#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-27
* ed1t offers kbrooks a beer
* kbrooks says thanks to ed1t 
* kbrooks drinks it all
<ed1t> u want hotdog?
<ed1t> :P
<kbrooks> no
<kbrooks> u want anything?
<kbrooks> :P
<ed1t> yea...ill take a bottle of vodka
<ed1t> or a champagne
* kbrooks gets vodka and champagne and puts them on the table
<ed1t> woohoo!! lets party!
<kbrooks> lol
<kbrooks> ed1t: um.......
<kbrooks> it's a waste of our resources to be here before the meeting
<ed1t> heh got like 7 hrs before the meeting
<ed1t> lol
<ed1t> k lets party somewhere else
<kbrooks> k
<rob^> TechBoard is it?
<kbrooks> rob^: no. the nun
<kbrooks> rob^: today
<ed1t> ^^ topic
<rob^> ah k
<rob^> yeah, misread the topic
<ed1t> u better be there at the meeting! :P
<ed1t> lol j/k
<rob^> umm why?
<kbrooks> ed1t: i'll be, as i have to ;)
<kbrooks> or else
<ed1t> i might be here now
<ed1t> i mean at the meeting
<kbrooks> k
<kbrooks> i'm /list'ing
<kbrooks> :P
<kbrooks> just done.
<kbrooks> anyway.....
<ed1t> cya all later at the meeting
<ed1t> lol
<kbrooks> ed1t: /part
<ed1t> yo yo yo
<Mez> hey, sorry I'm late
<Mez> anything I've missed/
<kbrooks> ed1t: 20 mins
<ed1t> yep1
<Mez> oh, it's in 20 mins
<ed1t> yea
<hybrid_goth> Mez: heh
<Mez> thought I was late then
<Mez> whew :d
<ed1t> hehe
<kbrooks> ed1t and me live in the same zone
* Mez goes and gets the red bull and waits for his 500 new emails to download
<kbrooks> anyway
<Mez> you go away for one night, and look what happens
<ed1t> get me a beer too
<Mez> Seveas, you here?
<Seveas> of course
<Mez> good good :D
<kbrooks> same timezone
<kbrooks> ed1t: no :P
* hybrid_goth makes more gatorade
<ed1t> bah
<Seveas> but the meeting is in 18 minutes, let's not fill up the logs with nonsense...
<ed1t> kbrooks, its hottt outside
<Mez> Burgundavia, you heere?
<kbrooks> edit! 
* ed1t sits next to hybrid_goth 
<hybrid_goth> i must agree with Seveas
* kbrooks sits next to ed1t 
<Burgundavia> Mez, indeed
<Mez> Good, just checking your here to talk to
<kbrooks> ok lets stop the offtopic talk
<kbrooks> please
* hybrid_goth looks for nalioth
<kbrooks> Seveas: i have no patience. ty for that reminder. :/
* kbrooks shuts up
* hybrid_goth sits by nalioth
<ed1t> oy!
<ed1t> no more beer for u!
<kbrooks> 1 minute!
<Seveas> OK everybody, NUN meeting starts soon, let's make this an orderly meeting
<Seveas> The agenda is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda
<kbrooks> ok
<Seveas> Please stick to the agenda and do not go offtopic
<Seveas> Mez will lead the meeting, since he is the formal leader of the NuN
<Mez> Ok guys and welcome,
<kbrooks> ok
<Mez> this is gonna be a bit... different seeing as I've not chaired a meeting before, so please, be patient
<Seveas> :)
* hybrid_goth supports Mez
<Mez> First of all, I'd just like to awknowledge Burgundavia, who's here to represent the Doc Team, I do believe
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Seveas> welcome
<Mez> Please, remember to give everyone here the same amount of respect as you would give anyone else, as everyone is entitled to their own opinions
<bddebian> Hey folks
<Mez> also, I'd like to apologise in advance for my poor typing... It's been a long day
<Mez> For the record, can everyone please state their nameS?
<thechitowncubs> Hello
* nalioth is Marek Spruell
* Mez is Martin Meredith
* Seveas = Dennis Kaarsemaker
<kbrooks> Kyle Brooks
* thechitowncubs is John Lambrechts
* tritium is Michael Rimbert
* ed1t is Dipen Javia
* Burgundavia is Corey burger
* bddebian is Barry deFreese
<Seveas> too bad so few people showed up :(
* highvoltage is Jonathan Carter
<Mez> ok, the agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda so, if you'd all like to load it up, we can start
<Mez> or have I missed something Seveas ?
<hybrid_goth> sorry all
<Seveas> Mez, you're right on track :)
<Seveas> hybrid_goth, please state your name for the record
<hybrid_goth> hybrid_goth Kevin Gailey
<Mez> Ok, well, first item on the agenda is to let you know a little about us all, and what NUN is,
<Mez> NUN is the New User Network, which was an idea that was hashed about in a meeting where nalioth was trying to become a member
<Seveas> NUN is also an idea that sabdfl has had for a while
<Seveas> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AbsoluteBeginnerCommunity 
<Mez> Basically, the idea behind the NUN is to provide more a more focused support group for Newcomers to both Linux and Ubuntu
<Mez> Our main goals are to have a group of people who abide by a set of guidelines, and provide a certain amount of support (in hours) to users via IRC, the mailing lists and the forums.
<Mez> Although that is our main goal, we've also got a couple of projects on the back burner, and still in the thought process.
<Mez> For Example, the New User Guide and IRC-based Tutorials.
<Seveas> Active recruiting of 'helpers' has been done recently which has resulted in this meeting to kick off the team
<Mez> Nalioth and I came together after that initial Community Council meeting, and put our heads together and started work on the "Ubuntu Newbie Project" which was later renamed to tthe "New User Network"
<Mez> As Seveas said, sine then we've been recruiting people to help us with the support, and to become "Mentors" for the New User Network.
<Mez> Seveas then showed some interest, and we asked him if he's like to be a "consultant" to us, which he agreed to and has provided us with a lto of useful information, and guidance.
<Mez> So, that's the basic history behind how it got started up, and here we are today in the first meeting.
<Mez> Are there any questions so far
<highvoltage> Where do we sign up :)
<thechitowncubs> How are general users going to know about and find out how to ask for support?
<Seveas> highvoltage, on launchpad, the unp group
<nalioth> thechitowncubs: thats later on the agenda
<mgalvin> back, sorry
* mgalvin Matt Galvin
<thechitowncubs> 10-4
<Seveas> thechitowncubs, that's the work of the mentors: users simply go to the forums/irc and that's where the Mentors hang out
<Mez> thechitowncubs, hopefully people will advocate the new User network and we'll have info passed on by word of mouth.
<thechitowncubs> simple enough, alright
<Seveas> Mez, on that topic: i've been poking forum moderators
<hybrid_goth> Mez: so we are rellying on word of mouth to spread NUN?
<Seveas> hybrid_goth, up to now: yes
<tritium> Mez, i added it to the topic some days ago
<kbrooks> Anyway, this is later on the agenda.
<Mez> hybrid_goth, we don't need to "spread it" neccesarily.
<hybrid_goth> Mez: PLEASE EXPLAIN
<hybrid_goth> sorry for the caps
<Seveas> Mez, it'll come later. stick to the agenda please
<Mez> hybrid_goth, the aim is to provide support, nothing else, as long as we're providing good support, we're working well
<hybrid_goth> Mez: ok ty
<Seveas> let's move on to item 2: the NewUserGuide. I think it's also a good point to get input from the docteam here since they are working on a similar project
<Mez> Seveas, let me speak first,
<Seveas> sry
<Mez> Ok, the New User Guide.#
<Mez> There's been a lot of controversy between NUN and the Doc Team ove rthe New User Guide,
<Mez> (as I'm sure Burgundavia will agree)
<Burgundavia> yes
<Mez> as, they believe that we're working against them
<Burgundavia> not really, just in parallel
<Seveas> Burgundavia, but the docteams work unfortunately is not easily accessible yet, the wiki is...
<Mez> The aim of the New User Guide is NOT to work against anyone, in fact, we don't want to work against anyone at all with the New User Network
<Burgundavia> yes, but the wiki docs are also our baliwick, even if we have been neglecting them until recently
<Mez> Some people (names shall not be mentioned) have been creating new pages on the Wiki SPECIFICALLY for the NewUserguide.
<Mez> This is even though there is currently already better documentation on the wiki, which is freely and publically available
<mdke> hi all
<kbrooks> mdke: State your name for the record.
<Mez> The aim of the New User Guide is only to create a condensed index of information relevant to New Users.
<thechitowncubs> As the wiki team develops i believe that conflicts will iron themselves out when the group matures and learns to work together.
<mdke> my name is Matthew East
<hybrid_goth> why dont we do like other Open Source projects and just give back findings each team gets and both teams publish it their way?
<Mez> Can I finsih speaking first please?
<hybrid_goth> srry
<Mez> I don't want people working on New stuff for the wiki unless there's no information in the wiki regarding it. Things can be done a lot easier, more efficiently and better if we work on improving the current documentation in the wiki, and working WITH the doc team to do this.
<thechitowncubs> Mez: im not sure anyone disagrees with you
<Mez> For example, IIRC someone from the NUN Mentors did some work adding screenshots to the AddingRepositories Section of the Wiki, which made a great improvement on it, and yet, a new page was created which had less information on it, and was linked into the NUG
<Mez> this is counterProductive, and shoudn't be happening.
<kbrooks> Mez: I agree.
<Mez> When I first spoke about the NUG, I went and asked the Doc team their opinions on it, and asked if they'd be willing to help
<Mez> I beleive it was mgalvin I spoke to, who agreed with me that if it was done in a way where the NUN and the docteam were working together, then the docteam would be ahppy with this. and I've tried my best to keep to that,
<Mez> the reason why I talk about it now is so that everyone knows the score about what should be happening with the NUG, and so everyone keeps on track (I will also be adding this to the NUNGUidelines)
<Mez> There's a bit of a discussion going on between NUN and the Docteam at the moment about whether the NUG should be integrated as part of the main contents for the Wiki Documentation, where I believe that it shouldn't, as I beleive it provides a better service to have it seperate so that New Users aren't swamped with information they dont need
<Mez> I believe that Burgundavia will now explain the opposite side of the argument, if you're still here?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> basically, the first I saw of the NUN stuff was this extra pages that we being added
<Burgundavia> which was bad, to say the least
<Burgundavia> fast forward to now
<Burgundavia> basically, the doc team has neglected the wiki and that is now changing
<Burgundavia> we have all kinds of new people coming on board, like thechitowncubs 
<Burgundavia> what we would like to see is the following division of labour:
<Mez> brb
<Burgundavia> the NUN people tell us what is wrong with the wiki
<Mez> spilt vodka over myself
<thechitowncubs> lmao
<Burgundavia> and doc team fixes it
<hybrid_goth> haha
<Burgundavia> if you want to help work on the wiki, you are basically part of the docteam, which would be great
<mdke> i would like to support Burgundavia on this
<Mez> As would I.
<mdke> he speaks for the whole of the docteam
<Mez> as long as it doesnt mean killing the NUG page
<kbrooks> Me too. 
<Burgundavia> we will see what happens as we move forward
<mdke> Mez, that page applies also to irc and the forum afaics
<hybrid_goth> it would be great to have NUN members who are doc team memmbers
<mdke> Mez, no need to delete it
<mdke> hybrid_goth, agreed
<Burgundavia> my hope is that we can make the main doc page simple enough so that anybody can use it
<mdke> me too
<Mez> hybrid_goth, I agree, though I dont think it should be a prequisite.
<Burgundavia> and thus make the NUN stuff redundant
<hybrid_goth> this would help greatly in comunication
<kbrooks> Agreed.
<kbrooks> Mez: It isn't.
<Burgundavia> so, if you are writing on the wiki as a doc team member, then the key thing to remember is best practices
<Burgundavia> things like GUI over CLI
<Mez> Burgundavia, I agree in part, but I think that the NUG should stay as it's just an index, as I said, lets wait a while and see how it works :D
<Burgundavia> promoting existing solutions over new ones
<Burgundavia> thats about it
<Mez> Burgundavia, that's our whole  philosophy behind our support :D
<mdke> Mez, all pages are free to stay on the wiki
<Mez> can I ask who here from the NUN would be interested in joining the Doc team, and working with them
<mdke> BUT, its important that irrelevant pages aren't prominently linked, or that will cause confusion
<hybrid_goth> unless duplicates?
<Mez> (not as awhole, just as indivuals)
<Mez> mdke, of course :D
<kbrooks> Mez: Me.
* hybrid_goth maybe...
* Mez raises hand
<Burgundavia> those who wish to join, our channel is #ubuntu-doc
<Burgundavia> if you didn't already know
<kbrooks> Burgundavia: there now
<Mez> I would love those interested in hlping New Users by modifying the wiki to join the doc team, it means 1) we get a slight bit moer exposure, and 2) we integrate more.
<thechitowncubs> Right now the wiki is a bit intimidating for new users, but with additions of pages such as UserDocumentation it wil be alot easier for new users not familiar with wiki's to come to the wiki for support
<Mez> I'm all for working witht eh Doc team, and have been from the start.
<Burgundavia> in summary: If you have any questions or think you can help us, don't hesitate to swing by #ubuntu-doc
<mdke> yes
<mdke> feel free to come and find us
<Burgundavia> we need you guys, to make sure we are writing good docs
<Mez> any questions regardign to what we've been talking about (either regarding NUN or Doc Team)
<mdke> one important rule, if you are editing the wiki structurally, make sure you know how the software works
<hybrid_goth> lol
<thechitowncubs> the UserDocumentation page right now imo needs to be split into different levels, such as "Power Users" "Gamers?" "Absolute Beginners"
<Mez> No Questions?
<hybrid_goth> suggestion
<Mez> ok, next item I believe is your's nalioth
<nalioth> howdy y'all
<nalioth> most of what i wanted to bring up has been covered by Mez or Burgundavia 
<nalioth> but we are members of a Community, and the as the cliche goes, there is no "I" in team
<nalioth> there was some initial confusion re the wiki, but once it was brought to our attention, a different direction was suggested
<kbrooks> What's this direction?
<nalioth> so as not to duplicate, but augment existing information
<nalioth> and i see the NewUsersGuide page eventually being a "quick fix" with links to deeper information on existing wiki pages
<nalioth> i highly recommend we (who are interested in wiki working) join the docteam
<thechitowncubs> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/wikiteam
<thechitowncubs> or the wiki team specifically :)
<nalioth> Mez, the floor is yours, unless there's some questions for me?
<Mez> any questions
<Mez> ?
<bddebian> Sounds good
<kbrooks> None.
<thechitowncubs> What are your views of a Wiki Team within the doc team?
<hybrid_goth> umm ask the doc team?
<Mez> thechitowncubs, I dont see why there should be a division personally
<kbrooks> thechitowncubs: reundancy
<Mez> anyways,
<Mez> The Guidelines.
<mdke> thechitowncubs, we have one, but its not for writing docs, rather for looking after the wiki structurally
<Mez> I think we need to finalise them
<hybrid_goth> NUN Guidelines?
<Mez> can everyone have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines and tell me if there's anything that they don't agree with
<mdke> omg
<Mez> mdke, problem?
<mdke> there is a LP wiki team group
* mdke puts head in hands
* Mez hugs mdke 
* bddebian retains the right to use RTFM
<highvoltage> LP? Linkin Park?
* hybrid_goth pats mdke on the back
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, Launchpad
<hybrid_goth> bddebian: lol
<highvoltage> ah, thanks.
<kbrooks> "Do not direct someone to use google, this is unhelpful and decontructive" OK how is it deconstructive?
<Burgundavia> Mez, are not 1 and 2 better combined into one
<hybrid_goth> guidelines
<hybrid_goth> yes 1 = 2
<Mez> s/deconstructive/counter-productive
<hybrid_goth> 5 could go with 1 & 2 also
<nalioth> kbrooks: it is dismissive to send someone to google BEFORE trying to help them in channel
<Mez> changes
<highvoltage> should there perhaps be a page on how to use google?
<nalioth> we (nun) are diplomats for linux. we are most likely the first people some users are gonna see in their new linux world
<kbrooks> highvoltage: NO
<kbrooks> highvoltage: nalioth explains why
<highvoltage> for example, many new users feel comforted by knowing there's a google.com/linux.
<bddebian> nalioth: That's scary :-)
<highvoltage> ok
<hybrid_goth> bddebian heh
<hybrid_goth> highvoltage: no we are for linux not google
<Mez> anything else?
<bddebian> I would have to say that there is a fine line though between hand-holding and the proverbial "teaching a man to fish"
<Mez> any problems with them? or is everyone agreed regarding  the guidelines
<bddebian> Mez: Look fine
<Mez> only problem I can see is a: that should eba  ;
<highvoltage> i think the google line needs more explanation.
<nalioth> we also need to remember, with the free shipping and other efforts to get ubuntu out in the eyes (and computers) of the public is this: we are helping our grandmothers/young siblings
<Mez> highvoltage, hit refresh
<highvoltage> "we are for linux, not google" puts it well.
<highvoltage> Mez: ok.
<kbrooks> nalioth?
<kbrooks> nalioth: see #ubuntu
<hybrid_goth> Mez: guidelines looks good
<Mez> ok. Well I'm going to ask that before anyone be approved "proper" for NUN, that they sign the Guidelines and send me a copy via email to agree that they will follow them
<kbrooks> Mez: I read them, and I agree with them.
<nalioth> Mez means to sign with your gpg key
<kbrooks> Do I HAVE to sign the guidelines?
<mdke> later all
<Mez> kbrooks, if you wish to eb a member of the NUN Mentor group
<kbrooks> Mez: i am already one. but fine
<Mez> kbrooks, I've deactivatrd everyone till they sign
<Mez> and agree
<Mez> It's only fair
<kbrooks> uh.
* kbrooks curses at seahorses
<kbrooks> seahorse*
<Mez> lol
<Mez> anyways
<Mez> Any other business?
<tritium> Do you care to say anything more about NUN as it relates to IRC?
<Mez> how do you mean tritium ?
<kbrooks> next item:
<kbrooks> #
<kbrooks> #
<kbrooks> New users may need some guidance on how best to get answers for their problems, e.g. on how to ask questions on IRC ([WWW]  example IRC support guide) (JanClaeys)
<kbrooks> you missed that?
<Mez> JanC doesnt seem to be here
<kbrooks> ah ok
<bddebian> OK gents.  My apologies but I must go.
<Mez> no probs
<JanC> yes I am
<tritium> Mez, is there anything you want to coordinate with the ops in #ubuntu, for example.
<kbrooks> JanC: we didnt see you!
<Mez> tritium, I dont see anything that needs to be.
<bddebian> Yes you need more late-night (EST) ops
<Mez> JanC, I asked you to poke me.
<Mez> #ubuntu ops need to go through CC IIRC
<bddebian> Fair enough, just a suggestion
<Mez> JanC, take the floow
<Mez> floor
<tritium> A problem we have in #ubuntu is that users don't know where to look for New User Documentation.  I added the URL to the topic, but we frequently get the same old FAQs .
<hybrid_goth> tritium: i.e. root
<kbrooks> Yeah.
<Mez> tritium, that's something we'll deal with as the NUG grows, at the moment, it's still a Work in progress
<kbrooks> hybrid_goth: root?
<JanC> I haven't followed everything
<Mez> JanC, your item on the agenda, 
<JanC> but I just think people need help on how to ask help
<Mez> do you want to talk about it now?
<hybrid_goth> kbrooks: tell ya later
<tritium> kbrooks, he means the RootSudo wiki page.  Other examples: BinaryDriverHowto, Java
<JanC> I found that link on someone's blog
<JanC> he gives support on another channel I think
<Burgundavia> JanC, was that my blog? (I am Corey Burger
<Mez> JanC, while I think it might be a good addition to the wiki ?
<hybrid_goth> JanC: like ppl asking to ask a question
<JanC> hybrid_goth : that too
<JanC> or people not asking questions 
<Mez> I don't think it's a good idea to publicise it too much, becuase otherwsie it'll jsut get people in the mindframe of saying "follow the guidelines to aska quesiton" and then people will just not answer them and look down on them
<Mez> While I think they're a good idea, I dont think it's good to get people in that sort of mondframe, we don't want to tell people off or whatnot becaus ethye don't know how to aska quesiton, as it'll just put them off asking
<hybrid_goth> Mez: I  think he means guideline for more efficient answers
<JanC> Mez : I'm thinking about it more as a guideline about how you get betetr answers
<Mez> which is against what we want to do in the NUN
<Mez> oh, fair enough, then that's not really a problem :D
<JanC> it should be short & friendly
<JanC> :)
<Mez> JanC, draft something up, and poke me when it's ready?
<Mez> and we'll go over it then
<nalioth> the /topic in #ubuntu is getting large enough, should we have an /onjoin with other requisite info?
<kbrooks> nalioth: agreed
<tritium> not a bad idea, nalioth
<Mez> nalioth, again i think that's for CC
<Mez> Any other business?
<JanC> Mez : I'll look at the site I linked to & see if I can make it better (or friendlier ;-)
<Mez> JanC, as i said, get a draft and poke me and we'll look over then
<Mez> No Other business?
<Mez> Ok,
<Mez> same time in 2 weeks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Mez] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Fri Aug 5 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 2 Aug 20:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
* hybrid_goth claps for Mez
<Mez> JanC, I'll ask you for a report in next meeting?
* kbrooks claps for Mez
<JanC> k
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Burgundavia] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 2 Aug 20:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Fri Aug 5 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda
<Mez> ty Corey
<Burgundavia> np
* terrex se va a cenar // is going to dinner
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-28
<robitaille> what's the time of the next doc-team meeting?  /topic on ubuntu-meeting and the wiki are 8 hours apart
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  why register and identify?  your IRC nick is how people know you.  http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-29
* terrex is away: Alimentndome // I'm eating st
<Yann2> hi
<Yann2> i'm willing to create an Ubuntu-europe foundation... who should I discuss that with?
<ogra> Yann2, falscher channel :) versuchs mal in #ubuntu-devel
<Yann2> danke
<Yann2> woher weisste eigentlich dass ich deutsch spreche -_-
<ogra> --> Yann2 (~Yann2@p54A5CEEE.dip.t-dialin.net) hat #ubuntu-meeting betreten
<ogra> ;)
<Yann2> =)
<Yann2> (Another Item added to the CC Agenda - Hope this is ok)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-31
<dholbach> bonsoir messieurs dames
<Mez> bon soiree messeur holbach
<dholbach> Mez: comment allez-vous?
<Mez> J'ai .... fam
* jan1 grumbles, should have learnt spanish
<dholbach> jan1: we were trying to talk french :)
<jan1> I know mr owner-of-murphy :)
* Mez rit
<jan1> they took my real mick
<jan1> nick
<dholbach> jan1: who did?
<jan1> someone who is prolly also called jani
<jan1> ;)
<ogra> jan1, didnt register it ?
<jan1> ogra, I guess not :)
<ogra> you really should
<jan1> I am still an irc noob
<dholbach> seb128: WOOHOO! :)
<seb128> hey daniel
<seb128> TB today?
<dholbach> yeah
<madduck> the hall is filling up...
<dholbach> 22:00 our time
<Mez> TB in 30 mins :D
<Mez> w00t
<Mez> :P
<bddebian> Heya madduck
<madduck> hi
<JanC> t'aimes parler le franais de temps en temps, monsieur dholbach ?   :)
<dholbach> JanC: de temps en temps, mais il me faut apprendre plus :)
<madduck> bnt, c'est une distro franaise?
<madduck> mais alors, c'est riglo!
<JaneW> gooie naant almal
<JaneW> ek gaan gou koffie kry, voor die afskraak begin
<\sh> JaneW: thank u very much :)
<\sh> finally another coffee junky ,-)
<jan1> was that Dutch or Afrikaans?
<\sh> afrikaans
<JaneW> \sh lol
<jan1> they look pretty similiar from distance at least :)
<JaneW> \sh wasn;t sure if anyone would understand
<\sh> JaneW: I can understand a bit :)
<\sh> at least: koffie 
<\sh> lol
<\sh> ek = I
<JaneW> yes it is pretty similar to dutch, but with less funny characters I think 
<madduck> JaneW: if you know english and german, afrikaans can be read most of the times. at least the gist can be extracted most of the time.
<jan1> good night all, someone does soemthing with a coffe before the meeting begins? 
<bddebian> OH yeah smoke break, good idea :-) \sh care to join me.. ;-P
<JaneW> and visa versa and can figure out a lot of german (and norwegian) from knowing afrikaans
<madduck> s/visa/vice/ IIRC
<madduck> but yeah
<JaneW> sorry
<madduck> sorry? dude... :)
<JaneW> anyway since everyone else seems to speak other languages, I thought I'd give it a try - not that my afrikaans is very good anyway.
<madduck> where are you from?
<\sh> janew: there is a funny word..."mapumpaan" or something? My ex never told me how to write it ,-)
<JaneW> what?
<JaneW> meaning...
<JaneW> madduck: SA
* Nafallo introduces his girlfriend gothcat to the world ;-)
<madduck> JaneW: nice! i love your country!
<JaneW> hi gothcat
<\sh> actually something like "lovley idiot" I actually don't know..she never gave me the meaning...but every time I smashed a glas, "Look, you mampumpaan" or something like this
<JaneW> madduck: I think it's pretty cool too
<gothcat> JaneW: hi
<JaneW> not mampaara ?
<pitti> Hey madduck, how's it going
<madduck> pitti!
<\sh> JaneW: well...I wrote it like it sounds in german ,-) 
<\sh> JaneW: forget it ... totally OT :)
<madduck> pitti: i am ready to roll but things are holding me back. see mail. there are two other non-debian projects like that. but i'm good. vacation on friday!
<madduck> and i am reading this paper about a high-level cognitive architecture for robots and it's making me laugh.
<JaneW> 5 minutes
<\sh> g'evening sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi sh
<sistpoty> gna, i can't type your nick g
<\sh> sistpoty: i use xmodmap i know ;)
<Mez> \sh :D
<Mez> Tue Jul 26 20:00:18 UTC 2005
<mdz> good morning
<Mez> evening mdz
<mdz> Keybuk: will "the sab" be joining us today?
<Keybuk> bread roll sent ...
<Keybuk> I think so
<Mez> did you just throw a bread roll at him scorr?
<Mez> s/scorr/scott/
<Keybuk> pretty much
<pitti> did it work?
<Keybuk> not sure ...
<mdz> sistpoty: are you here?
<mdz> \sh: and you?
<\sh> yes
<sistpoty> yes
<\sh> I'm here
<mdz> excellent
<Mez> lol :D I like the cheek Keybuk 
<mdz> how about the MOTU candidates?      *
<mdz>       AnkurKotwal
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       RajasekarKarthik
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       Stefanpotyra
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       JorgeDaza
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       SebastianDroege
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       MartinMeredith
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       BarrydeFreese
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       ChristianBjlevik
<mdz> firefox cut and paste leaves something to be desired
<\sh> Unfrgiven was approved (AnkurKotwal)
<mdz> Mez: you're here
<dholbach> AnkurKotwal (unfrgiven) already IS a MOTU
<ogra> AnkurKotwal is already MOTU but didnt show up for some time
<Mez> yes, I'm here
<mdz> hmm, the page is out of date
<slomo> SebastianDroege  <--- that's me
<mdz> dholbach,ogra: please remove anyone who was already processed
<Nafallo> mdz: I'm here (ChristianBjlevik)
<bddebian> <-- Barry deFreese
* sistpoty is Stefanpotyra
<madduck> mdz: i was invited to join
<madduck> MartinKrafft
<Mez> <-- Martin Meredith
<sabdfl> hi all
<ogra> mdz, done
<dholbach> mdz: i'd have preferred if he had proudly removed himself from that list, but i'll caretake next time :)
<sabdfl> apologies for being late
<sabdfl> where are we on the agenda?
<mdz> madduck: you're on the "needs to show up again" list, which means you were on the list for a previous meeting but weren't present for consideration
<dholbach> sabdfl: we just started :)
<mdz> sabdfl: just sorting maintainer candidates
<sabdfl> thanks
<siretart> hi sabdfl 
<mdz> madduck: go ahead and move your name up to the top
<Mez> sabdfl, was the bread roll stale?
<bddebian> Hello sabdfl
<sabdfl> Mez: spectacularly
<Mez> :)
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<sabdfl> hey madduck, welcome
<mdz> ok, starting from the top then
<mdz> is RajasekarKarthik present?
* ogra has no idea who that is
<\sh> I didn't know him, honestly
<mdz> ok, -> needs to show up again
<Mez> karthik085
<madduck> sabdfl: thanks & hi
<Mez> who didnt show up to CC either
<mdz> Stefanpotyra
<mdz> #
<mdz> ?
<Mez> so isnt a member
<\sh> yeah..but I never saw him on motu
<ogra> Mez, i can read ;)
<sistpoty> Stefanpotyra is /me
<Mez> ogra - hit enter by msitake - was saying he;s not a meber
<mdz> sistpoty: welcome
<ogra> sistpoty, i havent seen many packages of you yet ...
<sistpoty> hadn't much time recently... will be better after thursday
<ogra> sistpoty, have you any more references ?
<sistpoty> (exams)
<ogra> ah
<sistpoty> no more than on the wiki page
<mdz> there's no rush; we can always consider you at a later date when you've had more time to devote to MOTU work
<sistpoty> no problem for me ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: thanks for working on ghc6
<sistpoty> you
<sistpoty> + re welcome
<ogra> sistpoty, yeah, and thatks for the revu work :)
<ogra> thanks even
<\sh> sistpoty is one of our revu guys...
<mdz> sistpoty: just add yourself to the agenda again when the time comes
<sistpoty> ok, i will do so
<sabdfl> sistpoty: welcome, it's good to have you here. it takes a little while to get everyone up to speed on your contribution, so make sure to keep a record of stuff you do, on your wiki page
<sistpoty> ok, and thanks
<mdz> next, JorgeDaza
<mdz> does anyone know Jorge's IRC nick?
<\sh> comadreja 
<slomo> comadreja
<mdz> comadreja: ping?
<ogra> mdz, i'd like to see him as motu
<ogra> he's comadrej, but his wife has her b-day oday
<ogra> comadreja even
<ogra> he aplologized before 
<\sh> comadreja was working with me on the merger list and did quite good work 
<sabdfl> siretart: nice icons for revu2 :-)
<ogra> his packaging skills improved a lot over the last weeks
<mdz> ogra: we can consider him in absentia if there are sufficient references
<dholbach> i only heard good stuff about about him (but was away from irc the last ... hum ... days)
<siretart> sabdfl: most planning work up to know was from sistpoty ;) - but thanks :)
<ogra> mdz, i'd like to hear something from \sh or siretart 
<mdz> who has been sponsoring his uploads?
* \sh was it 
<ogra> \sh, what do you think ? ready enough ?
* siretart sponsored mainly slomo
<\sh> most of the time..if there wasn't a debdiff applied I mentioned this in the changelog incl. bug entry
<ogra> \sh, but were the debdiffs you saw ok ?
<\sh> ogra: yes very good...no bugs
<ogra> oki... 
<Mez> brb.. loo
<siretart> I'm confident that he knows how to make packages, according to what I have seen from revu so far
<ogra> so there would be a +1 from me... 
<ogra> siretart, thats what i wanted to hear ;)
<sabdfl> seems good enough for MOTU and membership
<mdz> agreed
<Keybuk> agree
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> cool :)
<\sh> and another plus is: he is freelancer and has sometimes more time then I have :)
<madduck> freelancers don't have time. :)
<ogra> hehe
<sabdfl> i guess that's 3 out of 3 :-)
<siretart> which is near impossible ;)
<mdz> comadreja: welcome to the team
<ogra> yay... i'll mail him :)
<Mez> backl
<sabdfl> who will pass the news on?
<sabdfl> ok
<mdz> Mez is up next
<sabdfl> thanks ogra
<Mez> isnt slomo up next?
<mdz> Mez: you're right, my cursor was wrong
<Mez> :P
<mdz> slomo: are you here?
<siretart> he is for sure
<slomo> yes, i'm here
<bddebian> slomo gets my vote even though I don't get one :-)
<siretart> :)
<ogra> slomo... i guess there is consensus among MOTU for him
<siretart> he did really rocking work for MOTUMedia, and used revu quite a lot
<dholbach> he gets mine as well - i sponsored some uploads for him and he did excellent work on finding patches and he works nicely with the team,
<ogra> OR AM I WRONG ??
<mdz> bddebian: testimonials count, if you can elaborate a bit about your experience working with slomo
<ogra> :)
<\sh> yes..he's doing good work and fixes my bloody typos ,-)
<bddebian> mdz: Slomo has been very helpful/supportive of my efforts
<Mez> \sh - you missed out an eye again
<siretart> he did real rocking work in helping fellow MOTU's and MOTUs to be in #ubuntu-motu
<mdz> sounds like a ringing endorsement from MOTU
<ogra> absolutely
<ogra> he's done grat work
<ogra> great even
<Mez> slomo's helped out a lot with me aswell
<bddebian> Oh you beat me to it ogra :-)
<Mez> + he's a backporter - so even better :D
<JaneW> \sh: I need someone to do that for me ;)
<mdz> Keybuk,sabdfl: votes?
<Keybuk> ++
<sabdfl> slomo: can you say in one sentence where you'd like to take ubuntu? in the sense of how you'd like to enhance it and which areas you'd like to contribute to?
<\sh> JaneW: ask slomo, he's quite good in things like this :)
<slomo> sabdfl: i want to help wherever i can... mostly fixing bugs, packaging new stuff (mostly multimedia related) and so on... and i'm searching for new areas where i can be useful ;)
<sabdfl> ok. great endorsements from the MOTU, so +1 from me
<\sh> slomo said to me, he will cxx trans the ace package :)
<mdz> slomo: what specific areas of multimedia interest you, out of curiosity?
<slomo> \sh: psss ;) i'll try but i can't promise anything
<\sh> slomo: I will help you when I can :)
<sabdfl> slomo: great wiki page - makes it an easy +1 from me :-)
<slomo> mdz: mostly supporting new formats... currently i'm working on a gst-plugins-multiverse package which was started by tseng
<mdz> slomo: interesting, I'd like to hear more about it later
<mdz> +1 from me
<dholbach> SUPER! :)
<ogra> yay
<slomo> thanks everybody :)
<doko> slomo: you did some work on the bug tracking system, are you interested in this work?
<mdz> slomo: congratulations
<ogra> wlcome !
<\sh> slomo: welcome to the real world :) 
* Mez feels nervous
<siretart> slomo: welcome to the team! :)
* mdz shines the spotlight on Mez
<sabdfl> drumroll
<slomo> doko: what exactly do you mean?
* Mez shines a laser at mdz
<mdz> Mez has been spearheading the official backports project
<doko> slomo: let's delay that after the meeting
<Keybuk> ...Mez sucks at persuading people to get his key signed ;o)
* ogra thinks Mez should show us that he is capable to build empty packages ; 
<ogra> ;)
<slomo> doko: ok, fine with me :)
<Mez> Keybuk - just cause I dont have enough money to buy you a pint or 7,or enough to travel
<mdz> ogra: empty packages?
* Mez slaps ogra
<ogra> mdz, he wants to build a empty transition package
<siretart> Mez has done quite a bunch of packages in revu, they looked fine so far..
<pitti> Mez: you have to buy elmo a pint, not Keybuk :-)
<ogra> mdz, but didnt get it working today :)
<Mez> pitti, to get Keybuk to sign my key
<Riddell> Mez has updated the k3b package which was great (and is now doing k3b-i18n)
<Mez> ogra: yes, obviously, I've not made a blank package, but I'm working on it :D
<ogra> but to be honest i think he's already in a state to build good "non-empty" packages ;)
<sabdfl> Mez has been very active, we've corresponded a few times. can't comment on packaging but i do appreciate his input and ideas
<Mez> It's really confusing D:
<\sh> I had an "quick" overview about the packages of Mez in REVU..and they looked quite good...but sometimes he's asking too many stupid questions ;-)
<mdz> Mez: what sort of work have you done on kubuntu so far?
<\sh> mez is also doing quite good work with k3b
<Mez> \sh - that'd be cause I'm nervous so far
<\sh> I think riddell can say also some things about mez
<\sh> Riddell: ping?
<Mez> mdz: working on packaging k3b mainly, and I've packages konversation 0.18
<ogra> Mez, if you promise to ask twice for packages you cant cope with i'm fine with a +1 :)
<mdz> carpet guy is at the door, back in a moment
<Mez> ogra: I ask 3 times for packages I can lol - so thats nota problem
<\sh> Mez: u don't have too :) 
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> ogra: cope? coop?
<bddebian> cope
<Mez> oh, and kubuntu - I'm also helping the katapult project along
<sabdfl> mdz: send 'em home with carpet burns, i say
<Riddell> I support Mez's his maintainership
* Nafallo gets the dictd
<ogra> Nafallo, not cope -> coop rather ;)
* sabdfl hopes bubbles isn't listening
<Mez> \sh - I'm nbervous, I dont like getting things wrong and getting b***ched at for it :D
* siretart also supports Mez. He was very helpful in #ubuntu-motu and is a really quick learner
<Mez> I'd rather ask quesitons than act on intuition and get it wrong
<\sh> so +1 for Mez from me...
<siretart> and: he is available :)
<JaneW> Mez: good approach
<Mez> siretart, no, I have a gf :P
<siretart> ;)
<Mez> but I know what you mean
<Keybuk> hmm, that could be a substantial draw on Mez's time ... :)
<Nafallo> Mez: make your gf available to :-)
<bddebian> Keybuk: lol
<bddebian> Nafallo: That could be taken the wrong way.. ;-P
<Mez> Nafallo, I'm trying to persuade her to move to kubuntu - but she doesnt wanna have to lose all her movies :D
<\sh> JaneW: yes it is...
<Nafallo> bddebian: dooh! ;-)
<jasoncohen> I found dependency problems on konversation .18 and firefox 1.0.4 from backports-staging and Mez was on it almost immediately. he packaged and had a new konversation that same night (a dependency on kdelibs 3.4.1 prevented kubuntu-desktop from installing)
<ogra> bddebian, Nafallo did that too, meet her in -artwork ;)
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> ogra: gothcat is here ;-)
<ogra> hi gothcat :)
<Mez> but to be fair - my gf loves (k)ubuntu - and has done some artwork for it :D
<Mez> *Shrugs*
<jasoncohen> when where are problems Mez fixes them immediately
<gothcat> ogra: hi *waves*
<ogra> Mez, poke her to the artwork team ;)
<\sh> Mez: hug her :) love her :) don't give her away :) chain her with a ring ;)
<siretart> heh :)
<Mez> ogra :D will try
<Mez> and \sh - all in due time
<sabdfl> ok, mdz will be afk for a few minutes, i'll chair till he's back
<sabdfl> Mez: you get +1 from me. keybuk?
<Nafallo> \sh: give her to *ubuntu rather ;-)
<Keybuk> ++ also
* slomo also supports Mez, he helped me with some things, was really responsive and his stuff at revu looks fine for me ;)
<Mez> ty sabdfl, keybuk (I'll get you a pint at some point whe/if I'm in brum)
<madduck> that's post-bribery!
<sabdfl> ok, Mez, in mdz's absence I'm happy to go with keybuk's +1 and mine
<sabdfl> welcome aboard
<ogra> yay
<Keybuk> heh, that would involve _me_ being in Brum at some point! :-/
<ogra> hello MOTUMez
<dholbach> WOW! :)
* sabdfl was already typing before the bribery came through.. Brazil lag is great  :-)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> Mez: welcome :) Backport MOTU  SPOC :)
<bddebian> Mez: Congrats man :-)
<sabdfl> Keybuk: somehow i think you always land with your Brum in the butter
<comadreja> hello
<siretart> Mez: Welcome to the Team! :)
<Nafallo> Mez: yay! congrats :-).
<ogra> so it sems we have a MOTUBackports leader now :)
<slomo> congrats Mez :)
<Mez> Keybuk, yeah, thats what I though
<Mez> :D
<Nafallo> congrats comadreja :-)
<\sh> comadreja: congrats for becoming a MOTU dude :)
<comadreja> :D
<siretart> comadreja: You, too! Welcome in MOTU Land ;)
<slomo> and congrats comadreja :)
<bddebian> Yeah comadreja, congrats in absentia :-)
<comadreja> :D
<ogra> comadreja, i just mailed you :)
<sabdfl> bddebian: you're up!
<comadreja> thanks !!!
<bddebian> Uh oh
<sabdfl> comadreja: welcome :-)
<comadreja> I found an open wlan
<bddebian> comadreja: :-)
<comadreja> I'm sitting on the street :D
<ogra> hehe
<sabdfl> comadreja: look out for those black helicopters
<sabdfl> hey Amaranth
<madduck> bddebian: don't leave after this. we need to talk zope-*
<dholbach> ogra: did we ever have so many MOTUs in one night?
<ogra> enjoy the party and congrats to your wife for her b-day
<Nafallo> morning Amaranth :-)
<bddebian> madduck: We do?
<madduck> bddebian: we do.
<ogra> dholbach, nope :)
<bddebian> madduck: OK
<sabdfl> bddebian: how's NUN coming along?
<dholbach> ogra: it feels SOOO good :)
<ogra> yeah !!
<jasoncohen> congratulations Mez 
<Mez> sabdfl, nun's coming along well :D
<bddebian> sabdfl: Good but to be honest I have been slacking a little with NUN lately trying to help with MOTUTOMerg
<bddebian> +e
<ogra> wher you did a great job !
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> bddebian: where would you say you've been making your biggest contribution?
<sabdfl> and do you have an area you'd like to focus on going forward from a code + packaging point of view?
<\sh> bddebian helped us a lot with tagging merge bugs...
<ogra> we are down to less the 100 merges from 220 in 5 days ... 
<ogra> !!!!!
<\sh> ogra: under 100
<bddebian> I hope the merge issues but I haven't gotten a great deal of feedback except from \sh
<ogra> then even
<mdz> bddebian: I saw some uploads with your name on them; who has been sponsoring you?
<sabdfl> that's awesome bddebian - thanks!
<bddebian> sabdfl: Anywhere I can help to be honest
<Keybuk> ahh, so it's bddebian that's been filling my INBOX, is it? :)
<bddebian> mdz: No one, that is part of the reason I have come.
<bddebian> Keybuk: Probably, sorry
<ogra> Keybuk, yes
<ogra> heh
<sabdfl> bddebian: are you a gnome or kde type? or something lighter?
<Nafallo> Keybuk: install procmail dude ;-)
<mdz> bddebian: I don't follow; who has been uploading your packages for you?
<\sh> Keybuk: yes, with my name on it 
<Keybuk> Nafallo: I still read all the merge-o-matic traffic
<ogra> mdz, \sh mostly
<bddebian> mdz: \sh for the merge stuff, I don't think anyone has looked at my REVU stuff
<bddebian> sabdfl: I probably don't have the skillset for that yet
<mdz> \sh: what is your assessment of his packaging work?
<dholbach> bddebian: i hope we'll all cover some stuff on review day, 28th of july *hint hint*
<ogra> bddebian, would you prefer to wait 2 weeks ?
<mdz> \sh,bddebian: ah, so these were purely MOM output then?
<bddebian> dholbach: OK
<ogra> mdz, yep
<bddebian> mdz: Which?
<ogra> bddebian, the uploads
<\sh> mdz: yes..most of the time he tested the MOMs and tagged the bugs for me...so I could take it easily
<Amaranth> morning *late*
<ogra> Amaranth, we get used to it *g*
<bddebian> ogra: As with CC, I'm not expecting anything so if you all think I should wait, I am fine with that
<bddebian> Hello Amaranth
<\sh> mdz: after all, I'm lacking with reviewing...so someone else needs to talk about his new packages
<ogra> bddebian, i'd like to see some more stuff from you beyond MOM
<bddebian> Fair enough
<sabdfl> bddebian: you're making a big impression on the bug front, tagging etc, so your contribution is hugely appreciated
<bddebian> sabdfl: Thank you
<sabdfl> on the packaging front, maybe find a package that really interests you and jazz it up some
<Amaranth> isn't bddebian the weirdo behind the Debian GNU/Hurd stuff?
<ogra> bddebian, but i'm sure youre good to go in  weeks.... you'll get my vote, just go on as you do ;)
<bddebian> ogra: Have some suggestions
<ogra> s/weeks/2 weeks
<bddebian> Amaranth: Yep :-)
<\sh> bddebian: We need you...you and your jokes :) and you and your knowledge..let's do some realwork and don't tell yourself, u r a noob, you are not
<sabdfl> once the motu are more familiar with your approach, come back
<madduck> bddebian: pkg-zope will have enough (!) grounds for you to profile yourself, if you are interested!
<Keybuk> I think bddebian's making some great contributions, but I'd like to see a bit more packaging from him first
<dholbach> bddebian: exactly what stephan said - it's always funny with you - you'll enhance the MOTU team in a great way :)
<\sh> Keybuk: sorry for spamming your inbox btw ,-)
<sabdfl> Nafallo: around?
<Nafallo> sabdfl: here :-)
<Keybuk> \sh: hey, it's no problem ;)  rather I saw more than less when it comes to merge traffic and -changes :p
<siretart> absolutly. and now, as we have more MOTU's reviewing should go more quickly ;)
<sabdfl> Nafallo: got your pitch ready to roll? :-)
<ogra> Nafallo  is a +1 from me in advance 
<sabdfl> ogra: care to elaborate?
<slomo> siretart:  and i'll do some reviewing this night ;)
<sabdfl> there's not much detail on it might be worth finding a specific 
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianBj%c3%a4levik
<sabdfl> sorry
<ogra> he's around since a looong time, helped a lot with the MOTU already ...
<Nafallo> well, I've been around helping out and mostly applied patches here and there :-)
<Nafallo> I've one of those trying to backport stuff for UniverseSecurity.
<bddebian> OK, gents thanks.  SOrry for spacing there for a sec
<pitti> Nafallo: would you like to get more involved in universe security?
<dholbach> bddebian: what are you sorry-ing for? :)
<bddebian> dholbach: Delayed reaction :-)
<pitti> Nafallo: astharot hasn't been around recently, he has some RL issues
<Nafallo> pitti: at some point.
<Nafallo> pitti: I want to get back on that horse, but right now I feel like I should do some other packaging to :-)
<pitti> Nafallo: right, no objection to that :-)
<sabdfl> ok. Nafallo - it would help us for this if there was more of a list of packages you've touched on your wiki page
<sabdfl> if ogra and the motu are ++ for you, then that's the ticket, but it helps to have some specifics on your wiki page so the TB have a bit of context
* ogra considers Nafallo to be very carful with packaging and a good teamworker
<sabdfl> thats a good vote of confidence
<\sh> I thought nafallo is motu already..
<ogra> heh
<sabdfl> anybody else on the MOTU worked with Nafallo?
<Nafallo> sabdfl: I know. I did that page for CC, but I haven't got a history on my harddrive anymore ;-)
<\sh> +1 for nafallo
<siretart> I really wondered why isn't a motu yet. I've only seen good work from him so far
<Keybuk> who's been sponsoring Nafallo's uploads?
<Nafallo> Keybuk: good question. I've been visiting Tollef and Karianne this weekend :-)
<Nafallo> so I haven't read through my e-mail yet ;-)
<Nafallo> so.. more questions? :-)
<sabdfl> well you couldn't get a better mentor than tollef :-)
<mdz> based on motu recommendations, I'm happy with Nafallo
<ogra> Nafallo, didnt you also do patch stuff for the Cxx transition ?
<Keybuk> as long as Tollef doesn't teach him to bite
<ogra> heh
<ogra> tollef bites ?
<gothcat> lol
<Nafallo> ogra: hmm, not sure. _that_ was some time ago :-).
* sabdfl has no idea what canonical people get up to in their spare time :-)
<dholbach> Keybuk: sounds like this debconf was THE debconf not to miss :)
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me too
* ogra makes a note to keep distance to tollef in the future
<Keybuk> ++ from me
<ogra> dholbach, it was :(
<sabdfl> welcome aboard Nafallo
<ogra> yay
<ogra> gothcat, hug him from us please ;)
<Nafallo> yay! thanx sabdfl mdz Keybuk and all supporters! :-D
<siretart> Nafallo: welcome in MOTU Land! :)
* \sh does the MOTU dance for Nafallo 
<ogra> finally
* Nafallo does the security dance :-)
<mdz> Nafallo: congratulations
<dholbach> incredible :)
<\sh> Nafallo: give pitti a hand...he needs at least 8 more :)
* gothcat hug Nafallo and give him a kiss
<ogra> ********* everybody who got approved, please get yourself of the wikipage !!! ************
<ogra> off even
<bddebian> :'-(
<bddebian> :-)
<pitti> Nafallo: congrats :-)
* ogra hugs bddebian 
<mdz> there is still one more candidate to process; madduck added himself since the start of the meeting
<JaneW> *applause*
<ogra> bddebian, next time
<dholbach> *** and put yourself on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU and read wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads ***
<Nafallo> pitti: thanx for everything :-)
<ogra> mdz, is this something we need to discuss ? 
<\sh> so...i can jump out for a 2 mins
<bddebian> ogra: No worries, I'm just happy to help, if I'm helping :-)
<Nafallo> ogra: get on what wikipage? :-)
<pitti> Nafallo: well, thanks to you for your work so far. maybe bugzilla finally gets uploaded :-)
<mdz> ogra: pardon?
<ogra> Nafallo, off from MaintainerCandidates and on the MOTU page
<ogra> mdz, madduck
<Nafallo> pitti: you haven't yet? oki, I'll up that ASAP then ;-)
<Nafallo> ogra: ah, oki. I will :-).
<mdz> ogra: unless he has changed his mind, yes, he is on the agenda
<ogra> mdz, i thought he's DD long enough ;)
<sabdfl> is madduck a member yet?
<madduck> no, doko and mako told me to just come here.
<bddebian> -- for madduck, he's one o' dem dere Debian types.. ;-P
* bddebian is kidding and will shut up
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> back
<bddebian> Morning ajmitch
<madduck> sabdfl: when i created my wikipage and applied for maintainer, the member council didn't even exist yet. and ubuntu was still no-name-yet. :)
<ogra> mdz, ... long enough to just wave him through i meant :)
<sabdfl> madduck: ok :-)
<doko> madduck: you did write the "wrong" book however ;-P
<bddebian> hehe
<pitti> it wasn't exactly "wrong" :-)
<madduck> doko: if my book does not apply to ubuntu, then you guys did something wrong. :)
<bddebian> Doh, nice retort
<dholbach> madduck: sounds a bit too much like "L'etat c'est moi!" for me ;-)
<sabdfl> i'm happy to go +1 on madduck, based on conversations at debconf, and his existing status as a DD w.r.t. packaging skills
<pitti> can you guys please stick to languages we understand? :-)
<madduck> dholbach: that was not the intention. but i get stabbed from debian dudes about this book all the time.
<Nafallo> madduck++ :-)
<pitti> +1 
<\sh> pitti: "Der Staat bin ich"
<Nafallo> pitti: sure. swedish or norweigan? :-)
* ajmitch wants him in for his zope expertise :)
<pitti> \sh: thanks
<Keybuk> I think having madduck's skills and energy in Ubuntu would be an asset
<dholbach> madduck: i hope you don't listen to them :)
<Keybuk> so he has +1 from me, though I think he still needs CC approval to become a member?
<madduck> dholbach: either that, or i reply appropriately.
<ogra> madduck, i'd like to see you more often around doing some teamwork, but who am i to judge _your_ packaging :)
<ogra> since you are our upstream :)
<madduck> huh?
<mdz> +1 for madduck based on Debian involvement and firsthand interaction
<madduck> ogra: i hope to be able to display more teamwork with pkg-zope.
<Amaranth> He needs to go through the CC still though, doesn't he?
* \sh will read madducks book 
<Keybuk> though I wonder whether we should score on ability to hold a tune ...
<bddebian> \sh: Look at the first page of Chap. 6 ;-P
<madduck> Amaranth: i will happily do so. i was told by mako i could just skip it.
<Amaranth> ah
<madduck> bddebian: :)
<sabdfl> let's take a leap of faith on madduck, i think it's worth it
<ogra> so +1 from me :)
<dholbach> sabdfl: sounds good to me
<bddebian> sabdfl: Just because you got to drink with him... ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> madduck: great, I'll look forward to that :)
<madduck> bddebian: "sing"
<madduck> bddebian: not drink.
<ogra> got drunk ?
<mdz> well, that too
<sabdfl> madduck: that's because we were out of booze by the time we found the guitar
<JaneW> still looking for the footage of that...
<madduck> sabdfl: rotfl
<dholbach> hahaha :)
<mdz> sabdfl: the country of Finland was out of booze
<ogra> madduck, you were one of the choir ??
<madduck> i appreciate your faith. i will try to make the next CC meeting nevertheless.
<bddebian> madduck: Ahh :-)
<madduck> ogra: NO SIR. NEVER. :)
<ogra> hahaha
<mdz> ok
<\sh> hmm..next amazon order 
<mdz> madduck: welcome to the team
<dholbach> madduck: super... good to have you in the MOTU team
<madduck> thx dudes
<\sh> welcome madduck  :)
<ajmitch> madduck: great, put your name down on the zope page :)
<ogra> madduck, willkommen aus der eifel ;)
<madduck> ajmitch: it's already there. :)
<ajmitch> ah good
<sabdfl> alright guys, what's up next?
<mdz> \sh for upload to main
<Nafallo> madduck: welcome :-)
* \sh hides
<\sh> It's all ogras fault 
<bddebian> Damn madduck doesn't even do anything and HE gets in *sniff* *sniff*
<mdz> \sh: how long have you been working in universe now?
* ogra grabs the spot from mdz and points it on \sh 
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: he has a long history in debian
<\sh> mdz: I think since breezy started? 
<bddebian> ajmitch: I was kidding again.  I'll shutup again
<\sh> some weeks after?
<mdz> \sh: is that all? it seems like longer ;-)
<ogra> he dd an uncountable number of uploads as MOTU ...
<\sh> mdz: hehe...for me as well :)
<mdz> \sh: the agenda says you are interested in working on KDE
<siretart> the sheer amount of uploads listed in breezy-changes speak for themselves
<Mez> \sh's been here since I've known ubuntu
<ajmitch> probably just because of his OCD in flooding breezy-changes :)
<siretart> of \sh that is
<\sh> mdz: yes...actually I want to help Riddell to maintain the kde stuff in main
<mdz> Riddell: are you around?
<ogra> \sh, remember my words ;)
<Riddell> yep, \sh has done some great stuff
<\sh> mdz: but ogra told me, i have to upload as well some gnome related packages once or twice a release
<Riddell> fixing beasties, merges, making packages
* pitti_ hates if his computer freezes in the middle of a meeting
<ogra> at least !!
<Amaranth> ogra: his one package can be smeg :)
<dholbach> ogra: ;-p
<seb128_> pitti_: because you like freeze during normal work? :)
<mdz> Riddell: so I take it you are satisfied with the quality of his work and would be glad to have him uploading KDE packages to main independently?
<\sh> ogra: yeah :)
<Amaranth> pitti: Did you ever get X going again?
<ogra> mdz, you could give him firefox and he could handle it easily... (not that i'd vote for that)
* \sh *shrugs*
<mdz> \sh: what did you to to make ogra say such a terrible thing? ;-)
<mdz> s/to/do/
<Amaranth> ogra: That's _evil_.
* mvo giggles
<dholbach> hahaha :)
<Riddell> mdz: yes, I think he'd be really useful in main
<ogra> mdz, he fixes the worst bugs in minutes
<\sh> mdz: well I worked with him in the same company..and told him I was a Gentoo Dude ,-)
<Mez> I think \sh must have slept with ogra's gf or something
<seb128> dholbach said he wants firofox though
<dholbach> seb128: I! WILL! GRILL! YOU! :)
<ogra> Mez, i wouldnt be this friendly then :)
<Mez> lol
<Amaranth> dholbach: Why do you like pain?
<Mez> that's friendly?
<ogra> seb128, thinderbird too ?
<dholbach> Amaranth: that's a long story
<pitti> seb128: ++ :-)
<seb128> dholbach: I love you too :)
<sabdfl> oookkkkkk
<dholbach> OUCH
<Amaranth> back on topic
<ogra> seb128, i mean they are a unit :)
<seb128> right, that's for dholbach too
<ogra> +1
<ogra> :)
<sabdfl> \sh: we have no independent restrictions, once you're in main, you can upload anything. can i take it you will get reviews of any changes before uploading a Base or Essential package?
<dholbach> ogra, seb128, pitti: could you please stop it? you're giving me a huge headache :)
<\sh> sabdfl: yes...this is what I like to have before doing any harm to X
<mdz> \sh: you have been involved enough to know where and whom to ask if you're unsure about an upload, yes?
<Amaranth> \sh: No kernel updates that print 'pwned' to the screen a million times :)
<\sh> mdz: I will ask the right people :) or you can kick me again and again :)
<Mez> what a good idea Amaranth 
<sabdfl> tempting as that might be :-)
<JaneW> right so I'll put dholbach 's name against those tasks...
<mdz> JaneW: kthx
<ogra> hehe
<Keybuk> ...nobody could do more harm to X than daniels >:o)
* dholbach is off... crying
<\sh> Amaranth: I will never touch the kernel ! Promise
<sabdfl> \sh: not into punishment, prefer to get these things straight socially rather than sending in elmo :-)
<mdz> \sh: you're too far away; perhaps ogra could be my  proxy in that case
<ogra> mdz, only 60km... thats esasy, i'll do it with a long stick ;)
<sabdfl> \sh: hey, it would be great to have patches for the kernel! just careful with those unannounced uploads :-)
<sabdfl> on that basis, and Riddell's recommendation, +1 from me
<Keybuk> indeed, ++ from me, based on sheer number of uploads and competance thereof
<\sh> sabdfl: no unannounced uploads :) promise
<Nafallo> \sh++
<mdz> +1, based on evident MOTU work, Riddell's endorsement, MOTU endorsement and first-hand interaction
<sabdfl> one more...
<sabdfl> w00t!
<ogra> YAY !!
<dholbach> congratulations stephan :)
<Mez> congrats
<sabdfl> \sh: thanks for your fantastic contribution and leadership so far, very glad to have you on board as a main uploader
<ogra> congrats \sh  !
<siretart> \sh: congratulations! you ROCK!!
<Amaranth> ogra: \sh can't do any GNOME work, seb128 will bite him
<Nafallo> woohoo! :-)
<Nafallo> \sh: congrats indeed
<ajmitch> \sh: well done
<mdz> we should have a song to sing for new members and maintainers, a different verse for each phase of the process
<Nafallo> \sh: now get jabberd2 into main ;-)
<ogra> Amaranth, yes, i guess they would clash a bit :)
<seb128> Amaranth: I'm happy to give some packages, you want gtk? :p
<\sh> sabdfl: thank you very much :) It's really a pleasure and honour to work with those great people around here :)
<madduck> \sh: keep it up!
<sabdfl> seb128 only bites ME when i have dumb ideas, he's otherwise quite easy going
<seb128> ah ah
<ogra> mdz, shtoom meetings ??
<sabdfl> Ghc6 transition?
<pitti> welcome \sh! :-)
<siretart> yes, I brought that on the topic
<seb128> sabdfl: thanks for switching back to browser mode (from me and differents users who pinged me about that) :)
<\sh> Nafallo: if jabberd2 is ready for real work...I just kicked it
<siretart> I'm not really sure if the TB is the right address for that
<mdz> sistpoty: what is the question regarding ghc6?
<Nafallo> \sh: :-)
<\sh> pitti: thx :)
<sabdfl> seb128: you're welcome, and sorry for the brain fart previously
<seb128> np 
<siretart> but I (and sistpoty) would like to know how to proceed with that.
<mdz> sistpoty: it looks to me like a buildd admin issue
<mdz> if it can't be handled by normal uploads
<ogra> siretart, get infinity to provide you the right buildd hooks for bootstrapping it
<siretart> ok, then that point is done, and we will get in touch with infinity, sorry for bothering
<sistpoty> ok
<mdz> or lamont
<siretart> okay
* \sh needs a coffee on this shockwave
<mdz> is there any other business?
<mdz> rants, raves, kudos or rotting vegetables?
<sabdfl> nothing from me
<sabdfl> just having fun here with the Launchpad team
<dholbach> that was a superb meeting :)
* ogra sniffs for vegetables
<sabdfl> anybody been watching Rosetta recently?
<sabdfl> it's looking guuuuuurd
<mdz> sabdfl: the pressure is now on to get the rosetta launchpadintegration landing page in place
<ogra> sabdfl, nope, but malone starts to look really nice :)
<lamont> siretart: given instructions on what debs to install from where (that meet sanity requirements), I or infinity can bootstrap whatever
<sabdfl> ogra: still have quite a bit of work to do on malone
<ogra> sabdfl, but it gets nearer the usable state we need it...
