarballs for after John's leave
<sil2100> - Poking around the blocked ubuntu-keyboard in zesty-proposed
<sil2100> - Looking into ubuntu-image size and offset <1MiB handling
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> s390x srus uploads (a few are in the unapproved queue)
<xnox> upstart session porting uploads
<xnox> fixing pm-management in subordinate systemd
<xnox> porting systemd-shim ntpd to subordinate systemd
<xnox> (short week monday was nyd substitute day)
<xnox> EOF
<slangasek> chiluk:
<chiluk> CORE DEV APPLICATION - please endorse me. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/chiluk/CoreDevApplication  .  Comments/suggestsions/advice also welcome.
<chiluk> LP#1650067 - qemu - Actively working on backporting patches to error with fatal instead of abort under memory constrainted conditions.
<chiluk> LP#1647389 - qemu- I haven't yet determined the correct special sauce to reproduce this.  It appears that the issue may still exist upstream. See https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2016-12/msg02066.html
<chiluk> --done--
<robru> ok I'm ready
<robru> (1/14) lp:britney
<robru> (2/14) * disable piuparts
<robru> (3/14) * fix debian tests
<robru> (4/14) lp:bileto
<robru> (5/14) * some style tweaks
<robru> (6/14) * Proxy access to swift excuses files. (LP: #1629969)
<robru> (7/14) * Fix filterdiff globbing (LP: #1651790)
<robru> (8/14) * Use larger textarea for sources list.
<robru> (9/14) * Identify when dest version is higher than ours (LP: #1627636)
<robru> (10/14) * Stop redirecting to ambiguous "latest" endpoint (fixed job log refresh races)
<robru> (11/14) * Abort if target trunk is not writable by us.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629969 in Bileto "Bileto should proxy access to britney excuses files" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629969
<robru> (12/14) * Notice new diffs at end of diff job (LP: #1649595)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1651790 in Bileto "bileto packaging diffs include anything that has 'debian' as a subpath" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651790
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1627636 in Bileto ""Successfully built" status appears on silo which needs to be rebuilt" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1649595 in Bileto "status at end of diff job fails to notice new diffs" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649595
<barry> chiluk: nice!
<chiluk> barry endorse PLEASE!
<chiluk> I set low expectations, and will be pleasantly surprised if I get approved.
<sil2100> chiluk: wow, that's a LOT of comments! Nice ;)
<chiluk> sil2100: we have a large team.
<chiluk> some are community folks though..
<chiluk> I tend to do talks at the meetups in Austin.
<bdmurray> whoopsie daisy!
<robru> (let me know if my paste got cut off...(
<barry> chiluk: every bit helps
<bdmurray> took over the ~apport user from pitti
<bdmurray> untagged elementary bug reports as need-amd64-retrace
<bdmurray> worked on having apport use gdb from a release sandbox
<bdmurray> tested nvidia-304 driver from PPA (LP: #1639180)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1639180 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-304 (Ubuntu Xenial) "no login possible after update to nvidia 304.132" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1639180
<bdmurray> created a test case for update-manager bug (LP: #1548425)
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for update-manager bug (LP :#1548425) to X queue
<bdmurray> submitted unattended-upgrades mp to fix dry-run and marking packages for deletion
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1548425 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in check_hovering(): 'tuple' object has no attribute 'get_tags'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548425
<bdmurray> setup sponsoring report code to run as ubuntureports on cranberry
<bdmurray> irc discussion re: release task nomination and targetting
<bdmurray> irc discussion with kamal regarding errors and a python crash from awscli
<bdmurray> â done
<doko> bdmurray, went ahead?
<doko> - GCC 6.3.0 release packaged
<doko> - binutils 2.28 branch packaged
<doko> - GCC 7 updated
<doko> - bootstrapping rustc
<doko> - made LLVM 3.9 the default, demoted two LLVM versions, now only having 3.9 in main
<doko> - merges, MIRs, ...
<doko> (done)
<barry> slangasek?
<barry> short week back after holidays
<barry> debuntu: xonsh dm --allow (and moderately investigate failures); LP: #1642723 & python-webencodings 0.5-2; LP: #1647031; LP: #1654025; investigate pycurl test flakiness; investigate python-bleach failure w/newer html5lib (https://github.com/mozilla/bleach/issues/217)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1642723 in python-webencodings (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-webencodings" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1642723
<barry> other: PEP 538 (C locale coercion proposal) reading & review; pycon 2017 registration; start reviewing newpitti candidates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647031 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolvedâs 127.0.0.53 server does not follow CNAME records" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647031
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654025 in Auto Package Testing "trusty/armhf dkms tests are killing workers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654025
<barry> --done--
<slangasek>  * happy new year!
