#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-17
* ajmitch looks around for jbailey 
<dholbach> so how's the universe fixing going?
<ajmitch> it's not
<dholbach> sistpoty: is having fun with seahorse
<dholbach> i'm fiddling with deskbar-applet
<dholbach> that's at least something :)
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> i guess i'll do 3-4 reviews and push somebody else to check the 1-vote-items
* ajmitch is at work, can't spend much time on universe
<dholbach> so elmo will get a final NEW list
<dholbach> and he'll do the apt-get.org import
<ajmitch> scary
<dholbach> and then the rest of time is for FTBFSing
<dholbach> and then the rest of time is for DE-FTBFSing
<ajmitch> when do you want those reviews done?
<dholbach> soonish
<dholbach> dunno
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> we'll just try
<ajmitch> I can work on them in 8 hours
<dholbach> i guess i'll get up at that time again
<dholbach> and do some test-installs
<ajmitch> hm
<dholbach> of the daily-to-get-gold-cd
<ajmitch> sorry I can't help more at the moment
<dholbach> don't worry
<dholbach> you already did a lot in this cycle
* ajmitch needs to upload a couple of packages still for universe
<ajmitch> finish off a postinst for socks4, and upload gringotts..
<ajmitch> oh, and fix up python-4suite having missing files
<dholbach> oh i see
<ajmitch> those are the ones currently open in screen ;)
<ajmitch> and look at an apache pam module..
* ajmitch has a list on tomboy at home of things to do asap
<dholbach> i'm not pushing you :))
<ajmitch> I need a good push though
<ajmitch> I haven't done much in this last week
<ajmitch> 1 upload in the last 3 days, I think :)
<dholbach> "not much time left" should be good enough - push-wise
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> what shall i say?
<dholbach> not much uploading/fixing
<dholbach> more bug triaging
<ajmitch> 'get moving you slackers!'
<ajmitch> ?
<tseng> you assigned me like 10 bugs
<tseng> that wont be fixed
<tseng> good job
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> sorry for that
<ajmitch> yay, launchpad system errors again
* ajmitch can't view motu or mono assignedbugs pages
<sistpoty> ajmitch: would you mind uploading umfpack for rebuild? (builds fine on i386)
<ajmitch> hm?
<ajmitch> you can't upload?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no, i'm no motu yet ;)
<dholbach> it's a shame
<ajmitch> how annoying
<sistpoty> last TB had no quorum
* ajmitch is in the middle of a dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> anyone else up for an upload? I have to head out in about 2 minutes
<sistpoty> kk, maybe s.o. else wants to do this? (atlas3 was synced...)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> and I will be back in maybe 2 hours
<dholbach> see you
<ajmitch> right, bbl :)
<Mez> siertart: ping
<Mez> siretart *
<dholbach> he'll be fast asleep
<dholbach> i guess
<sistpoty> Mez: s.th. with revu?
<dholbach> after tough learning
<sistpoty> yep
<Mez> sistpoty - see /query
<sistpoty> Mez: i have no query from you yet...
<Mez> got it now?
<ogra> Mez, are you registered  ?
<sistpoty> yep
<Mez> ogra: wasnt before :D
<ogra> :=
<ogra> )
<dholbach> sistpoty: still want something uploaded?
<HiddenWolf> is any work being done on getting decent lighthttpd in universe?
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: we're some hours before release :)
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, duh. :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: yep... umfpack needs a rebuild due to atlas3 sync
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: it's on revu though
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, i'm asking if work is being done, not if it's for universe. :P
<sistpoty> dholbach: worked fine on i386
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: seems to still need love
<dholbach> sistpoty: rock
<dholbach> sistpoty: still have a look
<dholbach> sistpoty: shall i do the rebuild? have a debdiff?
<Mez> \sh: ping
<dholbach> sistpoty: i'll do it
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, :(
<dholbach> Mez: he's in bed too - had a bad day
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: i suppose it'll go in early dapper
<Mez> ah, fair enough
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, now that's nice
<sistpoty> dholbach: haven't got a debdiff, since it's a mere rebuild only
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> i'll do it
<dholbach> sistpoty: done
<dholbach> i'll do some revuing
<dholbach> crimsun: oooooh, vlc pleasure :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: got some seahorse for you: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/seahorse-0510111910/seahorse_0.8-0ubuntu1_i386.otherextension (<-- deb)
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hey ankur!
<dholbach> man! how are you?
<Unfrgiven> how are you
<dholbach> i asked first
<dholbach> :-p
<Unfrgiven> im doing well... been very busy. was out of town for the weekend... lifes been very busy
<dholbach> of... where have you been?
<dholbach> "town" he says... :)
<dholbach> i've been quite busy too
<dholbach> and still am
<Unfrgiven> melbourne :)
<dholbach> in a couple of hours, we'll release breezy
<Unfrgiven> isnt it the 13th?
<Unfrgiven> thats why im here. ive been frantically trying to wrpa up the intro developer docs
<crimsun> dholbach: yeah, the gotcha will be the the ffmpeg not being enabled with xvid support. Lots of people are whining about it.
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: are they to be shipped as a package?
<Unfrgiven> i need a hand packaging it actually
<Mez> night all
<crimsun> 'night
<dholbach> crimsun: oh yeah, i read abuot it in some bugreport
<dholbach> sleep tight crimsun
<crimsun> (for Mez ;-)
<sistpoty> gn8 crimsun
<Mez> :p
* Mez is going bed, crimsun was saying night to me :d
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> gn8 Mez
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> night Mez :)
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: ideally yes
<dholbach> then better get going :)
<dholbach> you could look at ubuntu-docs package
<dholbach> i can take a peek at it
<Unfrgiven> dholbach:  most of the doc is written up. tonight i want to write up a "worked example" and it should be done
<dholbach> ok
<sistpoty> args... need to reboot... will be back soon
<dholbach> see you sistpoty
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: i was thinking that it would be good to have the document in iniverse  for breezy. in dapper we should move it to main. what you you think?
<dholbach> sistpoty: seahours looks GOOD
<sistpoty> thx dholbach
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: do you mind doing a review? are you busy atm?
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: yes i am
<dholbach> i could look at the package
<sistpoty> dholbach: i can't verify the bug... is this some gnome extension stuff i don't have (since i run kde)?
<dholbach> but not double check the actual text :(
<dholbach> sistpoty: oh i see
<dholbach> sistpoty: it works for me now
<sistpoty> cool
<Unfrgiven> any other motu free at the moment to do a review?
<dholbach> sistpoty: so if play a bit with it, we should be able to upload
<sistpoty> rock! :)
<sistpoty> <-- is back soon ;)
<Unfrgiven> leave me a message if you can review the intro developer docs. i've got to duck away to a meeting now. will be back soon.
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: you could upload to REVU
<dholbach> so other could take a peek too
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<dholbach> i could upload for you too
<bigcx2> hey all
<dholbach> hi bigcx2
<bigcx2> does anyone in here run amd64
<dholbach> yes
<bigcx2> dholbach: would that be you
<bigcx2> ?
<dholbach> just ask your question
<dholbach> :)
<bigcx2> lol ok
<bigcx2> well i just pulled i release candidate iso off ubuntu's site and it's failing miserably
<bigcx2> for breezy (obviously)
<dholbach> that's not an #ubuntu-motu question
<dholbach> but how does it fail, anyhow?
<bigcx2> yea i figured
<bigcx2> i  was just wonderin if anyone in here got it to work
<bigcx2> umm
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i did
<dholbach> how does it fail?
<ogra> whats the error ?
<bigcx2> it fails when debootstrapping
<dholbach> could be a burn
<bigcx2> did you install by cd or did you dist-upgrade?
<bigcx2> i dunno i've burnt a couple
<dholbach> both
<bigcx2> it poops out on the same thing every time
<dholbach> several times
<bigcx2> ok
<bigcx2> it must be bad cd's then
<dholbach> you could try pulling down the daily
<dholbach> the current one
<bigcx2> from where
<ogra> bigcx2, how fast do you burn them ?
<bigcx2> 16x
<ogra> never ever use more than 8x for a bootable that contains compressed files ;)
* ajmitch returns
<ogra> i'd rather take 4x
<bigcx2> hmm never had any problems with stuff like that before
<bigcx2> but it makes sense
<bigcx2> alright i'll give that a shot
<bigcx2> thanks
* bigcx2 hopes he will have a working laptop again
<HiddenWolf> I'm a bit anxious about breezy
<dholbach> why is that?
<HiddenWolf> I'm porting my roomie's old laptop to xubuntu tomorrow
<HiddenWolf> Hoping it'll be well
<HiddenWolf> Now it's got ubuntu-desktop installed, with xfce4 packages and abiword, but it's not ideal.
<sistpoty> re
<dholbach> wb sistpoty
<tritium> hi dholbach
<dholbach> tritium: hi michael
<tritium> hey trulux.  Long time no see
<trulux> tritium: hey!
<ajmitch> hi
<trulux> tritium: how's it going?
<trulux> ajmitch: hi :)
<tritium> hi ajmitch :)
<tritium> trulux, not bad.  You?
<trulux> tritium: tired, getting back to work after flu
<dholbach> i'm tired too
<tritium> oh, sorry to hear you were sick
<dholbach> i'll get to bad
<dholbach> bed
<dholbach> and get back in a couple of hours
<tritium> sleep well, dholbach
<ajmitch> dholbach: insomniac :)
<dholbach> good night guys
<dholbach> :)
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<dholbach> night :)
<bigcx2> night
<Riddell> do we know when universe closes?
<ajmitch> release day
<ajmitch> depends on when the buildds stop
<dholbach> some hours before announce
<dholbach> last time i uploaded until 4 and the release was announced at 10
<ajmitch> whenever they let the last dholbach upload in
<dholbach> but dunno how they handle it this time
<dholbach> haha :)
<ajmitch> anyway, time to see if I have a meeting
<Totem> hello
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: hey dude
<ajmitch> hey Unfrgiven
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: you have docs for us?
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: yes :) you able to review?
<ajmitch> yes, very good to hear of docs  :)
<Unfrgiven> waj	can i e-mail them to you? im currently flat out at work. life has been too hectic lately
<Unfrgiven> ill needf a hand getting them packagfed. as im at work and not able to do them right now.
<Unfrgiven> uggh... what happened there.
<ajmitch> email them
<ajmitch> ajmitch@ubuntu.com
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: address?
<ajmitch> ^
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ta. oooh. have they started out giving ubuntu addresses to members?
<ajmitch> yes
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: sorry im on a slow link atm. messages arriving slowly
<ajmitch> assuming that you've signed the CoC on launchpad
<ajmitch> and are in the ubuntu members group on LP
<ajmitch> so get the CoC signed asap :)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch:  sent the docs
<Unfrgiven> the worked example section is incomplet as is the patching one.
<ajmitch> thanks
<Unfrgiven> but the rest should be fine.
* ajmitch waits for mail to come through
<Totem> can someone tell me how I should request smbfs for breezy?
<ajmitch> what do you mean, request it?
* ogra was wondering too
<ajmitch> seeing as breezy release is ~2 days away
<Totem> well it doesn't exist, and I don't know how to create the package heh
<ajmitch>      smbfs | 3.0.14a-6ubuntu1 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/main Packages
<tseng> you missed the boat
<ogra> its a kernel module
<ajmitch> it's a package as well, and it's in main
<Totem> figures  ;)
<ogra> oh, there is also a package, heh
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah, for smbmount, etc :)
<ajmitch> trips up a few users if they don't have it
* ogra luckily doesnt need such stuff...
<ajmitch> Totem: why did you say it doesn't exist?
<Totem> I must need to update my repsitories list
<Totem> I only see 3.0.10
<ogra> sftp rules ! ssh for everything !!
<ajmitch> Totem: 3.0.10 was current for hoary
<tseng> ogra++
<ajmitch> 3.0.14 has been in breezy since at least may
<Totem> and I upgraded to breezy
<Totem> but I only have one binary repository in my list
* ogra really looks forward to create a tunneled sound solution via ssh for edubuntu dapper :)
<Totem> for breezy that is
<ajmitch> ogra: hm, maybe not :)
<ogra> ajmitch, ?
<Totem> hmm okay I'm an idiot
<Totem> it is my CD!
<ogra> ajmitch, why should i not fix the sound situation in ltsp ?
* ajmitch would wonder about latency trying to play oggs via ssh :)
<Totem> let me rephrase my question: can someone help me add breezy repositories?
<ajmitch> Totem: #ubuntu can help you
<Totem> thanks
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: got the file yet?
<ajmitch> nope
<ogra> ajmitch, if a whole X session gets through a 10Mbit in full color without any slowness... why shouldnt a compressed audio stream do the same ;)
<ajmitch> ogra: small amounts of jitter are noticable with audio
<ajmitch> depends on if you have a few ms of buffering
<ajmitch> and if there's any latency
<ajmitch> I imagine it should be fine
<ogra> ajmitch, imagine to encode all sound in ogg in the server and decode it on the client... theora is able to do such stuff
<plugwash> with audio there is always a comprimise between latency and smoothness
<plugwash> even on a single pc
<plugwash> and it'll be even worse on a network
<ajmitch> I just think it'd show up more on an ssh tunnel
<ogra> yup, you cant make it high quality dolby surround indeed... but all curent solutions for ltsp are worse
<ajmitch> true
<plugwash> ogra you CAN make it high quality surround sound
<plugwash> provided you are prepared to put up with some significant latency in your sound
<ajmitch> and I don't know if I would run audio over my 802.11g network  :)
<ogra> i.e. esd listening on tcp for true wavs ;)
<ogra> ajmitch, you cant even boot ltsp via wlan
<ajmitch> unfortunate :)
<ajmitch> that must be fixed for dapper! :)
<ogra> might be possible with a small image n the client, but no standard ltsp
<ogra> thumb drive boot !!
<ajmitch> yeah!
<ogra> lets make a BOF about it
<ajmitch> I'll boot off my digitial camera!
<ogra> cool idea...
<ajmitch> it has a 256MB card now
<ajmitch> plenty of space for UBZ photos & a kernel
<ogra> i thin 4-5 would suffice for an initramfs
* ajmitch shoudl recycle his 16MB card for testing
<bigcx2> ogra: i burnt it again @ 4x this time and still no luck
<bigcx2> same error
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: try getting the doc from here http://ankur.ath.cx/ubuntu/IntroDeveloperDoc_v0.05.odt
<ogra> what error, at which state of the install ?
<bigcx2> base install....debootstrap returns and error value of 1
<bigcx2> before it fails
<ogra> hmm, but that really sonds corrupt... did you check the md5sum ?
<bigcx2> yea
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: open with what?
<bigcx2> this sucks
<Unfrgiven> ooo.org
<ajmitch> 1.x?
<bigcx2> is there anywhere else i could grab the latest iso from
<ogra> bigcx2, yes, since everyone else seems to happy install the recent isos
<ogra> cdimage.ubuntu.com, i wouldnt know a more recent place
* bigcx2 grumbles
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: since it didn't open with 1.1.4
<bigcx2> alright
<Unfrgiven> ooo.org 2. isnt that standard in breezy?
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: yes, but I'm at work & on windows :P
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: oh right....
<ajmitch> ergh, my mailman upgrade broke
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: i  too am at work. ill do another upload/email tonight when i get home.
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: right now i really should do some work :)
<ajmitch> same
<LaserJock> hiya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> well, I sent an email to upload@ubuntulinux.org but I don't know how long that is supposed to take
<bddebian> LaserJock: Unfortunately at this point in the game they are probably swamped trying to get Breezy out.
<bddebian> Don't feel bad, my machine died today.. :'-(
<LaserJock> oh no
<LaserJock> bddebian: how bad is it?
<ajmitch> swamped is an understatement
<ajmitch> mdz will probably go without sleep until the release, knowing him
<bddebian> Dead HD :-(
<LaserJock> so Breezy is only 2 days away, right?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you lose anything or is it just lost time?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Both :-)
<LaserJock> bummer
<marcin_ant> hmm I'm just realized that I didn't any backups for some (quite long) time...
<ajmitch> bddebian: how dead is it?
<bddebian> I'm putting in the new one right now if that tells you anything :-)
<bddebian> Good time to try the 5.10 CD eh? ;-)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> you still have your gpg key?
<bddebian> Yeah, it's on this machine
<LaserJock> does anybody know why there is libxpm-dev when all the other packages are libxpm4 ?
<ogra> bddebian, burn it to CD before this machine dies too...
<ogra> brb
<bddebian> ogra: Good plan :-)
<bddebian> Nothing quite like downloading 650Mb in about 10 mins.. :-)
<LaserJock> oohh, man sometimes on my computer at school I can get an iso in 1.5 min
<ajmitch> 10 hours is closer to what I'd get
<bddebian> Damn..  T3?
<bddebian> OC48?
<LaserJock> yep, but I have to connect to another close university to get that though
<xhaker> ok.. my university mirrors some distros so i can get even faster than you.. not ubuntu tho
<xhaker> how would i go about approaching them to mirror?
<xhaker> "to mirror" as in "setup a mirror"
* sistpoty needs some sleep now
<sistpoty> gn8 folks
<chillywilly> how goes it people?
<chillywilly> getting ready for a release? :)
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> having a holiday
<chillywilly> who is?
<chillywilly> you?
<bddebian> Hehe
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and bddebian decided to as well
<chillywilly> you're always on holiday ajmitch ;)
<chillywilly> ya lazy sob ;)
<chillywilly> ANYWAY
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I am
<chillywilly> I am pretty excited about the release
<chillywilly> go go gadget Ubuntu!
<ajmitch> it won't be too different for me
<chillywilly> well I get to upgrade my big ol' servers
<ajmitch> since I haven't been running hoary
<chillywilly> that'll be fun...
<chillywilly> I was thinking about switching them over the other day but I am just going to wait until it is "official"
<chillywilly> I have breezy on my home and work desktops
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<jsgotangco> hi ho
<jsgotangco> i woke up late heh
<chillywilly> suck slackers around here ;)
<chillywilly> such*
* chillywilly slaps bddebian around some
<LaserJock> checking for a Motif >= 1002 compatible API... no
<LaserJock> configure: error: M*tif has not been found
<bddebian> LaserJock: Doesn't that SUCK :-)
<bddebian> chillywilly: My machine died :-(
<chillywilly> resurrect it ;)
<chillywilly> hurry! ;)
<LaserJock> bddebian: what does it need?
<ajmitch> lesstif? :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: I don't know.  I found two packages with that error and couldn't find anything new enough.  lesstif is supposed to provide it
<LaserJock> yeah, I have lesstif2-dev as a build dep
<LaserJock> what about libmotif-dev ?
<bddebian> FUCK, it won't boot off the CD .. :-(
<LaserJock> so should I forget it do you think?
<bddebian> No, you should fix it ;-P
<LaserJock> well, I would like too
<ogra_edu_xu> crimsun, xfce doesnt start xscreensaver ?
<bddebian> Now we're cookin/
<Kyral> I hope it tastes good...
<bddebian> Tastes like chicken
<Kyral> Pfft! Gimme a slab of beef
<bddebian> I thought all you commie free software types had to be vegetarians? ;-P
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> is our glorious leader RMS a vegetarian?
<bddebian> Probably :-)
<wickedpuppy> linus ?
<crimsun> ogra: no, it doesn't depend on it
<ogra> crimsun, its a bit strange, since nothing happens if you click the lock icon...
<bddebian> OK, I'm sitting here on Preparing for Installation.. How long should I wait??
<crimsun> ogra: please file a bug in Malone, and we'll assign it to MOTUXfce. Thanks!
<LaserJock> quick question, how do you tell what arch's a new upload has built ok on?
<bddebian> LaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com/buildLogs/   He has them by arch
<LaserJock> ok, thanks bddebian
<tritium> bddebian, there's no ~person in that URL?
<LaserJock> I think it might be ~lamont maybe?
<bddebian> Heh, whoops, yeah
<ajmitch> yay, cd downloads stopped
* ajmitch hopes the DC returns asap
<jsgotangco> ahaha
<jsgotangco> elmo turned off ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> I cannae feed my addiction!
<tritium> what's the shutoff for?
<ajmitch> 'emergency network maintenance'
<ajmitch> probably router on fire or something :)
<tritium> oh
<tritium> jsgotangco, you'll like my latest fix to wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat
<ajmitch> my flatmates will love me for getting the internet connection shaped to 64Kbps
<ajmitch> tritium: we will once we can see it
<tritium> yep
<ajmitch> oh man
* ajmitch cannot reach the frdge!
<xhaker> all down again
<xhaker> :
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> since I'm still fetching cd images for testing
<xhaker> pretty wierd thing happened now.. tou said you could not access the fridge.. so i tryed acessing ubuntu.com.. got refused.. so i replyed back at you just to find i was disconnected from my wireless connection due to a firmware error..
<xhaker> and after the automatic wifi reconnect i'm here.. wasn't even disconnected
<tritium> ajmitch, where is the fridge, anyway?
<jsgotangco> fridge.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> it seems down still...
<tritium> I've never seen it...
<jsgotangco> oh its quite cool already
<tritium> I'll check it out
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<sivang> \sh: Guten Morgen
<\sh> oh my head...good morning
<zakame> hi all!
<CaiN_SA> good morning
<Burgundavia> CaiN_SA, you are an ImpiLinux dev, no?
<CaiN_SA> yeh
<CaiN_SA> y
<dholbach> good morning
<zakame> good afternoon dholbach
<dholbach> hey :)
<jsgotangco> hey daniel
<dholbach> hey jerome
<jsgotangco> busy busy busy
<dholbach> yeah
* ajmitch decides to break UVF for universe again
<ajmitch> got to get bzr 0.1.1 in
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> it's a bugfix release, so should be safe
<dholbach> if not we'd be able to fix in breezy-updates
<ajmitch> yes, but I'd prefer to get it in breezy :)
<ajmitch> and I know the bzr people do too
<dholbach> sure
<ajmitch> including sabdfl :)
<Burgundavia> there are a lot of reports that VLC is totally borked after the last release
<Burgundavia> you might want to roll that one back
<Burgundavia> s/release/upload
<crimsun> it is, I'm working on it.
<crimsun> (I've actually been working on it for two days now.)
* dholbach consoles crimsun
<dholbach> poor daniel
<crimsun> it's kinda a lose-lose situation; if we roll back to the previous version, only x86 will build leaving the others FTBFS. At least now all the arches will build, and at the worst you'll have to use the commandline to invoke the player with media files (much like mplayer)
<Burgundavia> crimsun, ouch
* Burgundavia notes that the upshot is more people using totem
<crimsun> totem-xine | totem-gstreamer is great
<Burgundavia> there is no more usable video player out there
<CaiN_SA> $*U&I$U&*($#
* CaiN_SA spacks his retarded notebook
<siretart> morning!
<zakame> afternoon!
<siretart> ;)
<siretart> 930am over here, and already at uni ;)
<ajmitch> hi siretart, zakame
<siretart> hi ajmitch! how're things?
<ajmitch> good :)
<zakame> hi ajmitch ! =)
<\sh> morning siretart
<dholbach> morning \sh
<dholbach> how do you feel today?
<\sh> dholbach: don't ask...my head's paining, my stomach's playing drums...but I'm over it
<dholbach> you shouldnt have drunken alcohol
<dholbach> guys: i'm on UniverseFTBFS - fixing guppi
<\sh> dholbach: well...too late...but you know...it was something new...I can decide to shutdown 4 mio people in NRW to not watch TV anymore...but bringing amarok 1.3.3 so close to release to breezy...it costs me 3 weeks of my life
<dholbach> it won't
<\sh> dholbach: anyways...decision is made, no 1.3.3 and I'm ok with it. everybody else is also agreeing, nobody died..so let's get rocking on the rest of universeFTBFS
<Tonio-> morning dholbach \sh and others
<dholbach> YEAH
<dholbach> hey Tonio-
<Tonio-> dholbach: ^^ in case you go on revu, don't waste time on Yakuake, Riddell already upoaded it
<dholbach> i see...
<Skid> hi chaps - was just wondering what it takes to become a mirror
<Skid> and approximate usages, etc etc
<\sh> what the hell is yada ?
<dredg> it's a source of great great great evil
* ajmitch shudders
<ajmitch> don't speak that word in here!
<dredg> really. worse than paedophiles.
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> I just feel it
<\sh> hate's coming up
<Tonio-> yop
<dholbach> \sh: debianization aid - silly thing
<\sh> dholbach: yeah...I just fixed 5 times debian/rules and debian/control until I understood, that yada is overriding my changes with debian/packages *gnarf*
<ajmitch> \sh: just *one* of the reasons why yada is evil
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> ajmitch: see -changes ;)
* ajmitch fears
<ajmitch> \sh: how about libofx?
* ajmitch doesn't see any \sh magic
<\sh> ajmitch: u wanted to fix it, dude
<\sh> u said one morning: "I'll fixed it already...and upload later"
<\sh> - I'll + I
<ajmitch> pff
<\sh> ajmitch: and sorry...I'm totally brainfcked today..trying to catch up ;)I
<ajmitch>   The 'yada is evil' Upload
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> I only did Replaces..
* ajmitch will put Conflicts there as well
<ajmitch> although it probably doesn't need it
<\sh> ajmitch: hmm..conflicts? I think we had the discussion...but anyways...I'm a coward
<ajmitch> yeah, Replaces is where files are replaced
<ajmitch> so I don't think Conflicts is needed
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, holy sh*t that doc sure looks good
<ajmitch> yeah, fairly basic
<ajmitch> it's an introduction for sure, but that's what was intended
<jsgotangco> well its an intro
<ajmitch> gets people started on the right path
<ajmitch> so you can read this & become a MOTU ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> and stop slacking
<ajmitch> if you get time outside of docs
<ajmitch> you're hardly a slacker :)
<jsgotangco> i'd like to do some packages really
<HiddenWolf> Guys, that vlc that was recently uploaded is completely disfunctional
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: if you could try help fixing it, it'd be nice
<dholbach> there's not much time left and we're all quite busy
<HiddenWolf> It's not theme-aware, preference dialog doesn't work, and the only way to play a media file is to drag it on top of it.
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, I suggest uploading the previous version again.
* ajmitch hands HiddenWolf a copy of the source & the maintainer guide :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: \o/
<tseng> downgrading versions is painful
<tseng> please try to find the regression
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, ajmitch, not something that's fixable in a day, at least the old one kind of worked.
<HiddenWolf> tseng, _everything_ changed, or seemed to.
<tseng> er
<deFrysk> anyone knows why the non-functional vlc is added ?
<tseng> sigh
<dholbach> deFrysk: afaik it didnt build on all architectures
<deFrysk> ow :s
<crimsun> HiddenWolf: the old one FTBFS on 2 of our 3 supported arches
<crimsun> the new one that I have builds, but the gui playlist loading won't work
<HiddenWolf> crimsun, nor the preferences dialog
<crimsun> HiddenWolf: I haven't uploaded 3
<crimsun> I've fixed the ffmpeg linking issues
<deFrysk> crimsun, playlist loading works on mine , but no prefs
<crimsun> ARGH
<crimsun> I swear wxgtk2.6's Unicode support is borked somehow
* ajmitch starts another pbuilder just for fun
<crimsun> if worse comes to worst, I'll dput the ubuntu3 that I have here, because it 1) builds on all 3 arches; 2) restores codec support; 3) still works from the commandline
<HiddenWolf> crimsun, cool
<crimsun> but -- adding from the playlist is broken due to UTF-8 crack
<crimsun> 0.8.4-test1 is even worse
<crimsun> trunk is ... trunk, and has lots of broken wxwidgets "support"
<crimsun> deFrysk: echo $LANG, please
<Tonio-> siretart: just look at your comment concernint klamav....
<crimsun> deFrysk: and I presume you mean ubuntu2 works for you RE: DnD playlist?
<Tonio-> siretart: I've done a manpage concerning the shellscript, but manpages with extensions cause a litian bug apparently.
<Tonio-> siretart: already discused with dholbach
* ajmitch uploads libofx & prays that it works
<deFrysk> VLC media player 0.8.4-svn20040920 Janus is the one I have here
<ajmitch> deFrysk: dpkg -l vlc
<dholbach> Tonio-: he's reviewing stuff for his exams
<dholbach> Tonio-: (so not here)
<deFrysk> ajmitch, want me to past the output here ?
<Tonio-> dholbach: okay ;) It is just because I knew that this lintian bug would create missunderstood ;)
<ajmitch> deFrysk: there should only be a line or two - paste the line with the version number
<Tonio-> dholbach: missunderstanding, sorry
<dholbach> dont worry :)(
<deFrysk> vlc            0.8.4-svn20050
<ajmitch> meh, that's not enough of the version
<Tonio-> dholbach: I don't ;) I more worried about that f**ing jboss server that crashes due to memory problem.....
<deFrysk> ajmitch, I'll paste the whole thing just this time because i thinks there is something wrong :
<Tonio-> 1 week for RAM replacement -> thanks to HP :(
<deFrysk> dpkg -l vlc
<deFrysk> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<deFrysk> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
<deFrysk> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<deFrysk> ||/ Name           Version        Description
<deFrysk> +++-==============-==============-============================================
<deFrysk> ii  vlc            0.8.4-svn20050 multimedia player for all audio and video fo
<ajmitch> deFrysk: please, you didn't need to :)
<ajmitch> you just needed a wider terminal
<deFrysk> sorry
<deFrysk> vlc                         0.8.4-svn20050920-3+hal0ubu
<ajmitch> more..
<deFrysk> there you go :s
<ajmitch> need more...
<ajmitch> it still cut off :)
<deFrysk> vlc                                  0.8.4-svn20050920-3+hal0ubuntu2
<ajmitch> ok
<Treenaks> ajmitch: or pipe it through something, I think I heard keybuk say he'd fixed that
<crimsun> yeah, thought so.
<deFrysk> gotcha!
<ajmitch> Treenaks: yeah, probably
<deFrysk> http://johanvrt.tomaatnet.nl/vlc.png looking ugly :s
<Treenaks> deFrysk: it looks Macosxish
<Treenaks> deFrysk: or at least quicktimeish
<Treenaks> deFrysk: or itunesish
<deFrysk> Treenaks, its not responding to gtk themeing
<crimsun> deFrysk: due to broken wxwidgets dialog. I fixed that.
<deFrysk> thats the worst bit
<deFrysk> crimsun, cool
* ajmitch fires off some last minute fixes for the buildds :)
<JanC> vlc startup errors: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3009
<crimsun> I'm seriously debating rolling back to wxwindows2.4
<crimsun> it'll be ugly, but at least it should work.
<dholbach> crimsun: if it works, go for it
<crimsun> JanC: -vvv will demonstrate that the postproc linkage is screwed. I've fixed that, too.
<crimsun> dholbach: yeah, I'm building the diff now.
<deFrysk> I like the working playlist in thisone but the equalizer is awesome in vlc (if it works)
* deFrysk tried also a video in vlc but I only got sound , no images
<deFrysk> in this version that is
<crimsun> that's due to broken ffmpeg linkage, see above.
<deFrysk> ok
<crimsun> ok, vlc fixed.
* crimsun sighs
* HiddenWolf cheers on crimsun
<deFrysk> crimsun, fixed as in fixed or fixed as in downgraded ?
<HiddenWolf> fixed is fixed. :)
<deFrysk> HiddenWolf, I need details ;p
<HiddenWolf> crimsun ok, vlc fixed.
<HiddenWolf> that's all the detail I can give you.
<deFrysk> hehe
<crimsun> deFrysk: the underlying issue is that wxWidgets's UTF-8 parsing is horribly broken
<HiddenWolf> crimsun, so you spanked it into submission?
<crimsun> Given another month, I might have been able to hack out a workaround, but even the vlc guys are tired of it.
<crimsun> No, I eliminated the UTF-8 problem by using wxWindows
<crimsun> you won't have pretty fonts in the menus, but that's a small price to pay imo
<HiddenWolf> crimsun, what kind of horrible widget-kit is wx?
<\sh> wxwindows
<HiddenWolf> vlc looks like it is osx exclusive. :P
<\sh> so your fav linux apps are looking like your doomed windows app
<ajmitch> except worse
<ajmitch> since wx 2.4 uses gtk+ 1.2 :)
<crimsun> looks horrible but works.
<HiddenWolf> ajmitch, O M G
<ajmitch> yep
<HiddenWolf> crimsun, works is good. :)
<deFrysk> crimsun, great work :)
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<\sh> re
<\sh> just testing breezy upgrades in the NOC :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> hey barry
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<Lathiat> \sh: testing.. NOC!? ;p
<bddebian> Heya Stephan, Andrew
<\sh> Lathiat: NOC == Network Operations Center :) And my colleagues around me are going to be ubuntu junkies :)
<Lathiat> i know what a noc is ;p
<Lathiat> just wondering why you were testing breezy in a noc which assumedly is runnign some kind of important serivces? :p
<\sh> Lathiat: well...our laptops are running normally windows...but since I'm working here, most of the laptops are running linux ;)
<bddebian> I'm out of the game.. :'-( :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: a shame
<ajmitch> 2am & I'm still doing uploads
<\sh> bddebian: whats up?
* ajmitch confesses he's an addict
<bddebian> heh
<Yagisan> ajmitch: G'day - is there a link to your selinux work ?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: no
<ajmitch> Yagisan: due to heavy MOTU work I haven't collated everything & put info online :)
<bddebian> \sh: My laptop died yesterday afternoon and I was up till 1:00am trying to get it to work.  First CD was jacked.  Second CD wouldn't get through the install process, now it can't remove metacity and thunderbird?? :-(
<ajmitch> \sh & bddebian keep on cracking the whip
<bddebian> ajmitch: You going to bed? :-)
<ajmitch> no, the voices won't let me
<\sh> hahahaha
<Yagisan> ajmitch: cool - I'm experimenting with pax + rsbac (I think having multiple implementations lets you pick the most appropriate)
<dholbach> hey barry
<ajmitch> Yagisan: yeah, we've got to sort out how deep selinux integration into dapper can go - I don't think it's something that will be on by default
<bddebian> Heya dholbach
<ajmitch> Yagisan: you might be able to maintain a pax+rsbac kernel for dapper in universe?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'm happy to help in testing - I'll try for pax + rsbac. I don't think being locked into any one solution is good for security
<ajmitch> Yagisan: agreed
<Yagisan> ajmitch: if I get pax + rsbac going well - I'll send it to revu for checking
<ajmitch> as soon as we think one of them is the 'magic bullet' we're probably chasing the wrong path :)
<Yagisan> very true
<Yagisan> in security - one size does not fit all
<ajmitch> I've still got to investigate selinux+initramfs with jbailey
<ajmitch> for initial device labelling
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'm looking to see why 8139too is busted under high load
<ajmitch> yeah?
<Yagisan> yeah
<ajmitch> probably because the cards are cheap :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9972
<Yagisan> ajmitch: it used to work - that's the kicker
<ajmitch> very annoying
<Yagisan> ajmitch: something changed in the kernel and now they fail under high load
<ajmitch> how high?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: and I have an office full of ltsp clients that use them :(
<Yagisan> ajmitch: Think apt-cacher and several updates at once
<Yagisan> ajmitch: about 20Mbps is enough
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I've got 8139too in my main dev box & a spare box
<Yagisan> I only have 8139too cards (main box has 8169 integrated) - I had to borrow a pcnet32 for my firewall
* ajmitch wonders what the laptop has..
<Yagisan> and that was hard to find
<ajmitch> oh that's right
<ajmitch> nasty evil broadcom
<HiddenWolf> ogra, embarrasing typo in the humility changelog!
<ajmitch> hardly embarassing
<ogra> OMG !!!
<HiddenWolf> ogra, I want the new upstrem version too!
<ogra> STOP THE RELEASE, I MADE A TYPO !!!
<ajmitch> we all make mistakes like that :P
<HiddenWolf> ogra, HALT THE PRESSES
<ajmitch> ogra: better get sabdfl on the batphone
<ogra> HiddenWolf, i relly dnt cre.... if i mke tpos
<ogra> lol
<jsgotangco> lol
<HiddenWolf> ogra, :)
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> 14MB upload on a 128Kbps line
<HiddenWolf> ajmitch, it's a joke, you need to laugh, not sigh. :)
<ajmitch> ogra: moodle upload is running, if it doesn't timeout
<ogra> phew
<HiddenWolf> moodle?
* ajmitch also has pyflakes to break UVF with 
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> moodle
<ogra> ajmitch, decide yourself about that one :)
* HiddenWolf googles
<ajmitch> ogra: oh I already decided :)
<ogra> hehe
<ajmitch> the changes are mainly fixes for py 2.4 stuff
<ajmitch> so I built it & it's going in
<ajmitch> 3MB up..
<bddebian> heh
* ajmitch waits patiently
<bddebian> I NEED MY COMPUTER... :'-(
* bddebian needs a fix
<ajmitch> hm, what else can I upload this morning? :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: You can fix tyvis
<ajmitch> it's only 3am
<bddebian> Or boson-base
<ajmitch> what's broken about it?
<bddebian> ajmitch: afaict, one problem is that it's looking for UniverseLongLongInteger.hh in the wrong place but it may still get other errors
<bddebian> ajmitch: And boson-base just won't build, even with an update from upstream
<zyga> hi
<zyga> anyone with review powers around? :)
<bddebian> If elmo would get my syncs done you could bring in the newer cyphesis-cpp from Debian too.. :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: at 3am, I'm not likely to do much
<slomo_> hi everybody :)
<ajmitch> nothing that requires thought anyway ;)
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh sure, I ask for work and NOW you quit.. ;-)
<zyga> could someone with mighty review powers help me put one working package into universe till tonight?
<slomo> do we have any showstoppers left that need to be fixed?
<ajmitch> zyga: a new package?
<dholbach> zyga: i can't - lots of stuff in main
<dholbach> sorry
<zyga> ajmitch: yes
<zyga> gnu gadu, 2.2.8
<zyga> I'll take full responsibility/patching/security for it
<ajmitch> zyga: new packages would have to be approved by elmo once we uploaded them
<zyga> ajmitch: it's fully GPL'd
<ajmitch> chances of that still happening are becoming slimmer by the minute
<zyga> ah
<zyga> I've been too busy lately but now I've finished IRL project and I was hoping to still catch breezy
<zyga> people already use this package everyday
<xhaker> i would like to add my applet too to the universe.. but there is no rush..
<zyga> simply from unofficial repos
<hubW> dholbach: my enblend package is being packaged by a debian developer
<hubW> dholbach: using my ubuntu package
<dholbach> hubW: cool
<hubW> dholbach: what do we do in that case?
<dholbach> of that's a problem
<dholbach> hubW: please discuss that with the rest of the guys
<dholbach> i'm VERY busy
<hubW> dholbach: ah ok. sorry
<zyga> Q:  How many IBM CPU's does it take to execute a job?
<zyga> asw:  Four; three to hold it down, and one to rip its head off.
<zyga> uhhh
* zyga has to remove fortune from login script...
<ivoks> uh, god... how frustrated I am today...
<Treenaks> ivoks: ?
<ivoks> Treenaks: osx makes me sick
<Treenaks> ivoks: purge it, replace with ubuntu
<ivoks> Treenaks: ivoks.blogspot.com
<Treenaks> ivoks: aren't you on planet?
<ivoks> Treenaks: nope :/
<ajmitch> samba issues?
<Treenaks> ivoks: ask jdub
<zanaga> hmmh.. should i go ahead and mark malone #2266, #2311 and #2776 and duplicates of eachother? Or should someone from the motu team do it?
<ivoks> Treenaks: just read that blog... it really makes me sick when i see osx
<Treenaks> ivoks: I can imagine
<Treenaks> ivoks: still, get added to planet! :) it'd be cool
<bddebian> Heya ivoks, tritium
<tritium> morning, bddebian
<ajmitch> ivoks: I'm surprised you didn't package up samba 3.0.20? :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: :)
<tritium> hi ajmitch, ivoks
<ivoks> ajmitch: i will, but this was too much
<ivoks> hi all
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aren't you supposed to be working on tyvis? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, I'm not
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> well I have to sleep now, 3:30AM
<ajmitch> I expect all the universe bugs to be fixed by the time I get up!
<ajmitch> night all
<dholbach> night ajmitch
<tritium> night ajmitch
<tritium> morning dholbach
<Yagisan> goodnight ajmitch
<bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
<dholbach> hi tritium
<chillywilly> xorg-common 6.8.2-9999999999999999999999 ;)
<bddebian> Heh, heya chillywilly
<asw> zyga - caught my attention =^0
<zyga> asw: okay :>
<zyga> asw: I'll re-check everything about that package and get back to you in 30 minutes okay/
<zyga> asw: if you are interested in the source: www.gadu.gnu.pl
<zyga> asw: my package is based on the hoary package, I cooperate with the author
<zyga> (he has lost interest / time to maintain it)
<zyga> asw: I've got my key signed especially for this as every polish ubuntu user is using this :)
<zyga> (kubuntu has kadu which has no package yet)
<zyga> asw: is that okay with you? 17:10 +0200
<zyga> asw: ?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Yagisan> G'day sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> sistpoty: how did the raid upgrade go ?
<sistpoty> raid upgrade?
<Yagisan> sistpoty: If my failing memory is working - I think you had trouble with a promise raid card
<Yagisan> sistpoty: if not - I should drink some coffee to wake up
<sistpoty> Yagisan: nope... i don't have a promise ctrler... iirc that was ivoks
<sistpoty> hehe
<Yagisan> sistpoty: doesn't matter :) what's up ?
<sistpoty> last minute fixing :)
<Yagisan> sistpoty: so what are you fixing atm ?
<sistpoty> still trying to fiddle with xprint (UniverseFTBFS)
<Yagisan> ahh - I'm trying to work out why my 8139 based netcards all fail under high load :(
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> Yagisan: had this issue once, but that was because the realtek had gotten to hot and was b0rked because of that.
<Yagisan> sistpoty: it's not that (3 8139 based cards failed) - but when replaced with a pcnet32 based card it works
<Yagisan> sistpoty: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9972
* Yagisan may need to downgrade the firewall to workaround it :(
<sistpoty> Yagisan: have you tried the things with the different modules as mentioned in the bugreport?
<Yagisan> sistpoty: yes - I'm the verbose reporter at the end :)
<sistpoty> ah k ;)... haven't used an 8139 based card for a while now :)
<Yagisan> sistpoty: I had a box full of them - and all my thin clients have them
<Yagisan> sistpoty: what decent card do you have ?
* Yagisan is almost desperate enough to set up a PLIP connection and daisy chain the systems
<Lathiat> lol
<sistpoty> damn... xprint *is* wicked :)
<ogra> xprint should die
<spayne> hi di hi all
<ogra> libxp replaces it anyway...
<bddebian> sistpoty: I told you :-)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Did you see my comments on UniverseFTBFS?
<sistpoty> ogra: should it? then i won't try to fix it :)
<sistpoty> bddebian: yep, thx for these
<bddebian> NP
<ogra> is there still something depending on it ?
<bddebian> It has lots of rdepends iirc
<ogra> ouch
<ogra> ogra@honk:~/Desktop $ apt-cache rdepends xprint
<ogra> xprint
<ogra> Reverse Depends:
<ogra>   firefox
<ogra>   xprt-xprintorg
<ogra>   xprt
<ogra>   xprint-common
<ogra>   firefox
<ogra> i doubt firefox counts here....
<ogra> and the rest are internal deps...
<ogra> you should ask daniels about it, i think i heard him saying it should be morgued
<sistpoty> ogra: ack... mozilla thing only suggests it
<sistpoty> ogra: will do
<ogra> :)
<TMM> I'm trying to patch azureus to work with kaffe and classpath, but the build depends would still depend on sun's java compiler. Can this be included in universe? the resulting .deb would not depend on any non-free software, but the build process will...
<ogra> this wont work
<ogra> since you need the package installed during build
<TMM> I was afraid of that... I'll just have to see if I can make it build with jikes-gcj then
<ogra> but you can only install things that actually are in the archive... and you need to move the package to where its build deps are
<ogra> we have blackdown java in multiverse
<ogra> so if you move azureus to multiverse and it can build with j2re1.4, this could work
<TMM> I'd like to see it in universe, as it would be 100% free s such
<ogra> then you cant build it with and sun related VM
<ogra> make it compile with gjc ;)
<TMM> I realise that :) that's why I'll just have to make it build with a compiler from universe :)
<Yagisan> I could not get azureus to work with any java < 1.5
<TMM> Yagisan, that's where the patching comes in :)
<TMM> Yagisan, I've already gotten it to work in gnu's java interpreter, but it's so slow it's not even funny anymore
<Yagisan> TMM: great - it is the ONLY thing on my system that causes me to install sun java
<Yagisan> TMM: Can't you just gcj it to native code ?
<zyga> in soviet rusia java depends on *you* ;-))
<TMM> Yagisan, in kaffe, the UI shows up now, and most of the functionality works, but actually downloading a torrent fails because of some network related bugs
<zyga> s/si/ssi/
<TMM> Yagisan, I've tried, but I'm not exactly a java hero
<Pygi> Oh, finally this channel became active :P
<TMM> it's always active
<Pygi> maybe...then I always get on in wrong time :P
<Yagisan> TMM: Kaffe is the most complete of the free javas ?
<markuman> some people said, they have installed nvidia driver but than they get no output from glxgears - is these bug known?
<TMM> Yagisan, usually I prefer sablevm but for azureus, kaffe seems to work best
<TMM> Yagisan, at least, I've cut memory usage by 80% when running it in kaffe (but it's useless for now)
<Yagisan> TMM: I don't care which free java it uses - as long as it works. Memory usage is good - on Sun it uses up to 300MB on my box
<zyga> heh
<zyga> and python torrent uses few megs at best :D
<TMM> Yagisan, yeah, that is why I want it to run on a sane VM
<TMM> zyga, there really is no real alternative to azureus when it comes to speed imho
<TMM> zyga, download wise, not app wise
<zyga> java q.... (swapping to disk)....... u.......a........l........i......t......y
<TMM> zyga, although some people disagree :
<TMM> :)
<zyga> TMM: really? I didn't notice any difrference
<zyga> TMM: but I didnt use azureus much - I'm alergic to java
<TMM> zyga, for me it seems to matter quite a bit
<Yagisan> zyga: I have 1.5GB of RAM and 4GB swap :) but that ram could be used as a disk cache for my 600GB RAID array
<TMM> zyga, well, with swt it's not all that bad imho
<Yagisan> besides I like the distributed tracker - it's great then your tracker disappears
<TMM> Yagisan, yeah, that's great
<Yagisan> and it only needs 1 port open on the firewall - regardless of how many torrents you have running
<zyga> Yagisan, TMM: I've got 512 Megs and this is a laptop so I'd rather not use any swap
<TMM> zyga, I run it in the same setup :)
<zyga> I ususally download stuff on my home server though, running on 128 megs of old ram
<TMM> Swap:   976712k total,   488580k used,   488132k free,    79368k cached
<TMM> :)
<zyga> (and keeping, apache, nfs, samba, mysql, and some custom apps too)
<TMM> Mem:    451340k total,   445396k used,     5944k free,     5988k buffers
<TMM> not good :)
<zyga> so putting java would be like sticking a huge elephant into my bed
<zyga> just because it's grey....
<Yagisan> zyga: for me swap is basically /tmp (I love tmpfs :) )
<zyga> err.. :-)
<TMM> java is apparently using 487Mb of memory
* zyga discovered tmpfs two days ago
<TMM> Yagisan, having your swap in tmpfs isn't really a great thing
<zyga> but I process more stuff than I have memory :/
<TMM> Yagisan, tmpfs is like a ramdisk, so all your swapspace will be in your main memory, causing you to swap faster...
<zyga> I use it to extract tons of .po files
<zyga> process them one by one
<zyga> compress and put back into archive
<zyga> on tmpfs it takes about 30% less time
<TMM> zyga, that's a good use of tmpfs :) swap isn't
<zyga> TMM: yeah, swap should be able to SWAP
<zyga> Yagisan: I'm working on an experimental malloc
<zyga> running linux without swap is just plain bad for performance
<zyga> current malloc has some very very bad characteristics
<zyga> just before I go
<zyga> allocation spikes just plain kill malloc
<Yagisan> TMM: no, my swap is not on tmpfs, I use my swap as /tmp by mounting a 4GB tmpfs
<zyga> okay - brb :D
<zyga> dholbach[_] ?: please please sponsor my package to universe whenever you have free time
* zyga is away for 30 minute
<Yagisan> zyga: In some cases it's ok to run without swap, but having some means memory leaks get swapped out
<TMM> Yagisan, euh, why?
<dholbach_> zyga: which one?
<Yagisan> TMM: my pbuilder buildplace is /tmp - when mounted as tmpfs it basically build in ram - no disk access = quicker build
<TMM> Yagisan, I get that, but not if your tmpfs is located in swap, then it's probably slower
<Yagisan> TMM: I thin you misunderstand me - tmpfs IS located in swap
<spayne> need some help guys with PGP advice? anyone around to help?
<Yagisan> s/thin/tink
<Yagisan> s/thin/think
* Yagisan can't type tonight
<TMM> Yagisan, if it is located in swap, then, you still have disk access, right?
<Yagisan> TMM: yes - but only after I fill up my 1.5GB of RAM
<Yagisan> which on most builds never happens
<TMM> ah yeah, now I think i get it... that whole "tmpfs IS located in swap" got me a bit confused
<Yagisan> TMM: no worries - just don't try to build OOo2 or the kernel packages on tmpfs - you'll need many many GB for that!
<spayne> has anyone seen Mez around recently?
<TMM> Yagisan, I wasn't planning on building OOo2 EVER actually
<TMM> Yagisan, :)
<ivoks> so frustrated...
<Yagisan> TMM: I learnt the hard way that kernel-source-2.6.12 needs gigs of space - I ran it with /tmp as tmpfs and eventually while building
<ivoks> i'll have to buy an ice truck to cool me off...
<Yagisan> X was killed by the OOM killer
<Yagisan> then I got out of disk space errors
<TMM> Yagisan, lol! let me guess, you ran it from a gnome-terminal? :)
<slomo> sistpoty: ping?
<Yagisan> TMM: yes - on the office terminal server
<TMM> Yagisan, :) gnome-terminal isn't the most resource friendly app either :)
<Yagisan> TMM: I know - but compared to evolution, firefox, spamassassin, and azureus on sun java - it not too big
<TMM> Yagisan, nope :)
<asw> zyga - you must have confused me with somebody else.
<asw> I'm Alexander (Sasha) Wait -- http://freebiology.org/wiki/User:AlexanderWait
<zyga> asw: checking
<zyga> dholbach: gg2, gnu gadu - I didn't post it to revu yet - but I'm almost ready to do so
<zyga> asw: I thought you are DD / UM or MOTU
<zyga> asw: what did catch your attention then?
<asw> nope. Not me.  Might happen someday as time permits.   (If you put a person's handle in your text it "catches their attention".)
<asw> (you meant to write "asw = answer")
<asw> but you got me.
<asw> (see your joke about IBM CPU's....
<asw> =^P
<zyga> ah :D
<spayne> brb
<sachingarg> I wish to know how packages are selected for distribution in ubuntu...
<ivoks> that's easy
<ivoks> we just take what debian has :)
<sachingarg> :-)
<sachingarg> i came across "restricted copyright" section in synaptic... are those packages close-sourced?
<ivoks> restricted repository?
<ivoks> yes, those are mostly drivers like nvidia and fglrx
<sachingarg> can other closed-sourced packages also be considered? assuming they are found to be usefull enough...
<ivoks> sachingarg: does are in multiverse repository
<sachingarg> i think fedora has a strict "open source only" policy... or am i mistaken?
<sachingarg> are any packages from multiverse installed by default?
<ivoks> none
<sachingarg> ivoks, are you one of the repository maitainers...
<ivoks> only non open source packages in default install are those needed for some hardware to work
<ivoks> sachingarg: yup
<sachingarg> actually I am working on a project which I think might help linux users...
<ivoks> great
<sachingarg> but am not yet sure if i plan to open source it...
<sachingarg> evil commercial interests :-)
<ivoks> what will you gain if you don't open source it?
<ivoks> what will you loose if you open source it?
<ivoks> open source can be commerical
<sachingarg> but I am ofcourse planning to give away a large part of it which many can find usefull but not usefull enough to pay for it...
<sachingarg> give away as pre-compiled executable...
<ivoks> well, face the facts
<ivoks> if it isn't a driver for some massivly used hardware
<ivoks> you won't earn a thing :)
<sachingarg> my only reason for not open-sourcing it are evil commercial ones...
<dholbach> re
<ivoks> dholbach: hi
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<sistpoty> wb
<dholbach> hi ivoks, bddebian, sistpoty :)
<sachingarg> ummm.... maybe you are right... bur for all the effort going into it... i want to try...
<ivoks> sachingarg: you should consider some other ways to earn money
<sachingarg> I will probably open-source if it doesnt helps...
<ivoks> sachingarg: if you open source it, you product will be better
<sachingarg> C++ is the only thing I know... and i love doing it
<ivoks> sachingarg: well, it's your call
<ivoks> sachingarg: but be sure there are better ways to earn money on open source products
<bddebian> sachingarg: Even as Open Source, you can sell it
<sistpoty> is it possible to morgue breezy packages after breezy release?
<sachingarg> i have to agree that open source is better on all accounts... except for evil commercial reasons...
<ivoks> sachingarg: you can sell your product only once
<sachingarg> only once
<sachingarg> ?
<ivoks> sachingarg: but you can sell your support every month
<zyga> ivoks: selling support hardly works for small developers
<sachingarg> I am not quit near completion, else i would have discussed details too...
<ivoks> zyga: that depends on what he's doing
<zyga> ivoks: support contracts are very low paid at best
<zyga> but as a counter example
<zyga> I've recently sold a support contract for ... ubuntu
<sachingarg> zyga: i agreee... no ones gonna need support for my stuff
<zyga> :)
<ivoks> zyga: me too :))
<ivoks> not one, but couple :)
<zyga> ivoks: I'm selling micro ubuntu, X+firefox edition
<zyga> for web terminals and such
<ivoks> zyga: nice
<ivoks> zyga: mine are servers/clusters
<zyga> ivoks: but compared to selling closed source software to a company it's lunch money :/
<sachingarg> if it will be possible for my binary only distribution to be included in ubuntu, it will be great...
<ivoks> sachingarg: as i said, it depends on what it is
<sachingarg> i can assure it will help a large number if users...
<ivoks> sachingarg: look
<zyga> sachingarg: cut to the chase
<zyga> what is it?
<ivoks> sachingarg: the thing is that license will have to be no-money for distribution for ubuntu
<sachingarg> I am not quit near completion, else i would have discussed details too...
<sachingarg> binary will be free (as in beer)
<zyga> sachingarg: you can always do what skype does
<ivoks> sachingarg: if you are going to chagre distribution, i can garantuee you that it will not get in ubuntu
<sachingarg> binary will be free (as in beer)
<zyga> sachingarg: 'hey we've got a .deb for 6 months old ubuntu release, yay'
<ivoks> sachingarg: then why not make it open source? :)
<ivoks> if it will be free (as in beer)
<zyga> ivoks: most competiton would then take the source and rip it for their own needs
<ivoks> zyga: like nagios? :)
<zyga> ivoks: GPL can hardly protect you if you cannot afford a lawyer
<zyga> nagios?!
<ivoks> well, new gpl is on the way..
<sachingarg> my plan: executable can be free and distrubuted, but its LIB can be sold to enterprises who need it
<ivoks> nagios is closing source
<zyga> sachingarg: make sure you dont provide too much scriptability ;] 
<ivoks> well i have to go
<ivoks> see you guys
<zyga> ivoks: ah those folks who make some net scanning software?
<sachingarg> ivoks.. one sec...
<zyga> bye ivoks
<sistpoty> bye ivoks
<sachingarg> is this the best place to contact you.. or can i have your mail id... just in case
<ivoks> zyga: yes
<ivoks> sachingarg: you can talk with me or anybody else here
<sachingarg> ok...
<ivoks> sachingarg: we are one big happy familly
<sachingarg> thanks for your time... :-)
<ivoks> maybe i'm not even the best person to talk about that
<sachingarg> ok
<ivoks> well, i'm sure i'm not :)
* ivoks hugs everybody and walks away...
<sachingarg> zygaL i think fedora has a strict "open source only" policy, or am I wrong?
<sachingarg> zyga: i think fedora has a strict "open source only" policy, or am I wrong?
<zyga> sachingarg: I'm not sure - probably yes - I've used fedora core 3 only
<sachingarg> ok...
<zyga> sachingarg: sell your software to companies
<zyga> ignore the users
<sachingarg> i think i should come back here only when I have finished working on my stuff...
<zyga> users will only rob you
<sachingarg> maybe you are right...
<zyga> and annoy you with useless bug reports
<zyga> 'e.g: it does not work'
<sachingarg> but giving off a part of it shouldnt hurt me too much.. i hope
<sachingarg> can act as a demo and free publicity for me... and help them too...
<zyga> sachingarg: users annoyed, devs annoed, FOSS counterpart, you're dead ;] 
<sachingarg> strange you talk such things on ubuntu IRC :-)
<zyga> no no  :)
<zyga> I do open source
<zyga> and I do closed source
<zyga> and I need both to live
<sachingarg> i am neutral to OSS... same as you...
<zyga> closed source pays the rent
<zyga> open source nurishes the mind
<sachingarg> i am hoping for the same...
<zyga> most often closed source is built on open source
<sachingarg> paying rent... maybe on time this month :-)
<sachingarg> that is very true...
<sachingarg> GPL doesnt helps too much
<zyga> closed source is the only stuff that makes the customer not rip you in some cases
<zyga> not in the 'lone dev against small local company' at least
<sachingarg> i agree
<zyga> but I do agree that sometimes selling a support contract is nice
<zyga> but those usually go to corporations/companies
<ogra> sachingarg, we can include everything in multiverse that has a license that explicitly allows redistribution, even nonfree non GPL stuff, just license it redistributable ;)
<sachingarg> ogra: that will be really great
<zyga> and making small software (2-3 months of work) usually costs far more than any support contract I can get to support this one-time work
<zyga> blah, drinking doesn't improve my english
<sachingarg> i dont understand zyga...
<zyga> :0
<zyga> small projects are not sustainable via support contracts
<dholbach> alright
<dholbach> do we have fixes pending?
<dholbach> syncs to be made?
<sistpoty> not yet :(
<zyga> (silence)
<sachingarg> zyga: are you saying that selling small softwares are better than selling support contracts
<dholbach> i'm not sure how long universe still will be open, but i guess we have some hours left
<ogra> dholbach, nobody will tell you, we all fear you fall dead :)
<zyga> sachingarg: I'm saying that selling small software is better than developing that small software for free and then selling a support contract
<dholbach> nobody will tell me what?
<ogra> i guess its 1/2 day if we beg mdz a bit ;)
<zyga> dholbach: I'll msg you in 10 minutes
<ogra> dholbach, what's to do ...
<zyga> doing another build
<sachingarg> ogra: does fedora also allows close-sourced but redistributable software?
<sachingarg> zyga: ok
<zyga> sachingarg: ask in #fedora on google(fedora.irc)
<dholbach> can we do release-specific stuff in the channel now?
<ogra> sachingarg, thats probably a question you shouldnt ask in a ubuntu channel but in a fedora channel ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: i removed quite a lot of stuff from the list, that was in main and did build / was fixed
<sachingarg> am just being lazy... hoping you might be knowing... apologies
<sistpoty> dholbach: i saw :)
<dholbach> what are important candidates we want to fix?
<sachingarg> dholbach: i guess i should be leaving now and let you do the important tasks...
<dholbach> i'll have a look at malone for easy targets
<dholbach> so we can do the last bits
<dholbach> sachingarg: no, don't leave on my account
<sachingarg> no, its ok...
<dholbach> please dont... it's just that we've all been working long and we need to get the last bits together
<dholbach> normally i have no problem with any topic :)
<sachingarg> :-)
<ogra> sachingarg, we have release tomorrow and everybody has a lack of sleep here since a week :)
<sachingarg> zyga: i was just hoping if you can help me better plan a good business model for my selfish-evil-commercial project
<sachingarg> in fact it will be great of all others can help too...
<sachingarg> i am just confused how free should it be...
<zyga> sachingarg: not now, sorry
<sachingarg> ok, i will come around some other time...
<sistpoty> rebuild only: haskell-http, hunit ... anyone to upload these?
<sachingarg> thanks to all for your time :-)
<dholbach> sistpoty: just rebuilds?
<sistpoty> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> sistpoty: will do
<sistpoty> dholbach: still for ghc6transition... thx
<dholbach> will they build on amd64?
<sistpoty> why shouldn't they?
<dholbach> no idea :)
* dholbach doesnt speak haskell
<sistpoty> they won't build on ia64, since there is no ghc6 iirc
<sistpoty> ;)
<bddebian> APparently I am not meant to do any more MOTU work before release :'-(
<sistpoty> bddebian: still hw-troubles?
<siretart> hey
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> does anyone know why we are already auto-syncing?
<sistpoty> what?
<siretart> look on breezy-changes
<dholbach> nono
<dholbach> apt-get.org
<siretart> aah
<dholbach> :)
<siretart> okay.
<siretart> "Ich fuerchtete schon schlimmstes" (please translate someone..)
<siretart> ;)
<bddebian> sistpoty: No, install problems.  I can't get it installed on a machine here in the office either :-(
<dholbach> he was dreading the worst :)
<siretart> thnx
<sistpoty> poor bddebian
<siretart> lol @p0rn-comfort!
<dholbach> somebody wants to look at 3086 in malone?
<dholbach> might be worth fixing *shrug*
<dholbach> maybe has a debian fix
* sistpoty is looking
* bddebian can't fix shit :'-( :'-(
* sistpoty has no amd64 :(
* zyga has amd64 and takes a look
<dholbach> sistpoty: haskell-http uploaded
<sistpoty> thx
<dholbach> hunit too
<dholbach> both built NICELY :)
<sistpoty> cool, thx :)
<dholbach> anything we REALLY want to have fixed?
<dholbach> or is everything just cool?
<bddebian> dholbach: Fix tyvis and tell elmo to do my syncs ;-P
<dholbach> bddebian: i'll look at tyvis
<dholbach> bddebian: add pvm to your sync list
<sistpoty> #1 would be nice, but i think that is deferred for dapper ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<spayne> bddebian: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spayne/51909436 :)
<bddebian> spayne: Nice :-)
<spayne> bddebian: and if you like the dark http://www.flickr.com/photos/spayne/51909469
<spayne> ;)
<dholbach> ogra: you b0rked the changelog entry of tyvis :)
<Yagisan> spayne: it's a bit too dark to make out Micheal Jackson in that pic :-P
<dholbach> ogra: version number rather
<ogra> dholbach, ??
<spayne> Yagisan: he is always there - waiting and waiting
<dholbach> 20031216-4 -> 2001216-5ubuntu1 ;-)
<dholbach> you're the maintainer of it now :-p
<ogra> i remember there was an issue with timestamps from broken buzilla patch exports
<ogra> dholbach, bah
<dholbach> i'm talking about debian/changelog :)
<ogra> yes, me too
<bddebian> Hehe :-)
<ogra> the timestamps were wrapped in my forst cxx uploads
<ogra> *first
<dholbach> however... debian has -4
<bddebian> dholbach: BTW, one problem that I found was that UniversalLongLongInteger includes "tyvis/UniversalLongLongInteger.hh" and I think it should just be "UniversalLongLongInteger.hh"
<dholbach> bddebian: i'll poke it a bit :)
<slomo> dholbach: when i want a package from debian that is not in universe atm... shall i simply ask elmo to sync it or something else?
<bddebian> dholbach: Good man :-)
<dholbach> slomo: sync
<bddebian> slomo: If it works ;-)
<dholbach> bddebian: i wanted to have a look at the debian patches first
<slomo> dholbach: ok, so no different process for NEW from debian packages ;) fine
<bddebian> w00t, looks like elmo did my syncs
<bddebian> dholbach: They are useless and I think ogra already implemented them
<dholbach> bddebian: there was no debian/patches, that's why i wanted to check :)
<ogra> bddebian, i worked along bugzilla... i did only implement what people added to the bugzila bugs
<sistpoty> does anyone know Kenny Duffus?
<bddebian> ogra: Aye, I know, that wasn't a negative comment :-)
<ogra> bddebian, i know... i just wanted to give a hint... i cant look myself currently...
<ogra> wiki.edubuntu.org is just in the middle of the merge
<\sh> re
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<\sh> so..nightshift today...tomorrow I have a free day ;)
<bddebian> OK, can someone bring over cyphesis-cpp 0.5.1-1 from Debian?  It needs a build-dep change so it can't be synced directly from Debian.
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> bddebian: sure
<slomo> how can i get all functions or other symbols which are in a .so file? ;)
<bddebian> slomo: objdump -T
<slomo> bddebian: thanks :) you see? you're no idiot :P
<bddebian> slomo: Yes I am, I'm just an experience idiot ;-)
<bddebian> s/experience/experienced/
<zyga> slomo:  what about nm?
<slomo> zyga: it tells there are no symbols
<slomo> objdump works :)
<\sh> bddebian: what has to be changed?
<dholbach> HA
<dholbach> bddebian: rebuilding tyvis works on amd64 :)
<dholbach> bddebian: dunno about i386, did you test that?
<\sh> slomo: is elmo listening to sync reqs now or better mail?
<bddebian> dholbach: Really?  It fails on i386
<dholbach> bddebian: ok
<bddebian> \sh: I can't remember off-hand.  I had to change something from foo-dev to foo2-dev
<slomo> \sh: no idea... he synced some stuff some minutes ago so he is probably there and reads -devel ;)
* bddebian CURSES his dead laptop
<bddebian> dholbach: Makes sense since it pukes on INT64_MAX
<dholbach> +nod+
<ogra> lol, people subscribed to the whole wiki now also get edubuntu changes *g*
<bddebian> \sh: I think maybe it was libgcrypt2-dev
<sistpoty> args... i don't have gpg in kmail any longer... since upgrade from today :(
<sistpoty> says s.th. about gpgme does not have opengpg support...?
<\sh> bddebian: i'll see
<\sh> sistpoty: ping riddell
<sistpoty> maybe i have the wrong lib installed... i'll check first
<dholbach> sistpoty: haskell-http in the  buildlogs?
<sistpoty> dholbach: didn't look for it yet
* sistpoty is looking
<\sh> how nice wifi is...now I can irc and at the same time pxebooting my r200 ;)
<Greg_Wah> Eclipse has broken dependancies in breezy, should I file a bugreport or has it been done?
<\sh> bddebian: libatlas-cpp-0.5-dev
<\sh> must be
<\sh> there is no 0.6
<sistpoty> dholbach: damn, my fault, i didn't see cabal in there :( I'll prepare a debdiff
<dholbach> dont worry
<dholbach> we have time
<\sh> bddebian: ah...atlas-cpp comes now ;)
<sistpoty> phew... at least cabal is properly broken... otherwise it would have screwed up the buildds again
<slomo> sistpoty: it still isn't removed? hrm
<sistpoty> slomo: no
<\sh> bddebian: I'm waiting with this package until your atlas package is build and on the archive
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/debdiffs/haskell-http_1build1_to_1ubuntu1.debdiff <- builds fine now
<sistpoty> anyone to sponsor?
<slomo> sistpoty: i'll do it
<sistpoty> slomo: thx
<bddebian> \sh: OK :-)
<bddebian> Breezy had BETTER install on this P4 3.0Ghz I "borrowed" here at work... ;-P
<\sh> so today everyone is doing nightshifts? ,-)
<\sh> siretart: ping
<slomo> sistpoty: are you sure that changing the control.in is enough? i had packages which wanted both control files changed
<\sh> siretart: can I use tiber as well for building with pbuilder?
<sistpoty> slomo: no, it isn't... damn!
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, i'll do it for you ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: thx... just run update-haskell-control (from hmake)
<slomo> sistpoty: oh no... i don't want to install all the haskell crap again ;) can i edit it by hand? :P
<sistpoty> slomo: not really... it *should* bail out then (which for whatever reasons) didn't do it
<sistpoty> slomo: it's in package haskell-utils, actually ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, give me a new debdiff then ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: mom ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/debdiffs/haskell-http_1build1_to_1ubuntu1.debdiff
<sistpoty> wow, i named it the same :)
<slomo> Hunk #1 FAILED at 1.
<slomo> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/changelog.rej
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> next try please ;)
<sistpoty> hm... did you try a clean 1build1`
<sistpoty> ? even
<slomo> oh
<slomo> build1
<slomo> ;)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Did you have any luck with xprint?
<sistpoty> bddebian: not yet... but i paused this one as it should eventually be morgued
<slomo> sistpoty: uploaded
<sistpoty> bddebian: i wrote daniels a mail, but didn't get an answer yet
<sistpoty> slomo: thx :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Ahh :-)
<siretart> re
<bddebian> wb siretart :-)
<siretart> \sh: sure. I'm using pbuilder on tiber, too. Tipp: use parameter -buildresult for using subdirectory of pwd
<\sh> siretart: check my ~/bin dir...there is a nice script
<siretart> mom
<\sh> siretart: and in pbuilder/etc/ there are the configs ;)
<siretart> aah, the distribution pbuilders. sweet!
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> i found an example in /usr/share/docs/pbuilder/example
<\sh> s
<siretart> \sh: I think you need to name it pbuilder-breezy to work
<\sh> no
<\sh> running now on tiber ;)
<\sh> breezy create ;)
<spayne> \sh: can i ask you a favour?
<\sh> spayne: if it's not a new package, yes :)
<spayne> \sh: can you see if 7032F238 is in the strong set. i am meeting him on saturday
<zyga_> spayne: jim, he's a person not a fingerprint!
<siretart> spayne: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/7032F238.html
<spayne> thanks
<spayne> \sh: what is your key id
<siretart> spayne: hint: use launchpad ;)
<\sh> C098EFA8
<spayne> looks good: http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/paths/0x7032F238-0xC098EFA8.png
<LaserJock> what are the chances of getting dvi2ps and wterm synced from Debian?
<crimsun> have you verified that they don't need to be merged?
<\sh> LaserJock: request by elmo on -devel and "allowed by \sh"
<\sh> LaserJock: are u whitelisted?
<\sh> LaserJock: did u test the packages?
<dholbach> does it build in pbuilder, install?
<LaserJock> not yet i guess, I sent any email but haven't gotten a reply, yes I did test them
<dholbach> the debian packages?
<LaserJock> yep
<dholbach> that's a no go
<Greg_Wah> Eclipse won't install on Breezy with apt
<\sh> now we have chaos ;)
<\sh> the "not yet" was for "whitelisted"
<Greg_Wah> whoops,w rong channel
<\sh> and the "yep" for the pbuilder test?
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I took the Debian source and built them in pbuilder then installed them
<slomo> Greg_Wah: why? on which arch?
<dholbach> ok
<Greg_Wah> slomo: i386,
<Greg_Wah> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Greg_Wah>   eclipse-sdk: Depends: eclipse-jdt (= 3.1.1-1ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed
<Greg_Wah>                Depends: eclipse-pde (= 3.1.1-1ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed
<Greg_Wah> E: Broken packages
<LaserJock> so I should talk to elmo on -devel is that right?
<slomo> Greg_Wah: works fine here... maybe do an apt-get update?
<crimsun> Greg_Wah: looks fine here.
<blueyed> Greg_Wah: same error here..
<moyogo> i'm getting /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so: undefined reference to `pango_fc_font_create_metrics_for_context'
<sistpoty> Greg_Wah: seems to work fine here as well
<moyogo> when trying to build stuff that needs pango
<moyogo> anybody knows how to fix this?
<bddebian> w00t, I think I'm back in business..
<sistpoty> congrats bddebian
<slomo> \sh: your clisp sync fails everywhere :(
<blueyed> Greg_Wah: tracks down to "mozilla-browser: Depends: libnspr4 (= 2:1.7.12-0ubuntu2) but 2:1.7.12-0ubuntu05.04 is to be installed" here..?!
<crimsun> blueyed: kill the bp
<\sh> slomo: no...amd64 not
<slomo> \sh: oh, you're right... hmm
<slomo> \sh: then it's a funny package... builds on the problem-architecture and fails everywhere else ;) congrats :P
<bddebian> \sh: Did you do cyphesis-cpp already?  If not, I think I can do it now
<blueyed> crimsun: yep.. :/ Have disabled it since a while, but this seems to have stuck.
<\sh> bddebian: no...
<\sh> slomo: it build here on i386
<slomo> hm
<Lathiat> ghc5 stuff was supposed to be morgued right?
<sistpoty> yes, it was
<sistpoty> Lathiat: I have sent elmo a mail to morgue it about two weeks ago... no answer yet :(
<\sh> any ffmpeg specialists here? slomo you are the mmedia guy ;)
<blueyed> Greg_Wah: try "sudo apt-get install libnspr4/breezy"
<crimsun> \sh: what's up?
<slomo> \sh: i hate ffmpeg... but tell me what's wrong ;)
<\sh> crimsun: motion package
<\sh> apt-get source motion ;)
<slomo> ftbfs?
<crimsun> if it's choking on libavcodec, it probably needs a configure hack to make it link against libavutil
<\sh> it complains about our version of ffmpeg
* ogra tries \sh's suggestion
<\sh> and ftbfs in the ocean
* ogra doesnt feel accelerated ...
<bddebian> heh
<Greg_Wah> I've apt-get dist-upgraded
<Greg_Wah> and apt-get update so the problem lies not there
<Greg_Wah> blueyed: will do
<crimsun> Greg_Wah: you must have only Ubuntu repos in your sources.list
<\sh> ogra: hum? what suggestion?
<blueyed> crimsun: but he already has that package from bp
<ogra> \sh, apt-get source motion
<\sh> hehe
<Greg_Wah> blueyed: Selected version 2:1.7.12-0ubuntu2 (Ubuntu:5.10/breezy) for libnspr4
<Greg_Wah> libnspr4 is already the newest version.
<blueyed> Greg_Wah: use "/breezy"! copy'n'paste
<blueyed> it will "downgrade"
<Greg_Wah> crimsun: I'm fairly sure I do, are multiverse and universe included in that?
<crimsun> Greg_Wah: not by default. You have to enable them.
<Greg_Wah> blueyed: I did copy and paste "sudo apt-get install libnspr4/breezy" exactly
<blueyed> Greg_Wah: then it's probably another problem.. you can track it down by following the packages that error.. like "sudo apt-get install eclipse-jdt".. and see where this errors (and how).
<Greg_Wah> leads me to libgcj6 which I apparently have the newest version of
<Greg_Wah> before that, I get   libgcj6-awt: Depends: libgcj6 (= 4.0.1-4ubuntu9) but 4.0.2-1 is to be installed
<bddebian> dholbach: Did you get anywhere with tyvis?
<dholbach> not really
<bddebian> Or do you not have i386?
<dholbach> i'm now doing a couple of test installs
<dholbach> yes i do
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyTestPlan
<bddebian> Ahh
<dholbach> that's what i do atm
<bddebian> So you've abandoned us again eh? ;-P
<dholbach> sorry for that
<dholbach> i'm horrible
<bddebian> Bah :-)
<slomo> Greg_Wah: where did you get your gcc from? we are at 4.0.1-something in breezy... 4.0.2 is only in debian afaik
<Greg_Wah> slomo: think I probably got it from some debian repo's before this computer was networked, can/should I downgrade?
<siretart> slomo: gcc --version is 4.0.2 for me (breezy/x86)
<slomo> siretart: yes but it's a prerelease ;)
<slomo> siretart: gcc (GCC) 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu9)
<siretart> *shrug*
<siretart> ;)
<slomo> Greg_Wah: ok, then that's your problem ;)
<bddebian> dholbach: See, this is what I get on i386:  tyvis/UniversalLongLongInteger.cc:107: error: integer constant is too large for 'long' type
<Greg_Wah> lol
<Greg_Wah> ouch
<\sh> bddebian: which version of libgcrypt?
<bddebian> \sh: I've got it thanks.  It's libgcrypt11-dev
<\sh> ah
<\sh> bddebian: should I build?
<bddebian> \sh: If you want to, but I can do it now if you have better things to do :-)
<\sh> bddebian: no just building ...
<\sh> bddebian: I'm pbuilding now on 2 machines ;)
<HiddenWolf> How complete/stable/done is xubuntu?
<LaserJock> is Universe synced to Debian testing or unstable?
<dholbach> sid
<LaserJock> hhmm, ok
<shawarma> Do you guys know what really rocks?
<ajmitch> morning all
<ajmitch> shawarma: breezy!
<LaserJock> morning ajmitch (actually it's afternoon here, but whatever)
<shawarma> Sitting in an auditorium for a math lecture and taking a look around at all the people sitting there with their laptops.. Around 50% of them are still lost and are running Windows. The rest... They all run Ubuntu. The earth-like colors are very revealing.
<ajmitch> haha
<shawarma> That was a  REALLY cool revelation for me.
<ajmitch> impressive :)
<shawarma> I love the feeling that I've played an - although tiny- part in making that happen. That stuff is great motivation.
<ajmitch> :)
* ajmitch wishes he could have played a bigger part in making breezy happen
<slomo> hi ajmitch :)
<shawarma> me too
<\sh> bddebian: uploaded
<ajmitch> but at least I get to be in the presence of the Masters of the Universe :)
<slomo> shawarma: so many people running ubuntu at your university? at mine it's over 90% running windows... :(
<bddebian> \sh: Damn you.. ;-P
<\sh> ajmitch: you sound like bddebian now..this is not your part ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: I could never hope to be as good as bddebian :)
<bddebian> FU
<ajmitch> excuse me?
<bddebian> :-)
<shawarma> slomo: The university even recommend running Linux to their students.
<bddebian> ajmitch: So help me fix tyvis :-)
<shawarma> slomo: Well, they do from the third semester.
<ajmitch> bddebian: can't
<shawarma> slomo: When that semester starts, I'm going to be there with a batch of Dapper CD's.
<ajmitch> bddebian: I don't have your skills :)
<ajmitch> s/skills/stubbornness/ :)
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> rock, hopefully 20051012.2 is the very last & final iso for release
<shawarma> bddebian: What's tyvis?
<bddebian> shawarma: Dunno but I'm trying to fix it :-)
<ajmitch> some antique electronics package that noone uses
<ajmitch> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?popcon=tyvis
<ogra> ajmitch, did you try it too during cxx transition ?
<ogra> didnt
<LaserJock> when, was Breezy synced with Debian, at the very beginning?
<ajmitch> ogra: not that I recall
<ogra> LaserJock, all the time until UVF
<LaserJock> an automatic sync?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> for all unmodified stuff
<shawarma> bddebian: apt-cache search tyvis only gives a -dev package... That's odd.
<LaserJock> I ask because I am working on scipy and the Debian package is from January and we have a package that is earlier
<ogra> shawarma, apt-cache showsrc tyvis
<ogra> shawarma, binary packages are for #ubuntu ;)
<bddebian> shawarma: Or apt-cache madison tyvis
<ogra> LaserJock, so nobody cared to sync it
<shawarma> bddebian: what the fsck...
<shawarma> bddebian: What's madison?
<bddebian> Good question
<LaserJock> ogra, thanks. that sucks but ok
<shawarma> bddebian: Oh, well.. Why does tyvis need fixing?
<ogra> LaserJock, easy fix... become a MOTU !
<bddebian> shawarma: Because it FTBFSs.  Here is the first error:
<bddebian>  tyvis/UniversalLongLongInteger.cc:107: error: integer constant is too large for 'long' type
<ogra> shawarma, it doesnt build with gcc4
<shawarma> ogra: Isn't it good enough if it builds with gcc3.4?
<bddebian> But it builds on amd64.  Can you even use INT64_MAX on i386?
<ogra> its a fallback, yes...
<shawarma> ogra: Well, since the release is tomorrow, it seems a bit out of place fixing the code to compile with gcc4..
<slomo> bddebian: sure... you also have a 64bit int type on x86... long long
<ogra> shawarma, depends :)
<bddebian> slomo: Then why does this fail? ;-P
<LaserJock> if a packes needs a sync from Debian + ubuntu stuff do you have to sync from debian first?
<ogra> shawarma, you wont get around testbuilding it several times either way
<shawarma> bddebian: Because it should be long long instead of long?
<bddebian> LaserJock: No
<slomo> bddebian: because INT64_MAX is put into a long/int/short/whatever?
<bddebian> Hmm
<ogra> LaserJock, you merge them manually
<shawarma> ogra: Exactly.. That's why I suppose the safer choice is gcc3.4. But who am I to teach you guys..
<dholbach> gcc3.4 will be abandoned soon
<ogra> shawarma, go ahead, try it, if it works we'll happily accept it
<ogra> dholbach, not in breezy
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> SOON
<Nafallo> dholbach: and then we morgue the kernel? :-)
<ogra> as long as the kernel needs it it wont :)
<dholbach> and we have very old software in the archive, so yes, gcc3.4 can be used
<dholbach> i meant upstream wise
<dholbach> guys, you are all so picky today :)
<dholbach> what's wrong?
<slomo> dholbach: abandoned? i don't think so... at least kept as an option like all other gcc version ;)
<ogra> dholbach, 12h sleep during 6 days ?
<slomo> ogra: hmm, the kernel still doesn't work with 4.0? uh
<dholbach> slomo: upstream
<shawarma> ogra: Yeah, that'll make anyone grumpy.
<Nafallo> grumpy groundhog :-)
<ogra> shawarma, half the crew is in this state... dholbach too he just pretends to be fresh to encourage us all to not stop the work... ;)
<shawarma> I was thinking.... After tomorrow, what do we do about bugfixes? Are they totally off limits?
<dholbach> yeah guys? are you restless? bored?
<ogra> hehe
<dholbach> you think everythings fixed? all CDs tested already?
<dholbach> here! we! go! :)
<shawarma> I for one don't think it was very cool that mplayer in hoary never was able to play DVD's because of the ac3-bug.. That sort of thing should really be allowed to be fixed, IMO.
<Nafallo> well, ENOBANDWIDTH :-P
<Nafallo> shawarma: bug slomo about media-stuff ;-)
<dredg> holy crap perl is evil
<dredg> and by perl i mean cpan
<dredg> and by cpan i mean "weh! :("
<bddebian> hmmm:
<bddebian> tyvis/UniversalLongLongInteger.cc:107: error: call of overloaded 'UniversalLongLongInteger(long long int)' is ambiguous
<ogra> long long int ?
<slomo> long long int == long long... doesn't matter which one you use afaik
<ogra> probably gcc4 is a bit more stricht about "doesn't matter which one you use afaik" ;)
<ogra> strict too
<slomo> probably... wouldn't surprise me ;)
<slomo> with 3.X it worked :P
<bddebian> So make it long long ?
<slomo> bddebian: try it
<dsas> To close or otherwise edit the statuses of malone bugs I presume I need some form of special privileges ?
<\sh> dholbach: ping...is glimmer saying anything to you?
<shawarma> glimmer? The editor?
<dholbach> \sh: yes, i did something to it ages ago
<shawarma> Does that even exist anymore?
<\sh> dholbach: could u have a new look on it when u have time during the night ?,-)
<\sh> or anybody else with enough gtk knowledge
<slomo> \sh: why? what fails?
<slomo> i have nothing to do atm ;)
<\sh> slomo: a lot
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't even see it doing long long int
<shawarma> Wasn't glimmer superseded by something else? Or was it the other way around?
<bddebian> slomo: Help me fix this :-)
<dholbach> thanks slomo
<dholbach> brb
<slomo> \sh: i'll take a look
<slomo> \sh: "Latest Release: Thursday January 10, 2002"
<slomo> haha
<slomo> oh i remember... i used it in a previous life ;)
<\sh> slomo: should I quote elmo?
<slomo> \sh: no, let me first see the problem... maybe we can fix it ;)
<slomo> but it should be a valid morgue candidate otherwise... but elmo doesn't like to remove stuff it seems...
<\sh> o-voice elmo: it's not a morgue candidate, if you can't fix the source right now ;)
<\sh> it needs to be a real serious request
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> ok =)
<slomo> but at some point we should remove all the gtk 1.2 crap ;P
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> hmmmm...?
<\sh> hmmmmm.....!!!
<slomo> hmhm?!
<\sh> my ex' mind is somehow not ok
<\sh> if I understand the last sms correctly, she would like to try a new beginning
<slomo> hmm... why is this odd?
<xhaker> i  find it way odd
<xhaker> since i don't know what is he talking about
<\sh> xhaker: forget it :) I'm only thinking loud
* bddebian gets no love.. :'-(
<xhaker> hehe.. first time i read i read it ex-wife.. but then it's not what it says
<slomo> bddebian: what's up?
* xhaker hands bddebian some botled love.. 
<\sh> xhaker: it's my ex-gf...but after 7 years it's more ex-wife ;)
<bddebian> Yikes
<bddebian> slomo: I can't find where it's declaring long long int
<\sh> this would be funny....breezy release and getting my girl back?
<ajmitch> \sh: hmm?
<ajmitch> \sh: you think it might work out?
<ajmitch> see, breezy makes your life just.. breezy ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: honestly normally a 2nd try never worked for me...so I'm quite puzzled now
<\sh> (speaking of relationships)
<xhaker> i'm actually giving my gf her second oportunity now.. after 2 years
* ajmitch is more at the 'friend' stage
<slomo> bddebian: hm? long long shouldn't be declared somewhere... you can use it out of the box ;) or what do you mean?
<xhaker> after i seperated from her.. she kinda tricked me to go with her spend some holidays on a sunny island.. damn woman.. she tricked me right
<slomo> \sh: glimmer seems to be easy
<\sh> slomo: k...I'm trying to fix some gnustep apps now
* ajmitch is going to visit parents for weekend - will have to upgrade the hoary installed on their laptop ;)
<shawarma> \sh: In Denmark we have a proverb: "Never go back to a fuser" where fuser is piece of fireworks that didn't go off..
<slomo> \sh: where did you get the glimmer request from?
<\sh> slomo: i386 ftbfs list
<slomo> \sh: "<\sh> it needs to be a real serious request" <--- ?
<shawarma> Oh! Just talked to my girlfriend. She won't be home for almost another hour, so I have time to fix a few things... Where to look?
<shawarma> Do we have a prioritized list?
<\sh> slomo: that belonged to the morgue stuff
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<\sh> ^ shawarma
<shawarma> got it
<\sh> shawarma: please check the list of already done packages..cause until now, I didn't remove all my packages e.g. :(
<\sh> shawarma: and the universeftbfs<arch>-lists are binary packages
<\sh> Nafallo: wow..works ;)
<bddebian> slomo: UniversalLongLongInteger is declared as long long int somewhere I think but I don't see where.  Of course I don't know C++ for shit either
<Nafallo> \sh: :-)
<shawarma> bddebian: Are you using pbuilder?
<Nafallo> \sh: surprised? ;-)
<bddebian> shawarma: Yep
<slomo> bddebian: oh no... what package is it?
<\sh> Nafallo: I can't see this happening with the nick, when I'm disconnecting ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: hihi :-)
<bddebian> slomo: tyvis
<slomo> bddebian: i believe i looked at it and was unable to fix it ;)
<shawarma> bddebian: You're not forgetting to build a new source package before throwing it at pbuilder? I did that a while ago and just couldn't  understand why the stuff I was fixing never took effect.
<slomo> bddebian: but i hate c++... so maybe that's the problem ;)
<shawarma> bddebian: Needless to say, I felt pretty dumb, but that's the stuff I start doing when I've been at it for hours and hours..
<bddebian> slomo: Nah, that isn't my problem this go-round but I have done that :-)
<ajmitch> shawarma: don't worry, I did some fairly dumb things trying to upload at 3am this morning ;)
<ajmitch> luckily I caught them before I destroyed the universe
<shawarma> ajmitch: Oh  my.. surely it wasn't that bad?
<slomo> \sh: fixed... do you have another one? ;)
<\sh> slomo: check the list ;)
<\sh> there are a lot ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: which list? FTBFS?
<\sh> jepp
* ajmitch is busy at work now, probably can't do much till release :(
<Nafallo> when will universe close?
<\sh> tomorrow...we need a deadline somehow
<bddebian> slomo: xgsmlib, boson-base ;-P
<Nafallo> damn we need a better system than wikipages for those stuff...
<bddebian> Nafallo: Aye
<LaserJock> I agree
<slomo> Nafallo++
<slomo> so make one ;)
<Nafallo> must be some nice system already done somewhere?
<bddebian> A table with checkmarks for each arch? :-)
<bddebian> s/checkmarks/checkboxes
<slomo> bddebian: i'll take a look at those two... thanks ;)
<slomo> \sh: too bad we didn't get a fix for that evolution freeze :(
<LaserJock> what's the best way to get a sync from  elmo? email?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: yes, if he doesn't answer on IRC
<slomo> glimmer_1.2.1-4ubuntu2_source.changes REJECTED
<slomo> Rejected: Uploads to hoary are not accepted.
<slomo> oh no =)
<bddebian> OK, time to head home and see if I can salvage my laptop.  Later gang
<\sh> slomo: yeah
<bddebian> slomo: ;-)
<slomo> \sh: i already deleted it :P
<Nafallo> slomo: lol. never delete before katie tell you to :-P.
<\sh> slomo: tsts
<Unfrgiven> hi all :)
<Unfrgiven> not long to go now!
<slomo> ha, pbuilder did a backup for me :)
<Nafallo> slomo: :-)
<Unfrgiven> can anyone give me a hand in packaging the intro developer docs?
<Unfrgiven> im currently (frantically) trying to finish the worked example section and simultaneously test that the document is accurate
<Unfrgiven> if someone could in the meanwhile create a package for me that would be great
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: I'd really like to see it exported as PDF :)
<ajmitch> since OOo2 is an unwieldy beast
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: i'll be doing so. i plan to ship it as a pdf and odt
<ajmitch> I was struggling to read the docs because of OOo slowness
<ajmitch> great
<Unfrgiven> OOo2 does export to pdf.
<ajmitch> I know
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: are you able to give me a hand with it?
<ajmitch> at work at the moment
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: doh. when does the universe rep for breezy close?
<ajmitch> 'real soon now'
<Unfrgiven> anyone else here able to help?
<Unfrgiven> if it doesnt get packaged, it wont make the cut :(
<ajmitch> you haven't got it packaged yet?
<Unfrgiven> no. yesterday i got home close to midnight :(
<ajmitch> man you're cutting it real fine :)
<Unfrgiven> ive been sleeping like 5 hrs a night for the last week, im shattered so i couldn't do it last night
<ajmitch> since it still has to pass NEW
<Unfrgiven> work has been killing me
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: what do you recommend?
<slomo> ajmitch: elmo is fast with NEW today... needed 20 minutes for one package earlier today ;)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: i havent made the package yet. all i have is the odt right now. im looking for someone to give me a hand packaging it
<ajmitch> someone *please * help Unfrgiven get this in
* ajmitch has to actually do work today :(
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven: what are you packaging?
<Unfrgiven> intro developer docs
<slomo> Unfrgiven: what kind of package is it? i can make one if you don't mind... would be faster than telling you everything
<Unfrgiven> it was a breezy goal.
<slomo> where can one get them?
<Unfrgiven> slomo: http://ankur.ath.cx/ubuntu/IntroDeveloperDoc_v0.05.odt
<Unfrgiven> slomo: it needs to be exported to pdf as well.
<Unfrgiven> ill be uploading a new version of the document soon
<slomo> ok... and what should happen with this? should it go into /usr/share/doc/introdeveloperdoc or what?
<Lathiat> slomo: warning
<Lathiat> err
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven:
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven: capital U in Ubuntu
<Lathiat> in the archive URLs
<Lathiat> at least in the chroot bit
<Lathiat> cd Debian too
<Unfrgiven> Lathiat: damn. search and replace mistake. ill fix it
<Lathiat> lots of auto-capitalization issues
<Lathiat> also your top logo looks a little top squished
<Lathiat> looks nifty otherwise
<Unfrgiven> slomo: package name: introdeveloperdocs. dir: /usr/share/doc/introdeveloperdocs
<Lathiat> Debian/patches/00list
<Lathiat> right at the bottom too
<Lathiat> so yeh, check all the ubuntu/debian caps
<Lathiat> and im off to bed
<Lathiat> since its 6am
<LaserJock> can I get a MOTU to look at/upload a python-scipy debdiff for me?
<slomo> Unfrgiven: nothing more? that would be really easy to do...
<sistpoty> did you get the tyvis issue sorted out?
<Unfrgiven> Lathiat: thanks a ton :)
<ivoks> champain anyone? :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: why?
<slomo> ivoks: not yet :P
<ivoks> slomo: when? :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: after release? ;-)
<LaserJock> anybody?
<slomo> Unfrgiven: short and long description?
<ivoks> it's 13th allready :)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: short: an introductory look at packaging applications for Ubuntu.
<sistpoty> ivoks: no, it's not ;)
<ivoks> it is in new zeland :)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: long: The following document attempts to describe the process of creating Debian packages. The target audience of this document is aimed at experienced Ubuntu/Debian users and prospective developers. The concepts in the document are backed up with examples so that readers may participate.
<sistpoty> hehe ivoks
<slomo> Unfrgiven: copyright notes?
<slomo> Unfrgiven: is there some commandline utility to convert odt to pdf? i only know three with GUI ;)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: copyright: GPL2
<Unfrgiven> slomo: not sure about the CLI utility.... wonder if anyone else knows?
<ajmitch> not without writing an OOo macro
<ajmitch> from what a quick google search shows
<ivoks> ajmitch: so, it 13th there? :)
<ajmitch> of course
<ivoks> ajmitch: where is champaine? :)
<slomo> ok, Unfrgiven give me a pdf then which fullfills your needs ;) the one i created doesn't look good in evince...
<ajmitch> ivoks: no release yet..
<ivoks> ajmitch: ah, couple of hours...
<Unfrgiven> slomo: im going to drop the ubuntu logo as the OOo2 pdf creator doesn't seem to like it.
<slomo> ajmitch: is it ok to ship something released under gpl without the "source"? i.e. only the pdf?
<slomo> Unfrgiven: yes, that was my problem too :(
<Unfrgiven> slomo: can't we ship the odt and the pdf?
<slomo> Unfrgiven: ok, sounds better... we'll do that
<LaserJock> sorry for asking again but can I get somebody to look at debdiff / upload for me?
<\sh> oh good morning germany...it's breezy badgers day
<\sh> please stay tuned until universe is fixed ;)
<\sh> LaserJock: where's the diff?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-18
<LaserJock> http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/python-scipy_0.3.2-7ubuntu1.debdiff
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hi dude
<doko> slomo: Are you Christian Droege?
<sistpoty> he is
<slomo> doko: that's my brother
<slomo> doko: i'm sebastian
<sistpoty> hehe... damn reading too fast *g*
<sistpoty> sorry
<doko> slomo: and his nick?
<slomo> doko: he's Hirion_
<\sh> LaserJock: what is 7ubuntu1 ?
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
<Hirion_> doko: ?
<\sh> LaserJock: we have only 3ubuntu3 in our archives
<LaserJock> I know that is why it is FTBFS
<doko> Hirion_: it doesn't make sense to shout "me to" in bug reports, please add information, _how_ you can produce the stack trace
<\sh> ok..then tell me, I have to grab debian sources and merge ;)
<LaserJock> sorry
<Unfrgiven> slomo: im just finishing off the worked example section. ill upload a newer version shortly. thanks for all your help so far by the way.
<\sh> LaserJock: np
<LaserJock> I just debdiffed from what we had
<\sh> LaserJock: u mean u debdiffed from 3ubuntu3?
<LaserJock> yes
<\sh> ug
<\sh> can u debdiff from -7 ?
<LaserJock> yes
<\sh> thx
<Hirion_> doko: sorry. I only started eclipse and I had the same result as the bug reporter (I didn't do anything else)
<LaserJock> try it now
<slomo> Unfrgiven: ok, the package is ready so far
<\sh> LaserJock: is it the debdiff or the diff.gz?
<\sh> argl...forget it
<\sh> wrong stuff in cnp buffer
<LaserJock> The debdiff is from the Debian -7 to my -7ubuntu1
<\sh> LaserJock: K
<\sh> LaserJock: just building insight and then python-scipy testbuild
<LaserJock> ok, thx
<slomo> \sh, sistpoty: i need you two soon to advocate that package ;) and you seem to be the only people awake atm...
<\sh> slomo: k
<sistpoty> slomo: I'm no motu yet... (but I have admin-rights on revu *g*)
<sistpoty> slomo: but if it's ok, I'll take a look
<sistpoty> hi mbreit
<slomo> sistpoty: ok... nevermind ;)
<slomo> mbreit: i need you soon :P
<\sh> slomo: which name?
<mbreit> hi all
<slomo> \sh: wait a moment please
<slomo> \sh: i'm currently uploading
<mbreit> what's the current status of the release? and is there something i can do now?
<sistpoty> slomo: when it's up, just say so, i will poke at revu then ;)
<ogra> mbreit, grab somthing from the lists
<\sh> mbreit: help slomo to approve one last NEW package for breezy
<slomo> sistpoty: now
<ogra> ftbfs or unmet deps...
<\sh> ogra: hey...
<ogra> hey
<\sh> ogra: happy badger day to you ;)
<slomo> \sh: the files themself are not the final ones... but i won't change anything except that later ;)
<sistpoty> grml... imo something went wrong
<mbreit> okay, then i will start with reviewing slomo's package
<slomo> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=787
<ogra> \sh, hehe, thanks... its soo exciting here... just copying my final CD going to test in 30min :)
<ogra> and it looks ok i think even if its lacking features
<sistpoty> phew... only some error because of native package :) should be all there
<\sh> slomo: no native packages dude
<slomo> \sh: even with this kind of stuff?
<\sh> slomo: ay....pdf
<slomo> \sh: non-native wouldn't make sense here imho
<\sh> yeah
<sistpoty> slomo: i just triggered revu-build
<slomo> sistpoty: thanks :)
<sistpoty> build done :)
<\sh> ogra: I'm fixing last packages
<ogra> i see :)
<\sh> 1 pbuild 2 in queue
<mbreit> slomo: looks good...
<slomo> \sh: hehe, almost the same for me ;) 1 in pbuilder, 1 in queue and 1 on revu ;)
<slomo> mbreit: ok, thanks for looking at it :)
<mbreit> slomo: it could suggest to some pdf-reader... but i think it's okay now
<slomo> mbreit: what about suggesting pdf-viewer? ;)
<\sh> slomo: u have my ok
<\sh> slomo: then suggest as well ooo ;)
<mbreit> slomo: that would be good... perhaps it shoud even depend on that....
<\sh> mbreit: no...only recommends or suggests
<mbreit> slomo: ah, no depend... works also with ooo ;)
<mbreit> \sh: ack
<slomo> ok, how is the main ooo package called?
<slomo> openoffice.org2?
<slomo> btw, abiword and koffice should also be able to view it ;)
<\sh> openoffice.org2
<slomo> Suggests: pdf-viewer | openoffice.org2 | abiword | koffice
<slomo> ok?
<mbreit> ahhh.... is it too late to deal with lincvs? it should be synced to debian, but has been moved to unstable... so not an easy issue...
<mbreit> s/unstable/non-free/
<mbreit> (too late....)
<slomo> Unfrgiven: now we're only waiting for your final release and elmo to look at NEW afterwards... i hope he does it before release...
<mbreit> does anyone know when the release will happen?
<ogra> some time tomorrow
<slomo> no idea... i would guess around 14:00 CEST ;)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: ok no probs. im just wrapping up now.
<\sh> BURN laptop BURN
<slomo> \sh: boson-base is evil :(
<\sh> slomo: I was telling this every time...
<LaserJock> \sh: BTW i'm not whitelisted yet
<\sh> LaserJock: doesn't matter...
<\sh> LaserJock: I won't see katie mails, nor you, but I can read -changes ;)
<LaserJock> ok, bddebian has done stuff for me in the past and something happened because I wasn't whitelisted
<slomo> \sh: there's new upstream... 0.11... but i don't want to update... it will probably break something :/
<\sh> slomo: well...last time I checked new upstream...it was bundled with the old kde kdegames stuff, which didn't work either, because no gcc-4 patches ;)
<slomo> grmpf
<slomo> i'm currently creating the gcc 4 patches ;)
<\sh> worldforge source is crap ;)
<\sh> slomo: u don't want that...they should actual sources
<\sh> +use
<crimsun> we remove packages from $archlist on UniverseFTBFS when we've fixed them, correct?
<slomo> \sh: well, i'll try it ;)
<\sh> crimsun: yes
<\sh> crimsun: but I'm too lazy ;)
<LaserJock> so what happens to UniverseFTBFS once Breezy is released?
<\sh> nothing...we fix it for dapper
<\sh> but it would be nice, if we can get as muched fixed as we can
<\sh> LaserJock: uploaded btw
<Unfrgiven> slomo: done. http://ankur.ath.cx/ubuntu
<LaserJock> \sh: thank you very much.
<Unfrgiven> slomo: you'll see the odt and the pdf there
<slomo> someone should throw some stones at the qt/kde developers... grmpf "Session management error: Could not open network socket"
<slomo> Unfrgiven: ok, thanks :)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: no, thank you :)
<\sh> slomo: this is ok...it's moc stuff ;)
<slomo> \sh: but it is annoying :P
<slomo> Unfrgiven: give me a version number... should this be 1.0? ;)
<crimsun> 5.10 ;)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: yep :)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: i just found a mistake. ill need to upload again
<slomo> Unfrgiven: ok, just read over everything again :)
<Unfrgiven> noob question: i want to do a sudo echo "mychroot /var/chroot" >> /etc/dchroot.conf
<Unfrgiven> but i get permission denied
<crimsun> incorrect syntax
<\sh> crimsun: u rock dude :)
<crimsun> echo "mychroot /var/chroot" | sudo tee -a /etc/dchroot.conf
<Unfrgiven> crimsun: thanks :)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: uploaded :)
<slomo> Unfrgiven: final now?
<Unfrgiven> slomo: as final as i can get it before release
<sistpoty> ' \sh: are you collecting sync requests?
<slomo> Unfrgiven: ok, fine :)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: the plan is to keep working on it. dapper will have a newer version with more stuff in it.
<Unfrgiven> what is the policy on updating packages in breezy? is backports considered to be a viable alternative to providing updates? for example if there are corrections to be made?
<slomo> Unfrgiven: ok?
<slomo> 2f3f141f34ac320a5391c9d142c3b516  IntroDeveloperDoc.odt
<slomo> 4827f1cfa178b298d03ebe1852acba81  IntroDeveloperDoc.pdf
<Unfrgiven> slomo: yep, thats what i have
<\sh> sistpoty: please send them to elmo directly
<slomo> Unfrgiven: ok, uploading
<Unfrgiven> slomo: thank you so much for your help
<slomo> np :)
<slomo> haha, uploading two packages at once ;)
<sistpoty> ok \sh
<Unfrgiven> slomo: how will we know its been accepted into universe? :)
<slomo> Unfrgiven: i'll tell you if i'm faster than breezy-changes ;)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: thanks :)
<Nafallo> errr... dudes.
<Nafallo> seen this: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=64629
<slomo> wtf
<Nafallo> I check the source... it get's worse :-P
<slomo> yes i already looked at the sources... what is this? ;)
<dholbach> ouch
<mbreit> okay now: for anyone on amd64: we have _lots_ of unmet deps on amd64...
<Nafallo> some kind of help-the-user-to-die-faster-tool
<mbreit> amsynth, axiom, bayonne, bibletime, boa-constructor, bochs, bootcd, boson-data, boson-music, buffy, cbmlink, celementtree, commons-daemon, crystalspace-data, cyphesis-cpp, debtags-edit, eclipse, eclipse-nls-sdk, encfs, etpan-ng, euro-support, gcc-defaults
<mbreit> gkrelldnet, gpac, gql, guikachu, guile-core, haskell-cabal, haskell-http, hunit, ibwebadmin, icomlib, imaze, ipmenu, ircd, kexi, konq-shellhere, kwiki, kzenexplorer, libaqhbci, libaqhbci-qt-tools, libprinterconf, libspoon-perl, libspork-perl, manderlbot
<slomo> mbreit: eclipse is fixed
<mbreit> meta-ul, mozart-stdlib, mysql-query-browser, octave-forge, packagesearch, pinball, postgresql-plruby, prc-tools, pyorbit, python-gnome2, python-kinterbasdb, python-visual, pyx, regina-normal, rhdb-admin, ruby1.9, scsh-defaults
<mbreit> selinux-policy-default, sfs, soya-doc, svgalib, tagcolledit, tecnoballz, wine, wstools, xezmlm, xgsmlib, xmms-kde, xpdf, xsp, yacas, yehia
<dholbach> haskell-http and hunit too
<dholbach> what's the matter with xpdf?
<slomo> haskell-cabal is to be morgued
<mbreit> slomo: okay, that list might be a few hours old...
<Nafallo> ehm, I installed celementtree today...
<slomo> python-gnome2 too
<slomo> oh... no... hmm, can you please check if python-gnome2 is really broken?
<Nafallo> what's the script to do that output again?
<Nafallo> found it
<mbreit> dholbach: hmm i have no idea about xpdf... seems to be fine... i don't know why our "unmet-deps-list-generator" put that in
<\sh> mbreit: hurry up to fix them ;)
<mbreit> Nafallo: LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | cut -d' ' -f2 | xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep ^Package | sed 's/Package\://' | sort -u | perl -e'while (<>) { chomp; print($_ . ","); }'
<Nafallo> because it doesn't?
<dholbach> mbreit: i could install every single binary package
<mbreit> dholbach: xpdf seems fine here as well...
<Nafallo> I'll put a brand new on my server...
<mbreit> what's wrong with that script??
<dholbach> somebody debug apt-cache then ;)
<Nafallo> http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/unmet.txt
<slomo> it also looks at suggests, recommends, replaces, conflicts iirc
<slomo> \sh: ok, you won... i'll stop with boson-base ;)
<mbreit> okay, forget my list... i have no idea, but most of the listed packages seem to work fine...
<mbreit> slomo: python-gnome2 works as well
<\sh> slomo: told ya ;)
<slomo> \sh: ugly c++/kde stuff... nothing for me :P we should get more kde motus ;)
<\sh> slomo: I don't touch it
<mbreit> Nafallo: did you generate that list with the same script?
<Nafallo> yes
<sistpoty> slomo: what ugly stuff? boson-base?
<slomo> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> I'll take a look. but i don't promise anything
<sistpoty> *g*
* \sh need a quad xeon
<slomo> sistpoty: forget it... banging the head on the table gives more pleasure ;)
<crimsun> leave ruby1.9, it's an upstream issue
<mbreit> bochs seems broken (unmet deps), i'll try to fix it
<sistpoty> slomo: indeed, headbanging is fun, so why wouldn't boson-base be? *g*
<slomo> sistpoty: but only as long as you don't have a table/wall/something in front of your head ;) well... good luck =) the first few compile errors are easy ones... the hard stuff comes later :P
<sistpoty> hehe... k. i just try how far i get ;)
<slomo> Unfrgiven: "introdeveloperdocs_1.0_source.changes is NEW" :)
<slomo> Unfrgiven: now give elmo a coffee or something... ;)
<dholbach> :)
<Unfrgiven> slomo: :) awesome!
<Unfrgiven> slomo: i havent seen it in breezy-changes
<\sh> Unfrgiven: cause it's NEW
<slomo> Unfrgiven: it will be in breezy-changes after it got accepted by elmo
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u won't see it until elmo freed it
<slomo> is xprint something not to touch?
<Unfrgiven> ah right. so i need to talk to hime to get it accepted?
<ogra> slomo, ask daniels
<Nafallo> ehm, can't mdz and/or Kamion do that now?
<ogra> slomo, i think its obsolete
<sistpoty> hehe ogra, i wanted to suggest this
<Nafallo> NEW that is...
<ogra> :)
* ogra is bored, watching test installs ...
<slomo> ogra: ok, i won't touch it then... i had something like that in my memory so you're most probably right ;)
<ogra> he's in devel and can give the final call :=
<sistpoty> slomo: read it?
<ogra> :)
<\sh> what the heck
<slomo> sistpoty: ?
<\sh> waaahhh
<sistpoty> slomo: i just asked daniels in -devel
<\sh> amarok-1.3.3 crash ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: bout xprint
<ogra> \sh, yay
<ogra> \sh, i said you were right :)
<mbreit> does anyone know why there is no svgalib on amd64?
<slomo> sistpoty: narf...
<\sh> ogra: yeah...but it costs me 3 weeks of my life...believe me...even when I was right
<dholbach> i'm so happy you all took care of the last minute fixing
<\sh> dholbach: I'm not finished
<sistpoty> dholbach: is breezy closed?
<dholbach> no, not yet :)
<dholbach> did your read jdub's comment some minutes ago?
<Unfrgiven> slomo: do i need to chat to elmo about the package? i missed your response last time i asked :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: yep... he didn't really get it that he was late at first *g*
<dholbach> but he makes fun of himself... i liked that :)
<slomo> Unfrgiven: no... he will do it himself when he got time for it ;) but as it's a breezy goal... maybe ask mdz or kamion in -devel... afaik they can move stuff from NEW too atm
<sistpoty> dholbach: sure :)
<\sh> dholbach: what jdub said? I'm just busy between my pbuilder ;)
<dholbach> jdub righto
<dholbach> jdub i'm here
<dholbach> jdub ubuntu-artwork update coming in a moment
<dholbach> 20 minutes ago :-p
<\sh> ah
<crimsun> jdub's sense of humour is tremendous.
<dholbach> :)
<HiddenWolf> it's not nice, I was all excited. :P
<dholbach> ...
<dholbach> man, ...
<dholbach> (words fail me)
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, yeah, I haven't got anything better to do.
<ogra> dholbach,
<dholbach> i see
<ogra> ogra@honk:~ $ man ...
<ogra> Kein Manual-Eintrag fr ... vorhanden
<ogra> doesnt work :)
<HiddenWolf> haha
<ogra> oh, i missed the comma
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, I fondly remember that toasting hackers gdm theme from hoary. :)
<Nafallo> wow
<dholbach> haha, that was brilliant :)
<Nafallo> users are odd
<Nafallo> this one thought ubuntu-desktop was something to write on the cds prompt
<sistpoty> Nafallo: got a link somewhere?
<sistpoty> Nafallo: for the theme?
<Nafallo> sistpoty: ehm?
<Nafallo> what theme?
<ogra> Nafallo, gdm
<sistpoty> arg... i'm getting tired... HiddenWolf even ;)
<Nafallo> ah :-P
<HiddenWolf> sistpoty, what?
<sistpoty> [01:48:18]  <HiddenWolf> dholbach, I fondly remember that toasting hackers gdm theme from hoary. :)
<HiddenWolf> used to be an image of a toasting mark/jdub/etc on the releasedate for hoary.
<sistpoty> hehe
<HiddenWolf> can't find a link, but search on the forums, there was quite an uproar
<Nafallo> oh?
<Nafallo> wasn't that 1st of April?
<Nafallo> and went to warty-updates to :-P
<HiddenWolf> Nafallo, yeah, could be. :P
<HiddenWolf> Nafallo, people wheren't amused tho.
<Nafallo> I remember :-)
<Nafallo> my girlfriend screamed a bit till I explained who to people where ;-)
<Nafallo> mark, elmo, matt and jdub IIRC
<Nafallo> take or leave jdub :-P
<dholbach> http://www.livejournal.com/users/lifeguardasleep/22249.html
<Nafallo> http://www.postneo.com/2005/04/01/ubuntu-april-fools-gag
<Nafallo> yepp, leave jdub ;-)
<sistpoty> cool, thx
<LaserJock> \sh: can you take a look at another debdiff or am I too late?
<slomo> LaserJock: i can take a look
<\sh> LaserJock: no
<\sh> or slomo take it
<LaserJock> slomo: http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/pyx_0.7.1-1ubuntu2.debdiff
* \sh needs 4 more hands and 2 more laptops
<crimsun> I'll look at it
<crimsun> you guys keep truckin'
<slomo> crimsun: ok, thanks ;)
* sistpoty needs a bigger brain and a faster machine
<mbreit> grr... I think that I will give up now.... I can't find any bug I can fix... everything I looked at is broken on amd64, has been fixed in a newer version but does not build because someone added libsvga to the build-depends :(((
<slomo> sistpoty: hehe, same here :)
<crimsun> mbreit: then stomp it and add the [i386]  qualifier after libsvga*
<whiprush> #ubuntu-sounder for fridge-related and general chitchat
<whiprush> dholbach: see YOU there!
<mbreit> crimsun: that would be an idea... but I have no more time... I have to go to bed soon and I will be busy tomorrow so it makes no sense to do big changes (no time to test and fix if something breakes :(( )
<ogra> mbreit, look if libvgs is reall needed
<ogra> libvga
<ogra> most apps have a -x2
<ogra> -x11 option
<crimsun> mbreit: nothing wrong with postponing it til Dapper.
<ogra> or --with-x
<crimsun> ogra, dude you need some sleep
<crimsun> :)
<ogra> 2 installs to go :)
<mbreit> crimsun: that's all unmet deps... bochs-wx and pinball are currently not installable in breezy :(
<ogra> and still no DVD in sight... the rsync will run til tomorrow
<crimsun> mbreit: ok, I'll look at bochs-wx and pinball then.
<dholbach> ogra: same here :(
<ogra> mbreit, i'm sure pinball is buildable without svga
<crimsun> yeah, I'd be surprised if it was a hard requirement
<mbreit> crimsun, ogra: i will have a quick look at pinball...
<ogra> libsvgashould die anyway...
<crimsun> mbreit: ok
<mbreit> crimsun: if you would have a look at bochs I owe you a beer or something like that! ;)
* ogra shakes head about KDE
<ogra> how the hell do they manage to have 15MB big langpacks
<mbreit> how do i do a build-depend just for one arch? libsvga-xy [i386]  ?
<crimsun> yes
<slomo> mbreit: yes
<crimsun> otherwise you end up with some sick crack in debian/rules
<crimsun> haha, elmo's comment is classic
<crimsun> '"no rush".. good one'
<crimsun> LaserJock: looks good, uploaded.
<LaserJock> ok, thanks
<LaserJock> You guys ROCK!
<slomo> sistpoty: any look with boson? ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: still building... actually i was a little braindead with dpatch :(
<sistpoty> slomo: from the warnings i fear in massive linker errors, but i'm still fighting with compile errors ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: did you get after that error with this playfield type?
<sistpoty> slomo: not yet
<sistpoty> slomo: still errors before this one
<sistpoty> *G*
<slomo> ok ;)
<slomo> that was the one where i gave up
<crimsun> ok, so we're closed.
<mbreit> aaaargh... i just uploaded a fixed pinball :(
<crimsun> mbreit: no you're fine
<\sh> no
<crimsun> I, like \sh, misinterpreted him
<\sh> 02:17 < Kamion> \sh: I think he means Sainsbury's, not the buildds
<\sh> but now it's your turn
<\sh> I'm just retiring for breezy now...thx for the great work :)
<\sh> slomo: if you request syncs:
<\sh> 	trickle 1.07-4
<\sh> 	bubblemon 2.0.4-3
<mbreit> hehe... we really need a universe-freeze for dapper... and lots of new maintainers and most important: less transitions ;))
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and we'll get less transitions
<\sh> but we will get a lot of merges for dapper...
<slomo> \sh: why don't you tell him that?
<ajmitch> and universe work will have to be of higher quality - more time spent on bugfixing & FTBFS fixing rather than just transitions
<ajmitch> \sh: we'll do those in the first few weeks
<\sh> slomo: no...I'm off
<Nafallo> \sh: merges and override syncs :-)
<slomo> \sh: ok
<ajmitch> \sh: I feel like cracking the whip on merges
<dholbach> we'll see how furhter motu development goes
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> or dholbach can crack the whip if he wants ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: u, bddebian and I doing the merges in 2 days ;)
<dholbach> i don't think there'll be the need to
<ajmitch> hah should be good :)
* Nafallo prints IntroDeveloperDoc.odt :-)
<ajmitch> \sh: or we do all the merges in a drunken UBZ BOF? ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: why not?
<\sh> slomo: bah
<\sh> slomo: don't mention my name
<ajmitch> dholbach: there's a lot of manual checking needed for most merges
<slomo> \sh: sorry... didn't know that :/ what now?
<Unfrgiven> slomo: doesnt look like elmo is keen on taking intro dev docs :(
<\sh> slomo: that's why I said, please address all requests personally to elmo
<LaserJock> so, at what point could a non-MOTU but interested person like me get involved with Dapper?
<\sh> slomo: forget them
<\sh> slomo: I'll send a mail
<ajmitch> LaserJock: as soon as it opens
<slomo> \sh: ok... sorry again :(
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you'd just need to push people to upload for you
<Unfrgiven> \sh: can you include introdevdocs in ur email?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: it would be great if this made it
<LaserJock> how do you work on stuff that isn't installable yet? Do you just adjust your pbuilder? I have been using Breezy the whole time I have been working on packaging
<LaserJock> by not installable, I mean the pre Colony1 type stuff?
<slomo> sistpoty: didn't you fix rscheme?
<sistpoty> slomo: nope... it built in pbuilder but faild on buildd
<slomo> ok
<\sh> Unfrgiven: I can't deal this...elmo will accept them...but it's not high prio as mdz said.
<sistpoty> slomo: i talked to dd and he said upstream is preparing a fix (which isn't there yet)
<LaserJock> hmm, what I said didn't make much sense. I think it is time for me to go home.
<LaserJock> gnight all
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ok fair enough. i guess it would just be a shame if they didnt make breezy. i dont mind if he does them last, just as long as they make breezy :)
<sistpoty> gn8 LaserJock
<Unfrgiven> LaserJock: good night
<\sh> 2005-10-13 00:30 UTC -> /me stopped working
<sistpoty> hehe
<Nafallo> \sh: you better. we have lots of stuff to do in dapper, right? :-)
<slomo> \sh: /me too after this package...
* sistpoty is out for a smoke to wait for the next boson-error *g*
<\sh> Nafallo: a bit :)
<Nafallo> slomo has aswell :-)
<Nafallo> slomo: you're going to give me a working banshee and stuff, right? :-)
<Nafallo> with an audioscrobbler-plugin :-)
<slomo> Nafallo: we'll see... maybe abock dies before ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: baah. so then you have to become upstream? :-)
<\sh> MOTUs: some last words: Thx for letting me participate on this great, wonderful project and team. I never had so much fun then working with you :)
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, long may it last
<\sh> MOTUs: So I'm glad to have the same fun for Dapper with you again :)
<ajmitch> it's been the first free software project to really grab my attention & time
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> \sh: ++
<bmonty> I'm having fun :)
<ogra> yeah !
<bmonty> ...and learning cool stuff
* ajmitch cannot put it down.. too much fun
<Nafallo> \sh: dapper will be even more fun probably :-). you get to do what you really want there :-)
<Nafallo> jabberd2 for main please ;-)
<ajmitch> yeah, the frankenstein XMPP/SIP client! ;)
<mbreit> \sh: you are so right... but: also thank YOU to do so much work for making ubuntu the best distribution ever :)
* ogra is very sad he had nearly no time for MOTU work this release :/
<ajmitch> ogra: it's ok, you had a lot of other stuff to do
<\sh> Nafallo: this is additional work and will give us more pressure
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, but all alone in my silent #edubuntu channel
<ajmitch> \sh: recruit more MOTUs
<ajmitch> ogra: :(
<mbreit> ogra: I can really understand you... I did not have much time the last weeks as well, so I am looking forward to working on dapper...
<ajmitch> ogra: I'll try & help out for dapper! honest!
<ogra> not half as funny as MOTU
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> I mean we did a lot
<ogra> ajmitch, i'll need every helping hand :)
<ajmitch> if we get more MOTUs to do the bugfixing & all, then we get more free time to develop new & cool stuff
<ajmitch> so RECRUIT!
<ogra> and imagine, edubuntu will be a full sized server OS in dapper :)
<ogra> ajmitch, after i slept some days
<ajmitch> :D
<\sh> ogra recruited really good people for MOTU...and the "former young ones" which were starting at least with hoary release are now "Old Farts" and starting to work on additional projects...so everyone is participating...but never forget your roots -> MOTU !
<mbreit> I would also like to say much, thank you and so on but I'll make it short:
<ogra> nicely i have a plumber coming in 6h :)
<mbreit> you guys really ROCK!!!
<ogra> nooo, *YOU* guys ROCK...
<ogra> wher would we be with all these hands helping to squash the nasty bugs :)
<ogra> *without
<ajmitch> remember everyone that we have a MOTU meeting *next week*
<ajmitch> so bring your ideas along for dapper
<ajmitch> so that we can get organised early
<ajmitch> and get some ideas to take to UBZ
<\sh> 100 packages in one day == one bottle of old scottish whiskey sponsored by sabdfl?
<ajmitch> \sh: haha
<ajmitch> I'd be lucky to get 10 packages in a day
<ajmitch> I only did 7 uploads last night
<\sh> well..for dapper: need to find someone who is sponsoring a quad xeon + quad amd64 build machine for my home
<ajmitch> \sh: for home? I'm really hoping that the build stuff for launchpad is working as specced
<dholbach> good night guys, i'm off to bed
<ajmitch> night dholbach !
<dholbach> night andrew
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<ajmitch> see you tomorrow :)
<\sh> dholbach: sleep tight...when u wake up, there's a badger waiting...a breezy one
<hubW> I have a new upstream package, psiconv that change the library version
<dholbach> night stefan and stephan :)
<mbreit> good night guys... i need some sleep as well now
<\sh> I'll prepare now the r200 for doing some wpa-psk wifi magic..and taking it to my bed
<ajmitch> mm
* ajmitch still has ssh access to his laptop which uses wpa-psk
<\sh> and if breezy is released while I'm sleeping .. ogra, please call me ,)
<ajmitch> time to dist-upgrade before the big rush :)
<ogra> \sh, i'll do if i didnt fall asleep over my keyboard
<sistpoty> gn8 mbreit
<ajmitch> hopefully the release doesn't happen when I'm afk too
<\sh> ogra: ehe...i mean: wir haben ja schon breezy ,->
<mbreit> night sistpoty ;)
<ogra> \sh, i'm still missing one test install before i can say that :)
<ogra> but its unlikely it fails :)
<sistpoty> hehe, i tried a test install which failed... on an 486 laptop with 8MB ram :-)
<ajmitch> oh great, doko got zope synced.. thanks doko! :)
<ogra> sistpoty, haha
<ogra> i think 64MB is minimum...
<Nafallo> 128 for desktop, no?
<ogra> 64MB for th installer to work
<sistpoty> maybe... it was funny to see the kernel killing a process (due to lack of mem) which always tried to respawn *g*
<\sh> brb
<ajmitch> wb \sh  ;)
<\sh> hehe....now on this small babz
<\sh> y
<slomo> ok, i give up ;) nothing fixable anymore...
<hubW> why vlc has been reverted to libwxgtk 2.4?
<hubW> it is back to gtk 1.2 with that :-(
<ajmitch> hubW: because otherwise it was *very* *broken*
<ajmitch> and reverting was the safest fix
<hubW> I didn't notice it was
<ajmitch> plenty of others did
<hubW> just wondering
<hubW> I was a bit annoyed that it install 2.4 again
<hubW> but you know better than I do :-)
<crimsun> dude
<crimsun> if I read one. more. "issue". regarding vlc, I'm going to...stand up and get some coffee.
<crimsun> hubW: just be glad playlist parsing works, k? :-)
<hubW> crimsun: not complaining
<hubW> crimsun: I must admit I didn't use playlist
<crimsun> wxwidgets2.6's unicode handling is horrid
<slomo_> ok, gn8 everybody :)
<ajmitch> night slomo_
<Nafallo> gnight slomo
<sistpoty> gn8 slomo_
* ajmitch watches DDs rage on about ubuntu (especially universe)
<bmonty> on irc?
<ajmitch> yes
<bmonty> chan?
<ajmitch> a debian channel :P
<ajmitch> and it's stopped now, it was a few minutes ago
<Riddell> ajmitch: what was their issue?
<bmonty> oh, I thought it would be on a freebsd channel
<ajmitch> general fixes, forking packages, using dpatch, etc
<bmonty> ajmitch: you are a DD, yes?
<ajmitch> not politely asking the great DDs to integrate any fixes
<ajmitch> bmonty: yes, how else could I become so bitter & cynical?
<sistpoty> hehe
<bmonty> ajmitch: I thought that was a property of people that lived in New Zealand :)
<crimsun> pfft, you can't be cynical without being a university professor first.
<ajmitch> heh
<crimsun> then you'll learn the true meaning of cynical firsthand.
<bmonty> I don't want to get started on my tirade about university professors
<bmonty> I would think the DDs would be interested in taking the changes from ubuntu and folding them back into their own packages
<ajmitch> oh some of them are
<ajmitch> but a lot of them don't like the quick & dirty fixes we do :)
<ajmitch> nor the invasive packaging changes like dpatch
<bmonty> I can understand the quick fixes part...but if they don't like dpatch, why not just apply the patch and be done with it?
<Unfrgiven> what dont they like about dpatch?
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: it doesn't always work, introduces other dependencies, etc
<crimsun> well they can always just remove the dpatch from debian/{rules,patches/} and remove dpatch as a b-d
<bmonty> crimsun: or just apply the patch to the source tree
<crimsun> I have to say that without dpatch, I'd be even more insane
<ajmitch> crimsun: sure, but that robs them of the chance to *rant*
<ajmitch> it's part of what makes debian debian
<crimsun> hehe
<bmonty> I love reading some of the comments on bugs that are marked wontfix :)
* ajmitch wonders what other quick fixes he can sneak into breezy
<Unfrgiven> patching the sources directly doesnt seem like a good long term solution... the more patches you add, the more work will be required to upgrade to a new upstream version
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: of course
<Unfrgiven> they prefer this?!?!
<ajmitch> some do
<ajmitch> I disabled simple-patchsys for some of my packages in favour of having the patches inline
<crimsun> omg, already asking for backports for breezy
<ajmitch> because I'm using bzr on my box to manage it
* crimsun stabs
<ajmitch> crimsun: yes, what did you expect?
* ajmitch wants backports noooow!
<jeff_> Could the latest sabayon please be packaged before breezy? It is in universe
<jeff_> The latest version released by markmc fixed the bug that makes it just about unusable out of the box on breezy
<ajmitch> breezy is meant to be out really really soon
<bddebian> Heya folks
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> so you'd be pushing to get it in
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<ajmitch> hello bddebian, hail & welcome
<sistpoty> wb bddebian
<ajmitch> !
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch / sistpoty
<jeff_> ajmitch: The version in breezy doesn't work correctly. The version released yesterday does
<jeff_> ajmitch: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1125
<bddebian> So are we completely out of time now?
<ajmitch> jeff_: that's wonderful, but we've probably only got minutes to get things packaged, built, tested, uploaded, built & in the archive
<crimsun> bddebian: not quite yet
<ajmitch> if someone here wants to try, go ahead :)
<Amaranth> bddebian: I'd say yes, seeing how the release is in 8 (?) hours, but you might get a little something in.
<jeff_> ajmitch: If you walk me through how to do it, I will...
<bmonty> ajmitch: only if you will upload it
<jeff_> ajmitch: I am on breezy atm
<crimsun> Amaranth: that's just a random time.
<sistpoty> ajmitch: do we? then i should better start to bang my head to the table as slomo suggested (instead of trying to fix boson)
<Amaranth> crimsun: ?
<bddebian> sistpoty: :-)
<crimsun> Amaranth: what time are you referring to?
<Amaranth> crimsun: I thought it was midnight UTC
<\sh> bddebian: the buildds are not closed...u could be the one with the last package in universe for breezy
<jeff_> I've made a ton of rpm .spec files and rpms. I've nevery built a deb yet
<crimsun> Amaranth: long past midnight UTC
<Amaranth> crimsun: it's 4pm right now, right?
<bddebian> \sh: :-)
<ajmitch> jeff_: getting someone's first package into the release hours before it is released is not-so-optimal :)
<crimsun> Amaranth: 2:07 AM
<\sh> jeff_: well... .specs are not complicated
<Kyral> So anything in REVU after midnight goes to Dapper Universe?
<ajmitch> bmonty: go for it if you want, but I can't guarantee an upload
<Amaranth> crimsun: err, i was going backwards :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: no dice then :)
<ajmitch> Kyral: dapper will be open next week
<ajmitch> bmonty: I'm at work
<Kyral> I know that....
<Amaranth> ajmitch: I thought it wouldn't open for two weeks, like last time.
<Amaranth> ajmitch: Taking a break and all that...
<bmonty> ajmitch: I know, I was kidding
<jeff_> I am willing to do it... before I go to bed if it means I will have a working sabayon on a default breezy box
<ajmitch> Amaranth: breezy was open about 4 days after release
<crimsun> jeff_: is it in Debian yet?
<Kyral> Then could someone look over my package? I believe all the packaging errors are gone
<jeff_> crimsun: It was released 2 days ago
<Amaranth> ajmitch: really? i guess i just stopped paying attention then noticed one day
<Amaranth> btw, if i keep the pace i worked at today smeg 0.8 will be one of the first things to get into dapper (other than MoM) :)
* \sh shutdowned 2h ago.
<sistpoty> jeff_: does it fix a bug or is the current version completeley b0rked?
<jeff_> sistpoty: It fixes many bugs && it fixes a pretty serious one
<ajmitch> sistpoty: the other option is http://mail.gnome.org/archives/sabayon-list/2005-September/msg00000.html
<ajmitch> which appears to be the fix for the main bug
<jeff_> ajmitch: That is the problem
<jeff_> the main problem, but the new version cleans up quite a few bugs
<crimsun> show-stoppers only imo.
<ajmitch> jeff_: you're asking for ultra-last-minute fixes here :)
<crimsun> take the patch, twirl it, throw me the debdiff/diff.gz
<ajmitch> since a new upstream version might break in other ways
<jeff_> ajmitch: I love ubuntu, but I dont love broken packages
<jeff_> I am trying to help out however I can
<crimsun> jeff_: people who want the new one will be using the new one regardless
<crimsun> if it won't even start, that's a show-stopper
<ajmitch> if it's critical enough it *might* even get into breezy-updates if it's not in by release time
<crimsun> oh wait, it's a main package
<jeff_> crimsun: Let me find my bug...
<jeff_> I posted this with the screenshots: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16971
<ajmitch> crimsun: it is?
<ajmitch> crimsun: oh you're very right
<sistpoty> wow, hail to my university and it's mail server... i got an mail from 5 hours ago right now :)
<ajmitch> jeff_: we cannot upload *anything* to main
<jeff_> Thats fine, if it missed the release, it missed the release
<jeff_> Could that go in updates?
<bddebian> sistpoty: Nice :-)
<ajmitch> jeff_: if it does, it's not up to us
<crimsun> -updates is possible. Dapper is certainly targeted.
<ajmitch> and a new upstream is unlikely for updates
<ajmitch> so most likely to just grab patches
<jeff_> ajmitch: Who would I talk to for a patched version to get uploaded? it is broken
<ajmitch> bugzilla
<jeff_> ajmitch: Look at the bugzilla url I posted :-) I posted all of those comments virtually
<ajmitch> looks to be 16971
<ajmitch> right
<crimsun> jeff_: it wasn't deemed release critical
<ajmitch> so it might get handled, but not by us
<jeff_> ajmitch: at first, it would load up, and then die without warning
<jeff_> crimsun: That is fine, I am just asking if that could be put into updates?
<jeff_> And who needs to be contacted for it to be in updates?
<crimsun> the person you needed to contact just went to sleep
<ajmitch> jeff_: you've already filed a bug, so if it's deemed worthy it'll get worked on
<\sh> ajmitch: backport?
<ajmitch> trying to constantly push it further could be counterproductive :)
<ajmitch> \sh: maybe
<jeff_> \sh, crimsun, ajmitch: thanks for the help guys
<\sh> ajmitch: i'm not sure how to handle updates for universe
<jeff_> And so you know, I was the hero at work for showing the guys how to get 3ddesk working on ubuntu
<ajmitch> \sh: MOTU meeting next week ;)
<jeff_> That alone made 4 guys dump opensuse
<crimsun> jeff_: breezy-updates.
<crimsun> perhaps along with the libgphoto fix, but that's up to the core group.
<\sh> jeff_: well...ubuntu dumoed today 6 suse servers
<\sh> aeh dumped and it was yesterday
<bddebian> ajmitch: MOTU meeting?  Aren't we all done now? ;-P
<crimsun> bddebian: NEVER
<ajmitch> bddebian: HAH!
<\sh> bddebian: now the fun starts
<ajmitch> bddebian: the meeting was scheduled weeks ago,
* crimsun punts all desktop bugs to bddebian!
<ajmitch> to give everyone a chance to have their say for MOTU before UBZ
<ajmitch> so I expect *EVERYONE* to turn up! ;)
<\sh> _*EVERYONE*_
<bddebian> crimsun: Why, I can't fix anything :-)
<crimsun> bah
<ajmitch> bddebian: oh shut up :P
<ajmitch> and I mean that in the nicest possible way
<ajmitch> really
<ajmitch> :D
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Well I didn't make my 1000 karma but I did hit 100 bugs I think
<ajmitch> no doubt malone will be flooded with bugs after release
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, well done :)
<bddebian> And I didn't get UnmetDeps wiped :-(
* ajmitch didn't quite make 100 bugs :'(
<bddebian> And the bug count is over 500
<jeff_> Which ML would I post the sabayon bug on to keep from getting flamed about being on the wrong one? for breezy-updates
* bddebian is a miserable failure in his goals :'-(
<ajmitch> because I'm a lazy slacker
<ajmitch> bddebian: I only got 94 done
<ajmitch> but karma is > 1100
<LaserJock> sorry for the dumb question but what happens now (after the release) to the Malone bugs?
<\sh> jeff_: ubuntu-backports ,-) but please after tuesday next week :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Only?? :-)
<\sh> LaserJock: we fix them
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they sit there, we might get some of the more important ones into breezy-updates if we're allowed
<mxpxpod> is anyone else having problems with the latest deskbar-applet?
<jeff_> \sh: I'll wait till next friday
<mxpxpod> I'm not getting an entry on the panel
<\sh> LaserJock: or they're magically fixed by new syncs, merges, patches
<ajmitch> anything that's dapper-worthy, we fix in dapper
<ajmitch> dapper will rock!
* ajmitch is counting on bddebian to make it so
<jeff_> breezy already rocks!
<LaserJock> so some will be seen in Breezy updates and the rest will be seen in Dapper?
<ajmitch> jeff_: breezy is only the warm up
<\sh> breezy is not out yet
<ajmitch> LaserJock: if it's fixed in updates it'll be in dapper as well
* jeff_ has been using breezy for 3 weeks now
<bddebian> ajmitch: D00d, then you have issues :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: why?
<ajmitch> bddebian: dude, you're our hero! ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: If you are counting on me for anything
* ajmitch needs a bddebian fanboy tshirt for UBZ
<whiprush> mxpxpod: it's been like that for me since it came out, never got it to work.
<mxpxpod> whiprush: it was working for me until just a minute ago when I got an update
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we'll get security fixes into updates where possible
<ajmitch> whiprush: yo, how's the fridge looking for release? stocked full of goodies?
<bddebian> Didn't I sync sabayon from debian recently?
<whiprush> ajmitch: not as many as I hoped
<LaserJock> so is it OK if I came to the MOTU meeting?
<whiprush> but I'll be working on it.
<ajmitch> bddebian: I hope not
<\sh> LaserJock: the meetings are open for everyone
<ajmitch> bddebian: since the only message on breezy changes are from seb128
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's expected
<LaserJock> ok cool I had some comments on .desktop files
<ajmitch> LaserJock: be there or we'll assign more bugs to bddebian
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hmm, maybe I'm thinking of something else then :-)
<LaserJock> hmmm, wouldn't want to do that ;-)
* ajmitch fell *way* short of his upload target for breezy :'(
<ajmitch> I'll have to really get to work on dapper
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> incessant cries of "when's breezy out?" in #ubuntu
<ajmitch> I knew I shouldn't have returned there
<LaserJock> yeah, it is kinda weird, this is my first time being involved in any way with an OS release
<LaserJock> I worked hard today and now it is like pheww
* ajmitch was involved a little with hoary
<\sh> it's now my first time for ubuntu, 2 times for redhat (as webrel manager)
<bddebian> Sheesh, I'm getting the same damn spam message on every mailing list I'm on.. :-(
* ajmitch will start the merge processing next week, I think
<bddebian> ajmitch: Ugh :-)
<ajmitch> there'll be a huge list to do, so I should be able to do maybe 50/week ;)
<ajmitch> bddebian: better to get things done early than to let them diverge
<ajmitch> we'll have to do continual merges, if we choose to do so
<bddebian> ajmitch: But if done too early won't it have to be redone ?
<ajmitch> we can't wait until UVF
<ajmitch> since we're going to be far stricter about UVF for dapper
<ajmitch> things may have to be redone
<\sh> who was saying it today...."the pain of a time based release"
<ajmitch> but I think most will be fine
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's all part of the MOTU fun! ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: is debian thru the cxx-transition yet?
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> no
<sistpoty> damn :)
<ajmitch> this is debian :P
<Amaranth> they'd better finish before MoM starts up again
<ajmitch> they won't
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hey, maybe you'll get your main upload rights before Dapper releases ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: of course I will
<Amaranth> or that's going to be a bitch and could explain the 6.04(ish) release date ;)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'll probably need them in the first few weeks
<bddebian> Maybe I'll have to shoot for them.. ;-P
* ajmitch fears
<bddebian> As well you should :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> it'll be bad enough me breaking main every week
* ajmitch hopes breezy is out before 7pm NZDT
<sistpoty> heh, even now \sh is recruiting in #ubuntu-de :)
<ajmitch> since I won't be able to celebrate for a couple of hours then
<ajmitch> and I need to celebrate with a beer once it's released ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Are you saying that I would break stuff?? :-)
<\sh> sistpoty: hehe
<ajmitch> bddebian: only half the time :)
<bddebian> heh
* ajmitch only got a few fixes in main for breezy
* ajmitch is looking forward to dapper+1 ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Let's get through Dapper first eh? :-)
<ajmitch> oh dapper will be no problem,
<\sh> well..
<\sh> last cigarette before I'll close my eyes for a few minutes
<ajmitch> ok :)
<bddebian> \sh: Good idea :-)
* bddebian shares a celebratory cigarette with \sh 
<\sh> yeah..
* ogra joins in
<bddebian> w00t
<\sh> and i hope i can smoke a good havannah cigar with barry during ubz
* ajmitch doubts bddebian will be at ubz
<jsgotangco> is 12.2 our last image?
<ajmitch> not without a divorce ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: he should bring his wife and kids with him :)
* ajmitch is a non-smoker, will have to be beer instead
<jsgotangco> smokers rule
<jeff_> ajmitch: are you in NZ?
<ajmitch> yes, I am
<jeff_> ajmitch: I have a good friend in the naki aka taranaki
<\sh> ajmitch: a cigar is not smoking like a cigarette
<ajmitch> ok
<jeff_> ajmitch: I am going to fly up there in about 6 months
<seth_k|lappy> man, the 13th is just release day! America's Army 2.5 comes tomorrow too
<ajmitch> \sh: I've never tried one :)
* seth_k|lappy is glad he's up-to-date on Ubuntu so he can use his connection to download AAO
<ajmitch> jeff_: 'up there' ?
<\sh> ajmitch: u should...with a good whiskey
<ajmitch> :)
<jeff_> ajmitch: well over there
<ajmitch> \sh: well we might have a chance at UBZ ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: yeah
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye, I won't be there :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: a real shame
<bddebian> Yes it is :-(
<bddebian> Of course you'd probably just ridicule me anyway ;-)
<ajmitch> of course not
<whiprush> bddebian: dude you're teh future of motu.
<whiprush> we need more bddebians
<bddebian> whiprush: You are on crack too :-)
* ajmitch needs a good kicking to fix more packages for dapper
<ajmitch> I can't have some upstart MOTU like bddebian beating me ;)
<\sh> hehe...ok...closing my eyes ... shutdown -eyes now
* ajmitch gets ready to ctcp \sh  ;)
<bddebian> Heh, gnight \sh.  Congrats :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh, watch your back for Dapper.. ;-P
<sistpoty> weehee... i think i finally fixed xprint :)
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/debdiffs/xprint_0.1.0.alpha1-11_to_alpha1-11ubuntu1.debdiff
<ajmitch> bddebian: oh sure
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'll probably have to retire as a MOTU
<Kyral> maybe I will become a MOTU before Dapper + 1
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh
<bddebian> sistpoty: Awesome
<bddebian> Kyral: Nah, you'll be in for Dapper I'm sure if you keep up the good work :-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: the init.d doesn't give strange messages any longer, but i dunno if it really works as expected (i dunno what this xprint does in the first place ;)
<bddebian> :-)
<Kyral> bddebian, hehe, thanks..
<sistpoty> maybe s.o. would like to test and eventually upload *beg*? ;)
<Kyral> I smell Futurama......and Family Guy...
<Kyral> Okay TV Time :D
<bddebian> sistpoty: I'd love to but I'm not sure I'd know how to test it either?? :-(
<sistpoty> hm... anyone out there to know what xprint does? *g*
<ogra> printing ?
<bddebian> hehe
<sistpoty> hehe, but how do can i use this?
<ogra> small Xes probably
<sistpoty> hm... i can read the words, but don't get their meaning *g*
<ogra> no idea, its a add on for firefox afaik... but not needed anymore
<ogra> you probably have wo if ff doesnt crash if you print while its installed
<ogra> *won
<sistpoty> k, I'll test this
<Riddell> \sh gone to sleep?
<ajmitch> yep
<sistpoty> ok, firefox and mozilla didn't crash when printing with xprint, but i doubt it did even notice xprint...
<sistpoty> i wasn't able to start xman (listed on things that work with xprint)
<sistpoty> and xmore segfaultet :(
<sistpoty> so I still have no clue bout xprint
<sistpoty> well if s.o. who knows wants to test xprint, he could decide whether it should be uploaded. if not, breezy will have a version that ftbfs but is installable, so no real problem here anyways :)
* sistpoty is falling asleep right now... maybe /me will make it into bed before *g*
<sistpoty> gn8 folks
<bddebian> Gnight sistpoty
<Kyral> Happy Breezy Release everyone...
<Kyral> zzzzz
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: there you go, it made it before 7 :)
<crimsun> congrats all, thanks for all the fish.
<tseng> is universe closed for business?
<ajmitch> yes
<tseng> ok
<tseng> fair enough
<ajmitch> at least I believe so
<ajmitch> since the release has been declared official
<tseng> yeah, what do you know
<bddebian> heh
<jbailey> I know that I wish there was someone in town to go drinking with. ;)
<tritium> hi nalioth
<lifeless> bradb ?
<bddebian> nalioth!!!
<nalioth> howdy. can anyone tell me why there are multiple isos for powerpc breezy install on the torrent.ubuntu.com:6969   ?
<tseng> sounds like an #ubuntu ?
* ajmitch needs to get a speights to celebrate :)
<tseng> get wha?
<ajmitch> beer
<lifeless> beer
<tseng> beer is bad
<ajmitch> lifeless will know what it is :)
<tseng> umk
<lifeless> ajmitch: they serve it on tap at paddy macguires here ;).
<ajmitch> lifeless: great :)
<bddebian> OK gang, beddy bye time for me.  Great work and Congrats!!! :-)
<ajmitch> bye bddebian
<tseng> bye bddebian
<ajmitch> thanks for all your hard work on universe :)
<bddebian> No, THANK YOU :-)
<jsgotangco> night
<alexr> Hi there. Anybody can help me with correcting gramps package?
<crimsun> what's wrong with it?
<alexr> It has been adopted from Debian.
<alexr> Debian uses /usr/lib/python2.3 in the postinst to byte-compile all modules.
<alexr> I am not sure about installed breezy, but on the live CD this step in postinst is just skipped.
<alexr> Not the end of the world, but byte-compiled files provide for a faster startup and this is commonly done in the postinst for most python apps.
<ajmitch> sigh, that was one synced *right* before release
<crimsun> gramps |    2.0.8-1 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages
<crimsun> same as Sid.
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> synced yesterday/today
<alexr> Yes, but sid uses python2.3 and you guys use 2.4
<ajmitch> which is a problem, and it should have been modified before upload
<alexr> Yep.
<alexr> Is it going to be on any of the CD images?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> it's in universe
<alexr> So then it can be corrected with another upload, sometime later, right?
<Lathiat> so whats release status atm?
* Lathiat just got out of bed ;p
<ajmitch> Lathiat: ISOs rsyncing to mirrors
<ajmitch> alexr: unlikely, unless it's critical
<ajmitch> alexr: unlikely for breezy that is
<crimsun> alexr: you'll see it adjusted in Dapper.
<alexr> No, it's not critical.
<alexr> :-)
* ajmitch feels lonely, not being able to upload anymore
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heh
<alexr> I'm actually one of the upstream devels.
<Lathiat> i see the avahi sync didnt make it :(
<Lathiat> oh well
<ajmitch> Lathiat: sad to say
<Lathiat> its nothing major
<alexr> Whoever packages it, maybe we should get this person on our mailing list?
<ajmitch> which is why I suggested manual tweaks which kamion didn't like :)
<ajmitch> alexr: debian  maintainer, not us :)
<Lathiat> but postinst breaks if dbus-1-utils isnt installed :\
<crimsun> alexr: you're welcome to, of course
<ajmitch> since we have about 30 guys managing ~15000 packages ;)
<alexr> ajmitch: Debian maintainer is on the list and we communicate pretty well.
<alexr> His package works on his distro.
<alexr> ajmitch: I hear you, no problem.
<ajmitch> alexr: there's no 1 person in ubuntu who cares for the package
<alexr> I see.
<ajmitch> Lathiat: bad, but not critical
<alexr> dallingham: seems we're too late, they already synced it for the release.
<alexr> Oh well...
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh, breaks kubuntu users installing it :(
<ajmitch> Lathiat: which is why we wanted 0.5.2 in asap, to get that valuable testing ;)
<Lathiat> edubuntu, xubuntu and uuntu -desktop all dep on dbus-1-utils so i never noticed
* ajmitch watches all the people in #ubuntu starting their downloads
<ajmitch> not like I have much to get now :)
<alexr> gentlemen, do you know of any torrents to grab is ISOs?
<ajmitch> alexr: #ubuntu
<alexr> OK, thanks a lot!
* ajmitch does his final dist-upgrade
<Lathiat> yay :) Good work MOTU team.
* ajmitch waits patiently for dapper to open
<ivoks> \sh: ending with syle :)
<ivoks> style
<dholbach> morning
<ivoks> morning
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | We did it - we released Breezy! :)
<dholbach> so a happy release day to everyone! :)
(ivoks/#ubuntu-motu) dholbach: you too :)
(ivoks/#ubuntu-motu) dholbach: but it's 5.10, not breezy :)
<dholbach> ?
<dholbach> you want to kid me :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> 5.10 is official name
<ivoks> breezy is codename
<dholbach> both are official :)
<ivoks> ok :)
<dholbach> <- dogwalk
<ivoks> The official name of any Ubuntu release is "Ubuntu X.YY" where X represents the year, less 2000, and YY represents the month of the release in that year
<ivoks> (wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth)
<ivoks> :p
<ivoks> :}
<dholbach> blblblblbl
<siretart> happy release day everyone! yay breezy!
<dholbach> YAY!
<dholbach> how are you siretart ?
<crimsun> welp, here comes b-updates
<Tonio-> morning all
<dholbach> morning Tonio-
<dholbach> happy release day :)
<Tonio-> yep ;)
<Tonio-> same for you ;)
<dholbach> thanks
<Tonio-> I'm really fine to see that elmo has finally let yakuake come in universe ;)
<Tonio-> I would have been sad to know jubuntu without this tool :)
<dholbach> we all did things a little late :)
<Tonio-> hehe
<Tonio-> what wil happen to motu in the next month ?
<Tonio-> is it still possible to package or will we have to wait a bit ?
<dholbach> we will have to wait a tiny but until dapper is open
<dholbach> it is possible to package and review, but not to upload at the moment
<dholbach> apart from that, doing bug triage is a good thing to do atm
<dholbach> and when dapper is open i URGE each and everyone to get involved in merging debian changes
<markuman> i want to add desktopfile for xfce4-taskmanager. " Categories=XFCE;Application;System; " is that ok?
<crimsun> markuman: sure. You'll have to queue them on REVU or somewhere.
<markuman> crimsun: ive never done it before. so i have to update the package new to revu?
<crimsun> is it on REVU now?
<crimsun> if so, yes, update it
<markuman> no, it was ready in revu and is now in universe
<crimsun> oh, then just apt-get source, apply your changes, and queue them locally
<crimsun> we can't upload until Dapper "opens for business"
<markuman> hm ok
<crimsun> hmm, we'd better kick this universe/multiverse-security thing into high gear
<dholbach> yeah
<Tonio-> dholbach: waiting for dapper I may give a look at rosetta
<Tonio-> certainly a lot of things to do there
<dholbach> malone too :-p
<Tonio-> malone ? means ?
<Lathiat> Tonio-: http://launchpad.net/malone/
<xhaker> dayly 12.2 install i386 = final install ?
<xhaker> final install i386?
<Tonio-> never heard about it, I give a shot, thanks Lathiat
<dholbach> xhaker:  you already said that the md5sum matched
<dholbach> but yes, that's the one, 20051012.2 install + 20051012.3 live
<xhaker> i know.. just thought, what if they rebuilded and it matched again
<xhaker> lol
<xhaker> :P
<xhaker> thanks
<xhaker> well
<xhaker> later.. uni now
<\sh> HAPPY HAPPY BADGER DAY BADGER DAY BADGER DAY *singingtothesoundofhelloween*
<crimsun> d'oh
<crimsun> I should have been belting out Two Minutes To Midnight
<\sh> and nobody woke me up
<Gervystar> nice job, dudes :)
<\sh> Now
* \sh feels really good...no stress feeling anymore
<dholbach> what is the launchpad team for zope guys?
<dholbach> there is pkg-zope, zope-admin and zope-dev
<dholbach> none of them seems likey to be the one that i'm looking for
<siretart> dholbach: mmh. very nervous :(
<ajmitch> dholbach: who are you looking for?
<ajmitch> ie, what zope guys? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: good morning :)
<slomo_> good morning :)
<ajmitch> hi :)
<ajmitch> what's up?
<dholbach> morning sebastian, andrew! :)
<dholbach> happy badger-day
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> so shall we get started on dapper?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> bug triage!
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> package review
<ajmitch> MOTU meeting in 1 week
<ajmitch> add your items to the agenda
<dholbach> enough to do
<ajmitch> *plenty* of package reviewing to do
<ajmitch> and we can start on merges
<slomo_> hi daniel :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I think we can't leave merges too late - they need to be finished up at the same time as UBZ
<ajmitch> bah
* ajmitch hasn't slept enough
<ajmitch> s/UBZ/UVF/
<ajmitch> getting merges done by UBZ would be a good challenge ;)
<slomo> yes... but is MoM already working?
<\sh> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/ <--- install flash and sing the badger song :)
<ajmitch> slomo: probably not, and th archive isn't open
* ajmitch is going to write his own MoM ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: but we could collect millions of uploads and upload them when it's open ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: sure
<ajmitch> slomo: I'll probably do a few
<dholbach> ajmitch: but dapper is not open yet
<ajmitch> but it's meant to be open on tuesday
<dholbach> ajmitch: so no merges now
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'm aware of that :D
<ajmitch> doesn't mean that I can't start looking
<ajmitch> since I have a list of packages with *ubuntu* versions
<ajmitch> a list of source packages in debian
<ajmitch> and I can generate diffs
<\sh> syncs are going first :)
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> but anything with *ubuntu* version has to be handled manually by us
<\sh> yepp
<ajmitch> which is why I want to start on merges :)
<ajmitch> I'll put lists up on tiber if you want
<ajmitch> though MoM will do a fair bit for us
* ajmitch has learnt all sorts of fun things with filterdiff, interdiff, etc
<\sh> ajmitch: your choice...I need some rest first..
<dholbach> i already sent one CD out via torrent again :)
<ajmitch> \sh: ok
<ajmitch> \sh: I need sleep tonight too
<dholbach> \sh: me too, i'll take a nap... headache-wise
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe
<ajmitch> and I'll be offline/on dialup this weekend
<ajmitch> visiting parents :)
<\sh> i'll visit ogra and suse this weekend...so i'll be around..somehow but not actively
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> say hi from all of us :)
<\sh> hehe..will do :)
* ajmitch gets hackering on his scripts again :)
* slomo prepares a "for-debian" package directory for ajmitch ;)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> ~2500 packages to merge in total
<\sh> planet.debian.org
<ajmitch> we are going to be *BUSY*
<\sh> joey about ubuntu patches
<ajmitch> \sh: I know, he was ranting before on irc
<ajmitch> complaining about the patches that ubuntu people had done on his packages
<ajmitch> slomo: you got famous, joeyh mentioned an rbscrobbler fix of yours ;)
<\sh> hehehe
<slomo> haha
<slomo> wonderfull
<slomo> does he hate me for it? ;)
<ajmitch> of course
<\sh> i should give him some nice examples of debian maintainer work :) building debian/* dynamically from upstream source
<\sh> or upstream auto* magic which relies on debian/changelog
<ajmitch> it's a good example of why we need to have decent quality standards for fixes we make
<ajmitch> and how dpatch is not always best :)
* ajmitch has uploaded a few packages with inline changes rather than dpatch
<slomo> so what's the real problem with dpatch?
<\sh> ajmitch: i came to terms, that inline changes are better then dpatch
<ajmitch> read that irc log
<slomo> ok
<\sh> ajmitch: but most of the time i try to fight with plain diff -ur
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, I started doing inline changes for some of my packages & having the patches as bzr branches
<ajmitch> which HCT is meant to solve
<ajmitch> since that's exactly what it does
<ajmitch> I should switch to debian/ as a nested bzr tree though
<ajmitch> instead of a separate branch to merge in
<\sh> ajmitch: actually i need some training on bzr and hct and how it works..
<\sh> ajmitch: think until tuesday is a good timeframe to read some new docs
<ajmitch> man I need to blog my fridge photo
<ajmitch> \sh: hct is not public yet
<ajmitch> and bzr is easy to learn
<ajmitch> bzr init
<ajmitch> bzr add
<ajmitch> make change
<ajmitch> bzr commit
<ajmitch> bzr branch ...
<ajmitch> bzr merge ...
<ajmitch> ;)
<ajmitch> very nice & simple
<slomo> hm, why does joey explictly mention that the rbscrobbler patch is for "another potentially security sensative application"? anyway, the problem he has with it will solve when we stop using bugzilla and switch everything to malone ;)
<BockBilbo> hey
<BockBilbo> i was just reading  a post of a MOTU member and discovered what you guys du
<BockBilbo> *do
<BockBilbo> :) I wanted to thank you all for your work :)
<ajmitch> hi BockBilbo
<BockBilbo> hi ajmitch
<slomo> ajmitch: so what do you suggest? further using of dpatch when the package has no dpatch (or other) support yet or putting everything directly in the diff?
<ajmitch> slomo: depends on the package & the patch you need to apply
<ajmitch> if the package was using cdbs, then dpatch wouldn't be hard to tack on
<ajmitch> if a patch is < 10 lines, then is dpatch worth it?
<marcin_ant> hi masters
<marcin_ant> I need some advice
<marcin_ant> I wanto to create a package for some emacs stuff
<ajmitch> dholbach: man, why do we just get zope bugs assigned on malone after release? :)
<marcin_ant> and this module has directory /icons with some custom icons required by this app
<marcin_ant> my question is - where should I install these icons?
<marcin_ant> to /usr/share/pixmaps ?
<ajmitch> sigh, fixes for me to upload to dapper already :)
<BockBilbo> bye
<BockBilbo> ;)
<ajmitch> bye
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> some people just don't stick around :)
<tseng> heh
<tseng> morning ajmitch et al
<slomo> hi tseng :)
<tseng> i guess this is an ok release for mono
<tseng> i missed a few bugs
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<\sh> tseng: happy badger day :)
<tseng> thanks
<HiddenWolf> Guys, does xubuntu-desktop depend on xorg?
<HiddenWolf> apt-cache show only pionts out xorg-driver-synaptics, which is odd
<ajmitch> HiddenWolf: x-window-system-core
<HiddenWolf> ajmitch, ah, I was looking for xserver-xorg
<HiddenWolf> thanks
<ajmitch> :)
<slomo> ajmitch: what would you prefer? i have one upstream tarball without autotools generated... a) changed upstream tarball with the stuff, b) autotools run in rules or c) a big big patch for the autotools stuff?
<ajmitch> I generally don't like autotools run in rules, but it might be ok in some situations..
<ajmitch> in this case it's probably ok
<ajmitch> you may want to build-depend on known-good auto* versions
<slomo> hehe i don't like it either... but i don't like the other solutions too...
* ajmitch doesn't know what debian suggests there
<slomo> yes sure... i had a talk with infinity about autotools a while ago ;)
<dooglus> is there a source of 'legit' md5sums for crucial binaries available?
<dooglus> preferably signed by the ubuntu key
<dholbach> see you
<ajmitch> bye
<\sh> should i get up and get some food or should i sleep some hours more
<ajmitch> sleep
<ajmitch> you deserve it
<\sh> ajmitch: i'm too lazy to get up and shower .. so i'll sleep at least 2 hours more
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> I wish I could do that!
* \sh needs a new background .. world time clock
<slomo> Mithrandir: thanks for clarifying the malone issue for joey ;)
<slomo> Unfrgiven: seems like we didn't get the docs in for breezy :( shall i upload them again for dapper when it's open? or do you want to make some modifications first?
<Mithrandir> slomo: uhm, fixed the markup now so it's a bit less yelling. :-)
<ajmitch> slomo: yeah, they didn't quite get through NEW
<slomo> ajmitch: really sad imho... that would be something we could give people who want to get into packaging...
<ajmitch> we can still put the PDF online
<ajmitch> it's not an obstacle
<ajmitch> since they'd need to be online to grab it from universe ;)
<\sh> push it onto the fridge
<tseng> can the oem install do server?
<tseng> or just desktop
* tseng empties breezy-changes dir on imap
<HiddenWolf_> Guys, I just install xubuntu-desktop, but it doesn't start x automatically.
<HiddenWolf_> :(
<ajmitch> probably because you need a login manager like gdm
<HiddenWolf_> ajmitch, true, that. gdm isn't installed
<xerxas> Hi everyone
<xerxas> and thanks for your great work for breezy to everyone
<xerxas> kudos to everyone !
<ajmitch> yes, thanks to all the motus who did such hard work :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: stop  being THAT modest! :)
<tseng> hugs all around
<xerxas> :)
<xerxas> and kisses
<tseng> no
<dholbach> hey tseng :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: hmm?
<dholbach> ajmitch: your comment seemed to indicate that only the other guys had been busy on breezy, you've been too
<ajmitch> dholbach: no, just saying thanks to everyone who did work, I just played a small part in a rocking team :)
<Kyral> Morning! Happy Release Day
<ajmitch> morning
<Kyral> So basically the MOTUs get a week off now?
<ajmitch> nah
<CaiN_SA> lol
<CaiN_SA> it doesnt work that way
<Kyral> Bleh you should
<Kyral> Yousa be heroes!
<ajmitch> we can't upload but we can keep fixing in anticipation of uploading
<Kyral> lol
<CaiN_SA> serious ajmitch ?
<Kyral> Is it possible to have two PBuilders?
* ajmitch will probably grab a bunch of source packages this weekend & sit down to fix them
<ajmitch> Kyral: of course
<Kyral> How would that fly...
<ajmitch> different pbuilder configurations?
<Kyral> like how would I tell PBuilder to use the Dapper one instead of the Breezy one
* ajmitch has ~/debian/pbuilder/configs/breezy.pbuilderrc
<tseng> heh
<ajmitch> so I have wrapper scripts to run pbuilder build
<ajmitch> with the right config
<ajmitch> since I need sid pbuilder as well
* Nafallo just have diffrent breezy.tgz atm :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: sure, I have to have separate bases as well :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: why split the conf? it's not as you really use that for anything, right? :-)
<Kyral> I'd just have different configs
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yes, I do
<thesaltydog> ajmitch, I need those scripts too...
<Kyral> and then use Bash Aliases to tell them where to go ;P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: separate hooks, for example
<Nafallo> hmm. I just use the conf to tell pbuilder what to use without --basetgz on the cmdline :-P
<slomo> ajmitch: and i'll have a experimental pbuilder config later ;) i finally need to test the stuff with the debian dbus and hal ;)
<Kyral> i dnno
<Nafallo> ah. I won't have stuff like that :-)
<Kyral> but I need food
<ajmitch> Nafallo: and separate apt cache for when there are same versions in sid & breezy (or dapper)
<Kyral> cya
<ajmitch> thesaltydog: hm? it's a 1 line script :)
<Nafallo> I need hooks!
<ajmitch> thesaltydog: sudo pbuilder build $PBOPT --configfile ~/debian/pbuilder/configs/breezy.pbuilderrc $@
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> "Libofx2 install problem"
<dholbach> the neverending story :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: oh man
<ajmitch> dholbach: don't tell me :(
<dholbach> #3104 malone
* ajmitch stabs
<ogra> brrezy-updates candidate ?
<ajmitch> I tested an upgrade of it, it went fine!
<ajmitch> ogra: can be worked around, but might be a candidate
<ajmitch> aha!
<ajmitch> that bugs is FIXED
<ajmitch> ubuntu8 is in the archive, from what I can see
<ajmitch> which is what I uploaded
<ajmitch> so I don't know how they're getting that version
<ajmitch> breezy (libs): library to support Open Financial Exchange [universe] 
<ajmitch> 1:0.8.0-3ubuntu8: amd64 i386 powerpc
* ivoks has to report one nice bug
<ajmitch> gah
<ivoks> hr mirror is stuffed :)
<ajmitch> you had to spoil our day
<ivoks> no, that's a good bug
<ivoks> everybody is downloading breezy
<Nafallo> ivoks: http://farbror.acc.umu.se/stats/monitordata/index.shtml
<Nafallo> ivoks: test[01]  is us :-P
<ajmitch> dholbach: still have libofx1c2 around to test the upgrade?
<dholbach> no :(
<ivoks> Nafallo: lol :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: oh well
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'm going to close the bug as fixed, since the upload I did worked for me
<dholbach> right
<bddebian> Isn't libofx1c2 still in the archive?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I hope not
<bddebian> I think it is.
<Nafallo> bddebian: grisbi said it couldn't install it...
<ajmitch> bddebian: not according to packages.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> sigh, someone also filed a bugzilla bug about it
<ajmitch> so many bugs to close
<bddebian> Hmm
* bddebian will have to break out launchpad
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> omg... i'm testing kvirc3 on unstable, and it behaves totally different *g* but looks quite nice :)
<bddebian> unstable?  WTF is that? ;-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<Yagisan> bddebian - he must mean windows :)
<bddebian> hehe
<dholbach> hey sistpoty :)
<dholbach> happy badger-day!
<ajmitch> dholbach: it's still badger day?
<dholbach> yeah :)
<ajmitch> 14th here :)
<bddebian> 10:44am 13th here ;-P
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> 3:44am here ;)
<bddebian> eeks
<dholbach> ouch
<Yagisan> it's only 12:46am here
<ajmitch> getting in training for ubz ;)
<ajmitch> starting to feel a little tired though
<ajmitch> might sleep now
<Yagisan> ajmitch - but you are from the land of V, go on you can do a 24hr shift :)
<ajmitch> already had a couple of V today
<ajmitch> got ~4 hours sleep last night
<ajmitch> so about ready to sleep ;)
* Yagisan had 3 - wife had false labour pains
* ajmitch has only done a 20 hour shift, rather than 24
<ajmitch> Yagisan: due soon?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: within 6 weeks - due November 20
<ajmitch> ah ok
<Yagisan> but we don't think it will last that long
<ajmitch> I hope it all goes well for you all :)
<Yagisan> thanks ajmitch
<ajmitch> ok, good night all
<ajmitch> see you in a few hours
<Yagisan> Goodnight
<sistpoty> gn8 ajmitch
<dholbach> sleep tight andrew
<siretart> hey folks!
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch
<siretart> what are you doing here?  breezy released, go out and party! :)
<Yagisan> siretart - the parties right here
<siretart> hehe
<bddebian> gnight ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<mrimbert> good morning, bddebian
<bddebian> Hello mrimbert
<spayne> well done guys! i'm proud of you all :)
<dholbach> hey guys :)
<dholbach> happy badger day
<spayne> dholbach: the release i made a 1in16000 contribution to!
<dholbach> that was just the first step
<dholbach> we'll be such a ROCKing team for dapper
<bddebian> w0000t
<dholbach> we'll have a cool team infrastructure
* spayne is looking forward to even more packaging!
<dholbach> with different goals, and we'll have universe much cleaner
<dholbach> dapper will be SOOO cool
<spayne> dholbach: different goals?
<bddebian> dholbach: Even with adding a bunch of apt-get.org crap? ;-)
<dholbach> bddebian: absolutely
<dholbach> spayne: we'll have a media team, the desktop team, and teams we all can only dream of, and those will set their own goals, of course, we'll have goals across ubuntu/universe land
<dholbach> :)
<mrimbert> dholbach: what's the team infrastructure going to be like?
<bddebian> How about the "DropTheOldCrapThatNooneCaresAboutTeam" ? ;-P
<spayne> dholbach: and will i be part of it :)?
<dholbach> bddebian: i'll be their secretary :)
<dholbach> spayne: sure
<dholbach> mrimbert: you mean technically?
<mrimbert> dholbach: I sort of starting typing before you described the info about the teams...that's suficient
<mrimbert> ;)
<dholbach> naturally, it all depends on the people forming the teams
<dholbach> and the stuff they want to work on
<dholbach> but i'll do all i can to get them off the ground
<Tonio-> dholbach: nice plan ;) but won't it be a bit short to organise this, define goals, structure teams and do the job ?
<mrimbert> I think a bit more structure may make us (well, at least me) more productive
<dholbach> Tonio-: the teams will be there for more than one release cycle :)
<mrimbert> having bddebian delegate tasks to me would make me even more productive ;)
<bddebian> Hmm
<dholbach> mrimbert: yeah, i guess it's time to form teams and "announce them" and their ideas, so people would fill up the place... i think it's time for it
* bddebian starts his MOTUMorons Team :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach> bddebian: will that be the mentors team or what? *ducks*
<dholbach> just kidding :)
<mrimbert> bddebian: you've always put yourself down, and here you are now a Hero of the MOTUs.  I'm proud of you, dude.
<dholbach> bddebian: that team will take care of the debian/copyright files of apt-get.org, right?
<bddebian> heh.  Bah, who cares about copyright?? ;-P
<dholbach> mrimbert: ++
<bddebian> mrimbert: Thank you but I have no idea why people say that.
<mrimbert> bddebian: you're just being modest
<bddebian> mrimbert: No I'm not.  I really am not very good at this stuff so it's kind of embarrasing :)
<dholbach> bbiab
<spayne> slomo: ping
<slomo> spayne: pong
<spayne> slomo: sods law. the day breezy is released, i have to go and compile banshee, ipod-sharp and libipoddevice from source. sigh.
<slomo> spayne: hehe... why? because your database version is 14 or higher?
<spayne> slomo: yeh :(
<slomo> you can reset the version with gtkpod
<spayne> slomo: i have to format it on my mothers windows box which has iTunes 5/6
<slomo> and expect a new release of banshee soon for dapper ;)
<spayne> slomo: so i could format it on her pc, load it into gtkpod, change the DB and use banshee :)
<spayne> slomo: since Dapper looks like a completly new start, i'm not running it until quite a way on. i can build using pbuilder :)
<slomo> you could try... but afaik all files are lost after changing the version in gtkpod
<spayne> slomo: don't care :)
<spayne> slomo: now that backports can get going properly, i suspect a backported version when it gets into dapper :)
<Nafallo> slomo: make sure something-ipod is the first package in dapper, kthxbai ;-)
<slomo> Nafallo: sure :P it's a requirement for new banshee
<spayne> slomo: and then get it backported :)
<Nafallo> slomo: yea, this means you have to 1) Make a script that checks for when dapper is availible and run a dput, or 2) Be awake and guard the stuff yourself :-).
<bddebian> slomo: Did you upload an xgsmlib fix?
<slomo> Nafallo: :P
<slomo> bddebian: yes... found one in the debian bts
<bddebian> slomo: That doesn't fix it and it doesn't apply ;-)
<slomo> bddebian: wtf? it built fine everywhere?
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> dpatch  apply-all
<bddebian> applying patch 01_gcc-4.0 to ./ ... failed.
<bddebian> make: *** [patch-stamp]  Error 1
<slomo> bddebian: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xgsmlib/0.2-4ubuntu1/
<slomo> applying patch 01_gcc-4.0 to ./ ... ok.
<bddebian> WTF
<slomo> bddebian: hm?
<\sh> bddebian: happy badger day
<\sh> and I slept the whole day
<bddebian> \sh: Yeah, you too :-)
<koke> hi all!
<bddebian> slomo: I don't get why mine won't apply?? :(
<bddebian> Heya koke
<koke> good news (I guess), I may go to UBZ :)
<\sh> bddebian: forget it for now..and check this with flash enabled
<\sh> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/
<bddebian> Awesome. I wish I could go :-(
<bddebian> heh
<mrimbert> Have a good day, all.
<bddebian> You too mrimbert
<mrimbert> gotta get some work done
<mrimbert> :)
<sistpoty> cya guys
* Diablo-D3 throws party
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<dholbach> re, thanks barry :)
<bddebian> :-)
* \sh is lazy
* spayne is worried about bird flu
<crimsun> damn you, slashdot.
<\sh> crimsun: ?
<bddebian> crimsun: Just out of curiosity did you ever get VLC merged?
<crimsun> bddebian: yes, reverted to wxwindows2.4
<crimsun> ii  vlc                             0.8.4-svn20050920-3+hal0ubuntu3
<bddebian> crimsun: Ah.. nice
<bddebian> crimsun: Did that close any of the Malone bugs? ;-)
<crimsun> \sh: whoever posted to slashdot used a direct link to the isos on us.releases, which effectively craps the entire breezy-updates part
<crimsun> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> Sweet
* bddebian is Malone bug whore
<\sh> jepp
<\sh> crimsun: but now we have also easy ubuntu...and i hope it doesn
<\sh> 't come along with a new idea of inofficial backports
<\sh> anyways...i
<\sh> bah...
<\sh> i need some food....
<\sh> #laters
<bddebian> Later \sh
<Nafallo> tseng: I might have found something you want ;-)
<Nafallo> tseng: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/rapt-proxy/
<GazerWork> http://portal.mnet.net.uk/Canonical/access4.lon2-g0-3-day.png <-- trafico de las ultimas 24 hs de Ubuntu :)
<Nafallo> GazerWork: meaning? :-)
<Diablo-D3> so guys
<Diablo-D3> I think gazer said "holy shit, look at ubuntu traffic over the past 24 hours"
<Nafallo> datacenter?
<Diablo-D3> hahahah 680mbit/sec+ for long periods
<Diablo-D3> for, lets say, 8 hours
<Diablo-D3> so thats 85mb/sec
<Diablo-D3> and lets say the cd is 700 megs
<Diablo-D3> it takes roughly 8.25 seconds to download that cd.
<Diablo-D3> and theres been 28800 seconds in those 8 hours
<Diablo-D3> thats almost 3491 downloads.
<Diablo-D3> or lets say, almost 3500, make it nice and round.
<dholbach> with torrent turned on, i just served 3 :)
<Diablo-D3> so in the first 8 hours, one mirror served 3500 copies of the cd.
<bddebian> w00t
* bddebian doesn't know what to do with himself now.. ;-)
<jamessan|work> take a break  :)
<dholbach> bddebian: bug triage
<Diablo-D3> I'm going to go blogabout this
<dholbach> :)
<bddebian> dholbach: pfft :-)
<bddebian> How can I fix bugs when I can't upload? :-)
<dholbach> just to close the ones that are fixed/crack, forward that stuff that needs to be done upstream, ...
<dholbach> "just"
* dholbach has enough to do for desktop-bugs
<dholbach> or ask, if users still have the problem
<Diablo-D3> you cant upload?
<Diablo-D3> why not?
<dholbach> because dapper is not open yet
<dholbach> and breezy closed
<Diablo-D3> oh
* Diablo-D3 thought dapper was open, nm
<Nafallo> se.releases.ubuntu.com already served more than 4TB :-)
<Diablo-D3> Nafallo: yeah, but how much in the first 8 hours?
<Nafallo> that's install and live for i386 and amd64, aswell as install kubuntu i386 :-)
<Nafallo> http://farbror.acc.umu.se/stats/monitordata/index.shtml
<Nafallo> test[01]  is us :-)
* Diablo-D3 will caluclate that one in a second
<Diablo-D3> hrm
<Diablo-D3> this only has about 7 hours
* Diablo-D3 bullshits and says its 8.
<Nafallo> well, it had to sync it first ;-)
<Diablo-D3> 2148 + 1902 gbyte
<Diablo-D3> 4050 gigs
<Diablo-D3> 4147200 megs
<Diablo-D3> /7*8 to correct for only 7 hours of data
<Diablo-D3> 4739657 megs
<Diablo-D3> hrm
<Diablo-D3> thats not what I want
<Diablo-D3> doh
* Diablo-D3 needs to do that from kbyte/sec
<Diablo-D3> 203.7mbit +180.3mbit average
<Diablo-D3> 384
<Diablo-D3> 439mbit/sec over 8 hours
<Diablo-D3> 54mbyte/sec over 8 hours
<Diablo-D3> er 55
<Diablo-D3> 13 seconds to download the iso
<Diablo-D3> almost 2216 times
* Diablo-D3 ups that to 2225 to make it nice and round
<Tonio-> hum.... have a technical question, maybe someone will know....
<bddebian> Tonio-: Shoot
<Tonio-> is there any linux tool that can allow data extraction from an exchange 5.5 database ?
<bddebian> Data extraction?
<Tonio-> I need to recover datas that are in an exchange 5.5 database...
<Tonio-> but here I have AD2003 + echange 2003.... I don't want to rebuild a complete environnement for this....
<Tonio-> and didn't find any windows for this (except paying ones)
<dredg> exmerge
<dredg> it can dump mailboxes to pst files
<Tonio-> dredg: I have an exchange database, EDB ;)
<Tonio-> with pst the problem would have been resolved in 3 minutes ;)
<Tonio-> and exmerge 2003 causes issues with 5.5 format....
<Tonio-> I already tried that without success
<Tonio-> I agree it works fine with exmerge provided with exchange 2000
<Tonio-> dredg: what I can do is reinstall an exchange 5.5 and use exmerge, but that needs a maximum windows 2000 server, which means resinstalling a full environment.....
<bddebian> wb \sh
<dredg> Tonio-: sorry, i've not used exchange in 3 years and i'm running on fuckall sleep
<\sh> re
<dredg> i'm out of ideas
<\sh> what?
<Tonio-> dredg: hehe, no pb, anyway thanks for the suggestion ;) It seems microsoft broke any possible work or link between 5.5 and 2003
<\sh> Tonio-: evo and exchange 2003?
<Tonio-> Windows 2003 refuses to let that 5.5 install..... while it works with 2000
<dredg> the db formats maybe. perhaps you can join a 5.5 server to a 2003 org?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> normal
<\sh> never use windows, if there is a unix way
<Tonio-> dredg: no impossible to join, already tried ;)
<\sh> and this way's named lotus notes
* bddebian pukes
<Tonio-> anyway.... gonna install a windows 2000 server, a new active directory, exchange 5.5 (that need a domain to install, f**k), and play with exmerge....
* Tonio- calls that a pain in "what you know"
<\sh> Tonio-: u want to migrate?
<Tonio-> no, I have to check old datas that have been lost by my boss (stupid guy that doesn't want to make pst backups)....
<\sh> Tonio-: ah...
<Tonio-> datas have been save 3 years ago....
<\sh> 5.5 and 2000 compatible somehow
<\sh> 5.0 and 5.5 not
<\sh> and 2003 is out of question
<Tonio-> \sh: yes it is compatible
<Tonio-> that's the reason I need to build a AD v2000 on a W2000 server....
* \sh tried once the way from 5.5 back to 5.0 
<Tonio-> compatibility problems is really the total evidence of opensource advantages..... ;)
<Tonio-> well, have to go, but thanks for your help \sh and dredg
<\sh> the mail storages we rescued it was 5 days in a row to import it back to 5.0
<\sh> calendar data never came back
<Tonio-> \sh: please don't say any other word, calendar is what I have to backup so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
<Tonio-> let me think it'll work ;)
<\sh> Tonio-: no ways
<\sh> Tonio-: it's even written in migration papers of ms
<\sh> the way 5.5 -> 5.0 that is ;)
<\sh> but 5.5 -> 2000 was the same somehow...calendar data missing
<\sh> because they're using a stupid system how they manage the user in windows and exchange
<\sh> if this strange user-sid is not the same forget it
<Tonio-> well I don't have to migrate in fact, If I rebuild the complete environement, just export from exchange 5.5 in pst..... that may work but is a hedge long process for a stupid calendar....
<\sh> Tonio-: do u have a bdc?
<Tonio-> no bdc in 2000 and 2003 environnement :)
<Tonio-> that's for NT
<dredg> have you multiple DC's?
<Tonio-> all that you have is domain controllers and a "pdc emulator"
<Tonio-> yep
<\sh> Tonio-: that's what a backup dc is nowadays...
<Tonio-> multiple but everything is 2003
<bddebian> Well you do have a DMFSO ;-)
<\sh> Tonio-: argl...in there are all the user data which is needed to restore the structure
<Tonio-> technically all my dcs have roles so none of them is a "backup"
<Tonio-> well, i really think that building an isolated environnement from scratch is the easier way to proceed, even if the longuer.....
<\sh> Tonio-: good luck
<Tonio-> why didn't they bought the exchange agent for arcserve ???? !!!!!
<\sh> bddebian: dmfso?
<bddebian> Domain Master File System Object iirc
<Tonio-> \sh: thanks for the encouragements ;)
<bddebian> Basically a PDC that they don't tell you is a PDC ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: thx god ,) something new jesus learned today ;)
<bddebian> heh
<dredg> no, not voodoo. and all in clear understandable english.
<dredg> *cough*
<LaserJock> hi all, is there a place that I can find some instructions/documentation/info on launchpad?
<\sh> LaserJock: there was today an announcement on ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> i'm out for a beed and some food... see you later
<bddebian> Later Daniel
<ogra> :/
<LaserJock> wow, this launchpad thing is cool
<LaserJock> hmm, Karma: 0   that's not good ;-)
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/hula/+bug/3073
<Nafallo> anyone understand that one? :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, get bugfixin' ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'm on it ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Your goal is to catch ajmitch's karma by the end of October ;-P
<LaserJock> ohhh, I don't think so
<bddebian> LaserJock: Mine then? ;-)
<LaserJock> not, even
<bddebian> C'mon man, mine is lower that ajmitch's
<LaserJock> maybe buy Dapper+3 or so
<bddebian> ANd I'm st00pid
<LaserJock> what happens to stuff form UniverseFTBS that didn't make Breezy?
<bddebian> LaserJock: It will get fixed for Dapper?
<LaserJock> well, ok, let me be more clear. I requested syncs of dvi2ps and wterm but I just got an email from elmo that they didn't make it.
<LaserJock> how do I make sure they get synced for Dapper?
<LaserJock> will elmo do it automatically?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Might be good just to send him a reminder in a week or two but I can't say for sure.
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> bddebian: btw, you aren't too far behind ajmitch in the karma race. I wouldn't worry too much ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock: first all syncs are coming from debian sid to ubuntu again
<\sh> LaserJock: and then we will have the MoM run again...and in this time, we will check if we can forget the ubuntu changes and sync from debian
<\sh> LaserJock: and if everythings fine with LP we can trigger the syncs from LP
<LaserJock> ahh, cool
<\sh> THAT's a PLAN...THAT's what I think is a PLAN ;)
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> i get the feeling that lists.ubuntu.com is misconfigured :/
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<Nafallo> \sh: oh?! rock on :-)
<Nafallo> ivoks: dude... ENOBANDWIDTH rather :-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: ?
<\sh> ivoks: we're ruling da world
<ivoks> i know :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: http://portal.mnet.net.uk/Canonical/access4.lon2-g0-3.html
<Nafallo> :-)
<ivoks> you should see hr.comp.os.linux
<ivoks> ubuntu is THE topic
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL TRAFFIC ;)
<ivoks> :)
<slomo> hmm... i wonder what would happen if they all used the torrents? ;)
<ivoks> i wanted to net install 20 machines in my lab
<ivoks> heh... after 7 retrys on mirror i gave up :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: apt-proxy... ;-)
<\sh> slomo: see it like this...ubuntu is driving actually the current german DENIC traffic only with some isos ;)
<ivoks> Nafallo: it was too late :)
<ivoks> Nafallo: i have proxy
<Nafallo> :-P
<ivoks> Nafallo: but first machine couldn't get trough... :)
<Nafallo> I know what you mean... :-)
<Nafallo> I runned apt-get update for 25 minutes ;-(
<slomo> \sh: woah nice =) where do you get this from?
<\sh> slomo: last time I had a look over the traffic stats of denic, it was ~3-4GB/s
<Nafallo> lol
<\sh> slomo: and that was only the normal p0rn traffic in germany
<bddebian> ehe
<Nafallo> "why are the Internet sinced? new ubuntu release!"
<bddebian> Uhm
<\sh> slomo: denic[!^telecom] 
<slomo> hm, does someone have access to a weird architecture? sparc or ia64 maybe? ;)
<ivoks> jesus...
<ivoks> even ubuntu.com is slow :)
<slomo> ivoks: _everything_ is slow ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> slomo: even cnn.com :)
<\sh> ivoks: *.UBUNTU.COM is  SWITCHING DA HELL
<\sh> blinkenlights ;)
<bddebian> WE'RE BRINGING DOWN DER INTARWEB.. w000t :-)
<ivoks> :)
<LaserJock> oh no, bddebian I just filed a Malone bug. Is that negative karma or something ;-)
<crimsun> yeah, it means his karma is reset to nil
<crimsun> ;-)
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> I guess, if I fix it then I'm even
<ivoks> bye guys!
<ivoks> great job!
<bddebian> Later ivoks, you too! :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yep, -1 + 1 = 0 ;-P
<Diablo-D3> http://shadowconflict.blogspot.com/2005/10/ubuntu-510-breezy-is-out.html
<Diablo-D3> btw, if anyone wants that
<tseng> Nafallo: nice
<Diablo-D3> 5725 potential users <3
<ajmitch> morning all
<trulux> heya ajmitch
<ivoks> ajmitch: morning
<\sh> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/ <---- that runs now all the time on the r200 in a very nerving high volume setting ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> \sh: how drunk are you? ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: no beer, no alc at all :) only coke
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch didn't even get close to drunk yesterday
<\sh> ajmitch: if you hear this all the day, I think you'll get a high at all ;)
<\sh> badger badger badger badger
<\sh> mushroooohooom ;)
<ivoks> :)))
<\sh> lol
<\sh> I like it ;)
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> \sh: you need professional help :)
<\sh> ivoks: heheh
<ogra> shnake !
<bddebian> Yes, he does :-)
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> ogra: got the iso tested & released?
<ogra>  mins ago
<ogra> 2
<ajmitch> congrats
<ogra> thanks ...
<bddebian> w00t
<ogra> was the wors stuff ever ...
<ogra> worst...
<ogra> i was expecting to be happy in the end... but somehiw this frustrating day overcasted it all...
<ajmitch> next release will be far smoother :)
<ogra> probably oly a lack of sleep
<ivoks> lol
<ogra> hopefully
<ivoks> check this out
<ivoks> EU Claims Internet Could Fall Apart Next Month
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> ogra: we'll cheer you up at UBZ
<ivoks> must be the breezy thing :)
<\sh> now this is the worst blog entry I ever made...this will annoy everybody
<ogra> ivoks, then they shoudld tighten the screws before that happens, silly EU
<\sh> it's a blog flash ddos ,-)
<Nafallo> ivoks: answer them with that dapper will not be released till 6.04 ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ogra: now most things are settled...write your announcement and go to bed...u'll need your strength tomorrow
<LaserJock> cya guys, It's time to install a freshly burned Breezy Badger :-)
<ogra> \sh, announcement is out ... waiting for jdub to moderate it
<\sh> damn...it's filtered
<\sh> for dapper I need really a _real_ WS
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I don't know when I'll be able to replace my existing box
<\sh> not a small laptop like this...amd64 4gb ram, 250gb sata hd...
<ajmitch> but it's > 3 years old now
* ajmitch has an athlon xp 1800+
<ajmitch> \sh: raid it :)
<ajmitch> I'd fill up 250GB too quickly
<\sh> ajmitch: hey I'm running here with a 40gb hd
<ajmitch> ouch
<Nafallo> hehe
* ajmitch has 120+160 in his main box
<\sh> 15GB for / 300MB /boot 1GB swap the rest /home
* Nafallo has 60GB and is a regular user of rm :-P
<Nafallo> 300MB /boot. WTF are you planning to place there? 5 elephants and a kernel?
<Nafallo> :-)
* ajmitch has a 15GB /var & that's 99% full
<Nafallo> ehm?
<\sh> Nafallo: i know...it was a mistake in the beginning of installing hoary ;)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: too much pr0n.
<Nafallo> saving stuff uploaded to the archive?
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: too much apt-proxy
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: baah. ~/pr0n for that :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: adjust your conf dude :-P
<ivoks> ws?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: no kidding :)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: "local mirror". :-)
* Mithrandir pats his 80G 2.5" drive he carries around
<ajmitch> I figure it's about time I cleaned out all old versions in apt-proxy for breezy
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: yes, I should put that on the spare box
<\sh> Mithrandir: nifty toys...my 160GB is only used as local jukebox for shuffle mp3s ,-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: just adjust the conf and it should do that itself with next apt-get update? :-)
* bddebian has 40Gb / and that's it.. :-)
* ivoks has 80gb
<ajmitch> Nafallo: probably not
<\sh> but anyways...my dingeling is bigger ,-)
<ajmitch> haha
<Mithrandir> \sh: you don't get 2.5" of more than ~120G => not bus powered => not usable with a laptop.
<\sh> Mithrandir: it's 3.5" and not for travelling
<\sh> ogra: should I setup a dircproxy for u?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: true. probably croned :-)
<ogra> \sh, i'm fine with my laptop running 24h :) but thanks
<\sh> ogra: bah..your laptop is a full WS but without the tower chassy
<\sh> ok..last cigarette...tomorrow I have to get up early to leave early ;)
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I think apt-proxy's cleanup code just isn't working right for me
<bddebian> Ahhh, see that bug count rise...
<slomo> spayne: <snorp> dopi in baz has a local entagged-sharp
<slomo> spayne: prepare a package ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: file a bug or something ;-)
<spayne> slomo: for dapper or breezy? :)
<ogra> spayne, breey is closed
<slomo> spayne: dapper obviously :P
<ogra> *breezy
<Nafallo> spayne: dude! breezy is released...
<ajmitch> Nafallo: sure :P
<spayne> i know
<spayne> sladen: but doesn't dapper not open till tuesday
<spayne> whoops!
<slomo> spayne: i'm not sladen... but yes... what is the problem with that? ;)
<spayne> slomo: but doesn't dapper not open till tuesday
<Nafallo> spayne: isn't that what "prepare" means? :-)
<spayne> Nafallo: yes - i am stupid
* spayne starts
* Nafallo will better prepare himself for being up all night doing merges and syncs... ;-)
<Nafallo> s/night/nights/ probably :-P
<ajmitch> we only have a thousand or so to do
<spayne> slomo: iirc, to start, does this sound right?
<slomo> Nafallo: hehe, same here ;)
<slomo> spayne: ?
<spayne> slomo: a.) get it from baz b.) run autogen.sh && make dist c.) dh_make d.) start customizing files?
<\sh> ogra: any complaints about the easter egg on edubuntu.org?
<slomo> spayne: or take your custom template instead of dh_make... but yes, sounds ok
<spayne> slomo: yey! is till have the touch ;)
<spayne> \sh: easter egg?
<ogra> \sh, the easter egg  ?
<Nafallo> ehm... oops :-P
* Nafallo goes to install dh-make :-)
<slomo> spayne: sure but at least my personal template is less work than dh-make ;)
<\sh> ogra: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots <--- check hangman
* spayne looks on edubuntu
* \sh grabs some water...
* ajmitch needs a serious caffiene hit :)
<Nafallo> lol
<spayne> \sh: hopefully, those interested won't know what it means
<Nafallo> spayne: well, they need to run wtf wtf then :-P
<\sh> spayne: well...someone had fun
<bddebian> heh
<spayne> ogra: is there a way to get that funky artwork for breezy?
<\sh> ogra: don't tell me u didn't know?
<bddebian> And what's with the penis for Mr. Potato Guy? ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: lol....it should describe a nose, u potatoe head ,-)
<bddebian> Oh I guess that's a nose.. :-)
<ajmitch> haha
<slomo> lol
<ogra> \sh, i didnt :) i was to busy to chech the webstuff... even the above screenshots were made here...
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra: leave it until complains are coming...even jane found it funny ;)
<ajmitch> jane finds too many things like that funny ;)
<ogra> bah, i can handle complaints, it wll stay :)
<\sh> bddebian: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/page6/ <- last picture left ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> and the pictures of her kids on page 7..I'll need to talk about some meet up during a WYKC
* Nafallo grumbles
<Nafallo> I can't get Release.gpg from anywhere :-(
<Kyral> Did like something happen to VLC?
<Kyral> Because suddenly it reverted back to using GTK 1...
<ajmitch> Kyral: yes
<Kyral> can I ask how I can get it back looking like it used to?
<ajmitch> you can fix it so that it doesn't badly break with wx 2.6
<Kyral> eh?
<ajmitch> it was reverted to wx 2.4 for a reason
<Kyral> and now its even more busted
<ajmitch> why do you say it's busted?
<Kyral> Because it won't start period
<Kyral> I thought it was a plugin, so I removed and purged VLC's configs
<bddebian> \sh: Yeah I saw that one :-)
<Kyral> reinstall, thing doesn't work at all
<ajmitch> you could look at the command line to see any output
<crimsun> doesn't start?
<crimsun> I tested on all three platforms before I uploaded ubuntu3.
<crimsun> I know there's a sync issue with flacs, but it's not a show-stopper
<crimsun> and I reverted to wxwindows2.4 because wxwidgets2.6 has broken UTF-8 parsing
<Kyral> wazzat mean
<ajmitch> bddebian: the bug count on malone is rising :)
<Kyral> and brb, I have to move my laundry to the dryer
<Nafallo> ajmitch: well. I can't even download packagelists, even less sources.
* Nafallo is more then a bit annoyed about saturising the datacenter...
<crimsun> Kyral: it means you can't load files via the playlist if I were to build against wxwidgets2.6
<Kyral> Crimsun it was working perfectly last night
<Kyral> then again....I don't use the playlist../
<crimsun> hah
<crimsun> just because you don't use the playlist doesn't mean it's not broken
<Kyral> Yah yah yah I know
<Kyral> ;p
<Kyral> Could you toss me the old one against wxwidgets2.6?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye, no kidding :-)
<Kyral> wait a tic, I think its in Debian Sid...
<Kyral> nm I'll build it myself :D
<crimsun> do not EVER ask about bugs in it in here, then
<crimsun> (and I apologize for my tone)
<bddebian> ??
<Kyral> Crimsun I know what I'm doing ;P
<Kyral> I'll only bitch if I'm using the Ubuntu one ;P
<crimsun> I'm sure you do, but I'm not going field wxwidgets2.6 questions until it's fixed
<Kyral> I don't even know what that is beyond that it makes VLC look pretty ;P
<crimsun> bddebian: oh, you know the fallout from reverting the widget set to make vlc actually work...
<crimsun> bddebian: besides that, nothing much ;-)
<Kyral> Yah I overreacted
<Kyral>  One night it looked all nice in my theme, today its back to GTK1 gray ick ;P
<crimsun> trust me, I did not want to do it, but making it work was more important than making it pretty.
<crimsun> granted, it's suboptimal, but some people do rely heavily on the playlist
<Kyral> icky
<Kyral> still won't load
<\sh> crimsun: it was the right thing to do
<crimsun> if the one from Debian won't load, then it's definitely not a vlc issue
<Kyral> Its the new one from Universe
<crimsun> \sh: absolutely, I have no question about it
<Kyral> I'm catching a segfault
<crimsun> Kyral: -vvv output to paste.ubuntulinux.nl, please
<Kyral> -vvv?
<crimsun> vlc -vvv
<Kyral> Yah, just lemme capture it...
<bddebian> crimsun: Ahh :-)
<Tonio-> \sh: [mylife]  restoring calendar from exchange worked ;) [/mylife] 
<\sh> Tonio-: congrats :)
<Kyral> crud that just grabbed the ncurses interface
<\sh> good night fellow motus :)
<Kyral> it loads like 3 interfaces at once and then loads more..
<crimsun> night \sh
<bddebian> Gnight \sh
<Tonio-> success seems to be there, update servers, download servers, everything seems to be overloaded ;)
<Tonio-> nite \sh
<Kyral> crimsun, its over 4000 lines long...
<Kyral> I had to use the script command to capture it
<crimsun> ok, bzip2 it, e-mail it to crimsunkg@yahoo
<Kyral> I'm also gonna include the apt-cache policy on it, okay?
<bddebian> Man, this is weird, not knowing what to do.. :-)
<Kyral> Relax?
<Kyral> crimsun thats @yahoo.com right?
<ajmitch> bddebian: have a beer for us
* ajmitch only has empties unless I visit the fridge ;)
<crimsun> Kyral: yes
<Kyral> kk
<ajmitch> plus it's far too early in the day for me to be drinking :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh, I'm still at the office or I'd be testing bugs on my Ubuntu box ;-P
<ajmitch> haha
<Kyral> sent
<ajmitch> they frown on drinking at work? ;)
<Kyral> No way..Debian's source isn't the newest
<bddebian> ajmitch: Nah
<crimsun> Kyral: still haven't received it
<Kyral> I sent it
<crimsun> did you bzip2 it first?
<Kyral> yah
<crimsun> and you sent it to crimsunkg@yahoo?
<spayne> night all
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> rom: 	Chris Peterman <petermcv@clarkson.edu>
<Kyral> To: 	crimsunkg@yahoo.com
<Kyral> I'm gonna get dinner. No use trying to build anyway with the mirrors swamped
<bddebian> I think I'm going to close 2923??
<ajmitch> no
<bddebian> No?
<bddebian> Can you reproduce it?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> but don't say 'I think...???'
<bddebian> Huh?
<ajmitch> you have checked that the directories are created when it installs?
<bddebian> Actually I think you are right, it doesn't iirc
<crimsun> install -d or mkdir -p
<ajmitch> bug jeff if it's a real bug :)
<bddebian> Bailey?
<bddebian> Oh yeah it's glibc huh
<bddebian> I think that's why I stopped looking at it :-)
<ajmitch> yes, jbailey himself
<ajmitch> the man
<bddebian> My idol ;-)
<ajmitch> got the tshirt yet?
<bddebian> Actually that sicko is the one that told me to come here.. ;-)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> so we can blame him, eh? ;)
<bddebian> Yeah, I already warned him of that :-)
* ajmitch will talk to him at UBZ...
<bddebian> Hmm, that's not good
<bddebian> ajmitch: Am I going to get banned? :-)
<bddebian> Heya azeem
<azeem> hi
<azeem> did the release happen?  If so, congrats
<bddebian> Yep
<ajmitch> azeem: yes it did, thanks
<ajmitch> bddebian: banned? skinned alive, perhaps
<bddebian> Doh
<ajmitch> we're all friends here
<bddebian> I wonder if I'll get my @ubuntu.com e-mail fixed for Dapper? :-)
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> bddebian: ping someone to get added to the ubuntu members team on launchpad
<bddebian> I am
<ajmitch> one of the CC ,when they're not recovering from release
<bddebian> I'm already there
<bddebian> At least I think I am
<ajmitch> where?
<ajmitch> Barry deFreese is a member of these teams.
<ajmitch> * MOTU (Administrator) * New User Network (Approved) * Ubuntu Development Team (Approved)
<ajmitch> not in members
<bddebian> https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian
<bddebian> Oh, hmm
<bddebian> I thought Ubuntite: Yes meant I was .. Hmm
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> ubuntite means you've signed the CoC
<ajmitch> Andrew Mitchell is a member of these teams.
<ajmitch> * Debian/Ubuntu Zope Team (Administrator) * MOTU (Administrator) * MOTU Mono Team (Administrator) * Ubuntu Core Development Team (Approved) * Ubuntu Development Team (Approved) * Ubuntu GNOME Team (Approved) * Ubuntu Members (Approved)
<ajmitch> *cough*
<bddebian> Well aren't you special? :-)
* ajmitch == team addict
<ajmitch> I'm thpethial alright
<ogra> night all
<ajmitch> night ogra
<ajmitch> sleep well, you deserve it after a release :)
<slomo> gn8 ogra :)
<Nafallo> #  MOTU  (Administrator)
<Nafallo> # MOTU Instant Messaging (Administrator)
<Nafallo> # Ubuntu Development Team (Approved)
<Nafallo> # Ubuntu Members (Approved)
<Nafallo> # Ubuntu Swedish Translators (Administrator)
<Nafallo> :-)
<bddebian> Heh
<Nafallo> gnight ogra :-)
<slomo> ok, good night everybody :) i'll be back on monday/sunday evening ;)
<bddebian> I wonder if I can collect on this bounty: https://launchpad.net/bounties/chquite ;-P
<bddebian> Gnight slomo, congrats and Good Job! :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: probably
<ajmitch> just declare your undying love & marry it
<bddebian> Hehe
<ajmitch> I'm sure they'll allow that in the US soon :P
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Oh well I'd better head home.  Catch you later gang.
<ajmitch> bye bddebian
<ajmitch> see you later
<mbreit> good evening!
<ajmitch> hi mbreit
<ajmitch> dooglus: what's with malone 3116?
<dooglus> ajmitch: I don't know.
<dooglus> ajmitch: what do you mean?
<ajmitch> dooglus: I'm just wondering how you're trying to build it
<ajmitch> unless you're trying to modify configure.in & rerun autoconf..?
<dooglus> ajmitch: I just typed "./configure" in shadow-4.0.3
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-19
<ajmitch> and..?
<ajmitch> we know that the package builds, seeing as it's in main
<dooglus> and I see the output I pasted in the bug report
<ajmitch> dooglus: why not building the package normally?
<ajmitch> instead of running ./configure?
<dooglus> ajmitch: what's the normal way to build a package?
<ajmitch> dpkg-buildpackage, or using debuild, or pbuilder build..
<ajmitch> all of which are equivalent
<dooglus> ok.
<dooglus> I'll try that.
<dooglus> how should I have found those commands without you telling me?
<ajmitch> debian NM guide, or asking how you build packages
<ajmitch> or various wiki pages like PackagingTips
<Unfrgiven> slomo: i can package it from here on. thanks for your help. the plan is to put it into backports and into universe in dapper. can you send me the package sources? ankur.kotwal@gmail.com thanks again.
<ajmitch> or IntroDeveloperDocs, of course
<dooglus> "of course"?
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven is the author :)
<ajmitch> I could hardly forget his contribution
<ajmitch> ok, shadow built perfectly fine in pbuilder as expected :)
<dooglus> I was using the traditional configure;make incantation.  I wasn't aware of dpkg-buildpackage
<ajmitch> they're packaged for a reason
<ajmitch> debian/rules controls how configure, make, etc are called
<dooglus> ok.
<ajmitch> for shadow, debian/patches/324_configure.in-no-debian-dir.dpatch removed that line from configure
<dooglus> oh yes!
<ajmitch> there are 134 patches for shadow there :)
<dooglus> sometimes when I "apt-get source", patches get applied automatically, and other times (like this time) they don't get applied (presumably until I use dpkg-buildpackage)
<ajmitch> when you apt-get source, it applies the diff.gz
<ajmitch> which contains the debian/ dir
<ajmitch> and often other things
<ajmitch> these are build-time patches
<ajmitch> makes it a lot easier to keep them separate
<dooglus> ok
<dooglus> thanks for your help.
<ajmitch> no problem
<dooglus> did you notice I asked about this in #ubuntu-devel before posting the bug?
<ajmitch> no I didn't
<ajmitch> how long did you wait before posting?
<ajmitch> the only thing I see you asking is if bugs go to malone now
<chillywilly> yay, Breezy is released
<Kyral> Time to rebuild VLC...
<ajmitch> yep
<chillywilly> were you guys able to accomplish everyting you wanted to for universe?
<chillywilly> erm, for the release
<ajmitch> of course not
<Kyral> nope, for me at least. I didn't gain MOTU Powah
<ajmitch> you didn't help us out :P
<ajmitch> Kyral: there was hardly time for you to get up to speed on it
<chillywilly> bah
<Kyral> Yah I know
<Kyral> Twas a pun :P
<chillywilly> the archive server is slow
<chillywilly> probably gettin hammered
<ajmitch> no surprise there
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> I am doing a sudo apt-get -d dist-upgrade on 2 boxes :)
<Kyral> I'm pbuildering libdvbpsi
<chillywilly> time to go home
<Kyral> why does Sid VLC depend on libdvbpsi and Breezy VLC doesn't?
* Kyral wonders what would happen if he dist-upgraded while Sid repos were active...
<Kyral> I mean I know I would wind up in SID land....but how major would breakage be...
<zul> evening
<ajmitch> hi
<bmonty> hi everyone
<ajmitch> hello bmonty
<bmonty> enjoying the break?
<Kyral> I'm actually bored ;P
<bmonty> ajmitch: so what happens now, does automatic syncing with debian get turned on again?
<ajmitch> when dapper reopens
<ajmitch> the flood starts
<bmonty> does that cause lots of breakage?
<ajmitch> oh yes
<ajmitch> we could have *lots* of breakage :)
<ajmitch> it's fun
<bmonty> I'm sure
* bmonty rolls his eyes
* Nafallo preps galago ;-)
<Kyral> Yanno what would cause more breakage?
<Kyral> Breezy -> Sid
<ajmitch> Kyral: packages out of sync
<Nafallo> ajmitch: btw, what to do when I don't have a dapper-pbuilder to build at? :-)
<ajmitch> we have to rush to get our ubuntu changes merged in to minimise the breakage
<Kyral> ajmitch, no kiddin' I saw what would happen if I did it ;P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: dist-upgrade :P
<Nafallo> ajmitch: it's not opened ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: then use breezy for now
<ajmitch> man..
<ajmitch> ;)
<bmonty> you have to figure breezy and badger will be very similar for at least a couple weeks :)
<LaserJock> hi bmonty, I got my IRC port blocking problem fixed
<Kyral> Hot ***!
<Kyral> the Servers are back!
<ajmitch> bmonty: *cough*
<ajmitch> bmonty: breezy & dapper? ;)
<Kyral> uhh
<Nafallo> so... build the debian packages that will ftbfs because of dbus/libdbus against breezy, dist-upgrade to dapper, rebuild them and then dput :-)
<bmonty> ajmitch: yeah...whoops
<ajmitch> bmonty: there might be a few thousand packages synced in the first couple of weeks
<Kyral> anyone getting a GPG Key error on the Breezy Update server
<ajmitch> Nafallo: eh?
<bmonty> LaserJock: did the "I need IRC to do my studies" story work? :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: no? :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: you're only going to upload source anyway, so just do the merges like usual
<ajmitch> LaserJock: excellent
<bmonty> dapper - badger....sounds the same to me :P
<LaserJock> bmonty, no I found out that freenode also has port 8001 which wasn't blocked by my university
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hah, nice evasion
<bmonty> ahh...hopefully they are complacent and don't notice the traffic :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they're probably mainly trying to stop botnets & illegal filesharing anyway :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: well, I have to merge and build those libs (that's in debian) so that I can use them for building the other parts that's not in debian :-)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah that's why I knew that they wouldn't open the port for me
<ajmitch> Nafallo: or you could just wait a few days & have a break :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: and then merge those when they arrive in dapper so that I can send the rest of them to NEW ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: just let them sync, FTBFS, and then fix the source
<bmonty> grrr, I'm getting tired of the script kiddies probing my ssh server
<ajmitch> Nafallo: plenty of other stuff to work on still until dapper opens
<Nafallo> ajmitch: oh? :-)
<Nafallo> bmonty: :-)
<bmonty> you can help me get OpenLDAP and Kerberos working :)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: clean up malone, get fixed packages queued for upload
<Nafallo> why?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: because the packages are still broken & will be broken after dapper opens :P
<Nafallo> new versions will probably be merged or synced for most of it anyway?
<ajmitch> most, but not all
<ajmitch> we've generally merged in a lot of new upstream versions to fix the more serious bugs
<Nafallo> baah, we need an *ubuntu* search for Malone then? :-)
<ajmitch> what?
<Nafallo> to see what's not going to be synced automatically.
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/merges
<bmonty> ajmitch: do you think the freeze on syncs with debian helps or ends up causing more problems....seems like keeping the syncs on longer would cause less problems
<Nafallo> :-)
<LaserJock> I assume that synced packages don't override packages that have a *ubuntu version number. Is that right?
<ajmitch> bmonty: I think it helps, and we'll enforce it more strictly for dapper
<ajmitch> LaserJock: correct
<ajmitch> LaserJock: which is why we have > 1200 source packages in breezy with an ubuntu* version
<lifeless> bmonty: keeping the syncs on longer, means, 'get more changes'
<ajmitch> a lot of them will need manually merged
<lifeless> bmonty: which means, if debian do, say, a gcc4 transition in the middle of our freeze, 'break everything later'
<tseng> that will be pain
<ajmitch> sure
<bmonty> lifeless: maybe, but it also seems like the way to fix a lot of FTBFS packages was a sync
* tseng hates on MOM
<ajmitch> and you can have a merge that applies cleanly but is still dead wrong
<tseng> i always have that
<lifeless> bmonty: yes, but its an explicit choice.
<tseng> it does stupid stuff with build-deps
<ajmitch> bmonty: getting random crack from unstable later into the release just means less chance to fix the bugs that are introduced
<bmonty> lifeless: true, maybe we need a different process for getting the syncs done
<ajmitch> bmonty: there will be
<ajmitch> but it'll stay essentially the same
<bmonty> lol
<ajmitch> we freeze for a reason
<ajmitch> I think sync requests will be done via launchpad at some point
<bmonty> yeah, I'm not saying that the freeze is a bad idea, just that based on what I worked on it seemed the freeze cause a good portion of the issues
<ajmitch> bmonty: just think of how many more issues you might have seen without the freeze
<ajmitch> we're grabbing from debian *unstable*, it's called that for a reason :)
<ajmitch> (and not just because of the developers)
<bmonty> ajmitch: for packages in main, I would definately agree...universe, I'm not so sure
<bmonty> ajmitch: yeah, when sarge was release I stopped running unstable
<ajmitch> bmonty: UVF is essential for universe
<ajmitch> I know ogra agrees with me on that
<LaserJock> the FTBFS packages I was working on where older than testing, how does that happen? Is it just overlooked?
<ajmitch> lifeless: btw, python can't import files with a - in the filename?
<lifeless> ajmitch: correct
<bmonty> well you guys have more experience with this than me, so I'm sure it is the best choice
<lifeless> ajmitch: bzr-man is a script :0
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I agree with you to fwiw :-)
<ajmitch> lifeless: a script, but most of it is a function :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: don't feel bad, I thought the same thing ;-)
<lifeless> patches accepted gratefully :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: yeah, trying to get the manpage to be generated properly by setup.py :)
<Nafallo> anyway, ubuntuIM needs galago :-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: I'm not really arguing the point...just trying to figure out more about why the freeze was done
* Nafallo starts dputting breezy packages to his server ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: mini-dinstall? :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: nope, main only :-)
<bmonty> I got mini-dinstall working on my web server...it is very nice :)
<Nafallo> post_upload_command = ssh ogre "cd public_html/packages && rm *.changes; apt-ftparchive packages . | gzip > Packages.gz && apt-ftparchive sources . | gzip > Sources.gz"
<Nafallo> :-)
<bmonty> Nafallo: you can do the same thing with mini-dinstall
<Nafallo> bmonty: that's not in main :-)
<Nafallo> I ONLY use main on my server :-)
<bmonty> ah
<tseng> you just need to get back to doing universe-security
<tseng> slacker
<ajmitch> yes
<bmonty> I run debian on my servers, so I didn't notice
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<ajmitch> we now unofficially support breezy only for universe security
<LaserJock> I started learning packaging with pbuilder and mini-dinstall. I think it has really helped me learn.
<Nafallo> but but but... MOTU(IM) is more fun ;-)
<ajmitch> unless people still want to do hoary fixes :)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: too bad, get fixing
<bmonty> LaserJock: less opportunity to mess up your system :)
<tseng> yeah
<ajmitch> MOTU work isn't about fun
<ajmitch> it's about getting whipped into doing stuff ;)
<Nafallo> I know. I was just tired about feeling like the only one. and I'm still rather new to programming so... :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: recruit more
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I was wanting to help out, but it wasn't fun enough
* tseng too
<tseng> you need to find some real suckers
* bmonty looks for bddebian.
<ajmitch> bmonty: I was not going to say that ;)
<bmonty> oh darn, he isn't on
<Nafallo> I know it's not fun... that's why I ended up with half-finished stuff all over the place...
<bmonty> I need to get my code for the ubuntu-spy working
<bmonty> and packaged
<ajmitch> 6 months is a lot shorter than you think :)
<ajmitch> so get it done ASAP
<ajmitch> putting it off won't work
<ajmitch> well the feature demands are rolling in on the forum for dapper
<Nafallo> anyway, if everyone does there share on universe security, then it will be easier to do stuff there.
<ajmitch> yep
<bmonty> Nafallo: how does universe security work?
<ajmitch> bmonty: you fix stuff
<bmonty> based on what?
<ajmitch> pretty much the same as MOTU work really
<ajmitch> basically grabbing patches
<Nafallo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<ajmitch> and applying them to the current source :)
<Nafallo> basically like that
<bmonty> I think I can do that :)
<Nafallo> patch the stuff minimally to let it not be insecure, send it do the mailing-list, get pitti to like it (hard ;-)) and then do the upload/have someone do the upload :-).
<ajmitch> security-review list has been very quiet lately
<Nafallo> well, there have been LOTS of stuff todo in breezy
<Nafallo> so I'm not surprised...
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> bbiab
<bmonty> Nafallo: count me in
<Nafallo> bmonty: :-)
<Nafallo> I'm hoping to count everyone in :-)
<bmonty> are you going to post vulnerabilities that require a fix, and then assign people to work the package, or do people just work on things they find?
<Nafallo> security is just like regular release-cycle. you can't be an expert on everything :-).
<Nafallo> we have a tool for that :-)
<Nafallo> I just have to find it... :-P
<Nafallo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/
<bmonty> hmm...lots for mozilla
<Nafallo> if upstream (!debian) made a hoary-package-1, which I'm merging, should I use 1ubuntu1 or 0ubuntu1?
<bmonty> 1ubuntu0.1?
<bmonty> I think that is what the wiki page says
<Nafallo> it's not security :-)
<bmonty> oh, my bad
<Nafallo> it's dapper :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: it has to be greater than any existing package, but they should be beaten for versioning it like that
<Nafallo> ajmitch: oki, thanx
<ajmitch> Nafallo: is it in debian yet, and if not, why not? :)
<ajmitch> since the simple way might be to get it into sid quickly
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I don't know :-). Christian Hammond packaged it for hoary.
<Nafallo> it's not in any dist, I found it on the homepage...
<Nafallo> packaged as native :-P
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> what is it?
<Nafallo> http://www.galago-project.org/
<ajmitch> what package, I mean
* ajmitch thinks he probably has that installed at the moment, too
<ajmitch> some packages are in debian
<Nafallo> all of them :-P
<ajmitch>  libgalago  (0.3.3-1) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch>    * Packaged for Debian, based on upstream work. (closes: #330023 )
<ajmitch>  -- Riccardo Setti <giskard@autistici.org>  Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:51:22 +0200
<Nafallo> yea, I merged that lib from debian :-)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> so that's hardly 'all of them' then
<Nafallo> well, I'm taking what's not in debian from upstream's repo ;-)
<Nafallo> (found under download)
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> which is what I was asking about - what's not in debian? :P
<Nafallo> gnome-preferences-applet, eds-feed for instance
<Nafallo> missing the gtk libs to.
<Nafallo> galago-sharp and libgalago IS in debian :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: you could work with the libgalago debian maintainer to get them in
<Nafallo> ajmitch: yea, I'll just build them first :-)
<Nafallo> hmm, maybe he's doing that to...
<Nafallo> I'll mail him tomorrow after a good nights sleep ;-)
<Nafallo> it's 4:32 here :-)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> sleep well :)
<Nafallo> ouch! eds-feed hates me :-P
* ajmitch fetches some slomo_ packages for debian reviewing
<ajmitch> slomo_: will try & check these in the weekend, for general packaging, and then test them next week..
<Nafallo> hmm, gcc-errors here we come! :-)
<bmonty> night all
<LaserJock> gnight bmonty
<Kyral> My Goal for the Dapper Release Cycle: Gain my "MOTU License" ;P
<Kyral> but not tonight
<Amaranth> My Goal for the Dapper Release Cycle: smeg-gnome, smeg-kde
<Amaranth> but not for a month or so ;)
<Kyral> well my ultimate Goal for Dapper is to become an Ubuntu Member
<Diablo-D3> My Goal for the Dapper Release Cycle: being the cynical bastard I usually am
<Kyral> becoming a MOTU is just a step on the path :D
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> the damn package actually build-deps cvs
<Kyral> Anywya, Family Guy calls
<bddebian> Damn, everyone wore out from Breezy?? :-)
<Diablo-D3> bddebian: yeah, its like some sort of climax
<LaserJock> well, I am still trying to fix my bug >;-(
<bddebian> Your bug?
<LaserJock> # 3112
<Nafallo> bddebian: I'm still building packages for it ;-
<Nafallo> ;-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: Heh
<bddebian> LaserJock: Oh the one you submitted? :-)
<LaserJock> yeah, you know to get my 0 karma back ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> apparently I suck at bugfixing >:-(
<bddebian> Heh, me too and look at my karma ;-P
* ajmitch holds that record
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello sir
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: so you've got universe in shape for dapper release?
<bddebian> Should be done by tomorrow ;-P
<ajmitch> great
<LaserJock> what, man you are slacking ;-P
<ajmitch> man the MOTU are going to have an easy time of it in dapper
<Amaranth> this round of MoM is going to suck
<ajmitch> Amaranth: aye
<ajmitch> Amaranth: it's going to be fun though
<ajmitch> we should have it done in a couple of weeks :)
<ajmitch> and then the constant re-merging until UVF
<Yagisan> so - that means I should start launching all my security stuff at revu then ajmitch ?
<Diablo-D3> Ugh, I'm having an argument with someone
<Diablo-D3> does ubuntu's default kernel have pre-empt and low latency?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: such as?
<Yagisan> Diablo-D3: No
<Diablo-D3> Suck.
<Diablo-D3> And I loose the argument.
<Yagisan> ajmitch - sec tools, modified kernels
<ajmitch> Yagisan: sure, might as well start
<ajmitch> best to get as much time in the archive as we can get
<ajmitch> more exposure == more testing
<Yagisan> ajmitch: sure - I asked in #u-k yesterday - they will go with .14 so I base the kernel stuff off that when it's out
<ajmitch> that's what I'd have expected
<Yagisan> ajmitch: so it should be "easier" to keep in sync (I just steal their patches)
<Yagisan> ajmitch - pax has experimental patches for .14 which is nice , and with rsbac you can control which flags are applied
<Yagisan> to different apps - without things like chpax
<ajmitch> how close is .14?
<ajmitch> hm, rc4
<ajmitch> looks like it'll be there soon
<Nafallo> and ehm, will it build with gcc-4? :-)
<Yagisan> ajmitch - who knows - It'll be done when it's done
<ajmitch> Nafallo: no idea
<ajmitch> anyway, I've got to head away for the weekend
<ajmitch> I might be online, if not I'll see you in a couple of days ;)
<Amaranth> i thought 2.6.12 built with gcc4, it just sucked
<Yagisan> ajmitch: lucky you - I have to do boring admin work this weekend
<Yagisan> Amaranth: last time I checked - not everything in the kernel would build on gcc4
<crimsun> that's why it's built with 3.4, actually
<Nafallo> yea, but I was kind of hoping we didn't need the patch every kernel-module-source :-P
<Nafallo> s/the/to/
<Yagisan> as long as any patches we do apply to mains kernel - they won't get too pissed with different kernels in universe will they ?
<Yagisan> as I recall - they didn't like a .11 kernel in universe
<Amaranth> that wasn't 2.6.11
<Amaranth> it was a bitkeeper snapshot
<Yagisan> Amaranth: a broken bitkeeper snapshot at that
<Amaranth> but it couldn't be removed and people were using it, that's why they didn't like it
<Nafallo> well, wasn't it fabbione that brought it in? :-)
<Yagisan> so, when do we see ubuntu/kfreebsd :) (I see it in universe)
<bddebian> kfreebsd bah.  Hurd baby ;-P
<Nafallo> not before someone will put energy on it atleast...
<crimsun> Yagisan: there should only be one kernel in the repo at all.
<crimsun> the kernel in main is and will remain the one kernel to rule them all.
<Yagisan> crimsun: one size does not fit all
<Nafallo> crimsun: ehm, XEN? :-)
<crimsun> Nafallo: we have separate Xen linux-images in main in Breezy?
<Nafallo> crimsun: it was not done for breezy, so no :-)
<crimsun> well then.
<Nafallo> or rather, that bounty was deferred.
<Nafallo> not completed in time.
<Nafallo> should be completed for dapper I think though...
<crimsun> Xen's more of a hypervisor than a kernel.
<Yagisan> I'd say xen is more of it's own OS, then can run linux
<Yagisan> s/then/that
<Nafallo> ehm, still need special kernels, right?
<Yagisan> yes it does - it needs to be the Dom) kernel
<Yagisan> Dom0
<Yagisan> and you need to build the guest kernels as DomU
<crimsun> Nafallo: fabbione has that code merged into the source. Whether it's in Breezy is another story.
<crimsun> you can grep ubuntu-kernel logs for his remarks getting Xen working with linux-source
<crimsun> a couple months ago?
<crimsun> (and yes, that bounty is quite sweet)
<Nafallo> well, the bounty owner seems to have made stuff a diffrent way then...
<Nafallo> http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-users/2005-08/msg00765.html
<LaserJock> doh, I just found my bug wasn't really a bug. Dang it. How do you close a bug on launchpad?
<crimsun> Nafallo: yes, I know about that.
<crimsun> it will still be ridiculous to have more than one linux-image
<crimsun> not sure how you would do anything with Xen if you didn't have a linux-image anyhow
<Nafallo> anyway
<Yagisan> crimsun: why is it ridiculous to have more then one linux-image ?
<Nafallo> local time is 05:48. time to hit bed :-P
<Nafallo> gnight all
<Yagisan> Goodnight Nafallo
<crimsun> Yagisan: ok, correction. More than one linux-source.
<LaserJock> who can close a bug on launchpad?
<Yagisan> crimsun: I think that for some cases - it is needed
<crimsun> Yagisan: um...why?
<crimsun> Yagisan: there're already kernel-patch-foo...
<Yagisan> crimsun: well for starters - my servers would need a linux-source-(a_security_technology_here)
<crimsun> keep in mind the kernel team would have to support all these different incarnations of linux-source-foo :(
<Yagisan> crimsun
<Yagisan> not for universe
<Yagisan> crimsun: eg I know ajmitch is doing some selinux stuff, I'm looking at pax+rsbac
<crimsun> Yagisan: why wouldn't {kernel,linux}-a_security_technology_here-patch package be more appropriate?
<Yagisan> crimsun: show me how to integrate that into the automated build system - and I'll give it a try
<crimsun> do you intend to install using the base linux-image-386, enable universe, install linux-image-a_security_technology_here-$arch, and reboot?
<Yagisan> crimsun: for now yes
<crimsun> "for now"?
<Yagisan> crimsun but for dapper +1 no
<crimsun> oh dear
<crimsun> so you _do_ want the kernel team to support it in dapper+1?
<Yagisan> crimsun: no - I want the install cd to download it on install - if I selected it
<crimsun> that still makes less sense than integrating the patch into the base linux-source
<crimsun> I'm more than happy to help
<Yagisan> crimsun: I think we may be misunderstanding each other a bit
<Yagisan> crimsun:(13:28:18) Yagisan: ajmitch: sure - I asked in #u-k yesterday - they will go with .14 so I base the kernel stuff off that when it's out
<crimsun> right.
<crimsun> I certainly hope the goal is to integrate it into linux-source.
<crimsun> Of course that's up for discussion at UBZ.
* crimsun heads home
<bddebian> Later crimsun
<Yagisan> crimsun: I you can show me how to integrate kernel-patch-foo into the build for kernel-source I'd be happy
<Yagisan> to test it that way
<Yagisan> See you crimsun
<Kyral> Good night
<LaserJock> bddebian: I found out that the bug I just filed today is not really a bug after all, what do I do with it? I feel really retarded :$
<bddebian> Reject it?
<LaserJock> how ?
<bddebian> Did you file it on bugzilla or Malone?
<LaserJock> Malone
<LaserJock>  Bug #3112
<bddebian> Click on the name of the package and change the status to Rejected
<LaserJock> dohh, thanks
<bddebian> NP
<LaserJock> is it possible to edit comments on Malone?
<bddebian> I think only if you made them but I don't know for sure
<LaserJock> I can't even seem to do that
<LaserJock> Launchpad seems nice, but I am struggling a little bit. I need some documentation or something. I think I must be pretty dense
<LaserJock> I was just getting used to wiki's ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<bddebian> Well gnight folks
<tritium> good night, bddebian
<LaserJock> dang, that was fast
<crimsun> Yagisan: sure, let's go over that later. Have to catch up with a lot of stuff atm.
<tritium> hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi tritium
<\sh> good morning castle greyskull
<pef> hello !
<kYotiK> hi all
<crimsun> the topic should get you started, kYotiK.
<kYotiK> thanks crimsun
<crimsun> np
<dholbach> hellas
<\sh> moins :)
<dholbach> hi stephan
<siretart> morning
<\sh> hey siretart
<dholbach> morning reinhard
<dholbach> how are you?
<dholbach> when is your exam again?
<dholbach> was it already?
<siretart> it was yesterday. finally finished that stuff! :)
<dholbach> how was it?
<siretart> I would say okay: 1.7 :)
<dholbach> ROCK ON!
<dholbach> i knew you'd make it :)
<siretart> thanks :)
<siretart> how are things in MOTU Land?
<dholbach> currently quite quiet :)
<siretart> ah, time to work on revu, then *g*
<dholbach> yeah, or triage bugs :)
<crimsun> I'm starting the multiverse security hunt
<crimsun> mplayer's first on the list ;/
<dholbach> poor daniel
* dredg kills the person who decided to split the megaraid2 module should become megaraid_mm.ko and megaraid_mbox.ko
<crimsun> oh no, it'll be better than vlc! :-)
<dredg> um
<dredg> that sentence no english or thing
* dredg kills the person who decided that the megaraid2 module should become megaraid_mm.ko and megaraid_mbox.ko
<slomo_> crimsun: what security bug in mplayer? i fixed one a few weeks before release
<dholbach> "... in the face"
<dholbach> hey slomo
<crimsun> slomo_: oh, you nabbed that one already? excellent!
<dredg> yes dammit, IN THE FACE
<dholbach> :)
<slomo_> crimsun: when it's the pcm-one... yes ;)
<slomo_> hi dholbach :)
<dholbach> how are you all?
<slomo_> tired... and i need to be in train for the next 5 hours ;)
<crimsun> I should sleep, but I need to queue a TODO
<dholbach> slomo_: going where?
<dredg> tired. and resolving to spend some time working on ubuntu for the enterprise.
<dholbach> crimsun: how late is it at your place again?
<slomo_> dholbach: mannheim... visiting a friend over the weekend
<crimsun> dholbach: 4:45 AM
<dholbach> ouch
<dholbach> slomo_: i'd love to go to mannheim again
<dholbach> slomo_: you know where that friend of yours lives?
<dredg> actually, extending oem-config to automatically install and configure a system automagically would be good. i'll think about that next week
<siretart> dredg: sounds like d-i preseeding
<slomo_> dholbach: not exactly in mannheim but in bad drkheim... i think this is how it was called ;) but he takes me from the mannheim hbf so i don't need to know anything ;)
<dredg> siretart: yeah, but i'd like options like "switch off automatically adding security.ubuntu.com to sources.list"
<dholbach> i see :)
<siretart> dredg: this is all preseedable..
<dholbach> slomo_: i lived in mannheim for quite a while
<slomo_> ok... need to leave ;) see you again on monday =)
<dredg> i also really need to beat the person in here who wrote some of the scripts
<dholbach> dredg: beat who?
<dholbach> hey koke, hjow are you?
<koke> hi all!
<koke> dholbach: fine, thanks. I think I'll be at UBZ :D
<dredg> dholbach: the guy currently working on creating a supported ubuntu in here is completely unfamiliar with debian/ubuntu
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> ah ok, dredg - i thought you were talking about #ubuntu-motu :)
<dredg> dholbach: while he's done a fantastic job (really, he has), some of the methods used to get things working smell of redhat hackery
<dholbach> haha :)
<koke> the company I work for wants to establish some relations with canonical, so they'll pay my flight :)
<dredg> oh sorry, by 'in here' i meant literally 'in these offices'
<dholbach> dredg: yeah :)
<dholbach> koke: wow cool - what company is it?
<dredg> my bad, no offence intended towards anyone in -motu
<koke> warp networks http://warp.es/en
<dholbach> dredg: don't worry, we're no sissies
<dredg> yeah, some of our guys will be at UBZ
<dredg> i'll be on training for the next month so i can't make it
<dholbach> koke: WAY cool
<dredg> i should make the dapper+1 conference though.
<dredg> hmm
<dredg> might try to convince my boss to send me to ubz
<dredg> doubt it will happen though
<\sh> redhat hackery?
<dholbach> dredg: yeah, talk to him
<dredg> dholbach: unlikely. they're already sending me to california for a month for training.
<Treenaks> dredg: isn't Montreal _between_ you can California? :)
<dredg> Treenaks: it is now. from sunday it won't be :)
<dredg> \sh: evil shell scripts designed to do something that can be done entirely without them
<dredg> anyway, friday is breakfast-in-the-form-of-assorted-pastries-day
* dredg goes to eat
<\sh> dredg: hmm...this is not only redhat style ;)
<mbreit> good morning
<\sh> moin moin mbreit
<dredg> \sh: agreed, but since the previous supported linux distribution is a very heavily hacked redhat, i tend to blame it for all my problems at the moment :)
<\sh> dredg: believe me, suse is much more worse ,)
<Treenaks> \sh: I believe you
* dredg shudders
<Treenaks> (well, SuSE 10 is better than 9, because it has gnome 2.12)
<dredg> i hate suse. lots.
<dredg> mainly because of the evil evil evil evil way it used to deal with network cards
<dredg> dunno if it still does it
<Treenaks> dredg: I think it still does
<dredg> but wireless cards in particular were handled in an insane manner
<Treenaks> dredg: or at least, it's still evil.. dunno if it's the same evil
<dredg> Treenaks: the verdict is the same. kill it in the face :)
<Treenaks> dredg: then my boss will punch me in the face
<Treenaks> dredg: he makes me do i
<Treenaks> t
<dredg> Treenaks: you need a new boss.... :)
<Treenaks> dredg: working on that
<dredg> Treenaks: google are hiring ;)
<Tonio-> morning everyone
<ssam> am i right in thinkthing that firefox 1.5 and kernel 2.6.13 will be put in the universe? like openoffice2 was in hoary. i am sure i heard this discussed a few months ago. is this now more of a backports type thing?
<Yagisan> ssam: dapper will use a .14 kernel, so no point for .13 in universe
<TMM> Yagisan, might even be a .15 kernel, who knows? :)
<Yagisan> TMM: I asked BenC yesterday and was told .14, but yeah or if they are quick a .16 :)
<TMM> these days you never know :)
<TMM> is dapper open?
<ogra> i doubt there will be any kernel image in universe in any future release... the 2.6.11 snapshot in hoary caused to much confusion
<ogra> TMM, tuesday
<Yagisan> TMM: I see that BenC has already started on .14, dapper opens tuesday
<Yagisan> ogra: some of use security types are going to try for some kernels in universe
<dholbach> Yagisan: who?
<Yagisan> dholbach: I want something in there - but based of mains kernel + patches
<dholbach> hrm
<\sh> Yagisan: no ways...I do not want to be responsible for any kernel related stuff
<ogra> Yagisan, but that will be usable images i guess... the 2.6.11 snapshot was a very early bitkeeper snaphot that broke many systems because people didnt get that it wanst intended for usage
<Yagisan> dholbach: if it fails to make the grade - then so be it, but I have a need for it, and it is avaiable for whoever else needs it
<\sh> even if the universe is "unsupported" the people are judging ubuntu/kubuntu for the quality, and if something goes wrong with a kernel...no
<spacey_ki> i would like to whine about broken scim packages in breezy, quite nasty to have no chinese input support in breezy
<spacey_ki> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/scim/+bug/2565
<spacey_ki> bug filed long ago
<Yagisan> \sh: that's because the universe package was too far removed from mains
<ogra> Yagisan, i know there are other kernel related prjects that also want their images in universe... low latency audio stuff for example
<spacey_ki> who should i whine to about this?
<ogra> spacey_ki, just whine to the world ...
<spacey_ki> ogra, :P
<ogra> spacey_ki, the archives are locked currently...
<\sh> Yagisan: no...not a single kernel should be in universe...never...module yes, fitting for the latest main kernel, ok, but not a kernel itself with patches which we can't test
<ogra> \sh, wont work...
<spacey_ki> ogra, currently means for a little while?
<\sh> ogra: put it on the list for motu meeting and ubz ;)
<dholbach> spacey_ki: if you have a patch to make it work, we might consider it for a breezy-updates uploade
<Yagisan> \sh: that makes proactive security work moot then
<spacey_ki> dholbach, ok, that will be in november then
<\sh> dholbach: are we able to use breezy-updates?
<spacey_ki> maybe you should switch the bug to WON'T FIX or something :P
<dholbach> \sh: with approval, yes
<ogra> we'll have universe kernels ... hardened needs to patch directly, low latency needs to be in the tree, not as a module etc
<ogra> \sh, i dont want to play with kernel stuff...
<ogra> but there is a need for universe kernels...
<ogra> spacey_ki, the regular archives repoen on tuesday for dapper
<ogra> *reopen
<Yagisan> \sh: I won't submit any kernel to universe that is not mains kernel + proactive security patches
<spacey_ki> i think we need a breezy-updates ;p
<Yagisan> \sh: I don't want to see broken kernels in breezy either
<Yagisan> s/breezy/dapper
<\sh> Yagisan: what means "proactive security patches"...if there is a need for more security, it should go into main line...
<Yagisan> \sh: main line won't take competing patches
<\sh> we ca provide packages for other stuff, which uses linux-kernel source and patch methods for the kernel in main line...so the user who needs the stuff can build the kernel themselfs.
<Yagisan> \sh: that is no change from now - it makes it a pain in the arse for users
<Yagisan> \sh: and makes that proactive security bof at UDU a waste of time (from my point of view)
<Yagisan> \sh: can we integrate linux-patch-foo packages into the linux-sources build systems ?
<\sh> Yagisan: think about this: how many users (normal ubuntu users) are in need of a different kernel? and how many users are needing hardened server kernels, when running a laptop or a plain desktop? the ammount of users who are using specialized kernels are less and those users are called "admins"..and those admins are working for "DCs" and they know what they're doing...I don't think we should focus on strange kernel configs in universe.
<dholbach> i think this shoud be discussed in #ubuntu-kernel
<\sh> Yagisan: possible ... we have to see and learn ;)
<Yagisan> \sh: how many needless kernel security updates did we need - that could have been avoided with such a patch
<dholbach> there might be a need for that, but it has implication which shouldnt just be discussed over here
<Yagisan> dholbach: I wanted to discuss this here, to gauge interest/support for initial work
<Yagisan> dholbach: so I could make a case to main for dapper + 1 secure by default installs
<dholbach> Yagisan: a wiki page and an announcement of the proposal would be better, i guess
<Yagisan> dholbach: I'm just following the requests made of me at UDU. Couldn't do it for breezy.
<\sh> dholbach: I'll put this as point on motumeeting page...I would like to see benc or fabbione with us in this discussion
<dholbach> *nod*
<dholbach> \sh: and elmo and the buildd admins for another bunch of kernel packages :)
<\sh> dholbach: I think one of the kernel guys should be enough.the rest is only formal ;)
<ogra> \sh, dholbach they already gave their statements on the -devel ML when the audio discussio was up...
<dholbach> hm
<ogra> even mdz did
<\sh> ogra: subject was?
<Yagisan> If it is technically possible to have linux-source-x.y.z pull in kernel-patch-foo and build -foo kernels, I'll just make a kernel-patch-foo package
<Yagisan> that keeps kernels out of universe
<\sh> Yagisan: the other way around sounds a bit better...+
<\sh> kernel-patch-foo pulls in linux-source  ;)
<Yagisan> \sh: as long as it builds kernels for the users that can be installed as aptitude install kernel-foo I'm happy
<Yagisan> \sh: I use them, and my customers would use them
<\sh> Yagisan: well...then we should think about it in this way: OEM installs require OEM repositories...e.g.
<\sh> anyone is reading jdubs release management ideas?
<Yagisan> \sh: link please
<\sh> Yagisan: Message-ID: <20051014121811.GD15913@localhost.localdomain> <- I'm reading per mail client :(
<dholbach> it might be prudent to form a libofx taskforce now? :)
<\sh> dholbach: what now? phew..I'm just glad, that ajmitch touched it the last time ;)
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> another bug
<\sh> oh no
<ogra> rather fix the root of the problem.... rewrite gnucash for gnome2.X
<dholbach> TrashGnome1BOF
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> ogra: the correct fix of this bug: "Use Pen & Paper" ,-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> there is a long discussion on debian-gtk-gnome about throwing out gnome1 .... but gnucash still keep the crap in :)
<dholbach> how are the python/zope teams inlaunchpad called?
<\sh> WEEKEND TIME !
<\sh> ogra: heading home now...and rushing for trains
<\sh> ogra: will give u a call when I'm there...including keyboard and stuff like this
<ogra> whoops...
* ogra grabs the vaccum cleaner
<\sh> ogra: forget about this...
<ogra> \sh, :)
<\sh> later guys
<Yagisan> Bye \sh
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dereks__> hiya!
<mbreit> hey bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<bddebian> Hello dereks__
<\sh> ogra: 18:07 as train schedule says...
<\sh> there is no ice to your place sadley
<ogra> heh, nope, they dont stop at this tiny trainstation :)
<\sh> ogra: *g* ok..give u a call when i'm there or just on station before...
<bddebian> I see Herve e-mailed the ML, where has he been?
<chillywilly> is there a way to be notified via email that there are new packages (kinda like how on the desktop the applet lets you know)...I think it would be a nice feature for sysadmin running a server where there's no X
<siretart> chillywilly: use aptitude, there is a section with NEW packages
<chillywilly> umm, that's not helpful though :)
<chillywilly> I want to be notified, I can always periodically check for new packages or security updates
<chillywilly> I think I'll just subscribe the the security announce list
<azeem> chillywilly: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/breezy-changes ?
<dholbach> dredg: could you check ubuntu bug 12230 and see if it's fixed for you?
<mpt> yo
<dholbach> zyga: did you and the other ruby folks think about opening a ruby project on launchpad?
<dholbach> zyga: a "team" rather?
<zyga> dholbach: no, I didn't knew we could
<zyga> who can register a project?
<dholbach> zyga: you can
<dholbach> zyga: register a team (on your personal page)
<dholbach> people/zyga or something
<zyga> checking
<zyga> hmm
<dholbach> hmm?
<zyga> so how do I start the team exactly?
<dholbach> doesnt work?
<dholbach> ok let me take a look myself
<zyga> no no
<zyga> I just don't see anything that resembles 'start a team'
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> launchpad.net/people -> "create new team" on the right hand side
<zyga> got it
<dholbach> ROCK
<zyga> so a team named Ruby is fine :)
<dholbach> just call it something short
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> i'll assign you all the bugs ;-p
<zyga> okay :-)
<dholbach> and be sure to tell the other ruby folks
<dholbach> wasnt that lathiat and lucas?
<zyga> I'll put this on the wiki and notify them
<zyga> now we have more :)
<dholbach> WOW
<dholbach> you guys really make it happen :)
<zyga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
<tseng> oh
<tseng> please fix ruby-snmp first :)
<zyga> how long should subscriptions last?
<zyga> I'm opting for 360 days
<dholbach> i said "always" in the gnome team
<tseng> until people unsubscribe?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> or i chuck them out :-po
* zyga hopes the description can be changed later
<zyga> should I put my email address as the contact address?
<zyga> hmm there already is a ruby team
<zyga> dholbach: ping
<zyga> dholbach: check this outh: https://launchpad.net/people/ruby
<zyga> dholbach: if you can suggest any sane resolution of this namespace collision I'm all ears
<chillywilly> I had written an init script for Unreal IRCd and right now I run the ircd as root, what's the typical way to run a daemon as a different user?
<chillywilly>  -u|--user ?
<chillywilly> option to start-stop-daemon that is
<chillywilly> hmmm, I should package it
<chillywilly> :)
<dholbach> Lathiat: zyga had a problem with https://launchpad.net/people/ruby - you could go for a "moturuby" team - that's what the media team did too
<dholbach> zenrox: if you're interested, you'll get there soon... really
<zenrox> tho i have fixed skype 1.0.17 for ubuntu
<dholbach> it's all a matter of interest
<dholbach> there will be quite a lot of easy tasks, where you can train up, if you'd like to
<zenrox> defentaly train up
<zenrox> hehehe
<dholbach> ROCK
* bddebian does all the easy tasks ;-)
<sivang> bddebian: nahh
<dholbach> if dapper opens up, we'll have all hands full of work, and i'd like to have you working with us
<sivang> stop being modest :)
<zenrox> i have made some packages like java, remade skype(from ther offical repos)
<zenrox> so i have some skills
<zenrox> and a fast inet
<zenrox> too
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> :)
<zenrox> 3.3m/864k
<zenrox> thats a must
<zenrox> lol
<dholbach> it's not everything :)
<zenrox> but it helps
<chillywilly> no one can answer me?
<chillywilly> bddebian: how can I use start-stop-daemon to run a daemon as someone other than root?
<dholbach> chillywilly: did you look at any other init script?
* jamessan|work thought chillywilly had answered himself
<dholbach> chillywilly: loads of them run as differnt users
<chillywilly> nah, I was off doing a million other things
<zenrox> ya see how others are layed out and coppy the exampole
<dholbach> Tonio-! KDE chief! :)
<dholbach> how are you?
<Tonio-> fine and you ?
<dholbach> i'm fine too thanks :)
<dholbach> still doing bits of bug triage, before i'm off to a party
<Tonio-> ;)
<Tonio-> I have to take the train to go and see my girlfriend ;)
<dholbach> chillywilly: --user
<chillywilly> ok then
<chillywilly> that what I asked before and no one said anything either :)
<dholbach> dbus and uptimed use it
<dholbach> (on my box)
<zenrox> postfix troo
<zenrox> too
<chillywilly> what about --chuid?
<chillywilly> that's what postgrest does it seems
<chillywilly> postgres
<chillywilly> klogd too
<bddebian> chillywilly: You are asking ME? :-)
<chillywilly> seems like some daemons drop priveleges themselves so all you need is to add that user to the system
<chillywilly> bddebian: I was :)
<dholbach> Mitario: !
<Mitario> yeah!
<dholbach> how are you?
<dholbach> :)
<Mitario> hi ;)
<Mitario> yeah great, very busy, but great :)
<Mitario> so you guys pulled it off right? :)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> we've ben quite busy, yes ;)
<zyga> re
<zyga> darn cable modem dies all the time
<zyga> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> pong
<dholbach> you could use moturuby
<zyga> dholbach: okay
<dholbach> that's what the media team used too
<dholbach> it's motumedia
<dholbach> super
<zyga> done
<zyga> moturuby
<dholbach> super :)
<zyga> I'll add all the people from MOTURuby to MOTURuby :)
<dholbach> :)
<LaserJock> anybody know why xfontsel would give "Unable to load any usable fontset" ?
<zyga> LaserJock: when in doubt, grep the source
<zyga> it's usually near an if (...) :-)
<zyga> MotuRuby done
* dredg flees
* zyga needs to learn ruby...
<zyga> dholbach: does the team have any moturuby@launchpad.net or whatever global mailing list?
<dholbach> unforunately not
<dholbach> if you don't change it to a mailing list all of the member will get a mail
<zyga> dholbach: okay, I guess everyone already got an email after being joined into the team
<zyga> great
<dholbach> and another two for the bugs i assigned :-p
<zyga> oh, bug reports already :)
<zyga> thanks
<dholbach> that was just for testing
<dholbach> one of them was already closed
<dholbach> so you already have a fixed bug under your belt :)
<siretart> we could install a mailman on tiber
<siretart> and create some motu mailing lists
<zyga> siretart: as soon as the need arises I'll ask you about it :)
<Kyral> I <3 FreeNX :D
<siretart> but I don't know if thatwould be desired or even counterproductive
<zyga> I'll see how the team works together in the next couple of weeks
<dholbach> we'll see how it works out
<dholbach> yeah
<siretart> We'll definitly need a maillinglist for revu2, for accept maillinglist control and buildlogs
<zyga> dholbach: is there any way to assign bugs to MotuRuby instead of to me directly?
<Kyral> Holy bugs batman
* Kyral jumps on them
<Kyral> Time to have fun :D
<dholbach> zyga: just type "moturuby" in the text box
<zyga> https://launchpad.net/people/moturuby/+assignedbugs
<zyga> okay
<LaserJock> zyga: unfourtunately grep didn't help, any other suggestions?
<zyga> LaserJock: you didn't find the place that message is printed?
<LaserJock> no
<zyga> LaserJock: that's strage
* zyga looks
<LaserJock> well, I think it is a genergic X thing not specific to the apps. I have at least 2 programs that give this error
<Kyral> I'm going after 3129
* zyga whines about unindented C code
<zyga> did someone write that in notepad or what
<LaserJock> if you start xfontsel do you get the same error?
<Kyral> Can someone assign 3129 to me? I think I can fix it easy
<zyga> Warning: Missing charsets in String to FontSet conversion
<zyga> Warning: Unable to load any usable fontset
<LaserJock> yep, that's it
<zyga> is xfontsel used by ANYTHING?
<zyga> xbase-clients
<LaserJock> well, the real thing I am going after is Xfig
* zyga removes all the ruby packages from his system to start with a clean state
<zyga> dholbach: is it possible to alter control file in breezy (after release) to fix this bug/
<dholbach> control file after release?
<dholbach> to what?
<zyga> dholbach: basically to fix dependencies
<dholbach> you could upload to breezy-updates
<zyga> okay
<Kyral> How do we do that?
<zyga> I'm not finished reading this yet but I'd like to know my options
<dholbach> get approval for it first
<dholbach> we can't upload a million of stuff to breezy-updates
<Kyral> Yah
<dholbach> you basically have one shot to do it right
<Kyral> So I fix something then show it to you? :P
<dholbach> and very severe issues only
<zyga> I understand
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vm/+bug/3129 <---This one is confirmed, and I'm gonna try to fix it
<zyga> too bad we don't have delta updates yet
<dholbach> i'll have to talk to matt/... - dunno how we handle those cases
<dholbach> we should fix it first thing in dapper
<dholbach> and then look how to do it in breezy
<zyga> right
<Kyral> hey in the rules file for the vm package, could I just have a POSTINST file that tells it to make install?
<LaserJock> brb, gotta test something
<dholbach> Kyral: no
<Kyral> hmm then...
<dholbach> Kyral: you need to make install on the build system
<dholbach> the stuff that is installed in thed 'install' target is in the package
<Kyral> err wait
<Kyral> make :P Not make install :P
<dholbach> 'make install' on the side where the package is actually installed (where postinst runs) wouldnt help
<dholbach> the same
<Kyral> hmm, well somehow it has to get run...
<dholbach> you have to heavily distinguish between build system and installation system
<Kyral> rules maybe...
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> exactly
<Kyral> okay!
<Kyral> I'm on it. Fix a typo and change rules :D
<dholbach> but that should happen more or less automatically
<Kyral> It isn't thats the problem
<dholbach> (depending on the build system of the software)
<Kyral> See the bug ;P
<dholbach> ok looking
<dholbach> ok i see
<Kyral> I've confirmed both counts
<Kyral> Can I go for it? :D
<LaserJock> ok, found my problem. If I have my locale set to en_US ISO-8859-1 then the error messages go away
<dholbach> counts?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Kyral> the typo in README.Debian
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> super
<Kyral> and the whole having to do "sudo make"
<dholbach> did you write "sudo make" in debian/rules?
<Kyral> not yet
<dholbach> "sudo" is wrong
<dholbach> unfortunately
<Kyral> I know ;P
<dholbach> ok :)
<Kyral> I'm pbuildering the original package right now to do a control test ;P
<dholbach> ouch
<dholbach> the packaging is ... intersting
<dholbach> VERY :)
<Kyral> vm?
<dholbach> yeah
<Kyral> howso?
<dholbach> 792K in debian/
<dholbach> and only 148k in examples
<Kyral> eh?
<dholbach> i'd drop most of it :)
<Kyral> Its a mode for Emacs I think
<dholbach> apt-get source vm; du -sh vm*/debian/
<Kyral> can't right now, apt is locked
<Kyral> pbuilder ;P
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> and you have the source in front of you :)
<Kyral> anyway why is that odd?
<Kyral> good point...
<dholbach> the stuff in debian/common is crack
<Kyral> uhh?
<dholbach> it contains common scripts to make writing debian/rules easier
<Kyral> CDBS?
<dholbach> i suppose it's an ancient packaging
<LaserJock> does anybody know how to fix my locale problem? Or at least where to look? apparently UTF-8 is the problem
<dholbach> today, exactly, you use CDBS
<bddebian> Gotta move, bbiab
<dholbach> LaserJock: sorry, what causes you grief?
<Kyral> So should I just fix it or completely rewrite it?
<dholbach> Kyral: that's not necessary, only if you intended to maintain it
<Kyral> heck no
<dholbach> if we fix stuff, we try to keep the diff small
<Kyral> I'm just gonna fix the thing :P
<dholbach> readable, but small
<Kyral> so can I assign it to me in Launchpad?
<LaserJock> some apps give error about "Unable to load any usable fontset" unless ISO-8859-1 is used instead of UTF-8
<Kyral> the bug that is
<dholbach> Kyral: if you finished and it works for you, you could attach the debdiff to it
<dholbach> Kyral: so we all 'd get the mail announcing it and have a look and upload it
<Kyral> I havent even started, pbuilder is slow due to the mirror being ravaged
<dholbach> yeah
<Kyral> I'll confirm it at least
<dholbach> it's nice to have you cracking on it
<Kyral> eh?
<dholbach> be sure to ping me or somebody else to proofread the diff
<Kyral> okay
<dholbach> ROCK :)
<dholbach> and once dapper is open, we fix it for good
<Kyral> Comment added
<Kyral> should I changed the status to accepted?
<dholbach> yeah
<Kyral> and assigned to..?
<dholbach> leave it to motu
<Kyral> right
<dholbach> so we all get the mail when you have the patch in place
<dholbach> and can act on that
<Kyral> yup yup
<Kyral> MOTU List is Ubuntu-Devel right?
<Kyral> or is there a separate mailing list..
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> but for bugs we have a different one
<dholbach> universe-bugs@
<Kyral> kk, remind me to subscribe to that one
<Kyral> Oh how would I attached a debdiff to it?
<dholbach> there's a "add file" somewhere
<dholbach> on the bug's page
<Kyral> k. and I assume in the changelog I just increment the number after ubuntu?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> you can use   dch -i -Ddapper  for that
<Kyral> k
<dholbach> Kyral: please subscribe to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com - you can do so on http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/universe-bugs - this is necessary to have you better informed about bugs in universe, which will help to have universe cleaner, which will make ubuntu nicer and will bring us closer to world domination. i hope you can see the point. thanks for your involvement.
<Kyral> and just attach the diff file that dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot makes?
<dholbach> debuild -S  is shorter
<dholbach> (which will build the source package)
<Kyral> okay
<dholbach> debdiff bla1.dsc bla2.dsc will give you the debdiff
<Kyral> cool
<LaserJock> dholbach: some apps give error about "Unable to load any usable fontset" unless ISO-8859-1 is used instead of UTF-8
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> did you instlal the language-packs for you?
<dholbach> and maybe   dpkg-reconfigure locales
<zyga> geez
<LaserJock> I did dpkg-reconfigure locales. If I set the default to ISO-8859-1 it is all good, but if I set the default to UTF-8 it gives warnings
<zyga> did we get rid of the ./ crowd already?
<zyga> I'm fetching de locale and it's pretty slow
<Kyral> appending make to rules should fix this...
<dholbach> ok, guys, i'm off
<dholbach> need to go to a party:)
<Kyral> cya
<LaserJock> cya
<dholbach> have a good time!
<zyga> bye
<LaserJock> heha \sh
<\sh> joho LaserJock
<LaserJock> i've got a problem with locales
<\sh> and I have my free time :)
<LaserJock> some programs give warnings like "Unable to load any usable fontset" if locale is set to UTF-8
<\sh> u have the language selector installed? which is installed via ubuntu-desktop...
<\sh> and now I'll give my laptop to suse, ogra's better half
<LaserJock> \sh: yes language selector is installed
<LaserJock> when I do dpkg-reconfigure locales and set the default to ISO-8859-1 the warning go away
<LaserJock> try starting xfontsel and see if it gives you these warnings
<Mez> w00hoo
<Mez> my own computer
<Mez> *pets it*
<zyga> Mez: good for you
<zyga> Mez: anything less common than i386
<Kyral> Waiiiit.
<Mez> Linux apathy 2.6.12-8-k7 #1 Thu Sep 15 22:09:23 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
<Kyral> You don't need to compile el files....do you...
<Mez> i686?
<Mez> should be k7
<LaserJock> Mez, same thing here "Linux lambda 2.6.12-9-k7 #1 Mon Oct 10 13:47:52 BST 2005 i686 GNU/Linux"
<LaserJock> what the heck is BST?
<Kyral> Okay, 3129 just got easier
<saintsjd> I am working with the debianGIS group.  We have just updated the gdal package to from 1.2.6 to 1.3.1.  Its the first of many packages that we would like to sync it to ubuntu. What are the steps I should take to get started?
<plugwash> BST is british summer time
<Mez> saintsjd, it should be auto-synced across for dapper
<saintsjd> Great for drapper. is there a way that we could update the breezy packages also? perhaps via new upstream release? or is it too late?
<Mez> saintsjd, once it goes into dapper, as long as it builds for breezy, I can auth it for backports
<Mez> but thats about the only place you'll get it in now if it isnt already in the archives
<saintsjd> Mez, ok. That makes sense.  I should just focus then on getting things into debian unstable.  When will packages be synced for drapper?
<saintsjd> Mez, Its builds on breezy. I am running it now.
<ivoks> backports?
<ivoks> why in backports?
<Mez> saintsjd, I'm not too sure about dapper stuff, as elmo or keybuk... but it should stat syncing everything across soon
<ivoks> backported from where?
<Mez> ivoks from dapper to breezy
<ivoks> Mez: once it gets in dapper, yes
<ivoks> but not before that...
<Mez> <Mez> saintsjd, once it goes into dapper, as long as it builds for breezy, I can auth it for backports
<ivoks> Mez: yeah, my mistake, sorry
<Mez> :P
<Kyral> if I'm attaching a debdiff to a bug that fixes it, should I mark it as a Patch?
<saintsjd> Thanks Mez.
<Mez> Kyral, yes
<Kyral> kk. I assume filename doesn't matter?
<Mez> saintsjd, watch packages.ubuntu.com as soon as it gets into breezy, email ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com and let me know and I'll clear it
<Mez> Kyral, It'll probably be renamed anyways
<Mez> what bug is it
<Kyral> 3129 in Launchpad
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vm/+bug/3129
<Kyral> Just a typo...I already fixed it ;P
<Kyral> should I go ahead and attach the debdiff?
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> and I'll fix it in a sec
<Kyral> I already did :P
<Kyral> and attached
<Mez> Kyral, you fxied and uploaded?
<saintsjd> Mez, I will watch the packages site. Thanks... the Ubuntu community is always so responsive.
<Mez> saintsjd, we try :D
<Kyral> Mez I can't upload
<Kyral> I'm just a MOTU-In-Training
<Mez> Kyral, hence why I said I'd fix it
<Mez> aka upload it
<Kyral> oh okay :D
<Kyral> sorry :P
<Kyral> Can I mark it fixed?
<Mez> no
<Mez> I've marked it PendingUpload
<Mez> pluys I dont think you have access to
<Kyral> ah okay
<Kyral> I can change status, but then go into hold until someone reviews them
<Kyral> Oh well, Bug Squished either way :D
<LaserJock> do any of you have xfig installed?
<Kyral> yo Seveas
<Seveas> oi
<Kyral> wait...Mez did you mean upload rights to REVU?
<Mez> no
<Kyral> okay. Too...many...upload...thigns...
<Kyral> *THUD!*
<Kyral> ;P Thanks everyone for putting up with my stupid questions all the time :D
<Mez> ogra: ping
<siretart> Mez: hi dude!
<Mez> siretart: hey
<siretart> Mez: I just read your email on u-backports
<Mez> lol
<Mez> the one I just sent?
<siretart> Mez: I thought the mirrormax mirror is already closed, so I'm a bit confused now
* Mez is not too sure
<Mez> I'm a bit behind
<Kyral> I know jdong is using MirroxMax to host Breezy-Extras-Staging
<siretart> I also think I read that he wanted to maintain some sort of staging directory
<Kyral> I heard that its his equivelent to Debian Marrilat
<Kyral> or something like that
<Mez> I'm trying to contact him now
<siretart> Kyral: he had a directory 'hoary-extras' where he did stuff in like libdvdcss and w32codecs
<siretart> Kyral: but he already removed these, 'for legal reasons'
<Kyral> More bugs to be squished...
<Mez> siretart: no I removed some cause people were bitching (bob2 mainly)
<siretart> Mez: ah.
<Kyral> yo bddebian
<LaserJock> Mez: so is there a place to get the extras or is that just discontinued altogether?
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<Mez> LaserJock - I'm not oo sure
<LaserJock> ok, I was able to figure out my locale problem, I think. If I run "xset fp rehash" the warnings go away in the old X apps
<LaserJock> but how does that relate to fixing the bug?
<sivang> bddebian: so, what works are still left to do to get more changlogs entries?
<bddebian> sivang: Probably not much until Dapper :-)
<bddebian> sivang: Maybe some bugfixing on Malone :-)
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> The BugFixing is ripe today
<sivang> bddebian: ah I see, well, what are the plans for dapper?
<Kyral> minor typos :D
<sivang> Kyral: yo :)
<sivang> Kyral: whassup with you dude?
<Kyral> Squashed my first bug :D
<sivang> bddebian: no more trasitions to be made??
* sivang tells himself that can't be
<bddebian> sivang: There will be a ton of merges once Dapper opens I think
<LaserJock> Kyral: dang it, I've been trying to get my first all day ;-)
<Kyral> just a typo in a readme, but it snagged me a changelog entry :D
<bddebian> What good is that doing if you can't upload?
<Kyral> Mez is gonna upload it for me
<bddebian> Mez can't upload either
<Mez> yes I can
<bddebian> To what?
<Kyral> lol there he is
<Mez> universe
<bddebian> Breezy?
<Mez> yes
<bddebian> It thought it was locked?
<Mez> oh... lol
<Mez> yeah
<Kyral> ...then why couldn't I stick it in REVU?
* Mez is an idiot
<Kyral> oh nm :P
<Mez> Kyral: change it to accepted
<Kyral> This is why dholbach told me to change the Distro on the changelog to Dapper :D
<Kyral> you got it
<Kyral> So when Dapper opens, it will get uploaded?
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> prob at UBZ
<Kyral> Couldn't I have done that :P
<Mez> not if you dont have upload rights
<\sh> Dapper is opened from tuesday on
<sivang> guys, dapper will open from tuesday
<Kyral> I can upload to REVU
<Kyral> or do you mean other upload rights?
<sivang> so no more packages requiring love in universe? I'm alwasy too late :)
<\sh> sivang: wait until tuesday
<sivang> anyway, more time to work on my goals and bofs, produce some demos, and give some DB2 love to ubuntu :)
<Kyral> Oh someone look over my DCBU already. It should be fully polished :P
<sivang> \sh: sure, will allow me to also read some stuff to be prepared.
<sivang> Kyral: that's the package selection thinigy?
<\sh> sivang: hehe.debian-new-maintainer-guide :)
<Kyral> its hte config backup thingy
<Kyral> So basically we fix packages and as soon as Dapper opens we send them all to REVU?
<sivang> \sh: nahh, that's passe - I'm in need for reviewing the policy :)
<\sh> sivang: hehe
<\sh> btw...cheers guys
<Mez> hey \sh
<sivang> \sh: really, I've read the NM guide for a dozen of times, never supplied to full view I was looking,
<\sh> hey Mez
<sivang> \sh: I wish I was fluent with packaging as I am fluent with code :)
<\sh> sivang: as I just said to ogra...we don't know nothing
<\sh> ;)
<Kyral> Mez: If its okay with you I'll upload the package to REVU on Tuesday
<Mez> Kyral: if it's just a patch, there's no need
<Mez> I just use the patch, then upload
<Kyral> okay
<LaserJock> does anybody know where X puts commands that it executes on startup?
<Kyral> Still, its my first fix :D
<Kyral> and first changelog entry :D
<Kyral> and cya guys later :P
<Kyral> Dinner calls
<Mez> LaserJock, X doesnt, the weindow manager does
<LaserJock> Mez: well, doesn't X start things at the beginning, before a window manager?
<Mez> yea, the window manager
<LaserJock> ok, well as I understand it the font's are supposed to be updated every time X is started
<LaserJock> but I am having to execut xset fp rehash every time
<LaserJock> hmm, well this is frustrating but I don't know if there is anything I can do about it
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-20
<LaserJock> ok, so I can fix bug #576 #2066 by exporting LANG=C or using "xset fp rehash". Do you think that this is a problem that we need to fix?
<james> anyone here know anything about the nvidia-legacy pakage?
<james> my name is james, just installed breezy and have a bug with it
<james> just don't know where to report it
<james> lo?
<bddebian> http://launchpad.ubuntu.com   File it on Malone please
<James_Martinez> what is Malone?
<bddebian> Just the name of the Bug-Tracker
<James_Martinez> oh ok
<James_Martinez> thanks
<bddebian> NP
<James_Martinez> maybe it isn't a bug, its just I updated from hoary to breezy, and the nvidia module wouldn't load, saying "device not found"
<James_Martinez> I might have pu the wrong driver in my xorg.conf
<James_Martinez> *put
<James_Martinez> it was set to "nvidia"
<James_Martinez> I'll just submit to Malone and see what happens.
<James_Martinez> thanks again bddebian
<Kyral> someone remind me to add a "Bugs Squished" section to my Wiki page
<sivang> Morning all
<zenrox> morn
<zyga> morning
<sivang> hey guys
<sivang> nobody besides us alive here it seems
<zenrox> nope
<zyga> hmm :)
<zyga> I've noticed an old bug that I've reported
<zyga> and since it already contains a patch
<zyga> anyone with cpu scaling support wants to test a one liner patch?
<zyga> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/emifreq-applet/+bug/1883
<zyga> just get the source and apply that one liner
<zyga> it's a panel applet so debugging is ackward at best
<zyga> but it just works for me
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> no dholbach around?
<ajmitch> zyga: having your team named 'ruby' might be confusing
<ajmitch> since launchpad is designed for upstream & multiple distros, not just ubuntu
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> dholbah suggested that name
* ajmitch ran into that problem with zope, where the upstream zope3 devs were registered on launchpad
<ajmitch> I know
<zyga> and after all
<ajmitch> that's why I wanted to talk to him
<zyga> launchpad is borked with regargs to ruby already
<ajmitch> hmm
<zyga> someone nicknamed ruby already polluted the namespace
<ajmitch> you *do* have teamname set as moturuby
<ajmitch> so that should be ok
<zyga> yes
<zyga> but someone with a nickname 'ruby' is far worse than moturuby
<ajmitch> I'll just tell dholbach for future suggestions :)
<ajmitch> sure
<zyga> ok
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> morning siretart
* ajmitch is relearning the meaning of pain
<ajmitch> yay for dialup
<ajmitch> oh man
<ajmitch> just reading ubuntu-devel threads
<siretart> ajmitch: whats up with you?
<sivang> ajmitch: dude , are you on the road?
<ajmitch> no, visiting parents
<ajmitch> reading jdub's idea of maintaing UVF for main
<ajmitch> I don't think he knows how much pain that would cause MOTUs
<ajmitch> since a lot of universe stuff could not be synced
<sivang> ajmitch: the problem with the registered developser, is maybe the same problem of maintainer of the source pkgs being registered in launchpad as the package maintainers?
<ajmitch> sivang: uh?
<sivang> ajmitch: ah , yeah, notice Scott's comments :)
<sivang> ajmitch: never mind, ENOCONTEXT
* ajmitch read the thread 
* ajmitch catches up on the latest politics 
<sivang> hehe
<ajmitch> it would have been nice if bzrtools 0.1.1 was released in time for breezy
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, do you know if anyone is building freenx?
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: yes, probably :)
<ajmitch> there are debian people working on it
<StrikeForce> I've seen it in other debian based distro but its not in sid yet
<StrikeForce> looks really really really nice actually
<sivang> ajmitch: Mithrandir would proably know? I know his been related to that
<ajmitch> yes, Mithrandir has been working on related code as well
<crimsun> John Nilsson raises an interesting point regarding the users who will want "new" versions of/and packages
<ajmitch> sigh, got to disconnect
<ajmitch> see you tomorrow :)
<siretart> bye ajmitch!
<ivoks> mxrvt rulez :)
<ivoks> mrxvt :)
<crimsun> it's nice :-)
<ivoks> quick and has tabs! :)
<elvirolo> hi all
<elvirolo> would it be possible to include a version of libtunepimp with mp3 support enabled in universe ? .... in order to have musicbrainz support for mp3's
<crimsun> it's possible but not really high priority at this stage
<elvirolo> ok, but is it *planned* ?
<crimsun> it is not planned
<ivoks> elvirolo: nothing is planned :)
<ivoks> elvirolo: if you provide patch for package, we will consider it
<elvirolo> ah i see :)
<elvirolo> well, i don't know how do to patches
<elvirolo> do*
<ivoks> eh
<ivoks> elvirolo: then bug people to help you
<elvirolo> but i can recompile libtunepimp correctly
<ivoks> libtunepimp won't change in breezy
<ivoks> maybe in dapper
<ivoks> elvirolo: requests/suggestions should be made before release, not after :)
<elvirolo> well ... i suppose so
<ivoks> anyway, i have to go...
<elvirolo> but it's kind of obvious that people will need mp3 support for musicbrainz
<ivoks> elvirolo: it is, but mp3 isn't free
<elvirolo> yeah i know
<ivoks> so you see...
<elvirolo> that's why you could add a mp3 enabled version in universe
<ivoks> if we enable support for mp3 in that lib
<ivoks> elvirolo: on what mp3 lib does it depend?
<elvirolo> libmad0 i think
<crimsun> it'd be a NEW anyhow since the src is in main, and we'd have to have an override to punt that one binary package to universe
<ivoks> you have to be sure :)
<elvirolo> yeah i'm sure :)
<crimsun> actually 2 packages, since there's a -dev
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> tat lib is main :)
<elvirolo> yeah
<ivoks> i'm sure it won't get mp3 support... ever :)
<ivoks> unless mp3 license holder changes license
<ivoks> :)
<elvirolo> i don't get it
<elvirolo> mp3 can be enabled (since it was on my hoary box)
<elvirolo> the only thing i did was recompiling libtunepimp
<elvirolo> http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:6_O3B8Ncu98J:www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php%3Ft%3D29370+musicbrainz+breezy&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8
<TMM> if we all head off to the mjpeggroup HQ armed with shotguns, you think they'll give ubuntu a non-revokable distribution license? :)
<elvirolo> worth a try :)
<TMM> I'd say
<TMM> if it works we'll pay apple a visit too, and have a small discussion on freetype2 hinting
<TMM> how many ubuntu users do you think there are? :)
<TMM> it would be a pretty neat army :P
* Mez builds initng for breezy
<chx> hi. yakuake is horriby borken in Breezy. (at least with Kubuntu.)
<chx> i apt-get installed, started and all keyboard input was lost
<\sh> siretart: I hope u don't snore ,-)
<Mez> \sh: you're in the same room as siretart?
<\sh> Mez: yep
<Mez> how do you know?
<Mez> \sh: aka how did you find out?
<\sh> Mez: claire send a mail out yesterday with the room list and the "this i don'T eat" list
<Mez> oh, the odl file?
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> I cant seem to get that to open
<\sh> Mez: the spreadsheet
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> OOo dont seem to work for me
<\sh> .ods = openoffice 2
<\sh> or this i'm using :)
<Mez> so where are the room lists?
<Mez> nvm
<siretart> woah great
<\sh> on the 2. worksheet in this document
<siretart> the spreadsheet had several sheet inside :)
<siretart> \sh: my girlfriend does sleep beside me, so it shouldn't be that loud ;)
<\sh> siretart: this is fantastic :) we will have a lot of fun :)
<\sh> siretart: hahaha
<siretart> muhahaha! :)
* Mez gets a user to share with
<siretart> Mez: chances are that you get the room besides us :)
<siretart> \sh: do you already have a power adapter for canada?
<\sh> siretart: yepp.
<siretart> \sh: I fail to find one on reichelt.de or conrad.de. can you give me some hints what do I exactly search for?
<\sh> siretart: i bought two sets
<siretart> cool! :)
<\sh> siretart: I bought them from mediamarkt...9.99 EUR...I'll bringt the two sets with me...one for you
<Mez> the guy wo I'm meant to be sharing with hasnt confirmed
<siretart> \sh: great! :) thank you, man!
<\sh> siretart: np :) I'll have to make a list of things I promised to bring to ubz
<\sh> "Under The Radar" from Robert F. Young for sivang
<\sh> Dlink router for mvo
<siretart> lol
<\sh> red redhat fedora for fun
<\sh> ms tshirt for annoying people
<\sh> trolltech shirt for ogra
<\sh> 2/3 six pack tin-beer to share ;)
<\sh> and last but not least a lot of humanity and fun :)
<Mez> and beer
<\sh> 12:12 < \sh> 2/3 six pack tin-beer to share ;)
<\sh> the / == or
* Mez yawns
<Mez> do any of you people smoke?
* Mez wondres why I've been put in a room with someone who like... isnt confirmed
<\sh> Mez: smoke as in tobacco or smoke as in weed?
<Mez> I meant tobacco
<\sh> well...I smoke and ogra as well...but cigarettes are bought at the famous duty free shop at the airport
<Mez> yes I know :D
<Mez> was just wondering in case I was the only one
<\sh> or tobacco....i have to have a look what they have
* Mez yawns
<Mez> well it should be cool if the guy turns up
<Mez> he's a GNOME-ite
<Mez> so ... well... I'm a kde-ite :D
<Mez> hehe
<Mez> lots of late night arguments
* siretart doesn't smoke atm
<Mez> :D
<siretart> I didn't smoke for 2 or 3 years now, I think..
