#ubuntu-artwork 2005-08-29
<piras1> ping
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-08-31
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+nt]  by ubuntulog
<lllmanulll> Hey there, I'm interested in becoming a member of the Art Team :)
<lllmanulll> Just added my name on the main wiki page's list
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-02
<HiddenWolf> hey, look, a crowd!
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-03
<klepas> anyone home?
<bonvenon> klepas: no, it seems to be rather dead in here
<klepas> aww
<klepas> do you know what happened to the art team as of late?
<bonvenon> no. I don't
<bonvenon> are you involved in the art work in some way?
<klepas> any advice to a newcomer to the project who would like to apply my skills?
<klepas> not as of yet
<klepas> but I sure would like to
<bonvenon> same here ;)
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> have a site with some examples on it?
<bonvenon> not really.
<bonvenon> how about you?
<klepas> that's alright
<klepas> yea - m' personal site (blog and whatnot)
<klepas> interested?
<bonvenon> sure. (i've got one of those too) ;)
<bonvenon> url?
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/work
<klepas> there is more scattered amongst the blog
<bonvenon> ahaha! australia indeed! http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/46
<klepas> yea
<klepas> where are you from? :-)
<bonvenon> sweden
<bonvenon> I just downloaded the jedilinux svg. 
<klepas> now that's closer to where I was born :-)
<klepas> oh, hehe :-)
<klepas> that was fun to make!
<bonvenon> I really like the illustration, but I think you could work more with the typography
<klepas> yea
<klepas> agreed
<klepas> please, by all means, do improve
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> typography I prefer in gimp
<bonvenon> I think it would be great with the text hand written
<klepas> probably
<klepas> I don't have a good graphics tablet
<bonvenon> hmm... I might give it a try
<klepas> sure
<klepas> so long as you show me afterwards :-)
<bonvenon> of course
<klepas> :-)
<bonvenon> what exactly is the Jedilinux?
<bonvenon> oh. it's a linux dist, right?
<klepas> JediLinux is a small linux distro set into motion by a couple of inquisitive guys from linuxforums.org
<klepas> it is source based like gentoo and slack
<klepas> hence the "may the source be with you" and "be the master of your system" :-)
<bonvenon> :)
<klepas> but I'm happy with my suse and ubuntu system
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-04
<volvoguy> hey ogra, are you a canonical person or a community person? 
<klepas> anyone home? :o)
<daeb> Llo'
<daeb> Smbdy here ?
<daeb> awake ?
<daeb> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-28
<troy_s> greetz kwwii
<Viper550> Isn't there supposed to be a topic?
<Viper550> Is anyone here?
<kwwii> re
<Viper550> Hi...
<kwwii> howdy Viper550
<Viper550> My theme for Edgy is almost ready, I'm just looking for a nicer splash screen
<kwwii> cool, sounds good
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> the kubuntu stuff is almost finished as well
<Viper550> Cool, did you change the bad looking buttons?
<Viper550> * on the border?
<kwwii> yepp :-)
<kwwii> check the wiki page, I uploaded a screenshot
<Viper550> The graphically intensive kubuntu-edgy-ideas?
<kwwii> yepp :-)
<kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
<Viper550> Yeah, I think I already saw it
<kwwii> I have pretty much everything done except for a usplash pic
<Viper550> I think it would look better if the Maximize glyph was smaller, and the Minimize glyph was smaller
<kwwii> I was hoping that we could at least make the usplash pic for kubuntu and ubuntu similar
<Viper550> Ooops, I meant minimize to be lower, not smaller
<kwwii> ahhh, good idea
<kwwii> actually, I did move them down one pixel
<Viper550> That's one of the reasons I thought they looked a bit wonky
<kwwii> but I was thinking about moving the whole button down one pixel as well
<Viper550> So, move Minimize's glyph down a few pixels to the bottom of Maximize, and make Close's button bigger
<Viper550> I meant Close's glyph, sorry
<kwwii> I'll look into that
<kwwii> I still have a few weeks time to tweak things
<Viper550> Oh, in that second picture, I love those icons, what are they?
<Viper550> They look like Oxygen...
<Viper550> OMG! So that's what the KDE 4 iconset looks like on a Desktop!
<kwwii> yepp
<Viper550> Looks nice! But, the new folders kinda look weirder
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> not sure if we will keep brown or blue
<Viper550> The ones on the about page look nicer, Blue and the fill style you used there is nicer...
<kwwii> yeah, I thought so too, but everyone else liked the newer version that david made
<Viper550> Maybe the 2 designs could be combined
<kwwii> well, it is more a matter of perspective, I think
<Viper550> I mean, the perspective of the current one, but make the fill style similar to the old one.
<kwwii> so you like the higher contrast of the older ones, I guess
<Viper550> kwwii: You said you wanted a Purple Usplash?
<kwwii> Viper550: nope, didn't say that ;-)
<kwwii> probably just a blue logo on a black bg
<Viper550> Well, you did say that you didn't do the Usplash yet
<kwwii> yepp, I did say that :-)
<Viper550> I just did finish a purple version of the Dapper Usplash right now
<kwwii> hehe, cool, post it on the wiki :-)
<Viper550> kubuntu-edgy-ideas, Right?
<Viper550> Post'd!
<Viper550> Hello
<kwwii> killer
<Viper550> You like it?
<kwwii> well, the problem with using purple is that it goes against the branding
<kwwii> so I guess we really cannot do that without changing the logo and official colors themselves
<Viper550> But note, on Usplash on Breezy, the whole thing was colored blue
<Viper550> Never mind what I just said...
<Viper550> We did change the branding going into Dapper's more deep bluish look, so we can easily do it again to our violet colors!
<kwwii> they do not want to change the branding again
<Viper550> Oh...
<kwwii> note that I am using the blue logo on a purple-ish bg for everything else though
<Viper550> Oh...might there be a way we can still have a purplish Usplash but maintain the correct colors?
<kwwii> not too sure on that, theoretically it should be possible
<kwwii> a very dark purple
<Viper550> Or, Blue with a purple glow?
<kwwii> that would work too, yeah
<Viper550> I'm going to rig up something like that...
<Viper550> But...how?
<kwwii> cool, good luck
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> kinda hard with so few colors
<Viper550> I might wanna try modifying Breezy's splash...
<kwwii> that will probably not result in a good pic, but it would give you and idea
* Viper550 is fooling with Fireworks's glow filter
<kwwii> ;-)
* kwwii goes to the gas station
<kwwii> brb
<Viper550> The new splash for my Edgy theme is ready: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic
<Viper550> I finished the new splash screen for Tropic...
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-29
<Who_> troy_s: you there?
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> who_ what is up?
<Who_> I'm doing Blubuntu stuff and Im tempted to add some largeglowing line arcs accross everything
<Who_> thoughts
<troy_s> hrm... not really... depends on how it integrates with your icons/ rest of desky i would suppose.
<Who_> troy_s: yea - exactly - I can make it integrate nicely with GDM, wallpaper, lsplash, usplash, but perhaps not the icons...
<troy_s> its a bit tricky...
<troy_s> if it is prominent, perhaps you can utilize another motif from the icons to make it cohesive?
<Who_> well, with Inkscape it is easy to have a version with a layer for the circles that is hidden
<troy_s> or if it is subtle, you might be able to get away with it by customizing a few icons.
<troy_s> of the more highly visible sort.
<Who_> yea - I'm afraid the icons have hit a bit of a time stump this realease - I haven't got custom ones yet
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> so you are sort of forced to 'fit in'
<troy_s> unless you just throw all caution into the wind and go with your look.
<troy_s> which i suppose is possible too.
<Who_> yea.
<Who_> I am going to present a 'Blubuntu' and 'Blubuntu Circles'
<Who_> grr - it is too late at night - i can't make anything good
<Who_> so frustrating - cos I keep trying and it doesn't work so I stay up later!!
<Who_> okay, call it a night
<Who_> see ya troy_s
<troy_s> nighty who_
<lapo> hi
<PingunZ> ping troy_s
<PingunZ> I had an idea for the new structure of ubuntu-art ... ( not the forum idea )
<PingunZ> Seperate teams in ubuntu art ( wallpaper, icons, ... )
<PingunZ> So that if people want to join the team, they select what they are good in .
<PingunZ> And dont get mails about usplash if they dont know anything about it..
<PingunZ> And every ' team ' would have its team leader(s) who approve or dismiss the art they made.
<PingunZ> So mainly the GTK team asks a nice metacity for its team --> they send their request to the Ubuntu art ( core team ), they approve the request, mail it to the Metacity team. They make one, it gets approved by the Metacity-Leaders and get sent to the GTK team.
<PingunZ> Any comments ? :)
<Madpilot> PingunZ, splitting the GTK & Metacity teams seems awkward - rather just one Desktop Theme team, if we're going to split stuff up
<PingunZ> Madpilot: I'm sorry, what does awkward mean ?
<Madpilot> "too much work", in this case
<PingunZ> ah ok :)
<Madpilot> GTK & Metacity are so intertwined in the whole look of a theme that splitting them doesn't seem to make much sense
<PingunZ> Well, we could put those together
<PingunZ> The base is that Icon makers dont have to make Usplash.
<Madpilot> ya
<PingunZ> And if they can they just subcribe to that mailing list too ..
<PingunZ> But you certainly have a point for the metacity & GTK team .
<PingunZ> IMO this would be more structured ..
<PingunZ> And ( IMO again ;) ) artists would know better what they have to do.
<PingunZ> brb
<PingunZ> b
<PingunZ> Madpilot: Do you like the general idea ? Or
<PingunZ> *Or was it just the GTK/metacity thing ?
<Madpilot> not entirely, TBH. I think one mailing list & a combined team work right now; the art team isn't big enough to warrent splitting up...
<Madpilot> plus, with a combined team/mailing list/etc, you get crossover of ideas - people see a wallpaper idea and use the concept in a splash, or vice-versa
<PingunZ> That what I was worried about too. But then you'll have the Icon theme --> They know exactly what to do.
<PingunZ> That crossover thing might be right ... I'm thinking about a solution ..
<PingunZ> Well, Team leaders communicate with other team leaders, they see a nice wallpaper, tell the Splash team about it and tadam !
<PingunZ> Bah I dont think this idea will come true anyway ..
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome!  =-=-= Most current news and items https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/ =-=-= Start at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork =-=-= Tasks at http://www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs =-=-=
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-tr]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+t]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> PingunZ -- you called?
<PingunZ> troy_s: read up :)
<troy_s> ahh i did...
<troy_s> I think madpilot is on point with his estimation.
<PingunZ> troy_s: what is estimation ?
<PingunZ> Oh, I found out ;)
<PingunZ> Well I think Madpilot's point was true also but the idea can be modified ...
<bersace> troy_s: did you saw my GDM themes ?
<bersace> not for edgy,
<bersace> but i can help you writing GDM theme
<bersace> troy_s: http://www.gnome-look.org/usermanager/search.php?username=bersace03
<lapo> yo bersace, what about gnomescan?
<bersace> lapo: i'm currently working on Hal scanner support
<bersace> lapo: but that's quite hard.
<bersace> SANE is quite ugly
<lapo> bersace: hal scanner support? you mean for example to use is some ways the button you find on most scanners today?
<lapo> s/button/buttons/
<bersace> yeah,
<bersace> and more
<lapo> ubercool
<bersace> the first goal is to get ride of the "probe" dialog at each launch
<lapo> very cool and needed stuff, bravo!
<lapo> I hope to see the result of your work integrated everywhere in gnome relly soon
<Viper550> I've seen those new proposed cursors
<PingunZ> troy_s, I read your mail about the GDM. With icons ?
<PingunZ> You could accomplish it with .svg icons and a .png background ..
<lgespee> hello
<lgespee> does anybody of you know about an Human style GDM theme with face browser?
<PingunZ> lgespee, look on gnome-look, face browsers wont be in ubuntu's default install cause of security reasons.
<lgespee> PingunZ: alright thanks, I can accept the choice, it is just that a "normal" user I installed Ubuntu for last week didn't want to retype his name everytime
<lgespee> PingunZ: but thanks
<PingunZ> lgespee, you can enable autologin
<lgespee> PingunZ: it's a two user system :(
<PingunZ> ah
<PingunZ> look around on gnome-look. they have lots of nice face-browsers.
<lgespee> PingunZ: but there are face browser themes in Ubuntu default install, there was a Gnome one in it
<lgespee> PingunZ: it just looks ugly a blueish login and then a Human style desktop
<PingunZ> I didn't know that. I like face browsers too but the idea got dismissed..
<lgespee> PingunZ: I will do that, I couln't find any on art.gnome.org but didn't look any further
<PingunZ> lgespee, you could change the background image ?
<PingunZ> gnome-look.org ;)
<lgespee> PingunZ: I don't know, didn't look for that either
<lgespee> PingunZ: .org, yeah I got that ;)
<lgespee> PingunZ: thanks a lot, at gnome-look.org they have a bunch of them
<PingunZ> :)
<PingunZ> hey all
<Viper550> kwii? are you there?
<Viper550> oh, hi PingunZ
<PingunZ> hmm dapper is behaving wierd, brb ( reboot )
<PingunZ> Back :)
<andreasn> PingunZ: hi!
<PingunZ> how are you andreasn
<andreasn> PingunZ: everything is fine. Got a new and working keyboard for my laptop
<andreasn> PingunZ: everything fine with you?
<PingunZ> Yeah, I installed SLED today :)
<PingunZ> I copied all their artwork and I'm now taking a look at it.
<andreasn> copied?
<PingunZ> Yes, just made a copy on my hard-drive and I'm now taking a look at it in ubuntu
<PingunZ> I really don't like SuSE
<andreasn> ah, I see
<Viper550> All you need is Slab...
<PingunZ> I have slab up and working yet
<PingunZ> A much better version than the suse one.
<Viper550> Ubuntu System Panel
<andreasn> yeah, jimmac did great work with gdm, splashes and stuff
<andreasn> that guy is great
<PingunZ> I prefer slab to USP.
<andreasn> Viper550: what is UPS exactly?
<andreasn> err...usp?
<Viper550> Some sort of advanced main menu applet by chanders, written in Python, VERY COMPLEX
<andreasn> interesting
<andreasn> how does it work?
<Viper550> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=222546'
<Viper550> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=222546 (don't click the first one)
<andreasn> hm, so it's like slab, but slightly different and written i python?
<Viper550> Yep!
<PingunZ> andreasn, and it takes half of your screen :)
<andreasn> wow, that is weird
<andreasn> well, I guess people are free to do whatever they like with their own time
<PingunZ> Haha that's a nice way of saying it :)
<PingunZ> I'm building and installing a new hack of slab.
<andreasn> well, I'm not trying to bash it in any way, I mean, the current system with categories is less than optimal
<Viper550> Soon, Kickoff will be the big thing
<PingunZ> Kickoff ?
<PingunZ> never heard of that before
<andreasn> "After the release of the SLED menu and seeing that it was so popular with Ubuntu users, I took it upon myself to do something of our own."
<andreasn> of our own?
<PingunZ> Yes, stealing it from Suse
<PingunZ> -_-
<Viper550> IT'S OPEN SOURCE! Come on, it's even on Gnome CVS!
<andreasn> stealing and stealing
<andreasn> I'm more afraid of the "Not Invented Here" attitude
<PingunZ> I'm not against it, but they stole it :)
<andreasn> PingunZ: how do you mean? stole what?
<Viper550> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2283 (Kickoff)
<andreasn> yeah, Kickoff seems nice as well
<PingunZ> Yes, kickoff seems very nice. Too bad its kde-only.
<andreasn> well, slab seems to solve the same problems as kickoff (and vice versa)
<Viper550> Oh yeah, this might be a bit hard to customize for other distros, since the eyes move on the lizard!
<andreasn> k
<andreasn> 
<andreasn> sorry, my keyboard is weird
<andreasn> :)
<andreasn> PingunZ: did you get anywhere with the splash screen for gnome.org? I haven't followed the discussion of that too close
<PingunZ> andreasn, I made a mockup and other people created new splashes.
<andreasn> did they turn out good?
<PingunZ> They are not bad ..
<andreasn> I'm really glad you picked that up
<PingunZ> Bah, I didn't do a lot actually
<PingunZ> But they seem to like the text ' Simply Powerful'
<andreasn> it's a smashing concept!
<PingunZ> Ok, I hacked the new slab code .. now building it  :)
<PingunZ> Shite, errors ..
<andreasn> hope slab get into gnome upstream soon
<PingunZ> it is in the beerorkid repo yet
<andreasn> I bet it makes packaging and distro-neatrualness better
<PingunZ> brb
<PingunZ> I'm taking a look at the Novell GDM's source.
<viper550> kwwii_, do you happen to have the source code for the new version of Crystal on Edgy?
<PingunZ> they use a 10.24*768 .jpeg files as background O_o
<viper550> With the new buttons and gradient?
<kwwii_> viper550: you mean the window deco buttons and gradient?
<viper550> Yeah..
<andreasn> PingunZ: you can probably ask jimmac if he did any special voodoo, he's on vacation right now though
<viper550> He didn't do any special voodoo, I think his wallpaper just scales well
<PingunZ> Well, I think Edgy's login window should Beat suse's one.
<PingunZ> and that is easy to accomplish :)
<PingunZ> What makes suse look so good is that they have art everywhere, gfxboot, nice bootsplash, nice login window, nice splash screen, nice wall, ...
<PingunZ> They are all based on the wallpaper
<viper550> Yeah, I dig how they've did it, ever since Novell took over, they've been looking good!
<PingunZ> The splashes of opeoffice etc are based on the wallpaper too ..
<viper550> Yeah, CONSISTANCY IS THEIR BIG BUSINESS
<PingunZ> I think we should inspire the human theme on the wallpaper too
<PingunZ> and create a very nice wallpaper ;)
<PingunZ> Suse always looks different too, 9.* was fresh green, 10
<PingunZ> *10.* is blue, ...
<PingunZ> They don't care about a default color, they just make a very polished distro. In whatever the color is.
<kwwii_> well, I made everything from 5.3 to 10.0
<viper550> Yeah, 9.2 was a deep Cyan, 9.3 was Green, 10 was Blue, 10.1 was a cyanish again, and 10.2 is a very deep bright blue in places!
<PingunZ> *polished distro == art :)
<PingunZ> I think Suse's OS sucks but the art is incredible.
<PingunZ> For new users Suse is a keeper because it looks so good.
<PingunZ> I'd like to see very new and fresh art in ubuntu
<kwwii_> hehe, I built a tradition, what luck
<viper550> Yeah, make our distro cooler!
<viper550> (how do you apply diff files?)
<kwwii_> I have done better work in the last 6 months for kubuntu than I ever did in the last 7 years at suse
<PingunZ> Not always based on the yellow/brown color.
<PingunZ> kwwii_, you were in the suse art team ? :)
<PingunZ> is it better structured ?
<PingunZ>  or do they have more artists ?
<kwwii_> PingunZ: I am/was the suse art team
<kwwii_> ie, there was nobody else
<PingunZ> meh ?
<PingunZ> You made ALL the suse art ?
<kwwii_> and I started to work for canonical in March
<kwwii_> yepp, all of it...I am co-author of the bootsplash as well
<PingunZ> And you're not kidding right ?
<andreasn> one really good guy working really hard is usually a good trick
<kwwii_> I even made the mousepads and coffee cups
<kwwii_> check bootsplash.org and see who owns it
<PingunZ> How long are you in the ubuntu-art team kwwii_ ?
<kwwii_> shit, google for my name
<kwwii_> since early this year
<viper550> !language
<PingunZ> I believe you kwwii_ :)
<kwwii_> I believe you too :P
<PingunZ> meh ?
<kwwii_> just kidding ;-)
<PingunZ> Well, It's an honour to meet an artist like that.
<viper550> How would you apply the diff patch that adds in the new Edgy buttons?
<cbx33> kwwii_ rawks :p
<kwwii_> Hehe, just send your 5$ donation to my account :P
<cbx33> kwwii_, there's an update of some of the sounds
<andreasn> kwwii_: did you want to discuss the naming-spec at some point? you mentioned it some time ago, but I've been too buzy to contact you about it
<cbx33> i'll give you a link if you're interested?
<kwwii_> cool, I would love to hear them
<cbx33> progbox.co.uk/finals
<cbx33> then there is a folder in there
<cbx33> with a date as it's name
<cbx33> they are all in there
<kwwii_> andreasn: yes! we have a list started already (as always, kubuntu is ahead of the pack)
<cbx33> Frank and I have a meeting scheduled for tomorrow to discuss them
<andreasn> kwwii_: sounds great!
<kwwii_> andreasn: the new naming stuff will take place in kde4 so we are on top of all the others
<PingunZ> kwwii_, You are also the artist of the SLED 10 ? The only artist ?
<kwwii_> :-)
<viper550> SLED 10 uses most of the same artwork as 10.1
<kwwii_> PingunZ: no, I worked with Jimmac and TigerT for that, but the artwork is almost the same
<kwwii_> the KDE is mine, in any case
<PingunZ> ok :)
<andreasn> kwwii_: lots of stuff that needs to be added? anything needs to be changed?
<PingunZ> Is there any chance that custom gimp/inkscape/OOo/ ... could sneak into edgy ?
<kwwii_> andreasn: until now, it looks like, lots of stuff that needs to be added
<kwwii_> andreasn: the few but important cases of where things over-lap are still to come
<kwwii_> :-)
<andreasn> kwwii_: ok
<viper550> Still, what about the buttons for Crystal?
<viper550> (oh yeah, someone ported Tangerine to KDE: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=44533&PHPSESSID=d09cf8d82075fc6e1da0c757ed3a8e9c)
<viper550> (remove everything after &)
<andreasn> hm, interesting
<andreasn> and quite nice
<viper550> It is missing icons in some places though, but it is nice to see that someone is porting Tangerine to KDE!
<viper550> But for now, I'll keep my Crystal XVG
<andreasn> well, with the naming-spec and stuff porting wont be needed
<viper550> *SVG
<andreasn> and kde4 will render the svg's much better
<andreasn> so the imagemagick-stuff won't be needed
<viper550> Just wondering Andreas, do you know how to intergrate .diff files into source code?
<PingunZ> Hey, can I have your opinions/suggests on this, I'm a beginning artist, new to linux and willing to learn ( a lot ) of making linux-art. Atm I use gnome So i'd prefer to make gnome-related art. Where do I start ? I've been hanging around in the ubuntu-art section fow a few weeks now but I'm not experienced enough to create really nice art. So, where do I start ? I'd like to contribute a lot in edgy+1.
<andreasn> viper550: I'm totally lost when it comes to stuff like that
<viper550> oh
<andreasn> viper550: I just draw stuff :)
<viper550> oh
<PingunZ> bah, apperently not :)
<andreasn> PingunZ: any particular area you feel interested in?
<PingunZ> andreasn, no actually not. I don't really like to make icons :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-30
<andreasn> gnome-games might need some new graphics
<PingunZ> andreasn, I was actually more asking what programs / guides / .. to use. I want to learn using free software instead of photoshop.
<andreasn> PingunZ: ah, I see
<PingunZ> Learn making gtk themes and metacity's :)
<PingunZ> Bah, I'm still young so I have got plenty of time -_-
<andreasn> PingunZ: have you given Inkscape a try?
<PingunZ> Not really
<andreasn> you should try it out, it's really
<andreasn> nice
<PingunZ> And what about XaraLX ?
<andreasn> I haven't tried it, but the developers seems like nice guys
<PingunZ> So I start using inkscape and xaraLX, what is next :)
<PingunZ> I want to be able to make art like you guys do :)
<andreasn> read some tutorials or create something nice you feel is needed
<andreasn> like new stuff for gnome-games (or whatever you pick)
<andreasn> and ask someone for advice when you feel you need help
<andreasn> and then just draw, draw, draw
<andreasn> :)
<PingunZ> Ok, so once I'm able to use these programs, I learn making metacity/gtk themes ?
<andreasn> no, that is good for doing mockups and graphics
<andreasn> I think there are some good tutorials on how to do metacity themes somewhere
<PingunZ> dont search the link now
<andreasn> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/metacity/metacity-themes.html
<PingunZ> I'll ask them once I'm a inkscape-xaralx-gimp master :)
<andreasn> you can also visit #gnome-art, there are some people who done a metacity-theme or two in their days in there
<PingunZ> ok
<PingunZ> well, I'm going for a nap. bye all
<troy_s> ping
<troy_s> who lives?
<PingunZ> Hmm, what should I learn first ? Inkscape, Gimp or XaraLX ?
<Madpilot> Inkscape
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<Madpilot> then Gimp, which frankly has an awful UI.
<Madpilot> Inkscape's UI rocks
<PingunZ> I'll make a scalable Tux then :)
<PingunZ> I'm used to photoshop
<PingunZ> But I want to use free software :)
<Madpilot> Very cool Inkscape textbook online: http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/
<Madpilot> Also, Iinkscape's built-in help & tutorials are first-rate
<PingunZ> How long does it take to learn inkscaping if you know your way around in photoshop ?
<kwwii_> inkscape is pure vector, photoshop is a bitmap program
<kwwii_> so it might take a while
<Madpilot> not long, it's actually a much simpler program, but you can do stuff easily in it that's very hard/impossible in PS or GIMP
<PingunZ> A while : a week, a month, a year ?
<kwwii_> but if you are used to adobe illustrator, it isn't too hard to change
<PingunZ> Only photoshop ..
<PingunZ> I learned a LOT of photoshop by following crystalxp.net 's howto for making a Tux.
<Madpilot> PingunZ, there's a very good inkscape-users mailing list
<PingunZ> Madpilot: I get enough mail IMO :)
<Madpilot> heh, I know the feeling.
<PingunZ> Gnome-art and Ubuntu-art is kinda enough for me.
<Madpilot> inkscape-users isn't very busy, and all the inkscape devs post there too, which is nice
<PingunZ> Well I going to unsubcribe gnome-art anyway when their splash is done.
<PingunZ> inkscape is a wierd program.
<Madpilot> yes, but in a good way. :)
<Madpilot> just keep reminding yourself that it's **not** Photoshop ;)
<lapo> hi
<PingunZ> hey lapo
<Madpilot> hi lapo
<PingunZ> Well madpilot, I noticed that :D Its nice, probably better then photoshop. I just have to learn use it :)
<lapo> ciao PingunZ, Madpilot
<Madpilot> PingunZ, ya, go thru the tutorial exercises in that tavmjong.free.fr link I gave you, they helped me a lot to get a good grasp on what Inkscape is capable of
<PingunZ> Madpilot: I'm doing that now.
<PingunZ> The problem is that it is a HUGE book :)
<PingunZ> But its worth it.