<slangasek>  * short week; Monday was a bank holiday, Friday traveling to Cape Town for sprint
<slangasek>  * reviewing applications for open position
<slangasek>  * systemd bugfixes: LP: #1642903 uploaded to trusty, LP: #1647485 under discussion upstream, LP: #1647031 needs fixing in zesty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1642903 in systemd (Ubuntu Trusty) "introduce disk/by-id (model_serial) symlinks for NVMe drives" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1642903
<slangasek> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647485 in systemd (Ubuntu) "NVMe symlinks broken by devices with spaces in model or serial strings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647031 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolvedâs 127.0.0.53 server does not follow CNAME records" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647031
<doko> why do others go to Cape Town in summer? /me remembers freezing at DebConf ...
<sil2100> Oh, forgot to mention: tomorrow is a national holiday in Poland and I took a holiday for Monday next week
<xnox> doko, debconf planning sucks =)
<xnox> doko, i bet it will be freezing in canada too
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<slangasek> doko: I saw llvm-toolchain-3.8 wanting to be repromoted; are you handling that?
<doko> slangasek: that's the pocl recommends. the MIR is incomplete anyway. and pocl doesn't seem to be ported to 3.9 yet
<barry> slangasek: should we bump up LP: #1647031 and revert?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647031 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolvedâs 127.0.0.53 server does not follow CNAME records" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647031
<slangasek> barry: yes, that was my suggestion yesterday :)
<barry> slangasek: yep, in a pvt channel :)   i'll test that out today
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> barry: thanks :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<sil2100> Can someone promote/demote some ubuntu-keyboard binaries to unblock it from -proposed? :)
<slangasek> sil2100: taking
<sil2100> slangasek: thanks! It's either demoting ubuntu-keyboard-esperanto to universe or promoting all ubuntu-keyboard binaries to main
<slangasek> sil2100: done
<sil2100> Or the poor package will stay in limbo forever
<sil2100> Thanks!
<slangasek> sil2100: it's demoting, per http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed
 * sil2100 is done
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  5 16:29:12 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-01-05-16.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<barry> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-01-08
<TheFocus> General advise... Any ideas how to reverse this command: sudo chown -R USER /etc
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-01-03
<HasV3158> âââââââââââââ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSqvukvpfnfm: ejat FourDollars oSoMoN ââââââââââââââââ
<HasV3158> âââââââââââââ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSrhfhao: sbeattie flexiondotorg tyhicks âââââââââââââ
<HasV3158> ââââââââââââ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSxhbfbmawhu: JanC tribaal cydizen âââââââââââââââââ
<HasV3158> âââââââââââââââââ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILStqnnpuoy: sforshee abrody gaughen âââââââââââ
<HasV3158> ââââââââââââââ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSjbnwav: gsilvapt oSoMoN ogra_ âââââââââââââââ
<HasV3158> âââââââââââââââââ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSobjcj: Hedged-Handful jamespage ghostcube ââââââââââââ
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-01-04
 * slangasek waves
<philroche> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  4 16:04:36 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<rbalint> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> bdmurray rcj Odd_Bloke sil2100 infinity tribaal cyphermox slangasek mwhudson doko xnox fginther tdaitx philroche rbalint
<slangasek> bdmurray: hello
<bdmurray> email catch up and review
<bdmurray> SRU verified unattended-upgrades for Z, A (LP: #1269177)
<bdmurray> pinged / discussed with SRU team about apport security regression (LP: #1733366)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1269177 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Bionic) "Running 'unattended-upgrades --dry-run' reboots the machine" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1269177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1733366 in Apport "apport crashed with FileNotFoundError in is_container_pid(): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/proc/11102/ns/pid'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1733366
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for u-r-u Prompt=normal bionic bug (LP: #1740523)
<bdmurray> tested LP: #1718497 - it's fine
<bdmurray> modifications to apport to speed it up
<bdmurray> arranged travel to sprint
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1740523 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "Prompt value is set to "normal" instead of "lts" after upgrading to 18.04" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740523
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718497 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "checkFreeSpace says it checks /var but may not really" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718497
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> rcj:
<rcj> * vacation
<rcj> * catch up from vacation
<rcj> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * HIGHLIGHT: HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Odd_Bloke> * Uhh...
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> tribaal:
<tribaal> * Vagrant SRU changes for the xenial image under way! Waiting for verification.
<tribaal> * Partner work.
<tribaal> * Too much to eat, too much to drink, family time
<tribaal> (done)
<slangasek>  * happy new year
<slangasek>  * looking at build failures in bionic (avahi, a couple others)
<slangasek>  * tracking BIOS-breaking kernel issue
<slangasek>  * discussions around nvidia packaging for GPU computing
<slangasek>  * the embargo is broken and everything is on fire
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - prepared and started test rebuilds
<doko> - now evaluating GCC and binutils regressions
<doko> - some MIRs and NEW processing
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> fixing migrations/tests => systemd migrated all by itself
<xnox> working on s390-tools v2+ upgrade
<xnox> libsecommp update released, thank you all
<xnox> working on fixing s390x cloud-test-framework failures
<xnox> catch up on systemd upstream work + discussions
<xnox> (done)
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Image build system vanguard.