<\sh> actually there will be only non-smokers rooms at holiday inn...or i think they booked only non-smokers room
<Mez> so, the meeting outside for a snaky fag eg
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> I'm slightly worried
<\sh> well...the wonderfull meetings at the hotel bar for a smoke and a after midnight drink
<Mez> the gfuy I'm sharing with has an alter ego called "alison"
<\sh> Mez: so what?
<Mez> lol: nothing - just a bit... different
<\sh> well..I hope montreal has a nice gay scene ... so I can report to my friend that he missed a better place then cologne ,-)
<Mez> lol
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> my voice sounds like I was smoking too much last night and as I drank a lot of hard stuff...it was a good evening
<siretart> \sh: a minute?
<\sh> siretart: sure
<siretart> \sh: if you have time, could you please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonpersistantUsers and tell me your opinion?
<siretart> sivang: You submitted SetupSnapshots, right?
<sivang> siretart: yep, and by sabdfl's advice I'm breaking it to moree small manageable chunks that could be spec'd independently to combine the resulting product.
<\sh> siretart: sounds like a great idea :)
<siretart> sivang: could you also look at NonpersitantUsers? I think we have some convergence
<siretart> \sh: I've already implemented this for a internet cafe, but quite hackish and with some limitations
<siretart> this Spec would be a sane rewrite for this, plus I have a production system to test this ;)
<\sh> siretart: rock :)
<siretart> sivang: which other parts are part of SetupSnapshots? and when did you talk to sabdfl?
<TMM> siretart, if I might add my 2cts, I don't think this need gdm integration, but pam integration
* Mez is now the Engb translator for ubuntu
<siretart> TMM: I've also thought about pam integration
<TMM> siretart, you could implement this pretty much 100% with pam script
<siretart> TMM: the biggest problem is that there is no sane interface to the pam configuration
<TMM> siretart, if you combine it with pam_mkhomedir or something :)
<sivang> siretart: nice spec :)
<sivang> siretart: I think it's in place for out of the box library installations, caffe and public access poiunts
<sivang> siretart: some time go, why?
<TMM> siretart, well, funny you should say that, because I am working on a spec for central authentication support, which would require a frontend for pam anyway
<siretart> TMM: lets work together about this, because this would be one of my other specs for dapper!
<siretart> sivang: just curious
<sivang> siretart: :)
* zyga hacked something similar a few weeks ago for web terminals
<TMM> siretart, shall I fist finish my spec for the central auth, en then collaborate on the front-end part of it?
<zyga> but 1) I don't know any pam stuff :)
<zyga> 2) It's totally a hack
<zyga> 3) it bypasses gdm
<siretart> TMM: will you be at UBZ?
<TMM> siretart, no
<zyga> 4) only one profile to choose from
<TMM> siretart, it's a bit too far away :)
<siretart> ;) - sure
<TMM> and I don't have $1500 laying about :P
<siretart> TMM: do you already have a BOF page for your central auth spec?
<TMM> BOF?
<sivang> TMM: Birds Of Feather
<siretart> I'm really interested in making this possible for dapper
<TMM> I'm writing it up in gedit at tme moment anyway, I was told to use the spec template on the wiki
<TMM> then I was supposed to point sabdfl to it
<siretart> TMM: please ping me of you have uploaded your gedit notes to the wiki
<zyga> siretart: I could help you with this
<TMM> siretart, I will, I'll finish them as soon as this bloody DVD is done
<siretart> I currently maintain 2 debian/ubuntu installations with central slapds as auth server
<TMM> siretart, so far I've burned 3 coasters, this is becoming a bit expensive
<siretart> and want to have this out of the box, because I'm already getting tired of setting them up again and again ;)
<siretart> zyga: great! :)
<TMM> siretart, I've got a couple of plans for dapper as well :)
<zyga> siretart: I'm still reading setup snapshots
<siretart> you all guys know, this was already an spec/idea/targeted for breezy. lets get it done for dapper!
* zyga really thinks that config diffs might not be realistic
<zyga> users ~ and installed (as well as not installed) packages are easy and doable
<zyga> but configuration varies from /etc to /var and is too tricky to do automatically
<zyga> OTOH
<siretart> why config diffs, lets hold them in bzr repos
<zyga> ubuntu could provide an image snapshot installer
<siretart> zyga: so you want spec ImageSnapshotInstaller? ;)
<zyga> something like 1) make partition 2) unpack tarball over network 3) done
<zyga> I need both actually
<zyga> they are a separate issue IMHO
<siretart> I have also another spec, which touches your request, still to be drafted
<zyga> but I do see UserSetupSnapshots + ImageSnapshotInstaller to be really usefull in web caffes
<siretart> but it doesn't use images, but preeseeded d-i
<zyga> that's far worse performance wise
<zyga> the only concern are ssh private keys
<zyga> they shouldn't be just copied obviously
<siretart> you get this with cfengine
<zyga> what's that?
<tseng> its evil
<zyga> :-)
<tseng> terribly complicated
<zyga> tseng: what is evil?
<tseng> cfengine
<zyga> I still gooogle what that is
<tseng> configuration engine
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> I still think that unpacking a tarball with -p over the network is usefull
<zyga> it's like cloning but you get to choose your fs
<siretart> tseng: well, it is intimidating at first, but if you understand how to use it, it is a very very powerful tool for clusters
<tseng> i have a "cluster"
<tseng> but no time to fight with strange tools
* zyga has a cluster at univ but it's so crappy management wise ...
<zyga> besides - a cluster of suns alphas and old pc's is hardly an useful cluster ;-)
<zyga> what besides ssh keys shouldn't be just copied when cloning?
<zyga> hostname
<siretart> how do you update your clones?
<siretart> nono, I prefer my cfengine setups :)
<\sh> prost guys
<\sh>  breakfast
<TMM> cfengine... o dear god
<TMM> that is horrible
<tseng> exactly.
<siretart> what alternatives do you use?
<TMM> homebrew apt- wrappers
<tseng> i was planning on writing my own as well
<TMM> plus a little python script to look up package names from ldap
<tseng> with expect
<siretart> hm
<siretart> and fiddling with /etc/pam.d/* using scp?
<TMM> I should write a proposal for something like that as well :)
<TMM> siretart, wget actually :)
<siretart> omg
<siretart> TMM: please spec this. but the authserver first, I need that anyway ;)
* zyga curses dying modem
<zyga> siretart: could you repeat what you've said
<TMM> brb
<sivang> zyga: just not caught on your comments re: setupsnapshots
<sivang> zyga: why wouldn't they be realistic? (conffile diffs)
<zyga> sivang: I fear that diffing whole /etc is just not enough
<zyga> sivang: if we want to diff both /etc and /var then we get lots of junk too
<zyga> sivang: example /var/named/zone
<sivang> zyga: why does it store it's zone confs over /var ? :-) (excuse the ignorance)
<zyga> sivang: ask bind
<zyga> sivang: and stuff like deborphan keeps 'config' or 'state' files in /var too
<zyga> I think that generally lots of stuff may be keeping something wortch having in /var
<sivang> zyga: I am planninig to start small acutally, already providing the PSS, and basic ~ , bookmarks and gconf stuff should be easy, from there build up.
<sivang> zyga: we can always rank conffile by importance, and store those diffs at first, then ask user "This are addtiive and appears to be non important. Would you like to store/ignore/whatever" ..
* siretart manages bind zones in /etc/named
<zyga_> darn, sorry my modem is really dying now
<zyga_> siretart: what was the last message that has arrived?
<sivang> zyga: I'll replay for you:
<sivang> 13:50 < sivang> zyga: I am planninig to start small acutally, already providing the PSS, and basic ~ , bookmarks and gconf
<siretart> he's gone
<sivang>                 stuff should be easy, from there build up.
<sivang> 13:51 < sivang> zyga: we can always rank conffile by importance, and store those diffs at first, then ask user "This are
<sivang>                 addtiive and appears to be non important. Would you like to store/ignore/whatever" ..
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> starting small is a good idea
<zyga> gconf is diffable allright
<siretart> zyga: http://siretart.tauware.de/log is the log of today
* zyga has checked that bind doesn't store configs in /var/named on ubuntu
<zyga> slackware does, darn
<sivang> hehe
* sivang removes one apps from the "breakage" list
<zyga> just to paste stuff that's missing in the log
<zyga> zyga but at the same time majority of stuff in var is useless for diff
<zyga>  zyga all the caches and such
<Yagisan> cool - amule is now dumping backtraces after installing Japanese input support
<Yagisan> it seems to hate /usr/lib/libuim.so.0
<TMM> siretart, you like the wget idea??
* TMM 's PC is sloooow....
<TMM> encoding a bunch of video while working sucks ass
* TMM needs a cluster
<siretart> TMM: wget is a tool to transfer files over http (or other method)
<TMM> siretart, I am fully aware of that
<siretart> TMM: you still need some infrastructure to manage your configs, espc when you have different target hardware and/or installation
<TMM> siretart, you also don't have to muck about with host keys for all your workstations :)
<siretart> TMM: so your wget idea does not match all my expectations. it will work in simple setups, but breaks when things get more complicated
<TMM> siretart, you simply need a lot of self-configurability of the desktop os
<TMM> such as ubuntu :)
<siretart> TMM: 'simply' is an awfull word ;)
<TMM> I don't want to worry about hardware, I've got ubuntu to do that for me
<zyga> TMM: you can get cheap pc everywhere :)
<TMM> ubuntu'll 'just work' on most of them
<siretart> TMM: I see your point, but in real world installations, it is not always easy as that
<tseng> sbackup is cool
<TMM> siretart, as long as the system boots, and gets network it can work. the system will automagically look itself up in the central ldap server (by its mac address) and finds a list of packages there, that it will then apt-get install
<Lathiat> sbackup?
<TMM> siretart, you can do all your special things in there
<tseng> "This is a user friendly backup solution for common desktop needs. The project was was sponsored by Google during Google Summer of Code 2005 and mentored by Ubuntu."
<TMM> siretart, I've implemented this in 3 companies, one of them runs 200 workstations, all ubuntu
<TMM> siretart, it works, you just need a local apt mirror and a slightly modified install image
<TMM> siretart, you push all the specific changes through deb's :)
<zyga> Lathiat: hi
<zyga> Lathiat: did you get notification about MOTURuby
<Lathiat> zyga: yes
<Lathiat> i'll be looking at that stuff this week
<Lathiat> just busy with uni atm
<TMM> siretart, KISS :D
<zyga> Lathiat: I was trying to get a pool for voting on a team leader but the pool system died :)
<Lathiat> haha
<tseng> poll
<Lathiat> oh crap
<zyga> ah
<Lathiat> can we still vote for mjg59?
<zyga> true :)
<Yagisan> ok - japanese input breaks amule posted here https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/amule/+bug/3187
<zyga> Lathiat: is mjg59 a part of m-ruby?
<Lathiat> zyga: nono
<Lathiat> he was being proposed for the technical board
<Lathiat> zyga: who needs a leader anyway
<siretart> hm. I see we need a ConfigurationInfrastructure
<\sh> guys....please do me all favour :)
<siretart> ConfigurationInfrastructure shall setup LDAP Authentication and handle software updates.. hmm
<siretart> \sh: ?
<\sh> relax :) we need you all relaxed and refreshed for dapper ;)
<siretart> ah. sure :)
* \sh is refusing to do anything which smells like work ;)
<zyga> \sh: too bad coding smells like fun
<TMM> siretart, LDAP is only part of it really
<siretart> TMM: yeah
<\sh> zyga: well...ogra is testing amd64 edubuntu dvd now...and I'm heaving breakfast, means I'm drinking a beer ;) so ... actually this is what I call relaxing
<TMM> siretart, we need SMB auth also, at least
<TMM> siretart, and a way to switch authentication methods through GDM
* zyga needs to fetch edubuntu soon
* zyga thinks about selling support + installation for ltsp
<siretart> TMM: I think I understand what you intend
<Yagisan> zyga - how about giving me a hand in getting multi-client-arch working for ltsp
<siretart> TMM: but for this, you'll need a quite sophisticated AuthenticationInfrastructure spec
<TMM> zyga, I've had a crazy idea
<TMM> siretart, which is what I am working on, I need to stop talking and continue writing soon
<zyga> Yagisan: outline the issue
<siretart> TMM: where you can define authentication methods and use a well defined interface to pam
<Yagisan> zyga: First patch is here http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17297
<siretart> TMM: ok, I won't disturb you any longer ;)
<TMM> siretart, AND It'll give me a change to horribly break dapper if I get upload permissions of my ideas :)
* siretart gets something to drink
<TMM> siretart, like the big debian sid pam outage of 3 years back
<Yagisan> zyga - but qemu isn't playing nice, so I am having trouble building ppc clients on i386/amd64
<TMM> that sucked :)
<TMM> zyga, I have been thinking about thin clients a lot, and processing power being what it is, and network speeds being what it is... why not combine ltsp with mosix?
<Yagisan> TMM: It's been done - but openmosix for 2.6.x is a bit behind
<TMM> zyga, if you migrate to a thin-client network today, your workstations will be so idiotiaclly overpowererd for the job, they might as well chip in
<zyga> Yagisan: ENOPPC but I'm still reading
<TMM> Yagisan, it has been? :) cool... I knew I couldn't have been the only one that thought about all that processing power going to waste
* zyga knows nothing about mosix
<Yagisan> TMM: I built it with 2.4.x, 2.6.x is only in sf.net cvs
<Yagisan> zyga: I used binfmt-misc to register ppc binaries to be run by qemu-ppc on i386/amd64 - but qemu bombs out trying to run bash
<TMM> siretart, shall I put you in as 'interested' in my authentication spec?
<zyga> Yagisan, TMM: I'll be back in 20 minutes
<Yagisan> TMM: 2.6.x also needs updated openmosix tools, iirc
<TMM> cool :)
<zyga> my dog looks like he could use a walk
<siretart> TMM: let me see it first, I'll add my name in your spec, then
<Yagisan> zyga - no worries - I'll be leaving for dinner soon
<sivang> TMM: you've implemented user backup tool?
<TMM> I never actually did it
<TMM> with openmosix
* zyga doubts the need of multiarch in real life though
<TMM> but I REALLY wanted when I had 200 ubuntu systems at the tip of my fingers :) too bad it was a production environment :)
<zyga> when working P2 350 are sold for 10$ who needs to support anything else :)
<zyga> okay
<zyga> bbl
<Yagisan> zyga  - I NEED multi-client-arch
<sivang> TMM: just trying to figure if my spec is obsolete
<sivang> :)
<Yagisan> zyga - I got enough working for my needs, I just want to enhance it further
<TMM> sivang, nothing is 'obsolete' I do not carry *any* weight here :)
<Yagisan> TMM: I did a 15 pc openmosix cluster - I used it for converting cd's to .oggs - took about 2 minutes a cd (300Mhz-1.6Ghz boxes)
<TMM> sivang, I don't have access to anything but the wiki and a bunch of ideas and experience :)
<TMM> Yagisan, nifty!!!! :)
<TMM> Yagisan, I do have an distcc server running on all the systems here, but that's as far as I want to go for now
<TMM> Yagisan, people use these things for other tasks as well :)
<siretart> who is HeinPietervanbraam?
<TMM> that's me
<Yagisan> TMM: pity they weren't my machines :( but I got a good mark for networking practical
<siretart> TMM: aah, you are specing ConfigurationInfrastructure. I just wanted to create such a spec ;)
<TMM> siretart, no, I am not...
<Yagisan> TMM: when local apps are working in ltsp - I'm sticking distcc on all my clients
<TMM> siretart, I think something screwed up, I only visited that page
<TMM> siretart, because you suggested it :)
<TMM> I'm specing AuthenticationInfrastructure
<siretart> great!
<TMM> siretart, its saying here that it's an empty page
<TMM> siretart, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConfigurationInfrastructure
<siretart> TMM: you didn't press 'cancel' so you retained your lock
<siretart> no problem.
<TMM> siretart, sorry
<TMM> siretart, it should be gone now
<siretart> okay
<\sh> hah
<\sh> I'm insane
<\sh> drinking beer as breakfast replacement....
<\sh> EDUBUNTU RUNS!
<\sh> from DVD
<herve> hello
<zyga> re
<zyga> Yagisan: reading againg
<zyga> s/g$/g/
<zyga> Yagisan: what is the configuration you are running?
<zyga> Yagisan: non-i386 + i386 or other way around?
<TMM> I like the 'use case' part :)
<thierry_> I got some problem with libofx2 package...
<thierry_> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/libofx2_1%3a0.8.0-3ubuntu8_i386.deb: tried to replace /usr/share/libofx/dtd/opensp.dcl, who is also owned by libofx0c102
<thierry_> sorry for the poor english, I just did a fast translation
<siretart> muhaha
<siretart> we will have a lot of fun the next months! :)
<siretart> first draft of ConfigurationInfrastructure specced
* zyga is doing an interesting experiment
<zyga> diff of hoary + breezy final upgrade from CD diffed against clean breezy install
<sivang> zyga: how do you do that ?
<siretart> TMM: have you seen this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication ?
<TMM> siretart, crud, that looks rather similar to mine
<zyga> sivang: install hoary, instert breezy cd, upgrade, boot knoppix, create tarball and sent it somewhere, install breezy, boot knoppix, create tarball and send it somewhere, extract both tarballs, diff -u
<zyga> s/sent/send/
<TMM> siretart, but lacks some things I also need, I should probably add that
<siretart> TMM: I'd say finish drafting your spec, and then lets compare the two drafts
<siretart> we can merge then later anyway
<siretart> I think this NetworkAuthentication spec is way too vague and covers way too much
<TMM> most of the specs are a bit wrong though
<zyga> sivang: I didn't use the box so there should be little crap in /home - I think it's a good idea
<TMM> for instance, you really don't want seperate network filesystems for your *nix boxes and your win32 boxes, just use cifs for everything
<TMM> nfs isn't capable anyway
<sivang> zyga: ah, you doing releases diffs
<siretart> TMM: I wouldn't want to have my home on cifs
<zyga> sivang: what did you think I was doing?
<sivang> zyga: sorry, I was confused with some backlog I was reading at the same time
<TMM> siretart, that actually works pretty good
<sivang> zyga: thinking of incremental upgrades maybe? would be nice of we got that one there..would save lots of badnwidth and time for upgrades
<TMM> siretart, would you rather have a homedir that everyone that knows your UID can read and write to?
<Yagisan> zyga: back again
<zyga> Yagisan: re
<TMM> siretart, token based nfs authentication still is not implemented, it is being worked on, it was slated for inclusion in 2.6.10, but that never happened
<siretart> TMM: does cifs support symlinks? hardlinks? sockets?
<Yagisan> zyga: I've already deployed amd64 server + i386 clients
<TMM> siretart, it does, hp and samba drafted posix extensions that work with samba
<zyga> Yagisan: I need to try edubuntu soon
<zyga> Yagisan: I've got two extra boxes here to play with
<TMM> siretart, and, if you install unix services for windows win2k+ can do it too
<Yagisan> zyga: I am doing the patches for edubuntu
<siretart> TMM: sounds interesting. lets have a closer look at it and write a usable spec
<Yagisan> zyga: Schools have a mix of different boxes
<TMM> siretart, I'm trying to :)
<TMM> nfs really is a no-go for now
<siretart> TMM: quit from irc and come back when finished *g*
<TMM> nfsv4 has the potential, but not the implementation
<siretart> up to now, I only used nfsv3, with all limitations
<sivang> zyga: I wonder if we'll get anything on the incremental upgrades thingy, you talking about diffing breezy vs. hoary reminded me of that
<siretart> but what you say makes cifs interesting
<TMM> siretart, limitations in one thing, it is just incredibly insecure
<siretart> cifs would mean to fiddle around with samba, and this scares me a bit ;)
<TMM> siretart, if you root a box that is connected to the network, and that can mount it, you can access all info, and destroy everything
<Yagisan> zyga: I planned to use qemu for building ppc clients on i386 or amd64 servers, and i386 clients on ppc servers
<zyga> sivang: delta updates  are already deployed in mandrivia, no?
<sivang> zyga: don;t know
<siretart> TMM: and with cifs? I can still su to the users and access his home, true?
<Yagisan> zyga: but it seems qemu isn't up to the task of ppc on i386/amd64
<TMM> siretart, only from the box he logged into, and only while he is logged in
<zyga> Yagisan: no, it isn't :/
<Yagisan> zyga: and I lack ppc hardware to test i386 on ppc
<siretart> TMM: sounds great
<TMM> siretart, if you root a box that has a mount to a share, then obviously you own that share, but only for the user that has logged into it
<TMM> siretart, with nfs you could just write a small script that rotates your uid/gid and try rm -rf * on ech export for each uid
<Yagisan> zyga: You can see from my patch that I cover all "trivial" combinations though
<TMM> siretart, that would actually result in an emty server
<zyga> Yagisan: yes quite impressive :)
<zyga> Yagisan: small but usable
<Yagisan> zyga: yep - It's amazing what you can do when your livelihood depends on it
<zyga> hehe
* zyga never managed to do a small patch that fixes major bugs
<Yagisan> zyga: other then qemu - is there any other way we could get say ppc on i386/amd64 ?
<zyga> Yagisan: there is peach or something like that
<zyga> Yagisan: FOSS ppc emulator
<zyga> pearpc
<zyga> sorry ;] 
<Yagisan> zyga: ah - pearpc - full system - chokes on 2.6.x kernels
<Yagisan> zyga: Individual binaries are what's needed
<Yagisan> zyga : or - complete manual unpack and configure, using the native tools :(
* zyga needs to know how lstp works 
<zyga> it's a netboot + / over nfs?
<Yagisan> zyga: yes
<Yagisan> zyga: needs pxe - or etherboot with pxe emulation built in
<zyga> Yagisan: so unless I'm mistaken: different / for every arch
<zyga> then what?
<Yagisan> zyga : that's right, different root for each arch, client boots, establishes a ssh session to the server
<Yagisan> zyga: and runs etherything on the server
<zyga> Yagisan: ahhh
<Yagisan> s/etherything/everything
<zyga> Yagisan: /me though clients use their own CPU for running stuff
<zyga> cool
<zyga> so it's a real thin client, only X is running on the client
<zyga> well...
<zyga> I'd say it's difficult/inpractical to run ppc over i386
<Yagisan> zyga: I needed multiclinet-arch as I have 1 amd64 + 2 p2 < 300Mhz
<zyga> speed will suck
<Yagisan> zyga: it's only needed to run ppc code during unpack and setup of the chroot
<zyga> Yagisan: well for amd64 you could just run a chroot probably, right?
<zyga> Yagisan: ah
<zyga> Yagisan: wait
<zyga> so a ppc client powers up
<zyga> it fetches boot code via pxe or something like that
<zyga> then what?
<Yagisan> zyga: loads the ppc kernel other the network
<Yagisan> zyga: 8over
<zyga> right
<zyga> and then
<zyga> ?
<Yagisan> zyga: loads a ssh session to the server, then starts a local xserver to display the apps
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> so when do you need to run ppc on the server? I'm still not getting this
<Yagisan> zyga: I need to run ppc on the server when I build the ppc chroot that will contain the ppc kernel and xserver
<zyga> ahh
<zyga> Yagisan: can't you just pull precompiled stuff?
<Yagisan> zyga: that is the only time (apart from upgrades) that I need it
<TMM> do the values between @'s automatically get expanded in the wiki?
<zyga> Yagisan: or use one of the clients to act as a support box when doing that?
<Yagisan> zyga: it's a chicken and egg - how can the client help if the client can't boot
<zyga> Yagisan: boot a live cd on the client, use the client to do anything you need
<zyga> it's a one-time operation
<Yagisan> zyga: that doesn't scale to other arches, and requires manual intervention :(
* zyga reads weather forecast.. snow in the south ... yay
<zyga> Yagisan: true
<zyga> Yagisan: is the chroot build automatic?
<zyga> Yagisan: it sure scales to other arches - you just need a livecd for every arch you've got
<Yagisan> zyga: yes - works similar to building a pbuilder chroot
<zyga> Yagisan: then it could be automatic
<Yagisan> zyga: not all arches can boot from cd
<zyga> Yagisan: you are trying to get too much, my toster cannot boot linux - I don't care
<zyga> s/toster/toaster/
<Yagisan> zyga: I'm only interested in what what ubuntu supports - they are getting sparc and ia64 and hppa going
<Yagisan> zyga: and your toaster should run netBSD
<Yagisan> :)
<zyga> Yagisan: hehe :>
<TMM> siretart, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AuthenticationInfrastructure
<TMM> siretart, it's not everything I wanted to put in, but it's a start
<Yagisan> zyga: what arches can you test ?
<zyga> Yagisan: ubuntu will officially support ia64 and sparc?
* zyga always wanted a sparc station but they either cost more than 10$ (while being worth 5) or are loud as hell, or both
<zyga> modem died again, sorry
<Yagisan> zyga: i don't know - I just lurk in some channels and follow the conversation
* Yagisan also would like a sparc
* Yagisan actually would like at least one of every arch Debian runs on
* zyga wants a silenced room to put all that noisy crap
* Yagisan is partially deaf - I probably can't hear it
<zyga> you can fell the vibrations and excesive heat though
<Yagisan> zyga: yeah - but it would be cool to show off, "hey guys, even my coffee pot runs linux" :)
* zyga has a gamecube
<zyga> that's a ppc and a good motivation to run linux
<Yagisan> zyga: I think there is a gamecube linux
<zyga> but I need a modchip and eth0 that both cost around $100
<zyga> there sure is :D
<zyga> but 30 megs of usefull ram is a slight disadvantage
<Yagisan> zyga: that would make an excellent ltsp thin client
<Yagisan> zyga: so you DO have a ppc system to help me with :)
<zyga> Yagisan: but I still need a modchip and eth0 :D
<Yagisan> zyga: details, details
<zyga> you can click on ads on my blog if you really want to help me helping you ;] 
<zyga> I've got $0.74 ATM
<zyga> :-))
<zyga> OTOH it'd be alot easier to buy old g3
* zyga is confused about ppc/mac cpu complexity
<Yagisan> zyga: I have $10au left in my account - If I don't get another customer soon I can't pay the rent :(
<zyga> Yagisan: what do you sell/support?
<Yagisan> zyga: E-Security services (data recovery, pen testing etc)
<Yagisan> zyga: I did a layout mockup of a website a while ago while I develop a real one
<zyga> Yagisan: expand your services
<zyga> Yagisan: I'm still amazed by how inefficient major corporations are
<zyga> I'm a freelance programmer - I constantly get hired to 'provide a solution'
<Yagisan> zyga: general layout mockup can be found here http://users.tpg.com.au/yagisan/
<zyga> since I'm not hired as an analysist I just get to write code according to specs
<zyga> Yagisan: http://www.suxx.pl/blog
<zyga> Yagisan: use nicer stylesheet
<zyga> colors suck IMHO
<zyga> (anyway)
<zyga> all the time I write something that is useless
<zyga> I get paid
<zyga> a month passes
<Yagisan> zyga: it's a mockup. I like the colours, but the fonts and sizing suck
<zyga> and I get hired again to write from scratch/improve previous tool
<zyga> and this goes on and on since every version is equally useless  :-)
<zyga> I guess I could go to that company and say 'your analisyst sucks, hire me'
<zyga> but I neet to eat and such so I don't care ;-)
<zyga> Yagisan: get rid of those buttons on the bottom, your clients don't even know what that is
<zyga> or make them small and invisible unless you really look
<zyga> get rid of 'page looks odd'
<zyga> your clients don't like to feel stiupid
<zyga> they will ignore you to prove their point
<zyga> :-)
<Yagisan> zyga: I haven't even offically launched it - it was a mockup
<zyga> Yagisan: I know :)
<zyga> and really change the colours to something corporate
<zyga> blue+white  with black text
<Yagisan> zyga: I didn't even put content up!
<zyga> :-)
<zyga> I'm commenting on the mockup
<Yagisan> zyga: I hadn't done html for a long time - and then I discovered that IE would eat my css
<Yagisan> zyga: so I put a bitch page for content
<zyga> Yagisan: why don't you use an existing webportal/blog tool?
<zyga> it's easier, works everywhere, looks good on various browsers and is more less correct according to taste/choice
<Yagisan> zyga: because I haven't found one I like - I'm looking through aptitude now
<zyga> Yagisan: aptitude hasn't got much webapps IMHO
<zyga> Yagisan: try wordpress for blog - it's really good
<Yagisan> zyga: is it in apt ?
<zyga> looks excelent, has free and easy templates, is fully XHTML
<zyga> Yagisan: no - it cannot be
<zyga> it's like you want to install something in $HOME/public_html via apt ;-)
<Kyral> Good morning
<zyga> morning Kyral
<Yagisan> zyga: what's it depend on ?
<zyga> Yagisan: php, mysql
<Yagisan> G'day Kyral
<zyga> Yagisan: my blog runs that if you want to have a look
<Yagisan> zyga - looking at your blog
<zyga> It's fully GPLd if you care
<zyga> admin side is lovely
<zyga> easy upgrade notification
<zyga> lots of plugins for various stuff
<Yagisan> zyga: actually I do care (my pet package was rejected because upstream didn't care)
<Yagisan> zyga: easy to transport between hosting providers ?
<zyga> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
<zyga> themes for you ;-)
<zyga> Yagisan: yes, just export your database
<Yagisan> zyga: I'll try to set that up on my ddns system - looks interesting
<zyga> Yagisan: installation is easy all you need is to extract a tarball and click a few times
<Yagisan> zyga: reading manual
<Yagisan> zyga: you really hate my colours don't you
<zyga_> cable tech support came, still no luck with modem :/
<Yagisan> zyga_: whats wrong with your modem ?
<zyga_> Yagisan: I don't know yet - it keeps disconnecting
<zyga_> the signal suddenly became a lot weaker
<Yagisan> zyga_: my adsl modem does that when it gets hot (cheap netcomm crap)
<zyga_> brb
<zyga> re
<zyga> :-)
<zyga> filter added, modem works
<Yagisan> zyga: be back soon - putting daughter to bed
<siretart> re
<siretart> TMM: I just read your AuthenticationInfrastructure spec
<Mez> \sh: ping
<TMM> siretart, any good?
<siretart> TMM: I'm a bit puzzeled
<siretart> it describes an concept of "proxy pam authentication"
<siretart> but I don't get the idea what this would mean
<TMM> siretart, then the spec needs clearing up :)
<siretart> does it mean that all applications need to be rewritten to use this proxy interface?
<TMM> no
<siretart> and after all, how would this be implemented?
<siretart> TMM: what do you think how long would it take to implement that spec?
<TMM> doesn't HAVE to be long I think
<TMM> but, there's still some details that I need to think about, you wanted to read it, so I put it up :)
<siretart> okay
<TMM> the difficulty is in providing different pam plugins in different situations without switching the entire application stack over
<siretart> I was rather thinking about some interfaces to the existing pam config
<siretart> similar to update-inetd
<siretart> yeah
<TMM> the trouble with that is for multiple logins at the same machine
<TMM> if you switch the pam plugins over later, suddenly your session might be worthless
<TMM> even more so with NSS :)
<siretart> can't you assume that the same login is unique over the network?
<siretart> wouldn't that make thinks easier?
<TMM> you'd have to assume that there is only one person at a machine at one time I think...
<TMM> although you could only switch gdm over I suppose
<siretart> no, that would break ltsp installations very very hard
<TMM> it's not ideal :)
<TMM> that's why I came up with the proxy pam stuff
<siretart> which I don't understand at all :)
<TMM> basically the idea is that the first session you start will have a type of authentication associated with it, if there is no type, it'll default to the current behaviour
<TMM> does that make any sense?
<TMM> OK, I need to clarify this in the spec :D
<siretart> idea taken, okay. but how does that fit into /etc/pam.d/*?
<siretart> TMM: yes, clarify this and try to sketch how a possible implementation could work under the hoods
<TMM> the proxy would delegate the actual authentication to one of the 'real' plugins
<Mez> \sh: regarding amarok... get it ready for dapper and I'll shove it into backports as soon as possible
<TMM> you can cascade credentials down in the stack of plugins
<TMM> the difference between that and this would be that the order of the plugins won't be determined by the various conf files directly anymore, but by pam itself
* TMM just realises something
<TMM> you can already pretty much do that
<siretart> yes?
<siretart> your proposal sounds a bit like messing a lot with libpam.
<TMM> yeah, it's messing a lot with libpam
<TMM> trying to work around some of its limitations
<siretart> pam is a very security sensitive library. every change to that would require a lot of review. a hell of lot of reviews
<TMM> I need to run some tests this week
<TMM> I think I've got an idea that wouldn't require changes to libpam itself
<TMM> will probably still need to patch libnss though
<TMM> I can't really see a way around that
<siretart> that would be better, because I don't think we could to massive changes to pam ourselves
<siretart> hm. still libnss changes.. hmhm
<TMM> depends a bit on how the nss sessions are regulated exactly...
<TMM> it's current for a session, but, during some tests I did sometimes nss updates itself during a session, if that happens you are screwed
* TMM wonders if you could do some ld_preload type hacks for that...
<TMM> siretart, this is what is bugging me:
<TMM> siretart, user logs in, and chooses "SMB auth" from gdm, all the scripts run, user authenticates, then, starts a nested login, and chooses local...
<TMM> siretart, then logs in again... in what state is the PAM/NSS stuff then?
<TMM> well, the state of the config files would be rahter obvious, but, what happens to authentication after that
* siretart is really scared by the idea that configuration itself are statefull
<TMM> siretart, how else would you do it? if it was trivial, then it would have been done long ago :)
<mikhail^> how do i know who have signed my gnupg key already?
<siretart> TMM: I'd rather define an interface to the current existing pam/nss config, that is scriptable
<siretart> TMM: so that local admins can still keep ther sophisticated pam setups
<siretart> TMM: but for projects like ClusterInstallation there is a defined interface to configure defined setups
<siretart> this is much less than your proposal, I know.
<siretart> But this way, we don't need to convince pitti that we need massive changes to pam and nss
<siretart> and this is in fact my biggest concern.
<siretart> when we touch libpam and/or libnss, it must be in a very save and sane way. We need to convince the security team, that the changes are supportable for 5 years!
<siretart> you see my point?
<TMM> siretart, well, the problem is still with the state of the pam/nss after a change while in another login
<TMM> siretart, especially nss
<siretart> -v please
<TMM> ah, verbose :)
<TMM> The nss lookups in a session, after /etc/nsswitch.conf has changed
<siretart> yes
<TMM> will the uid/gid numbers be resolved from the source you had when you first logged in, or from the new changed state
<TMM> and, I have tested this
<TMM> and the answer seems to be :"Perhaps"
<TMM> that's not really good enough :)
<siretart> I think the answer to this question is: all sources should be queried everytime, in a defined order
<TMM> sorry for the non-verbosiveness, some people have decided that it is a good idea to talk to me
<TMM> siretart, that is easy to do, but slow as hell
<siretart> slow as hell?
<siretart> use nscd
<TMM> that'll just make matters worse
<TMM> say you have an authentication method configured for SMB, LDAP, local and NDS
<TMM> no matter what order you do, you are going to lag like a lot, especially if you need to change the order later, since nscd will be lagging, you could kill -hup it on change i suppose  though...
<siretart> I get your problem very slowly. perhaps you should add this explanation to your spec
<siretart> but I think I get you
<siretart> still, I don't think this would be implementable in 2,5 months
<TMM> nss is rather integral to the system, problem is, I am not EXACTLY sure where it fits in, but, afaik, it is called directly from the c library for certain operations, such as gethostbyname etc
<TMM> and, changing its config will have effect on everything that uses those calls, pretty much immediatly
<TMM> that needs to change
<siretart> TMM: I have further question
<TMM> siretart, please do! :) you are really helping me see the things I missed
<siretart> TMM: does your concept handle the case of authentication with other facilities than gdm?
<siretart> TMM: what about ssh, or even cron?
<siretart> or imap?
<TMM> for that it wouldn't be needed, as this is only intended as a way for users to log in to different systems, like the laptop example in the spec
<TMM> for services, I need to draft another spec to compliment it
<TMM> but they would not be handeled like this, they would be handeled in a bit more classic way, but with a configuration per service, that is static to be determined by the adminstrator
<siretart> so you are saying users should only use gdm?
<TMM> on an ubuntu desktop? yes
<siretart> and I say definitly NO
<siretart> you break a lot of things with this
<TMM> it's not like you are alienating anyone or any authentication mechanisms
<TMM> or breaking anything
<TMM> there is no point to have a mail server authentication that is remotly configurable, you want to set that on the host that provides the service
<siretart> how would a user then be able to authenticate when he tries to ssh to a workstation?
<TMM> locally probably
<siretart> or how he would be able to run cronjobs?
<TMM> unless otherwise configured
<siretart> only if he has a local account
<siretart> what if the account is in ldap?
<siretart> then no ssh to a machine is possible?
<TMM> that is the whole point of this scheme
<siretart> then I cannot support it. sorry
<TMM> to be able to authenticate in a meaningful way if one of the mechanisms isn't functional
<TMM> think laptop here for a second
<TMM> for a desktop nothing much would change
<TMM> you have a central authentication mechanism, that could simply also be set for ssh
<TMM> and probably would be, as the machine is immobile
<siretart> if you break ssh authentication with users only in ldap, you instantly break ltsp installations
<TMM> no, I don't break that
<TMM> this would make it possible to use a laptop temporary as a ltsp thin client!
<TMM> the problem is MOBILE computers
<TMM> for immobile compuers NOTHING would have to change
<siretart> .oO( perhaps we should have taken this to #ubuntu-devel - more experienced developers are there )
<TMM> at least I know what I have to clarify in my spec
<siretart> yeah, this is a big step :)
<TMM> but, trust me, this is not going to break pure ldap usersnames
<siretart> I'm looking forward to read your implementation proposal
<TMM> me too :)
<siretart> you're ideas are really rocking!
<siretart> but keep in mind, to get this into dapper, we must implement this in less than 2.5 months
<TMM> have you had the misfortune to work with a windows box lately?
<TMM> XP even?
<siretart> better in less time
<siretart> TMM: I don't care about windows
<TMM> but, did you? :)
<TMM> you can select what 'domain' you want to log on to, local or some network or whatever at the login manager
<TMM> this is basically only trying to do this in a way that it won't break anything else
<siretart> some parts of our university are using them
<siretart> I have to use that option, and I think it is really awfull. we should try to avoid asking the user that question
<TMM> for laptop users it's good
<TMM> the laternative is timing out
<siretart> yes
<siretart> but in unix land, we have other services, with other philosophy
<TMM> for desktop users we are going to have the option to not display it :)
<siretart> please answer also this question in your spec:
<TMM> we could use soething like rendevouz or SLP
<siretart> you have different auth servers: ldap, local and smb
<TMM> but that's not going to work in legacy windows networks
<siretart> how does ssh/cron learn which one to query?
<TMM> and I want to make it possible for dapper to plug into a windows network that windows does
<TMM> siretart, and, for dapper to provide windows services to clients that need it
<siretart> TMM: as said, I'm happy to read your implementation proposal, but think about our available timeframe
<TMM> some hack isn't going to cut it here
<TMM> :)
<siretart> TMM: and I like you to talk to pitti, keybuk and/or jbaily about this. I'd like to hear other opinions, and if they think if it feasible for dapper
<TMM> ok, I will do that
<siretart> TMM: you know, you are requesting very much
<TMM> I'm willing to put a lot of work into it myself
<TMM> I'm not asking for someone to do it for me
<siretart> and I'm willing to support you, If you can convince me that your implementation design is sane :)
<TMM> I will tweak it
<TMM> and run more tests
<TMM> asap
<siretart> okay :)
<siretart> and: thank you for doing this. you have great ideas!
<TMM> I want to have something that is at least discussable in time for ubz
<TMM> siretart, no problem, I enjoy this
<TMM> ubuntu's community is great
<siretart> :)
<siretart> definitly!
<TMM> :)
<TMM> I'll try to finish off something better soon
<TMM> perhaps I'll have to settle for a config tool that allows it to be configured as 'windows client'
<TMM> and not have the choice at login at all
<TMM> that should be doable in a couple of weeks
<TMM> perhaps my idea is more post-dapper then... when all the setting scripts are in place..
<siretart> remember that I really need NetworkAuthentication, even when it only works with ldap
<TMM> setting up an ldap client isn't really hard
<TMM> even from a config tool :)
<TMM> siretart, there has got to be a way to do this properly :)
<\sh> siretart: u think with 100 packages out of marillat and debian he's able to upgrade cleanly?
<koke> most of the BOF descriptions are empty right now :(
<TMM> siretart, I think I see a better way...
<siretart> \sh: I think so. where do you expect breakage?
<TMM> siretart, I only need that proxy thing for NSS really
<TMM> siretart, and that is fairly easy to implement as 'just another nss plugin'
<siretart> TMM: sounds great! :)
<TMM> you can set some variables in pam sessions, I could store the method used to authenticate there, then look that up with my nssswitch plug
<TMM> does that sound better? :)
<siretart> if that works safely, why not
<TMM> siretart, I honestly can't think of a security problem with NSS...
<TMM> siretart, well, perhaps if *someuser* started to resolve to UID 0
<TMM> hem
<TMM> ok...
<TMM> perhaps there IS a security risk :)
<Lathiat> security risk where?
<TMM> Lathiat, changes to NSS in general
<Lathiat> howso?
<TMM> depends a bit if NSS is only convenience or not :) but, I suppose that there is UID checking on a lower level than NSS
<TMM> it's been a long day :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart> heyho bddebian!
<sivang> heythere bddebian
<Lathiat> oh no
<Lathiat> its bddebian
<Lathiat> everyone hide
<TMM> siretart, I've got to stop thinking about this today, I've had too much on my mind now :)
<bddebian> Hello siretart, Lathiat
<bddebian> Lathiat: Hide from me? :-)
<Lathiat> hi bddebian!
<Lathiat> bddebian: hide the thermonuclear weapons!
<TMM> I should have enough time before UBz begins to get something into shape :)
<siretart> TMM: well, I'm off for today, too. Lets discuss this tomorrow
<TMM> siretart, good idea
<bddebian> Gah :-)
<siretart> TMM: or somewhen else.
<siretart> I'd also like to bring this up to the ubuntu-devel mainling list, because I think a quite wide audience would be intersted in that
<siretart> bye folks!
<Yagisan> thermonuclear weapons ?
<TMM> and, I suppose that nss is not very security critical...
<TMM> tomorrow! :)
* TMM needs sleep
* siretart too
* Yagisan thinks that might be enough to get the roaches from next door
<sivang> TMM: already working on dapper packages? :)
<TMM> sivang, trying to spec features I'd like to implement
* TMM needs to talk to a pam expert
<TMM> my knowledge is apparently fading a bit in the details
<TMM> not helping :)
<Mez> siretart: ping
<siretart> Mez: I'm rather already off
<Mez> siretart: was just wondering where they keyring for revu was
<siretart> /srv/revu1/uploaders.gpg
<siretart> Mez: use revu-key to add ppl to the keyring, as documented in revu-trac
<siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/trac
<Mez> cool
<Mez> I wanst given the terac url
<bddebian> Heya Mez
<Mez> hey bddebian
<siretart> oh sorry
* siretart off for now. cu!
<xophEr> can I get adobe reader for breezy via the official repositories some day?
<Lathiat> isnt it already in as 'acroread' ?
<xophEr> acroread-debian-files is all I can find
<xophEr> no idea what they are
<LaserJock> bddebian: who can mark a bug as fixed, does it need to be a MOTU?
<bddebian> LaserJock: No, as long as you have editbugs rights
<LaserJock> bddebian: what do you think about https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/xfig/+bug/2029?
<zyga_> wake up guys :)
<zenrox> i am awake
<zenrox> i think
<zyga_> let's package abiword 2.4 with grammar checking while it's still hot  :-)
<zyga_> 2.4.1 that is
<zenrox> i ant that awake
<bddebian> LaserJock: Close it :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: done :-)
* zyga_ is pulling the code and checking dependencies
<zyga> err
<zyga> err :/
<zyga> I hate this... It's already packaged
<spayne> hey all
<spayne> i got my key signed!
<spayne> i have a .sig file, what do i do now?
<LaserJock> spayne: how did that go? I need to get that done too
<spayne> it was great
<spayne> i met Jon and persuaded him to package for Ubuntu!
<spayne> he is a Debian guy but wanting a chage
<LaserJock> cool
<spayne> which key server should i use?
<jinty> hoi ajmitch
<LaserJock> spayne: have you looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GetYourKeySigned ?
<spayne> going :)
* ajmitch waves to jinty, a couple of hours late :)
<jinty>  hay ajmitch
<jinty> no worries
<jinty> just about that schooltool-live package
<ajmitch> oh?
<jinty> yeah, the settings for the schooltool livecd
<jinty> that wasn't on the agenda for breezy
<jinty> I'm interested in having it in universe
<ajmitch> for dapper?
<jinty> indeed
<ajmitch> (sorry, very lagged on dialup today)
<jinty> ah
* jinty feels like he is shouting down a telephone over a bad connection
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is it OK to reject Malone #3039?
<ajmitch> so what's involved in the schooltool-live setup
<jinty> all it does is depend on schooltool/schoolbell, and put a few files into /etc/skel
<ajmitch> LaserJock: probably my fault too :)
<ajmitch> jinty: ok
<jinty> so that icons appear on all new users desktops
* ajmitch hasn't done a live setup before :)
* jinty just wants to fix up a the maintainer scripts so that the files get deleted on remove
<ajmitch> I don't think there'd be any obstacle to getting it in for dapper
<jinty> cool, so you could upload it now?
<jinty> heh, if you have the time...
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> dapper isn't open yet :)
<jinty> ah, well then I guess I will ping you again later...
<bmonty> hi all
<ajmitch> hi bmonty
<jinty> thanks anyway
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why did you want to reject that bug?
<LaserJock> sorry, I just set it to fixed
<LaserJock> It said that the ipython symbolic link wasn't right
<ajmitch> but was it fixed?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I just installed ipython and everything was OK
<LaserJock>  /usr/bin/ipython -> /etc/alternatives/ipython
<LaserJock> and /etc/alternatives/ipython -> /usr/bin/python2.4-ipython
<ajmitch> so he may have had alterbatives set wrong
<LaserJock> perhaps
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-21
<Kyral> yo
<sivang> hey Kyral
<sivang> :)
<sivang> 'sup dude?
<Kyral> Finally getting around to ditching usplash and jacking up the res on my boot-up sequence :D
<sivang> (I'm off to bed soonish, just wanted to answer so you won't get the feeling of an empty house ;-)
<Kyral> Don't like Splash Screens :P
<sivang> Kyral: with whom are you discussing it? what is that res for you boot-up sequence?
<Kyral> It runs at 800x600 on a 1200x1024 monitor
<Kyral> I'm just using a HOWTO offa the forums
<Kyral> Also spicing up the colors ;P
<sivang> ah cool :)
<sivang> I have a friend who did this as well
<Kyral> I find it comforting to see "OK!" scroll past at boot ;P
<sivang> he wanted something more of the default
<Kyral> I mean, a bootsplash in the style of Gentoo would be nice
<Kyral> like its just like a terminal window
<Kyral> but I don't know how to change USplash's image
<sivang> Kyral: talk to mvo, I think he's the guy who did that.
<Kyral> mmhmm
<Kyral> Oh, Kernel 2.6.12-9 is out right?
<Kyral> then why hasn't my usual update cycle snagged it...
<sivang> Kyral: good night, if you found a bug don't forget to report it :)
<Kyral> yup yup
<Kyral> Nothing like compiling a new kernel on a Saturday night
<Kyral> yo
<LaserJock> Kyral: got nothing better to do? ;-)
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> and I wanted to streamline it
<LaserJock> what are you streamlining?
<Kyral> the kernel ;P
<Kyral> 2.6.13.4
<Kyral> I want to have it so only what I need to run my machine is in there
<LaserJock> got preemtible kernel and stuff like that?
<Kyral> Having a ****load of modules is fine for the kernel when you are installing onto a machine for the first time, but I've had this system for about 1 year now
<Kyral> I know exactly whats in it ;D
<Kyral> Partially prempt
<Kyral> there is a new option
<Kyral> tells you which is best for which application (Server, Desktop, Low-Mem)
<LaserJock> cool
<Kyral> and something I find really cool
<Kyral> though just cosmetic
<LaserJock> I haven't done a recompile of a kernel since I made the move to Ubuntu
<Kyral> build in option that allows you to append a custom version string to the kernel ;P
<LaserJock> I find the Ubuntu k7 kernel to be pretty speedy on my machine, but I know what you mean about having a butt load of modules
<Kyral> I'm not using the KPackage thing
<Kyral> I'm doing the old fashioned way
<Kyral> download the tar.bz2 from Kernel.org, make oldconfig, make menuconfig, etc
<Kyral> my CPU hasn't seen this much full power compiling in a LONG time :D
<LaserJock> iv'e was doing a lot of compiling for the FTBFS push the day Brezzy came out
<Kyral> My CPU has been at full load since 8:49 PM EST :P
<LaserJock> compiling your kernel?
<Kyral> bingo :P
<Kyral> Another reason I wanna cut it down. Save compile time ;P
<LaserJock> geez, what kind of processor are you running? PII ;-)
<Kyral> Athlon XP 2700+ @ 2.1 GHz
<LaserJock> hhmmm, doesn't seem like it should take that much time
<Kyral> You don't understand, the Ubuntu Config enables just about EVERY MODULE
<Kyral> Crap compile error
<LaserJock> but I though you were getting rid of those you don't need
<LaserJock> *thought
<Kyral> NOW I will
<chillywilly> MOTUs rule
<g14> Does anyone agree with me when I say that the default ubuntu (or debian) install should have more than just a / partition set up by default?
<g14> I'm writing a presentation / paper on why and would like some feedback
<Nafallo> g14: it has already.
<Nafallo> so... no :-)
<g14> Nafallo: What partitions does it seperate?
<Nafallo> / and swap :-)
<g14> lol, smarta**
<g14> I was thinking about some cool use cases though
<Nafallo> don't. if you need that you should manage to make the partitioning manually.
<g14> Like you put in a dapper cd and it recognizes that /home is on it's own partition. It wipes and updates everything but home after you say yes when prompted to upgrade
<g14> For security and stability, it makes more sense
<g14> I mean it's not a huge change, but it would make ubuntu, just "that much better TM"
<Nafallo> a, so what you want is not to change the default behavior but add a warning or something like that then.
<g14> no, /boot, /tmp, /var, and /home should be on seperate partitions by default
<g14> It would be trivial to add to the installer
<Nafallo> could you add a wishlist bugg against installer on bugzilla (I guess that's still the BTS for main)
<Nafallo> ehm, IMO they should not.
<g14> Why not?
<g14> Give me a good reason
<Nafallo> cause users will be annoyed when their last megs they need for yet another porndownload exists on /boot
<Nafallo> they can't use that
<g14> well /boot only needs about 20MB
<Nafallo> so?
<Nafallo> if there are 10MB free and /home is filled you got an annoyed user.
<eazel7> hi ppl
<g14> And what if their pornodownload makes their system unbootable?
<Nafallo> ehm... we are using linux :-)
<g14> Then they are way pissed at linux and hate it for "sucking so bad"
<Nafallo> 5% are always reserved for root :-)
<g14> To a newbie, gnome = linux
<eazel7> where can I find info about next ubuntu dev branch?
<g14> So if gnome doesn't load, linux sucks
<Nafallo> what I said
<g14> And is broken
<g14> logical partitioning would prevent that from ever happening
<Nafallo> eazel7: what info are you looking for? :-)
<Nafallo> g14: still not needed in most cases
<eazel7> Nafallo, now that breezy is released, where's the unstable?
<Amaranth> eazel7: see #ubuntu-devel topic
<g14> Key word, "most cases"
<Nafallo> eazel7: there is none. it's opened next week.
<Nafallo> g14: the rest of the cases can use manual partitioning.
<g14> Ubuntu doesn't ship with a grub splash because on some video cards / archs, it makes the menu look very weird
<eazel7> thanks
<g14> So "most cases" were trumped for the minority
<g14> If it is preventable for the minority to have a messed up system and it doesn't affect anyone else, isn't that a much better idea?
<Nafallo> well, I had grubsplash on one boot. I didn't get to see it, so I removed it :-).
<Amaranth> g14: I'd rather have a dull grub that works everywhere than a flashy grub that causes headaches in #ubuntu
<Nafallo> we are talking about corner-cases here.
<g14> Amaranth: That is my point
<g14> Amaranth: Setting up seperate partitons by default would save problems
<Nafallo> anyway, I'm not the one taking decisions.
<g14> I am asking for opinions, not decisions
<Nafallo> but both debian and ubuntu have always had root+swap. I trust both of the devel-teams on that decision :-).
<g14> I am writing a case on why this should be implimented
<g14> Every distro is root + swap
<Nafallo> probably for good reasons then :-)
<g14> It would take some thought on how to do it, but with planning, it would be much better
<Nafallo> personally I would rather see LVM used by default, but that's just me ;-)
<g14> but both debian and ubuntu have always had a slow and linear boot
<g14> I trust that they will both be moving to a dependency based init in the future
<Nafallo> ehm... how would the boot be faster with more partitions? ;-)
<Nafallo> more forks? more fsck?
<g14> noatime to /var and /tmp will cause less of the stat() function call
<g14> technically
<g14> I was using that as an example that just because something is and always has been doesn't mean it shouldn't change
<g14> for the better
<Amaranth> g14: sounds good, less IO is always better
<g14> less stat() calls during boot means less disk IO
<g14> Amaranth: Exactly
<g14> With / as one big partiton, it's not possible to do that
<Nafallo> well, when in laptop-mode / is noatime. why not make that permanent if it causes the delays of several microseconds? ;-)
<g14> I want to get as much input on this before I present it to the dev team and community to weight the pros and cons
<Nafallo> honestly, if you need those tweaks you would probably use gentoo :-P
<g14> No
<g14> Ubuntu is about the system that "just works TM"
<g14> You shouldn't have to worry abou it breaking, the devs made it very fault tolerant and secure
<g14> This is yet another way to do that
<g14> I mean Ubuntu has taken some of the best ideas from other distributions and rolled them into (in my opinion) the best desktop linux distro there is
<g14> Why not make it better?
<Lathiat> atime is usefull
<Lathiat> and things rely on it
<g14> Lathiat: That was just an example
<g14>  /home should be mounted with nosuid and nodev in my opinion
<g14> another very trivial change that adds quite a bit securitywise
<Lathiat> not really
<g14> I compromise your account as a worm and use mknod to create hda in your ~
<g14> I have raw access to the drive and all of your files
<g14> mounting /home with nodev would prevent that
<g14> And break nothing
<Nafallo> hmm, angry girlfriend here now :-P
<Lathiat> so you have raw access to my drive
<Lathiat> you fiddle with / instead
<Nafallo> gtg 4:41 here ;-)
<g14> Nafallo: Those are always fun
<Lathiat> g14: you can only mknod if your root, dude
<g14> Lathiat: I realize this
<Lathiat> same for suid files, you need to be the target user
* g14 is a computer security specialist
<Lathiat> i suppose suid has a better argument than nodev
<g14> ok
<Lathiat> since suid can be set on other users stuff
<g14> yes
<Lathiat> but still
<g14> I'm not trying to argue
<g14> What would it break?
<Lathiat> anyone that wants to use suid apps
<g14> in /home?
<Lathiat> alot of people dont even make /home separate
<g14> Lathiat: You didn't read the start of this convo did you
<g14> I'm not saying people should make /home seperate
<Lathiat> g14: you cant make it nosuid/nodev unless you do afaik
<g14> I am saying that the debian-installer should make /, /boot, /tmp, and /home seperate by default
<Lathiat> oh
<g14> *and /var
<Lathiat> i disagree with that, its annoying when you run out of space :)
<g14> for logs, that is important
<g14> Ok, here is another idea that would require more dev time to start up, but might be even more elegant
<Lathiat> g14: well really
<Lathiat> in a desktop systme its nto that critical
<Lathiat> and most important logs are root
<Lathiat> and so can eat the uh
<Lathiat> reserved space
<Lathiat> and if you need this security its not hard to add it yourself
<Lathiat> (is my point)
<g14> And when that reserved space is gone?
<Lathiat> g14: then your fucked
<Lathiat> but if you really care
<Lathiat> i.e. in a server system
<Lathiat> you can do this kind of thing yourself
<g14> I'm not talking about a server
<g14> I am talking about a desktop for some idiot I just moved from windows, what does ls do user
<Lathiat> g14: an idiot that moved from windows doesn't give a shit about his logs
<g14> You're not seeing the bigger picture
<g14> Yes
<g14> Linux on the desktop is taking off
<Lathiat> i see the big picture, im just trying to argue the point of security vs inconvenience
<g14> With increased usage, comes increased attacks against it
<Lathiat> g14: true
<g14> So secure by default is VERY important
<g14> And will be much more so in the future
<Lathiat> we're already very secure byb default
<Lathiat> cant write to system files etc
<g14> I don't think that this would be an inconveniance with proper implimentation
<Lathiat> g14: but all these features you mention have potential inconveniences
<g14> Lathiat: Ok, so this is all done with lvm
<Lathiat> partitioning up wastes space and users wonder where it went, nosuid/nodev can break things (well, not nodev s omuch)
<Lathiat> g14: mm, that could work better
<g14> Lathiat: A stupid easy tool is created to resize partitons
<Lathiat> still
<Lathiat> even a dumbshit desktop user, if comrpomised, the logs arent going to be much good
<g14> And a very simple explanation is given on why it improves security
<Lathiat> if the disk fills up, oops
<g14> Why do you keep mentioning the logs?
<Lathiat> thats why theres reserve space
<Lathiat> so you can still boot
<Lathiat> still write out stuff
<Lathiat> etc
<tseng> i would argue that it doesnt improve security that much
<Lathiat> g14: because thats a specific example you gave me
<g14> If / fills up with logs owned by root, the system doesn't do much
<Lathiat> g14: give me another
<g14> Did you hear my use case earlier?
<Lathiat> no i wasnt around
<Lathiat> i looked up but it was far too long to re-read ;p
<tseng> we are working hard at removing suid
<g14> You pop in a dapper cd and it detects that /home is it's own partiton. Among the default wipe entire drive options, you get an upgrade option
<g14> the "upgrade" option wipes the entire drive minus /home and everything boots with the same settings but a newer distro
<g14> That would be nice
<Lathiat> no that woudl suck
<tseng> dist-upgrade?
<g14> why?
<Lathiat> i lose all my custom installed stuff and settings
<Lathiat> in /etc, /usr/local
<Lathiat> and im a silly user
<Lathiat> so i installed vmware in /usr/bin
<tseng> apt already handles upgrades just fine
<g14> tseng: Try dist-upgrading from hoary to breezy with more than a handful of packages from multiverse installed
<Lathiat> thats the fault of the packages
<Lathiat> not the system
<g14> tseng: I don't think so. It will crap out on you. (I did it on 2 laptops and a desktop)
<g14> No, thats the fault of ubuntu to the users
<Lathiat> and probably caused by having extenral repos  installed for media stuff
<Lathiat> the fix is to fix the packages
<tseng> congratulations
<g14> no external repos
<tseng> fix the packages
<Lathiat> not to wipe the whole system on upgrade
<Lathiat> if you had specific breakages
<tseng> dont create some elaborate work around
<g14> Multiverse and univers
<Lathiat> please file bugs so we can fix it
<tseng> justified by bad packages
<g14> It was ubuntu-desktop
<g14> I had to manually remove it
<g14> Due to unmet dependencies
<Lathiat> then you broke something good
<Lathiat> what dependencies?
<g14> Also, when I dist-upgraded, usplash was not enabled
<Lathiat> please file bugs about these things
<g14> I installed the gstreamer plugins from multiverse and a ton of universe apps. dist-upgrade to breezy did not work without some hackery
<g14> ok
<Lathiat> we cant fix these things if no-one tells us about them :)
<Lathiat> we often dont notice this kind of thing
<Lathiat> as we run breezy throughout
<Lathiat> and upgrade tests are often done on base installs etc
<g14> I would think that no usplash from a clean updated hoary <--> breezy dist-upgrade would be noticed
<g14> Stock hoary with all of the updates. dist-upgrade to breezy and usplash doesn't show
<g14> I verified that twice
<Lathiat> if you didnt have ubuntu-desktop installed
<Lathiat> maybe you didnt get a new kernel
<g14> Stock install
<g14> nothing tweaked whatsoever
<ajmitch> afternoon
<g14> If no one agrees with me, I will drop it
<g14> ajmitch: evening :)
* ajmitch rages against libofx2
<ajmitch> I obviously didn't add in enough Replaces: before release
<ajmitch> oh well
<tseng> Replaces: *
<ajmitch> if only
* ajmitch only had Replaces: libofx1c2
<ajmitch> needed 1c102 as well for hoary->breezy magic
<Kyral> Word of advice, if you compile your own kernel and use NVidia, don't enable the NVidia Framebuffer
<Kyral> it locks the device so it can't be probed or something like that
<crimsun> that's a known issue from way back and is documented in the README..
<crimsun> (what Kyral mentioned RE: Nvidio drivers and rivafb.ko)
<swestres> Good morning, known universe
<sivang> morning
<swestres> How's it hangin?
<jsgotangco> hi
<zyga> hello
<siretart> hi
<sivang> hey siretart
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> hi
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> what's happening?
<\sh> ogra and suse are still sleeping and I have a headache ;)
<siretart> suse?
<ajmitch> yeah
<sivang> the cat
<sivang> :)
<ajmitch> \sh: why the headache? hungover? ;)
<sivang> ajmitch: they were out all night drinking and partying :)
<ajmitch> no surprise there..
<\sh> sivang: no..ogras gf :)
<\sh> the two cats are awake and running around, same applies to fred the dog ;)
<zakame> hi all
<sivang> hey zakame
<spayne> \sh: ping
<\sh> spayne: headache pong
<spayne> \sh: i got my GPG signed yesterday!
<spayne> \sh: is there a way to check my key is in the strong set?
<crimsun> sure, look in biglumber.com or in launchpad's
<zakame> spayne: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/ henkp/pgp/pathfinder/
<spayne> zakame: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=C137358E&STATS=statistics&TO=FC243F3C
<spayne> zakame: but it does exist on that key server, i uploaded it to subkeys.pgp.net and pgp.mit.edu last night
<spayne> any ideas?
<zakame> probably hasn't propagated yet :(
<spayne> zakame: i just don't know if i've done it right as i'm new to all this
<\sh> 24h to sync all servers
<spayne> i think the probles is here
<crimsun> yeah it usually takes a day at least
<spayne> to see if my key is in the strong set, it tells me to go to http://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/ka/current/C1/C137358E
<Lathiat> spayne: if it was only just done it'l take a bit for the key to propogate etc
<spayne> does this look ok though: http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xC137358E
<Lathiat> looks alright
<Lathiat> jon is signed by debian people etc so should be fine
<spayne> Lathiat: i just need to sign the CoC and i'm set for the next CC meeting
<ajmitch> and you have a clear & consistent record of work done?
<spayne> i do - yes
<spayne> i need to finish some bits off though
<spayne> i'm in the middle of packaging dopi and writing up stuff about Hula on the Wiki
<Lathiat> spayne: make a good wiki page
<Lathiat> write a bit about yourself
<Lathiat> what you do outside ubuntu
<spayne> Lathiat: done!
<Lathiat> and then link to as much info as possible
<Lathiat> like mailing list posts
<Lathiat> bug reports
<Lathiat> wiki contributions
<Lathiat> etc
<spayne> Lathiat: wiki.ubuntu.com/SebPayne
<Lathiat> spayne: url?
<Lathiat> ah wow
<sivang> spayne: what is dopi ? :)
<Lathiat> looks good!
<spayne> Lathiat: have i done enough though?
<Lathiat> spayne: link those packages to changelogs.ubuntu.com and/or the relevant breezy-changes archive post
<ajmitch> spayne: maybe
<spayne> sivang: a kick ass iPod transfer tool written by snorp
<spayne> sivang: i am packaging it for Dapper when it opens
<spayne> sivang: it is all ready to go (i think)
<crimsun> spayne: also list your GPG key on your wiki page
<sivang> spayne: koool :)
<spayne> crimsun: good idea :)
<sivang> crimsun: I thought having it registered in Launchpad is enough no?
<Lathiat> link to your launchpad page
<Lathiat> and update it with your gpg, ssh, etc
<Lathiat> and the CoC
<Lathiat> you sign the CoC in launchpad now
<Lathiat> so its relativel easy to do
<crimsun> be careful not to use a sign-only key atm, because launchpad will explode
<Lathiat> 'explode' ? :)
<crimsun> the infamous red oops page
<Lathiat> crimsun: why is that anyway\like, whats the difference
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> just doesnt handle them
<crimsun> right. It's being worked on.
<Lathiat> yep
<spayne> Lathiat: link my wiki page to launchpad page?
<sivang> crimsun: it cannot use keys that have seconday keys attached to them to sign to CoC ?
<spayne> i've updated wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SebPayne
<crimsun> sivang: it's a sign-only, yes.
<crimsun> #1972
<sivang> crimsun: I think I've used a non sign only key, and it worked for me. How can I check if my key is a sign only or not?
<spayne> Launchpad won't let me log in!
<spayne> when i log in, it still says "Not logged in"
<\sh> spayne: cookies enabled?
<ajmitch> it's a sign...
<spayne> yes
<sivang> Father Nathanial, War of the worlds :)
<crimsun> sivang: gpg --list-keys <your id>|grep ^pub
<crimsun> the character following the keysize denotes the type
<sivang> ok then,thanks
<spayne> i'm signing the CoC
<spayne> but when i run gpg --clearsign, it is using the wrong key
<spayne> how can i tell it which key to use
<crimsun> set default-key in ~/.gnupg/options
<crimsun> for example, I have: default-key C88ABDA3
<spayne> crimsun: is this ok: https://launchpad.net/people/spayne/
* ajmitch gets bored & culls a few more dead bugs
<Pygi> oh :P
<siretart> say, folks, where is dmix configured in breezy?
<ajmitch> good question ;)
<Pygi> try at #ubuntu :P
<ajmitch> either crimsun or #ubuntu would know
<ajmitch> most likely crimsun
<Pygi> anybody willing to help make Fubuntu? :)
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> I can't think of anything good starting with F
<Pygi> oh, well :P
<Pygi> its just Ubuntu with Fluxbox as a desktop
<\sh> fluxbox is a WM...
<Pygi> yup, yup..I know
<Pygi> you are awaken :P
<\sh> so which desktop do u want to use for fluxbox?
<Pygi> not sure yet :/
<\sh> kde or gnome?
<Pygi> rather gnome I think
<\sh> so no own desktop
<\sh> and another gnome based derivate...i can't think of it
<Pygi> :/
<Pygi> kde derivate also exists :/
<Pygi> Xfce also :/
<\sh> but gnome + kde + xfce are desktops
<\sh> kde has kwin as wm
<\sh> gnome as metacity as wm
<\sh> and xfce something else as wm
<Pygi> yes, I know it
<\sh> so fluxbox is only a replacement for the wm
<\sh> no own desktop
<Pygi> yes, I know
<\sh> changing the wm for gnome/kde/xfce to fluxbox is possible without derivating ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu
<\sh> gnome/kde/xfce are all integrated desktop environments and not only windowmanagers
<Pygi> true
<spayne> Pygi: do you have a reason for doing this?
<Pygi> I wanted to do something for Ubuntu community except translating, but I guess I'll find another way....
<Pygi> maybe fixing some bugs
<siretart> okay, /me is off for lunch. cu you later
<Pygi> bye
<\sh> Pygi: why not managing a small ubuntu distribution? only with xdm and a small fast wm?
<\sh> without a desktop?
<Pygi> Hm, maybe....but Ubuntu is towards simplicity....I doubt anyone non-technical would use something without desktop
<spayne> has anyone heard of a Gaim problem? where there is a text lag?
<\sh> text lag?
<Pygi> maybe ur slow connection??
<spayne> when you type a message, there is a lag of a few seconds before it appears
<spayne> it isn't me! it is a friend
<Pygi> oh, so \sh....is there a point doing something like that when probably not many people will use it?
<\sh> Pygi: why not doing it? it's a nice project...
<\sh> Pygi: but a better way to contribute to ubuntu and not wasting your time is to get hands on packaging and fixing bugs in packages and become a motu
<pef> hello
<Pygi> sorry, I was on lunch :/
<Pygi> ok, what needs to be packaged?
<\sh> Pygi: lets start with fixing universe bugs
<Pygi> ok, what are the bugs?
<\sh> launchpad.net -> bugs -> everything which is assigned to "MOTU" should be checked, fixed...
<Pygi> ok, I go there now
<\sh> Pygi: but we have to wait until dapper is open and the syncs for universe are done.
<\sh> but you can do some patching now :)
<\sh> Pygi: please have a look at wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResource w.u.c/PbuidlerHowto http://revu.tauware.de/
<Pygi> I am looking at it right now
<Pygi> just to ask....How to I assign myself to fix some bug?
<\sh> Pygi: u don't assign MOTU bugs to yourself
<\sh> Pygi: update them with your remarks, give us a location where the debdiff is...
<\sh> or attach the debdiff to the bug
<Pygi> ok, sorry for bothering, but I am new in trying to help Ubuntu :P I am only doing translation for now
<Pygi> Thanks
<pef> a package with ./configure --enable-debug=full in build target is wrong, isn't it ?
<eazel7> hi world
<eazel7> question, I have created a debian package for anjuta2
<ajmitch> ok, but there's anjuta 2.0.1 in debian experimental
<eazel7> but I didn't know how to separate the original anjuta source from the anjuta source that I used (I have applied a patch from anjuta cvs for the latest pango)
<ajmitch> which we may import
<eazel7> ajmitch, what pango is in anjuta2?
<ajmitch> I don't know :)
<eazel7> gonna check
<eazel7> ah, yeah, would be, well, I wasted my time hehehe
<eazel7> anyway, I wanna learn, but I couldn't learn about managing patches
<eazel7> I have applied a patch, how can I separate the patch from the orig.tar.gz?
<Lathiat> \s	pe	no
<Lathiat> pef: debhelper strips packages itself
<Lathiat> ergh
<Lathiat> my ssh was dead
<eazel7> ehm, gonna go or my head's gonna be cutted down by an axe
<eazel7> see you later
<ajmitch> night all
<Lathiat> night ajmitch
<Lathiat> ajmitch: btw im def coming to lca
<Lathiat> got all my stuff sorted
<ajmitch> excellent!
<ajmitch> you managed to scrounge up some $ for flights then?
<Lathiat> and i was acceped to do an avahi talk if you didnt know
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh i got travel assistance
<ajmitch> sweet
<ajmitch> I'll try & make it to that one
<ajmitch> & not heckle too much ;)
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> im eagerly awaiting the program
<Lathiat> theyr ejust sorting out speaker confirmations etc
<Lathiat> so they can notify their backups
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> will be good to see you in dunedin
<Lathiat> yeh
* ajmitch will put aside some beer money :)
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> i'll actually be 18 ;p haha
<ajmitch> yeah I know
<ajmitch> not that it'd matter if you came up to drink at my flat :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: not that its ever matterred :)
* Lathiat coughs
<Lathiat> in 2003.. :)
<Lathiat> more like 2002 actually
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> doesn't surprise me somehow
<Lathiat> pub crawl through fremantle, got stopped at 1 place of like 9 :)
<Lathiat> some guy just said he was my father hah
<ajmitch> haha
<Lathiat> 1 palce refused jamesh
<Lathiat> because he was wearing sandles
<Lathiat> but was happy letting me in ;p
<sivang> crimsun: I executed the list-keys command you've pasted here, and saw my key on the list
<sivang> crimsun: does it mean that its more then "sign only" key?
<Lathiat> sivang: if it worked in launchpad
<Lathiat> then its not
<sivang> Lathiat: ok, since it worked there :)
<sivang> Lathiat: why would like to create more then sign only keys? do you need those for uploads?
<Lathiat> no just launchpad choks on them
<Lathiat> sign+encrypt is default
<Lathiat> sign-only isnt
<sivang> ah, then I created the default :)
<lifeless> Lathiat: launchpad has two separate codepaths
<Lathiat> lifeless: hrm?
<lifeless> Lathiat: email and coc checking are different code paths
<lifeless> coc checking handles any key type
<Lathiat> lifeless: right, i actually meant coc checking
<lifeless> email checking, I field a bug on yesterday
<Lathiat> oh?
<lifeless> well, coc checking should handle anything these days
<Lathiat> so what is it then?
<Lathiat> just adding the key to your account?
<lifeless> what is what ?
<Lathiat> that chokes on sign-only keys
<lifeless> the only thing I know of is email checking
<lifeless> I have signing only subkeys
<lifeless> there *was* a bug in coc checking back in july
<lifeless> but its been fixed for -ages-
<Lathiat> hm ok
<lifeless> but I think we keep having this discussion
<lifeless> so - if you see it fail to handle a key, file a bug
<lifeless> it should accept *anything* gpg will accept.
<Lathiat> hm ok
<lifeless> otherwise .. and please, I'm not meaning to be insulting .. dont spread fud :)
<Lathiat> well yeh
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> thats just what others told me
<Lathiat> ;p
<lifeless> ah.
<lifeless> well, get them to reproduce it and file bugs
<Lathiat> i'll stat spreading the anti-fud
<lifeless> they *will* get fixed, gpg is pretty essential to webs of trust
<lifeless> and launchpad cannot be saying 'please create a new key cause' :0
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> if someone signs my key
<Lathiat> and then i add a new uid
<Lathiat> does that affect anything
<Lathiat> versus not having had it on their before
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> the new uid is not signed
<lifeless> so it will not be usable as verification of email addresses
<lifeless> and you may want to tell lp to refresh your key, by readding it.
<Lathiat> i see
<sivang> lifeless: hey, 'sup? I knew it was alright :) I think I specifically created a non sign only key :)
<Lathiat> sivang: by accepting the default? ;p
<sivang> Lathiat: exactly :)
<lifeless> sivang: heya
<Lathiat> how can i make gpg export my secret key
<sivang> lifeless: I have some question to ask ya, in private if I may :)
<Lathiat> ah, --secret
<Lathiat> that was hard
<Lathiat> lifeless: if i had a uid, do i need to like, sign it or something
<sivang> Lathiat: what does --secret entails?
<Lathiat> sivang: exporting the secret key rather than the public key
<lifeless> Lathiat: if you have a uid, its signed by you when you create it, and by other people when they verify your key
<Lathiat> lifeless: ah ok
<Lathiat> sivang: ok i lied, it doesnt
<sivang> Lathiat: ah, so you need to keep that export secret then :)
<sivang> Lathiat: why would you want to export it? for backup purposes?
<Lathiat> import it on another machine
<Lathiat> once out of boredom i tried to recursively get all signatures i had in my keyring
<Lathiat> after making a 32M or so gpg database it crashed
<Lathiat> ahh, --export-secret-keys
<sistpoty> hi folks
<xophEr> is there a working flash player for amd64?
<\sh> standalone or in ff?
<xophEr> in ff
<\sh> this will be a problem
<\sh> but standalone is swf-player...it could work in ff...
<xophEr> Ive read about gplflash, you heard about it?
<xophEr> hmm, I installed gplflash, and 'wohoo' I can see those annoying flash-ads again \o/
<\sh> hmm...never used it..;)
<xophEr> seems to be a bit buggy though . :)
<\sh> WE NEED TO UPDATE LIBOFX*
<\sh> ajmitch: ping get up dude
<sivang> can I Help with anything ? :)
<\sh> no..I'll have to do it somehow...or ajmitch ;)
<freeflying> hi you all
<siretart> \sh: whats up with libofx?
<sivang> \sh: ah, that's a main stuff?
<\sh> no it's universe stuff
<\sh> but broken because of wrong replaces
<sivang> but probaslby far complex...
<siretart> \sh: do you have a malone bugnr for reference?
<\sh> siretart: ubuntu-users ML ;)
<siretart> ah, I see
<dseomn> I'm not sure if this is a good place to mention it, but https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/scim/+bug/2565 seems to be a really big problem for a lot of people.
<\sh> dseomn: it's not libofx, no?
<siretart> its about scim
<dseomn> I don't think that's related, it's not a dep
<freeflying> dseomn: you can use the latest release of scim
<\sh> waterloo waterloo
<dseomn> freeflying: you mean from their site?
<freeflying> I have built it this afternoon
<freeflying> you can try it from here  http://svn.ubuntu.org.cn/ubuntu-cn/dists/breezy/main/binary-i386/scim/
<dseomn> so it'll be in dapper when it opens?
<dseomn> thanks
<freeflying> I don't know
<siretart> freeflying: does that package work for you?
<freeflying> yeah
<freeflying> I just put it on our svn server for testing
<siretart> hm, new upstream
<freeflying> if there iare no errors ,we will put it to our backports
<siretart> hm. just installed scim 1.0.2-3 from breezy, but I could not reproduce that crash
<dseomn> I only get the crash with scim-setup, did you try that?
<siretart> yes, I get a nice gtk menu
<siretart> gtk app, even
<siretart> no segfault
<dseomn> what modules do you have installed?
<siretart> I just did a apt-get install scim
<Riddell> freeflying: siretart is your man for REVU accounts
<siretart> ah, hi Riddell ;)
<freeflying> thanks you all
* dseomn removes scim-m17n and sees if it still sigsegvs
<dseomn> wfm now, looks like the problem is in the module
<freeflying> scim-1.0.2 works well for me ubder hoary and breezy
<spacey_ki> i have segfaults with scim
<spacey_ki> Loading Setup Module pinyin-imengine-setup
<spacey_ki> Segmentation fault
<spacey_ki> when i run scim-setup
<spacey_ki> its occurs in several modules afiak
<spacey_ki> afaik
<spacey_ki> siretart, install all scim modules you can find and try again :)
<pef> to delete CVS dirs from an upstream tarball, what's the best way ? adding a get-orig-source to rules, or deleting them by hand and notice this into README.debian ?
<spayne> what is the command to rebuild a package
<spayne> i have apt-get source it
<dseomn> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<spayne> i am building acroread on PPC
<dseomn> isn't acroread binary only?
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> so that wont work
<spayne> why is there no PPC package?
<Lathiat> because there is no binary for PPC
<siretart> spayne: ask adobe
<Lathiat> its a binary by adobe
<Lathiat> its not open source
<dseomn> spayne: is there a reason evince doesn't work for you?
<spayne> it works, just some PDFs aren't rendered correctly
<dseomn> if the pdfs are freely downloadable or allow redistribution, file a bug against evince with the pdf files
<eazel7> hi ppl
<eazel7> I have prepared a debianized sources, but now I need apply it a patch, how can I do?
<janimo> hi eazel7
<janimo> can you vbe more specific?
<janimo> what to you mean by neet to apply it a patch?
<eazel7> I have prepared a folder ready to do dpkg-buildpackage, but before I do I need to apply a patch to the sources, how can I do so it get's incorporated to the diff.gz?
<janimo> well a clean way involves using dpatch
<janimo> it uses a directory called patches under debian/
<eazel7> aha
<janimo> which are applied when building teh binary deb
<janimo> but stay separated from the source
<eazel7> great, that's one thing I need, I'm gonna read about dpatch
<janimo> I have not made packages using dpatch only saw them so you may want to read up on it
<janimo> ok good luck :)
<eazel7> thanks
<janimo> http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
<janimo> written by one of the old time motus
<eazel7> hehehehehe
<eazel7> thanks JanC
<eazel7> janimo
<eazel7> JanC, sorry, I didn't want to wake you up =P
<eazel7> I dislike how xchat manages the tab but in a case insensitive way... =/
<janimo> eazel7, you're welcome
<thierry> when I try to dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -S
<thierry>  a package I get this :  debian/rules:5: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/gnome.mk: No such file or directory
<thierry> this happens only with the new packages... what Do I need to make it work?
<Hirion> thierry: do you have cdbs installed?
<sivang> -+
<ivoks> hi
<thierry> Hirion : well I blocked by this bug : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/gnucash/+bug/3145 so I can't install anything until this one is fixed or if I get a workaround
<thierry> Hirion : so if you have a solution for me...
<Hirion> hm, I have no idea
<thierry> I'm trying to uninstall gnucash and gnucash-common... maybe it will do
<thierry> Hirion : yep this is working...
<Hirion> ok
<thierry> thanks
<Hirion> hehe no problem, but I did nothing. I am too tired... ;)
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> no one no where :)
<Nafallo> ssssh, we're idling :-P
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> well
<ivoks> you guys know we released broken banshee? :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: we're not alone
<ivoks> or, to be more honest, broken gtk-sharp
<Treenaks> *points at suse 10*
<ivoks> i know :)
<ivoks> damn applet
<ivoks> apple
<ivoks> first samba, now this
<Nafallo> did we?
<ivoks> they are taking steps of microsoft...
<Kyral> its only broken if someone finds a bug ;P
<ivoks> Nafallo: yup, gtk-sharp doesn't work if one uses ipod with itunes5
<ivoks> it isn't broken
<ivoks> but there is a certain incomaptibility
<ivoks> so..
<ivoks> i wanted to ask
<ivoks> if i/we/someone creates newer packages
<Nafallo> then gtk-sharp is golden and the ipodlibs are broken?
<ivoks> should we put them in updates?
<Kyral> They will go into REVU for Dapper ;P
<ivoks> Nafallo: i said gtk-sharp? lol sorryu
<ivoks> ipod-sharp
<Nafallo> well, that's another deal
<Nafallo> blame slomo ;-)
<ivoks> heh :)
<ivoks> what's that tool to update old source with newer source, preserving debian subdir?
<Yagisan> ivoks: uupdate ?
<Nafallo> uscan is even better :-)
<ivoks> Yagisan: right! thanks
<Yagisan> bah - it's 2:50am, if I can even remember what leter it starts with I'm doing well
* Yagisan sighs, still getting badsig from the archives
<Nafallo> Yagisan: breezy-updates?
<Yagisan> Nafallo: yes
<Nafallo> I can reproduce that :-P
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I bugged -devel yesterday about that
<ivoks> yup, me too
<ivoks> this is bad...
<ivoks> we are discussing how to go enterprise, and we have broken archives
<ivoks> :(
<Yagisan> I'd like them to fix it, I won't upgrade my boxes until it's fixed
<Yagisan> as far as I'm concerned badsig == possible compromise
<ivoks> we should have team that will take care of archives - only
<ivoks> Yagisan: right
<Yagisan> most of you know what my day job is - so I'm suitably paranoid
<Nafallo> guys... I can't reproduce that anymore :-P
* Yagisan sighs - this isn't good for promoting ubuntu at all
<Yagisan> Nafallo: 7 out of 8 updates did it for me
<Yagisan> Nafallo: update 5 was the only clear one
<Nafallo> 3/3 are clean for me now :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: you need more boxes and/or chroots to update
<Nafallo> huh?
<Nafallo> nafallo@darkelf:~ $ sudo apt-get update && ssh ogre sudo apt-get update && sudo pbuilder update
<Nafallo> will that suffice?
<Nafallo> :-P
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I have a lot of chroots and boxes - the more you update, the better your chance of getting badsig
<Yagisan> I should go to bed, I'll try again in a few hours
<Yagisan> night all
<Nafallo> 3/3 again for what's it worth :-P
<spayne> aloha!
<Nafallo> morning
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I hate you :-P (what's your mirror, it works better then mine)
<Nafallo> Yagisan: localhost:9999 ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: apt-proxy
<Nafallo> se.archive.ubuntu.com as first entry :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I use apt-cacher
<Nafallo> I used apt-cacher before I saw apt-proxy was more likely to move to main ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I set up apt-proxy and instead of 15 mins no proxy to build a pbuilder
<Yagisan> Yagisan: it went to 50 with a full cache
* Yagisan hates middle mouse button
<Nafallo> odd
<Nafallo> works here though :-P
<Yagisan> Nafallo: apt-cacher took 5
<Yagisan> Nafallo: apt-proxy seems to unpack every archive on the fly
<Yagisan> Nafallo: the proxy box here is sub 300Mhz
<Nafallo> I use my laptop, http://www.magicalforest.se/darkelf
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I'd file a bug, but I think is expected behaviour
<Nafallo> hmm, looks like I have all packages in cache already :-P
<Yagisan> Nafallo: slap-happy is it - it's a lot quicker then my proxy
<Nafallo> hihi, that's more to describe the highload I'll put on her at times ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: try running apt-proxy on ogre, that should be similar to my proxy
<Nafallo> did you miss the part of "main only!"? ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: no - I thought you were mr universe security :)
<Nafallo> I might have been, that's why I know the state of that project ;-)
* Yagisan has a different definition of main
* Yagisan thinks main is everything he needs to get the job done :)
<Yagisan> Catch you later Nafallo, I've got to drag myself to bed now
<Nafallo> oki, say hello from me :-)
<Nafallo> and gnight :-)
<ivoks> bye all
<pef> if someone can have a look ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=794
<pef> have to go, bye !
<dooglus> I used "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" to build a package.  then I changed the source a little.  I don't think I need to "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" again, since that will try to re-apply the patches.  so how do I rebuild now?
<KraetziChriZ> Hi Guys
<KraetziChriZ> After Upgrading to KDE 3.4.3 the KDE/QT-Tool "klibido" is a littlebit broken -> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/download.php?id=153 -> anyone know what there is going wrong?
<KraetziChriZ> (too many menues..)+
<ajmitch> \sh_away: sure, I obviously wasn't thinking straight with libofx - I tested the upgrade from libofx1c2 & forgot libofx1c102
<ajmitch> or something like that ;)
<slomo> hi ajmitch :) any comments to my packages? and how was your weekend?
<ajmitch> quiet weekend
<ajmitch> didn't really use my computer over the weekend, sorry :)
<slomo> oh, no problem ;) mine wasn't even on this weekend so nm :) anyway... i'm soooo tired ;) gn8 everybody
<ajmitch> bye :)
<mbreit> good evening!
<mbreit> and bye slomo ;)
<siretart> gn8 slomo
<siretart> hi mbreit!
<mbreit> hey siretart
<\sh> remoins
<mbreit> moin \sh
<\sh> hey mbreit
<\sh> ajmitch: ping we need to fix/update somehow libofx
<ajmitch> \sh: :P
<ajmitch> \sh: I was just pinging you about it 15min ago
<\sh> think i have to reactivate my message backlog with dircproxy
<\sh> hey ogra
<ajmitch> yeah
<\sh> ajmitch: we have to let it approve from mdz or kamion
<ajmitch> yup
<\sh> ajmitch: we missed at least libofx0c102
<ajmitch> it only needs extra Replaces, again
<\sh> the version which was in hoary
<ogra> \sh, wow, you were quick
<ajmitch> I at least got the Replaces on the right package, I only had 1 old libofx version on my disk though :)
<ajmitch> morning ogra
<ogra> evening ajmitch
<\sh> ogra: 19:27 - 21:23 to sindorf and then 10 mins walking :)
<mbreit> hey orga
<ogra> hey mbreit
<\sh> ogra: but the train was full of very very strange people
<mbreit> hmm... i think i will go to bed as well... the lectures at university are starting again tomorrow, so i have to get up early
<ogra> \sh, i think there wasa race at huerburgring today... i had a traffic jam on my way back
<mbreit> so good night ;)
<ogra> *nuerburgring
<\sh> ogra: can be....and some icehockey games in cologne...central station was overcrowded by special units and police
<ajmitch> \sh: so libofx should be a quick fix, it just needs approved :)
<KraetziChriZ> hmmm anyone have a minute to look at my problem with klibido? :|
<\sh> ogra: and thx again for the nice stay :)
<\sh> KraetziChriZ: whats the problem? as i said, I think jre brought it in now
<KraetziChriZ> \sh: hmm the depend-problems are my thing.. but have a look at the tool:
<KraetziChriZ> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/download.php?id=153
<ogra> \sh, thanks for the nice visit :) suse says thanks too :)
<\sh> ajmitch: so libofx2 -> replaces: the whole chain of binary packages and the same for libofx-dev?
<ajmitch> \sh: whatever works ;)
<KraetziChriZ> i have everything 2 times... it works.. it is doing what the tool shoud do.. but there is something bad O_o
<\sh> KraetziChriZ: what?
<KraetziChriZ> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/download.php?id=153 <- link to an screenshot
<KraetziChriZ> my english is bad.. sry.. :\
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe as i said this afternoon to infinity it's our waterloo
<KraetziChriZ> \sh: the entrys menues.. and the context-menu are cloned.. have a look..
<\sh> KraetziChriZ: u mean the color bars? i don't think it has something to do with klibido
<\sh> oh
<KraetziChriZ> on the screenshot there is the button "Move to top" 2 times...
<KraetziChriZ> and everything is there "2 times"
<\sh> u blacked out the pr0n :) ok..see the problem
<KraetziChriZ> there is something wrong O_o
<KraetziChriZ> but the tool is downloading.. hehe... 10gigs this day.. works perfect.. :D
<KraetziChriZ> nice new pr0n :P
<\sh> KraetziChriZ: i'll check it tomorrow...when i'm with my (k)ubuntu laptop again...here on this small baby i don't have kde installed
<KraetziChriZ> small baby.. hehe.. :D
<\sh> ogra: the next I have to get a barrell of scottish whiskey ,)
<\sh> time even
<ogra> lol
<KraetziChriZ> \sh: hehe.. whiskey is good =)
<\sh> ogra: and suse can try the rum...if she likes it :)
<ogra> susus laughs :)
<ogra> \sh, the winter here is cold and unfriendly, a hot grog is graet then :)
<\sh> ogra: hahaha...so u should by an oven :)
<ogra> i'll do next week... let me find one first :)
<\sh> ogra: and we forgot to hang the cupboard
<\sh> grmpf
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i'll manage it alone, dont worry
<\sh> ogra: well..i wanted to some real work...:)
<\sh> do even
<ogra> yes, but i have to myve my butt a bit after 2 months of edubuntu development, so its fine to do it aone
<ogra> *move
<\sh> hmm..now i have to think of your gf.."your butt is ok...but your titties..." *runsveryfast*
<\sh> sry couldn
<\sh> 't resist
<ogra> heh
<\sh> but yes..i know the feeling...i need some real work as well...didn't do anything during the last months...think i have to go to a gym
<\sh> so last cigarette
<siretart> for ever?
<siretart> *g*
<\sh> ajmitch: do u want to do libofx or should I...I wanted to play with some new pykde stuff tomorrow
<\sh> siretart: for heavens sake no ;)
<siretart> \sh: hehe
<\sh> siretart: if i would stop smoking now, then it's possible to survive my 65th birthday and then? i won't get any pension
<siretart> hey!
<siretart> don't be that pessimistic!
<\sh> this was ... sarcastic :)
<siretart> makes bad karma
<\sh> -100 on malone?
<\sh> ok.guys
<\sh> sleeping time...
<siretart> gn8 \sh
<\sh> night everybody
<Tonio-> hello
<ajmitch> hi
<sivang> hey
<sivang> hey ajmitch , what's cracking?
<ajmitch> monday morning, at work
<crimsun> sivang: when you --list-key <your id>, you should see a sub
<sivang> crimsun: let me try again :)
<crimsun> sivang: if you don't see at least one sub, then it's a sign-only
<ajmitch> and you probably see a few uids :)
* ajmitch currently has 5 uids on his key
<Lathiat> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> yo
<Lathiat> ajmitch: looked at stone's key? :)
<ajmitch> how are you this morning? :)
<ajmitch> no?
<Lathiat> good
<ajmitch> what key is this?
<Lathiat> 3CED7EFD
<sivang> crimsun: ok, it has two keys
<Lathiat> hrm wrong key
<Lathiat> that ones revoked
<ajmitch> long bug threads on SCIM & acroread - they look to be possible candidates for breezy-updates
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-22
<Diablo-D3> hey all
<Diablo-D3> is the branch for breezy+1 open yet?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> I heard Tuesday, but I dont' know
<Diablo-D3> blargh
* Diablo-D3 needs apt-get updates!
<tseng> make a sid chroot
<Diablo-D3> by updates, I meant ones that wernt from sid ;)
<Diablo-D3> sid is still soooo behind
<tseng> you dont need to use the chroot
<Kyral> but thier VLC works ;P
<tseng> just update it daily
<tseng> for your fix
<Diablo-D3> I dont use vlc
<Diablo-D3> tseng: lol
<LaserJock> yeah, I keep apt-get update but there is nothing. I am starting to get withdrawl symptoms ;-)
<Diablo-D3> yargh, backports is dead
<tseng> you could also all switch to gentoo
<Diablo-D3> tseng: lol gentoo
<tseng> updating daily is FUN
<Diablo-D3> tseng: funroll-loops.org
* Kyral WHACKS tseng with an Electrified Flaming Radioactive \____/-=== Frying Pan
<tseng> figuring out how to fix it
<tseng> even more fun
<Kyral> Thats for saying I should use Gentoo ;P
<Diablo-D3> hrm
<Diablo-D3> I wonder if breezy has a breezy-updates distro
<Diablo-D3> er source
<Diablo-D3> or whatever
<tseng> yes
* Diablo-D3 probably should grab from that
<Nafallo> repo :-)
<Diablo-D3> yes, repo
<Diablo-D3> low caffiene
* Diablo-D3 's light blinks
<tseng> mmm caffeine
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I wonder when I last drank something with caffeine in it :-P
<Kyral> Anyone know how to use Apt-Spy in Ubuntu?
<Kyral> its only grabbing Debian mirrors...
<Diablo-D3> we dont need apt-spy
<Diablo-D3> we dont have half a billion mirrors
<Kyral> lol
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> maybe I should remove dapper from my sources.list :-P
<Kyral> I'm just waiting until my college syncs its Ubuntu Mirror back to Breezy
<Kyral> after some idiot wiped it out ;P
<Diablo-D3> why do you even use your local mirror?
<Diablo-D3> use us.archives.ubuntu.com or whatever
<Kyral> Because its on campus
<Kyral> within the LAN
<Diablo-D3> bleh
<Diablo-D3> 2 updated packages
<Diablo-D3> how sad.
<Kyral> hence hyper quick speeds ;P
<Diablo-D3> blah 2 worthless updates
<Diablo-D3> just a version number bump
<Kyral> I should recompile my kernel again...
<Nafallo> looks like us.archive.ubuntu.com is still in England.
<Kyral> IPTables is kinda gonky
<crimsun> it's necessary for smooth upgrades
<Diablo-D3> lol
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: Yeah I know
<Diablo-D3> DAMNIT I NEED MORE UNSTABLE!
* Diablo-D3 shakes
<Kyral> crimsun, didja look at the VLC data I sent you?
<crimsun> Kyral: I'm getting around to it; I know there's a possible fix from upstream svn
<Kyral> okay
<crimsun> trying to square away my own Breezy system atm
<Kyral> Xine is working for now...
<Kyral> I'm trying to make the most streamlined kernel I can for my system ;P
<Diablo-D3> actually
<Diablo-D3> all I want is a working lsm-realtime module
<Nafallo> wow.
<Nafallo> we have an avahi team :-P
<Diablo-D3> a what who what now?
<Nafallo> rock :-)
<crimsun> isn't Lathiat the upstream? ;-)
<Nafallo> yes? :-)
<sivang> Nafallo: what's avahi ?
<Diablo-D3> whats breezy+1 called again?
<crimsun> dapper
<Nafallo> sivang: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
<Nafallo> :-)
<Diablo-D3> oh yeah, thats right
<Nafallo> dapper drake :-)
<Diablo-D3> in the mean time
* Diablo-D3 listens to Yoko Kanno, Warsaw Philiharmonic Orchestra & Chorus - Dance of Curse II
<tseng>  please dont do that in here
<Diablo-D3> I wish I could edit what the chorus says
<Diablo-D3> "Ubuntu! Ubuntu! Ubuntuuuu Liiiinuuuuuuxxxxx!"
<Diablo-D3> tseng: shush, I was setting up the stage for a joke.
<tseng> you can make jokes after you make useful contributions
<tseng> thats my rule
<ogra> :)
<Diablo-D3> filing bugs are useful cotnrubtions.
<tseng> ogra lives!
<ogra> sure
<Diablo-D3> and converting the known universe to ubuntu is a useful contribution too
<ogra> i cared for \sh the whole weekend and relaxed a bit :)
<tseng> great
<Diablo-D3> I'm like a zambatou to gentoo's cavalry
<tseng> sigh
<Diablo-D3> or a orbital bombardment to redhat's resistance
<Kyral> Kernel recompile GO
<Diablo-D3> <kernel recompile GET>
<Kyral> Anyone know if enabling the "Use 4kb kernel stacks instead of 8kb" option has any performance impact?
<Diablo-D3> it increases performance
<Kyral> niiiic
<Kyral> e
<Diablo-D3> not as much as you think
<Kyral> I don't think I have any modules...
<Diablo-D3> it allows the kernel to only allocate one memory block for the stack instead of 2.
<Diablo-D3> after extended periods of time, memory sometimes becomes so fragmented that finding 2 continuous blocks of memory is hard
<Kyral> like if you don't reboot for a while
<Diablo-D3> yeah
<Diablo-D3> or you just trash memory a lot
<Kyral> which is good because my computer usually goes weeks without a reboot
<Diablo-D3> you usually see this after months
<Kyral> I'm trying to make the slimmest kernel I can
<Diablo-D3> that wont make it much slimmer.
<Kyral> the stock Ubuntu Kernels run about 50 MB (Kernel + Initrd + Modules)
<Diablo-D3> yeah, which is unfortunate
<Kyral> I got mine down to about 7 MB (Kernel + Modules) last night
<Diablo-D3> but the savings from 4kbstacks is less than a meg
<Diablo-D3> you probably cant even measure it in 100k
<Diablo-D3> this only effects kernel stacks, not userland stacks
<Diablo-D3> iirc it effects stuff like the kernel's nfs server the most
<Kyral> which I/O Schedular should I use...
<Diablo-D3> ubuntu chooses a good default.
<Kyral> all three are enabled thats why
<Diablo-D3> they arent very big.
* ajmitch returns
<Nafallo> morning ajmitch :-)
<Diablo-D3> remember, modules arent very big
<ajmitch> wow, a great lack of useful discussion in here again :)
<Kyral> Its not about that
<Diablo-D3> btw, how much memory do you have?
<Kyral> I just want to create a slimlined kernel
<Kyral> SYSTEM i686 Ubuntu (Debian) GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.13.4-GNUGenerationCustom, LIBC 2.3.5, GNU Bash Shell | CPU AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2700+, 2167Mhz, 256KB Cache, 4339 BMIPs | MEM 179/500MB RAM Used, 2/1333MB Swap Used | STORAGE 4.7GB ReiserFS, 6.5GB Ext3, 9.4GB ReiserFS, 10MB TmpFS, 154GB ReiserFS, 251MB TmpFS, 266GB ReiserFS, 603MB ISO9660 | STATS Uptime 0.73d, Users 1(2), Procs 91(27043), Load 0.46 | X11 1280x1024x24bit | http://au
<Diablo-D3> then wtf.
<Diablo-D3> tmpfs                1015M   13M 1002M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.12-9-k7/volatile
<Diablo-D3> thats not 15 megs.
<Diablo-D3> er not 50
<Kyral> not the volitle ones
<Kyral> the Module dir itself for the kernel
<Diablo-D3> except thats not loaded into memory.
<Diablo-D3> or rather, it doesnt stay in memory
<Kyral> still
<Kyral> if I don't need it I don't want it ;P
<Diablo-D3> -_-
<Kyral> I'm bored, sheesh...
<Diablo-D3> then go use micro-ubuntu or something
<Kyral> nah
<Kyral> I have a ****load of diskspace
<Diablo-D3> okay, ignore what I said earlier
<Diablo-D3> realtime does work now
<Diablo-D3> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/realtime-lsm/+bug/2092
<Diablo-D3> can someone close that bug?
<Diablo-D3> crapola
<Diablo-D3> jack now hates realtime-lsm
<Diablo-D3> ugh there we go
* Diablo-D3 had to edit /etc/realtime
<Diablo-D3> er /etc/default/realtime
<Kyral> Anyone know what kernel module Athereos based wireless cards use?
<zul> airo i think
<Kyral> eh?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Amaranth> hey
* Amaranth has an extremely prealpha version of smeg 0.8 done
<Amaranth> it basically has everything 0.7.5 did, plus working with the System menu
<Kyral> cool
<Kyral> I'm cooling my jets until Dapper goes open
<Kyral> Hey if someone could like review my DCBU before like the end of the month (MIDTERM!) it would be cool. Then I could mark it as complete in time for the midterm grade ;P
<LaserJock> hi bddebia, what's up?
<LaserJock> *bddebian
<ajmitch> it's the bddebian!!
<Kyral> hmm, I think I shall master IPTables and then create a (simple) frontend
<ajmitch> will he grace us mortals with words? :)
* Kyral WHACKS bddebian with an Electrified Flaming Radioactive \____/-=== Frying Pan
<Kyral> He should now ;P
<ajmitch> Kyral: yeah, that's pretty silly
<LaserJock> maybe we haven't made enough sacrifices ;-)
<Kyral> I know
<Kyral> but I get bored
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> Damn, what'd I do now?? :-)
<Kyral> Oh that was just to get your attention ;P
<Kyral> If you had done something I would have pulled out my much more annoying and childish alias ;P
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's either that or we humbly grovel at your feet
<LaserJock> bddebian: I've got karma (33). Whoo hoo!!
* ajmitch will be far far behind everyone in karma soon
<LaserJock> ajmitch: not me
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nice, good work :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: baah, you probably have more than me already.
<bddebian> ajmitch: Grovel at my feet?? Hahahahaha :-)
<Nafallo> I knew it! :-P
<Nafallo> 27 more than me.
<Kyral> 17 Karma ;P
<Amaranth> i'm pretty sure i have 0 launchpad karma
<Kyral> I've been busy with school stuff ;P
<Amaranth> all the bugs i can deal with are in main :)
* Nafallo is a translator aswell ;-)
<Kyral> psh bastard ;P
* bddebian hasn't hit 1000 yet :-(
<LaserJock> well, I kinda did it sneaky like. I found some bugs that were already fixed but I got to mark them fixed or rejected
<bddebian> I'll get to work this week :-)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I scored my first changelog entry to ;P
<Amaranth> all i know is english
<ajmitch> considering that I'll be away for probably 1/4 of the dapper cycle at least, then I don't think it'll be any challenge to get more than I do
* ajmitch might as well give up now :)
<Amaranth> people who are listed as package maintainers should get extra points :)
<Lathiat> heh
<LaserJock> totally
<bddebian> ajmitch: Away??
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2772 <---Should I request this be fixed in upstream?
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, AWAY
<bddebian> ajmitch: Where ya going, if you don't mind me asking?
<ajmitch> so I should give up on MOTUness
<Lathiat> Kyral: well, it really needs more investigation
<Kyral> Lathiat, its confirmed. VERY confirmed ;P
<ajmitch> bddebian: canadia, initially
<ajmitch> then up north for christmas & a couple of weeks following
<ajmitch> then LCA in late jan
<Lathiat> Kyral: doesn't mean its not specific to us, try latest upstream, etc
<ajmitch> the weeks add up
<bddebian> ajmitch: Dang.. :-)
<Kyral> Lathiat, I would, IF it would install
<bddebian> ajmitch: And I won't allow you to give up on MOTUness ;-P
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/3191 <--- Should I mark as Rejected?
<bddebian> ajmitch: You are my Master after all ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: we have approx 25 week development cycle, and I'll be away for at least 7
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, I'm the master of nothing
<LaserJock> is .desktop files not going to be on the MOTU meeting agenda?
<bddebian> ajmitch: No, you are the Master of The Universe ;-P
<ajmitch> LaserJock: add it if you want
<ajmitch> LaserJock: if it's something you think we need to talk about at a meeting
<crimsun> Kyral: #2772 has not been fixed upstream.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: was it discussed last time? I see that the agenda changed. I though it was on the next one
<crimsun> Kyral: #3191 will NOT be fixed anytime soon, because it's a wxwidgets2.6 issue.
<Kyral> so should I request fix in upstream?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm not worthy of the MOTU title :)
<Kyral> so 2772 = Upstream Fix and 3191 = Rejected?
<crimsun> ajmitch: bah, you're going ubuntu.com ;-)
<ajmitch> crimsun: excuse me?
<crimsun> ajmitch: aren't you joining the core dev team?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh stop it, you're starting to sound like me :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: precisely!
<ajmitch> crimsun: joined, but what difference does that make?
<crimsun> ajmitch: I think that speaks a bit about "worthiness" ;-)
<ajmitch> crimsun: and all of us motus have ubuntu.com addresses (or should)
<crimsun> ajmitch: yeah, I meant ubuntu.com->core dev team
<crimsun> sorry, kinda slow tonight
<Kyral> if no one has any objections I'm gonna mark those as I said I would...
<crimsun> Kyral: it's fine by me.
<crimsun> (I would have rejected all complaints about it being compiled against wxwindows2.4 anyhow)
* bddebian doesn't have ubuntu.com address
* Nafallo bzr branches mercurial :-)
<Lathiat> bddebian: not a member?
<ajmitch> crimsun: right, and core dev team != employed, of course :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: true
<Kyral> done
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but I think it still speaks to your worthyness of the MOTU title ;-)
<Kyral> should I change its status in Ubuntu to closed or...
<Kyral> for 2772
<crimsun> just leave it.
<Kyral> kk
<crimsun> we can't do anything about it currently anyhow.
<Nafallo> this laptop needs more ram :-/
<ajmitch> Nafallo: what, it only has 1GB?
<bddebian> Lathiat: Yes, I'm a member :-)
<Nafallo> indeed
<ajmitch> yes, I feel so sorry for you Nafallo
<Lathiat> bddebian: are you in the ubuntu members launchpad group/
<Lathiat> bddebian: if so, you should have an @ubuntu.com
<crimsun> bddebian: mine doesn't work either due to my GPG key being sign-only :-)
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/libtrash/+bug/2702 <---Wishlist anyone?
<Lathiat> crimsun: thats fixed (so im told)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: he's not
<ajmitch> s/laserjock/lathiat/
<crimsun> Lathiat: I keep trying, and it keeps giving me the lovely red oops page.
<Lathiat> hm ok
<ajmitch> Lathiat: so as I've told him, he needs to bug a CC member :)
<Nafallo> bddebian: I think the sab is alive... :-)
<bddebian> Lathiat: I'm not in the launchpad group apparently
<Lathiat> apparently you suck then ;p
<bddebian> Nafallo: The sab?
<ajmitch> bddebian: so get in the group
<Nafallo> bddebian: sabdfl
<bddebian> Lathiat: Yeah, pretty much
<bddebian> Nafallo: Ah
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're not cool if you're not in the group
<Nafallo> bddebian: go bug him :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: I don't need to be in the group to get things done apparently :-)
<ajmitch> yes, I'm sure sabdfl will welcome a break from getting soyuz ready by tuesday
<Lathiat> heh
<Nafallo> :-)
<Lathiat> hows that going anyway?
<ajmitch> getting there
<Nafallo> Lathiat: like I said... he's still awake ;-)
<Lathiat> heh
<ajmitch> 09:51 < SteveA_> sabdfl: we gonna see some soyuz action om monday?
<Lathiat> guess i wont pester him then ;p
<ajmitch> 09:52 < sabdfl> SteveA_: err.. lots of test failures
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<bddebian> soyuz?  WTF is soyuz?
* bddebian thought it was a Russian spacecraft
<Lathiat> bddebian: launchpad infrastructure for package building etc
<Lathiat> it is
<ajmitch> so it's coming close
<Lathiat> launchpad
<Lathiat> soyuz
<Lathiat> i dunno what malone is
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, one that sabdfl rode on
<bddebian> Ahh
<ajmitch> on his little trip up to space
<Amaranth> soyuz is the thing the takes off from launchpad ;)
<TiMiDo> hey everyone, i want to get involved, in the ubuntu community where do i star from?
<Lathiat> woo
<crimsun> start from wiki/MOTU
<Lathiat> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
* Kyral wonders when he should apply for Ubuntu Membership
<ajmitch> Kyral: when you have a number of contributions over a period of time
<Kyral> yah, but when is enough :P
<crimsun> membership? right away.
<crimsun> MOTUship needs more involvement, like ajmitch said
<ajmitch> crimsun: I dunno, membership also needs a sustained contribution
<Kyral> How many bugs do I have squish, how many packages do I need to fix
<TiMiDo> ok at was reading there and i already signed in on the launchpad what else do i do?
<Lathiat> all of mine :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: fair 'nuff, I'm still in the fast-track frame of mind
<TiMiDo> what else do i do?
<ajmitch> crimsun: I remember some highly active now-MOTUs who were turned down at CC the first time because they'd only been working a couple of weeks
* bddebian raises his hand :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: were you turned down at CC?
<crimsun> TiMiDo: With what area are you interested in helping?
<TiMiDo> testing, programming or write docs,
<TiMiDo> or whatever i can do
<bddebian> ajmitch: First time yes.  They said come back in two weeks :)
<crimsun> TiMiDo: pick out some things you want to do. Make sure you document them on a wiki page.
<ajmitch> the MOTU team does packaging & fixing of universe packages
<ajmitch> if that's the area you want to start in
<TiMiDo> crimsun; oh i'm not really good with wiki =)
<Kyral> Someone clear out REVU...'P
<Nafallo> w00t!
<Nafallo> seems like we are getting Karma for uploads soon :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: well yeah
<ajmitch> that was intended from the beginning
<ajmitch> so that bddebian can be top of the karma table
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> lol anyway :-P
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> 7 points for non-FTBFS ;-)
<Kyral> Do you have to be in the MOTU Group?
<ajmitch> Kyral: to upload?
<Nafallo> to upload?
<ajmitch> for uploads you need to be in the ubuntu developers group
<Kyral> yah (Not to REVU)
<bddebian> Heh
<ajmitch> team membership will control who uploads for dapper
<Kyral> which team...
<ajmitch> so the tech board would have to approve you joining that group
<ajmitch> ubuntu-dev, as I said
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> sorry I just like fainted kinda
<ajmitch> http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
<Kyral> Yah I'm a part of Ubuntu Users
<ajmitch> unlike ubuntu users, this one has some significance for uploads :)
<Kyral> I know///
<Kyral> I need to be a Member first right?
<Nafallo> yes
<Kyral> yah so I'll be content to smash bugs and make packages for REVU in the time being ;P
<ajmitch> member first at a CC meeting
<ajmitch> MOTU next at a TB meeting
<ajmitch> then main uploader at TB as well
<Nafallo> I think I became member and MOTU with a week inbetween ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: some got them at the same meeting
<ajmitch> when it was really fast-tracked
<Kyral> I'm going to cite my work as a MOTU-In Training when I go for Member Power
<Nafallo> ajmitch: yea, buts that's only wrong :-P
<ajmitch> Kyral: what work have you done?
* Amaranth became a member without even attending the CC meeting
<Amaranth> and i haven't been to one since
<Kyral> Smashed bugs mostly
<Nafallo> Amaranth: hehe. you where on all before that one, right? ;-)
<Kyral> A lot of stuff in UbuntuForums
<Amaranth> Nafallo: Almost every single one, no matter what time.
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> Kyral: what bugs have you fixed?
<Nafallo> there you got hen
<Nafallo> s/t\ /\ t/
<Amaranth> It was summer, I was staying awake 24 hours at a time and sleeping 16. :D
<Kyral> I'm trying to find my activity track
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> morning
<ajmitch> Kyral: I just haven't seen many sponsored uploadss for you to fix bugs :)
<Kyral> Sponsored Uploads? Like for REVU?
<ajmitch> like uploads to ubuntu
<Kyral> I don't have those kinda rights yet
<ajmitch> Kyral: I said sponsored uploads
<ajmitch> which means that a MOTU uploaded something you had done
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, i was cleaning up my key this weekend, you didn't sign my key hehe or forgot to send it
<Kyral> Mez is supposed to upload this one for me soon...
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3129
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: that's probably right
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I probably still have your key fingerprint in my old laptop bag :)
<Nafallo> noone can upload now :-P
* Nafallo dputs his server ;-)
<jsgotangco> heh no rush, i'm catching up on fingerprints lately
<Kyral> I've mainly been going around confirming, changing priority, whatnot. Its rare that I have time to actually build something as of late (school..)
<ajmitch> right
<Kyral> Check the Universe Bugs mailing list. Name's Chris Peterman ;P
<ajmitch> not sure what criteria the CC will use, but you want to have as much as possible done to apply for membership :)
<Kyral> Yah I know
<ajmitch> yes, I've been busy on that list as well ;)
<Kyral> I have a new package sitting in REVU limbo right now
* ajmitch sees > 200 items on universe-bugs for myself
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> During semester break it will pick up for me
<Kyral> I tend to do more tech support while on UbuntuForums ;P
<ajmitch> right, that questionable futurama package
<Kyral> Actually not the Futurama package
<Kyral> look for "dcbu"
<ajmitch>  yes, spotted it
<ajmitch> -1ubuntu1 should be -0ubuntu1 :)
* Kyral falls down
<Diablo-D3> Futrama has its own package now?
<Kyral> dch -v "Because the MOTU is very very picky" :P
* Diablo-D3 demands a fullmetal alchemist package!
<ajmitch> Kyral: most MOTUs aren't
<ajmitch> I'm just pedantic
<Nafallo> :-)
<Kyral> twas a joke ;P
<Kyral> and WTF does pedantic mean?
* ajmitch is worried that a program like this is written in c++ when a shell script would do just as well :)
<Diablo-D3> nheh
<Kyral> because I didn't know shell scripted when I started writing it ;P
<Diablo-D3> Kyral: its a polite word for anal.
<ajmitch> and I notice that it doesn't backup the critical parts of dpkg
<ajmitch> just the list of installed packages
<Kyral> eh?
<Diablo-D3> Kyral: anal retentive
<ajmitch> the actual status db
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: thank you for your contribution :P
<Kyral> where IS the actual status db
<ajmitch> oh my
* Diablo-D3 lights ajmitch on fire
<ajmitch> it's in /var/lib/dpkg
<Diablo-D3> BBQ!
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: stop it now, please
* Diablo-D3 gets the bbq sause
<Kyral> can't that be wiped with autoclean...
<Diablo-D3> ajmitch: what? I'm roasting you.
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: you're being silly
<ajmitch> Kyral: not at all
<Diablo-D3> ajmitch: well, its not like breezy+1 is open for buisness yet =/
<Kyral> well, mark what you think should be added...I need to shower ;P
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: it doesn't give you license to be annoying
<ajmitch> Kyral: if I remember to look at it again, I will :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> so no sponsor?
<ajmitch> I'm just not sure that a program to copy a few files is worth a package as it stands at the moment
<ajmitch> certainly not right now
<Kyral> okay
<ajmitch> this package might not pass the debian 'trivial package' test
<Kyral> Now I know what I'm doing in December
<Kyral> It may be trivial, but I have found that people like the idea of this thing
* ajmitch would rather get debbackup from daniels if he still has the source lying around
<ajmitch> or some shell solution with rdiff-backup :)
<Kyral> So basically backup a crapload of stuff
<ajmitch> and keep some history
<Kyral> I may wind up modifying it into a mass deployment script (for like computer labs)
<ajmitch> heck, even copying into a bzr repository would be useful :)
<Kyral> bzr repo?
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> wzzat
<ajmitch> google it :P
<Nafallo> apt-cache show bzr :-)
<Kyral> Yah I will
<Amaranth> ooh, firefox 1.5 coming soon: "No known major regressions."
<ajmitch> it's a revision control system
<Kyral> 'cause I need to shower
<Kyral> Is there anythign for mass deployment on Ubuntu yet...
<Kyral> I dunno....but shower calls
<Nafallo> I hope mvo makes that in dapper :-)
* Nafallo gets existed over the SoyusSpecs :-)
<Nafallo> I hope apt-proxy gains min_age soonish
* ajmitch hopes apt-proxy gains sanity
<bddebian> heh
<Kyral> I'll finish Fortune-Mod-Futurama tomarrow
<Kyral> all I have to do is find the right copyright for Futurama right (99% sure that this kinda thing is covered under Fair Use)
<Nafallo> wow soyuz!! :-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
* ajmitch is happy to see nz.archive.ubuntu.com pointing to an NZ mirror now
<pef> hello
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey stephan
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey andrew
<dholbach> how are you all?
<ajmitch> good
<\sh> couple of beers and half a bottle of bacardi rum....so RELAXED ,-)
<ajmitch> haha
<Lathiat> haha
<dholbach> ouch
<jsgotangco> lol
<\sh> not at the same time ;)
<ajmitch> was ogra leading you astray again?
<\sh> ajmitch: i think it was the other way around
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> i promised Jane that I will comfort him, so he can sleep long without a disturb...I think I succeed with the plan ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> he's nice & relaxed then?
<ajmitch> and not too hungover?
<\sh> no...everything is ok :)
<Treenaks> \sh: he's just catching up? :)
<\sh> Treenaks: he has to...we need him at ubz :)
<Treenaks> \sh: true..
<ajmitch> UBZ is coming closer..
<Treenaks> ajmitch: 2 weeks!
<Lathiat> pff
<Treenaks> Lathiat: tired of it already?!
<Lathiat> no, im not going
<Treenaks> Lathiat: you're not?!
<Lathiat> no
<Lathiat> i can't afford it, and was rejected for sponsorship
<Treenaks> hm. too bad
<Lathiat> its ok, ajmitch and jdub can do my hard work for me
<Lathiat> :)
<ajmitch> *cough*
<Treenaks> Lathiat: oh I'll be seeing jdub this week :)
* ajmitch gets his fanboy shirt on
<Treenaks> ajmitch: "I pretended to be Lathiat and all I got to show for it is this lousy t-shirt" ?
<Lathiat> all the important people go to linux.conf.nz^H^Hau anyway
<\sh> Lathiat: u mean sitting with dropped pants in cold montreal and shouting "Love Ubuntu! Love Ubuntu"? ,-)
* Lathiat laughs at Treenaks 
<Treenaks> Lathiat: I can't afford _that_ ;)
<Lathiat> and \sh
<Lathiat> Treenaks: i can :)
<Lathiat> its much cheaper to go there, and i got travel assistance
<Treenaks> Lathiat: ah, you're swimming? :)
<Lathiat> ehe
<Lathiat> ^h
<ajmitch> travel assistance = a canoe
<Treenaks> ajmitch: LOL
<Treenaks> ajmitch: with a guy in it shouting the rhythm
<Lathiat> Dear Trent, We are pleased to offer you a canoe for travel assistance to LCA2006, I hope you can soon confirm you will be coming. Cheers, Nick, LCA2006
<\sh> Treenaks: with a guy who is playing the drums for the rhythm ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: yeah :)
<Treenaks> galley-slaves ;)
<\sh> "The Gauls, The Crazy Gauls"
* Treenaks waits for the work day to end
<sivang> \sh: do we have a breezy goals list today?
<Treenaks> I mean.. I can almost see the hotel where EuroOSCON is being held
<Treenaks> but I couldn't go :(
<ajmitch> sivang: dapper?
<sivang> ajmitch: yes
<dholbach> \sh: bug triage :)
<dholbach> sivang: bug triage :)
<dholbach> \sh: sorry :)
<sivang> dholbach: what about bug triage?
<KraetziChriZ> Morning Guys :-P
<dholbach> sivang: it's a thing we can do now that the archive is closed, we need a good cleanup, that's why i'm going to run a bug day on wednesday
* sivang brb
<dholbach> are we prepared for some hundreds of bug triagers on wednesday? :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: maybe, I've been doing some cleanup today
<ajmitch> remember that we have a MOTU meeting coming up as well
<dholbach> it'll be on 20 utc, right?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> so 9am thursday for me
<dholbach> then we'll have enough time to show the guys around :)
* ajmitch will need to take time off work
<Lathiat> gah
<Lathiat> i'll forget that
<Lathiat> i bet
<Lathiat> im doing well so far
<Lathiat> ajmitch: phone me on thursday. ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: sure, I've got your number on my phone ;)
<sivang> dholbach: cool, I'll perpare myself as well
<Lathiat> wait, that means i have to fix my phone, beh
<Lathiat> chagers dead :\
<Lathiat> *chargers
<Lathiat> decided to stop charging yesterday :(
<ivoks> uh... i don't know about you, but people are confused with kubuntu, edubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu...
<ivoks> every newbie i met thinks that this are all diferent distributions
<ivoks> and dream about one single ubuntu distribution :)
<dholbach> we need a WeAreOneFamily page on the wiki to send them too :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> and we had a wrong aproach, imho
<jsgotangco> xubuntu?
<jsgotangco> there's an initiative for it already?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> it's in breezy :)
<jsgotangco> well xfce is in breezy
<jsgotangco> but it ain't called xubuntu
<jsgotangco> unless there's a metapackage?
<ivoks> xubuntu-*
<jsgotangco> WOW
<ivoks> good morning jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> Package: xubuntu-desktop
<jsgotangco> Priority: optional
<jsgotangco> Section: universe/misc
<jsgotangco> Installed-Size: 32
<jsgotangco> Maintainer: Jani Monoses <jani@email.ro>
<jsgotangco> oohhhh
<ivoks> yup, still universe :/
<jsgotangco> still a good start imo
<ivoks> of course
<ivoks> it's fresh project
<jsgotangco> nice i'll do a server install later and grab the metapackage
<jsgotangco> s/server/base
<ivoks> jsgotangco: you said it right... server install
<ivoks> uh..
<ivoks> ubuntu is topic #1 in linux.hr community
<jsgotangco> nice
<ivoks> just check out linux.hr
<ivoks> and hr.comp.os.linux is all covered with ubuntu questions
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, ping?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: pong
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, are we adopting Unfrgiven's intro doc?
<ajmitch> it was going to go into breezy but didn't make it through NEW
<ajmitch> do you mean we==doc team?
<jsgotangco> no, ubuntu in general
<ajmitch> yes, we are
<herve> hello
<ajmitch> hi herve
<herve> dholbach, yo daniel!
<herve> hey ajmitch!
<jsgotangco> we can easily integrate that stuff into one huge book like the freebsd handbook
<dholbach> herve!
<dholbach> NICE TO SEE YOU BACK!
* dholbach hugs herve 
<herve> woohoo!
<ajmitch> herve: back & ready to work on dapper?
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i've lost the doc
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, do you have the link again?
<herve> ajmitch, on a slower pace but yes
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: not the very latest package
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, even an old one that'll do
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=787 for the source package
<jsgotangco> thanks so there's a deb
<herve> yes! revu
<herve> I have a package to register
<herve> those dumbs at Debian won't ever reply to my request for sponsorship
<\sh> herve: CoC CoC ,)
<herve> I stayed polite :-)
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> herve, how we know him :)
<dholbach> ... know and love him ... :)
* jsgotangco wallpaper is really nice...
<zakame> hi all
<jsgotangco> zakame, hi!
<dholbach> you have a screenshot somewhere, jsgotangco?
<dholbach> hi zakame
<zakame> just got back to Daet :D
<jsgotangco> dholbach, you don't want ME posting my desktop to Planet
<ajmitch> dholbach: probably some random photo from planet ;)
<jsgotangco> you wouldn't want to start another "fridge" trend
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: why not?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> good idea
<ajmitch> I'm all for another fridge trend
<jsgotangco> the face of motu trend?
<zakame> hehe
<freeflying> what does these mean:
<freeflying> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to scons-local-0.96.1/SCons/Environment.pyc: binary file contents changed
<freeflying> dpkg-source: building skim in skim_1.4.2-1.dsc
<freeflying> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<dholbach> you changed a binary file
<ajmitch> freeflying: you need to rm .pyc files in the clean target
<dholbach> try running    sudo fakeroot debian/rules clean
<zakame> freeflying: it means you probably changed a binary, or deleted a file
<Sepheebear> hey guys, i spammed the hell out of this bug report  Malone #3255. I added the *.diff.gz for each update. is there a better way I could report these?
<ajmitch> Sepheebear: please please don't paste them inline
<ajmitch> as malone mangles comments
<dholbach> Sepheebear: do a debdiff on both .dsc files and "+ add attachment"
<Sepheebear> thanks will do
<ajmitch> add attachment is the only way they'll be usable
<Sepheebear> ah ok now i know
<freeflying> same error after doing sudo fakeroot debian/rules clean
<dholbach> then you should fix up the clean target to remove the .pyc files
<zakame> freeflying: are you using debuild? if so, you can look at the .build logfile and tell us what happened there...
<freeflying> i'm using dpkg-buildpackage directly
<zakame> freeflying: hmmm, try running that under a script log: `script <logfile>` and `dpkg-buildpackage ...`
<Lathiat> we already know the problem...
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> "Format USB Stick" is missing somehow ;)
<Sepheebear> i updated the bugreport with the diff, thanks. so far i've been messing around with font packages to get my feet wet, is there a listing anywhere of other packages that need love?
<dholbach_> Sepheebear: that's nice of you, thanks - i guess you'll have to harvest across malone and bugzilla for that :(
<Sepheebear> hey anyway i can help. its funny i now use ubuntu 90% just looking for bugs to fix
<freeflying> still give the same errors
<freeflying> have build it correctly a week ago
<herve> how many of you are already using baazar-ng?
* ajmitch is
<ajmitch> I've been using it for awhile now
<dam_ned> hello all
<dam_ned> I package a requested package from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<dam_ned> How can I make it available in universe?
<dholbach_> we need to review it
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU has all the information
<dam_ned> Does there exist something like the debian sponsors system, or do I have to become a member?
<ajmitch> revu is where we review stuff & sponsor
<dam_ned> I read most of it, but maybe I missed something
<dam_ned> aha
<dholbach> if we reviewed it and like it, somebody will sponsor an upload
<dam_ned> perfect, I'll check it out
<herve> ajmitch, no major flaw, no blocking bug?
* herve upload his first package to REVU :-)
<ajmitch> herve: hmm?
<herve> ajmitch, baazar-ng, you're happy with it?
<ajmitch> herve: I'm quite impressed
<herve> I'm looking for a replacement of tla
<herve> bzr is a good candidate but may be too young
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> bazaar is probably a better direct replacement at the moment
<herve> my point too, in can read tla archives
<herve> s/in/it
<herve> siretart: ping
<lifeless> bzr is ready, for sure
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> and baz-import is working for many folk now
<herve> but not all :-)
<lifeless> herve: have you tried it ?
<dholbach> which team aliases in launchpad do we have?
<herve> not yet, just stuying the alternatives for now
<ajmitch> dholbach: hm? there are quite a few now
<dholbach> could you all shout in the names of them?
<dholbach> mono? gnome? motumedia?
<dholbach> kubuntu-team?
<ajmitch> mono, motu, motuim, avahi, pkg-zope
<ajmitch> those are a few I know of
<Lathiat> teams?
<Lathiat> moturuby, motugames
<dholbach> ah pkg-zope is the one
<dholbach> cool
<ajmitch> dholbach: heh, it was renamed
<Lathiat> we really should make them members of the motu team or something
<ajmitch> that's possible
<Lathiat> i know thats why i mentioned it :)
<ajmitch> but they'd probably get all the motu bugs then
<Lathiat> you think?
<Lathiat> hrm
<ajmitch> you want to try it with avahi? ;)
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> ell as a ember of the motu team i dont get motu bug stuff..
<ajmitch> make avahi a member & see if sebest complains
<ajmitch> actually yeah
<Lathiat> so why would another team?
<ajmitch> since motu's contact address is a mailing list
<ajmitch> rather than all team member
<ajmitch> it might work ok
<Lathiat> ah right
<dholbach> motuxfce?
<sebest> ajmitch: why would i complain? :)
<Lathiat> sebest: getting mailed every bug assigned to MOTUs :)
<sebest> ah yes, i would complain :s
<Lathiat> haha
<sebest> as i'm not (yet) a motu :)
<dholbach> i changed wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams a bit
<dholbach> i guess we'll need it as a lookup table for bug days soon
<herve> so what is the priority when the dapper archive is open?
<dholbach> merges and bug triage/fixing
<dholbach> we can do triage now too :)
<Mortas> I'm a new noob who wants to join in, please give me tedious boring jobs so I can learn :)
<ajmitch> dapper is special - we want universe to be extra nice
<ajmitch> Mortas: oh we've got *lots* of those
<Mortas> I was assuming that
<Mortas> I've been looking around at the wiki but haven't found the 'we don't wanna touch this, let the new guy do it' parts
<dholbach> Mortas: nice of you to drop in
<dholbach> Mortas: basically you can touch everything
<dholbach> if you don't have upload privileges yet, we will have somebody review your changes
<dholbach> but the archive isnt open yet, so we're currently "cleaning up" :)
<dholbach> meaning we're having a look at all the bugs in malone that are tagged as "motu"
<dholbach> and make sure we understand what the reporter is talking about and we look for fixes, if we can't do them ourselves
<Mortas> I was looking at malone but haven't really figured out how to filter out the motu stuff
<dholbach> checking in upstreams bugzillas is cool too, since they sometimes have the fix around already (if not, we can forward them our bug)
<Mortas> is that everything assigned to moto?
<Mortas> or is there a generic category of some sort
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
<ajmitch> has the bugs assigned to the motu team
<Mortas> ah that's a lot more than I found *bookmarks*
<dholbach> cool :)
<Mortas> ah k, didn't think of looking at the people & teams yet
<dholbach> launchpad takes a bit of time to get used to
<dholbach> to grok all the concepts - i daresay i didnt manage all of them myself yet :)
<Mortas> that was to be expected :)
<Mortas> I just to the usual brute-force learning method, click on everything
<Mortas> do*
<Mortas> so the general idea is, pick a bug, see if you can test/fix it, submit to reviewer?
<dholbach> sometimes we have to make sure we have all the information a reporter can give us
<dholbach> "this doesnt work" isnt really helpful :)
<Mortas> and sadly enough most likely the content of atleasy 70% of the bug reports
<dholbach> for example: if you don't manage to reproduce a crash, you can tell them to follow the instructions on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<dholbach> good resources for fixed bugs are of course http://packages.debian.org/<package> (the changelog section) or bugs.debian.org
<Mortas> is there a page on the wiki with a collection of this links or should I just start bookmarking a lot?
<dholbach> i'm just writing up a couple of notes for bug squashing
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> i wanted to announce a bug day on wednesday
<dholbach> so keep on asking, so i don't forget :)
<Mortas> haha ok
<dholbach> for example gnome wiki has a couple of stock answers, which are put in a nice way
<dholbach> so you don't go and write "Reporter, which version of Ubuntu do you use?"
<dholbach> i read that once and was quite shocked
<Mortas> the could have been said a lot better
<Mortas> that*
<Mortas> still to early for my fingers to have woken up
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> in launchpad you can add a link to a upstream bug tracker (if you forwarded it upstream or you found a duplicate of the report)
<dholbach> and i just updated MOTUTeams, with a list of launchpad names, which we can assign bugs to
<Lathiat> unfortunately linked debain bugs dont seem to show the status unlike bz bugs
<Mortas> another question I have is if there is some sort of list of why a certain package will not be included
<Mortas> I know for example tomcat isn't in there and that there are people who want it
<Mortas> but not why it isn't in there
<ajmitch> Mortas: usually because they haven't been synced from debian
<ajmitch> since dapper isn't open yet
<dholbach> Mortas: we list packages users want to have on UniverseCandidates (on the wiki)
<ajmitch> and new packages had to be manually approved after the upstream version freeze for breezy
<Lathiat> well theres 2 categories
<Lathiat> those in debian not in ubuntu
<ajmitch> dholbach: tomcat is in debian :)
<Lathiat> and those not in either
<Lathiat> the latter can be for a number of reasons
<Lathiat> not packaged, not free, requires some non-free part, etc
<dholbach> ajmitch: just a more general answer :)
<Lathiat> totally illegal in 90% of the world, etc :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I know..
<dholbach> ajmitch: but cool, people will love it
* dholbach 'd like to have all the old lucasarts games in Ubuntu :)
<herve> ouch, I'm not a memeber of universe-bugs
* ajmitch shouldn't try & answer questions.. :)
<dholbach> herve: you will cry under the load :)
<herve> dholbach, it happened when I commented on malone
<herve> but you're right
<Lathiat> herve: oh
<dholbach> herve: ah ok
<herve> I wasn't asking for someone to suscribe me!
<ajmitch> dholbach: subscribe him quick!
<dholbach> somebody please tell me how to fix up mailman
<herve> suscribing to gmane.org will be fine
<dholbach> thanks :)
<herve> so I guess I'm not the only one to receive those moderator messages?
<dholbach> herve: no, i'm the moderator, because i can't filter Reply-To or Organisation or whatever properly
<herve> strange, there are bugs listed twice in the launchpad url given by ajmitch
<Mithrandir> dholbach: hmm?  What are you wondering about mailman?
<dholbach> dups probably
<Lathiat> herve: probably because they were targetted at more than 1 distro
<Lathiat> herve: e.g. targetted at breezy+hoary+current
<herve> dholbach, no, same numner
<herve> number
<Lathiat> which people do misunderstandubly sometimes
<ajmitch> herve: such as?
<ajmitch> herve: same bug, different bug tasks :)
<ajmitch> it's a malone feature
<herve> 3145
<dholbach> Mithrandir: i don't want to filter From:, but Reply-To or whatever only lets lunchpad mails through
<ajmitch> somebody marked the same bug as a task against gnucash & ubuntu
<Mithrandir> dholbach: one level up.  What is the problem you're trying to solve?
<dholbach> Mithrandir: i want to permit just launchpad mails and the ones of subscribed guys on the mailing list (universe-bugs@)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: ok, that's possible to do.
<herve>  elmo crashes on startup  -- I think we would know :-)
<Lathiat> haha
<dholbach> Mithrandir: could you give me a hand?
<herve> yoohoo! malone finally has a "subscribe me" action
<Mithrandir> dholbach: list admin page -> sender filters -> accept_these_nonmembers = ^.*@launchpad.net
<herve> no need to type its own login
<dholbach> Mithrandir: that's only for "From:"
<dholbach> Mithrandir: which is not accurate for the recent launchpad mails
<Mithrandir> hmm, point
<Mithrandir> add it to header_filter_rules?
<dholbach> Mithrandir: i tried 'privacy options' -> 'spam filters' -> header_filter_rules
<dholbach> yeah, but i didnt manage a good expression to fix it
<Mithrandir> ^Reply-To:.*launchpad.net ?
<Mithrandir> or x-Malone-Bug or whatever meta-header malone sets
<Treenaks> they just need to fix their Envelope-From
<Treenaks> because current behaviour breaks RFCs
<dholbach> i'll try to
<dholbach> we'll see with the next comments on malone bugs
<dholbach> so please: triage motu bugs, thank you
<ajmitch> ok, sleep time, night all
<dholbach> sleep tight andrew
<zenrox> yawn
<dholbach> i'm off to get some food, see you
<zenrox> see you dholbach
<dholbach> Mithrandir: doesnt seem to have worked :(
<\sh> damn.
<Mithrandir> dholbach: hmm, that sucks.  If you can convince elmo to run more of my code, I can just write a plugin like I wrote for -changes.
<dholbach> i was thinking about just un-moderating the whole list
<dholbach> because it got on my nerves
<dholbach> (apart from everybody elses)
<Mithrandir> you just want it moderated 'cause of spam?
<dholbach> it was moderated, when i got hold of it, and yes, i thought that spam might be a good reason
<dholbach> ok... i'll see you later
<Mithrandir> sure
<Mithrandir> just tell me if I should write the plugin
<dholbach> it should work... somehow with that spam thingie
<dholbach> SteveA told me to use it
<herve> I can't find how to change the assigment in malone
<herve> ok, found...
<herve> did I dream or discover1 is not required anymore on ubuntu?
<Mithrandir> it hasn't been required for a long time, iirc
<Kyral> cya guys. I'm off to class
<herve> I just noticed the dependency was dropped when switching to breezy
<tseng> whiprush: what is that cross pc clipboard thing again
<herve> bye
<whiprush> tseng: synergy?
<koke> hey whiprush are you going to UBZ?
<xerxas> Hi
<xerxas> what's going on ?
<Treenaks> lots of partying ;)
<xerxas> Treenaks ;)
<xerxas> when will developpement restart ?
<Treenaks> see topic
<xerxas> Treenaks: you mean the REVU thing ?
<Treenaks> oh wait, that's in -devel
<siretart> xerxas: bug triage is also development ;)
<siretart> xerxas: dapper is likley to open tomorrow, from what I heard. seeds have already been created
<xerxas> siretart: dapper ?
<xerxas> what is dapper ?
<slomo> xerxas: breezy+1 ;)
<xerxas> Dapper Drake , ok
<xerxas> next release
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> gone on the wiki :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> re
<Mortas> dholbach: if you have a second, I got's another question :)
<dholbach> fire away
<Mortas> is stuff like the comment I posted on #3208 usefull?
<Mortas> or are there other things I should do?
<dholbach> that's excellent
<dholbach> thank you
<Mortas> ok, I'll read throught the rest of the list then :)
<Mortas> hmm apparantly this generates a post on the universe bugs list?
<Mortas> should subscribe first then I guess
<dholbach> you can have a look at http://lists.ubuntu.com/, how much traffic it is, before subscribing :)
* bddebian hasn't subscribed out of phear ;-)
<Mortas> yeah I was reconsidering my previous statement already :)
<bddebian> Mortas: So you are our new BugMaster? :-)
<Mortas> I'm still in the not knowing what I've gotten myself into phase
<dholbach> we'll try to un-moderate the list for a while and see how it copes with spam
<Mortas> so don't enlighten me so I'll continue the boring work :)
<tseng> whiprush: i found it
<tseng> whiprush: using it now
<bddebian> Mortas: :-)
<dereks__> does the tkabber client include the tkabber plugins?
<Riddell> who is  Sebastian Drge and did he make an mp3 musicbrainz?
<Riddell> ah, it's slomo_
<bddebian> Riddell: Slomo
<bddebian> ohh, heh
* siretart is off home. cy
<siretart> a
<bddebian> Later siretart
<_Tonio_> may I require help from one of you guys ? I'm experiencing a very strange thing and I would like your point of view......
<bddebian> _Tonio_: Shoot
<_Tonio_> okay, I installed kubuntu on my girlfriend desktop
<_Tonio_> she has a non lcd screen.
<_Tonio_> everything is okay, but from time to time, when she boots, she has very little fonts.....
<_Tonio_> she has to reboot to get the normal size.
<_Tonio_> there is no rules, it can happen 3 times a week, everyday, or not happen for 10 days....
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: I get that too with ubuntu breezy
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: ah ? cool ;) Not the only one ;)
<_Tonio_> I assume this is due to something maybe missing in xorg.conf, but what ???? I searched without any success.....
<ogra> there was a bug in the last kdelibs upload if i grokked that right... involving font antialiasing
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: yeah - it mostly affects my thin clients, I think something doesn't start or crashes on login
<ogra> _Tonio_, it doesnt happen in gnome at all, i doubt xorg.conf is involved
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: do you have use kde or gnome ?
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: gnome, but some kde apps
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: if it was kde I would have said kubuntu
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: and when it happens, doesn it for all the desktop or only kde apps ?
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: the whole desktop - I can tell because when I go to login at gdm my name is tiny
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: so I reboot the system
<_Tonio_> yes that's exactly the same for my girlfriends desktop.....
<_Tonio_> and here is my last question : do you have a crt or lcd screen ?
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: beautiful mitsubishi 1770G crt 17" flatscreen :)
<_Tonio_> I have a crt on that machine too..... never had any problem with my lcd screens
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: it's bloody heavy though
<tseng> er
<tseng> i had a 21" crt
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: so maybe that's one of the reasons...
<tseng> i have a 22 in front of me atm
<tseng> *thats* heavy
<_Tonio_> tseng: did you experience the same issue ?
<tseng> what issue
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: I really feel it's something not loading or crashing that causes it
<_Tonio_> tseng: font size sometimes changing while rebooting
<tseng> no.
<Yagisan> tseng: boot up, and X is suddenly all mini-fonts
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: possibly..... but well It was like that last week I completly reinstalled, fresh install, this WE, and the problem remains...
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: to be honest - It also happened to me in hoary too
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: restarting the system or restarting X usually cleared it up for me
<_Tonio_> ah..... that's strange, really.....
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: it would be a bug with some screens ???
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: I don't know - if thats the case then all my monitors would be classed as broken
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: possibly......
<_Tonio_> but what would it happen on some computers and not other ones if it not a hardware issue ?
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: well, when I ran Debian woody - It didn't happen to me
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: here is what I found in xorg logs :
<_Tonio_> (II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1280 x 1024
<_Tonio_> (==) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (75, 75)
<_Tonio_> 75, 75 is really defined to be small..... maybe here is the problem
<ogra> yes, should be ~96
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: does it only happen with NVIDIA binary module ??????
<_Tonio_> didn't try at the moment
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: I didn't use nvidia with my woody system ...
<_Tonio_> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: I see you just had the same brainwave I did
<_Tonio_> okay, so a temorary solution could be to test with "nv"
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: or vesa if it's too new for nv
<_Tonio_> it is not too new (geforce 4 mx 400)
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: nv will support that on breezy - I have one in a p2 233!
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: apparently it is not an nvidia problem
<shadoi> I've created e17 ubuntu 5.10 packages here: deb http://soulmachine.net/breezy unstable/
<LaserJock> hi azeem
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: here is a solution given to me that may work....
<_Tonio_> forcing X to dpi 100
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: ok - but why does it misdetect ?
<_Tonio_> Yagisan: don't know..... certainly a problem with some screens apparently....
<_Tonio_> this is not a very common problem so....
<_Tonio_> what you can try is to add "-dpi 100" to ServerArgsLocal in /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc
<_Tonio_> if that doesn't work, another solution is to disable dde in xorg.conf and manualy specify your screen's dimensions
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: ah - I don't use kdm, but I'm sure I can find one for gdm
<_Tonio_> gdmrc ?? ^^
<_Tonio_> sorry I forgot that you were on gnome
<Yagisan> _Tonio_: no worries, If you can find a solution for kde, I will find a way to do it in gnome
<shadoi> ogra: I restructured my packages and built them on breezy, what are the chances of getting them into universe and/or sid?
<_Tonio_> well I assume that X is launched within gdmrc too.....
<dholbach> shadoi: for dapper they're quite well
<_Tonio_> you may have a way to add parameters somewhere in the config file
<dholbach> shadoi: dapper universe - sid is a different story
<ogra> shadoi, quite good as soon as the archive opens again for dapper
<shadoi> ok
<shadoi> Let me know if I need to do anything to help it happen...
<dholbach> shadoi: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU is the place :)
<dholbach> shadoi: that's where we upload packages for review
<shadoi> ok cool.
<dholbach> rock :)
* dholbach looks forward to happy e17 users in dapper
* dholbach looks forward to a e17 team in dapper
<dholbach> :)
<jamessan|work> is e17 that stable now?
<_Tonio_> hi Daniel, fine ?
* Yagisan waits for dholbach to look forward to eubuntu :-P
<dholbach> _Tonio_: i'm quite fine, yes, thank you - how are you?
<dholbach> eubuntu? :)
<shadoi> jamessan|work: it's progressing quite rapidly.
<dholbach> is that the strictly european version?
<jamessan|work> shadoi: excellent.  I may have to try it again
<_Tonio_> good ;) Just (maybe) resolved a strange bug on my girlfriend's desktop, and had a marvellous WE ;)
<jamessan|work> last time I did, it wasn't quite usable (for me) on a day-to-day basis
<shadoi> jamessan|work: most unstable feature right now is the integrated file manager.
<dholbach> _Tonio_: me too, too much party, when i ask my head, but it was nice to relax a bit :)
<Yagisan> dholbach: e17+libdvdcss2 :)
<_Tonio_> dholbach: hehe ^^
<jamessan|work> shadoi: ah, well that won't bother me.  I very rarely use a GUI fm
<dholbach> libdvdcss ... erm - don't thik so :(
<shadoi> jamessan|work: most work now is on configuration dialogs (user friendliness) and the file manager.
<jamessan|work> shadoi: good to hear.  I've been looking forward to e17 for quite some time  :)
<dholbach> who would kindly volunteer to rewrite UbuntuBugDay for thursday, 20th?
<shadoi> jamessan|work: check this out: http://elive.xasein.com/misc/elpanel.avi
<shadoi> jamessan|work: control panel going into the Elive CD.
<ogra> dholbach, a bugday 2 days after the auto imports started ??
<jamessan|work> oh yeah, I forgot there was a live cd to try out e17
<dholbach> ogra: i don't see those two interrelated
<dholbach> ogra: we have to process our bugs
<ogra> dholbach, we'll get toins of new upstream versions first
<dholbach> ogra: and everybody is VERY busy working on them
<Nafallo> actually one day after dapper opens as it seems now...
<ogra> i'd say lets settle the dust of the automerges and jump on the merge bugs first... else we'll be missing them again this release
<dholbach> but there are quite a lot of other bugs as well
<ogra> dholbach, and you know that UVF is planned for universe in this release ...
<dholbach> some we can process and close with the merges
<dholbach> i don't see this interrelated
<ogra> so we should change startegy a bit...
<dholbach> we have to process bugs
<ogra> sure it is
<dholbach> and it's a good time to get people involved
<ogra> you need to care for everything that can get fixed through aew upstream first of all
<ogra> s/aew/a new
<dholbach> that's one of the thing i always have to do
<ogra> not after UVF
<dholbach> read the bug, understand it, check for fixes (which includes debian)
<dholbach> we're not after uvf
<Yagisan> dholbach: I though libdvdcss was still legal in europe
<dholbach> so this is a good time :)
<ogra> UVF will be earlier this time and we'll have to concentrated more o stabilization
<dholbach> Yagisan: i don't think so
<dholbach> ogra: so this is the time to report stuff upstream
<ogra> so all pre UVF work should be cocentrated *now*
<ogra> indded also looking at bugs that have their fix upstream...
<dholbach> yeah and report new stuff upstream, so we have the change to include it in dapper
<ogra> but if we again have 200 merge bugs left after UVF this time, we can give up...
<dholbach> you're too pessimistic for me
<dholbach> really
<ogra> not at all
<dholbach> we won't give up
<Nafallo> europe != sweden (re: libdvdcss)
<dholbach> that's not the MOTU spirit
<dholbach> :)
<ogra> we simply ignored merge bugs due to cxx transition in breezy...
<Lathiat> Nafallo: sure but its a problem for 90% of the rest of the world
<dholbach> yeah, that was a shame
<dholbach> but we'll fix it up for dapper :)
<ogra> so a lot of merged sowftware didn recieve the necessary love
<Nafallo> Lathiat: well, that's not my problem since sweden provide the sources to compile for people :-P
<dholbach> i'm not saying we should only follow one goal, if that's what you mean
<ogra> and we'll have to go with dapper for at least 3 years, so it must be a lot better organized...
<ogra> especially if the release schadule applis hard this time
<ogra> *applies
<dholbach> yeah, sure
<dholbach> but i'd like to have a healthy bug community
<dholbach> and we better start that one of early
<ogra> dholbach, i say we should concentrate all forces on merging first...
<dholbach> mom doesnt produce good diffs atm
<ogra> bugfixes are allowed after UVF....
<dholbach> and it will take QUITE a while to build all that stuff
<Yagisan> Lathiat: actually, how I see it is, its a problem for most western countries + japan. No one else cares about it
<dholbach> ogra: i can't wait until uvf to fix bugs
<ogra> dholbach, thats not what i said
<ogra> but all pre UVF work should have priority this time
<ogra> so we go smoothly with the schedule
<dholbach> bug forwarding included
<ogra> sure
<dholbach> so what is this argument about?
<LaserJock> what do you guys think about having a MOTU-Assistant or MOTU-Helper level on contribution for Universe for people who don't want to be full fledged MOTU's?
<ogra> prioritizing merge bugs :)
<dholbach> ogra: i will happily make that happen, now let me please do a bug day, kthxbye :)
<Yagisan> LaserJock - I prefer to be called freelance thanks
<ogra> dholbach, do what you want
<dholbach> :)
<ogra> :)
<Mortas> the merging start tomorrow?
<Nafallo> Mortas: probably not.
<Lathiat> I think the soyuz stuff is suffering a couple setbacks
<Mortas> hmm too bad, I like loads of broken stuff to fix
<ogra> Mortas, everything starts tomorrow... no idea if MOM is ready already for us
<Yagisan> dholbach, ogra. Who wants to fix amule ?
<dholbach> Yagisan: why don't you try?
<Nafallo> ogra: soyuz is delayed it seems...
<Yagisan> dholbach: because I can't read C
<Nafallo> current ETA is ~Wednesday
<dholbach> Yagisan: try, check upstream/debian's changelogs, maybe they have a fix already
<ogra> Yagisan, you just need to find the right patch ;)
<ogra> Nafallo, gah....
<ogra> Nafallo, shortening the release cycle but delaying the start....
<ogra> fun :)
<Nafallo> ogra: hehe :-). we don't want to make soyuz destroy the archive, right? ;-)
<LaserJock> dholbach|ogra: do you think my thought is worth discussing? or has it been discussed before? or is it just plain stupid?
<Nafallo> insert "to" on a proper location...
<Nafallo> :-)
<dholbach> LaserJock: i'm not quite sure what you're talking about
<Nafallo> or maybe not. baah. I should sleep more :-P
<ogra> LaserJock, i guess with rainsing amount of people we'll need to organize this, yes...
<ogra> *raising
<Nafallo> was up all night reading SoyuzSpecs ;-)
<ogra> LaserJock, currently all people contributing in here are on their way to become MOTU
<LaserJock> dhobach: well, everything right now seems to be geared toward making MOTU, but what about people who don't have the knowledge or time to be MOTU
<ogra> so we dont really have the usecase now... but i guess it will come up once
<LaserJock> I think I would be like that
<ogra> LaserJock, we have revu where many non MOTU supload ...
<LaserJock> I really don't think I would make a good MOTU but I still want to contribute
<Nafallo> LaserJock: what's the problem with the current procedure in pushing some MOTU to do the upload till you made enough to be one yourself? :-)
<LaserJock> yes there is revu, but there isn't much for organization
<ogra> so just get upload rights to revu...
<ogra> we have the ubuntu-devel mailing list the wiki and this channel for organization...
<ogra> as i said i dont see the usecase yet... but it might become something to consider in the future...
<LaserJock> well, I just see that the MOTU's are always saying "We need more people" and the people are like, "We want to help"
<ogra> feel free to prepare something r to bring it up in the MOTUMeeting on wednesday
<dholbach> LaserJock: could you do a wiki page with your proposal?
<Yagisan> LaserJock: I send my stuff to revu - when it's judged as non-shit(tm) watch me harrass and harrass until it's uploaded
<dholbach> LaserJock: that'd be the best i guess... so we can identify problems and come up with ideas how to tackle them
* bddebian doesn't want help, just more ski11z and time.. ;-P
<dholbach> LaserJock: and discuss it in one of our motu meetings
<ogra> Yagisan, else we upload it to the its-shit repo :p
<LaserJock> Yagisan: that's my point, I think that we could have more offical structure for that kind of thing
<ogra> LaserJock, revu is already a very good structue imho
<LaserJock> dholbach: fine, I just wanted to know if you guys thought it would be worthy of disscussion at the MOTU meeting
<Lathiat> Is a package that doesn't operate anymore (e.g. a gmail checker) a good candidate for -updates ?
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I guess I am thinking more about wiki's and information
<LaserJock> and maybe I'm just stupid ;-)
<Yagisan> ogra: nah - some of it is tainted with an activision license that both gives and revokes re-distribution rights, that needs a licensecluebat-repo
<ogra> Lathiat, in any case it would be one if it wipes data from your disk or something like that
<dholbach> LaserJock: it is, but we should put more work in a proposal, to know what we're really going to do
<Lathiat> ogra: right, it doesn't do that
<Lathiat> ogra: its just useless
<ogra> Lathiat, i would make such a decision based on user complaints (for my personal work)... its your call :)
* bddebian proposes that we just tie ogra and dholbach to their chairs and not let them work on main and edubuntu and such.. ;-P
<ogra> bddebian, :P
<Nafallo> lol
<Lathiat> hrm, well, its fixed in breezy actually
<Lathiat> just not in hoary
<Lathiat> so i think i'll pass that up
<slomo_> Riddell: not yet... i'll do it when dapper is open
<Riddell> slomo_: cool.  probably a candidate for backports too that :)
<slomo_> Riddell: yes... or maybe better breezy-updates? what is the policy for -updates?
<Riddell> slomo_: updates is only very small patches, no new packages
<ogra> slomo_, i think it must not introduce intrusive changes to the package and fx serious bugs
<ogra> (dont ask how serious serious is ;) )
<slomo_> hehe... i just wanted to ask that ;)
<ogra> wiping your HD would be serious.... a missing feature wouldnt
<slomo_> usability improvements?
<ogra> i dont think thats serious ... but in the ed Kamion and mdz decide how serious something is
<Mortas> that would be more of a feature improvement
<ogra> *end
<slomo_> ok... then i have exactly nothing atm for -updates, only for -backports ;)
<Lathiat> we want to keep MOTU bugs assigned to motu right? (and not reassign them to us when we're working on them?)
<bddebian> Lathiat: Ideally yes so the ML gets the mail
<dholbach> just reassign to another team
<dholbach> (if there is one)
<Lathiat> nah just osmeone reassigning it to themself
<slomo_> dholbach: in the future it would be nice to let people assing packages to themselfs... would make it much easier to find bugs one wanted to work on ;)
<dholbach> slomo_: true that
<dholbach> hmhmhmh
<dholbach> it's just for the sake of the list
<dholbach> a qa-contact like in bugzilla would be cool
<slomo_> yes... hmm
<dholbach> so we could still get the mails on the list
<slomo_> or maybe cc the list?
<dholbach> yeah that'd work too, but it wouldnt turn up in the motu bugs, i guess
<slomo_> hmm
<dholbach> but maybe we don't need that
<dholbach> if assigning to oneself means: i 1) have the patch in place, 2) really really really work on it and i'm close to a solution :)
<Lathiat> it'd still be nice if we coudl keep track of all motu related bugs
<slomo_> hm, assigning would mean for me that this is a bug i want to take care of ;)
<Lathiat> else bugs will get lost
<Lathiat> it would help if you could get a list of bugs yoru subscribed too
<Lathiat> so you know what yoru working on
<slomo_> Lathiat: how it's done now bugs get also lost... i bet i have at least one bug lurking around which i set to accepted
<Lathiat> slomo_: sure but they can be found still on the
<Lathiat> motu page
<Lathiat> if you reassign it to yourself, you cant
<slomo_> yes but then i can find it on my page ;)
<Lathiat> sure
<Lathiat> but if you forget about it
<Lathiat> or you go away
<Lathiat> and dont do things fo ra while
<Lathiat> its forgotten about
<slomo_> yes... that's the problem...
<Mortas> the idea of assigning to oneself is nice, however it will happen that someone gets bored with it and doesn't want to fix it anymore
<Mortas> or other random reason
<Mortas> and then it gets lost
<Mortas> so you'll need to keep track in the general motu bug list aswell
<Mortas> to kick the lazy one :)
<Lathiat> bugs need to "belong" to motu
<Lathiat> and have the bugs goto the list
<Lathiat> and available as bugs in packages <something> by motu
<Lathiat> an dthen i can reassign bugs to myself
<Lathiat> if need be
<Mortas> if someone is working on it, might aswell leave a comment stating so
<Lathiat> without worry
<LaserJock> what if there is Belongs To: MOTU and Assigned To: *me*  that way you have a bit of both? and *me* has to be a member of MOTU?
<pef> have to go, bye !
<dholbach> bye pef
<LaserJock> is Revu only used for new packages or can it be used for patches, bug fixes, etc?
<dholbach> both :)
<LaserJock> anything you want uploaded, pretty much?
<dholbach> the changelog should be very verbose about the changes
<dholbach> so nobody has to guess your intentions
<LaserJock> can you upload debdiffs, or is just source packages?
<dholbach> source packages
<LaserJock> ok, thanks
<Mortas> dholbach: I added the page to the todo list, can you check if it's ok?
<dholbach> Mortas: sure
<dholbach> Mortas: looks superb
<Mortas> ok, then I'll update the lbreakout bug with a reference to this page
<dholbach> Mortas just created UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath
<dholbach> if you touch a package on that list, be sure to ping upstream/debian before changing the desktop file, but all the theme guys will be happy if you change the Icon path
<Mortas> gheh I'm almost feeling usefull here ;)
<Mortas> added the upstream/debian note to the page
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> made some additions also
<dholbach> i suppose we'll have a DesktopIconTeam soon too :-p
<dholbach> j/k :)
<Mortas> ok altered my list to remove dupes and correspond with your layour
<Mortas> layout*
<Mortas> yay
<Mortas> next! :)
<ogra> dholbach, make that a subteam of the artwork team ;)
<dholbach> merci beaucoup :)
<dholbach> ogra: i thought a subteam of the desktopteam, to circumvent^Wensure naming confusion :-p
<ogra> dholbach, i guess art and desktop should work tighter then :)
<dholbach> sure :)
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks>  Drugi ce spustiti cijene
<ivoks> sorry...
<ivoks> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26935
<ivoks> that's whay i ment :)
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey
<LaserJock> dholbach: could you take a quick look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal and see if it is along the lines of what you are looking for?
<dholbach> sure
<LaserJock> I think I am going to also add to the bottom a mock up of a MOTU Apprentice wikipage
<Mortas> hmm wel this helps, having a bouncing mail address on launchpad while being subscribed to a filed bug
<dholbach> LaserJock: i'll read it more properly later
<dholbach> LaserJock: we should work on that page and discuss it in one of the next meeting
<dholbach> s
<LaserJock> ok, but it is along the lines of what you are wanting?
<dholbach> LaserJock: as i said WE all should work on it :)
<ivoks> nice idea
<dholbach> but some ideas towards more mentoring are GOOD
<LaserJock> dholbach: I think so too
<ivoks> dholbach: your picture is on planet :)
<dholbach> ivoks: yeah, jeff wanted to "show me around" :)
<ivoks> dholbach: getting even more popular :)
<dholbach> and i really forgot that the picture existed
<dholbach> "popular" ;)
<ivoks> dholbach: now whole planet knows about you :)
<zyga> hello
<magnusthe> hi
<sbartleylinux> Is this where I would ask questions about universe provided packages that dont work on breezy?
<zyga> dholbach: ping
<sbartleylinux> or at least dont work as expected.
<crimsun> Have you aske in #ubuntu first?
<crimsun> asked^
<sbartleylinux> crimsun, yes.  no reply/no knowledge.
<crimsun> ok, shoot.
<sbartleylinux> working with xdm.
<sbartleylinux> have tried both server and full install.
<sbartleylinux> xdm starts but never gives login.  just drops back to text.
<sbartleylinux> does not seem to be accessing the /etc/X11/xdm config files at all.
<crimsun> cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
<sbartleylinux> /usr/bin/X11/xdm
<crimsun> this really belongs in #ubuntu
<sbartleylinux> crimsun, have tried there for several days with nobody able to define a solution.
<ajmitch> morning all
<Mortas> 20:59 < ivoks> dholbach: now whole planet knows about you :)
<Mortas> ehm woops
<crimsun> morning ajmitch
<Mortas> damned paste
<crimsun> ajmitch: a bit early, no?
<ajmitch> 9:45AM is early?
<crimsun> ah
<crimsun> yeah, it's early =)
* ajmitch reads that motu apprentice thing & doesn't see much different from what we have now, apart from the title
<\sh> ajmitch: where?
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal
<ajmitch> I was reading the scrollback
<ajmitch> which is why it takes me so long to say good morning in some channels ;)
<ajmitch> hey koke
<ajmitch> koke: got UBZ sorted now?
<koke> hi all!
<koke> ajmitch: yep, I'll be there :)
<ajmitch> yay
<koke> I've found some weird thing :(
<ajmitch> will be good to have you round..
<koke> try apt-cache show php-banana
<dholbach> zyga: pong
<Mortas> hmm a foobar package
<ajmitch> koke: probably an old apt-get.org import
<zyga> dholbach: since I'm new to this I'd rather ask: libnarray-ruby only appears in debian.jp, I've found some old source package and will probably be able to make it work
<zyga> dholbach: I've tracked the package to it's home page
<zyga> dholbach: it's all in japanese though (yay)
<zyga> I've found a more recent version .5.8 instead of .5.4
<zyga> I'll contact the author and last packager for help
<zyga> I can read some japanese but only very basic stuff
<dholbach> zyga: rock :)
<zyga> dholbach: you do know I don't know jack about ruby, don't you?
<dholbach> i have no idea :)
<zyga> h,,
<zyga> mitsuhiko^bb: hi
<zyga> mitsuhiko^bb: ping :-)
<zyga> when in doubt ask someone who can speak japanese ;-)
<mitsuhiko^bb> zenrox: hi
<mitsuhiko^bb> zyga: lol. sorry. i'ma german user ^^
<zyga> mitsuhiko^bb: do I assume right you speak japanese?
<zyga> :/
<mitsuhiko^bb> zyga: but what to translate
<zyga> http://www.ir.isas.ac.jp/~masa/ruby/
<zyga> google translate..
<zyga> heh
<zyga> cool
<zyga> http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ir.isas.ac.jp%2F%7Emasa%2Fruby%2F&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8
<mitsuhiko^bb> It is multidimensional numeric array class. 1,2,4 byte integers, it is possible to have the single/time precision real number/complex number, and Ruby object in the element. Because of this, the calculation which handles mass numerical value even with Ruby, it reaches the point where it can make simple and high speed.
<mitsuhiko^bb> altavista powered ^^
<zyga> mitsuhiko: what's with the nickname BTW?
<mitsuhiko> zyga: i like the japanise culture. because blackbird was reserved on freenode i was creative :-)
<mitsuhiko> s/japanise/japanese
<koke> zyga: do you have any ideas for packaging gems?
<zyga> koke: no, I'm really new to ruby actually :-)
<zyga> koke: that's a nice way to say I don't know ruby at all
<koke> I have to play more with them but I don't like the idea of having another system != apt installing stuff in /usr/bin :)
<koke> :P
<koke> zyga: don't worry, I didn't know 2 months ago
<zyga> koke: what are gems in one sentence?
<mitsuhiko> sorry guys but i hate you. ubuntu works out of the box on my notebook :p i don't have to do anything. that's unfair
<mitsuhiko> thx. you did a great job
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: bugzilla and malone are waiting for you
<dholbach> :)
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: query :-)
<zyga> mitsuhiko: I like the japanese culture too :-) I've studied japanese for one year; I know very little though
<koke> it may sound a bit embarrassing, but I've find a bug in p0rn-comfort ;)
<zyga> heh
<zyga> :D
<mitsuhiko> Oo
* ajmitch is surprised to see voting for a motu ruby team leader?
<\sh> siretart: can u tell me if I'm write what I wrote just now to the java issue on backports?
<\sh> s/write/right/ even
<ajmitch> \sh: where? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: on backports ml
<ajmitch> right
* ajmitch will stay away from yet another mailing list
<zyga> ajmitch: why?
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> not another one
<Lathiat> ;p
<ajmitch> zyga: because most teams are small enough to just sort things out informally
<zyga> ajmitch: someone added 'we need a team leader' so I've opened this poll
<zyga> ajmitch: anyway I do agree with you
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> ajmitch: read it via gmame or archive,)
<zyga> ajmitch: BTW: the poll is broken anyway so we need to wait untill fixes are merged into production launchpad
<ajmitch> for the other teams it generally just happened :)
<ajmitch> zyga: I know, I saw it in #launchpad :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: would you mind looking at MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal and giving me some feedback? If your not busy, that is ;-)
* ajmitch is at work.. :)
<ajmitch> but I ask.. why me? ;)
<LaserJock> well, I just was trying to get some feedback from some of the people here I know somewhat
<ajmitch> right
<Mortas> w00t my page got in the list without being a motu member
<Mortas> mwuhaha :)
<dholbach> Mortas: i un-moderated it :)
<ajmitch> so far the main differences I see are that people would have a title :)
<ajmitch> Mortas: your page?
<Mortas> laserjack put the absolute path thingy in the proposal
<Mortas> ehm laserjock even
<dholbach> ah ok... sorry, i was mistaken
<crimsun> I'm not really sure what MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal really does over and beyond the current
<LaserJock> well, I guess not much but I think it might foster mentoring
<LaserJock> and if there is a plea on ubuntuforums or something for more help
<crimsun> right, so a title like ajmitch was saying?
<ajmitch> at the moment we do a fair bit of mentoring, and new people are welcome to join teams or get into the action
<tseng> we dont want to mentor anyone
<LaserJock> it might help
<tseng> when i say that
<ajmitch> tseng: we still end up doing it though
<tseng> i mean mentor in the most strict sense
<ajmitch> right
<Mortas> well I must say that for the rendom new guy that hasn't been talking here there isn't a good starting point on the wiki
<tseng> ideally people show up here and get their questions answered by anyone
<ajmitch> we generally just sit around on irc & help out
<Mortas> and I should know as random new guy :)
<tseng> they dont hook onto a single person
<Mortas> there should be more 'get on irc' in there
<tseng> i think working with everyone is better for everyone than a "mentor"
<ajmitch> Mortas: so wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU should be cleaned up?
<crimsun> right, mentoring is misleading, because it gives the impression that there's a one-to-one correspondence
<LaserJock> well, it "seems" to me that people get somewhat different answers to questions that are asked here
<Mortas> well everything became a lot clearer when I joined this channel, mainly thanks to dholbach
<LaserJock> depending on who the ask
<Mortas> so a bigger hint to join this channel would be nice
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so that's more of a difference of opinion within the motu group
<tseng> difference = good
<tseng> you get to see different methods
<tseng> which you need...
<tseng> every package is different
<LaserJock> difference isn't necessary good if you are looking for consistency
<tseng> then you are in the wrong place to be painfully truthful
<Mortas> well my guess would be that there are a lot of people who would like to join, but are afraid to ask where to start because they've gotten used to a flame by now
<crimsun> dholbach: perhaps we should state up front on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU that MOTU and #ubuntu-motu are strongly linked
<tseng> no 2 packages are consistant
<dholbach> crimsun: yeah
<LaserJock> well, for instance, we have  Guidelines for using dpatch on the meeting agenda
<Mortas> so some generic things like package cleanup or other simple stuff should be on the wiki as a starting point for new people
<Mortas> with an 'ask X on irc for more information if you get stuck'
<tseng> LaserJock: i think you are reaching too far to justify your conclusion
<dholbach> and we should have a wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURoundTrip, which shows people around
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, because use of dpatch is ok in some situations but not all
<LaserJock> I think my problem is that I didn't have access to IRC for a long time
<Mortas> good point dholbach, there should be atleast a few basic tutorials or single page with links to information
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but the MOTU are making a "best use" policy on that, correct?
<Mortas> including for example packaging guidelines, and a link to the motu bugs on linkpad
<Mortas> ehm launchpad even :)
<dholbach> we have PackagingTips
<dholbach> but it's not entirely complete :)
<ajmitch> and we'll probably link intro developer docs up there
<tseng> if you guys want to organize the docs, great :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: do you think a policy on dpatch is needed?
<LaserJock> ok, well maybe what I am seeing is not very common and I should just shut up
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well there has been some complaints that there is some excessive use
<Mortas> ok as a total noob I got to the wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU page because I saw it on the participate page on the ubuntu site
<ajmitch> yes
<tseng> there are flames against ubuntu developers from debian all the time
<ajmitch> LaserJock: which I'm going to talk about at the meeting
<Mortas> but from that page you got the tips page, and the developer resources I would look at
<Mortas> and that's basically it
<Mortas> not really enough info if you don't know where to look
<ajmitch> Mortas: what else do you suggest?
<ajmitch> dholbach: as I said to ogra, the time is right to put out a recruitment email to -devel & -users
<dholbach> not only one ;)
<Mortas> I would suggest to combine the wannabe tips and resources pages a bit
<LaserJock> ok, here are my 2 main complaints. 1) MOTU documentation is sometimes scattered and hard to find  2) what about people who want to contribute but not be MOTU?
<Mortas> to make a list of pages with references to package building, a summary of how the bug systems works, a generic bug triaging guide
<LaserJock> maybe the Apprentice concept is not what I am looking for
<Mortas> maybe a short intro to the regulars around here
<LaserJock> Mortas: well, that is what I have in the mockup in my proposal
<Mortas> making it a bit more of a 'Welcome to our IRC channel' page, with basically a FAQ and Usefull links section
* ajmitch is probably more a regular IRC lurker than a regular developer :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I think that what I was thinking might help with the recruitment
<crimsun> LaserJock: RE: (2) there's an entire page on participating: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/
<dredg> urgh i think my eyes are going to start bleeding
<Mortas> and maybe a list of 'Motu and non-motu fun projects to work on'
<bddebian> Fun?? ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: get back to work! ;)
<crimsun> certainly bddebian could use help with all those desktop bugs we're going to punt his way
<Mortas> Fun aka they're noobs so don't know better, let's give them the boring janitor like jobs mwuahaha page
<LaserJock> crimsun: yes but that is not very MOTU specific and it doesn't seem to have specific things that need to be done
<crimsun> ;-)
<ajmitch> crimsun: s/desktop//
<crimsun> hehe
<crimsun> LaserJock: but why does it have to be MOTU-specific?
<LaserJock> crimsun: well it doesn't have to be, but I think it makes sense to have a MOTU specific one
<crimsun> MOTU tends to deal with packaging
<Mortas> well, if you look at the participation page it comes down to 'join the ubuntu-devel mailing list' or 'join motu'
<bddebian> Bah bddebian is worthless :)
<Mortas> people are afraid of talking on a mailing list if they've been around previous linux development groups
<Mortas> aka <insert flamewar here>
<Mortas> the whole 'yes we're a friendly community thing' doesn't show on most of the dev lists
<Mortas> more like 'rtfm stfu n00b'
<ajmitch> Mortas: oh we try to keep flames to a minimum around here
<bddebian> Mortas: :-)
<Mortas> yes which is an exception sadly enough
<crimsun> well, there are 87 nicks in here, but only about a dozen actually pipe up
<LaserJock> crimsun: sleeping maybe?
<Mortas> hmm strange people who live in a different timezone
<crimsun> I think we certainly can make the tie between MOTU and #ubuntu-motu more prominent
<Mortas> burns them!
<Mortas> no wait :)
<Mortas> yes I think that would make it a lot easier
<ajmitch> we can probably have more of a gentle introduction of things to do on the wiki
<Mortas> although of course to be honest most of the wannabee linux distro hackers are shy
<ajmitch> dholbach: taking notes? ;)
<Mortas> but that's not our problem :)
<ajmitch> true
* ajmitch is still a wannabe hacker
<Mortas> ehm same here, I just joined this afternoon
<Mortas> and I've been ranting a bit too much maybe :)
<LaserJock> ok, well this proposal is just they way I would got about getting involved, but if other people see it differently I am certianly not stuck on the idea
<Mortas> plus spammed the wiki and bugs list
<LaserJock> I
<LaserJock> I'm not even close to being a MOTU so you guys can just tell me to shut up ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: critical discussion is good :)
<dholbach> ok guys, i'm off to bed - have a nice evening :)
<crimsun> night daniel
<dholbach> ajmitch: no, i was a bit too tired for that, sorry
<dholbach> night daniel
<LaserJock> I think the big thing for me is that I learn a lot by reading (more so than on IRC)
<ajmitch> dholbach: j/k, I was logging & will look over what we discussed
<dholbach> rock
<LaserJock> gnight dholbach
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: good night :)
<dholbach> night andrew, night LaserJock
<LaserJock> do you guys think that there are many non-MOTU are here that wouldn't become MOTU given the chance?
<LaserJock> because of time constraints or whatever
<ajmitch> possibly
<ajmitch> although the bar to entry in't that high
<LaserJock> see, that is kinda where I am at and maybe that is why I like the idea of having MOTU Apprentices
<ajmitch> we already have a number of lapsed MOTUs due to time commitments or otherwise
<dredg> like me
<LaserJock> well, if you have 2 bars, one can be quite a bit higher
<LaserJock> I was kinda thinking about if a lot of people get recruited to MOTU then it might be harder to ensure quality
<dredg> though i'm now in a position where i'll soon be able to contribute to ubuntu again
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so what do you suggest is possible for apprentices? since they wouldn't be able to upload directly
<LaserJock> basicly, not much would be different just organized more
<ajmitch> which is pretty much the only bar we have separating MOTU from non-MOTU
<ajmitch> and that is set by the TB
<LaserJock> they would be in contact with their team leader and they would be using REVU
<ajmitch> they can do that now
<ajmitch> we have non-MOTU forming teams
<LaserJock> right, I am not saying anything radical, I don't think
<LaserJock> I am just saying, make it more organized
<LaserJock> It seems to be working fine now
<LaserJock> but what about in the future?
<Mortas> more like writing it down for the future then?
<LaserJock> s/fine/mostly/
<ajmitch> then how would one qualify to be an apprentice?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure but I think that being an Ubuntit with a signed GPG key would be good
<LaserJock> basicly what ever you need for REVU
<Kyral> okay...
<Kyral> are the mirrors like crapped?
<Kyral> 'cause I was helping someone install Ubuntu and when I tried to install like dev libs, I got 404 Errors
<ajmitch> Kyral: not that I'm aware of
<LaserJock> I just think it might help the MOTU keep better track of what the non-MOTU are doing
<Kyral> Well, trying to install Java-Package gave him a 404
<ajmitch> which is why we have teams for those specific areas
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-23
<Kyral> and would anyone object to me packing up the remaining DevHelp Books?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I agree it just seems like a lot of the info on the wiki is more internal than for somebody on the outside wanting to help
<ajmitch> Kyral: no objection from me
<Kyral> http://htmlhelp.berlios.de/books/devhelp.php <-- Like the ones on this list that aren't there ;P
<ajmitch> LaserJock: probably, but that's a wiki thing rather than an organisational problem where we need to introduce yet another level of developer
<Kyral> 'cause I just found the program and I was like "Holy.....****"
<LaserJock> ok, well maybe scrap the MOTU Apprentice thing but reorganize some of the wiki and put some more direction into it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, we'll probably do that
<ajmitch> it's just that too many of us having been busy fixing breezy rather than doing wiki work
<LaserJock> I am certainly not stuck on the Apprentice thing, it just seemed like an easy way of organizing activity, but maybe it is not that easy
<Kyral> Maybe make a MOTU In Training Team (or someting like that)
* ajmitch managed to join up before there was much of a wiki page to go by :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but that is my point, you guys are working on important stuff, but those of use who can't do that would still like to help we just don't know what to do
<LaserJock> I would love to work on the wiki because I had a lot of struggles and I think that most of the MOTU don't really need advice on how to build a package ;-)
<Kyral> this shouldn't be too hard
<Kyral> just very VERY repetitive...
<ajmitch> LaserJock: feel free to add stuff to the wiki then :)
<Mortas> just add it, you'll get comments when needed
<ajmitch> we'll try to resist mercilessly flaming if you get something wrong ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but see I don't know where I fit in, I will probably never be a MOTU and I don't want to mess with things. If there was something on the wiki that said "we need help organizing the wiki", I would have been all over it
<LaserJock> and I feel like there must be other people like me
<LaserJock> but maybe not
<koke> hi again!
<ajmitch> wb koke
<Mortas> hmm 'we need help organizing the wiki'
<Mortas> wait a sec laser
<LaserJock> ok, so maybe I will change my my MOTUApprenticeProposal to a MOTUForNewbiesProposal
<Mortas> LaserJock: see MOTUTodo
<Mortas> and go ahead :)
<Mortas> once it finishes updating one sec :)
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> ok, but see I didn't want to mess anything up. Now I can do it ;-)
<Mortas> feel free, and just blame me
<Mortas> documentation and information is always good
<LaserJock> ok, thanks for the feedback, I am going to make an alternative proposal for the MOTU meeting and see what happens
* LaserJock shrinks back into the dark basment lab he came from
<Mortas> just put it online and wait for the feedback
<LaserJock> MOTU: is it ok if I reject Bug #3252 ?
<Mortas> judging by the response of the filer it is fixed
<LaserJock> well, I don't think it was ever a problem
<Mortas> and it's also not really adviced to do a upgrade from warty to breezy without the knowledge that something might break
<Mortas> I don't see it as a bug
<Mortas> but I'm not a MOTU :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, it's something we should have caught before release
<crimsun> it's a corner case, unfortunately
<crimsun> wxgtk2.5.3 should have never been in hoary
<LaserJock> so, is it a bug that need's to be taken care of
* ajmitch thought it was fixed, but obviously not
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<crimsun> well, one of Debian ways of fixing it was ripping wxwidgets2.5.3 from the archive
<ajmitch> heh
<Mortas> that isn't really a fix
<crimsun> but yeah, leave the bug there. We'll have to tweak debian/control
<ajmitch> we should just add conflicts/replaces
<Mortas> that's destruction :)
<Mortas> could one of you place a comment then?
<LaserJock> ok, I will try to do that
<crimsun> Mortas: licensing issue
<LaserJock> I am the second person on there so I will follow up and attach a debdiff, unless you guys don't want me too
<crimsun> a debdiff would be fine
<Mortas> go ahead
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> it looks like I can remake the DevHelp-Books package easy
<Kyral> Okay....leave it to me :D
<Mortas> go Kyral go Kyral you can do it
<Mortas> ;)
<Kyral> It should be easy. Just VERY repetitive...
<ajmitch> hello jaldhar
<Kyral> just to check, a tgz is exactly the same thing as a tar.gz
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> okay
* Kyral looks through the book
<Kyral> I may have to update all the books...
<Kyral> package hasn't been touched in almost a year
<sivang> Kyral: last one to touch it was probably Mithrandir or doko or smurfix IIRC :)
<ajmitch> Kyral: why do they all need updated?
<Kyral>  -- Gustavo Noronha Silva <kov@debian.org>  Mon,  1 Nov 2004 21:02:35 -0300
<Kyral>  <---Last Entry in the changelog
<Kyral> Dunno...the source they were using is all outdated books. I found more recent ones on another site...
<sivang> Kyral: what are you trying to do with it?
<sivang> (btw)
<Kyral> add a lot of books :P
<Kyral> http://htmlhelp.berlios.de/books/devhelp.php <---This is the most recent "repo" of books I could find
<ajmitch> Kyral: as a note, devhelp-books has been removed from debian unstable
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> Its a really cool package.....I like :D
<ajmitch> right, DFSG violation..
<Kyral> I'm like "Waitaminute....I can have ALL this documentation in one place? That doesn't require web access? NIIIIIIICE!"
<Kyral> DFSG?
<ajmitch> GFDL, we have to find out what the policy will be with those docs
<ajmitch> debian free software guidelines
<Kyral> GFDL?
* ajmitch sighs.. :)
<ajmitch> gnu free documentation license..
<Kyral> They appear to be all GPL or the FOSS License
<Kyral> and bingo.....found something that I was looking for :D
<Kyral> the CHM Formatted books are newer than the Devhelp ones
<Kyral> and there is a script that converts CHM Books into DevHelp Books :D
<crimsun> you have to be careful with the license
<Kyral> http://htmlhelp.berlios.de/
<Kyral> Its under LGPL
<Kyral> Is LGPL alright for Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> it's just a question of whether the GFDL is
<ajmitch> which the devhelp-books package is under
<Kyral> So....many.....licenses...
<Kyral> wouldn't GFDL == GPL....some gimme a copy of it
<ajmitch> no, GFDL != GPL
* ajmitch will bbl
<Kyral> I'm just skimming the license and it seems like its just the GPL, but applied to Documentation....
<Kyral> then again, IANAL
<zenrox> lol
<Kyral> It means I Am Not A Lawyer...
<Kyral> http://www.gnu.org/gear/gnu20th-tshirt.html
<sladen> Kyral: unfortunately.  It's not...
<koke> iirc, the matter was the GFDL has support for invariant sections, so it was considered non-free according to the dfsg
* koke kicks himself for putting 3 acronyms in the same line :P
<koke> time to sleep, bye
<zyga> marcin_ant: hell
<zyga> hello ;)
* ajmitch returns
<crimsun> tasty lunch?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> bacon & egg sandwich :)
<crimsun> yarrr
* ajmitch writes up a rambling u-devel email
<ajmitch> hm, no herve
* ajmitch wonders why a duplicate bug watch was added to a bug
* Kyral is bored
* Kyral wants to resolve this license issue
* Kyral pulls out a bat and goes looking for who to ask
* zenrox hides
<Kyral> Seriously, I can understand the need for caring about Licensing, but the GFDL comes from the same place as the LGPL and the GPL, so in my mind there is no problem. </rant caused by excess energy and frustration at homework>
<ajmitch> Kyral: that's nice, but it doesn't mean it necessarily fits the DFSG
<ajmitch> http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html as a summary
<Kyral> .....since when are we Debian ;P
<Kyral> Sorry, I have this ongoing fued with a friend who is Debian and everytime I mention trying to become a developer he tells me "Stay Out Of My Distro"
<ajmitch> that's what we have to clarify.. the extent to which we follow things like the DFSG
<ajmitch> a friend who is debian?
<Kyral> He uses Debian and the fact that I use Ubuntu irks him (Ubuntu in general that is)
<ajmitch> so he uses debian, he's not a debian developer..?
<Kyral> Nope
<Kyral> Its my puny excuse at a pun ;P
<ajmitch> what does he have to whine about then?
<Kyral> Dunno, but its very funny at times
<zenrox> id like to see his look when you install a new ver in 6months
<zenrox> and he has to wate for 6 years
<Kyral> or when one of my fixes in universe syncs back to sid and he installs it ;P
* ajmitch notes that many ubuntu developers are debian developers also.. :)
<Kyral> I dunno, the hostility started with him
<zenrox> ya i know maby this will help move the unmovable debian ;)
<zenrox> lol
<Kyral> Frankly I'd mix Debian and Ubuntu at will
<zenrox> me too
<zenrox> dont get me wrong
<Kyral> "Linux For Human Beings" also "Debian For Human Beings" ;P
<Kyral> Which is how I sometimes describe it...
<zenrox> just that maby the ubuntu devel will get put in to debian and help debian speed it devel process
<Kyral> Frankly I'm one of those people who use the best tool for the job. If there are two tools (GNU and Proprietary) that both do the job as well as each other, I'll use the GNU one. If the Proprietary tool works better (and it runs on Linux) I'll use it. If I have to shatter license agreements along the way its all the same to me. I did it enough during my Windows era
<Kyral> Indeed something that attracted me to Linux initially was that I could get a lot of stuff free LEGALLY
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> Why did i just do that?
<ajmitch> we don't know
<Kyral> Neither do I....
<Kyral> sorry about that :D
<Kyral> I think I need a vacation....between school and clubs I hardly have anytime to relax
<Kyral> I need HALO....
<ajmitch> vacation for me=UBZ
<Kyral> Yah, but I think I have an exam the week after
<Kyral> Believe me if I didn't have class I would be there the entire week
<Kyral> I wouldn't understand half the technical stuff, but it would be better than sitting in class :D
<Kyral> Vacation for me == Thanksgiving Break and my Grandma's cooking :D
<ajmitch> are you going to be at UBZ for a couple of days?
<Kyral> Nah, just for Ubuntu Love
<Kyral> Like I said, I have classes that week :P
<Kyral> But I'll wind up giving a presentation on it for the COSI :D
<Kyral> So I'll be taking loads of pictures :D
<Kyral> ...actually it will be a mini-vacation....yaaaah
<Kyral> I'll see you there mitch?
<Kyral> yo bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<ajmitch> yes
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello Master deFreese
<Kyral> I think I'm talking too much again
<bddebian> Bah, Master Bater ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: remember the code of conduct :P
<bddebian> What's that? :)
<Kyral> But you are a Master Debater ;P
<Kyral> bddebian, are you gonna be at UBZ?
<bddebian> Kyral: Unfortunately no
<Kyral> I'll email you pictures from Ubuntu Love Day ;P
<Kyral> Wow....I'm hyper right now.....not good....
<ajmitch> Kyral: what exams do you have?
<bddebian> They wouldn't let me into Canuckistan with all my NRA and GWB stickers... ;-P
<Kyral> The week during UBZ?
<Kyral> I think Calculus 2
<Kyral> my worst subject....
<bddebian> Calculus.. Ugh
<ajmitch> mmm
* ajmitch hasn't done calculus since 1st year at uni
<bddebian> When was that, last year youngin'? ;-)
<Kyral> Why a hacker needs to know how to find the volume of the region bounded by x=2 and x=6  and the line y=tan(x)cos(x) rotated around the line y=1 is beyond me
<ajmitch> no, 2001 :)
<ajmitch> Kyral: so will you be of legal drinking age at UBZ? :)
<Kyral> In Canada :P
<Kyral> I'm 20 ;P
<ajmitch> ah yes
<Kyral> But I don't drink
<ajmitch> canada has a sensible age like NZ does
<ajmitch> I don't drink much :)
<Kyral> Dude, if you saw what Caffine + Sugar does to me, you'd know why I don't drink
<tseng> Kyral: high fives
<ajmitch> haha
<tseng> for non-drinkers
<ajmitch> caffiene+sugar doesn't have the required effect on me
<Kyral> Plus I can unlock that mode sometimes (spontaneous energy surge)
<Kyral> I'll prolly be near that mode at Ubuntu Love. Being around loads of people also does it to me (kinda like feeding offa the vibe thing)
<ajmitch> ah, the vibe..
<Kyral> I'll be like "Whoa! Cool! Dude!"
* ajmitch will probably be over that by then
<Kyral> eh?
<ajmitch> long flights
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Montreal is 2 hours from Clarkson
<Kyral> drive that is
<ajmitch> NZ is several hours from Montreal
<Kyral> No kiddin' ;P
<ajmitch> it'll be good to meet some of the guys again though
<Kyral> I've never met any of you guys
<Kyral> Thats why I'm so psyched
<ajmitch> well UDU was the first time I met a lot of the developers in person
<Kyral> Actually this is my first Linux Conference type thing period
<ajmitch> fun, TB meeting tomorrow
<Kyral> Can I come?
<Kyral> Just to like watch?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> it's a public IRC channel
<Kyral> when (GMT if you don't mind)
<ajmitch> 2000
<Kyral> so 1500 EST.....
<tseng> pretend you met me and ajmitch at the same time
<tseng> we are clones
<Kyral> eh?
<bddebian> Are they gonna bring in mjg59 tomorrow?
<tseng> rage @ screen + gnome terminal
* ajmitch has given up on gnome-termial for that reason
<tseng> yeah it gets old installing urxvt on every box
<Kyral> GNOME Term works fine for me
<tseng> and copying my .Xdefaults
<tseng> Kyral: corner case..
<Kyral> but HALO calls :P
<tseng> screen hates resizing
<tseng> gnome terminal resizes every time you blink
<Kyral> it does?
<tseng> yes
<Kyral> Doesn't for me
<tseng> open a tab = bigger window
<Kyral> Ah, I don't open tabs :P
<tseng> why the other operations cause the same effect im not so sure
<tseng> menus and stuff make screen go bonkers
<Kyral> if I need another term I just fire up another instance ;P
<Kyral> Then agian I also disabled the Menu Bar in GNOME Terminal
<Kyral> anyway, HALO!
<bddebian> Nah, Dungeon Seige II tonight ;-P
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> DS II
<jsgotangco> awsome
<ajmitch> hello
<leetcharmer> hail, a donut_01
<leetcharmer> hihi :D
<bddebian> Not really, I'm getting my arse kicked :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: fix bugs instead
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> it's a less painful way to get kicked
<ajmitch> yo jsgotangco
<ajmitch> what's up?
<leetcharmer> ^_^ so -- I wanna get plugged in, where-to-start?
<leetcharmer> my skills are limited, but let me be used :D
<jsgotangco> hey
<leetcharmer> I totally support what you kids are doin' :D
<bddebian> leetcharmer: They can't be any more limited than mine :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: oh don't be silly
<ajmitch> leetcharmer: we do new packages, fixing existing ones, etc
<ajmitch> a start to what we do is at wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<leetcharmer> okies
<ajmitch> eg we've got a few bugs filed that we want to fix in dapper
<leetcharmer> ajmitch, what is the default programming language?
<bddebian> A few? ;-)
<leetcharmer> I know C++ (but forgetting) + Java (also forgetting)
<ajmitch> leetcharmer: we don't do terribly much programming, though some people write applications
<leetcharmer> how else would U fix the bugs?
<ajmitch> although I'm biased towards python for writing stuff :)
<leetcharmer> I know no python
<leetcharmer> EZ?
<ajmitch> leetcharmer: many of them are packaging bugs, or applying patches from upstream
<ajmitch> where upstream = debian or the original author
<leetcharmer> have ya'll figured a smooth transition way to upgrade Ubuntu releases rather than always reinstalling completely?
<ajmitch> there's about 15000 packages or so in universe
<ajmitch> leetcharmer: yes
<ajmitch> dist-upgrade
<leetcharmer> cool
<ajmitch> the last time I reinstalled my system was back in 2001, which was switching to debian
<leetcharmer> I hear that Ubuntu = forked from Debian
<ajmitch> since then I've managed to just dist-upgrade my way to the latest system
<leetcharmer> aka -- didn't comply w/ rules of being under Debian -or- rules to claim to be Debian-based
<ajmitch> we are separate from debian
<ajmitch> but we stay as close as possible
<ajmitch> especially for universe
<leetcharmer> what's the point?
<ajmitch> and contribute fixes back
<leetcharmer> just to still utilize .deb pkg managers?
<ajmitch> so that we improve debian as we go
<ajmitch> no, to utilise all those packages in debian
<leetcharmer> if wishing to improve debian, why be separate?
<ajmitch> which we regularly merge with
<ajmitch> as I said, we contribute back to debian..
<bddebian> leetcharmer: Differing goals
<leetcharmer> whereas other distros (such as MEPIS) have similar goals?
<leetcharmer> what are those 'goals'?
<ajmitch> we have a 6-monthly release cycle, for example
<ajmitch> compared to debian's 3-4 years
<bddebian> Debian wants to be the Universal OS.  Very stable, etc.  Ubuntu is more desktop / end-user geared.  Too be overly simplistic.
<leetcharmer> hmm ... has anyone considered using LFS to be the basis of their OS and build upon the same standards, yet -- not necessarily being apart of a 'mother' distro that way?
<ajmitch> a number of us work in debian teams as well, so that fixes we make aren't duplicated
<leetcharmer> LFS = Linux From Scratch
<ajmitch> leetcharmer: if you want to, go ahead ;)
<leetcharmer> ajmitch, is that something ubuntu would be interested in?
<ajmitch> we find debian a perfectly acceptable project
<ajmitch> leetcharmer: not in the slightest
<leetcharmer> ajmitch, I see, then if that's the case, that's fine
<ajmitch> there'd be so much that you'd duplicate that debian has built up over the years
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I worked on organizing the MOTU wiki a bit but to be honest I really don't think I did much. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUForNewbiesProposal
<leetcharmer> ajmitch, ah, so this way we avoid reinvinting the wheel
<leetcharmer> http://autopackage.org/ - what are your thoughts about utilizing this?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: thanks
<ajmitch> leetcharmer: it's not going to happen, it's been discussed to death on the devel lists already
<leetcharmer> ajmitch, what's been said?
<ajmitch> that it's not going to happen..
<leetcharmer> well ya -- but detail-wise
<ajmitch> & that it has a number of flaws
<leetcharmer> is the concept not good?
<ajmitch> you may want to look in the archive yourself
<leetcharmer> can U linkme?
<ajmitch> no, I'd have to look it up myself
<leetcharmer> ah, kk
<leetcharmer> so -- then the concept of a universal package manager is pretty whack?
<ajmitch> just an example - http://www.netsplit.com/blog/tech/autopackage.html
<ajmitch> http://www.netsplit.com/blog/tech/autopackage_II.html
<jsgotangco> autopackage is pretty whacked if you ask me
<jsgotangco> :)
<leetcharmer> hrmm ... well I guess because debs are already taken care of there's really nothing more that needs to be done
<leetcharmer> but if you wanted to install something from rpm, you gotta alien first
<leetcharmer> (methinks)
<leetcharmer> but, I suppose U could always go w/ tars
<LaserJock> heah ajmitch: that python-wxversion bug (#3252) isn't as easy to fix as I thought. The Ubuntu source is FTBFS for me (unmet dep)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I doubt that..
<leetcharmer> what are your thoughts on if somebody made a tgz installer that resembled autopackage in the way it manages programs?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I get   libgtk2.0-dev: Depends: libpango1.0-dev (>= 1.9.1) but it is not going to be installed
<LaserJock>                  Depends: libcairo1-dev (>= 0.6) but it is not going to be installed
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sounds more like a broken system
<ajmitch> since those packages are definitely there
<LaserJock> hmm, I will go check my pbuilder
<Amaranth> libcairo1-dev? doesn't libcairo2 conflict with libcairo1?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: yes
<Amaranth> so, um, yeah...
<ajmitch> and python-wxversion source doesn't mention cairo in build-deps at all
<ajmitch> so.. very out-of-date pbuilder, I'd say
<LaserJock> hmm, but I just set it up today
* Amaranth needs a breezy cd
<Amaranth> i've got a new version of smeg ready for testing but i can't even test it myself because of the old bug where non-local filechoosers freeze
<leetcharmer> *hands Amaranth a breezy CD.
<leetcharmer> :/
<Amaranth> because of something that changed in gnome-vfs, i think
<leetcharmer> : uh
<leetcharmer> :/
<leetcharmer> stupid IRC, I forgot commands
<leetcharmer> -.-*
<ajmitch> Amaranth: how is that stopping you?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: i can't make the filechooser non-local, it's a part of a gnomeui widget i use
<ajmitch> and your system needs updated..? or how will a breezy cd help?
<leetcharmer> okies -- well, brb, gotta finish PE project :D
<LaserJock> hi all: are you getting GPG errors for breezy and breezy-updates when you apt-get update?
<ajmitch_> yay
<ajmitch_> seems that my computer is cooking & rebooting
<crimsun> LaserJock: yes, known, but unknown ETA.
<Amaranth> whenever that happened to me before the mirror was in the middle of updating
<LaserJock> ok, well does it cause any problems?
<Amaranth> so it's probably from the heavy load
* ajmitch might need to check out a new cooling fan ASAP :)
<LaserJock> I am getting weird versioning with wxwidgets2.6
<crimsun> the source?
<crimsun> that would be odd
<LaserJock> 1st of all: when I try apt-get source wxwidgets2.6 I get 404's
<LaserJock> and it's pointing to 2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2
<LaserJock> packages.ubuntu.com has the same thing
<LaserJock> but on http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wxwidgets2.6/  it only has 2.6.1.1ubuntu3
<Amaranth> the mirror is in the middle of updating, p.u.c is out of date
<Amaranth> that's the only thing i can think of
<Amaranth> unless the archive is just broken
<ajmitch> archive broken is probably more like it
<LaserJock> so, should I just wait?
<LaserJock> does anybody have a guess as to when the archive will be up to date?
<LaserJock> hmm, just seems to be us.archive.ubuntu.com
<sn9> anybody here?
<sn9> the ffmpeg pkg in universe needs to be rebuilt
<TiMiDo> ok
<TiMiDo> then rebuild it
<sn9> i did, for myself, a rebuilt version needs to go into the repository
<TiMiDo> then talk to someone,
<sn9> s/, a/, but a/
<TiMiDo> talk to ogra
<sn9> ok, any idea when ogra won't be afk?
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning daniel
<dholbach> hey andrew :)
<zakame> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey zakame :)
<sivang> Good morning all
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> hi
<Lathiat> postgrsql makes my head hurt
<sivang> lawhy so?
<Lathiat> i dunno but my head hurts. :)
<siretart> \sh_away: jdong is confusing me heavily with his java issues
<pef> hello
<Mortas> morning
<dholbach> hey Mortas
<Treenaks> Moin dholbach
<dholbach> hey Treenaks - managed some new video crack? ;)
<Treenaks> dholbach: no, not yet
<dholbach> :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: I'll let a few more guys say stuff tonight :)
<dholbach> coool
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<\sh> welcome to my new breezy install ;)
<jsgotangco> nice
<ajmitch> yay
<jsgotangco> i installed kubuntu today..i had some issues....
<jsgotangco> my usb keys won't mount...
<Mortas> anyone else getting request expired on the motu bugs page?
<dholbach> me too
<dholbach> filed a bug about that
<dholbach> does anybody know how access control in malone works? for people that for example are not part of the motu team?
<ajmitch> no, I don't sorry
<ajmitch> I've found that people can generally edit bugs as they wish
<ajmitch> (I think)
<Lathiat> thats not such a bad thing
<Lathiat> until it becomes a problem, anyway
<herve> hello
<ajmitch> hi herve
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> hi herve
<dholbach> Mortas: according to ajmitch and Lathiat you should be able to "just do it (tm)"
<ajmitch> dholbach: according to what I've heard ;)
<dholbach>  ajmitch KNOWS :)
<Mortas> yeah description editing ok, but marking a bug fixed nope
<ajmitch> *cough*
<ajmitch> right
<Mortas> my eyes aren't all that good, but I'm not that blind :)
<Mortas> I hope
<ajmitch> does it not give you the option to change the bug status?
<Mortas> nope
<ajmitch> or does it say you must be a member of the motu (or other) team?
* ajmitch knows there are plenty of non-MOTUs who are closing bugs as fixed or rejected
<dholbach> Mortas: don't you get "edit bug status" in the right thing-let?
<Mortas> the only time I see 'status' on the page is on the top where it says 'New' most of the time under it
<ajmitch> Mortas: ah..
<ajmitch> Mortas: click on the package name in that line
<ajmitch> it's the most non-obvious thing
<ogra> hehe
<Mortas> that looks more like it
<ogra> well hidden :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<dholbach> could somebody proof-read UniverseBugs?
<ajmitch> and they've changed it a few times on us..
* ajmitch looks
<Mortas> ok goody
<Mortas> now to wait till I can see the motu assigned bugs again
<ajmitch> dholbach: a few grammar problems, but looks good
<dholbach> ajmitch: please change them, please please please :)
<ogra> dholbach, uh, why didnt you add that to HelpingWithBugs ... mdz is eager for content on that page
<dholbach> ogra: you read it?
<dholbach> ogra: it has mucho universe-stuff
<dholbach> ogra: i'll proceed with HelpingWithBugs
<ogra> yes, the What you can do? appliest to general bugtracking
<ogra> great :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: how about adding bug watches if it's in debian or upstream's bug tracker..
<dholbach> ah yes
<ajmitch> one of the useful malone features
<ogra> dholbach, also look at a bug from Diziet, he always puts a link in his bugs pointing to a nice page "how to submit bugs the right way" we can probably either link it there or copy stuff from it
<ogra> it has some helpful instructions...
<dholbach> can't you add it?
* ogra goes diggin for a Diziet bug ...
<dholbach> ROCK
<ajmitch> :)
<dholbach> a
<dholbach> ajmitch: did you change the grammar problems? or shall i reread and learn from my mistakes or something? ;)
* dholbach will reread
* dholbach will rewrite
<dholbach> :-p
<ajmitch> yay for dodgy dsl
* dholbach comforts ajmitch 
* ajmitch sobs
<Mortas> awww
<dholbach> ajmitch: it'll all be better soon :)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> when I move somewhere other than NZ
* ajmitch doesn't speak nearly enough german to move to .de :)
<Lathiat> move to australia, its where all the cool kids are
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I said decent DSL
<Lathiat> my bad
<tseng> har
<dholbach> my new dsl in berlin is soooooo good
<herve> come to France for probably the best telecom network :-)
<Treenaks> herve: ROFL
<herve> I mean it!
<Treenaks> herve: what's so good then?
<herve> I pay almost nothing for 18 MB + televison + illimited phone
<herve> almost all of the network is made of optical fibres
<herve> and there's a real competition between providers
<Treenaks> herve: oh it's the same here.. but 20mbit/telecom/television
* dholbach has no television
<Treenaks> herve: but 20mbit down/1mbit up is useless :)
<herve> hmm... b or B...
* ajmitch needs to get fixing & uploading - my karma is dropping again (it seems to expire with age)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: yes, like 2Mbit down/128Kbit up here
<Treenaks> ajmitch: find a real county :)
* dholbach -> lunch
<Treenaks> </lunch>
<ajmitch> Lathiat: assignedbugs is working fine for me
<pef> Lathiat: hello, are you working on kcheckgmail issue ?
<Lathiat> pef: not particularly, basically its broken i tried new debian its still broken
<pef> Lathiat: i'm trying to fix it, authentication protocol has changed
<Lathiat> pef: checked upstream cvs?
<pef> Lathiat: got timeout from sf cvs since yesterday :/
<Lathiat> pef: heh
<pef> Lathiat: but I don't see any changes since last release, http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/kcheckgmail/kcheckgmail/ChangeLog?rev=1.10&view=log
<pef> cvs works... very very slowly but it works
<pef> oh
<ajmitch> sleep time, night all
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch
<ogra> night ajmitch
<StrikeForce> is there a way I can find out who is workig on certain packages?
<StrikeForce> e.g. freenx
<ogra> StrikeForce, Mithrandir will work on freenx ...
<StrikeForce> oh ok
<ogra> StrikeForce, since its planned for main once all the strangeness is ripped out of the code...
<StrikeForce> ahh fair enough
<ogra> s/its/it once was/
<StrikeForce> ogra, who is good to talk to relating the python differences between kubuntu and ubuntu
<StrikeForce> I've seen 2-3 people have problems with the rufus package in kubuntu but I haven't seen it with ubuntu?
<ogra> i have no idea whats missing in kubuntu (i dont use it...) you should find someone who uses both worlds :)
<StrikeForce> lol
<StrikeForce> thats bloody hard :(
<ogra> nope, here are some people around that work on gnome and KDE...
<sn9> hi there again
<sn9> the powerpc ffmpeg .deb is no good
<sn9> ogra: word has it that i should be talikng to you
<shawarma> I've been thinking: In hoary, there was a bug in mplayer that made it impossible to play DVD's. Due to the only-security-fixes-are-accepted policy this was true all the way through hoary even though the fix was very simple.. Are we going to continue this policy in Breezy?
<sn9> i hope not
<sn9> of course, it's still impossible to "play" DVDs in mplayer
<sn9> that's by design
<slomo> sn9: yes? what doesn't work? ;)
<slomo> works for me...
<sn9> there is no access to DVDNAV
<sn9> you can only play individual titles
<shawarma> I understand it's hard to define "trivial bug fix" in a policy, but still.
<ogra> sn9, trivial fixes can go to breezy-updates... but they should be very trivial, very well tested and the code change shouldnt even come near a possibility that it could break
<slomo> sn9: yes... but that's a problem with mplayer itself... they don't support it afaik... but totem should be able to show menus
<ogra> sn9, ffmpeg that is
<shawarma> I don't think it's fair or even very clever to force users to live with broken software when the fix is trivial to implement and very clearly won't break anything else.
<shawarma> ogra: That would be ok?
<ogra> shawarma, how trivial ?
<ogra> shawarma, 1 line of code ?
<shawarma> ogra: Yup
<sn9> ogra: regarding ffmpeg, there is no code change involved; only a change to the build rules
<shawarma> ogra: Same for mplayer
<ogra> sn9, are you sure that it doesnt break anything ? did you test it on all arches extensively ?
<ogra> shawarma, same for mplayer^^^
<ogra> :)
<sn9> ogra: the fix, and the problem itself, are conditional on building for ppc
<ogra> sn9, that doesnt mean the new binary doesnt need testing ;)
<sn9> and it also depends on how you define "break"
<sn9> clearly the existing binary wasn't tested
<slomo> shawarma: show me the fix for mplayer please ;)
<shawarma> slomo: It's already fixed in breezy.
<shawarma> slomo: I'm talking about the ac3 bug in Hoary mplaer.
<shawarma> slomo: mplayer, even.
<slomo> shawarma: ok... that one :/
<slomo> sn9: and what's the ffmpeg problem?
<shawarma> I thought the policy was set in stone since noone bothered to upload the fix to hoary-updates even though the fix has been in malone since June or July..
<sn9> slomo: it uses memset(), thereby generating a SIGILL on G3s
<_Tonio_> hi all
<Lathiat> heh https://launchpad.net/products/gmailfs
<Lathiat> someone filed a bug as a product
<slomo> sn9: oh, another ppc user ;) can you show me the patch?
<sn9> slomo: unfortunately, the patch is rather horrid, but it takes care of the problem
<ogra> shawarma, wejust dont proritize hoary as high as the bugs for the next release, probably just nobody looked
<shawarma> ogra: I'm ALMOST sure I even put it on the Wiki (it was before REVU came along)...
<slomo> sn9: hmm... show it to me anyway ;) btw, why does memset() fail with a SIGILL on g3s? shouldn't be the case with the mplayer packages as they are compiled without altivec support atm, even the -g4 one
<shawarma> ogra: So I just hit the not-enough-people limitation, rather than a policy limitation?
<ogra> shawarma, still we have to care for the next release with higher proirity
<shawarma> ogra: Hmm... That changes everything.
<shawarma> sn9: Yeah, what's so bad about memset that it just SIGILL's?
<ogra> if you had 300 ppl hanging around here, there would be some bored ones among then that'd look into upadtes stuff more detailed...
<ogra> shawarma, so just get is 220 othe people and we are set ;)
<ogra> *other
<sn9> the fix is to put --disable-altivec on line 16 of debian/rules
<sn9> slomo: i'm referring to ffmpeg, not mplayer
<shawarma> I hang around a lot of Ubuntu users and when they hear I'm a member and stuff they always asked me about the DVD thing, and all I could tell them was "wait for the next release". I'd much rather have just fixed it and uploaded it myself.. Well, with REVU I suppose it'll be easier to attract attention to it.
<slomo> sn9: oh sorry... i definetly need more sleep ;) and yes, i saw that problem before but couldn't find somebody to really test it on a g3... the same should be done for gst-ffmpeg probably
<slomo> sn9: i thought that it maybe uses something like autodetection if altivec is available and falls back otherwise but i couldn't test it sadly :(
<sn9> nope, it's a ./configure option
<slomo> sn9: yes i noticed that... anyway, i will take care of it for dapper
<Mortas> hmm interesting, can see bug page as long as I'm not logged in
<Mortas> doh
<Kyral> Mornin'
<koke> wow, I just bought a wacom tablet and works nice in breezy out-of-the-box :)
<herve> nice to know, I'll retry my old graphire2
<zyga> koke: it worked out of the box on fedora 1
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zyga> koke: did you get two separate input devices for mouse/stylus?
<koke> last time I tried was about 2 years ago :)
<zyga> hi bddebian
<koke> before fedora and ubuntu IIRC
<bddebian> Hello zyga
<koke> in debian woody
<koke> but I can't find info to setup gimp to use pressure sensitivity
<koke> :(
<herve> last time I tried, the wheel worked backwards!
<bddebian> herve!!!
<herve> barry!!!
<bddebian> How have you been?
<herve> not so bad
<bddebian> Well we've missed you being around :-)
<herve> I missed you too :-)
<bddebian> suuuuuure ;-)
<freeflying> anyone know MartinPitt
<Treenaks> never heard of him
<\sh> pitti
<Treenaks> freeflying: he's pitti here :)
<freeflying> thanks
<\sh> ok...time to go home for today...
<\sh> bbl
<bddebian> freeflying: Isn't that pitti?
<freeflying> \sh tell me it's him
<freeflying> i want to talk with him something about cjk language support
<ogra> freeflying, i think he's gone for the day but this is the wrong channel to meet him...
<herve> except when we have problems :-)
<freeflying> which channel can i meet him?
<bddebian> We NEVER have problem ;-)
<bddebian> freeflying: #ubuntu-devel
<freeflying> thanks
<bddebian> Mark thinks we MOTU's are well organized?  They must have some good drugs in South Africa ;-P
<dholbach> where did he say that?
<bddebian> dholbach: A reply to ubuntu-devel ML to the Ghanian folks
<dholbach> ah cool :)
* ogra yays for dholbach's organization skills... :)
<dholbach> erm... welll ... erm ... :)
<ogra> must have been your work, i didnt organize anything :)
<herve> have we even have a leader? :)
<bddebian> Doh
<herve> ouch! malone sorts ids lexicographically, not numerically
* herve making more mistakes to make bddebian dohing!
<bddebian> :)
<Amaranth> herve: 1, 10, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9?
<herve> yes
<herve> bug reported
<herve> bug #1 44 weeks old and no one to fix it? :-)
<bddebian> Heh
<dholbach> guys, look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserContributedDebs
<ogra> DanielHolbach2 ? you and your split personality....
<dholbach> that's not, what i was referring to
<ogra> who is Coolaj86 ?
* ogra shudders about Coolaj86's wikipage
<ogra> why the heck does he want you to download the debs to /usr/local before installing ?
<dholbach> dunno
<dholbach> i just left the comment
<ogra> fine... did you consider 48pt font and blink tags ?
<ogra> would be worth it :)
<dholbach> dunno how to do that in the wiki
<ogra> you could also have pointed him to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreakMyUbuntu :) it still exists
<dholbach> *cry*
<ogra> you wont be able to avoid people doing strange things on the wiki :)
<Mortas> eeeuw it hurts
<Mortas> can't we burn those people?
<Mortas> just as a little hint
<dholbach> tststs
<dholbach> Mortas: you signed the CoC? :)
<dholbach> did you read it? :)
<dholbach> but i understand :)
<Mortas> a slight non insulting but slightly violent expression of my feelings
<Mortas> should be allowed :)
<Mortas> and I never read what I sign anyway
<Mortas> it removes the excitement otherwise
<TiMiDo> hey everyone
<dholbach> hi timido
<TiMiDo> wuz up dholbach
* TiMiDo wants to join the motu team
<dholbach> cool, did you read a bit on the motu wiki pages?
<TiMiDo> yes i did
* TiMiDo is a bx developer
<zenrox> TiMiDo,  bitchX
<zenrox> ???
<TiMiDo> yeah
<dholbach> then you already know what to do ;-)
<TiMiDo> aaron@bitchx.org
<zenrox> sweet
<dholbach> just kidding - what are you interested in?
<TiMiDo> yeah
<Loiosh> Heh
<occy> dholbach, howdy
<dholbach> hi occy
<TiMiDo> dholbach; doing anything as long i'm in the ubuntu community (:
<occy> dholbach, join #tango if you don't mind. ;)
<dholbach> TiMiDo: cool, bddebian is our workload minister, he surely has an idea of what to do
<occy> oops, forgot the magic word.
<bddebian> Heh
<occy> dholbach, please. :)
<TiMiDo> oh
<occy> hehe
<occy> peace peeps
<occy> zenrox, hey!
<occy> ;)
<zenrox> hay occy
<zenrox> just woke up and trying to roll a ciggy
<bddebian> Heh
<occy> zenrox, good day to stop smoking
<zenrox> and damn it wares the coffee
<occy> :P
<zenrox> lol
<zenrox> nope
<zenrox> not today
* zenrox wanders back to #ubuntuforums
* Loiosh chuckles at someone named DapperDrake.
<Loiosh> Nice =)
<TiMiDo> bob marley feat bone thugs - harmony - weed remix 3m29s 192 kbit/s  44100 Hz
* zakame still ponders on getting lighttpd to work
<dholbach> TiMiDo: you get cracking on some bug triage, if you'd like to
<TiMiDo> is the communitycouncil in a channel
<TiMiDo> or you have to be there
<dholbach> TiMiDo: Mortas started on it yesterday and there's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseBugs
<ogra> TiMiDo, you have to attend the meeting
<dholbach> TiMiDo: it's in #ubuntu-meeting, when there's a meeting
<TiMiDo> where is the meeting at
<ogra> CommunityCouncilAgenda
<TiMiDo> oh nice
<ogra> ^^^ wiki ^^^
<zakame> dholbach: pardon my ignorance, but how does one do triage? =)
<Loiosh> Heh
<dholbach> zakame: that's what i wrote the wiki page for :)
<bddebian> zakame: Break out the scalpel ;-P
<zakame> ah :D
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<ogra> and especially for universe bugs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<ogra> oops
<ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseBugs
<dholbach> :)
* Loiosh finishes up with work.
<ogra> dholbach, you should really merge them ... to avoid that i make such mistakes :p
<dholbach> ogra: i'm on it, but now the tango folks are asking me 246972946246 questions
<ogra> youre dancing ? oh, didnt know that
<dholbach> the icon giuys
<dholbach> guys
<ogra> ah
* zakame goes to sleep
<chillywilly> bah, my dpkg keeps segfaulting now
<chillywilly> actually dpkg-split is segfaulting
<\sh> re
<herve> ++
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> did I miss a meeting?
<\sh> no...today 20 UTC
* TiMiDo wants to be on the meeting
<TiMiDo> is it an open meeting or only member could join
<dholbach>  all meetings are open
<TiMiDo> oh nice
* TiMiDo is hoping to attend to the meeting
* dholbach just isnt sure, which meeting \sh is talking about
<TiMiDo> oh lol
<TiMiDo> is \sh a developer?
<Loiosh> Yes
<Nafallo> TB
<\sh> dholbach: TB
<\sh> dholbach: TechnicalBoardAgenda ;)
<\sh> it's strange that it isn't on the Calendar
<Nafallo> it isn't?
<Nafallo> the ical from the fridge has it atleast.
<\sh> Nafallo: the wiki not
<Nafallo> \sh: well, the fridge is the future anyway ;-)
<TiMiDo> when is drape going to be released for testing?
<Amaranth> damn, i won't be here in 3 hours
<ogra> TiMiDo, 2-3 minths
<TiMiDo> oh nice
<ogra> *months
* TiMiDo i wish i can be on the released my self, to help around
<ogra> but feel free to work on it before :)
<TiMiDo> yeah
<TiMiDo> that's what i'm going to do
<TiMiDo> ogra; what should i do?
<ogra> help fixing bugs... dholbach will lead you ... or wait some days until the archive is open and help fixing packaging bugs, merge buntu changes into debian packages etc
<TiMiDo> ok great
<Mortas> TiMiDo: you can join me on working through the motu bug list and trying to gather all the required info to fix it
<Mortas> keeps ya busy till the archives are open :)
<TiMiDo> sure
<Loiosh> Yay for upstream loving
<pef> I've made a patch to correct this issue http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=328515 and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/kcheckgmail/+bug/2018, how should I report my patch (apart uploading my new package to revu)
<dholbach> pef: attach the debdiff to the bug
<ogra> pef, revu is fine... and notify the debian developer
<ogra> (by doing what dholbach said)
<pef> ogra: and about upstream ? a patch submission ?
<dholbach> yeah, mail to the bug numbers in debian and on launchpad
<pef> but my patch is against a newer release version than the version present in Debian
<pef> so for the debdiff ...
<dholbach> hrm
<ogra> pef, so make a note in the bug that debian will need a new version for the patch
<dholbach> that's a bit problematic then
<dholbach> if it's not mergeable easily, you can still send a link to your patch saying what it is for
<ogra> the DD should upgrade it
<pef> ubuntu => upload to revu, set the bug to pending upload | debian => sending the patch to the maintainer, add a link to it into the bts entry | upstream: patch to the sf interface
<pef> right ?
<dholbach> ROCK
<ogra> YEAH
<pef> perfect :D
<pef> my first really significative patch to opensource world :D
* Loiosh claps! =)
<pef> :] 
* Loiosh is enrolling for a 401k, yay
<herzi> pef: congrats
<pef> herzi: thank you :)
<herzi> who in here has got a router/firewall (this is a "in one machine" slash) driven by ubuntu?
<Nafallo> herzi: memememe :-)
<herzi> Nafallo: how do you save/restore the iptables settings?
<herzi> do you call iptables-{save,restore} manually?
<Nafallo> herzi: I run my own script :-)
<herzi> okay
<herzi> can you send it to herzi@abi02.de, please; i'm currently working on a small package and I'd like to see how others worked on this (to see a bit more than what I think is good)
<zenrox> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=76713 <---woohoo updated
<Nafallo> herzi: sent
<ogra> herzi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT there is a hint ;)
<ogra> with iptables-save and iptables-restore
<LaserJock> should bug fixes be made for breezy until dapper gets going?
<TiMiDo> great another hurricane on Miami
<TiMiDo> that's Great
<dholbach> LaserJock: some where already uploaded
<dholbach> LaserJock: but -updates and -security are for severe stuff
<TiMiDo> damn hurricanes
<TiMiDo> saturday there's a hurricane coming this way
<dereks__> hey guys, good work on the deskbar
<dereks__> i love it
<tseng> thank kikidonk
<tseng> we dont really write software here
<dereks__> tseng: it looks like you guys did a lot of the integrating, no?
<tseng> dholbach perhaps
<dereks__> like with ubuntu package search and beagle and what not
<tseng> but i thought it was there
<tseng> meh
<dereks__> i dunno
<Amaranth> ubuntu package search is just a firefox bookmark like the google search one
<Amaranth> and i think it already did integration with beagle
<dereks__> ohh... i am talking to kikidonk now
* ogra doesnt ever see kikidonk mentioned in any of the uploads
<ogra> i rather think credits for the breezy integration go to dholbach
<tseng> ogra: kikidonk wrote it so
<ogra> tseng, yes, he's upstream
<tseng> yes
<dereks__> haha both deserver credit :)
<ogra> (or she ? )
<tseng> meh
<dereks__> seems to me kikidonk  = gentoo user
<ogra> just made me curious since i had in mind that only Mithrandir and dholbach uploaded it
<Mortas> is there a way to flag a bug as 'need more info' or 'needs feedback' on malone?
<Mortas> there are a few bugs there that have a 'reporter could you please test version X because this seems to fix the issue' and then no reply for days
<Mortas> to group those together so they can be closed after while
<pef> bye !
<LaserJock> dholback: sorry, wan't paying attention ;-) What if I want to post a debdiff for a Malone bug? Should I just use breezy for now? I know it won't get in until dapper.
<Kyral> Yo
<Kyral> ....brb....nature...calls...
<dholbach> LaserJock: yes
<Kyral> back
<Kyral> Dang LaserJock, leave some bugs for me ;P
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Loiosh> Hewwo! =)
<dholbach> hi sistpoty
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<\sh> KraetziChriZ: no..i didn't check until now klibido
<KraetziChriZ> ok :)
<KraetziChriZ> thank you...
<\sh> I just came back again from work
<KraetziChriZ> i come from an LAN-Pardy with my friends
<KraetziChriZ> i am "gerdert" :P
<ogra> \sh, congrats
<Kyral> mmm
<ogra> you obviously made it in time :)
* Kyral wonders if he should work on Universe Canditates
<sivang> ~1 hr for TB meeting right?
<ogra> Kyral, sure, but keep in mind that the underlying libs might change ;)
<\sh> ogra: well...no fun at all...tomorrow we have to check all krypton scramblers for broken configuration and I found a new SA krypton software bug....
<Kyral> Where is that anyway?
<ogra> Kyral, on the wiki
<sivang> \sh: krypton is Superman's home planet, no?
<\sh> sivang: 45 mins
<ogra> Kyral, or did you mean the meeting ?
<Kyral> orga: Thats what being the package maintainer is all about isn't it ;P
<Kyral> meeting ;P
<ogra> thats in #ubuntu-meeting
<\sh> sivang: well..yes, but no for scientific atlanta scramber hard+software
<sivang> eh I see.
<ogra> Kyral, we dont have *the* package mainainer... :)
<\sh> scrambler even
<ogra> its teamwork... nobody has really personalized packages
<Kyral> orga: I meant the maintainer in Ubuntu ;P
<Kyral> Ie: Original changes, the guy who updates the Ubuntu package ;P
<ogra> Kyral, there is no "maintainer" for a particular package
<\sh> Kyral: there is only the guy who broke the package again ,-)
<ogra> if i upload a package to universe and it has a bug, feel frr to fix it and upload :)
<ogra> *free
<Loiosh> Hehe
<ogra> we dont *own* packages like in debian
<Loiosh> Love Ubuntu-style
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/mgp/+bug/3297/ <-- I confirmed, should I changed it to accepted?
<Kyral> I'm trying to fix it ATM
<ogra> if you keep up with it, then accept it...
<Kyral> I'll try to fix it ;P
<ogra> Kyral, looks like an easy fix :)
<Kyral> orga I know nothing about AutoTools ;P
<Kyral> Which this seems to use
<ogra> just move the binary to /usr/bin in the package.. thats not an autotools thing
<Kyral> oyah...
<Kyral> in rules right?
<ogra> you can do everything in the debian dir of the package here
<Kyral> I know that :D
<ogra> in .install or if it doesnt have that in rules...
<Kyral> install-sh
<Kyral> but why would some binaries get placed in /usr/X11R6/bin and others in /usr/bin?
<Kyral> I'll confirm. If I fix it I will Accept it ;P
<LaserJock> what is the convention for versioning bug fixes?
<ajmitch> morning all
<bddebian> LaserJock: You mean like Xubuntu1
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> I see that soyuz stuff has landed
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/avahi
<LaserJock> bddebian: seems like I read on a wiki page that it should be XubuntuYbuild1 or something like that
<ajmitch> or is in the process of landing ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: then that wiki page is wrong
<LaserJock> so it should be Xubuntu(Y+1)?
<ajmitch> if it was 1.2.3-4, then it should be 1.2.3-4ubuntu1
<LaserJock> ok, good, that is what I have been doing but I swear I saw that on a wiki page somewhere (can't find it at the moment)
<ogra> or if its not in debian yet 1.2.3-0ubuntu1
<dholbach> LaserJock: buildN is if you have a plain debian package and just rebuild it (and don't do anything else)
<ogra> if and only if its only a rebuild to reflect a fix in a lib or something, then you do Xbuild1
<LaserJock> dholbach: aaahhh, ok maybe that is what I was thinking of
<ogra> the merge scripts respect ubuntuX versions, but ignore buildX versions
<dholbach> ok, i take a walk until the meeting
<dholbach> brb
<bddebian> Oh yeah, meeting..
<ogra> so buildX will just get synced from debian, but ubuntuX will wait for manual sync
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I can't find any reason why this is doing this
* ajmitch waves to ogra & dholbach 
<ogra> heya ajmitch
<Kyral> except I can't find where its defining $(BINDIR)
<LaserJock> what is the difference between a control and control.in ?
<ajmitch> hi :)
<dholbach> hi andrew :)
<ogra> control.in is from hell... its evil
<LaserJock> well, what do I do with it? can I ignore it or do I have to work with it?
<ogra> its used by some group maintained packages in debian to fill in the maintainer field dynamically
<ogra> LaserJock, you talk about ontrol.in in the debian dir, right ?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> right now the only problem is the .in file doesn't have dpatch as a build deb but the plain control does
<ogra> if you want to edit the control file, you have to edit control.in
<ogra> .in == input file
<\sh> aeh
<\sh> it sounds like cdbs with control maintaining system enabled...
<ogra> eeek
* ogra runs as fast as he can
<\sh> LaserJock: check the rules file
<LaserJock> maybe somebody edited the control file and not the control.in file last because dpatch is in control but not control.in
<\sh> LaserJock: whats written in front of all include statements?
<\sh> LaserJock: is there something like @cdbs@ in the control.in?
<LaserJock> no, stuff like wx=V-headers and (= ${Source-Version})
<\sh> LaserJock: which package?
<LaserJock> no @cdbs@ that I can see
<LaserJock> wxwidgets2.6
<whiprush> dholbach: bug day announcement <-- fridged
<LaserJock> I can add dpatch to the control.in but I thought maybe something else was going on
<ogra> LaserJock, whats the bug # ?
<LaserJock> 3252, it's not anything big
<Kyral> What the hell is "Imakefile.in"?
<ogra> LaserJock, we dont ship wxpython2.5.3
<bddebian> xmkmf
<LaserJock> python-wxversion should confilct/replace with wxpython2.5.3
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> ogra: yes that is right, it is only for people upgrading
<ogra> not even them...
<ogra> only for people that played with broken breezy stuff ;)
<LaserJock> no? well should I reject it then?
<bddebian> Kyral: They are processed by xmkmf
<ogra> 2,5 wasnt in hoary...
<ajmitch> ogra: it was in hoary
<Kyral> Now what is xmkmf?
<ogra> what ?
<ajmitch> iirc :)
<ajmitch> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=wxpython2.5.3
<ogra> LaserJock, anyway, to be polite you can add a replaces to be polite :)
<dholbach> whiprush: ROCK, merci beaucoup
<LaserJock> well, in this bug the guy says he went from Warty to Breezy
<bddebian> Kyral: kind of a make package for X packages
<\sh> LaserJock: add dpatch to control.in
<ajmitch> ogra: so sadly we missed that conflicts/replaces
<Kyral> Well I think its why somethings are being installed into /usr/X11R6/bin...
<bddebian> Kyral: Yes
<Kyral> Time to hack it
<ogra> ajmitch, eeek, youre right it *was* in hoary...
<Kyral> They ain'
* ogra cant belive it
<LaserJock> ok, just to be clear should it be both replaces and conflicts or just one
<Kyral> supposed to be there, which is what the bug is
<Kyral> What do I edit to make it go to /usr/bin?
<ogra> LaserJock, i think both to make sure 2.5.3 gets removed...
<bddebian> Kyral: it should get pulled from the X11.rules stuff unless it has it's own inside the package like xprint-xorg does
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, thanks
<Kyral> and I don't see anything like that...
<Kyral> so I gotta modify the package...to not use xmkmf...
<bddebian> Kyral: No, apt-get install xmkmf ;-)
<ogra> afaik daniels planed to get rid of xmkmf if possible
<Kyral> bddebian, the bug is that binaries install into /usr/X11R6/bin, instead of /usr/bin
<bddebian> Kyral: You should get files in: etc/X11/config/cf/ then
<ogra> as soon as dapper opens Xorg will break again as much other stuff
<bddebian> Kyral: What package?
<Kyral> mgp
<Kyral> I have an X11.c in the package...
<bddebian> Kyral: Does it call xmkmf with the defaults?
<Kyral> I'm trying to find out...
<LaserJock> I only put the conflicts/replaces on python-wxversion because that was what was in the bug but should I include it in the other places where there are conflicts/replaces?
<bddebian> Kyral: Doesn't debian/rules call it?
<ogra> Kyral, look for dh_install in rules and for .install files in the debian dir... you dont need to touch the code to change the location where the binary gets installed
<ogra> do nothing outside the debian dir ...
<ogra> its no necessary
<Kyral> Unless my eyes are shot, there isn't dh_install in rules
<Kyral> nor are there any .install files in debian/
<ogra> how does rules install the stuff then... there might just be cp or mv commands moving the compiled stuff around
<dholbach> whiprush: thanks for putting it nicely
<whiprush> well, I tried.
<whiprush> need practice I guess.
<Kyral> install -d install -m
<bddebian> Kyral: I'm pulling the source, give me a sec :-)
<Kyral> and nowhere is there a mention of xmkmf...
<Kyral> Why can't people just use Autotools and makefiles...
<Kyral> thanks for your help bddebian and orga :D
<bddebian> Kyral: Look at debian/rules.  Right after ./configure...
<Kyral> yah?
<Kyral> oh..
* Kyral smacks himself on the head
<Kyral> I'm an idiot ;P
<Kyral> Just nuke the line?
<bddebian> Kyral: NO
<Kyral> okay...
<bddebian> Kyral: It looks like it's calling xmkmf with defaults so if you rebuild with the newer xmkmf, it might just pick up the correct paths
<bddebian> Look at: etc/X11/config/cf/X11.rules
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> this may be why PBuilder wasn't giving me what I needed...
<Kyral> and it didn't pick up on the right paths...and my system is up to date...
<phanatic> hi
<bddebian> Kyral: You installed xmkmf?
<Kyral> yah, I can man it ;P
<phanatic> i'd like to package something. could somebody help me? (not looking for answers to trivial questions, but a bit of advocacy)
<Kyral> Maybe if I append the "-a" option to the command in rules (You think I'm shooting in the dark here? I am ;P)
<bddebian> OK, they might be overriding the paths somewhere
<bddebian> Kyral: That might work actually
<Kyral> yah, the manpage suggests that it might
<Kyral> here goes :D
<ivoks> \sh: ping
<ivoks> \sh: there allready is kernel source in ubuntu main (?)
<ivoks> \sh: and it's supported in the same way as images
<\sh> ivoks: ah well..I was thinking about another type of support...but later
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> it didn't work
<ivoks> \sh: btw, people with >10 systems (as my self) don't have time to compile kernel for every machine - we use stock distribution kernel
<ivoks> easier to maintain
<\sh> ivoks: well...with 3000 servers we used cfengine to deploy the kernels...took not much time ;)
<\sh> ivoks: with all machines of the same type and hardware
<\sh> ivoks: but now for the TB
<ivoks> \sh: and when you find remote bug
<ivoks> you have to compile it again
<\sh> ivoks: takes only a couple of minutes to compile a new one ;)
<ivoks> it's better to use stock kernel
<ivoks> \sh: no, you have to test it and, eventually deploy it
<ivoks> \sh: it takes more then few minutes/hours
<ajmitch> no bmonty again today?
<\sh> ivoks: that's the work of actually 20 people at ops :)
<ivoks> \sh: the problem is that we will have a hard time supporting every kernel some admin can create
<ivoks> we should avoid that
<\sh> ivoks: and when u work for a company which is dealing with special things sometimes it's better to have a hard monolitic kernel...
<ivoks> \sh: i've heard so many stories how one can penetrate trough modules - i've never heard one success story :)
<\sh> ivoks: that's why I said: Kernel Source base of ubuntu...all modules have to be tested in "monolitic kernel" and "module kernel"
<ivoks> \sh: all? ????
<\sh> ivoks: we had this problem...once...
<ivoks> i can guarantee that zoran module won't compile :)
<pef> :
<\sh> ivoks: so the module is broken :) but now we have important stuff at -meeting :) lets discuss this later :) dude :)
<ivoks> kernel has too many broken parts to test all combinations
<ivoks> didn't know it's meeting
<\sh> sistpoty: ping you there? -meeting now :) get your motu status ;)
<\sh> bmonty: TB meeting now...get your motu status
<ajmitch> \sh: what status can I get?
<bddebian> STUDMUFFIN
<\sh> ajmitch: you will get the "I can drink a beer with \sh"-Status ;)
<ajmitch> YAY!
<ajmitch> bddebian: no thanks
<ajmitch> I'd rather have the beer
<\sh> that's even more then a motu status *lol*
<pef> ogra, hello
<ogra> pef, meeting currently...
<pef> ogra, yep :) do you think I've done enough work to apply for motu status ?
<ogra> there are a lot packages tagged with your name... i'd think so
<pef> :)
<dholbach> pef: that would be for next meeting, but i'd be happy to see you there too :)
<pef> dholbach, nice, I will add myself to motu candidates on wiki
<Kyral> Wait a sec...
<pef> and if someone has some free time... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=800 new upstream+ patch for kcheckgmail (fully fonctionnal now)
<Kyral> *SMACK!* I haven't been remaking the package when I'm trying to change these...
<Kyral> no wonder non of my changes don't work...
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> none of them work ;P
<bddebian> Heh
<Kyral> NOW Lets see if adding -a to xmkmf works :D
<Kyral> ...but they are still being installed to /usr/X11R6/bin...
<Kyral> I have half a mind to add a bunch of mv commands to the end of the install sequence in rules to fix this...
<Kyral> It would be a hack, but it would be a hack that WORKED ;P
<\sh> sistpoty: well done dude :) now for the real fun ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<Kyral> sistpoty, got in?
<sistpoty> yippieh :)... thx
<Kyral> Nice Dude
<bddebian> Kyral: Yep
<Kyral> Drinks are on you I think :D
<\sh> after all this time...finally
* Kyral heads back to trying to fix this infernal thing
<sistpoty> hehe... now universe is all mine *eg*
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> well done, sistpoty
<Kyral> Anyone object to me putting a bunch of mv commands in debian/rules to move the files to the right place?
<sistpoty> thx dholbach :)
<tseng> Kyral: uh
<tseng> dh_install
<Kyral> its not in the rules file...
<tseng>        dh_install is a debhelper program that handles installing files into
<dholbach> Kyral: dh_install is better, but comments are fine
<tseng>        package build directories.
<LaserJock> congrats sistpoty, that seemed kinda tough
<Kyral> just about every variant of it is, but not "dh_install"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that was gentle
<LaserJock> yeah, I suppose
<Kyral> I know what dh_install is
<LaserJock> That is why I will never be a MOTU ;(
<ajmitch> you should see a grilling to get onto the ubuntu-core-dev team :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: rubbish
<tseng> my grilling was like
<sistpoty> lol ajmitch ;)
<tseng> "i think he is the bees knees"
<tseng> and we were done
<Kyral> LaserJock, hey you can get in
<Kyral> I wanna get in too :D
* ajmitch remembers being rejected by ogra first time round
<tseng> for core?
<Kyral> You think I would fight with this thing for so long for fun? ;P
<dholbach> sistpoty will rule dapper-changes :)
<ajmitch> tseng: for MOTU
<ogra> ajmitch, really ? did i ?
<ajmitch> ogra: you did
<tseng> ogra: harsh
<ogra> oh, sorry for that...
<ajmitch> I hadn't really done much :)
<ogra> i cant even remember, it seems ages ago
<ajmitch> so it was warranted
<ajmitch> it was months ago
<ajmitch> we're old hands now
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> I just don't think I have time for the sustained contribution. I am trying to get my PhD, I just don't have time (or skills) to do what you MOTU do.
<LaserJock> mostly the skills part
<dholbach> LaserJock: you'll manage :)
<ajmitch> bddebian always says that too
<ajmitch> yet he's probably done the most
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<ajmitch> so we expect bddebian to be undisputed king of dapper
<LaserJock> no doubt there ;-)
<bddebian> Heh, yeah right.  Most of the main folks barely speak to me. ;-P
<pietrus> i thought bddebian was a god
<ajmitch> he is
<tseng> bddebian: i speak to you
<bddebian> tseng: :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I speak to you
<bddebian> pietrus: Not even close :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: You got your rights? ;-P
<ajmitch> even \sh speaks to you
<tseng> bddebian: lets have a KOP keysigning/dinner event
<bddebian> Well he used too :-)
<bddebian> tseng: Aye, definetely
<ajmitch> so yeah, I have to go
<bddebian> Later ajmitch
<LaserJock> cya ajmitch
<sistpoty> later ajmitch
<tseng> i think i will be stuck at work all night
<bddebian> Ugh :-(
<Kyral> Okay I gotta go get food then practice
<Kyral> If anyone fixes this mgp package, tell me how you did it
<bddebian> Kyral: I'll try to take a look and see if I can "help" :-)
<Kyral> As I learn more I'll get better. I'm just a beginner ;P
<Kyral> and if all else fails, I can just add a bunch of symlinks at the end...
<bddebian> Kyral: We are all learning, always :-)
<Kyral> By this time next year, I'll be a MOTU. Mark my words!
<bddebian> w00t
<Kyral> I should have really checked sid to see if there is a fix there...
<LaserJock> dang, there are so many questions for mjg59. It's like oral comprehensives all over again ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I should sit in on one of those
<Kyral> But I think I should focus on Ubuntu Membership first
<bddebian> AYe
<LaserJock> Kyral, yeah I'm thinking about that too
<Kyral> Which should be easy, seeing how long I've been active in the Forums for
<Kyral> I make it a point not to let a day go by without solving someone's problem there ;P
<bddebian> Kyral: Did you join the NewUserNetwork team?
<Kyral> ehh nope
<Kyral> Hmm, has anyone tackled Dark Oberon in the Universe Candidates yet?
<bddebian> Nope
<Kyral> Its MINE :D
<Kyral> ....do we like the ZLib License?
<Kyral> bddebian, you suggest I join NuN?
<bddebian> Kyral: You may want to talk to Nalioth.  I'm not even sure it's still around.  A lot of the members abondoned it, including myself :-(
<Kyral> It is, at least the channel is
<Kyral> and the wiki
<Kyral> and the Launchpad Team
* ajmitch returns
<tseng> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<ajmitch> I see the mjg59 grilling is still going
<ajmitch> any good questions to ask him?
<LaserJock> yes, it is quite interesting
<Kyral> Can someone send me a log of this?
<LaserJock> there is a websit
<LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<LaserJock> it has all the channels
<Kyral> Anyway food calls
<crimsun> neat, I can vote, but I can't upload a gpg key *g
<bddebian> Heh
<Nafallo> haha
<ajmitch> it's like you can vote, enlist, go off to war, but you can't drink ;)
<dholbach> sleep tight MOTUs :)
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<bddebian> Later Daniel
<ajmitch> night
<bddebian> Oh well I suppose I should head home.  Later gang
<ajmitch> bye bddebian
<crimsun> cya barry
<ajmitch> great, the last comment in the meeting log mdz posted was the pony comment ;)
<TiMiDo> hey everyone
<Loiosh> Hewwo, Tim =)
<TiMiDo> here here
<Unfrgiven> morning all
<ajmitch> morning Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: how are you?
<ajmitch> good, good
<ajmitch> how are you today?
<Unfrgiven> good :)
<Unfrgiven> where am I supposed to vote from? (for mjg59's tech board)
<Unfrgiven> errr mjg59 into tech board
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: planning to attack dapper with a vengeance?
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: yes well definately contribute more than i did for breezy
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-16
<ajmitch> Toadstool: usual procedure is to let one of the MOTU UVF team know
<Toadstool> ajmitch: and you're part of that team? :)
<pygi> Toadstool: are you reading pm's ? :P
<Toadstool> pygi: yup
<pygi> oki, please respond then :)
<ajmitch> Toadstool: sure
<ajmitch> Toadstool: it helps if we know what's been uploaded when kamion asks for approval
<Toadstool> yup, then there will be a gnomebaker upload in a few minutes
<ajmitch> as I can tell :)
<Toadstool> heh
<Toadstool> pygi: pdebuild-ing
* imbrandon waves
<bhale> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> ello bhale
<imbrandon> nick change?
<bhale> yes
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> you should let me have brandon ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<bhale> someone has it
<bhale> i believe
<imbrandon> yea , i thought it was you
* imbrandon checks
<bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]             Nickname: brandon
<bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]           Registered: 1 year 6 weeks 5  days (3h 24m 46s) ago
<bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]            Last Seen: 4 days (9h 19m 42s)  ago (brandon|around seen 4 days (9h 19m 42s) ago)
<bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]    Last Seen Address:  n=brandon@72.158.105.2
<bhale> its not me
<bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]             Nickname: Tseng
<bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]           Registered: 3 years 37 weeks 4  days (22h 9m 26s) ago
<bhale> he's too new :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> iirc he does linux stuff but not ubuntu
<imbrandon> i talked to him long ago when i registerd on freenode
<bhale> i know several brandon's
<bhale> but not this one
<imbrandon> bhale, you comming to mtv ?
<bhale> no
<imbrandon> ahh darn ;(
<bhale> i'd rather have my appendix put back and removed again
<bhale> sorry.
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<imbrandon> he registered just before me
<imbrandon> [17:59]  [Notice]  -NickServ-            Nickname: imbrandon << ONLINE >>
<imbrandon> [17:59]  [Notice]  -NickServ-          Registered: 1 year 12 weeks 5 days (20h 14m 55s) ago
<bhale> the best part of that was waking up with no appendix, and finding out you are just as sick as when you started
<imbrandon> well with this nick, i had another a few years back i let expire
<bhale> (and sliced open twice)
<imbrandon> lol
<bhale> family guy preempted by baseball
<imbrandon> i just got done watching the cheifs get slaughtered
<bhale> baseball starts 9 months ago or something
<bhale> it never ends
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> there is a short off season
<bhale> its called spring training
* imbrandon used to want to play pro baseball in highschool, and at that time i probably could have if i stuck to it
<bhale> oh good, MythBusters is on
<imbrandon> you know i ment mountain view cali not music television right brandon ?
<imbrandon> lol
<bhale> yes
<bhale> Ubuntu Lockin 6
<imbrandon> kk just thought i would make sure with all the tv talk ;)
<imbrandon> hahah Lockin , havent thought about that in a long time
<bhale> thats what it is
<imbrandon> basicly yea , heh
<imbrandon> wb LaserJock
<bhale> yay LaserJock
<imbrandon> hum , i need some extra contract work *thinks*
<LaserJock> hi everybody
<imbrandon> how go's it LaserJock
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know
<LaserJock> I'm kinda sick of reading "Why do you ignore feature/user group/package X ?"
<imbrandon> heh, me too , but i kinda just give them a generic answer and go on
<imbrandon> just do what i can
<imbrandon> i hate it when it creeps up 2 weeks before release, i'm like youve had 4 months to mention this before
<LaserJock> mhm
<imbrandon> then they get all pissy
<LaserJock> well, I don't want to tell people "We simply don't have time or resources" cause then it sounds like Ubuntu is in really bad shape
<LaserJock> but that's usually exactly what happens
<imbrandon> well it is true, we are limited
<imbrandon> as bad as it sounds its not really "bad"
<imbrandon> but thats hard to explain , i hear ya
<imbrandon> my latest plight is trying to make libgpod work with the new ipods without introducing a new version
<LaserJock> it's also a catch 22
<imbrandon> this late in the cycle
<LaserJock> as you need people to test and report bugs
<imbrandon> seems apple has pushed a new firmware
<LaserJock> but then it becomes harder to fix bugs becuase we are trying to stabalize
<imbrandon> LaserJock, exactly
<LaserJock> I don't know how people can stand more then 1 or 2 releases
<Toadstool> pygi: great! the patch attached to the bug report is not complete :p
<pygi> Toadstool: ehm?!
<Toadstool> hey LaserJock & imbrandon
<LaserJock> hi Toadstool
<pygi> what happened!!?
<Toadstool> pygi: device.h modification is missing in the patch attached to the bug
<pygi> o joy, is the upstream (SF bug attachment) patch complete?
<Toadstool> I don't know, I took the diff directly in the cvs
<imbrandon> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> pygi: ok, with the missing chunk, it builds fine ;)
<pygi> good :P
<Toadstool> you sure you tested that patch thoroughly? :p
<LaserJock> we're supposed to test things? ;-)
<Toadstool> heh
<Toadstool> pygi: uploaded
<pygi> Toadstool: yes, the patch works 100%
<slomo> imbrandon: for ipod stuff look at libipoddevice, the new version works with the new firmware but it's not really a trivial change
<imbrandon> slomo, yea the new version of libgpod does too ( that amarok uses ) but this late in the cycle i hate for a main uvf ( and doubt it would go though anyhow )
<slomo> imbrandon: i don't think it will be approved too ;) i asked for a far more trivial upload earlier today and got a "no" as answer
<imbrandon> i have a amarok package on imbrandon.com that has the stuff for mtp and mp4v2 enabled from multiverse for people that need it to make their devices work i might just put it there for now
<imbrandon> and worry about a "better fix" for edgy+1
<imbrandon> and then backport it if someoen requests it
<imbrandon> i hate to go that route but this late it seems to be the only good option
<imbrandon> sides it will give me some good feedback for when it does get uploaded ;)
<shawarma> slomo: Do you think you could do a no-change upload of texlive-bin? See bug #65658
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65658 in texlive-bin "pdflatex: symbol lookup error: pdflatex: undefined symbol: _ZN4Dict3addERK10UGooStringP6Object" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65658
<shawarma> slomo: If a no-change upload can't get an exception I don't know what can. :-)
<slomo> shawarma: thanks for noticing... i'll care for it :) ajmitch, what do you think? ;)
<shawarma> slomo: I tend to notice when my university project report fails to compile. :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I wondered
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know off hand how long Gnome has been around?
<whiprush> 1997-ish
<bhale> hi whiprush
<bhale> LaserJock: shortly after KDE
<LaserJock> huh, I thought it was later
<bhale> i started using it in 98-99
<LaserJock> I was probably using minux about that time ;-)
<LaserJock> more likely Debian on ~11 floppy disks
<bhale> i spent a week downloading redhat at 28.8
<LaserJock> yeah, I wasn't that excited
<LaserJock> I just wanted a shell to play around with
<LaserJock> it wasn't until I started grad school that I really started using Linux
<LaserJock> :/
* pygi was using slack as always :P
<ajmitch> slomo: you're on the uvf team, you can decide :)
<ajmitch> afternoon all
<LaserJock> I never even tried slack
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<shawarma> slack was my first distro as well. I was young and nave back then.
<shawarma> I found my first Linux CD's a couple of months ago. They were from '96, I think.
<LaserJock> the first distro I used for more then 1 month was Gentto
<shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, dear. When was this?
<imbrandon> only becosue it took more than a month to compile the desktop
<imbrandon> ;)
<shawarma> heh :-)
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> that was 2002
<shawarma> n00b!
<LaserJock> I used Gentoo for about 2 years
<shawarma> :-P
<shawarma> :-)
<LaserJock> I really liked it
<imbrandon> LaserJock, and still never got kde to boot ?
<imbrandon> hehe \
* imbrandon ducks
<LaserJock> gentoo rocked dude
<LaserJock> things "just worked"
<imbrandon> yea i know, i use it on some servers here
<imbrandon> but its a pita
<LaserJock> and it had all the apps I wanted
<LaserJock> but yeah, I was a KDE guy back then
<shawarma> LaserJock: What are you doing here then?
<LaserJock> and recompiling all of KDE all the time ...
<imbrandon> not fun
<LaserJock> shawarma: I had no need for a source distro
<LaserJock> bad as it may seem, Ubuntu is like binary Gentoo for me ;-)
<shawarma> LaserJock: Someone told me that you don't *have* to compile everything yourself under Gentoo.
<imbrandon> shawarma, no you dopnt have to you can use grp packages if you want stuff thats months out of date
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> maybe more
<imbrandon> the kde grp packages are still 3.4 last i looked
<imbrandon> etc
<LaserJock> I was never into Gentoo for the performance, I never could tell much of a difference
<LaserJock> I just liked having all programs I use
<LaserJock> and I liked the forum community ;-)
<imbrandon> food time, bbaib
<pygi> sharms: slack rocks
<shawarma> I've never been too much of a forum person.
<pygi> sharms: I used it since '95
<shawarma> win 1
<shawarma> grrr..
<shawarma> Oh, dear. It's 2 AM again. I should go to bed.
<shawarma> g'night, all!
<imbrandon> gnight
<LaserJock> cya shawarma
<LaserJock> pygi: any particular feature that makes slack rock?
<pygi> LaserJock: it those days, ofcourse :)
<LaserJock> I always avoided it because I didn't see any real package mangement
<pygi> ah
<Amaranth> there is no dependency management
<Amaranth> i don't know if what they have qualifies as package management either
<pygi> :P
<pygi> slack packages actually allow dependencies
<pygi> and you can take advantage of them using swaret or slapt-get
<pygi> but nevermind, we're ubuntu here :)
<LaserJock> hmm
* LaserJock realizes he doesn't really get C++ .h files
<pygi> ok, sleep time
<pygi> 2:36 AM
<pygi> will sleep two hours again
<LaserJock> yikes
<pygi> night
<crimsun> LaserJock: sorry, just remembered an earlier question. Try Thinking in C++, 2nd Ed., here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/eckel/
<LaserJock> crimsun: cool, thanks
<LaserJock> I'm trying to dive into an established project
<LaserJock> and trying to make head or tails of it
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<crimsun> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> hrm anyone know the issue why faad2 in is multiverse and not universe, it dosent look to be a dependacy issue, so i'm guessing its with the program/lib its self
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought it had non-free stuff
<imbrandon> probably but i'm trying to see what exactly, becosue its has aac support and aac is iirc open source etc
<imbrandon> thinking maybe i can do a dfsg version of it
<imbrandon> *hopes*
<imbrandon> if its just a small part of it thats not dfsg etc
<crimsun> imbrandon: it's patent-encumbered and we can't even legally distribute modified source.
<slomo> imbrandon: patent reasons
<imbrandon> faad2 or aac ?
<slomo> aac
<slomo> patented like all the mpeg stuff
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> iirc aac was open, i guess i was wrong /me *thinks*
<slomo> it's "open" as in the specs are open, etc
<slomo> but still the techniques (?) are patented
<crimsun> gah, xmms is still in main?
<ajmitch> I have no idea why
<imbrandon> i would hope not heh
<ajmitch>       xmms | 1.2.10+cvs20060429-1ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Packages
<ajmitch> you'd think not, by now..
<slomo> probably the last thing in main that can decode mp3 ;)
<crimsun> (and libmad)
<slomo> oh mad is still there too...
<imbrandon> hehe amarok can with 2 clicks now ;) /me is happy about that one
<imbrandon> crap flac isnt free either ? man i need to study up some more
<slomo> hmm, k3b, akode and libtunepimp are keeping it in main... so only because of kde stuff ;)
<crimsun> flac is unencumbered last I checked
<slomo> there were rumours that something in flac is patented but nobody could proove it
<imbrandon> hum i wonder why its in extra-codecs then
<imbrandon> i'm trying to do a little background work for this spec and get a clear ".plan" for the kde side for mtv
<imbrandon> ( and just generaly becouse its needed )
<imbrandon> but codecs are a mess it seems , well mostly
<slomo> imbrandon: in extracodecs i only have ffmpeg, faad and mad
<crimsun> not sure where you're getting flac in extracodecs
<crimsun> libxine1: /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.2/xineplug_flac.so
<imbrandon> slomo, well xine engine ( specificly amarok-xine ) wont play a *.flac without libxine-extracodecs
<imbrandon> hrm
<slomo> interesting
<slomo> any idea why?
<imbrandon> no , thats what i'm trying to find out now
<slomo> ok :)
<imbrandon> seems it should
<imbrandon> anyone else here wanna confirm what i just said ?
<slomo> probably another case of xine not happy with the splitted situation...
<imbrandon> e.g try to play a flac without libxine-extracodecs
<imbrandon> to make sure i'm not a corner case somehow and it is truely a problem
<imbrandon> before i dig way into it
<slomo> one moment
<slomo> ok, confirmed here...
<imbrandon> kk good, well not good but makin sure
* slomo just hates xine a little bit more ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> why couldent i notice these things a few weeks ago before RC
* imbrandon mubles
<slomo> maybe because it uses ffmpeg for decoding of flac
<imbrandon> possibly
<LaserJock> hmm, what's do you get with an avahi-enabled gaim?
<Lathiat> LaserJock: ability to talk on the network with other people
<Lathiat> e.g. they come up in your contact list etc
<DarkMageZ> :o is edgy's gaim built with this?
<LaserJock> on the local network?
<LaserJock> how annoying ;-)
<Lathiat> DarkMageZ: no
<LaserJock> DarkMageZ: see the ubuntu-devel mailing list
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: for edgy+1, telepathy should solve this issue
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah, bunch of annoying stuff. I can imagine lots of people will love it though ;-)
<LaserJock> almost as bad as having to wade through everybodies printer to get to the one I want
<Burgundavia> adhock networking is the future
<LaserJock> I suppose, doesn't mean I have to like it :-)
<LaserJock> we have maybe 100 computers on our network
<LaserJock> I dislike having to wade around through everybodies service brodcasting
<DarkMageZ> hmm, has to be enabled @ configure time? does it end up as a plugin? or an always enabled feature...
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: if you are at work, you should have an admin to make a decision on it
<Burgundavia> DarkMageZ: currently avahi is turned off by deafult
<Burgundavia> it is likely to be on by default in edgy+!
<imbrandon> anyone ever used a curses based gnutella client?
<imbrandon> i found a few on google but i mean experice if they are good/bad/ugly
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
<LaserJock> we need to get that gcl/maxima fix in -updates or I'm going to go nuts with bug reports
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, true... But the proper procedure never got decided on...
<LaserJock> yeah
* Fujitsu gets his scissors and aims them at the red tape.
<LaserJock> do we need another MOTU meeting to finalize the Stable Release Updates procedure?
<Fujitsu> Or do we just want to attempt to get gcl/maxima fixed for the moment as described on MOTU/Processes/SRU? That process is workable, though not exactly finalised..
<LaserJock> yeah, maybe we should use it as a test case
<LaserJock> I think the 2 weeks in -proposed is a little odd
<Fujitsu> That's more than most main stuff gets, isn't it?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> Main gets 1 week
<LaserJock> sweet! I just found 3 Dapper CDs
<LaserJock> I thought I left them in Mountain View
<Fujitsu> When were you there?
<LaserJock> in August
<LaserJock> for Ubucon
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> kinda gave 2 presentations
* Fujitsu attacks the lack of SRU policy.
<Fujitsu> It really makes things rather difficult :S
<LaserJock> yeah, maybe just start the process
<Toadstool> hey Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi Toadstool.
* Toadstool takes a look at what's been modified on the SRU wiki page since the meeting
<Fujitsu> First up, gcl needs that patch.
<Fujitsu> Now, can I remember where it is...
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I guess the first question is if it is a "high profile" update
<Fujitsu> Yes. It certainly is.
<LaserJock> think so?
<LaserJock> personally I wouldn't think it would be
<Kyral> IBM Pollyanna Principle:
<Kyral>         Machines should work.  People should think.
<imbrandon> considering i dont even know what it is i wouldnet be
<LaserJock> I guess that's why we need a policy
<LaserJock> and that's why the whole "high profile" thing is going to be troublesome
<LaserJock> it's high profile in the sense that it's a pretty severe bug
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, why wouldn't it be? We have a lot of people complaining, and it completely breaks that package. In main/restricted, severe regressions come under that category.
<Fujitsu> This is a regression.
<LaserJock> because "high profile" mean high up on the popcon stats to me
<Toadstool> as long as the package is unusable, I'd say that it is a valid candidate for a SRU
<LaserJock> hmm, ok well maybe I'm just thinking of this wrong
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, high profile bug, not package. As in, it's not some obscure bug that somebody might run into once every 1,000,000 tries.
<LaserJock> I was reading "high profile" as package
<LaserJock> i.e. breaking Xorg is a big no no
<Fujitsu> `Just high-profile bug fixes'
<LaserJock> I still don't see it as a high-profile bug fix in the larger scheme of things
<Fujitsu> Not in the scheme of things, no.
<LaserJock> but then this is the problem with this SRU procedure
<Fujitsu> Yeah, you can't have a proper, objective, quantitative assessment of the high-profileness of a bug fix.
<LaserJock> ok, but I guess maybe this is what I'm getting hung up on
<LaserJock> what happens to non-"high profile" bug fixes?
<Fujitsu> They get their bugs spammed eternally, like #43150?
<Toadstool> bug 43150
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in gcl "wxmaxima fails with error, can't connect to maxima" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<Toadstool> haha
<LaserJock> I was thinking it would imply we could just upload the update
<LaserJock> I guess that is an important point
<Fujitsu> Oh, you think like that.
<Fujitsu> I took it to mean that little tiny bugs won't be fixed at all, only big ones will.
<LaserJock> to me SRU was going to be used to make sure we don't break something important
<Fujitsu> But you've taken it to mean that little ones are exempt from the procedure?
<LaserJock> yes
<Fujitsu> We need the almight dholbach :(
<Fujitsu> *almighty
<LaserJock> I figured it was trivial to decide if it goes in -updates or not, the question was "how" it got to -updates and how much testing needed to be done
<LaserJock> if it is how you are thinking then it is indeed a "high profile" bug of course :-)
<Fujitsu> Yes, we were thinking of it in completely different meanings...
<Fujitsu> By your definition, it's not a high profile bug.
<Fujitsu> It cannot break anything further than it is now.
<Fujitsu> It's already ultimately broken, so it can't get any worse.
<LaserJock> but actually your reading makes more sense, as it is called StableReleaseUpdates and not HighRiskStableReleaseUpdates ;-)
<Toadstool> what about: package not usable/uninstallable -> eligible for a SRU -> need debdiff, diffstat, buildlog, approval by motu-sru team -> fix uploaded to -proposed -> we ask people to test it thoroughly -> if no more complaints about the bug -> -updates ?
<LaserJock> that's still a lot of "stuff" to go through
<Toadstool> well, it's a stable release ;)
<LaserJock> since right now it's just  motu checks patch/fix -> motu uploads
<Fujitsu> This fix is minor, and has no potential to break things. Toadstool's sequence there really is overkill.
<Fujitsu> main stuff doesn't go through many things like that.
<Fujitsu> Just debdiff, sometimes straight to -updates, sometimes to -proposed then tested.
<Toadstool> and then X.org breaks :p
<Fujitsu> Er, yeah.
* Toadstool ducks
<LaserJock> but we have no real X.org, it's Universe
<Toadstool> yeah, true
<Fujitsu> And universe != main.
<LaserJock> I want to keep -updates quality high
<Fujitsu> As do I.
<LaserJock> I had to fix a -updates already
<LaserJock> I'd rather avoid that
<Fujitsu> It's very high at the moment, 'cause there's only one or two things in there :P
<LaserJock> 2 weeks is too long I think
<LaserJock> I'd rather go for an "ack" system
<Fujitsu> Much like UVF at the moment?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but maybe a much larger group (perhaps all of MOTU) that can ack
<LaserJock> I realize that -updates isn't use a ton, but I hate putting more work on the same people
<minghua> Speaking of stable updates, do any of you think dapper should have different policy than other stable releases?
<LaserJock> probably not
<minghua> I won't bother with stable updates for edgy once edgy+1 is released
<minghua> but I still want to push some stable updates for dapper after edgy release
<LaserJock> I can see how in theory there would be a difference, but in practice I don't think there will be
<LaserJock> if a bug need fixing it would be nice to fix it in any release we find it
<Fujitsu> Dapper is different, LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> Dapper will be shipped through ShipIt for quite some time.
<LaserJock> I don't see how it would be fore Universe
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but I think Edgy should get updates as well
<LaserJock> especially as Edgy seems to be more "stable" for many people
<minghua> I always feel the biggest burden of stable release updates is on the release team
<minghua> preparing a update is relatively easy, but making sure it doesn't break anything else is hard
<minghua> but I can see LaserJock's point
<LaserJock> right, except the release team wants us to handle most of the work for Universe
<minghua> If there is user interest and developer willing to work on the update, I suppose why not
<minghua> the developer is responsible to fix stuff if he breaks stuff
<LaserJock> Universe is Universe, we do what we can
<minghua> really REALLY conservative users can always use only -security, not -updates
<LaserJock> what SRU should do is provide guidance and a process wherby we can have as high of quality updates as we can
<minghua> acutually that's probably what I am going to do if I run a stable release
<LaserJock> the problem is the testing, I think
<LaserJock> how to get an update to a decent amount of people to test before it goes to -update
<LaserJock> I fixed an -update upload that didn't install because a dep was missed
<LaserJock> mearly installing the .deb before you upload would help :-)
<Fujitsu> I've tested this upload on a few machines, but still...
<LaserJock> I mean, you honestly could just upload the bugger I guess
<LaserJock> I'm disliking this limbo
<Fujitsu> Yes, it's been a couple of weeks...
<LaserJock> but running by dholbach or motu-uvf wouldn't hurt
<Fujitsu> I'll certainly run it by dholbach.
<LaserJock> it would be good to get a list of dapper apps that are completely broken (won't install or segfault on startup, etc.)
<LaserJock> I have no idea how one would do that though
* minghua has one that doesn't segfault on startup but doesn't work at all anyway
<Fujitsu> I could probably whip something up to check for things that don't install...
<LaserJock> don't install would be a good start
<LaserJock> I could do some searching through Malone
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that would be productive
<LaserJock> this a downside of team maintainace on this scale
<Fujitsu> Search in Malone? You can't use those two in one sentence, I don't think
<LaserJock> heh
<minghua> searching though Malone is never productive for whatever reason IMHO :-P
* Fujitsu hits Telstra.
<LaserJock> the problem is
<Fujitsu> You're not routing my IPs to here, you evil evil things.
<Fujitsu> Is...?
<LaserJock> we don't know most of our packages well enough to just know
<LaserJock> and we have to wait until bugs reports come in
<Fujitsu> This is where we have problems, yes.
<LaserJock> which much of the time means waiting until after the release
<Fujitsu> That's where Debian's maintainership is a good idea.
<minghua> the other side of the same problem is we simply don't have enough users of the development branch, compared to debian
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so we need to do more general testing before a release
<minghua> I can easily find people to test stuff on debian testing or unstable for my input method packages
<minghua> for ubuntu, very very hard
<Toadstool> we could try to piuparts all Dapper's universe for a start...
<LaserJock> maybe if we did a piuparts
<LaserJock> hehe
<Toadstool> :)
<minghua> yeah, I like piuparts too
<LaserJock> maybe we could do a piuparts audit of Universe for Dapper and Edgy
<Toadstool> yup
<LaserJock> I wonder how long that would take
<Fujitsu> Quite a long time.
<LaserJock> it would be nice if we could break Universe into logical chunks for these kinds of task
<LaserJock> s
<LaserJock> I suppose alphabetically would work
<Fujitsu> Although, for that sort of thing, a few chroots running simultaneously doing that on one machine would work fine. Throw in several machines, and it should be fairly quickly.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes, that's really the only way.
<minghua> it needs a big local archive, and a lot of cpu powers
<minghua> not an easy thing to set up
<Fujitsu> minghua, installing a package doesn't need much CPU powe.
<Fujitsu> *power
<Fujitsu> Especially if not much is installed.
<Fujitsu> Most packages require very little post-processing, remember.
<minghua> well, the way I understand piuparts, it installs and removes every package in a clean chroot
<minghua> which probably means that you install and remove X for every GNOME and KDE package
<LaserJock> yeah, it'd almost be like running pbuilder on Universe ;-)
<minghua> and that's a lot of CPU power to me
<Fujitsu> minghua, a good point, yes.
<LaserJock> but if you could just set it going and after a few days come back ...
<LaserJock> ok, let me add this to my MotuManagment page
<Fujitsu> Where is that located?
<LaserJock> perhaps a general motu-qa team that are willing to help with these sorts of things
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagment
<LaserJock> heh, of course if I could spell :/
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
<Fujitsu> Heh.
* Fujitsu rigs up a tape player next to sabdfl's bed, repeating `You must give the MOTUs an array of build/testing machines.' over and over again while he's asleep.
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I might ask him at Mountain View
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea me too and i was going to maybe spec something too , kinda make it offical so we can auth against LP for the MOTU team etc
<imbrandon> infact i was just writing some notes in kwrite about it earlier
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure what all to do
<LaserJock> from Canonical's prespective we are "untrusted"
<LaserJock> so they don't want to give us access to the inside machines
<LaserJock> that's one of  the reasons we didn't get our own archive admin teams
<imbrandon> right , but remote auth should be possible, kinda like how we do some of the webpages
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> at least having a few build/test machines would be nice
<imbrandon> like i ahve access to some of the webpages and db's like art.u.c and such but its not LP based and those machines areint in the "real" dc
<imbrandon> they are but they are on a diff subnet dmz etc
<imbrandon> i'm thinking we could probably set something like that up
<imbrandon> where its "sponsored" by cacnonical but not dirrect access to the dc computers
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> err that came out wrong but you see my idea
<LaserJock> imbrandon: are you coming to Mountain View?
<imbrandon> whereas some websites are only avail to like newzum becouse they are on the dc computers
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea
<LaserJock> we need a list of MOTUs who will be in attendence
<LaserJock> I didn't think Paris had too much MOTU attendence
<imbrandon> isnt there an "attendies" page >
<Hobbsee> true that
<LaserJock> probably
<imbrandon> one sec
<Fujitsu> I'm not going, only 54 more to check.
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have some MOTU discussion
<LaserJock> we had EasierMOTUing in paris which was fun
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Attendees
<LaserJock> but I think we might need some MOTU process discussions
<imbrandon> ^^ i'm listed ;)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: 54 more what?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, there are 55 MOTUs, and I'm not going, so you need to check if the other 54 are going to UDS :P
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: 53.  MOTU's to check
* Fujitsu strangles Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> There shouldn't have been an apostrophe there!
* Hobbsee dies bloodily all over Fujitsu 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i dont go to school anymore.  my grammar is allowed to be slightly dodgy now
<LaserJock> well, about 50 actually
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, true...
<Fujitsu> And quite a number of members of ubuntu-dev I haven't ever seen.
* imbrandon isnt a MOTU heheh so 49
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes you are darn it
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yes i am in heart
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, you're a super-MOTU.
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> we have levels of MOTUs
<LaserJock> super-MOTUs
<LaserJock> uber-MOTUs
<LaserJock> diety-MOTUs
<imbrandon> motu-aholic's ?
<Fujitsu> And me, the poor little peasant-MOTU :P
<LaserJock> heh, well the get to sit in the corner
<LaserJock> hmm, peasant-MOTU
<LaserJock> that puts Monty Python on the brain ;-)
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon's just better than all of us.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but once i get the init spec for the "farm" done up , i'll poke you with the url ( ~24 hours ) and you can add/modify it
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, nooooooooooooooooo
<Fujitsu> \o/ imbrandon.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hmmm?
<imbrandon> but i think the "farm" is great idea, alot of intrest has been shown, it just hasent ben acted on alot , well i started it kinda but i have limited resources
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> does peasant-MOTU has any connection with build farm? :-)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: start utilising the money tree.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, heh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: but you *will* have to make sure everyone is using debsign -r
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, Mark, you mean? :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: whichever
<Fujitsu> And, yeah. Anything else is just silly.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yes thats in the spec
<Hobbsee> oh good ;P
<Fujitsu> What do people here think of Seveas' software channel spec?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i'm not in favor of everyone and their brother putting .gnupg keys on a build farm, its ment for builds and testing , not making redistributable debs , so really there is no reason to sign it as the source can be uploaded from a local machine once its "fixed"
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i havent had a chance to read it
<LaserJock> debsign -r?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, but yea if it IS to be signed debsign is definately the way to go
* LaserJock goes for the man page
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, signs .changes over SSH.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, a way of signing a deb on a remote machine without putting your secret key remotely
<LaserJock> oh nifty
<imbrandon> like the way Fujitsu and Hobbsee sign stuff on my build machine without putting a gnupg key on there
<imbrandon> more secure
<imbrandon> but anyhow yea thats part of the "security" section of the spec
<Hobbsee> Hi Sarah
<Hobbsee> Writing this on Ubuntu/Firefox system at the airport - they have free internet kiosks here.  But the one around the corner is spattered with all the crashy-type messages you get  :(
<Hobbsee> *NICE*
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: well...true that.  although some people's upload speeds are very slow
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: havent seen it either.  i should, though
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, true, it will all get worked out via the spec and bof's in mtv i'm sure
<Hobbsee> nice
<Hobbsee> just tell us all non-attending MOTUs waht you decide :P
<LaserJock> hmm, the  SoftwareChannels spec is interesting
<imbrandon> and to be honest if i can get some contract work to help me pay for it even if canonical dosent sponsor it I will
* imbrandon needs a bit of contract work soon heh
<imbrandon> anyone got any ? heheh
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, it'll be interesting to see what comes of it, as it is a very big change.
<LaserJock> well, it could be fairly trivial I think
<LaserJock> for a basic implementation of some of the features
<Fujitsu> Trivial yes, but also a big change.
<LaserJock> having .deb packages install sources.list files to /etc/apt/sources.d/
<imbrandon> has anyone checked if the hotel we are at in mtv has wifi / broadband  ?
<Fujitsu> A very very good idea, but it diverges from Debian in a potentially nasty way.
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> all of Mountain View has wifi
<LaserJock> Google did it
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> although we aren't techincally staying in Moutain View I don't think :/
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea i'm wondering how we're gonna fit all this into a weeks time
<imbrandon> seems alot more this time than paris
<LaserJock> we aren't :-)
<LaserJock> we didn't get to quite a few of the specs in Paris
<imbrandon> i noticed alot of "outsiders" are comming this time too from intel and google
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I think Mark wanted to call in the experts :-)
<imbrandon> one thing i dident like to see but it will work out i think is some people are only there for the forums
<imbrandon> i thought it was more a technical week but .....