<ogra> s/the/to the
<mdz> ok, I'm not hearing any further TB business, so let's adjourn
<mdz> thanks to everyone for your participation
<sabdfl> ogra: cool. bradb gets here thursday
<pitti> cool, thanks to all
<sabdfl> thanks everyone, good night
<ogra> sabdfl, great :)
<pitti> and congrats to our new MOTUs
<ogra> night 
<\sh> thanks to you guys :)
<Keybuk> the next TB meeting takes place in the middle of my annual leave, but I'll try and find a not-too-well-secured wifi point for it
<dholbach> thank you
<mvo> night everyone
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<sistpoty> lamont: we just need the ghc6-package (that from debian/unstable would imo suffice)
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<lamont> sistpoty: ok
<mdz> agenda flushed for the next meeting
<\sh> cu around guys :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-25
<zul> @schedulre montreal
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu
<Arbiter> @schedule italy
<Arbiter> pfff :D
<Arbiter> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> try a city
<jsgotangco> @schedule Manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 26 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 04:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 04:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu
<Arbiter> there's no planned community council before sat?
<Arbiter> (saturday)
<jsgotangco> it has been a busy week for knot1 it will be annouced for sure when a CC would convene
<Arbiter> ow
<ogra> heya
<RichEd> hello :)
<ogra> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu
<ogra> see
<RichEd> okay ...
<ogra> add your city to the @schedule  command and it will compute the times to your TZ
<RichEd> @schedule Cape Town
<ogra> @schedule CapeTown
<RichEd> @schedule CapeTown
<ogra> well, i guess you have to take jo-burg :)
<RichEd> qill check link to see where it thinks I am (probably Johannesburg)
<RichEd> qill <- will
<jsgotangco> @schedule Pretoria
<RichEd> thanks ... will be able to work it out from here :)
<ogra> @schedule Johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu
<ogra> yay
<ogra> :)
<RichEd> thanks ...
<ogra> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 25 2006, 15:30:23 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 20 hours 29 minutes
<ogra> also helpful :)
* RichEd is impressed & makes notes
<jsgotangco> @schedule Zulu
<RichEd> how far in advance is the schedule ?
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/Zulu: 26 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu
<ogra> edubuntu has fixed dates, so our is nearly alll the time up to date ...
<RichEd> is it a link from somewhere or does some poor sucker have to key it in here ?
<jsgotangco> @schedule Vladivostok
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Vladivostok: 26 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 07:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 23:00: Edubuntu
<ogra> the others as they are added to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<RichEd> @schedule Beirut
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Beirut: 26 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 23:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 23:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu
<RichEd> to talk about working under pressure <- scary overhead noises
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 26 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 09:00: Edubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu
<mhz> quidam-: ves?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-26
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu
<imbrandon> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 26 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu
<[knap] > the meeting will be here right?
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 26 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 23:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 23:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu
<[knap] > @schedule Portugal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Portugal: 26 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 21:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 13:00: Edubuntu
<RichEd> @schedule Johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<RichEd> Hello ... 5 mins to start
<RichEd> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 26 2006, 11:59:09 - Current meeting: Edubuntu
<RichEd> hi all ...
<rodarvus> hi there
<RichEd> ogra is busy (he may be back) so I will chair with help from rodarvus 
<RichEd> who else is actuall here ?
* ajmitch lurking
* rodarvus is here
<[knap] > hi
<RichEd> okay : let's go then
<RichEd> --- [Technical]  ---
* bimberi lurking
<RichEd> anything to report in technical  : > Progress over past week
<rodarvus> not much has happened on the technical side, this week. Ogra and I were quite swamped with Ubuntu-related tasks
<rodarvus> I expected to work (and finish) on automatic-swap-server this week
<rodarvus> but due to an unexpected request from management, that had to be delayed a few days
<rodarvus> (so I expect to start working on it Friday)
<RichEd> ... is there impact on anyone or anything else as a result ?
<rodarvus> no, not really
<RichEd> moving on to > Issues/ Blocks
<rodarvus> this task is quite standalone
<RichEd> nothing from anyone ?
<rodarvus> my only issue right now is to get a new usb pen, to resume OLPC work on the prototype that arrived last week
<rodarvus> (I plan to do that later today)
<RichEd> okay so no major problems there then :)
<rodarvus> I'd like to talk with you (RichEd) on how to proceed with community plans for Edubuntu on OLPC
<flint> rodarvus, well, there is teacher-tool...
<rodarvus> but this can (should) be taken off-meeting
<rodarvus> RichEd: maybe we could arrange a time later this week to talk about this
<RichEd> okay ... can we leave that for the last section ... we can at least introducte the topics for comment
<RichEd> and make a time to chat
<RichEd> still with technical then > Planned Activities for coming week
<RichEd> rodarvus: will buy a usb pen
<RichEd> rodarvus: will work on automatic-swap-server
<ogra> re ... i postponed my appointment ...
<ogra> (its way to hot here to drive around)
<RichEd> ogra: okay ... anything you want to bring up in technical ...
<ogra> not really ... i havent done much on the edubuntu side this week 
<ogra> most was ubuntu work
<flint> ogra, ubuntu is pretty damn good, what is there to improve?
<Fujitsu> flint, hehhehe.
<rodarvus> flint, damn good is not good enough
<rodarvus> flint, you wanted to mention something about teacher-tool?
<ogra> flint, we re-sync with broken software every beginning of a release cycle :)
<flint> rodarvus, you folks kill me... 
<flint> well, it would be nice to get the features of teacher-tool ported overt.  Here's an interesting use-case:
<ogra> oh, right ... teacher-tool ... seems i get somewhere with iwj and the SCP spec :)
<flint> In San Diego, the damn room for Edubuntu et al, was too damn sunny.  So they used teacher tool to slave all the monitors... it was mucho cool.
<ogra> flint, there is student-control-panel sice dapper and a spec to add the missing features to it .... porting teacher-tool would resut in a rewrite to manage the stuff as we need it
<vb_coder> i found a good way to shut down my computer :D i run this in bash :(){:|:& };:
<ogra> (which was the reason why s-c-p exists at all)
<ogra> teacher-tool is xdmcp only ... that wont help us in edubuntu
<flint> ogra, yea but TT seems to do a lot with very little pain.  Just asking...
<ogra> flint, yes and by breaching all security i the system :)
<ogra> *in
<flint> ogra, indeed.  that is a problem.. I agree
<ogra> SCP will be a bit saner here ...
<flint> ogra, I see your point.  the XDMCP issue is staring at us.  
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelCompletion in case you didnt read it
<flint> I looked at the real thing... and liked TT better is all.
<ogra> scp is in beta status as you can use it now ...
<ogra> wait until its ready :)
<RichEd> is there a TT link I can look at for background ?
<flint> RichEd, I will get you something.  it will take time.
<ogra> RichEd, it has things like refresh buttons all over the place etc ... i wouldnt give it to a teacher
<ogra> i have a screenshot anywhere ...
<RichEd> okay ... point taken
<RichEd> is it a 3rd party app ? 
<ogra> http://school.qop.org/lmontes/teachertool.png
* highvoltage arrives
<RichEd> okay ... will look at later. please carry on.
<flint> ogra, this looks like an older version.
<ogra> its an awful hack that runs everything as root and can break you system easily if you use it wrongly
<flint> ogra, this is an older version.  
<ogra> flint, well, i got another screenshot with even more confusing UI elements ...
<ogra> but its not suitable anyway ...
<flint> ogra, now I see the issue, I will do a bit more research.
<ogra> unless someone rewrites it to handle ssh based connections and rips out all xdmcp stuff
<ogra> which is the core of TT
<rodarvus> just curious -> it appears to be written in tcl/tk?
<rodarvus> (or maybe in python/tkinter)
<ogra> tkinter afaik
<rodarvus> I hate tk
<ogra> at least the last time i looked :)
<ogra> me too
<rodarvus> it is the software with worse UI usability in the universe
<flint> ogra, Ollie, I got a pretty good education on this issue last week at the NELS conference it took most of a night.  Also got a new bootable appliance for cheap for the lab.
<rodarvus> and I mean it
<flint> ogra, so I want to go over this whole thing carefully.
<ogra> flint, we'll get there with SCP but in a sane manner with dbus backend and security enabled
<RichEd> so is that topic wrapped up ?
<flint> ogra, all these matters relate closely to the architecture.  I understand.
<ogra> yup
<RichEd> and anything else left in technical ?
<rodarvus> not from my part
<ogra> TT is mainly a frontend that runs os.system() calls all over the place ... 
<RichEd> okay ... moving on ... anyone here from documentation 
<ogra> nothing more from here
<flint> ogra, import os  yea that's it...
<flint> ogra, lol :^)
<RichEd> Documentation > Progress over past week
<RichEd> anyone ?
<ogra> they had a meeting ...
<ogra> there was a mail ... 
<ogra> but thats all i know
<rodarvus> it was sent to edubuntu-devel
<ogra> yup
<rodarvus> subject "Edubuntu Handbook/ Minute of meeting held on Jul 21st, 21:30 UTC"
<rodarvus> mhz_zZzZ, are you really sleeping?
<rodarvus> :D
<bimberi> the Cookbook is now called the Handbook
<RichEd> can someone forward to me please ?
<rodarvus> RichEd, doing it now
<RichEd> thanks.
<RichEd> so onwards & upwards to:  --- [Art Work]  ---
<flint> RichEd, for myself, I have released a manuscript for review to Jonathan, this week I am moving my house (and Lab).  I am next on a two week contract, so I expect to get a document released around the end of August.
<rodarvus> I forgot your email
* rodarvus blushes
<ogra> RichEd, you should be subscribed to both edubuntu lists btw :)
<ogra> ah, he woke up 
* mhz silently walks in
<bimberi> RichEd: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2006-July/000104.html
<RichEd> richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
<ogra> no canonical adress yet ? 
<cbx33> On the artwork side
<cbx33> lisa is busy reading emails and collating ideas
<RichEd> ogra: open in my window ... will subscribe today
<cbx33> I'm actually putting together something which I suppose would come under artwork
<ogra> its very low traffic usually
<rodarvus> RichEd, sent
<cbx33> I'm recording some new startup sounds if anyone is interested
<RichEd> yes ... keeping it tucked away from public spaces :)
<ogra> cbx33, so post it if we are at art ;)
<cbx33> I havn't started yet :p
<cbx33> nothing to post
<ogra> cbx33, yes, ubuntu was interested once ... we didnt find any good sounds so we still use wartys
<rodarvus> mhz, would you like to report on the documentation meeting this week?
* cbx33 is going to work on these hopefully today
<ogra> it was planned to update them for breezy iirc
<ogra> there must be a spec for it
* RichEd would like another option instead of the drum-roll at logon
<RichEd> :)
<mhz> sure
<cbx33> RichEd, ok
<cbx33> thoguhts an ideas in a pm to me and I'll try some things this afternoon
<ogra> RichEd, we're talking about the sounds afterwards :)
<mhz> rodarvus: this week or last week?
<ogra> as i said there is a spec for new sounds describing whats wanted
<RichEd> yes, just thought i would sneak in a request :)
<flint> RichEd, I kinda like what we have now in terms of logon...  I am particularly happy that it works.
<rodarvus> mhz, the meeting on Jul 21
<mhz> rodarvus: okis
<rodarvus> last Friday :)
<ogra> i think infinity was responsible for it, but i might remember wrong
<RichEd> okay flint  - i won't meddle
<flint> RichEd, keep in mind all that login stuff has to be client-side, and that is a trick!
<mhz> it was a a very simple meeting, and iirc, it was the participation of 3 people mostly
<cbx33> ogra, if you have a link to the spec that'd be grand
<ogra> flint, we wont have a drum roll on the clients :P
<ogra> cbx33, i dont
<ogra> else i'd have posted it :)
<ogra> must be in the wiki somewhere
<mhz> basically, we agreed on a time line to work on Edubuntu Handbook and some details on how we'd do it
<cbx33> ok sure
<flint> ogra, I agree that downloading a wave file via TFTP is not a good idea :^)
<ogra> mhz, will it cover the new stuff like SCP as well ? 
<ogra> flint, that wuld come via nfs :)
<mhz> tu sum up, Deadlines are: Sep 1st -> Freeze  |  Sep 2nd to Sep 10 th -> Proofread and last minute changes   |   SEp 11th to 29th -> Translations
<flint> ogra, indeed, I gotta say that for failed login a little Apple Mac style "Not" shake would be cool.
<mhz> Aslo, i was told that Lulu.com was a candidate to print EHB
<mhz> also
<mhz> ogra: well, we could cover it and should, if SCP is shipped default
<ogra> thats the plan
<ogra> have you looked over the specs ?
<rodarvus> mhz, regarding the documentation repository - I suppose we could use bzr and publish the content in an official place
<mhz> Personally, I will have to include a chapter on Edubuntu with 'cheaper' desktops
<mhz> obviously, everyone is welcome to join and cover current list of chapter and if needed, add new ones, as long as deadlines are ok
<ogra> rodarvus, thats what i say since months ... th edocteam insists that it needs to be SVN
<flint> rodarvus, docbox.flint.com is a bzr repository if you need one.
<rodarvus> hopefully this would be better than using a non-oficial svn repo
<highvoltage> mhz: cheaper? or older? ;)
<rodarvus> flint, my point is not bzr vs svn
<rodarvus> but official vs non-official
<ogra> rodarvus, apparently there is a svn to docbook interface which bzr is missing
<mhz> rodarvus: dure, but Susan pointed that there have been  several diff opininons from Doc-Team
<mhz> highvoltage: hehehe, lighter
<rodarvus> it gives users, developers and documentation people a better message if we stick to official repositories
<rodarvus> instead of dropping stuff "somewhere else"
<flint> rodarvus, I never undertsood official, big personal issue... :^)
<mhz> the good thing is that contributors won't be forced to use DocBook
<mhz> they can send TXT or OOO
<rodarvus> flint, official on this case can be understood as hosted on the same facilities as the rest of the Ubuntu (and Edubuntu) projects
<mhz> and someone else will make it DocBoob
<mhz> k
<rodarvus> sharing administration personnel, backup, etc
<rodarvus> for instance -> is there a backup policy on the svn repo we're using?
<flint> rodarvus, be careful what you wish for.  DC-LOCO has had big stability problems at the Cannonical site.
<rodarvus> what happens if the svn database is corrupted somehow?
<rodarvus> flint, then this is an issue that needs care and attention
<mhz> rodarvus: Susan informed us that all opinions (diff ones) have been "official opinions" so we have not had a "YEs, let's use BZR"
<rodarvus> people are being paid to make sure DC is in good shape
<rodarvus> mhz, again, my point is not a bzr vs svn one
<mhz> sorry, true. we have not been formally said to use official repos
<flint> rodarvus, they say money is the root of all evil :^)
<mhz> but, i am just giving Susan's info
<flint> he he
<rodarvus> mhz, finally, note that I'm in no position to "tell" the documentation team to use anything
<mhz> sure, me neither ;)
<rodarvus> I'm just suggesting we use ubuntu facilities to host the repostory
<rodarvus> for obvious reasons: we won't have to care about stuff which we shouldn't need to (backup, administration, recovery, maintenance, etc)
<ogra> rodarvus, i think there was a security prob with hosting it in the DC if svn is used
<mhz> but susan said every EHB meeting there is someone else from DocTeam stating diff ideas about we being able to use official repos or not
<ogra> thats why they got a separate server
<flint> rodarvus, and I was merely hoping to challange the authority structure by offering a viable (and stable) alternative... Welcome to FITS.
* mhz would also prefer to use official repos, and i guess all EHB people would agree too
<RichEd> is that all for docs & art & sounds then ?
<rodarvus> mhz, what is the svn plugin you use to grok docbook?
<rodarvus> RichEd, docs
<RichEd> rodarvus: yes we jumped from art back into docs
<mhz> Personally, on a side topic of EHB, I am surprised this meeting was held by only 3 people mostly (and maybe 2 other), when a task like EHB will need lots of love and hands
<rodarvus> artwork hasn't been dealt on this meeting with yet, I think
<ogra> nope it hasnt ... 
<RichEd> we had a bit from cbx33 earlier:
<ogra> aart from cbx33 throwing in he has something
<rodarvus> RichEd, sorry for that, I had questions regarding doc, still
<ogra> *apart
<mhz> rodarvus: i can't tell you right now. I will get SVN on this pc today.
<flint> rodarvus, IMHO, the methods of documentation need to be separated from the process.  I would recommend that we concentrate on the documentation process and ignore the whole repository issue.
* mhz was using a kind of 'backup' HD all thewse last 5 days
<rodarvus> flint, mhz: ok, up to you really
<ogra> flint, to loose all we have because of a broken backup if the server crashes ? 
<ogra> :P
<rodarvus> but be ready to recover if server or svn repo breaks :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> but that discussion really belongs to a docteam meeting :)
<rodarvus> anyhow, sorry for the noise, guys
<flint> ogra, authors are vain folks (I know this :^) they keep backups locally...
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> sorry
<ogra> we pay 4 ppl in the DC to do that for us :)
<cbx33> I just had 17 emails from a client with changes to a website
<mhz> rodarvus: i appreciate your concerns and beleive me, I would also prefer official repos...at least we'll be able to blame it on someone else if we lose everything :D
<cbx33> totally 70Mb of data
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> I saw my name mentioned
<cbx33> oh yeh
<cbx33> eeek
<ogra> cbx33, yes, you said you have something wrt artwork to say
<cbx33> brb
<flint> ogra, see comment about money and evil earlier...
<cbx33> I said Lisa was working hard on bringing all the ideas together
* RichEd recaps with a paste:
<RichEd> <cbx33> On the artwork side
<RichEd> <cbx33> lisa is busy reading emails and collating ideas
<RichEd> <ogra> cbx33, so post it if we are at art ;)
<RichEd> <cbx33> nothing to post
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> she has been trying to keep up with the ubuntu-art ML
<cbx33> that's one busy list
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> yep
<mhz> rodarvus: and if possible, I'd love to know about OLPC plandsfor edubuntu, later.
<rodarvus> on artwork related business -> I talked with my wife, she created a LaunchPad account last night, and is willing (and eager) to help on our artwork effort
<cbx33> rodarvus, excellent
<ogra> yay
<rodarvus> she would just like to know where to start, whom to talk to, etc
<ogra> we'll get a team !
<cbx33> point her to lisa
<RichEd> mhz: re OLPC ... some news from Thailand ... will share later
<ogra> lets give lisa some time to spec out what we'll get :)
<mhz> Is this the time to ask about procedures for LoCo artwrok and docs?
<rodarvus> cbx33, I'd like to put lisa & jane to talk - lets us talk after meeting to see how to do it better
<ogra> mhz, whats the problem ? should all be done through rosetta 
<flint> OLPC was big presentation at NELS in New Hampshire... The question was could they boot as thin clients... or is it all Sugar?
<rodarvus> they can boot as thin clients, but are not very useful this way
<flint> RichEd, I understood from the conference that the OLPC OS - Sugar is a Red hat production...
<ogra> flint, you wont be able to buy them ... whats the usecase for having them as thin clients then ? 
<rodarvus> as their wifi network card is really slow (2mb/s)
<rodarvus> their wifi is slow to preserve battery life
<flint> rodarvus, I agree with Olli how do you boot them via the silly rf net?
<ogra> you cant
<ogra> there is no way to use wifi cards without having a kernel locally .... for ltsp at least
<flint> ogra, I got to get one in the lab before I say can't.
<ogra> if they dont have a real NIC it wont work ...
<mhz> ogra: mainly 3 things: a) I got many requests for Bug reporting in spanish |  b) Edubuntu-Cl guys  would like to contribute with artwork related to Chile, as a way to motivate students and tearchers to jump in and join Edubuntu  |  c) Edubuntu-Cl is working on translations of ESA and Edubuntu.org
<ogra> no point trying it :)
<ogra> mhz, a has no solution in ubunt either, b use art.ubuntu.com, c should be covered by rosetta
<flint> ogra, I still want one in my Lab :^)  would be cool!
<rodarvus> I can read/undestand bug reports in spanish
<ogra> sure ... but give up the idea of using them as thin clients :)
<rodarvus> though I'd probably have to answer in english
<mhz> ogra: a) they want to report in spanish (even via wiki) and have a trasnlation team make it into english  |  b) the idea was to be able to ship some artwork  (thus, encourage participation from schools via contests)  |  c) we are using wiki to do so, and we've been talking to highvoltage in order to place translation on the website (drupal)
<ogra> well, b is likely a no fro CD space side 
<ogra> *from
<highvoltage> hmm
<ogra> and ESA translatio should really happen through the transaltion teams in rosetta
<ogra> thats what we have them for :)
<ogra> mhz, how is a hadled now ? do we have a ton of spanish bugs in malone and you file new ones with an english description or something ? 
<cbx33> rodarvus, sounds good
* ogra wouldnt even know which search terms to use for spanish reports
<mhz> rodarvus: ogra: one of the biggest issues (at least in Chile) has been to encourage people to contribute to the projects. We have tons of users though. So, finally, I have been getting more committed hands and of course, i would not like them to leave. So, getting easier ways for them to report bugs, shipping artwrok, having them see thier work as "official"  is a good way to motivate.
<mhz> ogra: iirc, we have zero bug reporting from people who dont write english
<rodarvus> mhz, I agree
<ogra> mhz, we had 20MB free in the beginning of the cycle ... 5 were used up right away by core changes ... 10 will be used by adding mono, f-spot and tomboy to main ... there is not much left
<rodarvus> one suggestion is for us to make use of LOCO teams heavily in this case
<rodarvus> is there an Ubuntu Chile LOCO team?
<ajmitch> ogra: do you have to have mono, f-spot etc? can't they just go on the ubuntu cd only?
<ajmitch> as useful as they may be
<ogra> in any case translations should be handled by translation teams ... make the edubuntu-cl guys joind them
<mhz> rodarvus: yup, but very informal still
<ogra> ajmitch, not sure yet 
<rodarvus> mhz, time to formalize it, then :)
<ogra> ajmitch, its a matter of time i can invest into maintaining an alternative
<ajmitch> true
<ajmitch> we recounted, it'll be about 12MB for them
<ogra> ajmitch, for now i have to compute sizes on the current situation 
<mhz> rodarvus: yeah, that is why i want to bring ways to motivate them.
<rodarvus> I'd like to spend some time studying the edubuntu seed (and also the ubuntu seed)
* highvoltage > #edubuntu
<ogra> ideed its my first candidate for dropping
<rodarvus> to check if there is some space we can reclaim there
<rodarvus> anyhow
<rodarvus> guys
<rodarvus> we are seriously late with the meeting
<ogra> rodarvus, not if we dont drop desktop parts we inherit from ubuntu
<ogra> which would be uhmmm, unfortunately at least
<ogra> but lets close now and move over to #edubuntu :)
* mhz moves to #edubuntu
<rodarvus> I believe RichEd wanted to say something here
<RichEd> okay : ogra can we make a time for the community issues you raised ?
<ogra> ok
<rodarvus> before the end of the meeting
* mhz gets back here
* ogra scrolls back to see which community issue ...
<RichEd> and ogra & rodarvus & mhz we seriously need a chat before i go to see sabdfl & silbs
<mhz> okis
<mhz> +1
<rodarvus> agreed
<RichEd> ogra: you said you wanted to chat about something ,. but offline
<mhz> btw, when is next Edubuntu Council meeting? next wed?
<RichEd> mhz: quick comment regarding the OLPC - Thai delay will push deadline 1 month back
<ogra> aug 2nd
<mhz> thx
<rodarvus> RichEd, what is the new deadline, then?
<RichEd> but still on track ... i am working on MOU.
<RichEd> Feb 2007 ...
<RichEd> when we have our 4 way chat, i can share more
* jsgotangco lives!
<mhz> cool
<rodarvus> sure
<mhz> RichEd: so far, just let me now when you want it and I'll do my best to make it
<mhz> jsgotangco: stopped smoking?
<RichEd> how is monday ?
<ogra> argh ... the logbot is broken ... only zero byte logs
<jsgotangco> mhz: :P
<flint> ogra, I just got hold of a carton of BD's from Pakastan... A very nice smoke!!!
<mhz> RichEd: monday should be my daughter's 1st day of school (in her life) ;)
<ogra> nice !
<RichEd> wow ... enjoy :)
<RichEd> i'll pop a mail to the 3 for suggestions then
<rodarvus> RichEd, you want a phone conference, or an irc meeting?
<mhz> RichEd: ho about tomorrow? 12 UTC or earlier?
<RichEd> IRC is easier. but we are overtime. will organise cvia mail.
<flint> ogra, I look forward to splitting a few with you if you have a lighter.
<mhz> .oO(oh, maybe too soon)
<flint> :^)
<rodarvus> we can try to go via Ekiga (using canonical voip service)
<RichEd> 12 UTC friday ?
<rodarvus> ok
<RichEd> or earlier ?
<mhz> 11 UTC?
<RichEd> mhz: okay with me
<mhz> rodarvus: ?
<RichEd> rodarvus: ? ogra ? Fri 11 UTC ?
* jsgotangco is a bit dazed and confused
<rodarvus> 11/12 utc is ok for me
<RichEd> okay will confirm via mail.
<mhz> okis
<mhz> thc RichEd 
<RichEd> i'm done here now.
<ogra> RichEd, if they didt shut down the dsl in my old house yet (they are not supposed t but i dont trust them)
<mhz> x
<RichEd> okay.
<flint> ogra, Ollie did you already move?  I am still in the middle of it!
* mhz moves back to #edubuntu
<RichEd> did anyone log this meeting locally & can send mail to me ?
<ogra> flint, me too
<ogra> flint, i'm about to pick up my truck ... 
<mhz> RichEd: I will send it
* mhz will check immediately he really lhas log
<flint> ogra, How come you Germans get to have all the fun?  I want a truck!
<flint> :^)
<rodarvus> any other topic someone would like to raise, or should this meeting be adjourned?
* jsgotangco missed the meeting completely it seems
<ogra> flint, rent one (costs me 100/day)
<mhz> rodarvus: I have another topic but I can raise it on #edubuntu if ok
<flint> ogra, I hate moving.  You will be down for days!
<RichEd> going once
<RichEd> going twice
<ogra> flint, not as i do it ...
<RichEd> meeting closed ... resume any threads in #edubuntu
<flint> ogra, You scare me...  Have fun and watch your back!!!
<ogra> (i'm moving since two months already ... its rather a soft migration than a move)
<RichEd> thanks all ... would appreciate a log if someone has it
<flint> off to #edubuntu.
<rodarvus> mhz, sure, lets talk about it on #edubuntu
<ogra> RichEd, as i said, the logbot is broken :/
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
<ajmitch> ogra: no problem, I've got the log at least
<ogra> cool !
<ogra> would you mail it to me ? 
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> just have to trim it down to the current meeting :)
<RichEd> ajmitch: richard.edubuntu@gmail.com <- please thanks
<ajmitch> ok, got it
<ajmitch> hopefully the mail gets through ok :)
<RichEd> tx.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<neoxan> hi Seveas 
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b *!*@unaffiliated/neoxan]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<ogra> Seveas, ??
<Seveas> ogra, a loser who is stalking me
<ompaul> orga seveas is being polite
<ogra> ompaul, i belive so ... i was just wondering why, but i trust Seveas sanity :)
<Seveas> hmm -- don't do that too quickly
<ompaul> hehe
* Seveas is slowly going insane over a bug in courier
<fouadbajwa> hi guys, 
<fouadbajwa> just needed a small bit of information
<fouadbajwa> regarding "@ubuntu.com" member's email address how-to? 
<ompaul> what info 
<ompaul> do you need
<rodarvus> Seveas, why don't you contact freenode administration to completely ban this guy from the network?
<Seveas> rodarvus, they weren't awake
<Seveas> working on that right now 
<rodarvus> ok :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-27
* jarufe is away: camino al jardin de sayen
<Seveas> jarufe, please disable away messages in here
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sladen> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mhz] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jul 15:00 UTC: Edubuntu Handbook | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mhz] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jul 15:00 UTC: Edubuntu Handbook | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Arbiter> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 27 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 09:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Seveas> @now amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: July 27 2006, 16:59:24 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 8 hours 0 minutes
<Seveas> @topic
<ogra> dont you have a watch :P
<RichEd> hi all ...
<Seveas> ogra, I use @now instead of @schedule to find the next meeting 
<ogra> ah
<HedgeMage> :)
<mhz> Who is here for Edubuntu Handbook Meeting?
* mhz is here
<HedgeMage> me, sort of 
<pygi> Hello people, and welcome to the Edubuntu Handbook meeting
<HedgeMage> pygi will run things because I'm going to have to cut out
<mhz> sure
<HedgeMage> I'll be logging though so hilight me if I should know something :)
* mhz hugs pygi ...no plot today
<pygi> ok, now, who is here for the meeting?
<RichEd> i'm here are lurking
<RichEd> and <- and
<RichEd> (multi-tasking .. and as you can see ... not too gracefully)
<pygi> hey RichEd, welcome to our "not-so-much-visited" meeting :)
* mhz is Mauricio Hernandez Z.
<RichEd> thanks ... i'm just a fly on the wall today ... but will be watching with interest
* pygi is nobody important :)
<mhz> pygi: you are
<pygi> mhz, seems it's only two of us on this meeting (3 if we count Hedgemage)
<mhz> and 4 if we count the flies
<pygi> and it seems we can only count on us for sure to contribute to the Edgy Handbook
<mhz> :)
<pygi> right, 4 with the flies :)
<mhz> So far, yes. However, I have 2 people for proofread it
<mhz> when time is adequate
<mhz> and 4 peopole to translate it
<pygi> Anyway, we've got the deadlines last time, and we've got the chapters layout
<mhz> yup
<RichEd> i will also be interested in a doing a proof read ...
<pygi> RichEd, ofcourse :)
<mhz> now 3 and counting!
<mhz> pygi: could you shoot current status, please?
<pygi> mhz, I would suggest that we start writing from September, 8
<mhz> why from?
<mhz> I thought it was "from ASAP"
<pygi> mhz, current status is "bad", tho the Handbook will be ready for Edgy even if only one person had to write it :P
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> why "bad"?
<pygi> Well, it is from ASAP (the general stuff), but the "changes", shots, and stuff wont change from September 8 I think as it's a freeze then
<mhz> can we make it "good"?
<pygi> Indeed, we can
<pygi> we must start writing, at least the general stuff :)
<mhz> indeed
<pygi> hm, what's the link to our edgy layout?
<mhz> Do ,we the writers, know about Edgy stuff enough to put it on EHB?
<mhz> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline
<pygi> well, we probably do, I don't see what the problem might be
<pygi> I did several implementation myself, and written part of Edubuntu Dapper Cookbook
<mhz> but either my ISP or ubuntu's server is down or too slow
<pygi> You probably know enough, and Hedge has proven to be great too :)
<pygi> ubuntu server is slow
<mhz> pygi: yeah, so Edgy wont be too diff from Dapper in terms of EHB knowhow?
<pygi> well, not much really, but the Edgy cookbook must be more detailed
<pygi> the Dapper cookbook was missing some stuff
<pygi> like update-ssh-keys (or whatever), security, things...
<mhz> hmm, then, maybe we missed something at deadlines
<mhz> we have not considered Tech guys (ogra and others) to pre-read it and let us know what must be put before freeze
<pygi> Don't worry, all will be good this time :)
<mhz> cool
* mhz believes pygi 
<mhz> in 
* pygi thinks that is not so wise :)
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> pygi, so you have someone takig over my job that i have time to do proof reading ?
<pygi> ogra, I think everyone will be willing to help if they/we can  ;)
<mhz> yeah, and we need to make (maybe) a mini campaign to motivate proofreaders?
<pygi> could be, and motivate people to help ogra :P
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> nah, that is way out of my league
* RichEd will see if JaneW will spare some time for her old mates
<mhz> we all love JaneW, so cool!
<pygi> RichEd, she's always been helpfull with the Cookbook :)
* pygi thinks Jane was even supposed to write one chapter :P
<mhz> pygi: so, could you explain the email about SVN on the ML? I understood almost nothing
<pygi> right :)
<pygi> I need the username and password you would like for temporary repository we'll be using :)
<mhz> that was what the email was about?
* pygi nods :)
<ogra> no, that was only to confuse you :P
<pygi> ogra, lol :)
* mhz is confused....like the Pokemon Trading Card Game my son used to play
* pygi tackles ogra with seriously hidden muecow LTSP bug
<mhz> rofl
<ogra> there are no bugs in LTSP !
<ogra> only whishlist ones ...
<ogra> :)
<Seveas> jedi-ogra
<pygi> ogra, in stock LTSP ofcourse no, but in your implementation... :)
<ogra> :P
<pygi> mhz, so whenever you feel ready to send me a mail =P
<mhz> pygi: also... during yesterday's edubuntu meeting, someone asked "why EHB is not using official repo's" As I am newbie to this team, I really have not other arguments than the "diff yes/no opinions from DocTeam during previous EHB meetings" So, can we know the real arguments?
<mhz> pygi: sure
<pygi> mhz, hm, who asked this again?!!!
<pygi> I settled this already
<pygi> for million times
<mhz> well, let's make it miilion and one
<mhz> :)
<pygi> I refuse :P Anyway, don't worry about that, we WILL be using docteam repos
<mhz> since?
* mhz would love to use bzr-ng
<pygi> well, as soon as we make some substantial "patch-based" contribution
<pygi> doc team uses SVN, IMHO
<pygi> IHMO* or whatever
<mhz> pygi: sorry I am ignorant but.. "pathc-based" contribution? What is that?
<mhz> patch
<pygi> well, we provide patches (which contain our handbook) to the docteam, they commit, and that's it :P
<mhz> aahhh
<mhz> got it
<mhz> so, regular procedure is: John writes a txt, he sends it to pygi or HedgeMage, they make it DocBook, they send it to DocTeam, DocTeam commits?
<pygi> regular procedure is: John get temp svn access, commits it, pygi & hedge check it, put it in DocBook, send a patch to docteam, mdke commits :P
<mhz> clear as water
<mhz> (clean water)
<mhz> pygi: the depth of chapter content depends on the writer?
<pygi> hm, well, if it's not in-depth enough, then we say it, writer must rewrite chapter to accomodate
<mhz> ok
<mhz> will we include screenshots (they are always well received by readers)?
<pygi> ofcourse, always
<mhz> if so, any particular 'regulation'? (size, resolution, etc)
<mhz> I know I have not read current doc and I will as soon as I send you the email to get SVN acces. However, when I worked with designers in Chile, they always work on a 'diagramacion' (in spanish, that is the way we distribuite elements on a page area). There are diff 'arguments' on why to choose this or that 'diagrmacion' depending on what we want the reader to experience. Do we consider 'diagramacion' for EHB?
<mhz> pygi: ?
* mhz is usually afraid his 'offline' period can start at any time :(
<pygi> nop :P
<pygi> sec
* mhz relaxes
* mhz was opening terminal to ping
<pygi> well, we could arrange some size and resolution
<pygi> any proposals?
<mhz> not yet from me until I read/see what is done
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> pygi: and how about 'diagramacion'?
<pygi> translate that to pure english pls? :P
<mhz> "that is the way we distribuite elements on a page area). There are diff 'arguments' on why to choose this or that 'diagrmacion' depending on what we want the reader to experience."
<mhz> Example: two column text, pictures on the right, not left   or    1 column text, pictures on the left
<mhz> it is just that, the way we place elements on a page area
<mhz> pygi: ?
<pygi> hm, well, that will be solved once we go to docbook
<mhz> well, anyways, I have been collecting my notes on installing and some edubuntu settings for less powerful hardware servers
<pygi> for writing purposes, just do however you like
<mhz> so, my guess is I'll be able to start writing for EHB from tuesday, and dedicate about 2 hours a day
<mhz> I have written howtos, speeches and articles, never book chapters
<mhz> so this will be a totally new experience for me
<mhz> I will first focus on those 'lighter desktop' details and once done, I'll be able to take other chapters
<mhz> pygi: IIRC, HedgeMage had suggested the lighter desktop chapter would go as 5th chapter?
<pygi> that's fine mhz 
<pygi> about never writing chapters, don't worry, we are all here to help each other
<mhz> cool
<mhz> and also here to tackle ogra :D
<pygi> mhz, hehe :)
<lloydinho> Hi there! I was reading up on the meeting so far, and I have a question: It does sound like this is going to be a real doc team project (with you being the doc team members working on it) - is that right?
<mhz> pygi: so, anything else we need to discuss for now, besides setting next week meeting date?
<pygi> lloydinho, indeed, why do you ask?
<pygi> mhz, lloydinho is here :P
<mhz> yup
<lloydinho> heh. sorry I've been lurking.. :-P
<lloydinho> If so, I would suggest that you add the Edubuntu Handbook to the other DocTeam projects on the Projects list in the wiki
<lloydinho> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
<pygi> lloydinho, not yet :)
<pygi> There is time for that :)
<lloydinho> That way it will be easier to coordinate the different projects.
<lloydinho> Oh, okay - so you're planning to do it eventually?
<lloydinho> :)
* pygi nods :)
<pygi> anything else we can do for you or can we set meeting date/time?
<lloydinho> cool. Then I won't disturb you any more. Just wanted to make sure... :)
<pygi> lloydinho, you arent disturbing :)
<lloydinho> That's good. I'm looking forward to you guys announcing the Handbook on the Doc Team list, then.. :)
* pygi wonders if lloydinho is doc team member :P
* pygi thinks he probably is :)
<pygi> mhz, poke, date/time? :)
* lloydinho thinks he probably should become one at some point...
* pygi nods :P
<mhz> pygi: same station, same time? 
<pygi> mhz, you awake? :)
<mhz> or rotate?
<pygi> hm, rather rotate
* mhz is opening a gnumeric file where he stated reasonable hours for HedgeMage pygi and mhz
* pygi waits
<mhz> (yeah, a TZ UTC spreadsheet)
* pygi thinks 20UTC should be fine, wednesday
<mhz> pygi: yeah, 20 UTC wednesday..I could make it, thoug it is in the middle of the day...but we'll rotate so I can't complain
<mhz> 20 UTC, Wed
<mhz> oh, pygi can it be Thursdays?
<mhz> wednesdays are edubuntu's
<pygi> hm, sure
<mhz> pygi: so, 20 UTC Thursday
<mhz> HedgeMage: cool?
<pygi>  sure mhz 
<pygi> HedgeMage, she isnt here
<mhz> okis
<mhz> anything else today?
<mhz> RichEd: ?
<pygi> nop, not really
<mhz> ogra: ?
<RichEd> nope ... i'm fine ...
<mhz> pygi: you are +2 or -7 ?
<pygi> mhz, +2
<pygi> HedgeMage is -7
<mhz> okis
<mhz> i had only added the diff not names :)
<jsgotangco> hey guys im online but doing something at the moment will just read the log later
<mhz> jsgotangco: sure
<mhz> pygi: adjurned?
<pygi> mhz, pure english pls? :)
<pygi> but sure, we are done :P
<mhz> pygi: thx
* mhz gets back to #edubuntu
<pygi> raphink, cbx33 :)
<raphink> hi pygi
<pygi> hey raphink 
<raphink> :)
<raphink> how are you?
<pygi> I am fantastic, what about you?:)
<cbx33> hi cbx33 raphink 
<Klaidas> @schedule vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 28 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 23:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 23:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<fouadbajwa> hi ompaul
<chuck> @scedule now
<chuck> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<pygi> @schedule Zagreb
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zagreb: 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<nalioth> when is the next CC meeting?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-28
<mdz> @schedule America/Los_Angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 27 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 13:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 13:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 05:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<zul> hi
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Kamion> evening
<dholbach> hellas
<Riddell> what did we decide about filling in wiki pages?
<Kamion> I believe we'll do it during/after the meeting
<Riddell> from lack of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DistroTeamMeeting20060727 I guess it's not happening before the meeting
<Kamion> probably after so that people aren't off filling in wiki pages instead of paying attention :)
<fabbione> i am here.. i just need to wash my face to wake up
<Kamion> it's DevelTeamMeeting20060727. (gar)
<Kamion> sfllaw: consistent naming would rock, thanks ;)
<Riddell> oh, tsk
<Riddell> I'll move that to DistroTeam to make it consistent
<Kamion> ok, leave a redirect behind though since he announced it on ubuntu-devel-announce
<sfllaw> I was asked to change it to DevelTeam.
<Kamion> oh - can we rename the old ones then?
<sfllaw> OK.  I was too lazy to put in a redirect.
<zul> whoah...the wikihas gone all kubuntu on me
<Kamion> zul: you followed a link to wiki.kubuntu.org ...
<sfllaw> I have no idea what people want to do with the wiki page, though.
<zul> ah...duh..
<Kamion> sfllaw: should be filled in shortly before or shortly after the meeting so that we have a permanent record
<sfllaw> How does this differ from the IRC log?  I'm not a fan of _adding_ the amount of time people spend doing meeting-related stuff.
<Kamion> it's a lot more digestible than the IRC log, IMO
<pitti> hi
<Kamion> we tried filling it out beforehand last week - it was very unpopular and didn't work well
<Mithrandir> 'morning.
<Kamion> but people felt that the result was useful nevertheless
<Kamion> and seriously, it's like thirty seconds to paste it into the wiki :)
<sfllaw> OK.
<sfllaw> Whatever makes you happy.
<Kamion> I think the process is still evolving, so we'll see
<pitti> I missed the discussion beforehand, we paste it into the wiki afterwards?
<fschoep> Good night everyone.
<sfllaw> fschoep: Uhm...
<sfllaw> The meeting is about to start.
<fschoep> Yeah it was kind of a joke, because it's 01:00 here.
<sfllaw> Oh.  Morning!
<fschoep> I'm sorry.
<Kamion> I think that was intended to be "good night" as a greeting
<fschoep> Kamion is right on the ball.
<fabbione> re
<Riddell> "Someone else saved this page while you were editing!"  that could happen a lot
<pitti> Riddell: shouldn't generate a lot of conflicts, though
<kwwii> hi all
<rodarvus> hi guys
<zul> hi rodarvus 
<fschoep> kwwii: Up late :) ?
<rodarvus> hi zul!
<kwwii> fschoep: yeah, no doubt...I should have been in bed a while ago...my son's last day of school is tomorrow and they get out at 10:00 so no sleeping late either :-(
<mdz> good morning folks
<ogra> hmm
<mdz> do we have everyone?
<seb128> hi mdz
* ogra wonders if he got his TZs wrong
<Mithrandir> pong
* pitti yawns a 'yes'
<mdz> BenC is on holiday
<fschoep> kwwii: I feel your pain, same problem here although for a different reason.
<pitti> right, pokering himself rich
* mvo is here
<dholbach> here
<zul> here..
<doko> core dump
<mdz> Kamion,fabbione,Keybuk,sfllaw,rodarvus,Riddell,iwj: ping
<Kamion> here
<rodarvus> mdz, pong
<fabbione> mdz: yeps i am here
<Kamion> (was talking before you arrived, didn't realise you had no scrollback)
<Keybuk> mdz: yes, here
<mdz> Kamion: iwj doesn't seem to be online; could you ring him?
<Riddell> pong
<ogra> doko, stp throwing your peach leftovers around
<ogra> *stop
<Kamion> I understood iwj was sending an update via sfllaw
<Kamion> isn't he travelling?
<ogra> on a marriage iirc
<mdz> oh, right, he's off today
<Kamion> yes he's going to the same wedding tomorrow that I am but travelling earlier
<sfllaw> It's not in my inbox...
<sfllaw> I'll look again.
<mdz> ok, let's get started
<sfllaw> Mmm.  Nope.
<mdz> fschoep requested an early slot, so he's up first
<mdz> fschoep: go
<fschoep> Done:
<fschoep> * wide-theme-selector: contacted bersace to update spec
<fschoep> * write up technical limitations / possibilities for artwork targets based on existing documentations
<fschoep> * community artwork checkpoint one
<fschoep> * sudden vacation
<fschoep> Ongoing:
<fschoep> * ubuntu-art-login-manager, ubuntu-art-login-splash, ubuntu-art-usplash, ubuntu-art-wallpaper: ongoing proposals, made sketches for usplash and GDM theme
<fschoep> * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: identify areas for improvement
<fschoep> * ubuntu-art-complete-highcontrast-icons, art-polish-human-icons: find and document icons which need work
<fschoep> * wide-theme-selector: fix spec, determine feasibility
<fschoep> In the spotlight this week:
<fschoep> * community artwork finishes Propose phase, gather results, summarize and decide direction for artwork production
<Kamion> sfllaw: he phoned me earlier this evening and was definitely intending to send an update. Must have got stuck in a mail queue somewhere. :-(
<mdz> fschoep: art-polish-human-icons has status Unknown; is it started or no?
<mdz> fschoep: also, cd-dvd-artwork has status Needs Infrastructure, but I don't see anything in the status whiteboard which explains what infrastructure it's waiting on
<fschoep> Well, it is started, but not in the sense that icons are being produced. I'm finishing up the list of work.
<mdz> fschoep: I'd call a-p-h-g-t Started then
<fschoep> OK
<kwwii> mdz: on the DVD artwork side, I guess I could add a few questions to that
<kwwii> erm cd-dvd-artwork
<fschoep> For the media artwork - I haven't decided yet if we want to do it with the community.
<kwwii> I will ask a few questions :-)
<mdz> kwwii: note that it's possible that we won't send Edgy CDs via shipit, but rather continue to ship Dapper CDs
<mdz> that's why that item is deprioritized, fwiw
<kwwii> at least we should get a general idea of what kind of graphics are necessary for that before we even start suggesting anything
<Keybuk> mdz: really?  that's, err, interesting
<mdz> Keybuk: it's, err, complicated
<kwwii> mdz: even so, starting a new design idea would be a good idea, I think (if we could pull it off decently)
<mdz> we can chat about it later if you like
<mdz> fschoep: thanks for the update
<mdz> kwwii: next?
<mdz> kwwii: if you aren't prepared, we'll need to come back to you
<mdz> doko: next
<doko> - this week
<doko>   openoffice.org: 2.0.3 packages in edgy and dapper-proposed, still need work before the next knot, next upload will have again native amd64 packages called -experimental.
<doko>   edgy-toolchain: glibc FTBFS with -fstack-protector, beeing worked on; glibc ABI problems with long-double-128 on sparc and powerpc, beeing worked on; backport and test of the -mtune=generic patches for gcc-4.1, build gnat-4.1 from separate sources
<doko>   other: some sync request, mostly python related, ia32-libs* updates
<doko> - next week
<doko>   openoffice.org: 2.0.3 packages for dapper-proposed, so that we can have a decision about including these in the dapper point release.
<doko>   more openoffice.org work
<doko> all other specs: no progress this week
<mdz> doko: I did an emergency upgrade of my desktop to amd64 today; I'm interested in testing the oo.o stuff
<pitti> me too :)
<mdz> doko: earlier today, oo.o upgrade was impossible on i386. is that sorted now?
<doko> mdz: will have to wait for the next upload; will do that tomorrow
<doko> mdz: I know the bugs and fixes, fixed for the next upload
<kwwii> mdz: ready now...
<mdz> ok
<mdz> doko: is that the only fallout from -fstack-protector so far?  should we do a full rebuild test?
<Kamion> yaboot broke too
<pitti> mdz: glibc is special since it does some runtime detection of ssp and uses it for only some files
<mdz> doko: is the python transition complete for main, or do some still remain? if so, is there a list?
<doko> mdz: I would propose to do that one after the -mtune-generic update
<mdz> ok
<pitti> mdz: don't we do rebuild tests anyway?
<doko> mdz: it's difficult to tell, because we didn't remove old packages yet.
<pitti> closer to the release, at least
<doko> python2.4-XXX
<mdz> pitti: yes, but not until later
<Kamion> doko: on the contrary I've removed most of the python ones
<Kamion> I left out a couple where the new versions hadn't built yet
<doko> Kamion: ohh, didn't know. will check tomorrow
<mdz> doko: the ones which are obsolete should show up in anastacia
<Kamion> but I think I got everything else
<mdz> doko: ok, thanks
<mdz> kwwii: next
<Kamion> (haven't removed all other NBS binaries yet, though I've done some; it takes a while)
<Kamion> (if you're being careful anyway)
<kwwii> more and more input coming from the community...lots of time spent on 
<kwwii> irc
<kwwii> hacking on kdm theme. Implemented various ideas using the xml from 
<kwwii> dapper as well (those on the wiki)
<Keybuk> Kamion: I've tended to do them while doing the NEW queue
<kwwii> tweaking icons for qt bzr ui
<kwwii> worked on wallpaper variants (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Kubuntu- 
<kwwii> Edgy-Ideas)
<Keybuk> though that's mostly NBS due to soname change
<kwwii> working on the default color scheme (computing color contrasts, 
<kwwii> tweaking palette)
<kwwii> working on buttons for window deco (and kdm)
<kwwii> ouch
<kwwii> that did not come out how I wanted it, sorry
<mdz> kwwii: try not to word-wrap next time; it'll go faster
<kwwii> mdz: sorry
<mdz> kwwii: thanks
<kwwii> should I repost, line for line?
<mdz> Mithrandir: next
<Mithrandir> sane-installer-keyboard: a fair amount of progress.  Tested the latest version of console-setup from Debian and apart from some minor faff, it appears to work.  Will hand over to Colin before going on vacation.
<mdz> kwwii: no, that's OK
<Mithrandir> live-cd-stacked-filesystems: casper side implemented, server side discussed with Adam.
<Mithrandir> other specs: no progress
<Mithrandir> misc: gotten in touch with the Debian people about casper again, relationship working better now.
<Mithrandir> next week: vacation.  I'll be away until the distro sprint for wedding preparations, wedding and honeymoon.  Colin or Adam (I think) will handle knot-2 and I'll be back for knot-3.
<mdz> kwwii,fschoep: if you're dividing the artwork specs between you, please set Assignee accordingly so it's clear who is doing what
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll mail you about the sane-installer-keyboard stuff since you're gone tomorrow.
<Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: please update s-i-k status in LP
<fschoep> mdz: sounds like a plan, right now we're using ubuntu-art as a general assignee.
<Mithrandir> mdz: willdo
<mdz> Mithrandir: I'd like to hear about the casper relationship outside of the meeting, especially if there's any hope of getting them to participate in revision control properly
<mdz> Kamion: confirm that you'll fill in for knot-2?
<Kamion> mdz: yes
<mdz> ok
<kwwii> mdz: all the specs for Edgy are for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu (and Xubuntu as well, I guess)
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks, and enjoy your break
<Mithrandir> mdz: they seem to do that now; now I just miss cherrypicking in bzr..
<mdz> rodarvus: next
<rodarvus> Done This week:
<rodarvus>   * Finished X.Org libs update to 7.1 (actually, to the latest version available, most of them, past 7.1), Mesa 6.5, xorg-server 1.1.1 (with new ABI)
<rodarvus>   * Updated X.Org input drivers to latest version available (+ accomodate xorg-server ABI bump)
<rodarvus>   * Started X.Org video drivers to latest version available (+ accomodate xorg-server ABI bump)
<rodarvus>   * Started implementation of fully-automatic-swap-server
<rodarvus>   * Work on i810 bugs on LaunchPad (escalated support requests)
<rodarvus>   * Miscelaneous Edubuntu work
<rodarvus> Next week:
<rodarvus>   * Finish update of X.Org video drivers (another 6-8 hours of work)
<rodarvus>   * Finish implementation of fully-automatic-swap-server
<rodarvus>   * Finish catching up with X bugs (primarily based on result from libs + drivers upgrades) (postponed from last week)
<rodarvus> Soon (no timeframe):
<rodarvus>   * Officially start Ubuntu OLPC effort
<rodarvus>   * Investigate other Linux distros (Fedora, OpenSuSE, etc) for nice X.Org patches which are not included in Ubuntu)
<rodarvus> Outsanding issues:
<rodarvus>   * xorg-server (on sparc) and xserver-xorg-input-evie (all archs) FTBFS due to missing includes - check possible update of l-k-h with BenC and fabbione
<rodarvus> Apologies:
<rodarvus>   * For publishing xorg-server before I had all X.Org {input|video} drivers ready to be uploaded - I was unaware of the ABI upgrade (rationale: I tested upgrade locally on two different machines, but as they use binary drivers, they were unnafected by this bug)
<rodarvus> (finally, sorry for the long report, I'll try to trim it next time)
<sfllaw> rodarvus: The xserver-xorg-video-* packages don't upgrade cleanly.  I think they need a Replaces: line in debian/control.
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: have you any thoughts on the "dualhead with two cards broken in dapper" bug?  I'm thinking we should do an xserver-xorg update for it.
<mdz> rodarvus: I think we need for xserver-xorg-core to conflict with the versions of the drivers which use the old ABI in order to resolve the bug I filed
<mdz> oherwise they can get out of sync
<rodarvus> sfllaw, they already have a replaces tag there.
<Kamion> probably Breaks now
<sfllaw> I'm blind.
<Kamion> (now that we have it)
<mdz> rodarvus: it might be a good idea to add a Provides: to xserver-xorg-core for the ABI version, and have the drivers depend on that
<rodarvus> Mithrandir, I think so, lets talk about this after the meeting, or tomorrow
<mdz> Kamion: unless I missed something, only dpkg has it
<Keybuk> mdz: according to the spec, APT isn't supposed to need to know about it
<Kamion> mdz: yes, we should start using it where appropriate though
<Keybuk> other than for prettyness
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: tomorrow's fine.
<rodarvus> mdz, hmm, yeah, I think you're right - I'll update xorg-server later
<rodarvus> (today, I mean)
<sfllaw> rodarvus: Nope.  xserver-xorg-video-all doesn't.
<mdz> Keybuk: hmm, I ought to have a look over that
<rodarvus> mdz, regarding abi version, yes, this is planned too
<mdz> I'd expect the ordering mechanism to need to know about it
<rodarvus> sfllaw, oh, so this one is missing - thanks for the report
<rodarvus> I'll update it too
* rodarvus takes notes
<mdz> rodarvus: ok, thanks
<mdz> sfllaw: next
<sfllaw> Done
<sfllaw>  * OttawaLinuxSymposium 2006
<sfllaw>  * Gave a talk at the UniversityOfWaterloo
<sfllaw> To do
<sfllaw>  * Write up Waterloo experience
<sfllaw>  * Test plans for new features: QuietenGrub, ReviveTaskSel, HomeUserBackup
<sfllaw>  * Bug triaging
<mdz> sfllaw: did you hear something back from the LP folks about getting bug stats?
<Kamion> sfllaw: happy to talk with you early next week about revive-tasksel if you need that
<sfllaw> mdz: That's something I have to write to them about.  I hadn't collected what I wanted to and e-mail was sporadic at the conference.
<sfllaw> Kamion: That would be lovely.
<ogra> the new Ubugtu feature is really nice btw ...
<mdz> sfllaw: thanks
<dholbach> yeah
<mdz> fabbione: next
<zul> sfllaw: if you need help with quietengrub im avaialble as well
<sfllaw> We can thank Seveas for that.
<fabbione> Done
<fabbione>  * ubuntu-edgy-cluster: lot of work on the redhat-cluster-suite again. We have 2
<fabbione>  regressions to fix compared to dapper but generally it doesn't look too bad.
<fabbione>  * finally got pkgsum.u.c up and running (server spec from dapper) so i might up
<fabbione> load the client for edgy when i am back and after retesting it with the new inst
<fabbione> aller.
<fabbione> To do
<fabbione>  * become a father, no really.
<mdz> ogra: what new Ubugtu feature?
<dholbach> mdz: announce of new bugs in #ubuntu-bugs
<mdz> fabbione: fabbione-birthing, Priority: Essential
<fabbione> mdz: ehehhe
<mdz> dholbach: oh, nice
<ogra> mdz, see -devel
<dholbach> it's quite depressing, but nice
<sfllaw> It's more frequent than I thought it'd be.
<sfllaw> And I'm pessimistic.
<sfllaw> fabbione: Congrats!
<mdz> it's about as frequent as I thought it would be
<seb128> mdz: not that nice after reading the chan for some hours and noticing how they come :/
<mdz> sfllaw: should hopefully provide a good entry point for new volunteers
<mdz> seb128: maybe there should be a separate channel
<doko> fabbione: the status is already "implemented"? 
<mdz> seb128: or separate main and universe
<mdz> fabbione: thanks
<mdz> Kamion: next
<seb128> separate main and universe would be nice
<fabbione> thanks guys :)
<Kamion> Done:
<Kamion>   revive-tasksel: Done except for a pending Soyuz patch to make the archive side work (sent to Celso and waiting for deployment). I tested the whole thing today and it seems to be working OK.
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Continued with the big pile of bug-fixing and produced an initial dapper-updates upload.
<Kamion>   ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Some more prodding at the custom disk bar widgets; not getting very far here, so I'm switching to writing the partman debconffilter glue and am making much better progress there. If anyone would like to volunteer to help write custom GTK (and Qt?) widgets to my specifications, that would be great. Doing them in Python where possible is fine.
<Kamion>   libata-for-all-ata-disks: Did most of the required installer changes in conjunction with Scott et al. Some bootloader installer changes may still be needed.
<Kamion> To do:
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Didn't get to #47742 last week, so try again this week.
<Kamion>   ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Finish initial attempt at the partman glue. I'd like to have an initial crude presentation without the disk bar widgets by the end of next week if I can manage it.
<Kamion>   dapper-point-release-process: Do the first Dapper point release. Most of the pieces are in place now; if you know of something that needs to go in, please tell me as soon as possible! (If I can squeeze in some required SPARC fixes, I will.)
<mdz> Kamion: do you have an approximate timeline for the point release?
<Kamion> mdz: I'd like it to end by the middle of next week; if infinity could start on livefs builds tomorrow, that would be lovely
<mdz> Kamion: if you send me an email with a description of what you need for the UI, I think we should be able to get some pygtk muscle with no problem.  perhaps Riddell can suggest someone for the Qt side
<fabbione> Kamion: please stay in contact with Ben for testing these bits. I will ask Davem too to test
<doko> Kamion: I would like to see OOo 2.0.3 in the point release; what would be the latest date for a decision?
<Kamion> doko: anything later than the weekend or so is going to start running us into build time problems
<doko> ok
<Riddell> mdz: I could yes
<Kamion> mdz: testing should be light but focused on known-changed areas, I think
<mdz> if we hope to reduce the size of the dapper->dapper-updates upgrade, we should get oo.o in
<Kamion> we have some reasonable idea of what's been changed as far as the live CD goes
<Kamion> mdz: UI> OK, I can do that on Monday
<mdz> sfllaw: can you help Kamion with a test plan for known-changed stuff and regression tests?
<Kamion> fabbione: ok, thanks
<mdz> Kamion: please ask Adam about the ordering stuff for the point release as well; I assume that's pretty straightforward to do and should be quite safe
<Kamion> ok
<Kamion> is Adam on holiday?
<mdz> he couldn't make this meeting
<mdz> but he'll be in touch
<Kamion> ok, I'll mail him
<mdz> is BenC doing the kernel side of libata-for-all-ata-disks?
<Kamion> doko: have you had reasonable testing of the packages in dapper-proposed so far?
<Keybuk> it's done, no?
<Keybuk> well, other than the bootloader dep bit
<mdz> Keybuk: I thought when it was done, ATA disks would become /dev/sd* devices
<Keybuk> mdz: vi /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-pata
<Keybuk> mdz: adjust to taste
<doko> Kamion: did run the qa-tools on it; tested it except upgrades ... :-/
<mdz> Keybuk: are we not going to throw the switch and use them by default?
<Keybuk> mdz: yeah, that switch is in module-init-tools though -- probably need yaboot and $ia64bootloader to be done first ;)
<doko> Kamion: i386 and amd64 (i386) only, no powerpc and sparc testing
<mdz> Keybuk: ok
<mdz> Kamion: thanks
<mdz> mvo: next
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - general catchup after my vacation (mail, specs, pkgs)
<mvo> - apt work:
<mvo>   * automatic-dependency-removal bugfixing
<mvo>   * fix some apt-ftparchive breakage 
<mvo>   * catchup with the deity list and various bugfixes
<mvo>   * work on the ddtp branch (bugfixes, added support to synaptic)
<mvo>   * sha256 support branch created that checks sha256 instead of md5 for all authentication (needs infrastructure support)
<mvo> - gnome-app-install:
<mvo>   * better support for packages that are not available on all architectures
<mvo>   * updated edgy desktop files
<mvo>   * added popcon information to the desktop files
<mvo> - some work with pitti on the automatic crash reports spec (gui, update-notifier detects crashreports and tell the user about them)
<mvo> - some work on the smartpm spec (upgraded, pkg split)
<mvo> - added support in software-properties for the "easy-popcon participation" spec
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - work on the gnome-app-install desktop file caching/speedu
<mvo> - look into what aptitudes needs to natively work with the new apt auto-remove
<mvo> - work on a custom upload format for launchpad and the package description translations
<mvo> - see what my SoC student is doing
* mvo apologizes that it is a bit long this time
<mdz> mvo: are you mostly caught up from when you were away?