<Madpilot> skip right to the example/tutorial section, and refer back to the rest of the thing as needed
<PingunZ> I'm making the swedish flag now -_-
<fschoep> cbx33: ping
<PingunZ> hey fschoep
<fschoep> Hi PingunZ
<fschoep> brb
<cbx33> fschoep: pong
<cbx33> been waiting for your call bud :p
<cbx33> got a pm window all ready :p
<PingunZ> cbx33: he's gone ;)
<cbx33> oh shute
<cbx33> dang it dang it
<cbx33> I turn away fro 5 seconds
<PingunZ> :)
<cbx33> if hew comes back
<cbx33> and I don't immediately reply....tell him I will be back
<PingunZ> ok ;)
<cbx33> i can't beleive I missed him
<PingunZ> He'll be right back he said.
<cbx33> is inkscape really that good iyho PingunZ ?
<PingunZ> Not yet :)
<cbx33> i used to run ps6.0 under wine
<PingunZ> cbx33: Are you on photoshop too ?
<cbx33> fschoep: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<fschoep> I'm back
<cbx33> PingunZ: but it's broken under dapper :(
<fschoep> Hey cbx33, sorry I just missed you
<cbx33> sorry I missed you
<PingunZ> lol
<fschoep> No problem, got some time?
<cbx33> I have a pm ready
<cbx33> PingunZ: what about adjustment layers?
<fschoep> OK, let's go then (I don't see the PM yet)
<PingunZ> cbx33: in photoshop or inkscape ?
<cbx33> inkscape
<PingunZ> cbx33: I started inkscape 15 minutes ago :)
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> heheheh
<cbx33> ok np
<PingunZ> I'm kinda learning it :D
<PingunZ> He's not online on msn either..
<PingunZ> Oh, sorry wrong channel
<PingunZ> bah
<PingunZ> Wohoo, I draw a swedish flag in inkscape -_-
<PingunZ> fschoep: Can I pm you about the Forum-idea ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: sure, I might reply slower than usual but go ahead
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<PingunZ> ping troy_s
<PingunZ> hey andreasn
<andreasn> hi PingunZ
<troy_s> go PingunZ --
<troy_s> not much time here this morning.
<PingunZ> troy_s: can I pm you about the Forum Idea -- I heard you don't like it at all
<troy_s> not that i don't like it at all...
<troy_s> let me stress that.
<troy_s> I have used forums and all before, but right now, with our current state of artwork team
<troy_s> i think it is most useful to apply occkham's razor
<troy_s> while trying to integrate into the rest of the Ubuntu development team as much as possible.
<troy_s> Does that make sense PingunZ?
<PingunZ> troy_s: what does occham's razor mean ?
<troy_s> Good Google term for you I suppose ;)
<troy_s> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
<troy_s> Ockham's Occam etc.
<PingunZ> troy_s: Is it ok if I pm you about it ?
<troy_s> of course pingunz
<PingunZ> ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-31
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<troy_s> greets all.
<viper550> Hello everyone...
<troy_s> hi viper.
<viper550> I noticed the new direction Kubuntu is going in, nice!
<troy_s> you can thank kwwii for that.
<viper550> Yep, but still, if we are trying to make the desktop purpler, why not use the colorize panel option?
<troy_s> talk to kwwii
<troy_s> i am quite sure he is the best and most knowledgeable person on the subject
<viper550> kwwii, you there?
<kwwii> viper550: yepp
<viper550> I have one last Kubuntu suggestion...about the panel
<kwwii> you want to add a panel bg?
<viper550> No, but we could easily use the "Colorize Panel to match Desktop Color Scheme" option by default
<kwwii> viper550: that option is only selectable when using a panelbg
<viper550> Yes, and don't we use one by default?
<kwwii> nope
<viper550> The screenshots show one
<kwwii> perhaps it does and I am mistaken
<kwwii> have to check that out
* kwwii is working on an amarok theme atm
<viper550> I thought we already had a new Amarok theme (in the new Edgy Knot 2 pictures that it uses now)
<viper550> I noticed the screenshots were updated...
<cbx33> frank been around?
<troy_s> not that i have seen
<troy_s> great progress on the theme work cbx
<troy_s> although i had no idea you were progressing.
<cbx33> thanks troy_s
<cbx33> heeh
<troy_s> a little more updating would be nice to a busy guy... :)
<cbx33> well they're gonna hopefully be in knot 3 now !
<troy_s> even on the list...
<cbx33> sorry troy_s
<cbx33> we're gonna get feedback from the knot 3 release
<viper550> Umm, Knot 2?
<troy_s> Nice.
<troy_s> What one did you go with the percussion?
<troy_s> (i hope)
<cbx33> progbox.co.uk/finals
<cbx33> goto the last date filder
<cbx33> folder
<cbx33> and those are the sounds that will be on knot 3
<cbx33> viper550, no not knot 2
<viper550> oh...
<troy_s> what NICE
<troy_s> wise choice
<troy_s> great to hear
<viper550> But still...why does the wallpaper have bronze in it? Looks a bit weird...
<viper550> It's still nice, just looks a bit..ahem..out of place
<troy_s> bronze?
<troy_s> where?
<viper550> In the wallpaper...the middle
<troy_s> what wallpaper?
<troy_s> you came out of the blue on that one viper550
<troy_s> cbx -- great work!
<viper550> the new wallpaper on Knot 2
<viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2/Kubuntu
<troy_s> work time.
<troy_s> be good my friends
<cbx33> thanks troy_s
<cbx33> take care
<troy_s> keep me in the loop
<cbx33> I'm really sorry troy_s
<cbx33> are you happy with the decision?
<troy_s> even mail to the list -- it would be nice to expand the artwork list to include all of the creative direction things...
<troy_s> totally.
<troy_s> the percussion was always my fave
<kwwii> don't worry, we are putting another version for testing soon
* cbx33 too
<cbx33> kwwii, you got a mail from Frank?
<kwwii> cbx33: nope
<troy_s> and the logout is very
<troy_s> tasteful
<troy_s> vaguely like zimmers work on gladiator
<cbx33> oh?
<cbx33> troy_s, you flatter me
<troy_s> anyways, work beckons.
<cbx33> Zimmer is my favourite composer
<kwwii> cbx33: erm, yepp, just arrived
<cbx33> that's the best compliment I've ever had
<cbx33> ;)
<viper550> Well on the panel BG, I'm just testing a new one out
<cbx33> kwwii, lemme know if you have any thoughts on it
<kwwii> cbx33: I like the EndComplic.mp3
<cbx33> hehe...that's theme03 right?
<viper550> I'm working on a new panel bg for Kubuntu...
<viper550> Anyone still here?
<cbx33> viper550, eye
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> making my son a bath though
<viper550> I posted my new panel background to kubuntu-edgy-ideas
<kwwii> cool,, I'll test it later
<cbx33> kwwii, think theme02 is suitable for you guys?
<viper550> Oh yeah, these are easily the best icons ever: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=44972
<PingunZ> viper550: those icons are great :)
<viper550> 21 megabytes, and a slow server....CAN'T WAIT TO MIRROR THIS!
<viper550> 1 megabyte down...20 to go...
* PingunZ is kinda used to Tango :)
<viper550> Man....slow...
<viper550> 18 KB/s...
<PingunZ> You'll just have to wait :)
<viper550> Yep...
<PingunZ> lol I can download it at 45 kb/s
<viper550> 25 minutes according to Konqueror
<viper550> Come on, and I have high speed here!
<PingunZ> Well, I think its time I try kubuntu again.
<viper550> what you using now?
<PingunZ> Ubuntu
<PingunZ> edgy
<viper550> Erm, sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<PingunZ> I'm doing that :)
<viper550> Installs all the Kubuntu stuff....and leaves Gnome intact
<PingunZ> I know viper550 :)
<viper550> Oh, I thought you were reformatting...
<PingunZ> No lol
<PingunZ> Wow, 6 minutes to install kde
<viper550> RealistiK progress: 19%, 4.3 MB, 13kb/s
<PingunZ> *download
<PingunZ> Wow, 16 people in this channel. Is that somekind of record ?
<msikma> Hi there
<viper550> not quite sure though...
<PingunZ> Hey msikma
<viper550> Where should I mirror these wonderful icons when done?
<PingunZ> Bah, I have to go to school tomorrow. My 2-month vacation is done :)
<viper550> Still...............why so slow? 43% 9.5 MB complete
<viper550> 10 kb/s
<PingunZ> viper550: My kde is almost installed -_-
<viper550> cool...
<PingunZ> quicker than an icon theme :)
<kwwii> cbx33: I can ask what everyone thinks :-)
<cbx33> kwwii, well
<cbx33> if you like it....you could always put it on knot 3
<cbx33> like we are doing in ubuntu
<cbx33> up to you
<kwwii> cbx33: true
<cbx33> then we could have sounds on ubuntu and kubuntu
<cbx33> and I'll try to get some new ons for edubuntu too.....not sure if xubuntu has any ??
<kwwii> no idea, really
<PingunZ> Sorry, X crash
<viper550> Man...this download is the slowest download ever...even WITHOUT 56k
<PingunZ> Kubuntu should be installed ( running prelink ).
<PingunZ> There seem to be a lot of libs to be prelinked
<viper550> This download is SLOOOOOWWWWW....
<PingunZ> viper550: How many more MB left ?
<viper550> 3
<viper550> Yay, 92%
<viper550> YEAH! It's FINALLY done!!!
<PingunZ> Bah, you win. my kubuntu is still prelinking
<viper550> We were racing? Icons vs. Kubuntu Installation?
<PingunZ> Im on kubuntu now
<PingunZ> In qwerty xD
<PingunZ> Cool, Compiz works
<viper550> These icons are AWESOME!
<PingunZ> Kubuntu is ... not bad :p
<PingunZ> Kubuntu's art improved a lot
<PingunZ> The wallpaper isn't bubblish anymore :)
<viper550> Yeah...my Fedora Core 5 desktop is a mashup of anything Glossy and Kubuntu...
<PingunZ> Hmm, I'm going to reboot. Gnome-session deamon crashed --> everything looks very ugly !
<PingunZ> Brb
<viper550> Let me see, Vista buttons and one of kwwii's overlays on Crystal windecoration, Kubuntu Edgy Knot 2 color scheme, Polyester, and the RealistiK icons
<kwwii> hehe, guess we are not going to change icons too soon, crystal is pretty complete by now
<Viper550> Hello everyone...
<exs> The OK button icon arrow, e.g. when asked for login to root is very horrible looking
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-01
<Viper550> Does anyone know how to preform the patch on the Crystal source that adds in the new Kubuntu Edgy buttons to Crystal?
<volvoguy> hey folks, long time no talk! how are things in the ubuntu artwork world?
<Viper550> Going excellently...
<volvoguy> loverly! i've been trying to psych myself up to getting some work done here again.
<volvoguy> did any community created stuff make it into dapper? i was helping with the release before that and there wasn't much communication between this group and canonical.
<Viper550> Yeah, several themes
<volvoguy> cool.
<Viper550> And, we've got several new themes for Edgy coming along as well: Peace, Dash, Blubuntu, and my theme Tropic
<volvoguy> i'm still most interested in SVG stuff, so i'll have to catch up with things on the wiki and see if there's anything i can do.
<volvoguy> nice... i've been patiently waiting all day to see knot-2 show up. are the new themes in the main repository or do we have our own CVS-type setup now?
<Viper550> not quite yet, go to the wiki and you can find links to the ones in progress
<volvoguy> okey dokey. :)
<volvoguy> have any of you heard if knot-2 is still expected today? they're busy arguing about sound card drivers in the main channel.
<Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/ThemeTeams
<Viper550> But from what I hear, Knot 2 Kubuntu has a new default theme
<volvoguy> cool. i've never really liked KDE, but i put knot-1 kubuntu on my canonical laptop and forced myself to use it for a while and now i'm really digging it.
<volvoguy> Tropic looks nice btw.
<Viper550> Thanks, that's my theme! Wondering how it started?
<volvoguy> sure! :)
<Viper550> Started out as a Silver, Green, and Orange theme using the gFlat engine
<Viper550> I got all that from the lamps on my network router...
<volvoguy> heh
<Viper550> But then, I switched it over to Ubuntulooks
<volvoguy> i actually like color combos like that.
<Viper550> But then, some people complained about saturation and stuff like that, so I then tried it with just Orange, changing the direction alot.
<Viper550> Tropic is now a tribute to the original Ubuntulooks theme from Flight 4 of Dapper (before it got caramelled)
<volvoguy> yeah, i was kinda hoping it'd stay on the orange side.
<Viper550> Then, I prepared to possibly move it to Murrine by porting it to Candido
<volvoguy> that's where i get lost with theming - how the different engines fit in.
<Viper550> Murrine is actually pretty nice
<volvoguy> are the engines basically the widgets and different themes just color variations?
<Viper550> yes.
<volvoguy> gotcha.
<volvoguy> that's what i really wanted to push when i was overseeing things (breezy-era) - not necessarily more engines, but as many color variations as possible.
<volvoguy> this group was created a little too late for breezy though, and i had to drop out of things shortly after that release.
<Viper550> oh...
<Viper550> But, every engine offers unique options and appearances
<volvoguy> yeah. it would be nice though (and i think i've heard it's in the works) if the end user could pick a theme and choose their own color scheme - as  you can do in KDE and windows.
<volvoguy> and i'm really looking forward to cairo-powered themes.
<Viper550> That might be sorta a reality with QtCurve...
<Viper550> But, Ubuntulooks, ClearLooks 2, and Murrine are Cairo
<volvoguy> really? even in dapper?
<Viper550> Yes. But I don't think Clearlooks is. But on Fedora Core 5 (my distro), it comes with Cairo Clearlooks...AS THE DEFAULT THEME!
<zebedee> Hi I am not sure how I got here and I am very new at Ubuntu, but I like it alot... I have a question if anyone is free to help... I am trying to use evolution mail and I keep gettin a msge saying @cold not send msge, broken pipe'... Can anyone tell me what this means and how to fix it, please. Thanks in advance Z
<volvoguy> hey zebedee - you probably want to be over in the regular ubuntu channel.
<zebedee> Told you I was new at it, its supposed to read ...could not send msge.. How do I get there Heeeeeeeeelp...
<volvoguy> i don't use IRC much myself, let's see if this works....
<volvoguy> try typing "/join #ubuntu"
<volvoguy> without quotes
<zebedee> lol...type it where?
<volvoguy> where you're typing everything else here. :)
<volvoguy> it should open a new window or tab for the ubuntu channel.
<zebedee> thanx I will give it a go :-)
<volvoguy> no problem! :)
<zebedee> Nice one, it worked and I managed to find it, hooray hope they are as helpful over on reg ubuntu! Have a nice evening... LOL just realised I am on artwork!! Sorry ...
<bonZiiii> heya
<bonZiiii> i just made
<bonZiiii> 2 wallpapers
<bonZiiii> does anybody wanna see them
<bonZiiii> and assess them?
<cbx33> has the decision been made on usplash yet?
<sladen> cbx33: what decision?
<cbx33> well, there was talk of a hi res one?
<cbx33> and when i asked a few weeks ago
<cbx33> i was told it was all in astate of flux
<sladen> cbx33: yes, what decision were you wondering about?
<cbx33> well, my wife is doing the artwork for edubuntu
<cbx33> we were wondering if we could start making the final images yet?
<cbx33> ie what res, colour palette/indexing
<cbx33> if you get my drift?
<cbx33> hi kwwii
<kwwii> howdy cbx33
<kwwii> from what I have gathered on opinions it seems that people are not so hot on the complexity of the startup sound as  well as the length
<cbx33> ok sure
<cbx33> well, it's quite close to FF now
<cbx33> so I doubt I'll be able to pull together anythingnew
<cbx33> unless you like any of the other sounds on that wiki page....
<cbx33> I have some other coding to do that will run me ragged
<troy_s> give the sound some time
<troy_s> everyone has an opinion -- bikeshedding.
<troy_s> i suspect that is for kubuntu however...
<Remenic> kwwii: hey, long time no see :)
<Viper550> Hello everyone, and kwwii
<lapo> hi
<PingunZ> hey lapo
<lapo> yo PingunZ
<PingunZ> How are you ?
<lapo> fine, thanks
<lapo> any progress on the splash?
<PingunZ> lapo: Usplash, login splash or gnome.org splash ?
<lapo> gnome
<PingunZ> lapo: I haven't worked on it anymore ( a couple of gnome-artists are ) I just comment and give some advice.
<troy_s> msikma you in?
<troy_s> greetz kwwii_ how goes it?
<kwwii_> troy_s: pretty well, things are coming together pretty well for kubuntu edgy so far :-)
<troy_s> you have a summary wiki page?
<troy_s> trying to work out a lot of the lower level details for Ub...
<PingunZ> kwwii_: I tested kubuntu edgy this today .. The art has really improved :) But, I'm not really sure of the purple color..
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas is the most recent kwwii?
<kwwii_> troy_s: well, there is one page with everything we updated a while back, and I will make one soon after knot2 impressions come back in
<troy_s> do you have the link kwwii?
<kwwii_> troy_s: no, there is one slightly previous to knot2
<kwwii_> PingunZ: glad to here that you like it...the wallpaper will change soon
<troy_s> do you have the newer wallpaper?
<kwwii_> troy_s: basically, I am cycling through the variants on the page you mentioned above
<troy_s> ahh.
<PingunZ> No kwwii_ I'm talking about the purple in general .. The wallpaper is a LOT better than the dapper-default :)
<troy_s> what is it currently set to kwwii_ ?
<kwwii_> PingunZ: everyone is pretty happy with the purple :-)
<PingunZ> Btw, I'd like a real picture in edgy too ... A flower or something like that, Is that possible ?
<kwwii_> troy_s: here is an somewhat older page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot2/Kubuntu?highlight=%28knot2%29
<kwwii_> PingunZ: everyone told me that they did not want my flower pic :-(
<PingunZ> kwwii_: I have some pics like that too, I liked your pic
<troy_s> are you going with the vista buttons kwwii_ for the window manager?
<kwwii_> troy_s: I am working through newtest5*.png on the page you mentioned
<kwwii_> troy_s: they are not the vista buttons
<troy_s> fade to top?
<troy_s> or the newer?
<kwwii_> the next one will be newtest5a.png
<troy_s> looking
<kwwii_> the vista buttons actually look totally different, but I do not really look at them anyway :-)
<PingunZ> Link ? so I can look too ( or is it secret :) ? )
<troy_s> is that 'godrays' ? ;)
<kwwii_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
<troy_s> by vista i meant about the border extending into the window border...
<kwwii_> I actually have never seen the vista buttons before
<kwwii_> ever heard of an artist that was too lazy to steal?
<kwwii_> :p
<troy_s> i only noted because i recently saw some screenshots...
<kwwii_> in the window deco you can turn on several different style buttons, one of which is "vista" but they look totally different
<troy_s> and there was some similarity there.  i actually don't mind much about that sort of thing.
<troy_s> has mark been chatting with you regarding the look much?
<kwwii_> I made them as I did but it was the only thing I had never done with a button before :-)
<kwwii_> just trying to make something new
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> yep, sometimes it happens that way
<kwwii_> troy_s: now and again we have discussed it, but it is more general like "I like that a lot!"
<kwwii_> nothing nearly as specific as frank is getting, I think
<kwwii_> at first he was skeptical of the purple
<kwwii_> but I think he is convinved now :-)
<kwwii_> I have received some really great remarks, actually
<troy_s> the violet is quite refereshing and at the very least it pulls it away from kde
<troy_s> which is nice.
<troy_s> i would hope so.
<kwwii_> it seems to please everyone, and best of all, it does not totally piss anyone off
<troy_s> my only thought is that you need to coordinate the packaging.
<troy_s> blah ... you need to try and be willing to fail to really achieve anything.
<troy_s> such is life.
<kwwii_> everything that I have done as far as artwork is concerned is already packaged and in knot2
<troy_s> how goes the packaging tones... i can see a fuddle coming up if it ends up blue hell with
<troy_s> a violet experience.
<kwwii_> the small pieces are included upstream (I get a kde dev to include my art in the package they maintain)
<troy_s> i think frank is going to push a crap of stuff into knot3
<kwwii_> he better, or there will not be time to test it
<troy_s> well his tightrope is a little thinner than yours
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> as you can imagine.
<kwwii_> yepp
<kwwii_> I told him that things get critical in the next few weeks he should call me
<troy_s> well realistically everyone running edgy gets the daily updates
<troy_s> so it isn't like a point to release etc...
<troy_s> but yes, i believe it is his plan to get what he can into edgy3 as a deadline.
<troy_s> not that i can say for certain.
<troy_s> he is one of the more industrious fellows though, so i suspect he is well on it.
<kwwii_> hehe, no doubt
<troy_s> the guy has done a crazy amount of work
<kwwii_> he is a living adam ant song..."don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?"
<troy_s> to really set up future cycle releases.
<troy_s> which is great...
<troy_s> and the 80/20 ratio will generally provide enough difference to pull a good deal in line, assuming he can get it up the ladder...
<troy_s> which is probably about 90% of his effort at this point one would expect.
<troy_s> its that very delicate tightrope ;)
<kwwii_> I think that the next conf. in california would be a good time to sit down and figure out what we learned from edgy
<troy_s> i believe that is the plan
<troy_s> although i know not my schedule etc...
<troy_s> i haven't chatted to mark in about a week
<troy_s> i think he is on one of his busy weeks.  my schedule stinks of the late.
<troy_s> weekends only for me, in very selective time plans.
<kwwii_> he was on vacation this week (back now though, got an email)
<troy_s> yes it appears he returned a couple of days ago.
<kwwii_> better too much work than too little ;-)
<troy_s> arguable there :)
<troy_s> not to mention that i have yet to figure out the most effective way of dealing with email gluts.
<kwwii_> I met a group am american actors who were complaining about canadian film productions :-)
<kwwii_> s/am/of
<troy_s> yay.
<troy_s> you have anything cooking with oxygen etc?
<kwwii_> yepp, it will be ready for kde4 :-)
<kwwii_> we are working on getting it ready for trolltech atm
<troy_s> you have a link to a study?
<kwwii_> working on edgy has kinda gotten in the way of working on oxygen
<troy_s> do you have a study page of oxygen's current state?
<kwwii_> the current oxygen stuff is in svn
<troy_s> ah.
<troy_s> anything to see on the web?
<kwwii_> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/
<troy_s> thanks.
<troy_s> eek... no darn thumbs.
<kwwii_> well, there is always oxygen-icons.org
<kwwii_> we updated the previews a month or two ago :-)
<troy_s> ahh... that's probably more what i am looking for.
<troy_s> did you change the default folder icon a bit iirc?
<kwwii_> we are constantly changing it :-)
<troy_s> laf
<kwwii_> actually, that is pretty close to the final version
<kwwii_> although I like the earlier perspective better
<troy_s> it looks like the corners got rounded a little etc.
<kwwii_> now we have to decide whether to use brown or blue
<troy_s> or purple or green judging from that preview
<troy_s> that xara colour linking is pretty incredible
<kwwii_> nahhhh, we only include the wierd colors for people to play with
<kwwii_> I talked to sladen about including xara in ubuntu
<kwwii_> and it looks like edgy+1 is doable
<PingunZ> If my opinion is allowed the blue folder icons is the best from far :)
<sladen> kwwii_: we're stuck in multiverse for the moment.  Bigger things for edgy+1 I think :)
<kwwii_> hi sladen :-)
<kwwii_> too bad for that, but multiverse is better than no-verse :-)
<kwwii_> sladen: did you get my email with the file locations?
<sladen> kwwii_: I don't remember seeing it
<kwwii_> http://bootsplash.org/[3-5] 
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<kwwii_> hi fschoep
<PingunZ> hey fschoep
<fschoep> Heyguys
<troy_s> woot franko
<kwwii_> man, the home team is here
<fschoep> I'm here for a few minutes, I'm off to bed soon, sorry
<troy_s> yah i can appreciate that
<fschoep> Didn't want to miss to chance to see you guys
<fschoep> :)
<PingunZ> * read *
<kwwii_> I spent the day being anthropologized ;-)
<fschoep> Hehe, is Andreas over at your place?
<kwwii_> yepp
<fschoep> Hi Andreas
<kwwii_> we spent a lovely day together and then my wife cooked him a healthy german meal :-)
<troy_s> andreas???  say hi to him from me.
<troy_s> as in lloyd?
<fschoep> Yes
<kwwii_> well, he is not here now, but he will be back tomorrow
<fschoep> Ah, I see
<troy_s> great guy.
<kwwii_> yeah, it has been fun
<PingunZ> fschoep: Have you got a minute for me ? ( forum thingie again :) )
<fschoep> PingunZ: no, sorry to be honest ;)
<fschoep> I'm going to bed
<PingunZ> No problem :)
<fschoep> I'll be around this weekend.
<PingunZ> Good night ;)
<fschoep> I promise
<fschoep> You too!
<PingunZ> me ?
<PingunZ> ah :)
<PingunZ> bah I'd better go to bed too :p
<fschoep> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-02
<kwwii_> ngith all
<kwwii_> erm
<kwwii_> night all
<Seveas> troy_s, I now have usplash on 1024x768x256 with a .png progressbar which can also pulsate (may be required soon). Now all I have to do is implement BOGL font handling for the svga part and all the usplash crack I can think of is there
<Seveas> I hope mjg59 accepts most of it ;)
<kwwii_> moin
<sladen> Seveas: pulsate? :)
<Seveas> sladen, crappy video: http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/usplash.avi
<Seveas> you can't see it but the progressbar is also a .png
<sladen> ACCESS DENIED
<sladen> Seveas: chmod o+r usplash.avi
<Seveas> damn scp
<Seveas> how do I make scp take UMASK into account on the remote machine?
<Seveas> (it's readable now btw)
<kwwii_> wow, now that is a screenshot
<Seveas> btw: I hate ati
<Seveas> too many modeswitches and my machine hangs
<Seveas> and unfortunately usplash testing involves modechanges
<Seveas> sladen, looks pretty decent, eh (apart from the general crappyness of the video) ;)
<sladen> Seveas: scp -p usplash.avi seveas@machine.example.com:public_html
<Seveas> hmm, it never occured to me to use -p for that
<Seveas> thanks!
<troy_s> seveas you rock
<PingunZ> Why is that troy_s ?
<troy_s> usplash stuff.
<PingunZ> Is it working ?
<PingunZ> the high res + high color ?
<Seveas> PingunZ, only i386+amd64
<PingunZ> I have i386
<PingunZ> And edgy so it should work ..
<PingunZ> How can i test it and what shoudl I do ?
<Seveas> it works on dapper too ;) (I'm still on dapper)
<Seveas> You can't test yet
<Seveas> I want to implement one more required thing
<PingunZ> Well, pro's like you guys need stability :)
<PingunZ> Ok, let us know when we can test it and how to make smashing usplash' :)
<PingunZ> Seveas: Will it be included in Edgy ?