<fginther> * Implementing some jenkins job cleanup.
<fginther> (done)
<philroche> * Ate all the mince pies
<philroche> * Cloud image boot speed testing
<philroche> (done)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * livecd-rootfs changes
<rbalint> * internal testbed setup
<rbalint> * Debian:
<rbalint>   - kodi new upstream & bug gardening
<rbalint>   - libcec upload for GCC transition
<rbalint>   - first release of debian-dad
<rbalint> (done)
<doko> rbalint: which GCC transition?
<rbalint> GCC-7
<rbalint> #853485
<rbalint> this is now fixed in unstable
<slangasek> rbalint: ah, so this was FTBFS in Ubuntu w/ gcc-7 up to now?
<slangasek> and fixed via Debian upload
<slangasek> any other questions re: status
<slangasek> ?
 * sil2100 missed the meeting
<slangasek> sil2100: want to give your status now? :)
<sil2100> I could, but I don't have it ready! Let me prepare it and paste
<sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews/releases
<sil2100> - Looking at some NBS packages (lib64expat1, poking gitweb for lynx-cur)
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Investigating autopkgtest failures on bionic armhf - hard to investigate
<sil2100>   * Fixing new PEP-8 issue in bionic
<sil2100> - Preparing new google-cloud-sdk
<sil2100> - Other stuff
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> Oh, and I was syncing up regarding the xenial HWE stack
<slangasek> ok, any other questions on status?
<bdmurray> nope
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<slangasek> anything needing triage here?
<bdmurray> bug 1739531?
<ubottu> bug 1739531 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-collect SHOULD NOT collect gnome-shell command history and favorites" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739531
<slangasek> huh
<slangasek> bdmurray: +1 for taking that one
<bdmurray> okay, I'll target it to the release then
<slangasek> sorry, already did
<slangasek> any others?
<bdmurray> nothing else new per se
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<bdmurray> bug 1738517 is a duplicate and I'll sort that out
<ubottu> bug 1738517 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update-manager does not expand details on progress on 17.10 & 18.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738517
<doko> merges ...
<doko> we have a lot ones still assigned to former team members
<doko> please could we assign these to current team members?
<rbalint> i'm in for that
<slangasek> doko: which ones do you mean?  are they ones the team owns (foundations-bugs listed on https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html)?
<doko> well, ba rry, cj watson, ...
<slangasek> what /packages/ do you mean
<doko> I don't have a list
<doko> yes, owner is foundations-bugs
<slangasek> barry's name is only on aptdaemon; we would preferably be migrating from aptdaemon to packagekit, not merging it
<bdmurray> Is there even anything to merge with that?
<nacc> it's only in oldstablle (per rmadison)
<slangasek> doko: so, we need tooling to show people what work is yet to be done.  do you want to fix grep-merges to work by subscribing team name?
<rbalint> doko, slangasek: how about about a blog post on planet.ubuntu.com calling for everyone to mark their merges if they want to work on them with a two weeks timeout?
<doko> I can try to do that, but it would be low priority for me before I vanish at the end of next week
<doko> for two weeks
<slangasek> rbalint: I don't think that's the problem; we're talking about packages that have been unmerged for some time already, and core-devs should always feel free to grab them with an advisory ping to the person who touched it last
<xnox> slangasek, "migrating from aptdaemon to packagekit, not merging it" -> is that hapeening?
<rbalint> slangasek: i would do a broadcast ping then pick everything unmarked
<doko> ugh, blogging about a team task?
<slangasek> I don't think that buys us anything as a process to have a one-time ping
<rbalint> slangasek: we would not have to ping people individually and may raise awareness for the merges if we mention universe as well
<slangasek> rbalint: you are free to do this, but I don't think you want to blog about this repeatedly, and I don't think the problem doko is raising is a single point in time issue
<slangasek> anything else on this?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  4 16:46:59 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-01-04-16.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<flexiondotorg> wxl jose ahoneybun elopio o/
<ahoneybun> here sorry
<wxl> ah good
<wxl> we were just discussing whether or not we're having it
<wxl> so let's do it
<wxl> one sec
<ahoneybun> the meeting?
<wxl> meanwhile see agenda https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180104/2793
<ahoneybun> thanks wxl
<wxl> #startmeeting Community Council meeting: 20180104
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  4 17:33:07 2018 UTC.  The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting: 20180104 | Current topic:
<wxl> as aforementioned, agenda is https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180104/2793
<elopio> thanks for preparing it wxl.
<wxl> no problem
<wxl> i'm a little rusty with meetingology so bear with me
<wxl> if there's anything you want to add to the agenda, now's the time. get it in at the bottom
<wxl> #topic Progress from last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting: 20180104 | Current topic: Progress from last meeting
<wxl> #subtopic wiki discussion
<wxl> i believe elacheche (who is currently on the phone) and popey were going to start a discussion about the wiki. i haven't seen anything on the hub yet.
<wxl> perhaps someone else might want to start the discussion and then they can join in later?