<mvo> mdz: mostly, my bug backlog is terrible
<Riddell> mvo: I'll take a look at the python konsole patch tomorrow, should be great if it works
<mdz> mvo: ok, thanks
<mdz> Riddell: next
<mvo> Riddell: it should work, it needs a bit of love most likely to fully suport the methods of the console
<mvo> s/console/konsole/
<Riddell> done: kubuntu-printer-sharing, KDE 3.5.4 (no problems, will be requesting UVF exception)
<Riddell> blocked: kdepim needing some more main inclusion reviews.  backports
<Riddell> next week: langpacks-desktopfiles-kde, knot 2
<mdz> mvo: (I've added simple-popcon-participation as an edgy target)
<mvo> mdz: thanks, that is fine
<pitti> Riddell: reviews> argh, yes; I shall find some time tomorrow to process them
<mdz> Riddell: please make a pass over anastacia and check the demotions as well
<Riddell> mdz: ok
<mdz> pitti: maybe we should talk about sharing main inclusion reviews with jbailey?
<pitti> ++ :)
<mdz> pitti: if the load is high
<mdz> pitti: ok, please send a mail to him and me
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<pitti> well, it's not too bad
<mdz> zul: next
<zul> done: uploaded xen-3.0 xen-source-2.6.16, kernel-security stuff
<zul> todo: more kernel security, xen on amd64, grub updates, bug triaging
<mdz> zul: is xen expected to stay at .16 for edgy?
<zul> yes..
<pitti> zul: do you get along with the new tracking stuff?
<mdz> zul: is there a howto anywhere for how to set it up and play?
<zul> pitti: yes im find with it
<zul> mdz: i have a page on the wiki
<mdz> zul: new grub seems to be working well for me all around
<zul> i havent had any complaints yet
<zul> or havent seen any either
<mdz> zul: a message to -devel-announce with a pointer to the instructions and a request for testing would be good
<zul> ok..sounds good
<mdz> ok
<mdz> zul: thanks
<mdz> seb128: next
<seb128> Done:
<seb128> - GNOME 2.15.90
<seb128> - bug triage
<seb128> - added an option to network-admin to activate avahi
<seb128> .
<seb128> To do:
<seb128> - mails catching up
<seb128> - catching up with SoC projects are doing
<seb128> - lot and lot of bugs to triage
<seb128> - work on the list of desktop fixes I've noted for dapper-updates and upload some of them
<seb128> - look at GNOME 2.14.3 updates and what should be uploaded to dappers-updates from it (I still have some 2.14.2 updates on my list too, I gave them some time to get feedback from Debian and upstream before updating) 
<mdz> seb128: ok, I'll watch for the dapper-updates reviews
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<mdz> dholbach: next
<dholbach> Done
<dholbach>     * GNOME 2.15.90
<dholbach>     * uploaded most galago bits to the archive, need to try beagle with them
<dholbach>     * bug triage
<dholbach>     * ubuntu-artwork split
<dholbach> To do
<dholbach>     * more bug triage
<dholbach>     * do changes to icon page
<mdz> dholbach: is the artwork split complete?
<dholbach> yes
<mdz> ok, great
<Keybuk> dholbach: do you think next time you upload NEW stuff, you could check the licences out first?
<dholbach> Keybuk: yes, i try to do better.
<Keybuk> given I've had to reject the same set of packages from you TWICE now
<mdz> speaking of NEW stuff, I graphviz-cairo seems to still be in the queue
<mdz> s/I //
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<mdz> ogra: next
<ogra> * last-week: 
<ogra>  - screensaver transition and some bugfixes
<ogra>  - gnome-power-manager - fiddling with massive upstream codechanges
<ogra>  - finished work on the ppc part of ltsp-daily-image-tarballs (ppc tarballs will be on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-tarballs/ on monday/tuesday and run by cron.daily from then on)
<ogra>  - various bugfixes and small ltsp enhancements (i.e automatically use existing swap partitions on clients, no ssh grief anymore after changing the server IP, popcon support for thin clients in ltsp-build-client)
<ogra>  - moving
<ogra> * next-week:
<ogra>  - setting up ltsp lab
<ogra>  - starting on thinclient-local-devices
<ogra>  - preparing the next knot ?
<ogra>  - starting on student-control-panel-completion
<ogra> * specs: 
<ogra>  - student-control-panel-completion: (waiting for approval)
<ogra>  - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (in progress)
<ogra>  - ltsp-convergence: (no progress)
<ogra>  - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (no progress)
<ogra>  - thinclient-local-devices (waiting for lab setup, starting next week)
<mdz> ogra: we need to get your remaining specs through review and onto the edgy list
<ogra> specs ? 
<ogra> there is only one left 
<mdz> only dhcpd and local-dev are there so far
<ogra> ltsp-convergence is no spec, but we agreed to track it via LP
<mdz> ltsp-daily-image-tarballs is Review
<mdz> wasn't netboot-enhancement marked obsolete?
<ogra> hmm ... its done already and will need a xen setup in the DC
<mdz> xen??
<ogra> you wanted me to monitor it via LP as well
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i cant get root access on the servers :)
<mdz> ogra: it should get approved and targeted for edgy, yes
<mdz> ogra: you don't need root; it should work like the livefs builds
<ogra> so elmo said xen would be the way to go
<mdz> seems like infrastructure overkill
<ogra> i need to be able to mount and umount /proc, to debootstrap stuff and to chroot
<Kamion> uh, unless I'm on crack, the livefs builds run as root on the buildds
<Mithrandir> mdz: the livefs-es quite certainly are built as root.
<mdz> yes
<mdz> build runs as root != ogra has root
<Mithrandir> true
<Kamion> it could be YA buildd special cron job I guess
<ogra> mdz, its fine to run it at home until the infrastructure is ready and elmo is happy
<mdz> ogra: don't let it become another hwdb though; it needs to be in the DC for edgy
<ogra> he said the only opportunities he sees are fakechroot and xen
<mdz> get the details into the spec and it can be reviewed, approved and targeted
<ogra> fakechroot cant handle mounting/unmounting proc and has many other issues
<ogra> ok
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: next
<Keybuk> Done
<Keybuk>  * Teardown: implemented as specified, there will be ongoing work to remove shutdown scripts from packages not installed by default.
<Keybuk>  * LibAtaForAtaDisks: implemented /etc/fstab migration (in volumeid); implemented resume-from-uuid which we forgot in the spec; grub root= migration.
<Keybuk>   - Needs someone else to do other bootloaders (who knows them, and can test better).
<Keybuk>   - Needs someone who knows them to investigate "special filesystems" (LVM, EVMS, RAID, devmapper, etc.).
<Keybuk>   - Probably also needs mount to be patched to use libvolume_id instead of libblkid so it can support uuids from more filesystems.
<Keybuk>  * ReplacementInit: making progress; debating when is the right time to add this to the archive, as it will not be fit to completely replace /sbin/init for a few weeks yet -- but then maybe this is a development release, so people shouldn't need their machine to boot normally, etc.
<Keybuk> To do
<Keybuk>  * Spending the week mostly on ReplacementInit and BootMessageLogging
<mdz> Keybuk: I noticed that the teardown stuff doesn't seem to take effect on upgrades; is that intentional or incompleteness?
<mdz> mount-by-uuid seems to be working well for me all arround
<Kamion> I can probably manage to do yaboot on Monday
<Keybuk> mdz: err, it should take effect
<Keybuk> I certainly tested that
<pitti> Keybuk: init-on-crack> would this break booting so hard to become unconfortably unusable?
<Keybuk> pitti: initially things like runlevels wouldn't work
<pitti> Keybuk: like, switching between 2 and 3? that shouldn't hurt too much
<mdz> Keybuk: hmm, maybe it didn't remove as much stuff as I expected
<pitti> mdz: took effect for me at least
<pitti> mdz: and I didn't remove anything manually
<Keybuk> mdz: it's a whitelist removal remember ... so if you have lots of extra crack outside of ubuntu-desktop installed, those won't be removed yet
<mdz> Keybuk: oh, you only did desktop, not main?
<Keybuk> mdz: right
<fabbione> Keybuk: didn't you use to call them "fabbione filesystems" :P
<Keybuk> see "there will be ongoing work to remove shutdown scripts from packages not installed by default."
<Keybuk> fabbione: I only call them that when you're not in earshot <g>
<fabbione> Keybuk: ROFL
<mdz> Keybuk: ok, thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: it would be nice if update-rc.d just did the right thing
<mdz> pitti: next
<Keybuk> mdz: that would break things
<pitti> Done:
<pitti>  * security updates: php, mysql, firefox, mozilla, thunderbird, heartbeat, ruby1.8, freetype; this took the majority of my time this week
<pitti>  * heavy edgy cups bug fixing and improvements
<pitti>  * prepared cups 1.2.2 for dapper
<pitti>  * gave MOTU school seminar about patching source packages; got great appreciation
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports:
<Kamion> it would also be nice if update-rc.d could do the removals rather than having to do rm -f; I got a bug in Debian from a file-rc user about that
<pitti>   * completed packaging of the backend
<mdz> Keybuk: I don't see a problem with following the "if you didn't change it from the defaults, we update your config" approach
<pitti>   * created a reasonably usable GTK frontend (thanks to mvo for his suggestions and help!), uploaded new version
<pitti>   * backend is BLOCKED: needs changed kernel implementation of crash dump helper calling
<pitti>  * finally caught up on bug mail
<pitti>  * looked at the mysterious Heisenbug'ish apt-ftparchive failure on the daily langpacks several times, stared at straces, etc; I have absolutely no clue about this; help greatly appreciated
<mdz> Kamion: that's what I meant
<pitti> To Do:
<pitti>  * talk with infinity about deploying pkg-create-dbgsym (so that I can watch FTBFSes caused by this and fix them)
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports: fix some bugs, some improvements, discuss Qt frontend with KDE guys; find some people to HIGify my crappy UI design :)
<pitti>  * more pending security updates
<pitti>  * interview security engineer applicants
<pitti> (sorry, long vehicle, but it was a busy week)
<Keybuk> mdz: agree
<mdz> Keybuk: by DTRT I mean update the symlinks on upgrades if they haven't been touched
<Keybuk> but *-rc.d are broken by design anyway *sigh*
<mdz> it's silly to have to modify maintainer scripts for that
<mvo> pitti: what is this about apt-ftparchive? can we talk about this off-meeting?
<mdz> pitti: is the MOTU school stuff published in UWN?  please submit it if it isn't there already
<mdz> a link to the log or something
<mdz> maybe encourage somebody to write it up as a tutorial
<mdz> pitti: is the kernel bit a BenC item?
<pitti> mvo: tomorrow? I'd appreciate that
<pitti> mdz: yes
<dholbach> mdz: LaserJock already volunteered
<mdz> pitti: ok, he'll be back Monday
<pitti> mdz: uwn> not yet submitted, will do
<mvo> pitti: sure
<pitti> mdz: it's already a wiki page
<mdz> pitti: great
<pitti> I'll brush it up a little bit
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<mdz> have I missed anyone?
* dholbach hugs pitti
<ogra> LaserJock is currently looking for stuff he can add to the packaging guide :)
<mdz> speaking of UWN, it'd be a good idea to add an "edgy update" section and for all of us to add bits there as interesting things land
<ogra> so the motu school stuff will show up there in some form
<Riddell> UWN seems to still be in the mailman queue from last week
<Riddell> is someone taking over from jdub on the mailing lists?
<mdz> Riddell: gar, I added matt galvin to the whitelist so he wouldn't get moderated
<Keybuk> Riddell: which mailing lists?
<Riddell> Keybuk: ubuntu-news in this case
<mdz> have done the same for whomever sent #7 now
<mdz> I'm not taking over but I have privileges to clean up messes
<mdz> mako is the moderator of that list, from back when he did traffic
<Burgwork> mdz, I can take over the mailing list
<Burgwork> lists, rather
<mdz> Burgwork: done and done
<mdz> Burgwork: email address?
<Burgwork> corey.burger@gmail.com
<Amaranth> woohoo
<mdz> Burgwork: preferably your ubuntu.com address
<Burgwork> corey.burger@ubuntu.com
<mdz> changed
<mdz> ok, out of time
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mdz> adjourned
<Mithrandir> 'night.
<dholbach> thanks everyone
<mdz> good night
<dholbach> good night
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<seb128> night
<rodarvus> good night
<mvo> night
<pitti> thanks all
<pitti> sleep well everyone
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-29
<shawarma> @schdule copenhagen
<shawarma> @schedule copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
* lilo wonders when the next community council meeting will be :)
<tkjacobsen> @schedule copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-30
<[Nirvana] > @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 16:00: Technical Board
<imbrandon> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board
<imbrandon> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 01 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 15:00: Technical Board
<blatt> ola
<blatt> nunca usei irc
<blatt> alguem pode me dizer se no estou cometendo alguma incovenincia?
<blatt> alguem est vendo o q escrevo????
<blatt> ???
<azeem> blatt: this is an english channel
<blatt> oh, so sorry
<blatt> i am apologizes
<blatt> i dont speak english
<blatt> bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-23
<shahab_sh> hi everyone
<shahab_sh> i have a question about ubuntu packages and repositories
<shahab_sh> anybody can help me plz?
<Hobbsee> try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-motu
<shahab_sh> ok i go there thanx
<luisbg> the community council meeting is still not scheduled?
<gnomefreak> no
<luisbg> gnomefreak, :(
<luisbg> I added myself to become an ubuntero two weeks ago
<luisbg> waiting for the moment
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-24
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 24 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 14:00: MOTU Team | 31 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 31 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
<zul> hello
<BenC> ok, hello everyone
<BenC> This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team meeting, our agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<BenC> Unfortunately, Kyle and Tim are at UbuntuLive and wont be attending, which shortens our agenda quite a bit
<BenC> A few highlights of recent things we've been working on include UME kernel (amitk), and liveCD memory issues (pkl)
<BenC> amitk: would you care to elaborate on some of the work you're doing with UME, and plans for power management improvements?
<BenC> ah, amit has lost connection :)
<BenC> While he's regaining that connection...any questions from community folks?
<zul> not me
<zul> I didnt prepare anything at least
<BenC> this is going to be a short meeting, so we'll have time for this sort of thing :)
<zul> oh yeah ill try to get to vserver this week what about openvz?
<ScottK> Would anyone be willing to work on kernel bug triage while we wait?
<BenC> zul: openvz looks like it may miss the gutsy release, but we are discussing possibilities with them
<zul> ok
<BenC> they are still based on 2.6.20 kernel, and the reject list is huge against 2.6.22
<zul> and im not touching it ;)
<amitk_> I dropped out...
<BenC> ScottK: you're more than welcome to do that at any time :)
<BenC> amitk: saw that on the other server...we were just discussing some open topics, but I had wondered if you wanted to give an update on UME and/or power savings work in gutsy
<ScottK> BenC: Unfortunately for me, when it comes to the kernel, I'm more of a triagee than a triager.
<BenC> ScottK: heh, a good time for that is bug days, in which we'll have a kernel team person actively helping and working on kernel bugs
<ScottK> Sure.  Just thought maybe it would be a target of opportunity while waiting.  No problem.
<amitk_> nothing big really - UME kernels seem to work on the menlow platform
<amitk_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/power-management-in-ubuntu has been modified to be more focused for gutsy
<amitk_> and I am now working on splitting up the test cases for laptop-testing group in order to revive it
<BenC> excellent, the laptop testing sounds really promising
<BenC> amitk: have you contacted heno about the test infrastructure yet?
<amitk_> no I haven't. I will do that right away
<BenC> hopefully they've been working on the backend already, and it will just be a matter of plugging in the explanations and reporting procedures that you come up with
<BenC> pkl_: you've been tasked with livecd memory usage problems, and with virtualization (mainly xen)...how's that coming?
<amitk_> I would also like to put out a call for volunteers to do some powertop hacking (www.linuxpowertop.org)
<pkl_> BenC: currently suspended, looking at the critical #126964 bug.
<pkl_> That's the liveCD corruption and hang bug.
<BenC> ah, right
<pkl_> The hang I traced last week to a race I put into Squashfs in April.  Fixed.
<BenC> been able to point the blame at anything specific yet?
<BenC> good, nice work
<pkl_> The corruption bug is much rarer, but very nasty.
<pkl_> Unfortunately the available debug info proved impossible to track this down.
<BenC> pkl_: would this benefit from crashdump?
<BenC> I could probably write up something, and create an ISO which can handle crashdumps capturing
<pkl_> I have put in a lot more non-invasive (i.e. no spewing rubbish to dmesg) logging via a psedo file (debugfs), and got some good debug info yesterday,
<pkl_> I believe I know the execeptional set of circumstances which cause the bug.  It looks like an undiscovered race condition in the Squashfs fragment cache code.
<BenC> ok, if you need more extensive testing, would be good to talk heno about putting out a call for that
<BenC> otherwise, keep up the good work you're already doing
<pkl_> Debugging is currently ongoing.
<pkl_> Yeah, I've been up to 6am most nights..
<pkl_> As it's Squashfs I have a vested interest in fixing it, and a certain responsibility :)
<BenC> pkl_: sleep becomes a luxury at times :)
<BenC> Well, unless there's some other topics people want discussed, this meeting is at an end
<BenC> I'll give a short pause from the chair...
<BenC> And, that's it folks :)
<BenC> thanks everyone, have a good week and so you all in two weeks for the next meeting
<amitk_> bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 31 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 31 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Meyvn> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 25 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 12:00: MOTU Team | 31 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 31 Jul 19:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-25
<klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<klaidas> :|
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 25 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 23:00: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 15:00: MOTU Team | 31 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 31 Jul 22:00: Technical Board
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-21
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<mdz> can anyone tell me where to find MootBot output?
<mdz> it didn't give me a URL, and the old location of http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ is 403
<gnomefreak> mdz: last i heard it wasnt posting to server
<gnomefreak> they were working on getting a server IIRC
<mdz> gnomefreak: so there's no way to get the log?
<Hobbsee> maybe it can go on the same server ubottu was supposed to eventually go to...
<gnomefreak> mdz: i assume you are looking for minutes
<gnomefreak> mdz: a couple weeks ago no there wasnt
<gnomefreak> mdz: talk to seeker for most up to date info
<mdz> gnomefreak: thanks
<gnomefreak> mdz: no problem
<mdz> I remember there was some shuffling around about the hosting, but I thought it was sorted
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Website Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
<emgent> @schedule Rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Jul 13:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 17:00:  Server Team | 22 Jul 20:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 23:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 19:00: QA Team
<stgraber> @schedule UTC
<ubottu> stgraber: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 Jul 11:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00: QA Team
<nellery> @schedule PST
<ubottu> nellery: Error: Unknown timezone: PST - Full list: http://tinyurl.com/4vyvp8
<nellery> @schedule Vancouver
<ubottu> nellery: Schedule for America/Vancouver: 22 Jul 04:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 08:00:  Server Team | 22 Jul 11:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 13:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 14:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 10:00: QA Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-22
<pwnguin> @schedule Chicago
<ubottu> pwnguin: Schedule for America/Chicago: 22 Jul 06:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 10:00:  Server Team | 22 Jul 13:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 16:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 12:00: QA Team
<Awsoonn> @schedule detroit
<ubottu> Awsoonn: Schedule for America/Detroit: 22 Jul 07:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 11:00:  Server Team | 22 Jul 14:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 17:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 13:00: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
<Belutz> hi iang, hi mdamt
<amachu> Belutz: elkbuntu: zakame: TheMuso: lifeless : Hi
<Belutz> hi amachu
<amachu> persia & zakame ?
<amachu> Belutz: Hi
<amachu> lifeless: Belutz: elkbuntu: amachu : four of us here
<mdamt> !Hola!
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about hola!
<iang> hoi!
<amachu> elkbuntu: ping!
<amachu> lifeless: hi
<amachu> Belutz: We need to have quorum
<amachu> appers you and me alone are active now
<Belutz> yes
<Belutz> amachu, should we wait?
<amachu> mdamt: iang: Welcome! we need to have quorum of four to start
<amachu> Belutz: yes..
<iang> ok :)
<Belutz> amachu, ok, today i have a lot of time :)
<amachu> we need to have four out of seven atleast
<mdamt> Okey dokey.
<amachu> lets wait for some more time
<amachu> lifeless: elkbuntu: hi
<udienz-> hellow...
<amachu> hi
<udienz-> hi amachu
<ramadas> lets wait till 11.00 UTC and decide
<Belutz> amachu, I think we should reschedule the meeting
<Belutz> almost 30 minutes passed :)
<amachu> Belutz: Yes
<amachu> its 11.30 UTC
<amachu> lifeless: elkbuntu :
<amachu> ?
<amachu> iang: mdamt : Hi
<Belutz> amachu, the next meeting would be on August 5th ?
<mdamt> Yes.
<iang> hi
<amachu> on 29
<iang> next week?
<Belutz> July 29th? ok
<mdamt> I'm unavailable. Iang can go on.
<iang> fine for me
<amachu> thats fifth tuesday
<amachu> Belutz: yes.
<Belutz> amachu, if I can't make it next week, it's +1 from me for both of them :)
<Belutz> amachu, i'll write it in their wiki page
<amachu> iang: mdamt : thank you both for coming..
<amachu> Belutz: ok fine
<mdamt> Belutz: Thanks.
<iang> thanks belutz :)
<amachu> iang: mdamt : I looked at the wiki and I would like to see more into it
<Belutz> mdamt, iang, I'm the one who should thanking you guys :)
<amachu> iang: mdamt : there?
<mdamt> Yes.
<iang> yes?
<amachu> more references & links that can prove both of your contributions
<amachu> my 2 cents, I thought of sharing
<mdamt> Right, I thought I've put links in most of them already.
<iang> ok.. i'll check mine again..
<amachu> mdamt : based on experience board would ask for more, specific things that could validate your application
<mdamt> Ok.
<amachu> fine then.. anything else to share?
<amachu> i apologise for any incovenience caused
<Belutz> amachu, thanks :)
<iang> no problemo :)
<mdamt> Thanks anyway!
<iang> thanks
<amachu> Belutz: Thank You.
<Belutz> amachu, no worries :)
<amachu> mdamt: iang: thanks for participating
<amachu> see you all next week.
<amachu> :-)
<amachu> elkbuntu: lifeless ??
<jussi01> @now gmt
<ubottu> jussi01: Current time in Etc/GMT: July 22 2008, 12:29:19 - Current meeting: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Jul 17:00:  Server Team | 22 Jul 20:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 23:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 19:00: QA Team | 24 Jul 00:00: Platform Team
<ScottK-laptop> @now
<ubottu> ScottK-laptop: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 22 2008, 14:07:08 - Next meeting: Server Team in 52 minutes
<lukehasnoname> I'm still perplexed by the fact that our London offices are running 6 hours ahead of us, but this is 5 hours ahead
<ScottK-laptop> This is UTC.  What's perplexing about that?
<lukehasnoname> hold on
<lukehasnoname> mhm.... I thought London was UTC
<lukehasnoname> but apprentrly not
<tacone> hello all
<tacone> brb
<emgent> hello there.
<ivoks> hi
<ScottK-laptop> lukehasnoname: Nope.  Not in the summer.
<ScottK-laptop> Hello ivoks and emgent.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<sommer> hey all
<lukehasnoname> morn
<mathiaz> hello all !
<sommer> o//
<Koon> o/
<zul> hello
<tacone> hello
<kirkland> howdy
<mathiaz> let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> The previous meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080715
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Add 'status' action to server init scripts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Add 'status' action to server init scripts
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^ ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: howdy, yessir
<mathiaz> kirkland: I've noticed you've generated a first list of init scripts
<kirkland> mathiaz: Right, so Debian has accepted, in toto, the status_of_proc() functionality, and we've merged the updated lsb-base package into Intrepid
<mathiaz> kirkland: however this list should be trimmed as some ot them don't need to have status action added to them
<kirkland> mathiaz: and I did generate a rough list of init scripts, as found in default installs of Intrepid server/ubuntu-desktop/kubuntu/xubuntu
<kirkland> mathiaz: that's absolutely true.  i'm hoping we can leverage the nature of the wiki to make that happen.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'd encourage people to add/remove scripts to/from that page, as they review it
<ScottK2> mathiaz: I have to go to a meeting very shortly.  I'd appreciate just a minute or two early in the meeting before I have to go.
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'd filter the list and reduce it to the package that have a daemon running so that the status_of_proc can be used in there
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'd like to see links to bug numbers, if and when people work on those
<mathiaz> ScottK2: go ahead
<ScottK2> Thanks
<kirkland> mathiaz: cool, would you do the first pass of filtering, then?
<ScottK2> A lot of people said they wanted clamav/spamassassin in Main.
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll find someone to do it - I've got a couple of mentoring requests
<ScottK2> Looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavSpamassassinInMain, it's been sommer and I so far doing the work.
 * ScottK2 does not have time to do all these MIR due to $WORK, so this is a call (again) for people who want this to invest some time in it.
<ScottK2> MIR are not that hard to do and I'll be glad to answer questions/review stuff.
<ScottK2> mathiaz: That's it.
<mathiaz> ScottK2: ok - great !
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to ask prospective mentors to trim down the list of init scripts.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to ask prospective mentors to trim down the list of init scripts.
<ivoks> ok, i'll help, but don't expect miracles... me does the $WORK too :D
<sommer> and I should have more time this week/weekend for some mir action
<mathiaz> ivoks: are you refering to MIR or status init script ?
<ivoks> MIR
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok.
<mathiaz> I'll mention the MIR in the minutes again
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Integration of SASL and Postfix
<MootBot> New Topic:  Integration of SASL and Postfix
<mathiaz> ivoks: did you have time to discuss the issues with lamont ?
<ivoks> i've sent an email, but didn't get response
<lamont> mathiaz: I expect he has, I haven't had time...
<ScottK2> ivoks: Thanks.
<mathiaz> ivoks: lamont ok - great
<mathiaz> That's all from the last meeting - anyone wants to add something ?
<lamont> ivoks: I expect I'll have time tomorrow evening or so to at least look at thing
<lamont> s
<ivoks> lamont: ok
<mathiaz> emgent: around ?
<tacone> mathiaz: no
<tacone> I am here to talk in his place.
<mathiaz> tacone: are you here for rapache ?
<tacone> he will try to get here later if he can
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Rapache presentation and discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rapache presentation and discussion
<tacone> omg, already, ok
<mathiaz> tacone: we can postpone if you want
<tacone> no no:)
<tacone> after the UDS emgent came back and told me that
<tacone> people felt the need to have more server-related GUIs
<tacone> from that born rapache.
<tacone> Rapache is an Apache configurator gui
<tacone> I am unsure about the scope of it. If it falls in ubuntu-server or not, because is a desktop application.
<tacone> our goal is to lower the entry barrier for former windows system administrators used to configure IIS with a program
<mathiaz> tacone: does it support administrating remote servers ?
<mathiaz> tacone: it seems that it's requires a desktop environment to run it
<tacone> mathiaz: currently NOT. that's in the road map as a very high priority
<tacone> that's a nice point, let me elaborate
<mathiaz> tacone: screen shots somewhere ?
<tacone> LOL
<tacone> too fast :)
<emgent> hello
<mathiaz> tacone: I don't see any on the rapache website
<mathiaz> http://www.rapache.org/
<tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-main.png
<tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-edit-window.png
<tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-modules.png
<emgent> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/rapache
<tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-syntax-highlightining.png
<tacone> I am not sure also how much time I have to talk here, so feel free to stop or warm at any time
<tacone> we put together a blueprint: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyGuiApacheSetup
<mathiaz> tacone: ok
<tacone> Supporting remote servers: that's in the roadmap but not trivial
<ivoks> does augeas support remote configuration?
<tacone> so we just started on localhost
<emgent> true, anyway 0.5. version is available on rapache-devel PPA
<ivoks> if yes, then moving to augeas would solve that problem :)
<tacone> ivoks: not on my knowledge
<mathiaz> tacone: ok - great - I guess most of us are server people - so we're more interested in non-GUI environment
<tacone> we thought about augeas but we'd like to see how things develop with it.
<mathiaz> ivoks: not that know of
<emgent> https://launchpad.net/~rapache-devel/+archive
<soren> I think Func is meant to add remoteness to augeas. I'm not sure, though.
<mathiaz> tacone: ok - seems like a good start - you'd probably need to update the wiki page
<tacone> mathiaz: actually I am not sure were to talk about rapache. in ubuntu-server, ubuntu-desktop, lol
<tacone> mathiaz: we have too much stuff around, it's falling outdated :-)
<mathiaz> tacone: it seems that this is a case where you can discuss on both channels
<mathiaz> tacone: probably ubuntu-server is a good place to start with
<tacone> mathiaz: we're starting with ubuntu-server :)
<ivoks> right, we'll help on backend :)
<mathiaz> tacone: that's where you'll find most of your users
<tacone> nice.
<tacone> well rapache won't require sysadmin to install anything on remote servers
<mathiaz> anything else on rapache ?
<tacone> but an ssh certificate, I think that could be quite valuable
<tacone> as not every sysadmin wants to have estraneous programs on their machine
<tacone> I guess we're done for now, unless you have more questions
<mathiaz> tacone: not for me
<tacone> emgent: around ? anything other to say ?
<mathiaz> tacone: thanks for you presentation ! keep up the good work
<tacone> as the last thing one question from me
<tacone> where should we continue the discussion ? shall we talk with ubuntu-desktop people ?
<mathiaz> tacone: I think #ubuntu-server is the best place to keep discussing
<mathiaz> tacone: that's where you'll find most of your end-users
<tacone> nice, you'll see us there often then :)
<mathiaz> let's move on
<tacone> thank you very much everyone for listening.
<mathiaz> tacone: you're welcome :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the specification listed on the  Roadmap.
<Moot2> New Topic:  Review progress made on the specification listed on the  Roadmap.
<mathiaz> Our roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: what's going on this front ?
<sommer> mathiaz: good, almost have Kerberos wrapped up
<Moot2> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: anything that could be reviewed/tested ?
<mathiaz> sommer: I hadn't had time to look into the bzr changes
<sommer> samba stuff, definitely needs some review
<mathiaz> sommer: it's still on my todo list
<mathiaz> sommer: ok
<sommer> mathiaz: cool, there's still time
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
<Moot2> New Topic:  Ubuntu VM builder
<mathiaz> soren: ^ ?
<soren> Ah, yes.
<soren> I'm working on a complete rewrite in Python.
<soren> This is mainly to be able to use it as more of a library (to be able to embed it in various things).
<soren> Another side effect is that we can add lots more logic to it.
<soren> Of course, we could have done that in bash too, but it's loads easier in Python.
<ivoks> and more cool
<soren> It's shaping up rahter nicely, but I'm adding Xen support to it, and that involves changing some core things about the disk handling stuff.
<mathiaz> soren: is there anything ready for more widespread consumption/testing ?
<soren> People are very welcome to grab the code off of launchpad and play around with it. It should be able to build dapper, feisty, gutsy, hardy, and intrepid, kvm VM's.
<soren> ...everything else will be added over the next couple of weeks.
<mathiaz> soren: is there a package in intrepid and/or hardy ?
<mathiaz> soren: some documentation somewhere ?
<soren> Not right now, no.
<soren> I'll probably upload it to Intrepid as a new package, and then yank the old one out when they're on par.
<macd> Am I too late for server?
<mathiaz> soren: ok - once there is some basic documentation written, testing by other can start
<soren> The cli is rather self-documenting, I think.
<mathiaz> macd: not really - we're just hald-way through
<soren> Documentation contributions are also very, very welcome :)
<macd> mathiaz, great I just want to hit on the ruby stuff going on at the end if thats ok
<mathiaz> soren: at least a README file or Getting started even if it's 10 lines
<soren> Good point.
<mathiaz> macd: ok - I'll add a point to the agenda
<macd> ty
<soren> I'll whip something up.
<mathiaz> soren: just so that people can get started with it and play around
<soren> Right.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to write a short README file to help people get started with ubuntu-vm-builder
<MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to write a short README file to help people get started with ubuntu-vm-builder
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
<mathiaz> I'
<soren> You'
<soren> :p
<mathiaz> I worked on that during last week
<mathiaz> I got a patch that supports new install and upgrade and sent it to the debian maintainers
<mathiaz> I'm waiting for feedback on it
<mathiaz> Once it's there, it should be easier to implement things like schema/module loading
<mathiaz> I may look into FreeIPA
<mathiaz> to see if we can get something in ubuntu
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<MootBot> New Topic:  Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<mathiaz> kirkland: ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I have a test that works on KVMs
<kirkland> mathiaz: s/test/patch/
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm going to test on real hardware, now that I'm back home, and submit
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's more to be done in the installer
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you know to whom it should be submit for review ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: kees said kees -> cjwatson -> evand
<kirkland> mathiaz: the first in the series of patches is relatively minor
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'll attach it to the bug today, assuming the real-hw test goes as expected.
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok. Is it worth asking for more testing  now ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: or we'd better wait for the inclusion in intrepid ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: well, i have a pkg in my PPA
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm certainly open to any feedback on that (mdadm)
<mathiaz> kirkland: what is required to do testing ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: huah...  well, in KVM it's extraordinarily complicated
<soren> why?
<kirkland> mathiaz: unless soren has some magic to make that easier
<mathiaz> kirkland: let's assume on real hw then
<kirkland> mathiaz: really hardware, you just need 2 physical disks (can be flash media > 1GB)
<kirkland> soren: i'm open to advice as to providing a new KVM machine to-be-installed with 2 physical disks from the start
<kirkland> soren: at least through virt-manager, that's not easy
<kirkland> soren: so for my testing, i've been doing an install with 1 machine, raiding two partitions on the same disk together
<soren> kirkland: Well, it's a GUI, so there's a lot of clicking to do anything.. :) Is it more difficult than expected?
<kirkland> soren: then after install, adding another physical disk to the VM, and then to the RAID
<kirkland> soren: and then, I have a setup I can work with
<mathiaz> kirkland: so you'd install intrepid on a two-disk system that boots from a raid array on /, install your ppa adm package, poweroff, remove one disk, power on and it should still be booting ?
<soren> Huh?
<soren> Oh, because you can't add two disks to begin with?
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes assuming you have either a) edited the config file to tell it to do so, or b) pass it the appropriate kernel option
<soren> I highly recommend not using virt-manager for the initial install then. :)
<kirkland> soren: right...  i'd like to start off an install with two .img disks
<mathiaz> soren: kirkland: could you figure out a way to simplify the testing instructions using KVM ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: the default behavior should be as it always has...  on missing disk, drop to initramfs prompt
<stgraber> kvm -hda blah.img -hdb blah1.img -m 512 -cdrom ubuntu-server.iso
<mathiaz> kirkland: could you add some testing instructions to the wiki page ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> kirkland: great
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm actually a little slammed at the moment
<kirkland> mathiaz: but I'll see what I can do
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to update the wiki page BootDegradedRaid with some testing instructions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to update the wiki page BootDegradedRaid with some testing instructions
<kirkland> stgraber: thanks, i'll run with that
<soren> qemu-img create disk1.img 5G && qemu-img create disk2.img && kvm -drive file=disk1.img,if=ide,index=0 -drive file=disk2,fi=ide,index=1 -drive file=intrepid.iso,if=ide,media=cdrom -boot d
<mathiaz> kirkland: well it may not be the best moment then
<soren> Whoops.
<soren> That wasn't supposed to go here :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'm interested in figuring out how to test this thing
<kirkland> soren: that's your login passphrase, right?
<kirkland> :-P
<mathiaz> kirkland: and document it
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay
<soren> kirkland: sssh... don't tell anyone.
<soren> :)
<ivoks> what? where?
<ivoks> :)
<sommer> hah
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] RAILS integration
<MootBot> New Topic:  RAILS integration
<mathiaz> macd: /
<mathiaz> macd: ?
<macd> yes
<macd> sorry, was on another screen
<macd> First off, mod_rails is packaged, mathiaz looked at it, we'll be making those changes as soon as Neil (the packager) gets back form vac.
<macd> mathiaz, we need some notes on REVU/LPP bug for that
<mathiaz> macd: right - I've sent my notes to neil as I wasn't able to login in REVU :/
<macd> and if we could get a few other people looking at it for some more acks, we can be done with that
<macd> mathiaz, your not the only one I cant either
<macd> Weve been talking with the debian packager for ruby/rubygems though its becoming a heated discussion
<mathiaz> macd: yes - are these discussions public ?
<macd> Hes not a rails user at all so he dosnt really understand the paths for gems
<macd> yes on bug #145267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 145267 in libgems-ruby "Add rubygems bin to PATH" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145267
<mathiaz> macd: right - gems are problematic from the distribution POV
<macd> are they ever :/
<macd> In my mind the decision just needs to be made, either we rip gems from  universe, and rails people install from source (which most do) or fix it to behave
<mathiaz> macd: IIUC there a some similar issue with python eggs
<soren> gems to Ruby what Pear is to PHP, right?
<mathiaz> soren: IIUC - yes
<soren> Ok.
<macd> Neil and I have been talking about fixing gems, and having something like apt-build build gems as they become updated
<macd> soren, yes, pretty much
<mathiaz> macd: and CPAN for perl
<soren> macd: So it downloads some source code, builds it and installs it somewhere, right?
<macd> soren, yep
<macd> the problem being the debian gems, and the surce installed gems dont end up in the same place
<mathiaz> macd: it's a general issue with scripting langages - it may be interesting to look at what other langages are doing
<soren> Well, depending on how they designed it, it could be either really easy to shove the compiled stuff somewhere under /var or it could be really, really difficult. :)
<macd> soren, I almost suggested the whole thing just be one package in /opt ;P
 * soren cringes
<ivoks> apt-gem?
<macd> ivoks, thats a long term idea for sure
 * soren wacks ivoks
<macd> but I dont see that being in intrepid ;'P
<macd> Does anyone have any other ideas?
<soren> It's hard to say without knowing more about gems.
<macd> Im about out, short of what I mentioned above with just ripping gems out for now
<macd> soren, you can look at that bug I posted with gems, and it covers it very well
<soren> Why is it a problem that ruby "things" from apt get installed in a different place than the ones isntalled by gems?
<macd> Its seriously just a path
<mathiaz> macd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgems-ruby/+bug/145267 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 145267 in libgems-ruby "Add rubygems bin to PATH" [Low,Confirmed]
<macd> soren, the rails app looks in a specific place
<macd> soren, and there is no way short of creating symlinks that it can look somewhere else
<soren> macd: So add another place to look?
<macd> soren, rails isnt capable of looking in more than one place
<ivoks> jesus...
<macd> thats the caveat that the gems maintainer doesnt seem to grab either
<soren> Fix it.
<Koon> macd: I suppose it could be patched to do it
<soren> :)
<macd> I bet it could, and we filed a bug upstream with rails
<ivoks> all languages support multipath
<macd> but those guys arent budging.
<Koon> we have kinda the same problem with maven, though it's a little worse (it downloads already-built blobs)
<mathiaz> macd: do you have the upstream rails bug url ?
<macd> Most gems are binary already, but some do compile against ruby1.8 or ruby1.9 which presents another problem with debian gems
<macd> mathiaz, take a quick laugh I dont have my bookmarks sync'd
<macd> ;)
<macd> but I'll add it to the rails spec wiki page later today
<soren> macd: Clueless question alert: Google mentions $LOAD_PATH which seems to be a list of places to look for "stuff".
 * soren doesn't know ruby lingo, so "stuff" will have to do.. :)
<mathiaz> macd: great - if you can add links to the relevant ressources on the web that talk about the issue, it would be very helpful to get up-to-speed on the issue
<soren> Why is that variable insufficient?
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubottu> mathiaz: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00: Platform Team
<macd> soren, one sec
<macd> # Add additional load paths for your own custom dirs
<macd>   # config.load_paths += %W( #{RAILS_ROOT}/extras )
<macd> that is for plugins
<mathiaz> Ok - let's move on - as we're running out of time
<soren> And gems are... what?
<soren> Ok, we can talk in #ubuntu-server in a bit.
<persia> soren: It's binaries, not libraries: it's perfectly possible for one gem to depend upon another and run binaries included in the gem depended upon.  This doesn't work in SUDO without mangling /etc/environment, which is not indended for automated modification post-install.
<macd> sure
<macd> persia, thats pretty spot on as to whats happenning
<soren> persia: Oh, things have to be in $PATH, not ruby's library path or whatnot?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<macd> soren, yes, exactly
<mathiaz> Anyone wants to add something ?
<persia> soren: Depending on the gem, possibly both (but I'm not continuing more, given the desire of the chair).
<soren> -> #ubuntu-server
<macd> we can continue in -server in about 20?
<mathiaz> Anyone wants to add something ?
<ivoks> openssl patches
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<ivoks> i've been working on them; only left are proftpd and lighttpd (both universe)
<ivoks> so, this will work, but we would be far better of with disabling sslv2 in openssl
<mathiaz> ivoks: you've started a thread on -devel about removing support for sslv2 in openssl
<mathiaz> ivoks: what's the current situation ?
<ivoks> smaller delta with debian and a sure thing we disabled it everywhere
 * nealmcb1 waves from oscon
<ivoks> there's a proposal that we should really disable sslv2
<ivoks> so, atm, we are waiting for really good argument against that action :)
<ivoks> (disable in openssl)
<ivoks> as it is disabled in NSS and gnutls
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok
<soren> I like that idea, but I'm sort of worried about 3rd party stuff still requiring it.
<ivoks> soren: openssl-sslv2 package in universe?
<soren> That's what I'm thinking. That was a good idea.
<ivoks> we already have packages like that
<zul> im sitting on dovecot and apache patches until we get a resolution
<soren> Built from the same source, so we don't have much of a maintenance overhead.
<ivoks> apache is one example; same source, multiple binaries with different options
<ivoks> zul: there's vsftpd patch too
<zul> ivoks: ah ok
<mathiaz> it may be worth preparing a patch to the openssl package for the -sslv2 option in universe
<ivoks> mathiaz: i'm ready to do that
<mathiaz> ivoks: great - it may help in the discussion: to see the code
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to prepare a patch for the openssl package to disable sslv2
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to prepare a patch for the openssl package to disable sslv2
<ivoks> this is the only right way to do it
<mathiaz> ivoks: thanks for your help
<mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
<mathiaz> [TOPCI] Open Discussion
<ivoks> anyone using redhat-cluster-suite, please report any problems :)
<ivoks> it turns out we have lots of redhat-ism in that package
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<zul> ivoks: not surprising :)
<mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ?
<ivoks> sure
<kirkland> yup
<Koon> ok
<mathiaz> excellent then - see yu all next week here
<mathiaz> keep up the good work
<macd> thanks!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
<soren> 11:16?
 * soren hands ntp to Mootbot
<mathiaz> soren: UTC-5
<soren> UTC-4.92 is more like it
<soren> And that is a bad, bad timezone.
 * soren does not approve
<soren> http://cat.bloctum.com/portalet/files/2007/11/jakob-nielsen.png
<ivoks> soren rulez
 * persia points at the Pacific/Chatham timezone for +12.75 as precedent for such things.
<nxvl> mathiaz: meeting over?
<mathiaz> nxvl: yes
<nxvl> :(
 * nxvl jumps into irclogs.u.c
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<popey> @schedule
<ubottu> popey: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 Jul 18:00: LoCo Council | 22 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team
<nealmcb1> soren: I filed a bug last wee
<nealmcb1> week
<Alibb> @now
<ubottu> Alibb: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 22 2008, 17:43:30 - Next meeting: LoCo Council in 16 minutes
<persia> Cool.  ubottu has a new improved clock!
<Alibb> yeah
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<juliux> popey: JanC effie_jayx boredandblogging wakeup ping;)
<Dark_Shadow> hi
<effie_jayx> juliux,  5 minutes?
<juliux> yep
<popey> pong
 * popey wonders whether to eat beef stew during the meeting or after
 * popey switches off the webcam
<boredandblogging> hehe
<JanC> pong (reading the ML now)
<boredandblogging> jcastro: ping
<jcastro> boredandblogging: pong
 * juliux gets some fish in a few minutes
<boredandblogging> jcastro: think you will be first when we start in a few minutes
<jcastro> I'm ready!
<effie_jayx> 3 mins
<nizarus> 2 mins :p
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  we are going for fixed time or full
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging, ?
<Syntux> 1.5
<boredandblogging> effie_jayx: don't think there is a meeting till 22:00 UTC
<boredandblogging> so if we have a quorum, we can go longer
<popey> heh
<popey> I'm in the one at 22:00 too!
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  great then
<popey> would like a break between if we can
<boredandblogging> popey: the needs of many... :-)
<juliux> popey: are 2min enough for two beers?
<juliux> :-)
<Syntux> 18 to 22! someone should sponsor LCC with free Sauna.
<Rafik> hello all
 * popey has san miguel
<Anis_CHEBBI> hello /all
<nizarus> hi Syntux
<nizarus> hi to all
<Alibb> hi everyone , here we are the tunisian team
<Syntux> Hey nizarus :-)
<boredandblogging> shall we get started?
<nizarus> it's the d day us Syntux :p
<juliux> boredandblogging: will you be the chairman today?
<boredandblogging> sure
<boredandblogging> lets start
<boredandblogging> jcastro: you are up
<Zied_> hello every body
<jcastro> ok!
<Syntux> nizarus, Inshallah you'll make it
<juliux> if you are searching for the agenda pls look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<jcastro> hi everyone, I'm Jorge Castro and I've been tasked in taking on mailing list requests
<jcastro> over the last week I've cleared out most of the queue for mailing list requests
<jcastro> but I have one for ubuntu sri lanka
<nealmcb> o/
<jcastro> where the admin doesn't want to do it anymore, but we can't have it be blank
<jcastro> so I guess I am asking if anyone knows anyone in ubuntu-lk to be administrator?
<popey> can you ask on their list?
<juliux> loco-contacts is also a good place to ask
<jcastro> I had thought of that but wanted to make sure I touch base with you guys first.
<boredandblogging> LoCoTeamList says their are hosting on google groups
<jcastro> to let you know that I'm here and that I'll be asking around LoCo teams for info if I get a strange ticket, etc.
<popey> just to be clear you only do ubuntu lists, not launchpad ones?
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> actually, I decline launchpad ones
 * nealmcb notes that the network at oscon is laggy so he may have some outages.... 
<boredandblogging> locos and ubuntu teams shouldn't have LP lists, right?
<jcastro> and tell them to apply to the rt@ubuntu.com address
<jcastro> correct
<boredandblogging> jcastro: is the ubuntu-arabic one ticket still open?
<jcastro> also, if a loco has fallen through the cracks and still doesn't have a list, you guys can ping/flog me personally to get it approved.
<jcastro> That one got fixed yesterday
 * popey volunteers ofr that one
<jcastro> ...  and there was much rejoicing
<effie_jayx> jcastro,  I think it is important that we explain to them the importance of having the lists hosted @ lists.ubuntu.com. we can then handle the redirection of resources
<jcastro> effie_jayx: well, when they apply @ launchpad I mail them and explain to them that
<jcastro> but if someone could mention that during the LoCo approval process then that would be awesome
<popey> cool, anything else you want to say jcastro ?
<jcastro> nope, that's it! thanks
<Syntux> jcastro, was ubuntu-arabic really fixed?
<juliux> jcastro: i am very happy that mailinglist request are now handle better
<jcastro> Syntux: there were like 3 duplicate tickets, I closed them and approved the one.
<popey> ok, next agenda item..
<boredandblogging> i suggest we do new team approvals
<pleia2> Arc might be napping, but there are a few of us here for the NH situation
<popey> agreed
<juliux> pleia2: but nh situation takes much longer then approving locoteams
<popey> given arc added that after the locoteams
<pleia2> fair enough :)
<boredandblogging> anyone from Macedonia here?
<juliux> pleia2: so we have at the end enough time to discuss nh items;)
<JanC> Arc was awake 15 minutes ago  ã
<boredandblogging> so no one from macedonia
<boredandblogging> Lithuania?
<sirex`> Yes
<Arc> I'm here :-)
<boredandblogging> sirex`: Lithuania?
<sirex`> I'm from Lithuanian LoCo.
<sirex`> Unfortunetly our contact person can't be here. But I try to answor all of your questions.
<juliux> lithuian or macedonia team now?
<sirex`> We have tried to get approved before: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda/20080605
<boredandblogging> right, last time there wasn't enough experience listed on the approval application
<nealmcb> wow - my lag is minutes long - then I see a flood of messages.  last I saw was at 8:33 after the hour
<popey> is one month long enough to gain that experience?
<popey> don't we usually recommend people come back in 3 months?
<sirex`> boredandblogging: now we added more links to event and more details aboult our experience.
<juliux> sirex`: if i compare your application page from the last time with todays page i am very impressed
<boredandblogging> popey: it wasn't that the team didn't have experience, there was just none listed on the approval application
<sirex`> popey: we have experience, but it was nos in our approval wiki.
<juliux> popey: they only for get to document it
<popey> ah
<juliux> popey: they experiences goes back until 2004;)
<juliux> sirex`: btw how can you have a install fest in 2003? in 2003 there was no ubuntu;)
<boredandblogging> sirex`: how are the plans for the Ubucon Baltic going?
<JanC> juliux: they list that under experience with FLOSS before Ubuntu  ã
<sirex`> Well same people started their activity since 2003, but ubuntu just influnced more people.
<juliux> ok
<JanC> it seems like they have an Ubuntu-derived distro that was Debian-derived before
<sirex`> Now we talk with people from other baltic states about Ubuntu Baltic.
<sirex`> Latvias LoCo responded and they like the idea and want to join us.
<sirex`> But everything about Ubuntu Baltic is just in preparation stage.
<juliux> sirex`: do you mean ubucon baltic?
<sirex`> Yes, sorry.
<juliux> sirex`: what are your goals with the ubucon?
<sirex`> Ubucon Baltic will be next even folowing by Ubucon'08: www.ubucon.lt
<popey> sirex`: where do you mostly support new users?  forums, irc, mailing list or real life?
<boredandblogging> how is the progress of GreenPC?
<JanC> sirex`: is "Baltix" an Ubuntu remix (using Ubuntu repositories for most things) or more like Ubuntu is derived from Debian?
<popey> so many questions :)
<sirex`> juliux: it's the most successive event in lithuanian related to ubuntu.
<jcastro>  /win 32
<popey> [fail]
<juliux> sirex`: ok
<sirex`> popey: mostlin in ubuntu.lt forum and IRC. Of course most of our LoCo members installing Ubuntu to friends.
<popey> it's certainly an impressive page
<boredandblogging> +1 from me
<popey> +1
<effie_jayx> good work in documentation
<effie_jayx> +1 from me too
<sirex`> JanC: Baltix just adds things that is needed for Lithuanina country. All our ISP packets ant so on.
<juliux> strong +1 from me
<boredandblogging> JanC: ?
<JanC> +1 from me
<boredandblogging> congrats Lithuania
<popey> well done
<sirex`> Thanks of all +1's
<juliux> congrats
<sirex`> Thanks! :)
<juliux> sirex`: if you need any help with ubucon contact me, i am organising the german one;)
<boredandblogging> Tunisia?
<nizarus> yes
<sirex`> juliux: ok.
<Rafik> yes
<karimfath> yes
<darkwise> yes
<Alibb> yes
<effie_jayx> wow we got quite a crowd here
<nizarus> all tunisians are here :)
<Rafik> ^^ nizarus will answer your questions
<Dark_Shadow> yes
<Anis_CHEBBI> yes
<nizarus> i'm the tunisian team contact
<nizarus> and i will be assisted by other members
<effie_jayx> I see great participation in events
<zied_> hello from tn
<zied_> :)
<effie_jayx> why do you hold SFD events a month later?
<nizarus> effie_jayx, if i remember ther a was a problem to have a local for sfd
<nizarus> in the proposed month
<nizarus> so all FOSS tunisian clubs suggest to do it in october
<juliux> are the meetings regular or do you call them if you need one? are they open for everybody?
<effie_jayx> right... so that's great.. whatever works :D
<nizarus> juliux, we have a regular monthly meetings
<popey> i like the structured approach to your team
<JanC> Alibb: does the "companies relationships group" have contact with many companies about Ubuntu ?
<nizarus> and som extra meeting whe needid
<popey> nizarus: what's the single most important thing your team does, in your opinion?
<juliux> nizarus: how many people attend there?
<Alibb> JanC,  in fact the goal of relation ship is 1. marketing 2. help them tu use ubuntu
<nizarus> popey, we noted that arabic documentation are very poor
<nizarus> popey, so with collaboration with jordanian (syntux) and maroccan we plan
<popey> a good idea
<nizarus> popey, we plan to concentrate our efforts to that
<nizarus> discussion are still open
<popey> that could potentially benefit a lot of people in your area
<boredandblogging> has Tunisia started working with the French Team yet?
<nizarus> yes boredandblogging
<nizarus> we have advenced french team contact
<nizarus> and we talked about the loco twinning concept with french leader
<boredandblogging> what do you plan to do with the French team?
<boredandblogging> twinning, good
<popey> ooo I like the idea of twinning!
<Rafik> !
<nizarus> yes boredandblogging twunning
<nizarus> and sharing documentation
<nizarus> yes Rafik
<juliux> where is huats if we need him;)
<Rafik> I talking with huats the frech lleader about the twinning project, not later than today we began writing the items in wich we can work together
<JanC> what does """Secretary
<JanC> * Federate all the groups to work together in harmony.""" mean ?
<JanC> (in the roadmap)
<nizarus> JanC, Secretary is the head group
<nizarus> we are diveded in 7 groups
<Alibb> JanC, secretary task is to coordinate the ubuntu-tn groups and keep all meeting records
<Rafik> juliux: huats used to be here, I pinged him but with no answer, Im working with him in the twinning project
<JanC> ah, right
<popey> looking good to me, +1
<nizarus> juliux, we pinged huats before this meeting but no response :)
<boredandblogging> +1
<JanC> it looks okay to me too: +1
<effie_jayx> +1 from me
<juliux> looks good for me Ã¼1
<juliux> +1
<juliux> very active team and enough people to run it fine in the future
<boredandblogging> Tunisia: congrats
<nizarus> ok thanks
<nizarus> great
<Rafik> Thank you all
<darkwise> Thanks!
<Alibb> thanks to the council :)
<Anis_CHEBBI> greeaaaat
<Anis_CHEBBI> thanks!!
<nizarus> congrutulation to all members
<zied_> thanks :)
<karimfath> thanks
<effie_jayx> thank you and keep the great work
<popey> well done, keep up the good work
<boredandblogging> looks like Malaysia added themselves today
<nizarus> sure popey
<juliux> boredandblogging: yes 1,5 befor the meeting;)
<darkwise> sure effie_jayx
<JanC> heh, they weren't there an hour before the meeting  ;)
<boredandblogging> i'm ok with doing Malaysia, if others are willing
<effie_jayx> I am cool
<popey> ya
<boredandblogging> Malaysia, you are next
<juliux> nobody here from malaysia?
<JanC> they were even added during the meeting, I think?
<boredandblogging> JanC: lol
<juliux> JanC: you are right;9
<boredandblogging> ok, lets postpone Malaysia then
<JanC> moving to NH then?
<juliux> i thought reapproving;)
<boredandblogging> we can do re-approval on the list
<boredandblogging> i think new hampshire might be more pressing issue
<Arc> I'd like to give the person in question a chance to join, in case he's late
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  cool then
<persia> Should reapproval not be interactive with questions?  The agenda encourages adding, and people may be in attendance.
 * nealmcb wishes m-c was here....
<Arc> I have a feeling he's avoiding this meeting based on our experiences with him
<boredandblogging> are there members from the Japan team here?
<jkbys> yes
<shibata> yes
<persia> yes
<jkbys> I'm Japanese Team contact
<boredandblogging> Arc: lets give m-c a few more minutes
<boredandblogging> in the meantime, lets do Japan?
<Arc> agreed, I'll try to call him as well
<popey> m-c has had 44 mins to be fair
<boredandblogging> popey: true
<boredandblogging> Lets do Japan
<popey> however it's a short notice meeting agenda item
<popey> yes, japan first
<JanC> maybe somebody can contact m-c directly (phone, SMS, IM, mail, ...) to ask him to come?
<popey> 1344 members on your list is pretty impressive
<boredandblogging> does the Japan Team meet physically?
<juliux> do you have any numbers how many people use your remix desktop cds?
<Arc> I have his cellphone #, if someone else would like to call him
<jkbys> We meet about 3 times per year
<jkbys> julux, we don't know strict numbers, but thousands of people user our remix cds
<popey> jkbys: do you know if many people use your remix CDs?
<popey> heh
<popey> sorry :)
<boredandblogging> will Japan be participating in SFD?
<JanC> I think the project to handle Japanese language bug reports is cool
<jkbys> boredandblogging, no
<boredandblogging> jkbys: can you explain the LoCo Membership process
<popey> Arc: give me his number
<popey> via prv
<effie_jayx> jkbys,  how do you foster more participation in events?
<jkbys> boredandblogging, self introducing and explain their contribution for ubuntu on IRC meeting, and agreed with 2 or more current members
<juliux> i am happy to reapprove the japan team
<juliux> +1
<JanC> yeah, +1 from me too
<popey> +1 too
<boredandblogging> jkbys: to be a member of the Japan team, an individual has to go through a membership process?
<jkbys> effie_jayx, announce on web and ML and call help
<jkbys> boredandblogging, yes
<popey> i get voicemail from m-c
<Arc> same here
<effie_jayx> popey,  leave a message ... ;)
<boredandblogging> jkbys: do many individuals apply?
<effie_jayx> jkbys,  any projects for the team ? or plans are only offering the services you already have
<boredandblogging> what is the benefit of having that membership?
<jkbys> boredandblogging, no at the current
<persia> boredandblogging: One of the large benefits of the Japanese Team membership process is a sense of belonging.
<persia> Many people visit the IRC channel, forums, mailing lists, etc.  Many of these are helpful.
<JanC> boredandblogging: what's the benefit of being an Ubuntu Member?  ;)
<popey> JanC: ponies!
<jkbys> effie_jayx, we have plan to switch country mirror server to more stable one
<persia> Those who are wish are able to call themselves members of the team, which helps provide team identity.
<boredandblogging> persia: understood
<persia> The requirements are fairly light: the prospective member must wish to join, and two existing members must agree.  It is expected that the process will become lighter as the team grows.
<JanC> persia: but non-Members are allowed to do the same things as Members ?
<persia> JanC: Yes.  Non-members are permitted to do everything except say "I am a member of the team" or vote for new members of the team.  All members are expected to attend the meetings, non-members may do so if they wish.
<juliux> boredandblogging: effie_jayx votes?
<effie_jayx> I would advise a bit of direction in terms of future plans
<boredandblogging> looks like they are doing work, +1 from me
<effie_jayx> I can see the great efforts to maintaing the services for members, but I also consider more participation in events and stablishing some projects miht help there
<effie_jayx> so my vote is +1 with those comments
<popey> well done
<boredandblogging> keep up the good work Japan!
<jkbys> thank you for comments, effie_jayx
<jkbys> Thank you all
<nealmcb> interesting concept on team membership
<shibata> thanks all
<nizarus> congrutulation japan
<boredandblogging> lets do New Hampshire, m-c had enough time to join this meeting
<nizarus> we are twin now :)
<jkbys> I gonna sleep. It's about 4am in Japan. Thank you.
<BunixTux> Good night ^^
<JanC> jkbys: goodnight!
<employeeno5> present from NH
<Arc> ditto
<nikkiana> ditto
<juliux> next one greek team?
<popey> lets get nh done
<effie_jayx> nh is up then
<Arc> employeeno5 is online from work, so he may not be available later
<popey> so in summary you have ..
<employeeno5> i'm doing ok for now, but don't be surprised if i'm suddenly non-responsive due to phone call or some such
<popey> * Concerns about an authoritarian leader
<popey> * Lack of communication between new people and the existing team due to blockade by m-c
<nealmcb> perhaps a quick decision on approving some additional leaders for nh would be the most appropriate thing at this point
<popey> * no mailing list
<nealmcb> and having a discussion on m-c can wait until he has more than a day's notice of a meeting like this
<popey> nealmcb: lets see what the problems are first
<popey> what other issues are there?
<Arc> nealmcb: he did reply to the email about this meeting, so he is aware of it.
<employeeno5> that's a fair summary. one person is the contact point and they're being selective about who they contact
<Arc> that he has avoided or shot down attempts to resolve this locally
<popey> * Leader unwilling to take on board new ideas from members
<popey> would that be fair to say?
<employeeno5> indeed
<Arc> yes.