<Seveas> PingunZ, I hope so
* PingunZ too
<Seveas> it depends on having a ppc implementation
<PingunZ> I hope you succeed
<PingunZ> Btw, Will it be hard to make a usplash with a custom throbber ?
<troy_s> seveas
<troy_s> do you happen to know the specs basically?
<troy_s> and don't hate ati
<Seveas> PingunZ, no it isn't
<troy_s> apparently AMD is going to open source a limited set of their cards now that they own them
<PingunZ> omg Seveas you're a god :)
<Seveas> troy_s, I know the specs -- I implemented it ;)
<troy_s> believe it or not. :)
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> well... enlighten me
<PingunZ> * us :)
<troy_s> did you see msikma's usplash mock?
<troy_s> i originally planned to use a spotlight approach, and your additions make it feasible it appears.
<Seveas> troy_s, yes, themes can include custom animations
<Seveas> but they have to be programmed, just like custom throbbers
<Seveas> and all frames need to use the exact same pallette
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> do you have a code snippit?
<troy_s> palette mapping is dead easy for me since i have become an imagemagick zealot
<troy_s> that set of tools is bloody remarkable.
<Seveas> basically, a function is called 25 times a second to let you draw the next 'frame'
<troy_s> and you use what to draw the frame?  svgalib?
<Seveas> svgalib on i386/amd64, bogl on ppc
<troy_s> wow... the possibilities are quite massive on that.
<Seveas> but with platform-agnostic wrappers
<troy_s> are there any limits on the frames etc?
<Seveas> 256 colors
<troy_s> numerically speaking
<troy_s> 256 is no limit really -- unless you are a die hard grad freak.
<Seveas> I have a very decent 256 color splash
<Seveas> see that movie I posted
<Seveas> http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/usplash.avi
<troy_s> yes i checked it out...
<Seveas> movie itself is crap, but it shows some possibilities
<troy_s> so the progress bar is ???
<troy_s> is that progress bar a variation on the 25fps function?
<troy_s> or a sep issue?
<troy_s> could you email me the code snippit so I could peep at it and possibly get a working usplash for your code?
<Seveas> the progress bar is inside the 25fps function
<Seveas> that function gets as argument whether the thing is pulsating or not
<Seveas> but font unification first, then I'll send code ;)
<troy_s> i don't want the code code, just the code for the function so i can wrap my head around it.
<troy_s> and by pulsating, i couldn't quite get what you mean from your vid.
<troy_s> slick looking though... very slick.
<Seveas> with pulsating I mean the thing moving from left to right and back
<troy_s> ahh i see... of course we could do any number of things... does that progress bar in your sample consist of only the
<troy_s> image area?
<troy_s> or is it a smaller box that is moved
<troy_s> etc?
<Seveas> it is a part of an image rendered again every step
<Seveas> every time a different part of the image
<troy_s> same dimensions no doubt?
<Seveas> yes, same dimensions
<troy_s> ahh great.
<PingunZ> Seveas: So It'll be 1280*1024 && 256 colors ?
<troy_s> well i must sleep.  just got in from work and need to hit the GDM stone tomorrow to finish up the other variation
<troy_s> bloody dox for gdm are rather limited.
<Seveas> PingunZ, my idea is 640x400x256 default, but making it asy (and providing the themes) to use a higher resolution
<Seveas> my display can't use 1280x1024 for instance
<troy_s> 640x400@8bpp is pretty bloody good.
<troy_s> compared to where we are at
<troy_s> especially if it abides by the ubuntu 'no touch kernel' approach.
<Seveas> indeed
<Seveas> and it's all in userspace
<troy_s> how swell is that...
<troy_s> who is responsible for the approval on usplash?
<Seveas> mjg59 has to accept my patches into his source
<Seveas> I've e-mailed him about ot, but no response yet
<troy_s> is this in conjuntion with scott's work on usplah?
<troy_s> usplash even
<Seveas> scott wants to use usplash for boot logging
<Seveas> and translated boot messages
<PingunZ> Seveas: What about 800*600*256 ?
<Seveas> PingunZ, what about it?
<PingunZ> as default :)
<Seveas> dunno
<sladen> PingunZ: it will try to boot in the same resolution as your X detected would be correct
<PingunZ> That would be cool :)
<troy_s> greets sladen
<troy_s> seveas -- doesn't scott have a usplash in the works as well?  usplash2?
<troy_s> frank was in contact on it so that we could ultimately try to target it.
<troy_s> but ... its so damn late now it might be hard to target its traits.
<troy_s> bed.
<troy_s> chat you folks tomorrow.
<troy_s> be good brothers.
<PingunZ> Bye troy_s
<fschoep> bersace: The right man in the right place! I just sent you an e-mail.
<PingunZ> hey fschoep :)
<fschoep> Hi PingunZ
<bersace> fschoep: *I*'v just sent you (back) an e-mail !! :P
<fschoep> Oh dear, let me get it
<PingunZ> Do you have a minute now fschoep ? ( the forum idea --> again )
<fschoep> PingunZ: sure, PM me ;)
<PingunZ> ok ;)
<fschoep> bersace: thanks, good news - I'll e-mail you the plan, OK?
<bersace> fschoep: nice
<kwwii_> I never get emails from you guys :-(
<fschoep> kwwii_: I sent you one the other day
<kwwii_> fschoep: must have made it to my span folder :p
<kwwii_> ehhh...spam
<kwwii_> just kidding though
<fschoep> Oh, you did get it, then?
<kwwii_> yepp, about the sound, right?
<fschoep> Indeed
<troy_s> fschoep here in 15 mins
<troy_s> okie?
<fschoep> I think so
<fschoep> troy_s: for now, OK
<troy_s> hello exs
<exs> hi
<Viper550> Hello everyone...
<fschoep> Hi Viper550
<Viper550> Edgy is coming along nicely I see...
<Viper550> kwwii_, you said that you were going to give me the new Kubuntu buttons for Crystal? Why not post them on the Wiki?
<kwwii_> Viper550: I thought you didn't want the SVG? guess I misunderstood, I'll put 'em on the wiki as you suggest
<Viper550> Yeah...I wanted the source for the actual buttons that could be compiled, not the source of the buttons!
<kwwii_> hehe, you can either get it from apt (install kde) or download it from kde-look.org
<Viper550> The crystal tarball I compiled (0.42) comes with the Kubuntu Dapper buttons, but not the Edgy ones of course
<kwwii_> good point....I have two svgs and an xcf file to put 'em all together
<kwwii_> I'll put it all on the wiki
<Viper550> I just need a tarball with the new Kubuntu buttons so I can overwrite them in the source code and recompile it
<kwwii_> http://bootsplash.org/kwin-style-crystal_kensPics.tar.gz
<Viper550> thanks...
* Viper550 goes to recompile Crystal
<Viper550> AWESOME!
<Viper550> Although the tarball you gave me was a tad broken (make gave me errors), I just copied the buttons from your tarball into the folder for my current Crystal and recompiled, and after I restarted KDE, it worked!
<kwwii_> it was simply a tar, not a tar.gz
<kwwii_> sorry
<kwwii_> I forgot to type z
<Viper550> whoops...but still! I got it to work properly, and they are nice!
<Viper550> Looks interesting with one of the gloss overlays from the wiki, adds an extra gloss to the buttons!
<kwwii_> :-)
<Viper550> Yep...nice!
<Viper550> Speaking of gloss, did you get a chance to check out my panel background?
<kwwii_> Viper550: nope, but I'll download it now
<Viper550> Thanks, oh and the buttons look nice with Transparency enabled (although the Crystal that comes with Kubuntu has transparency support removed)
<kwwii_> I tried that last night, they do look good
<kwwii_> hehe
<kwwii_> bye
<Viper550> I'm back...
<kwwii_> dude, killer panel bg
<Viper550> Thanks!
<PingunZ> Bah, I wish I liked kde so I could use your art :)
<Viper550> PingunZ: Can't you use Custom Panel BG's on Gnome as well?
<kwwii_> PingunZ: :p
<PingunZ> Viper550: Yes, but the panel is only one thing :)
<Viper550> ??? - But that's the only art I have posted for it right now
<PingunZ> Viper550: I was talking about all the art on the Kubuntu-edgy-Ideas page
<PingunZ> Bah, I shut up :p
<Viper550> Oh...but some of it (like wallpapers), could be used on Gnome
<PingunZ> Yup :)
<PingunZ> But I shoot those myself :)
<Viper550> Have there been any comments from testers about the new look for Kubuntu yet?
<Viper550> Have we had any comments about the look of Kubuntu Knot 2?
<kwwii_> yepp, everyone pretty much loves it :-)
<kwwii_> very good response so far
<kwwii_> the biggest negative response has been about the yellow/orange in the middle of the gradient
<kwwii_> people like purple!
<Viper550> Yeah (that's what I not like either)
<Viper550> Well, if you wonder how my desktop looks right now: http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7247_purpleandgloss.png
<PingunZ> Viper550: As a Gnome-freak :: That screenshot is pretty slick :)
<PingunZ> The metacity is really nice !
<Viper550> I'm not using Gnome.
<PingunZ> Viper550: I'm the gnome-freak
<Viper550> KDE.
<PingunZ> bah :p
<PingunZ> Ok, let me rephrase that .. I like the kwin theme :)
<Viper550> Yeah, Crystal, with the buttons from Edgy!
<PingunZ> The panel background is really nice too :)
<Viper550> That's the one I'm trying to get included with Edgy
<PingunZ> I like it :)
<PingunZ> Btw, when you resize the panel --> what happens with the image ? is it scalable ?
<Viper550> It's tiled horizontally
<PingunZ> Can't you make it in .svg so it becomes scalable or is that impossible ? :)
<PingunZ> Just an idea ..
<Viper550> Can't, scales nice
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<Seveas> troy_s, there's a very non-trivial chance that my usplash work will be integrated for edgy
<Seveas> which rocks
* PingunZ seconds that !
<Viper550> Well, I do have a picture of my desktop from when I did use Ubuntu 5.10: http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marchubuntulooks7ne.jpg
<Viper550> Does anyone still have the gtkrc from the old orange Ubuntulooks?
<troy_s> seveas keep me posted.
<Seveas> troy_s, will do
* PingunZ is following a guide for inkscape :)
<PingunZ> Hey Seveas, any updates yet ?
<Seveas> yes, I just finished font unification
<Seveas> pushed it to launchpad
<Seveas> I'll be sending a .deb for my usplash version and the theme to the artwork list tomorrow
<Seveas> so people can comment on it.
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<PingunZ> Great work man !
<PingunZ> Seveas: ping !
<Seveas> what?
<PingunZ> Well, #ubuntuforums ain't really the right channel for usplash ...
<Seveas> hehe
<Seveas> well, I'd love it if the rumour spreads
<Seveas> btw: I'm also taking over the cipherfunk packages
<PingunZ> If you want rumours ? I can bring you rumours :)
<Seveas> rumours are good
<PingunZ> Oki
<Seveas> spread the link of that crappy video
* PingunZ is starting a thread in ubuntuforums ...
<PingunZ> Can I have the link again ?
<Seveas> http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/usplash.avi
<PingunZ> Ty, I'll try to spread it a lot !
<PingunZ> I'm pretty good in that :D
<PingunZ> Seveas: The specs are 800*600*256 and customizable throbber etc ?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> as high resolution as your screen supports
<PingunZ> That's even better :)
<Seveas> 256 colors is right
<Seveas> customizable drawing (not just throbber)
<Seveas> and animation!
<Seveas> (and no ppc version yet, i need a ppc machine!)
<PingunZ> Oki :)
<Seveas> tell that too, maybe someone will donate one ;)
<PingunZ> haha
<PingunZ> I'm starting a thread about this in ubuntuforums.org, ok ?
<PingunZ> Bah, the forums are kinda slow atm ..
<PingunZ> I'll do it later
<PingunZ> Seveas: What's the launchpad link ?
<Seveas> /products/usplash/+branches/
<Seveas> select 'theming' there
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<BHSPitMonkey> hey all.
<Seveas> hi BHSPitMonkey
<BHSPitMonkey> what's up?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-03
<PingunZ> Seveas: When should I tell them to expect it on their desky ?
<PingunZ> ( usplash )
<Seveas> hopefuly edgy -- I'll be poking at mjg59 soon. But NO PROMISES!
<PingunZ> What is mjg59 ?
<Seveas> who
<Seveas> who is mjg59
<Seveas> he's a person ;)
<PingunZ> Ah :)
<Seveas> Matthew Garrett, usplash maintainer
<PingunZ> New nick & name learned today :)
<PingunZ> I'll give you the link to the thread, tell me what should be added. http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1455072#post1455072
<PingunZ> hey virogenesis
<virogenesis> hey
<BHSPitMonkey> so does the artwork team cover sounds, too? or is that kept separate
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: It covers sound too :)
<BHSPitMonkey> cool
<PingunZ> In fact, there will be new login/logout sounds in edgy if I'm right.
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm an artist of sorts, both graphical and musical, but my digital graphics skills are pretty novice, useless here.
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm sure there's enough talent already in the sound department, too; the sounds in dapper are awesome
<BHSPitMonkey> but I'm just putting it out there, that I'd be happy to do whatever I can
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: I'm not talented either, you can help a lot by giving your opinion. And you can learn a lot too ;)
<BHSPitMonkey> cool
<virogenesis> will any tango eye candy be created?
<BHSPitMonkey> what's tango, exactly
<BHSPitMonkey> </noob>
<BHSPitMonkey> Seveas, that bootsplash is your work?
<virogenesis> http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project <-- BHSPitMonkey
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: its a usplash and yes ;)
<virogenesis> thats tango
<PingunZ> virogenesis: The tango icons are in dapper yet :)
<BHSPitMonkey> right... so it's full-res, animation friendly, themable? as opposed to the current low-pallette, static fb one?
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: yup :)
<virogenesis> PingunZ, i know that but....
<virogenesis> more tango like a tango style boot screen
<virogenesis> a tango style ubuntu icon for the panel
<BHSPitMonkey> PingunZ, that's awesome...
<PingunZ> usplash ? We'll see how the usplash turns out.
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: Thank Seveas ;)
<BHSPitMonkey> right
<BHSPitMonkey> Seveas, bravo :)
<PingunZ> Seveas: I love this idea : http://www.kaarsemaker.net/images/usplash-viewer.png
<BHSPitMonkey> PingunZ, is that a mock-up?
<PingunZ> I think so
<BHSPitMonkey> I like the dummy entries in the preview window ^^
<BHSPitMonkey> what language is his site?
<PingunZ> Dutch
<PingunZ> Should I translate it ? :)
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm trying to :P
<PingunZ> try babelfish
<BHSPitMonkey> I did
<BHSPitMonkey> lol
<BHSPitMonkey> and it worked
<BHSPitMonkey> but semi-successfully, as always; I lost interest :P
<troy_s> seveas, ship me that code for updating the throbber/progress image
<troy_s> A) there will be no tango
<troy_s> B) the sound team is still new, so you should feel free to get involved, peter savage.
<troy_s> okie virogenesis
<virogenesis> ok :(
<andreasn> huh? no tango where?
<troy_s> in the default installation of ubuntu
<troy_s> in terms of look
<andreasn> ah, I thought it has been removed as a dep for human or something
<andreasn> my mistake
<andreasn> sorry, not has, had I mean
<troy_s> nothing has changed regarding the packages etc of tango as far as i know
<andreasn> ok, cool
<troy_s> andreasn do you know when gaussian blur will be in inkscape?
<troy_s> or a feather or something akin to it?
<andreasn> troy_s: someone told me it's in already
<andreasn> troy_s: in the svn repositories
<troy_s> ?!?!?!?!?
<andreasn> tried to compile it earlier today, but kind of gave up on it
<troy_s> wow... must checkout!
<troy_s> have you got inkboard working yet?
<troy_s> i think it is possible
<andreasn> yeah, it's a kickass feature
<troy_s> it is configure --enable-inkboard or something like that correct?
<andreasn> no, haven't got that running, haven't tried either as I've haven't had any use of it yet
<troy_s> i would love it if someone would document how to do it on the wiki
<troy_s> ah
<troy_s> have you tried xara?
<andreasn> only briefly at Libre Graphics Meeting
<troy_s> svg import (most rudimentary) is in place and it is maturing rapidly
<troy_s> it is an amazing program
<troy_s> _awsome_
<troy_s> version 7 is well worth trying if you haven't tried it in a while.
<andreasn> ah, Inkboard is in the wiki already: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Inkboard2.0
<troy_s> as it looks like 8 should see svg import / export working in a limited state
<troy_s> thanks for that link
<troy_s> it is probably going to be a useful tool for the team at some point.
<andreasn> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/InkboardWikiPages
<andreasn> was anyone on the ubuntu-art list interested in the highcontrast icons btw?
<troy_s> completely
<troy_s> in fact frank was just setting that into motion getting them ready for the deadline
<troy_s> if i recall...
<troy_s> pingunz did a listing of all missing ones
<troy_s> and frank forwarded it to bersace
<troy_s> but i am quite sure that if you could help, your aid would be more than welcome
<troy_s> you should contact frank via email and he will provide you with the plan / checklist etc.
<andreasn> well, I just sent a couple to Thomas Wood earlier today
<troy_s> great
<andreasn> hopefully they'll go into the 2.16 release
<troy_s> you should tell frank as well.
<troy_s> pretty sure he would be interested in that tidbit of information
<troy_s> wonder why the participation in the channel is higher again...
<troy_s> i suspect another digg article or something.
<andreasn> I always idle her
<andreasn> e
<andreasn> :)
<troy_s> i know _you_ do
<troy_s> but there are some new nicks i don't recall.
<troy_s> which usually is a sign that somewhere an article has bubbled up
<BHSPitMonkey> and I just wandered in here...
<troy_s> nice luck
<BHSPitMonkey> :P
<troy_s> well for us
<troy_s> more people is better
<BHSPitMonkey> heh
<BHSPitMonkey> there are no coincidences...
<troy_s> andreasn!!!
<troy_s> blur is in there!
<troy_s> wooooooop
<andreasn> totall kickass
<andreasn> just hope the bug in librsvg is fixed now
<troy_s> what bug?
* PingunZ goes to sleep, night all
<BHSPitMonkey> night PingunZ
<andreasn> troy_s: last time I tried (with some crack I got from AndyFitz) it displayed the blur a bit weird in librsvg
<andreasn> it was some crack from AndyFitz though :)
<troy_s> it does have some internal rendering issues
<troy_s> but it seems to work fine
<BHSPitRemotey> hi all
<troy_s> greets all
<PingunZ> hey troy
<viper550> Hello everyone...
<PingunZ_> kwwii_: About the purple kubuntu look on the forums : " It has something special, but I think not many men are going to like it, I think they should at least include the blue theme so that it is possible to change again, but well  it gives Kubuntu character I'd say. " roflmao
<PingunZ_> Its a quote btw ;) Not my opinion
<kwwii_> :-)
<kwwii_> "macho, macho, man....I wanna be a macho man!"
<Burgundavia> kwwii_: anything interesting happen in artwork last week?
<kwwii_> Burgundavia: yeah, my amarrok crapped out on my, so I couldn't keep working on the new theme
<PingunZ_> kwwii_: true :)
<kwwii_> :p
<Burgundavia> right
<PingunZ_> btw kwwii_ that macho thing from mastermovies.nl ?
<kwwii_> PingunZ_: nope, just from my humble self
<PingunZ_> nice :)
<PingunZ_> I'm going to send a mail to the artwork mailing list, do I have to start the subject with [ubuntu-art]  or is that automatically ?
<Burgundavia> that is done
<PingunZ_> Burgundavia: I don't have to type it ?
<Burgundavia> nope
<PingunZ_> ok :)
<PingunZ_> check your mails in a minute then :)
<PingunZ_> Yup, sent
<PingunZ_> That was kinda stressful :)
<PingunZ_> Well, I'm out.. I won't be around that much anymore since school starts again ..
<PingunZ_> Good night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-27
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hi
<Skiessi> do people ever talk here?
<terlmann> hello kwwii , Skiessi
<Skiessi> hi
<terlmann> have you checked out this yet ? -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Gutsy/Wallpaper
<terlmann> I mean kwwii
<terlmann> nice edit. only one point to your edits though : you just adjust color. are you certain our eyes are off and not your moniter ;-) ?
<terlmann> still, this recent edit to the lion page : its good. you did correct the color a little bit.
<terlmann> only one thing to watch for and that is this : adjust too much and the realisticness goes away.
<terlmann> mind if I send you a file ?
<Skiessi> me? go ahead
<terlmann> it's a good pic
<terlmann> landscape
<terlmann> worthy, even , of ubuntru
<Skiessi> ok..
<terlmann> just thought I'd share it around.
<Skiessi> umm, what's that blur on the ground?
<terlmann> water , and its on the camera
<Skiessi> :o you sent another one?
<terlmann> check out the penguin with the cymbals . 14 kb.
<Skiessi> ..I guess I have seen it
<terlmann> ok
<terlmann> I have , I think , the biggest collection of Mr. T photoshops around. spot any and send em to me. its soo funny to see, say, Mr. T as yoda. AHAHAHAHA
<terlmann> I think I will do some myself sometime
<Skiessi> I just can't think that as water :/
<terlmann> hmm
<terlmann> check this out. no blurs. just the good stuff.
<terlmann> if you thought the other was blurry, this one isn't
<terlmann> and lucky., its not from redmond
<terlmann> hey kwwii
<terlmann> Wakeup mon and feel the breeze. or someting like that
<terlmann> I think I'm going to die laughing. http://www.worth1000.com/cache/contest/contestcache.asp?contest_id=16433&start=11&end=20&display=photoshop#entries
<terlmann> Captain Vista
<terlmann> ROFFL
<kwwii_> re
<kwwii> terlmann: while I like the colors used, I think that the lion pics are missing some luminesence somehow
<lapo> hi
<Skiessi> hi
<wousser> where can i found any information about the logo itself?
<kwwii> wousser: the wiki
<kwwii> wousser: what exactly do you need to know?
<wousser> kwwii: i couldnt find anything on the wiki, only edubuntu, gobuntu etc
<wousser> kwwii: i would like to know some standard information how they found the logo, why the three people..
<kwwii> wousser: hrm, good question...not sure if there is any info on that anywhere really
<kwwii> wousser: if you need it for something important I can ask (I work for canonical)
<wousser> kwwii: it's not important.. my girlfriend needs to describe some logo's and I showed her the ubuntu logo. I've found something in the comments about the ubuntu mascot
<wousser> kwwii: but it's nice to have a wiki page about it
<kwwii> wousser: yeah, not a bad idea
<terlmann> kwii
<terlmann> if I could get a similar image to the one I used
<terlmann> but with wayy higher res
<terlmann> it would come out better
<terlmann> did you laugh at the penguin ?
<kwwii> terlmann: actually I never received the pic you tried to send me
<terlmann> well then take it and have a laugh
<Skiessi> me too
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> you need to add an ubuntu logo to the cymbals and a big MS logo on the bear
<terlmann> ahh...
<Skiessi> ..that one
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-28
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<chymera1> any idea what haooend to the ubuntu-artwork group in launchpad?
<chymera1> *happened
<chymera1> or did the exact same thing happen here?
<chymera1> echo.......
<chymera_> anyone here?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-29
<swj> anyone here
<lapo> hi
<lassegul> hi people. Whats new?
<dilomo> hello everybody
<dilomo> what's up with the artwork
<dilomo> I've been at the sea for 2 months and
<dilomo> there should be smth new over here
<dilomo> right?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-30
<lapo> hi
<lassegul> hi
<lapo> kwwii_: any news about the default bg?
<kwwii_> lapo: still working on some new stuff
<kwwii_> lapo: btw, if you need any changes in tangerine you can talk to me  - dholbach is kinda changing positions within the company
<lapo> ok, cool
<kwwii_> on monday he is going to start training me so I can go for MOTU :-)
<kwwii_> so I get to become a real geek
<lapo> eheh
<lapo> kwwii_: make sure your hacking side will not prevail tho, or we will loose a graphician :-)
<kwwii_> hehe, no worries
<andreasn> kwwii_: will that be accompanied by the "Eye of the Tiger"-song ;)
<kwwii_> andreasn: yes, and funky pics of me in a jogging suit running and sweating
<andreasn> hahaha
<lapo> kwwii_: try shouting "adriana"
<kwwii_> lapo: my wife Petra might look at me funny ;-)
<lapo> kwwii_: not that funny eventually :-)
<kwwii_> it almost scares me that I will become responsible for all the artwork packaging
<kwwii_> luckily there are not too many packages
<lapo> kwwii_: tango common really needs to be killed, so one down eventually :-)
<kwwii_> and once I do it for Ubuntu, I just know that kubuntu, gobuntu, and edubuntu will want me to do the same for them
<lapo> kwwii: ok, you're in trouble then, good luck :-)
<kwwii> I'll do my best
<lapo> j #ubuntu-desktop
<lapo> ehm sorry
<lassegul> kwwii: have you had time to do some more work on gutys wallpapers?
<kwwii> lassegul: yes, I have been working on that as well - there will be a few new pics along the lines of "brownfluid" coming soon
<lassegul> kwwii: Thats good. I suggest you use a little less white in your colours. what you threw up on the wiki looks a little dull. im really looking forward to see what you do!
<troy_s> Does the 'go' in gobuntu short for 'go'odchrist?
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gobuntu_logo
<andreasn> what's a Gobuntu?
<lassegul> andreasn: Gobuntu is an official derivative of the Ubuntu operating system, aiming to provide a distribution consisting entirely of free software.
<andreasn> ah, that one. I think Richard mentioned it
<lassegul> troy_s: why should it be short for goodchrist?
<troy_s> lassegul: Rather like someone smacking their head and screaming out 'good f-ing christ'
<troy_s> lassegul: Those could be the most naff set of logo attempts I have ever seen.
<kwwii> hi troy_s
<kwwii> troy_s: why did you take down your wallpaper? It was one of the best ones on the page
<kwwii> btw, if anyone is interested here is the usplash I whipped up for gobuntu:
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/gobuntu_usplash.svg
<lassegul> which wp was that?
<kwwii> gobuntu is the ubuntu for people who get picky about everything being completely free and OSS in their linux
<troy_s> kwwii: It just was too far off the beaten track as given by the samples.  And it needed to be pushed a little further along finished.
<troy_s> kwwii: Good christ -- does sab insist on the progress bars?
<kwwii> troy_s: erm, progress bars in the usplash you mean?
<troy_s> kwwii: Yes.
<kwwii> troy_s: I was looking for the SVG of your background to work on some ideas...any chance I could download it somewhere?