<popey> Yeah, it's not happened yet. I'll ping elacheche when they're around and we'll kick it off now the holidays are over
<elopio> I wouldn't feel confident starting this discussion. Looking at how popey handled the hub, I'm happy to wait for when he's ready to start the wiki topic.
<wxl> from what i read in the old notes, popey, it seems like you wanted to kind of provide an exhaustive history. maybe a simple summary might be a good place to start?
<popey> Sure
<wxl> in any case, it's obviously tabled, so we'll just deal with it next time
<wxl> i'll move on unless someone else has thoughts on this?
<wxl> #action @popey will produce a basic post on the Hub about the wiki, with a more extensive one to follow
<meetingology> ACTION: @popey will produce a basic post on the Hub about the wiki, with a more extensive one to follow
<wxl> #subtopic LoCo Council update
<wxl> AFAIK nothing to tell here. I've watched over them a bit and they seem to be doing great. Had a huge number of re-verifications to deal with and dealt with them marvelously.
<wxl> any questions? otherwise i'm moving on.
<wxl> #subtopic 2018 Q1 events
<wxl> this one's yours ahoneybun
<elopio> wxl: maybe, just one action to invite them to the next meeting? Or the one in feb.
<ahoneybun> are we talking about conferences? or what?
<wxl> elopio: to explicitly deal with some particular thing or just to hang out?
<wxl> no, i think it's more about planning and announcing ubuntu events. let me dig through logs
<flexiondotorg> I've just added an agenda item about LFNW.
<elopio> wxl: just hang out.
<wxl> #action @wxl to invite LoCo Council to next meeting to hang out
<meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to invite LoCo Council to next meeting to hang out
<ahoneybun> are we planning more UbuCons or maybe one at LFNW with that new agenda item?
<wxl> oh i'm sorry
<wxl> this is UCADay
<wxl> maybe?
<wxl> wait
<wxl> sorry this confusing :)
<ahoneybun> no that happened already
<wxl> look here https://community.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-20171207/2851
<wxl> there's an action item that mentions our next item and has you associated with it ahoneybun and also includes an item to "plan and list global evenets for the 2018 Q1"
<wxl> so that may not actually be yours
<ahoneybun> ahhh
<wxl> but it's not clear anyone actually owned that
<wxl> looking at the logs https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-12-07-17.01.moin.txt
<ahoneybun> I think it's a group action
<wxl> it seems there was a discussion about Global Jams, etc.
<ahoneybun> mine was the monthly community member highlight
<wxl> yeah we'll get to that next :)
<ahoneybun> yay Global James
<jose> yep so
<jose> last time we discussed having a 'featured event of the quarter'
<wxl> is there someone that can at least produce a list of all of teh potential events so we can start working on planning?
<ahoneybun> I don't have much since I've been out of it for life
<wxl> that might be more managable
<wxl> we can take them one at a time
<jose> basically, we'd source a list of events from the LC and then we'd work with the LC to make one of them the 'featured event of the quarter'
<ahoneybun> +1 featured events of the quarter
<jose> do we want to start that for Q1? or push it to Q2?
<wxl> well i'm also thinking it's probably on our shoulders to announce the larger events
<wxl> like Global Jam itself, for example
<jose> if we want to start it for Q1, does the LC have enough events or a global event we can feature?
<jose> UGJs are on the LC
<wxl> ah and you mean events in general
<wxl> such as Ubuntu Hours, install fests, general get togethers
<elopio> personally, I would like to focus next on translations.
<elopio> I can plan something for march or april, together with the locos.
<wxl> ok well let's not jumble up too much here
<jose> yep, leaving planning aside
<jose> 1.- can the LC provide a list of global events happening soon
<jose> if not, then let's push it for Q2
<wxl> +1
<wxl> jose, would you get in touch with them and get a list?
<jose> if they can, 2.- let's discuss it in the meeting we'll have with them to figure out the featured event of the quarter
<jose> sure
<jose> now, ideally, we'd work on the Q2 event during Q1, Q3 during Q2, and so on
<jose> so we're a tad late, but we can make it work
<wxl> ok
<jose> I'll get the gears moving on my side
<wxl> #action @jose to get the LoCo Council to provide a list of global events happening soon, with the goal of then having the CC picking an event to feature
<meetingology> ACTION: @jose to get the LoCo Council to provide a list of global events happening soon, with the goal of then having the CC picking an event to feature
<wxl> does that wrap up this topic?
<jose> I'd say so
<jose> not much else we can do on it
<wxl> ok
<wxl> now it's time for ahoneybun :)
<wxl> #subtopic monthly community member
<wxl> floor's yours my friend!
<ahoneybun> I've been thinking fo the best way to vote for a community member
<wxl> ooh voting. i like it. involve the community.
<ahoneybun> social might not be the best but it is reachable to more people then mailing list
<elopio> ahoneybun: for january, I suggest we highlight the winners of the google code-in.