<nikkiana> yes
<pleia2> I'm from the US Mentors team and have worked with m-c since before he moved to NH, I've tried very hard to work with him to nudge him in the right direction, but finally gave up and brought the issue to other Mentors
<Arc> if a person signs up on launchpad or expressed interest in person, and they are not interested in what he's envisioned for the group, they're turned away
<employeeno5> as well as blocking new membership by his own sole disceition
<effie_jayx> the mailing list episode is an example of "I think this is the best for the team" and not consulting
<popey> I will say now that I have had a run in with m-c (as desertc) before when he attempted to stifle my opinion/contribution, so I _do_ understand your problem
<pleia2> he's also banned at least one member from the #ubuntu-us-nh channel
<pleia2> s/member/mentor
<effie_jayx> pleia2,  he banned a mentor?
<Arc> his vision is a small "action" group doing tabling at events, which certainly has a place within the LoCo, but his actions have made this to the exclusion of everything else
<pleia2> effie_jayx: yes, banned nealmcb
<popey> Arc: did he know that the loco-council were aware of this meeting?
<JanC> pleia2: who was that and is this mentor here?
<employeeno5> i had stood outside of this conflict until recently so made an honest a attempt and meeting him half-way on these issues
<JanC> ah, right
<pleia2> I left of my own accord before he could ban me
<effie_jayx> pleia2,  their mailing list is still down?
<Arc> popey: we emailed him last night, Nikki and myself.  we offered to withdraw this agenda item if he complied with the decisions made at the last meeting by the group and started working with us to resolve this
<popey> effie_jayx: it's disabled
<pleia2> effie_jayx: correct
<Arc> he replied to that email, confirming that he received it
<nealmcb> the issue seems mainly to be what he doen't do, not what he does. beyond getting unbanned myself (which is not really important from the team's perspective), I think at this point just opening up launchpad, mailing list, irc admin etc to others who want to participate is what would help
<effie_jayx> I find this wrong. he cannot decide who he wants peple to participate
<popey> indeed
<boredandblogging> agreed
<Arc> jcastro has approved our mailing list, based on the group's decision at our last meeting, so that one issue should be taken care of
<effie_jayx> how sorry
<nealmcb> arc great
<Arc> it's also what he does do, too.
<effie_jayx> I believe we should "encourage" him to open the mailing list and delegate it to someone more mailing list oriented
<pleia2> I will say he's fantastic at driving advocacy himself and is very committed, he's just not very inclusive, and has resisted all attempts for it
<JanC> effie_jayx: good idea
<popey> i dont think you need to do that effie_jayx
<popey> it's not the leaders role to unilaterally decide what resources the loco will have
<Arc> he's fostered a negative atmosphere that discourages participation, including talking about people (both loco members and members of the local LUG) behind their backs
<popey> if a member wants a mailing list, they should be able to create one
<popey> if a member wants a forum, they should be able to create that too
<Arc> he's also introduced the LoCo to each of us, during his "screening" process, as his own personal group.
<popey> the leader is (in my mind) more of a point of contact and a mentor than a dictator^WLeader
<nealmcb> I have lots of input on this, but don't think it best to talk about him when he's not here.  "route around him" for now, and deal with future behavior and other issues when he's around
<boredandblogging> popey: exactly
<popey> i disagree nealmcb
<popey> we should not be routing around issues, but dealing with them
<juliux> i think it is unfair to talk about a person if the person is not here
<effie_jayx> popey,  do you agree that the mailing list should be opened as it offers members a chance to share ?
<popey> if he chooses not to be here, then that's his choice
<JanC> and he can reply in a later meeting if he wants
<juliux> so lets recall that at the next meeting
<popey> effie_jayx: yes,
<Arc> we have been routing around him to some extent, in creating an Ubuntu SIG with the local LUG (which has numerous chapters and 2 SIGs already)
<JanC> popey: we can't know if he didn't have anything else planned
<popey> i propose an email based conversation with him from the loco-council, if nothing happens in a reasonable time, we pass it to the CC promptly
<popey> JanC: he could have mailed
<Arc> the idea with that was to "route around" his filtering of new people, so we could build a user community
<popey> Arc: i dont believe thats the way forward
<popey> we should not be routing round badness in our community, we should improve or remove it
<JanC> popey: that would have been better behaviour, yes  ;)
<Arc> it was pragmatic given the amount of time we've invested in trying to resolve this
<effie_jayx> popey,  I agree, but there is a tendency to play fool here
<popey> i would recommend that we contact m-c and give him until the next cc meet (5th Aug) to sort it
<popey> that's plenty of time
<popey> imagine us-nh was coming up for team approval, would you approve it based on the current state of affairs?
<popey> if not we would recommend a way forward. which is what I propse, we recommend a way forward for m-c and the team as a whole
<popey> this may result in m-c getting improved or removed
<Arc> can I ask in the meantime that we have some council intervention with the launchpad in assuring that new members are no longer filtered?
<JanC> I think we can route around him until he has given his view (he can answer by mail to our list if he prefers), and yes 5th August sounds like a reasonable deadline for that
<Arc> we did decide unanimously at our last meeting to do this.
<popey> Arc: to do that would mean that we dont give him the chance
<nealmcb> well, as long as m-c isn't able to block progress, and continues to do other good stuff (from what I've heard), I wouldn't hold one idiosyncratic member against the team....
<nealmcb> but yes - main thing is to get another launchpad admin, another irc admin, a mailing list, etc
<effie_jayx> I would also suggest forming a small group that can help assure this does not happen again. having a CC like figure helps
<popey> i don't think we should route round by adding new admins without speaking to him first
<effie_jayx> popey,  I agree
<boredandblogging> by adding the admins, we are almost saying we have taken a certain view without discussing with m-c
<popey> yes
<nealmcb> another == an additional admin
<popey> that is what i understood you to mean nealmcb
<popey> and my position stands
<pleia2> effie_jayx: I think the role you're looknig for is already filled by the US Mentors team - we brought it here since we have no real "teeth" so to speak and m-c has rejected (banned!) our intervention
<nealmcb> with tennessee we did the same thing, and helped m-c (desertc) revive a team where the admin was out of touch
<effie_jayx> pleia2, I see.
<nealmcb> without sanctioning the out-of-touch admin
<Arc> so you're saying that the decisions made by the group are moot?
<popey> no
<popey> but you asked us to help
<Arc> we did decide unanimously to add Nikki as admin, enable the mailing list, and stop member screening
<popey> we aren't here to action your meeting minutes without question
<popey> Arc: so do that
<popey> what do you need us for if you have decided to do that?
<effie_jayx> popey,  can we draw a timeline for things, I think that would ease the worries on the nh team members
<effie_jayx> ?
<boredandblogging> popey: they can't, only m-c has access
<popey> boredandblogging: they can, they can ask jorge to do it
<Arc> popey: m-c has exclusive admin access to launchpad.
<popey> effie_jayx: yes
<boredandblogging> right, jorge can do the lists
<Arc> ok so we just have to contact jorge?
<nealmcb> I think all teams should have multiple admins for each function - otherwise blockage is too common
<popey> Arc: that depends
<employeeno5> i agree that this requires full legitmacy.  if that requires m-c's participation we should wait. however, please understand he may avoid or deny the problem and in the meantime, all LoCo meetings are being held without his participation (by this choosing)
<popey> if he denys or avoids then it goes to the cc, period.
<boredandblogging> if he avoids, then its pretty easy
<nealmcb> in tennessee, the previous team leader ignored contacts, two new leaders volunteered and were put in place in parallel, and things improved from there
<popey> i appreciate that the nh team have taken a decision to work around m-c, but in the interest of keeping a team together and potentially working this issue out, I'd like us to at least be allowed to try to "fix" it before you do what you agreed to do
<nealmcb> and later the team leader reappeared a little bit
<employeeno5> i'm sorry, i meant "by his choosing" not "this choosing"
<popey> nealmcb: i am not saying don't add admins, I am saying don't do it _right_ _now_. Let us try to mediate and resolve this.
<popey> _then_ add the admins once we have m-c's attention
<popey> if he refuses -> CC
<effie_jayx> makes sense
<boredandblogging> the fundamental issue is m-c
<nealmcb> popey: why not have multiple admins?  are we worried that this is a coup?
<popey> to some degree
 * nealmcb doubts that 5 active nh folks are staging a coup :)
<nealmcb> I've been in touch with this for 3 weeks now, and it doesn't sound like a coup to me
<nealmcb> and if it was, what would the risk be?
<effie_jayx> I agree with popey, I thik we must wait until he is fuly aware of what is going on.
<pleia2> popey: how do you suggest they move on from here? talk to jcastro about a mailing list, and you folks on the loco-council talk with m-c about launchpad admins and screening?
<JanC> nealmcb: at least this way it's obvious that this isn't a coup against the will of the team
<boredandblogging> is there a risk in waiting two weeks to flush this out?
<Arc> boredandblogging: energy.
 * nealmcb nods
<popey> boredandblogging: it probably wouldnt take that long
<nealmcb> and trust it our ability to trust folks
<Arc> we've invested a lot of time and energy into this already, quite frankly it's exhasting
<popey> i am not saying wait till 5th aug at all
<effie_jayx> I think this is a delicate matter that must not be dealt with in haste
<popey> we can start contact with m-c today
<popey> give him until the weekend to respond.
<boredandblogging> agree with effie_jayx and popey
<Arc> that sounds reasonable
<pleia2> sounds good
<effie_jayx> good .. timeline. that clears it
<popey> i appreciate that it's been going on for a long time for you guys (and girls) but you brought it up with us to get help, so either you want us to help (by negotiating) or you just want us to say "yeah, go ahead, add more admin" in which case what have we helped you with?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 24 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team
<popey> we can give you guys a status update by the weekend okay?
<effie_jayx> popey,  about the mailing list, it was pleia2 question. should it be reactivated or wait for response from m-c and then reactivation
<employeeno5> thanks for your time and advice
<Arc> jcastro has already approved it
<popey> personally i think anyone should be able to setup a mailing list for a team
<JanC> BTW: is there a public log of the meeting where things were decided?
<popey> I don't think that's the leaders role
<pleia2> JanC: real life meeting, there are minutes prepared
<Arc> JanC: yes minutes were taken and posted
<effie_jayx> popey,  great then
<effie_jayx> another thing...
<effie_jayx> pleia2,  would you reconsider working with this team?
<pleia2> effie_jayx: absolutely
<popey> that would help pleia2
<popey> great!
<pleia2> :)
<effie_jayx> fantastic.
<pleia2> plus, I have family in NH, I should visit ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> great excuse
<popey> "I'm just popping out"
<nealmcb> I think there are lots of ways teams get help "facilitating" things with difficult people - pleia2 and I have done that for nearly a month.  I think this is the only body that can make the *policy* decision that admins need to be overridden.
<pleia2> hehe
<Arc> we'd love to have you come to our august meeting :-)
<effie_jayx> pleia2,  great to have you on the situation again
<popey> nealmcb: we could, yes, but I would rather not, not now
<nealmcb> sure
<effie_jayx> popey,  set then?
<nealmcb> I was just responding to your question
<popey> ah, ok
<JanC> we just give him a chance to answer/defend himself
<popey> shall i draft a mail to loco-council, you council members review and then we send?
<effie_jayx> JanC,  just a plain response
<effie_jayx> popey,  I shall be holding on for it...
<boredandblogging> popey: and CC all the NH members involved?
<popey> heh
<nealmcb> I guess my main question is about our vision of leadership
<boredandblogging> popey: i mean when its sent out to m-c
<popey> boredandblogging: i wouldn't
<nealmcb> do we expect a single leader, or lots of folks sharing contact and admin authority
<effie_jayx> nealmcb,  we just have to refer to the leadership code of conduct and we have enough to deal with
<popey> personally nealmcb I like to see "all hands to the pump"
<popey> but with one or two "contact" people who are "go to guys (or gals)"
<nealmcb> so adding new folks to leadership roles isn't a big deal, especially when there is good evidence of blockage
<popey> not if everyone is in agreement, no
<nealmcb> anyway, sounds like it won't be long before things are resolved
<popey> yeah, I'm sure it wont
<effie_jayx> nealmcb,  I am glad you see it that way
<Arc> thanks for tackling this popey
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  thougts?
<popey> if by the weekend this isn't resolved, we can mail the cc to get a faster decision
<popey> no worries Arc
<nealmcb> arc, employeeno5, nikkiana - does that work for you?
<boredandblogging> i understand the frustration...
<popey> yeah
<popey> it can'
<boredandblogging> but I want to hear from m-c before doing anything
<Arc> if it's just until this weekend, it's fine with me
<popey> it can't be pleasant for you guys
<Arc> I just want to minimise further damage with rejected/pending members
<effie_jayx> we are all set then
<employeeno5> yes.
<nealmcb> why involve the cc? - decision to do what?
<popey> hmm, didn't come out how i meant
<JanC> CC --> ubuntu membership
<popey> if this all kicks off, and it goes horribly badly wrong
<boredandblogging> yes, m-c is an ubuntu member
<popey> we can get membership revoked, launchpad accounts removed
<popey> etc
<popey> but thats not something we should be considering right now
<popey> but if we did, it would be up to the cc
<nealmcb> good
<nealmcb> got it
<effie_jayx> ok...
<nealmcb> and not without the person being present...
<boredandblogging> nealmcb: exactly
<popey> it's amazing how a mail from mark can make people respond :)
 * nealmcb wants m-c to continue to contribute in the cool ways he does
<popey> *exactly*
<Arc> ditto
<Arc> so long as it's not in exclusion of other things people are interested in the LoCo for
<Arc> he does have a lot of energy and interest, and there's certainly a place in the team for what he wants to do
<employeeno5> It's true that he's still out there doing promotion. He's just doing it with out informing the group or inviting only select members through private emails. He's invited to hand out cd's at a trade show next weekend.
<boredandblogging> ok, so we have consensus on what to do?
<employeeno5> I will agree to what the group/advisors feel is appropriate. I just want to make sure it's being addressed on some level
<nealmcb> so e.g. I'm banned from the irc channel #ubuntu-us-nh now (shocking to me...) - should I take that up separately with #ubuntu-ops?
<boredandblogging> popey will send out an email to m-c and m-c needs to reply by this weekend
<boredandblogging> nealmcb: they'll probably look into why
<nealmcb> are any of the other current nh-folks interested in being an op in that channel?
<magicrobotmonkey> i am one
<JanC> nealmcb: I suggest you wait until after the weekend too
<nealmcb> boredandblogging: it seems to be for asking about decision making processes :)
<popey> heh, there's your unban done then nealmcb :)
<Arc> magicrobotmonkey: can you unban nealmcb?
<magicrobotmonkey> probably, but i dont know why he was banned, ill talk to him
<nealmcb> ...nicely...
<nealmcb> I can send a transcript
<boredandblogging> nealmcb: i would suggest you wait a few more days
<employeeno5> boredandblogging, The email plan from Popey sounds fine to me (if you're looking for concensus from NH members).
<nealmcb> no problem
<nealmcb> (to wait)
<magicrobotmonkey> yea, id rather not do anything to make anyone too angry
<nealmcb> magicrobotmonkey: yeah
<boredandblogging> ok, good, I think we've decided on a plan for NH
<boredandblogging> do we want to Greece?
<popey> thanks for being patient nealmcb employeeno5 pleia2 magicrobotmonkey
<nealmcb> :)
<employeeno5> Thanks for the time everyone
<employeeno5> it's much appreciated
<boredandblogging> juliux, JanC still with us?
<magicrobotmonkey> heh i didnt even know anything was going on till like 3 days ago
<Arc> yea thanks for tackling this popey
<JanC> boredandblogging: yep
<boredandblogging> is anyone from the Greek team here?
<effie_jayx> no Greek team?
<boredandblogging> anyone from the Czech team?
<vojtech_t> yes
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 21:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 24 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team
<juliux> boredandblogging: sure
<Kingskid> yep, here
<boredandblogging> lets do the Czech team then
<juliux> i think we have 10min left
<mhb> I am here, too (Czech)
<boredandblogging> the web presence meeting is in a different channel
<juliux> is there realy no roadmap for the future?
<vojtech_t> yes, there is
<boredandblogging> are there any other plans for 2008?
<vojtech_t> for 2008 no, we have some plans for "far" future (next year)
<vojtech_t> maybe some "small" plans for near future -- like translating Full Circle Magazine, or make czech screencasts
<boredandblogging> vojtech_t: what are the plans for 2009?
<vojtech_t> we began cooperation with Liberix -- http://liberix.cz/os_en_charakteristika.php -- non-profit OSS association -- we have some plans with grants from Europian Eunion
<vojtech_t> *Union
<juliux> vojtech_t: is jenda still active in czech locoteam?
<vojtech_t> yes he is, he promised to come, but...
<juliux> its jenda;)
<vojtech_t> yes :-)
<juliux> what about your plans to offer ubuntu support?
<vojtech_t> you mean commercial support?
<juliux> yes
<juliux> i heard there something in the paste
<boredandblogging> vojtech_t: what are the plans with the EU?
<boredandblogging> EU grants
<vojtech_t> Yes, we have some plans, but there are many problems with czech law, taxes etc.
<Kingskid> Beside big EU plans we'd like to install Ubuntu in some elementary or high school as a showcase
<JanC> EU grants are for concrete projects?
<vojtech_t> EU: Liberix has expiriences and they told us its not so difficult to get grant for support OSS
<vojtech_t> I'm not lawyer, but it looks practicable...
<JanC> you can get a grant for specific projects, which requires a lot of paperwork both before & after, are you prepared to do that work?  ã
<Kingskid> http://domeknavsi.blogspot.com/2008/02/pozdrav-pr-statistik.html
<Kingskid> Soryy, wrong window
<juliux> vojtech_t: how many people are coming to your real life meetings?
<vojtech_t> yes, I know... I have two books about this (500 pages together) so I know its bureaucracy...
<vojtech_t> juliux: unfortunately not
<juliux> vojtech_t: so there are no meetings?
<Kingskid> we have meetings, usually 4-6 poeple come
<vojtech_t> there are meeting, but only with few people
<Kingskid> but we had only couple meetings so far
<juliux> ok
<vojtech_t> last meeting was 31.5. -- four people came...
<effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  where would you consider to be most active?
<JanC> why not on-line meetings (maybe there are more people then?)
<vojtech_t> effie_jayx: I mean community support.
<effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  any advocacy work or projects brewing?
<vojtech_t> JanC: it's crazy but not -- we had some and many people had problems with that...
<vojtech_t> effie_jayx: yes, but you asked for "most active"
<juliux> vojtech_t: i have some problems to say +1 on your reapproval, i miss some documentation about your activity, your plans about the future and where some new people can join te loco
<juliux> can you perhaps work on that?
<effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  sorry, my question may not have come in the right way. I meant do you have any advocacy work you can consider significant or any prjects worth mentioning?
<effie_jayx> ok... can we vote on this guys?
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  juliux, JanC ?
<boredandblogging> i would like to see more progress
<boredandblogging> on the approval application
<boredandblogging> vojtech_t: can you work on coming up with plans to make the Czech team more active?
<effie_jayx> I agree, I would also like to see plans for the future. the work of building a team is enourmous but ensuring it stays active long after is very importan
<popey> agreed
<JanC> also, I see only one place mentioned where ubuntu-cz did a booth?
<effie_jayx> so
<effie_jayx> I would like the team to come back later for reapproval
<effie_jayx> for approval sorry
<effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  does it make sense?
<TuniX12> oO
<vojtech_t> yes, you're right, we've little bit underestimate the preparation for this meeting
<vojtech_t> there are problems with document our work -- everything is in Czech, so it useless for english speaking people...
<boredandblogging> vojtech_t: at least the links would be good
<effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  we can futher assist you guys should you need any help ?
<juliux> vojtech_t: if you need help you can always contact the loco council
<JanC> or ask in #ubuntu-locoteams
<vojtech_t> so, it's possible to come to the next meeting (of course better prepared)?
<boredandblogging> vojtech_t: if you feel you will be ready
<vojtech_t> I think yes -- this meeting was good experience -- now we know what to prepare...
<boredandblogging> vojtech_t: ok, good
<vojtech_t> thanks
<boredandblogging> anyone from the Greek Team?
 * huats has just arrived.... thinking that the loco meeting was 20:00 UTC (and not 20:00 local time which is 18:00 UTC)... I am really sorry for that. If you still want to talk about the twinning I'll be happy to :)
<boredandblogging> huats: can you add it to the agenda for the next meeting?
<huats> boredandblogging: sure
<boredandblogging> think we are done with this meeting
<huats> since it was a bit related to the tunisia loco
<huats> ...
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging, yep pretty much
<boredandblogging> juliux, JanC, effie_jayx, popey anything else?
<huats> that was why I mentionned it
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  all fine
<boredandblogging> huats: tunisia was approved
<huats> boredandblogging: I know
<popey> i think you've covered it boredandblogging
<huats> :)
<effie_jayx> thanks for running it boredandblogging
<huats> sorry for the late arrival guys...
<effie_jayx> huats,  no problemo
<boredandblogging> excellent, thanks everyone!
<juliux> i have nothing left
<JanC> stopping now is okay for me (then I can go fix some food ;) )
<boredandblogging> we are done for today
<boredandblogging> 2.5 hours is long enough ;-)
<juliux> yep
<juliux> next meeting middle of august?
<popey> heh
<popey> ooo, i might be on holiday
<popey> nvm, I will ssh from my phone :)
<boredandblogging> we can discuss it on the mailing list
<boredandblogging> have to go myself
<juliux> ok
<effie_jayx> see ya then
<boredandblogging> lets adjourn
<juliux> have a nice evening
<effie_jayx> good nigth everyone
<huats> have a nice evenig everyone
<huats> juliux: how about your new home ?
<juliux> huats: is getting better from day to day
<huats> juliux: I am it is :)
<huats> juliux: you should send some pics
<huats> :)
<juliux> i a few weeks
<juliux> in
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: Ubuntu Web Presence Team | 22 Jul 23:00: EMEA membership meeting | 23 Jul 19:00: QA Team | 24 Jul 00:00: Platform Team | 24 Jul 15:00: Desktop Team | 24 Jul 16:00: Java Team
<nizarus> boredandblogging, huats missed our discussion about tunisan team
<nizarus> and now he's here :)
<boredandblogging> nizarus: huats will put twinning on the agenda for the next meeting
<nizarus> ok cool :)
<huats> nizarus: yeah I mentionned that
<nizarus> boredandblogging, what about redirecting ubuntu-tn.org domaine
<Syntux> As part of our celebration for the TN team and getting Ubuntu-arabic mailing list, I introduce Jad doing the Hula http://bakkouz.net/2007/08/18/bakkouz-jad-do-the-hula/
<boredandblogging> nizarus: do you own the domain already?
<boredandblogging> or does canonical own it?
<huats> we'll add the twinning stuff in the next meeting
<huats> and we'll base that on our discussions/work nizarus
<nizarus> boredandblogging,  i think that it's owned by canonical
<boredandblogging> nizarus: once you have a website, submit a request to rt@ubuntu.com with the IP address of the server
<boredandblogging> and then the ubuntu DNS will point ubuntu-tn to that server
<nizarus> ok boredandblogging
<nizarus> thnx Syntux for the dance
<JanC> nizarus: I think you should contact smurf about the DNS
<nizarus> JanC, the web group is developping a draft web site
<JanC> nizarus: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto#head-cfe4fc9d9b2edd0637a06563daf48bdb9c06e90c
<JanC> Matthias Urlichs = smurf on IRC
<JanC> he's in the #ubuntu-locoteams & #ubuntu-eu (& other) channels normally
<JanC> some other people in -eu can do some changes too
<nizarus> Syntux, can you explain me how to have our logo approved ?
<Syntux> nizarus, send an email to trademarks@canonical.com make sure to explain that it's for ubuntu-tn use
<nizarus> ok Syntux
<Syntux> nizarus, sorry it's trademarks@ubuntu.com not Canonical.
<nizarus> boredandblogging, JanC, where we can find the official info that we are an official loco team now ?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: EMEA membership meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 24 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team
<forumsmatthew> Greetings everyone!
<Seveas> hi
<stgraber> hello
<forumsmatthew> Who is here from the emea team?
 * PriceChild waves
<forumsmatthew> popey?
<Seveas> us three^Wfour
<popey> nicole?
<forumsmatthew> do we have enough of us to start?
<Seveas> I think so
<PriceChild> 5/7?
<adiroiban> Hi. I'm Adi Roiban from the Romanian LoCo team
<Seveas> hi adi
<Seveas> you're right on time :)
<adiroiban> that's great
<Seveas> someone else please chair this time, I'm almost falling down
<forumsmatthew> we have a pretty short list, let's start at the top
<Seveas> the top 2 are of course not here
<forumsmatthew> I was just looking
<Seveas> popey, have you ever heard anything from them?
<forumsmatthew> you are faster than me
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, heh
<popey> Seveas: no, I'd scratch them off
<forumsmatthew> after our discussions and attempts, I agree
<stgraber> +1
<Seveas> +1
<Seveas> hi phanatic
<forumsmatthew> yay, phanatic
<forumsmatthew> just in time
<Seveas> <forumsmatthew> we have a pretty short list, let's start at the top
<Seveas> <Seveas> the top 2 are of course not here
<Seveas> <Seveas> popey, have you ever heard anything from them?
<Seveas> <forumsmatthew> I was just looking
<Seveas> <forumsmatthew> you are faster than me
<Seveas> <Seveas> forumsmatthew, heh
<Seveas> <popey> Seveas: no, I'd scratch them off
<Seveas> <forumsmatthew> after our discussions and attempts, I agree
<Seveas> <stgraber> +1
<Seveas> <Seveas> +1
<phanatic> hello guys, sorry for being a bit late...
<Seveas> (phanatic: that's all you missed)
<phanatic> thanks Seveas
<PriceChild> imo anything other than approval is a rejection... i say scratch them off
<forumsmatthew> so we have 5 votes to remove the names...phanatic?
<phanatic> forumsmatthew: i agree
<Seveas> ok, gone :)
<stgraber> that's two less candidates :)
<forumsmatthew> Next up, Adi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdiRoiban
<forumsmatthew> https://launchpad.net/~adiroiban
<adiroiban> here
<forumsmatthew> great, tell us who you are, etc
<Seveas> adiroiban, I've been looking at ubuntu.ro -- are you interested in the http://planet.ubuntu-nl.org theme? :)
<adiroiban> are you sugesting we should change the theme?
<Seveas> adiroiban, no, but I saw you had ubuntu.ro in the 'new' style but planet not
<adiroiban> ah..
<adiroiban> we have some problems with the server hosting the ubuntu.ro
<adiroiban> right now is locked
<Seveas> ouch
<adiroiban> but I'm buing a new server and will be relocated next week
<adiroiban> then we can have acess to the files and I will also update the theme
<adiroiban> and the wiki
<PriceChild> adiroiban: any pics/links about the software/document freedom days or release partys?
<phanatic> adiroiban: are you paying for the new server from you own money, or did you have some kind of fund raising in your loco?
<adiroiban> the server is bouth by the previous team leader and me
<forumsmatthew> adiroiban, I've read your LP and wiki pages. Nice stuff! Is there anyone here with you that knows you and plans to say something on your behalf?
<Seveas> adiroiban, are ther plans for sfd 2008 in september?
<adiroiban> http://www.softwareliber.ro/2008/03/16/document-freedom-day-22-martie-cluj-napoca/
<adiroiban> this is the announce for DFD
<adiroiban> unfortunalty we are still trying to obtain the video and pictures taken by the national televions
<Seveas> I'm going for +1 based on what I see on ubuntu.ro and related sites, launchpad data (karma, date joined) and jani's recommendation
<adiroiban> I have applied for SFS 2008
<phanatic> a tiny testimonial from me as well: last year our loco member (from hungary) sent some ubuntu stickers to our fellow romanian friends. a few weeks ago our team member was approached by adi to receive some firefox stickers he got. (i hope i can remember the story well) so great work with other loco's too!
<adiroiban> and we will have a press conference
<adiroiban> i think the stickers are on the way
<adiroiban> i have just sent them
<phanatic> adiroiban: good news, thanks :)
<adiroiban> the hungarian loco member is Ory
<forumsmatthew> I'm satisfied. +1 from me
<stgraber> +1 too, looks like massive LoCo and LUG involvment, long time LP user + lot of karma point (that's usually good) and for all the work on the websites.
<phanatic> +1 from me, too
<PriceChild> +1 adiroiban make sure you get a load of photos and things to show off on planet for sfd 2008!
<popey> +1
<forumsmatthew> unanimous among those present...congratulations!!
<adiroiban> Many thanks!
<Seveas> vongrats adiroiban, welcome aboard!
<Seveas> phanatic, where's Ory? :)
<forumsmatthew> Next up, Mate
<forumsmatthew> you here?
<phanatic> Seveas: he's on vacation :) meeting was announced to late for him...
<Seveas> ok
<forumsmatthew> next time, hopefully
<forumsmatthew> Let's move to Soren
<stgraber> sbc: around ?
 * sbc is here
<Seveas> shawarma left a note in my pm
<Seveas> <soren> I won't have time to attend the ubuntu membership meeting this this evening, but I'd still like to put in a good word for SÃ¸ren Bredlund Christensen (sbc). He's a very active and consistent contributor to the Danish LoCo team's activities. I can definitely vouch for him.
<Seveas> I see meeting minutes of more than a year ago, so long time involvement: check
<forumsmatthew> I like all the links on the wiki page...I'm still reading/clicking
<sbc> Ill be quiet while you read then :)
<Seveas> I've clicked a few and combined with testimonials from shawarma and martin pihl I'm impressed
<Seveas> +1
<forumsmatthew> I'm in complete agreement.
<forumsmatthew> +1
<popey> +1 for consistent contribution
<PriceChild> +1 nice testimonial, photos! keep it going
<phanatic> +1, great work
<stgraber> +1, testimonials and all the links on the wiki page
<forumsmatthew> congratulations! unanimous acceptance
<Seveas> short meetings ftw
 * sbc cheers
<Seveas> congrats sbc!
<sbc> Thanks guys!
<adiroiban> Congratulations Soren
<Seveas> See y'all next time
<Seveas> I need sleep
<forumsmatthew> me too...
 * sbc goes for a celebration beer.
<forumsmatthew> rest well
<adiroiban> as Ubuntu member, is there a new track i can pursue
<Seveas> adiroiban, world domination
<adiroiban> or I should continue my activities?
<Seveas> just continue the good work, keep ubuntu growing in Romania
<stgraber> adiroiban: MOTU if you want to do packaging otherwise not really, continue the good work and make Ubuntu rocks :)
<forumsmatthew> keep doing what you are doing, unless you discover a way to do it even better
<adiroiban> ok.
<forumsmatthew> good job, all
<forumsmatthew> see you later
<adiroiban> ok.
<adiroiban> see you later
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: EMEA membership meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 24 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 24 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 24 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 24 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: MOTU
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-23
<bazhang> @schedule
<ubottu> bazhang: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 23 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team | 24 Jul 14:00: Java Team | 24 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Mobile | 25 Jul 20:00: MOTU
<boredandblogging> @now
<ubottu> boredandblogging: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<boredandblogging> @schedule
<ubottu> boredandblogging: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<jussi01> hrghgh
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ |
<greg-g> @now San Francisco
<ubottu> greg-g: Error: Unknown timezone: San Francisco - Full list: http://tinyurl.com/4vyvp8
<greg-g> @now Los Angeles
<ubottu> greg-g: Current time in America/Los_Angeles: July 23 2008, 09:53:38 - Next meeting: Community Council in 13 days
<greg-g> @now
<ubottu> greg-g: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 23 2008, 16:53:53 - Next meeting: Community Council in 13 days
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 28 Aug 00:00 UTC: Rebuild test | 14 Aug 00:00 UTC: Intrepid Alpha 4 | 24 Jul 00:00 UTC: Intrepid Alpha 3 | 11 Sep 00:00 UTC: UserInterfaceFreeze | 28 Aug 00:00 UTC: Upgrade testing begins
<bdmurray> bah, Portland should be a valid time
<ara> :)
<LaserJock> bdmurray: who lives there? ;-)
<bdmurray> like everybody!
 * jpds waves.
 * stgraber waves
 * ogasawara waves
<heno> hey all!
<ara> hey!
 * cgregan waves
<greg-g> hello
<LaserJock> o/
<sbeattie> hey everyone
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:04. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<davmor2> hello
<bobbo> hey
<cody-somerville> hi
<schwuk> hi
<stgraber> lot of people tonight
<heno> I've moved the technical items to the top of the list to make sure we get to them
<heno> great to see lots of new people!
<heno> [TOPIC]: Alpha 3 testing status
<MootBot> New Topic: : Alpha 3 testing status
<heno> sbeattie, davmor2, stgraber ^ your views?
<heno> I understand ubiquity is a bit broken still
<stgraber> Server looks good except a weird conflict between LAMP and Mail server, I pinged #ubuntu-server about it
<stgraber> ubiquity is a bit broken and we have a kernel/usplash bug making usplash to display a black screen
<davmor2> there aren't that many things to test till the ubiquity issues get fixed and kubuntu has a number of post install issues
<davmor2> thank god it's an alpha
<Riddell> fixed ubiquity is being uploaded now
<Riddell> davmor2: post install issues?
<LaserJock> after Alpha2 I wonder if we need like an ISO testing twitter feed :-)
<davmor2> kdesudo, printing, adept, etc
<Riddell> ah well, details details :)
<stgraber> testing in kvm is still more or less broken for Desktop so I won't be able to help much there. I'll work on Edubuntu and Server images testing for today.
<davmor2> As I say post install the install on alternative is fine
<ara> have anyone tried virtualbox? is still broken as well?
<heno> cr3 will be piloting some more automated install testing for this alpha - Ubuntu/Kubuntu i386/amd64
<LaserJock> heno: can we get details of that sent to ubuntu-qa?
<stgraber> ara: I tried to install virtualbox and it's still not using dkms on Intrepid so I can't get it to build the kernel module
<heno> vbox worked for me about two weeks ago but was broken yesterday
<davmor2> I test on hw mostly so pass :)
<heno> LaserJock: yes, we'll post the test results and an overview of what we are doing
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Test Event | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Dec 19:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 02 Nov 19:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 14 Sep 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
<LaserJock> heno: awesome, thanks
<heno> basically we are opening up the Canonical certification infrastructure to also be useful to the wider Ubuntu project
<heno> stgraber, cr3 and schwuk are working on that
<LaserJock> good news
<heno> so it looks like testing will continue most of tomorrow
<heno> [TOPIC]: Searching for upstream Debian bugs (bdmurray)
<MootBot> New Topic: : Searching for upstream Debian bugs (bdmurray)
<bdmurray> I found out that the debian bug tracking system has a SOAP interface somewhat recently and I've written a script for searching package bugs for a string with it.
<bdmurray> It's called debian-bug-search and I've added it to the ubuntu-qa-tools project
<ara> useful, thanks
<bdmurray> I've had some success using it and thought it might be handy for the Hug Day tomorrow with apt
<heno> that will be excellent!
<heno> is there any documentation available?
<LaserJock> bdmurray: do you have some other tools that would be helpful for Hug Days or triaging in general?
<davmor2> bdmurray: so is the idea behind it to help confirm upstream issues or to tag the ubuntu bug with the upstream bug?
<LaserJock> seems like you do
<bdmurray> The idea is to link upstream bugs to Ubuntu bugs
<LaserJock> especially with a package like apt it's very helpful information
<davmor2> Sounds like a plan
<bdmurray> heno: I put a wee bit of documentation in the README for the project but its really straight forward
<heno> perhaps we need a tools page under the hug day pages - we could move the 5-a-day and editmoin text  there
<heno> they currently take up a fair bit of space on each hug day page
<LaserJock> heno: I was actually thinking about having a Hug Day .deb
<heno> LaserJock: or at least a bugsquad .deb
<LaserJock> or more generally a bugsquader .deb
<LaserJock> lol
<ara> one question, if we find an upstream bug, let's say, for gedit, that it is already filed in debian bug tracking system, which one should we link?
<heno> :)
<ara> the gnome bug tracker or the debian?
<ara> both?
<greg-g> LaserJock/ heno: ++
<LaserJock> ara:  both seems reasonable to me
<heno> So: Try the new debian bugs tool!
<bdmurray> I'd definitely link the Launchpad bug to the debian bug
<ara> ok, thanks bdmurray
<heno> [TOPIC]: Ubuntu testing teams (StÃ©phaneGraber)
<MootBot> New Topic: : Ubuntu testing teams (StÃ©phaneGraber)
<bdmurray> The other way might be less useful and you have to use an e-mail interface to work with debian bugs
<stgraber> ok, so we currently have basically one team of testers for each derivatives
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: ping?
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, pong
<LaserJock> ah, there you are
<stgraber> that's over 400 members counting for all testing teams we have
<stgraber> unfortunately we only see a very small part of those participating in ISO testing
<stgraber> I don't know if that's better with SRU testing but those team doesn't seem very useful to me as they currently are
<stgraber> because people join them and forget about them some weeks later, we don't have a way to contact those testers and don't have (AFAIK) any kind of structure in place at the moment
<stgraber> if we take ISO testing as an example, I'd say that for Hardy final testing we had only like 15-20 testers most of them testing distributions they don't use usually
<LaserJock> not being able to contact people is particularly difficult
<heno> so you're suggesting a restricted testing team like bug-control?
<heno> that would let us track it better and might instil more commitment
<stgraber> no, I don't think having a restricted team is a good idea but we clearly need to document what the team is for and maybe setup a team mailinglist on LP so we can send call for testing a week before an Alpha
<persia> Given the nature of testing, and the desire for more testers, it may be best to have clearly inviting language for any such restricted team "Anyone can join, just ask.  Renewals every three months.  Members are expected to participate in x% of testing targets for the team".
 * persia retracts the comment, seeing that it won't be a restricted team
<LaserJock> stgraber: are there expirations on memebrship?
<sbeattie> is there a reason not to encourage subscription to the ubuntu-qa@ list and announce testing there?
<LaserJock> sbeattie: yeah :-)
<heno> or we could have two levels, modelled on bugsquad/bug-control
<stgraber> there is 6 months expiry IIRC
<LaserJock> well, what if a  LP team list is created
<LaserJock> and that were to be used extensively for testing announcments
<LaserJock> not just "heah, Alpha3 is coming up" but "2008XXXX is invalidated, standby"
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Dec 19:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 02 Nov 19:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 14 Sep 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile
<LaserJock> I'm not particularly eager to see all that on ubuntu-qa, but on a testing team list it'd maybe make sense
<heno> I'm wondering how well the current email notification is working
<stgraber> what I'd propose as a start is: reduce expiry to 3 months, create a mailing-list
<persia> I thought having LP lists for Ubuntu teams was discouraged.
<stgraber> heno: not well as it's opt-in and people don't generally enable it
<LaserJock> persia: it is, but in this case it might be a good idea
<heno> it's not very good at differentiating between alphas and major milestones where we need more testing
<heno> stgraber: sounds good
<LaserJock> persia: in the sense of using it specifically to contact members of the team
<LaserJock> not for general discussion
<heno> we should then look at posting tracker updates automatically to that list
<stgraber> we currently have 81 users with e-mail notification turned on
<heno> and make sure it's easy for people to filter
<heno> by having rich header info
<LaserJock> stgraber: you can get email notification from iso.qa.ubuntu.com?
<stgraber> heno: we just have to create an account on the tracker and subscribe it to all the testcases
<stgraber> LaserJock: yep
<davmor2> LaserJock: yes
<heno> I'm guessing half of them or more ignore mails for alphas
<LaserJock> stgraber: didn't know that, interesting :-)
<heno> I'm happy for stgraber to reduce expiry to 3 months, create a mailing-list - any objections?
<davmor2> go for it :)
<LaserJock> I would just add that I think we could also clarify some of the pages
<stgraber> heno: btw, can you also make me a team administrator ? pochu wanted to when he left the team but only the owner can do that :)
<stgraber> LaserJock: +1
<LaserJock> like the team page and perhaps the wiki page
<heno> stgraber: will do
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 24 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
<heno> ok, next
<heno> [TOPIC]: QA liaison to Launchpad (LaserJock)
<MootBot> New Topic: : QA liaison to Launchpad (LaserJock)
<LaserJock> heno: are we talking about a @lists.ubuntu.com mailing list?
<heno> LaserJock: an LP one I think
<LaserJock> heno: we may need to discuss that later, lets move on for now
<LaserJock> ok, so in #ubuntu-quality the other day we were discussing some possible improvements to Launchpad that would help in QA efforts
<heno> ok, I don't have strong feelings about where the list sits
<LaserJock> and thekorn, greg-g and some others were talking about having a QA Liaison to Launchpad
<LaserJock> similar to what the MOTU have
<ara> can anyone give a some background on this, please?
<LaserJock> there was also some discussion about possibly teaming the liaisons together to form a "Launchpad Advisory board" or some such
<bdmurray> Would a Canonical employee be okay in this role?  We meet with them fairly regularly
<LaserJock> bdmurray: I'd really rather not
<heno> I think that makes sense - several Canonical folks already have good connections with the LP team, but a community voice would be valuable as well
<LaserJock> nothing personal about Canonical employees, but part of the issues that come up is that Launchpad developers communicate with other Canonical employees more often then they do with community people
<bdmurray> I thought this was a liason role though
<LaserJock> so I think it'd probably be better to get an "outside" person
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> but it's not a Canonical-Canonical liaison role, if you know what I  mean
<greg-g> Canonical-CommunityMemeber-Community, Canonical-Canonical-Community
<greg-g> but a "not" between those two
<greg-g> s/but/put
 * greg-g grrs
 * persia suspects that some Canonical people may be able to balance the difference, but that a non-Canonical person may be more approachable
<LaserJock> ara: the background is that it's difficult for Launchpad developers to prioritize or even figure out what needs to be done when there are hundreds of voices in their ear
<LaserJock> ara: so having a person appointed as a go-between helps Launchpad developers and our team get things we need done
<heno> I'm wondering what form the liasing would take - maintaing a wiki page of QA team wishlist items would be good
<LaserJock> persia: agreed, very much so
<bdmurray> LaserJock: and I think there is a fair bit of overlap between what I want and what the rest of the team wants - subsequently some points may become redudant
<greg-g> heno: we kinda have a starting of that now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/IdeaPool
<heno> and be in contact with the LP team on IRC and at UDSes
<LaserJock> heno: for instance, the MOTU liaison uses a "motu" tag, which is a recognized Launchpad tag to prioritize bugs
<bdmurray> LaserJock: there already is an ubuntu-qa tag
<LaserJock> heno: they also work with LP people on upcoming specs that are relevant to MOTU
<heno> greg-g: thanks, we could tighten that and ask the LP team to look at it
<LaserJock> bdmurray: yes, I'm aware of that
<greg-g> heno: it is most certainly a work in progress, fyi :)
<LaserJock> anyway, this is really part of a larger effort to create a team of people who LP dev/management can go to
<LaserJock> and the community can work through
<heno> If the LP team is open to an additional contact point, I'd be happy to see someone like thekorn in this role
<davmor2> need to go I'll catch up on the rest :)
<LaserJock> heno: they are indeed
<heno> the person should know LP from a few angles and should ideally have met LP bugs members already at a UDS or so
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I was just going to throw out a "who all wants to do it" email to ubuntu-qa and go from there
<heno> perhaps we should post a request for applications ...
<bdmurray> Somebody already checked with the launchpad team then?
<LaserJock> bdmurray: yes, I did
<heno> The LP team have some say in the selection of the MOTU liason, is that right?
<LaserJock> heno: well, yes, and no
<LaserJock> they don't technically but it'd be odd to have somebody do it that the LP people don't want to work with
<LaserJock> so generally you want somebody who has a good working relationship with them
<LaserJock> I can work up a job description, etc. and post it with my email to ubuntu-qa
<heno> I don't remember what the selection process was like
<LaserJock> I was the MOTU liaison for a long time (it's now siretart)
<persia> For MOTU, we've always accepted volunteers.  If someone was unsuitable (which has yet to happen), MOTU would likely call for replacement.
<heno> We should work out how this person collaborates with the Canonical QA team members who already have close connections with the LP team though
<LaserJock> heno: well, there is that
<bdmurray> I really think there is a risk of a lot of duplication of effort
<LaserJock> to a fairly large extent what Canonical QA wants to do is up to them :-)
<ara> duplication or overlapping
<heno> In reality our requirements are generally the same
<ara> communication between this person and Canonical QA is also important
<persia> overlapping can be good, if supportive and collaborative
<bdmurray> It doesn't seem efficient to me though
<heno> the Canonical Ubuntu QA team works in the open, apart from a few support cases
<LaserJock> also keep in mind, this is hopefully a part of a larger liaison team
<heno> where we have to preserve customer privacy
<LaserJock> I would like to see QA representation there
<heno> we are building a lot of teams here ;)
<LaserJock> heno: hopefully only good and useful ones ;-)
<LaserJock> I definatelly see where bdmurray is coming from
<heno> We discussed some feature additions to LP bugs at the sprint in London last week - I suggest we flesh out the notes in the ubuntu wiki and discuss it at next weeks meeting
<LaserJock> but my guess is that duplication shouldn't be an issue
<heno> we can then add requests from this group and see whether there is a need for a new team to represent that list
<heno> I think we would be able to agree on the whole list in this meeting format and present that to the LP team as a common list
<heno> then we need to follow that up as LP makes their releases
<heno> with the items in the open wiki we can all follow along
<LaserJock> well, there is a lot more than wiki pages
<heno> such as?
<LaserJock> filing bugs, following up, getting information on upcoming changes in LP
<LaserJock> talking with the LP devs to see what things can be done, etc.
<LaserJock> it's not mearly just presenting them with a wishlist
<LaserJock> as that will almost certainly be largly ignored
<heno> not if we present it as our common feature request list
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> alright, we can try that then, if you think it will work
<heno> let's see how that looks next week, and then reconsider posting the role
<LaserJock> ok
<heno> [TOPIC]: Intrepid Roadmap (LaserJock)
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so there's the great spec list at QATeam/Specs
<LaserJock> but as we're building the Ubuntu QA team mid-release I wondered if it would be useful to combine Intrepid specs with community efforts into an Intrepid roadmap page
<LaserJock> for Intrepid+1 it should flow much more naturally, but currently there's not a Roadmap for non-spec tasks
<LaserJock> so the question is, does that seem like a fruitful thing to do?
<heno> Roadmaps are good - should some of these things be written up as specs though?
<LaserJock> heno: some yeah
<LaserJock> I just didn't want to interfer with the existing material
<heno> LaserJock: what are the non-spec items you have in mind?
<LaserJock> well, more like bitesized tasks, people can get kind of turned off by "specs" as to large of a process to go through
<LaserJock> I'm more interested in track what people in the team are doing
<ara> LaserJock: can we get some examples?
<LaserJock> ara: simple tools
<heno> we already have todo lists for the bugs team
<ara> like the ones at ubuntu-qa-tools ??
<heno> (and for testing?)
<LaserJock> or community projects, or things that are just not "big" enough to warrant a full on spec
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/TODO
<LaserJock> heno: yeah, so I'd like to have an roadmap that indicates what we as a group want to accomplish for Intrepid
<heno> LaserJock: fine with me - feel free to start a page
<LaserJock> heno: yeah, that's good stuff
<heno> let's review it next week
<persia> It may also be good to use un-spec'd Roadmap items as "future" when completing them within the current release cycle is likely infeasible.
<LaserJock> I just don't want people to *not* do work because they think they need a full-on spec to do it
<heno> right
<LaserJock> if it needs a spec go for it
<LaserJock> but I'm more interested in tracking work
<heno> we should in fact review such a list every 4 weeks or so
<LaserJock> we've collected a pretty significant team in Ubuntu QA, more than I had hoped for
<LaserJock> but it needs to be doing stuff ;-)
<heno> right, we should wrap up this meeting and do some ISO testing!
<stgraber> +1
<heno> any further topics?
<stgraber> yes, a short one
<stgraber> has anyone taken note last week ?
<heno> not me unfortunately
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:09.
<heno> thanks everyone! good meeting :)
<schwuk> thanks heno
<stgraber> thanks
<sbeattie> sorry, I didn't take notes last week, either.
<stgraber> if someone did, please update the meeting page on the wiki. It currently only contains the agenda.
<ara> well, thanks everybody
<ara> bye,
<boredandblogging> @now
<ubottu> boredandblogging: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 23 2008, 18:44:48 - Next meeting: Java Team in 19 hours 15 minutes
<calc> hi
 * slangasek waves
<liw> yo
<slangasek> evan won't make it today; he called to let me know his ISP is experiencing a massive outage and they can't tell him when they'll be back up
 * ArneGoetje yawns
<liw> yo
<doko> good morning
<asac> hi
<TheMuso> Hey folks./
<TheMuso> Jp[e all your trips home were uneventful.
<TheMuso> gah cold fingers.
<doko> so who should be here? slangasek, liw, asac, TheMuso, calc, bryce, ArneGoetje, ogra (away), ...
<calc> wow netsplit
<asac> james_w i guess
 * slangasek opens the floor: intrepid alpha-3 tomorrow
<liw> doko, from Colin's mail: asac, ArneGoetje, bryce, calc, evand, james_w, liw, TheMuso, doko, ogra, slangasek
<slangasek> grab your test cases here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all
<asac> anyone has anything on agenda?
<doko> ohh, james_w as well
<liw> slangasek, the ISOs are ready for testing now?
<ArneGoetje> rsyncing...
<doko> no, just lets go through the list of people about the specs targeted for hardy
<doko> s/hardy/intrepid/
 * doko upgrades quickly 
<asac> lol
<slangasek> liw: everything except desktop should be viable; the desktop images are rsyncable but not yet worth testing
<liw> slangasek, ook, I'll see about helping with that tomorrow (it's past midnight already...)
<doko> ArneGoetje: could you start the specs state?
<slangasek> liw: worth starting an rsync though, to save time later
<liw> slangasek, sure
<ArneGoetje> doko: well, I'm basically working on language-selector to finish the language-support package split we have started in Hardy and make it selectable in the UI.
<ArneGoetje> doko: good progress in this case
<doko> looks like "not delayed"
<ArneGoetje> doko: I expect it to be ready for FF
<doko> asac: continue?
<asac> no :)
<asac> j.k
<asac> well. for firefox and such the biggest building blocks are flash experience and safe upgrading
<asac> flash experience is partly done. the tricky bits still missing though
<asac> safe upgrading is probably on track as we have some improvements in bzr
<asac> the other thing is NM 0.7, which should enter intrepid after alpha3
<doko> is there something workable for armel?
<doko> (flash)
<asac> doko: how would i know ;) ... i guess gnash builds in debian.
<slangasek> asac: is 3g-networking-intrepid covered under "NM 0.7"?
<asac> yes
<doko> asac: do you think these are on track for ff?
<asac> thats basically it. feedback is good so far.
<asac> some cards appear to be not recognized as "modem" by hal. the others work out of the box.
<asac> doko: hard to say. NM 0.7 certainly wont be much tested until we reach beta
<doko> bryce: continue?
<liw> hmm: --- [bryce] idle 291:31:02, signon: Sun Jul  6 17:36:01
<slangasek> I haven't seen bryce speak up yet; maybe skip him for now and come back if he shows up?
<doko> calc, continue?
<calc> ok
<calc> OOo upload is slightly delayed
<calc> Its now scheduled for 3.0rc1 to be uploaded week of Aug 21 after Alpha 4
<doko> which one, 2.4.x, or 3.0something?
<calc> i made a 2.4.1 upload last week to take care of the a3 oversized cd
<doko> could you target just a milestone?
<slangasek> (is that related to a spec? I don't see anything on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid)
<doko> this should be as good as rc-something
<calc> slangasek: yea, let me see
<calc> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ooo-intrepid-upload-schedule
<calc> i might still be able to get 3.0rc1 in before alpha4 its scheduled for aug 8
<doko> calc: what about an earlier snapshot?
<calc> but we were wanting to give it a week before, i should be free that weekend due to my wife having a large photoshoot so i can probably get it in on saturday
<calc> doko: i am planning on getting earlier snapshot into a PPA, hopefully by the end of this week, i was going to get it in last week but the 2.4.1 upload delayed it a bit
<calc> we didn't want to put 3.0 into intrepid directly until rc due to they may slip the schedule too much..
<doko> calc: please could you use the group ppa?
<calc> ok will do
<doko> thanks
<doko> ok, that's me then
<calc> so assuming no more slippage by OOo we will have 3.0rc in around aug 8 for FF
<slangasek> calc: do you mean that we don't want to *count* on putting 3.0 into intrepid directly until RC?
<calc> slangasek: yes, it could be that they slip the release past our release
<slangasek> 'cause if it's available sooner, surely it's better to have it in
<slangasek> right
<calc> unless we plan on just shipping a 3.0rc
<calc> well unless we are ok with doing that in case they slip i mean
<doko> calc: ususally the critical patches are in ooo-build, so I wouldn't bother that much if it's 3.0rc-
<calc> ok
<slangasek> not sure if we should get into a full discussion about that here, but I would note that hardy's support cycle is well past intrepid's, so security support isn't a concern for sticking with 2.4
<doko> +1
<doko> calc: please go ahead of debian. we'll have to have it releasable, not them
 * calc isn't planning on waiting on debian for this, as they are already frozen (aiui)
<liw> calc, Debian freezes next weekend, I think, but that's close enough
<calc> ok
 * doko doesn't have any specs, but "java in main". getting in shape, although we'll have to use three different jvms together with openjdk. next thing is to default default-jre/-sdk to openjdk. this will be done before ff.
<doko> I'm not sure if I will get a working python3 (not just the core package) in intrepid in ff.
<asac> doko: will the java applet situation on !i386 improve this cycle?
<doko> no, probably not. there is work done by fedora on the icedtea plugin, but it's currently not my focus (and still labeled as experimental)
<calc> doko: is openjdk-6 ready enough for me to attempt to switch OOo building to it?
<doko> calc: yes, there was never anything wrong with it (except being located in universe)
<doko> and you told me you did test it ;)
<calc> ok, great :)
<calc> yes it worked last year when i tested it
<doko> evend is not here; james_w, continue?
<doko> ahh, isp problems; liw, continue?
<slangasek> james_w is also having isp problems?
<liw> cleanup-cruft: progressing nicely (cleaning up prototype code from the sprint)
<liw> python-memory-profiling-tool: stalled
<liw> get-rid-of-python-central-and-support: slow progress this week, need to finish the doc/spec
<liw> gobby-server-persistent-state: code works, waiting for reactions from IS and upstream
<liw> fast-lsb-release: not started yet
<liw> super-piuparts, lintian-harness-improvements: post feature freeze
<liw> no-fsck-at-boot: to be reassigned, but have concluded that it's not doable without new magic
<liw> </ul>
<doko> happy to look at the get-rid-of spec ... (we have to few get-rid-of specs overall ;)
<slangasek> get-rid-of-computers
<doko> liw: all specs in time?
<liw> I'm not critically late on anything, yet, if that's what you're asking :)
<doko> ok
<doko> ogra not here; slangasek, continue?
<slangasek> no approved specs assigned; I have the pam configuration magic which I'm working on and believe I can deliver in time for intrepid, but this isn't actually on the schedule anywhere officially at this point
<slangasek> (that's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PAMConfigFrameworkSpec)
<slangasek> 'sall for me, unless someone has questions
<doko> ok, TheMuso to close the list ...
<TheMuso> Desktop Accessibility Review spec: Still reading and understanding code and documentation for python-dbus/policykit interaction and reading docs for python-xlib/python-gtk, but am almost ready to port some code from gnome-session to python, that is used for checking that at-spi-registryd started correctly. This will be used in ubiquity-dm when accessibility is enabled for speech/magnification.
<TheMuso> I will certainly have the ubiquity stuff fixed up for FF, but will have to take things one at a time to get software sources/hardware testing ported to policykit/getting the UI accessible to the user.
<TheMuso> So certainly some of the spec will be completed by FF.
<TheMuso> Dmraid: Spent time with Colin at the sprint getting to understand partman internals, and now reading libparted code to educate it about dmraid/mapper devices for use with dmraid. Need to read vol_id code to link against dmraid shared library for use with providing better integration for vol_id/udev for use at boot.
<TheMuso> Confident that this will be complted by FF.
<doko> slangasek: did you see any specs not mentioned (besides from people not in the meeting)?
<slangasek> nope
<asac> TheMuso: how is sound going?
<TheMuso> asac: Since Debian is freezing soon, I am not sure whether they will hav e alsa 1.0.17. Once I know for sure, I'll either merge, or upload new upstream versions of the alsa bits. I also intend asking the kernel guys about getting alsa driver 1.0.17 into the kernel, so everything matches.
<TheMuso> I am still aware of the pc-speaker issue, and intend debugging that today. With luck, 1.0.17 will help solve it.
<slangasek> TheMuso: which alsa is in 2.6.26 upstream kernel, since skew caused problems for us before?
<TheMuso> slangasek: Still 1.0.16.
<slangasek> but we want to jump to 1.0.17 for some reason?
<asac> are all the sound issues we had with pulseaudio/alsa and flash now gone in a default intrepid install?
<TheMuso> Support for more hardware, and some more fixes, particularly for use with pulse.
<TheMuso> asac: Until we can use a sound card properly, not sure yet.
<asac> sure
<TheMuso> As for pulse itself, I highly doubt the new version will land for intrepid. Its still highly unstable.
<TheMuso> However itf it were to land, and we wanted it, we would have to go to alsa 1.0.17.
<slangasek> ah
<doko> any other business?
<liw> nothing from me
<slangasek> none here
<doko> 3
<doko> 2
<doko> 1
<doko> meeting ends ;) (I'm tired)
<liw> thanks and good night
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<asac> off
<calc> by3
<calc> er bye :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-24
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 24 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 28 Jul 14:00 UTC:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile
 * pitti waves
<Hobbsee> heya pitti!
 * pitti hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :D
<seb128> hey
 * mvo_ waves
<MacSlow> hey seb128, mvo
 * Keybuk laughs evily
<kwwii> hi
<pitti> Keybuk: *phear*
<MacSlow> ?
<Keybuk> MacSlow: how to confuse Ken: ring him and speak german ;)
<MacSlow> yeah :)
<MacSlow> I can do that too
<Keybuk> ok, so let's get going
 * pitti <- happy; just figured out how to finally get a working PackageKit integration into jockey \o/
<Keybuk> how is everybody?  sprint-flu hopefully dying off now?
<pitti> never had it, fortunately
 * mvo_ feels a lot better, almost normal
<seb128> me neither
 * MacSlow still suffers a bit from not enough sleep during Istanbul and London
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<MacSlow> but the sunny weather currently helps
<Keybuk> I've put together an agenda for today
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-07-24
<Keybuk> did I miss anyone's items?
<Keybuk> okay, guess not
<Keybuk> only outstanding action was for mpt, who is busy with LP 2.0
<Keybuk> so we'll carry that over
<Keybuk> mvo: proxy setting location
<mvo_> ok - currently the system-service backend sets /etc/apt/apt.conf
<mvo_> however I wonder if it should also do something like /etc/environment or /etc/profile
<mvo_> what are your opinions on this?
<Keybuk> did you talk to gustavo about what Landscape will use?
<mvo_> I mailed him, but he did told me yet, what location they are going to use
<mvo_> we could of couse just standardize on one like /etc/default/proxy
<Keybuk> pitti: do you have a strong opinion?
<pitti> I was just checking, I thought /etc/profile was a conffile
<pitti> but it's not
<pitti> but /etc/environment sill sounds better to me
<pitti> mvo_: for proxy, a default file works as well, but then you need to change all our shell and DE session programs to read it
<pitti> and /etc/environment is already evaluated, no?
<mvo_> pitti: indeed, this is why I would prefer the (slightly more dogy) /etc/environmnet approach
<pitti> we speak about setting $HTTP_PROXY and $HTTPS_PROXY, right?
<mvo_> pitti: yes
<pitti> mvo_: why is it dodgy?
 * pitti doesn't see anything wrong with it?
<seb128> isn't /etc/default/locale supposed to be used to set the locale?
<seb128> I though environment was a pam thing
<pitti> we have /etc/default/locale nowadays (I never understood why), but /e/e still sets $PATH
<mvo_> my understanding is that its not a real shell file but something that pam reads (we had a similar dicussion about gdm iirc). I don't remember the details unfortunately
<seb128> pitti: environment is a pam thing and some people refuse to abuse it for other things because it's not meant for that
<seb128> ask cjwatson for details
<pitti> then it shouldn't be called 'environment'
<Keybuk> cjwatson: care to weigh in?
<pitti> ok, might be better then, if Colin has a strong opinion
<mvo_> I personally think that if it is still there, we can and should use it. if it is not meant to be used, we should get rid of it :)
<cjwatson> seb128 mischaracterises my opinions slightly
<pitti> I just don't understand why it's wrong to put environment variables in /etc/environment :)
<seb128> pitti: well, he had for the gdm discussion IIRC
<cjwatson> /etc/environment should not be treated as if it were a shell script
<pitti> right
<cjwatson> its quoting rules may differ
<seb128> cjwatson: I didn't try to summarize your opinion there but rather what I understood of the discussion and mentioned that we should rather ask you for clarification
<cjwatson> I don't see anything exceptionally wrong with setting default environment variables there, and using pam_getenv to retrieve them when one is outside a PAM context
<cjwatson> seb128: ok
<Keybuk> why did the locale stuff move out of there?