<imbrandon> well i'll shush now
<LaserJock> well it is
<LaserJock> we had it in Paris too
<LaserJock> it's an attempt to keep the forums from imploding, IMO
<imbrandon> lol
<jldugger> maybe it should implode ;)
<imbrandon> i have been chastizing people on LP and the mail list for linking to the foruim about a topic and not giving a summary, if i wanted to read the forums i would
<LaserJock> well, they almost died around that time
<imbrandon> gah, nvm i'm gonna get OT here
<imbrandon> heya jldugger
<jldugger> hey
<LaserJock> well, I was in on some of the BOFs with the forum guy
<LaserJock> there was one especially interesting one where we discussed LP's support tracker
<imbrandon> jldugger, dude someone thats gonna be at ITEC needs to come pick those ubuntu cd's from my house, i keep mailing the list and telling them in the irc room but no one listens
<jldugger> on the other hand, you don't want a gentoo-wiki type situation
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, but hopefully that whole thing will get better
<jldugger> imbrandon, im two hours away from KC
<imbrandon> jldugger, crap thats right
<jldugger> imbrandon, my participation in #kclug is like auxiliery member ;)
<imbrandon> they are gonna wait till the last minute and expect me to be there with the cd's and i have told them for WEEKS to come get them
<imbrandon> that i couldent make ITEC
<jldugger> put it on the ML
<imbrandon> so i have 500 ubuntu/kubuntu cd's sitting here
<jldugger> make up an excuse to get someone to pick em up early ;)
<jldugger> jesus
<imbrandon> jldugger, i did about 6 times litterly
<imbrandon> no one responded
<jldugger> personally, i think its wierd for kclug to attend a trade show as a vendor
<imbrandon> me too, but i said i would get the cd's and did
<imbrandon> but now its like ummm common guys get it togather
* LaserJock hops the train to get some CDs ;-)
<jldugger> imbrandon, you put something in motion last night reguarding wacom-tools -- was there anything i needed to look at today?
<imbrandon> jldugger, ahh right, i totaly forgot, give me a sec
<jldugger> reguarding the forums stuff, gentoo has a somewhat similar situation -- gentoo-wiki.org is owned and operated outside the gentoo project, and apparently its the cause of a lot of users fowling their systems up
<imbrandon> jldugger, well the forums are run by us , its just honestly fragmented community
<imbrandon> there are those that use LP/IRC/MailingList and those that use the Forums, with only a few crossovers
<jldugger> i dont really use the mailing list
<jldugger> but i can see why the forums are popular with a certain subset.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't know if I'd exactly say the forums are run by us
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> well run by the "official" community
<imbrandon> i guess
<LaserJock> I wouldn't even say that
<LaserJock> it's hosted on canonical machines, that's pretty close to the extent of it
<LaserJock> it's getting a little better though I think
<zakame> hi all
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<micahcowan> What's up with REVU being down?
<crimsun> dist-upgrade to Dapper.
<zakame> yo LaserJock
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<zakame> dist-upgrade
<zakame> yo imbrandon
<micahcowan> REVU (and all of tauware.de) seems to be unreachable for at least the past 24 hours...
<micahcowan> Hm, except the wiki.
<zakame> well tiber did need that update ;) right?
<imbrandon> and since its a server it probably wont need it for anopther 5 years ;)
<Toadstool> ok, started a piupart on the whole universe
<minghua> I like some moves the forum recently did
<zakame> Toadstool: setting it on fire? :)
<Toadstool> hope I did not make any mistake 'cause it is going to take ages :)
<zakame> minghua: ooh, what move?
<minghua> but still don't like the forum enough to go there often, I suppose
<minghua> zakame: like move the edgy sub-forum to support category, and completely nuke the development category
<zakame> ah
<jldugger> the only time people go the forums is when they have a problem ;)
<micahcowan> Is anyone able to reach tiber? I'm hoping it might just be the route from my network... ge2-edge.mia.infolink.com reports no-route-to-host...
<zakame> micahcowan: don't bother, it is indeed down
<imbrandon> micahcowan, NO we said its is down right now
<Toadstool> micahcowan: tiber did not survive the reboot after a kernel update
<micahcowan> imbrandon, ah, I guess I didn't understand that from what was said, then.
<Toadstool> hmm looks like my piupart thing is working... great! :)
<micahcowan> If it's likely to be down for a bit, adjusting the topic might be helpful (first place I checked)
<minghua> micahcowan has a point, if not that our topic is 3 or 4 characters from overflow...
<minghua> s/if/if only/ ?
<minghua> damn grammar
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:imbrandon] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | REVU is DOWN for the moment, please check back later.  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Please work on this list! http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a | Edgy frozen: ALL Uploads need 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:imbrandon] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | REVU is DOWN for the moment, please check back | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Please work on this list! http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a | Edgy frozen: ALL Uploads need approval
<minghua> Hmm, dapper's pbuilder doesn't recognize edgy as a distribution name, bugger.
<imbrandon> no you have yo install the edgy debootstarp for it to work
<imbrandon> on dapper
* imbrandon beds
<imbrandon> elkbuntu, ps about the blog and surveys thing , i could have told you that hehe i get well over 2000 hits a day from planet.u.c ;)
<imbrandon> ayhow gnight folks
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, im not used to being seen ;)
<minghua> imbrandon: I'll try dist-upgrade from a dapper chroot
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> good... no text editor whatsoever in a buildd chroot
<imbrandon> vi
<imbrandon> wow i guess s/2000/10000 http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss_stats1.png
* imbrandon beds for real
<zakame> hehe
<minghua> imbrandon: no vi, no nano, not even ed
<minghua> okay, sed to the rescue, dist-upgrade seems to be working well
<imbrandon> minghua, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26972/
<imbrandon> vi is bootstraped in default
<minghua> imbrandon: thanks, but as I've said, mine is dapper chroot, and I used --variant=buildd for bootstrap
<minghua> I suspect yours is a general bootstrapped chroot
<imbrandon> nope pbuilders use the buildd variant and here is a dapper one
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26973/
<imbrandon> same thing diffrent version
<imbrandon> anyhow , off to sleep
* Fujitsu slays imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> You use that theme!?
<minghua> good night imbrandon
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i /made/ that theme ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> Yuck.
<imbrandon> just becosue i dont like their os dosent mean i dont like the way it looks or some things about it:0 but i've been over this 1000 times, and i'm tired ;)
<imbrandon> thats the beuity of linux , choice heh
<imbrandon> gah
<imbrandon> see missspelling worse than normal
<minghua> the upload is still to ftp://upload.ubuntu.com, right?
<Q-FUNK> morning!
<imbrandon> minghua, yes
<minghua> imbrandon: thanks!  (and you should go to bed :-)
<imbrandon> lol i know
* minghua does his first edgy upload
<imbrandon> getting revu-tools configured on my public"ish" build box
<imbrandon> minghua, well we are in a freeze did you gat an OK ?
<minghua> imbrandon: unmet dep fix
<imbrandon> minghua, read the last sentance in the topic ;)
<minghua> imbrandon: ajmitch gave a pre-approval
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> just makin sure
<minghua> and ajmitch said upload _then_ ping anyway ;-)
<imbrandon> wow that seems odd but ok
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> damn, forgot to use --distribution edgy
* minghua rebuilds
<minghua> ajmitch: scim-uim 0.1.4-1build1 uploaded, fixing bug #65478, please approve, thanks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65478 in scim-uim "[UNMETDEPS]  scim-uim has unmet dependencies" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65478
* Fujitsu looks around the channel.
<Fujitsu> Any DDs around?
<lucas> depends on your question
<Fujitsu> I've got a new soundconverter package.
<Fujitsu> So I ideally need somebody to upload it.
<siretart> Fujitsu: try in #debian-mentors ;)
<Fujitsu> Pfft, that'd make sense.
<siretart> reboot request for tiber sent. waiting for reply...
<Tonio_> hi
<shawarma> revu is back! Wheeee...
<herzi> good morning dudes
<shawarma> Have any of you guys ever been in Mountain View?
<mnepton> shawarma: years ago, yes
<siretart> okay. tiber is online again, but with 2.6.12 kernel, most probably because of bug #48184
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48184 in linux-source-2.6.15 "[regression]  Fails to detect ethernet card (VT6105 via-rhine)" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48184
<shawarma> mnepton: Is it like an actual city where people live or is it like an industrial area of sorts?
<shawarma> mnepton: I'm considering going despite not getting sponsored and I'm curious how much of a hassle it's going to be to get something to eat..
<shawarma> mnepton: Hmm... although there's probably going to be a *lot* of pizza places in that kind of area..
<shawarma> I just still remember that ridiculous small village near Paris where the last summit was held... Now *that* was a hassle.
<Fujitsu> siretart, is it a commercially hosted machine?
<siretart> Fujitsu: yes
<Fujitsu> ServerPronto?
<siretart> yes
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that caused some big issues when a Dapper upgrade was performed on Mekong (the server behind about 5 LoCo teams).
<siretart> Fujitsu: how did you solve the issue?
<Fujitsu> siretart, still running .12.
<siretart> fabolous :/
<Fujitsu> Yeah.\
<Fujitsu> Downtime of 3 or 4 days because communication between ServerPronto and the official contact person was terrible.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:siretart] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | REVU is available again for now | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Please work on this list! http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a | Edgy frozen: ALL Uploads need approval
<siretart> Fujitsu: then we are lucky, tiber was 'only' 2 days offline :)
<Fujitsu> 4 days without my primary email address was... unpleasant :S
<siretart> oh
<sivang> morning
<jsgotangco> hi!
<sivang> hi jsgotangco , what's up?
<jsgotangco> just finished dinner  heh
<sivang> jsgotangco: what's on the plate for today? :)
<jsgotangco> sivang: unfortunately its not kosher :/
<jsgotangco> sivang: interesting spec though ;)
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> jsgotangco: :-)
<sivang> the uninterrupted video playback
<sivang> ?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<sivang> jsgotangco: I do wonder who decided that some foods are and some are not, or at least have the rationale behind it :-)
<sivang> jsgotangco: should have had a spec for that
<jsgotangco> its an real user case scenario
<sivang> ah, indeed.
<jsgotangco> on some branded laptops, they actually have special power management software for that
<sivang> me and my gf use the machine to watch dvds, and I recently had to do a photo presentation of my trip to the UK
<sivang> and g-p-m and IM got in the way, g-p-m decided the machine is idle and lowered the brightness,
<sivang> i-m kept bugging us with stupid messages from family member that could have waited :)
<sivang> etc..
<sivang> so it is a real use case :)
<jsgotangco> yeah if i remember it right on a toshiba windows laptop, the settings aren't that fancy and just disables stuff so it won't get in the way of dvd playback
<jsgotangco> but can be done with a keyboard shortcut
<sivang> also, imagine yourself sitting in a presentation in a hall, and suddenly some odd looking popups is asking you to reboot your machine, do you want your investors to see that? :) or your students?
<sivang> jsgotangco: right, so we should aim at least for that
<sivang> jsgotangco: see followup to t u on the ML
<sivang> anyway, breakfast and sleep recovery now :)
<jsgotangco> it seems dbus has been the magical hiway of anything lately
<StevenK> sivang: I've had that happen with Windows.
<StevenK> "Updates have been installed. I'm going to reboot in 5 minutes." You couldn't cancel it, you could only postpone it by another five minutes.
<zakame> hi all!
<highvoltage> hey zakame!!
<sivang> StevenK: indeed, LOL
* Hobbsee wonders what she missed
<zakame> yo highvoltage !! =D
<highvoltage> hehe :)
<zakame> Hobbsee: what missed?
<Hobbsee> zakame: i dont know.  if i did, i wouldnt be asking :P
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: don't worry, there are no wild parties here while you are away
<Hobbsee> awww...pity
<zakame> highvoltage: there was one at my place some weeks ago, during my birthday :p
<highvoltage> zakame: ah yes, when you turned hex(22)
<zakame> yeah
<highvoltage> i mean, 16 in hex :)
<zakame> well actually it was more of my cousin's b-day bash, she's a day earlier than me, but a couple of years older
<pirast> who do i have to subscribe if it's a reupload?
<pirast> Hobbsee: hi.. i subscribed you to 2 bug reports.. it would be great if you could check & merge the debdiffs into ubuntu
<Hobbsee> pirast: there's a group called ubuntu-universe-sponsors - subscribe them
<pirast> hobbsee, okay, sorry for bugging :-)
<Hobbsee> pirast: it's fine :)
<pirast> hobbsee, shall i subscribe them to reupload bugs, too?
<Hobbsee> pirast: yeah
<Hobbsee> pirast: wait, what do you mean by reupload?  does it involve a debdiff?
<pirast> hobbsee, no
<pirast> it just has to be rebuilt
<Hobbsee> pirast: got an example?
<pirast> sure
<pirast> bug 65463
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65463 in caudium "[REUPLOAD]  [UNMETDEPS]  caudium has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65463
<pirast> someone said that when a package has to be rebuillt it is just reuploaded to the archive.
<Hobbsee> pirast: oh yeah.  yes, that does
<pirast> hobbsee, so i have to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<Hobbsee> pirast: yep.  i'm doing caudium now.
<Hobbsee> pirast: if you've just got rebuilds, poke me with the bug numbers in -bugs, and i'll upload them while i munch
<pirast> hobbsee, k, thanks :-)
<pirast> hobbsee, lol... i wrote "sarah is going to reupload the package".. sorry, im not a native english speaker :-)
<pirast> its like saying the weather is going to be great :-P
<StevenK> pirast: Careful. Hobbsee might rain on your uploads.
<Hobbsee> it's fine
* Hobbsee requests a sync for that instead.
<Hobbsee> seeing as debian's fixes multiple FTBFS
<StevenK> Yay me.
<pirast> stevenk, lol!
<pirast> hobbsee, okay
* Hobbsee :P at StevenK 
* Hobbsee logs into his machine
<asabil> hi all
<asabil> anyone willing to make a .deb package for python-gtkglext ?
<Hobbsee> !info python-gtkglext
<ubotu> Package python-gtkglext does not exist in any distro I know
<asabil> so ?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> i just thought it was already ther
<Hobbsee> e
<asabil> so can I ask for one ?
<Hobbsee> you can ask, i dont think anyone will do it
<asabil> I tried to tweak the one provided by the glchess developper
<asabil> :/
<pirast> will we remove mozilla in edgy+1 like debian does?
<sivang> how do I list all the binary packages coming out of a single source?
<StevenK> grep ^Package debian/control ?
<sivang> StevenK: and without getting the source? :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: apt-cache showsrc foo
<StevenK> Yeah, that.
<sivang> right, thanks
<Hobbsee> or apt-cache show foo | grep Binary
<Hobbsee> if you prefer
<sivang> i have a memory loss problem
<sivang> ;-)
<Hobbsee> :P
<sivang> normally, when there are unmetdeps, how do we find out if a package has been replaced by another one and we need to change depends etc? I see dpkg not laways says which packages has been replaced by which
<Hobbsee> sivang: either it says, or employ guesswork.  also checking debian helps with that
<Hobbsee> i havent found a quicker way
<sivang> Hobbsee: yes, just attempting to install on a sid chroot really helps
<sivang> I thought if there is a better way :)
<siretart> pirast: this hasn't been decided yet
<Hobbsee> sivang: packages.debian.org :P
<sivang> Hobbsee: the chroot is faster :)
<Hobbsee> depends how fast the chroot is :P
<sivang> better then my broken fingers searchign through p.d.o :-p
<sivang> nice, debtags-edit seems to just require a rebuild
<herzi> is it known that password recovery doesn't work on the revu site right now?
<pirast> herzi, what does not work?
<herzi> i get this line as the last one
<herzi> Now paste the text below, and enter EOT<return>
<pirast> ajmitch helped me when I had a similar issue...
<pirast> herzi, just try to catch him later
<ivoks> hi all
<pirast> hi ivoks
<PSUSI> how can you clean spam off a bug on launchpad?
<azeem> PSUSI: try asking in #launchpad, maybe
<PSUSI> heh, didn't realize it had its own channel
<pirast> siviang, hi..
<sivang> hi pirast
<pirast> sivang, i parallally chatted with infinity about bug 2253 by chance..
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2253 in fpc "fpc needs bootstrapping on buildds" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2253
<sivang> I just chatted to slomo about this :)
<pirast> sivang, great :-P
<sivang> Adam told me some love needed to be put up into fpc on PPC, which would help him bootstrap
<pirast> yeah.. :-(
<sivang> I don't owe such an arch
<pirast> i dont, either..
<pirast> but the way that it is now it breaks more..
<sivang> I just can't really understand nor did I Have the time to check why the user-he package depends on it, but well :-)
<pirast> sivang, i had time: 63647
<pirast> look at my first reply there
<sivang> malone #63647
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63647 in user-he "[UNMETDEPS]  Edgy, user-he, Broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63647
<pirast> at that post i didnt yet understand that fpc  needs debootstrapping
<sivang> pirast: right, thanks for the bug
<sivang> I see it now
<sivang> well, they should have used another language :-p
<sivang> not so exotic ones
<pirast> yeah.. there is a huge bunch of packages blocked by this..
<sivang> anyway, not an excuse, fpc shouldprobably be fixed for the good of the universe :)
<pirast> sivang, so what shall we do?
<pirast> ask infinity to bootstrap everything excepting powerpc?
<sivang> I am not sure this can be done
<sivang> or if it can, desired
<sivang> slomo: you have an idea?
<slomo> i see no reason why it shouldn't be possible
<slomo> but no idea about the ppc problem
<pirast> thanks
<sivang> crimsun: could it be that mxv is not published in debian sid?
* sivang can't find the package in sid, but did find it in stable
<slomo> sivang: http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mxv.html
<giskard> hello slomo :)
<slomo> hi giskard
<sivang> hey giskard
<sivang> slomo: thanks :)
<giskard> hello sivang :)
<sivang> slomo: where can I find the reason for the package being removed?
<slomo> in the bugreport about the removal
<pirast> sivang, so shall I ask infinity to bootstrap everything excepting powerpc?
<zul> /win 13
<sivang> pirast: already did
<sivang> pirast: he will do it when he wakes up
<sivang> he had to go to sleep now, at last
<pirast> sivang, great.. thanks
<sivang> pirast: no problem, its all fun.
<pirast> sivang, yeah..
<pirast> sivang, regarding your reply to bug 63647: you also have to sync user-he from debian because of the firefox dependency.. but as far as i know there were only changes made to the debian directory.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63647 in user-he "[UNMETDEPS]  Edgy, user-he, Broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63647
<sivang> pirast: for user-he or for -locale-he ?
<sivang> pirast: (e.g. debian dir changes)
<pirast> sivang, user-he
<sivang> pirast: okay, so two syncs then
<sivang> (we had no ubuntu changes anyways)
<pirast> sivang, whats the other sync about?
<sivang> does anybody know what happened to ivtools-interviews in edgy? did it got removed or someting?
<sivang> pirast: sorry, I mean, one sync for moz-locale-he, and one for user-he
<sivang> pirast: that what you meant right?
<pirast> sivang, if you mean firefox-locale-he :-)
<pirast> it does not have to be synced, the new debian package does not have it in it's build depends
<sivang> pirast: yes
<sivang> pirast: ah, even better then
<sivang> pirast: so only user-he from debian, thanks
<pirast> sivang, np and thanks, too :-)
<sivang> pirast: :)
<chantra_> hi, as anybody ran into troubles with /tmp directory lately?
<visik7> hi
<visik7> I've a package that genereate libs and binary
<visik7> how can I handle the packaging ?
<lotusleaf> "I have the power!"
<pef> hello
<newz2000> hello all, working with siretart I'm trying to diagnose kernel problems on the server 'tiber' where revu is located.
<newz2000> I'll need to rebooot this server soon. Anyone in there? I'll wait about 15 min and then plan my reboot.
<newz2000> Server will be down hopefully only about 10 min, but a second reboot may be needed, so wait for my word to go back in.
<nixternal> 5 minutes down, 5 to go ;)
<_MMA_> Hows it goin LaserJock?
<LaserJock> oh, it's going
<_MMA_> Did you talk to System76?
<LaserJock> trying to figure out if I'm missing any meetings right now :-)
<LaserJock> not yet, I think I'll do that today
<newz2000> nixternal: I haven't rebooted yet. I'm still waiting for my 15 min warning to expire without objections.
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> had to have some fun with it
<LaserJock> imbrandon's gotten some more stuff on our build farm
<LaserJock> what's going down?
<_MMA_> Not too much.
<newz2000> LaserJock: tiber server (where revu)
<LaserJock> newz2000: ah, for the dapper upgrade?
<newz2000> yes
<newz2000> ok, tiber goes down in 5 min.
<lotusleaf> timber, his arms wide
<newz2000> and fingers crossed. ;D
<newz2000> well, server didn't reboot on its own, so I'm opening a reboot ticket. For all of those holding their breath to get back into Tiber, have a nice sleep, because you'll pass out before it's back up.
<ivoks> ?
<pirast> does anyone have time to apply to debdiffs that add .desktop entries?
<LaserJock> at this point in the release I don't think so
<pirast> LaserJock, aren't patches still allowed?
<LaserJock> they have to go through an exception process
<LaserJock> and I don't think .desktop files are high enough priority to be accepted
<pirast> LaserJock, every little patch also?
<LaserJock> yes
<pirast> argh.
<LaserJock> we are in Release Candidate Freeze
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> it was kinda sudden, I wasn't expecting it
<zul> uh didnt you check the calendar?
<jldugger> edgy certainly will feel shorter since dapper was delayed
<pirast> LaserJock, when did it begin? i do not see it there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<LaserJock> zul: no, I did not expect Release Candidate Freeze to mean what it does for Edgy
<LaserJock> zul: it hasn't in the past
<zul> ah
<LaserJock> pirast: it was announced on the mailing lists (ubuntu-devel-announce probably)
<pirast> LaserJock, ok, i will subscribe there
<pirast> to not miss further freezes
<LaserJock> this is the most conservative release I've seen in terms of Freezes that I've seen so far
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock
<highvoltage> I saw your wiki subpage on the motu stuff today
<pirast> in my debdiff's there are sometimes config.* entrys.. i think that they were caused by debuild.. how can i prevent them of being in my debdiffs?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ah, yeah
<highvoltage> I've been learning some more packaging stuff so hopefully by the end of december I could be a motu too.
<LaserJock> pirast: filterdiff
<pirast> LaserJock: thanks again :-)
<LaserJock> np
<Sp4rKY> hi
<Sp4rKY> does revu.tauware.de is down ?
<Sp4rKY> hi raphink
<Sp4rKY> i'm talking with one of the audacious dev
<Sp4rKY> "cause i'd tried to package it
<Sp4rKY> but i lost all my packaging work, so i hope it is on revu
<bhale> revu is down for maintainence
<Sp4rKY> ok
<pirast> does ubuntu have an autosync to debian multimedia?
<bhale> no.
<pirast> bhale, k...
<bhale> there are no autosyncs
<bhale> since some weeks ago
<bhale> months
<pirast> bhale, I know that Edgy is freezed :-) But what is about Edgy+1? Will it have new packages from Debian Multimedia?
<LaserJock> bhale: what's with the nick?
<dholbach> good night
<bhale> LaserJock: sigh
<pirast> night
<bhale> LaserJock: nothing is "with" it
<zul> pirast: most likely
<bhale> pirast: they could, but not auto
<pirast> :-(
<pirast> so i have to file sync requests when there are new versions in debian multimedia :-(
<LaserJock> bhale: but what happened to tseng? :(
<bhale> LaserJock: its gone
* LaserJock says a few words over the grave
<bhale> sorry
<sivang> slomo: do you have a minute?
<bhale> i dont know why everyone is taking it so hard
<slomo> yes
<LaserJock> well, we get used to it I suppose
<sivang> bhale: not taking this hard, just got used to it :)
<LaserJock> I just wondered, I've thought of changing mine too
<bhale> sivang: rock
<bhale> LaserJock: you should
<bhale> its not as hard as you think
<LaserJock> as it takes a while for people to relate my name to my nick
<sivang> bhale is easier to pronounce :)
<sivang> like "Hey *B* hale, whassup?"
<sivang> it's groovier
<sivang> slomo: anyways :)
<sivang> slomo: I'm trying to fix fixedpoint (bin: python-fixed point)
<bhale> sivan *G*
<slomo> sivang: ok, what's the problem with it? :)
<sivang> slomo: I dropped versioned dependency on python2.3-dev, building is fine,
<sivang> slomo: still when I try to install it, there seem to be python2.3 dependnecies (unmet dep on 2.3)
<sivang> slomo: I can't seem to find where the culprit lies, it's all subtvars dependencies anyways.
<sivang> oh crap
<sivang> Depends: python2.3
<sivang> I am going blind :)
<slomo> ok ;)
<sivang> slomo: wait, it's not over yet, even if this is fixed to depend only on python or python2.4 as we have, there's still:
<sivang> Conflicts: python2.3-fixedpoint
<sivang> Replaces: python2.3-fixedpoint
<sivang> should I just make those without version as per new python policy? also, in the changelog it says that it already conforms to it, and indeed has pycentral on its dependencies.
<slomo> no, the conflicts/replaces are still necessary as it conflicts/replaces the old versions
<sivang> ah okay, good to know
<sivang> and should I touch this:
<sivang> XB-Python-Version: 2.3
<sivang> ?
<sivang> oh hell
<sivang> Description: A fixed point math object for python [dummy package] 
<sivang>  This module provides a fixed point math object for python for monetary-
<sivang>  applications. This module is not needed for python2.4 and later versions-
<sivang>  because they provide a built-in decimal module.
<sivang> :-D
* sivang goes to file remove from archive request
<LaserJock> darn, today apt want's to autoremove everything :/
<pirast> night
<sivang> where is her holbach when I need him? :p
<bhale> herr
<pirast> sivang, he went sleeping: <dholbach> good night
<pirast> and i do now, too..
<pirast> night
<sivang> ah, oopss, hehe
<sivang> good night to you folks, in absentia
<geser> has someone here some time to upload three debdiffs fixing unmetdeps?
<crimsun> geser: bug #s?
<Bensin> Is this the right place to report a problem with installing a package in the universe repository?
<crimsun> technically, no. Use https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<crimsun> In reality, you can mention it in addition to filing a bug.
<Bensin> crimsun: OK. Thanks. I'll do that then. I thought launchpad was just for reporting problems with officially supported software.
<crimsun> for all Ubuntu software.
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun> (it's acceptable to tell us what's uninstallable, certainly)
<crimsun> 'morning, ajmitch
<Bensin> crimsun: have a problem with installing vmware-player.
<Bensin> on a completely newly installed ubuntu.
<sivang> ajmitch: morning
<crimsun> sivang: sorry, just read backscroll for your question, though it seems Sebastian answered it
<crimsun> (it's not in Sid, no. Is Edgy's broken?)
<geser> crimsun: bug 65411, bug 65405, bug  65347 and bug 65350 (for lophyte)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65411 in python-omniorb2 "[UNMETDEPS]  python-omniorb2 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65411
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65405 in python-pyrss2gen "[UNMETDEPS]  python-pyrss2gen has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65405
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65347 in quixote "[UNMETDEPS]  quixote has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65347
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65350 in projectmanager.app "[UNMETDEPS]  projectmanager.app has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65350
<geser> crimsun: could you also ACK bug 65417?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65417 in mknfonts.tool "[UNMETDEPS] [Sync Request]  mknfonts.tool (0.5-6) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65417
<crimsun> geser: it didn't really need an ack, but I gave one anyway (sivang is a member of ubuntu-dev)
<mr_pouit> a little question : is it normal for a package to be in the "dependency wait" state, if the dependency already exists ?(https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/248162)
<ivoks> i'm shocked how beryl works :)
<crimsun> mr_pouit: that's because idjc's debian/control:Build-Depends is incorrect. idjc's source is in universe, whereas liblame-dev is in multiverse. A universe source package cannot build-depend on a binary package in multiverse.
<crimsun> (just as a main source package cannot build-depend on a binary package in universe or multiverse)
<geser> crimsun: I was used to get an ACK after a sync request not before
<mr_pouit> crimsun, ah, thanks for the explanation. So what should (can ?) I do ?
<crimsun> mr_pouit: fix idjc's debian/control:Build-Depends and provide a debdiff.
<ajmitch> ivoks: why so?
<ivoks> ajmitch: it's perfect :)
<ajmitch> hardly..
<ivoks> well, on my 945 i see no problems
<mr_pouit> crimsun, ok
<geser> crimsun: if idjc build-depend on a multiverse package shouldn't it be moved into multiverse?
<crimsun> geser: if one intends it to build with both liblame-dev and libfaad2-dev build-deps, yes
<crimsun> alternately, of course, remove compile-time support for both mp3 and aac, and it can remain in universe
<lophyte> geser: what were those bugs about?
<lophyte> oh, nm
<lophyte> projectmanager.app
<mr_pouit> crimsun, ok, I removed  liblame-dev and libfaad2-dev, and it still buils in a pbuilder. The last question: should I add a changelog entry and increment the version number ?
<crimsun> mr_pouit: yes
<mr_pouit> ok
<superm1> crimsun, would you be able to take a look at / upload bug 65790 by chance?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65790 in mythtv "Mytharchive crashes due to buggy mythreplex utility" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65790
<lophyte> superm1: no box today either, btw
<superm1> lophyte, sounds like your friend is pulling a fast one on you.  "3 day shipping". ;)
<lophyte> not that I know of.. they might've came while I was out
<lophyte> indeed... *shrug*
<lophyte> I'll have to go check the mail
<superm1> :)
<lophyte> they usually leave a slip if you're not home
<geser> lophyte: crimsun is willing to upload some debdiffs
<Q-FUNK> 'evening
<lophyte> geser: ahh
<geser> and I've also mentioned your debdiff
<lophyte> cool
<geser> don't forget to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to your debdiffs else they are sitting in LP until someone stumbles over them
<lophyte> didn't I?
<geser> not for the debdiff for projectmanager.app
<lophyte> ack
<lophyte> thought I did
<geser> when the uploaded package is available from the repos you can set the bug from fix comitted to fix released
<geser> crimsun: thanks for uploading
<LaserJock> is 0xffff black?
<ajmitch> white
<ajmitch> well, #ffffff is white for html/css :)
<ajmitch> btw, hi LaserJock & Fujitsu
<sivang> hey ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Hey ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hello sivang
<Fujitsu> Hi sivang, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch LaserJock
<sivang> ajmitch: re malone #65376 , I see that it's installable and importable now, I am going to close the bug / reject
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65376 in pygsm "[UNMETDEPS]  pygsm has unmet dependencies (and FTBFS)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65376
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<LaserJock> I'm actually hacking on a program today!
<Fujitsu> Which, LaserJock?
<sivang> LaserJock: wow! which one?
<LaserJock> gchemutils
<imbrandon> hehe LaserJock
<Fujitsu> Ooh dear.
<ajmitch> sivang: ok, why tell me? :)
<Fujitsu> What are you doing to it?
* sivang high fives sivang,LaserJock.
<LaserJock> I'm learning some C++ along the way
<sivang> ajmitch: I've managed to insall it, and it seems to build fine :)
<LaserJock> I'm adding a feature to gchemtable
* sivang might be missing something, he admits
<ajmitch> sivang: does it not have the python2.3-dev builddep?
<sivang> hmm, it does, doh, but how can it build then? :)
<ajmitch> it can't - python2.3 is removed
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
* sivang does a reality check
<sivang> where do I find build logs?
<Fujitsu> sivang, on LP?
<LaserJock> wahoo! and I just broke it :-)
<sivang> Fujitsu: what's the url? :)
<Fujitsu> sivang, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/package/version
<sivang> Fujitsu: thanks
<Fujitsu> Then click on the architecture on the right.
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> Left.
<sivang> ajmitch: right, but how come there are no failed build logs?
<sivang> ajmitch: (on LP)
<Fujitsu> sivang, it hasn't been uploaded to Edgy.
<Fujitsu> So hasn't built since python2.3 was removed.
<ajmitch> as Fujitsu said ^^
<Fujitsu> siretart, thanks :) (re. bug 63948)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63948 in mpd "creating databases fails" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63948
<sivang> if you take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/pygsm
<sivang> you see that SOyuz think that it has been uploaded to edgy on 2006-06-08
<sivang> is Soyuz wrong?
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> It was uploaded to Edgy automatically, carried from Dapper.
<imbrandon> e.g binary uploaded, not rebuilt
<sivang> imbrandon: thanks
<sivang> so the binaries are just copied from the previous rlease..
<sivang> seems not the smartest thing to do. I was sure it always gets rebuilt with each new distrorelease :)
<ajmitch> sivang: certainly not - anytime a rebuild happens, the version number *must* change
<ajmitch> otherwise you'd have 2 binaries with the same version, built against different toolchains & libraries
<ajmitch> making upgrading a nightmare
<plugwash> also if ubuntu is using the pool system then i don't think they can have more than one binary package of the same name/version in the system even if they wan't to
<ajmitch> yep
<sivang> I see, okay, that makes sense. but shouldn't soyuz at least provide some info that a binary was 'copied' from the previous release rather then letting me puzzled infront of missing build logs? or should I have known that?
<sivang> and if the answer is the latter, how can I know this right away without attempting to find build logs and failing? :-)
<geser> from the version history on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pygsm you can see that the last upload was in hoary
<plugwash> it seems odd to me that it would be listed as an upload to edgy at all, i'd have thought the bulk copy would be silent
<sivang> plugwash: well, that would have helped me to remove the ambiguity just as well :)
<sivang> geser: from the :
<sivang> Initially uploaded to:
<sivang> Ubuntu Hoary
<sivang> ?
<imbrandon> sivang, no look at the last time the version number changed ;)
<imbrandon> that was the last upload
<imbrandon> and rebuild
<sivang> imbrandon: ah, doh, ajmitch noted everytime the package is rebuild the version number must change. this is the right rule to follow then :)
<plugwash> the "every rebuild the version must change" is the reason you see binary packages with + added to the end of the version number (at least in debian)
<superm1> plugwash, what happens when there are two rebuilds then before a new version?  two +'s?
<geser> sivang: and here is the old buildlog http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/pygsm/0.1-1ubuntu1/
<LaserJock> UTC+9.5 ? that's interesting
<plugwash> sorry its not just + its + followed by a numer
<superm1> oh
<sivang> plugwash: can you think of an example?
<imbrandon> rebuilds in ubuntu generaly get a new reversion like -XubuntuN where N is incremented
<plugwash> sivang i'll find one gimme a min
<sivang> imbrandon: Kamion noted that a plain rebuild, without any ubuntu changes should get buildX
<sivang> (to ease mergers/sync afterwards)
<sivang> hmm, the package I did all this fuss for is pygsm, which seems to not exist in debian
<imbrandon> yea but going from 1.5.3-6ubuntu5 to 1.5.3-6buntu5-build1 is silly, it becomes 1.5.3-6ubuntu6 , BUT 1.5-3 would become 1.5-3build1 yes
<plugwash> sorry its +b<number> not +<number>
<plugwash> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/3270-common <-- there is an example of a package that has been rebuilt once for i386 but not for any of the other architectures
<imbrandon> and that dosent happen in ubuntu, its built for all again, as we dont use binary uploads directly
<plugwash> debian don't use binary uploads for rebuilds either anymore
<plugwash> iirc they just have a switch somewhere that they use to tell the buildds that a package needs rebuilding
<plugwash> and they can set it on a per architecture basis
<sivang> imbrandon: right, all uploads are source uploads in ubuntu
* imbrandon never understood the reason to alloow binary uploads to debian anyhow
<imbrandon> sivang, yea thats the point i was making
<plugwash> imbrandon well it makes it much easier to get self compiling compilers in
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I believe it also makes you prove you could build it :-)
<sivang> ah right, can relieve from having to bootstrap self contained langs
<imbrandon> plugwash, well thats a corner case , not needed for the vast majority of packages that can be bootstraped
* plugwash never succeeded in his attemts to find someone with both the time and the authority to get freepascal into ubuntu
<sivang> anyway, anyone have opinion on what looks to be completely deserted pygsm ?
* sivang notes p.q.d.o seems to have never heared about it as well
<imbrandon> sivang, check the rdepends and file a bug for removal
<imbrandon> imho
<ajmitch> oh look, root exploit in the nvidia binary driver
<ajmitch> what a surprise
<sivang> ajmitch: hehe
<imbrandon> hahahahah
<sivang> who discovered it?
<sivang> nvidia? :)
<ajmitch> it's a familiar bug - the same one that had the code of conduct screen taking down X
<ajmitch> no
<imbrandon> sony rootkit ? heh
<ajmitch> nvidia would have silently fixed it, I'm sure
<ajmitch> http://download2.rapid7.com/r7-0025/
<ajmitch> the DoS listed is identical to one that has shown up a few times on malone
<geser> sivang: pygsm seems to be also dead upstream, the last and only release was on December 27, 2003
<sivang> geser: indeed, I am now filing a removal request
<sivang> geser: (made sure that has no rdepends)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-17
<LaserJock> heh, I caused my first core dump, how lovely
<herzi> nice
<herzi> how did you do it?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> just put in a function I shouldn't have
<imbrandon> blah(int) { int / 0 };
<imbrandon> ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> could of been an infinite loop
<LaserJock> not sure
<imbrandon> a infinate loop wouldent cause a core would it ? well it could run out of memory i guess
<LaserJock> I'm not sure
<LaserJock> it just sat there an chugged away on something for a couple seconds and then dumped
<newz2000> oh, btw, you can use tiber again. :-D It was down for severals hours but is back now.
<imbrandon> newz2000, rockin, thanks
<newz2000> Still on old kernel though.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ping
<geser> imbrandon: if he loops over an data structure and tries to access beyond it, it will certainly segfault
<imbrandon> geser, true
<imbrandon> off by one ? heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yessir?
<imbrandon> 2 things, one , do you know about how they handle security on the porter machines >?
<imbrandon> i'm working on the farm spec some more
<imbrandon> and 2 can you re-fixup ( import ) my login keys for tiber ( now that its back up )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea, and possibly, if I can login
<ajmitch> your new ssh key is on launchpad?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yup
<ajmitch> which one? :)
<imbrandon> one is my laptop and one my desktop , use the laptop one please ( intrepid )
<imbrandon> thats the one i will eventualy set my desktop up to use
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I just copied both, try & login
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> works
<imbrandon> thanks
<sivang> imbrandon: what's the porter machine?
<ajmitch> sivang: debian machines
<imbrandon> sivang, debian machines
<rmjb>  -> Considering  debhelper (>= 5.0.37.2)
<rmjb>       Tried versions: 5.0.7ubuntu13
<rmjb>    -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
<rmjb> shouldn't that dependency be met?
<imbrandon> 37 > 7
<sivang> so anyway, u-m-l is now kernel-patch-uml ?
<rmjb> oh, okay
<sivang> (hence all pakcages depending on it should now depend on this instead)
<sivang> like guml, for instance
<shawarma> user-mode-linux is not available in Ubuntu, afaik.
<shawarma> It wouldn't make sense to have it as a kernel-patch- package since it's included in mainline kernel these days.
<shawarma> Anything depending on it will have to wait until edgy+1.
<shawarma> I discussed this with BenC earlier today. He told me to write a spec about it: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/user-mode-linux
<shawarma> sivang: which bug?
<sivang> shawarma: oh, I see, let me update the bug report
<rmjb> to update my dapper pbuilder to edgy I just have to do this: sudo pbuilder update --distribution edgy --override-config --othermirror "deb http://tt.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe multiverse" right?
<sivang> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/user-mode-linux/+bug/2735
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2735 in user-mode-linux "Package Missing" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<shawarma> found it
<shawarma> sivang: Oh, I'm updating it, too.
<sivang> shawarma: cool, thanks
<shawarma> garh, you beat me to it. :-)
<shawarma> Well, I somehow managed to stay awake until 1 AM again now. I'm off to bed.
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> good night !
<shawarma> Back at you!
<sivang> We'll see :)
* shawarma has left the building!
<rmjb> I get an error on that command I pasted above, does it look right to anyone?
<VoX> so.. who's read the security bulletin about the closed-source nvidia drivers?
<Fujitsu> VoX, me.
<Fujitsu> I can't get the exploit to work, though.
<VoX> it's scared the shit out of me
<Fujitsu> That's what binary drivers do, yes.
<VoX> and a few other guys i know running the cs drivers
<VoX> heh
<LaserJock> I don't see why it would matter
<imbrandon> as it should VoX, cs stuff is very scarry that way
<LaserJock> but then I'm not really into the security stuff
<imbrandon> LaserJock, a root exploit is nasty heh
<LaserJock> only if it happens to you ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, arbitrary code execution as root simply by viewing a web page is pretty nasty, I think.
<Fujitsu> And it's unfixable.
<imbrandon> heh well sorta, it gives Linux as a whole a bad name too if there is enough of them
<imbrandon> as it has done with windoww
<LaserJock> I suppose
<imbrandon> s/ww/ws
<Fujitsu> If the driver were open source, the flaw would have been fixed within hours... But we'll probably be waiting weeks for NVIDIA to release it.
<LaserJock> sure
<imbrandon> mmmm vanilla milkshake /me is in heaven ...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<LaserJock> does const in C++ have a type?
<LaserJock> or is that a type?
<bddebian> const what?
<bddebian> Hi btw LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<LaserJock> ah, I think I found it
<bddebian> LaserJock: It should have const int or const char, etc
<imbrandon> 11980, just cant seem to make 12000
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, it's const Value which was confusing me
<minghua> technically speaking const is a type modifier, not a type, I think
<LaserJock> bddebian: but I figured it out
<minghua> at least in C
<LaserJock> :-)
<bddebian> Ah
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> hi LaserJock, and hi imbrandon, bddebian and Fujitsu :-)
<Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
* Fujitsu pats wireless.
<Fujitsu> No boring physics classes!
<imbrandon> heya minghua
<minghua> physics classes are good
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, lol
<LaserJock> but chemistry clases are best
<bhale> physics classes are good for a nap
<Fujitsu> minghua, not when you're doing nothing in this lesson.
<bddebian> Hi minghua :)
<minghua> Fujitsu: what subject is your class?
<Fujitsu> Currently revising the photoelectric effect.
<minghua> ah, wonderful discovery by Einstein
* minghua misses his physics classes, actually
<LaserJock> also great for the optical mollases
<LaserJock> man I love python
* bddebian has no class
<LaserJock> these types and pointers are giving me a headache
<imbrandon> bddebian, hehe
<bddebian> LaserJock: pointers will make your head explode
<bddebian> especially pointers to pointers and pointers to functions :-)
* imbrandon sits in a corner and sucks his thumb at the thought of using pointers again
<bddebian> heh
* bddebian points at imbrandon
<imbrandon> that was one of the main reasons i picked up c# instead of getting deeper in c++ back in the day
<bhale> yay C#
<imbrandon> NO POINTERS hehe
<bddebian> C# "back in the day"? Hah
<imbrandon> heh well back in 2002
<bddebian> Fortran, or COBOL was "back in the day" ;-P
<imbrandon> or so
<minghua> LaserJock: OT, but, how is photoelectric effect good for optical molasses?
<rmjb> bddebian: showing your age?
<imbrandon> 2001 maybe, dont rember when the last time i "really" looked at a c++ project serouisly
<bddebian> rmjb: Oh, I'm old :(
<LaserJock> minghua: well, just showing that photons act as particles, hence light has a momentum
<bddebian> What does that have to do with molasses cookies?
<minghua> LaserJock: oh okay, thanks
<LaserJock> minghua: if you hit a stream of atoms with a laser you can give the atoms momentum in the opposite direction from which they are travelling
<LaserJock> so they slow down
<minghua> yes, yes I know how laser cooling works
<LaserJock> it acts like molasses
<LaserJock> my lab is working on a similar concept, but with angular momentum
<lastnode> imbrandon, got a sec?
<minghua> although I have never heard of the term optical molasses before (and LaserJock's typo doesn't help when you look it up in wikipedia :-)
<LaserJock> sorry
<imbrandon> lastnode, sure wasup
<lastnode> imbrandon, need a sec to talk about making that .deb. could you hop in #upstream-dev for a sec?
<LaserJock> "hukd on fonics wrkd 4 me" :-)
<bddebian> hahaha
<minghua> bddebian: I don't think it has anything to do with real sweet molasses
<imbrandon> not me ;(
<minghua> I suspect that's a term coined by chemists :-P
<LaserJock> of course, we like cookies
<LaserJock> and are not as crazy as the physicists
<LaserJock> my gosh, I have no idea where this pointer is pointing to
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, that's the point of pointers.
* Fujitsu ducks.
<LaserJock> grrr
<LaserJock> but for some reason it matters if it's a float or a string
<bddebian> It points to some location in memory :-)
<minghua> well, float* usually points to a float, while char* is a string :-P
<bddebian> A pointer is a pointer, it isn't a float or a string ;-P
<LaserJock> bah
<minghua> I suppose in C you can argue a string is very close to a char pointer
<bddebian> In C you could argue there is not such thing as a string ;-P
<Fujitsu> A pointer is a long!
<LaserJock> what is a virtual ?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, able to be overridden by a derivative class.
<minghua> Fujitsu: s/able to/must/ ?
<Fujitsu> If no block of code is defined for it in the parent, it is `pure virtual', and has to be overridden.
<Fujitsu> I think
<Fujitsu> I haven't used C++ in years.
<minghua> Hmm...
<minghua> I supposed I confused virtual and pure virtual
<ajmitch> ugh, C++ semantics
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<bhale> hi aj
<LaserJock> darn it, I told it what type it was!
<minghua> hi ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Hey ajmitch.
<minghua> ajmitch: I told imbrandon yesterday that you said for unmet deps universe package we can upload *then* ping.  I hope I didn't misrepresent you
<ajmitch> minghua: either way I'll hear about it soon enough
<ajmitch> making packages installable is a bit more useful than fixing package descriptions, for example :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: hrm i wonder if this is related to that long text bug: http://lwn.net/Articles/204542/
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yes, it is
<ajmitch> the appropriate people know already :)
<Lathiat> would be cool if someone made the root exploit work from a browser ;)
<Fujitsu> Lathiat, that depends on your definition of `cool'.
<Lathiat> of course
<Lathiat> by cool it would be "i can't use a web browser" or "i have to sacrifice my dual head"
<imbrandon> i dont think "cool" would be the word i would use
<zakame> hi all
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<zakame> yo imbrandon
<ajmitch> Lathiat: but they say it's fixed in the crackful beta drivers :)
<imbrandon> wow now THIS is a kernel version
<imbrandon> Linux gobstopper 2.4.32-grsec+f6b+gr217+nfs+a32+fuse23+tg+++opt+c8+gr2b-v6.194
* imbrandon rolls eyes
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> thats the kernel version for my webhost for imbrandon.com ( dreamhost )
<zakame> zomg
<Kyral> lol
<Lathiat> nice
<imbrandon> its a dual core x2 server though ;)
<imbrandon> err two amd opteron dual core proc's
<ajmitch> nice
<ajmitch> gimme
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> ajmitch, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27061/
<whiprush> evening guys
<imbrandon> heya whiprush
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<ajmitch> imbrandon: single cpu, dual core?
<whiprush> man, release freeze already
<imbrandon> 2 cpu and 2core each
<imbrandon> 4core
<imbrandon> s
<bddebian> 4core and 7 years ago...
<imbrandon> 2x Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 175
<bddebian> Heya whiprush
<imbrandon> bddebian, yea old but work horses ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what does top show?
<imbrandon> hum lemme look
<ajmitch> since my dual-core X2 shows very similar /proc/cpuinfo output
<ajmitch> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27062/ <-- my desktop
<zakame> yo whiprush , ajmitch
<whiprush> hmmm, I am lusting for a new core2duo desktop.
<Lathiat> yeh its tempting
<ajmitch> whiprush: get me one while you're at it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss_stats2.png
<Lathiat> but i only just bought an X2 like 6 months ago :\
<imbrandon> whiprush, me too
<ajmitch> Lathiat: same..
<whiprush> any of you guys know about that funky plug intel has for doing multiple outputs off the built in card?
<Lathiat> mm 4G of ram
<Lathiat> i only have 2 :(
<ajmitch> imbrandon: in top, hit '1' & take the screenshot again
<ajmitch> 6GB swap? that's excessive
<Lathiat> yeh that seems a bit nuts
<Lathiat> i dont have much swap these days
<Lathiat> usually maybe 1G tops
* ajmitch has none
<Lathiat> i think my desktop has 512M now
<ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:    3311728     733264
<ajmitch> go edgy!
<Lathiat> jsut enough to move bits of crap out of the way
<ajmitch> mem hog
<imbrandon> ajmitch, refresh it , named the file the same
<ajmitch> imbrandon: right, so it's 'just' a single dual-core CPU
<imbrandon> heh darn
<imbrandon> still nice considering what i'm paying and what i get ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> cpuinfo is a bit misleading in that sense
<ajmitch> not really
<ajmitch> 2.4 didn't really know about multi-core machines
<imbrandon> true
<ajmitch> you'll see that 2.6 has the physical id
<ajmitch> & the core id
<imbrandon> no idea why they still are running 2.4
<imbrandon> security man hours probably
<imbrandon> its debian 3.1 based iirc , lemme look
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> imbrandon@gobstopper:~$ cat /etc/issue
<imbrandon> Debian GNU/Linux 3.1
<whiprush> "The New queue is empty."
<whiprush> that's weird
<minghua> sabdfl uses KDE himself, right?
<imbrandon> minghua, he uses both, kde on his desktop and gnome on his laptop
<imbrandon> but he's on his laptop more
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> Oh.  he must have really good context switching then :-)
<zakame> should.. use... gnome.. more
<imbrandon> here we go
<minghua> (in case anybody wonders why I am asking this -- sabdfl became the first patron of KDE (whatever that means))
<imbrandon> minghua, it means he donated $6000 USD a year to KDE e.V basicly
<carthik> wow, neat sum.
<imbrandon> the article that tells about him becoming the first patron also tells how to become one ;)
<zakame> I'm donating muchof my time using KDE ;p
<minghua> imbrandon: yes I know it's donation related, I was just commenting on the word choice
<Kyral> Freenode Staff == Awesome :P
<carthik> we all donate as much by way of man hours I guess :)
<imbrandon> Kyral, yes they are ;)
<minghua> honestly I don't know what patron usually means
<minghua> I think I heard it first in "memoir of a geisha" :-)
<imbrandon> patron normaly means somehting like "regular customer" or something close
<imbrandon> leaste in us english
<zakame> minghua: hmm a somewhat different kind of `patron' ;)
<imbrandon> if you goto the same petrol station to get your fule regularly you are a "patron" of that petrol station
<zakame> yeah
<imbrandon> fuel*
<minghua> I suppose the patron used by KDE is different than the one imbrandon talks about
<imbrandon> minghua, no it means they have made a promis to donate a set ammount over a set time
<imbrandon> e.g. $6000 USD a year
<minghua> as dictionary.cambridge.org has patron (SUPPORTER) and patron (CUSTOMER)
<minghua> imbrandon: yes, yes, your explanation is quite clear
<zakame> more like a pledge
<imbrandon> well if you really think about it a customer is a supporter, e.g. if you buy windows your supporting it ;)
<minghua> it's just always hard to understand a completely new word
<imbrandon> but a supporter is not always a customer, but a customer is always a supporter
<imbrandon> err yea
<imbrandon> zakame, yea like a pledge
<imbrandon> there is a lesser pledge i forget the "title" but its only $120 USD a year, i thought about that one possibly later
<imbrandon> ( once i get some more contract work, its getting scarce )
<imbrandon> anyone wanna pay me to do something hehehe ( joking really )
<zakame> hehe
* imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> sooo anyting on the table tonight ? ajmitch how are umet deps
<ajmitch> imbrandon: way too much work to do
<imbrandon> any work i can knock out that needs to be done and can be accepted ?
<imbrandon> i'm bored tonight
<imbrandon> most of my other stuff has to wait for +1
<ajmitch> please just do it
<ajmitch> I worry that this freeze has really slowed down the number of fixes done in universe
<imbrandon> just do what ? some unmet deps stuff ? or you got something else more pressing
<ajmitch> unmet deps stuff is fine
<imbrandon> ok so normal bug fixes
<imbrandon> for uni
<ajmitch> as well as FTBFS stuff that may have been filed
<ajmitch> unmet deps is important as those packages can't even be installed
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I think it has, yes... This short release cycle has in general been terrible for fixing things.
<Fujitsu> That reminds me...
* Fujitsu uploads mpd.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I mean that the rate of fixes has dropped off a lot int he last week
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, naturally. The freeze will always slow things down.
<ajmitch> we've been disorganised :)
<imbrandon> bug 47493 can be closed correct ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47493 in aegis "[UNMETDEPS]  Build dependencies missing" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47493
<ajmitch> the freeze *shouldn't* be slowing you down
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well i took it as like main where only very very trivial fixes or very very critical
<ajmitch> I don't want it to slow people down at all
<ajmitch> unmet deps are critical enough
<imbrandon> right
<ajmitch> imbrandon: close it
<bddebian> Work has ground me to a halt :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: same, I've got a very pressing deadline in 2 weeks
<ajmitch> and that's the limit of how far we can push the deadline
<ajmitch> so I shouldn't be harassing you on irc now :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<bddebian> :-)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, it's the concept that it's frozen that is the problem. Even if exceptions are easy to get, the mere fact that it's frozen causes people to think that less is going to be happening, so they do less...
<Fujitsu> Plus, I've got exams, so I'm not doing a whole lot.
<imbrandon> wow debhelper >> 3.0.0
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> volunteers' real life usually don't mix well with release deadlines, as Debian has demonstrated in the past :-)
<bddebian> No kidding :-(
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I guess we may have to look at the universe freeze again for the next release
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I think so... And we need to not have UniverseFreeze and [insert major main/restricted milestone here]  on the same day.
<imbrandon> well to be very honest with the way universe works since its not on the CD i see having a UVF a month before release but no real all out freeze untill release
<imbrandon> just inho
<imbrandon> imho*
<ajmitch> I was surprised that we went with it
<ajmitch> I was hoping that it wouldn't discourage people from making fixes
<imbrandon> and really truefully i would love to see a prepetual universe and main releases only
<imbrandon> but i dont know how well that would work
<ajmitch> it used to be that we'd upload to universe up until release :)
<imbrandon> yea but i mean even after rlease where breezy dapper edgy all use the same universe
<minghua> blame the "everything converted to LP" move :-)
<imbrandon> pool
<imbrandon> although that wouldent be as good as it is in my mind in the real world
<imbrandon> as linking against diffrent gnome/kde version etc would suck
<imbrandon> was just a passing thought
<imbrandon> yea ajmitch i dont see the need tbh for a freeze for universe, UVF yea but not "all out freeze"
<imbrandon> like now
<ajmitch> imbrandon: we could just get Hobbsee to fix it all
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> dream on
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what do i need to fix now?
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: the universe
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ok if a package r/c a package and has replaced it but another package builds against it , shlibs is still picking up the old name, does it need a Provides: XXX too ?
<ajmitch> you shouldn't have anything important like exams on
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no, shlibs needs fixed
<Fujitsu> And I'll throw in multiverse too.
<ajmitch> though don't rely on anything I say today
<imbrandon> hum ok where is it willing shlibs what it provides /me hates libs sometimes
<imbrandon> s/willing/telling
<imbrandon> eg it builds against libsdl-sge-dev but shlibs finds libsdl-sgec2 but libsdl-sge r/c it
<imbrandon> thus unmetdep
<imbrandon> in that other package
<ajmitch> let me look..
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh right.  not a problem.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea wave your pointy stick at the universe, maybe it will fix its self
<minghua> or gets more broken, you never know
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> The universe will assemble itself out of fear of Hobbsee!
<ajmitch> what a screwed up library package
<imbrandon> hahaha i was thinking that but i'm a lib newb kinda so i thought it might have just been me
<ajmitch> I hope they're avoiding SONAME in the package name just because the library is unstable
* imbrandon is glad he wasent wrong
<ajmitch>         dh_makeshlibs -V 'libsdl-sge (>= 030809-1)'
<ajmitch> right, so that *should* be the right shlibs line
<bddebian> Gnight folks.  Keep up the good work!
* ajmitch checks the package
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<ajmitch> :0:> less /var/lib/dpkg/info/libsdl-sge.shlibs
<ajmitch> libSGE 0 libsdl-sge (>= 030809-1)
<ajmitch> ok, that still looks sane
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hrm yea BUT libsdl-ruby1.8 still picks up libsdl-sgec2 for some reason
<imbrandon> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4-1), libgl1-mesa | libgl1, libruby1.8 (>= 1.8.4), libsdl-image1.2 (>= 1.2.5), libsdl-mixer1.2 (>= 1.2.6), libsdl-sgec2, libsdl-ttf2.0-0, libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.10-1), libsmpeg0
* ajmitch rebuilds libsdl-ruby1.8 for fun
<imbrandon> i just did
<imbrandon> thats what sent me on this chase
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> rebuilding with DH_VERBOSE set
<ajmitch> which is a flag I like
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<ajmitch> they can't take launchpad away from us!
<imbrandon> that and dh_install --list-missing save me lots of times ;)
<imbrandon> gah just as i get started for the night lp is going down
<ajmitch> yeah
<minghua> LP will be down in 30 minutes as announced in #ubuntu-devel
<ajmitch> it'll be down just as I get home & get settled into doing some work
* Fujitsu strangles somebody.
<Fujitsu> How can they take our infrastructure down just like that?
<imbrandon> it will hopefully only be one hour as they say
<TheMuso> heh. I like what infinity said.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's canonical infrastructure, nothing we control
<Fujitsu> Yes, as do I.
<imbrandon> [23:04]  <infinity> stub: BTW, from here until release, we'd probably appreciate something more like 24 hours' notice. :)
<imbrandon> NICE ^^
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, but it's critical infrastructure for us...
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes, that was good.
<TheMuso> argh I get annoyed with no less than three packages having to update the initramfs.
<TheMuso> One after the other.
<TheMuso> Actually, make that four.
<TheMuso> No, just three.
<TheMuso> :)
<Fujitsu> Fun fun fun.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> I wonder if they plan to streamline that somehow in the future.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea thats fun isnt it, someting should que it up to do it once at the end , kinda like debconf preconfigure only postconfigure
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yeah.
<imbrandon> specialy with usplash updating the initramfs, thats what causes it 90% of the time
<imbrandon> with 2 or 3 of those pluss kernels installed its fun updating
<TheMuso> Well for me it was udev, volumeid and its bits.
<TheMuso> Ok this time it was initramfs-tools, udev, and volumeid
<minghua> I think you need apt/aptitude/whatever to do that, right?  As dpkg doesn't know what packages are upgraded together
<minghua> and we just have way too many package managers
<imbrandon> trash them all and just keep apt-get ;)
<TheMuso> I am sure it has been thought about at some point.
<minghua> but maybe aptitude call apt-get internally, I don't know
<minghua> what I know is some upgrade bugs only occur when you use aptitude, not when using apt-get
<minghua> or vice versa
<TheMuso> ooo.
<TheMuso> We know what edgy+1 is now?
<TheMuso> ah right.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, it was a slip i'm sure as it hasent been officialy announced hehe ( but i know a few canonical employees know )
<imbrandon> shhh
<TheMuso> Right.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I've seen that slip before
<imbrandon> ajmitch, another person that shall be unnamed slipped the same thing a week or so agoi
<imbrandon> ago*
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ajmitch, email them and see if you can get a last minute sponsorship
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> not going to happen
<ajmitch> I was already turned down by canonical
<imbrandon> yea i wouldent think so
<ajmitch> they're not going to reconsider
<imbrandon> you put in this time ?
<ajmitch> sure
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> i dident lok
<ajmitch> got the rejection email & all
<imbrandon> look
<imbrandon> ouch
<ajmitch> I expected that
<imbrandon> i was suprised when i got mine
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> i dident think i would this time ( figured next time )
* ajmitch is going to walk home now, back online in ~10min
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> more mt dew, brb
<chillywilly> bah.....
<imbrandon> chillywilly, ?
<chillywilly> just having fun with this package... ;P
<chillywilly> I think I need to write some debconf stuff as a database needs to be setup before the daemon is sparked up...
<ajmitch> ok, I'm back
<ajmitch> chillywilly: use dbconfig-common
<chillywilly> yea, saw that in a package I just looked at
<chillywilly> cacti ;)
<imbrandon> wb ajmitch
<imbrandon> hum see if we had a slushfund we could build a farm and send you to mtv ;)
* imbrandon mumbes
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> anyhow how did the build go ?
<ajmitch> yeah, some people have talked about that
<ajmitch> not for me, but for developers in general
<imbrandon> yea i think it would be a good thing, the only bad part would be deciding how to spend the money
<ajmitch>  Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4-1), libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, libruby1.8 (>= 1.8.4), libsdl-image1.2 (>= 1.2.5), libsdl-mixer1.2 (>= 1.2.6), libsdl-sge (>= 030809-1), libsdl-ttf2.0-0, libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.10-1), libsmpeg0
<ajmitch> always a problem
<ajmitch> a rebuild went fine
<imbrandon> hum, wonder why mine dident
<ajmitch> voodoo
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> anyhow look like that one just needs to be rebuild/reuploaded you wanna do it ?
* ajmitch is running on sleep deprivation after 2 nights of not enough sleep, and just getting home from work :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> DO IT!
<imbrandon> kk got it
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you da man
* chillywilly is too old for that crap
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you want to check over bug 66507?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66507 in gnunet "[DEBDIFF]  gnunet: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66507
<ajmitch> I just saw it come in
<imbrandon> ajmitch, sure
* ajmitch doesn't trust himself to pick up problems
<imbrandon> ok uploaded if you can poke infinity to push it through ( libsdl-ruby_1.1.0-1ubuntu1.dsc )
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^'
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> what change did you make to it?
<ajmitch> if it's a rebuild only, I'll have to lart you
<imbrandon> none just a rebuild
<chillywilly> I love ruby
<imbrandon> libsdl-ruby (1.1.0-1ubuntu1) edgy; urgency=low
<imbrandon>   * Rebuild against the new libsdl-sge to fix a UNMETDEP
<imbrandon>   * Closes Malone: 65317
<ajmitch> if the package is unmodified & you need to rebuild it, 1.1.0-1 becomes 1.1.0-1build1
<ajmitch> so that it doesn't have to be merged next time
<imbrandon> gah ok, reject that i can change and reupload
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> ajmitch, Uploading via ftp libsdl-ruby_1.1.0-1build1.dsc: done.
<ajmitch> we'll hope that soyuz doesn't reject it
<imbrandon> i'll watch my email
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> ok, all done
<imbrandon> thanks
<imbrandon> i dident know MoM distinguishes
<minghua> I think that's the whole point of differentiating -XubuntuY and -XbuildY
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ugh is there a reason that this person changed the packaging to cdbs ?
<imbrandon> looks like a lot of divergence for justa  merge
<imbrandon> ( not to mention it was versioned wrong in the debdiff )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the debian maintainer did that
<ajmitch> the debdiff you're looking at is between 2 ubuntu versions
<imbrandon> they did ? ahh ok i see
<ajmitch> 17:58 < stub> Launchpad is going down in 15 minutes for a code update and data migration work. Estimated downtime is 1 hour but will hopefully be significantly less.
<ajmitch> so it's not quite down yet :)
<imbrandon> heh
* ajmitch is wandering off to do non-computer-stuff for awhile
<imbrandon> ajmitch, okies see ya in a bit
<Jozo-> imbrandon: Should I provide diffstat with different versions? (gnunet)
<imbrandon> Jozo-, no thats fine, i'm testbuilding now, i was looking at ti wrong thought /you/ converted it to cdbs
<imbrandon> not upstream
<imbrandon> but i re-read the changelog
<imbrandon> one note though you bumped the version from the MoM version, normaly you would just change that to your version
<imbrandon> eg change mom email address to yours and add your changes in that stanza, but i fixed all that for ya
<imbrandon> other than that its looks ok, just testing ti now
<Jozo-> Oh, now I know that :)
<imbrandon> yup, not a big deal ;) just letting ya know
<imbrandon> Jozo-, everything looks sane so far, i'll get the final "ok" to upload when ajmitch returns
<imbrandon> ajmitch, gnunet_0.7.0e-3ubuntu1.dsc checked, tweaked and uploaded, poke infinity please when you return
<imbrandon> Jozo-, ^^ fyi
<imbrandon> Jozo-, once ajmitch does that please close those two bugs on LP as fix released
<imbrandon> if you will
<LaserJock> doh, has anybody seen Fujitsu?
<imbrandon> wb LaserJock
<imbrandon> about 30 minutes ago LaserJock [00:01]  <-- Fujitsu has left this server ("Leaving").
<cbx33> guys anyone know why when I try to instal nvidia-glx....it tries to install the 386 kernel...even when I'm on the generic kernel?
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<imbrandon> cbx33, something about deping on the l-r-m from -386 , its in the logs from in here from yesterday
<cbx33> imbrandon, so it will be fixed soon?
<imbrandon> sorry i dont have a nvida card anymore so i wouldent know
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> I'll wait an see what happens
<imbrandon> cbx33, i would assume ( you might also note and get tyhe drivers from nvidia tbh becouse there was a root exploit released today )
<imbrandon> it might bee a while before it hits the archives
<cbx33> crikey?
<imbrandon> yup one of the downfalls of binary drivers
<imbrandon> :/
<cbx33> are we getting the beta driver do you know....someone told me we are
<imbrandon> well the root fix is in the beta, so i would assume but i dont know for sure
<cbx33> ok
<nixternal> seems there is a party going on tonight/today whatever
* imbrandon grumbles about binary drivers, even though they are sexy
<cbx33> if I did install from the nvidia source.....can I then update ith the package later? - or will I always have to rely on the nvidia sources
<cbx33> yeh I don't really want to use them.....but graphics tend to be so.....un-sexy....without them
<LaserJock> you can change later
<imbrandon> depends on if there is a make uninstall target ( and if you keep the source arround to run it )
<imbrandon> but should be doable
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks guys
<cbx33> right I'm off to do the dishes :p
<cbx33> nn LaserJock
<imbrandon> ;)
<Jozo-> imbrandon: ok
<imbrandon> nixternal, party ?
<nixternal> happy birthday to you
<nixternal> happy birthday to you
<imbrandon> umm i still have a few months
<nixternal> oh..sorry, i thought this was the birthday party for a Mr. Herman
* imbrandon feels nixternal's forehead, "you sick?"
<nixternal> of course
<nixternal> jeesh, you asked that like you just met me or something ;)
<nixternal> winky
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Wow. You using evolution?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea on the lappy i do
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> why ya ask?
<TheMuso> Just curious, knowing you are a KDE user and all.
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> shhh
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> :)
<imbrandon> i do use kmail on my desktop , evolution on the lappy and imap webmail anywhere else
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> mostly becosue my lappy was ubuntu to begin with and i converted it to kubuntu
<TheMuso> Aha.
<imbrandon> and i never setup kmail , /me was lazy
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, laserjock was looking for you about 30 minutes ago, dunno why
<imbrandon> yall should get jabber heheh
<Fujitsu> I have him on my contact list :)
<Fujitsu> Anybody seen dholbach around lately?
<imbrandon> not yet today, its almost time for him to wake
<Fujitsu> Ah, LaserJock emailed me.
<Fujitsu> And it was about what I needed to talk to dholbach about too :)
<Fujitsu> Darnit.
<Fujitsu> LP is offline, of course.
<Fujitsu> Curses curses curses.
<imbrandon> yea for ~1 hour
<nixternal> <Zanthis(ALE)> AFK, tornado
<nixternal> heh
* imbrandon uses the time to compile gnash and try ti
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: want to throw up a deb?
<Fujitsu> Hey Burgundavia.
<Burgundavia> hey Fujitsu
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, sure , if i get it working
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, what time did LP go down? I would think it should only have a few minutes of downtime left, if that...
<siretart> morning!
<Fujitsu> Heya siretart.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, about 15 minuts ago
<imbrandon> moins siretart
<Fujitsu> They said it'd be down in 30 minutes at about 14:00, didn't they?
<Fujitsu> Then 15 minutes at about 15:50...
<Fujitsu> What fun.
<Chandy> Hi
<imbrandon> hello
<Chandy> I want to know How Ubuntu is adding its own version ..like XubuntuY format
<Chandy> imbrandon, I am wokring on building a debian based distro .. I have modified some gnome related packages and few others ..and have added my own version same as ubuntu as XbossY format
<imbrandon> Chandy, that how we do it too
<Fujitsu> Chandy, re. what you were saying in -devel... Some packages have exact versioned dependencies, yes... You'll need to rebuild those.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, How do I find that these debian packages need thier dependent library or package with exact version
<Q-FUNK> Build-Depends:
<Chandy> imbrandon, Is Ubuntu is adding its own version for all 15000 packages of debian
<Fujitsu> You can use `apt-cache rdepend whatever' to find what depends on a certain package.
<Fujitsu> Chandy, no.
<imbrandon> not all of them, only the ones we change
<Fujitsu> Chandy, only ones where we modify the source package.
<Q-FUNK> only those that deviate from the debian package
<Q-FUNK> sync
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Modification in what sense ... if only image replacement ..source code editing
<imbrandon> Chandy, any change
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok
<imbrandon> might be good for you to browse the ubuntu package guide
<Chandy> imbrandon, Now I have built an image with my own modifiec packages .. After installing that ..Iam trying to install another package over that ..but it is asking that packages needs its dependent package exactly equal to debain upstream.. But in system boss version if present
<Chandy> imbrandon, What is the link of Ubuntu package guide
<imbrandon> !package guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<Chandy> ubotu, thank you
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about thank you - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> Chandy, ubotu is a bot ;)
<Chandy> Fujitsu, U told "apt-cache rdepend whatever" ,but it is giving error "invalid option rdepend"
<Fujitsu> rdepends, sorry.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, ok
<Kagou> morning
<zakame> yo Kagou
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Do I need to find the dependent packages for the packages which are installed in my system and compile those packages with my version and put it into my repository for resolving taht exact match problem
<Fujitsu> Pretty much, yes.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, For example if package lib6 is installed in my system ..If I use "apt-get redepends libc6" it will list all the other packages dependent on this ..So I need to compile those packages also for my version ..Then it wont give any problem for intaallation of those packages ..right
<TheMuso> Chandy: I hope you don't want to rebuild libc6.
* Fujitsu grumbles... Having no access to bugs or various package versions is somewhat limiting.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, !!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> imbrandon!!!!!
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: why so?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, we've got no LP, and I'm currently trying to prepare maxima/gcl fixes for -updates... It'd be nice to know what version of each Dapper has, without having to find a Dapper machine.
<Fujitsu> Plus the actual bug report would be useful too.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahhh...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: log into your dapper pbuilder.  or other ways
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, login to horatio then pbuilder-dapper login and apt-cache madison blah
<Hobbsee> like, p.u.c
<imbrandon> etc etc etc
<Fujitsu> True.
<Fujitsu> But LP is convenient.
<Hobbsee> true
<Chandy> Fujitsu, can ubuntu be upgraded from debian mirror
<Fujitsu> Chandy, what do you mean?
<Chandy> Fujitsu, I have installed dapper ..I will connect to debian etch mirror .. will it upgrade ubuntu
<Chandy> Fujitsu, If I do "apt-get dist-upgrade"
<zakame> wb dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<robitaille> Chandy:  no...since a debian etch mirror doesn't contain ubuntu packages, it will not be able to upgrade your ubuntu installation
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey zakame, Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> dholbach, I hear LaserJock spoke to you earlier about maxima/gcl.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: only very briefly
<dholbach> Fujitsu: we don't have a process for it yet, but I said to assign it to motu-uvf
<Fujitsu> dholbach, OK.
<dholbach> I think that a given use-case might help with figuring out the general process.
<dholbach> but I'd rather deal with edgy release stuff now - I hope you don't mind.
<Fujitsu> Of course, that's fine :)
<Chandy> robitaille, How apt-get will identify that debian etch mirror doesnt contain ubuntu packages
<Chandy> robitaille, All packages names will be same ..Only the version will be with ubuntu
<dholbach> Fujitsu: super, just mark it as SRU or something, so it sticks out
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, How do you check These pacakages are updated / upgraded in debian .. and How you will sync with that in Ubuntu
<imbrandon> Chandy, many man hours of work ;)
<Chandy> Fujitsu, What about other gnome packages ..Ubuntu is advanced than debian in application level
<Fujitsu> What imbrandon said, basically...
<Fujitsu> Chandy, we just have a higher version number.
<imbrandon> sometimes we are ahead yes, we get it from upsteam
<imbrandon> in those cases
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Thats ok ..How do you keep track of debian updatation
<imbrandon> Chandy, mostly by hand, checking
<Chandy> imbrandon, Upstream in the sense original gnome packages and make it debianized
<imbrandon> Chandy, yes
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok, so the maintainer resposible for that package will be doing this
<imbrandon> Chandy, well there is not "maintainer" in the debian sence in ubuntu , we all maintain all packages
<Fujitsu> Chandy, there are very few specific maintainers in Ubuntu.
<imbrandon> many hunderds of volenteers
<jldugger> there arent enough ubuntu developers to give "ownership" of a particular package to a specific person ;)
<Fujitsu> 14000/55 == something unpleasant.
* Fujitsu notes that LP has been down for quite some time now :S
<imbrandon> we all have our pet packages like i keep my eye on konversation and amarok , but i often touch alot more than just those, and others will occasionaly touch amarok or konversation etc
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Oh Ubuntu have only 55 developers
<Fujitsu> Chandy, 55 direct developers with upload privileges to universe.
<imbrandon> 55 MOTU's , a few more core-devs , but basicly less than 100 "full time" ( if you can use that word for a volnteer )
<Fujitsu> There are 42 or so people with main rights.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Ok
<Fujitsu> And the intersection between those two groups is great.
<Chandy> Are you using reprepro and dupload for uploading
<imbrandon> yea probably less than 75 total
<imbrandon> dput mostly
<Chandy> imbrandon, What is the fullform of MOTU
<Fujitsu> Master(s) of the Universe
<imbrandon> fullform ?
<Hobbsee> mistress of the universe :P
<Fujitsu> (and the number of actually active devs is minimal)
* Fujitsu hits Hobbsee.
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok
* Hobbsee thumps Fujitsu with her LONG POINTY STICK OF DOOOOOM!!!!
<Hobbsee> (tm)
<imbrandon> (c) (tm) (sm) Hobbsee 2006
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: sm?
* minghua frowns when Mistress of the Universe and long pointy stick is mentioned together
<imbrandon> service mark
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Hobbsee> minghua: hmm?
* Hobbsee decides that she doesnt want to know.
* Hobbsee is off
<Chandy> imbrandon, robitaille told that Ubuntu cannot be upgraded from debian etch mirror as it doesnt contain ubuntu packages ..
<imbrandon> correct
<Chandy> imbrandon, How come apt-get identifies that there is no ubunt package in debian mirror
<imbrandon> becouse there is no ubuntu packages in a debian mirror
<minghua> Chandy: by "can not be upgraded", it means more "if you do, it will be broken", instead of "you will be prevented from doing that"
<Chandy> imbrandon, thas ok ..apt-get while installing it checks for the package name and installs it ..ubuntu name is in version only ..How it identifies
<imbrandon> ubuntu and debian are based of the same code, and ideas but differ greatly and for the most part arent compatable except in corrner cases
<imbrandon> just becosue it WILL install debs dosent make it work right
<Chandy> imbrandon, How you are preventing from doing that
<imbrandon> think about installing a SuSE rpm in Redhat
<Chandy> minghua, How you are preventing ffrom doing that
<imbrandon> Chandy, preventing what ?
<imbrandon> your not prevented from trying, but you will end up with a broken system is what he was saying
<Chandy> imbrandon, preventing installing debs from debian mirror ..
<imbrandon> your not prevented from trying, but you will end up with a broken system is what he was saying
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok
<imbrandon> i can install a SuSE rpm on my Fedora box and it will install but it will most likely break my system
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok
<imbrandon> or i can install a windows 3.1 app on my windows XP but it will not likely work ( atleaste not right )
<imbrandon> same thing, ubuntu and debian are based on the same base and ideas but thats all
<imbrandon> intermixing debs WILL break your system eventualy
<Fujitsu> Unless you really, really know what you're doing.
<imbrandon> same thing for Knaotix,Xandros,Freespire,etc etc etc any other deb based distro
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, even knowing what your doing you'll break it eventualy heh
<jldugger> ive installed rpms intended for redhat 9 on my dapper workstation ;)
<imbrandon> unless you rebuild it for your system
<jldugger> little tool called "alien" works magic :)
<Fujitsu> jldugger, at least you didn't mention the dirty word.
<Fujitsu> BAH!
<Fujitsu> KILL!
<jldugger> hah
<imbrandon> jldugger, alien is a curse word in here
<Fujitsu> You said it right as I sent that... Evil evil evil.
<imbrandon> so is checkinstall
<imbrandon> ;)
<jldugger> well, when avr gcc is patched to accept $s in identifiers
<jldugger> i can consider non-hack approaches
<Fujitsu> .......
<Fujitsu> You installed GCC using alien?
<jldugger> and it works
<Q-FUNK> yikes
<Fujitsu> Are you trying to get yourself killed, or something?
<imbrandon> omg jldugger i just officialy disowned you
<imbrandon> lol
<jldugger> heh
<jldugger> its avr-gc
<jldugger> avr-gcc
<jldugger> im not going to rebuild the entire toolchain for tinyOS
<jldugger> not when they go and patch the whole damn thing anyways
<jldugger> tinyOS is quite a mess
<jldugger> so which is worse, checkinstall or Automatix?
<imbrandon> hahah both
<Fujitsu> You have a foul mouth, jldugger.
<Q-FUNK> *boink*
<imbrandon> alien , checkinstall , and automatix will get you disowned in the development channels
<Chandy> imbrandon, May I know what are the tools your are using for compiling packages and uploading it into the repository
<imbrandon> Chandy, devscripts and dput
<imbrandon> Chandy, all this is covere in the package guide
<imbrandon> that we pointed you to
<imbrandon> covered*
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok ok Iam going thru that
<jldugger> imbrandon, ok, so what course of action should a righteous developer take when confronted with a vendor who provides RPMs?
<imbrandon> grab the source and make a deb
<imbrandon> ( or bug them to do so )
<imbrandon> installing from source imho is better than alien
<imbrandon> safer too
<Fujitsu> Using checkinstall is better than alien.
<Q-FUNK> imbrandon: the answer to that one (especially if we're talking about binary-only software) is that LSB-RPM is the only format they "support."
<jldugger> the spirtually pure might want to cover their ears, cuz its about to get "dirty" in here:
<imbrandon> if its binary only it most of the time they are commercial and if they want your business they will make a package for your system
<jldugger> i doubt asking for a .deb will go anywhere because 96 percent of their user base is using Cygwin
<imbrandon> jldugger, well then install from source ( or checkinstall but dont distribute it heh )
<jldugger> but... building a cross compiler is hard =(
<minghua> I suppose installing rpm and let rpm handles the RPM packages for you is not a bad idea, is it?
<jldugger> and also i don't feel like figuring out what sorts of BS tricks they hid in that tool chain
<imbrandon> jldugger, tell me about it i've been maintaining powerpc and arm cross compilers and packagers on i386
<imbrandon> ;)
<jldugger> heh
<Fujitsu> minghua, it is a very bad idea.
<Fujitsu> What if you install a package using both RPM and dpkg?
<jldugger> i cant imagine rpm and dpkg coexisting nicely
<jldugger> So if these things are so bad, why has nobody gone to the effort of explaining why this is so in the wiki?
<minghua> Fujitsu: I suppose I'll have to keep both pieces, but I honestly don't think there is a better way
<Fujitsu> minghua, there is a much better way... DON'T USE RPMS, DAMNIT!
<minghua> basically I want to say is that if I am careful I can use rpm on a deb-based system
<minghua> Fujitsu: oh, only if Intel can ship .debs for their compilers
<Fujitsu> You can, yes... But there really isn't a reason to.
<Fujitsu> Do they not ship source?
<minghua> of course not
<jldugger> icc?
<jldugger> hell no
<jldugger> that would be useful
<jldugger> icc is for proving that intel chips are better than others in circumstances nobody bothers to replicate ;)
<Fujitsu> Have you emailed them, telling them that they are evil nasty discriminatory $#*@$(*@$s?
<imbrandon> yea i need it for my ppc ;)
<jldugger> Have you emailed anyone saying that?
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> jldugger, no, I haven't. I don't use proprietary software.
<minghua> well, I am taking their tools for free well they are selling them for money, so I don't really want to push that point :-)
<jldugger> Fujitsu, i don't use icc either.
<jldugger> avast ye
<minghua> just for the record -- neither do I.  I use intel's Fortran compiler
<Fujitsu> Intel Fortran!?
<Fujitsu> Urgh.
<minghua> huh?  what's wrong with Intel Fortran?
<jldugger> on the other hand, if icc outputs intel style asm
<Fujitsu> minghua, why Intel Fortran?
<jldugger> it might be worth it to never see another %
<imbrandon> jldugger / Fujitsu , http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27067/
<minghua> Fujitsu: well, just their compiler.  the code is perfect good ISO fortran 90, there is just no open source compiler that can handle it
<imbrandon> heh infact now that i look i have 13 cross compilers installed http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27068/
<imbrandon> not that i use all of them ( only 2 or 3 really )
<TheMuso> imbrandon: You have gone ahead and done more?
<TheMuso> Wow!
<imbrandon> TheMuso, might as well do them all at the same time, they are all from the same "base" ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> i did all gcc and libc supports
<jldugger> ok. i gotta stop staying up till 4 in the morning
<imbrandon> jldugger, hahah welcome to my world, i get the most done at night
<imbrandon> brb more mt dew
<jldugger> yea, but you dont have a job or classes :P
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> true
<jldugger> 4 in the morning was okay during the summer when i could set my own hours
<jldugger> so yea, gnite
<Chandy> imbrandon, What is the difference between main,universe,multiverse and restricted sections
<Chandy> imbrandon, Which team is responsible for main section
<imbrandon> ubuntu-core-dev
<minghua> imbrandon: they are talking about gnunet upload in -devel
<imbrandon> !components
<ubotu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and !easysource
<Chandy> ubotu, Thank you
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Thank you - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Chandy> ubotu, What is the difference between main and universe section ..Both contains pacakges which are available for free with free license
<minghua> !ubotu
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
<Chandy> imbrandon, What is the difference between main and universe section ..Both contains pacakges which are available for free with free license
<Chandy> imbrandon, Is there any package difference in these or both contains all 14000 packages
<imbrandon> main is supported by cacnonical and shiped on the cd
<imbrandon> universe is community supported
<TheMuso> Not all of main goes on the CD afaik.
* minghua agrees with TheMuso
<Chandy> imbrandon, So which packages goes into the Ubuntu CD..main or universe
<TheMuso> Chandy: Packages from main.
<TheMuso> Universe packages are only available on the net.
<imbrandon> [03:47]  <imbrandon> main is supported by cacnonical and shiped on the cd
<TheMuso> However, given enough of a reason, a package can be promoted to main during a development cycle.
<Chandy> TheMuso: Then What is the difference between the same package available in cd i.e in main section and in universe section
<imbrandon> the same package isnt in both
<TheMuso> Any one package cannot be in main and universe.
<Chandy> imbrandon, supported by cacnonical means what
<TheMuso> Chandy: That canonical make sure the package stays up to date, including security fixes.
<TheMuso> And is stable.
<Chandy> TheMuso, Does main contains only those pacakges which are in cd
<imbrandon> Chandy, means you can pay canonical to get support by phone , and they pay employees to security update them
<TheMuso> If users report bugs, they fix them etc.
<TheMuso> Chandy: Most of the packages in main go on the CD, but there are some that don't.
<Chandy> TheMuso, ok, Then approximately how many packages may be in main and how many in universe
<Chandy> TheMuso, I hope universe is like the debian repository with all 15000 packages
<TheMuso> Chandy: I wouldn't know personally, but I am sure some scripting/command guru around here can come up with a cmmand/script that can tell us/
<Chandy> TheMuso, does all the pacakges which goes into the cd contains XubuntuY format version ..
<imbrandon> Chandy, no , we explaind this, only packages that are changed
<TheMuso> Chandy: Well the repository is certainly all in Ubuntu as far as I know, but just split into two sections.
<TheMuso> Chandy: No.
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok
<Chandy> TheMuso, ok
<TheMuso> The package only has an ubuntuX in its version because it has been changed by people working on the package specifically for Ubuntu.
<TheMuso> Ubuntu even has packages that Debian doesn't.
<imbrandon> Chandy, i urge you to read the developers documentation that i pointed you to, it explains almost every question you have asked
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea we explained that about 3 times tonight so far ;P
<imbrandon> Chandy, dont get me wrong, we would love to awnser any question you have but please do a bit of homework first
<Chandy> imbrandon, ok..I was little bit confused .. I will go thru the documentation
<imbrandon> sure ;)
<StevenK> dholbach: I have an upload of libgalago-gtk that is a rebuold that makes it installable again. You're on the galago team, do you mind if I go ahead?
<dholbach> StevenK: I think it's just a give back, no?
<dholbach> but sure go ahead, i'll update bzr
<StevenK> dholbach: It isn't a give back, -0ubuntu3 built sucessfully.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> StevenK: thanks!
<StevenK> dholbach: No problem.
<TheMuso> Chandy: It depends on which version of Ubuntu you want to base it on.
<TheMuso> And depends on what part of the CD you want to customiz.
<TheMuso> customize
<ajmitch> dholbach: ah, you sorted your irc troubles :)
<dholbach> yeah, I'm quite happy :)
<imbrandon> dholbach, well connected shell ? heh
<dholbach> imbrandon: no, they seem to have unbanned my provider
<imbrandon> ahh
<dholbach> using irssi on my server made me sick :)
<imbrandon> dholbach, bip FTW ;)
<imbrandon> i run bip on my server and the gui client of choice ;)
<Adri2000> why are there two teams on launchpad motu and ubuntu-dev?
<ajmitch> dholbach: just hope that they don't ban it again - they've been having lots of trouble with people from your probider
<imbrandon> Adri2000, MOTU is the older unused team
<dholbach> Adri2000: motu is to forward univers bugs to universe-bugs@
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah and one crack monkey used my nick to pester people in #ubuntu
<Adri2000> ok
<dholbach> imbrandon: will check it out
<ajmitch> yes, I saw that
<ajmitch> were they in -devel as well?
<TheMuso> dholbach: ouch.
<imbrandon> dholbach, when and if you do lemme know, i'll give ya some tips, i've helped a few others set it up as its not 100% streight forward ( but is in the universe repo )
<imbrandon> but once its configured its very very nice
<dholbach> imbrandon: ok cool - thanks for that.
<TheMuso> meh. Irssi & screen all the way. :)
<imbrandon> heh bip + {konversation,xchat} all the way ;)
* ajmitch hugs irssi
* ajmitch hugs dholbach 
* TheMuso agrees with ajmitch :)
<imbrandon> actualy
<dholbach> imbrandon: oh that's an irc proxy
<imbrandon> heh bip + {konversation,xchat,irssi} all the way ;)
<imbrandon> dholbach, yea
<dholbach> imbrandon: hmhmhmhmhm, not sure I want to have that running on that server :-)
<imbrandon> bip connects to irc for you, you client connect to it
<imbrandon> dholbach, you can restrict it by ip and password
<dholbach> I have no fixed IP
<imbrandon> ahh well it would be connected by password only ( as mine is )
<imbrandon> so i can connect to it form any computer
<dholbach> I think I prefer a good commandline client :-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<dholbach> hi jinty
<TheMuso> What? Irssi isn't good enough? :)
<imbrandon> well considering my fileserver is only a 333mhz i have to give it /something/ usefull to do ;)
<imbrandon> 333mhz 96mb ram, but is happy with dapper as a file/imap/bip server
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> loud beaste too, i need to replace it someday
<Jozo-> imbrandon: Simple rebuild didn't fix missing dependencies (dh_shlibdeps is commented off). What you success to do? (gnunet)
<imbrandon> maybe when i'm a millionaire ;)
<imbrandon> Jozo-, make only the bare minimum fixes ( eg uncomment it ) and fix the init script, but dont merge the new version, just fix the old one
<Fujitsu> dholbach, shall I just attach debdiffs to the appropriate bug, subscribe motu-uvf, and modify the summary to say SRU?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: sounds cool
<imbrandon> Jozo-, and if you wish when you get done email the debdiff to imbrandon@kubuntu.org and i'll look it over again
<Jozo-> imbrandon: okey
<jinty> hey dholbach!
<sivang> morning
<sivang> jinty: Hey Brian
<jinty> morning sivang
<jinty> sivang: how's the backup program going?
<sivang> jinty: cool, haven't managed to integrate all of your comments, but I'm picking stuff one at a time
<sivang> jinty: recently someone joined me and helps me with some of the efforts as well, which is nice.
<jinty> sivang: did you have a good read of PEP8?
<sivang> jinty: I glimpsed at it, I shall go over it again soon ;)
<jinty> ;)
* ajmitch decides to head off & sleep
<ajmitch> night all
<Q-FUNK> Anybody knows why ubuntu-desktop recommends linux-headers-386 and not linux-headers-386 | linux-headers-generic ?
<Q-FUNK> or hm... actually, depends
<sivang> night ajmitch
<Jozo-> imbrandon: mail sent (Reply to Colin's mail)
<Q-FUNK> how would we feel about requesting a sync on rt2400-source rt2500-source and rt2570-source this late?  they're all in universe and introduce small packaging fixes.
<siretart> Q-FUNK: do we speak about a new upstream release or just new debian revision?
<Q-FUNK> debian
<Q-FUNK> and rt2x00-source
<Q-FUNK> argh. it appears that upstart cannot be used on a host with pinned APT.  it lacks the "Essential: Yes" header in the control file
<Q-FUNK> actually, rt2x00-source is a new upstream, so we can cross it out
<Q-FUNK> the other 3 ae just updated debian packages
<siretart> Q-FUNK: it we would only talk about a new debian revision, I see no problem
<siretart> Q-FUNK: new upstream version tend to introduce a different set of bugs
<Q-FUNK> indeed
<Q-FUNK> alright then, I'll file the sync requests
<Fujitsu> Mistress of the Universe!
<bhale> oh no, Hobbsee
<bhale> and the pointy stick
* Fujitsu mourns the loss of Mithrandir and tseng.
<Hobbsee> greetings
* Hobbsee uses the long pointy stick of doom on Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> :O
* Hobbsee wishes people would just use their normal nicks.
<bhale> do it
<TheMuso> Thats boring.
<wgrant> Peer pressure, Hobbsee!
<bhale> easier to find you, too
<bhale> meh
<dholbach> shobbs, lyelavich, ... ;-)
<bhale> dholbach ...
* bhale hugs dholbach 
<thom> dholbach: it's all your fault :-)
<wgrant> dubgrant!
<thom> (including my hangover on sunday)
<dholbach> thom: at that time a bunch of 'daniel''s were around ;)
<LYelavich> :)
<dholbach> thom: how did you get home?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: :P
<Hobbsee> heh
<thom> dholbach: train to hochstrasse tor, then walked
<dholbach> thom: you won't believe it: after you guys took the u-bahn, I went into another club, talked to the owner and will talk to him on the WE again to play there :-D
<thom> nice!
<thom> good work!
<jdub> STOP SPREADING THIS FASCISM!
<dholbach> thom: yeah :-)
<bhale> jdub: huh?
* jdub spanks dholbach 
* jdub spanks bhale 
<bhale> :(
<jdub> yoink!
<Hobbsee> Fetched 43.0MB in 1m39s (433kB/s)  yay
<TheMuso> ROFL
<dholbach> .... :)
<siretart> wtf?!
<zoopmf> Hi! Can someone tell me what else I can do to get a fixed version of opencv uploaded (I already supplied a debdiff)?
<zoopmf> See: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/opencv/+bug/57585
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57585 in opencv "Lots of warnings when compiling" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<geser> zoopmf: subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug
<zoopmf> geser: I subscribed "MOTU Reviewers Team". Was that the wrong team?
<Fujitsu> zoopmf, yes.
<zoopmf> geser, Fujitsu: I got the info from: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs
* Fujitsu attacks that page.
<zoopmf> "Find a bug, work on it, and attach a debdiff which fixes the bug. Then, assign the bug to the motureviewers team, who will review and upload it."
<zoopmf> If that is wrong it should probably be fixed...
<geser> I usually use the u-u-s team to get debdiffs uploaded, I don't know if motureviewers also work or not
<Hobbsee> geser: both should
<Fujitsu> motureviewers is deprecated.
<zoopmf> OK. Then is there another explanation why nothing's happening or something else I can do?
<Fujitsu> zoopmf, subscribed, not assigned.
<zoopmf> Fujitsu: Should I assign it to nobody then?
<Fujitsu> zoopmf, correct.
<zoopmf> Fujitsu: done
<giskard> hello
<siretart> wow. I love that: "This bug has 4 duplicates"
<Hobbsee> siretart: yes, aka "This bug has x duplicates, where x is a large number.  Someone should really fix this"
* ajmitch wonders which bug has the greatest number of duplicates
<Fujitsu> Ubiquity XFS, perhaps?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: the dapper X breaking after release was pretty impressive
<ajmitch> or the compiz stuff breaking things
<Hobbsee> that too
<Hobbsee> but most of those people havent upgraded to edgy yet, i expect
<Fujitsu> Ooh, impressive.
<Fujitsu> bug #47848
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47848 in ubiquity "should warn at partitioning stage if /boot is on XFS" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47848
<Fujitsu> Timeout error!
<ajmitch> the nvidia root hole has only 8 duplicates so far
<ajmitch> in debian I've had about 6 duplicates for an f-spot bug
<neutrinomass> From what I understand, packages that have failed deps because of $shlibs only need a rebuild to get them sorted, right ?
<ajmitch> neutrinomass: generally yes
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: the X upgrade in dapper - 52 duplicates
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yup :P
<neutrinomass> so if a package has to be rebuilt to fix its deps, is there something I (as a non-MOTU) can do ?
<Fujitsu> Post a debdiff, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.
<neutrinomass> If it just has to be rebuilt (i.e. $shlibs issue) I mean ? (btw, is -sponsors preferred over motureviewers ?)
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-universe-sponsors supersedes motureviewers, yes.
<geser> neutrinomass: you only need to change the version number (-XbuildY except it has an -XubuntuY already) and add a changelog entry
<neutrinomass> geser: If it has an ubuntu version, I don't change that? After that I attach a debidff and subsribe sponsors again ?
<geser> neutrinomass: an upload needs always a new version
<geser> if it has -XubuntuY already the new version is -Xubuntu(Y+1)
<neutrinomass> ok... so what am I supposed to put in the changelog ?
<neutrinomass> ( I know how the version works, but you sort of confused me before :-) )
<geser> state that it is a rebuild only and preferable the reason for the rebuild
<neutrinomass> ok, thanks :)
<tore> hello.  I just uploaded a new version of munin to sid, and it contains a fix that I believe should be synched to ubuntu.  I'm not sure how frozen universe is at this point, but if it is impossible to synch the package entirely, would anyone be interested in sponsoring an upload containing isolated fixes?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jdong_> hey everyone
<pirast> hey jdong_
<lophyte> geser: I can vouch for you if you'd like.. unless you've already got other people :P
<geser> lophyte: thanks for vouching for me
<lophyte> geser: no prob :)
<lophyte> geser: I'm sure you've got it... just that only half the CC is there today :P
<pirast> sivang, any news on the bootstrap of fpc?
<sivang> pirast: none that I've heared of. Ask infinity see what he says
<sivang> (IIRC he said he would do it first thing when he wakes up or something)
<pirast> sivang, k ill do
<sivang> pirast: thanks
<pirast> sivang, seems that is afk.. ill tell you when he writes back
<sivang> pirast: sure, thanks again.
<Le_Vert-Notebook> hello ubuntu devs
<pirast> sivang, no reply yet.. i guess he sleeps again.. possbile that he already bootstrapped and we just have to reupload?
<sivang> pirast: is there any indication that he already bootstrapped it?
<pirast> sivang, no..
<sivang> pirast: so we can just try
<pirast> yeah
<pirast> but i dont have any rights on universe.. sou you'd have to try..
<pirast> (sivang)
<Le_Vert-Notebook> i'd like to become MOTU
<Le_Vert-Notebook> I'm currently maintaining several debian package and I'd like to maintain them in the ubuntu archive
<Le_Vert-Notebook> what's the best way
<Le_Vert-Notebook> do I need some kind of sponsors to upload them or me ?
<geser> you need a sponsor until you are a motu
<Le_Vert-Notebook> is there any one here ? :)
<Le_Vert-Notebook> I have some useful package like filezilla, museek, audacious
<Le_Vert-Notebook> and I'm trying to get a reditribution license for teamspeak
<lionelp> Salut Le_Vert-Notebook :)
<Le_Vert-Notebook> salut lionelp (qui est-tu?)
<lionelp> Actually, Ubuntu is in deep freeze before the release
<Le_Vert-Notebook> okay
<lionelp> adding packages is not possible
<lionelp> you will have to wait that edgy+1 is opened
<Le_Vert-Notebook> if someonge is interrested in sponsoring me
<Le_Vert-Notebook> you can saiy it right now ;)
<Le_Vert-Notebook> but i'll wait, no problem
<pirast> as long as your packages are already in debian ubuntu should autosync them in edgy+1
<lionelp> Le_Vert-Notebook: all packages in Debian are automaticaly included in Ubuntu
<Le_Vert-Notebook> yes but the update are not done
<Le_Vert-Notebook> updates
<Le_Vert-Notebook> I see aircrack-ng is 0.6 in edgy
<Le_Vert-Notebook> and I uploaded 0.6.2 in Debian
<pirast> Le_Vert-Notebook, this is caused by the universe freeze
<pirast> ubuntu freezes the archives before a release so that syncs are not made anymore in order to make sure that everything works.
<Le_Vert-Notebook> okay...
<Le_Vert-Notebook> so my help is not needed at all?
<lionelp> Le_Vert-Notebook: your help is needed :)
<lionelp> all help is welcome :)
<ogra> Le_Vert-Notebook, sure your help is needed :=
<ogra> :)
<Le_Vert-Notebook> i think nobody is more skilled than me for merging and syncing my own packages hehe :)
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats the point :)
<ogra> but ubuntu works a bit different wrt freezes than debian does
<Le_Vert-Notebook> I see
<Le_Vert-Notebook> is there any guide to help debian contributer to contribute to ubuntu
<Le_Vert-Notebook> which summarize the major differences between these two distribs
<ogra> i dont thinnk there is a direct comparison page
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers has some duties listed an ubuntu developer has to do
<ogra> one of the core features of ubuntu vs. debian is that we dont have maintainers ...
<ogra> if you are approved for universe uploads, you can touch *any* package in univberse
<ogra> same for main developers ...
<Le_Vert-Notebook> we have this features two
<Le_Vert-Notebook> it's called a NMU, (not maintainer upload)
<ogra> we dont have NMUs :)
<Le_Vert-Notebook> but it's mostly used only for security fixes or rc bugs fix
<ogra> since we dont have maintainers
<ogra> if you want to build a feature that involved different packages, you can just do yo
<ogra> *so
<Le_Vert-Notebook> okay :)
<ogra> i.e. if i as ltsp developer build stuff for sound support, i'll tweak the ltsp packages, the esound packages and what else is involved in it ... and i dont have to discuss it with an esd maintainer
<Le_Vert-Notebook> I'll make all python-support migrations if you use python-support right now ;)
<ogra> currently we only accept RC fixing uploads ...
<ogra> our release candidate is scheduled for thursday
<Le_Vert-Notebook> so I hope comments are welcome in packaging stuff
<ogra> and release is next thursday
<Le_Vert-Notebook> because it could be hard for someone to modify somehting in the glibc package :p
<ogra> so its unlikely there will be many big changes the next 10 days
<ogra> well, glibc is in main
<ogra> so youd' be a core developer with some edxperience to edit it
<Le_Vert-Notebook> okay
<Le_Vert-Notebook> so i'll just have to wait 10 days
<Le_Vert-Notebook> and come there again to find a sponsor
<ivoks> a bit more
<ivoks> edgy+1 won't get open on that same day
<Le_Vert-Notebook> k
<Le_Vert-Notebook> I'll stay here to see what you discuss about
<Le_Vert-Notebook> I could learn interresting stuff about ubuntu ;)
<ogra> ivoks, actually i heard rumours that it might even open before release
<ivoks> oh, really?
<lionelp> are there rumors about the name ?
<ogra> rumors :)
<ogra> lionelp, yes, indeed there are ...
<ivoks> i'm all ears
<ivoks> :)
<pirast> yeah i'm too :-)
<Le_Vert-Notebook> what's the policy about RC bugs
<Le_Vert-Notebook> are all package with rc not fixed removed from the archive when releasing ?
<ogra> i'm not sure i'm allowed to leak any name decisions already :P
<ivoks> eh :/
<ogra> Le_Vert-Notebook, nope , all RC bugs should be fixed before release ...
<ogra> all others fall under "known issues"
<ivoks> i hope next developer meeting won't be in USA
<Le_Vert-Notebook> okay
<ivoks> i wanted to come, but i've should have apply for visa month ago...
<ivoks> so, no chance to get on time :)
<sivang> ivoks: right, and it's also so expansive to get there ;-)
<ivoks> s/'ve//
<ogra> how odd, you need a visa from croatia ?
<ivoks> for USA, yes
<ogra> evil
<ivoks> we can get in EU without passport, but for USA...
<phanatic> ogra: even EU members need visa to the US (like Hungarians)
<ogra> i can just fill a visa waiver form on the plane
<ivoks> ogra: you should see what we have to fill out
<ivoks> "Do you support Hitler?" is one of the questions...
<phanatic> ivoks: yeah, it's pretty funny...
<sivang> ogra: only form certain countries that are covered by the visa waiver program
<sivang> ivoks: interesting indeed.
<ivoks> my brother went to new jersy two years ago
<ivoks> i looked at those papers... couldn't stop laughing
<ivoks> it was so funny thath it was actually tragic
<ogra> ivoks, insert "isnt he dead?"
<ivoks> ogra: eh... then you wouldn't get visa :)
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> then you have to find someone in USA to guarantee for you
<ivoks> i think it's easier to get out of the prison, than get in USA for some countries
<sivang> ivoks: it's the same from someone coming from .IL, different questions, same restrictions.
<ivoks> heh, yeah... we talked about that
<sivang> ;)
* sivang also hopes it will be in EU somewhere next time
<ivoks> sivang: israel?
<ivoks> or you personaly
<sivang> ivoks: ?
<sivang> sorry, not sure I follow
<ivoks> arghh....
<ivoks> my bad
<ivoks> forgive me, i have feever :)
<sivang> that's okay :)
<sivang> Genrally, when the conf is in EU, I can get there with at most 4 hours flight, no visa, no questions asked, nothing.
<sivang> and can usually stay there for as long as 6 months
<sivang> which is cool
<sivang> err, s/6/3/
<ogra> i think asia is still missing from the conf list
<ogra> as well as africa
<sivang> ogra: which part of asia? :)
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> i'm just guessing wildly
<Toadstool> g'morning
<zul> africa would be cool..kenya would be cooler
<ogra> kenya ? thats not in africa anymore ?
* ogra missed the split 
<zul> ogra: eh?
<ogra> i missed when keya split off from the african continent :)
<ogra> *kenya
<zul> heh..
<ogra> i'd like iceland for a conf once
<sivang> no, the next place for a conf should be "Edinbrough, Scotalnd" !
<sivang> Riddell: ^^
<sivang> then I could put my hands on another pint of belhaven best...oh I'm sick of missing it
<sivang> Riddell: had a bottle of New Castle Brown Ale the other day, nice, reminds a bit the falvor of the belhaven
<Riddell> sivang: come to http://dot.kde.org/1161090032/ then
<sivang> Riddell: where is accomodation going to be for that event?
<Riddell> si	youth hostel
<Riddell> sivang:
<sivang> Riddell: i see
<_MMA_> Hello guys. Can anyone tell me who maintains synfig? The one in Edgy?
<mr_pouit> _MMA_,  Maintainer: Debian Synfig Maintainers <pkg-synfig-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org> :D (directly synced from unstable)
<_MMA_> Thank you.
<_MMA_> Ive been told its broken somehow and would like to get it fixed for +1.
<pirast> night
<tomveens> hello
<tomveens> we are looking for a debootstrap for ubuntu amd64 packaging
<tomveens> what kind of ubuntu we can best take?
<bhale> depends on the ubuntu you are targetting for your package users
<bhale> dapper is the latest stable
<bhale> edgy is in rc
<tomveens> edgy
<tomveens> I just heard we have a good edgy version for debootstrap
<lupine_85> ooh, is edgy an rc now?
<lupine_85> it seems like just yesterday it was knot 3 ;)
<blueyed> Can someone take a look at an "alien" .deb package? It's the one from jEdit and nobody seems to know why it's broken.. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1551924&group_id=588&atid=100588
<Ubugtu> Sourceforge bug 1551924 "deb of devel version does not install" [Pri: 9,Open] 
<tomveens> edgy is already usable:)
<blueyed> tomveens: indeed.. since some weeks already.. :)
<tomveens> has someone experience with a xen driven virtual machine with a bootstrap from ubuntu for packaging over the internet?
<sivang> so, can we still upload unmetdeps fixes and general other fixes to universe?
<sivang> ajmitch: ^^
<ajmitch> sivang: hm?
<ajmitch> you can upload, afaik, just inform/ask us for fixes
<ajmitch> no major changes, stuff that's simple & fixes serious bugs
<StevenK> Or an archive admin asks you to do. :-P
<ajmitch> pretty much
<StevenK> ajmitch: infinity asked me to fix hat to build on sparc a few days ago.
<ajmitch> lucky you
<ajmitch> (sucker)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> You or dholbach will more than likely be asked about it.
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> tomveens: yes, ubuntu is easy to setup with debootstrap & xen
<sivang> StevenK: heh
<ajmitch> you do need the appropriate debootstrap installed
<tomveens> what is the appropriate debootstrap?
<ajmitch> the one for the distro you're installing
<tomveens> I mean, a friend of me is doing this right now here, this is not really my thing, maybe you have tips in doing it some sort of way that can help
<tomveens> from experience
<ajmitch> if you want to setup edgy, get the debootstrap package from edgy
<ajmitch> then it's as simple as xen-create-image --debootstrap --dist edgy --hostname foo
<ajmitch> for example
<lucas> or just get the source debootstrap package, get the "edgy" file in it, put it in /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts, and enjoy
<ajmitch> assuming you're using xen-tools :)
<tomveens> yes we are
<tomveens> he doesn't talk that much now about the progress, he is concentrated, so I do not now what he is doing now in the process
<tomveens> I now he has debootstrap edgy installed, and is trying to run these systems with xen
<ajmitch> it's hard to help someone by proxy
<tomveens> I know:)
<tomveens> Last message is: That the biggest problems are over and it is going to work<End message>
<ajmitch> what are you using as the xen host?
<tomveens> an Amd64(question answered?)
<ajmitch> distro, not hardware
<tomveens> debian
<ChaosFan> wg 43
<tomveens> I just heard that he has replaced the standard xen scripts with his own scripts a few months ago and these he has broken recently, So he says it is not likely anyone can help him fix them
<sivang> ajmitch: is Xen easy as 1-2-3 now
<sivang> ?
<ajmitch> sivang: it's easy enough, will be much easier for edgy+1 (gui tools, etc)
<ajmitch> I can setup a new xen domain in a few minues
<ajmitch> minutes
<sivang> ajmitch: ah, cool
<sivang> ajmitch: already specs pending MTV discussions for the GUI tools?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> already some RH packages that didn't get into edgy
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-18
<chillywilly> lallallala
<Crippy-Boy> hey
<zul> so yeah i need another uvf
<ajmitch> yay
<Nafallo> oh. serverimages for amd64? :-)
<zul> someone please shoot me
<Nafallo> zul: why? you forgot to add serverkernels for amd64 in xen? :-P
<ajmitch> zul: tempting..
<purserj> morning all, can someone tell me if the move to dash for edgy has been accompanied by regression testing of packages (beyond the init scripts)?
<sivang> purserj: you might find more answers in #ubuntu-devel I think
<purserj> thanks
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you awake?
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, ajmitch
<LaserJock> and how is Barry doing today?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yup
<bddebian> LaserJock: Tired man, thanks. You?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: have you installed the latest KDE4 for mac?
<LaserJock> bddebian: same
<imbrandon> LaserJock, not in the last week or so
<LaserJock> imbrandon: the "everything" .dmg is 1.74GB!
<imbrandon> wasup ?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea it got a bit smaller
<imbrandon> ;P
<LaserJock> it was bigger?
<LaserJock> my gosh
<imbrandon> yea about 2.6 to start
<LaserJock> wow, I didn't know there was even that much KDE software in existence
<imbrandon> rember thats dbus kdelibs kdebase kdepimlibs koffice kdeedu kdegames
<LaserJock> does any of the kio stuff work?
<imbrandon> and all the debug and dev files too
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea almost all of it
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> well I'm grabbing it at 300k/s but I just wondered if you had used it recently
<imbrandon> everything "works" basicly , its just alot of polish issues
<imbrandon> like kdeint makes an icon on launch along with the app
<imbrandon> err kded not kdeinit
<imbrandon> and little stuff like that
<ajmitch> is there anything new there yet, or is it mostly the core libs that have been freshened?
<ajmitch> we've heard all about these wonderful plans for plasma, and the related stuff
<imbrandon> ajmitch, mostly just the core, plasma and stuff
<imbrandon> isnt compileble yet
<ajmitch> so plasma exists & is useful now?
<ajmitch> right :)
<imbrandon> well it exists but dosent compile mostly
<LaserJock> imbrandon: do you have any OS X/Ubuntu dual boot machines?
<imbrandon> well i do BUT my osx isnt exactly bootasble atm
<imbrandon> bootable*
<imbrandon> i need to reinstall it
<imbrandon> but i was planning to wait till edgy was released and just doing a fresh install of both
<LaserJock> how is access to the other partition? can you rw on your OS X partition from Ubuntu and the other way around?
<imbrandon> sure, there is hpfs read rwite in linux ( as long as you tuen jjournaling off on the osx partition )
<imbrandon> turn*
<LaserJock> is that ok to do?
<imbrandon> yea i've done it for months , no issues
<imbrandon> that i've noticed
<LaserJock> heh, except you can boot into OSX at the moment ;-)
<imbrandon> well that was my bad, i was messing with the patition tables
<imbrandon> when i tried to move /var to a new hdd
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> and if you want to leave journaling on, you can read it like ntfs
<imbrandon> its just if you want read/write you have to turn off the journal ( kinda like when writing to ext3 from window, works buyt you have to turn off the journal )
<imbrandon> ( and yes i know that efectively makes it ext2 shush )
<TheMuso> imbrandon: How do you turn off the journal?
<imbrandon> its a single command, i would have to google it again ( i do ever time becosue i only use it on reloads lol )
<imbrandon> one sec
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> np I will google it when I need it.
<imbrandon> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107248
<imbrandon> thats for 10.2 but it still works on 10.4
<imbrandon> theres also a way to do it on the command line too but i'm lazy
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> there is an option in disk utility to do it
<LaserJock> doh, I just read one of my own old posts on the forum
<LaserJock> I didn't realize it was me
<LaserJock> I was thinking "what a dope" and then I looked at who wrote it :-)
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> haha
<Toadstool> good evening everybody
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> i got gnash working on my ppc, so i can kinda see flash stuff on the web now
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well flash 7 or lower, but seems to work ok
<imbrandon> still not as nice as adobe flash but i'm thinking if i give out deb's ( and get it in edgy+1 ) more people will use it and bug report/fix it
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> ok, so beta doesn't seem to like my mac
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> why ?
<ajmitch> because macs are evil & wrong
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> well, I go to boot and it doesn't do anything
<LaserJock> just a black screen
<LaserJock> absolutely nothing
<imbrandon> did you try to disable the splash screen? i had some problems with that
<LaserJock> how do I do that in lilo?
<imbrandon> ( turning acpi off helps too on some mac's )
<TheMuso> mac == no acpi
<TheMuso> At east powerpc.
<TheMuso> least
<LaserJock> it worked fine in Dapper
<imbrandon> remove "splash" from the kernel line in lilo.conf afaik
<imbrandon> and add "acpi=off"
<LaserJock> there is no splash
<imbrandon> try to add nosplash
<imbrandon> i havent messed with lilo in ages
<LaserJock> I'm sort of doubting that's it though
<tritium> Hello.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you would be suprised, uspash killed my kdm and lots of stuff
<LaserJock> as normally you at least get a second or two of kernel stuff before usplash kicks in don't you?
<LaserJock> tritium!!
<imbrandon> not really
<tritium> LaserJock: :)
<imbrandon> if you get nothing acpi could be it too, it will cause justa  blinking cursor in the top left ( or did on my hp )
<LaserJock> I don't even have that
<imbrandon> ...
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: you having any luck with gnash?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea actualy i made soem debs last nigth
<imbrandon> and i got it installed on my ppc
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: got a link?
<Burgundavia> you may have told me last night
<imbrandon> sure what arech
<imbrandon> arch* i'll have to build it again realfast
<Burgundavia> x86
<imbrandon> k one sec
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what sites does it work with?
<ajmitch> most?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, most , fonts are a little funny
<imbrandon> but it "works"
<Burgundavia> the question of course is: "Does it work with Youtube"?
<imbrandon> actualy yea , that was the first place i tried
<imbrandon> heh
<Burgundavia> that is a 1.0 release blocker right there
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> youtube and googlevideo both
* ajmitch has no flash on amd64, so anything > nothing
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: think we can ship it edgy+1?
<imbrandon> one sec, let me upload it ( you'll have to rebuild for anything other than x86 as my ppc isnt dont compiling it yet
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, yup thats my plan for pacaging it
<imbrandon> packaging it*
<Burgundavia> right
<imbrandon> gah anyhow one sec
<imbrandon> sudo mount /media/enterprise
<imbrandon> oops
<imbrandon> ok uploading now, it still has some packin issues and not ready for the public but good enough for you and ajmitch to test
<imbrandon> so in other words dont mention the url "publicly" just yet please hehe
<imbrandon> e.g the copyrights and stuff are all still placeholders etc etc etc
<imbrandon> just to get it "working" then i was gonna clean all that up tonight
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: no worries
<Burgundavia> I am a little concerned about gnash and its choices of technology
<Burgundavia> are they all in main?
<imbrandon> umm afaik, mostly just gstreamer ( and plugins ) and libmad
<imbrandon> are the only real deps
<Burgundavia> does gnash use gstreamer?
<Burgundavia> I thought it used sdl
<imbrandon> it can, it uses sdl or gst , i compiled it with gst0.10
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<imbrandon> it has lots of configure options
<Burgundavia> and the other issue is it being gpl
<Burgundavia> are their licensing issues with gpl plugins in firefox?
<imbrandon> not that i'm aware, but i havent looked into it
<Burgundavia> I think we (and DEbian) accept FF under the GPL
<imbrandon> here is my build deps
<imbrandon> Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 5.0.0), libgtkglext1-dev, libboost-dev, libgstreamer0.10-dev,
<imbrandon> libgl1-mesa-dev, libpng12-dev, libjpeg62-dev, libmad0-dev
<imbrandon> just fyi
<Burgundavia> however, gnash as a gstreamer plugin is more problematic
<Burgundavia> libmad is a an issue
<imbrandon> i havent looked but i think all those are in main
<imbrandon> it dosent REQUIRE libmad, only if you want mp3 decoding
<imbrandon> eg i compiled with --with-mp3-decoder=mad
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/libs/libmad0
<imbrandon> its in main
<imbrandon>    libmad0 | 0.15.1b-2.1 | http://192.168.1.5 edgy/main Packages
<Burgundavia> but it decodes mp3s...
* Burgundavia is terribly confused
<imbrandon> so does xmms, aparently not all mp3 decoding is wrong ( eg gst can to with fluendo )
<Burgundavia> ok, what does mad do?
<Burgundavia> why do we need to install lame to get mp3 playback?
<Burgundavia> ah, it doesn't actually do mp3
<crimsun> (no, xmms and libmad are not supposed to be in main still. I suspect they remain for legacy reasons [or someone employed by Canonical wishing them to remain] )
<Burgundavia> It currently only supports the MPEG 1 standard
<Burgundavia> from the package description
<crimsun> currently the fluendo GSt plugin is the only "legal" one
<Burgundavia> crimsun: you builds your distro, you gets your stuff in main
<imbrandon> anyhow we can build without it ( gnash ) thats not an issue , i just choose to test it this way , its only plem package for us MOTU's to test etc
<Burgundavia> does flash usually embed mp3s?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, most do
<crimsun> quite often.
<imbrandon> thats the prefered flash format
<Burgundavia> ah, fun
<Burgundavia> so even though we have a free flash player, it will still be crippled
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, ok here is what i have so far ( "works" on my ppc ) http://www.imbrandon.com/packages/pool/edgy/gnash/ as i said though work in progress and feedback welcome
<imbrandon> the copyright and stuff like that is obviously wrong etc
<Burgundavia> yep
<imbrandon> also note that is version 0.7.2 and it /should/ be 0.7.1+svn20061016 but i was too lazy to change it before i uploaded
<Burgundavia> right
<imbrandon> i'll change that later
<Burgundavia> are they not about to release 7.2?
<imbrandon> not sure when , but the cvs is active as in a commit every few hours the last week(s)
<imbrandon> so looks promising
<imbrandon> it says it will play every flash 7 or below well and /some/ flash 8 stuff
<imbrandon> so /should/ play most files
<Burgundavia> begone foul macromedia crap
<imbrandon> i only tried a few simple flash games and youtube
<imbrandon> fonts are a bit ugly as i said but it "works"
<Burgundavia> hmm, youtube is giving me the "install flash" error
<imbrandon> and suprisingly no crashes, even on stuff that dident work ( like nelly.net )
<Burgundavia> tmp/buildd/.firefox/plugins/libgnashplugin.so
<Burgundavia> umm...
<imbrandon> ahh crap, my bad, i have that fixed just not rebuilt
<imbrandon> move that so to you firefox plugins dir
<imbrandon> and it will work
<imbrandon> ( after firefox restart )
<Burgundavia> where is the ff dir?
<imbrandon>  /usr/lib/firefox/plugins iirc
<imbrandon> yea  ^^
<Burgundavia> well, I just had a crash
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> hrm what site?
<Burgundavia> youtube
<Burgundavia> the only flash site worth going to
<Burgundavia> I am getting a flash, then a grey box now
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, should be something like this http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss_gnash1.png
<Burgundavia> ya, no
<Burgundavia> lots of grey boxes
<imbrandon> hrm
<Burgundavia> at least gnash is out of process so it doesn't haul down my entire browser as well
<crimsun> there's an environment variable you need to pass to firefox if you're using the composite extension
<imbrandon> ajmitch, can you grab the dsc from that url and build to see if you get the same thing ?
<Burgundavia> crimsun: comp extension?
<imbrandon> crimsun, comp ext ?
<imbrandon> from gtkext ?
<crimsun> well how dandy, LP is down so I can't locate the bug #
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> you mean from libgtkglext1-dev ? hum in kde i dont
<imbrandon> as i just took that screen shot just now but that dont mean its correct heh
<imbrandon> yea but all in all it does look like something for edgy+1 but its rough
<imbrandon> thats for sure
<imbrandon> honestly i'm suprised no one has packaged it yet
<imbrandon> would go along way to people using it and reporting bugs
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> do they have a proper bug tracker?
<imbrandon> https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=gnash
<Burgundavia> crimsun: what sort of env variable? don't remember off hand?
<crimsun> skip arb visual or something
<crimsun> it's in the flashplugin-nonfree bug reports
<Burgundavia> ah
<crimsun> I'm sure someone has blogged about it, but I don't remember the precise env var
<imbrandon> forums probably have it too
<imbrandon> somewhere
<imbrandon> i cant beleave i just said that
<imbrandon> lol
<Burgundavia> is it gnash specific?
<ajmitch> no, xlib-specific I think
<imbrandon> probabbly not if it effects flashplugin-nonfree too
<imbrandon> i wonder if the adobe guys are gonna make a ppc and amd64 version of 9
<imbrandon> i mean they will certainly make a win64 and a osx version so i dont see an issue but who knows
<ajmitch> I hope they do
<Burgundavia> if I were Adobe I probably wouldn't
<Burgundavia> tbh
<imbrandon> flash and mp3's are our biggest issues
<Burgundavia> more QA headache for little gain
<imbrandon> well bigests as in problematic from a new user perspective of every day user
<imbrandon> there are bigger fish , i know heh
<Burgundavia> yes
<imbrandon> i bet the PR from releasing flashplayer source gpl would make Macromedia Flash MX salse go up
<imbrandon> but then again maybe not
<Burgundavia> answered teh phone 5 times in the past 30 minutes. Not once was it for me
<Burgundavia> bloody roommates
* nixternal prays to the launchpad gods to bringer her back up..i need to push da#$@)$*#
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, hehe
<nixternal> imbrandon: nice blog post there ;)
<nixternal> hey, did you get my notice earlier with that comic link?
<imbrandon> nixternal, yea i thought it was a bit funny
<imbrandon> and yea i saw the comic link
<nixternal> me too, but i wasn't going to post about that one
<nixternal> the comic that is
<imbrandon> heh i thought it was in bad tatse but to each their own ;)
<imbrandon> taste*
<nixternal> just another jealous gentoo user im sure
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> damn
<nixternal> YAJGU Comic
<nixternal> that is the blog post there
<Burgundavia> crimsun: was the env variable to do with locale?
<imbrandon> ajmitch / crimsun if you have time tonight to poke that gnash i just uploaded , i'll clean it up a bit and make a blog post and see if we can get some more intrest going
<imbrandon> ajmitch, specialy since you have no flash-nonfree installed so you "know" its purly gnash
<crimsun> Burgundavia: no SKIP_ARB_VISUALS=1 or something
<imbrandon> purely
<crimsun> imbrandon: I probably won't have time, sorry. Trying to finish up vlc prior to 6.10 RC.
<imbrandon> crimsun, no worries
<imbrandon> yea thats more important right now
<LaserJock> wahoo
<ajmitch> LaserJock: wahoo?
<LaserJock> I got it
<LaserJock> I was able to add a nosplash to lilo
<LaserJock> and it booted
<imbrandon> hrm /me looks puzzled, if it is installing it via cdbs in tmp/buildd/.firefox/.... shouldent it find it in debian/gnash/.firefox/plugins/libgnashplugin.so  ?
<ajmitch> ah, I see
<LaserJock> the weird thing is, it booted with the splash ?!?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: probably not
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hehe told ya , it dosent seem like it should affect it but it does
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hum why not, i guess i'm mis understanding something then
<ajmitch> just a min
<ajmitch> trying to figure out what to do about UDS stuff
<LaserJock> now if I can just get the ATI drivers
<imbrandon> thats the only fix that gets misplaced durring make install so i thought "mv debian/gnash/.firefox/plugins/libgnashplugin.so debian/gnash/usr/lib/firefox/plugins/" would work in the binary-install target
<imbrandon> okies
<imbrandon> s/fix/file
<imbrandon> LaserJock, is it a moble ati ?
<imbrandon> ( e.g. notebook or some mac mini's )
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<imbrandon> kk nvm then
<LaserJock> iMac
<imbrandon> yea imac should be full fledged card
<imbrandon> iirc
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> i just know my moble ati card in the ibook cant use flrgx or w/e it is
<imbrandon> it has to use the OSS driver
<imbrandon> was gonna make sure you checked first hehe
<imbrandon> it took me half a day before i decided to look at the supported cards lol
<ajmitch> anyone want to donate some money for a worthy cause? ;)
<Hobbsee> hah
<imbrandon> i really wish i had some , i would bro
<Hobbsee> really worthy, i'll bet
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: of course it is
<crimsun> I thought you were invited, ajmitch
<ajmitch> you ever doubt me?
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> have to sort out hotel stuff
<Hobbsee> ahh
<imbrandon> ajmitch, you got the flight stuff covered?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: barely
<chillywilly> bah
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nice, thats good atleaste, i would say you could bunk in my hotel room but i dont know whom else i'll be in the hotel with or what the policys etc are
<Burgundavia> http://lwn.net/Articles/204758/
<Burgundavia> hmm, good comment
<imbrandon> ajmitch, if you care to poke, i wouldent mind having a 3rd in the room
<imbrandon> not even sure whom to poke tbh
<imbrandon> crimsun, btw i forgot to mention if you need a guiney pig for something i can test vlc as i use that as my primary player on my lappy
<imbrandon> that is if you need soemthing etc etc etc
<crimsun> I'm working my way through a merge of the newest from Sid
<imbrandon> nice
<crimsun> I hate that I can't test if it will FTBFS just like the current Edgy source package (due to translations)
<imbrandon> translations make it FTB ? wow
<crimsun> pbuilds/sbuilds fine locally. Dies on the buildd.
<imbrandon> yea i hate when that happens, usaly its a auto{conf,build} thing for me when it does
* imbrandon kicks old kde apps
<siretart> morning
<siretart> ajmitch: any idea why motu-uvf is assigned with bug #43150? I see nothing to do for edgy
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in gcl "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<minghua> siretart: I believe that's for "universe stable release update team"
<minghua> siretart: and since when it's formed it's likely going to be the people in motu-uvf anyway... :-)
<LaserJock> siretart: dholbach said to subscribe motu-uvf to it
<siretart> ah, ok
<LaserJock> we need a gcl update and rebuild of maxima
<siretart> I didn't notice that we already agreed on how to do stable updates
<LaserJock> we didn't
<LaserJock> that's why it's subscribed to motu-uvf instead of a motu-sru
<LaserJock> or similar
<siretart> ah, as interim "solution". ok
<crimsun> imbrandon: will you be around for another 20 minutes or so?
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> crimsun, yea
<crimsun> imbrandon: if you don't mind, will you test merged vlc/amd64 debs?
<superm1> crimsun, I can take a look if you need a set of eyes on an amd64 box.  i've got one here
<superm1> just give me a link to the source, and i'll build and test it
<crimsun> superm1: it's currently pbuilding/sbuilding
<superm1> Ok.  Well then when binaries are ready, i'll be glad to take a look
<crimsun> 2 minutes.
<imbrandon> crimsun, sorry was having some irc server issues, but yea i'll be arround
<imbrandon> and would be happy to test
<crimsun> -> cleaning the build env
<crimsun> imbrandon: / superm1: http://adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/
<imbrandon> grabbing now
<crimsun> thanks
<superm1> i can test the player, but cant mozilla plugin for it.  installing...
<superm1> yup its working for me.  installs clean, and playing back okay with some xvid/ac3 files as well as mpeg2/ac3 and mpeg2/mp2 files.
<superm1> anything in particular that has changed that will be iffy functionality wise?
<imbrandon> yup every thing seems fine here too
<imbrandon> playing all my media
<superm1> i dont have any x264 files to check that since it looks like it was in the changelog though.
<crimsun> please test a dvd
<crimsun> I doubt that has been fixed, but feel free to try
<imbrandon> a commercial one ?
<crimsun> yes
* imbrandon looks for one
<imbrandon> one sec
<crimsun> there are dupes where it will crash on amd64
<superm1> oh that will take a few minutes to find ;)
<crimsun> (not much we can do about it presently, however)
<crimsun> (same for the keyboard shortcuts)
* imbrandon found a farscape dvd , one sec
<superm1> resevoir dogs here. and its struglling
<crimsun> I'm not entirely convinced it's vlc's fault.
<superm1> let me throw it thru xine then and make sure that libdvdcss2 isnt yelling at me then
<crimsun> I have libdvdcss2 1.2.9-1 installed (locally compiled)
<superm1> i'm running 1.2.5-1 locally compiled here.
<superm1> Oh it definately segfaulted on the dvd.   xine played it fine
<crimsun> ok, good.
<imbrandon> oh wow segfaults
<imbrandon> yea here too
<crimsun> well, not really good per se, but no regression.
<superm1> haha
<imbrandon> it tried to play, sorta
<imbrandon> then segfaults
<crimsun> -rw-r--r--  1 crimsun crimsun  15M 2006-10-18 01:46 vlc_0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<crimsun> checkout that monster.
<imbrandon> wow
<superm1> thats huge.
<superm1> that many changes in svn since the last release, huh?
<crimsun> that's essentially two entire new upstream snapshots rolled in as dpatches
<imbrandon> wow
<crimsun> so to kill the FTBFS, I'm just going to file an UVFe.
<crimsun> imbrandon: / superm1: hang for 5 mins, please; I'll grab a LP bug# for you guys to affirm
<superm1> k
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> heh now i wanan watch my farscape peacekeepers dvd
<ajmitch> hi siretart - I see the other explained it
<ajmitch> I didn't know about it either :)
<siretart> ajmitch: yes :)
<superm1> siretart, the other day you mentioned that the change from bin/sh to bin/bash in mythplugins would be good until we got a upstream revision that fixed the problem properly?  I spoke with marrillat and he released a cleaned up package this morning that i merged to earlier: bug 66564
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66564 in mythplugins "Mythweb doesn't set permissions correctly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66564
<ajmitch> heh, linus is so diplomatic...
<ajmitch> "You must be doing something wrong. Is it just that people want to pee in
<ajmitch> the snow and leave their mark?"
<ajmitch> talking on the bzr mailing list
<imbrandon> lol
<lifeless> ajmitch: there are much more choice comments from him
<lifeless> it gives me hope that bzr will win, simply through offending our users less
<Burgundavia> hmm, linus calls confusing "expressive"
<Burgundavia> I liked that
<ajmitch> lifeless: yes, just reading through the VCS comparison thread now
<siretart> superm1: cool. good work
<siretart> superm1: are these changes critical for edgy?
<superm1> i wouldnt say the entire patch is critical for edgy, but it would be nice to have at least the mythweb part of the patch put in
<superm1> makes for a *much* cleaner mythweb install
<siretart> ajmitch: could you please have a look at bug #62751
<siretart> bug 62751
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62751 in usplash "Upstart doesn't activate luks volumes in cryptsetup" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62751
<superm1> at least in my vmware virtual machine
<ajmitch> ok
<siretart> ajmitch: I'd like to hear your opinion if you think we should upload Scotts openvt patch. works for me and others, at least
<siretart> but I think I'm a bit biased, so I'ld like to hear a neutral opinion
<ajmitch> siretart: having the password show is worrying still
<siretart> ajmitch: removing 'splash' fixes this
<ajmitch> siretart: though being able to enter the password at all is critical
<ajmitch> I'd upload & document the splash issue
<ajmitch> otherwise people who upgrade from dapper will have big problems
<siretart> oh yes
<siretart> I have a quite angry collegue about this
<siretart> I'd perhaps implement a solution which would fetch the key from an usb stick or something
* ajmitch never got round to encrypting his partitions
<imbrandon> yea i alwasy wondered how i could essentialy "lock" my computer not to work without a usb key
<imbrandon> maybe sometime i'll find the time to google it
<ajmitch> one way is to boot from USB
<imbrandon> ahh yea that would be the easy solutiuon, but i dont think my iBook supports that
<imbrandon> firewire, but i dont think usb
<imbrandon> could probably put /boot on the usb stick though and grub on the hda and essentialy be the same thing
<siretart> ajmitch: start with crypting swap. thats easy, just take /dev/random as key
<siretart> imbrandon: you need to place a script in your initramfs, which tries to mount your stick, and fetches the key from there
<siretart> imbrandon: it is on my todo list, I'll blog an howto for that when I finished that ;)
<imbrandon> as long as the initram could mount the usb stick
<siretart> thats the other solution
<siretart> again another solution propagated by many debian developers is to put everything but /boot on an LVM in a crypted PV
<imbrandon> although without encrypting it like siretart said you would be able tyo boot from a cdrom
<ajmitch> siretart: I have swap encrypted
<siretart> ajmitch: :)
<ajmitch> I didn't have time to move everything else :)
<imbrandon> hrm i'll be doing a reinstall before mtv , i might try ti
<ajmitch> so it was more an experiment that never went anywhere :)
<imbrandon> why encrypt swap?
<ajmitch> because all sorts of interesting stuff gets swapped out
<imbrandon> how much of a preformace hit will this be to my poor old lappy
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> shouldn't be much
* imbrandon is getting paranoid now
<ajmitch> disk is generally much slower than CPU
<siretart> imbrandon: how paranoid are  you with having your gpg passphrase written out in plaintext to your hard drive?
<imbrandon> siretart, WHA !?!
<siretart> imbrandon: well, if those pages get swapped out (e.g. because of hibernating), this is what happens
<imbrandon> oh jez
<minghua> imbrandon: that's how it's written when gpg's memory gets swapped out
* imbrandon serouisly looks into doing this soon on the lappy
<ajmitch> of course you can't actually hibernate with encrypted swap :)
<siretart> hrhr
<crimsun> superm1: / imbrandon: please affirm successful install and execution on bug 66686 , thanks.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66686 in vlc "[Edgy UVF exception request]  vlc_0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66686
<imbrandon> i never hybernate or suspend anyhow but still
<imbrandon> crimsun, done
<superm1> done
<dholbach> good morning
<siretart> heyheyhey, dholbach!
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hey siretart, hey imbrandon
<dholbach> HAPPY HUG DAY!
<ajmitch> daniel!!
<dholbach> ANDREW!"
<imbrandon> imbra..... oh wait , i'm supose to say someone elses name :/
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> looks like there is a full howto on the forums siretart for breezy, shouldent be hard to subsitute for edgy i would assume
* ajmitch hugs dholbach 
<imbrandon> hrm i think i'm gonna reinstall my lappy and do this
<imbrandon> now that you all have me paranoid
<imbrandon> lol
* dholbach hugs ajmitch
<ajmitch> dholbach: ready to rock the world?
<superm1> imbrandon, at least your not as paranoid as i was about my wireless.  I went crazy and wiped my motorola firmware from my router.  i through openwrt on there  I installed openvpn, and signed all of my keys against cacert.org.  I then had the router drop all packets that weren't intended for that router on the non-standard port I had openvpn running on :)
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> ajmitch: getting ready :)
<superm1> but this encrypting partitions stuff has me thinking....... I wanted to ditch reiserfs anyhow....
<superm1> i'll have to watch for how well your luck goes with it
<imbrandon> yea i had no idea about the swap thing, thats scarry to me ( esp how important my gpg info is to me )
<superm1> well thinkabout if you pipe /dev/mem into strings.  you know how much useful info you can get from that.  then think about how often your swap is substituted for memory.  really can be scary
<imbrandon> hrm atleaste swap should be done ootb imho
<imbrandon> maybe for edgy+1
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> as we said, it breaks hibernation
<ajmitch> too many people want that
<imbrandon> ahh true
<imbrandon> wont stop me though
* ajmitch should try & convert his system before heading away
<imbrandon> i'm doing the swap now and will likely reinstall everything in te next 24 hours
<imbrandon> i been meaning to do it anyhow as my partitons are all too small
<ajmitch> I'll probably just move all the data off, setup encrypted volumes, move it back on
<minghua> well, my feeling is that if someone gets his hands on my laptop swap I am screwed already, so I don't bother that
<imbrandon> minghua, probably but i dont like the idea anyway
* ajmitch has enough free space on the desktop to move everything off
<imbrandon> i'm just doing my swap as a "test" and going to just backup my /home and format everything
<imbrandon> i need to take osx off here before mtv anyhow so i have some extra space
<imbrandon> i never use it anymore anyhow
<minghua> imbrandon: nothing wrong with you.  it's never paranoid enough when it comes to security
<imbrandon> sides if i do it now and there are any bugs i have time to work the kinks out before i'm on the road
<minghua> I am just lazy
<imbrandon> minghua, true heh
<imbrandon> anytime i head "plain text" and pasword i get all itchy
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> 'specialy gpg password
<Fujitsu> What's all this rioting?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it'll still be insecure
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well yea but far less
<imbrandon> heh just buy more ram and no swap
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> plus just the "cool" factor of a usb stick needed to boot the lappy is nice in of itself
<crimsun> imbrandon: / superm1: thanks
<imbrandon> but that just made it a bit more urgent
<imbrandon> crimsun, np
<superm1> np crimsun
<imbrandon> crimsun, lemme know if you need anything else
<Fujitsu> But the `Oh $#&# the USB key just died factor is a bit of a turn-off :P
<Fujitsu> *died'
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, backups ;)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, still...
<imbrandon> image the usbstick and encrypt it offsite
<minghua> encrypt with what?
<imbrandon> minghua, tbd heh
<imbrandon> or just image it and put ina safety deposit box
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> you can ask someone else to encrypt it for you - just like leave your backup key to your neighbor :-)
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> thats all bordering on nsa security heh
<imbrandon> or use a second signed key
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> very stuttery logout sound
<ajmitch> I believe that's been disabled now anyway...
<superm1> i think that the image in a safety deposit box is the best bet.  if someone really wants your data bad enough to go through the trouble of breaking into a bank to get your safety deposit box, and figuring out that you have an image in there- you might as well make it worth their trouble
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> superm1, if they figure that much out, you've probably got more to worry about than your data.
<minghua> but he still doesn't have the passphrase!
<superm1> lol
<imbrandon> hahah if they break into the bank to steal your image i image getting your passphrase has already been done
* ajmitch feels a great sense of wrongness
<minghua> Hmm, makes sense
<ajmitch> I just booted windows XP :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, blasphmey !?!
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, you evil evil thing.
<ajmitch> you'll live
* Fujitsu vanquishes ajmitch by stabbing him with shards of a Dapper CD.
<imbrandon> see if you can checkinstall msoffice in cygwin while your there, will make a good blog post
<Fujitsu> The only way to destroy a Windows user.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes!
<imbrandon> i actualy thought about setting up a co-linux edgy / xp box  on the amd64
<imbrandon> just havent found the time
<imbrandon> nor motavation
<Fujitsu> Ah good, I've still got a shard of CD left >:-)
<imbrandon> hum isnt swap supose to showup on `mount'
<ajmitch> no
<imbrandon> i dont think my swapspace has been activating heh
<ajmitch> actually it should, I think
<superm1> free -m will show it there
<Lathiat> doesnt here
<Lathiat> cat /proc/swaps does
<ajmitch> did you change /etc/fstab to point to the new volume?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well i was going too but it wasent in there, thats what got me thinking it waswent mounting on boot
<imbrandon> heh i have a /dev/hda5 swap but nothing in fstab
<imbrandon> for hda5
<imbrandon> but  cat /proc/swaps shows it soooo /me is a tad confused
<minghua> I don't think swap is shown in mount output
* ajmitch had better not lose his passport
<imbrandon> no that would not be good
<imbrandon> hum this isnt supported form the installer?
<imbrandon> from*
<imbrandon> e.g. i have to make a temp install and do all this stuff then move it ?
<imbrandon> and use the temp install space as swap
<ajmitch> probably\
<ajmitch> at best the alternate installer may support it
<ajmitch> I know debian's installer does now
<imbrandon> hrm , i hope the daily images are good, i think i'm gonna grab an alternate and try this
* imbrandon groans
<imbrandon> someone has already digg'd that 6.10 is released :(
<imbrandon> http://my.opera.com/Camus/blog/2006/10/17/ubuntu-6-10-is-here
<sivang> morning
<ajmitch> hi siretart :)
<thom> ajmitch: have you played with selinux on edgy?
<siretart> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> yes
<thom> ajmitch: any hints - installing selinux-policy-default from universe just bombed bitching about selinuxfs
<ajmitch> you'll run into real issues on edgy due to the change to upstart, which won't load the policy
<ajmitch> I've got a mostly-baked patch to it to do that
<thom> i've not got upstart installed
<ajmitch> ideally you'd use that, newer libselinux, libsepol, checkpolicy, etc along with the modular reference policy from debian
<thom> right
<thom> tried that; it ran for approx 12 hours ttrying to relabel
<thom> (in vmware this is)
<ajmitch> that's quite awhile, not overly surprising for the first time relabelling in vmware
<thom> you'd expect it to run that long on a 400MB image?
<ajmitch> hm, I think keybuk disabled the selinux patch in sysvinit at some point
<ajmitch> for something that small, no
<thom> if that lasted till edgy i'm going to punch him in the face at UDS
<ajmitch> I'd expect it to take much less than an hour on my laptop with 70GB of stuff
<ajmitch> you need selinux support in?
<ajmitch> I think it was turned off because the patch was noisy by default, and then we moved to upstart
<thom> i don't have a key here otherwise i'd upload it with it turned back on
<ajmitch> we have both people who like selinux & people who hate it in the team
<thom> no, it looks like it got turned back on during the edgy merges
<ajmitch> so it'd be a fight to get it in by default at any point
<thom> no no
<ivoks> thom: you use selinux?
<thom> it's just a case of convincing mark it's shiny
<ajmitch> heh
<thom> ivoks: looking into it for work
<ajmitch> we need to borrow some of the nice shiny UI from fedora then
<thom> well, that shouldn't be a challenge
<thom> fedora theft is well established
<ajmitch> maybe mix in some compositing effects
<ajmitch> & we have a winner
<thom> heh
<ivoks> i tried once
<ivoks> on rh
<ivoks> once and never again
<thom> well, my choices are get selinux working or run openbsd
<ajmitch> ouch
<thom> and, frankly, i'm willing to put up with near infinite amounts of pain to avoid openbsd
<ajmitch> at the moment, debian is a better choice over edgy
<ajmitch> since I didn't have the time when it counted to get things updated for edgy
<thom> yeah, which is somewhat irritating
<thom> since everything else is either ubuntu or solaris
<ajmitch> it's mainly going to be a matter of pulling the right packages in & integrating them
<ajmitch> partly why I want xen to play with as well
<thom> nod
<ajmitch> are you going to MV next month?
<thom> yes
* dholbach hugs thom
<ajmitch> I see you were down for everything I'm interested in
<ajmitch> so you tried the reference policy & it was the one taking a long time to relabel?
<thom> yep
<thom> and yes, it looks like we have pretty similar interests at this point
* ajmitch doesn't know why relabelling would take that long then
<thom> i might try it on a real machine in a minute
<StevenK> dholbach: Ping.
<ajmitch> hi StevenK
* StevenK waves
<Chandan> Hi
<Chandan> Fujitsu, what will be the build system you will be using for compiling packages
<Fujitsu> Chandan, what do you mean by build system?
<Chandan> Fujitsu, Host system ..(Os its version) ..where you will be building the package
<Fujitsu> Why does this matter?
<Chandan> Fujitsu, Means .. a package for dapper is compiled on dapper itself or what
<Fujitsu> A package for Dapper is built on the appropriate architecture using Dapper, etc.
<dholbach> StevenK: pong
<Gloubiboulga> Chandan, the host system does not need to be dapper, you can build a package for dapper on edgy or sid
<Chandan> Fujitsu, Because If I build a package over dapper and if I try to install that over breezy ..dependency problem is coming ..So the base system should be the same release of the distro
<Gloubiboulga> you just have to use a chroot
<StevenK> dholbach: galago-gtk-python also needs a rebuild upload for the new libgalago SOVER. Can I go ahead?
<Chandan> Gloubiboulga, Can I build a package for dapper in breezy
<Gloubiboulga> Chandan, yes
<Gloubiboulga> Chandan, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<dholbach> StevenK: sure
<StevenK> dholbach: Uploaded. Thanks.
<Chandan> Gloubiboulga, How , dapper package needs higher version libraries or build-depends which are not in breezy .. right ..How do I compile then
<thom> ajmitch: i'm tempted to suggest an ubuntu-se-server short-term pico distribution
<Gloubiboulga> Chandan, that's why you need to create a dapper chroot on your breezy system
<Chandan> Gloubiboulga, If I do that wont it affect my breezy systemm..Wont it upgrade my breezy system
<Gloubiboulga> Chandan, no
<ajmitch> thom: I'd hope it'd be quite short-lived only because we get stuff into edgy+1 asap
<ajmitch> thom: most of the problem with selinux in ubuntu has been lack of interest & time
<Chandan> Gloubiboulga, How do I create dapper chroot
<thom> yup
<Gloubiboulga> Chandan, have a look at the link I gave you, and at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<Gloubiboulga> everything is clearly explained
* jsgotangco gives ajmitch his support
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: kind of you, really
<Chandan> Gloubiboulga, ok
<thom> ajmitch: well, my point is that we do a pico distribution, integrate it and test it and turn it on by default during edgy+1, then we can merge that back to -server in edgy+2
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: its surprising since selinux seems to solidify a distros position in the business environment
<ajmitch> thom: sounds workable - I should be at MV to discuss it as well
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: it's not shiny
<thom> ace
<bhale> jsgotangco: im not sure about that
<bhale> redhat only gets away with turning it on for business because they have a braindead policy
<ajmitch> hello bhale
<jsgotangco> bhale: it the most general term, not so much thinking on the technical aspect that is
<bhale> novell admits that its so hard to configure that it wasnt worth their time to fark with
<bhale> jsgotangco: you're wrong :)
* bhale hugs jerome
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco hugs bhale
<thom> bhale: but how much of that is justification for novell not using it, and how much is truth
<bhale> thom: its 100% truth
<bhale> but
<bhale> they could have built a learning mode (some work already there) on top of selinux instead of starting over
<thom> nod
<thom> it seems like targetted is actually a pretty good compromise
<bhale> I agree
<bhale> same for selective deployment of SSP and PIE
<bhale> NX
<thom> yup
<bhale> I used to be further in the all or nothing camp
<thom> there's a lot than can be done incrementally
<bhale> doesnt work in the real world
<thom> although it seems like SSP has worked out pretty well in edgy thusfar
<bhale> yeah, good thing
<bhale> I was worried about it
<bhale> breaking all over causing us to drop it across the board
<thom> yeah
<StevenK> Pretty much everything is built with SSP in Edgy, right?
<thom> seems like PIE is pretty sane too, so it might be worth pushing that soon
<thom> StevenK: pretty much
<bhale> PIE is tough
<ajmitch> StevenK: pretty much anything uploaded since it was turned on in june/july
<bhale> there is alot of ASM out there that uses the same register as PIE
<bhale> ASM is hard to fix
<bhale> %ebx register
<ajmitch> right, time for me to sleep
<ajmitch> night all
<slomo> bhale: with PIE one register is reserved all the time for PIE? sounds like this could result in a bad performance loss on x86 where registers are rare anyway...
<thom> bhale: ebx is also what PIC uses though, right? so i'd think that many things that are PIC safe are PIE safe
<Chandan> imbrandon, hi
<thom> (cos you can just do the copy&restore trick)
<Chandan> imbrandon, Yesterday I was discussing about package compilation and adding our own version to that
<Chandan> Fujitsu, I have a doubt on adding our own version for the package .. Which I was discuswsing yesterday
<Fujitsu> -sigh-
<Fujitsu> What about it, Chandan?
<Chandan> Fujitsu, Ubuntu will be syncing with debian , right
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Chandan> Suppose Debian has libc6-2.3.6-1 package
<Chandan> and you are taking that and recompiling and making it ubuntu version by adding libc6-2.3.6-1ubuntu1
<Fujitsu> libc_2.3.6-1ubuntu1, it'd be, but yes.
<Chandan> then if I see"apt-cache redepends libc6" , it shows whole list of pacakges which are dendependent on libc6
<Fujitsu> Yes...
<azeem> Chandan: that is expected
<Chandan> So , If I try to install any of those packages over libc6-2.3.6-1ubuntu1, will that package installs properly
<Chandan> Fujitsu, as the other packages needs libc6 version of 2.3.6-1 , which is debian version
<Fujitsu> Do they explicitly depend on 2.3.6-1?
<Chandan> Fujitsu, if it is >= it is installing , some packages which need exact match 2.3.6-1 , they are not installing
<Chandan> What do I do for this
<Fujitsu> Then you need to rebuild the packages that require exactly 2.3.6-1
<Fujitsu> I believe we've been through this before, multiple times.
<Chandan> How do I finf the pacakges which need exact match from that whole list of pacakges
<azeem> Chandan: grep-dctrl
<Chandan> azeem, what this command will do, just only this command or any other options I need to give
<azeem> Chandan: read the documentation for it
<thom> Chandan: read the friend manpage, i suggest
<thom> friendly
<Chandan> azeem, ok
<Chandan> thom, ok
<Chandan> azeem, How do I do this recursevely ..May be gdm package needs libc6 exact match .. the other package needs gdm exact match ..
<Chandan> azeem, i want to create a ubuntu like repository for my project ,as I am working on buidling a distro ..
<azeem> Chandan: just rebuild all
<azeem> those are binary dependencies, not source ones
<Chandan> azeem, I have edited some packages and added xbossY same as ubuntu ..But I am facing that exact match problem
<Chandan> azeem, Then what about source pacakge dependencies
<azeem> what about them?
<Chandan> azeem, what rebuild all will do
<azeem> it will make sure your package dependencies are right
<Chandan> azeem, ok
<Chandan> azeem, I dont have rebuild command in my system ..Which package do I need to install
<azeem> there is no package
<azeem> Chandan: you can (i) read up on how Debian autobuilders work (I won't help you, this is quite difficult), (ii) pay somebody to do it for yuo (iii) find a custom solution yourself
<Chandan> azeem, Then rebuild all means what , I need to rebuild all the packages again
<Chandan> azeem, ok
<azeem> or you can forget about recursively and see what breaks, and then rebuild those specifically
<bhale> thom: thats true
<bhale> thom: (pie implies pic iirc)
<bhale> slomo: its like 10% i think
<bhale> slomo: well, i dont know about raw asm
<bhale> thom: just that pie applies to executables, not shared objects.. or more executables are pic shared objects
<slomo> bhale: 10% ist really much...
* bhale munges some data
<bhale> ..from excel
<bhale> awk to the rescue
<bhale> our database pads ip addresses with zeros
<bhale> 010.009.074.109
<bhale> awesome.
<thom> kwality
<thom> (yes, PIE implies PIC)
<thom> mmm, pie
<bhale> "you have a problem, so you decide to use regex. now you have two problems"
<bhale> jwz
<ogra> haha
<ogra> he's right :)
<thom> like most things jwz says, he's somewhat right
<ogra> yeah
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hmm, adept has a funny menu entry
<LaserJock> "Adept Manager Manage Packages"
<bhale> haha feisty
<bhale> you saw it here first folks
<LaserJock> no I didn't
<LaserJock> :p
<bhale> whats the animal?
<LaserJock> I don't know that
<bhale> lame
<LaserJock> it's got to be feisty ferret :-)
<zul> hmm?
<Adri2000> edgy+1 = feisty ?
<LaserJock> feisty finch?
<LaserJock> in a not-yet-official way
<Adri2000> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/feature-cycle
<zul> fiesty fox
<Adri2000> "This discussion will describe how feature planning in Ubuntu should happen for Feisty+1"
<LaserJock> exactly
<bhale> feisty fox vs the ice weasel
<sivang> re
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> so it's known now that it's fesity?
<lloydinho> heh. Looks like sabdfl managed to leak this himself.. :)
<Adri2000> now I understand "Feisty", I read that earlier and I was not sure it was edgy+1 :)
* Nafallo looks forward to seed the rc ;-)
<illovae> yo
<highvoltage> yo illo
<joejaxx> highvoltage: hello
<thom> ajmitch: so relabelling on unstable under vmware with the targeted policy takes on the order of seconds
<joejaxx> ajmitch: if i wanted to create a user that is just like the initial user after native install in ubuntu i can just to adduser --system --group joejaxx right?
<joejaxx> do*
<joejaxx> ajmitch: and it whould be setup the same way?
<LaserJock> I don't know that you want --system
<LaserJock> for a real user
<joejaxx> LaserJock: so minus the system rather
<joejaxx> i whould have to do adduser --group joejaxx
<joejaxx> and add myself to the sudoerfile?
<LaserJock> no, I think that should be handled via groups
<LaserJock> i.e. the adm group
<joejaxx> no i have to add the joejaxx group to the adm group?
<LaserJock> you need to add the joejaxx user to the adm group
<LaserJock> I believe
<joejaxx> oh ok
<highvoltage> hi joejaxx
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am just wondering why is there a joejaxx group when there is no one in it?
<joejaxx> highvoltage: hello
<LaserJock> joejaxx: joejaxx isn't in it?
<fowlduck> hey, anyone having ipw2100 issues with edgy since this morning?  or am I alone?
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe that is implyed
<joejaxx> LaserJock: no it is not
<joejaxx> it is just an empty group "joejaxx" with a guid of 1000
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> same on my machine
<joejaxx> LaserJock: so i have to do
<joejaxx> adduser --group --ingroup admin joejaxx
<joejaxx> to create the joejaxx group with nothing in it
<joejaxx> and to add  myself to the admin group
<LaserJock> I don't think you need to include the joejaxx group
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> I think that is created automatically
<joejaxx> ah alright
<LaserJock> just try it out with a test user on your machine
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<crimsun> cbx33: they're all useful (languages), but until Java becomes Free, then arguably less so than the others
<cbx33> crimsun, so in your opinion....which would be most beneficial for me to learn "in-depth"
<crimsun> cbx33: depends on the application, though one can't go wrong with either C++ or Python
<crimsun> the language is secondary to the design
<cbx33> ok.... /me vows to learn more python
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> can you code gnome applets in python?
<thom> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> nice
<thom> learn c rather than c++, corrupt yourself later
<cbx33> then I'll carry on with python
<cbx33> for the meanwhile
<Toadstool> uhuh, my piupart thing all over Universe is currently testing dblatex... 13286 to go after this one :/
<Toadstool> +packages
<LaserJock> isn't l-r-m supposed to bring in the ATI driver?
<crimsun> the kernel module, yes.
<LaserJock> my l-r-m only deps on nvidia stuff
<crimsun> LaserJock: I take it you've not looked at its package listing?
<LaserJock> package listing?
<crimsun> for l-r-m-$(uname -r)
<LaserJock> I did a apt-cache show linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17-10-generic
<LaserJock> and all I see is nvidia stuff
<crimsun> red herring.
<crimsun> crimsun@adhd:~$ dpkg-deb -c linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17-10-generic_2.6.17.5-10_i386.deb|grep fglrx|wc -l
<crimsun> 4
<crimsun> always look at the deb itself.
<LaserJock> ok, but the question still stands
<LaserJock> I don't know how I can tell if I have the ATI driver installed
<crimsun> /which/ driver? kernel? X?
<crimsun> if you have l-r-m-$(uname -r) installed, then you have the former
<LaserJock> heck if I know? :-)
<LaserJock> I just want to have the binary ATI driver so I can get my X working right
<LaserJock> although it still might not work
<crimsun> you need xorg-driver-fglrx and fglrx-control in addition
<aboe> LaserJock, open up a gnome-terminal and type in the following : glxinfo
<LaserJock> does nvidia need that too?
<crimsun> nvidia doesn't need anything related to ATI.
<LaserJock> no, but I mean I thought with nvidia all you had to do was install l-r-m and you were good to go
<crimsun> you need nvidia-glx{,-legacy}
<crimsun> l-r-m comes by default.
<aboe> sadly you also need to change you're xorg.conf LaserJock to load up a different driver
<LaserJock> I know aboe
<LaserJock> I was just confused about the dependency situation
<crimsun> still unclear? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
<LaserJock> well, if konqi worked I'd try it :-)
<crimsun> use w3m then.
<LaserJock> I was reading the info
<pirast> ajmitch, what's about gnomesword? :-P
<LaserJock> I just wasn't sure if it was right
<herzi> ajmitch: ping
<LaserJock> crimsun: sweet, I didn't know w3m was installed by default
<aboe> me neither...hehehe
<aboe> good to know if I lose X
<LaserJock> darn, I don't even know what ATI card this thing has. I think maybe ATI doesn't have a driver for it :(
<crimsun> lspci -v should tell you
<LaserJock> says unknown device
<LaserJock> I'll blame apple
<zul> get a nice x86 that should solve the problem
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> that's the problem
<crimsun> which model?
<LaserJock> it's a 17" intel iMac
<LaserJock> I think it's something like a x1600
<Toadstool> LaserJock: did you try to update-pciids to get lspci a little more verbose about your ATI card?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> oh, that worked
<Toadstool> :)
<LaserJock> ATI Technologies Inc M56P [Radeon Mobility X1600] 
<LaserJock> thanks Toadstool
<Toadstool> np
<hub> so proprietary insecure driver
<hub> ...
<LaserJock> hub: do you know that?
<thom> LaserJock: if you can't positively assert it's secure, then it's insecure
<hub> given that you can't review the code
<LaserJock> I'm not questioning if it's secure or not
<thom> and because it's proprietary, then you can't assert it's secure
<hub> and that it runs as r00t
<LaserJock> I'm questioning wheither ATI even has a linux driver for it or not
<LaserJock> when I tried the first time they didn't
<hub> LaserJock: it came 6 month after the card got released
<hub> so I don't call that support
<hub> but it is in there now
<LaserJock> ok cool
<hub> that does not mean it will work on a Mac
<hub> becaues ATI does not support that either
<hub> (even Intel)
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> I thought you said that they had a linux driver for it?
<LaserJock> now I'm confused
<hub> for regular PCs
<hub> not for ICBM
<hub> but it should work on ICBM with Linux
<LaserJock> well, I'll just try it and see
<hub> just a proof that mac are not suited for runing Linux
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, I guess I better boot back into OS X then
<hub> or buy a real PC
<LaserJock> it's not mine
<LaserJock> I don't get to decide
<LaserJock> at least maybe I can get Linux on the thing
<LaserJock> and show my boss that Linux isn't crap
<LaserJock> it's a really nice machine too
<LaserJock> it sure beats my other PC
<LaserJock> so I'd rather develop on this
<LaserJock> ok, that seemed to work
<LaserJock> and konqueror works
<LaserJock> wahoo
* _DvP_ is away: Occup
<thom> _DvP_: please disable public away
<shawarma> Hmm... I'd like to calculate the total size of ubuntu-desktop and all its dependencies.. Any bright ideas?
<mc44> do you need permission from manufacturers to redistribute drivers, i.e. could closed source wireless drivers for use with ndiswrapper be distributed by Ubuntu? would you have to get permission from each manufacturer?
<thom> you would need permission from the IP owner of the firmware or driver
<mc44> thom: hmm I guess that makes my cunning plane for wireless working out of the box a tad unfeasible :-/
<mc44> *plan
<thom> mc44: heh, you're not the first to suggest it :-)
<mc44> thom: I guess we'd get open source drivers before getting permission to rdistribute from everyone :)
<thom> most likely
<thom> ivoks: hey, wanna import the new ion3? ;-)
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> i'm trying to get my laptop work :)
<ivoks> thom: anyway... it's too late for edgy :)
<thom> pfft
<thom> coward :-)
<ivoks> well, there a role for everyone :)
<ivoks> 's
* bhale HUGS StevenK 
<bhale> bug 59325
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59325 in muine "Crashes due to API change in Glade [edgy] " [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59325
<mc44>  I wonder if a program would be useful that runs ndiswrapper's graphical frontend if a pci-id of a card know to work with ndiswrapper is found, and gives helpful instructions like prompting for the driver cd and auto sets up the driver if found, or suggests a weblink
<superm1> ndisgtk?
<superm1> like modifying that?
<mc44> yeah, with actual hardware detection to find out the chip and tell you what driver you need
<superm1> i personally think that'd be very useful
<superm1> you considered writing a spec for it for edgy+1?
<mc44> superm1: yeah, well I was consdering a cunning spec with drivers on the CD but obviously thats impractical, so I'm trying to think of a solution better than our current one
<superm1> considering the shere volume of drivers out there you'd need approval to distribute, i agree and dont think on a CD would be practical.  a hal rule for wireless devices to run something similar to ndisgtk
<superm1> that detects the manufacturer
<superm1> and either recommends the website to get the driver or asks you to put in the cd you got with it
<mc44> right
<superm1> well considering ndisgtk is a good start - do you know if its an ubuntu started app or if we are pulling it from somewhere upstream?  might be a good idea to talk to whoever wrote it
<superm1> and see what they have on their plate and would be willing to help
<superm1> Sam Pohlenz <retrix@internode.on.net> is the maintainer sitting on it
<mc44> I think its from ndiswrapper people, but i'll check
<superm1> and we didn't pull from debian based on that version number
<superm1> 0.6-0ubuntu1
<shawarma> superm1: It was a SoC project last year.
<shawarma> superm1: I think ogra mentored it.
<superm1> ah
<superm1> shawarma, is Sam the one that wrote it then?
<superm1> for SoC
<shawarma> superm1: no idea
<sivang> hi
<shawarma> superm1: I just remember we talked about it in Paris.
<shawarma> hi, sivang!
<superm1> well mc44, i'd say you should throw a spec together and prod someone who is going to google campus next month to talk about it
<sivang> hey shawarma , how's it going?
<superm1> sounds like a great idea
<mc44> superm1: will do :)
<mc44> superm1: although convincing someone to talk about it might be more tricky :)
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> well if i was going i would, but you know how that goes ;)
<shawarma> sivang: I'm fine. I'm just getting ready to go on a field trip with a bunch of people from university. It's going to be great.
<shawarma> sivang: How about you?
<superm1> mc44, when you get the spec together, you can CC me on it, and i'll be another set of eyes to look it over if you want
<sivang> shawarma: felt a bit exhusted, took a pill, went to sleep, woke up, trying to see what stuff I can do next :)
<mc44> superm1: sure, thanks
<ajmitch> morning all
<sivang> morning ajmitch
<Toadstool> hey ajmitch
<zul> morning
<Kyral> whee published my first RubyGem
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> what is it for?
<Kyral> My little system shell I have been writing in Ruby
<Kyral> I registered the project to RubyForge a while ago, but only now got around to learning how to make Gems
<LaserJock> I've been trying to learn C++
<Kyral> I know it
<Kyral> I don't prefer it :P
<slomo> LaserJock: better learn a good language instead of c++ ;)
<LaserJock> it seems kinda cool, but it makes me love Python more :-)
<Kyral> Granted you can do anything in C
<LaserJock> slomo: well, it's not exactly of my choosing. I'm trying to help out with a project that is written in C++
<LaserJock> gnome chemistry utils
<slomo> ok :)
<LaserJock> trust me, I avoided it as long as I could :-)
<Kyral> And I just find Ruby sexy
<LaserJock> man oh man this iMac is fast
<LaserJock> for me anyway
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> imbrandon!
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> LaserJock, get a new iMac ?
<imbrandon> at home ?
<LaserJock> no, my work iMac
<LaserJock> last night I just decided "The heck with it, I'm installing edgy"
<LaserJock> got it all installed last night
<LaserJock> got ATI done this morning
<LaserJock> creating an edgy pbuilder at the moment
<imbrandon> nice
<zul> oh man fiesty fawn?!
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> no way
<zul> yeah it was announced on -devel
<ajmitch> people are surprised?
<ajmitch> it's been leaked so often
<sivang> indeed.
<LaserJock> but Fawn?
<sivang> even on specification pages
<LaserJock> I knew Fiesty
<LaserJock> but Fawn is just silly :-)
<superm1> you know if they were really planning this counting up the letters thing, why didn't we have corendal cat or something before dapper drake
<imbrandon> it wasent planned till dapper was released to do it that way
<zul> heh..i have images of bambie's mother in my head now
<imbrandon> zul, hahah
<superm1> haha
<ajmitch> of course *everyone* will misspell it
<sivang> ah right, so there's an announcement out
<hmrocha> hello, i'd like some help with a livecd i'm creating
<ajmitch> NB: it's feisty, not fiesty :)
<hmrocha> i don't know if this is the apropriate channel
<hmrocha> how can i change the layout of the keyboard for the livecd gnome session?
<ajmitch> hmrocha: this channel mainly deals with universe, and -devel is flat out with release preparation
<hmrocha> ajmitch: ok, i'll try #ubuntu then
<hmrocha> i have no idea how to change xorg.conf on the livecd :(
<hmrocha> it always gets replaced on boot
<superm1> is there any nice way to handle a package that should be taking source from one archive and binary data from another?  Is it just more simplistic to create two different deb packages, one for all the data using the extracted binary package, and then one for building the source, and then just have the source depend on the data?
<ajmitch> superm1: better to build 2 separate packages
<superm1> okay thats what I was thinking.
<superm1> now the binary data package, if its not in tar.gz or tar.bz2, buts its a zip.  do I extract the zip and recompress as a .orig.tar.gz then?
<ajmitch> that's one way of doing it (the easiest)
<LaserJock> you can, you could also tar up a dir that just has the .zip in it
<ajmitch> or that way :)
<superm1> and then unzip during the rules run
<LaserJock> and unzip it when you need it
<superm1> ok
<LaserJock> sometimes it's more logical to do it that way
<LaserJock> when it's something like a zip that get's unziped to / or something
<superm1> but then it adds unzip to build deps :)
<ajmitch> exactly
<LaserJock> yep
<ajmitch> which is why I didn't feel like suggesting it
<ajmitch> more manual hacking
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I've done packages though where it's data that is meant to be unziped in /
<LaserJock> and there it's easier to unzip it into debain/<packagename>/
<superm1> right
<superm1> i'll take a look at the archive later on when i get home tonight then
<superm1> and see what it looks like inside
<mc44> superm1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyWirelessDrivers , please feel free to make it suck less.
<mc44> or anyone else, please point out the gaping idiotic flaws in it
<superm1> lets see ...
<superm1> mc44, I changed the spec around and fixed several typos.  I don't think you should include the information about trying to get manufacturers to distribute binary drivers on a CD
<superm1> thats a much larger task then you would really want to uptake in a spec like this
<mc44> superm1: Yes, I agree
<superm1> I left it in in the case you really want to try, but i'm pretty sure the spec will be shot down at least once on those grounds
<mc44> superm1: no, I think it should be a seperate spec
<mc44> superm1: thanks alot!
<superm1> not a problem :)
<superm1> CC me on the LP spec when you get that made too
<superm1> i'd love to follow this, and help put it together if its approved
<mc44> great
<cbx33> ajmitch, thanks for the help earlier
<cbx33> did we get any feedback on that f-spot bug?
<mc44> superm1: I was planning on mailing ubuntu-devel requesting comments, and hopefully convince someone to talk about it at UDS :)
<superm1> good.  just be sure to scrub that contacting manufacturers part out first
<ajmitch> cbx33: that it wasn't reproduced, so may be issues outside of f-spot
<superm1> and btw.  nice ninja turtles theme to the people roles
<mc44> superm1: ;) yes I already did take that out
<mc44> superm1: now if only I could stop launchpad sucking so I could create a spec... :)
<superm1> hehe
* superm1 notices that ajmitch was right: *FeistyFawn*.... i before e except after c
<ajmitch> superm1: almost as annoying as the countless people writing about 'drapper drake'
<mc44> FeistyFeiwn
<superm1> at least in this case, some people have the defense that english has lots of silly rules and its "not their primary language"
<superm1> but drapper drake is just inexcusable
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> especially when you have words like 'caffeine' that don't follow the usual rules
<superm1> i have to admit I didn't know all of the exceptions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_before_e_except_after_c
<ajmitch> well
<ajmitch> scratch that
<ajmitch> there are other exceptions :)
<ajmitch> yay for wikipedia
<ajmitch> I see caffeine in the list
<superm1> hehe.  i read the other day there is a dump avail for the wikipedia mysql database.  its 10 gigs. and portable to the larger ipod varieties.  i almost wish i had a large ipod just to say that i have wikipedia on my ipod
<imbrandon> i for one welcome our new deer overlords ....
<ajmitch> imbrandon: stop that
* imbrandon sits in the corner
<sivang> heh
<mc44> superm1: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-wireless-drivers, I took the liberty of subscribing you
<superm1> great thanks
<superm1> oh and there is a button to propose for UDS agenda. very easy
<ajmitch> it helps if people who care about it are going to be there to discuss it
<superm1> sigh.....https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/feisty-telepathy
<superm1> and it begins
<ajmitch> sigh?
<ajmitch> that's sabdfl registering specs
<superm1> oh nvm.
<superm1> i was reading something wrong
<mc44> superm1: I plan to do that by including this bit of bribery in my email to -devel: "Anyone taking up this request will receive a genuine pony (or teenage ninja turtle) of their choice."
<ajmitch> mc44: amazing
<mc44> can't fail :)
<superm1> well i dont know if pony is appropriate though, considering we are now deer worshipers
<superm1> maybe you should provide venison or something.
<mc44> good point ;) [there goes another kitten] 
<superm1> does anyone know where xchat pulls its default web browser setting for links?  It kept opening them in opera and frustrating me so I removed opera.  Now its opening them in w3m.
<mc44> go into firefox settings and click the default browser thing, that fixed it for me
<superm1> just tried that.  still opening in w3m for some reason.
<superm1> unless i gotta quit xchat and come back in.
<superm1> hmm nope.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-19
<LaserJock> awww shucks, looks like I don't get AIGLX
<LaserJock> and I was sooo looking forward to the cube :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you can do aiglx with the freedrivers iirc, you just need to enable composite in xorg.conf ( thats all i did for compiz/beryl to work )
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why not?
<LaserJock> yeah, but I can't use the free drivers
<ajmitch> don't you want ultra-shiny bling to rot your eyes?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I might be able to use XGL, but I might as well commit software suicide ;-)
<imbrandon> not xgl , aiglx built into 7.1
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what drivers do you use?
<gnomefreak> but you need the beta drivers
<LaserJock> I use the ATI binary driver
<LaserJock> becuase that's the only one that supports my card
<ajmitch> ah, sucks to be you then
<LaserJock> yes, that's what I'm saying :-)
<gnomefreak> are we still playing with the idea of grumpy groundhog or was that stopped?
* gnomefreak was asked about that a week or 2 ago
<ajmitch> it'll probably still happen one day
<LaserJock> I'll just have to go stare at the Sun for a while
<ajmitch> but it's *not* a distro for people to run
<joejaxx> LaserJock: how big is main + universe?
<joejaxx> 20gb?
<ajmitch> it will be a repository of really bleeding-edge packages
<imbrandon> haha like 110gb
<imbrandon> bleeding-edgy == broken 98% of the time
<ajmitch> more like 99.9%
<LaserJock> you think?
<ajmitch> we're talking automated compilation from upstream CVS/SVN, etc
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think it would be too bad
<LaserJock> depends on the core I suppose
<ajmitch> can you imagine running a system built on bleeding-edge gcc & glibc?
<ajmitch> I know there are some people that do it..
<imbrandon> LaserJock, heh well the core would always be changing too thats the thing
<imbrandon> hum is TheMuso awake yet ?
<imbrandon> scratch that
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yes I am here.
<ajmitch> morning TheMuso
<TheMuso> But only for another 40 mins or so.
<TheMuso> Morning ajmitch.
<imbrandon> moins TheMuso
<imbrandon> nevermind i dident have time to finish it up, i was going point you to the farm spec
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<imbrandon> but i still have a bit more to do
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<imbrandon> ( and its dinner time )
<TheMuso> What do you mean didn't have time to finish it?
<imbrandon> makin a proper spec
<imbrandon> of it
<TheMuso> Well just ping me when you finish it, and I will keep my eye out for it.
<FunnyLookinHat> gnomesword bug
<FunnyLookinHat> Ubugtu, gnomesword
<LaserJock> bug #65451
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65451 in gnomesword "[UNMETDEPS]  gnomesword has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65451
<FunnyLookinHat> heh yea I found it after a quick search
<whiprush> ajmitch: awake?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what keyboard layout do you use on a mac?
<imbrandon> pc105 iirc
<imbrandon> what ever it defaults to
<minghua> pc104, more likely
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure about some of the buttons
<imbrandon> well it should have loaded powerbuttonsd
<imbrandon> for those
<imbrandon> e.g. the fn+ keys
<LaserJock> imbrandon: this isn't on a laptop, just a regular mac keyboard
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but I don't have a numlock or insert key, etc.
<minghua> they are just different names
<minghua> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_keyboard says you use "Help" as insert, and "clear" as numlock
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but iirc powerbutonsd makes mac keyboards act "right"
<LaserJock> oh, now I'm not sure what "right" means :-)
<imbrandon> well act like you would expect them to in macosx
<imbrandon> ajmitch, whoop here comes hobbsee everyone hide
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> hahaha
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> [20:25]  <imbrandon> ajmitch, whoop here comes hobbsee everyone hide
<imbrandon> [20:25]  <imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> [20:25]  --> Hobbsee has joined this channel (n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee).
<zul> aieee
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso, imbrandon
<Hobbsee> :P
<TheMuso> imbrandon: What you got going there? ESP?
<imbrandon> man ;)
<imbrandon> msn*
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<TheMuso> Why bother when she is going to be on IRC at the same time?
* ajmitch runs
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> TheMuso, sometimes i use IM's when i'm not on irc
<TheMuso> Right.
<zul> imbrandon: traitor...using msn
<imbrandon> or if i'm not on my normal computer
<imbrandon> zul, hahah Hobbsee is my onlyu msn contact
<imbrandon> all the rest are jabber ;)
* Hobbsee has jabber as well
<zul> imbrandon: still....we are going to have to have a little talk though
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i'm not all the time...
* Hobbsee chases after ajmitch 
<ajmitch> help!
* imbrandon hands ajmitch a disquise
<TheMuso> I use MSN for my friends who don't know any better, but I also have a Jabber account.
<imbrandon> RUN !!
<imbrandon> TheMuso, same
<zul> heh there should be an motu octagon at uds
<imbrandon> a wha?
<zul> like a ring..
<imbrandon> i'm sure there will be plenty of motu bof's
<imbrandon> i know what an octigon is i just dont see the corelation
<LaserJock> like the ubuntu logo
<LaserJock> except we have more
<TheMuso> I am really starting to feel sad about not going to this UDS.
<imbrandon> :/
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: next tiem
<TheMuso> heh. Gartner reckon Apple should license hardware manufacturing/distribution to Dell.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Depends on where it is I guess, but yeah.
<imbrandon> woot flash9 works great even with konqui, too bad this still isnt ppc or amd64 builds\
<imbrandon> guess we'll still need to fixup gnash for that ( and free x86 )
<Nafallo> amd64 is planned, isn't it?
<ajmitch> yes
<imbrandon> Nafallo, i guess planned but when they released the beta there is only x86 ;(
<Nafallo> yea, I've looked at it some hours ago :-)
* Nafallo waves to the world :-)
<imbrandon> arg , netsplit
<imbrandon> yea i loaded it about an hour ago and tested it with konqui and ff
<imbrandon> interesting libgnash overides libflash even if both are installed
<imbrandon> anyhow brb more mt dew
<imbrandon> LaserJock, what was that site your wife needs ?
<LaserJock> http://www.topsecretrecipes.com/
<LaserJock> imbrandon: does it work?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss110.png
<imbrandon> good new eh?
<imbrandon> news*
<LaserJock> yes, very
<LaserJock> how'd you install flash 9?
<imbrandon> from the adobe site, i'm working on a deb now
<imbrandon> i'm just hacking the flasplugin-nonfree 7 deb to make an "unofficial" one as its far to late for edgy
<imbrandon> but i'll put it on imbrandon.com
<LaserJock> that'd be awesome dude
<imbrandon> its super simple to install from the site if you wanan grab it from there ( but your welcome to wait )
<imbrandon> litterly its download a tar, untar it , copy the *.so ( one file ) to /usr/lib/firefox/plugins  then restart firefox
<LaserJock> imbrandon: where did you download the tar? I can't find it
<imbrandon> LaserJock, one sec
<imbrandon> LaserJock, http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/flashplayer9_update/FP9_plugin_beta_101806.tar.gz
<hub> imbrandon: it is not a good news
<hub> imbrandon: the technology is still NOT open
<chillywilly> hi
<imbrandon> hub, good news he can get his wife off windows now
<hub> who needs flash anyway
<imbrandon> hub, i know thus i'm packaging gnash too ;)
<imbrandon> hub, LaserJock's wife wont leave windows untill that website worked on linux , so yes good news ;P
<imbrandon> even if its still evil its far less evil than full blown windows
<hub> what is evil is all these incompetent people that think that flash belong to the www
<LaserJock> for sure
<Nafallo> yay! xen :-)
<Nafallo> now I just want amd64 serverkernel for it ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: then wait for feisty
<ajmitch> or roll your own, shouldn't be hard
<Nafallo> I won't run feisty on my server :-)
<Nafallo> yea, I was about to do that at some point I think.
<ajmitch> oh well
<Nafallo> I have sources in my develdir ;-)
<ajmitch> I don't think we'll have another x-s-2.6.17 build through
<ajmitch> since it takes over the buildd for awhile
<Nafallo> we need more of those then :-)
<hub> edgy is still very rough
<hub> I have to use a pre-dapper kernel to have a functionnal laptop
<hub> crossing my finger that all the udev thing will not break because of that
<LaserJock> imbrandon: wahoo, it worked
<imbrandon> LaserJock, rockin, i almost have a deb ready too
<LaserJock> I didn't realize it was just one file
<imbrandon> yea just one .so
<imbrandon> its all most plugins are that are staticly linked
<crimsun> oh god, please don't package the beta of flash9
<imbrandon> umm ok, why not? you know if not there will be lots of crack about getting ti working
<crimsun> you are virtually ensuring people will SCREW their systems AND file bugs against flashplugin-nonfree -- which I will not be pleased about.
<crimsun> (the entire download mechanism needs to be reworked for the beta of flash9 anyway)
<imbrandon> hrm actualy i already have it working
<imbrandon> i just dident announce the url ( and wont now i guess )
<Hawkwind> Flash 9 just simply works.  There is no hassle with it
<crimsun> well, yes, it's certainly kludgeable. I did it, too, but I'm not going to condone it.
<imbrandon> crimsun, right
<imbrandon> i just thought a professional doing it would be better than crack on the forums ( can we call ourselfs profesional heh )
<crimsun> it's all crack until Bart sorts it for Debian.
<imbrandon> right but the _level_ of crack is far less
<imbrandon> :) but i do see your point , i'm not saying that
<imbrandon> i just dident want to see checkinstall debs floating arround
<Hawkwind> Ickkkkkkk
* Hawkwind Shudders @ the word checkinstall
<crimsun> note that if you make a deb available, you are breaking their EULA.
<imbrandon> even downloading from them like 7 does ?
<crimsun> depends what you're doing with libflashplayer.so.
<crimsun> Even copying libflashplayer.so across the network breaks it.
<imbrandon> it just apt-get sourced flashplugin-nonfree from the repos and hacked it to look for the new tar.gz
<imbrandon> changed the versions etc
<crimsun> s/versions/md5sums/ ?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> md5sum of the tar and of the file inside
<crimsun> this new EULA makes my skin crawl
<imbrandon> heh yea kinda like the gplv3 does to me
<imbrandon> one sec more soda
<LaserJock> crimsun: is it much worse then for the previous version (7?) ?
<crimsun> it's shades creepier
<hub> it is not even free ware
<hub> because you allow them to audit at YOUR expenses your use of their software
<imbrandon> hub, yes it is a nasty , but as i've said before without getting to much into the whole FLOSS vs propiatary talk, some things are perceived as nessesary evils such as flash ( i'm one of those ) and untill gnash is more mature I have to choose my battles, but on the flip side of that I'm am packaging gnash too to grab a wider audiance and hopefully make it more mature faster
<hub> I choose my battle
<hub> boycott flash
<imbrandon> so in other words i agree with you on the ideas, but in practice the world isnt perfect
<hub> in practice you are hypocryt
<imbrandon> no i've never said i'm 100% floss, and never will probably in the forseeable future, so thats not a hypocryte
<imbrandon> i beleavein floss and stand behind it 100%, that dosent mean i'm RMS and shun closed also
<imbrandon> if there is an open alternative i use it, if there is not ( in the case of flash ) i cant so i dont shoose to do without
<imbrandon> s/shoose/choose
<tritium> crimsun already gets to support users with flash 9 and sound problems ;)
<crimsun> yeah. I /love/ it.
<imbrandon> tritium, should be alot less though as it uses alsa and gracefully fails now or so they say
<hub> imbrandon: I do without as well. lookm, no flash
<tritium> imbrandon: dunno, but he's already getting questions in #ubuntu
<imbrandon> ouch
<hub> they is IMHO the best strategy
<imbrandon> hub, and thats your choice, i dont say its a bad one, its just not the correct choice for me
<imbrandon> i do without flash on my ppc every day , as its the machine i use the most
<imbrandon> as far as a desktop
<imbrandon> point is its not a perfect world, and not everyone is a floss ONLY person, nor should they be imho but that just _my_ opinion, and honestly we both know where each other stand and this isnt really the place so i'll stop here
* imbrandon hugs hub
<imbrandon> thats one reason i sold my nvidia cards for intel graphics
<hub> instead of wasting time supporting their proprietary shit, why not helping on gnash?
<imbrandon> so i could use 3d with oss drivers
<imbrandon> hub, I am , but is dosent happen over night
<imbrandon> hub, you dident see the part where i said i'm trying to bring gnash to a wider audiance in feisty so we'll get more and better bug reports
<imbrandon> and hopefull make it mature faster
<imbrandon> and as soon as it does i'll use it fulll time
<imbrandon> hub, infact see http://www.imbrandon.com/packages/pool/edgy/gnash/ <-- my plem packages ( i wouldent install them though as there is some known packaging issues i have yet to upload fixes for )
<imbrandon> but point is i am doing both, i'm not a black or white person , there is grey for me
<imbrandon> infact there is grey for every person that run oo.o or ff or krita or many other floss apps on windows
<imbrandon> its just one more step in evolution, look at it like this, flash9 has brought one more person to linux ( and a future gnash user when it works for them ) e.g. LaserJock's wife
<imbrandon> its cases liek that that make it not black or white for me
<crimsun> I wonder if anyone's actually going to provide feedback on a dapper-updates package in the 'test' phase of SRU.
<ajmitch> crimsun: that'd require people knowing about the package & wanting to test it
<crimsun> you'd figure with the number of people whining about broken sound there'd be /someone/ aware of it.
<crimsun> I may as well just trawl the forum now and post.
<ajmitch> easier to just complain
<ajmitch> I tend to trawl forums & harass users to post bugs when I get the urge
<LaserJock> well, that's what I'm worried about with the SRU process
<LaserJock> are we going to get much out of it?
<ajmitch> probably not
<LaserJock> the 2 weeks in -proposed
<ajmitch> way too many packages
<ajmitch> 2 weeks is a long long time
<LaserJock> yes it is
<ajmitch> I don't particularly like it since we have no way of making sure that the packages get the testing needed in those 2 weeks
<LaserJock> it'll be interesting to see what comes of these motu specs for UDSMV
<ajmitch> interesting times
<LaserJock> it all feels quite overwhelming
<ajmitch> why so?
<LaserJock> lots of issues, things to think about, and that's beside just doing the actual package maintenance
<ajmitch> it's always like this, we just choose to ignore it most times
<LaserJock> I don't want us to get so bogged down that we stop actually doing any work
<ajmitch> a constant problem
<LaserJock> but it seems like somebody should be working about it
<ajmitch> that's why we go to MV to talk about it
<LaserJock> we need a UDS at crimsun's house :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> hehe
<tritium> LaserJock: which specs?
<LaserJock> there are quite a few governance specs
<tritium> LaserJock: is there a URL with a list?
<LaserJock> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/motu
<tritium> thanks
<LaserJock> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/new-developers
<LaserJock> tritium: btw, the list of Mountain View specs is : https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/
<ajmitch> lots of crack
<ajmitch> & growing
<tritium> LaserJock: are you going?
<ajmitch> 'beryl-by-default'
<tritium> I may try to go if I can combine it with a business trip.
<LaserJock> tritium: i've got a departmental seminar on the 7th
<LaserJock> so I'll drive over that afternoon
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you won't be there before then?
<tritium> LaserJock: nice, maybe I'll see you there
<LaserJock> ajmitch: unfortunately not
<imbrandon> ajmitch, he is comming tuesday
<LaserJock> it's really bad timing
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<LaserJock> my inlaws called and said they are coming down in like a week
<LaserJock> then I had this seminar planned before the UDS announcment
<imbrandon> LaserJock, so your not comming at all , or just late ?
<LaserJock> I'll be there Tuesday night on
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<LaserJock> my seminar is at noon
<LaserJock> I plan on driving pretty much straight from there
<LaserJock> so I should be there by dinner :-)
<imbrandon> beryl_by_default should be feisty+2
<imbrandon> not feisty
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea its only like 5.5 hours right ?
<imbrandon> from reno to sf that is
<LaserJock> something like that
<LaserJock> 4 hrs to SF
<imbrandon> i took a trip to SF like 2 times for concerts when i lived in reno
<imbrandon> stoped at donner lake a few times with the kids too
<imbrandon> heh
* minghua wonders why edgy-fontconfig is in UDSMV's spec list
<minghua> deferred?
<ajmitch> yeah
<minghua> a good reason not to write the release codename in your spec name :-)
<LaserJock> yeah, wouldn't want people to know our specs were from hoary or something ;-)
<hub> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7719803018.html <- ahahah
<imbrandon> hub, yea good think  7.0.63 hasent been used in ages, i'm sure i could drudge up vunerabilties for linux2.4 or most anything else :)
<imbrandon> s/think/thing
<minghua> we have spam in malone now?
<minghua> where should I report this?  #launchpad?
<imbrandon> minghua, i would say so
<imbrandon> ohh ohh i soo want a sun blackbox
<imbrandon> actualy i could probably build one for what they cost
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<tonyyarusso> Hi all, I recently formally wrote up a feature specification proposal, and as I do not having coding skills it would need someone to step up for both the Drafter and Assignee positions.  I would greatly appreciate it if anyone would be willing to do that.  The spec is filed at https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gaim-calendar-auto-aways if you'd like to take a look.
<superm1> imbrandon, do you think it will be possible to get two last patches in for mythtv and mythplugins prior to edgy release?
<imbrandon> well RC is being released in a  few hours, depends on how critiacl the fixes are
<imbrandon> most likely not tbh but i can look
<superm1> i wouldn't call either of them critical.  just the mythplugins would make for a cleaner install of mythweb
<superm1> the mythtv isn't very important at all
<imbrandon> then i would say not
<superm1> bug 66564 for mythplugins if you would like to look
<imbrandon> only things getting in now are ultra critical
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66564 in mythplugins "Mythweb doesn't set permissions correctly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66564
<superm1> oic
<superm1> well makes sense :)
<imbrandon> heh we are 6 days from release and all ;)
<superm1> well it's okay, our deers will be very accepting i'm sure
<imbrandon> food time , brb
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: it must be some time to upload some crackful stuff, then!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, of course.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :D
<superm1> is there any particularly urgent stuff you guys will need a hand with still?  i'll have a few hours tomorrow at work that I can probably kill giving a hand.
<Hobbsee> superm1: unmet deps
<superm1> hehe, thats always the story :).  Okay
<superm1> i haven't looked at the list for a day or two.
<Hobbsee> superm1: well, they're very useful, assuming they actually get into the archive.  also just fixing various bugs in the archive
<superm1> very well.  i'll see you guys tomorrow then and see what i can do to lend a hand more.  -Night
* ajmitch returns
<Fujitsu> Evening, ajmitch.
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
* Fujitsu finally gets around to uploading that new mpd.
<ajmitch> put the changelog on malone?
<Fujitsu> I got a UVF for it a couple of days ago.
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> but for the upload
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: with all these new MOTU recruits, i get to be the lazy MOTU instead of you :P
<ajmitch> it helps to see changelogs on bugs when it's approval time
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I can still be a lazy MOTU
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: not when you have to do UVFe stuff
<ajmitch> & a whole bunch of other release-critical stuff
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, post the changelog entries since the current Ubuntu version as a comment on the bug?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: basically I need justification for uploads - being a UVF exception it should be ok
<ajmitch> but for everything else I'd like to see changelogs on bugs
<ajmitch> otherwise uploads sit & rot in the queue
<Fujitsu> OK.
* ajmitch has too many keys on his keyring
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, uploaded.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I'll wave it through next time I see an archive admin alive
<Fujitsu> Thanks
<minghua> nice... xchat-gnome crashes
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that's when they dont sit and rot on revu :P
* ajmitch needs to put some dinner on
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you can do something about REVU
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no i cant.  what would i do?
<ajmitch> review stuff
<ajmitch> it's the logical answer
<ajmitch> hello Yagisan
<Hobbsee> nah...
<ajmitch> suggest fixes for peopl
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
<Yagisan> almost finished excising, re-implementing non-gpl code in my project, so hopefully I can get a package in edgy+1
<Yagisan> it was a pain in the arse to audit too O_o
<minghua> I wonder how I can request a package removal
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, ajmitch - so hows uni treating you ?
<ajmitch> file a bug, subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Fujitsu> minghua, file a big `Please remove X from the archive' or thereabouts.
* minghua strongly suspect bug #41533 should be fixed by removing the package
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41533 in mozilla-locale-zh-cn "[UNMETDEPS]  mozilla-locale-zh-cn has unmet dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41533
<ajmitch> give good reasons for removing it
<Fujitsu> And do as ajmitch said.
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: my next assignment is due next week.  all is good :)
<ajmitch> Yagisan: uni? what uni?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, I have a final exam tommorow
<minghua> ajmitch, Fujitsu: thanks, I'll do that when I confirm in an edgy environment
<Yagisan> ajmitch, IIRC you had a uni id card when I last saw you
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that was earlier this year
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ouch
<Hobbsee> hehe, he does
* Hobbsee has seen it - and the picture on it
<Fujitsu> Yagisan, run along and study, then :P
<minghua> (or is there an easy way to check a binary package's dependency, like packages.d.o?)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: quiet, you
<Fujitsu> package.ubuntu.com, minghua?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: :D
<Fujitsu> *packages
<Hobbsee> minghua: apt-cache show foo | grep Depends
<minghua> Fujitsu: is that up-to-date enough?
<Yagisan> Fujitsu, I've not studied yet - and I don't intend to start now - 75% for lack of effort so far is perfectly acceptable
<minghua> Hobbsee: not when I am not under edgy :-)  but thanks
<ajmitch> packages.u.c is generally pretty crap, I've found
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, `generally'? `Pretty'?
<ajmitch> minghua: or you ask in the channel for someone to tell you the dependencies
<Fujitsu> Always and very, I think you'll find.
<Hobbsee> minghua: ah
<Fujitsu> minghua, LP can actually tell you all that stuff.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, ever notice that everything taught in programming class, never ever matches whats in the real world
<Hobbsee> a little
<Fujitsu> minghua: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/i386/mozilla-locale-zh-cn/1.6-0.1
<minghua> Fujitsu: Ahh... Thanks!
* minghua never though of clicking on the version number on the right
<minghua> LP UI is a nightmare
<ajmitch> minghua: launchpad is full of hidden gems
<Fujitsu> minghua, it really is a nightmare, yes.
<ajmitch> as well as traps which will bite your ankle off
<Fujitsu> I just go looking through it sometimes, and find all sorts of stuff.
<highvoltage> I find the launchpad staffers real friendly though. When I get lost they always help without complaining :)
<Yagisan> sometimes it feels you have to know a bug exists before you can find it on LP.
<minghua> I think package wise, I still prefer packages.d.o and packages.qa.d.o
<minghua> although malone is sometimes more handy than Debian BTS
* Fujitsu stares at the `mpd_0.12.1-1ubuntu1_source.changes Rejected' in his inbox.
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<Fujitsu> I forgot the -sa
<ajmitch> common mistake
* Fujitsu is surprised Soyuz noticed that.
<ajmitch> why?
<Fujitsu> I would have expected it to choke and kill itself.
<Fujitsu> LP seems to like doing that.
<Fujitsu> Like OOPSing if a bug has too many dupes.
<Fujitsu> Who knows how it manages to time out for that sort of thing.
<minghua> Hmm, maybe this is not a case for removal, just the locale package out-of-date with mozilla
<Lathiat> Fujitsu: walking the status and doing lots of queries on too many bugs?
<minghua> but nothing we can do here, as the Debian package is also out of date
<Fujitsu> Lathiat, even so.
<minghua> I'll just add the comments then
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: getting the subscribers for all of the duplicate bugs?
<ajmitch> which probably is done by a massive number of joins
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, with only about 250 dupes, it can't take that long.
<ajmitch> so you think
<Fujitsu> Plus it breaks what are the most common bugs completely, so it's sort of important to not stuff up things like that.
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<imbrandon_> moins dholbach
<dholbach> heya imbrandon_
<imbrandon_> Fujitsu: we were both way off on the path thing, but i got it fixed up now for sure, started a new build and i'm off to sleep
<imbrandon_> see ya in a few hours
<sivang> dholbach: we should improve the unmetdeps script to actually tell which bin packages out of a source are the ones broken,
<sivang> dholbach: surely there should be a way for this if the script manages to actully find any
<dholbach> sivang: go ahead :)
<sivang> dholbach: I've done something locally for my usage, but I wanted to ask you if you know if this can be checked without attemptong to install the packages?
<sivang> my script for running iside a chroot looks like:
<sivang> BINS=`apt-cache showsrc $1 | grep Binary | sed -e s/Binary\:\ // | xargs -d ","`
<sivang> for bin in $BINS;
<sivang> do
<sivang>  sudo apt-get -y install $bin  | grep -A5 "unmet dependencies"
<sivang> so you get only those that didn't install due to unemtdeps
<sivang> done
<dholbach> why now parse the output of   apt-cache -i unmet  ?
* StevenK has an unmet deps upload in unapproved.
<sivang> dholbach: right, I'll try that, for myself I wanted to have a script that actually installs them for some tests I am doing (like after fixing)
<sivang> dholbach: hmm, this is easier that I thought :)
<dholbach> enjoy it
<minghua> dholbach: you maintain the glom package in ubuntu, don't you?
<dholbach> minghua: yes
<minghua> dholbach: did you see glom author's new blog entry?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> I'm just busy with stuff and we don't have a policy for SRUs in Universe yet
<minghua> what do you think the chance is for glom 1.0.8 to enter dapper-update?
<dholbach> we release in 7 days
<dholbach> atm I don't really care much about dapper-updates to be honest
<dholbach> don't get me wrong, I like Murray very much and I'll think about it and see what can be done
<minghua> dholbach: no, I am not pushing you
<minghua> dholbach: I am thinking of working on getting glom 1.0.8 into dapper-update once we have SRU policy in place
<dholbach> I'm happy to do that and work on it
<dholbach> but we need the policy first
<dholbach> there's a document on the wiki about it
<dholbach> but nobody bothered to add something to it after our meeting
<minghua> dholbach: I see.  just checking with you, thanks.  I know you are busy about edgy release :-)
<dholbach> Thanks :-)
<dholbach> glom kicks ass and I want to do for it what I can
<kkubasik> According to the wiki I'm supposed to ask here to get my gpg key synced to I can upload to REVU
<minghua> kkubasik: please read topic
<minghua> there is an URL for you to add your key
<kkubasik> alright, I joined the group ;)
<kkubasik> its ok that I upload packages to revu even though were in a freeze?
<minghua> kkubasik: yes, REVU is not affected by freeze
<kkubasik> I'm working on merging a couple different things, but I'm new to packaging so I wanted to get some feedback
<kkubasik> awesome, thanks!
<geser> minghua: it was necessary that a revu admin synced the gpg keyring manually. has this changed?
<minghua> geser: I have no idea :-)  I don't use REVU myself
<minghua> I don't think it changed though.  so kkubasik you probably need to wait a while before you can upload to REVU :-)
<kkubasik> no problem ;)
<geser> kkubasik: I might be helpful to ping the REVU admins to get their attention
<edscho1> Anyone know what the Debian way is to replace one official package to the latest compiled from source? Removing the package first with apt-get will also remove dependencies. Can I make a stub package to prevent this?
<minghua> edscho1: Yes, you can.  You want to look at equivs package.
<edscho1> minghua: thanks :)
<gnomefreak> libflash-mozplugin is non-free as well is flashplugin-nonfree?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bhale> hi
<bddebian> Hello bhale
<bhale> hm, kkubasik is here
<Q-FUNK> http://q-funk.iki.fi/2006-10-19_Eesti_Ekspress_Linutop.pdf
<fowlduck> should i scratch building new packages in an edgy environment and just wait until feisty is available?
<Riddell> fowlduck: no
<Riddell> when feisty is available it'll be much the same as edgy
<chantra> hi guys, how to you make a dpatch patch?
<bhale> man dpatch-edit-patch
<chantra> is it diff -ruN ?
<bhale> no.
<chantra> bhale: arf :)
<sivang> chantra: what bhale said, dpatch-edit-patch will provide you anything you need, you just need to follow it precisly
<fowlduck> Riddell, ok, thanks :)
<bhale> http://blog.brandonhale.us/articles/search?q=dpatch
<bhale> the dpatch manpage admittedly sucks
<chantra> bhale: :)
<bhale> that post was famous when MOTU first started
<chantra> bhale: , actually, I already made the patch in a diff -ruN format
<bhale> ok?
<chantra> can I easily convvert it ?
<bhale> you can copy the header into it from a real dpatch
<chantra> or maybe just user my patch and exit
<bhale> or you can use dpatch-edit-patch on a clean source t ree
<bhale> and apply the patch
<bhale> then exit the shell
<bhale> if you try it, you will get it
<bhale> just have to do it
<chantra> bhale: cheers
<chantra> the trick is to copy the patch into the package directory
<chantra> as I could not get my patch from the parent directory :s
<bhale> it should be in debian/patches
<bhale> (sigh)
<Admiral_Chicago> netsplit?
<LaserJock> lucas: I didn't know you had a 40 node cluster to build on
<LaserJock> that's quite cool
<lucas> I have more nodes than that, but 40 is enough :)
<LaserJock> lucas: is that at your uni?
<lucas> it's a french research project on grid computing, so there are resources shared by different laboratories
<lucas> the goal is to reach 5000 CPUs. We have about 1200 nodes currently (so 2400 CPUs)
<LaserJock> holy cow
<LaserJock> and they run Debian?
<lucas> depends on the cluster. some of them, yes. some of them run ubuntu, or fedora core or rocks
<lucas> but one can "deploy" his own work environment on the nodes
<lucas> so, if you want to work on debian/ubuntu, you just have to deploy a debian/ubuntu environment
<LaserJock> crazy
<LaserJock> lucas: how much access do you have to it?
<lucas> well, I can run jobs on it, and I'm part of the technical committee for it
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I just wondered if we need to do Universe-wide audits it would be a whole lot easier on something like that
<LaserJock> where you did the FTBFS run in 4-5 it would have taken us forever
<lucas> it takes about 10 days on a single node
<lucas> my plans are to improve my tools, and then to run other tests
<cbx33> LaserJock, where are the menu files stored....
<cbx33> i know you did that dynamic menu thing
<LaserJock> cbx33: my menu files or the general ones?
<cbx33> the general ones
<LaserJock> lucas: that's super cool
<fowlduck> how do I report a package for which no binaries have been built in edgy?  It appears libapache2-mod-mono and libapache-mod-mono don't have anything.
<thiagocmartinsc> Hi! who is working on asterisk package ?!
<thiagocmartinsc>  I see that's asterisk.init doesn't manage varrun correctly...
<LaserJock> fowlduck: you could file a bug :-)
<LaserJock> thiagocmartinsc: not sure
<fowlduck> LaserJock: hmm, i can download it manually, erg
<thiagocmartinsc> my asterisk.init is right at this time.. for asterisk-1.2.12.1
<LaserJock> thiagocmartinsc: looks like shawarma_away maybe is the last uploader
<thiagocmartinsc> I see Soren Hansen in the last entry on changelog for 1:1.2.12.1.dfsg-1ubuntu1
<thiagocmartinsc> maybe send an email..  :-P
<LaserJock> fowlduck: mod-mono is FTBFS
<LaserJock> looks like an unmet dep problem from the build log
<slomo> fowlduck, LaserJock: no, just broken apache or apache2... they must be installed both at the same time but one of them is broken to not allow this anymore
<slomo> infinity already promised me more than once to fix it ;)
<fowlduck> ya, found that bug now :)
<LaserJock> sladen: right, it was a unmet dep in apache2-threaded-dev
<Burgwork> thiagocmartinsc: again, bugs go to the bug tracker, along with patches to fix it
<slomo> LaserJock: i'm not sladen ;)
<slomo> poor sladen :P
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> I didn't even see that
<sladen> mooo
<LaserJock> sorry sladen
<thiagocmartinsc> Burgwork, Ok!
<Burgwork> thiagocmartinsc: that way, it doesn't get lost, as Ubuntu doesn't have such strong package ownership, like Debian
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: like Burgwork says, ideally copy the upload to a mailing list, or attach the patch to the corresponding bug report
<thiagocmartinsc> Burgwork, but, on asterisk-1.2.12.1.dfsg-1ubuntu1 found on edgy, Soren Hansen says "create /var/run/ directory if necessary and set proper permissions"
<thiagocmartinsc> but it's not happening...!
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: _what_ is not happening
<Burgwork> thiagocmartinsc: regardless of who introduced the bug, it is a bug
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: what error message do you get?
<thiagocmartinsc> /etc/init.d/asterisk doesn't create /var/run/asterisk like /etc/init.d/ssh ... remember... /var/run is mount at boot.. ok?!
<thiagocmartinsc> I'm talking about the check_privsep_dir() func on init.d...
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: have you filed all of this in a bug report, then we can keep everything in one place and not loose information
<Burgwork> sladen: where is my "irc is a not a bug reporting tool" spec
<thiagocmartinsc> no, this is my first report....
<sladen> I'm not sure who Soren Hansen is, are they the Debian maintainer, one of the upstream authors, another user?
<LaserJock> sladen: it's shawarma
<sladen> LaserJock: ta
<thiagocmartinsc> Soren Hansen is the guy that's upload the asterisk-1:1.2.12.1.dfsg-1ubuntu1 to EDGY!
<thiagocmartinsc> apt-get source asterisk and you see it...
<thiagocmartinsc> :-P
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: can you go to  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/asterisk/+filebug  and include all of the information you've pasted into IRC so far
<thiagocmartinsc> of course!
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: thank you for that.  You can also see the changelog by do  less /usr/share/doc/asterisk/changelog
<thiagocmartinsc> sladen, yes.. I know that...  but I don't have asterisk of edgy installed here... sorry...
<ajmitch> morning all
<thiagocmartinsc> I'm working with pkg-voip-maintainers...
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: right, so where are you seeing this bug if you don't have asterisk installed?
<thiagocmartinsc> becasuse I know that.
<sladen> how do you know?
<thiagocmartinsc> asterisk.init on edgy sources don't manage the /var/run ... so, after a reboot.. asterisk don't found /var/run/asterisk.
<thiagocmartinsc> on Debian we don't have /var/run on a tmpfs...
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: right, so give the bug a title "asterisk.init fails when /var/run is tmpfs"
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: and please, please, please, pretty please, file a bug report
<thiagocmartinsc> Ok man!
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: excellent! :)
<thiagocmartinsc> You don't need to tell me 2 times!!! :-D
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: so, do we have bug number yet?
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: there are people who are happy to work on this, but can't without a bug number
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: and if I asked you again, that would be nagging, right :)
<thiagocmartinsc> sladen, I forgot my password on launchpad..   hehehe
<thiagocmartinsc> in a few minutes I will post a BUG report...
<thiagocmartinsc> sladen, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/asterisk/+bug/67001
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67001 in asterisk "asterisk.init fails when /var/run is tmpfs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: woooooooo!
* sladen checks his lollipop supply
<thiagocmartinsc> sladen, what's up man?!
<sladen> you deserve a lollipop reward
<ajmitch> man, I wish I got rewards
<sladen> are you able to get a copy of  'asterisk.init' before and after you modified them and type   diff -u old-asterisk.init new-asterisk.init
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: having a diff would help us enormously since it shows the changes and can be applied automatically
<thiagocmartinsc> yes.. I have a diff
<sladen> thiagocmartinsc: if you do Add comment  then Add attachment, you can upload it and tick the 'patch' box
<thiagocmartinsc> Mmmm... Ok!
<gnomefreak> how do i update the iso using rsync i used -vPz rsync://server  ~/edgy-desk....iso  there is a -u option but do i need to run the --inplace flag also?
<fdoving> no. --inplace should not be needed.
<gnomefreak> so -vPzu should be all
<fdoving> you don't need -u either.
<gnomefreak> it will update the iso as long as i add the dir?
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: rsync -az --progress is what I use
<gnomefreak> that updated the iso
* gnomefreak looking up -az
<fdoving> gnomefreak: i use 'rsync -vPz --progress --bwlimit=100'
<gnomefreak> ty in 40minutes i will play with those commands
<gnomefreak> bbl gotta get dinner ready for oven
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-20
<Nafallo> I... LOVE... bzr :-)
<Nafallo> hi Hobbsee :-)
<Hobbsee> hey Nafallo
<LaserJock> hmm, my boss just came down but I don't know that he noticed that I was not running OS X
<Nafallo> Hobbsee_: wb :-)
<Hobbsee_> heya :)
* Nafallo sees Hobbsee bouncing around ;-)
<Hobbsee> hhe
<Hobbsee> my connectoin has sucked the past couple of days
<Nafallo> does look like that yes...
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: we're only supposed to work on UNMETDEPS now? :-P
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: and fix bugs.
<Nafallo> *puuh*
<Nafallo> that list looked boring :-)
<imbrandon> heh its not /all/ fun ;P
* imbrandon is listening to Gimme Back My Bullets by Lynyrd Skynyrd [Amarok] 
<Nafallo> and probably has false positives... how can bonfire have an unmet dep? it's a dummy package ffs :-P
<imbrandon> heh doesnt mena all the packages it depends on are installable ;)
* Nafallo logs in to his pbuilder
<Hobbsee> bonfire never built to begin with did it?
<Nafallo> damnit. I HAVE to get my pbuilder.unionfs branch up-to-date soon...
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> bonfire doesn't install indeed :-P
<Nafallo> slomo: what did you think of? :-)
* Nafallo feeds brasero to pbuilder
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: it did. on all arches.
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: ah. right. now I follow :-)
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: you think we should drop the dummy?
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: i dont know.
* Nafallo ponders...
<Nafallo> I think slomo said something about that dummy being for the inofficial repos which had bonfire or something like that...
<Nafallo> ajmitch: can I get a general upload exception for UNMETDEPS? :-)
<ajmitch> that's crackful - there are all sorts of fixes needed
<Nafallo> alright. brasero then? :-)
<Nafallo> Depends: brasero (>= 0.4.4-0ubuntu1) instead of -1 on the dummy.
<ajmitch> should be ok
* Nafallo dputs
<Nafallo> criawips needs libgoffice-1, we have -0. *sighs*
<Nafallo> ajmitch: bug #65451 says you are fixing it? :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65451 in gnomesword "[UNMETDEPS]  gnomesword has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65451
<ajmitch> yes?
<Nafallo> then I can ignore that one then :-)
<Nafallo> I'll set it to in progress and assign it then :-)
<LaserJock> Nafallo: that's stinks about criawips, I needed libgoffice-1 for gchemutils too
<LaserJock> but gnumeric needs the latest goffice so that's what we got
<Nafallo> LaserJock: if we find enough stuff we might need to try to sync it? :-/
<LaserJock> we can't -0 is newer then -1 :-)
<Nafallo> ehm. _that_ sounds like crack.
<LaserJock> we got -0 from Debian experimental
<Nafallo> *sigh*
<Nafallo> WONTFIX? ;-)
<LaserJock> basically
<LaserJock> for edgy at least
<LaserJock> the gchemutils developer also contributes to goffice
<LaserJock> and he said that -0 is fairly unstable
<LaserJock> (hence why it's been in experimental for a few months)
<hub> fortunately we did not release abiword yet
<hub> it depends on it too
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I was going to see if we could have both versions some how
<LaserJock> but it's just a tad late for edgy ;-)
<Nafallo> I rejected it :-)
<LaserJock> but I don't know what I'm going to do with gchemutils in Edgy+1
<Nafallo> bddebian: hi :-)
<LaserJock> I guess I'll try to patch it to work with -0
<Nafallo> LaserJock: we'll just have to see what will happen then :-)
<bddebian> Heya Nafallo
<bddebian> and LaserJock :)
<Nafallo> bddebian: are you going to squash some UNMETDEPS? :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: silly question, of course he will
<Nafallo> in that case I'm pondering what the bed might do to me ;-)
<ajmitch> for every upload, please put the changelog entry for the upload on the bug
<ajmitch> so that it's easy to approve
<Nafallo> Fri Oct 20 03:16:26 CEST 2006
<Nafallo> ah, oki
<Nafallo> so we can't just ask you and get approved? :-)
<ajmitch> no, because I may not be around
<Nafallo> when you are I meant?
<ajmitch> I still want stuff on the bug please :)
<ajmitch> since I have to talk to archive admins when they're around
<ajmitch> a bit too complex I think
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  core duo's dont seem to work on edgy - this one at least
<Nafallo> hmm, I wonder what bug I closed then... :-P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: got a new laptop now?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, core duo or core 2 duo ?
<imbrandon> core 2 duo has an kernel pannic a while back but i thought it was fixed up
<Nafallo> I like torrentflux upstream... he can't receive mail from me :-/
<ajmitch> more Hobbsee_
<Hobbsee> indeed.
<LaserJock> I think I have a core2 duo on this iMac
<LaserJock> or maybe I don't
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: as I asked, new laptop?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: thinking about it, i stole dads
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> your one not quite melted down then?
<Hobbsee> (sorry, connection lagged)
<Hobbsee> heh.  yeah, well.  i got it up to 87C again a couple of weeks ago
<ajmitch> that's not bad
<Hobbsee> no way.  dad's will boot to a dapper final cd, but not an edgy knot 1
<ajmitch> I used to get my desktop box up to 93C before it would shutdown
<Hobbsee> that's just crazy
<ajmitch> that box is dead now, of course
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: the one thing that's suprising me - this laptop isnt hot from general running :P
<Hobbsee> yes, dad knows iv'e "borrowed" his laptop
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, there was some issues with kernel pannics early in edgy, try an RC cd
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: grab the RC release
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'd prefer not to download one :P
<Hobbsee> but i could do that
<Hobbsee> network controller: intel corporation: unknown device 4222
<Hobbsee> that doesnt sound good
<superjon> I just created a package using pbuilder build... and can't find the resulting deb
<superjon> Where do I look?
<imbrandon> in /var/cache/pbuilder/result if you dident change the defaults
<superjon> find ~/packages/network-manager-vpnc -name '*.deb' doesn't give me anything
<superjon> I looked there and it's empty
<superjon> But $? of pbuilder build was 0
<imbrandon> well then look at the path its pointing to in your pbuilderrc
<superjon> Thanks, that was it
<imbrandon> wb Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> NEAT~
<Hobbsee> wifi works :)
<ajmitch> good
<zul> tsk...shakira
<Nafallo> libtulip-qt4-2.0-dev: Depends: libtulip-qt-2.0c2a but it is not installable <-- s/qt/qt4/ ;-). okey to upload if I add a comment on the bug I close? :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: ^ :-)
* ajmitch looks around for someone else to take the blame for upload approvals
<imbrandon> lol
<Nafallo> hehe
* Hobbsee blames ajmitch 
<ajmitch> Nafallo: go on
<Nafallo> ajmitch: thanks :-)
<zul> is it just me or does the hotel doesnt have wireielss?
<imbrandon> I might not have a pony but i have a deer http://federation.imbrandon.com/FeistyFawn.png
<ajmitch> mmm, venison
<imbrandon> hehe
<zul> yeah watch canonical be sued from disney
<Nafallo> lol
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<Nafallo> hej Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> oops, swedish :-P
<Hobbsee> heya
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: \o/
<imbrandon> ello Toadstool
* imbrandon streams a limp bizkit song to zul's speakers
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon
<Nafallo> ehrm..
<Nafallo> where the hell did we get cinepaint 0.20-1-2 from?
<Nafallo> debian has 0.20-1-1.3
<Toadstool> Nafallo: maybe someone who did a dch -i without updating to 1.3ubuntu1 instead of 2
<ajmitch> most likely
<ajmitch> uh oh
<Nafallo> looks like it
<imbrandon> how the hell did it get -1-1.3 anyhow shouldent it have been just -1.3
<ajmitch> imbrandon: depends on the upstream version
<Nafallo> imbrandon: upstream 0.20-1?
<Toadstool> imbrandon: maybe upstream version is 0.20-1 :)
<Nafallo> three answers ;-)
<Nafallo> most be true :-)
<Toadstool> heh
<Nafallo> baah. I wish it hadn't built in dapper, but it has :-P
<ajmitch> yep
<Nafallo> I'll just try to build the damn thing against the new libgutenprintui then. and add a comment about this in the changelog :-)
<Nafallo> Fri Oct 20 04:32:35 CEST 2006
<Nafallo> last bug before sleep now ;-)
<Nafallo> in this time I will listen to myself I hope :-)
<Nafallo> s/in/and/
<Nafallo> I hope this bug is a quick fix...
<Nafallo> my nose tells me to go to bed I think... nosebleed etc...
<Nafallo> FTBFS
<Nafallo> gnight all
<tuxmaniac> Has edgy RC been released?
<ajmitch> yes
<tuxmaniac> boohoo.. An upgrade done. But my nice Human Theme (with brown tinges) which were present durng the BETA release has been replaced by the old Human theme :|
<tuxmaniac> I mean Human Circle
<tuxmaniac> during login
<tuxmaniac> Ugh! Even the splash scren has been changed :-|
<imbrandon> tuxmaniac, yea ubuntu artwork was reverted
<imbrandon> ( not kubuntu or xubuntu or edubuntu )
<tuxmaniac> imbrandon> Oh ok. Any reasons? IMO they were looking cool
<imbrandon> tuxmaniac, basicly it boiled down to sabdfl wasent happy with it and said he would rather have the old then a crappy ( in his opinion ) new
<imbrandon> more details on the -art ML
<tuxmaniac> imbrandon> Ugh oh
* tuxmaniac goes to check the -art ML
<LaserJock> they are planning on having new artwork I think
<ajmitch> we can hope
<ajmitch> they've got a few hours to get it done
<imbrandon> LaserJock, the deadline is in a few hours
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> Hi man.. Looks like the edgy science packages are quite stable :D
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: a bit yes. I think
<imbrandon> hum anyone know if there are powerpc computers for workstation/desktpop from IMB ( other than apples )
<LaserJock> what is the deadline?
<imbrandon> IBM*
<imbrandon> LaserJock, 12UTC today iirc ( maybe it was RC release, i know it was close )
* imbrandon opens kmail
<LaserJock> hmm, well they contacted the doc team to say that they were changing the artwork
<ajmitch> more last-minute changes
<imbrandon> ugh i hate command line gpg , whats the quick way to decrypt a file
<LaserJock> gpg -d ?
<tuxmaniac> "Could not access GDM configuration file" Any idea why this error is happening. I have my gdm.conf file in /etc/gdm/gdm.conf. But wehn i do a sudo gdmsetup this is the error
<tuxmaniac> This is after the upgrade I did recentl
<tuxmaniac> err.. I can see some similar bugs bug 62342
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62342 in gdm "gdmgreeter Failed to connect to socket" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62342
<joejaxx> LaserJock: are you around?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: kinda yeah
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do you know how much space installed whould all the *-dev verions of the packages on the current ubuntu cd take up?
<LaserJock> heh, nope
<LaserJock> a fair amount
<joejaxx> too bad i cannot do : sudo apt-get install *-deev
<joejaxx> *-dev :P
<LaserJock> well, that's not a normal thing to do
<joejaxx> yeah
<minghua> actually the part you usually need in -dev package is a very small portion size-wise :-(
<joejaxx> i will probably go through and pick out the core dev packages that are needed for compiling building programming etc
<joejaxx> minghua: ?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what are you trying to do?
<minghua> joejaxx: you usually only need the .so symlinks and the .h headers, but the part that needs most space in a -dev pacakage is the .a static librarys
<joejaxx> LaserJock: trying to build a list of the most needed dev packages
<LaserJock> needed by whom?
<joejaxx> me
<joejaxx> i know obvious stuff like xserver-dev
<joejaxx> and the linux headers etc
<minghua> $ du -sh
<minghua> 7.9M    .
<minghua> $ find . -name "*.a" -exec rm {} \;
<minghua> $ du -sh
<minghua> 2.0M    .
<minghua> joejaxx: that's an example for you, libgtk2.0-dev in dapper
<joejaxx> oh ok
<imbrandon> ...
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ?
<imbrandon> gftp is gonna make me throw this laptop accross the room
<minghua> try a different ftp client, then
<minghua> filezilla just entered debian unstable
<TheMuso> lftp FTW!
<imbrandon> mc FTW
<TheMuso> Does mc do FTP?
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> on either side, or both
<TheMuso> Ah. But does it do https?
<imbrandon> dunno never tried
<TheMuso> Heh. Lftp can.
<imbrandon> well i only have to ftp to art.u.c so i dont do it often
<imbrandon> hopefully i can get by with mc ;)
<imbrandon> ( and not have to learn something else )
<imbrandon> wow this convo is going as fast as email
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> hh
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Do you get shaped, or must you pay extra for any quota over?
<ajmitch> pay extra
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<TheMuso> Do you have any sites or content that is quota free?
<ajmitch> ok, just killed X
<ajmitch> nope, none at all
<TheMuso> That must suck.
<TheMuso> I at least have a quota free mirror for most Linux stuff, Ubuntu included.
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> we used to
<viviersf> elo ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey viviersf
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<viviersf> going well just playing around with some thing
<viviersf> there ?
<ajmitch> fun
<viviersf> lol
<viviersf> tell me how does a backport work ? does some1 request a backport or what ?
<ajmitch> yeah, a bug is opened against dapper-backports
<viviersf> kay
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, what are my chances of getting a UVFe for a rather obscure package at this stage? It won't start at all, the latest version (released 3 years ago) works fine.
<ajmitch> what is the package, what are the changes?
<ajmitch> if it doesn't start now, then you're not likely to break it any worse than it already is
<Fujitsu> transcalc, and that's what I thought... It can't get any more broken, plus this new one uses GTK2 and actually works.
<Fujitsu> The changes are fairly large, however...
<ajmitch> file a bug anyway & explain your case
<Fujitsu> There's already a bug filed, but I'll put the appropriate UVFe stuff on there shortly.
<ajmitch> ok
<Fujitsu> As you say, it can't break any worse than it already is.
<imbrandon> anyone interested in some 1U rackmount servers? someone in my lug just offered them up for $200 ( has over 100 to sell ) , i can forward the email to anyone interested
<imbrandon> ( rough specs, email has more, but p4 2.8ghz 80gig hdd 256mbram )
<Fujitsu> Not bad.
<imbrandon> yea , looks like a good deal, bunch of cluster nodes from an isp going out of business localy looks like
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'd love to, but shipping would be more than the servers
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, the shipping costs would be absolutely insane!
<imbrandon> well i could always bring one or two to mtv if you really wanted one heh
<ajmitch> yeah, I can't quite fit it in my suitcase ;)
<imbrandon> wouldent want to bring 50 or some such hehe
<imbrandon> yea thats what i was thinking
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> I'll be back in a bit, attacking this with a bigger HDD (which I obtained from an old school computer)...
<imbrandon> man ftp is so slow, i wish i just had ssh access to the DC heh
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, cool
* Fujitsu eyes the three 320GB SATA drives in the primary file server at school.
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> on one drive in the school? no raid ?
<imbrandon> s/on/only
<Fujitsu> RAID 5.
<imbrandon> ahh , they will never miss one from the array ( snickers )
<imbrandon> well actualy only 3 they would miss one
<Fujitsu> Heheh, I don't think anybody other than me would notice. The proper technicians don't regularly check the servers :P
<Fujitsu> If you lose one from RAID 5, you're fine.
<imbrandon> well yea but if there was 7 or 10 in the array it would be nicer
<Fujitsu> True.
<Fujitsu> Well, see you shortly! Hopefully the RC installer won't explode on me.
<imbrandon> yea i'm installing RC on my laptop right now
<imbrandon> hum i wonder if i should leave 5 gigs for osx
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: no
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, ;P
<fdoving> imbrandon: no.
<fdoving> if you remove it i'll remove my osx partition too. it's just a waste of space anyway. I have it installed but i never use it.
<imbrandon> sounds like a deal
* imbrandon formats the whole drive
<fdoving> I'll have to reboot to a livecd, and do some magic.
<imbrandon> yea i'm installing from RC so its not so bad
<imbrandon> just backup my /etc/network/interfaces and go
<imbrandon> ( for easy wep keys recovery )
<fdoving> brb.. livecd :] 
<imbrandon> wow the live cd has lots of atrifacts
<imbrandon> artifacts*
<imbrandon> wonder if it detected the wrong video driver ( the previous edgy install worked ok )
* imbrandon waits for it to finish
<imbrandon> hrm strange
<zorglu_> "apt-get install realplayer" leads to "realplayer: Depends: xlibs but it is not installable". and "apt-cache policy xlibs" leads to "Candidate: (none)", on a dapper
<zorglu_> seems like a broken package no ?
<imbrandon> zorglu_, probably ( but you can also use the one from dapper-comercial that would be better imho )
<Fujitsu> Yay, shiny old 40GB added to existing 20GB, using LVM.
<zorglu_> imbrandon: what is the name of the one from commercial ? apt-cache policy realplayer shows only multiverse
<imbrandon> you have to enable dapper commercial repo
<zorglu_> i already have dapper commercial repo enable and updated
<imbrandon> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu dapper-commercial main
<zorglu_> yeah i have it :) Hit http://archive.canonical.com dapper-commercial/main Packages <- from my previous apt-get update
<imbrandon> zorglu_, realplay
<zorglu_> thanks
<lionelp> zorglu_: it is a known bug that multiverse package is not instalable on Dapper (bug  #58554)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58554 in realplayer "Not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58554
<zorglu_> noted
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning daniel
<dholbach> hiya Andrew
* Fujitsu makes a note to never create an LVM snapshot again.
<Fujitsu> That was a /big/ mistake.
<Fujitsu> initramfs EXPLODED!
<imbrandon> lol
* Fujitsu hugs the install CD... Nice rescue mode, though its LVM support sucks.
<minghua> Hmm, that's the first time I hear bad words about LVM snapshots in this channel
<Fujitsu> minghua, I think they're a great idea, but not if they cause my machine to fail to boot.
<minghua> Fujitsu: definitely.  I am just surprised that you seem to be the only one having problems with it
<Q-FUNK> could anyone check and hopefuly confirm 66821, 66822, 66823 ?
<minghua> don't those require freeze exceptions?
<lionelp> minghua: no, there are only Debian package release, not upstream release (so no UVF needed)
<Fujitsu> Erm:
<Fujitsu> (from topic)
<Fujitsu> Edgy frozen: ALL Uploads need approval
<minghua> lionelp: but we are in deep freeze, and all uploads needs approval no matter new UV or not
<StevenK> Fujitsu: That's right.
<minghua> Fujitsu: maybe technically a sync is not an upload?  ;-)
<lionelp> sorry
<lionelp> I thought UVF with free exceptions
<lionelp> yes, ok, needs approval
<CarlFK> Stani, author of http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/python/spe said he would add the debian/ dir to his sources - is there a page that describes what files he needs, what his responsibilities are, etc?
<Hobbsee> CarlFK: it's highly bad to do it that way.
<StevenK> No, it isn't bad. Just awkward.
<StevenK> Neither Debian or Ubuntu are really okay with upstream also being the Debian maintainer.
<azeem> it's at least discouraged
<CarlFK> huh.
<CarlFK> i figured that would be ideal
<StevenK> azeem: Yes, that's better wording. Ta.
* StevenK notes he was the last person to touch spe.
<CarlFK> so why is it discouraged?
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
* CarlFK clicks
<Hobbsee> CarlFK: see the section on changing the original tarball.  http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-mistakes.html
<pirast> Hobbsee, thanks for the enigmail upload :-)
* pirast hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> pirast: not a problem :)
* Hobbsee should actually do some work, from time to time :P
<zul_> yes you should
<cypher1_> Hobbsee, is there anywhere a list which contains packages that need to be made for ubuntu ?
<Hobbsee> cypher1_: as in, new packages?
<cypher1_> Hobbsee, yes
<Hobbsee> cypher1_: or unmet deps, or what?
<Hobbsee> er, yeah there is, somewhere
<Hobbsee> w.u.c/MOTU/candidates or something, iirc
<cypher1_> do you have the URL ?
<TankEnMate> whats the URI regular expression for a package's "hompage"?
<ranok> hello everyone
<pirast> hi ranok
<ranok> I've been trying to help out Ubuntu, in any way, and I thought that I could comment code
<ranok> which would let me help out in a way that I couldn't screw anything up ;)
<CarlFK> ranok: that seems ... odd
<ranok> why would you say that
<ranok> that way I can see how it's all pieced together
<ranok> and eventually, I could contribute code
<CarlFK> I would think the code authors would be the only ones that could make 'reliable' comments
<ranok> perhaps
<ranok> what do think I should do then
<ranok> I can program in C++, C, Java, perl
<ranok> though I'm not very confident
<TankEnMate> CarlFK, heh :) I have re-read comments I have added to code after five years and thought "which idiot wrote that?" :P
<CarlFK> TankEnMate: I said you could, not that you do :)
<TankEnMate> ranok: find a package that you are interested in and look at the bug list for it.. write patches and submit them..
<ranok> alright
<TankEnMate> probably one of the easiest ways to get into it..
<TankEnMate> you'll learn packaging, how the submit process works.. and get a general feel for how it works..
<TankEnMate> ranok: don't be suprised if you first 10 or so patches get rejected..
<ranok> oh, I'm well prepared for that
<TankEnMate> ranok: just take the advice givn on board and keep hacking..
<ranok> heehee
<ranok> alright
<ranok> that sounds like it would work
<TankEnMate> oh and try and find a package that has an active maintainer rather than an orphaned package..
<TankEnMate> black holes aren't so good on the feedback side :)
<TankEnMate> ranok: do you know how to make packages?
<ranok> .debs?
<TankEnMate> nod
<ranok> nope
<ranok> I guess that's  good place to start
<TankEnMate> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<TankEnMate> that is a good intro, if you know how to code, you should be able to muddle your way through it first time..
<ranok> ok, great
<TankEnMate> also get a copy of the "hello-debhelper" package
<TankEnMate> apt-get source hello-debhelper
<TankEnMate> have a look at the source
<ranok> ok
<TankEnMate> it is a simple program with most the packaging stuff you need to know
<ranok> ok
<ranok> thanks a lot
<TankEnMate> there are some more power tools as well, but just get a good working knowledge of dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage to begin with
<ranok> alright, thanks again
<ranok> I've never worked on a open source project this big
<ranok> so I'm a little over whelmed
<TankEnMate> take small bites and remember to breathe :)
<ranok> yeah
<ranok> be right back, switching servers
* StevenK takes a deep breath, and smashes python-gobject, pygtk and diacanvas2.
<Hobbsee> yes, well, you were crazy to touch diacanvas2...
<ranok> alright, I'm back
<Q-FUNK> bug #66173
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66173 in upgrade-system "Bad sentence:  "...cannot be canceled at any time later"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66173
<Q-FUNK> bug #66175
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66175 in upgrade-system "Usage problems in install partitioner" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66175
<Q-FUNK> what is the correct package hint that the user should have chosen?
<minghua> Q-FUNK: for 66173 I think the person to ask is Kamion as he is the installer guy
* minghua goes sleep
<ChaosFan> u/wg 36
<Q-FUNK> could anyone check and hopefuly confirm #66821, #66822, #66823 ?  minor changes in the debian package to make those modules build again.  nothing upstream involved.
<tuxmaniac> bug 66821
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66821 in rt2400 "Please sync rt2400 (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66821
<tuxmaniac> bug 66823
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66823 in rt2570 "Please sync rt2570 (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66823
<tuxmaniac> bug 66822
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66822 in rt2500 "Please sync rt2500 (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66822
<bddebian> Heya gang
<CarlFK> "You can ask the author(s) to delete the debian/ dir and provide a diff.gz instead. This makes it easier to review their work, and it separates packaging from program source." http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-mistakes.html
<CarlFK> I don't get that
<CarlFK> I would think having debian/ under the same source control as the code would be 'best'
<geser> but often the original debian/ dir is outdated
<thom> CarlFK: that's only the case when the person pushing the package into debian/ubuntu has access ot that source control to keep the two in sync
<thom> otherwise you end up patching the debian/ dir and other horrors
<CarlFK> ah.. I think I am getting it
<CarlFK> if Stani (the S in SPE) added debian/, and then didn't maintain it... big headache
<CarlFK> but...
<CarlFK> if he added it and did maintain it, all would be good, right?
<thom> seriously. over however many years that debian has been going, it's nearly always been awful
<azeem> I maintain a package where there is debian/files left in the release tarball
<azeem> well, maintained, rather
<thom> urgh
<ubotu> Announcement from my owner (Seveas): TheFridge
<Q-FUNK> fridge?
<Q-FUNK> tonight?!
<CarlFK> thom: I'm not sure I understand your "only the case" case
<thom> CarlFK: well, if you don't, you have to rely on the upstream author fixing packaging bugs
<CarlFK> upstream author is Stani ?
<thom> whoever
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<CarlFK> how is that worse than relying on someone else ?
<dholbach> who uploaded ajaxterm?
<thom> CarlFK: what?
<CarlFK> ok, lets start over only addressing the specific situation: I asked Stani "would you mind adding the debian/ dir to your svn repo?" and he said "How could I as an Ubuntu User myself? Where do you suggest. "
<CarlFK> so I am trying to figure out what to tell him
<thom> i'd tell him not to bother, personally
<CarlFK> shouldn't that reply include some reason?
<thom> haven't you been provided with enough reason over the last twelve hours?
<CarlFK> the closest thing I have seen to a reason is  "it's bad, unless <something unclear>"
<CarlFK> so no.
<azeem> well, then include no reason
<CarlFK> I am thinking I am being confused with someone that has the same question 12 hours ago
<CarlFK> given that I am not convinced, that it is bad, and there for not convinced I should not deter him from adding debian/  -  who would it hurt if he did?
<thom> the poor souls who have to maintain the packages
<CarlFK> packages plural - so packages other than spe?
<thom> i am speaking generally. i do not know or care what spe is
<CarlFK> ah - so you are ignoring my "addressing the specific situation" requeest
<azeem> no, it is wrong in any case
<thom> i don't see why you think it makes any odds
<thom> it is wrong *always*
<azeem> or maybe s/wrong/heavily discouraged/
<thom> unless you are both upstream and packaging it
<CarlFK> (09:48:58 AM) thom: CarlFK: that's only the case when the person pushing the package into debian/ubuntu has access ot that source control to keep the two in sync
<thom> and even then, don't do it
<CarlFK> that and your current unless" is why I think
<azeem> thom: it's wrong even then IMHO, unless it is Ubuntu (or Debian) specific as well
<thom> yep
<azeem> CarlFK: ok
<azeem> CarlFK: 1. is this a ubuntu specific package?
<azeem> 2. is that guy in a situation to maintain it in ubuntu?
<CarlFK> 1, no.  2. yes
<azeem> if both questions can be answered with 'yes', it would be right, otherwise no
<thom> where 2 means "will he be uploading it to ubuntu"
<CarlFK> that's not how I understood 2.  azeem - what do you mean by "maintain it in ubuntu?"
<azeem> CarlFK: well, it's no to 1, so why bother about 2?
<pirast> can a motu have a look at bug 38093?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38093 in enigmail-locales "[SYNC]  [UNMETDEPS]  engmail-locales has unmet dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38093
<CarlFK> because I pushed a question about 1 onto my stack
<CarlFK> which is: why does #1 matter?
<Sp4rKy> hi motus
<siretart> dholbach: okay, I just finished a successfull (but somehwat basic) installation with FAI 3.1
<siretart> dholbach: this consists of 2 packages: fai-kernels, which hold install kernels which do nfsroot, and fai itself, which has scripts to setup an nfsroot and do the installation stuff
<siretart> dholbach: do you insist on a full report for that?
<dholbach> i suppose the changes are quite big, hm?
<dholbach> which kernels does it install?
<siretart> dholbach: the package itself just contains kernel configs. it  depends on linux-source-2.6.17 and kernel-package to create a binary package, which itself contains the kernel images
<siretart> so no source is duplicated
<dholbach> sounds like good work
<siretart> upstream is working on making that fai-kernels unnecessary by using initramfs-tools, but that currently breaks fai-cd
<dholbach> alright
<dholbach> I don't think we need a full report for that
<siretart> I think as well, but I wanted confirmation for my 'extrawurst' ;)
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> thanks for working on it
<siretart> :)
<hub> what is FAI?
<siretart> the problem is that I cannot make a working ppc kernel config
<siretart> because I don't have access to a ppc machine
<siretart> hub: apt-cache show fai
<siretart> hub: apt-cache show fai-server
<hub> ah
<siretart> I need to leave now, but if anyone has access to ppc hardware, please try to make a kernel config for ubuntu's linux-source-2.6.17 based on this config: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/fai/people/siretart/fai-kernels-ubuntu/kernel-config-2.6.powerpc?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<siretart> and send that to me
<siretart> basically the work is in loading that config, and checking that nfsv4 and nfsroot is checked
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 1d 11h 32m 20s ago, quiting: "See you in /dev/null"
<zul> !seem zul
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seem zul - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Q-FUNK> *sigh*
<Burgwork> Q-FUNK: ?
<Q-FUNK> nvm
<Q-FUNK> some really sily report over what doesn't even remotely constitute a wishlist item and a user who wants to play bug reopening. :(
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 1d 13h 21m 39s ago, quiting: "See you in /dev/null"
<cbx33> not long till I become a proper MOTU - my key is almost signed ;)
<crimsun> "proper"? You already have upload privs to universe.
<superm1> I notice in universe there are a few packages of actual firmware files included.  What sort of work would be required to get a piece of proprietary firmware included?  Approval from the company to host it in an archive on universe?
<ajmitch> universe or multiverse?
<superm1> Well at this point either would suffice
<superm1> I'd say multiverse probably
<ajmitch> at the very least it needs to be freely redistributable by anyone, not just ubuntu
<ajmitch> to get into multiverse
<superm1> Well redistributable in the sense that it's allowed to legally be hosted by anyone?
<ajmitch> not just hosted, but the license must say that it can be distributed
<ajmitch> pretty much equivalent
<superm1> Ok. i'll have to check the license shipped with it.  What if the license doesn't indicate this, but I can get explicit permission from the company?
<ajmitch> you probably can, as long as they're willing to grant it for all, not ubuntu as a special case
<chillywilly> is it time to go home yet?
<superm1> I'll email them and see whats said then. Thanks
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing
<sandrinah> Woud you know some link to documentation about how to generate new pdiff/DiffIndex into debian repos? I maintain a Debian repo, and i am interested in introducing new diff feature....
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-21
<Q-FUNK> anybody knows how to enable the svn plug-in in anjuta?
<herzi> ajmitch: still around?
<ajmitch> yes
<Nafallo> ajmitch: can I upload a new trivial package after I've tested that it builds and works? :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hi btw :-). I don't think we said that today yet.
<ajmitch> Nafallo: explain what you mean by new trivial package?
<ajmitch> something that has to go through NEW?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I forked dholbach blubuntu-look and made a wave-look of it. yea, has to go through NEW :-).
<ajmitch> then you probably can't upload just on my ok
<Nafallo> hmm, ok. bug+subscribe someone then?
<ajmitch> even then you'd have to talk really nicely to archive admins to get them to process NEW
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> bug+subscribe motu-uvf
<Nafallo> alright :-)
<mwolson> i wonder if it would be useful to have a module for an Apple Remote driver in edgy+1 ... i've made one at http://kilobyte.rcac.purdue.edu/ubuntu already called apple-remote-source
<bhale> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<crimsun> does anyone use lirc?
<mwolson> crimsun: i recently played around with it and got it working with gxine
<crimsun> mwolson: do you mind testing a merge candidate in, oh, 30 minutes?
<crimsun> I'm wading through these src:lirc bugs, and most of them can be closed with a merge
<mwolson> crimsun: it depends on what you want me to do -- if it's bug triage, i don't have time for that atm
<mwolson> if it's just checking to see whether it breaks something in my own config, sure
<crimsun> mwolson: I would need you to test the lirc-modules-source binary package to check if it generates a valid lirc-modules* binary package that can be installed and configured successfully.
<mwolson> i could test the default setup for that, since i ran across some compilation issues with the current lirc-modules-source (though i realized later that i didn't even need these modules), so sure
<mwolson> where do i get the candidate?
<crimsun> give me about 25 minutes
<crimsun> I need to triple-check my merged source package
<mwolson> ok
<crimsun> mwolson: http://tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun/
<crimsun> mwolson: I've verified it builds and installs against linux-headers-$(uname -r) [using -generic] 
<crimsun> mwolson: please test lirc-modules-source (build, install) and lirc (runs). Remember to unload your current lirc modules first.
<crimsun> mwolson: for the record, this merge should close bug 28941, 29641, 45400,
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28941 in lirc "lirc-modules-source package doesn't install the /etc/lirc/lirc-modules-source.conf file." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28941
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29641 in lirc "Can't reconfigure lirc" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29641
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45400 in lirc "uderquoted definition of AC_PATH_LIRC" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45400
<crimsun> and bug 53111, 67258
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53111 in lirc "Unable to build lirc_gpio module" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53111
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67258 in lirc "Source package doesn't build" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67258
<crimsun> oops, and bug 45703
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45703 in lirc "Unable to use modules in dapper" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45703
<mwolson> ok, already found one (probably minor) issue; shall i paste the output on rafb.net?
<crimsun> sure
<mwolson> http://rafb.net/paste/results/MMvwPd22.html
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> I take it you don't have linux-headers-$(uname -r) installed?
<crimsun> it definitely compiles and installs; I need the actual lirc usage to be tested
<mwolson> crimsun: i think module-assistant is supposed to take care of that for me
<mwolson> oh
<mwolson> well, usage of lirc-modules-source is something i can't test, because i don't use any of those modules (dev/input is all i need)
<mwolson> but yes, it does build properly now
<crimsun> ok, can you test the actual lirc functionality?
<crimsun> I don't have any IR device(s) here
<mwolson> sure
<crimsun> also, which $arch are you using?
<mwolson> generic i386
<crimsun> does anyone use [!386] , have an IR device, and is willing to test the lirc merge?
<mwolson> hmm ... lircrcd does not seem to be loading now (added the first line to ~/.lircrc to enable it)
<mwolson> though irw is showing events going throuugh
<mwolson> that could be because liblircclient0 and lirc are now out-of-sync version-wise
<crimsun> I presume you're using lirc_0.8.0-9ubuntu1_i386.deb (and possibly lirc-x_0.8.0-9ubuntu1_i386.deb)?
<crimsun> oh, d'oh
<mwolson> yes
<crimsun> sorry about that
<crimsun> refresh the dir
<crimsun> (forgot to copy over those debs)
<mwolson> after installing the new liblircclient0, it works again, though i had to restart lircd afterward for it to start working
<crimsun> ok, thank you for testing.
<mwolson> you're welcome
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I'm not supposed to sub the archive admins for bug #67280 yet, right? :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67280 in Ubuntu "[NEW]  wave-look_0.1-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67280
<ajmitch> Nafallo: correct
<Nafallo> okidoki :-)
<Nafallo> I'll just wait now then ;-)
<imbrandon> moins all
<Nafallo> imbrandon: gnight :-)
<Nafallo> gnight *. I need to sleep.
<imbrandon> heh later Nafallo
<Hobbsee> hey all
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
* imbrandon sings sesame street to himself and wonders about his sanity
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> ;P
<imbrandon> hoya Hobbsee
<Werdnum> hello
<Hobbsee> heay
<imbrandon> ello Werdnum
<Werdnum> #ubuntu-devel says I should bug you guys to get involved
<imbrandon> sure, we're in a release freeze right now, but read up on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<imbrandon> is a good start
<Werdnum> hmm
<Werdnum> it's not particularly informative
<imbrandon> Werdnum, well what are you wanting to know ?
<Werdnum> the site is very information-dense, however it's difficult to figure out what's relevant to me
<imbrandon> exactly, i'll nudge you in the right direction if you give me a little more to go on then "i want to help" hehe
<Werdnum> I'd like to see something like "so you want to help out with coding on ubuntu" with a step by step or point form list of ideas.
<Werdnum> well, I've done a lot of C#, quite a bit of Perl, quite a bit of C++, and a little on most mainstream languages
<Werdnum> C++ primarily for windows, though
<imbrandon> there realy isnt one, as 90% of ubuntu isnt "code" its packages from upstream code, so if you want to code as in c++ or such your better off looking upstream
<Werdnum> well.. I'm pretty flexible
<imbrandon> e.g pick a program you like ( say your favorate music app ) and grab the source for it , talk to upstream and code away
<StevenK> Werdnum: If you know Ada, I have a bug you can fix. :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<Werdnum> I was just giving you a rough overview of my coding experience -- basically I've used Kubuntu for a while, and love it, and am interested in giving back.
<Werdnum> nah, sorry, no Ada
<PWill> Is the Flash 9 beta going to be in the Edgy repos?
<Werdnum> I can probably figure it out :-P
<PWill> Or will we wait for Feisty?
<imbrandon> PWill, not in the edgy repos its too late but seveas and me both have it in our edgy repos
<imbrandon> Werdnum, great
<PWill> What's the URL?
<imbrandon> Werdnum, we always welcome help
<Werdnum> :-)
<imbrandon> PWill, http://seveas.imbrandon.com
<Werdnum> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Tasks
<imbrandon> is one mirror
<Werdnum> looks promising
<PWill> imbrandon: Thanks
<imbrandon> Werdnum, if your interested in kubuntu packaging and helping squish bugs ( thats actualy one of the things i do too , kubuntu rocks shhh ) first off familiarize your self with deb packagaing ( url to follow ) then start picking bugs in LP and poke us in #kubuntu-devel or here with patches / fixes
<imbrandon> !package guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<imbrandon> Werdnum, if you want more specifics than that i need more info to go on ;)
<imbrandon> Werdnum, basicly hang out in here and there and read those, ask us questions and you'll catch on fairly quickly i'd assume
<Werdnum> mmmmk
<imbrandon> i know its kinda dauting and gerneral but you stated a general goal ( eg "helping out" ) so kinda hard to be more specific untill you kinda drop into a niche you wanna help with
<Werdnum> thanks
<Werdnum> :=P
* imbrandon waves to StevenK
<imbrandon> Werdnum, here is a little bit of info on kubuntu specifics to packaging https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Kubuntu
<imbrandon> just fyi
<Werdnum> imbrandon: is there a bugtrackerof things to do?
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/
<imbrandon> it holds all our teams, bugtracker profiles etc etc etc
<Werdnum> sneaky
<imbrandon> sneaky ?
<Werdnum> ignore my twisted humour
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, ping.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, pong
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ??
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, hi.
<imbrandon> heya
<Fujitsu> I've reproduced that not-installing thing with flashplugin-nonfree...
<Fujitsu> On a complete reinstallation.
<Fujitsu> It never unpacks the .deb.
<Fujitsu> Your repo is stuffed, it appears.
<imbrandon> wow thats strange, works here ( and for a few others ) but i'll check again
<imbrandon> might be messing up on the md5 sums
* crimsun mutters
* Fujitsu wonders what about.
<crimsun> the flashplugin-nonfree trigger
<pirast> Hobbsee, what went wrong in uploading the dsc in bug 38093?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38093 in enigmail-locales "[SYNC]  [UNMETDEPS]  engmail-locales has unmet dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38093
<Hobbsee> pirast: it was being highly painful - wouldnt generate the .changes file
<Hobbsee> etc
* Hobbsee thinks there's something strange in her scripts or something
<pirast> Hobbsee, :-(
<pirast> now i have to find someone else to upload it.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you'd better fix that
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: thanks for offering :)
<Hobbsee> actually, i'm not sure if Fujitsu did it.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, no, I didn't end up doing that.
<StevenK> Ah, it did gen the changes file, it just didn't include the orig.
<Hobbsee> oh yeah
<Fujitsu> I can't find the initial Debian version.
<Hobbsee> using -sa and everything
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hrrm. -S -sa should have been cool.
<pirast> Hobbsee, you downloaded "enigmail-locales_0.9x-20061010.orig.tar.gz" as far as I see..
<pirast> mhpf
<pirast> my fault
<pirast> looked like being wrong
<pirast> could anybody else try to upload it then please?
<StevenK> pirast: Point me at the bug?
<pirast> StevenK, bug 38093
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38093 in enigmail-locales "[SYNC]  [UNMETDEPS]  engmail-locales has unmet dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38093
<siretart> morning
<StevenK> I saw Hobbsee build and install it last night, so I'll just upload it.
<pirast> would be nice.. thanks
<StevenK> Uploaded.
<StevenK> Let's see how Soyuz likes it.
<pirast> I hope it will like it :-) Tried to days in order to get it working with our Thunderbird :-)
<pirast> *two
<palski> I have a fix for Bug #49640, but I'm not sure where should I send it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49640 in xchat-systray "xchat-xsys crash" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49640
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it wont like it.
<Hobbsee> palski: what's the fix, and can you stick a debdiff on the bottom of that bug?
<phanatic> morning
<Hobbsee> hey phanatic
<palski> Hobbsee:  it is a code-fix
<palski> I havent' use depdiff before, where should I go to study?
<phanatic> heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> palski, debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > package.debdiff
<palski> imbrandon: thanks, but how can I build a new.dsc?
<giskard> hello
<jsmidt> Hello, I maintain texmaker for debian.  Texmaker fails to build in edgy.  I have fixed Ubuntu's package.  How can I upload the changes?
<seaLne> jsmidt: possibly file a bug with the diff?
<jsmidt> seaLne, thanks.  I just did that.
<jsmidt> just let me know if you need me to do anything else.  I would like to see texmaker working when edgy is released. :)
<seaLne> it depends on the severity as unfortunatly edgy is frozen now
<seaLne> but if it currently dosen't work, thats bad :)
<jsmidt> Too bad. It really is a minor chance.  One line of code and one dependancy change. :(
<seaLne> Bug #67333
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67333 in texmaker "texmaker fails to build on edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67333
<Fujitsu> jsmidt, can you please provide a debdiff?
<jsmidt> Upload that to launchpad?
<Fujitsu> Yep, attached to that bug report.
<jsmidt> Okay, one second
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<jsmidt> Fujitsu, I uploaded a debdiff, tell me if it is what you wanted
<Fujitsu> ... that doesn't look like a debdiff to me...
<Fujitsu> Try `debdiff first.dsc last.dsc'
<Fujitsu> (replace first.dsc and last.dsc with the appropriate names)
<jsmidt> sorry, I for whatever reason thought you wanted debdiff first.deb last.deb.  I uploaded the correct debdiff
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<Fujitsu> Now that's a little more readable :)
<jsmidt> :)
<Fujitsu> (I'm looking at it now, I'll upload it if it's sane)
<jsmidt> thanks
<Fujitsu> Is that extra dependency necessary? Why would it have ever built if it wasn't?
<Fujitsu> *if it was
<jsmidt> It is necessary in Unstable.  I'll admit I just assumed the same for edgy when building in Edgy gave the same error I was getting in Unstable
<jsmidt> By the way,  Ubuntu Rocks! You guys seem to have pulled off a miracle.
<Fujitsu> I've had very little to do with it :P
<jsmidt> A miracle in the sense that in just a couple years you have set the new standard of what constitutes a great linux distro.
<Fujitsu> Yes, it has been quite amazing.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yay for the modesty.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, I have had almost nothing to do with it! Most of the packages I've touched are practically worthless, and they're all in universe, and all the changes have been very minor..
<herzi> ajmitch: around?
<Fujitsu> jsmidt, it builds fine without that extra dependency.
<jsmidt> okay, If it is not needed that's good to know
<herzi> somehow my uploads to revu don't appear on the revu website
<herzi> do the packages need to pass smoe filter?
<jsmidt> Do you want me to recompile without the extra dependency?
<Fujitsu> herzi, did you add yourself to ubuntu-univserse-contributors, and get the keyring synced?
<Fujitsu> jsmidt, I have done so.
<jsmidt> Fujitsu, thanks
<herzi> Fujitsu: i added myself, yes
<Fujitsu> Now I need to get this approved for upload...
<Fujitsu> herzi, did your request that the keyring be synced?
<herzi> and iirc, someone asked for a sync between my application and my upload
<herzi> so "maybe not"
<herzi> is there a way to check for this?
<Fujitsu> Did you build with debuild -S -sa?
<herzi> yes
<Fujitsu> Which package is it?
<herzi> bioapi, pam-bioapi, bioapi-bsp-upek
<herzi> there's still lots of stuff to do for these packages, but I wanted to have a source upload so others can report their results with these packages
<Fujitsu> OK, you'll have to get a REVU admin to look at it... THe most likely cause is your key not being on the keyring.
<herzi> siretart: ping
<siretart> herzi: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
<herzi> siretart: ping, revu-administration :-D
<StevenK> siretart: Bwahaha, shades of tfheen.
<Nafallo> haha
<herzi> absolutely, though siretart has got a friendlier package around "i don't resond to empty pings"
<cyberquiet> hi, I ran into problems while upgrading from kde 3.5.4 to 3.5.5...
<Nafallo> Fujitsu (n=Fujitsu@h26n1fls33o917.telia.com) <-- hmm...
<Hobbsee> cyberquiet: which problems?  and dapper or edgy?
<cyberquiet> dapper
<cyberquiet> first, the startkde script was trying to start kdeinit by running a nonexistent command called start_kdeinit
<cyberquiet> so I had to modify the startkde script by hand
<cyberquiet> secondly, I was able to update most kde apps without upgrading the kdelibs packages, but this made the apps unusable. after updating kdelibs all seems to run fine
<cyberquiet> apparently also now notifications in konversation do not work anymore...
<cyberquiet> Hobbsee: can you hear me? ;-)
<Hobbsee> cyberquiet: why wouldnt you update the libs with the rest of the packages????
<cyberquiet> Hobbsee:  I forgot to! but I think if a package is essential for another there should be a dependency....
<Hobbsee> cyberquiet: did you use the repository for this, or install the packages individually?
<cyberquiet> I use synaptic
<cyberquiet> with the repositories provided on www.kubuntu.org
<Hobbsee> so the libs would have automatically gotten upgraded as well as the packages, if you'd done a standard upgrade?  that's what usually happens
<cyberquiet> it didn't happen in my case
* Hobbsee has noticed weird stuff with the konvi notifications though - not sure what's going on there
<cyberquiet> have you problems with the notifications, too?
<nightrat> hi
<nightrat> anybody knowledge about building mozilla trunk on edgy? i saw a bugreport about that, there is a workaround mentioned, does anyone know something about that issue? building on dapper with gcc 4.1 works, but fails on edgy with gcc 4.1
<cyberquiet> Hobbsee: it seems kdelibs4c2a is in the dependecies, but kdelibs-data and kdelibs4-dev are not. not sure about that, anyway
<cyberquiet> I was wrong: after looking at dpkg.log I can say I upgraded manually also kdelibs4c2a
<cyberquiet> Hobbsee: anyway, this is not a big issue, anyone could fix that. but the first problem I encountered completely put my KDE to its knees, so it should be fixed if it's a bug
<cyberquiet> wow! now the start_kdeinit command is in my /usr/bin folder! it must gotten installed by the upgrade to the kdelibs, so why not fix those damn dependencies?
<Hobbsee> they should be fixed.
<cyberquiet> Hobbsee: who is the one responsible of packaging those packages
<cyberquiet> ?
<Hobbsee> cyberquiet: Riddell.  you're also the first person to report that problem though
<cyberquiet> but I exclude I am also the first upgrading to kde3.5.5! :-P
<Hobbsee> possibly.  i thought we had more people who have tested that
<Riddell> we did
<cyberquiet> don't know what could went wrong...
<cyberquiet> with me
<cyberquiet> for example synaptic says me konqueror requires only kdelibs4c2a version 3.5.3 or greater, but without upgrading to 3.5.5 it was unusable
<cyberquiet> when i say konqueror, I intend konqueror 3.5.5
<StevenK> So the shlibs file for kdelibs4c2a needs to be tightened, and all KDE apps rebuilt. *Not* cool, about one week before release.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it's dapper.
<Hobbsee> !info kdelibs4c2a dapper
<ubotu> kdelibs4c2a: core libraries for all KDE applications. In component main, is optional. Version 4:3.5.2-0ubuntu18.1 (dapper), package size 8138 kB, installed size 24336 kB
<StevenK> Oh.
* StevenK shuts up, due to lack of knowledge.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and its' just a >=3.5.3 thing, which will usually tend to still work
<cyberquiet> sorry but i must go offline a second, I hope we'll be able to tackle the issue
<cyberquiet> I'm here again :-)
<cyberquiet> no news?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 16h 11m 53s ago, quiting: "Quitting, send all complaints > /dev/null"
<tuxmaniac> !seen sabdfl
<ubotu> sabdfl is on IRC right now!
<tuxmaniac> :-)
<Q-FUNK> :D
* Nafallo adds server-xen0 to a nafallo1 branch :-)
<ecki> hello
<siretart> herzi: and I do read backlog ;)
<herzi> great
<herzi> can you sync the revo keyring please?
<herzi> revu
<siretart> running
<herzi> thanks a lot
<rmjb> hello all, I'm looking at udev, the one in edgy is based on 093-0 but I can't find that version in debian unstable. They have version 092-2 then 093-1, in a case like this, is this a pure ubuntu package? i.e. one that's not synced with debian?
<herzi> rmjb: experimental?
<rmjb> unstable
<herzi> did you also look at debian experimental?
<siretart> syncing keyring finished
<herzi> siretart: thanks a lot
<rmjb> where can I find package info for experimental? on packages.debian.com they list stable, testing and unstable
<rmjb> (I'm new to this)
<siretart> rmjb: I'd say that udev in ubuntu behaves quite differently compared to debian
<herzi> it doesn't get listed there
<herzi> rmjb: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/u/udev
<siretart> rmjb:  http://patches.ubuntu.com/u/udev/udev_093-0ubuntu18.patch is the patch to the ubuntu package, about 2.2mb big
<siretart> rmjb: why are you interested in udev?
<rmjb> siretart: okay, i'm asking because in debian it seems to run at S03 but in edgy it runs at S10
<rmjb> and dmraid, which needs to run after udev runs at S02
<rmjb> sorry, dmraid is at S03 in edgy
<herzi> revu is also for multiverse packages?
<siretart> herzi: sure
<herzi> siretart: can you please delete the *bioapi* stuff from my previous upload attempts?
<herzi> or will they get synced automatically now?
<rmjb> so the sync (or merge?) on MoM for the lasted dmraid doesn't work since it moved dmraid to S05 to run after udev, but that's in debain
<rmjb> s/lasted/latest
<siretart> herzi: queue cleared
<herzi> thanks again
<siretart> rmjb: sounds like dmraid needs to be fixed
<rmjb> yeah, I'd like to take a try at it
<rmjb> so I'm looking at udev first
<rmjb> to start a merge/sync fix, download the updated files from MoM right?
<rmjb> then work on fixing those?
<siretart> rmjb: depends on what you actually want to do. if you want to fix things, apt-get source the package
<rmjb> ignore the new version on MoM?
<Nafallo> *sigh* I need a faster amd64 :-/
<siretart> rmjb: if you want to merge a new upstream from debian, it is helpfull in many cases to apply the ubuntu debdiff from the last version to the new version, and resolve the conflicts manually
<siretart> rmjb: MoM does the latter in an automated way.
<rmjb> okay, I hope I understood what you said... we'll see
<siretart> well, MoM leaves you with the conflicts alone, obviously
<rmjb> I'd like to resolve the conflict on MoM first before doing my own fix, I saw grab-merge.sh, so I'll use that
<rmjb> dh_installdocs 1.0.0.rc9/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}
<rmjb> cp: cannot stat `1.0.0.rc9/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}': No such file or directory
<rmjb> is that an old or new format for the dh_installdocs command that my current version cannot take?
<rmjb> anyone, if I apt-get source a current package the sudo pbuilder build that package it should work right? because I get the above error when I do so
<rmjb> s/package the sudo/package then sudo
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<rmjb> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi rmjb
<LaserJock> oh for goodness sakes
<Toadstool> hmm?
<LaserJock> bug #67441
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67441 in texlive-base "What is added value of texlive packages vis--vis TeXLiveCD from TUG?" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67441
<Toadstool> oh, cool
<Toadstool> I love this kind of bug reports
<Q-FUNK> ?!
<LaserJock> well, what gets me most is that somebody just goes and marks it "confirmed"
<LaserJock> I just never really know how to respond to stuff like that
<Q-FUNK> speaking of this, any chances of someone confirming 66821, 66822 and 66823 ?
<Toadstool> bug 66821, 66822 and 66823
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66821 in rt2400 "Please sync rt2400 (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66821
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66822 in rt2500 "Please sync rt2500 (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66822
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66823 in rt2570 "Please sync rt2570 (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66823
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not exactly sure what the policy right now is for that
<Toadstool> LaserJock: only debian changes which fix the package.. I'd say that this is ok
<Toadstool> (and I've already confirmed the 1st one)
<LaserJock> yeah, but *all* uploads are supposed to be approved by the motu-uvf team
<Toadstool> yeah, true :/
<Nafallo> ey!
<Nafallo> rt2??0 is in our default kernels ffs :-)
<Nafallo> from upstream CVS :-)
<LaserJock> rmjb: just got you mail :-)
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
* ajmitch feels like taking a holiday for the next week :)
<LaserJock> yeah? I've been saying that since July :-)
<kagou> hi
<Q-FUNK> Nafallo: rt2x00 ?
<Nafallo> Q-FUNK: that to. but the ones above are legacy.
<Q-FUNK> Nafallo: if it's rt2x00, then yes, it's the one that should go into vanilla around 2.6.20
<Q-FUNK> yes, they are
<Nafallo> rt2x00 fr rt61 and 7-something...
* Nafallo talks about linux-image now btw
<Q-FUNK> rt2x00 replaces all the above 3 legacy drivers
<Nafallo> 5
<Nafallo> :-)
<Q-FUNK> it's a clean rewrite
<Q-FUNK> yup, plus two rt6x
* Nafallo is on the commit mailinglist ;-)
<herzi> ajmitch: ping (fedora-ds)
<Nafallo> I think rt2500 is what really got me into linux :-)
<Nafallo> hinting people about ralink breaking gpl and stuff :-)
<Nafallo> that made it gpl'd :-)
<Q-FUNK> too bad nobody dared port madwifi stuff to add USB support to the prism driver
<ajmitch> herzi: hello
<herzi> ajmitch: as i wrote in my email: i'd like to get fedora-ds done together with you
<herzi> how far did you get?
<ajmitch> herzi: I started on a few of the supporting packages
<ajmitch> herzi: we're going to be discussing all this at MV - you may want to join the ubuntu-directory team (and channel) at some point
<ajmitch> I haven't spent a lot of time on FDS yet
* Nafallo wish he would have asked ajmitch to borrow his pbuilder :-P
<Nafallo> I've compiled xen-source the whole day on my laptop :-P
<Nafallo> finally got around to add server for amd64 :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: *spanks* hiya! :-)
<bddebian> Heya Nafallo
<Toadstool> hey Barry!
<bddebian> Hi Toadstool
<ajmitch> Nafallo: well aren't you silly
<Nafallo> ajmitch: well, I really do want it :-)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch will be back later
<Q-FUNK> Toadstool: only the 1st one?
<Toadstool> Q-FUNK: uhuh, sorry.. was on something else and totally forgot to take a look at the remaining bug reports
<siretart> \sh_away: RN+   5 ( 11k): 21.10.06, 21:50 [ 223: Ubuntu Installer        ]  Accepted fai 3.1ubuntu1 (source)
* Nafallo tries to understand siretarts message ;-)
<Nafallo> ...and fails miserably :-P
<siretart> Nafallo: \sh has asked me if I was working on fai 3 packages for ubuntu
<siretart> Nafallo: I just told him that they just got ACCEPTED
<Nafallo> ah, kewl :-)
<ajmitch> siretart: using mutt? :)
<Nafallo> aha.
<Nafallo> it's a line from a mailapp :-)
<fatsheep> is the #ubuntu-motu-school channel dead? :(
<siretart> ajmitch: no, using gnus
<rmjb> hey LaserJock i'm back, lunch
<LaserJock> rmjb: heh, I was at lunch
<rmjb_> Happy Divali to all
<rmjb_> or Diwali, depending on your localisation
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-22
<Nafallo> ajmitch: tried running lintian on the binarys from xen-source? :-P
<Fujitsu> If stuff is removed from testing because of long-standing unmet-deps, we should do the same, right?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: don't touch gajim! :-)
<Fujitsu> I was more thinking along the lines of malsync.
* Nafallo cares about that package :-P
<Nafallo> shouldn't be to bad to do some spring cleaning indeed...
<Nafallo> ehrm...
<Nafallo> fall :-)
<Fujitsu> It's spring here :P
<Nafallo> :-)
<pirast> night
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> spambot joined and died :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: no I haven't, but that's not my package to touch ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: they errored out on me so I couldn't upload them to my repo without adding run_lintian = 0 in .dput.cf :-)
<ajmitch> oh well :)
<Nafallo> I won't rebuild them until after I got my server converted either ;-)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I have to poke the UVF team for syncs too?
* Nafallo drools at the Swedish mirrors new server
* Fujitsu eats a swede.
<Nafallo> http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/hosts/linuxserver.html
<Nafallo> something tells me they can push good for the release ;-)
<Nafallo> XenOnEdgy is the correct wiki for getting XEN up? :-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo, should be
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yes
<imbrandon> heya guys
<ajmitch> Nafallo: it'll be interesting to see if you get lockups on amd64
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, bug 67478 is fixing unmet deps.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67478 in gtamsanalyzer.app "Please sync gtamsanalyzer.app 0.42-3 (universe) from Debian Sid (main)" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67478
<Nafallo> ajmitch: oh?
<imbrandon> anyone else watching the world series ? ( /me doubts it )
<Nafallo> ajmitch: bug reports about that or?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: apparantly there's some oddness going on in the mm code
<ajmitch> yes, tfheen has tracked it down that far
<Nafallo> hm, will see then :-)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: world series of what? ;)
<Nafallo> anyway, will be offline in bed :-)
<Nafallo> so gnight :-)
<imbrandon> baseball ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: let me guess - 'world series' comprising of only US teams?
<imbrandon> hahah this time ( but at times there is JP teams )
<ajmitch> figures
<imbrandon> not many other places play baseball pro except US and JP but its not limited
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, you're the god here... Do packages removed from testing due to unmet deps want removal from Ubuntu as well?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> removed from unstable - maybe
<ajmitch> but certainly not removal from testing
<Fujitsu> OK, so just leave them broken?
<imbrandon> no fix em , heheh
<ajmitch> I didn't say that
<imbrandon> ( if possible )
<Fujitsu> Well, unless I can manually fix them, leave them broken.
<Fujitsu> That's more what I meant.
<ajmitch> what package do you want to remove?
<zul> its freaking cold
<Fujitsu> yank and libcharles0 have both been removed from unstable.
<zul> hey btw
<Fujitsu> And a couple of others.
<imbrandon> heya zul, yea its freezing here too, i just turned on the heater for the year
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: right - you asked about removal from testing
<ajmitch> hello zul
<Fujitsu> I did.
<zul> hey ajmitch and imbrandon
<Fujitsu> (there were others that have been removed from testing, but you just said they shouldn't be removed, so I didn't mention them)
<pianoboy3333> When you compile a deb, in the rules in DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS += do you need to add --prefix=/usr if you want it installed to /usr?
<minghua> such patience
* minghua sighs
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 1d 3h 31m 33s ago, quiting: "Quitting, send all complaints > /dev/null"
<lophyte> Fujitsu: you had a question last night about a pic programmer I think?
<Fujitsu> lophyte, I did, yes. Just wondering if there was any software that worked with that programmer.
<Fujitsu> (Linux software, that is)
<lophyte> picprog apparently works with it
<lophyte> I haven't built it or tested it yet.. but in theory.. it should work
<lophyte> picprog says that it is compatible with the JDM programmer.. and the multipic programmer is based on the JDM
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> I haven't used a home-built programmer before.
<lophyte> yup..search on google for picprog, as far as I know there's no debian/ubuntu packages for it
<lophyte> I've never done any PIC programming before at all.. this'll be a new experience for me :)
<lophyte> anyway.. bbl
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's the world series tonight?
<minghua> LaserJock: yes
<minghua> (which reminds me I should go watch TV)
* minghua bbl
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yup
<imbrandon> 7th innning of game one on right now
<imbrandon> ( on Fox )
<LaserJock> I didn't realize it was so soon
<LaserJock> who's playing
<imbrandon> cardnals are kickin
<imbrandon> cardnals and detroit
<imbrandon> in detroiut tonight but tis 7 to 1
<imbrandon> at the top of the 7th
* StevenK notes baseball makes no sense to him.
<LaserJock> hmm, that's pretty good for being away from home
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea, and stl is about as close to a home team as i'll get ( seeing as the royals will never make the world sereis heh )
<LaserJock> StevenK: well I don't get a lot of sports like cricket and soccer :-)
<theCore> Is there a reason why pbuilder don't want to log my built. I used
<theCore>  sudo pbuilder build jfsutils_1.1.11-1.dsc --logfile build.log
<theCore>  but I get no log, at the end
<LaserJock> theCore: play with the order
<imbrandon> pbuilder build --logfile blah.txt file.dsc
<theCore> LaserJock, I did
<theCore> imbrandon, oh, I didn't try that one
<imbrandon> pbuilder [action]  [options]  files.dsc
<imbrandon> ;)
<theCore> imbrandon, thanks, it works now
<imbrandon> np
<minghua> hey, soccer is so much easier to understand than baseball
<LaserJock> not for me :/
<imbrandon> hahah no way, i have no clue about the soccer rules
<minghua> well you need no rules
<imbrandon> baseball is simple, hit the ball run the bases ;)
<minghua> if the ball is in the net, you score
<zul> hah...8-1
<minghua> baseball is so much more complicated
<LaserJock> if the runner makes it to home, you score
<theCore> I have no clue about baseball rules
<theCore> but about hockey however ...
<zul> hockey rocks..
<minghua> LaserJock, imbrandon: ... unless the third out is a force out, or a caught fly ball, etc, etc.
<imbrandon> minghua, wth are you talking about hehe
<imbrandon> zul, whats 8-1 ?
<zul> imbrandon: ottawa/new jersey final score...the good guys won
<imbrandon> ahh
<nixternal> hockey ftw!
<theCore> go habs, go!
<imbrandon> you mean jersey right ? ( damn canidians )
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> hawks baby!
<zul> imbrandon: we are going to have to duke it out
<nixternal> we haven't had a winning team since gordy howe
<imbrandon> zul, hahaha yea
<LaserJock> hehe, hockey is almost as bad a soccer ;-)
<nixternal> watch it now
<LaserJock> at least it's got a little more action
<nixternal> hockey is better than football...at least you don't have no sissy rules to save the star of the team pain
<nixternal> pretty soon the NFL will be a 2-hand touch or a flag league
* LaserJock tackles nixternal 
<LaserJock> college football rules
* nixternal throws a flag
<nixternal> unnecessary like roughness on the laserdude
* LaserJock starts stomping on the other team!
<nixternal> the other team?  there is the home team and the visiting team
<nixternal> LASERJOCK!!! THOSE ARE THE CHEERLEADERS...YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW!!!
* nixternal squirts LaserJock with a water-bottle
<theCore> rofl!
* LaserJock steals the goal post and runs out of the stadium
* nixternal puts his pointer fingers together and extends his thumbs.... |__|
<theCore> LaserJock, can I ask you something?
<LaserJock> sure
<theCore> would you like to support my candidature for Ubuntu membership
<theCore> I going to apply next CC meeting
<LaserJock> ah sure
<LaserJock> what time is it?
<theCore> it not sets yet
<theCore> I think it will be at the UDS
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well if for some reason I don't make it I'll send an email to the CC
<theCore> but I'm not sure yet
<theCore> thanks
<theCore> LaserJock, I got my wiki page filled in, if you want more info about me:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexandreVassalotti
<theCore> I hope my karma score will help
<theCore> I classed #5 in the top contributors list
<theCore> but I doubt it will be enough
<ajmitch> support requests? :)
<theCore> ajmitch, yep
<ajmitch> yeah, *massively* over-inflated karma for those
<theCore> ajmitch, yeah, massive is the word
* StevenK still wants karma for uploads.