<troy_s> kwwii: The arch has quite a bit of flexibility, but no one has challenged it yet.
<troy_s> kwwii: We did a pretty impressive one for Flux, but it isn't out yet.
<kwwii> troy_s: no, we could use a spinner (or whatever you call it) too but someone would have to program it first
<kwwii> troy_s: cool, can't wait to see it
<troy_s> kwwii: Yeah.  The optics on gobuntu's design look like they are already out of the gate with a limp.  The recycling bin arrows just leave me going 'wtf'.  It seems as though the brainstorm phase was rather crippled.
<kwwii> the gobuntu usplash was a case of "the one they had looked really bad" and I was told not to work on that too much as it should be totaly community driven
<troy_s> kwwii: I don't know where sab sees 'recycle' (rather strong motif at this point) mixed with 'freedom'
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> hrm.
<troy_s> interesting.
<lassegul> troy_s: whos in charge?
<troy_s> lassegul: Not the guy to ask about anything Canonical does.  Kwwii is.
<kwwii> troy_s: I do not think that he had much to do with that, really
<lassegul> troy_s: ok
<troy_s> lassegul: As far as I can see, Ubuntu is doomed by the decision makers -- being two figures.
<lassegul> troy_s: and those two are?
<kwwii> my personal opinion about gobuntu is that it was created so people would stop complaining about the restricted drivers in Ubuntu
<troy_s> kwwii: It is sad that sab is pushing towards brown fluid (which is again -- soooooo bloody dated) -- your textured / atomic rings were interesting I thought.
<troy_s> kwwii: That said, that elephant texture caught me off guard.
<kwwii> troy_s: actually, he has not responded on the brownfluid stuff - but I assume that it is closest to what he will like
<kwwii> yeah, the elephant tex looks pretty killer, just not sure about the link to africa
<troy_s> kwwii: Yeah... it's pretty simple -- figure out what was the mainstream acceptable Win95 wallpaper from about 10 years prior to the date of launch.
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> we really want to stick to something more abstract
<troy_s> kwwii: The african thing is bong.  The texture itself has much to work out of.
<kwwii> true
<troy_s> kwwii: Although it is rather uniform in presentation there.  I would think you could do some sort of vignette work with it in layers or something... who knows.  It would need some brainstorming exploration.
<lassegul> kwwii: is there a problem as to putting it as secondary wallpaper, like chocolate is for feisty and dawn was for edgy?
<kwwii> lassegul: in the end, the full decision rests on sabdfl...I can kinda point people in the direction that I think he will like, little more than that
<troy_s> lassegul: chocolate was another abortion attempt by jmak to meet some sabdfl driving.
<kwwii> lassegul: nope, no problems with that at all
<troy_s> (of which I had the displeasure of participating in a portion of that mess.)
<kwwii> once again, I will tell everyone that we can include additional artwork from the community without any problems - if anyone would just step up and work on it
<lassegul> how does a detailed a crisp picture like the elephant thing look when its downscaled to 1024x768? and what is the default size WPs are shipped in?
<kwwii> it seems that people are only interested in working on the stuff that will be default
<troy_s> kwwii: I would be impressed if someone would at least work out of the damn samples presented (aside from that gag dapper wall lol)
<kwwii> if nothing else, in another week or so I will take the ones I think are best and put them in a community artwork package
<troy_s> kwwii: Those two wallpapers are at least a step towards communication.
<kwwii> troy_s: agreed
<troy_s> kwwii: I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt though -- until someone reads a fundamental bloody piece of literature of how colours are presented in the human mind, Ubuntu is doomed to hear the 'I can't stand brown' argument again and again.
<kwwii> troy_s: not to be mean, but I was wondering what people were thinking...we posted those older wallpapers and then people kept submitting blue stuff and things completely off-track
<troy_s> kwwii: Without a supporting cast of NON BROWN colours (obviously keeping brown as a base), the tone will lose its impact and be tuned out.
<troy_s> kwwii: Yep.  It is again, fine for a brainstorm.
<troy_s> kwwii: The problem is, again, no driving.
<kwwii> troy_s: yes, we definitely need to move on and expand our colors from brown on brown
<lassegul> troy_s: how about making the goal a little clearer. because i cant really see what you mean by "working out of the damn samples". I used the colours, and i thought i would add a little gloss, and then i thought i liked darker colours, and so it kinda evolved. so it started from the samples
<troy_s> lassegul: The samples are pretty clear.
<lassegul> troy_s: then everyone else is just stupid?
<troy_s> lassegul: In my brain I see largely two things -- a certain 'mystical / magical' impact from the sweeps.
<troy_s> lassegul: And perhaps a tinkering of 'awe' conjured up from those rather awe inspiring images of nebulae / starforms.
<kwwii> lassegul: I think that of all the pics on the wiki yours are probably the closest, in color, to what we need
<kwwii> but for Gutsy we really need to look at the ideas of luminance and a bit of the design ideas from the older pics
<troy_s> lassegul: But in terms of _every_ sample on that wiki, not one vaguely hammers home any of those keystones.
<lassegul> troy_s: Ok, thats a lot easier then
<troy_s> lassegul: Further, gloss is dead.  I will give kwwii full credit for abolishing most of the gloss in Ubuntu.
<kwwii> gloss is sooo 2000
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> lassegul: It reeks of 1950-1960 boraxification.
<troy_s> lassegul: During that era, the consumers were flooded with chroming / glossing of _everything_.  It quickly became tacky.
<lassegul> troy_s: :)
<troy_s> lassegul: Which is where that fecking reflection floor / gloss is.
<troy_s> lassegul: Unfortunately, mainstream only has about two large design directions to see -- Windows and Apple.  Free Software has the potential to offer them sooooo many more alternatives.
<lassegul> troy_s: i think you still can add some shine to things and still look good.
<kwwii> troy_s: as far as driving things go, as soon as I felt I had a good chance at starting that I was given enough work to overload and kill any real hope of managing things like that
<troy_s> lassegul: That said, simply abandoning gloss isn't an end unto itself.  It must be filled with another distinct and well evolved style.
<lassegul> troy_s: fedora did the sharp edges and cool vector shapes thing
<troy_s> lassegul: Good luck on that.  I encourage you to have a peek at some of the more contemporary / avante garde design work out there.
<lassegul> troy_s: we want magical lights?
<troy_s> lassegul: if anything you will see a migration to an almost art-deco / constructionist two dimensionality.
<lassegul> troy_s: do you have an example? (never attended art school)
<troy_s> lassegul: Ask kwwii -- he pretty much offered up the two samples.  The idea would probably be to knock something off in identical stylings but different in execution.
<troy_s> lassegul: Erk.  Maybe.  (I really should bed.)  Give me a second.
<lassegul> troy_s: thanks
<troy_s> http://www.exhibitbuilder.net/Images/Jill_Art_JPG/MR_ART_DECO_2.jpg http://www.hgd.com/gallery/images_gallery/art_deco_lady_silver_250.jpg
<troy_s> thats deco more or less
<troy_s> although the entire movement goes much further than artwork -- into furniture etc.
<troy_s> http://www.pauahtun.org/Exile/soviet-commercial-design-1a.jpg
<lassegul> omg thats horrble :)
* kwwii reboots, brb
<troy_s> that's constructivism.
<lassegul> ah  thats nice
<troy_s> well it is only nice because you are starting to see it again
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> that is how fickle art consumption is.
<lassegul> troy_s: me and a buddy made this for our organisation once http://spiderrico.deviantart.com/art/Kraftsosialisme-40531830
<lassegul> and this one: http://spiderrico.deviantart.com/art/Darth-Kader-2-40532390
<lassegul> is this something like what you had in mind?
<troy_s> lassegul: I have no control of anything and therefore I have nothing 'in mind'.
<troy_s> darth-kader is very constructivist however.
<troy_s> lassegul: You are cueing on a style that has been repeated many many times.
<troy_s> lassegul: And it was entirely successful during its era.
<lassegul> troy_s: what era is that? (the pictura is about 2 or 3 years old)
<troy_s> lassegul: Contemporary design is somewhere in a mix that I would estimate is 2 parts constructivism, 1 part art deco (which took MANY cues from constructivism), and 1.5 parts 60s psychedelia.
<lassegul> troy_s: ok, I think maybe ill have to read up on this to understand it.
<troy_s> lassegul: If you are interested in art, I would encourage you to pick up some references and learn a little about art history.  The upside is that you will learn very quickly that art doesn't exist in a vacuum.  Major 'movements' are always a reaction / statement to something contemporary societally.
<troy_s> lassegul: Hell -- even what many call 'classic composition' is rooted in a movement that took place during the Renaissance.
<troy_s> lassegul: The point is that when someone says something is 'pretty' or 'beautiful' it is always much more deeply rooted in societal values and learned behavior.
<troy_s> lassegul: And those societal values / contexts are constantly changing.  Ok... must jet.  Good night.
<troy_s> Night kwwii.
<troy_s> et al.
<kwwii> night troy_s
<lassegul> nigt troy_s
<lassegul> kwwii: but isnt design more equal to fashion than art,like what looks good is much more defined what the designers tend to design that year, than social change? Like the mac effect, when everybode wanted to make things look an ipod og a macbook?
<lassegul> art in soviet 1920s was defined by the revolution, desiging every bit of text with a reflection underneath it was just a trend this year, not some social change..
<lassegul> or am i making a nonexisting divide between art and design?
<kwwii> lassegul: I think that there are some similarities but as you mention, there is a difference between art and design
<kwwii> and I do think that the general trends in design change over time according to art, so in order to stay ahead of things it is important to see what is current in the art world
<kwwii> another important aspect is to see the design of the devices that the design will be displayed on as that plays a role in things as well
<kwwii> the wallpaper alone does not stand on its own
<lassegul> kwwii: thats true
<lassegul> kwwii: and interesting...
<lassegul> kwwii: dont know much about art, i think much of it is arrogant, and in fact so are many of the artists. But lets say: 2008 was the year of the green and dark macabre art. how would that affect the design world? remeber this is just a hyphotetical answer so just make a scenario..
<lassegul> kwwii: because i dont remember neither blue, magic lights or gloss being very popular in arts the last 10 years, even though they were the big thing a couple of years ago.
<kwwii> I would say that perhaps the macabre part would show up a bit...the green part really depends on branding more than just art
<kwwii> lassegul: good point
<lassegul> kwwii: ill go take a cigarette. be back in 5.
<kwwii> enjoy
<lassegul> it was good
<kwwii> luckily I have an office that I can smoke in :-)
<lassegul> What? where do you work? what country is this?
<lassegul> we have to go out, and stand 10 metres from the building because of the aircon
<kwwii> I live in Germany, but work from home anyway
<lassegul> well arent you the lucky one.
<kwwii> :p
<lassegul> what program is used to make the breezy and warty wallpapers? is it just vector or is it vector with bitmap editing later on?
<kwwii> it is bitmap stuff, done in either photoshop or gimp
<lassegul> I forced myself to learn GIMP and Inkscape because i wanted to contribute, and youre telling me those might be made in photoshop? ;-)
<kwwii> hehe, naturally you can use any tools you find helpful
<kwwii> but of course we would prefer if people used open source tools when possible
<lassegul> I thought i wasnt going to do any bitmap editing because everything i do in gimp just looks rotten
<kwwii> yeah, I often switch between photoshop and gimp when I cannot get what I need from gimp
<kwwii> most important is the artwork itself, not which program you used to make it
<lassegul> I thought that was to admit defeat
<kwwii> lol, never give up!
<lassegul> do you wine photosho`p?
<lassegul> *'
<kwwii> nope, I have two macs :-)
<lassegul> PS, here i come. wonder if I can get CS2 to work with wine
<kwwii> no idea
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o kwwii]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas
<kwwii> just updated that page with a LOT of pics from Joseph
<lassegul> nice
<lassegul> 1868 2361 4890 8363 5025 these are a little interesting, but still it just looks like someone made a brown background and drawed on it with some lighten-tool.
<lassegul> they are just sketches, right?
<kwwii> yepp, we still need to make the final artwork if something like this is chosen
<kwwii> they are all based on photographs :-)
<kwwii> funky, eh?
* kwwii makes a box of macaroni and cheese for a late lunch
<lassegul> yeah, what is it pictures of? flames?
<kwwii> it is a slow exposure of light
<lassegul> Downloading PS now, is it ok if i steal an idea from one of those and make it into my own version?
<kwwii> sure, no problem
<kwwii> ok, I am off for a while, bbl
<lassegul> see you
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<titanix88_> hello! help me sumitting my wallpaper.
<kwwii> titanix88_: what kind of help do you need?
<kwwii> just add it to the wiki
<titanix88_> kwwii: just figured out how to attach. thnx. u can see it in gusty incoming -wiredubuntu.comments plz.
<kwwii> hrm? gusty incoming -wiredubuntu.comments??? not sure what you mean
<titanix88_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas#preview
<titanix88_> the last submission :)
<kwwii> ahhh, now I see
<kwwii> for edubuntu
<kwwii> right?
<titanix88_> yes
<kwwii> I think it would look nice with a different colored bg
<titanix88_> suggestions:
<kwwii> the logo itself looks nice, although normally we do not use wallpapers with big prominent logos on them
<kwwii> something more reddish brown as background would be an improvement in any case
<titanix88_> it was done with blender.i have the .blend file.so no prblm.
<titanix88_> what's ur speciality?gimp/blender/inkscape
<titanix88_> sorry cause i disturbed u with private chat.let's take it to room.
<kwwii> I do a lot of inscape and gimp...for 3D stuff I usually use other tools
<kwwii> no worries, this is the place to discuss this stuff
<titanix88_> kwwii: other 3d? like k3d,wings3d?
<kwwii> no, like cinema4D
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> omg, non-free software
<kwwii> !
<kwwii> I earned a lot of money with that software and I find it worth it ;-)
<titanix88_> blender does not satisfy u????!!!!!!!!!!!i can't beleive it.
<titanix88_> anyway u seem to be a pro and i am just the one sumitting my first contrib. So don't count me.
<titanix88_> r u a pro artist?
<titanix88_> belive it or not i still don't know how to use uv textures in blender ;)
<titanix88_> lot of people = lot of silence
<kwwii> titanix88_: yes, I used to do a lot of work on tv commercials and music videos
<kwwii> but lately I have done more design work and photography than anything else
<kwwii> I think that c4d has the nicest modeller I can find
<kwwii> blender is certainly good but I have not time to learn the interface
<kwwii> and I would never try to make a music video with it
<kwwii> or any open source modeller unless I had the money to pay devs to work ont the effects I need
<kwwii> erm, renderer, I mean
<titanix88_> i am a mechanical ug with oss as hobby.
<titanix88_> kwii: have u seen the orange movie1?
<titanix88_> one thing is right. wired interface.
<titanix88_> have u ever used maya or 3dmax? i heared their the best.
<titanix88_> sorry, they are the best.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-31
<nothlit> http://freestyle.sourceforge.net/ <-- cool non-photorealistic renderer
<nothlit> troy_s: ^
<titanix88_> nothlit: hey
<titanix88_> hey i sumitted an wallpaper.the last one(wiredubuntu):https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas#preview
<titanix88_> some comment
<titanix88_> nothlit: i would not believe they were 3d if u haven't told me that!!!!!!!!!!
<nothlit> titanix88_: which of the wallpapers are yours?
<titanix88_> nothlit: the last one with 3d logo.
<titanix88_> called wiredubuntu.
<nothlit> its nice, but a little empty of a wallpaper imo, the eye is going to quickly get bored-- i don't mean make the image more busy, but break it up a bit
<titanix88_> thnx for the comment.any suggestions?
<nothlit> i'd move away from the wired look, see if you can come up with something more exciting
<nothlit> not the classic glass or blocks, challenge yourself :)
<titanix88_> by the way, my wallpaper is full of a huge logo made of thin copperlike wire(i really meant look at the last of the page)
<nothlit> oh, also think about colour/mood
<nothlit> that sort of spotlight in blackness might be good to create a focal point in the object, but does it relate to what you think of ubuntu?
<nothlit> titanix88_: lol, uv unwrapping is one of the parts of blender that is in the cutting edge btw :D
<titanix88_> nothlit: :D
<titanix88_> u 3d lover i guess?
<nothlit> nah, i just started to play with blender because it got sculpting
<nothlit> but the creation of 3d art is too mechanical for me to really get into it
<titanix88_> maybe it needs it to be sumitted for *e*dubuntu(considering their previous choices for wallpapers.) i really hate them
<titanix88_> nothlit: btw i am a mechanical engineering undergraduate. :D
<titanix88_> Seriously!
<nothlit> lol, then i guess you won't have my problem :D
<titanix88_> i think kubuntu is more liberal at wallpapers. Ubuntu is always dark brown(even i did that too).
<nothlit> nah ubuntu has gone brown, orange, a funny salmon pink
<titanix88_> nothlit: final question if it does not get any attention, what should be my point of interest of making it(u might understand two a day's hard labour for material setting.) :(....
<nothlit> well, you can use it, keep it for your portfolio, submit it on ubuntu's artwork site, gnome-look, and it may get included with the community stuff if it dosn't get picked as the main one
<nothlit> omgs run on sentence
<nothlit> besides the personal learning experience stuff, and a mat you have to reuse, etc
<titanix88_> they too are maybe. Anyway I understood the true spirit of community sharing. It's pretty much democratic. So i guess i will just keep making.thnx.
<nothlit> :)
<titanix88_> r u interested in any farther communication? i mean email.
<kwwii> night all
<kwwii> no more salmon pink for ubuntu, trust me
<titanix88_> kwwii: howdy
<kwwii> time for sleep here
<titanix88_> kwwii: where?
<nothlit> kwwii: cyas
<nothlit> titanix88_: have you joined the mailing list?
<titanix88_> nothlit: i joined launchpad.
<nothlit> titanix88_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<kwwii> night all
<nothlit> kwwii: cyas
<nothlit> blender has been use dto make music videos btw ;p, and i think elephant's dream and plumiferos proves its production readyness
<titanix88_> nothlit: i saw the elephants dream.it's great visually but dull story.
<kwwii> nothlit: yeah, but I earned tens of thousands euros on my stuff
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> really time for sleep now
<kwwii> and what I did was cheap in that world
<lapo> hi
<maxamillion> troy_s: ping
<kwwii> hey troy_s , around?
<kwwii> just read a magazine article from the UK in which you are listed as being the ubuntu art lead
<kwwii> better get to work! I want to make it blue, what do you think?
<lapo> kwwii: uhm... aren't you the chief?
<dilomo> hello
<dilomo> all
<lapo> hi
<maxamillion> troy_s: ping
<kwwii> hi lapo
<andreasn> kwwii: that ubuntu mobile thing device, is that out yet?
<andreasn> whups
<kwwii> andreasn: nope, we are still working on it
<kwwii> it is a long way from being finished
<kwwii> well, you can buy a device and you can install the software, but you don't really want to use it for anything other than developmet
<maxamillion> kwwii: you was hoping to talk to troy_s but it seems he hasn't been around all day and maybe you can answer my question .... i recently heard that the ubun2 project was looking for someone who could do some pypanel modification and i was wondering if the project was still in need of someone who could do this and what all was wanting to be done
<kwwii> maxamillion: not sure, I did not know that we were looking for anything like that
<kwwii> maxamillion: I am sure that someone has more info than I, but it is certainly not something being done by a canonical employee
<kwwii> my guess is that troy_s will be online sometime later
<maxamillion> kwwii: oh ... they might not be, there was just a dev who (i assume) heard it through the grape vine and knew i am a big pypanel fan so they brought it to my attention and if it were something i was knowledgable of i would be happy to help
<kwwii> maxamillion: well, I am just the art guy so maybe I have missed something somewhere but I know of no such work being done
<kwwii> maxamillion: have you asked around in ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-desktop
<kwwii> ?
<maxamillion> kwwii: no, i wasn't aware the two communities were mixed ... i thought ubun2 was a separate entity
<maxamillion> kwwii: i will pop in there and ask them
<kwwii> hrm, never heard of ubun2
<maxamillion> kwwii: you've never heard of ubun2?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> maybe I work too much
<maxamillion> kwwii: i thought this was the irc channel for it
<maxamillion> kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubun2design
<andreasn_> kwwii: you didn't miss anything really
<andreasn_> wasn't troy_s involved in that?
<kwwii> ahh, right I have seen that before
<kwwii> I think that he has done a lot on that, yeah
<kwwii> his name is all over that wiki page at least
<andreasn_> the gdm looks pretty nice
<maxamillion> i honestly don't really care much about gdm or gnome for that matter ... i run pypanel and openbox ... i just heard that they were looking for someone to do some pypanel mods and i got interested in helping because i would love to see more people use pypanel
<andreasn_> what's pypanel?
<maxamillion> http://pypanel.sourceforge.net
<maxamillion> andreasn_: ^^^^^^^^^^
<andreasn_> oh, maybe I've seen that before
<maxamillion> anyhoo ... i'm out of here ... thank for the info kwwii
<kwwii> no problem
<maxamillion> i might be back later to try and get ahold of troy_s and see if he has any knowledge of it
<maxamillion> thanks again :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-01
<lapo> troy_s: can you give me once again the link to that design trends page?
<Carroarmato0> hello people
<Carroarmato0> say.. all those wallpapers in on the wiki for Gutsy... will they all be included?
<Carroarmato0> say.. all those wallpapers in on the wiki for Gutsy... will they all be included in the release?
<Carroarmato0> you know... just a yes or no will get me out of here and not distrupt the channels silence :)
<nothlit> *cough* someone would have to package them
<nothlit> most likely with the automatic artwork builder kwii implemented, with instructions on ubuntu's wiki *double cough*
<nothlit> kwwii*
<kwwii> for everyone's information, we will be packaging all extra wallpapers in a "community wallpaper" package so nothing will go to waste
<coz_> afternoon all
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-02
<lassegul> hi troy_s, you here?
<lassegul> troy_s: I've made a sketchup for some magic lights on the wiki, called springer, what do you think. No more gloss :)
<troy_s> lassegul: Hello.
<troy_s> lassegul: Well that certainly is an improvement by an order of a magnitude wouldn't you say?
<troy_s> lassegul: Are you looking for feedback?
<lassegul> troy_s: yes very much. and thank you
<troy_s> lassegul: My guts tell me the followings:
<troy_s> 1) The gradient is still very mechanical.  It needs to be broken up into more subtle shaping rather than the simple oval.  Perhaps using a slightly varied shape with blur would help or layering different similar elements into different areas would break up the procedural gradient.
<lassegul> troy_s: i totally agree
<lassegul> troy_s: if you worry about the dark line right next to the ubuntu logo, I know its there, i just dont know why :)
<troy_s> 2) Strictly compositionally, it could use a slight tightening.  Try having your 'centres of gravity' falling on 'phi' lines.  Phi was largely flaunted during the Renaissance and has become the 'defacto' standard of 'classical' composition seen everywhere from Movie and Television photographic composition to layout and print composition.  Simply move centres of gravity and lines such that they fall generally on areas divided at 6
<troy_s> 1.8 %  Use a grid to help -- divide your final canvas into 'thirds' as a rough approximation, and land your gravity centres on the intersections.
<troy_s> lassegul: Is this inkscape from what I can see?
<lassegul> troy_s: yeah, but i was thinking ill get the shapes and positions right in inkscape then polish it in some bitmap editor.
<lassegul> troy_s: im having a hard time with gimp :(
<lassegul> troy_s: ill read up on phi
<troy_s> lassegul: That line is a blur problem.  Try 'resetting' the blur on the element in question or recompile inkscape as blurring is a LOT more mature now.
<troy_s> lassegul: As per the instructions on the wiki.
<troy_s> lassegul: Hold for a moment, I have another request coming in alternate window...
<lassegul> troy_s: i already did. its much better but its still fubar when it comes to big blurry layers
<troy_s> lassegul: Actually it is _very_ good, but the onscreen rendering will sometimes show residue.
<troy_s> lassegul: The actual png output should be fine.
<lassegul> troy_s: ok
<lassegul> troy_s: it still lags on my (strong) computer
<troy_s> lassegul: Well those gaussian blurs are a LOT of cpu cycles -- change the settings in the prefs.
<troy_s> lassegul: To a very low quality for on-screen work.
<troy_s> lassegul: There simply isn't a processor available to make blurs work realtime :)
<lassegul> ok
<troy_s> lassegul: I have adapted a workflow that allows for great complexity that I can share with you in a few moments.
<lassegul> thx man, i never get feedback on my work, thats probably why im not improving fast enough
<troy_s> lassegul: Well feedback is relative
<troy_s> lassegul: It ultimately depends on whether or not you think the person offering feedback is either 1) Knowledgeable or 2) In your target audience.
<troy_s> EVERYONE will have opinions.  That is part of the problem.  When you explicitly state your _Audience_ and _Goal_, however, it allows you to analyze the output a little more objectively (not that there is such thing as 'objective' in the grand scheme of things).
<lassegul> troy_s: relativist ey?
<lassegul> troy_s: but on nr 1). Have you made anything yet?
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> lassegul: I am still banging away at the solar flare idea I briefly posted.  It is evolving but still 'not quite there'.
<lassegul> troy_s: is it possible to see a work in progress?
<troy_s> let me see if i can find that thumbnail... holdon.
<troy_s> lassegul: Did you get that pm?
<lassegul> troy_s: sorry, wasnt paying attention. yeah thx
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> re
* kwwii spent half the day doing taxes :-(
<troy_s> greets kwwii
<troy_s> too bad to hear that my name popped up associated with ubuntu
<troy_s> give me an address or title and i will get a public apology lol.
<kwwii> hi troy_s
<kwwii> hehe, no worries, it was a linux magazine in the UK - people started to ask me whether you were onboard
<kwwii> kinda surprised me ;-)
<troy_s> sad.
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/BuildingaBetterUbuntu2-4.pdf
<kwwii> down on the bottom right side of page 4
<troy_s> 404
<kwwii> erm, make that http://sinecera.de/BuildingaBetterUbuntu2-4.pdf
<kwwii> ahhhh
<kwwii> no
<kwwii>  http://sinecera.de/BuildingaBetterUbuntu3-4.pdf
<troy_s> gah
<troy_s> jeebus
<troy_s> i don't want to be in there.
<troy_s> kwwii: That rather overdone swoop curve mix with the lionsmane is ... wow.
<troy_s> kwwii: Interesting starting point.  It would never fly with sab but ... just wow.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I thought it was a pretty nice idea as well
<kwwii> with a bit of work it could be perfect
<troy_s> its heading down a pretty incredible path really
<troy_s> you get that 'organic' from the natural flow of the fur / cracks in skin whatever
<troy_s> it also tends to trigger that 'wow' -- i suspect it is from the animal connection
<troy_s> (much used by burt in star wars in the sounds of the tie fighters versus milennium falcon as a totally cheap aside lol)
<troy_s> shit
<kwwii> those textures are really amazing, I wonder where he got them from
<troy_s> s/milennium/millennium
<lassegul> kwwii: he says he uses sand, and some photoshop effect.