<mvo_> excellent, thanks cjwatson - then I will just just that
<cjwatson> Keybuk: an exceedingly long and tedious argument over gdm
<seb128> gdm is using /etc/default/locale nowadays and not the pam_getenv thing for the record
<Keybuk> ok, sounds like there's a consensus ?
<pitti> seb128: so GNOME sessions don't use the $PATH set there?
<Keybuk> pitti: if I were to guess, I'd say that sessions do but gdm itself doesn't
<cjwatson> the point of /etc/default/locale was to have gdm itself read it
<pitti> hmkay; well we'll hardly need http proxies in gdm
<cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=214898
<ubottu> Debian bug 214898 in locales "Create /etc/default_locale containing the selected locale" [Wishlist,Closed]
<seb128> pitti: the gdm config has its own PATH definition
<pitti> unless the new gdm has a browser built in, of course :)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk>  * Integration of guest login (pitti)
<pitti> assume we'll have a backend service which starts a guest session and cares about the privilege stuff
<pitti> where would we like to expose this functionality in the UI?
<pitti> so far my idea is an additional f-u-s-a entry
<Keybuk> I understood that the spec called for this to be in f-u-s-a
<pitti> but we should offer it somewhere else, too
<Keybuk> that's certainly where Mark thinks it should go
<Keybuk> should we?
<pitti> right, but people might have removed that
<pitti> it shuold also be accessible through the "switch user" dialog or screen, IMHO
<pitti> but the log out dialog, as it is, already has too many buttons
<Keybuk> we don't have a dialog like that though?  switch user goes back to gdm
<seb128> it should be in the gdmflexiserver list and in fusa imho
<mvo_> the gdm face-browser comes as a natural place in mind
<pitti> Keybuk: I mean the three-buttoned "log out $user" dialog
<Keybuk> mvo_: breaks the spec; the requirement is for a logged in user to allow someone else to be a guest
<pitti> mvo_: yeah, but I doubt that we'll get the new gdm for intrepid
<seb128> mvo_: well, the face browser is used for login screen too and we don't want to have the option on login screen
<Keybuk> not for someone to walk up and log in
<pitti> right, gdm shouldn't expose it if there's noone logged in
<mvo_> aha, ok
<pitti> I actually tried to integrate this functionality into the old gdm, but that code is a mess
<pitti> gently poke it, and it starts segfaulting around
<pitti> (apart from the fact that the structure is very deep and hairy)
<pitti> we could add a 4th button to the "log out" dialog, but ETOOMANYBUTTONS
<pitti> (no Ted here?)
<pitti> Ted offered me to care about the integration into fusa
<seb128> pitti: there is no logout dialog at the moment
<kwwii> since we have been in the new team it has been unclear which meetings we need to go to
<seb128> or not a stable one
<pitti> hm? sure it is
<seb128> pitti: expect the current one to go before intrepid
<seb128> vuntz wants to merge the opensuse one
<seb128> so we will either use the new one
<pitti> seb128: right; but we'll still have something that appears if you click on "Log out martin", surely?
<seb128> or be asked to get the old one back
<seb128> pitti: right, just pointing out "don't bother patching the current code, it'll change"
<pitti> right
<pitti> I think initially we'll patch fusa
<pitti> but I'd still like to have it *somewhere* else
<seb128> that should not change while we are using old gdm ;-)
<pitti> well, if you guys are happy with just fusa, fine for me
<Keybuk> sounds like this is something we have a little while to discuss before it needs to be done
<Keybuk> f-u-s-a is certainly the one place it should be
<seb128> right, agreed
<seb128> +having it in the gdmflexiserver list would be nice
<pitti> at some point the new gdm will natively support guests, and we'll get it
<pitti> unfortunately they don't respond to me at all
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk>  * Default theme in Intrepid (pitti)
<pitti> 'they' -> UPSTREAM
<pitti> ah, yeah
<seb128> they moved to other things apparently, ie gnome-session dbus branch
<kwwii> w00t, pitti is doing the themeing now?
<pitti> I wondered which theme will be the default for intrepid installs and upgrades?
<pitti> human or the black one?
<pitti> kwwii: at least wondering about it, yes :)
<kwwii> pitti: the black one will get one more update before the weekend and sometime next week I will put a light one back in as default
<pitti> personally I could live with having the black one by default on fresh installs, but I'd complain heavily if we intend to auto-upgrade to the dark one
<MacSlow> if you need mockups when thinking about where to put things -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/login-experience-mockup.ogg
<MacSlow> for any proposals
<kwwii> pitti: right, in any case it should not change what you already have, that would be quite a shock
<pitti> kwwii: ah, so this is just for getting more wirespread testing?
<kwwii> to be honest I have been waiting for a little bird to whisper in my ear tellling me to keep the dark on in as default
<kwwii> pitti: exactly
<pitti> auto-upgrading a black-on-white theme to essentially the inverse is ergonomically bad in various ways, yeah
<pitti> that was my primary concern
<kwwii> no worries then
<OgMaciel> MacSlow: I must say: WOW!
<seb128> MacSlow: looks good ;-)
<pitti> ok, thanks; I'm happy again :)
 * pitti hugs kwwii
<OgMaciel> don't mind me :)
<kwwii> there is one issue to discuss, themeing gdm
<mvo_> nice work MacSlow
<kwwii> which gdm are we using, how do we theme it, etc
<MacSlow> OgMaciel, seb128 to some extend the graphics work already... but most of the integration is still missing
<pitti> MacSlow: BLING
<OgMaciel> MacSlow: it is defintely a great mockup
<Keybuk> ok
<MacSlow> mvo_, seb128: but you saw part of that already in London... I showed it to you afaik
<Keybuk> the sponsoring queue
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<seb128> MacSlow: yes
<pitti> kwwii: getting 2.22 into intrepid would be a royal PITA, I'm afraid
<Keybuk> please check through that and make sure you're not unnecessarily sitting on anything
 * mvo_ nods
<kwwii> pitti: so pretty much the same stuff we have had in the past?
<pitti> I think that is a difficult problem long-term, actualy
<pitti> Fedora doesn't seem to give a rat's^W^W^W care about upgrades at all
<Keybuk> otherwise, is there any other business?
<Keybuk> pitti: they care a little bit ;) I'm getting whined at because you can't upgrade from upstart 0.3.x to 0.5 cleanly
<pitti> the gdm issue is a pretty interesting topic indeed
<seb128> (I'm on swap day tomorrow, just for notice)
<kwwii> pitti: and it seems that nobody is interested in it :p
<pitti> Keybuk: heh; but in the new gdm almost everything is missing that the old one has, xdmcp, auto-login, configuration files, etc.; and no automatic conf upgrade either
<Keybuk> Fedora really seem to be
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> how can I put this diplomatically
<Keybuk> rushing a lot of features into F10
<Keybuk> it's like they're trying to prove how awesome contributing upstream is
<Keybuk> and landing just about everything that anybody's working on
<pitti> it seems like two full months of upstream work in order to put all the missing bits into the new gdm
<Keybuk> they reckon they'll have kernel mode setting
<Keybuk> a replacement rhgb (plymouth)
<pitti> I don't think any of us has the time for doing that
<Keybuk> DeviceKit instead of HAL
<Keybuk> full PK/CK
<Keybuk> new gdm
<pitti> F9 already has the new gdm
<MacSlow> speaking of Xorg -> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=oscon_2008_x&num=1 :)
<pitti> Keybuk: DK -> s/instead of/in addition/? or do they really do the entire transition in one huge step?
<Keybuk> dunno
<Keybuk> davidz had a small panic
<MacSlow> pitti, I wanted to take a llook at plymouth... but not with the currently little time at hand
<Keybuk> OMG SO MUCH WORK type of thing
<pitti> $ apt-cache rdepends hal|wc -l
<pitti> 62
<pitti> that was slightly easier in warty :)
<Keybuk> I can't imagine they can drop HAL
<pitti> the new user admin tool as well then?
<pitti> since system-config-user has some really scary mechanism to become root
<Keybuk> *nods*
<pitti> anyway, seems we are either stuck with the old gdm forever, or at some point have to say "screw configuration and screw autologin" and swallow the new one
<Keybuk> anyway, since we have no other business, let's end the meeting now so other people can do other things ;)
<pitti> right
<Keybuk> pitti: or implement config and autologin
 * MacSlow needs to go to the loo
<MacSlow> that's urgent :)
<seb128> pitti: well, they are discussing it upstream
<Keybuk> isn't upstream just RH ?
<seb128> multi-display will come back when they get multi-seat support in consolekit
<seb128> Keybuk: the old maintainer which he still trying to contribute works for sun
<cjwatson> we need autologin for the installer experience to be sane, btw
<seb128> s/he/is
<cjwatson> (or else do foul things to bypass gdm)
<seb128> there is autologin now apparently, it's just hidden in gconf
<seb128> they have no gdmsetup for the new version
<seb128> and no config migration
<seb128> multi-display is not possible
<seb128> there is no xdmcp option in the login screen
<seb128> also there is no graphical banner
<seb128> but that's something we would not care a lot about if we get the new face-browser
<seb128> though people who don't have the hardware for that will fallback to the standard GTK banner
<kwwii> whenever we figure out which gdm we are using and how it needs to be themed, be sure to think of telling me please ;-)
<pitti> multi-display as in "two running user sessions in parallel"?
<seb128> "+ GDM doesn't support multi-display.  This means that distros that
<seb128>    want to support users with terminal-server, thin client, or other
<seb128>    novel setups will not be able to migrate to the new GDM rewrite until
<seb128>    this is addressed."
<seb128> pitti: that's what the previous upstream wrote on the list
<seb128>  
<seb128> oh, btw in case that's interesting information for somebody they added policykit support to set system default settings to gconf in svn
<pitti> mvo__: ^
<mvo__> pitti: I read about it the other day
<seb128> yeah, I think I mentionned it during the sprint when you were speaking about the proxy changes
<pitti> brb, have to reboot (intrepid kernel struck me again)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Java Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 28 Jul 14:00 UTC:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile
<persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
<Koon> o/
<Guest63363> I'm
 * dbhole is (Deepak Bhole from Red Hat)
<Koon> dbhole: Thierry here, thanks for coming !
<dbhole> np!
 * persia looks for slytherin
<slytherin> I am here
<persia> OK.  Let's get started then.
<persia> Firstly, my apologies for not getting the minutes out.  I'm editing the page now, and should have the history for future review.
<persia> First up, Roadmap review:
<persia> OpenJDK is now fully in main: moving that to Done.
<persia> Robilad sends apologies due to OSCON, so we'll skip integration with the server stack
<persia> Any volunteers to drive optimisation?
<slytherin> optimization as in 'remove duplication'?
<persia> optimisation as in "Identify possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack"
<persia> OK.  I'm dropping this from the Roadmap, as we've had a few meetings where nobody wanted to drive it.  If anyone wishes to do so in the future, we can add it back.
<slytherin> Ok.
<persia> Next: slytherin: can you update on status of "Transition Java packages from multiverse to universe where possible."?
<slytherin> Yes. I am currently evaluating packages. And I have come up with a list. Unfortunately the list is not online anywhere. I will put up a page by Saturday with details.
<persia> Great.  Any blocking issues?
<slytherin> Nothing. Except few FTBFS. :-)
<persia> Next: Koon: can you update on status of "Maven packaging support options"?
<Koon> Yes. I've drafted a spec at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec that shows what the problem is -- now the document is open for anyone's suggestions on how to do it.
<Koon> I invited Deepak here to explain to us how it was done in JPackage/Fedora, this would be one of the solutions.
<Koon> (if all compatible with Debian policies)
<dbhole> Hi guys.. I am Deepak. I wrote the patches for maven that went into JPackage, and subsequently Fedora
<dbhole> our motivation was two fold: 1) allow full offline builds 2) use jars from the system
<persia> dbhole: would you mind if we finished the Roadmap review quickly, and then focused on that?
<dbhole> oh, oops.. sorry I thought that was my cue :) sure, just let me know when to talk!
 * persia may have failed to post some URLs to make this clear
<persia> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> Roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap
<dbhole> ah, hadn't seen that
<persia> missing item from the Roadmap discussed last meeting: slytherin: did you get any feedback from Debian regarding a consistent version of libraries for intrepid/lenny?
<slytherin> persia: No. I didn't follow up on that, sorry.
<persia> slytherin: No worries.  Please bring it as a new agenda item if you get a chance later.
<persia> OK.  Roadmap review complete.
<persia> Next item: Presentation of the JPP Maven patchset by Deepak Bhole
<persia> dbhole: All yours :)
<dbhole> alright!
<dbhole> okay, so I will start off with what I mentioned above: our motivation was two fold: 1) allow full offline builds 2) use jars from the system
<dbhole> while maven2 does have an offline switch, it doesn't strictly work. It will still go online to determine snapshot versions, or latest versions (when none are specified in the pom)
<dbhole> JPackage (JPP)/Fedora have a single patch that fixes both issues. It ensures that maven will never go online no matter what, and it makes it so that maven can read files from the local filesystem
<dbhole> to make it be offline, the patch injects code into certain places where maven tries to determine whether or not it should be going online (for snapshots, missing versions, etc.)
<Koon> dbhole: is the patch specific to the Fedora-way the Java libraries are laid out on the filesystem ?
<dbhole> Koon: Yes, it is. However, there are 2 components .. 1) Patch 2) 2 java files that define a "repository layout" .. while the patch does have some code specific to fedora/jpp layout (changing code in maven bootstrap files) .. most of the spefici code is in the layout .java files
<Koon> afaict our layout is simple : everything in /usr/share/java
<Koon> so it shouldn't be too difficult to change for a Java programmer
<dbhole> Koon: great, that sounds similar to JPP/Fedora. Only one slight difference there though is that JPP/Fedora also uses subdirectories under /usr/share/java under certain cases
<dbhole> Koon: But that couldn't require any changes to the patch set, as the patch itself needs to no nothing about subdirectories and what not
<persia> Ubuntu also has subdirectories in /usr/share/java in some special cases (e.g. openoffice)
<dbhole> s/couldn't/shouldn't
<dbhole> ah okay, yes then the layouts are very similar in Ubunto and JPP/Fedora
<Koon> dbhole: how do you solve the .pom part ?
<dbhole> Koon: Initially when maven was introduced, the packages did not install poms, so we created a maven2-common-poms package, that supplied all kinds of poms. Now, as we rebuilds/update other packages, we are starting to add poms to those packages itself
<dbhole> the patch set allows definition of "default" poms (those that comes from maven2-common-poms) .. when packages install their own poms in a different locations, those new poms automatically take preference
<persia> dbhole: Are there any cases where you've found it to be better to have the .pom file in maven2-common-poms, or is that just a pragmatic convenience package?
<dbhole> persia: nope, we always prefer the package to have it's own pom, because a pom installed by the package is more likely to have correct dependencies that one installed by the common poms package, which may have older poms
<Koon> dbhole: I was wondering if shipping them artificially with the source that require them was a simpler solution -- because having a dependency system parallel to the dpkg one doesn't sound too good to me
<persia> Maybe we could create e.g. dh_pom to help do something like we do which shlibs for C?
<slytherin> persia: +1
<slytherin> but in this case we need to calculate build dependencies. AFAIK, dh_shlibs calculates runtime dependencies
<dbhole> Koon: how do? for example if maven needs plexus-utils, do you mean ship plexus-utils pom with maven?
<dbhole> s/do/so
<persia> slytherin: Ah, right, and automated calculation of build-dependencies is frowned upon.
<Koon> dbhole: no, we /could/ (though it's dirty), take all poms downloaded by the "normal maven", fix them so that they require the right versions, and make a giant patch to the source that creates the appropriate pom files under .m2
<slytherin> I have a question.
<persia> Koon: That sounds like the maven2-common-poms solution, which was identified as less good.
<Koon> persia: sure. I just fear that updating/writing those poms might be very dangerous and can BreakYourBuilds(tm)
<dbhole> Koon: Right, but then that would require more work for each package. With our current system, all our spec file does is run "mvn-jpp" and everything just works
<Koon> dbhole: ok so in your experience it's not breaking that often
<dbhole> persia: the common-poms file is not a permanent solution. As more packages in the stack start installing their own poms, the idea is that eventucally we can just get rid of common-poms package
<dbhole> Koon: nope .. specially once after each package installs their own pom, from that point own, the poms are automatically correct
<dbhole> s/own/on
<persia> Koon: I see two different use cases: firstly is the Java developer wanting to use maven.  For that, we want maven to work, and can expect the developer to install the required libraries (as with -dev in C).
<Koon> dbhole: what happens if a java library is updated but no .pom file is shipped with it... that would break the common_poms, right ?
<persia> Secondly is using maven for automated builds on the buildds, for which we manually set Build-Depends anyway, so we know them to be complete.
<persia> dbhole: Right.  Based on that, I'm arguing against introducing common-poms in Ubuntu.
<dbhole> Koon: correct, if a java library (that does not install it's own pom) is updated and the commons-poms installs an older version of that pom, there will be a failure
<Koon> persia: in case (1) would the developer not use the auto-magically-download of maven ?
<persia> Koon: Not if we patch maven to not do that.  We only ship one maven, with one behaviour.
<Koon> persia: ah, that would be different to the fedora way, then. They have two mavens: mvn and mvn-jpp
<persia> Anyway, I don't think we want developers to use auto-magically-download, as it means the result is less likely to work in Ubuntu.
<persia> Oh.  Hrm.  I'm not sure then.
<dbhole> persia: The behavior of maven to use the local file system is completely optional. That is a key feature of our patchset.. if one runs "mvn", it will behave like upstream maven 100%
<dbhole> only mvn-jpp alters behaviour
<Koon> persia: we can't just package everuything a java dev would want
<mikegr___> I have a question, too. how does a single java package creator know that it's library with a specific filename isn't already delivered by another package if all libraries are stored in a flat directory?
<persia> mikegr___: Contents.gz is one means to check.
<persia> Koon: I'd like to package everything, but I understand what you mean :)
<Koon> persia: I would go with the double-version, otherwise we'll alien the java dev community
<persia> That makes sense.
<persia> OK.  Anyone have any objections to looking at Fedora's mvn-jpp and using that as a model for our maven packages?
<persia> Any more questions for dbhole?
<Koon> to sum it up: we apparently could go with the -jpp patchset, we might not want to have common-poms though, but rather have a qa pass on all libraries to ship pom with them
<Koon> dbhole: what would be the patches to use
<Koon> maven2-JPackageRepositoryLayout.java
<Koon> maven2-jpprepolayout.patch
<dbhole> Koon:  maven2-jpprepolayout.patch maven2-JPackageRepositoryLayout.java and maven2-MavenJPackageDepmap.java
<Koon> about the depmap, cuold you briefly explain how it works ?
<Koon> that's something to proovide with the package to-build-with-maven right ?
<slytherin> I have a suggestion.
<slytherin> What we can do first is make maven work in offline mode and rely on the packager for correct build dependencies.
<dbhole> Koon: Sure. So because we want to use the libraries on the local fs, we need a way to tell maven how to map the dependencies as it sees it, to where those libraries are on the system. That is the basic idea of the depmap.. it serves as a "mapping config" for "libraries as maven knows it" to "library on filesystem"
<Koon> slytherin: maven won't work without pom files
<slytherin> Koon: Let's say we are trying to build a package which already had pom. We force maven to not download dependencies from third party repositories.
<Koon> dbhole: ok, and if the file is in /usr/share/java you just put GROUPID=/ ?
<slytherin> At the same time, we rely on developer to know correct build dependencies. This is first part of teh spec.
<slytherin> ï»¿Then we can start looking into how we can calculate build dependencies based on .pom files.
<dbhole> Koon: No, for historical reasons (they way jpackage packaged maven 1.0/1.1), we use groupid=JPP for /usr/share/java .. and any subdirs beneath are appended ... e.g. /usr/share/java/plexus = JPP/plexus for groupid
<Koon> dbhole: ok.
<slytherin> DO we use jpackage at all in Debian/Ubuntu?
<Koon> dbhole: last question about build-time maven plugins
<dbhole> Koon: also, as each package installs it's own pom, we also make it add it's own dependencies in a central file.. which is why mvn-jpp rarely needs a dependency map specification
<dbhole> er
<Koon> dbhole: if you take Geronimo for instance, the maven build starts with building a series of geronimo-maven-plugins
<Koon> dbhole: would those coexist peacefully with the system-installed ones ? I suppose yes ;)
<dbhole> we make a package install it's dependencies map in a single file, I mean
<dbhole> Koon: yes, they would
<dbhole> Koon: plugins can be packaged and added on top as needed under various locations in /usr/share/java .. as long as the mapping is right, they work fine
<Koon> dbhole: about the central file, it's a single file or a depmap.d directory ?
<Koon> slytherin: no, it's RPM only atm
<dbhole> Koon: currently a central file, /etc/maven/maven-dempap.xml ... the packages install their own fragment under /etc/maven/fragments/ .. and in postinstall, they cat that into the central file
<Koon> dbhole: ok, we might need to review that for debian policy reasons.
<Koon> Thank you very much for all those precisions
<dbhole> Koon: sure.. you can easily change that, all of that logic is in the .java files
<dbhole> Koon: no problem, glad I could help!
<Koon> dbhole: if someone tries to implement that, I'm pretty sure we'll have more questions :)
<dbhole> certainly! my email address is dbhole@redhat.com if any further questions come up
<dbhole> (for those that didn't it)
<dbhole> er, didn't have it
<persia> dbhole: Thanks a lot for explaining in such detail.
 * dbhole should not have skipped on coffee today
<persia> Last item on today's agenda: About Scala and how to help
<dbhole> persia: you're welcome
<persia> mikegr___: The floor is yours
<mikegr___> hello, I'm not familiar with packaging, but I would like to add latest version of scala to ubuntu.
<mikegr___> there is an old package with version 2.6.1 which is from debian.
<mikegr___> and a request for this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scala/+bug/239557
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239557 in scala "Update Scala 2.7.1.final has been released" [Undecided,New]
<mikegr___> :-)
<mikegr___> so is someone working on this or how could l help
<mikegr___> should/may I contact the old maintainer?
<persia> mikegr___: The bug is not currently assigned to anyone, which usually means nobody is working on it in Ubuntu.
<slytherin> mikegr___: is the package orphaned in Debian?
<persia> As this update would also fix some release critical bugs for Debian (from what I see), you might contact the Debian maintainer to see how you could help.
<persia> If that doesn't work, I'd recommend building an updated source package and attaching a diff.gz to the Ubuntu bug for review (remember to assign yourself the Ubuntu bug if you are working on it).
<mikegr___> ok. what link can you give me for a first read regrarding packaging?
<mikegr___> anyway I will contact the maintainer and come back to you.
<mikegr___> thanks for the hint about this content.gz. i'm newbie on that.
<persia> There was a good page on the Debian wiki about Java packaging, but I can't find it right now.http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/java-policy/ may provide some interesting information.
<persia> OK.  Anyone have any last minute items for the agenda?
<slytherin> I have one.
<persia> slytherin: Go.
<slytherin> damn, I forgot what I had to say. :-(
<slytherin> Leave it.
<persia> slytherin: Just add it to the wiki when you think of it, and we'll do it next week,
<slytherin> sure
<persia> Last item: who would like to volunteer to write the minutes for today?
<slytherin> persia: I can but not immediately. Also I have not written minutes before so please guide me.
<persia> slytherin: That'd be great.  Thanks.  Catch me to ask questions whenever.
<slytherin> ok
<persia> Next meeting is 31st July, 14:00 UTC.
<persia> Thanks everyone for coming.
<cjwatson> mikegr___: apt-file is a useful wrapper around searching Contents-$ARCH.gz, FYI
<mikegr___> cjwatson: thanks
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 28 Jul 14:00 UTC:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 28 Jul 14:00 UTC:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080724
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080724
<persia> There are no action items from last week.
<persia> There are no current agenda items.
<persia> Does anyone have anything they want to add to the agenda?
 * ogra waves
<ogra> nothing to add here :)
<ogra> persia, are we the only ones ?
<persia> ogra: At least the only ones yet to write anything :)
<ogra> heh
 * agoliveira is lurking around too.
<mkrufky> im sitting in, cuz im curious
<Java-Jim> same here
<ogra> well, it will likely be a short meeting if we dont have anything to discuss :)
<persia> Yep.  Unless anyone has anything, I'll end the meeting
<lool> Good short meeting!
<persia> Thanks everyone for coming.  Please add items to the agenda for next week, and we'll have something to discuss.  In the meantime, #ubuntu-mobile is the place to ask questions.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:10.
<agoliveira> Best one ever! You guys are getting good at it! :-D
<ogra> heh
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 28 Jul 14:00 UTC:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-25
<jussi01> !test > me
<ubottu> jussi01, please see my private message
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jul 14:00 UTC:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
<sistpoty> hi folks
 * persia waves
<sistpoty> ok, let's get started, shall we?
<persia> Who wants to chair today?
<cody-somerville> Hi folks
<sistpoty> persia: if noone volunteers, I'd go for it
 * cody-somerville voluntells sistpoty :)
<persia> OK.  Who does minutes?
<cody-somerville> I suppose I could
<sistpoty> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is sistpoty.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> I'll do announcements then.
<sistpoty> action cody-somerville to do minutes
<sistpoty> #action cody-somerville to do minutes
<sistpoty> arg...
<sistpoty> [action] cody-somerville to do minutes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cody-somerville to do minutes
<sistpoty> heh
<sistpoty> [action] persia to do announcements
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to do announcements
<sistpoty> so welcome everyone to the motu meeting :)
<sistpoty> looking at the agenda, it's pretty much empty. so anyone with a point right now?
<norsetto> .
<persia> Not that kind :)
<sistpoty> norsetto: should I put the "." as an idea? :P
 * norsetto take the point back
<cody-somerville> :]
 * cody-somerville raises his hand.
<sistpoty> ok, how about the motu key teams thingy? seems like the discussion has stalled
 * cody-somerville lowers his hand.
<sistpoty> anyone a good idea how to unstall it?
<sistpoty> or how to proceed?
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, I think we need to have a concrete proposal.
<cody-somerville> And then tell everyone "vote on it or be unhappy forever more"
<sistpoty> *nod*
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: would you like to take this into your hands?
<cody-somerville> Well, not exactly. I think I've really carried this conversation thus far and I don't want to my idea of how things to be to be adopted just because I'm the only one interested enough
<cody-somerville> *to have
<sistpoty> ok, "." taken ;)
<sistpoty> anyone else who'd like to volunteer?
<persia> cody-somerville: It doesn't have to be your idea.
<persia> We just need a proposal to move forward.  Currently, we don't have anything on which to debate.
<cody-somerville> I think we do
<cody-somerville> I divided it up,
<sistpoty> persia: if we wouldn't, we'd have consensus already and could move on, couldn't we?`
<cody-somerville> One person voiced that they didn't feel persia's idea would work for us
<cody-somerville> but no one else stepped up to say anything more
<persia> Right.  I phrased that badly.
<sistpoty> well, I also think that this idea doesn't work too well (for various reasons), but iirc noone really was in favor of that idea... correct?
<persia> There are issues outstanding.  There is contention.  I just have mostly seen different viewpoints, rather than anything on which we could agree or disagree.
<sistpoty> well, we could e.g. come to a vote about the voting system used
<persia> Certainly.
<sistpoty> (though I still don't know about the subtle differences to be honest *g*)
<persia> My feeling was more that a change in voting system wouldn't address the perceived issue: specifically that there are questions about the teams.
<norsetto> seems to me that the voting system should be the least of our worries
<sistpoty> persia: can you elaborate on these?
<sistpoty> norsetto: but iirc it got the most attention ;)
<norsetto> sistpoty: perhpas because people feel more confortable to talk about "technical"issues instead of "political" ones :-)
<persia> sistpoty: My impression was that there was dissatisfaction with the composition and activity of the teams.
<sistpoty> persia: hm... I seem to have failed to see this, any hints why you come to this conclusion?
<sistpoty> or let's better phrase, anything in particular people are worried about?
<sistpoty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi!
<LaserJock> is there a MOTU Meeting?
<NCommander> hola Laney
<NCommander> er LaserJock
<nhandler> Yes LaserJock
<persia> sistpoty: That was the impression I had from the initial mails on the subject.  Since then there's been discussion of voting methods.  If it's only about voting methods, maybe I misunderstood.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yep, you came right into it, we're just discussing motu key teams membership policy (and how to unstall it)
<sistpoty> persia: imo there was dissatisfaction that there was no clear policy, but I may be wrong (and biased due to being on a key team as well)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: ah thanks, I've been thinking a tad about that
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe you have a good idea how to unstall the discussion and how to proceed?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: sure
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sistpoty> then go ahead ;)
<NCommander> sistpoty, what stalled the discussion in the first place?
<LaserJock> don't vote unless you need to, communicate as often as possible, and favor working teams over beuracratically-laden hirearchies
<sistpoty> NCommander: not too sure, I'd say that noone really felt responsible to lead the discussion into reaching a consensus, but YMMV
<NCommander> sistpoty, well, what specifically is the issue then? (I'm sorry for arriving late)
<sistpoty> NCommander: membership policy in motu key teams (motu-sru, motu-release)... (/me looks for the initial thread)
<LaserJock> I think the voting method discussion, while interesting and useful, is really distracting from the intial goal
<NCommander> I assume this was brought up due to the fact we just lost two motu-sru's?
<sistpoty> NCommander: yep... it started with this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-May/003919.html
<NCommander> Well, I dunno what the existing policy is, but I'd recommend voting with just a signed email to a publically available list
<sistpoty> LaserJock: *nod*
<NCommander> What was decided thus far?
<sistpoty> well, as written prior, we imho need someone to take response for the discussion and care to reach the initial goal... however would anyone volunteer?
<NCommander> Ok
 * NCommander steps up
<NCommander> Lets simply go right down the list, and start with motu-sru
<NCommander> Beyond being an MOTU, are there any specific requirements you MUST have to hold this position?
<LaserJock> one of the key sticking points so far has been whether team membership requires a MOTU-wide refurendum or not
<LaserJock> i.e. can we just take people who offer or do we need to vote every time a member is added
<NCommander> I think it can be take people who offer UNLESS there is a reason to cap the number of available motu-sru seats
<NCommander> Any arguements for or against?
<sistpoty> NCommander: cody-somerville posted a pretty good summary of the discussion on ubuntu-motu, but I can't find the link right now
<LaserJock> NCommander: there are good arguments for both :-)
<persia> Well, when TB asked for the creation of MOTU SRU, it was intended to be a core group that had a high level of technical expertise for reviewing the impact of patches.
<NCommander> If its already been discussed, maybe its time for a vote.
<LaserJock> NCommander: is a vote needed?
<NCommander> On deciding if motu-sru should be open to all, or capped to specific number that you have to be elected to
<sistpoty> also the question is what exactly to vote upon? voting policy is one point that comes to my mind
<persia> sistpoty: "voting policy" meaning to take a vote on policy, or to policy on how votes are taken?
<NCommander> sistpoty, do I dare ask the current voting policy?
<sistpoty> persia: what voting system should be used
<LaserJock> do we need a vote on how to take a vote on voting on policy? :-)
<NCommander> rofl
<sistpoty> NCommander: there is no current policy, that's what started it all
<NCommander> May I purpose then a voting system which is simple, clear, and accountable?
<persia> LaserJock: If we are to adopt any given system, it only seems appropriate to select that system using that system as demonstration of how well the system works.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: what other points do you see worth to discuss, that have been raised on the mailing list already?
 * NCommander personally would recommend setting up devotee, and using MOTU/core-dev key rings for votes
<sistpoty> persia: argh... you create bootstrapping problems :P
<LaserJock> well, I personally would like to back the discussion up
<persia> sistpoty: Well, perhaps, but then I've never been a fan of voting.
 * NCommander nominates the Debian devotee system
<LaserJock> I think perhaps the issues are more fundamental and we're gonna get stalled each time
<NCommander> LaserJock, well, then someone needs to step up, and decide the matter
<LaserJock> I'm fairly convinced that we should only be voting in rare cases
<NCommander> I agree with LaserJock on this one
<NCommander> I figure though if we keep getting stalled, then forcing a vote to get things moving probably the best option
<LaserJock> *how* we vote is not so much the issue for me as *when* we vote
<cody-somerville> That adds in a whole heck load of complexity.
<persia> LaserJock: Can you describe "the issue"?  I'm also not feeling that the manner in which we vote is the core problem, but I'm not sure how to articluate it.
<NCommander> LaserJock, when someone calls, and its seconded
<LaserJock> well, it goes back to what I said earlier
<sistpoty> NCommander: ah, found the summary FYI: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-July/004227.html
<LaserJock> the question seems to me to be how we hold teams to be validated
<LaserJock> do we *have* to vote on members for them to be valid?
<NCommander> shit, someone just totalled my car
<NCommander> Bbl
<LaserJock> I think in the past ScottK has indicated that he believes they do
<cody-somerville> I think voting is the simplest way to do that
<LaserJock> so it seems to me that we need to figure out more clearly what our view of teams really is
<sistpoty> LaserJock: given the last motu-sru probs, I think the focus should be to have working teams in the first place (but OTOH I got flamed quite hard for stating that voting is not necessary back then *g*)
<persia> I think the simplest way is to just use the any-MOTU-can-veto model.
<LaserJock> persia: I think that kind of hits at the heart of the matter
<geser> persons for key positions (like ~motu-sru or ~motu-release) should somehow be "confirmed" by MOTU
 * cody-somerville nods with geser.
<cody-somerville> We have a hard enough time getting people to voice issues with approving new motus
<LaserJock> do we say "you can only do what the MOTU tell you" or "you just can't do what the MOTU tell you you cant" :-)
<sistpoty> persia: sounds like a plan... maybe combined with: "if veto then vote"
<cody-somerville> How are we going to get people to "veto"
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: "if there aren't any objections within 2 days I'm moving forward"
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: if somebody has a problem they'll rais it
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, but people won't do it
<LaserJock> if they care they will
<persia> sistpoty: Unless there's strong discussion to override a veto, or no other candidate, I'd rather not have someone voted who would have been rejected by any-MOTU-can-veto.
<cody-somerville> and then we'll have silently grudging
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, no, they won't
<cody-somerville> We see that already
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: why not?
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, Because people don't like to cause drama or speak their mind
<persia> Maybe that's the problem.  Why don't people complain in public?
<cody-somerville> people don't complain like they used to
<geser> if there is no veto does that mean that everybody is happy with the decision or just that nobody cared?
<cody-somerville> we can't trust people to voice their real opinion anymore
<cody-somerville> geser, the later
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: probably because they feel like they'll just be out voted
<LaserJock> :-)
<cody-somerville> *latter
<persia> geser: I'd like to believe that everybody is happy.  If nobody cares, the voting system really doesn't matter.
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, we don't use the voting model now
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: yes we do
<LaserJock> for quite a few things
<LaserJock> but it should be even more accentuated if a veto actually meant something
<sistpoty> geser: either way, we need functional teams
<persia> Let's focus on functional teams.
<LaserJock> +1
<persia> Without that, the rest doesn't matter.
 * cody-somerville has to run.
<persia> What do we need for functional teams?
<norsetto> persia: I think the possibility to remove people that do not perform is essential
<cody-somerville> Before I go, I'd like to note that none of the times these meetings occur are good for me.
 * cody-somerville waves.
<persia> norsetto: We have the mechanism to hear complaints now.  Could we just use that?
<sistpoty> well, speaking as a member of motu-release, I guess we need a policy to confirm (or reject) current members... currently we have an unclear status, which is hindering to move on imho
<sistpoty> cya cody-somerville
<norsetto> persia: we could, it will be a good step in the right direction anyway
<geser> cody-somerville: what meeting times do you prefer?
<cody-somerville> geser, an hour later would be good
 * cody-somerville thinks this topic will be a good UDS session :P
<persia> cody-somerville: That's December though :(
<sistpoty> norsetto: I think it's hard to find out if s.o. doesn't perform... or at least takes some guts (the motu-release post complaining about team colleagues wasn't one I did from the bottom of my heart)
 * norsetto notes we never discuss MOTU stuff at UDS
<cody-somerville> norsetto, we did quite a bit at the last one
<norsetto> cody-somerville: off doors
<geser> persia: I prefer to know when nobody cares instead of assuming everybody is happy
<persia> Let's defer MOTU stuff at UDS for now: we can organise some sessions later, but it's well off topic for team issues.
<LaserJock> ok, so can we look more at fundamentals?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: +
<sistpoty> 1
<LaserJock> the way I look at it
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, It seems to me we're always going back to "fundamental"? Why aren't we ever clearing that up?
<LaserJock> if people are focused on doing the work of the team
<persia> geser: I can understand that.  On the other hand, I've not seen any indication of anything else for a while, and would rather focus on working teams than everyone.
<LaserJock> then we shouldn't get in the way
<LaserJock> isn't it pretty much a fundamental MOTU philosophy to let people do as they please as long as they aren't violating some policy?
<LaserJock> so if a person becomes keenly interested in SRUs
<persia> Well, there's also the idea that we try to respect others goals and not interfere, but basically.
<LaserJock> unless there is some obvious objection why should we get in their way?
 * cody-somerville thinks maybe we need a fundamental MOTU philosophy wiki page or something.
<LaserJock> if it's on a wiki page I'd venture to say it's no long fundamental ;-)
<persia> TB has asked for a team of 5-7 members, so we ought limit the size to around that much.  As long as we don't have too many interested parties, we ought be fine.
<LaserJock> or rather "if it  *has* to be on a wiki page"
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, or maybe the barrier to MOTU has become too low
<LaserJock> hmm, not sure on that one
<LaserJock> again, if somebody I didn't think should be in MOTU SRU and I could back it up, I think I should be able to veto
<persia> cody-somerville: There are others who complain the barrier is higher than it has ever been.
<LaserJock> to me, the question with the leadership teams is not primarily about barriers, but about interests and activities
<cody-somerville> IMHO, I think any MOTU should be qualified to fill the roles of those teams
<LaserJock> we've had several "leadership teams" composed of very skilled people but the team basically didn't do anything
<cody-somerville> And it is just a matter of selecting the highest preferred subset
<persia> cody-somerville: TB has asked for MOTU to organise those best at those tasks to perform review.
<sistpoty> persia: just OOI, when did TB do all that?
 * cody-somerville nods.
<sistpoty> (as in any links to logs/mails/discussions)? I recall there was a topic set once, but not the outcome
<LaserJock> I just don't think all the voting and "selecting" get's us much of anywhere
<persia> sistpoty: For MOTU SRU, it was around the end of gutsy / beginning of hardy I think.
<persia> For MOTU Release, it was much earlier (I forget when).  Actually, MOTU Release may not be a TB mandate, but MOTU SRU was created specifically after a request by pitti to the TB.
<sistpoty> ah, good to know
 * persia doesn't have a working mouse right now, and hopes someone else can hunt the logs
<sistpoty> ok, we've discussed this for quite a while now, let's try to come to some conclusions, shall we?
<persia> For MOTU Release (then MOTU FFe or something) it might have been for Dapper?
 * NCommander is back
<cody-somerville> I'm in favour of confirmation via vote.
<LaserJock> 1 of my conclusions is to unstall we need to get away from the voting method discussion
<sistpoty> persia: not too sure, I recall that it was there for a very long time, but not when it was introduced ;)
 * persia seconds LaserJock
 * sistpoty agrees
<cody-somerville> I'm in favour of confirmation via vote.... and I veto anyone who opposes :P
<LaserJock> lol
<persia> I really like the idea of accepting interested parties unless 1) there is disagreement or 2) the team is overfull (in which case we vote for who is the best)
<LaserJock> I'm in favor of a simple guideline about how people can object to tings
<LaserJock> *things
<LaserJock> +1 to persia
<sistpoty> ok, let me try to put this into actions... how about:
<NCommander> +1 persia
<cody-somerville> Lets just vote and there is no question about if there is disagrement or not
<cody-somerville> The STV requires a quota to be met
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: voting sucks, lets not do it unless we have to :-)
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, We have to in this case
<sistpoty> 1st: "agreed" that we should get away from the voting discussion (to focus on the real issue instead)
<cody-somerville> We do it for CC and TB
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: why?
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, why not? :P
<LaserJock> no, you are affirming we have to, it is your case to make
<cody-somerville> Isn't the proof of burden on the opposition?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> and you are opposing doing nothing (the default)
<cody-somerville> *burden of proof
<cody-somerville> We already vote
<cody-somerville> so not voting is the opposition, no?
<sistpoty> 2nd: "action" persia to write proposal to motu list that interested parties should get accepted until disagreement or team is overfull
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: no, we have no system currently
<LaserJock> so I don't think voting is the default
<persia> sistpoty: accepted
<persia> cody-somerville: CC and TB and MC must be voted by their creation.  The other teams don't currently have policy.
<LaserJock> do we have a "how to object" document anywhere?
<sistpoty> 3rd: "action" LaserJock and cody-somerville to continue the discussion on the motu-list? *g*
<LaserJock> perhaps that might be an interesting thing to have written up, in general
<persia> LaserJock: We only have the document of how to complain about someone repeatedly behaving inappropriately.  Something with guidance for lighter cases would be good.
<cody-somerville> I don't like this system.
<persia> cody-somerville: What don't you like about it?
<sistpoty> (where 3rd would unstall the discussion I hope)
<cody-somerville> I rather speak up to show support then speak up to show opposition.
<geser> cody-somerville: you can object :)
<cody-somerville> I rather speak up to show support then speak up to show opposition.
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: well, that becomes kinda sticky
<persia> cody-somerville: If you only say things in support, shall we assume you object the rest of the time?
<persia> Is this true for others?  Need we get all of us to commit to each action?
<sistpoty> and maybe 4th: "action" that geser will play shephard and make sure the discussion stays on pace
 * persia notes that no election in Ubuntu since Dapper has ever included a majority of those eligible voting
<sistpoty> no, seriously everyone... the discussion right here is taking almost an hour, with different opinions voiced while nothing happened on the ml for quite some time.
<sistpoty> that makes me a little bit sad actually
<LaserJock> I think it's fundamentally more in line with Ubuntu/MOTU philosophy to let people have freedom to do what they want as long as there aren't objections
<sistpoty> seems like s.th. is going fundamentally wrong outside of motu-key teams
<norsetto> persia: thats a bit of an understatement
<LaserJock> as oppposed to only letting people to do what is explicitly allowed
<cody-somerville> Okay, lets get rid of -sru and -release
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: why?
<cody-somerville> People obviously don't care enough to have it.
<geser> sistpoty: the problem is how to get an opinion from the majority of MOTU
<cody-somerville> Lets just go pure-motu style and let everyone be in -sru and -release
<persia> cody-somerville: We at least can't get rid of -sru.  It's mandated by TB.  I suspect the same is true of -release, but don't remember precisely.
<sistpoty> geser: kind of, I'd even say the problem is that everyone wants to state her/his opinion but doesn't care too much in the end
<cody-somerville> persia, I
 * NCommander feels that has bad idea written all over it
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: that seems a bit like a pendulum swing :-)
<NCommander> It's a bootstrapping problem because this is the first serious issue that can't be cleaner resolved
<persia> sistpoty: That seems like a good summation.  Any ideas as to how to address it?
<NCommander> persia, I think we need to boil everything down to the basic choices, and then open voting up to every MOTU
<sistpoty> persia: actually my action points weren't all kidding... if s.o. takes over the issue on the mailing list and really cares that an outcome will be reached, I think we'll come to a conclusion
<sistpoty> it's just a bit to force people into stating their opinions, take on what there are different opinions and have some means (that's where a poll served quite well in the past) about these last bit of differences
<persia> sistpoty: I think you're right, and given the time the other issue can be for another meeting.  I still think both the key teams issue and the who cares issue are worth addressing somehow.
<sistpoty> ok, so who'd like to take over final responsibility over the motu-key team issue?`
<LaserJock> well, is there really a separate issue?
<LaserJock> I personally don't see one
<NCommander> sistpoty, what does that entail specifically?
<sistpoty> to make it more rewarding, I'd say he/she should get all the duties of a shephard and is able to call for a vote if needed
<sistpoty> NCommander: it boils down to reading the summary from cody-somerville, see the follow up posts, look at what was discussed today, summarize it again call for other opinions and as soon as no objection or no agreemant can be reached to take action
<sistpoty> so not too much of an issue :P
 * NCommander steps forward if a non-MOTU is allowed to do so
<LaserJock> I'd say we can call the motu-key team thing as a non-issue
<persia> LaserJock: I disagree.
<LaserJock> and move on to better things
<persia> There seems sufficient interest in discussion that we ought resolve it.
<LaserJock> persia: why? we have current teams, we don't need new members?
<persia> LaserJock: Because it's an open item that should be closed.
<LaserJock> the fundamental issue makes sense
<sistpoty> NCommander: sure, maybe that would even help, since you're outside of motu and hence will server as someone unbiased?
<LaserJock> but I don't see anything specific to motu-key teams
<persia> LaserJock: Your recommendation which I'll write up based on interested parties.
<LaserJock> so I think we're going around talking about the wrong thigns
<geser> LaserJock: do you want to have this discussion when new members are needed again? I don't believe we have the time then to discuss first how new members are selected.
 * NCommander pulls out a giant gong
 * persia agrees with geser
<LaserJock> geser: that's not what I'm saying!
<LaserJock> I'm saying that if we take care of the root problem, then the key-team issue fixes itself
<LaserJock> if we can figure out how to deal with decisions then the key-team thing is a non-issue
<sistpoty> LaserJock: actually, what geser wrote is why I bring it up now: the motu-release discussion I started stalled, and I'd like to have a clear policy for membership rather sooner than later
<LaserJock> sure
<persia> LaserJock: Let's not stop working on this just because there are other things as well.
<geser> LaserJock: then I misunderstood you
<LaserJock> but key-teams is *not* the problem
<LaserJock> our inability to make decisions *is* the problem
<persia> LaserJock: Even if just a symptom, having some guidelines will reduce confusion in the future.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that's why I'm forcing you to come to s.th. right now... timer ticking :P
<LaserJock> persia: I'm just worried about making decisions too quickly about regarding key-teams that we have to redo later
<LaserJock> but whatever, if we can come up with something soon I'm all for it
<LaserJock> I'll take something over nothing ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: While I see your point, I also believe that taking a decision on this will be a step towards taking other decisions.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: how about you write your conclusions to the motu mailing list (remember, motu-meeting doesn't make decisions any longer, otherwise I might have called for a vote already :P)
<sistpoty> (LaserJock: and I'm quite happy to follow up if you do ;))
 * persia misses the old efficient process
<NCommander> sistpoty, is there a specific reason we can't simply have voting in the meeting?
 * LaserJock misses the older more efficient process ;-)
<sistpoty> heh, persia, seems like the old process did include votes :P
<sistpoty> NCommander: we're trying out the new process atm.
<LaserJock> ok, so let's wrap up with action points
 * NCommander comes back in a week
<sistpoty> ok, now I forgot my old points... let's start with
<persia> sistpoty: Yes, but of the quick uncomplicated sort :)
<LaserJock> NCommander: are you going to shepard our key-teams discussion?
<sistpoty> [action]
<MootBot> ACTION received:
<NCommander> I'll do it
<sistpoty> heh
<sistpoty> not that
<NCommander> Are we simply going to vote here on IRC< or are we going to do something formal?
<persia> NCommander: Neither.
<geser> is there a wiki page with current policies/guidelines? I never know what's current
<sistpoty> "action" eveveryone to state her/his opinion again on the mailing list
<persia> geser: ScottK was going to update MOTU Meetings, but hasn't yet.
<sistpoty> "action" NCommander to play shephard with the motu-key teams discussion and makes sure it reaches a conclusion
<NCommander> "accept" I take this responsibility
<sistpoty> anything else or any objections?
<sistpoty> 3
<sistpoty> 2
<LaserJock> wait
<sistpoty> 1
<sistpoty> hrmpf *g*
<LaserJock> wasn't persia going to do something?
<sistpoty> persia?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: but any objections to the other points from you?
<sistpoty> (so we could at least agree on a subset already *g*)
<persia> I was going to write up the mail to propose accepting volunteers unless there was an objection or it would push the team oversize.  In the former case, we seek other volunteers.  In the latter case, we vote.
<LaserJock> sistpoty: no, no objections from me
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> [action] eveveryone to state her/his opinion again on the mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  eveveryone to state her/his opinion again on the mailing list
<sistpoty> [action] NCommander to play shephard with the motu-key teams discussion and makes sure it reaches a conclusion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to play shephard with the motu-key teams discussion and makes sure it reaches a conclusion
<sistpoty> [action] persia to write up the mail to propose accepting volunteers unless there was an objection or it would push the team oversize
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to write up the mail to propose accepting volunteers unless there was an objection or it would push the team oversize
<sistpoty> woohoo!
<sistpoty> so I guess we can move on now?
 * NCommander uses this opporunity to make sure I'm subscribed to ubuntu-motu
<sistpoty> ok, anyone else got a point? if not, I'd like to raise another one, but this time hope it won't be that long
<LaserJock> :-)
<sistpoty> ok, then I just go ahead: ubuntu-universe-sponsors queue has grown again, today it was 118 bugs
<sistpoty> please everybody go sponsoring :)
<sistpoty> anyone got some details from the REVU front?
<sistpoty> or any other tasks we also should be pursuing right now?
<sistpoty> do we have the critical debian bugs script running atm?
<NCommander> I've got one
<sistpoty> NCommander: then go ahead
<NCommander> A reminder about freeze policy; there was an issue with evince breaking freeze and then indirectly breaking xubuntu's livecd build
<sistpoty> NCommander: freeze doesn't apply for universe, or let's rather say most parts of universe
<LaserJock> NCommander: that generally doesn't affect Universe though
<persia> sistpoty: most parts
<NCommander> well, if I just didn't stick my foot in my mouth
 * NCommander runs away
<LaserJock> NCommander: np
<sistpoty> heh
<NCommander> still, its worth a reminder since some core-devs are here
<LaserJock> I could just mention that the Ubuntu QA team is off to a pretty good start
<sistpoty> NCommander: /me hides *g*
<persia> NCommander: The upload didn't break the build: something else did a couple days previously (and silently).  The upload that broke it was outside the freeze period.
<geser> sistpoty: NCommander doesn't get far with a broken car :)
<LaserJock> and hopefully some of that work will definately be helping MOTU
<sistpoty> heh
 * NCommander drops his broken car on geser 
<NCommander> don't get me started on my broken car
<NCommander> or else you'll be victim to drive by insults
<LaserJock> DktrKranz has been working on a transition tracker
<sistpoty> LaserJock: does qa also take over running e.g. the rcbugs script (or later running archive rebuilds/piuparts test), or can you talk about plans?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: cool
<LaserJock> well, not sure about "take over"
<LaserJock> but we're working on trying to get more unified/helpful scripts
<LaserJock> wgrant has been awesome enough to put some of his ubuntuwire code in our bzr
<LaserJock> we're collecting good QA code
<LaserJock> and people ;-)
<LaserJock> so one thing would be to give the rcbugs data a bit of a face lift
<sistpoty> ah, and I can see right now, that rcbugs is working atm :)
<LaserJock> and promote it more
<LaserJock> also some work on rcbugs <-> LP interaction may be in the works
<NCommander> LaserJock, I've done some work in getting data out of LP, I'd be glad to share what I learned
<sistpoty> that's great new altogether :)
 * NCommander actually has a second bit of news
<sistpoty> then shoot ahead, NCommander
<NCommander> REVU is currently in the process of having updates written, and pending the will of the revu-hackers, hopefully hit trunk somewhat soon. There is a blueprint against REVU (revu2) which lists purposed features.
<NCommander> Currently on the list is single signon with LP (already coded), PPA import, apt-get'ble source archives, and perpahs as far as a buildd network
<NCommander> If you have a feature suggestion, nows the time :-)
<sistpoty> oh, just to confirm, I haven't seen so many updates to revu for quite a while that NCommander did this week... and I still hope that RainCT will review and merge them all *g*
<NCommander> sistpoty, he deferred that to you and siretart
 * RainCT hides :P
<sistpoty> hrmpf... I haven't read revu code since ages *g*
<LaserJock> well, perhaps I'm getting into deep water again
<RainCT> sistpoty: but you still know it better than me ;)
<LaserJock> but could the whole thing be a frontend to PPA?
<NCommander> If anyone here feels like skinning things, please address the "REVU is ugly as hell" bug that I filed ;-)
<sistpoty> RainCT: that's a rumor
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jul 14:00 UTC:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council
<LaserJock> seems like disk space is often an issue, and iff you want apt-get'ble source archives, and a buildd network ...
<NCommander> LaserJock, we looked at it, but Soyuz doesn't give the necessary control, so rolling our own infrastructure is easier
<LaserJock> what kind of control do you need?
<NCommander> Well, apt-get source archives are easily
<LaserJock> bandwidth and disk space isn't
<NCommander> Its just generating valid source packages with a version number that isn't going to break things to high heaven
<NCommander> Maybe its time we get a REVU mirror :-)
<sistpoty> LaserJock, NCommander: actually disk space is an issue (bandwith not too much)... as we've got only 72Gb raid (and half of it is used atm by current data)
<NCommander> sistpoty, ouch
<sistpoty> NCommander: well, these are old scsi disks for sun, which aren't needed anywhere else in the university, so we could grab them *g*
<NCommander> sistpoty, probably time to find mirrors, or run a Donate-Hardware drive
<LaserJock> why do we need any more checks than what Soyuz does?
<LaserJock> if it's good enough for a PPA shouldn't it be good enough for REVU?
<NCommander> LaserJock, hence the PPA importer, however, PPAs don't build on all architectures, and they have other limitations w.r.t to superseeding and versioning
 * RainCT agrees with LaserJock as in that we shouldn't need buildds for revu
 * NCommander has heard arguements for and against
<persia> What was the argument for?
 * persia has never heard a good one
<LaserJock> persia: for PPAs or for having REVU do it all?
<sistpoty> well, if s.o. volunteers to write the code and maybe even has some server to run such a buildd on, I'd be the least to object *g*
<NCommander> sistpoty, once we have an apt-get source repo going, getting buildds going is pretty trival
<persia> LaserJock: For autobuilding REVU submissions.
<NCommander> sistpoty, care to merge the openid code ;-)
<RainCT> NCommander: btw, how far did you get with the e-mail verification?
<LaserJock> persia: #1 for me is  because it tells you whether it even builds
<sistpoty> persia: to run lintian on the .debs and to check if it builds in the first place?
<NCommander> RainCT, you need to login with the username and password, and I folded lostpw.py into merge_accounts.py
<RainCT> NCommander: and for people who don't have an old account or who get a new e-mail address?
<NCommander> RainCT, not yet, but until we actually DO something with email addresses, I don't really see it as a priority
<persia> Well, the submitter should have done both those things.  I'd rather discover the problem and instruct the submitter on best practices before upload than have an automated build that might build the expectation that an uploader shouldn't check locally.
<sistpoty> erm... maybe we should continue the discussion about revu-development in #ubuntuwire?
<persia> Heh.
<sistpoty> (we're still in a motu-meeting, mind you *g*)
<NCommander> (having the ability to have comments go to personal emails will go in later)
<persia> Maybe just announce the next meeting time and end the meeting?
<NCommander> woo, I completely derailed #u-meeting!
<sistpoty> persia: that's what I wanted to propose right now... ;)
<sistpoty> so when's the next meeting?
<NCommander> anyone want to change their vote on making me shepard?
<sistpoty> two weeks from now, +8 hours, right?
<sistpoty> NCommander: no, that was already agreed on :O
<sistpoty> :P even
<NCommander> lol
<persia> sistpoty: -16 hours I thought.
<sistpoty> persia: heh, thinking in modulo 24 that should be the same? (but not thinking in calendar days of course *g*)
<persia> sistpoty: Precisely :)
 * persia fears a strict 334 hour rule would end up stomping other meetings after only a few months
<sistpoty> so it would be Friday the 8th, 4utc, correct?
<persia> I think so.
<persia> s/334/344/
<sistpoty> [ACTION] next motu meeting at Friday, 8th, 4 UTC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  next motu meeting at Friday, 8th, 4 UTC
<sistpoty> any last words from anyone?
<LaserJock> no, please no!
 * persia is glad to see more non-MOTU taking actions in the MOTU meeting again
<NCommander> I'd like to close this meeting by beginnign with the opening sections of War and Peace
<persia> (well, some actions)
<sistpoty> NCommander: you're out :P
<NCommander> persia, do I really count? I just don't know the meeting of "Shut up and watch" :-P
<norsetto> I guess that was meaning
<persia> NCommander: Yep.  For the past 3-4 months, we've not had so much non-MOTU contribution.  I think it's important to remember we are part of a larger development community.
<sistpoty> ok, I propose to close the meeting, and since we haven't had a vote yet so far, vote with +1 to close the meeting *g*
<sistpoty> [vote] close the meeting?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  close the meeting?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sistpoty> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sistpoty. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<RainCT> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from RainCT. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<norsetto> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from norsetto. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<NCommander> +1 sistpoty
<MootBot> +1 received from NCommander. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<NCommander> woo
<sistpoty> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<sistpoty> with a result of 5 in favor: meeting adjourned :)
<sistpoty> thanks for coming, and thanks for the patience :)
 * persia considers always volunteering to chair when sistpoty is around to avoid the obligatory close-the-meeting-vote
 * NCommander falls over
<sistpoty> [endmeeting]
<sistpoty> stopmeeting
<sistpoty> persia: heh
<persia> #endmeeting
<NCommander> </meeting>
<RainCT> killall meeting
<sistpoty> damn, we're doomed! *g*
<NCommander> telint 0
<sistpoty> #endmeeting
<persia> No, really, Mootbot wants the # from sistpoty
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:48.
<NCommander> BTW, if you want to try something fun
<NCommander> try: /join 0
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-26
<nellery> @schedule Vancouver
<ubottu> nellery: Schedule for America/Vancouver: 28 Jul 07:00:  Maintainer scripts | 31 Jul 07:00: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 06:00: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 11:00: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 15:00: Community Council
<NCommander> wow, MS joining Apache foundation and releasing LGPL patches ...
 * NCommander thinks its a cold day in hell
 * Nafallo thinks it's the wrong channel :-)
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> I am
<compengi> hello
<compengi> how could i know if ubuntu-lb is an official loco team?
<jpds> compengi: #ubuntu-locoteams
<compengi> thanks
<bryce> slangasek, liw, doko, sorry was on vacation last week so wasn't present for the meeting
<slangasek> bryce: right, so I heard from Keith - I guess maybe I should've checked the vacation calendar :)
<bryce> slangasek: no prob, I didn't send a notice to warthogs (no clue if such notices are encouraged or forbidden there anymore).  If someone doesn't do a summary of last week's meeting I'll try to remember to do it with this week's
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-21
<kcleung> Is the REVU meeting on now?
<lool> Meeting?
 * ogra twiddles thumbs
<GrueMaster> if you insist.
<paulliu> hi
<bjf> hi
<davidm> hi
 * ogra tries to not burn his fingers on the hot kbd ... laptop still building mono
<lool> plars, dyfet: ping
<dyfet> here
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:03. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090721
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090721
<lool> [topic] Action Items from July 14th, 2009
 * plars is here
<lool> I'll skip over #
<lool> NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<lool> for now as NCommander isn't around
<lool> GrueMaster: GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]
<GrueMaster> co
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items from July 14th, 2009
<lool> [action] (2nd co) NCommander to investigate  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (2nd co) NCommander to investigate  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<lool> [action] (2nd co) GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (2nd co) GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<lool> [topic] changing the form of the meeting: everybody would update its spec's status in the whiteboard and we'd review a page summarizing status
<MootBot> New Topic:  changing the form of the meeting: everybody would update its spec's status in the whiteboard and we'd review a page summarizing status
<lool> I'm voluntarily skipping over Specification Review as it is impacted by this proposal  :)
<lool> So I've sent this proposal to the mailing list
<plars> yep
<lool> The idea is basically for everybody to edit the whiteboard of their specs to reflect status
 * ogra gave comments via IRC, sorry for not putting them in mail yet
<lool> Just like for Work items, we'd have a one line summary or couple of lines summary of status
<lool> This would allow generation of an overview page which we would all review during the meeting and then we'd have an open floor for questions
<lool> The goal is to have always available information (not buried in a meeting log) and to skip over the long blueprint pingpong
<ogra> ++
<lool> Opinions?  Comments?  Reactions?  :)
<plars> lool: I didn't see ogra's comments, have there been any objections to this idea raised by him, or anyone else?