<theCore> ajmitch, that why I say I doubt it will be enough
<LaserJock> but you have been doing some work around Ubuntu for some time now
<theCore> yeah, true
<theCore> maybe I'm worrying a bit too much
<theCore> but, it would be nice to have a fan club at the CC meeting :)
<theCore> anyway, the only reason why I want the membership is to become a MOTU, and a docteam member
<LaserJock> heh, so the "move to Jabber" thread seems pretty active
<LaserJock> I kinda feel sorry for the guy
<minghua> I don't feel sorry for him
<minghua> such discussion shouldn't be on -devel in the first place
<LaserJock> I suppose
<LaserJock> I think it's a nifty idea
* minghua is happy that Seveas killed the thread effectively :-)
<Fujitsu> It is, yes, but it's probably not practical at the moment.
<LaserJock> but perhaps not as he was thinking
<Fujitsu> Although it would solve the OFTC debate :P
<theCore> Seveas has always the last word :)
<LaserJock> mhm
<Fujitsu> Seveas is Mr. Community!
<LaserJock> the TB has the last word :-)
<LaserJock> and perhaps Mark sometimes
<Fujitsu> That's more a CC matter.
<LaserJock> yes, probably
<Fujitsu> Only a bit TB-related.
<LaserJock> I didn't think they addressed the issue of having to register your nick before pm'ing
<LaserJock> I think that's a legitimate problem
<Fujitsu> It
<Fujitsu> *It's not much of a problem, but it is a legitimate one.
<LaserJock> I've had users give up and leave because of it
<nixternal> Neither with e.g. x-chat, please stop spreading lies.
<nixternal> gahahahah
<LaserJock> I thought that was a bit rude, but whatever
<Fujitsu> I saw a lot in my couple of months of helping in #ubuntu for several hours a day.
<nixternal> he will flat out tell you...thats what makes him rock, now if we could only get ubotu to @lart him then it would be smooth sailing
<Fujitsu> @lart nixternal
<nixternal> muhaha
<Fujitsu> Darn, only works in -offtopic.
<nixternal> yup
<Fujitsu> I saw a good one this morning...
<Fujitsu>  *       Ubugtu thwacks Abst with a BIG POINTY HOBBSEE OF DOOM
<StevenK> Bwhaha
<ajmitch> heh
<theCore> sometime -offtopic is a bit too chaotic
<nixternal> i think that is a @lart 22 or a 23
<minghua> why is that Ubugtu instead of ubotu?
<Fujitsu> ubotu is just a factoid bot.
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is just a factoid bot. - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> Ubugtu is the everything-else bot.
<Fujitsu> !bad bot
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bad bot - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<minghua> hehe
<minghua> never argue with a bot :-)
<Fujitsu> cafuego's ubotu had that factoid.
<imbrandon> well the problem with jabber is no opereators, think of the spam etc
<nixternal> and you still have register before you can message somebody with jabber as well...i didn't see anyone pick up on that
<nixternal> he made it seem like /nickserv register and what not was a big deal
<imbrandon> and you can do it via the gui in most clients too, i havent typed that in ages ( even irssi )
<imbrandon> well the cards took game 1 easily LaserJock
<LaserJock> seems like it
<LaserJock> I caught the end on Yahoo
<minghua> actually, my first thought seeing that mail is "what about users who usually only have an IRC client open, but not IM client open, like me?"
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<nixternal> i was expecting that, since the cards were marked with not having a chance to win it
<nixternal> that is why bitlbee rocks, i have everything you can chat with all in one winder
<imbrandon> yea i love my bitlbee
<nixternal> i loved my bip and mirror server too, but it went up in a blaze of glory
<imbrandon> nixternal, oh snap you needed me to setup you a bip account, i forgot
<imbrandon> still want it ?
<nixternal> no i didn't
<nixternal> i was messin' with you
<imbrandon> oh lol
<nixternal> im going to try and rebuild this server
<imbrandon> ok
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> man..i had the ultimate bip.conf file
<imbrandon> yea i have bip.conf down to a science now
<nixternal> had all the ssl in place, it was rocking
<LaserJock> you still have to register you're nick via CLI, right?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, in XChat?
<nixternal> i had auto blresets on the newest line, was working on a log parser
<LaserJock> in all clients?
<nixternal> yup
<imbrandon> LaserJock, reg it probably, as its diffent on every irc network ( nickserv isnt part of the IRC RFC )
<nixternal> well you don't have to
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I don't know of any with a GUI for it.
<nixternal> but some people odn't allow unregs to msg them
<imbrandon> nixternal, all of freenode dosent be default
<imbrandon> s/beby
<imbrandon> s/be/by
<nixternal> haha
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> having a baby?
<nixternal> that is what i seen in your respells
<nixternal> im like wth does that have to do with a baby
<nixternal> [22:11:13]  --> jbrouhard has joined this channel (n=jbrouhar@cm-207-192-193-222.stjoseph.mo.npgco.com).
<nixternal> i hate you imbrandon ;)
<imbrandon> i just need a computer interface with my brain so i dont have to type
<nixternal> lord, i could only imagine those conversations
<imbrandon> LaserJock, why dont you invent that for me
<imbrandon> heh
<nixternal> your conversations probably wouldn't make it to us..as you would probably sit there talking to yourself on irc
<imbrandon> hahah
<nixternal> !seen imbrandon
<ubotu> imbrandon is on IRC right now!
<nixternal> <ubotu> ya, he is sitting over there in the corner talking to himself
<nixternal> if i remember correctly, you have a vista install, i would laugh if you got that bug
<imbrandon> i had one, but it got wiped about 30 minutes after i took the screenshots
<nixternal> haha
<imbrandon> ( iirc ajmitch has one too )
<imbrandon> ;P
<theCore> imbrandon, don't you find that people abuses of !ops?
<imbrandon> theCore, what are you talking about ?
<nixternal> someone noted that the 60k in ubuntu bugs is nuts, but i was like dude that is over a 2 year span on a few releases already, i told him multiply that by 10, and that is what vista is dealing with right now
<theCore> imbrandon, are you in #ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> nixternal, also note that Ubuntu includes a whole lot more stuff by default than Vista.
<nixternal> ya
<theCore> another false call like in -offtopic
<nixternal> what is that link in #ubuntu
<nixternal> i don't want to look
<imbrandon> theCore, no i havent join #ubuntu this evening
<Fujitsu> Hahahha. An Archer just got kicked.
<Fujitsu> I like bug 67492.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67492 in mail-notification "No longer launches mail reader after upgrading to etch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67492
<theCore> imbrandon, n/m, it been taken care of
<Fujitsu> Etch... in Ubuntu?
<imbrandon> heh
<nixternal> lol
<LaserJock> is that an imported bug?
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> I presume (s)he means Edgy.
<Fujitsu> I've seen a number of people make that mistake before.
<Fujitsu> I don't know how they manage to make that mistake, but it seems to happen a lot.
<imbrandon> make sure, i've seen lots of people thing "upgrading" to debian was legit
<imbrandon> s/thing/think
<nixternal> so who is going to run the chicago marathon with me tomorrow?
<imbrandon> Hillary Clinton ?
<nixternal> i hope not
<imbrandon> watch out, your talking about the next president
* imbrandon ducks
<nixternal> omg die
<nixternal> i will move to greenland
<LaserJock> well, did you see Andrew Pollock's blog post about finding an ubuntuX versioned package in Debian?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, haha no
<imbrandon> LaserJock, got a link ?
<LaserJock> http://blog.andrew.net.au/2006/10/21#ubuntu_in_debian
<imbrandon> man that would suck if it gets changed by us again ( 1.4.3-4ubutnu5-0buntu2 )
<LaserJock> yeah, that would be very dumb
<imbrandon> heh why would it not just be a new debian version , i can see no reason ubuntu string would ever be in a debian package
<imbrandon> unless it was froma  lazy DD
<ajmitch> originally it was a native package
<imbrandon> ajmitch, still
<ajmitch> in this case it was originally developed for ubuntu
<imbrandon> ajmitch, wouldent it be version 1.4.3-0debian563 then ?
<imbrandon> ubuntu isnt in the version string for native packages afaik
<ajmitch> it often is
<theCore> good night, all
<LaserJock> but they should still have stripped the Ubuntu versioning, native or not
<minghua> I suppose it's hard to differentiate edgy and etch when neither work makes sense to you (which, I would guess, happens for a lot of non-native speakers)
<imbrandon> that would be my thinking
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ^
<LaserJock> minghua: that's why I say "testing" instead of "etch" :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: well, wait when etch is released :-)
* minghua doesn't use codename for testing/unstable either, though
<LaserJock> well, for me stable testing and unstable make more sense
<imbrandon> i do for sid becouse it never changes
<minghua> technically speaking, etch doesn't exist until it becomes stable
<imbrandon> stays in development
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> you know why do we not use that model for our 6 month releases ?
<LaserJock> grumpy groundhog !
<imbrandon> well i mean more moving from sid(grumpy) to testing then after 6months its stable
<LaserJock> how often (in general) does fedora and suse release?
<LaserJock> I find these 6 month release cycles a bit tiring :-)
<imbrandon> suse once a year stable , fedora 6 months iirc
<Fujitsu> I wonder when Grumpy will actually materialise...
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, Fedora is very similar to us.
<Fujitsu> Almost in sync, in fact.
<imbrandon> but fedora is gnome centric too, its sucks that the kde releases and gnome releases arent
<imbrandon> makes it tougher for kubuntu becosue our stuff is generaly later
<LaserJock> KDE doesn't have a time-based release schedule does it?
<imbrandon> yea and its normaly 2 months behind gnome
<imbrandon> for the most part
<LaserJock> I've been increasingly confused/conflicted in the whole Gnome vs. KDE thing lately :/
<LaserJock> The more I get involved with FLOSS in general it seems like it's forcing me to choose
<imbrandon> heh , its a strange animal to try to understand both
<LaserJock> which I don't like
* Kyral walks in for a moment of Zen
<Kyral> Do not focus on the difference between GNOME and KDE
<imbrandon> as they are really very diffrent in not only programing but principals etc
<LaserJock> yeah, but I have to
<Kyral> Focus on the unity between GNOME and KDE
<Kyral> and be at peace
<LaserJock> heh
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> but I don't have time to do both, IMO
<Kyral> As the Perl Monk says "There Is More Than One Way To Do It"
<Fujitsu> Unity, what unity?
<Fujitsu> Project Portland?
<Kyral> In general
<Kyral> Use Lunar thinking....
<Kyral> Wow....I've been spending too much time in Psychology class
<Kyral> This has been a moment of Zen
* Kyral returns to idling
<imbrandon> heh /me has zen too, all KDE
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I've got one foot in each, no zen here
<LaserJock> yet anyway
<imbrandon> heh i was there, untill one day i was using gnome on SuSE and realized that I was using mostly all KDE apps with very very few exceptions , then I thought about the fact that neither Gnome nor KDE were perfect so i used the DE to go with the apps for better intergration
<Kyral> Qt: 3.3.6
<Kyral> KDE: 3.5.5
<Kyral> kde-config: 1.0
<imbrandon> thats just my 0.2c
<imbrandon> Qt: 3.3.6
<imbrandon> KDE: 3.5.5
<imbrandon> kde-config: 1.0
<Kyral> hmmm
<Kyral> Very good...you are using the new Konversation
<Kyral> But yah...quite frankly KDE 4 is gonna blow GNOME outta the water
<imbrandon> Kyral, yea
* Fujitsu hugs GNOME.
<Kyral> Quite frankly...GNOME is good...except for GConf
<Kyral> GConf reminds me of the Registry
<Kyral> and makes me shudder
<Fujitsu> Kyral, it's similar, just different.
<Fujitsu> It is scarily similar, though.
<LaserJock> I some of both and dislike some of both
<LaserJock> so I just end up running both
<LaserJock> Gnome and KDE that is, not gconf and registry
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I like a lot of KDE apps, I just find they don't look so great and KDE seems kinda unpolished to me in looks
<imbrandon> LaserJock, well thats one thing about kde, it can look like anything
<imbrandon> the themes are much more customizable than gnome imho
<LaserJock> but they all stink for me
<LaserJock> I've tweaked and tweaked, and never got a desktop I liked the look and feel of better then the default Gnome desktop
<imbrandon> heh make one ;) klearlooks looks exactly liike gnome clearlooks ;)
<LaserJock> well, it's not exactly just the theme though
<LaserJock> it's got like screen artifacts and weirdnesses
<imbrandon> well alot of its what your used to, gnome is more like osx and kde more like windows ( in more ways than just layout )
<imbrandon> LaserJock, wow i've never noticed that
<LaserJock> it always just feels like it's 3/4 done
<imbrandon> i get screen artifacts in gnome
<imbrandon> hehe but each has their own reasons
<imbrandon> and both are good, its just a matter of prefrence
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, GNOME's interface is a whole lot more polished, yes...
<Fujitsu> But KDE absolutely rocks in a number of areas.
<imbrandon> well i just feel like i'm on a closed program when in gnome persoanly becouse there is so much i cant change even if i want to without recompiling
<imbrandon> and then only if i have the skill to code/change what i'm wanting
<LaserJock> I've had a couple time where I found a gnome app lacking configurability
<LaserJock> but it's pretty rare
<imbrandon> well not just the apps but the DE its self too
<LaserJock> but it's really annoying when it happens
<LaserJock> well, I never change anything ;-)
<imbrandon> heh thats one way kde shines, EVERYTHING just about nis configureable
<imbrandon> very very very little isnt
<LaserJock> right
<imbrandon> but thats also a downfall if not done right too, as in config dialogs are scary
<Fujitsu> But KDE is ugly and cluttered, IMO.
<LaserJock> my problem is I configure the snot out of it and it still looks not as good as a default Gnome
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, it /can/ be if not done right
<imbrandon> but for the most part no
<Fujitsu> GNOME's interface is just so nice and clean.
<minghua> LaserJock: when you say lacking configurability, that's even after you poking around in gconf?
<minghua> (that really sucks, I agree)
<LaserJock> I don't poke around in gconf
<imbrandon> poking gconf isnt configurability ( thats like regedit )
<minghua> LaserJock: sometimes you have to :-)
<LaserJock> I haven't opened gconf-editor in years
<LaserJock> it "Just Works" for me
* chillywilly has just learned to live with the defaults and even likes the original 'spatial' behaviro of nautilus these days
<minghua> well, I still find gconf having fewer options than KDE configuration center (whatever that is called) :-)
<chillywilly> bahavior*
<LaserJock> sure, there's no doubt that KDE is more configurable
<imbrandon> kde system settings ;)
<LaserJock> my point is in Gnome I don't need configurability since it just works by default
<LaserJock> KDE gets close for sure
<LaserJock> but I find it frustrating to spend a week tweaking my desktop
<LaserJock> and even then I get weirdnesses
<minghua> KDE is good, I won't deny it.  It just doesn't suit me
<imbrandon> well the defaults are dreat for most things, but tweaking your desktop for a week and having ti do what you want is great
<LaserJock> but man KDE has got some sweet stuff
<imbrandon> then not tweaking it and not having it done the way i want
<imbrandon> i feel so closed off that way
<chillywilly> the more you configure things the more it is a pain in the ass when you move to a different env
<imbrandon> chillywilly, well if it work why move, thats my thing ( and backing up /home isnt hard )
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that's my point though, I tweak KDE for a week and it still doesn't seem as good as Gnome is by default
<chillywilly> like use someone else's desktop or rebuild your box, etc.
<LaserJock> s/good/nice/
<LaserJock> KDE *is* good
<LaserJock> I just don't find it as nice as Gnome :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, and see if feel the exact opsite but the only probelm is gnome i cant make it the way i want
<chillywilly> lots of people cried bloody murder when gnome took away all the options
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder why that is
<chillywilly> frankly, I just don't miss them anymore
<minghua> speaking of rebuilding box and change settings, it KDE's setting in a centralized place?
<imbrandon> minghua, /home/users/.kde
<minghua> I put my .bashrc, .vimrc, .muttrc etc. in SVN
<imbrandon> ~/.kde
<minghua> but I find GNOME's settings pretty scattered
<Lathiat>   61 N   Oct 21 Samir van de Sa (  27) move the ubuntu irc channels to jabber ?
<chillywilly> I belive they use the good ol' conf files....yea I've been meaning to put my /home, etc. in svn
<LaserJock> I'd bzr it
<imbrandon> bzr rocks
<chillywilly> don't really know bzr
<imbrandon> think svn-ng
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> it does everything svn does ( even import / export svn )
<imbrandon> pluss all the bzr goodness
<LaserJock> bzr is really nice for local things like doing revision control/back ups on /etc
<LaserJock> very easy too since you don't have a repo
<LaserJock> you just tar up the .bzr dir and you're backed up
* imbrandon hides
<chillywilly> no time to to learn another RCS
<imbrandon> chillywilly, there is no learning thats what i'm saying, s/svn/bzr and your good
<imbrandon> any of the extras are optional but the basic commands are exactly the same
* Hobbsee attacks imbrandon with her long pointy stick of DOOM!
<ajmitch> oh dear, Hobbsee's here
* imbrandon hugs Hobbsee in hopes he dosent get attacked anymore
<imbrandon> brb more mt dew
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it won't work
<minghua> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> ajmitch, probably not hehe but i gotta try
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> hmm, another KDE'er
<minghua> I usually postpone learning a new RCS tool until I need one, there are just too many
<imbrandon> yea Hobbsee where were you ~15 minutes ago trying to get LaserJock 100% kdeized
<LaserJock> I hate discussing these kinds of things in here but I value your opinions
<imbrandon> well as long as it dosent turn into a flame war i like it too, as there is merits for both
<minghua> the GNOME vs. KDE discussion in this channel is the sanest I've seen
<imbrandon> my choice is KDE, dosnet make it right for everyone
<imbrandon> but i'll still advocate it ;)
<LaserJock> well, I'm interested in the differences in development too
<LaserJock> being a scientist with not a ton of programming background I'm not sure how to evaluate them as development platforms
<imbrandon> well development wise its a whole nother animal, here is what i've found, kde has librarys for every thing from http access to fb drawing, gnome you basicly only have the widgest and everything else is from scratch
<imbrandon> s/st/ts
<minghua> I suppose for science applications Qt is the definite choice for development
<minghua> as they have windows/mac/linux
<LaserJock> I've started working on a gnome chemistry library/collection of apps
<LaserJock> and it seems awfully scattered
<LaserJock> but then maybe that isn't such a bad thing sometimes
<LaserJock> if desktop integration and consistency wasn't such a nice thing I'd say "screw the desktops" and go DE neutral
<hub> KDE is better API than Gnome
<hub> Gnome has better/saner UI than KDE
<Fujitsu> GNOME's UI is just so clean...
<Fujitsu> But KDE is flexible.
<hub> Fujitsu: it is because they thought user
<LaserJock> hub: why is the KDE API better?
<hub> Fujitsu: KDE is *messy*
<hub> LaserJock: because it does not try to reimplement an object model in C
<LaserJock> ah
<hub> LaserJock: you don't have to write 150LOC in C to subclass a widget
<hub> but Gnomers dislike C++
<LaserJock> hmm, the Gnome app I'm working on is C++
<LaserJock> so I guess I got lucky
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> python ftw
<hub> written in Gtkmm?
<LaserJock> no
<hub> imbrandon: Python? sorry I have to laugh
<minghua> I suppose GNOME API is about as sane as you can get from C? :-)
<imbrandon> hub, laugh all you want
<imbrandon> linux is about choice ;)
<hub> minghua: you can make saner in C
<Fujitsu> gtkmm is good.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: *grin*
<hub> imbrandon: well lets talk about memory usage then
<hub> too much choice kill the choice
<LaserJock> hub: has Gnome ever discussed moving to C++?
<imbrandon> hub, memory useage isnt one of my concerns ;)
<minghua> hub: I know you are a good programmer, I'll take your work for it then :-)
<hub> LaserJock: it wil be a massive NO
<imbrandon> if it was i would use asm ;)
<hub> LaserJock: they'd rather switch to C#
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<Fujitsu> hub, are you serious?
<hub> Fujitsu: about C#?
<hub> hell yeah
<imbrandon> c# is nice, but i find it amusing you laugh at python but like c# ;)
<imbrandon> anyhow bbiab
<hub> imbrandon: memory usage should be your concern when it comes to deploy on old hardware
<hub> "Linux use less memory than $OS" is a myth
<hub> a total myth
<hub> imbrandon: I never said I like C#
<imbrandon> hub, if its older than 2 years then i dont really care tbh
<hub> imbrandon: I said they'd switch to C# rather than C++
<hub> *they* ain't me
<hub> imbrandon: that is the problem
<imbrandon> not for me
<imbrandon> maybe for you
<imbrandon> ;)
<hub> imbrandon: i replaced my laptop after 5 years
<hub> FIVE
<hub> because it broke
<imbrandon> great
<imbrandon> and?
<LaserJock> well, so far I've only written apps for myself and they are small so Python is great
<LaserJock> I couldn't care less about memory for me personally
<LaserJock> but if I was developing an app for others I'd probably think about it a bit
<imbrandon> i have a 333mhz 96mb ram dapper server that run python apps quite happily
<hub> imbrandon: and apparently developers think that resources are cheap for *everybody* which is not the case
<hub> imbrandon: dapper server.
<hub> imbrandon: I'm talking about desktops
<imbrandon> hub, i dont live in the past , if its more older than what was $500 two years ago then thats not my ( nor Ubuntu's target ) try xubuntu
<imbrandon> anyhow REALLY gone bbiab
<hub> whatever
<hub> this is exactly what I'm saying
<hub> most devs don't give a sh*t to resources
<hub> and I see that on some bad choices made with Ubuntu
<imbrandon> no i do, but i'm not gonna worry aobut not compiling on a m68k or a commadore 64
<Fujitsu> Like?
<Fujitsu> Mono?
<imbrandon> that hold back inovation
<hub> Fujitsu: like writting every user application in Python
<imbrandon> 2 year old $500 hardware is not a great "top end"
<hub> including bzr
<hub> imbrandon: innovation my *ss
<hub> imbrandon: you speak like a marketdroid
<LaserJock> yeah, my problem is I'd probably favor doing things in Python because I can do it much faster and have more features
<imbrandon> hub, and you speak like a old hardware GNU elitest ? and ?
<crimsun> (civil, please)
<hub> imbrandon: no I'm not. I just disagree with you
<imbrandon> sorry i was totaly wrong for that, i appolgise
<imbrandon> but 2 year old hardware that was $500 at the time is not a high "top end" imho and you will have a tough time convinceing me otherise
<imbrandon> for desktops
<LaserJock> fine, we have different types of people, that's cool
<LaserJock> we need people focused on memory issues
<hub> it is like the Evolution developer that consider SpamAssassin as a good "client-side" antispam
<hub> when it take fifteen seconds to check a single message
<imbrandon> you have to draw the line somewhere and expect that a c64 isnt goona be a viable desktop , i personaly choose ubuntus target of 2 year old 500$ systesm as my target, its not for everyone , but nor is every OS
<hub> imbrandon: c64, that's over 20 year old. were you born at time?
<whiprush> I had one!
<Fujitsu> I still have a working one :)
<imbrandon> a c64 was my first computer, well actualy a vic 20 was then c64
<imbrandon> ;)
<hub> LaserJock: yeah in Gnome there are people spending a lot of time for that and all get discarded because they put something else that waste memory with its interpreter
<StevenK> My first computer was a TRS-80.
<hub> ti99/4a
<hub> so what's the point
<hub> 128MB is 2048 time the memory the c64 had, and no decent linux distro run it decently
<imbrandon> depends on what you want to do with the hardware, as i said i have a dapper box with 96mb ram running happily
<imbrandon> if you mean "desktop" yea 128mb ram is far to old
<chillywilly> lallaalla
<hub> I mean DESKTOP
<hub> 128MB should be plain enough
<hub> but not with python sucking all the juice
<imbrandon> you do know that even as far back as breezy ubuntu recomended 256mb ram?
<imbrandon> if you have 128 you need to look into "alternative" desktops such as fluxbox or xubuntu or DSL
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedHardwareMetric
<chillywilly> neither KDE nor Gnome will run with that little RAM
<LaserJock> I think they will
<LaserJock> just not very fast
<chillywilly> ok, they won't be "usable"
<chillywilly> they will be slow as molasses
<Fujitsu> chillywilly, they're not, actually.
<Fujitsu> GNOME runs OK
<chillywilly> I know from experience
<LaserJock> I ran Gnome on a 333MHz with 128 MB Ram for some time
<LaserJock> it was an older version
<chillywilly> I had old computers back in the day and the modern linux desktop forced me to upgrade
<hub> imbrandon: xubuntu? haha
<LaserJock> but firefox worked ok
<hub> imbrandon: even in 256MB it does not run properly
<LaserJock> OO.o took some time to load though
<minghua> LaserJock runs OOo on a 128MB machine? wow.
<LaserJock> used to
<LaserJock> even firefox and OOo at the same time ;-)
<minghua> yeah, s/runs/ran/
<minghua> damn grammar.
<crimsun> if you have a ton of swap, sure
<minghua> I assume that's firefox 1.0.x and OOo 1.0.x then
<LaserJock> yeah
<chillywilly> well, I used to live with it too for a while...I don't have a single system with less than 512MB RAM....most have 1GB RAM
<imbrandon> ...
<crimsun> I'm getting by on 512 MB. Painful at times but mostly tolerable.
* StevenK has 1.5Gb in his amd64 desktop, which is *nice*.
<imbrandon> i have 512 in my laptop with kde and its not so bad
<StevenK> 256Mb on the laptop is a little painful.
<imbrandon> desktop has 1.5 though
<Fujitsu> Currently running KDE on here with 1GB, it's great.
<LaserJock> crimsun: 512 MB is painful?
<LaserJock> crimsun: what kind of apps?
<crimsun> epiphany-browser, xfce-terminal, quodlibet, vlc
<crimsun> xfce4-terminal, even
* StevenK notes quod sucks RAM.
<crimsun> likely due to my library and not quod, though
<StevenK> 370Mb or so, here.
<StevenK> Which is just over what Firefox is using with ten tabs open.
<LaserJock> hmm, I've been working on a machine with 256MB and it's not bad
<crimsun> err, I neglected to mention that I'm using xfwm's compositor
* StevenK is pondering switching from Quod to Rhythmbox
<LaserJock> my laptop right now has 512MB and I'm using 296 with xchat, gnome-terminal, nautilus, Firefox (with 4 tabs) and OO.o open
<crimsun> i've tried switching away from quod libet, but its search is just too darned powerful
<Fujitsu> Ah. OO.o.
<StevenK> Then again, I'm a whole 188 bytes into swap.
<LaserJock> I wouldn't even bother with swap with anything more then 512MB
<StevenK> Better to be safe than OOM-killed.
<LaserJock> but maybe my requirements are light, I didn't think so exactly though
<LaserJock> I've got no swap on my iMac (1 GB ram) although I might make a swap file
<LaserJock> I couldn't figure out how to get a swap partition on this last install of edgy :/
<LaserJock> I wonder if bootcamp messed something up
<LaserJock> crimsun: btw, thanks for the "Thinking in C++" reference
<crimsun> np
<crimsun> bruce e. rocks.
<LaserJock> I'm enjoying the discussion of object oriented programming
<LaserJock> coming from a Fortran background, OOP is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around
<minghua> crimsun: I want to thank you for the "beginning python" reference, too :-)
<crimsun> np
<imbrandon> i just want to thank crimsun for rockin ;)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> uber-MOTU and prince of programming :-)
<crimsun> bddebian rocks; I'm just a ponyphiliac
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> anyone bored and wanna waist 5 minutes laughing ( and has flash installed ) http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/flash/windoz.swf
* imbrandon gets back On Topic now
<LaserJock> that's got some funny stuff
<imbrandon> heh i like the run the best
<imbrandon> or the sign into msn
<LaserJock> brb
<Fujitsu> Evil migrating OK button!
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> crimsun, i found this to be helpfull in learning the basics of any lang too http://forums.programming-designs.com/viewtopic.php?pid=3482
<imbrandon> not really lang specific but applies to all when starting off
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *g*
* StevenK found himself debugging Ada yesterday.
* StevenK shivers.
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon was debuging perl today for most of the morning
<StevenK> Oh Perl is fine, I can debug that easily.
<imbrandon> i can if its my code, i ahve problems with someone elses though
<imbrandon> heh
* StevenK is employed as a Perl coder.
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<imbrandon> i should have poked you then, probably would have only taken 5 munutes heh
<imbrandon> but i got it done now
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> imbrandon: Only if you can match my going rate. :-P
<imbrandon> hahaha doubtfull
<imbrandon> well maybe if you broke into 5 minutes hehe
<imbrandon> i should have stuck some money away before the dot com boom heheh i had a NICE going rate back then for about 2 years
<imbrandon> but you live and learn ;)
* imbrandon was a cold fusion programer @ ~$75 UDS an hour from 98 to 2000 
<StevenK> imbrandon: You poor bastard.
<imbrandon> that would never fly in todays market
* LaserJock was a college student
<StevenK> Like Cold Fusion is coding anyway.
<LaserJock> and has been forever
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> its coding as much as php is ( that i've moved to now )
<StevenK> PHP isn't either.
<imbrandon> s/UDS/USD
<imbrandon> no html isnt , php is
<StevenK> No PHP isn't.
<imbrandon> howso ?
<imbrandon> if it can process logic its programing imho
<StevenK> PHP is over used, over abused, and embedding Java-esque code in HTML doesn't make it code.
<imbrandon> maybe not asm but php is as much programing as perl or python
<imbrandon> hahah most of the php stuff i do isnt embeded in html or even used on the web
* StevenK twitches.
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I'm staying blissfully ignorant of PHP for now
<imbrandon> php is simple to pickup for web stuff if you know any c++ at all
<imbrandon> thats the best part of it
<imbrandon> other than that there are usaly better tools
<imbrandon> for vaious jobs
<imbrandon> but php syntax and use is almost exactly like c++ only webcentric
<imbrandon> more soda brb
<imbrandon> ( and no compiling )
<LaserJock> imbrandon: dude, you just need a Mt. Dew IV drip
<nixternal> and a swift kick in the
<nixternal> hey, whats up
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha if they made them i would be the first in line
<ajmitch> imbrandon: how much do you go through a day?
<imbrandon> i just need a fridge closer to the computer
<ajmitch> and I thought I was bad...
<imbrandon> ajmitch, mt dew ? if cans about a case, if 2 liters about 3
<ajmitch> though at the moment I usually go a few days between drinks
<ajmitch> rather than several a day
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I've had to cut way back on soda because my teeth are really bad
<StevenK> imbrandon: A case is 24 375ml cans?
<imbrandon> StevenK, yea
<StevenK> *Jesus*
<Hobbsee> 9L.  strike!
<StevenK> That's 9L
* StevenK high fives Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> StevenK: :D
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes, that's quite insane
<imbrandon> i drink the hell outa mt dew ;)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: clearly you havent seen the picture
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I haven't
* nixternal is watching "Customer Centric Web Decision Making" video
<StevenK> imbrandon: Do you have a direct sales line to PepsiCo or something?
<imbrandon> lol no i wish, i tried to get them to put a machine in my house
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: StevenK http://buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/misc/mt_dew.jpg
<imbrandon> they said no
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: and please remove that terrible, evil hackergotchi of me
<nixternal> and that was empty
* StevenK twitches
<ajmitch> ooh, hackergotchi?
<StevenK> Ohhh, Hobbsee has a hackergotchi?
* ajmitch has to see!
* StevenK too
<StevenK> !
<Hobbsee> it's very crap, so for all intents and purposes i dont.
<ajmitch> found it!
<StevenK> ajmitch: Share!
<LaserJock> ajmitch: where
* Hobbsee attacks ajmitch with her long pointy stick of doom
<ajmitch> amazing, all her hair is chopped off in this :)
<Hobbsee> they stole my hair :(
<Hobbsee> yeah :(
<ajmitch> http://buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/misc/hobbsee_gotchi.png
* Hobbsee notes that elkbuntu's hackergotchi is slightly better.
<Hobbsee> doesnt look so weird
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: don't worry, I haven't shared the photos from when I was visiting :)
<StevenK> Hah
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'd better not.  i know where you live, remember
<imbrandon> heh i dident move it in time
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: what's elkbuntu's name?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: vaguely
<ajmitch> LaserJock: melissa draper
<Hobbsee> and i know where you'll be in january
<imbrandon> LaserJock, melissa drapper
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: melissa
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you know where I *might* be in january
<cypher1_> Hobbsee, hi!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: pia will eat you alive if you dotn come, i expect
<Hobbsee> hi cypher1_
<elkbuntu> o.O
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you really want me to remove it ?
<imbrandon> heya elky !!
<LaserJock> nooooo
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes please
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: fine - pay for my flights & arrange time off work for me
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, gone
* StevenK scps it back.
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> come on, I haven't seen it yet
<imbrandon> crap i forgot about all my junk on buntudot.org/people/....
<StevenK> Too late!
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hehe
* Hobbsee huggles elkbuntu 
<LaserJock> ah I didn't relate elkubuntu = melissa drapper, cool
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hmmm
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yup and be nice or she'll poke you with a Hobbsee stick at MTV
<imbrandon> lol
* Hobbsee wont be at MTV
<zakame> Hobbsee stck?
* StevenK saves Hobbsee's hackergotchi for blackma^Wbargaining.
<nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/screenshots/ponies1.png
<nixternal> ghahahaha
* Hobbsee really knows where StevenK lives.
<Hobbsee> zakame: my long pointy stick of doom
<StevenK> nixternal: This doesn't suprise me, given what imbrandon drinks.
<imbrandon> nixternal, yea thats old ( as with the rest of the stuff there )
<nixternal> i remember when you did that
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: thanks for the planet post on the survey, I hadn't noticed it before :-)
<nixternal> he drinks mt. dew, not lsd
<Hobbsee> isnt that theme terrible!
<zakame> Hobbsee: ooh, a very loong stick I imagine :P
<imbrandon> i need to just rm -rf it as i use imbrandon,com more nowe
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, heh. yeah.. i was sort of a bit late with doing that :(
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you don't really know where I live, btw
<ajmitch> hello elkbuntu
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: more that i dont remember
<Hobbsee> zakame: and *very* pointy
<ajmitch> either one works
<Hobbsee> true that
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, you could at least let me see your hackergotchi :(
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i thought they posted a link
<Hobbsee> oh, i'ts gone now
<zakame> haha
* StevenK lala's quietly.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you said for me to remove it
<imbrandon> so i did
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
<imbrandon> silly goose
* Hobbsee ignores StevenK 
<StevenK> Aww
<imbrandon> but i bet StevenK or ajmitch has a copy
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> I don't
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 steven users 17K 2006-10-22 16:17 hobbsee_gotchi.png
<StevenK> Nope. :-P
<imbrandon> imbrandon@gobstopper:~/public/misc$ mv hobbsee_gotchi.png h.c
<imbrandon> imbrandon@gobstopper:~/public/misc$ rm h.c
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i need to make her a better one "with hair"
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> I for some reason get the feeling that Kontact isn't great at handling large amounts of mail...
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: indeed.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: do the same for me, ok? :-)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i have about 10k message in kontact
<Fujitsu> I tried to delete 40000 messages from an IMAP server in the US, and it sort of hung everything for 15 minutes until I killed it.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, send me a pic and i'll happily make one, i like makin gotchi's
<Fujitsu> (these are mail archives going several years back, so there's a lot)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, kontact != imap unless your on kde 3.5.5
<imbrandon> and even then its iffy
<LaserJock> imbrandon: have you seen mine on planet? it's pretty bad
<Fujitsu> It works fine!
<Fujitsu> (running Edgy, not sure which KDE)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, not too bad.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, are you in koversation right now ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, XChat.
<imbrandon> type /kdeinfo if so
<imbrandon> ohh
<imbrandon> umm
* imbrandon looks what kdeinfo runs 
<Fujitsu> 3.5.5, it is.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> if you updated edgy its 3.5.5
<Fujitsu> Is the default Kubuntu window border theme meant to look pretty much identical to Luna?
<imbrandon> no
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: not that i know of
<nixternal> http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/PointyStick/PS1TableOfContent.html
<imbrandon> and it really dosent
<imbrandon> actualy i think the default windeco for edgy looks alot like ubuntulooks in gnome
<imbrandon> now if you want luna , i do have an exact copy ;) Hobbsee can tell you
<Fujitsu> It does look a fair bit like Luna!
* Hobbsee pukes intead
* Hobbsee pukes instead
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you're nuts
<Fujitsu> Good Hobbsee.
<StevenK> imbrandon: Repeat after me, "window decoration"
<StevenK> imbrandon: I had to read 'windeco' three times before I figured what the hell you were trying to say.
<imbrandon> StevenK, heh
<LaserJock> what's the best "OS X dock" like app for KDE?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: next you'll be using beryl with all the vista clone themes
<StevenK> With a Care Bears background.
<imbrandon> nah i hate the way vista looks
<imbrandon> and i need a better vid card for beryl , its slow on my comp right now
<Fujitsu> Crystal looks to be an OK-looking not-Luna-like window decoration set... Much better.
<imbrandon> crystal is the default silly
<Fujitsu> Is it? It wasn't for me. :S
<LaserJock> well, after a couple hours of fiddling around, my KDE desktop look completely stupid
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> here is my "defaut" desktop http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/katapult.png
<imbrandon> default*
<imbrandon> not too bad looking for my tastes
<crimsun> that's the default theme?
<imbrandon> no, just the desktop i keep most of the time
<crimsun> ah
<imbrandon> its default + oxgyen icons + blue color ( not purple )
<crimsun> yeah, I thought the default was purplish
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's the oxygen folder icon?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<imbrandon> well one of them, there are many colord ones
<imbrandon> ugh trying to do a clean checkout right now of them and build a new set
* ajmitch don't like it
<imbrandon> anything interesting on the jabber/irc thing on -devel or can i mark it all as read
<Plug> imbrandon: "hello from NZ" ;)
<imbrandon> Plug, ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: nope
<crimsun> ajmitch: permission to apply http://tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun/whereami/whereami_0.3.28ubuntu1.debdiff and upload?
<ajmitch> crimsun: aye
<crimsun> ajmitch: thanks
<imbrandon> crimsun, how can i find out what my alsa "device" is ( e.g its wanting something like plughw:0,2 )
<crimsun> imbrandon: not sure what you're asking. What do you need the virtual device for?
<imbrandon> for darkice ( an icecast2 config )
<crimsun> imbrandon: is darkice alsa-aware now?
<imbrandon> quote :
<imbrandon> Now, you have to edit darkice.cfg. In the [Input]  section, you have to choose a device. If you are using OSS, device will look like "/dev/sound/dsp". If you are using Alsa, "device" will look
<imbrandon> $ve and I have to set "device" to "plughw:0,2" to capture the sound from the SBLive.
<imbrandon> yea i guess so
<crimsun> cat /proc/asound/cards
<imbrandon>  0 [I82801DBICH4   ] : ICH4 - Intel 82801DB-ICH4
<imbrandon>                       Intel 82801DB-ICH4 with ALC658D at 0xee081000, irq 137
<crimsun> plughw:0,2 is almost certainly incorrect for a default; you would want plughw:0,0 then
<imbrandon> kk
<crimsun> you can check from the output of ``cat /proc/asound/devices''
<imbrandon> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<imbrandon> crimsun, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27764/
<imbrandon> look right ?>
<imbrandon> for 0,0
<crimsun> be aware that explicitly specifying a non-dmix/dsnoop/asym virtual device will prevent dmix/dsnoop/asym from working. For your hardware, you'll then only be able to hear one pcm source at a time.
<crimsun> yes
<imbrandon> well this "howto" i'm following says i can play amarok to darkice and stream it to my icecast server
<crimsun> absolutely
<imbrandon> kk
<crimsun> you just won't be able to hear anything from your icecast server if it's all on the same machine ;)
<imbrandon> nah its a diffrent machine
<imbrandon> only amarok and darkice are local
<crimsun> (if you were pressed to run it all on the same machine, you could use plug:asym)
<imbrandon> well ultimately i want to use my mic to "dj" at the same time
<imbrandon> will that give me issues ?
<crimsun> how much money are you willing to spend on an extra sound card?
<imbrandon> heh i have one or two laying arround if it only take a secondf card, if it takes an expensive card i'll look into other options
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun> then no, you won't have issues ;)
<imbrandon> so it will take 2 cards to do voice and music ?
<imbrandon> i have a cheap sb16 laying arround somewhere
<crimsun> with the integrated sound hardware in that machine, yes
<imbrandon> i hope its not isa heh
<crimsun> sb16 is nearly certainly ISA
<crimsun> (at least I've not seen a PCI sb16)
<imbrandon> probably my luck
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> hold on lemme dig in my pile of parts
<imbrandon> and see what i have
<imbrandon> ugh yea i have 2 but both are isa
<imbrandon> ( and no isa slots heh )
<imbrandon> oh well i'll worry about the voice later
<crimsun> you can always use plug:asym
<crimsun> you may run into sync issues
<imbrandon> if i use plug:asym will it let me do both with the built in stuff ?
<Plug> I'd rather if you didn't use me :asym ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<crimsun> imbrandon: yes, with the above caveat
<crimsun> Plug: unfortunately the syntax is fixed, sorry
<imbrandon> worth a try , i'm just messing arround becouse someone in -offtopic said it couldent be done in linux
<imbrandon> and wants to run windows to "dj"
<imbrandon> so i'm proving him wrong hopefully
<crimsun> oh it can be done; I've done it. It just becomes exponentially painful for hardware that doesn't support native pcm multiplexing.
<imbrandon> ahh
<Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, is it ok to upload a new texmaker with this changes : http://librarian.launchpad.net/4919063/debdiff ?
<Gloubiboulga> it fixes a FTBFS
<imbrandon> hum crimsun you ever used darkice? have time to help me or busy ?
<crimsun> imbrandon: I used ices2 and icecast
<imbrandon> well i ahve those installed
<crimsun> not familiar w/ darkice tbh
<imbrandon> e.g. ices2 but how can i stream from amarok to ices2 ?
<imbrandon> ( or any music app )
<crimsun> I used ogg123's and mpg321's stdout combined with ices2's stdin
<imbrandon> i dont really care about the app if i can get it working heh
<imbrandon> ahhh
<ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: yes - drop a blank line from the changelog though
<ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me if soyuz choked on it ;)
<Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, sure, thanks
<imbrandon> ahh i narrowed it down [2006-10-22  03:32:50]  EROR input-alsa/alsa_open_module Failed to open audio device plughw:0,0: Device or resource busy
<crimsun> imbrandon: right, with your sound hardware it'd be exclusive
<imbrandon> so i have to turn off kde sounds ? then how can i play amarok
<imbrandon> hum /me is puzzled
<crimsun> imbrandon: what's hogging the device?  [lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/* ] 
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27769/
<imbrandon> looks like mostly artsd
<imbrandon> i thought kde dident use arts anymore ?
<crimsun> arts remains a dependency of kubuntu-desktop according to apt-cache(8) show
<crimsun> (hey, aren't you a Kubuntu guy anyway? ;-)
<imbrandon> haha yea but i thought we removed it
<imbrandon> man i hate sounds systems ( mostly becouse i dont understand them )
<crimsun> ah, ices2 is using /dev/dsp
<imbrandon> i guesss thats sometihng i should brush up on
<crimsun> oss emulation is exclusive, just like specifying plughw:X,Y
<crimsun> yeah, I'm writing a spec for that upon sabdfl's req
<imbrandon> ahh i killed ices2 and it killed all the atrsd too
<imbrandon> good nowe only kmix has it
<crimsun> I suppose you could set arts's timeout to 1 second
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/bin$ lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*
<imbrandon> COMMAND  PID    USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME
<imbrandon> kmix    5426 brandon   11u   CHR  116,9      8206 /dev/snd/controlC0
<crimsun> (well, artsd's)
<imbrandon> ohhh i think its working, me checks
<imbrandon> gah
<imbrandon> well its working BUT now when i try to play with amarok its busy
<crimsun> right.
<crimsun> here's another kludge: Wrap ices2 with aoss (from 'alsa-oss')
<crimsun> that's one thing that Windows does nicely (kernel mixing)
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ok trying that now, i have a script that starts ices2 anyhow, i just need to modify it
<crimsun> wow, mpg123 actually got 0.61 out
<imbrandon> plughw:asym or plug:asym ?
<crimsun> latter
<imbrandon> hum it cant find that one
<imbrandon> [2006-10-22  03:48:26]  EROR input-alsa/alsa_open_module Failed to open audio device plug:asym: No such file or directory
<imbrandon> yea i definatly want to sit in on your spec, this stuff needs to be easier
<imbrandon> brb i'
<imbrandon> m a get some food
<crimsun> imbrandon: just use the oss device for ices2 and wrap it with aoss when you invoke it
<imbrandon> crimsun, rockin that worked
<imbrandon> well i think it did
<imbrandon> its streaming something
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i assume its what i'm playing
<imbrandon> anyone wanna test out the ogg stream http://federation.imbrandon.com:8000/test/high.ogg.m3u to see if i got it right ?
<crimsun> any chance of running that on :80 ?
<imbrandon> sure, give me a minute to restart it and shutdown apache
<imbrandon> gah something isnt right
<imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 stop
<imbrandon>  * Stopping apache 2.0 web server...                                                                                                                                                             [ ok ] 
<imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/icecast2 start
<imbrandon> Starting icecast2: Starting icecast2
<imbrandon> Detaching from the console
<imbrandon> Could not create listener socket on port 80
<imbrandon> Server startup failed. Exiting
<imbrandon> icecast2.
<imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:~$
<crimsun> are you sure nothing's listening on tcp/80 ?
<imbrandon> not sure, afaik apache was the only thing running on it
<crimsun> # netstat -ntlp |grep :80
<imbrandon> nothing
<crimsun> I'm trying to remember if you have to adjust the port in both conffiles (ices2 and icecast2)
<imbrandon> yea you do, but enterprise is a seperate computer
<imbrandon> i have ices2 running localy and icecast2 running on enterprise
<crimsun> I don't have the documentation in front of me, but it should be a conffile issue.
<imbrandon> kk i'll look a bit more
<phanatic> morning
<crimsun> 'lo
<phanatic> hey crimsun
<ivoks> 'morning
<giskard> hello
<seaLne> how do i request a package rebuild?
<seaLne> multisync was built against an old version of libpisock-dev
<minghua> seaLne: and what's the consequence?  multisync not installable?  not working?
<seaLne> not installable
<geser> seaLne: is libpisock9 available on all archs? the last time I looked there were problems with building
<minghua> !info libpisock9
<ubotu> Package libpisock9 does not exist in any distro I know
<crimsun> (add 'edgy')
<minghua> !info libpisock9 edgy
<ubotu> libpisock9: library for communicating with a PalmOS PDA. In component main, is optional. Version 0.12.1-5 (edgy), package size 99 kB, installed size 264 kB
<seaLne> libmultisync-plugin-palm depends libpisock8 which isn't in edgy i386 anyway
<minghua> seaLne: multisync was rebuilt on September 18th, the new version is 0.82-6.1build1, what is your version?
<minghua> crimsun: thanks for the tip
<seaLne> 0.82-6.1build1 :)
<crimsun> np
<minghua> okay, let's dig deeper then
<minghua> seaLne: how?  0.82-6.1build1 FTBFS on all arches
<seaLne> ah sorry no build1
<seaLne> i should read more carefully sorry
<minghua> okay, that makes sense
<seaLne> so the build1 should have fixed this?
<seaLne> except for you saying libpisock9 not building
<minghua> seaLne: so multisync was sent to be rebuilt, but the building failed.  part of the failed log is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27785/, do you have any idea how to fix it?
<seaLne> just trying to build it just now
<seaLne> yeah still fails
<minghua> libpisock9 looks okay to me
<minghua> (it wasn't me that says libpisock9 falied to build)
<seaLne> ok libpisock9 seems to exist fine, libpisock-dev installed ok for pbuilder to try to use
<minghua> bug 67520
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67520 in multisync "[UNMETDEPS]  libmultisync-plugin-palm broken depends" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67520
<minghua> seaLne: post your discoveries in that bug, and then come here and ask a MOTU to do the upload for you
<cbx333> do we know about this bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/67517
* minghua feels guilty to add one more bug to the unmet-dependency list, instead of removing one :-P
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67517 in nautilus "Multiple windows of home loaded for no reason" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<seaLne> minghua: ok, i'll have a poke
<Fujitsu> minghua, multisync was removed from testing a while back, because nobody ended up fixing it to work with libpisock9.
<Fujitsu> (I was looking at it this morning)
<seaLne> ah
<minghua> Fujitsu: add that to bug #67520, would you?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67520 in multisync "[UNMETDEPS]  libmultisync-plugin-palm broken depends" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67520
<Fujitsu> I thought I did, but apparently not.
<minghua> maybe because it wasn't in the [UNMETDEPS]  list in the topic (I just changed the title)
<seaLne> Fujitsu: do you know anymore about it or just that it dosen't work with 9?
<Fujitsu> seaLne, there are API changes which break things, I didn't look into it in detail.
<seaLne> k
<sivang> hi folks
<herzi> hub: ping
<pirast> sivang, hi
<pirast> sivang, fpc was bootstrapped now :-)
<pirast> sivang, ping me when you are back
<seaLne> lure sync in kontact seems to have a similar problem to knode
<seaLne> Lure: i previously had kitchensync installed tho so not sure if it would have had an icon in kontact if it had never been installed, as my kontact settings in my home are from previous installs
<crimsun> seaLne: do you have time to review and test http://tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun/multisync/multisync_0.82-6.1ubuntu1.debdiff ?
<crimsun> seaLne: it compiles, but I lack hardware on which to test.
<seaLne> ok
<crimsun> usual disclaimer: Please make a complete backup first, etc.
<seaLne> multisync seems a mess the source dosen't even build on its own
<crimsun> it's disgusting
<minghua> crimsun: you dropped == -1 from the pi_bind() call, intentional?
<crimsun> minghua: yes
<minghua> crimsun: cool, just asking :-)
* minghua is amazed that crimsun can fix *anything*
<seaLne> i think multisync should be removed soon anyway as opensync is supposed to replace it
<crimsun> ick, no, that's not good
<crimsun> minghua: good catch
<seaLne> crimsun: and i just restored my palm after kpilot lost all my todo and cal contents which was why this all started, ohwell :)
<crimsun> seaLne: (new debdiff posted)
<seaLne> same url?
<crimsun> seaLne: yep
<seaLne> k
<imbrandon_> ugh i giveup for tonight, this sound stuff shouldent be this hard
<crimsun> what's the problem?
<imbrandon_> well i have it streaming , but its not picking up from anything
<crimsun> ok, and you're wrapping ices2 with aoss?
<imbrandon_> yup
<crimsun> d'oh, that's the cause.
<imbrandon_> and i tried it on plug:dsnoop too
<crimsun> nah, if you're going to use alsa you need to use plughw:0,0
<crimsun> if you're going to use /dev/dsp you shouldn't wrap it with aoss
<crimsun> (I suppose it's another victim)
<imbrandon_> hrm
<imbrandon_> wow ircII you can only join one channel?
<imbrandon_> oh well
<crimsun> no, you can join multiple
<crimsun> hence why clients like bx were scripted (multiple buffers)
<crimsun> otherwise you have to create all the separate buffers and do the /joins yourself
<imbrandon_> ahh
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I have bug #65788 with XEN ;-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65788 in xen-source-2.6.17 "Hangs at boot on AMD64" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65788
<imbrandon_> well i and using old old ircII atm so i guess i have too
<imbrandon_> hehe
<imbrandon_> and its late late
<imbrandon_> gnight all
<imbrandon_> thanks crimsun for all yhour help
<imbrandon_> your*
<crimsun> np
<sivang> pirast: hey, cool, just read backlog
<seaLne> crimsun: crashes on sync
<crimsun> seaLne: ok, then that's a known issue
<seaLne> seg fault
<crimsun> yeah, it's doing nasty things with pointers
<seaLne> crimsun: http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/multisync.txt <- strace
<crimsun> valgrind would be more effective
<seaLne> not used valgrind before
<pirast> sivang, yeah
<pirast> sivang, do you know if fpc is recompiled automatically now?
<sivang> pirast: I would say it needs a give-back from a builld admin
<pirast> sivang, ok, will you ask? after fpc is available they need to  give-back libhdate
<sivang> pirast: yes, which is needed for user-he as well ;)
<pirast> sivang, parallely user-he should be synced from debian
<pirast> yeah, user-he depends on libhdate and libhdate depends on fpc-compiler
<sivang> pirast:  could you file a sync request for that and subscrive ubuntu-archive ?
<seaLne> crimsun: http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/multisync-valgrind.20683
<pirast> sivang, don't we need an uvf exception?
<sivang> pirast: you can file it and say it required UVF expection, mention the good reasons for the sync request, and subscribe ajmitch or dholbach or siretart  to it
<pirast> sivang, that'd probably a long procedure, i do not really know if it would be easier to change the depends of user-he.. but we would have to make sure that it is synced again from debian at edgy+1
<pirast> sivang, we can use the unmetdeps one for the sync request :-) i did 5 or so in the edgy release cycle :-)
<sivang> pirast: sure thing, if the unmetdeps gets fixed by syncing, I see no reason why
<sivang> not
<sivang> (it's effectivly good as a bug fix which the universe uvf team said they all are happy to accept)
<pirast> sivang, k
<sivang> pirast: btw, why does a sync is only needed to fix user-he?
<pirast> sivang, it's not just the sync
<pirast> sivang, the sync would fix the depends on the language pack
<sivang> pirast: oh, please, elaborate :)
<sivang> okay, that's a starters
<pirast> sivang, and parallely we have to fix libhdate
<sivang> okay, user-he is anyways broken now, so even if we sync it and it doesn't get fixed, we still are in the same state we were before,
<sivang> meaning no regression which is okay
<sivang> so we should start by syncing and then try to fix
<pirast> yeah
<sivang> I'll file a sync request then
<pirast> mhm i was doing it.. but feel free to do
<sivang> ah, then no need for me to repeat. thanks! :)
<pirast> argh..
<pirast> sivang, lol.
<pirast> they updated the package again at debian
<sivang> argh
<pirast> and now it depends on firefox-locale-he again
<sivang> uh-ha, interesting.
<pirast> sivang, yeah..
<pirast> we have mozilla-firefox-locale-he-il and it's installable
<pirast> do you want do prepare a debdiff or shall i?
<sivang> pirast: I don't mind if you want to, just let me know what you prefer.
<crimsun> seaLne: I'm pretty tired, and it's 8:17 AM. I'll try to look later this evening.
<sivang> hi crimsun
<pirast> sivang, i dont mind either.. but a little bit practise would be great for me since i am making preparing debdiffs since 2 weeks :-)
<pirast> -making
<sivang> pirast: sure thing go ahead
<pirast> sivang, debdiff attached in bug report
<sivang> pirast: cool, are you able to upload btw?
<pirast> sivang, nope.. you have to :-(
<sivang> pirast: ah , okay, let's see
<sivang> pirast: hmm, seems the issue is more complicated then what we thought and will require further consideration,
<pirast> sivang, whats wrong?
<sivang> pirast: the firefox locale package you've suggested in your debdiff is actually a dummy empty one
<sivang> Description: Transitional package for unavailable language
<sivang>  This is an empty transitional package to ensure a clean upgrade
<sivang>  process. You can safely remove this package after installation.
<sivang>  .
<sivang>  This language is unavailable for the current Firefox version.
<pirast> sivang, umg.
<pirast> sivang, but since ubuntu does not ship with one it is probably the best to let it depend on it
<pirast> or to remove the depends..
<sivang> pirast: I'm thinking to remove the dependends which a thorugh explenation in the changelog
<pirast> sivang, yeah but depending it on a dummy package is not that bad, also..
<pirast> when the translation gets available, it works
<sivang> I don't see the point in having the depends if they don't serve any purpose..:-/ or maybe we should leave it for when the pakcages do get contnet someday?
<pirast> yeah
<pirast> i think so
<sivang> pirast: if this is the purpose of those packages, it was slipped out of the description. the description clealry states that they are dummy ones and you can safely remove them after an upgrade
<sivang> pirast: okay, let's leave it with the dependency on the dummy package then, not sure if I have a better idea.
<pirast> sivang, k
<tuxmaniac> Seveas> ping
<gnomefreak> anyone know if there is a reason /etc/ /boot/ and the rest are hidden files?
<StevenK> Hmph.
<StevenK> There's 3 ada packages I've fixed unmet dependancies on.
<Q-FUNK> http://hughsient.livejournal.com/5889.html
<Q-FUNK> should we host "Debian tools for the RPM refugee" sessions, in response?
<pirast> StevenK, still here?
<pirast> StevenK, when you are re, could you please look what is wrong with the enigmail build? launchpad says "0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu1" at my profile.. but when i view builds i don't see it: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/enigmail-locales/+builds?build_state=all
<markdrago>  I found a bug in an ubuntu package and would like to contribute a patch.  I'm wondering how I can access ubuntu package sources from source control.  Anyone able to help?
<rmjb> markdrago: "apt-get source <packagename>" might be a good place to start
<markdrago> rmjb: thanks
<rmjb> Anyone seen Laserjock?
<rmjb> hello anyone, it's advised not to change the source tarball, but if the source does not extract into a <package>-<version> directory format is it okay then?
<shawarma> rmjb: Yes, that should be fine.
<shawarma> rmjb: Er.. no.
<shawarma> rmjb: heh... I misread your question.
<rmjb> the package I'm working with, the source tarball extracts to <package>/<version>
<shawarma> rmjb: Don't change the original source. dpkg-deb will unpack it in a sane way for you.
<shawarma> rmjb: The only valid reason for changing the original source tar ball is if it's in .zip format or something (we don't support that) or if the source contains things we cannot distribute without violating either our own guidelines or upstream's ditto.
<rmjb> ok
<Nafallo> shawarma: or if it contains non-dfsg material :-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: Yes. That's what the "if the source contains things we cannot..." bit meant. :-)
<giskard> or if it ships (already package) libXXXX/ in the tar.gz
<giskard> d*
<shawarma> giskard: Er.. no.
<giskard> shawarma: why not? i did so for somplayer
<Nafallo> :-)
<shawarma> giskard: So the orig.tar.gz for mplayer is not the original source?
<giskard> hello nafallo :)
<Nafallo> giskard: just don't build that dir :-)
<Nafallo> hi giskard :-)
<giskard> shawarma: i don't know how is made the maplayer package :( sorry.
<giskard> Nafallo: nah, not so easy :(
<shawarma> giskard: I just assumed "somplayer" was a typo and you meant "mplayer". What is somplayer?
<Nafallo> giskard: works for the mplayer source ;-)
<giskard> Nafallo: upstream ships also gettext source
<giskard> shawarma: a stupid audio player.
<Nafallo> tell them to stop being stupid then? :-)
<giskard> shawarma: somasuite.org
<shawarma> giskard: So the orig.tar.gz for somplayer is not the original source?
<Nafallo> or patch the buildsystem :-)
<giskard> shawarma: no
<giskard> at last the one in Debian.
<shawarma> giskard: Blimey. I'd definitely consider that a bug. An RC one, even.
<giskard> shawarma: why you are considering that a RC bug?
<shawarma> giskard: Because the integrity of the source has been hosed.
<giskard> (ah, probably i didn't say that the tarball name was renamed)
<shawarma> giskard: Oh, that's quite alright.
<giskard> :)
<shawarma> giskard: It's only got to do with the contents.
<shawarma> giskard: Of the contents of the original source has been altered, THAT would be a bug.
<giskard> shawarma: i don't think so :) btw, feel free to open a bug on the Debian bts and on LP :)
<shawarma> giskard: I will. :-)
<sivang> pirast: I uploaded your changes :)
<pirast> sivang, great :-)
<rmjb> it's not a problem if the source tarball is in bz2 format instead of gz right?
<shawarma> rmjb: I actually think it is.
<rmjb> I think I picked a troublesome package to work on as my first :(
<shawarma> rmjb: Just checked. It has to be in gzip format.
<shawarma> rmjb: In that case, it's quite alright to simply recompress it to gzip.
<rmjb> ok
<Nafallo> but dpkg supports bz2 :-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: It does? Well, in that case I'm not sure.
<cbx33> Hi guys, I had an idea, but not sure if it already exists, or if people would want it....it would be on an opt in only basis, basically.....when a source pacakge is updated a message is sent out to the maintainer of packages that depend on it, informing them, so they can test for breakages.  That was some people who made a package a while ago, will be informed when their package may break?
<cbx33> good idea or am I just talking rubbish?
<rmjb> cbx33: check this http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-watch
<cbx33> hmm....yeh
<cbx33> could possibly do with an update to that...
* cbx33 goes off to start planning
<rmjb> /usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file `/usr/share/man/man8/dmraid.8': Permission denied
<rmjb> why would I get this when testing with pbuildre?
<rmjb> s/pbuildre/pbuilder
<Gloubiboulga> because you need to install the file in 'debian/<package>/usr/share/man/man8/dmraid.8', not on the system
<rmjb> okay then... what's weird is I'm updating an existing package... using the same debian directory, just updating the upstream tarball, changelog and one or two other little files
<rmjb> I'll look into it though
<giskard> Lure: what about  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/60442
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60442 in gnome-power "Dual / Two Batteries, shutdown on empty expansion battery. (GPM does not recognises second battery on hotplug)" [Unknown,Confirmed] 
<Lure> giskard: not much to do for release - besides documenting workaround in release notes...
<giskard> Lure: yes, i thought the same thing :(
<Lure> giskard: I do not see the simple fix for it, as hal is reporting remaining_time which cannot be trusted and g-p-m action is depending on it
<giskard> Lure:  upstream said is fixed in cvs
<Lure> giskard: good thing is that it is at least configurable - for kde (guidance-power-manager), we had to also improve a workaround which will hopefully get in before relesdr
<giskard> uhm.
<Lure> giskard: not really - they just changed some minor issues that were found with code review
<Lure> giskard: both are clear issues, but with less visible side effect (only notification at wrong time) and not causing auto action
<giskard> Lure: uhm. so the problem is in Hal and not in GP, right?
<giskard> s/GP/gpm
<Lure> giskard: hal or acpi quirks - it might be the later, but hal should handle it better
<giskard> Lure: thank you.
<CarlFK> StevenK: you said you were the last to touch spe.deb - should I report dpkg-buildpackage issues to you or who?
<Nafallo> zul: hi. any idea about bug 65788
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65788 in xen-source-2.6.17 "Hangs at boot on AMD64" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65788
<Nafallo> ?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-15
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o gnomefreak]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*@AMarigot-102-1*!#ubuntu-ops]  by gnomefreak
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o gnomefreak]  by ChanServ
<Kmos> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=377
<Kmos> can someone nuke this one?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<minghua> Hi there bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi minghua
<minghua> The mail from GetDeb.net admin looks interesting.
<minghua> Hmm, so we are 5 minutes from archive freeze...
<bddebian> eeks :-)
<ajmitch> nice, positive email on -sounder
<bddebian> So how long before the first getdeb bugs start getting filed on LP? :-)
<ajmitch> what makes you think that they haven't already been there?
<ajmitch> eg https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/134707
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134707 in pidgin "Group with broken characters keeps coming back with ICQ/AIM buddies" [Undecided,New] 
<bddebian> Of course...
<minghua> That pidgin is not quite bad, actually...
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> hey bddebian
<persia> So, it's Monday UTC now.  Does motu-uvf need to ACK all the pending sync requests?
<RAOF> Wow, eclipse is *still* building.  ScottK - you wanted the eclipse build, right?
<persia> RAOF: Still?  That seemed like a sensible patch, but that's a long time for he buildds to be busy.
<RAOF> persia: It'll probably be faster when it doesn't have to thrash swap to build :/
<persia> heh
<RAOF> How much ram in the buildds, again?
<RAOF> :)
<minghua> Alas.  Have tracker enabled and not exclude ~/Temp from its tracking, meanwhile use ~/Temp as a place to extract big HTML documents to read is probably not a good idea...
<RAOF> Build needed 19:02:38, 1654800k disk space
<persia> It's done!  Hurrah.  Does it work?
<RAOF> Build killed with signal TERM after 151 minutes of inactivity!
<RAOF> Gah!  It had built, damnit!
<persia> Umm....
<RAOF> It was assembling the debs, and something killed it!
<persia> Usually 151 minutes of inactivity indicates it couldn't get something done.  Doesn't usually bode well for later buildd building...
<RAOF> persia: Want a pastebin of the last builder output?
<persia> RAOF: Sure.  No guarantees I can explain it, but it might help (and someone else might look as well)
<RAOF> I'd mail you the build log, but apparently postfix doesn't like sending messages that large(!)
<persia> Err.  That's huge!   Does pastebin accept it?
<RAOF> I don't have all the buildlog in backscroll, I haven't set screen's buffer to 64MB yet
<RAOF> Pastebin will accept what I have :)
<RAOF> Ah, what I meant was: I don't *have* a full build log, because I rely on sbuild to mail me one.  And postfix won't :)
<persia> RAOF: Look in ~/logs/
<TheMuso> RAOF: heh
<RAOF> persia: Nope, empty.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.  My sbuild is configured to store the logs there (and I don't remember fiddling with it).
<RAOF> Anyway, here's the end of the log: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40667/
<RAOF> Maybe I should look into that :)
<ajmitch> that's a seriously broken package
<RAOF> Oh, whoops.  ~/Ubuntu/logs ;)
<TheMuso> heh] 
<TheMuso> again
<TheMuso> The bigger the project...
* persia thinks it's a good thing this didn't get uploaded in the current state.
<RAOF> Ah, there it is.  Surprisingly enough, postfix doesn't like sending a 26Mb build log.
<RAOF> Anyone who wants to run a post mortem on that can grab all glorious 26Mb of that log from http://cooperteam.net/eclipse_3.2.2-3ubuntu4_20071014-1525
* persia thinks upstream needs a code janitor
<RAOF> They perhaps could generate fewer than 6000 warnings/code file, yes.
* persia is expecting to find ant crashing, complaining that there are too many warnings
* persia wonders if the command to "Preinitialisz the Eclipse directory" shouldn't be in postinst.
<persia> RAOF: Why does it have "L Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed" everywhere?  Isn't that usually just "Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed"?
<RAOF> Uuum, let me grep some other build logs...
<RAOF> Nope, all my builds have "L Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed".  I don't know why.
<persia> RAOF: Also, did it produce any binaries?
<RAOF> No.
<persia> Interesting.  I wonder if that is because all those dpkg-deb lines failed, or because sbuild removed them after the final failure notice.
<persia> RAOF: Is your sbuild purge-mode "successful"  or "never" by any chance?
<RAOF> persia: Let me check
<pwnguin> grr. it should be a crime to use flash video playback when i have plugins that run flv perfectly fine
<pwnguin> im tired of 100 percent cpu playback for crappy youtube / google video
<pwnguin> when totem et all handle it flawlessly
<RAOF> persia: It's default, which seems to be "successful"
* persia thought default was "always".
<persia> RAOF: Does the build-tree have any useful clues?
<RAOF> No, it's gone, apparently.  The snapshot is no more. (Maybe the default *is* always)
<persia> RAOF: I like to use "successful" just for this type of eventuality.
* RAOF goes to uncomment that option.
<RAOF> Not very useful for now, of course.
<persia> Next time :)
<RAOF> I think, however, that this may be an artifact of how long it takes to build, although it's stupid that it'd be triggered at the end.
<RAOF> Some of the build commands would've taken > 150 minutes without any output, and I think sbuild tries to kill such builds.
<persia> RAOF: I'm inclined to agree, although the number of warnings is larger than I'm willing to look at individually.  Unfortunately, it may be difficult to get enough build time to try again for gutsy.
<RAOF> Yeah.  I could turn off the timeout & try again, but that will *still* mean that the package finishes building *tomorrow*.
* persia thinks tomorrow is likely too late
<RAOF> Yeah, probably.
<TheMuso> RAOF, persia, what option is that?
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<persia> TheMuso: "purge-mode".  If set to "successful", it doesn't delete the build-tree when the build is complete if there is an error.  ("never" always leaves the build-tree, and "always" always deletes it (the default))
<RAOF> persia: And that's going to work with lvm snapshots, too?
<ScottK> RAOF: At this point I'd say it's not worth uploading Eclipse.  I don't know that the buildd's are going to finish with what they already have.
<persia> RAOF: I've not looked at it in a bit, and my sbuild / schroot configuration is broken in a couple ways that I've manually worked around, but my memory is that it skips the "delete the build directory" step, but still clears the chroot (leaving the build directory in .)
<RAOF> ScottK: In that case an extra ~90min worth of build time is not going to go down well :)
<TheMuso> persia: I'm guessing thats a .sbuildrc option?
<persia> ScottK: You'll have an opinion: Do the sync requests filed yesterday need motu-uvf ACK if the syncs haven't been completed?
<ScottK> RAOF: Right.
<persia> TheMuso: I believe so.  man sbuild
<ScottK> persia: I'd say not, but I'm easy.
<ScottK> persia: Did you see you got a 2nd ack for polyxmass-doc
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  It's now amoung the 8 syncs I'd like to see get in :)
<lamont> $purge_build_directory="successful";
<lamont> $purge_build_directory="never";
<lamont> persia: one of those...
<lamont> or "always"
<ScottK> persia: I'd say it's time to push the process along.
<theneb> Hi all, common question I'm sure but how do I get our project (maintained in svn and on the debian repos) onto Ubunut?
<theneb> *Ubuntu
<persia> ScottK: I'm agreed to that, I just wanted to verify that I didn't need to get motu-uvf ack for all of them before making noise.
<RAOF> theneb: If it's in Debian, it should get sync'd into Ubuntu at the start of each dev cycle.
<RAOF> theneb: Or is that an answer to a different question to the one you asked? :)
<persia> theneb: The software will need to be packaged.  The first step is to file a bug in Launchpad, asking that the package be included.  The next step is preparing a candidate package for review.  After that, it's just shared feedback, and once two developers have approved, it will be uploads.
<theneb> We started being in aptitude on the 27th of April
<RAOF> theneb: What package is this?
<theneb> liquidsoap
<theneb> http://savonet.sourceforge.net
<persia> ScottK: I also haven't seen the snort-common-libraries package hit NEW yet.  Have you been chasing that?
<RAOF> theneb: So, if it's packaged in Debian, it'll automatically get synced over into Hardy when the archives open (in a couple of weeks, I think).
<imbrandon> moins all
<theneb> RAOF: thanks for your help so far, I've just noticed it's not in stable Debian, do I need to get a release in stable before it'll be included?
<ajmitch> liquidsoap |    0.3.2-4 | http://nz2.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<RAOF> Ah, ubotu was only looking at binary packages :)
<ajmitch> which means that it probably never built
<RAOF> And no-one noticed :)
<ajmitch> right, build error with the docs
<ajmitch> maybe you'll get lucky & it'll be fixable with a stable release update
<theneb> I know they were broken at some point, though I'll do a compile and check on it
<TheMuso> I wonder whether we should see about getting general FTBFS notices for autosyncs for universe sent somewhere.
<TheMuso> So we can pick up no them and get them fixed.
<TheMuso> s/no/on/
<bddebian> I thought we had a list of all source packages with no binaries somewhere?
<ajmitch> or even a list of packages where source version != binary version
<bddebian> Aye
<TheMuso> ajmitch: IMO the FTBFS notice approach would cover all architectures better, unless we could run version checks on several arches in the DC somehow.
<theneb> Oh and one little thing, stop making Ubuntu awesome, My gentoo desktop now fails in comparision
<theneb> :D
<ajmitch> TheMuso: you mean by grabbing the Packages.bz2 files? :)
<bddebian> lucas had an FTBFS list of the whole archive
<persia> TheMuso: You don't need to be in the DC to get that.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: ...or that.
* ajmitch has some scripts that probably fit that
<persia> Also, more generally, I've found a lot of FTBFS issues from bitrot, which a package version comparison won't help with.  Maybe we could schedule an archive-autobuild starting with UVF (or autosync-off), and track those?
<ajmitch> persia: one was meant to be scheduled
<ajmitch> you just have to poke people harder, I suspect
<persia> ajmitch: What happened?
<ajmitch> as with everything, nobody found the time to do it
* persia adds to the list of things to list as MOTU meeting topics during the hardy cycle
* ajmitch should probably wipe the rc bug comments soon
<persia> ajmitch: Could you wait until the per-bug commenting system is available?  A fair number of those will be relevant during the hardy cycle, and active tracking of RCs isn't usually agreesively relevant until autosync freeze
<persia> s/ees/sse/
<persia> um.
<ScottK> persia: snort hasn't built yet.  It was accepted, but the line is long at the buildd's.
<persia> ScottK: It's built on a few architectures.  Are all the binaries bundled, and presented in NEW together?
<ScottK> persia: Dunno.  I'll have a look.
<StevenK> If they're waiting in NEW, it usually won't be accepted until it has built everywhere
<persia> StevenK: That makes sense.
<ajmitch> persia: the whole point of removing per-package comments is because they couldn't simply be copied to per-bug
<persia> ajmitch: I completely agree.  I just don't know your release schedule.  If you're releasing, by all means wipe it.
<ajmitch> 'release schedule' is when I have the urge to work on it
<ajmitch> though I've been doing some hacking in that area today with django, but on another app
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Did you get a chance to test that amd64 kompozer crash?
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Ah, no sorry.
<tonyyarusso> k
<RAOF> I actually forgot about it! :(
<minghua> Does anybody else's nautilus in browser mode need double-click in the sidepane to switch directories (gutsy)?
<bigon> may I upload a fix for the liquidsoap FTBFS?
<persia> bigon: I'd recommend opening a bug with the debdiff to make it easy for motu-uvf to approve.
<persia> bigon: Also, if you want to chase FTBFS issues, there's still heaps of FTBFS bugs listed on http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/ (all of which are guaranteed to have a solution)
<bigon> thx
<persia> bigon: Only thing to remember is that hard freeze is in seven hours, and you'll want to have had anything already accepted and built by then (and neither the accept nor build queues are empty)
<jdong> is bryce's xserver-xorg-video-intel fix going to make it?
<bigon> and it's nearly 5 am here :o
<bigon> https://launchpad.net/bugs/152821
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152821 in liquidsoap "Fix FTBFS" [Undecided,New] 
<bigon> good night
<ScottK> Since it looks like bigon went to bed, anyone want to upload his fix in 152821 ^^^.  Feel free to go for it.
<TheMuso> I'll look into it.
<TheMuso> bug 153821
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> bug 152821
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152821 in liquidsoap "Fix FTBFS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152821
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ScottK] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | New Packages Freeze / Upstream Version Freeze in effect -  Universe Freeze in effect, all uploads to be approved by motu-uvf | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
* persia notices https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.has_cve=on
<TheMuso> Ugh. Didn't put the bug number in the aptch. I'll do it for the sake of expediency.
<TheMuso> s/aptch/patch/
<TheMuso> I thought Laurent was a MOTU. Obviously not activated yet...
<ScottK> persia: His is, but we are in the mother-may-I motu-uvf stage of the process.
<ScottK> His/He
<ScottK> I guess he gave up getting an answer.
<persia> TheMuso: ScottK is really speaking to you :)
<ScottK> persia: Sorry.
<ScottK> Right.
<TheMuso> heh
<persia> ScottK: Not so much gave up, as was advised he needed motu-uvf-may-I just when he finally finished and was going to sleed (5am local time)
<TheMuso> ScottK: Yeah I know, and the fact he has gone to bed.
<persia> s/sleed/sleep/
* TheMuso waits for liquidsoap's bulid-deps to download...
<StevenK> TheMuso: And this is why having a local mirror is *wonderful*
* persia seconds the advantages of network-near mirrors
<TheMuso> StevenK: When my server is built, I'll likely have such a local mirror.
<TheMuso> Till then, it gives my CPU enough time to finish another build session I have running.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Yeah, but then you get to deal with the joys of syncing a mirror. And how completly brain-dead debmirror really is.
<ajmitch> at least it's better than apt-proxy
<StevenK> Sometimes I question that. :-)
<ajmitch> apt-proxy is a nice idea
<StevenK> Yeah, it just completly and utterly blows. :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well I'll worry about it when I get roudn to having to set it up.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
<ajmitch> hello
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya TheMuso
<dholbach> how are you guys doing?
<TheMuso> Couldn't be better atm!
* TheMuso notes he is currently in musical heaven. :p
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> hehe, cool :-)
<TheMuso> Looks like a fair few MOTUs will be in Boston.
<ajmitch> that's a good change
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I thought a lot of MOTUs were in attendance for all of the UDSs.
<ajmitch> often there's not many
<TheMuso> Right.
<dholbach> we always had a few MOTUs there, no?
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah, I'm just not sure how many, and looking at the boston attendees on LP, I see a few MOTUs, and theres likely to be more.
<ajmitch> a few but not a lot
* superm1 will be there :)
<TheMuso> superm1: Sweet, so will I.
<superm1> TheMuso, cool :)
<superm1> TheMuso, all week?
<dholbach> :-)
<luk_> hi dholbach
<luk_> a pitty I have to go now, will contact you later today...
<dholbach> hey luk_ - yeah, feel free to send me a mail or ping me on IRC
<white> there is not by any chance a nice conference in the US in middle of june, which would sponsor DDs to come there and stuff?
* white found out that debconf is in august, which is in the middle of my semester time :/
<white> ScottK: 0.9.8.5-1 will probably do
<white> ScottK: the maintainer is also upstream and the new version was uploaded straight after my NMU
* persia wonders to which package white is referring
<white> knowledgeroot
<persia> 0.9.8.5-1 is just finishing building now :)
<white> well it is time to go for a run now :)
<persia> I just noticed bug #87844.  Is anyone planning on fixing that in the next three hours?  Should it perhaps not be milestoned?  If nothing else, I'm tempted to unassign "MOTU".
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87844 in spe "[apport]  spe crashed with AttributeError in skip()" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87844
<TheMuso> persia: What needs doing to it to get it fixed? Is there a patch attached?
<persia> TheMuso: There's a patch, but the comments indicate it doesn't work.  Last comment is pkern suggesting an SVN pull (as far as I understand the buglog)
<TheMuso> persia: Ok, I'll have a look in a bit.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  If a solution doesn't occur to you, would you mind getting it unmilestoned?  I'm not sure it's really as release-critical as some of the other outstanding bugs.
<TheMuso> persia: I'm going to see bout pulling it from svn if I can.
<ajmitch> how old is the bug?
<TheMuso> from February.
<ajmitch> so hardly a regression if it's released as-is
<persia> The only confusing bit is that the bug was milestoned, and assigned to MOTU.
<ajmitch> that sort of thing happens
<Fujitsu> Assigning to MOTU is fairly normal.
<ajmitch> dholbach assigned it to motu back in march, so it's been there for awhile
<ajmitch> the activity log doesn't track nominations though
<Fujitsu> You'd have to check bugmail
* ajmitch presumes it happened at the same time
* Fujitsu does so.
<Fujitsu> Patrice Vetsel milestoned it to beta more than a month ago, so it has been a while...
<TheMuso> Meh. Can't find its svn repo.
<TheMuso> I must say I haven't looked very hard for it either.
<TheMuso> Considering the discussion thats been had about the bug.
<persia> TheMuso: No rush.  There's more than 100 outstanding of each FTBFS and unmetdeps bugs, either of which is probably more interesting.
* ajmitch thinks there's really no time to chase after such bugs
* persia thinks anything uploaded now wouldn't make the release anyway.  There are still two universe uploads pending in unapproved (as far as I can tell)
<StevenK> If they both start with virtualbox, they're mine.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm kinda in agreement. We've done all we can, anything important to be fixed can wait for SRUs.
* TheMuso thinks he should return to ripping CDs.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why are they unripped?
<persia> StevenK: No.  There are four now: liquidsoap, sqlfairy, virtualbox-ose-modules, and virtualbox-ose
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: The HD I had them on several months ago crashed, and I haven't been bothered till now to re-rip them, and it gives me a chance to re-organise them, and change the way I'm storing them.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
* ajmitch is busy doing some stuff with django anyway
<jml> RAOF: hi
<ajmitch> ah, jml is back
<jml> yes, I'm back and I've discovered the xrandr command line tool
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> good evening Hobbsee
<RAOF> jml: Ho!
<RAOF> Afternoon Hobbsee, ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hi RAOF, how's it going?
<RAOF> ajmitch: It's hot, and I've got a friend from Hobart staying with me.
<RAOF> This is in order of obviousness.
* RAOF was sure he had pointed jml at xrandr
<Hobbsee> heya ajmitch, RAOF!
<jml> RAOF: you had, but for some reason when I upgraded to gutsy, I tried the GUI tool instead
<TheMuso> Good $Time_Of_Day newcomers.
<jml> RAOF: anyway, it looks like I can get 1680x1050 on my new monitor from my laptop (although not while displaying stuff on the laptop screen)
<RAOF> jml: Yay!  Kinda.
<persia> StevenK: Does virtualbox not work with -rt?
<StevenK> persia: I've not tried.
<StevenK> And to be honest, I didn't think of trying to build against -rt
<TheMuso> Does virtualbox need a CPU with virtualization support?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Not that I've seen.
<persia> Also, doesn't i386 provide a special -i686 kernel which isn't -generic?  Anyway, I'll stop whining :)
<StevenK> persia: -386. And, hmph.
<Hobbsee> how's the sponsorship queue?
<Hobbsee> we have 9 hours, iirc
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Isn't it a bit over 2 hours?
<persia> Hobbsee: I think we only have 2 hours, and sponsorship queue looked triaged about 8 hours ago (although I haven't looked since)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, so i cant do maths? great.
<Hobbsee> oh, i see, by 10 UTC
<Fujitsu> Yeah, 20071014 1000 UTC
<Hobbsee> fuzzy deadline
<Fujitsu> Erm, the date in the mail looks wrong. I presume it means the 15th, not the 14th?
<Fujitsu> That would be a while ago.
<Fujitsu> And not a Monday.
<Hobbsee> yeah
* persia certainly hopes the 15th: there's been lots of uploads and acceptances since then.
<persia> The buildds are hungry...
<Hobbsee> yeah, i know.  i've poked.
<Hobbsee> but...i'm dependant on them doing the work
<persia> Hobbsee: I completely understand.  Thanks for poking :)
<TheMuso> What needed poking?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the archive admins who are permitted to accept packages from unapproved
<TheMuso> ah
<persia> TheMuso: Someone could accept some sources before the next publication so the buildds have something to do.
<persia> (well, non-hppa buildds)
<TheMuso> yep
<TheMuso> I'm aware of that, but wasn't aware the builds had nothing to do.
<persia> TheMuso: As far as I can tell, the last 4 compiles are now underway, and there's one source expected in the next publish.
<TheMuso> right
<Hobbsee> oh, there's not even that much there
<persia> For universe, we've only 3: liquidsoap + virtualbox (x2)
<Fujitsu> I'm still wondering how they managed to have +queue using such different code that it doesn't announce.
* TheMuso wishes that sometimes people would have the same opinion on how to label tracks in CDDB.
<persia> Fujitsu: Doesn't announce?
<Fujitsu> persia: Yeah, Hobbsee has permissions to accept things through the web UI, but the code there doesn't announce to <release>-changes, so is dangerous.
<TheMuso> persia: Web UI for accepting packages not announcing to changes.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Right.
* persia thinks unapproved -> approved is a manual script, and LP UI is a complete rewrite
<Hobbsee> persia: goodness only knows.  but i havent found any launcphad-types yet.
<persia> Am I correct that the next publish run is the last allowed?
<Fujitsu> persia: The 0903Z run?
<StevenK> The publisher probably started about a minute ago, unless they've already pushed it to manual
<Fujitsu> I suspect it will be.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.
<persia> StevenK: It did.  I'm hoping for at least one more run to grab the last few packages.
<Hobbsee> persia: there's still stuff in unapproved, so until someone actually ack's that, then...
<Fujitsu> Actually, there's no need to switch publisher to manual at the moment that I can see, so anything accepted will probably be published as normal, so the 1003 will be the last.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes.  It's the 3 in unapproved I'm watching.  At least sqlfairy made the run.  I'm guessing someone will pay attention soon, given the growing critical population.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, well.  i've poked.
<persia> Fujitsu: That still means we need the rest of the sources in for 0903, as otherwise the binaries will never go.
<Fujitsu> persia: Hm, not sure about how freezes apply to binaries.
<persia> Is it not the same queue?  It looks that way from the web UI.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Do you know if binaries ever go into unapproved?
<Fujitsu> (only sources seem to be published in p.u.c/~ubuntu-archive/queue
* persia thinks binaries sometimes go NEW, but not unapproved
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they dont.
<Hobbsee> well, not that i can see, anyway :)
<Fujitsu> That's what I thought.
<Hobbsee> hiya jono
<Hobbsee> persia: exactly
<persia> Oddly though, I had a package with NEW binaries go in today, without ever showing in the NEW queue (that I saw).
<Fujitsu> persia: Somebody might just have been very quick.
<Hobbsee> persia: which was that?
<persia> Fujitsu: Maybe.
<Fujitsu> snort?
<persia> Hobbsee: snort-common-libraries
<Hobbsee> oh, i didnt ack that
* Hobbsee sees no snort at all
<persia> Hobbsee: New snort finished publishing for !hppa a couple hours ago.  Refresh your apt-cache :)
<jono> heya Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Why aren't we permitted to see UNAPPROVED through the LP UI?
<Hobbsee> persia: wasnt looking in my aptcache.
<persia> Fujitsu: Silliness
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: goodness only knows.  becaus eit's soyuz, and we know about how soyuz is made..
<Hobbsee> and they refuse to break the freeze, and add a chunk of existing launchpad code now.  GRRR!
<Fujitsu> NEW I could understand (even though we can see it), due to copyright issues, but UNAPPROVED is explicitly denied for no particularly good reason that I can see.
<Hobbsee> they say it's not critical.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Bah, who needs release managers.
<Hobbsee> yeah, well
<Fujitsu> Aw, they're not releasing 1.1.10 in the next couple of days. It doesn't seem right to not have new Soyuz-breaking features a day before release.
<StevenK> Nope, being released on the 24th
* TheMuso quietly notes that moving the ati driver to xrandr when they did was a bad move...
<StevenK> TheMuso: Like you need a video driver.
<TheMuso> At least for gutsy that is.
<persia> Anyone happen to know the planned estimated toolchain schedule?
<TheMuso> StevenK: I do actually, and I'd like my monitor to run at full res.
* StevenK makes a note to not joke about compiz to TheMuso.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Actually, the eZoom plugin is very andy, particularly on my notebook.
<TheMuso> s/andy/handy/
<StevenK> TheMuso: Which is what I thought about, hence the lack of jokes.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Gotcha.
<TheMuso> But at any rate, I feel there will be a few unhappy ati driver users out there...
<TheMuso> Come release.
<Fujitsu> What's broken about it?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Well for me at least, its not driving my monitor at full resolution possible, even though xorg.conf is correct for the monitor.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: What if you play around with displayconfig-gtk or xrandr?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I could play with those a bit. It could also be something to do with my DDC-signaling incapable KVM.
<Fujitsu> Ah, that could do it.
<Fujitsu> randr probably wants EDID.
<TheMuso> SO I need to try direct via VGA and DVI.
* persia notes than displayconfig-gtk supports third-party preloaded EDID files where a monitor is unresponsive
<bryce> moving to -ati 6.7.x was a chancy risk we took, and we knew it would incur regressions for certain users.  However this was balanced by fixes to a number of long-standing problems.  I felt it was worth the risk, and I think due to how responsive Alex Deucher has been to generate fixes to the issues we've reported, it was a good decision.
<bryce> the good news is that while we may still have some issues for situations like kvms or triple-head, or etc. Alex is still being very active with fixes, so as long as they get reported upstream effectively, we should be able to continue rolling out updates for -ati and resolve many of the remaining issues.
<persia> bryce: Are you expecting high -updates traffic for the driver?
<bryce> persia: I am hopeful we can roll out 6.8.0 and be done, but can't say for sure
<bryce> persia, I think what we have now is stable enough that we could hold off until 6.8.0
<huats> good morning everybody
<pkern> persia: you highlighted me
<persia> pkern: It was about bug #87844
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87844 in spe "[apport]  spe crashed with AttributeError in skip()" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87844
<persia> pkern: More specifically, that bug was milestoned when I mentioned it (I don't know about the current state), and I thought the last comment was you indicating it should be pulled from SVN.  I doubt there's time for it to matter now.
<persia> (hard freeze in < 1 hour and RM reviewing the last uploads beforehand already)
<pkern> persia: It is too late. It would somehow require a UVFe anyway because the changes are way too intrusive.
<pkern> Their way of programming is broken.
<persia> pkern: It's still milestoned.  You don't happen to know how to unmilestone do you?
<pkern> I don't see a milestone there.
* persia points at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-rc
<pkern> persia: Sorry yeah. Un-milestoned.
<pkern> Point is that this program might be unusable in its current state.
<pkern> We can't fix that for RC/release, but we should consider a SRU iff we release with that program in Ubuntu.
<persia> pkern: I totally agree it's broken.  I just don't think it's any more RC than the > 100 unmetdeps or > 100 FTBFS bugs that aren't milestoned, and I don't want to promise to fix it for gutsy unless someone actually volunteers to do so.
<persia> Also.  Thanks for unmilestoning.
<pkern> Now packages with unmetdeps should be removed IMHO, but well.
<pkern> persia: Unmilestoning is clicking on the bug state and removing the milestone besides the bug's priority.
<persia> pkern: Thanks for the hint.
<nxvl> persia: hi
<persia> removing packages is hard, so we don't.
<persia> hi nxvl
<nxvl> how are you?
* Hobbsee has no idea if people will do a final archive run
<nxvl> im reading the docs to help wwith hardy
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> im creating mi pbuild chroot also
<persia> pkern: The main obstacle is that we don't have "testing", so it's hard to keep a good model of the target set.
<pkern> persia: Now actually removing packages should not be hard.
<pkern> persia: If a package is not in a releasable state it should not be released.
<persia> nxvl: Great!  We're having a bunch of sessions for Ubuntu Open Week soon, which might be interesting to you.
<pkern> It could be pulled back in afterwards.
<pkern> But universe isn't supported anyway, so... whatever.
<pkern> Or rather *officially supported
<persia> pkern: Perhaps.  If you have an idea for implementation, write a spec for hardy.
<nxvl> persia: i have add Ubuntu Open week to mi Gcal so i don't forget it :D
<nxvl> persia: and the motu meeting too
<nxvl> but it's a little bit harder to be in MOTU meeting, here it will be at 7 am
<pkern> persia: Implementation to get rid of unmetdeps/FTBFS packages shortly before release or somehow draw more attention to them throughout the cycle?
<persia> pkern: Either would be good.  We have some infrastructure to detect unmetdeps, and tend to do better with them, but having something run dist-problems on universe would help.  We don't have any infrastructure to detect FTBFS due to bitrot, and only very weak infrasrtucture to support FTBFS from sync.
<pkern> You have archive rebuilds to detect FTBFS?
<persia> pkern: No.  We also only rebuild when we get a new upload, so if the build-deps shift, nobody notices.
<persia> (sometimes this happens when there's no new upstream in >6 months)
<persia> pkern: Actually, let me clarify that.  We have archive analysis runs & archive rebuilds, but only for main.
<nxvl> persia: when it will be up the hardy mirrors? on Oct 18?
<persia> nxvl: Perhaps.  It might be a little later.  Development won't really start until the developer summit is underway.
<pkern> persia: Now main is actually a tiny subset.  I'm all for fix or lose it.  But well, probably too many packages for too few people.
* TheMuso returns from having dinner.
<persia> pkern: I don't think that's true.  We get a lot of people who want to help generally, but haven't found their niche yet.  Given public resources with dynamic TODO lists, I think they would be happy to use them to try different things, including unmetdeps and FTBFS work.
<pkern> How could we track possible SRUs which are not prepared yet?
<pkern> persia: The first dholbach pointed me at in the `mentor process' were unmetdeps.
<persia> On the other hand, just implementing "lose it" might be a step in the right direction.  We'd need a pocket in which to temporarily stuff things, and get them back.
<pkern> Well, we could just prepare a merged package and upload it.  But maybe it shouldn't need NEW approval (don't know how this is handled here).
<pkern> The old version we synced was broken anyway.
<persia> pkern: Possible SRUs?  I was just thinking of something that detected FTBFS from the buildd logs, and prepared a web interface listing them, with version and last uploader.  The system would auto-remove on the next successful build.  That'd be a good start.
<pkern> And it lives on in librarian.
<pkern> persia: I'm talking about spe.
<pkern> Actually I did talk about both and intermixed, oh well.
<persia> For spe, we've lost the window.  If it's broken enough (I don't know spe), we can prepare something for -updates, which is fairly easy, but needs to be a minimal changeset.
<pkern> persia: Yep, but how to track that?
<persia> For hardy, we just upload a fixed version, and everyone is happy.
<pkern> It's confirmed -- medium, you can't escalate it more. ;)
<pkern> I could open a gutsy task for it.
<persia> pkern: Nominate the bug for "gutsy", and track as an SRU.
<pkern> Aye.
<pkern> And I also may approve the nomination, right? ;)
<pkern> (It may be auto-approved anyway.)
<persia> pkern: So the primary task becomes "hardy", and the new task is "gutsy".  And yes, approve the nomination if you like :)
<pkern> It was auto-approved. ;)
<persia> pkern: That's nice to hear.  For ages it was much more annoying than that.
<pkern> Well I'm on edge, don't know the `real' LP. ;)
<pkern> \sh_away: Thanks again for yesterday. ;)
<nxvl> what that SRU means?
<Hobbsee> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<nxvl> Hobbsee: thanx
<nxvl> !lp
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lp - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<nxvl> :(
<pkern> ubotu: LP is Launchpad (http://launchpad.net)
<nxvl> !lp
<nxvl> !LP
<nxvl> ubotu: ping
<pkern> Do I need elevated access to add factoids? Or are !ones specialcased anyway?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lp - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<ubotu> pong
<pkern> Ah, he informed me, sorry.
<persia> pkern: You'll want to submit to the list.  See the web page.
<Amaranth> !launchpad
<ubotu> launchpad is a collection of development services for Open Source projects. It's Ubuntu's Bounty and Bug tracker, and much more; see https://launchpad.net/
<Amaranth> !lp is <alias> launchpad
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Amaranth
<proppy> ohayo
<pkern> persia: #ubuntu-ops will review it according to the message I just got. ;)
<pkern> Amaranth: Thanks.
<nxvl> pbuild takes a lot to "create"
<Fujitsu> !launchpad is a collection of development services for Open Source projects. It's Ubuntu's bug tracker, and much more; see https://launchpad.net/
<persia> Fujitsu: You don't like Bounties?
<Fujitsu> persia: That part was turned off more than a year ago.
<Fujitsu> Well, unlinked, anyway.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.
<Fujitsu> It is meant to have died.
<persia> Was it not a succesful program?
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: Done
<Fujitsu> persia: Not sure.
<nxvl> pbuild create downloads a new OS, didn't it?
<Hobbsee> effectively
<nxvl> and why it doesn't use the packages in my system instead of downloading them?
<TheMuso> nxvl: The idea is to use a clean environment to ensure the package builds properly.
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> TheMuso: ant why it doesn't use the .debs on /var/cache/apt/archives/
<Fujitsu> nxvl: It's very unlikely that the entire base system would be there.
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> but it can use some packages
<nxvl> so i don't need to download again
<TheMuso> nxvl: Copy the packages you have to /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache I think its called. Can't remember as I no longer use pbuilder.
<nxvl> for example, if it's an upgrade for my system, why did i need to download once for my system and a second time for pbuild
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> interesting
<nxvl> whnx
<Hobbsee> because you may have installed packages from unofficial repos, etc, and i dont think pbuilder is smart enough to detect that.
<nxvl> Hobbsee: i haven't think on that
<nxvl> :D
<TheMuso> Adri2000: Your audacious-plugins upload has a broken upgrade path, as you forgot to put necessary conflicts etc in place for the binary packages, since you were moving a file from one package to the other.
<pkern> gnome-dbg unmet recommends epiphany-browser-dbg, libtotem-plparser1-dbg. Annoying.
* persia thought that was fixed in the last MOTU Q&A session.
<pkern> Newest gutsy.
<blueyed> It's not uploaded yet.
<pkern> Haha.
<persia> blueyed: The archive is closed (I think), so it's too late now.  I'm just surprised it wasn't uploaded at the end of the session.
<pkern> aptitude refuses to install gnome-desktop-environment. Fun.
<pkern> From a minimal cli install.
<blueyed> pkern: dholbach said to handle it, when he gets the mail.
<Hobbsee> it's almost closed
<blueyed> bug #145543
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145543 in meta-gnome2 "[UNMETDEPS]  meta-gnome2 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145543
<dholbach> blueyed: anybody else can upload it too - is the sponsoring team subscribed?
<dholbach> I'm doing something else atm, if nobody looks at it in the next 30 minutes, I can do it - no problem
<persia> dholbach: Are uploads not frozen?  I can upload now, but stopped ~24 hours ago because of the release freeze.
<blueyed> someone assigned it to the ubuntu desktop bugs
<dholbach> persia: some uploads were processed this morning
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: As in almost closed, how long?
<persia> dholbach: I've been watching :)
<Hobbsee> unsure
<Hobbsee> sometime after i shove my upload in :P
<persia> Anyone from motu-uvf want to give me a blessing on meta-gnome2?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: ok, approve some NEW packages for me then, I just want to throw some last minute crack in ;)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: lol
* persia wants NEW processing for liquidsoap when the amd64 build finishes
* ajmitch is busy trying to download ~1GB of packages to the laptop
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I think the archive is closed.
<TheMuso> judging by the time.
<StevenK> Bah, it isn't even 1200UTC yet
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i cant :P
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, but judging by the state of gutsy-changes still getting packages in, i dont thin it's quite closed yet :P
<StevenK> persia: Can I bug you for a debdiff?
<persia> StevenK: Sure.  Which?
<StevenK> persia: meta-gnome2
* TheMuso ponders fixing audacious-plugins.
<persia> StevenK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9953256/meta-gnome2_2.18.3ubuntu2.dsc.diff
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: not fair
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: okay, more to teh point, i wont.
<ajmitch> :P
<persia> (assuming it applies & builds cleanly)
<ajmitch> you're mean & cruel to me
<ajmitch> who wouldn't want new, unreviewed crack in the archive?
<StevenK> persia: Looks fine.
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.
<persia> blueyed: Uploaded.
* TheMuso decides to chance fixing audacious-plugins then, once its been tested.
<persia> TheMuso: There was just an upload of that today, wasn't there?  Is it still broken?
<TheMuso> persia: A file was moved between audacious-plugins, and plugins-extra, and no conflicts were put in place for the older package version, so upon upgrade, the upgrade process breaks.
<ajmitch> ouch
<StevenK> TheMuso: Do It.
<persia> Nasty.
<TheMuso> Thats what my message to Adri2000 was about before.
<ajmitch> bad upgrades really suck
<TheMuso> StevenK: Doing so.
<persia> TheMuso: Just fix it.  It's too late to be poking people
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah I was just telling him.
<StevenK> TheMuso: So, if your testing is okay, you have my blessing to upload, and you can tell $release_person that
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ok.
* persia apologises for not having noticed the aolserver4-nsimap FTBFS for the past 5 months
<ajmitch> persia: why apologise? noone else has seen it & fixed it
<persia> ajmitch: Because I uploaded it in May?
<ajmitch> so we're all equally at fault
<ajmitch> doesn't matter
<dholbach> persia: thanks for meta-gnome2 love
<persia> ajmitch: Except someone probably sent me the buildlog and I missed it in my mail.
* ajmitch generally never sees the build logs
<persia> dholbach: No problem.
<persia> ajmitch: It also is apparently responsible for us shipping libssl0.9.7, which we'd be better off without.
<ajmitch> is that the only thing holding libssl0.9.7 in?
<persia> ajmitch: Yep.  aolserver4-nsimap on amd64.  I'm looking now.
<ajmitch> amazing
<ajmitch> so close to having it removed :)
<pkern> Now why oh why did you, Gutsy, start X albeit I did not request it... sucker.
<ajmitch> heh
<persia> Grr..  Who wrote "Ubuntu package not affected" on the RC bugs list for Debian bug# 438425
<pkern> Now why does the postinst of xserver-xorg start X. That's just... braindead, kthx.
<ajmitch> funny, I can't connect to the rc bugs page from my laptop
* ajmitch decides to sleep
<ajmitch> night
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Isn't it on your machine?
<persia> Fujitsu: laptop / workstation
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, and it's solely due to the funny networking setup at home
* ajmitch really sleeps now 
<Fujitsu> Night ajmitch.
<TheMuso> Youch. audacious-plugins-extra pre-depends on audacious-plugins.
<TheMuso> So I can't test my fix locally I don't think...
<TheMuso> Am I right in thinking that a conflicts field is used if files have been moved between binary packages
<persia> TheMuso: I'd recommend versioned comflicts & versioned replaces
<persia> s/m/n
<persia> um.  s/m/n/3
<TheMuso> ah yes of course, replaces.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Do I need to bug someone about NEWing the liquidsoap?  TheMuso's upload seems to have got it to build for the first time.
<persia> ScottK: You may at least want to wait for the amd64 build to finish...
<ScottK> persia: Yes.
* persia happily closes the gutsy queue tabs
<fernando> moin all
<Hobbsee> you know, sometimes i'm not surprised why people say our QA is crap.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: which did you have a go at Adri2000 over?
<Hobbsee> oh, it was audacious-plugins.
<blueyed> StevenK: thanks for uploading/using the virtualbox-ose* patches! I've found another small problem though: bug 152925
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152925 in virtualbox-ose-modules ""vboxdrv stop" fails, if virtualbox is not running" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152925
<blueyed> (this can be really bad, if you want to remove the package)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Telling him that he did not put appropriate conflicts/replaces into the audacious-plugins package due to a file move.
<Hobbsee> when people dont test whether their stuff installs, particularly around the close of the archives, and it's simple to test....they clearly dont care much about QA>
<StevenK> blueyed: I hate you.
<StevenK> blueyed: :-P
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: was wondering if it was the same or different to the one i'd found.
<blueyed> StevenK: it worked with the Depends on virtualbox-ose :P
<StevenK> Actually, that was me, I added set -e to the init script, yours didn't have it.
<pkern> Hobbsee: Thanks (re QA)
<pkern> I'm mindly disappointed of the result I get with cli+gnome-desktop-environment. Metacity does not start automatically albeit being installed.
<pkern> But it's too laaaaate.
* Hobbsee ntoes that debian wants to collaborate on QA with us
* persia likes the idea of QA collaboration
<blueyed> Any chance the fix for bug 127325 can be uploaded still? libphp-phplot seems to be unusable in Gutsy otherwise.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127325 in libphp-phplot "No graphs after upgrade to Feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127325
<StevenK> blueyed: I wonder if '|| :' works too
<blueyed> StevenK: '|| :' ? instead of '|| true'? I don't know the former.
<StevenK> || true requires forking /bin/true, || : doesn't. :-)
<pkern> persia: At least when you don't assume that Debian will do the work. :-P
<ScottK> blueyed: At this point, does it meet the criteria for an SRU?
<blueyed> ScottK: I think so. At least the package can be left in a broken state and joe user would have no clue what's wrong, when he wants to remove the package.
<StevenK> ScottK: It could convincably make an update harder.
<StevenK> ScottK: So I'd rather get it fixed now.
<ScottK> StevenK: OK.
<StevenK> Er, conceivably
<ScottK> blueyed: What StevenK said.
<StevenK> Whatever. You know what I mean.
<blueyed> Speaking about upgrades, see bug 152825: "virtualbox" gets replaced by "virtualbox-ose", but the modules are missing then..
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152825 in virtualbox-ose "virtual box not working after 7.10 upgrade (dup-of: 152405)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152825
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152405 in virtualbox-ose "Virtualbox should depend on virtualbox-ose-modules" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152405
<StevenK> It Recommends them. Enough already
<StevenK> If they use a package manager with sense, the modules get dragged in to
<StevenK> s/to/too/
<Hobbsee> StevenK: apt wont.
<blueyed> StevenK: synaptic neither
<StevenK> "with sense"
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.
* StevenK grumbles.
<StevenK> Users suck
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Can we go ahead with an upload for bug 127325?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127325 in libphp-phplot "No graphs after upgrade to Feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127325
<ScottK> Package is currently pretty broken.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: who are you asking me this as?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, motu-uvf?
<ScottK> RM hat.
<ScottK> Should I ask in another channel?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: should be fine
<Hobbsee> archive isnt frozen yet
<ScottK> blueyed: It's going to work, right?
<blueyed> ScottK: yes, I've made the patch, and let it confirm by another user. I've not tested it myself, but it's quite safe and cannot be more broken anyway.
<persia> Did anyone ever get eclipse built?
<ScottK> persia: No.
<ScottK> I wouldn't wish it on the buildd's at this point.
<persia> I'm not advocating it, just curious.  When IDEing (rarely) I'm a netbeans person anyway
* StevenK gags persia and drags him away
<persia> StevenK: Why?
<StevenK> Because 'ew' :-)
<TheMuso> Argh! I'm dumn. "Who cares about QA? Not me. :p" I just found out that I moved a file between two bloody binary packages for ubuntustudio without doing the same thing as I am working on for audacious plugins. Would one of you UVF gods mind giving an exception for an ubuntustudio-look upload to fix this stupid oversight I made a couple of days ago? :S *Me blushes*
<persia> StevenK: The very concept of an IDE, or NetBeans vs. Eclipse
<StevenK> persia: Latter.
<StevenK> TheMuso: You also can't spell. :-P
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Personal ties :)
<StevenK> TheMuso: Hit me with your debdiff
<TheMuso> StevenK: Will do so shortly, and will have one for audacious once their both tested.
* pkern gags trackerd
* TheMuso feels like a complete and utter idiot.
<pkern> The person who chose to ship that...
<StevenK> blueyed: New virtualbox-ose and virtualbox-ose-modules uploaded.
<ScottK> blueyed: How about a feisty SRU once this is uploaded?
<blueyed> StevenK: -ose? for the Depends?
<StevenK> blueyed: Yes
<blueyed> Great :)
<blueyed> ScottK: about what exactly?
<StevenK> I am going to hunt down these virtualbox bug submitters ... :-P
<ScottK> blueyed: Is the libphp-phplot but an issue in Feisty too?
<ScottK> but/bug.
<persia> So, aolserver4 starts a daemon in the postinst, and always fails because it can't read a library it itself is supplying.  `dpkg --configure -a` always fixes it.  Any suggestions?
<pkern> persia: nsopenssl was just given back on amd64.
<blueyed> ScottK: Ah, yes. Why not? I've nominated it for feisty.
<pkern> persia: Same failure AFAIK.
<persia> pkern: It won't help.  See Debian bug #438425
<ubotu> Debian bug 438425 in aolserver4 "aolserver4: Fails to install: error while loading shared libraries: libnsd.so" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/438425
<pkern> persia: Bah ):
<persia> pkern: My candidate aolserver4 fixes that issue, but I've encountered the new one above during package review.  Any ideas?
<pkern> I already suspected a trigger problem (libc6 ldconfig), but that somehow confirms it.
<pkern> persia: "the new one"? But no, probably no idea. DkrtKranz (+ spelling) fixed nsopenssl through giveback.
<persia> pkern: Ah.  Because ldconfig hasn't yet run, the postinst fails?  Do you know of another package that encountered the ldconfig issue, and was fixed?
<persia> pkern: Basically, I have a fix for the issues with building plugins, but not for actually installing the server cleanly (it's still as broken after my work as before)
<ScottK> Hobbsee and blueyed: libphp-phplot uploaded.
<blueyed> ScottK: thanks!
<pkern> persia: And the postinst still fails? The last I saw was a "hey, I can't bind on port 80" message in the buildlogs, which was non-critical as it didn't cause the postinst to fail actually.
<TheMuso> How does dpkg work when it encounters conflicts/replaces? Does it have to remove a package before it upgrades the other?
<ScottK> blueyed: I also approved the Feisty task and assigned it to you.
* TheMuso is trying to test upgrading locally with such fields on a package.
<persia> pkern: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40698/
<persia> TheMuso: It prefers to remove and install.  Ideally you'd test against a local repo.
<TheMuso> persia: THought as much.
<pkern> persia: Does a ldconfig -n <path> in postinst help?
<geser> persia: perhaps the triggers for ldconfig break it
<pkern> persia: Would be a crude hack but well better than a broken package.
<persia> geser: That's what pkern had suggested.
<pkern> geser: Yes.
* persia tries with hacked-in ldconfig processing
<persia> Um.  Where do I put it?  Right before the call to launch the daemon?
<persia> Err..  There's actually a call to "ldconfig" already there.  Will ldconfig -n <path> act differently than just ldconfig?
<TheMuso> StevenK: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu has the diffs
<geser> persia: isn't ldconfig a wrapper now?
<persia> geser: Good point.  I'll just swap that with ldconfig.real, shall I.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> geser: It is.
<proppy> hi
<blueyed> ScottK: I've provided a debdiff for the SRU (libphp-phplot)
<ScottK> blueyed: Let's wait until the Gutsy one is built.  Then subscribe UUS.
<blueyed> UUS? ubuntu-sru? I've subscribed the latter already, sorry. Can you undo it?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Providing the version numbers are correct, I'm fine.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ok.
<persia> Cool.  `ldconfig.real` worked.  Thanks pkern, geser, and Fujitsu.
<Adri2000> TheMuso: argh, I'm really sorry :( thank you for taking care of fixing my mistake
<TheMuso> Adri2000: np.
<TheMuso> Adri2000: I made the mistake on another package, so we're both guilty. :)
<pkern> persia: I don't know what the wrapper does.  I sounds a bit wrong to call .real but well. -n just looks in the path you specify, not all.
<geser> pkern: ldconfig checks if it is called by the triggers and runs ldconfig.real else registers only that it needs running and the end
<pkern> Which explains why it isn't on Debian.  What a hack.
<persia> pkern: There are about 6 shared libraries.  I don't think it's going to hurt it too much to run ldconfig twice during install, rather than once (it's still better than for every package)
<pkern> Thanks geser
<geser> pkern: afaik Debian's dpkg doesn't support triggers yet
<pkern> geser: Exactly.
* persia asks for review of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10008813/aolserver4_4.5.0-10ubuntu2.debdiff to be able to meet the prerequisites for closing bug #151563
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151563 in openssl097 "Please remove openssl097 source and binaries from Gutsy" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151563
<blueyed> ScottK: virtualbox-ose-modules 5 appears to have been rejected.
<blueyed> StevenK: ^^, sry
<StevenK> And then reuploaded
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> If any further uploads are permitted to the archive, I'd like to submit http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10008813/aolserver4_4.5.0-10ubuntu2.debdiff.  It fixes the FTBFS for aolserver4-nsimap, which allows the removal of libssl0.9.7.  If not, I'd like to be told "No", so I can sleep without worry.  Could someone please guide me?
<zul> !uvf
<ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<zul> but i think it might be too late
<persia> zul!  Does xenman work in gutsy?
<zul> i havent tried it
<zul> but sure
<persia> zul: Ah.  I wasn't sure from comparing versions if Debian bug #444784 applied, and you seemed to be the person with whom I should have spoken.
<ubotu> Debian bug 444784 in xenman "xenman doesn't run at all" [Grave,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/444784
<zul> persia: it says fixed
<zul> persia: i just ran it
<persia> zul: It's fixed in Debian, but in a version later than the last merge.  That's why I wasn't sure.
<zul> persia: we have that patch already in gutsy
<persia> zul: Excellent.  Thanks for the confirmation.  It was the last of the closed Debian Grave bugs that I was trying to make sure were fixed for gutsy.
<blueyed> StevenK: virtualbox-ose-modules's postinst script is missing the DEBHELPER marker..
<blueyed> Therefor the driver does not get started after installing the package.
<blueyed> This was in my debdiff..
<blueyed> Also I had to execute "sudo depmod" now manually, because the "depmod -A" from the init script seems to have been "not enough".
<norsetto> hi bddebian, thx again for your help
<Hobbsee> norsetto: seen lp.net/ubuntu yet?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: no, whats up!?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: most active contributors
<norsetto> Hobbsee: he, there must be a bug somewhere ...
<norsetto> Hobbsee: most probably they meant kmos ;-)
<Hobbsee> HAHAHAHAHAHA
<Hobbsee> he *would* be one ofthe most active, if his fixes were actually right.
<bddebian> Heya norsetto, NP
<bddebian> He pissed of some of the Debian games folks already too :-)
<Hobbsee> now why does this not surprise me.....
<blueyed> StevenK: I've re-opened bug 152376. The fix is really trivial. See the previous debdiff from me. Should I create a debdiff for this particular fix?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152376 in virtualbox-ose-modules "Load kernel driver (vboxdrv) during boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152376
<StevenK> blueyed: I uploaded -modules 6 about five minutes ago
<effie_jayx> is there a wiki page on how to use pbuilder? I need to learn how add extra packages as dependencies
<Hobbsee> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<superm1> Hi effie_jayx, actually the way that extra dependencies are added is via debian/control of your source package though
<superm1> in the build depends line
<effie_jayx> ohh cool
<superm1> once you've added them there, you pass the source package onward to pbuilder as Hobbsee described
<effie_jayx> great
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee and superm1 ,  thanks ;)
<bddebian> Grr@games team :-(
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<ScottK> ajmitch: Are you looking for Python/django $PAID development work?
<xtknight> tonyyarusso, ah, thanks for dealing w/ that bug.
<ondrej> ScottK: what kind of job? :) just curious
<ScottK> Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Archive is frozen for Gutsy.  Time to get ready for Hardy. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages"
<ScottK> ondrej: IETF just put out an RFP for converting some of there stuff.
<ScottK> It's not on their archive page yet, but it should be here shortly: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/maillist.html
<ajmitch> ScottK: it would be nice, assuming I have spare time :)
* ajmitch also has some paid plone work to get done ASAP
<ScottK> ajmitch: As i just said above ^^^ IETF is converting some of there tools to python/django and looking for proposals.
<ajmitch> interesting
<ondrej> ScottK: thanks for info
<ScottK> ajmitch and ondrej: This is what they want to redo - https://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/ it's currently 6K lines of Perl.
<ondrej> ScottK: I see. I don't have time for any job, I was just interested
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> have you ever tried doing "sudo chmod 644 /"? (don't do it)
<ajmitch> sounds like a silly thing to do
<ajmitch> how far does it boot?
<RainC1> I've been like 10 minutes hitting the PC (well, actually unmounting it because the damn CD reader is broken and didn't want to open) until I remembered I've a Gutsy install that should be working :P
<RainC1> anyways.. what's about patching chmod (for Hardy) in order that it asks for confirmation before doing that stupid things lol. I think most of the users wouldn't have much of a clue what to do if they have the great idea to try this.. :P
<ScottK> RainC1: What's the complete list of stupid user tricks you think should be banned?
<ScottK> Hint: This is a slippery slope.
<RainCT> uh.. well, there would be time enough until Hardy to talk about it
<RainCT> s/talk/thing
<ajmitch> there are *far* too many ways to break a system
<RainCT> yes, so having less wouldn't be bad, or?
<RainCT> it's just an idea.. isn't that important to me, I just thought I would ask you what you think about it since if it happens to someone (imagine a bad copy-past from a tutorial) if suddently programs start crashing and the terminal won't accept any command it might be quite disappointing..
<RainCT> ok, I see it doesn't seems to be that a good idea.. :-p
<DktrKranz> keescook, mind looking at bug 152624?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152624 in nagios-plugins "Buffer overflow in check_http.c (CVE-2007-5198)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152624
<keescook> DktrKranz: sure, it's on my list for today (got email about it).   thanks!
<DktrKranz> I added a task for dapper too...original patch was not compatible, but it was just indentation issues
<ScottK> pkern_: pitti just killed openssl097, thanks for your help in that.
<gnomefreak> is there known issues with bzr package?
<gnomefreak> people are telling me it doesnt install :(
<nenolod> Adri2000, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/152918
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152918 in audacious-plugins "Try to replace libcurl.so from audacious-plugins-extra" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<nenolod> Adri2000, your non-maintainer upload broke the upgrade path :P
<Adri2000> nenolod: I know
<Adri2000> nenolod: TheMuso uploaded ubuntu4 to fix my mistake, it should be available soon
<ScottK> Unforunately the upload didn't make the archive freeze cutoff.  Since that file doesn't exist in Feisty, it won't affect upgraders, only people already on Gutsy.  We'll need to deal with it in gutsy-updates.
<nenolod> ScottK, no, because the file is provided by _two_ _packages_
<nenolod> ScottK, which makes the other package (audacious-plugins-extra) uninstallable unless you do a kludgy workaround
<ScottK> nenolod: At this point we need to get it into gutsy-updates as soon as we can.
<ScottK> At this point we'd be pretty close to delaying the entire Gutsy release to get it in and the release manager said no.
<nenolod> ok, fair enough
<Adri2000> ScottK: I can upload to -proposed directly right? (no ack needed or something?)
<ScottK> Adri2000: Yes.
<ScottK> Once it's there, we can bug an archive admin to copy it to updates tomorrow.
<persia> Adri2000: You'll want to follow the SRU process to get the package accepted after the upload
<persia> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<ScottK> Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Universe Freeze in effect, don't even ask start working on Gutsy SRUs. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
<ScottK> oops
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ScottK] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Universe Freeze in effect, don't even ask start working on Gutsy SRUs. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
* persia likes it
<TheMuso> ScottK: lol
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't that go at the end where it usually is?
<Fujitsu> I almost missed it.
<ScottK> Well it seemed like the lead story.
<persia> ScottK: Nah.  Archive freeze is old news.  So yesterday
<ScottK> Konversation doesn't wrap /topic, so I never see the stuff at the end unless I scroll over it.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<desertc> Re: Free Software games .... Considered ManiaDrive ?
<desertc> http://maniadrive.raydium.org/
<desertc> version 1.2 and 10,000s of tracks are available
<Adri2000> TheMuso: your audacious-plugins upload got rejected (too late) :/ so I'm preparing an upload to -proposed: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/audacious-plugins_1.3.5-3ubuntu3.1.debdiff < is it the same as what you did and tested?
<persia> desertc: bug #131108
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131108 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  Maniadrive" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131108
<ScottK> persia: Yesterday the archive was frozen.  Now it's FROZEN.
<persia> ScottK: methnks it's just cured.  There's still 1 source in "Accepted"
<TheMuso> Adri2000: You would have to do it with both packages would you not?
<slangasek> Adri2000: change of plans, I've just accepted it after all
<slangasek> sorry for the flip-flop
<ScottK> I'm sure he doesn't mind.
<persia> Adri2000: You can grab the rejected source from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=4&queue_text=
<ScottK> persia: Yes, it's not FROZEN, FROZEN, really I mean it yet.
<Fujitsu> Still slushy, I'd say.
<slangasek> our timeline on the dak stuff got pushed back somewhat involuntarily, which gave me an opportunity to take a second look
<Adri2000> slangasek: ah! great, thanks, that will make things easier :)
<persia> Fujitsu: More than that.  Think concrete, after a day or so of curing.  It's still not ready to dismantle the forms, but it's really hard to change now.
<slangasek> also, I just hit the overwrite issue when upgrading my own system, so naturally that makes it a higher prio ;)
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Hahah.
* persia hopes ubuntustudio-look will get the same second look for the same issue
<ScottK> slangasek: Thank you for all the attention you are paying to getting Universe right in the endgame.
<Fujitsu> Aw, are we using `Alpha' as the milestone for Hardy?
<slangasek> two minute build?  Yeah, let's go for it. :)
* persia understands that "Alpha" is intended as the milestone for all future releases
<slangasek> ScottK: heh, color me puzzled that this requires any thanks.. :)
<ScottK> slangasek: How about it hasn't always gone this way.
<persia> slangasek: It's effort on your part.  That's always appreciated.
<ScottK> persia: He's just accepted it.
* persia is watching, and somewhat puzzled not to see a 2203 publisher
<slangasek> publisher's on manual right now
<slangasek> since the only things being published are individually hand-held by the release team
<persia> Ah.  That's it.  We were wondering if it would go that way ~15 hours ago.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: What happens with binaries? Or do we not care if there are a tonne of hppa uploads post-freeze?
<slangasek> Fujitsu: that's an interesting question and I do not know the answer
<slangasek> but I assume that any binaries which land in gutsy after the hard freeze are SOL
<Fujitsu> slangasek: I'd presume so, but I don't think this has happened before.
<slangasek> which?
* ScottK recalls something lamont said along the lines of hppa gets as far as it gets for Gutsy and that's a win.
<Fujitsu> Having thousands of binaries unbuilt at release.
* persia notes that binaries also require manual publisher
<Fujitsu> persia: That's true.
<persia> Fujitsu: hppa is the only culprit
* TheMuso thinks the MOTUs present at UDS Boston owe the RMs a little something. :)
<imbrandon> TheMuso: there is always plenty o beer after hours :)
<ScottK> Particularly the ones that did after the 'freeze' uploads...
<TheMuso> ScottK: aye.
<Fujitsu> A new upstream release of KDE4 stuff at the 11th hour... how strange.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: howso ? they dont follow our release schedule
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-16
<norsetto_> g'night all
<alvinc> hey folks.  i'm trying to debmirror gutsy.  can someone recommend me a good source?
<alvinc> archive.ubuntu.com doesn't seem to have Release files setup.  i haven't looked that closely alas
<lamont> slangasek: binaries that land after release (or whatever - when the archive is locked down in LP) are SOL
<lamont> Fujitsu: has happened before
<lamont> slangasek: hppa got all of main (win).  universe is, um, universe...
<lamont> if people have gutsy/hppa universe packages that they really want to see in the archive, I'm happy to bump those to the head of the universe queue
<lamont> then again, I don't think many people care about hppa
<superm1> lamont, how come hppa is so far behind?
<lamont> superm1: because it started building about 2 weeks ago
<lamont> maybe 3.
<lamont> two buildds -> 5 weeks or so to build everything.  The non-LP archive is sitting at somewhere around 97% on graph2
<imbrandon> non-LP archive ?
<lamont> imbrandon: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/hppa/gutsy-stage0 main restricted universe multiverse
* lamont points at http://bld-4.mmjgroup.com/~wb/buildLogs/stats/gutsy.hppa.png
<lamont> see also gutsy-stage0.hppa.png
<lamont> http://bld-4.mmjgroup.com/~wb/buildLogs/stats/gutsy2-short-nohppa.png is more readable than http://bld-4.mmjgroup.com/~wb/buildLogs/stats/gutsy2-short.png for the other architectures
<TheMuso> /c/c~
<TheMuso> ugh
<imbrandon> ahh
<lamont> gutsy-stage0 has been slowly getting overwritten with debs from LP
<lamont> (as I smash them into that archive)
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon yawns
<zul> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya zul
<bddebian> Heya gang
* TheMuso turns his attention to specs.
<bddebian> They TheMuso, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya
<therethinker> is there a PDF of the Debian Policy Manual?
<zul> dont think so
<therethinker> found it
<therethinker> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/policy.pdf.gz
<gnrfan> therethinker: yeap those docs are in PDF always too
<therethinker> Thanks :-)
* persia grumbles about not being able to differentiate bugs targeted at gutsy from bugs targeted at hardy with "Nominate"
<Hobbsee> oh, hardy's not in there yet?
<persia> Hobbsee: It doesn't seem to be.  Do you have the magic powers required to poke the appropriate people?
<Hobbsee> nto at this time of day
<Hobbsee> and not when i'm heading out
<Hobbsee> not sure who the appropriate ppl are yet, tbh
<LaserJock> persia: have you looked for a bug report about that?
<Hobbsee> wont be a point doing a lp bug on it
<Hobbsee> it'll be a -drivers thing, i think
<persia> LaserJock: Not yet.  Does that work?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you think?
* persia thought so too
<LaserJock> I suppose that Hardy just needs to be created
<StevenK> I daresay Hardy will turn up soonish, after people have finished stressing about Gutsy
<Hobbsee> that'd be my guess, too
<LaserJock> but a "future" milestone should work, no?
<StevenK> There's a 'later' milestone, right?
<persia> StevenK: Right.  On the other hand, for bug management purposes, it'd be nice to be able to open a CVE bug, and mark that it not only needs to be fixed for hardy, but that we need to roll it back to gutsy as well.
* persia wasn't using milestones
<ScottK> speaking of CVE's...  Someone who has some time might want to look into Bug #152738 and see about *-security fixes for Feisty and however far back it needs to go.  I got the new version in Gutsy just under the wire.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152738 in knowledgeroot "UVFe [CVE-2007-5156]  disable uploads of unknown filetypes" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152738
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong window again...
<superm1> TheMuso, i've been using virtualbox so much that i catch myself pressing <right-ctrl> to leave Xchat windows :)
<TheMuso> superm1: lol
<StevenK> Sigh. Must remember if I ctrl-c tail -f, I *don't* end up killing the process that is logging.
<TheMuso> heh
<mertiki> Hello everyone, I fixed a bug which affect the Gutsy user interface in Qt3 apps and the maintainer of the package uploaded the patch. The only problem is that the fixed package isn't in the repositories and if Gutsy is released without that fixed package, it will be released with a folder with too restrictives permissions so it will be pretty more complicate to fix
<mertiki> Does somebody can help around this ?
<mertiki> Bug #145709
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145709 in qt-x11-free "7.10: Qt3 ~/.qt owner root and missing qtrc result result in ugly appearance" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145709
<imbrandon> mertiki: when was it uploaded and by who ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that'll be by Riddell
<mertiki> By Jonathan Riddell, 3 days ago
<imbrandon> mertiki: then i'm sure it will be taken care of, its just waiting in the queue i'm sure
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<ScottK> LaserJock: I thought the LP people said that the launchpad janitor bugs were all going to be reverted, but it's apparently started running again and is invaliding more bug.
<Hobbsee> hiya
<mertiki> imbradon : thanks, I wanted to make sure has I know the importance of that bug :)
<ScottK> bug/bugs
* persia has also found quite a few bugs that haven't been reverted
<LaserJock> ScottK: yeah, I got a couple new ones
<ScottK> I don't think they've reverted anything and are continuing to close bugs.
<LaserJock> I wonder if they were trying to fix something
<persia> Perhaps the reversion has been delayed until the 24th, along with the other LP updates?
<ScottK> Yes, but it was supposed to be stopped and reverted.
* Hobbsee suspects that he didn't upload it.
<ScottK> That was what we were told.
<ScottK> What has happened is the opposite.
<ScottK> More bugs getting closed.
<Hobbsee> no, it got rejected.
<persia> ScottK: #launchpad might have a reason
<LaserJock> yeah, they were going to test stuff first
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh, how useful
<mertiki> Hobbsee : The Riddell package got rejected?
<ScottK> persia: LaserJock is our liaison and stuff and I'm not at my polite best when talking with LP developers.  I thought it might be better to ask him to look into it.
<Hobbsee> mertiki: yes
* persia doesn't really care, as long as everything gets reset correctly in the not-too-distant future
<LaserJock> ScottK: will do
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Yes.  Good point :)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
<persia> LaserJock: Did you never find anyone else to liaison?
<LaserJock> I planned on talking with kiko about it
<LaserJock> I noticed that I got a couple of bugs
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: he's on holidays for 2 weeks
<mertiki> Hobbsee : Hum that's bad, can I do something to help around that? Because if Gutsy is released without that fix, all Qt3 apps will look ugly with big fonts
<Hobbsee> mertiki: trying to find out why it was rejected.
<mertiki> Hobbsee : Thanks
* ScottK recalls some discussion about the ugly font issue and a decision to push it to gutsy-updates at or very shortly after release.
<mertiki> the problem with the qt3 bugs is that the /etc/qt3 folder actually exist in Gutsy but has very low permissions, so if the package is fixed, it won't install properly because of that folder with wrong permissions
<mertiki> That's why I suggest fixing that bug before the stable release or the problems will be more complicate to fix just by update
<Hobbsee> mertiki: i cant do much until the europeans wake up, until i've found out who's rejected it, and why.
<Hobbsee> and that wont happen for another ~10 hours.
<ScottK> mertiki: For the release, what's done is done.
<mertiki> ScottK : Ok.. the release candidate means that it's too late?
<mertiki> Anyway, thanks a lot for your work on this. If you want more information about that bug, I wrote detailed reasons in the comment 7 of the LP : 145709
<Hobbsee> mertiki: um, no?  we have more stuff going in after the RC.
<persia> (but no more going in after Archive Freeze)
<ScottK> mertiki: No, but the archive is pretty frozen right now.
<mertiki> Ok I understand :)
<mertiki> Does somebody knows when the Hardy repositories will open ?
<TheMuso> WHenever they open.
<mertiki> that's a good answer :P
<TheMuso> As in, who knows.
* persia suggests reviewing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule to make a guess
<mertiki> Hum ok! Thanks
<Hobbsee> mertiki: few weeks after gutsy
<mertiki> Ok !
<mertiki> I go to bed now, @+ and thanks everyone
<Hobbsee> mertiki: it was because it was far too late, they want to upsh it to -updates
<ajmitch> hello
<persia> ajmitch: Hi!
<bddebian> Heya persia, ajmitch
<mertiki> Hobbsee : Ok! Too bad I found the problem this late, anyway, thanks again
<TheMuso> Youch dbian import freeze is early...
<TheMuso> Or has it always been that early in the cycle?
* persia thought it was usually +6 weeks.  That looks late.
<mertiki> Hobbsee : One last thing : I think that my patch won't be enough to fix the problem if it's not released with Gutsy, so further work will have to be done on this.
<Hobbsee> mertiki: tell slangasek that when he wakes up.  he and Riddell made that decision
<mertiki> Hobbsee: I will
<TheMuso> And it looks like the toolchain should be ready by next thursday, according to that schedule.
<persia> mertiki: Do you mean the permissions issue or the missing configuration issue?  The latter is fairly easy to workaround with the right scripts (although harder than the current state).
<ajmitch> persia: maybe because hardy is LTS, so less time to import debian crack
<persia> ajmitch:That sounds ideal to me: see my new agenda item for Friday
* ajmitch waits
<ajmitch> I see
<TheMuso> persia: Aye, good item.
<ScottK> persia: As part of your preparation for discussing that item, I'd suggest making sure you are familiar with pitti's proposed (and now planned AFAIK) simplified freeze structure.
<persia> ScottK: Documentation pointer?
* Hobbsee wonders what the item is
* ScottK recalls it on ubuntu-devel.  Let me see what I can find.
* persia suggests Hobbsee  subscribe to the MOTU meeting agenda
<Hobbsee> hm, there's an idea.
<Hobbsee> link?  :)
<ScottK> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#head-93c8a38bbc124f5d34af970893deffc4bc91700e
<persia> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<ScottK> persia: First message in the thread: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-September/024278.html
<Hobbsee> thanks.  i'm lazy
<persia> ScottK: I'm actually in agreement with merging FeatureFreeze, UpstreamVersionFreeze, and NewPackagesUniverseFreeze all into "Feature Freeze".  I just want it to happen extra early for hardy - it's more work for motu-uvf, but we should have a better chance of fixing all the FTBFS, unmetdeps, etc. before release.
<imbrandon> ugh, and now it starts, people upgrading before its ready http://digg.com/linux_unix/Upgrading_to_Ubuntu_7_10_NOW_before_the_rush
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's expected
<ajmitch> no doubt the motu-uvf team will happily cope
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I think what pitti proposed is now the baseline from which we should discuss any Universe unique changes.
* ScottK has done his turn on the firing line.
<persia> ScottK: I'm not opposed, but I'd rather have the discussion Friday.
* ajmitch isn't qualified for -uvf, it requires an active MOTU
<ScottK> Right.  Just wanted to make sure you were aware.
<persia> For now, I'm basing it on the draft Hardy release schedule, as the most official document I could find.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you're on the council. you trump all o fus.
<persia> imbrandon: Now that everything (except OOo for sparc) is accepted, is there really any harm in users pulling an update?  I thought we were just building CDs and preparing support infrasrtucture at this point.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: for now
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh, you're quitting too?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: and how can you say that, being on both archive & release teams?
<Hobbsee> persia: i doubt that's final, or anywhere near it yet.  there's usually a BOF about such things
* ajmitch shrugs
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: easily - just because i'm on those teams doesnt mean that i have access - or access that i'm allowed to use
<persia> Hobbsee: Completely understood.  I'm hoping we can get consensus on some Universe matters as input to the BOF
* Hobbsee wont be there, so contact teh people who will be :)
* persia expects to elicit a volunteer at the meeting.
<ajmitch> just because I'm on the MC doesn't mean that I can do anything apart from smile & say nice things about people applying for MOTU
* ajmitch won't be at the meeting
<persia> ajmitch: You could scowl and say unpleasant things.
* ajmitch won't be at UDS either, for that matter
<ajmitch> nor do I expect to be around on voip for UDS
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  how do you think I feel?
<ajmitch> bluefoxicy: do I care? :)
<bluefoxicy> The maintainer of pax-utils asked me to update it to the latest version at the beginning of gutsy and I never did D:
<bluefoxicy> err, the developer
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: yes, but you suck.
<bluefoxicy> apparently I'm the maintainer
<Hobbsee> it's too late now, i'll just reject your upload.
* Hobbsee can still do that safely :P
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  Irrelevant!  Sucking has nothing to do with packaging!
<bluefoxicy> Sucking is for cleaning things and drinking fountain sodas.
* Hobbsee wonders how well the voip will work this time anyway
<ajmitch> it probably won't
<persia> Why shouldn't VoIP work?
<ajmitch> it never has worked very well, usually due to poor microphones, noisy rooms, etc
<ScottK> Because tcp/ip isn't designed for that kind of thing.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: the recent lot wasnt so bad, iirc
<ajmitch> then it's just timezones that will hate me :)
<bddebian> Wow is swi-prolog ugly
<mdomsch> pardon my ignorance, but do I read StableReleaseUpdates to mean that after release, no new packages for a given release are added to universe?
<ajmitch> mdomsch: correct
<ajmitch> a release doesn't get added to, except via -backports which are unsupported
<LaserJock> mdomsch: only specific, important bug fixes
<Hobbsee> greetings, mdomsch
<mdomsch> ok, that's good to know - and is different than my experience with other distros
* mdomsch is preparing some packages for hardy for updating Dell firmwares
<mdomsch> good evening Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: being dell, i've no idea if you can shove your fixes into -updates - whether the rules differ for you
<ajmitch> no doubt there'll be some flexibility where required
<mdomsch> I'm not looking to bend the rules (yet :-) - just understand them for now
<Hobbsee> haha :)
<ajmitch> rules are bent often enough around here
<Hobbsee> oh, fricking hell.  why are people really lazy, and not checking if their packages install and upgrade?
<bddebian> Say it isn't so.. :-)
<Hobbsee> there's a hook in pbuilder, it's not that hard.
* StevenK hands Hobbsee a soapbox
* ajmitch finds some earplugs
* Hobbsee tickles ajmitch
<ajmitch> heh
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: What package?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yours, Adri2000's, open office
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: They still causing problems?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: nah
<Hobbsee> well, the ooo may well be
* TheMuso sighs with relief.
<imbrandon> gnight
<imbrandon> all
<ajmitch> night imbrandon
<bddebian> Gnight imbrandon
<ScottK> mdomsch: I wonder if it would be useful to get stuff like DKMS into Debian proper and let Ubuntu import it from there?
<mdomsch> ScottK, yes it would, however the road to being a DD is longer than the road to being a MOTU
<mdomsch> and we're not shipping debian
<mdomsch> so while I'm having a hard time getting a teammate to step up and become a MOTU
<mdomsch> it's an even harder sell to have them spend time becoming a DD
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: some people here are also DD's, adn therefore can sponsor, if that's a help
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: what, you dont want to be the only one doing it?  :)
<mdomsch> that I'm doing it indicates my whip isn't long enough to reach the right people :-)
<mdomsch> but it's fun to learn too
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: ahh, so you're one of the high up ones?  i see.
* mdomsch just found out that Provides aren't versioned
<mdomsch> ++ungood
<mdomsch> yeah, I've been here longest of anyone doing Linux
<ajmitch> that's expected, since Provides is for virtual packages
* mdomsch could take this to ubuntu-devel, but...
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: ah, interesting.
<mdomsch> so we've got BIOS payload packags
<mdomsch> in RPM right now
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: here works.  either's fairly quiet, and we cant upload random crack now anyway
<mdomsch> in RPM we say package name is system_bios_ven_0x1028_dev_0x01a8, version is A08
<mdomsch> then later, we learn that dev_0x01a8 is really marketing name for "Precision 380"
<Hobbsee> because giving out sane names is really quite boring :)
<mdomsch> so, in the RPM we change the name to system_bios_Precision_380, and obsolete and provide the old name and version
<persia> mdomsch: You could use versioned conflicts: and replaces: to the old name, and a new upload of the old package that has versioned depends on the new package, just to force upgrades.
<mdomsch> I don't want to force upgrades, I want them to happen naturally (e.g. when version A09 is out and pacakged with the new name)
<mdomsch> I think because it's a one-time rename, it'll work out
<persia> mdomsch:  Right, and you want to use a new source name, correct?
<mdomsch> right
<persia> So, BIOS_S3kret-1 is just a normal package.
<bddebian> heh
* Hobbsee does a double take over the name.
<Hobbsee> surely that should go in -partner?  :P
<persia> BIOS_Release_name conflicts and replaces BIOS_S3kret <= 1
<mdomsch> yes
<persia> BIOS_S3kret-2 is a meta-package only depending on BIOS_Release_name
<persia> So, those who installed BIOS_S3kret get the updates, which are all managed in BIOS_Release_name.  Those who installed BIOS_Release_name never had any issues.
<persia> Ah.  Right.  Of course.  It should be BIOS_S3kret-0.72-1.  Sorry for the confusion.
<Hobbsee> persia: is the -2 part of the name of the source here?  or is that version?
<mdomsch> ok, and I still need BIOS_Release_name to Provide something
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: no you dont - conflicts adn replaces do that.  you dont need provides at all - unless i'm misreading you.
<mdomsch> because in fact we ask apt for the virtual package
<persia> mdomsch: It can provide BIOS_S3kret.
<mdomsch> yes
<mdomsch> that will work
<persia> And when you update OEM-settings-meta, you can change the depends.
* Hobbsee grubmles about provides.
<Hobbsee> persia: please tell me that you're working around the apt bug that happens when multiple packages provide teh same package.
<persia> Thinking, I agree with Hobbsee: skip the provides.  The update to OEM-settings-meta should do the job nicely, and conflicts/depends is clean.
<Hobbsee> persia: s/depends/replaces/?
<persia> Hobbsee: No.  Just working around an attempt to use versioned provides
<Hobbsee> persia: right, but you do want to avoid the apt bug as well.
<Hobbsee> (causes lovely things like bibletime to be installed in arabic, by default)
<persia> good conflicts bad, meta update changes depends (I should have written conflicts/replaces/depends)
<mdomsch> http://pastebin.domsch.com/11 shows an example of what we pass to apt-get install
<Hobbsee> persia: ah right
<persia> Hobbsee: That only happens with | - not an issue when the meta-package depends on a real package.
<persia> Those are all package names?
<joejaxx> persia: with the blank triggers for dpkg are those executed everytime dpkg runs instead of an individual package? or are they just there
<Hobbsee> persia: unsure where the | comes into it, but yes, it'd be depended on a virtualpackage, i see.
<mdomsch> persia, those are virtual provides in RPMs, yes
<joejaxx> instead of being triggered by an individual package*
* Hobbsee wonders who stole her brain.
<persia> joejaxx: You're imagining I have a slightly better understanding than I do :)
* joejaxx waves it around
* Hobbsee steals it back of joejaxx.  i need that!
<persia> My base understanding is that they are managed by particular packages, but the ldconfig wrapper script makes lots of packages use triggers.
<persia> mdomsch: OK.  So the RPM Provides: all the listed packages (with names like "pci_firmware(ven_0x8086_dev_0x27d8_subven_0x1028_subdev_0x01a8)/system(ven_0x1028_dev_0x01a8)")?
<mdomsch> yes
<joejaxx> persia: i am wondering what the blank triggers are for if they do not specify any packages in them :)
<persia> Ah.  That looked like a function call rather than a package name :)
<mdomsch> yum install $(inventory_firmware -b) finds the highest versioned package that Provides those things
<mdomsch> acts similar to apt-get -m install ...
<persia> You could do it with provides for all the names, but you'd just be polluting the namespace, in my opinion.  What generalised behaviour do you seek from OEM-settings-meta?
<mdomsch> persia, right now we've got system BIOS for 240+ systems available in RPMs
<mdomsch> so you can do
<mdomsch> yum install $(inventory_firmware -b)
<mdomsch> update_firmware
<mdomsch> and it downloads the latest firmware for your system, and installs it
<mdomsch> http://linux.dell.com/firmware-tools/
<persia> Ah.  So inventory_firmware -b checks the state of the local HW to build the list of names, and then looks for the packages (named whatever) that provide the named values in order to install the correct updated firmware?
<mdomsch> has papers etc on the whole firmware-tools thing
<mdomsch> bingo
<mdomsch> I'm trying to get this into debs now
<mdomsch> 2/3 of the way done
<mdomsch> firmware-tools and firmware-addon-dell packages are pretty much done
<joejaxx> anyone else know what the blank dpkg triggers do? :)
<mdomsch> now I'm working on the template for the bios payload files
<persia> Right.  Just add unversioned provides of BIOS_S3kret to BIOS_Release, and do versioned conflicts/replaces on BIOS/S3kret in BIOS_Release.  apt / aptitude / libept will do the right thing.  I'd also advise uploading post-name-change BIOS_S3kret binaries that depend on the appropriate BIOS_Release, just to be clean.
<mdomsch> persia, got it, thanks!
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: stupid question, but are you intending to get this in for gutsy?
<persia> mdomsch: If you could also do an update of firmware-tools-data to change the mapping between raw hex codes and desired packages to match the new names, it would be extra nice, but that may be harder to keep in sync.
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, no
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, if my minions had finished the work they started in May, yes
* persia thinks mdomsch should have a separate support repository by default for BIOS, etc.
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: oh good, just checking
<Hobbsee> (yay, minions)
* Hobbsee goes and looks for *her* whip, for said minions.
<joejaxx> lol
<mdomsch> persia, http://linux.dell.com/repo/firmware will be exactly that
* ajmitch stole it
* Hobbsee beats ajmitch.  give it back!
<mdomsch> persia, that exists for RPMs today, will add debs soon as this works
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: have you thought about pushing this to -partner?
<mdomsch> we've also got a repo/software, into which we'll put our own stuff that didn't make gutsy
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: so you can get it in for gutsy (later?)
<persia> mdomsch.  That's really clean.  Are you pre-feeding the signing keys, etc.?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you have your stick, no need for a whip as well
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, not sure, I haven't heard of -partner
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: it's the old commercial, but i've no idea of it's status.
<mdomsch> persia, not sure how to do the pre-feeding yet - just figured out how to create and sign a repo
<Hobbsee> s/commercial/-commercial/
<mdomsch> I'm fine with putting them on linux.dell.com - it's fast and easy
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: might want to stick it in a ppa, too, so you dont have to do your own repo.  oh wait, you cant sign them that wya.
<mdomsch> I have to sign all the payload debs anyhow with Dell's key
<Hobbsee> hm
<Hobbsee> yeah
<persia> mdomsch: I don't have as much knowledge about oem-install as I'd like, but I think you want to make sure that apt knows about the key used to sign the bios repository by default, as otherwise users will be given a security warning.
<mdomsch> apt-key add foo
<mdomsch> ok, I'll remind our folks to do that
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: oh, i see.  yes, that's a pain, then, because you cant sign it with the ubuntu archive key.
<mdomsch> michael brown is working on the installer
<persia> Sure, but you have to run that on install.  When you do that it actually populates a text file somewhere, which could probably be prestuffed into your CD/image/whatever
<mdomsch> yeah - he can make it apt-get add ourkeyfiles
<mdomsch> that's a good idea, I hadn't gotten there yet
<mdomsch> I just figured out the signing thing 30 minutes ago
<StevenK> The signing thing is complicated at best anyway
<Hobbsee> persia: you're meaning about preseeding ubiquity?
<StevenK> (Bloody impossible at worst)
<mdomsch> it's not too bad as long as your directory structure matches what apt-ftparchive and apt-get expect
<mdomsch> if it doesn't (and mine didn't for a while), you're hozed
<persia> Hobbsee: Something like that: I thought oem-install was a little more flexible (although I'm not by any means an expert)
<Hobbsee> persia: ah, i might be confusing migration-assistant and oem-install, seeing as the recent discussions have been on the former
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: for hardy and beyond, are you adding files to our cds, or are you remastering our cds, and adding dell stuff?
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: (and what stuff is added on the dell cds now anyway?)
* Hobbsee is still trying to figure out how this is all working.
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, I believe everything we need is in gutsy now :-)
<mdomsch> we've been filing issues and getting stuff in and fixed
<mdomsch> we'll continue to do that
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: oh neat!  so what did you end up doing when you first did ubuntu on the dells?
<Hobbsee> cd image-wise.
<mdomsch> like right now, we only have 1 add-on module - for our modems, so we drop that in factory-installed, and post on the web
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<mdomsch> nothing at first cd image-wise
<Hobbsee> right
<mdomsch> just the stock CDs
<Hobbsee> interesting.
<mdomsch> then after a bit we had to respin the CDs to fix 3 drivers needed at install time
<mdomsch> because driver disks at install never worked - they do now in gutsy
* Hobbsee nods
* Hobbsee loosk at the time.  eek.
* ajmitch wouldn't mind a new laptop
<ajmitch> no doubt it'd take awhile before linux on dells is available here
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: they'll come to us, before they come to you.  we're bigger :P
<mdomsch> ajmitch, you're where?
<ajmitch> NZ
<persia> ajmitch: Just pay the tax, and point at the repo mentioned above :)
<mdomsch> we're getting there - slowly...
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: but au first, right?
<ajmitch> persia: can't be bothered :)
<ajmitch> I probably won't replace my laptop for at least a year or so
<mdomsch> I don't honestly know who's next
* LaserJock keeps going to Walmart looking for a laptop with Ubuntu on it ;-)
<ajmitch> I didn't expect you would know the mind of the marketing & sales people :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that depends on hwo far his whip extends
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and on that note, please, can i have my whip back, and my big piece of concrete?
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch hands them back to Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> wha?
<LaserJock> you can't do that
* persia has never seen how the big piece of concrete is used
<Hobbsee> thankyou
* Hobbsee takes them off, and runs away
<ajmitch> LaserJock: she'll beat me up otherwise!
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, i do occasionally at wokr :P
<persia> ajmitch: You have to get the stick first
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's why you steal her point stick of DOOM
<mdomsch> must sleep
<mdomsch> thanks for the pointers tonight
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: you found the crazy-land, methinks.
<ajmitch> night mdomsch :)
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock and persia with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
* Hobbsee heads to work
* Hobbsee really will be DOOOOOM'ed there.
* LaserJock obliterates the DOOM stick with his MegaUltraUberLaser!!!!
* persia fails to get useful /whois information from MegaUltraUberLaser
<ajmitch> bye Hobbsee :)
<LaserJock> persia: super ultra government secret
<persia> Ahh...
<ajmitch> LaserJock: then why are you telling us about it?
<LaserJock> oohhh, right
<LaserJock> hmmm
* LaserJock whips out his government-issue memory eraser
<LaserJock> now everybody look over here!
* ajmitch looks the other way
<StevenK> If it's US government issue, it won't work ...
<LaserJock> dang it, no batteries
<ajmitch> StevenK: but everyone knows that the us government has covered up countless conspiracies
* ajmitch wanders off home
<persia> I expressly disclaim having covered anything up during the period I certainly wasn't working for the US government
<luk_> so you kind of agree that you were covering things up while you were working for the US government? :-)
<persia> luk_: I prefer to think of it as a wordy "no comment"
<shirish> Hi all, no programmer here, just somebody who's curious/interested to know stuff about debian/rules & make
* persia thinks there is a rules / make section in the packaging manual
<shirish> persia there is , I've read it but still couple of things are not clear to me.
<persia> shirish: Which page doesn't include the complete answer?
<shirish> persia: it may have but I'm trouble understanding the same. https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<persia> OK.  Which part don't you understand?
<shirish> I'm trying to understand the binary-arch section therein
<persia> The binary-arch rule is called to construct an architecture-specific .deb file for the source.
<shirish> persia: for e.g. I have an p4 i386 architecture, so if I wanted to compile a program so it builds for my specific machine, is there a specific way to do that? Also can I give some sort of flag to make so it compiles specifically for my system
<shirish> persia: sorry if the question is confusing, I'm confused ;)
<persia> The build system should autopopulate your build archicture (I think it's $DEB_BUILD_ARCH), so you don't have to do anything special.
<persia> shirish: You might get more information from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch04.html
<shirish> persia: thanx a lot ;)
<imbrandon> ldd /usr/bin/AbiWord-2.4
<imbrandon> err
* imbrandon guesses that wont work in irssi *doh*
<jdong> linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe0000)
<jdong> ;-)
<persia> imbrandon: You just need to install the right bot :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> talk about chan spam
<imbrandon> persia: i'm tinkering with that idea we had the other night
<imbrandon> cant sleep
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> imbrandon: The maintainer-in-a-box idea?
<imbrandon> yea
<persia> How's progress?
<imbrandon> throwing togather some simple bash scripts to do it first, just kinda a proof of concept type thing
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Whats the idea?
<TheMuso> 3~/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<imbrandon> TheMuso: a GUI something between a live MOTU and checkinstall
<imbrandon> fist step add proper dependancy resolution to checkinstall
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Um...
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Why?
<jdong> imbrandon: so something like dh_make on steroids?
<persia> TheMuso: This isn't something we would use, but something to suggest in preference to checkinstall for upstreams / getdeb crack addicts
<ajmitch> TheMuso: he likes crack
<TheMuso> persia: Ah ok.
<imbrandon> exactly
<persia> Also, if we had support scripts that could accurately test things like "Are the dependencies correct", we'd have stronger QA in general.
<TheMuso> Dep checking is something that *has* to be done by hand IMO.
<TheMuso> Short of already having a built binary to get shlibs info from.
<TheMuso> Even then...
<pwnguin> bingo
<persia> TheMuso: Why?  If you can determine the target language, and you have all the correct build-deps installed at test time, can't you ust trace?
<persia> s/ust/just/
<jdong> TheMuso: you can also probably use some form of inotify/strace-on-open() hooked up to apt-file search
<TheMuso> persia: I guess so, but I still don't like the idea.
<persia> TheMuso: Why not?  Is checkinstall better?
<TheMuso> persia: Of course not, but afaik it doesn't do dep checking.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: thats the idea, build it fist localy , check deps, make chroot, get deps build clean , all auto
<persia> jdong: That sounds painful :(
<imbrandon> and 99% likely upstream will be building it localy and have the deps installed to begin with, and thats the target
<pwnguin> instead of the developer identifying build deps explicitly, they set up their build, and then apt-file hits some massive search
* persia likes ldd better than apt-file
<pwnguin> you'd need both
<pwnguin> ldd into apt-file
<persia> pwnguin: Why?  The tool is intended for upstreams.  They already have everything installed.
<pwnguin> because check install already does that crap
<imbrandon> checkinstall dosent
<imbrandon> it dose no dep check whats so ever
<jdong> checkinstall does nothing but put installed files into a data.tar.gz
<pwnguin> thats what i mean
<jdong> while imbrandon's idea can potentially generate like 95% debian source packages
<jdong> 95% correct
<persia> pwnguin: The idea is to pre-populate the control file
<pwnguin> i know
<pwnguin> ldd tells you which libraries you need. apt-file tells you which libraries are in which package. seems simple to me
<imbrandon> something similar to `ldd /some/bin|cut -f 2 -d "blah"|apt-file search -`
<pwnguin> however
<pwnguin> ldd isn't nessecarily the entire story on build deps i dont think
<jdong> pwnguin: strace/inotify would be :D
* TheMuso prefers objdump -p | grep NEEDED
<TheMuso> Which gives you a list of the shared libs a binary is linked against, and no deeper.
<pwnguin> jdong: i'd bet it grabs /etc/passwd :P
<jdong> pwnguin: also we can have simple static heuristics on what libfoo translates to what libfoo-dev
<TheMuso> whereas ldd gives you the lot.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: nice
<jdong> imbrandon: have you fired this idea off to a mailing list yet? I think it'd be really cool to discuss
<imbrandon> jdong: yea i'm writing a spec too, just craping out some proof of concept scripts first
<jdong> awesome
<TheMuso> imbrandon: You going to be at UDS
<persia> TheMuso: That's much cleaner.  Thanks.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: trying to get there, jorge is working on some $$ options
<TheMuso> persia: np.
<TheMuso> One could always look at how dh_shlibs does it.
<TheMuso> dh_shlibdeps even
<TheMuso> ah it uses dpkg--shlibdeps
<persia> TheMuso: And then just use grep-dctrl to get the appropriate -dev for the linked libraries?
<TheMuso> persia: I guess so.
* TheMuso should really work on his ubuntu cd sync script, and get it back into ubuntu-dev-tools.
<imbrandon> brandon@hood:~/files/easybuild$ apt-file search libz.so.1
<imbrandon> lib64z1: usr/lib64/libz.so.1
<imbrandon> lib64z1: usr/lib64/libz.so.1.2.3.3
<imbrandon> zlib1g: usr/lib/libz.so.1
<imbrandon> zlib1g: usr/lib/libz.so.1.2.3.3
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> more than one
<persia> imbrandon: perhaps local heuristics to never use lib64 or lib32 by default?  While it's sometimes correct, it seems like a special case.
* TheMuso needs to get amd64 hardware...
<persia> TheMuso: You have deep envy for the /usr/lib32/ directory?
<TheMuso> persia: At least to learn about all that kinda stuff re 32/64 libs, etc.
<TheMuso> And, I desire a multi-core CPU for development/audio work.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  Makes sense.
* TheMuso thinks if he went a quad core, that should last him another 4/5 years like this P4 has.
<persia> The Muso: what sort of contention are you reaching now?  Depending on your workload, you may be as well served by two faster cores.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah, thats what I'm trying to weigh up.
<imbrandon> persia: hrm why not just use something like `mkdir debian && dpkg-shlibdeps /usr/bin/AbiWord-2.4 && cd debian/ && cat substvars``
<persia> TheMuso: Another way to ask the question is how many virtual synths / effects you plan to run.  If it's >= 5, you probably want quad.
<TheMuso> persia: Thats the thing, it may be a few, as there are some VST plugins that look really nice, particularly Native Instrument's Hamond plugin.
<persia> imbrandon: Hrm.  Maybe.  I'm thinking more in-context, so that you'd be in a maintainers directory, and you'd have prepopulated most of debian/ so you will be generating substvars as part of the first cycle build (if you've detected a language that requires this).  It's more taking the output of substvars & getting the right -dev packages for build-depends.
<persia> (otherwise, it's just {shlibs:Depends}
<persia> )
<imbrandon> hrm true
<persia> TheMuso: quad is probably good, although depending on your budget, you might consider that the kernel supports Kore
<imbrandon> crap , what about things like autotools etc that are only build-deps not runtime deps ?
<TheMuso> persia: kore?
<persia> TheMuso: Native Instruments Kore : outboard VST host with USB control
<persia> imbrandon: You'll need heaps of heuristics.  Autotools is easy when compared to properly differentiating all the scripting languages, and grabbing their internal dependency information (at least python, perl, and ruby make this a little easier)
<imbrandon> right
<pkern_> persia: re yesterday: Should I setup a debcheck for hardy?
<pkern> ScottK: Do you remember the nick of the person who wanted to test the firehol SRU?  He already installed the version out of proposed and confused me with it, but in the end confirmed on IRC *only* that it worked correctly.
<TheMuso> persia: ooooo
<persia> pkern: I think Fujitsu is running that.  I thought we were talking about FTBFS detection.
<StevenK> persia: Right.
<persia> TheMuso: Yep.  I don't know if the Kore VSTs work with linux hosts, but at least the USB driver is in the kernel.
<TheMuso> persia: So the kore hardware uses different type of VST plugins?
* TheMuso googles for kore.
<persia> TheMuso: There are special "Kore" version VSTs that mimic the standard GUIs and use the Kore for processing.  If hosting those doesn't work directly, one can treat it as an outboard synth with USB audio, but that's not as interactive.
<TheMuso> right.
<pkern> persia: Both, in fact.  Both unmetdeps and FTBFS must be resolved to ensure consistency of the distribution.  Do you happen to know if there is some public URL of Fujitsu's instance?
<TheMuso> persia: Thats only useful if I was using heaps of VSTs. I'd likely only use 1, if not 2.
<persia> TheMuso: Huh?  Offboard hosts means less onboard cores.
<TheMuso> persia: It needs a software app to run it.
<TheMuso> Or does it actually use the external hardware to do the DSP?
<TheMuso> Nevertheless, you do need to run the app on your machine to use it.
<persia> TheMuso: It actually uses the hardware DSP, and it has an offline mode, so if you load the synths, you can drive it with MIDI alone.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Anyway, I'll keep it in mind.
<persia> pkern: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-August/002045.html represents my latest knowledge of the existing tools.
<persia> Umm..  Except the RC bugs list moved to django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> argh
<pkern> persia: Hm.  FTBFS bugs on Debian are filed by the buildd maints pretty reliably. On LP the go pretty much unnoticed (for synced universe packages).  We have that information in LP +builds but don't use it?
<persia> pkern: That's half the issue.  The other half is detecting packages that have not tried to build during the current release cycle (sometimes we go > 1 year between compilations, and unsuprisingly find the package now FTBFS)
<pkern> persia: Right.
<pkern> persia: But then all this information is *currently* not easily retrievable from LP.
<persia> pkern: Right.  If you can come up with some good ideas about a possible UI, preparing a draft spec for MOTU review and eventual submission to LP would be great.
<persia> Alternately, if you can determine a way to scrape it from the current interface (or email lists + repo data) and show it external, that works as well.
<pkern> I WON'T SCRAPE, DAMN IT.
<pkern> Sorry. \:
<persia> pkern: That's probably better anyway :)  I think there might be some text or xml exports available (you'd want to ask someone more informed) that might make it less painful to use LP as a service, in case that makes a difference.
<imbrandon> hrm is there no /etc/inittab in ubuntu
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Not since we moved to upstart.
<imbrandon> ugh ok, whats the qequiv ?
<imbrandon> equiv?
<Amaranth> /etc/event.d/?
<Fujitsu> Something in there, probably.
<Amaranth> rcS is the one that drives the legacy boot
<Amaranth> I don't think an inittab equivalent exists
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: What are you looking to change?
<imbrandon> the tty1 spawn
<imbrandon> i got it
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ah, yeah.
<imbrandon> /sbin/getty -n -l /usr/local/sbin/autologin 38400 tty1
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> lets hope i dont screw the pooch on this one
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> \untested code
<Amaranth> Well, you always have tty2 :P
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> made a little C app to autologin tty1 , then bash_profile to startx and xinit to startfluxbox
* imbrandon crosses fingers
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> all to get rid of gdm and autologin
<imbrandon> shesh
<imbrandon> but with 64mb ram, i need to have as little running as possible ;)
<imbrandon> ok anyhow, back in a few ( if it works )
<persia> imbrandon: xdm is a little lighter, if you like...
<imbrandon> persia: yea if this dont work thats the next thing
<imbrandon> bbiab
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<imbrandon> heya dholbach , rebooting brb
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<persia> Could someone in -security (or wherever one must be) please mark bug #152964 as public?
<ubotu> Bug 152964 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/152964 is private
<pkern> Package declares a build time dependency on aolserver4-dev (>= 4.0+cvs20040121-2) which cannot be satisfied on powerpc. aolserver4-dev (>= 4.0+cvs20040121-2) 4.5.0-10ubuntu1 is available.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Did you get my PM?
<pkern> That debcheck is broken somehow.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Is that mine?
<persia> pkern: That was true 24 hours ago.  The fix just went in overnight.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Yes.
* Fujitsu looks.
<pkern> persia: Point is rather debcheck borkage. I don't care about that information. The package obviously isn't broken if a sufficient package is available.
<Fujitsu> Um, woah, something is really broken.
<Fujitsu> 879 unmetdeps on all archs? I doubt it.
* Fujitsu pokes around.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Indeed.
<persia> pkern: 4.5.0-10ubuntu1 could not be installed
<Fujitsu> persia: It doesn't check that.
<pkern> Then take http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=gutsy&package=kdeutils
<imbrandon> woot, from power button to fluxbox desktop with *no* interaction and no hickups
<persia> Odd.  That was the problem.  Oh well...
<persia> imbrandon: With menus too?
<pkern> Fujitsu: It doesn't consider newer packages to be sufficient somehow, although it notices them.
<imbrandon> persia: yup
<imbrandon> ok nuff playing for me, night all
<TheMuso> How often does the PPA publisher run?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Yup, was just doing other work.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Every 20 minutes.
<Fujitsu> 0, 20, 40.
<TheMuso> StevenK: np
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Thanks
<TheMuso> StevenK: I just thought there was a problem along the way re freenode somewhere...
<TheMuso> no hurry
<Fujitsu> pkern: I think the machine it was running on ran out of RAM, which would mean the version comparison would always fail. Rerunning now...
<Fujitsu> Bah, rsync on archive.ubuntu.com is really slow at the moment.
<pkern> Fujitsu: So you really need a local mirror and Packages information is not sufficient?
<Fujitsu> pkern: It only mirror dists/
<Fujitsu> *mirrors
<pkern> Fujitsu: Ah ok. I just fetch that with wget for sourcedeps.
<pkern> BTW: Does Ubuntu enable pdiffs for released distributions? Probably not?
<Fujitsu> pkern: Soyuz doesn't do them, so no.
<Fujitsu> pkern: The debcheck run just finished - everything looks good.
* Fujitsu adds some more swap.
<pkern> Looks better, thanks.
<pkern> And bunch of apache modules with broken depends because apache-dev 1.x is no longer available.
<pkern> s/And/A/
<pkern> Fujitsu: Looks not too bad overall.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> Most of it is apache.
<Fujitsu> (most of the breakage on every arch, that is)
<pkern> The "Depends Main on !Main" part is also quite important because universe might be deactivated and aptitude will choke.
<persia> Most of those seem to be Recommends.  I thought that was acceptable.
<pkern> persia: Hm ok then.  I'd guess I'll have to try that out.
<Fujitsu> It's not acceptable in Debian, and that's where I stole the code from :P
<persia> Fujitsu: Is it acceptable for Ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> persia: There's no policy... you'd have to ask somebody more powerful.
<persia> Fujitsu: "powerful"?  Perhaps I could force a decision from them, but you seem to be a respository of all knowledge that has passed this channel since at least edgy (if not earlier)
<Fujitsu> Hah. I don't deal with much main stuff, and I've never seen a policy on Recommends. If there's a lot of stuff in main that Recommends stuff elsewhere, then it's probably not against policy.
<pkern> Hm, it looks good. Just tried tracker and aptitude just puts an unavailable stamp on the list.
<pkern> i.e. you won't notice the missing recommends.
<persia> Well, one might notice, but it's not actually deeply broken.
<Fujitsu> anastacia does the main dependencies anyway.
<TheMuso> c
<pkern> anastacia?  That must be an Ubuntu girl, it's certainly not canonic (i.e. dak)! :-P
<TheMuso> gah wrong tab
<persia> pkern: She is.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Yeah, anastactia and gina are the two new Ubuntu ones, IIRC.
<Fujitsu> Bah, anastacia.
* persia thinks there are more than two - look at the names documentation in the dak source
<Fujitsu> persia: That seems unmodified from Debian... would it have Ubuntu ones in it?
<pkern> Fujitsu: What does anastacia do?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  There's a shared effort to make sure names stay unique.  Given the specific personalities involved in dak management and Ubuntu archive management, I can understand the impulse.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Checks that things in main don't depend on other components.
<Fujitsu> And also notes if things are in main but not seeded or depended upon by other things.
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah.
<pkern> And generates component-mismatches.txt?
<Fujitsu> pkern: That'd be it.
<persia> Found it.  According to http://cvs.debian.org/dak/docs/README.names?rev=1.24&root=dak&view=auto, there are 9 Canonical tools
<pkern> s/Canonical/canonical/?
<persia> pkern: No.  "Canonical".
<Fujitsu> Ah, right.
<Fujitsu> Most of those are ooold.
<Fujitsu> poppy is the Soyuz FTP server, I know that one..
<persia> Fujitsu: Has Soyuz removed their identities as they are assimilated?
<StevenK> Soyuz doesn't make use of dak, though - I thought they just took the general idea and implemented it themselves?
<Fujitsu> persia: Pretty much.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That's right.
<Fujitsu> And introduced gina in the process (imports non-Syuz distros into Soyuz, like -security)
* persia thought it was a bridge process, where new Soyuz functions meant that various DAK tools were no longer used
<persia> Gina?  Someone should stuff that into CVS.
<Fujitsu> AFAIK, the only bits of dak being used at the moment are.. britney, for consistency checks, and the rest for -security.
<persia> But we still use at least anastacia, bridget, gina, and poppy, no?
<Fujitsu> What's bridget?
<Fujitsu> poppy will be renamed soon :(
<persia> Hrm.  bridget used to be mentioned on the wiki, but she's gone, so I presume she has become borg
* Fujitsu notes the addition of http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=gutsy&list=withinuniverse&arch=ANY
<persia> Fujitsu: Does that test against "restricted" as well?
<Fujitsu> persia: No, I didn't bother to check for that, as so little is there. It's trivial to add, if you want.
<persia> Fujitsu: I tend to chase RC bugs and oldlibs for QA stuff, but if it's trivial, it might be nice for debcheck people.
<Fujitsu> persia: Done and rerun.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Even better, no changes jump out for attention :)
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<persia> So do all of these need bumping to multiverse?
<persia> Also, http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=gutsy&package=request%2dtracker3%2e4 confuses me when compared with the withinuniverse check
<Fujitsu> They should be, yes. Most of them are related to cdrecord, it seems.
<Fujitsu> I think there's a bug with the safety check if the package name has a `.'
<persia> How do we do that?  Is it just lots of ~ubuntu-archive bugs?
<Fujitsu> Or one bug with multiple tasks.
* persia resolves to ask an archive admin after gutsy release
* persia wonders how to publicise the dB/dt where B represents the number of bugs and t represents time.  As long as dB/dt is decreasing, B itself is not as important.
<soren> persia: You don't mean "negative" rather than "decreasing"?
<persia> soren: We haven't yet reached negative over periods longer than a week or so (as far as I can tell), but we're getting really close to 0.
<soren> Really? I haven't been paying much attention to bug stats..
<persia> Further, I think we'll go negative soon, given the improvement in tools, and the increased number of contributors.
<persia> Best I can tell we reached ~20,000 last December, around ~30,000 in April, and are only around ~34,000 now.
<soren> We rock! :)
<Fujitsu> persia: UWN already publishes dB/dt.
<persia> Fujitsu: I just keep seeing so many people commenting about us having 30,000 bugs.  Personally I think that's a good thing (because of dB/dt), but it doesn't seem externally perceived as such.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> We had a big problem for a while, but it's certainly getting better.
<persia> I think it was just the lack of a strong recruiting model for edgy - we had user growth, but less contributor growth.
<geser> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi geser.
<geser> Hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> persia: I've fixed the issue with package names with a `.' in them.
* persia looks again
<Fujitsu> The Perl script mangles them to `_', which the frontend didn't take into account.
<persia> libapache-mod-fastcgi is in multiverse?
<Fujitsu> fastcgi is non-free.
<persia> Ahh...
<persia> That's annoying.  It can be used, copied, modified, distributed, and sublicensed, but only to implement FastCGI.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<persia> http://www.fastcgi.com/mod_fastcgi/docs/LICENSE.TERMS
<Fujitsu> How stupid.
<persia> It's so close to free that an ISC license would probably have offered stronger protection.
<nxvl> hi!
<Fujitsu> When did cdrecord and mkisofs head to multiverse? Weren't they the non-evil versions a while ago?
* persia thinks it has something to do with DVD integration, but isn't sure
<white> Fujitsu: stuff coming from cdrkit is good
<white> rest is evil
<Fujitsu> white: That's what I thought.
<Fujitsu> Bah.
<Fujitsu>  * no longer provide the dummy packages 'cdrecord', 'mkisofs' and
<Fujitsu>     'cdda2wav', since we now have cdrtools in multiverse
<Fujitsu> So we have all this lovely stuff that must be demoted.
<persia> Fujitsu: Alternately you could revert that change :)
<Fujitsu> I'm sure it was made for a reasonable reason in the first place.
<Fujitsu> siretart: ^^
<siretart> sorry?
<Fujitsu> siretart: You removed the cdrecord dummy package from cdrkit.
<Fujitsu> Why?
<siretart> Fujitsu: cdrecord and mkisofs need to be in multiverse until the licencing discussion with the TB have been sorted out
<siretart> Fujitsu: because we now ship both cdrkit (in main) and cdrtools (in multiverse).
<persia> siretart: Isn't cdrecord licensed in a way that anyone in Germany gets sued?
<Fujitsu> Is what's-his-name getting annoyed about us using his names?
<siretart> persia: no it isn't
<siretart> Fujitsu: no, he isn't
<siretart> Fujitsu: I've been packaging his software in very close cooperation (as in several hours phone calls)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Schilling
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I thought it was him, but wasn't quite sure.
* persia thanks siretart for his efforts
<siretart> :)
<Fujitsu> Why exactly are we preferring that the non-free version?
<Fujitsu> s/that //
<siretart> Fujitsu: that is a very good question that is currently discussed in private by the TB
<Fujitsu> In private? Urgh.
<siretart> feel free to write an inquiry
<Fujitsu> Particularly because we have just released Gutsy with it.
<siretart> what is the problem with that?
<Fujitsu> siretart: We have a fair few packages in universe depending on cdrecord.
<Fujitsu> Observe most of http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=gutsy&list=withinuniverse&arch=ANY
<siretart> Fujitsu: no. we have a fair packages depending on wodim with a possibly broken dependency field
<persia> So the packages concerned should be updated to depend on wodim?
<siretart> ideally, they would have an alternate dependency (wodim | cdrecord)
<siretart> or (genisoimage | mkisofs)
<siretart> or maybe even the other way round
<persia> Does wodim / genisoimage provide drop-in replacement so that we don't have to change anything else?
<siretart> persia: please look at the packages I've dropped from cdrkit
<siretart> persia: those packages just installed a SYMLINK to their cdrkit counterparts, and nothing else
<siretart> so those pacakges are actually tested with the wodim/genisoimage.
<persia> Ah.  Cool.  I'll look a little deeper prior to asking any more :)
<siretart> in fact, there have been only 2 packages in main FTBFS'ing because of those symlink dropped
<siretart> one of them was d-i ;)
<Fujitsu> siretart: Thanks for clarifying.
<persia> So for the affected packages, the procedure is to 1) add the alternate dependency, 2) patch to alternately use the alternate names if the calls are hardcoded, and 3) upload back into universe?
<Fujitsu> I think so.
<Fujitsu> Actually, shouldn't most things have been fixed in Debian?
<persia> That's a lot easier, and perhaps something of the right size for new contributors.
<siretart> Fujitsu: exactly
<Fujitsu> Do they have cdrtools in non-free?
<siretart> Fujitsu: no
<persia> Debian cdrkit still provides cdrecord / mkisofs
<Fujitsu> OK, so there's no real incentive for Debian maintainers to change their packages, other than (hopefully) bugs.
<persia> Right.  Some probably have, others may not have.  Still, it's not a huge list, and something we can do for hardy.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> Nice easy things for contributors.
<persia> Fujitsu: based on that, and on the expectation of similar possibilities for the others, I'm far more tempted towards the one-bug-per-package model than the many-tasks model, but I won't set it up for a couple weeks yet.
<Fujitsu> It would be nice to have task-specific comments at times, I think.
<persia> Fujitsu: Task-specific?  I was thinking more that if this was to be farmed to contributors, there would be value in not collating the materials, as there may be little commonality.
<Fujitsu> Ah, true.
<Fujitsu> Ignore me.
<persia> Fujitsu: Of course, if you just want to do it next week, feel free to do it all in one bug :)
<nxvl> persia: how do i download code from launchpad
<nxvl> persia: im trying to help on Displayconfig-gtk
<persia> nxvl: Um..  What task are you trying to accomplish towards which you would like to download cod.
<persia> nxvl.  OK.  First thing is that I'm not always here, and might be busy, so it's best to just ask the question generally.  There are lots of helpful people in the channel.
<Fujitsu> Mmm... cod.
<nxvl> persia: but i love you and i have seen you are here :D
<persia> Second thing is that you probably want to run `apt-get source displayconfig-gtk`.  If should either give you current source, or directions as to how to get current source.
<persia> nxvl: accolades appreciated, but just as a matter of general practice.  I don't like the idea that things can't happen because one person isn't around, and think it's better to do things in teams.
<nxvl> heh, i was just kidding :P ok, from now on i will not send messages with a persia: in the begining :D
<persia> nxvl: Thanks.  I'll still answer anyway :)
<nxvl> i know
<nxvl> :D
<nenolod> persia, but you have a fan
<nenolod> :P
<persia> nenolod: The weather is getting cooler in the northern hemisphere, so it's not as critical to maintain them :)
<nenolod> heheheh
<huats> morning all
<Fujitsu> Hi huats.
<huats> Fujitsu: hi
<nenolod> hm
<nenolod> does anyone here know if there is a 7.10RC1 install CD/DVD for PPC? the linux harddisk in my G5 is about to fail, so I think i'll just go ahead and reinstall now :s
<Fujitsu> nenolod: You could get the final candidate ISOs, which will likely be the actual release.
<nenolod> ah. they have been finalised?
<nenolod> great
<nenolod> i first upgraded to ubuntu from debian sarge using dist-upgrade ;)
<persia> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker doesn't list powerpc yet though
<Fujitsu> persia: It's unsupported, so probably won't be listed.
<Fujitsu> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/20071016/
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Not finalised as such, but if no issues are found they will likely be the same as those that are released in aroun 48 hours.
<nenolod> great. thanks :)
<nenolod> this will do just fine, thanks Fujitsu ;)
<nenolod> ooh. we support PA-RISC? fascinating.
<persia> nenolod: If it doesn't work in some interesting way, please report it :)
<nenolod> i was running gentoo on my HP PA-RISC kit. ;p
<nenolod> persia, of course i'll whine if the installer blows up
<nenolod> :P
<Fujitsu> nenolod: hppa was dropped in Edgy, but has been mostly restored for Gutsy.
<Fujitsu> Not everything has built yet, unfortunately :(
<persia> The install CD should work though, right?
<Fujitsu> I believe so.
<Fujitsu> I think main built.
<persia> The buildds prefer main to universe, don't they?
<nxvl> good night everyone!
<nenolod> persia, i think so
<nenolod> or at least, that's what i have noticed on rebuilds
<nenolod> but i don't pay much attention to stuff like that
<Fujitsu> persia: They do.
<persia> nenolod: You should be fine then, although you'll want to watch the repositories as they fill (and I'm not sure they will fill completely).
<Fujitsu> Particularly as publisher hopefully won't run again.
<nenolod> persia, well, i don't think i will try to install it on PA-RISC atm :P
<persia> Fujitsu: No?  It's been running regularly all day...
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, it's automatic again? I was disconnected for about an hour, so might have missed it.
<Fujitsu> I wonder if binaries can violate CURRENT like they do FROZEN.
<persia> Yep.  It's automatic again, but I'm fairly sure that no new sources are uploaded.
<persia> Interesting question.  We'll find out Thursday :)
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<slangasek> nenolod: so, er, you ran Debian on your powerpc and Gentoo on your hppa?  That's, er, odd :)
<Fujitsu> Hi slangasek.
<slangasek> hello, I'm not really here
<nenolod> slangasek, well, at the time I was more interested in Gentoo, but Gentoo has more internal bitching than Debian and Fedora combined
<nenolod> i suspect it has to do with the average age of contributors to gentoo though, most of them are children
<nenolod> :P
<slangasek> I hadn't noticed
* Fujitsu hides.
<nenolod> well, it's the userbase which is the turnoff in the gentoo experience
<nenolod> like when gentoo killed off XMMS, they decided to go lynch the audacious and bmp developers (and not the guy who removed xmms)
<slangasek> yes, the rampant power consumption of building everything locally isn't a turn-off at all ;)
<nenolod> slangasek, oh. just upgrade your systems in winter and turn off the heat :)
<Fujitsu> Gentoo on servers is great fun, particularly if you leave them for a few months and try to perform a security upgrade.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, yeah, one of my friends had to do overtime because of that
<nenolod> :D
<slangasek> nenolod: I find that using standard heating elements in the winter leads to a much lower failure rate on my hardware
<Fujitsu> I inherited quite a few, but they're progressively being replaced with more sane systems.
<nenolod> slangasek, me too... which is why i have been migrating back to debian/ubuntu :P
<nenolod> and honestly,
<nenolod> gentoo is great if you have no life
<nenolod> but i would rather have a life
<nenolod> or spend my lack of having a life doing more interesting things
<nenolod> (however you choose to see it ;))
<oly_mk2> hi, i wonder if someone could help me, i have created a package successfully but its 200mb
<oly_mk2> is there a file that i can use to tell the build system to ignore a folder ?
<oly_mk2> or do i have to delete it before building my package each time ?
<oly_mk2> thought someone here might know if it can be done,
<oly_mk2> i have looked on google but probably using wrong terminology
<norsetto> oly_mk2: its for personal use?
<oly_mk2> for now, but in future it will be more general
<jussi01> ANyone know alberto milones nick?
<oly_mk2> but for now i am learning package building, for my program
<norsetto> oly_mk2: is there a flag you can pass to configure to disable the inclusion of that poarticular feature? Otherwise you can remove it from your temporary build directory in your binary target
<oly_mk2> well the folder is .bzr, and its a python program no configure file
<nenolod> ah great. the new HDD shows up in OSX.
<norsetto> ok, for .bzr most probably there is a debuilder flag, like -I, let me check
<nenolod> that means i should have good chance for it showing up in ubuntu too. ;)
<norsetto> oly_mk2: yes, adding -I.bzr to debuild should do
<oly_mk2> okay i will have a look at that and try it out
<norsetto> jussi01: You can search for people here: https://launchpad.net/people/
<jussi01> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> jussi01: and find that his nick is tseliot
<jussi01> :)
<oly_mk2> is debuild an alternative to dpkg-deb ?
<oly_mk2> because thats what i have been using to build my package so far
<norsetto> oly_mk2: its a wrapper for dpkg-buildpackage
<norsetto> oly_mk2: so, the -I is just passed to dpkg-buildpackage, which in turn is passing it to dpkg-source
<norsetto> oly_mk2: I think its also worth telling you that dpkg-deb is just a tool to manipulate archives, you should certainly not use it to build packages (even if they are python)
<oly_mk2> oh, okay  did not know that, damn and i liked how simple it was :p
<oly_mk2> thxs for the info norsetto, though i am installing debuild now to have a play with
<norsetto> oly_mk2: yeah, its gonna be a bit trickier, you have to add a rules file to start with
<oly_mk2> yeah just found this, and a changelog file
<oly_mk2> i just needed a control script and a postinst script with the other system
<Schnitz> hi all
<norsetto> oly_mk2: you may find this helpful: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html; mind that its being migrated to the wiki
<oly_mk2> okay thxs again norsetto, will have a look at that
<norsetto> oly_mk2: python packages are actually tricky, for the time being since its just for you its most probably ok, but if you mean to distribute it you should certainly have a look at the Debian python policy
<oly_mk2> okay, probably be a while till it ready for distribution, been using a shell script for install up till now
<norsetto> oly_mk2: heck, you should code a python script for that ;-)
<oly_mk2> lol, i did consider it, but it helped with my bash knowldge so i cant complain
<oly_mk2> why are python programs tricky anyway
<oly_mk2> i would have thought they would be easy
<norsetto> oly_mk2: just in case, have a look at some python packages we have in the archive, and the script they use. Its usually called setup.py
* nenolod yawns
<oly_mk2> okay able to recommend a good one ?
<oly_mk2> thats quite simple, to get me started:)
<norsetto> oly_mk2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReferencePackages
<nenolod> Fujitsu, is it normal for the livecd to take 5 to 7 minutes to load?
<norsetto> oly_mk2: I think jokosher should be a good example to follow
<oly_mk2> okay excellent thxs for all this help,
<pwnguin> remind me again why i need a search indexer?
<norsetto> pwnguin: get rid of the blasted thing ;-)
<dholbach> norsetto: do you BCC ubuntu-motu{,-mentors}?
<dholbach> norsetto: that's why all the mails end up in the moderation queue
<norsetto> dholbach: why, it should be that originators that count?
<dholbach> Reason:  	Message has implicit destination
<norsetto> dholbach: but, ok, since it is like this I will take care to not repeat the mistake
<dholbach> no problem
* dholbach hugs norsetto
* norsetto hugs His Master :-)
<dholbach> hehe
<norsetto> dholbach: I hope you did a good job with jokosher, I'm giving that as an example of a good python package ;-)
<dholbach> oh, now I hope so too ;-)
<dholbach> there's ReferencePackages somewhere on the wiki
<norsetto> dholbach: scroll up few rows.....
<dholbach> hehe.... :)
<dholbach> doing too many things at the same time, I guess
<dholbach> excusez-moi
<dholbach> hey Tonio_ - how's it going?
<Tonio_> dholbach: hey ;)
<dholbach> Tonio_: how's big K looking?
<Tonio_> dholbach: well pretty fine, except I'm at work since 27 hours non-stop :)
* dholbach hugs Tonio_
<dholbach> hope you'll get some sleep soon again
<Tonio_> dholbach: I'd say nice, except we are one cycle late compared to ubuntu/gnome hehe :)
<Tonio_> as always :)
<dholbach> Tonio_: one cycle late?
<Tonio_> dholbach: we miss some features ubuntu has, like the new apt protocol
<Tonio_> dholbach: I started forking on it, but we'll have it once cycle late compared to ubuntu
<Tonio_> that's life, we're used to that :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: how are you ?
<dholbach> good good - a bit tired, but OK - just doing a few ISO tests
<Tonio_> hehe, I can imagin a release week is busy for canonical employees :)
<dholbach> I think I'm better off than others
<dholbach> imagine working on the kernel have "last minute bugs to fix" ;-)
<dholbach> ... and ...
* ajmitch hands dholbach some strong coffee
<Tonio_> dholbach: yeah, I guess benC isn't having a good time right now hehe :)
<Tonio_> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> I think it's all looking quite good
<norsetto> as long as he fix the bloated mac80211
<pwnguin> strange
<pwnguin> i brought a package into my ppa from debian
<pwnguin> and it wants to install  libode0debian1
<pwnguin> its not mentioned anywhere excplicitly that i can see
<norsetto> pwnguin: can be a depend of a depend
<pwnguin> thats the thing
<pwnguin> if that were the case, i'd also need to install that middle depend
<norsetto> pwnguin: are you using apt-get or dpkg?
<pwnguin> libode0debian1 mu-cade mu-cade-data
<pwnguin> apt-get
<pwnguin> mu-cade is the package i pulled from Debian
<pwnguin> ah. hmm
<norsetto> pwnguin: you can check it with: apt-cache rdepends libode0debian1
<pwnguin> Depends: mu-cade-data (= ${source:Version}), ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<ScottK> pkern: leonel
<norsetto> pwnguin: you can use a dpkg -I on the deb to check how the shlibs was expanded
<pwnguin> norsetto: isn't that the same as apt-cache show?
<pkern> ScottK: k thx
<norsetto> pwnguin: sure it is (if you update your cache)
<rexbron> siretart: Have a moment to talk about ffmpeg?
<pwnguin> well, mystery solved. this particular game did indeed use ode
<siretart> rexbron: sure
<pwnguin> if i had read anything from the actual upstream, i'd have realized that sooner =(
<norsetto> pwnguin: only the meek read, real men do it the hard way ;-)
<siretart> rexbron: what's up?
<rexbron> siretart: Would it be possible for hardy to get a new version from CVS
<pwnguin> norsetto: well the hard way kept saying it was needed. im not about to wait another hour to find out it doesnt work without that build dep :P
<siretart> rexbron: sure! however, since I co-maintain it in debian, I'd prefer to do the work over there, and then push the result to ubuntu
<rexbron> I initally started packaging an app called jahshaka, which in turn means I need to package OpenLibraries (and several other base libs). I believe that the OpenLibraries depends on some new funtionality introduced
<siretart> rexbron: since debian is far away from freezing, we work on that right now!
<rexbron> siretart: cool
<rexbron> :D
<siretart> rexbron: is this an offer for help?
<coNP[uni] > Hey MOTUs!
<rexbron> siretart: I know little regarding packaging from cvs
<rexbron> but I am willing to learn
<proppy> hi
<fernando> moin all
<proppy> norsetto_limbo: ping
<persia> proppy: limbo usually means just that :)
<proppy> let me google translate it
<proppy> oh
<Schnitz> hello
<Hobbsee> ScottK: nice mail to -d-d, btw.  i've just sent a similar one.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Which?  The getdeb one?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: nah.  4 days left
<siretart> rexbron: sorry, I was away
<ScottK> Ah.
<Hobbsee> although i found some interesting stuff about getdeb ,recently
<ScottK> Oh?
<siretart> rexbron: I'd suggest that you look at the svn on svn.debian.org, and look at how the packaging of ffmpeg works
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you be up for uploading a couple of source backports for me?
<siretart> rexbron: feel free to ask me specific questions either here, or in #debian-devel/oftc
<Hobbsee> ScottK: about their QA, and about what they're trying to do.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's Universe packages, but source backports take a core-dev no matter what.
<Hobbsee> yeah
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I've reviewed the debdiif in Bug #151308 and it should be good to go with no trouble.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151308 in feisty-backports "please backport Clamav from Gutsy to Feisty " [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151308
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Bug #153287 is the other.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153287 in dapper-backports "Please source backport pyspf 2.0.4-1 from Gutsy to Dapper" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/153287
* Hobbsee looks at this computing assignment.
* persia wonders if there are any guides that describe the line between critiquing faulty security implementations and providing a training guide for blackhats
* ScottK thinks persia might want to have a private conversation with keescook.
<jdong> persia: make sure the guy who you're talking to is not gonna try to use your knowledge for evil? :)
<persia> jdong: That fails sharply in an open collaboration environment
<jdong> it's the whole " 4oz of toothpaste doesn't kill people, terrorists kill people" argument....
* persia thinks of all the fun things to put in 4oz. of pasty minty tasting goo
<jdong> persia: critiquing faulty security successfully implies that someone can directly use that to exploit a weakness :)
<jdong> otherwise you didn't do a good job critiquing
<jdong> just don't go making hackomatix scripts and we'll be fine :)
<jdong> </hypocrite>
<persia> jdong: That's why I was hoping there were some common guidelines on how to demonstrate penetration without providing instruction (although I'll admit I received most of my knowledge of penetration from critiques)
<jdong> persia: I think uncoded instruction is good enough
<jdong> persia: it prevents the script kiddies from directly using it, which is really all that you can hope to avoid
<Whoopie> jdong: hi, could you have a look at bug 117900? thanks!
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117900 in vim "security update not installed because of higher version number of the backported vim" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117900
<persia> jdong: Makes sense.  Thanks (although I'll probably catch keescook at some future point as well).
<jdong> persia: yeah, he's gonna be your expert on this
<jdong> Whoopie: have you tried build-testing the version of vim you propose?
<Whoopie> jdong: sorry, no.
<Whoopie> jdong: problem is that I'm already on feisty. But I think, it's still valid for others. I'm thinking about closing it with "edgy is too old, upgrade to upcoming gutsy" or leave it open.
<jdong> Whoopie: nah, leave it open -- edgy is still a supported distro
<persia> Support is an interesting thing.  One of my coworkers installed Dapper last night, because he wanted more support than he thought he might get from Feisty.
<zul> support usually means security updates
<persia> zul: Only security?  I would think also standard SRU updates, etc.
<zul> persia: true but mostly security updates
<Treenaks> not "support" as in "more hardware support" or "better help on forums/mailinglists/irc/from canonical"
<Treenaks> well.. for longer, but not more :_)
<persia> For Dapper?  Years more, no?
<Treenaks> persia: sure, but try installing dapper on a brand-new machine with lots of new hardware
<persia> Treenaks: True enough.
* persia had nothing to do with the decision to choose Dapper
<zul> Treenaks: yeah but if you are going to backport the kernel to dapper is a lot of work
<Treenaks> persia: I've had a machine here where even the gutsy drivers don't detect the sound chipset properly, and the on-board ATi card doesn't do anything when not using the Vesa driver
<persia> Treenaks: Sounds like you didn't do your HW research before purchasing :)
<Treenaks> zul: sure, I know why it is :) I'm just trying to point out that the word "support" might be a bit confusing to people not used to the term being used in the way it's used wrt Ubuntu releases
<Treenaks> persia: I didn't buy it, my employer did :)
<amachu_> bluekuja: hi
<amachu_> just started to go through packaging again... and now little deeper to make
<amachu_> :-)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi (amsg)
<norsetto> hey proppy, wanna have fun with a nice python bug?
<jdong> lol, that's not how you lure em!
<jdong> "hey, wanna big tasty cookie?"
<norsetto> jdong: don't worry, he can't resist when he sees python
<proppy> norsetto: yep letme finish that phonecall
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi dholbach
<proppy> norsetto: back
<norsetto> bddebian: hi bd
<bddebian> Heya norsetto
<norsetto> proppy: ok, think you can have a look at this: bug 152438 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152438
<proppy> lets chroot !
<proppy> norsetto: reading the debianbugs troll
<proppy> norsetto: looks like its fixed upstream
<proppy> according to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=409864#88
<ubotu> Debian bug 409864 in viewvc "viewvc: No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/templates/directory.ezt' for SVN, but CVS works OK" [Important,Open] 
<norsetto> proppy: yes, do you think that last patch will fix it?
<proppy> let me try, the patch may have some others issue
<norsetto> brb
<norsetto> proppy: because it seems to me that that patch (not the authorization part, the path part) its already in the version we have
<proppy> norsetto: I don't see viewvc in feisty
<norsetto> proppy: was called viewvcs then
<norsetto> proppy: sorry, viewcvs
<proppy> norsetto:
<proppy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/951/
<proppy> ok
<norsetto> proppy: what that patch seems to be doing is just replacing this line in viewvc-install: contents = re.sub('^#![^\n] *', ReEscape(shbang), contents)
<norsetto> proppy:: with this: contents = re.sub('^#![^\n] *', _escape(shbang), contents)
<proppy> need to check ReEspace implementation against _escape
<proppy> so
<proppy> def ReEscape(str):
<proppy>   return string.replace(str, "\\", "\\\\")
<proppy> (04:22:38 PM) norsetto: proppy: because it seems to me that that patch (not the authorization part, the path part) its already in the version we have
<proppy> you mean in feisty ?
<norsetto> proppy: in gutsy
<proppy> cause I already got ReEscape in feisty
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> I thought the bug needed to be reproduce in feisty
<proppy> I confirm that the string ReEscape exist in feisty
<norsetto> proppy: I'm actually not sure that the debian bug IS the same as our bug. I was able to reproduce it, but wasn't able to reproduce the ubuntu one
<norsetto> proppy: yes, that is the case for gutsy too, the patch attached to the debian bug claims to solve the path issue by subst ReEscape with _escape
<proppy> "after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty"
<norsetto> proppy: it actually seems to me that the reporter of that was on a high dose of crack
<proppy> does this mean that the bug occured when upgrade from feisty to gutsy ?
<proppy> or that the bug occured when upgrade to feisty ?
<norsetto> proppy: no, I could reproduce the debian one on a fresh gutsy install
<norsetto> proppy: thats why I think the ubuntu bug is similar, perhaps due to the same cause, but its not the same
<proppy> ok let me clone a gutsy chroot
<proppy> I've attached the debian patch
<proppy> just in case
<norsetto> asac: re bug 107093, its as worst as ever. ff freezes after few secs only
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107093 in firefox "System freezes (possibly Gecko)" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107093
<proppy> norsetto: is diff vc-feisty/usr/src/viewcvs-0.9.2+cvs.1.0.dev.2004.07.28/viewcvs-install vc-gutsy/usr/src/viewvc-1.0.3/viewvc-install usefull ?
<norsetto> asac: don't know it makes sense to you, but was working fine until I tried granparadiso, which deleted my .mozilla dir, after which it started freezing again
<norsetto> proppy: don't think so
<proppy> :)
<proppy> norsetto: trying to reproduce the bug with apache + viewvc
<norsetto> proppy: yes, thats what I did, try to navigate to an svn repo and you should see the crash
<mertiki> slangasek : Are you there?
<asac> norsetto: granparadiso doesn't delete the .mozilla dir
<asac> norsetto: if you adopted granparadiso pretty early ... or from mozillateam archives you might have trashed your profile a bit though.
<norsetto> asac: well, that what it did when I tested few days ago, you remember it?
<asac> norsetto: please try with a fresh profile as i requested
<asac> norsetto: no ... i don't remember :)
<asac> sorry
<norsetto> asac: you asked me to test something, what was it?
<asac> norsetto: maybe Ubulette asked you?
<norsetto> asac: oh yeah, the install script, the typo (utf-8)
<asac> hmm ... so please move it again away and start firefox 2 only :)
<norsetto> asac: anyhow, it deleted the .mozilla dir, after which the freezing come back as worst as ever. I really think it is Cache related
<norsetto> asac: yes, thats what I did, and bang, freeze was back
<norsetto> ubulette :-) thats a fanny one. I should change my nick to ubuleur .....
<proppy> norsetto: http://paste.ubuntu.com/952/
<proppy> something is wrong with my svn configuration
<norsetto> proppy: in my case it was failing as it couldn't find foo/format
<proppy> dpkg-reconfigure viewvc and fixed my mistake
<proppy> norsetto:
<proppy> it works for me
<proppy> first I get this
<proppy> An Exception Has Occurred  The root "svn" is unknown. If you believe the value is correct, then please double-check your configuration.
<proppy> and then when using the name I give to my svn root
<proppy> using dpkg-reconfigure
<asac> norsetto: did you install anything from mozillateam repository?
<proppy> which is uppercase SVN
<proppy> it works
<asac> norsetto: which version of libnspr4-0d and libnss3-0d do you have installed?
<norsetto> asac: no, but I tested your nlswrapper thingie
<proppy> norsetto: let me upload this somewhere so you can check yourself
<asac> nspluginwrapper?
<norsetto> asac: yes
<norsetto> asac: libnspr4-0d    4.6.6-3
<norsetto> asac: libnss3-0d     3.11.5-3
<asac> norsetto: please see which versions you have installed of all these packages ... and try to remove flashplugin-nonfree mozilla-plugin-gnash as well as nspluginwrapper to see if things go away
<asac> norsetto: and check is there anything left after doing this in /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/
<norsetto> asac:nspluginwrapper and flashplugin-nonfree were installed on another partition
<norsetto> asac: they have nothing to do with the firefox problem; its a plain firefox, noextension/plugin/nothing
<asac> norsetto: installed on another partition? what happened with that partition?
<norsetto> asac: since I can't use firefox, I installed kubuntu on another partition, and I'm using that
<asac> norsetto: anyway ... attach a strace -e open -f firefox &> /tmp/strace.log to the bug
<asac> and let me know
<norsetto> asac: ok, for that I have to log off
<Hobbsee> dear people, please dont send me memos, kthxbye.
<norsetto> proppy: sorry, have to log off, see u later
<proppy> see you
<Adri2000> TheMuso: looks like ubuntu4 of audacious-plugins doesn't fix the upgrade :/ (bug #152918) is it the same for ubuntustudio-look?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152918 in audacious-plugins "Try to replace libcurl.so from audacious-plugins-extra" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152918
<jussi01> Adri2000: TheMuso will be asleep right now
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: why the hell not?
<Hobbsee> oh, wait, you didnt actually do the second fix.
<Hobbsee> so i wont blast you for not testing twice, especially so close to a freeze
<Adri2000> what is the "second fix"? and I didn't upload anything, as finally TheMuso's upload has been accepted
<Hobbsee> but his doesnt work either
<Adri2000> exactly. and I'm afraid there is the same problem with ubuntustudio-look
* Hobbsee is grabbing the source and having a look
<Hobbsee> but i'm surprised that both of you didnt actually check.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: consider this your smacking with the cluebat.  you officially SUCK.
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: please fix this properly, and run it past me first.
* Hobbsee will give TheMuso more of an earful later - like, when he's actually awake.
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: ubuntustudio-look was the other?  looking
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: yes, and I'm fixing (hopefully for real now) audacious-plugins atm. I could do ubuntustudio-look as well, but I've never touched any ubuntustudio package, so maybe we'll wait TheMuso or someone else?
<hash_> Hi, I want to get an existing Debian package into Ubuntu's Universe repository, so I did: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/129952 . I'm wondering when the binaries will be available in the Ubuntu Universe repository?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129952 in ubuntu "please sync package m17n-contrib from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released] 
<hash_> Is there anything more I need to do?
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/audacious-plugins_1.3.5-3ubuntu4.1.debdiff
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: now i've managed to confuse myself greatly, but at least this shouldnt bite us during upgrade paths and such - only for those doing daily upgrades of gutsy
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: i *think* that's still broken.
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: for those who do daily updates for gutsy.
<norsetto> asac: strace attached to bug 107093
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107093 in firefox "System freezes (possibly Gecko)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107093
<Adri2000> hash_: it failed to build : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/m17n-contrib/1.1.3-1/+build/381360
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: yes for feisty -> gutsy there should be any problem
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: why do you think it's still broken?
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: would be nice to fix it properly though, for those who do update
<Adri2000> of course
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: because it breaks for those already having upgraded to ubuntu4
<Hobbsee> (which is, uh, everyone, based on the release cycle?)
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: if they have ubuntu4, it wont replace any previous version, and will still get hit over and over by this bug - you've effectively done what TheMuso did.
<Hobbsee> you need to C&R ubuntu4
<Adri2000> ahh right, so that should rather be << 1.3.5-3ubuntu4.1
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> so either <= ubuntu4 or << ubuntu4.1
<Adri2000> yep
<Hobbsee> because in current state, it'll break for everyone who upgrades, when they get the update thru -updates sometime in the future.
<Adri2000> and... I'm not sure if Replaces is needed, the Debian maintainer only put conflicts
<Hobbsee> apt seems to handle it better if replaces si added
<Adri2000> ok
<Hobbsee> as in, it doesnt leave the question of "so, which one do you actually want?"
<hash_> Adri2000: the logs says: "Built successfully" and the web page says: "Status:  	 Failed to upload"
<Hobbsee> hash_: erk.  that's a soyuz bug.
<Adri2000> hash_: you're right, I misread
<hash_> Adri2000: no probs. :-)
<hash_> Hobbsee & Addr2000: So what do I need to do to get the binary built and in the repo for gutsy?
<Hobbsee> asking.
<Hobbsee> it may be far too late
<proppy> norsetto: hi back
<norsetto> proppy: bad news are always back ....
<proppy> norsetto: I've got an url for you
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/
<Hobbsee> hash_: [01:58]  <cjwatson_> Hobbsee: I think it's unlikely that those will be processed now
<proppy> you can log via ssh
<proppy> wait
<Hobbsee> hash_: needed this 2+ days ago.
<Hobbsee> er, 1+ day ago
<hash_> Hobbsee: even for the Universe repository?
<Hobbsee> hash_: yes.  we want -security for when gutsy opens.
<Hobbsee> hash_: this thing died 2 months ago.  this thing failed a month and a half ago - and it's taken you this long to notice, and to act on the FTBFS emails?
<Hobbsee> gah.  kill first sentence.
<hash_> Hobbsee: What FTBFS emails?
<asac> norsetto: try to purge font packages and see if you find a bad one
<Hobbsee> are you listed as the maintainer there?
<hash_> Hobbsee: not for Ubuntu, only for Debian.
<Hobbsee> hm, seems so
<norsetto> asac: what do you mean purge?
<asac> apt-get remove --purge PACKAGENAME
<norsetto> asac: any particular suspicion before I wipe out all my fonts?
<hash_> Hobbsee: In Sept, in launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/129952) I asked about what happened to the binaries, but got no response.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129952 in ubuntu "please sync package m17n-contrib from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released] 
<hash_> Hobbsee: Should I have received emails when the upload failed?
<Hobbsee> oh, and bddebian never responded.
<Hobbsee> hash_: usually, yeah.  although i'm not sure what happens if you're only hte maintainer, not the uploader
<bddebian> About?
<proppy> norsetto: I was unable to reproduce it in gutsy
<proppy> norsetto: as show the url below
<hash_> Hobbsee: ah, so the uploader would have got an email?
<norsetto> proppy: what if it is a real svn repo? Because I tired with one, and was getting an error too
<asac> norsetto: no ... try deja.. fonts
<bddebian> Hobbsee: What didn't I respond about?
<norsetto> asac: ok, back to the other partition ......
<asac> norsetto: yes try to remove the ttf-dejavu* packages you have
<Hobbsee> bddebian: failed to upload - would have thought you'd responded to the bug report
<Hobbsee> hash_: he would have, yeah.
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Sorry I'm barely paying attention as I'm at work.  What bug?
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/129952
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129952 in ubuntu "please sync package m17n-contrib from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released] 
<hash_> Hobbsee: This is disappointing, I did all the requirements in august just to get this into Gutsy and then inquired what went wrong in Sept, and now I find out it's too late.
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/audacious-plugins_1.3.5-3ubuntu4.1.debdiff < I built that one, and dpkg -i the binaries works (whereas it didn't work previously with the wrong version in conflicts/replaces), so I guess it's good now. can I upload?
<Hobbsee> i know, but we release in 2 days, and there's a time where it's absolutely frozen.  you picked tha ttime.
<bddebian> Crap, I must have missed that one, sorry :-(
<hash_> so does this mean, it'll have to wait till the next version of Ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> -Replaces: audacious-plugins-extra (<= 1.3.5-3ubuntu2)
<Hobbsee> +Conflicts: audacious (<< 1.2)
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: why was ^ (the second half) OK to drop?
* Hobbsee is jus tworking off the debdiff here
<proppy> norsetto: the svn repo it shows was created with svnadmin
<proppy> norsetto: you can check command history and file change on http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/
<norsetto> proppy: any chance you can mirror another repo?
<proppy> norsetto: I've put you ssh keys in root/.ssh/authorized_keys
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/#SshAccess
<proppy> norsetto: If you want to try with the failing svn repo
<proppy> failing
<proppy> I can do it myself
<proppy> just give me the url for the one you tried
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: because if a conflicts b, b doesn't need to conflict a, no? and I look in Debian and the maintainer didn't put any additional conflicts/replaces to audacious-plugins-extra
<proppy> oops I missed my japanese class :(
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: a file was moved from -plugins-extra to -plugins, so now -plugins conflicts with and replaces the old -plugins-extra
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: ah right.
<Hobbsee> yep
<luk_> pong to whoever highlighted me :-)
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: is -proposed already open?
<proppy> norsetto: which repository do you want me to try
<proppy> norsetto: any repo ?
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: i doubt it
<norsetto> proppy: try this: svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-ralink/
<norsetto> asac: I deleted the dejavu fonts, seems faster (and so far no freeze, which is a recent record)
<proppy> norsetto: does viewvc support listing remote repository ?
<proppy> norsetto: or should I import it in a locally created repository ?
<leonel> do-release-upgrade  works  for  PPC   upgrading from feisty to gutsy ?
<proppy> norsetto: cause there is no svn clone :)
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: but still, I upload now? and it'll be accepted when -proposed opens?
<norsetto> proppy: I imported a local repo
<asac> norsetto: ok ... have fun :)
<norsetto> proppy: and tried to access it with viewvc, but get an error (something like foo/format not found). No matter what root I specify
<norsetto> asac: was that it? Bloody dejavu-fonts ? Come on ......
<asac> yeah
<proppy> norsetto: which command did you use to import svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-ralink/ in a local repo ?
<proppy> norsetto: svn co svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-ralink/ then svn import . /svnroot ?
<norsetto> asac: any likely explanation why mandatory fonts (in ubuntu-dekstop) are causing this????
<asac> is it mandatory?
<norsetto> asac: yes
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: i think that's fine.  i think.
<asac> i couldn't track this down ... no ... apparently it doesn't happen for all, so most likely has something to do with your X/driver setup
<norsetto> asac: dejavu-core is a depends of all -desktop metapackages
<asac> norsetto: did you have -extra as well?
<asac> maybe it just happens with extra?
<norsetto> asac: yes
<norsetto> asac: exyta is a depends of ttf-dejavu, which depends on | openoffice org and | gnome-core
<proppy> norsetto: on #svn http://paste.ubuntu.com/958/
<proppy> norsetto: did you use svnsync ?
<norsetto> asac: ok, let me reinstall the core ones only
<norsetto> proppy: no, it wasn't svnsync
<proppy> So you only imported some file into your local repository
<proppy> not the all the revision
<proppy> ?
<proppy> s/some file/the trunk/
<proppy> If you try to make viewvc a checkouted directory it won't work
<proppy> I understand viewvc is looking for a svn repo, not a svn working copy
<norsetto> proppy: no, I didn't import just some files, I imported the whole repo
<norsetto> asac: so far so good, thanks a bunch!! Just keep the bug open, I want to do some more testing before I can confirm this as solved. THANKS!
<proppy> can you give me the command you used ?
<asac> norsetto: please add a ttf-dejavu-extra target in that bug if it turns out to be that package
<norsetto> asac: you bet I will
<asac> thanks
<norsetto> proppy: let me see if I have it in my history
<proppy> norsetto: Is this the error you had: http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/?root=pkg-ralink
<proppy> ?
<proppy>  SubversionException: ("Can't open file '/tmp/pkg-ralink/format': No such file or directory", 2)
<norsetto> proppy: thats the one
<proppy> norsetto: it's not a bug
<norsetto> proppy: can't find it in history, too long ago
<proppy> norsetto: viewvc wait for a svn repository
<norsetto> proppy: isn't format in .svn?
<proppy> norsetto: not a checkouted working copy
<proppy> norsetto: nop, svn is a centrealised versionning system
<proppy> norsetto: the repository structure is totally different from the working copy one
<proppy> when you checkout, you do not have all the history of the file, like with mercurial or bazaar for example
<norsetto> proppy: so, the only way to clone a repo locally is to use this svnsync?
<proppy> yep
<proppy> which diff all the revision two per two
<proppy> and import the changeset one by one
<norsetto> proppy: cvs, svn, hg, bzr, git, anything else? Can somenone invent a new one pls?
<proppy> norsetto: but you can clone it with cp or rsync, if you have ssh access to the source repository :)
<proppy> norsetto: monotone ?
<norsetto> proppy: as ScottK said once, I can only have so many vcs in my head, and my limit is slightly below one ......
<norsetto> proppy: I still have to decide which one :-)
<ScottK> Bitkeeper is still around (and still proprietary).
<proppy> go mercurial !
<norsetto> proppy: anyhow, back to the bug, it seems that the debian one is then not related to the ubuntu one
<proppy> norsetto: see the fantastic web interface http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/ :)
<proppy> norsetto: I think they are related, but that it's already fixed in gutsy
<norsetto> proppy: if I really have to use one, then I'm afraid its gonna be bzr ......
<proppy> norsetto: maybe we should get feisty a try ?
* norsetto hopes bddebian is not around
<proppy> bddebian: hg fan ?
<norsetto> proppy: no, he just tends to vomit on my shoes if someone names bzr
<proppy> norsetto: what do you suggest to do next ?
<proppy> 1/ reproduce it in debian ?
<proppy> 2/ reproduce it in feisty ?
<proppy> we need to reproduce it somewhere somehow
<proppy> I guess
<norsetto> proppy: I can only see one way to test it, install viewcvs in fiesty and after upgrade to gutsy upgrade it to viewvc
<proppy> debootstrap feisty
<proppy> install viewvc
<proppy> check if it works ?
<proppy> apt-get dist-upgrade
<proppy> check if it still (don't) works ?
<proppy> right ?
<norsetto> proppy: no, you really need to install viewcvs and then upgrade to viewvc if you want to test the migration script. Perhaps, its possible to test it stand alone; you can find the script in the /debian of viewvc
<proppy> ohhh ok
<proppy> I just get it
<proppy> I didn't catch it was related to the name change
<norsetto> proppy: I need to test something, I might freeze my machine, so if I don't answer you know why ......
<proppy> :)
<proppy> ok
<proppy> norsetto: so debootstrap feisty install viewcvs check if it works, apt-get dist-upgrade, apt-get install viewvc, check if it still don't work.
<proppy> oups too late
<proppy> 07:06:30 PM) proppy: norsetto: debootstrap feisty, install viewcvs, check if it works, apt-get dist-upgrade, apt-get install viewvc, check if it still (doesn't) work.
<norsetto> proppy: I don't have the bug report handy, was it a cvs or svn problem? Or independent?
<proppy> norsetto: seems that debian people says its svn only
<proppy> norsetto: I will test it with both
<proppy> norsetto: initialising a repository is just one command away for each
<norsetto> asac: oh well, it was a good try, no matter if ttf-dejavu (-core, extra or plain) are installed or not, still freezing
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
(hellboy195/#ubuntu-motu) hi, I'm new in packaging and I try to package a new gtk frontend for MDP (Music Player Daemon). I have mpd under the depencies but if I try to install the package (not fully debian valid - testing use for me) the software index get's b0rken. but if I perform a "sudo apt-get -f install" apt installs mpd and everything works fine than. what is wrong? http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/16252/   : buh quite long message ^^ . thx in advance
<geser> hellboy195: only apt installs dependencies, dpkg prints only an error and aborts the package installation
<hellboy195> geser: that means there is nothing I can do an all is correct?
<Amaranth> hellboy195: if you use gdebi to install it it would pull in mpd too
<nxvl> here, in Peru LoCo Team we are preparing an installfest for the Gutsy release and i've been ask to give a talk about MOTU, so i wonder if someone has talk about that so i can use his presentation as base for mine
<hellboy195> ok nice to hear :D. Ahm 1 stupid question again :( . i have launchpad beta account so i can build my packages there. what ".changes" do i have to upload? what dpkg-buildpage made or pbuilder ?
<geser> hellboy195: yourpackage_source.changes
<hellboy195> geser: thx :D . Ah ^^ and what does Build-Depends-Indep mean? i havn't found that in any documentation but i saw it in severel control files
<ScottK> YokoZa1: How are you today.
<geser> hellboy195: that are build-depends for architecture independent files (like documentation) e.g if you build a -doc package
<ScottK> YokoZa1: Any thoughts about a feisty-backport for Wine 0.9.46?
<hellboy195> geser: ah. cool. thx :D
<geser> hellboy195: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-sourcebinarydeps
<hellboy195> geser: ah i can remember i read that but since i'm new to packaging i don't/didn't understand that
<bddebian> Heya geser, ScottK
<geser> Hi bddebian
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ScottK> Hello sistpoty.
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ScottK and geser
<sistpoty> sheesh, /me needs to do s.th. about bandwith... note to self phone provider tomorrow *g*
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> bddebian: thanks again for your work on trigger!
<bddebian> Heh, I didn't get very far :-(
<sistpoty> it builds again, doesn't it?
<bddebian> Yes, but the -data package is still behind :(
<hellboy195> Ah I think packaging is difficult at the beginning but it makes a lot of fun. A mentor or something like this is very welcomed ;O
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<hellboy195> bluekuja: there is a nice interview of you on the plant ;)
<bluekuja> hellboy195: yeah! just seen it!
<bluekuja> hellboy195: is it nice? :)
<hellboy195> bluekuja:  sure. 18 years and already so famous
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> hellboy195: thanks :) I've appreciated
<hellboy195> bluekuja: well I'm 17 and new to packaging so I think every MOTU is a kind of "hero" for me so I'm not sure if my words have any value ^^
<sistpoty> bluekuja: damn, another pic of a really clean work area... makes me feel more embarassed about my work area *g*
* bluekuja cleaned his work area a bit before taking a photo :P
<sistpoty> cheater :P
<bluekuja> hehehe
* sistpoty drank a beer before taking the photo :P
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> hellboy195: you're really young, feel free to ping for every question :)
* bluekuja is looking at sistpoty's work area atm
<bluekuja> sistpoty: nice :)
<imbrandon> pics?
<hellboy195> bluekuja: thx for this possibility :)  btw you are interested in p2p things in future? don't forget the incredible frostwire ;)
<bluekuja> imbrandon: http://behindmotu.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/100_1461.jpg
<sistpoty> bluekuja: well. *cough*, thanks
<sistpoty> imbrandon: behind mout
<sistpoty> motu even
<rick_h> That is the desktop of a MOTU.
<rick_h> and here I was keeping a ~/packaging dir
<bluekuja> hellboy195: yeah definitely. I'll move to create a team soon. But as I said would be nice to have more ppl in!
<bluekuja> rick_h: my desktop is pretty confusing
<bluekuja> sistpoty: did you cover your desktop with the terminal for any particular reason?
<rick_h> more power to you
<bluekuja> rick_h: :)
<hellboy195> bluekuja: :) . btw may I ask you in which town you life (i expect in italy) - maybe I not as far away as you think
<sistpoty> bluekuja: no, that's what my regular desktop looks like... one fullscreen konsole (with several tabs open), and most probably kmail and maybe firefox open...
<bluekuja> hellboy195: Udine, quite near from Venice
<hellboy195> bluekuja: great XD
<bluekuja> sistpoty: that's cool then!
<bluekuja> hellboy195: what about you?
<hellboy195> bluekuja: you every heard about "hermagor" ?
<sistpoty> (I guess I'm the one application per desktop person, which will then run always fullscreen *g*)
<bluekuja> lol yeah
<bluekuja> hellboy195: 100 km from here?
<hellboy195> bluefoxicy: uhh more. from hermagor to Villach (i think you know this town) are 55km
<bluekuja> well, we are *quite* near then
<bluekuja> hellboy195: if you get the chance to come here, ping me
* ajmitch never gets anyone visiting :)
<bluekuja> hehe
<hellboy195> bluekuja: well. we'll see. "non me viene in mente quanti kilometri sono da udine a villach"  <-- to make my teacher proud xD
<blueyed> ScottK: really bad that bug 135695 is not fixed, although the debdiff was available for a long time. Would I now just do s/gutsy/hardy/ in the debdiff? (the package isn't in Debian anymore).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135695 in php-interbase "FTBFS: depends on php4-dev, which has been removed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135695
<ScottK> blueyed: Agreed.  I just didn't have time to sort through it when it didn't apply.
<bluekuja> hellboy195: lol
<blueyed> It applied all the time..
<ScottK> blueyed: You want two: gutsy/hardy and gusty/gutsy-proposed.
<bluekuja> hellboy195: I guess 90-100
<zul> ajmitch: thats because you are sounded by sheep and they are probably allergic to wool
<hellboy195> bluekuja: yeah. quite near.  hmm I'll ping you if I need help with my next Italien homework ^^ :P
<slangasek> genetically-modified cotton sheep
<bluekuja> slangasek: lol
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> hellboy195: great!
<ScottK> slangasek: Normally we don't push SRUs until after they are uploaded to the follow-on development release.  Any opinions about if it'd be OK to push stuff like fixing package FTBFS to gutsy-proposed now?
<slangasek> ScottK: it's my understanding that gutsy-proposed is open, and some packagesare already being uploaded
<ScottK> OK.  I think we need to produce some rules for that for Universe then.  Thanks.
<hellboy195> bluekuja: but I don't expect you are learning german?
<bluekuja> hellboy195: english only
<bluekuja> :)
<ScottK> zul, StevenK, and soren: Any objections to allowing uploads to gutsy-proposed now with a single motu-uvf ack?
<hellboy195> bluekuja: That's a pitty
<soren> ScottK: TBH, I don't know the current policy for that? Is that the same as it would be for feisty-proposed?
<zul> me either
<ScottK> Normally we don't upload an SRU until it's fixed in the development release.
<sistpoty> ScottK: is hardy open already? it'd be nice if you could keep a list of stuff that needs to go to hardy after it's open otherwise
<ScottK> And any MOTU can do it.
<ScottK> sistpoty: No.
<sistpoty> ScottK: can you milestone for hardy in LP?
<ScottK> Since we have no development series to do first, I'm thinking motu-uvf ack instead.
<ScottK> sistpoty: Not yet.
<sistpoty> or otherwise abuse it to get to that list (e.g. by tags)?
<ScottK> We can just grab a list of what's in gutsy-updates when hardy opens and have our list.
<sistpoty> sounds like a good idea then :)
<ScottK> Stuff like blueyed's bug above it'd be a shame to leave it open longer than needed.
<sistpoty> sure, I'm merely worried to not get regressions into hardy... not by which policy this is done ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: btw: I'm interested in your work area now :P
<ScottK> zul, soren, StevenK?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: sorry, it's classified
<sistpoty> ajmitch: hehe
<zul> ScottK: i would wait but convince me otherwise
<hellboy195> bluekuja: well. I'm off now. Thx for the talk and I ping you if I need help ;)
<ScottK> zul: Why wait if it's just stuff with no downside risk.
<soren> ScottK: Are you sure it's even possible?
<ScottK> soren: slangasek says it is.
<bluekuja> hellboy195: take care and feel free to ping anytime
<sistpoty> cya hellboy195
<ScottK> There are Main uploads going there now.
<hellboy195> :D cya
<zul> ScottK: fine with me then
<ScottK> Particularly FTBFS bugs.
<soren> ScottK: Hm... I guess it can't hurt, then.
<sistpoty> zul: imo we shouldn't wait if it's possible already...
<ScottK> OK.  I'll write a mail to the MOTU list then.
<zul> sistpoty: 15:40 < zul> ScottK: fine with me then
<sistpoty> of course there's the factor "devs should be able to take a break", but none other that I could see
<ScottK> sistpoty: They can take all the break they want.  Hobbsee's not here to make them.
<sistpoty> haha
<zul> sistpoty: ive already taken a break
<sistpoty> zul: so do I, almost for the entire gutsy cycle :P
<zul> sistpoty: i wish ;)
<sistpoty> hm... it's just a bad job to mainly work on a FOSS project, ("oh, I'll just checkout if it still builts on gutsy... just this commit and then...")
<sistpoty> (as in work on a paid basis)
<zul> i would love to be paid to work on a foss project but thats just me anyways
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ScottK] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Universe Freeze in effect, don't even ask - start working on Gutsy SRUs (gutsy-proposed is open for motu-uvf approved uploads). | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
<proppy> norsetto: I've reproduced the bug
<proppy> norsetto:  info on http://lp152438.aminche.com/
<sistpoty> zul: the advantages of working for university :)
<proppy> oups close wrong window
<proppy> norsetto_: ping
<sistpoty> and bad isn't the right word, as I'm pretty content, but I'm never done after I go home with the job
<norsetto_> proppy: pong
<zul> sistpoty: true
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you're luckier than most
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I definitely guess so... even though it doesn't pay to much :)
<sistpoty> s/to/too/
<ajmitch> neither does my job
<Adri2000> ScottK: I've uploaded audacious-plugins to gutsy-proposed today at 16:30UTC (if you're not aware: TheMuso's fix doesn't work), so could you give it an ack so that it can be accepted quickly? Hobbsee reviewed my upload and said ok to upload, but I'd need a clear ack. it's bug #152918.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152918 in audacious-plugins "Try to replace libcurl.so from audacious-plugins-extra" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152918
<ScottK> Adri2000: Sure.  Is this one going to work?
<proppy> norsetto_: http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/
<proppy> norsetto_: same error
<proppy> I've updated #152438 with the steps to reproduce it
<proppy> with a link to the step :)
<proppy> what is the next step ?
<proppy> bug #152438
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152438
<ScottK> Adri2000: Acked
<ScottK> blueyed: I acked your php bug for upload to gutsy-proposed.
<Adri2000> ScottK: that's *the* question :). I used the same conflicts/replaces as in debian, and my tests were successful. thanks
<Adri2000> ScottK: should I subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<proppy> norsetto_: diff -Nru lp152438.2/usr/lib/viewvc/ lp152438/usr/lib/vievc is empty
<proppy> norsetto_: in lp152438.2 I got the package installed on gutsy
<proppy> norsetto_: in lp152438 i get the package upgrade from feisty to gutsy
<ScottK> Adri2000: Yes.
<blueyed> ScottK: thanks.
* blueyed hopes it now gets finally uploaded/sponsored.
<proppy> norsetto_: http://lp152438.aminche.com/viewvc.diff.txt
<proppy> here is the diff between gutsy and feisty->gutsy configuration file
<proppy>  -template_dir = /etc/viewvc/templates is removed
<blueyed> Is this channel logged somewhere?
<ScottK> !logs | blueyed
<ubotu> blueyed: Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<blueyed> Schnitz: I've talked with one of the tvbrowser devs today. He said that it works with icedtea-java, too - not only sun-java.
<blueyed> Schnitz: there are already .debs available also: http://wiki.tvbrowser.org/index.php/Weitere_Pakete_-_(K)ubuntu - HTH
<Schnitz> blueyed: thanks for your help i'll take a look at it tomorrow
<Schnitz> blueyed: the wiki always says that it'll only work with java, the debs available there also depend on the sun java
<proppy> norsetto_: overwriting the configuration file with the gutsy installed version
<proppy> norsetto_: does fix the error
<proppy> norsetto_:  the bug is related to viewcvs to viewvc configuration migration
<proppy> norsetto: I updated bug #152438
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152438
<allee> siretart: hast du zufaellig eine nfsroot mit 2.6.22-14 kernel probiert?  Dell Optiplex 620 and 740 booten mit -14 nicht mehr.  3-wochen alte nfsroot mit -12 geht :(   Und -12 und -14 moegen den nagelneuen Optiplex 755 nicht.
<allee> ich brauch 'ne muetze schlaf.  Ich schau morge mal  wo's genau klemmt
<proppy> norsetto: I'll get back to you tomorrow with this one, next step is to figure out what is missing in viewvc configuration file migration script
<allee> oops, that's not #fai.  Sorry
<norsetto> proppy: can you check just by adding only this: template_dir = /etc/viewvc/template ?
<siretart> allee: sorry, bin ich nicht dazu gekommen, bei mir geht ehrlichgesagt ziemlich drunter und drueber
<siretart> allee: oh, a bit german doesn't hurt here ;)
<proppy> norsetto: already checket
<norsetto> proppy: and? Its not enough?
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/
<proppy> norsetto:  adding template_dir option by applying the following patch didn't help
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/7626c04ded48
<proppy>  overwriting viewvc.conf with the gutsy installed one does fix the error changeset: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/aee52cf25866 http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/ display the correct content
<allee> siretart: heh :) Same here.  Otherwise I would have noticed the regression.
<norsetto> proppy: strange, everything else doesn't seem relevant
<proppy> norsetto: if you log on the machine
<proppy> norsetto: you can rewing the configuration file to their previous revision
<proppy> norsetto: and check by yourself if you want
<proppy> norsetto: hg revert -r 30 viewvc.conf
<proppy> the whole filesystem is versionned
<norsetto> proppy: so, if you just substitute the new conf file, everything is ok, but if you migrate the old one -> bug?
<proppy> yep
<norsetto> proppy: ok, so it confirms that it has nothing to do with the debian bug
<proppy> yes and no
<norsetto> proppy: how would you check what is it that makes the difference?
<proppy> the debian one is fixed upstream
<proppy> the ubuntu one is related to the same fix, which don't show up in the upgrade process
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<proppy> don't you think ?
<norsetto> proppy: I'm not following you
<proppy> norsetto: some lines are missing in the upgraded configuration file
<proppy> norsetto: I bet those lines fix the debian bug
<norsetto> proppy: and some are changed
<proppy> norsetto: do you follow me ?
<norsetto> proppy: no, I really don't see what is relevant in the debian bug
<proppy> norsetto: the debian bug is not helping us, but our future fix may help the debian bug
<norsetto> proppy: I don't know, in any case we are fixing it for debian, as we can't upload whatever patch we come with now
<proppy> freeze freeze ?
<proppy> freeze is frozen ? :)
<norsetto> proppy: as freeze as it could be
<proppy> (10:56:23 PM) norsetto: proppy: how would you check what is it that makes the difference?
<norsetto> proppy: I really don't see what else it could be: this: default_root = ? Doesn't seem relevant
<ScottK> proppy and norsetto: see /topic for info on early uploads to gutsy-updates (MOTU ML for details).
<norsetto> scottK; yeah, just saw your email to the list
<proppy> norsetto: template_dir is added
<proppy> and all the template line are commented
<proppy> check at the end of the diff
<proppy> http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/aee52cf25866
<proppy> letme paste this somewhere
<norsetto> proppy: yes, these are the only relevant changes
<proppy> norsetto: http://paste.ubuntu.com/967/
<proppy> norsetto: I do try add the template dir option
<proppy> norsetto: but i forgot to comment other template options
<proppy> let me try it
<norsetto> proppy: ok, can you try it with this now? lets see if we are lucky
<proppy> norsetto: it was definilty a good idead to version this chroot :)
<proppy> norsetto: file reverted bug is back http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/
<proppy> norsetto: let me patch it
<norsetto> proppy: I knew I did see it before, the template_dir one is patch 102_viewvc.conf_Debian_customization
<norsetto> proppy: assuming that just commenting the [templates]  section works, I'm not so sure we could easily patch it (of course not if it was edited)
<norsetto> proppy: but at least it would be a good work-around solution to add it in the bug report
<proppy> norsetto: doesn't help
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/ bug still here
<proppy> norsetto: with following patch http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/1992b51f1bdf
<norsetto> proppy: zut ....
<proppy> zut de zut
<norsetto> proppy: that was done inline I guess?
<proppy> inline ?
<proppy> you mean I edited it by hand ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, you just edited the conf file
<proppy> yep
<norsetto> proppy: but I think you should not comment out [templates]  ..... try
<proppy> norsetto: I don't know how to cut a diff into part
<proppy> norsetto: I already try it :)
<norsetto> proppy: its ok
<proppy> i just forgot to commit between the two
* persia points at filterdiff and editdiff in the patchutils package
<proppy> but let me do it :)
* proppy hugs persia
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/77b4f44d8941
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/ bug still here
<bddebian> Later folks
<norsetto> bye bddebian
<proppy> bddebian: bye
<proppy> norsetto: I must have forgot something
<ScottK> bigon: Why are you filing sync bugs now?
* ajmitch would think that it's well past time for any uploads to be accepted
<ScottK> It is.
<norsetto> proppy: can you try adding this: "cvsgraph_path =" and this "cvsgraph_conf = cvsgraph.conf" too?
<bigon> ScottK: I was trying something with requestsync, I've closed the bug as wontfix
<ScottK> bigon: OK.
<proppy> norsetto: you noticed they commented cvsdb too ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, but is also in the old one
<proppy> norsetto: let me install emacs, I can't stand vi
<norsetto> proppy: nano?
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/ still here
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/200b77115357
<norsetto> proppy: yes, that is disabled anyhow
<norsetto> proppy: since we are shooting in the dark, lets try "default_root = " too
<proppy> ok
<proppy> norsetto: just had the same idead
<proppy> norsetto: I changed default_root and it works
<norsetto> proppy: bastard of a conf file ....
<norsetto> proppy: do we still need to comment out the [templates]  ?
<proppy> http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/c56b8107f236
<proppy> http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi
<proppy> letme try it
<proppy> we must not forget to click on svn
<proppy> to figure if it really work
<proppy> s
<norsetto> proppy: yes, just did that, its ok
<proppy> let me revert the file to it upgraded state
<proppy> and just change the default_root
<proppy> norsetto: I get a different error http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/
<proppy> with just default_root
<proppy> I'll try to add the following one by one, template_dir, and then comment template option to figure out the minimal patch
<norsetto> proppy: yes, template_dir is needed anyhow, try that and default_root only first
<norsetto> proppy: it would be cool if just these two are enough, we can easily add default_root to the existing debian patch
<proppy> root@lp152438:/etc/viewvc# hg diff -r 20 -r 30 . | patch
<proppy> patching file viewvc.conf
<proppy> mercurial joy :)
<proppy> http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi
<proppy> it works
<proppy> http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/3678a4e60d59
<proppy> let me extract the patch
<norsetto> proppy: be careful, mercury is poisonous .....
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/viewvc-template-fix.patch.txt
<norsetto> proppy: thats pretty cool, we just need to modify debian patch 102_viewvc.conf_Debian_customization
<norsetto> proppy: in line with that
<norsetto> proppy: if you do that, and you can test again if an upgrade with that works, we are done .....
<proppy> let me update the launchpad bug
<proppy> with the new patch first
<norsetto> proppy: wait .....
<proppy> ?
<proppy> http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/file?root=svn&view=log
<proppy> yes
<norsetto> proppy: test it properly first, you never know, there is no rush
<proppy> you're right :)
<proppy> following failed
<proppy> when viewing a file it fails
<norsetto> proppy: ok, perhaps it needs to comment out the [templates]  too then
<proppy> yep
<proppy> that what I thought :)
<norsetto> proppy: if you read the comment, that actually makes sense
<norsetto> proppy: "Templates are specified relative to the installation directory"
<norsetto> proppy: "
<norsetto> But if you want to
<norsetto> +# use a different template for a particular view, simply uncomment
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/file?root=svn&view=log
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/bd3f4a489700
<proppy> it works
<proppy> lets fix the patch
<norsetto> proppy: so, before anything else, can you prepare a new version of patch 102_viewvc.conf_Debian_customization and check that it applies correctly during upgrade?
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/viewvc-template-fix.patch.txt
<proppy> norsetto: installing dpkg-dev
<proppy> and cdbs-edit-patch
<pkern> imbrandon, siretart: foaf:nick for team RDF will be on edge tomorrow.
<proppy> cdbs-edit-patch failed with
<proppy> root@lp152438:/usr/src/viewvc-1.0.3# cdbs-edit-patch 102_viewvc.conf_Debian_customization
<proppy> /usr/bin/cdbs-edit-patch: 30: dh_testdir: not found
<imbrandon> pkern: rockin
<proppy> does it lack a dependency ?
<proppy> to debhelper
<ajmitch> pkern: how useful
<pkern> ajmitch: Ironic?
<ajmitch> though I think that we wanted the schema extended for ssh keys as well, iirc
<ajmitch> I can't recall what the bug was now
<pkern> ajmitch: Yep, but that's IMHO not so critical because we could go to ~lpnick/+sshkeys now.
<pkern> ajmitch: As now the lpnick information is available.
<ajmitch> except that for a team like ubuntu-universe-contributors, it hits LP many many times
<ajmitch> though it was ubuntu-dev that was being scraped
<proppy> norsetto: oups norsetto the patch are quilt based
<norsetto> proppy: yes
<proppy> norsetto: so cdbs-edit-patch is no help here
<pkern> ajmitch: I heared that the ssh key information in the way it was proposed is not standarised (+spelling).
<proppy> need to find a wiki page about quilt
<pkern> Sorry, I really have to go to bed now, it's a really painful week for me.
<ajmitch> no, it's not
<norsetto> proppy: wait, I have one
<ajmitch> which is why there needed to be a special namespace for it, rather than being in foaf:
<ajmitch> pkern: good night
* persia points at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<norsetto> proppy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<proppy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FHowToPatch ?
<proppy> ok
<pkern> ajmitch: Thus I just pushed foaf:nick.  Because that's straightforward and now we don't need to scrape anymore.  wot was proposed as namespace, but it looked wrong, too.  Thanks and gn8 ;)
<norsetto> hey threee link in a row, a sure sign of good luck
<proppy> norsetto: :)
<proppy> norsetto: quilt sounds hype
<ajmitch> quilt is useful
<imbrandon> pkern: where did you learn this ?
* norsetto knew proppy was going to fall for it .....
<imbrandon> ( about the faof )
<ajmitch> probably in a bug report?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: would be a suprise, heh the bug was filed 8+ months ago
<norsetto> proppy: don't forget control and changelog need to be changed too, release is gutsy-proposed
<proppy> norsetto: wait
<proppy> norsetto: viewvc.conf.dist template options are already commented in gutsy upstream
<proppy> norsetto: so changing to patch won't do anything right ?
<norsetto>  proppy: wait a sec, the bug is for feisty?
<proppy> norsetto: feisty upgrade to gutsy
<norsetto> proppy: yes, so what do you mean by "gutsy upstream"
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/file/b494291f621b/usr/src/viewvc-1.0.3/viewvc.conf.dist
<proppy> norsetto: oups in mean gutsy sources
<proppy> I mean
<proppy> you tell me to update 102_viewvc.conf_Debian_customization
<norsetto> proppy: thats is the new .conf, which gets installed if its not an upgrade
<proppy> which update the .dist file
<proppy> it will not solve our upgrade problem
<norsetto> proppy: ah!
<norsetto> norsetto: so, this should go in viewvc.config
<norsetto> I didn't know william lima left ....
<proppy> yep was just checking it
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/file/b494291f621b/usr/src/viewvc-1.0.3/debian/viewvc.config
<proppy> norsetto: pretty scarry
<norsetto> now I'm talking with myself, whats next .....
<proppy> norsetto: they are using a python program to update the config file
<norsetto> proppy: well : default_root="cvs" is in there
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/file/b494291f621b/usr/src/viewvc-1.0.3/debian/viewvc-config
<proppy> norsetto: It will not be easy to comment some line dynamicly
<proppy> norsetto: and it really depends on how the upgrading fellow has messed up its config file
<norsetto> proppy: thats what these two scripts are trying to deal with
<norsetto> proppy: for instance: default_root=`/usr/lib/viewvc/viewvc-config --get default_root -c $VIEWVC_CONFIG_FILE`
<proppy> norsetto:
<norsetto> proppy:
<proppy> norsetto: wait default_root works after all
<proppy> norsetto: I've changed it in the viewvc.conf
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/
<proppy> norsetto: back to svn
<norsetto> proppy: right, so, why didn't before .....
<proppy> wait
<norsetto> proppy: lets do it this way for the time being, ask the reporter what  he is using for template_dir and in [templates] 
<TheMuso> Adri2000: The thing is, ubuntustudio-look worked. What I think the problem with audacious-plugins is that audacious-plugins-extra has a pre-depends on audacious-plugins
<proppy> norsetto: interesting
<norsetto> proppy: ask him to change template_dirs to /etc/viewvcs/ and comment out the template dirs in ] templates]  (unless he used those)
<norsetto> proppy: at least that would be a work-around
<proppy> norsetto: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/viewvc/+bug/152438 updated
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Medium,Confirmed] 
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-17
<fernando> is right /etc/ca-certificates.conf deactive all entries by default?
<bddebian> ruffleS: Then you are on your own unfortunately, we can't help you. Sorry.
<norsetto> rufleS: well, any reason not to use the feisty package you have?
<ruffleS> norsetto, 'cuz it doesn't work on gutsy, the kernel module won't load
<Schnitz_> Hobbsee: thanks for the hint
<ruffleS> bddebian, thanks anyway
<ruffleS> i'll try to figure out something
<bddebian> ruffleS: Did you ask around in #ubuntu?
<ruffleS> not yet
<norsetto> ruffleS: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/488
<ruffleS> norsetto, yeah i've seen that already
<YokoZar> SRUs are the "updates" repository right?
<Kmos> YokoZar: yes
<ScottK> YokoZar: Yes.  How's Wine looking?
<YokoZar> ScottK: I found I'm missing a lib compiled in on 64 bit :(
<YokoZar> So the 64 bit package is built without libxml support
<YokoZar> I'm testing a rebuild with hand-linking it on my machine now.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ScottK> YokoZar: We can push stuff to gutsy-proposed now so it gets out in gutsy-updates as quickly as possible.
<ScottK> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<norsetto> sistpoty: hi there
<sistpoty> keescook: just stumbled over LP bug #64373. revu already contains code for this problem ;)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64373 in launchpad "[wishlist] download gpg keyring for a team" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64373
<sistpoty> hi norsetto
<norsetto> how is it scottk?
<YokoZar> ScottK: can I move it up to Wine 0.9.47 then?
<YokoZar> ScottK: or should I keep it at 0.9.46 and save the later versions for backports?
<ScottK> Keep it at 0.9.46 and keep 0.9.47 for backports (We'll upload it to Hardy as soon as the repos open and then backport it).
<geser> YokoZar: I don't know if wine has a special rule but new versions don't get included in -updates
<ScottK> hey norsetto.  Trying to squash bugs in something I'm upstream for.
<ScottK> The good news is I got a new user who's very "detail oriented".  The bad news is I got work to do.
<norsetto> scottk: hehe
<keescook> sistpoty: heh, cool.  :)
<sistpoty> keescook: well, revu needs the keyring of ubuntu-universe-contributors to check if a source package should get accepted. I'm not sure how messy the code is though :P
<keescook> yeah, I figure it just does a fetch from the keyserver.
<sistpoty> keescook: iirc, yes... the revu-key script called with update is the entry point to follow what the current hacked up revu does ;)
<ajmitch> good morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch, bddebian and geser
<pochu> hi ajmitch, bddebian, geser ans sistpoty :)
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<bddebian> and pochu
<sistpoty> hi pochu
<geser> Hi pochu
 * ajmitch should not start off an avalanche of greetings
<zul> hey ajmitch
<sistpoty> yay, light bulb burned, fuse went out :(
<jdong> sistpoty: does that mean ntfs-3g stopped working?
 * jdong ducks
<bddebian> heh
<sistpoty> jdong: ntfs-3g? no... it meant rather that my gf's laptop was still on, while my box was off... the usual "damn, I did s.th. wrong when studying computer science" kind of feeling ;)
<jdong> bddebian: I am the king of bad puns :)
<sistpoty> lucas: seems like mdt is broken, or am I using the wrong url (your people.debian.org adress)?
<Schnitz> how can i specify if a package is in multiverse or universe when i create it?
<Schnitz> i've searched with google and the wiki and tried grep -ir universe/multiverse but couldn't find anything
<sistpoty> Schnitz: usually it get's set by the archive admins based on the details specified in debian/copyright. but I guess you can give hints by setting the section field of control to multiverse/$section.
<sistpoty> (though I'm only guessing here as this field can definitely be overrided by an archive admin
<sistpoty> +)
<Schnitz> okay i've packaged something and uploaded it to my ppa and now it doesn't build there because it requires a package from multiverse
<Schnitz> i thought i could specify that somewhere when creating the source package...thanks for your hint
<sistpoty> Schnitz: for ppa, I believe the control file I mentioned is responsible, though I'm not too sure there
<sistpoty> Schnitz: you could ask in #launchpad though, or try searching the launchpad-user mailing list, as I'm sure this was discussed before
<geser> Schnitz: when you need build-depends from universe add "universe/" to your section
<geser> this should also work for multiverse but I don't know if ppa supports multiverse (see the ppa terms)
<lamego> I think it does not
<pochu> lamego: I think it does :)
<pochu> From a discussion in #launchpad some days ago.
<geser> is gutsy-proposed already available?
<lamego> I am based on the welcome to launchpad doc, but, I did a quick reading at that time
<lamego> welcome to PPA, I mean
<sistpoty> pochu: but it would be a license violation to upload anything to the multiverse section to ppa then? seems like easy sueable targets for me :P
<pochu> sistpoty: well, you can have a package which is GPL, but needs something from multiverse to build? Your package will still be GPL, just deppending on a library from multiverse?
<lamego> if it the resulting binaries installation requires multiverse packages, I guess that could be a legal issue
<sistpoty> pochu: I guess that's a corner case though... and actually I was kidding a little bit ;)
<pochu> lamego: why? you are still able to distribute it, aren't you?
<ScottK> We do have packages like that in the repository.  zekr for one if FOSS, but depends on stuff in multiverse, so is doomed to live there too.
<lamego> pochu, if it drives an user to do something illegal, without warning him, I am doing something illegal, I guess
<lamego> but well, I am not a lawyer :)
<pochu> lamego: sorry, what's illegal there?
<pochu> lamego: neither am I ;)
<soren> hansin: If not, python-flup is probably the answer to your prayers.
<ScottK> multiverse stuff is legally distributable, just has other restrictions on it.
<lamego> there are multiverse packages, which do violate patents in some countries, correct ?
<soren> What the..
<pochu> lamego: well, I just said the use of multiverse/ is supported. Nothing else :)
<pochu> lamego: and not always. Those are special cases, afaik.
<lamego> pochu, right, but distributing those binaries depending on universe packages, without a proper warning may not be supported, for legal reasons
<lamego> ops, multiverse
<pochu> Dunno. But since you aren't shipping that package...
<lamego> pochu, not always, but some, do, on some countries, at least they are tagged on the software sources as "Restricted by copyright or legal issues" ;)
<lamego> "You agree to indemnify and hold Canonical Ltd, and its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, partners, and employees, harmless from any alleged claim or"
<lamego> I am not going to use PPAs :)
<pochu> heh
<ScottK> lamego: That's one thing we agree on.
<ScottK> lamego: See Bug 137447
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137447 in soyuz "PPA Terms of Service one sided" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137447
<sistpoty> damn, I didn't want to start a holy war :P ... but anyways I'm off to bed now, gn8 everyone
<lamego> I will go a bit further, I think Canonical should provide legal advice for those which may need to upload a software for which the legal status is unclear
<norsetto> night all
<Jazzva> I prepared two bugfixes in gnome-schedule. Both bugs are reported. Can I upload them as a single diff, or do I have to separte them?
<TheMuso> Jazzva: Are they for the same package?
<Jazzva> TheMuso: Yep. It's just that they're two distinct bugs. I suppose I could add two lines in changelogs with both LP bug numbers. I'm just not sure if that's the right way...
<TheMuso> Jazzva: Yes, one diff with both bug fixes mentioned in the changelog is fine.
<Jazzva> TheMuso: Thanks :)...
<TheMuso> np
<Jazzva> Another question: One of them has been fixed upstream, but the new version is still not in the repositories. Can I provide the bugfix that will fix the version in the repositories?
<TheMuso> Yes I guess you could, but since its a gnome package, you may want to consult the desktop team about that.
<Jazzva> TheMuso: Ok... thanks again :).
<TheMuso> np
<knix> When is eclipse goin gto be updated to 3.3?
<ajmitch> knix: when hardy is being developed, it won't happen for gutsy
<ajmitch> there may be a slim chance of it getting into gutsy-backports
<knix> Yea I didn't expect it to happen in a day :P
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-18
<RAOF_> knix: When it (Eclipse) takes less than 19 hours to build on my amd64 box with 1 Gb of ram
<knix> hahaha
<knix> Makes for fun patching :)
<ajmitch> RAOF_: get 4GB
<crimsun> well, these flac fixes are full of dismay.
<ajmitch> you won't regret it
<ajmitch> hello crimsun
<crimsun> hello
<RAOF_> ajmitch: Maybe I should, at that.
<TheMuso> crimsun: How so?
<crimsun> TheMuso: just looking at CVE-2007-4619 and the work necessary to backport the malloc() checks.
<ubotu> Multiple integer overflows in Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) libFLAC before 1.2.1, as used in Winamp before 5.5 and other products, allow user-assisted remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via a malformed FLAC file that triggers improper memory allocation, resulting in a heap-based buffer overflow. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-4619)
<ajmitch> sounds evil enough
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<imbrandon> quiet night
<ajmitch> release time, so noone has anything to do
<ScottK> gutsy-proposed is calling you ...
<ScottK> Well, not ajmitch, since he doesn't upload anymore ;-)
<ajmitch> correct, which is why I should disable my core-dev membership
<ajmitch> thanks for reminding me to do so
<ScottK> Bah.
<ScottK> Gimme a few minutes and I can whip up a Dapper source backport for you to upload.
<imbrandon> heh its been a few months since i've uploaded a main package, i'm sure that wil change in the next few weeks
<pwnguin> speaking of sponsorship
<imbrandon> pwnguin: need something ?
<pwnguin> well yes
<pwnguin> eventually
<imbrandon> :)
<pwnguin> ive been massagign thinkign finger, and figured id see what i could do to get it fixed up nicely in hardy
<crimsun> What a far cry from Breezy, heh.  Uploading right up til the archive froze.  Oh wait, I guess it's not that different after all...
<imbrandon> just poke me, long as it isnt UDS week or OpenWeek i should have time
<pwnguin> do you need extra acks when someone's offered a NACK?
<imbrandon> nack?
<ajmitch> crimsun: except that 'archive freeze' was about an hour before the isos were official & public
<RAOF> imbrandon: Negative ack.
<imbrandon> crimsun: hehe yea breezy and dapper and feisty right untill freeze, gutsy is the only time i have "slacked" afaik
<bddebian> I have some package fuckage I did if someone is bored :-)
<imbrandon> +edgy
<pwnguin> err
<imbrandon> pwnguin: afaik one nack negates all ack's, the package must be fixed
<pwnguin> hmm
<imbrandon> if the policy is still the same
<pwnguin> thats sad
<pwnguin> well, i havent officially recieved an NACK
<pwnguin> so if im rather careful about it...
<imbrandon> yea it rarely happens but when it does it needs to be fixed
<pwnguin> the deal is
<pwnguin> the bugs arent in thinkfinger
<crimsun> the knights who say NACK
<bddebian> haha
<RAOF> Surely the NACK is pointing out actual problems?  So either you make an argument that it's too hard to fix and there's net benefit, or you fix it, right?
<pwnguin> thinkfinger's pam module works fine with sudo
<imbrandon> RAOF: right
<pwnguin> it doesnt work so well with gnome-screensaver
<imbrandon> btw howdy crimsun , ltns
<RAOF> Indeed.  Howdie crimsun!
<pwnguin> it feels strange to block a package because it doesnt integrate well with packages that DONT integrate with anything
<RAOF> So argue that point?
<pwnguin> suppose i will
<RAOF> :)
<imbrandon> pwnguin: not sure about that specific instance , but yea as RAOF said i would just argue that point and it should stand
<pwnguin> but do you argue to the NACK guy or to some higher power?
<pwnguin> s/argue/plead
<imbrandon> "most" of the time the nack IS the higher power, but either
<imbrandon> imho
<pwnguin> does ubuntu regularly not include packages in debian testing?
<imbrandon> no it should include all debian unstable , expiramental needs a specific "ask and you shall recieve" bug filed
<ajmitch> automatic sync happens from debian unstable, which is where packages for debian testing come from
<pwnguin> right. are there cases where ubuntu vetoes a debian decision to put a package in unstable?
<ajmitch> a few cases
<ajmitch> there's a blacklist of packages that don't get synced somewhere
<imbrandon> afaik webmin is one
<pwnguin> this would be handy for me to look at, i think
<imbrandon> thats the only one i know of
<ajmitch> imbrandon: how about all the kernel packages back in the day?
<imbrandon> ahh yea
<imbrandon> those too
<slangasek> webmin isn't in Debian
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> that doesnt count
<slangasek> so any blacklist for that would be legacy
<pwnguin> kernels dont count
<imbrandon> slangasek: yea , thats all i could rember though
<imbrandon> :)
<pwnguin> is there a period of time where people evaluate the blacklist and add things to it?
<ajmitch> unlikely
<ajmitch> however I'm not an archive admin so I can't say
<imbrandon> i think its just done on a "as needed" hing
<imbrandon> thing*
<pwnguin> ah. so things can become unpublished
<imbrandon> slangasek: is the blacklist in the seeds file , or ummm
<StevenK> No, the blacklist is seperate.
<imbrandon> figured so
<slangasek> actually, there is a blacklist in the seeds repo
<slangasek> and webmin is in it
<ajmitch> what a surprise
<ScottK> Just in case...
<slangasek> AFAIK this is the blacklist in question
<ajmitch> it's quality software
<imbrandon> slangasek: ahh i was thinking i seen it on the list last i checked
<imbrandon> but its been 6 months since i looked at the seeds
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> just so i understand: packages published in unstable but not previously published in universe need to be looked at rather than automatically pulled in?
<imbrandon> no durring autosync they are pulled in
<RAOF> pwnguin: Only after DebianImportFreeze as I understand it.
<ajmitch> I believe that keybuk was giving them a cursory check before 'autosync'
<ScottK> ajmitch: Don't they just land in NEW.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'm not sure of the exact order of events with syncs
<imbrandon> syncs MIGHT bypass NEW, i dont rember
<ScottK> I know that requested syncs hit NEW.  Cause I had one rejected by (IIRC) Mithrandir.
<ScottK> I'd figure the automatic ones did too.
<StevenK> RAOF: Keep in mind the freeze names have changed
 * StevenK kicks GTK and GnomeVFS
<RAOF> Oh, of course.  I'll need to check those for Hardy.
<ajmitch> StevenK: right, MagicalPixieDustFreeze is up first, no?
 * RAOF kicks programs that don't do GnomeVFS (emacs, I'm looking at *you*)
<StevenK> RAOF: That'd rock.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Hmph.
<RAOF> Come on gvfs!  Let me bask in your FUSE backend.
<imbrandon> RAOF: easy to fix `sudo rm /usr/bin/emacs && sudo ln -s /usr/bin/nano /usr/bin/emacs` and stop using GNOME ;)
<StevenK> RAOF: I'll hold down imbrandon, you belt him.
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> get back under your bridge
<StevenK> Hrm.
<RAOF> Although sshfs does much of what I want emacs to do.
<StevenK> What's the GNOME API browser thing called?
<ajmitch> devhelp?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<StevenK> Great, ta
<pwnguin> RAOF: oh, is gvfs going to be FUSE based?
 * ajmitch really can't remember, having not used it
<RAOF> pwnguin: No, but on linux it'll have a FUSE linkage.
<pwnguin> it would be neat if nautilus could set up something so that mplayer would play nice
<RAOF> pwnguin: It *can't* be FUSE based, because FUSE doesn't work on !linux
<RAOF> s/work/exist/
<pwnguin> thats what i thouhgt
<pwnguin> i didnt think they hated BSD quite that muhc
<awalton__> pwnguin: it uses fuse
<awalton__> but it isn't fuse-based.
<awalton__> it also can use samba
<RAOF> awalton__: Uuuum.  In what way "can use samba".
<awalton__> well, it's a VFS, so it can mount samba shares
<RAOF> Ah, right.
<awalton__> the code already works for that, I've been running Gvfs for a couple of weeks now and it works great.
<imbrandon> cifs in the fstab for the win, fsk what the app supports, if its mounted it better "see" it ;)
<RAOF> That's not what we're talking about.  gvfs will *export* it's stuff over FUSE.  So apps that don't use gvfs can still work.
<TheMuso> So what happens for non-Linuxes, like solaris? Will they still need gnome-vfs?
<RAOF> Yes
<RAOF> They just won't get the FUSE linkage.
<TheMuso> Right.
<jdong> it seems liek the BSD's are picking up FUSE too
<RAOF> The idea is that everything that can use gvfs (ie: all gnome apps) will.  And the FUSE stuff is just to make non-gnome apps less annoying.
<jdong> at least desiging fuse compatible API's
<imbrandon> bah, i just say mount what you need
<jdong> so that'll be cool when it all works out
<imbrandon> kde trys that shit with media:// and such, vfs's need to diaf
<TheMuso> imbrandon: But they really do make things easier for users, particularly when you just want to browse a network, and grab a file quickly.
<TheMuso> Mounting is just too much screwing around for something so small.
 * ScottK just uses sftp and doesn't worry.
<RAOF> Or to browse a network, *edit* a file quickly...
<TheMuso> RAOF: That too.
<awalton__> theoretically, the vfs could just be a smart layer over mount.. but practically it doesn't make a lot of sense.
<RAOF> It's kinda annoying to scp, edit scp
<TheMuso> I'm the same in that anything I use regularly, I mount, other than that, vfs FTW.
<RAOF> gvfs may even end up cross-desktop, too, from what I remember.
<pwnguin> i definately dont want my laptop mounting cifs on boot
<imbrandon> untill EVERY app supports the vfs without interaction, e.g. a lower layer , they will be crap imho
<pwnguin> well thats what fuse is for
<pwnguin> its a vfs in userspace api
<pwnguin> with kernel support
<jdong> VUSE!
<awalton__> well gvfs/gio was designed to go into glib, to supercede the posix-based stuff, so that any one who just wants to open a file will use it.
<jdong> VUSEWKS
<awalton__> (of course the posix stuff will still be there, so there will always be apps that won't use it)
<imbrandon> if i cant copy from the address bar of my app and paste it to a cli and use it, it wont fly imho
<imbrandon> and vice versa
<pwnguin> which again, is what fuse provides
<imbrandon> sweet, it it works that way great, i just have never seen it in action
<pwnguin> you've never used sshfs?
<awalton__> imbrandon: definitely try it out
<awalton__> it's great.
<pwnguin> fuse is awesome
<imbrandon> pwnguin: only via fstab, i only use a FS if i can mount it in fstab
<jdong> imbrandon: FUSE is the best thing ever :)
<jdong> imbrandon: FUSE can be mounted in fstab
<imbrandon> jdong: i know
<jdong> sshfs keeps me alive :)
<pwnguin> the strike against FUSE is that it requires kernel support
<jdong> pwnguin: agreed....
<pwnguin> but what it does is allow user space apps to present a mounted FS
<pwnguin> via the fuse kernel module
<imbrandon> how is that an issue though, load fuse once, use any fuse based FS right ?
<pwnguin> whenever a write comes in to that fs, it's passed on to the user space program that registered itself to handle it
<pwnguin> its an issue when you run GNOME on BSD
<pwnguin> or Solaris
<pwnguin> linux aint the only kernel in town ;)
<imbrandon> or win32 or osx ?
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> solaris is far more common, I'd say
<pwnguin> well, osx has a fuse driver
<imbrandon> i run kde on darwin quite often ;)
<awalton__> well, it doesn't sound like it would be too hard to write modules for other OSes and then just use the same userspace code.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you're not normal
<awalton__> but I haven't looked under the hood of FUSE so I wouldn't know.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe
<imbrandon> ajmitch: its actualy faster with the darwin kernel on my G3 vs a linux one
<imbrandon> with KDE
<imbrandon> dunno why
<jdong> OSX and FreeBSD both seem to have a FUSE driver
<jdong> but yeah, FUSE aims to provide a uniform API for userland FUSE FS'es
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> darwin ought to have a fuse driver
<pwnguin> its based on mach
<ajmitch> 'based on' doesn't mean that it'd be easy to hack something in
<pwnguin> it does when mach is about filesystems in userspace
<pwnguin> really, minix and friends feel like they've got it backwards when they talk about microkernels being safer / more stable
<pwnguin> if my filesystem crashes
<pwnguin> i dont want to restart
<pwnguin> i want to cry
<pwnguin> same goes for MM
<pwnguin> hardware drivers, on the other hand...
<imbrandon> wow the FUSE for darwin/osx was paid for by google
<imbrandon> http://theappleblog.com/2007/01/12/google-releases-fuse-for-osx/
<awalton__> yay google.
<TheMuso> Surely that means OS X can also get NTFS 3g.
<pwnguin> http://googlemac.blogspot.com/2007/01/taming-mac-os-x-file-systems.html
<pwnguin> i didnt know that guy worked for google
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> amit singh:
<pwnguin> Manager of Macintosh Engineering
<imbrandon> .
 * imbrandon wonders how much bandwidth ubuntu.com is pushing right now 
<pwnguin> im pretty sure drupal errors are cheap
<ScottK> So "partner" is now an Ubuntu component: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opera/+publishinghistory
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> sounds alot like commercial
<awalton__> I think that's what they renamed it.
<ScottK> It is
<imbrandon> ahh so its not a ubuntu component, its a canonical one
<ScottK> Well not the way it shows there.
<lifeless> well
<ScottK> It shows there as an Ubuntu component.
<lifeless> its a component supplied by canonical which is for ubuntu.
<imbrandon> err lifeless WHAT!?!
<ScottK> Package source page says "opera in Ubuntu"
<imbrandon> no commercial was on the canonical domain not the ubuntu one
<ScottK> Not for.
<pwnguin> well now its on the launchpad domain
<imbrandon> ScottK, lifeless : must be a bug in LP in the way it shows, it dosent exist in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/
<pwnguin> wait
<pwnguin> LP has a source package to opera?
<awalton__> no
<imbrandon> pwnguin: yes, but a source package can contain binary of opera to package ;)
<ScottK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9522826/opera_9.23-20070809.6gutsy1.tar.gz
<awalton__> what imbrandon said.
<imbrandon> e.g. i can package any binary, i dont nessesarly have to have the source to make a src deb
<pwnguin> well i just saw "libx11-dev build-deps"
<pwnguin> in the changelog
<imbrandon> ScottK: no its still on the canonical domain , http://archive.canonical.com/dists/gutsy/
<imbrandon> they just renamed the component and there is a bug in LP in the way it represents it
<ScottK> imbrandon: Why do you assume it's a bug?
<imbrandon> because it is not part of ubuntu, and it represents its self as if it is
<ScottK> I agree with that, I just don't know that someone else didn't have a different idea.
<imbrandon> actualy it dosent say what its for, those components could be for anything
<ScottK> It does.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opera says, "Opera in Ubuntu".
<JanC> maybe there is the need to compile some stubs or something?
<imbrandon> dosent matter, opera is packaged in the canonical repo not the ubuntu one
<imbrandon> JanC: ^
<JanC> imbrandon, I was thinking about why the build deps on -dev packages
<JanC> and I installed it from the canonical repo already earlier this night
<imbrandon> ScottK: confirm this for me please
<imbrandon> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/153798
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153798 in launchpad "canonical partner repo packages showing as "in ubuntu"" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> Done
<imbrandon> thanks
<imbrandon> i just poked #launchpad about it, we'll see what they say
<StevenK> Oh, let's give them a URL one character per line, it'd drive them mad.
<ScottK> Good.  Someon other than me complaining.
<ScottK> Someon/Someone
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Good idea.
<ajmitch> I don't understand why people are so anxious & impatient today
<Fujitsu> It's midnight where I am, so it *must* be released NOW!
 * ScottK doesn't understand why they don't just install the RC and then upgrade and relax.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: For a moment, I thought you were serious
<ajmitch> StevenK: because we know that sabdfl will release it personally at exactly 00:00UTC
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Sure.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Which was 4 and a half hours ago.
<ajmitch> that's of no concern
<Fujitsu> StevenK: The pipes are clogged.
<ajmitch> though there was definitely a countdown then
 * TheMuso notes the time till he has to start getting ready to head down to Sydney for the Sydney release party.
 * ajmitch notes that he isn't going to any release party, and hasn't been to one yet
<StevenK> ajmitch: Why not?
<ajmitch> because they never tend to happen
<ajmitch> I can just waste time at home instead
 * StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> Now there is talk about the whole world being the 18th before it releases
<ajmitch> it happens every time
<Fujitsu> It does.
<Fujitsu> They never get it.
<macd> the more they refresh the closer it comes.
<macd> the just _know_ it
<minghua> I also find it interesting that many casual users assumes that Ubuntu/Canonical must be operating on British time.
<minghua> s/interesting/amusing/, I think.
<StevenK> Indeed
<ajmitch> in recent times that's been quite true
<slangasek> a watched iso never boils.
<Fujitsu> Hi slangasek.
 * slangasek moos
<StevenK> slangasek: Never burns, surely? :-)
 * Fujitsu sends some grass to slangasek.
<ajmitch> slangasek: enjoying the tension of the people waiting?
<slangasek> StevenK: get your own metaphor
 * Fujitsu accidentally hits the red button on the way.
<StevenK> slangasek: I enjoy borrowing other peoples
<Hobbsee> morning slangasek.  so you're not hungover, then
<slangasek> a little early to be hungover, isn't it?
<slangasek> (also not morning)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Not yet, you mean.
<ajmitch> slangasek: you're with canonical - it's never too early, or late
<minghua> slangasek: You are still living in the US, right?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Hahah.
<slangasek> ajmitch: that's drunkenness, not hangovers
<slangasek> minghua: yep
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Nice one.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :D
<ajmitch> true, being hungover generally requires that you actually stop drinking
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha.  jono doesnt do that
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you should have been +o
 * TheMuso ponders joining -releaseparty to see whats going on...
<Hobbsee> oh yeah
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: espeak won't be able to keep up!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You *are* evil.
<ajmitch> isn't it great?
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'd give you about 90 seconds in there... :-)
<minghua> From what I heard in -devel, I think staying away from -release-party is good for my health.
<ajmitch> wall of text crits for 8700
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i know.
<TheMuso> StevenK, Fujitsu, likely enough..
<macd> Its easier to just watch the chaos
<ajmitch> watching the chaos as Hobbsee stirs away
<Fujitsu> It's horrible!
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee is doing a great job.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yup :)
<Hobbsee> this is the best part about release :P
<macd> yeah wait about 15 minuts till their buffers are full, then just go in hit the ubotu trigger for that and watch them all cry
<Fujitsu> Bah. Evil LaserJock.
<macd> "but it says RC on the download I want the real gutsy"
<macd> can't wait to see that one.
<minghua> That #ubuntu-release-party is pure madness.
<jcastro> craziness!
<rob> I'm glad that craziness is in there and not #ubuntu itself
<ajmitch> loads of fun
<ajmitch> jcastro: yo
<jcastro> aj!!!!
<imbrandon> ugh cant sleep ( again )
<imbrandon> heya whip
<ajmitch> hehe
<StevenK> imbrandon: Read some autoconf macros. Apparently, they can induce a coma
<imbrandon> lol
<jcastro> imbrandon: welcome to the insomniac's club
<imbrandon> i could compile hurd, bddebian hints its a bedtime story
<ajmitch> I thought you wanted sleep, not pain
<imbrandon> jcastro: btw i ment to ask , why the nick change? just something diffrent ?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: heh
<pwnguin> if you're just looking to pass the time, http://ppa.launchpad.net/jldugger/ubuntu has several games i pulled from debian
<jcastro> imbrandon: "jorge" was taken, and like I was telling aj, a nick based on an old shitty sega game that sucked wasn't so inspiring
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> yea , "brandon"
<imbrandon> was taken too
 * TheMuso is off.
<ajmitch> bye
<RAOF> See ya!
<bddebian> What, someone mentioned Hurd? :-)
<ajmitch> as a way to cure insomnia
<ajmitch> don't get all excited
<bddebian> heh
<TheMuso> RAOF: Will I be seeing you tonight?
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> gnight TheMuso
<RAOF> TheMuso: Probably not at this point.  Work and all. :/
<TheMuso> oh well
 * TheMuso -> gone
<RAOF> Have fun anyway!
<bddebian> Gnight folks
 * ScottK despairs at ever making secvpn actually work.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: come anyway, dammit.
 * ajmitch would like to be there, but can't
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Maybe.
<RAOF> Hm.  Someone's ubuntuforums sig is "you can enable hyperthreading on non P4 systems!!!!!1111"
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Are you going to be there?
<JanC> RAOF, well, Sun's T1/T2 chips have some sort of hyperthreading too  ;)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yes.  therefore, you have to come.
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if Ideastorm is a (tm) ?
<RAOF> JanC: :P
<ajmitch> JanC: they have hardware threads, rather than the hyperthreading illusion
<JanC> yeah, it's different, but in some ways it's similar too
<ajmitch> though the whole chip is designed around highly parallel loads
 * ajmitch got to put ubuntu on a T2000 at one point
<RAOF> HT, aka "our chips really, really hate pipline stalls.  Let's make this happen as little as possible"
<JanC> well, it seems like Intel learned to go another path  :)
<RAOF> There's probably an 'e' in pipeline.  Positioning it in the previous statement is left as an exercise for the reader.
<StevenK> RAOF: But that was because the pipeline was insanely long, right?
<RAOF> StevenK: Yes.
<StevenK> My CPU theory is very rusty
<RAOF> Because having a very high clockspeed was good for sales.
<RAOF> And for making your CPU dissipate >100W of heat.
<ajmitch> mmm, toasty warm
<JanC> I don't know the details, but I guess Sun makes sure taht they have enough I/O to keep data flowing through the CPU  :)
<StevenK> And having the heatsink you sell by default only dissipate what the CPU can put out idle.
<StevenK> Oh wait, that was AMD
 * ajmitch fondly recalls that athlon xp running at >90C
<StevenK> And that would be why. :-)
<RAOF> The P4 in my uni computer has a fan that has 3 settings: loud, worryingly loud, and 'geez I hope it's not going to die!'.
<JanC> my brand-new C2Q Q6600 runs at 30 Â°C or something like that  :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Loud, worrying loud, and "Geez, that fan left a big hole in the case, didn't it?"
<ajmitch> coldest I've seen mine run at now was about 24C
<JanC> and I can't even hear the fans in it
<ajmitch> on a rather cold winters day
<RAOF> The first time I heard it on it's maximum settings I was seriously woried.
 * StevenK hasn't tried to monitor the temperature of his AMD64
<RAOF> (Yay Sydney summers.)
<StevenK> RAOF: (Agreed.)
<ajmitch> yay dunedin winters
<JanC> the Q6600 was running at 24Â°C in the BIOS too, but I guess it might be a little warmer now
<StevenK> That isn't accurate, since the BIOS doesn't make idle calls
<JanC> you mean, it might be lower outside the BIOS?
 * StevenK nods
<JanC> that would be really nuts  :P
<RAOF> Altough it's unlikely to be lower than ambient temperature :)
<JanC> if they keep going that way, I'll have to isolate my next computer to prevent me from freezing
<JanC> :P
<StevenK> I'd expect it to be a few degrees warmer than ambient
<RAOF> I suppose with a peltier it *could* be lower than ambient temp.
<RAOF> Spelling is for the week. :P
<StevenK> RAOF: Oh, wah
<StevenK> RAOF: Go back to marking, as punishment. :-P
<ajmitch> evil
<JanC> now, if they could invent better heat flow in laptops (my laptop shows 46-59 Â°C CPU temp most of the time while running)
<RAOF> StevenK: No marking this week!  Test next week, then a couple of weeks, then *exams*!
<JanC> and that's a mobile CPU, not a monster like this quad core thing...
<imbrandon> hell my desktop run about 70C most of the time, well it did untill i replaced it this month
<StevenK> RAOF: Ah, so you won't want to scoop your eyeballs out until you're marking the exams?
<RAOF> Pretty much.
<imbrandon> wb LaserJock
<LaserJock> chaos, simply chaos
<imbrandon> i'm just waiting for "Gutsy Released" to show up on digg
<JanC> bah, I wonder if my desktop uses no more power than my laptop, while being about 5x as powerful  :-/
<JanC> well, it probably uses more power, but when it would have a low-power CPU it wouldn't
<JanC> and of course my desktop has no built-in LCD  :)
<dholbach> good morning
<luk_> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey luk_
<kahrytan> Bug #153812
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153812 in ubuntu "Package startup-manager for repository and possibly add it to a ubuntu release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153812
<kahrytan> Tag Bug #153812 as wishlist please.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153812 in ubuntu "Package startup-manager for repository and possibly add it to a ubuntu release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153812
<BugMaN> good gutsy for everyone! :)
<AnAnt> Hello, if I use reportbug will it report to Ubuntu or Debian ?
<ScottK> AnAnt: If it's the Ubuntu reportbug, by default it reports to Ubuntu.
<BugMaN> AnAnt: on Ubuntu
<AnAnt> ok, thanks !
<nenolod> anyone here know anything about gnupg?
<Hobbsee> sure.  it exists?
<nenolod> for some reason, my gnupg setup has decided to stop signing e-mail, .debs, etcetera
<nenolod> it says "pinentry-gtk2: Assuan processing failed: write error" :/
<ScottK> nenolod: Are you on Gutsy (did you just upgrade)?
<nenolod> ScottK, the machine it is happening on is running 7.04
<ScottK> OK.
<norsetto> Look at that, I just get in after a good night of sleep, and who is talking? The The-Sun-Never-Goes-Down-In-My-House ScottK!
<ScottK> nenolod: Look in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf and see if it there is 'use=agent' in it.
<ScottK> norsetto: Yeah.  I REALLY need to get to bed.
<nenolod> ScottK, no use=agent.
<ScottK> nenolod: When you are signing, I think, pinentry only gets called if gpg-agent is involved, so my suggestion would be to add that and install gpg-agent if you don't have it.