<lassegul> kwwii: no its just closeups of lions done over and over each other in photoshop
<kwwii> hehe, I as wondering how he used sand to do that
<lassegul> kwwii: i still thinks he uses some sand. read for yourself, halfway down http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=527995
<lassegul> now, im back to inkscape with newly gained powers! Lasse away
<kwwii> lassegul: I saw that...looks like you are headed in the right direction
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: You are going to be doing _some_ filtering on that community wallpaper package I assume?
<kwwii> troy_s: yes, I would like to think that the whole community will do some filtering, not me or you-know-who
<troy_s> kwwii: Uh no agence.
<troy_s> feck
<troy_s> kwwii: No agency -- it can't happen.
<troy_s> kwwii: If you wish to see something happen, you must at least lay out ground work or a tool to accommodate something like that.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I thought about sending out an email to the list and then measuring the response
<kwwii> if nothing else, I will choose :p
<lassegul> How do you get on the artwork mailinglist?
<kwwii> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<lassegul> kwwii: thanks
<kwwii> np
<lassegul> well thats it for me. Im going to bed. See you guys tomorrow.
<kwwii> see you
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-25
<zerwas> hm, kwwi is not there ...
<zerwas> Cimi: ping
<Flannel> zerwas: Are you subscribed?
<zerwas> Flannel: it worked now.
<zerwas> I am, but i registered with an @gmail.com address. in the meantime, Google had to rename it in germany to googlemail.com, that was the problem
<Cimi> zerwas: pongÃ¹
<zerwas> Cimi: you just answered to my mail regarding the dust theme, thanks. so i am right that the same theme which hardy had will also get into intrepid?
<Cimi> similar themes
<zerwas> ah okay. thank you :-)
<pwnguin> I wonder if it's a bad thing that gmail marks a lot of ubuntu-artwork threads as spam =(
<thorwil> ah, welcome back kwwii!
<kwwii> hi thorwil
<kwwii> just reading up on something like 2000 emails
<thorwil> kwwii: i can imagine. i'm the cause of some of them ^^
<kwwii> hehe
 * thorwil waves to _MMA_ 
<_MMA_> Hello sir.
<kwwii> ok, so I finally read all the emails
<kwwii> erm, finished reading
<_MMA_> \o/
<thorwil> now comes answering them all? ^^
 * thorwil himself noticed a sharp rise in spam getting through the filters of his mail provider
<thorwil> hilton, spears and rolex. it sounds so easy to filter
<kwwii> I'll only answer a few...probably nothing specific on the art list
<psyke83> kwwii: I know you're busy, just FYI. I found a slight problem in all the themes (one line fix), I'll email the updated gtkrc files a little later
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, i saw your email with the other theme, I'll test that out later
<psyke83> kwwii: grand. I only attached a screenshot, I'll send the files along with the other updates so you can take a look
<kwwii> cool :-)
<thorwil> kwwii: regarding standard theme presentation, back when i worked on my experimental theme series, this was my base: http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/02.jpg
<thorwil> selected to show the stacking of windows and many widgets in there real context
<thorwil> i wonder if opening and placing specific apps and dialogs could be scripted
<kwwii> not sure about the scripting but providing a template is the least we could do
<kwwii> showing the widget factory is probably necessary in addition to what you have on that screenshot, I guess
<thorwil> sure. it's the widget factory that needs at least one less artificial shot in addition ;)
<thorwil> heck, a single resolution would be a win already
<kwwii> definitely
<kwwii> I guess making a couple of them at smaller resolutions is more realistic for more people
<kwwii> but changing resolution and getting a decent screenshot is something that won't work on every box
<thorwil> i have to admit that i just used my native resolution :)
<kwwii> yeah, pretty normal and I guess we can't change that easily
<kwwii> anyway...time to head out for dinner with the family
<kwwii> bbl
<thorwil> guten hunger!
<tlp> .
<tretle> hi, is the default theme for intrepid still undecided?
<_MMA_> I'm sure the idea is there as to what's going to be used.
<_MMA_> tretle: Whats up?
<tretle> was hoping that the wall-light gtk theme might make it
<_MMA_> Highly doubtful.
<tretle> the gdm theme is really good too
<tretle> I thought that intrepid would get the postponed theme change, from the looks of it community themes are being snubbed in favour of the old theme again
<Cimi> welcome back kenneth
<Cimi> did you spend great days with your sons?
<tretle> hey cimi?
<Cimi> tretle: are you kenneth?
<savvas> maybe there are two kens :)
<Cimi> :)
<tretle> nope, John here :D :P was just being polite :D
<_MMA_> Cimi: kwwii went out with his family to dinner. Should be back soon.
<tretle> Cimi - what do you think of Will-Light ?
<_MMA_> tretle: Its mostly a concept. Nobody's made it.
<tretle> they have
<tretle> its a bit buggy though
<_MMA_> And for me, it's too OSX.
<_MMA_> Along with not having the rights to the wallpaper.
<tretle> thats because awn is in the mockup
<tretle> ignore awn and concentrate on the gdm, gtk theme
<_MMA_> As well as AWN *needing* compotite to work. We can't guarantee that.
<_MMA_> There are nice ideas but in the end, it needs alot of work.
<_MMA_> Digg +1's don't really make things happen.
<tretle> well theres going to be some pissed off people when the theme change gets delayed again despite community demand
<thorwil> awww
<_MMA_> You can call it "ignoring the community" but the "community" is deeply unaware about what it takes to actually do something.
 * _MMA_ hands "the community" a tissue while ï»¿thorwil pats them on the back.
 * thorwil had some other act in mind, but they could use a tissue then, too
<_MMA_> :P
<thorwil> i'm actually more with troy then i used to be. let's do this, let's do that --- but what about the why?
<_MMA_> Hahahaha. Everyone ends up thinking like Troy. :)
<_MMA_> But...
<_MMA_> I do still like to do things "because it's cool". :)
<thorwil> _MMA_: that's quite compatible with what one could work out as master plan for ubuntu studio anyway ;)
<_MMA_> :P
<tretle> if there isn't going to be a theme change then don't announce it, that's all I am saying, it gives a bad impression of the art team and just stirs up bad press. Every distro release there are reviews, the common review of hardy included disappointment at the postponing of the new theme, continuously failing to reach deadlines will just give said reviewers ammunition to bash ubuntu.
<_MMA_> Oh well.
<thorwil> tretle: if some random guy stirs up shit with a mockup on digg, nobody here can do anything about it
<_MMA_> +1
<_MMA_> haha
<thorwil> the artwork "team" is not resposible for announcements, btw
 * _MMA_ "Dugg" ï»¿thorwil's comment.
<thorwil> finally, a bad impression is not necessarily wrong. and we all value honesty and truth, right? ^^
<_MMA_> No.
<thorwil> ok, _MMA_ is on the dark side, actually
 * _MMA_ wants sunshine constantly blown up his a$$. :P
<thorwil> ubuntu studio will subtly shift all music made with it to death metal
<_MMA_> \m/
<tretle> "we all value honesty and truth, right?" indeed thats why they will have a field day with the lack of theme change again
<_MMA_> *If* we even release anymore.
<_MMA_> tretle: Oh well. ;)
<thorwil> tretle: don't worry. digg, slashdot and co are not the world. also, you are still adressing the wrong people
<tretle> is there going to be any theme change at all
<_MMA_> Sure. kwwii will be best to say what it will be.
<_MMA_> psyke83 might know a bit as well.
<tretle> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/11805/
<_MMA_> So? :)
<_MMA_> Brainstorm in no way controls Ubuntu. I is only occasionally used as a metric.
<_MMA_> *It is...
<thorwil> _MMA_: no, actually i got worried now!!
<_MMA_> metric/gadge
<tretle> _MMA_ out of curiosity what is it you actually do?
<_MMA_> tretle: Im part of the "community".
<tretle> other than shun change :D :P lol
<_MMA_> I sit around making uninformed comments as if they were truth and do nothing to change things. :)
<tretle> _MMA_ why do you think you are better than the other 815 community members that voted?
<thorwil> tretle: out of curiosity, what is it that you do, other than complaining to the wrong people without offering actual help?
<_MMA_> tretle: You assume I am better. Not I. ;)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Well, as we both know, anyone can *offer* to help. It's the rare person who sticks around and actually *does* something. Where's Salene? :)
<thorwil> _MMA_: yes. should have said "without _even_ offering help". Salane got disillusioned and grumpy quickly.
<_MMA_> Yep.
<thorwil> the idea to take to the CC was interesting, though
<_MMA_> Yes. Though, it was for not.
<thorwil> good thing we are not disillusioned and grumpy
<_MMA_> :P
<tretle> the reason I didnt offer help was because you never told me who was the right people to discuss this with and the majority of responses were SO?, and digg bashing which was just irritating.
<_MMA_> ï»¿ï»¿tretle: I'll happily listen to anyone of those 815 people if that do more than talk and click a +1 button. ;)
<tretle> there have been gdm and gtk themes made already
<tretle> I said this earlier
<_MMA_> So. That's it. All done then. :) Go use 'em.
<thorwil> tretle: i think you were told that kwwii is the man (who hasn't returend yet, apparently). otherwise you would need to talk with sabdfl himself. good luck trying that
<tretle> right I give up, you win
<_MMA_> What you (ant *many* others) don't realize is the other work involved.
<_MMA_> *and
<thorwil> i refuse to win just for being told so!!
<_MMA_> You said yourself it's buggy as hell. Why should that be default in *any* distro?
<tretle> I was referring to _MMA_ but you can share the trophy
<thorwil> no way
 * _MMA_ wrastles it away from ï»¿thorwil.
 * thorwil hands _MMA_ an "e"
<tretle> Well, I was thinking that since the groundwork is done and it is a popular theme/concept that maybe people from the ubuntu art theme could concentrate on fixing it and maybe using it as default in ibex or ibex+1
<_MMA_> tretle: I'm sorry. We are having a *bit* of fun. Just realize that it's a *much* more complex issue than you, or any one of the hundred people I've seen come in here and ask about that theme.
<thorwil> tretle: maybe we are not exactly fair to you. but see, there were what felt like half a dozen times that that wall-light thing got brought up on our mailing list
<tretle> really
<_MMA_> Along with the fact that the mailing list has gone over this alot already. You wanna get the story, read the last 3 months on the ubuntu-artwork ML.
<tretle> understandable response to my entrance then
<thorwil> phew
<_MMA_> And in truth, I think the theme sux.
<_MMA_> There's nothing original about it. IMO
<_MMA_> It's all borrowed parts.
<thorwil> yeah, not enough honeycombs
<_MMA_> No sir.
<tretle> I like the yellow drop down menus
 * _MMA_ goes back to makin' beehives and unusable dark themes.
<rsc_> hi guys.
<zerwas> hi rsc_
<rsc_> is using Nabble a good way to participate in the list?
<rsc_> :b
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-26
<Keir> Hi
<thorwil> kwwii: do you actually use a firstname.lastname@canonical.com address?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-27
<thorwil> kwwii: i plan to do at least 2 other background after the ibex horns. i'd appreciate input about what you would be looking for
<kwwii> thorwil: cool, I really like the horns, btw
<kwwii> thorwil: I'll let you know once I have more information
<thorwil> ok, cool
<dilomo>   jsdh fjadhf
<dilomo> oops that was only a test
<psyke83> kwwii, hey. I sent an updated (and packaged) version of the theme to your mail if you're interested ;)
<tretle> Hi, when will dust and new wave make it into intrepid and what will be used as the default wallpaper?
<tretle> the wallpaper here looks quite good : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/DustTheme?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ibexconcept.jpg
<kwwii> tretle: we have to make packages for the themes which are to be included so it will take a while
<kwwii> I was still waiting for someone from the Dust team to contact me answering my email
<kwwii> and that wallpaper does look nice
<tretle> cool
<tretle> will the new wallpapers for gnome also be included in intrepid or will it just be the hardy and intrepid wallpaper?
<kwwii> I'd like to include some new wallpapers but in the end that depends on the cd size
<tretle> hmmmmm..... when will we migrate to dvds :)
<tretle> how about extra wallpapers on the dvd version
<kwwii> that would require extra packaging stuff
<kwwii> but doable probably
<_MMA_> It would require seed changes.
<DanaG> heh, reminds me of some sort of crime scene, for some reason.
<DanaG> :(
 * DanaG ponders: how about a softened photomosaic background?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-28
 * kwwii wanders off to bed
<_MMA_> DanaG: Please fix your connection.
<DanaG> My connection is fine....
<DanaG> but my gnome-session.... is royally ****ed up.
<_MMA_> Then disconnect so you don't flood the channel 'till it's fixed.
<DanaG> Shall do.
<DanaG> Oh, it finally finished loading... after sitting there for like 5 minutes.
<Ziroday> kwwii: you awake?
<kwwii> Ziroday: yeah, and my internet connection just starting working again
<Ziroday> kwwii: wonderful
<Ziroday> kwwii: I emailed you about the deviantart thing
<kwwii> Ziroday: I just responded
<Ziroday> thought it would be easier to talk on irc
<kwwii> sure
<kwwii> my guess is that he could not find anyone in deviantArt who was interested in taking up the project
<Ziroday> hmm alright, I will email them now and see what they say
<Ziroday> but if not can't we do this project seperate from them
<Ziroday> like the errr
<Ziroday> Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase
<Ziroday> is being done?
<kwwii> my guess is that without the artists on their side it will make it really hard to have a contest
<Ziroday> alright, but I am sure if we stick it on digg etc then some of them would still make some stuff, if not from deviantart from other places
<Ziroday> as there was a really big response on the brainstorm idea etc
<kwwii> the only important part to remember is that canonical is not promising anyone anything
<Ziroday> kwwii: definitly
<kwwii> that would need to be made clear at the very beginning (very loudly)
<Ziroday> got it
<kwwii> people seem to like to mistake things like that
<Ziroday> yeah I know :)
<Ziroday> well anyway I will get hold of the deviantart people and see what the story is with them
<Ziroday> and if not we will see how we can progress from there?
<kwwii> sounds good to me
<Ziroday> kwwii: great, talk to you soon
<Ziroday> and have an awesome day :)
<kwwii> hehe, thanks! you too
<psyke83> hey
<kwwii> hi psyke83
<kwwii> psyke83: the newest gtkrc'S will be going in tomorrow
<conn_> cool
<psyke83^> I got disconnected, gotta wait for my alternate personality to feck off :P
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> my internet connection went down last night after a major server broke down
<kwwii> I was offline until this afternoon
<psyke83^> I see... I think in my case the problem is on my end, not the ISP's... I noticed that Intrepid's 2.6.27-1-generic kernel is terrible for multitasking/interactivity. While I'm building something, my system slows to a crawl
<thorwil> wow. http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/logot.png
<_MMA_> "wow" can mean so many things. :)
<_MMA_> ï»¿Current shots of Studio GDM and wallpaper concepts: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/studio_gdm_hex_concept.png http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/studio_wall_hex_concept.png http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/studio_wall_hex_concept_alt.png ï»¿I'm leaning toward the unbranded "alt" wallpaper for final.
<thorwil> it's quite a jump from the gdm to the wallpapers
<_MMA_> How so?
<_MMA_> Same motif. Just light/dark bg.
<thorwil> gdm looks so bright and happy, where the honey-comb background looks technical and rather cold
<thorwil> gdm makes me think of kylie minogue videos
<_MMA_> thorwil: I see that. I see it another way also.
<_MMA_> It's meant to have a funky feel.
<_MMA_> A little fun. And contrast is intentional.
<thorwil> the contrast bites. both between gdm and wallpapers and in the wallpapers themselves. ok if you want that
<_MMA_> :P
<thorwil> _MMA_: line width for the small coloured honey-combs _appears_ to be thicker. maybe you can counteract by actually making it thinner than elsewhere?
<_MMA_> On a smaller pic like that, I think that effect is more prominent. They are all set to 5px. And since Im OCD I can't change it. They all gotta match. :P
<_MMA_> thorwil: And just a note, the gradient on the background is set in Nautilus. A user can change to to whatever.
<DanaG> Perspective on the hex thingy is odd on the text.
<DanaG> Odd: http://www.linuxmint-art.org/content/show.php/Circuit+Mint?content=81985
<DanaG> http://www.linuxmint-art.org/content/show.php/Graffiti+Mint?content=81979
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-29
<nand> thorwil: hey! you around?
<thorwil> nand: kinda
<nand> thorwil: ok, it's not urgent :) I was wondering under which licence you wanted to ... licence your artwork.
<thorwil> nand: pick one that is practical for the project
<nand> thorwil: okay :)
<dLightning> Hello all!
<BoogyWoe> hello ubuntu artwork team
<__mikem> quick question, what does the new theme look like now?
<DanaG> There
<DanaG> There is not yet a "THE" new theme.
<__mikem> oh man, but I have been in suspense all summer :(
<Cimi> no new cool theme before 9.10
<Cimi> so october 2009
<Cimi> no one have patched GTK+ to support RGBA colormaps, and then nothing new and cool can be added
<__mikem> Cimi, I was promiced a new theme next in 8.04 then they pushed it back to 8.10, now you are telling me I have to wait yet ANOTHER year?
<Cimi> I haven't promiced anything
<Cimi> if ubuntu/canonical did... that's not my fault
<__mikem> Cimi, I know, I am not mad at you
<BoogyWoe> is the theme of ubuntu changing or are more fundamental things changing... like using avant-window-navigator by default?
 * DanaG hugs his rounded scrollbars...
<DanaG> It just 'feels' nice, somehow.
<__mikem> anyway, are there atleast some resent screenshots I can look at?
<kwwii> there might be more change than one expects in the end
<Cimi> __mikem: for cool things you have to read my blog
<kwwii> or there might be less
<Cimi> at least my tests
<__mikem> Cimi, link?
<Cimi> kwwii: everything depends on the patches for the GtkStatusIcon that may start another process
<Cimi> __mikem: http://www.cimitan.com/blog/category/murrine/
<Cimi> read this category
<Cimi> aka transparent themes that will let the themers to play with roudness and things like this
<Cimi> for example this theme is functional, it is not a mockup http://www.cimitan.com/blog/wp-content/rgba-murrine-170208.png
<__mikem> I don't want to "play with" the theme, I want a good looking theme out of the box
<__mikem> the human theme is a good looking theme, but its grown old
<Cimi> yeah, there you can look at it
<Cimi> kwwii: you should really ask mark to involve another dev
<Cimi> at least for this project
<kwwii> Cimi: trust me, I have
<Cimi> ok
<Boogy`> can I ask if the next version of ubuntu will look more like gOS?
<Cimi> even if you don't want to play with transparency: rounded menus for example and things like these
<Boogy`> like.. the style is more mac like
<kwwii> Boogy`: no, not necessarily
<Cimi> gOS is damn ugly IMHO
<Boogy`> well look
<Boogy`> gOS only exsits to make ubuntu look good for "regular" people
<Boogy`> albeit on small net-tops
<kwwii> simply copying anything is a bad idea, long term
<__mikem> I heard that Mark Shuttleworth called on the ubuntu devs to create a bran new desktop environment to replace gnome and kde that would be more like the mac
<kwwii> some things can do that but ubuntu can't
<kwwii> it simply makes no sense
<Boogy`> why redo the whole inviroment
<kwwii> we should learn and move ahead
<Boogy`> you already can make you ubunu look like a mac
<kwwii> but then again, to do that we need more desktop devs anyway
<__mikem> Boogy`, gnome is good but its a bit dated
<kwwii> Boogy`: I don't want to make a mac clone
<kwwii> I agree that that would be easy
<Boogy`> ok.. not "clone"
<kwwii> minus the apps
<Boogy`> but someone like it
<Boogy`> somewhat*
<__mikem> kwwii, you don't need a mac clone, you just need something that is pretty and polished like the mac
<Cimi> then they can buy a mac :)
<Boogy`> yes... what mikem said
<Cimi> you cant
<Cimi> because mac is actually having ONE theme
<Cimi> and they have a custom design for every application
<kwwii> __mikem: yes, I agree that it should be as amazing, beautiful, etc
<kwwii> but we simply do not have the resources to work like that
<Cimi> in fact when you approach a mac skin you have to make a thousand pixmaps for every application
<Cimi> linux apps are difefrent
<Cimi> they have a similar look because they use the same widget without a custom look (except banshee 1.x)
<__mikem> Cimi, I said this before. Linux used to be able to stand out simply because it was more stable and more secure, but with OSX Leopard in the picture, linux is no longer unique in that regard. Not only that but OSX has the stability and security of linux and a pretty face to boot. Linux is not behind. Linux can no longer compete simply on the basis of its superior archetecture, we need a new GUI for ubuntu.
<__mikem> I have to restart, brb
<Boogy`> can I ask... if I would like to contribute to the GUI-feel of ubuntu.. how would I go about doing that?
<Cimi> I don't need a new look to be happy with ubuntu :)
<Cimi> Boogy` as I said, without that gtk+ patch we can't much
<kwwii> actually he has a very good point....mac has the advantage of knowing all the hardware details so everything just works but we could be just as beautifull if someone wanted it to be
<kwwii> someone meaning someone with a lot of money
 * Cimi totally agrees
<kwwii> it would be very expensive
<Boogy`> oh come on guys... I like.. "want" to help furthur ubuntu's world domination
<Cimi> Boogy` so go and learn C and Gtk+
<Boogy`> so how would I be able to do that with my limited skills at simply pointing out what doesnt look good
<kwwii> give me and 3 other artists 10 developers to work with and things would change quickly
<__mikem> okay back
<kwwii> Boogy`: that is the easy part, lots of people know what they do not like
<kwwii> Boogy`: the point is to make things better by actively changing things
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-30
<Boogy`> I see
<Boogy`> and to do that, I need to learn C or the gtk+?
<kwwii> "If If's and But's were candy and nuts, oh what a party we'd have!"
<Cimi> if you want to contribute in a useful way.. yes :)
<kwwii> I love that saying
<kwwii> Boogy`: you can learn whatever you want, it depends on what you can/want to do
<Boogy`> how about I use my photshoping abilities instead and just pass the suggestion to you guys?
<Boogy`> is that close enough?
<kwwii> Boogy`: more than half of making a theme is knowing what is possible
<__mikem> kwwii, even if you think desktops that are lifeless, have boxy edges and are completely static are the best thing since OS/2, you have tothink about whats good for linux as a platform, and that is selling it to a bunch of people who like rounded edges, semitransparent window decorations, and lots of eye candy.
<kwwii> if you are just working on a wallpaper then photoshop skills would be enough, mainly
<Boogy`> well gee guys... and here I was all excited to help out...
<kwwii> __mikem: actually, I agree with you more than you think but I also see the technical issues invovled and without somehow getting around them there is little that pretty pictures will do
<kwwii> they can inspire developers though
<__mikem> kwwii, I really like linux an I want it to succeed, and it is frustrating to no end when people who run these projects fail to realize that ubuntu and all other distributions are in desparate need ofafacelift, even if you understand this, too many others don't.
<__mikem> apparently I am in desparate need of a new space bar
<kwwii> __mikem: what I really understand well is that the infrastructure needs to change in order to keep pace with others technologies
<Cimi> kwwii: I have updated scrollbars in murrine
<kwwii> and the only way to do that is to hire more devs
<Cimi> oops
<Cimi> noetbooks
<Cimi> *tabs
<__mikem> kwwii, the problem is, in on the software development side, nobody wants to change the infrastructure. They think that you guys can do the job with what you got.
<kwwii> a small team of artists with a larger team of devs could radically change things although some stuff is simply trickery by Microsoft and Apple because they control/own hardware
<__mikem> I don't know who is right but the level of coporation between the artists and the programmers in this project is impeeding progress
<__mikem> s/level of cooporation/lack of cooporation
<Cimi> http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3189/schermataqt8.png
<Cimi> kwwii: new tabs
<__mikem> Cimi, THATS the kind of look that we need
<Cimi> as said, we need 1 dev to patch Gtk+ :)
<kwwii> Cimi: nice :-) although I never was a fan of the hard glow
<Cimi> kwwii: can be customized
<Cimi> gradients...
<kwwii> right :-)
<zniavre> rounded menu ...  :o)
<Cimi> zniavre: it works with murrine
<zniavre> yes i know
<kwwii> Cimi: do you think I should update the svn snapshot of the murrine engine for intrepid?
<Cimi> if you like new tabs
<kwwii> I will include a snapshot, I see no reason not to as it works very well
<__mikem> Cimi, well someone is going to need to talk to the devs because they refuse to believe that the current GTK+ is anything short of perfect
<kwwii> Cimi: cool, I'll bug people and have a good reason to do so
<Cimi> gtk+ is ok
<Cimi> what's wrong with it?
<__mikem> Cimi, you just said it needs patching
<Cimi> because of freedesktop
<Cimi> gtk+ is following freedesktop specifications
<Cimi> and the current freedesktop specification have a mistake: you cant use transparency with the system tray icons, otherwise it will crash
<__mikem> what is the "free desktop specifications"?
<kwwii> gtk+ still needs lots of work
<kwwii> trust me, I came from a purely Qt world and had to relearn all the limitations
<Cimi> freedesktop.org is an organization that writes the standards between the difefrent applications and window managers
<__mikem> kwwii, I use wxWidgets
<Cimi> for example
<Cimi> for every thing you see there's a specification behind
<Cimi> when you move your files to the Trash
<Cimi> those are moevd into /home/your-user/.local/Trash
<Cimi> there's a specification that explains that and make it standard
<Cimi> so every file manager will implement it and dolphin in kde4 will see the same trash of nautilus in gnome
<__mikem> Thats good
<Cimi> actually, freedesktop specifications have a mistake for the system trays
<Cimi> because when they were written transparency didn't existed
<Cimi> *st
<kwwii> Cimi: right, which means it needs to be changed
<Cimi> and they haven't planned this kind of future
<kwwii> I stopped posting on the xdg list after the whole tango by default issue :p
<__mikem> all I know is, linux is behind in GUI design, and needs to catch up
<Cimi> kwwii: of course, otherwise we will have opaque windows for the next 10 years
<Cimi> __mikem: it is not a problem for me, I like it the whay it is :)
<Cimi> my desktop doesn't look to baad :)
<__mikem> Cimi, it doesn't matter what you like, it matters how millions of perspective users out there like it. Thats the thing that people here don't seem to get and its frustrating
<Cimi> fuck off the people
<Cimi> they are not paying for linux/ubuntu
<Cimi> and they should not have any warranties
<Cimi> want more? pay for it!