<lool> ogra: ^
<ogra> i didnt really understand the purpose when we started discussing it
<ogra> the more i thought bout it the more i liked it
<lool> Cool
<davidm> I like the idea, personally
<lool> plars: I'm not 100% sure but I think it's the only critic I received
<ogra> my initial proposal was to have at least per person status reports only on the items that block you thought
<lool> Which was IIRC "it sounds like additional work and I don't see the point"
<ogra> but i think these are not needed
<ogra> s/thought/though/
<plars> right, it's basically just a one line update on a wiki page, similar to what you'd be doing on irc if we still did it in-meeting right?
<ogra> lool's proposal as it stands is fine
<lool> So if there are no objections, I propose we add a "Status:" entry to whiteboards; I'll send a mail about that
<ogra> though it requires that we actually prapare a bit more
<plars> I like it
<ogra> *pre
<lool> [action] lool to send email about Status: in whiteboards
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to send email about Status: in whiteboards
<lool> [action] lool to implement script to dump blueprints' statuses
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to implement script to dump blueprints' statuses
<lool> As a related topic
<davidm> plars, it an entry on the blueprint whiteboard not a wiki page
<lool> [topic] adding work items to all specs which we work on
<MootBot> New Topic:  adding work items to all specs which we work on
<davidm> plars, from that a wiki status page can be generated
<plars> davidm: I see now, from lool's later comments :)
<ogra> lool, shouldnt that be an action instead of topic ? :)
<lool> plars: Right, sorry, I went a bit fast; it's like Work items: on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain
<lool> So on this new topic, I'd like to ask everyone to please update or add Work items: to their specs
<lool> Currently the burndown chart isn't terribly useful because it only works with a subset of the specs/work items which we really want to track
<lool> These are the errors I currently get from the cron http://paste.ubuntu.com/223547/
<lool> Some specs should be clarified and are not really ours (e.g. hw-emablement or mid-karmic-use-mer) in which case I'll drop them from the list
<ogra> mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui has workitems
 * ogra sonders what he did wrong
<lool> So you have an empty line
<ogra> ah, right
<ogra> fix your script :P
<lool> The format should be "Work items:" and then one work item per line directly afterwards
<lool> ogra: No, it could be anything after the Work items
<lool> Also format of work items should be "Froble with foobar: TODO" or DONE or DEFERRED
<lool> fixed for this spec
<GrueMaster> lool:  For future reference it would be nice to have a document specifying the format you would like to have, instead of coming back and saying we need to fix the specs after we have already written them.
<plars> lool: perhaps, if your email about stus updates could include the format for the rest of it as well, that would be helpful
<plars> s/stus/status
<lool> GrueMaster: that's fair
<lool> GrueMaster: Would you mind picking this up?
<lool> plars: it will; thanks for the suggestion
<GrueMaster> No, because I don't know the exact format that your script is looking for.
<lool> It's pitti's script actually
<lool> The format is the one I documented above
<plars> is that script available in bzr somewhere?
<paulliu> lool: OK. I'll document it.
<lool> it's available publicly
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: http://piware.de/bzr/bin/workitems.py
<lool> the chart generator albeit unrelated is at lp:~rick-rickspencer3/+junk/py-burndown-chart
<lool> The script is called like:
<lool> 03 3 * * * bzr update -q $HOME/bin; $HOME/bin/workitems.py -d data/desktop-workitems.db -r karmic -p 'desktop-karmic-' -m 'https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic?action=raw'; $HOME/bin/workitems.py -d data/desktop-workitems.db --csv --to 2009-10-01 | python ubuntu/py-burndown-chart/burndown.py --output=www/www/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png -s 300 --height=450 --title='Desktop Team Karmic Burndown' -
<lool> BTW this is the current burndown chart URL http://piware.de/tmp/mobileteam-burndown-karmic.png
<lool> This is hosted on pitti's server for now due to lack of deps on people.ubuntu.com or people.canonical.com
<lool> Any question?
<lool> Ok moving to Specification Review
<lool> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<lool> So hopefully our last pingpong week
<lool> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<lool> ogra: Mind updating us on your specs?
<lool> paulliu, plars: I'll give an update on my specs next and then it will be your turn
<ogra> subarches in debian cd ... i started fiddling with the renaming on the weekend ...
<ogra> but am not done yet, the buildd issues are way to pressing to do any spec work this week until we have sorted that
<ogra> so my full focus is on that
<ogra> (mesa building atm here in chroot)
<lool> No update on freescale-desktopm easy-rb-mgmt offline-installer-gui and general-resolution-touchscreens?
<ogra> i fiddled with a qemu static build that if it enters karmic will speed up rootstock massively
<ogra> (this is for offlibe installer gui)
<ogra> touchscreens are still not started
<ogra> freescale desktop is waiting for HW which i'm supposed to recive soon
<lool> ogra: How's A3 looking WRT freescale/mx51?
<ogra> (and indeed for the renaming changes in cdimage/debian-cd)
<ogra> well
<ogra> given that compiz FTBFS thanks to the 40 KDE packages being stuck on the buildd i'D say very bad
<ogra> beyond not having mesa
<lool> It's uninstallable?
<ogra> how would it be installable without kernel ?
<lool> I'm speaking of compiz and mesa
<ogra> well, the wrong version will be installed
<ogra> livefs'es build, images build
<lool> That's better than nothing
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily-live/20090721/ looks good so far but isnt of much use
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily-live/20090721/ looks good so far but isnt of much use
<lool> ogra: Is it reasonnable to target these two specs for a4?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> looks like we will have a working kernel by A4
<lool> done
<ogra> the changes for imx51 arent hard, uboot scripts will be a bit
<ogra> but easier if i have HW
<ogra> done
<lool> On my own specs, I didn't do any progress on the cloud stuff which I considered lower priority; I want to get something decent started before our sprint
<lool> Concerning the toolchain bits, it's stuck on hardware for buildds as qemu isn't a serious option anymore, sadly
<lool> As soon as v7 buildds are deployed we can bump the toolchain reqs and move on
<ogra> qemu-system-arm is way to slow
<lool> paulliu: Could you update us on your specs' status?
<lool> GrueMaster: You're next after plars
<ogra> (which is why i went down the -static/binfmt road as well with rootstock)
<paulliu> Yes. I've request to enable compatible mode in connman packaging.
<paulliu> So the rest is to add it into our seed and start debugging.
<paulliu> For app-resolutions sorry I still don't have time to look on that.
<lool> paulliu: Could you add work items to your specs?
<paulliu> lool: yes.
<lool> paulliu: What do you think are reasonnable delivery milestones for each spec?
<paulliu> lool: before karmic?
<paulliu> lool: What do you mean milestones?
<lool> paulliu: alpha 4, 5, 6, beta, rc etc.
<lool> (I just changed the implementation of mobile-unr-karmic-connman to "Started" since you mentionned work on it)
<paulliu> For connman alpha 5 is good.
<lool> paulliu: I think connman should land before FF
<lool> Ok, let's go for A5
<paulliu> lool: yes, the early the better.
<lool> Agreed
<paulliu> lool: And app-resolution for beta.
<lool> Ok
<lool> Specs updated with milestones
<lool> paulliu: Anything you're blocked on?  Need help with?
<paulliu> lool: it's ok. I'll push the maintainer and/or the upstream.
<lool> paulliu: Thanks
<lool> plars: How are specs going for you?
<plars> mobile-qa-karmic-arm and mobile-qa-karmic-unr now have testplans linked on testcases.qa.ubuntu.com
<plars> have good progress writing checkbox testcases
 * StevenK appears, having lost track of time :-(
<lool> Hi StevenK we're reviewing specs status ATM; could you prepare a couple of lines of summary on the ones you're assigned to?  thanks
<plars> some manual (guided) and some automated
<plars> will be syncing up with cgregan and other soon on testcases to see what can be leveraged for each others' benefits
<plars>  mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting  is unblocked now, kinda
<StevenK> The only left is -wubi, which requires me to have more time
<lool> plars: Should some implementation statuses say "Good progress"?  Do you have an ETA for delivery of these specs?
<lool> StevenK: After GrueMaster if you don't mind
<StevenK> Tell me when
 * ogra hands StevenK a bag with some minutes in it :)
<ogra> there, time :)
<plars> UNR one is coming along more quickly than arm one, I'd like to have them with something available for use by alpha4, though I fully expect the set of tests to continue to grow after that
<plars> on the compliance autotesting one
<plars> that's the one for application screensize/resolution testsuite
<plars> The bug affecting LDTP that was blocking me on that is not fixed yet, but I've narrowed it down to the changeset
<lool> plars: Ok changed it to good progress and targeted to A5, there's no rush to have it in A4, if we do that's nice
<plars> ok
<plars> this one is lower priority than the other two though
<plars> but the testing benefits the UNR testing overall
<plars> so it's really nice to have
<lool> plars: Do you think beta is a good target for the testcases specs?
<plars> yes, hopefully... I'll have *something* at beta, but I may not have coverage for all apps by that time
<lool> ok updated
<plars> thanks
<lool> GrueMaster: Hola
<lool> GrueMaster: I updated mobile-karmic-lsb-compliance-testing slightly last week; any issue wit hit?
<lool> *it
<GrueMaster> morning.  I have updated the mobile-karmic-lsb-compliance-testing even more since then.  I have added a new work item to move the lsb test results to wiki.ubuntu.com
<lool> GrueMaster: I just merged the two Work items: sections into one
<GrueMaster> I will also be testing alpha3 this week as soon as they hit iso.qa
<lool> GrueMaster: Given the nature of it, I'm targetting it for final since you'll effectively deliver the final work items after final
<GrueMaster> No, I am targeting moving the test results for this week.
<lool> GrueMaster: Anything else you'd like to raise on the topic of specs?
<lool> GrueMaster: I mean I targetted the *spec* for delivery with final
<GrueMaster> Ok,
<lool> Since one work item is to test final
<lool> GrueMaster: Ok thanks
<lool> StevenK: Now would be a good time to update us on your specs  :)
<lool> dyfet__: You're next
<ogra> he's growing underscores since he joined ...
<GrueMaster> on the mobile-unr-karmic-applications, davidm and I had decided to abandon it due to lack of communication from the other players.  Since then, I have seen an update on the blueprint (still no email) from Pete asking why.
<dyfet__> assuming i survive connectivity issues...
<StevenK> Right, -wubi requires more time, which I'll be doing next week
<lool> GrueMaster: Actually repete offered clarifications on this spec; I'm happy to participate in a phone call to help rescue the UNR apps spec
<StevenK> -translations requiring reviewing and also more time
<StevenK> Can anyone see a theme?
<lool> StevenK: So you're doing translations after all?
<GrueMaster> Pete has also updated the spec wiki to include a new list of applications, which I have been reviewing since last week.
<StevenK> lool: I did the first step, by moving them to main.
<GrueMaster> ok, guess I'm done.  sigh.
<StevenK> I'll be discussing the next steps with dpm tomorrow.
<lool> StevenK: Is there a spec about UNR updates for karmic?
<StevenK> If you have a phone call about UNR apps, please invite me.
<StevenK> lool: UNR updates? Why?
<lool> GrueMaster: Sorry, I thought you were done two minutes ago
<GrueMaster> I can't type as fast as some of you guys.  Especially without coffee.
<lool> StevenK: Because we'll get some UNR drops to push to karmic
<StevenK> lool: And? They get uploaded as normal, they don't require that much paperwork
<lool> StevenK: Ok; so there are no plans to track karmic's UNR as a spec; I would have found such a spec a better place to document the MIR work for UNR for instance
<lool> I don't mind if you think it can simply happen immediately
<StevenK> Er, it didn't ... ?
<StevenK> I'm confused
<lool> StevenK: I'm not tracking UNR plans for karmic closely; I can't comment on the scale of the task
<ogra> btw, wasnt there some discussion about the name ?
<ogra> does it stay ?
<lool> That's not our call
<ogra> (just a question out of interest)
<lool> StevenK: Anything else you'd like to discuss with your specs?
<StevenK> I can't think of any, I'm not really trying to drive -translations, just prod it to get started.
<lool> StevenK: Could you please update status of poulsbo-packaging and mobile-hildon-input-methods to reflect their current status?  (Implemented/deferred/obsolete etc.)
<StevenK> And having UNR in main was a goal of mine, irrspectively of specs
<lool> (These are not targeted at karmic, but would be nice to get them cleared of your list)
<StevenK> And translations, etc, etc, handwave
<lool> StevenK: That's alright
<lool> StevenK: What's the expected delivery milestone for mobile-unr-karmic-wubi?
<StevenK> lool: It was supposed to be alpha 3, but I suck
<StevenK> Now alpha 4
 * ogra doesnt ask for armel support this week :)
<lool> I made it Alpha 4 thanks
<lool> GrueMaster: Getting back to you, since I skipped too fast to StevenK
<lool> GrueMaster: Anything else you'd like to discuss WRT specs?
<GrueMaster> What more can I add?  I only have the two, and one has been silently killed off.
<lool> GrueMaster: I'm available if you'd like help clarifying/resucing the UNR apps/seed spec with repete
<lool> I think it's unfair to call it silently killed off
<GrueMaster> I really don't even know what I am supposed to do with that spec.  I only offered to help stevenk with the writeup after UDS.  I'm not sure what direction it is supposed to go in.
<lool> I think it was trying to cover too many things at once and was a bit of an undocumented/unclear list of changes as a result
<GrueMaster> It was silently killed off because no one was responding to my email inquiries.
<lool> If you or StevenK have some genuine interest in getting some of this stuff in karmic, let us work with repete to clarify it
<lool> I think we could have an efficient phone meeting to kick it off again
<lool> GrueMaster: Ok; let's chat about this off meeting if you don't mind
<lool> dyfet: How are you doing with specs?
<plars> we are almost out of time
<dyfet> well...with the lxde spec, we had community elections for packages to have in the lubuntu seed...
<lool> dyfet: So you have a clear plan?
<dyfet> yes
<lool> dyfet: What the expected delivery milestone?
<lool> dyfet: alpha 6?
<lool> It's the latest we can add flavours IMO
<dyfet> well, it was a low priority spec, but we could target before a6 :)
<lool> Ok I made it alpha 5
<ogra> lool, it wont be a flavout
<lool> but please add work items to the spec
<ogra> *r
<ogra> only a seed and metapackage
<lool> Ok
<lool> dyfet: anything else?
<dyfet> yes, I kept your notes from earlier on work item comments :)
<dyfet> not related to specs...waiting for hw today though
<lool> Ok done with specs then
<lool> [topic] ihgh prio bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  ihgh prio bugs
<StevenK> Depends if you want things like CD builds
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<lool> StevenK: That one would be for you
<StevenK> And before FF is MUCH better
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<lool> StevenK: Can you push the new webfav soon?
 * StevenK waves his arms furiously
<lool> We're running out of time; if people have other commitments they are welcome to go attend; I think we will be done in 5 to 10 mns
<StevenK> I only have so much time :-(
<StevenK> lool: I'm trying
<lool> StevenK: I don't need it next week, but ff3.5 is a karmic goal
<lool> bfiller said it was a one line change though  :)
<StevenK> lool: I'm well aware, but there are other things wrong with webfav, which need addressing
<lool> StevenK: Ok; I'm noting that you don't have much time but will look into it in a near guture
<lool> *future
<lool> StevenK: ack
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<lool> dyfet: What about banshee?  This bug has been open in a long while
<lool> dyfet: It would be nice to get some debug action  :)
<dyfet> I know...I had not been able to get banshee to run far enough to hit that failure on arm
<ogra> what HW do you have atm ?
<lool> I just assigned myself to the ffmpeg ARM opts bugs 383240
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383240 in ffmpeg "Integrate and enable ARMv5TE/v6/VFP and NEON optimisations from ffmpeg trunk for armel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383240
<dyfet> well, there is the b1....and the marvell board I cannot run X on and that has an ancient kernel...
<ogra> ffmpeg looks like it will only work if we compile with --cpu=armv7-a
<lool> dyfet: What's wrong with the B1?
<dyfet> when I try it on the b1, I get a failure in dbus init in banshee long before it gets to anything else...
<ogra> you try to run it remotely ?
<ogra> that wont work
<ogra> banshee checks for a local session dbus
<lool> ogra: Could you help dyfet get moving on this bug?
<ogra> yes
<lool> dyfet: Please bring up such issues before we discover them in the meeting; you could document them in the bug or raise them to us on IRC any time  :)
<dyfet> I think it is something simple...and I was expecting to get new hw today also
<lool> Ok; moving to low prio bugs
<lool> There are way too many bugs to review
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: Could you guys help us deal with the now larger lists of bugs?
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile
 * ogra notices thats a reoccuring sentence lool emits every release cycle
<lool> I wish these be triaged into armel / UNR / other bugs
<plars> lool: I plan to spend some omre time triaging today
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unr
<lool> and
<plars> lool: I could use some help on it
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-armel
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-armel
<lool> GrueMaster: Could you help plars triaging these?
<GrueMaster> Looking now.
<lool> GrueMaster: As well as New bugs against UNR packages
<ogra> lool, hmm, your list has fix released bugs in it
<plars> it's not hard, just can be tedious... but the main thing at the moment is to get bugs figured out whether they are specific to ARM/UNR or not, and if so, subscribe them to the appropriate team... if not, remove the tag
<GrueMaster> How do you want me to go about armel bugs without a working image?
<ogra> bug 390591 is surely not affecting karmic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 390591 in mono "mono segfaults on ARM" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390591
<plars> GrueMaster: you don't need a working image for the most part on this, and UNR is the one that needs the most attention
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: What I'd love for the other lists would be bugs without any Undecided/Unknown prio and in state Confirmed or Triaged
<plars> general triaging would be useful too of course, but getting the bugs identified correctly is a big part of that
<lool> ogra: it's targetted at jaunty, which we still support
<ogra> right
<lool> Ok; we had a long meeting already
<ogra> i thought NCommander wanted to make a backport request
<plars> GrueMaster: I'll get with you about it later
<GrueMaster> Bug #345126 has been release-noted
<lool> I think a week wont be enough to triage all these but we should revisit next week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345126 in ubuntu-release-notes "Installer on UNR image creates too small swap partition" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345126
<lool> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<lool> This is a chance to discuss any other important business?
<ogra> none, close ....
<lool> Crap there was something I wanted to mention but I forgot about
<lool> Lucky you
<lool> Ok thanks a lot folks
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:11.
<ogra> heh
<kirkland> o/
<ttx> o/
<sommer> yo
 * mathiaz waves
<mathiaz> let's get the Ubuntu Server team meeting started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> thanks ttx for running the meeting last week
<mathiaz> ttx: and publishing the minutes
 * stgraber waves
<ttx> you're welcome.
<mathiaz> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090714
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> SRU tracking on server-related packages.
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU tracking on server-related packages.
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU tracking on server-related packages.
<mathiaz> ttx: what's you proposal on this subject?
<ttx> We need to better track Server-related SRU candidates. Basically monitor the development release updates for changes that could make sense in previous releases
<ttx> to define where we want to use our resources to push them to completion.
<ttx> So someone could monitor the list, look up the changes and list relevant ones on a wikipage. They would get discussed at the team meeting
<Omahn> I would be willing to help in that effort.
<ttx> once approved, we would assign them to the ubuntu-server team and make sure they pass the process.
<mathiaz> ttx: in my experience SRU candidates are mainly coming from bugs
<Omahn> I currently look through the SRU list for updates relevant to servers, mainly for LTS releases though as we mainly use LTS builds.
<ttx> mathiaz: yes.
<mathiaz> ttx: I'm not sure that monitoring karmic-changes would help
<mathiaz> ttx: the problem we're trying to solve is to get more SRU completed or to identify more candidates for SRU?
<ttx> mathiaz: I would say, to make sure we SRU all relevant bugs
<ttx> and give a forum where their appropriateness would get discussed
<mathiaz> ttx: right - so I'd rather focus on the ubuntu-server-bugs mailing list then
<ttx> but you're right that -changes monitoring is not enough.
<mathiaz> ttx: it seems that karmic-changes is to noisy
 * kirkland cheers ttx on
<ttx> We need to catch all FixReleased.
<mathiaz> ttx: agreed - for a specific list of packages (relevant to the server team)
<Omahn> Does a list of packages relevant to the server team exist?
<Omahn> (Or is it just common sense?)
<mathiaz> Omahn: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+packagebugs
<mathiaz> sbeattie: how do yo track relevant SRU bugs?
<mathiaz> sbeattie: is there a process in the bug team to track which bugs are currently under an SRU process?
<ttx> That doesn't mean we'll do a lot more SRUs, just give some confidence that we are not missing anything important.
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - so there is already a list of bugs that are targeted for SRU
<mathiaz> ttx: what's we're trying to achieve here is to get more relevant bugs on that list?
<ttx> mathiaz: you mean the bugs nominated for a release ?
<mathiaz> ttx: yes
<mathiaz> ttx: if someone thinks a bug should be fixed in a stable release, one of the first step is to nominate that bug for the target release
<ttx> Basically I want to find a way to have a team discussion on what nominated bugs should be approved.
<ttx> and assign the key ones to the team rather than expect that the original poster has the nerves to push them to completion.
<mathiaz> ttx: ok
<mathiaz> ttx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/
<mathiaz> ttx: this is the list of bugs related to hardy
<ttx> unfortunately the current nomination acceptation process is a one-man decision right now
<mathiaz> ttx: and you can search for all bugs to which the ubuntu-server is a subscriber
<mathiaz> ttx: http://tinyurl.com/nmxppq
<ttx> mathiaz: can you see those where hardy has been nominated but not accepted ?
<mathiaz> ttx: ^^ this is the list of bugs *accepted* for hardy to which the ubuntu-server team is subsribec
<mathiaz> ttx: good question - sbeattie or slangasek would know the answer about it
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - there is a review nominations link in the page above
<mathiaz> ttx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations
<ttx> mathiaz: so we could use the nomination process to track them.
<mathiaz> ttx: http://tinyurl.com/lm7ogv
<mathiaz> ttx: and ^^ this is the url relevant to the ubuntu-server tema
<ttx> mathiaz: /someone/ would track bugs and make sure nominations are filed were relevant
<ttx> and we would review the nominations in the team meeting
<ttx> then potentially assign the key ones to the team
<mathiaz> ttx: right. The process may be semi-automated by processing the ubuntu-server-bugs mailing list archive
<mathiaz> ttx: and present a list of bugs marked 'Fix released' on a period of time
<mathiaz> bdmurray: do you have a script that does this^?
<ttx> The missing part today is someone making sure everything relevant is nominated.
<mathiaz> ttx: agreed.
<mathiaz> ttx: so what we could do is to have a weekly review in this meeting about the bugs that have been fixed released in the last week
<mathiaz> ttx: and make sure the relevant ones are nominated, approved, assigned, etc...
<ttx> mathiaz: I fear that might take too long ?
<ttx> mathiaz: what if someone volunteered to track FixReleased and turn them all to nominations where appropriate ?
<zul_> why not have like a weekly posting to the ubuntu server mailing list like the kernel-team
<ttx> then we could review only those that make sense to be SRUed
<mathiaz> ttx: then the burden to accept the nominations would fall on the ubuntu-sru team
<mathiaz> ttx: how about trying to setup the list and review it in the next meeting
<ttx> mathiaz: you mean only ubuntu-sru should accept a nomination ? I think most devs can.
<mathiaz> ttx: and put a maxmimum time we spend on it (say 10 mn)
<ttx> ubuntu-sru accept the SRU more tan the nomination
<mathiaz> ttx: that way we get the ball rolling and see if we need to make some adjustement in the process
<ttx> mathiaz: worksforme
<mathiaz> ttx: right - -devs can accept nominations
<mathiaz> ttx: IIUC we're trying to come up with a way to make sure that *all* relevant bugs end up in the nomination process
<ttx> yes. a bug might be valid but not make a good SRU. That's the -sru teams decisions.
<ttx> accepting nominations is more ack-ing that the issue applies to a given release.
<mathiaz> ttx: and the proposal is to get a list if fixed bugs in the last week, review it in the server meeting and nominated relevant ones
<ttx> I would even nominate/accept them.
<kirkland> ttx: mathiaz: can we experiment on libvirt and kvm?  both of these are in jaunty-proposed at the moment
<kirkland> I mean, experiment on the publicity, call-for-testing
<mathiaz> kirkland: ah right. I'm not sure how that is relevant to the discussion here.
<mathiaz> kirkland: testing comes after the SRU has been proccessed
<mathiaz> kirkland: ie one of the very last stage of the SRU process.
<kirkland> <mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU tracking on server-related packages.
<mathiaz> kirkland: we're focusing here on the very first step of the process
<kirkland> okay
<kirkland> i think the last step is important too :-)   testing in -proposed, which I suspect very little happens
<mathiaz> kirkland: how to make sure relevant bugs don't fall off the ubuntu-server radar.
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes - definetly
<mathiaz> kirkland: this is probably the subject of another topic
<ttx> well, we should also weekkly-review the status of the ones we committed to do.
<mathiaz> let's break things down in manageable chunks
<mathiaz> ttx: right - so let's move on
<ttx> but I agree that's another part of the SRU puzzle.
<mathiaz> I think we have a plan
<mathiaz> I'll talk to bdmurray to see if/how we can get a list of fixed bugs
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to come up with a  way to generate a list of fixed bugs in the last week for packages relevant to the server team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to come up with a  way to generate a list of fixed bugs in the last week for packages relevant to the server team
<mathiaz> anything else on this particular topic?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> anything else regarding last week minutes/meeting?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Preparing a 2009 edition of the Server Survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Preparing a 2009 edition of the Server Survey
<mathiaz> nijaba: ^^?
<nijaba> yes, it has been a year since we launched our first survey
<nijaba> or it will be in sept
<nijaba> so it is time to start updating our question set for this coming sept
<nijaba> anyone interested in helping could have a look at the wiki
<nijaba> and file bugs against the project with suggestions?
<mathiaz> nijaba: which wiki page?
<nijaba> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Survey
<mathiaz> nijaba: so v1.0.4 was used as the final set of questions for the last survey?
<nijaba> also, the limesurvey package needs to be updated.  if anyone feels up to it...
<nijaba> mathiaz: yep
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - seems like everything is there to get the survey updated.
<mathiaz> nijaba: any changes needed to the policy?
<nijaba> mathiaz: not that I know of
<mathiaz> nijaba: great.
<nijaba> mathiaz: but it could use a review if anyone feels up to it
<mathiaz> nijaba: any changes to the Launch plan?
<mathiaz> nijaba: or is this something to be discussed later?
<mathiaz> nijaba: also - what is the timeframe for the launch?
<nijaba> mathiaz: good question.  It can be discussed later, but from the last survey, 50% of the respondent came from the banner on ubuntu.com
<nijaba> mathiaz: end of sept is my target
<mathiaz> nijaba: did you get in touch with the ubuntu-news/marketing team?
<nijaba> mathiaz: not yet
<mathiaz> ok - any specific action item to record on this topic?
<nijaba> mathiaz: just the call for review...
<mathiaz> nijaba: writing a blog post?
<nijaba> mathiaz: good idea...  i will
<mathiaz> nijaba: great.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to write a blog post asking for review of the ubuntu-server survey questions.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to write a blog post asking for review of the ubuntu-server survey questions.
<mathiaz> anything else on this topic?
<nijaba> not from me
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Roadmap refresh
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap refresh
<mathiaz> what have you been up to in the next week for karmic?
<mathiaz> what have you been up to in the *last* week for karmic?
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: ^^?
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, working on ipvsadm (updating it to 1.25) which includes support for ipv6
<RoAkSoAx> though I have some doubts about how to handle the CFLAGS in debian/rules, so if someone is an expert on the subject and has some free time to help me, please let me know :)
<Daviey> nice.
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: have you asked in ubuntu-motu?
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: you may be able to find some help there
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: what else is needed to get packages in shape for karmic?
<RoAkSoAx> then I already have a testing howto for heartbeat-pacemaker to do a call for testing, however I'm waiting to have latest pacemaker which I believe ivoks was working on.
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, I did asked -motu with no luck :)
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: ok - is there a wiki page somewhere to track what needs to be done?
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, in the Ubuntu-HA team no. We don't have a wikipage for that
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: there is a roadmap section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHighAvailabilityTeam
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: could this section be updated with the plan for karmic?
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: just give a list of relevant packages that need to be updated in the archive
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, sure. Will work on it.
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: and a short description of how the cluster stack would look like in karmic
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great thanks.
<RoAkSoAx> will do :)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] RoAkSoAx to update the Roadmap section of the Ubuntu HA team with a short description of how the cluster stack would look like in karmic
<MootBot> ACTION received:  RoAkSoAx to update the Roadmap section of the Ubuntu HA team with a short description of how the cluster stack would look like in karmic
<mathiaz> kirkland: how is powernap going?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i've been working on cloud power management
<kirkland> powernap + powerwake are two opensource pieces of it
<kirkland> going well
<kirkland> uploaded, promoted to main
<kirkland> dan nurmi of eucalyptus has
<kirkland> added hooks into eucalyptus
<kirkland> to use powernap to suspend/hibernate/poweroff cloud nodes when unused
<kirkland> and powerwake to resume them when demand requires
<mathiaz> kirkland: is there anything to be tested?
<kirkland> UEC is now a "breathable" cloud
<kirkland> well, i think powernap is actually generally useful for servers
<kirkland> sort of like a screensaver, but instead of saving your screen, you're saving your powerbill
<mathiaz> kirkland: and the planet
<kirkland> i'm interested in other ideas, use cases, servers where powernap can be used
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, and on a more grand and noble basis, the planet :-)
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm actually using it on my mythfrontend machines
<Daviey> kirkland: Are there any check mechanisms that you would like help with implementing?
<kirkland> mathiaz: suspending those when they're not doing anything
<kirkland> Daviey: heh, actually, there is at least one :-)
<kirkland> Daviey: i have a mechanism that watches for activity on devices (so /dev/tty1 /dev/ptmx and friends)
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - and resuming them as fast as possible when you have an urgent need to watch a movie
<kirkland> Daviey: and one that watches ps/2 keyboards/mice on /proc/interrupts
<Daviey> ^^ Also support USB keyboards?
<kirkland> Daviey: i need a way of watching a usb keyboard/mouse with activity *not* happening on a console
<Daviey> ahh.. too quick :)
<kirkland> Daviey: so, usb keyboard/mouse activity in gnome, for instance
<kirkland> low priority, since the server doesn't include X
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - we're running out of time
<kirkland> but would be nice to have
<kirkland> powernap is python code, btw!
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you have a place to track the list of improvment?
<Daviey> kirkland: grab you later :)
<mathiaz> all right - time to wrap up
<kirkland> mathiaz: launchpad
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
<sommer> +1
<mathiaz> great then. next week, same time, same place.
<mathiaz> and happy alpha3 testing!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
<Daviey> \o/
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
 * apw zones in ...
 * smb arrives on the bong
 * jjohansen waves
 * ogasawara waves
<apw> Roll Call for the kernel team meeting
 * rtg_ is here
 * amitk here
<apw> #startmeeting
<apw> This is the Kernel Weekly Meeting
<apw> Agenda for this weeks meeting:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is apw.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
 * awe waves
<apw> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (amitk) Remove Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling from list
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (amitk) Remove Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling from list
 * cking here
<apw> think that one can be called done
<amitk> done
<apw> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw, ogasawara) Mark Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling as complete
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw, ogasawara) Mark Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling as complete
<ogasawara> done
<apw> wicked thanks
<apw> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (cking) to send email about Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (cking) to send email about Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<cking> done
<apw> nice
<apw> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw) clean up status of Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw) clean up status of Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
<apw> this one is also done
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
 * apw spits feathers at OSD
<apw> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> RC Milestoned bugs - none for Alpha 3 or Alpha 4
<ogasawara> Release Targeted Bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-3
<apw> ogasawara, how we looking for alpha-3, it being to late to spin the kernel anyhow
<ogasawara> apw: looking good, we have no bugs targetted
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
 * manjo waves
<apw> that one need to be on here any more?
<ogasawara> There's ongoing discussion in bug 338772
<ogasawara> Also, access to hwdb data has been restricted to the hwdb-team.  The kernel team has been added as a member of this team.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338772 in checkbox "Data from `lshw` should be submitted to Launchpad" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338772
<ubott2> Launchpad bug 338772 in checkbox "Data from `lshw` should be submitted to Launchpad" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338772
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 338772 in checkbox "Data from `lshw` should be submitted to Launchpad" [High,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338772 in checkbox "Data from `lshw` should be submitted to Launchpad" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338772
<ubott2> Ubuntu bug 338772 in checkbox "Data from `lshw` should be submitted to Launchpad" [High,Confirmed]
<ubott2> Launchpad bug 338772 in checkbox "Data from `lshw` should be submitted to Launchpad" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338772
<ogasawara> whoa
<apw> heh nice
<ogasawara> apw: that's it for now
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
<apw> Commonised a chunk of the remaining options on the ubuntu architectures, this included crypto and filesystem options.  This is essentially complete now the remaining updates if any will come as part of testing.
<apw> i recon this one has gone about as far as it can ... and propose we call it done
 * rtg_ agrees
<amitk> +1
<apw> [ACTION] apw to close kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to close kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
<apw> Things are generally quiet on KMS at the moment.  We are expecting a block of updates for i915 in the next rebase to 2.6.31-rc4 when that is ready.  ATI userspace is likely to be ready for ATI Radeon KMS sometime after alpha-3 releases, and we can switch it on by default.  Testing continues to be pretty encouraging, lots of fixes being pushed up to the kernel by intel as a result of our testing.
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
<rtg_> stalled, too many Karmic issues lately.
<apw> ack
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
<smb> There are only a few items remaining but no progress on those, currently.
<apw> we probabally can review whats left at sprint and call it good then?
<smb> sounds like a plan
<rtg_> and drop those aren't being compiled
<apw> yeah we should do that
<rtg_> s/those/those that/
<apw> [ACTION] smb organise a sprint session on to review our delta
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb organise a sprint session on to review our delta
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
<apw> i assume this is still waiting for resource
<bjf> apw, yes
<apw> ack
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
<apw> and this also waiting for resource
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
 * apw prods manjo
<manjo> nothing to report was working on ARM issues all week
 * ogra hugs manjo 
<apw> ok waiting on resource there too
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
<rtg_> working on rfkill
 * manjo thanks ogra
<apw> we do have a bunch of inversions and the like reported on rfkill
<apw> or devices disabled by default
<rtg_> its kind of non-functional in some cases.
<apw> should we be pointing you at them?
<rtg_> not yet. I need to figure out how its supposed to work.
<apw> heh i think we expected that, its a major rewrite in there for sure
<manjo> so rt2x00 upgrade was turned down...
<rtg_> I'm working with slangasek on acpi-support and wireless-tools
 * awe sends sympathy to rtg
<smb> manjo, well as the big thing, yes
<apw> i assume thats the one in ubuntu/
<manjo> no its in main dirs
<manjo> drivers/.../wireless
<smb> right
<smb> but the big diff included a completelly new (and apparently broken) driver
<apw> something to get discussed on the mailing list perhaps?
<manjo> apw, it was
<apw> so is that something we need to talk about now, or take offline?
<manjo> we can take it off line
<smb> I guess take offline
<rtg_> manjo, IIRC even the maintainer said it wasn't ready.
<manjo> rtg_, correct
<rtg_> seems like tahts the end of the story for now
<manjo> k
<apw> overall then not taking it yet seems appropriate, we await an updated version
<apw> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
 * apw suspects this is pending resource
<amitk> pending
<apw> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> still have the clone regression
<jjohansen> and I know of two other oops, now
<apw> in addition to the ones you fixed already?
<jjohansen> yes
<jjohansen> they are in change_profile, jamie reported it yesterday
<apw> how are they looking, are they things people are likely to hit?
<jjohansen> and one that is showing up in cred
<jjohansen> no
<jjohansen> jamie is working on a profile that uses changeprofile
<apw> i suggest we sync with you before the next upload and decide if you think it is still safe to enable it
<jjohansen> which would be the first time its been used in Ubuntu
<jjohansen> yes
<rtg_> jjohansen, do we have feature parity with Jaunty?
<apw> [ACTION] apw/rtg to synv with Jjohansen before upload on AA enablement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw/rtg to synv with Jjohansen before upload on AA enablement
<jjohansen> rtg_: yes
 * apw cheers
<apw> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<bjf> imx51 is making good progress on all fronts
<amitk> 6.6.31 imx51 kernel now boots and manages to stay alive
<amitk> er 2.6.31
<amitk> big thanks to manjo and dinh @ freescale
<manjo> welcome
<apw> souding good.  so are we expecting patches for karmic shortly?
<amitk> I've integrated all the patches at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=amitk/ubuntu-fsl-2.6.31.git;a=summary in case anybody is interested
<amitk> are we going to have a separate branch for this stuff?
<amitk> I'm cleaning up the commit messages for uniformity and then I'll send a pull request shortly
<rtg_> amitk, thats my understanding (for now)
<bjf> I think it should go on an "arm" topic branch in the Karmic tree
<apw> sounds good, we can get the same machinery smb used on jaunty and use that
<amitk> it should be on the next upload for thur/fri as discussed with apw
<amitk> _then_ I start porting part2 of the FSL patchset to 2.6.31
<amitk> the stuff that bjf already SRU'ed into jaunty
<amitk> thats it from my side
<apw> ok
<apw> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: 386 Flavour (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: 386 Flavour (apw)
<apw> Testing has shown that the percieved performance gains from switching to i586 in the archive we actually due to gcc-4.4.
<apw> Therefore the 386 flavour is required.  This has been reintegrated into the kernel package.  Item closed.
<apw> [ACTION] apw to close the 386 flavour task
 * apw pokes mootbot
<apw> hrm
<apw> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Union Mount Solution (apw)
<amitk> MootBot: kick
<apw> The latest Karmic kernel now has aufs included.  Testing reports on the livecd have been good so far.  This item is basically done.  Will monitor for a bit then close.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to close the 386 flavour task
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Union Mount Solution (apw)
<apw> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.56 (updates)
<smb>             Planning new proposed upload to get Acer Aspire Ones booting
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security)
<smb>             2.6.27-14.36 (proposed+security)[14] with 5/24 verifications
<smb>             LRM-2.6.27-14.20 (updates)
<smb> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security)
<smb>             2.6.28-14.46 (proposed)[13] with 4/15 verifications
<smb>             ABI bumping versions of LRM and LBM waiting as well
<smb> So Intrepid and Jaunty need a bit more bugs verified against the proposed
<smb> kernel.
<apw> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<apw> Kernel is currently frozen for alpha-3.  We also have lots of updates for the ports architectures hopefully they will all build on the next upload.
<apw> The big thing is the proposal to enable AA for the next upload.  Pending jjohansen's feedback
<jjohansen> I think yes
<apw> ack
<apw> [TOPIC] Status: ARM (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: ARM (amitk, bjf)
<amitk> no more to add
<apw> do we need this separate in general?
<amitk> probably not if we have a blueprint
<apw> ok ...
<apw> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<apw> Released an updated Jaunty netbook release pulling us up to the tip of jaunty and pulling in some oem patches.
<apw> we are waiting there on testing feedback
<cking> ...no word yet
<apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> 5 regressions were added to the bug list this week
<ogasawara> 1 regression is already Fix Committed and 1 is In Progress
<ogasawara> The remaining 3 are Triaged of which 1 is assigned to smb
<awe> apw: ChickenCutlass uploaded it... no status yet
<apw> we seem to be getting a lot of regressions all of a sudden
<apw> is this due to more testing or?
<ogasawara> apw: yes, that's the only explanation I can think of
<apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Off to a slow start today.  Refer to http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090721.html for current stats.
<apw> with the bugs being assigned bugs in a lot of cases, they are likely to move from incomplete to incomplete
<apw> and not change your apparent stats i guess
<cking> sorry, I've been focused on OEM stuff today
<apw> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<ogasawara> apw: I was thinking that might be the case for some, I definitely don't think we'll see a large shift from open to closed
<apw> ack
<apw> 3...
<apw> 2...
<apw> 1...
<apw> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair Selection
<ogra> 0
<apw> who's up
<bjf> me
<apw> ogra, simon didn't say
<cking> good man
<ogra> :)
<apw> [ACTION] bjf to chair next meeting
<apw> then i think we're done ... thanks all
<apw> #endmeeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to chair next meeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:31.
 * apw shakes head at MootBot
<amitk> MootBot: kick
<nizarus> ping boredandblogging
<nizarus> the LoCo council meeting is cancelled ?
 * ausimage was wondering that
 * DiegoTc ask the same question
 * janc_ is here
 * ausimage is here for New York State Ubuntu Team :D
<nizarus> it's 19utc i'm not wrong ?
<ausimage> I had it as 3pm EDT at least from my calculation
<DiegoTc> yeap
<boredandblogging> waiting on quorum
<DiegoTc> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=7&day=21&year=2009&hour=19&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<DiegoTc> its 19utc right now
<janc_> juliux, popey: ping
<popey> sorry I'm late
<DiegoTc> no problem
<DiegoTc> :)
<janc_> we can start now, I guess?
<popey> go for it
<boredandblogging> yup
<DiegoTc> :)
<janc_> what order do we use, by date or by the table?  ;)
<DiegoTc> table :p
<janc_> okay Ireland first then
<DiegoTc> janc_ Ireland wasn't approved on the last council meeting?
<DiegoTc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue149#Irish%20Team
<boredandblog_> yeah Ireland was last meeting
<boredandblog_> slovenia?
<DiegoTc> i don't about slovenia
<DiegoTc> I am waiting for Honduras turn ;9
<DiegoTc> ;)
<janc_> I guess they were also last meeting then (considering the date on the table)
 * ausimage waits for NYS, US :D
<janc_> okay Honduras then
<DiegoTc> :D
<boredandblog_> DiegoTc: do you want to introduce honduras?
<DiegoTc> okay
<tatica1> :-D Honduras
<DiegoTc> Well i am the team contact of U-hn
<DiegoTc> by emails I met some persons interested on ubuntu, and with the help of the u-ni we organized our first evet this year
<DiegoTc> we have received many help from the ubuntu centralamerican comunity, and we were plannung to organized some schools visits this month
<DiegoTc> but we cancel because of the political problems the country is having right know
<DiegoTc> we are 40 members, and actively 8-10 guys
<janc_> ah, right, we heard about that...
<DiegoTc> but we did one school visit this saturday
<DiegoTc> the country is adpting to the changes
<DiegoTc> and lets hope this doesn't stop us on out mission to spread ubuntu in the country
<janc_> DiegoTc, how long does this LoCoTeam exist?
<DiegoTc> janc_ funy question
<DiegoTc> the team exists since 2007 i think, but it hasn't don't anything
<DiegoTc> until this year
<popey> would be good if there were dates on the events on the wiki
<DiegoTc> when we started to move with help of the u-hn members as tatica1 which is here on the meeting
<DiegoTc> popey the events have links to the events page
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HondurasTeam/Honduras_ApprovalApplication is the page I am talking about
<janc_> seems like the renewed activity started around early March this year?
<DiegoTc> yes
<DiegoTc> actually febraury with our first IRc meeting
<DiegoTc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HondurasTeam/Reuniones_IRC
<janc_> I was guessing from the wiki page edit  ;-)
<popey> mmm pizza
<DiegoTc> hahaha
<popey> yes, that's what I'm getting at, it would be nice if the page had dates on, thats all
<DiegoTc> popey the pizza bash was one of our last events we did
<DiegoTc> we have done, my mistake
<popey> It looks like most of the activity has happened in the last 1-2 months..
<popey> I'd like to see a longer period of sustained activity..
<DiegoTc> we have on feb went we meet, march our first event, april, the flisol&jaunty party
<DiegoTc> june and july also we did activities
<janc_> well, preparing those events is activity too, but still at least 6 months would be nice to see
<DiegoTc> well from feb-to july are 6 months
<DiegoTc> ;)
<DiegoTc> don't you think
<popey> I'd like to see you guys and girls keep up the great work and come back to us around the karmic release.
<DiegoTc> well thanks for all popey
<DiegoTc> we will be here
<boredandblog_> DiegoTc: keep up the good work
<janc_> 7-2 = 5   ;)
<DiegoTc> :(
<DiegoTc> haha
<DiegoTc> okay thanks
<popey> Keep it going! Karmic release party - more pizza!
<popey> NY up next?
 * ausimage is here :D
 * ausimage sure hopes our endurance qualifies us ;)
<boredandblog_> can we get some sinatra in here?
<boredandblog_> NY, NY
<janc_> anyway, don't worry, NY State had to come back too, and it looks good for them now IMO  ;)
<ausimage> even if sustained efforts wax and wane
<ausimage> no not NY NY :(
<ausimage> FingerLakes ;)
<popey> Who's here for NY?
<ausimage> O/
<ausimage> popey I am...
<popey> I have already looked through the pages for NY and I'm easily already +1
<boredandblog_> agree with popey, +1
<ausimage> awesome!
<popey> impressive back catalog of work!
<popey> I think a lot of teams can learn from you guys!
<popey> and a magic approval application
<ausimage> :)
<ausimage> cproffit has been instrumental ;)
<janc_> +1 from me too
<popey> that's enough votes is it not?
 * ausimage holds his breath 
<boredandblog_> yup
<popey> awesome
<popey> well done!
<ausimage> Yeah! finally :D
<boredandblog_> ausimage: congrats!
<nizarus> congrats ausimage
<DiegoTc> congratulations asimage
 * TwoToneSpirit is proud to be a New Yorker.  :-)
<DiegoTc> ausimage
<zaafouri> congratulations =)
 * DiegoTc & U-hn saids congratulations to NY
<hal14450> so NY gets approval then ? we're finally official?
 * nizarus is counting seconds until tunisia call
<zaafouri> =)
<RachedTN> :)
 * zaafouri too
<janc_> hal14450, yes  :)
<ALAYA> congrats hal14450 :)
<hal14450> thaank you
<AliBB> hal14450,  Tunisia congrats NY :)
<zaafouri> =)
<RachedTN> Congratulations NY :) Hope we (ubuntu-tn) are the next :)
<hal14450> thanks all, and good luck to the other teams
<boredandblog_> nizarus: we want to the do the re-approvals on a mailing list
<boredandblog_> the procedure was that we would contact the LoCos...
<nizarus> boredandblog_, whow is that ?
<boredandblog_> we have a huge back log of re-approvals
<nizarus> ah ok i see
<nizarus> so we have to wait until we got an email ?
<janc_> and every time we approve a new team, next year the backlist becomes longer  ;-)
<boredandblog_> nizarus: yeah, don't worry about it did we contact you
<boredandblog_> s/did/till
<boredandblog_> is someone here from the Japan team?
<jkbys> I'm here for Japan team
<boredandblog_> jkbys: that applies to the japan team as well
<boredandblog_> we'll email the contacts and inform them about reapproval
<jkbys> I see
<nizarus> boredandblog_, reapproval without a meeting ?
<boredandblog_> apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused
<RachedTN> Ooops, I have prepared a party to celebrate our reapproval, I think I have to drink alone now
<zaafouri> RachedTN, me too ='(
<RachedTN> :'(
<janc_> jkbys, hope you didn't have to stay up until some ungodly hour...   :-/
<zaafouri> We will get it =)
<nizarus> we remove our line entry from wiki page or we keep it ?
<boredandblog_> nizarus: you can remove it
 * RachedTN whish the best for the others LoCos and keep the good works guys, VIVA ubuntu :)
<DiegoTc> boredandblog_ just one doubt
<janc_> DiegoTc, yes?
<DiegoTc> you told me we should put dates on our application
<DiegoTc> Â¿?https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HondurasTeam/Honduras_ApprovalApplication
<janc_> yes?
<DiegoTc> or i didn't understand well
<popey> The "Experience" section, yes
<DiegoTc> ohh thinks to do for the next meeting on october
<DiegoTc> ;)
<janc_> DiegoTc, yes, and if you want, feel free to ask us questions before then
<DiegoTc> well thanks for all
<DiegoTc> there is not pizza this night
<DiegoTc> hahah
<janc_> (we're often around in #ubuntu-locoteams if people want to ask questions)
 * janc_ hopes he can go back to the family BBQ now, already missed the cake for my nieces birthday  ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-22
 * lajjr rebooting
<liw> hi
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> yo!
<mvo_> jo!
<robbiew> heh
 * mvo_ mubbles something about firstpost
 * robbiew barely gets the agenda out...sorry
<mterry> hello
<evand1> hi
<robbiew> hmm...we seem a little light in attendance today
<robbiew> cjwatson: james_w: Keybuk: around?
<james_w> hi
<Keybuk> nope
<Keybuk> not here
 * Keybuk has swine flu
<robbiew> oh well...I guess I'd better keep this Dell Mini 10V then
<robbiew> :P
<robbiew> is cjwatson putting out release fires?
<robbiew> well...let's just get started
 * robbiew still needs to pack :/
<Keybuk> robbiew: you have a week yet
 * liw points everyone at http://www.onebag.com/
<robbiew> uh...DebConf my friend
 * james_w must remember to print off all the tickets
 * robbiew sends that link to his wife ;)
<Keybuk> ahh
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 3 deliverables
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 3 deliverables
<robbiew> evand1: usb-creator for windows this week...right?
<robbiew> but not IN Alpha 3
<evand1> by the end of the weekend
<evand1> correct
<robbiew> col
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> argh...someone at the door (delivery pickup)....brb
<Keybuk> evand1: you're going to work on it all weekend?  did David Mandala get on a plane to come visit? :P
<evand1> Keybuk: no, but just in case I'm going to dig an old fashion British moat.
<liw> isn't the entire country surrounded by a really big moat?
<evand1> lol
<robbiew> back
<robbiew> sorry...too many deliveries for Keybuk :P
<robbiew> mterry: you around?
<mterry> robbiew, yup
<robbiew> is the rsyslog stuff good to go?
<Keybuk> robbiew: heh, dropping off or picking up?
<mterry> robbiew, yup
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> Keybuk: picking up
<Keybuk> \o/
<robbiew> mvo: the aptURL policy stuff is done...right?
<robbiew> mvo_:^?
<mvo_> robbiew: yeah
<robbiew> sweet ;)
<mvo_> robbiew: we made adding much easier now via software-properites
<mvo_> and auto-adding needs *more* discussion
 * robbiew seems to recall seeing an update to the Server Installer Improvements blueprint indicating it was good to go...but will need to confirm with cjwatson
<robbiew> mvo_: right...I figured the auto-adding would need more "discussion" ;)
<mvo_> :)
<robbiew> doko setup the python 2.6 ppa for hardy...so that's done in my book
<robbiew> mvo_: you're done with our part of the upgrade support in Landscape, right?
<cjwatson> robbiew: whoops, at debcamp, timezone confusion meant I forgot about the meeting
<robbiew> ah
<mvo_> robbiew: yeah, I think it should be good, I'm waiting for feedback from the landscape team
<cjwatson> server installer should be done
<robbiew> cjwatson: no worries, wasn't sure if the ecryptfs thing was still keeping you busy :)
<cjwatson> nah, got that sorted
<mvo_> cheers to james_w for this (fixing it)
<robbiew> mvo_: ok...thnx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
 * robbiew checks the last 7 days...not bad
<robbiew> though Desktop always seems to kick our a$$
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Objectives
<MootBot> New Topic:  Objectives
<cjwatson> I've sucked this week due to travel (Tue's my usual sponsorship day)
 * mvo_ thinks he did a bad job this week too
<robbiew> cjwatson: yeah...I figured that would be the case over the next couple weeks
<robbiew> no worries...as long as Keybuk keeps meeting his goal of zero, you'll all be fine :P
<robbiew> don't forget to send me you objectives by next Friday
<robbiew> email is fine...since I don't trust the PDR tool
<liw> robbiew, next friday as in the day after tomorrow or the friday a week from that?
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> July 31st
<liw> (I honestly get confused by that expression every time)
<robbiew> for me..THIS Friday would be the day after tomorrow
 * robbiew ends his lesson
<robbiew> :P
<mterry> (mike adds, but the distinction between THIS and NEXT starts to get fuzzy 5 days out)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<robbiew> mterry: true
<robbiew> anything?
<mterry> Alpha 3 is in good shape!
<mvo_> auto-cdrom detection in apt is getting along nicely (via libudev)
<cjwatson> I've been talking about the server-installer-improvements work with Debian people here, and generally people seem to like the UI changes
<Keybuk> I think I have sreadahead ready to replace readahead-list on hard drives
<cjwatson> although I haven't shown anyone the actual patches yet ;-)
<robbiew> mterry: don't jinx it
<robbiew> mvo_: cool
<robbiew> cjwatson: nice...SteveG should like that ;)
<robbiew> Keybuk: Yoohoo!  I'm tired of having to uninstall readahead all the time :P
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
 * robbiew will be off-line this evening and tomorrow...travelling
<robbiew> though, as usual, I will have my Crackberry
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:30.
 * robbiew needs to get packing ;)
<robbiew> thanks all
<Keybuk> robbiew: have a good flight
<mvo_> have a good trip robbiew
<Keybuk> I look forwards to receiving max tomorrow :-)
<james_w> robbiew: it will probably take me as long as you this time :-)
<robbiew> thanks...lol
<ScottK> evand1: Is the KDE usb-creator included in the this week stuff?
<Keybuk> assuming that the boot time results for the Mini 9 and Mini 10 are the same
<Keybuk> (which they should be - they're identical hardware)
<evand1> ScottK: that's pretty much ready for upload, I've just been holding off as much as possible while I try to find time to finish the devicekit backend (the existing HAL code is a bit wobbly)
<Keybuk> I'm more than happy to lose the Mini 9 if somebody else has a use for it
<robbiew> Keybuk: bring it to the sprint...I'm sure we can find it a home
<Keybuk> robbiew: my attendance depends on what my doctor tells me when he calls tomorrow
 * robbiew may take it to run his own bootcharts :P
<evand1> ScottK: I told rgreening that I'd upload it though (I keep slipping on that though, need to dedicate some time to it before the weekend)
<ScottK> evand1: Thanks.  It'll be good to get that in.
<evand1> absolutely.  I'll endeavor to get that done.
<ScottK> Keybuk: I now have a mini 10v also and am interested in doing Kubuntu testing to see if it's worth the trouble to try and do flavor specific boot profiling.
<Keybuk> ScottK: it'd be certainly worth improving the performance of kdm and the kde desktop login
 * ScottK will not doubt ping you for some hand holding.
<Keybuk> in terms of the readahead lists, the move to sreadahead should fix that
<ScottK> OK.  Good.
 * ScottK saw your mail to the boot performance list today.
<ogra> Keybuk, can you also make my ARMs faster please ?
<Keybuk> no, but I can work on your LEGs
 * evand1 rimshot
<ogra> :P
 * ogra goes to #ubuntu-leg 
<Keybuk> I always remember that the security software installed on the Acorn 5000s was called ARM LOCK
<ara> hello, hello
<sbeattie> moin
<pedro_> hola!
<fader_> saluton
<eeejay> yo yo
<heno> hey
<bdmurray> hey hey hey ;-)
<charlie-tca> me too
<heno> let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<davmor2> hello
<heno> hey davmor2
<fader_> FYI schwuk was having connectivity issues earlier so he may or may not be responsive
<heno> UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> _o/
<pedro_> Last Thursday we had a hug day based on synaptic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090716
<pedro_> 134 bugs were hugged and the graph looks pretty great https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090716?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=synaptic-week-triaging.png
<pedro_> Thanks a lot to the hug day heroes: yofel, scifly, kamusin, micahg, kralph, mistrynitesh and kelvingardiner
<pedro_> btw some of them continue working on the hug day until yesterday :-) you guys rock!
<bdmurray> that's fantastic!
 * Kamusin :D
<pedro_> hey Kamusin :-)
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a hug day based on Evolution https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090723
<pedro_> people already started to work on it (yes we have an awesome community!), so if you have a few spare minutes please help us with it,  come on you know you want a hug :-)
<pedro_> and the last, we're looking for targets so if you have one or an idea please add it to the planning page
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
<heno> great, thanks pedro_
<bdmurray> firefox-3.5 might be a good idea
<pedro_> bdmurray, yeap , I'm adding it to the page
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> Nothing to report at this time, just a couple of renewals.
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> 8.04.3 finally got released last week, so hardy SRUs have slowed down a little.
<sbeattie> Although a few new ones came into hardy-proposed that were queued up waiting for post-release.
<sbeattie> There's still a number of jaunty and intrepid SRUs that could use testing.
<sbeattie> Thanks to Aldo Bortot, Steven Ellis, Conan Barnes, AntonÂ¡o SchÂ¡fano, Renzo Bagnati, grawity, aexl, Bryan McLellan, mcarni, Larry Reid for helping to test various proposed packages this week.
<sbeattie> and that's all I've got on that front.
<heno> ok, thanks sbeattie
<heno> [TOPIC] Alpha 3 testing status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 3 testing status
<heno> Have images been respun today?
<davmor2> yes over and over
<sbeattie> yeah, live cds are currently being respun
<davmor2> ubuntu lives have just gone up
 * sbeattie stands corrected.
<davmor2> alt's seem to be okay to test
<heno> are there issues beyond ecryptfs?
 * ara syncs her images
<davmor2> fglrx enabled mean you get no login screen
<davmor2> just found
<davmor2> windows isn't added to grub when installed side by side
<heno> ok
<heno> are we expecting the alpha will slip to Friday?
<davmor2> probably.  I'm not around much tomorrow at all
<davmor2> I swap clients around today so I could get as much done as possible and it's been going round in circles
<heno> fader_, sbeattie, schwuk: can you step in and help with image testing?
<sbeattie> yeah, can do.
<fader_> heno: Definitely... I can run tests in the background while working on some other stuff
<schwuk> Sure
<pedro_> I'll be testing some images as well
<davmor2> mind you we still don't need full coverage and with the breakages so far
<heno> cr3, fader_: how are we doing on getting the automated test running again?
<heno> thanks folks
<fader_> cr3 sent me an updated checkbox package today but it still seems to have some issues on karmic
<fader_> cr3: ^^ can you provide more info?
<fader_> (About timing at least)
<heno> it would be great to have some alpha 3 testing from cert - can we just blacklist bootchart testing?
<cr3> the problems to solve were: 1. upstart changed configuration; 2. some tests/attachments were causing checkbox to wait forever on stdin
<heno> or is more broken?
<cr3> these have been solved and other improvements are currently underdoing testing before releasing checkbox
<heno> 'other improvements'?
<cr3> fader_: the issue you discovered about ioctl not working on karmic can be disabled for now, I mostly need to disable stdin rather than detaching from the controlling terminal
<cr3> heno: I have folded a few changes completed for the oem team into the mix
<sbeattie> "ioctl not working on karmic"?
<cr3> as for timeline, I see nothing major, so a new package will be pushed this afternoon early enough to get some tests before the end of day
<heno> ok, that sounds good
<heno> coinciding with the last alpha images hopefully
<cr3> sbeattie: this line works fine on jaunty, fails with some error message on karmic: fcntl.ioctl(STDIN_FILENO, termios.TIOCNOTTY)
<fader_> That would be good timing :)
<heno> Any other topics?
<cr3> fader_: if you have the error message we used to have readily available, please paste to sbeattie
<cr3> heno: I will specifically try to get some laptop tests done before the end of day
<fader_> cr3: Will do
<heno> cr3: ok, great
<heno> seems we're done
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:24.
<pedro_> thanks you guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-23
<cody-somerville> hi
<cody-somerville> MC Meeting?
<ogra> ooohh, are all the discjockeys coming ? :)
<cody-somerville> oh yah!
<geser> yes, a MC meeting should be right now
<geser> but it looks like we don't have quorum yet :(
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-24
<Daviey> jono: you are an hour late.. working on the wrong timezone? :)
<jono> Daviey, eh?
<Daviey> jono: Sorry, just trying to make you think you got up at 6:30am for no reason :)
<jono> Daviey, screw you :)
<czajkowski> jono: and you got up to come to a reception like that, gesh! ;)
<jono> czajkowski, welcome to my life :/
<czajkowski> jono: have a *hug*
 * jono hugs czajkowski :)
<jarlen> well, then you at least got something for getting up early ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-26
<ongun> hi
<ongun> who can help to me
<czajkowski> ongun: with ?
<ongun> i have a problem
<ongun> can i ask or ?
<czajkowski> ongun: with regards to what? ask but not many people in here you may find -locoteams more people
<ongun> pc give : initramfs errors
<ongun> what can i do ?
<czajkowski> this really isnt the room to ask
<sladen> DPic: doesn't appear to be anything booked here today
<DPic> sladen, yeah, i chacked and added out meeting to the calendar
<sladen> DPic: wooh!
* DPic changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: First Ubuntu Gaming Team Meeting Today! Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2009-07-26  | #ubuntu-meeting Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<DPic> 1 minute to meeting!
<sakuramboo> w00t!
<DPic> time to begin!
<sakuramboo> im gonna be in and out of the meeting, since its my birthday, we might be having a meal soon
<DPic> everybody have the agenda up?