<ScottK> nenolod: Althought this is a Kmail specific page, the gpg part is generic: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KMailGPGAgent#head-c6757d6675d3932eaeffb136479725842a81d9b6
 * ScottK really goes to be bed this time... No, really.
<nenolod> oh ffs
<nenolod> it ate my key
<persia> Ate your key?
<nenolod> yes
<nenolod> i created a new key, and it uses that one fine
<nenolod> :D
 * nenolod figures out how to issue a revoke request
 * persia hopes nenolod either has a revocation certificate or never sync'd the first key
<nenolod> persia, yeah. i'm going to make a revocation certificate now- or try to.
<persia> nenolod: You need the secret key & the passphrase to generate the revocation certificate.  Perhaps you could generate one for the new key, and put it in a safe place?
<nenolod> persia, sounds like a good idea
<persia> nenolod: Also, if you're not sure about your backup & revocation procedures, you might want to set your key to expire in a year or so: extending expiry is fairly easy, but lost valid keys are annoying.
<nenolod> persia, yeah. it expires in few months anyway.
<nenolod> oh ffs
<nenolod> it won't let me generate a new key now
<nenolod> giving: "gpg: problem with the agent: Invalid IPC response"
<nenolod> so maybe my key is ok
<persia> nenolod: Are you running an agent?
<nenolod> yes
<persia> nenolod: Try exiting the agent, and starting the process again.
<nenolod> persia, no change
<persia> nenolod: Hrm.  I suspect something is funny with your user (or there'd be more bugs).  Perhaps try with a test user (perhaps on console) to make sure that gpg is working properly on the system, and with an agent (perhaps in a nested X, or alternate console) to get the settings right?
<persia> (remember not to upload the test user key)
<nenolod> persia, sec.
<nenolod> it works with another user
<nenolod> :/
<nenolod> maybe restarting will fix it.
<persia> nenolod: Try logout/login before restart.
<nenolod> ok.
<nenolod> it works on console with my user.
<nenolod> brb
<nenolod> hmm. works with pinentry-curses, but not pinentry-gtk-2.
<persia> nenolod: Are you using GNOME or xfce?
<nenolod> xfce.
 * persia refrains from recommending seahorse-agent
<nenolod> would take work with icedove?
<nenolod> that*
<persia> nenolod: Why?  I won't recommend it because it depends on lots of libraries you probably don't want to load, but I'm not sure that the choice of agent and the choice of client are related in any way.
<huats> morning all
<nenolod> persia, well since it works, i can probably export my private key
<nenolod> and then just install gutsy on here
<nenolod> :D
<persia> nenolod: Your original key, or the new one?
<nenolod> original
<persia> Excellent :)  Also, for peace of mind, you might consider making a hard copy of your revocation certificate.  It's not something you necessarily want to be easily available electronically, but it is something you'll want to be able to access if your computer melts.
<warp10> Hi all!
 * minghua just backs up the whole ~/.gnupg dir.
<minghua> (and hope that's enough)
<persia> minghua: Offsite?
<minghua> gpg's man page is the most confusing one I've read.
<minghua> persia: Yes, on a USB disk.
<persia> minghua: That's probably good enough.  It's an interesting balance: some might say keeping your secret key offsite is an invitation for compromise to those that control the offsite facility, but just keeping revocation certificates offsite means one loses the ability to self-identify in the event of data loss.
<minghua> Oh.  I don't think I have such high security concerns.
<minghua> If someone breaks into my home and have access to my GPG key backup, I have more important things to worry about.
<persia> minghua: "my home" is offsite?  I was imagining non-human influences (EM field, fire, earthquake, etc.)
<minghua> persia: And shouldn't people never let their key leave them if they really care about key security anyway?
<minghua> persia: Oh.  So "offsite" means like somewhere across the country?
 * minghua is a pretty sloppy GPG key keeper.
<persia> minghua: Perhaps.  Key maintenance is always a balance.  I usually define "offsite" as "not in the same physical building", although I don't typically use adjacent buildings (and I've never been involved with a catastrophe with more than ~1km direct influence)
<minghua> persia: I keep one copy on a USB disk, another one on my laptop.  Is that really bad maintenance?
 * nenolod waits for gutsy ISO to finalise
<slangasek> minghua: keeping one on your laptop is regarded as poor maintenance...
<minghua> slangasek: But my USB disk partition is not encrypted, I always feel that there is a higher chance that I lose my USB disk than my laptop.
<slangasek> minghua: a laptop is a higher-profile target for theft
<minghua> I realize it's poor maintenance, I just don't know how to do better.
<minghua> That's true.  I hear a lot of stolen-laptop-and-gpg-key stories.
<persia> minghua: Obviously, you should have a dedicated offline keysigning machine, in a secure facility, with several revocation certificates in alternate secure facilities :)
<minghua> persia: Riiiight.
<slangasek> persia: don't believe everything you read on Manoj's website...
<minghua> I think I'll delete my key from laptop, keep the copy on my desktop at home, and go back to using my USB disk with my laptop.
<minghua> It will be a bit annoying to have to keep the USB disk with you, though.
<persia> More generally, it's good practice to restrict keys to location-specific devices, perhaps with some encryption.
<minghua> persia, slangasek: Thanks for the suggestions.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: ping
<persia> slangasek: heh.  I do like the keysigning protocol though.
<minghua> persia: Location-specific devices?  Like what?
<persia> minghua: "my desktop at home"
<persia> minghua: More basically, my recommendations and your published plan differ by the carrying of the USB key with the secret key.
<minghua> persia: So I should always connect to the desktop at home and sign stuff there?
<minghua> That's probably too much trouble for me.
<persia> minghua: Um.  remote-network-accessible secret keys are a whole other level of dangerous.  Perhaps a known safe master key, which signs a minor key, with which you sign routine things.
<minghua> Actually, I think the first story that makes me thinking about the security of my key is from slangasek. :-)
<persia> minghua: On the other hand, the web of trust has been hacked a couple times, so there's a strong possiblity you aren't you anyway.
<minghua> persia: Even IP-restricted, SSH-key login only remote accessible machines?
<persia> minghua: The possibility of an exploit to get into that machine is higher than the possibility of an exploit to get into a powered-down firewall'd device, but like I said before, it's about the level of protection you want for identity.
<minghua> persia: Err... What is the difference between a powered-down firewall'd device and a powered-down device with no firewall?
<persia> minghua: Wake-on-LAN
<minghua> Okay.
<minghua> My home desktop won't be on 24/7 anyway.  I think I'll stick with the "carry a USB disk with the whole key" plan.
<minghua> Not perfect, but better than I currently have, I suppose.
<RAOF> How about 'gpg keys on LVM-on-crypto laptop'
<RAOF> ?
<persia> RAOF: better than keys-on-laptop, but as slangasek said, a laptop is a greater target than a USB key.
<minghua> Is the danger really that greater for un-encrypted filesystem, even if I have a strong passphrase?
<minghua> If the laptop is stolen, I'm going to revoke the key regardless, I think.
<persia> minghua: Sure.  The attacker only has to hack ~128 bits of passkey rather than 1024 (or whatever) bits of secret key.
<persia> (plus most passphrases are within a 50-80 bit set due to the preference for printable characters, etc.)
<zul_> morning party people
<minghua> persia: And that's assuming they really want my identity instead of just my laptop, and they do it before I revoke my key, right?
<RAOF> People tend not to choose (or remember) highly entropic passphrases, yes.
<persia> minghua: Sure.  80 bits takes about 16 hours on household gaming hardware.  Where's your revocation certificate (don't tell me).
<persia> (plus, they probably want your laptop anyway...)
<minghua> Yeah, so I'll pass that as "not a greater danger".
<minghua> Some other people's identity, maybe; but not mine.
<minghua> (Hmm, I hope that quote don't come back and bite me when I apply for MOTU membership extension...)
<persia> minghua: Are you in the strong set?  If so, the compromise of your identity could compromise others...  (not that this is especially likely either)
<minghua> persia: I think not.  My key is only signed by one person.  A DD, though.
<nenolod> minghua :D
<nenolod> minghua, i'll sign your key if you come to my house :(
<minghua> nenolod: Thanks, but I think no.  Unless you live in Houston.
<minghua> More signature means more responsibility, after all.
<minghua> persia: I think not.  My key is only signed by one person.  A DD, though.  <-- (did you get this line?)
<persia> minghua: I didn't.  I believe you need to have 1) received two signatures, 2) made two signatures, and 3) have two independent paths to all points in the strong set (although these not need be bidirectional paths)
<persia> s/not need/need not/
<minghua> That sounds a quite strong criterion.
<nenolod> minghua, well. we're on the same continent at least :))
<minghua> persia: Thanks for all this talk.
<minghua> (Although I really don't think I have the poorest key maintenance among MOTUs...)
 * persia is sure that's true
<nenolod> i doubt i would have time to be a MOTU anyway. i do have time to bitch at MOTUs when they do horribly stupid things in debian/rules though :P
 * warp10 is away: AFK
 * pwnguin ducks
<minghua> nenolod: Care to give an example of the stupid things?
<imbrandon> heh
 * minghua hopes he didn't do too many.
<persia> nenolod: There's no rush.  Any contributions are welcome.  If you get your keys up, and join the contributor teams, we can probably roll out your fixes faster (regardless of any future MOTU plans)
<nenolod> i saw one use of local system data in a debian/rules
<nenolod> but it got rejected from debian archive
<nenolod> (and rightfully so)
<persia> nenolod: Not accidentally,and not from a build-dependency?
<nenolod> persia, intentionally yes
<nenolod> persia, afaik it was dependant on environment somehow
<nenolod> i forget what package it was, it was few years ago
<RAOF> !away | warp10
<ubotu> warp10: You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines
<RAOF> Bah, wrong redirect, sorry.
<pwnguin> heh
<nenolod> persia, recently someone tried to package code of mine passing it off as GPL3 when the license was BSD-like
<nenolod> (luckfully, it got rejected from both ubuntu review and debian reviews)
<nenolod> (not that GPL is bad, but this particular code was not GPL, and it should have said so in debian/copyright)
 * minghua really hopes those packagers nenolod mentioned are not really MOTUs but only hopefuls.
<nenolod> i'd like to see ubuntu take a different direction in packaging a few things than debian does
<persia> minghua: Life is balanced.  That's why we review each other's work, and then receive more detailed review from the archive admins.
<minghua> persia: Yes, on package reviewing, I like Ubuntu's system better.
 * persia doesn't see much difference other than REVU
<nenolod> the way audacious is packaged in debian is crap
<nenolod> and the packager refuses to work with upstream in any way to ensure it is packaged in a way that is useful
<persia> Actually, is there any review except NEW packaging for DDs uploading new packages?
<minghua> persia: And I am not condemning careless packagers, it's just about my faith on Debian/Ubuntu's quality.
<minghua> persia: AFAIK no.
<pwnguin> well, ubuntu basically lives with debian
<persia> pwnguin: Not really.  We junk a lot, and change a lot more.  Each release is a greater variance as we have time/effort to do things.
<minghua> persia: When I say "Ubuntu's system", that includes REVU.
<persia> minghua: Right.  mentors just seems difficult to use somehow
<pwnguin> persia: when you junk something, does it stay junked?
<persia> pwnguin: e.g. freecraft
<nenolod> i'd say the 100% ubuntu packages are packaged more sanely than those imported from debian
<minghua> persia: Another difference is Ubuntu's package usually pass though more pairs of eyes.
<persia> nenolod: We (try to) require 0 lintian or linda warnings (let alone errors), but there's still stuff that isn't quite sane.
<minghua> persia: So obvious problem are more likely to be caught.
<nenolod> persia, i must wonder if i redid the packaging of audacious in a sane way, if it would make it into ubuntu
<nenolod> persia, the way it is packaged now is non-obvious
<persia> minghua: To some degree, although it's only 1 extra pair of eyes (MOTU packager + MOTU reviewer + archive admin) and the MOTU reviewer is optional from the last published meetings of MOTU Council (although still good practice).
<minghua> nenolod: Does audacious packaging in Ubuntu satisfy upstream (I assume that includes you)?
<nenolod> minghua, it does not presently because it is based on the debian packaging, which puts most features that users want in the -extra package
<pwnguin> uh oh
<pwnguin> those features aren't mp3 support are they?
<nenolod> no. stuff like submitting to last.fm
<persia> nenolod: It's certainly possible.  Before engaging in such an effort, I'd get in touch with some of the people who have touched the package, just to make sure your efforts would be in line with their ideas.
<nenolod> visualisations
<minghua> nenolod: I see.  I think audacious has enough user interests, so if you can point out the problems in packaging, I believe there will be MOTUs willing to work with you and fix it.
<nenolod> persia, I am in constant contact with le_vert, and he does not think last.fm is useful
<nenolod> and apparently, shoutcast support wasn't useful either
<nenolod> :D
<imbrandon> nenolod: the ubuntu people that touched it
<nenolod> imbrandon, ah. that's vasillis and Adri2000
<persia> nenolod: If the issue is -extras, there's at least some interest in Ubuntu in keeping it out, as a minimal audacious in main is a goal for several people.
<nenolod> persia, yes. my plan is to split each plugin into it's own package, like xmms is done
<nenolod> persia, that way users can install exactly what components they want
<imbrandon> and gstreamer and countless others
<pwnguin> compiz is packaged the same way
<persia> nenolod: That's a lot of new packages, but definitely interesting (especially if the new packages could be combined with existing xmms / bmp / etc. plugins at a source level).
<pwnguin> fusion, -extras, -extras-you'reinsane
<nenolod> persia, xmms and bmp are dead and should be dropped
<pwnguin> heh
<imbrandon> hahaha you'll die if you try to get xmms out of ubuntu
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> thats a dead horse waiting to be beaten again
<persia> nenolod: For something of that scale, I'd suggest drafting a spec of the work to be done.  This would get some feedback on the idea from a wider audience, and also likely get more hands to help.
<nenolod> :P
<pwnguin> i know at least one guy who wishes to be kept
<pwnguin> xmms
<nenolod> well, audacious isn't actually an xmms replacement
<nenolod> but audacious 1.4 is an entirely different beast and is not source compatible with xmms in any way
<minghua> persia: I honestly thinking mentioning specs at this stage of discussion is rather discouraging...
<persia> Regarding dropping xmms and bmp: it's been discussed, but it's not as easy as one might think.  We just recently finally got it out of main, but will probably be shipping for another year or so.  Merging "plugins", and disabling xmms support as "unsupportable" and "bug ridden" might be a way to reduce the pain of a later shift.
<imbrandon> minghua: nah specs can be carried over to the next cycle easy
<persia> minghua: Why?
<nenolod> persia, mostly the external thirdparty components
<nenolod> persia, are already packaged seperately
<nenolod> it's just audacious-plugins which is a mess
<persia> Ah.  If the source compatibility is completely broken, forget the idea of merged plugins.
<minghua> persia, imbrandon: My humble opinion is that, specs are really very Ubuntu-specific and internal stuff, and should be a concern of the MOTU, instead of the upstream developer.
<nenolod> well, being a motu might be interesting to me in the future ;)
<dholbach> more! MOTUs! :)
<nenolod> also
<geser> Hi dholbach
<nenolod> the way audacious has been packaged in debian has broken the rules several times over
<dholbach> hey geser
<nenolod> and i have had to tell le_vert how to fix it
<nenolod> it's a little scary
<persia> minghua: To a certain degree, I can agree that a finalised spec is of interest to Ubuntu Developers, but I don't see why anyone (e.g. nenolod) who has an idea and wants to contribute can't draft something to encourage support.
<nenolod> yes, a spec on fixing packaging of audacious-plugins is a good idea
<minghua> persia, imbrandon: If I were an upstream developer and was discussing packaging my software, and spec is mentioned, I most likely don't understand exactly what is needed (hell, I'm an MOTU and I don't), and will think "that's quite some bureaucracy, I think I won't bother".
<nenolod> maybe if people see that the idea is supported, maybe, just maybe, le_vert would fix it in debian
<persia> dholbach: Do you really want to do a Q&A session at 12:00 UTC on the 19th?  Isn't that also the MOTU Meeting, followed by the Mentoring meeting?
<nenolod> (but i doubt it.)
<persia> minghua: Ah.  makes sense.
<nenolod> what i find scary is the people who build debs of audacious snapshots using checkinstall
<nenolod> :(
<nenolod> and then they bother us upstream about it
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> persia: I know you are engaged in many discussions on IRC, so I would suggest you say "write things on the wiki" in the future.
<dholbach> persia: damnit, I meant 14:00 UTC
<persia> nenolod: Just in case minghua is correct, and my suggestion to draft a spec frightens you, I'm just suggesting the creation of a wiki page describing the effort, and what needs to be done.  Given the smaller scope (considering source incompatibility), perhaps it doesn't matter.
<dholbach> persia: thanks, sending out mails
<nenolod> persia, i have written specs before (although not for ubuntu)
<nenolod> at first when ubuntu came out, i had doubts that many people would use it too
<nenolod> but even now I use it
<nenolod> :)
<slangasek> nenolod: what exactly is the problem with audacious-plugins packaging in Debian then?
<nenolod> slangasek, most common usecases for audacious besides MP3 playback are in audacious-plugins-extra
<minghua> nenolod: See?  I said people would be interested.  Better create a wiki page and start writing. :-)
<slangasek> nenolod: which common use cases are you referring to?
<nenolod> i'll just write a markdown page on my homedirectory
<nenolod> give me a sec
<persia> nenolod: Thanks.
<pwnguin> i wonder what popcon says about that
<proppy> gutsy rc out ?
<proppy> http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/7.10/
<persia> proppy: That doesn't look like a candidate to me
<proppy> s/rc//
<slangasek> nenolod: so we'll get a link to this page of yours when you've got it written?
<nenolod> yes.
<coNP[uni]> Hey MOTUs
 * persia wishes that the comment about MOTU joining process had been omitted from the recent email
<dholbach> persia: which mail? which comment?
<persia> dholbach: My mail to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c.  There's lots of comments on the joining process, but no feedback on scaling for more Ubuntu-origin.  I should have drafted it differently, or skipped the last bit.
<dholbach> persia: what do you mean by that? getting more packages into ubuntu?
<proppy> 09:51:13 (9.94 MB/s) - `ubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.iso' saved [729608192/729608192] miam
<persia> dholbach: Rather:  Are we prepared to handle lots more package in Ubuntu?  If we are, how should we organise the effort?  Is this a MOTU function?
<dholbach> in the long run we need lots of teams who handle certain groups of packages
<persia> dholbach: That's one solution.  My fear there is that we might well end up with lots between the cracks.  It also only encourages more new packages within a team.
<minghua> persia: I suspect even if you drafted it differently, that part is still going to be largely ignored.
<Schnitz> proppy: nice connection ;-)
<dholbach> hey Schnitz
<Schnitz> hi daniel
<persia> minghua: You're probably right.  Alas.  Unintentional evil and all that.
<minghua> flamewars will happen, no matter you ignited it or not. :-)
<minghua> (not that I'm saying the getdeb thread is a flamewar, of course)
<persia> minghua: Sometimes.  My matches tend to fall on wet ground (and I don't think the getdeb thread is a flamewar)
<dholbach> me neither, I'm really happy with how JoÃ£o is still trying to find a way to make collaboration happening
<pwnguin> why exactly is ubuntu in the position of trying to host packages outside of debian
<pwnguin> ?
<Schnitz> what does it mean when a bug is assigned to MOTU? that the motu team is working/taking care ?
<minghua> I am pessimistic about it.  Though I've always been a pessimist.
<persia> I think there is huge scope for collaboration, but I think someone Ubuntu-side (MOTU or not) needs to commit to wider universe and more frequent upstream updates as part of making that work, and I'm not sure the team to do that is well identified.
<minghua> pwnguin: Users want to use them on Ubuntu, what's the alternative?
<pwnguin> filing ITPs?
<persia> Schnitz: It usually means someone thought that MOTU should fix it.  It doesn't usually mean that someone is working on it.  It shows up on the team task list, but that doesn't always drive member tasklists.
<minghua> pwnguin: What if no sponsor is available?
<Schnitz> persia: okay i see
<minghua> pwnguin: And what if the packager doesn't use Debian?
<persia> pwnguin: There are a number of Ubuntu-origin ITPs, including pointers to Ubuntu packages.  There perhaps isn't the focus to get them in Debian-side (perhaps because the packager doesn't use Debian / hasn't tested on Debian)
<pwnguin> im just trying to look at this from the perspective of a debian developer who's been told that ubuntu needs debian
<minghua> I don't think it's unrealistic to try getting into Ubuntu first.  As long as the ultimate goal is getting it into Debian as well.
<minghua> pwnguin: I've seen too many RFS got unanswered for months.  I do agree collaboration with Debian is important, of course.
<pwnguin> request for sync?
<pwnguin> sponsor
<minghua> yes, request for sponsoring.
<persia> pwnguin: Without Debian, Ubuntu wouldn't be.  Ubuntu isn't staffed to handle 15,000 source packages: only about 1500-2000 really get touched.  WIth more universe, the number of Ubuntu-maintained packages may grow, but that doesn't necessarily indicate interest in the remaining 12,000 packages not maintained by Ubuntu.
<Schnitz> dholbach: please don't take a look at my other packages before i've sent you an email again, i think i have at least the maintainer mistake in the other ones.
<pwnguin> aww crap
<dholbach> Schnitz: and the version number
<dholbach> Schnitz: that's why I only commented on one of them :)
<pwnguin> i forgot to set the package question answering to default
<Schnitz> dholbach: ok great!
<pwnguin> priority=high on 1000 packages is not fun
<nenolod> http://carpathia.dereferenced.org/~nenolod/audacious/debian-pkg-issues
<nenolod> slangasek, persia, minghua, etc
<nenolod> ^
<Schnitz> dholbach: so i should use Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> as maintainer, or did i get the wiki article wrong?
<dholbach> Schnitz: yes
<dholbach> Schnitz: you can preserve your name in the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<pwnguin> since there appears to be some smart audio peoples at the moment
<pwnguin> gstreamer suppport for s3m?
<persia> nenolod: The proposal makes some sense.  We'd probably want to align metapackages in such a way that users could satisfy sensible (limited) defaults with main+restricted, do a fair bit with main+restricted+universe, and do everything with main+restricted+universe+multiverse, perhaps meaning a requirement for "audacious-plugins", "audacious-plugins-extra", and "audacious-plugins-nonfree" or something similar.
<nenolod> persia, all plugins are free
<slangasek> nenolod: separate binary package for *each* plugin? oh dear God no
<nenolod> persia, we have even managed to get upstream codec people to relicense their reference code under LGPL so that it can be used freely
<persia> nenolod: Would none of the plugin packages wish to depend on non-free libraries in multiverse?
<nenolod> slangasek, gstreamer does it
<minghua> nenolod: Clear notes.  Though I'm not sure about the gstreamer plugin structure statement -- doesn't it use -base, -good, -bad, and -ugly?
<slangasek> no, gstreamer does not
<nenolod> xmms does!
<nenolod> ;p
<persia> nenolod: I thought the point was to slowly make xmms more obviously redundant :)
<nenolod> persia, no, the point is to clean up the packaging of audacious to make it more useful for the current community which uses it
 * nenolod has no interest in replacing XMMS
<persia> nenolod: Ah.
<minghua> nenolod: I think persia means partly "patent-encumbered" when he says "non-free".
<pwnguin> uh, also cdbs?
<nenolod> pwnguin, common debian build system
<pwnguin> i know it has fans
<pwnguin> but it also has enemies
<Ash-Fox> I'm glad I live in a country where there are less patents that effects software.
 * persia only means universe
<persia> vs. multiverse
<nenolod> well
 * persia must change physical locations - will read logs later
<minghua> nenolod: Is it possible for audacious upstream to divide the plugins into "base", "commonly used", and "uncommon" groups?
<nenolod> right now, debian and ubuntu ship libsidplay which contains a copy of C64 kernal
<nenolod> minghua, we are considering making such a recommendation with 1.4.
<minghua> nenolod: IMHO that's a saner packaging approach than "one package per plugin".
<nenolod> well
<nenolod> i need to think more about that
<pwnguin> i dont see the massive problem with one package versus one large package
<nenolod> well, some people want to mutilate my work for the sake of fitting it on a livecd and stuff
<nenolod> ;)
<minghua> pwnguin: I can't parse that.
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> one per package
<pwnguin> i dont see the massive problem with one per package versus one large package
<nenolod> yeah, i agree with pwnguin
<nenolod> this is how many other distros do it
<nenolod> it works pretty well
<pwnguin> i dont think you agree with me
<pwnguin> because if theres no difference, you have nothing to complain about
<minghua> Maybe CD space, maybe main support, I don't know either, but I can imagine some.
<nenolod> pwnguin, it's two packages at the moment
<slangasek> pwnguin: as a user of audacious-plugins, I don't want to have to hunt down plugins one by one; which means I want a metapackage; which means that if this is the common case, there's not much benefit to having the individual packages
<nenolod> pwnguin, with non-obvious assignments
<nenolod> slangasek, then a better way would be to just kill off audacious-plugins-extra
<slangasek> so fix the non-obvious assignments, there's no need to split it into bitty pieces
<slangasek> nenolod: why?
<pwnguin> slangasek: i dont think anyone was advocating the removal of metapackages
<nenolod> because upstream is finding all of the people who join #audacious and go
<nenolod> "LOL HY WHY CANT I USE LAST.FM" to be annoying
<slangasek> pwnguin: er?
<nenolod> and we might put a contract out on le_vert
<nenolod> you never know
<nenolod> ;p
<pwnguin> just start mailing irc logs to the bts
<nenolod> pwnguin, great idea
<nenolod> :D
<minghua> slangasek: I think even if it goes the one package per plugin way, there will still be a audacious-plugins meta package.
<nenolod> yeah
<nenolod> the reason why i propose splitting them up and using a metapackage is because then people who don't want all of the plugins presently in -extra can simply go
<nenolod> apt-get install audacious-plugin-scrobbler
<nenolod> or whatever
<slangasek> nenolod: if you did that I might be honor-bound to take his place, and I'm somewhat resilient ;)
<pwnguin> how big is -extras in total
<pwnguin> ?
<nenolod> pwnguin, huge
<nenolod> pwnguin, it has like 20 plugins in it
<pwnguin> how huge?
<pwnguin> in megabytes
<nenolod> several MB, but that's not the point
<minghua> slangasek: one package per plugin actually sounds not a bad idea to me, if there are no archive maintenance concerns.
<huats> doko and ajmitch : I'd like to see with you about zope / plone packaging....
<nenolod> audacious' behaviour can be different depending on what features you have available
<slangasek> minghua: in which case you would presumably want audacious to continue depending on audacious-plugins as it does today, making the split pointless
<nenolod> slangasek, no it doesn't
<nenolod> slangasek, because it's -extras that is the problem
<slangasek> minghua: there are archive maintenance concerns in Debian as well, but I didn't expect those to be persuasive to most people so didn't bring them up
<minghua> slangasek: what about only splitting -plugins-extras?
<slangasek> nenolod: oh. your post didn't distinguish between -plugins and -extras
<nenolod> minghua, might as well do it all
<nenolod> that way people who don't want to listen to WMA for instance can choose to uninstall it
<nenolod> ;p
<minghua> nenolod: Then slangasek's argument stands -- does audacious need to depend on all plugins included in -plugins meta-package?
<nenolod> minghua, it does not need to depend on any of them
<nenolod> minghua, of course, it won't play audio without codecs, etc
<nenolod> but it will start up as long as you have libstdio
<slangasek> so in the Debian sense of a dependency, it does need to depend on them
<minghua> nenolod: How large is -plugins now?
<nenolod> -plugins is smaller than -plugins-extra, carrying only the plugins on that list.
<slangasek> since "depends" means "needed to make it serve its purpose", not "needed to make it start and look at you blankly"
<RAOF> Why would you not want the ability to listen to WMA?
<minghua> nenolod: I feel you should revise your notes and concentrate on the problem of -extras.
<nenolod> 702kB
<nenolod> minghua, no. there are problems in -plugins too.
<minghua> nenolod: Maybe list the plugins one by one, and argue they should be split.
<nenolod> minghua, audacious-plugins carries an ALAC decoder.
<pwnguin> RAOF: maybe because it loads the plugin into memory if present?
<nenolod> minghua, the legality of that decoder is questionable. If included, it should be in multiverse.
<nenolod> minghua, moreover, the decoder has bugs
<RAOF> pwnguin: Fair call.
<pwnguin> RAOF: and you dont have any need for it? or because you think you can save liveCD space?
<pwnguin> i donno
<pwnguin> im still on the install 'em all side
 * RAOF is too.
<minghua> nenolod: What do you think of the idea of keeping a refined -plugins with essential and legal plugins, and split the rest?
<nenolod> minghua, i think it's still non-obvious
<nenolod> nenolod, if they see individual plugin names being installed, they will go "hey, i can apt-cache search for this"
<nenolod> er.
<nenolod> wtf
<nenolod> :D
<minghua> nenolod: I think listing individual plugin names in package description is a good compromise.
<minghua> I don't really like many small packages, either.
<minghua> But this is not really my call.
<minghua> (I don't even use audacious now, sorry.)
<nenolod> minghua, yes. i suspect you'd actually have to be an audacious user to understand why splitting is a good idea
<nenolod> that is more so than "i listen to MP3s on $10 speakers"
<slangasek> no, I use audacious and think it's nutty :)
<pwnguin> i got tired of xmms being a crappy way to handle playlists
<nenolod> well, audacious has a playlist manager
<nenolod> we finished it in 1.4
<pwnguin> because nobody dared think maybe winamp was stupid
<pwnguin> i kinda like rhythmbox
<nenolod> pwnguin, there's a lot fo stupid things in winamp :D
<minghua> nenolod: You should try to convince slangasek, he has a much larger chance to make things happen than I do. :-)
<pwnguin> but this is a derail
<nenolod> well
<nenolod> if it was a big deal to me
<slangasek> minghua: but I'm notoriously set in my ways...
<nenolod> i would just split each plugin into a seperate source package
<nenolod> thus forcing everyone to do as i say
<nenolod> or drop audacious
<nenolod> it's 50% chance of suicide
<nenolod> :P
<nenolod> but that's an inconvenience for everyone, and me too, so i doubt i would take the LAMIP approach
<minghua> nenolod: It's possible to include multiple upstream tarballs in one source package (just to let you know ;-)
<nenolod> (this is how they handle packaging plugins)
<nenolod> (seriously. see http://lamip.sourceforge.net )
<minghua> slangasek: Do you think having a core package with essential plugins, and split the rest to separate package a sane idea?
<nenolod> lamip is another approach in the same spirit of audacious
<nenolod> it doesn't get enough attention
<nenolod> (e.g. XMMS sucks, lets fix it)
<slangasek> minghua: that doesn't seem totally unreasonable, but I guess it depends how many individual plugins are going to be regarded as "non-essential"
<minghua> slangasek: Right.  That's what I'm trying to persuade nenolod, but he doesn't seem to be interested in that approach.
<minghua> (and since I don't use audacious, I'll shut up on this issue)
<nenolod> minghua, the reason why is because it will be bureaucracy that settles the problem (like all debian issues) and in the end the users will be screwed and everyone will bitch
<nenolod> or a different solution: everyone goes "hey. I listen to format X, include it in base"
<nenolod> so -extras gets like 3 plugins
<nenolod> or whatever
<minghua> Well, users always bitch, so I wouldn't really worry about that.
<nenolod> e.g.: what is "essential" to one person, is not "essential" to someone else
<nenolod> so, we would still have the same basic problem we have now, except,
<slangasek> nenolod: er, who's complaining about this behavior aside from you?  "users will be screwed" supposes a level of dissatisfaction with the current setup that I don't see evidence for
<nenolod> slangasek, we get in #audacious on irc.atheme.org, many people who ask "why can't i scrobble with the debian/ubuntu/mepis packages"
<slangasek> so if that's the primary complaint, that's easy enough to fix by moving the one plugin
<nenolod> or "why is format A supported but format B is not"
<slangasek> also, audacious-plugins-extra is a Recommends:, so in the future will be installed by default
<nenolod> and "why do I have to install a bunch of stuff I don't want to get the one thing I want"
<slangasek> "cause it's not Gentoo kthxbi"
<nenolod> slangasek, yes, well, that's one thing Gentoo gets right
<minghua> nenolod: I suggest you ask them to complain to Debian/Ubuntu on your channel.
<nenolod> infact, the only thing Gentoo gets right
<nenolod> minghua, we do.
<RAOF> nenolod: In return for being unsupportable-by-design :)
<nenolod> RAOF, yes.
<nenolod> RAOF, i love it when i get bug reports, ask for emerge --info, and see 4 lines of CFLAGS
<slangasek> nenolod: be honest, it's really the Mepis users complaining isn't it. :)
<nenolod> RAOF, :D
<nenolod> RAOF, then I tell them to get hit by a bus and close their bugs
<nenolod> RAOF, somebody keeps telling users to not bother our IRC channel with packaging issues. I want to give them some of our SOC money when we get it.
<nenolod> :D
<nenolod> but it's annoying
<nenolod> because then they ask stuff like "well, why don't you TELL downstream how to package it"
<nenolod> and they honestly seem to disagree on the "well, because we have lives" theory
<minghua> My take is still that "users will always find a way to bitch".  If you split packages, then they'll go to your channel and complain they need to hunt down packages one by one.
<nenolod> actually
<nenolod> as of late, i just tell them to use some other player if they don't like it
<nenolod> :P
<nenolod> e.g.
<nenolod> "have you tried Amarok lately? it seems tobe all the craze"
<nenolod> they must love me over at Amarok
<nenolod> for referring so many idiots to them
<nenolod> :D
<minghua> Sounds a good strategy to me, actually. ;-)
 * minghua wishes he can recommend competitive software to whiny users, too.
<nenolod> try it
<nenolod> <luser> ubuntu is garbage
<nenolod> <minghua> have you tried Gentoo lately?
<nenolod> <minghua> I understand you can use it to save money on heating bills.
<nenolod> :D
<minghua> nenolod: Nah.  Now I completely ignore them, I still think that's easier.
<nenolod> minghua, well usually they join in the middle of an argument between me and chainsaw or me and ccr or whatever ;)
<minghua> And I don't really have a good competitive software to recommend in the first place.
<nenolod> who said i recommended amarok because i thought it was good?
<nenolod> :P
<minghua> s/good/viable/
<nenolod> i mean i'm sure amarok is good for a jukebox, but it doesn't have a design oriented towards high quality audio reproduction - it just wraps other engines
<nenolod> (actually, people keep asking for solution to make amarok embed the audacious audio engine)
<minghua> nenolod: My suggestion is just that, if you as upstream recommend adding/removing some plugins in the -plugins package, it will meet less resistance.  If you recommend complete package structure overhaul and split all plugins, you need a more convincing case.
<pwnguin> i disagree. gentoo gets flamewars right in spectacular fashion
<minghua> nenolod: So maybe concentrate on what can be easily done is a good idea, like removing apple loseless plugin, adding last.fm plugin, etc.
<nenolod> well it's just observations
<pwnguin> nenolod: you could just publish a debian dir in the upstream archive ;)
<minghua> pwnguin: Are you disagreeing against me?
<nenolod> what should be done is better left to key people in MOTU and DDs
<nenolod> pwnguin, no! that's bad
<pwnguin> says who?
<nenolod> pwnguin, dondelelcaro has already cussed at me and anarcat about considering that in an indymedia package known as loreley
<minghua> says most Debian and Ubuntu developers.
<pwnguin> i like hess' take on the matter
<minghua> Having debian/ in upstream VCS is probably not a big deal, but putting it in tarballs causes endless of problems.
<slangasek> pwnguin: eeew, please don't encourage that
<nenolod> slangasek, i know better anyway ;)
<slangasek> nenolod: but he might encourage others too :(
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> im aware people dont like it
<slangasek> anyway, Joey's position is aesthetically pleasing, but not very practical to date
<pwnguin> but mostly it seems to be because it undermines their authority on packaging
<pwnguin> a maintainer is nearly an owner
<nenolod> no, the better approach is to send the debian patches you make to the debian maintainer and ask him to consider it
<minghua> I don't think so.  You can't remove bad files from upstream's debian/.
<nenolod> if he respects upstream, he will
<pwnguin> if they disagree, you cant do much because they own it
<pwnguin> you can try the ctte
<slangasek> what's your point?
<pwnguin> im not sure
<nenolod> ctte?
<slangasek> the maintainer is responsible for the package, they should have control over the outcome without having to do dances to work around upstream inclusion of debian
<slangasek> nenolod: I think he means Debian's technical committee
<pwnguin> ive seen the debian technical committee referred to as ctte for some reason
<nenolod> slangasek, ah. the ultimate in starting debian flameage
<minghua> pwnguin: If upstream is not happy with Debian's packaging, it's better to provide their own debian package than including debian/ in upstream tarball.
<pwnguin> which is apparently done by contacting the MOTU ;)
<minghua> pwnguin: I'm not sure I understand you.
<nenolod> pwnguin, no
<nenolod> pwnguin, it's done by redirecting bitching users to launchpad.
<slangasek> pwnguin: debian-ctte is the mailing list name; usually referred to as tech-ctte or TC though
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> wel, just TC would be a bit confusing i think
<pwnguin> "debian or ubuntu?"
<pwnguin> anyways, bedtime
<nenolod> http://carpathia.dereferenced.org/~nenolod/audacious/debian-pkg-issues
<nenolod> updated a little
<nenolod> slangasek, well, i'm sure you'll be happy to know that atheme.org has standardised on Debian and rPath machines
<nenolod> slangasek, before we were using gentoo - it was a nightmare to maintain :(
<slangasek> congratulations on finding your way :)
<nenolod> well, i knew the way beforehand
<nenolod> but the idea was that "gentoo would help us roll out our own patches more easily via overlays"
<nenolod> oh man, what a joke
<nenolod> it wound up being so painful that nothing ever got updated
<norsetto> ScottK: I subscribed motu-uvf to bug 64032 since its for gutsy-proposed. Let me know if there is a need for something to be added.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64032
<coNP[uni]> Hey norsetto
<norsetto> coNP[uni]: hey asisak, how is it going?
<coNP[uni]> Thanks. It is cool.
 * coNP[uni] begins to miss to run an unstable version
<coNP[uni]> Not that Gutsy would have been released ...
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
<minghua> persia: It's still good to keep the gutsy-updates info on topic, isn't it?
<persia> minghua: You think?  If we're released, I don't see how freeze status means anything.
<Fujitsu> persia: I believe the gutsy-updates stuff will apply until Hardy opens, so the normal process can be followed.
<Fujitsu> So should be in the topic, probably.
<persia> Right.  Nevermind.  Undoing...
<minghua> persia: not the freeze part, the "start working on Gutsy SRUs (gutsy-proposed is open for motu-uvf approved uploads" part.
<minghua> Poor persia.  And thanks BTW. :-)
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Gutsy Gibbon released - start working on Gutsy SRUs (gutsy-proposed is open for motu-uvf approved uploads). | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
<nxvl> !SRU
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<fernando> moin all
<dholbach> happy release day to y'all! :)
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey fujitsu
<norsetto> scottK: I assume that being assigned to bug 64032 means I have an ack to upload?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64032
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.
<ScottK> norsetto: Note my comments about version numbers though.
<norsetto> scottK: sorry, I must be blind, which comment?
<ScottK> norsetto: The one I forgot to post.
<ScottK> Just a sec.
 * norsetto thinks scottk should head to bed very soon ....
<ScottK> Please use ubuntu0.1 and save ubuntu1 for Hardy.
<ScottK> norsetto: Have slept and am back.
<ScottK> am also drinking coffee.
<norsetto> scottk: you kidding? you call 3 hours a sleep???
<ScottK> Today, yes, but not as a rule.
<norsetto> scottk: gee man, you should take care of you better, gotta talk with your wife one of these days
<ScottK> I could go back to bed and then be unable to get to sleep tonight again.  I just need to suck it up for one day to get back on a ~normal schedule.
<ScottK> norsetto: I'm making progress.  Back when I was in the Navy, this was pretty normal.  Now it's at least rare.
<norsetto> scottK: thx for the number btw, I totally forgot about it
<ScottK> norsetto: No trouble.  That's one of the main reasons I proposed motu-uvf ack all the uploads right now.
<Whoopie> To all of you: WELL DONE!
<norsetto> this yada thingie is snappy ....
<Fujitsu> Er, I hope that isn't the yada I'm thinking of.
<ScottK> norsetto: I was about to warn you, but to late I guess.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: I'm afraid it is .....
<norsetto> scottK: its ok, I just had to get used to it
 * Fujitsu sobs.
 * norsetto pats Fujitsu on the shoulders
 * ScottK sits back and waits for fireworks.
<norsetto> scottK: you mean its going to make the launchpad buildd very happy?
<ScottK> No, I mean some people really don't like yada.
<ScottK> Does anyone know if we can file hardy sync requests now (I know they can't be acted on)?
<norsetto> ScottK: all I know is that I marked a couple of bugs as sync yesterday already
<ScottK> OK.
<proppy> hi
<norsetto> howdy proppy
<proppy> nice !
<proppy> back to work place
<proppy> much nicer to work here than from home
<norsetto> proppy: at least you get paid ;-)
<proppy> nop :)
<norsetto> proppy: so, you managed to get to work eh? No lame excuse due to the strike ... like a real man
<proppy> we got fired a long time ago
<proppy> we only use the place for geeking together :)
<proppy> but we're not paid for that
<proppy> !
<proppy> but we still have free money each month for one year :)
<proppy> then we will have to figure out how to earn some
<proppy> I forget to ask what is your daily work norsetto? apart for being a ubuntu dev ?
<norsetto> proppy: daily work? whats that!?
<proppy> nice one :)
<proppy> norsetto: are you able to work on the viewvc thing with me ?
<proppy> (now)
<norsetto> proppy: is there still something to be done?
<proppy> viewvc-config patch
<norsetto> proppy: just a sec. I need to finish something first
<proppy> I thought I can do it myself, it just feel easier if you're close
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> proppy: as if I can help you ..... you are the python wizard
<proppy> cheering me up is a great help :)
<proppy> norsetto: just have written a testcase, do you agree on the behaviour http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/comment.py.txt ?
 * norsetto reads
<norsetto> proppy: what makes you think that I know Python?
<proppy> norsetto: my guess is that testing code is pretty langage independant
<norsetto> proppy: I think its \n not \n\ in self.assertEquals
<proppy> yep just figured that out
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> proppy: what happens if content = "toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n" ?
<Schnitz> hi
<proppy> norsetto: let me add the test
<proppy> norsetto: what is the expected behaviour ? toto\n#titi tutu\ntata\n" ?
<proppy> it passed
<proppy> check
<proppy> http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/comment.py.txt
<norsetto> proppy: ok
<proppy> what is the expected behaviour commentLine("toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n", "tutu") ?
<proppy> comment or not comment ?
<proppy> my guess is that we only need to be able to comment matching the begin of the line don't we ?
<proppy> updated
<proppy> do you think of any other test cases before I move this to viewvc-config ?
<proppy> (hint refresh the page)
<norsetto> proppy: (2) if you don't address to me I might not see it ......
<proppy> norsetto: sorry
<huats> norsetto: hey
<huats> norsetto: happy release day
<norsetto> this place starts to fill up with french .....
<norsetto> huats: hrd to you too .... do you know proppy?
<huats> norsetto: let's say that the place was already filled with french, but the french knows to be silent... sometimes
<huats> :-)
<huats> proppy: nice to know you :-)
<norsetto> :-O
<norsetto> proppy->huats; huats->proppy
<norsetto> proppy: be kind with this poor sould from the deep south .....
<proppy> hi huats
<proppy> where do you from ?
<huats> toulouse
<ScottK> proppy: norsetto says you know about Python?
<proppy> avec l'accent ?
<huats> exactly
<proppy> ScottK: I do
<ScottK> Up for a project?
<huats> proppy: where do you from ?
<proppy> ScottK: always
<proppy> huats: former "centre" now "paris"
<norsetto> scottK; he is also soon out of a job ... didn't you emntion an rfp some days ago?
<ScottK> I did.
<ScottK> Let me see if I can find the announcement (it's Python/Django).
<proppy> ScottK: just wait I've finished treating this viewvc bug, I try to open only one task by context
<ScottK> proppy: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg04179.html is it's your kind of thing
<ScottK> proppy: I think it would be interesting to have a script to compare what versions we have with getdeb.  The requestsync script in ubuntu-dev-tools (in Python) already knows how to find Ubuntu versions.  The getdeb data structure was mentioned on either motu ML or devel-discuss yesterday or the day before.
<proppy> ScottK: hope it's not a solo job (about the RFP)
<ScottK> proppy: They are looking for one contractor.  Up to you how many people you get together to do it.
<ScottK> Maybe you and ajmitch can collaborate (dunno).
<proppy> ScottK: I'm not a good contractor when I'm alone and remote
<proppy> ScottK: getdeb thing is the project you were talking about ?
<ScottK> OK.  Just mentioned it here because I thought there might be people who might be able to go after it.
<ScottK> proppy: Yes.
<norsetto> proppy: one more test case: commented = commentLine("toto\ntiti = tutu\ntata\n", "titi =") -> self.assertEquals("toto\n#titi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)
<proppy> norsetto: Ran 1 test in 0.004s
<proppy> it passed
<norsetto> proppy: ok, most probably we are missing some 100th of cases that will fail, but never mind .....
<proppy> ScottK: I don't know anything about getdeb (yet), is it related to dget ?
<proppy> norsetto: it's better than nothing :)
<proppy> on which ml was it discussed ?
<proppy> -devel ?
<ScottK> proppy: devel-discuss
<norsetto> proppy: Ran 1 test in 0.001s -> my computer is bigger than yours, so there
<proppy> :)
<proppy> norsetto: I'm running the test remote :)
<norsetto> proppy: no lame excuse will hold
<proppy> on a 1Ghz box, so it's not hard
<proppy> norsetto: but I bet you can't beat my bandwitch haha
<proppy> 09:51:13 (9.94 MB/s) - `ubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.iso' saved [729608192/729608192]
<proppy> don't forget kids the faster your download, the bigger your penis is :)
<_ruben> i could beat that if i'd knew a mirror that'd be bast enough :)
<proppy> -r
<_ruben> s/bast/fast
<proppy> ScottK: registred to the list
<proppy> ScottK: looking archive
<proppy> ScottK: this one https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-October/001974.html ?
<ScottK> proppy: Yes.
<ScottK> It was also discussed some on the motu ML (IIRC).  Somewhere in there they described how to get their packages/versions.
<mdomsch> ubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.iso
<mdomsch>    458358784  62%  109.36MB/s    0:00:02
<norsetto> proppy: it should fail if the word is not the first on the row (ie. " tete")
<proppy> ScottK: they supply the binary deb ? how do they figure dependency
<ScottK> proppy: Don't get me started.:
<proppy> norsetto: you mean that test ?
<proppy>  		commented = commentLine("toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n", "tutu") 		self.assertEquals("toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n", commented)
 * norsetto calms scottk down, shows him a nice cool glass of beer
<ScottK> norsetto: It's a little early for that here.
<Schnitz> don't tell me your bandwith stuff i'm updating using update-manager and the german mirrors are under heavy load....50kb/s ;-(
<norsetto> proppy: whatever
<proppy> Future Plans --------------- Move to APT based software distribution
<norsetto> scottk: its not here, but my fridge look as if the US navy passed over it
<ScottK> Heh.
<proppy> ScottK: so you want a script that compare getdeb and ubuntu version ?
<proppy> s/ubuntu/universe/
<proppy> ?
<ScottK> proppy: Yes.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: So we can deprecate GetDeb ASAP?
<ScottK> Ideally, what I'd like to be able to do is get a list of stuff that they are shipping, that we have in our development release (e.g. hardy) that we could backport to the current release.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: You catch on quick.
<ScottK> Their web front end is shiny and potentially useful.  I just want to get them out of the packaging business.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<proppy> clever :)
 * proppy hugs ScottK
<Fujitsu> It would be nice to have a repo open so we can backport new UVs post-UVF.
<ScottK> And then where they have newer stuff than in our development release, that'd be a work list for here.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: ubuntu-experimental.
<Fujitsu> Grumpy!
<ScottK> Someone (not me anytime soon) should also look at the new Automatix release and see what we can do for Hardy to put a few more nails in their coffin.
<norsetto> scottK: I was actually surprised they don't even distribute their source packages
<Fujitsu> norsetto: They do now, AFAIK.
<ScottK> norsetto: You must be easily suprised.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: I checked yesterday and couldn't find it
<Fujitsu> norsetto: Oh, for Automatix?
<norsetto> Fujitsu: yes
<Fujitsu> Ah, thought you were talking about GetDeb.
<zul> heh grumpy is an urban legend ;)
<geser> ScottK: does the patch in bug #129050 qualify for gutsy-proposed?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129050 in gtk2hs "ghc library packages all have bad dependencies" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129050
<ScottK> geser: I'd say so.  Let me mark in the bug.  Make sure you use a version number that won't conflict with the eventual Hardy upload.
<ScottK> geser: Done.
<proppy> ScottK: we can work on it, after the viewvc bug is fixed if you want :)
<ScottK> proppy: Sure.  No rush.
<ScottK> norsetto: For Automatix, there's nothing compiled, so you can disassemble their .deb to get their source.
<norsetto> scottk: with dpkg-deb you mean?
<ScottK> Personally I use ark, but whatever you like.
<proppy> (04:05:57 PM) norsetto: proppy: it should fail if the word is not the first on the row (ie. " tete")
<proppy> norsetto: do you confirm it's already adressed with the testing code ? or do I get you wrong ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, I tested it out of curiosity and it indeed failed
<proppy> by failed you mean the test failed -> it did comment the line , or the test success -> it didn't comment the line
<norsetto> proppy: neither : the test fails -> it didn't comment the line
<proppy> show me the test
<norsetto> proppy: commented = commentLine("toto\n titi = tutu\ntata\n", "titi =") -> self.assertEquals("toto\n# titi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)
<proppy> riiiight
<norsetto> proppy: is this a regex '^'+var ?
<proppy> yep
<proppy> \s*
<proppy> do the trick
<proppy> but you should change the test to commented = commentLine("toto\n titi = tutu\ntata\n", "titi =") -> self.assertEquals("toto\n#titi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)
<proppy> If you don't want to care about grouping syntax
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/comment.py.txt
<proppy> updated
<norsetto> proppy: ok
<proppy> it trash the space between # and keyword
<norsetto> proppy: yes, np
<proppy> let's patch viewvc-config  ?
<proppy> -t for comment ?
<proppy> norsetto: does this look a cool test to you http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt
<proppy> ?
<norsetto> proppy: why not with a clone of viewvc-config ?
<norsetto> proppy: sorry, viewvc.conf.dist ?
<proppy> norsetto: I wanted to try this one http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test.conf.txt
<proppy> norsetto: I just figure out of a new testcase that failed :)
<proppy> commented = commentLine("toto\ntititi = tutu\ntata\n", "titi") -> self.assertEquals("toto\ntititi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)
<norsetto> proppy: btw, -k (--key) is there already
<proppy> yep
<proppy> that's why I used it
<proppy> to know which key to comment
<proppy> norsetto: does it looks reseanable to comment only line with = in it ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, but, what if the user did define a template dit different from default? Shouldn't we check for it too?
<norsetto> proppy: s/dit/dir
<norsetto> proppy: but I guess we can do that in viewvc.config
<proppy> yep
<norsetto> ScottK: do I get a confirmation that rpmstrap is in gutsy-update, so that I can send the email, or should I send the email in any case?
<ScottK> norsetto: It'll get marked in the bug when it's published, so as long as you are getting the bugmail, you'll get notified.
<norsetto> scottk: excellent
<proppy> norsetto: I've updated the test and the implementation
<proppy> norsetto: updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt
<norsetto> proppy: isn't a cat << EOF | tee test.conf needed?
<proppy> norsetto: cat > test.conf <<EOF ?
<norsetto> proppy: that should do too
<proppy> norsetto: -t option implemented in viewvc-config
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/cecc6c3f0e4b
<proppy> bash -x test-viewvc-config.sh || echo FAILED && echo SUCCEED print SUCCEED
<norsetto> proppy: Have you checked what happens if -a is specified?
<proppy> if a is specified getting is one
<proppy> so it should sys.exist first
<proppy> but let's make a test for this
<proppy> norsetto: test updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt
<norsetto> proppy: for the second test case this is not true: grep "^#commentme" test.conf
<proppy> doutche ?
<proppy> why?
<norsetto> proppy: no, its ok, I didn't consider that you save to test.conf again
<proppy> I added a test case for -k
<proppy> to check that my code didn't alter the existing behaviour
<proppy> (I should have put that test in place prior the modification)
<norsetto> proppy: don't forget to patch this too: # Usage: viewvc-config -k keyname -v value -c config_file ;-)
<sabdfl> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls
<sabdfl> polls open in 8 hours for new MOTU Council candidates
<sabdfl> please vote!
<coNP[uni]> Hmm. Any MOTU can vote, right?
<pochu> coNP[uni]: yes.
<coNP[uni]> Hey pochu, happy release day! :)
<coNP[uni]> pochu: are you a MOTU, btw?
<pochu> coNP[uni]: nope :(
<pochu> *yet*
<proppy> norsetto: like this http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/563165dee4ac ?
<coNP[uni]> Just say if you need some cheering :)
<norsetto> proppy: yep
<norsetto> what is there to vote? two candidates for two posts!?
<proppy> ahah
<pochu> coNP[uni]: thanks, I'll let you know :) Maybe in the Hardy cycle...
<proppy> norsetto: patch updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/viewvc-config.patch.txt
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> hola bddebian
<bddebian> Heya norsetto
<MarcC> what happens to stuff in ubuntu-proposed? Does it eventually get put in the main repos?
<coNP[uni]> MarcC: it is eventually put to -updates
<coNP[uni]> Whether they belong to main / restricted / universe / multiverse is another thing.
<MarcC> cool, so that means, if a change to Kopete to make it not crash is pushed to proposed, it will eventually make it into updates?
<sabdfl> ajmitch: i got a note you expired from ubuntu-dev, was that planned or can i change it for you?
<proppy> norsetto: so next ?
<proppy> norsetto: update viewvc.config to call viewcv-config to comment template line and add template_dir option ?
<MarcC> what does SRU stand for?
<coNP[uni]> Stable Release Updates
<coNP[uni]> ? SRU
<coNP[uni]> !SRU
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<MarcC> thanks :)
<eolo999> ScottK: Hi Scott, long time has passed, how are you?
<ScottK> Hi there.
<ScottK> Not bad.  Welcome back.
<ScottK> I was wondering if we'd see you again.
<ScottK> norsetto_: eolo999 knows about Python too and is also Italian.
<eolo999> I'm so rusted i don't know if i can help in any way...
<bmm> <start commercial> I've posted metalinks for Gutsy gibbon at http://metamirrors.nl/node/139 <end commercial> Any comments are welcome.
 * proppy hugs eolo999
<eolo999> proppy: hi
<eolo999> norsetto_: ciao
<ScottK> norsetto_ may have some ideas for eolo999 to work on.
<eolo999> i will need some time to get in again (this time reading docs ;P)
<ScottK> No rush, glad to have you back.
<norsetto_> scottK; eh, nobody is perfect ;-)
<norsetto_> eolo999: ciao eolo
<eolo999> ScottK: what about you being a MOTU now?
<norsetto_> eolo999: hey, he is THE motu :-)
<eolo999> norsetto_: ciao
<eolo999> when i've known him he was not yet...
<eolo999> norsetto_: di dove sei?
<norsetto_> eolo999: he, good question: where I was born, where I lived most of my life, where I live now ?
<eolo999> all three.
<ScottK> eolo999: This is an English only channel.  #ubuntu-it for that if it's in Italian.
<eolo999> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> Sorry, but it's the common denominator.
<ScottK> No problem.
<eolo999> don't worry
<norsetto_> eolo999: ok ok   ....was born in Macerata (if you don't know where that is you will be banned for life), lived most of my life in The Netherlands, and I'm now in Rome, and you?
<eolo999> i've been in macerata...nice
<eolo999> i'm from florence but i live in Rome, too.
<norsetto_> eolo999: ok, so I know you did your army service in the Air Force ......
<eolo999> i diserted military service, i've been there for my job (i'm a light technician for theatre).
<eolo999> norsetto_: are you a MOTU?
<proppy> apt-cache search python dmx, No match too sad
<coNP[uni]> eolo999: sure, norsetto_ is a MOTU-youngster.
<eolo999> proppy: would be nice pydmx!
<ScottK> proppy: You can package a new python module in just an hour or two.
<norsetto_> eolo999: so they say, I still have to believe it myself though
<proppy> ScottK: I don't know if there is a codebase for that :)
<eolo999> i
<coNP[uni]> Actually we still need some time to notice the overall regression because of norsetto_
<proppy> ScottK: Thanks to distutils and cdbs :)
<norsetto_> coNP[uni]: they even tried to push the release date because of me .....
<proppy> ScottK: I should upload this one, one day .. http://svn.gna.org/svn/pokersource/trunk/qpoker/debian/
<ScottK> proppy: And don't forget Debian Python Modules/Apps Teams.
<coNP[uni]> What is the bug number of the bug "norsetto is a MOTU"?
<coNP[uni]> It is release-critical.
<ScottK> You can get your Python stuff uploaded to Debian pretty easily that way.
<norsetto_> coNP[uni]: oh, that was fix-released few weeks ago ....
<proppy> I use to know a DD who can sponsor upload, but since I'm a bit slow to update my package when nobody ask me too, I feel kinda unconfortable to ask him to upload other stuff
<proppy> ScottK: what is Debian Python Modules/Apps Teams. ?
<ScottK> proppy: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam (it needs to be updated for the addition of the apps team).
<eolo999> ScottK: bye, i'll be here soon...
<eolo999> norsetto: If you want to visit me i work every night in Teatro Belli in Trastevere...
<norsetto> eolo999: thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'm not really the night owl, but I might convince my better half one day (we live in Borghesiana ... so you know its not really downtown)
<eolo999> bye all
<norsetto> eolo999: ciao eolo ... see u again (I hope....)
<norsetto> seems like we lost proppy somewhere .....
<proppy> nop nop
<ScottK> proppy is still here AFAICT.
<proppy> still here
<proppy> do I miss something ?
<proppy> (05:44:10 PM) proppy: norsetto: so next ?
<proppy> (05:44:42 PM) proppy: norsetto: update viewvc.config to call viewcv-config to comment template line and add template_dir option ?
<proppy> I'm currently looking at viewvc.config
<proppy> trying to figure out where to add the brand new viewvc-config -t calls
<norsetto> proppy: ok, I thought you had seen that I was disconnected
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> sorry
<proppy> following some #gnash discussions in the meantime, and the fact that I barely understand what they are saying, lowered my attention #here :)
<norsetto> proppy: why not at the very end? Like a proper clean-up .....
<proppy> at the end of the file ? or at the end of the migration part ?
<norsetto> proppy: at the end of viewvc.config
<proppy> sorry forget again to add norsetto:
<proppy> :)
<norsetto>  ....exec alias \s norsetto .....
<proppy> norsetto: let me put it in a separate script before
<norsetto> proppy: actually, the best place is not in viewvc.config
<norsetto> proppy: I think we should call it from the postinst script
<proppy> ok :)
<proppy> let's write it first
<norsetto> proppy: and I think the best place would be just after the: mv /etc/viewcvs/viewcvs.conf /etc/viewvc/viewvc.conf; what do you think?
<proppy> yep I agree
<bluekuja> norsetto, mentors meeting is tomorrow at 13 UTC so 15 for us. I'll arrive a bit late, I hope it wont finish in 20 minutes :)
<norsetto> bluekuja: 20 min? We'll be lucky if its over before dinner ....
<proppy> norsetto: working on the script http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc.config.sh.txt
<norsetto> bluekuja: btw, I subscribed motu-torrent to a needs-packaging about apt-torrent, you might be interested
<hellboy195> great work guys. gutsy is out :D
<norsetto> is it? nobody ever tells me anything ....
<ivoks> when that happend?!
<norsetto> beside coNP[uni] of course, he tells me way too much .....
<ivoks> omg, again, i overslept release...
<hellboy195> uh some hours ago
<hellboy195> ^^
<coNP[uni]> Bye norsetto et al.
<coNP[uni]> See you tomorrow
<coNP[uni]> Happy Release Day to all :)
<norsetto> take care coNP[uni]
<hellboy195> jono: hoi. ubuntu --> great xD
<huats> norsetto: don't forget the talkative french... We surround you
 * norsetto starts sweating
<hellboy195> I know the question is stupid and old but "What about a extremy unstable, unsupported bleeding edge repo for gutsy?"  <-- I really don't want too use debian or anything other than ubuntu ^^
<jono> hellboy195:  :)
<huats> norsetto: remember how you called me once... Master of little things ?
<huats> well, they are everywhere :-)
<bluekuja> norsetto, perfect, I'll try to be there as soon as I can. Let me check my mail now then (just went home) :)
<norsetto> huats: little crawling things, makes a differnce
<ScottK> hellboy195: Wait until the hardy repos open and then ask for gutsy-backports.
<ScottK> !backports |  hellboy195
<ubotu> hellboy195: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<hellboy195> I know the backports but ok you do a great work but I like "bleeding edge like sid" more. just only with ubuntu ^^
<proppy> norsetto: warning
 * norsetto start swearing
<proppy> norsetto: viewvc-config seems not to works for inserting new value, just updating existing one
<proppy> norsetto: the SetValue regexp doesn't match anything if the var is not in the file contents
<ScottK> proppy and norsetto: It's sounding broken enough that you might want to consider contacting the upstream and work with them on it.
<norsetto> proppy: yes, but they are?
<proppy> let me add a test to this old test-view-vc-config.sh
<proppy> ScottK: dd seems to be the author of that
<ScottK> dd?
<proppy> norsetto: I'm talking about adding template_dir
<proppy> ScottK: debiandevelopers
<proppy> ScottK: since the script is in debian/
<ScottK> Ah.
<norsetto> proppy: but you don't need viewvc-configure for that!
<proppy> oh ok :)
<proppy> norsetto: how so ?
<proppy> norsetto: I still need to insert this line in the appropriate section
<norsetto> whats wrong with an echo >> ?
<proppy> norsetto: template_dir should be in [options] section
<proppy> norsetto: a few line of sed could do it
<proppy> norsetto: as well as commenting the template options line
<norsetto> ScottK: yes, thats the idea, we open a new bug in the debian bts with the patch and ask his advice
<ScottK> OK.
<proppy> norsetto: I though you wanted to use viewvc-config for that ?
<norsetto> proppy: we can use whatever its easier to use
<proppy> norsetto: we should figure where is the [options] section, and insert a line at the end of it
<norsetto> proppy: if you feel better using sed sure, go for it, whatever you feel will do the job with the minimum effort
<proppy> norsetto: should be easy with a few regexp
<proppy> norsetto: I remembered sed addressing is fun :)
<norsetto> proppy: are you sure you are not a woman?
<proppy> norsetto: but I fill kinda guilty not to add functionnality to the existing viewvc-config
<proppy> norsetto: let me check
 * norsetto hopes Hobbsee is not around .......
<proppy> norsetto: adding NewValue to viewvc-config sound fine to me
 * norsetto wears his best armour suit, just in case
<proppy> Hobbsee is a sed addict or a woman ? or both ?
<norsetto> proppy: don't know if she is a sed addict, but sure has a pointy stick and she is not afraid of using it
<proppy> sed is kinda pointy
<proppy> norsetto: updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt
<proppy> norsetto: now failing with python viewvc-config -k "newoption" -v "value" -c test.conf ; grep "^newoption = value" test.conf
<norsetto> proppy: thwre is no newoption in there? Can you add a key with it!?
<proppy> not yet
<proppy> what I'm looking for is made that work by patching viewvc-config ?
<norsetto> oh $deity, I unleashed a monster .....
<proppy> ?
<proppy> maybe I should use a different option of that ?
<proppy> -d like add ?á¡)
<hellboy195> jono: how are you doing with packaging now after the first try with pitivi? cause I'm also starting and I think it a little bit hard but makes me satisfied :)
<jono> hellboy195: I havent had time to do any more, but it was fun
<jono> hellboy195: if you are new, be sure to share your experiences so we know how to make it easier :)
<hellboy195> jono: oh well your feedback was good. also for me and my wishes ;)
<ScottK> hellboy195: And write documentation.  Once you are experienced it's impossible to write docs that work for new people.  We NEED people who are new to it to write them.
<jono> ScottK: wise words :)
<hellboy195> ^^
<hellboy195> ScottK: sure but I think I have to try 2-3 programms packaging first only to know the basics
<ScottK> hellboy195: Start writing now though.  You may not publish until you've done a few, but start writing now.
<hellboy195> ScottK: OK :) but can you tell me in what direction this sould go?
<hellboy195> *should
<ScottK> hellboy195: What you want to end up with is the document that you wish had existed when you started.
<ScottK> It's not to early to be writing sync requests for Hardy (requestsync doesn't quite work yet) for packages that don't need to have an Ubuntu diff anymore.  I got mine in (9), so you all can get in line now.
<hellboy195> ScottK: K, will do it :)
<ScottK> Great.
<hellboy195> ScottK: may I ask you a "flamewar" question?  why isn't debian not able to package gnome correctly like in ubuntu?
<ScottK> hellboy195: I use Kubuntu, so my answer is I don't know and I don't care.
<hellboy195> ScottK: well ok
<ScottK> I suspect the answer has to do with different objectives for the distros, but really don't know.
<hellboy195> ScottK: thx anyway :)
<lucas> has anyone tried to install gusty inside qemu?
<lucas> I can't seem to start the installer
<proppy> norsetto: got it working
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/11e1f5b7d428
<proppy> norsetto: it's easier to add the option at the beginning of the section
<norsetto> proppy: you are still at work?
<norsetto> proppy: I gotta go, wifey is calling for dinner
<proppy> norsetto_limbo: ok me tto :)
<proppy> norsetto_limbo: see you later then
<proppy> norsetto_limbo: all the regexp code is useless look at this :) http://docs.python.org/lib/RawConfigParser-objects.html
<proppy> norsetto_limbo: see you soon have to go
<proppy> see you :)
 * proppy hugs ScottK
<hellboy195> jono: wb
<mehdi2> hi motu, any body knows if backporting team needs contribution? I've started packaging recently and have backported some packages for our local repo like Pidgin, Stardict & ...
<ScottK> !backports | mehdi2
<ubotu> mehdi2: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<ScottK> mehdi2: For backports we only take packages from the Ubuntu development repository (with some modification if needed).
<ScottK> mehdi2: What we really need is people to test packages that have been requested already.
<mehdi2> ScottK: I've backported some from Debian
<ScottK> Here we get them into a development repository first and then backport them.  That step is not optional.
<mehdi2> ScottK: maybe I can start/help wih testing too.
<ScottK> great.  That's what we really need.  If you have questions, jdong is the best person to ask.
<ScottK> mehdi2: What Ubuntu version(s) do you use?
<mehdi2> ScottK: I just joined the mailing list to be informed about what the team is doing
<mehdi2> ScottK: feisty/gutsy
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> mehdi2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bugs - Anything marked New or Incomplete probably needs testing.
<hellboy195> cya :)
<ScottK> I just blew my streak.  I clicked on a bug in #ubuntu-bugs that I couldn't invalid.  I had to confirm it.
<ajmitch> that's not good
 * ScottK looks around.
 * ajmitch looks at the clock
<ScottK> Ah.
<tonyyarusso> hehe
<leonel> according  to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule    what's the next step for MOTU ?? wait for the toolchain ?
<ajmitch> yes, or just get stuff ready for upload anyway
<ScottK> leonel: We'll take Gutsy SRUs now and sync requests where needed (Ubuntu diff is safe to drop) can be filed.
<ScottK> If some mentor is looking for a merge for a hopeful to work on, gramps should be reasonably straightforward and I have no interest in continuing to be the person that touched it last.
<leonel> I hope postgresql 8.3  can make in hardy
<ScottK> Do you know when they plan to release it?
<leonel> before chrismas
<tonyyarusso> Well, feature freeze is Valentine's Day iirc
<jmg> :D
<jmg> http://www.wired.com/software/softwarereviews/news/2007/10/ubuntu_gutsy
<ScottK> keescook: From a security perspective, what do you think of a package making it's own user and adding that user to sudoers?  Is that OK?
<keescook> ScottK: making it's own user, sure.  that's common.  Adding the user to sudoers: yuck.  There had better be a really powerfully good reason.  :)
<ScottK> Since they give that user only limit sudo rights, I'm thinkin it's superior to running as root.
<jmg> surely suid would be better?
<ScottK> keescook: The package is secvpn.  Since it's a vpn package, I imagine it really does need to run as root.
<ScottK> jmg: I'd imagine so.
<ScottK> It's init scripts are hopelessly ancient and the more I dig, the less I like.
<keescook> ScottK: while I'm sure it needs rootly powers to do some things, I'd examine why and where.
 * ScottK feels suddenly in way over his head.
<ScottK> It does sound like a good audit ought to be done before it's put in working order.
 * ScottK feels less bad it doesn't work so well ATM.
<jmg> hey
<ajmitch> secvpn looked like an evil package
<jmg> at least its better than the iphone running everything as root :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm tempted to write it off as a good thing it crashes a lot.
<ajmitch> file a removal request
<ajmitch> we'll all be better off, i'm sure
<ScottK> ajmitch: I will
<ScottK> Dear pitti, please remove secvpn source and binary.  Reason: because it is evil.
<leonel> iphone ??  idon't
<nixternal> http://tinyurl.com/2gljnw  <-- Ubuntu Article - includes MOTU and some of us
 * nixternal pokes ajmitch 
<ajmitch> :P
 * ajmitch hides
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> thought you said no to him? funny I seen your name plastered in it :p
<nixternal> Mr. Mitchell said, "Ubuntu what? forget that! Debian FTW!"
<ajmitch> as he types from his sid desktop...
<nixternal> hehe
<ajmitch> which is what I'm using right now :)
<nixternal> ya, I need to fix my Debian box....it got hosed with some KDE 4'age
<ajmitch> jono: still awake? I'm surprised
 * ajmitch watches the upgrade bugs roll in
<Lamego> how do I set a file to be ignore from the the diff generation during debuild ?
<bddebian> Delete it? :)
<Lamego> not of it was changed, and not just created, that would break rebuilding
<ScottK> Move it and put it back when you are done?
<ajmitch> -i[regexp]
<ScottK> Edit the .diff.gz afterwards.
<ajmitch> what a lot of work, when dpkg-source has options you can use
<Lamego> that is not an option, I hate manual actions
 * ajmitch usually builds with -i.bzr, to exclude all the bzr info that would make the .diff.gz rather large
<Lamego> hum, let me try -i with debuild
<Lamego> or may I can override debsourceblah blah options on the debian/rules with some CDBS parameter
<ajmitch> not that I'm aware of
<Lamego> DEB_DH_INSTALLCHANGELOGS_ARGS
<Lamego> there is :D
<ajmitch> no, that's a debhelper command run in debian/rules
<ajmitch> quite separate from dpkg-source
<ajmitch> why do you need to have this file ignored?
<Lamego> well, that rule is the one called by CDBS for the package building, I am looking into the CDBS make files
<Lamego> because this file is changed during the building process, and I do not want that change on the building diff
<Lamego> ah, wait, changelogs
<Lamego> forget it, wrong reading
<nenolod> i forgot how slow the livecd can be :D
<kai^sds> hi, anyone in the mood to have a look at the first debdiff from a packaging newby? I have created this (http://pastebin.com/m775701b) debdiff which should fix #69455 - this is a regression of gutsy - a similar patch (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/5214902/oprofile_0.9.2-1ubuntu0.2%7Eproposed1.debdiff) has already been made by someone else for feisty. Did I make a mistake so that the debdiff contains absolute paths starting with /tmp/NQ2LJhqUFj
<ScottK> kai^sds: That's probably because you did it in a chroot.  That's no trouble, whoever has to apply the patch should be able to apply it with -p2, so no worries.
<geser> kai^sds: bash is essentail, you don't need to specify it at depends
<kai^sds> ok. I just did that because the feisty patch did
<ScottK> geser and soren: Congratulations on your MOTU council nominations.
<nenolod> hmm, the install from livecd has improved drastically in gutsy
<tonyyarusso> how so nenolod ?
<nenolod> seems much faster
<soren> ScottK: \o/
<soren> ScottK: Thanks, man.
<nenolod> (but maybe it took as long as last time I did an install from livecd, and it just didn't seem as long because i was listening to mp3s and cussing out an IRC troll)
<crimsun> heh, so my oprofile patch wasn't carried into gutsy? harumph.
<crimsun> kai^sds: bringing in either the dapper-updates or edgy-updates change will suffice
<kai^sds> crimsun: sorry, I don't know what you mean. the important change has been made for feisty...
<blueyed> kai^sds: you should install patchutils. It creates a -p1 patch in most cases then.
<crimsun> kai^sds: I made the original change for the dapper and edgy source packages.  It's simply, as you've noticed, a substitution of /bin/bash for /bin/sh.
<blueyed> except if its a native/debian package IIRC.
<kai^sds> it is a native debian package afaik
<crimsun> oprofile?  No, it's non-native.
<kai^sds> are you sure? i am new to this, but is it possible that that has changed in gutsy?
<crimsun> yes, I'm sure.  It carries a Debian package version in addition to an Ubuntu version suffix.
<kai^sds> my information comes from https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-mistakes.html#basic-ex_files which says:
<kai^sds> A native package is one that is specific to Ubuntu/Debian. It has debian/ directory containing the packaging information and any changes to the source included in the tarball (usually <packagename>_<version>.tar.gz). Non-native packages are more common. A non-native package splits the source package into a <packagename>_<version>.orig.tar.gz tarball that is identical ...
<kai^sds> and oprofile does not contain a .orig tarball
<crimsun> kai^sds: it was mistakenly uploaded as a native one.
<crimsun> yes, even core-dev make mistakes from time to time :-)
<kai^sds> ah, ok
<ajmitch> unpossible
<crimsun> hehe
<ajmitch> how are you, crimsun?
<crimsun> not bad, ajmitch, yourself?
<ajmitch> managing
<ajmitch> been busy with work?
<crimsun> yep, getting a breather for a bit.  Gonna hit up a loco release party/installfest tomorrow afternoon
<ajmitch> excellent
<crimsun> kai^sds: if you need any assistance, feel free to ping
<kai^sds> well, I have attached the debdiff to the bugreport and anything else is beyond of my control anyway isn't it? ;)
<blueyed> bug 69455
<crimsun> ([SRU] for oprofile, edgy-updates: bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events)
<blueyed> ubotu: ping?
<blueyed> Cheers altogether btw! :o)
<kai^sds> i am not ubotu but anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oprofile/+bug/69455
<nenolod> wow.
<blueyed> kai^sds: but the bug is stilled "fix released".
<blueyed> Is this a regression? Has the patch been dropped for gutsy?
<kai^sds> it is a regression and i can't change the status
<kai^sds> the patch is for gutsy, yes
<blueyed> I've nominated it for release on gutsy and hardy. But someone else has to approve it, so it can track it's own status.
<blueyed> You can remove old diffs/attachments, can't you?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-19
<crimsun> it doesn't make sense to nominate it for hardy yet ;-)
<kai^sds> blueyed: probably not. at least i can't see how
<crimsun> approved for gutsy.
<blueyed> It's the same as Gutsy, isn't it? Should it rather get re-opened and set to closed for feisty and before?
<blueyed> kai^sds: see the bug attachments sidebox and "edit" for your attachment.
<blueyed> kai^sds: but probably you must be member of the Ubuntu Bugsquad team for this.
<kai^sds> blueyed: thanks for the info. i have removed the older patch
<blueyed> k :)
<blueyed> Can you remove/edit other attachments as well?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 69455 in oprofile "[SRU] for oprofile, edgy-updates: bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69455
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ping? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<blueyed> kai^sds: why isn't the fix for feisty not in gutsy anymore?
<kai^sds> launchpad offers me the "Delete attachment" button for patches other than my own. i do not want to try it out now though
 * blueyed is happy that this has not been abused yet
<crimsun> blueyed: it was dropped quite some time ago
<kai^sds> blueyed: good question. i don't know.
<blueyed> crimsun: during gutsy development?
<crimsun> blueyed: correct, during a merge
<blueyed> Looks ok. Though it's "strange" to fix bashisms with using bash.. ;)
<crimsun> blueyed: that's because it's not a fix; it's a hackaround
<crimsun> for -proposed, the change must be minimal and easily understood
<crimsun> /bin/sh -> /bin/bash satisfies both requirements
<blueyed> Sure.
<crimsun> kai^sds: should be versioned 0.9.3-1ubuntu1.1, and the distribution should be gutsy-proposed
<kai^sds> so this line for example
<kai^sds> +oprofile (0.9.3-1ubuntu2) gutsy; urgency=low
<kai^sds> should be changed to
<kai^sds> +oprofile (0.9.3-1ubuntu1.1) gutsy-proposed; urgency=low
<kai^sds> ?
<crimsun> correct
<crimsun> (back in a bit.)
<kai^sds> ok. done
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nenolod> hi.
<bddebian> Hello nenolod
<blueyed> Cheers bddebian!
<bddebian> Hello Blue
<bddebian> Err blueyed
<bmk789> whats the best way to start contributing to ubuntu without having programming knowledge?
<rob> documentation is a good one
<bmk789> writing documentation for what?
<rob> bmk789, how to use Ubuntu, see #ubuntu-doc
<bddebian> Where has pkern disappeared to?
<tonyyarusso> So anyone tried installing with the encrypted partitions option yet?
<TheMuso> Bed most likely
<TheMuso> tonyyarusso: How does one find that option?
 * TheMuso is considering it for his trip to UDS.
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Yup.
<TheMuso> Where do you get the encrypted partitions option?
<RAOF> TheMuso: The alternate CD.
<TheMuso> Yeah I guessed, but do you have to use expert install?
<RAOF> No.
<TheMuso> oh
<TheMuso> I'll have to dig a bit deeper then.
<RAOF> When you (or, at least, when *I* did) get to the partitioning stage, you have the option "use as encrypted physical device" for any given partition.
<jml> does the encryption take place on suspend or hibernate?
<lifeless> what encryption
<RAOF> jml: hibernate won't work if you use a random key for swap.
<slangasek> jml: the encryption takes place on every write to disk
<RAOF> jml: However, if you do what I did and use the encrypted partiton as an LVM PV, and build swap, /, /home on that, then it just works.
 * TheMuso podners why he can't rsync an iso from his ISP mirror...
<StevenK> TheMuso: Because Internode don't love you
<tonyyarusso> TheMuso: it's on the alternate CD
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: any issues with it?
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: any performance hit noticable?
<pwnguin> RAOF: fix my fonts
<TheMuso> StevenK: heh.
<ajmitch> I thought it was more appropriate to blame telstra for all your woes?
<TheMuso> No, internode can do that for me. :p
<TheMuso> We pay them enough after all
<ajmitch> heh
<StevenK> Geez, git is very noisy
<ajmitch> bzr is love by comparison
<jmg_> ah, telstra.
<jmg_> i have a fairly funny email from them
<mdomsch> congrats to the MOTU team on the Gutsy release, and thanks for all your hard work!
<bddebian> Thanks mdomsch :-)
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: I haven't noticed one.  But my laptop is not an ideal candidate: slow HD, fast dual-core processor.
<RAOF> Or rather, my laptop is a good candidate for seeing no performance hit.
<bddebian> Sheesh is everyone asleep after release parties? :-)
<ajmitch> yes
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: gotcha
<bddebian> Who's gonna help my dumb arse fix gnome-breakout :'-(
<TheMuso> bddebian: Whats the problem with it
<bddebian> TheMuso: I changed the path to install to /usr/share/games as it should instead of /usr/share.  Now on startup it's looking for the level files in the wrong dir
<bddebian> It's like LEVELDIR is ignoring $(datadir)
<bddebian> Or I should say it's using the default instead of what I set on configure
<TheMuso> How did you tell it to use /usr/share/games?
<bddebian>  --datadir=\$${prefix}/usr/share/games
<TheMuso> bddebian: Is this a broken package in gutsy that you are trying to fix?
<bddebian> TheMuso: No, new upsteam for Debian for Hardy :-)
<TheMuso> And what is prefix set to?
<bddebian>  --prefix=/usr
<TheMuso> Well, it looks to me like datadir is being set to /usr/usr/share/games
<bddebian> Sorry  --datadir=\$${prefix}/share/games
<bddebian> That was a typo :)
<TheMuso> right thats better.
<TheMuso> Have you tried running the uild process by hand to see what happens?
<TheMuso> build
<bddebian> Yes
<TheMuso> ok.
<TheMuso> Could be autoconf breakage.
<TheMuso> somewhere.
<TheMuso> or automake
<bddebian> It looks like it's doing the right thing.  Maybe it's a code issue..  http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/gnome-breakout/build.log
 * TheMuso wonders whether the --locale config flag is correct..
<TheMuso> I see what you mean however.
<bddebian> I had to autoreconf to even get the --locale so I could put those files in /usr/share/locale and not /usr/share/games/locale
<TheMuso> right
<bddebian> then I had to munge po/Makefile.in.in
<TheMuso> oh joy
<TheMuso> Sounds like they don't use gnome-common for the autogen stuff then.
<TheMuso> even though the package is gnome-breakout
<jmg_> is there a backporting guide anywhere?
<bddebian> TheMuso: It was a gnome 1 app but seems to build/work fine on 2
<TheMuso> Oh.
 * TheMuso subscribes to hardy changes.
<jmg> heh
<jmg> is it open?
<TheMuso> Well, its frozen currently, but meh.
<TheMuso> THe list exists, and my guess is from now till next thursday, the toolchain will be sorted.
<TheMuso> As on the schedule draft at least, next thursday is when the toolchain nees to be done.
<ajmitch> good idea
 * ajmitch subscribes
 * TheMuso now needs to make extra space for his LVM partitions, so he can create a hardy sbuild chroot.
<bddebian> Hey, I thought you were helping me? :)
<ajmitch> sigh, people doing unnecessary & incorrect wiki changes
<TheMuso> I dunno where the problem is.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> someone changing 'buildds' on the UbuntuDevelopment page to 'builds'
<TheMuso> bddebian: Where does one get the package from, as in the upstream source?
<ajmitch> since they must have thought it was a typo
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Maybe its worth not abreviating it then.
<TheMuso> abreeviating
<ajmitch> no, it should be clarified
<bddebian> I think it's this in flags.c:  #define DEFAULT_LEVEL_FILES (LEVELDIR "/alcaron.gbl;" LEVELDIR "/mdutour.gbl;" L
<bddebian> EVELDIR "/mmack.gbl")
<bddebian> TheMuso: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/gnome-breakout/
<ScottK> Just find the evil doer and have them flogged as an example to the rest (about wrong wiki changes).
<TheMuso> bddebian: Ok I'll have a look.
<bddebian> TheMuso: Thanks man, this thing is killing me. afaict it should work
<bddebian> And the game works fine and I can select the levels from the preferences menu it's just the defaults levels at startup :-(
<TheMuso> yep
<TheMuso> bddebian: Ok it certainly seems that LEVELDIR sets properly during build as a macro. I'd say it is probably what you said re flags.c and the LEVEL_FILES definition.
<bddebian> Aye but the question is why :-(
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<TheMuso> Maybe strace it perhaps?
<bddebian> I don't know that I know strace :-(
<bddebian> I pretty much suck at debugging stuff
<TheMuso> hm ok
 * bddebian needs a brain
 * TheMuso rebuilds it with debugging symbols.
 * TheMuso wonders if Kano just gets ignored by devs now.
 * ScottK made the mistake of talking to him one.  I learned my lesson.
<TheMuso> bddebian: Do you get an error if it can't find the levels?
<bddebian> Just a pop-up warning
<TheMuso> hmm
<TheMuso> In a dialog box?
<bddebian> Aye
<TheMuso> Well, I'm going to rebuild again without symbols, but I don't get any warning.
<bddebian> Really
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<bddebian> Can you start a new game?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe I fixed it ;-P
<bddebian> I wonder if it's leaving a some type of configuration around
<TheMuso> Not from what I can see.
<bddebian> Weird, now it works on this install
<TheMuso> bddebian: heh what did you do? :p
<TheMuso> bddebian: Yep, all goo dhere.
<bddebian> The only thing I can figure is that maybe I was stupid and installed over a previous install or something
<TheMuso> right
<bddebian> Sorry to waste your time man :(
<TheMuso> No problem.
<LaserJock_> hmm, I don't suppose there's a way to fake an IP address?
<jmg_> ifconfig?
<LaserJock_> hmm
<LaserJock_> that's not gonna work :/
<LaserJock_> I'd like to change my public facing IP address when I'm behind a cable router
<LaserJock_> but well, it's just a desperation plea ;-)
<StevenK> LaserJock_: Fake how? Sure you can
<LaserJock_> well, here's the situation
 * StevenK pulls on his IP hat, listening
<LaserJock_> I have hosts.allow set on my machine at how to allow a certain range of IPs
<LaserJock_> now I'm at my grandpa's
<LaserJock_> and I can't ssh to my box cause I've got a different public IP
<LaserJock_> usually I could ssh into a uni machine and do it
<LaserJock_> but after the recent compromises it looks like they've blocked us from doing that
<LaserJock_> I think I'm probably just gonna do without
<StevenK> LaserJock_: Right, the simple answer is, yes you can fake an IP - but how do you plan to get traffic back? Your machine is responsible for routing back
<LaserJock_> hmm, right
<StevenK> At which point your machine is not going to know that you're doing naughty things to defeat hosts.allow
<LaserJock_> I need to get my grandpa's cable to get a new IP lease ;-)
<TheMuso> How would that help?
<ScottK> jdong: What's up with sharkattack?  Looks like it's dead from here.
<StevenK> That part is easier - reboot the modem, or drop DCHP
<jdong> ScottK: ugh, yeah, I need to walk over and investigate tomorrow...
<ScottK> OK.
<LaserJock_> maybe I should just take this as a sign that I should just have fun on my laptop and not worry about my dissertation for now ;-)
<LaserJock_> I picked up a book on Ruby today at Barnes and Noble
<jdong> LaserJock_: awesome
<LaserJock_> there were gobs of Ruby books
<jdong> LaserJock_: IMO it's a really nice language
<LaserJock_> in fact
<LaserJock_> I think only Java had more books
<LaserJock_> other maybe some crap in the MS programming section
<bddebian> *ahem*
<LaserJock_> but there were more Ruby than C/C++, php, python at least
<jdong> LaserJock_: well Rails has reached buzzword status
<LaserJock_> yeah, totally
<LaserJock_> 3/4 of the Ruby books were Ruby on Rails
<LaserJock_> bddebian: :p
<macd> LaserJock_, you want to start learning Ruby?
 * macd hasnt ever looked back since he did
<LaserJock_> well, I don't know
<LaserJock_> I'm not really sure why I should
<LaserJock_> other than I know a lot of people who use it
<bddebian> Learn assembler holmes, be a man ;-P
<StevenK> Meh, Rails is the only reason I wanted to learn Ruby
<LaserJock_> well, I don't think I care about Rails
<LaserJock_> maybe I will once I get into it, but right now it's not very interesting to me
<macd> I knew ruby, then dove into rails, and had to relearn ruby
<macd> but imho ruby is a nice lang
<LaserJock_> there's a chemoinformatics guy that's into Ruby
<macd> albeit slow.
<jdong> I think ruby is a great power-user language
<LaserJock_> and he's got lots of ruby info
<LaserJock_> now he's into JRuby
<jdong> it like gets you Python interactiveness with Perl power...
<jdong> macd: ruby seems to hae MUCH more active plans to correct that than Python
<macd> Yeah, Ruby2.0 has YARV, then it shall be much faster
<LaserJock_> yeah, I guess that's my question, I know some python, so why would I want to learn Ruby?
<macd> We tested it a bit with a rails app, and saw acorss the board increases, most were double.
<jdong> LaserJock_: I find Ruby preferable to Python, now that I know both
 * macd nods
<LaserJock_> for compelling reasons, or just "cause it seems nice"?
<jdong> sometimes Python's API can force you to write more OOP politically correct code than ruby beautiful compact code
<jdong> the ruby block syntax is amazing
<jdong> I love it
<macd> Ruby is almost to easy to read
<macd> and jdong hit it on the head with that
<jdong> the only "complaint" I have about Ruby is its sigils for global / instance variables are not intuitively obvious
<jdong> though straightforward once learned
<LaserJock_> well, I'll give it a shot and see how it goes
<LaserJock_> I'm not a programmer so sometimes the differences between languages isn't obvious to me
<macd> yeah, Ive had trouble with my globals carrying into classes, but newer ruby versions have more inheritance
<macd> thats more rails then ruby in my case though
<LaserJock_> I've gotta also figure out what rails is useful for, I don't really know anything about it
<macd> you can build a webapp pretty fast, other than that I dont see much use
<LaserJock_> would it be similar to django?
<jdong> LaserJock_: exactly
<jdong> LaserJock_: django is a clone of rails for Python
<LaserJock_> ok, sweet
<LaserJock_> I've been learning django
<LaserJock_> a little anyway
<LaserJock_> you guys would laugh at the simple stuff I do
 * bddebian wouldn't
<bddebian> I can barely to "Hello World" ;-)
 * tritium wouldn't
<LaserJock_> tritium!!!!!
<bddebian> s/to/do/
<tritium> LaserJock_: :)
<LaserJock_> tritium: I started my dissertation
<tritium> LaserJock_: that's excellent!!!
<LaserJock_> I might just graduate ;-)
<tritium> Yay!
<RAOF> Wooooo!
<ScottK> LaserJock_: Do you read http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php
 * RAOF has started a paper that will form a large part of his thesis, does that count? :P
<tritium> RAOF: sure :)
<LaserJock_> ScottK: yes, I get the RSS feed ;-)
<tritium> RAOF: isn't that how we all do it?  :)
<LaserJock_> ScottK: it's totally my lab :-)
<ScottK> LaserJock_: Cool.  I thought it'd be something you'd like.
<RAOF> tritium: I hear that some people actually just write a thesis, rather than cobbling together papers ;)
 * ScottK thinks RAOF should read http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php too.
<tritium> RAOF: what a hassle!
<LaserJock_> RAOF: yeah, my dissertation will be that way
<LaserJock_> my advisor tends to take like 3-4 years to get a paper out
<RAOF> That guy came and talked at UNSW recently, although I missed it.
<RAOF> LaserJock_: Wow.  He'd be totally fired in .au, from what I gather.
<tritium> LaserJock_: although, after you graduate, I'd not suggest you come to work here
<bddebian> Gah, gnight gang
<tritium> Good night, bddebian :)
<LaserJock_> tritium: yeah?
<LaserJock_> cya bddebian
<tritium> LaserJock_: yeah, sucks
<LaserJock_> tritium: well, I'd most likely end up in Livermore if I was gonna go to a government lab
<tritium> LaserJock_: things look even worse there (budget-wise)
<LaserJock_> yeah? that's no fun
<LaserJock_> last year one of the senior researchers were wondering if I wanted to go over there
<LaserJock_> but it's California ...
<tritium> nope, and raises this year were crap
<LaserJock_> yeah, I'd honestly just like to get a teaching job at a small school in MT
<tritium> Nice.
<LaserJock_> but the odds of that are like nil
<tritium> LaserJock_: you can do it, Nicky!
<LaserJock_> actually, at this point I think I'd also like to check out chemisty software development
<RAOF> LaserJock_: If the state of materials science software is any guide, practically *anything* you do would be gratefully received.
<LaserJock_> I'm interested in science education software
<tritium> LaserJock_: let's start our own company :)
<LaserJock_> heh
<LaserJock_> I'm not much of a business person
<tritium> Nor am I.
<LaserJock_> but I think computing has great potential in science
<LaserJock_> most profs give computing lip-service at best
 * tritium is surprised at that
<RAOF> If the scientific software I've seen wasn't so totally rubbish, I'd imagine that would change.
<tritium> I guess my experience in engineering was different
<LaserJock_> in my department, we just have a few "computer" labs because that's what you do
<LaserJock_> but nobody takes it seriously
<tritium> Ah.
<LaserJock_> I think the fact that most of the software costs >$1000 / license effects things
<LaserJock_> students can't just take it home
<LaserJock_> for research tools it's not bad
<LaserJock_> but when it comes to education it's just a joke
<LaserJock_> I had a grand scheme of writing a pluggable Chemistry education toolkit
<RAOF> What would be in such a toolkit?
<LaserJock_> where you had simulations of equations and chemical proccesses
<LaserJock_> as well as actual content
<LaserJock_> so a teacher could just kinda drag-n-drop an interactive and visually interesting presentation
<LaserJock_> and it'd be open source
<LaserJock_> so the content could be created by teachers everywhere
<LaserJock_> and "modules" could be easily added
<RAOF> Actually, I don't think I know what chemists do as far as research, apart from not being able to design catalysts :)
<LaserJock_> I have no idea really how to do all that
<LaserJock_> RAOF: it entirely depends on the field
<LaserJock_> for my research I only need data acquisition and data processing/fitting
<RAOF> I kinda think of mathematics as primary, so there's obvious stuff for _physicists_ to do, but not so much for chemists :)
<LaserJock_> yes
<LaserJock_> well, for organic chemists it's quite interesting
<LaserJock_> the Blue Obelisk group is a loose organization of open source chemists
<LaserJock_> and we look at writing open algorithms and open data
<LaserJock_> one of the biggest problems right now
<RAOF> Algorithms for... reaction moddling?  Folding?
<LaserJock_> is how do you turn a molecule into a machine readable form
 * RAOF 's background kinda brackets chemistry with maths and biochem ;)
<LaserJock_> I can *draw* all kinds of molecules, but my computer knows nothing about them
<RAOF> Isn't a molecule pretty well described by a network of atoms?
<LaserJock_> hehe
<lifeless> hell no
<LaserJock_> very simplistically yes
<lifeless> not if you want to handle things like 3-way electron sharing
<RAOF> Plus a whole bunch of complicated quantum physics, but..
<LaserJock_> but things like sterochemistry are very difficult
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  Of course.
<LaserJock_> turning a 2d drawing into a 3d model is very difficult
<lifeless> do you need to consider folking in the description ?
<RAOF> lifeless: But that's really just a physical consequence of the atomic network, right?
<LaserJock_> there's also huge amount of work to be done in data mining
<lifeless> RAOF: now I'm out of depth
<LaserJock_> RAOF: well, there's the atomic network, but then there's the electronic structure, etc.
<LaserJock_> like I need to know that a sp3 hybridized carbon atom is attached to a chromium atom in a III oxidation state, etc.
<RAOF> Mmm, yeah.
<LaserJock_> RAOF: consider http://depth-first.com/articles/2007/10/11/how-would-your-cheminformatics-tool-do-this
<jsgotangco> LaserJock_: ultra geeky
<LaserJock_> RAOF: or http://depth-first.com/articles/2007/10/17/how-would-your-cheminformatics-tool-do-this
<LaserJock_> the question is how to turn that stuff into a machine readable form
<LaserJock_> so that say I'm given some form of "ID" I can recreate the molecule *exactly*
<lifeless> FSVO exact? surel heisenberg is in here
<LaserJock_> not exact in terms of bond lengths
<LaserJock_> exact in terms of, this is the molecule I told you it was
<lifeless> so I guess your __eq__ needs clarifying ;)
<LaserJock_> is it zwitterionic, are the stereo centers all correct
<LaserJock_> etc.
<LaserJock_> the problem, I guess, is that chemistry is very creative and graphical
<LaserJock_> and often times a lot less mathematical than say physics
<RAOF> That's only because you don't understand it well enough :P (says the mathematician)
<LaserJock_> well
<lifeless> RAOF: I was thinking that ;)
<LaserJock_> in some sense yes
<RAOF> Also because *we* as mathematicians haven't got good tools for dealing with large-system complexity
<LaserJock_> if we were able to do everything quantum mechanically then there would be much less uncertainty
<frostburn> i heard someone say mathematicians
<LaserJock_> but right now you can't really go beyond the hydrogen atom with approximations
<LaserJock_> *without
<RAOF> And that's partially our fault.
<LaserJock_> chemistry just has a lot of issues
<frostburn> you can't model the hydrogen atom precisely either o.O
<LaserJock_> sure you can
 * RAOF obviously is spokesman of the entire mathematical community.
<LaserJock_> the hydrogen atom is an analytical solution
<frostburn> Heisenberg uncertainty principle?
<RAOF> frostburn: What exactly do you mean by juxtaposing "model" with "precisely" :P
<frostburn> or neutron decay
<LaserJock_> bah, who cares about Heisenburg ;-)
<frostburn> RAOF, a model is an approximation, a "real" model doesn't exist and never will =]
<LaserJock_> chemists haven't really gotten on the open source train yet
<RAOF> Well, yes it does.  I contend that hydrogen atoms exist.  But yes, a precise model is useless.
<frostburn> i'd say science in general hasn't either.  paying thousands of dollars per year for a journal subscription, no thanks
<LaserJock_> any decent molecular drawing app has to handle over 80 different formats for describing a molecule
<LaserJock_> frostburn: biology and physics are much more open than chemistry
<frostburn> agreed, and biology damn you pharmaceutical companies
<LaserJock_> well, yeah, but NIH balances that a lot
<frostburn> so when are we going to port an autoverse to ubuntu...
<LaserJock_> the best chemical databases come from NIH
<LaserJock_> which is just sad to me
<frostburn> capitalism at it's best
<LaserJock_> s/best/best free or open/
<pwnguin> heh
<LaserJock_> in any case, I'm interested quite a bit in improving the FLOSS and computing situation in chemistry
<pwnguin> im surprised mjg doesnt have more stories about dna sequences
<pwnguin> i spent a semester in a bioinformatics course
<LaserJock_> but I'm a physical chemist and not an chemoinformatics guy
 * RAOF boggles at mentors.debian.net.  Why have you eaten my specto upload?
<pwnguin> and its a miracle anyone believes we sequenced the human genome
<frostburn> you can sequence it, but not have any idea how things relate
<LaserJock_> in fact, my PhD research barely even requires a computer at all
<pwnguin> frostburn: sure we do
<RAOF> "the human genome" is an interesting falacy.
<LaserJock_> ewww, bio stuff
<pwnguin> its rather surprising how few changes it takes to make a new gene
<RAOF> pwnguin: Well, one.
<pwnguin> muscular dystrophy only needs a single base pair change
<frostburn> pwnguin, there's no one "gene" that changes a persons hair, it's an interaction between several genes, and we're barely starting to understand this
<pwnguin> frostburn: im deeply aware of the difficulties
<RAOF> Because proteins are spectacularyl complicated things, and it's quite easy to break them.
<LaserJock_> yeah
<LaserJock_> I work on molecules with < 100 atoms
<LaserJock_> and that's hard enough
<pwnguin> RAOF: i was just surprised to discover that you can break them so easily with only a few base changes and not wind up with a massively different protein. i imagine selective pressures hide the millions of failed permuations
<LaserJock_> it boggles my mind to think about proteins
<frostburn> i usually don't
<frostburn> that's why i like physics and math
<LaserJock_> heh
<RAOF> LaserJock_: And proteins with < 100 amino acids are pretty small ;)
<LaserJock_> yeah, crazy
<pwnguin> heh
<LaserJock_> I think I'm gonna be doing some work with proteins in a little while
<LaserJock_> I've got a collaboration going with a biochem group
<pwnguin> try not to think about ternary protein structures
<RAOF> And fold into compliated 3d structures, often with the help of other proteins, and in highly non-equilibrium situations.
<LaserJock_> I'm not crazy about putting proteins in my instrument
<frostburn> orgo was the reason my roomate went crazy and stopped talking to me for 2 years tyvm.
<RAOF> s/equilibrium/homogeneous/
<LaserJock_> frostburn: haha
<pwnguin> frostburn: as long as he pays the rent...
<LaserJock_> chemistry exists to make biochemists, pre-meds, and engineers go nuts
<frostburn> pwnguin, dunno, just started talking to him again =P
<pwnguin> oh man, ive seen some really bad perl code as a result of dna sequencing
<LaserJock_> I've broken many a pre-med in Physical Chemistry Lab ;-)
<pwnguin> this program for filtering for likely SNPs terminated on a divide by zero error
<pwnguin> that appeared to be the intended method of operation
<RAOF> What?  It segfaults when it's found something?
<pwnguin> no
<pwnguin> when it runs out of data
<RAOF> Imagine I'm tired :)
<pwnguin> floating point error
<RAOF> Yeah, that's what I meant. :)
<pwnguin> it writes everything it finds to a file
<pwnguin> then when it cant find anything more, it dies on a divide by zero
<pwnguin> phred and phrap are also amazing pieces of technology
<pwnguin> they're delivered by uucp encoded email
<frostburn> i'm out, i don't want nightmares of hydrogen models and probability densities
<LaserJock_> haha
<LaserJock_> wavfunctions .... mmmm
<LaserJock_> I'm out too
<LaserJock_> I gotta try some ruby and see if I can't do something useful with it
<pwnguin> basically, i discovered that none of the biologists in the class were prepared to touch computers for use with science
<LaserJock_> yep
<LaserJock_> we had 1st year foreign grad students who'd never used a computer before
<pwnguin> apparently if you dont like math biology is the place to be
<LaserJock_> I've thought about doing a "Computing for Chemists" workshop for my department
<LaserJock_> shell scripting would be a big hit
<LaserJock_> people are doing repetitive tasks by hand
<pwnguin> i have to say though
<pwnguin> pdb and pymol are pretty cool
<LaserJock_> if they gotta use the computers it'd be at least nice to use it efficiently
<LaserJock_> I'm working on gchemutils upstream
<pwnguin> i was able to follow along with most of the class on ubuntu
<LaserJock_> I think it could be revolutionary software for chemists
<LaserJock_> the problem with chemistry software is it's mostly written in Java :-)
<pwnguin> or fortran :P
<LaserJock_> oh, fortran is great
<LaserJock_> Java is from the devil
<pwnguin> yea, column rank arrays are natural
<LaserJock_> I've *almost* got my boss to move to Fortran90 instead of Fortran77
<LaserJock_> but python just doesn't make a dent
<pwnguin> we had someone demo a shotgun sequencing app, where the cluster control software was written in...
<pwnguin> visual basic
<LaserJock_> for my analytical chemistry class we used just plain BASIC and DOS
<LaserJock_> anyway, I'm out
<LaserJock_> gnight MOTU Land
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<zakame> my someone's having a good time :)
<gpocentek> hello
<zakame> hi gpocentek
<gpocentek> hello zakame
<zakame> thanks dholbach
<gpocentek> people are going crazy
<dholbach> yeah
<zakame> insanity, post-release.
<dholbach> yeah
<coNP[uni]> Hey MOTUs!
<dholbach> hey coNP[uni]! :)
<coNP[uni]> Hey Master Daniel! :)
<coNP[uni]> I am *so* sad there is no +1 now... :(
<coNP[uni]> I miss you, development Gutsy...
 * coNP[uni] cries...
 * superm1 cries too
<superm1> and hi folks
<coNP[uni]> Hey superm1
<superm1> coNP[uni], university just started up for you i'm taking it if you've got the [uni] tag?
<coNP[uni]> A month ago.
<superm1> ah.
<coNP[uni]> Actually this is my uni lab computer (that is usually always turned on)
<superm1> about 1.5 months ago on me.  i might have to actually focus on school work now that archives are frozen and we're all released now :)
<coNP[uni]> superm1: same applies for me. :)
<coNP[uni]> Actually I am not here ATM but our lecturer is late :)
<Hobbsee> hm, no slytherin pong.
<lifeless> where is the doctor
<Hobbsee> off sick?
<BugMaN> hi all
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i think you need the doctor?
<Hobbsee> actually giving an interview???
<ajmitch> I didn't, really
<Hobbsee> you're mentioend and quoted.
<Hobbsee> have you taken over the world yet too?
<ajmitch> no :P
<Hobbsee> pity
<Whoopie> jdong: hi, where did you find the fglrx patch for xen/rt?
<jmg> rt?
<Whoopie> jmg: real time
<jmg> theres a xen/realtime patch?\
<amarillion> can I use pbuilder to test a package that build-depends on sun-java5-jdk? I run into problems because of this error: 'sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented'
<geser> amarillion: even if you manage to build it in pbuilder, you get the same problem on the buildds
<amarillion> Yeah I thought so.
<geser> doesn't it build with one of the free java implementations?
<amarillion> I thought those aren't java5 compatible?
<man-di> amarillion: use java-gcj-compat-dev
<man-di> its java5 compatible now (minus bugs)
<amarillion> I'll try, thanks
<amarillion> btw, I thought java was going to be released as GPL. Hasn't that happened yet?
<geser> man-di: do you know how usable icedtea (java7) is already?
<jmg> amarillion: timeline
<man-di> geser: usable
<man-di> but i386 and amd64 only
<man-di> amarillion: its partly done, not full
<amarillion> Does it make sense to list more than one possible build-dep like this:
<amarillion> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), ant, java-gcj-compat-dev | sun-java5-jdk | sun-java6-jdk
<amarillion> ?
<amarillion> Or should I make separate binary packages for each?
<man-di> amarillion: please dont
<man-di> amarillion: build with one runtime
<man-di> and be dont
<man-di> done
<amarillion> ok
<norsetto> good first hardy day to everybody ....
<Fujitsu> norsetto: Evening.
<geser> Hi norsetto, Fujitsu
<norsetto> hey geser, how is this votation working, do we have to say which of the two we prefer, or say wether we like them or not?
<soren> Whether you like us or not.
<soren> It's not so much an election than a vote of trust.
<soren> s/than/as/
<norsetto> soren, ok, where I can see a picture of you then? If you both are uglier than me I can trust you
<geser> haven't two MC members retired? so there are to positions to fill
<dholbach> GO HARDY! :)
<dholbach> it's as geser says: two positions are open, there are two nominees, all ubuntu-devs will either confirm the nominees or not
<norsetto> dholbach: go HARDY go!!
 * dholbach does the first uploads :-)
<BugMaN> hi dholbach!
<dholbach> hey BugMaN
<StevenK> dholbach: It's frozen, so nyah :-P
<norsetto> dholbach: woot? Is the repo already open!?
<BugMaN> ave norsetto! :)
<norsetto> ave bugman! morituri te salutant
<dholbach> norsetto: is it that bad?
<norsetto> dholbach: remember the mentoring meeting?
<dholbach> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> dholbach: so ......
<dholbach> norsetto: hmm?
<norsetto> dholbach: do you think I will make it out alive?
<dholbach> of course :-)
<dholbach> we need you
<norsetto> dholbach: ok uncle daniel ;-)
<dholbach> :-)
<soren> norsetto: Heh... https://launchpadlibrarian.net/7101101/hackergotchi-192px.png <-- That's me.
<norsetto> dholbach: can you please stop pointing that finger at me? Its intimidating
 * norsetto check soren
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach
<dholbach> norsetto: hu? intimidating? what?
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee :)
 * Hobbsee thinks we should all upload lots of crack now
<norsetto> soren: woot? You are not blonde? What kind of a northern european you are ;-)
<Hobbsee> if i approve it, it can be done silently!  :D
<Hobbsee> no one will ever know...
 * Hobbsee looks innocently around
<soren> norsetto: :(
<norsetto> soren: hey, just kidding eh .... don't take me seriously (although you will be the first to do so .....)
<BugMaN> Hobbsee: hi, i try to ask someone to active my cloak can you give me an hand? :)
<soren> norsetto: Don't worry. I won't ;)
<Hobbsee> BugMaN: no, sorry.  ask in #ubuntu-ops in ~6 hours, maybe.
<BugMaN> Hobbsee: ok thanks, i jusk ask in @ubuntu-ops
<proppy> hi
<proppy> norsetto: ping
 * proppy freshly gutsy updated
<norsetto> proppy: pong
<slytherin> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> Hobbsee: pm? I need to discuss FOSS.IN thing (if you have read my memo). :-)
<Hobbsee> slytherin: sure.
<proppy> norsetto: ping
<proppy> again
 * TheMuso can't seem to see the MOTU meeting on the fridge.
<proppy> norsetto: I've though about a new strategy regarding viewvc bug
<proppy> norsetto: instead of improving viewvc-config
<proppy> norsetto: make a 100% specific python script
<proppy> norsetto: which use http://docs.python.org/lib/RawConfigParser-objects.html to add template_dir option
<proppy> norsetto: and the small regexp we've tested to comment template lines
<proppy> norsetto: what do you think ?
 * Hobbsee waves to TheMuso and proppy 
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
 * norsetto complains
<TheMuso> am I right then that the meeting is in an hour and a bit?
 * Hobbsee waves to norsetto too
<Hobbsee> proppy: btw, i'm not a woman.  i'm a green alien.
 * norsetto waves back with a big grin on his face
 * proppy Hobbsee hello sed addict !
<soren> Motu meeting is in an hour and 15 minutes, right?
 * proppy silently consider if he wants to hug a green alien
 * proppy waves to Hobbsee
<proppy> waving is fine for others species
<norsetto> proppy: whatever you believe is more approprate, but you have to convince the DD, so, make it simple and effective
<norsetto> motu meeting is at 12:00 UTC, so, yes 1h15m from now
<soren> norsetto: Great, thanks.
<norsetto> anyone know when we can upload to hardy?
<Hobbsee> after the toolchain is built.
<soren> norsetto: The toolchain needs to get uploaded and built first.
<soren> Probably middle of next week, I think.
<norsetto> Hobbsee, soren: okki, thx
 * norsetto is eager to upload the latest crack
 * TheMuso saw an upload to hardy on changes. A gcc upload.
<TheMuso> norsetto: tsk tsk tsk. Shame on you. This is an LTS release.
<norsetto> TheMuso: yes, longer term fun :-)
<norsetto> Hobbsee: this selene is flooding me with emails
 * proppy is not as good as norsetto when it comes to joking
<Hobbsee> norsetto: selene?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: you just declined her for u-u-s
<Hobbsee> norsetto: ugh.
<proppy> norsetto: I don't think the dd will be happy to see bug introduced in his code :)
<Hobbsee> you're mentoring?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: well, I got 3 emails from her this morning, telling me how excited she was to: 1) having applied for MOTU 2) if I could be her mentor 3) what she should do with your email
 * norsetto tries to explain again to selene what this is all about
<Hobbsee> norsetto: ...yuck
<Hobbsee> i thought they couldnt apply for MOTU
<Hobbsee> oh, she must haev thought that the sponsors was MOTU
<norsetto> Hobbsee: well, apparently she just requested to join u-u-s, I wonder how many requests like this she did
<Hobbsee> goodness only knows
<Hobbsee> i just pasted her what the main page says. if they don't read that the first time, then they might just raed it when it gets emailed to them
<persia> Hobbsee: I just looked at that page again, and it seems to have double content.  Do we need the first three paragraphs?
<Hobbsee> persia: you recommended it to me, iirc
<persia> Hobbsee: I stupidly didn't check after the update.  I had intended paragraphs 4-6 to replace paragraphs 1-3.
<persia> Umm.  Rather, paragraphs 3-6 to replace something.  I don't know.
<persia> Anyway, paragraphs 1 & 4 seem to say the same thing, and paragraphs 2 & 5+6 seem to say the same thing.
<Hobbsee> persia: right
<proppy> norsetto: I think I know why the DD is not using configparser
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/viewvc.conf
<persia> Do you think it's safe to delete paragraphs 1 & 2 then?
<proppy> norsetto: it strips out all the comment
<norsetto> proppy: ah
<norsetto> proppy: nice libraries you have in python .....
<proppy> norsetto: maybe I've missed something
<Hobbsee> note to general public:  if you wish for a group of people to vote something, when telling them "this pole is up", consider giving them the actual link
<StevenK> Hobbsee: "poll"
<Hobbsee> oh, i thought it looked wrong.
<StevenK> Are they up under motu-council?
<norsetto> lol
<StevenK> But agreed, I want to be lazy and just click links too. :-P
<persia> They are under ~ubuntu-dev
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/polls
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls
<dholbach> Hobbsee: tell sabdfl :)
<dholbach> anyway...
 * dholbach -> dogwalk
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yeah, i plan to.
<StevenK> No wonder I couldn't find them.
<dholbach> but luckily we had sistpoty watching all this and he forwarded it to all of us, so no harm done
<TheMuso> um I don't see any new polls.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: no, they dont help.  the polls still arent listed tehre
 * norsetto goes to eat something before the meeting parade begins
<dholbach> Hobbsee: if nobody writes a follow up mail with http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls in it, I'll do it, when I get back
 * persia sees "Current polls" listed at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls 
<StevenK> As do I
 * StevenK has already voted for one
<TheMuso> of course
<StevenK> And there's both.
<StevenK> Yay. gcc-4.2 is the first upload to hardy.
<persia> StevenK: Doesn't the toolchain always go first?
<TheMuso> persia: yes
<StevenK> persia: gcc-4.2 looks like part of the toolchain to me
<persia> That's why I don't understand the "Yay"
<StevenK> The yay is more pointing it at being the first ever upload to hardy
<Hobbsee> right, voted.
 * persia resolves to be less inquisitive about random things
<proppy> norsetto: what do you think of http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/file/66390d556e22/home/www/comment/viewvc-template ?
<proppy> norsetto: it passed the following test http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/file/66390d556e22/home/www/comment/test-viewvc-template.sh
<TheMuso> asac: Just wondering, is there gran-paradiso alpha8 in a PPA anywhere?
<asac> its in gutsy universe
<asac> install firefox-3.0 package
<asac> TheMuso: :-D
<TheMuso> oh ok, I don't remember seeing it on gutsy changes.
<TheMuso> never mind me then.
<norsetto> proppy: remember that this will be called from the postinst script, so make sure it is installed in the right place and uses the rigth paths
<proppy> norsetto: yep but do you have anything about the script being so specific ?
<proppy> norsetto: it takes no argument for the moment, and it's only purpose is to add/comment the desired line
<norsetto> proppy: and is that not enough?
<TheMuso> Meeting in 7 minutes.
<proppy> norsetto: I'm worried about the next version of the package
<proppy> norsetto: the maintainer will have to look at the python code to find if if still relevant
<norsetto> proppy: this is why we submit it to Debian, its up to them to decide how to proceed
<proppy> norsetto: instead of looking a a script like .postint
<proppy> ok
<proppy> let's make a first submission like this
<proppy> and see with them if there is a pb with it
<proppy> understood :)
<norsetto> proppy: you will join the meetings I hope?
<proppy> norsetto: If I'm invited sure :)
<norsetto> proppy: what? You are not subscribed to motu-mentoring and/or motu?
<proppy> norsetto: To submit an appropriate bug report, I guess we'll have to reproduce it properly on debian (which is something I've not done so far)
<norsetto> proppy: thats easy, just do a sid chroot
<norsetto> proppy: but you don't need to do that, just test it with the feisty-gutsy case
<nxvl> good morning
<proppy> norsetto: I'm suscribed to to the list :)
<dholbach> MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<norsetto> proppy: so? everybody on those lists was invited ... no lame excuses
<proppy> let's talk about this bug after the meeting time :)
<proppy> norsetto: so so so
<persia> Actually, anyone interested in Universe development is invited.  No need to be subscribed to the lists.
<norsetto> persia: as long as they know about it, which might not be the case if they are not subscribed .....
<persia> norsetto: Depends.  Some people read the archives...
<ScottK> Or notice mention here.
<TheMuso> meeting now
<nxvl> !uds
<fernando> moin all
<huats> hi everybody
<ubotu> The Ubuntu Developer Summit is being held Oct 29th to Nov 2nd in Boston, USA.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston
<norsetto> huats: #ubuntu-meeting
 * ajmitch forgot about meeting, oh well
<huats> ajmitch: when the meeting is over I'd like to talk with you :-)
<huats> norsetto: thanks...
 * ajmitch will be asleep
<norsetto> ajmitch: oh oh, he wants to talk with you, be VERY scared ....
<ajmitch> if it's about zope stuff (as you mentioned in channel), best to talk to the debian zope team
<huats> ajmitch: it is about zope indeed...
<huats> ajmitch: sorry to ask, but how to talk with the team ?
<ajmitch> pkg-zope-developers@lists.alioth.debian.org
<huats> ajmitch: ok thanks
<huats> I'll drop an email..
<huats> basically it is : OK, I'd like to help... what can I do :-)
<huats> ajmitch: I've sent the email... thanks...
<eolo999> eolo999: ciao
<proppy> norsetto: want to share a room @boston ?
<norsetto> proppy: thx, but I will pass this time, next one should be in Europe, so its gonna be easier
<proppy> norsetto: ah right where ?
<norsetto> proppy: don't think its fixed, there was an email out asking for ideas
<norsetto> proppy: just in case, I snore .... badly ;-)
<proppy> norsetto: you should update your lp page with that type of information
<norsetto> lol
<coNP[uni]> Hey norsetto, predius
<coNP[uni]> Even proppy
<TheMuso> ScottK: Then if we did backporting, I'd put my hand up to help.
<ScottK> persia: New packages can be backported as long as all dependencies are met.
<norsetto> coNP[uni]: #ubuntu-meeting
<ScottK> TheMuso: What we really need help with in backports is testing.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Well whatever.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Right.  Perhaps we should do a mdt run on gutsy/hardy to see easy candidates through to DIF (although it becomes less useful with time)
<proppy> predius ?
<ScottK> If you get a shiny new package into gutsy-backports, people will use it and report bugs.
<coNP[uni]> Oh, we have friday now :(
<TheMuso> ScottK: I'd be helping with testing ackages that we want people to try out.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Just to give you a sample, this is the current Feisty backports backlog https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bugs
<TheMuso> ScottK: So are these packages already built, or do we build them ourselves
<ScottK> persia: When reviewing new packages if one keeps backports in mind, it's easier.
<TheMuso> ScottK: out
<TheMuso> ouch
<TheMuso> even
<persia> ScottK: Do you mean trying to compile against both current and development?
<ScottK> TheMuso: You can build them yourself or jdong has a tool he calls sharkattack (down as of last night) that will build them for you.
<TheMuso> ScottK: meh I'd trust my sbuild more I think.
<TheMuso> not that jdong's tool isn't bad of course.
<TheMuso> But its what I'm used to.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Yeah, me too (pbuilder for me though)
<TheMuso> to each their own.
<ScottK> persia: I was thinking more of reviewing depends to make sure versioned depends aren't higher than they need to be.
 * persia thinks testing an "official" build would help reduce compile-time issues (not that these are common for backports)
<persia> ScottK: You do that manually?
<TheMuso> ScottK: Well, I may consider joining up, and giving you guys a hand.
<ScottK> persia: IMO many people set versioned depends to be the version in their target distro and not the minimun version it needs to be.
<ScottK> persia: Do which manually?
<persia> ScottK: Manually check versioned depends.  Personally, I'm opposed to them unless someone can show me that they depend on a certain version for a clear reason (based on the published changelog)
<ScottK> persia: Agreed, but I don't think it's something everyone checks closely for.
<ScottK> Or in some cases if you consider backports in your depends, you can use "|" depends to make a package backportable.
<persia> ScottK: Maybe there should be a clearer list of things to check, both for people making packages, and people reviewing packages.  Current docs are a little vague, and I shouldn't have a reputation for being picky for just running lintian and linda and checking copyright.
 * ScottK doesn't think that's picky.
<persia> ScottK: exactly.  That's why I think more docs on good things to check would be helpful, for everyone.
<ScottK> My basic idea is that if we make a concious effort to push more New packages into backports to get early user exposure, we've a better chance of having better packages at the end.
<ScottK> persia: Agreed.
<bsund> is there a reason why lots of stuff is kinda outdated? or do you need ppl to contribute? for example xmoto and azureus is kinda old
<ScottK> As long as there's no rule I need to submit a filled out copy of the checklist in triplicate before advocating a package, I'm happy.
<ScottK> bsund: Yes.
<Fujitsu> bsund: Azureus is evil. Very very evil.
<ScottK> That would be the reason for Azureus.
<proppy> coNP[uni]: predius ?
<Fujitsu> It's a complete mess, and I'm still TIL after uploading a fix for jdong.
<Fujitsu> A long time ago.
<soren> Fujitsu: TIL?
<Fujitsu> soren: Touched It Last.
 * soren is mildly annoyed that he managed to miss the meeting once again.
<soren> Fujitsu: Oh.
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/843c8bf25841
<proppy> norsetto: last fix before post.inst
 * proppy propaway
<proppy> oops
<amarillion> Is there documentation on the differences between gcj and sun-java? I'm trying to get my package to build with gcj
<amarillion> I get some compile errors that seem pretty minor, so it can probably be fixed
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 2 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> hey bddebian
<cypherbios|lunch> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya persia, cypherbios|lunch
<geser> Hi bddebian
<imbrandon> moins all
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser, imbrandon
<imbrandon> cypherbios|lunch: ... of uboontu ?
<cypherbios|lunch> imbrandon: yes, but usually without the '|lunch' ;)
<imbrandon> ahh cool, poke me sometime , i dident realize you hung out on irc
<cypherbios|lunch> imbrandon: I think we need to talk
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> :)
<cypherbios|lunch> imbrandon: give me 10 minutes to finish my lunch and then we can talk
<imbrandon> np, i'm in no hurry
<Hobbsee> norsetto: that's two people who cant read instructions for the night.  *sigh*
<Hobbsee> norsetto: which paragraphs did you say to merge, sorry?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: err, what did I say!?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: u-u-s
<Hobbsee> oh, first 2 paragraphs didnt get dropped, i see
 * persia thanks Hobbsee for dilligence and excellent memory :)
<ScottK> StevenK: I just hacked (in the painful sense of the word) your requestsync script to spit out a list of packages in Debian Python Modules Team that has an Ubuntu diff to make it easy to look for fixes to feed back.
<Hobbsee> oh, crud1
<Hobbsee> norsetto: persia: sorry!
<persia> Hobbsee: About?
<Hobbsee> persia: u-u-s paragraphs
<Hobbsee> oh, bah.
 * Hobbsee spies a LP bug
<cypherbios> imbrandon: pvt
<Hobbsee> oh, i see :)
<StevenK> ScottK: Why would you hack requestsync for that?
<Hobbsee> persia: 2 places for the same sorts of info.  who the team is, and what they do
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Annoying.
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> on different screens, too
<ScottK> StevenK: Because it already knows how to look up the version of a package in Ubuntu and Debian.
<ScottK> That's really all I used out of it.
<persia> Hobbsee: Lovely.  There should at least be some visual aid to help administrators understand that.
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: for a moment you scared me .....
<StevenK> ScottK: You mean that lovely rmadison script? :-)
<ScottK> Yeah.  That one.
<ScottK> No one else has to ever see how ugly I made it and it works.  Good enough.
<Hobbsee> nxvl: ping
<nxvl> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> nxvl: can you explain to me about ubuntu-universe-sponsors please?
<nxvl> Hobbsee: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<persia> nxvl: Hobbsee is the administrator of the team: another question may be being asked.
<nxvl> Hobbsee: is like a tutor, they will check your work, and if they think it's right, they will upload your packages
<nxvl> persia: heh
<nxvl> Hobbsee: what do you mean?
<proppy> norsetto: ping
<Hobbsee> nxvl: indeed.  but the people *in* that team are the tutors.  did you read https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ before joining?
<norsetto> prooppy: in #ubuntu-classroom
<Hobbsee> not the tutorees
<proppy> damn seems I've missed the Q&A
<persia> proppy: Still ongoing: feel free to join now...
<nxvl> Hobbsee: oh! ok, i think i misundestud it :S
<proppy> woo long session
<dholbach> proppy: #ubuntu-classroom
<nxvl> Hobbsee: sorry about that
<Hobbsee> nxvl: no problem, you're just the second tonight, and i'm starting to wonder if it's unclear or something
<nxvl> Hobbsee: i think is more a LP problem than any other thing, for new people (like me) is just like, open the page, and click on join the team
<nxvl> Hobbsee: it's kind of default actions
<Hobbsee> nxvl: actually, the page should probably point to the overview page, not the bugs page.
<Hobbsee> (the wiki)
<nxvl> the point to the bugs?
<nxvl> i didn't remember that
 * nxvl opens the wiki
<nxvl> btw, i hate mi conection
<nxvl> connection*
<zul_> i love kdiff3 and filterdiff
<nxvl> i'm trying to download hardy's debootstrap, can anyone point me to the package cause browsing the repos is a nightmare here
<persia> nxvl: Hardy doesn't exist today: wait :)
<nxvl> persia: but it's on the repos
<persia> zul: Have you tried editdiff?
<nxvl> persia: it's still like a copy of gutsy
<nxvl> ?
<zul_> persia: dont need it im trying to port something to be a bit more modern
<nxvl> Hobbsee: it point to the bugs AND the overview
<persia> nxvl: It's a scratch area to work out the new build tools.  There will be an annoucement when it starts being ready for investigation.
<nxvl> well, back to -classroom
<Hobbsee> right, so then it's not my problem if people cant actually read, and use thought.  great!  :)
<nxvl> persia: oh!, ok thnx :D
 * Hobbsee wishes the people at work would *also* employ thought.  </bitter>
<persia> zul: Ah.  Good.  editdiff is just one of my favorites from patchutils when I'm using patches.
<zul_> Hobbsee: thats everywhere
<Hobbsee> zul_: yeah, well.
<norsetto> geser, persia: thx for your help guys
<proppy> norsetto: #154399
<proppy> bug #154399
<norsetto> bug 154399
<norsetto> ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................
<proppy> broken ?
 * proppy https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> proppy: is it working? Just cosmetic, could you break the line with a backslash?
<norsetto> proppy: you should ask lamont advice in any case, he might be here or in #ubuntu-devel
<proppy> norsetto: proppy@nekun:/usr/src/umount-test$ zgrep "nfs-common" usr/share/man/man8/mount.8.gz
<proppy> man page (nfs-common package must be installed).
<persia> I'd definitely ask.  While this is an elegant solution, direct patching may be preferred.
<proppy> lamont: ping
<proppy> norsetto: persia: thanks
<persia> proppy: Just to be clear, asking isn't always preferred, but in the case where the Debian maintainer is active in Ubuntu, it's generally nicer.
<lamont> proppy: mount manpage needs lots of love
<lamont> anyway, what's the actual content behind your ping?
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, ping
<Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<lamont> Hobbsee: if that's an xchat module, I want it
<norsetto> lamont: no, its her playing around .... devious Hobbsee
<proppy> lamont: Are you up reviewing my debdiff to bug #154399 (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399)
<proppy> ?
<persia> norsetto: There are a couple scripts with that text floating about...
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, heh me too
<lamont> proppy: which version was the bug complaining about?
 * tuxmaniac googles
<pochu> lamont: http://dannf.org/src/contentlessping.py
<tuxmaniac> pochu, danke
<lamont> pochu: that'd be the guy
<tuxmaniac> oops thanks
<proppy> lamont: I've updated the bug description https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399
<proppy> lamont: util-linux 2.13
<lamont> right.
<lamont> proppy: so.  given that we're unchanged from upstream... what did nfs-utils do upstream?
<lamont> note that nfs-common is part of the nfs-utils source package...
<lamont> and hence the upstream note
<proppy> lamont: this indication is only relevent for ubuntu or debian I guess
<proppy> lamont: the package layout may be completly different on another plateform distribution
<lamont> right.  so it's a debian-and-derivatives bug
<proppy> lamont: that's why upstream is referring to the source package I guess
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: pong
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, hi and can I pm you?
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: yeah.
<proppy> lamont: so I need to add some if debian around this ?
<lamont> proppy: nah - It'll just be one of those diffs that I don't push upstream
<proppy> lamont: but it seems wierd to me, since the rules is to be exectued on a debian and derivative plateform
<lamont> and no, it won't be fixed in rules.
<lamont> it'll be fixed in mount/mount.8
<proppy> ok, I started to fix it in rules, cause I've seen similar stuff done already in rules
<proppy> 	perl -pi.bak -e 's/agetty/getty/g' debian/util-linux/usr/share/man/man8/getty.8
<proppy> lamont:
<lamont> ew
<proppy> (which is failing when building btw: Can't open debian/util-linux/usr/share/man/man8/getty.8: No such file or directory)
<lamont> OTOH, that's renaming a binary - which is an ugly fork of the manpage.  This is one line
<proppy> OTOH ?
<lamont> on the other hand
<norsetto> on the other hand ....
<proppy> ok
<proppy> ubotu is back !
<norsetto> yes! les flood it again!!
<proppy> the binary seems renamed after the perl line is called, but I guess this is to be reported in another bug
<lamont> so while we're in the area... what provides cifs-mount?
<slangasek> "cifs-mount"?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is back ! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<lamont> smbfs
<proppy> proppy@nekun:/usr/src/util-linux-2.13$ sudo apt-get install apt-file
<lamont> it's the cifs-mount package, providing mount.cifs
<lamont> --> smbfs
<slangasek> so where is there a cifs-mount package?  or is that the error?
<persia> !back is Hurray, I've rejoined the channel.  Too many bugs :)
<proppy> lamont: so you advice that I change the mount.8 file directly ?
<norsetto> !back
<proppy> lamont: letme generate another debdiff
<persia> norsetto: It has to go through the moderation queue...
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about back - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> !back is <reply>Hurray, I've rejoined the channel.  Too many bugs :)
<norsetto> !lame-excuse-for-not-doing-its-work
<Hobbsee> !ping
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
<persia> ubotu is back!
<Hobbsee> ah, this one remembers me
<Hobbsee> good
<ubotu> pong
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is back! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
 * lamont struggles to remember the syntax for closing LP bugs...
<lamont> LP#nnnnnn?  does it need Closes: in front o fit?
<norsetto> I like that line, I wonder if thats with Arnold voice
<norsetto> lamont (LP: #nnnnn) would do
<persia> lamont: No.  The parsing routine just checks for "LP" and "#nnnnn"
<lamont> thanks.
 * lamont fixes the commit log
<lamont> proppy: go ahead and mark the bug pending
<lamont> actually, it's fix-committe
<lamont> d
<norsetto> lamont: fix committed?
<proppy> lamont: I can't remember either, I've just copied the previous ubuntu line syntax :)
<lamont> proppy: if I was involved, that line's syntax is always suspect.
<proppy> lamont: :)
<lamont> so it'll be in -9ubuntu1, along with a bunch of other fixes from upstream and such
<norsetto> ubotu is back !
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is back ! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<norsetto> ubotu: you swine
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about you swine - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<proppy> lamont: you mean 'In progress' ?
<lamont> fix-committed
<lamont> it's in the vcs
<proppy> oh ok you've already fixed it ?
<lamont> yeah
<proppy> I don't have to generate another debdiff so :)
<lamont> -man page (cifs-mount package must be installed).
<lamont> +man page (smbfs package must be installed).
<lamont> -man page (nfs-utils package must be installed).
<lamont> +man page (nfs-common package must be installed).
<lamont> commit 38f43d067202fef44998d7a252d80238878058e9
<lamont> Author: LaMont Jones <lamont@debian.org>
<lamont> Date:   Fri Oct 19 10:48:14 2007 -0600
<lamont>     mount.8:  Make package references be the actual binary package name in the distro.  LP: #154399
<lamont>     
<lamont>     Signed-off-by: LaMont Jones <lamont@debian.org>
<proppy> bug status changed :)
<proppy> lamont: where is this source control ?
 * lamont pushes the fix to the publicly reachable tree.
<lamont> git clone git.debian.org:~lamont/util-linux.git
<lamont> I think/
<lamont> XS-Vcs-Browser: http://git.debian.org/?p=users/lamont/util-linux.git
<lamont> XS-Vcs-Git: git://git.debian.org/~lamont/util-linux.git
<lamont> so that would be git clone git://git.debian.org/~lamont/util-linux.git
<lamont> ATM it's only present in the stable/v2.13 branch
<lamont> sometime soonish I'll merge that onto the ubuntu-stable/v2.13, master, and ubuntu branches
<proppy> do you maintain separate branche for each debian derivative ?
<lamont> I maintain an ubuntu branch, since it has differences that I can't merge into the build stream.
<lamont> postfix, otoh, just has a debian/rules taht does the right thing on both
<norsetto> persia: have you got the link to the meeting log? I lost it somehow
<norsetto> persia: the mentoring meeting
<persia> norsetto: Looking.  I had a local log, but damaged it drafting the summary :)
<proppy>  git (GNU Interactive Tools) is a set of interactive text-mode tools,
<proppy> oops wront package
<norsetto> persia: ok, welcome in the club :-)
<lamont> proppy: you want git-core
<norsetto> proppy: git-core if I remember correctly
<lamont> and then about 20 seconds into it, you'll want the gitk package too
<lamont> util-linux has different build-depends on debian and ubuntu, so I can't fully merge the source.
<persia> norsetto: Maybe in http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ ?
<proppy> lamont: there is similar issue on another package norsetto now :)
<proppy> s/now/knows
<lamont> it's not entirely bad.  it's a very small diff, and git deals with the merges quite well.  although i am in the market for a hook script that knows how to merge debian/changelog "correctly"
<slangasek> so is half the planet :)
<norsetto> persia: not very helpful: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071019_1405.html !?
<proppy> poker-network upstream for example, shit control for separate distribution, in its source package
<proppy> like control.gutsy control.dapper etc
<norsetto> proppy: ship?
<proppy> the cvs approach seems more pratical
<proppy> norsetto: yep :)
<lamont> slangasek: let me know when you get that done.
<proppy> s/shit/ship
<persia> norsetto: That would be it.  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/10/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html might contain useful buffer at the ends.
<lamont> slangasek: I mean, now that we released, you don't have anything to do, right? ;-)
 * norsetto wonders why this kind of slip happens frequently with poker-network
<proppy> norsetto: :)
<proppy> norsetto: I'm very happy that it shows up in gutsy universe btw
<proppy> norsetto: are you up for a hand or two ?
<proppy> norsetto: thanks a lot for having taking care of it
<lamont> cvs is pain. avoid it at all costs.
<lamont> bzr or git is what you want.
<proppy> lamont: I meaned the vcs approach
<norsetto> how can anyone be so dumb ... howfixbadubuntu is now known as ubuntushit
<persia> VCS FTW
<proppy> lamont: instead of having separate file
<proppy> lamont: what about mercurial :)
<proppy> norsetto: dozo apt-get install python-poker2d
<lamont> proppy: it depends... if I can make one source package that can be synced from debian to ubuntu, and deal with it all in debian/rules, that's a win.  even if there are multiple files that are derived from each other.
<slangasek> lamont: I'm very careful about the sort of impossible things I agree to do
<lamont> proppy: never saw a need for mercurial. then again, I had git. :)
<lamont> slangasek: actually, it's a trivial problem...  handle each individual version as a separate entry to merge (99.99% no-conflict), and when file 2 has added version X and file 3 has added version Y, then the merge results in version 2 and 3 added.  you get to choose whether date or version number is the deciding factor on order.
<proppy> lamont: yep but then it's up to the ubuntu maintainer to do the correct mv before building
<proppy> lamont: and then generate a ubuntu1 version
<lamont> proppy: no. you do that in rules, (or since it's control, you do it in version-control)
<lamont> alternatively, you make it so that the source package info is identical, and process control.in in rules to do the build correctly.
<proppy> lamont: mmm I see
<lamont> if the build-deps are diff, then you have issues.  if it's just content of the binary-package entries, then it's _doable_.  albeit ugly as sin
<proppy> lamont: while I find the remote vcs is handy, I think it's great to have all you need in the source package
<lamont> (stanza 1 of debian/control must be identical to get away with merging it into one package)
<lamont> git isn't remote.
<proppy> lamont: you mean you put your .git repo in the source package ?
<proppy> lamont: sounds great
<lamont> on my laptop, off line from the net, I just work away committing as I go.  when I get back online, then I push my changes to $someotherrepository
<lamont> I put a pointer to the git repo in the source package.  bloat is evil
<proppy> lamont: yep same with mercurial, but I never though about shipping a repository in a package
<lamont> and, near as I can tell, multi-layer quilt series (ala debian kernel packaging) is a fine existence proof of people implimenting a VCS in their source package.  such a shame.
<lamont> proppy: see debian/control in util-linux (or any of my other packages, for that matter) - those two lines will get you squawkage when they say 'apt-get source', at least on gutsy and later
<proppy> lamont: nice
<proppy> lamont: I use mercurial for generate patch, then I use a patch system to apply them
<lamont> I was using dpatch before I moved everything into git.  patch systems are the suck
<proppy> lamont: even when using git you still need to get your extracted patch applied right ?
<proppy> lamont: when your change are outside debian/ directory ?
<lamont> if you clone that and hop on the ubuntu-stable/v2.13, you're looking at the patched source
<proppy> lamont: how do you get them applied
<lamont> I get them applied with "git commit". :-)
<proppy> lamont: so you build depend upon git ?
<lamont> and if I need to significantly modify one of my patches, then I go back to the upstream branch, create a new branch, do the modified patch, and pull that onto my master (debian) branch.
<lamont> no
<proppy> lamont: or is you source package is the already patched source ?
<lamont> I use git,.
<lamont> and the source on the branch is already patched.
<lamont> and git is my patch management software.
<lamont> because git actually does merges in a sane way.  iz life changing
<proppy> so you have a diff.gz that do have change outside of debian directory
<lamont> whole lots of changes
<proppy> but that's fine as long as you've got the git repo linked
<proppy> and you can easily extract patch one by one
<lamont> zgrep ^+++ /usr/local/src/Packages/util-linux/util-linux_2.13-8.diff.gz | grep -v debian/ | wc
<lamont>      83     166    3082
<lamont> git-format-patch and give it the start and end.
<lamont> if a patch needs to be modified, and I can be bothered, then I get to do the "new branch, fix patch, merge" trick
<lamont> where "fix patch" either means branching from somewhere without the patch, or doing an initial commit that reverses the patch, so that the next commit is the patch-in-toto.
<lamont> en toto?
<proppy> how do you rembember which revision where involve in which patch ?
<lamont> gitk
<proppy> lamont: do you manage to keep a patch / a changeset 1 to 1 association ?
<lamont> since git is just a directory tree of patchsets
<lamont> generally the patches are a complete fix
<proppy> there may be more than one patchsets involved in one debian revision
<lamont> sometimes it's 'all the patches from this branch'
<lamont> exactly
<lamont> and yes, that's completely inobvious from diff.gz
<lamont> "see the git repository"
<proppy> I see
<proppy> do you find it bloatty to ship the git repository within the diff.gz ? :)
<lamont> well, if one were to uuencode the binary data under .git, I suppose one could deliver .git in the diff.gz
<lamont> I deliver a pointer to where one can find the git repository.
<lamont> just like linux-source-2.6.22 in ubuntu, for example.
<proppy> yep, that's sound a clever approach :)
<lamont> it's more one of "see my (published) git repository."  it's not in the source package, because it doesn't belong there
<proppy> lamont: thanks a lot for explaining me all that stuff
<slangasek> lamont: downside: an apt repo is not sufficient to let folks usefully work on the package
<lamont> slangasek: very true.
<lamont> well...
<lamont> depends on what they're doing.
<lamont> developing a new patch? sure is.
<slangasek> well, at least - there are limits to how well they can prepare new packages that might be integrated later
<lamont> merging a new upstream?  wth aren't you starting with the actual repository where you want to publish the result?
<slangasek> lamont: say an NMU that needs to add multiple patches
<lamont> when I fetch the source apt (or dpkg-soruce...) tells me that I probably want to go grab the current version from VCS, and I'd be a fool not to do that.
<proppy> slangasek: they can clone the git repository and work on their own patchset ?
<slangasek> proppy: sure they can; that doesn't invalidate my point
<lamont> worst case, if I know what VCS they're using, I can at least do an initial import of that into $VCS on my box, and present them with a mergable branch when I'm done
<slangasek> lamont: hmm, under what circumstances does dpkg-source tell you about VCS availability?
<lamont> slangasek: where you run into trouble is if you're (1) unwilling to use $VCS and can't convert upstream to your favorite, or (2) managed to get offline without it
<lamont> slangasek: on gutsy, say apt-get source util-linux
<lamont> and read the output
<slangasek> proppy: I'm not saying this point is such a glaring bug that folks shouldn't do what lamont does, I'm just pointing out a limitation
<slangasek> lamont: huh, ok
<lamont> Reading state information... Done
<lamont> NOTICE: 'util-linux' packaging is maintained in the 'Git' version control system at:
<lamont> git://git.debian.org/~lamont/util-linux.git
<lamont> Need to get 3968kB of source archives.
<lamont> dunno if sid has that or not
<proppy> slangasek: I see sorry for missunderstanding
<lamont> slangasek: I discovered it when I fetched source from gutsy to do a bug fix, and it bitched at me.
<lamont> so then I added it to all my sources.
<proppy> lamont: that would be nice if apt-get source fetched it
<lamont> as part of finalizing the migration to git
<lamont> proppy: apt-get wasn't told to fetch it.  it's entirely possible that you want _THIS_ version of the source.
<lamont> probable, even
<slangasek> proppy: there's also the ETOOMANYVCS problem, where there are at least 4 VCSes actively used in this fashion and very few developers are going to have the time to gain fluency in all of them
<proppy> lamont: if there were a link between the package number+revision and the git revision he would be able to do it
<lamont> slangasek: yeah.  my git migration was from cvs, baz, and bzr
<proppy> slangasek: I bet if you know one you can use them all
<lamont> slangasek: there's a diff between fluency and "tolerable literacy"
<slangasek> lamont: which makes it convenient for you and for developers who work on a strict subset of your packages, doesn't help people who are concerned about contributing across the spectrum :)
<lamont> proppy: there's a learning curve on each of them.
<slangasek> lamont: I confess to have not bothered learning any of the distributed VCSes until starting work for Canonical
<lamont> slangasek: canonical is what caused me to have packages in baz and bzr
<lamont> git was from working on kernel stuff
<proppy> lamont: I used mercurial for a bit, and bzr is not that different
<lamont> my current reaction to an svn tree is to use git-svn import and be done with it.
<lamont> and my reaction to cvs is to ask for ,v files and convert them.
<slangasek> convert them how?
<lamont> parsecvs package.  keithp is a god
<proppy> keithp like in mesa ?
<slangasek> haha, I'll have to call him that next time I see him
<lamont> the problem with cvs is that it doesn't manage patchsets: it manages a set of files which have changes which are probably linked, and good luck with that
<proppy> lamont: same with svn
<slangasek> I can't wait to see what kind of face he makes at being labelled in terms of mesa
<lamont> proppy: the X god, who is a git proponent
<lamont> hehe
<lamont> proppy: ISTR svn manages patchesets
<proppy> ISTR ?
<slangasek> yes, svn records revisions atomically on a repo-wide basis
<slangasek> so, "patchset"
<proppy> lamont: svn looks like more a filesystem that a changeset manager to be, but I may be wrong
<lamont> proppy: I seem to recall
<slangasek> but it's not distributed, and people really hate the branch/tag handling
<lamont> svn is designed to be "cvs done right" which means they made many of the same stupid decisions that cvs did, because they're using that model.
<lamont> slangasek: and merging is still a multi-hour ordeal
<slangasek> depends on what you're merging, but yes, it's much more manual
<proppy> slangasek: yep many people seems to arg it don't tag a branch with the origin branchpoint
<lamont> git and bzr (and ISTR mercurial) keep track of patchsets directly, and therefore can merge in a more sane manner that causes less pain.
<lamont> slangasek: A and B both take changes from C onto their branch.  Now merge A and B back onto the trunk.  make sure that C's changes were pervasive.  have a nice week.
<lamont> s/take changes from/merge/
<lamont> the svn solution is to make sure that your branch is merged first.
<norsetto> anyone willing to test rpmstrap from the gutsy-proposed archive? proppy?
<proppy> norsetto: what is rpmstrap ?
<proppy> slangasek: but there is addon out, that help svn branch management IIRC
<norsetto> proppy: its a script to create a bootstrap for non-debian distros (ala debootstrap)
<proppy> hu sounds nice
<norsetto> proppy: fedora, centos, etc. all those rpm based
<proppy> norsetto: my connection is very laggy atm, and I'll have to go in 15min, so I might not be the best candidate right now
<proppy> norsetto: but np tomorrow
<proppy> lamont: slangasek: thanks for the chat
<norsetto> proppy: sure, if you could it would be nice, you have to add gutsy-proposed to sources.list and leave feedback to bug 64032
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64032
<lamont> slangasek: we should have these lively discussions more often
<norsetto> proppy: its a good chance for you to check out about SRU ;-)
<slangasek> lamont: not too much more often, lest I find myself never getting work done :)
<lamont> heh
<geser> hmm, doesn't LP list uploads to -proposed in the publishing history anymore?
<norsetto> geser: well, the acceptance email was sent to gutsy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
<blueyed> If a bug is fixed in Debian unstable already and there are no Ubuntu changes, it will get fixed by syncing, correct?
<geser> yes
<blueyed> geser: And any Ubuntu changes to gutsy-updates would get ignored correctly, yes?
<geser> packages will be automatically synced when they don't have a ubuntu or build suffix until DebianImportFreeze
<geser> yes, as hardy starts as a copy of gutsy
<ScottK> norsetto_limbo: If you could put a test procedure (do the following steps to see if the bug is fixed) in your rpmstrap SRU, that's be very helpful in getting it tested.
<eolo999> norsetto_limbo: hi, could you address me to python team related materials?
<lamont> slangasek: (after some thought during lunch...) given the variety of different patch (dpatch, quilt, etc) and build (dbs, cdbs, etc)  systems in debian packages, I'm not particularly pesuaded by arguments about how it's bad to make someone actually become semi-literate in an actual VCS.
 * lamont has to take a walk across site to reboot a machine and hook up the serial console.
<lamont> sigh
<lamont> bbiab
<norsetto> ScottK: I just thought they could try what the reporter tested in comment #4, which I did myself in comment #17
<ScottK> norsetto: It's a lot of comments in the history.
<norsetto> eolo999: still around?
<ScottK> Maybe a link to the relevant comment at the end.
<eolo999> norsetto: yes, but the show is beginning...
<slangasek> lamont: yes, but that's why I support eliminating dbs and dpatch >:)
<norsetto> eolo999: ah, on the stage tonight ... (or near it anyhow)
<lamont> slangasek: agreed
<lamont> whereas I'm in favor of eliminating quilt as well. :-)
<slangasek> pff
<norsetto> eolo999: you mean the debian python policy?
<eolo999> norsetto: all the stuff you suggest me to read...
<norsetto> eolo999: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<norsetto> eolo999: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<norsetto> eolo999: I assume you know the basics of packaging already? Otherwise let me know, let me know if you need help too
<eolo999> norsetto: don't remember now but i already know where ti find materials.
<eolo999> norsetto: thx anyway
<norsetto> eolo999: np, come back here when you have some time to spare
<eolo999> think i'll be back later, when i get home.
<norsetto> eolo999: and as we say, in the whale's arse ......
<eolo999> hope it doesn't shit
<norsetto> heheh
<norsetto> funny people the italians .....
<eolo999> ok bye
<norsetto> oh $deity, its red hot in #ubuntu-bugs
<lamont> norsetto: is that the new new policy or the old new policy?
 * lamont decides to quit trolling
<norsetto> lamont: he, you tell me, you guys change it more often than a woman his dress
<norsetto> well, make it her dress
<lamont> it was funnier as 'his'. :-)
<norsetto> lamont: why are you always right ....
<lamont> norsetto: "because I say so." :-)
<lamont> IOW, by definition.
<propeat> slangasek: what is dbs ?
<propeat> =cdbs ?
<azeem> no
<azeem> it's a mix of dpatch and tarball-in-source
<azeem> predates most of the other systems, and is pretty obsolete today
<propeat> let's google/check tarball-in-source, as I don't know what it is as well
<bddebian> tarball in source is the suXX0r
<propeat> bddebian: so I don't really need to know what it is ? (btw google doesn't help me)
<bddebian> proppy: Well a few packages do still use it (stk for example) but I hate it
<norsetto> yeah, I stumbled in one too, and found a nice bug in cdbs-edit-patch too
<azeem> proppy: coreutils
<norsetto> sylpheed was the package
<azeem> (at least in Debian)
<proppy> waaaaa
 * proppy it's my first time seeing a tarball-in-source
<proppy> may I ask "why?"
<proppy> Is this a way to 'assert' by structure, that there is no change outside debian/ directory ?
<slangasek> it does a couple of things. it lets you bundle multiple upstream tarballs in a single source package; it confines all changes to the debian directory, yes; it provides a means of ensuring any local edits can be rolled into a patch after the fact; and it lets you have a ./debian/rules clean target of "rm -rf $srcdir".
<slangasek> none of these are persuasive to me. :)
<norsetto> asisak: ping
<lamont> slangasek: the tarball-in-source-package is generally done so that you don't get the bug filed that your clean target leaves the source in a different state than when it was unpacked.
<slangasek> yes
<proppy> slangasek: thanks for clearing that up
<azeem> you can get around most of that by using a seperate build-dir, usually
<azeem> well, ok
<azeem> ...unless you need to patch the upstream build system or its broken
<lamont> azeem: or better yet: don't modify the sources in the unpacked source. :0)
<slangasek> lamont: if your upstream ships .mo files in the tarball, your clean target is going to involve rm -f something
<lamont> right
<lamont> heh.  so far, it's just been vim-runtime vs whatever for dist-upgrade-pain
<lamont> mdadm: /dev/sda5 does not appear to be an md device
<lamont> hrm.
<ScottK> lamont: Not certain, but IIRC I got that on a server upgrade I did around beta time and it wasn't nearly as ominous as it sounds.
<lamont> ScottK: yeah - no arrays on the machine at alll
<lamont> this is a dapper/hppa -> gutsy/hppa upgrade
<ScottK> Ah.  Mind the tty bug then (assuming it applies to hppa).
<lamont> right
<ScottK> I did a dapper/i386 -> gutsy/i386 and got there (modulo no working ttys), but had to remove ubuntu-minimal in the process.
<lamont> wow.
<lamont> apt-get install udev -> does nothing
<lamont> apt-get --purge install udev libdevmapper1.02- libdevmapper1.01- on the other hand...
<lamont> ScottK: it's always especially fun when you get to type: Yes, do as I say!
<lamont> for values of "fun" that are very scary
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> I did mine because I had a new hard drive and a Dapper install CD was all I had handy.  I said to myself, what the heck.  It'll be a learning experience.
<lamont> interesting... I have a /etc/event.d/ttyS0
<ScottK> That puts you well ahead of i386 then.
<nxvl> dget *.dsc is like apt-get source, did't it?
<ScottK> nxvl: dget -x yes.
<nxvl> -x
<nxvl> thnx
<nxvl> i was forgeting it
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> congrats to the release!
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<nxvl> when making " dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot" im getting "gpg: skipped "Nicolas ValcÃ¡rcel <nvalcarcel@gmail.com>": secret key not available"
<nxvl> but it hasn't ask me for mi passphrase
<ajmitch> because that may not be an exact match with your gpg key
<ajmitch> just pass the keyid to dpkg-buildpackage, eg -k5921b5d8
<ajmitch> using your own one, of course :)
<imbrandon> moins all
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<sistpoty> hi imbrandon
<nxvl> ajmitch: thnx
<nxvl> ajmitch: and it getting mi name from where, the changelog?
<ajmitch> yes
<nxvl> thnx
<ajmitch> not sure if the accented characters are allowed there
<sistpoty> ajmitch: do you know the details what it checks where? because I always need to use debsign -k0x8d7fca91, though I believe I tried telling it to use that key by various means (and I'm no perl hero, so I gave up looking at the code *g*)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: nope :)
<sistpoty> damn *g*
<nxvl> ok, fixed
<nxvl> ajmitch: thnx
<siretart> huh? hardy already open?
<imbrandon> it is ?
 * siretart just got a build failiure notification from lp
<ajmitch> sure, why wouldn't it be? :)
<imbrandon> no toolchain ?
<siretart> ah, 'pre-release freeze)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: look at the list of latest uploads on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy
<siretart> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wpasupplicant/0.6.0+0.5.8-0ubuntu1/+build/412277
<siretart> wow. intresting failiure :)
<ajmitch> though I'm not sure why things like wpasupplicant are being built
<imbrandon> wtf is IceTea java ?
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> latest sun java code
<ajmitch> except with some small modifications that mean that it must be renamed
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<imbrandon> ahh
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> weekend, yay! :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> long weekend, yay!
 * ajmitch has monday off
<siretart> finally
<siretart> weekend
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> long week?
<sistpoty> short one for me, got to go to visit a family party of my gf from tomorrow, 10am to somewhen late sunday I guess *g*
<ScottK> siretart: I'm pretty sure they're still playing with tool chain.
<sistpoty> anyone on hardy yet?
<sistpoty> come on, now would be the perfect time to show off (as I guess not much can be broken yet) and then not upgrade for a month or so *g*
<jussio1> sistpoty: are you?
<sistpoty> jussio1: not yet... but I guess I'll start a dist-upgrade now (and first see what gets drawn in)
<jussio1> lol. let us know. :)
<sistpoty> always remember, ask on irc first in the first (few?) month before upgrading from a known good state *g*
 * siretart is just freeing some space for a new virtualbox instance
 * ajmitch upgrades
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> haha
 * sistpoty still downloads newest gutsy *indices*... damn bandwith
<sistpoty> breezy-changes + rules deleted, hooray :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> yea i need to go through all my mail and mailing subscriptions
 * ajmitch should probably cut out at least half of them
<sistpoty> why are filter rules never up to date? *g*
<sistpoty> 15,3kB/s... ubuntu sucks (well, I guess rather my isp, which reduced my bandwith and I still didn't phone the company yet)
<siretart> sistpoty: nefkom?
<sistpoty> siretart: yep... dsl went out, and the technician made it temporarily work again by reducing my bandwith. better than nothing though :)
<siretart> sistpoty: try setting the interface to the modem from 100mbit to 10mbit
<sistpoty> siretart: how could this help? it was actually the dsl line that was down (dsl light flashing) in the first place?
<siretart> sistpoty: nefkom dsl modems are known to die like flies. they have a common problem that some capacitor in the modem breaks
<sistpoty> siretart: ah ok, will try that, thanks
<siretart> sistpoty: in a way that it fails to keep the connection at 100mbit, but manages to keep at 10mbit
<siretart> I know of at least 2 other persons (beside me) who were hit by excatly this problem. however, nefkom is replacing the modems for free
<sistpoty> cool
<sistpoty> hm.. "ifconfig vlan1 media type 10BaseT" didn't seem to have an effect... neither in dmesg nor on my bandwith *g*
<sistpoty> <- stupid when it comes to setting an interface to 10Mbit *g*
<nixternal> with the MC poll, you can only vote for one? ie. only one is going to become a MC member?
<sistpoty> nixternal: no, there are two slots and two candidates. So the poll is to accept or reject a proposed member
<nixternal> I like both damnit! going to have to spin the bottle...oh wait, wrong game, eenie meenie miney moe, catch a MOTU by his code, if he hollers let him go, eenie meenie miney moe!
<nixternal> OK, great
<sistpoty> maybe I should have made this more clear (so I'm not too sure when a candidate is accepted or rejected, maybe > or < 50%)
<sistpoty> s/so/though/
<sistpoty> asac: mind to give some feedback to gnomefreak's motu application on the motu council list?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: it's a confirmation, so I imagine that more yes votes than no
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yes, that's what I *assume* as well ;)
<ian_brasil> ola ...i am getting an error deb-data-member-wrongly-compressed using debuild ...any idea what this might be...
<ian_brasil> using and building for gutsy
<slangasek> ian_brasil: do you mean an error when running lintian, perhaps?
<ian_brasil> sorry...yes that is what i meant
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> well, "lintian -I" will give you information about what the error means
<slangasek> but at a guess, the source of the error is that your .deb is built using bz2 compression, and the version of lintian you're using to check doesn't recognize that as valid?
<ian_brasil> it is using bz2 ...you are correct
<slangasek> right. so that's not truly an error in your package, it's a bug in this version of lintian (or it's the wrong version of lintian) for not knowing that bz2 is acceptable
<sistpoty> ian_brasil: where do you get see the error? maybe on revu?
<ian_brasil> no just running debuild when it calls lintian...it seems intermittent as I have made it go away by running dh_make in a new directory...but now it has returned
<ian_brasil> i mean creating the deb again by copying the orig.tar.gz into a new directory and running dh_make
<sistpoty> ian_brasil: ah, ok, then what slangasek wrote ;)
<ian_brasil> I could submit the bug but want to make sure it is not something I am doing first...the deb creates and installs fine
<sistpoty> ian_brasil: what version are you running... gutsy and checking a source package from gutsy?
<sistpoty> ian_brasil: if so, it's a bug in lintian, but I guess one that won't get a too high priority ;)
<ian_brasil> i am on gutsy and it is a source package I created that i want to put in my PPA
<slangasek> fwiw, this is a difference in the format of binary .debs accepted by Debian vs. Ubuntu, and there's no mention in the Ubuntu lintian changelog of an override for this, so that explains the presence of the bug
<sistpoty> geser: want to give some feedback to fernando's application on the mc-list? (and since you're nominated for MC, maybe you have some questions to ask as well?)
<sistpoty> (just trying to not leave too much backlog once the polls are over *g*
 * ian_brasil will use linda instead ;)
<sistpoty> ian_brasil: then you can of course always blame StevenK *g*
<imbrandon> lol
<geser> bah, LP timeouts on ~lpnick/+packages :(
<ian_brasil> it is linda clean...looks like its a bug then
<sistpoty> geser: I guess you're using edge? try the stable version ;)
<imbrandon> man i finaly got Ubuntu to install on one of my xboxes, time to convert the cluster now, sounds like a good "weekend waiting for hardy to open" project
<sistpoty> geser: (and bug reported already, as well as that stable shows ppa uploads without differentation as well)
<imbrandon> int main() {
<imbrandon> execlp( "login", "login", "-f", "brandon", 0);
<imbrandon> }
<imbrandon> err
<asac> sistpoty: afaik gnomefreaks mail was not ment as an application. He wanted to get info how to get the motu process started. I sent him to the motu reception for now.
<sistpoty> asac: ok, then I misread it (to mean both). thanks!
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<sistpoty> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey sistpoty.
<TheMuso>  Looking forward to UDS?
<sistpoty> TheMuso: of course!
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<ian_brasil> i reported this lintian error then as bug #154616 on launchpad
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 154616 in lintian "A .deb is built using bz2 compression using debuild and the version of lintian with gutsy doesn't recognize that as valid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154616
<sistpoty> thanks ian_brasil
<ian_brasil> no problem
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<eolo999> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-20
<sistpoty> bddebian: could you please give some feedback to fernando's application for motu on the MC list?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: time to grill slangasek *g*
<sistpoty> slangasek: so my question to you is: I want to package FAUmachine, which needs one rom found in etherboot. Is it ok to build-depend on etherboot and simply copy/gunzip the rom during building or would this get rejected, as no source of etherboot would be in the source-package of FAUmachine?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: hah, sure
<slangasek> sistpoty: interesting question.  I'm always of the opinion that it's better to not carry around duplicate copies of source code when it's not necessary; and there would be nothing unique in this case of having part of the "source" be included in a package that you build-depend on (header packages are a good example of this, particularly header packages for heavily-templated C++ libraries).
<bddebian> sistpoty: Hmm, I'm not on that list :-)
<slangasek> sistpoty: so I would say that's ok, though it would be better for security support if FAUmachine could simply depend on a suitable package, to avoid code duplication in binary packages too
<slangasek> sistpoty: please let me know if my first line managed to get cut off, or if I've overlooked some rejections FAQ that applies here.. :)
<sistpoty> slangasek: no, that actually was a real question (and I'm aiming at debian in the first place :P)
<slangasek> ok then. :)
<sistpoty> slangasek: well, depending on etherboot is no problem (but unneeded for the first case), however actually using the gzipped images is tougher, since that would mean to add gunzip code to FAUmachine
<slangasek> sure
<LaserJock_> evening MOTU Land
 * slangasek moos
<LaserJock_> hi slangasek
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock_
<LaserJock_> I figured you'd be recovering from the release still
<LaserJock_> sistpoty: hi!
<LaserJock_> how's Launchpad treating everybody?
<TheMuso> Hey LaserJock_.
<mrfantastic> hello
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: don't know if you saw, but somebody asked about bug #93859 in -devel
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93859 in linux-source-2.6.20 "[Feisty] Very low volume on Toshiba satellite a100-155" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/93859
<ajmitch> *finally* the OOM killer worked
<mrfantastic> can anyone help me with my wifi problem?
<sistpoty> bddebian: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/motu-council <- there you are ;) (or just reply to it starting a new thread)
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: I saw you talking to someone about audio, but I didn't read scrollback.
<sistpoty> LaserJock_: LP made me file more bug reports this week than ever before... but I'm still alive :P
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Its well known that the hda-intel module is under constant development due to many notebooks using that chip these days, all with having different quirks.
<sistpoty> (bug reports against LP)
<TheMuso> My expertise is not kernel alsa drivers.
<LaserJock_> sistpoty: I saw a few. Anything I should know about specifically?
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: ok, well, it might be nice if a dev left a comment perhaps. It's not fun to have 2 releases worth of "me too"s and "this is how I fixed it" and no response from devs
<LaserJock_> I briefly skimmed the comments and didn't recognize any names
<LaserJock_> mrfantastic: this is really a support channel, did you try #ubuntu?
<LaserJock_> *isn't rather
<mrfantastic> i have a dlink dwl g630...its got a acx111 chipset...7.04 ran my card fine until i upgraded to 7.10.  ubuntu still detects but no activity
<mrfantastic> i tried that channel
<mrfantastic> but no one helped
<LaserJock_> mrfantastic: is it USB?
<mrfantastic> cardbus
<sistpoty> LaserJock_: well, not too sure, I guess making me file a bunch of reports in a week vs. the whole time prior to it is concerning... apart from that I guess bug #135669 is evil for MC business, but can be worked around
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135669 in soyuz "PPA uploads are showing up on lp.net/~user/+packages" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135669
<mrfantastic> what i did before was use ndis and install the windows driver
<mrfantastic> that worked fine in 7.04
<LaserJock_> sistpoty: I think I've already got that one on my list
<sistpoty> cool
<sistpoty> yay, I should read my mails a second time after writing, especially if I'm doing other stuff while writing *g*
<LaserJock_> mrfantastic: you might ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<LaserJock_> sistpoty: yes, that does happen
<LaserJock_> slangasek: I wonder if you've got any ideas for MOTU
<mrfantastic> thanks ill check it out
<mrfantastic> 1300 users in the ubuntu channel and no even gave me that much
<ajmitch> slangasek: I'd be very interested to hear tham, as I get the impression that you aren't too happy with some of the MOTU work at times
<LaserJock_> mrfantastic: well, it's a start anyway. I heard of a problem with acx* USB, but not cardbus
<sistpoty> mrfantastic: maybe you could spread the word?
<slangasek> ajmitch: er?  there have been specific occasions where I've been unhappy with something a MOTU has done; but there've also been plenty of specific occasions where I've been unhappy with something a Debian maintainer has done
<mrfantastic> what was the problem with USB maybe i can try that method
<sistpoty> (actually I meant to spread the word of raising a question on launchpad)
<ajmitch> slangasek: right, I said 'at times', we can probably discuss various procedural things on list
<LaserJock_> mrfantastic: there wasn't a solution, it was just a complaint
<mrfantastic> oh
<mrfantastic> thanks anyway
<LaserJock_> mrfantastic: sorry I'm not much help :/
<slangasek> LaserJock_: ideas for MOTU> I have ideas about how I would like to see MOTU work in general that I think would be of long-term benefit (i.e., closer cooperation with Debian maintainers), but currently no concrete ideas of how to get there, nor am I so arrogant to think everyone should/will start working a certain way just because I think it's best
<LaserJock_> slangasek: I'm interested in your ideas
 * TheMuso is likewise.
<sistpoty> thanks bddebian!
<LaserJock_> but I understand how it's easy to want things to be better, but much harder to actually get something going
<slangasek> LaserJock_: well, I could say that I think all MOTUs should consider entering the Debian NM queue, but that doesn't mean everyone's interested in doing so :)
<sistpoty> or has the time even :P
<LaserJock_> slangasek: I am!!
<LaserJock_> well, the Debian Maintainer queue
<LaserJock_> I don't want to be a DD
<sistpoty> LaserJock_: damn, you were approved for motu about my time? So it seems that I'm the one who'll enter nm last :P
<bddebian> slangasek: Yes because they are all so friendly and helpful :-)
<bddebian> sistpoty: NP
<slangasek> given that MOTUs are charged with the work of merging changes between Debian and universe, I don't doubt that being in a position to NMU packages in Debian would make maintainers a little more receptive to suggested changes
<LaserJock_> that makes some sense
<slangasek> which would in the long term make the merge work a bit easier :)
<LaserJock_> as long as it's not "Ubuntu is taking over my package, ^#*($*"
<bddebian> *cough*
<TheMuso> The packages I take care of, I tend to push all changes upstream if I can.
<slangasek> LaserJock_: see, if you're a DD first, that doesn't matter ;)
<LaserJock_> slangasek: sure
<bddebian> LaserJock_: Yeah, jump on that DD fast track.. ;-P
<LaserJock_> but I can't even keep track of Ubuntu, I'm not sure how' I'm supposed keep track of 2
<slangasek> you get into Debian and trick Debian into helping you^Witself
<slangasek> :)
<TheMuso> slangasek: The more you talk about DDship, the more I am considering signing up. :)
<slangasek> realistically, I know the Debian NM queue is long enough that there'll probably always only be a minority of MOTUs who are DDs
<LaserJock_> well, how many do we have right now?
<LaserJock_> I think probably around 5
<bddebian> Well even as a DD you can
<bddebian> grr
<bddebian> can't just willy nilly upload fixes and changes to a package like you can in Ubuntu can you?
<slangasek> (nor do I think that MOTUs should have to become DDs in order to get other Debian maintainers to listen to you)
<LaserJock_> I like the Debian Maintainer idea
<slangasek> bddebian: no (though I hope "willy nilly" doesn't accurately describe the Ubuntu process either ;)
<TheMuso> All DDs I've had to contact have been very forthcoming and receptive of any changes I've suggested.
<LaserJock_> slangasek: do you think Debian Maintainer could help bridge the gap?
<slangasek> maybe
<LaserJock_> for me the problem is basically that I don't know really anything about a lot of the packages I touch
<bddebian> slangasek: I mean the concept of a single maintainer for a package.
<LaserJock_> so being in Debian wouldn't necessarily help
<slangasek> bddebian: right, there's obviously a different concept of package ownership at work
<LaserJock_> bddebian: Debian has a lot teams though
<bddebian> slangasek: Seriously, I have a question without trying to sound like a smartass
<sistpoty> TheMuso: same here... actually of all my debian bugs filed from motu work, I guess only 1 or 2 got rejected
<slangasek> but if the reason the Ubuntu changes don't get merged up is because the Debian maintainer is out to lunch, NMUs are an option too...
<LaserJock_> yeah
<LaserJock_> actually timing has been more of an issue for me that the Debian maintainer not liking the changes
<bddebian> slangasek: Take the gnome-breakout stuff I just did.  The package was a mess but I get grilled for all of the little mistakes I made on my changes.  Why the double standard?
<sistpoty> at least since there is the "everlasting BSP" :)
 * bddebian has an acronym aneurism
<slangasek> I mean, honestly, the reason I first got into Debian development was because at the time I was maintaining a bunch of rpms in house at work, and migrating to Debian was a way to make other people help me maintain them :)
<slangasek> bddebian: uh, tough question
<sistpoty> bddebian: OTOH some people in teams are quite relaxed when it comes to really bad stuff *cough*
<bddebian> sistpoty: ;-)
<slangasek> bddebian: short answer: it shouldn't be a double-standard, the people before you should've been held to the same high standard :)
<LaserJock_> I'm just hoping BTS get's a web interface soon
<sistpoty> slangasek: OTOH going through NM does require a much deeper understanding of packaging than becoming a MOTU
<bddebian> LaserJock_: Amen to that
<LaserJock_> the whole bugs-via-email thing just doesn't work for me
<bddebian> Of course an LP e-mail integration wouldn't be bad either ;-)
<slangasek> bddebian: but if you get someone who is a stickler about changes, I hope you take advantage of it, because the sponsoring/mentoring stages are pretty much the only time in Debian that you have anyone looking over your shoulder
<slangasek> which means it's the best opportunity to learn from others
<sistpoty> LaserJock_: I find it very convenient, and imho LP could have learned a lot from it
<LaserJock_> sistpoty: to each his own I guess ;-)
<sistpoty> probably :)
<LaserJock_> I much prefer LPs web interface to BTSs email interface
<slangasek> sistpoty: yes, that does seem to be one of the points of friction with Debian, doesn't it? :)
<bddebian> slangasek: As I said don't take that wrong, I'm happy to learn more.  I just find the abuse about how I don't know shit and yada yada interesting when I have seen shitloads of Debian packages in pretty bad shape when looking at them for Ubuntu.
<sistpoty> slangasek: sure
<bddebian> I will readily admit that there is a lot I don't know and I am exceptionally weak on the copyright side
<slangasek> bddebian: oh, well if you're getting that kind of abuse, then that's obviously not appropriate
<LaserJock_> I've found Debian much better once I found a few people who where nice
<slangasek> bddebian: and in that case, sure, there's a double standard because if you're a DD, people are less likely to say that about your packages even if they are crap ;)
<sistpoty> LaserJock_: well, reportbug does a good job... we don't have an ubuntu equivalent (or I haven't found it yet). Likewise if you're forced to use email for triaging bugs like in debian, you'll learn the commands (I've not done that for LP yet=
<bddebian> Well that almost makes sense :)
<LaserJock_> sistpoty: yeah, I don't much care for reportbug and I don't have an idea most of the time what the emails are doing
<azeem> slangasek: bddebian mostly gets abuse from himself, IME
<bddebian> LaserJock_: Overall there are some great people in Debian.  Unfortunately there are 1 or 2 that sour it greatly for me ;-)
<LaserJock_> azeem: haha
<slangasek> sistpoty: ubuntu-bug?
<LaserJock_> bddebian: well, so don't pay attention to the bad apples ;-)
<bddebian> azeem: I don't mind abuse in general, just not when I'm trying to help and basically getting shit for it
<Kmos> http://mindboosternoori.blogspot.com/2007/10/on-ubuntu.html
<sistpoty> slangasek: not a package?
<Kmos> check this blog entry about ubuntu and geneweb themuso patch
<Kmos> =)
<LaserJock_> bddebian: well, if you're feeling bad you can always go work on some MOTU Science bugs ;-)
<slangasek> sistpoty: part of apport
<sistpoty> ah
<bddebian> LaserJock_: I looked at that list not too long ago
<LaserJock_> basically, I'm starting to think we just need more MOTU education
<bddebian> Actually isn't pybliographer one of the science packages?
<LaserJock_> I think we need to increase the overall technical level of MOTUs
<slangasek> LaserJock_: I would be happy to see that happen
<sistpoty> slangasek: no, at least from looking at the source package.
<TheMuso> Kmos: That was to work around LP infrastructure.
<bddebian> LaserJock_: How do you reconcile that with everyone whining for a faster easier process? :-)
<slangasek> sistpoty: $ dpkg -S `which ubuntu-bug`
<slangasek> apport: /usr/bin/ubuntu-bug
<LaserJock_> bddebian: well I don't
<TheMuso> Kmos: Thats not a problem I could get fixed properly at that time.
<LaserJock_> I don't agree with a "lower the bar to MOTU so we get more people" approach
<sistpoty> slangasek: did you look at it? :P
<LaserJock_> I think if you have fewer people who were competent you'll get farther
<sistpoty> (line 3 in particular *g*)
<Kmos> TheMuso: I mailed the maintainer and he says he doesn't have nothing to do with derivative distros like ubuntu.. today there is a 5.01-3 release that fixes the problem.
<Kmos> :)
<slangasek> bddebian: you reconcile it by making "more education" a goal for everyone, instead of a barrier to entry
<slangasek> sistpoty: oh, haha, that's not email
<Kmos> TheMuso: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/geneweb/news/20071019T210206Z.html
<slangasek> :)
<LaserJock_> slangasek: agreed
<TheMuso> Kmos: I don't doubt that. We couldn't easily bring in new upstream versions at the time, and it didn't seem like it was worth it just for a quick fix like that.
<sistpoty> Kmos: since I'm a member of debian-games as well, would you mind to answer Miriam Ruiz's mail?
<slangasek> alrighty, gotta run; later, folks
<Kmos> TheMuso: i think it was a valid fix.. because we really don't have time to report it upstream.. i've done with by mail to the maintainer, but today I created an bug in Debian BTS
<Kmos> sistpoty: i'm not subscribed to debian games ML.. i need to check that manually
<sistpoty> cya slangasek
<sistpoty> Kmos: who come? you want to work in that team, don't you?
<bddebian> Laster slangasek
<Kmos> sistpoty: i already have worked with some packages.. i had some problems with rhonda, that I agree in some points.
<Kmos> sistpoty: do you have the URL of miriam mail ?
<TheMuso> Kmos: It was an LP/Ubuntu tool that made the package choak. Normally, 0 length po files are not a problem.
<Kmos> TheMuso: pitti said it was a feature, not an bug.. that check is now normal.
 * Kmos smoke
<pwnguin> imbrandon: bootcharts or it didnt happen
<sistpoty> Kmos: let me look... but please subscribe to the games mailing list, as that is usually the first point of contact (it also recieve the bug mails, so how could you know about these w.o. subscribing?)
<Kmos> sistpoty: i need to do it :)
<LaserJock_> hmm
<LaserJock_> it just seems like we have so many initiatives or programs for such a small number of people
<bddebian> amen
<Kmos> sistpoty: done, now.. I need to wait for moderator confirmation
<Kmos> sistpoty: don't need moderator approvement.. it's done
<sistpoty> Kmos: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2007/10/msg00043.html
<sistpoty> Kmos: (please look at the whole thread)
<pwnguin> I'd caution taking advice on lowering the bar to MOTUship from non-MOTU peoples
<TheMuso> pwnguin: I don't think that was discussed...
<pwnguin> ?
<TheMuso> I didn't see anything about lowering the bar.
<pwnguin> then you missed that email
<TheMuso> pwnguin: As it is though, I agree.
<pwnguin> My question is, is universe missing people, or leaders (*M*otu)?
<LaserJock_> I honestly think Universe is missing technically competent people
<Kmos> sistpoty: ok, thx
<pwnguin> the wiki and the like highly revolves around becoming a Master of universe
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Agreed.
<LaserJock_> our processes aren't really that bad
<LaserJock_> but if you look at the developers of other distros
<pwnguin> i wonder if that focus in the wiki promotes a misconception that only MOTU contribute to universe
<LaserJock_> in general we are a very young and immature group
<pwnguin> heh
<LaserJock_> I've got a mind to think that we actually more effort on teaching *existing* MOTUs
<LaserJock_> *actually need
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Agreed also.
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: I don't think that misconception has really anything to do with MOTU
<pwnguin> the purpose of MOTU is to sponsor uploads and such right? to be a set of eyes upon the larger universe contributing community
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: no, it's purpose is to maintain Universe and Multiverse
<pwnguin> so if you're not part of MOTU
<TheMuso> It sometimes feels like we do more sponsoring than anything else though.
<pwnguin> you dont maintain?
<LaserJock_> that's not what I said
<LaserJock_> I said the purpose of MOTU is to maintain Universe and Multiverse
<LaserJock_> if there aren't enough people in MOTU itself to handle that then you "outsource"
<bddebian> is it ok to chgrp in a postinst?
<pwnguin> LaserJock_: by default, there arent enough people
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: why would you say that?
 * jdong chuckles at his horrible sedjob
<jdong> "Medibuntu -- 7.04 "gutsy fawn" "
<TheMuso> bddebian: Why would you need to do that?
<LaserJock_> jdong: hehe
<pwnguin> LaserJock_: because theres a lot more software than people?
<LaserJock_> the thing is, MOTU was never meant to be a oversight committee, IMO
<pwnguin> well i think thats a mistake
<LaserJock_> well, I'd respectfully disagree
<LaserJock_> most people didn't become MOTUs so they could babysit people
<pwnguin> indeed
<TheMuso> Agreed.
<LaserJock_> the reason we teach and help is so that the people we teach will join us
<LaserJock_> to become part of the team
<pwnguin> if you want quality, you have to have babysitters
<pwnguin> peer review is fundamental
<LaserJock_> Debian does quite well without much babysitting
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> by which you mean, they accept 2 new DDs a year
<LaserJock_> well, that's somewhat of another issue
<LaserJock_> I'm saying that Debian produces arguably the best distribution, without requiring much day-to-day babysitting
<pwnguin> because everyone goes through an extreme process to make sure you're sane
<LaserJock_> there could be some of that
<LaserJock_> although it's not always so extreme
<LaserJock_> there could quite possibly be many ways to streamline that process
<LaserJock_> but I'm afraid we don't even have very good "babysitters" right now in Ubuntu
<pwnguin> true; azureus at this point ought to just be killed
<LaserJock_> I'm not throwing out mentoring and sponsorship
<TheMuso> pwnguin: lol
<bddebian> TheMuso: xboing moves the scores file in postinst from var/lib/foo to /var/games/foo but it's root:root so it can't save the scores :-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Do you mean that the QA has dropped with sponsorship?
<LaserJock_> I'm suggesting that perhaps we'd end up with an even faster/better process if the MOTU where more educated
<jdong> I wonder, our Azureus seems to be such a mess... that should we just start over and base off Fedora... again?
<pwnguin> just base off upstream
<TheMuso> bddebian: Well why not have the file placed correctly at package build time?
<pwnguin> is there someohing nonfree with az?
<LaserJock_> I think it's no so much a matter of quantity but quality
<bddebian> TheMuso: Because that would be the smart thing to do ;-P
<jdong> pwnguin: only if you want it to actually work
<pwnguin> heh
<bddebian> I never know how radically to change packages
<jdong> pwnguin: as much as people say it works fine with Fedora patches and GNU GCJ.... I frankly don't buy it
<jdong> pwnguin: the only properly functioning Azureus I've ever seen is with Sun Java
<pwnguin> it woriks fanfuckingtasically from the tarball
<TheMuso> bddebian: Well what you said about moving it sounds VERY VERY crackful to me.
<pwnguin> and sun java
<pwnguin> well actually
<pwnguin> i take that back
<jdong> pwnguin: exactly...
<pwnguin> Ubuntu's package will cause hotspot to crash
<bddebian> TheMuso: I agree.  Another point about Debian packages.. ;-)
<pwnguin> which is an accomplishment, really
<jdong> pwnguin: something borkens when it's compiled from source with GCJ
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: As a group, what do you think we lack in terms of knowledge?
 * pwnguin hats off to azureus packager
<jdong> pwnguin: I'll have to set up a Fedora 8 VM sometime to fool with their stability...
<Kmos> deluge-torrent does the job for me :)
<pwnguin> jdong: a massive problem is this native ui patchset
<jdong> pwnguin: last time I tried was FC6 and it was actually quite nice... a tad slower than Sun Java's Azureus but at least everything worked.
<pwnguin> azureus is the only tool that i can game the system enough with =)
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: programming knowledge is some of it
<pwnguin> heh
<LaserJock_> we need to be able to actively patch and be able to review patches
<pwnguin> i dont see how motu can require programming knowledge when core dev doesnt
<LaserJock_> core dev doesn't?
<pwnguin> ive seen a few admit they cant
<LaserJock_> well, that's not exactly true
<LaserJock_> I'd admit it
<LaserJock_> but that doesn't mean I don't know *anything*
<LaserJock_> I need to know more
 * TheMuso can read and understand shell scripts, a little bit of perl, most C, and pretty much no C++.
<pwnguin> but does mean you might know enough
<TheMuso> and some python
<LaserJock_> well, we are working on *source* packages
<LaserJock_> we are working on the instructions on building software
<TheMuso> yep indeed.
<LaserJock_> you can do a fair amount without programming experience
<LaserJock_> but I think at some point, if you want to be effective you gotta have that experience
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Actually, another thing that would be good to know is how to interpret stack traces from apport.
<pwnguin> heh
<LaserJock_> exactly
<LaserJock_> I'm totally clueless when it comes to apport
<pwnguin> how does that even work?
<TheMuso> Likewise.
<LaserJock_> I have no idea about debugging symbols etc.
<pwnguin> i wonder if anyone besides keybuk knows wtf to do with apport
<LaserJock_> in short, I think a lot of MOTU is just incapable of being anything but paperwork shufflers
<TheMuso> If I knew how to read a stack trace for a C program, chances are I could then fix it.
<pwnguin> LaserJock_: and i think a lot of people would rather be writing code than signing up to shuffle paper in MOTU
<TheMuso> On the other hand, a while back, I actually coded a patch to fix endianness issues in a package.
<pwnguin> how is a stack trace hard to read?
<pwnguin> it's basically the nest of function calls
<TheMuso> pwnguin: For someone who knows how to read them, thats easy to say.
<LaserJock_> yeah, I don't have a clue what it's doing
<TheMuso> Try looking at one of the text files apport retracer produces.
<pwnguin> bug #?
<TheMuso> I know function calls when I see them, but thats about it.
<TheMuso> Then, things get more complicated when threads are involved.
<pwnguin> yes
<pwnguin> its a miracle it works at all
<pwnguin> i imagine apport is supposed to be used with gdb or some such
 * sistpoty needs to go to bed... gn8 everyone
<TheMuso> Night sistpoty.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Given time, I could work out stack traces, but I think a session by one experienced with them for MOTUs is an absolute must.
<LaserJock_> then there's upstream knowledge
<TheMuso> We get a lot of apport crash bugs filed, and we tend not to deal with them mostly.
<LaserJock_> and tool knowledge
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Yes indeed.
<pwnguin> LaserJock_: i think upstream knowledge is a steep requirement given the MOTU concept
<TheMuso> Autoconf/automake stack is another problem at times.
<pwnguin> god
<TheMuso> pwnguin: At least knowing build frameworks is a need to know.
<pwnguin> i so hate autoconf
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: we're supposed to be working with upstreams though
<TheMuso> Well, the fact is that most projects use it.
<LaserJock_> moving bugs upstream
 * TheMuso has seen many crap autoconf setups in his time
<TheMuso> And, I've seen very very good ones.
<pwnguin> well, sure. but what i mean is rather than simply being familiar with upstream, you should have the ability to navigate the upstream landscape
<pwnguin> ie never know who you'll be dealing with next and still feel comfortable
<LaserJock_> well, kinda
<TheMuso> brb
<LaserJock_> but we've got a whole lotta bugs that we're not going to be able to fix
<LaserJock_> so, I guess my point is that maybe  a focus on MOTU education would be the way to go
<TheMuso> back
<LaserJock_> you don't have to be a uberhacker to be a MOTU
<pwnguin> so they can start fixing bugs upstream hasnt?
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: I'm behind you here.
<LaserJock_> but you don't stop learning once you've become a MOTU
<TheMuso> aint that the truth.
<LaserJock_> making MOTU should just be the beginning :-)
 * TheMuso went for MOTU, with the full intension of becoming a core-dev one day.
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: well, we have to evaluate if it's an upstream bug to start with
<LaserJock_> and if we should/could do a fix in Ubuntu first
<LaserJock_> a MOTU should be roughly on par with a DD
<pwnguin> ouch
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Roughly on par, I'd say the same as.
<LaserJock_> well, it's a bit hard to make a direct comparision
<jmg> LaserJock_: are you talking about a full motu, with uploader rivilege?
<jmg> or any motu?
<pwnguin> this is what i mean
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: Yes, but I mean in terms of quality of work
<LaserJock_> jmg: a MOTU is a Universe uploader
<pwnguin> there's a conflict of defintions out there
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: agreed
<jmg> ok
<pwnguin> plenty of people are willing to take part in a process where someone else has to review the package before its taken
<TheMuso> Another thing I think needs talking about, is dealing with shared libs, sonames, and the rest.
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: exactly
<jmg> is someone writing a book? :)
<pwnguin> there's already two
 * TheMuso should read that shared libs guide again
<pwnguin> debian new maint guide and debian-policy
<LaserJock_> the other aspect of this though
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: and the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<pwnguin> yes
<TheMuso> !shlibs
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about shlibs - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<TheMuso> gah anybody got that url for the shared libs guide?
<jmg> i mean, a really comprehensive book
<LaserJock_> is that if you have a good team of high-quality MOTUs then it becomes a good place for people to learn packaging
<LaserJock_> and sponsoring is smooth
<LaserJock_> et.c
<LaserJock_> *etc.
<jmg> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<pwnguin> one thing about MOTU that makes it challenging versus debian is that as a debian packager you often have a good clue of what you've mangled compared to upstream
<pwnguin> quilt and dpatch help make patching source more obvious i think
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: yeah, true
<pwnguin> so whats the story with sun java 7?
<pwnguin> people moaning about nonfree build deps, is that fixed yet?
<bddebian> Damn I hate Debian being on OFTC :)
<LaserJock_> and gnome on gimpnet
<pwnguin> was there a purpose behind debian leaving oftc?
<pwnguin> hiding from users?
<StevenK> Firstly, it left Freenode, not OFTC.
<pwnguin> oops
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> leaving FOR oftc
<StevenK> The main reason was lilo (the person) kept messaging all users asking them to donate money
<LaserJock_> Ubuntu almost left for oftc as well
<StevenK> And most developers got sick of this, so we held a vote.
<bddebian> Really?  I thought they got sick of all the netsplits?
<LaserJock_> StevenK: that's all?
<StevenK> And netsplits, right.
<bddebian> though I have seen more of those on oftc that freenode in recent history ;-)
<ScottK> bddebian: That's a benifit of Debian on OFTC then twice the chance to enjoy netsplits.
<ScottK> Here and on OFTC
<LaserJock_> lol
<bddebian> ScottK: heh
<StevenK> I'm interested in why Ubuntu nearly jumped to OFTC, but I'm late for lunch.
<bddebian> Later
<LaserJock_> StevenK: some issues with Canonical, and being close to Debian
<bddebian> Goddamn getting help on Debian is like pulling teeth
 * pwnguin recalls once being asked not to mention #debian-devel in #debian
<mekius> pwnguin: probably a good thing ;)
<pwnguin> well, it always feels like DDs hide from users to me
<ajmitch> think of how many users think that there should be an exception to the 'no support' rule, just for their problem
<pwnguin> i still dont know what support IS
<pwnguin> ive filed bugs against universe packages, i hope its no sin
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: ?
<ajmitch> filing bugs is expected & encouraged
<LaserJock_> hi persia
<persia> Hey LaserJock_
<ScottK> Heya persia.
<persia> hi ScottK
<LaserJock_> heah ScottK
<ScottK> Hi there LaserJock_.
<imbrandon> pwnguin: you are jldugger correct ?
<LaserJock_> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock_
<imbrandon> and persia ScottK
<imbrandon> and ajmitch , hell *
<imbrandon> ;)
<persia> Good evening imbrandon
<ScottK> Hi there imbrandon
<ajmitch> wow, I rate in a greeting
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: lol
 * ajmitch is overwhelmed
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> Hello there ajmitch
 * ajmitch is going to have to go off & rest, can't handle all this attention
<ajmitch> or it's because I'm sick of being online today, and I feel like going & reading a book :)
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock_> ajmitch: pfft
<LaserJock_> reading
<imbrandon> bddebian: there is sekrit talk iirc of freenode and oftc merging anyhow as of late
<LaserJock_> now that lilo is gone?
<LaserJock_> or would was that talk before?
<imbrandon> yea, its been mentioned a few times from the high ups in the staffer chans
<imbrandon> lately
<imbrandon> and afaik there has even been talk to the oftc people about it a tad bit
<LaserJock_> it'd be nice if all the FLOSS projects were on the same network
<imbrandon> but thats all hear say from a lowly "level one" freenode staffer ( myself )
<persia> Does that mean freenode would enable SSL?
<ScottK> One irc network to rule them all.
<imbrandon> persia: no idea
<imbrandon> stargate atlantis is on tonight , w00t, thats all thats on my mind
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: what a geek
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> stargate and heroes is all i watch on tv
 * TheMuso needs to see seasons 2 and 3 before eve considering 4. :p
<imbrandon> and mostly i dvr those
<LaserJock_> heroes is pretty good
<TheMuso> Not that we have season 4 here at all.
<LaserJock_> I've been watching Chuck and Bionic Woman lately
<LaserJock_> I do comedy more than scifi
<imbrandon> TheMuso: that sucks *cough*torrent*cough*
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I'd rather DVDs thanks.
<imbrandon> chuck was "OK" i only seen the pilot, looked cheesy
<TheMuso> And I don't have the quota to spare.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: you watch sg-1 too ?
<imbrandon> seen all 10 seasons ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yep, waiting for season 10 to come out here on DVD.
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: it's kinda cheesy, but not overly, IMO
<TheMuso> I've seen up to season 9
<TheMuso> So I've got seasons 1-9 on DVD.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: ahh rockin, season 10 is the best one since season 6
<imbrandon> 7 8 9 sucked imho
<TheMuso> The end of 7 was cool, and parts of 8 and 9, but the rest were average for the most part, agreed.
<LaserJock_> I think I'd rather watch 24
<imbrandon> i cant wait for the movies, they said there will be 2, one to wrap up the 10th season and one totaly new one
<TheMuso> Yeah same here.
<TheMuso> Sucks being an Aussie sometimes. :p
<TheMuso> But the wait is worth it.
<imbrandon> i've been hooked on stargate since the original movie, before sg-1
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: sucks being broke ;-)
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: I did like the movie. sg-1 I can take it or leave it
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I've got that on DVD also. I wouldn't consider myself an absolute stargate junky, but I do enjoy watching them.
 * imbrandon is a total junkie ;)
<TheMuso> I've got a friend who is willing to pay top dollar to get VIP ticket for the conventions that come out here.
<TheMuso> I'm not that bad.
<TheMuso> I just watch and enjoy.
<imbrandon> heh , that and star trek too but those are all off air and i think i've seen every TNG and Enterprise epsidode 10 times
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> I'm probably more a starwars junky than stargate, but still love stargate.
<TheMuso> Read most of the starwars books.
<imbrandon> infact all my servers and computers here at home are named after star trek ships ;)
<TheMuso> And the books IMO are better than the movies.
<TheMuso> Oh god.
<imbrandon> lol
 * imbrandon uses irc from hood
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: yeah, it's that bad ;-)
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: I'm sure we can find some imbrandon pics from Trekkie conventions
<imbrandon> you think thats bad, my old employer named servers after star wars planets, courscant,kashyyyk,tatooine etc and the dns server and backup dns server names were itchy and scratchy ;)
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: you got KDE translated into klingon
<imbrandon> LaserJock_: hahaha
<imbrandon> LaserJock_: actualy i've never been to a trek convention
<imbrandon> ( or stargate / starwars )
 * LaserJock_ feels relieved
<LaserJock_> I was gonna have to draft up a letter to the TB
<imbrandon> i still love the itchy and scratchy dns server names
<LaserJock_> "can easily be bribed to upload viruses by Mt. Dew or Trek memorabilia"
<imbrandon> ahahahahaha
<imbrandon> mt dew maybe, corona definately :)
<imbrandon> i actualy have a "Gate" ( working ) that is ontop of my land "Kubuntu Towers" in SecondLife , lol
<LaserJock_> oh my
<imbrandon> ( right beside the ubuntu pyrmid on OSS island )
<LaserJock_> I wish I had a computer at how that would run Second Life
<LaserJock_> the only thing I've been able to use is my iMac at work
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> there is an osx client
<LaserJock_> and well, Second Life is kinda hard to justify at work
<imbrandon> afaik
<LaserJock_> even if it was for chemistry
<LaserJock_> yeah, I know, I did try it out
<imbrandon> i thought your lappy was semi powerfull ?
<LaserJock_> pfft
<imbrandon> it dont take much to run SL
<LaserJock_> it's a 2.6GHz celeron with an ATI 7000 IGP
<LaserJock_> my desktop I think will run it kinda ok
<imbrandon> yea it should work fine, i use lass than that for my SL computer ( a G3 800mhz with 640mb ram and a ATI 7xxx card onboard )
<LaserJock_> really?
<LaserJock_> hmm
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock_> maybe I'll give it a try
<LaserJock_> a group I work with has created a Chemistry education and chemoinformatics area
<imbrandon> i think its a 7200, not sure, i'll ahve to look
<LaserJock_> one of the profs uses SL to do chemistry quizzes
<imbrandon> there is a whole FLOSS island with lots of ubuntu stuff and a ubuntu ( and ubuntu-developers ) groups
<imbrandon> and i put up a "Kubuntu Towers" building a few months ago, its a 7 story tower
<imbrandon> man i get this room way way OT real easy
<LaserJock_> I don't particularly get the point of SL, but it seems like some people seem to get a lot out of it
<imbrandon> i do it for the $$, i actualy make money selling icecast streams in-game
<imbrandon> i dont "play" much anymore
<LaserJock_> interesting
<LaserJock_> that's kinda weird
<imbrandon> and lindens translate into real $$ , 1000 lindens == approx $5 usd, depending on the trading index
<LaserJock_> I should find some ways of making some change online
<imbrandon> i normaly make about 5000 lindens a day on a good day
<imbrandon> minimum 10k a week
<LaserJock_> I'd love to be able to pay for hosting and maybe some misc. stuff
<imbrandon> so i dont get rich, but its worth the time i put in to make the automated scripts ;)
<LaserJock_> yeah
<LaserJock_> that's not so bad actually
<imbrandon> and honestly my adsense on my website pays for my webhosting
<imbrandon> but not much more
<LaserJock_> I don't like ads, but if I found a good way to make some money it'd be nice
<LaserJock_> my uncle makes around $700/month off of his site from ads
<imbrandon> i just have the one small bar on the left on my site, i dont think its tooo obtrusive
<TheMuso> If SL was accessible, I'd probably give it a go.
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: man, I've got 20/20 vision with my contacts and I got all confused ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: lo
<TheMuso> lol
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well its opensource ( the client ) so it could be made accessable i supose
<imbrandon> dunno how though
<TheMuso> With great difficulty.
<TheMuso> I would think.
<LaserJock_> "turn left ... turn left ... oops too far"
<imbrandon> there is even some opensource servers too but they are real immature atm
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: lol
<imbrandon> the client is "official" but the servers are all reverse engneered
<imbrandon> anyhow time to watch stargate, back in about an hour
<TheMuso> imbrandon: have fun
<imbrandon> btw , gameboy emu on a old Palm VIIx ( with Palm OS 3.5 ) rocks
<imbrandon> hehe ok , i'm out
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock_> oh wow, MS Office 2008 for mac is close to coming out
<TheMuso> Meh. Why bother. :p
<LaserJock_> I'd love to get Leopard+Office 2008 by my birthday ;-)
 * TheMuso is interested in Leopard for its accessibility features. Tiger still has features that I think could be duplicated elsewhere.
<jdong> Leopard looks interesting, I might purchase the upgrade for my macbook
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: because my work computer has an Intel processor and Office is really slow and buggy
<jdong> as right now I've mostly given up on making Ubuntu power consumption rival OS X on this machine
<TheMuso> Yeah well the previous version of Office is PPC only afaik.
<LaserJock_> yep
<LaserJock_> so it runs, but slower
<jdong> even in an extreme case powertopping down to 4 wakeups/sec and throttling the CPU 50%, I was unable to get power consumption down to OS X's 9.0W
<TheMuso> jdong: youch.
<LaserJock_> and my Excel data analysis can lock up my computer
<TheMuso> jdong: I wonder what OS X does then.
<jdong> TheMuso: I think there MUST be some device on the motherboard that OS X can place in a lower power state
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: turns on the super sekret backup battery that they don't tell you about
<TheMuso> jdong: Fun.
<TheMuso> LaserJock_: lol
<Burgundavia> Wakeups-from-idle per second : 447.0
<jdong> TheMuso: Apple's laptops got that PMU chip thing that's apparently capable of regulating power flow to most devices.... and Linux doesn't have a driver to touch it
<TheMuso> Is there being one worked on?
<jdong> TheMuso: 2.6.23 can read the PMU's battery stats, but nothing else
<TheMuso> jdong: Do intel Apple devices use ACPI?
<TheMuso> jdong: Right.
<jdong> TheMuso: Intel apple devices support an ACPI interface...
<jdong> but I don't think that's the primary interface OS X uses
<TheMuso> Right.
<jdong> I have confidence that Linux will eventually unlock the secret....
<jdong> but for now I see no reason to go from 5:30 battery life to 3:20 just to run Ubuntu
<TheMuso> I'd agree with that.
<jdong> most of my daily workflow involves ssh'ing into another box via terminal anyway...
<LaserJock_> yep
<jdong> if it works, it works. I'm not a zealot by much...
 * TheMuso was pondering an apple notebook for his next notebook, i.e when this one dies. Unless that gets sorted, its likely not to be now. :)
<jdong> TheMuso: not that a macbook is a *bad* laptop for ubuntu
<jdong> TheMuso: 3:30 battery life on a laptop is about average, I'd say; and almost everything else works OOTB
<TheMuso> jdong: Of course not, but I'd want max battery life.
<jdong> :)
<TheMuso> So if OS X can deliver that...
<jdong> I've yet to have a major complaint about OS X
<jdong> though honestly I use it more like *nix than like a Mac
<LaserJock_> I quit like it
<TheMuso> Heh I'm sure.
 * persia complains about focus-follows-mouse
<jdong> 6 tiled terminals, X server always up...
<jdong> heck I even use gtkpod to manage my iPod!
<LaserJock_> really? heh
<TheMuso> jdong: lol
<LaserJock_> I'm struggling with iTunes
<jdong> LaserJock_: yeah. I am not amused by the ways iTunes likes to restrict you
<pwnguin> ... right click?
<jdong> even something as SIMPLE as copying all the files from an iPod into the library
<TheMuso> jdong: The need tabbed terminal windows.
<TheMuso> they
<jdong> TheMuso: iTerm
<pwnguin> macbooks present a small problem when we demo them with ubuntu
<TheMuso> jdong: ah
<pwnguin> they have one big button for the mouse
<jdong> pwnguin: right click can be worked around by using synaptics to define two and three finger tap
<pwnguin> jdong: which nobody remebers when they just throw in a liveCD
<jdong> pwnguin: that is true; but that's a general Ubuntu problem IMO. Stock configuration of the touchpads across the board are quite mediocre
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Kompozer starts with a K, how come it isn't integrated with KDE?
<jdong> pwnguin: but IIRC multi-finger tap is on by default. 2 for middle, 3 for right
<ScottK> ;-)
<TheMuso> One thing that appeals to me about getting an apple notebook next, is that Apple's software is actually deacent, and the OS has everything the notebook needs. Every windows notebook however, has crap from the manufacturer, that clogs it up.
<pwnguin> imbrandon: yes
<LaserJock_> ScottK: lol
<pwnguin> imbrandon: i just haven't set up a bot to reserve the nick ;)
<TheMuso> I don't see the need for manufacturers to extend/screw acpi in bad ways for example.
<pwnguin> well, what if they published before the spec?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Its not just power management/acpi.
<jdong> TheMuso: apple hardware is also fairly standardized and you're much more likely to find someone else with the same specs as you
<pwnguin> i hear toshiba's oddities derive from having something useful before ACPI
<TheMuso> jdong: Thats certainly another point I've considered as well.
<jdong> TheMuso: plus, I honestly think Apple has a higher-quality construction than 90% of the systems out there...
<jdong> my parents have $2500 Precision M90's from Dell and I am unimpressed with the build quality and parts chosen
<TheMuso> Yeah well, its Dell.
<jdong> lol :) indeed
<TheMuso> My ThinkPad R50 is of a solid enough construction that I'm happy with it.
<jdong> cheap dell + accidental damage protection is the way to go
<jdong> TheMuso: when I said 90%, I was reserving the 10% for the thinkpad line :)
<TheMuso> And I paid AUD$2600 for it at the time
<TheMuso> jdong: Right.
<pwnguin> im reasonably satisfied with this toshiba
<LaserJock_> my toshiba stinks
<LaserJock_> my first laptop
<pwnguin> they dont do removable batteries
<jdong> TheMuso: a lot of people around here have expensive thinkpads... they're cool, but I honestly can't justify spending the extra money for it :(
<LaserJock_> I almost bought an ibook
<pwnguin> but other than that, its got a lot of the same stuff the thinkpads do
<TheMuso> jdong: Yeah but Apple's aren't cheap either.
<pwnguin> hdapms, fingerprint, tablet. nice keyboard
<jdong> TheMuso: when I was shopping for that laptop, I was down between a Macbook or a Thinkpad with similar size and specs... macbook was $1300, thinkpad was around $2000....
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I'd probably want a pro though, to get the expresscard slot. :p
<jdong> TheMuso: I knew before making the purchase that Ubuntu would run better on the thinkpad hands down... but could not convince myself that running Ubuntu over Darwin was worth $700...
<TheMuso> right
<Burgundavia> jdong: apple is just as cheap as anything else
<TheMuso> Being an audio junky, I'd want to use a card instead of a firewire/USB audio interface.
<Burgundavia> and they are notorious for changing parts without telling anybody
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> so we have all these laptop experts
 * TheMuso is no expert.
<pwnguin> why does snd-intel-hda suck so bad?
<TheMuso> Now thats a good question.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: That's just a reworking of "Composer", as the base code was called in the old Mozilla Suite.  Not my fault KDE asserts control of all things involving the letter K.  :P
<LaserJock_> I think I'm gonna have to right a Gnome app that starts with a K
<LaserJock_> just for the fun of it
<jdong> pwnguin: apparently it's because they didn't strictly define the CODECS enough, leading to so many incompatible implementations
<jdong> Burgundavia: maybe I have a biased view from the machines I own...
<jdong> Burgundavia: do you have suggestions for laptops that are not cheaply made, or change parts or introduce other incompatibilities arbitrarily?
<Burgundavia> jdong: don't buy a computer
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock_: KGroX - confuse everyone.  It starts with a K, but the main part of the pronouncable name is a G, and it has a capitalized X for some reason.  In reality, it's for rox.
<jdong> Burgundavia: I guessed you might say that :)
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: you work on telepathy, no?
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: as well
 * nenolod yawns, FTP mirrors still slow from gutsy upgraders
<nenolod> question: should new packages be built against hardy or is building them against gutsy fine for now?
<persia> nenolod: build against gutsy for now, but plan on rebuilding prior to requesting upload
 * nenolod wants to hold off on upgrading to hardy until the new toolchain settles
<nenolod> persia, right i knew that ;)
<TheMuso> nenolod: Or you could just wait till hardy opens with a new toolchain.
<nenolod> TheMuso, well i just debianised a pidgin plugin i use
<persia> nenolod: If you want to play, try a chroot, but it's really not ready yet.
<nenolod> TheMuso, and i was going to upload it to revu in a little bit
<TheMuso> The number of hardy uploads so far can be counted on two hands.
<nenolod> so i would like to build it against gutsy right now since i'm er building it to use :D
<TheMuso> And just about all are toolchain related.
<nenolod> ok. :P
<persia> nenolod: If nothing else, that will make it very easy for backporters :)
<nenolod> no point in backporting it
<nenolod> the players in gutsy don't support MPRIS except bmpx
<TheMuso> MPRIS?
<nenolod> (the plugin in question is pidgin-mpris, which uses mpris to query the now playing track in a MPRIS-compliant player)
<TheMuso> ah
<nenolod> TheMuso, Media Player Remote Interface Specification
<TheMuso> One can do that stuff with mpd already.
<nenolod> yeah. it's the same concept.
<TheMuso> Right.
<nenolod> there's also a pidgin plugin for rhythmbox
<TheMuso> I'm not fussed on people spewing their currently playing song actually.
<nenolod> TheMuso, there's a pidgin plugin for audacious 1.3 too, but audacious 1.4 uses MPRIS protocol instead
<nenolod> ;)
<TheMuso> I find it irritating.
<nenolod> TheMuso, ah. what this does is set it as your available message like on iChat on MacOS with iTunes
<nenolod> that's all it does
<nenolod> it doesn't spam anyhting ;p
<TheMuso> Still, its irritating IMO
<nenolod> yes. np spam sucks.
<nenolod> i wrote something to deal with that
<nenolod> (at least on IRC - where it seems to be most common) http://carpathia.dereferenced.org/~nenolod/rfc/ircpp-v0.3
<TheMuso> Well I'm not bothered, as I don't join channels where thats likely to occurr.
<TheMuso> lol. I don't believe it. On a forum here in Australia, theres already a discussion about OS X 10.6
<persia> Decibel does it as well, no?
<LaserJock_> TheMuso: I agree, the music thing is annoying ;-)
<soundofpillows>  yeha
<soundofpillows> yeah*
<nenolod> it's more annoying when they put a bunch of colours and control codes in it
<soundofpillows>  they should change it
<nenolod> they should just be shot
<nenolod> it's like the IRC version of a Gentoo user
<nenolod> :(
<LaserJock_> lol
<nenolod> COLOURS MAKE IT GO FAST^W^WBE MORE COOL
<soundofpillows> lol
<LaserJock_> "my use flags are bigger than yours"
<nenolod> oh yeah?
<soundofpillows> nah it would be better  w/o so moany colors
<nenolod> USE="â"
<nenolod> is that so?
<soundofpillows> yes
<LaserJock_> soundofpillows: get a real OS ;-)
<nenolod> (that was supposed to be the UTF-8 infinity symbol)
<LaserJock_> nenolod: that's what it is here
<nenolod> some gentoo user would just do
<nenolod> USE="â+1"
<nenolod> my useflags are still bigger !
<soundofpillows> same here
<nenolod> there's a few clueful gentoo users. they do exist.
<nenolod> i know all 20 of them.
<nenolod> i can count them on my fingers and toes!
<LaserJock_> I was a gentoo user for 2 years
<nenolod> i used gentoo when debian's future was uncertain
<LaserJock_> then I just got tired of compiling
<LaserJock_> so I moved to Ubuntu
<bddebian> Debian's future was uncertain?
<LaserJock_> and spend most of my time compiling
<soundofpillows> LaserJock_: Windows up in the house!!!!!
<nenolod> then i got a girlfriend
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Kinda.  Telepathy's one of my interests, certainly.
<LaserJock_> soundofpillows: watch it, I'll ban you ;-)
<soundofpillows> c# 0000ff ello
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: I was wondering how much of its goals are done and how much is left.  Is it almost complete, just barely getting going, somewhere in between?
<nenolod> bddebian, Debian 3.1 times had issues. :P
<nenolod> bddebian, then debian got hit with a brick of sanity again, and they got etch out the door
<soundofpillows> LaserJock_: I hate it when people are discriminating me because i'm black
<nenolod> soundofpillows, i discriminate against you because you're a smelly human
<nenolod> oh wait. so am i.
<nenolod> crap. :(
<bddebian> I know about Debian's history, but I'm not sure I was say that their future was uncertain because of that
<nenolod> bddebian, it seemed uncertain to me at the time.
<nenolod> so i decided to try gentoo
<nenolod> it was all the rage
<soundofpillows> LaserJock_: smelly peinguins arent any better
<bddebian> ah
<nenolod> then i decided gentoo was stupid, and tried slackware
<nenolod> and i used slackware for few years
<soundofpillows> i'd have to prefer windows over ubuntu
 * ScottK returns and wonders what the heck is going on.
<soundofpillows> but i'd pick ubuntu over vista any day
<DarkMageZ> they're telling their life stories
<nenolod> then i tried gentoo again because of switching to amd64, then stuck with it, then switched to ubuntu around 7.04
<nenolod> ;p
<LaserJock_> DarkMageZ: back in my day ...
<nenolod> i used debian 2.2 on m68k :P
<LaserJock_> anybody got ops in here?
<soundofpillows> i gots tons of ops
<rob> yes..
<rob> LaserJock_, what's up?
<nenolod> hey rob
<rob> hi nenolod
<soundofpillows> rob: long time no see
<rob> soundofpillows, yeah, I don't even recall your nick :)
<rob> (sorry)
 * nenolod waits for pbuilder to finish
<soundofpillows> rob: ='(|
 * DarkMageZ waits for archive.ubuntu.com... downloading dependencies so i can rebuild cdbs
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, i wonder if i will ever work on conspire again. i've been so busy. :(
<rob> hey do you guys know when the mentoring-ship will start for hardy? I'm hopefully hoping to be mentored for it..
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: still there?
<soundofpillows> rob: duh
<LaserJock_> DarkMageZ: that's why I updated my mirror right before release
<soundofpillows> same here
<soundofpillows> brb
<nenolod> soundofpillows, i thought you ran windows
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, yeah. i noticed the conspire channel was fairly dead. maybe it'd be easier to finish off the majority changes and push then into xchat.
 * pwnguin thinks he runs ALICE
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, zed thinks ipv6 is stupid
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, :))
<nenolod>  -> creating base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz]
<nenolod> finally.
<LaserJock_> soundofpillows is a Vista lover that only wishes he could be cool enough to run Ubuntu
 * rob has contributed packages before, but wants to get more involved this time around
<nenolod> vista: that OS which has incorrect manpages
<LaserJock_> rob: excellent
<LaserJock_> rob: the MOTU mentoring program might be interesting
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, hmm. i think zed needs to wake up.
<rob> LaserJock_, yeah, that's exactly what I need I think
 * rob heads off to the shop
<nenolod> nenolod@petrie:~/wrk/pkg$ sudo pbuilder build pidgin-mpris_0.2.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
<nenolod> woo.
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, mpris?
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, media player remote interfacing specification
<nenolod> now, providing i didn't do anything retarded, this package should just work
<nenolod> (i haven't needed to package anything in a few months.)
<pwnguin> the mpris concept should die
<nenolod> pwnguin, you should die :(
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Yeah, sorry, I'm still here :).  So, I use empathy instead of pidgin at the moment.  They seem pretty much feature-equivalent.
<nenolod> pwnguin, we put a lot of effort into it
 * pwnguin is now listening to: Angsty Teens - Not Another Heartbreak.mp3 [3:13/3:50]
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: The voip part of Empathy doesn't seem to work well, but I haven't tested it with anyone on the other end.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: that's just an IM client - I'm wondering about the whole framework.  (I have some grandiose ideas in my head, and I'm wondering if it would be completely unreasonable to suggest them for Hardy)
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Ah.  What sort of grandiose ideas?
<nenolod> pwnguin, why should mpris die?
 * imbrandon returns
<pwnguin> well, if it's a plugin to let everyone know that you listen to music
<nenolod> pwnguin, mpris is a protocol
<nenolod> pwnguin, for media player state to be queried
<nenolod> pwnguin, not a plugin.
<nenolod> pwnguin, pidgin-mpris is a plugin for that.
<nenolod> :P
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Well, let's see if I can put them into words here...:  So I log onto AIM with pidgin.  Something in the background manages the connection, messages, etc., and pidgin is just an interface to it.
<imbrandon> pwnguin: ahh i was just wondering if it was you that commented on the blog, as for the optimzations, its a one line c app, didednt think it mattered much :)
<pwnguin> imbrandon: apparently it does :)
<nenolod> riddle of the day: write a C program which reproduces it's own code in 20 characters or less
<pwnguin> nenolod: its used to tell people what you're listening to, rihgt?
<nenolod> :))
<nenolod> pwnguin, no
<imbrandon> pwnguin: huh ?
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Ah, so you mean telepathy.  Yes, this exists right now.  Empathy is that client.
<nenolod> pwnguin, it's a generic protocol which can be used to remotely pause/stop/print/get title/etc
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: I muck with some settings, and have to restart X.  No problem - the connections are separate from the GUI interface, so they aren't lost when I do so.  I log into Gnome again, and this time decide I want to use Empathy.  Fire up that client, and all of my connections are still there.  It even opens the conversation window I had going, with the history.
<pwnguin> i really cant see a purpose aside from being a MOO.dll replacement
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Now, I'm talking to someone during a weekday, and about an hour into the conversation I realize I'm going to be late for class.  In the flurry of activity of grabbing my books and jumping in the car, I forget to mention what's going on to the person I'm talking to, or change my status.
<nenolod> pwnguin, http://wiki.xmms2.xmms.se/index.php/Media_Player_Interfaces
<nenolod> pwnguin, it is not some IRC toy
<pwnguin> well pidgin is ;)
<nenolod> pwnguin, yes, and so is pidgin-mpris. but mpris itself is not a toy.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Now, that's no problem, because I set up a calendar including my class as a recurring event through Evolution.  Empathy realizes that it's time for class, sends my friend a message saying "Whoops, gotta run to Calc!", and changes my status to "Away - Calc class; back at 3"
<pwnguin> imbrandon: -static appears to hurt a lot
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Right.  So, apart from the pidgin bit, I believe that the framework is in a state that you could do all this.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Two weeks later I decide I'm sick of Evolution, and switch to Thunderbird.  Again, everything's done in the background and apps are just frontends on this level, so I install the Lightning extension, and poof, it loads up the calendar I had set up in Evolution.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: There's more ;)
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: However, I don't think pidgin is likely to get a telepathy backend.
<RAOF> Right.  *That's* not going to happen :)
<tonyyarusso> grr
<nenolod> pwnguin, wait a minute
<imbrandon> pwnguin: well it still only take miliseconds to run and i dont want something to make tty1 not work if a lib gets fubared ( or dist-upgraded to newer libc or junk )
<nenolod> pwnguin, people actually use pidgin's IRC support?
<nenolod> :x
<pwnguin> heheh
<pwnguin> yes sadly
<nenolod> that's too bad
<imbrandon> pidgin has MyspaceIM support, i just noticed that today heh
<nenolod> ew.
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: The syncing of calendars is a bit out of telepathy's domain, really.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Then, I'm going to work on a project.  I fire up GTimer, and start timing.  Empathy changes my status to "Away - working on Project X".  When I'm done and stop timing, I check a box saying the task is now complete, and it modifies it in Planner.
<pwnguin> i just imagine that pidgin-mpris is primarily a tool to query the media player and report the results to whatever chat you're in
<nenolod> ugh
<tonyyarusso> then marks me as available on IM.
<nenolod> pwnguin, basically
<pwnguin> which was my complaint
<pwnguin> this should be abolished
<nenolod> pwnguin, it can also update your available message with the track
<RAOF> (13.12.04| tonyyarus)) RAOF: Then, I'm going to work on a project.  I fire up GTimer, and start timing.  Empathy changes my status to "Away - working on Project X".  When I'm done and  stop timing, I check a box saying the task is now complete, and it modifies it in Planner.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Then there should be more than telepathy made methinks.  I envision basically total desktop integration.
<nenolod> chmod: cannot access `/tmp/buildd/pidgin-mpris-0.2.3/./configure': No such file or directory
<nenolod> ugh. i forgot. i have to run autogen.sh.
 * RAOF should stop playing with his trackpad.
<imbrandon> RAOF: lol
<imbrandon> external mice ftw
<pwnguin> psh
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Desktop integration is cool.  However, you won't get thunderbird, firefox, etc along for the ride.
<pwnguin> my built in wacom rocks
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Why not?  We can extend them.
<imbrandon> jesus google is fast, i just published that last post 1.5 hours ago and its already indexed
<pwnguin> imbrandon: im sure they have massive rss fetchers in addition to their crawler
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Well, kinda.  But they'll always have the integration bolted on, which pretty much defeats the purpose
<imbrandon> pwnguin: tiss nice they have me on their rss list then ;)
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: Then say I'm talking to someone on IM, and they say "Hey, wanna come over?  Saturday at 6 - my place."  That last bit gets auto-recognized as an event, I click it like a hyperlink, get a popup with some options, and add it to my calendar.  On Saturday, my IM client gives me a little message coming from my machine as the user, reminding me.
<Hobbsee> oh, fricking hell.  third person in <24 hours.
<imbrandon> pwnguin: but i doubt it i look at my rss feed stats more than my webstats
<pwnguin> imbrandon: i bet the spider finds rss sources and makrs them special
<pwnguin> or possibly just the planet's
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: So, a bit out of our league for now?
<imbrandon> pwnguin: well i get crawled by google once a day on avg anyhow, so maybe it was "just the right time" to post too
<pwnguin> imbrandon: but back to the important stuff -- if you can run change the script to run autologin, why can't you just login from there?
<imbrandon> huh ?
<pwnguin> fork / execs are expensive
<pwnguin> you change /etc/event.d/tty1
<imbrandon> tbh i dident think about that, lol
<imbrandon> probably would work
<pwnguin> thats probably the first place i would have looked
<pwnguin> assuming i knew how all this crap worked in the first place
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: That sort of integration sounds feasible, but I'm not sure about using the IM client as a notifier.
<LaserJocky_> HI
<pwnguin> HELLO
<imbrandon> heh, probably would be easier to change the userid that way too AND not have to install build-essential
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: lowercase, we don't need shouting
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> wth
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: true - there's probably a better thing for that bit.  Well, I'll probably try to describe it better and beg for volunteers on Planet or something :)
<pwnguin> this will get confusing fast
<imbrandon> programers always look for the hard way it seems
<imbrandon> lol
<pwnguin> then what am i?
<pwnguin> ive always heard it said programmers are lazy in a special way
<imbrandon> heh well, yea , ummm that dident come out correctly
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJocky_>  the small caps are not as bold
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: that's the point
<LaserJocky_> but i will live
<imbrandon> LaserJocky_: u ok?
<pwnguin> SCORE *** confusing nics:1 imbrandon:0
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: split personalities
<imbrandon> hahahah yea i just caught that
 * imbrandon dies
<LaserJocky_> imbrandon: i've had better days
<imbrandon> kinda like when StevenK and ScottK are both active, it ALWAYS makes me re-read atleaste one line of IRC
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: I always get confused on weird ones
<leonel> what do you recommend  for  virtualization with gutsy ?
<persia> In that case, at least tab completion isn't as tricky
<LaserJocky_> LaserJock_: u calling me weird?!?!?!
<imbrandon> leonel: what level ? i like OpenVZ but VBox is good too just for general stuff
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: yeah, got a problem with that?
<LaserJocky_> LaserJock_: we could catch fade right here, right now
<pwnguin> seriously, this will be the end of IRC, right here.
 * imbrandon blinks
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: I'll throw you in the pool if you don't watch it
<LaserJocky_> i realy think that ubuntu has quite some potential
<pwnguin> i hope we all do
<LaserJocky_> LaserJock_: that will be pretty hard after getting kicked in the back with ur face imprinted in the ground
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: how would you know? You <3 Vista
<LaserJocky_> oh no
<LaserJocky_> i dont use vista
<imbrandon> LaserJocky_ must be related to nixternal
<pwnguin> just windows
 * persia thinks half the conversation is missing
<LaserJocky_> i think its the worst OS yet
<LaserJocky_> 3.1 was better than vista
<nixternal> !visternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<pwnguin> persia: compare soundofpillow's host to laserjock's
<nixternal> biatches :p
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: pfft, you weren't old enough to use 3.1
<imbrandon> LaserJocky_: 3.1 is older than you
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: ok, so you wanna learn how to package software for Ubuntu?
<LaserJock_> pwnguin: suspicious isn't it? ;-)
<LaserJocky_> i know every thing there is to package software for ubuntu
<LaserJock_> *cough*
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJocky_> is that a chalenge?
<Testing> /part
<leonel> imbrandon: vbox said  I have a too old cpu after installing gutsy guest :(
<LaserJock_> LaserJocky_: bring it on
<imbrandon> leonel: wow
<imbrandon> never seen that before
<leonel> even it's a dual core duo
<imbrandon> seems like a bug then
<LaserJocky_> command:ban (LaserJock_) :D
<leonel> and did't boot
<pwnguin> psh
<leonel> and qemu does not work with gutsy guests..
<leonel> or feisty guests
<imbrandon> LaserJocky_: ok bro time to stray back onto topic
<pwnguin> what a noob. thats not how bans work!
<LaserJocky_> i konw "P
<nenolod> has the revu keyring been synced lately?
<imbrandon> nenolod: if you mean in the last 48 hours, unlikely
<leonel> well thanks
<nenolod> disappointing.
<imbrandon> nenolod: need me to run a sync ?
<nenolod> imbrandon, yeah. if you could. my GPG key is registered with launchpad (duh)
<imbrandon> ssh imbrandon@sparky.ubuntuwire.com
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> one sec
<pwnguin> hax
<nenolod> assuming that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU is correct, that's ally ou need right?
<nenolod> or has it changed since REVU got chowned a while back?
<imbrandon> as long as its on LP and you are in U-U-C
<imbrandon> it shoudl work
<persia> nenolod: That's still correct
<imbrandon> erm, cruft, i forgot the script to sync the keys
 * imbrandon thinks
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: hmm, have you tried openbox?
<imbrandon> LaserJock_: nah, always beena  fluxbox guy
<imbrandon> i might try it sometime
<LaserJock_> man, the latest release is really slick
<imbrandon> siretart: round ?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock_: of openbox?
<LaserJock_> yeah
<Hobbsee> hm
<imbrandon> is it in gutsy ?
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<LaserJock_> I believe so yes
<Hobbsee> hiya imbrandon
<LaserJock_> there's a blog post from Og Maciel about it
<LaserJock_> from a while ago
<imbrandon> well i've been on this 200mhz for a few days now and probably will be untill uds is over so i might try it in addition to my fluxbox
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: whats the key sync script called on sparky? i forget
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> imbrandon: bootcharts or it isnt happening :P
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: is it a laptop?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: see ~/.bashrc
<imbrandon> LaserJock_: nope
<Hobbsee> for the aliases
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: thanks
<Ubuntu_> si
<imbrandon> !es
<ubotu> Si busca ayuda en EspaÃ±ol por favor entre en los canales #ubuntu-es, #kubuntu-es o #edubuntu-es, allÃ­ obtendrÃ¡ mas ayuda.
<LaserJock_> Ubuntu_: blasphemy
<Ubuntu_> aki
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Ubuntu_> LaserJock_ is gay
<Ubuntu_> peace
<imbrandon> nenolod: ok key update running, i'll poke you when its done
<Ubuntu_> out
<LaserJock_> hahaha
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: carefull, he probably has the same ISP/Connection as LaserJock_ but its not him
<imbrandon> ;)
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: oh well.  any time that you're a git, you get the sharp end of my kickban stick.  if youv'e got others on your IP, then be warned, they may come beta you up
 * Hobbsee ponders wesnoth
<imbrandon> hehe
 * persia recommends westnoth
 * Hobbsee hasnt played it before, but hears others have, and it looks interesting.
 * bddebian recomends lordsawar
<Hobbsee> looks very age-of-empires-ish, at first glance.
<LaserJock_> persia: how is it different?
<bddebian> Oh, it's not in Ubuntu yet
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: its turn based.
<persia> bddebian: W: Unable to locate package lordsawar E: No packages found
 * imbrandon ponders messing with openbox
<pwnguin> liquidwar had a new release recently, after two years
<imbrandon> LaserJock_: is it just as light as flux?
<persia> LaserJock: No idea.  I've never played age-of-empires
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: point.
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: lighter
<imbrandon> pwnguin / LaserJock_ and no its not a laptop
<lintone> hello
<pwnguin> lightness has a couple components
<LaserJock_> age of empire is one of my all time favorite games
<LaserJock_> lintone: play nice now or I'll have you kicked again
<bddebian> persia: Aye, I just got it in to unstable :-)
<lintone> age of empires  is da shiznit
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: what does "point." mean?
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: as in, "good point" or "granted", etc.  as in, i'm agreeing with you
<imbrandon> i just "blew up" my core 2 duo 3ghz , and no money to spend on puters atm so i'm on this old relic for a few weeks, its good to keep me in perspective anyhow
<persia> bddebian: Thanks.  I'll grab it from there :)
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: ouch
<LaserJock_> how'd you do that?
<pwnguin> jebus, how do you blow up one of those?
<lintone> doom is the best game ever
<pwnguin> heh
<lintone> thats why its on ipod linux
<lintone> LaserJock_: drools over food network
<imbrandon> a power cable got caught in the cpu fan and i dident have "auto shutoff at X temp" in the bios on
<imbrandon> my own dumbarse mistake
<pwnguin> is that something that normally comes disabled?
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: :(
<imbrandon> pwnguin: apparently on this board it was
<lintone> that sux
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> doh
<imbrandon> i'm actualy suprised how productive this thing can be though
<LaserJock_> yeah
<imbrandon> and i do all my major builds on my database server and just remotely debsign them so it will be ok for a few weeks
<LaserJock_> I'm really surprised how well my Athlon 1800+ still works
<pwnguin> wait
<pwnguin> how do you not have a newer spare?
<imbrandon> heh i'm not made o $$
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I used to use a dual celeron 466 as my primary workstation.
<TheMuso> SO I know what you mean.
<Hobbsee> hm.  pacificnet mirror is still getting hammered.
<imbrandon> i have a crapton of computers arround here, even a xbox cluster , but nothing above 200mhz
<LaserJock_> hehe, I think my calculator is faster than that
<imbrandon> well the xboxes are 733mhz celerons, but the reolution on a TV sucks
<imbrandon> resolution*
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Their biggest bottleneck is ram.
<TheMuso> Or lack of it.
<persia> imbrandon: run the 200MHz machine as an Xterm for processing on the xbox :)
<imbrandon> yea only 64mb
<imbrandon> persia: i have serouisly considered it
<imbrandon> but its either a xbox 733mhz with 64mb ram or a 200mhz with 128, i choose the 200
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> Urf.
<LaserJock_> man, to think we tossed out a 333MHz with 128MB at work
<LaserJock_> I could shipped it to imbrandon
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> see
<pwnguin> this is what i mean
<LaserJock_> *could've
<jsgotangco> heh
<pwnguin> theres a huge difference between "made of cash" and "doesnt have anything newer than a 200mhz cpu as a spare
<LaserJock_> oh trust me, there isn't really
<imbrandon> well i had a few others but i was doing some house cleaning a few months ago and got rid of everything
<imbrandon> cept my production computers and my servers
<imbrandon> i just happen to have this accidently
 * pwnguin checks the kclug postings for "free for pickup" postings from imbrandon
<TheMuso> Old hardware still has good uses.
<imbrandon> pwnguin: it all went via craigslist
<TheMuso> My 466 runs xfce really nicely. It does have 768MB RAM however.
<pwnguin> bet you wish you had that sparcstation now!
<pwnguin> hahaha
<imbrandon> lol yea
<LaserJock_> I've got a sparc sitting at work
<LaserJock_> still need to find a keyboard for it
<imbrandon> i havent checked the kclug list in a few days, i only glance at it every few days
<persia> LaserJock_: why?  They run great headless...
<LaserJock_> persia: I gotta set it up
<persia> LaserJock_: serial ports?
<ShadowMinds> hi
<imbrandon> LaserJock_: sparks default to serial connection if they boot with no keyboard / monitor
<LaserJock_> what would I hook up to the serial connection?
 * persia wishes other machines did that too
<minghua> I feel it is easier to find a keyboard than finding a serial cable...
<persia> LaserJock_: A null modem cable, or a dumb terminal
<imbrandon> nother sial port on a laptop or linux box
<imbrandon> or a wise terminal
<persia> Or just a modem set up to handle incoming calls :)
<LaserJock_> I don't think we've got anything serial
<LaserJock_> it might be easier to just get a keyboard
<ShadowMinds> I have a question maybe someone here can answer it. I just updated to Gutsy a few hours ago. I'm running a dual monitor setup. How do I get the back ground to display evenly on both screens?
<persia> LaserJock_: In that case you might need one of the nifty USB to serial-null-modem devices.
<imbrandon> laptop dosent have a serial port ?
<pwnguin> ShadowMinds: half on each?
<ShadowMinds>  currently it has half on each
<persia> ShadowMinds: It sounds like you're looking for support, which we don't really do here.  You might try #ubuntu, or a localised channel.
<ShadowMinds> hmm ok
<ShadowMinds> how do i go to #ubuntu ?
<minghua> persia: The sparc I used have USB ports.
<imbrandon> unless it packagiong support
<ShadowMinds> lol i just started using IRC
<pwnguin> /join #ubuntu
<ShadowMinds> thanks
<persia> minghua: And no serial?  What's the default TTY if there's no console?
<LaserJock_> minghua: lucky you ;-)
<imbrandon> yea i wish i had my old sparc right now too, it had dual 500mhz procs and 1GB ram :)
<LaserJock_> nice
<LaserJock_> I think the one I've got is a single 400MHz
<minghua> persia: I don't really know.  It uses a USB keyboard and a USB mouse, I didn't bother to check other things.
<persia> minghua: I suspect you've a serial port on the back.  The newest I've played with is the Blade 1000, which was USB for keyboard & mouse, but still had serial, and does serial console just fine.
 * Hobbsee smells an oncomming kickban
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: ?
<pwnguin> -devel
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: -devel
<Hobbsee> yeah
<imbrandon> ahh i mostly only watch one chan at a time, even though i've connected to over 100 avg
<imbrandon> lol
 * imbrandon is lazy today
<nenolod> i love it when people don't include configure
<minghua> persia: I think the one I used is Blade 1000, too.  Let me check.
<nenolod> and the way that they call autotools has to be done in especially the right way
<nenolod> and cdbs can't do it
<nenolod> i love overriding rules in debian/rules to work around the clueless
<nenolod> i really really do
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Shame on you. Even I manage to track multiple channels.
<LaserJock_> lol
<nenolod> TheMuso, heh. i'm on 163 channels across 10 networks
<nenolod> :D
<TheMuso> nenolod: ouch!!
<imbrandon> i'm only on 2 networks and 40 chans or so atm
<persia> nenolod: use a makebuilddir/$package:: rule to set things up just-so
<nenolod> i had to fork xchat to make it support that amount of channels and fds
<nenolod> persia, i overrode debian/stamp-autotools-files
<nenolod> mostly because i wasn't aware of that
<nenolod> :D
<pwnguin> too many channels
<pwnguin> no point in idling on dead channels
<persia> nenolod: I'll recommend makebuilddir::, just because it's a published common hook, so easier for others looking at the package to understand.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: you're only a serious IRC'er when you have a +u
<pwnguin> *cough* #ubuntu-laptop
 * pwnguin guesses that means usermask?
<persia> nenolod: More generally, take a look at https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2480675
<minghua> Hmm, can't find what model I was using then.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: nah.  20 channel limit removed.
<pwnguin> fancy networks with their nickservs and their netsplits. back when i was a kid we could take over channels and we LIKED it that way!
<nenolod> persia, thanks. i was unaware of it.
<imbrandon> pwnguin / Hobbsee +T6eiu is what i have 99% of the time
 * persia wishes that waving a magic wand would cause all useful documentation to be organised in an easily accessible place
 * Hobbsee waves the magic wand
<imbrandon> is your pointy stick a majic wand ?
<imbrandon> magic*
<pwnguin> that reminds me
<persia> Hobbsee: That didn't by any chance result in a URL being placed in your brain, whch URL you might wish to share?
<pwnguin> i need to map my wiimote buttons to something useful
<Hobbsee> persia: www.ubuntu.com ?
<pwnguin> maybe like an NES controller
<imbrandon> pwnguin: you hooked a wiimote to the computer ?
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> dead easy
<pwnguin> apt-get wminput
<persia> methinks a pointy stick isn't the magic wand I had in mind.
<imbrandon> kick arse, i thought hooking a keyboard and mouse and usb hub to a xbox was cool
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock_> persia: can you play DOOM with it? ;-)
<imbrandon> well and my snes controller to my parallel port
<bddebian> persia: ;-)
<pwnguin> haha
<pwnguin> i'd been meaning to get one of those
<imbrandon> works great for the emu's
<pwnguin> my laptop has parallel but not serial =/
<imbrandon> pwnguin: i have about 10 of them already modified for the parallel port next time your in KC
<pwnguin> anyways, the wiimote works pretty good as a powerpoint presentation tool
<imbrandon> linux has a driver built in
<pwnguin> imbrandon: ive been meaning to find a wireless xbox controller
<pwnguin> i hear they work rather well
<imbrandon> yea xbox ports and xbox controlers are just odd shaped usb devices / ports
<pwnguin> oh
<imbrandon> just have to wire them up right
<pwnguin> i guess you cant really try it out on a pc that doesnt have usb
<imbrandon> thus being able to hook a usb hub and usb key / mouse to an xbox easy
<imbrandon> just splice one controler wire with a usb hub wire
<pwnguin> yea, but the wireless ones?
<imbrandon> the wireless one still has an IR reciever that hooks to the xbox, just wire that to a normal usb port
<pwnguin> oh
 * pwnguin wonders about the 360
<imbrandon> err s/IR/RF/g
<imbrandon> the 360 has true usb ports and the 360 controlers are just usb controllers
<pwnguin> imbrandon: if you wanna get really strange, you can plug a "classic controller" into the wii
<pwnguin> wiimote, and then use the wiimote to bluetooth the input to your bluetooth host
<imbrandon> pwnguin: yea but is a n64 controller they mean
<nenolod> persia, so, would i do makebuilddir/pidgin-mpris:: or makebuilddir/pidgin-mpris-0.2.3:: or makebuilddir/pidgin-mpris_0.2.3-0ubuntu1:: ?
<pwnguin> closer to cube
<ScottK> Hooray.  My first removal bug of the Hardy hunting season is filed.
<LaserJock_> ScottK: yeah?
<imbrandon> yea, i love the old NES and SNES, its funny i have at one point in time put a mini-itx into a NES case and had it boot right to a NES emu with nes controllers hooked up via the normal ports but the ports were wired to the parallel port ( supports upto 5 nes controllers )
<pwnguin> imbrandon: the downside to the wiimote thing is that it uses uinput and thus isnt very secure. i seem to be good at finding things that use uinput
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> secvpn is a very evil package.  It has to be killed.
<imbrandon> ScottK: lol
<persia> nenolod: makebuilddir/$binary-package-name, so probably makebuilddir/pidgin-mpris or makebuilddir/pidgin-mpris-0.2.3, depending on your contol file.
<pwnguin> are the hardy repos open?
<nenolod> pidgin-mpris, then.
<imbrandon> ScottK: thats awesom, seeing how i havent even started looking at hardy
<ScottK> I gave up trying to rehabilitate it when I got to it adding it's user to sudoers in the postinst
<minghua> pwnguin: I don't think so.
<nenolod> persia, and i can just do "sh autogen.sh" ?
<LaserJock_> ScottK: do you have a removal plan?
<pwnguin> 1. blacklist 2. unpublish. 3. drink yourself silly
<ScottK> File bugs on whatever annoys me that I think I can sell to pitti.
<persia> nenolod: You can probably just do ./autogen.sh
<ScottK> Actually I need to think about that and write something to ubuntu-devel.
<nenolod> persia, thanks
 * minghua hopes he doesn't annoy ScottK...
<ScottK> I don't think pitti's package removal powers extend that far.
<LaserJock_> ScottK: it'd be nice to do something systematic
<ScottK> Agreed.
<LaserJock_> I think we should be pretty ruthless for Hardy :-)
<ScottK> I need to think it over and then bounce some ideas off StevenK.
<ScottK> LaserJock_: Were you at the MOTU meeting today?
<LaserJock_> no :(
 * ScottK doesn't recall.
<ScottK> Ah.
 * imbrandon wasent either :(
<LaserJock_> I haven't made a MOTU Meeting in forever
<ScottK> Yeah I volunteered to come up with a plan.
<ScottK> for removal.s
<LaserJock_> I"m not even supposed to be on IRC
<imbrandon> nenolod: btw key sync done
<LaserJock_> ScottK: ah, great
<ScottK> Kind of by accident I got gpgme and openssl097 during Gutsy.  I'm sure there's a lot more cruft to kill.
<LaserJock_> it'd be kinda cool if we could do like Debian and not allow packages with RC bugs in
<imbrandon> could i mark gnome* RC then ? heh
<nenolod> imbrandon, thanks
 * imbrandon ducks
 * LaserJock_ kicks imbrandon in the butt
<ScottK> openssl097 didn't die until Monday before release.
<imbrandon> LaserJock_: btw hows kubuntu , still chuggin ?
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: no, back to the dark side
<imbrandon> doh
<LaserJock_> KDE is great though
<LaserJock_> just looks goofy ;-)
<imbrandon> lol, mine always looks like XP :)
<imbrandon> i even THOUGHT about skinning flux to XP for something to goof with
<LaserJock_> why oh why for the love of all that is good in this world!!
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> imbrandon: You don't label a package RC, you just label bugs RC
<minghua> imbrandon: So please go ahead and read through GNOME bugs. :-)
<imbrandon> minghua: i know, i wasy unsuccessfully trying to be funny
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> It was funny, just not accurate. ;-)
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: if I didn't work on an upstream GTK project I might stick with KDE
 * nenolod tests to make sure the final version with all of the crappy workarounds still works
 * imbrandon plans on testing the new c# qt bindings as soon as i get a real computer
<LaserJock_> imbrandon: yeah, I saw about that
<imbrandon> man i probably have written more c# code then i have looked at c++ code, and i forgot about it all when i came to linux because it was all gtk
<minghua> Huh?  But GTK is in C.
<nenolod> persia, thanks for the tip
<nenolod> minghua, there is GTK C++ bindings
<imbrandon> all the gui c# bindings untill reciently were gtk
<nenolod> minghua, and GTK C# bindings
<imbrandon> or windows.system.forms
<minghua> nenolod: Right, I know that, but I don't see imbrandon's logic.
<LaserJock_> minghua: there weren't qt bindings
<imbrandon> minghua: in other words if i wanted to write a GUI c# app i had to use gtk as the took kit , not qt
<minghua> Now I see.  So "it" refers to c#, not linux...
<imbrandon> untill reciently
<TheMuso> Thats a good thing. :p
<nenolod> qt is evil </troll>
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> qt  is currently inaccessible. </fact>
<nenolod> using qt is communism </fact> </troll>
<minghua> qt lacks CJK input support. </hearsay>
 * minghua doesn't mind communism at all. :-)
<imbrandon> minghua: nah it does, freeflying uses it all the time
<nenolod> s/is/is not/
<nenolod> :D
<nenolod> ew.
<minghua> imbrandon: I probably know both Qt's CJK support and freeflying a little better than you do...
<nenolod> makebuilddir/pidgin-mpris:: causes a second build
<nenolod> oh. just a rerun.
<nenolod> of configure.
<minghua> imbrandon: The Qt 3's support is a non-upstream patch.
<imbrandon> minghua: true, but i do know it has it ;)
<minghua> imbrandon: but full of bugs.
<nenolod> hmm.
<pwnguin> which is likely why its not upstream :_
<imbrandon> hey i dident say it was great, just it was there ;)
<nenolod> i could use a debian/autogen-stamp
<minghua> imbrandon: Okay.  s/lacks/sucks at/, if you prefer.
<imbrandon> btw has anyone talked to freeflying lately? i havent seen him active for weeks
<nenolod> perfection.
 * nenolod checks with pbuilder just to be sure
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I've only ever seen him come on and off IRC>
<nenolod> brb. need moar hacker fuel.
<freeflying> imbrandon: hi
<imbrandon> heya bro, long time no see
<imbrandon> :)
<freeflying> heh
<freeflying> :)
<freeflying> imbrandon: what's up with Qt's CJK support?
<imbrandon> freeflying: nothing we were just mentioning it
<imbrandon> i rember you had lots of trubbly with kopete's CJK support in dapper right ?
<freeflying> dapper? so long ago :), actually, qt just lacks of the CJK font supports, besides this, I'm ok with it
<freeflying> and kopete can work fine under CJK locales
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> yea dapper does seem like a while ago, heh we on another LTS now
<freeflying> kopete in dapper can work fine too
<imbrandon> maybe it was just the fonts then, it has been a while
<minghua> imbrandon: No, it has nothing to do with fonts, from what I see.
<imbrandon> minghua: no idea personaly, i only go by what freeflying said :)
<freeflying> yes, Qt will not add any extra support for CJK font in 3.x
<minghua> imbrandon: bug #88179, for example, is obviously Qt related, but nobody seems to care.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88179 in scim "[apport] scim-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in QTextCodec::fromUnicode()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88179
<minghua> (or know what is really going on)
<imbrandon> :)
<freeflying> minghua: I think its mostly a issue of scim, but not qt, you know skim has its own module manager, but now, scim's will run its owns under kubuntu
<minghua> imbrandon: There is also bug #37711 which doesn't seem to generate much interests.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 37711 in scim-qtimm "Qt/SCIM broken (Cannot enter numbers in to spinbox widget)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37711
<minghua> freeflying: Either scim's problem or Qt's problem, it still counts as "Qt's CJK input", IMHO.
<imbrandon> time for a reboot, brb
<minghua> freeflying: I know your opinion about CJK support in Ubuntu/Kubuntu.  And I have mine.  I think we can agree to disagree.
<StevenK> ScottK: Bounce what off me? :-)
<freeflying> minghua: actually, I have not good idea of the input method support in Ubuntu/Kubuntu now, due to what scim/skim is now
<freeflying> minghua: as to the #37711, its a upstream issue of scibus, but not relate to scim/qt
<minghua> freeflying: From what I read in #37711, scribus developers think it's a qt or scim issue.  If you know what the problem is about scribus, please point out in the bug report.
<freeflying> minghua: this issue seems has been discussed on the mailing list of scibus already, I don't know why haven't been fixed
<minghua> freeflying: I don't know either.  And it also seems no one replied to the bug report does.  That's why I suggest you pointing out the fix in the bug report.
<freeflying> minghua: AFAIK, someone has pointed out on the ML of scibus
<minghua> freeflying: But not the patch.
<minghua> And last time I read that bug, I remember the upstream mailing list thread concludes it's Qt or scim's problem.
<minghua> There are just many such bugs, I don't follow every links in them.
<freeflying> minghua: will check it later
<RAOF> StevenK: Could you please sponsor a Debian specto upload at your leisure? (http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/s/specto/specto_0.2.2-2.dsc )
<StevenK> RAOF: Can you bug me in about, oh 20 minutes?
<RAOF> StevenK: Certainly.
 * nenolod uploads pidgin-mpris to REVU.
<daric> afternoon evry one
<ScottK> StevenK: Ideas for some kind of plan to be systematic about cruft removal in Hardy.  I need to think about it first though.
<|_> hello
<StevenK> ScottK: Sure.
<ubu_1337_LNX> *cricket*
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<ubu_1337_LNX> hello
<LNX_opensrc8> hello
<nenolod> hm.
<RAOF> StevenK: That's about 20 min, right?  Colour yourself bugged.
<nenolod> anyone know why dput did not upload the .orig.tar.gz?
<nenolod> (to revu)
<minghua> nenolod: You need "dpkg-buildpackage -sa".
<RAOF> nenolod: Because your .changes file doesn't include it, because you didn't pass "-sa" to debuild/dpkg-buildpackade?
<nenolod> i used debuild -S to build the package. :x
<nenolod> oh.
<nenolod> i know.
<nenolod> upload the one in the chroot.
<nenolod> :P
<RAOF> Yup.  That builds a source package, but it won't include the .orig.tar.gz unless it thinks that the package is the first debian revision for that upstream version.
<minghua> Someone should write a patch to make dpkg-buildpackage to use "-sa" as default for "-0ubuntu1" version.
<persia> RAOF: It's not always that smart.  Safer to always use -sa when one wants a new upstream.
<minghua> persia: It's smart enough for Debian. ;-)
<persia> minghua: Or just do a comparison against the last version, to see if the upstream version or revision changed.
<RAOF> persia: Oh, absolutely.  I can't remember an example when it *did* work for me.
<persia> minghua: Only when people do -1.  It doesn't work for -0.1 either.
<minghua> Maybe -0 too, but that's what I mean by "smart enough".
<minghua> It's fair to require new-upstream NMUers know what they are doing.
<minghua> persia: I don't think parsing changelog is a good idea, though.
<persia> minghua: Why not?
<minghua> I can't exactly pin down my feeling.  But one reason is people may prefer using -0ubuntu1, -0ubuntu2, ... in REVU.
<nenolod> there. now it's uploaded.
<minghua> No, that doesn't make sense.
<persia> minghua: That's a violation of recommendations
<minghua> persia: Oh really?  I didn't know.
<minghua> It's a valid scheme for Debian mentors.
<persia> minghua: More generally, my opinion is that if it's going to ever automatically add -sa, it should do it based on the information it has regarding the upstream version, rather than the revision number.  Otherwise, it should just play dumb.
<minghua> persia: I'll think about it.
<persia> minghua: It also breaks for people who extensively use Experimental (unless that got fixed: I haven't been paying as much attention to Debian for the past bit)
<nenolod>   pidgin-mpris_0.2.3-0ubuntu2.dsc: done.
<nenolod>   pidgin-mpris_0.2.3.orig.tar.gz: done.
<nenolod> that's better.
<minghua> There is no official version naming scheme for experimental anyway...  Is there?
<persia> minghua: Not really, but many people put -1 in experimental, and then -2 and -3 are showstopper fixes for early testers, and -4 or -5 drop into unstable, but this isn't really the right forum :)
 * nenolod waits for revu to notice that there's a newer upload
<StevenK> RAOF: Paste the link again?
<StevenK> Muahahaha
<StevenK> From Planet Ubuntu:
<StevenK> "The team were delighted to be joined by members of Greater London Linux User Group, Datahop IT and some awesome people from a little company called Canonical. Some random bloke calling himself âMark Shuttleworthâ turned up; we allowed him to join our party as he had bought a round of drinks and some nibbles."
<minghua> Actually, I think I read a serious "Who the hell is Mark Shuttleworth?" on a Chinese forum a few days ago.
<StevenK> Hah
<white> i hope that there was no melbourne release party, cos i did not get an invite :/
<nenolod> minghua, :D :D :D
 * white is always up for a beer, even if the enemy releases :)
<minghua> white: Oh, I was not aware that Windows has release parties as well. ;-)
<white> minghua: i somehow doubt that they let me in with a debian shirt, but when i ever happen to be in redmond, I will go into their hq with that shirt and a smile :)
<tonyyarusso> white: check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseParties
<nenolod> geeze
<nenolod> i keep forgetting to use -sa
<nenolod> i need to get more stoned clearly
<nenolod> ;p
<nenolod> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=387
<nenolod> tada
<nenolod> :P
<StevenK> RAOF: Successfully uploaded packages. ; $beers_owed[StevenK]++
<jdong> IntegerOverflowError: Unable to increment value
<StevenK> jdong: :-P
<nenolod> well anyway, pidgin-mpris is ready for review ;p
<ScottK> jdong's the local pidgin expert anyway.
<jdong> ROFL
<jdong> nice one
<ScottK> You get sharkattack fixed?
 * ScottK is to lazy to actually look.
<ScottK> jdong: ^^^
<nenolod> jdong, hi. sign off on that package mister pidgin expert
<nenolod> :(
<ScottK> jdong did some work the the pidgin package trying to backport it (so he may actually know something about it), but is not a MOTU.
<jdong> ScottK: not yet... will try to find some time tomorrow to walk over and turn it on
<ScottK> jdong: OK.  I think there's more discussion about backports testing recently and it'd be nice if the tools were working ...
<ScottK> Good night.
 * ScottK heads to bed.
<jdong> I've only trivially messed with pidgin for the sake of backporting; apart from that I'm pretty useless with pidgin
<jdong> ScottK: night
<ScottK> That's probably more than anyone else here.  You're still stuck with the expert lable.
<jdong> aww
<nenolod> imbrandon, thanks for your help earlier ;)
<imbrandon> nenolod: np
<nenolod> now hopefully someone will sign off on my packages
<nenolod> as gutsy has 1 mpris capable player
<nenolod> :P
<minghua> nenolod: Come here often and nudge people in the following months. :-)
<imbrandon> ok i'm off to sleep yall, have fun
<nenolod> minghua, it's on my autojoin
<nenolod> ;p
<siretart> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> siretart: i found what i needed in Hobbsee's .bashrc :) thanks
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: \o/
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: good thing tehre's no p/w's in it or anything
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sure, blame Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> yeah, yeah, it's all my fault.
<ajmitch> people these days
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: hehe yea dont put passwords in a shared system :)
<nenolod> who is this Hobbsee and why do i want to blame him?
<ajmitch> him?
<imbrandon> her
 * Hobbsee is a green alien.
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: oh of course :)
 * siretart is confused
<nenolod> imbrandon, yeah. she seemed happier than your average male.
<ajmitch> siretart: that's my normal state
<imbrandon> siretart: me 3
<siretart> might be related to my uptime today (~5mins)
<nenolod> but... english rules say "if unknown, assume it's male"
<nenolod> ;p
<ajmitch>  /whois Hobbsee
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> can't you tell from the ircname there? ;)
<nenolod> ajmitch, yeah. i partially wrote the ircd freenode uses ;)
<imbrandon> i think the sarah@ gives it away :)
<nenolod> Hobbsee, you're the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER?
<nenolod> WOW.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I was looking at the Flying Spaghetti Monster part
 * imbrandon dident actualy look
<Hobbsee> nenolod: yup :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, well.
<nenolod> you're my hero
<nenolod> :(
<imbrandon> ahh its not sarah@ anyhow, heck it took 6 months to convince her to make a diffrent hostname
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: :P
<ajmitch> launchpad tells all
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: dapper and such wouldnt let me have a long hostname.
<imbrandon> anyhow, i'm really off to sleep, been a long day, gnight
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: nice photo there on LP
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed!
<nenolod> imbrandon, you mean the whole people asking for naked pictures thing that happens on IRC didn't convince her?
<nenolod> imbrandon, she really must be a troll
<ajmitch> how disturbing
<nenolod> so notable that xkcd made a joke about it: http://www.xkcd.org/322/
<minghua> Hobbsee: How is "Hobbsee" pronounced, by the way?
<ajmitch> xkcd, what a wonderful repository of wisdom
<nenolod> hobb-see i assume
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
 * TheMuso prods dreamhost. Fix your damn core router already
<Hobbsee> minghua: "hobbs-ee"
<TheMuso> Ok, they have.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: wherever did that come from?
<minghua> Hobbsee: "ee" pronounced as in "see"?
<Hobbsee> minghua: yes
<TheMuso> Wow. Just got an FTBFS for lpia on hardy notice.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: which, where?
<ajmitch> that nick :)
<minghua> Hobbsee: Good, thanks.
 * persia thinks it's a diminuative construction
<Hobbsee> minghua: yes, hobb-see, i gues.  either way
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you know where i live, yet you dont know that?  :)
<minghua> persia: But Hobbs is last name...
<ajmitch> hehe :)
<ajmitch> and you still don't know where I live
<Hobbsee> true.  i did know
<persia> minghua: You've never introduced yourself as "Hua"?
<minghua> persia: Not really.  Chinese has a very different name using/introducing custom from westerns (or Japanese, for that matter).
 * persia will research that later
<minghua> persia: And I've never been introduced as "little Hua" when I was young...
<minghua> persia: And if you want to research, it also differs in Northern China and Southern China.
<minghua> (In other words, I suggest you to forget about this idea. :-)
<imbrandon> err damn it , how can i find out wtf the floppy drive is if its not /dev/fd0 or /dev/floppy but its listed in lsdev ?
 * siretart installs hardy in a virtualbox on gutsy. lets see how this works out
<StevenK> Heh, and what's the point, it has a new toolchain only
<siretart> StevenK: there is not really a point. I experiment if developing hardy in a vm fits my workflow better, since I'm using this laptop for daily work
<StevenK> Ah
<Hobbsee> siretart: wont it just break X majorly, and possibly be harder to debug in a VM?
<siretart> Hobbsee: this is a good question. there are guest additions, which provide xv and stuff
<siretart> however how good they work out in practice, we'll see
<Hobbsee> siretart: true.  except not in the gutsy package, iirc
<siretart> Hobbsee: no, you need to download them from the website
<siretart> fortunately, the virtualbox-ose package has integrated this in its UI
<Hobbsee> siretart: indeed.
<Hobbsee> ahh, nice!
<siretart> yay virtualbox_1.5.2-25433_Ubuntu_gutsy_amd64.deb <- great example for well formed binary package filename :/
<Hobbsee> heh
<minghua> Would dpkg accept that?
<siretart> sure
<persia> minghua: The words are just extra revision info
<minghua> Oh, but what's it's Version: in DEBIAN/control?
<minghua> Surely you can't have 1.5.2-25433_Ubuntu_gutsy there?
<siretart>  Package: virtualbox
<siretart>  Version: 1.5.2-25433_Ubuntu_gutsy
<ajmitch> that's interesting
 * minghua accepts defeat.
 * TheMuso should give virtualbox a whilr at some point.
<TheMuso> whirl
<siretart> hm. the rdp server seems to work just fine
<dary1> anyone know how to get suspend/resume working for wireless networks?
<TheMuso> Hey norsetto.
<norsetto> Hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> dary1: #ubuntu for support.
<norsetto> hiya all
<dary1> ok - sorry
<proppy> hi
<norsetto> hi proppy, how is it?
<proppy> norsetto: nice, just received 2x10kg packages from japan :)
<Hobbsee> wow, it's quiet....
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Theres nothing to do.
<TheMuso> I'd do the minutes from last night's meeting, but I'm a little tired.
<coNP[uni]> Hey Hobbsee, TheMuso
<StevenK> TheMuso: Play in the traffic.
<Hobbsee> The
<Hobbsee> ahhh.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: gah.
<TheMuso> StevenK: um.... right
<Hobbsee> playing in the traffic is bad, mmmkay?
<TheMuso> That I am well aware of.
 * Hobbsee is going thru and unsubscribing from a whole bunch of bugmail
<Hobbsee> no, that was to StevenK
 * Hobbsee now has a hardy tarball.  yay!
<tiagoboldt> I've already read and learned how to package into .debs applications. I've tried it out for a while but, what now? Where can I start being helpful?
<sladen> tiagoboldt: #ubuntu-motu
<sladen> D'oh.
<Fujitsu> sladen: This is #ubuntu-motu, isn't it?
<sladen> D'oh.
<sladen> D'oh.
<sladen> D'oh.
<tiagoboldt> :x
<tiagoboldt> missed the point..
<norsetto> tiagobold: what about some packaging bugs?
<sladen> tiagoboldt: it's an automatic reaction when people ask on other channels.  I was being particularly thick in this case.
 * TheMuso wishes we didn't have dinner so late... Suerly got to do with my tirdness now. :p
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=packaging
<tiagoboldt> nice:)
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: come back here and ask for help if it is needed; for sponsoring subscribe u-u-s
<tiagoboldt> after have it packaged, where shhould I submit it?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<tiagoboldt> what's uus?
<Hobbsee> ubuntu universe sponsors
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: give me the time to fetch the link :-)
 * Hobbsee ponders forwarning tiagoboldt
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, bookmarking it all, thanks :D
<norsetto> Hobbsee: I need to talk to you (no, I don't need money ....)
<Hobbsee> norsetto: go for it
<Hobbsee> heh :)
<norsetto> Hobbsee: you remember that person we talked about yesterday, the one that applied to about 9720323 launchpad groups?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: yeah, but not the name
<norsetto> Hobbsee: well, today I only received two emails
<Hobbsee> norsetto: feel free to /query
<norsetto> Hobbsee: I was wondering if, being a she, is there not an ubuntu women group?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: there is a ubuntu-women group.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: becuase I think all she need is somebody to talk to: https://launchpad.net/~1024kb
<Hobbsee> but it's not necessary to be a part of it, being a woman and oding ubuntu stuff, of course
<TheMuso> Ok, I'm off.
<norsetto> themuso: what? and the package you promised me to review in revu?
<TheMuso> norsetto: What package?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: actually, looking at that page, that's not a bad idea.
<norsetto> TheMuso: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=378
<norsetto> Hobbsee: yeah, I thought you could be the right person I could talk to about it
<TheMuso> I didn't promise anything.
<norsetto> TheMuso: you didn't?
<TheMuso> norsetto: Not that I know of.
<norsetto> TheMuso: ah! You just didn't know
<TheMuso> no
<TheMuso> I'll have a look tomorrow however.
<norsetto> TheMuso: jokes aside, if you really have nothing else you do, and if you feel like doing it, please give it a look, I will appreciate
<TheMuso> norsetto: Will do so tomorrow.
 * TheMuso is too tired to concentrate at this point.
<norsetto> TheMuso: take it easy, sleep tight!
<TheMuso> Thanks, will do.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: ops, that must have been my query .....
<Hobbsee> (sorry)
<Hobbsee> nah, power ran out, so i tried to suspend - and that fell over.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: please re-/query
<hellboy195> hoi :)
<papo> hi hellboy195
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<sebastian^> hi bddebian
<hellboy195> hoi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello sebastian^, hellboy195
<norsetto> bbdebian: salutations
<bddebian> Heya norsetto
<sebastian^> hmm interesting conversation :)
<norsetto> is anyone around here using xulrunner?
<hellboy195> cya guys
<bsund> i'm thinking of starting to contribute to universe.. but it takes some learning about how to make them.. i don't care about it.. i just wanna make sure it's worth it.. the thing that got me started was that azureus and xmoto has'nt  changed since feisty.. and they are kinda old.. so should i start or start making requests? i don't wanna make like 3 packages and see that everything else is good
<CyberMatt> hello i uploaded a package to REVU about a week ago and no one has  commented on it yet did i do somthing wrong
<bddebian> CyberMatt: No, since we are in between releases people tend to take some time and decompress
<bddebian> I'll try to take a look early next week at REVU if I can, though I have a management meeting most of the week :-(
<CyberMatt> lag
<bsund> bddebian, do you need contributers or are you fine with requests.. i thought at first that there was a reason why stuff was outdated.. that no changes unless crucial... but after gutsy.. same old stuff
<bddebian> bsund: Sorry, I don't quite get your question?
<CyberMatt> has anyone ever considered apt via bit torrent
<bsund> bddebian, if you want a package you need, you have two choices? contribute or request? and i was asking if you had so much people contributing that a request would be done fast?
<hellboy195> hi :)
<CyberMatt> upgrading to gutsy is killing my tubes
<bddebian> bsund: Unfortunately no, we need lots more contributors :-)
<CyberMatt> as in download speed
<bsund> oki, i'll try to learn more about it :) and try to chat some more to get my english straight ;)
<bsund> i didn't want to learn all the deb stuff just to make a few debs, but if it's needed i might be able to to do some worthwhile stuff with it
<jamesfoster> I'm not a packaging expert, but it seems to me that making Debian/Ubuntu packages is a lot more difficult than it should be.
<bsund> i thinks there's a reason why people loathe yum and praise apt :)
<jamesfoster> I don't mind this, but I suspect that developers coming from a Windows background may find it pretty unappealing.
<bsund> i agree it's alot to deal with, thats why i asked in here :) but sort it out get it straight and it will (hopefully) work! ;)
<jamesfoster> I don't mind putting the work in, but I'm just curious about why there hasn't been any sort of initiative to make it easier.
<bsund> if anyone could makedeb woot-src.tar.gz all systems would brake at the end.. i think and hope there's a reason why there's a bit of tinkering
<luk_> hmm, there are lots of initiatives to make it easier
<luk_> it's also already a lot easier than it used to be...
<bsund> one thing i've always thought about.. people say linux is secure, how hard is it to get a backdoor into any package? is there any security there?
<bsund> so it have to be some walls between which make it hard to get a package through i think
<jamesfoster> luk_: I guess what I have in mind is a GUI that performs some validation on fields, as well as showing novice packagers what fields they need to have so that they don't miss anything important. A missing value is more glaringly obvious in a GUI than it is in a text file.
<luk_> noone is stopping people from writing GUIs to do packaging, though I guess there are not many people who are bothered enough to help you...
<bsund> jamesfoster, that's what i got turned off of.. i did the dh_make and it says "license: blank" but if you look at COPYING it is GPL all over.. so i was like how will it look at the depend stuff?
<slangasek> license auditing is not something that software does well.
<bsund> but i have no problem with it.. i think it's fine.. i think it _should_ be some trenches to cross over to make sure the one who did it isn't a blank idiot and that the package wouldnt brake the system
<jamesfoster> luk_: I realise that. I'm just wondering whether there's any major problems you know of that I'm not considering?
<bsund> but it's just the reason why i'm here to ask if there's need for contributers or there is to much contributers and no requests
<luk_> if you're thinking about syntax validation, then that would be a big improvement, though other validation is more difficult...
<luk_> though I guess much is already done in lintian/linda for validation...
<luk_> so no need to start from scratch if you really are serious about a GUI for packaging
<bsund> slangasek, sry i'm not into this stuff but i sure wanna get into it, in what way is it well if it does'nt look into COPYING when it does pretty much the same stuff elsewhere
<bsund> <- need to improve typing
<bsund> this chan is kinda dead :) i don't get it, such a huge distribution when it comes to users.. but kinda dead when it comes to development..
<bsund> i want to see like ppl racing.. like.. -> dumbass your package came 0.001ms after mine retard ;)
<bsund> the philosophy has always been, if you don't like it, make it better.. if this turns out like.. luser has no place all hail canonicial.. ubuntu wont turn out better then microsoft
<bsund> canonicial/canonical
<Amaranth> bsund: we just had a release
<Amaranth> and it's a weekend
<bsund> it sounds like you're >10ppl ;)
<bsund> but i don't get it tbh.. it's universe, it should be on bleeding age
<bsund> s/age/edge
<superm1> ScottK, you here by chance?
<superm1> or another member of motu-uvf?
<ScottK> Yes
<geser> ScottK: when you are here, can you check if the debdiff in bug #154136 qualifies for -proposed as we can't get the new version into gutsy
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 154136 in gnumed-client "gnumed - "new upstream available" - 0.2.7.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154136
<ScottK> geser: Looking.
<superm1> ScottK, i haven't filed a bug yet (i will in a moment), but i have a very small diff that i wanted to make sure was fine by motu-uvf for mythbuntu-control-centre in principle to go for gutsy-updates.  mythbuntu-control-centre fails on amd64 if you haven't ever used medibuntu without it.http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1094/
<ScottK> geser: Go for it.
<geser> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> geser: Make sure you use a bug number than can't conflict with what's in Hardy.
<geser> sure, as usual
<ScottK> geser: I remind people because not everyone remembers to leave space for the hardy upload in their numbering.
<bsund> bah i love ubuntu so you might see me more here.. had a few beers and a scotch.. although i'll be bashing more around in future i'll hope ^^
<ScottK> superm1: Define "fails" more completely.  I guess I'd like to read the bug.
<superm1> ScottK, sorry, yeah i probably should have made it before i pinged.  i wasn't expecting a quick response.  give me a few moments :)
<superm1> bug 154985
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 154985 in mythbuntu-control-centre "MCC fails on amd64 if medibuntu hasn't been used in the past" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154985
<ScottK> superm1: ACK, so this will be 0.10-0ubuntu1.1, right?
<superm1> ScottK, yeah.
<bluefoxicy> VMware Player cannot be installed on your computer type (i386).
<bluefoxicy> o_o
<brandon_> i've been experiencing a bug, like a lot ofpeople. Logging into gnome or kde takes 30-40 seconds in gutsy. There is alrady a bug report, but nothing is being done because apparently none of us who has the bug is doing anything to help fix it. so i'm willing, and able, but what do i do?
<geser> please try it again during the week, most developers are now enjoying the weekend
<brandon_> very well
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: Gutsy doesn't have a package for that.
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  seems vmware was removed in favor of virtualbox
<ScottK> vmware-player was removed because the package we had was ancient, broken, and had no hope of working.
<ScottK> It wasn't in favor of anything.
<proppy> oy
<pwnguin> ok, what the heck does scrollkeeper DO?
<jdong> pwnguin: use 100% CPU for a few minutes? :D
<slangasek> pwnguin: provides an index/catalog for installed documentation (GNOME documentation, anyway)
<norsetto> always look on the bright side of life
<somerville32> I try to
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> there we are, peace is over
<norsetto> bddebian: boo :-)
<bddebian> Heh, heya norsetto
<hellboy195> bddebian: hoi ^^
<bddebian> Hello hellboy195
<norsetto> Can't believe this guys, the default paste key on my terminal is not ctrl-v, I will write to my mp
<imbrandon> anyone seen the Netsurf ( netsurf-browser.org ) for Linux ? i am having no luck finding it for anything but RISC OS but someone left a comment that it might be good for my low end system
<norsetto> imbrandon: isn't in debian?
<slangasek> netsurf seems to be in Debian now, yes
<norsetto> slangasek: guess that will be soon autosynced too
<slangasek> when hardy opens, yep
<norsetto> hardy: toc, toc
<imbrandon> slangasek / norsetto , ahh dumb of me, i should have checked debian
<imbrandon> slangasek: btw congrats on the release
<slangasek> imbrandon: thanks
<hellboy195> good night :D
<ScottK> norsetto: shift - insert is along time Linux/Unix standard for pasting.
<norsetto> scottK: sorry, it was a lame attempt at humour (re. people complaining about backspace in ff.....)
<ScottK> Ah.
 * ScottK recalls praising the day Ubuntu made backspace != back.
<imbrandon> ScottK: cept when your using a apple keyboard ( like me ) its shift+help :)
<imbrandon> and yes i use an apple keyboard on a x86
<ScottK> Hmmm.  Ok.
<norsetto> scottK: don't ask .....
 * ScottK doesn't
<imbrandon> err s/x86/non-apple hardware
<imbrandon> guess they are x86's now
<imbrandon> and numlock is apple(super)+clear
<imbrandon> hrm anyhow . back to looking at this package
<bddebian> Gads I hate copyright crap :-(
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> Hi bddebian.
<persia> Should I be uploading to fix received FTBFS reports, or is it better to still wait a bit?
<bddebian> persia: hey, I found another sound issue for ya ;-)
<persia> bddebian: Which?
<bddebian> Games package wok, but give me a sec to find what I did with the details :-)
<bddebian> Ah yes, undefined reference to ov_raw_seek.  I think it's either missing a -lvorbis or it's not pulling a proper header file in somewhere
<persia> compile-time or run-time?  Which package?
<bddebian> wok
<bddebian> build-time
<persia> Ah.  Sorry.  I misparsed "wok" as a mystyping of "work".  My apologies for the lack of confidence.
<bddebian> hehe, I can't imagine why you'd do that with me.. ;-)
<persia> It doesn't help that I can't find a "wok" package in either Ubuntu or Debian :)
<persia> Anyway, does -lvorbis show in the output?  Alternately, is libvorbis-dev (recursively) in build-depends?
<persia> The other possibility is the new strict headers rule, where every header referenced in a given source file must now actually be included in that source file, as opposed to randomly included in the larger scope of things.
<bddebian> persia: No it's in Games svn
<pwnguin> fun
<pwnguin> i didnt try to grab that game into my ppa
<bddebian> And no -lvorbis doesn't seem to appear but libvorbis-dev is a b-d
<pwnguin> i grabbed all the other ones from kenta cho though
<persia> bddebian: Might be a ./configure issue.  Hold on why I fight with the annoyance of grabbing the tarball from there
<pwnguin> where in gods name IS the debian Games SVN?
<slangasek> svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-games/ ?
<ScottK> persia: Upload to gutsy-proposed is OK with an ack from motu-uvf.
<persia> ScottK: The FTBFS is hardy/lpia.  I'm really not sure the fix belongs in gutsy-proposed :)
<norsetto> g'night all
<pwnguin> persia: how does one grab the tarball from there?
<persia> pwnguin: Painfully.  The easy way is to grab it from http://pkg-games.alioth.debian.org/tarballs/
<pwnguin> i think i'll do that then
<persia> bddebian: If nothing else, quilt-make should be included, and the calls set as dependencies, no?
<ScottK> persia: Ah.  No, don't upload for Hardy yet AFAIK.
<bddebian> persia: I would think
<persia> ScottK: That was my understanding, and I'm especially uncertain about FTBFS fix uploads, given the current focus.
<persia> bddebian: OK.  I have a build tree.  Tracking...
<persia> OOh.  Cool.  Upstream lives in my town.
<imbrandon> persia: where is that ?
<persia> imbrandon: Suginami-ku
<imbrandon> ah
<imbrandon> on the PPA's if i specify gutsy in the changelog will it build against gutsy or only the current development release ?
<imbrandon> ( or is this a #launchpad question )
<bddebian> bbl dinner time
<persia> bddebian: It's a GCC issue.  You need to explicity #include header files now.  That's also the reason for the build warnings for wok.c
<bddebian> Ah, OK
 * persia goes back to "testing" teg
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-21
<pwnguin> imbrandon: it builds against the changelog release. you could hit feisty if you wanted
<siretart> bddebian: are you icognito on oftc?