<kwwii> a lot of people are willing to pay for it, and even pay us if possible...there is a way to change the status quo
<kwwii> but it is not easy and most people don't want to even get into it as it means more work on their part
<_MMA_> Cimi: That attitude will continue to hinder progress. Coders are very often *not* designers. We all have to work together to move forward.
<_MMA_> So the code it or pay for it attitude is not really helpful.
<kwwii> it seems that designers and developers do not work well together in the real world without being paid to do so :p
<Cimi> I can do both of things :P
<_MMA_> kwwii: Don't gimmie that "real world" crap. That only furthers separation.
<_MMA_> People that say I will *only* do something if I get paid shouldn't work on free-software. IMO
<kwwii> _MMA_: sorry but my experience has shown that it is really hard to work together
<_MMA_> kwwii: That's ego.
<_MMA_> Nothing more.
<__mikem> kwwii, and yet the people at yApple do it every da
<kwwii> people who can do bleeding edge coding on graphics related stuff have their own ideas, it is only natural
<kwwii> they are good at what they do for a reason
<_MMA_> "I won't listen to you because I'm not paid to." Bullshit.
<kwwii> oh, they will listen to you but the results may not be what you expect
<__mikem> The problem is, linux would be so much better off if these people would put asside their differences and build a more modern UI experience, and they refuse to do it.
<_MMA_> And there's a difference there. Being paid for something specific is on thing.
<kwwii> it is just really hard to work on something unless you both have the same vision
<_MMA_> Most often what we see is "I have my own idea and I don't care what you think". *Even* when it comes from someone credible.
<_MMA_> __mikem: And don't say "linux" that's too general.
<kwwii> and in that case there are very few credible artists :-)
<kwwii> as many people expect and artist to create something by chanting the famous words "I have a program and now I need some icons"
<kwwii>  :p
<_MMA_> kwwii: Well credibility comes from experience. I have a hard time believing that Cimi would listen to someone from Apple.
<kwwii> I always wanted to come up to a dev and say "I have some icons and now I need an app"
<Cimi> _MMA_: WHY ME TO APPLE???
<_MMA_> ï»¿Cimi: I don't understand what you said.
<Cimi> me too :)
<Cimi> I didn't understand why my name was near apple
<_MMA_> Cimi: If someone from Apple, a great UI designer, came to you and said "You should change this in Murrine" would you listen?
<Cimi> oh no. apple designers sucks compared to me and my ego :P
<kwwii> what if they said that they were going to use it by default in OSX?
<Cimi> murrine?
<_MMA_> Point made.
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> lol
<Cimi> I can close the source ;)
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> Cimi: for a lot of money?
<Cimi> and became billionar
<kwwii> and I mean a lot
<kwwii> exactly
<Cimi> then give kenneth 10 new devs
<kwwii> then you could do what you wanted
<Cimi> and do a murrine++
<Cimi> :))
<Cimi> 1 more lasftm song then bed!
<kwwii> good idea...time for sleep
<Cimi> kwwii: I haven't received a reply from mark, so maybe he changed his idea
<kwwii> Cimi: I have no idea what he is thinking anymore so I am no longer responsible
<Cimi> what do you mean?
<kwwii> well, naturally I am still responsible
<kwwii> but I have given up on thinking that I know what he thinks
<Cimi> ooh ok ;)
<kwwii> I realize that we are two totally different people with different understandings of things and I hope that I can make him happy somehow
<Cimi> from my point of view mark has 0 (i mean zero) experience with the design
<Cimi> not only experience, taste too...
<kwwii> on wednesday he asked me if I am invovled with the community efforts at all at which point I realized that he has no idea of what I am doing
<Cimi> ahahahaha
<kwwii> anyway, too late for me here...shouldn't be talking like this
<Cimi> oh don't worry, i will keep this conversation secret
<kwwii> lol, me too
<Cimi> (also because of my " from my point of view mark has 0 (i mean zero) experience with the design")
<_MMA_> hahhaha. Channel is logged and public. :)
<Cimi> damn!!! :D
<Cimi> someone to delete the log please
<kwwii> oh well, such is life
<psyke83> someone needs to hack into the irclogs.ubuntu.com server :P
<kwwii> time for sleep now
<kwwii> see you all soon
<_MMA_> night
<psyke83> nite
<Cimi> kwwii: you will be fired!
<Cimi> strike!
<kwwii> hehe, if anyone has any idea about creating a FF skin let me know
<Cimi> kwwii: creating skins is damn not perfect
<Cimi> anyway I know 2 guys maybe
<_MMA_> I have some links.
<kwwii> Cimi: well, we only want to change a few smaller points
<psyke83> it would be better for Cimi to improve Murrine's tabs instead ;)
<kwwii> I have some online info as well, but I really just want to change two things in the normal setup
<Cimi> psyke83: i love the new ones
<psyke83> Cimi: I didn't check yet, I'll have to take a look
<Cimi> http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3189/schermataqt8.png
<Cimi> shot
<_MMA_> kwwii: As long as it doesnt go *in* the Firefox package and things areen't set by default that F' Xubuntu and I.
<_MMA_> bbl
<kwwii> _MMA_: nope, it is an extra theme package which one would have to install
<psyke83> Cimi, better, but still not great. The only difference I see is that there's a gradient on the "selected" tab
<Cimi> psyke83: I would really like to see your ideas
<kwwii> basically I am thinking about putting all the metacity and gtk stuff from all the community themes in one package and then make one package per theme with the extra stuff which one can install to complete the feel
<Cimi> actually the best tabs I've seen are for Clearlooks
<Cimi> (yeah I did them :) )
<_MMA_> hahahah. "Great" We're so opinionated. :P Ubuntu Studio Hardy will have the best look anyway. Ubuntu should just give up.
<zerwas> _MMA_: don't give up the hope.
<psyke83> Cimi, funnily enough since we're talking about Firefox, I think the tabs in the Windows version looked OK. The main difference is a slight separation between tabs, though I don't know if GTK would allow it?
<Cimi> psyke83: yeah
<psyke83> http://cavemonkey50.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/ff2_win_final_large.jpg
<psyke83> like those
<_MMA_> Ok. Really, bbl. (off to the library)
<Cimi> GtkNotebook::tab-overlap
<Cimi> psyke83: for example these tabs: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8282/kithtabsks2.png
<psyke83> Cimi, does that require the very latest SVN code? I set it to 4 and see no difference with the intrepid snapshot
<Cimi> psyke83: the tabs of the last screenshot are a local test
<Cimi> the tabs of the previous are from the svn
<Cimi> if you want to separate them, for EVERY theme
<Cimi> just place GtkNotebook::tab-overlap = -2
<Cimi> (this works for clearlooks too...)
<psyke83> ah, I see
<psyke83> I quite like it at -1 :)
<psyke83> if the tabs curved at the bottom edges it would be nicer
<Cimi> no
<Cimi> it requires things that will break usability
<zerwas> did you guys thought about to call out a bounty for rgba colormaps support? ...
<zerwas> ... if there is no developer willing to do this.
<psyke83> it seems firefox doesn't honour GtkNotebook::tab-overlap :(
<zerwas> at least epiphany/midori does ...
<Cimi> psyke83: in fact as I said
<Cimi> overlap will reduce usability
<Cimi> because you're losing a lot of space
<Cimi> same thing for the curved tab
<Cimi> (it will require tab-overlap)
<psyke83> sure, but if you look at GTK compared to most other interfaces, there is a LOT of whitespace that's really a waste. It's partially to do with freetype font rendering and distributions using 10pt fonts, but a lot of the blame is on GTK+ too. You can't simply set x/ythickness=0 without widgets looking very strange
<psyke83> a little space wasted on tabs is a small sacrifice compared to the other spacing problems (though I agree there's no need to make it worse :P)
<psyke83> I suppose it's less of a problem now that 1024x768 is considered "low resolution"
<bender1337> hi, i am working on a cartoon theme in ubuntu i have gartoon icons and a cartoon back ground does anyone know what else i could get to improve my theme
<bender1337> is there a cartoony gtk theme
<Cimi> kwwii: ping
<Cimi> kwwii: if you have mockups, please read this http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2008/08/23/mockups-for-murrine/
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners
<andreasn> thorwil: ooh, I like the one with the dots, would it count down on the circles?
<thorwil> andreasn: ty, yes
<andreasn> cool
<thorwil> inner dot is zero. rest are 15. if that isn't enough, space gets tight ...
<savvas> hm.. countdown with sign language
<savvas> that could be unique
<thorwil> heh, this kinda mirrors the reaction in #ubuntu-artwork.
<thorwil> one for the dots, one for the hands
<thorwil> good night! :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-31
<_MMA_> http://psdtuts.com/articles/7-principles-of-effective-icon-design
<thorwil> bonjour nand
<nand> guten tag thorwil!
<zerwas> Hallo thorwil
<nand> any news from the job?
<thorwil> hi zerwas
<thorwil> nand: nope
<nand> :(
 * thorwil might end up in a call center or something
<thorwil> nand: you're about to pick up your job now?
<nand> yep, tuesday
<thorwil> cool
<decko> Guys, is someone working on NewHuman theme?
<decko> Sorry for asking this here, but I don't see any package update since 1 month ago...
<_MMA_> decko: And what does the lack on an update mean?
<_MMA_> *of an...
<decko> I don't know. Maybe less contribution
<decko> A change of ideas
<decko> The last meeting on Wiki is from march
<_MMA_> SO what is it you really want?
<_MMA_> A meeting? To work on the theme? Just a newer package?
<thorwil> what most of us really want is to be loved. take it easy, _MMA_ ;)
<_MMA_> thorwil: You asking me to "ï»¿take it easy" leads me you believe you think I'm being harsh. I'm simply being direct. I could have gone about my Sunday having never said anything. :) I'm asking direct questions so I can give better direct answers.
<decko> I just want to know how the work with NewHuman is going
<decko> Just that
<_MMA_> I *believe* it's slowly being worked on. It's main contributor was on holiday. SO not much was done lately.
<mrdoob> o/
<mrdoob> I wonder, isn't it supposed to be the highest days of the ubuntu-artwork on the schedule now?
<mrdoob> where highest = important
<thorwil> sure, we're all totally high
 * _MMA_ passes one to thorwil.
<mrdoob> thorwil: woah man, how funny that was, made me laugh for hours, thanks
<thorwil> i'm still laughing, too!1
<mrdoob> one
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-24
<lucazade> hi all!
<lucazade> hiw to attach images or files to the ubuntu wiki?
<mac_v> lucazade: which wiki page?
<lucazade> karmic artwork
<lucazade> i've made a gtk theme
<mac_v> its a huge section  , if you give the link i could help you out
<mac_v> or are you starting a new page?
<lucazade> starting a new page
<mac_v> just a sec
<lucazade> ok
<mac_v> when you are editing the page add this >   {{attachment:yourFileName.jpg}}
<mac_v> then when you preview the page  , you will notice that the image is missing
<mac_v> now , right-click the image missing symbol and then open the link in a new tab , this will ask you to upload the file
<lucazade> oh perfect
<lucazade> same for the tar.gz?
<mac_v>  {{attachment:yourFileName.tar.gz|NameYouWantDisplayed}}
<lucazade> thanks, trying it out!
<mac_v> np
<lucazade> mac_v https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Turrican
<mac_v> lucazade: i like the pixmaps you have used :)
<lucazade> thanks.. i'm not sure about the orange, i'll try something less saturated
<mrdoob> Is the breathe icon set going to be default on karmic?
<mrdoob> http://www.osnews.com/story/22047/Linux_User-Friendliness/
<mrdoob> ah, it's a shame, no mention of Ubuntu at all
<mrdoob> But I kind of agree with this...
<mrdoob> "I think the best hope for a sea-change in Linux usability would have to be an initiative like Google OS, where Linux is chosen to be the underpinning of a new, user-friendly OS by a large company that will unilaterally undertake to create an elegant user interface on top of Linux, much as Apple did from BSD."
<thorwil> osnews has some really dumb articles
<thorwil> there's a lot that could be improved regarding so-called user-friendliness, but an honest comparison to windows or mac osx can't be a simple black or white thing and isn't required at all
<thorwil> all you need to see is that things could be better
<mrdoob> all I need to see is that things could be better?
<mrdoob> in all OS?
<thorwil> only in those you care about
<mrdoob> ok
<dashua> mac_v, Pull hanso when you get a change, metacity refinements.  Let me know what you think?
<dashua> chance*
<dashua> If everything looks good to you, I'll make a release today. :)
<mac_v> dashua: pulling , will check it out in a min :)
<dashua> Thx
<mac_v> dashua: why the disabled menu items are green in OOo ?
<mac_v> didnt have any luck with the nautilus disabled items either?
<dashua> Not sure.  It blended the text and bg_normal
<dashua> I tried on the disabled, couldn't find a solution of the dark pixmap
<mac_v> this is a major problem :( main reason why i gave up on a full dark version of Dust
<dashua> I don't know if it can be done
<mac_v> dashua: yeah ... atleast try correcting the OOo green. thats a bit confusing
<dashua> Ok thx
<mac_v> np :)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<ckontros> dashua: I think the bottom line on Hanzo shoulda stayed. To me, it indicated there was still something to grab to. Considering how thin the border is on the sides. Also, it looked better when the window was shaded/rolled-up.
<ckontros> dashua: (w/Compiz on that is) Looks like there's still that odd bug.
<mrmcq2u> kwii - u there?
<mrmcq2u> kwii - kwwii
<ckontros> mrmcq2u: He's on holiday/vacation.
<dashua> ckontros, Ok, you think change it back?  I prefer the border myself, but a few members liked the uniform color.
<dashua> Breathe is back :)
<ckontros> dashua: Go w/your gut. ;) And I wouldn't make your theme depend on and icon set other than maybe GNOME.
<dashua> Breathe looks pretty damn good with it.
<dashua> Ok :)
<ckontros> Looks great sure, but users trying the theme w/o Breathe will be broken.
<dashua> Alright, np.
<dashua> I need to rewire my basement for a home inspection on Wed.  Wish me luck ;)
<ckontros> dashua: Good luck. Side note: There's a slight issue w/menus on Skypes tray applet. I forget how to fix. Maybe look at the Studio theme.
<dashua> Ok.  I'll take a look.  Thx.
<ckontros> Dark text on dark menu.
<dashua> Ah, yeah I think there is a workaround for that.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-25
<mac_v> dashua: hi... is it possible to use 2 engines for 1 widget?
<mac_v> like for instance i dont like how murrine focusses the buttons , can i use clearlooks only for button focus? while the rest use murrine?
<kwwii> mac_v: for each entry in the gtkrc you can use a different engine
<mac_v> kwwii: \o/ hi... back?
<mac_v> kwwii: hmm... i'm messing up something then! i'm trying to use a pix map for the Focus , but either it uses pixmap engine or the murrine! i'll try to check where it is wrong
<kwwii> mac_v: nope, still on vacation, you just got lucky ;)
<kwwii> hrm, it might be the case that within one widget it cannot use more than one engine
<kwwii> I am working on my mac atm so I can't check
<mac_v> lol ;)
<mac_v> yeah thougth so too... but i'll double check
<dashua> mac_v, Yes, change notebook engine "clearlooks" {}
<dashua> Ah wait you want focus on the outside of the button
<mac_v> dashua: actually what i want is to use a pixmap for the focus alone , > http://paste.ubuntu.com/259252/ , but which ever is the second engine becomes the one used for everything :(
<mac_v> dashua: where can i find documentation for murrine engine?
<dashua> I don't think you can combine two engines like that within a class.
<mac_v> yeah :(
<dashua> So you want to use the murrine button with a pixmap focus entry
<mac_v> yup
<dashua> http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/
<dashua> Somewhere on his site, I think it's limited
<mac_v> i went through that but >  http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/options was all i found :(
<mac_v> dashua: let me know if you get any ideas for assigning a pix map for focus alone :)
<dashua> Ok np.
<dashua> mac_v, Can you send me tarball of your theme?  I have an idea.
<mac_v> sure , just a sec
<mac_v> dashua: i'm having some problem with archive manager! it keeps crashing , do you want just the gtkrc?
<mac_v> or the i think you already have my theme ,
<dashua> I wanted the whole theme, pixmap for the focus and all.
<mac_v> yeah, someting is messing up my archive manager , i'll try somehow to get it to wirk :)
<dashua> Ha alright np.
<dashua> You want clearlooks focus on the outside of the button right?
<mac_v> dashua: i meant to get the archive manager to work , i have no new ideas for the theme ;p
<dashua> I can't find the theme.
<mac_v> dashua: i'll get back in a sec... i'll boot int jaunty :)
<mac_v> into*
<dashua> Ok
<lucazade> on karmic  the archive manager is broken, just use "tar czf theme.tar.gz themefolder"
<mac_v> lucazade: hm... i'll try that first! too many apps to close ;)
<lucazade> :D
<dashua> Working ok here.  Maybe 64 bit is good.
<mac_v> dashua: its a big mess right now , > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/DSand.tar.gz < needs a lot of cleanup
<dashua> Ok
<mac_v> dashua: does the archive exist properly? i mean any problems extracting?
<mac_v> lucazade: that didnt work for me either :( , but i fooled archive manager by adding files to an already existing archive and removing the existing files ;)
<dashua> Nope.  All good.
<mac_v> phew , that saved me from closing ~20 windows :D
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22874/screenshot_001_9wM2hk.png
<dashua> Something like that?
<mac_v> dashua: yes but you changed the engine to clearlooks for the regular buttons too
<dashua> I think it's packaged deal, unless you hack the engine.
<dashua> a*
<mac_v> dashua: ah... then i think i'll have to use pix maps for all , hmm... so i'll have to create a button which looks identical to the murrine one o.0
<dashua> Yep
<mac_v> why cant life be easy :(
<dashua> Hehe
<dashua> Check out NewWave for pixmap help.  That theme has it all.
<mac_v> yeah, everything is a pixmap in new wave , he really did a lot of work
<dashua> Sure did.
<mac_v> dashua: the xchat users list... it is what type of widget?
<dashua> Hrm, not sure.
<lucazade> mac_v should be GtkTreeView widget, i suppose
<mac_v> lucazade: do you use xchat?
<lucazade> yes
<mac_v> lucazade: ok , just test this out , any theme with clearlooks will have the user list just display names , but a theme with murrine engine displays dots in front of the names! is that correct or is it a bug in my install?
<lucazade> yes murrine displays dots
<mac_v> hmm ...
<lucazade> seems a bug
<mac_v> then i think its not treeview , because i have specifically assigned treeview to clearlooks , :(
 * mac_v bangs his head
<dashua> mac_v, Add style "treeview" {	engine "clearlooks" {		hint = "treeview"	}}
<dashua> and widget_class "*.<GtkTreeView>*" style "treeview"
<dashua> The dots will be gone
<mac_v> hmm! i was using treeview-header!
<mac_v> dashua: thanx :)
<dashua> Np
<mac_v> \o/ no pox
<mac_v> dashua: you wanna propose Hanso for the community themes?
<SiDi> I wnt it there
<SiDi> and Alvaro too :D
<SiDi> in blue shades with an xfwm.. :D
<mac_v> SiDi: i think dashua is shy , we should start the initiative ;p
 * mac_v surprised at mpt's presence in artwork room ;) hmm... maybe software store ;)
<mpt> yes indeed
<mac_v> mpt: when can we actually test it ?
<mac_v> is is out?
<mac_v> it*
<mpt> mac_v, it's in Karmic now: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store
<mpt> I'm here because I've just added to the spec <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore> a few things that artists could help out with.
<mac_v> i noticed ;)
<mpt> At the moment we need an icon for the Store itself (!), an animated icon for "In Progress", and an emblem to place over applications that are already installed.
 * mac_v missed the update by 1 hr :( , updating now
<mpt> Would it make sense for me to post to the artwork list about those things?
<mac_v> mpt: mailing list would be the best start
<mpt> ok, ta
<andreasn> mpt, process-working for "In Progress" perhaps?
<mpt> andreasn, is there any easy way to see how that icon looks in the various themes I have installed?
<andreasn> apart from switching between the theme, not that I know of
<andreasn> does any other theme apart from High Contrast have a spinner icon?
<mpt> well, if it's in the same directory path in each theme, "eog /something/*/something.svg" might work :-)
<mac_v> mpt: you can do as you ^ described , just assign the icons intended for the same item to different menu options [i.e label it differently]
<mac_v> so if the menu has 5 items you can compare 5 different versions of the icon at once
<mpt> but I have no idea where the themes are stored or what their directory structure is
<mac_v> mpt: most apps have their icons in ~/.themes/themeName/24x24/apps/  , you need to ask mvo or who wrote the app about the icon labels
<mac_v> mpt: oops! ~/.icons/themeName/24x24/apps/
<mpt> So all themes are installed in every user's home directory? I doubt that :-)
<knome> /usr/share/icons/[theme]/24x24/apps/
<mac_v> the custom themes , the main themes are in
<mac_v> ^
<mpt> ta
<mac_v> mpt: sometimes apps also have their own directory , like for example gnome-power-manager has icons in /usr/share/gnome-power-manager/icons , these icons can be labelled accordingly and be used from a theme in your home directory, you first have to find out from mvo
<mpt> got it
<mpt> find /usr/share/icons/ -name process-working.png | xargs eog
<mpt> andreasn, not really, though I'm having trouble articulating why. It's something like, process-working is for warning you about impending interface changes (e.g. changes in the layout of a Web page) during a brief task. But the icon I want is more about "yes, I'm doing the stuff you asked me to do".
<mpt> andreasn, I guess it's much the same reason as why you wouldn't expect to see process-working in a download manager window.
<andreasn> ah, yes, I guess it's for more brief processes
<andreasn> but I have no idea how such a icon would look
<mpt> well, I've described a suggested appearance in the spec, complete with extremely-low-resolution mockup :-)
<mpt> t.b.h. I don't think it matters much what it looks like, as long as it looks different from, and more solid than, process-working.
<mac_v> mpt: why is it in the universe repo ? and not as a part of the ubuntu-desktop meta package?
<mpt> mac_v, it got into Ubuntu in the past day. It hasn't been through MIR yet.
<mac_v> hehe...
<dashua> mac_v, Do I need to make a wiki page for community theme inclusion?
<dashua> Or just have the source code available via Launchpad?
<mac_v> dashua: i think so , thorwil might be the best person about this
<dashua> If so, I'll work on getting them together.  I have a lot of things going on here.
<dashua> Ok, I'm off to work.  If you here anything just ping me.  I'll be home later. :)
<dashua> hear*
<mac_v> thorwil: how doe a theme get included in community theme package? ^
<mac_v> does*
<dashua> I would really like Hanso to make it in.  Alvaro as well.
<dashua> mac_v, I fixed the OOo bug, if you want to check it out.
<thorwil> mac_v: well, it should be on the wiki
<mac_v> dashua: ^
<thorwil> mac_v: for all else, better ask Andrew
<dashua> Ok.  I'll work on it soon.  Thx.
<mac_v> dashua: yeah , i did the same OOo mistake in my theme too ;) ,will check it out in a bit have to reboot [updates]
<mac_v> thorwil: thanx :)
<mac_v> thorwil: hi... are you working on the chasing arrows for software store? if not does it have to be done similar to the gnome process-working?
<lucazade> thorwil i would thank you for mentioning turrican for the community themes
<mac_v> thorwil: in the sense the number of icons in a single file
<thorwil> mac_v: no and no idea
<mac_v> hmm...ok.  thanx
<thorwil> lucazade: np :)
<lucazade> :)
<thorwil> mac_v: i will likely start a job tomorrow that might take 3 weeks. so don't expect to see much or anything from me ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: great :) on the job .... too bad for me :(
<mac_v> ;p
<thorwil> heh
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-26
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<caty> heya
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-27
<DanaG> hmm, I added new comments to this bug, about xsplash (which is partly an artwork thing, isn't it?):
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xsplash/+bug/412598
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 412598 in xsplash "Xsplash only uses the default wallpaper during transition to desktop." [Undecided,Won't fix]
<DanaG> Current behavior: usplash -> xsplash (brown) -> gdm (blue) -> xsplash (brown) -> gdm (blue) -> user-desktop.
<DanaG> Better behavior:   usplash -> xsplash (brown) -> gdm (blue) -> xsplash (blue) -> user-desktop.
<natewiebe13> so today is artwork first drop.. what exactly happens?
<thorwil> artwork is dropped on the floor and mat_t picks up the pieces, i think
<natewiebe13> haha
<thorwil> i admit to not knowing any more than what is written at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkFirstDrop
<natewiebe13> okay.. thanks
<natewiebe13> thorwil: supposedly there was an update on the splash this morning..
<natewiebe13> thorwil: have you updated yet?
<thorwil> no, i'm not following karmic
<natewiebe13> okay.. if you want i'll let you know if anything changes (im updating right now)
<SiDi> natewiebe13, yeh but the floor is a grid-like floor so if your artwork is tight, it might fall below and not get picked!
 * SiDi goes bed
<thorwil> bad SiDi
<SiDi> bad thorwil !
<thorwil> papa-pa-papa-pam, da-papa-dam, papa-dapadapa-pam
<mat_t> thorwil: I'll leave picking to Ken this time I guess ;)
<SiDi> mat_t, see, he's so evil that he waited for you to answer for leaving just before !
<SiDi> That phrase doesn't make sense in English.
<mat_t> SiDi: bugger, indeed
<natewiebe13> anyone know where to discuss xsplash?
<mac_v> mat_t: i do not mention to use 2 backgrounds! ,rather just one!
<mat_t> mac_v: you proposed using one pre-gdm and one post-gdm
<mat_t> mac_v: didn't you?
<mac_v> mat_t: nope , pls recheck the description ;0
 * mat_t rechecks
<mat_t> mac_v: right, sorry
<mac_v> mat_t: thanks :)
<mat_t> mac_v: still, we got that covered :) So I marked invalid so that Cody can sleep tonight ;)
<mac_v> mat_t: lol sure , no probs, i started the bug long back ;)
<mat_t> cool
<mac_v> mat_t: i'll just copy paste this irc chat, so that other are aware :)
 * kwwii_ is back at home now, working tomorrow
<mat_t> mac_v: not a big fan of irc chats in bug reports
<mat_t> mac_v: just write a normal comment pls
<mac_v> mat_t: ok , wont do it , sure
<mat_t> thx
 * mac_v grumbles , mat_t making me type ;p
 * mat_t takes sweet revenge
<mac_v> kwwii_: hi... take rest... i'll bug you tomorrow , with a couple of things ;)
<kwwii_> ;)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> andreasn_: hi... small doubt , how do i convert a several svg to a gif animation?
<andreasn_> are you sure you want a gif? perhaps better to go for a apng?