<sakuramboo> but, ill be here the best i can
<sakuramboo> i do
<DPic> everybody wish sakuramboo a happy birthday?
<TAG-again> Hey guys, its the ancient goat here
<Baby> happy birthday sakuramboo :)
<TAG-again> Ditto :D
<sakuramboo> thanks, everyone
<TAG-again> Heh, cant believe I made it
<sakuramboo> so, DPic, what kind of concerns are there that you might have?
<TAG-again> The airport wlan blocks irc :/
<DPic> sakuramboo, well, not so much my concerns, but the concerns of the commmunity that came up when i announced the group
<sakuramboo> ahh
<DPic> namely, that we'd be stepping on toes of debian-games
 * Baby comes from Debian/Ubuntu Games Team
<sakuramboo> i dont really see that as a concern because we wouldnt be package maintainers
<DPic> sakuramboo, that's what i wanted to emphasize
<sakuramboo> haha
 * pabs3 from Debian too
<sakuramboo> i do think, however, that we should be more proactive to suggesting games for debian games to package
<DPic> that's the next topic
 * goneri is from Debian Game
<DPic> being a gaming team at all, people unfamiliar with us will come to us with those kinds of requests
<DPic> i was thinking we could have a small team dedicated to communicating thsoe things to the debian games team if and when they come up
<sakuramboo> i was just gonna suggest that we should have a completely open line of communication with DG
<goneri> actually the Debian Games Team has already some MOTU
 * sladen waves at goneri (or even have them in your midst)
<Baby> more than that, we should have a continuous fluent communication among boths teams, in my opinion
<sakuramboo> but, my complaint is more with DG and their game suggestions
<KhaaL> DPic, that sounds good, considering how many things this team could do, its better to split and make mini-teams handling specific tasks
<DPic> yes, but making it the job of a few people to make sure that that communications happens might be necessary
<sladen> stop thinking us-and-them
<Baby> sakuramboo: what is your complain?
<Baby> sladen: right, we're in the same boat :)
<qubodup> hi
<sakuramboo> well, its not a complaint with DG, its more with using a bug tracker to submit package ideas
<sladen> Baby: and even more, some people will be in both :)
<Baby> sladen: hopefully :)
<DPic> that was another of the DG concerns
<KhaaL> one thing that i wonder is, should the ubuntu gaming team arrange gaming nights, clans etc, or should it focus only on "beaurocratic" things regarding gaming?
<TAG-again> Hey qubodup
<sakuramboo> suggesting a program for packaging is not a bug, its a package request
<DPic> if there two teams do the same thing, why do we need both? that's why we need a bit of separation just by the definition of our teams and what we do
<Baby> sakuramboo: I have no problems with anyone havin complains as long as we have feedback about them and can do something about it
<Noya> hey everyone
<sakuramboo> and my other problem i have with DG is the time length it takes to update packages
<Baby> we have limited resources :)
<DPic> sakuramboo, yeah, i don't think we can blame them, but perhaps directing people from our wiki page will help
<goneri> we accept help
<Baby> if we could have a list of priority packages we could at least make sure that those are as up to date as posssible
<Baby> but it's hard to guarantee that for all games
<sakuramboo> i understand that resources are a big factor, but i think that if we were to come out with a way for FOSS gaming developers to make it easier for them to pass them upstream to the maintainers, we would get them much faster
<sakuramboo> because the current method is, when a new release of a game is out, we need someone to actually KNOW that its released
<goneri> sakuramboo: how? You can already join us if you want to speed up packaging
<sakuramboo> and with a lot of the packages, most go unnoticed
<DPic> is this the kind of teachincal discussion that intrudes on DG?
<sladen> Baby: okay, so it would be useful to help prioritise, and have people (in general) help with notifying with a new upstream release is out?
<Baby> sladen: certainly :)
<TAG-again> Just a quick question about the format of the meeting, are we just going to tackle it via discussion, or will we use the by topic format?
<sakuramboo> goneri: i was thinking of getting in touch with all the current games offered, find out how they are all being offered (ie. ftp access, http, cvn, svc, whatever) and automate the process
<DPic> TAG-again, we'll go by topics, but if that brings up something new, it's OK
<sakuramboo> so that way, when a new version is uploaded, the script would download it, package it and release it to the repo
<aburch> sakuramboo: Like uscan and friends do?
<Baby> sakuramboo: not all of them are even maintained upstream
<sakuramboo> im not familar with them
<goneri> sakuramboo: like uscan and watch file?
<Baby> sakuramboo: it's really not that easy to make release-package cycle automatic
<sakuramboo> i understand that some projects arent worked on any more and may start to cause problems with this, but, i think that if we have some uniformity with the devs, it would make things much easier for everyone
<Baby> usuallu patches have to be removed or refreshed, some stuff in the build system changes, build dependencies change ...
<DPic> does DG have regular meetings?
<sakuramboo> we shouldnt have to patch the source, especially when you download it, you are getting the full source any way
<Baby> most of the serious stuff we do is through the mailing list
<Baby> so that everyone can intervene
<goneri> DPic: actually we are at Debconf9 right now
<Baby> sakuramboo: you often have to patch the source
<Baby> sakuramboo: sometimes it won't even compile otherwise
<sakuramboo> thats for bleeding edge
<Baby> in an ideal world we wouldn't need to patch right
<sakuramboo> and, its bleeding edge to the point that they arent even waiting for the patches to be put into the CMS
<DPic> goneri, is that once a year? isn't that a bit different?
<Baby> but in this world it usually becomes something unavoidable
<sladen> and if you're really lucky, upstream take the patch back so you don't need to keep it
<sakuramboo> i understand that its unavoidable, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt just give up
<sladen> but aswell as the debian/ directory you normally end up having to path *something* just to make it work
<sakuramboo> s/shouldnt/should/
<goneri> it depends on the meeting, there is also FOSDEM. What's the point?
<sladen> or to deal with some portability issues (especially if the "cross-platform" game tends to have an MS Windowsy focus
<Baby> in any case, this meeting is not about how to improve packaging methods right?
<sakuramboo> right
<Noya> okay, so what is the next topic on the list?
<sakuramboo> DPic: still on the goals, purpose and scope?
<DPic> that was bundled with explaining that people don't need to be concerned
<DPic> but let's go over it anyway
<DPic> basically, this team lives off of the ubuntu community, and focuses on the promotion of FOSS games and Ubuntu through each other
<DPic> fo example the gaming clan that we'll discuss later
<DPic> we're an advocacy/marketing group not a development/packaging group
<DPic> any technical discussions we have we will communicate with the DG team
<sakuramboo> question
<DPic> we only deal with foss games: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam#Why%20FOSS?
<popey> What's the rationale for not being the marketing mouthpiece of the DG/UG team? Rather than be a separate team?
<popey> i.e. why not join the teams that already exist?
<DPic> popey, UG? we are UG, aren't we?
<DPic> ah
<goneri> I've the feeling you want DG to do the grunt work :)
<popey> I am talking about DG (and the fact that there are Ubuntu Motu people on it thus making it a kinda DG/UG despite being called DG)
<sakuramboo> how are we to handle people who are anti-foss? like, for example, when our channel was first made, we had a lot of people coming in wondering how to get CS:S working in WINE and all about commercial games?
<DPic> we can still help them
<Baby> I'm thinking that perhaps there is some concern of Ubuntu not being so visible in the Debian/Ubuntu Games Team, might I be right?
<DPic> but our official projects and such won't be for proprietary games
<sakuramboo> ok
<DPic> Baby, like what?
<Baby> it was a question
<sakuramboo> well, one of the things someone brought up on the channel, and i think on the mailing list, was to help write documentation to help people getting WINE working with their games
<DPic> popey / goneri, having an ubuntu team really bring out more people from the ubuntu community and makes things easier to organize
<KhaaL> DPic, do we promote FOSS games that run flawlessly in wine, or do they have to be FOSS and native?
<DPic> sakuramboo, that's fine, but we wouldn't put it on the wiki as some official team project
<Baby> DPic: DUGT is currently also a Ubuntu Team
<sakuramboo> okay, i see
<Baby> or we pretend to be
<DPic> KhaaL, as long as it's all FLOSS, we're all for it
<DPic> sakuramboo, if out lists/channel becomes flooded with stuff about proprietary games, we might have to re-discuss this, but i don't think it'll be an issue
<goneri> sakuramboo: PlayOnLinux is maintained in the DGT
<sakuramboo> well, there are some FOSS games that are either written in things like C# or using windows libraries that cant be ported to other OS's without spending a lot of time and money to replace almost the entire game
<DPic> Baby, DUGT?
<Baby> Debian/Ubuntu Games Team
<DPic> ah, the acroym keeps changing
<DPic> haha
<Baby> what I'm trying to explain is that the Team is both Debian and Ubuntu
<goneri> actually, we was thinking we were Debian and Ubuntu Games Team since there was MOTU and DD in the same time since the beginin
<Baby> there was never an acronym anyway, not officially afaik :P
<sladen> https://launchpad.net/~pkg-games <--- "Debian/Ubuntu Games Team"
<DPic> Baby, yes i understand, but the concern would be with splitting up the teams and/or duplicating effort, right? i don't see that happening, and i think this team has already been some good progress here. would would want this team to merge with DG and simply manage our presence on the Ubuntu Wiki?
<Baby> some time ago we officially asked ubuntu developers who were packaging games to mix both teams and have a D/U Games Team and they accepted
<Baby> we didn't absorb them, we joined both teams
<DPic> Baby, so there are already two teams?
<sladen> DPic: would the focus you're interested in be marketing/promotional/front-end support/finding new games to package, rather than doing the packaging grunt itself?
<Baby> no, there is one team which is both part of Debian and Ubuntu
<sakuramboo> what about hooking up with playdeb.net?
<sladen> (something that the UGT is perhaps less good at?)
<sladen> +D
<goneri> sakuramboo: getdeb already use DG packages. They use to grab the debian/* files from the svn
<sakuramboo> ahhh, did not know that
<sakuramboo> but, they have packages that arent available by DG
<Baby> sakuramboo: yup, probably they do too
<sladen> actually, this is good, slowly, but surely we're figuring out what is already happening and hopefully it can be organised and written up
<DPic> sladen, yes, that's what the ubuntu community is great at IMHO
<DPic> and i think that there's so many people that would be interested in a group dedicated just for that
<DPic> of course, we want to be very close with DG and there can be much overlap in membership, but not in purpose
<DPic> i think we can get more done that way
<DPic> there are activities i don't think the DG team would do like have a gaming clan specifically for ubuntu...
<goneri> why not?
<Baby> I don't think there would be any problem with that if someone wants to take care of it
<goneri> clan, like a player team?
<Zarel> Erm, is having a gaming clan specifically for ubuntu even withing our jurisdiction?
<KhaaL> goneri, yes. I'd imagne a debian gamer would rather represent his distro than a derivate
<KhaaL> but thats just me
<DPic> teams that all carry ubuntu in the player names so all the windows/mac players will see
<Baby> goneri: I think it's something like the web portal for gamers we've been discussing for some time
<sladen> DPic: I don't think the Debian/Ubuntu game team would be objecting!... (though the likely reason is it's not something that has motivated anyway yet)
<sladen> anyone
<DPic> basically, this team COULD be part of DG, but i think we can do more by having two teams
<Zarel> I mean, organizing teams is something players should be doing, not like the Debian Games Team...
<goneri> DPic: isn't what append already? :)
<DPic> goneri, yes, i'm just trying to defend keeping it that way
<Baby> sladen: something like that was proposed two years ago in DebCOnf in Edinburgh
<Zarel> Oh, hmm, apparently it is something we should be discussing. My bad. Carry on.
<Baby> sladen: we just didn't have resources to implement it yet
<DPic> are those from DG okay with allowing us to continue running to see how it plays out? if you're still unhappy in the coming months we'll talk again?
<goneri> Baby: actually it was more about providing game servers for popular game
<Baby> DPic: we're not unhappy!!! :P
<sladen> Baby: darn, I was so busy trying to roll into my tartan... must have missed that
<Baby> DPic: we just want to get the best of the cooperation of both teams
<Baby> sladen: XD :)
<DPic> Baby, alright, my personal opinion, and i think the cast majority of people in this group like having this separate team that can be the sister team of DG
<DPic> vast*
<Baby> we should go to have dinner or we won't get any :P
<goneri> I've to leave. The Debconf restaurant is about to close.
<sladen> re-reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam  it currently states "...are a strictly a marketing and advocacy effort."
<DPic> Baby, goneri, don't you have laptops? =]
<sladen> goneri: ta for your time
<DPic> get all that food and gunk in the keys
<Baby> yup, we do
<Baby> :)
<DPic> so there is one semi-technical discussion i wanted to bring up
<DPic> which is the next topic on the agenda
<goneri> cya
<DPic> bug #386797
<Baby> oki, I have battery for 40 minutes :P
<DPic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/386797
<DPic> basically, everyone familiar with the needs of FOSS game/content developers, please read the bug + comments
<Zarel> Distributed content development?
<sladen> sounds like bzr/git and somewhere to host it
<Zarel> ...sharing resources? Can't we just make a forum for that?
<DPic> Zarel, it's less efficient
<sladen> codehosting, github, alioth, etc
<sakuramboo> Zarel: no, forums are not good for it because its just plain ugly and disorganized
<Baby> is that like a common repository 4 game data?
<Zarel> I suppose. So you propose a shared content repository?
<sakuramboo> i thinking of something like a sourceforge, but for art
<DPic> basically, i'm not too familiar with the subject, but i've talked to a lot of people who are saying that open source has conquered developing code together, but doing the same thing with content is much different, and is the #1 thing holding back FOSS games
<Zarel> An interesting idea.
<sakuramboo> DPic: thats true
<DPic> the bug report was to have launchpad implement features to enable just that
<sakuramboo> most developers are not artists
<sladen> yeah, images don't diff as well as code
<Zarel> And the other problem is, content probably shouldn't be shared too much between games - each game needs its own unique art...
<DPic> and we need to figure out what features developers need
<Zarel> Imagine if all games looked like Wesnoth. :/
<DPic> Zarel, well that sharing should be possible
<DPic> it doesn't mean all games will
<sakuramboo> Zarel: there are a few games that uses wesnoth art
<Zarel> Not, like, "As good as Wesnoth", which would be awesome, but like "identical to Wesnoth"
<Noya> what is about sites like http://opengameart.org/
<Zarel> sakuramboo: I know; that's why I used it as an example.
<DPic> more than just a repository, but actual distributed development of the content
<sladen> Zarel: would you rather good looking icons shared between games (example, a joystick icon, sound icon) or would you rather have to sit down for an extra day and draw (from scratch) a bunch of rushed icons
<sladen> Zarel: FLOSS is about sharing, that's where the development speed comes from (be it pinching code, or images)
<DPic> Zarel, and many games could use less stylistic artwork, and more generic realistic textures, etc
<Zarel> I guess copied art isn't as bad as poor art.
<DPic> sharing is what open source is all about, that doesn't mean all projects use all the same stuff and come out the same
<DPic> Zarel, and shared art can change within different projects and become something else, that's what it's all about
<sladen> Zarel: SVG files are the closest to "source code" and you can easily adapt those---perhaps it's about pursuade people to upload the originals, the .svg, the .xcf, the .psp rather than only uploading some downscaled 64x64 icon at the end
<Zarel> Actually, this is a _very_ good idea.
<Zarel> Sharing originals could definitely be useful.
<Baby> @dinner :)
<DPic> Baby, what/how is it?
<Baby> just eatable :)
<sladen> probably just finished queueing!
<sakuramboo> Noya: opengameart.org lookss pretty banging
<Noya> sorry to just mention it again, but what is about opengameart... it has interesting features like revisions, see here: http://opengameart.org/node/2437/revisions
<DPic> here's something someone emailed to me as one example of an aspect of content development http://www.imperialwinter.com/?sec=progress
<Noya> as I understand the site, everybody can upload open source art, remix it, upload it again etc.
<Noya> there are already meshes, textures, maps, sound, etc.
<Zarel> DPic: Fatal error: require_once: failed opening required file?
<Noya> (and no, I am not affliated with the site :)
<sakuramboo> Noya: i was totally unfamilar with that site, its gonna be my new home now, thanks :)
<Zarel> So is opengameart what bug #386797 is asking for?
<DPic> Zarel, strange...it seems to ahve just gone down
<Zarel> DPic: Unfortunate.
<DPic> Zarel, it's a lot of it, but not all
<sakuramboo> Zarel: opengameart looks like what i was thinking
<DPic> the link that i tried to send but just went down was another piece
<DPic> structured development of content for games/applications
<DPic> as in, how much of each piece of content is complete
<DPic> voice acting, textures, battletoads, etc
<DPic> and content development is also very useful for the blender foundation and their open movie projects
<sladen> battletoad
<sladen> ?
<DPic> it's a huge market that canonical could tap into
<sladen> it doesn't have to be Canonical :)
<DPic> sladen, no, but they already have launchpad which could be the center for code and content
<DPic> that would be incredible
<Noya> DPic: so, what exactly is missing in , lets say launchpad, to do what you just said?
<DPic> so far i've got the features of opengameart, the progress page that i tried to link from imperial winter and some other things
<DPic> but that's what i wanted this discussion to be about
<Octalot> Does opengameart have a solution for the problem of spotting copyvios?   One advantage of having a few artists attached to a project is that new art needs to fit the current project's style, so if something is suspected the artist can have suggestions about how to make their art fit -- which will catch people who don't have the talent to draw "their" art.
<DPic> what else could content developers use
<sladen> (personal guesses, but I want to here other people's):   Image previews, 3D previews, Simple Image diffing (hilighting/only showing the changed pixels in two images
<DPic> game content, or open movie content
<DPic> the end of this comment has a list of some features https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/386797/comments/8
<Zarel> I say that, for communities, it's best to have the entire community on one site. If opengameart already does what we need, no need to make another site. :/
<DPic> someone also mentioned verse http://verse.blender.org/
<DPic> Zarel, it does some of what we need, but not enough
<Zarel> Ah.
<DPic> from the launchpad comment:
<DPic> 1. nterpretation and visual representation of binary data as:
<DPic> gimp files (understanding layers, resizing, maybe a sort of "diffing" where you can see where changes are made.
<DPic> png and jpg files (understanding that they can be (resized) derivatives of gimp, photoshop or painter binary source files.)
<Baby> so the idea is to provide artwork for game developers?
<DPic> sound files (display a wave table, âdiffingâ by showing changes in this wave table with revisions, understanding volume changes.)
<Noya> DPic: I read those comments, and they are nice features,
<DPic> etc
<DPic> Baby, provide artwork, and features to help share and develope the artwork
<Noya> DPic: but I guess the major part is just to get a pool of open resources
<Baby> aha
<DPic> for games, normal apps that need artwork, and even open movies
<Zarel> DPic: Doesn't opengameart have a diffing feature?
<Baby> I'm not sure that should be a distribution's task
<DPic> Baby, no, it isn't
<sladen> currently we "understand" the differences in code by cropping it up into pieces based on the \n character, and then word with those
<DPic> Baby, it's a huge task
<Baby> I know, it's very huge
<DPic> Noya, i wouldn't say that's the major part, perhaps a major part, but only half of what is needed, if even
 * Zarel can't help but misinterpret each time he sees a sentence starting with "Baby,"
<sladen> you need the equivalent for $various binary files;  and need to work out whether the equivalent is splitting per layer, per object, by XML sub-trees, per scanline, per pixel
<DPic> Zarel, yeah it's weird typing them too
<DPic> lol
<Noya> DPic: how about getting a taskforce together for this
<Baby> Zarel: :P
<DPic> Noya, that would probably be necessary
<DPic> how should it be organized?
<Noya> DPic: some kind of workgroup, and ideally they should contact opengameart to work together if possible
<DPic> shall i create a launchpad team to detail everything we're looking for?
<DPic> or launchpad project?
<DPic> or launchpad blueprint?
<DPic> so many options!
<Noya> DPic: well ;)
<DPic> i think a team or blueprint would be most appropriate
<DPic> a blueprint would be a detail discussing the changes that would be necessary to launchpad
<Noya> DPic: maybe just a launchpad team and some wiki page / blueprint
<DPic> a team would allow us to have a mailing list
<DPic> alright i'll set that up and we'll talk about it again at the next meeting
<DPic> any last words on this topic?
<Noya> DPic: ideally you could write a mail to the list
<DPic> Noya, i will
<Noya> DPic: telling about the new group
<sladen> wiki + mailing list0r it
<Noya> DPic: and interested people could agree on a working group meeting
<DPic> mhm
<sladen> (all the ideas need picking out of the logs at  irclogs.ubuntu.com at the end of this meeting
<Noya> DPic: so we could focus on the many many other topics ;)
<DPic> sladen, yeah, i'm going to do that
<DPic> and put it on the wiki page
<DPic> that the agenda is cvurrently on
<sladen> what's next, you're in control
<DPic> so next topic: ubuntu gaming clan
 * KhaaL cheers!
<DPic> who suggested the idea?
<sakuramboo> ill join the clan, but i dont like attaching a group to my name
<KhaaL> i did, i suggest that the UG cooperates with ubuntu gaming night, at least during the nights they play FOSS games
<DPic> i'm not familiar with gaming clans, but i understand the purpose would be to show [Ubuntu] in each player gamer tag so that windows/mac users will see it
<KhaaL> (they reside in #UGN by the way)
<Zarel> Considering the state of FOSS gaming currently, we might want to unite all FOSS gamers in one, instead of having any sort of Ubuntu-only clan?
<KhaaL> Zarel, actually there is a reason for this
<DPic> Zarel, in one what?
<Zarel> There probably was, but I wasn't there to hear it. :/
<Zarel> DPic: One clan.
<sladen> [IDEA] Publicise Ubuntu Gaming Night
<KhaaL> thing is, if there is a ubuntu clan, and if we can get other distros to have clans of their own, then we could have tournaments and ladders for the FOSS community
<DPic> sladen, yes, let's do that too
<sakuramboo> DPic: Zarel, is talking about making a [FLOSS] tag and just have one big clan
<KhaaL> that will promote FOSS software, and also show the demand for gaming on the linux platform
<DPic> sakuramboo, well, so we'd have to play on non-FLOSS games?
<sakuramboo> no, but if people want to, they can
<Zarel> KhaaL: Oh, hmm, that's a very good idea.
<DPic> an interesting idea, but that might conflict with our no-proprietary standpoint
 * Zarel goes off to form a Windows gaming clan
<DPic> i say people should do it on their ow
<KhaaL> DPic, so the clanning thing is independant from UG?
<Zarel> It would, ironically, probably be smaller than the Ubuntu gaming clan. There aren't very many FOSS gamers on Windows. :/
<DPic> but we should have an ubuntu clan because many FLOSS gamers are still on windows/mac
<DPic> no, somebody said they got in contact and found that many of the FLOSS gamers on whatever game(s) were playing on windows
<sakuramboo> i would like to find out how many foss gamers are on windows vs linux
<DPic> KhaaL, were you the one that got the numbers?
<KhaaL> DPic, what numbers mate?
<DPic> how many FLOSS gamers are still on windows?
<KhaaL> no
<DPic> for some particular game(s)
<DPic> well, somebody found out the number was significant
<sladen> you'll probably find it's like Firefox;  most of the users are on MS Windows
<Zarel> Well, yeah, but that's more because there are few good alternatives for Firefox on Windows.
<KhaaL> well, then that should transfer them easier to linuxland :)
<Zarel> There are many more proprietary games on Windows than browsers.
<sakuramboo> i understand the firefox because of shear market share of windows
<KhaaL> Zarel, propeitary games wont be of our concern anyway
<Zarel> And the relative quality of proprietary games on Windows is higher than the relative quality of proprietary browsers. ;)
<sakuramboo> even if 100% of linux users use firefox, if 2% of windows users use firefox, thats about the same numbers
<KhaaL> well, either way the more foss software a user is using, that exists on both linux and windows, the easier and more appealing it becomes to make the switch
<Noya> fsda
<Noya> sry
<sakuramboo> i agree KhaaL, you cant migrate people all at once
<DPic> the question that really has needed answering is how we'd organize our clan
<sakuramboo> they need to use each program before making a switch to an different OS
<KhaaL> dosent matter if its 20% or 2% of the total windows users, our purpose is to make them penguin lovers in the end ;>
<Zarel> Works for me.
<Zarel> We could drum up publicity on sites such as Xfire...
<sakuramboo> if xfire actually worked on linux
<sakuramboo> instead of a crappy pidgin plugin
<KhaaL> DPic, depending on the amount of members, we''ll need one that will recruit members, another to do the technical things such as set up servers...
<KhaaL> but we should really look into the possibility to work together with UGN on this
<DPic> KhaaL, alright, we'll do that then
<Noya> again I would propose a working group for this
<KhaaL> they're ahead of us in this aspect and have already arranged gaming nights
<sladen> sakuramboo: what's this about xfire not working?
<sladen> sakuramboo: is it something that is broken and fixable?
<Noya> (not everz group needs a launchpad team, but a wiki page)
<DPic> i'm going to make a list of action items
<sakuramboo> xfire is windows-only
<Zarel> sladen: I think he's implying that xfire is Windows-only.
<DPic> and at our next meeting people can sign up for each of them
<Noya> DPic: good idea
<Polarina> Hello.
<DPic> Polarina, hi
<Noya> DPic: they could all use the same mailinglist, so every team knows what the others do
<KhaaL> ok, as a working groups purpose for this is to cover the possibility to work together with UGN?
<DPic> Noya, yeah, we won't have seperate mailing lists
<Zarel> We should really unite all the FOSS gaming PR teams. :/
<DPic> except perhaps for disctributed content development
<Noya> DPic: maybe just a wiki page per team and some person that is responsible for that team / working group
<DPic> Zarel, what other's exist?
<Baby> we have a mailing list for game teams with all the distros
<Noya> DPic: sure
<Baby> in freedesktop
<sakuramboo> i found it interesting that, i went to a UGN and the game of the night was armagetron
<DPic> Noya, yeah jobs is the last topic for the meeting
<Zarel> DPic: I mean, if others do exist. I wouldn't know about that.
<sakuramboo> we played more armagetron that night than any other game
<DPic> Zarel, so far i've heard of UGN, and perhaps they'd like to be absorbed
<Zarel> Let's annex them, forcefully. ;)
<KhaaL> DPic, keep in mind that UGN plays propeitary games aswell
<DPic> Zarel, haha who will lead the conquest?
<Zarel> Really? Ugh, no thanks, then.
<KhaaL> so we can cooporate in the FOSS gaming
<DPic> KhaaL, ah...
<DPic> yeah
<DPic> perhaps it will just be a partnership ratehr than a new team
<sladen> oh, it's not a game, it's IM with some extra meta-data
<KhaaL> its not like there are a plethora of propeitary games for linux anyway :|
<Zarel> Ever heard of Cedega?
<sladen> actually a Free version of that *would* be interesting, it's close to what Sugar and the current #ubuntuone people are working on
<DPic> lol
<sakuramboo> sladen: yeah, thats all it is, but it has some nice functionality, but all linux has is a pidgin plugin that sucks
<Zarel> You'd be surprised how many games are Linux-compatible with Wine and Wine-derivatives.
<DPic> Zarel, truth.
<sladen> sakuramboo: well, sucky things can be made less sucky
<sakuramboo> KhaaL: actually, there are a lot more than what people think
<KhaaL> Zarel, running through wine is not acceptable imo. gaming companies exploit the wine team efforts IMO
<sladen> sakuramboo: it's called bug fxing
<Noya> sakuramboo: yeah, you could try to help them fix it ;)
<Zarel> Fun fact, C&C 3 for Mac is basically just Wine + C&C 3 for Windows.
<sakuramboo> im not a developer ;)
<DPic> alright alright, back to topic =]
<KhaaL> sakuramboo, well they're not comparable even to the mac platform
<DPic> next up is fundraisers
<Zarel> Let's bake cookies!
<sakuramboo> sell sperm
<Zarel> ...I like my idea better.
<KhaaL> haha
<sladen> sakuramboo: no. but you're whinging, which means you've used it noticed problems and are able to report them
<sakuramboo> actually, no, i havent used xfire
<sladen> sakuramboo: which means you're already one up on my (I hadn't even heard of it;  at 13 million users, it clearly has a user-case)
<Zarel> I've used xfire, but that's because I run Windows.
 * Zarel dodges tomatoes
<Noya> DPic: well, we first would need a real webpage, ideally with a voting system
<sladen> in which case, who is saying that it sucks, or are we just repeating hearsay?
<KhaaL> regarding fundraising, we need to agree on how to choose a game. by largest votes? games showing most promise? games that just went FOSS? or games that are foss but dont run native on linux (thus, the donation would be a "bribe" to port it)?
<DPic> Noya, well how often would we do fundraisers?
<Zarel> I've always wondered which FOSS games are popular.
<Noya> DPic: so people could vote on game features, on specific games or floss gaming in general
<DPic> perhaps we should set a website
<Zarel> I mean, Wesnoth is #1, but who's #2? Does anyone even know?
<Noya> DPic: money would be distributed based on the votes
<sakuramboo> nexuiz?
<sladen> DPic: fundraisers for dying babies with Ubulalalland?
<DPic> Zarel, nexuiz
<sladen> in
<DPic> Noya, or perhaps we could just have a donate buton next to each game
<Zarel> There should be a list somewhere.
<Noya> DPic: I'd go the opengameart way
<DPic> Zarel, there are lists everywhere, but we should set up a website that is ubuntu-specific
<Noya> DPic: collect money from people that goes into a pot
<sakuramboo> DPic: i dont agree with that because we would only be helping out the, say, top 10 games
<Noya> DPic: then the money from the pot is distributed depending on various criteria
<sakuramboo> i think it would be better to collect money for some of the lesser known games
<DPic> sakuramboo, don't agree with which?
<KhaaL> by the way, if the funds would be divided depending on the votes, wouldnt that also mean most transfer-costs?
<Noya> DPic: most games will have a donate button on their website, I guess
<KhaaL> *more transfer costs
<pabs3> wow, this meeting is still going?
<DPic> KhaaL, exactly
<DPic> pabs3, yes =]
<DPic> and strong too
<sakuramboo> DPic: listing a bunch of games with donate buttons next to each one
<Zarel> DPic: I can't find very many lists ranked by popularity.
<sladen> and who/how would you then donate it _to_ ?
<sladen> handling money as-agent is a major hassle
<DPic> okay everyone, here's my idea
<Noya> sladen: I don
<Noya> t think so, if you do it transparently
<DPic> we implement an ubunt-specific list of FOSS games
<DPic> we can rank my popularity
<DPic> or whatever
<DPic> but
<DPic> each will have a link to contribute, and all the possible ways to contribute will be listed
<DPic> if their site has a donate link
<DPic> we'll direct users there for monetary contributions
<DPic> basically, planning isn't realyl worth it yet though because we need a website first
<DPic> so we'll put a website on our list of action items
<Noya> DPic: well, let me make another proposal
<Noya> DPic: people can donate money to the foss-gaming-site
<sladen> you can publicise the fact that "Helen, one of the Foobaruluma Zero car racing SIM developers is after a Wii-mote Car driving wheel to try and improve the bluetooth driving wheel support.  It's going to cost $150US, offers/donations welcomed"  (eg. specific project, specific person, specific reason, specific destination)
<Noya> DPic: the money goes into a pot, and how much money is in the pot is visible to everyone
<DPic> Noya, it's much harder to do that way. handling money is a hard task
<DPic> Noya, if we get to a point where we have the resources
<DPic> i'm all for it
<DPic> but it's not easy to do off the bat like this
<DPic> long term, we can aim  for that
<Noya> DPic: well, but a site with links to games you can donate too, I don't get the point of it
<KhaaL> ...if there only were a opensource competetor to paypal...
<Noya> DPic: I guess people wont notice the site, as it looks like an assembly
<Noya> DPic: with a pot you could motivate and advertise with something like "support the floss game scene"
<Noya> DPic: so people could donate to floss games in general, and not to a specific game, what they could do now anyway
<DPic> Noya, it's better, but this still does the job. we simply don't have the resources right now..
<Noya> that's the way opengameart works, and it seems it works quite well
<Noya> DPic: right, just wanted to complete here ;)
<DPic> haha ok
<DPic> next up, tournaments and matches
<Noya> DPic: maybe this could be another working group, and maybe we find someone who has time to manage an account for the money... just lets see
<Noya> (I'm silent now)
<DPic> Noya, we'd have to figure out the legalities ofthat
<DPic> KhaaL, did oyu also suggest tournaments and matches?
<KhaaL> regarding earlier topic , we can do it simple like, once the clan is challenged/challenging in a specific game, they (the members) make a small donation to that game
<KhaaL> DPic, indeed
<DPic> how should that be organized?
<KhaaL> Once we'd have our own clan up and running, we could, like i mentioned before, to challenge gamers in fedora, slackware, opensuse etc in certain games
<DPic> sounds good
<KhaaL> we'd only need a neutral observer or a clanladder for those kind of games
<KhaaL> (maybe we can ask FSF for sponsorship for this?)
<DPic> but basically we just have to set up the clan first
<KhaaL> exactly
<DPic> KhaaL, that would be cool
<KhaaL> so its something that we'll have to organize, once the clan is up and stable
<DPic> and other project ideas?
<KhaaL> actually
<KhaaL> i thought of something
<KhaaL> else
<KhaaL> I just realized how hard it was to buy a joypad that works OOTB for ubuntu!
<DPic> so what is the proposal?
<KhaaL> maybe we can encourage gamers to contribute to a gaming hardware compatibility wiki page?
<DPic> ah, not a bad idea
<KhaaL> for gamepads, joysticks etc
<sakuramboo> KhaaL: Super Dual Box Pro w/ PS2 controller
<sakuramboo> KhaaL: or, Logitech Wingman
<KhaaL> sakuramboo, i'll have to look at them tomorrow :]
<sakuramboo> :)
<KhaaL> i bought a saitek wich is an effetive brick
<DPic> i'll add that to our action list
<KhaaL> great
<DPic> any other ideas?
<Noya> so, does the ubuntu game night offer torunaments?
<KhaaL> Noya, not atm, they only play casually once a week
<sakuramboo> i got one
<Noya> wouldn't it be great to have tournaments once in a week or every two weeks?
<KhaaL> Noya, it would! but we need a clan going and organised :)
<sakuramboo> what about getting in touch with the quakecon guys to getting a table or something
<Noya> KhaaL: well no, actually something like a ubuntu game night, without a clan
<sakuramboo> showing off games like open arena and nexuiz, and also informing everyone that the quake series plays natively in linux, too
<DPic> sakuramboo, that's a great idea!
<Noya> KhaaL: ubuntu tournament night ;)
<DPic> when is it?
<Noya> sakuramboo: cool
<KhaaL> Noya, you mean not as a team event?
<KhaaL> but as a "lone-soldier event?
<Noya> KhaaL: right, more like a regular event, where people can play 1on1 or 2on2
<Noya> KhaaL: armagetron tournaments for example
<DPic> sakuramboo, when is itt?
<DPic> and where?
<KhaaL> Noya, cool - me like!
<sakuramboo> DPic: QuakeCon is aug 13-16, 2009
<Noya> there could even be tournaments that last one or two weeks
<DPic> Noya, that's what i was thinking as far as tourny's and matches go, it's organizing that's the question
<DPic> how do we organize
<DPic> sakuramboo, that's soon
<Noya> a tournament match is scheduled from monday to wednesday for example, and the two opponents could agree on a time for playing
<sakuramboo> DPic: yeah, its soon, so not doing it this year is fine, but its something we can shoot for next year
<DPic> sakuramboo, absolutely
<Noya> this is going on for the whole week
<DPic> great idea
<DPic> any other conventions people know of?
<Noya> and on sunday at 18utc there is the final
<sakuramboo> but, it also doesnt have to be just with quakecon, but other gaming conventions, too
<KhaaL> there is one problem though, how do we solve the ping issue once a US gamer wants to go against a EU gamer?
<Noya> people who dont attend to a match are disqualified :)
<sakuramboo> KhaaL: need to talk to nuxified.com (i think, might be org)
<sakuramboo> KhaaL: last year, they had an online tournament that seemed to go rather well
<KhaaL> sakuramboo, they are the ping gods?
<DPic> alright i's almost time to close up the meeting
<DPic> we have some closing topics first
<sakuramboo> KhaaL: no, but, they did it and could give tips
<Noya> KhaaL: lets get back on this later then...
<KhaaL> great
<Noya> DPic: go on :)
<DPic> future meetings: how often?
<KhaaL> often now in the beginning
<sakuramboo> i think once a season would be good
<KhaaL> to have follow ups and such
<DPic> i think we need a follow up to this meeting fairly soon
<DPic> in am month or two
<DPic> because we have a lot to get done
<DPic> and a lot of jobs to assign
<KhaaL> i agree
<DPic> and interest dies down when meetings don't stay regular
<sakuramboo> true
<DPic> i'm thinking once or twice a month is better
<Noya> DPic: once a month, and adjustable with variing topics?
<DPic> yes
<DPic> on the 4th sunday of each month?
<sladen> bag your spot
<KhaaL> same time?
<sakuramboo> that sounds good
<DPic> excellent
<DPic> now, jobs
<DPic> KhaaL, you will lead the ideas you suggested?
<sladen> I reckon something you should aim to do is organise a computer with a gamingin setup for Ubuntu prescenes at Expos
<DPic> gaming clan and tournaments/matches?
<DPic> sladen, another good idea. we'll have to talk about conventiones next month
<sladen> eg. FlightGear, TuxRacer, or a TrainSim, or something people can gather around and watch and a get hooked/drawn-in/have a go
<KhaaL> DPic, I can go for the clan but I'd like to have assistance since I'm startnig a fulltime job and will have a woman moving in fairly soon, so my spare time might get butchered
<DPic> KhaaL, congrats on the misses xD
<DPic> who's willing to help?
<KhaaL> haha, thanks :-]
<Noya> KhaaL: ;)
<KhaaL> i can see other distros if they're intrested in mustering up gamers and have a go at us. and see how FSF might be intrested
<DPic> KhaaL, yes, and email the list as well
<KhaaL> DPic, our list?
<DPic> yeah to find help organizing the clan and stuff
<KhaaL> will do
<DPic> is anyone willing to help me manage meetings?
<DPic> job includes: creating agendas, writing follow ups from readin the logs, creating actions items
<sakuramboo> i think next month we should divy up the jobs, wait to see who the actual regulars are
<DPic> it's not a very interesting job, but it's a bit big for me alone
<Noya> DPic: sorry, I'd love to help, but I'm busy working on glou
<DPic> Noya, that's okay. thanks anyways
<sakuramboo> because, i know there was one or two people that wanted to make this meeting, but couldnt
<DPic> sakuramboo, maybe you're right
<DPic> sakuramboo, did debconf get in their way?
<sakuramboo> no, i know the goat guy wanted to make it, but hes on a plain right now
<KhaaL> "goat guy"
<sakuramboo> theamericangoat, i think
<KhaaL> ah, well i got a very hilarious image in my head :D
<sakuramboo> TheAncientGoat
<DPic> sakuramboo, theancientgoat
<sakuramboo> sorry
<DPic> lol
<sakuramboo> yes
<DPic> KhaaL, hilarious or disgusting?
<sakuramboo> oh, okay, DPic, can we hostname ban that depressed kid?
<DPic> sakuramboo, what kinds of things was he saying?
<DPic> is he a troll?
<KhaaL> its was hilarious, i wasnt thinking of THAT goat :]
<DPic> KhaaL, haha just making sure
<sakuramboo> trolling and the first time i saw him, he connected with two accounts and the other account, he started flooding my PM wanting to cyber me
<DPic> ah, sounds like it's time to pull out the b&hammer
<DPic> somebody else actually registered #ubuntu-gaming
<sakuramboo> aight, dinner time for me, ill be around
<DPic> i'm an irc failure so i don't know how to do that, but i agree he should be banned
<DPic> alright everyone, thank you so much for coming
<KhaaL> DPic
<DPic> KhaaL, yes?
<DPic> i'll be posting a meeting summary on the minutes page (where the agenda is currently)
<DPic> it should be up within a few days
<DPic> our next meeting will be next month on the 4th sunday
<DPic> same time
<KhaaL> could you get the meetings and events in a public google calendar ?
<DPic> KhaaL, they are =]
<DPic> KhaaL, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Meetings
<Noya> christoph_debian: on schedule as always ;)
<KhaaL> oh, they're just hiding from me then
<DPic> you can subscribe to our calendar there
<KhaaL> w00t! awesome!
<DPic> thank you everyone!! this meeting has gone on strong for TWO FULL HOURS!
<DPic> any last words?
<KhaaL> long live the penguin!@#
<DPic> long live the penguin!
<KhaaL> thanks for hosting the meeting :)
<DPic> i hearby declare this meeting concluded!
<Noya> KhaaL: so
<christoph_debian> Noya, :)
<Noya> KhaaL: do you any site that hosts regular tournaments?
<Noya> +know
<KhaaL> Noya, no not really, i have been avoiding competetive gameplay last few years
<Noya> KhaaL: well, me too, but mostly due to a lack of tournament sites I know
<KhaaL> you have any in mind?
<Noya> KhaaL: nope, that's the problem
<Noya> I know those big tournaments where the "pros" play against each other
<Noya> clans
<KhaaL> hmmm, we might ask for that on the list - maybe there is one under a rock we havent looked under...
<KhaaL> like clanladder?
<Noya> KhaaL: right
<Noya> KhaaL: but I think there could be some interest in a tournament site that is for casual players also
<Noya> you know you have time next week, so you join a tournament with people that match your skill
<Noya> that would be ideal imho
<KhaaL> i think that sounds awesome!
<Noya> and the games could be games like teeworlds or armagetron
<KhaaL> but that would require the games to keep track of stats
<KhaaL> suck as kills per minute or such
<KhaaL> *Such
<Noya> KhaaL: yeah, that basically is what we want to do with the glou project
<KhaaL> in order to get matched to others in the same skill
<KhaaL> oh? tell me about the glou :)
<Zarel> ...
<Zarel> Aww, man, I missed the rest of the meeting.
<Noya> KhaaL: for the beginning I think a simple webpage with tournaments for different games would suffic
<Noya> KhaaL: well you know steam?
<Noya> KhaaL: or xbox live
<Noya> KhaaL: glou is essentialy the open source counterpart
<KhaaL> ohhh, thats awesome
<DPic> did the logging bot just show up after the meeting ended?
<KhaaL> how's implementing it in games? because different games in different languages will requier different type or libraries
<Noya> KhaaL: we develop an open protocol used for server listing and player stats
<KhaaL> DPic, is Zarel the logging bot? :p
<Noya> KhaaL: and a reference c library that can be used
<Noya> KhaaL: and bindings for this library
<Noya> KhaaL: http://glou.sourceforge.net/
<KhaaL> Noya, sounds great in my ears. its just convincing the existing developers to adopt the idea
<Zarel> Or was DPic kidding when he declared the meeting concluded?
<Zarel> Don't do that to me, man! D:
<Noya> KhaaL: well, the project started on the mailinglist of open source games
<Noya> KhaaL: this was four months ago, I invited the game developers of the major open source games to discuss the idea
<Noya> KhaaL: we should have developers from the top 15 open source games on the list or in our irc channel
<DPic> KhaaL, Zarel, ubottu joined after the meeting ended
<Noya> armagetron, and wesnoth, and the open source shooters ;)
<DPic> is that the logging bot?
<KhaaL> Noya, sounds like a good idea
<KhaaL> Noya, thought its a major undertakement
<KhaaL> even to find a time that will suit them all
<Zarel> Noya: Is there a list of top 15 open source games or something?
<Noya> Zarel: nope, I had to contact every single project
<Zarel> That doesn't sound like a very impartial list.
<Noya> Zarel: I wrote quite a large proposal for the idea to convince them to join the discussion
<Noya> Zarel: well, the are now on the glou-mailinglist, if you mean that
<KhaaL> Noya, how did the discussion go?
<Zarel> Are you sure you invited the _right_ 15 projects? ;)
<KhaaL> hehe
<Noya> Zarel: have a look at the link I posted
<Zarel> glou?
<Noya> Zarel: under development/projects there is a list of projects we contacted
<Noya> Zarel: yes, glou
<Zarel> You'll have to give me a minute; my ISP is incompatible with the Internet.
<Noya> KhaaL: very well, most people stated that the concept is great, they'll have a look on further development and want to see some code ;)
<Noya> Zarel: :)
<Zarel> Oh, I remember this!
<Noya> Zarel: wohoo we are not dead :p
<Zarel> This was the one in which one of our developers angrily burst in and demanded to know why we weren't on the list!
<Noya> Zarel: so, what game are you from? ;)
<Zarel> That's what "Contacted us on IRC" refers to. ;)
<Zarel> By the way, wz2100.net/contact is a completely dead page.
<KhaaL> guys, its time for me to crash
<Zarel> Change the contact information to:
<Zarel> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev/
<KhaaL> Noya, you're on the UG mailing list?
<Noya> KhaaL: yes
<KhaaL> great :)
<Noya> KhaaL: I'd suppose we should talk again about the tournaments... how about you send a mail on the list describing a bit the situation, and I'll join the discussion there
<Noya> okay people, I'm leaving
<Noya> any last questions ;)
<KhaaL> I'll do that, expect mailspam from me in the nearby future
<Noya> ?
<Noya> Zarel: I'll update the info, thanks
<Noya> /Ã/window 17
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-26
<kees> mdeslaur, sbeattie: starting!
<mdeslaur> yes!
<nxvl> \o/
<kees> nxvl: hola!
<sbeattie> o/
<nxvl> hola!
<kees> okay, so, this week, I'm going to try to flush my rally TODO list, and prepare for blackhat/defcon
<kees> I'm on community
<kees> that's about it from me.  mdeslaur, you're up.
<mdeslaur> I just published thunderbird, and will spend rest of day preparing laptop for blackhat
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> next!
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: it doestakea while for the cement you encase it in to cure.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: yeah :) let's just say it's a "clean" laptop :)
<sbeattie> I hope to work through one or more USN publications this week, since I didn't finish it at the sprally.
<nxvl> mdeslaur: oh, i got a spare HD
<nxvl> mdeslaur: before DF i just swap disks
<kees> sprally.  *snicker*
<nxvl> it easier
<sbeattie> Also, since I did an appalling job of community effort last week, I'll take over triage while jdstrand is on vacation (and possibly blackhat)
<kees> sbeattie: ah yeah, how is w3m coming?
<kees> sbeattie: every time I tried to do CVE triage last week, mdeslaur had already done it.  :)
<sbeattie> kees: my schroots are missing debuild for some reason.
<mdeslaur> kees: stop complaining :)
<nxvl> btw, jamie told me he was going to publish FF 3.6.8 this week before BH IIRC
 * jdstrand is here, but may drop
<sbeattie> so I'll dig back into it and see why they weren't installed.
<sbeattie> that's about it for me.
<sbeattie> have fun at blackhat!
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: I don't have debuild in my schroots
<mdeslaur> oh, nm...yes, they do
<kees> mdeslaur: usually you do the "sbuild" from outside.
<kees> er
<kees> sbeattie: ^^
<kees> mdeslaur: I wasn't complaining.  :)
<kees> sbeattie: was umt not working after an "mk-sbuild"?
<sbeattie> kees: um, dunno, then, umt build ad build-orig were failing complaining about it.
<sbeattie> s/ad/and/
<kees> sbeattie: hunh.  well, we can certain help debug.  :)  just let us know where we can help.
<sbeattie> kees: sure thing.
<jdstrand> shall I go while my connection is still here?
 * sbeattie is also still recovering a little from my laptop drive swap.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: all yours.
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> first off, sorry for being late
<jdstrand> this week I am at blackhat
<jdstrand> and on triage
<jdstrand> I'm technically on holiday today and tomorrow, but did manage to publish the firefox update today
<kees> heh.
 * kees hugs jdstrand
<jdstrand> other than that, that's it
 * jdstrand hugs kees back :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: as I said, I'll cover triage for you.
<jdstrand> oh, I missed that
<jdstrand> sbeattie: rockin' :)
 * jdstrand hugs sbeattie :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: enjoy your days off!
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> thanks :)
<kees> jdstrand: have fun!  :)
<kees> okay, any other business for the security team?
<Riddell> ** Kubuntu Meeting in a minute in #ubuntu-meeting
<ScottK> o/
<shadeslayer> \o
<apachelogger> hullos
<padams> hey hey
 * apachelogger swiftly needs to swap his system fonts
<shadeslayer> heheh
<Riddell> neversfelde, apachelogger, rgreening, ScottK: council ping
<ScottK> o/
<apachelogger> council pong
<Riddell> good evening friends
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Quintasan> \o/
<Riddell> anyone here for membership?
<rgreening> hey
 * Quintasan want kubuntu-dev, but after Neon is working
<j-b> are there rules somewhere for those kinds of meeting?
<Riddell> kubuntu-dev needs talking to kubuntu-dev people, not so much a general meeting
<shadeslayer> we need to get bzr-svn working before that ( for kdelibs )
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: oh oh btw search for bzr-fastimport
<shadeslayer> that might help us
<txwikinger> 0/
<apachelogger> Quintasan: just get in touch with someone from kubuntu-dev when you are ready
<Riddell> j-b: we chat on the topics on the agenda and hopefully come to a conclusion (we can get the council to vote in cases of geniune split opinions)
<cwickert> Riddell: I guess I am, but I haven't completed all the necessary steps yet
<Riddell> cwickert: let us know if you manage that before the end of the meeting then :)
<Riddell> first item is KDE PIM
<padams> w00t
<shadeslayer> my precious...
<Riddell> at Akademy the PIM developers had mixed responses when I asked
<ScottK> Riddell: I think it's clear we should stay with 4.4 for Maverick.
<Riddell> about whether we should ship 4.4 or 4.5
<Riddell> by the end of the week it become clearer that 4.4 would be the sensible thing to do
<padams> cwickert: tell them about fedora 14 :)
<Riddell> what's happening in fedora 14?
<cwickert> Fedora will probably ship 4.4 too
<apachelogger> are they merging with suse? :O
<Riddell> the argument against 4.4 is that it's unmaintained
<cwickert> which is a strong argument IMHO
<Riddell> but if it works that's not a problem, and I think the delayed startup for akonadi problems we had in 4.4.2 have gone as far as I can tell
<shadeslayer> Riddell: btw im trying out the beta 1 packages, but they work fine for me, i wont say anything else....
<ScottK> Riddell: We're stuck with maintaining it for Lucid for 3 years, so having it in Maverick doesn't make it worse.
<rgreening> KDE PIM + Kmail2 + Akonadi == FAIL for me
<apachelogger> ScottK is absolutely right
<Riddell> I've already updated the kde-l10n packages to use translations from PIM 4.4
<shadeslayer> maybe beta 2 will bring joy to the world?
<Riddell> apachelogger: is he ever wrong?
<apachelogger> didn't say that ^^
<ScottK> shadeslayer: It can do it for Maverick +1 then.
<jtechidna> sorry, power outage
<Riddell> now I suspect there are issues in our kdepim packages that should be fixed anyway
<ScottK> I think it would be great if someone provides PPA packages for testing, but there's no indication it is or will be ready for production use.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: but if we release kde 4.5.1 with maverick, why not new kdepim ?
<Riddell> kleopatra and use of gnupg are things I'd like to have reviewed
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Because it's not ready.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: packages are already in kubuntu experimental ppa
<Quintasan> ScottK++
<cwickert> ScottK: how do you define "ready"?
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: we should make sure that anyone interested will know where they are
<apachelogger> us not being the first to loose their head over it
<ScottK> cwickert: Usable, stable, won't eat my data.
<apachelogger> we had KDE 4.0 and got a beating, even though it was not even default
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: the site would be a BAD idea :P
<Riddell> able to safely upgrade from previous versions is an important requirement for "ready"
<ScottK> PIM is the one area where data loss hurts users the most and we should be conservative about it.
<apachelogger> then we had KDEPim 4.4 as one of the first and got a beating for kaddressbook and akonadi
<apachelogger> ...
<apachelogger> :/
<ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  That too.
<shadeslayer> Riddell: afaik no one had failures on lucid and i tested them out on maverick
<Quintasan> well, fresh install here, works just fine
<cwickert> ScottK: AFAIK it's not eating data anymore. we are running a many test systems with real life data
<JontheEchidna> upstream is not defining it as "ready" as it is: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-plasma-desktophx9879
<Riddell> shadeslayer: rgreening just said he had fail
<shadeslayer> rgreening: did the upgrades fail, or the app itself?
<ScottK> cwickert: I think when it can meet the normal KDE release schedule that'll be a sign it's mature enough to consider.
<rgreening> For me, on lucid that is, Kmail2 and Akonadi == 100% CPU and I cannot delete mail from my GMAIL IMAP.
<rgreening> it takes forever to load the message and cant delete. it's unusable
<JontheEchidna> for me, kmail2 + akonadi == akonadi-mysql taking up 100 MiB of memory while idle
<ScottK> If it's too scary for Fedora, I'm reasonaly certain it's too scary for us.
<apachelogger> ^^
<JontheEchidna> So it looks like pieces are already set in place for keeping 4.4 for maverick. l10n is taken care of and 4.5 is in the experimental PPA. I think we should motion to keep it this way
<apachelogger> also, if a release would happen I suppose itwould be jolly close to our own release
<ScottK> With 4.4, Kmail is usable on my netbook with 1GB RAM and an Atom CPU.  It doesn't sound like that would work at all well with Kmail2.
<Riddell> apachelogger: yes, since we're releasing at the start of october not the end
<apachelogger> and history tells that this is never a good thing
<cwickert> ScottK: the decision for Fedora is not set in stone yet
<cwickert> ScottK: but Fedora has one month more until they release then Kubuntu
<apachelogger> I think we agree that KDEPim 4.5 is no option for 10.10
<cwickert> s/then/than
<Quintasan> apachelogger++
<apachelogger> should be revisited at next UDS if possible though
<ScottK> apachelogger: I think so.
<apachelogger> to lay out a migration plan
<ScottK> I think we should definitely plan on it for 11.04 though.
 * padams agrees
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: +1
<apachelogger> aye
<rgreening> I agree. it's way too critical to foo someones mail
<Riddell> padams, cwickert: will kolabsys be wanting to review our packages in some way?  and are there KDE PIM 3.5 packages we should care about?
<cwickert> Riddell: yes there are packages
<Riddell> ..but should we care? :)
<ScottK> Riddell: I think we should get the Kolab 3.5 packages in.
<cwickert> Riddell: I think you should. I ready suggested to have the e3.5 client as an alternative a while back
<padams> that's up to youâ¦ we can help provide 3.5 packages and we can help with the 4,5 effort because we would like to see 4,5 packages for lucid
<Quintasan> If someone cares for 4.5 we have packages, right? So we can just tell them it can eat data but if users want to test it then go ahead
<ScottK> padams: I think it we are interested in providing 4.5 packages for people that want them via PPA, just not in the main repository.
<apachelogger> ack
<ScottK> It would be good both for testing and for early adopters.
<padams> ScottK: fine with me
<cwickert> ScottK: how about 3.5 then?
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: you were the one doing 4.5beta1 packages?
<cwickert> should this be in the main repo or also in a ppa?
<ScottK> I think 3.5 in Lucid is fine.
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: yep
<shadeslayer> theyre in experimental ppa
<Quintasan> great
<ScottK> cwickert: We just need to make sure they are correctly "branded" as Kolab kdepim so people don't get confused.
<padams> ScottK: or kdepim-ultra-old?
<cwickert> ScottK: so how would you do that?
<cwickert> kdepim-rock-stable
<ScottK> In the package name and description.
<ScottK> It should be easy enough, we just need to remember to do it.
<Riddell> ScottK: in Lucid?  as in backports?
<ScottK> Riddell: Maverick and then Lucid Backports, yes.
<ScottK> Riddell: I think the key is to position them as part of the Kolab system, not part of the KDE system.  Then users won't be confused.
<Riddell> padams, cwickert: how can we get 3.5 packaging moving?
<cwickert> Riddell: good question, I'm open to suggestions cause I don't know the (k)ubuntu workflow
<ScottK> Riddell: I think for the purposes of the meeting, we can agree we want them and I'll chat with cwickert later and sort out the details.
<Riddell> cwickert: I'd suggest turning up on #kubuntu-devel and asking for people to review the packaging you have
<cwickert> Riddell: ok
 * Quintasan wants to try that
<ScottK> I think we've agreed on the following for Maverick and KDEpim: KDE 4.4 for Maverick, Kmail2/4.5 in PPA, and KDE3.5 PIM packages for Kolab.
<ScottK> Any objections to that?
<apachelogger> cwickert: you make a package, show it to us, we will tell you that it is crap, you come with a new package, we will love it and then one who has appropriate permissions will upload ;)
<apachelogger> something like that in any case ;)
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: none here
<apachelogger> no objections
<Riddell> ack on that
<Riddell> as I said before we should look at the gnupg and kleopatra packaging for 4.4
<cwickert> apachelogger: sounds good, but can we please skip the first step? ;)
<Riddell> padams, cwickert: at the distro sprint last week the server team people suggested you turn up at a server team meeting sometime soon to look at the kolab server bits
<apachelogger> cwickert: awww, less fun for us :P ... but I suppose we can live without it ;)
<Riddell> their meetings happen on Tuesdays, not sure the time
<ScottK> I'll help them out with that.
<cwickert> apachelogger: you could have a look at http://files.kolab.org/apt/ubuntu/dists/karmic/kdepim-e35-extras/source/
<Riddell> August 12th
<Riddell> FeatureFreeze
<Riddell> that's the date to remember :)
<Riddell> groovy, moving on?
<apachelogger> uhh, the return of arts ^^
<cwickert> Riddell: please drop us a note when you are going to talk about kolab
<ScottK> cwickert: Will do.  I'd like to get the cyrus patches in first.
<shadeslayer> btw a patch in kdepim beta 1 needs fixing
<shadeslayer> if anyone is up for it :D
<ScottK> cwickert: We've totally removed arts from the distro.  It would be super helpful if we could work around needing it again.
 * apachelogger assigns the task to shadeslayer
<padams> ScottK: patches coming your way soon
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: heh :P
<ScottK> Excellent.
<apachelogger> oh, no arts :(
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: i fail at refreshing patches
<cwickert> ScottK: yeah, lets try to avoid arts...
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: something to learn then
<apachelogger> so
<apachelogger> shall we move on?
<Riddell> Video Player?
 * apachelogger pokes j-b
 * j-b pokes back
<Riddell> Kaffeine doesn't seem ready
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Quintasan> +1
<Riddell> personally I'd like to avoid adding another media framework
<Riddell> and I'd like to have a nice KDE UI
<Riddell> which leads back to Dragon
<Quintasan> I would vote in favour in SMPlayer but that seems impossible due to CD space and licensing reasons, I'm I right?
<apachelogger> Quintasan: also it looks like ewww :P
<apachelogger> so
<apachelogger> I propose vlc
<apachelogger> because
<JontheEchidna> Quintasan: licensing has made any mplayer-based solution impossible
<shadeslayer> vlc+1
<apachelogger> the nice people at amarok are pushing phonon-vlc and call it the next-gen phonon backend
<shadeslayer> also like i pointed out earlier, anyone migrating from windows will have a easy time with it
<Riddell> SMPlayer has a semi-KDEish UI but it's not great and not dl loading avcodecs means it's out
<apachelogger> so, if they are right we will end up with libvlc in the long run
<Quintasan> apachelogger: SMPlayer look eww? If you didn't even bother to look at the options then :3
<ScottK> What's compelling enough about VLC to make it worth switching now and maybe switching to Kaffeine in 11.04?
<apachelogger> I am quite sure j-b can reason why vlc would be a good choice
<Riddell> phonon-vlc didn't work too well when I tried it, although I see a new release has just been made
<shadeslayer> ScottK: id rather bangarang than kaffeine
<j-b> well, vlc might be a good choice, because it is plugin-based, as GStreamer, which makes it easier to distribute in parts
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Kaffeine/some other choice
<j-b> but I guess CD size is annoying for you.
<Riddell> vlc's player UI is not pretty at all in my opinion
 * apachelogger agrees with Riddell
<apachelogger> OTOH millions of windows users use it
<Riddell> it also needs some packaging and MIR love to get vlc into main and it's getting a bit late in the cycle for that
<apachelogger> so vlc could very well be a selling reason
<Quintasan> j-b: I have one question about the VLC, Are the problems with mkv files crashing VLC solved?
<j-b> Quintasan: yes.
<j-b> Quintasan: crashing wasn't a vlc problem but a libebml one, that is fixed in libebml 1.0.x
<apachelogger> Riddell: how about dragon for 10.10 and vlc as prospective target for 11.04?
<Riddell> the advantages of Kaffeine are DVB support and subtitles, j-b how does vlc manage with those?
<apachelogger> supposedly phonon-vlc is also more mature by then
<j-b> Sorry to be rude guys, but what is so difficult in actually coding a correct phonon player?