<bddebian> siretart: I was forced to change my nick :-)
<siretart> oh?
<bddebian> Yeah, marga wouldn't sponsor my uploads if I didn't change my nick
 * slangasek snorts
<TheMuso> ug
<bddebian> slangasek: ?
<slangasek> bddebian: the ircnick sponsoring requirement
<bddebian> Ah
<siretart> yes, espc. debian-women's seems to have very strong feelings about ubuntu
<siretart> no idea why, though
<bddebian> Well I changed it to fuckari but she didn't like that nick any better it seems ;-)
 * bddebian erases that
<LNX_opensrc8> hello
<LNX_opensrc8> afternoon every body
<bddebian> Boy do I know how to kill a conversation :-)
<bddebian> Hello LNX_opensrc8
<LNX_opensrc8> hello
<LNX_opensrc8> its a bit quiet here
<bddebian> Aye it's all the darn foreigners they're going to sleep ;-P
<bddebian> Or are asleep
<persia> What!  It's still morning here, and I'm sure I'm not in the same country as you.
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Actually it's only 8:35pm here
<bddebian> OK wok builds locally.. WTF build-dep is it missing..
<persia> bddebian: pastebin the error from sbuild/pbuilder
<bddebian> persia: http://pastebin.com/m5157402c
<persia> bddebian: And that works locally?  Hrm...
<bddebian> Aye, strange eh?
 * persia wishes aptitude silently ignored the ',' character in package names
<persia> bddebian: Could you include a bit more of the log?  I'm curious about the gcc ... sound.c ... line.
<persia> looking at my local log, it spits a warning only...
<bddebian> persia: Aye, I'll post a build log, give me a minute
<bddebian> persia: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/wok/wok_build.log
 * persia needs to learn objdump better
<bddebian> objdump -T /usr/lib/libfoo.so |grep get_foo ;-)
<bddebian> So do I as you can see :-)
<persia> bddebian: So what I don't understand is why it builds locally.  I can't even find ov_raw_seek by hand.  It's in the header, but I don't see it in the library...
<bddebian> It's not in libvorbisfile.so?
<bddebian> It is locally
<persia> bddebian: Umm..  Yes.  Apparently aptitude can parse dependencies better than I :)
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Took me a while to figure that out too :_)
<persia> Now this is interesting.  It even builds locally in a clean snapshot chroot.
<bddebian> wth
<bddebian> Hmm, it seems miriam is obsessed with Kenta Cho :-)
 * persia points at http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=107
<bddebian> Oh, that's Baby. Hmm, then who is mruiz?
<persia> bddebian: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/41461/ shows touched libraries in a local link (post-debuild)
 * persia doesn't understand why this doesn't work in an automated build
 * bddebian either
<nenolod> wow. the internal description for edgy was "fire up the crackpipes"?
<pwnguin> well that was a wierd video lecture to nap through...
<nenolod> napping through a webinar. tut tut.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> well, i havent gotten my wiimote set up to control multimedia yet
<nenolod> wiimote? :P
<pwnguin> but when i went to sleep, he was talking about graph theory and how shortest string superset isnt appropriate for genomic sequences
<pwnguin> when i woke up, he was talking about hypervisors
<pwnguin> at least when you nap through a google video, you know you didnt wake up in the next class
<pwnguin> yes, wiimote
<pwnguin> #ubuntu-effects redirects to compiz-fusion now?
<bddebian> persia: Did you say you were testing teg?
<fernando_> bddebian, thank you very much.
<bddebian> fernando_: NP
<Da_Clover> hey
<persia> good evening Da_Clover
<bddebian> hello Da_Clover
<bddebian> persia: Did you say you were testing teg?
<persia> bddebian: It's a daily thing :)
<bddebian> ahh :-)
 * persia looks for bug reports to justify the claim...
<bddebian> Well it shouldn't be including config.{sub,guess} :-)
 * persia finds 10 other real bugs with more impact than autofoo hackery, but promises to look at that while chasing the others
<bddebian> :-)
<Da_Clover> hello
<Da_Clover> i', back =P
<Da_Clover> i heard from a budy that ubuntu is pretty impressive
<Da_Clover> i havnt tested it myself
<Da_Clover> hmm i guess its just me and me
<Da_Clover> i think v7 has too many colors
<rob> Da_Clover, this isn't really a general discussion channel, try #ubuntu-offtopic instead :)
<Da_Clover> rob: thanks ;)
<rob> no probs
<Da_Clover> i'm a newbie here so whate is motu?
<rob> Masters of the Universe, they look after the Ubuntu universe repository
<Da_Clover> oic ty
<jessie> help?
<ramvi> Hi! I learned how to program in C++ at collage and would like to contribute. Ive read a lot on the ubuntu wiki, but I cant seem to find a "how to start" kind of thing. What application should I use to develop in C++ and what application should I use to make the GUI?
<TheMuso> ramvi: `This channel is for development related to Ubuntu packaging, and not for application development.
<ramvi> Oh, so I will not get an answer? Is glade the default application in ubuntu for making the front end?
<norsetto> what is the policy for changes to ubuntu-dev bzr branches?
<geser> there is a policy?
<nxvl> ubuntu has a meeting like debconf?
<norsetto> geser: you mean, do as much damage as you like as soon as you clean it up afterwards?
<Treenaks> nxvl: I've never been to a DebConf, but is the UDS what you're looking for?
<nxvl> Treenaks: ah?
<nxvl> ah ok, i understand now
<nxvl> i meen a huge developers meeting
<nxvl> with conferences, hackatons, etc..
<ajmitch> UDS isn't really like that, since it's focused on discussions & producing specifications
<nxvl> but not on conferences
<nxvl> stuff in the UDS is a part of the debconf
<Amaranth> err, no
<Amaranth> UDS is more like...a bunch of meetings
<norsetto> geser: really, is there some kind of guide, or I just do my little hack, commit and push?
<Amaranth> norsetto: well, you need to update the changelog
<norsetto> Amaranth: he, I figured that much :-)
<Amaranth> norsetto: and one nice thing to do is to set the release to UNRELEASED or something so people know they can add to that version
<norsetto> Amaranth: ah, thx for that
<Amaranth> then right before someone uploads the package they change it to gutsy or hardy or whatever
<Kmos> Can someone nuke this one? - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=363
<norsetto> Kmos: any particular reason?
<Kmos> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=362
<Kmos> and tihs one too
<Kmos> norsetto: it will be released at debian, and the second has a debdiff attached to the bug report
<norsetto> kmos: I just archived them, just in case. Can you pls. confirm in a week?
<Kmos> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=363 -> it will be relased under debian, i asked seb128 because he's the maintainer there
<Kmos> tellico don't be released at debian, but it's waiting for nixternal =)
<Kmos> when hardy opens
<norsetto> kmos: kmos, if we nuke, they are gone for good, so, I would wait until galculator is released before nuke it, and tellico is fix released before nuke it
<norsetto> kmos: unless tellico should not actually be in REVU (which I wonder ....)
<Kmos> :-)
<Kmos> ok
<norsetto> kmos: actually, I think tellico should be in REVU, and I guess nix asked you to do the debdiff because he wanted to check out what the delta was
<Kmos> i've put it in revu first
<norsetto> kmos: I indeed see changes not reported in the changelog
<norsetto> kmos: are these carry over from previous ubuntu changes?
<norsetto> kmos: also look at the way nix did the changelog, you notice he carried over all the ubuntu changes?
<Kmos> norsetto: yes. i start from latest diff in ubuntu
<norsetto> kmos: well, as I said there are changes there not in the changelog, and they don't appear to be from previous versions (at least looking at the changelog)
<hellboy195> morning :)
<Kmos> norsetto: I need to check that out
<norsetto> kmos: please make sure also that you roll over all the previous ubuntu chnages in the changelog 9the way nix did it)
<Kmos> norsetto: ok
<lamego> hello
<lamego> I would like to submit a patch, to -updates, I should use the sponsorship process, correct ?
<lamego> erm, -proposed, whatever :)
<norsetto> lamego: yes
<lamego> this patch was provided by upstream, I am not an user of this application, should I create a LP bug record anyway ?
<Hobbsee> yes
<norsetto> afternoon Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya
<norsetto> no wait, its evening, time flies so fast in oz
<sebastian^> good morning folks
<bluefoxicy> is it even possible to make deb patches or something?
<bluefoxicy> someone just updated openoffice.org-kde (I'm not on kubuntu) and I'm getting like a 200MB update for it that's not actually changing anything on my system except the installed version number
<persia> bluefoxicy: It's possible, but not trivial (and as yet, an unsolved problem).  One thing to consider if you are looking through existing work to implement such a thing is preserving the ability to verify the installed files from the md5sums, while also verifying the files to be installed from their md5sums.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  deb-v1 -> deb-v2, keep the md5sums and install paths from deb-v2 but discard the binary-identical files, check the files installed through dpkg (via the alternatives system or whatever if the package manager has moved them)
<bluefoxicy> persia:  more interesting, source produces 50 debs; how about if you make a trivial change that impacts one deb, the others don't get updates >.>
<bluefoxicy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/153132 for example updated openoffice.org-kde but I'm not using that package.  I had to re-install all of OpenOffice.org
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153132 in openoffice.org "Openoffice splash screen includes Ubuntu logo" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Hobbsee> ah yes, someone's already filed a bug on that too.  yay
<persia> bluefoxicy: The second is more interesting, but given that the changelog is distributed with each binary package, the package will have differed, so you still need to have sub-package updates.
<bluefoxicy> mn
<bluefoxicy> persia:  this is hammering the mirrors and annoying 128K ISDN line users I'm sure ;)
<persia> bluefoxicy: For some aspects of the regular update, there has been some progress (e.g. http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/439), but it's an ongoing issue.
<persia> Oh, I'm sure it's not ideal, I just wanted to stress some of the difficulties.  If you can find a good solution, including a sane algorithm to determine when one wants a diff, and when one wants a new download (in terms of local processing as well as bandwidth), it would be a huge win for all .deb distributions.  It's just hard.
<bluefoxicy> mmn
<persia> bluefoxicy: http://www.tjansen.de/debiff/ might be a starting point, although that was not received well in http://lists.debian.org/debian-dpkg/2000/12/msg00000.html
<persia> bluefoxicy: Another trick you might try is attempting to find a way to rsync a local package cache (prepared with an apt proxy), thereby only downloading differences, yet not requiring adjustments to the core tools.  Of course, this only works for you, but...
<bluefoxicy> persia:  having a control file to manually create something may be iffy; automatically generating such diffs shouldn't be a difficult problem once you have a format
<lamego> Traceback (most recent call last):
<lamego>   File "/usr/local/bin/requestsponsor", line 37, in <module>
<lamego> anyone used the requestsponsor script ?
<persia> lamego: That happens sometimes :)  You can also do it manually with the "subscribe someone else" link.
<lamego> "that happens sometimes" :P ? What about fixing it ?
<persia> bluefoxicy: The other aspect to consider is mirror size & bandwidth requirements.  As I said, if you can find a good solution after looking at previous work and commentary on this problem, it would be good for everyone.
<lamego> persia, what is the role of the script ? subscribe a team to the LP bug ?
<persia> lamego: I don't actually understand the cause (and don't like requestsponsor for other reasons).  If you understand the problem, a patch would be welcome.
<persia> lamego: It attaches a debdiff to the bug, and subscribes a team.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  mirror size is a question of administration, as is bandwidth
<bluefoxicy> persia:  I can diff from every previous version of anything, but eventually first + all 99999999 diffs > snapshot in terms of bytes.
<persia> bluefoxicy: Right.  It has also been previously proposed that to reduce mirror size for diffs, they be generated at request time, but this requires mirror compute cycles.
<lamego> persia, I don't care about the script neither, I was just using because it was on the primary instructions
<lamego> I should subcribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug ?
<bluefoxicy> persia:  Out of the air, I would say a possible strategy may entail having a flat .deb as version 0 on release day; a flat .deb on a major (i.e. large-diff) release; a flat .deb when the total deb-diff size approaches m% of a flat .deb size; and a flat .deb after (n) diffs
<persia> lamego: If the package is in universe, yes.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  with a diff being generated each time except for the case where a release produces a deb-diff almost the size of the debs
<bluefoxicy> persia:  this would, generically, mean that on a MAJOR update (deb-diff the size of the debs) everyone gets a package; otherwise, those mostly up-to-date can get diffs, while those significantly behind can get a recent deb and step up with a few diffs
<bluefoxicy> Of course, this means you have to figure out a -good- way to make diff debs :)
<persia> bluefoxicy: That may work for some things.  Something else to consider is that lots of updates usually only happen during a development cycle, and it's not rare for users to miss revisions in their upgrade plans.  For stable releases, the updates go to the -updates repositories, so the original .deb files aren't present for the first update.
<bluefoxicy> (which is the hard part)
<bluefoxicy> persia:  irrelevant.  Nothing says that a repository has to hold original .deb files in the first place.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  This concern only brings to light a specific design consideration.  :)
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: you want to speak to sladen, iirc.  he was looking into this for gutsy
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  he missed :)
<Hobbsee> well, obviously.  commit good code, and see if you hit :)
<persia> bluefoxicy: Right.  I'm just trying to share some of the previous objections I've seen.  If you've a better design, please propose it.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  nods.
<persia> bluefoxicy: Also consider that there are alternatives for users with significant bandwidth constraints (e.g. tools that allow offline updates (even such tools for foreign operating environments)).  Further, aside from the -updates issue, using rsync to keep a local mirror up-to-date (fits on a single hard drive) isn't necessarily very bandwidth intensive, so it's really only the desktop user with the slow connection who is affected.
<bluefoxicy> mmm.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  yet with those same alternatives, the same process could apply.  aptoncd could get a bunch of diffs, and then could burn an OpenOffice.org update to a 50MB CD ;)
<persia> Aside from needing a good design, and good code, a proposed solution needs to solve a problem for a signficant portion of the userbase to be implemented on the entire mirror network.  Perhaps this meets that criteria, but some hard numbers would help.
<bluefoxicy> Main advantage being that it puts less stress on the repository.
<sladen> bluefoxicy: delta debs
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  hi :)
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  Hobbsee said you have been working on such.  How are you with that?
<persia> bluefoxicy: Right.  Smaller updates for aptoncd might be good as well.  Choose the right problem, design the right solution, target the right userbase, and you'll have a win.
<sladen> bluefoxicy: read up  http://archive.fosdem.org/2007/schedule/events/debian_delta_upgrades  (there's video)
<sladen> bluefoxicy: video from another talk I did to the UK network operators forum:  http://www.zepler.tv/rss/uknof06.xml
<bluefoxicy> persia, sladen:  another consideration is bzdiff(?) thing that can diff out a patch from a binary file ... making a 1 line change a few bytes instead of a 1.5K file, but that's nit-picking (unless you updated something in a header that changed like 15K in a 200MB code base in random files)
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  nice.
<bluefoxicy> aha you got the bsdiff issue already :)
<sladen> bluefoxicy: watch the videos and get yourself up to speed with all the corner-cases/side cases, then it will be easier to have a worthwhile discussion
<persia> bluefoxicy: the tricky bit with bsdiff/xdiff/etc. is that it makes md5sum verification of the to-be-installed files pre-installation processor-intensive.  For some applications, this is not preferred.
<bluefoxicy> (this would beat the hell out of RPM too)
<persia> bluefoxicy: Well, the RPM people are looking at the same thing (with the same current lack of success).
<bluefoxicy> persia:  how does verification become processor intensive in that situation though?  It seems to me to add a patch phase (patch a copy of the old file, verify)... is that processor intensive itself?
<sladen> bluefoxicy: go read up
<sladen> bluefoxicy: then come back with questios
<bluefoxicy> (verification of the old file can be safely skipped if you want to trust sha1sum and md5sum to do what you think they do)
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  that video is giving me a black screen >.> <.< guess I can't view it with totem-mozilla
<persia> bluefoxicy: Right.  The target machine needs to pre-apply the patch in RAM, compute the md5sum with the preapplied patch, and then proceed with the next file.  Once it's all done, it can proceed with unpacking.  For people with 256MB RAM & a slower processor, that can be very painful.
 * bluefoxicy downloads for viewing
<bluefoxicy> persia:  in RAM?  Temporary files...?
<persia> bluefoxicy: You don't want to skip verification of the old file.  What if the user modified it?  You need to at least warn them that you are overwriting.
<persia> bluefoxicy: If temporary files, where do they go?  Does everyone have enough space in /tmp to dist-upgrade?
<sladen> bluefoxicy: (1) right click download  (2) totem
<bluefoxicy> persia:  I'm thinking if you md5/sha1 a post-patched file to test it BEFORE replacing the old file with it, it should verify.  It'll not verify properly if the user modified it, or else the hash algorithm you're using is far too easy to create collisions in
<bluefoxicy> persia:  single file at a time.  I can't keep the whole of openoffice.org-core in memory either @_@  (well I can, but it's going to trash my disk cache and push some stuff out to swap)
<persia> bluefoxicy: Sure, but you still need to do that for every file in the package prior to applying any of them.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  i could ask if everyone has enough space in /tmp to burn a CD, but we've already seen this problem with DVD burning in nautilus :)
<persia> bluefoxicy: What happens if the 432nd file is corrupted?
<persia> Sure, but not everyone needs to burn a CD.  Everyone needs to apply security updates.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  that's a good question.  I guess while we're considering CPU power as a problem this isn't a solution; but you can roll the files back by reverse-patching them (creating a reverse patch on-the-fly with each replacement if you can't just bsdiff -R like with patch)
<bluefoxicy> unless of course the user races and alters the newly-patched file ;)
<persia> bluefoxicy: That might be less painful.  processor-intesive though.  If nothing else, it needs to be optional.
<sladen> bluefoxicy: nÂ² problem;  diff from every version to every version is alot of patches.
<bluefoxicy> and of course, since this whole process takes a while, the user might open the program while some of its files are being replaced; but that's just a longer window version of the same race condition you get with any patching process.
<persia> bluefoxicy: Just in case it's not obvious, neither sladen nor I is attempting to discourage you, just to help input things into your design :)
<sladen> no, becaues you build the .deb and install it
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  got the vid
<sladen> bluefoxicy: first 15minutes is mvo talking about the status quo and pdiff;  rest covers possible solutions
 * persia notes that pdiff is really annoying for people with no bandwidth constraints
<bluefoxicy> nort point nine?
<bluefoxicy> what?
<lamego> is anyone familiar with mandvd ?
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  reverse rsync?
<sladen> bluefoxicy: -> watch
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  nineteen inch?
<sladen> bluefoxicy: my consultancy
<bluefoxicy> ah.
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  Canonical isn't publicly traded so it's fair game to pull my NOVL stock right before the next release right ;)
<bluefoxicy> (NOVL's stock dropped on release day of Gutsy; Google marked that with a news tag for Gutsy's release)
<sladen> bluefoxicy: I think Googles algorithms are all automatic
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  I'm really looking forward to seeing how this works though, in any case.  I'm more than tired of having to download huge updates for one-line changes in one package that comes from some source that forces me to bring in 50 other non-updated packages :x
<bluefoxicy> or things like "... fixed build flags on SPARC"
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  yeah, it was a joke.  I was amused at Google's explanation is all.  :)
<sladen> SCOX is doing well, +20% today.  Invest quick
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> mmm Optimus Prime replica selling for 50k on eBay , heh
<imbrandon> that would be a nice ride to own
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> I could see you driving through KC with that
<imbrandon> hell yea, with a missouri kubuntu lic plate
<imbrandon> http://www.comnetslash.com/2007/10/21/optimus-prime-truck-is-going-for-50k-on-ebay/
<nixternal> oh that is a sharp truck
<nixternal> 55,400
<nixternal> bid on it bad boy :)
<imbrandon> heh if i had 50k i would
<nixternal> http://tinyurl.com/yomam2
<nixternal> that is the one I am watching
<nixternal> I want another one, and for $2k, I am all over that
<sladen> think how many summer of code/bounties you could finance with 50k
<nixternal> hehe
<imbrandon> sladen: think how many tween age kids i could preach about ubuntu to when i pull up in optimus
<nixternal> imbrandon: we started doing a CPUZ knock off dubbed CpuX, but it has been in limbo for a while because everyone working on it has been super busy
<nixternal> that, and I am not the big Python fan just yet
<imbrandon> cat /proc/cpuinfo ?
<nixternal> no, tying in with lm_sensors and such
<imbrandon> i actualy thought about using c# and the new qt bindings
<imbrandon> to do just that
<imbrandon> the rock your socks thing about cpuz though is its a small ( under 1mb ) self contained binary, no deps and no installation
<imbrandon> kinda hard to do in c# or python
<nixternal> plus dmidecode provides more than cat /proc/cpuinfo and such
<nixternal> oh no, time to go...back later...install fest and release party time
<imbrandon> l8tr
<norsetto> geser: ping
<norsetto> greetings and salutations to bddebian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi norsetto
<geser> Hi bddebian
<geser> norsetto: pong
<norsetto> hey geser, was wondering if you did the transition package subject of bug 155341
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155341 in sylpheed-claws-gtk2 "Package will not install because of "unmet dependencies"" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155341
<bddebian> Hi geser
<norsetto> geser: don't get it, if its a bug with apt-get or we need a versioned conflict
<geser> norsetto: claws-mail should produce transitional packages
<norsetto> geser: it does indeed, but installing the transitional packages do not install claws-mail
<norsetto> geser: see that claws-mail conflicts and replaces sylpheed-claws-gtk2, so installing sylpheed-claws-gtk2 should install claws-mail only
<norsetto> geser: the conflict is not resolved as per spec, thats why I say it is perhaps a bug with apt-get, now I'm trying to version the conflict to see what happens
<geser> norsetto: yes
<geser> the current debian package has the same replace/conflict
<norsetto> geser: have you got a sid chroot? I've got one and could try to install it there
<geser> norsetto: no
<geser> norsetto: could you check it?
<norsetto> geser: yes, as soon as I finish this build
<geser> thanks
<geser> norsetto: I move that bug from sylpheed-claws-gtk2 to claws-mail
<norsetto> geser: versioning the conflict works, let me check in sid now
<norsetto> geser: just upgrading, its few weeks I don't use it, I hope its over soon
<norsetto> geser: do you see the point in this (<< ${source:Version}.1~)? I mean, now its 2.10.0-3ubuntu3.1 so that would become << 2.10.0-3ubuntu3.1.1~
<geser> norsetto: it tries to depend on the same version as the sylpheed-claws-gtk2 package but allows bin-NMUs (bin-NMUs are only used in Debian)
<norsetto> geser: yes, thats why I'm asking, should we get rid of that?
<geser> no, unless it's causing a problem (keep the delta small, especially for -proposed/-updates uploads)
<norsetto> geser: right
<fbond> Hi, what is the correct procedure to get an updated package into hardy.  This package was originally uploaded via revu.  I am the maintainer.  Should I put the package back into revu?
<fbond> I only have small changes, really, to fix a few bugs.
<norsetto> geser: at least versioning the Conflicts works, its not elegant but it does the job (leaving the transitional package installed, oh well)
<norsetto> fbond: the package is already in hardy I understand?
<geser> fbond: create a bug with the debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors and wait till hardy opens for uploads
<geser> norsetto: does sid have the same problem?
<fbond> geser: Should I simply attach a debdiff to an existing bug, or should I create a new bug?
<norsetto> geser:still upgrading, but its almost finished
<geser> fbond: if there is already one for the issue you can attach it there
<fbond> geser: thanks!
<geser> StevenK: I guess you got also a mail from the Debian maintainer for twinkle (it's about bug #155249)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155249 in twinkle "twinkle fails at missing shared library" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155249
<StevenK> That rings a bell
<StevenK> geser: It seems the Depends are missing - if you look at comment 2
<norsetto> geser: same problem in sid
<StevenK> geser: I can sort out what is going on when I wake up if you wish - I think I know what is going on
<geser> StevenK: I don't know where the second linkage to libccgnu2 comes from (I guess it's indirect)
<geser> StevenK: thanks
<StevenK> Oh, if it's indirect linkage, than my thought won't solve it
<StevenK> In which twinkle may need some -Wl,--as-needed love
<geser> I tried it on amd64 but there it didn't mention that missing libccgnu2
<geser> StevenK: I tried running ldd on the twinkle binary in a i386 chroot (only extracted the deb, not installed, so the depends were missing) and didn't see it there
<geser> norsetto: will you report a bug about it to Debian?
<StevenK> geser: In which case indirect linkage looks to be it
<norsetto> geser: sure, but to me it is a bug with apt
<StevenK> I think it's in a bug in twinkle
<geser> StevenK: I've checked yet if it happens in my i386 chroot (didn't want to install KDE there) and which lib it is which pulls the second libccgnu2 in
<StevenK> geser: At this point, I'm about ten seconds from being comatose, so I will fiddle after I wake up
<geser> StevenK: ok, sleep well
<neversfelde> can somebody explain "1:1.0.1-1build2" to me. The "build" extension is for packages, which are only rebuild in ubuntu and nothing is changed for the rest, or not?
<bddebian> Typically those are for packages rebuilt against newer libraries
<bddebian> buildx versions should get ignored and are synced automagically, where ubuntuX versions need manual merging
<bluefoxicy> so I can't find the .torrent files on the download site
<neversfelde> bddebian: ok, thx. and what about this 1: at the beginning?
<bluefoxicy> instead of "Please choose a location" maybe it should say "Download via bittorrent" and just pick a random mirror (the torrent is small); or maybe there should be a checkbox "get via bittorrent" or something (that seems pointless considering the .torrent is small)
<bluefoxicy> Who knows.  I just manually browsed the mirror for the file.
<bddebian> neversfelde: That is an epoch and really ugly.  I'm not sure I could explain it well.  You should probably check out Debians New Maintainer Guide.  Essentially it is a way of re-versioning a package if a mistake is made or if upstream changes versioning schemes
<neversfelde> bddebian: I will give The New Maintainer Guide a closer look. Thank you
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  you about?
<bddebian> neversfelde: NP
<sladen> bluefoxicy: I'm always around
<norsetto> bddebian: I though the 1: was linked to the soname somehow
<bddebian> Not that I know of but I'm kinda dumb ya know ;-)
<norsetto> bddebian: well, you explained it pretty well
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  Something completely unrelated to earlier
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  Downloading from the Internet is slow, and taxes the mirrors.  Microsoft has this WSUS server that manages updates...
<bluefoxicy> In theory, Ubuntu could deploy an apt-proxy server for a centralized management server
<bluefoxicy> But, who needs to manage stuff?
<norsetto> bddebian: in the policy it says: "it is not intended to cope ... with silly orderings (1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1, 2.1, 2.2, 2, etc.)" :-)
<bluefoxicy> Let's say for a moment a home user has 5 computers on his network (laptops etc).  Avahi is open by default; why not have a service that publishes whichever deb packages are still cached by a computer via mdns, so if anyone on the local net has a package you just grab it.
<sladen> bluefoxicy: blueprint it.
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  that's not quite delta debbing, and it's (more importantly) not a replacement; this kind of thing, where useful, could stand on its own or supplement delta debs.  But, do you think it's any useful to begin with?
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  mm, guess that's an answer :)
<sladen> bluefoxicy: reflecting out updates to other computers on the local network would actually be useful
<sladen> localised bittorrent
<bluefoxicy> yes
<ScottK> norsetto: I don't think your sylpheed-claws change is SRU worthy.  I'd just document the process to fix it in the bug and move on.
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  bittorrent-like swarming may be non-useful.  If they're on the local net there's no bandwidth advantage, unless they have slower-than-network disks
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  well, no, wait, I'm wrong.
<norsetto> scottK: well, the fix is very simple, you just install claws-mail and thats it
<bluefoxicy> If they all update at once, due to using a switch, multiple nodes can access other nodes with isolated circuits, which may isolate bandwidth use and overall increase effective bandwidth.
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  thanks!  :D
<norsetto> scottK: its for people that are clueless if they 1) don know sylpheed has been deprecated 2) don't know how to solve the conflict
<norsetto> scottK: what really bugs me, is that the bug seems to be on the apt side of things
<norsetto> scottK: btw, this may lead to dist-upgrade failing too
<bluefoxicy> sladen: http://rafb.net/p/BiAJSc67.html just happened to have this on hand in tomboy somewhere
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  THAT particular set of notes was for a separate "package distribution" type concept based on the same idea, except it tracked installed files from packages and allowed a (much smaller) piece of extra data to be kept around to re-create the package.  Something I was going to try for the XO laptop
<bluefoxicy> Won't work for debs though.  Not without modifying dpkg to change how digital signature verification works.  But scouring the local network for debs will work.  :)
<blueyed> Can I influence the order in which apt/dpkg install and configure packages? (bug 153819)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153819 in virtualbox-ose-modules "Cannot change owner vboxusers for device /dev/vboxdrv" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153819
<blueyed> I've tried Depends and even Pre-Depends, but it did not work out.
<geser> blueyed: it you usually work. What exactly did you tried out?
<geser> s/you/should/
<blueyed> geser: I've made the -modules package Depend (and later also Pre-Depend) on the virtualbox-ose package
<blueyed> I guess the problem is that virtualbox-ose already Depends on the -modules package.
<geser> Pre-Depends should do it, if I'm not mistaken
<ScottK> norsetto: Please look at the SRU criteria and tell me which one you think this meets
<blueyed> geser: with or without an a Depends (in -modules)?
<imbrandon> ScottK: breaking dist-upgrades seems like a "major regression/bug"
<blueyed> geser: sorry, the right version does not appear to be in my PPA, so I've not really tested it yet..
<norsetto> scottK: I would say "Bugs which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu"
<ScottK> imbrandon: I don't think that can happen.  This is only if you install the transitional package after you upgrade.
<norsetto> scottK: unable to use claws-mail, unable to upgrade, isn't that enough?
<ScottK> norsetto: Except I don't see that it's that
<ScottK> norsetto: That didn't seem to be the what was going on.
<norsetto> scottK: as I said, if its not failing dist-upgrade, than its not worth an sru
<ScottK> OK.  I misread what you said.
<norsetto> scottK: thats what I wrote in the bug report btw
<ScottK> I don't think it will based on what's in the bug.
<ScottK> OK.
<geser> sylpheed-claws-gtk2 is a transitional package, so it will affect people who used sylpheed-claws-gtk2 to claws-mail
<norsetto> scottK if I have sulpheed-claws-gtk2 in feisty, and I dist-update, will this not fail (since it will  try to install the transitional package)?
<ScottK> norsetto: That's right.  The only time it's a problem is if you try to install the transitional package new on Gutsy.
<ScottK> geser: The transition bits work.  It's only if you install the transitional package fresh.
<ScottK> norsetto: I'd say if you can figure a way to fix it so you can install the transitional package fresh and not leave it behind, then it's a good fix for Hardy (we need the transitional package for Hardy for Dapper --> Hardy).
<hellboy195> ScottK: I have gutsy and pbuilder is set up with gutsy. would something happen if I "upgrade" to hardy now?
<geser> ScottK: interesting, I didn't expect it to work if you have the package already installed and do an upgrade
<imbrandon> a new toolchain
<ScottK> hellboy195: I'd say yes, but nothing good.
<ScottK> Wait until the toolchain is built and stable at least.
<hellboy195> ScottK: stable means in 6 months?
<geser> you can already upgrade a pbuilder to hardy?
<hellboy195> geser: dunno
<imbrandon> hellboy195: no , generaly when the archive for it "opens"
<imbrandon> geser: yes, but not really a point
<hellboy195> imbrandon: hardy is open!?
<imbrandon> hellboy195: not for uploads
<ScottK> hellboy195: No.  A week or two.
<hellboy195> imbrandon: ah ok. hmm but I don't want to upload something. just to upgrade "ubuntu" and package with pbuilder still gutsy packages
<hellboy195> ScottK: k
<bluefoxicy> is there any gpg signature verification for Packages (the package list)?
<bluefoxicy> Ah, nvm, I see.
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-avahi
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  if you have a spec for delta debs... based on my understanding (custom version, between any version, etc) of what you're trying to do, it should be possible to copy individual files from a package back and forth and then use delta deb stuff to retrieve whatever's left?
<bluefoxicy> (this could become a future component)
<hellboy195> hey guys. are there any plans for gutsy-commercial ??
<sladen> bluefoxicy: yes, in theory;  except that if you're having to reconstruct the gzip compression, it has to be done in one go
<sladen> bluefoxicy: but those chunks/files could come from anywhere
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  nods.  Well you have my thoughts in the matter.  Good luck with the delta debs, I'm looking forward to that at least.
<bluefoxicy> I of course am about to move to 64-bit ubuntu, because gnash works and I'm going to put it to the test.  :)
<ScottK> hellboy195: It's called 'partners' now.
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  also:  If you have a different version of gzip (say it gets a little bit better compression due to improvements in the lz search algorithm that spit out the same data format), that whole idea is gonna break ;)
<sladen> bluefoxicy: re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptAvahi  I don't think hobbsee is going to be having any kids at the moment ... let alone seven.
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  they're completely ficticious scenarios!  O:)
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  edit as needed?  :>
<hellboy195> ScottK: great. thx :)
<bluefoxicy> (no, really, I just thought it'd be funny, especially if Hobbsee read it)
<jdong> bluekuja: I've been thinking about Azureus..... what if we just freaking demote the stupid thing to multiverse and compile it with the Sun JDK stack?
<jdong> bluekuja: I don't think this whole FOSS Java stack for Azureus thing is working out all that well...
<hellboy195> ScottK: a friend from me must use Xp now. how can he download the vmware-server debs from this repo? any ideas?
<geser> bluefoxicy: LongPointyStick is here, so I guess she will read it when she wakes up
<ScottK> I think they are in the partners repo, but don't know for sure.
<bluefoxicy> geser:  hah
<jdong> ScottK: not in Gutsy
<jdong> ScottK: Feisty had it in partners...
<jdong> -commercial rather
<geser> jdong: afaik you can't use the sun java jdks on buildds as there is no way to skip the license question
<jdong> hellboy195: in my experience the vmware .tar.gz installers are well behaved and "clean"
<jdong> geser: goodie :-/
<jdong> hellboy195: I usually install it from the .tar.gz
<hellboy195> jdong: ok
<bluekuja> jdong, yeah, I agree with you on this
<jdong> bluekuja: I really want to see Azureus to work.... my last idea with the current stack is to toss all of our packaging and rebase from Fedora 8... if that fails I simply don't see any alternative...
<ScottK> norsetto: Do you have anyone on the hopefules/mentees list who could use a relatively easy merge?
<bluekuja> jdong, same here, azureus is having great problems atm, and I cant have it working herer
<bluekuja> *here
<jdong> bluekuja: we know that Sun Java compiled and sun JVM run = good, Sun Java compiled + GCJ run = good, GCJ compiled + * = bad, except under Fedora 8 and Dapper when GCJ + GCJ = good but GCJ + Sun = bad.
<hellboy195> bluekuja: azureus afaik had always problems on ubuntu ^^
<jdong> hellboy195: not always
<jdong> hellboy195: in Dapper packaging it worked fine if you run it with GCJ
<jdong> but if you try to run Ubuntu package with Sun JVM, it crashes Hotspot
<hellboy195> jdong: yes but i mean with sun
<geser> jdong: have you tried the icedtea java packages with azureus?
<jdong> geser: I have not...
<jdong> geser: I wonder if that's what Fedora 8 uses?
<geser> icedtea is java7
<hellboy195> when will sun java will be open enough to put it into main?
<geser> icedtea is already in universe
<bluekuja> jdong, geser: we should try to run it with azurues then
<norsetto> scottK: the best would be to tag the bug packaging/bitesize and assign it to you as a mentor
<jdong> indeed
<ScottK> norsetto: It's a merge, so there's no bug.
<norsetto> scottK: make it then
<norsetto> scottK: if its too much work tell me the package and I'll do it myself
<bluekuja> jdong, if it doesnt work, we have a problem :)
<bluekuja> I would say a big problem
<jdong> bluekuja: I can give a quick try to run az with icedtea.. i don't have the time right now to build it from ground up with it
<ScottK> norsetto: Gramps.  Sorry.  I got about a million things going on today.  Thanks.
<norsetto> ScottK: np
<bluekuja> jdong, that's ok. At least we can have a first try about having jave7 plus azureus
<bluekuja> *java
<bluekuja> jdong, and if everything seems to run we can move to start up packaging it
<jdong> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display
<jdong> blargh
<bluekuja> crashed?
<jdong> yeah :(
<bluekuja> darn :/
<jdong> Hmm I wonder if I can quickly hack the packaging
<jdong> what I'm afraid is that it'll require that we compile all the b-d's with GCJ too
<jdong> err icedtea*
<jdong> which is not an option
<norsetto> scottk: bug 155487. You have to offer mentorship yourself, I can't do it for you
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155487
<ScottK> norsetto: Sure.
<imbrandon> jdong: does debian use gcj for it ?
<jdong> imbrandon: quite sure the new-style non-contrib packaging does
<imbrandon> huh ?
<imbrandon> 2.5.0.4-1 in unstable
<jdong> yeah, those ones
<ScottK> norsetto: Done.  Thanks.
<jdong> the stable release version was the "old style": where they just uploaded a binary package
<norsetto> scottK: I'll publicise it in motu-mentors
<ScottK> OK.
 * jdong builds the debian one for kicks
<bluekuja> jdong, results?
<jdong> bluekuja: one sec, wrestling with deps, silly differently named swt junk :)
<bluekuja> hehe, ok :)
<jdong> bluekuja: while I have this set up anyway, I'll humor myself and see if I can force icedtea to bve the compiler :D
<hellboy195> so. off. cya
<bluekuja> cya hellboy195
<bluekuja> jdong, I just hope we can get a working azureus package
<jdong> bluekuja: likewise, I really want it
<bluekuja> jdong, a lot of ppl use it, so it's a priority atm
<jdong> bluekuja: hmm got a FTBFS that eclipse swt cannot be resolved... which almost IDENTICALLY matches up with one of the tracebacks in the bug report....
<jdong> bluekuja: I'm beginning to wonder whether or not our own package build successfully in gutsy final.
<bluekuja> damn
<jdong> lol
<lamego> anyone with an nvidia card that could do a test ?
<bluekuja> jdong, lol
 * bluekuja checks build logs on lp
<bluekuja> :P
<jdong> bluekuja: same version since feisty, IIRC
<jdong> bluekuja: which could explain... a lot.
<bluekuja> jdong, what's new in the latest debian package?
<jdong>   * New upstream release. Closes: #406914.
<jdong>   * Disable auto-update. Closes: #405997.
<jdong> nothing.
<jdong> bluekuja: we really diverged though
<jdong> bluekuja: their packaging even uses a different build stack than us...
<bluekuja> jdong, that's pretty bad, would be nice to have a package close to debian one
<jdong> bluekuja: ours seems to build correctly
<jdong> bluekuja: I'm gonna whip the debian pkg to compile, hopefully
<bluekuja> jdong, debian one failed to build?
<ScottK> jdong: To quote (IIRC it was StevenK) Azureus is evil.  I think everyone has been afraid to touch it.
<bluekuja> jdong, unstable one?
<jdong> bluekuja: right, it couldn't located swt libs, despite the build-dep being installed
<jdong> bluekuja: I'll investigate that one a bit more
<bluekuja> ScottK, that's true
<jdong> ScottK: I have a reputation for stupidly trying to fix what everyone else avoids
<bluekuja> the only good soul is the proud jdong
<bluekuja> atm^^
<jdong> OH DEAR LORD this build is RAM heavy!
<bluekuja> lol
<ScottK> jdong: Go build eclipse.  It took RAOF 18 hours to build it on a 1 gb box due to thrashing.
<bluekuja> jdong, I tried azureus one week ago. I took a torrent, pushed it on the queue and everything crashed
<jdong> 21545 root      18   0  923m 651m 4016 D    2 64.5   0:51.92 jc1
<jdong> shesh!
<bluekuja> and now it's unusable
<bluekuja> that's why my bugmail is full of those crashes
<tiagoboldt> Hi there, I would like to solve this bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/155487
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ScottK> Have you done merges before?
<jdong> bluekuja: lol shall we just give up on GCJ altogether and see if we can go the icedtea route?
<bluekuja> tiagoboldt, you should wait hardy first, then you can start merging
<bluekuja> (if you know how)
<ScottK> The first thing to do is assign the bug to yourself so others know not to work on it.
<tiagoboldt> I have no experience, but I'm a fast leaner :D
<bluekuja> jdong, lol
<tiagoboldt> I've already assigned the bug to me
<bluekuja> jdong, seems the only working way to have damn working package
<ScottK> OK.  Do you understand what a merge is?
<jdong> bluekuja: no kidding... *aborts build*
<bluekuja> :D
<tiagoboldt> I guess so, I have to get it from debian and build it for ubuntu, wrong?
<ScottK> Close.
<ScottK> The current Ubuntu package is different that Debian's.
<ScottK> Debian has a new package.
<bluekuja> jdong, debian package builds in gutsy?
<superm1> tiagoboldt, you may want to read a little on this wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<ScottK> In a merge, you look at Debian's new package and incorporate the Ubuntu unque stuff that is still required.
<jdong> bluekuja: not yet.... I'm gonna now see which is easier to adapt to icedtea, gutsy or debian packaging...
<ScottK> Also, please - anyone else feel free to jump in and help tiagoboldt.  I offered to mentor this, but I'm also doing 3 other things right now too.
<bluekuja> tiagoboldt, if you need an hand, just let me know
<tiagoboldt> yes, since it's my first time, every help is welcome :D
<bluekuja> jdong, ok. That's the first step to try out
<bluekuja> jdong, if you have the chance to have debian package built in gutsy
<bluekuja> jdong, would be nice to try it out
<bluekuja> jdong, and see if it works/not works and so on
<jdong> bluekuja: ok, I'll  try to hack the debian pkg to build
<bluekuja> jdong, sounds great. When done, ping me, so we can test it out a bit
<bluekuja> and take a decision
<tiagoboldt> bluekuja, I'm reading about merging, in this case, I should get the package from debian? or merges.ubuntu.com?
<bluekuja> tiagoboldt, it depends...do you want to merge it manually or using a small tool?
<bluekuja> tiagoboldt, mom uses a nice tool
<bluekuja> for merging stuff from debian
<bluekuja> tool name is grab-merge.sh
<bluekuja> you can play with it a bit
<tiagoboldt> I'm want to do it in the best way possible :D
<bluekuja> :D
<tiagoboldt> I'll go take a look at it :)
<bluekuja> tiagoboldt, great. wget it and grab the package you need
<tiagoboldt> it's downloading using the script:)
<bluekuja> great
<tiagoboldt> it's downloading two versions
<jdong> bluekuja: I see half the problem
<pochu> Can we already go merging?
<ScottK> That's normal tiagoboldt
<tiagoboldt> by merging, what will I do exactly? upgrade the package version in ubuntu?
<jdong> bluekuja: our JAVADIR is fractured half into /usr/lib/java and half into /usr/share/java
<ScottK> pochu: Sure.  We just can't upload them yet.
<jdong> bluekuja: and our azureus package has sinful hackjobs to work around that
<pochu> ScottK: ty
<tiagoboldt> I've got all the files of the two versions and two scripts :D done :D
<bluekuja> jdong, understood. Is there a way to have it working on debian?
<jdong> bluekuja: yes, some makefile mods
<pochu> Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Gutsy Gibbon released - start working on Gutsy SRUs (gutsy-proposed is open for motu-uvf approved uploads). | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<pochu> woops
* pochu changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Gutsy Gibbon released - start working on Gutsy SRUs (gutsy-proposed is open for motu-uvf approved uploads). | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<tiagoboldt> is there any tutorial I can follow? I could do it more on my own that way..
<bluekuja> tiagoboldt, I guess superm1 linked you it
<bluekuja> jdong, true. We need to hack makefiles a bit
<bluekuja> jdong, and we get it done
<joejaxx> hmm
<jdong> bluekuja: well it's building pretty well so far with a 1-liner :D
<joejaxx> time to change the stats to hardy
<bluekuja> tiagoboldt, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<jdong> bluekuja: watch me curse it with that optimistic statement
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> jdong, going for a bath, need to relax a bit
<jdong> bluekuja: what I like about the Debian package is that it's java implementation agnostic.... switching to sun or icedtea should be a simple build-dep reordering
<tiagoboldt> I'm reading it, thanks :D brb with success our doubts :D
<jdong> bluekuja: enjoy, I'll test this package, if ti deosn't work I'll switch it over to icedtea pronto
<bluekuja> jdong, great, gonna ping you later for results
<jdong> ok
<bluekuja> have fun in the meantime
<bluekuja> :P
<bluekuja> off
<norsetto_> tiagoboldt: pls. mark bug 155487 as "In Progress" if you are working on it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155487
<tiagoboldt> ok
<jdong> bluekuja: ok, Debian Azuureus compiled in Ubuntu does NOT run in sun Java with identical error messages, seems run in GCJ but at snail-slow paces (on the factor of 60-100x slower than Sun) -- I have waited 30 minutes for a logo screen and it's still using 100% CPU
<jdong> bluekuja: at this point I'm going to investigate building with icedtea
<bluekuja> jdong, no logo screen for more than 30 mins with 100% CPU, crazy...
<bluekuja> jdong, ok fine
<jdong> bluekuja: well Debian GCJ build does not activate the native compiling thing, so it's interpreted bytecode, not JIT
<jdong> bluekuja: it's entirely plausible to be on the order of 500x slower than regular Java or precompiled Java
<jdong> bluekuja: icedtea compile is currently going.... Sun's compiler is at least triple the speed of GCJ so far....
 * jdong keeps azureus GCJ loading on the second core just to humor himself
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> jdong, if we cant make it working using icedtea, what should we do?
<jdong> bluekuja: I don't see how that could happen, unless Java7 is not compatible with Java6 enough to run azureus (which I guess, fine, is possible...)
<jdong> bluekuja: then our solutions are (1) rebase from Fedora 7, (2) find some way of building with sun-java5/java6 and demote to multiverse
<bluekuja> jdong, which solution would you take?
<jdong> bluekuja: the latter
<bluekuja> jdong, that's whay I thought
<bluekuja> *what
<bluekuja> jdong, it will be the cleanest way to have a working package
<jdong> bluekuja: grr even pure icedtea one is dying across the board... I suspect something wrong with our SWT....
<bluekuja> jdong, failed to build? or unusable?
<jdong> bluekuja: builds but fails to run
<bluekuja> darn, same as before then
<jdong> bluekuja: oh wait I see a problem
<bluekuja> jdong, where?
<jdong> bluekuja: the launcher script doesn't seem to be executing the same java commandline, investigating...
<norsetto> geser: I have a contributor which is looking for a mentor to help him with bug 150876. Could you possibly help him?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150876 in xen-meta "English error in description" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150876
<tiagoboldt> so, I've started working on a merge, I've downloaded the sources and diffs with the script available at mom and built the package with pbuilder, is that it? what else?
<Kmos> tiagoboldt: a merge must include ubuntu changes, not only debian ones
<bluekuja> norsetto, is an upload worth for just a small fix?
<Kmos> and that means all changelog from both
<ScottK> Kmos: Not necessarily and as he said already, he used the mom script to get the package.  It does that for you.
<norsetto> bluekuja: from an educational pov, yes.
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: My advice is to avoid advice from Kmos.  In my experience it's rarely correct.
<bluekuja> norsetto, fine then
<tiagoboldt> I'm new, please keep my out of the hostilities :P
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: What you need to do now is look at the Ubuntu changes (looking in debian/changelog for the entries previous to the Debian update will tell you what they are)
<ScottK> Sure
<bluekuja> norsetto, maybe he should find out something to fix along with that bug
<tiagoboldt> anyway, after that, I've got the files in pbuilder cache directory, what now?
<bluekuja> norsetto, so we have a full upload
<ScottK> So once you see the changelog entries for Ubuntu changes, you need to see if they are still needed (hint: at least one of the gramps ones is not).
<norsetto> bluekuja: I leave it to the guy that mentors him on that bug, which could possibly be you if you agree
<bluekuja> norsetto, yeah, fine
<ScottK> You should also look in the REPORT file the script downloaded and see if it reports any conflicts.  If it does, you'll need to sort those too.
<bluekuja> norsetto, gonna help him to provide a debdiff
<norsetto> bluekuja: cool, just assign yourself as the mentor then
<tiagoboldt> ohh, so I should have done that before building it, right ScottK ?
<jdong> bluekuja: found the culprit,it's our swt.jar
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: Yes, but no matter.  You'll just build it again after.
<jdong> bluekuja: replacing ours with Azureus's somehow causes it to load
<tiagoboldt> sure:)
<jdong> bluekuja: now to see why
<jdong> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 708K 2007-09-14 04:30 /usr/lib/eclipse/plugins/org.eclipse.swt.gtk.linux.x86_3.2.2.v3236.jar
<jdong> -rw-r--r-- 1 jdong jdong 1.7M 2007-10-18 08:39 swt.jar
<jdong> bluekuja: our SWT is 1/3 the size of theirs!
<norsetto> jdong: mine is 5 times their, so there
<geser> norsetto: sure (that xen-meta bug)
<jdong> lol
<norsetto> geser: ah, ok, apparently bluekuja volunteered in the meantime
<bluekuja> jdong, 0_0
<bluekuja> geser, if you want to take it, no problem
<jdong> bluekuja: ok, I am reasonably certain I understand the surface of the problem now
<geser> bluekuja: you can have it
<jdong> bluekuja: we use SWT built through Eclipse; Debian/Azureus use SWT built from http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/swt-gtk source package similar to that
<bluekuja> jdong, having it fixed, can avoid the latter option?
<jdong> bluekuja: they must not be compatible
<bluekuja> jdong, we decided before?
<norsetto> bluekuja, geser: as long as one of you two take it, because it is still free ......
<jdong> bluekuja: I don't know enough about eclipse to know why we went for one over the other...
<jdong> bluekuja: the obvious dirty workaround is to make a separate swt package for azureus, but if we can avoid that it's for the best :)
<jdong> is there some way to explore the API provided by a JAR?
<Treenaks> jdong: A jar is just a zip with a bunch of .class files in it (basically)
<jdong> Treenaks: ok, recursively, I mean any way of exposing the API of a .class?
<Treenaks> jdong: libbcel-java - Analyze, create, and manipulate (binary) Java class files
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, is there anyway were I can read about the changes needed to be done to those files? The documentation is a bit messy everywhere :\\
<ScottK> Understand.
<Treenaks> jdong: "yes, but it's not trivial@
<ScottK> Did you see the previous Ubuntu changes in debian/changelog?
<tiagoboldt> yes
<tiagoboldt> and there is one that has been done in the upstream
<bluekuja> norsetto, done, was finishing something so sorry for the delay
<tiagoboldt> (I guess I've used the correct terms :D)
<ScottK> I think so.
<jdong> bluekuja: ok, more specifically, our SWT is missing the org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display class
<jdong> bluekuja: in fact, the entire .widgets namespace
 * jdong adds this to the bug report
<bluekuja> jdong, which is there on debian?
<jdong> bluekuja: right because their SWT sources come from a different origin
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: So the ubuntu-2 change from the current debian package has been incorporated already and is no longer needed, but the ubuntu1 changes have not, correct?
<jdong> bluekuja: I bet that eclipse demands its own SWT to be the one that's in /usr/lib/java
<bluekuja> jdong, true, it's something impossible to use the same SWT sources as debian?
<jdong> bluekuja: so I think instead we should slot-install SWT from Debian?
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, true, that's it!
<jdong> bluekuja: well if we just directly replace them, I'm sure Eclipse itself will blow up
<bluekuja> jdong, slot-install as you said then
<bluekuja> (from debian)
<ScottK> So the ubuntu1 changelog entry you are doing should look the same as the last ubuntu1 changelog entry.  Let's get that right and then we'll check and make sure it's true after.
<jdong> bluekuja: actually, an interesting side effect, ours is "libswt3.2-gtk-java" while Debian's is "libswt-gtk-3.2-java"
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: Why don't you take a stab and that and pastebin the result.
<jdong> bluekuja: so aside from utter confusion, we could just directly pull that package over!
<tiagoboldt> ok :D
<bluekuja> jdong, why the name got diverged that way?
<jdong> bluekuja: I don't know
<bluekuja> jdong, would be possible to have the name synced with debian again?
<jdong> bluekuja: it would break all the reverse deps....
<bluekuja> jdong, to prevent any dep mess up
<bluekuja> yea
<bluekuja> jdong, but if a package comes from debian with that dep name
<bluekuja> should be merged everytime
<bluekuja> to prevent every ftbfs
<jdong> bluekuja: if a package comes from debian with that dep name it probalby wouldn't run under ours anyway
<jdong> bluekuja: our SWT seems VERY eclipse specific
<bluekuja> oh ok, that explains it
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, I've did it, and I've also added some changes that I'm not sure that should be included, http://pastebin.ca/744844
<bluekuja> norsetto, why the bug is already assigned?
<bluekuja> norsetto, you said the contributor (I guess era on LP) decided to do it
<jdong> eclipse-rcp: usr/lib/eclipse/plugins/org.eclipse.swt_3.2.2.v3236b.jar
<norsetto> bluekuja: because he wants to work on it?
<jdong> jesus how many SWT's do we have???
 * ScottK looks
<bluekuja> norsetto, yeah, I thought the contributor name was "era"
<norsetto> bluekuja: no, the contributor who asked for help is miguel ruiz
<bluekuja> kk, fine then
<bluekuja> norsetto, sorry for bothering, was unclear
<norsetto> bluekuja: hey, np
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: Close.  I'll edit for you.
<tiagoboldt> k
<jdong> bluekuja: oh god, I feel like a total moron now
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: One quick point: Always spaces, never tabs in debian/changelog
<bluekuja> jdong, y?
<jdong> bluekuja: I somehow had a corrupt swt.jar.
<jdong> bluekuja: *former XFS user*
<tiagoboldt> how many for a tab? 4?
<jdong> bluekuja: shoot me :)
<bluekuja> jdong, :/
<bluekuja> jdong, :D
<jdong> bluekuja: now, to retry IcedTea build
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: 4 in this case.
<bluekuja> jdong, I feel better now
<bluekuja> ^^
<bluefoxicy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnash/+bug/155412  is this improper?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155412 in gnash "gnash plays SML 3 video poorly" [Undecided,New]
<bluefoxicy> I noticed there's a lot of gnash bug reports on launchpad, I didn't know if I should dump all the "video X plays like shit" "Web site feature Y does not work properly" bugs into the same bug or not
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: http://pastebin.ca/744854 - Also you need to put your information in line 11 and update the date/time.
<jdong> bluekuja: ok,
<jdong> bluekuja: debian packaging still hates Ubuntu
<bluekuja> jdong, what happened?
<tiagoboldt> did it ScottK, Now I should do each of that changes to the code, right?
<jdong> bluekuja: it can't find the org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display class
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: You should find that the merge script did it for you.  What you need to do is verify that.
<bluekuja> jdong, during build?
<tiagoboldt> ok : )
<jdong> bluekuja: during execution
<jdong> bluekuja: I'm investigating how it finds it during build
<bluekuja> jdong, using icedtea?
<jdong> bluekuja: using any java runtime
<bluekuja> jdong, yeah, we should see how does it detect it during build
<bluekuja> jdong, and hack the package a bit, to have it working
<bluekuja> jdong, I'm going to sleep, need to wake up early tomorrow
<bluekuja> jdong, please let me know everything about this
<bluekuja> jdong, tomorrow if you have a chance to be around
<jdong> bluekuja: ok; well I think the core of the problem is debian has az 2.5.0.4 while w're still working on 2.5.0.0
<jdong> bluekuja: could be a new dependency introduced in the later Azureus
<bluekuja> jdong, ping me tomorrow when you get online
<jdong> bluekuja: oh oh you might wanna stay up for 3 more minutes.....
<bluekuja> jdong, so we can continue discussing this out
<bluekuja> jdong, lol
<bluekuja> jdong, if you have good news, why not
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, the control file has a first part with ubuntu related info, and a second one, inconsistent with the first, with the debian infos, should it be kept?
<jdong> CAN I GET A HELL YEAH?????
<bluekuja> xD
<jdong> bluekuja: Debian Azureus + icedtea-jdk + icedtea+jre + Ubuntu /usr/bin/azureus launcher = SUCCESS
<bluekuja> woooooooohoooooooo
<bluekuja> :D
<jdong> bluekuja: now to figure out why the heck that combination is magical
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: pastebin me the part of the control file you are wanting to know about.
 * bluekuja starts dancing
<bluekuja> jdong, did you change every B-D from debian?
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, http://pastebin.ca/744866
 * ScottK looks
<bluekuja> jdong, and added icedtea stuff?
<jdong> bluekuja: yeah, just added icedtea-java7-jdk as the first javac dep, and voila
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: What of those difference relate to what you have already said you would be different from Debian on in debian/changelog
<bluekuja> jdong, maybe you did something magic while building :P
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, that's not very clear, sorry
<jdong> bluekuja: lol let me clean all this junk up and reproduce build success :)
<bluekuja> jdong, perfect. If everything goes fine, I go to sleep happy
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: Look at your debian/changelog entry we already made.  Some of the differences in the part of debian/control are listed there.  If we've said we want Ubuntu to be different from Debian, then we keep the Ubuntu version.  If not, we keep the Debian version.
<tiagoboldt> my only doubt in there is, should the debian part be kept? where there's the info about the debian mantainer and all, bellow the =========
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: Change it the way you think it should be and pastebin it.  I need to get in ~15 minutes.
<superm1> jdong, did you really just fix azureus?
<superm1> you're crazy.
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, i think that it should stay like this http://pastebin.ca/744875
<jdong> superm1: sure looks that way :)
<bluekuja> superm1, jdong is a magic guy
 * ScottK looks
<superm1> jdong, sounds like it's in need for an SRU to me then :)
<bluekuja> jdong, leaving. Ping me when online tomorrow
<jdong> superm1: unfortunately the fix is in no SRU-able state
<bluekuja> jdong, I hope with good news
<superm1> jdong, mind you its fairly broken in gutsy/universe right now.
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: Remove the blank line 4.  Why did you remove the Homepage field?
<bluekuja> good night everyone
<tiagoboldt> my bad
<jdong> bluekuja: ok, I'll clean up packaging :)
<ScottK> jdong: Why not SRUable?
<norsetto> bluekuja: nighty nighty
<jdong> ScottK: the "fix" is the build with icedtea
<jdong> ScottK: and in order to build with icedtea we have to strip out all GCJ-specific packaging elements in the package
<superm1> jdong, icedtea made it to universe for gutsy though didn't it?
<ScottK> OK.  Does the package work at all now?
<jdong> superm1: yes but the fix is too invasive IMO
<jdong> ScottK: nope
<jdong> ScottK: zero, zilch, nada
<jdong> ScottK: GCJ hangs running it, all Sun-based VM's segfault
<ScottK> So what's the downside risk of doing this as an SRU?
<norsetto> jdong: per niente
<jdong> ScottK: I don't know, do you think SRU team will buy it?
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, done, final one: http://pastebin.ca/744879
<jdong> ScottK: actually the simplest fix is to sync Debian's 2.5.0.4 packaging  with like a 5-line debdiff I am preparing
<ScottK> jdong: It's universe, right?
<jdong> ScottK: it is universe indeed
<ScottK> jdong my son, you have my motu-uvf blessing (we don't have an SRU team anymore).  Make a debdiff and if you can talk a MOTU into uploading it to gutsy-proposed.  Go for it (document I said it was OK in the bug)
<ScottK> tiagoboldt: Looks good to me.
<tiagoboldt> nice, than that's all
<tiagoboldt> now rebuild it, right?
<jdong> ScottK: ok, here's the deal though.... We have an oddly repacket 2.5.0.0 package using debhelper GCJ specific stuff everywhere, along with a BUNCH of patches from Fedora 6 ish for making Azureus build under GCJ
<ScottK> norsetto: I have to leave in a minute.  Could you pick up with helping tiagoboldt?  I think he needs to build his package, test it, make a debdiff, and attach it to the bug.
<jdong> ScottK: IMO this is a huge fscking mess and totally unnecessary; Debian's 2.5.0.4 package uses a simple 10-line Makefile, identical to upstream source tarball, and zero patches
<norsetto> ScottK: I'm going to bed soon, but I'll do my best
<ScottK> jdong: It's sufficiently ancient and broken that I don't think we need to care.
<ScottK> norsetto: Thanks.
<jdong> ScottK: it's less "invasive" to just import Debian's 2.5.0.4 in my opinion
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, tks than, norsetto I think that this is almost done :)
<ScottK> jdong: Great for Hardy, but I doubt for Gutsy.
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, I've downloaded the files using the script from mom's, I've already got a control and changeog file updated
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: let me catch up with it
<jdong> ScottK: ok, so I need to massively strip out the build system in Gutsy azureus then? :(
<jdong> ScottK: you think it's strictly impossible to import a new-upstream-version into gutsy-updates? :(
<ScottK> jdong: It's not strictly impossible.  I'd say lets wait until Hardy opens and then raise it with the archive admins then.
<jdong> ScottK: ok, sounds good, I will prepare the necessary debdiff to get it to compile and run under Hardy with icedtea
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> I've got to run so have a good $TIMEOFDAY all of you.
<tiagoboldt> ScottK, ty ;)
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, can I give you any info, I think I should generate the diff file ou dsc file now, right?
<jdong> WHOO
<jdong> bluekuja: package even runs with GCJ java!
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: so, what was the delta between the old ubuntu and the new debian?
<tiagoboldt> delta as in 'the changes'?
<tiagoboldt> most of it was made by mom, I've only had to upgrade de debian control and changelog files
<tiagoboldt> I've then entered the src folder and debbuild -S in there
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: you should always check anyhow, don't take for granted that mom did a perfect job
<tiagoboldt> and I'm now building the package with pbuilder to see if everything goes alright
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, and I've did checked everything altered in the changelog that should have be done automatically, everything looked ok
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: I'm quite sure you did, thats why I would like to know too
<tiagoboldt> then I should install the package and test it, right? if everything looks ok, I should add the generated .dsc to the bug, right?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: can we go back a bit?
<tiagoboldt> sure, where?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: to tell me what is the delta
<tiagoboldt> delta==changes?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: yes
<tiagoboldt> ok, well, there are some bugs and features added, one bug that was corrected in an ubuntu correction was done
<tiagoboldt> still, some changes from the previous versions still had to be done(mainly in the debian directory)
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: can you paste in a pastebin these changes?
<tiagoboldt> sure, w8
<tiagoboldt> changelog: http://pastebin.ca/744900
<nxvl> ScottK: ping
<tiagoboldt> control file: http://pastebin.ca/744901
<tiagoboldt> anything else norsetto ?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: did you check rules too?
<tiagoboldt> yes, there were some changes there mentioned in the changelog, they were all ok
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: ok, so you build your source package already?
<tiagoboldt> yup
<tiagoboldt> debuild -S in the source folder and pbuilder --build xxx-new-dsc
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: ok, in the mom REPORT, it is mentioned a conflict in src/Spell.py what was it?
<tiagoboldt> ohh &%$#
<tiagoboldt> forgot that :X
<tiagoboldt> big ups
<tiagoboldt> so, correct that, debuild -S and pbuilder again
<tiagoboldt> ok
<tiagoboldt> doing it
<tiagoboldt> hum, is it only the comment?
<tiagoboldt> only 5 lines, I'll past it here
<nxvl> tiagoboldt: are you working on 155487?
<tiagoboldt> nxvl, yes
<tiagoboldt> trying to:P
<nxvl> :(
<nxvl> tell me if i can helo
<nxvl> help*
<tiagoboldt> nxvl, sure, it's my first time
<nxvl> mine too
<tiagoboldt> I'll be glad to work with you
<nxvl> what has been made so far?
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, here's the problem in spell.py:
<tiagoboldt>     else:
<tiagoboldt> <<<<<<< gramps-2.2.8-1ubuntu2 (ubuntu)
<tiagoboldt>         tv = gtk.TextView()
<tiagoboldt>         gtkspell.Spell(tv).set_language(lang)
<tiagoboldt> =======
<tiagoboldt>         #work around gtkspell bug with tv
<tiagoboldt>         tv = gtk.TextView()
<tiagoboldt>         gtkspell.Spell(tv).set_language(lang)
<tiagoboldt> >>>>>>> gramps-2.2.9-1 (debian)
<tiagoboldt>         success = True
<tiagoboldt> how should I keep it? it's the same but with the comment, right?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: you know what that is?
<tiagoboldt> guess so, in 2.2.8 it was the part before =====
<tiagoboldt> after ==== is the part in 2.2.9
<tiagoboldt> is that it?
<nxvl> tiagoboldt: have you succesfully download the motu-tools?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: I mean, why there is this "conflict"
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, guess not :\
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: well, you should understand this before uploading, shouldn't you?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: its not difficult, just look at the changelog(s)
<tiagoboldt> sorry, not getting it :\\
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: what is in the last ubuntu version and this version that can cause a conflict? It must be a specific ubuntu change, right?
<nxvl> tiagoboldt: what is the problem
<tiagoboldt> ohh
<tiagoboldt> right:)
<jdong> bluekuja: bug 57875 updated with debdiff wrt debian, status update, AND testing gutsy .deb. cheers!
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
<nxvl> in these days there is a lot of this bugs since the first days of hardy, didn't it?
<tiagoboldt> one problem was corrected both in the upstream and the ubuntu release
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: :-)
<tiagoboldt> so the code is duplicated
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: could this be it? whats in the changelog?
<tiagoboldt> I just have do delete one of the entries, the on from ubuntu to keep it as it is from the upstream code :D
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: yes, you have to delete the ubuntu one
<tiagoboldt> :D
<tiagoboldt> and then do the debuild -S and pbuilder again, right?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: one small point first
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: can you type this comman in a terminal "man dh_iconcache" ?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: s/comman/command
<tiagoboldt> done
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: and?
<tiagoboldt> since it is called, there will be an icon added
<tiagoboldt> right?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: are you on feisty still?
<tiagoboldt> nop
<tiagoboldt> gutsy for the last 2 months
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: ok, so read it carefully
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: remark this "This script is going to go away."
<tiagoboldt> it calls dhicons
<tiagoboldt> yes, so I should switch it with dh_icons?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: yes, you could have seen it if we had run lintian
<tiagoboldt> so I should change the changelog and switch that for dh_icons, doing it
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: remember that you need to update the changelog
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: yes
<tiagoboldt> DONE
<tiagoboldt> done*
<tiagoboldt> debuild -S?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: please prefix it with norsetto: otherwise I may miss it
<tiagoboldt> prefix what?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: ok, now build the source and the binaryes, and check that they install and run
<tiagoboldt> E: gramps_2.2.9-1ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file hardy
<tiagoboldt> W: gramps source: debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error line 23
<tiagoboldt> W: gramps source: diff-contains-substvars debian/substvars
<tiagoboldt> lintian returns that..
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: prefix when you want to talk with me
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: yes, we should pass these to debian for them to correct
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: not the hardy one, thats ok
<tiagoboldt> so I'll build it then :D
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: ok, now build the source and the binaries, and check that they install and run
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, to build the source is it done with pbuilder also?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: debuild, or dpkg-buildpackage
<Da_Clover> is anybody haveing some network difficulties with ubu-univ
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: gotta go now, once you built, installed and run succesfully you should prepare two debdiffs
<tiagoboldt> norsetto, after verifying that everything is ok, what shuold I do?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: one old-ubuntu -> new-ubuntu; and the other new-debian -> new-ubuntu
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: you know what a debdiff is?
<tiagoboldt> i do
<tiagoboldt> create them from what? whole source? .dsc files?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: from the .dsc
<tiagoboldt> ok
<tiagoboldt> :D
<tiagoboldt> than add it to the bug report, assign it to who?
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: check the one new-debian->new-ubuntu; old the cnahges in there MUST be reflected in your changelog
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: s/old the cnahges/all the changes
<tiagoboldt> ok
<tiagoboldt> they are
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: you don't assign it, you mark it confirmed, unassign yourself, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<tiagoboldt> ok :D
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: good :-) gotta go now, sleep well
<tiagoboldt> I'l finish this and do that afterwards
<tiagoboldt> hope it's all ok
<norsetto> g'night all
<tiagoboldt> thank you so much
<tiagoboldt> :D
<tiagoboldt> night'
<norsetto> tiagoboldt: don't dream debdiffs tonight ....
<tiagoboldt> xD
<tiagoboldt> that was the other night, otherwise I won't be doing this now=P
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-13
<ogra> james_w, you if you would upload a fix for bug 269150, i can approve a new upstream (i'm release manager for ubuntu-mobile, netbook-launcher is pat of the seeds)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269150 in netbook-launcher "No text under icons with Intrepid alpha 5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269150
<ogra> so new upstram would be appreciated :)
<james_w> ogra: cool, thanks. I'll ask Neil what he would like to do.
<ogra> i was planning to do that anyway ... i'll just add the FFe approval to the bug, if you dont come around to do it i'll do it next week before thursday
<james_w> ogra: I tested your ubuntu-mobile image yesterday, it works nicely. I didn't test the installer though.
<ogra> cool, thanks for that :)
<ogra> wlan did work fine ?
<james_w> um, probably not actually
<james_w> I've forgotten actually.
<james_w> I'll test again tomorrow
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ok
<danbh_intrepid> is anyone aware of problems with the rarian-compat package?
<andresmujica> hi motus!, one question where can i find the buildlog for a specific package?
<StevenK> On Launchpad
<andresmujica> ~builds ?
<StevenK> On https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtunepimp/0.5.3-7ubuntu2 ; there's links for the different arches
<StevenK> For example
<andresmujica> ok that's what i needed
<andresmujica> thks
<stefanlsd> Is there a place to view package history - im trying to find a package that may of been removed
<StevenK> In Launchpad
<StevenK> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source package>
<stefanlsd> StevenK: thanks. LP doesnt know about it.   im looking for   libcgi-pm-perl
<StevenK> Then that isn't the source package name
<Flannel> I don't think thats the binary package name either.
<persia> stefanlsd, If you know the binary appeared in an older release, try generating an apt-cache for the older release, and then running apt-cache showsrc libcgi-pm-perl against it.
<persia> stefanlsd, Or, if you want to use a pregenerated apt-cache, use rmadison -S libcgi-pm-perl
<persia> (and I'm tempted to agree with Flannel)
<danbh_intrepid> stefanlsd: maybe libcgi-perl ?
<stefanlsd> danbh_intrepid: thanks. that is probaly it. will install that and see if it gives me CGI.pm
<stefanlsd> #  Removal requested  on 2008-06-20. - # Deleted on 2008-06-20 by Martin Pitt - (From Debian) ROM; obsolete; superseded years ago by libcgi-pm-perl
<stefanlsd> mmm. seems like libcgi-pm-perl never made it in thou. will have to file a sync request.
<stefanlsd> how do i search depends again and look for packages currently in the archive depending on libcgi-pm-perl.  I know bugzilla3 is one, thats how i found this (it doesnt build anymore)
<StevenK> stefanlsd: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56890/
<StevenK> If they depend on perl-modules | libcgi-pm-perl, they're fine
<stefanlsd> StevenK: thanks. mm. not that many.  The main problem is that CGI.pm shipped with perl-modules is 3.29, while some applications require later. Like bugzilla needs 3.33, which debian says the user should install libcgi-pm-perl which repplaces CGI.pm. Do you think it becomes a candidate for a sync?
<StevenK> Hmmm.
<StevenK> % rmadison -u debian -s unstable libcgi-pm-perl
<StevenK> libcgi-pm-perl |     3.42-1 |      unstable | source, all
<stefanlsd> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-closed@lists.debian.org/msg196892.html  - debian saying to use the seperate package.
<persia> stefanlsd, Indeed.  The issue is that libcgi-perl was removed in favour of libcgi-pm-perl, but libcgi-pm-perl wasn't imported.
<StevenK> I'll talk to pitti about it when he surfaces
<StevenK> stefanlsd: Unfortunately, this will only fix it in intrepid
<stefanlsd> persia: yeah. the question is, is it necessary, as perl-modules should provide it now. (which it does) - just an older version than what bugzilla3 expects
<stefanlsd> StevenK:  bugzilla3 is only in intrepid
<StevenK> Ah, then we are fine
<persia> stefanlsd, I'll say "sometimes".  There are actually a number of the things in perl-modules lurking about, some more updated than others.  There's been not a small amount of discussion about this over the years, and much disagreement about how the maintainer of perl-modules should be doing things.
<StevenK> perl-modules is still bod?
<StevenK> Indeed.
<stefanlsd> my feeling is we should sync it if possible. to say inline with debian, and any other packages now, and in the future that depend on CGI.pm > 3.29
<persia> StevenK, won't it always be?
<stefanlsd> StevenK: from the list of Depends - it looks like just bugzilla3 which needs a newer version. Gnatsweb needs CGI.pm >= 2.56.
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Good morning.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<iulian> Hey Daniel.
<highvoltage> morning iulian and dholbach
<dholbach> hiya highvoltage
<iulian> Hello highvoltage.
<Burgundavia> 'ello highvoltage, dholbach
<dholbach> hi Burgundavia
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia
<highvoltage> shew, it's hot this morning.
<jsgotangco> wow retro motu
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: retro-motu?
<ajmitch> highvoltage: I think he means 'old people'
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: speak for yourself
<highvoltage> ah :)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I am
<highvoltage> I thought someone walked into the channel with 80's day-glo clothes and a boombox and I missed it.
<ajmitch> "can't touch this"
<jsgotangco> you get a prize!
<stefanlsd> StevenK: sync of libcgi-pm-perl actioned
<StevenK> stefanlsd: I've already sync'd it
<StevenK> stefanlsd: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcgi-pm-perl/3.42-1
<stefanlsd> StevenK: thanks. thats great.  Was there any arguments against the sync of it?
<StevenK> stefanlsd: Nope
<stefanlsd> StevenK: how long does it normally take before the mirrors get the updates?
<didrocks> morning everyone
<stefanlsd> hihi
<Laney> james_w: I submitted that debdiff from the library at uni :(
<stefanlsd> Out of interest, why doesnt ubuntu use the debian maintainer way of working. adopting and orphaning packages?
<persia> stefanlsd, It's a philosophical difference.  Essentially, Ubuntu is about teamwork and collaboration, and so it was decided not to have maintainers to avoid maintainer-lock.
<persia> If you look at the changelogs in Ubuntu, you'll see a lot of variation in uploaders.  This is because people are working on various things, which often touch several packages.
<persia> It's considered easier when e.g. updating a library, to be able to rebuild the rdepends directly, perhaps with API changes, rather than having to speak to each maintainer separately about that.
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. yeah. that makes sense
<stefanlsd> and i guess if you speak to the last uploaded, you are speaking to a 'maintainer'
<persia> Sometimes.  Depends on the reason for the last upload.  Personally, I'm very much not a fan of the "contact last uploader" rule : I think it's better to contact known interested parties.
<stefanlsd> although, sometimes it feels like there are too many packages to motu to know about and keep tabs on
<persia> Often I'll upload things for a library transition or to add a .desktop file or to fix a trivial FTBFS.  That doesn't mean I have any understanding of the package, and I get confused when someone asks me about it several months later.
<stefanlsd> persia: yeah. how do you find interested parties though?  i guess an LP team would be one way
<persia> On the other hand, there are several packages I watch, and although I may rarely if ever upload them, I'm certainly able to comment about them, or provide suggestions.
<stefanlsd> i quiet like the debian way though, with one person with an interest in a package completely dedicated to maintaining it, using it, watching mailing lists etc
<persia> Generally I start by asking here.  If nobody seems interested, and I still have a question, I'll look around for likely groups.  If I don't find one, I'll send email asking about it to ubuntu-motu@.  If there is no response, then I presume I'm the only interested person, and will either make my best guess, or work closely with Debian.
<persia> The changelog can be a hint, but depending on the specific changes, it may not be a good guideline of interest.
<persia> Where there is a clear specific maintainer for a package, this is usually obvious by a long string of updates in the changelog, and that would be the person to contact, but this is maintenance by activity, rather than by documentation.
<persia> So, in summary, if you know you're doing the right thing, just do it.  If you're not sure, ask here, ask people who have worked with the package (either in Ubuntu or Debian), etc.  If nobody can point you anywhere, you become the expert.
<persia> stefanlsd, Yeah, there's a lot of value to that model also.  Without Debian using the Debian way, Ubuntu couldn't exist.  That said, there's a lot of teams in Debian also, where the work is often similar to Ubuntu.
<stefanlsd> persia: yeah. ok. thanks :)
<Koon> asac: about the -vpnc and -pptp updates, I can provide new snapshots and tests that they compile, but cannot really check that they are working / not regressing.
<Koon> asac: also do you want them all at the 20081008 level ? -vpnc had no change between 0928 and 1008...
<asac> Koon: well. thats ok
<asac> Koon: i want all to be on the same date yes.
<asac> Koon: otherwise it might get confusing
<Koon> asac: I understand
<asac> Koon: if you are sure they havent changed ... then well. :)
<asac> if ther eis no interdiff then there wont be regressions at least ;)
<Koon> asac: I'll provide all of them on chinstrap with the 1008 dates, you'll pick the one you prefer :)
<asac> Koon: no need for chinstap
<asac> Koon: chinstrap == private ,) ... either put them on people.ubuntu.com or just to the bug
<Koon> asac: I'll attach them on the bug then, they are not that big.
<asac> Koon: i will sponsor all in the row
<asac> yeah
<asac> cool
<asac> thanks
<Koon> asac: done
<asac> Koon: whats the bug?
<Koon> all in bug 275608
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275608 in network-manager-openvpn "nm-openvpn "Passwords with Certificate (TLS)" panel has wrong labels and inverts passwords" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275608
<asac> thx
<asac> Koon: so how did you produce the origs?
<asac> just apt-get source network-manager (latest) and then tarring up the vpn-daemons dirs?
<Koon> asac: from a svn checkout
<Koon> at the revision used for 1008-224240
<Koon> (which should give the same results)
<Koon> asac: I'll be right back, I've to try switching cpu fans to kill the noise
<asac> Kopfgeldjaeger: why didnt you use the tarball?
<asac> or bzr?
<asac> Kopfgeldjaeger: oops ignor ;)
<freeflying> hi guys, gnome.asia conf will be held in beijing this weekend, if anyone would be there can drop me a mail more details: http://www.gnome.asia
<Koon> asac: just received build failure notifications for n-m-openvpn on... hardy (?!)
<asac_> Koon: ppa i guess
<Koon> asac: ah yes
<asac_> [PPA network-manager] [ubuntu/hardy] network-manager-openvpn
<asac_> Koon: ppa is busted in hardy since a few days :(
<asac_> somehow NM stopped to be able to install its build-depends
<asac_> namely: intltool
<asac_> (cannot be installed!!!)
<Koon> beh
<asac_> but maybe i am just blind ;)
<asac_> Koon: uploaded everything now
<asac_> Koon: next time please attach the .dsc
<Koon> asac: ok
<asac_> Koon: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18452672/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.network-manager_0.7~~svn20081008t224042-0ubuntu2~nm1~hardy1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<asac_> Koon: if you see any reason why that shouldnt work let me know ;)
<asac_> but i guess its a soyuz issue
<glatzor> dholbach, james_w, hello the ffe of packagekit from 9/30 has not yet been replied.
<glatzor> what can I do?
<james_w> hey glatzor
<dholbach> glatzor: ping somebody of https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+members :)
<glatzor> morning mvo!
<dholbach> glatzor: mvo is not here :)
 * dholbach hugs glatzor
<glatzor> morning james_w and dholbach :)
<glatzor> bye guys!
<white> anyone here using openswan?
<StevenK> Used to
<white> StevenK: maybe you can clarify something for me
<white> the scripts under /usr/lib/ipsec/, /usr/lib/ipsec/livetest in particular, when are they used?
<StevenK> No idea about that, sorry
<white> i'll keep looking :)
<james_w> anybody want to take a look at fatsort? Apparently syncing the latest from Debian would be a good idea. I'd like to find out if there are any new features.
<AnAnt> persia: sl-modem ?
<persia> AnAnt, Just to make sure, you know that me playing with it will have absolutely no effect on it getting into Debian, and is unlikely to help it getting into intrepid, right?
<AnAnt> persia: yeah, but I wanted an opinion
<AnAnt> persia: probably you can give hints about adding dkms support to it
<persia> I will, but based on what you've said, I suspect it works wonderfully :)
<persia> I really don't know anything about dkms, except that it's supposed to compile modules locally on installation.
<james_w> this is bug 269855?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269855 in sl-modem "Please apply patch to fix issue with Si3054 modems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269855
<persia> james_w, No, it's a complete repackaging to fix most of the outstanding issues with ls-modem.  Includes *lots* of patches.
<persia> New upstream version, amd64 support, additional device support, proper ALSA integration, etc.
<crimsun> james_w: that approach is fine with me (and sorry about not checking Debian; it was 0100 ;-), but I went the safe route
<slytherin> AnAnt: you should talk with superm1 about dkms. And by the way, is dkms present in Debian?
<slytherin> ï»¿geser: Could you please do a rebuild for libxstream-java? pitti says there is no other way to retrieve the binary.
<crimsun> slytherin: according to rmadison, no
<AnAnt> slytherin: nope, not in debian yet
 * persia does the libxstream-java build1 upload
<james_w> crimsun: no problem, I just want to know if I can file a sync request, or it needs an FFe first.
<slytherin> persia: thanks
<superm1> AnAnt, there is an ITP filed for it, and a bunch of discussion that happened
<superm1> I believe the person who was pushing to get it in is still looking for a sponsor though
<AnAnt> superm1: that's me !
<AnAnt> superm1: I filed the ITP I mean
<AnAnt> superm1: what discussions you talking about ?
<AnAnt> superm1: you talking about sl-modem or dkms ?
<AnAnt> superm1: anyways, I meant the ITP for sl-modem
<superm1> AnAnt, i mean for DKMS
<superm1> AnAnt, dave palimino (sp) filed the ITP for DKMS
<AnAnt> superm1: ok, I want to add dkms support to sl-modem, I noticed that sl-modem currently builds the modules in debian/rules, dunno how module-assistant uses that
<AnAnt> superm1: it is in a binary-modules: target in debian/rules, so for dkms, shall I add the dkms commands there ?
<persia> AnAnt, module-assistant needs you to build a -source package, and add m-a hooks.
<AnAnt> superm1: or should they be in a postinst file ?
<superm1> AnAnt, generally you do the dkms steps in the postinst
<AnAnt> persia: yes, there is an sl-modem-source package
<superm1> that way you don't ship a pre-compiled version
<AnAnt> superm1: ok
<AnAnt> superm1: so a package can support both m-i module-assitant and dkms, right ?
<AnAnt> superm1: I mean, if I leave the debian/rules as is (except for adding install dkms.conf), and add a postinst to run dkms commands, then the package can work with both, right ?
<superm1> AnAnt, yeah I suppose
<superm1> AnAnt, i've always torn out the m-a stuff so as to not confuse people in Ubuntu
<superm1> but that will work
<AnAnt> cool
<persia> If you can, it might make sense to try to detect if the build is happening in Debian or Ubuntu, and either do m-a or dkms hooks as a result.
<AnAnt> persia: actually I will check for dkms instead of debian/ubuntu
<AnAnt> that's what I thought of
<persia> AnAnt, Remember to check if it's available, rather than if it's installed.
<AnAnt> persia: [ -x /usr/sbin/dkms ] ?
<persia> No, that checks if it is installed.  You need to see if the package could be installed.
<persia> If you do that, you'd have to build-depend on dkms, and it would FTBFS in a distro without DKMS
<superm1> persia, why not just recommend DKMS?
<superm1> if it's available it shows up, and it runs in the postinst like AnAnt was suggesting
<persia> superm1, Because there is no Build-Recommends:
<superm1> persia, it's not needed to build
<superm1> persia, just in the postinst
<persia> superm1, The trick is to create a source package that uses m-a if built in a distro without DKMS, and uses DKMS if built in a distro that has it.
<superm1> oh I see.
<persia> Err.  create a source package that generates a binary package that ...
<superm1> yeah
<persia> Otherwise AnAnt has to maintain the source in two places, or maintain the delta, which is annoying.
<superm1> well aside from clever trickery, maintaining the delta wouldn't be "horrible"
<persia> No, but the clever trickery is better, no?
<superm1> because sl-modem isn't rev'd too much I don't believe
<superm1> clever trickery is ideal, but time consuming to come up with
<persia> Actually, upstream is fairly active.  It's just that nobody was maintaining it, so it gave the impression of bing inactive.
<persia> Well, it's unlikely to get uploaded anywhere until either squeeze or jaunty open, so there's time now.
<AnAnt> it is active upstream
<AnAnt> I think
<persia> And we're *way* behind.
<superm1> ah I see
<AnAnt> to tell you the truth
<persia> I think we last updated for Edgy or Feisty or something
<AnAnt> the preivous maintainer seems that he didn't want to package 2.9.11 for copyright reasons
<superm1> well AnAnt then for clever trickery, you'll need to have debian/control dynamically created.  Perhaps can you run something such as apt-cache policy from within debian/rules to query if DKMS is available?
<superm1> buildd's should have a valid apt cache in their env
<directhex> AnAnt, legitimate copyright reasons?
<AnAnt> directhex: dunno
<AnAnt> hang on
<AnAnt> here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354216
<directhex> see, this is why wikis are useful for team collab on packaging
<ubottu> Debian bug 354216 in sl-modem-source "upstream license patched in debian package" [Unknown,Closed]
<AnAnt> superm1: ok, I got two modules slusb & slamr, both are built using same make command
<AnAnt> superm1:  so shall I do BUILT_MODULE_NAME[0]="slusb slamr" ?
<superm1> AnAnt, no you have separate built module name blocks for each
<superm1> but only need the one build command
<superm1> look at lirc
<persia> Can't one relicense BSD code as GPL code, for recent BSD anyway?
<superm1> it has a ton of modules, see how it did dkms.conf
<AnAnt> superm1: ok, another problem
<AnAnt> superm1: slusb cannot be built for kernel modules > 2.6.24 , how can I handle that ?
<superm1> AnAnt, do you have a patch for it?, or it simply CANT be built for such modules?
<AnAnt> superm1: upstream says that there's support for it for kernels > 2.6.24
<superm1> so what's the problem then?
<AnAnt> superm1: actually, in upstream's makefile he checks for kernel version > 2.6.24 before building slusb
<superm1> oh less than 2.6.24
<AnAnt> superm1: how should I handle that in dkms.conf ?
<superm1> right
<superm1> AnAnt, I wouldn't worry about it, the ubuntu release it's entering is going to be significantly further than 2.6.24
<AnAnt> superm1: well, what if one wants to build for 2.6.24 for example ?
<persia> AnAnt, Let's assume that everyone using this will be at least on 2.6.26 (lenny), if not 2.6.27 (intrepid).
<persia> AnAnt, If you *really* care about backports to hardy, you might look at a source-changed-backport, but there's not exactly a lot of users complaining.
<AnAnt> persia: will it be complex to assume otherwise ?
<AnAnt> superm1: what's BUILT_MODULE_LOCATION ?
<AnAnt> superm1: is that where to find the module after build ?
<superm1> AnAnt, yeah
<persia> AnAnt, hardy is 2.6.24.
<AnAnt> hmmm, sl-modem-source package has the source files packed in a /usr/src/sl-modem.tar.bz2, does dkms support that ?
<nhandler> Good morning Daniel
<dholbach> hi nhandler
<geser> slytherin: was libxstream-java the only affected package?
<slytherin> geser: yes as per my analysis.
<geser> persia: have you tried asking cprov if he can recover libxstream-java back from LP?
<james_w> he uploaded a new version to build it again
<cprov> geser: ubuntu primary archive ?
<geser> cprov: yes, LP ate libxstream-java  (arch:all) after to many promotions/demotions
<geser> cprov: persia "fixed" it by a new upload
<cprov> geser: uhm, promotion + demotion in the same publishing cycle ?
<persia> cprov, Something like that.  I think it was multiverse<->unverse
<cprov> persia: uhm, is there a bug filed about it ?  (let me check)
<persia> cprov, Not for that specifically.  pitti recommended an upload in -devel some time back.  I'll see if I can find context.
<persia> No, that goes farther than my current backscroll.
<james_w> lytherin> pitti: need some help. The binary for libxstream-java was eaten by LP when moving from multiverse to universe and back again. (bug #268538). Any idea how can it be restored?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268538 in libxstream-java "Please move package to universe" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268538
<james_w> <pitti> slytherin: hm, I guess we can only upload a build1 and shove it through NEW
<james_w> cprov: persia ^
<cprov> james_w: thanks, let me find the bug in soyuz context.
<shahriar86> Hi I want to report a bug in Probhat (Bengali) Keyboard layout (Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex Beta 1) how can I report a bug in such a way that a Bengali speaking Developer (tester) notices it?>?
<shahriar86> I am aware of launchpad is the place to report bug. but the problem (bug) is of complex type that any developer won't understand it. Only Bengali speaking people will understand what I am saying
<shahriar86> so is there any specific way I can approach the Bengali developers for Probhat layout?
<shahriar86> I am more of looking for the people who packaged Probhat Keyboard layout in Intrepid (its almost close to imposible to make a non-Bengali understand the problem/bug)
<shahriar86> any help?
<AnAnt> shahriar86: isn't there a bengali loco team ?
<AnAnt> shahriar86: and can an arab understand it ?
<shahriar86> not really
<shahriar86> yes there are few bengali loco team. But they are not active that much (funny thing is I am also part of a Bengali speaking Loco team)
<shahriar86> I need to find out who have packaged the Bangladesh Probhat Keyboard layout
<shahriar86> then It will be easier
<AnAnt> shahriar86: what's the package name ?
<shahriar86> its a keyboard layout
<AnAnt> shahriar86: or do you  know what file is causing you the problem ?
<shahriar86> Probhat
<shahriar86> no sorry
<shahriar86> the thing is in Bengali there are few complex words we write them in one go. like say à¦¸à§à¦ we write it s+t in probhat we type s+/+t to join them
<shahriar86> now it seems the key "/" is missing or omitted somehow
<shahriar86> when ever I am typing s+/+t I only get "s" not "st"
<shahriar86> Bangladesh Probhat Keyboard layout
<AnAnt> shahriar86: are you using hardy or intrepid now ?
<shahriar86> I am using hardy 8.04.1 kde 3.5
<shahriar86> I run Intrepid in Virtual box 1.5.6
<shahriar86> I installed Intrepid last Thursday
<AnAnt> the problem is in hardy or intrepid ?
<shahriar86> intrepid
<shahriar86> in hardy it is working just fine
<shahriar86> (the way it should work)
<shahriar86> the problem is in Intrepid beta 1
<AnAnt> shahriar86: is it in console or GUI ?
<shahriar86> gui
<shahriar86> ah can you rephrase last question about gui or cui
<shahriar86> not sure about how a keyboard layout could be gui or cui
<AnAnt> try asking in #ubuntu+1 about the package that contains keyboard layouts
<AnAnt> in Intrepid
<shahriar86> ok thanks
<slytherin> shahriar86: all the indic related packages in Ubuntu are inherited from Debian. The package that contains keyboard layout seems to be scim-tables-additional and the file is probably /usr/share/scim/tables/Bengali-probhat.bin. Even if you file a bug in Ubuntu, chances are that it will get forwarded to Debian.
<shahriar86> ok thanks I am checking with it
<AnAnt> shahriar86: you are using scim ?
<shahriar86> no
<AnAnt> slytherin: I think it's something else
<shahriar86> its an stand alone keyboard layout (more of a default keyboard for Bengali speaking users)
<slytherin> shahriar86: how do you select keyboard layout?
<shahriar86> I know who have developed the initial layout but not sure who have packaged it
<shahriar86> from system>preferences>>keyboard>>layouts
<shahriar86> Add (country Bangladesh)>> Variants Probhat Keyboard
<slytherin> shahriar86: that is package xkb then or xkb-data
<shahriar86> ok thanks
<shahriar86> so how do I report the problem?
<slytherin> ï»¿shahriar86: First you can try sending mail to indlinux list to check if anyone else has faced the issue. If no one and it is specific to ubuntu then file a bug.
<shahriar86> ok thanks
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> if someone has free time
<goshawk> can please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss
<goshawk> ?
<goshawk> thanks
<slytherin> goshawk: I believe at this point of time in release cycle people are busy with fixing build failures and bugs. :-)
<goshawk> oops
<goshawk> sorry
<goshawk> i didn't thought about it
<goshawk> :(
<slytherin> persia: there?
<AnAnt> superm1: hello, I added dkms support to sl-modem, but it only builds one module, not the other, and make.log is empty !
<AnAnt> not really empty, but it doesn't show the CC lines at all, even for the compiled module
<AnAnt> slytherin: about kbd, the special laptop keys (like web browser key, ...) are they defined in the kbd/kbd-data ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: I don't think so.
<AnAnt> ok
<fabrice_sp> DktrKranz: thanks for acking Bug #242572! \o/  Any other motu-release here for the second ack? ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<rainct> Hi
<rainct> Uhm.. I've installed Intrepid Beta (full format! :D) and now the computer *completely* hangs (ie, I can't raise elephants) when I try to enter GNOME (openbox wtf :P). Did anyone else experience the same problem?
<geser> rainct: have you tried changing to the console and checking top and also perhaps dmesg?
<rainct> geser: I can't. It's *dead* (with "raise elephants" I mean Alt+PetSis+R,S,E,I,U,B - even that doesn't work).
<rainct> I looked at .xsession-errors after rebooting but that doesn't say anything interesting
 * rainct will try again once has has finished upgrading everything
<sebner> rainct: upgraded to intrepid?
 * sebner hides
<rainct> sebner: nope, clean install
<ajmitch> well if it was a full kernel panic & everything went splat, then nothing would get logged
<sebner> ^^
 * ajmitch blames the circus midgets
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, you're welcome ;)
<rainct> (that's the .xsession-errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/57126/plain/)
<rainct> How can I get the MAC address of my ethernet card? (And why is nm-applet so complicated? :P)
<DktrKranz> rainct, ifconfig | grep HWaddr
<Laney> rainct: ifconfig or nm-applet both have it
<Laney> "Connection information" in the latter
<rainct> Laney: but you have to configure the connection first, and it asks you for the MAC address for that
<rainct> DktrKranz: ah, of course. thanks :)
<Laney> rainct: :O what kind of connection?
<rainct> Laney: wired
<Laney> I've not had to do that
<DktrKranz> rainct, one non-obvious solution would be sorting skbuff linked list with a kernel module, I had a LKM which does that
<leonel_> hello :   I'm trying to backport Django 1.0 from intrepid to hardy and need  python-sphinx   when doing  debuild -S -sa  I get this error :  dh_clean: Sorry, but 6 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper.   with the package  sphinx
<leonel_> even if I change the  debhelper version in   debian/control
<geser> leonel_: check debian/compat
<leonel_> geser: thank you
<Adri2000> zul: so, what's up with fail2ban?
<rainct> I suppose I can replace nm-applet with network-manager?
<james_w> ScottK: hi, were you giving an ACK for a packagekit standing freeze exception?
<RAOF> rainct: No; nm-applet is the applet that allows you to interact with network-manager
<rainct> RAOF: uhm? but network-manager isn't installed on Intrepid
<RAOF> ...?!
<rainct> errr.. network-admin
<RAOF> Aaah.  Yes.
<rainct> but it is neither in the repos :(
<rainct> well, can someone tell me how to configure the 3G connection
<rainct> please?
<rainct> ie, where do I choose which device the modem is?
<rainct_> argh, finally it's working :P
<rainct_> somehow nm-applet's configuration window and I aren't compatible, but now that's it's working it's actually pretty nice :P
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-14
<DaskreecH> Hello
 * DaskreecH waves at jrib 
<DaskreecH> Can someone look at a package issue?
<jrib> ola
<DaskreecH> in ibex there is a conflict with the xserver-xorg-video-unichrome driver and xserver-xorg-core
<DaskreecH> The unichrome package depends on a -core package 1.1.1 or greater
<DaskreecH> 1.5.1 is installed but the unichrome blanks out and refuses to install
<DaskreecH> I be back
<RAOF> james_w: You gnome-power-manager rock!
<StevenK> ajmitch: It looks like pnetc should be killed since pnet-assemblies is gone
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes, the whole set should have been removed
<ajmitch> all a nice mess of interdependent packages which has a barely active upstream
<StevenK> ajmitch: Could you be bugged to see what's left?
<ajmitch> I could
 * ajmitch suspects it'll just be pnetc left
<StevenK> If it's just pnetc, I'll bin it nowish
<ajmitch> yep, just that one
<StevenK> ajmitch: Killed.
 * ajmitch cheers
<jml> is there a way I can list all packages I've installed from a particular archive?
<Burgundavia> jml: possibly with a custom search in synaptic
<lifeless> jml: no
<lifeless> jml: because a package version may have multiple archives as sources
<lifeless> jml: but you can figure out the packages which might be from there :P
<jml> lifeless: yeah, well..
<jml> lifeless: my real question is "why is doko's ppa in my sources.list?"
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<Burgundavia> jml: one way to figure out is to look at the locally installed packages list in synaptic, then remove dokos ppa, then reload and look at that list
<Burgundavia> anything new is from that ppa
<viviersf> hi ajmitch :-) long time ...
<didrocks> morning
<ajmitch> hi viviersf
<viviersf> how you doing ajmitch ?
<ajmitch> good, busy, how are you?
<viviersf> ajmitch, good, busy hehe, no longer working for impilinux
<ajmitch> what are you doing now?
<viviersf> ajmitch, same old, but working for siemens now
<ajmitch> ah nice
<viviersf> jip
<viviersf> you still at same place ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<viviersf> ah okies
<ajmitch> still planning to do MOTU stuff? :)
<viviersf> ajmitch, yeah, im just trying to get my life in order, as soon as i get rid of one fire, another one starts elsewhere
<ajmitch> that's no fun
<viviersf> ajmitch, yeah i know, as soon as i can get internet at home again, ill start doing some stuff for motu
<persia> Anyone familiar with mongrel about?
<stefanlsd> Does anyone have an idea why i get this - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/57333/.  Essentially with debuild -S -sa - configure: error: Cannot find Ncurses (-ncurses). please check out your system setup.
<persia> stefanlsd, Could you paste the offending debian/rules?
<stefanlsd> persia: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/57335/ (thats the whole rules file) - this package is a direct sync from debian, and I havent changed anything yet.
<persia> stefanlsd, You've run into a package that is annoying.  apt-get build-dep sabre before building source.  It's not too hard to fix it, but I'm not going to fix it before Lenny releases.
<persia> (and I don't suspect anyone else on the Games team will either)
<stefanlsd> persia: kk. so essentially i'm missing some build dep on my system that it requires
<persia> stefanlsd, Right.  If you look at the rules file, you'll notice that clean depends on stamp-configure, so it's running the ./configure during clean, and then deleting the results.
<persia> Exactly why is does this would require someone to dig through SVN history and see who made it do that, and which bug they were fixing.
<persia> Personally, I don't think it's worth doing that until Lenny is released, because of the chance that some RC bug might appear.
<persia> And I don't think it's worth Ubuntu delta (especially for a package maintained by a team comprised of people from both Debian and Ubuntu) to fix it locally, as it's easy enough to work around.
<stefanlsd> persia: and just to make sure i get it - normally a debuild doesnt (or shouldnt) call a configure, that should happen when i use pbuilder and it will download build deps
<persia> stefanlsd, In my opinion, a clean rule should limit itself, as much as possible, to build-essential.  Mind you, that's not always sufficient.
<persia> Calling ./configure just seems plain wrong, as it forces that the ./configure happens to the current system, which is unlikely to be pristine.  Mind you, in this case, it cleans up after itself : I suspect it's part of making the patches work cleanly.
<stefanlsd> (or have the build deps installed)
<stefanlsd> ok. will just install the build deps for it, thanks for the info. im attempting to backport a security fix into the earlier version. (hence playing with silly games)   :)
<persia> Policy doesn't provide any guidelines, and expects all the build-dependencies to be installed on the developer machine, as a side effect of standard Debian practice, so it's a minor point.
<persia> Oh, yeah, backporting a security fix means that even if this was fixed, you couldn't take advantage of the fix :)
<persia> stefanlsd, Hrm.  Seems there's a sabre upload pending in Debian : anything that ought get there now?
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. its already fixed in the latest version 0.2.4-25.  i was just fixing the other releases.
<persia> stefanlsd, OK.  I just saw a sponsorship request, and wanted to reduce your merge later if that would help.  Thanks for the confirmation that there's nothing to do there.
<huats> hello everyone !
<Koon> dholbach: are there any tentative dates for the next OpenWeek ?
<dholbach> Koon: I'll ask jono about it
<Koon> dholbach: thx
<dholbach> Koon: nothing announced yet
<james_w> ogra: Neil has netbook-launcher, window-picker-applet, maximus and go-home-applet for Intrepid, do I have your permission to push them tonight?
<james_w> ogra: I haven't reviewed them yet
<ogra> yep, saw the conversation :)
<ogra> feel free to upload at will, i might need FFe bugs if you have new upstreams though
<james_w> ok, I'll document what I do
<james_w> he's working on a fix for the fact that you can't shutdown UNR, it will be quite a big change, it will hopefully be ready this week, how do you feel about that?
<ogra> as long as it doesnt introduce regressions i'm fine
<ogra> james_w, we all suffer from that late fusa change it seems, i feel the pain as i have the same probs with ltsp
<james_w> oh, this isn't a fusa change, it's a long-standing gnome-session change
<james_w> at least it's possible to shut it down now via log out + gdm, for a while you couldn't even do that
<james_w> lfaraone: hey, did you file that bug report?
<AnAnt> superm1: Hello
<AnAnt> superm1: I added dkms support to sl-modem, but it only builds one module, but not the other, and make.log has no useful info
<AnAnt> superm1: no CC lines in it
<lfaraone> james_w: er, sorry, I didn't have any time last night.
<james_w> that's ok
<lfaraone> james_w: morgs reported bug 283194, I'll mark it as also affecting the other packages.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283194 in sugar "Sugar activities don't show up" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283194
<james_w> lfaraone: and subscribe me please
<lfaraone> james_w: subscribed
<james_w> thanks
<lfaraone> james_w: btw, it looks like /usr/share/activities was the directory that we used in hardy.
<lfaraone> james_w: (which was incorrect)
<lfaraone> james_w: so I think this affects all the sugar activity packages, since not even the locally-packaged-activities show up. will test, however (later today)
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> lfaraone: if you could drop a note in the bug explaining what to change in the source package to fix this that would speed things up for me as well
<james_w> lfaraone: if I run sugar emulator and choose shutdown from within will that just close Xephyr, or shutdown my machine?
<lfaraone> james_w: it will just close xephyr.
<james_w> cool
<lfaraone> james_w: (iirc)
<lfaraone> james_w: a bug has been filed upstream to add a "log out" option. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8815
<james_w> it apparently does neither
<morgs> james_w: lfaraone: patch attached to bug 283194 - I'm not sure how best to apply it - in debian/patches ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283194 in sugar-web-activity "Sugar activities don't show up" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283194
<james_w> ah, it already has a list of places to look for activities?
<james_w> that's probably even better
<james_w> oh, and hey morgs
<morgs> hey james_w
<morgs> yes, it already has a few alternatives
<james_w> yeah, I think doing that would be more appropriate
<james_w> that searches /usr/share/sugar/activities/ first I guess?
<lfaraone> morgs: that's actually really good.
<morgs> james_w: yeah
<lfaraone> morgs: so next cycle we can actually fix them to go in the "proper" dir, right?
<morgs> yes :)
<lfaraone> morgs: (cause I _just_ found the part of the package that we'd need to fix in sugar-*-activities
<james_w> heh :-)
<morgs> if only we had more time :)
<lfaraone> (line 64 in debian/cdbs/1/class/python-sugar.mk on the imported debian packages)
<james_w> the Debian maintainer already plans to fix the Debian packages at some point?
<lfaraone> james_w: idk if he even knows the problem.
<morgs> Yes, although he's not facing imminent release...
<james_w> I thought he was the one that told you about it
<james_w> yeah, not bothered about pulling the fixed packages at this point, we can just get it fixed there now, and know it will work for Jaunty
<morgs> debian maintainer said to me "For quite some time I could only make my own test setup work by adding a symlink from ~/.Activities to /usr/share/activities. Just tested with a symlink from /usr/share/sugar/activities and indeed it works. Super. Thanks a lot for this hint!!"
<james_w> morgs: works for me :-)
<james_w> I'll upload a fixed sugar package in a moment
<morgs> james_w: thanks!
<lfaraone> james_w: wonderful. I'll mark all the packages I filed it against as invalid (since I just attached all the other activities to that bug)
<lfaraone> s/invalid/wontfix/
<james_w> lfaraone: just mark them Invalid I think, it will be fixed next cycle, but keeping them open just creates more work then
<james_w> I can do it if you like
<lfaraone> james_w: wont-fix has the same meaning as invalid for the most part, exept it awknoledges that there was a problem there.
<lfaraone> (if I'm correct)
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> though we do plan to fix it
<james_w> doesn't really matter though
<persia> morgs, james_w: be careful about just adding a symlink to the package : consider the upgrade case, and users who may have activities in the wrong location.
<james_w> yeah, we're not symlinking
<persia> Ah.  I wasn't sure from backscroll.  Extending the search list sounds excellent :)
<james_w> we're extending the search path to look in the location where they currently live. Once they are fixed we will drop the patch
<james_w> yeah, symlink was ruled out the other day, I didn't realise there was a search path we could extend.
 * lfaraone gives morgs a cookie.
 * morgs nom nom nom
 * directhex pokes RAOF viciously for passing bug onto him
<lfaraone> morgs: botsnack.
<morgs> heh
<james_w> nice, journal shows up as well now
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<james_w> hey sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi james_w
<lfaraone> james_w: wonderfuk.
<lfaraone> *wonderufl
<sebner> hihu sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<Riddell> didrocks: ping
<Riddell> swfdec0.8?  does that mean gstreamer and whatever need to have a last minute transition?
<Riddell> hmm, gstreamer doesn't seem to be in the rdepends of current swfdec
<didrocks> Riddell: pong
<didrocks> Riddell: swfdec-gnome and swfdec-mozilla are on the road
<Riddell> didrocks: on the road to arrive before freeze in two days?
<Riddell> didrocks: do you know if .swf files are preferred modifiable form?
<didrocks> Riddell: swfdec-gnome is already done and wait for sponsoring
<didrocks> swfdec-mozilla need just some checking
<didrocks> and will be ok for tomorrow
<didrocks> Riddell: no, I do not know for .swf files about modifiable form
<Riddell> they're in swfdec0.7 too so I guess someone has checked they are
<Riddell> didrocks: accepted
<sistpoty|work> Riddell: I doubt that .swf is the preferred form, but rather the actionscript source
<sebner> sistpoty|work: .fla?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: no idea what the file ending is, but you can read it with an editor ;)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: ah not fla then
<directhex> yay, sebner is here
<sebner> directhex: \o/
<Riddell> sistpoty|work: so you can't modify .swf files?
<directhex> sebner, so, who do you reckon i should beat up to sponsor one last mono merge for intrepid, to fix ickle issues like security holes?
<sistpoty|work> Riddell: I'm not 100% sure about the whole flash thingy, but I know that you can create .swf from actionscript files
<sistpoty|work> Riddell: by compiling them
<sebner> directhex: make a dice (paper), write names on it and ROLL it :P
<sebner> yep. swf are the binaries
<directhex> sebner, let's see, who to put on the dice...
<sebner> directhex: hehe, but you don't have that many names though ^^
<directhex> sebner, slomo would do it if he wasn't already working a 86 hour day. pitti i could probably bribe, but his TODO is about 41GiB big...
<sebner> directhex: so.. who remains :)
<sistpoty|work> sebner: as far as I've read it right now, .fla seems to be a project file (which I assume to contain the individual action script files then?)
<directhex> sebner, dunno. reckon Hobbsee is bribeable?
<directhex> sistpoty|work, .ACTIONSCRIPT, would you believe?
<sebner> sistpoty|work: yep, /me had to work with that in school
<sebner> directhex: try it ^^
<directhex> wait, wikipaedo says ".as"
<sistpoty|work> ah, right
<sebner> sistpoty|work: but you can also produce swf files without any actionscript. you can make animations with klicki klicki ^^
<directhex> sebner, isn't there some list of who's meant to sponsor things on a given day of the week? i can't find it
<sistpoty|work> sebner: but can you also open a .swf file and change the animation with klick klick again? Or do you need the project file then?
<sebner> directhex: never heard of it
<sistpoty|work> s/klick klick/klicki klicki/ :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: hrhr, dunno but afaik the swf is the binary so unchangeable and you need the project file
<directhex> plenty of people modify SWF files
<directhex> just think of all those modified versions of flash games out there
<sistpoty|work> sebner: ah, that's what I assumed then
<persia> directhex, There's a list of who is archive admin per day of week, but not who is sponsor (most days there are many sponsors)
<directhex> persia, ah, hence my confusion.
<lfaraone> If a package uses Gconf and keys need to be changed from upstream default to work with ubuntu (like settinga  key from true to false), how would I go about that in a postinstall script?
<lfaraone> How hard is it to get a SRU for packages that are unusable durning a releasae?
<persia> lfaraone, Not hard.  Falls under the "Doesn't even work" rule.
<lfaraone> (like, if there's a critical bug in foopackage (in univ.) and it isn't fixed by releaaseday)
<lfaraone> persia: kk.
<lfaraone> persia: what if the fix requires a new upstream version? (that adds new features etc)
<persia> lfaraone, Try not to let that happen :)
<persia> That's highly discouraged.
<persia> post-release is the strictest freeze we have, and there's a compeltely different (stricter) team that reviews the patches.
<persia> lfaraone, Also, for changing gconf schemas, I suspect you might want to start with the dh_gconf manpage (although I may be wrong).
<jdong> lfaraone: in the entire history of Ubuntu there have been about two cases of new-upstream-version accepted. I was driving one of them and it took almost a release cycle for me to get that through
<jdong> so I agree with the "try not to do that" strategy :)
<persia> Anyone from MOTU Release have a bit to look at bug #280829?  Needs a second ACK : it's an update to the KDE 2ch client, without which users cannot post to 2ch.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280829 in kita2 "[FFe] Please upgrade kita2 to 1.90.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280829
<Riddell> cody-somerville, jdong, TheMuso, \sh: motu-sru love needed on bug 268260
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268260 in libxmlada2 "GNAT 4.2 Transition Tracking Bug" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268260
<sistpoty|work> persia: confirmed
<persia> sistpoty|work, Thanks.
<sistpoty|work> jdong: do you happen to be familiar with ogmrip (FFe bug #268063) and have an opinion?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268063 in ogmrip "please sync ogmrip 0.12.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268063
<jdong> sistpoty|work: yeah let me take a look
<sistpoty|work> thanks jdong
<jdong> sistpoty|work: I think it's a good idea; upstream has abandoned the 0.11.x branch and it's basically one of the only ogg theora GUI-friendly encoders we've got
<sistpoty|work> jdong: ok, thanks
<jdong> sure thing
<directhex> so who's a core dev, and in the mood for a nice friendly merge full of security bug closing?
<morgs> james_w: bug 283279 has a debdiff for you.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283279 in sugar-pollbuilder-activity "patch for sugar-pollbuilder-activity" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283279
<morgs> james_w: fixes bug 283254 and bug 283269
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283254 in sugar-pollbuilder-activity "sugar-pollbuilder cannot be installed" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283254
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283269 in sugar-pollbuilder-activity "Failure to launch poll builder" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283269
<zul> sistpoty|work: ping
<sistpoty|work> zul: pong
<zul> sistpoty|work: so ec2
<zul> sistpoty|work: basically we didnt have these tools before
<zul> sistpoty|work: and its actually soren's package as well ;)
<james_w> morgs: no need to open a separate bug report for a patch, you can just attach it to one of the bugs :-)
<sistpoty|work> zul: ah, heh... but I recall a FFe that had something to do with e2c, right? maybe for vmbuilder? or s.th. different?
<morgs> james_w: OK cool :)
<james_w> morgs: I'll take a look a little later if that's ok
<morgs> james_w: np
<zul> sistpoty|work: not that I know of
<sistpoty|work> zul: hm... I guess I need to buy a better brain *g*
<zul> sistpoty|work: lol
<sistpoty|work> grml... lp times out when trying to find the information about the past FFe :(
<lfaraone> jdong: what were the cases?
<jdong> lfaraone: compiled with the wrong compiler, against libraries with unsupported stubs for critical network calls, heavily patched and repacked sources upstream doesn't support, segfaults with most runtimes, otherwise it starts but is 100x slower and uses 10x more RAM than it should.
<jdong> (azureus 2.4.x.x < gutsy)
<sistpoty|work> zul: ah, it was ec2-init (bug #269434)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269434 in ubuntu "[FFe] New package: ec2-init" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269434
<zul> sistpoty|work: ah yeah....I forgot about ec2-init
<lfaraone> jdong: wah.
<lfaraone> *woah
<sistpoty|work> zul: I assume that ec2-ami-tools make that amazon ec2 thingy more complete then?
<zul> sistpoty|work: yep
<sistpoty|work> zul: +1 from me then
<jdong> lfaraone: yeah along the whole way my argument was (1) it's an extremely popular app (2) it can't possibly get any worse than this
<jdong> and even then it was difficult to convince. so don't take this route. try to resolve before release if it requires a new version
<zul> sistpoty|work: thanks
<sistpoty|work> np
<lfaraone> jdong: kk. I take it I have until the RC comes out on the 23rd, right?
<lfaraone> jdong: (we already have  FFE for new versions)
<lfaraone> (on this group of pgks)
<lfaraone> pkgs*
<jdong> lfaraone: correct
<james_w> lfaraone: what's the bug?
<lfaraone> james_w: hrm?
<lfaraone> james_w: morgs ' bug, or the one I'm talking aobut?
<lfaraone> james_w: the latter is jsut the other packages in sugar that havn't been updated
<james_w> lfaraone: ah, ok. Why weren't the synced with the rest?
<lfaraone> james_w: debian doesn't have them.
<lfaraone> james_w: we have more packages than debian.
<james_w> lfaraone: ah, ok. Do they not work with the new sugar?
<lfaraone> james_w: most don't.
<james_w> how many packages are we talking about?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lfaraone> james_w: 3 or 4, I think.
<lfaraone> james_w: I'll have to do more testing.
<james_w> ok, will it just be uploading new versions?
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<persia> I've an uncertainty about an initscript, and would like some advice.  Specifically, timidity attempts to start/restart a daemon when installed/upgraded.  In some cases, pulseaudio doesn't permit a connection to the soundcard.  This breaks the installation.  It works OK on boot.
<persia> The postinst calls invoke-rc.d timidity start || exit $? which means that when it fails, it breaks the package installation.
<persia> I am tempted to change this to  invoke-rc.d timidity start || true, but wanted to get another opinion.
<bddebian> Hi sys
<bddebian> Err sistpoty|work
<james_w> persia: I assume there is no way to detect the condition, either before, or when the error happens?
<persia> Well, I can tell that timidity couldn't connect.  I suppose I could check for a running pulseaudio, but it's not meaningfully distinct from being blocked by anything else.
<persia> On the other hand, most other things don't block the kind of connect timidity makes.  I don't think this would fix the bug, but rather that it might be a good workaround until someone can spend some time with pulse and timidity for jaunty, and make them do the right thng.
<james_w> I think it sounds reasonable, but it is out of the ordinary
<sistpoty|work> persia: changing the postinst seems correct to me, the only counter-reason I can think of, would be if dependant packages would need a running timidity in their maintainer scripts as well (but then these should get fixed as well imho)
<persia> sistpoty|work, None of the dependencies need a running timidity daemon to run, although they may not generate sound if timidity is not running (in which case the user can start timidity).
<sistpoty|work> persia: but I guess the init script displays s.th. to let users now that it couldn't be started, right?
<persia> The exception is wildmidi, which depends on the timidity configuration, rather than timidity itself, and so should be able to generate sound directly.  As this is the selected MIDI backend for gstreamer, I suspect those using timidity directly are not the common case.
<persia> The initscript currently uses log_end_msg 1 to report the issue.  I suppose I could detect the failure, and add a textual note to the postinst, which would be helpful, but still not break installs.
<persia> (so invoke-rc.d timidity start || echo timidity failed to start with error $? : please restart timidity or reboot to start the sequencer
<persia> sistpoty|work, Does that workaround seem complete to you, or am I missing something more?
<sistpoty|work> persia: looks good to me
<persia> sistpoty|work, Thanks for the confirmation.  I'll do it that way.
<sistpoty|work> np
<emh> persia: Magnus (author of xprintidle) has published a new version of xprintidle with my changes at http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~henoch/text/xprintidle.html. He relicensed it under GPL.
<persia> emh, Cool.  Saves the trick of dealing with the licenses.  Next step is to get Milan to confirm it's Lenny-critical, and get it into Debian.
<james_w> morgs: hey, you disable the import of abiword.Canvas, but still call it in the code?
<james_w> morgs: is that a codepath that can't be reached?
<james_w> I've got an issue that should be decided now, I've been putting it off in the hope that we would get a release
<james_w> clutter is at 0.8 in the archive, except for pyclutter
<persia> james_w, What depends on pyclutter?
<james_w> that's not had a release for 0.8, but SVN has been ported
<james_w> no rdepends
<persia> OK.  Why is it preferable to package it?
<james_w> After having a few people test SVN it works for some, and not for others
<james_w> so we have a choice of no package or one that only works for some
<persia> Personally, I think no package is better, especially at this point in the cycle.
<persia> Those very interested can grab SVN, or use the release once it happens.
<persia> I've heard a few people talking about using clutter more heavily for Jaunty, so I suspect it would be an early candidate for Jaunty inclusion, and that gives us time to debug it.
<james_w> yeah, the arguments would be having good clutter support, but it's not if it's partially broken, and being able to fix it for those it would be broken for
<persia> Mind you, I'm not on the release team, so it's just my opinion :)
<james_w> I'm leaning towards kicking it, but I've been trying to get us a package for a while
<james_w> unfortunately it doesn't get on at all well with my machine, otherwise I would have probably uploaded by now.
<persia> Can you wait three more weeks?
<james_w> oh, I'm not even going to use it :-)
<persia> OK.  Then I *really* don't see the point :)
<james_w> I just got involved in the bug and there have been a couple of people trying to make it happen, and I want to lend them a hand if I can
<persia> If there aren't any rdepends, and it doesn't work for some people, I just don't see any strong argument in favour.  What's the benefit?
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<emh> persia: I reported it to Debian using reportbug and deleted the ubuntu stuff that the ubuntu version of reportbug put into the report.
<persia> emh, Cool.  That there was a new version, and the problems it solved?
<emh> persia: http://lart.no/lpaste/gcady/raw
<emh> and yes
<persia> emh, Is this the bug that makes the screen keep waking up every time it thinks it's about to fall asleep?
<emh> No, I don't think so. The screen goes to sleep, it just resets the screen saver idle time while it's at it.
<persia> emh, Ah.  OK.  I heard a couple users complain about a bug that woke up the screen when it was supposed to DPMS off, but I guess that's different then.
<james_w> Riddell: decision made on bug 267478, thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267478 in pyclutter "Please remove pyclutter from Intrepid archive" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267478
<iulian> Hi
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Any motu-release member for a second ack on Bug #242572?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "[Synch request] Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<james_w> fabrice_sp: hey, did you get a second ACK?
<fabrice_sp> Hey james_w: Not yet. I got one from dktrkranz, but I still miss one.
<fabrice_sp> That's why I'm asking for one here :-)
<james_w> fabrice_sp: please don't set the bug to "Confirmed" until you do, that's how the release team determine whether it has the exception
<james_w> doing so would probably mean you would never get the second ACK
<james_w> hey tdomhan
<fabrice_sp> james_w: ok. I thought it has to be confirmed to get attention
<fabrice_sp> will put back new
<rainct> heya
<james_w> ogra: bug 283355
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283355 in window-picker-applet "Updates to UNR packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283355
<james_w> ogra: I've got them all ready, just double checking I'm correct I've got your ACK as -mobile delegate
<persia> ogra, And to prove people use them with ubuntu-mobile: http://gihyo.jp/admin/serial/01/ubuntu-recipe/0037?page=2
<ogra> james_w, acked :)
<james_w> ogra: thanks
<ogra> persia, sweet
<ogra> though i directly see the bug :)
<james_w> I'll build an image once they are all in the archive to test them, I've reported the one remaining bug that I know about.
<slytherin> superm1: any idea where does bluez-gnome store preferences?
<superm1> slytherin, /var/lib/bluetooth i want to say
<superm1> well
<slytherin> superm1: even the use specific preferences?
<superm1> slytherin, ah those, i'm not too sure
<superm1> slytherin, poke around the code and see if it's using gconf / what not
<rainct> Nobody says hello? I'm not going to complain about Intrepid today ;P
<slytherin> superm1: The issue I just discovered when I tried testing with another dongle is that the applet icon is not present when I switched the dongle. The default value to for the display preference is 'never display'
<superm1> slytherin, that's really bzr
<slytherin> superm1: checking code.
<slytherin> superm1: the gconf schema says icon policy is 'present'. I suspect the value is not getting read when the applet is started first time for a particular dongle.
<en1gma> does 'auto-apt run ./configure' use the configure file in my sources or the configure file online in a repo?
<slytherin> en1gma: what is auto-apt?
<en1gma> i was reading it when i was finding info about checkinstall
<en1gma> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall
<slytherin> en1gma: By the way I don't understand what you mean by configure file in online repo.
<en1gma> the source repos have all the original files?
<slytherin> superm1: I will do more investigation in this regard later.
<en1gma> by issuing the "auto-apt run ./configure"
<en1gma> does it use the local ./configure file or the one on the repos
<superm1> slytherin, that's a weird problem though indeed
<slytherin> en1gma: I don't think auto-apt deals with sources anywhere.
<en1gma> idk ....it deals with a ./configure file and that file is located in sources
<en1gma> but is it local source or online ubuntu repor source
<slytherin> superm1: Yes. It is. And the bluetooth problems I was facing are hardware specific. Almost everything from pairing to file transfer is working with the current dongle.
<superm1> very good to hear
<DktrKranz> NCommander, GNAT transition started, now waiting for archive-admins to accept packages in -proposed.
 * NCommander didn't know -proposed needed approval
<NCommander> You learn something new every day :-)
 * NCommander hugs DktrKranz 
<slytherin> en1gma: the ubuntu source does not have configure hanging around. It is inside a archive. So no, I don't think auto-apt deals with it.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, anyway, gnatgps. Thats an interesting issue. It doesn't compile because python2.3 isn't in hardy
<en1gma> ahh thats a good point
<NCommander> DktrKranz, it violates the python packaging policy extremely badly
<en1gma> you prob right
<NCommander> DktrKranz, it could be fixed with a massive search and replace python2.3 -> python2.4, but that woudl still be violating policy ...
<slytherin> superm1: By the way I didn't know that when initiating pairing form PC it autogenerates a pin. I as usual tried entering pin 1234 form the phone and pairing failed. Then I checked the dialog in detail and that it asked me for a different pin. :-)
<superm1> slytherin, :)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, my guess is it isn't used largerly, and it's a leaf in GNAT transition, so I'll leave it alone unless someone *really* needs it
<laga_> gah, merging libfile-temp-perl into perl-modules was a great idea so late in the cycle. it breaks versioned depends on libfile-temp-perl :(
<NCommander> DktrKranz, doing a transition via SRU must be a first ;-)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, and yes, packages in -proposed needs manual approval from archive-admins (at least for now)
<NCommander> james_w, ping
<james_w> heh :-)
<james_w> asac: I'd appreciate your input on bug 262191 when you get a moment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262191 in network-manager-vpnc "NM 0.7 Regression from 0.6.6 using VPNC plugin" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262191
<DktrKranz> NCommander, when first packages will be available (see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=), I'll take care of the remaining ones (they need some extra-care, I noticed a couple of issues).
<NCommander> DktrKranz, its ADA, you really think it would have not exploded on the first try ;-)?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I'm a silly optimist ;)
<superm1> james_w, http://github.com/pieter/git-bzr/tree/master seems to be a method of adding a bzr repo as a git remote, is there any way (or plans of a method) for the other way around, to be able to push directly to a git repo from bzr?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, the archive admins are going to be wondering why there is so many ada packages pending ;-)
 * DktrKranz is more and more sure we will find lots of people to test packages affected
<james_w> superm1: yeah, git-bzr. It's not fully functional yet though
<DktrKranz> NCommander, they didn't see the others ;)
<NCommander> "the others"?
<DktrKranz> the remaining ones
<NCommander> Its a pity I'm not a MOTU, I could have uploaded for you ;-)
<superm1> james_w, ah, I just came across it because of an interesting situation that we have with the packaging for -fglrx.  the packaging is kept in git, but i'm the only one in the community right now with rights to touch it, so ideally i'd like to be able to create a bzr branch to keep it and then whenever things get changed in the bzr branch I can get a notification that it needs to get merged there too
<DktrKranz> I could upload them with strict bdepends (I'll do), but I'd like to see if they're OK before proceeding
<superm1> was hoping to keep the process fairly low touch if possible
<NCommander> DktrKranz, yeah, building them in a PPA is *****
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I got a load of build failure notices from your PPA ;-)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, it's just a matter of launching my massupload.sh script, not a pain ;)
<NCommander> Well, you had to assemble the debdiff first
<DktrKranz> huh? is it still linked?
<NCommander> ?
 * NCommander would have just did dupload ubuntu *.changes
<james_w> superm1: yeah, sorry, there's nothing that won't be a bit of a pain at the moment. Hopefully git-bzr will mature over the next few months.
<DktrKranz> NCommander, it's a wrapper I use when uploading multiple packages at the same time
<NCommander> Is that so git can access bzr repos, or the other way around O_O;
<NCommander> DktrKranz, and why doesn't dput *.changes work?
<superm1> james_w, great.  well i'll take another look around UDS time, and if not find a way to pick your brain for more ideas
<slytherin> persia: need some advice. packages related to grinvin were removed form Debian some time back because they were supposedly too broken. I wasn't sure if we also want to remove the packages hence didn't log a bug. Now they have been released with recent upstream version.
<DktrKranz> because I keep packages in subdirectories, I like order ;)
<james_w> superm1: yeah, it's something that I want to work well, so I'd be happy to start by talking through what you would like
<NCommander> james_w, anyway, the reason it didn't work is because you used asm/types.h
<sebner> james_w: arrrgh, I got caught by a flu. If I'm not dead tomorrow I'll really really really deal with the ssmtp stuff :\
<james_w> sebner: cool, thanks
<james_w> NCommander: at least on i386 that leads to the appropriate typedef
<james_w> NCommander: what should I have used?
<NCommander> james_w, linux/types.h
<NCommander> But you also put it in the wrong place
<NCommander> (netfilter.h was pulled in via a different .h file)
<sebner> DktrKranz: unlike Achmed I didn't have my flu shot :P
<NCommander> Actually
<NCommander> Forget what I said on asm/types
<NCommander> That would have worked, I'm just an idiot ;-)
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> It builds now from source
<NCommander> ;-)
<DktrKranz> sebner, did flu killed you?
<james_w> yeah, I see that linux/types.h might have been better now
<sebner> DktrKranz: not yet
<DktrKranz> sebner, AAAAAAAAAH!
<DktrKranz> sebner, and now?
<sebner> DktrKranz: now what?
<james_w> NCommander: if you have a fix would you send it to Debian as a heads up please? I wanted to wait until there was a confirmed fix, so I didn't do it when I uploaded
<NCommander> This package FTBFS on Debian?
<NCommander> link to Debian bug please
<james_w> no, but I imagine it's a .27 issue
<james_w> that's why I said as a heads up
<slangasek> ScottK, DktrKranz, TheMuso : ping, does https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-April/025259.html still apply for this release?
<james_w> NCommander: ah, or https://edge.launchpad.net/nufw/+bugs
<NCommander> james_w, care to upload the fix to Ubuntu?
<james_w> ah, what?
<james_w> NCommander: sure, debdiff me
<james_w> it points to that on it's homepage, but won't let you actually report bugs
<james_w> I guess opening an upstream task is sufficient
<NCommander> er, wait, what?
<NCommander> james_w, wait, your Debian upstream?
<james_w> nah
<james_w> I went to see where nufw's bug tracker is, and it points to launchpad, but doesn't actually let you report any bugs there
<james_w> but as we have one open in launchpad we can just do "Also affects" and add a task for nufw, and explain what the problem is
<DktrKranz> slangasek, I guess it's not changed since Hardy
<NCommander> james_w, http://pastebin.ca/1227122
<NCommander> james_w, Can you test build on i386 for me?
<james_w> sure, if you put it somewhere other than pastebin.ca
<NCommander> what's wrong with pastebin.ca?
<NCommander> just click the "Get Raw" link
<james_w> I have a philisophical differences with Canada
<NCommander> james_w, http://paste.ubuntu.com/57556/
<james_w> that, or there's a buggy router between me and pastebin.ca which means I can never access it
<slangasek> DktrKranz: ok, thanks
<NCommander> james_w, hows that?
<james_w> NCommander: http://paste.ubuntu.com/57557/
<NCommander> james_w, didn't you see my paste to paste.ubuntu.com?
<james_w> NCommander: ah, sorry, I thought you were asking how I couldn't get to pastebin.ca
<james_w> just wanted to prove I had nothing against Canadians as well :-)
<NCommander> james_w, yeah.
<NCommander> WOOO, I'm only a single upload away from 50 after this one
<james_w> fix a bug
 * NCommander looks for abug ;-)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, break something and then repair it, two uploads in a row ;)
 * NCommander should just wait for the GNAT SRU to finish
<NCommander> That's five or six uploads en-mass
<RAOF> directhex: Hey!  That _is_ a mono bug, and it's really just a reminder for when the upstream task is fixed :P
<james_w> NCommander: uploaded, thanks for your contribution.
<NCommander> \o\ /o/ |o| !<o>!
<NCommander> hrm, that last one is a TIE fighter
<ajmitch> disturbing
<RAOF> NCommander: And the middle ones are TIE fighters, too.  They're just banking!
 * NCommander does a barallel roll
<NCommander> ._. :| .-. |: ._.
<crimsun> Laney: bug 274124 is still reproducible for you on current 8.10, correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274124 in pulseaudio "Sound no longer working after kernel upgrade to 2.6.27-4" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274124
<crimsun> gah, awful summary
<LaserJock> any quilt people around?
<LaserJock> I can't figure out how to get quilt to add a new file
<RAOF> LaserJock: By "add a new file", what do you mean?  Quilt is wierd :)
<james_w> LaserJock: "quilt edit file"?
<LaserJock> sorry
 * RAOF thought it was "quilt add file"
<LaserJock> I mean I'm adding a new file
<LaserJock> it doesn't seem to like it
<LaserJock> I can create a patch, but it assumes I have an empty file
<RAOF> Oh.  Adding a file which previously didn't exist in a patch.
<LaserJock> yes, exactly
<LaserJock> so when I quilt pop -a I'm left with an empty file
<RAOF> Maybe you need to "quilt add file_i'm_about_to_create" first?
 * RAOF is hardly a quilt expert.
<RAOF> Heh.  Alternatively, you could just make a patch, and then "quilt import"
<LaserJock> I did do the quilt add first
<RAOF> :(
<LaserJock> and that did give me a good looking patch
<LaserJock> but when I build the package it says that it didn't cleanly unpatch
<RAOF> Ah.  Because you can't delete a file in a patch.
<RAOF> Oh.  That's somewhat awkward.
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/57615/ <- thoughts on whether that is bugfix only?
<LaserJock> oh wait, I got it
<crimsun> james_w: no, it's not, but the addition of new features don't seem to break anything existing.
<crimsun> doesn't seem, rather
<crimsun> at least it doesn't seem to explode locally
<james_w> ok, thanks
<Riddell> cody-somerville, jdong, TheMuso, \sh: motu-sru love still needed on bug 268260
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268260 in libxmlada2 "GNAT 4.2 Transition Tracking Bug" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268260
<jdong> Riddell: ack sorry, preparing for midterms today; I took a quick look in the morning; what exactly needs to be done?
<Riddell> jdong: someone from motu-sru needs to say it's ok to accept those patches
<james_w> how bad would it be to upload a version as -1ubuntu1 when the package isn't in Debian (the whole package isn't, not just the upstream version).
<james_w> It's just to provide an upgrade path from a PPA, so it's not crucial
<TheMuso> Riddell: I am no longer in MOTU SRU.
<jdong> Riddell: oh ok. I thought Luca was SRU so I was confused. let me take a look
<ajmitch> james_w: get the package into debian ASAP? :)
<Riddell> TheMuso: launchpad says you are https://edge.launchpad.net/~motu-sru/+members
<james_w> ajmitch: or that, yes :-)
<TheMuso> Riddell: heh woops I forgot to remove myself.
<Riddell> jdong: I still need someone acting in motu-sru capacity to say it's approved
<jdong> Riddell: ok, they all look good to me. comment added.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-15
<Laney> crimsun: Yes - re: that sound bug
<Laney> Unless there's been an update in the last day
<Niike|home> newbie question, what language are mostly used when programming in Ubuntu?
<directhex> purely for ubuntu? python is the language of choice
<Niike|home> well.. I guess you can use all different languages, but C# is the wrong aproach since its kind of Microsoft's development language right?
<directhex> i wouldn't say that
<RAOF> Heh.  Wrong person, there :)
<directhex> given windows is mostly written in C or C++
 * ajmitch wouldn't say that to someone who looks after mono packages :)
<directhex> C# is an international standard
<directhex> ajmitch, i'm even in Uploaders now
<Niike|home> ah ok ...
<ajmitch> directhex: well done
<RAOF> The mono stack is a nice development environment, even if the gtk# bindings aren't thread-safe (damn them all the way to Hades!)
<directhex> RAOF, neither is GTK+ generally!
 * ajmitch appears to not be in pkg-mono or pkg-cli-*
<RAOF> directhex: That's no excuse!  The Java bindings are thread-safe!
<directhex> RAOF, by wrapping all the calls into the mainloop?
<RAOF> I believe by setting gtk_threads_enter/leave to use a Java-managed recursive lock, and just aquiring that lock for all calls.
<directhex> ajmitch, are you actively working on any pkg-mono or pkg-cli-* package? i know the svn ACLs get cleaned up periodically
<ajmitch> directhex: no, not at the moment
<ajmitch> though I ought to get back into it
<ajmitch> I'm sure meebey would be overjoyed to see me back...
<directhex> warning: irc lacks the <sarcasm> tags used by more advanced protocols
<directhex> assuming that's sarcasm. I CAN'T TELL!
<Niike|home> directhex: but since I have recently started with a C# programming class, I would like to get my programming skills working for both operating systems, developement for Ubuntu (or linux) would still be used mainly with python?
<directhex> Niike|home, well, there are major desktop apps for linux written with c#
<RAOF> Niike|home: You can use whatever language you like; there are plenty of C# apps to contribute to.
<directhex> Niike|home, ubuntu ships 2 of them in the default install
<Niike|home> ok! instead of .exe apps it uses? :S
<directhex> Niike|home, the same
<ajmitch> the .exe suffux is still there, just hidden by wrappers :)
<directhex> Niike|home, mono is a CLI framework, just like Microsoft.NET. it uses the same file types and extensions
<directhex> Niike|home, i.e. a well-written CIL app compiled on linux will run on windows or mac, and vice versa
<Niike|home> aah ok! made it somewhat easier to understand the difference! :)
<Niike|home> so a CLI written app would hence be more powerfull than one written purely for .NET? Or can linux, mac etc use .NET apps just as good as Windows?
<directhex> a picture says a thousand words, right?
<Niike|home> hrmm.. yea!?
 * ajmitch thinks directhex is probably digging up a diagram to explain it
<RAOF> Niike|home: .NET is an implementation of the CLI, but it also has a bunch of Windows-specific frameworks available.  If you don't use the windows-specific stuff, a .NET app is essentially indistinguishable from a Mono app.
<directhex> http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/osctool3-gtk-01.png is the app i've been working on for a few years for my employers. it's 100% C#, written on amd64 ubuntu, using GTK# for the GUI, and Mono.Addins for the plugin architecture, plus MonoCurses for the text mode
<ajmitch> as a side note, many of those windows-specific bits can be used with mono as well, like System.Windows.Forms
<directhex> http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/osctool3-win32-01.png is the exact same app (i.e. the same .exe and .dll files copied and pasted) running on 32-bit vista, using Microsoft.NET. it uses the same technologies - GTK#, Mono.Addins
<ajmitch> but others call into the win32 API still
<directhex> http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/osctool3-macos-01.png is the exact same app on Mono 1.9.1 on Mac OS 10.5. same tech, same app
<ajmitch> directhex: oxford-specific stuff, is it?
<directhex> ajmitch, well, only because i didn't make most of the strings modifiable. if you run the same openldap schema as me, it should work fine
<ajmitch> looks like something that could possibly be useful
<Niike|home> aah nice explanation there directhex! :)
<directhex> for completeness, http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/osctool3-ncurses-04.png is what you get if you don't have the ability to run X apps (i.e. DISPLAY is null or empty), thanks to MonoCurses
<Niike|home> RAOF: aa thank you for your explanation too! :)
<directhex> i think i'm the second user of MonoCurses for a real-world app, and i had to modify the source to add new widgets to it :)
<ajmitch> doing rm -rf ~/Mail/ubuntu-bugs/ is taking a very, very long time
 * ajmitch thinks there were about 500k messages in there :)
<Niike|home> ok now I think ive learnt something very usefull today! :)
<Niike|home> im planning to setup HTPC computer and use any kind of unix. I choose Ubuntu-desktop and when im on it, want a NAS to be installed on it. to hold all my 100th HD movies. Would ubuntu be a wise choice?
<directhex> it would not be an unwise choice
<directhex> The Debian External Health System (a.k.a. DEHS) has found a new upstream version
<directhex>  of the package mono in the unstable distribution.
<directhex> The current package version is 1.9.1+dfsg-4 and latest by upstream is 2.0.
<directhex> thanks, DEHS. no shit!
<Niike|home> yea just confirming that. And until I get a hang of the whole unix architecture in compare with windows i'm thinking about VMware to use a virtual ubuntu installation.. that would work fine yes?
<directhex> on the understanding that performance would suck, and you couldn't do media things, yes
<Niike|home> damn, ok! so a dual boot is my only choice when using media? or buy that HTPC and try it from there?
 * ajmitch wonders if ironpython could be updated in sid
<directhex> your call. but media playback, fr'example, is unaccelerated inside vmware
<Niike|home> aa well.. ill look into it tomorrow. thanks for the help!
<directhex> ajmitch, oh, we missed that. ipy is not part of pkg-cli-apps, but it should be. i think it's on the TODO on the wiki
<ajmitch> directhex: yeah I know
 * ajmitch is in Uploaders for that still
<directhex> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/TODO
<ajmitch> I know, I was looking at that :)
<ajmitch> and wondering why things like pnet would still be on there
<directhex> seems you're ahead of me
<directhex> which is good, since it's gone 1am and i'm sleepy
<directhex> ajmitch, i have no idea who cares about pnet. it's not me!
<ajmitch> last upstream release was 18 months ago, it barely supports any C# 2.0 features, let alone a complete set of libraries for 1.0
<directhex> ah, pnet's gone in debian. you'd have to ask meebey if he wants it resurrected
<directhex> #debian-mono on oftc. anyway, BEDTIME
<StevenK> pnet has also been killed here, too
 * ajmitch doesn't see much point in maintaining it again unless it were to magically become useful
 * slangasek blinks at bug #1687
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1687 in nedit "NEdit doesn't work support UTF" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687
<slangasek> "A powerful, customizable Motif based text editor" -- that doesn't work with modern charsets and has to be shipped in multiverse?
<ajmitch> slangasek: yes, crimsun has been trawling through a  number of old bugs, it seems
<fabrice_sp> Hi. How do we deal with removal request? It needs a FFe? (for Bug #283348 and other broken kde3 packages)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283348 in kerry "[Package Removal Request] kerry - remove from Intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283348
<ScottK> It needs approval by a MOTU, but not an FFe.
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: For KDE3 stuff, ask in #kubuntu-devel
<StevenK> ScottK: While you're around, should wlassistant die too?
<ScottK> StevenK: Dunno.
<StevenK> ScottK: It's Depends on kicker
<StevenK> s/'s//
<ajmitch> kicker is fairly obsolete now, right?
<ScottK> I'd guess, but it's past 1:30 AM here and I'm doing $WORK financial reports so my brain is totally mush at the moment.
<ajmitch> poor chap
<ScottK> It has a KDE 4 version now.
<StevenK> Hm
 * StevenK digs for the wireless device
<ScottK> StevenK: Feel free to beat up on nixternal for KDE answers.  He's an hour behind me, so he should be fresh and ready to help.
<dholbach> good morning
<didrocks> morning
<nullie> Hi. I try to do sync request using requestsync tool, but it gets: The requested URL /changelogs/pool/main/p/python-rope/current/changelog.txt was not found on this server. error
<AnAnt> Hello, I found that usplash-theme-ubuntume needs to be rebuilt so that it would work on Intreipd
<AnAnt> what should I do ?
<RAOF> AnAnt: Make a new no-change-rebuild upload?
<AnAnt> RAOF: upload to revu ?
<AnAnt> RAOF: or file a bug & a debdiff ?
<RAOF> A bug, certainly.  A debdiff?  Maybe.
<RAOF> A rebuild definitely fixes it?
<AnAnt> how do I do this rebuild upload then ?
<RAOF> Well, you ask a MOTU :)
<RAOF> So, in what way is it broken, and how do I test that the rebuild fixes it?
<AnAnt> RAOF: well, I found that usplash-theme-ubuntu in their last changelog, said that they changed nothing, just rebuilt against new usplash
<AnAnt> RAOF: and that usplash-theme-ubuntume does not work, if I type: sudo usplash, I get an error message that there is no usable usplash (that's when the usplash-artwork.so alternative points to the ubuntume usplash theme)
<RAOF> AnAnt: And just a rebulid makes that work?
<AnAnt> RAOF: yeah, I just rebuilt on my machine now, and it worked
<AnAnt> RAOF: it's because the THEME_VERSION got bumped in the new usplash
<RAOF> OK.  So, file a bug with that information, and someone whose internet isn't capped at 64kbit/sec will test & upload a no-change rebuild.
<AnAnt> new gnash is cool
<RAOF> So cool it actually works?
<AnAnt> youtube works on it !
<AnAnt> erm
<AnAnt> wait, that wasn't gnash
<RAOF> Swfdec?
<AnAnt> no, I it was flashplugin-nonfree, I forgot to update the alternatives !
<AnAnt> now testing gnash
<jml> AnAnt: I'm using gnash to watch youtube
<dholbach> gnash doesn't do the "maximise the window" thing for me
<jml> AnAnt: it works at least as well as proprietary flash did.
<dholbach> other than that it's looking great
<hagabaka> what about seeking?
<dholbach> works
<dholbach> on amd64
<AnAnt> can you open an flv with standalone gnash ?
<AnAnt> ?
<AnAnt> well, it doesn't work AT ALL here with youtube !
<nullie> Look. Which key is used to sing binary archives in my ppa?
<nullie> sign
<AnAnt> nullie: A minor
<nullie> minor?
<AnAnt> nullie: key & sing
<nullie> :)
<morgs> james_w: morning! Yes, I disabled the abiword import, and made all the code that uses it a dead codepath so it's a minimal patch. If you prefer I can make the dead code commented out, but I have tested it.
<james_w> morgs: no, that's fine, thanks, just making sure.
<morgs> cool
<jsgotangco> morgs: congrats on 8.2.0!
<morgs> jsgotangco: thanks, I'm happy to take credit even though I only did a little bit of it :)
<james_w> morgs: uploaded, thank you
<morgs> james_w: thanks!
<james_w> nellery: hey, are you around?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<james_w> hey sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi james_w
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<slavik> someone messed up the xserver-common package dependency.
<sebner> sistpoty|work: nothing with 3 months of vacation. I'll start working again for one month :\
<sistpoty|work> oh
<slavik> xephyr-xnest doesn't want to upgrade because xserver-common is uninstallable, xserver-xorg-core conflicts and replaces xserver-common
<sebner> sistpoty|work: and later to the military. *sarcasm* WUHU */sarcasm* ^^
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> james_w: there's a "later" target? cool
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> not sure how long it's been around
<emgent> hello
<sistpoty|work> bug #242572 would need a sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "[Sync request] Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<morgs> james_w: I'm considering filing a removal request for sugar-write-activity, since it is uninstallable (and it was in hardy, too) - see bug 219358
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219358 in sugar-write-activity "Package has unresolved dependancies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219358
<james_w> morgs: python-abiword is a separate source that we don't have, it's not in the abiword package or anything?
<james_w> (yeah, should have asked this for the last one)
<morgs> james_w: abiword is not packaged modularly in Ubuntu - it is in a PPA (https://launchpad.net/~sugarteam/+archive) but not in intrepid itself.
<morgs> So we would need abiword to be built with libabiword and pyabiword
<james_w> morgs: yeah, if we don't have python-abiword and the python interface isn't in any other packages then kick it
<james_w> morgs: removal requested, thanks
<stefanlsd> siretart: are you around?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<siretart> stefanlsd: yes
<siretart> hey bddebian, hi sistpoty|work!
<sistpoty|work> hi siretart
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<stefanlsd> siretart: hi. I wonder if you can help me. Im trying to do some work in the hardy branch of mplayer - but it says its not pushed yet - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/mplayer
<siretart> stefanlsd: hm. I'd assume that the guys in #launchpad can help you better than me here
<siretart> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu-hardy looks broken
<stefanlsd> siretart: ok. thanks. i will try them. I just cant test the pushing.
<stefanlsd> siretart: would it be possible to delete it and recreate it?
<siretart> stefanlsd: launchpad offers renaming branches
<siretart> I haven't found the 'delete' button yet
<stefanlsd> siretart: aah. its def there. if you click on the branch, next to the name is a little  'no entry sign'
<stefanlsd> siretart: i can see it on my own branches (maybe you must be registered owner though)
<stefanlsd> maybe superm1 can help with that though... ^
<superm1> stefanlsd, with what?
<stefanlsd> superm1: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu-hardy
<superm1> hum that looks pretty broke.
<stefanlsd> superm1: i want to do a security fix into hardy branch - and wanted to use lp bzr of it.  Dont suppose you can delete branch repush hardy into it
<superm1> stefanlsd, i'm not sure i still have the branch locally
<superm1> i'd be glad to delete it though :)
<stefanlsd> superm1: hehe.  maybe we just need to extract source from mplayer hardy and push it?
<superm1> that would be rather unfortunate if that is what we had to do
<superm1> lose the history and such
<stefanlsd> superm1: mm. there is no history at the moment though? maybe take the gutsy code and step it back to hardy equiv?
<superm1> stefanlsd, you know wgrant may have the branch to repush
<superm1> i'm not sure what wuld have happened to the hardy branch though
<superm1> stefanlsd, if wgrant doesn't however, then that's probably a solution
<stefanlsd> superm1: cool. can you delete it for now, i'll ask wgrant if he has the source to push it again.
<superm1> sure
<stefanlsd> superm1: thanks for the help!
<superm1> no problem stefanlsd .  sorry, wish I could be more helpful. :)
<\sh> does someone work on flashplayer-nonfree 10 final?
<directhex> #ubuntu-mozillateam
<apachelogger> dholbach: do you know of some way to close all the tasks of bug 283543 at once?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283543 in knetload "archive removal request: wlassistant is uninstallable due to kicker being dropped" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283543
<dholbach> apachelogger: Riddell just asked the same on #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> and I said "hang on" :)
<apachelogger> ^_^
<rainct> wow, my screen doesn't flickr anymore with gksudo :P
<ogra> rainct, we can fix that if you want :P
<rainct> ogra: no, but you could fix GNOME so that I can start it :)
<rainct> (*flicker)
<rainct> Guys... REVU has a "Import from PPA" feature now (based upon a branch NCommander did some time ago. and don't search for it, it's not visible in the UI yet, but it's on revu.ubuntuwire.com/import.py).
<crevette> hello there
<rainct> The text there currently says that non-reviewers can only import packages that have been succesfully build on i386, but this isn't implemented yet. Do you think we want that? :P
<rainct> hi crevette
<crevette> hello rainct
 * sistpoty|work decides to call it a day and go into the cine
<sistpoty|work> +ma
<sistpoty|work> cya
<fabrice_sp_> Hi. I get the second ack for FFe on Bug #242572. So I only need a motu now! james_w? :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "[Sync request] Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<james_w> I'm just looking
<james_w> you haven't merged the changelog correctly
<james_w> I can do that if there are no other problems
<fabrice_sp_> james_w: are you using the last debdiff? (wxsvg.debdiff)
<fabrice_sp_> It seems ok in the debdiff
<james_w> fabrice_sp_: yeah, but it doesn't merge the
<james_w> them
<james_w> you drop all the Ubuntu entries
<fabrice_sp_> james_w: ahhh, I know what happened: I began again from debian package....
<savvas0> um.. is there debian policy for adding/removing sections in .conf files? I want to add a section in access.conf and time.conf files that my program will handle
<james_w> access.conf and time.conf? What owns those?
<savvas0> linuxpam-modules
<savvas0> /etc/security/access.conf and /etc/security/time.conf
<savvas0> sorry,  libpam-modules :)
<james_w> they are conffiles of that package
<james_w> that means you are not allowed to modify them automatically from the package
<james_w> depending on what you want to do there may be a way to do it though
<james_w> fabrice_sp_: building while I go eat
<fabrice_sp_> ok
<fabrice_sp_> CU later
<savvas0> well, as it is, I'm using sed and grep to add to those conf files
<james_w> in your .postinst?
<savvas0> yes, .postinst and .postrm :)
<morgs> james_w: debdiff attached for bug 282883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282883 in sugar-web-activity "Browse activity does not start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282883
<james_w> morgs: I'll look a little later, thanks
<morgs> james_w: OK, np, thanks
<savvas0> the scripts post/pre inst/rm work pretty well actually, but I was wondering if there's an alternative or.. "cleaner" solution to this :)
<savvas0> the lintian is a great tool by the way, helped me solve most of my packaging glitches hehe
<MTeck> Is there any way to get the aluminum ubuntu stickers anymore?
<MTeck> I remember buying them in the past and I lost them...
<lfaraone> james_w: ping
<slytherin> MTeck: see if you can find any here - https://shop.canonical.com/
<james_w> hey lfaraone
<MTeck> slytherin: nope :(
<lfaraone> james_w: morgs fixed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar-web-activity/+bug/282883 , debdiff attached.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282883 in sugar-web-activity "Browse activity does not start" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<james_w> lfaraone: yes, I'm subscribed and he already pointed it out, thanks
<james_w> I don't need three notifications for every fix
<slytherin> geser: Can you please take care of bug 267816 and eventually bug 268538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267816 in cglib2.1 "Please move to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268538 in libxstream-java "Please move package to universe" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268538
<lfaraone> james_w: heh, sorry.
<MTeck> slytherin: any other ideas where to get one. I know I bought the last set and buying more doesn't bother me
<slytherin> MTeck: No idea. Sorry.
<lfaraone> james_w: woult it be possible to get python-abiword in intrepid by running it through the new package process, or as a patch to the existign abiword package?  ( per bug 219358)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219358 in sugar-write-activity "Please remove sugar-write-activity from Intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219358
<james_w> lfaraone: it is possible yes, I don't know what's involved
<james_w> it's also very very late for that sort of thing
<lfaraone> james_w: sorry about this...
<james_w> lfaraone: is there any sort of changelog or news file for this hulahop update?
<lfaraone> james_w: we already have it working in a PPA. (abiword)
 * lfaraone looks
<lfaraone> habtool: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/hulahop;a=blob;f=NEWS;h=0c66f17035d5fb47241032e93e59b413aa6d3937;hb=34d5cf579710dc9187e713d0696fd168005c512d
<lfaraone> * james_w
<fabrice_sp> james_w: thanks  for wxsvg sync request!
<lfaraone> james_w: (I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for)
<james_w> lfaraone: I want to know what's in this new upstream release that I've been asked to upload
<fabrice_sp> How is it possible that a package fails but if I remove stripping in debian/rules, to have bdebug info, it works?!
<fabrice_sp> (for Bug #283762)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283762 in openmovieeditor "Does not recognize unstripped video packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283762
<fabrice_sp> I'm getting a coredump with the stripped version of openmovieeditor
<lfaraone> james_w: well, it's in the NEWS file that I linked to you.
<james_w> lfaraone: no, that's way out of date
<james_w> lfaraone: I dug through git though
<lfaraone> james_w: ah.  (uh, that link is from 9/11/08, and is the latest release... 0.4.6)
<lfaraone> james_w: (nvm)
<james_w> lfaraone: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/hulahop;a=history;f=NEWS;h=0c66f17035d5fb47241032e93e59b413aa6d3937;hb=HEAD
<james_w> the file hasn't been edited for a year
<lfaraone> james_w: good point. :)
<james_w> lfaraone: where do I download tarballs from? I need the 0.4.6 tarball
 * lfaraone greps...
<lfaraone> james_w: http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/hulahop/hulahop-0.4.6.tar.bz2
<james_w> thanks
<geser> slytherin: can try to take care of those bug (I'm rather busy currently)
<geser> slytherin: the bug for cglib2.1 looks it needs to be only thrown at an archive admin. Or do I miss something?
<slytherin> geser: no, you are right
<slytherin> geser: I just thought I should go through the usual confirmation by motu process.
<geser> slytherin: you are pointing out an archive glitch which doesn't need IMHO an ACK from a motu (the source got already moved to universe but not the binaries yet)
<slytherin> geser: Ok. So I will simply mark it confirmed and bug someone on #ubuntu-devel
<geser> slytherin: I will add a new comment for libxstream-java once cglib2.1 gets resolved
<slytherin> Ok.
<geser> slytherin: yes
<geser> slytherin: perhaps you have luck and my first ACK for libxstream-java gets still accepted
<slytherin> hmm
<savvas0> I have sort of a weird problem with a .desktop file, "dpkg -L timekpr" shows the file /usr/share/applications/timekpr.desktop is included, but it's not actually installed there: "ls: cannot access /usr/share/applications/timekpr.desktop: No such file or directory"
<savvas0> I'm using "%:(new line)dh $@" in the rules
<savvas0> ah wait lol, my bad, I had it remove some files and i included it by accident :)
<DktrKranz> stefanlsd, re bug 275122, I think you should apply your changes directly to your security fixes since -security uploads don't include {-updates,-proposed} fixes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275122 in wordnet "[SRU] wordnet 1:3.0-2 in Gutsy was not built with debian/patches applied as intended." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275122
<jdstrand> DktrKranz, stefanlsd: actually, -security updates pull from -updates
<DktrKranz> jdstrand, -security updates are built on top of -updates?
<jdstrand> so if there is a package in -security, and a newer one in -updates, the next -security update will use the -updates one
<DktrKranz> ah, I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the update
<jdstrand> DktrKranz: it is an imperfect system, but it solves more problems than it causes, and the justification is that if it went into -updates, it is proven
<jdstrand> I should also mention that if there is a -proposed package when a -security update comes out, it's corresponding bug should get a comment saying it needs to be respun with the added -security update fixes
<DktrKranz> it should be re-merged, clear
<DktrKranz> jdstrand, would you accept such change included in a -security upload, or do you prefer to process it as a SRU?
<jdstrand> DktrKranz: without knowing the specifics, -security is not a way around SRU (ie we don't put non-security fixes into a -security update)
<jdstrand> DktrKranz: so if there is SRU material and -security material, either it all goes into -proposed for SRU, or there are two packages created
<jdstrand> one for -security (with security fixes only), and one to -proposed for SRU (that has it all)
<jdstrand> which will eventually supercede -security assuming all goes well
<ma10> omg, upstream just decided to convert ALL their sources to CRLF line terminators. This is a VCS nightmare, considering we have heavy source modifications.. What do I do? Keep the CRLFs or produce a .orig tarball that is not "orig" at all, with everything converted back to unix?
<crimsun> I'd keep them.  What a pain.
<ma10> crimsun: yep, bazaar is giving me tons of nonsense conflicts..
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-16
<directhex> general packaging question: if, for the sake of argument, you have a source package which produces multiple binaries, and the install list for one of those binaries is empty, is that package just skipped entirely?
<directhex> i.e. if i put foo.so and bar.so into different binary packages, but foo.so only builds on one arch, is that a problem?
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: No and Yes.
<sevenseeker> question about dpatch, how do I convert a normal patch to a dpatch?  I am trying dpatch-edit-patch new.dpatch old.dpatch per instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Patch%20Systems, but no new.dpatch is created
<azeem> sevenseeker: you can just add the usual boilerplate (at least "@DPATCH@" I think) and add it to debian/patches/00list
<azeem> I think dpatch expect -p1 style diffs
<sevenseeker> ok, so if I have a normal style patch it will still work, just have to make sure it is p1 directory compliant?
<azeem> and have the boilerplat
<azeem> e
<sevenseeker> where do I add the @DPATCH@ at?
<azeem> at the top
<azeem> just look at some other dpatch using package
<sevenseeker> I see
<sevenseeker> ok, I am still hunting around :)
<sevenseeker> thanks guys, one other question
<sevenseeker> does dpatch also create new dpatches just like diff does?
<azeem> I don't understand the question
<sevenseeker> if I want to create a new dpatch between two files or directories, how do I go about doing that?
<sevenseeker> just manually edit a normal patch as with this one already in existence?
<azeem> a dpatch is just a regular diff/patch with @DPATCH@ on top
<sevenseeker> heh, ok... I thought it might potentially have more
<sevenseeker> thanks again, keep up the good work guys
<NCommander> hey azeem
<azeem> heya
<NCommander> how goes it azeem
<azeem> tiiired
<azeem> just back from the pub
<azeem> if I keep on going, I can just as well watch the debate in a couple of hours I guess :-/
<azeem> you?
<NCommander> azeem, run down FTBFS, trying to force lenny out the door
<tonyyarusso> Anyone around to give a little insight on some bugs?  There's been a significant uptick in bugs reported for kompozer in Intrepid, but the kompozer package itself hasn't changed at all, so it seems likely to be related to a dependency.
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: or more people using it.  but yes, possibly a dependancy
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Fair point, but it's a Mozilla-related app that's based on what is now a VERY old base compared to Firefox and kin, so things are probably flat out missing.
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Dunno if it's related, but the Firefox packages (with Firefox 2.0) was recently removed from Intrepid entirely.
<StevenK> And their locales and other bits
<tonyyarusso> hmm
<StevenK> Blah.
<StevenK> ichthux-desktop still wants kio-sword
<tonyyarusso> Well, here's what I have listed in the Depends:  libatk1.0-0, libc6, libcairo2, libfontconfig1, libgcc1, libglib2.0-0, libgtk2.0-0, libidl0, libpango1.0-0, libstdc++6, libx11-6, libxft2, libxt6, zlib1g
<tonyyarusso> The application apparently will build and run, but certain actions cause it to segfault.
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: Get a backtrace from it?
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: I believe someone made one - lemme look quick.
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: there are a couple of files on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kompozer/+bug/283400, but I'm not sure if they're what you're looking for.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283400 in kompozer "kompozer-bin crashes frequently when displaying menus (dup-of: 263441)" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263441 in kompozer "kompozer crashes in intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: Do those look right or should I try to make one myself?
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: The first one doesn't
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: Install debug libraries and try and get a stack trace
<tonyyarusso> okeydoke
<sevenseeker> howdy, I am updating a library package that went from a lib.so.6 to lib-7.so, how do I specify the shlibs file line for that library?  Use a 0 for the 'version' field?
<_Andrew> Could anyone look at this and tell me why my dependencies can't be resolved? http://pastebin.com/d450e8afb
<RAOF> It's been some time since I used pbuilder, but that output looks normal so far - where's the rest?
<_Andrew> http://pastebin.com/d503b6f03
<_Andrew> It says Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies
<RAOF> It does indeed.  That's fairly strange.
<tonyyarusso> Um, so I'm trying to collect a backtrace of something, but it's not actually quitting completely.
<RAOF> Run it in gdb?
<tonyyarusso> There's a segfault, which shows up in the terminal with gdb, but the process hangs and I end up having to use 'kill' to get things done.
<wgrant> Or attach to it in gdb.
<wgrant> Hmm, what is it?
<tonyyarusso> I attached while it was running, yes.
<tonyyarusso> It's kompozer.
<wgrant> What does bt say?
<wgrant> Could be its signal handler dieing, thus giving nice recursion.
<tonyyarusso> erm, could you be more specific please?
<wgrant> Type 'bt' in gdb.
<StevenK> wgrant: If Kompozer has a SEGV handler, they're even more on crack that I thought
<wgrant> StevenK: It has a K and a z in its name. What do you expect?
<wgrant> SDL does, so why not Kompozer?
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> wgrant: SDL is a framework, though
<wgrant> True.
<RAOF> There's some KDE people in here, I'm sure.  Where in the name of all that is holy can I add a program to my session under 3.5?  (Hint: Control Centre->Session Manager is a lie).
<tonyyarusso> wgrant: working on getting to that point again - one sec
<_Andrew> Would this be because I have a package that doesn't exist? Depends on package1 or unknown package ?
<_Andrew> or would it just ignore the unknown package?
<RAOF> _Andrew: No, it'd die in the way you've seen if it was depending on a non-existent package.  But libboost-regex-dev _isn't_ a virtual package, at least in Intrepid.
<tonyyarusso> wgrant: http://pastebin.com/m50786a4
<_Andrew> This is for hardy
<_Andrew> sorry I should have mentioned that
<wgrant> Oh. It looks Mozillary. I'm running away no.
<wgrant> s/no/now/
<tonyyarusso> It is a Mozilla stepchild, yes.
<tonyyarusso> I get that reaction a lot.......
<NCommander> hey wgrant
<RAOF> _Andrew: So, it would seem likely that something's messed up in your pbuilder setup.  Have you run 'pbuilder update' recently?
<_Andrew> same result
<RAOF> Care to pastbin the output of "pbuilder update"?
<fabrice_sp> _Andrew: you have a warning that could explain your problem: W: /home/andrew/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<fabrice_sp> Could you create that file with COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse" in it
<fabrice_sp> ?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: That warning isn't a problem.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: I know that it isn't a problem, but I had a similar dependency problem, and it solved it. In this case, the missing lib are in main, so it shouldn't help. You're right
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: No, I mean lack of a per user config file isn't a source of problems.  Not having a .pbuilderrc isn't wrong if the right options are set elsewhere
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: sure. In this case, as it seems that it's his first use of pbuilder, I assumed that he could miss that other options, so creating .pbuilderrc with the right options could have helped
<_Andrew> RAOF: Well, I can't figure out why this is, I didn't change any of the dependencies from the package.
<_Andrew> I don't think it's pbuilder..
<_Andrew> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libcegui-mk2-1
<_Andrew> I took that package
<_Andrew> ah I think I know
<_Andrew> no universe packages
<_Andrew> yep that it, hehe woops..
<_Andrew> thanks guys
<dholbach> good morning
<NCommander> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hi NCommander
<NCommander> how goes it dholbach
<dholbach> good good, how 'bout you?
<directhex> mornin'!
<didrocks> morning :)
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<NCommander> hey sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi NCommander
<NCommander> sistpoty|work, how goes it?
<sistpoty|work> NCommander: quite good
<NCommander> sistpoty|work, that's good. I'm working to improve REVU. We now have trustroot status
<NCommander> (or in other words, go try logging in on REVU and see the new message ;-))
<laga_> what's that? trustroot?
<NCommander> laga_, it means REVU can pull trusted information over openid such as email addresses
<sistpoty|work> NCommander: excellent!
<NCommander> laga_, go try logging in on REVU,a nd take a close look at the text
<NCommander> There is a message from canonical on it ;-)
<StevenK> sistpoty|work: So, why haskell-devscripts from *testing*, we sync from unstable?
<sistpoty|work> StevenK: because I haven't looked over the changes that are in between testing and unstable yet
<StevenK> sistpoty|work: I'm not sure that I can sync from testing
<sistpoty|work> hm...
<sistpoty|work> StevenK: give me a few minutes, to look at what changed, ok?
<james_w> StevenK: I've requested it before and it was done
<StevenK> james_w: Shh!
<StevenK> :-P
<james_w> :-)
<sistpoty|work> StevenK: haskell-devscripts 0.6.14 is likewise sane :)
<StevenK> sistpoty|work: Please comment on the bug
<sistpoty|work> StevenK: done
<directhex> hm. i need to refresh an autoreconf patch
<NCommander> directhex, have you made the necessary sacarifies?
<directhex> NCommander, i've decided to work on a different package and pretend this one doesn't exist :)
<NCommander> you gave up on mono ;-)?
<directhex> meebey is working on mono.
<directhex> i've done gluezilla, libgdiplus, and mono-basic
<directhex> http://monoport.com/37751
<directhex> thankfully, the 2.0 components i've done so far don't actually need 2.0 to build/install
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Feature Freeze:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Steady on: we're in FinalFreeze (aka ReleaseFreeze)! | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 3rd 12:00 UTC
<james_w> Hi all, does every upload now require motu-release ACK? There have been possibly conflicting statements
<persia> james_w, For hardy, we did it that way post-final-freeze.
<persia> james_w, Generally, my experience is that someone glances at the debdiff, and says "sure", assuming it's small and prevents an SRU.
<persia> (or otherwise does something critically good)
<james_w> oh yeah, I know it's a smooth process usually, I'm just wondering whether I should start bugging members of the release team yet
<persia> james_w, Note that I've not yet received the freeze mail, so you might have a couple hours left before that applies.
 * persia hopes so, as the timidity debdiff isn't exactly small
<james_w> I've got Steve's, and the archive is frozen
<DktrKranz> james_w: a IRC ACK is usually enough (they did so for hardy)
<persia> Ah.  I do have it, I just hadn't pulled my mail in an hour :(
<james_w> and the mail he pointed to from the hardy release suggests that everything now requires approval
<james_w> but the other day in response to my question about universe for "RC freeze this Thursday" Scott said
<james_w> "I don't think it means anything more than the other freeze have meant.  The
<james_w> weekend before the final freeze we'll want to start approving all uploads.
<james_w> Exactly when is dependent on when Ubuntu Release intends too final freeze."
<persia> Well, this is final freeze, so this would be the beginning of that weekend.
<directhex> yay for slipping a final mono release out of the door, then
<james_w> ok, I'll request exceptions, thanks
<ScottK> james_w: I don't think you need to do that.
<james_w> really?
<persia> ScottK, What's the policy for FinalFreeze then?
<wgrant> I faintly recall that it is usually the final week that is universe FinalFreeze, but it happens so rarely that I can't remember.
<directhex> next MOTU meeting is a fortnight ago? /topic needs a poke
<ScottK> persia: Final freeze would be the one before release, not before RC.  I'm rereading the referenced mail and will work on a clarification.
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Feature Freeze:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Steady on: we're in FinalFreeze (aka ReleaseFreeze)! | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 17th 20:00 UTC
<directhex> that's better :)
<persia> ScottK, The freeze applied today is the last freeze listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
<james_w> see, this is why I request a mail stating the policy from the release team
<persia> RC and FinalFreeze were at the same time in previous cycles : I think FinalFreeze got moved up one week this time.
<directhex> jaunty debianimportfreeze is ~xmas, then?
<ScottK> Right.  I'll work on clarification.
<persia> directhex, Somewhere around there.
<persia> directhex, Might even be as late as mid-january, depending.
<wgrant> persia: Ahh, that makes more sense.
<wgrant> I didn't think FinalFreeze was so long.
<persia> wgrant, Except it doesn't match wiki history.  It appears FinalFreeze was introduced in Hardy, and was a week before RC.
<persia> (10th April)
<wgrant> Hrmph.
<persia> Anyway, I still want to push bug #281276 and various timidity stuff.  Do I need explicit permission from someone?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281276 in linux-rt "Upgrade linux-rt to 2.6.27" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281276
<ScottK> sistpoty|work, TheMuso, DktrKranz, (and norsetto if you show up): I just sent mail to the MOTU list asking about when we start approving all uploads.  Please read and reply.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: replied, thanks
<DktrKranz> persia: for -rt stuff, linux-meta-rt needs some adjustments too (IIRC, there are packages pointing to *-restricted-extra which are not available).
<persia> DktrKranz, Yep, and something needs to depend on linux-firmware.  I believe Alessio is planning to finalise everything tonight (in light of KernelFreeze).
<DktrKranz> persia: good. I sponsored uploads of it, if needed just give a shout
<apachelogger> dholbach, persia, geser, nixternal, soren: what is the hold up on smarter's MOTU application?
<persia> DktrKranz, I'll probably upload it when it's done : I just want to make sure I've gotten any required approvals.  Kernel team did a preliminary recently, so I'm feeling pretty good about stability.  Regression risk is nil as the current -rt doesn't work at all.
<DktrKranz> persia: thanks (from a linux-rt user POV)
<dholbach> apachelogger: afaics only nixternal and I voted +1 up until now - I'll prod the others again to vote
<persia> apachelogger, Just the usual extreme slowness.  Waiting for three more MC comments.
<apachelogger> :) it's been > 12 days already https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#MOTU
<persia> apachelogger, Yeah.  The 12 days bit was something that nobody ever accepted as binding, unfortunately.
<apachelogger> Maybe you could discuss this some time? Either it should be accepted as binding or removed from that page.
<dholbach> *nod*
<wgrant> sistpoty|work: Launchpad provides no facility to freeze just some components.
<sistpoty|work> wgrant: ah thanks
<emgent> gmoin
<persia> motu-release: thanks for the speedy establishment of a clear guideline.
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Feature Freeze:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Steady on: we're in ReleaseFreeze, be extra careful when uploading | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 17th 20:00 UTC
<wgrant> Mightn't it be best to put that up the front?
<wgrant> And merge it with the FF item.
<persia> That should improve readability, at least
<wgrant> And perhaps drop MoM, as the topic is overly long now.
<sistpoty|work> or maybe even drop it altoghether?
 * sistpoty|work tries again
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Feature Freeze:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 17th 20:00 UTC
<sistpoty|work> hm...
<wgrant> As there are no further restrictions in this freeze, that should be OK.
<sistpoty|work> otherwise I'll leave it to whomever has better ideas :)
<siretart> @motu-release: OK to upload this vlc update: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58308/ to intrepid?
<siretart> according to sistpoty's mail at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-April/025259.html it is okay to ping you on irc
<sistpoty|work> siretart: we're not yet in final freeze for universe/multiverse, so only "normal" feature freeze applies
<persia> siretart, According to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-October/004849.html you don't have to ask until next week.
<sistpoty|work> hi siretart btw. ;)
<siretart> ah, then I misread steve's mail. great
<siretart> heyha sistpoty|work! hi persia
<persia> siretart, Hi :)  And no, you didn't misread the mail, the policy was just updated *very* recently.
<siretart> persia: ah, I see. perhaps a followup u-d-a would prevent further confusion?
<laga_> is there a wiki page which explains the policy? i don't want to read hundreds of different opinions on the ML, just the definite point
<persia> laga_, No.
<siretart> laga_: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<siretart> if something is missing there, I'd consider it as a bug
<siretart> (including the referenced wiki pages from there)
<laga_> by "explains", i meant a page that simply states the current policy
<persia> Hrm.  Good point.
<laga_> it shouldn't be an insider only thing :)
<persia> laga_, It's very much not an insider-only thing.  It's just that nobody has yet taken the recent decision from the mailing list and put it in the wiki.  If you did that, I'm sure your efforts would be appreciated.
<siretart> is bzr 1.7 going to hit intrepid?
<persia> It's unlikely at this point, unless someone gets special approval.  I haven't heard of a special bug.
<wgrant> I think it might be a good idea, particularly as bzr isn't well known for regressions, and LP seems to want bzr 1.7. And bzr 1.7 is fast.
<persia> james_w, Any guidance from upstream on which bzr for intrepid?
<wgrant> But it's in main, so it's not likely.
<james_w> they would probably like 1.7, but it was released after feature freeze and I didn't push it
<james_w> as long as we are >=1.6.1 it's a good start
<persia> james_w, OK.  Do we lose compatibility with LP the way we did in hardy with 1.3?
<james_w> not 1.6->1.7
<james_w> can't speak for the future though
<persia> Understood.  1.6 -> 1.7 is the interesting part, as it would fall into RC land.
<james_w> I'll probably be organising backports of some version to hardy, so I could do the same for Intrepid
<lfaraone> Hey, what's the feature-freeze for jaunty>?
<persia> lfaraone, Probably sometime in February, although the schedule is yet to be established.
<lfaraone> persia: crap.
<persia> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<lfaraone> persia: the project I'm packaing for releases march 3rd.
<persia> lfaraone, That aside, why?
<lfaraone> (sugar)
<persia> lfaraone, That might not be an issue if you plan well.  Make sure the snapshots make FeatureFreeze, and you should only have bugfix updates for the last few weeks.
<persia> (at least assuming sugar follows a features-first-then-bugfix development model)
<lfaraone> persia: yeah, RC comes out feb 13th, and betas are as early as dec 21
<persia> lfaraone, You might be a bit tight on RC, but going from RC to final is just a matter of helping the sugar team not add any features post RC.
<lfaraone> persia: Bad news: debian upstream maintainer is slow to package. Would we be able to send in updated versions bypassing debian if they will be too late?
<persia> lfaraone, Yes, although perhaps working with the Debian maintainer to collaborate would be better.
<lfaraone> persia: we'll send him our patches :)
<persia> lfaraone, Rather, you might want to engage in a deeper dialogue to collaborate.
<james_w> stefanlsd: hi, I still can''t install bugzilla
<james_w> stefanlsd: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58348/
<stefanlsd> james_w: is this within a pbuilber or chroot?
<james_w> yeah pbuilder chroot
<stefanlsd> james_w: i suspect it may be related to that. Did you get the debconf dialog stuff?
<james_w> stefanlsd: yeah
<james_w> I told it not to use dbconfig-common
<stefanlsd> wgrant: k. im getting the same thing. i will investigate
<stefanlsd> bleh
<stefanlsd> james_w: ^
<sistpoty|work> ScottK, DktrKranz, TheMuso: I'm just about to post a follow up about current universe/multiverse freeze handling: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58351/
 * ScottK looks
<sistpoty|work> any corrections? anything I missed?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I'd add a mention that the last opportunity for uploads will likely be sometime next weekend depending on when ubuntu-release decides to freeze the archive solid.
<ScottK> What's there is good.
<persia> Will we still be able to push RC stuff post solid-freeze for unseeded stuff, or are we not doing that this cycle?
 * DktrKranz looks too
<Hobbsee> persia: unlikely.
<Hobbsee> persia: (dak import)
<persia> sistpoty|work, Could you put a note in there about the universe flavours?  CD testing is happening next week, and it'd be unfortunate to break something.
<persia> Hobbsee, Hrm?
<Hobbsee> persia: the final, solid, no more packages accepted freeze?
<Hobbsee> no, you cant' push packages after that ( a couple of days before release)
<Hobbsee> prior to that, *shrug*
<persia> Hobbsee, This is new.  I've previously pushed until about 2 hours before a release.
<Hobbsee> persia: nwo that would be odd - usually the import is started way before that.
<Hobbsee> unless it got pushed to -updates or something
<persia> No, into the main repos.
<ScottK> persia: I think you are mis-remembering.
 * Hobbsee agreeswith ScottK - and suspects persia also doesn't mean the final release.
<persia> Or perhaps I have the time of release wrong.
<ScottK> The last two releases, the final uploads happened on Sunday or Monday before release.
<persia> I remember pushing the aolserver4 changes *very* late.
<ScottK> I remember that and it was before the archive froze, not release.
<persia> Yeah.  That was Monday night (~13:00 UTC).  I am misremembering.
<sistpoty|work> next try: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58354/
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: is final release scheduled directly at oct 30th? (not that I give wrong dates in the follow up *g*)
 * ScottK notes that http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ is working again and it's a good place for people to look for easy wins.
<AnAnt> if no one has responded to bugs that I reported few days ago, what should I do ?
<persia> AnAnt, Not much you can do, except wait.  If you think it's critical, and you have some ideas, you could see if anyone wants to talk about it.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: two/four, but otherwise good.
<james_w> sistpoty|work: bug 257110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257110 in libgems-ruby "libgems-ruby1.8 conflicts with rubygems1.8" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257110
<james_w> sistpoty|work: when you reverted, did you revert the previous upload in its entirety?
<AnAnt> is bug 281696 critical ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281696 in compiz "Compiz core dumps in Intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281696
<sistpoty|work> james_w: yep, that's what I did
<AnAnt> persia: I have that feeling that you didn't try sl-modem yet
<persia> AnAnt, It may be for certain hardware, or if it affects many users.  I'd ask about that in #ubuntu-desktop
<persia> And you'd be right about sl-modem :)  It's on my to-be-tested list, and about #5, but not quite at the top.
<AnAnt> ok
<james_w> ah, it's in NBS
<james_w> anybody want to teach me about how to clear a package from NBS?
<persia> sistpoty|work, Oh, and thanks for adding the note about the flavours.  Looks good to me.
<persia> james_w, I'd be happy to in ~20 minutes, if nobody else does.
<james_w> persia: great, I'll go get lunch in the mean time
<ScottK> james_w: The short version is figure out what's in the archive that depends on it and make the dependency go away.
<rainct> nhandler: man those encoding errors will get me mad :P
<sevenseeker> good morning everyone
<sevenseeker> I am updating a library package where the numbering of the so lib changed from something like foo.so.1 to foo-2.so, how can I use a foolib.shlibs in my package in that scheme?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Would you be able to help me with a library package update?  I have a new upstream that has a bunch of important fixes, but also bumped the minor version of the soname.  I'd like an expert review to see if it's potentially sensible to include in Intrepid.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: The package is libspf2.  You can grab the Intrepid on and I'll put the candidate somewhere you can get it.  One moment.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: http://kitterman.com/test/libspf2_1.2.8.dfsg-0ubuntu1.dsc
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: wow, that's a huge diff... might take a while to review
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I'm not asking for a full source review, but just the abi/api.  Is that huge?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: well, this also means to review the headers...
<ScottK> Ah.  Well from what I can tell the package was fairly broken before in a number of subtle ways.  It'd be good to get it in if we could.
<james_w> ah, I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NBS which is pretty good
<persia> james_w, That's the output of my last session :)  Let me know if you have questions.
<james_w> ah, cool
<james_w> nice work
<persia> Much of the credit goes to the wiki editors : it started as an IRC log.
<james_w> turns out this one is dead simple
<sevenseeker> persia: do you know how I would package a lib that is named foo-1.so with no version at the end for the libfoo.shlibs file?
<persia> sevenseeker, Only very vaguely : shlibs generally confuse me.  Generally, you want a versioned .so anyway, as otherwise things tend to break.
<broonie> sevenseeker: The versioning is pretty much essential.
<sevenseeker> persia: I am not that familiar with the build practices in regards to naming conventions, could I change the make file to generate one with a version?
<sevenseeker> for example, it is actually foo-1.5.11.so, could I rename to foo-1.5.so.11?
<james_w> persia: I assume the package in question being in "|" group in Depends won't keep it from being removed?
<broonie> sevenseeker: No.
<persia> james_w, In cases like that, sometimes it's helpful to give a hint to the archive-admins.  Once you clear an entire set, just mention in #ubuntu-devel that something can be NBS'd.
<sevenseeker> broonie: james_w: thank you for your feedback
<sevenseeker> looks like I should deal with the upstream guys or just ignore shlibs for now :( :( :(
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I have upstream on another IRC channel if you have questions.
<ScottK> The latter is a recipe for pain.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: nope, haven't got questions yet... still reading ;)
<ScottK> OK.
<broonie> sevenseeker: Yes, SONAME really needs to come from upstream since it should ideally be consistent over all distibutions, not just Ubuntu.
<sevenseeker> broonie: I am glad you confirmed that
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: though I've only read through the header diffs right now, I think there is a tiny ABI incompatibility
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: OK. Would you mail/paste me details?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: in one structure, an int is replaced with a size_t, which has a different storage size on amd64 at least (didn't know that myself yet )
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I think that's a bug fix.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: there: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58378/
<ScottK> Did you look in our patches to see if we'd patched it (I will if you didn't)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: even if size_t looks more correct, that still breaks the abi
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: nope, haven't done that yet
<ScottK> OK.  I'll look
<sistpoty|work> hm... I guess that's why I dislike patch systems *g*
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: there's also one in /src/include/spf_request.h
<sistpoty|work> change from int to size_t
<ScottK> The one you pastebinned we already patched, so it's no change
<ScottK> The second one we didn't patch, but should have.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: So I can check the source of the rdepends to see if they use that include, right?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> OK.  Is that the only one or are you still looking?
<ScottK> I'm guessing it didn't get patched because no one used it and no one complained, but I'll look.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: that *seems* to be the only one, but I haven't looked at symbols yet
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK waits with baited breath ...
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: most probably you'll want to grep any rdepends if they create/use a SPF_request_t somewhere
<bddebian> Heya folks
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: because that would then be 4 bytes too small on amd64 :(
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: Ideally, libspf2 would have an SONAME bump upstream-wise
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: but in the lack of it, I'm quite assured that rdepends will still build
<ScottK> It went from 2.0 to 2.1 IIRC
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: but the name of the binary package didn't change?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Because I didn't change it.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: ah, then I guess you'd better change it ;)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Yeah.  I'm not ready to upload it yet.  I'm trying to get this sorted to see if I can.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: then, I don't even need to look at symbols, since rdepends would still need a rebuild
<huats> nxvl: and porthose : hey
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Well I'd like to know if it's sane to think it'd work.  Also what should I name the new binary package?
<porthose> huats: hey
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: what lintian tells you to ;) (it should reflect the soname)
<sistpoty|work> the rules are somewhere in the library packaging guide, but lintian also knows the bits
<nxvl> huats: i'm ok with the date
<nxvl> :D
<huats> nxvl: porthose so it is now right ?
<huats> :)
<nxvl> huats: yes, channel?
<huats> -meeting :)
<porthose> huats: :)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: OK.  IIRC it didn't complain about the old name.
<csilk> is it ok to include three .desktop files in one package or should it be split into 3 packages?
<csilk> one for kubuntu, xubuntu and gnome..
<geser> csilk: why do you need different .desktop files?
<persia> csilk, Unless you're *really* careful with OnlyShowIn, you might want three.  Often you want to split the frontends anyway, so people don't have too many dependencies.
<csilk> persia, ok three packages it shall be
<csilk> this is the kind of info the wiki lacks
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: do you happen to have an amd64 binary of the new package? (then I wouldn't need to build it myself)
<persia> csilk, It's actually a fairly uncommon question.  I've seen it asked thrice since I've been following IRC.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: No.  All I have it i386
<sistpoty|work> ok
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: It's a quick build.
<csilk> persia,  yeah I usually wouldn't bother but upstream is insisting the packages works just as well in kubuntu and xubuntu as it will in gnome
<csilk> *work
<persia> csilk, Wait.  How do the .desktop files differ?
<_Andrew> Is there anyone around that can help me? My ppa won't compile because the build machines aren't installing the packages.
<cprov> _Andrew: hi, point me to the broken buildlog
<_Andrew> ok 1 sec
<csilk> persia, at the moment they don't as I haven't started on them
<_Andrew> did you want a url or package name?
<cprov> _Andrew: url
<_Andrew> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18603984/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.ogre_1.6.0~ppa2_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<cprov> _Andrew: nvidia-cg-toolkit is trying to download stuff.
<_Andrew> It fails when it trys to install nvidia-cg-toolkit .
<_Andrew> yeah, so how can I get it to install the toolkit
<csilk> persia,  the only difference in them should be icon and menu population related things
<persia> csilk, OK.  Unless you're generating different binaries for the front-ends, there's usually little point to adjusting the .desktop files.  If you are generating different binaries, then you need it, of course :)
<persia> Why a different icon?
<persia> And the menu population should be the same : they are all XDG-compliant environments.
<csilk> I assumed the way you would popualte a kde menu would differ from gnome?
<cprov> _Andrew: soyuz builds are explicit forbidden to access external sources. I don't know exactly what motu guys does to workaround this and the related legal issues involved.
<persia> csilk, It shouldn't.
<csilk> in that case I wouldnt need more than one .desktop file would I?
<persia> Unless you have different front-ends, or you need to pass some argument to hint at the interface, you shouldn't.
<csilk> No, the front end should be consistent accorss all the distros
<_Andrew> oh.. Then who can I talk to, to get it working?
<csilk> *across
<csilk> hmm, looks like I'll just be making the one .desktop file then, thanks alot persia, big help
<cprov> _Andrew: also 'libfreeimage-dev (>= 3.11.0)' dep can't be satisfied, since ubuntu has 3.10.0-1 and your ppa has 3.11.0~ppa2   (which is lower than 3.11.0)
<cprov> _Andrew: make it "(> 3.10.0-1)" , I guess.
<_Andrew> oh, it's lower?
<_Andrew> If 3.11.0~ppa2 is lower then 3.11.0 then what is it?
<_Andrew> hehe confusing..
<persia> csilk, That's part of why the question doesn't come up much :)
<persia> Is anyone currently looking at gtklookat ?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: ok, upstream didn't change the resulting soname (but should have)
<_Andrew> cprov: Thanks for help with the version thing, it's building on my machine now
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: however I guess there is little risk in bringing in the library if you also rebuild all rdepends (as the ABI change is pretty minimal)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: hence from a library packaging perspective, I see no reason not to go for it
<_Andrew> What can I do about the nvidia tool kit though? Do I need to file a bug or email someone ?
<_Andrew> It's important that cg support in Ogre isn't disabled
<cprov> _Andrew: it won't be considered a bug, it's a security feature instead.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: however now I've gotta run, cya
<_Andrew> yeah, sorry I did mean it was a bug, I mean how do I contact someone
<cprov> _Andrew: as I said, I don't know what's the right way to include non-free build dependencies.
<_Andrew> didn't**
<cprov> persia: do you know know ? ^
<persia> _Andrew, The problem is that the buildd admins don't want to manually build ogre every time, and the toolkit package needs access to the internet at build-time.
<persia> cprov, The right way depends on the non-freeness of the dependencies.  In this case, ogre does the best it can, but it just doesn't work with Soyuz.
<persia> cprov, If you want to fix it, it would mean allowing binary uploads by more than the current three people, but only in special cases.
<persia> Personally, I'm not sure it should be fixed.
<cprov> persia: yes, me neither.
<_Andrew> Can't you just host the nvidia files on the build machine and when it tries to download them it goes to the local machine rather then on the internet?
<_Andrew> I understand the problems with download stuff off the net
<persia> _Andrew, That would be redistribution, which nVidia prohibits.
<cprov> _Andrew: hosting non-free would incur in legal issues.
<geser> _Andrew: that's probably the problem and the reason why nvidia-cg-toolkit is an installer
<_Andrew> hehe yeah
<persia> _Andrew, I chased this for a couple weeks about a year ago, and the only solution was to have one of three people manually update it *every* upload, which none of them were willing to do.
<_Andrew> oh : /
<persia> cprov, Not at all.  Most non-free packages may be hosted legally, it's just a couple special cases (like nvidia-cg-toolkit) that have issues.
<_Andrew> What's so special about the cg-toolkit?
<cprov> persia: really ? I always take this very conservative approach about non-free sources. But, that's more ignorance than knowledge on my side.
<cprov> I will let you guys talk about it ... I need to grab some food.
<persia> cprov, There's several classes of stuff in multiverse.  Some is free, but has non-free dependencies.  Some is limited by use case (non-military and  non-commercial being the most common).
<persia> Some is restricted in use (e.g. "users of this software should send the author a postcard"), and some in modification (e.g. "This software must be shipped without distribution patches").
<_Andrew> So the problem with Nvidia toolkit is that you can not redistribute it?
<persia> Only a small minority is binary only, and of that, an even smaller minority has restrictions on redistribution (where we ship an installer).
<persia> _Andrew, precisely.  Get nVidia to allow redistribution, and we'll ship the binary for Jaunty, which means ogre-contrib can build.
<persia> (and fungaloids will stop being broken)
<_Andrew> Then why do they have a redistributable binaries page? Or are you saying that the binarys is different from the source package
<_Andrew> btw, I'm not trying to argue with you here, just trying to understand the situation
<persia> _Andrew, Did the licensing change?  Last I looked it didn't permit free redistribution.  If this changed, this becomes a soluable problem.
<_Andrew> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg-redistributable-binaries.html
<_Andrew> I can't find any information about the rights given to the downloader
<persia> Yeah.  That's the tricky part.  Given the current state of copyright, it needs to explicitly permit redistribution in some license text somewhere.
<_Andrew> All I see is a blanket legal document.. maybe it's in the toolkit..
<persia> _Andrew, I found the license.  It seems there is a "Linux Exception" (section 2.1.3) that would allow distribution of software designed exclusively for use on the Linux operating system, and there seems to be a way to download only the linux binaries.  With some hacking of nvidia-cg-toolkit, you may be able to make it work.
<_Andrew> The docs directory contains a file Cg_Redist_License.pdf providing a non-exclusive, world-
<_Andrew> wide, royalty free licensee for redistributing Cg with your applications. See this license for
<_Andrew> details.
<persia> _Andrew, It's in /usr/loca/Cg/docs/license.txt in the full Cg toolkit download.
<persia> That's even better.  I suspect that you've found a solution (and that the license has been changed since I last looked).  Try adjusting the packaging to be based on something redistributable, and if you can get that working, let the Debian maintainer know.  It's too late to try to fix this for intrepid, but it can surely be fixed for jaunty, and the best way to do that now is by fixing it in Debian.
<_Andrew> Since no packages depend on the nvidia-cg-toolkit can't we make an exception for intrepid?
<_Andrew> Its just a download, you don't need to build anything
<persia> _Andrew, You can request one, but I'd be surprised if the release managers approved it : it's a major repackaging effort.
<persia> The fact that nothing is rebuilt, and that all the reverse-build-depends are broken currently anyway might help.  If you can get it working in the next couple days, it's probably worth requesting an exception, but don't count on getting approved.
<_Andrew> When you say get it working, you mean build my own package into ppa?
<persia> That would be one way to do it.  Getting debian/copyright correct and verifiable is going to be tricky, as will getting dh_install to put everything in the right place, but the rest should be fairly trivial, and you can drop the fancy really-install-the-package from the postinst.
<persia> You're also going to have to have an interesting get-orig-source rule, as you'll want to pull both the 32- and 64-bit binaries from nvidia, and bundle them, and then install the right set at package build-time.
<persia> Doesn't really matter if you put it in a PPA or somewhere else, as long as it's in a format the release managers can review and determine if they will accept.
<jdong> oh. that's disappointing. FTBFS at the last dh_install of a 2hr build.
<ScottK> james_w: If the clutter packages are bugfix only, you don't need to subscribe motu-release.
<james_w> ScottK: the first two were, but there is one new feature in -gtk
<james_w> I can retitle the report if you like
<ScottK> james_w: I think that'd be good.  I read the title and thought I could ignore it.
<_Andrew> Oh wow the nvidia package install the 2004 version of cg.. lol, so old
<james_w> ScottK: yeah, done now, sorry
<persia> _Andrew, If you update, do make sure it still works with ogre.  If not, it's hardly worth it.
<_Andrew> Yeah I know it works because I have been compiling here for awhile
<persia> _Andrew, with the newest Cg toolkit?
<james_w> anybody understand -meta packages?
<james_w> bug 284497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284497 in ichthux-meta "[intrepid] Broken dependency due to kio-sword FTBFS" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284497
<_Andrew> persia: yes
<persia> james_w, txwikinger is chasing that.
<james_w> great
<ScottK> james_w: I'm about to sponsor that.
<_Andrew> persia: I'll check it again though
<james_w> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> We're discussing it on #kubuntu-devel (It's a KDE oriented derivative)
<txwikinger> hi persia o/
<james_w> \o/ import finished
<persia> txwikinger, Hey.
<persia> Anyone know octave?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libhdf5-serial-1.6.5-0 needs help.
<jcastro> crimsun: are your slides from your talk available anywhere?
<lfaraone> hey crimsun !
<postalchris> Where can I get advice about whether a project's license is compatible with packaging the project for Ubuntu?
<persia> postalchris, You can ask here, and we can give you an unofficial answer.
<persia> An official answer can only come from the archive admins, but they tend to review licenses only when a package is otherwise in perfect shape.
<postalchris> OK. I have reason to believe it might be problematic, bc apparently the same package was rejected from Fedora for licensing issues...
<postalchris> The license is here: http://www.cs.nyu.edu/acsys/cvc3/doc/LICENSE.html
<postalchris> And here's a log post about the Fedora issues: http://www.dwheeler.com/blog/2008/08/20#license-proliferation
<persia> OK.  Section 3 can be problematic, but there are known workarounds.
<persia> Personally, I don't get the same meaning as that blog post.
<postalchris> Me neither, but IANAL.
<postalchris> I think it's the indemnity clause that he's referring to.
<persia> I read "LICENSEE shall indemnify, hold hardmelss and defend ..." as meaning that if something goes wrong, you can't sue upstream, and if you redistribute, and someone sues you and upstream, you must defend both cases.
<persia> Mind you, unless I misunderstand, due to the section 4 "this probably doesn't work, and might infringe on a patent" clause, it's unlikely to get anything other than a request to cease distributing or a recall.
<postalchris> That all sounds reasonable to me. What restrictions does Ubuntu have on project licenses?
<persia> Hrm.  You'll want to delete the SAT solver zchaff stuff though.  That's not going to be acceptable (internal use typically prohibits redistribution)
<persia> postalchris, Generally, the requirements are the same as the Debian Free Software Guidelines.  There are a couple licenses on which Debian and Ubuntu differ.
<persia> (like CC 2.0 or GFDL)
<persia> But it's a difference in interpretation, rather than a difference in the guidelines.
<postalchris> OK. So a package would have to strip out and/or disable zchaff, bc it's not redistributable?
<persia> If I were packaging it, I'd strip that out because I wouldn't feel comfortable distributing my package to Ubuntu with those files.
<persia> http://www.cs.nyu.edu/acsys/cvc3/doc/xchaff__base_8h-source.html just doesn't look like something that permits distribution.
<postalchris> But if the package is "original tarball + patch that deletes zchaff files", isn't that redistribution?
<persia> Were I doing this, I'd write a debian/rules get-orig-source rule that generated a modified original tarball.
<ScottK> No, you need to repack the tarball and remove the file so the tarball is distributable.
<persia> Normally, this is a bad idea, but in this case, I think it's required if this is to be packaged.
<persia> ScottK, I've been told there is a patch for Japanese localisation of clamtk floating about, but I can't seem to find it.  Have you heard of such a thing, and would you know if it was applied?
<ScottK> No and No.
<persia> heh.  Given the second, the first isn't surprising.  Thanks.
<postalchris> Thanks guys. If I understand correctly, the (main) license isn't a deal-breaker. I'll look into this some more.
<persia> postalchris, It is different than normal, so it may take quite a while for the archive-admins to review and approve/deny.  I'd recommend that if you want it in, you try to get it added to the queue for jaunty as early as possible (preferably mid-november to early-december)
<emh> persia: xprintidle 0.2 is due for debian experimental. lenny is frozen.
<persia> emh, Good work.  Intrepid just froze about 8 hours ago, so it should be an autosync for jaunty.  Nice job working with all the parties to get that fixed.
<rainct> ScottK: have you seen the "*" note on my mail?)
<ScottK> rainct: No.  I hadn't.  Need to read the whole message.  Sorry.
<stefanlsd> Does anyone know what happened / how to run db_unregister
<stefanlsd> ooh, its a function of debconf
<rainct> ScottK: Heh. No problem :).   It's not that I mind much about it, but I think it makes more sense to have such requests on Brainstorm
<ScottK> rainct: I guess.  Personally I don't look there, but I suppose others do.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Is it still possible to include the fix for Bug #283717 in Intrepid? I've just uploaded the debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283717 in pyopengl "Broken glRenderMode() (fixed in PyOpenGL 3.0.0b4)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283717
<fabrice_sp> (only a patch to b3)
<stefanlsd> Does anyone have an idea why i would be getting /var/lib/dpkg/info/bugzilla3.postrm: 1: db_unregister: not found (multiple times) - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/58461/ (debug output)
<crimsun> jcastro: I dented you the URL yesterday...
<jcastro> crimsun: oh, thanks!
<jcastro> fell off my gwibber scrollbar. :-/
<stefanlsd> james_w: you around?
<crimsun> jdong: mind approving the patch in bug 132133, please?  if so, please sponsor.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 132133 in ksubtitleripper "ksubtitleripper editing UI broken" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132133
<jdong> crimsun: you mean if not, please sponsor, correct? :). Grammar nazi aside, the patch looks good to me; I'll test & sponsor.
<stefanlsd> crimsun: i see you did a couple of updates to flashplugin-nonfree - do you know how you managed to get the direct download link for flash player?  cant seem to get it...
<crimsun> stefanlsd: I use the link for the tar.gz
<crimsun> jdong: thanks
<stefanlsd> crimsun: current one is - http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz - which is suspect is always linked to the latest
<crimsun> stefanlsd: perhaps it is now the permanent link, but I always confirm the URL's validity.
<psusi> it appears that the defrag package is missing from hardy and intrepid... according to the launchpad page on the source package, it was "superseded" in hardy... what does this mean?
<slytherin> psusi: superceeded simply means a new version was packaged.
<psusi> slytherin: but there isn't a newer one...
<psusi> it simply was dropped it looks like
<slytherin> psusi: can you point me to the link?
<psusi> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/defrag
<crimsun> psusi: you'll need to ask if it was removed from the archive
<psusi> and packages.ubuntu.com doesn't find it in hardy or later
<psusi> it looks to me like it has been... but how do I see when and why and how to undo that?
<crimsun> psusi: please ask an archive admin in -devel
<psusi> hrm... ok
<crimsun> (sorry, I don't know offhand if there are new notifications, etc.)
<james_w> hey stefanlsd
<stefanlsd> james_w: heys. bugzilla3.  it works for me when i use dbconfig, and yeah. fails for me when i dont - you get the same result?
<ajmitch_>  /win 21
 * ajmitch_ blames irssi
<james_w> stefanlsd: not tried with dbconfig
<milli> ScottK: around?
<ScottK> Yes
<milli> what's it take to get xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd version 1.2.3 into Interpid at this point?
<milli> I've been using it for a week now without any problems... it has 3D acceleration in it and XVideo support!
<milli> version 1.2.1 is what's in Interpid right now, with no 3D support
<ScottK> milli: I think we have 1.2.1
<milli> (this is an alternative to using fglrx driver for recent ATI chipsets)
<milli> I also notice that 1.2.3 is not even in Debian experimental....
<ScottK> milli: It's in Main, so unless there is something actually release critical, pretty well zero.
<milli> I'd call 3D support release critical...  ;-)
<milli> or not
<milli> np, I can live with building my own packages
<ScottK> tseliot or superm1: Do you know anything about this one^^
<milli> would be nice to have a 3D alternative to fglrx that's working today
<tseliot> ScottK: that's something Bryce deals with
<ajmitch> problem is the possibility of regressions on all the other ATI chipsets that may be around
<milli> I added a note here -->  http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ATI_Mobility_FireGL_V5200
<ajmitch> because drivers are so much fun
<milli> that I will have to amend
<tseliot> milli: maybe try asking bryce in #ubuntu-x
<milli> ajmitch: nod, what I figured...  it works perfectly on an M56 core fwiw
<milli> tseliot: nod
 * ajmitch doesn't even know what driver would be suitable for this old card
<stefanlsd> james_w: kk. can you try and edit /etc/bugzilla3/localconfig  and change db_check = 0 ..
<james_w> stefanlsd: I'm trying again with dbconfig
<james_w> stefanlsd: I'll be with you in a minute
<stefanlsd> james_w: kk
<tseliot> ScottK: can you have a look at my SRU, please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-177/+bug/261816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261816 in linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 "nvidia: Multiple versions in DKMS" [Medium,In progress]
<tseliot> ScottK: it's just a bugfix in a postinst which I backported from Intrepid to Hardy
<ScottK> tseliot: I'm not in the SRU team.
<tseliot> ScottK: no? I thought you were a member of motu-sru
<ScottK> I was, but no longer.
<tseliot> aah
<tseliot> ok, thanks anyway
<james_w> stefanlsd: still fails
<stefanlsd> james_w: db_check or dbconfig?
<james_w> stefanlsd: apparently because it can't connect to a local mysql server
<james_w> morgs: hi, I don't mind you subscribing me to your sponsor requests, but please also subscribe the sponsor team as normal so that they don't get dropped
<stefanlsd> james_w:  dbconfig failing or db_check = 0 still failing?
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/58513/
<stefanlsd> james_w: mysql running?
<james_w> nope
<stefanlsd> james_w: k. works on my intrepid, gonna test it in pbuilder chroot now
<stefanlsd> james_w: heh. i see mysql-server is in the recommends (along with postgres)
<sebner> wb geser :)
<geser> Hi sebner
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-17
<jcastro> I am putting together a request for "speakers" for the next open week; is it reasonable to expect most motus follow ubuntu-devel or should I crosspost to -motu as well?
 * jcastro gets anxious when sending out mass mails
<cody-somerville> feel free to cross post
<ajmitch> you won't get savaged by a pack of rabid animals
<jcastro> oh don't worry, I can handle being savaged, I just like to not spam. :D
<jcastro> ajmitch: long time no see, how are thing?
<ajmitch> yeah good, how are you?
<jcastro> ajmitch: "ahhh, release month" is the best I can say. :D
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> yes :)
<ajmitch> surely you're just sitting back & relaxing?
<jcastro> heh
<zul> spam spam spam spam
<mcasadevall> emgent, ping
<nxvl> jcastro: count on me for UOW
<jcastro> nxvl: add yourself to the prep page please!
<nxvl> jcastro: already done
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> jcastro: i want to run a session explaining the development cicle, freezes, milestones and all that stuff
<ajmitch> those sort of things are never at a decent time for me :)
<_Andrew> If I need to package a deb twice with different data for i386 and amd64 how do I name it so that they're the same package but different debs?
<RAOF> _Andrew: In what way different data for i386 and amd64?
<ScottK> NCommander: Looking for some FTBFS?
<_Andrew> Well if it's a binary package
<ScottK> NCommander: You might want to get gtklookat to build with the current libopenvrml so the old one can be NBS'ed out.
<persia> _Andrew, You don't want to do it that way.  Create a source package with both the amd64 and i386 blobs, and then generate the correct contents for the .deb in debian/rules
<persia> NCommander, it's a bit of an API change.
<_Andrew> Is there a way you know off the top of your head to check if a build is 64 or 86 in the rules file?
<persia> I think it's DEB_HOST_ARCH
 * persia checks
<persia> Hrm.  Actually, I'm confused about the right rune to support crosscompilation.  Just use `DEB_HOST_ARCH ?= $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH)` for now.
<_Andrew> ok
<persia> If you construct your source using the right directories, you can then install from the $(DEB_HOST_ARCH)/ directory, and it ought to do the right thing (assuming you are unpacking into directories named "i386" and "amd64").
<persia> Note for those without context : this is about packaging the nvidia-cg-toolkit binary blobs for multiverse : this is *not* a good packaging technique in most cases.
<_Andrew> ok i'll do that then..
<NCommander> persia, which package?
<mdomsch> persia, -ENOSOURCE
<mdomsch> makes you jump through hoops
<persia> NCommander, gtklookat
<persia> mdomsch, Yep: that's precisely the problem :)
<NCommander> persia, what's the current libopenvrml?
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> I see
<persia> NCommander, build-dep is libopenvrml-dev (unversioned)
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> That makes sense :-)
<persia> I spent a few hours on it last night : there's more changes than I usually like.
<NCommander> How far did you get?
<persia> My current version still doesn't parse as valid C.
<persia> (mind you, this is probably because half of it is C++, but it still ought parse)
<NCommander> Ouch
<NCommander> I take it this is going to be a major headache?
<persia> 383 days since the last Debian upload, so no hints there.
<NCommander> what about upstream?
<persia> Well, someone has to learn the libopenvrml API, I suspect
<NCommander> Argh, I *Hate* quilt
<persia> upstream doesn't distribute it in the newer releases.
<NCommander> wait, what?
 * persia looks for evidence of consolidation
<persia> NCommander, There's a reference in the upstream changelog from 2006: "Removed lingering reference to lookat".  Given that the version of openvrml we currently ship happens to produce lookat, I suspect that the issue is larger than an API.  I should have looked at this last night.
 * NCommander checks popcon on gtklookat
<NCommander> Removal may be the correct solution
<persia> I'm thinking that.
<NCommander> Argh
<NCommander> why does ubuntu's popcon suck compared to debian's :-/
<persia> How do you mean?
<NCommander> On popcon, you can look up specific packages without having to open the by_inst log which is huge
<persia> Ah, yes, that would be frustrating.
<NCommander> persia, its got 1 recent usage on Debian
<NCommander> and I don't even see it on the Ubuntu installation lists
<NCommander> (aka, no one who has popcon has it installed ...
<NCommander> persia, so I think it can be safely removed :-)
<persia> NCommander, Sounds good.  I'll file a bug.  I think openvrml needs a major packaging overhaul, based on upstream NEWS.  I'm strongly of the opinion that the current package has some issues.
<NCommander> It likely needs to be fixed in Debian
<NCommander> Or should be
<persia> Oh, certainly, but I suspect the number of users is sufficiently small that it can happen in squeeze.
<NCommander> persia, looking at popcon (I made a type) there are 18 recent users
<NCommander> But 980 installations, 56 recent users, 18 recent upgrades
 * NCommander isn't used to reading popcon data
<persia> NCommander, Of gtklookat?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> :-/
<persia> OK.  So, it wants porting then, or people want working VRML?
<NCommander> persia, gtklookat was dropped upstream
<persia> Yes, a couple years ago.
<NCommander> I think dropping it is the correct solution
<NCommander> persia, it looks like the gtklookat plugin was replaced with a browser plugin or something
<persia> Oh, I don't disagree with that, I'm just wondering how to pander to the users.
<NCommander> so its useless if your using modern versions of the library
<persia> There's a plugin and a standalone app.
<NCommander> the functionality probably went into the standalone app
<persia> There's also an RC bug in Debian about openvrml FTBFS (which I'm checking).  It may be worth fixing in Debian sooner, rather than later.
<persia> And according to Debian bug #459242 , it doesn't even work correctly :)
<ubottu> Debian bug 459242 in gtklookat "gtklookat: different results on different computers" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/459242
<NCommander> persia, where's the FTBFS bug?
 * NCommander was looking at RC bugs
<NCommander> I can get that NMUed in Debian
<persia> NCommander, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=openvrml&archive=no&pend-exc=pending-fixed&pend-exc=fixed&pend-exc=done&sev-inc=critical&sev-inc=grave&sev-inc=serious&repeatmerged=no has two of them.
<persia> I'd suggest the new upstream to be the solution, and not shipping in Lenny.  I'm testing in intrepid, but suspect I'll feel the same about that.
<persia> Note that new upstream requires NEW, so probably doesn't belong in either lenny or intrepid.
<NCommander> So what do we do?
<NCommander> Drop openvrml?
<persia> (plus it needs ubuntu delta for mozilla-ness, so sync isn't right either).
<persia> I say we drop gtklookat, and drop openvrml if my build-test fails.  gtklookat belongs on the blacklist, but I don't think we should blacklist openvrml, and we can try to fix it for squeeze/jaunty.
<NCommander> We have openvrml-atlook now
<NCommander> So the newer versions have replacements
<persia> Take a look in debian/patches :)
<NCommander> ?
<persia> We have openvrml-lookat.  Upstream doesn't.
<NCommander> Can we drop like the 20 odd versions of this library?
<NCommander> (there are like four seperate versions ...)
<persia> I only see libopenvrml8 and the NBS libopenvrml5c2a
<StevenK> persia: gtklookat is quite stuffed
<StevenK> persia: Upstream doesn't care any more, and it needs significant rewriting to deal with the API changes that openvrml has gone through
<persia> StevenK, Yeah.  I'm filing a removal bug as soon as the openvrml build fails.  Perhaps you'd like to action it once I'm done?
<StevenK> persia: Perhaps
<persia> It seems we have a few other VRML viewers, so I'm not very worried.
<NCommander> persia, I have libopenvrml4, 3, and 0
<NCommander> or
<NCommander> More specificly
<persia> NCommander, If your apt-cache clean?
<persia> NCommander, Is your sources.list trim?
<NCommander> apt-cache clean says command not found
<persia> Yes.  making a clean apt-cache comes from running any of the many apt-cache affecting tools in "update" mode.
<NCommander> How do I do that if apt-cache clean doesn't exist ;-)?
<persia> Mind you, you'll want a trim sources.list before you do that.
<NCommander> It's just intrepid
<NCommander> And my PPA
<NCommander> oh wait, I have the REVU sources list on it
<NCommander> O_o;
<persia> No, you run an update from adept, synaptic, update-manager, apt-get, aptitude, python-apt, libept, or something similar.
<persia> That cleans the apt-cache.
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> Trying
<persia> (but only if you have a good sources.list)
<NCommander> You don't have it on yours?
<NCommander> (if you don't, then its not going to irk me)
<persia> No.
<NCommander> ok
<persia> Try updating a build chroot, and checking the apt cache therein.
<NCommander> So what do we do now?
<NCommander> (while I check)
<persia> If you find lots of libopenvrmls, please hunt and kill them.  I'll take care of 5c2a and 8.
<StevenK> I'll deal with 5c2a
<StevenK> Along with gtklookat
<persia> Cool.  That just leaves me 8.
<NCommander> anything else I can do?
<StevenK> 8 is also NBS?
 * persia files the gtklookat bug quick so StevenK has an excuse.
<persia> No, but I believe it to be FTBFS, and require a new upstream to be sensible.
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> Intrepid went frozen?
<StevenK> Right
<NCommander> when did that happen?
<StevenK> Yesterday]
<StevenK> s/]//
<lifeless> after it wasn't frozen
<StevenK> Hah
 * NCommander whacks lifeless 
<NCommander> so what does that mean specifically?
<StevenK> It won't thaw before release. That makes me sad.
 * lifeless releases the hounds
 * NCommander eats the hounds
 * NCommander uses a phoenix down on lifeless
<lifeless> thats gonna smart
<StevenK> "Ow! That's going to bleed when my heart beats!"
<persia> NCommander, It means that if you upload something that changes anyone's build images, and you don't have an RC reason, you'll get smacked.
<lifeless> NCommander: it means that no changes without approval from here on in
<NCommander> Right
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> I was expecting that
<NCommander> I just didn't realize the actual status of the archive changed in launchpad
<persia> It's the only way to enforce the approvals.
<StevenK> For universe/multiverse, not yet
<StevenK> Read -devel-announce
<persia> StevenK, Well, it still needs approvals, but it's a little easier to get them.
 * NCommander should subscribe to that ;-)
 * StevenK thumps NCommander 
 * NCommander looks forward to finishing his first cycle with DIF jaunty
 * NCommander thumps StevenK 
<persia> StevenK, bug #284768 for posterity.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284768 in gtklookat "Please remove gtklookat from Intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284768
 * StevenK logs into cocoplum again
<NCommander> cocoplum?
<NCommander> Is there ANY logic behind canonicals naming scheme?
<persia> No.
<_Andrew> sorry guys one last question, how do I authenticate my packages when I download them from myppa?
<NCommander> _Andrew, you can't
<NCommander> Limitation of PPAs
<persia> _Andrew, Copy them to some other repo, and sign that repo.
<NCommander> or do that
<_Andrew> So I can't distribute a key or something and download them from myppa?
<persia> Nope.
<_Andrew> That sucks
<_Andrew> hehe
<NCommander> _Andrew, its a known bug with Launchpad, but the fix isn't trival or even clear
<StevenK> persia: gtklookat and libopenvrml5c2a killed
<persia> StevenK, Cool.  I suspect I'm going to want all of openvrml gone (but not blacklisted), but that can wait.
<NCommander> StevenK, that's an awesome power
<StevenK> Oh yeah
 * StevenK blacklists gtklookat
<_Andrew> ok it doesn't really matter.. I've been packaging all the things I need for people to download to compile my code.. Here you can check it out.. https://launchpad.net/~andrewfenn/+archive
<_Andrew> I'm pretty proud since i've never packaged before
<NCommander> _Andrew, you can submit your packages for submission into Ubuntu via REVU
<NCommander> (although you'll have to wait for Jaunty to open)
<StevenK> NCommander: Hmm?
<NCommander> StevenK, the power to zap packages ;-)
<persia> NCommander, This particular package would do better to go through Debian, as it's a repackaging to take advantage of upstream license changes, and would solve a number of complex issues.
<StevenK> NCommander: It's quite fun
<NCommander> persia, I can see about getting it NMUed since upstream is quite dead
<persia> OK.  Last meaningful NBS issue seems to be octave-gpc.
<_Andrew> I submitted a bug at debian already
<NCommander> persia, I have someone willing to do the NMU, which mean once squeeze is opened, I can look at getting it orphaned and then updated
<persia> NCommander, I think you're talking about a different package than _Andrew and I.
<_Andrew> and in Ubuntu linking to the debian bug and also put in where to find the deb I made incase anyone wants it
<NCommander> persia, I'm talking about openvrml
<persia> _Andrew, Did you run lintian against your package (nvidia-cg-toolkit) ?
<_Andrew> I have no idea hehe
<NCommander> That probably means no
<persia> NCommander, Getting that updated would be good.  You might want to check with sam about dropping gtklookat as well.
<NCommander> _Andrew, lintian is a utility to find common bugs in packages
<NCommander> Try running lintian on your .dsc and on your debs
<_Andrew> oh right, I didn't do that for any of them
<NCommander> _Andrew, if your interested in getting those packages in Debian, I'd be glad to help you with that
<persia> _Andrew, You've generated a native package.  You don't want to do that.
<NCommander> Argh
 * NCommander just possibly found an RC bug
<NCommander>   libfam-dev: Depends: libfam0 (= 2.7.0-13.3ubuntu1)
<NCommander> Can't install
<NCommander> can someone confirm?
 * StevenK checks
<_Andrew> I ran lintian against my dsc and it doesn't do anything.. that's good right?
<persia> That's good.
<NCommander> It means there are no stupid packaging bugs, so yes :-)
<StevenK> _Andrew: It does do stuff, it just doesn't report anything
<persia> You also want a debian/rules get-orig-source rule to explain how to construct the source files.
<NCommander> _Andrew, most *NIX utilities say nothing if everything is ok
<_Andrew> yeah I know but well.. sometimes you just wanna confirm..
<NCommander> :-)
<persia> _Andrew, Also, you are editorialising in debian/copyright : don't do that.  Do identify the upstream authors and copyright holder.
<NCommander> StevenK, can you install libfam-dev?
<_Andrew> Which file?
<StevenK> NCommander: Yes
<_Andrew> the toolkit?
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> hrm
 * NCommander looks at why this went boom
<StevenK> NCommander: Direct from archive.u.c to my machine
<NCommander> persia, are you on -release?
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> TheMuso, ping?
<TheMuso> NCommander: pong
<NCommander> TheMuso, can I get an ack for an upload to universe?
<TheMuso> NCommander: bug?
<StevenK> You don't need an ack currently, I think
<NCommander> The archive is frozen
<persia> NCommander, Very much not.
<NCommander> So doesn't -release have to unfreeze that package
<NCommander> or do I misunderstand?
<TheMuso> NCommander: only for upstrea/Feature freeze.
<TheMuso> upstream
 * NCommander is familiar with Debian freezes
<NCommander> but not Ubuntu
 * persia files bug #284775
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284775 in openvrml "Please remove openvrml from intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284775
<NCommander> So who gets a package to enter the archive if archive state == frozen?
<StevenK> main/restricted requires -release to say yes
<persia> NCommander, An archive admin needs to explicitly accept it.  They will only do so based on the guidance of the relevant release team.
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> I see
<NCommander> that makes sense
<NCommander> ok
 * NCommander runs and hides now ;-)
<persia> StevenK, Technically, universe/multiverse requires MOTU-release to say yes, but there's been a semi-blanket "yes" said for the next few days.
<persia> OK.  It's archive-consistency season.  I've 76 packages on amd64 that cannot install.  Could people with other architectures please run `apt-cache unmet -i | grep ^Package  | wc -l` and report the results?  I suspect we've some work to do.
<StevenK> persia: Does intrepid_probs.html agree with you?
<persia> StevenK, intrepid_probs.html is only 2 architectures, and only main.  It doesn't tend to be a very interesting source of stuff to do.
<persia> Everything in there is either langpacks or kernels.
<StevenK> persia: Oh, yes. libhdf5-serial-1.6.5-0 essentially only contains octave-gpc to be fixed.
<persia> intrepid_outdate.html is a little more interesting
<StevenK> persia: octave-gpc looks to be very hard to get working against octave 3.0
<persia> StevenK, Yeah.  I looked at that, and deleted the results after fiddling a bit.
<persia> It needs someone who actually understands octave.
<StevenK> I managed to get it compiling stuff, but the API has changed
<StevenK> Since configure.in was written by someone who assumed that $major_version is always 2
<persia> NCommander, You like playing with goats, right?
<NCommander> persia, er?
<NCommander> goats?
 * persia finds an image from the O'Reilly catalog
<NCommander> What needs porting?
<persia> octave-gpc
<NCommander> I don't know anything about octave
<persia> http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/cover.jpg
<NCommander> What does upstream have to say on the subject?
<persia> (that should explain the goats)
<NCommander> It does
<NCommander> But it still sounds wrong
<StevenK> octave-gpc |    0.1.6-5 | unstable/contrib | source, amd64, arm, ia64
<StevenK> I guess that explains a little
<persia> 219 days old (needed 10 days)
<NCommander> It's a multiverse package?
<NCommander> It's got no rdepends
<NCommander> 17152 octave-gpc                       488     4    97     2   385 (Debian Octave Group)
<persia> NCommander, It's GPL multiverse though, which makes it less unpleasant.
<NCommander> so 488 installs, 4 regular users, 97 old users, two recent upgrades, and 384 unknowns
<persia> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/o/octave-gpc/octave-gpc_0.1.6-5/copyright
<NCommander> persia, looks dead upstream
<persia> StevenK, How do you feel about removal?
<NCommander> Four users, no rdepends
<StevenK> I'd like to discuss with pitti, first
 * NCommander checks debian popcon
<sbeattie> persia: 47 on i386 here.
<persia> sbeattie, That's a much smaller number, which is good, but still a bit to do :)
<persia> NCommander, Not so dead upstream.  Last commit was only 8 months ago.
<NCommander> I can't see a stable release for it
<sbeattie> persia: mind you, edos-debcheck finds 99 on i386. Not sure why some don't show up in apt-cache unmet -i.
<persia> Lack of stable release doesn't mean dead.
<persia> sbeattie, Recommends.
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ provides a pretty good picture of everything that needs doing, but it's *lots* of packages.  I think apt-cache unmet -i is the first stage : once those are complete, it's worth chasing the rest.
<NCommander> apt-cache unmet -i?
<StevenK> Run it
<sbeattie> persia: odd, neither apt-cache unmet -i nor http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ list xxkb as uninstallable, but it definitely is, though it just needs a rebuild.
<dholbach> good morning
<sbeattie> (well, I have no idea if the rebuilt package actually works as expected; it did things, but it was not obvious that it was behaving correctly and the online documentation for it is in russian)
<persia> sbeattie, Very odd indeed.
<persia> Well, that's a help.  Is there a bug for that?
<sbeattie> bug 76260
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 76260 in xxkb "[UNMETDEPS] x11-common conflicts with xxkb, but xxkb depends on x11-common inderectly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76260
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<didrocks> good morning everyone ! :)
<dholbach> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hi dholbach !
<NCommander> how goes it dholbach
<dholbach> NCommander: good good, slowly waking up :)
 * NCommander gives dholbach coffee
<dholbach> gracias :)
<geser> dholbach: http://xkcd.com/490/ ?
<dholbach> geser: no no, I got up already :-)
<persia> sbeattie, Just for future note, it's a good idea to subscribe the sponsors when you attach a debdiff to a bug.
<sbeattie> persia: I know, I was hoping for some confirmation that the ppa package actually worked correctly first; if it didn't, I was going to request it just be dropped.
<persia> sbeattie, For exceedingly unloved packages like that, we usually just test a bit locally, and if it doesn't break anything, upload, as it's probably better than the previous state.
<persia> Mind you, the package still build-deps on x-dev, which is non-ideal, but that can be fixed for Jaunty.
<highvoltage> moring dholbach
<dholbach> hiya highvoltage
<BugMaN> morning all
<highvoltage> dholbach: will http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1345 be available on http://video.ubuntu.com/motuvideos/ as well?
<highvoltage> hi BugMaN
<dholbach> highvoltage: I'll ask him for the original
<highvoltage> thanks dholbach!
<huats> morning everyone !
<directhex> is it? :o
<didrocks> morning huats ;)
<huats> morning didrocks
<james_w> lfaraone: congratulations
<morgs> james_w: morning!
 * morgs is looking for a good example of how to handle binary package renames. Provide a transition package?
<slytherin> morgs: what is the reason for rename?
<morgs> slytherin: we synced from debian which had some different names to hardy - e.g. hulahop -> python-hulahop
<morgs> and sugar-toolkit -> python-sugar-toolkit
<morgs> so it's for upgrades from hardy
<slytherin> morgs: do the new packages replace any files form the old one? I think you might want to take a look at how it was done for bluez.
<slytherin> morgs: bluez replaces everything that was present in bluez-utils.
<morgs> slytherin: OK thanks, it's basically a rename, so if you had hulahop installed, you now want python-hulahop installed to replace hulahop
<morgs> I'll look at bluez
<doggymenz> dude, put openoffice3 and blender248 in repo
<doggymenz> there is old version in repo
<orly_owl> ok dude
<doggymenz> thx dude
<orly_owl> np
<james_w> hey morgs
<slytherin> persia: there?
<jrib> python-webkitgtk is broken and fails to build from source :/
<directhex> webkit-sharp is great and builds fine from source. boo to python
<POX> lol
 * jrib sees the problem methinks and boo sharp :)
<persia> slytherin, kinda, but distracted.
<slytherin> persia: when you have time, just let me know if we should get merge change - http://packages.qa.debian.org/libj/libjogl-java/news/20081012T161521Z.html
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<persia> slytherin, No, we don't want to do that while it's frozen.
<slytherin> persia: So do you mean we can get it past RC?
<slytherin> s/past/post
<persia> slytherin, I mean I don't think it's worth trying to push it.  We're not going to get a multiverse->universe change, so the license change isn't so important.
<lfaraone> thanks, james_w
<slytherin> Ok.
<slytherin> persia: and what about this - http://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2008/10/msg00014.html
<persia> slytherin, How many packages?  If it's only three or four, it's worth fixing.  If it's more, it's probably not worth fixing.
<jrib> when is it ok for pywebkitgtk_1.0.1.orig.tar.gz to be modified?
<jrib> from whatever the project actually puts out
<persia> jrib, When it contains stuff you can't distribute because of the licensing.
<persia> jrib, The rest of the time, you shouldn't do that.
<jrib> persia: thanks
<persia> jrib, Actually, there's also a repack exemption.  If upstream produces a .bz or a .zip or something, we can repack to orig.tar.gz, but the contents must remain identical in that case.
<NCommander> persia, Launchpad still doesn't accept orig.tar.bz2's?
<persia> NCommander, I haven't tried in a while, but I've not seen an announcement that it does.  Ask in #launchpad to be sure.
<NCommander> persia, I'll fire an upload to my PPA at some point to test
<persia> DktrKranz, Would you have time to test an -rt kernel for intrepid this evening?
<slytherin> persia: two packages, statcvs and jta
<slytherin> persia: A sync is preferred, right? Those packages are already fixed in Debian.
<persia> slytherin, Pushing two packages to drop two obsolete libraries is definitely worth it.  Please proceed, and give me the bug numbers.
<persia> A sync is preferred iff there is nothing else that is worrisome.
<persia> If that's the only change, certainly.  If the other changes are also critical, yes.  Otherwise, backport the changes.
<slytherin> persia: The latest changelogs are not available on packages.debian.org and hence request-sync is giving trouble. I will tell you bug numbers by tomorrow.
<persia> slytherin, Sounds good.
<doggymenz> please update python-pyglet in repo from 1.0 to 1.1
<persia> doggymenz, The archive is frozen for the intrepid release.  What does the new version bring that would be worth a possible regression?
<doggymenz> the example code i download dont run, because its coded for the old version
<doggymenz> the documentation i lookup doesnt work
<doggymenz> because its documentation for new version
<doggymenz> and there i stand with my dick in my hand using an old version
<DktrKranz> persia: sure... if I find time to break other packages with "security fixes" :D
<doggymenz> maybe if i would have the new version, i wouldnt have this problem, not being able to grab keyboard events from NUMPAd
<DktrKranz> persia: where can I find it'
<persia> DktrKranz, Bug #281276 has a pointer.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281276 in linux-rt "Upgrade linux-rt to 2.6.27" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281276
<doggymenz> also  if archive is frozen, then put it in backports
<DktrKranz> persia: mind subscribing me at the bug report? I'm lacking a browser right now
<persia> doggymenz, It can probably be put in backports for intrepid in early November.  At this point, there's nowhere from which to backport it.
<persia> DktrKranz, Not at all.
<persia> DktrKranz, even w3m or elinks?
<DktrKranz> yep
<doggymenz> its in debian-unstable
<morgs> I need to add a ___.install for a package where I'm adding a separate transitional package. Is there any quick way to generate that?
<james_w> morgs: does the package need to contain anything?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: all GNAT related packages are in hardy-proposed \o/
 * NCommander sprays some bugspray on -proposed
<NCommander> DktrKranz, finally :-)!
<DktrKranz> NCommander: I plan to have some testing during weekend, mind giving a look you too?
<morgs> james_w: no, the transitional package doesn't need anything, but it's like the sugar package when we added sugar-activities... the files in the main package aren't installing
 * NCommander would have to install Hardy on something
<james_w> morgs: ah, I see.
<persia> NCommander, virtualisation is the key
<james_w> morgs: not really, depends what's in it, just installing usr/ might be a good start
<directhex> hm... suggestions on debian/watch of a svn repo?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: a hardy pbuilder should be enough for most packages
<NCommander> persia, its a good thing I hacked VTx in my BIOS to on
<morgs> james_w: so putting debian/tmp/usr/* would install anything in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packates/.../.../ etc?
<DktrKranz> (if not all)
<james_w> morgs: I believe so
<morgs> james_w: thanks, that's great.
 * james_w realises he hasn't actually done much packaging for a long time
<persia> james_w, You've been coding, which makes up for that.
<slytherin> doggymenz: we only post sources from debian. The way backports work - the version has to enter first in the latest unstable version and built there without problem. Then one can request for backport and it will be evaluated. One there are no build problems for backport it will made available as test build. Only after confirmation it will be actually out in -backports repository.
<slytherin> just curious, has anyone here ever tried coreboot?
<NCommander> slytherin, yes, awhile back
<slytherin> NCommander: how good is it? And what are the chances that I would put my system in completely unusable state?
<NCommander> slytherin, pretty awesome, and pretty high if your hardware isn't supported
<james_w> on that note, can someone check this for me please? http://paste.ubuntu.com/58790/
<doggymenz> slytherin, well pyglet is in debian-unstable, so someone should put it in backports... also someone should put blender and openoffice3 there too
<NCommander> doggymenz, we only backport from intrepid expect in extremely rare cases
<NCommander> (or more specifically the current release)
<persia> james_w, Which file does libgems-ruby share with rubygems?
<james_w> persia: for the Replaces?
<persia> james_w, Err.  Nevermind.  I see what you're doing.
<persia> No, the conflicts.
<persia> james_w, Only issue I see is that you fail to mention that the rubygems package is a transitional package, and may be removed.
<james_w> in the description?
<persia> Yep.
<james_w> I pulled it from Debian, but I agree
<persia> See e.g. the x-dev description.
<james_w> is there some magic if you put "(transitional package)" in the short description?
<doggymenz> well, im getting sick of living 6+ months with old releases, while everyone else can happily enjoy the latest stuff
<persia> james_w, Only in terms of compliance to conventions.  Some people grep for it, but it's not common.
<blanktheserver> Blender isn't a serious thing to not have in the repos, since it's only an application it's easy to compile manually. Although the latest versions are really pushing forward.
<james_w> persia: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-transition
<james_w> persia: that's what I was remembering
<james_w> I don't think it's a major use case though
<persia> james_w, Like I said.  Some people grep for it, but it's not common :)
<slytherin> doggymenz: Ok. I was talking about unstable release of Ubuntu. Ubuntu gets source from Debian and they have to be built on Ubuntu build servers.
<NCommander> uh, doggymenz, Debian releases once every one to two years. You can run intrepid if you want more up to date things, and jaunty opens in a few weeks which will import everything from sid
<doggymenz> slytherin, im running 8.10 intrepid ibex, and i must use old packages :(
<NCommander> doggymenz, we're in feature freeze because we are about to do a release.
<slytherin> doggymenz: Can't help much here.
<doggymenz> NCommander, yeah.. but after the release, i still wont get any new packages, will i ?
<NCommander> doggymenz, we can backport to intrepid then.
<NCommander> doggymenz, or you can run jaunty
<NCommander> (the package will enter jaunty, then we can backport it to hardy or intrepid if we get a request)
<blanktheserver> doggymenz, why not simply compile the latest and greatest, the things you mentioned are simple to build manually. I'm sure there's even ppa's with packages for whatever you want.
<slytherin> blanktheserver: what about blender? The 2.46 version is already there in intrepid
<blanktheserver> 2.46 isn't the latest.
<doggymenz> NCommander, no i cant run jaunty, because if i do that, my system will break and my computer wont be useable
<blanktheserver> slytherin, in fact 2.48 was just released.
<slytherin> blanktheserver: We won't get 2.47 in repos now. If there are any particular bug fixes you would like, log a bug, someone will try to backport the fix.
<doggymenz> i want all new features
<blanktheserver> slytherin, yes I know, I don
<doggymenz> i want 2.48
<blanktheserver> doggymenz, as I said, compile it yourself
<doggymenz> :(
<blanktheserver> It's really not hard.
<doggymenz> i shouldnt need to, it should "just work"
<doggymenz> windows users are never stuck with old software, they can always enjoy the benefits of the latest software as soon as it gets released
<blanktheserver> doggymenz, the latest and greatest has a tendency to not "just work" hence its non-inclusion.
<doggymenz> it always works on windows
<doggymenz> i downloaded blender 2.48 and openoffice3 on windows xp, and it worked
<persia> doggymenz, You can certainly download and install any version you want.  It might even work.  As with Windows, it's not included in the box.
<doggymenz> well, if its in the repo, i can certainly download and install it... if its not in the repo, well, then tough luck
<Laney> No, not tough luck. If it's not in the repo then you can get it from source yourself.
<blanktheserver> doggymenz, it is not hard to install software from source.
<blanktheserver> And you could do the same for linux doggymenz, but that's not the point. Beta software as well as latest release software isn't supported because it isn't tested, where the latest and greatest features might matter to you, other people just want a stable operating system. If you want the latest, compile it yourself or get it from a ppa.
<blanktheserver> I might also add doggymenz, that blender doesn't even need to be compiled.
<blanktheserver> It comes pre-built.
<doggymenz> blanktheserver, yes it is. you have to read guide to know what commands to type, make, make install, ./configure, etc... and then it never compiles because of dependencies, if you get the dependencies it still wont compile. now if you manage to compile it, and install it.. then you cant uninstall it
<stefanlsd> Im using pbuilder chroot  with pbuilder --login . It seem to replicate things properly. like  installing a package doesnt give me the debconf dialog boxes. is that normal?
<blanktheserver> doggymenz, you're making it harder than it is.
<persia> stefanlsd, You should get just as many debconf prompts in the chroot, unless debconf is configured to be non-interactive or something.
<blanktheserver> doggymenz, ./configure then make then make install then if needed, make uninstall
<doggymenz> oh
<doggymenz> its never been that simple for me
<StevenK> NCommander: Is is done yet?
<doggymenz> it always complained about dependencies, i tried get thme, it still woudlnt compil
<blanktheserver> doggymenz, obviously you need the dependencies too, but they are just a google and an apt away.
<stefanlsd> persia: mmm. not getting any for mysql-server (cant remember if that actually had) - and also bugzilla3  (which def does have if i install it on my live intrepid machine).  so like you said, unless they look for some environment setting and dont do it then...
<persia> stefanlsd, try running dpkg-reconfigure debconf and then doing the installs :)
<doggymenz> i just installed pyglet 1.1 and it solved the problem of keyboard events not being able to catch numpad number keys
<stefanlsd> persia: dpkg-reconfigure debconf does nothing, and still dont get dialog boxes :)
<persia> stefanlsd, Hrm.  Dunno then.  Sorry.
<stefanlsd> persia: hehe :)   do you think you would be able to test your intrepid chroot for me pleeease :)  - just wanna see if its a specific thing, or i've got a local issue
<persia> stefanlsd, pastebin the test case
<persia> stefanlsd, Note that my chroots were built with debootstrap --buildd which may affect things.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I've updated my draft libspf2 package.  If you could have another look it'd be greatly appreciated.
<james_w> do we have a "missing package" report that would help with knowing where we may need a transitional package?
<james_w> or would that be too noisy to be useful?
<persia> james_w, debcheck has a list of broken dependencies, which may help identify that.
<slytherin> persia: does that --buildd option replicate our build servers?
<ScottK> james_w: I think it's an excellent idea.  We do have a generic problem of people getting left with orphaned packages on upgrades.
<persia> slytherin, No, it replicates hypothetical buildds.
<james_w> I'm sure we miss loads for LTS->LTS
<james_w> I'll try and work on it some time
<stefanlsd> persia: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/58804/   (although its a potential 20mb download - so if thats an issue, its ok - will find another way to test!)
<ScottK> james_w: Now is the time to start working on it to be ready for the next LTS -> LTS.
<slytherin> james_w: have you taken look at broken depends report?
<persia> stefanlsd, No issues: I have plenty of bandwidth.
<james_w> slytherin: the debcheck one on ubuntuwire?
<persia> stefanlsd, which arch?
<stefanlsd> persia: x86
<slytherin> james_w: yes, that one
<james_w> slytherin: yeah, but this is something slightly different I think
<james_w> slytherin: or am I missing something?
<persia> stefanlsd, You understated the download : it's 268MB for me.
<stefanlsd> persia: aah. sorry.  i guess you could do --nodeps.  really only wanna see if the debconf runs
<persia> stefanlsd, No worries : I just need a few extra minutes.
<stefanlsd> heh. i need to get out of SA :)
<morgs> stefanlsd: or wait a few years for all that bandwidth to reach the last mile... :)
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Move to NZ for a while and then move back and bandwidth in ZA will seem wonderful.
 * RainCT reminds that there's a voting about REVU Days on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5925205
<stefanlsd> ScottK: really. Didnt think it was bad in NZ...
<slytherin> james_w: What I am saying is you can look into broken depends for important packages and see if something is dropped as compared to hardy. Not an automated task though.
 * ScottK reminds RainCT that most developers don't really use the forums.
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Dunno.  I"ve never been there, but ajmitch is always whining about so ..
<persia> I've sent lots of packets there : it's not only limited, but high-latency and congested.
<ScottK> stefanlsd: I just had the need to deal with dpkg-gensymbols.  Your wiki page was very helpful.  Thank you for putting that together.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: aah. great!  hope it was somewhat accurate. will propose to dholbach that it be moved to Motu Recipes or similair
<ScottK> I'll find out after sistpoty|work gives the package a once over.
<stefanlsd> i asked sistpoty and slangasek - and they did a brief overview and said it looked ok..
<persia> stefanlsd, I'm getting prompted by debconf for the MySQL password.
<stefanlsd> persia: aah. kk. thanks. so its local to my pbuilder. sigh
<persia> stefanlsd, It might also be pbuilder itself.
<stefanlsd> i wonder if this warrants tring out sbuild
<stefanlsd> persia: aah. ok. got it.  its in .pbuilderrc
<stefanlsd> persia: export DEBIAN_FRONTEND="readline"   - which now prompts in readline, and i assume  "dialog" will use dialog
<persia> Should.
<stefanlsd> yeah, it does :)
<stefanlsd> persia: thanks for helping me test!
<persia> stefanlsd, Thanks for chasing the issue.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work, TheMuso, DktrKranz, and the absent norsetto: Release Team meeting in ~ an hour.  Anything I should bring up?
<stefanlsd> heading home, cya guys later :)
<ScottK> ^^^ Applies to anyone else too.
<persia> ScottK, -rt is just undergoing final testing, and is expected to upload tomorrow (unless someone objects).  I'm not sure if that's worth a mention.
<ScottK> persia: You mean the -rt kernel?  If so there's an outstanding action from the last meeting on the topic.
<persia> ScottK, Indeed there is.
<persia> On the other hand, I do want to wait for both DktrKranz and TheMuso to complete any testing they want to do as well.
<ScottK> I'll toss it in with a tentative 'tomorrow'.
<persia> Mind you, if pgraner mentions it, there's no need.
<ScottK> Universe comes after Kernel, so it'll be clear.
<RainCT> (Is anyone here subscribed to the mod_python devel list?)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<NCommander> StevenK, still around?
 * NCommander is back from work for the moment
<StevenK> NCommander: Barely
<StevenK> NCommander: Did that test work?
<NCommander> StevenK, yes
<StevenK> NCommander: Excellent.
<NCommander> StevenK, I just need to fix the descriptions, and the patch can land
<StevenK> NCommander: We pretty much had to pre-empt you, sorry
<NCommander> StevenK, huh?
<NCommander> StevenK, you committed my in-progress patch?
<NCommander> StevenK, well, its not a big deal, the control files can easily be changed after the fact
<NCommander> StevenK, what was the rush?
 * persia suspects UTC+11
<StevenK> NCommander: It's 1:45am, and we'd like to fix the kernel
<NCommander> StevenK, its been broken for the rest of the cycle, why couldn't it wait a few more hours ;-)
<persia> NCommander, Actually, no, the binaries have only been broken for ~12 hours.
<NCommander> Oh?
<persia> The source was broken, but it accidentally worked.
<NCommander> o_o;
<StevenK> NCommander: Because 1) It's been working with -3, and 2) Due to other circumstances, -mid is unable to be installed due to the -di binaries being removed
<NCommander> Ok, that makes sense
<persia> So everything needs to be in tip-top shape for the daily image build at ~ 2:30 UTC+1
<NCommander> persia, the patch hasn't been committed
 * NCommander notes there is a minor typoish issue with the control description, but that can be changed without breaking the world
<StevenK> There is?
<StevenK> NCommander: Move the discussion to -devel, so amitk can join in?
<NCommander> StevenK, the description issue you noted
<StevenK> NCommander: amitk and I already fixed that
<NCommander> StevenK, score :-)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I'll review the package once I'm home from work (probably at ~19 UTC), ok?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Yes.  That'd be great.  I'm going to give the Debian maintainer until tomorrow to respond in any case.
<sistpoty|work> ok
<slytherin> any idea how long does it take for Debian developers to respond to a RFS request?
<ScottK> slytherin: Somewhere between one hour and never.
<maestrolinux> http://s2.ar.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=19732
<RainCT> -.-
<laga> idiot.
<RainCT> laga: gmta :P
<laga> RainCT: gmta?
<sevenseeker> Great Minds Think Alike
<laga> ah.
<slytherin> ScottK: Ok. Do they usually respond for ping over IM?
<ScottK> It varies
<x1250> hi guys, can pbuilder be used before using debuild if no .dsc file is present (like in a new package) ?
<persia> x1250, You want to use debuild -S to generate a source package, and pbuilder to convert the source package into a binary package.
<x1250> persia, ok, thanks
<ScottK> wgrant: I see you milestoned bug 250425.  Are you fixing it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250425 in zsnes "zsnes crashes with buffer overflow on startup" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250425
<persia> it's 3:33 there, so it may be some time before an answer is available
<ScottK> No rush.
 * sistpoty|work decides to go home... cya
<x1250> should I attempt to fix any of this? (3 lines paste)
<x1250> E: inkscape_0.46.svn20001_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file intrepid
<x1250> W: inkscape source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<x1250> W: inkscape source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.46.svn20001
<persia> x1250, No.
<x1250> persia, ok, thanks
<persia> x1250, Actually, yes, but not by doing what lintian says.  Change the version to 0.46.svn20001-0ubuntu0+ppa1 or something.
<persia> That should make them all go away.
<x1250> thanks :)
<nxvl> jcastro: ping
<nxvl> mneptok: nice title for a talk :P
<jcastro> nxvl: yo
<nxvl> jcastro: is there any page where i can add more information about my talk (the title doesn't say much about what i want to talk)
<jcastro> nxvl: probably wouldn't hurt to add a description section at the bottom or something.
<jcastro> nxvl: I'm in the middle of something at the moment but feel free to add a section or whatever you think is appropriate
<nxvl> jcastro: ok, thank you
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Any MOTU to sponsor bug #284629?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284629 in taskjuggler "[Intrepid] Support for kde dropped from Taskjuggler" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284629
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Isn't it uploaded already? http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/taskjuggler/2.4.1-1ubuntu3
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: you're right. The strange thing is that the bug is not in Fix Released or Fix Commited
<ScottK> Did you mark it in debia/changelog?
<fabrice_sp> ok: my fault. I forgot the LP bug number in the changelog
 * ScottK runs off. See you later.
<fabrice_sp> exactly
<fabrice_sp> CU
<sevenseeker> does the Release.gpg on PPAs get periodically rebuilt, automatically?  I ask because frequently apt-get reports that file is missing (and I confirm with wget and FF)
<directhex> no
<directhex> it doesn't get rebuilt, or built, ever. PPAs are not signed
<sevenseeker> ah
<ScottK> Which, IMO, is a good reason not to use them.
<sevenseeker> I wonder why suddenly my packages are not showing up (they did a few days ago)
<sevenseeker> any ideas what changed, if I didn't knowingly change anything on my end?
<sevenseeker> and is it possible to manually sign packages for a PPA, perhaps even TTW?
<sevenseeker> hmmm, now it is suddenly working... I am confused ;)
<fabrice_sp> james_w: about Bug #284786. I updated the bug, but basically, I tested that this extension is working at high level (preferences, shortcuts, mail copy, ...). Is it enough?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284786 in icedove-nostalgy "icedove-nostalgy: Depends: icedove (>= 1.5) but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284786
<persia> fabrice_sp, If it installs and works with the existing tools, you're probably OK.
<fabrice_sp> persia: ok. So it will be one less package with unmet dependencies in Intrepid :-) 65 left for amd64 (after upload by a MOTU)
<persia> fabrice_sp, Nice work.  WIth 5 days left until freeze, you only have about 13 a day :)
<fabrice_sp> persia: lol Most of them are linked to gambas2. Is someone working on them?
<persia> fabrice_sp, I'm not sure.  Check bug assignments, or ask here (generally, rather than to someone specific).
<fabrice_sp> persia: my intention was to ask globally, not just to you (some pb with Enter key). I'll check bug assigments. Thanks
<persia> Good luck.
<sevenseeker> I have specified EMAIL, DEBEMAIL, DEBFULLNAME, and NAME in my ~/.devscripts file, but when I run dch, it uses 'username@<fqdn>', do I need to enable something in /etc/devscripts.conf?
<persia> sevenseeker, I believe that's a known bug.  Try putting them in .bashrc and starting a new shell.
<slytherin> sevenseeker: Not sure if specifying it in ~/.devscripts help. But Ihave it set as environment variable.
<persia> Personally, I just set DEBEMAIL to "NAME <email>" and it works for me.
<persia> (althoguh I don't do this in my shell RC file)
<sevenseeker> ok, will do
<sevenseeker> thanks!
<slytherin> wow, configuring vpn is so easy with network manager now.
<mneptok> nxvl: money is a precious thing, sadly.
<nxvl> yup
<DktrKranz> persia, just installing -rt flavour, I'll reboot in some minutes and do some tests
<nxvl> mneptok: btw, i'm buying a psp so we can play in our cigarrette breaks at UDS ;)
<DktrKranz> nxvl, stop smoking ;)
<nxvl> yeah, i probably won't :P
<slytherin> isn't there any law in US which bans smoking in public space?
<slytherin> public place I mean.
<DktrKranz> get some good wine instead, it kills you better than smoking cigarettes
<nxvl> slytherin: i don't live in the US
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> i don't like wine
<slytherin> nxvl: but UDS is going to be in US right?
<nxvl> here are or bad or expensive
<nxvl> slytherin: yes, but they have smoking areas everywhere
<nxvl> slytherin: you can't smoke outside them
<nxvl> slytherin: but you can around them
<slytherin> hmm, that is fine then. unless you carry the smell with you everywhere.
<nxvl> you do, but is not as bad as someone smoking on your side
<slytherin> well, I do get headache with even the smell. But then probably it is just me.
<mneptok> nxvl: AFAIK, no UDS for me.
<cody-somerville> slytherin, No, I'm allergic as well
 * slytherin adds 'no smoking banners' to his plan for UDS in India. :-P
<zul> i wouldnt mind going to india
<slytherin> zul: wow, that makes 3 supporters. :-)
<nxvl> slytherin: 4!
<nxvl> i will still try to make UDS in Peru
<slytherin> :-)
<nxvl> so i don't need to take a plane and you all get the long trip
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> mneptok: :(
<zul> nxvl: no thats ok
<nxvl> zul: south america is cool
<zul> nxvl: easy access to drugs ;)
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> that too
<nxvl> and cheap
<directhex> isle of man!
<iulian> Scotland!
<fabrice_sp> One question about gambas2: I miss gambas2-runtime from repository for amd64 (no package exist), but i've just comiled the package in a pbuilder environment. How can I see the build of gambas2 package?
<fabrice_sp> s/comiled/compiled/
<fabrice_sp> (the official one, I mean)
<persia> There's a link from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gambas
<fabrice_sp> persia: This link is for gambas, not for gambas2 ;-)  In the web page for gambas2-runtime (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+package/gambas2-runtime), there is no link for amd64
<persia> fabrice_sp, Check the source : perhaps it's not compiled for amd64.
<fabrice_sp> persia: will do. Thanks
<persia> fabrice_sp, It's commented out in P-a-s.  Check the changelog : as it's blocked on alpha, ia64, amd64, and ppc64, I suspect there's some 64-bit issue involved.
<persia> (cf. http://cvs.debian.org/srcdep/Packages-arch-specific?rev=1.776&root=dak&view=markup)
<fabrice_sp> persia: you're right. From the link you sent me: # ANAIS - no 64-bit support until gambas3
<persia> fabrice_sp, That drops a bunch off the list then :)
<fabrice_sp> Yes! :-)
<fabrice_sp> Anyway, as it compiled successfully, I'll check if I'm able to run it :-)
<fabrice_sp> Hehehe: gambas2 is working on amd64 (just ran several examples), so how do I request gambas2 to be build also for amd64?
<persia> fabrice_sp, Check the upstream changelog *carefully* to make sure something changes related to 64-bits.
<fabrice_sp> persia: in February, the version 2.1.0 became 64bit aware, and there are several fixes on 64bits problems until June. I think that archive is not up-to-date because of first version of gambas2 not being 64bit compatible
<persia> Hrm.  2.1.0-1 seems to claim to be 64-bit compatible, but it reports it closes Debian bug #464403, which is confusing.  Is this just a bad changelog entry?
<ubottu> Debian bug 464403 in gambas2 "gambas2: Build depends on ancient libqt3-compat-headers" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/464403
<persia> fabrice_sp, Looks like the last gambas related change to P-a-s was r1.680 in May 2007, so I think you're right.
<fabrice_sp> yes: it's not clear, but in the upstream changelog, it's quite clear that it's 64 bit compatible
<fabrice_sp> * NEW: 64 bits port.
<fabrice_sp> and in later version, you'll find fix for problems with 64 bits lib not in lib64
<homy> Hello, I have a question about debian packages:
<persia> homy, Which one?
<homy> How can I make my package associate the files "*.ext" with its program on installation?
<homy> I mean, something like automatically adding a menu entry in Applications, just with file type associations.
<persia> homy, Read the freedesktop.org spec on .desktop files, especially the section about Mime-Type: and update your .desktop file.
<homy> persia: but my file type is not a mime-type, it is a normal textfile with the mime type "text/plain", its just the extension that distinguishes it.
<persia> homy, Well, then you've a bit of an issue.  You could define text/x-my-special-app, perhaps?
<homy> persia: I don't think that's necessary. It's just a small game with the corresponding level files. Can't I just associate files with programs according to the file extensions?
<persia> No.
<homy> thats bad.
<persia> Defining a Mime type is easy, and it then works with *all* the tools smoothly.  It's how we differentiate files.
<homy> persia: how does nautilus now which file has which mimetype? I mean, my level files are normal text files, they don't have a special header, so how should nautilus be able to find the correct mimetype?
<persia> You can use the extension as one of the ways to hint the mime type in the mime type definition.
<homy> persia: so it comes back to looking at the extension, I just have to define a new mime-type in order for that to work.
<homy> what does the application "file" do then? Does it determine the mime type or does it only look at the content of the file?
<persia> homy, You've two steps : first define an experimental Mime Type for your savegame files, then create a .desktop file that says that your game is the tool to be used to open these files.
<homy> persia: ok
<persia> File uses the magic number system to identify the type of the file, which may or may not be related to the Mime Type.
<persia> (the magic number system used to be mit-magic-number, and predates MIME by several years)
<homy> persia: so if I defined a new mime type for my level files ending in ".ext", "file" would still determine the level files as "text/plain" and not "text/x-mylevelfile"?
<persia> homy, file will probably call them "ASCII text".  The type defined by the magic number has only a loose relationship to the Mime Type (although the magic number can be used as one of the matching factors when defining a Mime Type).
<homy> persia: ok. How do I add a new mime type? Can you give me a link or something? I can't find anything with a search engine
<homy> ok, I think I did find something. Is http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/AddingMIMETutor?action=show&redirect=Standards%2FAddingMIMETutor correct?
<persia> Yep.  That'd be the spec you want.
<homy> persia: do I have to add "update-mime-database" to the postinst script in order for the mime type to be recognized after installation?
<homy> and similarly also in the postrm script in order for the mime type to be forgotten after deinstalltion?
<persia> If you're using debhelper, just add dh_desktop in debian/rules to take care of that for you.
<persia> homy, You probably also want to read http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/mime-policy/
<homy> In that link it says "update-mime", in the freedesktop spec it says "update-mime-database". Both commands exist on my install. Which is correct?
<persia> Both.  They update different MIME databases (yes this is confusing)
<homy> so I have to run both. - or let dh_desktop run both.
<homy> In what target do I put dh_desktop in rules?
<persia> I usually put it in binary-arch I think.
<persia> I may be misremembering.
<persia> Hmm.  dh_desktop calls update-desktop-database actually, but I think that calls update-mime-database or something.
<persia> There's also dh_installmime which would take care of the update-mime bit.
<persia> Anyone around for the MOTU Meeting?  I think it's on, but there's no traffic in -meeting.
<homy> persia: ok, so I need only need dh_desktop.
<homy> Thanks for your help.
<persia> homy, No, you want both dh_desktop and dh_installmime.  Good luck.
<homy> thanks.
<homy> persia: so I don't have to touch postinst and postrm, right?
<persia> homy, Not if you let debhelper do it for you.
<ivoks> lol
<persia> (also known as the easy way)
<ivoks> i've actually found a job offering
<ivoks> request: good knowledge of ubuntu server
<ivoks> uf... wrong channel :)
<persia> ivoks, Neat!
<persia> Well, it's nifty here anyway, although there is probably more likely to generate an successful application :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> bye :)
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Feature Freeze:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC
<wgrant> ScottK: I was going to, but haven't ended up having time.
<jrib> python-webkitgtk is unusable.  svn fails to build as well, but I've patched that and am about to submit the patch upstream.  At this point, can I do anything to get a working python-webkitgtk into intrepid before it is released?
<wgrant> jrib: If it's completely broken at the moment, there is a good chance a patch would be accepted to fix it.
<persia> jrib, Document the unusablity in a bug.  Attach the smallest possible patch to make it actually do something.  Subscribe the sponsors.  Maybe say something here.
<wgrant> As there's not much regression potential from something not working.
<jrib> wgrant: good point.  wgrant, persia: thanks
<persia> wgrant, My only fear with big patches to make things work is that they may break in other ways: I'd generally prefer to have something stable with a specific known problem that could be addressed via SRU once a solution is found than something shiny for which we don't know the bugs, and may end up with odd unexpected issues.
<Laney> Is there anyone from motu-sru around? Can I poke you to bug #280129?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280129 in ghc6 "Please SRU ghc6 in Hardy to fix correctness bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280129
<Laney> Also motu-council people: Can I request that your minutes actually include summaries of the discussions? They're largely pointless as just an agenda.
<persia> Laney, Compare to the minutes of the non-public deliberations of any of the other councils.  Which would you prefer?
<Laney> persia: I don't know what other councils do, I was just suggesting that more information would be welcome
<persia> Laney, Most of the councils have a private mailing list and a public IRC meeting.  The minutes and logs of the IRC meetings are available.  The contents of the mailing lists are not.
<persia> To date, MOTU Council has worked the other way, under the assumption that it's better that any issues raised are seen, and all decisions are taken on the mailing list.  The minutes of the weekly meetings are mostly just to inform what things are being discussed so people can complain if there is some issue they want discussed that was not dicsussed.
<Laney> persia: Bullet point 2 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council
<Laney> ;)
<persia> Laney, Yes.  The actions and processes are.  The actual content of some discussion is not.  Would you rather you weren't informed which discussions were occuring (as happens for other councils)
<Laney> Well knowing that a discussion takes place adds some information, but I'm not sure that it's enough to be called transparent, and I'm not sure that we should be influenced by precedent set by other councils. I'd just like to see a short summary of what was discussed for each point - I'm in no way suggesting that you shouldn't be able to redact information if you feel doing so is appropriate.
<persia> Hrm.  Maybe.  Current practice is that no decision can be taken in a private IRC meeting : it's just a discussion forum to avoid conflict in other actions.
<persia> Bascially, it grew out of previous /privmsgs and private email that happened between council members about various things.
<persia> I thought this was more open, and actually prefer to post unredacted agendas than redacted detailed minutes.
<persia> If there's any actual decision or consensus, it will certainly be shared, but based on bullet points 3 & 4, the MOTU meeting that happened 80 minutes ago (with zero attendance) has a lot more impact on MOTU policy than any deliberations of MC.
<emgent> heya
<ajmitch> persia: was the MOTU meeting announced?
<ScottK> wgrant: Then please either unmilestone the bug (later) or find the time ....
<persia> So, if there's something you want to see, or change, or discuss: please bring it to a MOTU Meeting.  That's the decision forum.
<persia> ajmitch, It was in the topic.  I don't think anyone sent any email.
<wgrant> ScottK: Doing so.
<ajmitch> right, the topic which would be too long to fit on my screen
<ajmitch> and lurkers like me don't see it getting changed
<ScottK> wgrant: It also got mentioned at the release meeting that there were a number of unfixed security bugs in Universe.  You wouldn't happen to have a list, would you?
<persia> Next one is 31st October, 4:00 UTC.  I might send an email about it tomorrow if nobody else does, as the lack of attendance or agendas at MOTU meetings combined with the long and fractured discussions on the mailing lists are annoying me.
 * ajmitch won't attend that one
<wgrant> ScottK: We have hundreds... take your pick. There is a fairly easy way to generate a nice HTML list from ubuntu-cve-tracker. I'll whip one up later.
<persia> too late in the day?
<jdong> note to self: don't unload the usbhid modules to reset a quirky mouse
<ajmitch> persia: 5pm on a friday? :)
<ScottK> wgrant: Please and then send mail to the Ubuntu ML to get people focused.  Just the Intrepid ones.
<persia> ajmitch, Clearly the perfect time for a meeting :)
<wgrant> jdong: I do that all the time... but I have an && sudo modprobe afterwards.
<jdong> wgrant: yea yeah minor details....
<ajmitch> persia: not at my workplace :)
<Laney> 5pm Friday is clearly pub time!
<persia> ajmitch, yeah, well.  I live in the land of éå´æ­»
<Laney> I think announcements 7 and 1 day before MOTU meetings could be useful
<Laney> 7 days - add your agenda items now
<Laney> 1 day - reminder that it's happening
<persia> That was the guideline, but the assigned person at one meeting didn't do that, and there haven't been many useful meetings since, and nobody has been so assigned.
<persia> Like I said, this is starting to annoy me, so I may well do that this time.
<wgrant> How long is it since we've had a meeting?
<persia> A useful meeting?
<wgrant> A meeting where there were attendees and an agenda.
<persia> Last useful meeting was the one where we decided to use the *still not documented* decision process involving sending stuff to the mailing lsits.
 * ScottK hides
<persia> ScottK, Don't worry about it.  I'm planning to relieve you of the responsibility for documenting it in about a fortnight.
<ScottK> Kewl.
<ScottK> Procrastination pays.
<persia> Well, that or perhaps that which is incomplete gets cancelled.  We'll see at the meeting.
<persia> In any case, regardless of the decision, I expect your support in getting someone else assigned to document it.
<ScottK-laptop> persia: I confess I'd forgotten.  Shoot me a wiki link on where it goes and I'll do it right now.
<persia> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meeting I think.
 * ScottK-laptop looks
<persia> Of course, I'm not that excited about you doing it now, as it adds to the number of emails I need to both read and write in the next couple weeks.
<ScottK-laptop> ;-)
<persia> So, if you feel like putting it off another couple weeks, feel free :)
<ScottK-laptop> I'll blame wiki editing with Konqueror (and basically any non-gecko browser) being broken for a month.
<persia> That's not a good excuse.  What about the couple months before that?
<persia> But like I said, it shouldn't matter : the current state of things is *far* too broken to continue.
<persia> Not that I want lots of change, but rather I'd like not to have people expecting any meaning out of MC meetings.
<ScottK-laptop> Right, well not having the process written down certainly hasn't been helpful.
<ScottK-laptop> How about MOTU/Policy (it's bigger than meetings) <-- Persia
<ScottK-laptop> Or persia ^^^ on the off chance that's case sensitive for you...
<persia> Nah.  I've a fairly flexible alert system, although annoyingly the audibility broke.
<persia> Doesn't really matter where you put it.  Just make sure it's *really* easy to find from MOTU/Meetings, and be prepared to adjust/change it in two weeks.
<persia> Since we've not had a useful MOTU Meeting since it was introduced, I am very suspicious of it being healthy.
<persia> Not that I think it's bad to solicit more opinions, just that it only got used once, and badly at that.
<persia>  And the final decision ended up being made the same way it was made before, except it took twice as long.
<ScottK-laptop> Except the one that took twice as long, I don't think we've had any decisions wanting.
<persia> I suppose, but there's surely been things worth discussing.
<persia> Most of the "decisions" of MOTU Meetings were about relatively insignficant stuff, or planning/coordination things.
<persia> None of these have been happening, which leaves us where we are now.  There are other factors, of course.  I don't blame this all on the lack of meetings.
<RainCT> persia: mail reminders, mail reminders, mail reminders :)
<ScottK> persia: Documented and on the agenda for the next meeting.
<RainCT> good night
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-18
<persia> ScottK, Excellent.  Thanks.
<LimCore> elkbuntu: well I responded to all arguments presented in a logic way, if you fell otherwise, fell free to say which ones you think where not clear and we can find a solution :)
 * LimCore hopes this channel is correct for discussion of developing apps for ubuntu
<Hobbsee> LimCore: how much data corruption actually occurs, on ext3, in ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> that you've found bug reports for?
<LimCore> ok, I will sacrafice my brand new interpid install to test it
 * LimCore notices that laptop is not the best test tool for power-outage... but searches for battery slot
<Hobbsee> i thought you said you were using XFS?
<LimCore> as I said, form what I heared the problem would be most visible of XFS; I also said that I seen such corruption in ext3, but long ago.  Currently I use ext3 and jfs
<Hobbsee> i didn't ask about xfs.  I asked about the one we ship by default, and almost all users use.
<LimCore> yes, therefore Im going to test ext3, right?
<Hobbsee> good
<jdong> it is almost entirely an XFS problem
<jdong> XFS journals too tersely and takes the disk too seriously when it says something is written
<LimCore> jdong: as I written 3 times so far in last 15 minutes,   I had ext3 corruptions (serious one) on ext3
<jdong> furthermore I should point out that XFS zeroes incomplete transaction datablocks rather than keeping stale (and most of the time probably correct) data, which can make corruption more apparent
<jdong> LimCore: what kind of corruption?
<LimCore> jdong: I will test again now
<jdong> I asked what kind of corruption.
<LimCore> lost files
<LimCore> *afair* even from dirs that where not at all written to like /usr (but perhaps atime was written)
<ion_> Why is everybody badmouthing XF\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0
<LimCore> any existing tool for this?
<LimCore> write lots of files with known content, then start swapping them around etc
<jdong> ion_: :D
<jdong> well you can use bonnie++ or mongrel (whatever Reiser's metadata thrasher is called)
<LimCore> but I found it strange to prove to you that pulling out power cable can indeed corrupt the FS (not just the file that was actually written to, because this is obvious)
<LimCore> Hobbsee: kid using computer is the only reason to not like the power off button?
<Hobbsee> LimCore: well, the general complaint about "lock screen" doesn't actually do that anymore is.
<LimCore> that is another of my bugs
 * LimCore have a bug for every ocassion \o/
<Hobbsee> yeah, it's closer to lock session, i guess.
<LimCore> Hobbsee: for about 1.5+ year lockscreen is broken: in some cases it shows what is on the desktop
<jdong> LimCore: that bug has been fixed as far as I know of
<Hobbsee> LimCore: ah yes, that's a propriatory driver triggered bug, no?
<Hobbsee> or has been fixed.
<LimCore> Hobbsee: mostly nvidia
<LimCore> but!
<jdong> there was one related to compiz too.
<Hobbsee> jdong: yeah, i think i saw that one for a bit.  That definetly got fixed.
<LimCore> not only.  other bug was on intell,  when one changed screen resolution.  no compiz.  the black rectangle blocked only the small part of screen,  if resolution was switched in some way like grandr
<LimCore> 1 year ago. dunno if fixed.
<jdong> if the screen resolution was changed... while the screensaver is active?
<LimCore> btw... black rectangle... imho this is really braindead approach to locking the screen O__o
<Hobbsee> never saw that one.
<LimCore> jdong: no, before it was activated
<Hobbsee> LimCore: surely you'll have to talk to upstream about that.
<jdong> LimCore: that is how every operating system locks the screen.
<jdong> by drawing a fullscreen overlay on top of it
<LimCore> well, then they are all braindead
<LimCore> obvious appraoch would be, at least to me
<jdong> except Windows, which uses its output redirection capabilities of terminal services to connect to the LSASS login prompt
<Hobbsee> would be to go talk to upstream about it.
<LimCore> 1) clear entire screen / "video memory"   2) NOT draw anything
<jdong> LimCore: that's complete nonsense
<Hobbsee> again, this is not on topic for here - we do not create X, etc, here.
<LimCore> heh Hobbsee you really keep interrupting constructive discussions today :)  ok then, jdong talk to me in ##linux or ##c++ if you want about this
<jdong> I am not really interested
<jdong> I don't feel such a conversation would be more productive than what I am currently working on
<Hobbsee> LimCore: not constructive for packaging things already made, sorry.
<LimCore> ok, for another time then
<Hobbsee> LimCore: and things that happen only sometimes on XFS aren't release critical.  That's the way it is, i'm afraid.
<Hobbsee> But fix ti for jaunty.  That'd actually be helpful.
<ion_> I fail to understand how users randomly pulling the power plug is more important a use case than e.g. users randomly throwing the computer out of the window. Power supply problems? Get a UPS. Kids meddling with the computer? Restrict their access.
<LimCore> ion_: you didnt apparently read the bug report we are refering to?
<jdong> well not to say that filesystem integrity isn't an area that we can improve on as an operating system...
<jdong> but it's not something that's logical to waste the time discussing while we have more than enough work on our plate to push intrepid out in one piece!
<LimCore> ok Im totally dissapointed in this.  I will just make my tests and my patch.
<Hobbsee> good.
<slangasek> I propose that we push intrepid out in three pieces that reassemble themselves once they're out
<jdong> slangasek: doesn't that .torrent file thing already do that?
<Hobbsee> slangasek: before or after defenestrating themselves?
<slangasek> jdong: oh, then I guess my idea is unoriginal
<LimCore> btw, you are still aiming at 2008-10-30 ? O_o
<Hobbsee> LimCore: yes...
<jdong> slangasek: but I think another distro beat you at what you actually meant: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2009.0_Errata
<LimCore> as software manager I would rate it as impossible, looking at KDE state... but.  Can one test easly?
<jdong> that is either the most brutally honest errata list or one rushed cycle :)
<LimCore> I didnt seen a clear easy to use wiki page on how to run 100% automated smoke test?
<Hobbsee> LimCore: which is precisely *why* these channels arekept more or less on topic, closer to release, and we don't allow random rants in either channel.
<slangasek> jdong: hmm?  how is mandriva what I meant? :)
<jdong> slangasek: the whole push it out the door in a couple pieces and post assembly instructions later idea :)
<LimCore> wouldn't it be better to make wait +1 month
<slangasek> ah
<jdong> LimCore: no
<jdong> you can make that argument for an endless stream of bugs.
 * LimCore buys 1 container of coffee
<LimCore> when is deadline of accepting patches?
<jdong> depends on the nature of the patch
<jdong> but extremely soon.
<LimCore> like, 2 days?
<Hobbsee> you've probably got slightly longer than that.
<Hobbsee> but, the longer you pushit, the less chance you've got of it being accepted.
<nixternal> so what is on the agenda this evening?
<Hobbsee> nixternal: bug fixing!
<jdong> world domination
<nixternal> eww boogs :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.importance%3Alist=CRITICAL&field.importance%3Alist=HIGH and such
<nixternal> holy smokes, tinyurl rocks!
<nixternal> ;p
<Hobbsee> nixternal: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search too
<Hobbsee> (the first is a subset of the second)
<YokoZar> Wine just made a very minor release today (1.0.1), designed to have just minimal patches and remain stable (most of the patches are translation fixes)...would it be appropriate to upload it to Intrepid now, rather than SRUing it in a couple weeks anyway?
<jdong> meh it's Wine, I don't personally see how it would hurt to follow upstream's latest releases available
<Hobbsee> YokoZar: er...have you had this in a PPA / tested it yourself / etc?
<jdong> (I don't have any release management capacities though)
<Hobbsee> YokoZar: assuming that the answer to the above is "yes", then i'd assume it should be fine.
<Hobbsee> YokoZar: if it's features only, it won't even need a ffw
<Hobbsee> er, ffe
<Hobbsee> emgent: when are you planning on fixing https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/fetchmail/+bug/240549 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240549 in fetchmail "fetchmail denial of service CVE-2008-2711" [Unknown,Fix released]
<Hobbsee> emgent: it's probably easier to fix it before release than after.
<YokoZar> jdong: Wine's been in a "stable/unstable" branch mode since 1.0 came out.  Shipping latest beta would cause regressions...but latest stable shouldn't
<ajmitch> many people that rely on wine probably use your other packages anyway :)
<nixternal> I rely on beer, not wine!
 * Hobbsee wonders how the sponsorship queue is going.
<Hobbsee> !ffe
<ubottu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<Hobbsee> !5-a-day
<ubottu> 5-a-day is a community event where each person will take 5 bugs a day and work on them. Everyone is invited to help no matter your abilities! More information available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day
<LimCore> is there something to *report* N-bugs-a-day? I would totally win
<Hobbsee> LimCore: no.  you have to actually fix them.