<wxl> of course they're likely not members, so that might be a different thing
<ahoneybun> yea we can use jan to get together the voting with social media accounts
<wxl> or do we mean community members (lowercase)?
<elopio> oh, they have to be approved?
<ahoneybun> community members can be non-ubuntu members
<ahoneybun> like gnome or kde or other groups
<wxl> ok yeah i didn't know what we meant
<wxl> i hear "member" and i think "ubuntu member"
<jose> ^ same here
<elopio> voting sounds weird to me. Like, whoever ends up in the second place will be a great contributor and yet she loses.
<wxl> so i mean how DO we pick someone?
<elopio> maybe, we can use social for nominations. And whoever is not selected for a month will be selected for the following one.
<ahoneybun> that could be a way
<jose> but eventually we'll have a long list of people to be nominated 'the following month'
<wxl> yeah we'll have years' worth in a matter of days XD
<ahoneybun> nominate and pick random?
<wxl> i think every month there needs to be a new set of nominations
<elopio> no, we can sort them, depending on what we want to highlight that month
<wxl> it might be good to ensure that we refer a wide range of different members
<wxl> from different places, different contributions, different skills
<wxl> i mean i don't want to see a year's worth of white male developers from the west
<elopio> +1
<wxl> anyone have a problem with us selectively picking and choosing?
<ahoneybun> yea I would like to mix it with people from GNOME, KDE, Docs,
<wxl> certainly different projects!
<wxl> so who wants to orangize the call for people and collecting the list so we can then discuss who to pick?
<elopio> I nominate ahoneybun for that task :)
<wxl> i second that, should he be willing :)
<ahoneybun> I mean I can get into GNOME but not sure about KDE at this point
<wxl> ?
<elopio> ahoneybun: the idea would be to make a call for nomiations on the hub
<wxl> well, at least the hub, if not other social networks
<elopio> we can help you promotiing it, and ask it to be forwarded to the ubuntu social channels.
<wxl> and each call should be a call to ask people to spread the word
<ahoneybun> I don't have social network access to Ubuntu stuff
<ahoneybun> ah
<wxl> yeah, so just make a hub post. that's all. there you go. bite size :)
<ahoneybun> never used the hub before lol
<elopio> also, it would be nice to get some artwork for the call. We can ask eylul, she might be interested to help
<ahoneybun> I can't make a new topic in Annoucements
<wxl> just make it anywhere and ask popey to move it
<popey> +1
<popey> There is an "uncategorized" area
<ahoneybun> I'm there XD
<wxl> #action @ahoneybun to create a hub post call for nominations for monthly community member.
<meetingology> ACTION: @ahoneybun to create a hub post call for nominations for monthly community member.
<wxl> i think it needs to be clear in the post and in social media posts that nominations will ONLY be considered if they're a reply to the hub post
<wxl> i think it's unreasonable to expect that we can monitor all the various different social media avenues
<jose> yeah, however there's a catch with that
<jose> people need to sign up for the hub, which might be discouraging for those who just want to nominate someone
<elopio> we need to encourage people to sign up and use the hub, so +1 on wxl's suggestion
<elopio> and do we make a call for nominations on the first week of each month?
<wxl> but jose brings a valid point. let's also provide the option to send the nomination to the cc list?
<jose> again, I don't like pushing people to use the hub if they don't feel comfortable with it
<jose> especially if they need to sign up and provide information
<wxl> i think encouraging it is not a bad thing
<wxl> requiring it might be
<wxl> we DO want to discourage using a reply on twitter, though, e.g.
<elopio> I am happy requiring it. It's the new center of our community, if somebody wants to be in the community, she should be in the hub.
<jose> I think that might need further discussion
<elopio> I am happy to discuss it too :) Topic for next meeting?
<wxl> for now, let's offer only the two options (hub, cc list) with a preference towards the hub
<jose> sounds good to me
<wxl> something like: "To be considered, nominations must be replies to the post on the Hub (or you can use the CC list if you must)"
<wxl> and the topic for next meeting there is whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication?
<wxl> or is this only within the context of this particular issue?
<elopio> wxl: the former.
<wxl> #action @wxl to add an agenda topic to next meeting concerned whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication, with @elopio and @jose heading up the dicussion
<meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to add an agenda topic to next meeting concerned whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication, with @elopio and @jose heading up the dicussion
<wxl> there
<wxl> ok i'm going to move on unless there are other questions?
<wxl> ahoneybun: just make sure to see our notes above about what qualifies as a valid nomination when you do the post.
<ahoneybun> still working on it as a text doc for right now
<wxl> take your time
<wxl> #subtopic Google Code-In update
<ahoneybun> we can make a pastebin or something to live edit
<wxl> i assume this would be yours, elopio ?