<mac_v> apng ? hmm or did you mean png?
<andreasn> apng, I wonder if we can render those though, or if that's only gecko
<andreasn> the way we did the spinner and some animations in packagekit is to do still frames in a grid
<mac_v> andreasn: this is for software store , there seems to want to do it like firefox , not want but one person is contributing to the code using firefox's method , which uses gif
<mac_v> s/there seems/they seem
<mac_v> i think nautilus way of using png would be better? wouldnt it?
<andreasn> well, both methods work
<andreasn> gif puts a 256 indexed color limit upon you
<mac_v> ;) or should i say easier for me to do ;p
<mac_v> gif ah ha.. right i forgot
<andreasn> ah, right. Firefox used to do throbber.gif, but for 3.0+ it uses /toolkit/themes/gnomestripe/global/icons/loading_16.png
<andreasn> anyway, that requires support for animated png's
<andreasn> drifting off, sorry
<andreasn> the way I would do it is to export the stills from Inkscape and then put them together in GIMP
<mac_v> that was what i was thinking , of doing
<andreasn> if you want to do a apng, there is a firefox extension that can create those
 * mac_v googles
<mac_v> andreasn: does firefox 3.0 use apng or ...? i'm asking because the image is labeled .png
<andreasn> yes, it's called png, but it's animated
<andreasn> it's the throbber that animates when you're loading a page
<mac_v> andreasn: ah... thanx i suggest it to rugby , i always wondered how the png was throbbing ;)
<mac_v> andreasn: was this the addon you mentioned? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5519 or it there a better one?
<andreasn> yes, that's the one
<andreasn> but it's not that good :/
<mac_v> andreasn: thanx again :)
<mac_v> andreasn: huh? , then how do i get a good output?
<andreasn> oh, it works, but it's a bit hard to work with some times
<andreasn> but it does the trick
<mac_v> hehe... i'll test it then
<FLOZz> Bye
<natewiebe13> anyone know whats going on with todays art drop?
<natewiebe13> xsplash was updated.. it looks good besides the throbber moving in the wrong direction.. and after i changed the background
<natewiebe13> im glad the ubuntu logo isnt white like in the demo mockups
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-28
<kwwii_> so...I am back at work (with a long list of things to do already)
<raozuzu> hi all
<kwwii_> hi
<mac_v> kwwii: hi... did you have time to look at this > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/420028/comments/3 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420028 in software-store "Pending/In Progress view needs icon" [Undecided,New]
<mac_v> kwwii: the format limitation has been solved  , mpt likes it, but i would like a review of the icon
<mac_v> the icon in action> http://videobin.org/+cv/f4.html
<kwwii> mac_v: on the phone, one moment
<mac_v> no probs...
<andreasn> mac_v, how did you end up doing it?
<mac_v> andreasn: not me , rugby did it, using python i guess! it uses multiple png images , similar to nm applet
<andreasn> ah, ok
<andreasn> I think the animation looks good, great work!
<mac_v> yeah , the animation looks good
<kwwii> ok
<kwwii> mac_v: looks nifty
<mac_v> kwwii:  :) thanx...
<raozuzu> nice, nice animation :D
<c7p> hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-29
<natewiebe13> anyone know if xsplash has been fixed yet?
<natewiebe13> i found a video where the guy's throbber moves horizontally (like it is supposed to) but mine moves vertically
<SnackWork> that sentence made me giggle.
<ckontros> Now that I read it again, yeah. :)
<ckontros> Damn. Now I can't stop. :P
 * ckontros wants to put quote in title.
<mac_v> MadsRH: nice icon :) , but a bit too saturated , a lighter brown maybe?
<MadsRH> mac_v: hi, yes but a lighter brown makes it hard to see the logo. rugby471 suggested a border round the logo
<mac_v> MadsRH: yeah a border would be better
<mac_v> MadsRH: a border similar to the bag's handle , should work great :)
 * mac_v hopes MadsRH had added the the svg , would have been easier to fool around with it ;p
<mac_v> MadsRH: naaa , on second thought , i think the 24px looks just perfect as is[maybe the handle could be darker] , only the 128px bag needs a color adjust
<mac_v> i mean the second icon
<MadsRH> mac_v: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/paper%20bag_with_content.svg
<mac_v> MadsRH: i'm not able to view it :(  , due to the white space
<mac_v> just edit the name of the file
<MadsRH> mac_v: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/paper_bag_with_content.svg
 * mac_v hmm wonder why did inkscape crashed , on receiving the IM ping o.0
<mac_v> now > XML Parsing Error: prefix not bound to a namespace :(
<mac_v> MadsRH: there is some error with the svg > error on line 50 at column 56: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 58 at column 60: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 67 at column 91: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 117 at column 90: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 131 at column 6: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 139 at column 47: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 146 at column 92: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 149 at column 42: Namespace prefix inkscape for label on g is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 192 at column 32: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 194 at column 19: Namespace prefix sodipodi for nodetypes on path is not defined
<mac_v> error on line 196 at column 42: Namespace prefix inkscape for label on g is not defined
<mac_v> Below is a rendering of the page up to the first error.
<mac_v> ^ thats from midori
<MadsRH> mac_v: works fine in Inkscape  here :-/
<mac_v> MadsRH:  i dont know why , it didnt show up in firefox , so i tried in midori browser , doesnt show fully :(
<mac_v> I'm on karmic BTW
<MadsRH> mac_v: I'm on Jaunty
<mac_v> MadsRH: maybe a rendered version , pls :)
<MadsRH> mac_v: you mean PNG?
<mac_v> yeah , png
<MadsRH> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/paper_bag_with_content.png
<mac_v> MadsRH: the bottom seems a bit dark still... BTW ,o.0 ,  why has it been done in 800x794px ?
<mac_v> rest looks great :)
 * ckontros waves
<SiDi> hey kwwii, next time try to go a little more in the south, we have even sexier beaches ;P http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2524812
<raozuzu> SiDi: you're right! :P lol
<mac_v> solaris manzoor is back \o/
<raozuzu> solaris manzoor?
<ckontros> Like the bizarro Sailor Moon? :P
<raozuzu> lol!
<mac_v> hehe
<mac_v>  hope he is not here! , else we'd get a mail about that too ;)
<raozuzu> mac_v: eheh... you're right :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-30
<SiDi> mac_v: can you please show me a screenshot of the notification bubble you get when muting teh volume ?
<mac_v> SiDi: http://imagebin.ca/view/2JH7-gV.html
<mac_v> color problems, eh ?
<SiDi> Danke
<SiDi> I just wanted to check if gnome was also setting the gauge to 0 when muting
<mac_v> SiDi: hrm you could have just asked :/
<SiDi> Yeh... that's true :P
<SiDi> Thanks anyway ;p
<mac_v> np ;)
<SiDi_> kwwii: who is the author of the humanity icon theme ? it's you, right ?
<MadsRH> mac_v: Hi :-)
<mac_v> MadsRH: hi ...
<MadsRH> mac_v: What do you think about this icon for the Software store? (I didn't draw it - obviously) http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/1128603056_2b52a7e97b_o.png
<MadsRH> mac_v: I mean, does it make any sence as a metaphor?
<mac_v> hmmm , wouldnt indicate a "store" , which is what they seem to be looking for
<MadsRH> mac_v: right, but it also says that it should convey the idea of thousands of available applications
<mac_v> i really dont know what to say ;)
<mac_v> MadsRH: how about a shopping basket with apps?
<MadsRH> you're right about the missing store link
<MadsRH> mac_v: yes, that would be better
<mac_v> i was thinking about making one today , but got tied up with some bugs
<MadsRH> mac_v: you should! Well, there's always tomorrow ;-)
<mac_v> MadsRH: i'v done a rough take of your bag , and stopped half way
<mac_v> MadsRH: i started to do > http://imagebin.ca/view/DlXlplwO.html , but was thinking a basket would be better
<MadsRH> mac_v: Fantastic. I was hoping some that actually knew vector would pick the idea up :P
<mac_v> with the bag i could only get 2/3 apps
<mac_v> was hoping to add more with a basket...
<MadsRH> right. Perhaps a shopping cart?
<mac_v> i thought of that , but the cart is used for all internet checkout
<mac_v> so wondered mpt might reject it :(
<MadsRH> mac_v: hhhmmm, true.
<mac_v> actually i have to finish the battery icons for notifyosd  have only done half the icons !
<MadsRH> mac_v: Breathe or ?
<mac_v> human
<MadsRH> mac_v: I can see why that might be slightly more important
<mac_v> MadsRH: very minor tweaks, actually , kwwii was away ,so i too slacked ;)
<mac_v> MadsRH: you do your wallpaper stuff in inkscape ?or...?
<MadsRH> mac_v: I mostly submitted photos, so no :-)
<mac_v> ;)
<MadsRH> mac_v: I'm of to bed since it's past midnight here. Looking forward to your software store icon suggestion LOL
<mac_v> yeah me too  , goodnite :)
<MadsRH> O:-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-30
<lontra> hi, if i want to get the new light-themes for maverick with the update radiance theme for lucid what's the best way to do this? add a deb-src for maverick, apt-get build-dep gtk2-engines-murrine light-themes, then debuild them?
<lontra> or do i need to rebuild something else?
<janimo> Hello, does anyone know which application was used to create the syslinux boot splash used as the first image on the LiveCD ?
<janimo> I'd like to replicate that look for a deirvative and being quite a beginner in graphic manipulation it would help to at least know that I am not trying to do it using the wron g tools (gimp in this case)
<darkmatter> vish: and yet another gnome-component becomes a bloat bucket. meh. I think I'll just uninstall mah gui ans return to the good ol days of monochromatic awesome. that or go xfce *shrugs, disillusioned by the general design stupidity*
<vish> :D
<vish> darkmatter: btw, what was that question you had asked about the logout dialogues?
<vish>  <darkmatter> vish: question, since I'm not running uby quite yet. does ubuntu still use the ghey all-in-one session dialog or is it using the proper gnome-session dialogs now? (separate logout/switch and shutdown). I'm  making a list of too-do items for when I reinstall
<vish> hmm.. when did we have that^^
<vish> the all-in-one session is from gnome..
<darkmatter> vish: ahh. was just wondering how uby currently handles them?
<vish> yeah , now logout , you get a prompt.. no all-in-one thingy ;)
<vish> darkmatter: we have 7options-to-quit-session-from-menu thing now '_
<darkmatter> vish. it was in the good lol days (few years ago, last time I had used uby). it handlked the dialog ala e (one row of buttons for logout/switch, then a row of faties under it for various power options)
<vish> yeah , that was default gnome behavior , that was dumped a few releases back.
<darkmatter> vish:vish, it was the default "sand gnome" behaviour :P, and ahh ahh ahh. I'll prolly have to hack the behaviour a bit then (teh missus has crappy target accuracy sometimes, vision issue) to many targets = fail. guess I'll trey to drop em all and turn logout/shutdown to use the new dialogs (ya know, the ones gnomers stole from libssui? ;P)
<darkmatter> dun wanna see her getting pissed at yet another desktop xD
<darkmatter> vish: not that I'm bitching or anything mind you (it's not like you're the one responsible :P), but for things like that it really is best to keep the # of options presented (be it within a dialog or within a menu, for whatever purpose) to a minimum
<vish> nooooooo! more options , more kde! ;p
<darkmatter> for the same general reason behind why a sidebar should have collapsible categories, because contrary to epic levels of gnomeyness, unnecessary scrolling and visual clutter are "labor intensive" :P
<darkmatter> vish: nautilus new file conflict needs to die a painful death as well ;o
<darkmatter> and it's not about options or a lack thereof, it's about sanely categorizing and grouping stuff so that you don't create information overload, which as we a;; know is one of the biggest fail points of current-generation software
<darkmatter> shoving everything in the users face _at the same time_
<vish> i'm really not sure why every item needs to move around just because i'v attached a new device...
<darkmatter> vish: things like that as well. which I why I told them, repeatedly, that devices should be near the bottom of the list, not the freaking to. frequently used items go at the top so that they're predictable targets
<darkmatter> that's also why the sidebar should collapse. so that you can work within a specific target group without scrolling. we can argue for it as efficiency or consistency. both apply
<darkmatter> I man. this is the no-brainer bits
<darkmatter> mean*
<darkmatter> vish: I'm loving the maverick themes. the particular shade of orange for selections is a bit hash imo, but overall they're quite calming
<vish> yeah , the themes seem quite pleasant..
<vish> the color harsh at times though..
 * darkmatter prefers radiance because the orange is less obnoxious on a light background
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-31
<darkmatter> vish: http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/6519/screenshotpy.png <-- gonna retheme that to be uby-ish, including wiki and launchpad searches :D
<darkmatter> vish: thorwil: I have begun the epic job of creating userChome.css for moz apps to natively theme all major (common) extensions (teh icons). I should be finished when I reach the ripe old age of 60
<vish> darkmatter: that retheme looks sweeeeet!
<darkmatter> looks better with a minimal firefox http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6527/screenshotpr.png <-- userchrome "app" button anyone? ;D
<vish> gah! whats that in the right corner!
<vish> the orange blob ;p
<darkmatter> vish. it's a wip mod of a opensource googly page gonna add an "ubuntu" banner (it has various engines on mouseover) with "wiki" and "launchpad" as search options
<darkmatter> vish: from stock css experiment. its the firefox icon from the theme :P
<darkmatter> (compact menu)
<darkmatter> I'll change it to a standard tools thing later. it's just for fun  ;)
<vish> hehe , was wondering what the eye of Sauron was doing there! :D
<darkmatter> gonna make the google/wikipedia/youtube/twitter/ubuntu/<whatever> multiseach page fit with radiance/ambiance as well. then suggest it replace the standard search ;o
<darkmatter> vish. using stock for everything is sooo easy. I wonder why noone just packs up a custom css as a part of every distros branding?
<vish> darkmatter: replace the default Ubuntu one?  i dont think that would happen.. with the new rebranding and dots emphasis
<darkmatter> vish: no. I mean have the multiseach startpage be rebranded to match :P
<vish> ah..
<darkmatter> instead of just a "google" page. the banner changes the ingine. mouseover displays the available searches. tis neat
<darkmatter> engine*
<darkmatter> more useful than plane old google
<darkmatter> plain*
<darkmatter> bah. sleepy head typo time
<darkmatter> so you get direct access to whichever search you link to in the code. just gotta add in the options/banners and tweak the scripts
<darkmatter> vish. add the ubuntu links under the search field, redo the box in dark on lightish grey with a slight gradient banners for the search engines, maybe with the ubuntu banner above all, engine logo under it on the right. so the branding is always present. haven't gotten the specifics nailed. but as long as it fits with the feel add in cheesy orange glow around the search entry turn the "i" into a "?" (orange and branded, or maybe just p
<darkmatter> oh. and dots. cant forget dots. I'll probably just rip a bg image(s) from the official site for everything :P
<vish> hmm, interesting .. instead of the searchbar we do it inline..
<darkmatter> vish: on mouseover (animates in/out)http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8884/screenshotyyb.png <-- add ubuntu in there as part of the search banners :D, engine banners below the ubuntu brand or something similar
<darkmatter> tell me the general concept isn't more suited to "social from the start". go on. I dare you
<darkmatter> use the new potato stamp for the favicon. etc etc
<vish> darkmatter: is that a working css?
<darkmatter> vish: yup
<vish> darkmatter: nice work!! :)
<darkmatter> vish: bah. it's just a mod of a mod of an opensource thing
<vish> darkmatter: heh, modesty doesnt suit you ;p
<darkmatter> vish: original is http://go.infinise.com/source/InfiniseGo-v2.5.zip
<darkmatter> can call the uby one UbuntuGO! :P
<darkmatter> make the help popup match notify-osd xD
<vish> darkmatter: did you see the tooltip work Andy was doing?
<darkmatter> vish: nope. not yet
<darkmatter> oh. you meant the round corners. lol
<darkmatter> nm. yeah
<vish> heh, yeah, the notify-osd tooltips ;p
 * darkmatter compiled notify osd on suse. it's actually kinda ok for a growl clone :P
<darkmatter> vish: I should make the selections/animations fancier so it kinda fits with the bannering on the unity slideshow (in maverick). dark bar at the top. first letter of the engine done "sticker style like the logo
<darkmatter> on the other side an smalish. like the uby banner
<darkmatter> actually*
<vish> darkmatter: odd, i cant go back to main page when i use that^ infinise-GO
<darkmatter> I'll have to do some mockups
<doctormo> darkmatter: Does it remember?
<vish> oh wait, false alarm!
<darkmatter> doctor mo. haven't tried yet. just playing with the css at the moment
<darkmatter> if not I'll just hack it too remember
<darkmatter> vish: instead of zooming out I should fade in/out have a dark banner at the top that displays the engine list instead on fadeout to select then zooms in/down slightly... hmm
<vish> we can probably just leave them in the same position, and fade out those not active..
<vish> the animation is cool, but a bit too fast
<vish> fade out+desaturate
<vish> darkmatter: did we both say the same thing? :D
<darkmatter> vish: my reasoning is thus (still animated, but with a slight shift), if we add uby specific search, etc (just uby and one or two more common) the targewts may get a bit smallish without a grid. only open-api sctuff though :P
<vish> ah, no.. nvm you like animation ;)
<darkmatter> uby options should be wiki, launchpad, forums (packages maybe?)
<darkmatter> vish: nah. doesn't have to be animated
<vish> darkmatter: why i thought a static position would be better is..  when i need to change the engine.. i have to first go to the center and then to whichever option i wanna change... but if they were static options, i can just go directly
<vish> thats what i found frustrating while trying to use it..
<darkmatter> yeah
<darkmatter> but how to avid double uby branding? (since one of the engines (well. kinda combine opensearch shtuff) will be ubuntu specific UBUNTU <new line> ubuntu would look kinda odd. well. I guess we could just saturate/desaturate the big boy as well
<darkmatter> avoid*
<darkmatter> I'm considering auto detecting IP and having the weather displayed as well (monochrome) :P
<vish> darkmatter: now, are we reinventing iGoogle ;p
<darkmatter> vish: you have smartas tags, use em :P
<darkmatter> was only kidding. that part of the screen will be used for general links (like support or and whatnot)
<vish> ah.. tuck them away below with just icons.. ?
<darkmatter> maybe do the links in an orange bar (like the top banner of the official uby site) with inverse colors for the various icons. either just icons or an entire row of goodness that links to the relative opart of the actual uby site, for quick access
<darkmatter> then darl banner at the top. some pretty dotting with the ubuntu logo inb it, and then the other engines (google etc) under it in a row (blackish), all on lightish uby grey. make nice use of the palett
<darkmatter> dark*
<vish> well, wouldnt using the orange for those support options.. in something we intend to replace as a home page for *ever* , be too much of a distraction?
<darkmatter> hmmm... yeah. perhaps
<darkmatter> maybe like the version tour/download bar?
<darkmatter> orange text on grey, black go arrows
<darkmatter> bit differ the shade of the bg image/gradient so the 'services bar" stands out just enough
<vish> yeah, might work..  or even better would be to just use the way support is presented
<vish> already on the main page
<darkmatter> yeah. that'll work too
<darkmatter> gotta tweak the sizing of the page as well to murder the scrollbar
<darkmatter> should create a firefox extension as part of the uby-package so it has an ever present home "tab" (just an icon) with some uby styled "search" favicon
<darkmatter> anyway. bbl. nap time. will discuss more so I can start implementing changes
<domjohnson> Hi
<domjohnson> Am I too late to submit?
<knome> submit what?
<domjohnson> A desktop background?
<domjohnson> Wallpaper*
<knome> domjohnson, for maverick, probably.
<domjohnson> ok
<domjohnson> Thanks :)
<knome> no problem
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-01
<darkmatter> icon text is evil, because having a dvd-r say dvd-r would be a travesty!
 * darkmatter smacks lazy icon people around
<iainfarrell> hey Lauree__
<Lauree__> hello!
<MarkDude> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_Artwork
<MarkDude> Notice any similarity with F13?
<MarkDude> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2424094/F13%20or%2010.10%20wallpaper.png   RLY? Is that the 10.10 wallpaper? Or is it F13?
<MarkDude> This has to be a mistaken report that the globes are the final wallpaper
<MarkDude> Please tell me that is NOT the final pic
 * MarkDude is begging ya'
<MarkDude> Also look on the front of Fedora's live desktop media- the rocket trail is very similar to the 3 planets
 * thorwil recalls the CoC and finds himself unable to react to that in any way
<MarkDude> The CoC prevents noticing a similarity here?
 * MarkDude is just hoping that is NOT the final pic.
<MarkDude> My guess is that if it is, that people were not aware of Fedora's prior art
<MarkDude> Nobody is bad here, or being accused of anything
<thorwil> actually, i do have one thing to say: this would be a great story for OMG UBUNTU
 * MarkDude has signed the CoC & the leadership CoC, I will withdraw anything that I have said that is offensive, I dont know how a *question* regarding if the pic that is supposedly the final for 10.10 violates the CoC
 * MarkDude is genuine in his question
<MarkDude> comparing me a to  site that trolls sometimes for reactions, is NOT fair
<MarkDude> IF I was OMG - I would post & ask questions later
<thorwil> MarkDude: ok, so if you are serious and genuine: my remark wasn't about you being offensive, but me being offensive
 * MarkDude will idle here and see if there are other folks willing to not compare me to a trollsite
 * MarkDude bites tongue
<thorwil> that wallpaper overlay does not make any sense to my eyes and i'm frustrated to have spend any time with looking at it
<MarkDude> http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-New-Wallpapers-and-Theme-of-Ubuntu-10-10-153934.shtml
<MarkDude> http://fusionlinux.org/2010/05/25/lucky-13/
<MarkDude> The orange spots are too similar to the rocket trails on Fedora's installable media, IMHO
<MarkDude> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MediaArt/F13
<MarkDude> thorwil, sry if I took what you said the wrong way.  My intent is to see if Ubuntu is locked in to using that paper, or if we can avoid the inevitable teasing that the FOSS universe will give :)
<thorwil> MarkDude: to my eyes, you could as well claim that santa clause looks too much like a smurf (excluding papa smurf!)
<thorwil> good night! :)
<MarkDude> Fair enough :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-02
<troy_s> MarkDude: Hello. Who controls the default wallpaper in Ubuntu?
<MarkDude> idk troy_s
<troy_s> MarkDude: Odd.
<troy_s> MarkDude: And yet you come into the channel and ask as though someone in here has control over it.
 * MarkDude was asking for confirmation, that was my 1st impetus
<MarkDude> I dont trust OMG as a source
<troy_s> MarkDude: Second, while _I_ may agree that the wallpaper may be disagreeable in some capacities, I'd encourage you to actually think through your thought process before you conclude that in fact _you_ perhaps have a solution.
<troy_s> MarkDude: The wallpaper will be the wallpaper. It has been that way since 4.10.
<troy_s> MarkDude: And finally, I'd ask you what validity and credibility _anyone_ has in Libre art and design? Once you find that person, you may wish to start paying attention to the 'teasing' or commentary. Until then, it is a blind and worthless mob chasing after blind and worthless ideals.
 * MarkDude has no solution here. When I asked some friends for their opinion, they suggested that maybe Ubuntu people (being used to using Ubuntu) had not SEEN Fedora's wallpaper
<MarkDude> It was suggested I bring it here
<troy_s> MarkDude: Fedora is not exactly worth comparing against as they are as backwards as any other distribution.
<MarkDude> agreed :)
<troy_s> MarkDude: I'd suggest that perhaps it is a much deeper and cultural issue. That said, before one can cite a problem, it is probably worth framing exactly what it is. Otherwise we simply run around with our hands in the air screaming out OMFG.
<MarkDude> just the similarity
<troy_s> MarkDude: And _that_ is difficult. At least to arrive at any sort of agreement upon (for various reasons)
<troy_s> MarkDude: When you are looking at absolutely NOTHING - like closing your eyes - you may find similarities with EVERYTHING.
<MarkDude> They look similar to *some* not all, so I brought it to the *art * people
<troy_s> MarkDude: The point is - the chronic failure of Fedora / SUSE / and Ubuntu art, design, presence, aesthetics, experience, et al are symptomatic of the same disease.
<MarkDude> Look I would be willing to discuss (possibly debate) If I knew what you were saying :)
<troy_s> MarkDude: Similar? I see nothing worth commenting on. They both exhibit a complete inept degree of ... anything. Evaluating it is worthless.
<troy_s> MarkDude: I'm saying, move along. They are both empty of anything. Nothing to see. Literally.
 * MarkDude withdraws point
 * MarkDude agrees with you
<MarkDude> Wishes I would have put it the way you did
<troy_s> MarkDude: Sorry... if we were talking something that had anything to do with any emotion or technique or execution, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. But they are equally worthless. Following in a long lineage of empty MUSTNOTBECONTRASTY, MUSTBEUSABLE, MUSTFITALLICONSEVERYWHERE piles of tripe rubbish peddled for the past two generations.
<troy_s> MarkDude: We have the aesthetic worth of amoebas.
<MarkDude> BTW, the other wallpapers that I saw on http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-New-Wallpapers-and-Theme-of-Ubuntu-10-10-153934.shtml are actually pretty cool
<MarkDude> Just one I was wondering about, wanted to ask the *source*
<troy_s> MarkDude: And why are those 'pretty cool' ;)
<MarkDude> Are you the caterpillar from Through the Looking Glass?
<troy_s> MarkDude: (Anything beyond "Well it doesn't resemble what someone would barf up after drinking too much vodka and eating a salmon souffle" would suffice.)
<MarkDude> Call me a simpleton, I was hoping there would be a meerkat somewhere, barring that, the others meet acceptable standards
<troy_s> MarkDude: Ok. On animals - Mark has banished them since Intrepid. He has more or less said "someone prove me wrong" but they aren't a focus point.
<darkmatter> haha. got you you corrupted bastard file *burns backup*
<troy_s> MarkDude: Problem is Mark, you have to define acceptable. _That_ has worth.
<troy_s> MarkDude: And it is also equally challenging.
 * MarkDude gets it
<troy_s> MarkDude: Dare I say, if someone actually stopped to try and define that, we'd probably all be about a decade ahead in our ability to evaluate art and design choices.
<MarkDude> Ubuntu's biggest issue is that it has *one* stockholder
<troy_s> MarkDude: Erm... no. That would mean that Fedora and SUSE do better, and they don't.
<troy_s> MarkDude: They fail equally miserably with equally worthless offerings.
 * MarkDude disagrees there
<troy_s> MarkDude: (And make no mistake, those are the _best_ selection of alternate wallpapers provided in Ubuntu since its inception. By a monumental leap. There are very concrete reasons that I'd stake that claim on.)