<Hobbsee> LimCore: actually, i think there is.  it's called brainstorm.
<wgrant> I think I can win at N-launchpad-bugs-a-day
<wgrant> I filed 15 once.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: ROFL
<Hobbsee> but that's more for ranting, rather than actual bugs that you want to get fixed
<LimCore> brainstorm: where you can fill in brillaint ideas!  vote for them \o/ !  and finally....  do nothing about them.
<Hobbsee> yeah, pretty much
<Hobbsee> and hope tha tsomeone else does
 * ajmitch votes that Hobbsee replace the archive with checkinstall & alien
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: argh.  Now you *have* to help fix bugs.
<NCommander> wgrant, I had a 12 task SRU :-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: or else...?
<wgrant> NCommander: gnat-4.2?
<NCommander> wgrant, yup
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢ might come out
<NCommander> !hobbsee Hobbsee
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about hobbsee hobbsee
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> !hobbsee
<ubottu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
<ajmitch> sure, if you feel like visiting NZ
<Hobbsee> right.  10 bugs done today.
<LimCore> canonical should introduce 10 usd donation-licence thingy, and use that to pay devels
<wgrant> !ncommander
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ncommander
<wgrant> Damn.
<NCommander> I know :-/
<StevenK> LimCore: Um. Ow.
<wgrant> You have no factoid yet :(
<NCommander> I feel so unloved
<ajmitch> !wgrant
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about wgrant
<NCommander> !wgrant
<wgrant> Bah.
<NCommander> Oh
<Hobbsee> !msgthebot
<ubottu> Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubottu Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubottu !search factoid".
<NCommander> lol
<StevenK> I don't think I have one either
<ajmitch> you're not the only unloved one
<wgrant> Mine used to be an alias for !nixternal
<StevenK> Haha
<NCommander> !nixternal
<ubottu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
<NCommander> O_O;
<wgrant> (I've never actually used Vista)
 * NCommander has
<Hobbsee> nixternal: how many bugs have you fixed today?
 * StevenK has :-/
<nixternal> I have..you aren't missing a damn thing
<LimCore> wgrant: did you use Mojave?
<nixternal> Hobbsee: to many, but they have been for work and not here
<wgrant> LimCore: No, but I hear it's very good.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: oh well, get to it.
<nixternal> I am setting up my development environment now so I can do some work here
 * nixternal wonders how many hard drives have to fail before dell gets it through their thick skull
<Hobbsee> interesting.  soyuz borks if there's not a legitimate email address in debian/changelog
<StevenK> Sounds right
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Of course. It mails it, so it needs it to be valid.
<StevenK> Like, correct behaviour
<LimCore> 1. brainstorm
<LimCore> 2. community voting
<LimCore> 3. ..voting with donations (like vim)
<LimCore> 4. PROFIT
<nixternal> 5. WORLD DOMINATION
<LimCore> and use that for x2 bigger team and make 8.10 on time \o/
<nixternal> though #4 is good
<wgrant> 8.10 will be on time...
<Hobbsee> wgrant: i'd not tried it before...
<wgrant> I'd seen somebody do it once.
<wgrant> It used to silently reject.
<LimCore> to make 8.10 on time easly
<wgrant> Not even email the signer.
<wgrant> LimCore: It can't be late, so therefore it will be on time.
<Hobbsee> right, there we go.
<LimCore> interpid have video distortions (shows random noise instead texture in time to time)
<LimCore> and if you run serveral opengl programs like amoeba --nosound --windowed & then it shows more quircks, then freezes (no limit on mem usage?).  report?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Some MOTU willing to sponsor bug #284786?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284786 in icedove-nostalgy "icedove-nostalgy: Depends: icedove (>= 1.5) but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284786
<fabrice_sp> (for Intrepid)
<Hobbsee> how do users not manage to have a /boot/grub?
<Hobbsee> hm, unless they're running lilo, i guess
<StevenK> Right
<StevenK> Or aren't on x86 hardware
<LimCore> when reporting a bug, the it-affects-me-also flag should be ON by default.  where to report this?
<jdong> malone.
<jdong> but it's kind of pointless
<jdong> we know the bug affects the original reporter
<wgrant> There are at least two bugs filed on that issue.
<jdong> fabrice_sp: looking at nostalgy...
<fabrice_sp> jdong: great. Thanks!
<Hobbsee> LimCore: #launchpad forall launchpad stuff.
<LimCore> I once said that installing  sshd  should really strongly warn that you are about to run an ssh SERVER.  Its up for debate, but if we agree, then the fix is trivial
<wgrant> We don't agree.
<wgrant> And even if we do, it's not for this channel.
<LimCore> then which one
<Hobbsee> and not this close to release.
<Hobbsee> it's not a release critical bug, therefore is extremely unlikely to get fixed.
<jdong> when I install a package called openssh-server, I expect.....
<Hobbsee> jdong: to not have to read, think, or do anythingelse.  duh.
<LimCore> your unwillingness to improve software to make it more user friendly / idiot proof a bit dissapoints me. is it just the close date of 8.10 or what
<Hobbsee> LimCore: oddly enough, yes.  Have you even heard of regressions?
<LimCore> Hobbsee: yes. ubuntu, not gentoo or debian
<jdong> what?
<wgrant> I am now officially confused.
<jdong> well, fabrice_sp, your icedove^H^H^H^Hthunderbird plugin is uploaded. :)
<Hobbsee> LimCore: presumably also advocates patching out 'rm', and other dangerous commands.
 * Hobbsee shakes head.
<jdong> they should prompt for each file
<LimCore> ubuntu is not gentoo or debian - it should make it hard for someone to shoot self in the foot.  Especially if all it takes it so use password like "bob3" and install random packages to "try out the stuff" (both happen)
<wgrant> Technical Services at uni does that on their Solaris machines.
<wgrant> So everybody ends up shooting themselves in the foot at home.
<jdong> can we move the silly discussions off to devel-discuss?
<wgrant> jdong: Heh.
<jdong> I'd actually like to use these channels for development as intended.
<fabrice_sp> jdong: greaaat! Only 53 packages left that don't install on my amd64 ;-)
<Hobbsee> jdong: me too.
 * Hobbsee waves the warning flag
<jdong> fabrice_sp: almost there... at 5-aday, that's... oh wait...
 * wgrant feels threatened.
<fabrice_sp> jdong: and as some packages are not amd64 ready, I'm sure it's a lot less on i386 ;-)
<jdong> fabrice_sp: I hope so. Thanks for taking an interest in installability tests :)
<wgrant> fabrice_sp: See http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/
<wgrant> See the Depends line in particular. Those are uninstallable.
<fabrice_sp> Actually, I'm getting the list with a command I saw here: apt-cache unmet -i | grep "^El paquete" | wc
<fabrice_sp> ("^El paquete" because of the spanish language, of course)
<jdong> a bit OT, where has imbrandon been these past few months? I feel like I'm out of the loop
<wgrant> You're no more out of the loop than others, AFAIK.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: it's even accepted.
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: do you mean that spanish language is accepted?
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: no, your package.  icedove-*
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: Ahhh. It's not the first 'icedove*' package I patch
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<fabrice_sp> to thunderbird*
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: right, but at the moment, we're in a freeze, so everything's being manually accepted.
<Hobbsee> (or manually declined)
<fabrice_sp> I thought we had a  kind of 'exception' for Universe
<fabrice_sp> for a few days
<wgrant> Yes, but it still needs to be manually pushed through.
<wgrant> The whole archive is frozen, but universe/multiverse uploads don't need an exception request - archive admins like Hobbsee just wave them through.
<fabrice_sp> So thanks to all archive admins to make that easier ;-)
<Hobbsee> you're welcome
 * NCommander hugs Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> NCommander: :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: how does https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html get updated?
<nixternal> Hobbsee: it doesn't...the desktop guide has been for a long time
<Hobbsee> nixternal: missing word, and if that's the case, can you update !multimedia please?
<jdong> is "sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/examples/install-css.sh" really our preferred way of getting CSS packages?
<jdong> doesn't that script still fetch marillat's Debian debs?
<wgrant> Is there a better way?
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: and obviously to you for approving it :-)
<Hobbsee> jdong: no, it has'nt for quite some time.
<Hobbsee> jdong: it got modified tofetch medibuntu ones.
<wgrant> Ah.
<jdong> Hobbsee: sweet, awesomeness!
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: :)
<eddyMul> I'm trying to fix LP 257724 by re-packaging xinit and making /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc executable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257724 in vnc4 "vnc4server startup script error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257724
<eddyMul> problem: initial /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc is not executable. installing my newer xinit package doesn't override xinitrc's permissions
<eddyMul> any suggestions?
<fabrice_sp> eddyMul: How are your applying the change?
<eddyMul> fabrice_sp: ... good question. I was able to make /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc executable in the .deb, but when I install the .deb into my system, the old xinitrc is not overwritten.
<eddyMul> fabrice_sp: ... good question. I was able to make "/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc" executable in the .deb, but when I install the .deb into my system, the old xinitrc is not overwritten.
<eddyMul> fabrice_sp: I use "GDebi" to "apply" the change
<G__81> I would like to be part of the Ubuntu Developer team how do i start off. I am not good at packaging stuff but could be really helpful in Bug Fixing,Testing, Documentation and Marketing . I have been a contributor to Fedora
<fabrice_sp> eddyMul: I think you should use a postinst script
<eddyMul> fabrice_sp: I'll try that! thanks
<fabrice_sp> G__81: you can begin there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<fabrice_sp> eddyMul: you're welcome
<G__81> hi fabrice_sp just correct me if i am wrong, is MOTU only for packaging ?
<fabrice_sp> G__81: No. It's all about the Universe and Multiverse repository. You can have more info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<fabrice_sp> that means: They are community members who spend their time adding, maintaining, and supporting as much as possible the software found in Universe
<fabrice_sp> (by the way, I'm not a MOTU :-) )
<G__81> so MOTU is the only way to contribute ?
<G__81> This is what the wiki says
<G__81> MOTU contributors are the people who are interested in contributing to Ubuntu and are learning how to package and work in the Ubuntu development community.
<G__81> But if i am not good at packaging or rather have not done packaging before
<fabrice_sp> no: I'm not a MOTU, and I am contributing
<G__81> then i cannot become a MOTU at all :)
<fabrice_sp> and packaging in debian world is a lot easier than in others
<fabrice_sp> there are several 'steps' before becoming a MOTU. You can have a good picture there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<G__81> fabrice_sp, Ok to introduce myself, I work on the kernel as a hobby, and contribute to fedora. I have used ubuntu but currently using Fedora 9 in my laptop. I thought i could start contributing to Ubuntu. My efforts in Fedora are not being recognized unfortunately :(
<G__81> but thats alone not the reason too
<G__81> or fedora does not have a proper system to do so. The LaunchPad is really good in that sense you get points and stuff like that but you dont have that in Fedora
<fabrice_sp> a simple way to begin is to help solving bugs
<G__81> i am also a fedora ambassador for my region
<G__81> fabrice_sp, yeah exactly
<G__81> fabrice_sp, i am very much interested in the kernel too so how easy is to hack a kernel running Ubuntu
<G__81> i hear people saying that Ubuntu is for end users and hacking a kernel or playing with the kernel is tough in Ubuntu. is it so ?
 * G__81 waits 
<wgrant> This isn't really a relevant channel.
<wgrant> But I've never found problems doing it.
<G__81> wgrant, ok
<NCommander> hey asac
<G__81> so i have decided to contribute to Ubuntu
<G__81> I am going to start my journey keeping my fingers crossed . I really look forward for this
<G__81> i really look forward to be part of this team
 * G__81 wishes someone welcomes me
<G__81> :)
<slangasek> G__81: the #ubuntu-kernel channel is probably the best place to start getting involved with kernel maintenance in Ubuntu; the kernel team has git trees for the Ubuntu kernel, so that should be familiar to you, you can feed changes to them in the usual git-y ways - though of course with the kernel as large a project as it is, we prefer as much of the changes as possible to be pushed upstream first
<G__81> slangasek, yeah thanks
<G__81> thanks for your reply and i wish to start off from today
<G__81> i hope i have a good time with this team learning and exploring new things :)
<slangasek> G__81: I don't know how things are in Fedora, but around here I find that there's a pretty big gulf between kernel folks and userspace folks; so while we're happy to have community kernel developers get involved, you're not likely to find much practical assistance for kernel matters on this channel. :)
<slangasek> ("pretty big gulf" -- I think once someone touches the kernel it sucks up all their attention until there's no room left in their brain for userspace)
<G__81> slangasek, yeah sure i ll log in to those and apart from that i also like to contributing on the user space
<G__81> it would be more the userspace than on the kernel space
<NCommander> slangasek, so the fact that I started working to fix the lpia kernel has destroyed my userspace maintenance abilities?
<wgrant> NCommander: Yes.
<NCommander> slangasek & wgrant: you should have warned me!
<G__81> be right back
<slangasek> it's a gradual process
<wgrant> slangasek: But it is now inevitable.
<NCommander> ;.;
 * NCommander wonders if his Hurd coding experience will save him
<slangasek> has Hurd coding experience ever saved anyone?
<NCommander> no, but I did port Linux's entropy framework to mach
<eddyMul> fabrice_sp: your advice to use postinst worked! thanx! will post debdiff soon....
<YokoZar> slangasek: reminds me of a discussion I had at Wineconf.  Alexandre Julliard (lead dev) described his main intrest in Wine as "anything low level.  The lower level the better."  I spoke later, introducing myself as "The opposite of Julliard"
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> I wonder if any of my code in wine is still extant
<fabrice_sp> eddyMul: You're welcome :-)
<NCommander> YokoZar, lol
<didrocks> slangasek: hi :)
<Hobbsee> hmm.
<wgrant> I disagree.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: ?
<DktrKranz> persia, I did some tests on -rt flavour, everything is fine except shutdown. I rebooted/halted system three times and it hangs
<persia> DktrKranz, Hrm.  OK.  I'll bug abogani about that.  I was planning to upload today (or maybe tomorrow).  Shall I wait to see if we can patch that, or just go ahead?
<DktrKranz> persia, well... it could be just me, I have old hardware and I can't be sure it's related to that (such as my pulseaudio issues)
<DktrKranz> pushing it can be a good improvement
<DktrKranz> eventually, it can be fixed at a later stage (via SRU too)
<persia> DktrKranz, Could you update the bug with your encouragement?  Although I was actioned with it in the last release meeting, I would like to have someone in MOTU Release stamp the bug for the records :)
<DktrKranz> sure
<persia> And yeah, the current linux-rt FTBFS, which isn't ideal for release.
<persia> Thanks.
<DktrKranz> persia, done. If you want, I can look for debugging messages while shutting down to better understand my failures
<persia> DktrKranz, If you could, and file a different bug, I'll make sure abogani sees it.
<DktrKranz> agreed. I'll do additional tests (since it will probably become my default kernel). If I catch alessio around, I'll ping him, he's italian too and we recently have a chat about -rt flavour
<persia> Cool.  He was complaining about not having enough users or feedback, so that's probably a good thing.
<DktrKranz> I'm definitely a huge fan of -rt. I contributed a little in RT_PREEMPT development some years ago
<DktrKranz> just some minor fixes, though.
<DktrKranz> anyone familiar with KDE4 has an opinion about http://hattory.no-ip.info/intrepid/result/boson_0.13-4ubuntu1/boson_0.13-4ubuntu1.buildlog ?
<DktrKranz> s/opinion/fix/ ;)
<Mathiasdm2> hi
<Mathiasdm2> I'm looking to include a deb package for I2P in Ubuntu. It's a Java program that currently installs all of its files in a single directory.
<Mathiasdm2> To meet the requirements for including I2P, I understand that executables must be in /usr/bin, config files in /etc/i2p, and so on.
<Mathiasdm2> I was wondering: would it be allowed to (during install) create an I2P directory, and add symlinks to these other locations?
<Mathiasdm2> And if it is allowed, where would one have to install I2P? In /opt, like openoffice.org?
<StevenK> Openoffice.org is not installed in /opt
<Mathiasdm2> ah, my mistake, then it's version 3 that I downloaded myself :p
<Mathiasdm2> is the procedure I described a good one? or would it not be allowed?
<RainCT> Mathiasdm2: no
<Mathiasdm2> any alternatives then? I can't find a lot of documentation on packaging java apps :(
<RainCT> Mathiasdm2: Debian packages can't place anything into /opt (afaik), and if you've a tarball meant to be placed into /opt then that's probably a pre-compiled one anyway, which isn't really ideal to be packaged
<RainCT> Mathiasdm2: I don't know Java, but perhaps looking at some existing package may help
<Mathiasdm2> well, I have sources available, along with an ant script that builds everything, but the problem is that i2p seems pretty much made to be put in a single directory (self-contained)
<Mathiasdm2> okay, I'll do that
<RainCT> (technically it's possible to place everything into /usr/share/<pkgname> and symlink it from there, but that's hardly the right way to do it)
<Mathiasdm2> yeah, I feared so
<asac> NCommander: pong
<didrocks> hum, I can't figure out what to do for localisation. I added an extra dialog in nautilus-share and wanted to update the according translation (po file), before rosetta handle it. Are there some good documentation for that?
<ion_> LP: #283343 â could someone please do the sync?
<ion_> No linky? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnokii/+bug/283343
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283343 in gnokii "Please sync gnokii 0.6.26.dfsg-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ion_> The change in -3 fixes an encoding bug.
<persia> ion_, That bugs looks all set, and just needs an archive-admin.  The archive-admins are scheduled to do stuff on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays usually.
<ion_> Alright, thanks.
<persia> ion_, also, for links, you want to use a syntax like "bug #123456"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123456 in xine-lib "podcast crashes amarok" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123456
<ion_> Iâll keep that in mind. :-)
<slytherin> superm1: hi
<LimCore> why are you people so negative? O_o
<LimCore> ok lets try this one:
<LimCore> would it be very hard to pack a text file, that would contain a fingerprint of medibuntu's key?
<LimCore> that would close a small (but existing) security hole:  when installing medibuntu, there is no way to know if the medibuntu's keyring is actually the real signing key (or was it i.e. injected to our network connection etc etc).  To fix it, the medibuntu keyring should be in officiall ubuntu's repo, signed by it;  Or just put/sign in ubuntu.org information what should be the fingerprint of medibuntu;s
<LimCore> just packing medibuntu's keyring in ubuntu would fix it.
<LimCore> or text file (but then - translations)
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: Hello, regarding bug 269855, I prepared a new upstream package, should I make a debdiff too ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269855 in sl-modem "Please apply patch to fix issue with Si3054 modems" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269855
<AnAnt> superm1: can you help me with dkms problem ?
<DktrKranz> AnAnt, at this point, you may want to ask for a freeze exception, given changes provided
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: I thought that it will wait for jaunty, what do you think ?
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: I haven't got much feedback from ppl who issued bugs at both Debian & Ubuntu
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: I got feedback from only 1 person !
<DktrKranz> AnAnt, if this change is important enough, it could be inserted in intrepid too, but jaunty option is good
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: well, it closes many bugs in Debian & Ubuntu
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: I am working at adding dkms support too
<ScottK> Hobbsee or StevenK: kio-sword can die now.
<DktrKranz> AnAnt, such a rewrite could be hardly approved for intrepid, though
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: I agree !
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: the changelog is pretty BIG !
<DktrKranz> I see :)
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: actually the updated one is on mentors.debian.net
<DktrKranz> are you maint on debian too?
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: well, I have a couple of packages there
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: and I found that sl-modem was orphaned, and mom's laptop needs it (it had that Si5043 chip), so I decided to take over !
<DktrKranz> good!
<AnAnt> Si3054 that is
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: I got a question, bug 144090 has debian bug 489289 in its bug tracker, what does that mean ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 144090 in sl-modem "update the package to 2.9.10 or 2.9.11" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144090
<ubottu> Debian bug 489289 in sl-modem-daemon "slmodem-2.9.11-20080629 available; all previous patches merged." [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/489289
<DktrKranz> AnAnt, just a remote bug watch, to keep track of progress in debian
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: does that mean that fixing  489289 in debian will fix 144090 in LP ?
<DktrKranz> yes, if package is in sync and we're still before Debian Import Freeze
<DktrKranz> but those conditions are actually not satisfied
<tseliot> \sh, DktrKranz: can you have a look at my SRU, please (the debdiff is in comment 32)? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-177/+bug/261816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261816 in linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 "nvidia: Multiple versions in DKMS" [Medium,In progress]
<slytherin> StevenK: I am not sure if there is a bug for it already, but wasn't gnome-bluetooth supposed to be removed from archives?
<persia> slytherin, You can't do that until you port gnome-phone-manager to use a modern interface for bluetooth.
<slytherin> persia: I don't think gnome-phone-manager has anything to do with gnome-bluetooth. gnome-bluetooth is just old implementation of obex server and client
<persia> slytherin, gnome-phone-manager build-depends on libgnomebt0-dev
 * slytherin chcks
<persia> slytherin, Note that gnome-phone-manager probably doesn't work over bluetooth (libgnokii doesn't support any of my phones, so I can't test).  Porting would be good.
<slytherin> persia: At some point of time gnome-phone-manager used to work with bluetooth. Haven't tested for last 2 releases.
<slytherin> persia: One more question I have. The option for enabling file receiving is not available in bluez-gnome anymore. And gnome-user-share, which can enable this option, lies in universe. Do you think I should patch obex-data-server to have this option set by default, for bonded devices?
<persia> slytherin, RIght.  It used to work.  I expect that it broke in hardy.
<persia> slytherin, No.  You'd first want to patch gnome-user-share to use a simpler webserver which might be able to be included on the CD, and it's far too late in the intrepid cycle to investigate these sorts of things.  For Jaunty, I think that's a good idea.
<slytherin> persia: something like lighthttbd?
<slytherin> lighttpd I mean
<persia> slytherin, No.  That's a whole megabyte installed.  Think smaller, like dhttpd or micro-httpd.
<slytherin> hmm
<persia> space on the CD is precious.
<slytherin> but what is solution for now then? I have seen many bugs asking it is not possible to accept files.
<persia> slytherin, My memory is that installing gnome-user-share makes it just work, right?
<slytherin> persia: yes but is is in universe.
<slytherin> and also it will pull apache2
<persia> slytherin, Yes, but that's just documentation.  The archive is frozen.  It's too late to try to change and test the changes to make it work.
<slytherin> oh, so frozen as in no changes at all?
<persia> The bugs should get duped, the workaround (install gnome-user-share) should be updated in the description of the master bug, and it should get fixed first thing in Jaunty.
<persia> frozen as in only changes that are critical for release.
<slytherin> damn, I should have thought about this before.
<persia> General rule is crashers, regressions, translations, install failures, that sort of thing.
<slytherin> regression as compared to hardy?
<persia> crevette and I discussed it a couple weeks ago, and crevette was planning to talk to upstream about switching to a different web server.
<persia> Yes.  regression as compared to hardy, but the level of change can't be high : some regressions we have to accept (unfortunately).
<slytherin> hmm
<persia> slytherin, Basically, it's that end-users who want to do obex have to install an extra package in universe, right?
<slytherin> the reason this is regression is that the option moved form bluez-gnome to gnome-user-share. And can be solved by patching o-d-s to have option set by default. But I guess no point in putting the effort if it is not going to make in.
<persia> Wait : does one need to both install gnome-user-share, and change an option in obex-data-server?
<slytherin> Don't think so. I haven't really looked into the code. But it should be possible to just patch obex-data-server.
<persia> slytherin, Basically, I don't think we want to ask for gnome-user-share on the CDs for intrepid.  If o-d-s needs a patch to make it so that users can just install gnome-user-share and it works for them, then it makes sense to apply that patch.  If it works by installing the package without a patch, there's no need for the patch.
<slytherin> persia: I guess o-d-s will just need a patch. I will check. I am not proposing gnome-user-share for CD anyway, not this late.
<persia> slytherin, OK, I'm just worred about changing o-d-s in such a way that it would need to recommend or depend on g-u-s.  As long as it works properly without g-u-s, and works better with g-u-s, then it's a good patch to push for intrepid.
<slytherin> Ok.
<slytherin> persia: looks like the preference is actually part of bluez-gnome gconf option set. It is just not available on UI.
<persia> slytherin, So basically it needs two things done : to set the gconf key, and to install gnome-user-share?
<slytherin> persia: mostly only first thing.
<persia> So setting that, even with gnome-user-share not installed fixes it?
<slytherin> It should. I am checking. My dongle is gicing me trouble again.
 * ScottK notes some irony about the name of this spacecraft: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/10/17/solar.mission.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
<jdong> "Ibex, the size of a bus tire," *grin*
<slytherin> persia: can you simply try if changing value of gconf key apps/bluetooth-manager/receive_enabled enables/disables file sharing? I will provide the patched package in PPA so that someone else can test it.
<lfaraone> Any release team members about?
<ScottK> Maybe
<lfaraone> ScottK: would bug 274820 cover the addition of a sugar-jhbuild package that would allow developers to build devel versions of the sugar project from SVN?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274820 in sugar "Sugar feature freeze exception" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274820
<ScottK> lfaraone: Why wasn't it uploaded before?
<lfaraone> ScottK: It didn't exist.
<lfaraone> ScottK: It's a new package.
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'd say no.  Get it uploaded as soon as Ibex opens and then we can backport it.
<lfaraone> ScottK: Ah, OK.
<slytherin> ScottK: you mean 'jaunty' :-)
<DktrKranz> tseliot, I think I'm late for your SRU ;)
<tseliot> DktrKranz: thanks anyway ;)
<LaserJock> does anybody  know what the difference between flashplugin-nonfree and adobe-flashplugin is?
<persia> LaserJock, Unless I'm mistaken, flashplugin-nonfree is a multiverse package that downloads flash from adobe and installs it, and adobe-flashplugin is a partner package that installs adobe flash.
<AnAnt> who can help me with a dkms issue ?
<AnAnt> I added dkms support to slmodem, my problem is that it only compiles one module but fails to compile the other
<AnAnt> hey ! sl-modem just got uploaded to Debian !
<LaserJock> persia: ok .... but still that seems sort of like a duplication on a rather annoying package :-)
<ScottK> slytherin: yes
<LaserJock> persia: do you imagine we'd ever drop our Multiverse package and let Canonical maintain Flash? :-)
<ScottK> I'd vote yes.
<AnAnt> gnash is alright
<AnAnt> well, it didn't work well on youtube when I was behind a proxy though
<persia> LaserJock, We could, but derivatives might complain.
<LaserJock> hmm, that is a point
<ScottK> That'd be a reason not to drop any package ever.
<AnAnt> can't derivatives start using gnash ?
<persia> No it wouldn't.  There's a difference between e.g. dropping the useless gnutls13 and dropping a potentially useful package.
<AnAnt> I'm that the last one to say this, I am working on a package that still doesn't work well with gnash !
<persia> Mind you, I'd not be opposed to altering debian/control so flashplugin-nonfree couldn't build on Ubuntu
<ScottK> persia: Is there any reason derivatives can't use Partner?
<persia> ScottK, licensing.
<persia> Stuff in partner is typically only OK for Canonical to distribute, and may not work with a given set of patches applied by a derivative.
<ScottK> They can't distribute stuff that's in there, but no reason that they can't have it in their user's sources.list
<persia> (thinking of derivatives like MEPIS, Mint, Arch : not flavours)
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Gotta run
<persia> No guarantee it even works though.  Same reason people don't use Debian Multimedia as a deb source for Ubuntu.
<G__81> Hi people let me introduce myself. I have been a fedora user and contributor and have installed Ubuntu 8.04 for the first time and i really like it and i am really interested to getting involved in contributing to Ubuntu
<G__81> It would be really great if some one could suggest me with the road ahead.
<G__81> I am really looking forward for this. I can help in Bug Fixing, Testing Packages, Documentation and of course as an ambassador too
<G__81> I work on the Linux Kernel as a hobby so i could chip in some help there
<G__81> i was really amazed on seeing Launch Pad and how it recognizes all the contributions made by the developers. It really motivates the developers to attain more points
<G__81> is anyone here ?
 * G__81 waits 
<csilk> yeah
<csilk> I am
<G__81> hi csilk nice to meet you
<csilk> likewise
<G__81> i am from india and want to be part of this team :)
<csilk> Fantastic
<AnAnt> I am
<G__81> Hi AnAnt
<G__81> I have been contributing to fedora in terms of bug fixing, testing packages, documentation team and also as an ambassador for fedora
<AnAnt> well, my contributions aren't much, I just do some simple packaging and bug reporting !
<csilk> G__81,  feel free to read __ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newdev
<G__81> csilk, thanks and i did read through it as i was so enthusiastic :)
<AnAnt> is there still a need for sun-java6 now that openjdk is there ?
<jdong> I don't believe OpenJDK6 is 100% compatible with sun-java6
<jdong> though it's extremely close
<csilk> Was just about to say that
<persia> It's not a goal to make them 100% compatible, as I understand things.
<csilk> until there is 100% compatibilty there will be a need for the sun one
<jdong> persia: correct
<persia> We still also have JDKs for 1.4 and 1.5.
<jdong> csilk: even if they are 100% interchangeable that doesn't mean we should drop the Sun ones...
<persia> If everything in Ubuntu can be migrated to OpenJDK, the others can be dropped.
<G__81> csilk, is the wiki the right place to start with ?
<G__81> i have created a LP account
<G__81> or rather i already have one :
<G__81> :)
<jdong> persia: our code can be migrated but what about stuff the user intends to run? As a platform IMO we should continue to offer Sun's supported VMs
<G__81> is there any mailing list that i ve to subscribe to ?
<G__81> so that i introduce myself and start off.
<csilk> jdong,  i only use the sun one because I can't risk incompatibility, whatever code I wright at home needs to work in my University lab
<AnAnt> G__81: ubuntu-dev I think
<persia> jdong, Actually, at this point, our code can't be migrated.  Anyway, OpenJDK meets Sun Certification tests, and we should be able to phase out the old ones.
<csilk> *write
<persia> Sun probably wants us to drop them more that we want to drop them anyway.
<handschuh> hi, can anyoen help me with debhelper commands?
<jdong> persia: cool
<handschuh> I am trying to change che permissions on a dir that was created with dh_installdirs
<G__81> is there a mailing list for Ubuntu-motu ?
<AnAnt> G__81: yeah,
<iulian> AnAnt, G__81: Actually no, ubuntu-devel is moderated, only developers can post to that list. You might want to subscribe to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c. OTOH, there are hundreds of bugs that are waiting to be fixed, just pick one, or maybe more and fix them.
<G__81> iulian, ok so its ubuntu-motu and there is an other thing called ubuntu-motu-mentors right ?
<G__81> whats that for ?
<persia> I'd recommend subscription to all of ubuntu-devel-announce@, ubuntu-devel@, ubuntu-devel-discuss@, and ubuntu-motu@ : each has a slightly different role, but all are useful.
<AnAnt> yeah, I really hope someone look at a couple of bugs I reported against the kernel
<iulian> G__81: I think there is a wiki about the mentoring programme. One sec.
<iulian> G__81: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor
<G__81> iulian, thanks a ton
<G__81> iulian, i would like to start off and would read the links that you gave me and will subscribe to the mailing lists first and introduce myself and would start off from there
<G__81> i am really looking forward for working with this team and hopefully do something really good for the Ubuntu Project
<iulian> That would be excellent, indeed.
<G__81> yeah thanks iulian have a nice day will log in back here once i go through the docs
<G__81> cya all
<iulian> You too.
<G__81> iulian, have one question
<G__81> iulian, i gave this sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
<G__81> and now its asking me for some fonts and java installation.This wouldnt break anything right ?
<RainCT> G__81: no, or at least it shouldn't :)
<iulian> G__81: No, it's safe. I didn't encounter any problems with it.
<G__81> its installing some fonts and some exe files
<AnAnt> yup, it is safe
<G__81> Extracting cabinet: verdan32.exe
<AnAnt> it will extract some fonts from the exe files
<G__81> :)
<AnAnt> that's msttcorefonts package
<RainCT> G__81: yep, it's installing windows' fonts
<G__81> oh
<G__81> ok thanks
<G__81> RainCT, Sorry to ask these questions as i have been using fedora :)
<G__81> using as well as contributing so am completely new to ubuntu process as such :)
<G__81> ok got to go now and be back after a few hours with questions/doubts :)
<G__81> nice talking to you all
<G__81> have a nice day
<AnAnt> G__81: questions about usage are better asked in #ubuntu
<G__81> AnAnt, yeah just found  that
<RainCT> G__81: no problem, it's great that you want to get involved :)
<AnAnt> indeed
<G__81> RainCT, infact have already initiated the download of Ibex to give some testing reports
<G__81> Does Ubuntu work fine with Qemu ?
<G__81> I used to test Fedora using that so i guess Ubuntu should also work right ?
<G__81> i believe the installer shouldnt have problems
<G__81> anyways let me explore on it
<G__81> if it does not, then my work starts right there :)
<DktrKranz> AnAnt, I just noticed sl-modem has been accepted in sid, good news ;)
<AnAnt> G__81: ok, if you got issues regarding the upcoming release of ubuntu (currently Ibex), those can be discussed in #ubuntu+1
<G__81> Oh thanks for that info AnAnt
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: yeah, a guy from debian sent me an email asking if I need sponsoring, so I said yes, at the same I was chatting with you earlier today
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: now I need help with adding dkms support !
<AnAnt> dkms ? anyone ?!
<jdong> G__81: I have installed Ubuntu in both qemu and kvm (which is more or less modified faster qemu)
<DktrKranz> I'm not expert of such a system, sorry
<G__81> jdong, thanks will do it
<AnAnt> DktrKranz: shall I submit a sync request for jaunty now ? or shall I wait ?
<DktrKranz> AnAnt, you have to wait a little bit, it won't get processed until archives are reopened
<jdong> calc: is there any hope of reviving the side-by-side installation packaging for openoffice?
<calc> jdong: i kept running into more problems as i fixed them and rene (debian) said he doesn't think it would work at all
<calc> jdong: i'm sure with enough work it could be made to work eventually, but it hasn't been used in a long time apparently
<jdong> calc: yeah it hasn't been used since the 1.x->2.0 transition
<jdong> calc: I was just thinking from a backports perspective if it'd be more advantageous
<jdong> I'm already getting a lot of clammering about OOo3 for Hardy and that scares me without side by side installation
<calc> oh yea we were originally going to put it into universe as openoffice.org3 but it looked like too much trouble
<jdong> yeah; that's too bad :(. It would be the best compromise for people who want version 3
<calc> jdong: i'm considering trying to get 2.4.2 into both hardy/intrepid when it comes out in early dec for bug fix reasons
<calc> jdong: but that would go into updates, not backports
<jdong> right, 2.4.2 sounds good for -updates
<jdong> for backports we'll really have to figure out what we want to do....
<calc> also OOo 3.0 uses a lot of stuff from universe, not sure if that affects how it is backported
<jdong> newer stuff than what hardy's universe has?
<jdong> backports can build against all pockets
<calc> jdong: oh ok, maybe newer than hardy's but not newer than intrepid
<calc> jdong: i didn't know if it could pull from all pockets
<calc> i haven't tried building 3.0 against hardy
<AnAnt> is OO3 stable ?
<calc> AnAnt: upstream calls it that
<jdong> AnAnt: FWIW I've been using it on OS X without any issues
<calc> AnAnt: i wouldn't call it that until at least 3.0.1 is released
<jdong> but I wouldn't use that as a metric for stable
<calc> they were finding new serious bugs until a week before release
<jdong> lovely
<calc> it appears when they didn't find any new serious bugs for one week they released it (i'm pretty sure that is really how it works)
<jdong> lol
<calc> with 2.4.0 they found major bugs shortly after they released it
<calc> of course that is also why they release a .1 release a month later, heh
<jdong> calc: does our 2.4.x support the office 2007 formats or is that a 3.0-only feature?
<jdong> I think that's what most people are clamoring about.
<calc> jdong: even our 2.3 does
<jdong> calc: wow, cool
<calc> not sure about 2.2 though
<calc> it might not be as good as the 3.0 support, well hopefully they are fixing bugs relating to it, but it definitely can open the files
<calc> official openoffice didn't add support to open the files until 3.0 but it has been in ooo-build for a long time now
<calc> i also added support for some more Office 2007 mimetypes with the last 2.4.1 upload to intrepid
<jdong> cool
<calc> a few of the types weren't being identified by shared-mime-info
<calc> so now those can be double click opened as well, you could always open them from inside of openoffice though
<LaserJock> calc: if OO.o can open Office 2007 .docx files with equations they'd be ahead of Microsoft
<LaserJock> I just got my mac upgraded to Office 2008 for Mac so that I could read my students files and it won't open equations from 2007
<LaserJock> I guess it shouldn't surprise me anymore but I was really shocked that MS would do that
<calc> heh, don't know about equations
<LaserJock> I should get OO.o 3 on it and compare
<laga> jdong: hey. just for the record: your upstart event.d files don't work in intrepid :)
<james_w> is writing to files from multiple threads concurrently going to cause segfaults?
<rockstar> james_w, it could.
<james_w> hey rockstar
<rockstar> james_w, hi!
<jdong> laga: yeah, I'm not surprised
<jdong> laga: never updated them for intrepid's new upstart format
<laga> jdong: i'm going to tinker with $stuff
<laga> oh, there is a new format.
<jdong> laga: sweet, lemme know if you make progress :)
<laga> yay for stable formats :)
<jdong> laga: well it was well announced that it was going to change :)
<laga> jdong: i probably won't convert everything, i just want a working mythbuntu ;)
<laga> jdong: just trolling :)
<jdong> lol
<laga> jdong: i assume the documentation on upstart.ubuntu,.com is current
<persia> laga, It's not : that's for a newer version than we have in intrepid.
<jdong> :)
<LaserJock> yay for stable documentation
<persia> Well, the reason we didn't update upstart for intrepid is that it's undergoing massive change upstream, and isn't currently as stable as we want.  Should be able to get in sync again for Jaunty.
<laga> jdong: where was the format change announced?
<laga> hardy and intrepid seem to have 0.3.9
<rockstar> james_w, are you going to be in London this week?
<jdong> laga: oh, maybe I am wrong about that then
<james_w> rockstar: I may be swinging by this week or next to meet with you guys. Nothing confirmed yet though.
<james_w> rockstar: blame jml :-)
<jdong> laga: you might want to start from http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/macbook/etc/event.d/ that event.d
<rockstar> james_w, great.
<jdong> laga: I think one of the LP branches has a poorly machine-generated upstart :)
<laga> yay! the upstart package doesn't come with a description of the event files.
<jdong> laga: might want to talk to #upstart
<jdong> it's been a while since I've used event.d syntax
<LaserJock> anybody here try irssi-plugin-xmpp by any chance?
<LaserJock> I wonder how it is relative to bitlbee
<james_w> could someone confirm I'm not being stupid please?
<james_w> 0x0 in a stacktrace is NULL, yes?
<james_w> and calling var->something when var=0x0 in the stacktrace will cause a SIGSEGV?
<coppro> yes
<persia> james_w, Can you show the stacktrace?
<persia> 0x0 is NULL.
<james_w> thought so
<persia> calling 0x0->something may or may not segfault, depending on how it's used.
<persia> (and how it's trapped).
<james_w> ah
<james_w> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17571430/Stacktrace.txt
<james_w> file_monitor_remove_watch (monitor=0x9240d60, watch=0x0)
<james_w> but one line before that is called it does watch->something
<persia> What's the code for that line?
<persia> Just file_monitor_remove_watch(monitor, watch); ?
<james_w> if (g_slist_length (notify->watch->notifies) == 0) {
<james_w> file_monitor_remove_watch (monitor, notify->watch);
<james_w> I think I may have it though
<persia> Yeah, that's an example of how you can use 0x0->something safely :)
<persia> Of course, it returns zero (0x0), which breaks that particular test.
<persia> (note that g_slist_length takes a pointer as an argument)
<james_w> yeah, notifies is a pointer
<james_w> how is that a safe use?
<james_w> or rather, what makes that safe?
<persia> 0x0 is guaranteed to contain 0x0
<persia> So you get notify->0x0->0x0 which contains 0x0
<james_w> ah, ok
<persia> Essentially, you can always read a non-complex value (integer, byte, char, size_t, etc.) from 0x0, and you'll get 0x0.
<persia> And actually, it might get messy : if you have a structure, and the head of the structure is at 0x0, you might end up pulling a value from somewhere like 0x8
<persia> (which may not be zero)
<james_w> what would cause a read from /dev/tty9?
<james_w> assuming /dev/tty9 is my X
<persia> Well, either a rogue, or the server reading from /dev/tty
<persia> clients shouldn't be able to access it.
<persia> Note that "the server" doesn't necessarily mean xserver-xorg : it's more complicated now, and lots of things live on the server-side.
<james_w> but it would just be normal server activity?
<persia> It's unlikely server activity.  xinput should do most of that processing.  Ask on -devel or -x (I'd try -x first, but don't know how active it is at this time of week)
<james_w> pretty active right now
<persia> They can probably suggest what might be reading from there.  A call to /dev/tty client side would get a virtual tty reference.
<persia> (e.g. /dev/pts/0)
<james_w> I think it's trying to track activity so that it can work out if you are idle
<james_w> so input device activity would fit with that
<persia> Right, except it shouldn't be getting that from /dev/tty : it should be using XInput2
<james_w> and what do you know? Debugging statements make it work.
<wgrant> james_w: All good bugs are like that.
<james_w> this one is a peach
<persia> james_w, This is your null-pointer bug?  Which debugging statement made it go away?
<james_w> a trick I got of Federico
 * persia suspects that it ought do something other than have a debug statement
<james_w> access("MARK: Debugging string", F_OK)
<james_w> then you can just strace and grep the result for "MARK"
<james_w> I expect it just closes the race
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-19
<persia> Well, offsets things such that you're not exposing the race.  Generally better to guard arguments anyway, or wrap in an exception handler if there's no safe way to guard or the common case needs timing optimisation.
<persia> (under the assumption that you're using a language that only passes control to the exception handler in the case of a fault of some sort, rather than one that implements as a conditional)
<james_w> yeah, I will, I just don't know what the race is yet
<avoine> there is a way to "kill" a build in my ppa of launchpad?
<avoine> I have a compilation that is running for 2 hours that should take like 10min
<wgrant> avoine: There is not.
<avoine> humm
<avoine> I guest it should timeout someday
<jdong> avoine: if you are really concerned IIRC #launchpad has people that can terminate a build for it
<avoine> ok thanks jdong
<Hobbsee> ScottK: sweet - but i don't have removal powers.
<StevenK> Hobbsee, ScottK: I'll bin kio-sword after I've dealt with the lpia kernel
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you could smash launchpad to bits as well, if you liked...
<jdong> what is the relationship between flashplugin-nonfree and adobe-flashplugin?
<wgrant> jdong: The latter has the actual plugin in it, and is in partner.
<jdong> wgrant: so does f-n fetch a-f? or are they independent / interchangeable packages?
<wgrant> jdong: They are completely unrelated.
<wgrant> Except for being means to install the same piece of software.
<jdong> ok, gotcha
<csilk> If upstream of aa requested package 'bug'  already has deb packages, would I just take their package and make sure it conforms to our policues or would I package the source afresh?
<csilk> *policies
<Hobbsee> well, ubuntu only accepts sources, not debs.
<Hobbsee> so, if you can grab their source, make sure it conforms to our policies and such, then get it in, that would work.
<Hobbsee> or do it completely from scratch
<csilk> Hobbsee,  they only provide the tarballed source code and binary deb files
<csilk> so I guess I should just package from scratch then
<Hobbsee> yup
<csilk> Ok, thanks
<G__81> Hi everyone
<G__81> i just got into this team by subscribing to the motu list and am gonna start off with my contributions :)
<G__81> to just get a feel of how things happen, i would like to start off with bug triaging
<hemanth> hello MOTU
<hemanth> i previously tired packing this
<hemanth> http://nsl10.csie.nctu.edu.tw/products/nctuns/download/download.php
<hemanth> and failed doing so
<hemanth> plz can anyone help me
<NCommander> hemanth, you need to package the source code of a program, not the binaries of it
<G__81> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> G__81, hi
<hemanth> NCommander, the link gives be the source code
<NCommander> hemanth, no, the link lead me to a red hat package
<G__81> i just subscribed to motu mailing list and have sent an introduction mail to the team :)
<NCommander> G__81, I saw
<hemanth> NCommander, its mentioned there
<hemanth> NCommander, Other Linux distributions such as Debian may work with NCTUns because they use the same Linux kernel as Fedora
<G__81> fedora ?
<G__81> :)
<hemanth> NCommander,  It is the user's responsibility to adjust configurations and settings if he (she) would like to install the latest NCTUns 5.0 on a different Linux distribution than Fedora 9
<NCommander> I can read.
<NCommander> hemanth, why did you fail to package this the first time around
<NCommander> G__81, anyway, we're more bug fixing than triaging now (Intrepid releases in less than two weeks, its extremely late in the cycle)
<hemanth> NCommander, i followed the steps ...made a deb file ...ran it ...it spoiled the dkpg
<NCommander> hemanth, I highly recommend that if you are serious about becoming involved with Ubuntu development you work on similar tasks. Although creating a new package is relatively straightforward, it is not trival by any means
<NCommander> G__81, #ubuntu-bugs can help you get started with triaging and fixing
<hemanth> NCommander, i m very serious
<hemanth> NCommander, i tried making few same packages ..i did it easily
<hemanth> NCommander, but this one is too very complicated as it modifies the kernel
<G__81> NCommander, Yeah true i agree
<NCommander> hemanth, modifies the kernel, or includes a kernel module?
<hemanth> NCommander, can u plz download the file and have a look
<hemanth> NCommander, it tries to overwrite
<NCommander> It's unacceptable for Ubuntu then
<hemanth> NCommander, it has a Kernel module
<NCommander> No package can install its own kernel
<hemanth> NCommander, after installing actually it should appear in the boot menu
<hemanth> NCommander, m very upset
<hemanth> NCommander, i tired GNS3 also
<NCommander> hemanth, that's extremely non-trival to package
<hemanth> NCommander, its not satisfying my needs
<NCommander> hemanth, since you need to hook to grub and do a LOT of things to make that even remotely packagable
<hemanth> NCommander, i tired virtualbox...no use
<NCommander> But looking on their site, I can't even determine what license its under
<hemanth> NCommander, yeah ...i know ....i wouldn have done it , if it were not in my syllabus ..and will surely help loads of students
<NCommander> hemanth, even if this package was more trival, it can't be included in Ubuntu at this time
<NCommander> The archive has been in feature freeze, no new packages are accepted until Jaunty opens
<hemanth> NCommander, o no ...ok at least is it possible for me to install it on my ubuntu
<NCommander> Generally speaking, I'm going to say I don't know. Someone else involved with NSL may be able to help you with it, but its not me
<hemanth> NCommander, o ok ...thank u for sparing ur time :)
<Devastatorius> leave
<Devastatorius> opps, sorry
<slytherin> does anyone know where are the Debian changelogs gone? There is nothing here - http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/s/ and hence requestsync fails.
<geser> slytherin: have you tried asking in #debian-devel on OFTC?
<slytherin> geser: No. I thought someone here might already be knowing it.
<G__81> i ve read the wiki page on what it needs to be done to become a ubuntu developer
<G__81> i am aware of the fact that Ibex is 13 days from release now at this point of time what could i do to start off my contribution
<slytherin> G__81: look at any bug fixes.
<G__81> i am new to LP so can you provide me the link please
<slytherin> G__81: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<G__81> thanks slytherin so should i triage some bugs ?
<G__81> from the list ?
<slytherin> G__81: yes and if you know fixes of the bugs you can try submitting diff
<G__81> slytherin, ok now i have doubt if you see in that list, the gedit component has 1 corresponding to it but when i click on it it says no bugs found
<G__81> or should i click on 8.04 for example and look into the 8.04 bugs ?
<slytherin> G__81: that is not component, it is a tag. I am not exactly aware of how tags work.
<geser> I ignore tags as they are in the current implementation useless
<Hobbsee> darn, exaile has made a new release.
<RainCT> geser: there's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy for 8.04 bugs, but those showing up there have usually already been triaged
<G__81> Hi RainCT
 * RainCT looks at Hobbsee the mighty op :P
<G__81> if i want to fix a bug which is trivial to start off with , which should be the link in LP with respect to 8.04
<Hobbsee> RainCT: muhahahaha!
<RainCT> G__81: bugs should be fixed in Intrepid, not Hardy (unless tehy are critical or security related)
<G__81> Oh so its only in 8.10 that i should focus on is it ?
<G__81> so how do you people generally test the beta releases ? some kind of virtualization stuff ?
<G__81> can i use qemu for it ?
<RainCT> G__81: yes, especially when you start as Hardy (and already released distros in general) have more complicated procedures
<G__81> RainCT, Ok so what do you suggest me ?
<G__81> if i want to start off with ?
<RainCT> (you can use qemu, kvm, virtualbox, a separate partition, whatever you want)
<G__81> ok thats great
<G__81> and have one question how does the karma value get increased ?
<Hobbsee> by doing stuff with launchpad
<wgrant> It's cached, so you'll only see it update daily.
<RainCT> Hobbsee: lol, I had written exactly the same sentence :P
<G__81> Hobbsee, since i am new is it like if i triage a bug does the karma value get increased?
<RainCT> yes
<wgrant> G__81: Yes.
<Hobbsee> G__81: that's one optoin
<G__81> Interesting !! whats the other one ?
<RainCT> Solving questions on Launchpad Answers, commiting to bzr branches (well, not sure about this one, but creating a new branch gives points), writing/modifying specifications on LP, etc.
<G__81> RainCT, Great i guess this is what fedora is lacking :) i am really happy to see this
<G__81> i hope the Ubuntu team is friendly in answering my questions :) so that i get to learn things :) and help the ubuntu project
<G__81> i have read through triaging too but there are no bugs to triage :(
<G__81> i believe at this point
<G__81> right ?
<laga> there are :)
<RainCT> G__81: http://tinyurl.com/triageubuntu
<RainCT> try there
 * G__81 initiates the 8.10 download 
<G__81> RainCT, i selected the newest first option in that page but i get no bugs found
<RainCT> oh, wrong link that gives no results xD
<RainCT> let me start firefox, I have a working link there..
<RainCT> G__81: http://tinyurl.com/ubuntu-triage
<RainCT> G__81: If you'd like to get help with triaging, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/GettingInvolved. For bug fixing or packaging you can try if there's something on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize or else just look for something that annoys you
<G__81> oh RainCT Thanks a lot
<G__81> i did go through it and am doing it again
<G__81> just trying to triage the first bug
<G__81> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/31285
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 31285 in ubuntu "Add repository dialog doesn't close" [Undecided,New]
<G__81> this is what i am trying to triage
<G__81> RainCT, This does not show the version of the distro right ?
<G__81> or are these for 8.10 ?
<G__81> so thats implicit is it ?
<Hobbsee> G__81: that particular bug willoccur on any version where a user has botched their own sources.list
<RainCT> it's unknown what version they are (unless they were filed using some bug filling software, which then adds "DistroRelease: Ubuntu XX" to the description)
<G__81> ok so shouldnt that info be part of the bug ?
<RainCT> G__81: not if they filed it manually
<G__81> so should i add a comment saying that that information is needed or something like that ?
 * Hobbsee adds to that bug
<G__81> its needed only if its filed manually right ? coz if its done automatically wont the software itself take the distro version ?
<RainCT> G__81: no, the first thing is to check if the problem is reproducible on Intrepid
<RainCT> G__81: and if you can't reproduce it ask for more information (including what release they use). if in the end it's fixed in Intrepid, mark it as fixed, if it isn't then add any missing information and mark it as confirmed
<RainCT> G__81: but that's just rougly explained, the wiki has much more information
<G__81> oh ok
<RainCT> G__81: about this particular bug, I think hobbsee is looking at it
<G__81> i thought i can open my Karma account :)
<G__81> its 0 :)
<RainCT> G__81: found a new bug? :)
 * NCommander pokes asac 
<slytherin> geser: As per discussion on #ubuntu-devel, something went wrong with importer in Debian. Whole archive is affected.
<G__81> RainCT, I am trying to if you can help me out it would be really good
<G__81> to start off with
<RainCT> G__81: uhm.. there's for example bug #285739.. you can try to reproduce that one and if it's valid look for duplicates on LP, GNOME's Bug Tracker and if there aren't forward the bug to GNOME (file the bug there and include a link to LP) and add a link to it in LP using the "+ Also affects project"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285739 in nautilus "search is case sensitive and can't change that" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285739
<RainCT> G__81: and there's bug #285720, where you could ask if running it from the terminal gives any output
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285720 in ubuntu "Screens and Graphics won't start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285720
<RainCT> G__81: and let's better go to #ubuntu-bugs before someone screems :P
<RainCT> *screams
<orly_owl> Is Firefox going to have a EULA?
<RainCT> orly_owl: I didn't really look much at it but iirc it's more of an informative page now (explaining that Fx is Free Software and saying that it uses Google and that you can disable that if you want)
<RainCT> asac: btw, why does the "click here for info" bar hide if you close a tab?
<orly_owl> Do you have to click "I agree"?
<RainCT> orly_owl: no
<orly_owl> OK.
<homy> hello. I'm creating a file that defines a new mimetype. I don't see where I can specify the icon of files of that mime type and the associated application=?
<homy> I looked in http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/AddingMIMETutor?action=show&redirect=Standards%2FAddingMIMETutor, but it doesn't say how to achieve that.
<homy> persia, maybe you can help me again? I'm stuck :)
<homy> gnomefreak, can you help me?
<gnomefreak> homy: i dont know, can i?
<gnomefreak> homy: ask and we shall see
<homy> I created a new mime-type definition file, and it works (I mean, nautilus shows me the correct mime type). How do I specify the icon for files of that mimetype?
<homy> I mean, in the definition file, not manually.
<homy> I checked http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/AddingMIMETutor?action=show&redirect=Standards%2FAddingMIMETutor, but it doesn't talk about that.
<homy> gnomefreak: can you help me?
<gnomefreak> give me a minute im reading and talking to someone about an issue i working on but im reading your link
<homy> gnomefreak: the link doesn't answer my question, thats the problem.
<gnomefreak> homy: all you want is to add icon for it?
<homy> gnomefreak: first, yes :) but not manually: later I want a .deb to install the new mime type + icon automatically.
<gnomefreak> ok homy off hand i dont know how you would go about that
<homy> gnomefreak: ok. Can you help me with associating the mime type with my program? I.e. If I double-click an appropriate file, it should be opened with my program?
<gnomefreak> homy: that would depend on what you are using to open them. you can set a default for just about everything
<homy> gnomefreak: If I double-click my file in nautilus/on the desktop, how do I make it open with my application?
<gnomefreak> homy: right click "open with" you can set default but without searching through my $HOME i cant tell you. i use nautilus very little lately
<homy> ok.
<homy> Can somebody help me to set a specific mime type to open automatically with a programm (when opened in nautilus)?
<slytherin> homy: when no one answers then there are 2 possibilities. 1. Those who know are not active in channel. 2. Those who are active don't know the answer.
<homy> slytherin: where can i ask then?
<james_w> woo, finally squished it
<G__81> is it mandatory that a prospective contributor knows how to package stuff ?
<orly_owl> probably
<NCommander> G__81, yes.
<NCommander> MOTU requires equivelent knowledge of a Debian Developer
<G__81> NCommander, MOTU is the second level right. If i want to become a contributor i can get my Ubuntu Membership after the process mentioned there in the website right
<G__81> ?
<NCommander> G__81, well
<G__81> thats the first step right ? Getting my ubuntu membership
<NCommander> Not quite
<NCommander> We have what's called Ubuntu Universe Contributor
<NCommander> (UUC)
<NCommander> It gives you membership when you gain that
<G__81> Ok...
<G__81> so if i need ubuntu membership, is it mandatory that i ve to package stuff ?
<G__81> lets say i test ibex and give bug reports or test the bugs mentioned already and see whether those are valid and fix some ?
<G__81> wont i be eligible for it ?
<NCommander> G__81, nope
<G__81> then ?
<NCommander> G__81, membership isn't even needed for MOTUship. Membership just gives you an @ubuntu.com email, and the ability to post on Planet Ubuntu
<NCommander> G__81, what you need is ubuntu-bugsquad
<NCommander> G__81, which lets you set bugs to triaged and nominate bugs for release
<G__81> Ok how do i get ubuntu membership
<G__81> first
<G__81> :)
<NCommander> G__81, no, you need to earn membership via contributions
<G__81> yeah exactly
<G__81> so for that should i package things ?
<G__81> or can i do bug triaging, testing and fixing
<StevenK> That's one way.
<G__81> is that enough
<StevenK> Another way is bug triage, or translations
<RainCT> G__81: Any "substantial contribution to Ubuntu" is good for membership
 * NCommander could have probably gotten membership via rewriting REVU
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> RainCT, that reminds me
<RainCT> G__81: so if you do loads of bug triaging you can indeed get a member that way, though perhaps it's easier to get it also doing packaging stuff
<G__81> NCommander, you have the membership ?
<G__81> Oh Ok i ll try to do both :
<G__81> :)
<NCommander> G__81, via Kubuntu Membership, and Ubuntu Universe COntributors
 * NCommander has membership in more teams then should be legally allowed
<G__81> I am installing Ibex and let me do some triaging and also some packaging
<G__81> i ve not done packaging
 * G__81 is nervous about packaging 
 * StevenK counts
<NCommander> IT's relatively hard to shoot yourself in the foot
<StevenK> 18 direct, 30 direct + indirect
<RainCT> G__81: my advise is that you first do some triaging so that you learn how Launchpad, etc. work and once you start to get bored at that have a look at packaging
<cbx33> hey all
<G__81> RainCT, yeah exactly
<RainCT> hi cbx33 :)
<cbx33> man anyone know if apache is ipv6 enabled ?
<cbx33> Hi RainCT
<cbx33> been having terrible troubles with it today :(
<G__81> cbx33, if your linux has got IPv6 enabled then your apache should work
<G__81> coz HTTP is an application level protocol
<G__81> your routing L3 protocol should have that basically
<cbx33> yeh that's what I thought
<cbx33> I think there is possibly a bug
<cbx33> Listen 80 should let it listen on ipv4 and 6
<cbx33> but it's not
<G__81> RainCT, i have installed 8.04 in Virtual Box and i am upgrading to 8.10 so with that i can do bug triaging right ?
<cbx33> ssh and dns do
<G__81> testing the bugs reported
<G__81> right ?
<RainCT> G__81: yea
<G__81> RainCT, How about this mentoring, Can someone mentor me ?> :)
<RainCT> G__81: I don't think there is a mentoring programe for bug triaging, but there are "Hug Days" from time to time where people meet in #ubuntu-bugs.. there was one 2 days ago, not sure when the next one is
<G__81> 21st i believe
<G__81> :) waiting for it but anyways i could start off on bug triaging without mentoring but generally i saw some mentoring programmes so was curious to know about it
<RainCT> yes, but those are for packaging
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> ahhh packaging, that's where the fun begins
<porthose> G__81: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<G__81> i really like these processes i guess these are the reasons why there are more contributors in Ubuntu when compared to fedora
<G__81> i believe
<G__81> when i installed Ubuntu some months back i signed the code of conduct and became Ubuntero and i generated the PGP keys and then after many months i installed ubuntu again yesterday since i had fedora these months. Now today i installed 5-a-day applet and i tried to use bzr login from the command line but i couldnt
<G__81> how do i again generate the SSH keys
<RainCT> G__81: ssh-keygen
<G__81> how do i export this to LP
<G__81> i ve done ssh-keygen
<RainCT> G__81: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editsshkeys
<porthose> G__81: https://help.launchpad.net/
<G__81> i have subscribed to motu mailing list is that enough ?
<G__81> i ve sent an introduction mail to the list too :)
<RainCT> G__81: you may also want to join ubuntu-motu-mentors@
<G__81> oh ok
<G__81> thanks
<G__81> now today i triaged one bug so what should i do with that 5 a day applet ?
<G__81> am not able to use that
<G__81> What should be the user name to be given with bzr launchpad-login ?
<G__81> i use the email address to login into LP
<G__81> should that be given ?
<RainCT> your LP username, ie, that what's displayed after the ~ in the URL if you visit https://launchpad.net/+people/me
<RainCT> * https://launchpad.net/people/+me
<G__81> oh thanks too many things
<G__81> to learn :)
<G__81> am upgrading to 8.10 now
<G__81> in my Virtual Box partition
<MetaMorfoziS> Hi all. Does anybody can anybody tell me the reason that why sun-java6-plugin depends on firefox3.0?
<MetaMorfoziS> anybody -
<geser> MetaMorfoziS: why should a java plugin for firefox (and other mozilla based browsers) not depend on it?
<MetaMorfoziS> opera and konqueror for example uses the same
<MetaMorfoziS> and what if i have firefox not from repos?
<laga> odd, i seem to have two versions of that package. one is meta package which depends on all browsers, the other one doesn't
<MetaMorfoziS> how can i install the other?
<geser> if you work outside the package management system (installing firefox on your own) you are on your own
<MetaMorfoziS> oh
<MetaMorfoziS> i get it
<MetaMorfoziS> geser > that's not a good aproach, imho.
<MetaMorfoziS> the repos not always contains every programs, or the version us need
<geser> MetaMorfoziS: how should we know if you've the required version installed or not?
<MetaMorfoziS> geser > easy, don't make forward dependencies
<MetaMorfoziS> a lot of program can be the user of the java plugin, that's all...
<MetaMorfoziS> if i need java plugin, nobody says i need firefox3 from the repos
<MetaMorfoziS> but i don't want to reform ubuntu, i just came here to get the reason of this stuff...
<RainCT> MetaMorfoziS: on Intrepid it desn't depend on firefox
<geser> MetaMorfoziS: if you know that the java plugin also works with other packages please file a bug
<RainCT> firefox | firefox-2 | iceweasel | mozilla-firefox | iceape-browser | mozilla-browser | epiphany-gecko | epiphany-webkit | epiphany-browser | galeon | midbrowser | xulrunner
<MetaMorfoziS> as laga said, there are another version of that metapkg, i have installed that and the problem looks solved
<geser> laga: both are coming from the ubuntu archive?
<MetaMorfoziS> geser > then every browser that can handle java will be installed with sun-java6-plugin ?
<RainCT> MetaMorfoziS: no, the any of them will be enough
<RainCT> s/the//
<laga> geser: no clue. ;)
<G__81> hi RainCT I am almost done with Ibex upgrade in VBox instance. I hope it starts properly and i start off with my work :)
<RainCT> geser: that one in hardy depends on xulrunner-1.9, the one in hardy-updates and in intrepid alternatively depends on the list I pasted above
<antpeter> Hi All!
<antpeter> I have a question about uploading updated package
<geser> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<antpeter> I've build an updatetd package of nmap (nmap-4.76). Where to upload it?
<rocco> hey all
<rocco> antpeter, awesome, one that actually works with ipv6
<rocco> :)
<antpeter> !ask How to upload an updated nmap-4.76?
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<antpeter> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<antpeter> How to upload to REVU?
<cbx33> hey all
<sebner> !revu | antpeter
<ubottu> antpeter: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<cbx33> so.....if there is a question that #ubuntu can't answer where do people go :p
<antpeter> !help
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-motu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://tinyurl.com/5zfb6t - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<antpeter> !motu
<ubottu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<RainCT> antpeter: Hi. Go to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com and log in
<RainCT> antpeter: after that, if you have a __source.changes file for that package you can just upload it doing "dput revu <filename>"
<RainCT> cbx33: still trying to get apache working with IPv6?
<nhandler> antpeter: You can also access ubottu's factoids through /msg
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> and failing
<RainCT> cbx33: have you tried in #ubuntu-server?
<cbx33> firefox doesn't like ::1 as an address either
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> lemme try
<Laney> isn't it [::1
<antpeter> dput revu nmap_4.76-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
<antpeter> Can't open /home/petr/nmap/nmap_4.76-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
<antpeter> ???
<cbx33> Laney, nope
<Laney> [::1], even
<Laney> bah, /me shrugs
<cbx33> ahh that's is
<cbx33> : think
<cbx33> I
<cbx33> still fails
<RainCT> here it works with [::1]
<cbx33> apache works?
<RainCT> yep
<cbx33> can you paste me netstat -ltu
<RainCT> cbx33: http://paste.ubuntu.com/59753/
<cbx33> tcp6       0      0 [::]:www                [::]:*                  LISTEN
<cbx33> seei don't have that
<cbx33> what version of ubuntu?
 * RainCT is on Intrepid
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> maybe that's why
<sebner> RainCT: and running?
<RainCT> cbx33: there's some IPv6 stuff in /etc/apache2, if you want I can mail you the folder
<cbx33> yes please
<RainCT> sebner: Well, GNOME still doesn't start. But as I use Openbox I don't really mind
<cbx33> when's release?
<RainCT> cbx33: 30th
<cbx33> RainCT, silentkeystroke@googlemail.com
<sebner> RainCT: rofl. that's why I use unstable stuff as default. When you start with it everything is running. In the end everything is b0rken but still running. so I won compared to you :P
<cbx33> heheh
<RainCT> lol
<cbx33> ty
<RainCT> cbx33: Sent. Note that httpd.conf and sites-available/default have custom modifications.
<cbx33> where di yo usee ipv6 stuff?
<RainCT> I don't, it comes by default :)
<cbx33> <RainCT> cbx33: there's some IPv6 stuff in /etc/apache2, if you want I can mail you the folder
<RainCT> oh
<RainCT> wait, now I don't see it
<cbx33> heheh
<RainCT> damn, seems like I dreamed it LOL
<cbx33> oh RainCT !!
<cbx33> :p
<RainCT> Heh, no, it's the SSL stuff then.. I also saw IPv6 stuff somewhere, but I don't remember where o.O
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> i see an allow from ::1
<cbx33> this is annoying
<cbx33> funny RainCT it doesn't show apache running on ipv4 on your machine
<antpeter> I have a problem with uploading to REVU. The dput crashed while I trying to upload. See: http://paste.ubuntu.com/59760
<RainCT> if he comes back, that's bug #183624
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 183624 in dput "dput EOFError on ftp uploads" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183624
<antpeter> Thanks
<antpeter> Is it possible to upload by another method?
<RainCT> antpeter: not that I know off, but I've just realised that you don't want to upload it to revu anyway :P
<RainCT> antpeter: updates are handled on Launchpad, not REVU
<RainCT> antpeter: so just file a bug, upload the .diff.gz and include a link to the .tar.gz on upstream's pag
<RainCT> +e
<antpeter> RainCT: thank you
<RainCT> np
<antpeter> RainCT: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nmap/+bug/268996 is it right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268996 in nmap "Update nmap to version 4.75" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<nhandler> antpeter: Why is it marked Fix committed?
<antpeter> I don't know why, I'm newb.
<RainCT> nhandler: "Fix Commited" means "already uploaded to Ubuntu"
<RainCT> nhandler: "Some changes in debian/ dir" isn't a good changelog entry, you have to explain all the changes you've done and when it ins't obvious also why
<RainCT> err
<RainCT> ^antpeter
<nhandler> RainCT: I know what fix commited means. But look at the bug report. Nothing has been uploaded or committed to a vcs
<RainCT> nhandler: yes, that was ment for antpeter. sorry
<nhandler> Ok
<RainCT> antpeter: further note that this won't be looked at after until Intrepid has been released
<antpeter> May be  I try to edit changelog and then reupload the new .diff.gz?
<RainCT> (It's not allowed to get new versions -unless for some special cases- into released versions -ie, Hardy-, and for Intrepid it's already too late)
<RainCT> (too)
<RainCT> antpeter: yes, please do this
 * jdong notices how portdb -Fu is possibly the most aptly named command on FreeBSD...
<ajmitch> morning
<directhex> you mean evening! silly people in silly simezones... *grumble*
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: morning! But I havent yet gone to sleep. Its still Sunday Evening :D
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> some of us have already started at work for the week
<geser> lucky you :)
<ajmitch> yes, quite... :)
<lfaraone> Hey, where do yelp docs exepct to be placed in the FS?
<RainCT> lfaraone: /usr/share/gnome/help/
<lfaraone> RainCT: ok, what is the subdir C? /usr/share/gnome/help/*/C
<lfaraone> RainCT: (cause yelp doesn't seem to like it when I put it in there normally
<RainCT> lfaraone: I don't know, but I guess you have to register the files with yelp or something
<lfaraone> RainCT: hrm...
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-12
<doko_> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/286360/ didn't look yet. do you have more info in the meantime?
<doko_> geser: 3) it does
<stani> Can someone make bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phatch/+bug/448971 public?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448971 in phatch "Please sync phatch 0.2.3-1 (universe) from Debian Unstable (main) " [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<stani> sorry I  mean bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/442466
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<stani> pochu, ScottK ^
<iulian> stani: Done.
<stani> julian: Thanks a lot!
<iulian> You're welcome.
 * iulian -> lunch.
<skar> any place where i can read up on applying my patch to a source deb and then building it?
<geser> skar: if you don't care about proper integration into the source package: simply apply the patch
<geser> and then debuild -b (after installing the build-dependencies, it will complain about missing build-dependencies)
<skar> geser: well, i've installed the glibc source deb, and the dir has a dsc, diff and tar.gz file. how do i ask debuild to just unpack, apply patches it has but stop short of building?
<geser> skar: dpkg-source -x the_package_you_want_extracted.dsc
<geser> I don't know which patch system glibc uses, so I can't tell you how to apply the patches included in the source package. But as long as your patch doesn't collide with other, the order should matter (first yours and the the ones from the package or vice versa)
<skar> geser: thanks, now i've got a dir within which some tar.bz2 files and debian dir are present. i still can't find my header file in there which is what i need to patch.
<skar> geser: it seems glibc uses quilt.
<skar> debian/rules.d/quilt.mk:     @echo -n "Unapplying patches..."
<Laney> quilt push -a
<geser> Laney: from the message skar typed it sounds like glibc uses tar-in-tar :(
<Laney> oh I only read the second line
<Laney> indeed that is pain
<skar> well, i started debuild, made the process sleep with Ctrl+Z, applied my patch, then resumed the build with fg and it build my new libc fine. but it's ugly.
<skar> what i want is cleaner, simpler one which must be what the package maintainers must be using.
<skar> geser, Laney: thanks for the tips. any ideas on how to apply the patch, then start the build without overwriting the patched sources again?
<geser> skar: there is certainly a cleaner way but as didn't look at the glibc package I can't tell
<skar> geser: oh ok. thanks anyway. will study the build process.
<RainCT> siretart: thanks, trying it out now
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/651337 ; can anyone help me out with this.. Im trying to include a wrapper withing the binutils pkg itself.. strangely the dh_links work fine.. but i get an error like so:
<wrapster> cp /usr/sfw/bin/gas debian/binutils/usr/sfw/bin/gas-real
<wrapster> cp: cannot create regular file `debian/binutils/usr/sfw/bin/gas-real': No such file or directory
<geser> wrapster: check if the target directory exist before you cp into it
<funkyHat> I got an error message from rosetta, saying it couldn't import a file because of text encoding problems. Do I need to do anything about this? (my upload was nothing to do with translations)
<wrapster> geser: ok thanks.
<wrapster> will revert back.
<geser> funkyHat: better ask someone familiar with rosetta or translation in #launchpad about it
<funkyHat> thanks geser, I've asked in #launchpad
<Laibsch> How can I get the grab-merge script to merge from Debian unstable instead of debian testing?
<geser> grab-merge download just the files from MoM. And MoM tries merging against Debian unstable
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> Why is wordpress still at the version in testing ten days after upload?
<Laibsch> or in other words
<AnAnt> feature freeze
<AnAnt> oh
<Laibsch> when is MoM going to have 2.8.4-3?
<AnAnt> probably in karmic+1
<Laibsch> hm, that's not satisfactory
<Laibsch> How do I explicitly merge against unstable, then
<Laibsch> ?
<AnAnt> erm, sorry, I think I answered the wrong question
<AnAnt> I thought you meant when will 2.8.4-3 be in Ubuntu
<Laibsch> I kind of had the feeling you were a bit off
<Laibsch> Although the question somehow is about when 2.8.4-3 will be in Ubuntu ;-)
<Laibsch> I'd like to get it merged
<geser> Laibsch: then do it by hand: take the package from Debian and apply the Ubuntu delta on it
<Laibsch> hm
<Laibsch> never done it
<Laibsch> I expect a patch conflict at least in  debian/changelog
<Laibsch> if not elsewhere as well
<geser> than that's a good opportunity to learn it :)
<directhex> Laibsch, if the only *needed* delta is changelog, request a sync (the ubuntu changelog will die)
<Laibsch> directhex: no, that is not the case
<Laibsch> geser: if you give more details, I may fix this package
<Laibsch> if not, I may drop the ball on it
<geser> Laibsch: I usually go to the PTS page to find all the needed links: http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/wordpress.html
<geser> there you will find the link to the .dsc file from unstable which you can pass to dget to download it all
<Laibsch> I'm aware of that
<geser> and there is also the link to the patch file with all Ubuntu changes
<Laibsch> But that doesn't merge things magically
<geser> true, but after applying the Ubuntu patch you just need to resolve the conflicts, pretty certain debian/changelog
<geser> the advantage MoM has, it does merging the changelog pretty good
<geser> other merge conflicts it also leaves to resolve for the merger
<Laibsch> true
<Laibsch> http://patches.ubuntu.com/w/wordpress/wordpress_2.8.4-1ubuntu1.patch looks like a good way
<Laibsch> thanks
<wrapster> hi
<wrapster> the build came through perfectly but when i install i dont see that wrapper at all..
<wrapster> geser: how is it possible that a few lines can be exectued with the remainng are not?
<geser> wrapster: what you mean? your wrapper didn't end in the built deb package?
<ScottK> doko_: I did see that failure before, but didn't figure it out.
<wrapster> geser: no
<wrapster> according to that pastie.. a file called gas-real has to exist in /usr/sfw/bin/ ; all i can see is just gas.. and im very sure thats coming from the dh_link
<wrapster> geser: well the debian/binutils dir has /usr/sfw/bin/ and gas/gas-real as well.. but dpkg -i <binutils> wont install that at all?
<AnAnt> could someone sponsor http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabily-xsplash-artwork please ?
<joaopinto> hell, can someone sponsor the fix for bug 449502 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449502 in sqlitebrowser "FTBFS, getline() conflicts with glibc function" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449502
<joaopinto> hello :P
<geser> wrapster: if it's in the package then dpkg should also install it
<wrapster> geser: then why is it not? coz the dh_link is set up and just 1 line down and it doesnt work...
<wrapster> or is my logic wrong thre?
<wrapster> here is the story...
<geser> wrapster: can you pastebin the contents of the build deb file (dpkg-deb -c)?
<wrapster> apparently gas has a -K option (set at runtime) which i want to negate and i had written a wrapper to solve it. first mv gas to gas-real then open a sh script called gas which internally calls gas-real `echo $@ |sed 's/-K//g' ... i thought of doing that.. in the rules file itself so that when pkg is built it will be automatically created...
<geser> joaopinto: you might have greater success if you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to it. on a quick look your fix looks good. did you forward it already to Debian?
<joaopinto> geser, I did, but actually I had great  success asking here :)
<joaopinto> subscrbing sponsors anyway
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/651383
<geser> wrapster: does http://pastie.org/651337 still contain you most recent changes?
<wrapster> geser: thats the latest
<wrapster> mkdir -p debian/binutils/$(TAR_DIR) <before line:16>
<geser> wrapster: because there you copy /usr/sfw/bin/gas from the host system (and not from the build) to gas-real. check your build log if cp didn't complain about anything (like missing source file)
<wrapster> well actually there is no /usr/sfw/bin/gas until this pkg is installed.
<wrapster> i created that as well...
<geser> wrapster: I didn't look at dh_link, but I assume it works inside the staging dir from where your package get build it the end but your cp command tries to copy a file from your host system (the one that is currently building the package) and not from that staging dir
<wrapster> oh
<wrapster> i get that..
<wrapster> but the strange thing is if you just cut this out and create a makfile out of this and run.. it works perferctly
<wrapster> :(
<wrapster> ive tried
<geser> hmm
<geser> wrapster: and a hint: you could store the wrapper (the shell script) in debian/ (as e.g. gas) and just copy it to its destination instead of creating it in debian/rules (no fighting with escaping needed)
 * geser will be back in around 30 min
<wrapster> oh cool.. could you elaborate..
<wrapster> guys if anyone else was following up  mine and geser conversation could you pls look at this http://pastie.org/651416 and let me know if ive written it right?
<skar> geser: hi, got the patch to work fine. all the patches were stored in a debian/patches/i386 dir :) but the build takes very long, due to it building all sorts of locales. any idea to do only certain locales?
<geser> wrapster: looks good
<geser> skar: sorry, no idea
<skar> geser: np. thanks for the tips though. will look into the build process further and dig out where locales list is and change it :)
<joaopinto> dholbach, about bug 449177, I was about to fix the FTFBS on the ubuntu package, by chanding debian rules to use automake1.11, I guess that's a btter a fix than build depend on automake1.10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449177 in libcsoap "Sync libcsoap 1.1.0-16.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449177
<joaopinto> will the sync be performed ?
<joaopinto> I remember someone telling me that a sync requires more effot because it requires an archive admin action, unlike a debdiff sponsor
<geser> joaopinto: but a sync has the advantage that the package will be auto-synced in karmic+1 instead of appearing on the merge list
<joaopinto> ok
<joaopinto> so I should file a bug for the Debian package
<wrapster> geser: thank you for your idea
<wrapster> geser: it did not work!!!
<geser> can you explain?
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/651466
<geser> hmm, did it end in the .deb?
<wrapster> geser: again i can see it in debian/binutils/usr/sfw/bin/ but its not while dpkg -i
<wrapster> geser: no it did not
<geser> can you pastebin all your changes? I want to try it in my karmic pbuilder
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/651471
<wrapster> one moment.
<wrapster> geser: here it is http://pastie.org/651383
<wrapster> TAR_DIR= /usr/sfw/bin/
<Zelut> if a package provides a symlink which points to a file provided by another package, but said file does not exist, which package is at fault? (ie; which should I report the bug on)?
<RainCT> Zelut: That depends whether the file should really be there or not.
<Zelut> RainCT: /usr/share/doc/bash/ includes a file 'completion-contrib' which points to ../bash-completion/contrib. There is no contrib file.
<wrapster> geser: i created a new rule for this... lets see if it works now.
<wrapster> geser: any luck?
<geser> wrapster: waiting on the build results
<wrapster> geser: ok...
<wrapster> geser: what do you think could be wrong ?
<wrapster> and is your done?
<Zelut> RainCT: I know its just a papercut bug, bug which should I report the issue for?
<RainCT> Zelut: I can't say without looking into it
<wrapster> geser: is it done?
<geser> wrapster: more or less (had to install debhelper as it wasn't listed in build-depends)
<wrapster> ok.. i tried creating a new rule didnt help
<wrapster> i really dont get it...
<geser> wrapster: the build finished, looking into it now
<wrapster> geser: btw just so you know.. i have put these cmds under the install target section.
<geser> wrapster: I could reproduce your problem
<wrapster> and any idea what can be done?
<geser> not yet
<geser> wrapster: I hope I found it, will let you know when "debian/rules binary" is done building the new deb
<wrapster> ok... thanks..
<wrapster> im praying it works.
<wrapster> geser: also i would like to know if the rules can be tested individually.. so that i can actually narrow down the issue?
<wrapster> instead of running buildpkg every time and waiiting for hrs
<geser> wrapster: yes, the rules are called in order: clean -> build -> binary (which often depends on install)
<geser> you can call debian/rules with the target you need (e.g. once it got build, you can call the binary target several times in case you need to add a fix there)
<wrapster> make -f debian/rules <target> ?
<geser> but it's a good idea to test-build it at the end from clean, just to be sure you didn't miss anything
<geser> wrapster: yes, or debian/rules <target> (it's executable :)
<wrapster> ok... so did you narrow down on the issue?
<wrapster> this has taken me hrs ... being a newbie .. its very tough
<wrapster> :(
<geser> wrapster: -rw-r--r-- root/root        56 2009-10-12 15:17 ./usr/sfw/bin/gas (there is a chmod +x missing)
<geser> wrapster: the package doesn't use debian/binutils but debian/tmp as a staging dir
<wrapster> oh crap.
<geser> wrapster: cp debian/gas debian/tmp/usr/sfw/bin/gas
<wrapster> how did you figure it out?
<wrapster> it will help me also ..
<geser> wrapster: there are some variables used within the debian/rules file for the destination, one of them is d_bin (for the binutils package; look around line 33)
<geser> wrapster: alternative you could look into the directories below debian/ to check from which your package gets build (as it will have the same contents as the deb)
<wrapster> ok i so far had thought that the staging dir is a standar meaning.. debian/<pkgname> would be that.. i didnt know its not so..
<geser> wrapster: newer packages use debian/<package> now, but some packages still use debian/tmp (its predecessor)
<wrapster> ok.
<wrapster> so are you rebuilding .?
<wrapster> im trying it out here!!!
<wrapster> geser: worked like a charm
<wrapster> thanks a ton
<\sh> siretart, pingeling....
<leonel> how it's called when you want  a newer package for dapper ??
<james_w> leonel: backports?
<leonel> james_w: but included as official and not in backports?
<james_w> SRU?
<leonel> have a problem with the dapper  patch for squirrelmail .. bug    446838
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446838 in squirrelmail "Multiple cross-site request forgery (CSRF) vulnerabilities in SquirrelMail 1.4.19 and earlier" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446838
<ari-tczew> leonel: did you read wiki? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Packaging
<ari-tczew> very poor work
<leonel> ari-tczew: why very poor ?
<ari-tczew> only in patch2:
<ari-tczew> unchanged:
<ari-tczew> --- squirrelmail-1.4.13.orig/src/options_order.php
<ari-tczew> +++ squirrelmail-1.4.13/src/options_order.php
<ari-tczew> wtf?
<ari-tczew> where is patch?
<leonel> ari-tczew: what debdiff are you looking at ?
<ari-tczew> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33428968/sqjaunty.debdiff
<ari-tczew> please compare with this: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33234876/drupal5_5.18-1.1ubuntu2.debdiff
<leonel> drupal  uses  dpatch
<leonel> squirrelmail  had no   debian/patches dir
<leonel> the previous  patches for squirrelmail where applied  by someone else and did the patching inline
<leonel> that's the road I've followed
<ari-tczew> leonel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<leonel> ari-tczew: yes I've read
<ari-tczew> I can't believe that squirrelmail can't using patchsystem.
<leonel> ari-tczew: I've follow as the previous patches went in
<leonel> ari-tczew: this is not my first patch ..
<leonel> ari-tczew: even I'm not an expert ..
<leonel> ari-tczew: I've did my best  editing 19 files for  5  Ubuntu versions..
<ari-tczew> yhym I see
<leonel> so what is really wrong so I can fix it ?
<ari-tczew> Best work is include a patch to debian/patches
<joaopinto> afaik the usual rule is to keep whatever patch system is used on Debian, if it was none, keep it none :P
<leonel> so edit  the package to include a patching system ?
<ari-tczew> bingo !
<sistpoty|work> ari-tczew: nope, what joaopinto wrote
<leonel> joaopinto: that's what I've always known
<leonel> so that's why as I've said ..  I've followed the patches as ther where comming ..  no patching system in squirrelmail so   patched inline
<ari-tczew> maybe you wrong patched files?
<ari-tczew> try again
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, there is nothing wrong with his approach per the latest discussion about patches management
<leonel> ari-tczew: WHAT ???
<sistpoty|work> ari-tczew: any changes are in the .diff.gz so recovering from unwanted changes can be done easily
<ari-tczew> OK, I'll no long intrude in this case.
<ahasenack> hey, is apport in karmic ok? It doesn't catch crashes in python scripts that do not run as root because the crash file can't get written to /var/crash
<ahasenack> example: https://pastebin.canonical.com/23217/
<ahasenack> ups, wait
 * ahasenack switches the pastebin
<ahasenack> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/291714/
<ahasenack> hmm, I may have an old version
 * ahasenack updates
<james_w> ahasenack: what are the permissions on your /var/crash?
<ahasenack> james_w: 0700 root:root
<james_w> that's why then
<ahasenack> james_w: but I'm updating this karmic vm now, it's a few days behind, maybe something changed
<james_w> something has changed that
<ahasenack> james_w: so what are the original permissions and what sets it?
<ahasenack> james_w: oops, wait
<ahasenack> james_w: it's 0755, not that it changes much
<ahasenack> it's also root:root 0755 in another karmic instance I have, and that one is up-to-date
<ahasenack> I wonder if apport is actually a daemon that catches the errors and has write permissions there
<ahasenack>  /etc/init.d/apport is an upstart job now, and I don't know how do start or handle these. I know there is nothing like "apport" running right now
<james_w> ahasenack: the apport upstrart job creates it
<james_w>     mkdir -p -m 1777 /var/crash
<ahasenack> james_w: where is that mkdir line? In /etc/init.d/apport?
<james_w> /etc/init/apport.conf
<ahasenack> ok, I'll reboot the machine and let's see what happens
<ahasenack> james_w: is there a way to run these upstart jobs manually like in the "old days"? Like /etc/init.d/apport start
<james_w> sudo start apport
<james_w> or sudo service apport start
<ahasenack> so, just doing that doesn't fix the directory, likely because it's already there
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> one thing I can see is that update-notifier-common ships the dir
<james_w> which it didn't seem to in jaunty
<james_w> and so new installs will probably see this
<ahasenack> ups, I guess this machine has a problem now
<ahasenack> init: mountall post-stop process (942) terminated with status 1
<ahasenack> getting a segv
 * ahasenack searches launchpad
 * jdong kicks thunderbird for not compacting more often
<nikolam> hello
<nikolam> link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug on launchpad redirects me to ubuntu wiki
<nikolam> instead of letting me file a bug
<nikolam> so there is a bug about filing bugs on launchpad? :)
<joaopinto> nikolam, read the wiki
<joaopinto> on the bottom there is a description on how to manually file a bug report
<joaopinto> nikolam, is not a bug, is a feature
<nikolam> aha..
<nikolam> interestin.
<nikolam> Maybe that should be explaind on top of the wiki.
<nikolam> right noe i am again confused joaopinto
<nikolam> i am reading it, but i am not sure how to file a bug
<joaopinto> ufff
<nikolam> and i filed them many before
<joaopinto> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/PACKAGENAME/+filebug?no-redirect
<joaopinto> nikolam, the goal is to make bug filing restricted to those who can read a page :P
<nikolam> i think the goal is to having less bug reports
<nikolam> pet example, my bug have nothing to do with apport etc
<joaopinto> less unusefull bug reports, yes
<micahg> nikolam: the goal is to collect information about the package in question to save back and forth for triagers
<joaopinto> nikolam, this is not related to apport, apport is just a tool to make bug reporting easier
<nikolam> but what about bugs that have nothing to do with triaging?
<joaopinto> nikolam, erm, you are not getting the point
<nikolam> Like, request for packaging new package etc
<joaopinto> nothing changed, except for the process for opening bugs
<joaopinto> nikolam, for those you use the links described on the wiki
<nikolam> I would like to have those links inside launchpad, and not only on wiki, thats all.
<joaopinto> nikolam, that would defeat the purpose of the change, as it would allow to people filing bugs without providing the required info
<nikolam> is this suppost to be right place to file a bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/PACKAGENAME/+filebug?no-redirect
<joaopinto> if you you are going to file a bug against a package, better use, ubuntu-bug package
<nikolam> I don`t see point of launchpad as whole if user is requred to manually change link it should be able to click to
<joaopinto> if't it's for a project
<joaopinto> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
<joaopinto> nikolam, a user is not required to use launchpad links, it is required to use the "Report bug" function, or to run the ubuntu-bug command
<joaopinto> nikolam, why are you complaining if you didn't read the full wiki page yet ?
<joaopinto> in this complain time you could have read the page and have a better understanding of the changes
<nikolam> joaopinto, i think that there is very small amount of people/users that will EVER read full wiki page
<nikolam> And theis conclusion would be.. it doesn`t work.
<joaopinto> nikolam, those which are not qualitified to provide the information for a bug or for a process, don't add any benefite to participate in such process
<nikolam> I don`t say idea is bad, it is very good one, actally
<micahg> guys this discussion is more suited for the #ubuntu-bugs channel
<micahg> *people
<nikolam> oki :) micahg
<nikolam> anyway, we understand , say I understand it now..
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-13
<Laibsch> Does http://packages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-laptop-mode still serve a purpose?  It hasn't been updated for ages and there is the generic laptop-mode-tools package available.  Time for removal?  Where to request?
<Legendario> is joÃ£o pinto here?
<ScottK> No
<LLStarks> hi. can i get action on this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitpim/+bug/395830
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395830 in bitpim "Bitpim crashes when communicating with phone" [Undecided,New]
<LLStarks> patch is posted, just needs packaging.
<LLStarks> bitpim is pretty much non-functional without it and root.
<fabrice_sp> LLStarks, why don't you prepare a debdiff, and subscribe u-u-s?
<fabrice_sp> fyi, if the sponsors are not subscribed, nothing will be done
<wrapster> guys it was all working fine .. but all of a sudden when dpkg-buildpackage was executed i get this http://pastie.org/652564
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> I note that seb's listed as the gnome-shell maintainer.  The last upload is missing a b-d on libcroco3-dev, and I was wondering whether he's got a maintainer-lock on gnome-shell.
<dholbach> RAOF: I don't think
<JDahl> I asked a question on #UbuntuOne,  but the channel seems idle...    after the latest Karmic updates, my Desktop folders got a green marker.  I gather this means that those folders have been synchronized with UbuntuOne servers - is that correct?  If so this is very questionable and unfortunate (to say the least), since I never asked any folders to uploaded
<dholbach> JDahl: that's bug 450112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450112 in ubuntuone-client "Entire Hard Drive Marked as ubuntuone-synchronized" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450112
<JDahl> dholbach, ok, thank you.
<RAOF> Hey, the new gnome-shell application- based alt-tab is pretty cool.
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone ack https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sabily-themes/+bug/449651 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449651 in sabily "FFe: Add a 64x64 logo for GDM theme." [Undecided,In progress]
<joaopinto> hum, gdm themes for karmic ?
<AnAnt> joaopinto: it's an icon theme, you can set GDM themes by setting GTK/Icon/Metacity themes for gdm user
<joaopinto> ah ok :)
<joaopinto> you mean, gtk/gnome themes for the gdm user :P
<AnAnt> btw, lintian version on REVU needs to be updated
<AnAnt> can some sponsor this: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6920 ? It's FFe request has been approved (LP 440153)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440153 in sabily "FFe: Add an xsplash theme for Sabily" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440153
<AnAnt> siretart: ping
<siretart`> AnAnt: pong
<AnAnt> siretart`: lintian version on REVU needs to be updated
<siretart`> AnAnt: ii  lintian             2.2.17ubuntu1       Debian package checker
<siretart`> AnAnt: I don't think so
<AnAnt> siretart`: it gives false alarms
<AnAnt> siretart`: one of the warnings it gives is: newer-standards-version 3.8.3 (current is 3.7.3)
<siretart`> AnAnt: older uploads are not re-scanned
<siretart`> sistpoty updated it last week
<AnAnt> ah
<\sh> moins...
<\sh> can someone do me a favor and try to rebuild latest karmic quilt package (sbuild would be great)
<Laney> \sh:
<Laney> 20 commands (17 passed, 3 failed)
<Laney> the mail stuff broke
<\sh> Laney, ok...my sbuild is ok :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/292281/ <- very same output I think
<Laney> yep
<\sh> wonderful
<Laney> i guess that test needs patching
<\sh> Laney, tried to do a backport of debhelper from karmic to jaunty..and I need karmics quilt..the very same happens on jaunty ;)
<Laney> heh
<wrapster> will anyone help me with a basic question on mercurial? here..
<\sh> bug #401982
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401982 in quilt "quilt_0.46-7 still same error on intrepid" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401982
<\sh> there it is
<\sh> Laney, please test the debdiff from bug #401982 pls :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401982 in quilt "quilt_0.46-7 still same error on intrepid" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401982
<AnAnt> ScottK: Hello, sabily-xsplash-artwork is in the new queue now
<ScottK> AnAnt: I saw that.  I'll try and have a look at it tonight.
<AnAnt> ScottK: thanks
<ari-tczew> is anybody here from security team?
<walterl> hi
<walterl> what are the odds of still getting an upstream release into karmic?
<joaopinto> walterl, you mean a new upstream version for an existing package ?
<walterl> joaopinto: yes
<joaopinto> !ffe
<ubottu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<walterl> joaopinto: yes, i've read that. is it still possible this close to the final freeze?
<joaopinto> afaik yes
<walterl> :D
<walterl> awesome, thanks
<Unggnu> hi all
<joaopinto> if you have a good ffe reason
<joaopinto> hello Unggnu
<ari-tczew> I have good ffe reason for my debdiff :P
<Unggnu> hi joaopinto
<Unggnu> Could somebody please look at this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mail-notification/+bug/435789
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435789 in mail-notification "mail-notification can't be compiled in Karmic because of missing libeel2-dev" [Undecided,New]
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, a bug fix does not require ffe, i think :P
<ari-tczew> yes, CVE fix
<Unggnu> It is annoying that mail-notification has SSL disabled but if I can build it on my own it isn't such a big problem. But even this isn't possible atm
<Unggnu> I don't know how the build system was able to compile mail-notification for Karmic with this
<stefanlsd> ari-tczew: try #ubuntu-hardened
<ari-tczew> thanks!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<randomaction> Unggnu: I think the problem is bug 443406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443406 in evolution "evolution-dev should depend on libgtkhtml3.14-dev and libebook1.2-dev" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443406
<Unggnu> randomaction, Why is this the problem?
<Unggnu> The problem with the SSL support of mail-notification is a stupid, chauvinistic license discussion. The problem that it isn't possible to compile it on our own is that a lib is missing/replaced but mail-notification still depends on it.
<\sh> kklimonda, need a sponsor for bug #447617?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447617 in python-django "DoS attack on Django 1.0.x and 1.1.x disclosed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447617
<randomaction> Unggnu: there's a new version in Debian which doesn't depend on libeel2-dev
<Unggnu> randomaction, I know but it isn't in Karmic :)
<Unggnu> That's why I am posting it here
<randomaction> it can't go there because it FTBFS
<Unggnu> ok, so it can be build too
<Unggnu> How was the build system able to compile mal notification for Karmic?
<Unggnu> *can't
<randomaction> I guess libeel2-dev was still available back in April
<Unggnu> randomaction, So what is the solution/planned?
<Unggnu> removing mail-notification :D
<randomaction> hmm, maybe I should subscribe sponsors to review my patch
<\sh> ls -al
<\sh> argl
<Unggnu> :)
<randomaction> but Evolution upstream suggests a different way of doing things, and I could use some help there
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<Unggnu> randomaction, Ok, now I understand the problem
<Unggnu> randomaction, What was/is the solution of Debian?
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<randomaction> Unggnu: just dropped the dependency, it's unnecessary
<Unggnu> randomaction, And it isn't possible for Karmic because of the Freeze?
<randomaction> Unggnu: it's quite possible, but it won't build anyway
<kklimonda> \sh: yes - I wasn't sure who to ask now that it was moved to main though
<\sh> kklimonda, yeah..that striked me, too..I thought it's still in universe..now I can't upload your change :(
<LLStarks> fabrice_sp, i have no idea how to do a proper debdiff nor do i care to subscribe to a new mailing list.
<LLStarks> bitpim isn't functional and the onus isn't on me to fix it when a patch is readily available.
<LLStarks> it's only a few lines of code ffs.
<micahg1> can I get an FFe for a phpmyadmin security update (it's already in debian)
<joaopinto> MichiSoft, afaik , if it's a bug fix you dont need an FFe
<joaopinto> ops, micahg
<micahg> joaopinto: so, I just subscribe motu-release?
<joaopinto> micahg, if you already have a proper debdiff, yes
<micahg> joaopinto: well, it would be an sync with debian I would think...do I still need a debdiff?
<joaopinto> oh, that's a sync request
<joaopinto> !sync
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync
<joaopinto> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<micahg> joaopinto: process is the same still?
<joaopinto> I guess so
<LLStarks> ah. micahg, can you look at this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitpim/+bug/395830
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395830 in bitpim "Bitpim crashes when communicating with phone" [Undecided,New]
<LLStarks> i mean joaopinto
<LLStarks> has a patch. only needs packaging.
<joaopinto> LLStarks, checking
<LLStarks> i have confirmed that it works btw
<joaopinto> LLStarks, it's a bit odd that the init function is called with arguments which have no purpose
<LLStarks> i only have a cursory familiarity with python.
<LLStarks> this is quite out of my league
<joaopinto> LLStarks, uper(requestheader,self).__init__(**dict) -> the dict is being passed for some reason.. however your init function is just a dumb function to prevent the error
<LLStarks> it's not my patch.
<LLStarks> it works though.
<LLStarks> function is restored.
<joaopinto> LLStarks, I will create a debdiff on the ground that it fixes for you, it wil be MOTUs to decide to accept it or not
<LLStarks> thank you.
<LLStarks> does bitpim have a designated packager?
<joaopinto> LLStarks, there is no such thing on Ubuntu, the packager is a team
<LLStarks> joaopinto, should i talk to Bhavani Shankar
<joaopinto> LLStarks, no idea who are you talking about :)
<LLStarks> the uploader of the current package.
<joaopinto> LLStarks, like I said, packages on Ubuntu are maintained by a team, MOTU
<joaopinto> I will also file a bug report for debian
<LLStarks> thanks again.
<joaopinto> LLStarks, could you test a .deb package just to be sure ? I mostly concerned about the identation of the code
<LLStarks> i kinda suck at packaging and listing deps.
<LLStarks> ]
<joaopinto> LLStarks, you just need to install the app, and test it with the case that was crashing
<LLStarks> oh ok.
<LLStarks> is the package on a ppa?
<joaopinto> no, i will upload it to an http server
<LLStarks> okay
<joaopinto> LLStarks, 32 or 64 bits ?
<LLStarks> i686
<joaopinto> it has some non python code
<joaopinto> LLStarks, http://abs.getdeb.net/bit/, please test the .debs from there
<LLStarks> still requires sudo access even after modifying the udev rules.
<LLStarks> or do i need to restart?
<LLStarks> thoughts joaopinto?
<LLStarks> also, these instructions haven't been fully integrated: http://www.bitpim.org/help/howto-linuxusb.htm
<joaopinto> LLStarks, sorry, baby time
<LLStarks> ah okay
<joaopinto> LLStarks, can I trigger the bug without a phone device ?
<LLStarks> joaopinto, not that i know of.
<joaopinto> ok, I didn't understood your questions, did you instal the packages I have built ?
<micahg> ping iulian
<LLStarks> yes.
<joaopinto> LLStarks, and it works as expected ?
<LLStarks> no. root should not be needed to read the devices.
<joaopinto> LLStarks, tha is another bug, one thing at the time, does it work with root with this patch ?
<LLStarks> yes.
<joaopinto> ok, debdiffing and subscribing sponsors
<LLStarks> here's the bug for root: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitpim/+bug/426736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 426736 in bitpim "bitpim requires sudo for usb detection" [Undecided,New]
<joaopinto> LLStarks, please add the instructions link to the bug report
<LLStarks> instructions?
<joaopinto> the one you posted here
<joaopinto> LLStarks, I am not familiar with udev rules, so that's nothing something I can work at this stage in development
<LLStarks> it's supposed to be 60-bitpim-rules
<LLStarks> not 40
<joaopinto> hum, that's just the load order I guess, does it fixed the problem for you ?
<LLStarks> it hasn't worked for a few weeks
<LLStarks> but i do recall it worked once
<joaopinto> ok, so let's fix it for lucid :P
<joaopinto> LLStarks, bug 395830 updated
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395830 in bitpim "Bitpim crashes when communicating with phone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395830
<fabrice_sp_> Hi about bug #425640: the FFe has been approved for 2.36-1, but Debian has 2.39-1. Is the ack valid or it should go for another FFe round?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425640 in get-iplayer "Please sync get-iplayer 2.36-1 from Debian" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425640
<micahg> ping mdeslaur re security update syncs from debian during FFe
<mdeslaur> micahg: yes?
<micahg> mdeslaur: I was wondering about the wireshark bug
<micahg> to upgrade to 1.2.2, if I should change it to a sync request
<Futbolista> juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
<micahg> bug 435817
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435817 in wireshark "[ffe-request] upgrade to wireshark 1.2.2 for security fixes" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435817
<mdeslaur> micahg: no, a ffe is fine, you need to subscribe motu-release to the bug though
<micahg> ok, so syncs need motu-release subscribe during ffe?
<micahg> and should I do the same for the phpmyadmin new release?
<mdeslaur> micahg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess look at the Universe section
<micahg> ok, thanks
<randomaction> fabrice_sp_: according to sistpoty in the comment #6 to this bug, I think a word from Debian maintainer would be enough
<fabrice_sp_> randomaction, that was my feeling, but I'm not sure ScottK would share this :-)
<randomaction> he can sync what he pleases anyway :)
<av`> mdeslaur, hi
<mdeslaur> hi av`
<av`> mdeslaur, there is a guy who is getting something strange with winbind on jaunty-updates, e.g fails to install
<mdeslaur> av`: oh?
<av`> mdeslaur, let me link you the bug
<av`> mdeslaur, the version he is complaining about is 2:3.3.2-1ubuntu3.2
<av`> mdeslaur, which is exactly the one on jaunty
<av`> mdeslaur, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/449814
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449814 in samba "amule" [Undecided,New]
<av`> mdeslaur, don't see the title, he missed the package
<av`> mdeslaur, in the beginning I thought he was running karmic
<av`> mdeslaur, but then I saw the 9.04 release on the report
<mdeslaur> av`: let me try, hold on
<av`> mdeslaur, k
<mdeslaur> av`: wow, that's a weird error
<mdeslaur> av`: I can't reproduce, unfortunately, it installs fine for me
<av`> mdeslaur, no one ever reported it, and if it is *really* broken it would have been reported
<mdeslaur> av`: yes. There's something broken on his machine, but beats me what it is
<av`> mdeslaur, I suggested him to give an apt-get update to refresh stuff
<av`> mdeslaur, or maybe he is using some unsupported repos
<av`> mdeslaur, e.g home-made ones
<av`> and not the official ones
<mdeslaur> av`: looks like his chown utility is broken
<mdeslaur> I mean chmod
<av`> yes
<mdeslaur> but whatever it is, It's not a bug with the package
<av`> mdeslaur, coreutils 6.10-6ubuntu1 [modified: bin/chmod]
<av`> mdeslaur, chmod broken
<av`> looks at dependencies file log
<mdeslaur> av`: yep, there you go
<av`> mdeslaur, let's close the report
<mdeslaur> av`: sure, go ahead
<av`> mdeslaur, thanks and sorry for bothering
<mdeslaur> av`: np!
<mdeslaur> av`: thanks to you
<av`> :)
<Technoviking> how do I add an ubuntu-bug report to an existing bug in LP?
<micahg> Technoviking: apport-collect BUGNUM
<fabrice_sp_> Do we know the date for the Final freeze for Universe?
<Technoviking> micahg: thanks
<zul> ScottK: ping can we get a FFE for ebox-dhcp-1.3 it was uploaded before feature freeze and never got into the archive
<norsetto> when is the last date when we can upload bug fixes without bothering motu-release?
<av`> 15 of october
<av`> is the final freeze --> motu-release needed
<av`> norsetto, ^^
<norsetto> av`,  ok, thx
<av`> you have two 1 day ~
<av`> depending on your timezone
<norsetto> av`, well, usually it is at 0utc on the given day ;-)
<sebner> hiuhi norsetto :D
<norsetto> sebner, ahoy
<av`> norsetto, then one day, but you can do some works during night then
<av`> eheh
<sebner> norsetto: everything fine down there?
<norsetto> av`, indeed, thats why I'm asking, I have hope to hunt down another one in one day ...
<norsetto> sebner, everything fine here in hell ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: why hell? =)
<norsetto> sebner, you said down there ...
<sebner> norsetto: I mean Italy :P
<norsetto> sebner, yes, isn't that hell !?
<av`> norsetto, I agree, italy is hell atm
<av`> norsetto, but it will get better soon
<norsetto> av`, sure, when the pigs will fly
<av`> lol
<sebner> norsetto: you are the one living down there so I have to believe what you are saying :D
<geser> Hi sebner, norsetto
<norsetto> geser,hi there
<av`> damn, geser alwais forgets to say hi to me
<sebner> laoha geser :D
<av`> pretty bad
<geser> Hi av`
<av`> geser, heya, I'm a bit sad now you said hi to everyone apart me : /
<av`> :)
<geser> av`: didn't recognize your new nick
<av`> geser, ah yeah, that's ok then :) I changed it like 2 weeks ago, so you couldnt know
<Bodsda> Hi, I sent an email to the motu mentors email about 4 days ago and did not receive a reply. I am really interested in getting involved but would like a mentor to shove me in the right direction. Can anyone advise what I should do?
<av`> Bodsda, ping porthose
<Bodsda> porthose: ping
<Bodsda> ty av`
<kklimonda> anyone up for sponsoring bug 450747?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450747 in cfv "Sync cfv 1.18.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450747
<fabrice_sp_> kklimonda, subscribe u-u-s. I'll have a look tomorrow morning
<porthose> Bodsda, pong, check your email inbox, I am working your application :).  FYI huats and nxvl are also on the team and can help you if I am not around.
 * porthose afk for a bit must take dog for a walk
<huats> porthose: get dholbach of that body (regarding the dog walk)
<Bodsda> porthose: checking now, thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-14
<LaserJock> anybody offhand know the syntax for doing a "if previous package version is less than <current version> then run this" for a postinst?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: an example from pulseaudio: dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt-nl "0.9.14-0ubuntu9"; then
<TheMuso> so if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt-nl "0.9.14-0ubuntu9"; then; then
<LaserJock> TheMuso: 2 then's?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: no
<TheMuso> sorry meant one
<TheMuso> I didn't realise I copied the then
<LaserJock> k, I was just making sure I wasn't going insane
<LaserJock> is that the only way to tell if a package is being upgraded as opposed to a new install?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: There is checking what is passed to the script in $1
<TheMuso> I think that can help some
<leonel> can someone check  bug 446838  if I've did the diffs  correct ??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446838 in squirrelmail "Multiple cross-site request forgery (CSRF) vulnerabilities in SquirrelMail 1.4.19 and earlier" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446838
<ScottK> zul: What's the story about ebox-dhcp?  Do you have an archive admin who will review it (I can't promise to have time)?
<zul> ScottK: Im not exactly sure what happened with it, I thought I uploaded it
<zul> ScottK: I got it now Im going to upload it
<kirkland> okay it's late
<kirkland> someone help me
<kirkland> what's the recipe for moving a file from one package to another, when both packages are going to be installed at the same time on the same system
<kirkland> conflicts/replaces i know
<kirkland> more detail please
<ScottK> kirkland: Replaces: kdebase-workspace-bin (<= 4:4.1.82-1) and Conflicts: kdebase-workspace-bin (<< 4:4.1.82) would be an example.
<kirkland> ScottK: thanks muchly
<ScottK> Note I edited that and they don't match exactlyu
<superm1> ScottK, would you mind looking over bug 432669?  I'm getting some questions already from people about it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432669 in lcdproc "Please update LCDproc to 0.5.3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432669
<ScottK> superm1: How useful is this package outside Mythbuntu?
<wrapster> apart from dpkg -S and apt-cache search is there any other way to find out info about the location of a particular file and see in which pkg it exists?
<superm1> ScottK, afaik, only useful in media center boxes
<superm1> so maybe it really should just be our call
<ScottK> superm1: I'd say you're call with your Mythbuntu hat then.
<superm1> ScottK, okay thanks
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Is dbus supposed to work in a chroot? I've just installed a package, and I'm getting "dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.apertium.info was not provided by any .service files" but the service file exists...
<dholbach> good morning
<MTecknology> dholbach: G'MORNING!!
<dholbach> hi MTecknology
<MTecknology> dholbach: you should join me in my quest
<dholbach> should I? :)
<MTecknology> I'm trying to compile an Ubuntu kernel that's less than 2.5MB, prefere 2.1
<MTecknology> but still giving me a fully usable system
<dholbach> no no no no no no no
<MTecknology> yes?
<dholbach> I stopped building kernels like 5-6 years ago
<dholbach> I'm happy thanks :)
<MTecknology> :P
<MTecknology> so far my .config is ~50% the ubuntu .config
<MTecknology> but - I don't have ext2,3, btrfs, etc. support. Only ntfs, fat, and ext4
<dholbach> good luck
<MTecknology> :P - thanks
<MTecknology> Do you know if there's much difference between vanilla kernel and ubuntu kernel branches aside from .configs?
<leaf-sheep> Hello, I'm wondering if I can request for a package to be updated? It have been long time since it got updated.
<azeem> is it updated in Debian?
<leaf-sheep> azeem: I don't know. I'll try and find out.
<leaf-sheep> azeem: Ubuntu + Debian --> Same package version.  I'm talking about the package -- cgoban
<wrapster> i have a tar file which contains only libraries that needs to sit in the /usr/include dir...
<wrapster> using this can i create a .deb pkg?
<wrapster> its urgent could you please help me?
<azeem> libraries don't sit in /usr/include
<leaf-sheep> azeem: http://www.gokgs.com/download.jsp
<leaf-sheep> azeem: It's at 3.3.26 -- I take it that it won't be updated until Debain do that?
<azeem> leaf-sheep: well, if it was updated in Debian, it would automatically get updated in Ubuntu once karmic is released
<leaf-sheep> azeem: Is there a particular debian-motu channel that I can request in?
<azeem> no, you can file a wishlist bug in the Debian bug tracker after checking whether there is one already
<leaf-sheep> azeem: I see. I'll do that.  Thank you. :)
<wrapster> azeem: sorry ... its header files.
<wrapster> this tarball only contains headerfiles that need to be in the above metioned dir.. i have a tar ball of it.. how can i create a pkg out of it..
<wrapster> how do i use the debhelper scripts?
<wrapster> whys is it that mkdir -p debian/mpsnexenta/usr/include/mps
<wrapster>         tar -C debian/mpsnexenta/usr/include/mps -zxf ../mps.tar.gz
<wrapster> if included in the rules file is creating something like this /usr/include/mps/usr/include/mps/
<walterl> hi
<walterl> python packagers: have anyone else run into the problem of data files being installed in dist-packages and source being installed in site-packages, causing pbuilder build to barf?
<geser> wrapster: do the files inside your mps.tar.gz contain a path?
<wrapster> geser: yeah.. and i resolved it.
<wrapster> geser: that was infact the issue
<sebner> huhu mok0 sistpoty|work :D
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<norax_> I am trying to look for a FTBFS bug, but http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html seems fallen. Any other list?
<norax_> ok. http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  I hadn't seen the topic.
<wgrant> norax_: Sorry - the Launchpad issues earlier made it a bit angry. Fixing now.
<wekt> where do bug reports on the 'alternative' debian install program go?  package debian-installer seems to be something different according to the description.
<dholbach> wekt: that depends on which part of it is failing - the people in #ubuntu-installer will know
<wekt> i think that puts me 1 step closer
<LordMetroid> Why was ibus choosen?
<LordMetroid> It lacks functionality, the katakana, hiragana, romaji change key for once doesn't seem to work
<LordMetroid> Hmm, maybe I am at the wrong place for these comments
<james_w> ScottK: did you decide on a date for final freeze for universe?
<james_w> ScottK: if so then I think announcing it on the list would be a good idea to alleviate some panic today :-)
<james_w> (apologies if you have and I missed it)
<directhex> give me until this evening - banshee 1.5.1 is finally out ;)
<ScottK> james_w: Good suggestion.  It'll be after the RC is out, so no need for people to panic.  I need to email the other motu-release people and get the exact time decided.
<james_w> ScottK: great, thanks
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: how about somewhen around 25th?
<siretart`> is that the release date?
<sistpoty|work> siretart`: no, release is 29th
<siretart`> oh, ok
<sistpoty|work> finalfreeze is just needing an ACK for each upload
<bdrung_> sistpoty|work: from whom?
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: universe: motu-release
<bdrung_> sistpoty|work: i wanted to hear irc nick names. :) seams so that you are on the list
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: that would be ScottK, iulian, vorian, nhandler and myself
<bdrung_> sistpoty|work: eclipse-cdt is totally outdated and does not work. is it possible to upload a new upstream release after final freeze?
<siretart`> bdrung_: do you manage to have a look at the mplayer-skin mess?
<bdrung_> siretart: sorry, no. maybe it works if mplayer-skins provides mplayer-skin (note: missing s)
<bdrung_> siretart: rl and eclipse consumes too much time.
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: I must admit that I'd prefer to have it done before final freeze (universe isn't final frozen yet)
<bdrung_> sistpoty|work: there is only one problem: it's not packaged yet.
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: then get working on it ;)
<bdrung_> sistpoty|work: we are still working on eclipse itself (will hopefully upload it today)
<sistpoty|work> ah, k
<siretart`> bdrung_: I don't think it's that easy :(
<siretart`> but ok
<bdrung_> siretart: cdt will probably easier than eclipse sdk.
<bdrung_> sistpoty|work: we have to remove eclipse-cdt from the archive if we do not manage it to update the package
<sistpoty|work> bdrung_: hm...
<joaopinto> eclipse right now does not allow to install plugins, or how do you call it on eclipse :P
<bdrung_> joaopinto: i will upload -0ubuntu3 which fixes this
<joaopinto> bdrung, great :)
<bdrung_> joaopinto: but there may be another issue...
<bdrung_> with some md5sums
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I do think we want cdt updated if it's packaged.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: *nod*, the sooner the better
<joaopinto> hum, did anyone test run grnotify before introducing it into the repository ?
<james_w> joaopinto: bug 413816 or bug 370524? :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 413816 in grnotify "[karmic] grnotify fails to install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 370524 in grnotify "GrNotify doesn't start due to module import error" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/370524
<joaopinto> james_w, a new one, the source seems broken to me
<james_w> does it need more bugs? :-)
<james_w> failing to install and failing to start would seem to be enough
<joaopinto> it fails to install due to a python-xml dependency
<joaopinto> it will install and run without it
<james_w> well it sounds like it doesn't follow the python policy correctly
<joaopinto> AttributeError: 'grnotify' object has no attribute 'getUnreadFeeds'
<joaopinto> now it misses a method definition
<jdong> install: build
<jdong>     python install.py local
<jdong> the heck??
<jdong> are we remotely supposed to package Python stuff this way?
<jdong> well I suppose it was initially packaged for Jaunty
<jdong> must've worked back then
<joaopinto> it does not run from a jaunty schroot
<jdong> lol ok then no more inventing excuses for the packager.
<joaopinto> and I dond't understand how it ever run anywhere, getUnreadFeeds is not on the upstream source tarball either
<joaopinto> oh wait, there is a getUnreadFeeds on GoogleReader.py
<joaopinto> urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized
<joaopinto> next
<sistpoty|work> hm... maybe we should remove it? doesn't look like there's upstream activity any longer
<joaopinto> I am trying to fix it but I will probably give up :P
<sistpoty|work> heh
<joaopinto> for some reason it is not sending the cookies received from the login method
<joaopinto> i's just trying to fetch https://www.google.com/reader/api/0/unread-count?all=true
<joaopinto> anyone experienced with urllib2 and cookies :P ?
<ScottK> iulian, vorian, nhandler, sistpoty|work: You have mail.
<sistpoty|work> hm... only spam so far /me waits a little bit longer until the carrier pidgeon arrives
 * iulian is waiting as well.
<ScottK> Sent it to your ubuntu.com addresses, so Canonical may take a little while to forward it on.
<ScottK> I checked my mail logs and they accepted it.
<sistpoty|work> well, it's a long way, so... *g*
<iulian> Indeed. :)
 * sistpoty|work looks at the glassbowl and assumes the mail will be there in ~2 minutes
<iulian> Ah-ha! It has just arrived.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<sebner> huhu bddebian :D
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work, sebner
<juin> Hi :) I'm co-developer of the game "Plee the Bear". I've seen that the version of the package in Karmic is 0.2.1 but we have uploader version 0.4.1 in Debian a few weeks ago. Is there a chance to have 0.4.1 included in Karmic?
<randomaction> !FFe | juin
<ubottu> juin: uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<joaopinto> juin, als you want to request  a sync from debian
<joaopinto> also
<randomaction> juin: today is a last day before FinalFreeze
<joaopinto> it is ??
<joaopinto> for universe ?
<Laney> no
<Laney> for main and restricted
<sistpoty|work> no, universe finalfreeze deadline is still being discussed
<joaopinto> ok :P
<randomaction> ah, sorry
<randomaction> today's u-d-a mail didn't make it totally clear for me
<Laney> there was a link to some old information for universe
<Laney> . o O ( should motu-release re-publish and update these documents each release?)
<juin> I did not find on the website of Ubuntu when the syncs from Debian occur, do you have a link for me?
<joaopinto> juin, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<juin> thanks
<Zhenech> .wi19
<Zhenech> upsala :)
<sebner> ScottK: do you know anything about a FFe for smuxi aka not needing one?
<ScottK> sebner: Is there a bug?
<sebner> ScottK: nope, bugfix (only?) release only
<ScottK> sebner: Then it doesn't need an FFe is it's bugfix only.
<sebner> ScottK: http://projects.qnetp.net/versions/show/9
<ScottK> sebner: I'll trust your judgement of if it's bugfix only
<sebner> ScottK: fine. thx
<fabrice_sp> randomaction, ping
<randomaction> fabrice_sp: hi
<fabrice_sp> Hi :-)
<fabrice_sp> I was having a look at bug #451332 and it seems that Debian already fixed the same bug in the next version of the package. Did you ahd a look at it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451332 in kpowersave "kpowersave 0.7.3-4ubuntu1 FTBFS with autoconf 2.64" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451332
<randomaction> no, but I should have :(
<randomaction> I think it's better to sync
<fabrice_sp> yes :-)
<fabrice_sp> it's not really a sync, I think that it seems some kubuntu patch has been there for a while, so perhaps it should be kept
<fabrice_sp> we can also 'import' the debian patch, and say that it comes for there in the changelog, and make easier the merger life in next merge :-)
<randomaction> ah, we also have a kubuntu-specific patch.
<fabrice_sp> yes
<ScottK> I'm gong to look at that
<randomaction> shall I transform it into a merge request?
<ScottK> Let me look at that patch first
<randomaction> sure
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> Super ScottK comes to the rescue :-)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp and randomaction: The patch can be dropped now that kpowersave is in Universe.
<randomaction> wow, it's from April 2004 :)
<fabrice_sp> so it can be a sync request, then. I'll test build the Debian package
<randomaction> ok, thanks fabrice_sp and ScottK
<fabrice_sp> randomaction, you take care of updating the bug report?
<randomaction> ok, just will test-build first
<randomaction> fabrice_sp: updated
<fabrice_sp> randomaction, ok. Can you just add the changelog entries since the actual version? This way, we will justify this sync :-)
<randomaction> Done. I'm no replacement to requestsync :)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> you can run requestsync, and paste the output, withotu send it ;-)
<leonel> can someone check bug 446838 if I've made the diffs  correct ??  thank  you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446838 in squirrelmail "Multiple cross-site request forgery (CSRF) vulnerabilities in SquirrelMail 1.4.19 and earlier" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446838
<directhex> jono!
<directhex> jono!jono!jono!jono!jono!jono!jono!
<sebner> jono \o/
<directhex> jonojonojonojonojono?
<mrooney|w> Are there specific rules for compiled things in a source package? For example if the normal distribution method for a certain Java package is shipping a .war file, can a .deb just ship the war and appropriate init scripts to make deployment more automated?
<mrooney|w> Obviously, it is possible to do that, for clarity my question is, can a package in say, universe do this
<ScottK> Not knowing anything about Java stuff, is a .war file the preferred form for modification?
<mrooney|w> ScottK: no that is the problem, it is basically a compiled Java package
<ScottK> mrooney|w: Then no.
<ScottK> It would need to go in multiverse
<ScottK> Licensing would need to allow redistribution.
<mrooney|w> I see, even if it points to the source which is properly licensed?
<ScottK> Yes, even if.
<directhex> mrooney|w, then the package can compile the .war at compile time, to build the deb
<ScottK> The source needs to be in the source package and the binary needs to be built from that source
<directhex> the only time it's acceptable to ship binaries in "source packages" is for bootstrapping (e.g. a c compiler is needed to compile a c compiler). this doesn't come under that heading
<mrooney|w> I see, okay.
<ScottK> And that's only OK as a temporary measure until you can upload one built from source.
<ScottK> We could never release with that.
<mrooney|w> I see, apparently it is challenging to build maven-based software according to debian policy, so that is why I was asking
<directhex> maven is indeed troublesome, afaik
<ScottK> Yep.
<mrooney|w> So I guess PPA or multiverse are the best options?
<directhex> there's one reason for mono adoption: our tools as packagers suck less
<mrooney|w> haha, maven is actually pretty awesome
<directhex> says the guy eyeing up multiverse!
<mrooney|w> haha, it makes it super trivial to build
<mrooney|w> not trivial to satisfy debian policy
<mrooney|w> oh well, thanks for the advice, now I know the options :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-15
<nhandler> I'm looking at pbuilder-dist. The man page shows a 'withlog' option that I can pass to store pbuilder's output on a file. However, the example is not working for me. Is this simply an error in the man page? Or is a bug in the script itself?
<Laney> nhandler: weird. The log is always stored in ~/pbuilder/xxx/last_operation.log
<Laney> well I think you can pass something to override that, but I am pretty sure that withlog does nothing
<Laney> mainonly is similarly not there afaik
<Laney> nope, that one is
 * Laney runs
<nhandler> I'll check if this was fixed in the karmic version of ubuntu-dev-tools (I have jaunty). If not, I'll file a bug
<Laney> i'm looking at the bzr source
<Laney> I think the withlog example should just be removed
<Laney> and a note explaining where the logfile is saved added
<Laney> anyway, nn
<hyperair> anyone from motu-release here? i'd like to discuss something regarding banshee and karma-sharp
<hyperair> it seems banshee hasn't been detecting karma-sharp due to a bug in libkarma's packaging which resulted in karma-sharp.pc having a blank "Version: " field.
<ScottK> hyperair: OK
<hyperair> and this has happened since... before jaunty
<hyperair> i think
<ScottK> OK, still a bug, right?
<hyperair> i'm wondering whether it's okay at this point to fix karma-sharp
<hyperair> still a bug, yes
<hyperair> but i'm wondering whether it's fine to fix karma-sharp and then get banshee uploaded
<hyperair> oh yeah speaking of which 1.5.1 is out
<hyperair> and awaiting sync
<ScottK> My view is feel free to fix bugs.
<hyperair> okay then
<dholbach> good morning
<hyperair> morning
<quadrispro> slomo: I'm committing transmageddon to the SVN
<slomo> quadrispro: great, thanks :) is it in ubuntu already?
<quadrispro> no, it isn't
<quadrispro> upstream includes the debian dir, so I did repack the tarball
<quadrispro> however, the package is already available on mentors
<slomo> quadrispro: oh? i'll talk with christian to remove the debian dir for next release
<quadrispro> excellent, I did the same with the arista's upstream to the same
<quadrispro> hope to see a new release soon
<quadrispro> that's the URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/t/transmageddon/transmageddon_0.14-1.dsc
<quadrispro> slomo: let's move to #debian-multimedia ;)
<surfzoid2> Hi
<surfzoid2> directhex: did you remember me about my install dll in the gac problem ?
<directhex> surfzoid2, remnid me
<surfzoid2> i build deb for 2 of my soft, they have 2 dll i need to register in the gac, but after an success build, if i install the deb which have one of the dll, my soft didn't find it in the gac
<surfzoid2> so you was sugest me some cmd in dsc and control file
<surfzoid2> directhex: but it not working too, perhap's where am i wrong , is the fact i dont have any debian build file in the tarball of my source program
<directhex> surfzoid2, right
<surfzoid2> ?
<surfzoid2> directhex: the builded file is here http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/surfzoid:/DebianUbuntu/xUbuntu_9.04/amd64/syntaxhighlighting_1.0.1.3_amd64.deb
<directhex> surfzoid2, can you upload your source package somewhere so i can take a look, rather than all this back-and-forth ?
<surfzoid2> directhex: have you got an novell account ?
<surfzoid2> directhex: are you able to log here https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=SyntaxHighlighting&project=home%3Asurfzoid%3ADebianUbuntu
<surfzoid2> this is the best place to see all, source and build file
<surfzoid2> directhex: i remember, i have requested a packaging : https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/443398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443398 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] MonoOSC" [Wishlist,New]
<surfzoid2> directhex: always here ?
<debfx> is a motu-release member around?
<sistpoty|work> debfx: what's up?
<debfx> sistpoty|work: I want to get virtualbox-guest-additions synced from debian to match the version of virtualbox-ose: bug #450803
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450803 in virtualbox-guest-additions "Sync virtualbox-guest-additions 3.0.8-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450803
<sistpoty|work> debfx: if it's bugfix only, no need to contact motu-release about it (yet... date for final freeze of universe is still t.b.d.)
<debfx> sistpoty|work: ah ok, didn't know that final freeze doesn't affect universe yet
<dtchen> ajmitch: / RainCT: you'll want apt-get install linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic-generic
<RainCT> dtchen: thanks! :)
<Laney> porthose: I don't really have time to do any mentoring ATM, you should probably remove me from the list
<porthose> Laney will do, ty :)
<dtchen> jdstrand: you'll want apt-get install linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic-generic
<dtchen> jdstrand: (WRT your sound bug)
<jdstrand> dtchen: yeah. I got the bug mail and will do it today
<jdstrand> dtchen: thanks! :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> uh da barry ;)
<sebner> huuhu bddebian \sh :D
<bddebian> Heya \sh, sebner
<Laney> ello
<\sh> uh oh new rammstein song + video != office compatible
<stani> ScottK, POX: is the fix of bug #448993 also applied to the debian PAPT repository?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448993 in phatch "Base command line option is deprecated" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448993
<stani> sorry POX, ScottK, I mean Bug #450800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450800 in phatch "package phatch 0.2.1-4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/applications/phatch.desktop', which is also in package phatch-cli 0:0.2.1-4" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450800
<stani> POX, ScottK: I am doing another bugfix release now 0.2.4, but this patch should be in debian
<stani> POX, ScottK: I've added this fix myself to Debian, POX please check if I did it right before uploading the new 0.2.4 release
<jdstrand> dtchen: hey. re bug #400682> still no sound. I updated the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400682 in linux "[Karmic stac9227 regression] No sound after upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400682
<benste> HI, I just tried starting to install pbuilder and so on, is it usual that "sudo pbuilder create
<benste> " stops at "I: Retrieving libssl0.9.8
<benste> I: Validating libssl0.9.8
<benste> I: Retrieving libstdc++6
<benste> " ?
<dtchen> jdstrand: updated
<benste> should I abort with CTRL +C  ? - or will this cause damage ?
<benste> no one posting here ?
<hyperair> benste: it should be downloading packaging
<hyperair> packages*
<hyperair> if you've got a faster internet connection it'll complete very fast
<benste> hyperair: hi, network and CPU is idle so I guess it's doing nothing
<hyperair> otherwise it'll take some time
<hyperair> i guess it timed out =\
<hyperair> or rather, the connection broke but it hasn't timed out
<benste> so CTRL +C and retry ?
<hyperair> use a different mirror?
<hyperair> yeah ctrl+c
<benste> k
<hyperair> use a different --mirror
<hyperair> preferably one that's near you
<benste> - inet connection isn't a real problem for me - and cause it's karmic I don't like to switch to a local mirror
<jdstrand> dtchen: added, but they are all the same. I did cat /proc/asound/card*/codec* > ... in each scenario you asked for
<dtchen> !
<dtchen> uh, that can't be good
<benste> hyperair:  - worked - successfully installed
<hyperair> benste: good to hear.
<dtchen> jdstrand: hmm, the lack of jack events is very disconcerting. When you have a moment, please see if all three codec dumps for those scenarios described in the bug report are identical after a powercycle
<jdstrand> dtchen: a power cycle between each?
<dtchen> jdstrand: not necessary
<dtchen> jdstrand: just between loading of 2.6.31-14.47's snd-hda-intel and lbm's
<jdstrand> ok, I just tried 2.6.32-rc4 and am back in 2.6.31-14.47-generic
<jdstrand> dtchen: is there an easy way to unload the necessary modules?
<jdstrand> lsmod shows me a lot
<dtchen> jdstrand: you'll need to disable PA autospawn and kill PA first
<dtchen> jdstrand: echo autospawn = no|tee -a ~/.pulse/client.conf && killall pulseaudio
<dtchen> jdstrand: then, sudo alsa force-unload
<jdstrand> dtchen: ok. I did an actual power cycle and got behind an fsck when you responded
<dtchen> jdstrand: hmm, normal shutdown or finger salute? ext4?
<jdstrand> dtchen: it looks like there is a difference this time
<dtchen> whew!
<jdstrand> dtchen: it was a warm reboot
<jdstrand> unfortunately, ext3 on a large partition (256G!)
<jdstrand> dtchen: not_inserted and hp_inserted are the same
<jdstrand> dtchen: rearjack_inserted is different
<dtchen> jdstrand: ok, do you mind attaching those dumps this time, please?
<jdstrand> dtchen: already done
<dtchen> ok, thanks (i'm slow!)
<dtchen> jdstrand: do you have a codec dump (with hp inserted into front hp jack) from a working [audible sound] kernel?
<jdstrand> dtchen: I should be able to get one. jaunty worked and I still have 2.6.28-13-generic laying around
<jdstrand> it'll be a few minutes though
<dtchen> jdstrand: awesome.
<dtchen> jdstrand: at your convenience
<benste> guys looks like it's  bit late for me, but could someone of you tell me what would be wrong with the following expression ?
<benste> karmicvm@karmicVM:~/hello$ tar xfz hello-2.4.tar.gz
<benste> as far as I read from MAN xf is extracting and z would be care about Gzipped wouldn't it ?
<mathiaz> benste: try : tar xzf hello-2.4.tar.gz
<benste> karmicvm@karmicVM:~/hello$ tar xzf hello-2.4.tar.gz
<benste> karmicvm@karmicVM:~/hello$ ls
<benste> hello-2.4.tar.gz  ubuntu
<benste> mathiaz: - no new directory created - does I have to mention where to unpack ?
<mathiaz> benste: it should unpack in the current directory
<mathiaz> benste: is the file a correct tar file?
<mathiaz> benste: you can see the content of the archive (without extracting it) with tar tzf ...tar.gz
<benste> I hope so otherwise the motu how to would be completely confusing
<benste> karmicvm@karmicVM:~/hello$ tar tzf hello-2.4.tar.gz
<benste> ends up with nothing
<benste> I'll use file-roller which laways worked fine before :-9
<benste> mathiaz: strange file-roller creates a new empty dir
<benste> possibly the archive is really damaged
<benste> mathiaz: could you try wget http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.4.tar.gz
<benste> strange downloading with FF in my host system gave a huge ammount of files
<mathiaz> benste: everything works correclty here
<benste> mathiaz: downloaded again with wget again and now it works - strange -
<benste> mathiaz: thanks for answering and trying
<jdstrand> dtchen: I attached the output to the bug, but it seems that karmic userspace may have changed too much to actually have sound work (see the bug). I tried to boot into a jaunty livecd, but my machine wouldn't boot off of it
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I fixed a package in Karmic that was making some packages to fail in the rebuild test. Is it possible to retry to build them?
<fabrice_sp> cacao is one of them
<ajmitch> dtchen: thanks, I saw you mention that on your blog
<dtchen> jdstrand: try passing the module index from (pactl list|grep -B1 "Name: module-udev-detect") to pactl unload-module
<jdstrand> dtchen: I'm back into a karmic kernel. do you need this for debugging?
<dtchen> jdstrand: sorry, this would be in the jaunty kernel
<jdstrand> dtchen: right-- was my attached output not good enough?
<dtchen> jdstrand: however, you should still be able to test in the jaunty kernel (w/ karmic userspace) for audible playback with speaker-test -c2 -Dplughw:0
<dtchen> jdstrand: i interpreted your comment as "sound's not audible now even if i use the jaunty kernel"
<jdstrand> dtchen: no, I was really only trying to communicate that I couldn't verify today that it still worked on that kernel. I know it used to on Jaunty.
<jdstrand> dtchen: if you would like me to boot into it and verify, I can do that
<dtchen> jdstrand: well, at your convenience, really. i'll assume that playback is still okay with jaunty's kernel given the codec, but it would be good to follow up on the bug report at some point with verification
<dtchen> jdstrand: thanks for your time
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> dtchen: I am in the jaunty kernel
<jdstrand> dtchen: speaker-test -c2 -Dplughw:0 does not work:
<jdstrand> ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1433:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card
<jdstrand> Playback open error: -2,No such file or directory
<surfzoid> directhex: Funny, now, my dll are in the GAC, but, when i install my GUI soft which require the dll, apt-get don't install it, bad dependency :-)
<jdstrand> dtchen: one would think that I would start to get proficient at sound because of this bug, but I still feel like I don't really know what I am doing
<jdstrand> dtchen: should I kill pulseaudio?
<dtchen> jdstrand: let's migrate to -bugs, please
<surfzoid> directhex: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=SyntaxHighlighting&project=home%3Asurfzoid%3ADebianUbuntu
<fabrice_sp> When building oprofile, I'm getting this error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libbfd-2.19.92.20091014.so. How can I fix it?
<ari-tczew> hello
<fabrice_sp> Hey ari-tczew
<ari-tczew> anybody know what about maven2?
<MTecknology> bug 410407
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410407 in flashplugin-nonfree "flash does not recognise mouse clicks" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410407
<MTecknology> not really for you guys - but gnash doesn't have this issue if you care at all
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/junit/+bug/427539/comments/33
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427539 in maven2 "[FFe] Sync libmaven packages from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New]
<blueyed> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html is incorrect/not up-to-date: nginx is 0.7.62-1 in unstable, since a while already.
<blueyed> This is a bugfix release.. is it to late to get it into Karmic?
<blueyed> bug 450874
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450874 in nginx "Consider releasing Karmic with nginx 0.7.62 vs patched 0.7.61" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450874
<ajmitch> blueyed: not impossible, but it will definitely need a freeze exception from motu-release
<blueyed> ajmitch: ok. but first I need to resolve the problem not being able to use grab-merge though..
<ajmitch> do the merge manually
<ajmitch> MoM is just a useful helper
<ianm_> anyone feel like helping to package this?  http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com/2009/10/11/new-gui-input-device-manager-for-luz-music-visualizer   it's a suite of two ruby apps and two C++ apps, with 100% of dependencies already in repos
<blueyed> ajmitch: very useful in this case.. how should I do it?
<ajmitch> just apply all the relevant changes that need to be kept to the debian package, and make sure you list them in the changelog
<blueyed> ajmitch: ..and merge old changelogs entries, too, at least.. I'll give it a try.
<ajmitch> if ubuntu only has changes that can be dropped, then request a sync, subscribe the right teams
<ajmitch> which should be motu-release at this stage, I think
<ajmitch> getting the debdiff between 0.7.61-1 & 0.7.61-1ubuntu2 can help in seeing what was changed
<ajmitch> in case someone's not shown everything in the changelog
<blueyed> ajmitch: works ok using BeyondCompare.. I can only imagine it would be to only use diff and vim, for example..
 * blueyed still wonders why there's no script doing grab-merge's job in ubuntu-dev-tools..
<ajmitch> well MoM's source is available on LP :)
<blueyed> one reason less.. ;)
<blueyed> Subscribing motu-release and asking for ACK is enough?
<ajmitch> feel free to write something to ubuntu-dev-tools then
<blueyed> I'll attach the debdiff
<ajmitch> I don't know, it's in the final freeze time
<blueyed> could not find anything in the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Home?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=mtou-release&fullsearch=Text
<ajmitch> but it should get some feedback at least - make sure you can justify the new upstream release
<blueyed> typo.. :/
<blueyed> same with typo though.. yes. I'll subscribe them and provide the debdiff.. it's bugfix only (nearly) and been released a while ago already. running fine for me already, too.
<ajmitch> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-April/025259.html
<ajmitch> which was referenced in a recent post on ubuntu-devel-announce
<bdrung> any motu-release team member here who can have a look at bug #452430?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452430 in phatch "Please sync phatch 0.2.4-1 (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452430
<stani> ScottK: ping
<bdrung> stani: hi
<stani> hi
<stani> hi bdrung
<bdrung> stani: didn't know, that you are prominent (you have your own wiki page)
<stani> bdrung: this was to apply for ubuntu membership, as it is one of the requirements
<bdrung> stani: i am referring to wikipedia
<stani> bdrung: I wouldn't say that having a wiki page makes someone prominent
<stani> bdrung: ah ok
<bdrung> and a 5 euro coin with your design. respect
<stani> bdrung: yes that was a lucky shot
<bdrung> i read that in the news
<stani> bdrung: btw the coin is now in the final of the Dutch Design Awards
<bdrung> wow
<stani> saturday the winner will be announced, but i don't expect to win
<stani> bdrung: so phatch is my contribution to creative free software ;-)
<bdrung> you have only 22.000 search result. that's less than me (and does nothing that is such public-oriented)
<stani> bdrung: that is because i never use my full name for free software activities
<stani> bdrung: otherwise my artistic acitivities would get lost in the 'free' ocean
<bdrung> ;)
<sebner> ylatuya_: already in ubuntu btw ;)
<ylatuya_> sebner, I saw it!
<ylatuya_> sebner, You work very fast ;)
<sebner> ylatuya_: freeze is near we have to :P
<ylatuya_> sebner, I was really impressed how soon it entered in Debian
<sebner> ylatuya_: well, you have to know some people if you know what I mean ..
<ylatuya_> sebner, Give your adressbook, though :)
<sebner> heh
<sebner> ylatuya_: I think I'll take a look at chronojump this weekend too can't promise _anything_ though
<ylatuya_> sebner, There is no rush at all. I know that soon or later you'll help us with chronojump
<sebner> ylatuya_: :), I'm wondering about your debian folder commits though. (luckily no in the source tarball)
<ylatuya_> sebner, It's not in the tarball but we keep everything in the git repo:http://git.gnome.org/cgit/chronojump/tree/
<ylatuya_> sebner, BTW, I realized that some the current release contains some headers with the olf FSF adress. Is that something that you can patch in the packagin or do we have to make a new release for that?
<sebner> ylatuya_: neither nor, you can wait until your regular next release. It's not really an important issue
<ylatuya_> sebner, Which is the current plicy for updating a package once karmic, for instance, has been released. I mean, if the current version of LongoMatch in karmic is 0.15.3 , future releases (always in the 0.15.X series) will be also part of karmic?
<ScottK> stani: Pong
<sebner> ylatuya_: unless you request a backport (is then in the repo karmic-backports) no
<ylatuya_> sebner, Ok, it's something I was wondering because it wasn very clear for me.
<stani> ScottK: I was wondering if there was any chance to get phatch-0.2.4 in Karmic
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-16
<lamalex> Is there a simple way find what packages depend on package foo?
<mathiaz> lamalex: apt-cache rdepends package-name
<ari-tczew> apt-cache rdepends foo
<lfaraone_> ScottK: would it be too late to upload calibre 0.6.17 to karmic, if I were to prepare a debdiff? (0.6.17 fixes  numerous bugs present since 0.6.13)
<rmjb> hello? anyone here?
<rmjb> I want to fix a bug in a package for karmic
<lamalex> rmjb: great, go for it
<rmjb> my question is on the SRU
<rmjb> thanks for the response lamalex
<lamalex> anytime
<rmjb> it's this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/backintime/+bug/409130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 409130 in backintime "launching backintime fails to start" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<rmjb> there's already a fix and branch linked, how do I get that into the karmic package?
<theholyduck> would it be possible to get the opencore-amr codecs added to backports for various ubuntu versions? (jaunty mainly). or is this totally the wrong channel for asking this?
<theholyduck> i guess i could just get the debs and install them and hope nothing breaks, but some official solution would be better
<_Andrew> In the .install file is there a way to prevent files from being installed in a package?
<_Andrew> Maybe something like "usr/include/*\n ^usr/include/*NOTWANTED"  ??
<_Andrew> So it wouldn't include any files with the name blahblahNOTWANTED ?
<Teddy_> Hi there.  My package needs updating from Debian testing.  This is the right place, right?
<Teddy_> The package's name is "mandos", and Ubuntu has version 1.0.11, and Debian testing has had 1.0.12 for a while now, which fixes several bugs.
<philwyett> Teddy_, See the email just posted by ScottK @ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-October/000634.html
<Teddy_> philwyett: Hmm, that seems to say that the deadline has *not* been passed.
<philwyett> Teddy_, Indeed. You can always subscribe to the motu list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu) and ask how to get your update pulled.
<Teddy_> philwyett: I was hoping to avoid subscribing to yet another mailing list and just ask here instead...
<philwyett> Teddy_, Wait for ScottK to appear and he will most likely be able to help you out.
<Teddy_> philwyett: Sounds like a plan.
<philwyett> lol
<philwyett> Teddy_, Just to ask being that it is only a minor revision number bump, it is only a bug fix release with no new features and API changes?
<Teddy_> philwyett: Yes, that is correct.  1.0.11 -> 1.0.12
<philwyett> Teddy_, Cool, I can see no reason for it not to be pulled. :-)
<Teddy_> philwyett: Me neither; I expected it to be done semi-automatically, but the date keeps creeping closer and I'm getting worried.
<philwyett> Teddy_, merge-o-matic does pull automatically up to a certain time before release. It's last run was early Sept.
<Teddy_> philwyett: I see that the package entered Debian testing on Oct 1.  I though it was less recent than that.  Oh well, "missed it by *that* much".
<philwyett> Teddy_, Seems so. I only know the last run as I am subscribed to way too many lists. ;-)
<philwyett> Teddy_, To learn about motu, you can read all about it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<philwyett> Teddy_, This section will be of particular interest https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<Teddy_> philwyett: Oo, looks interesting
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, if it's a bug fixing only, and the package compile/install/run in Ubuntu, it's still possible to have it in KArmic
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Yes, so I've come to understand.  But the question still remains: How do I get the package to actually update/sync?
<fabrice_sp> !sync
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync
<fabrice_sp> :-/
<fabrice_sp> you can use requestsync in Ubuntu
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Well, I don't actually *run* Ubuntu...
<fabrice_sp> oh
<fabrice_sp> you should :-D
<fabrice_sp> what is the package name?
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: I'm happy with Debian.
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: The package is "mandos".
<fabrice_sp> ok: I'll test build it, and if it works, I'll send it
<wrapster> if i have a pkg built only for 32bit.. how do i compile it for 64 as well? eg : libtspi-dev
<wrapster> where should i be looking and for what?
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Oh wow, that would be great!
<fabrice_sp> is there an upstream changelog somewhere? (just to check that it's a bug fixing only release)
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Hmm, w8
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: You'll have to use the VC browser: http://bzr.fukt.bsnet.se/loggerhead/mandos/release/changes
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, ok. I'll have a look, and in the meantime, I will testbuild/install it
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Thanks a lot!
<wrapster> guys can anyone help me?
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, thanks to contribute with this app and Debian packaging :-)
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, where are you compiling it?
<BlueT_> #302330 the xmail bug in Hardy exist for a long time, and there's somebody have a patch with it
<BlueT_> anyone can help to apply/commit it? :)
<fabrice_sp> bug #302330
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 302330 in xmail "package xmail 1.22-5 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/302330
<wrapster> fabrice_sp: on ubuntu 64
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, the installation is ok, but it fails to run in a chroot, with a python exception on dbus. Is it a known issue?
<fabrice_sp> BlueT_, subscribe Ubuntu Sponsors for Universe to the bug report, and put a debdiff
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Well, the mandos server needs an avahi daemon running, which in turn need a d-bus daemon.  I guess that could be it?
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, so do I. How do you compile it? With a pbuilder?
<BlueT_> fabrice_sp: i know that's the best way and I'd really like to do so for a long time :)
<BlueT_> fabrice_sp: but before that...
<wrapster> fabrice_sp: no
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: D-Bus communicates over a Unix domain socket, which probably is not connected inside the chroot.
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, yes: I get a connection refused to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket
<wrapster> im very new to this .. so ,so far what i've been doing is to download the source.. do necessary modifications...(to suit my requirements) then build it...
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: You need a D-Bus daemon (and an Avahi daemon) running inside the chroot then.
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, then, how are you building it?
<wrapster> but as an example ,i want libtspi-dev in 64 but not availbale.. so would like to compile for it.
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, shouldn't that be pulled by dependencies?
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: They should be, and they are, as far as I know.
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, install a pbuilder, in amd64 flavor, and you will be able to compile it, if you have Ubuntu running  the amd64 flavor
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, could be a problem of using a chroot. I'll try in a VM
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Yeah, that should work fine
<mzz> wrapster: it's probably possible to do something screwy with bindmounts to get the system's bus socket to show up inside the chroot (doing that instead of running a second chrooted system bus may or may not make sense)
<mzz> wrapster: (specifically: a second bus is a nonissue, but if that seconds bus starts a second networkmanager confusing stuff might happen)
<wrapster> oh
<mzz> err, do I have the wrong nick?
<fabrice_sp> BlueT_, so, what are you expecting? :-D
<fabrice_sp> mzz, I think it was for Teddy_  :-)
<mzz> thanks
<mzz> well, see above
<fabrice_sp> and for myself (as user :-) )
<wrapster> mzz: / fabrice_sp: im just starting off without understanding the issues ... so could you point out to any resource online that i can use to learn the nitty gritty issues of compiling for 64B
<mzz> wrapster: are you doing your compiling on a 64 bit system? :)
<wrapster> mzz: yeah
<wrapster> i think i know that much at leat :D
<mzz> wrapster: if you don't actually have a 64bit system it might be easiest to just use a ppa
<fabrice_sp> !pbuilder
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, ^
<mzz> wrapster: otherwise I'm a fan of sbuild's lvm support, which is a bit slow but very thorough
<mzz> also, that
<BlueT_> fabrice_sp: dunno how much time it would take for the MOTU application, and would like the patch to be applied if there's anyone can do so before me :p
<fabrice_sp> it rocks with apt-cacher-ng! :-)
<fabrice_sp> BlueT_, sponsorship is different than MOTU application
<fabrice_sp> sponsorship is when you you get a debdiff or a patch uploaded by a MOTU
<fabrice_sp> you have to get 'some' pathees/debdiff sponsored before being able to apply fo MOTUship
<Teddy_> mzz: When is it important to be able to run in a chroot?  My application just uses the Avahi libraries; should it be my responsibility to know that it's using D-Bus and provide some workaround for running chroot:ed?
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, I would say no
<mzz> Teddy_: I wouldn't bother doing anything special unless you know many of your users are going to run it chrooted for some reason
<fabrice_sp> that's why I have a VM (not updated since a long time, btw)
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: OK, that's good then.
<Teddy_> mzz: No, there's no particular reason.
<fabrice_sp> yes: I'm updating it (192 Mb to download)
<mzz> Teddy_: especially because frequently you simply *cannot* offer a sane chroot-specific mode
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: I thought I *had* an Ubuntu image for QEMU, but it seems to have gotten corrupted somehow.  I'm downloading installation media now to recreate it.
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, ok. It seems updating my vm will take 15 min :-/
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: 24 min left to download the DVD here...
<fabrice_sp> DVD?!
<mzz> meh, dvds
<fabrice_sp> you could have downloaded only the CD :-)
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: That's what was there for karmic beta
<fabrice_sp> and no CD? Strange
<mzz> then you found a weird download link
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/karmic/beta/
<mzz> yeah, don't use that, use the regular mirrors
<mzz> http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/ for example
<Teddy_> mzz: Thanks!
<mzz> well, might as well use the dvd if you've already grabbed most of it, I'm assuming it'll work
<Teddy_> mzz: No, only got about 25%
<Teddy_> mzz: 5 min remaining on CD download...
<mzz> heh
<fabrice_sp> BlueT_, the patch has not been seen because it's attached to a duplicate... And u-u-s has not been subscribed
<fabrice_sp> still 8 minutes to update my vm
<fabrice_sp> mandos is very qucik to compile, so it should quick after :-)
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: It'll take ages for me to install a new OS so I think you'll beat me.  :)
<fabrice_sp> I think so :-D
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Yeah, the C programs are small and the server is in Python, so yeah, quick to compile. :)
<MTecknology> When using xdm in Ubuntu, the logo used is Debian. It makes people think I'm using Debian and not Ubuntu. If I submitted a fix for it, would it be able to be in the repos or could there be issues in that?
<BlueT_> fabrice_sp: trying to figure what should I do now
<fabrice_sp> BlueT_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<fabrice_sp> Preparing new revisions part
<BlueT_> fabrice_sp: checking
 * fabrice_sp is still updating his Karmic VM :-/
 * Teddy_ is still installing a new Karmic :)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<Teddy_> ..In a QEMU.
<fabrice_sp> I'm using Virtualbox for virtualization
 * hyperair updates his karmic installation which isn't in a VM :)
<maco> hyperair: may i PM?
<hyperair> go ahead
<hyperair> but i have to go soon so make it quick
<BlueT_> KVM's nice
<fabrice_sp> Teddy_, it installs fine in a VM. I'll request & ack the sync request
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Wonderful.
<Teddy_> fabrice_sp: Thanks a lot!
<fabrice_sp> yw ;-)
<dholbach> good morning
<_Andrew> Anyone know why "dh_install ... -XCEGUI" includes CEGUI files in my package?
<highvoltage> morning jono!
<jono> hey highvoltage :)
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> is anyone using karmic with 2.6.31-14 official kernel? well, it gives me kernel panic cuz it's unable to mount rootfs (ext4) 2.6.31-11 works.
<mzz> goshawk: seems to work for me
<mzz> goshawk: (my root is ext4 in lvm on ide)
<goshawk> mzz: exactly the same here
<goshawk> but i've just installed karmic and did the update.. i should investigate more
<mzz> goshawk: actually that sounds as if it's not mounting the initrd
<goshawk> uhm... i can force a initramfs rebuild
<mzz> goshawk: do you have enough output when it panics to tell if the initramfs mounted?
<goshawk> no
<mzz> if for whatever grub isn't feeding it that it won't boot at all if you're using lvm
<goshawk> i just see that line
<goshawk> i think initramfs is not mounted
<goshawk> cuz i don't see the usplash logo too
<goshawk> (which is in initramfs
<mzz> I'd boot off something bootable and doublecheck the initrd is in the right place and /boot/grub/grub.cfg makes sense
<goshawk> i'm on 2.6.31-11 now, which works
<mzz> that's weird, unless you're missing the initrd for 14 or grub.cfg is borked
<goshawk> running update-initramfs -k all -c
<mzz> (your symptoms sound exactly right for grub trying to boot without feeding the kernel a working initrd)
<goshawk> yep
<goshawk> so i'm rebooting
<goshawk> and see what wil happen
<goshawk> mzz: solved
<goshawk> it works now
<mzz> hmm, odd. Wonder how it broke
<goshawk> me too
<goshawk> hope i'm a odd case
<goshawk> time to go for me
<goshawk> see you
<joaopinto> hello
<joaopinto> how do we request a package removal ?
<sistpoty|work> joaopinto: file a bug specifying which package and why it should get removed and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<geser> check rdepends, check rbuilddepends, file a bug with any info you find (like no r(build)depends, debian removal bugs) and apply the usual sponsoring (if needed)
<joaopinto> ok, gave up on grnotify
<joaopinto> does it make sense to mark all the "package is broken" bugs as duplicates from the removal request ?
<Laney> joaopinto: no
<Laney> there's no point tracking bugs on a removed package
<Laney> except maybe for sru
<joaopinto> Laney, so what will happen to the open bugs ?
<Laney> they'll stay
<joaopinto> and what's the point of keeping bugs for a package which is no longer on the archive ?
<Laney> history
<Laney> srus
<Laney> if it's ever reintroduced
<joaopinto> that may represent introducing infite bugs, aren't closed bugs ketps for history already ?
<joaopinto> also it gives the bug reporter some expectation that someone will work on the bug, which is not the case
<geser> joaopinto: just because you remove the package from the archive, it doesn't automatically disappear from the users systems so it might be good for them to still see the unfixed bugs
<joaopinto> geser, the app does not work, and never worked
<joaopinto> actually on karmic is not even installable
<Laney> there's no reason we could not SRU a removed package
<geser> joaopinto: did it work in jaunty? or was it broken there too?
<joaopinto> geser, yes, at least from my test in a chroot
<joaopinto> it was a bad revu package
<joaopinto> ubuntu only
<Laney> you know
<Laney> this might be good for a revu case study
<joaopinto> anyway, enough effort about a broken package, removal request filled, done
<Laney> how did such a broken package get in?
<Laney> and why did the packager not take care of it?
<sistpoty|work> in this case the package==upstream iirc
<sistpoty|work> which is even more interesting
<joaopinto> and why did it get in, when there are other packages sitting, like mine, pending due to an unclear license, from the review perspective :P
<walterl> hi
<walterl> is there a way to update only a specific repository?
<sistpoty|work> walterl: only add that to sources.list? (that might of course hold back a lot of packages, or force removals of packages not in this repository depending on apt's resolver)
<walterl> sistpoty|work: in my case i only want to update packages from a ppa. wouldn't removing the other sources cause the rest of the packages to "disappear"?
<sistpoty|work> walterl: it would mean that apt doesn't have an idea about them, not that these will get removed on your system
<walterl> sistpoty|work: k. so there's no way to tell update to ignore repo's?
<sistpoty|work> walterl: not too sure actually. if it's a different release name, I guess you could use -t as apt-get parameter (however ppa's share the same release name as the distro)
<sistpoty|work> walterl: maybe apt pinning can do what you want, however I don't have too much clue about that
 * walterl googles
<benste> Hi, I'm about to go through the Packaging guide linked on your motu site and noticed that e.g debhelper version has been changed - willsomeone correct this locked wiki pack to e.g. use compat with 7 ?
<benste> and the hello source version has been change from 2.1.1 to 2.5
<benste> sorry 2.4
<benste> and I'm having problems locating postinst and prerm in the original source directory - may so give me an advise ?
<av`> benste, postinst and prerm shouldnt be located into the original source
<av`> they care called maintainer scripts
<av`> * are
<av`> plus I don't think you need them for 'hello' example
<benste> av`: I just came across them cause there are mentioned in the guide that they should be in the source which I copyied from archive.ubunt
<av`> benste, orig source contains upstream files only
<av`> benste, and debian/ dir contains maintainer scripts
<av`> if you did a dh_make all maintainer scripts got created
<av`> it's now up to you to keep the ones you need and remove the one you don't need
<benste> :-) now I now what you wanted to say me:-) - could you take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#postinst%20and%20prerm
<benste> av`: in my selfmade /debian dir - maintainer scripts - I already have those
<benste> but now I should copy pre and post files but they don't exist
<av`> benste, maybe they got removed
<benste> possibly, so I can skip them?
<benste> - who'll update the wiki page ?
<av`> benste, to know that you should have a look at changelog
<joaopinto> benste, the documents does not refer to a prristine source dir, it refers to a debian source, which is the original source + building diff
<av`> you should see if those files are mentioned and if yes why
<benste> joaopinto: what's prristine ?
<av`> benste,  * Removed prerm and postinst, as info files are missing now.
<av`> benste, they got removed, the info file is no more there, then you can skip them
<joaopinto> hum, maybe I was reading it wrong :P
<geser> benste: pristine (in this context) = unmodified; as you can download it from the upstream webpage
<benste> av`: so may someone be so kind to correct the guide for newbees like me ?
<benste> geser: joaopinto - thanks
<joaopinto> benste, still, it was refering to copy from a debian source, not from a source
<joaopinto> there is no debian/* on a source tarball :)
<av`> benste, I dunno who has the rights to change it :)
<av`> benste, and that page looks a bit outdated, yes
<benste> joaopinto: there is a hello_2.4-debhelper
<benste> dir in it which has maintainer scripts
<av`> joaopinto, depends
<joaopinto> erm, except native packages
<av`> joaopinto, upstream may want to include it
<joaopinto> which are not usuaul cases
<av`> which is way to bad
<joaopinto> av`, that is a bad thing to do :P
<av`> yep^^
<av`> but it happens
<benste> so usually it should have the -debhelper dir ?
<av`> no
<benste> sorry I forogt the not :-)
<av`> usually should have nothing debian-related
<av`> you should add debian-related stuff in it
<av`> it = source tree
<benste> to the original source, but also to the one I got through APT ?
<joaopinto> benste, hello-debhelper_2.2.orig.tar.gz does not contain debian/*
<av`> benste, if you do apt-get source foo
<joaopinto> benste, you are looking into a debian source, which is the orig source withe the building diff applied
<av`> benste, it will contain debian dir in it, yes
<av`> benste, apt-get source downloads orig and applies the diff.gz
<benste> av`: thanks
<av`> np :)
<benste> where will debuild -S look for my PGP key ?
<joaopinto> benste, have you set DEBEMAIL ?
<av`> benste, it will verify if your secret key is available
<joaopinto> it will use the standard gpg sign
<benste> joaopinto: I've set it to MYadress+motu@gmail.com
<av`> benste, if it fails either set a correct email with DEBEMAIL or use -kKEYID
<joaopinto> benste, and did you create the GPG key for it ?
<av`> benste, try debuild -S -kYOURKEYIDHERE
<walterl> sistpoty|work: thanks for your help :)
<benste> joaopinto: I've got a pgpkey for MYadress@gmail.com which includes some sub keys with the +
<benste> including a motu one
<joaopinto> ok
<benste> possibly it can't find my gpg key cause of the sub key ?
<benste> I#ll try to search my key from CLI with gpg - usually I use seahorse
<av`> benste, yeah, maybe it's unable to use your subkey, I don't know, alwais worked for me as main key
<av`> benste, otherwise use the -kKEYID option and you are done
<joaopinto> benste, does the email address shows at gpg --list-secret-keys ?
<benste> joaopinto: yes it does, including the right commend and name
<benste> av`: 91E4A5BE is key id ?
<benste> av`: Enter passphrase: gpg: gpg-agent is not available in this session - does this encounter any problems - with keyid it woun't accept my right passphrase
<benste> strange 5th try - accepted :-)
<benste> av`: - next question I'll read the whole paragraph before asking :-)
<jbernard> can someone give me advise about Bug #449349 ? is it right to request a sync at this stage in the release cycle?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449349 in bash-completion "regression for completing remote files/dirs over ssh" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449349
<joaopinto> jbernard, I would decided that based on what was changed on the debian version
<joaopinto> if there are non trivial changes, a specific bug fix patch would be safer
<benste> what's wrong with the first paragraph of the following changelog? - http://paste.ubuntu.com/294695/
<benste> debuild -S woun't work cause of this
<Hobbsee> benste: the fact that it's not built for an ubuntu release?
<Hobbsee> (ie, unstable --> karmic)
<Hobbsee> i'm assuming, anyway, without the error
<benste> Hobbsee: but it worked using unstable with only the lower one
<benste> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu.com/294706/
<benste> still not working
<sistpoty|work> benste: looks like your trailer line is badly formatted? (try dch -i and check the difference between the generated trailer line and yours)
<benste> sistpoty|work: I added the upper paragraph so I know the dif - am I allowed to change the changelog manually with nano ?
<sistpoty|work> benste: sure, if you're careful
<benste> sistpoty|work: I guess I wasn't - I wanted to add a new entry in the exact formatting, with only one point
<benste> looks like it didn't work
<benste> sistpoty|work: - I changed the revision number, does this take an effect ?P
<sistpoty|work> benste: yes, it will change the version.
<benste> checked again and looks like ; was missing in header - now working
<benste> sistpoty|work: do you know who I can solve this error "Enter passphrase: gpg: gpg-agent is not available in this session" so that I can use debuild without -kKEYID ?
<sistpoty|work> benste: you can set DEBSIGN_KEYID in your ~/.devscripts.conf (or /etc/devscripts.conf)
<benste> sistpoty|work: not in .bashrc ?
<sistpoty|work> benste: it's not an environment variable, but rather a config option of devscripts
<benste> can't I simply import my gpg private key or set seahorse as keyring in # A colon separated list of extra keyrings to read.
<benste> # DSCVERIFY_KEYRINGS=""
<benste> sistpoty|work:
<sistpoty|work> benste: why would you want to do this?
<benste1> sistpoty|work: for not entering the keys the whole time and auto signing with the key mentioned in the feils ?
<benste1> files
<sistpoty|work> benste1: how about using a gpg-agent?
<benste1> I'm using seahorse, but it looks like there is a problem between seahorse and gpg which ned up not finding my private key
<benste1> - but strangely it's listed with gpg --list-private-keys
<benste1> or similar
<sistpoty|work> benste1: but it does work with -k<keyid>?
<sistpoty|work> (using debisgn, i.e)
<benste1> sistpoty|work: with -k it works fine
<benste1> - with debuild - guess it's the parent app isn't it ?
<sistpoty|work> benste1: then you can just set DEBSIGN_KEYID
<benste1> and if I want to sign with anotehr key ?
<benste1> sistpoty|work: I'll set up your solution looks like it's the easiest atm
<sistpoty|work> benste1: I'm not too sure, but I guess that -k<anotherkeyid> will override it then
<benste1> simply adding at the first line of /etc/devscripts.cond
<benste1> f
<benste1> ?
<sistpoty|work> benste1: no you have to place it exactly at line 42 :P
<sistpoty|work> (just kidding)
<benste1> :-)
<benste1> sistpoty|work: looks like it worked, strange thing is that I still didn't get a .deb using pbuilder too
<benste1> but I'll go on the Guide first , so maybe at the end .. - thanks for helping
<av`> benste1, check /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<benste1> av`: lol my first deb - why wasn't it copied to the curent dir when building it ?
<av`> benste1, cause pbuilder uses that dir as default
<av`> benste1, if you give a dpkg-buildpackage you'll find it on the current dir
<benste1> av`:  but than it's build withouht fakeroot , on the installed system ?
<benste1> strange - there is only rev 1 and not 2
<av`> benste1, it's built with fakeroot on installed system as well
<av`> if not some targets on debian/rules would fail
<av`> benste1, dh_testroot tests if you are running it as fakeroot
<av`> if not fails
<sistpoty|work> bdrung: imho eclipse failed on the buildds, because only i386 builds the arch:all package
<bdrung> sistpoty|work: that's a good point. thx
<sistpoty|work> bdrung: I'm not too sure about the actual debian/rules invocation on the buildds, but I think it's binary-arch for non-i386, so common-install-indep might not be executed (?)
<geser> it's binary on the i386 and binary-arch on all others (see a build log of your choice)
<sistpoty|work> thanks geser
<c_korn> eh, if libpurple-dev depends on libpurple0 (>= ${source:Version}) lintian claims: E: pidgin source: weak-library-dev-dependency libpurple-dev on libpurple0 (>= ${source:Version}) ; but if it depends on libpurple0 (= ${source:Version}) lintian __additionally_ claims: E: pidgin source: not-binnmuable-all-depends-any libpurple-dev -> libpurple0
<sistpoty|work> c_korn: is libpurple-dev or libpurple0 arch:all?
<c_korn> sistpoty|work: libpurple-dev is arch:all
<sistpoty|work> c_korn: it should be arch:any, I guess (static library in there?)
<sistpoty|work> c_korn: otherwise you'd need binary:Version instead of source:Version
<sistpoty|work> (though we don't really have binNMU's here... yet)
<c_korn> sistpoty|work: eh, you are right. http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/all/libpurple-dev/filelist it has a shared library in it but it is arch:all. this is a bug
 * c_korn wonders it has not been detected all these years
<joaopinto> libpurple is not that old :P
<sistpoty|work> c_korn: I guess that's just the symlink, so it could in theory be arch:all
<geser> c_korn: the .so are pretty sure just symlinks to the real lib
<sistpoty|work> c_korn: makes me wonder though, why there isn't a static library
<geser> why should there? static linking is not really liked
<sistpoty|work> it can be useful from time to time, so why deprive users of this ability?
<joaopinto> geser, that's not a general purpose "dislike"
<c_korn> geser: you are right. they are just symlinks
<sistpoty|work> (and the library packaging guide still mentions it, however the guide also still mentions libtool files, which shouldn't be in there any longer)
<geser> even libpurple-dev in lenny has no .a file
<sistpoty|work> hm, maybe the upstream build system only builds a shared library?
<sistpoty|work> anyway it's not like the world ends if there's no static library, it's just a nice to have
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Actually Debian is pushing to have them removed.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: oh? hm... :(
<ScottK> There was a thread on debian-devel about it.
<c_korn> with libpurple0 (>= ${binary:Version}) the error is: E: pidgin source: weak-library-dev-dependency libpurple-dev on libpurple0 (>= ${binary:Version})
<c_korn> with libpurple0 (= ${binary:Version}) the error is: E: pidgin source: not-binnmuable-all-depends-any libpurple-dev -> libpurple0
<sistpoty|work> c_korn: oh, yeah, my mistake. arch:all aren't part of a binNMU, so the version of libpurple-dev's dependency isn't increased
<c_korn> exactly, how is situation being solved then ?
<c_korn> making the -dev arch:any ?
<sistpoty|work> yes
<sistpoty|work> you could also use = source:Upstream-Version (unless you change a header in a debian revision)
<sistpoty|work> c_korn: what do you have in mind btw.? preparing an upload for ubuntu?
<c_korn> I am not allowed to do so I think. I just wanted to test the new pidgin release. because ICQ seems to be instable at the moment
<sistpoty|work> ah, k
<sistpoty|work> (because I don't really think these changes should be introduced for Ubuntu unless coming from debian)
<benste1> what's wrong with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/294816/
<benste1> ~/.dbut.cf has got http://paste.ubuntu.com/294819/
<benste1> put
<sistpoty|work> benste1: the colon... dput <where> <changesfile> (no ":")
<benste1> LP howTo says  ppa:benste/ppa
<benste1> sistpoty|work: yours seem to work
<james_w> benste1: you don't need to edit ~/.dput.cf
<james_w> you can just type "dput ppa:benste/ppa ..."
<james_w> not "test-ppa:..."
<benste1> always difficult with those things :-) https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<benste1> and now it even asks a password I don#t know ROFL -
<benste1> james_w: , sistpoty|work: does it take some time after CLI has finished ?  - https://launchpad.net/~benste/+archive/ppa
<james_w> yes
<james_w> a couple of minutes
<benste1> james_w: why doesn't it upload a .DEB file to PPA ?
<james_w> because the PPA builds the .deb
<benste1> ah that's meant by      A recent upload has resulted in     3     pending builds.
<benste1> right ?
<benste1> so I don't have to use pbuilder if I'll upload the debuild to PPA ?
 * sistpoty|work heads home and is off over the weekend... cya
<geser> no, but testing if you package builds in a pbuilder will probably be faster than waiting on the PPA build
<benste1> james_w: thanks for helping now I'll try to rebuild those files modify changelog and add a package description :-)
<benste1> geser: just noticed that it will be build in 8h - long time :-)
<benste1> -> for changing something now I can simply edit the unpacked version, and modify changelog and some other stuff and upload the changes again ?
<james_w> you need to build the source package again
<james_w> and your modifications of the changelog have to increase the version number
<fabrice_sp> james_w, I fixed a package (classpath-common) that was making fail the rebuild of cacao. Is it possible to retry the build of cacao in the test of rebuild or I should upload a build1 version?
<james_w> fabrice_sp: I don't think it is possible
<fabrice_sp> james_w, ok. So I should just upload a build1 debdiff, to 'delete' it from the FTBFS? Or let it be?
<james_w> you know cacao builds now?
<james_w> and it builds in the archive?
<james_w> built I mean
<geser> fabrice_sp: is the FTBFS in the copy archive (rebuild) or main one?
<james_w> if so then I would suggest leaving it
<fabrice_sp> geser, only in the copy. So I'll leave it. Thanks guys
<geser> fabrice_sp: knowing that it would build again (in case we need to) is enough, no reason to get it rebuild
<fabrice_sp> crystal clear. Thanks :-)
<mne> Hi. I'm running ubuntu 9.04 on x86-32 kernel 2.6.28-6-686 and noticed that all programs (so far) have a non executable heap although there is no NX support in the kernel ? How is this possible ? For vulnerability research I would like to temporarily set the execute permission for the heap segment of a binary. How can I do this ?
<benste1> If I would start a very big package (>1gb) what could I do to expand PPA space ?
<av`> benste1, I've never heard of a package bigger than 1 gb
<ScottK> benste1: Ask on #launchpad
<benste1> thanks
<av`> benste1, anyway you should fillout a question against launchpad asking why you need more space
<av`> e.g you need a good rationale
<mne> does apparmour or selinux set the heap to non-executable ?
<ScottK> av`: They exist, but aren't in the official archive due to the effect on mirrors.  The largest I've heard of in Ubuntu was around 750mb
<av`> ScottK, they really exist? bigger than 1 gb?
<ScottK> mne: You should probably ask in #ubuntu-hardened
<ScottK> av`: Yes.
<av`> I guess that building one of them would make me crying
<benste1> av`: atm I'm still learning on how to build packages but I just thought if there would be a big game, e.g. WOW comes with ~ 10 Gb in Windows installation now - but you're right, simply asking to expand ro create a group with a bigger PPA would be the smartest way.
<mne> ScottK, thanks, I'll do so
<benste1> av`: ScottK - I'm sure I'll choose to go to local uniersity If I'll ever be in the situation to build something big - you know about the IBM servers at FH-Aachen (at campus JÃ¼lich) in germany?
<av`> benste1, I don't think someone will ever make WOW package :)
<joaopinto> benste1, WOW ? You can't upload non free games into a PPA
<benste1> .-)
<benste1> was just an example as my brother is playing it atm in ubuntu with wine
<benste1> beside some teamspeak PA errors all is better than in windows :-)
<benste1> back to topic, my pacakge has bee rejected from PPA :-)
<benste1> if the old version number is 2.4.1 and the new is 2.4.0ubuntu2 he nodes the 0 ? or the 2 ?
<benste1> does I have to use 2.4.1ubuntu2 ?
<benste1> av`:  ?
<av`> benste1, how can the new version be lower than the old one?
<av`> 2.4.1 old 2.4.0 new
<benste1> but new ist 2.4.0ubuntu2
<benste1> o lats number is 2 I thought
<av`> 2.4.0ubuntu2 is wrong
<benste1> why ?
<benste1> it's explained to use so which would be <deb revision version>ubuntu<ubuntu revision version>
<av`> there is no debian revision there
<av`> 2.4.0 is upstream
<av`> debian is missing
<benste1> ?
<benste1> in my PPA ?
<av`> benste1, please tell me the upstream revision
<av`> the debian revision
<av`> and I make you the ubuntu one
<av`> if I lack to know upstream and debian revision I can't help you
<benste1> normally it should be for me 0 debian and 2 ubuntu
<benste1> - 2 ubuntu cause it's my 2nd
<benste1> (for ubutnu)
<benste1> ~ of course not for real yet
<av`> please give me some details about the package you're working on
<benste1> it's the Test hello package from gnu
<benste1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<benste1> but it's my own attemp to change it
<benste1> av`: ?
<av`> benste1, upstream revision is 2.4
<av`> our ubuntu revision will be 2.4-0ubuntu1
<av`> next will be 2.4-0ubuntu2
<benste1> yes
<av`> and next is 2.4-0ubuntux
<av`> etc
<benste1> but the problem is that I named the first one 1 withouht ubunut
<av`> 2.4-1?
<benste1> and the 0ubuntu2 is now regretted
<benste1> yip
<benste1> https://launchpad.net/~benste/+archive/ppa/+packages
<av`> well, 2.4-1 is how debian do versioning
<av`> that way ubuntu will be 2.4-1ubuntu1
<av`> and if you upload another revision in ubuntu you bump ubuntuX
<benste1> ah k I'll try that so 1ubuntu1 > 0
<benste1> and > 1
<av`> X should be >= 1
<benste1> and next correction will be 1ubuntu3
<av`> 1-2-3 etc...
<benste1> av`: so let's see it's uploading
<benste1> and I possibly understood the basics after a whole day  :-)
<fabrice_sp> porthose, ping
<av`> benste1, it's good to attach something like ~ppa1 to PPA packages
<av`> benste1, so 2.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<benste1> during changelog ?
<av`> or 2.4-0ubuntu1~benste1 or whatever
<av`> in changelog yes
<av`> that's where versioning happens
<benste1> and then counting my own versioning
<av`> yep
<av`> so your PPA has its own versioning
<av`> which is different from the archive one
<benste1> that's a smart idea not to confuse  the original ubuntu package to mine
<av`> so you can keep track of the packages you uploaded on yoour PPA without bothering to change ubuntu or debian versioning
<av`> exactly
<av`> you upload to a PPA so you should use a PPA-like versioning
<benste1> :-)
<av`> it's recommended not a must
<benste1> thank you very much for helping me the whole day, hopefully I'll come back tomorrow or next week asking for a real package to learn on.
<benste1> cya
<av`> np
<av`> have a good day
<benste> how can I apply the build from source strategy on a package of files, e.g. Backgrounds ?
<joaopinto> benste, you build a source tarball with the backgrounds
<benste> joaopinto: so I should better google around how to build a source tarball ?
<benste> thanks
<benste> sag einfach kurz bescheid wenn dein key mit dem inet synchronisiert ist,
<benste> - sorry wrong tab in pidgin :-)
<joaopinto> benste, you need to learn how to create a .tar.gz archive
<benste> joaopinto: any advises on where to look - usually I would just right click in nautilus and create archive, but I#am sure this woun't be enough for thi case :-)
<benste> since today I#ll use "tar cfz" ;-)
<joaopinto> well, that will your but shuld learn to use tar :P
<joaopinto> should
<benste> joaopinto: is there any kind of documnetary on what has to be in the archive to see it as a source code ?
<joaopinto> benste, on your case because you are packaging backgrouns, is not source code
<joaopinto> and there is nothing special about a source code archive, is just an archive containg source
<joaopinto> anyway if you are building a package from scratch you can just use the --createorig option for dh_make from the "source" directory
<benste> joaopinto: - you're kidding - for me source of some jpeg files would only be a folder of jpeg files, but I sure here it will need a kind of installation script to move those image to the right place ?
<ari-tczew> hello
<joaopinto> benste, you mentioned "source code", which is different from "source"
<joaopinto> benste, no, you just need the files listed on the debian/install, and call dh_install on the building rules
<joaopinto> benste, if you are learning one approach is to just grab the source for an existing package with a similar purpose
<joaopinto> so that you look how it works
<joaopinto> apt-get source some wallpapers pacakge and look at the contents
<joaopinto> hello ari-tczew
<benste> joaopinto: nice idea :-) forgot about this
<joaopinto> benste, the core files you will want to look are debian/control and debian/rules
<fabrice_sp> Hello ari-tczew
<ari-tczew> developers, please answer what about lm-sensors for karmic? bug exist for jaunty, now karmic, lucid?... bug #336418
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336418 in lm-sensors-3 "Please merge lm-sensors 3.1.1-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336418
<joaopinto> isn't a bit late to handle merge requests ?
<geser> not if it fixes important bugs
<ari-tczew> date request: 2009-03-01
<ari-tczew> comment #11 by Stevenk
<ari-tczew> You've now had four archive admins touch this bug, please stop changing the status without doing any of the work that has been requested.
<ari-tczew> 2 months ago
<lamalex> Can anyone tell me (or point me to the doc that does) how to modify debian/rules to pass arguments to configure?
<geser> does the package use debhelper or cdbs?
<joaopinto> lamalex, ^ does the package use debhelper or cdbs?
<lamalex> joaopinto: i figured it out
<lamalex> thank you though
<ari-tczew> what I need to have done if I want to join ~MOTU?
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, you should start by getting familiar with the ubuntu wiki, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<geser> read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers and let your contributions get sponsored. if you gathered enough experience and your sponsors support you, you can apply
<jdong> /usr/bin/pdebuild: line 39: /dev/fd/62: No such file or directory
<jdong> *scratches head*
<jdong>     exec > >(tee "${PBUILDER_BUILD_LOGFILE}");
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-17
 * jdong quietly blames upstart/udev and reboots
<jdong> it IS kinda cool when btrfs can tear down a pbuilder as fast as reiserfs did
<geser> pbuilder on tmpfs :)
<jdong> haha that's what I used to do
<jdong> the downfall was what to do about the aptcache ;-)
<jdong> and then there's those obscene builds like openoffice :)
<jdong> not saying btrfs handles that any better
<jdong> HOLY CRAP thunderbird final linking balloons a lot of RAM!
<TheMuso> bdrung: I will have a look at eclipse on powerpc. I use sbuild, so I can replicate an eenvironment where arch all packages don't get built.
<TheMuso> I can also look on amd64/i386
<trip0> what's the procedure for submitting a patch to a package?
<trip0> launchpad?\
<tonyyarusso> Can anyone tell me the name of the site that a lot of FLOSS devs use for collecting donations?  I'm totally blanking on the one I'm thinking of...
<fabrice_sp> trip0, yes: open a bug report, attach the debdiff, and subscribe Ubuntu Sponsors for Universe
<trip0> kk
<trip0> tonyyarusso: paypal?
<tonyyarusso> trip0: I was thinking of something that would show progress towards a goal.  I'm hoping I'll recognize the name if someone comes up with it, but it's not just the payment service itself.  (ie you could use paypal to make a donation on foo)
<fale> hi
<fabrice_sp> hi fale
<fale> I tried to bring libboost from debian to a ppa... but it fails with this error: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33809173/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.boost1.40_1.40.0-2ubuntu0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz any idea?
<geser> fale: one problem is, that it tries to build with python2.4 (karmic has python2.6 as default)
<fale> geser: I have to force the installation of python 2.5 and the compile of it?
<geser> fale: it already installs python2.5 and python2.6 via build-depends but somewhere force it to use python2.4
<geser> "Detecting Python version... 2.6
<geser> but later -I"/usr/include/python2.4"
<geser> perhaps the 'echo "using python : 2.4 : /usr ;" >> user-config.jam' causes it
<geser> fale: you might want to look at the patch to boost1.38 to see what's needs to be changed to build with the current python versions in ubuntu (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26972978/boost1.38_1.38.0-6_1.38.0-6ubuntu1.diff.gz)
<fale> geser: I see.. than I'll try to make it using 2.5
<fale> geser: I'm creating the package... soon I'll upload it.. and wait to see if I fixed it :)
<geser> fale: if you use pbuilder you can test it yourself if you don't want to wait on the PPA builders and only upload it when you're done
<fale> geser: :) I'll install pbuilder, than :)
<jetienne> q. what is the correct directoryh to put a python executable ?
<geser> like any other executable, /usr/bin
 * fale is compiling... hoping the best
<fale> geser: If it does compile correctly, I could try to push boost 1.40 in lynx?
<jetienne> geser: nothing special because it is noarch ?
<fale> jetienne: nope
<jetienne> ok thanks
<fale> again http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33823851/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.boost1.40_1.40.0-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :(
<geser> fale: it took me some time to realise that with lynx you not meant the text webbrowser but the next ubuntu release (lucid) :)
<fale> geser: ops, I call (wrongly) lynx... I'll try to change behave ;)
<geser> fale: as boost1.40 is Debian unstable it will get auto-synced once lucide opens but will need the fix you're working now on
<fale> geser: oki ;)
<fale> geser: I rebuilted it... but it seems that there are problems with enums :(
<fale> geser: I think is an error in some config, because debian is able to compile it ( http://packages.debian.org/sid/libboost1.40-dev )
<geser> fale: don't forget that debian still builds with gcc 4.3 as default while ubuntu uses already gcc 4.4 as default
<fale> geser: that can be a huge problem...
<fale> geser: an OT question: because ubuntu and debian are very similar and bring packages back and forth... woudn't be easyer to have a unique repo?
<geser> I'm not saying that this might be the problem but as there are differences in the toolchain between debian and ubuntu, a package which builds in debian might fail in Ubuntu for different reasons
<geser> fale: not really possible, as e.g. Debian and Ubuntu have different speed of development (e.g. Debian releases once in around 2 years, while Ubuntu once every 6 months)
<fale> I see
<geser> and trying to coordinate which version went when into to common repo would be pretty hard
<fale> I see
<geser> Debian uses gcc 4.3, Ubuntu gcc 4.4; Debian uses eglibc 2.9, Ubuntu already eglibc 2.10; Debian catched now up to Gnome 2.28 like in Ubuntu, and so on
<fale> geser: well, I don't think that debian is behind because they want it, but more because they don't have enough human-power to do everything
<jetienne> q. what is the control files's Architecture for python code ? i tried any and all
<joaopinto> jetienne, it should be "all" if it's entirely python
<jetienne> ok thx
<joaopinto> there are some efforts in progress to synchronize the toolchaing between Debian and UBuntu
<jetienne> q. is there a way to make dh_make not to ask interactive questions ? especially the "are you sure" ones
<joaopinto> jetienne, man dh_make
<jetienne> joaopinto: you mean yes or no ?
<joaopinto> jetienne, I mean it's on the manual, we can help you but we are not a replacement for the man
<jetienne> ok :)
<jetienne> joaopinto: well if you dont wanna help this is ok
<jetienne> joaopinto: and yes/no wont kill you
<jetienne> and dont assume i didnt read it
<jetienne> no hard feeling
<joaopinto> jetienne, If I didn't want to help I would not have answer you, which I did with a pointer to the answer
<joaopinto> :)
<jetienne> well i will wait and ask again
<jetienne> as i read the "pointer" you refer to
<jetienne> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} <- where can i find the definition of those macro ?
<joaopinto> jetienne, man deb-substvars
<jetienne> joaopinto: well if you dont have anything to say except rtfm, please ignore me
<joaopinto> hum, misc:Depends is not described on the manpage, it's used by debhelper, not sure for which purposes
<jetienne> the first part is not defined either
<joaopinto> yes it is
<joaopinto>        shlibs:dependencyfield
<joaopinto>               Variable settings with names of this form are generated by dpkg-shlibdeps.
<jetienne> :)
<joaopinto> it is set to the list of shared libraries identified by dh_shlibdeps
<jetienne> this is not a description this is a single line saying nothing :)
<jetienne> like what it is doing ?
<joaopinto> jetienne, at the bottom of the man page there is a section with other relevant pages, I guess you want to understand what is dpkg-shlibsdeps is about
<joaopinto> man dpkg-shlibdeps
<jetienne> nah
<jetienne> i want to make a deb and find help to do so :)
<jetienne> i do understand you are a rftm person
<joaopinto> jetienne, to summarize, the shlibs varialble will be replaced with the package names that provide the share libaries used by binaries on your package
<jetienne> this is ok please ignore me, please
<jetienne> lets be civil
<joaopinto> jetienne, if you want to create a .deb without learning manuals, you are on the wrong place
<jetienne> joaopinto: well many people here are ok to help
<joaopinto> the only people feeling offended is you, I am just answering to your questions, and you don't like the help :)
<jetienne> joaopinto: well ok. please ignore me
<joaopinto> just ignore the answers if you don't like them, other people on the channel may like :)
<jetienne> i dont want to fight :)
<joaopinto> jetienne, I don't like to ignore people, again, you are the one offended, feel free to ignore me :)
<jetienne> im not offended, just not willing to fight with somebody who think rftm is more important than coc
<jetienne> this is ok
<joaopinto> I am not simply rftm, I am pointing the specicif manual pages you should read related to your questions :)
<jetienne> joaopinto: yeah right. credible
<jetienne> you are right
<jetienne> now please ignore me, you are discouraging other people to help
<joaopinto> jetienne, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete - it also describes the purpose of those variables you have asked about
<jetienne> PLEASE IGNORE ME
<joaopinto> !caps | jetienne
<ubottu> jetienne: PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too.
<jetienne> !coc | joaopinto
<ubottu> joaopinto: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<jetienne> see if you can read that
<joaopinto> I have read and signed, tks :)
<jetienne> well honor your word then
<jetienne> ok will be back during the week
<jetienne> q. how to update the debian/changelog automatically ?
<joaopinto> jetienne, use the dch utility
<joaopinto> jetienne, dch -i or dch -a
<joaopinto> jetienne, man dch for more details
<jetienne> joaopinto: ok sorry i will have to ignore you as you keep intervinning.
<jetienne> no hard feeling just trying to be productive
<joaopinto> man, you must have serious problems, you get the answers and still complaining about it :)
<directhex> yeah, wtf?
<iulian> Oh well, he obviously doesn't like reading manual pages.
<jetienne> arf
<jetienne> debchange -i doesnt work if it is a native package. as opposed to what the man page say
<iulian> Eh?
<iulian> Are you sure you're reading the right man page?
<iulian> "Increment either the final component of the Debian release  number or, if this is a native Debian package, the version number."
<jetienne> yep and this add ubuntu2
<geser> jetienne: what was the original version, what did you get and what did you expect to get as version?
<jetienne> geser: the original version ? not sure to undersand this is a code of mine im packaging. i used dh_make --single --email myname@gmail.com --native to generate it
<jetienne> --increment added ubuntu suffix even i used --native, as opposed to the man page
<jetienne> but honnestly i would not have complain without the rftm episode i experienced
<geser> why did you use --native? it's mostly for software written only for Debian/Ubuntu
<jetienne> geser: because this is only for ubuntu
<geser> jetienne: the package or the software?
<jetienne> both
<geser> dch applies by default the ubuntu versioning scheme on Ubuntu
<jetienne> geser: this is ok, writing my own script to update changelog fix it
<jetienne> geser: not according to the manual :)
<geser> true, it does it always as it hard to difference between modifying Debian packages and Ubuntu-only packages
<geser> but even then it's a good idea to use the ubuntu postfix if it's not clear from the package name that the package is Ubuntu-only
<jetienne> noted
<geser> just curious: what kind of application is it, that it will only be useful to Ubuntu and not Debian too?
<jetienne> is there a tool parsing "debian/changelog" able to give the current version
<jetienne> geser: we do not plan to support debian by lack of time to support/test it
<joaopinto> jetienne, but some on Debian may decide to adopt your package, and if you make it native your are just making their life harder
<joaopinto> someone
<ys___> hi, I need some help with the ppa building system, can somebody help me?
<ys___> I'm trying to build a package but it's current build status is "Dependency wait"
<ys___> what should i do now?
<jetienne> ys___: wild guessing. maybe you depend on a .deb which is not available, and the build assume it will, and so wait for it
<ys___> the build assume it will? when?
<jetienne> ys___: no idea. i was wild guessing
<ys___> oh, thanks
<jetienne> debchange -b --changelog changelog --newversion "0.01build`date +%Y%m%d%k%M%S`" "Automatic packaging" <- im focusing on this kind of thing :)
<ys___> i don't understand that
<randomaction> ys___: you should probably look at the build log and see which build-dependency is missing. probably you mistyped the package name, or try to depend on a package not available in Ubuntu
<ys___> Missing build dependencies: libgconf2.24-cil
<ys___> oh, that's truth
<ys___> thank you, i'm retrying :)
<dtchen> zul: WRT whois: you probably need to update config.h's VERSION macro, too
<dtchen> zul: http://pastebin.com/dc948ea6
<LLStarks> hi. wicd needs a package update and there's also the problem that the dbus daemon it relies on won't load.
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wicd/+bug/454067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 454067 in wicd "wicd 1.6.2.2 released a month ago" [Undecided,New]
<LordMetroid> Master of the Universe please take a look at the CouchDB package installation dependencies, they are broken and couchdb can not be installed properly nor launched due to this
<dtchen> jdong: you have a macbook 5,1 , correct?
<dtchen> (or rather, anyone with a macbook 5,1 running os x)
<jdong> dtchen: macbookpro 5,2
<dtchen> jdong: does jack sense work in current Karmic?
<dtchen> i'm having a heckuvatime finding the drivers for Darwin
<dtchen> not even sure they're exposed, but i'm looking for the init verbs for 5,1 and 5,2
<jdong> dtchen: no, jack sense doesn't, I have a LP bug open regarding that...
<dtchen> jdong: i'll need some info from the mac os x side
<jdong> dtchen: but yeah I have the system booted into OS X right now if you need me to grab anything from it
<dtchen> jdong: since i'm unfamiliar w/ os x, i don't know offhand if the init verbs are exposed anywhere
<jdong> ok lemme poke around a bit
<dtchen> jdong: if we can find those, we can pretty easily patch it in using the new patch infrastructure for HDA
<dtchen> i.e., we write a text file and put it in /lib/firmware/$(uname -r)/foo, and you pass the filename to snd-hda-intel patch=foo
<dtchen> anyhow, let me know if you find anything; i'm offline until tomorrow afternoon. i need a break from this sound mess.
<jdong> dtchen: sounds good (haha sorry for that awful pun); you'll hear from me if I find anything that looks useful
<jdong> dtchen: the only thing that looks remotely "useful" is http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/AppleHDAPlatformDriver.kext_Info.plist within the driver...
<jdong> dtchen: seems like some sort of mapping, though I don't have the knowledge to make heads or tails out of it
<jdong> one of the most eye opening XML files I've seen in a while too....
<jdong> dtchen: might be old news to you, but various internet noise like http://bbs.pcbeta.com/redirect.php?tid=349924&goto=newpost seems to have insight on what the big-blobs-of-BASE64 mean.
<quidnunc> Is checkinstall safe if the installer is untrusted?
<quidnunc> In other words, will checkinstall provide a reasonable degree of protection by installing in a chroot?
<jdong> is it even safe if the installer is trusted?
<joaopinto> quidnunc, is just as safe as the install
<jdong> but the answer is no
<superm1> jdong, the old problems that plagued it have been fixed AFAIK
<jdong> checkinstall I believe uses LD_PRELOAD to trap attempts to install stuff, to divert them to a deb package
<quidnunc> joaopinto: I thought it used a chroot so it wouldn't actually touch my filesystem
<superm1> (security wise)
<superm1> it still won't produce policy compliant packages of course
<jdong> superm1: oh, I was unaware of that...
<joaopinto> quidnunc, the install is regular, it just tracks the installed files and builds a .deb from it
<jdong> but even a chroot is inappropriate for UNTRUSTED installers.
<jdong> root can still circumvent chroots :)
<joaopinto> a root process running from a chroot can break it ?
<quidnunc> I basically want to see what the installer is going to try to do and manually grant it permissions but I also want to use checkinstall so I can easily uninstall it afterwards
<jdong> joaopinto: absolutely
<joaopinto> quidnunc, make -n install
<jdong> joaopinto: in fact the truly concerned sysadmin doesn't even want to run non-root users unconfined in a chroot...
<quidnunc> joaopinto: It is a binary installer
<joaopinto> quidnunc, run it from a chroot :)
<jdong> quidnunc: you can log what the installer does by putting an apparmor null complain profile around it :)
<jdong> then your audit logs will spew over everything the installer is doing.
<quidnunc> jdong: Yes I thought of that but it will actually do those things. I don't want it to do those things because I want to use checkinstall to make sure I can uninstall it.
<quidnunc> joaopinto: Isn't that what checkinstall does?
<jdong> checkinstall will do it for cooperating installers.
<jdong> if you're concerned about a *malicious* installer, then no.
<quidnunc> I guess I would want some kind of combination of checkinstall and apparmor
<jdong> that's a much more challenging situation
<joaopinto> quidnunc, no, checkinstall does not install over a chroot
<jdong> you can use checkinstall in a chroot with apparmor protection :)
<jdong> though that's a pain to set up ;-)
<quidnunc> joaopinto: But it doesn't actually install right?
<quidnunc> checkinstall says it has fstrans
<quidnunc> An --fstrans options "causes the install to proceed in a temporary directory, thus not actually touching your system"
<joaopinto> it does install, i mean, with the default options, i am not familiar with thtat option
<mrooney> YokoZar: what do we do about bugs like http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20288 where the user can't file it in Ubuntu because it's the PPA version but upstream says it is our problem?
<ubottu> bugs.winehq.org bug 20288 in -unknown "Parser error : PCDATA invalid Char value 17" [Normal,Closed: invalid]
<ScottK> mrooney: If it's in a PPA, it's not "our" in the sense of MOTU's problem.
<mrooney> I meant "our" in the larger Ubuntu sense :)
<ScottK> I think PPA problems are the problems of the PPA owner
<jdong> mrooney: hopefully the PPA owner has set up a launchpad product or some other way to track bugs then
<jdong> I know the Mozilla team and some Kubuntu PPA documents suggest filing Ubuntu bugs on their PPA packages, and heck even that practice seems somewhat controversial around here
<ScottK> The difference in those cases is that the same people maintain the packages and they are generally used as prestaging for stuff going into the archive.
<jdong> right, forgot to mention that :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-18
<mrooney> yeah, well I saw YokoZar seems to be a maintainer of the PPA but also works on the Ubuntu package, so I thought I'd ask how to handle it
<YokoZar> mrooney: jdong: If it's a packaging bug it's basically my problem alone so wherever I see it would be good.  I look at launchpad more than winehq so i would prefer it there.
<dennda> Hi. Any intention of getting the latest VTK (5.4) into karmic? at the moment, there is no vtk at all
<ScottK> dennda: We do have VTK: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vtk/5.2.1-10ubuntu1 - At this point the only way I think we'd update is if it fixed the build failures with 5.2 and someone could test the reverse depends.
<Squideshi> Under what circumstances should one seek to have a package included in the Ubuntu repositories, rather than the Debian repositories?
<wrapster> what is the difference in using dpkg-buildpackage -k<keyid> and -p<sign cmd>
<RainCT> Squideshi: almost none :)
<wrapster> didnt quite understand it..
<RainCT> Squideshi: basically only if the package is Ubuntu specific or it has some weird licensing which Debian doesn't accept but Ubuntu does
<Squideshi> RainCT: That's what I suspected, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the confirmation.
<dennda> ScottK: reverse depends?
<ScottK> dennda: Packages that use VTK
<dennda> ScottK: i imagine that's quite a few packages
<dennda> what does 'testing' include here?
<dennda> i'd be happy to help if we can get it into karmic
<dennda> ScottK: i guess python-vtk are the python bindings for vtk?
<ScottK> Yes
<dennda> it wasn't shown to me for karmic on packages.ubuntu.com
<RainCT> wrapster: -k is used to specify with which key you want to sign the package, -p is used to tell it what gpg binary to use
<dennda> perhaps i forgot to adjust it
<RainCT> (according to the manpage, had never heard about -p before)
<dennda> ah yes, my fault, karmic has it
<wrapster> RainCT: actually im a little confused myself.. thats y asked.
<dennda> ScottK: well i can help with testing if you have a list of programs that use it and some 'testing means this, styleguide'
<ScottK> dennda: apt-cache rdepends <packagename> for each binary in VTK will give you a list.
<dennda> for each binary? Oo
<ScottK> dennda: Also reverse-build-depends <packagename-dev> for the -dev packages (reverse-build-depends is in ubuntu-dev-tools)
<ScottK> Yes
<RainCT> wrapster: well, you shouldn't need -p for anything, and unless you're a MOTU you don't need -k either (you just need to export DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME variables in your ~/.bashrc)
<ScottK> The way I'd do it is put the new VTK in a PPA and rebuild the reverse-build-depends in the PPA, install and test all the rdepends.
<wrapster> ok
<ScottK> dennda: I don't have a specific "test means X", but it doesn't need to be extensive.
<ScottK> dennda: I'm going to be offline for the next several hours, so I can't give more specific advice than that.
<dennda> ScottK: i'm neither a motu nor am I by any means familiar with packaging, so *I* can't do that ppa
<ScottK> dennda: Perhaps someone here can help you.
<dennda> ScottK: well it's not *that* urgent
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK really away now.
<dennda> thanks
<Zhenech> could anyone have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/mini18n/+bug/450821 and pull the fixed package from Debian sid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450821 in mini18n "Yabause crashes with segmentation fault on launch" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<dtchen> jdong: ugh, that "how-to" page is so bad. don't they know that they can just use hda-analyzer and hda-emu?
<dtchen> bdrung_: that's pretty fantastic work RE eclipse
<maco> dtchen: you were right. file not found.
<dtchen> toldya.
<maco> so what do i do? try a newer svn snapshot?
<dtchen> well, if you want to dig in upstream's VCS, you could read the commit logs if you're really sick. Does upstream have a bug tracker?
<maco> its hosted on kde.org, so i suppose so
<maco> or at least the svn is on kde.org
<maco> uh... no, no bugtracker
<maco> just svn
 * maco tries to remember kde svn credentials
<Laney> hey cool
<Laney> does eclipse work now?
<dtchen> superm1: ping, what's the issue with mixer levels not being restored? What audio codecs are in use? Can you drop in http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/alsa-utils for /etc/init.d/alsa-utils and paste the output in the bug(s)?
<dtchen> superm1: ("the output" -> /var/run/alsa/timestamp)
<superm1> dtchen, well it's been reported with a variety of machines, but i was able to just reproduce it on a virtualbox install
<superm1> dtchen, you go and say set master to 91% w/ alsamixer, and then click applications->logout->restart, and check alsamixer and it's not 91%
<superm1> it's back to the 80something
<superm1> other people have been reporting it in the fashion of they set IEC958, and it won't stick
<dtchen> interesting, that would mean that restore_levels() fails
<dtchen> i can't reproduce it locally at all
<maco> same with both gdm and kdm
<maco> ?
<dtchen> maco: and with startx
<dtchen> about the only vector i haven't tested is ltsp
<randomaction> Zhenech: request a sync (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess)
<superm1> dtchen, i'm doing a fresh install in vbox with last night's daily, i'll attempt reproduce it again with your alsa-utils script and attach that output to the bug
<Zhenech> randomaction, ok, will do
<dtchen> superm1: thanks
<maco> dtchen: nothing in the svn changelog saying "created Darkroom.cpp" :-/ also the svn snapshot is almost a year old
<maco> (it does exist in current svn)
<dtchen> maco: so, build infrastructure mess
<maco> that's not a sentence
<dtchen> oh, ouch. upstream changed the semantics for alsactl restore!
<dtchen> maco: sure it is. "so, [there is] build infrastructure mess"
<maco> ah see, now you have a verb!
<maco> but i still dont understand
<dtchen> it means you have something broken in your CMake infrastructure
<dtchen> aha! indeed Intrepid users aren't experiencing this issue, because init isn't implied
 * dtchen cheers not announcing behaviour changes
<superm1> dtchen, /var/run isn't a persistent fs, so that file isn't going to stick post reboot
<superm1> dtchen, but indeed /var/lib/alsa/asound.state isn't getting made
<dtchen> superm1: that's fine, use /var/lib/alsa/
<dtchen> superm1: ok, so /var/run/alsa isn't populated on a fresh install?
<superm1> dtchen, /var/lib/alsa isn't, but /var/run/alsa has a notstoredall file in it
<maco> dtchen: i think its more like "that file should exist, but the orig.gz is busted"
<maco> because it DOES exist in current svn
<dtchen> heh
<dtchen> this is so ugly
<maco> er...oh
<dtchen> so it's because we umount stuff before it can write
<maco> nevermind. none of the cpp's are in there in pbuilder though theyre there in the extracted source :(
<superm1> dtchen, so you can reproduce it then?  would that explain racy behavior re it too?  it seems all of a sudden...
<bdrung_> dtchen: thanks
<dtchen> superm1: I can't reproduce it, but it's pretty glaringly obvious now that I stare at /etc/rc[06].d
<dtchen> superm1: ok, one more test point: if you call alsactl store now, are the levels still not restored on next boot?
<superm1> dtchen, just tried.  calling alsactl store manually, they are indeed properly restored on the next boot
<dtchen> ok, right, so i need to make two changes to debian/init
<dtchen> i'll have a test deb in a few minutes
<dtchen> superm1: sorry, i'll ping you in ~1 hr
<porthose> bdrung_, great I will email david and let him know ty :)
<bdrung_> porthose: i already talked with him ;)
<porthose> bdrung_, oh ok even better :)
<bdrung_> :)
<bdrung_> porthose: he wrote patches for audacity (which i maintain). so i already knew him.
<porthose> bdrung_, cooool :)
<bdrung_> porthose: i got your mail and i thought that his name seemed so familiar
<porthose> bdrung_, purely luck of the draw :)
<porthose> bdrung_, haha I have a few more if you would like another
<bdrung_> porthose: one is enough :p
<porthose> :)
<dtchen> superm1: changes are in my alsa-utils branch
<dtchen> superm1: if that still fails, i'll just make a specific -save upstart job
<dtchen> the latter would be a crackload easier to debug than this mess
<superm1> dtchen, what's "your alsa-utils branch" url?
<dtchen> superm1: it's in the bug report that you filed
<dtchen> #454265
<superm1> cool thx
<jdong> heh something seems to have left a udevadm.upgrade dangling on this machine...
<jdong> kinda scary when udev tells you on bootup that trigger can't be used when udev is unconfigured :)
<vorian> no body gonna breaka my syle
<vorian> style too
<vorian> a week and a half more of moving/training and I should be settled in our new home
<dtchen> well, that's easy. you have no syle!
<vorian> true enough
<vorian> I'm stuck in denver at the biggest and loudest ariport on earth
<vorian> and a lot of people smell too
<dtchen> I used to think that, too, and then I realized that it was just my computer burning my pants.
<vorian> oh crap!
<vorian> your right
<maco> and his left
<vorian> :o
<vorian> how was OLF?
<maco> good
<vorian> i was tres sad to miss it
<maco> i stayed up til 3 saturday night watching doctor who with some folks in the hallway :P
<vorian> haha
<vorian> I must say that kne is quite good
<vorian> I was worried about not bringing the full size lappy, but kne is doing very well so far
<vorian> it will be nice to actually be nice to help work on it with lucid
 * vorian says nice too much
<dtchen> huh? no, my right is still my right.
<vorian> haha
<maco> dtchen: yeah so i dont see anything in the CMakeLists.txt that says "rm *.cpp"
<superm1> dtchen, well do you want the good news or the bad news?
<dtchen> superm1: bad first
<dtchen> (do i have a choice?!)
<superm1> dtchen, haha trick question.  it's all bad
<superm1> didn't work still :)
<dtchen> superm1: does alsa-utils stop work?
<superm1> dtchen, no it would appear it doesn't
<dtchen> superm1: ok, does it give FAILED?
<superm1> Shutting down ALSA... [fail]
<dtchen> superm1: and what's in /var/run/alsa ?
<superm1> dtchen, i've been seeing notstored0 sometimes and notstoredall sometimes
<dtchen> ok, and now i begin the initscript-sectomy
<dtchen> basically, /etc/init.d/alsa-utils is useless. we don't need it to be an initscript at all.
<superm1> dtchen, well before you go into breaking that down and switching everything into upstart, it looks like you are assuming that TARGET_CARD gets set by "$2" right?  well stop isn't normally called with any arguments like that I thought?
<superm1> so surely rm -f $FLAG$TARGET_CARD isn't going to DTRT
<superm1> er rm $FLAG$TARGET_CARD
<dtchen> superm1: in that case, yes, but the real issue is that you're getting either 0 or ""
<dtchen> superm1: i.e., it's completely legitimate for the sysadmin to use stop 0
<superm1> dtchen, right i see
<jetienne> q. i look for example of website installed by .deb. The only one im thinking about is phpmyadmin. any others ?
<jdong> phpsysinfo?
<jdong> squirrelmail?
<porthose> jetienne, ampache, gallery2, drupal5, drupal6 are some others
<jetienne> jdong: porthose: ok thanks
<dtchen> superm1: changes pushed to bzr (r36)
<dtchen> superm1: actually, hang a sec
<dtchen> superm1: ok, r37 is go
<superm1> dtchen, awesome.  just tested it, and it's definitely DTRT now, no more troubles
<superm1> dtchen, would you like me to sponsor it into karmic?
<dtchen> superm1: yes please
<superm1> dtchen, okay uploaded.  you may want to merge lp:~superm1/alsa-utils/new-release to  your branch (it's just s/UNRELEASED/karmic and tagging the release)
<Zarel_> Hey, guys.
<Zarel_> I just realized it's October already. Which stage of releasing Karmic are we at?
<dtchen> TheMuso: ^^^
<superm1> dtchen, oh i had thought your branch was the main one getting tracked.  is it an ~ubuntu-dev branch somewhere?
<superm1> i'll merge it in there if so
<superm1> nothing is listed in debian/control
<Zarel_> Hmm, the website says "11 days to go". Is there still time to update a package to the latest version?
<Zarel_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/warzone2100
<dtchen> superm1: ~ubuntu-core-dev/alsa-utils/ubuntu.new IIRC
<dtchen> been a while since I had commit privileges to ~ubuntu-core-dev ;)
<superm1> dtchen, how come you don't reapply for them?
<dtchen> no time, really
<dtchen> the process is a hindrance, and i'd rather just fix the bugs
<superm1> says the man who is spending eons of time on audio :)
<superm1> i thought for people who had them previously it's not much of a process, but i dont know for sure
<dtchen> no idea, and i don't care at this point. my plate is overflowing.
<superm1> :)
<TheMuso> superm1: thanks a bunch for doing that.
<superm1> TheMuso, np.  is there a particular reason that bzr branch isn't advertised in debian/control?  would have avoided the confusion in the first place
<TheMuso> superm1: hrm I thought we had it there, so probably just hat we have never added it in, or if we did, it got dropped along the way.
<quentusrex> Anyone know how to get a package to STOP trying to fix permissions???
<quentusrex> I have configs on an NFS server, and they are set to full permissions, but the package upgrades keep failing because it can't fix the permissions
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-18
<persia> kklimonda, So, we use a namespace on IRC.  We say that a nick identifies a person.
<persia> So a nick is really an IPI (IRC Person Identifier)
<persia> Similarly, a URI is a Universal Resource Identifier.
<persia> And so should not be able to exist without there being a Resource behind it.
<kklimonda> so your question is "what does really magnet identify?"
<persia> I don't care, but I believe the answer to that question is required in order to use MIME handling, and that without that answer, magnet: is abusing the semantics of URI.
<kklimonda> mhm, makes sense. and yeah, I know you don't care about it, I used this figure of speach as a shortcut of sort. I guess the problem is mime-type is not the right right way of doing that.. but KDE's way has its own problems. So we end up with something that is ugly but works.
<persia> KDE's is cleaner than Bastien's
<persia> Doing it right is extra complicated, and requires writing a bundle of code and migrating all the legacy applications.
<persia> But if you can define the nature of the resource, you can then construct a file/stream/whatever that matches, and then have a MIME type for that resource, and things ought just work without too many hacks.
<kklimonda> persia: then I can only assume that magnet is abusing uri specification because not all magnet uris can be translated into resources (by resource I mean for example a torrent file you download knowing its hash). Some hashes are just used by p2p clients to ask all peers whether they have the file in question or do they know anyone who has it.
<persia> kklimonda, That's why I asked if the resource was a hash.
<persia> And remember my "Moby Dick" example: there's no reason a URI can't supply multiple formats (although only a subset may be available for any given resource).
<simar> persia, hi
<simar> persia, remember
<napster> Hello friends
<napster> I would like to contribute to ubuntu-natty-gnomeutils-gnomescreenshot project
<napster> How can I do that?
<persia> simar, Yes.
<persia> napster, Where did you get the name of that project?
<napster> How to get a branch for natty/ubunu-utils?
<napster> persia: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gnome-utils
<persia> napster, What are you trying to do?
<napster> persia: I would like to change the way screeshot program names files while saving
<persia> Ah, OK.
<persia> napster, So, there's two ways to do this: best is to work on http://live.gnome.org/GnomeUtils upstream: anything in the next release *will* be part of Natty.
<napster> persia: And the other way?
<simar> persia, How can I contribute to the development release, natty, without getting into merging and syncs .. I mean what are the other ways to contribute?
<persia> Second best is to work with the folks in #ubuntu-desktop to get a local patch in Ubuntu.  I don't suspect you'll have much luck with this, as that team really doesn't like patches unless upstream is ignoring them for some reason.
<persia> simar, There's a few things that would be great just now.  Fixing some of the bugs.  Working on UEHS to get stuff not in Debian up-to-date.  Cleaning up old Ubuntu-local source packages.
<napster> persia: OK, thank you
<persia> simar, And more work on FTBFS is always good.
<simar> persia, but I think FTBFS, havn't come up for natty yet?
<simar> UEHS?
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ shows a couple hundred
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ are packages not maintained in Debian, many of which need to be reviewed to either be updated to newer upstream or removed from Ubuntu.
<simar> persia, so for UESH, should we get these packages into debian..
<persia> Maybe, but probably not now, as squeeze is freezing.
<persia> Better to just check for new upstreams, update the packaging, check for bugs and close as many as you can, check other distributions to see if anyone else has cool patches we want, and upload.
<persia> Note that lots of UEHS stuff is already in Debian, but just doesn't have a maintainer there.
<simar> persia, ok fine, but how to get started i don't know.. But I know somewhat about fixing FTBFS. Should I get to them first?
<persia> simar, Sounds like a reasonable plan.  I think it's best to do what you know first, and do what you don't know as you get annoyed enough to learn.
<persia> So someone like you should concentrate on FTBFS because you know it, and not worry about new shiny upstream stuff until there's some feature you simply cannot do without that needs one, giving you motivation to learn.
<persia> Or one of your FTBFS uploads ends up causing a merge, at which point you have to merge your work, etc.
<simar> persia, :)) , ya i get that,  are all these FTBFS for natty ?
<simar> persia, ah! the are
<persia> On the natty page, yes.
<simar> persia, thanks .. then i have the pbuilder for natty and i will get started now ..
<persia> And thanks a lot for working on them.  Just because they are easy for you, don't think they are easy for other folk (I find them fairly hard, myself).
<simar> persia, perhaps not easy for me either .... last time i had a taste that was bitter that ever.. haha
<simar> persia, Infact this is a problem .. I don't know how to choose easy ones. Is there a way out?
<persia> My general attitude towards picking things is to look for things that aren't too hard, and then do them.  If they look really hard, I look for something else until there's only the ones I find hard left.
<simar> persia, so you say, pick randomly and then look into them and analyse them .. if you can handle them..
<simar> persia, i think this is a simple one..
<simar> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tea
<simar> persia, i think this is a simple one.
<simar> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tea
<dholbach> Good morning!
<simar> dholbach, same to you  :))
<dholbach> hi simar
<simar> dholbach, hi
<simar> dholbach, actually I was looking forward to fix some FTBFS before getting on to merging..
<persia> simar, I suspect you're right.  Looks like the sort of thing mentioned in the natty open announcement.
<simar> natty open announcement?? how to see that
<persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-October/000772.html
<simar> persia, i have subscribed to natty-changes
<simar> persia, I make a note of gcc4.5
<simar> persia, as well as to ubuntu-devel-announce
<simar> Does anyone here knows how to install a pbuilder for natty in karmic
<persia> You probably want to upgrade to at least lucid to get the snazzy tools.
<persia> That said, you'll either have to install backports, or make a slightly updated pbuilder, and dist-upgrade it.
<dholbach> maybe backport debootstrap yourself (karmic only has 1.0.20), then use pbuilder-dist from ubuntu-dev-tools?
<simar> persia, my display goes totally off in lucid and higher . due to incorrect EDID ..
<simar> dholbach, what does backport debootstrap yourself means
<simar> otherwise i tried using
<persia> Newer debootstrap probably runs on older installs fine, although rebuilding from source isn't that hard.
<simar> sudo pbuilder create
<dholbach> on the karmich machine: dget -xu https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/debootstrap_1.0.25.dsc; cd debootstrap-1.0.25; debuild && sudo debi
<simar> sudo pbuilder update distribution natty ...
<dholbach> simar, and then   pbuilder-dist natty create
<simar> all this I have do without uninstalling the previous pbuilder tarball
<persia> Well, you want the karmic one to do the backport, really.
<persia> Also, you may want to devote some time to tracking down the EDID issue: karmic will be unsupported soon, and you'll want to be able to upgrade.
<tumbleweed> I doubt you need a newer debootstrap. Ubuntu has been using the same rules since gutsy. I just "ln -s natty gutsy" (I have my pbuilders on debian boxes)
<persia> Lots to learn if you chase EDID, but worst case, there's ways to hardcode around it.
<persia> tumbleweed, the newer debootstraps have the symlink predefined, and have little workarounds for stuff like installing the mailserver, etc.
<tumbleweed> persia: right. Anyway getting past karmic is highly recommended :)
 * persia has one machine still sadly stuck on jaunty, and is *really* hoping to get it upgraded in the next week.
<simar> persia, i want to fix that EDID thing .. I have also filed a bug in this regard. Could you help me in doing that//
<simar> persia, i think this has some relation to my problem https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-desktop-n-xorg-configuration-the-final-ten-percent
<persia> simar, Most undoubtably :)  Can't you do something with xorg.conf to work around that?
<simar> persia, It works in karmic but does not work in lucid may be due to nouveau..
<persia> Probably needs a slightly different xorg.conf
<simar> persia, Also if I install nvidia drivers in karmic for 3d, still i have blank display. But yes I can fix that using a EDID information exported from windows but then I can't switch my VT using Ctrl+alt+f2..
<simar> persia, I have to configure to use the exported EDID in xorg.conf
<simar> persia, also I can't change my display brightness in ubuntu. I can see the indicator moving but nothing happens
<persia> Sure.  It's a bug.  Only you can balance the bug against having more recent development tools.
<simar> persia,  Only you can balance the bug against having more recent development tools. .. i did't get this ..
<simar> persia, I see, i'm a very beginner in ubuntu after meeting you.. :((
<persia>  It's up to you.  I'd probably try to upgrade anyway, and deal with the brightness issue.  You have to decide whether it's more important to have limited X or to have newer tools.
<simar> persia, I too would like to upgrade but have no idea where this EDID information comes from and what to explore but I hope i can learn that, I have been working in input subsystem(touchpad in general) so I know somewhat about debugging X.. and kernel.)
<simar> persia, I have also written some documentation work like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingTouchpadDetection
<simar> persia, I hope you can give me a start like telling me the package name
<persia> I don't know enough about it to help you with that.
<simar> persia, ok.. :((
<simar> persia, I will work myself, on this first. So that I can upgrade to Maverick, using pen drive live installations
<simar> persia, Is using pen drive live installation a good idea to test this problem or there is a better idea??
<simar> persia, I mean display going completely off at boot time... I don't to spoil my current installation..
<ara> Once I proposed a merge on a new upstream upload (I am waiting for sponsorship), shall I mark this as Fix Committed? bug 662583
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662583 in accerciser (Ubuntu) "Please, update accerciser to upstream 1.12" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662583
<tumbleweed> ara: no, sponsors tend to look at bugs marked New or Confirmed. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status Although in this case it's a bzr merge proposal, so sponsors won't even see the bug.
<ara> tumbleweed, but they will see the merge proposal, won't they?
<tumbleweed> ara: it should show up here on the next update: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<ara> tumbleweed, OK, thanks
<micahg> ara: no, Confirmed is the correct status for Merge requests
<micahg> are we supposed to accept the deb src 3.0 patch name and headers or make an appropriate patch name and add/delete dep-3 headers as appropriate?
<ScottK> micahg: It's better to do the latter.
<Rhonda> The later, the former is just an effort to offer something useful, more a template.
<Rhonda> And I guess you edit the template debhelper files in debian/ after dh_make too, right? ;)
<till_> anyone have time to answer a short maintainer q? (debhelper related)
<ximion_> till_: Just ask :P (maybe I can answer it)
<Rhonda> Noone can answer your question if you don't ask it.
<till_> :D
<till_> ok, so basically, i'm using override_dh_auto_configure in my debian/rules
<till_> when i do, "dh_auto_configure -- --my-opts"
<till_> it doesn't really override, but append
<till_> is the only solution to do, ./configure --my-opts there?
<ximion_> till_: What do you want to archive?
<ximion_> never call ./configure directly in debian/rules, it just causes pain.
<ximion_> if you call dh_auto_configure -- <flags> the flags get appendet to the ./configure call - why do you want to leave out the default options?
<till_> ximion: well, they don't make sense for me
<ximion> till_: why?
<till_> e.g., it assumes a prefix i don't want
<till_> i could probably override prefix
<till_> let me check this
<ximion> till_: You mean prefi=/usr ? This is a necessary option to make make install install all files to currect destinations
<till_> i want /usr/local though
<ximion> also all libexec and other prefixes are set automagically to follow the packaging guidelines
<till_> don't seem to be able to change that
<ximion> till_: Why do you want this strange, policy-incompliant behavior?
<till_> ximion: a lot of other related resides in /usr/local etc.
<till_> i wanted to keep it close
<till_> besides, i didn't want my package to conflict with the regular package
<Rhonda> till_: Debian packages though don't install to /usr/local, so if you override that the package clearly won't be included in Ubuntu or Debian.
<ximion> till_: Prefix always should be /usr, otherwise it won't be included into any distro
<till_> that's not a problem
<ximion> yep ^^
<ScottK> If you aren't working on a package intended for Ubuntu, #ubuntu-packaging is a better channel.
<till_> i'm just trying to create a custom .deb
<ximion> If you want to avoid conflicts with existing software, install into /opt
<till_> how do i set the prefix to /opt ?
<Rhonda> And for installint to /usr/local you maybe want to do it without packaging, or use something like checkinstall or stash.
<till_> tried checkinstall already
<till_> i wanted something that can track dependencies ;)
<Rhonda> This channel though is like ScottK pointed out for packaging work that is meant to go into the distribution.
<ScottK> It's off topic for this channel in any case.
<ximion> till_: Okay. You will need to run ./configure manually then.
<till_> ximion: thanks :)
<till_> appreciate the help, none the less
<ximion> apropos packages which go into distributions ^^
<ximion> (now I have a question)
<ximion> I packaged "packagekit" for Debian, the package was reviewed three times and considered as really good, but no DD had enough time to sponsor it... As Ubuntu/Kubuntu uses PK, it would be nice for Ubuntu to have this in Debian too.
<ximion> Is anyone interested in sponsoring this package for Debian?
<ximion> and if not, can I merge the Ubuntu changes into my package and suggest it for Natty?
<Rhonda> You might want to ask in #debian-ubuntu on OFTC network. :)
<ximion> Rhonda: Thanks, I'll try :)
<RoAkSoAx> jcastro: ping
<xteejx> Hi all, what's the procedure for fixing FTBFS packages?
<xteejx> I'm relatively new to it and trying apparmor
<ScottK> xteejx: That's probably not a good one to start with.  It actually needs a kernel fix.
<ScottK> xteejx: I'd recommend starting with Universe packages since that's what we tend to focus on here.
<ScottK> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/#universe
<xteejx> Oops hehe thougth I was on universe :)
<xteejx> I've seen this in a couple of ftbfs build logs: "collect2: ld returned 1 exit status"
<xteejx> Is there a known problem or workaround?
<azeem_> it's a summary, the error is earlier
<azeem_> it means linking failed
<xteejx> the new gcc?
<azeem_> hrm?
<xteejx> It's the ftbfs of zvbi I'm looking at
<azeem_> so what is the error?
<xteejx> It could be the second line "sh: gcc: not found" and then it reverts to native compile
<azeem_> sounds possible
<xteejx> Anyone able to walk me through this one so I can learn?
<xteejx> please :)
<ScottK> xteejx: What package is it?
<ScottK> Ah.  zvbi
<xteejx> yeah scott :)
<ScottK> ../src/.libs/libzvbi.so: undefined reference to `S_ISCHR' is the actual error.
<xteejx> I see it, in proxyd.c
<ScottK> So the trick is to figure out what library provides that symbol and add it to build-depends if it's missing or add it to the linker flags if it's already present, but not found.
<azeem_> looks like a macro to me
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> azeem_: I'm about 98% sure you understand this one better than me.
<azeem_> hrm
<azeem_> I'm not :)
<ScottK> Please carry on ...
<xteejx> i'm 100% that everyone here undertsnads it ALL better than me :P
<azeem_> it's a V4L thing
<xteejx> vlc came up a lot on google
<ScottK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57799542/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.tiled-qt_0.5.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is an example of missing LDFLAGS.
<xteejx> /usr/bin/ld ... undefined reference ?
<azeem_> xteejx: S_ISCHR i used in the source code (and referenced in one of the included header files), but none of the libraries which get linked in provide it
<azeem_> -> undefined referenced
<azeem_> reference*
<xteejx> azeem_: I don't understand
<xteejx> I'm kinda new to this kinda stuff
<xteejx> Ok, it looks like sys/stat.h is missing but not quite sure where that should go
<xteejyx> How do you go about fixing linker errors? i.e. undefined reference to symbol XXXX?
<xteejyx> It's a FTBFS package
<azeem_> I don't think there's a recipe
<xteejyx> the build log says "try adding it to the linker command line" but I'm not quite sure what that means can someone explain it?
<azeem_> are you still looking at zvbi?
<xteejyx> No I gave up on it, now on wwwoffle
<xteejyx> It seems more understandable to me
<azeem_> ok
<azeem_> then figure out which library package ships the XXXX symbol
<azeem_> sometimes it's enough to just add it to the Build-Depends
<xteejyx> it's libgcrypt11, but it's alredy in the build-deps
<xteejyx> well -dev
<tumbleweed> azeem_: this looks like a binutils-gold issue, so it'll need -lgcrypt (or something like that)
<azeem_> ok
<xteejyx> Is that added to the debian/control file? is it control
<xteejyx> rules even
<xteejyx> sorry, half asleep here :)
<geser> xteejyx: upstream Makefile
<xteejyx> geser: Thanks :)
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: looks like that'll do the trick. Don't forget to forward the patch upstream :)
<xteejyx> So add -lgcrypt to the end to make "install : compile -lgcrypt" ?
<xteejyx> in Makefile.in
<azeem_> no, to the linker line
<azeem_> usually the variable i called LDFLAGS
<azeem_> or LIBS
<xteejyx> there isn't any :S
<xteejyx> But I'v learnt what LDFLAGS is now at least, makes a lot of sense
<xteejyx> There is "LIBS="$LIBS $ETR_SOCKET_LIBS"" in line 48 of configure.in ... ?
<azeem_> it's hard to say where the correct place for the addition is without looking at the source
<azeem_> does it use automake?
<xteejyx> azeem_: it does
<geser> xteejyx: you might need to check how the software checks for other libs and see if you can adapt it for the missing library too
<xteejyx> I'm looking around for those strings $LIBS, maybe in an include somewhere
<geser> it might not be necessarily $LIBS in the Makefile.am
<xteejyx> I'm looking at configure.in
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: as gcrypt is a dependancy of gnutls, how about getting it to add it to th elibs it links with for gnutls?
<xteejyx> That means absolutely nothing to me, sorry :(
<tumbleweed> also, doesn't look like this package regenerates configure from configure.in
<xteejyx> I thought that, since it's already there, but...
<tumbleweed> you'll see what I mean when you find the bit I'm talking about
<xteejyx> I found ac_subst_vars=<insert loads of stuff here> - it include those strings
<xteejyx> s/include/includes
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: hint, look for -lgnutls
<tumbleweed> alternatively, you can probably provide it to configure in debian/rules (which is a smaller change, but less upstreamable)
<xteejyx> I see line 4525 in configure
<xteejyx> Looks like a place I could slot a -command in
<xteejyx> I *think*
<xteejyx> -option even
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: Would that work? ^^
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: I was thinking more like 4493, but didn't test that
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: you asking me? How about a test build :P
<xteejyx> I'm tired..that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it ;)
<xteejyx> -lgcrypt is it?
<xteejyx> what's the debuild option I forgot
<alkisg> Hi, how can I tell `debuild -S -sa` to exclude by .bzr directory? `DH_ALWAYS_EXCLUDE=.bzr debuild -S -sa` doesn't exclude it from the .tar.gz file..
<alkisg> (so I end up uploading 2.5 Mb to launchpad instead of some Kb)
<micahg> alkisg: try using bzr-builddeb
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: ok I did debuild -S I'm really stumped now..brain freeze
<alkisg> micahg: ty, trying...
<xteejyx> micahg: How do I build? I've done debuild -S forgot what the next one was
<azeem_> debuild -S builds a source package
<azeem_> check the debuild documentation or --help output
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: now you feed the .dsc to a natty pbuilder / sbuild (but maybe I was leading you down the wrong path here, my test failed)
<micahg> xteejyx: that makes a source package, you can then use that in pbuilder
<xteejyx> pbuilder with .dsc that sit
<xteejyx> thanks micahg
<micahg> xteejyx: tumbleweed beat me by a second :)
<xteejyx> thanks tumbleweed as well I just saw your message, but no point building it lol
<tumbleweed> err I made a typo
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: How so?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: in my test. Keep working on it, and I'll see what I did wrong
<xteejyx> It is -lgcrypt isn't it?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: yes
<xteejyx> ok :)
<xteejyx> just create pbuilder and then build dsc
<xteejyx> *creating
<alkisg> I didn't manage to exclude the .bzr directory from the tar.gz file by using bzr-buildpackage, any other hints welcome :)
<micahg> alkisg: bzr bd --builder 'debuild -S -sa'
 * tumbleweed does bzr bd -S -- -sa
<micahg> ah, that's probably the shorthand :)
<alkisg> Thank you guys, that worked fine :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: you have time to sponsor something?
<tumbleweed> micahg: yeah
<micahg> tumbleweed: bug 634798, thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634798 in anki (Ubuntu) "anki crashed with AttributeError in __getattr__()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634798
<tumbleweed> micahg: still going to sort out those gjs SRUs?
<micahg> tumbleweed: yeah, I should do that tonight
<tumbleweed> :)
<xteejyx> In natty I tried to run "sudo pbuilder create" and I got this at the end "W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/16738/. dpkg --force-overwrite --force-confold --skip-same-version --install" - it downloaded installed and configured and then done that
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: sorry no idea. (you don't need a natty host to pbuild with natty)
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: I'm in vbox with natty installed, is there something other than pbuilder to use for now?
<tumbleweed> yeah if you have a natty box, just build it in there
<tumbleweed> there's also PPAs
<xteejyx> that's where I'm having the pbuilder problem
<xteejyx> sudo pbuilder create is right isn't it? no extra options needed?
<tumbleweed> no I mean just build outside the pbuilder
<xteejyx> how?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: debuild -uc -us ?
<xteejyx> Ahh ok :)
<xteejyx> So many commands it's hard to remember all of them
<ari-tczew> pbuilder-dist ?
<xteejyx> I'll try that in a minute, for now normal debuild -us -uc is working
<xteejyx> ftbfs wwwoffle - I tried adding -lgcrypt, didn't work, -libgcrypt appears to and actually gets past certificates.*, but new problem comes up:
<xteejyx> wwwoffle-checkcert.c:48:33: error: expected â=â, â,â, â;â, âasmâ or â__attribute__â before âLoadPrivateKeyâ
<xteejyx> I think I'm gonna give up on this one as well lol
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: did you use quotes like this?: GNUTLS_LIB="-lgnutls -lgcrypt"
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: I actually put it in line 4525 to make LIBS="-lgnutls -libgcrypt $GNUTLS_LIB $LIBS"
<xteejyx> and lgcrypt I tried
<xteejyx> neither worked
<xteejyx> but that should still have worked
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: worked-for-me: http://pastebin.com/Lih6MrhF
<xteejyx> thats where I've messed up then. How come it couldn't go where I put it?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: what does the line before that one do?
<xteejyx> ac_check_lib_save_LIBS=$LIBS  checks libraries? I dunno
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: (look at line 4551)
<xteejyx> d'oh
<xteejyx> Yeah I see that now :) stupid me
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: I take it you've diffed this one up etc? Any problems with me leaving this one if you've done it?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: you're welcome to it. Please pass the bug upstream
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: Ok :) Thank you for all the help, and the nudges to get me to learn myself - much prefer that to just answers
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: yeah, I learn more by diving in the deep end and working out what's going on, but it can be hard :)
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: Much the same with me, learn the hard way, but it gets results...eventually :)
<xteejyx> bug 662986 does this look ok?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662986 in wwwoffle (Ubuntu) "wwwoffle-2.9f FTBFS" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662986
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: ? ^^
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: we use debdiffs for sponsorship, not complete source packages
<xteejyx> oops :) ill fix it in a bit
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: the changelog entry isn't very descriptive
<xteejyx> ?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: it doesn't say what was changed, just that an FTBFS was fixed
<tumbleweed> it doesn't even say why it FTBFSed
<xteejyx> linker wit gcrypt?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: I would say "Explicitly linked with gcrypt for binutils-gold"
<xteejyx> binutils-gold?
<tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-October/000772.html
<xteejyx> why that name though?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: read http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<xteejyx> ok thankyou :)
<xteejyx> did my last message go through I got disconnected?
<xteejyx> anyone able to help?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-19
<psusi> what is the correct path to use when pushing a modified bzr branch back to lp as your personal branch?
<lifeless> lp:~psusi/ubuntu/natty/<package>/<branchname>
<psusi> thanks... got it... now need to figure out how to massage the bug requesting new upstream version into the right shape...
<persia> Shouldn't need much.  If you're using UDD, doesn't need anything special for sponsoring.
<persia> The sponsoring report includes any outstanding merge proposals into Ubuntu branches.
<psusi> what's UDD?
<psusi> I've updated lvm2 to the new upstream version... the one we've been using has been around for like 3 releases now and is quite old
<lifeless> ubuntu distributed development
<psusi> what's that?
<psusi> 20 upstream releases old in fact
<psusi> I requested a merge, but don't I also need a bug report to ask a core developer to do the merge?  I could have sworn there was a wiki page describing the process but now I can't find it
<persia> psusi, If you're working with packaging branches, you're using the Ubuntu Distributed Development methods, even if you aren't aware of them by that name :)
<persia> The current sponsoring report system collects data from two sources: 1) bugs that are subscribed to "ubuntu-sponsors", and 2) merge proposals against Ubuntu branches.
<psusi> hehe... ok... well yea... I checked out the existing bzr branch, imported a new branch of the new upstream release, merged them, comitted, and now have pushed my changes back to lp... so now I just need to get the right procedure for requesting a core dev to review the changes and do the merge
<persia> There's N other ways to get stuff sponsored, but those are the two that the Ubuntu Sponsors team currently supports.
<persia> Just submit a merge proposal on LP.
<psusi> isn't sponsors for universe?
<psusi> ohh, ok... I did submit the merge proposal
<persia> Sponsors is for everyone.
<persia> There used to be separate sponsor teams for "main" and "universe", but that went away as part of ArchiveReorganisation/Permissions.
<psusi> though there is an existing bug report that has been around for some time.. but #570374 that requests updating to a new upstream to get the new snapshot merge support... should I modify it in any way other than link to my branch?  it's bug #570374 btw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570374 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "add --merge functionality" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570374
<persia> You can verify that your request is correct by making sure it appears on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<persia> I think that's updated every 5 minutes or so.
<psusi> I've been excited about getting this bloody snapshot merge support for a year now... will be really neat to be able to dist-upgrade and have the option to roll back if things don't go well
<persia> lucidfox, Do you really want bug #92028 in queue?  Why not just upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 92028 in xchat (Ubuntu) "xchat does not do composite transparency, crashes if transparency is enabled with GTK RGBA" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92028
<persia> psusi, Indeed, although the next target would be finding a sane way to integrate basic one-size-fits-most LVM profiles in ubiquity.
<psusi> persia, allocate 50% of space for initial fs, leave rest to be allocated as needed
<psusi> when fs gets > 90% full, extend it to use another 10% of the total space... do same with snapshots
<RAOF> You know what would work better?  btrfs snapshots.
<RAOF> No need for that pesky up-front configuration; just format the whole drive (minus swap) and go nuts.
<RAOF> With the *tiny* problem that btfrs' write performance falls to ~0 once dpkg starts calling fsync :)
<ajmitch> RAOF: so it'd take about a day or two to upgrade from one release to the next? :)
<RAOF> There's a launchpad bug where installing from the alternate cd takes upwards of 8 hours.  A day for upgrade wouldn't be out of the question.
<ajmitch> probably a good thing that it didn't become the default then
<RAOF> Yeah.
<lucidfox> persia> The bug is for xchat-gnome
<lucidfox> as is the patch
<lucidfox> and xchat-gnome is in main
<StevenK> RAOF: Only on btrfs?
<RAOF> StevenK: Yeah.  It's a known regression in... 2.6.35, I think.
<RAOF> The practical effect being that on certian not-too-uncommon write loads, btrfs' write performance dropped 10x.
<RAOF> I can scrounge up a link if you'd like it.
<StevenK> RAOF: Just curious is all
<psusi> RAOF, hehe, yea, but btrfs isn't stable yet... and dpkg calling sync pretty much sucks balls everywhere
<psusi> really need to fix that damnit
<persia> lucidfox, Ah, I thought there was a patch for xchat there as well.
<psusi> it sure makes updating during the development cycle a hell of a lot slower on my ssd
<persia> It's not just ssd.  It's anything.  No cache.
<persia> (also, language please)
<RAOF> I don't think fsync, or a functional equivalent, is going away for dpkg.
<lucidfox> No, no patch for xchat
<persia> I doubt it: I've hit the other side of that bug without fsync, and that's exceedingly painful.
<psusi> ohh, here's the wiki page on how to do this... it says to use bzr merge-upstream to get a new upstream version... I just downloaded the tarball, extracted it, added it, tagged it with upstream-revno, committed, then merged that into the current development version pulled from lp... is that the same thing?
<psusi> it needs to.... the reason it is there is because of an ext4 bug but it makes updates painfully slow all over
<RAOF> Some parts of dpkg want the assurances fsync provides even in the absence of filesystem bugs.
<psusi> at the very least there needs to only be one big sync after all packages have been partially unpacked, then do the renames... rather than sync on every package
<psusi> of course, if you are doing a snapshot upgrade, then you don't need any sycning at all... since if it gets interrupted you just roll back
<psusi> didn't seem to be needed before the ext4 bug...
<persia> I'd not want "just roll it back" to be the answer.  I've had interruptions as a result of postinsts, and appreciated being able to dig through the issues.
<persia> But I've also encountered *uninterrupted* cases where reading from a file installed by dpkg happened too soon, and returned empty contents, resulting in problems.
<psusi> I mean if the system crashes during upgrade and leaves it in an unbootable state
<persia> I suspect that we just dealt with the fsync issues before, but once the ext4 bug appeared, and it hit *everyone*, we got around to fixing the old.bug.
<persia> psusi, Sure, but you can also have system poweroff, certain issues with certain classes of sleep/wake arrangements, cache pressure with OOM, etc.
<psusi> unless there is a crash/power failure fsync should not make a difference one way or the other
<persia> Sleep gets into it more than you'd think.
<psusi> and really, the fs should make sure that either the old version or the new version of the file are there after a crash... the fact that you can end up with a zero byte file with ext4 is a bug.. and using fsync to solve that has a horrible cost
<psusi> what does sleep have to do with it?
<persia> sleep/wake cycles can often detach storage, especially storage on busses that power down (USB, FW, etc.).  The local system will maintain a cached instance of a working filesystem, but may lose state in resync.  This might make a system unbootable, but is more likely just to corrupt /var/lib/dpkg/* with fairly extensive and unexpected consequences.
<persia> Yes, these are race conditions, but still.
<psusi> ahh, the usb disks die during suspend bug... that's a really stupid one too
<persia> They don't really die, just lose session for a bit and don't always reattach well.  If you have no in-flight transactions, it's not an issue.
<psusi> if they are mounted, that mount is no good anymore isn't it?  as if you had removed the disk
<persia> And there's hotplug PCI, although few people actually use it, which is subject to the same set of issues.
<persia> No.  I routinely sleep/wake with USB storage without needing to consider the mount.
<persia> MMC also.
<persia> Just in-flight write transactions don't always commit.
<psusi> I thought that was the issue I seem to remember on lkml a while back... the usb stack makes the drive disconnect
<persia> Sure, but drive disconnect doesn't break mount for stuff in the cache.
<psusi> well, that is another semi-related kernel broken-ness that has been around forever and I still can't believe has not been fixed
<psusi> if you have an open fd on the fs, when the drive is disconnected, that handle keeps it from being unmounted
<psusi> so you can continue to see whatever is cached in ram... but until you release that handle, the device is not unmounted, which means if you put in another disk or reconnect the drive... you're stuck using a half broken mount instead of mounting the new media or correctly mounting the drive for normal read/write access
<persia> Feels wider than that to me, but yeah.
<persia> Reconnection always works fine for me.
<psusi> if you have a terminal open at the time sitting in a directory on the disconnected disk?
<psusi> when I eject a cd like that and throw another one in, the new disc won't mount until I leave the old mount directory in the terminal
<persia> You're talking about a different disc (new one)
<psusi> I assumed a usb hard disk disconnecting/reconnecting due to suspend would behave the same way
<persia> I'm talking about the *same* USB/MMC storage.
<psusi> but it doesn't know it's the same
<persia> I think the difference is with "eject".
<psusi> it just knows the drive vanished, so the mount now gets IO errors trying to access anything not already in the cache
 * ajmitch should probably not suspend the laptop & unplug the external drive without unmounting it
<persia> I think some SD can eject, and some other MMC storage can't (as I've seen differing behaviour for different SD/MMC environments).
<ajmitch> I suspect I'll cause some interesting filesystem errors on that drive one day soon if I unplug it too early
<psusi> ajmitch, yes, you shouldn't... but the problem is that the kernel assumes you did, so when you resume, it does  a surprise removal and reinesertion
<persia> Dunno.  I had one machine with a SD that suspended ~15 times a day for a few months without reboot or issues with SD access.
<ajmitch> psusi: except when I resume, I don't have that drive plugged in still :)
<psusi> ajmitch, why not?  you just said don't remove it ;)
<persia> ajmitch, That's fine: you'll get an error on resume, and force unmount.
<psusi> except force unmount doesn't exist
<ajmitch> psusi: I take my laptop to work, leave the drive at home :)
<psusi> I still can't believe Linux can't do a forced unmount after all these years
<ajmitch> persia: it's more an issue if there are pending writes & the filesystem isn't consistent, right?
<psusi> NT had it figured out 15 years ago
<persia> ajmitch, Kinda.  That's the only sort of corruption I've seen.
<ajmitch> I only got it last week, so it's still a 1.5TB NTFS volume
 * ajmitch should repartition & put a different fs on there, fuse & ntfs-3g aren't the best to rely on
<psusi> I was playing some mp3s on a cd with thythmbox recently and paused the playback... and forgot I left rhhythmbox open... hit the eject button, put in another disk... and couldn't use the new disk... because the old mount could not be removed while open fds still exist, though it was detached from the namespace so you couldn't see it was still mounted
<psusi> very frustrating...
<persia> bugs to be fixed.
<persia> Anyway, fsync for dpkg is a good thing for now: needs ways to be faster (by fixing the underlying bugs)
<RAOF> As I understand it, fs transaction support would be faster and provide the reliability dpkg needs.
<persia> RAOF, Mostly.  Still runs into hw-access stuff (unless transactions can deal with that as well).
<RAOF> dpkg basically needs âthis thing needs to hit the disc iff this other thing hits the discâ, right?
<persia> RAOF, Essentially, yes.
<RAOF> Which is what (btrfs) transactions purport to provide (IIUC).
<persia> I wonder how they handle the case where hardware is detached.
<persia> And I'm also not sure btrfs works on all hardware: doesn't it require block devices?
<lifeless> ceph uses btrfs transactions for its metadata db
<lifeless> so yes
<lifeless> persia: ext3 works on non block devices?!
<RAOF> btrfs certainly doesn't require a physical block device; loop-mounting a btrfs filesystem in stored in a file on ext4 works fine (indeed, I've preserved a broken btrfs filesystem for later analysis by just that mechanism)
<persia> lifeless, ubifs does.
<persia> RAOF, Ah, cool.  That makes it sound like it's flexible enough to extend to erase-block managed structures.
<micahg> tumbleweed: patch for gnome-shell FTBFS attached
<dholbach> Good morning!
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<xteejx> bug 662986 - have I done this right??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662986 in wwwoffle (Ubuntu) "wwwoffle-2.9f FTBFS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662986
<tumbleweed> xteejx: I still don't see a debdiff
<tumbleweed> xteejx: also, it needs to be reported to wwwoffle upstream
<xteejx> tumbleweed: How do I make one? I mean I didn't have an original .dsc to diff with
<xteejx> I'm reporting it upstream now
<tumbleweed> xteejx: pull-lp-source can give you one
<xteejx> ahh right cool thanks :)
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: When you said report upstream, did you mean the dev or Debian?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: it needs to get all the way upstream. With any luck debian never need to know about it, so I'd consider reporting to debian optional, here. If you do report to debian, tag the bug with the same usertag as the other binutils-gold fixes
<xteejyx> Phew, I was thinking "no, why did I report it to the dev" :)
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: bug 662986 all done :) (I think)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662986 in wwwoffle (Ubuntu) "wwwoffle-2.9f FTBFS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662986
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: cool. Please mention in the bug report that you forwarded it upstream (normally you would link it to the upstream bug, but wwwoffle doesn't have a bugtracker). And then subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<xteejyx> woohoo :)
<ara> dholbach, yes, that was an upstream change. So I guess I have to create a patch for that
<dholbach> ara, I guess so, with edit-patch it should be easy
<ara> dholbach, OK, will do... later today :)
<dholbach> :)
<gnomefreak> is there a way to run strace on multable PIDs?
<persia> one strace?
<gnomefreak> yes
<persia> Would -f do what you want, or do you need something more complicated?
<gnomefreak> i keep getting http://paste.ubuntu.com/516206/ when using strace -Ff -tt -p <PID> 2>&1 | tee strace-<program>.log
<persia> Oh, strace *does* accept multiple -p arguments.  That's an interesting surprise, and exactly what you need.
 * persia likes manpages
<persia> -f or -F should do the same thing these days, and they ought attach to the forked process.  Hrm.
<gnomefreak> intresting thing is the output im the pastein is the same for any/all PIDs related to dpkg/xulrunner
<persia> Something odd going on there, really.
<persia> Maybe ask in -devel if nobody answers here in a while.
<gnomefreak> ill wait for Micah since he wants it, xul is not configureing for te past fewe days. thanks for your help
<persia> Alternately, try using strace -p <PID> -p <PID> -p <PID> (etc.) to see if that helps any
<persia> Although it might be tricky to get those if you've a limited time window
<gnomefreak> ill try in a few i need coffee :)
<dupondje> .join #kernel
<Gippa> hello!
<Gippa> I'm trying to package an application that is released as tar.gz off the internet. Packaging is (quite) ok, but I'd wish to import into bazaar/launchpad to leverage it for maintaining the patches to the original code. Is there any best practice about it?
<xteejyx> does -lzlib sound right for an LDFLAG?
<geser> -lz
<xteejyx> geser: Cool thanks :) Now just gotta find where to put it
<geser> the package is named "zlib1g" but the library is libz.so.1 => -lz for linking
<xteejyx> geser: Is there a list of these anywhere or is it just from knowledge?
<xteejyx> And is there an easy way to find where to put it? I'm trying to look for LDFLAGS, but not helping
<geser> the first part (the package name) is knowledge and the second part is knowledge too (of how to specify libraries for linking). I assume it's documented somewhere but I don't know of any right now.
<xteejyx> Fair enough, guess I'll just have to keep doing them :)_
<Bachstelze> it's just the filename of the lib*.a, minus lib and .a ;)
<geser> IMHO LDFLAGS are are last resort as every .o gets linked to it then (perhaps unnecessarily)
<geser> or lib*.so for dynamic linking
<xteejyx> geser: It's the ftbfs ones in natty I'm doing (or trying to)
<Bachstelze> right
<xteejyx> specifically, vite
<xteejyx> It's not something really simple for this, like hanging debian/rules from 	./configure --enable_otf in configure-stamp section to 	./configure --enable_otf --LDFLAGS lz is it??
<xteejyx> *changing
<geser> no, LDFLAGS is an environmental variable (similar to CFLAGS)
<xteejyx> I *think* I've found it
<xteejyx> in LIBS += xxx it was commented out, so added lz on it
<xteejyx> and uncommented
<geser> looks more sane as a fix
<xteejyx> well it certainly isn't me that is sane :P
<xteejyx> the file is pointed to as an include from the configure script to look for options, so fingers crossed!
<ari-tczew> does anybody have ideas for fix this FTBFS? http://paste.ubuntu.com/516343/
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Add -ldl to LDFLAGS.
<xteejyx> -ldl ?
<xteejyx> omg was I right? :O
<ScottK> /lib/libdl.so.2: could not read symbols: Invalid operation
<ScottK> So, using the recently described convention, one would want to pass -ldl to the linker.
<xteejyx> ScottK: Is that a general rule for all LDFLAGS, remove lib and add l for the name?
<ScottK> xteejyx: So far as I have been able to determine, yes.  No promises though.
<xteejyx> ScottK: Good enough for me :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: d/rules could be that? http://paste.ubuntu.com/516344/
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Perhaps.  Sometimes you can fix it in debian/rules, sometimes you have to patch the upstream build system.
<xteejyx> I'm on my 2nd ftbfs, both needed upstream work :(
<xteejyx> couldn't be simple could it? lol
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: there are going to be a bunch of binutils-gold related ones this cycle
<ari-tczew> ScottK: still FTBFS :( http://paste.ubuntu.com/516349/
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: What happens if packages are rebased again deb/unstable?
<xteejyx> Do we have to go do them again?
<tumbleweed> xteejyx: as soon as we've modified a package, we have to manually merge it to carry changes forward. Look for Merging on the wiki
<tumbleweed> this is one of the reasons why it's so imprortant to get patches upstream fast
<xteejyx> tumbleweed: I get it :)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Is the the same place it failed before?
<ScottK> If so, then you'll need to figure out a better way to change LDFLAGS.
<xteejyx> but isn't this all assuming debian take from upstream quickly or do they normally anyway?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: YES, CMakeFiles/fatrat.dir/qrc_resources.cxx.o
<ScottK> xteejyx: Debian is in pre-release freeze for Squeeze right now, so the pace of updates from Debian will be slower than usual.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'd try it before the --as-needed.  Maybe it doesn't look after that.
<xteejyx> ScottK: So slightly less of a worry for us at the moment I take it?
<ScottK> Other than that, I'm not sure.
<ScottK> xteejyx: Yes.
<xteejyx> Cool. Just wondered is all :)
<ScottK> The goal is to merge all packages needing updates from Debian at least once per cycle.
<xteejyx> Damn, what's the line in control meant to be for MOTU maintainers?
<ari-tczew> xteejyx: Use command: update-maintainer
<ScottK> xteejyx: Just use the update-maintainer script in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<xteejyx> I see
<xteejyx> Oh, easier than doing it manually, thanks guys :)
<xteejyx> I need to debuild -us -uc again after changing changelog and control right?
<ScottK> xteejyx: debuild -S to update the source package.
<xteejyx> ScottK: Will that create a new dsc to debdiff with?
<ScottK> Yes.
<xteejyx> Wow, why do I make it harder for myself?!
<ScottK> And it won't build the binaries which, if the clean rule is defective, will contaminate your source.
<ScottK> Hard way is sometimes the only way to learn.
<ScottK> BTW, man dpkg-buildpackage for details.
<xteejyx> It's mostly garble to me I tried reading it already :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: now other FTBFS message: http://paste.ubuntu.com/516356/
<xteejyx> Quick question, is there any way to remove all the build-deps I installed to build the source?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Progress.  Now add -lboost_system in the same place in debian/rules
<ScottK> xteejyx: If you installed with apt-get build-dep $PACKAGE, then apt-get autoremove should do it.
<xteejyx> ScottK: I didn't :(
<ScottK> Then you'll have to specify the packages to remove.
<xteejyx> manually? :( damn
<ari-tczew> ScottK, xteejyx: about reducing merges in development cycle: I encourage to merge new upstream releases first, but new debian revisions leave for FeatureFreeze.
<ari-tczew> usually new debian revisions include bug fixes.
<xteejyx> so rebasing a few times in the cycle is a good idea, but just creates more work?
<xteejyx> Well I'm getting my head round all of this now so I'll def help out
<micahg> ari-tczew: you increase the risk of fakesync's that way
 * ScottK agrees with micahg
 * xteejyx doesn't know what micahg is on about ;)
<ari-tczew> micahg: fakesyncs?
<micahg> also this time around, if we can help Debian release, there will be a flood of new upstream versions that we can merge
<micahg> ari-tczew: tarball mismatch in archive
<ari-tczew> ekhm, I wrote using bad words.
<xteejyx> micahg: You mean things like our ftbfs fixes for squeeze?
<ari-tczew> I mean about merging from Debian, where is new upstream release included.
<micahg> ari-tczew: oh, ok :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK, micahg: red color on http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/merges.html
<ScottK> OK
<micahg> ari-tczew: in that case, I agree with you, since a new upstream is more likely to take more work and not get a freeze exception :)
<ari-tczew> cool! and sorry for confuse
<micahg> xteejyx: a fakesync is necesssary when we import a new upstream version and debian imports a new upstream version and the tarballs don't match
<xteejyx> micahg: So the dev's upstream version changed?
<micahg> xteejyx: no, but if the package uses a generated tarball, while the contents will be the same, the md5sum will differ
<xteejyx> micahg: Aahhh so just the package changed, but not the contents, I get it
<xteejyx> vite done, bug 663375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663375 in vite (Ubuntu) "vite ftbfs in natty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663375
<ari-tczew> ScottK: built fine! thanks!
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Great.  Can I give you another to look at?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: another... but what another?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: sslsniff needs to be rebuilt so it will depend on boost1.42 instead of 1.40.
<ScottK> but it fails to build due to /lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.8: could not read symbols: Invalid operation
<ScottK> So it will need a similar fix.
<ScottK> Are you up for it?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I can try. But I don't give a guarantee ok?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Certainly.
<kklimonda> heh, there are going to be quite a few ftbfs this cycle due to those changes
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: btw. what do you think about SRU your patch to g-s-d in lucid?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: I have no opinion. does it crash in lucid? If so, the patch is small and safe.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: yes, but now I don't have installed lucid.
<kklimonda> I have a 10.04 vm, I can test it later.
<ScottK> kklimonda: Yes. We will also have FTBFS due to python2.7 being added as a supported version for extra fun.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: nice, but I have to upload a patch to lucid-proposed. with waiting to archive approval, it will take some days.
<kklimonda> ScottK: should fixes for ftbfs related to changes to linker be forwerded upstream?
<kklimonda> forwarded even
<ScottK> kklimonda: Yes.
<ScottK> Also there are often bugs open in Debian about it.  The patch should also be sent there.
<kklimonda> ok
<ScottK> They are minor bugs in Debian for Squeeze, but after it's released, they'll be RC for Wheezy.
<ari-tczew> debfx: heh, you could point on MoM, that you're working on this merge.
<ari-tczew> we duplicated a work
<ari-tczew> debfx: don't forget about forward changes to Debian
 * ari-tczew looks on QA/FTBFS page and is afraid, that developers don't test build before upload to archive.
<debfx> ari-tczew: yeah sorry
<ari-tczew> I think that developers should loose their upload access, if they upload packages with FTBFS commonly.
<debfx> though imho MoM is kind of useless for such messages because they aren't removed after the upload
<ximion_> hi
<ximion_> is there currently a discussion going on, or can I as a question regarding debhelper?
<ari-tczew> ximion_: go ahead
<ximion_> okay... I get the following lintian messages:
<debfx> ari-tczew: 90% of the packages on the ftbfs list are auto-syncs from debian
<ximion_> E: packagekit-gtk-module: pkg-has-shlibs-control-file-but-no-actual-shared-libs
<ximion_> W: packagekit-gtk-module: postinst-has-useless-call-to-ldconfig
<ximion_> W: packagekit-gtk-module: postrm-has-useless-call-to-ldconfig
<ximion_> but I don't know how to fix this, as the shlibs-control file is added automatically
<ari-tczew> debfx: I know, but I mean about developers, who didn't test build and upload package
<ximion_> the pkg does not contain a public shared lib, so it does not need a control file, but one is added everytime
<ximion_> does someone have an idea how to disable this behavior?
<debfx> ximion_: you could tell dh_makeshlibs to ignore that package
<ximion_> debfx: Currently trying it...
<ximion_> debfx: Works. Thanks!
<c_korn> if a patch only applies with an offset it is not accepted by source format 3.0 (quilt). how can I quickly refresh this patch?
<ari-tczew> c_korn: is it a big patch? if not, do manually patch in different place based on original files
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: ping
<Bachstelze> c_korn: depends on the patch system
<Bachstelze> quit
<Bachstelze> sorry
<Bachstelze> then just do a quilt refresh
<Bachstelze> I think the packaging guide has a link to a nice quilt howto
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Done.
<ScottK> Cool.
<kklimonda> c_korn: try rediff
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do you want to get this patch, or do you want to upload through me?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Just upload it.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you tell me why we should fix FTBFS, if binary package exist?
<c_korn> ari-tczew: how does the patch size matter? currently I do a; quilt pop -a ; quilt delete patch ; quilt new patch ; quilt shell ; patch -p1 --no-backup-if-mismatch < debian/patches/patch ; exit ; quilt refresh
<c_korn> Bachstelze: it is quilt
<ari-tczew> c_korn: I just don't trust these scripts. I prefer to patch manually in different location, then copy ready .patch file to /debian/ directory.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: should do I to forward this change to Debian?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Sorry.  Was on the phone.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: The reason for the rebuild is boost1.40 to boost1.42 transition.
<c_korn> ari-tczew: ok
<c_korn> kklimonda: thanks, will try this next time
<ScottK> ari-tczew: The patch should be added to Debian Bug #556373.
<ubottu> Debian bug 556373 in src:sslsniff "FTBFS with binutils-gold" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/556373
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: could you review MoM and comment, which merges are free? or maybe you are going to do all?
<ari-tczew> debfx: ping
<kklimonda> how to call git branches for ubuntu packaging? release or ubuntu/release ?
<kklimonda> (I wonder if it's even possible to use slash in the name of a branch)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: patch forwarded to Debian.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> debfx: Could you have a look at Bug #663435?  It seems like something that would be reasonably fixable for you.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663435 in ball (Ubuntu) "Ball FTBFS in Natty with GCC 4.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663435
<ari-tczew> ScottK: these rebuilds and FTBFS fixes are necessary for maverick too?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: No.
<ScottK> The linker changes are just in Natty and the transition is for Natty too.
<xteejyx> Why are there so many ftbfs failures for previous releases?
<ScottK> No one fixed them.
<ScottK> Things have generally been getting better in that department.
<xteejyx> Is it pointless doing it now then? What about Lucid? Sorry for all the Q's :)
<ScottK> xteejyx: Here's some trends over time: http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/ftbfs-final-score/
<ari-tczew> lucas: is it possible to filter your merge script, to show only 'red' merges?
<debfx> ari-tczew: pong
<lucas> ari-tczew: the merges are exported as json, too. so you can filter on whatever you want yourself
<xteejyx> ScottK: still not great though is it :(
<debfx> ScottK: is it caused by gcc 4.5 or maybe by changes in boost 1.42?
<lucas> ari-tczew: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/merges.json.cgi
<ScottK> xteejyx: Because we have some tool chain changes this cycle (due to no indirect linking, the move to gcc 4.5 as default, and the addition of python2.7) we know there will be a lot of FTBFS and since Debian is frozen for Squeeze it's unlikely much will get fixed there, so we should start now to fix stuff.
<ScottK> debfx: I suspect gcc, but didn't test the theory.
<xteejyx> Usually this would be done by Debian I assume in their unstable?
<ScottK> In generaly boost1.42 -> 1.42 has been pretty smooth.
<ScottK> xteejyx: If they had the same toolchain changes, yes.
<debfx> ScottK: where have you got the numbers from for the ftbfs stats?
<xteejyx> ScottK: i.e. the new gcc? I see
<ScottK> They will do them for their next release, so they won't worry about it much until after Squeeze is released.
<ScottK> debfx: I used the numbers from qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs.
<ari-tczew> debfx: I forgot what I wanted from you. but if we are talking, could you create a filter to merge script, which will show only new upstreams releases?
<ScottK> xteejyx: Yes.  All three of those will be in the next Debian release.
<debfx> ScottK: ubuntuwire doesn't show packages which initally built fine but can't be rebuild, right?
<ScottK> debfx: That's correct.
<ScottK> That's what we need lucas's rebuild tests for.
<xteejyx> Am I right in thinking that removing *-dev packages will not affect the system, as long as they're not removing other stuff apart from -dev packages?
<debfx> those stats would be even more interesting but rebuilding all packages after release is kind of pointless
<xteejyx> i.e. x11-proto-*-dev
<micahg> debfx: it depends, on an LTS it can make sense for packages that will need updates during the 3/5 yr lifecycle
<lucas> ScottK: can you ping me when it will be a good time to do a rebuild?
<lucas> I was planning to do one on 29-30 october
<xteejyx> What about the packages for Lucid, since it's an LTS, shouldn't ftbfs be fixed for that too if there's time?
<xteejyx> Or is it done via SRU>
<ScottK> lucas: Next week is likely good.  Usually not a lot gets uploaded during UDS.
<debfx> micahg: well, you'll notice that the package doesn't build when you update it :)
<ScottK> That's probabaly OK.
<ScottK> xteejyx: Removing -dev packages shouldn't hurt the system.
<micahg> debfx: right, but if you need a critical security fix, you don't want to be figuring out an FTBFS issue
<xteejyx> ScottK: Thanks Scott :)
<ScottK> xteejyx: If we can fix them via SRU, it's reasonable to do it.
<xteejyx> Makes sense I suppose
<ScottK> micahg: For lucid it's a little different.  We removed all the binaries we ~couldn't build, so the primary issue is making the archive more complete.
<ScottK> In some cases where we didn't remove it and it won't build, then it's definitely good to get the fix now in case of a security issue later.
<micahg> ScottK: ok
<micahg> ScottK: would you mind commenting on my MOTU application?
<ScottK> micahg: Have I sponsored you (I'll comment either way, but if you let me know what I've uploaded of yours I could do a better one)?
<xteejyx> micahg: Are you not already MOTU?
<micahg> ScottK: AFAIK, not recently
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  Link me and I'll leave a general comment about how wonderful you are.
<micahg> ScottK: thanks, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/MOTUApplication
<micahg> ScottK: I have something if you want to sponsor (transitional package fix for lsb-core)
<ScottK> Probably not today, so I'll just comment.
<micahg> ScottK: Ok, thanks
<micahg> I wish there was an easier way to see who sponsored what
<micahg> xteejyx: no, I just have upload rights for the Mozilla packageset at teh moment
<kklimonda> btw, is there some magic one can use to get a list of his packages sponsored by someone?
<ScottK> Not currently.
<ScottK> LP tracks it, so in theory it's possible, but IDK if the API exports it or not.
<kklimonda> we need the ultimate ubuntu database ;)
<xteejyx> micahg: Ohh. Thougth you would be MOTU you seem to know a hell of a lot about everything :)
<ScottK> We have it.  We just need better access to it (LP)
<ScottK> kklimonda: ^^^
<kklimonda> ScottK: I'm afraid the hell is going to freeze before we get an access to the (subset of) LP database.
<kklimonda> the best we can hope for is another API but for some reason I like the idea of UDD
<kklimonda> hmm.. abbreviation collision, trouble ahead.
<micahg> kklimonda: bug 614948
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614948 in Launchpad Registry "Option for list of sponsored uploads" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614948
<kklimonda> micahg: thanks
<kklimonda> micahg: you are keeping packaging for ubuntu in the same git repository as packaging for debian?
 * ajmitch has seen that quite often
<kklimonda> well, I'd like to get my hands on such a repository so I can play with it and see how does the workflow look like.
<ajmitch> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-cli-apps/packages/banshee.git;a=summary
<kklimonda> thanks
<micahg> kklimonda: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/vlc.git
<ajmitch> hyperair has the details of how it's used
<hyperair> ajmitch: hrmm?
<ajmitch> hyperair: ubuntu branches in banshee git repo
<hyperair> ajmitch: ah yes. that's right.
<hyperair> it's not too hard, really, just dump a debian/gbp.conf file with [DEFAULT]\ndebian-branch = ${branch}
<hyperair> makes it really easy to merge things.
<kklimonda> thanks, I'll take a look at both
<Rhonda> Does that mean that a git talk in ubuntu-classroom isn't needed anyway? ;)
<ajmitch> Rhonda: oh we'd love it :)
 * Rhonda . o O ( damn )
<ajmitch> helps document it for the rest of us, and those who read the logs
<Rhonda> I don't use git-buildpackage, so it would rather be a more general git talk anyway.
<Rhonda> I don't like how it forces one to have the upstream sources included.
<Rhonda> That just doesn't work out for packages like wesnoth or wormux at all.
<ajmitch> because you work with large sources?
<Rhonda> ajmitch: But even for "small" sources it's troublesome. You can't regulate what upstream pushes into it and one might have to rewrite history at big to get rid of certain undistributable files.
<micahg> Rhonda: a session on git would be great
<Rhonda> Anyway, this is still on my agenda and I'm sure that nig-elb will nag-elb me about the git session again. :)
<debfx> kklimonda: you probably want to use dpkg-mergechangelogs so debian/changelog is merged automatically
<Rhonda> I just finished my slides for the talk on thursday. ;)
<Rhonda> Subject: Your Classrooms Await
<ari-tczew> xteejyx: as I wrote in the bug, please forward changes to Debian.
<Rhonda> wtf, topic spam. :)
<ajmitch> Rhonda: great, when is it on thursday?
<Rhonda> ajmitch: 14.15, at the openSUSE conference. Unfortunately they neither do recordings nor streaming.
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> that's a shame
<Rhonda> I think they have a lot to learn from Debconf and UDS. :)
<ajmitch> or any conference really
<ScottK> Rhonda: I think that's generally true of opensuse, not just conferences ;-)
 * ajmitch has sometimes watched talks from previous years' pycon or LCA
 * Rhonda . o O ( <rumours type="unjustified">novell can't afford</rumours> )
<Rhonda> ScottK: At FrOSCon they had this talk about their build system where they also bragged around being able to build Debian packages in it. They though weren't able to answer questions with respect to that, especially what they do with versions when they build the same sources for different releases. :)
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: pong
<ScottK> Rhonda: I didn't look at it for a few years, but it was scary the last time I looked.
<Rhonda> Anyway, looking forward to it, will report about it in my blog (and at least offer the slides)
<kklimonda> can I disable make check for some subdirectories?
<kklimonda> with dh compact rules
<ajmitch> kklimonda: that may require some makefile hacking, depending on the project
<Rhonda> I guess parts of the talk is also interested to Ubuntu.
<ajmitch> since make check is usually just run once from the top level
<Rhonda> Anyway, off to bed for now.
<ajmitch> Rhonda: anything debian tends to be interesting for ubuntu
<ajmitch> night
<Rhonda> ajmitch: It's about resources that Debian offers that are useful for other distributions, too.
<ajmitch> certainly important for ubuntu :)
<Rhonda> Like the screenshots site that Ubuntu already uses in the software center - way better use of it within Ubuntu already than within Debian. :)
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: could you check whether can we sync package gnustep-base ?
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: IIRC, that patch has been included in latest package from Debian. If you're going to sync, be sure to also consider -back and -gui (if not autosynced already)
<DktrKranz> and have fun with the rdeps ;)
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: a lot of rdepends ... all have to be rebuild?
<DktrKranz> most of them
<DktrKranz> there are four stages
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: http://release.debian.org/transitions/GNUstep.html (show all of them)
<xteejx> bug 663375 - I already forwarded the patch to the developer, should I still inform Debian?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663375 in vite (Ubuntu) "vite ftbfs in natty" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663375
<ScottK> xteejx: Yes.
<ScottK> debfx: How's ball looking?
<xteejx> Ok
<ScottK> shadeslayer: You want in on the fun?  Maybe you could look at Bug #663485?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663485 in plee-the-bear (Ubuntu) "plee-the-bear FTBFS with GCC 4.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663485
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Do you do C++?
<debfx> ScottK: haven't looked at it yet
<ScottK> OK.  plee-the-bear needs fixing too if no one else grabs it ...
<ajmitch> with a name like that, it has to be a game
<ajmitch> so whoever fixes it has to play through the whole game, just to test that it works?
<debfx> I won't touch it then ;D
<kklimonda> hmm.. how to use dpkg-mergechangelog?
<kklimonda> when I do dpkg-mergechangelog maverick debian natty (where release codenames are changelogs) I don't get old entries for ubuntu-related changes
<debfx> kklimonda: man dpkg-mergechangelogs (integration with git)
<debfx> you need to put this file into the package: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-virtualbox/virtualbox-ose.git;a=blob;f=debian/.gitattributes;hb=HEAD
<debfx> and add some magic to ~/.gitconfig
<kklimonda> hmm.. ok, looks like I'll spend some more time with it :)
<ScottK> \o/ - First removal bug of the cycle filed.
<debfx> I hope it's a kde3 package :)
<ScottK> No such luck.
<ScottK> Description: Unbelievably inflexible build tool <-- Great description (not the one I asked removal)
<ajmitch> why, did you ask for yada to be removed?
 * StevenK prepares to purge it from the archive, and then NEW it, just so he can kill it again.
<ajmitch> I swear he's got it on highlight in his IRC client, just so he can stomp on it some more
 * StevenK will never tell.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: no, why you ask?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: A lot of these boost rebuild failures have C++ issues and I don't code in C++, so if you did, I would point them out to you.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do you mean about ftbfs such as we explained today, or do you mean about merge gnustep-base?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Not related to gnu-step.  Like 663485 I mentioned a bit ago.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I would like to help, but I'm pretty weak soldier to fight with FTBFS.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: OK.  No problem (was just checking).
<kklimonda> ScottK: 663485 (same with mumble btw) looks like a bug in boost 1.42, similar to http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317969
<ubottu> bugs.gentoo.org bug 317969 in Ebuilds "dev-libs/boost-1.42.0 MPL broken w/ GCC 4.5 (was: media-sound/mumble fails to build)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<kklimonda> or not, the way gcc prints those errors makes my eyes bleed
<xteejx> libchamplain ftbfs: I tried it locally and the problem is with libgirepository not installing
<xteejx> locally that package won't install at all
<geser> error message?
<xteejx> 1 sec
<xteejx> geser:  Package: hello
<xteejx>   Version: 1.3-16
<xteejx>   When I invoke `hello' without arguments from an ordinary shell
<xteejx>   prompt it prints `goodbye', rather than the expected `hello, world'.
<xteejx>   Here is a transcript:
<xteejx>   $ hello
<xteejx>   goodbye
<xteejx>   $ /usr/bin/hello
<xteejx>   goodbye
<xteejx>   $
<xteejx>   I suggest that the output string, in hello.c, be corrected.
<xteejx>   I am using Debian GNU/Linux 2.2, kernel 2.2.17-pre-patch-13
<xteejx>   and libc6 2.1.3-10.
<xteejx> oh god sorry!!
<ajmitch> heh
<xteejx> damn clipboard
<ajmitch> now that must be an old bug report :)
<xteejx> lol The actual error WAS:
<xteejx> Errors were encountered while processing: \\ /var/cache/apt/archives/libgirepository1.0-dev_0.9.12-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<xteejx> Sub process dpkg returned error code
<xteejx> What is wrong with me, that's not it
<xteejx> It failed to overwrite /usr/share/gir-1.0/DBus-1.0-gir, also in pkg gir-repository-dev 0.6.5-6ubuntu0
<xteejx> geser: Ahh I see the problem, debian/control, libgirepository1.0-dev and gir-repository-dev want to install, but both provide the same file
<geser> than that error needs to get resolved first
<xteejx> geser: But which one do I remove? :S
<geser> ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<xteejx> oh ok :)
<xteejx> How do I remove packages installed with apt-get build-deps ?
<geser> like any other package
<xteejx> apt-get remove build-deps?
<geser> I hope you have a list of build-dependencies you installed (searching for -dev packages might help)
<xteejx> yeah press up in the terminal lol
<xteejx> Hi guys, is anyone working on the ftbfs for gir-repository in main?
<ScottK> kklimonda: Sounds interesting.  Can you find what Gentoo's fix was?