<wxl> i know i can tell you i've been BUSY with it personally as a mentor
<wxl> after i fixed the Lubuntu QA tasks, balloons asked me to fix all of the other ones. being non-beginner tasks, we'll get a lot more of them, which is good
<wxl> some comments on the IRC channel from students that are thankful for how much they've learned
<wxl> lots of CoC signing and bugs reported on it (more about that later)
<elopio> sorry. Um, yes, we have more than 500 tasks completed
<wxl> i *STILL* have tasks to add
<elopio> that's amazing. But it's a lot of work for the mentors, I'm happy that the contest ends soon.
<wxl> me, too
<wxl> the holidays were hard. lots of mentors gone.
<wxl> the 15th is the deadline for claiming a new task deadline and the contest ends on the 17th
<elopio> I will contact the participants for snapcraft to offer them follow up mentorships. More free form, to let them choose the path that they want to follow
<wxl> i've been doing some encouraging in that regard, at least for Lubuntu and ISO testing/QA in general
<elopio> to the other contributors for ubuntu in general, I think we need to encourage them to get in touch to their closest loco, sign the coc and participate on the hub.
<elopio> I'll see if google can send me the emails of everybody who participated.
<wxl> 579 is the official number btw
<wxl> Wikimedia is at 575
<elopio> I would like to do something nice for the winners, so I will nominate them for contributors of the month on ahoneybun's post, as soon as they are announced.
<popey> We have another 20+ tasks to add. hopefully tomorrow
<elopio> maybe invite them to ubuntu hour, or even get a short interview with them for insights. I'm not sure what's required for that last one, but we can see.
<wxl> hm someone showed me an unoficial ranking
<wxl> and now i can't find it
<wxl> https://gci-leaders.netlify.com
<elopio> also, we got a good bunch of new snaps packaged. I need to make a summary of that. And, a bunch of translations for the videos, I would like to keep working on this because there are many more languages to add.
<wxl> we are ranked 7th for orgs
<popey> I asked stgraber if we could use this as an opportunity to get lxd translated, he agreed, we need to make a task for that
<wxl> (out of 25)
<elopio> popey: awesome, let me know if you need a hand with that.
<wxl> i would encourage all of you whether mentors or not to reach out to your community and see if they have tasks to add.
<popey> elopio: i do! :D
<wxl> #action EVERYONE to reach out to their community for any other ideas for Google Code-In tasks.
<meetingology> ACTION: EVERYONE to reach out to their community for any other ideas for Google Code-In tasks.
<wxl> anything else?
<popey> elopio: would you have time to write the text in a doc (or directly in code-in) for a task for lxd? if so I can review and publish?
<popey> i know we have a couple of participants ready to take it
<wxl> oh i guess i have one other thing
<elopio> popey: let's talk after the meeting, because I don't know if this is for the docs, or for the strings in weblate
<wxl> do we have any students that are waiting >24h for a reply?
<popey> elopio: i need to go afk after this meeting, but to answer your question, yes - it's weblate
<elopio> popey: ok, I'll prepare the task.
<popey> Magic, thanks
<wxl> nevermind answered my own question
<wxl> we're good
<wxl> moving on unless anything else..
<wxl> #subtopic report on why CC list is not moderated
<wxl> this one is yours jose
<jose> I talked with a former CC member
<jose> basically, it's incredibly discouraging for a community member, especially one who gathered up the courage to email the cc and has a problem/concern, to get a 'your message is moderated' email
<jose> even if there's a message in there, it will not help the stingy feeling that you tried to contact the governing council and got temporarily silenced due to moderation
<wxl> could we not change the mailman message so it says "we've received your request and will get back to you immediately?"
<jose> not sure, and that'd be on IS to push the change
<jose> plus, I haven't received any spam emails on the cc mailing list, at least not for a while
<wxl> well i think mailman might expose that
<wxl> jeez i get them all the time ugh
<jose> have you got any recently?
<wxl> yeah
<wxl> pretty much every day
<wxl> admittedly, i can do some spam filtering, but then there's the likelihood of false positives
<popey> If you're using gmail you rarely see them
<popey> if you're on some other mail system, they often get through
<wxl> yeah i'm not on Gmail
<jose> anyways, that's the reason why the CC mailing list isn't moderated, and I agree with those statements
<elopio> another item that can be fixed by encouraging people to talk to us through the hub :D This is a magical hammer that fixes everything.
<jose> people need the ability to report in confidence
<popey> Not for private conversations
<jose> plus, again, it requires you to create an account
<wxl> well on that topic flexiondotorg did you look into the possibility of using the hub as an entry point for the cc?
<jose> which adds a barrier for getting to us
<wxl> which is potentially the same problem
<jose> I would put that one under a vote as well. we need to think out of all angles, and the hub just adds hassle and removes privacy
<elopio> popey: there are private group chats, I've just noticed when somebody send a message to the two of us
<wxl> well i'm not easily finding a solution to mailman
<wxl> but i could propose it to IS
<wxl> if we had a user-friendly moderation message, would anyone still have issues with turning moderation on?