<darkmatter> linux" aka the shit we do to piss people of technically and make their eyes bleed aethetically \o/
<MarkDude> Fedora picked a crappy pic for a reason
<MarkDude> it *tied in* with their theme
<troy_s> MarkDude: Fedora had _one_ era of successful work. It was Diana Fong's. Fedora 5, 6, 7. SINCE that time, they have been absolutely pathetic.
<MarkDude> Goddard & rocket ship
<troy_s> MarkDude: It is abject failure.
<MarkDude> still has a theme
<troy_s> MarkDude: Fedora has _since_ ridden on Fong's coattails.
<MarkDude> that relates to the crappy picture
<troy_s> MarkDude: Agreed. So perhaps that is 'one' part of the complex puzzle. Concept.
<MarkDude> What about Puppy Linux?
<troy_s> MarkDude: What about it?
<MarkDude> Very simplistic style  matches their simple theme
<MarkDude> it works on old hardware
<troy_s> MarkDude: Erm. Simplistic. As in 'something of low intellectual prowess'?
<MarkDude> art need not be complex to be Art
<troy_s> MarkDude: Right. Design constraint. Is that relevant really? Let's take it back to green / black monochrome too. Or 16 bit displays.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Where do you draw your line? Why?
<MarkDude> The new wallpaper offends me on many levels
<troy_s> MarkDude: Those are all hidden questions that people like to answer with a YES or a NO as a net sum answer.
<MarkDude> in my gut
<troy_s> MarkDude: Right. What are they?
<MarkDude> my artistic sensibilities
<troy_s> MarkDude: Great. Goto 10. What are they.
<MarkDude> The colors dont play well with each other
<troy_s> MarkDude: Hrm. So a palette. So if we only had harmonious palette tones it would be fan-fscking-tastic right?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Is the solution strictly colour theory then?
<MarkDude> it looks like 3 light effects >> gradient flares were colored orange
<MarkDude> The balance does not follow the *thirds*
<MarkDude> to be balanced they should be over to the left *or* the right
<troy_s> MarkDude: Ok. Erm... Isn't aurora borealus just a 'light effect'? I'd hope that 'light effects' _can_ be compelling in certain contexts.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Hrm. Symmetrical?
<MarkDude> preferably to the right, imho
<troy_s> MarkDude: Mirror image symmetrical?
<MarkDude> to have the subject not in the center
<MarkDude> Its not a portrait
<troy_s> MarkDude: Ok... so Composition. Perhaps another component of this puzzle.
<troy_s> MarkDude: (And yet all classically composed portraiture since the Renaissance has been 'off centre'... odd you feel that portraiture conjures ideas of mirror symmetry.)
<MarkDude> functionally many folks type without light, that pic wont light the keyboard much either
 * MarkDude is not sure if you know what I mean by thirds
<troy_s> MarkDude: Hrm... thirds.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Surely you aren't referring to the rule of thirds.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Which is a rough approximation of Phi aka the Golden Ratio.
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Which ... lo and behold ... is a westernized notion stemming from the Renaissance?
<MarkDude> if Fedoras pic had something *almost* going for it it is that the trails
<troy_s> MarkDude: Right. May I ask you a question?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Why do you value your opinion over that of others?
 * MarkDude thinks it dates back to our primordial selves
<troy_s> MarkDude: It doesn't.
<troy_s> MarkDude: It's a cultural aesthetic actually.
<troy_s> MarkDude: But nice try.
<MarkDude> Like that can be proved
<troy_s> MarkDude: It can and has.
<darkmatter> composition is not ruled by empirical or hard set "this is how you do it" (contrary to popular beliefs)
<MarkDude> was the circle *invented* or discovered?
<darkmatter> applies to software design as well, which is why ui's fail so freaking hard
<troy_s> darkmatter: Strictly speaking, everything you see in today's day and age does. The Renaissance was _that_ impactful.
<MarkDude> rational people can take both sides there
<troy_s> MarkDude: Only if you are ethnocentric.
<MarkDude> the Greeks *discovered* balance
<troy_s> MarkDude: Ugh.
<MarkDude> if you say invented thats fair
<troy_s> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/world/americas/26iht-currents.html?_r=1
<MarkDude> possibly the Etruscans. Their records are few & far between tho :D
<troy_s> http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Culture-Visual-Perception/dp/0672608251
<troy_s> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11487292
<troy_s> Getting us back to the "Why do you value your opinion more than that of others with regards to art and design?"
<darkmatter> troy_s: strictly speaking is apples to oranges. I know it _does_ , just saying that it _shouldn't_, as it is the end result that matters.
<troy_s> (And no, there are no easy answers.)
<troy_s> darkmatter: It comes bundled with a whole bunch of things that people don't want to look at. They don't want to see. They don't want to think about.
<darkmatter> troy_s: precisely
<troy_s> darkmatter: But it _does_ at least begin to explain some of the reasons why - in the end - our wallpapers are ZOMFGSUCKUGLY.
<troy_s> etc.
<MarkDude> 1st opinion of mine I brought to this channel , my opinion that the pic is similar to F13
<MarkDude> 2nd was it offends my sensibilities
<MarkDude> my opinion is NO more relevant than anyones
<MarkDude> the money behind the project has the most important opinion
<MarkDude> correction 1 of the papers is lacking in my opinion
<MarkDude> the others are good enough
<MarkDude> I really like the water and branch one
<MarkDude> My intent was to * ask* if others saw the similarities with F13. apparently not
<MarkDude> troy_s, are you into Nihilism? Just curious :)
<darkmatter> troy_s: wallpaper et al not withstanding, in all it's epic cheesiness, at least the maverick art makes my eyes bleed a little less than the previous offerings
<darkmatter> speaking if. gotta burn one more backup and then I'm back on uby
<darkmatter> of*
<MarkDude> I can imagine it must be hard making art under the constraints that have been laid down
<troy_s> Wait.
<troy_s> So the client is always right? If the client wants blinking text on a piece and it drives away the audience... I wonder about that.
<MarkDude> I just imagine Mark S saying *reject* it actually relates to the name of the release
<troy_s> MarkDude: And no. I believe I have phrased and framed my concerns for the net sum reaction of "IS UGLY"
<MarkDude> For the purposes of this conversation yes
<troy_s> MarkDude: And I'd hope you can appreciate the complexity of it.
<MarkDude> And that you cant use animals
<MarkDude> unless it can be justified
<troy_s> MarkDude: And he doesn't. And he paid for almost every single thing you have ever seen in Ubuntu proper.
<MarkDude> He is a complex person -
<MarkDude> visionary *and* asshole
<MarkDude> the latter is what makes him so good at being a visionary\
<MarkDude> there are very few people in the world that could bring a project this far
<troy_s> MarkDude: Wow. I thought we were talking about a wallpaper.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Being strong willed doesn't exactly equate with a sensible and contemporary view on art and design complexities.
 * MarkDude imagines that he is having this conversation with Flea in the Big Liebowski
<MarkDude> are you sure you are not a Nihilist?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Needless to say. Even if there _was_ a wonderful bastion of aesthetic thinking there... even _then_... would that do the Libre world at large as much good as say, having the culture itself develop that bastion of aesthetics?
 * MarkDude agrees
 * MarkDude is a FOSS advocate
<troy_s> MarkDude: Egads man. Ad Hominem isn't exactly helping your case.
<MarkDude> Im just saying not all artists I have known are so negative
<MarkDude> or resigned
<troy_s> MarkDude: If I disagree with the vast bulk of attitude and opinion being peddled around Libre culture "art" and "design" surely doesn't equate me with being a nihilist.
<MarkDude> Your ignoring the question was assumed as a yes
<troy_s> MarkDude: And no. I'd also be leery of calling _anyone_ an artist until you probably looked at something they did.
<troy_s> MarkDude: As in general, that term should be granted... not claimed.
 * MarkDude has partially divested himself from Libre, hence my calling myself a *FOSS* advocate
<troy_s> MarkDude: I am just wondering exactly what one hopes to achieve. Is that fair?
<MarkDude> Of course
<troy_s> MarkDude: Open Source?
 * MarkDude proposes that Creative Commons has more Art sense than say your average Linux user
<troy_s> MarkDude: At any rate, that's a side debate. I am just wondering how much you think you could achieve. If I said "yes that's the default wallpaper" it likely wouldn't change much, correct?
<MarkDude> Might have saved the last few minutes of discussion :)
<MarkDude> Not that I mind it
<MarkDude> you are actually decent to disagree with
<MarkDude> you are pretty much fair in how you bring your point( as I try to be)
 * MarkDude would like to meet you at some event upcoming  :)
 * MarkDude admires how you bring opinions to the table
<MarkDude> I apologize if you viewed the Nihilism as an attack
<troy_s> MarkDude: I didn't.
<MarkDude> I was more trying to figure out you frame of reference
<MarkDude> as you are with me apparently :)
<troy_s> MarkDude: I think it avoided the issue. Yes I strongly disagree with about 99.9% of the culture's "art" and "design" thinking. True.
<troy_s> MarkDude: But that is not the culture's problem. That's mine.
<MarkDude> Ok but not the Life is horrible part?
 * MarkDude can see how that would be a broad brush on my part
<troy_s> MarkDude: Sustained passion isn't exactly a demerit. If it is, I am happily found guilt.
<troy_s> s/guilt/guilty.
<MarkDude> Ok I see where you are coming from
<troy_s> MarkDude: In contrast to say, once every six months of ZOMG and then not giving a rat's bottom about it.
<MarkDude> you are basically saying most people are full of crap
<troy_s> MarkDude: Because it will likely take a little more than that I'd hope.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Not at all. I tend to believe the Libre community has some of the brightest minds involved with it.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Passionate, diligent, and determined.
<troy_s> MarkDude: But the origins _may_ have an impact on why we are where we are. I also don't subscribe to the idea that we can simply keep forging along using the same techniques. Which I suppose is difficult, as those very techniques brought a pretty good deal of success in some capacities.
<MarkDude> artwise tho
<troy_s> MarkDude: Different set of tools. Different set of weapons. Including the ability to care about art and design and all of that messy complexity for longer than say, two minutes per year.
<MarkDude> So the deeper issue would be whether FOSS aims to be on its own on an island- or whether to have some of the mainland join
<troy_s> MarkDude: Maybe even more complicated?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Was the DIY movement not an isolated movement at one point?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Surrealists?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Etc.
<troy_s> MarkDude: "Mainland" I'm not so certain of.
<MarkDude> Yes, and then the hipsters of the time said it was over once the public enjoyed it also
<troy_s> MarkDude: Well it certainly had a voice. It had a passion.
<troy_s> MarkDude: And yet, for all of the ripe fruit to be had in Libre software, our art and design has zero voice.
<MarkDude> Like that band that is cooler when *less* folks like it?
<troy_s> MarkDude: Rather interesting.
<troy_s> MarkDude: No. I _do_ perceive an issue with our cultural value of art and design.
<troy_s> MarkDude: Not a "Just you wait" attitude.
<MarkDude> So is Art for the masses or just a few?
<troy_s> MarkDude: If we had _art_. ;)
<MarkDude> where is that line drawn
<MarkDude> ?
<troy_s> MarkDude: But again, much like your original answers... 'concept' for example.
<troy_s> MarkDude: There is no voice. Certainly _not_ the voice that we should likely be using.
<troy_s> MarkDude: The idea of Free software is at least as powerful as those that propelled entire art movements of the past.
<troy_s> MarkDude: And yet, _no_ where do we actually see it.
<troy_s> MarkDude: In fact, the complete opposite happens. Instead of imbuing work with the voice, we struggle to appease everyone.
<troy_s> MarkDude: And in doing so, we effectively create a cake with everyone's favourite ingredients or worrying about everyone's allergies.
<troy_s> MarkDude: (Note the obviously inherent fallacy of 'everyone's favourite ingredients' - it's a Utopian myth. More close to perhaps avoiding everyone's allergies. That would amount to a cake made out of rice maybe?)
<troy_s> (And even then... I am quite sure someone somewhere is allergic to rice.)
<troy_s> MarkDude: Fair?
<MarkDude> yes
 * darkmatter nods in approval of that analogy 
 * MarkDude concedes
<MarkDude> You effin rock troy_s
<troy_s> MarkDude: Well that makes one person that thinks so. ;)
<darkmatter> oh. my. word. brasero just asked me the same question _twice_ with slightly different wording
<troy_s> MarkDude: Sadly though... If it were about me 'rocking' it might be easier to tackle (ok well... not) than the real issues. The deep rooted cultural ones. I suppose it is _positive_ that people appear to care more now.
<darkmatter> and now a third time. lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: Maybe you aren't _really_ _really_ sure.
<darkmatter> troy_s: indeed. like. I change my mind more often than. oh, wait, i never change my mind...
<darkmatter> reminds me of windows xp...
<darkmatter> oh. my. I think it's going to ask me for each and every file: how about "I don't give a rats ass about windows compatibility. burn the fscking backup now" as a button option
<hv> are both "Radiance
<hv> oops!
<hv> are both "Radiance" and "Ambiance" designed to be light-themes?
<darkmatter> vish: I have thenm in that dir for ease of reference. they go in <theme>/<size>/status> per usual
<darkmatter> oof course with humanity the sixe and status are reversed :P
<vish> hehe!
<darkmatter> vish: setup was painless except for the typo in my xorg overrides. thank teh powers that be for chroot!
<vish> darkmatter: cool! i'm actually planning on re-installing too.. gonna download the maverick beta and use a btrfs /home ;)
<darkmatter> hehe
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-03
<DanaG> Hmm, this new 1-pixel border on Maverick is damn near impossible to grab.  You ever try hitting something 0.1728mm wide?
<DanaG> That's literally how wide it is on my screen.
<DanaG> (And frankly, the new wallpaper looks like somebody spilled baby food (to use a less gross analogy) on the Lucid wallpaper.
<DanaG> oops, mismatched my parentheses.
<doctormo> DanaG: Did you see my blog entry today?
<DanaG> Not sure... which blog is it?
<DanaG> Correction: it's 1px everywhere except at the corners, where there's a 2px by 2px block.
<DanaG> Thankfully, I know to alt+middledrag.
<DanaG> Does GTK let you use "em" or "points" or other such relative measurements?
<DanaG> ah, the canonical design one?
<vish> DanaG: bug 160311
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity (Ubuntu) (and 5 other projects) "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult (affects: 216) (dups: 5) (heat: 1088)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
<doctormo> DanaG: http://doctormo.org/2010/09/03/random-genetic-wallpaper/
<DanaG> Nifty idea, those random variations... but needs some nicer source to work with (not just splotches).  Or rather, even "splotches" would look nicer than the faded blobs.
<DanaG> Something like this would be nice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ajsOZ0dtxo
<DanaG> Snapshots of random shapes.
<DanaG> But with less-harsh colors.
<doctormo> DanaG: Do you have any experience with svg?
<DanaG> Not really.
<DanaG> er, rather, not at all.
<doctormo> DanaG: What you've shown me is easy enough to do and if there was money in making it (or if it was my job) I'd love to make it happen.
<DanaG> I'll bet if you link there on the blog post, somebody could implement it.
<DanaG> The thing also lets you use squares and question-marks and such.
<vish> DanaG: i guess you dont really know the famous doctormo :)
<DanaG> Not really.
<DanaG> I just posted a comment on the Canonical one.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-04
<kklimonda> doctormo: you have written svg xml by hand? seriously? you speak XML? ;)
<doctormo> kklimonda: Well inkscape did the grunt work or making the base, I rewrote the xml to include the clones and pointers.
<darkmatter> hmmm... empathy is actually kinda nice. just wish it didn't leave a channel when you close a window
<doctormo> darkmatter: I use a proxy to make sure I'm signed in all the time.
<darkmatter> doctormo: that was a crash. I keep forgetting, do not use the messaging menu to access pidgin chats. :P
<darkmatter> it opens all chats in tabs instead of the relavent one and when you try to close the window (or the other tabs), it explodes xD
<darkmatter> doctormo: and the previous disconnects were force of habit. was test driving empathy, and I'm accustomed to persistent channel status (as in, closing windows doesn't leave a chat)
<darkmatter> two little issues in empathy preventing me from dropping pidgin
<salty-horse> hey. can I get someone from the team to comment on this bug? :) -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/553393
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 553393 in human-theme (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Checkboxes and radiobuttons almost invisible using Human themes (affects: 16) (dups: 1) (heat: 114)" [Low,Triaged]
<vish> salty-horse: comment about what? its already been mentioned what each theme needs to add there .. :)
<vish> and human theme is no longer in the default install..
<salty-horse> vish, does that mean it's no longer maintained?
<salty-horse> there's already a patch available. I thought a reviewer could look at it and maybe release a new version of the package
<vish> salty-horse: regarding which theme?
<salty-horse> the "Human" them
<salty-horse> e
<vish> salty-horse: well, any update will be only in maverick , and for Lucid its an SRU which is not as easy to get done.... noone is using human theme since the new themes landed..
<salty-horse> 1) I'm ok with it being in maverick. I just want it to get fixed. 2) I use it (I actually forked it because it troubled me)
<vish> salty-horse: you must be among the rare few.. :)  i can add it to the human theme for maveric
<vish> k
<salty-horse> are you suggesting there's no reason to fix it beacuse it's not the official default theme? :)
<vish> salty-horse: not no reason , people just ended up having to fry bigger fish ;)
<salty-horse> I have my own gripes with the new default theme. for one, the buttons aren't designed to be on the right side, where I like them (I can change that, but it looks bad), and there's no window icon (Human doesn't have an icon as well)
<salty-horse> anyway, I'll appreciate a fix to the human theme(s) :)
<vish> salty-horse: yeah , the issue is i can the change theme.. but i need to poke another person to upload it into Ubuntu :)
<salty-horse> what do you mean? where does your change go, if not to ubuntu?
<vish> salty-horse: i can change the upstream Human theme.. :)
<salty-horse> the debian package?
<vish> hmm.. probably easier for me to do everything ;p
<vish> salty-horse: i'll upload the change , can you request someone in #ubuntu-motu to update the Ubuntu version , once I'm done?
<salty-horse> I still don't understand where upstream is
<vish> salty-horse: nevermind.. i'll look into it :)
<salty-horse> thanks! :)
<troy_s> vish: How goes your Blendering?
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-08-30
<neurochrome> Hello ubuntu artwork ppl
<neurochrome> Every release cycle I see a request for submissions for community wallpapers... and every release I see the continued reliance on flickr
<neurochrome> I have submitted to the brainstorm site a request to move away from such a service
<neurochrome> http://www.reddit.com/tb/inj9n
<neurochrome> and reddit! ;)
<neurochrome> It has since been closed on brainstorm by Cheesehead - who suggest I address this issue directly to the artwork team
<neurochrome> please, please, please, consider the fact that some TRUE die-hard FLOSS fans don't want a yahoo account. I want to take part in the wallpaper contest every time, but refuse to open a yahoo account purely to submit some pictures for inclusion.
<neurochrome> There are many canonical sites that could be used instead. We can use our universal launchpad logins, we can use gallery software provided in the Ubuntu repos... etc
<neurochrome> why are we relying on a 3rd party (who has a huge pact with Microsoft of all people)
<neurochrome> I sure hope someone sees this in the logs and actually takes this onboard
 * neurochrome ?
<neurochrome> yes
<thorwil> ooh, want: http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/30/wacom-inkling/
<thorwil> hey troy_s, you latest blog post made me imagine giger-style na'vi
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-08-31
<darkmatter> 'ello coz_ o/
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guys sorry for dealy
<coz_> delay
<darkmatter> coz_: np. just collecting files from aminet. gonna install amiga in emu today. trying 3.9, wanna be prepared. it takes about 4x longer than 3.1.
<coz_> yikes
<darkmatter> coz_: gonna set up a new user with the OS as the shell. user name "Flashback" with a boingball for an avatar :D
<coz_> :)
 * darkmatter misses the classics. and running a full OS as a session is easier than emulating individual roms
<coz_> darkmatter,  getting naustalgic >?
<darkmatter> since I gets all the drivers and stuff, so only need one config
<darkmatter> coz_: a bit :P
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I think I understand,, it's from getting old I think :)
<darkmatter> coz_: yes, it is. that plus, some of the art programs from the amiga _still_ don't have challengers :(
<coz_> oh!
<darkmatter> so ro use them. need amiga emulation. that or have 15 dozen individual configs to swap and troubleshoot in the emu if running the roms without workbench
<darkmatter> easier to just emulate the whole darn OS
<darkmatter> coz_: plus, I always loved the amiga
<coz_> darkmatter,  too long ago for me for sure,, I barely remember original mac os and win 95 :)
<darkmatter> coz_: aside from unix boxes, I grew up on PETs and SuprPETs --->
<darkmatter> so was a commodore child :P
<darkmatter> unix teenie'
<coz_> ah ok  :)  understandable then
<darkmatter> I remember when the old PET was state of the art, shiny and new. now we have calculators with 12x the horsepower. lol
<coz_> :)  yeah it is a bit scary when y ou think back  especially pricing
<darkmatter> coz_: floppies were an extra! :D
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  and now they nearly dont exist :)
<darkmatter> I know :(
<coz_> I still have windows 3.1  or 3.2 on floppies never used
<coz_> but i no longe have a floppy drive
<darkmatter> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Commodore_4032.jpg <-- I remember using those
<coz_> darkmatter,   yikes
<coz_> they look cook though :)
<coz_> cool
<coz_> damn fingers and new keyboard
<darkmatter> coz_: but my nostalgia is practical too. remember many, many, many moons ago about my project? a modern, not retro, full bling enviro that takes cues from amiga and beos (in terms od "epic workflow get stuff done without banging head" methodology)?
<coz_> yep :)
<darkmatter> coz_: "can't remember what you lied about it if you don't run it"
<darkmatter> liked*
<coz_> yeah I dont remember much ,, I wasnt  into computers until later ,, mostly work and not enough money,,, I can remember friends w ho purchased a "word processor"  for many hundreds of dollars and were are snotty about it,,,  I wasnt impressed,,,  I thought a typewroter was more efficient back then :)
<darkmatter> coz_: not that modern environments are bad, but they sacrifice workflow a bit, imo
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I understand ,, as always,, what you mean,,, lately I have gotten tired of the new interfaces,, and somewhat disalussioned with linux in general because of them
<darkmatter> coz_: I never owned the old ones, but as resident techy as a kid (new more than the actual hobbiests that taught me), had special priledges
<coz_> :)
 * darkmatter had access to key for puter lab :D
<coz_> excellent :)
<darkmatter> coz_: was an honor, considering how much the hardware was worth in the earlier 80's
<coz_> darkmatter,  that's for sure :)  I remember some of the prices,, way out of my range then
<darkmatter> other kids were outside playing, I was in lab programming xD
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I unfortuantely was working,, no childhood :)
<darkmatter> coz_: I _do_ want some oldies now though. if just for museum purposes.
<coz_> darkmatter,  the oldest computer I have here is the apple  SE/30
<darkmatter> like, next cube, bebox, amigas... just need to find crap in my price range
<darkmatter> coz_: I liked the appleII/GS
<coz_> darkmatter,  beboxes seem hard to find
<darkmatter> was a nice machine in its day
<coz_> darkmatter,  my nephew has an actual bebox but he wont part with it
<darkmatter> ooooh... blackmail!
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  he also has the corporate edition of BeOS  5  with java  on it
<darkmatter> oooh
<coz_> darkmatter,  but have I been alowed to borrow it?  no  of course not,, damn relatives
<darkmatter> hehe
<coz_> darkmatter,  I have asked him to let me install it on my one be machine,, for oh maybe 8 years now
 * darkmatter is munching on strawberries,raspberry, black ad blueberries 
<coz_> yummmm
<darkmatter> coz_: $5 for half a kilo :/
<coz_> yikes  everything is geting expensive:(
<darkmatter> uless it's frozen. you need an arm and a leg for anything fresh
<coz_> darkmatter,  I know,, it's getting bad everywhere  except I hear in Brazil
<darkmatter> 2 - 3 grade a chicken breasts are close to $20 fresh. I remember a few years ago when a tray FULL was about $8
<coz_> darkmatter, $20?  where are you shopping?   oh!!!   "fresh"   know I get it
<darkmatter> coz_: and the price hikes are nonsense, imo, since half the product goes to waste. I mean, I' pretty sure the first world throws away half of what it produces before it ever reaches the consumer
<coz_> darkmatter,  probably,, there is waist in harvesting,, shipping,, and server  so maybe 1/3 is lost to waiste
<darkmatter> coz_: I worded in food instustry a bit (like subway and such), had friend in bakerys and the like. we used to compare the experience in regards to waste. sad really just how much get tossed
<darkmatter> especially baked goods
<darkmatter> day old and hasn't been purchased? dumpster
<coz_> darkmatter,  absolutely and we pay for that at some point
<darkmatter> coz_: one friend worked at robins donuts when I used to volunteer with urban youth when in uni. she told he "go out back around 2:00am, and you'll have plenty for the center" (paraphrasing). sure enough, 2 - 3 flour sacks full of pastries
<darkmatter> I mean, seriously
<coz_> darkmatter,  that many?
<coz_> yikes
<coz_> US is piggy
<darkmatter> at the end of the day day olds get tossed
<darkmatter> canada piggy too. I mean. it's a "city" give that stuff to a shelter or foodbank or soup kitchen or someting
<coz_> darkmatter,  well they should sell them at half price
<darkmatter> there's tons of volunteer sevices that can benifit from that
<coz_> that's for sure,,, people are greedy and selfish
<darkmatter> coz_: btw. here's a site you may appreciate http://www.pixeljoint.com/
<coz_> looking
<darkmatter> http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/17123.htm
<darkmatter> http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/13455.htm
<darkmatter> two nice examples. some fine, and oldschool pixel painting
<coz_> yeah not tooo bad,,,  interesting work,,,,boy,, you are getting nostalgic :)
<darkmatter> http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/59600.htm
<darkmatter> coz_: well.. the pixel art was for something else. I was thinking of how to make a game (as in modern/3d) have atmosphere. as in, feel less smooth an unimpressive visually. have moe artistic impressionistic/surreal "this game is like a living painting" feel. so went through old links a few days ago. stumbled on this site for the first time in years
<coz_> darkmatter,  there is a neat game named   world of goo   that is not much like any other with graphics
<coz_> put out by  2D boy
<darkmatter> coz_: yes. goo is gooey :D
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> machinarium too.
<coz_> I have  both,,, machinarium is reminicent of  riven
<coz_> ok I am really tired ,, I am going to bed early ,, talk later darkmatter
<darkmatter> but 2D. I'm talking full 3D polygonal nommies. like. imagine fully rendered 3D gfx. animated skies ala van gogh. 2d nebulous cloud overlays, etc. really impressionistic and stylized lanscapes. maybe a bit of watercolor looking