<kklimonda> ScottK: libclaw has to be fixed first. But I think I can see the problem there.
<kklimonda> ok, got libclaw (bug 663485) and working on the plee-the-bear
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663485 in plee-the-bear (Ubuntu) "plee-the-bear FTBFS with GCC 4.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663485
<kklimonda> argh
<ScottK> kklimonda: Cool.
<kklimonda> fixed libclaw - bug 663560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663560 in libclaw (Ubuntu) "libclaw FTBFS with GCC 4.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663560
<ScottK> kklimonda: These changes should be sent to Debian as wishlist bugs (if there isn't one already).  They'll be RC in Debian for Wheezy.
<kklimonda> ScottK: yes, I'll do it once I get plee-the-bear built and tested
<ScottK> Great.
<kklimonda> oh, joys of cmake
<micahg> Debian actually has some DSO bugs already: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=no-add-needed;users=peter.fritzsche@gmx.de
<ScottK> micahg: Yes, but I've hit some that aren't bugged already.
<kklimonda> yeah, so did I
<kklimonda> actually every package I touch for natty fails to link ;)
<ScottK> For me it's ~half.
<ScottK> kklimonda: Can you upload libclaw or do you need sponsorship?
<ScottK> LP has confused me.
<kklimonda> ScottK: I can't upload, I've attached both debdiff and the updated branch to 663560
<ScottK> kklimonda: Thanks.  Looking.
<kklimonda> ok, got plee-the-bear to build
<kklimonda> ScottK: should I split patch to fix two different ftbfs: one related to dso and another to gcc 4.5 changes?
<ScottK> kklimonda: For Ubuntu, don't worry about it.  For Debian, it's two different bugs with different patches I think.
<ScottK> kklimonda: libclaw uploaded.   Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.  Please let me know when plee-the-bear is ready.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-20
<kklimonda> ScottK: I have patches ready but will wait for libclaw to be published so I can testbuild it in clean chroot (it's going to take less time for libclaw to be published then for me to configure pbuilder to use local repository)
<ScottK> kklimonda: OK.  Thanks.  Let me know.
<ajmitch> persia: congratulations on the CC appointment
<kklimonda> ScottK: btw, can you take a look at bug 663624? I'd rather not touch boost myself.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663624 in mumble (Ubuntu) "mumble FTBFS with GCC 4.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663624
<ajmitch> probably a wise choice
<ajmitch> nice of you to link the patch though
 * ajmitch will have to setup a natty pbuilder to test it out
<Guest71947> ajmitch: well, i did build both boost and mumble to see if the fix is correct - it's just that I'd rather not touch boost officially as I don't really understand it.
<lifeless> kklimonda_: who does :)
<ajmitch> noone sane
<ScottK> kklimonda_: If no one touched boost without understanding it, the work would never get done.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'd be interested in your opinion too.
<lifeless> ScottK: lol, true.
<lifeless> whats the change?
<lifeless> I ran into boosts build system and cried, some years ago
<ScottK> https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/changeset/61467
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'm just doing a test build of it now
<ScottK> Cool.
 * ScottK has been a bit distracted today trying to get a sewage leak in the house stopped and cleaned up.
<ScottK> It's just a "small" leak, but given the subject matter, even small is not minor.
<ajmitch> not pleasant in any quantity
<lifeless> ugh
<lifeless> ScottK: hope its gone soon
<psusi> anyone seen keybuck lately?  we so need to get this new release of lvm2 into the repos.... I just did a test dist-upgrade to natty after making a snapshot... reboot... looks good... schedule the snapshot to be merged back in, reboot, and I'm back in maverick
<lifeless> ScottK: ajmitch: I've read the aptch, bug and bugzilla discussion
<lifeless> it all scans for me
<ScottK> lifeless: Should be.  The "flow" is stopped and the first round of contractors to start the cleanup were here today cutting holes in walls and ripping stuff out.
<lifeless> I can get thumper who is more of a C++ head than I to eyeball too if you need, but I don't think thats needed.
<ScottK> As long as I can say "It's lifeless' fault" I'm happy.
<lifeless> hah
<lifeless> sure
<ajmitch> it looked sane enough, with what rusty C++ knowledge I have
<ScottK> ajmitch: Hey, you're our boost expert.  You fixed the last one.
<ajmitch> if that makes me an expert, then we're all doomed
<ScottK> No.  Doomed would be if it were me.
<ScottK> Nice.  Gizmod FTBFS due to not being explicitly linked to boost_system.  Turns out it's CMake doesn't even test for it's presence.
<ScottK> Sigh.
<ajmitch> ScottK: do you want to be the person that touched boost last, or shall I brave an upload?
<psusi> eww... makes me glad I "only" had a water main leak and had to replumb the whole house recently
<ScottK> ajmitch: Please upload.
 * ajmitch would love to have the laptop not sound like it's taking off when compiling boost
 * psusi still needs to get someone to review and/or sponsor launchpad.net/e2defrag
<ajmitch> psusi: I'd suggest putting it on revu, but that would require us to actually review it on there :)
<psusi> isn't that dead? ;)
<ajmitch> no, just pining for the fjords :P
<psusi> well I'd like SOMEONE to review my packaging, so I can make sure I have things down before it's uploaded to universe and I might actually become a motu myself to continue to maintain it ;)
<psusi> and it seems that the most interested person, jdong, is too busy these days
<RAOF> Is it up on revu?  I'll give it a once-over.
<psusi> no, but it's on launchpad
<psusi> launchpad.net/e2defrag
<ajmitch> first thing I'd question is whyt is it a native package?
<psusi> because there is no upstream ;)
<ajmitch> not a good enough reason :P
<psusi> it was abaonded decades ago and finally dropped from debian and ubuntu I think in 8.04 or 8.10
<psusi> isn't that what native packages are for?  is packages with no upstream?
<ajmitch> consider the forking from the old upstream & packaging it in debian/ubuntu as separate activities
<ajmitch> no, it's for packages that would be tightly tied to the distro
<RAOF> Native packages are for software that doesn't make sense outside of Debian/ubuntu.
<ajmitch> e2defrag seems like it would be useful on any distro & you shouldn't have to do new 'upstream' releases to fix some packaging bugs
<ajmitch> psusi: you aren't listed at all in debian/copyright?
<micahg> RAOF: ajmitch: does that include packages that contain upstream stuff but there's no upstream tarball
<psusi> hrm....
 * ajmitch doesn't know what sort of copyright notices you'd put in the source when you've heavily modified it 
<RAOF> micahg: How does that happen?  If you're packaging from VCS you generally just create an âupstreamâ tarball.
<psusi> but why should I avoid keeping the proper packaging stuff in debian/ in my upstream release?  I just don't see any advantage to that other than allowing me to make more upstream releases WITHOUT uploading new revs to Ubuntu... which I see no reason to bother doing
<micahg> RAOF: I'm specifically thinking of thunderbird-locales (which is the upstream xpis + packaging)
<RAOF> micahg: It should probably not be native.  Ship the upstream xpis in a tarball?
<psusi> I suppose I could add myself to the copyright file...
<ScottK> psusi: It's also painful for downstreams that then have to rebuild the entire tarball for trivial changes.
<ScottK> (which is why we like it when Debian doesn't do this to us)
<micahg> RAOF: that's what it was before, but I thought since there's no upstream tarball that it shoudl be native
<ajmitch> having debian/ in the upstream tarball isn't quite as painful as it used to be
<RAOF> micahg: Nope.  You just create an upstream tarball in those cases.
<psusi> micahg, that's exactly what I figured
<ajmitch> fairly sure that the 3.0 source format allows proper file deletion now
<micahg> RAOF: k, it seems I received wrong information before :), I'll fix it for Natty
<psusi> so other than it being native, anything else?
<ajmitch> export DH_COMPAT=4
<ajmitch> that's somewhat old :)
<psusi> and if I were to fix that... do I need to remove the debian/ directory, or can I just make a .orig.tar.gz with an empty diff?
<psusi> hehe... well, yea... the package is from the 90s ;)
<ajmitch> it shows - quite ancient build-depends
<psusi> I couldn't even find an original upstream tarball source... it was only kept alive afaics in debian for many years
<ajmitch> I hope that we've got rid of autoconf2.13 & automake1.4 in natty
<psusi> auto* causes me much consternation
<ajmitch> they're caollectively called autohell for a good reason
<RAOF> psusi: Is the description accurate?
<psusi> RAOF, what do you mean?
<RAOF> *HIGHLY EXPERIMENTAL* do not use on a filesystem that you care
<RAOF> 13		
<RAOF>  about as it likely will destroy it.
<RAOF> If that's accurate, do we even want it in the archive?
<RAOF> If it's inaccurate, it should be removed :)
<psusi> RAOF, yea... it directly manipulates the block device, so quite possible it can trash the fs
<psusi> RAOF, that said, I am fairly satisfied that it is working enough for people to test on unimportant or recently backed up filesystems.. I fixed all the bugs I could find so...
<psusi> but that doesn't mean there aren't others I didn't find
<RAOF> So, there are no *known* data-eating bugs?
<psusi> correct
<RAOF> How safe is it with respect to error handling?
<psusi> not at all ;)
<psusi> if anything goes wrong, your fs is likely toast ;)
<psusi> hence the warning
<ajmitch> can you make it work with a slightly modern version of automake?
<RAOF> Does it duplicate that warning on startup?
<psusi> hrm... I dunno... I still don't really know much about autohell ;)
<psusi> RAOF, no
<RAOF> It may be obvious that I think that it should :)
<psusi> <G>
<ajmitch> there look to be about 12 source packages in the archive that still build-dep on automake1.4, it'd be nice to not increase that number :)
<psusi> hrm... I also still need to figure out how to interface with initramfs-tools to get an alternate initramfs built so you can have a grub boot option to do a defrag of your root fs
<RAOF> So, it seems like, at this current stage, it's only really useful for developers?
<psusi> no... it's useful for anyone who wants to defrag their fs...
<ajmitch> and risk having it chomped
<RAOF> As long as they don't care about their data.
<psusi> exactly
<psusi> of course, EVERYONE makes regular backups right?  right? ;)
<ajmitch> though it wouldn't be the easiest thing to get testers for
<psusi> it might be worth mentioning that when combining the ureadahead pack file list with a good defrag, I was able to get my boot time on a rotational disk down to the 10-12 second range ;)
<psusi> by placing all of the files read during boot in order at the start of the disk
<ajmitch> right, then you can promote it in flashy lights on the fourms, omgubuntu, and other places where speed addicts like to congregate
<psusi> hehe
<ajmitch> good way to get some testers
<psusi> yea... with the big flashing warning BACK UP YOUR DATA YOU FOOLS! ;)
<ajmitch> do you have it available in a PPA?
<psusi> eventually I'd like to get it to the point that you can just choose an alternate "optimize" boot option from the grub menu every once in a while that will automatically run a defrag and pack all of the boot files at the start of the disk with the ureadahead list
<psusi> yes
<ajmitch> to get to that point, you'd need to convince everyone that it was stable
<psusi> that reminds me, I still need to get keybuck to review my ureadahead changes...
 * ajmitch would just like a boot time under 1 min or so :P
<psusi> to get it there as a default, sure.. but for those brave/wreakless individuals willing to test it now... hehe ;)
<psusi> 1 minute?  really?
<ajmitch> maybe a slight exaggeration
<psusi> I get like 30 seconds on my slow ass 1 ghz netbook with a default install
<ajmitch> but I've got apache, postgres, other tools installed
<psusi> ahh
<ajmitch> they can all add on a bit of time
<psusi> how do your bootcharts look?
<ajmitch> no idea
<psusi> lots of IO wait time, or cpu pretty much maxed?
<psusi> well, if it's IO bottlenecked, a defrag pass with the ureadahead list as input can help a good deal
<ajmitch> probably lots of IO wait time, but I've never looked at bootchart stuff on this laptop
<ajmitch> being a laptop, I believe the hard drive is 5400RPM
<psusi> yea..
<ajmitch> looks like it is from the model number
<psusi> I ran it on my netbook and I think I got the boot time down to around 25 seconds... but it's a 5400 rpm drive and only a 1 ghz cpu so it's pretty much cpu bound at this point
<ajmitch> 2.8ghz c2d in this
<psusi> then I made some modifications to ureadahead to suck out that 1 second or so of almost 0 disk throughput that is typical for most people
<psusi> lots of time staring at blktrace output...
<psusi> and debugfs
 * ScottK is learning about how a lot of different build systems specify linker options.
 * ajmitch wonders how many packages just be rebuilt after this boost fix gets uploaded & built
<ajmitch> I'm glad I've got a 3-day weekend coming up
<psusi> ok, so if I want to make e2defrag not be a native package, what do I have to do?  establish a baseline upstream .orig.tar.gz that does NOT have the debian/ in it, and then add that when packaging it?
<ajmitch> psusi: that would be the preferred option
<psusi> I just hate to take something out, only to put it back in.. you know what I mean?
<ajmitch> I can understand that
<psusi> so assuming everything in debian/ is pulled out and only added with the .diff.gz, do you see anything else wrong?
 * ajmitch has only taken a quick look for obvious problems so far
<ajmitch> I'd prefer it if the packaging were updated to use tools from this century :)
<ajmitch> it may be possible to simplify it a lot by using debhelper 7
<psusi> what do you mean?
<ajmitch> your debian/rules is a lot of boilerplate text
<ajmitch> it may be simplified to a 3-line debian/rules
<ajmitch> eg http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/cdbs_killer___40__design_phase__41__/
<psusi> really?
<ajmitch> possibly :)
<ajmitch> having the usual case be this simple is a good thing
<psusi> k... I'll have to read that and see if I can apply it when I'm sober ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<psusi> now where is sjr hiding?  he always seems to vanish from irc for a few weeks after a new release...
<psusi> need to talk to him about some of these ubuntu quilt patches to lvm2 I disabled or modified and my modifications to ureadahead
<psusi> because being able to revert borked updates is one of the coolest features I've seen in some time
<psusi> and bloody hell, I need to get the new rev of gparted going that can supposedly properly understand dmraid disks without you first installing kpartx
<psusi> that one has been on my todo list since 2005
<dholbach> good morning!
<delan_> hi, i'm not quite sure how the MOTU acceptance process works, but I have a couple of packages in my PPA and am looking for approval. could anyone please help?
<persia> Just needs two folk to review and like your package.  We generally encourage folk to post something ready for upload directly into Ubuntu on REVU, and post a URL here asking for a review.
<persia> We generally discourage anyone from posting a URL too frequently (more than once a day or so).
<delan_> would two URLs now be okay?
<persia> And be prepared for some folk to be busy or otherwise ignore it.
<persia> Sure, but advertise your packages.  Describe them in a way that gets people excited.
<persia> You want to end up with a developer who looks at it because they want it working, rather than just having it be out there.
<delan_> hm, i'll probably copy the description from my website, with a bit more spice ;D
<geser> delan_: you could also try to get your package into Debian and get it synced to Ubuntu afterwards
<raywang> hi, anyway know how to whip the whole disk with zero very quickly, (except dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda, that's so slow) :)
<geser> but I'm not sure if Debian accepts new packages right now because of their freeze
<raywang> s/anyway/anyone/
<delan_> raywang, afaik that's the fastest...
<delan_> geser, that's true, though i'm 'afraid' of venturing outside of Ubuntu ;)
<delan_> three years using Ubuntu and nothing else
<raywang> delan_, if I wipe out 160GB, how long will it take?
<delan_> raywang, let's assume an average write speed of 50MB/s
<delan_> that's 3200 seconds, which is almost an hour
<raywang> delan_, can it be 50MB/s?
<delan_> raywang, test it by doing:
<raywang> I doubt :)
<tumbleweed> delan_: Ubuntu largely comes unmodified from debian. universe packages that are ubuntu-only tend to get neglected. If you want to take care of your own package, Debian is a good option (probably the recommended one)
<delan_> raywang, my caviar green (slow, 5400rpm) can do 60MB/s write easy
<persia> raywang, What are you seeking to accomplish?  zeroing won't block data recovery
<raywang> persia, yes, that's what I want
<tumbleweed> geser: yes, the Debian NEW queue is currently backed up (got a package in there > 2 months)
<delan_> tumbleweed, where should I find specifics to the debian repositories and how to attempt acceptance?
<persia> My possibly faulty understanding is that ftpmasters aren't processing NEW until squeeze releases.
<raywang> persia, just want to capture the whole data without noise in the future.
<raywang> delan_, how do you test the write speed?
<delan_> raywang,
<delan_> uh
<tumbleweed> persia: that wouldn't suprise me although I haven't seen it announced
<delan_> dd if=/dev/zero of=whatever.file bs=512 count=2097152
<delan_> raywang, that'll write a 1GiB file and print the speed
<raywang> ok
<delan_> Actually, I was thinking that now would be a good time to just work with Ubuntu as Natty has just started
<raywang> delan_, is there any application to do this in fast way?
<delan_> raywang, that's my favourite
<delan_> if you want, you can write a shell script like this:
<delan_> #!/bin/bash
<delan_> dd if=/dev/zero of=whatever.file bs=512 count=2097152
<delan_> rm whatever.file
<delan_> that'll test, print speed and delete the file
<delan_> probably best to stick the temporary testing file in /tmp
<raywang> ok, but wipe the disk out is just dd if-=/dev/sda of=/dev/sda?
<delan_> no
<delan_> if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda
<raywang> delan_, oh, ? is just question mark. ;)
<persia> delan_, Now is an excellent time to work on Ubuntu: we just aren't really organised in a way that tends to encourage entry of new code: this team focuses on improving the quality of stuff nobody else is looking at.  Most of the other teams focus on preparing specific flavours of Ubuntu.
<raywang> to indicate, that was my question. :)
<delan_> raywang, i know. you made the mistake of doing if=/dev/sda, when it should be if=/dev/zero
<raywang> delan_, oh, my bad. :)
<delan_> persia, so, in effect, bug fixes?
<raywang> typo
<tseliot> does anybody know why quilt complains that a patch has been previously applied when it's not? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/516334/
<delan_> hm, i've uploaded, but it's not on the list. might have to be approved first, hint hint ;D
<delan_> actually, it's appeared now. all is fine.
<delan_> so, the two packages are at:
<delan_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/getbooru
<delan_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mathtext
<persia> delan_, Indeed, and for this team, updates to unmaintained packages.  We've a list at UEHS.
<persia> !uehs
<persia> Grrr...
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html
<persia> There's 100 packages that need review, update, cleanup, etc.
<adhorden> the build queue seems slow today, 14 hours to build my package
<persia> adhorden, It's generally slow as releases open.  This release is faster than normal, as there's less coming in from Debian.
<hrw> hi
<adhorden> I have been testing locally with pbuilder, but the packages I am working on have dependencies that I am also building packages for, what's the best way for pbuilder to get these dependencies inside the chroot?
<hrw> to get vim from debian into ubuntu I should first extract ubuntu changes, then grab latest debian and check which ubuntu changes still apply, then create new source package for ubuntu, build it and then give for review/sponsor?
<ScottK> adhorden: Use pbuilder login with --save-after-login, install the packages, and then exit.  Don't forget to reverse the process later so your pbuilder will be clean for other uses afterwards.
<hrw> adhorden: other way is to make local apt repository with your packages and add it as OTHERMIRROR for pbuilder
<ScottK> hrw: Yes, but if you look at merges.ubuntu.com there should be a draft package ready that is 'pre-merged'.  You can use the grab-merge script in ubuntu-dev-tools to grab the relevant bits.
<persia> hrw, Roughly, yes.  I think geser was working on that: there may be an opportunity to collaborate.  merges.ubuntu.com has some handy prepared stuff (last common ancestor, both source packages, an attempt at an automated merge) that you may find helpful.
<hrw> thx guys
<geser> persia, hrw: yes, I'm working on the merging vim
<hrw> geser: did you got debian version built at all? it fails on test here
<geser> hrw: I'm almost done, I've included the remaining Ubuntu changes into a new package (and forwarded some of the remaining Ubuntu delta to Debian) and I'm currently waiting on the Debian vim maintainer to help fixing a FTBFS with gcc-4.5 in natty
<geser> hrw: with a "buffer overflow"? yes that's the problem I'm waiting on getting fixed. The resulting binary doesn't work at all because the glibc catches an strcpy that will overflow on purpose
<hrw> geser: same
<hrw> geser: trying HEAD of vim hg repo now
<hrw> geser: 7.3.029 in other words
<ScottK> debfx: Thanks for taking care of ball.
<ScottK> (now you can tell what my bug mail latency is at the moment)
<ScottK> maco: Would you be up for looking into Bug 660363 and seeing if an SRU is appropriate?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 660363 in python-qt4 (Ubuntu) "python-qt4 4.7.4 breaks git-cola" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660363
<geser> hrw: unlikely that it will succeed as  http://code.google.com/p/vim/source/browse/src/structs.h didn't change since August (the di_key[1] and similar are the problem)
<hrw> ok
<geser> hrw: sort of workaround is to build with -O0 or gcc-4.4 (I don't understand why disabling optimization makes gcc-4.5 not catch that "buffer overflow")
<hrw> geser: right - same problem
<persia> -O0 seems preferable to 4.4, if that's the only choice.
<ScottK> If one picked 4.4, it would at least force the issue to be re-addressed later.
<geser> according to the Debian vim maintainer this is a problem with -D_FORIFY_SOURCE=2 and the vim Makefile forces it to < 2 but he overwrites that with CFLAGS in the packaging. He is going to fix it
<persia> Oh, that's a better solution indeed.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<kklimonda_> ScottK: I have prepared a fix for plee-the-bear (bug 663485), built it in natty pbuilder, installed and ran on maverick (as I don't have a natty vm yet). Haven't had any problems
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663485 in plee-the-bear (Ubuntu) "plee-the-bear FTBFS with GCC 4.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663485
<ScottK> kklimonda_: Sounds good.  I'll have a look.
<bilalakhtar> geser: ping, I got a mail from you, but its in some language other than English!
<sebner> bilalakhtar: german? ^^
<bilalakhtar> probably
<Laney> silly website
<Laney> it's a call for votes for the vacant developer membership board seeat
<Laney> -e
<geser> I know, CIVS sent out german mails because my preferred language in my browser is german :(
<Laney> Followup to the -devel thread would probably be appropriate
<sebner> Oh, right. I just noticed that this mail is in german =)
 * sebner waves at geser 
<bilalakhtar> Laney: ah, there you are, you are also an applicant, right?
<bilalakhtar> Laney and bdrung :)
<Laney> apparently so. :)
<geser> but the website when one follows the link is in English right?
<Laney> yes
 * persia waits for the day that !en becomes a factoid sending folk to #ubuntu-uk because the channel expects folk to write in German :)
<bilalakhtar> !en
<ubottu> The #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu channels are English only. For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<bilalakhtar> persia: its already a factoid :)
<popey> !uk
<ubottu> Join us for a discussion using the Queen's English in #ubuntu-uk
<popey> hehe
<bilalakhtar> lol
<Laney> pip pip
<popey> Tally ho!
<persia> Neither of those are in the same class as !de
<persia> !de
<ubottu> In den meisten ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuchen Sie bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Geben Sie einfach /join #ubuntu-de ein! Danke fÃ¼r Ihr VerstÃ¤ndnis.
 * popey fires up google translate
<tumbleweed> !za
<tumbleweed> hmm, we should add one
<Laney> .!learn za is ...
<bilalakhtar> !sa
<ubottu> For the Saudi Arabia team : /join #ubuntu-sa : ÙÙØ§ÙØ¸ÙØ§Ù Ø§ÙÙ ÙÙØ§Ø© Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³Ø¹ÙØ¯Ù - For Arabic language support, please : /join #ubuntu-arabic : ÙÙØ­ØµÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØºØ© Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ©
<bilalakhtar> COOL!
<tumbleweed> I doubt our IRC channel can support all 11 official languages...
<persia> tumbleweed, heh.
<persia> Anyway, folks playing with the bot ought do it in /msg
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: you can add it yourself, but it would have to be approved by jussi01
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: there's nothing to add - we don't have any regular trickle of south africans asking for help in non-za channels
<OpenAccessSTB> http://proxy.lib.sun.ac.za:8800/open-access/
<OpenAccessSTB> our university is going opensource
<OpenAccessSTB> live video stream of the event
<sladen> openaccessstb: "resource unknown
<ari-tczew> geser: heh, I'm not sure whether I voted correctly. List shows: 1. other 2. Ian 3. Benjamin.  All 3 options has got value '3'. I chose Benjamin with value 3. is it correct?
<geser> ari-tczew: you should have changed the values: your first choice should get the 1, the second choice the 2 and so on
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Just rank them , ^^ is right way
<geser> choice with the same value are equal
 * bilalakhtar voted for bdrung 
<ari-tczew> geser: ehh :/ could you reset my vote and send me new link?
<geser> sorry, I can't
<stefanlsd> Anyone got a suggestion - using sbuild to test build and it runs invoke-rc.d: initscript gdomap, action "start" failed. Which fails the sbuild
<bilalakhtar> brb, have to reboot after updates
<ari-tczew> geser: did someone DMB member leave a team, or is it a place for new member?
<geser> ari-tczew: nixternal left a couple months ago, but till now nobody set up the vote (the call for nominees is some weeks old already). So I volunteered to set it up (my first vote) with the known german/english mail :)
<bilalakhtar> ah, nixternal left? when?
<bilalakhtar> geser: ^^
<bilalakhtar> He attended the September 14 meeting, IIRC
<ari-tczew> hmm, I remember that he did a vote for me.
<ari-tczew> yea
<geser> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:13:11 -0500
<geser> he helps out sometimes till we find a replacement for him
<bilalakhtar> aha
<bilalakhtar> and why did nixternal drop out from UCC? Any idea?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: UCC?
<geser> sorry, no idea. But I guess the same reason as from DMB.
<geser> ari-tczew: Ubuntu Community Council
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Did I answer your query?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: geser did that.
<bilalakhtar> ok
<tumbleweed> sladen: btw OpenAccessSTB turned up in our loco channel again and pointed to http://oa.sun.ac.za/instructions.htm - but he didn't really mean his unviersity was going OSS, just Open Access (although they are have some decent-size dual-boot-Ubuntu labs)
<tumbleweed> (and that video stream is boring, even though digital repositories is my current research field)
<tumbleweed> oh sabdfl has a recorded segment that is about to play in that stream
<debfx> ScottK: you're welcome
<debfx> ScottK: do you know if boost can be built with threading libs other than pthread?
<ScottK> I don't.
<debfx> the problem is that applications that use boost threads need to link to pthread
<debfx> but I doubt unconditionally linking to pthread is the right way
<ScottK> kklimonda_: plee-the-bear uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.  In the future, there's no need to mention the maintainer change in debian/changelog.
 * chrisccoulson_ must remember to review debfx ff-4.0 merge request for KDE this week
<kklimonda_> ScottK: ok, noted :)
<adhorden>  hi all, I have been working on a package for msp430-gcc, a cross compiler based on gcc for the msp430 arch, problem is I keep getting: cd /tmp/buildd/msp430-gcc-4.4.4/debian/msp430-gcc && /usr/bin/make install
<adhorden> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `install'.  Stop any ideas? I checked the paths and they look fine, the rules is here http://paste.ubuntu.com/516877/ thanks
<adhorden> configure runs in the correct location as well as make
<geser> you sure that the upstream makefile has an "install" target?
<adhorden> its essentially gcc with a patch applied, so I would hope so and according to the gcc manual make DESTDIR=path-to-rootdir install
<geser> hmm
<adhorden> I can build it fine from source using essentially the same commands as the ones in the rules files to ensure I did not do something stupid, so I know make install works fine from testing the patches worked before working on the package
<xteejx> Hi all. How do I go about getting a package upgraded? Debian is on the older one as are we
<micahg> xteejx: helpl Debian release squeeze :)
<xteejx> Latest release of said package was 8th Jan 2010
<micahg> xteejx: which package?
<xteejx> linthesia - the one we have has probs with libpango
<xteejx> actually the dev upstream one does too, just compiled it :(
<micahg> xteejx: it's actually packaged, see debian 597189
<ubottu> Debian bug 597189 in linthesia "Please package latest upstream version" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/597189
<xteejx> micahg: Seems someone is working on it :)
<xteejx> bug 663962, it's annoying :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663962 in linthesia (Ubuntu) "linthesia crashes with GdkGLExt-WARNING **: cannot load PangoFont" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663962
<xteejx> looking at the source, the error is with     main_loop.run(window);
<geser> xteejx: if you're interested in an easy FTBFS, you might want to look at pybliographer
<xteejx> geser: I'd rather get linthesia working at the moment, but I'll take a look at that ftbfs later on :)
<geser> it's not urgent. I know how to fix pybliographer, but it's also a good one for any prospective contributor to gain experience
<xteejx> Ok geser, I will def look later on :)
<xteejx> I really wanna fix linthesia. I have dreams of music stardom lol
<Rhonda> Does anyone know if someone from Ubuntu is attending the openSUSE conference, like sabdfl invited in his blog?
<xteejx> I found the problem!!!!!!!!!
<geser> that was fast
<xteejx> If the font for linthesia is set with gconf-editor to Serif it works perfectly
<xteejx> pango can't use the default Arial font
<stefanlsd> Anyone got a suggestion - using sbuild to test build and it runs invoke-rc.d: initscript gdomap, action "start" failed. Which fails the sbuild. This a sbuild problem?
<geser> who wants to run the initscript? a dependency or the package itself?
<stefanlsd> geser: looks like dep during dpkg configure.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/516818/
<geser> I don't about sbuild but in my pbuilder the initscript doesn't get started
<xteejx> Ok, I'm gonna generate a debdiff for linthesia and attach it, can anyone check it in a min please?
<stefanlsd> geser: yeah, figured as much. thanks
<xteejx> bug 663962, can anyone check everything's ok there for me please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663962 in linthesia (Ubuntu) "linthesia crashes with GdkGLExt-WARNING **: cannot load PangoFont" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663962
<geser> xteejx: done :)
<xteejx> geser: Jesus christ!! that was quick!!
<xteejx> Thank you geser, I'll report it upstream to dev and debian in a bit
<xteejx> Reported upstream to Deb and dev
<ari-tczew> lucas: is your merge script pointed to natty?
<c_korn> where can I find the class RevuKeyUpdater ?
<lucas> ari-tczew: I think so
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i am around. i was at the Ubucon last weekend.
<tumbleweed> oh, right, you said something about that
<achiang> how does one create a natty pbuilder environment? debootstrap doesn't seem to know about it. [host machine is lucid]
<achiang> oh, i guess i can just fake it by creating a symlink in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/natty -> gutsy
 * geser copies the pbuilder chroot and dist-upgrades it :)
<bdrung> geser: why wasn't you at the Ubucon?
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: hi! have you looked at the gnustep stack yet?
<geser> bdrung: when and where was it?
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: Hi. I'm sorry, nope. I'm busy till friday.
<bdrung> geser: last weekend in Leipzig.
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: no big problem. If you want, I can give it a go myself, I've become used to do them lately :)
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: would be nice! I'm not addicted to this package. I just work on reducing merges.
<DktrKranz> ok then, there will be a lot of work to do :)
<bdrung> geser: http://ubucon.de/ - there was only one Ubuntu developer and no Canonical employee.
<geser> bdrung: a little bit to far for me to get there for one day (or two) (and I was busy till Friday)
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: good luck!
<geser> bdrung: I might be perhaps at OpenRheinRuhr in November (next to the German Ubuntu booth :)
<bdrung> geser: never heard of it.
<xteejx> geser: I've picked up the ftbfs on pybliographer - simple d/control fix I think
<geser> bdrung: it's rather small: http://www.openrheinruhr.de/
<geser> xteejx: yes, you just need to figure what's missing :)
<xteejx> geser: gnome-doc-utils (>= 0.3.2) in build-dep
 * ari-tczew counts that 47% of remaining merges include new upstream releases
<geser> xteejx: yes, but the version is unneeded as all supported Ubuntu (and Debian) versions have a newer one
<xteejx> geser: Oops :) hehe does it matter that I've put it in already?
<xteejx> It's ok I'll rebuild the source package
<fabrice_sp> geser, please ignore my last email: I've just seen that you sent another email explaining the german email
<geser> fabrice_sp: at least I know that way that people are participating in the vote :)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<xteejx> bug 664108 complete
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664108 in pybliographer (Ubuntu) "pybliographer FTBFS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664108
<geser> xteejx: have you checked that this fixes it?
<geser> xteejx: hint: gnome-doc-utils is not enough
<xteejx> geser: It builds perfectly fine locally
<xteejx> just adding that to the build-dep fixed it,  tested build before, same failure, and with that in d/c it worked
 * ajmitch wonders where this followup explanation about the german email is :)
<xteejx> Ich weiss es nicht lol
<geser> ajmitch: ubuntu-devel
<geser> xteejx: in a natty pbuilder?
<xteejx> geser: no in natty in a vm
<xteejx> natty is the vm
<geser> minimal vm or desktop?
<xteejx> desktop
<ajmitch> geser: ok, was just thunderbird being hopeless & not telling me of new mail :)
<geser> xteejx: you might then have one of the other missing dependencies installed
<geser> xteejx: do you have pkg-config and rarian-compat installed in your natty vm?
<xteejx> huh??
<xteejx> i dunno what they are
<geser> those are two other missing build-dependencies
<xteejx> oh :s
<xteejx> geser: I'll reinstall the vm, this shouldn't be happening
<geser> xteejx: or use pbuilder inside the vm
<xteejx> it doesnt work :(
<xteejx> brb
 * fabrice_sp uses pbuilder in a vm in some cases
<xteejx> Is it not possible to build natty packages in maverick with pbuilder??
<fabrice_sp> of course it is
<xteejx> oh...why the hell am I running a natty vm then?? lol
<fabrice_sp> specify natty as distribution in pbuilder params
 * ajmitch is building natty packages on lucid
<fabrice_sp> only you know the answer to that question :-D
 * xteejx is so dumb
<xteejx> lol
<ajmitch> it is useful to have a VM for testing though
<xteejx> thanks :)
<jcastro> not dumb, just working too hard for the simple answer. :)
<xteejx> jcastro: hahaha I like that one, I might have to use it in future ;)
<xteejx> Unrelated question: Is UDS going to be streamed? (I don't have much input, just want to see what happens)
<jcastro> audio streams always
<jcastro> video streams likely for the plenary sessions
<xteejx> jcastro: What are plenary sessions?
<jcastro> http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/remote/
<jcastro> the big meetings with everyone
<xteejx> Ohh I see :)
<ajmitch> plus realtime discussion on irc as well
<xteejx> I don't plan on getting involved, another couple of years maybe ;)
<ajmitch> why wait?
<xteejx> I don't see an intermediate user like myself has much to say to Canonical about where they're taking Ubuntu
<ajmitch> everyone has a say in how things are done. whether they agree with you is another matter, but you can at least be heard :)
<xteejx> ajmitch: Hmm, I suppose so
<xteejx> sudo pbuilder cteate --distribution natty << will that work?
 * ajmitch has been to UDS a few times now & didn't feel like he was ignored
<ajmitch> I think it should work
<xteejx> If  I typed it correctly I mean :P
<xteejx> Cool :)
<micahg> xteejx: take a look at pbuilder-dist
<fabrice_sp> I was going to say that :-)
<xteejx> I'll man it
<xteejx> micahg: That's pretty clever :) Thanks micah
<micahg> xteejx: np
<xteejx> Does pbuilder remove any build-deps for the next build you do?
<ajmitch> every build is done in a clean chroot
<xteejx> So it's just the base install then?
<ajmitch> yes
<xteejx> Oh that's good, much easier than doing it in a vm
<fabrice_sp> yep: the build build is tarball is used as a basis for the build each time
<ajmitch> it does cache copies of build-dependencies, so you don't have to download them for every build
<xteejx> :)
<geser> xteejx: pbuilder uses a base.tgz (which gets created with "create" :) which gets unpackage before build, chrooted into, build-deps installed, the package build (or not) and thrown away afterwards
<xteejx> Andif the base files get updated, I just do pbuilder update ?
<geser> exactly
<xteejx> I think Mr Castro was right...doing things the hard way for an easy solution hehe
<ari-tczew> xteejx: for forwarding changes to Debian you could use command: submittodebian
<ajmitch> yep :)
<xteejx> So another easy way instead of keep emailing them heh
<geser> xteejx: and also "pbuilder-dist natty update" to update the Packages files (for apt) *inside* the pbuilder (so it knows about updated packages)
<xteejx> I suppose with the repetitive stuff, things have to be made to make it easier :)
<xteejx> geser: I get it :D
<xteejx> Well this is definitely going to save time
<ari-tczew> xteejx: or send mail to bug tracker in the form: http://paste.ubuntu.com/517032/ attaching patch(es)
<xteejx> ari-tczew: I've been doing that, well without the tag bit :)
<ari-tczew> I use above mail template. It's easier for me than milion questions from submittodebian.
<xteejx> :D
<ajmitch> or just do it manually if you like hard solutions :)
<xteejx> hahaha ;)
<xteejx> Is everyone here cheeky but funny? :P
<ajmitch> no, I don't pretend to be funny
<ari-tczew> ;o
<xteejx> Well it's not working hehe
<xteejx> or is...
<xteejx> I hate double negatives, it always comes out wrong
<ari-tczew> xteejx: are you going to do another MOTU activities as well?
<xteejx> ari-tczew: I'm thinking of doing merges, have done 1 small bugfix (mostly luck with that one)
<xteejx> I don't know really, I suppose I'll see which way the feeling takes me :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: we are looking for new contributors
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Well I definitely try to muck in and help how I can
<ari-tczew> within some days I'll start encourage on Polish forum to contribute to Ubuntu
<xteejx> I'm not Polish
<ari-tczew> xteejx: I just said where I want to look for new contributors.
<xteejx> Ohh, sorry, I didn't understand :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: I noticed that there is a language problem in your communication.
 * ajmitch should stir up some interested people in the loco channel :)
<ari-tczew> as few minutes ago
<xteejx> Mine?
<xteejx> My English is perfect
<xteejx> I was born and live here lol
<ari-tczew> heh
<xteejx> I'm just a little lazy with typing :P
<xteejx> Am I right in thinking that pbuilder builds the .dsc's?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: yes
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Thank you :)
<xteejx> If I make changes in the source, how do I create the .dsc to use pbuilder with?
<micahg> xteejx: take a look at the options for debuild
<xteejx> micahg: Is it debuild -S - I just want to ask first before I mess it up
<geser> xteejx: debuild -S
<micahg> xteejx: yeah, that'll make a source build
<xteejx> Thanks guys :)
<geser> you might want to add -us -uc if you don't want to get asked for signing it
<xteejx> Ok :)
<xteejx> "sudo pbuilder-dist natty build pybliographer_1.2.14-1ubuntu1.dsc" will test it right?
<geser> yes
<xteejx> I think I've got the hang of it now :)
<xteejx> geser: pbuilder is still saying gnome-doc-utils not found
<xteejx> I used debuild -S
<geser> xteejx: as I said, gnome-doc-utils isn't enough
<geser> look at the check before the check for gnome-doc-utils
<xteejx> ahhh pkg-config I didn't see that :)
<geser> you should see that it checks for pkg-config but doesn't find it
<xteejx> hmm - "/bin/sh: scrollkeeper-config: not found" maybe scrollkepper too
<xteejx> will have to check pkg name
<geser> yes
<xteejx> is it just scrollkeeper?
<xteejx> ahh its a transitional pkg
<geser> use packages.ubuntu.com to search which package contains such a named file (or use apt-file)
<xteejx> ok thanks geser
<xteejx> rarian-compat - apt-file, another thing being kept and used hehe
<ajmitch> ScottK: sorry, I got distracted by a meeting at work as well this morning ;)
<ScottK> ajmitch: No problem.
<xteejx> bug 664108 updated and *really* fixed now :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664108 in pybliographer (Ubuntu) "pybliographer FTBFS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664108
<ScottK> Slow hard drive.  Still unpacking ...
 * ajmitch would love an SSD to build on
 * xteejx agrees with ajmitch
<xteejx> bang, done
<geser> xteejx: putting it in Build-Depends-Indep would be better
<xteejx> geser: Really? What's the difference?
<xteejx> Doing it now
<geser> in practice it won't make any difference for this package but Build-Depends are build-dependencies for arch-dependent stuff while B-D-Indep for arch-independent stuff
<xteejx> geser: Done
<geser> xteejx: you know that you can delete attachments from a bug?
<xteejx> so b-d-i would be more for python, i.e. xxx.yubuntuz_all packages?
<ScottK> Yes.  Although anything needed for the clean rule to run goes in b-d and not b-d-i.
<xteejx> geser: I do now
<xteejx> Right, got it :)
<geser> xteejx: the last debdiff is now the same as mine (modulo the changelog entry)
<xteejx> geser: Woohoo, got there eventually ;)
<geser> as usual don't forget to forward it to Debian
<xteejx> And now I understand *why* it's like that, so it's win-win :)
<xteejx> geser: Yup, already on it ;)
<geser> will sponsor it tomorrow (if nobody beats me)
<xteejx> Ok no probs
<ScottK> ajmitch: Looks like it's not hard coded anymore, so a rebuild should do it.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> I'm just doing a rebuild locally after adding some patch header info
<ScottK> Cool.
<ajmitch> won't be long before I upload & you can find & retry those build failures
<tumbleweed> xteejx: When you forward a bug to debian please link it to the lp bug. Also this one really should be serious in debian - FTBFS is RC.
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Oops. RC?
<tumbleweed> release critical
<xteejx> Oh, I didn't realise :S
<ScottK> Make sure it's FTBFS in Debian too.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: it does :)
<ajmitch>     ln -f -s 'libboost_python-py27.so.1.42.0' '/tmp/buildd/boost1.42-1.42.0/debian/tmp/usr/lib/libboost_python-py27.so'
<ajmitch> looks like it's building with python 2.7 at least
<ajmitch> still going of course :)
<xteejx> How do I set critical when filing a bug to deb via email?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: BTS is entirely e-mail driven http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ (I've bumped this ones severity for you)
<micahg> xteejx: Debian actually has a larger range of Importance than LP, so you'll want to make sure it's actually critical
<xteejx> So do it manually on the site?
<micahg> xteejx: there's a BTS cli utility if you have a mail server set up
<xteejx> micahg: I don't, and not sure how to do it
<tumbleweed> the initial severity, tags, etc are set in the top of the body of your e-mail (psuedo-headers). You can change them later by mailing control@bugs.debian.org
<xteejx> Too much messing around
<xteejx> Oh right ok :)
<tumbleweed> xteejx: you do run lintian, right? W: pybliographer: debian-changelog-line-too-long line 1
<tumbleweed> ^ that's your entry
<xteejx> :(
<xteejx> Can I not just add + and paste it in?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: I fixed it on upload. But if I don't tell you about it, you'll never know
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Ok, I'll check the lintian errors in future, sorry about that
<tumbleweed> most packages already cause lintian to complain. You just want to check that none of the (potential) issues are a problem for us, and that you aren't responsible for any of them
<xteejx> tumbleweed: I understand :)
<xteejx> bug 664209, another ftbfs fixed, debdiff should be perfect now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664209 in basic256 (Ubuntu) "basic256 FTBFS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664209
<xteejx> What is the LDFLAGS for /usr/lib/libHalf.so.6 ?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: do you notice that the -dev package for that has a .pc file, you should use that
<xteejx> tumbleweed: I don't get what you mean
<tumbleweed> dpkg -L libilmbase-dev | grep pc <- that file will help you
<xteejx> tumbleweed: With that /usr/lib/libHalf.so.6 ?
<tumbleweed> dpkg -S /usr/lib/libHalf.so.6 says libilmbase6
<xteejx> Ohhhh, I thought you meant the bug I filed, sorry not thinking clearly
<xteejx> So that package provides that file?
<tumbleweed> read up on pkg-config
<xteejx> I'm really confused, its cimg I'm doing now, it's a binutils-gold one
<xteejx> I thought we had to add the appropriate -lXXX ?
<tumbleweed> I haven't looked at this one, but presumaly they aren't using -lHalf like they should, and even the .pc file includes it, so they should probably be using pkg-config
<xteejx> I don't understand enough about this to know why, or even what it is/does
<xteejx> :(
<tumbleweed> libraries are sometimes a little complex to use, so some provide scripts to output th ecorrect CFLAGS and LDFLAGS to link against them.
<tumbleweed> pkg-config attempts to provide a common infrastructure for this
<xteejx> so pkg-config when used in a package automatically configures the correct flags?
<tumbleweed> $ pkg-config --libs IlmBase
<tumbleweed> -lImath -lHalf -lIex -lIlmThread -lpthread
<tumbleweed> of course not all libraries provide .pc files, and many are simple enough that they probably don't need to.
<xteejx> do you mean that IlmBase provides those linker flags
<xteejx> ?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-21
<tumbleweed> I mean libilmbase-dev knows what's needed to link to it, if you use pkg-config to find out
<xteejx> I'm *really* confused now...
<xteejx> Sorry I'm not understanding it all, I am trying to, but sometimes it's a bit _too_ much
<tumbleweed> xteejx: basically I'm saying that instead of hardcoding -lHalf into this makefile you should probably add something like $(shell pkg-config --libs IlmBase)
<tumbleweed> also I'm telling you that .pc files exist and may help you when you are trying to find your way around libraries you don't know
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Can I not just add -lHalf to the debian/rules (there is a suitable place for it, and it wouldn't change the main source)?
<xteejx> I understand the .pc files thing...sort of, well more so than the other stuff :)
<tumbleweed> xteejx: yes, we like minimal changes in ubuntu, but you also need to forward something upstream
<xteejx> Upstream dev I assume? Surely they'd fix it anyway with the new gcc?
<tumbleweed> no, if they use a new gcc they'll run into this
<xteejx> Doesn't that mean they'll fix it anyway, is what I mean?
<xteejx> Just wondering
<tumbleweed> put it this way, do we want to maintain every fix for every bug that we've only discovered in ubuntu? It would quickly become unmanageable, esp in universe where we have little manpower for the size of the archive. We want to ship unmodified source wherever we can.
<xteejx> Right, so sending these fixes to Deb and dev will help eliminate the need for that I assume?
<xteejx> I think I understand that now
<tumbleweed> yip, try to do that where possible
<tumbleweed> (unless it's something that'll never be relevent for them)
<xteejx> Modifying the source here in Ubuntu and then sending those changes to Deb and dev will remove the need for....
<tumbleweed> will mean that they'll fix it and we can go back to unmodified
<xteejx> patching rules or whatever when it comes to syncing again?
<xteejx> Staying closer to Debian, I  get it
<xteejx> well...unmodified, not necessarily Deb
<tumbleweed> most of the time, it's debian. And we only auto-sync from debian
<xteejx> I mean if Deb haven't made changes we're just as equally close to dev version :)
<xteejx> It seems to be compiling with the change in debian/rules, but that's not in the upstream source :(
<xteejx> I'll scrollback to the other bit
<tumbleweed> I'm guessing CIMG_EXR_LDFLAGS in examples/Makefile
<xteejx> I did see that when I grepped for LDFLAGS
<xteejx> I thought we weren't meant to modify the source
<xteejx> or is that just merges?
<tumbleweed> most of the time, we try to fix things inside debian/rules if possible (and yes that's not upstream source). But that's often not possible.
<tumbleweed> this package uses source format 3.0 (quilt), so it can take quilt patches
<xteejx> but ftbfs is different because this would be a problem WITH the source and we'd have to pass the fix to the dev right?
<tumbleweed> I'm not entirely sure I understand your question
<Bachstelze> xteejx: a lot of things can cause a FTBFS
<xteejx> when we're fixing ftbfs errors, is it ok to mod the source, I mean like these ones?
<xteejx> sorry it's late, not making myself clear
<tumbleweed> yes. ftbfs is just a class of bug, a nice obvious one
<tumbleweed> it's great when packages have good test suites - then they ftbfs when anything goes wrong
<xteejx> Ok, so the main question is this...why bother with quilt or patching at all?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: if you have an easy fix involving debian/rules, use it.
<Bachstelze> xteejx: sometimes you need to patch the source, but noot always
<xteejx> but this is different because the dev will do this anyway with the gcc change?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: I was taking you down that route so you can file a bug with upstream with a fix that's good for them. But that doesn't have to be the same fix we use
<xteejx> Right I see. But of course if we can help them,, we should?
<tumbleweed> that's always good - and I'm probably a little more pedantic about that than some of the old-hands
<xteejx> Or to put it another way....
<xteejx> We don't have to, but we do :)
<tumbleweed> I think teaching new devs good habits is beneficial
<xteejx> No, I totally agree
<xteejx> Best to get in good habits instead of bad old ways
<xteejx> I've actually just forwarded that basic256 fix to debian, should probably inform the dev too?
<tumbleweed> I tend to not bother when I've informed debian - because th edebian maintainer of a package probably has an existing relationship with the upstream. But some packages in debian are pretty neglected.
<xteejx> I see
<xteejx> You know, I can't believe how helpful and patient most are here!
<tumbleweed> sometimes we aren't :) I'm just busy finishing reading an article before going to bed - and it's taken a little longer than I expected :)
<xteejx> sorry :)
<tumbleweed> heh no problem, just finished it. night.
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Goodnight, and thank you again :)
<micahg> xteejx: that's one of the things I love about this community
<xteejx> micahg: Definitely!
<xteejx> Makes a change. Back in my old days with Fedora...nothing, you're on your own
<xteejx> and I was only a user
<xteejx> in debian/rules with a ftbfs package I have " override_dh_auto_install: cd examples && $(MAKE) Mlinux "LDFLAGS=-lm -lpthread" "  would just adding -lHalf in there be ok or should I make an attempt to fix the source?
<xteejx> Not sure where to do it if so
<xteejx> Or remove that from rules and add those flags directly to the source in that file it wants?
<xteejx> Plus the -lHalf
<xteejx> Hmm, there's a LOT of LDFLAGS options on the Makefile
<xteejx> Hmm, think I'll give up for tonight
<xteejx> Night all
<xteejx> micahg: Catch ya later :)
 * ajmitch wishes LP had a few more buildds
<micahg> ajmitch: they usually do, about 10 buildds are MIA
<ajmitch> yeah I know, just a bit frustrating to have a reported 9 hour queue time when I want a lib built so that its rdepends can be rebuilt :)
<ajmitch> of course I forgot to add the bug # into the changelog, and remembered that about 10 seconds after uploading...
<micahg> oh you mean the  official buildds...
<ajmitch> yes, the 3 amd64 buildds are all stuck on the same package of course :)
<micahg> ajmitch: yeah, those take several hours :(
<kklimonda_> oh? are they building firefox? ;)
<ajmitch> openjdk
<kklimonda_> even better :)
<micahg> kklimonda_: firefox got pushed to -security today :)
<ajmitch> yay, one of them finished 1 minute ago! :)
<micahg> ajmitch: and another one takes its place :-/
<ajmitch> now *another* build of it starts
 * ajmitch should turn to drink for solace...
<psusi> bah... if you did a full debuild, is there a way to have dput only upload the source so that lp doesn't reject the whole damn thing because it also includes the binary?
<ajmitch> no, because it's referred to in the gpg-signed .changes file
<ajmitch> does debuild -S really take that long?
<psusi> heh, there we go... bzr buiddeb also takes -S ;)
<psusi> wasn't sure about that
<paultag> Hey MOTU. I'm interesting in packaging up a Ubuntu-local metapackage for Fluxbox ( and some stuff to enable people to use it as a DE ). I started some basic work on it, and it's looking pretty good so far. How hard will it be to get such a package uploaded?
<paultag> It would not be a fork or anything, just a few small metapackages to make using flux nice again :)
<paultag> If it helps, I'm upstream on Fluxbox in Debian. I can take changes for it up there, so we can keep everything nice
<micahg> paultag: take a look at some of the -desktop packages for examples
<paultag> micahg, yup. I have that working, and seeds on my people.ubuntu
<paultag> micahg, I can package it, I was just wondering about policy
<paultag> and logistics and such :)
<ScottK> paultag: Not hard at all.
<paultag> Heyya ScottK :)
<ScottK> If you upload it to Debian, it'll be automatically sync'ed into Ubuntu.  That's easiest.
<paultag> ScottK, are the *ubuntu-* packages uploaded to Debian as well?
<lifeless> not usually
<ScottK> paultag: Generally we prefer to see new packages maintained in Debian.  Is there a reason why it would have to be Ubuntu specific?
<lifeless> but not never either
<paultag> ScottK, I'm not sure. I've not looked into it. I was considering making something like fubuntu-desktop to allow people to install flux + some tools. I have not looked into how much of it is upstream, but I don't see any reason why not, except for branding. I guess branding can be dynamic from the build vendor.
<paultag> I think this is worth some more thought on my part
<ScottK> That way Debian can have the benefit too.
<ScottK> If that turns out to be problematic, it shouldn't be very difficult to get something like that into Ubuntu directly.
<paultag> That's true.
<paultag> ScottK, getting through the NEW queue takes months though :(
<paultag> Then again, I'm in no hurry
<ScottK> Not right now.
<ScottK> For a trivial package like you're talking about, it shouldn't take long.
<ScottK> Licensing is the hard part of New and for a metapackage it hardly applies.
<paultag> True.
<paultag> and I guess germinate would work fine upstream
<paultag> might have to move off my people.ubuntu and use LP or something
<paultag> OK, well thanks for the talk ScottK, lifeless, micahg
<ScottK> I don't think it matters.
<paultag> that helps a lot
<paultag> :)
<dholbach> Good morning! :)
<Rhonda> lucidfox: You'd like the keynote at the openSUSEConf here right now. It's a combined one on gnome and kde history. ;)
<lucidfox> Link?
<Rhonda> http://conference.opensuse.org/indico//contributionDisplay.py?contribId=93&confId=0
<Rhonda> Cornelius is from KDE, Vincent from GNOME
<Rhonda> Hope they'll upload the slides later.
<Rhonda> Unfortunately no recording done here. :/
<azeem_> we should offer debconf consulting[tm]
<nigelb> LOL
<Rhonda> Definitely. No proper speaker mics neither.
<Rhonda> Which limits the possibility for proper talk if you always have to hold a mic. :/
<azeem_> do visitors have to pay a conference fee?
<Rhonda> No
<azeem_> ok, fair enough
<azeem_> still though...
<simar> shadeslayer, hi
<simar> shadeslayer, there??
<gaspa> dholbach: harverst lives!!! \o/
<gaspa> :)
<dholbach> :)
<simar> persia, hey i have been able to install maverick using some workarounds.
<xteejx> Afternoon all :)
<xteejx> I'm looking at the ftbfs for stardict-tools, but can't see where to put the -lz flag
<xteejx> I've looked in Makefile.*, configure* and debian/rules
<hrw> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libgirepository1.0-dev_0.9.12-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gir-1.0/DBus-1.0.gir', which is also in package gir-repository-dev 0.6.5-6ubuntu9
<hrw> ops, wrong window
<ari-tczew> does anybody running natty desktop?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: of course
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: what graphic do you use?
<tumbleweed> intel
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I'm not sure about bump to natty. Is it enough stable to use?
<tumbleweed> seems fine to me. It hasn't got unstable yet :)
<tumbleweed> (I dual-boot to the previous release on my laptop which I use when the dev release is completely unusable, usually happens for a week or two at some point - specific hardware issues usually)
<hrw> ari-tczew: I use natty on intel/4500 laptop and on radeon/hd5xxx desktop
<ari-tczew> ok thanks
<Sarvatt> don't worry, all the fun X/driver breakage is queued up for upload in pkg-xorg git :)
<hrw> Sarvatt: so newer xserver/xdrivers soon?
<ari-tczew> on nvidia probably tseliot is working
<Sarvatt> hopefully, we had to stick to some really buggy versions in 10.10 (intel especially) because of the release date getting moved up
<hrw> I hope for radeon driver with opengl and xvideo for hd5xxx
<ari-tczew> Sarvatt: this bug should be fixed - bug 653274
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653274 in linux (Ubuntu) "Plymouth doesn't show Kubuntu or Ubuntu logo with Nvidia proprietary driver" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653274
<Sarvatt> we have the opengl side already
<Sarvatt> but we need an updated x-x-v-ati to use it
<Sarvatt> theres no released version that works with it yet though
<Sarvatt> ari-tczew: i dont see that getting fixed anytime soon without ditching plymouth
<ari-tczew> Sarvatt: This is funny, that Canonical can't workaround this problem.
<tseliot> ari-tczew: what's the problem with nvidia?
<ari-tczew> tseliot: probably bug 653274 is related to nvidia software
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653274 in linux (Ubuntu) "Plymouth doesn't show Kubuntu or Ubuntu logo with Nvidia proprietary driver" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653274
<tseliot> ari-tczew: maybe we no longer use the vga16fb module?
<ari-tczew> tseliot: is it a question for me?
<Sarvatt> oh I didn't read the bug and assumed it was just another request to make plymouth on the blob look as good as it does with KMS
<tseliot> ari-tczew: no, I guess cjwatson knows the answer though
 * ari-tczew facepalms
<cjwatson> tseliot: not really my field
<tseliot> cjwatson: I guess it was Keybuk then
<cjwatson> yes
<c_korn> this simple python script http://pastebin.com/nXWjZMFV gives this error http://pastebin.com/kWS039CP
<c_korn> is this an error in the lib or is it inside the rdf?
<kklimonda_> c_korn: looks like a proble with rdf
<kklimonda_> c_korn: similar to bug 660832
<paultag> Yeah, I can reproduce here c_korn
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 660832 in Launchpad Registry "invalid syntax on team members RDF" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660832
<c_korn> ah great, joao already filed a bug for it :)
<c_korn> then there was an issue in inner team communication :)
<ari-tczew> ttx: tomcat6 still ftbfs. IMO due to ant1.7-optional is in universe.
<ari-tczew> maybe tomcat6 should be moved to universe
<ari-tczew> debfx: nah, serna-free ftbfs! I think that you use 64bit.
<debfx> ari-tczew: yeah, I have no idea why it fails though
 * ari-tczew is thinking why are there a lot FTBFS... upstreams or toolchain is wrong?
<geser> toolchain is more strict than before and that hits now upstreams that weren't very strict on conformance
<ari-tczew> geser: what is the purpose of get more strict toolchain?
<geser> conform more to the standard
<geser> some things that get used are in the grey area, and those create the "problems"
<achiang> i don't know about the ubuntu decision, but in general, you can catch real programming errors if you make your toolchain stricter
<ari-tczew> now we will get a huge of FTBFS this cycle
<kklimonda_> ari-tczew: we would get them anyway at some point
<paultag> ari-tczew, fixing the FTBFS errors makes it better software anyway
<geser> because many didn't notice that they need a symbol from an other library (it worked till now)
<achiang> paultag: as long as the fixes get forwarded upstream. :)
<paultag> achiang, :)
<ari-tczew> paultag: okay, but admins should take into consideration one condition: human resources to fixing FTBFS
<ari-tczew> I see that you are pretty optimistic, let's fix some of them.
<paultag> ari-tczew, really it's a team effort. Ubuntu is not a fork like most people think about it. Remember, we have all of Ubuntu and Debian. Debian will have to fix these packages eventually, and since they have maintainers on the package, it's really not *that* crazy
<paultag> ari-tczew, with DDs working, and Ubuntu MOTU sending patches upstream, it's not going to be that big of a deal
<achiang> btw, how does one see the list of FTBFS?
<paultag> achiang, http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<paultag> a bit over 200 packages
<achiang> paultag: thanks
<paultag> sure
<ari-tczew> let's try to your confidence
<ari-tczew> how can I fix this FTBFS? http://paste.ubuntu.com/517580/
<geser> check in which directory that file is and if the gcc call uses the correct -I value to find it
<geser> (and if the package is in B-D at all)
<ari-tczew> geser: I changed two B-D, for newest and existing packages.
<geser> check if perhaps the include path has changed
<ari-tczew> ehhh, too much to do, too little time to do
<geser> that's normal, get used to it :)
<xteejx> Hi all, what is the linker flag for /lib/libz.so.1 is it -lz ?
<geser> yes
<xteejx> Hmm, I tried that and now I get "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz"
<geser> is zlib1g-dev installed?
<xteejx> I'm using pbuilder-dist, hmm it's not in the build-deps, that needs updated too :)
<micahg> xteejx: did you see you got a hat tip in a Debian changelog already?
<xteejx> micahg: Yeah I did :D
 * micahg needs to get better at upstreaming patches :-/
<xteejx> lol aww
<xteejx> :)
<xteejx> fgs this package is terrible, another linker needed !!!
<xteejx> /usr/lib/X11.so.6 ? -lX11 ?
<ari-tczew> does anybody have /etc/apt/sources.list for natty?
<geser> yes
<xteejx> geser: yes to me
<xteejx> >
<xteejx> ?
<geser> xteejx: yes
<xteejx> :) thanks
<micahg> geser: as long as you're here, is the DMB meeting next Monday only going to be 1hr?
<geser> xteejx: the name between "lib" and ".so.*" is what comes after "-l"
<xteejx> geser: I guessed it was that, just didn't look "right"
<geser> micahg: probably, as many other DMB members are at UDS too, I guess they try to get done in 1hr
<geser> ari-tczew: I used the one from maverick and s/maverick/natty/
<micahg> geser: ok, is there a plan for the people at UDS to meet in person for the meeting?
<xteejx> I did that in vbox, it worked perfectly fine, substituing maverick for natty
<xteejx> Had to comment out the "extra" lines
<geser> micahg: I don't know of any. Perhaps ask those who are at UDS (I'm not)
<micahg> geser: oh, sorry, I'll check with persia
<kklimonda_> micahg: what, you'd like to discuss your application over a beer? ;)
<micahg> kklimonda_: heh, at 8 in the morning?
<geser> beer for breakfast :)
<xteejx> Well its 7pm here so get sending those beers"!!!
<micahg> xteejx: I meant the DMB meeting is at 8AM at UDS :)
<xteejx> micahg: Maybe I just wanted an excuse for a beer :P hehe
 * micahg hands xteejx a beer
<kklimonda_> hmm, right - the time difference is going to be my bane on the UDS :/
<xteejx> Cheers!
<micahg> kklimonda_: I had that in brussels, but it worked in my favor since I'm a night owl :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ping
<kklimonda_> micahg: you can always discuss it over the cereal flakes ;)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: pong
<kklimonda_> micahg: so am I but the 16hrs long flight is probably going to make me into a zombie anyway ;)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: what do you think about report to lintian a new warning, where package hasn't wrapped B-D or Depends on d/control?
<kklimonda_> lintian reports bugs and violations of debian policy and it's not in policy yet, isn't it?
<ari-tczew> bdrung likes wrapped B-D so I'm asking him for this :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you unsubscribe bug 470550 from ubuntu-release ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 470550 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "uname -p and uname -i reporting `unknown'" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470550
<bdrung> ari-tczew: having a very low priority tag (e.g., pedantic) for too long (> 80 chars) B-D, Depends, ... in d/control would be nice.
<xteejx> The patch I reported upstream for wwwoffle will be included in the next release!
<xteejx> Wow, I like seeing that things flow nicely :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: congrats! keep in work :)
<xteejx> Thanks :D
<genupulas> hello i am raja sekhar
<genupulas> i have given my yahoomail id for pgp registration
<genupulas> but the ymail not having the decryption capability
<genupulas> so how can i get confirmed
<genupulas> any one help me please
<genupulas> i am trying from hours
<genupulas> any one please
<xteejx> You don't use yahoo mail to decrypt, you download the mesage and decrypt it with gnupg
<genupulas> xteejx,  you mean gnupg in terminal
<xteejx> Yup
<genupulas> gnupg <code>
<genupulas> or gnupg <enter> <code>
<xteejx> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<xteejx> ftbfs fixed bug 664662 woohoo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664662 in tea (Ubuntu) "tea FTBFS on natty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664662
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: Good that you have forwarded the fix to debian. In the future, mention clearly on the report by commenting that you also want to get the fix in Ubuntu. Right now, that's not clear since you just subscribed sponsors.
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: Also, whenever you patch a package that uses 3.0 (quilt) format, make sure that there is no debian-changes-* patch that dpkg-source is making
<bilalakhtar> Looking at your debdiff, your changes are in that patch
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I don't agree with you. I think that it's clear when he has attached debdiff for Ubuntu.
<bilalakhtar> You will need to rename the patch to something sensible
<bilalakhtar> and set the appropriate DEP-3 tags
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: That wasn't a strong point of mine, you are right
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: do you will take this one for sponsoring?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Do you want to ? I just did a quick review, you are free to take it
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I can, when he did a fix for debdiff :P
<ari-tczew> I have tomorrow very important exam
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: but do take care that he makes the changes I mentioned above
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: You have an exam tomorrow? I am busy in daily schoolwork nowadays, and so have slowed down in development
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: nationnal exam in logistics.
<bilalakhtar> oh!
<bilalakhtar> okay, /me stops the talk from going too offtopic
 * ari-tczew is repeating GS1, EAN and other terms related to bar codes. (supply chain management)
<bdrung> james_w: ping
<james_w> hi bdrung
<bdrung> james_w: i want to update bzr-builder.
<james_w> bdrung, in natty?
<bdrung> james_w: yes
<james_w> great
<bdrung> james_w: can i change the packaging (3.0 (quilt), dh 7)?
<bdrung> and move from lp:~james-w/bzr-builder/packaging to lp:ubuntu/bzr-builder?
<ajmitch> morning
<bilalakhtar> Cool! Keybok just ran M-o-M again, and now the number of merges went down from 161 to 143 ~
 * ajmitch hopes that squeeze can release before DIF 
<james_w> bdrung, please feel free to do the latter, and use dh 7, but please stick to v1 for now
<bdrung> james_w: why?
<bdrung> what speaks against 3.0 (quilt)?
<james_w> bdrung, because bzr-builder doesn't support v3, so it can't be "self-hosting"
<bdrung> ah, ok
<micahg> james_w: are the maverick branches (i.e. lp:ubuntu/maverick/foo) frozen?
<james_w> yes
<bdrung> james_w: bzr-builder lacks an "rm" command. would it possible to have a "rm" command that is mapped on "bzr rm"?
<micahg> james_w: ok, good, I had someone propose a merge and I requested it be proposed against lp:ubuntu/foo instead
<james_w> bdrung, why do you need it?
<bdrung> james_w: because the run command is not enabled on launchpad (but the rm command would be safe).
<micahg> james_w: are the -proposed branches auto created on upload, or can I push one?
<bilalakhtar> micahg: it is created when you upload to proposed
<james_w> bdrung, yeah, I mean why do you need to rm a file
<micahg> bilalakhtar: that I know, the question is what about before the first upload
<james_w> micahg, you can't currently push one, they may be working on fixing that in LP right now, I'm not sure
<geser> micahg: if it didn't change, you can't push to -proposed if it doesn't exist
<bdrung> james_w: because i want to use lp:ubuntu/<package> and remove debian/patches
<lifeless> not actively
<lifeless> you can upload to a ppa to create the sourcepackagename
<bilalakhtar> micahg: get all merges proposed to lp:ubuntu/maverick/foo , but I don't think you can create lp:ubuntu/maverick-proposed/* . Not sure, ask james_w
<bdrung> bug #617653
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617653 in bzr-builder "Please add a rm command" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617653
<lifeless> and then push to ubuntu/debian/whatever
<james_w> lifeless, it's not sourcepackagename
<lifeless> james_w: oh, ok.
<james_w> lifeless, it's official branches
<james_w> bdrung, makes sense, please file a bug
<micahg> james_w: ok, thanks, I'll just upload the package to -proposed and let the importer do its thing
<lifeless> james_w: hmm, not sure where thats at
<bdrung> james_w: bug #617653
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617653 in bzr-builder "Please add a rm command" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617653
<james_w> lifeless, I don't know if Tim was doing it as part of lp:foo creating and linking
<james_w> bdrung, excellent, thanks
<achiang> what is the process to fix a FTBFS? at this point, i've figured out the patch that needs to be written, and verified that it does build in my pbuilder. my question is: is a launchpad bug automatically created for each FTBFS that i can attach my patch to?
<achiang> if it makes a difference, the package/failure is: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fossology/1.2.0-3/+build/1999835
<micahg> achiang: no, you file the bug if you're working on it
<micahg> then subscribe ubuntu-sponsors once you have a good patch
<micahg> s/tested/
<achiang> micahg: ah, easy enough. thanks.
<achiang> micahg: should i create a debdiff style patch, with a changelog entry? or do i just create a pure code patch?
<micahg> achiang: w/changelog entry makes sponsoring easier
<achiang> micahg: ok, great, thank you
<micahg> achiang: thank you for helping :)
<achiang> micahg: yep, my goal is to become a MOTU at some point. :)
<micahg> achiang: me too :)
<ari-tczew> achiang: nice to hear that. good luck and have fun!
<achiang> ari-tczew: thanks!
<ari-tczew> achiang: well, we wait for your patches to sponsor
<ari-tczew> bdrung: some time ago we've talked about uploading package automatically through syncpackage. I requested a wish: bug 664719
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664719 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "syncpackage should upload files automatically" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664719
<ajmitch> it'd be nice to have soyuz do it, rather than having to use these hacks
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: do you mean about sync-in-launchpad? wgrant said that this is in progress
<ajmitch> yes
<ari-tczew> but probably it won't support field 'sponsored by:' :/
<micahg> ari-tczew: there could be a form for it
<ari-tczew> micahg: tell it to LP developers
<bdrung> ari-tczew: I am against uploading the .changes file directly, because I think that the package should be tested before uploaded.
<micahg> ari-tczew: when they fix the permissions and add the sync button, I'll file a bug :P
<achiang> is there a variable that controls build concurrency in pbuilder?
<ttx> ari-tczew: yep, commented on the bug
<bdrung> james_w: does bzr-builder use python-apt?
<james_w> bdrung, don't think so
<james_w> bdrung, it uses python-debian which uses python-apt
<bdrung> that was my perception too
<ari-tczew> xteejx: there is a merge pointed to you in universe - linthesia
<xteejx> Did someone say my name? I was out
<quidnunc> Is it a bug that r-cran-base requires libreadline-dev and libreadline6-dev but they conflict?
<xteejx> ari-tczew: What was wrong with bug 664662? I don't underdtand it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664662 in tea (Ubuntu) "tea FTBFS on natty" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664662
<tumbleweed> xteejx: look at the debdiff, it contains an auto-generated quilt patch. Give the quilt patch a more sensible name, dep3 tag it, and remove all the instructions that it currently has in the header
<xteejx> tumbleweed: I've no idea what that means. I'm currently quilt-ing libs.diff to change the
<xteejx> src.po file in the upstream source, I assume thats it?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: look at the debdiff - open it in an editor
<xteejx> I have, not sure what i'm looking at
<tumbleweed> xteejx: you notice that the majority of it is the description of the quilt patch.
<tumbleweed> it tells you that you should replace it
<xteejx> At the bottom? Yes I see that change is the same one I made in the upstream source to
<xteejx> fix the ftbfs
<tumbleweed> well, I should hope so, but that's not what I'm talking about.
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<xteejx> Hmm...still really confused, I can use quilt to make patches that's about it
<tumbleweed> xteejx: quilt is a system to manage patches against the upstream source
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-22
<tumbleweed> this package you are working on uses quilt. So if you touch the upstream source (i.e. outside /debian) you need to do so with a quilt patch
<xteejx> Oh hang on...I just noticed /deb/patches/deb-changes-version
<tumbleweed> this is why it generated a quilt patch for you
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Right I understand, but what I don't get is _how_ do I do that?
<tumbleweed> first it helps if you are aware that this is going to happen, so that you can create the patch with quilt rather than have it create it for you
<xteejx> tumbleweed: I think I've got it on my own, cn I pastebin you the diff?
<tumbleweed> have a look at that wiki page again now
<tumbleweed> sure
<xteejx> I redone it again from scratch and used quilt to make a new one and refresh, rebuild, redebdiff
<xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/517741/
<xteejx> It looks like a "normal" one now
<tumbleweed> that's better. Bonus points now is a DEP3 header on the patch. http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<xteejx> Bloody hell, I've had a couple of drinks I shouldn't be doing this :P
<xteejx> I'll take a look :)
<tumbleweed> Also, instead of "debian/patches:" in your changelog entry just put teh patch name, "libs.patch"
<tumbleweed> err libs.diff
<xteejx> Ok :)
<tumbleweed> yeah I've been out tonight too :P
<xteejx> hehe
<xteejx> Nah, I'm still drinking at home, so much cheaper
<xteejx> tumbleweed: That page is REALLY confusing, I can't make anything of it
<tumbleweed> it helps if you've seen an example
<xteejx> I've seen the examples at the bottom but they're not much use
<tumbleweed> Look in your previous debdiff http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57986452/debdiff
<tumbleweed> you can see it has a description, an author, and it links to the bug
<tumbleweed> the only issue is that the description is long and not very useful
<xteejx> So copy and paste desc, author, bug-ubuntu to the top of libs.diff?
<xteejx> And amend those as needed?
<tumbleweed> well, not necessarily copy-paste, but that's an example of what you want
<xteejx> But where does it go?
<tumbleweed> in the top of the patch, before the first hunk
<xteejx> So after Index: ... but before ============= ?
<xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/517749/ libs.diff
<tumbleweed> actually both index and ====== are unnecessary, they are the current header
<xteejx> So it goes right at the top?
<tumbleweed> yup
<xteejx> no # for comments or anything, just plain insert?
<xteejx> well amending things that need it obviously
<tumbleweed> correct
<xteejx> another hard way of doing something relatively simple ;)
<tumbleweed> "quilt header -e" is an easy way to edit this
<xteejx> tumbleweed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/517751/ what do we think? :)
<tumbleweed> looks great
<xteejx> time to rebuild and redebdiff :)
<xteejx> ok, bug 664662 updated :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664662 in tea (Ubuntu) "tea FTBFS on natty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664662
<xteejx> and _should_ be done correctly
<xteejx> tumbleweed: As usual, thank you for the great help :D
<xteejx> It's not that difficult really when you get into it, probably helps I learn quite quick
<tumbleweed> xteejx: no problem. BTW don't report debian bugs as FTBFSs (with RC severities) unless they ftbfs on debian
<xteejx> oh :S
<tumbleweed> As an ubuntu dev contributing upstream, you want to be helpful, not an irritation :)
<xteejx> Just report ftbfs and leave the severity?
<tumbleweed> well, in this case it's only going to be an issue when debian has binutils-gold
<maxb> Well, only report a Debian bug if there's a bug in Debian :-)
<tumbleweed> maxb: debian *is* collecting binutils-gold bugs
<xteejx> So how should we forward patches? I mean the ideal subject line?
<tumbleweed> but they aren't RC because tehy aren't failures yet
<xteejx> PKG fails to build from source in Ubuntu << ??
<tumbleweed> xteejx: see these ones: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=no-add-needed;users=peter.fritzsche@gmx.de
<xteejx> when it loads..... :P
<tumbleweed> no, the debian maintainer quite likely isn't interested in hearing that ubuntu has a problem.
<xteejx> tumbleweed: So "at the moment"
<xteejx> oops
<xteejx> So at the moment, FTBFS withbinutils-gold is a good subject line if it's a linker prob?
<xteejx> if I type it right of course ;)
<tumbleweed> sounds good, and even better, usertag the bug like the other ones
<xteejx> as in?
<tumbleweed> http://wiki.debian.org/bugs.debian.org/usertags
<tumbleweed> you can see it in the psuedo-headers of those bugs
<xteejx> ohh Tags: patch
<tumbleweed> no, Usertag
<xteejx> no-add-needed?
<tumbleweed> yeah, but it also needs the corrosponding user
<xteejx> Huh?
<tumbleweed> debian's BTS has predefined global tags (like patch) and user tags. You can make up any tag you want, and associate it with your e-mail address. In this case, binutils-gold bugs are being tagged no-add-needed, against the address peter.fritzsche@gmx.de
<xteejx> So I shouldn't use no-add-needed because he'll be pi**ed off at being emailed??
<xteejx> I don't get you
<tumbleweed> no, it doesn't have anything to do with e-mailing him
<tumbleweed> it's just a way to let everyone make up their own tags.
<xteejx> Do I *have* to use the usertags?
<tumbleweed> it is helpful to tag related bugs like that, that's how I was able to show you that list
<tumbleweed> anyway, off to bed. night.
<xteejx> lol goodnight mate, thanks again :)
<paultag> are we pulling from unstable or testing for natty?
<micahg> paultag: unstable
<paultag> micahg, awesome, thanks.
<micahg> paultag: you can even request from experimental if need be
<paultag> micahg, nah, it's OK. I just got a packaged uploaded to deb, so I was trying to think ahead for the sync
<dholbach> Good morning!
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: do you planning merge package db in universe?
<ari-tczew> It waiting so long for merge
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: yes, I do
<ari-tczew> cool
<cjwatson> and to forestall future questions, I plan to do all my merges :)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: during natty?
<cjwatson> yes.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: I suggest to comment on MoM, that you will do this merge, where are you as a last uploader
<cjwatson> no need; that is implicit.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: I just want to avoid questions like mine some minutes ago :)
<cjwatson> I'm not going to waste time adding comments to every one of my merges; sorry.  I'd rather spend time doing merges, which I am actively doing right now
<cjwatson> besides, I don't get that many questions about it
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ok, I didn't want being you an upset
<cjwatson> you didn't
<ScottK> ari-tczew: The way to avoid such questions is not to ask them.  Up until DIF, if someone is active in the project, you should assume they will do their merges.  It would, however, be valuable to seek out merges of people who have are not active in the project anymore and have sat there for a while.  Pinging those people would be useful.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: and I practice this one. when I see that latest merge is done by John Don (it's an example), then I'm owning this merge
<ari-tczew> hmmm, python3.2 is blocking builder
<ScottK> ari-tczew: John Dong?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: John Doe. my typo
<Rhonda> Who will I have to talk to about packages.ubuntu.com updates? It seems like djpig is still not responding/reachable at all unfortunately, and I'd be interested to get the service updated nevertheless. People started to address me with respect to screenshots addition, e.g.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: do you want to be a maintainer of packages.ubuntu.com? would be nice!
<ari-tczew> it has to be updated for natty
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: The commits are already done.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: and what's the next step? approve by admin?
<Rhonda> That's my question about. Frank, who seems to be the only person having access (appart from canonical sysadmin team of course) didn't respond since over a year.
<Rhonda> Alright, probably less than a year, but not much
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: so... let's ask canonical sysadmins :)
<ari-tczew> or maybe dholbach knows? ^^
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: you don't use syncpackage?
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: err I've just uploaded qtiplot (which you've just marked in progress)
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: heh, no problem ;)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: If you want to steal xine-lib, feel free.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I tried this one some time ago and it's not for me. :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I can take a look on FTBFS as we had discussion some time ago, do you remember?
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I vaguely remember.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: adding libs to LDFLAGS. if you have more, ping me
<ScottK> OK.
<eagles0513875> ScottK: do you have a min to hop into kubuntu-offtopic someone has a serious show stopper kernel issue with maverick
<eagles0513875> nm hes here :)
<eagles0513875> welcome BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> howdy folks , dpkg locks my system trying to install a kernel module/linix image that seems non-existent ...any ideas?
<BluesKaj> hi eagles0513875
<BluesKaj> does linux-image 2.6.32.24 generic actually exist ?
<eagles0513875> if i am not mistaken it exists on lucid
<eagles0513875> let me hop on my server
<eagles0513875> BluesKaj: its a lucid kernel
<eagles0513875> BluesKaj: and you basically upgraded from lucid to mav
 * eagles0513875 always runs into issues with the upgrades
<ScottK> eagles0513875: It's really a support question and not an area I'm an expert in.
<eagles0513875> ScottK: i know Riddell is probably swamped with work but is he around to help him possibly
<eagles0513875> BluesKaj: i forgot entierly there is an ubuntu-kernel channel
<BluesKaj> this was on maverick, I did the alterhnate install to / ,  due to the fact my new graphics card required it, there weren't any proper drivers available
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you check why package earcandy is not getting by MoM?
<geser> ari-tczew: it is, on https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html
<ScottK> geser: It would be useful to have a link to that page off m.u.c.  I didn't even know that existed.
<geser> ScottK: I guess the index listing on m.u.c doesn't count (the other components have a "manual" page too)
<Laney> What determines whether a merge lands on that page?
<ari-tczew> what is m.u.c?
<Laney> merges.ubuntu.com
<ari-tczew> so MoM
<geser> Laney: based on the versions on that page, my guess is those are packages which were packaged in Ubuntu first
<Laney> yes
<Laney> geser: yeah, looks that way doesn't it?
<Laney> Would have thought there'd be more though
<persia> manual merges are ones where the automerger just broke.
<persia> Usually orig conflicts, or weird version changes, etc.
<persia> (there's a correlation with things in Ubuntu first, but not a direct causation)
<cjwatson> that's not quite right
<cjwatson> manual merges are ones where there's no base version
<cjwatson> i.e. the Debian and Ubuntu packages share no common history
<cjwatson> thus is my understanding anyway
<tumbleweed> which would happen with packages that were in Ubuntu first and Ubuntu hasn't merged / synced from debian yet
<persia> Also happens for stuff that has been merged once sometimes, if the changelogs are sufficiently confusing.
<Laney> ah, it resolves using the changelog
<dholbach> ari-tczew, no, I don't know
<persia> I believe so.  I may be mistaken.
<cjwatson> ScottK: I've added links.
<ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: how it's going about gnustep-base? I see that you've already sync'd it. what about rebuilds?
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: it needs to clear binary NEW on all architectures first, then -gui and -back have to be built (and clear bin-NEW again), after that rebuilds can start
<DktrKranz> yeah, it's a bit complicated :)
<debfx> Riddell: I just stumble across bug #607094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607094 in spacenavd (Ubuntu) "Please sync spacenavd 0.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607094
<debfx> if it's ok with you, I can sync it
<persia> debfx, Better to let archive-admins do syncs.
<persia> (Yes, this would be nice to fix, but LP doesn't support it yet, and the hack requires cleanup afterwards)
<debfx> persia: why?
<persia> Something to do with how the archive is constructed on the archive master.
<persia> I'm not an archive admin, and don't understand the details, but I've been told this continuously since I first thought it would be nifty to hack Origin back in feisty.
<persia> I know there's ongoing work to make it so we can just press a button and LP does all the right stuff, but it's not ready yet.
<persia> So for now, best practice is just to file confirmed bugs and subscribe the archive-admins.
<debfx> what's the disadvantage of syncpackage?
<tumbleweed> debfx: there's a concern that it's an unecessary round-trip trhough a developer's personal machine
<persia> It messes up some indices somewhere and requires someone to sort them out.
<persia> Sorting it out isn't hard, but still.
<debfx> well either it's acceptable to use syncpackage or it should be removed from ubuntu-dev-tools
<persia> If you want all the grubby details, the folk in #launchpad might know, and a fair number of them were raised in the discussion about syncpackage by some of the archive admins who responded.
<tumbleweed> persia: that suprises me (never heard anything about this before) - but I also don't know the archive internals. archive-admins also tend to be quiet whenever anyone brings syncpackage up
<persia> Nobody wants to have the argument.  Technically, it's not that much harder for an archive admin to clean up later than to perform the syncs in the first place.
<Riddell> debfx: this is an on-going debate, there's no paticular problem with syncpackage but some people feel it might increase the chance of a problem occuring
<persia> tumbleweed, Yeah, archive admins tend to be busy and not want to get into the argument as to why it's a bad idea.
<tumbleweed> persia: fair enough. But it does seem odd that we have a tool that we 'shouldn't" use
<Riddell> debfx: I'm happy for it to be synced
<persia> We've had the tool since edgy or so.  We kept it out of ubuntu-dev-tools for the longest time, but someone stuck it in after discussion during which nobody listened to the archive-admins.
<tumbleweed> well, it is of course useful for fake syncs
<tumbleweed> I really think we should add a warning section to the manpage, listing the concerns, not FUD, then we don't have to have this discussion every other month
<persia> For fake syncs, we shouldn't be using it anyway.  Fake syncs should be Origin: Ubuntu.
<persia> Anything else falsely implies we got the package from Debian.
<tumbleweed> if it adds origin: debian when fakesyncing that would be a bug (I don't know that offhand)
<ScottK> syncpackage wasn't designed for fakesyncs
<tumbleweed> of course. Personally I used it because I wasn't compelled by the arguments against using it, ack-sync made it mostly-safe and convenient, it would save archive-admin time, and it would get the sync done now (which is an issue around freezes)
<tumbleweed> however archive-admins don't complain about not having time, and ack-sync now can ack without syncpackage-ing
<persia> And archive-admins often pay special attention to seeded syncs during freezes (unseeded syncs get delayed, but they are rarely as time-critical)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you remove nvidia-settings from MoM/main ?
<debfx> tumbleweed: what's ack-sync?
<tumbleweed> debfx: it's in ubuntu-dev-tools source package, a tool that pulls source, test-builds, and asks you if you want to ACK
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: quiet?  hmm.  I complained about it nearly every time it was brought up for quite a while.  I gave up because who wants to be the guy who just sits there complaining all the time?
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: :) Well I only arrived on the scene after it already existed and was well known
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: done
<ari-tczew> thanks
<bdrung> persia: why does syncpackage messes up some indices?
<persia> bdrung, I don't know the details.
<persia> I'd encourage you to read through cjwatson's complaints before he gave up complaining, as those are surely more accurate than any information I can provide.
<ari-tczew> who has upload access to multiverse? core-dev?
 * micahg thought MOTU did
<persia> ari-tczew, Different groups of folk.  You probably have upload rights to most of it.
<persia> micahg, Not exclusively: some of Mythbuntu is in multiverse.
<micahg> persia: right, but has that restriction of partial pocket access been implemented?
<ari-tczew> persia: ah, my bad. I saw that fabrice_sp has uploaded package @multiverse, but sponsored by dholbach. I've looked on the date and now I know, that in those days fabrice_sp wasn't yet in MOTU.
<persia> micahg, No, hence "not exclusively".
 * micahg thinks pocket is the wrong tem
<micahg> *term
<persia> "component"
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: multiverse access control is equivalent to universe, unless other package sets are involved
<micahg> thanks
<cjwatson> my complaint about syncpackage was essentially that a sync constitutes a promise that this is a verbatim copy of the package from Debian.  Given that there is no monitoring of whether that's actually the case, I think it's less risky to have the copy be done centrally rather than going through client machines.  I would love developers to be able to press the button rather than it having to go through archive admins, but I ...
<cjwatson> ... want it to be a button that creates a new publication record, rather than involving downloading/uploading the package.
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: obvious response: given that syncpackage doesn't alter the checksums in the dsc file, the upload would be rejected if the package was modified.
<persia> It's on the LP roadmap.  Mostly needs a couple jobs to run to clean up some other bugs, and then can be enabled.
<persia> tumbleweed, But we can't prove that.
<bdrung> cjwatson: agreed. once we have the LP button, syncpackage will be changed to trigger the sync through launchpadlib.
<tumbleweed> I'm not arguing that we don't want to be able to do it centrally, as soon as LP can support it.
<tumbleweed> cjwatson, bdrung: http://paste.ubuntu.com/518106/ ?
<cjwatson> I'd find that an improvement, yes
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes
<tumbleweed> persia: if users have the ability to upload to ubuntu, they can break things. Actually managing to break things with syncpackage (esp ack-sync + syncpackage) would require concerted effort
<bdrung> tumbleweed: maybe document the future plans, too
<ScottK> bdrung: Now we just need someone to write the soyuz patch.
<tumbleweed> err yes
<persia> ScottK, We have most of that.  The main blocker is some DB/librarian cleanup, which needs a job to run.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: what is the command for fakesync?
<ari-tczew> Riddell: you want to get synced knmap, but it's FTBFS
<ari-tczew> http://paste.ubuntu.com/518120/
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you also take a look on bug 636636 ? I see that you're working on archive.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 636636 in gupnp-vala (Ubuntu) "Sync gupnp-vala 0.6.12-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636636
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: done
<ari-tczew> thanks
<bdrung> ari-tczew: use syncpackage
<persia> bdrung, We just had a long discussion about that.
<persia> We very actively *don't* want to use syncpackage for fakesyncs.  We need Origin: Ubuntu on those.
<bdrung> persia: syncpackage uses debuild for building fakesync packages. so origin should be ubuntu.
<persia> OK.  I just worry about syncpackage, but if it does the right thing, it does.
<bdrung> persia: use "syncpackage -v" and it will tell you which command are used.
<persia> I get a KeyError for an environment variable I've never set (DEBEMAIL respects the "name name <email@domain>" syntax)
<bdrung> persia: log?
<persia> http://pastebin.com/5aPhzSMu
<bdrung> persia: file a bug
<persia> Do you especially want to fix it (am I putting something on your TODO list, or just filing a bug)?
<bdrung> persia: i will fix it unless someone else wants to do it
<persia> OK.  I'll file it when I'm done with the current bug then.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I do, but only when needed. why are you asking that?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: curiosity
<c_korn> hello, where can I find the script which imports the gpg keys from LP users in a specific group ?
<persia> I think there are a couple of those.  There's one in REVU, at least.
<persia> Or there used to be: it might have gone away with the new authentication model.
<c_korn> it seems there were some rdf changes and the script I use does not work any longer.
<c_korn> hm
<persia> REVU will at least have the script to get a GPG key for a single user.
<persia> You probably want to use the API to get the group membership as a safer means (ask for details in #launchpad)
<c_korn> it is for checking if a user was allowed to upload a package in the build system. we need his gpg key for checking this.
<persia> c_korn, Right.  REVU probably has the per-user bit you need (else REVU is also broken).
<persia> For per-group, I recommend using the API to get the members of the group (but ask in #launchpad for instructions)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do you know how fix this FTBFS? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58037661/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.zvbi_0.2.33-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I get the feeling there's a missing stat.h include
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: heh, but in which file? :)
<tumbleweed> the one that uses S_ISCHR
<ari-tczew> (I'm a n00b in FTBFS fixin')
<ari-tczew> how can I run pbuilder for sid on my maverick? I got the problem: http://paste.ubuntu.com/518144/
<tumbleweed> I import the key into my gpg keyring and do pbuilder create --debootstrap-opts --keyring=~/.gnupg/pubring.gpg
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: thanks, I'll try it later
<ari-tczew> wth... yesterday was 180 FTBFS in universe. now it's 61
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I think someone did a retry.  Look how many pending builds there are.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: that's right, builders are busy today
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'm not sure on Sid pbuilder.  It works here, but IIRC I have debian-keyring installed.  Maybe that's the difference.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: is it make sense, whether I'll upload some fixes for FTBFS?
<ari-tczew> it's about to add missing things to LDFLAGS
<ScottK> ari-tczew: If they are broken in Ubuntu it does.
<achiang> i picked off a few FTBFS yesterday. i wrote patches to fix them, but in one case, sent the patch upstream and in the other, submitted the patch to debian BTS. in both cases, i expect debian to take the patches rather quickly, and then ubuntu can sync from debian
<achiang> was my expectation correct? or should i prepare ubuntu debdiffs too, and attach them to the LP bugs i opened?
<geser> achiang: depends on the Debian maintainer. And the current Debian freeze may slow it down too.
<achiang> geser: for #664760, i've already been in contact with the debian maintainer, and he agreed to take the patch once it is accepted upstream. although checking qawire, i see that the package has disappeared from the list
<fabrice_sp> I have found a package for which uscan does not get the latest version, because the debian mirror of sourceforge is not updated since september the 16th. Is the update blocked because of squeeze being frozen?
<geser> it wouldn't hurt to have debdiffs ready in case it takes some time till the fix gets into Debian
<fabrice_sp> it's muse
<achiang> geser: good point, i can attach some debdiffs. i guess i was trying to avoid doing extra work in ubuntu of carrying patches for a little while, and then having to figure out that the patch should be dropped once the fix hits debian
<geser> achiang: there was apprarently some give back today (fossology waits on a new build attempt) so it doesn't get listed currently on the FTBFS page
<ScottK> achiang: If the package is currently FTBFS in Debian too, then the odds of it getting accepted quickly are good.  If it's due to toolchain changes that Debian doesn't have yet, you probably won't see it in Debian until after Squeeze releases (except maybe in Experimental)
<achiang> geser: ah, ok. "give back" means re-try build?
<tumbleweed> achiang: at the very least it helps to file a bug in launchpad so that other people know what you've done - i.e. that this is in progress upstream (you link the upstream / debian bugs to it)
<ScottK> achiang: Yes.
<achiang> tumbleweed: i did file bugs, one is listed above, the other is #664941
<tumbleweed> achiang: aah missed that, cool.
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: that would be suprising, file a bug against qa.debian.org?
<achiang> ScottK: thank you. the two packages i picked are not FTBFS in debian. based on what you said, I'll prepare ubuntu debdiffs, attach them to my bugs, and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ScottK> Great.
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, it's http://qa.debian.org/watch/sf.php/lmuse and it indicates "last database update: Sun, 19 Sep 10 06:17:35. How can I check if bug already exists?
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: http://bugs.debian.org/qa.debian.org (which lists debbug 599064)
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, got it. thanks for the link! This mean that UEHS is not up-to-date either is the project is on sourceforge
<tumbleweed> yup :/
<achiang> which debian repo do syncs typically come from? is it possible to request a sync of a package from unstable at some point?
<geser> we sync for unstable by default
<achiang> ah, great. and unstable is not frozen, so if i can get a patch to land there, then there really isn't a need to carry an ubuntu patch.
<geser> yes
<geser> we can also sync a package from experimental if needed
<achiang> nod. i don't think that will be necessary in my case though
<ScottK> achiang: Yes, but in Debian it's generally preferred to keep Unstable clear of changes not intended for the next Debian release during the freeze as that's the preferred route for updates to Testing.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: but are you sure for fixing FBTFS by flags? maybe next toolchain change and rebuild will fix these FTBFS
<ScottK> ari-tczew: No.  The linking change is by design and permanent.  It will also be in Debian for Wheezy after Squeeze is released.
<achiang> ScottK: I see, thanks. Learning various project processes is much harder than learning programming. ;)
<ScottK> achiang: Yep.
<xteejx> How come a hundred or so FTBFS have disappeared on http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/natty.html
<xteejx> Were they all done or is the site wrong?
<geser> massive give-back
<xteejx> geser: What does that mean?
<ari-tczew> geser: give-back?
<tumbleweed> given back to the buildds - i.e. retried
<xteejx> Oh, sent back to the autobuilders?
<tumbleweed> yip. A bunch will presumably fail again.
<xteejx> I was just thinking that, wouldn't they just re-fail
<ScottK> So will, some won't.  Depends on why they failed.
<xteejx> Oh well, even if a few sort themselves out, its better I suppose :)
<xteejx> brb all
<tumbleweed> there's a bug with launchpad not detecting DEPWAIT reliably, so quite a few might succeed
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you take a look on bug 664612 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664612 in nvidia-kernel-common (Ubuntu) "Remove nvidia-kernel-common from repositories" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664612
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I don't have an opinion on it.
<BlackZ> achiang: bug #664941: if you need sponsorship for the upload of that fix, the bug should not be assigned to anyone (please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664941 in reprepro (Ubuntu) "FTBFS: undefined reference to S_ISDIR, S_ISREG" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664941
<achiang> BlackZ: reading now
<achiang> BlackZ: ok, i'll go unsub myself, thanks for pointing this out to me
<achiang> BlackZ: i'm unsubscribed
<achiang> uh, un-assigned, that is
<xteejx> bug 665276, can someone check the debdiff please? I've remembered and done what people
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 665276 in webfs (Ubuntu) "webfs FTBFS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665276
<xteejx> have advised, and this one is totally on my own
<BlackZ> achiang: also, the package has to go for "natty" and not "lucid". Can you please fix that?
<xteejx> btw Good evening all :)
<BlackZ> achiang: .. and you have to set "Ubuntu Developers" as the maintainer of the package (you can run the "update-maintainer" script to do that automatically). However commenting on the bug
<achiang> BlackZ: hm, i just uploaded v2 of the debdiff which fixes the distro field in the changelog
<achiang> BlackZ: ok, i guess i should upload a v3 then? is there anything else i should do?
<BlackZ> achiang: commented on the bug
<ari-tczew> 1969-12-31 17:00:00.000000000 -0700 lol :D
<ari-tczew> achiang, BlackZ: also in d/changelog should be changed: * debian/patches/filecntl-include-stat.patch:
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: yes, usually I do that commenting on the bug with something like: "Uploaded with a minor correction to the package's changelog file."
<achiang> ugh, i kinda botched this one up, didn't i? sorry about this, i'll be more careful next time
<BlackZ> achiang: uploaded
<achiang> BlackZ: ta!
<BlackZ> achiang: however in the future you can consider to use DEP-5 headers for the patches
<paultag> DEP3 IIRC BlackZ
<micahg> BlackZ: DEP-3 is for patches, DEP-5 is for copyright
<achiang> BlackZ: sorry, i don't think i understand. DEP-5 covers copyright?
<BlackZ> oh sorry, I meant DEP-3
<paultag> :)
 * micahg hopes to proposal to give those sensible names is considered again
<BlackZ> achiang: you're right, DEP-5 is for copyright files; I meant DEP-3
<achiang> is there an easy way to generate those headers? what i uploaded was just a raw debdiff
<BlackZ> achiang: please read http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<paultag> that should really be built into Quilt after the DEP is approved
<ari-tczew> xteejx: I suggest to remove Last-Update: and replace by Forwarded:
<achiang> BlackZ: yeah, i just read that. looks like the way to generate those headers is by hand. i was asking if there's some handy tool to do that for you, but it seems like not
<micahg> achiang: DebSrc format 3 does it for you
<micahg> achiang: then you just have to clean it up
<achiang> micahg: but what if the package is in 1.0 format?
<micahg> achiang: then you have to do it manually :)
<achiang> micahg: heh, ok. thanks. :)
<micahg> achiang: it one of the reasons to move to source format 3, but that should be done in Debian for shared packages
<achiang> nod.
<micahg> and according to recent statistics, we're 1/3 of the way there
<BlackZ> achiang: it's not a big deal but I'd recommend you to use the DEP-3 tags for your future patches
<achiang> BlackZ: ok, got it
<persia> paultag, quilt header does a fair bit of it.
<paultag> persia, ahha. Just found that on the man page
<paultag> persia, on another note, I got my first new package into debian :)
<persia> Congratulations!
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you take a look whether I did correctly this one? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaz/4.0.11-1ubuntu1
<paultag> persia, :)
<ari-tczew> maybe someone else could check whether I added LDFLAGS correctly? ^^
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's usually better to ask before uploading
<persia> It's *always* better to ask before uploading.
<persia> One uploads only if one doesn't need to ask.
<micahg> persia: right, heh, sorry :)
<persia> (often because one already has)
<ari-tczew> I thought about this case some minutes after uploading.
 * micahg has tried to get out of the habit of using always, but there are cases where it is valid :)
<ari-tczew> and please stop attack me, I usually ask
<micahg> ari-tczew: not attacking you
<micahg> ari-tczew: just reminding
<ari-tczew> micahg: calm down, packages are waiting to build
<ari-tczew> I can overwrite it right now, so I'm asking
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, you can't once it's uploaded and accepted , it's in
<ari-tczew> I can't stand warnings if I know about these.
<persia> ari-tczew, Did your test builds work?
<ari-tczew> persia: yes!
<ari-tczew> and it built fine!
<ari-tczew> it's fix for FTBFS!
<ari-tczew> wrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<persia> And before you made the change it broke?
<ari-tczew> persia: I don;t understand the question.
<persia> The package FTBFS, and you changed it, and the result built fine?
<ari-tczew> not clear - packages was ftbfs - I made a patch to avoid FTBFS
<ari-tczew> persia: YES, Now builtfine
<persia> And the program runs afterwords?
<ari-tczew> IIRC yes, but I'll again install it
<persia> Well, if it was broken, and you changed it so it builds and it runs, there's a fairly high chance you did it right.
<persia> You may or may not have done it the best possible way, but you did fix it, so you shouldn't worry.
<persia> (this is the point of the test build and the test run)
<ari-tczew> persia: but I'm not sure about this one: dpkg-buildpackage: export LDFLAGS from dpkg-buildflags (origin: vendor): -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions
<ari-tczew> but these ^^ I didn't add to LDFLAGS in d/rules
<persia> Right, those come from the toolchain defaults.
<persia> If you look at the FTBFS log, you ought to see the same thing.
<ari-tczew> persia: and in buildlog of package patched by me, I didn't find -Bsymbolic-functions
<ari-tczew> persia: should do I to add -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions to LDFLAGS in d/rules?
<persia> ari-tczew, You had those options in the failure but not in the fix?
<ari-tczew> persia: yes
<ari-tczew> because I added LDFLAGS to d/rules, where is one flag to fix FTBFS
<persia> Hmm.  You might want those.
<persia> May as well try adding them, and testbuild/testrun.
<persia> Maybe someone who knows more about ld will have a good answer whilst you're testing.
<micahg> am I to assume powerpc stats are broken in the FTBFS page?
<persia> Why would you assume that?
<micahg> persia: they're all blank :)
<micahg> unless someone fixed them all
<persia> Maybe a mass-give-back?
<micahg> persia: looks like it, 759 jobs in teh queue
<persia> That would be it then :)
 * micahg should look at the obvious suspects first before asking
<xteejx> micahg: Maybe they're still in the build queue?
<micahg> xteejx: it looks like a mass give back
<xteejx> Oops, bit slow today hehe
<xteejx> What is the ldflags flag for /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so.1 ?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-23
<ari-tczew> give-back didn't build packages succefly
<persia> That's often the case of mass-give-backs.
<ari-tczew> successfully
<persia> usually *some* packages build successfully, and the rest fail (because they are failing for real reasons)
<ari-tczew> this page is nice: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=natty&list=ALL
<ari-tczew> developers/contributors can look where package couldn't be installed
<persia> Well, kinda.  There's still some gaps here ad there.
<persia> Especially for packages that have arch-specific issues.
<Madkiss> good morning.
<ari-tczew> good morning Madkiss
<Madkiss> I am a little bit puzzled about the ubuntu motu stuff ... I'm interested in helping out with Ubuntu better than I have done so before; i've been a debian developer since 2003, many of the packages I maintain in Debian are in Ubuntu, too, and maintained there with my help, although I have not done any uploads yet.
<Madkiss> I'm mostly working on Linux High Availability clustering stuff, which is partially in ubuntu universe right now, but which is supposed to make it into the ubuntu core system soon
<Madkiss> so I have no idea how to go on ... ;)
<Madkiss> Thought i'd better ask somebody more clueful on this than I am.
<ari-tczew> Madkiss: we have to do stuff like: merges/syncs, security updates, SRUs, FTBFS fixes, install issues
<persia> Madkiss, So, there's been a reorganisation of Ubuntu development some time back, and the documentation is still catching up.
<ari-tczew> Madkiss: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU#MOTU%20Processes
<persia> "MOTU" is basically the QA catch-all, because most packages don't have dedicated maintenance groups in Ubuntu.
<persia> (and we never have individual maintainers, or exclusive maintenance).
<persia> If you're interested in HA stuff, there's basically two ways that are probably easiest:
<persia> 1) work with the Ubuntu Server team (assuming they are planning to include the HA stuff that interests you in their flavour), and potentially become an Ubuntu Server developer.
<persia> 2) Work on the HA stuff that interests you directly, and eventually apply for upload rights for those packages to no longer need a sponsor (as a DD and maintainer for some of the packages, you'll mostly be expected to get sponsorship to learn processes, rather than many technical changes).
<persia> So, let's look at some concrete stuff: what do you want to do?
<Madkiss> I have never actually done an upload into some Ubuntu release myself, I have just done all the according packages for Debian and the ubuntu-packages are 98% equal to the Debian one's.
 * ari-tczew would rather ask, which area Madkiss is interested to work for?
<persia> We generally encourage changes to happen in Debian to support both distributions, unless there is some strong reason not to do so.
<persia> Do you have some pending issues with some of the Ubuntu HA packages that you want to address?  For future releases?  For stable releases?
<Madkiss> I would like to be in a position where I can directly influence the packages from a technical point of view. Right now, I do changes in the Debian packages (of drbd, pacemaker, heartbeat, cluster-glue, corosync) or have them introducted by upstream (LINBIT, which I happen to work for), but it takes weeks until these changes trickle down into Ubuntu
<Madkiss> from an HA point of view, given that current Linux-HA development is progressing quite quickly and delivers substantial improvements regularly, Ubuntu is way more suitable for HA servers than Debian Stable is, and yet, 10.04 does not have all the cool stuff it could have (and neither does 10.10), because there was some sort of release blocker which I only learned with some delay about
<persia> OK.  So I think your target should be upload access to the packages of interest to you.
<Madkiss> I fixed that release-blocker in Debian Unstable, but these packages are in NEW now, and it will take ages to get them processed
<persia> Now, you mention they are "supposed to make it into the ubuntu core system soon".  Am I correct that this reflects plans of the Ubuntu Server team?
<Madkiss> I think so. I have to admit the last time that I talked with Ubuntu people about this, they told me they would want to "get this whole stuff into the core system"
<persia> Do you happen to know with whom you talked?
<Madkiss> but it would definetely make sense to have cluster-stuff in the Server distribution, yes
<Madkiss> RoAkSoAx.
<Madkiss> and ivoks
<Madkiss> ;)
<ari-tczew> Madkiss: if you are interested in QA stuff, I'd like to encourage you to help us reducing merges (different between ubuntu and debian) and fixes FTBFS
<persia> Yeah, you probably want to talk to the Server folk.
<persia> I doubt many are on IRC much for that sort of discussion until November (lots of folks have started travel to UDS, and will be spending the week discussing natty plans).
<Madkiss> ari-tczew: I have just restructured the Debian packages of pacemaker and cluster-glue to release ubuntu-people from the burden of having an utterly big delta between ubuntu<->debian
<ari-tczew> aha, nice
<persia> I'd recommend dropping by #ubuntu-server in very early November, mentioning that you're working on HA in Debian, and want to work with HA also in Ubuntu, and help integrate it with Ubuntu Server.
<Madkiss> that sounds like a plan. will do so, then.
<persia> Those folk would be the best to sponsor your changes until you get familiar with the procedures, and to nominate you to be a Server Developer to be able to upload server stuff  if you get closely integrated with the team.
<persia> And they ought be happy to lead you through procedures, discuss differences to Debian, etc.
<ari-tczew> persia: what is HA?
<persia> ari-tczew, High Availability.
<persia> Imagine you manage a bundle of servers (even just 10).
<persia> Imagine you want your users to never experience downtime.
<persia> Imagine you want your users to never experience downtime when someone walks into the data centre and takes out three pieces of equipment with an axe.
<persia> This is possible, but it requires careful organisation of services and redundant configurations.
<persia> "High Availability" is the catch-all name for balancing, clustering, service migration, heartbeat monitoring, replication, etc. that allows this sort of thing to be done.
<Madkiss> I like that Axe metaphor.
<persia> (but Madkiss can surely tell you more than I)
<ari-tczew> IIRC ttx is also Server developer
<ari-tczew> he is very helpful sponsor
<Madkiss> i'll be happy talking to these people soon
<persia> Madkiss, comes from a customer requirement for the first DC I installed.
<Madkiss> persia: ah. guess they have a good working climate. ;)
<Madkiss> thank you for your help. need to leave now, gotta get an axe.
<Madkiss> (to test our own HA setups, obviously)
<persia> Clearly.  Just be careful to get one with a rubber handle in case you select the power conditioning system for testing.
 * Laney is US-bound
<ScottK> Madkiss: You want to find (IIRC) RoAkSoAx or ivoks and chat with them as they are the people who I think are most interested in HA.
<devildante> hello everyone :)
<devildante> is there a page explaining how to do merges and syncs?
<devildante> (wiki page)
<geser> !merges
<geser> devildante: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess hopefully help you further
<devildante> thanks geser :)
<nigelb> geser: singular, for future reference
<geser> ah, didn't want to try again (and fail)
<nigelb> heh :)
<bdrung> i have setup a poll. please vote: http://overbenny.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/poll-how-to-call-the-library/
<devildante> hmm, the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging doesn't work for me
<devildante> either they are outdated, or I'm doing something wrong
<devildante> can someone guide me?
<devildante> please :)
<ScottK> bdrung: Is there any discussion with major upstreams about adopting this?
<bdrung> ScottK: not yet. i first tried to get glib changed, but it ended with an bikeshed. some people think that this doesn't belong to glib.
<ScottK> Without some upstream plan, IMO, this is full of fail.  Doing this kind of thing at the distro level isn't going to work.
<bdrung> ScottK: current idea: create this library and change the upstream projects to optional build against the library.
<ScottK> Have you done an analysis of what is OK and what needs fixing?
<ScottK> IIRC, for example, KDE already DTRT.
<ScottK> (fsvo right)
<bdrung> DTRT?
<ScottK> do the right thing.
<ScottK> (or does)
<bdrung> whit whom should i discuss the KDE part? having one place for selecting the size would be nice.
<bdrung> ScottK: i have patched nautilus and brasero locally. diff for nautilus: http://pastebin.com/vemgPg7i
<bdrung> ScottK: i have created a list of applications that needs to be fixed.
<ScottK> For KDE, I think it's all done in kde4libs, but I don't think there's anything to change (and in fact a proposed patch to use non-revisionist units as on option was rejected)
<bdrung> ScottK: yes, kde4libs provides the functions.
<ScottK> So I think you can call it "done".
<bdrung> ScottK: what do you mean with " use non-revisionist units as on option"?
<ScottK> bdrung: I new what a kilobyte was until people started changing stuff.
<ScottK> new/knew
<bdrung> ScottK: i still not get what you wanted to say.
<bdrung> the current kde4libs allow tweaking the units by changing a value in $KDEHOME/share/config/kdeglobals
<ScottK> Interesting.  I guess the patch got in then.
<ScottK> I thought it didn't.
<bdrung> ScottK: it did one year ago.
<ScottK> I think the whole kibi/mibi thing is an awful idea.  It confuses the heck out of me.  I lived for decades knowing exactly what a kilobyte was and now I don't.
<bdrung> ScottK: the library will have an way to configure the preferred unit. you can select base2 there. base2 will avoid confusion.
<bdrung> ScottK: we have to choices: do nothing and keep the ambiguous meaning of "MB" and co. or we change the applications to avoid the ambiguity, but make some people unhappy.
<xteejx> Afternoon all
<xteejx> If something contains LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ how do I add linker flags? Can they be passed in
<xteejx> debian/rules?
<ScottK> bdrung: There was no ambiguity before.  You just had to understand context.  Pretending there is, is just giving in to hard disk manufacturer marketing.
<bdrung> ScottK: in which country do you live?
<ScottK> bdrung: US.
<ScottK> I'm also older.
<ScottK> I spent years unconfused on this topic.  Decades.
<bdrung> ScottK: that's the "US" problem - you are probably not familiar with the SI units like we Europeans.
<xteejx> Try living in the UK and using both :P
<ScottK> bdrung: No.  I'm quite familiar with them.  The problem is that we are pretending these are SI units.  They aren't.
<ScottK> (if you think they are, find me a microbyte)
<xteejx> Can someone help me with the binutils-gold ftbfs with fossology please?
<bdrung> ScottK: we use the SI prefixes for everything and not only for SI units.
<xteejx> Not quite sure where to insert stuff to make the linker link :)
<ScottK> xteejx: It's very build system dependent.  There isn't a generic answer.  When I've solved it, I generally had to grep the source to figure out where it was hiding the linking commands.
<ScottK> Sometimes (once so far) it's nicely in debian/rules.
<xteejx> ScottK: I can't see any 'obvious' answer apart from LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@, but it's in one file, not releated to a Makefile or configure file :(
<ScottK> bdrung: A kilobyte of RAM has been 1024 bytes since the dawn of the computer age.  Changing it over half a century into that age and then pretending it was wrong all along is just silly.
<bdrung> ScottK: there will be an option for you too, which makes the application behave like before.
<ScottK> xteejx: Right, so now figure out where that gets set.  If it's a CDBS application you'll need the CDBS source and grep that too.
<xteejx> The Imperial units vs SI debate has been going on for years
<ScottK> xteejx: That's an unrelated issue.
<xteejx> ScottK: I did what-patch and it said patchless
<ScottK> 1024 bytes in a kilobyte of RAM is just what is is.
<geser> I guess making it configurable is the only sane options as no choice will make both sides happy
<ScottK> xteejx: CDBS is build system, not patch system.  Look in build-depends.
<xteejx> Ahh :)
 * bdrung is going to the release party. See you later.
<ScottK> geser: Fixing it upstream for whatever version of fix would make me happiest.
<xteejx> ScottK: Nope, no cdbs deps
<ScottK> (of the potentially available options - kibibyte going away would make me happiest, but that isn't happening)
<ScottK> xteejx: depends or build depends?
<xteejx> ScottK: Both
<ScottK> OK.  Don't worry about CDBS then.
<xteejx> Hmm, I do see "CFLAGS_DB=-I`pg_config --includedir` -I$(DBPATH) -L$(DBPATH) -lfossdb" in Makefile.conf...those "-l"'s look a bit configurable...but are they linkers?
<ScottK> If you add the missing one after -lfossdb it ought to work.
<xteejx> Hmm, fingers crossed its a big build :)
<xteejx> -lrpmio for /usr/lib/librpmio.so.1 sound right?
<ScottK> Yes
<xteejx> Cool thanks Scott :)
<xteejx> If a pkg is patchless, when making a change in the source should be use one like quilt?
<geser> no
<xteejx> So just straight edit and debdiff?
<geser> yes
<xteejx> geser: Ok, thank you :)
<xteejx> Hmm...something very strange in the build for fossology
<xteejx> I make the -lrpmio fix, but it's running a python script and doing nothing
<xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/518783/
<xteejx> It's been like that for nearly 20 mins
<xteejx> 0.986837732674 has just come up...wth?? Is it trying to run whatever it is during build??
<xteejx> i.e. the package
<xteejx> Sod it, I'll try another package
<ScottK> xteejx: Is that a test suite running (running those during build is a good thing)
<Danri> Hello, I don't know if this is the correct place to ask but, do you know if it is correct to make a deb file if I do the following? First->./configure Second-> make -j 2 and Third->make deb. Thank you.
<crimsun> generally you should not pass concurrency flags to make
<crimsun> also, you should not assume there is a 'deb' Makefile target
<crimsun> so, for the general case, the latter two steps would be largely incorrect
<Danri> crimsun: I've seen different ways of compiling a source code into deb, and I think this way would be the easiest one.
<Danri> crimsun: Â¿How can I change the concurrancy_level?
<crimsun> Danri: "easiest" for whom?
<Danri> crimsun: The easisest way for me to make a .deb file.
<crimsun> Danri: I don't have enough context to make a recommendation
<crimsun> are you referring to a specific source tarball, or are you attempting to create a generalized framework for yourself?
<Danri> crimsun: Exactly, that is what I would like to have.
<crimsun> Danri: sorry, but to which choice does "Exactly" refer?
<Danri> crimsun: I am attempting to create a generalized framework.
<crimsun> Danri: I wonder if this question isn't better addressed to the UDD developers
<Danri> crimsun: Â¿Could you please tell me which channel would be the best to ask my question? Thank You.
<crimsun> Danri: I don't know offhand if there is a better one.  The process you're describing is similar to packaging recipes
<crimsun> (which I suppose is closer to #launchpad than any UDD channel per se)
<Danri> crimsun: Thank you crimsum, I'll try at #launchpad.
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: bug 584385, are you on it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 584385 in gprolog (Ubuntu) "Please sync gprolog 1.3.0-6.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584385
<coolbhavi> no ari-tczew doing some other work feel free to take it
<kklimonda_> has enyone managed to set pbuilder to use eatmydata?
<ari-tczew> debfx: ping
<c_korn> the build of tellico 2.3 fails. does someone have an idea where the problem could be? http://pastebin.com/6Tu1vmW1
<xteejx> Hi all, if a ftbfs package only needs 1 change in debian/rules to fix it, does that need upstreamed? And also, we just use that change without patches etc right?
<c_korn> xteejx: you don't patch files inside debian/ correct. of course you send the debdiff at the end. what fix is it?
<xteejx> It's a simple add: added LDFLAGS=-lX11 to debian/rules to make "dh_auto_configure --  --with-buildtype=release LDFLAGS=-lX11"
<xteejx> in override_dh_auto_configure:
<kklimonda_> xteejx: if you have to add an explicit library reference then you should upstream it (and actually find the right way to do it and not set it in d/rules)
<kklimonda_> xteejx: other distributions are going to switch to the new linker behaviour at some point and they will face the same problems.
<xteejx> That's the problem, I can't find it :S
<kklimonda_> xteejx: at least report a bug that the program should link to X11 expicitly so they can fix it.
<xteejx> I would rather fix it in the source if poss so it's easier to provide a decent debdiff, but I really can't see where it needs to be fixed
<kklimonda_> what build system does it use?
<xteejx> standard configure, make make install I think
<xteejx> not cdbs or anything
<xteejx> It's vmware-view-open-client in multiverse
<kklimonda_> xteejx: you should add it to the right Makefile.am
<kklimonda_> or maybe it's Makefile.inc in this case
<kklimonda_> can you paste a buildlog somewhere or give me a link to one?
<xteejx> Sure
<xteejx> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58067942/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.vmware-view-open-client_4.5.0-271013%2Bdfsg-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<xteejx> I don't see anything obviously configurable in Makefile.am :(
<kklimonda_> xteejx: I'd try adding a vmware_view_LDADD += -lX11 in vmware-view-open-client-4.5.0-264434+dfsg/Makefile.inc after line 201 (after if VIEW_GTK and before endif).
<kklimonda_> but I can't test it right now so that's just an educated guess
<xteejx> How do you see these things!? :)
<xteejx> PS thank you!
<kklimonda_> xteejx: btw, by changing Makefile.inc you actually make it harder for yourself in the short term. You have to make package build-depend on dh-autoreconf and call dh with --with autoreconf argument
<xteejx> it already build-deps on debhelper, is that not enough?
<kklimonda_> no, you have to regenerate the project files after you make changes in Makefile.am (or, as in this case, in Makefile.inc, which is included by Makefile.am)
<xteejx> Ahh I see
<xteejx> So it's a control and rules change?
<kklimonda_> yes
<xteejx> I think I've got it
<xteejx> Thank you :D
<kklimonda_> see for example my debdiff to bug 658069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658069 in gvfs "Empty files written over gvfs by some editors" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658069
<xteejx> Will do
<xteejx> The debdiffs do make sense to me (makes a change) heeh
<xteejx> So making it %:	dh --with autoreconf --with quilt ${@}    (adding the --with autoreconf) should be ok?
<kklimonda_> it should be dh --with quilt,autoreconf
<kklimonda_> at least that's what man says :)
<xteejx> :)
<xteejx> Hmm, I get this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/518921/
<kklimonda_> have you added dh-autoreconf to build-deps?
<xteejx> Yup
<kklimonda_> hmm
<xteejx> I'm doing debuild -S so I can build it with pbuilder
<kklimonda_> try adding include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/autoreconf.mk to the top of d/rules
<xteejx> before #!/usr/bin/make -f ?
<kklimonda_> no, wait - it doesn't make sense
<xteejx> It doesn't use cdbs
<kklimonda_> yeah
<kklimonda_> it works fine here
<xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/518923/ that's the rules file
<kklimonda_> do you have dh-autoreconf installed? debuild should complain if you don't but that's the only reason I can think of
<xteejx> Ohhh, I have to have it installed locally?
<kklimonda_> yes
<xteejx> oops :P
<xteejx> Yep, that's worked ;)
<kklimonda_> when you create a source package the clean target is invoked so you need all packages that are required for it to complete
<xteejx> Ohhhh, I didn't know about that
<xteejx> Time to test the build, can quilt it afterwards :)
<ivoks> persia: ivoks is server folks :p
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> Madkiss: well, actually, cluster stack in ubuntu has some features upstream is still merging ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-24
<persia> ivoks, Without a doubt, indeed.
 * Laney is in MCO
<stgraber> Laney: waiting for the cab ?
<Laney> shuttle bus
<Laney> anyone around?
<stgraber> a few arriving at the hotel already
<stgraber> *arrived
<Laney> cool
<Laney> am rather wiped though: It's 1am for me and I've been travelling since 8am
<stgraber> heh
<stgraber> I arrived here on Thursday, flying from Montreal, so same timezone and only a 3 hours direct flight. The weather is quite different tough :)
<Laney> I look forward to enjoying it when I do some exploring tomorrow :)
<RoAkSoAx> stgraber: what's the temperature?
<ScottK> "warm"
<ScottK> Not Peru Amazon basin warm, but warm enough.
<stgraber> RoAkSoAx: a bit under 25C which is a good 20C more than my usual end-of-October weather ;)
<RoAkSoAx> stgraber: its cold for me :) I'm 27 right now
<RoAkSoAx> :)
<stgraber> RoAkSoAx: but it's not raining here ;)
<RoAkSoAx> stgraber: i really hope it stays like that the whole week
<RoAkSoAx> it's a PITA when it rains
<persia> Whenever I've been in Florida, it has rained every day, at 14 local time, for 20-45 minutes, depending on the number of clouds.
<kklimonda_> :)
<stgraber> persia: I was out at that time today, it didn't ;) must only happen when you are around
<lfaraone> Package python-keyczar is in Squeeze, but FTBFS on Maverick and Natty. The tests don't seem to be run, because when built for sid / squeeze a "build/lib" directory AND a "build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6" directory is created, but in natty only "build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6" is created. (the tests point to "build/lib")
<lfaraone> Should the tests portion of the build process be amended, or is there something odd with Ubuntu's distutils? Full logs from all three builds are at http://pastebin.com/TCdJGi5Z
<ScottK> lfaraone: Does it FTBFS even with python2.7 supported?
<ScottK> When I've seen such things before it was because of only having a single version supported.
<ScottK> In Debian the tests would run out of sequence, but only not fail because python2.5 had created the things that the python2.6 tests needed to run.
<ScottK> It's likely something to do with build sequence.
<ScottK> Ubuntu's distutils is no odder than Debian's.
<lfaraone> ScottK: pyversions is "2.4-"
<ScottK> Right, but in Ubuntu the default python is a lower version that the alternate and in debian it's the reverse.
<ScottK> So I suspect the test suite is run in a different place in the build.
<lfaraone> ScottK: the test suite is run in a overridden debhelper rule.
<lfaraone> ScottK: 2.4-
<lfaraone> ~
<lfaraone> ScottK: er, http://pastebin.com/6M7J5fCi
<lfaraone> ScottK: in the Ubuntu builds, build/lib doesn't exist.
<ScottK> I also have a vague recollection of distutils defaults changing in 2.6
<ScottK> Since Debian runs it both for 2.5 and 2.6 is still exists.
<ScottK> Since Ubuntu runs it for 2.6 and 2.7 you only get the new location.
<lfaraone> ScottK: ugh, that'd make the rules file complicated.
<crimsun> complicated is probably manageable.  At least you don't munge configuration files in debian/rules.
<lfaraone> ScottK: so if version to test is <2.6, use build/lib, otherwise use the newfangled bin/lib.$OS-$ARCH-$PYVERSION mechanism, I guess.
<lfaraone> crimsun: er?
<ScottK> lfaraone: Something like that.
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay. so now the tests run in both Debian and Ubuntu. They fail in Ubuntu, of course, because our version of pycrypto is too old. Pycrypto's in Main, I'm somewhat frightened to touch it.
<ScottK> There's a merge pending for that, IIRC
<lfaraone> ScottK: ah, there is, bug #662883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662883 in python-crypto (Ubuntu) "Merge python-crypto 2.1.0-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662883
<ari-tczew> how I should set status for bzr merge review for non showing up on sponsors overview? e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/~funkyhat/ubuntu/maverick/gnome-system-tools/fix-630615/+merge/34632
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: rejected. When that isn't an option, you can use work-in-progress
<ari-tczew> can we get mass-auto-sync of new packages from Debian?
<ari-tczew> siretart: did you test build before uploading xine-lib?
<geser> ari-tczew: you need to bribe archive admins for that as they need to review them before they enter
<geser> if you don't want to wait till it happens and need a new package now, you can requestsync it
<ari-tczew> geser: aha, even if I have chmod +x universe/multiverse, do I need use requestsync for new package?
<geser> you can syncpackage it too (with the same reservations about usage of syncpackage)
<tumbleweed> but new packages need archive-admin review, no matter how they arrive, so there's no good reason not to requestsync
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: do you mean rather 'no good reason against requestsync' ?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yes, 'against using requestsync'
<ScottK> tumbleweed: They will get sync'ed eventually without someone having to waste time on a bug, so unless it's really important, using requestsync at this stage wastes people's time.
<ScottK> I think that's a good reason not to.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: so, what's the conclusion? which way is good to quickly get new packages from unstable?
 * micahg uses a PPA if something is needed quickly
<ari-tczew> micahg: for official repos....
 * ari-tczew facepalms
<micahg> ari-tczew: it all depends on why you need the package quickly, for me it's personal use generally, so PPA or pbuilder works
<ari-tczew> micahg: I don't play with PPA. In some cases, packages are FTBFS or not installable due to non existing packages. Then I'd like to sync it.
<micahg> ari-tczew: ah, this early, if it's only blocking a few non-critical packages, I'd suggest watching the natty-changes list for the package and then give back the FTBFS packages when it's sync'd
<micahg> ari-tczew: also, I think there might be a bug in soyuz since DEP_WAIT packages should fail differently than other FTBFS
<xteejx> Hi all
<xteejx> I'm trying to fix the ftbfs for alpine, not sure where to add -lkrb5
<xteejx> It uses cdbs
<ari-tczew> xteejx: if it add fixes FTBFS, what's the problem?
<xteejx> huh?
<xteejx> I'm trying to fix the ftbfs by adding -lkrb5, but I don't know where to add it
<coolbhavi> xteejx, either in rules file or configure.ac or makefile.am depending on situation
<coolbhavi> :)
<xteejx> I'll have a look at those, hopefully find something :) Thank you
<coolbhavi> :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: debian/rules, add it to LDLFAGS
<ari-tczew> LDFLAGS*
<xteejx> I tried that, it wouldn't work
<xteejx> I thought the preferred way was to change the source and upstream it?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: the preferred way is the simplest way. But yes, please upstream a patch if possible.
<xteejx> So if I _can_ do it with d/rules, I can but tell debian?
<micahg> tumbleweed: if you have a chance today, could you please comment on my MOTU application since you sponsored most of my uploads?
<tumbleweed> micahg: yes, on my todo list for today
<micahg> tumbleweed: awesome, thank you
<tumbleweed> xteejx: sure
<xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/519276/ is the d/rules file, I tried...
<xteejx> LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,-lkrb5,defs,--as-needed" --with-krb5  << but it wouldn#'t work
<xteejx> i.e. adding -lkrb5
<ari-tczew> xteejx: buildlog?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: that's adding -lkrb5 to the -Wl list (ld options), which probably isn't what you want
<xteejx> Is that th first bit it does that I s
<xteejx> Hmm
<xteejx> Oops
<xteejx> I don't see this one being simple :(
<xteejx> *simple-ish
<xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/519278/ line 30, I could add -lkrb5 at the end right, since that's where make gets called??
<siretart> ari-tczew: I did, but not in a minimal chroot, I obviously had some additional packages in my vm
<ari-tczew> siretart: Odd. Suggest use pbuilder-dist.
<ari-tczew> siretart: do you will fix this FTBFS?
<siretart> I can look at it later tonight or tomorrow. I'll first try to not install the offending pluing and see if gxine/xine-ui are still usable
<lfaraone> If I just need to do a no-change-rebuild to a package with "ubuntu1" in the version part, should I make it "ubuntu1build1" or "ubuntu2"?
<tumbleweed> I'd say ubuntu2
<lfaraone> Okay. If a package builds binary Python modules, and it was last built in Maverick, it'll need a rebuild for natty to get the 2.7 modules built, right?
<tumbleweed> yes, but be aware that python-support doesn't work in natty atm
<tumbleweed> (it doesn't have 2.7 added, and it needs it)
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: pycentral?
<tumbleweed> should be fine
<tumbleweed> AFIAIK: the differentiation for build1 and ubuntu1 is for the purposes of auto-syncing, so once we have a delta, we don't need to be clear that it's only a rebuild in the version number
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: hmm. would you mind doing a no-change rebuild of python-crypto? I just realized it's in main, so I can't upload it. (should I put up a bzr branch, debdiff? I thought it might be too trivial)
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: I'm not a core dev :)
<geser> python-crypto? doesn't it have a pending merge bug?
<tumbleweed> yeah, my merge bug
<lfaraone> geser: yes.
<lfaraone> geser: so, alternatively, we can merge it.
<lfaraone> from my reading of bug #662883 further discussion was in order.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662883 in python-crypto (Ubuntu) "Merge python-crypto 2.1.0-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662883
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: we moved the discussion to another bug, it just needs a core-dev to sponsor th emerge
<lfaraone> ah, okay then :)
<tumbleweed> unfortunatly the merge brought up policy issues...
<lfaraone> mk. well, python-crypto is blocking python-keyczar which is blocking a new unnamed package I'm working on. So I want to see what I can do to get this fixed.
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: what!? you're not a core-dev yet!? :p
 * lfaraone was suprised. 
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: lol
<AlanBell> I am trying to set up pbuilder to test a packaging recipe, it is failing but I don't really understand why. The end of the output from sudo pbuilder build is http://paste.ubuntu.com/519378/
<AlanBell> I have been following the guide here https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/GettingStarted and my recipe is at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+recipe/daily-dash-of-dasher
<directhex> does it have a configure? e.g. do you need to run autogen.sh?
<AlanBell> it has a configure
<AlanBell> no, I lied
<AlanBell> it has a configure.ac and autogen.sh
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/master/files
<directhex> AlanBell: then you need to run autogen.sh, not configure. autogen will make the configure exist
<AlanBell> hmm, ok, so the packaging is wrong for that source then?
<AlanBell> how did it successfully build the other day on Lucid?
<directhex> AlanBell: are you doing daily builds?
<AlanBell> trying to
<Laney> i don't understand what that recipe says
<directhex> and a tarball was fine?
<Laney> why do you get an error relating to cdbs?
<Laney> that sounds like a missing build depend
<Laney> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper (>= 5.0.0) cdbs gnome-pkg-tools (>= 0.6) intltool (>= 0.40.1) libexpat1-dev libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.16.0) libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.12.0) libx11-dev libxtst-dev libgnomeui-dev libgnome-speech-dev libbonobo2-dev liborbit2-dev libatspi-dev libatk1.0-dev libgconf2-dev gnome-doc-utils (>= 0.9.0) scrollkeeper
 * Laney is rather confused
 * AlanBell is very confused
<Laney> might be a bug, try #launchpad
<Laney> never done any recipe stuff, sorry
<Laney> but it sounds like a problem with that system rather than a packaging issue
<AlanBell> oh, interesting, thanks
<AlanBell> I literally took the /debian directory from the package in Maverick and put that in bzr and the recipe takes the gnome git tree and adds the packaging and builds it
<Laney> why doesn't it install the build deps?
<AlanBell> well, not sure that it is recipes that is wrong
<Laney> it at least gets them from somewhere
<AlanBell> maybe it has moved to automake since the version in maverick
<AlanBell> ah, looks like it has
<tumbleweed> it's also normal for packages to have configure in the release tarballs but not in the VCS
<tumbleweed> so your daily build rules might need to be different
<AlanBell> hmm, ok
<AlanBell> a few extra wrinkles in the recipe then
<AlanBell> so does that go in the recipe or the packaging?
<directhex> tumbleweed: that was my point, but i think AlanBell didn't notice it
<directhex> 21:24 <directhex> AlanBell: are you doing daily builds?
<directhex> 21:24 <directhex> and a tarball was fine?
<tumbleweed> directhex: yes, that's why I broughte it up again :)
<AlanBell> well it wasn't a tarball that was fine it was a daily build that was fine https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+recipe/daily-dash-of-dasher/+build/5289
<AlanBell> I haven't tried a tarball
<AlanBell> so it seems from here https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/GettingStarted#Packaging that it needs to run autoreconf -i somewhere. In the receipe? somewhere in the debian stuff?
<tumbleweed> in debian/rules before configure is called (sorry I don't know enough CDBS to tell you how to do that)
<directhex> yeah, i don't really support cdbs
<AlanBell> gah, can't even see where configure is being called http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~alanbell/dasher/debian/annotate/head:/rules
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: welcome to cdbs :)
<tumbleweed> aah, it's in the documentation, that's rare: "To add pre-configure actions" - http://build-common.alioth.debian.org/cdbs-doc.html
<AlanBell> should it include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk
<tumbleweed> I think gnome implicitly includes that
<AlanBell> ok, so at the end of the rules I add
<AlanBell> makebuilddir/dasher:: autoreconf -i
<AlanBell> or should it be autogen.sh?
<tumbleweed> probably autogen.sh (if there is one) because that's what upstream would run before producing a tarball
<tumbleweed> you will probably need some extra build-deps
 * AlanBell is still befuddled
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/519417/ <- failing locally in pbuilder
<AlanBell> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+recipe/daily-dash-of-dasher but in launchpad it builds on Lucid, but fails on Maverick
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: it's still building on lucid: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+archive/ppa/+build/2016909 - only the source package build worked (so far)
<AlanBell> oh ok
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: does the "gnome-common" package contain what you need? (I'm shooting in the dark here)
<AlanBell> no idea
<Laney> have a look at what test produces that error message
<AlanBell> which error message?
<AlanBell> ok, so one thing it says in the pbuilder output is "You need to install gnome-common from the GNOME CVS"
<AlanBell> so I could add that as a build dependency I guess
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: that comes from the autogen.sh, read that and find out how to get what it needs (gnome-autogen.sh)
<AlanBell> really not sure why this isn't all just as easy as it sounds in the instructions!
<tumbleweed> the instructions do at least mention this
<tumbleweed> (well the fact that autotools packages don't tend to include generated code in $VCS)
<AlanBell> "If your software for example is in Ubuntu or Debian, you are sorted out"
<AlanBell> not quite the case!
<tumbleweed> you won't have to re-invent the wheel though, just a couple of small changes :)
<Laney> can't the recipe call autogen?
<AlanBell> that would seem to me to be the right place to do it
<tumbleweed> Laney: he's doing that, he just needs a build-dep on gnome-common (I think)
<AlanBell> nope, not in the recipe
<tumbleweed> oh, the recipe
<Laney> i mean modifying the recipe instead of rules
<tumbleweed> it looks like gnome-common isn't one of the standard recipe build-deps (recipes don't have user-specifyable build-deps)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/519426/ new set of errors to ponder
<AlanBell> it wants a bunch of .m4 files moved about
<AlanBell> and on launchpad totally different looking problem http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58157176/buildlog.txt.gz with build dependencies not satisfied
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> can anybody please send me the links for how to package python programs properly through distutils?
<lfaraone> ScottK: so I proposed a change to the way the tests are run in python-keyczar, and the maintainer feels that it's not warranted. is there a good reason why http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=601259#33 is a bad idea? (I feel that it is, but can't put it into words exactly)
<ubottu> Debian bug 601259 in python-keyczar "FTBFS if only built with Python >=2.6" [Important,Open]
<lfaraone> ScottK: I mean, it's conceivable that at some point in the future the python module might put different files into different lib dirs, so you want to run the tests against that specific lib directory, right?
<lfaraone> .
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-17
<ashams> Hello everybody,
<ashams> Any one knows how to get some code from git repo, then send it to bzr branch
<RAOF> ashams: bzr branch git://wherever.the.git/is ; bzr push lp:wherever/you/want ?
<ashams> RAOF: that easy?, thank you :)
<wgrant> ashams: What exactly do you want to achieve here?
<RAOF> You'll need bzr-git installed for that to work, but that's a quick apt-get away if you don't already have it.
<ashams> I want to help with X org team
<ashams> there's a lot of things to get from freedesktop
<ashams> repos
<ashams> to lp
<RAOF> Ah.  Most of those should already be mirrored.
<wgrant> But LP can do that sort of thing automatically.
<RAOF> And we don't generally use Launchpad for hosting the X stuff; we use git.debian.org :)
<ashams> wow, I've missed a lot :(
<ashams> great, so no need for this now
<ashams> Greatings :)
<ashams> wgrant, RAOF, Thank you
<dholbach> good morning
<pmjdebruijn> mornin
<micahg> bdrung: ping
 * micahg fishes for an awake DMB member other than himself...
<micahg> bdrung: unping
<gaspa> hi, anyone knows if we can sync from unstable from launchpad? (I mean, here:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+localpackagediffs)
<wgrant> gaspa: Not at the moment, unfortunately. The multi-parent support isn't quite finished enough yet.
<gaspa> wgrant: k, thanks :)
<Laney> use syncpackage for that
<tumbleweed> gaspa: the LP web interface doesn't check things like sync blacklists or for ubuntu deltas that may be overwritten, so one should always use syncpackage
<gaspa> uh, pity, I found it very attractive :D
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/137307/ â here's my current lp-udd script, which ~works. I get EPIPE at line 136 though with py2.6 but not py2.7â¦ why? :(
<tumbleweed> Laney: maybe because you are trying to write to a /dev/null that was opened for reading?
<Rhonda> A new, easier, procedure involving the Backports Tester Team PPA is in the works. Stay tuned for info.
<Rhonda> That's from the UbuntuBackports wiki page - anything done along that lines already?
<Rhonda> And when I do a test build, should I mark the backport bug as confirmed already myself, or is that only up to someone from the backports team?
<Rhonda> What's the proper versioning for a backport again? :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: backportpackage takes care of the versioning. AFAIK there is a PPA, andI can't remember the procedures.... /me waits for a backporter Laney? broder?
<Rhonda> for i in lucid natty maverick; do sudo nice ionice -c3 cowbuilder --update --basepath /var/cache/pbuilder/cow/$i; sudo nice ionice -c3 cowbuilder --build --basepath /var/cache/pbuilder/cow/$i --pkgname-logfile tmux_1.5-1~$i~ppa1.dsc; dcmd mv /var/cache/pbuilder/result/tmux_1.5-1~$i~ppa1_i386.* .; done
 * Rhonda hides for doing long commandline foo. :)
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: I think only the backporters are allowed to upload to the backports PPA, it's only described under Source Change Backports anyway.
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: well yes, you need to be in the team to upload to the PPA
<Laney> Rhonda: the packages need source changes?
<Laney> append ~release1
<Laney> tumbleweed: no, it even happens if I don't redirect stderr
<Rhonda> Laney: Nope, they don't.
<Rhonda> I appended ~natty1~ppa1 for the time being.
<Rhonda> â¦ see my "oneliner" ;)
<Laney> ok, well someone (can be the requester) needs to confirm it builds/installs/runs as well as any rdeps
<Laney> of which there don't appear to be any
<Rhonda> doh, error in there, not ~$i~ppa1 but ~${i}1~ppa1  :)
<soren> Laney: http://bugs.python.org/issue10963 ?
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> is there a workaround for that?
<tumbleweed> Laney: looks like catching the OSError would be a workaround
<Laney> yeah I tried that, but parsed_changelog is unset
<Laney> is there some fancy streaming to incrementally set it?
 * Laney flails around
<tumbleweed> oh, it wasn't that it failed, just *really* short lived
<tumbleweed> run command; cat? :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed / Laney - Either of you got a chance to propose a session about challenges?
<nigelb> I won't be there or I'd have proposed one
<soren> Laney: Yeah. Use Python 2.7.
<tumbleweed> nigelb: challenges?
<Laney> soren: I don't admin the box it will run on
<nigelb> tumbleweed: The dev challenges which we tried to do this cycle but failed
<Laney> nigelb: not if it's this week
<tumbleweed> the box it will run on presumably runs squeeze
<tumbleweed> I'm assuming he's talking about UDS
<Laney> oh
<nigelb> Yeah, I'm talking about UDS :)
<Laney> not the open week?
<nigelb> No :P
<Laney> dunno, I can be there
<nigelb> (sorry, I should've been clearer)
<Laney> we should have one about recruitment
 * tumbleweed can too, but I can't really drive any challanges next cycle. I'm spread too thin as it is
<Laney> quite
<nigelb> so we need to do a session about recruiting to recruit people to do recuriting?
<nigelb> So meta.
<Laney> like how do we make motu less dead
<Laney> challenges are well and good but there needs to be people to do them
<tumbleweed> we definitly need a session on that
<tumbleweed> but I don't know what we'll get out of it...
<Laney> :(
<nigelb> we need more new blood to handle it.
<nigelb> I'm spread thin as well.
<tumbleweed> the QA session at debconf was also pretty sad, lots of "so this 1 persion is doing foo, who can help him/her", and nobody responds. Repeat 10 times
<nigelb> :(
<nigelb> Are we losing too many people to burn out?
<tumbleweed> I don't know. This is partly why I did http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/ this weekend. Which showed more activity in universe than I expected
<nigelb> Neat.
<Laney> what are the spikes?
<nigelb> probably pre-freeze ;)
<nigelb> or post freezes
<tumbleweed> the y axis is uploads per week
<Laney> transition uploads?
<nigelb> tumbleweed: minus syncs?
<tumbleweed> it should exclude syncs. Yes probably transitions
<Laney> could be perl at the start of O
<nigelb> There was a perl thing, a python thing, and an ftbfs thing.
<nigelb> I wonder if the little activities that were planned had a good effect.
<tumbleweed> if anyone knows a good way to exclude canonical, that would be interesting
<tumbleweed> excluding cjwatson and doko would get us 50% there, though :P
<nigelb> lol
<Laney> is there an lp team?
<nigelb> No
<nigelb> you'd have to manually pick people out.
<cjwatson> there is a ~canonical LP team, but it's private
<cjwatson> (which doesn't help you)
<nigelb> well, so we can get a canonical person to run the script :D
<Laney> well, it's questionable how much value that would have anyway
<tumbleweed> Laney: I'm just trying to see how dead MOTU actually is
<Laney> just looking at the list would probably be ok
<nigelb> ha, I just realized I did have 3 uploads to Oneiric.
<mr_pouit> (you should probably exclude universe seeded packages if you want to know how dead motu is)
<bdrung> micahg: pong; unpong ;)
<tumbleweed> Laney: next job: import packagesets into udd:)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> should be easy
 * tumbleweed doesn't even know how to examine packagesets (short of reading edit_acl.py)
<Laney> stgraber wrote a script to list them all recently
<tumbleweed> ah, that too
<Laney> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+junk/packageset-report/view/head:/make_report.py
<Rhonda> Laney, got lucid and natty test of tmux up and running, maverick still compiling, but I don't expect any issues. Set them both to confirmed already. If you are familiar with tmux, would be great if you could check: bug #876381 (natty) bug #876382 (maverick) bug #876383 (lucid)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876381 in natty-backports "please backport tmux" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876381
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876382 in maverick-backports "please backport tmux" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876383 in lucid-backports "please backport tmux" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876383
<Laney> Rhonda: nice, that's all the confirmation i need
<tumbleweed> Laney: do we need something in u-d-t to query packagesets? I found myself running edit_acl a lot during final freeze, to verify that I could sync something
<Laney> but we need to backport them in order, so i'll approve natty and then the others when maverick turns out to work
<Laney> tumbleweed: maybe, don't know how often listing them is needed per se, rather than "can I upload x?"
<Laney> release team requirements are a bit specialised
<tumbleweed> maybe make syncpackage list the packagesets as well as the changelog?
<Laney> "is this seeded?" is the more important question?
<tumbleweed> yeah. But that's harder to determine...
<Laney> mmm
<tumbleweed> the sponsors page also equates packagesets with seeds
<cjwatson> "can I upload this?" is a sensible question something in u-d-t should be able to answer
<Laney> pretty sure it can
<cjwatson> possibly followed by "who can upload this?"
<tumbleweed> in freezes, there's also "I can upload this, but is it safe?"
<cjwatson> true
<Laney> I suppose listing (component, sets, seeded?) would be nice
 * tumbleweed files a wishlist bug before he forgets
<Laney> can you query LP to see if the archive is frozen?
<tumbleweed> looks like distro_series.status can tell us that
<Laney> could use that to enable some extra fear
<Laney> like a small electric shock
<tumbleweed> lol
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should we wait six days for the distro-info 0.3 migration to testing?
 * cjwatson pro-forma objects again to exposing the "seeded" concept anywhere that humans might be expected to understand it
<Laney> but we already do expect people to understand it for freezes?
<Laney> or do you think /that/ is a mistake?
<cjwatson> yes, I do
<cjwatson> it's a hopelessly ambiguous term
<cjwatson> (a) actually listed in seed files (b) contained in the dependency-expansion of seeds (c) on some CD images (d) in some package sets ...
<cjwatson> we should say whatever we actually mean
<Laney> yes, I agree it needs defining. writing this code could actually prompt that...
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: the most useful thing for freezes is "on some CD images", is there any reasonable way to query that?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, I'm thinking we do a minimal SRU now, and copy-it-up. Then do the sync-from-testing-for-LTSs change when distro-info is available
<bdrung> tumbleweed: copy-it-up?
<tumbleweed> get the SRU copied from oneiric-updates to precise
<Laney> proposed
<tumbleweed> yeah, that
<Laney> :-)
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: in practice it's probably best to grep the .list/.manifest files
<cjwatson> which is unfortunately not especially reasonable, but ...
<cjwatson> precise already has a newer distro-info than oneiric
<tumbleweed> that sounds out of the question for something we do regularly, but the way to go for a can-i-upload-this-during-freeze tool
<cjwatson> including the packaging reorganisation
<cjwatson> I doubt that a copy-up from oneiric-updates would work
<tumbleweed> ah, copy-up of u-d-t, not distro-info. The change I want from there for the long term solution is only in git
<cjwatson> ah, ok
<cjwatson> sorry
<tumbleweed> np, thanks for checking :)
<jtaylor> this as-needed change is really screwing users ._.
<jtaylor> all their crappy apps don't compile anymore ^^
 * tumbleweed sees that as a good thing :P
<jtaylor> almost a dozen threads in the ubuntu forums already and its not even a week released
<gaspa> anyone can drive me a bit on a backport? (seems strange but I never did one)
<gaspa> I'm after #858361, it is a no-source-change. may I upload by myself or should I subscribe some -backporter?
<jtaylor> well gcc is a bit unfriendly in that respect, its counterintiutive to ahve stuff depend on ordering on command line
<jtaylor> I don't really get why gcc can't do reordering itself by default
<tumbleweed> gaspa: file a bug against $release-backports. Build it with backportpackge yourself, and test it. Report on the results in the bug
<tumbleweed> then poke backporters here
<Laney> and all rdepends
<Laney> and no need to poke, i'm keeping up with it
<Laney> (so far)
 * tumbleweed is impressed :P
<gaspa> Laney, tumbleweed: so we should not upload by ourselves, I guess. right?
<Laney> no
<gaspa> uh, it's already in.
<Laney> that's happy
<gaspa> ok, so it's all done.
 * gaspa bows
<geser> jtaylor: the problem is that gcc in the past the ordering could be ignored (by developers) as all libs got linked in (even the unused by the application) so all the symbols from the libs were available
<jtaylor> yes I understand why as-needed is good
<jtaylor> its just not really apparent why gcc can't just scan all files for needed symbols and then for libraries providing them, no matter what order they are
<jtaylor> kind of what --start-group --end-group does
<jtaylor> is performance really an issue nowadays?
<geser> I guess this question is better asked the gcc/ld gurus
<Laney> gaspa: you should use the new syncpackage (using LP API) for syncs
<jtaylor> are autosyncs already running?
<Laney> yep
<jtaylor> nice
<jtaylor> time to sync all as-needed fixes that are in debian now, too bad I did not keep proper track of them ._.
<Laney> usertagged though?
<jtaylor> yes
<Laney> doable then
<geser> jtaylor: the next time you will :)
<jtaylor> yes but it would ahve been easier if I noted for each branch I made when it was fixed in debian :/
<jtaylor> is the branch status selector in the personal code section on lp broken?
<tumbleweed> "personal code section" ?
 * tumbleweed made a rough first pass at affiliation, for everyone doing > 100 uploads in 'select count(*) as count, signed_by from ubuntu_upload_history group by signed_by order by count;' http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
<tumbleweed> of  course, canonical hires community developers, which skews the numbers...
<geser> the black lines are release dates and the red ones FF?
<gaspa> Laney: ack. next time :P
<tumbleweed> gaspa: yeah
<tumbleweed> err geser
<tumbleweed> err, that'll also be skewed by patch pilots
<tumbleweed> I was looking at signed by, not changed by
<geser> hmm, was oneiric so good that it didn't need many uploads since a couple of weeks before FF?
<tumbleweed> oneiric was really quiet near the end
<geser> in the previous release the amount of uploads was pretty constant even after FF
 * tumbleweed probably granted less than 10 FFes
<Laney> it'd be interesting to see the distribution of uploads
<Laney> on an individual level
<tumbleweed> run the query I just pasted
<Laney> in a nice graph :P
 * micahg didn't ask for as many this cycle :)
 * Laney ties a bow around micahg
 * micahg didn't sign up for the dog and pony show...
<jtaylor> tumbleweed> "personal code section" ?    <  the code tab in your profile
 * micahg hopes to do a lot of uploads at the end of precise to clean up stuff (had no time for oneiric)
<jtaylor> I can't see any but those with active status :/
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: aah, does branch status make sense for personal UDD branches?
<jtaylor> yes merged and active
<jtaylor> I set them all to merged when I'm done so they don't clutter the list
 * Laney is in the list twice
<Laney> (using changed_by)
<jtaylor> with the side effect that I know can't reach any of them ._.
<jtaylor> worked yesterday
<jtaylor> should probably file a bug
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: oh, I thought you were talking about the thing in the bzr client that telss you if a UDD branch is up to date
<tumbleweed> Laney: you can get around e-mail address variance with changed_by_name
<Laney> yep
<Laney> haskell transitions: good for karma
<tumbleweed> heh
<jtaylor> ah its filed already :) bug 876533
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876533 in Launchpad itself "changing the values in Comboboxes on my code page does not update the branch-list shown" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876533
<Laney> if someone helps me (with a patch ...) to fix the problem I talked about ^ then I'll roll out the new importer ASAP
<Laney> if DSA don't mind installing lplib that is
<tumbleweed> Laney: lucas has root on it, IIRC
 * Laney knows not how it works
<Laney> i emailed d-admin last time
<tumbleweed> ah, I did that too, and my request was never installed :)
<lucas> tumbleweed: are you sure you are talking about the same UDD?
<Laney> samosa
<lucas> ah, ok
<lucas> I don't have root, you need to go through DSA
<tumbleweed> ah, sorry, misremembered
<Laney> that is what i thought, np
<pmjdebruijn> \3\\\\\/win 13
<pmjdebruijn> sorry
<Laney> nice!
<tumbleweed> Laney: from the look of the patch against python, you can use process.stdout.read() to avoid .communicate() throwing the data on the floor
<jtaylor> can we sync stuff from unstable when the reason for it not being in testing is that it does not build on e.g.hurd?
<jtaylor> e.g. flightgear 2.4 is ~40 days in unstable but not in testing due to hurd
<micahg> jtaylor: as long as it has no rdepends, sure :)
<cjwatson> jtaylor: that can't possibly be the reason it isn't in testing; hurd-i386 isn't a Debian release architecture
<jtaylor> hm maybe it needs some kind of hints
<jtaylor> it built on all arches except hurd and has no rc bugs
<jtaylor> neither do its rdeps
<jtaylor> deps
<cjwatson> simgear is marked as not considered, I believe due to simgear2.0.0 still being in the archive and out of date
<cjwatson> which in turn appears to be because fgrun and fgfs-atlas are still built against it
<c_korn> even if I have multiverse enabled apt-cache policy avidemux says there is no  such package. but it should be there: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avidemux
<cjwatson> c_korn: failed to build everywhere with new libav and nobody fixed it, so the binaries were removed.  bug 831096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831096 in avidemux (Ubuntu) "avidemux version 1:2.5.4-0ubuntu7 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831096
<micahg> c_korn: it's source only in precise
<jtaylor> hm I'll wait for the maintainers to sort that out
<cjwatson> c_korn: feel free to fix it in precise and SRU it to oneiric
<c_korn> cjwatson: I see what I can do.
<Laney> tumbleweed: how dirty is this? http://paste.debian.net/137409/ :-)
<Laney> works ...
<tumbleweed> Laney: err why do you need to echo the changelog?
<tumbleweed> how about just using .stdout.read instead of .communicate?
<tumbleweed> any opinions on bug 873984? I don't know anything about OpenSSL ABI stability...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873984 in proftpd-dfsg (Ubuntu) "mod_tls and mod_sftp complain about OpenSSL version mismatch" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873984
<micahg> tumbleweed: I was wondering about that, it seems weird that it would require a rebuild w/out a soname bump in openssl, but maybe proftpd is doing something it shouldn't or needs a stricter depends
<tumbleweed> micahg: I suspect they just don't trust OpenSSL (or users who compile it themselves)
<tumbleweed> micahg: I suppose a rebuild doesn't hurt...
<micahg> tumbleweed: well, if it's not really needed, maybe that should be fixed, if it is needed, then either proftpd needs stricter depends or libssl needs a soname bump
<tumbleweed> my thoughts too
<tumbleweed> given the number of things that link to libssl, I'd have thought that its ABI was well understood...
<micahg> indeed, although there was a change in 1.0.0e that wreaked havoc
<tumbleweed> the SSLv2 drop?
<micahg> tumbleweed: no, we did that in natty, I forgot what it was exactly
<micahg> \o/ mass sync == mass build failures :)
<ajmitch> the list grows long?
 * ajmitch tries to recall where the graph of FTBFS numbers is
 * tumbleweed is trying to persuade geser to merge it into the FTBFS table
<geser> I really hope to find time to review it soon
<cjwatson> most of the ones I've looked at so far have been gnutls fallout
 * ajmitch should see if there are any merges he can do
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: so far, it's flat: http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/precise-historical.html. Wait until it runs tonight...
<jtaylor> so all syncs should be filed
<tumbleweed> geser: it'll be nice if we can land it before doko kicks off any rebuilds, but besides that, there's no hurry
<ajmitch> nice
<jtaylor> not as many as hopped :/
<micahg> cjwatson: so it's not 300 failures in universe ATM?
<cjwatson> micahg: no, I gave back a load, haven't been keeping count
<micahg> cjwatson: ok, that's a relief :)
<Laney> tumbleweed: how do i pass the changelog in then?
<Laney> it needs to go on stdin
<Laney> or else i write it to a temp file
<tumbleweed> Laney: stdin.write?
<Laney> okies
 * Laney somehow missed the python boat
<ajmitch> what are you using that requires it goes on stdin?
<Laney> easier than saving to a temporary file isn't it?
<Laney> bah, that gets broken pipe again
<tumbleweed> yeah, you'll need to catch that
<tumbleweed> but you won't lose the output (as far as I can tell)
<ajmitch> whatever you're doing, it looks interesting :)
<Laney> i preferred the old way
<Laney> aha, works
 * ajmitch wants to look at the whole code for it now, got a branch?
<Laney> will you promise not to be mean?
<ajmitch> when am I ever mean?
<Laney> and instead make improvements
<Laney> it is pretty severely slow
<ajmitch> yeah you said that yesterday, I'm sure I've written worse
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/137499/
<ajmitch> what specifically do you need from dpkg-parsechangelog output? just the Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed & Closes?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> distribution is useful but you can reconstruct that
<Laney> the commented out bit
<tumbleweed> once you are already talking to launchpad, the overhead of shelling out to dpkg-parsechangelog is tiny...
<Laney> indeed
<ajmitch> right, it just looks messy
<ajmitch> I'm just checking what python-debian can do
<Laney> i think it's probably the duplicate checking
<tumbleweed> geser: just realised a potential bug in the historical graph support. diff line 229 deletes data points within the last 12 hours. That won't work if it's cronned more frequently than that. How fast do you usually run it?
<geser> wgrant runs it hourly on qa.ubuntuwire.com
<tumbleweed> maybe I should store a date instead of a timestamp
<tumbleweed> I think one graph point per day is sufficient
<geser> do you store then the min or max or the last value per day?
<tumbleweed> I want all the timestamps for a single run to be the same, so that we can use SQL GROUP BY easily, so I take the current timestamp before we start inserting rows
<tumbleweed> I'll take the timestamp of midnight that day instead
<tumbleweed> the reason I do the deletion is that I didn't want partial runs in the data
<tumbleweed> actually, that's not a danger. I didn't want uneven datapoint frequency when it's occasionally run by hand
<Laney> Rhonda: any news on maverick
<Laney> ?
<Laney> oh, the script finished
<Laney> can't be /that/ slow then
<tumbleweed> that was quick?
<Laney> err
<Laney> no, it's not right
<tumbleweed> :)
<Laney> no precise uploads
 * ajmitch is fairly sure that people have been uploading to precise already
<Laney> yes
<Laney> wow
<Laney> I made it even slower?
<ajmitch> Laney: well done?
<Laney> give me mboxes or give me death
<ajmitch> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes.mbox/precise-changes.mbox
<ajmitch> there you go, have fun
<ajmitch> that only works if all the changes that happen make it to the list, of course
<Laney> :(
 * cjwatson should probably wait for the world to build a bit better before trying to deal with NBS
<cjwatson> or transitions for that matter
<ajmitch> archive admins plan to be a bit more ruthless with purging packages for the LTS?
<cjwatson> I have some plans to marshal people such that we hopefully won't need to
<Rhonda> Laney: It's on my workplace computer, can tell you tomorrow :)
<r3pek> guys, how to rename a file during the instalation of a deb?
<r3pek> the source has it like "abcd.sh" but i want to install it as "abcd"
<tumbleweed> r3pek: rename it during the build, after it's been installed to debian/packagename/usr/bin/abcd.sh
<r3pek> so i have to put that path? the full path? starting with debina/<packagename> ?
<StevenK> dh_install can do it too
<r3pek> dh_install doesn't do renames afaik
<Laney> no, it can't rename
<tumbleweed> r3pek: well, that's where it gets installed to, so yes
<r3pek> ok... i just didn't knew the correct path so my "mv"s were failling :)
<r3pek> hummm :/
<r3pek> still errored out :(
<tumbleweed> that's when you go and see what it did and why it didn't work
<r3pek> that's the easy part :P
<r3pek> mv: cannot stat `debian/sispmctl/etc/bash_completion.d/gemplug-completion.sh': No such file or directory <--- :)
<tumbleweed> so go and see what is there
<r3pek> i can be doing something wrong on my rules file
<r3pek> build/sispmctl:: <----
<r3pek> ^^ i have that and then the mv
<tumbleweed> r3pek: build is too soon
<r3pek> so when? during install?
<tumbleweed> you can't move it until it's there
<tumbleweed> IIRC the cdbs manual gives a good description of the hook points
<r3pek> hummm ok. one mor try :)
 * cdbs has a manual?
<cdbs> :)
<ajmitch> cdbs: you're still using that nick? :P
<cdbs> ajmitch: I really want to switch over, after a long legal (lol) battle I managed to win over the nick "bilal"
<cdbs> feeling lazy to make another move
<cdbs> since, I was "bilalakhtar" earlier, and since "bilal" was occupied I moved to "cdbs"
<ajmitch> just use /nick :)
<cdbs> ajmitch: Its not that easy, you need to tell everyone to call you by this nick
<ajmitch> they'll manage
<ajmitch> better than you getting highlights from people ranting about how cdbs sucks :)
<cdbs> that's actually okay
<cdbs> it gives me a chance to kick into the discussion
<ajmitch> heh
<cdbs> and then tell people to move to dh
<cdbs> since /me hates cdbs
<tumbleweed> lol
<ajmitch> with that, I think I shall find lunch :)
<cdbs> bye ajmitch
 * tumbleweed gets hilighted when people notice channels are dead. Not sure which is more interesting :P
<r3pek> i still don't reallu understand the debian packaging system :)
<r3pek> from a user pov, it's cool. for a dev pov, looks a nightmare so far :X
<tumbleweed> r3pek: it's actually pretty simple, but people have written some rather complex tools to automate most of it, and learning the tools and all their oddities ends up being the nightmare
<RAOF> Also, cdbs *is* unnecessarily arcane.
<tumbleweed> r3pek: http://cdbs-doc.duckcorp.org/en/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id465030 you'll notice that the hook you want is probably install/package
<r3pek> tumbleweed, yes, it's working on install :)
<r3pek> RAOF, i'm just upgrading a package. and trying to learn the package system along the way...
<r3pek> but i'm not even aware what i'm using... cdbs or any other thing :X
<r3pek> [PPA r3pek-sispmctl] [ubuntu/oneiric] sispmctl 3.0-nmu2 (Accepted)
<r3pek> ^^ #win :)
<cjwatson> back down to 72 build failures after the first day of autosyncs; not too shabby
<wgrant> We can fix that by running add-missing-builds if you want :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-18
<cjwatson> wgrant: possibly more sensible to do once infinity is back and armhf buildds are available :)
<wgrant> Probably.
<wgrant> It is arch-specific, but we probably want to run it over all 5 once we've done a round or two of autosyncs.
<cdunlap> I have a beginners question for you.
<cdunlap> I would like to see if I can fix the failed to upload on the lyx package version 2.0.1-1 but I can't seem to find the source.  Apt-get source lyx gets 2.0.0 and bzr branch gets 2.0.0-1.
<cdunlap> I am not sure what I am doing wrong, or where to turn.  There is a package in debian and it is maintained in git.  do I just try to get the source from one of these two locations?
<ajmitch> cdunlap: you'd need to have deb-src lines for precise, or you can try & use 'pull-lp-source lyx' to get it
<cdunlap> ajmitch: Thanks for the direction.
<Rhonda> Laney, maverick tmux backport also tested without any troubles. :)
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Laney: I'm going to update the backports wiki page to suggest the summary to which you changed the tmux ones. ;)
<Laney> good idea
<Rhonda> done :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: poked it a bit more: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
<Laney> nice, that's what I had in mind!
 * Laney wants pineapple rings now
<tumbleweed> also repleaced the canonical employee list with some automated heuristics. They are insanely slow, though
<Laney> one day i'll write the query that inspired me doing all of this data collection
<Laney> what happened to doko in the oneiric list? there were some others above me too when I looked yesterday
<tumbleweed> Laney: 11 uploads as far as I can tell. Maybe your improter is broken :P
<Laney> select source,version,date from ubuntu_upload_history where distribution='oneiric' and changed_by_name='Matthias Klose';
<Laney> looks right to me
<tumbleweed> Laney: I was excluding signed_by = 'N/A', assuming those were syncs
<Laney> hmm, when do you get it?
<Laney> he has signed-by when changed-by was @d.o
<tumbleweed> is signed-by only set when they differ?
<tumbleweed> in that case I wouldn't know how to detect syncs. I guess I can look for changed_by the autosync user
<Laney> might be something to do with DEBEMAIL
<Laney> are there autosyncs in there?
<tumbleweed> there should be, shouldn't there?
<Laney> don't think they get announced
 * tumbleweed is pretty sure they are
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2011-October/thread.html
<Laney> don't see any in there
<tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/oneiric-changes/2011-April/thread.html look for "Ubuntu Installer"
<tumbleweed> actually those could all be manual
<Laney> i am pretty sure that autosync runs set a variable which prevents announcement
<Laney> To sync all the updates available in Debian
<tumbleweed> right, I guess it's been a while since DIF and I forgot
<Laney> sync-source.py -a NOMAILS=-M flush-syncs
<Laney> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Syncs_with_mass-sync.py
<jamdatadude> dholback: thanks so much for the getting start sessions today
<tumbleweed> Laney: think I've debugged that all, but there are still some issues...
<Laney> wow
<Laney> I have no merges?!
<Laney> oh, hah, I was looking ont he manual page
<ForgeAus> uh why is there rott but no rott-data?
<arand> ForgeAus: It's generated by game-data-packager
<ForgeAus> that was not very newbie friendly to install lol... but I managed
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-19
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> http://vps.ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/LPlens_.png
<ajmitch> making progress on something for a change :)
<dholbach> nice!
<geser> also the number of open IRC channels/queries ajmitch has
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> bdrung, could it be that precise's ubuntu-dev-tools is missing a depends on python-distro-info?
<nigelb> ajmitch: pfft only 60-ish channels?
<ajmitch> nigelb: I know, I should do better
<geser> dholbach: tumbleweed fixed it already in r1184
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> thanks
<nigelb> ajmitch: Yeah, you need a few more networks :P
<ajmitch> nigelb: obviously
<showard> hey MOTUs, I'm looking for a sponsor for an SRU, bug #865266
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 865266 in arduino (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Ethernet library: read from Socket broken" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865266
<showard> it's complete and ready. It's for the Arduino platform, a very popular 8-bit AVR development platform
<showard> I uploaded the fix to debian experimental and will also like a sync with that. requestsync can't see it yet though
<sagaci> will 'pbuilder-dist precise create' download from the lines of my sources.list or off the main ubuntu servers?
<tumbleweed> sagaci: pbuilder-dist only uses the main archive servers, not mirrors. There's a bug filed for having configurable mirrors
<sagaci> thanks for the info
<bdrung> dholbach_: no, distro-info was split in version 0.3
<dholbach_> bdrung, pbuilder-dist was exploding without python-distro-info
<bdrung> dholbach_: sorry, i misread your question. it's needed in precise, but not in oneiric
<bdrung> dholbach_: if you missed my response: sorry, i misread your question. it's needed in precise, but not in oneiric
<bdrung> dholbach_: i uploaded u-d-t 0.133 to unstable (with that change)
<dholbach_> ok :)
<dholbach_> great
<bdrung> dholbach_: distro-info 0.3 recommended python-distro-info, but that wasn't the best solution for the moval
 * dholbach_ nods
<debfx> bdrung: I think we should backport vlc 1.1.12-2 to oneiric-proposed, -1 makes it unusable for me due to wrong channel mapping
<bdrung> debfx: yes, i noticed that, too. i am unsure how to backport it (wich version to use, new changelog entry?)
<debfx> bdrung: I would just create a new changelog entry and append ~oneiric1 to the version
<tumbleweed> bdrung: right, and u-d-t 0.133 doesn't give us default syncing-from-testing which 0.132ubuntu0.1 would have done if copied up
<tumbleweed> but I guess that's not very urgent
<c_korn> hum, I get this error during a package build process in a schroot for oneiric i386: http://pastebin.com/tGQF2qaB is there something different in packaging for oneiric?
<tumbleweed> c_korn: I configure my chroots to not allow daemons to start (and I made mk-sbuild do that)
<tumbleweed> so I don't see that, just a policy-rc.d denied execution of start, and dpkg exits successfully
 * micahg thought that was the default now
<tumbleweed> yeah
<c_korn> hum, so I have something configuered wrong
<c_korn> micahg: with default you mean in more recent versions of schroot on the host? because I created the oneiric schroot on a lucid server
<micahg> c_korn: possibly
<tumbleweed> yeah, I made that change post-lucid
<tumbleweed> c_korn: grab a more recent mk-sbuild
<tumbleweed> or just set it up by hand, it's not complex :P
<c_korn> /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d [options] <initscript ID> <actions> [<runlevel>] <-- where do I get the initscript ID from?
<tumbleweed> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/view/head:/mk-sbuild#L613
<c_korn> oh, thanks, tumbleweed. seems I was on the wrong way ;)
<bdrung> debfx: ok, done that
<pdtpatrick> Question .. im getting the following error. ..
<pdtpatrick> http://pastebin.com/MMyuKBf9
<pdtpatrick> i already have keys on launchpad
<pdtpatrick> however i have different keys on my server.. is there a way to tell bzr which keys to use?
<tumbleweed> pdtpatrick: #launchpad for launchpad questions. No I don't see any ssh keys registered on https://launchpad.net/~subgenius
<debfx> bdrung: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-20
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> *sigh*
<Rhonda> Why does the software center have to be so strange â¦ and has *no* icon now for wesnoth in oneiric?!
<Rhonda> Who can I bark at for getting that fixed, and potentially not run into the same issue for the wesnoth 1.10 release that might hit precise?
<Rhonda> I seem to remember that we had the same issue when we switched from 1.6 to 1.8 in the first place, but that puzzles me now. :/
<Rhonda> That it seems to got disfunctional again, in between.
<geser> Rhonda: try talking to mvo
<Rhonda> geser: thanks
<udienz> hi, when mass-sync from debian started?
<udienz> many 'new' packages from debian not sync in precise
<Rhonda> udienz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule does say it's not defined yet.
<cjwatson> udienz: I started it on Monday
<cjwatson> udienz: I've been processing new packages, but haven't worked my way through all of them yet
<cjwatson> udienz: If there are specific ones you care about, tell me
<cjwatson> (it's awkward to automate because we have to be careful about ones that were previously removed from Ubuntu for some reason)
<cjwatson> I've been getting through, er, rough estimate maybe 50 a day
 * udienz chose to wating 'till monday
<cjwatson> udienz: huh?
<cjwatson> udienz: I started it Monday as in three days ago
<cjwatson> udienz: if there are specific new packages you care about, tell me
<udienz> cjwatson, owh i think nexy monday
<udienz> i;ll looking my packages first
<udienz> cjwatson, bug 878809 glfw package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878809 in glfw (Ubuntu) "Please sync glfw 2.7.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878809
<cjwatson> udienz: you can just tell me the package names, I don't need bugs
<cjwatson> er, actually, maybe that's a bad precedent.  but I do not want to be told about the same thing by a bug *and* on IRC, in any case
<cjwatson> udienz: also, that isn't a new package!
<cjwatson> udienz: that's a new version of an existing package.  perhaps you're unaware that we're syncing from testing by default this cycle, unless explicitly requested otherwise
<cjwatson> udienz: once that bug has been acked by a sponsor, it will appear on the list of manual syncs we need to do
<cjwatson> which is a "run a tool once a day or so" kind of thing
<tumbleweed> grr, this bug bot is a pain
<c_korn> is there a "yes" option for mk-build-deps so it does not ask whether I really want to install the dependencies
<cjwatson> c_korn: untested, but I think -t 'apt-get -y'
<c_korn> ok, I test it ;)
<cjwatson> or   MKBUILDDEPS_TOOL='apt-get -y'   in ~/.devscripts.conf
<cjwatson> sorry, ~/.devscripts
<c_korn> I try the command line option first. I have mk-build-deps in a alias anyway
<c_korn> hum, a pkgconfig file in an arch-indep library -dev package contains this line "Cflags: -I${includedir}/c++-gtk-utils-2-2.0 -pthread -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/glib-2.0/include  " does this mean it has to be arch dependent now?
<Laney> good evening
<bkerensa> anyone wanna help me sort out the fact that boinc-client is broken?
<bkerensa> :D
<yofel> bug 878571 for those that don't follow #ubuntu-bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878571 in boinc (Ubuntu) "boinc-client bad signature for URL" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878571
<bkerensa> yofel: thanks :)
<james_w> what was the name of that script that could tell you what ubuntu releases there were, which was the development release etc?
<broder> distro-info
<james_w> thanks
<Kiall> anyone familiar with git-buildpackage? I'm having an issue where the orig.tar.gz is not being extracted from the git repo .. resulting in a "failed .. no orig.tar file found"
<arand> Kiall: is it finding the upstream branch ok?
<Kiall> it seems to...
<Kiall> when i `rm debian/source/format` (native package) it works ..
<Kiall> but with a 3.0 (quilt) package, it fails
<Kiall> arand: I end up with this error: http://pastie.org/2732409
<Kiall> It doesnt seem to even try and extract the tar..
<Kiall> any ideas what might be causing it? :)
<RAOF> Kiall: Do you have a pristine-tar branch?  Is the gbp.conf set up right to build from pristine-tar?
<Kiall> RAOF: yea branch is there .. and I think I have it setup right: http://pastie.org/2732432
<RAOF> Kiall: Yeah, that looks right.  What's the full output of git-buildpackage?
<Kiall> Full output is here: http://pastie.org/2732409
<Kiall> no mention of pristine-tar in it though
<arand> Hmm, what happens if you omit the export dir?
<Kiall> the ../build-area option?
<arand> Yeah..
<Kiall> same thing, no mention of pristine-tar
<arand> If you just run it with --pristine-tar option?
<Kiall> you mean --git-pristine-tar ?
<arand> Ah, yeah
<Kiall> I'll try again, just in case!
<Kiall> Humm..
<Kiall> Oh .. dooh .. tried it in a copy without quilt ;0
<Kiall> Oh .. dooh .. tried it in a copy without quilt ;)
<Kiall> same thing again, no mention of pristine-tar
<Kiall> Do you know of a public repo that uses GPB and pristine-tar? Maybe I can test that
<Kiall> Humm .. Okay, testing with a repo I found and its working
<RAOF> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-xorg/app/apitrace.git;a=summary does.
<RAOF> Hah, too slow.
<Kiall> The only obvious difference is one has an pristine-tar and origin/pristine-tar, while my only has pristine-tar
<Kiall> nope .. thats not it :(
<Kiall> Mind taking a look? https://github.com/kiall/test/tree/pristine-tar
<Kiall> I've obv got something wrong with the repo
<Kiall> aha!
<Kiall> https://github.com/kiall/test/blob/master/debian/changelog#L1 ..
<Kiall> needed to add a -1 to the end of the version
<RAOF> Oh.  To make it non-native.  Right.
<Kiall> yea, makes sense (now)
<Kiall> thanks RAOF / arand
<Kiall> since you guys would probably know, since the upstream package is also managed in git, is it possible for me to clone that repo, and use gpb + quilt without git-import-orig?
<RAOF> Kiall: Absolutely; the apitrace repository I linked to above does exactly that.
<Kiall> ah .. tried that first and didnt get it working :)
<Kiall> how does the pristine-tar branch get managed so?
<RAOF> I just manage it manually - ?pristine-tar commit ../path-to-tarball upstream-branch?
<Kiall> so you create actually create a .tar.gz based on the upstream branch?
<RAOF> Well, that depends.  If there *is* no upstream tarball then you need to create one, but if you're packaging a release you start with their tarball.
<Kiall> and pristine-tar picks up on being inside a git repo and does the rest?
<RAOF> Yeah.  pristine-tar commits to the pristine-tar branch :)
<Kiall> cool :) should be easy to switch over then
<arand> RAOF: So when you import-orig you only touch the pristine branch, and the debian branch?
<RAOF> arand: I don't import-orig.
<RAOF> arand: I merge the upstream release tag the tarball is based on into the ?upstream? branch, merge ?upstream? into debian, and pristine-tar commit the tarball.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-21
<wgrant> Laney: You do some UDD stuff, right (the Debian definition, not the Ubuntu one)?
<ajmitch> he does
 * ajmitch doesn't expect to see him online at this hour though
<james_w> broder, is there a way to get Debian info from distro-info?
<ajmitch> james_w: debian-distro-info
<james_w> ajmitch, thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> wgrant: only one specific bit, but yes
<wgrant> Laney: There's at least one UDD thing using the LP edge API, which has been deprecated for nearly a year now. The consumer name is "merges". Do you know who is responsible for that, so I can convince them to use production instead?
<Laney> wgrant: Hmm, I don't see anything in svn, and I am not aware of anything external which uses lplib...
<Laney> is it coming from a d.o machine?
<wgrant> Laney: I don't know directly which machine it's from, but it's the ultimatedebiandatabase user.
<Laney> maybe lucas knows
<wgrant> Ahhh, just looked up the IP address. It is indeed one of lucas' scripts, running on ubuntuwire.
<wgrant> That explains why you couldn't find it.
<Laney> aha
<Laney> ajmitch: or someone else ubuntuwire-ish â can we get a mirror of UDD on ubuntuwire? (if so, would I be able to have a public_html?)
 * Laney has a fun script idea
<nigelb> Laney: does it involve graphing? :)
<Laney> no
<Laney> I got annoyed by another one of manish's posts on plus
<Laney> he seems to want to do away with universe now
<Laney> it's to showcase cool stuff in there :-)
<ajmitch> Laney: I guess we could, I'll need to read up on how to mirror it though
<Laney> well you'll need postgres
<Laney> and then there's a dump on udd.d.o generated every two days
<ajmitch> yeah that's not a problem
<Laney> not sure if it is rsyncable
<ajmitch> both postgres 8.3 & 8.4 are installed
<Laney> jesus I must be ill
<ajmitch> how much diskspace do you need for your idea?
<Laney> I can't type "psql" properly
<ajmitch> heh
<Laney> don't imagine much
<Laney> it's just "show me a random cool universe package"
<Laney> with cool to be defined
<ajmitch> ok, since there's only a few GB free, the udd dump is currently 667MB compressed
<Laney> this is the box that hosts revu too?
<Laney> laney@samosa> ld -l /usr/bin/pdsq;                                                                                         ~
<ajmitch> no
<Laney> ld: cannot find -l/usr/bin/pdsq
<Laney> there is so much wrong with that
<ajmitch> this is qa.ubuntuwire.com
<Laney> aha
<Laney> dunno, I'm sure I could figure out another way if it's too hard
<ajmitch> not hard, I just have to see what I need to shuffle :)
<Laney> maybe app-install-data would be better, if cool is limited to .desktoped apps only
<Laney> that would probably be a shame
<ajmitch> yeah it would, don't limit it
<ajmitch> a mere 2.6GB uncompressed
<Laney> heh
<Laney> you don't have to mirror every table
<ajmitch> http://wiki.debian.org/UltimateDebianDatabase/CreateLocalReplica is useful
<ajmitch> yeah, but I have to grab the whole dump initially
<Laney> unless you generate your own
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> but it might be useful to have the whole thing on qa.uw, right?
<Laney> certainly
<Laney> tumbleweed could move his scripts there then
<Laney> maybe people could chip in for a bigger drive :-)
<ajmitch> I'll see what's unallocated on the host first
<tumbleweed> yeah, I'd also find a mirror of the Ubuntu UDD stuff on ubuntiwire handy
<ajmitch> wgrant would know better than I would about what to sort out for disk space there
<Laney> who hosts it / owns the hardware?
<ajmitch> iirc it's nafallo that touches the hardware itself
<ajmitch> there are a few kvm guests on the server
<nigelb> Laney: who's post were you annoyed at?
<Laney> manish
<nigelb> sinha?
<Laney> yes
<nigelb> The one about battle for wenoth?
<nigelb> *wesnoth?
<Laney> no, i got annoyed about that one before
<Laney> something about icons
<nigelb> Ah, right.
<nigelb> I've learned to ignore a few posts
<Laney> it was in the comments
<ajmitch> Laney: #ubuntuwire if you want
<tumbleweed> Laney: btw, before I forget, in early breezy auto-syncs did make it to -changes. This was giving a huge spike in that graph. I ignored them now. Determining components for upload history is also non-trivial. If you could include that in your new importer, that'd be great.
<Laney> ack
<nigelb> Ah. I see it.
<ajmitch> packages can be in universe at the time of upload & then promoted to main a few days later without you seeing it
<Laney> hmm?
<Laney> oh, yeah
<ajmitch> promotions don't require an upload
<Laney> but for upload history the component at the time of upload is interesting
<ajmitch> and new packages go to universe by default
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yeah, I know, but... what Laney said
<ajmitch> yeah it is interesting
<ajmitch> it probably won't skew numbers too much
<Laney> if you need the current component you can look in another tabe
<Laney> table
<tumbleweed> it's currently badly skewed towards unknown http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
<tumbleweed> partly because we aren't importing archived releases sources
<tumbleweed> partly because not every sourec package uploaded during a release is in the final sources for that releas
<ajmitch> large images ahead :)
<tumbleweed> naah, it's all js
<ajmitch> right but I'm scrolling for miles
<tumbleweed> :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: not that I've had to touch it since I installed it, but yeah. I'm the PoC :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: right :)
<wgrant> It has tonnes of space free, since it no longer does archive rebuilds.
<ajmitch> almost 120GB unallocated
<wgrant> And I suspect a fair bit of the rest is in unused VM images.
<ajmitch> yes, though the VMs look to be using images on the filesystems instead of lvm?
<wgrant> ajmitch: Right, the VM-specific LVs are from the Xen days.
<wgrant> They can probably be deleted without much thought, but there's a bit free in the existing virt volume, and 110GB free in the VG...
<ajmitch> yeah, it's mostly syklone that I want more disk space on at the moment
 * Laney welcomes tumbleweed!
<tumbleweed> heh, thanks
 * Laney flashes the secret signal
<nigelb> To DMB?
<Laney> aye aye cap'n
<nigelb> \o/
 * tumbleweed whispers something discreetly
<tumbleweed> nigelb: I'm a temporary standin for persia
<Laney> TO THE DEVELOPER-APPLICATIONMOBILE!
 * Laney hits "Add member" and speeds off
<tumbleweed> we vaguely talked about a motu session at UDS. Any more thoughts?
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Yeah, I hope persia's alright.
<nigelb> I actually talked to him at UDS about board members being inactive.
<nigelb> I find it ironic now :)
<tumbleweed> apparently he is, but yeah I haven't got any responses either
<Laney> apparently there are a lot of people getting their first fixes in (so dholbach told me yesterday), we are just failing at converting them into developers
<tumbleweed> that sounds about right. the locals who jammed with me got sponsored uploads, but haven't got hooked (they claim not to have the time)
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: I don't have time either, but I'm still sort of somewhat in the launchpad team :)
<tumbleweed> yeah, if we all just had more time...
<AnAnt> Hello, is there a way to control the logo position in unity-greeter ?
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: seeing as you appear to be around and just mentioned syncpackage. I had a question for you: Have you seen bug 878868
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878868 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "syncpackage --no-lp picks up to many changelog entries in certain situations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878868
<tumbleweed> it's a bit of a crazy corner case, but it made me wonder why we were doing what we are in syncpackage
<DktrKranz> I've seen something similar in the past too
 * tumbleweed just noticed that his patch in that bug would probably break new package syncs, but that's not related to the question :)
<DktrKranz> for NEW packages from Debian, it makes sense to have full changelog. It doesn't for packages we already had in Ubuntu.
<tumbleweed> the problem here wasn't that we took the full changelog, but that we had version 1.1-0ubuntu1 in ubuntu, so we took changelog enttries >= 1.1-0. Why not >> 1.1-0ubuntu1
<DktrKranz> value passed to -v should be current version or 0 in case there isn't one
<DktrKranz> then, dpkg will do the right thing
<tumbleweed> right, I'll sort that out, my real question here is why are we using get_related_debian_version() at all?
<DktrKranz> mmh
<DktrKranz> I vaguely remember something
<tumbleweed> one possible reason I can think of is packages like configure-debian, which went native to non-native, and we can't sync them properly until they get a new upstream version.
<DktrKranz> I think it already checks wheter versions are fine
<tumbleweed> yes, but if it did get a new upstream version, we'd want to pick up theintermediate changelog entries too, with get_releated_debian_version() we do
<DktrKranz> as long as it takes the current version in the suite, intermediate changelogs should be considered automatically
<tumbleweed> in this case. Ubuntu: 1.0.2ubuntu3. Debian: 1.0.2-0.1. If Debian were to go to 1.0.3-1. We'd want to not miss 1.0.2-0.1's changelog entry
<DktrKranz> get_related_debian_version() is useful here, perhaps it just needs to be extended to pick common ancestor
<tumbleweed> that requires walking both changelogs
<tumbleweed> but yes, I also agree that that's probably the right thing to do
<DktrKranz> aren't LP APIs able to determine versions?
<DktrKranz> I thought LP would know
<tumbleweed> ah, yeah ,we could walk the publication histories
<DktrKranz> (oh, btw. "debuild", "--no-lintian" => "dpkg-buildpackage" ?)
<tumbleweed> sounds about right
<tumbleweed> looks like bdrung made that change
<tumbleweed> not sure why. For the build log?
<tumbleweed> (r 653)
<bdrung> DktrKranz: no to "debuild", "--no-lintian" => "dpkg-buildpackage" because it doesn't evaluate debuild options (key signing is a killer feature for me)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: re version: we need to find the common anchor for the debian and ubuntu version
<tumbleweed> bdrung: agreed. I started looking at it, but doing it probably will require a little refactoring, to save lp roundtrips elsewhere in syncpackage
<bdrung> tumbleweed: btw, i commented the bug with one example
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we should put that function into a library and write some test cases for it.
<tumbleweed> 'fraid it's not that easy. We need to implement it twice. Once for a local changelog (syncing from a dsc), and once for LP records on both distros
<tumbleweed> btw, I have some ideas for running tests that require lp. But I doubt I'll have time for that any time soon :/
<bdrung> tumbleweed: using stubs for the lp objects?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: no, recording api queries and responses, and replaying them
<bdrung> nice
<bdrung> idea
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-22
<cdunlap> when you do a patch using quilt...
<cdunlap> Can you make your change, build it, then go back into the same patch to fix it or do you need to create another patch?
<cdunlap> I guess my question is, can you add to an existing patch?
<cdunlap> nvm, I figured it out.
<pLpB> Hello
<cdunlap> Hi
<pLpB> Good night, day, afternoon in your respectives countrys
<cdunlap> To you as well
<pLpB> (:
<pLpB> Who is programmer here?
<cdunlap> I'm not sure on that to be honest, I am not one (at least not a very good one).
<pLpB> Oh. (:
<pLpB> So you work with what?
<cdunlap> Right now I am just doing the small, or bitsize, bug fixes to try and increase my skill level.  So really, I am just doing small cosmetic work.
<mase_work> cdunlap: it all helps
<cdunlap> mase: I appreciate that
<pLpB> Did you guys already check my new, small project pBreak?
<pLpB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkUWBMkSdns
<mase_work> cool. not sure if you are aware but thre are desktop tools to record your desktop
<mase_work> so you don't have to hold a camcorder up to your screen
<pLpB> Yeah, I know
<pLpB> It's the recordmyDesktop does'nt work propertly on my Oneiric
<pLpB> :/
<pLpB> Start with some lags
<mase_work> really ? i don't have that issue, i made a recording just yesterday
<mase_work> mind you i am not running unity
<pLpB> Oh
<pLpB> Maybe thats the problema
<pLpB> * problem
<pLpB> But, I'ts strange
<pLpB> Cause I already has seen another videos recorded with rmd and works normally
<cdunlap> I know this has nothing to do with the channel, but what do you guys/girls use for a chat client?
<jbicha> !irc | cdunlap
<ubottu> cdunlap: A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines
<jtaylor> where does lplib place all its cache?
<jtaylor> found it  ~/.launchpadlib
<jtaylor> should use .cache :/
<Zhenech> where do I report a bug against, when the update kills accesibility settings and makes the machine unusable for the user?
<jtaylor> which package was updated?
<Zhenech> ubuntu from 11.04 to 11.10
<jtaylor> wasn't Werror=format-security enabled in debian too?
<jtaylor> lots of build failures in ubuntu, but not in debian due to it :/
<Laney> flags aren't exported to the enviroment by dpkg-buildpackage in debian
<Laney> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2011/09/msg00001.html
<jtaylor> and in ubuntu they are?
<Laney> yep
<jtaylor> yey more ubuntu diffs and wishlist bug filings ._.
<debfx> why do we need to export the flags in dpkg-buildpackage anyway? aren't the hardening flags enabled in gcc/ld?
<jtaylor> you may want to disable hardening for some situations
<jtaylor> this is done easiest via dpkg-buildflags
<jtaylor> e.g. some of them have performance impact
<jtaylor> the exporting also shows other bugs
<jtaylor> a couple of packages cannot handle more than one CFLAG due to wrong quoting ^^
<dupondje> Is 12.04 open yet for merge/sync requests ? :)
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> but preferably only from testing
<dupondje> lets do some then :)
<Laney> i wonder why we fixed a bashism in a file that starts #!/bin/bash :-)
<tumbleweed> debfx: they aren't in GCC in debian. And we didn't want to do it like that in debian. Thus the attenion on build flags
<tumbleweed> oh, bdrung, re syncpackage walking history. One can't do it without having both changelogs. The SPPH records don't match up with changelog entries
<tumbleweed> the comman base ancestor is available from MoM, but I wouldn't want to depend on that (I assume MoM doesn't run *that* often)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we can't get the changelog version out of an SPPH?
<tumbleweed> each SPPH entry can represent more than one changelog entry
<bdrung> hm, could we pull the changelog in another way from launchpad?
<tumbleweed> not yet, although there's an open bug for some of that...
<wgrant> tumbleweed, bdrung: Do you have a bug number for exposing the changelog?
<tumbleweed> wgrant: bug 833384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833384 in Launchpad itself "API access to debian changelog" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833384
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Thanks.
<tumbleweed> API access to the ubuntu changelog would also be handy, although not part of that bug...
<tumbleweed> every ubuntu upload used to have a changes file that gave indirect changelog access, that's no longer the case
<wgrant> Yeah, and it's about four lines of code to provide it for all SPPHs.
<wgrant> Testing now...
<tumbleweed> thanks:)
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Which API version does syncpackage use at the moment?
<wgrant> devel?
<tumbleweed> yes
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-23
<micahg> siretart: is there any reason for me to not sync lame from Debian testing?
<ari-tczew> hello
<ari-tczew> is following traceback ok? http://paste.debian.net/139051/
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed:  ^^
<siretart> micahg: I didnt' check yet, but I don't know of a reason for divergence either
<micahg> siretart: well, it builds on both i386 and amd64 w/no soname change...
<Laney> afternoon
<nigelb> ohai Laney
<Laney> alright?
<ajmitch> hi
<nigelb> Yeah, lazy sunday evening :)
<nigelb> You?
<Laney> digesting me lunch before swimming
<Laney> ajmitch is up late!
<nigelb> Nice
<ajmitch> Laney: yeah there are noisy people out in the street
<Laney> hah
<ajmitch> something about the rugby world cup :P
<Laney> wonder why?
<nigelb> who won?
<ajmitch> nigelb: NZ
<nigelb> ajmitch: Neat.
<Laney> hoorah
<Laney> python-launchpadlib is installed on samosa (udd.debian.org)
<ajmitch> yay
<Laney> gah
<Laney> no dpkg-dev
<nigelb> Laney: "samosa" makes me laugh :)
<nigelb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samosachutney.jpg
<Laney> yeah i do like a samosa
<nigelb> I should go out and grab a few.
 * Laney proposes dosa.debian.org
<Laney> yum yum
<nigelb> heh
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/139085/
<Laney> tumbleweed: ^ :-)
<Laney> & so to swim, bye bye
<nigelb> laters!
<tumbleweed> Laney: :) any chance of slipping the component in there?
<jtaylor> do we really want to enable format-security without doing it in debian? :/
<jtaylor> there will be hundreds of failures
<jtaylor> there already are, and those are only the new packages
<jtaylor> it will be worse than as-needed :/
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: there was some discussion on #ubuntu-release the other day http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-release.html#t11:25
<Ceno3x> Hello everyone. I've just finished writing a Qt application in Qt Creator and would like to publish  a deb package, maybe even set up a ppa. Could anyone give me a pointer to the right place to start?
<tumbleweed> Ceno3x: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/
<tumbleweed> althogh, if you want a beginner guide to packaging, I really like this one http://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging
<Ceno3x> tumbleweed: thx, I am totally in need to a "complete idiot's guide" to debian packaging
<kees> jtaylor: it is already enabled in debian
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> at least not yesterday
<jtaylor> the exporting of hardened flags must be enabled by the maintainer
<jtaylor> I submitted bugs until N for the existing failures
<jtaylor> but there will probably hundreds more on the next archive rebuild :/
<kees> jtaylor: hrm? we must be misunderstanding eachother
<kees> the -Werror=format-security comes from dpkg-buildflags in Debian.
<kees> any ftbfses will mirror those in debian
<jtaylor> yes but almost no packages uses that
<jtaylor> with the new dpkg
<jtaylor> it must be enabled by the maintainer
<jtaylor> see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2011/09/msg00001.html
<jtaylor> in precise is it enabled for all packages
<kees> right but those that do are the same between debian and ubuntu. it's just that ubuntu is rebuilding stuff now with the new dpk, so things like cdbs, dh(1) packages are seeing the flag now in ubuntu when they haven't been rebuilt yet in debian
<jtaylor> no they don't fail in debian
<kees> how is it wnabled for all packages in precise?
<jtaylor> unless you enable it
<jtaylor> no idea
<tumbleweed> we are still exporting flags in dpkg-buildpackage in precise
<kees> tumbleweed: ah, so ubuntu's change is that dpkg-builpackage is doing an addition export of the dpkg-buildflags output?
<tumbleweed> yes, like debian used to, before debian had hardening flags in there
<kees> that's the piece I was missing. interesting. that really will be a lot of packages with busted builds.
<jtaylor> yes just look at the list of ftbs
<kees> though it is interesting, a lot of those breakages are real problems. not all, but enough.
<jtaylor> disabling werror=format-security will fix pretty much all failures
<jtaylor> but the issues can be fixed easily too, its just a lot of bug filing ._.
<kees> well, if there's a delta on how dpkg-buldflags is used, that's going to be a problem. filtering it out of the export (what cjwatson suggested) might be a good idea.
<kees> the point was to make this change incrementally in debian. :P
<tumbleweed> yeah, that sounsd like the way of least breakage
<kees> yeah, several hundred bugs are in the debian bts too.
 * kees must run
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: can you attach the patch in debian bug 646369 to http://bugs.bitlbee.org/bitlbee/ticket/786? I'm to lazy to make an account ;)
<ubottu> Debian bug 646369 in bitlbee "bitlbee: incorrectly linked when built with --as-needed" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/646369
<jtaylor> concerns bug 879730 and bug 757008
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 879730 in bitlbee (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/bitlbee/otr.so: undefined symbol: otrl_init" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879730
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 757008 in BitlBee "/usr/lib/bitlbee/otr.so: undefined symbol: otrl_init" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757008
<jtaylor> afk 15 min
<tumbleweed> sure, guess I can
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: no account needed
<Ceno3x> hey guys, how can I generate a source package for a custom kernel? I'm using make-kpkg kernel_image for the image .deb, but I need a source package to upload it to launchpad
<jtaylor> re
<jtaylor> oh nice
<tumbleweed> Ceno3x: ubuntu kernels aren't build with make-kpkg. Read all about it at wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam (they also have an IRC channel)
<Ceno3x> tumbleweed: oh. ok, thanx, I'll look into it. Thanks for the links you gave earlier today, already got a couple of packages on launchpad : -)
<tumbleweed> np
<jtaylor> Submission rejected as potential spam (Akismet says content is spam)
<jtaylor> yey ._.
<Laney> bah
<Laney> this launchpad-supplied data is worse
<Laney> you don't get the email they uploaded with
<Laney> you aren't even guaranteed to be able to get an email address at all
<Laney> Changed-By: Debian Tryton Maintainers <N/A>
<geser> from the LP API?
<Laney> yeah
<tumbleweed> people can hide their e-mail addresses
<tumbleweed> you can search by e-mail address, but not see all addresses
<tumbleweed> Laney: if you read the changes file, you can get addresses
<Laney> i can get ~changed-by from the parsed changelog
<Laney> dpkg-parsechangelog calls it Maintainer for some reason
<tumbleweed> you download the changelog?
<Laney> aye
<tumbleweed> :/
<Laney> to get the closed bugs
<tumbleweed> yeah, I remember now
<tumbleweed> although with the changelog method on LP that wgrant just added, that wouldn't be necessary for bugs
<tumbleweed> (err is adding)
<Laney> what's that then?
<tumbleweed> but probably wouldn't give you uploaders
<tumbleweed> bug 833384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833384 in Launchpad itself "API access to debian changelog" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833384
<Laney> that will give text or a librarian url?
<tumbleweed> dunno
<Laney> I would probably be lazy and give it to parsechangelog anyway :-)
<Laney> unless there is a nice function that can take a string and give me a list of closed bugs
<tumbleweed> LP internally uses a couple of regexes for that
<Laney> sure
<jtaylor> wouldn't it make sense to set -Werror=implicit-function-declaration? the builds fail due to that anyway
<jtaylor> only latter
<tumbleweed> sounds like it, but I'm no expert there
<Laney> ok there we go
<Laney> it uses changesfiles now
<Laney> if it can
<cjwatson> kees,jtaylor: I'm definitely thinking of filtering out -Werror=format-security, but doko wants to get test rebuild results first
<cjwatson> jtaylor: you can stop complaining about it, I've got the message :-)
<cjwatson> the thing I noticed today that may tip the balance is that exporting CFLAGS=-Werror=format-security causes some configure tests to fail; so far I've only noticed this when it causes builds to fail as a knock-on effect, but I'm concerned that we might be silently disabling features in a few cases
<cjwatson> that's the sort of thing a real maintainer is more likely to notice
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: when are we expecting the first rebuild?
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: it's not on the release schedule, so I'm not sure.  ask doko when he's around?
<tumbleweed> will do, thanks
<Laney> anyone remember how to get the syncer of a copyPackage synced SPPH?
<Laney> ah, creator
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> in devel only
 * Laney gets something with 1.0
<tumbleweed> can't argue with that :P
<Laney> hmm
<tumbleweed> it'd make life a lot easier if we required everyone who did uploads to have a public e-mail addresses...
<Laney> so I'll just set Signed-By as creator if it is set, otherwise you get N/A
<Laney> might make it difficult to do analysis, having to look at Signed-By for syncs but Changed-By for other stuff
<tumbleweed> that's how things are already, though
<Laney> also you don't get it for autosyncs
<tumbleweed> can you identify autosyncs?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> Ubuntu Archive Auto whateveritis
<tumbleweed> katie
<tumbleweed> I don't think there is any way to tell a sponsored sync (Changed-By is the sponsoree) from a non-sponsored sync (Change-By is debian uploader)
<Laney> what is Signed-By for those syncs?
 * tumbleweed better find an example
<cjwatson> autosyncs shouldn't have Signed-By
<cjwatson> don't recall offhand about syncpackage ones
<Laney> what about non-auto AA syncs?
<cjwatson> nor should they - sync-source.py syncs go through a special queue with a policy that doesn't require signatures
<Laney> same, just with Changed-By set to the user IIRC
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> (I think)
<Laney> wondering how best to represent syncpackaged syncs
<Laney> overriding Changed-By with the syncer would be more in line with this then
<tumbleweed> Laney: currently syncpackaged syncs have signed-by = syncer, and changed-by = debian uploader in -changes. That's probably wrong, and doesn't match previous AA syncs
<tumbleweed> AA manual syncs had changed_by = syncer, signed_by = N/A
<Laney> right, I just added this
<Laney>     if spph.creator is not None:
<Laney>         changedby = person_to_name_email(spph.creator)
<Laney> if sponsored syncs get done then we can put that into Signed-By
<Laney> providing it is exposed â¦
<tumbleweed> yeah, that'd match the old world
<tumbleweed> question is, do we want the current -changes mail for mat for native syncs to be changed?
<Laney> soz, got to go to the cinema. My initial feelings are that Signed-By is a more correct representation of what we're doing, but it's not so much better that it makes breaking backwards compat worthwhile
<Laney> seeya
<tumbleweed> enjoy
<stevecrozz> I'm getting this lintian warning: "debian-watch-file-in-native-package", but I'm not intending to build a native package
<stevecrozz> how do I tell debuild that my package is non-native?
<ajmitch> check the version in debian/changelog, and check that you have a matching .orig.tar.gz
<tumbleweed> two ways. Either put '3.0 (quilt)' to have a 3.0 format non-native package, or have a .orig.tar.gz in ..
<ajmitch> what tumbleweed said ^
<ajmitch> :)
<tumbleweed> check the version, too. And you need the .orig.tar.whatever no matter which source format you want to use
<stevecrozz> the original ubuntu changelog entry says: "inspircd (1.1.22+dfsg-4ubuntu1)", and now I've added a new entry: "inspircd (2.0.5~stevecrozz2)"
<stevecrozz> what name will it look for under .orig.tar.gz?
<tumbleweed> that's a native version number. you probably want to use something more like 2.0.5-0~stevecrozz+2
<stevecrozz> cool! i think that's done it... now I have even more lintian warnings :)
<tumbleweed> according to debian bug 620960, there is already some progress in packaging the 2.x series, but they haven't finished it yet
<ubottu> Debian bug 620960 in inspircd "inspircd: 1.1 no longer supported, package not maintained actively" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/620960
<tumbleweed> but there is a link to the current packaging progress
<tumbleweed> I'm sure patches are welcome
<stevecrozz> i'll check that out
<stevecrozz> the ppa build machines seem to be taking a lot longer than they used to
<stevecrozz> i haven't built anything for over a year, but i used to get builds within the hour pretty easily
<micahg> stevecrozz: all depends on how many machines available vs how large the queue is, some builders were MIA for a bit, but have come back now
<tumbleweed> if you are doing any significant amount of work, you'll probably want to test build locally, rather than in PPAs
<Sp4rKy> W/ 14
<wgrant> tumbleweed, Laney: There'll be a new SPPH.changelogUrl(), which returns a path like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+sourcepub/1234/changelog, that redirects to the librarian file.
<wgrant> tumbleweed, Laney: (that redirect is necessary to handle private changelog)
<wgrant> +s
<Laney> wgrant: do you keep track of lp bugs closed with a particular publication?
<wgrant> Laney: No.;
<Laney> okies
<wgrant> It's not exactly clear what that would mean.
<Laney> Really? When an upload causes bugs to be closed ...
<wgrant> Right, but what about copies, overrides, etc?
<wgrant> Does only the initial publication close the bugs? Or is it any publication of that version in that suite?
<Laney> LP knows when it closes bugs
<wgrant> Sure, but how do we report them?
<wgrant> We could reasonably simply provide a list on the first publication, but is that useful?
<Laney> I don't know how that's different to "what is in Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed" (besides filtering out bugs on different source packages / nominated bugs?)
<Laney> anyway, I can work it out another time, got to go to bed
<tumbleweed> also filtering already closed bugs
<wgrant> It's not clear how announcements work either :)
<wgrant> Currently we only announce some things.
<wgrant> Usually the initial introduction of a version into an archive.
<wgrant> So that doesn't answer which SPPHs should be blamed for bug closures.
<wgrant> Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed doesn't help, since we don't have changes file for copies.
<wgrant> And changes file don't make sense for copies.
<tumbleweed> I think they make sense for copies. Certainly the sync-sources changes files made sense
<wgrant> To a limited extent.
<TheMuso> /c/c
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-15
<mfisch> I'm working on a bug that affects lightdm (ubuntu) and "precise", so I assign both of them to myself?
<mfisch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/887316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887316 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "/var/lib/lightdm files owned by invalid user after reinstall (directory should be clean when lightdm is removed)" [Low,In progress]
<mfisch> I don't understand the purpose of the 2nd piece of the bug "Precise - Confirmed - etc"
<TheLordOfTime> mfisch, because it could be fixed in Quantal before Precise
<TheLordOfTime> since Precise needs most bugs SRU'd to get them updated in those repos
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> hey
<Laney> dholbach: I got my webcam ;-)
<Laney> comes with a stupidly short cable though, so it won't actually reach from the monitor to the USB port
<MCR1> Hey all: I need a volunteer to help with bug 968112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 968112 in emerald (Ubuntu) "Emerald (the original Compiz Window Decorator) not available in Precise and Quantal, while it was working on all Ubuntu versions before [needs-packaging]" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968112
<MCR1> Probably it was not packaged anymore, because standard compilation procedure did not work anymore in Precise.
<MCR1> I added all info to the description of the bug.
<MCR1> Is there anything more I can do to get this packaged again ?
<MCR1> (it is not for me as I know how to get it to work locally, but it should be available for the average user as well as it is a regression for everyone who was happy with Emerald before Precise)
<dholbach> Laney, yeehaw
<mitya57> hey dholbach, did you see my packaging guide branch? are you ok with such a big diff or should I split it into separate per-change merge proposals?
<dholbach> mitya57, to be honest I didn't have a chance to look into it yet
<dholbach> I got the mail, but got entangled in a few other things
<mitya57> dholbach: nothing urgent, so please let me know if i should split it ;)
<dholbach> will do
<dholbach> thanks a lot mitya57 for your work on it!
<Laney> siretart: can you check https://launchpadlibrarian.net/119785886/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.handbrake_0.9.8%2Bdfsg1-1~19.gbpc8b9ba~ubuntu12.10_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz please?
<siretart> Laney: smells like upstream should have a serious look at this issue
<Laney> sure does
<siretart> ../libhb/decavcodec.c:1488:17: warning: implicit declaration of function 'av_audio_convert_alloc' [-Wimplicit-function-declaration]
<siretart> i suspect that handbrake misses some #include statement to fix this
<siretart> Laney: what ppa is that? I persume you tried to import the debian package to ubuntu?
<Laney> siretart: no ppa, quantal-backports
<siretart> err, and where is this package backported from? development of the r-series hasn't started yet afaiui
<Laney> correct, it's an new thing
<siretart> ah, i see. you directly uploaded it directly. I wasn't aware that this was covered by the current backporters policy.
<Laney> yeah, backporters started a new policy of uploading stuff directly there during freeze
<siretart> Laney: where are those policies discussed these days?
<Laney> siretart: I think we talked about it in here and at UDS, and then it was taken to the TB so on their mailing list and in an IRC meeting
<Laney> it is true that we haven't announced it yet
<Laney> it's still a bit experimental
<siretart> Laney: ok. well, technically I'm still a member of that team, admittedly, I wasn't very active lately, but I'm working on that.
<Laney> fair enough
<Laney> we'd definitely welcome more active members
<siretart> so I'd really appreciate if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports could be kept up-to-date
<Laney> everyone is quite busy, as usual
<Laney> yeah i expect to communicate it quite soon hopefully
<siretart> thanks
<siretart> as for the warning, it also applies to debian, so it should definitly be filed as a bug
<siretart> can you do that?
<siretart> the handbrake package in debian is currently in experimental for a reason. for ubuntu, john stebbins provides wonderfully working packages
<siretart> while functional, they are unfortunately not really appropriate for the main archive :(
<Zhenech> does ubuntu have a public lintian host like lintian.d.o?
<cjwatson> lintian.ubuntuwire.org
<Zhenech> ah ubuntuwire, thanks!
<TheLordOfTime> any MOTU around?
<mfisch> TheLordOfTime: thanks for the answer last night
<TheLordOfTime> hm?  remind me which answer where...?
 * TheLordOfTime yawns
<TheLordOfTime> anyways, i know jbicha's alive, but MOTU questions exist now.  in the nginx package in Precise, in Universe, 1.1.19 is pretty broken
<TheLordOfTime> segfaulty, its got misconfigurations, etc.
<TheLordOfTime> the nginx team on their mailing list is basically not supporting 1.1.19, some of the upstream are asking whether we can upgrade the precise versino in the  repos to something more recent
<TheLordOfTime> correct me if i'm wrong, but that's frowned upon, right?
<mfisch> TheLordOfTime: it was a question about bug reports
<TheLordOfTime> mfisch, ah
<TheLordOfTime> mfisch, bug reports are awsum :p
<mfisch> Sleep was awesomer which is why I missed your answer until this morning
 * TheLordOfTime yawns
<TheLordOfTime> i probably forgot giving the answer to a question... *checks*
<TheLordOfTime> this was... about when?
 * TheLordOfTime yawns again
<TheLordOfTime> urgh, coffee is needed :/
<mfisch> TheLordOfTime: last night, about 14 hours ago, but it's not a big deal
<TheLordOfTime> i'm curious now :/
<mfisch> TheLordOfTime> 22:55:28> mfisch, because it could be fixed in Quantal before Precise
<mfisch> Shouldn't a time lord have a handle on when he did certain things?
<TheLordOfTime> mfisch, not when he's sleep deprived :p
 * TheLordOfTime hasnt had decent sleep in 3 days
<TheLordOfTime> now, i still need an answer about that nginx thing
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: if 1.1.9 is totally broke, an SRU of 1.2.0 could be entertained
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, its significantly broke.  a crucial command, try_files, which basically tells nginx "Try [this file] and then [this file] and then [this file], and if all else fails, try [final file], then error out." is somewhat broken
<TheLordOfTime> there's other errors too apparently
<TheLordOfTime> and the nginx mailing list says "yeah, upgrade to fix that.  kthxbai."
<TheLordOfTime> (basically)
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: if it's one bug or a few, a cherry pick is preferred, if the current version is unusable, then a new version might make more sense
<TheLordOfTime> i'd have to dig around for 1.2.0, not sure if i can even find taht anymore
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, that's what i told them :p
<TheLordOfTime> its *usable*, but just barely
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: well, once you're jumping versions, might as well backport from quantal
<TheLordOfTime> mhm
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: if it's usable, maybe an actual backport is better (though would be nice to fix the bugs)
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, i'm in agreement on both points
<TheLordOfTime> but that's not my call, i'm not the maintainer for nginx, just one of its triagers.  that, and i cant exactly test every package produced by nginx
<TheLordOfTime> (in the backport tests)
<micahg> Ubuntu doesn't have maintainers
<micahg> :)
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, is there  a way to see what uploads have been sponsored for me?  throughout history, not just pending.
<TheLordOfTime> (since i'd know what's pending :P)
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi
<TheLordOfTime> thanks
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, can you set what a bug applies to (release-wise)?  because there's an nginx bug that affects precise, but afaict does not affect Quantal
<TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1065555  <-- this one needs set against Precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1065555 in nginx (Ubuntu) "Known segfault in 1.1.19 (the current stable)" [High,In progress]
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: nominate for series
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: task added, feel free to clean it up
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, that bug there is also one of the main 'broken' ones
<TheLordOfTime> thanks.  also, that bug is what prompted upstream's request for version bumping, although i could easily cherrypick the changes to fix it
<TheLordOfTime> *shrugs*
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, i'm going to cherrypick the fix, since its a one-liner
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, i assume there's an additional group you'd need to set the series nomination without waiting for approval?
<TheLordOfTime> (bugcontrol can't just "do that")
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: uploaders or release-drivers
<TheLordOfTime> thought so
<rigid> i'm trying to build a .deb for my gtk+2.0 project but the binary isn't included (despite "make install" normally installs it into /usr/bin) ... the .deb just contains CONTENTS/usr/share/doc/... did I run into a common pitfall?
<rigid> any hints appreciated
<rigid> the /tmp directory correctly contains all the necessary files
<micahg> ahasenack: is landscape-client the only landscape related package inthe archive?
<micahg> (moved here since the TB meeting is imminent)
<ahasenack> micahg: source, yes, but there are more binaries
<micahg> ahasenack: right, was just wondering if we needed a packageset or not...
<micahg> that's fine
<ahasenack> micahg: ok
<rigid> i use "dh_make --createorig --single && dpkg-buildpackage -b" to build the .deb (i could paste the whole script & debian/ directory if necessary)
<rigid> they don't throw any errors btw. and the same method works fine for other packages
<rigid> ...but I guess this is not so common :)
<rigid> is there a way to find out how ubuntu packages are created? e.g. how gcalctool 6.6.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb was created?
<TheLordOfTime> download the source package and look through it?  a lot of Ubuntu packages are synced from Debian
<TheLordOfTime> or based off of Debian versions
<micahg> rigid: pull-lp-source gcalctool 6.6.0-0ubuntu1
<rigid> ah
<rigid> TheLordOfTime: micahg thank you
<rigid> hm... but that doesn't contain the dpkg-buildpackage/pbuilder command used to create the .deb, does it?
<micahg> rigid: archive packages are built with a hacked version of sbuild
<rigid> hm... that doesn't help much :) but thanks anyway
<micahg> should just be debuild -b on i386 or debuild -B on amd64 (or something similar)
<TheLordOfTime> or read the pbuilder manpages to learn how to use pbuilder
<TheLordOfTime> (no offense, had to say it)
<rigid> i tried that before. currently i'm using dpkg-buildpackage but always the same error... I guess the error is in my configure.ac
<rigid> I didn't try pbuilder, tho...
<micahg> well, learning pbuilder won't help you understand how the in-archive packages are made
<micahg> it's a decent substitute most of the time though
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, true.
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, speaking of archives, is there any difference between Dev Membership Board application process, and the process to get per-package rights for a universe package? (I assume not)
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: umm, not sure what you mean by "Dev Membership Board application process"
<TheLordOfTime> one moment
<TheLordOfTime> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#PerPackage  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
<TheLordOfTime> i assume that covers PPU rights for universe packages as well?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: pretty much
<TheLordOfTime> (resend due to a send queue flush) micahg:  when we update a package with ubuntu only changes, from the Debian revision number, does it become -1ubuntu0, or -1ubuntu1 ?
<TheLordOfTime> (SRUs)
<ScottK> There's no set rule.
<ScottK> I would do -1ubuntu0.1
<slangasek> there's a strong guideline though, in the form of the security team's versioning scheme which is linked from the SRU wiki page
<TheLordOfTime> ah there we go, ScottK's right on that
<ScottK> Right, the suggestion wasn't random.
<TheLordOfTime> who gets the sponsoring purview, MOTU or the normal sponsors team?  since the nginx package is considered universe
<ScottK> There's only one sponsoring team.
<ScottK> For universe/main combined.
<ScottK> (subscribe ubuntu-sponsors and ubuntu-sru to the bug)
<TheLordOfTime> will do.  one last question, this always shows up...
<TheLordOfTime> how to resolve this: dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-source -b nginx-1.1.19 gave error exit status 255
<TheLordOfTime> erm
<TheLordOfTime> wrong line one sec
<TheLordOfTime> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address  <-- that
<TheLordOfTime> ... nevermind
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  should I subscribe both sponsors and SRU to the bug simultaneously, or should I wait for sponsors to handle the queuing of the upload first?
<ScottK> Both.
<TheLordOfTime> done :)
<TheLordOfTime> now if only my networking card were more stable
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-16
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> dholbach: "/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-packaging-guide-html/singlehtml/index.html does not have styling"Â â looks like a bug in dpkg,
<dholbach> oh yeah?
<mitya57> my changes make singlehtml/_images and _links be links to
<mitya57> ../{_static,_images}
<mitya57> the result is, when you install the new package, they are empty directories
<mitya57> purging and re-installing the package fixes that
<dholbach> hummmm
<dholbach> ^ anyone ever experienced anything like this?
<mitya57> the best thing I can do is revert all the packaging changes
<mitya57> they weren't really needed for the search to work
<dholbach> if that's easily possible and makes things work again, that might be useful
<dholbach> thanks also for the typo and code-styling fixes
<dholbach> it looks much better now than before
<Zhenech> dpkg link handling needs special care
<Zhenech> if you migrate from non-links to links
<mitya57> yes, that was the case
<mitya57> Zhenech: any documentation for what "special care" is needed?
<Zhenech> mitya57, short google didnt yield what I wanted and at work currently
<Zhenech> i bet you get good results in #debian-devel over in oftc :)
<mitya57> OK, will now upload my branches and ask that
<mitya57> dholbach: the new mp is at http://pad.lv/mps/ubuntu-packaging-guide
<dholbach> mitya57, great
<cjwatson> mitya57: dpkg will never replace a symlink with a directory or vice versa; if you want to do that then you must either remove the old symlink/directory in the preinst or fix up the state to what you want in the postinst
<cjwatson> This is an intentional safety feature
<mitya57> cjwatson: thanks, hm...
<mitya57> dholbach: are localized versions supposed to be in separate packages?
<dholbach> mitya57, yes
<dholbach> otherwise they will very likely get too big
<mitya57> dholbach: and will they depend on the non-localized one?
<dholbach> no - the html/pdf text is generated during the build
<mitya57> I mean that if they do depend, we can have one _static & _sources and link anything else there
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> maybe the -html* packages should depend on a new -common package
<dholbach> getting this right is not as easy as I thought
<dholbach> but still I think it's worth the effort
<mitya57> ok, so I'll wait until the localized packages are ready, and then try to do that using a way suggested by cjwatson
<dholbach> can you explain what you mean by "until the localized packages are ready"?
<mitya57> #LANGS = $(basename $(notdir $(wildcard $(PODIR)/*.po)))
<dholbach> ah yes of course
<dholbach> let me try something
<mitya57> :)
<mitya57> ah
<mitya57> there's one more problem with dh_sphinxdoc
<mitya57> it won't work well when there are two or more sphinx projects built
<mitya57> so let's not use it at all :)
<dholbach> ok, if we manually enable the languages in LANGS the -es packages look like they work
<dholbach> impressive work by the translators
<mitya57> though, we can mimic its behaviour by linking our {jquery,underscore,doctools,searchtools}.js files to the ones in libjs-sphinxdoc package
<dholbach> do you think you can file a bug for it?
<mitya57> I think I can do it :)
<mitya57> s/do/implement/
<mitya57> dholbach: btw, should the -epub package really depend on jquery & underscore?
<dholbach> mitya57, to be honest, I don't know
<mitya57> does asomething know?
<mitya57> hm, when trying to "make epub", I get 5 warnings
<mitya57> "WARNING: unknown mimetype for _static/*.js, ignoring"
<dholbach> hm
<mitya57> ah, it seems that epub is something like an archive with html/js/... inside
<mitya57> dholbach: lp:~mitya57/ubuntu-packaging-guide/use-libjs-sphinxdoc -- something like this
<mitya57> I don't have time to test that now, maybe will do that in the evening and propose the merge
<dholbach> ok, I'll have a look
<mitya57> dholbach: I'm back with a question: debian/rules uses $DEBIANDIR, but that's not defined for me
<mitya57> can I do s/$$DEBIANDIR/debian/ there?
<dholbach> mitya57, I don't know - I didn't write all of the code
<dholbach> and I will have to run for a call in a bit
<mitya57> I will do that â I think it's safe
<dholbach> mitya57, but I had noticed that you were missing a 'done' in your debian/rules snippet
<mitya57> dholbach: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu-packaging-guide/use-libjs-sphinxdoc/revision/184
<mitya57> "add a closing done"
<dholbach> perfect :)
<dholbach> as I said - I'll take a look at it later on
<jtaylor> universe is still open or?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> ffe vanishingly unlikely thoughj
<micahg> ajmitch: congrats on being reARBd
<ajmitch> micahg: lucky me?
<micahg> ajmitch: gives you an excuse why you're not uploading to the main archive :P
<iulian> ajmitch: Congratulations!
<ajmitch> micahg: yeah I'll run with that excuse
<ScottK> That and we aren't bumping boost versions, so nothing to do.
<ajmitch> sounds good to me, I'll head back to sleep
<micahg> ScottK: oh, are we staying with boost 1.49 for R?
<ScottK> I would assume so.
<ScottK> Generally getting ahead of Debian is a bad idea.
<ScottK> We should ship the newest that's packaged, but not make it the one we use in packages.
<ajmitch> & then generally run into co-installability problems if some library needs a newer version of boost
<ajmitch> it ends up a little bit of a mess, but that's to be expected
<ScottK> Much better than trying to fix stacks of FTBFS due to API/ABI changes in the newer boost.
<ScottK> xnox: ^^^ make sense to you?
<ajmitch> especially if it's updated after feature freeze :)
<ScottK> Sid has 1.50, so we should get that, but leave it in Universe.
<micahg> !info boost1.50 quantal
<ubottu> Package boost1.50 does not exist in quantal
<ajmitch> quick! get it synced! :)
<micahg> !info libboost1.50-dev quantal
<ubottu> libboost1.50-dev (source: boost1.50): Boost C++ Libraries development files. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.50.0-1 (quantal), package size 9141 kB, installed size 91274 kB
<ajmitch> ok, so it just doesn't show the source package
<ScottK>  boost1.50 |   1.50.0-1 | quantal/universe | source
<ScottK> So no change, really. (there's a -2 in Sid)
<micahg> looks like we'll get libav 9 in R
<ajmitch> how much breakage is there with that one?
<micahg> lots of internal APIs becoming private
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-17
<xnox> ScottK: ajmitch: 1.49 is kind of relatively easy, it was a double with gcc-4.7 & boost transition (e.g. can't transition cause ftbfs due to boost, or gcc-4.7 or both). BUT it was relatively easy as it was done / progressing in Debian at the same time.
<ScottK> Which is exactly why we don't want to be ahead of Debian.
<xnox> Doing it on our on.... only out of the archive. It almost took 3-4 months to do it.
<xnox> and there was synergy. Somehow I have more productive things to do than getting newer boost....
<ajmitch> for some reason noone actually enjoys it
<ScottK> ajmitch lies.  He enjoys it.  He just won't admit it.
<xnox> ajmitch: ScottK: it's actually good fun & a way to rank up uploads.... (remember I don't get to upload stacks of kde/gnome/etc)
 * ajmitch doesn't use C++ often enough to be able to solve problems that come up
 * xnox actually doesn't know C++ but I did do patching in C++ but it's mostly "monkey see, monkey do" & templates backtraces confuse the hell out of me.
<micahg> xnox: managed to get you ahead of ScottK
<xnox> micahg: ?! where
 * micahg :( that he's not in the top 50% of uploaders
<micahg> xnox: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-activity/
 * xnox ponders if that includes zillion of sync I did for logan
<ajmitch> I think it includes all syncs
<micahg> only personal ones, not sponsored ones AFAIK
<ajmitch> true
<micahg> xnox: logan is ahead of you :)
<xnox> micahg: ah so his syncs got credited properly then.
 * xnox didn't expect to rank that high up
 * ScottK didn't do that many uploads this cycle.
 * micahg guesses we're stuck with gcc-4.5 in universe :(
<shadeslayer> fun coincidence,
<shadeslayer> I was in the top 50 uploaders when I came to my first UDS :P
<shadeslayer> and I'm in the top 50 again and coming to UDS-R :D
<dholbach> good morning
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Quantal: Archive frozen until Quantal releases (SRU uploads to quantal-proposed OK) | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Small tasks: http://goo.gl/bSual
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-18
<ttilley> is there a version convention for extending native ubuntu packages elsewhere? like... native ubuntu packages have revision 0 plus ubuntu plus the ubuntu patch version. so if someone were to make a custom version of that package elsewhere, what would be a sane versioning system? 1.2.3-0ubuntu1.2 -> 1.2.3-1foo1.2 ?
<ttilley> i suppose that would be necessary to make the foo version take precedence
<ScottK> I wouldn't do it that way.
<ScottK> I'd do 1.2.3-0ubuntu1.2+foo1.
<ttilley> huh
<ttilley> (sorry for the delay)
<ttilley> ScottK: that's a valid version number? and ends up being greater?
<ttilley> that's kinda neat
<ScottK> Yes.
<ttilley> ScottK: what if you want the foo version to always win out? like if custom vendor functionality breaks without the extended package.
<ttilley> is there some pinning voodoo one might perform?
<ScottK> Then you might add an epoch at the start.  1:1.2.3-0ubuntu1.2+foo1, although you need to be very careful with epochs as you can't go back.
<ScottK> You could solve the problem with pinning.
 * ttilley had never heard of "epochs"
<ttilley> ScottK: thanks for the info btw =]
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<micahg> ttilley: it's usually best to pin, but you also want to keep an eye on the package so that if there's an update, you rebase your patch on top of it
<micahg> unneeded epochs are very frowned upon for public archives as they can interfere with upgrades for random people (privately, you can do what you want)
<lestus> why noone talking?
<lestus> no issues to discuss?
<ScottK> Not much.  For developers the time between the final freeze and release is usually (hopefully) quiet.
<lestus> Fair enough. :)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<tumbleweed> bdrung: can I upload distro-info-data to Debian as-is? The entry for jessie looks a little odd...
<geser> tumbleweed: does it include raring?
<tumbleweed> geser: that's why I'm asking, yes :)
<geser> btw: I'm looking for a sponsor for bug #1067993 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1067993 in vim (Ubuntu) "Add 'raring' to the lost of recognized Ubuntu release names" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1067993
 * tumbleweed wishes sabdfl didn't leave the names so late
<cjwatson> geser: after release ...
<cjwatson> it's too late for quantal now
<cjwatson> (and for an SRU, I'd want it in raring first)
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: you and me both
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: oh, right, I keep forgetting that we are cracking down on copying-up SRUs
<geser> cjwatson: ok
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what do you have against the jessie entry?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: the date probably isn't accurate, but I suppose it's better than nothing
<bdrung> tumbleweed: maybe its better to defer that date one year (so we raise the probability that wheezy is release before)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I don't know if there is any sane way of handling it
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the sane way would be to set the created day to infinity :)
<bdrung> or to change the data format
<tumbleweed> fortunately, the impact isn't as high as ubuntu releases
<tumbleweed> at any rate, we should upload something to sid and ask for an unblock
<bdrung> tumbleweed: upload done
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should we update the data in natty?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: naah. gonig out of support this month
<dholbach> any opinions on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/+bug/1067338?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1067338 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "Introduce -common package for all HTML-based documentation" [High,New]
<tumbleweed> are per-language binary packages actually worth it there?
<dholbach> tumbleweed, the .pdf for example is 500k already
<dholbach> so for every language you'll add another 500k
<dholbach> also 300k for HTML (160k for sources if you want it all searchable)
<dholbach> so roughly 500k per language per output flavour
<tumbleweed> dholbach: per-language packages for pdf makes sense, but for the HTML (which is where -common is applicable) I can't imagine it being much benefit
<tumbleweed> so yes, I guess doing it for the PDFs is understandable
<dholbach> tumbleweed, why not for html?
<dholbach> the -common thing would be just for static stuff like images, js+css
<tumbleweed> oh, does it have translated images?
<dholbach> not yet
<MCR1> dholbach: Hi :) I heard that hugging you 3 times makes magic happen ?
<dholbach> haha
 * MCR1 tries to hug dholbach virtually 3 times...
<tumbleweed> AFAIK it was the other way around. Making magic happen tends to result in hugs
<MCR1> No seriously: I need your help with bug 968112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 968112 in emerald (Ubuntu) "Emerald (the original Compiz Window Decorator) not available in Precise and Quantal, while it was working on all Ubuntu versions before [needs-packaging]" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968112
<dholbach> MCR1, who told you that? is there a howto somewhere on the net about this? :)
<MCR1> You can read that everywhere and even see it on youtube ;)
<dholbach> MCR1, the best option you have is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages to get it into the "raring" release
<MCR1> You have to take care of your privacy it seems ;)
<dholbach> MCR1, and then request a backport to P and Q (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports)
<MCR1> dholbach: I am willing to do work, but this package is just to good to be lost...
 * MCR1 is saving the links
<dholbach> I don't have an opinion on emerald, but that's at least the processes you need to follow :)
<MCR1> dholbach: Thx - you should try it - it has several features not available for any other window decorator out there ;)
<cjwatson> it was removed because it didn't build any more and nobody cared enough to fix it - bug 831111
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831111 in emerald (Fedora) "emerald version 0.8.8-0ubuntu1 failed to build in oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831111
<cjwatson> FWIW
<MCR1> cjwatson: This was fixed a long time ago ;)
<cjwatson> (don't bother telling me I should use it, I have pretty spartan tastes ;-) )
<dholbach> I'm probably not the best person to evaluate that - I was even happy with metacity or sawfish before :)
<cjwatson> sure, just saying
<MCR1> cjwatson: And the bug report I posted above contains detailed instructions on how to compile it on Precise and Quantal
<cjwatson> I know
<dholbach> MCR1, a working source package will be required for review - maybe you can test it in a ppa before
<cjwatson> I'm just giving the reason it was removed - we're getting increasingly strict on packages that have nobody botheering to take care of them
<cjwatson> *bothering
<MCR1> dholbach: Never made a PPA, but there is already one available containing it
<dholbach> ok
<MCR1> https://launchpad.net/~brainpower/+archive/testing/+build/3505578
<MCR1> https://launchpad.net/~brainpower/+archive/testing/+build/3505578/+files/emerald_0.9.5-0~precise2_amd64.deb
<Laney> if someone wants to take care of it then it's welcome to come back
<MCR1> Laney: :)
<MCR1> Thx 2 all 4 the help...
<yolanda> hi, i have to backport a package, what are the correct steps? just file the bug with requestbackport?
<geser> yes
<yolanda> geser, do i need to subscribe ubuntu backporters or something, or just leave it open?
<geser> have you a bug number to check?
<yolanda> geser, 1067725
<yolanda> i built the package and tested in precise myself
<tumbleweed> yolanda: now you just wait :)
<tumbleweed> (well, and prod some backporters if they don't seem to be doing anything)
<geser> yolanda: no assignment or bug subscription is needed as the bug is filed against the "Precise backports" project
<yolanda> tumbleweed, geser, ok, i'll wait :)
<yolanda> thx
<geser> the backports team works from the bug list for those backports projects
<Laney> oh to expand the backports team
<mitya57> hi dholbach (yet again)
<dholbach> hey mitya57
<mitya57> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/_static/searchtools.js returns 403 FORBIDDEN
<mitya57> this makes search not working on the server
<dholbach> oh wow
<mitya57> are you able to fix it?
<dholbach> no, but I can ask someone
<mitya57> thank you
<mitya57> and I've almost finished my branch for bug 1067338, now testing it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1067338 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "Introduce -common package for all HTML-based documentation" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1067338
<micahg> mitya57: I don't understand the point of this bug
<mitya57> micahg: the point that we can have stylesheets/images/sources in a separate package and not in every html package we build
<micahg> oh, I think I see now
<micahg> mitya57: wait, what do you mean by every html pacakge?
<mitya57> we are going to have localized packages for every language
<mitya57> that reaches some threshold
<mitya57> for now it's only spanish
<micahg> why not just have an l10n package than rather that one package per language
<mitya57> and there are also html and singlehtml variants within each package
 * micahg would think you'd want it translatable in launchpad as well, right?
<mitya57> micahg: I think the main reason is size
<mitya57> but I'm not the one who came up with this idea
<micahg> well, if you're doing .po files vs separate package per language, it should compress quite well
<micahg> .po files mean the HTML doesn't need repeating
<micahg> but idk if that works for documentation
<mitya57> I don't know a way to make a web page dynamically load a translation of itself from gettext...
<dholbach> micahg, no .po files
<mitya57> and that definitely won't work for PDFs
<dholbach> micahg, that's not how sphinx does it - it generates static html, pdfs
<dholbach> and per language per flavour (html, pdf, epub, etc.) we have 500k
<Laney> http://sphinx.pocoo.org/latest/intl.html
<tumbleweed> oh, dear. We missed another MOTU meeting
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: 12.10 released (SRU uploads to quantal-proposed open for business) | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Small tasks: http://goo.gl/bSual
<jtaylor> raring is already open? oO
<jtaylor> thats fast
<JontheEchidna> time to s/quantal/raring :P
<ScottK> No.
<jtaylor> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openscenegraph got an upload 15 min ago
<ScottK> Not open yet.
<jtaylor> but its noted as frozen :)
<ScottK> That's the archive copy happening.
<ScottK> Note it's the same version as in quantal.
<jtaylor> oh right
<cjwatson> jtaylor: it'll be a while before it's open; we're going to try to get britney working first
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-19
<Unit193> Well crap, cherokee isn't in quantal.
<micahg> Unit193: Deleted in quantal-release (Reason: (From Debian) ROM; RC-buggy for too long, maintainer no l...)
<Unit193> Yes sir, I've been waiting for the Debian bug to get fixed too. :P   (Read up before I made a comment)
<micahg> how far up do you want me to read :P
<Unit193> micahg: Sorry, I read up on why it wasn't in and saw https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/cherokee/1.2.101-1 and been following the debian one a while.
<Unit193> micahg: Hrm, will Ubuntu then only pull it in if Debian does?  And 13.04 at that?
<micahg> Unit193: yeah, unless some Ubuntu dev specifically wants it
<ScottK> If it gets into 13.04, it could be backported to 12.10/12.04.
<Unit193> Thank you, and sorry for the bother.
<ScottK> No bother.
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> Howdy.
<obounaim> Good morning
 * Laney stabs uupdate
<jtaylor> micahg: can you nominate 1027977 and 1036283 for precise please
<micahg> looking
<micahg> jtaylor: done
<jtaylor> thx
<ESphynx> Congrats on the release everyone =)
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> the new repositories will be open soon, and I am wondering were are the packages which need to be upgraded
<dupondje> Got some small question. Quantal builds libs in /usr/lib/<arch>/, but Precise in /usr/lib, any chance to make Precise also use the <arch> version. Something needed for that in control/rules?
<jtaylor> precise can also use <arch>
<jtaylor> and does, just less packages do so
<jtaylor> http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Implementation
<dupondje> jtaylor: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~freerdp-team/freerdp/freerdp-debian/files  don't see directly what i'm missing :s
<jtaylor> whats the problem?
<dupondje> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/120217128/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.freerdp_1.0.1-1.1ubuntu2.1freerdp1~1099%2B29~precise1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dupondje> fails to build on Precise (fine on Quantal)
<jtaylor> hm is that a botched merge?
<jtaylor> a no
<jtaylor> wait thats precise, why does it have multiarch changes?
<jtaylor> multiarch was only added in quantal
<micahg> jtaylor: for freerdp or in general?
<jtaylor> freerdp
<dupondje> jtaylor: its for daily builds, so that doesn't matter?
<jtaylor> so you want to backport?
<jtaylor> does precise's cmake handle multiarch with compat 9?
<jtaylor> if not you have to tell it where to put the libraries explicitly
<dupondje> cmake should known multiarch in Precise already
<jtaylor> there is something strange quantals package is compat 7 with no extra logic it shouldn'T be multiarched at all
<dupondje> I have no clue ... :)
<dupondje> so any ideas ?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-20
<dupondje> somebody around that could assist me with a multiarch weirdness on Precise? :)
<bobweaver> Hello there I am kinda embarrassed to ask this question but here it goes. When making a meta package is the only thing that I need to do is add the packages to the control file ? meaning that No makefile or any other building all I have to do is add packages name to debian/control and that is it. again sorry for the newbish question but I can not find any docs on meta packaging
<bobweaver> or does anyone know of a *SIMPLE* metapackage that I could tear open to look at how it is done ?
<bobweaver> thanks like always for your time.
<bobweaver> Like I found this  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MetaPackages   but i am confused still about how the package knows how to build
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: yes
<tumbleweed> dupondje: just how weird?
<bobweaver> The reason that I ask is because I figure that it would cut a couplke of my puppet scripts down if I make a package of all the programs that I need
<bobweaver> thanks again tumbleweed
<bobweaver> tumbleweed,  it is dh_ that is called when building packages in the rules file. how to change the order from my own version that I have. err. what I mean is I do not need to run dh_python or dh_perl  ect (dont know if they are for real) but where to find a list of dh_ stuff and the order that they go ?  some one told me once but I forgot
<bobweaver> Like I want to alter dh its self
<dupondje> tumbleweed: cmake not installing into multiarch lib dirs on Precise, but it works fine on Quantal
<dupondje> anyway, trying a fix now
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: it's fairly common to use dh to build your package. And yes, it calls all the debhelper commands in a sane order
<jmarsden> bobweaver: I think you can do   dh --no-act   to get a list of what dh_* things it would call in what order
<bobweaver> tumbleweed,  do you know where I can find the perl script that runs that order (I think it was perl )
<jtaylor> usr/bin/dh
<tumbleweed> and /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/
<bobweaver> Oh sweet thanks again you all are just awesome. BTW just got back from local release party was great !
<bobweaver> Yo Joey Hess is the Bomb! (still have not figured out debhelper (all the way)) But boy oh boy he had a major part in making deb packages work. He is everywhere in the source code
<bobweaver> is he ever around or does he go to UDS ?
<bobweaver> I am going to email him a Thanks you note :)
<tumbleweed> you'd find him at debconf, not UDS
<bobweaver> he is awesome !
<bobweaver> oh no !
<bobweaver> !bug 255417
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255417 in Launchpad itself "Launchpad claims Debian developers maintain Ubuntu packages and have uploaded packages to PPAs (when they have not)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255417
<bobweaver> jezz now thta I am tracking down joey email I am also tempted to write Anthony Towns
<ScottK> dupondje: There are packages in precise that are multi-arched and use CMake (IIRC phonon is an example, but that may be QMake).
<ScottK> So you ought to be able to find examples.
<jtaylor> ScottK: the issue is that for some reason the freerdp package in quantal puts its stuff in multiarch directories
<jtaylor> but the same package does not do so in precise
<ScottK> Was it multiarch'ed in precise?
<jtaylor> no, and it also shouldn't be in quantal
<jtaylor> at least to my understanding
<jtaylor> its compat 7
<ScottK> Things can be multiarched without bumping compat.
<ScottK> It just takes doing it more by hand.
<jtaylor> there is nothing in rules
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Dunno then.
<jtaylor> me neither, apparently cmake/dh in quantal decided to use m-a settings also for compat 7 (or maybe even always)
<jtaylor> or I'm missing some setting hidden somewhere
<jtaylor> dupondje: to solve your issue quickly, just revert the ma-a locations patch for precise
<jtaylor> it probably works better that way anyway
<bobweaver> could some one explain  equivs-control I am lost on the pipe| in the control file in the Depends stanza < wrong word maybe
<dupondje> jtaylor: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~freerdp-team/freerdp/freerdp-debian/revision/30
<dupondje> this fixed it :)
<bobweaver> in the Depends field of the the package stanza . still could be wrong *
<bobweaver> equivs = fancy name for meta package . er I am so lost with this http://linux.about.com/cs/linux101/g/equivs.htm   and then this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MetaPackages    It is the last line that is confusing me. "Note: In the control_file template from equivs-control control_file, conditional-OR-dependencies in "Depends:" <bold>are separated by '|', not a comma. </bold>For example an ubuntu-minimal dependency statement would be
<bobweaver> :"   then I see a glance of a control file and I see pipes in there. Is it not better to have whitespace (easy to read)? It is the | and the , I know that the comma does but the pipe I am confused as to what that does. It is just something that I have never came across.
<bobweaver> I dont know what "equivs" means
<ScottK> It doesn't help in this case.
<ScottK> Think of "|" as alternates.
<ScottK> Depends on X | Y is X or Y.
<ScottK> X, Y is X and Y
<ScottK> X, Y | Z is X and (Y or Z).
<ScottK> Does that help?
<bobweaver> Yes like reg ex
<ScottK> Sort of.
<bobweaver> [Dd]og , like that dog or Dog ?
<bobweaver> basicly it is a if statement ?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> It's more boolean than if.
<bobweaver> thanks ScottK  can I use it in whitespace ? I will paste example plz hold
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1293567/
<bobweaver> just so my control file is easier to read. Thanks again
<ScottK> I think either is fine, but the first one is more readable.
<ScottK> There's a scripts called wrap-and-sort (or similar) in ubuntu-dev-tools that would organize things for you.
<bobweaver> Thanks ScottK  :) that is it I understand that full page. I would really Like to thank you all
<bobweaver> What what what
<bobweaver> wrap-and-sort will make whitespace ?
 * bobweaver googleing wrap-and-sort 
<ScottK> No need for google.  Install the ubuntu-dev-tools package.
<ScottK> bdrung: ^^^
<bdrung> bobweaver: install devscripts (or packaging-dev if you want a full-blown packaging environment)
<bobweaver> it is installed
<bdrung> ScottK: it used to be in ubuntu-dev-tools, but was moved to devscripts
<bobweaver> I have installed that metapackage I should look at the control file to see what it installed
<ScottK> oh
<bobweaver> each one I am sure that it is installed packaing dev and devscripts
<bdrung> packaging-dev pulls in devscripts
<bobweaver> Just did not know about it. It is flipping great Oo man pages atm. great stuff kinda like a real long ctrl+i in qtcreator
<bdrung> bobweaver: i once presented wrap-and-sort at UDS
<bobweaver> bdrung,  I see that at the bottom of the page or at least that you are author
<bobweaver> v.cool can wait to look at src
<bobweaver> can't *
<bdrung> bobweaver: yes. hint: look at the maintainer of packaging-dev ;)
<bobweaver> I can not wait to meet some of you all at uds < week away. I hope to learn great stuff like wrap-and-sort to make my packages nice and yet faster
<bobweaver> just did not know and it is cool thanks again. :)
<bdrung> i will be at UDS. thanks to canonical. \o/
 * bobweaver also 
<bobweaver> for his Ubuntu TV work
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfrm117Ukr0&webm=1    === "bobweaver"
 * Rcart dreams to be at uds someday
<bobweaver> I am mainly C++ QT QML (I love qml) python web stuff dev
<bobweaver> but I am v.new to Linux < 2 yrs
<bobweaver> feb 2013 is 2 yrs for me
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-21
<azbyin> hi all
<azbyin> can someone test something for me? I believe there is a bug in 'du' from coreutils
<azbyin> either that or the behaviour was changed for some odd reason after the version available in 11.10
<mitya57> azbyin: please describe your problem
<azbyin> du -hs * .        in a directory filled with stuff shows a wrong size for .
<azbyin> all the sizes reported for stuff matching the * glob is fine. just that the summary for the . dir is some weird number
<azbyin> i cannot figure out where this number comes from
<azbyin> i noticed the issue here on my laptop when i backed up everything from 11.10 and wiped and installed 12.10 now
<azbyin> i also ssh'd into my work machine which runs 12.04 and it has the same issue
<azbyin> i will post a sample on pastebin
<azbyin> mitya57, http://pastebin.com/hDYGEpAs
<azbyin> note that simply running 'du -hs' gets the right size for the directory.
<alo21> hi. What is the process to upgrade a package? I mean where should I tell that I am working on it and etc... ?
<mitya57> azbyin: du -hs * . shows total size of files in a directory EXCLUDING sub-directories
<azbyin> so you reckon i have 291M of files in my home dir?
<azbyin> lol
<mitya57> azbyin: here is my small test:
<azbyin> mitya57, http://pastebin.com/gUXWNJ5s  updated paste
<mitya57> azbyin: yes, I think so. also, if you sum everything in "du -hs * .", you'll get 19G
<azbyin> see that there are *no* files in the dir and collectively all the .[a-z] files/dirs do *not* add up to 291M
<azbyin> mitya57, mind explaining why the output is different then in 11.10?
<alo21> I cannot find all the info online. (may be because I am not good on googleing)
<azbyin> i have this dir in an external usb partition formatted as ext3.
<azbyin> and running du -hs * .  within the dir in 11.10 shows the correct summary size for the entirety of .
<mitya57> azbyin: please report a bug
<mitya57> or maybe it's bug 1004319
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004319 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "du -s show a wrong directory size" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004319
<mitya57> alo21: nothing different from usual process
<azbyin> exactly this bug!!
<mitya57> alo21: clone lp:ubuntu/packagename, upgrade the package, submit a merge proposal
<azbyin> i see there was some change in coreutils upstream with respect to du
<alo21> mitya57: Have I tell to somebody that I am upgrading it, to avoid double work?
<azbyin> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/c/coreutils/coreutils_8.13-3.2ubuntu2/changelog    search for du and it shows:     coreutils (8.13-1) unstable; urgency=low
<azbyin>   * New upstream version
<azbyin>     - du ignores specified dir when part of cycle (Closes: #598438)
<mitya57> debian bug 598438
<ubottu> Debian bug 598438 in coreutils "coreutils: new du corrupted filesystem warning breaks scripts" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/598438
<azbyin> sorry for the paste here, but it might have to do with this "fix" that introduced the regression
<azbyin> mitya57, please dont be discouraged by the "corrupted" word in the bug report
<azbyin> the original report was simply that du reported errors on fs with error and this broke scripts
<azbyin> but the fix obviously has changed the way du operates internally. so i assume this is the one that iontroduced the regression
<mitya57> alo21: if the package has an Ubuntu maintainer, you may want to contact it first
<azbyin> now i want to make a good and simple testcase using dd so i can demonstrate the bug
<mitya57> alo21: what's the package, by the way?
<mitya57> s/it/him/
<alo21> mitya57: no one in particular. I really would be part 13.04's development
<azbyin> s/it/him\/her/ :)
<mitya57> :)
<mitya57> alo21: you can also file a bug and tag it with upgrade-software-version
<alo21> mitya57: but in the meantime I am a little bit afraid to make some mistakes.
<mitya57> alo21: don't worry, usually there's enough time during the development cycle to find bugs :)
<alo21> mitya57: what do you mean with 'find bugs'?
<mitya57> I mean, if you break something, someone will notice it.
<alo21> ah, ok. Thanks a lot!
<alo21> mitya57: can I start now on upgrading package for 13.04?
<mitya57> alo21: the archive is not opened yet, but it should open next week
<mitya57> alo21: but you can already start working on the branch, of course
<alo21> mitya57: for example here (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-chewing/+bug/1069245) if I would upgrade this package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1069245 in ibus-chewing (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to ibus-chewing to 1.4.2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alo21> I have to assigne this bug to me, upgrade it and then create a personal branch?
<alo21> assuming that I have spoken with the maintainer yet
<mitya57> alo21: that package comes unchanged from debian, it would be good to update it there
<mitya57> you can still use bzr, but then export your changes to a patch and submit to debian bug 691076
<ubottu> Debian bug 691076 in ibus-chewing "ibus-chewing: Upgrade to ibus-chewing to 1.4.2" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/691076
<alo21> mitya57: make a request to debian?
<mitya57> alo21: there already is a bug ^^
<mitya57> you can just submit a debdiff there
<hyperair> great, so quantal's compiz decides to ignore all prior customization and just start afresh? very nice.
<alo21> mitya57: to create a debdiff I should have at least two debian packages... One is the source from debian, the other is from Ubuntu. Right?
<mitya57> alo21: no, you may create a debdiff between current and new ubuntu versions
<mitya57> you can either use "debdiff" command or "bzr diff" if you prefer
<arand> Well, debdiffs are between two debian packages, doesn't matter what distribution they are from...
<alo21> arand: ok
<alo21> arand: when I am working on a package have assigne the bug to me?
<arand> I don't know the formalities around assignment, but there's never a *requirement* to assign yourself, afaik.
<geser> I usually only assign to myself when it takes some time (days) or when I expect a clash with someone else working on it too (to prevent double work)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-14
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-15
<ScottK> LoganCloud:  (assuming you're Logan Rosen), since libmime-tool-perl doesn't seem to exist, how does your ddtc sync help things?
<dholbach> good morning
<ockham> there's a bug in gourmet 0.16.1-1 (which is in saucy, and for which i'm upstream), and which partly breaks the schema migration (i.e. of the nutritional information plugin) from previous versions, see https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1332916
<ockham> i've fixed it upstream, see https://github.com/thinkle/gourmet/commit/7f1aa6fbe0bedc1ba82c220c7b437260ec422434
<ockham> can i still get this into saucy?
<ockham> or only as an SRU?
<mdeslaur> ockham: I think it can go in today. Is there a bug for it?
<ockham> not yet.
<ockham> should i open one?
<mdeslaur> ockham: if you open a bug and add a link to the patch, I can try and sneak it in
<ockham> cool. i'll open one.
<ockham> mdeslaur: filed #1240120
<ockham> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gourmet/+bug/1240120
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1240120 in gourmet (Ubuntu) "Typo breaks nutritional information plugin schema upgrade" [Undecided,New]
<mdeslaur> ockham: ok, I'll upload it in a few minutes, thanks
<ockham> mdeslaur: great, thx!
<mdeslaur> ockham: np, thanks!
<mdeslaur> ockham: gourmet patch is in the saucy archive now. thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-16
<marcofloriano> Good morning! Is it working ?
<dholbach> good morning
<porthose> how do I find out who owns this public key 4B2B2B9E?
<stgraber> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x4B2B2B9E&fingerprint=on
<porthose> stgraber, thx :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-17
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Saucy released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
<jtaylor> mh the arm64 compiler is not very robust
<jtaylor> two of my packages create ICE, I guess I don't really need to care (yet)?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-18
<cjwatson> jtaylor: It's not the arm64 compiler, it's the machines it's running on
<cjwatson> jtaylor: birch usually does better
<cjwatson> jtaylor: And indeed, you don't need to massively care yet ...
<cjwatson> jtaylor: Until we have more reliable machines across the board, we're just bulk-retrying that kind of thing
<xevwork> ScottK, Laney, tumbleweed: I'm looking at a discussion you had in April 2012 regarding pbuilder and "Distribution data outdated." Here's the transcript: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/26/%23ubuntu-motu.txt
<xevwork> ScottK, Laney, tumbleweed: I use cowbuilder-dist on precise and it just recently stopped working.
<tumbleweed> xevwork: bug 1241673
<ubottu> bug 1241673 in distro-info-data (Ubuntu Saucy) "Add Trusty to distro-info-data" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241673
<ScottK> xevwork: I stand by my comment that the distro-info design is broken.
<xevwork> Well, I certainly wasn't expecting new releases to break pbuilder.
<tumbleweed> yeah, you have to use it very carefully, to not crash when we don't have a current name
<tumbleweed> ScottK: minor improvements in design would help a lot
<xevwork> Is there a workaround I can put in place to get my package builds working again?
<tumbleweed> xevwork: what release are you on?
<xevwork> This is on precise.
<tumbleweed> xevwork: there should be a new version of distro-info-data published in precise-proposed, in a few minutes
<tumbleweed> I just uploaded it, waiting for it to be approved
 * ScottK is processing the SRUs now.
<tumbleweed> thanks ScottK
<xevwork> Excellent. Thanks!
<ScottK> tumbleweed: You forgot the maintainer change in precise.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: it was already done
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> That's what I get for looking at diffs.  Thanks.
<tumbleweed> :)
<tumbleweed> xevwork: you should see a deb here soon https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/distro-info-data/0.8ubuntu0.5/+build/5114419
<tumbleweed> there, built
<tumbleweed> ScottK: I'll verify those when they're published
<xevwork> tumbleweed: Thanks a lot! I'll test it after I have some lunch.
<xevwork> tumbleweed: I just verified that it fixed the issue for me and commented on the ticket.
<tumbleweed> thanks
<xevwork> Thank you guys. That was a swift resolution.
<xevwork> Judging by what I read, it seems like this has been a recurring issue.
<xevwork> I'll poke through the code and see if I can come up with ideas for how to improve the system.
<tumbleweed> yes. distro-info assumed that we'd know release names in advance
<tumbleweed> that was true once upon a time, but sabdfl seems a bit busy, these days
<xevwork> What was true once upon a time?
<xevwork> Is there any high level documentation of the whole system and any interactions that may not be obvious?
<tumbleweed> I think the things required are:
<tumbleweed> add an optional parameter like outofdate='stale' (defaulting to 'error')
<tumbleweed> teach distro-info about the new 'devel' symlink
<xevwork> I'll see if I have some time to check it out this weekend. Probably won't be until next weekend, though.
<tumbleweed> add a function that'll tell you if a release is stable / devel, so that one doesn't need things like https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/view/head:/pbuilder-dist#L292
<tumbleweed> for your case of pbuilder, it's already fixed by adding that try...except, but that's a bit ick
<ScottK> tumbleweed: It's broken that building for an existing release that distro-info knows all about is at all affected by the lack of a devel release.
<xnox> Laney: the transition tracker's go and the mirror bits need to learn about trusty.
<xnox> =)
<xnox> i'd commit to update it, but those scripts are not part of the branch it seems.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: we fixed that post precise
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Then let's fix it for precise too.  Once the current SRU is in, I'd accept such a change for a subsequent SRU.
<ScottK> It still raises a warning, which is nonesense, but it less harmful than it was before.
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's due to a poor API
<stgraber> I: 01launchpad-chroot: [saucy-armhf-sbuild] Processing config
<stgraber> I: 01launchpad-chroot: [saucy-armhf-sbuild] Downloading new Launchpad chroot.
<stgraber> ^ love that hook! Looking forward to pushing a package version of it to trusty
<stgraber> (sbuild hook that makes it use Launchpad chroots instead of a locally debootstrapped chroot, the package also contains apw's hook to support the various combinations of pockets and components)
<stgraber> pretty much as close to a LP build as you can get locally
<tumbleweed> stgraber: hrm, that sounds useful
<tumbleweed> except for downloading massive chroots, that sonuds painful
<stgraber> tumbleweed: well, it only re-downloads if it changed which doesn't happen terribly often
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-19
<sicness> Hi. I found a bug during ubuntu 13.10 installation. Where I should file the bug?
<jpds> sicness: ubiquity.
<sicness> jpds, yes, I have found already :)
<sicness> thx
<Laney> xnox: yeah, there's other things too
<Laney> isn't the tracker on NRCP?
<damon> Has anyone else noticed a bug in pygtk programs on 13.10 where the filechooser_button_selection event is not being triggered? I apologize for not being able to search online due to a very slow connection at the moment!
<lenios> hey there
<lenios> i need someone to review a new package : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dooble/+bug/1239455
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1239455 in dooble (Ubuntu) "upgrade-software-version dooble to 1.45" [Undecided,New]
<lenios> upstream is now distributing the new .deb through their website, but that needs to be in ubuntu repos
<xnox> Laney: there is a wiki page, not sure what's done or not. I did propose change for udd, but i don't know if release branches are set up or not. If yes, we can pull udd branches and restart udd.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-20
<mfisch> Is trusty open?
<stgraber> no
<Noskcaj> Is it safe to start merging stuff yet?
<rbasak> Noskcaj: no: #ubuntu-release's topic says that the archive is still frozen (not yet opened)
<Noskcaj> rbasak, ok.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-15
<dholbach> good morning
<sunweaver> stgraber: xnox: hi!
<sunweaver> I would love to become a MOTU to support the Ubuntu MATE Remix people with possible uploads.
<sunweaver> I am the original maintainer of the MATE desktop in Debian (and a DD).
 * sunweaver has read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted, so I getting started with all the technical stuff that is non-Debian.
<mitya57> sunweaver: If you are a DD, you can use a simplified procedure to get upload rights for a set of packages
<mitya57> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess#Debian_Developers_applying_for_Per-Package_upload_rights
<sunweaver> mitya57: ah, right!
<sunweaver> will check that out...
 * sunweaver is finding out what "PPU" stands for...
<geser> Per-Package Upload (rights)
<geser> sunweaver: it's similar to the DM status in Debian (who can upload a certain set of packages)
<sunweaver> geser: thanks!
<Laney> This process only applies after you've been approved by the DMB at an IRC meeting once, mind you
<Laney> The simplified DD thing
<sunweaver> Laney: is there a regular schedule for such meetings?
<sunweaver> I guess I need to mail to devel-permissions@lists.ubuntu.com to get that started, right?
<Laney> sunweaver: Scroll up on the ApplicationProcess page, the procedure is there
<Laney> Noskcaj: FYI, I edited the DMB agenda to put you on 2014-11-03 as that's 1900
<sunweaver> Laney: found it.
<sunweaver> Working through the task list...
<Laney> Create wiki page, (gather sponsors), mail devel-permissions, edit Agenda, turn up to meeting
<sunweaver> mitya57: about the endorsements...
<sunweaver> here this wiki page now... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeGabriel/DeveloperApplication
<sunweaver> but, I am not sure if I know that many Ubuntu developers...
<sunweaver> I know Debian developers that know my work in Debian, but in Ubuntu... well...
<sunweaver> is it ok, to ask for endorsment via ubuntu-motu ML?
<sunweaver> (and here?)
<geser> have any Ubuntu devs sponsored some uploads for you yet?
<sunweaver> geser: no. I am a DD and maintain over 100 packages.
<sunweaver> the Ubuntu MATE team uses "my" packages for providing MATE to Ubuntu.
<sunweaver> with siretart I have worked on creating the X2Go packages on http://launchpad.net/~x2go
<sunweaver> so, there is packaging experience (quite a good bit, I guess), but no concrete Ubuntu upload.
<sunweaver> I package CDBS and DH alike, work with several teams in Debian (pkg-javascript, Debian Edu, pkg-mate-team, pkg-perl, DPMT, PAPT, etc.)
<geser> I'd suggest to ask your sponsors about endorsements but without sponsors it could get a little bit difficult
<sunweaver> hehehe...
<sunweaver> tricky, ain't it... ;-)
<sunweaver> I pinged several people on other IRC channels and via mail, so let's see... But nobody sponsored uploads, so far.
<sunweaver> I use Debian unstable to work for Ubuntu...
<geser> the DMB probably will ask you about the Ubuntu specifics like timeframes (like till when it's possible to upload new upstream release or when not upload during freezes (and how you can find out if your packages are affected), etc)
<sunweaver> yeah, right.
<sunweaver> I have to check those documents, still.
<sunweaver> But that is release policy related, not related to the packages themselves.
<geser> no, the DMB usually looks for both: release policy knowledge (the basics) and packaging skills (being a DD helps skip this)
<sunweaver> is there a document that tackles just that? Debian Developer -> Ubuntu Developer? Umbloated without the "beginners" stuff.
<sunweaver> geser: understood.
<sunweaver> The basics I guess I know from using and working with Ubuntu and Launchpad, but I will better check the details before someone asking such questions.
<geser> perhaps https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers has also some helpful info for you
<sunweaver> hey, that one looks good.
<sunweaver> taking it with me for the coffee break!
<sunweaver> bbl...
<rbasak> sunweaver: it might be worth following each link in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> sunweaver: as well as the Ubuntu release schedule, there's also the general policy covering what we do and don't want to put into the Ubuntu delta, pushing changes back to Debian and/or upstream, what to do when syncing and merging packages, etc.
<rbasak> I don't think the documentation is very good unfortunately.
<sunweaver> rbasak: awesome. Thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-16
<vincent_c> sunweaver: thanks for asking what I myself wanted to ask as well ;)
<obounaim> Good morning everybody.
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> Good morning dholbach!
<dholbach> hi mitya57
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-17
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-12
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Even though I'm working currently under my name, both in Debian and paid work, I still hesitate to change to my name on linkedin and xing â¦
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-13
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> (why did I write this here, that should have gone to a different channel  xD)
<Unit193> Was wondering, seemed like no context. :)
<Rhonda> What, me being me is not enough context for you?  You don't know me at all then. ;)
<Unit193> Noooope, just poked you a couple times.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-14
<dholbach> good morning
<andriibilorus> Hi. Can I ask here the question regarding fixing bug with bzr?
<andriibilorus> is here right place for that?
<thebwt> andriibilorus: unlikely
<thebwt> have you tried #bzr?
<andriibilorus> Not yet. I've got "Packaging branch status: OUT-OF-DATE" message while 'bzr branch' process. Thanks for advice, I'll try #bzr.
<thebwt> no sweat
<Logan> andriibilorus: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<Logan> whatever bug is causing the package you're working with to not be imported probably won't be fixed any time soon
<Logan> so I'd just pull-lp-source <package> <version>
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-15
<Unit193> micahg: Re: ping.  'sword' had a bad gcc5 migration in wily, leaving 'xiphos' and likely any other rdepends segfaulting on startup.  For a proper fix it'd be good to sync it then rebuild rdeps (should be 2 or 3), but "good enough this close to release" would be just to rebuild rdeps (LP: #1506627)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1506627 in xiphos (Ubuntu) "Xiphos segfaults on ubuntu 15.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1506627
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-16
<Legendario> can someone tell me why Openswan has packages only for LTS versions? http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=openswan&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<Legendario> can someone tell me why Openswan has packages only for LTS versions? http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=openswan&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<micahg> Unit193: I can have a look this weekend, please ping if you don't see something by Sunday
<Unit193> OK, will do, thanks.
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-18
<sladen> ah
<sladen> meh
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-19
<fnatter> hello MOTU people
<fnatter> I am Debian package maintainer and having a problem with knopflerfish-osgi in Ubuntu 16.10
<fnatter> could I discuss this here or shall I write to the mailing list?
<jtaylor> what is the problem?
<fnatter> version 5.2.0-1 is broken; thus, freeplane won't start with this version
<fnatter> 5.2.0-2 fixes this and has hit Debian testing
<fnatter> now I would like to get knopflerfish-osgi 5.2.0-2 into Ubuntu 16.10: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/knopflerfish-osgi/+bug/1634241
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1634241 in knopflerfish-osgi (Ubuntu) "Sync knopflerfish-osgi 5.2.0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<fnatter> but I guess the sync is not easy, probably due to this dependency: libasm-java (>= 5.0)
<fnatter> I think it _should_ work, since libasm-java (>= 5.0) is in Ubuntu 16.10:
<fnatter> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libasm-java&searchon=names&suite=yakkety&section=all
<rbasak> fnatter: what the diff between -1 and -2?
<fnatter> fixes a bug where r-deps won't start
<fnatter> (plus a bit of clean up)
<rbasak> Clean up isn't generally allowed in a stable release.
<rbasak> A cherry-pick to fix a bug is fine, as long it is unlikely to break existing users.
<rbasak> So it depends on exactly what you want to do to the package in 16.10 to fix it.
<rbasak> I'd like to know what diff you are proposing to fix it, since then I can help with whether it can be updated and how to update it.
<fnatter> well, the current version is completely broken: AFAIK no r-dep works with it
<fnatter> the issue with 5.2.0-1 was that an "exports" file was not generated
<fnatter> and fixing this requires the changes that are in 5.2.0-2
<rbasak> Sure and that suggests the regression risk is low or nonexistent. But I'd still like to see the proposed diff.
<rbasak> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for the full policy, rationale and procedure. If you want, you can just follow that.
<fnatter> how can I create a diff
<fnatter> ?
<rbasak> An update to one package can break other packages in the archive, so that's why a blanket "yes, that's fine" doesn't work.
<fnatter> alternatively, we could revert to 5.1.0
<rbasak> Use the debdiff command against the dscs.
<rbasak> Reverting is fine, but that's still a diff since the version number goes forwards.
<fnatter> I can get a dsc for 5.2.0-2 using apt-get source, but how can I get the dsc for 5.2.0-1 ?
<fnatter> I've got it
<fnatter> https://paste.debian.net/884038/
<fnatter> (the above is the debdiff)
<rbasak> Which part of that is actually needed to fix the problem? It's quite big to review for a stable release. It would be easier if you could make a minimal diff that fixes the problem.
<rbasak> None of that looks unreasonable to put in a stable release though.
<rbasak> It'll just be smoother if you could make it minimal.
<fnatter> the problem is that we need to run the genexports target in order to get the missing "exports" file. and the ASM compat patch is needed to avoid the ASM3 dependency
<fnatter> it would prefer to use the patch as is :-)
<fnatter> s/it/I
<rbasak> Is there a bug for "it's broken"? If not, can you create one?
<rbasak> Then follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<rbasak> Don't worry too much about not having it fixed in Z yet, since Z isn't open for development yet - just explain that it's fixed in 5.2.0-2 in the bug.
<rbasak> The version number will need to be 5.2.0-1.1 for an upload to Yakkety.
<rbasak> So if you need sponsorship please attach a debdiff to the bug based on 5.2.0-1 that fixes what you need and adds an entry of 5.2.0-1.1 to the changelog.
<fnatter> there is a bug against freeplane which states the it's broken due to knopflerfish update: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freeplane/+bug/1631361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631361 in freeplane (Ubuntu) "fails to start in ubuntu 16.10 amd64." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rbasak> OK we can use that bug, thanks
<rbasak> I've added a Yakkety task in the bug for you.
<rbasak> You don't really need bug 1634241 then - it'll auto-sync when the autosyncer is turned on for Z.
<ubottu> bug 1634241 in knopflerfish-osgi (Ubuntu) "Sync knopflerfish-osgi 5.2.0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634241
<fnatter> what is Z?
<rbasak> It'll auto-sync to Z, that is.
<rbasak> The new development release - Zesty Zapus.
<fnatter> what is that yakkety task?
<rbasak> It tracks the status of fixing this bug in Yakkety.
<rbasak> Step 4 of the procedure.
<fnatter> step 3: shall I enter this information in the freeplane bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freeplane/+bug/1631361) ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631361 in freeplane (Ubuntu) "fails to start in ubuntu 16.10 amd64." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rbasak> OH, wait.
<rbasak> It's freeplane that's broken, but knopflerfish-osgi that needs the fix?
<fnatter> yes
<rbasak> Then what other rdeps are there of knopflerfish-osgi that might be affected?
<rbasak> Sorry, I didn't understand that before.
<rbasak> I added knopflerfish-osgi tasks to the bug.
<rbasak> If there are other rdeps then they need to be considered wrt. your proposed patch.
<rbasak> The process is still the same, we just need to take care to not break users, and you need to document that in the bug.
<rbasak> Just follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates carefully.
<fnatter> look like there is only libwoodstox-java
<fnatter> (r-depends)
<fnatter> to which bug did you add knopflerfish-osgi tasks?
<rbasak> To bug 1631361, because it's the same underlying issue that affects both packages.
<ubottu> bug 1631361 in freeplane (Ubuntu) "fails to start in ubuntu 16.10 amd64." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631361
<fnatter> so I shall continue with the knopflerfish-osgi (Ubuntu)->yaketty task and ignore the freeplane (Ubuntu)->yaketty task?
<rbasak> Yes. When freeplane in Yakkety works again, you can mark the freeplane task Fix Released.
<fnatter> so https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/knopflerfish-osgi/+bug/1631361 is the bug that is described in step 3?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631361 in freeplane (Ubuntu) "fails to start in ubuntu 16.10 amd64." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<fnatter> rbasak: can you give me your email address so that we can finish this tomorrow ?
<fnatter> need to get up early tomorrow...
<fnatter> please contact me at fnatter@gmx.net. many thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-22
<fnatter> hello ubuntu-motu!
<fnatter> freeplane in Ubuntu 16.10 is broken due to a broken knopflerfish-osgi 5.2.0-1
<fnatter>   update
<fnatter> the fix is to sync knopflerfish-osgi 5.2.0-2 (as 5.2.0-1.1) to Ubuntu 16.10
<fnatter> rbasak told be to create a SRU for this
<fnatter> I have read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<fnatter> rbasak: could you help me create the request/report?
<fnatter> (continuing our discussion for Wednesday)
<fnatter> all: is rbasak even online?
<rbasak> fnatter: it's my weekend! I suggest you ask your questions here, and somebody (maybe me) will be able to answer them directly. People don't usually volunteer to answer questions before they know what they are.
<fnatter> hi rbasak, it's my weekend too ;-)
<fnatter> Which bug shall I populate with my info (Impact / Test Case / Regression Potential, debdiff)?
<fnatter> the SRU documentation (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates) assumes that I am a Ubuntu developer, but I am only Debian package maintainer
<fnatter> there are two bugs / sub-bugs (tasks?) here:
<fnatter> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freeplane/+bug/1631361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631361 in knopflerfish-osgi (Ubuntu Yakkety) "fails to start in ubuntu 16.10 amd64." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rbasak> fnatter: populate the bug description. A bug has two tasks, but only one description, so you don't need to pick.
<rbasak> (this bug, that is)
<fnatter> ok, but are you sure to update LP:1631361, even if the problem must be fixed in knopflerfish-osgi?
<rbasak> Yes. That's why we have multiple tasks in one bug. One root cause per bug, even if it affects multiple packages.
<rbasak> And even if it needs different code changes in different packages, even though that's not the case here.
<fnatter> and I shall write in prose about the plan for an SRU, along with Impact / Test Case / Regression Potential, debdiff (attached), proposed changelog entry?
<rbasak> Yes please. Also this is a little complex, because the impact is to freeplane users but the fix is in knoplerfish-osgi. So do explain that. You'll need to talk about the regression potential for other users of both freeplane (presumably nil as it's completely broken) and knoplerfish-osgi (any direct users of that package, as well as reverse dependencies).
<rbasak> The proposed changelog entry should be part of the debdiff.
<fnatter> I create a debdiff between two _existing_ versions of knopflerfish-osgi in Debian. In that case I would have to manipulate the package which would be confusing. I will explain that in the bug, and include the changelog entry in the text.
<fnatter> one more question: Is this proposed changelog entry ok?
<fnatter> https://paste.debian.net/887503/
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-23
<OSryx> Hi
<OSryx> please what do the 'motu" stands for ?
<OSryx> in the channel name
<fnatter> hello #ubuntu-motu!
<fnatter> continuing the discussion from yesterday
<fnatter> freeplane in Ubuntu 16.10 is broken due to a broken knopflerfish-osgi 5.2.0-1 update
<fnatter> hence I would like to propose a SRU with the Debian change from knopflerfish-osgi-5.2.0-1 to 5.2.0-2
<fnatter> https://paste.debian.net/888874/
<fnatter> could someone please check the changelog entry (paste above)?
<fnatter> I am away for a few hours. Please post the reply here (or write to fnatter@gmx.net). Thank you!
<fnatter> Since there were no responses, I uploaded the debdiff with the proposed changelog:
<fnatter> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freeplane/+bug/1631361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631361 in knopflerfish-osgi (Ubuntu Yakkety) "fails to start in ubuntu 16.10 amd64." [Undecided,Confirmed]