<jose> I wouldn't like for it to be moderated again. it'd have to be super-duper-extremely friendly
<jose> otherwise, we just add friction to our communication flow
<wxl> well it's probably all for naught but this is driving me nuts so i'll put it on my list
<wxl> #action @wxl to explore with IS the possibility of modifying the default moderation message
<meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to explore with IS the possibility of modifying the default moderation message
<wxl> anything else on this?
<wxl> #subtopic Hub federation to Planet
<wxl> flexiondotorg you had this on your list. any new news?
<wxl> anyone else know anything about it?
<wxl> #action @flexiondotorg to report back on the possibility of federating the Hub to Planet Ubuntu
<meetingology> ACTION: @flexiondotorg to report back on the possibility of federating the Hub to Planet Ubuntu
<wxl> moving on then
<wxl> #subtopic CC resources
<wxl> i believe elacheche was going to compile a list of cc resources
<elopio> instead of direct federetion, we could include our topics from the hub in the weekly newsletter, and that on the planet
<jose> let's push it off for next meeting?
<wxl> he's not here so i'll table this unless anyone else wants to add to it?
<elopio> sorry, my conection is dslow
<jose> UWN is not being published anymore
<wxl> it's not???
<jose> no, hasn't been since Oct
<wxl> wow you're right
<wxl> i'll follow up on that
<wxl> #action @wxl to check in on the status of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter
<meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to check in on the status of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter
<jose> I can explain why, no need to
<elopio> tsimonq2: was asking for help on the hub. We can give him a hand.
<jose> publishing a weekly newsletter requires a lot of hands
<jose> and it's not possible to do it with the current level of contributors
<jose> we need steady contributors who can help every week, and we don't have them
<wxl> well, i regularly speak with tsimonq2 so i can check in. he was pretty adamant about making things happen.
<wxl> maybe we need to do some stuff in general to help bring contributors
<jose> of course, we'd like to make things happen but unless we get those contributors, it's impossible
<wxl> again, i'll check in with him directly
<jose> and again, needs to be people who'll be willing to help in a weekly basis, not as a one-off thing
<jose> feel free to
<wxl> ok moving on then
<wxl> almost done with old stuff!
<wxl> #subtopic GSoC application
<wxl> anyone on top of this?
<wxl> popey?
<wxl> elopio?
<elopio> popey: should we apply?
<wxl> is there a deadline for application?
<elopio> oh, he said he was going to leave soon. I got a little scared with the amount of work that this things require. But I'm in if popey and flexiondotorg are in.
<wxl> can you find out the deadline, elopio, and report back? (not now i mean, but not wait until next meeting)
<popey> Heh
<popey> Dunno what the requirements are for gsoc
<popey> I know flexiondotorg has mentored on it before
<elopio> deadlinne is jan 23rd
<popey> Oh my
<wxl> that's pretty darn close.
<elopio> applications opened today
<wxl> i'll make an action for you three to figure it out XD
<wxl> #action @popey @elopio @flexiondotorg to put their heads together to evaluate the possibility of applying for GSoC.
<meetingology> ACTION: @popey @elopio @flexiondotorg to put their heads together to evaluate the possibility of applying for GSoC.
<wxl> and i'll put something on the agenda to see where we're at for next meeting
<wxl> if we don't have it figured out by then it might be too late but c'est la vie
<popey> I'd start a thread on the hub
<popey> Like, now
<popey> Like I did for code in
<popey> We can have the discussion there
<wxl> well i'll let you guys fight over which one of you does that XD
<popey> NO CARRIER...
<wxl> hahahahahhaha
<elopio> popey: good call. I'll check the requirements
<wxl> ok, i'll move on for the time being since there's not really much to discuss about this
<wxl> one more piece of old stuff
<tsimonq2> yo
<wxl> tsimonq2: we'll talk later. don't sweat it :)
<tsimonq2> wxl: ok
<wxl> #subtopic changing meeting time and/or duration
<wxl> so we should vote on this or what?
<wxl> i'd love to make this official.
<jose> we have 5 votes, with a span of +2
<jose> we need another 2 +2s
 * wxl sighs
<wxl> we have votes from you and me, jose?
<jose> one sec, I'm checking again just in case
<jose> sorry, 4 votes, with a span of +2
<jose> elopio, elacheche, you and me
<jose> marcoceppi, ahoneybun, flexiondotorg and sabdfl haven't voted
<wxl> so that leaves ahoneybun flexiondotorg and marcoceppi (and sabdfl)
<jose> yes
<wxl> and we need +2 more
<marcoceppi> o/
<wxl> what if everyone votes and we don't get it?
<jose> my reason for the 0, same as elacheche, is we should have the 2h slot in case we need it, but we should have flexible times and if we can finish it in 1h, we do it
<wxl> oh hi marcoceppi good to see you. you should join the UCC channel, btw.
<jose> if everyone votes and we don't get it, we stick to the 2h slot, and again, we finish up as fast as we reasonably can
<wxl> well i mean the question is whether or not we should have a minimum of 1h, no?
<jose> having 2h doesn't mean we have to use all of it :)
<jose> (we're over our 2h slot right now)
<wxl> and do we also have any votes about moving it one hour ahead?
<wxl> s/ahead/later/
<jose> just two I believe
<wxl> #action @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @marcoceppi @sabdfl to vote on whether or not to change the 2 hour meeting to 1 hour
<meetingology> ACTION: @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @marcoceppi @sabdfl to vote on whether or not to change the 2 hour meeting to 1 hour
<wxl> who's left?
<jose> elopio and elacheche voted, the rest hasn't
<jose> 2 votes with a span of +1
<wxl> oh well it was my proposal so you can put me down for a +1 :)
<marcoceppi> +1
<wxl> marcoceppi: that's for which one?
<marcoceppi> hah
 * marcoceppi quits
<jose> ok, and I'll go with a -1 for moving 17 to 18 utc
<marcoceppi> I'm fine moving to a 1 hour meeting
<jose> so, moving: 4 votes with a span of +1, duration: 5 votes with a span of +3
<wxl> ok so
<jose> marcoceppi: any votes on moving the meeting from 17 UTC to 18 UTC?
<wxl>   #action @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @sabdfl to vote on changing the meeting time from 17 to 18 UTC
<wxl> right?
<jose> depends on if he answers right now or not :)
<wxl> the only problem with this is that if we don't move it, at least during teh winter, i am most likely going to be late
<ahoneybun> I'll be at work either way lol
<jose> and that's also the issue, DST doesn't apply for everyone around the world
<wxl> yeah...
<jose> ahoneybun: so, 0 for moving times?
<wxl> #action @marcoceppi @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @sabdfl to vote on changing the meeting time from 17 to 18 UTC
<meetingology> ACTION: @marcoceppi @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @sabdfl to vote on changing the meeting time from 17 to 18 UTC
<wxl> let's just move on
<wxl> we can do this async
<wxl> #topic Review Code of Conduct bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting: 20180104 | Current topic: Review Code of Conduct bugs
<wxl> i was hoping we could do this last time
<wxl> get rid of the dead wood, as it were, to make room for GCI
<jose> tbh I'd say let's call it a meeting and push it over, put it on top for the next meeting
<jose> we're 30 over and participation has declined
<wxl> c'est la vie then
<wxl> we really need to start dealing with this old stuff.
<elopio> wxl: a couple of actions: remember elacheche to publish the summary of the meetings he lead.
<wxl> elopio: he already did afaik
<elopio> wxl: and catch up with you on the status of the CoC violations
<wxl> yeah well, that's one we should do privately, ultimately
<wxl> i'll send something to the list about it
<elopio> wxl: I don't see it here: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20171207/2571
<wxl> just cuz there's no need to discuss private issues publicly
<wxl> oh
<wxl> confused about your "it"
<wxl> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-20171207/2851
<elopio> wxl: I meant, I don't see elacheche's summary in there.
<elopio> thanks, I didn't see that one.
<wxl> ok
<wxl> anything else?
<elopio> I would prefer to update the topic instead of creating a new one. wxl: what would you prefer for your summaries?
<wxl> i don't really care, but i guess we didn't really make an HOWTO for the thing so we're just doing whatever seems right XD
<wxl> but that way will fill up the category less
<wxl> so let's do that
<elopio> yep, that's why I'm asking, to start a howto :) If you support elacheche's style, I'll document that. If you prefer the one I was following, that will be the one.
<wxl> we'll do it your way
<wxl> so i'll give you to the TODO on the HOWTO :)
<elopio> ok, so I'll take an action to document how to lead the meetings.
<elopio> and last, wxl, will you lead the next one too?
<wxl> #action @elopio to create a document how to lead the meetings, including dealing with postings and such
<meetingology> ACTION: @elopio to create a document how to lead the meetings, including dealing with postings and such
<wxl> yep
<elopio> :) great
<wxl> ok
<wxl> we done? anyone else?
<elopio> ok, thanks everybody. We are also missing to discuss flexiondotorg's point, maybe we can do that on the hub.
<wxl> shutting it down in
<wxl> 10
<wxl> 9
<wxl> 8
<wxl> 7
<wxl> 6
<wxl> 5
<wxl> 4
<wxl> 3
<wxl> 2
<wxl> 1
<wxl> Â½
<wxl> Â¼
<wxl> â
<wxl> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  4 19:31:24 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-01-04-17.33.moin.txt
 * jose picks up his sword
<popey> wxl: thats the first time I have seen fractions of a countdown and it's now my favo{u}rite thing
<wxl> popey: it's amazing what you can do with a Compose Key :)
<tsimonq2> Hahahahaha :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-01-07
<Bert__> Regarding Infraction points that never expire. I think they should expire after a period of time.
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-01-03
<tsimonq2> No UMB meeting. Cool.
<bashfulrobot> Sweet
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-01-06
<Haunted330> This channel is closed. You are going to have to leave.
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-01-05
<tumbleweed> /5/56