<shadeslayer> also phonon-vlc currently crashes for me on maverick
<j-b> shadeslayer: stacktraces are welcome.
<shadeslayer> so whenever i quit a app, i get that foobar app has crashed
<shadeslayer> j-b: on bugs.kde.org ?
<Riddell> j-b: dragon is a correct phonon player, for some reason kaffeine isn't using phonon which is what leads it to have problems
<apachelogger> j-b: it is more the maintaining than the coding IMHO
<apachelogger> dragon was also maintainerless for quite some time
<j-b> shadeslayer: I believe I fixed that bug in latest release, but yes, bugs.kde.org
<Quintasan> Riddell: I do not think subtitles are a problem, I have many Matroska files (with SSA subs inside), and VLC had problems with them, but now it is all fixed
<Quintasan> Problems == crashing
<shadeslayer> j-b: ok which is the latest release again ? :D
<j-b> shadeslayer: we have 2 students working on improving phonon and phonon-vlc
<Riddell> j-b: does vlc talk to pulseaudio properly?
<j-b> shadeslayer: 0.2.0
<txwikinger> why are we planning to change every release?
<j-b> Riddell: properly, as in "as well as gstreamer", no. But better than mplayer, yes.
<shadeslayer> seems that needs packaging
<Quintasan> txwikinger: because it seems that Dragon Player was ultimate failure?
<j-b> 21:33 < apachelogger> j-b: it is more the maintaining than the coding IMHO
<j-b> apachelogger: come on...
<Quintasan> at least that's what I heard
<Riddell> Dragon Player is fine, nothing failure about it, just a bit limited
 * txwikinger thinks it is very confusing for users if the packages change every release
<j-b> Riddell: DVB, yes. Subs, of course
 * apachelogger agrees with txwikinger
 * ryanakca agress with txwikinger too
<Riddell> j-b: I don't suppose there are any plans to make the vlc UI pretty and using oxygen icons?
<j-b> Riddell: ask what you need, and you will get it.
<j-b> Riddell: it is as simple as that.
<Riddell> now there's service :)
<j-b> oxygen icons, is like 20 LoC
<apachelogger> mhhh, that is servie a la quassel
 * apachelogger lieks that :D
<j-b> Riddell: seriously, I don't care if VLC gets inside Kubuntu, or not, that is not my choice and I am biaised. But if you need things, just ask.
<j-b> and my opinion, as a KDE user is that you need a proper phonon player
<Riddell> j-b: which would count out the vlc UI?
<j-b> Riddell: I don't understand the question, sorry.
<Riddell> j-b: vlc's UI isn't a phonon player
<j-b> and won't.
<Riddell> dragon is the only one I know of
<apachelogger> there are a couple of others on qt-apps IIRC
<j-b> Riddell: Kaffeine? banganrang?
<apachelogger> nothing terribly awesome though
<ScottK> It sounds to me like we ought to stay with Dragon for now and take another look for Maverick +1.
<apachelogger> oh yeah, bangarang is also there :D
<Riddell> Kaffeine is hard coded to xine
<apachelogger> j-b: kaffeine uses xine directly
<Riddell> isn't banganrang music focused?
<j-b> WHHHHHHHHHAT?
<j-b> OMG, not xine...
<apachelogger> Riddell: no, collection focused if anything
<shadeslayer> rgreening: no.. its good for video as well
<shadeslayer> brr
 * apachelogger hands j-b a cookie to calm him down ^^
<shadeslayer> Riddell: ^^
<Riddell> "Beside all the nice improvements Kaffeine is (again) directly using xine-lib instead of Phonon. " http://kaffeine.kde.org/
<apachelogger> Well.
<Riddell> which is why it doesn't work with my USB headphones
<apachelogger> Since I agree with txwikinger who is not amused about changing apps over and over again.
<apachelogger> I say we stay with dragon for 10.10
<Riddell> yes
<apachelogger> and look at this issue proper
<kstar> Sorry to butt into a meeting with an offtopic message, but just wanted to thank all of you for making such a rocking distribution.
<apachelogger> to either improve dragon towards become awsomest
<shadeslayer> well.. i think vlc for maverick+1
<apachelogger> or consider vlc for 11.04
<Adityab> vlc++
<j-b> apachelogger: recoding an actual phonon player isn't difficult, IMVHO
<ScottK> Any objections to Dragon for Maverick and consider it again at UDS for Maverick +1.
<Riddell> I think that's agreed
<ScottK> Shall we move on then?
<apachelogger> aye
<Riddell> message indicator is the next topic
<kstar> VLC is a good thing because Windows folk use VLC.
<apachelogger> j-b: the only time I ever looked at phonon was to play a video for a hoax application :)
<j-b> Mac people the same :)
<apachelogger> maybe I should look at it again
<apachelogger> j-b: well, thanks for attending :)
<j-b> apachelogger: no pb
<j-b> please, guys, if you need modifications to VLC or phonon-vlc, just _ask_
<j-b> seriously
<maco> i thought mac & windows people used whatever was default in their OSes...which definitely isnt vlc
<highvoltage> <3 VLC! (just had to chime in)
<ScottK> I think for M-I, the proposal is on by default for Quassel and Kopete, but not Kmail and no systray icons for Quassel or Kopete.
<j-b> maco: believe me, linux is the smallest of our OSes
<apachelogger> maco: they have tech friends who install VLC along with Firefox
<Riddell> message indicator has had some improvements since we last discussed it and I think we should have it used by default in maverick
<apachelogger> why is message indiciator not used by upstream?
<Riddell> which upstream?
<ScottK> apachelogger: All the patches are upstream.
<apachelogger> well
<Riddell> it is in Quassel and kmail and kopete upstream
<apachelogger> active by default
<ScottK> Since it's extragear, I don't think it can be active by default for Kmail/Kopete
<apachelogger> using message indicator would be a pretty grave change to how that sort of stuff appears in the KDE workspace isnt it?
<Riddell> but the plasmoid itself isn't in because aseigo wants it implementing using the status notifier protocol, trouble is nobody knows how you can squash what MI needs into that protocol
<Riddell> ScottK: agateau and me discussed some ideas for KMail, it probably needs a whole config dialogue page to itself since how you need it to work depends on how you use your e-mail
<ScottK> apachelogger: We've provided the MI widget by default for a few cycles now.  I don't think some enabling would be a grave change.
<ScottK> Riddell: Makes sense.  I think that should be Maverick +1.
<Riddell> yes
<ScottK> No point in doing all that for Kmail right before we switch to Kmail2.
<Riddell> also relevant kwwii said he could probably do a new icon for maverick
<apachelogger> but enabling it changes how kopete/kmail/quassel notifications are displayed?
<Riddell> the current star isn't too noticable (although that could be a feature for some people) and it doesn't quite fit in with the new systray icons theme
<Riddell> apachelogger: by not cluttering your systray
<Riddell> which is a win for me
<apachelogger> well, if upstream likes us to enable it I am all for it
<ScottK> apachelogger: It doesn't affect notifications, only systray.
<apachelogger> ScottK: so you still get notifications?
<ScottK> Yes
<Riddell> yes the VisualNotifications wouldn't change
<Quintasan> That quite defeats the point of MI IMO
<ScottK> Quintasan: You can turn them off if you want.
<apachelogger> hm
<ScottK> (at least for quassel)
<apachelogger> ahhhh, but the tray icons would be gone?
<ScottK> Yes
<Riddell> yes, pointless tray icons won't be missed by me
<ScottK> You could put it back if you wanted.
<maco> oh a less cluttered tray? i like that
<apachelogger> isnt that what the tray redesign + kstatusnotifier is supposed to archive? :P
<apachelogger> well, I think we should go with it and advertise it
<Riddell> and make sure upstreams are aware and don't object of course
<apachelogger> if people start complaingin soon enough we should revert though
<apachelogger> for the sake of not angering the users with every release
<ScottK> There's a checkbox to re-enable the systray icon for kopete too.
<Riddell> next item?
<Riddell> Ubuntu font
<ScottK> What's to discuss about it?
<Riddell> whether we want it on by default
<Riddell> although the Ubuntu Desktop team don't know it yet, they're going to have it included at some point soonish
<Adityab> font++
<Riddell> I think all kubuntu members have access to try it out
<ScottK> Yes.
<apachelogger> The font handles umlauts quite terribly
 * ScottK thought the Ubuntu font was the font for the Ubuntu logo.
<apachelogger> I pointed out some of the immediately visible things earlier in kubuntu-devel
 * ScottK didn't realize it was something for the actual system.
<Quintasan> and it looks quite awful on my 23" display
<Quintasan> too thin
<Riddell> ScottK: it's for the whole system font
<ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  I've just learned this.
<Riddell> it takes a little getting used to but I find it makes my desktop more interesting without being distracting
<JontheEchidna> I enjoy the font as well
<Riddell> nuno also likes it, not as much as liberation but more so than dejavu
<apachelogger> dejavu is utter crap I may say so
<ScottK> Do currently match upstream on font or are we already different?
<apachelogger> I am also more for liberation
<JontheEchidna> apachelogger: they are taking feedback about the font, so I would suggest that you report the umlaut issues as a bug
<Riddell> upstream has no font, it's an X issue
<shadeslayer> oh font
<ScottK> Ah.
<shadeslayer> ubuntu font ++
<shadeslayer> along with autohinting
<apachelogger> also liberation is more established and since the font is only supposed to go into public beta on 8th august or so...
<ScottK> It sounds to me like it's premature to make a decision.
<apachelogger> ScottK: upstream == nuno == liberation | droid
<txwikinger> isn't it quite simple to change the default font anyway?
<apachelogger> with which I agreee entirely
<Quintasan> apachelogger: +1
<Riddell> I think it would be a nice bit of cross-Ubuntu-variant cohesiveness to use it
<ScottK> Riddell: I'd propose we revist after it's public.
 * apachelogger would postpone to UDS actually
<apachelogger> discuss this at larger scale
<Quintasan> Does anyone know how the asian symbols look in Dejavu fonts?
<JontheEchidna> UDS is after release though
<JontheEchidna> way too late
<Riddell> it is public now, you can share it as you want so long as it's obvious it's a beta, it just isn't freely licenced yet
<ScottK> or not
<ScottK> Riddell: I guess that's the other thing, I'm not comfortable with deciding for it until the license terms are finalized.
<apachelogger> I am highly against changing the default font this late....
<apachelogger> and until it is public it is getting even later...
<Quintasan> One question, did anyone actually complain about the font being bad?
<Riddell> ScottK: as a free software zealot I'm not going to touch it if the licence turns out not to be free, but I don't think that'll happen
<JontheEchidna> this late? we're not even at the third alpha, and we were considering changing font at RC last cycle
<apachelogger> und then it will be too late when suddently it turns out that something is horribly broken...
<ScottK> Riddell: I don't think it will happen either, but I think we should accept it after, not before.
 * Mamarok doesn't liek the Ubuntu font
<ScottK> Considering it's easy to switch defaults, I'm not overly concerned about deciding this up to beta.
<Mamarok> like*
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that font was not beta though
<apachelogger> in fact that font was around for years
<JontheEchidna> and it won't be once its released
<JontheEchidna> and defaults are easy enough to change if there is a problem, as Scott noted
<Riddell> ScottK: it's mostly a problem for docs, not sure when they would want a decision by
<Riddell> a new version with bold is expected this week
<Riddell> let's check with our docs people when they need a decision and make sure we do decide before then
<ScottK> User interface freeze and beta freeze are the same day
<ScottK> So I think it's fine to wait.
<apachelogger> would we be using it for anything but menus?
<apachelogger> like actual text? (say browser)
<Riddell> apachelogger: fiddly to only make it apply to menus, I'd expect everything but fixed width fonts
<Riddell> (because that won't be done in time as I understand it)
<Riddell> I also had "rekonq defaults" on the agenda, although it seems less important given we don't know if rekonq will be supported for Qt 4.7/KDE Platform 4.5
 * apachelogger says -1 then because he finds the font very horrible for floating text - besides currently being essentially broken with umlauts
<Riddell> I need to contact the rekonq developers and get an answer on that
<shadeslayer> Riddell: a poke on rekonq@kde.org? :)
<Riddell> the agenda item was about removing all bookmarks from rekonq by default, settings homepage to google.com and setting default webpages to
<Riddell> +        <default>http://www.google.com,http://userbase.kde.org,http://www.kubuntu.org,http://www.kubuntuforums.net</default>
<Riddell> it's not ideal to hard code in google.com, would be better to use searchproviders somehow but I don't think that's possible
<ScottK> Riddell: I think it's pretty clear rekonq is unsuitable for default.
<apachelogger> ack
<ScottK> I'd thought we were going to discuss switching away from it.
 * Quintasan votes in favour of Konq and option of installing kpart-webkit
<ScottK> Arora is better, but still crashy on flash stuff.
<txwikinger> konq is really lacking a lot of important features
<Riddell> ScottK: rekonq 0.5 is far too crashy but 1.0 is due out before maverick and maybe they'll support qt 4.7 with that, needs asking anyway
<ScottK> Riddell: When is it due?
<apachelogger> I would like to bring up trying konq + kwebkitpart for one release since it performs a lot better in the reliability
<ScottK> We're running out of time "before Maverick".
<Riddell> ScottK: they have said they can do it to our schedule
<txwikinger> Is konq actively developed?
<Riddell> txwikinger: yes, khtml has improved in 4.5 to some extent
<ScottK> Riddell: The fact that I can't currently file a bug that won't get marked invalid immediately I find highly discouraging.
<txwikinger> Riddell: and the GUI?
<shadeslayer> txwikinger: yep, i was told to ditch development on rekonq and work on konqueror on #kde-devel one day :P
<apachelogger> kthml just doesnt have nokia and apple and google in its back :)
 * txwikinger wants tabs that can be re-ordered
<ScottK> Riddell: I think we should switch back to Konqueror now and consider Rekonq when there is something that might be suitable.
<apachelogger> well, I am for trying konq+kwebkitpart but really think we should be using firefox to begin with and other than that does not care
<Riddell> ScottK: I'm happy with that
<ScottK> Konqueror + khtml is a better choice than Rekonq right now.
<ScottK> apachelogger: We'd need to figure out how to deal with options that don't work with webkit if we shipped that.
 * txwikinger is for kwebkit whatever browser it will be
<ScottK> txwikinger: The problem is that we don't have any that are at all end user suitable at the moment.
<apachelogger> ScottK: I do not think they are that many
<apachelogger> oh oh oh, someone please make sure that with whatever browser we use that java works
<ScottK> apachelogger: OK.  We'd need to figure that out before switching to it.
<maco> txwikinger: mmm wait isnt webkit not-screenreader-friendly?
<apachelogger> ScottK: I am suggesting to try it for a pre-release and see how it goes
<apachelogger> so that we do not look into hiding stuff that doesnt need to be hidden because we do not ship with the webkitpart anyway
<maco> txwikinger: nevermind, that doesnt matter on kubuntu. nothing qt is screenreader friendly to start with
 * txwikinger needs webkit for the debugging stuff
<Riddell> if someone wants to review konq+webkitkde and work out how stable it is and what breaks in the config UI that would be great
<ScottK> txwikinger: Yes, but you can install stuff.  That's not a reason to make it default.
<txwikinger> ScottK: Sure I can install firefox :p
<ScottK> txwikinger: That won't get you webkit.
<ScottK> ;-)
<txwikinger> but firebug
<Riddell> any other business?
<ScottK> Any objections to Konqueor +khtml for now and Konqueror + webkit or Rekonq once we have a solid proposal and something that is tested to work reliably?
<ScottK> Riddell: Is ^^^^ what you think we decided?
<Riddell> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> Excellent.
<apachelogger> ScottK: looks like the settings are written all and entirely in cpp
<apachelogger> given a list of features that do not work with the webkitpart one can easily disable that stuff
<ScottK> apachelogger: All we need is someone to research it, provide a patch, and test.
<apachelogger> I think research is the biggest problem there ^^
<ScottK> shadeslayer is a rekonq fanboi, so we need another minion for that.
<shadeslayer> \o/
<shadeslayer> if someone kares enough to train me :P
 * txwikinger tests out konq+webkit
<ScottK> Riddell: I suspect we can close the meeting.
<Riddell> yes, 4.5 final tagging due tomorrow or next day
 * apachelogger hands everyone a cookie
<Riddell> so ninjas and testers needed after that
<shadeslayer> ahem... 4.5 rc was tagged
<Riddell> thanks all
<shadeslayer> \o
<j-b> Now that your meeting is over, can anyone explain me why Kaffeine doesn't use phonon anymore?
<Riddell> j-b: let's move to #kubuntu-devel
<j-b> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-27
<huats> morning
 * persia peers about
<mpoirier> hello ?
 * ogra waves
<dyfet> needs coffee
<czajkowski> there should be a bot in here that announces which meeting is starting
<ogra> czajkowski, arm team :)
<persia> czajkowski: Used to be, but google ical is special
<czajkowski> ogra: thanks
<czajkowski> I can go back to idling now
<ogra> you dont want to know about our arms ?
<czajkowski> you waved, clearly your arm works
<ogra> one at least
<persia> If only that was all it took :)
<dyfet> he is clearly not disarmed
<rsalveti> persia: add a section for rootstock, please
<persia> Anyway, our usual chair seems absent.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:05. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100727
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100727
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100727
<persia> (wait for rsalveti to update it before you load the page :) )
<persia> Actions from the prior meeting is incomplete, but some can be dredged from prior logs, so:
<persia> [TOPIC] dyfet to work on openjdk FTBFS
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to work on openjdk FTBFS
<rsalveti> persia: go
<ogra> persia, dropped
<dyfet> That was dropped
<persia> OK, then there's a reason it wasn't there :)
<persia> [TOPIC] md5sums and manifests for daily images (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  md5sums and manifests for daily images (NCommander)
<ogra> the md5sum stuff is fixed, the manifest file copying isnt
<ogra> i'm taking that over
<ogra> (so add a new action)
<persia> [ACTION] ogra to sort manifest files for live images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to sort manifest files for live images
<ogra> tx
<persia> [TOPIC] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<ogra> c/o
<persia> I think this still isn't working, unless someone knows otherwise
<persia> RIght.
 * ogra doesnt
<persia> [ACTION] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<persia> OK.  That's all the actions I see from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/07/13/#ubuntu-meeting.txt
<ogra> yeah
<persia> [TOPIC] Workitem tracker
<MootBot> New Topic:  Workitem tracker
<ogra> looks horrid
<persia> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<persia> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<persia> Indeed.  Everyone with alpha-3 tasks should go do them tomorrow.
<ogra> rsalveti, we need to make a rootstock release this week to close the spec items
<rsalveti> ogra: we'll, don't worry
<ogra> persia, tomorrow ?
<persia> OK.  Today for those in less advanced timezones :)
<ogra> persia, `??
<ogra> why is that ?
<ogra> there is still a week until A3
<ogra> but it would be nice if we got below the trend line for fridays release team meeting
<davidm> I'm concerned that we are so far behind for A3
<persia> I guess, but if everyone tries to do a task in the next 24 hours, the graph will look better on Friday for the release meeting.  Is the point not to have a pretty graph?
<ogra> by either postponing or closing
<persia> closing is better.
<ogra> well, i'm inclined to postpone lightweight panel
<GrueMaster> I'm looking at my tasks and I think I am still blocked.
<ogra> what i got from dx is far from even becoming a panel
<davidm> I agree, it does not look good for this cycle
<ogra> nothing i couls write in a week
<GrueMaster> Testing the panel is one of my tasks.
<ogra> right
<davidm> ogra, can we get by with the old efl launcher?
<ogra> NC|Alaska, is unlikely to work on subarch detection before A3 either
<ogra> davidm, the panel is *additional* to the launcher
<ogra> davidm, to replace the gnome panel, which we have to ship anyway for gdm
<davidm> I misunderstood, I thought it was replacing part of it.
<ogra> i'll just clean up the session and we're back to the lucid setup
<davidm> OK
<davidm> I think we have to do that
<ogra> persia, [ACTION] ogra to re-enable the lucid efl session
<davidm> dyfet, where are you on the mobile-m-omap-edid-autodetection
<ogra> from subarch detection: [gruemaster]Test upgrade path [1 day]: TODO
<persia> [ACTION] ogra to re-enable the lucid efl session
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to re-enable the lucid efl session
<dyfet> coordinating the i2c issues with kernel team
<ogra> GrueMaster, i think you can do that already, just dist-upgrade a beagle lucid->maverick
<davidm> dyfet, when will it close?
<ogra> dyfet, are there bugs filed `
<GrueMaster> Ok.  Will add that to my todo for today.
<persia> ogra: so, postpone subarch generally?  I thought this was nearly done and critical for broad board support.
<ogra> dyfet, if so, please note them on the blueprint
<dyfet> okay
<ogra> persia, no idea for what michael needs it
<dyfet> and yes there is a bug for this
<ogra> persia, its an *additional* way of detecting subarches
<ogra> we're still using the old one anyway
<persia> I thought it was a fallback to use SoC-based solutions when the individual board couldn't be identified.
<ogra> persia, right, but we only support boards we know atm
<ogra> for which we still use cpuinfo
<persia> Well, anyway, if it's not ready by Friday, best postpone, as lnding images after that is too tight.
<persia> yeah, but that's a bug :)
<ogra> well, one item is a warning message
<ogra> that he should be able to implement in 1h
<ogra> even on monday
<persia> anyway* anyone have stuff about *other* blueprints?
<rsalveti> there is rootstock
<ogra> dyfet, there are a lot of WIs on the EDID spec you could start working on already
<rsalveti> but we're planing to do a release this week and close the 2 items
<ogra> rsalveti, just a matter of an upload ...
<ogra> to close the WIs
<rsalveti> yep, no more than that
<persia> wasn't robclark working on a bunch of related stuff?
<persia> (for EDID)
<ogra> dyfet, if you have identified the missing pieces for I2C, coudl you rebuild a kernel with them enabled so you can start developing the script ?
<ogra> persia, rob works on panda
<ogra> the spec is for omap3 where you dont have edid tdetection in the omapfb driver
<dyfet> ogra: I can do that, I got stuff unpacked and back together here
<persia> Ah, so yes and no :)
<ogra> dyfet, great
<persia> Moving on...
<persia> [TOPIC] Kernel status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel status
<persia> cooloney: Why don't you go first
<cooloney> yeah
<cooloney> i just prepared a new omap4 branch for maverick
<cooloney> it includes the latest TI release L24.8
<cooloney> i tested on my board, more stable than before
<ogra> also robclark's work from pargue ?
<ogra> there are plenty of HDMI patches that fix lots of monitor issues
<cooloney> robclark helped to figure out the HDMI issue.
<ogra> not sure he sent them to you already
<cooloney> but i think lag helped to test them
<rsalveti> he posted a branch, but not sure if it's included on this one
 * ogra doubts that
<cooloney> ogra: no problem, i will check it later
<ogra> cool! oney
<persia> rsalveti: Could you make sure cooloney has the r
<persia> branch url?
 * ogra hands cooloney an r
<rsalveti> http://gitorious.org/~robclark/pandaboard/robclarks-kernel-omap4/commits/L24.7_panda-hdmi-patches
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://gitorious.org/~robclark/pandaboard/robclarks-kernel-omap4/commits/L24.7_panda-hdmi-patches
<ogra> so persia is happy :)
<persia> THanks :)
<cooloney> thanks man
<persia> mpoirier: ready?
<mpoirier> yep.
<mpoirier> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/b563650 - kernel oops in dss/core.c when rebooting: put on hold 'cause no one can reproduce.
<ogra> ++
<mpoirier> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/b591941 - SDHC card init failure: started looking into u-boot - need to track down default factory images.
<mpoirier> Alpha3 kernel will be uploaded on Jul 30, meaning that any patch to be in included in Alpha3 must be submitted and reviewed before Jul 30.
<mpoirier> ..
<persia> aren't factory images available from the beagleboard wiki?
<ogra> what do you call "factory" ?
<mpoirier> nop, not the exact same ones you find in nand when first receiving your board.
<persia> whatever was used initially in the factory :)
<ogra> ah
<mpoirier> I need the exact same branch - sd card seems to behave much better with it.
<mpoirier> process was very loose at the time.
<persia> davidm: Do you have a previously unused board on which dd may be run?
<ogra> note that they are built completely differently from our packages
<mpoirier> Yes, I know.
<mpoirier> the point here is the seem to work.
<ogra> since u-boot upstream is never compiled natively
<mpoirier> find out what is different and you fix the problem.
<ogra> and with a completely different toolchain
<ogra> well, i'll upgrade to the latest upstream for sure before A3
<persia> Alright.  Does anyone have a board with pristine NAND?
<ogra> not anymore
<mpoirier> I have one.
<davidm> persia, sorry was distracted
<mpoirier> that is how I got the lead.
<davidm> what was your question I'm not understanding the backscrool
<persia> mpoirier: So, what's the issue getting the "factory image"?
<mpoirier> I need the branch from where they were compiled.
<davidm> I have a new Beagle C4 sitting on my desk, right now.
<persia> davidm: Looking for a "factory image" from a beagleboard NAND to troubleshoot bug #591941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591941 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "SDHC card not recognized" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591941
<davidm> mpoirier, you have an email into TI for the sources correct?
<mpoirier> Yes, that is correct.
<persia> mpoirier: Ah, that's trickier :)
 * ogra recommends to just ask in #beagle
<mpoirier> I did.
<ogra> they definately know where the source is
<mpoirier> no one know.
<persia> ugh.
<ogra> koen or sarkoman surely do
<davidm> OK, mpoirier if using the TI loaders the bug is gone, if using ours the bug is present in the same kernel is that correct?
<ogra> since sarkoman maintains all omap3 branches
<mpoirier> correct.
<mpoirier> I did not talk to sarkoman.
<ogra> ah, he is the author mentioned in our package
<mpoirier> keon suggested I talk to mhasim, something I did.
<ogra> just mail him
 * ogra doesnt know mhasim
<persia> [ACTION] mpoirer to coordinate with sarkoman or TI internal sources to get branch with "factory" bootloader source.
 * cooloney hands up about the robclark's patches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mpoirer to coordinate with sarkoman or TI internal sources to get branch with "factory" bootloader source.
<mpoirier> koen claims he built the u-boot image that is found in nand.
<ogra> i'd claim the same
<ogra> apart from the above i mentioned
<ogra> we dont build cross ...
<ogra> but effectively all new boards should be shipped with the latest upstream u-boot
<ogra> so whatever was recent at the time the board shipped
<persia> Right, so we have an action.  Maybe it's worded wrong, but let's move on, and complete in spirit if not by letter.
<persia> mpoirier: Anything else?
<ogra> if TI adds special patches they tag the version as -dirty
<mpoirier> ..
<ogra> else its plain upstream
<persia> lag: Your turn
<ogra> lag, great blogpost :)
<cooloney> just a quick interrupt,
<cooloney> robclark's patches are not in the release from TI this month
<ogra> can you add them to our branch ?
<ogra> so they get some testing in advance
<persia> cooloney: OK.  I'll actio  you with that after lag
<cooloney> ogra: yeah, i already discuss with sebjan
<cooloney> he will ping robclark and sync with me
 * ogra thinks lag lags
<lag> :)
<cooloney> and let rob to send out patches for merge
<ogra> perfect
<lag> What would you like to know?
<cooloney> before sebjan leave for vacation
<cooloney> i'm done
<ogra> lag, any intresting news about you and your work
<lag> * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>     * Nothing new this week
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>     *  Tested security update kernel from smb; however, after installing on 2 Babbage 2.5 boards, both boards are believed to be broken
<lag>        * Tobin Davis will retry the kernel again at his home
<cooloney> lag: can you read your blog on voice. for us, that's awesome
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * REBASE   : ti-omap4 branch is now at 902.6
<lag>    * PATCH    : Patches sent to kernel-team and upstream to fix OTG usb issue on OMAP3 in Lucid and Maverick
<lag>    * PATCH    : ti-omap4 patches received from TI (~220 of them) - cooloney is fighting his way through them
<lag>    * PATCH    : B592295 SYNC_LOST_DIGIT - TI have released a patch for review - awaiting feedback
<lag>    * PATCH    : B608095 Sent patches to make USB and Ethernet work on the Beagleboard XM
<lag>    * PATCH    : B605832 LG monitor behaving incorrectly - TI have released a patch for review - awaiting feedback
<lag>    - ON GOING : B477106 once again made contact with fixer - estimated time until fix 2-3 weeks
<lag>    * ON GOING : B591941 work has resumed - initialization in u-boot/xloader is now being looked at
<lag>    * ON GOING : B605488 waiting for the daily build to succeed before progressing - last built 20/07/10
<lag>    * FIXED    : B601226 Kconfig system no longer allows the module to be built on OMAP devices
<lag>    * WONT FIX : B563650 abandoned and won't be looked at until someone is able to reproduce
<lag>    * MISC     : Gumstix investigation: Lucid (!display + USB) Maverick (display + !USB)
<lag>    * MISC     : Igepv2 board we acquired doesn't seem to hook up with the SD card
<lag>    * MISC     : Mobile team is working on a cmd line installer, allowing for headless install
<lag> Open out your clients everyone :)
<lag> Which blog?
<lag> Both or just the latter?
<ogra> cooloney, you mean as ogg so we get the aussie accent ?
 * lag slaps ogra
<ogra> *grin*
<lag> ..#
<lag> ..
<persia> Right then: no questions.
<ogra> is aynone looking into the iegp2 issue ?
 * persia retracts
<lag> Which issue?
<lag> The SD card one?
<ogra> in case linaro wants to use them
<mpoirier> amitk has the board with him
<ogra> yeah
<lag> Speak to mpoirier
<ogra> ah, k
<cooloney> mpoirier: i think you make it works
<mpoirier> nop, sd card wouldn't work at all, even with the kernel you find on their web site.
<ogra> i know GrueMaster had the gumstix kind of working
<GrueMaster> Should we put resources into the gumstix issue?  It was indicated at the sprint that these boards were not going to be production.
<mpoirier> yes, lucid on gumstix worked but no display.
<ogra> and i think including usb and display
<lag> * MISC     : Gumstix investigation: Lucid (!display + USB) Maverick (display + !USB)
<GrueMaster> That's the result I had working with ogra's gumstix.
<ogra> lag, right, thats what i was commenting on
<ogra> GrueMaster, you didnt have USB ?
<GrueMaster> Although I don't know that usb worked on lucid.
<GrueMaster> Not on maverick.
 * ogra thought you clicked around in oem-config
<ogra> k
<ogra> my bad then
<GrueMaster> No, I had no response in oem-config.
<davidm> GrueMaster, the stix's will be out by Maverick releases, would be nice if it works but not critical
<ogra> davidm, these sticks `
<ogra> ?
<davidm> Gumstix
<ogra> i though they were non production stuff
<GrueMaster> Ok.  Chris had indicated otherwise.  Maybe I mistook him.
 * ogra thought that too
<davidm> It's nice to have not hard required
<ogra> i thought he said these specific ones will never get produced
<persia> That's the sort of thing improved-subarch-detection is intended to solve
<GrueMaster> My interpretation was that they were moving up to omap4.
<ogra> persia, fixing kernel probs ?
<davidm> Perhaps I was not in the room for that conversation
<persia> ogra: avoiding board-specific solutions.
<persia> Anyway, running out of time, so moving faster.
<persia> [ACTION] cooloney to work with robclark and sebjan to merge HDMI patches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cooloney to work with robclark and sebjan to merge HDMI patches
<persia> [TOPIC] QA status
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA status
 * cooloney nods to persia 
<ogra> we should probably shuffle the topics on the agenda
<persia> OK.  Maybe not.  We'Ll come back if anyone wants it in the AOB section (if there is time)
<ogra> Qa is often blocked by non building images
<persia> true.
<GrueMaster> Nothing new from QA.
<ogra> so images should before QA imho
<persia> [TOPIC] ARM Porting / Build issues.
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting / Build issues.
<ogra> dyfet, ?
<dyfet> Ah...
<dyfet> Yes...the only additional ftbfs I worked on last week was ido
<dyfet> openjdk was dropped for me
<dyfet> most of the rest are blocked on qt
<ogra> how about firefox and xulrunner
<persia> I thought Qt got solved Friday or Saturday
<dyfet> it may have
<ogra> mutter seems to fail too
<ogra> QT was solved thursady already, but a new upload was building at that time
<ogra> though it should be possible to fix a good bunch of the issues witth give backs
<dyfet> I can look at ftb's post qt later today
<persia> Many may just need to be retried.
<persia> OK, runnng out of time.
<persia> [TOPIC] Image status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Image status
<ogra> does anyone know the order ?
<ogra> images fail to build due to an unfound error in the loop mount code
<persia> DO we have a bug number?
<ogra> i'm still researching (doing my 8th local testbuild today)
<persia> Please file an (incomplete) bug for tracking.
<persia> [TOPIC] Rootstock
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rootstock
<persia> rsalveti: You really want this as a standing item?
<rsalveti> persia: it's just because I fixed a lot of stuff
<rsalveti> and doesn't belong on the other topics
<rsalveti> so :-)
<persia> Well, make your announcements quickly :)
<rsalveti> more fixes on the repo, planned release for this week
<rsalveti> trying to move to user space emulation for root
<rsalveti> but also got stuck on the *hang*
<rsalveti> and noticed one other qemu bug went back to maverick
<rsalveti> the unsupported syscall: 335 that michael fixed on lucid
<rsalveti> still debugging and going to check why this bug returned for maverick
<persia> Was something dropped on merge?
<rsalveti> probably
<rsalveti> persia: move on
<persia> Great!  It sounds in muvh better shape.
<persia> Anyone have anything else that can be discussed in two minutes?
<ogra> i'm holding a tutorial hour tomorrow http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/Tutorial_Hour_Topics
<ogra> just FYI
<persia> [LINK] http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/Tutorial_Hour_Topics
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/Tutorial_Hour_Topics
<ogra> (no idea what i'll talk about yet :) )
<persia> ogra: Nice to have something in AOB.  Thanks!
<persia> OK.  That's it.  Thanks for your attendance.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:59.
<ogra> time well filled :)
<pitti> hello
<sabdfl> hey pitti
<pitti> hey Mark, how are you?
<kees> \o
<Keybuk> Hi
<pitti> so, just one topic today?
 * pitti pinged mdz
<pitti> cjwatson: hello Colin; here?
<pitti> ah, no, he said he was on vac
<kees> so, meeting?
<pitti> mdz doesn't answer, and he's got the only topic
<kees> hrm
<Keybuk> let's just defer that to the next one then
<Keybuk> I think people are either at Debcamp or on holiday
<pitti> *nod*
<kees> yup
<mdz> sorry I'm late
<mdz> looks like we canceled
<sabdfl> looks like
 * manjo o/
<lag> o/
 * smb \c
<cking__> o/
<mpoirier> o/
<kamal> o/
<cnd> |o|
<jjohansen> \o
 * ogasawara waves
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<lag>  * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>     * Nothing new this week
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>     *  Tested security update kernel from smb; however, after installing on 2 Babbage 2.5 boards, both boards are believed to be broken
<lag>        * Tobin Davis will retry the kernel again at his home
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * REBASE   : ti-omap4 branch is now at 902.6
<lag>    * PATCH    : Patches sent to kernel-team and upstream to fix OTG usb issue on OMAP3 in Lucid and Maverick
<lag>    * PATCH    : ti-omap4 patches received from TI (~220 of them) - cooloney is fighting his way through them
<lag>    * PATCH    : B592295 SYNC_LOST_DIGIT - TI have released a patch for review - awaiting feedback
<lag>    * PATCH    : B608095 Sent patches to make USB and Ethernet work on the Beagleboard XM
<lag>    * PATCH    : B605832 LG monitor behaving incorrectly - TI have released a patch for review - awaiting feedback
<lag>    * ON GOING : B477106 once again made contact with fixer - estimated time until fix 2-3 weeks
<lag>    * ON GOING : B591941 work has resumed - initialization in u-boot/xloader is now being looked at
<lag>    * ON GOING : B605488 waiting for the daily build to succeed before progressing - last built 20/07/10
<lag>    * FIXED    : B601226 Kconfig system no longer allows the module to be built on OMAP devices
<lag>    * WONT FIX : B563650 abandoned and won't be looked at until someone is able to reproduce
<lag>    * MISC     : Gumstix investigation: Lucid (!display + USB) Maverick (display + !USB)
<lag>    * MISC     : Igepv2 board we acquired doesn't seem to hook up with the SD card
<lag>    * MISC     : Mobile team is working on a cmd line installer, allowing for headless install
<lag> ..
<smb> lag, poked tobin today but not have a feedback yet.
<smb> ..
<lag> Regarding which issue?
<lag> Oh, okay
<lag> He's worried that it will blow up his board
<lag> I've put him on to cooloney
<lag> ..
<smb> Somehow I cannot believe a kernel would o that. But lets see the outcome
<smb> ..
<lag> My thoughts exactly
<lag> ..
<bjf> i just pinged him, "GrueMaster> bjf: I am not going to be able to test it until we hear back from Freescale as to how it broke two other boards.  I don't want to kill my system."
<lag> Bingo
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<bjf> Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<bjf> Release Meeting Bugs (4 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<bjf> ==== Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (40 across all packages (down 6)) ====
<bjf>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<bjf>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<bjf>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<bjf>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<bjf>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (down 1)
<bjf>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<bjf> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (127 across all packages (up 25)) ====
<bjf>  * 24 linux kernel bugs (up 17)
<bjf>  * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<bjf>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<bjf>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<bjf>  * 2 linux-ti-omap bugs (down 1)
<bjf>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<bjf> === Milestoned Features ====
<bjf>  * 16 blueprints (Includes HWE Blueprints)
<bjf> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:125 (up 5) ====
<bjf>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<bjf>  * Breakdown by status:
<bjf>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<jjohansen> Submitted next revision to lkml and issued pull request for Maverick
<jjohansen> Includes bug fixes for Bug #599450, Bug #581525.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581525 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Lucid: system becomes unstable randomly, seems related with apparmor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581525
<ogasawara> jjohansen: i've got your pull request applied locally.  will push it up once my test builds finish.
<jjohansen> Remaining work items are mostly userspace, and will be sorted out in the next week
<jjohansen> ogasawara: sounds good
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> jjohansen, i assume the lucid fix went to stable upstream?
<jjohansen> bjf: the lucid fix hasn't been posted yet
<tgardner> bjf, it won't go stable until after its in Linus tree
<jjohansen> We changed what we were doing last week after consulting with the security team
<bjf> tgardner, i understand, I was just wondering if stable had been cc'd
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<apw> Nothing new to report.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<tgardner> Still tracking Maverick. No known issues.
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen> pulled in recommend XSAVE patch from fedora kernels, and we are building kernels that will only work with pv-grub or modified ami's  Kernels are in testing and currently available at
<jjohansen> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~jj/linux-image-2.6.35-12-virtual_2.6.35-12.17~pvops_amd64.deb
<jjohansen> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~jj/linux-image-2.6.35-12-virtual_2.6.35-12.17~pvops_i386.deb
<jjohansen> git://kernel.ubuntu.com/jj/ubuntu-maverick/pvops
<jjohansen> have also set up test kernel with pv-on-hvm drivers from amazon compute cloud.  There are two versions, the unmodified drivers, and the v6 version that is being pushed upstream.  I need to spend more time evaluating each but v6 seems the correct one to use atm.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~jj/linux-image-2.6.35-12-virtual_2.6.35-12.17~pvops_amd64.deb
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~jj/linux-image-2.6.35-12-virtual_2.6.35-12.17~pvops_i386.deb
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<ogasawara> kernel-maverick-config-review
<ogasawara> Only major change is we've enabled CONFIG_M686 per blueprint:foundations-m-686-compile
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<bjf>  * The date for the Triage summit is set. It will be on the 11th of September between 10AM EST and 2PM EST. The classroom will be for the instructional sessions in order to allow leverage of the Lernid tool. We have decided no
<bjf> t to use the kernel channel other than for wiki development. I'll be sending an e-mail on Wednesday to the parties we want to have deliver this training.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<apw> Testing at the Maverick Rally show threw up a bug in the the readahead tracking patches.  This was resolved and we now have a near final patch set.  This will be pushed to kernel-team list this week for review.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<cking1> Recent changes since last meeting:
<cking1>   automate fwts ISO build (for USB keys)
<cking1>   check msr registers for nx bit, check nx bit across all CPUs
<cking1>   fix typos in man page
<cking1>   --batch-experimental, --interactive-experimental options
<cking1>   --show-tests reports tests based on --interactive, --batch flags
<cking1>   virt: more understandable results output
<cking1>   mcfg: improved test failure explanation
<cking1>   battery: more thorough, make test interactive
<cking1>   s3: add variable delay between each S3 iteration
<cking1>   investigate 2TB BIOS disk limits
<cking1> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Maverick kernel saw some significant changes last week while at the Platform Rally:
<ogasawara>  * We updated to CONFIG_M686 per the foundations-m-686-compile blueprint.
<ogasawara>  * The toolchain saw a last minute update which introduced a serious issue where i386 kernels would no longer boot.  Luckily an upstream patch to resolve the issue has been isolated and applied.
<ogasawara>  * We rebased the Maverick kernel to the latest 2.6.35-rc6 mainline kernel and uploaded, ie 2.6.35-12.17.
<ogasawara> Considering all the changes, please be sure to help test.
<ogasawara> Alpha 3 is Thurs Aug 5th which is ~1week away.  Any patches that are to land in the Alpha3 kernel need to be submitted and garnered the appropriate Ack's *before* this Friday (Jul 30).  For those that have already sent patches, I'll be applying them today.
<ogasawara> Also, please note we are significantly above the Alpha 3 burn down chart's trend line.  Review your list of work items for Alpha 3 and start closing out tasks asap.  If your work items won't be completed by the milestone, re-target it or mark it POSTPONED.
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> ||                   || Upd./Sec.     || Proposed      || TiP || Verified    ||
<smb> || Dapper: Kernel    || 2.6.15-55.84  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Hardy:  Kernel    || 2.6.24-28.71  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Jaunty: Kernel    || 2.6.28-19.61  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Karmic: Kernel    || 2.6.31-22.60  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.31-214.28 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-112.28 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.31-307.15 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Lucid:  Kernel    || 2.6.32-24.38  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       LBM       || 2.6.32-24.17  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.32-207.20 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-608.15 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ti-omap   || 2.6.33-502.8  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.32-308.13 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> All proposed packages have moved to updates. Awaiting security release anytime
<smb> soon. Since there has been some weird testing problems on Lucid fsl-imx51 we
<smb> will hold back on them.
<smb> ..
<tgardner> who really cares about a security issue on ARM? Is anyone actually vulnerable?
<smb> tgardner, Could be due to generic issues
 * cking1 cares about it on his nexus one ;-)
<smb> tgardner, Anyway we were explicitely told to do arm
<smb> cking1, I would care but we have no impact there :)
<smb> ..
<bjf> since this is supposed to be the 10.04.1 kernel, are we slipping that as well?
<tgardner> I'm of the opinion that if x86 passes CVe tests then promote it.
<smb> bjf, We agreed to upload all other kernels
<ogra> tgardner, our buildds might care about security on ARM
<smb> bjf, Just keep back the fsl-imx51 on Lucid
<ogra> they all run lucid
<bjf> smb, ok, that's not what I thought you just said
<smb> Ok, sorry. Seems misleadingly written
<tgardner> ogra, the exploits are highly unlikely to be available on a buildd.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<bjf> Incoming Bugs
<bjf> 171 Maverick Bugs (up 112)
<bjf> 1099 Lucid Bugs (up 50)
<bjf> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<bjf> ==== regression-potential ====
<bjf>   * 96 maverick bugs (up 61)
<bjf>   * 221 lucid bugs (down 2: to be converted to regression-release)
<bjf> ==== regression-update ====
<bjf>   * 40 lucid bugs (no change)
<bjf>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<bjf>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<bjf>   * 1 hardy bug (no change)
<bjf> ==== regression-release ====
<bjf>   * 173 lucid bugs (up 13)
<bjf>   * 44 karmic bugs (down 1)
<bjf>   * 19 jaunty bugs (no change)
<bjf>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<bjf> ==== regression-proposed ====
<bjf>   * 4 lucid bugs (up 2)
<bjf>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<bjf> !*Please note the large jump in Maverick bugs.
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ogasawara> whoa, up 61 regression-potential
<tgardner> ogasawara, sounds like we're starting to get some coverage
<bjf> wonder how many rc6 will fix
<cking1> or introduce
<bjf> thanks cking1 for that reality check
<ogasawara> heh
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<bjf> I decided toward the end of last week to postpone the weekly bug day to next week. We will be reviewing
<bjf> new bugs that have been erroneously set to new after information has been provided. We will also urge
<bjf> additional commenters to open new bugs for their issues and remove duplicates as we see them. The Kernel
<bjf> Team Bug day will once again be on half a day Friday and half a day Monday. please do what you can on
<bjf> our top50 list.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> o/ o/
<bjf> go apw
<apw> just a heads up that usb-creator on lucid cannot make bootable images of maverick
<apw> see bug #608382 for a work-around
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608382 in syslinux (Ubuntu) "USB images of Maverick CDs fail to boot with -- Error: Unkown keyword in configuration file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608382
<apw> also
<apw> we mentioned last week getting the stauses reported here pushed into the whiteboards of blueprints
<apw> as a 'status:' section
<apw> ..
 * ogasawara would greatly appreciate that
<bjf> anyone else?
<bjf> going
<manjo> ..
<bjf> going
<tgardner> apw, we should point folks at the grub/ISO page for building Maverick images
<apw> ack
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:32.
<kamal> thanks bjf
<apw> wooo 30 mins
<smb> thx bjf
<zul> gday
<sommer> yo, o//
<ttx> ~o~
<smoser> ~o~
<jiboumans> o// \\o \o/
<ttx> All 3 Joses are with us
<jiboumans> i can feel the excitement
<mathiaz> o/
<hggdh> ~o~
<jjohansen> \o
<Daviey> o/
<hggdh> ~Ã´~ (swimming with a cap)
<hallyn> so hygenic
 * jiboumans waits for kirkland in the cloud
<smoser> remember when people did things not "in the cloud" ? that was so lame.
<hallyn> honestly
<jiboumans> hell, my irc runs in the cloud
<ttx> to the cloud, and beyound !
<ttx> beyond, even
<jiboumans> i even fly home in the cloud
<Daviey> My irc seems to be running in fog.
<kirkland> i/
<hggdh> heh
 * kirkland has been waiting for the coffee to brew ... it took a *really* long time ... it wasn't plugged in
<ttx> kirkland: you might want to start up the meeting.
<kirkland> doh
<kirkland> [START-MEETING]
<kirkland> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:04. The chair is kirkland.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kirkland> howdy folks, i seem to have forgotten that I'm chairing
<jiboumans> kirkland: rest assured, we're here to remind you ;)
 * kirkland grabs stuff
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jiboumans> hggdh to discuss the outcome of server-maverick-qa-workflow in ServerMeeting at some point in the future
 * jiboumans proxies while kirkland loads
 * hggdh fixes on the "some point in the future"
 * kirkland has it now
<jiboumans> hggdh: postponed until the beta cycle right?
<hggdh> jiboumans: I think this is a good idea
<kirkland> hggdh: anything more on that?
<hggdh> on qa-workflow no, pretty much up-to-date except for 3 postponed items
<kirkland> hggdh: k, thanks
<kirkland> * sommer to check on getting some cloud-init / cloud-config doc. smoser should be available to help
<kirkland> sommer: any progress?
<sommer> added a "first boot" section with information from smoser's march blog post
<kirkland> sommer: link?
<sommer> just added it this morning, so should be available on doc.u.c tomorrow
<smoser> sommer, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit also
<kirkland> #link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit
<jiboumans> cloud-init++ # totally awesome
<kirkland> [LINK]  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit
<MootBot> LINK received:   https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit
<sommer> smoser: I'll look through that... I used http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/2010/03/introducing-cloud-inits-cloud-config.html
<kirkland> sommer: cool, any action left on this to hold over for next week?
<smoser> call it done.
<kirkland> [LINK] http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/2010/03/introducing-cloud-inits-cloud-config.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/2010/03/introducing-cloud-inits-cloud-config.html
<sommer> if someone could review the section that'd be awesome
<kirkland> smoser: that's you, right?
<smoser> sure.
<kirkland> [ACTION] smoser to review https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to review https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit
<kirkland>  * SpamapS to send mail to -devel to get ruby community position on ruby gems in ubuntu
<kirkland> spamaps does not appear to be here
<smoser> well, i wrote that link. so i'm assuming its good.  sommer will provide me with where to look for his doc.
<kirkland> jiboumans: is spamaps on holiday today?
<sommer> for the record: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html
<jiboumans> kirkland: spamaps is hacking on code
<kirkland> <kirkland>  * SpamapS to send mail to -devel to get ruby community position on ruby gems in ubuntu
<jiboumans> he's probably too distracted by the shinies
<kirkland> SpamapS: welcome ;-)
<kirkland> jiboumans: lucky :-)
<SpamapS> thanks
 * SpamapS enters with a red face
<kirkland> SpamapS: email sent to -devel re: ruby gems?
 * ttx does the evil look (again)
<jiboumans> if you're late you should totally bring cookies
<kirkland> SpamapS: me and you both, kid ;-)  (/me was discombobulated today too)
<SpamapS> I did not, because we didn't come to a consensus on the position to take, and are trying to be delicate.
<kirkland> SpamapS: okay .... anything blocking that discussion?
 * SpamapS Set-Cookie: happy-ubuntu-server-team=1
<jiboumans> spamaps: any chance we will get to consensus, or is this blocking going forward?
<kirkland> SpamapS: and who needs to be in that quorum to achieve a consensus?
<ScottK> For Ruby Gems, it would be important to talk to the Debian Ruby maintainers too.
<SpamapS> I'm not sure where we are in the discussion, nothing is blocking it but the whole thing is still just an uncertain mess IMO
<jiboumans> spamaps: so what's the next step?
<mathiaz> ScottK: agreed - if we can start the conversation with a  concrete proposal it would be helpful
<kirkland> SpamapS: okay -- what consensus do we need to send an email?
<mathiaz> I think we should come up with a proposal
<SpamapS> mathiaz: we had discussed approaching some people who believe there is an FHS solution that makes everyone happy.. right?
<mathiaz> SpamapS: yeah - that's one option
<mathiaz> I'd start by stating (again) the problem
<ScottK> I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of what happened last time.
<SpamapS> I believe the next step is proposing a solution that meets the FHS standards and leaves binaries in users' default path
<mathiaz> SpamapS: yes
<SpamapS> To the debian rubygems maintainers.. and upon rejection, consider carrying a delta in universe.
<SpamapS> err
<SpamapS> that sounds wrong
<SpamapS> IF it is rejected
<ScottK> SpamapS: Only if we feel the rejection is unsound.
<SpamapS> so next action is to draft a proposal.
<ScottK> Last time they rejected something I think they had very good reasons.
<SpamapS> The reasons, years ago now, were technically sound, but practically a disaster for rubygems users.
<kirkland> okay, so I think we carry over this item to next week
<ScottK> The approach was also not handled very collaboratively when it was being developed.
<SpamapS> Right, so we want to make a proposal, and get the discussion started.
<SpamapS> And get to a decision soon, as users are hurting.
<kirkland> [ACTION] SpamapS to work with mathiaz on a proposal, and send proposal to -devel on ruby gems in ubuntu
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS to work with mathiaz on a proposal, and send proposal to -devel on ruby gems in ubuntu
<kirkland> okay, that's all from last week's action items
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<jiboumans> o/
<kirkland> jiboumans: howdy
<jiboumans> we're somewhat behind the curve on Alpha3
<jiboumans> we knew this going in as we had quite a few extra requests for this cycle
<jiboumans> we've been postponing what's reasonable to the Betas and dropping what simply can't be accomodated
<jiboumans> only Low priority specs have been affected so far
<ttx> Remember: 2 weeks left, 1 week for package updates, 1 week for non-package work
<kirkland> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ttx> so concentrate your package work on this week !
<jiboumans> on the upside, we have a few days after Alpha3 but before Feature Freeze so we hope to minimize the culling
<jiboumans> .. and what ttx said ;)
<jiboumans> at this point, all Low and some work items from Medium specs are at risk
<SpamapS> jiboumans: one correction, the monitoring framework was not low priority, but was dropped more to support the UEC monitoring effort than to free up capacity.
<jiboumans> SpamapS: good point
<jiboumans> during last weeks sprint in Prague we also hashed out the best way to support monitoring & graphing with UEC as the use case
<ttx> I'd like to bring attention to the alpha3-milestoned bugs on the team plate:
<kirkland> okay, milestoned bugs?
<jiboumans> so that spec got re-vamped based on that
<jiboumans> ttx, floors all yours
<ttx> Bug 591006 - [MIR] haproxy (clint-fewbar)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591006 in haproxy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] haproxy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591006
<ttx> Bug 600174 - axis2c fails to build from source in maverick (kirkland)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600174 in axis2c (Ubuntu Maverick) "axis2c fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600174
<ttx> Bug 600984 - redhat-cluster-suite fails to build from source in maverick (RoAkSoAx)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600984 in redhat-cluster (Ubuntu Maverick) "redhat-cluster-suite fails to build from source in maverick" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600984
<ttx> Bug 600220 - libnet-dns-perl fails to build from source in maverick (ttx)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600220 in libnet-dns-perl (Ubuntu Maverick) "libnet-dns-perl fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600220
<ttx> Bug 600378 - [needs-packaging] python-libgearman (SpamapS ?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600378 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] python-libgearman" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600378
<ttx> Bug 607730 - [needs-packaging] ceph (SpamapS ?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607730 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ceph" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607730
<zul> ill look at the ftbfs
<ttx> SpamapS: any reason why those two are targeted to alpha3 ?
<ttx> zul: they are already assigned
<SpamapS> ttx: because they're attached to Alpha3 work items.
<zul> ok then
<ttx> SpamapS: still ontrack ?
<ttx> I'll nominate them for Maverick then
<ttx> Bug 605001 - add grub-legacy-ec2 to uec seed (smoser ?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605001 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "add grub-legacy-ec2 to uec seed" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605001
<SpamapS> ttx: all await sponsorship.
<smoser> i think mathiaz was going to do that fo rme.
<smoser> for me even
<ttx> Anyone expecting trouble on those bugs ?
 * Daviey nominates 609992, not that we can do much.
<SpamapS> ttx: the gearman package, I'd like to get sponsored into debian. Ceph is actually awaiting an upstream release but will need sponsorship as wel, and the HAproxy MIR was approved but the seed change is pending merge review.
<ttx> Daviey: please do not nominate to alpha3 bugs that we cannot do anything about :)
<ttx> bug 609992
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609992 in Ubuntu "[MIR] libcrypt-openssl-x509-perl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609992
<ttx> Daviey: ack
<Daviey> ttx, Well i guess my WI for that could be "chase it"
<kirkland> ttx: okay; anything else?
<ttx> kirkland: done
 * hggdh wishes to nominate one... bug 610265
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610265 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "apparmor: cannot successfully start an Eucalyptus KVM instance" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610265
<ttx> hggdh: I'll look into it
<hggdh> Eucalyptus 2.0 has landed ;-)
<kirkland> hggdh: i agree -- it would be nice to get that fixed by alpha3 ISO testing
<Daviey> (\o/)
 * kirkland high fives davidm 
<ttx> or Daviey
 * kirkland high fives Daviey, too!
<Daviey> yeah, nice work davidm ! :)
<kirkland> okay ....
 * mathiaz hugs the whole uec team
<jjohansen> hggdh: the fix for 610265 is queued it should hit the kernel today
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jiboumans> awesome work on getting 2.0 landed
<hggdh> jjohansen: great, thank you
<kirkland> any question for hggdh ?
<jiboumans> hggdh: more a workload question
<hggdh> I have some news on euca 2.0
<SpamapS> hggdh: are you involved with the security team's unit testing framework that they use for regression testing?
<jiboumans> you're tasked pretty heavily for Alpha3.. we moved some qa-workflow to beta
<jiboumans> do you reckon it's managable now?
<hggdh> SpamapS: yes, I am
<hggdh> jiboumans: I think it is. The most critical piece is the euca testing
<jiboumans> hggdh: agreed, and i want to make sure you have the time needed for that
<SpamapS> hggdh: I'd like to suggest we have a papercuts like push to add more tests to that .. meant to bring it up with you in Prague. Keep it in mind... I'm thinking UDS session.
<jiboumans> so let me know if we need to find room elsewhere
<hggdh> jiboumans: OK. Right now I started playing with Euca 2.0, and already have 4 new bugs to hug
<Daviey> hggdh, you rock.
<hggdh> SpamapS: we can chat later on that
<kirkland> hggdh: cool -- test rig running Euca2.0 ?
<hggdh> of the 4, one is already known here, one causes instance failure to start (~10% cases), one deal with inconsistent output
<hggdh> kirkland: yes, images from yestrday
<hggdh> bug 610479
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610479 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "Instance fails to start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610479
<kirkland> hggdh: cool
<hggdh> and bug 610259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610259 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "inconsistent output euca_conf and euca-describe-availability-zones" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610259
<kirkland> okay, hggdh anything else for us?
<hggdh> these are not critical, but I think we should get them fixed before beta
<kirkland> any other questions for hggdh ?
<hggdh> kirkland: I am done
<Daviey> The test rig has also popped firewall access through to ppa.launchpad.net, making experimental packages MUCH easier..
<kirkland> hggdh: great, thanks;  Daviey -- you're tracking eucalyptus bugs, and will work on these as part of your normal euca-maintenance work, right?
 * hggdh hugs Daviey
<Daviey> kirkland, that is indeed true!
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<kirkland> jjohansen: howdy
<jjohansen> hi
<jjohansen> so I have a pv-ops kernel that I have just started trying to test, but I believe will work
<zul> yay!
<jjohansen> it is currently only setup to work with ebs
<jiboumans> jjohansen++ # awesome
<kirkland> there are 3 bugs in the meeting agenda ...
<jjohansen> if my testing pans out I will issue a call for testing with instructions later today
<kirkland> Bug 597387: Maverick EC2 kernel issue
<kirkland> Bug 599450: getattr/apparmor breaks several packages
<kirkland> Bug 574910: High load averages on EC2 with Lucid while idling
<kirkland> atop kernel patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597387 in Ubuntu Maverick "pv-ops kernel only works in 3 or 4 zones in EC2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<jjohansen> getattr/apparmor breaks - fix is queued and should be pulled into the kernel today
<hallyn> woot
<jjohansen> there has been some delay as there has been testing of the new tool chain
<ttx> the pvops kernel should fix bug 597387 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597387 in Ubuntu Maverick "pv-ops kernel only works in 3 or 4 zones in EC2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597387
<jjohansen> correct, I hope the kernel I am just starting to test fixes pvops
<ttx> smoser told me bug 574910 might be an illusion ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<ttx> just an illusion... illusion...
<smoser> its up in the air. but jjohansen knows more.
<jjohansen> as for High load averages on Lucid while, I have just kicked off a build of new kernel with a small config change that might help
<smoser> that is becoming a metabug
<jjohansen> ttx: hrmm, the more I look not just an illusion
<smoser> for "me too" like posts of "i have high load on lucid"
<jjohansen> though, some of it is
<ttx> jjohansen: ok
<SpamapS> jjohansen: no fair just replacing /proc/uptime with 'printf("%d %d", rand(9999999),rand(123456789));'
<jjohansen> hehe, that might work :)
<ttx> I think we reached a conclusion on the atop patchset, and that was -1 ?
 * jiboumans sniffs
<jiboumans> i really want the per process bandwidth monitoring
<jjohansen> hrmm, an impass
<smoser> s/uptime/loadavg/
<ttx> jiboumans: write a KSLM module for it and submit for mainline ?
<jiboumans> jjohansen: i'm equally weary though of carrying a patch that's not likely to be supported
<jiboumans> ttx: in my copious free time
<jjohansen> the kernel team is very relucant to take atop, and sees no reason to at this time
<hallyn> jiboumans: we'll be attending the kslm talk at linuxcon...  maybe that'll lead to something
<jiboumans> hallyn: mm, good
<jiboumans> jjohansen: perhaps we should change the conversation and ask if there's a way this information could be gathered without such an objectionable patch
<kirkland> okay ...
<jiboumans> jjohansen: not something for now, but perhaps for next UDS
<kirkland> anything else kernel-related?
<jjohansen> the networking portion should be mostly available with iftop
<jiboumans> i'm happy to table this for maverick
<SpamapS> Yes, thats probably the next TODO.. make sure atop authors and KSLM authors understand eachother.
<kirkland> thanks jjohansen
<jjohansen> sounds good
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<kirkland> sommer: howdy!
<sommer> also got the uec section updated from the wiki docs... should be in http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html tomorrow
<sommer> all feedback greatly appreciated :-)
<sommer> that's all for this week I think
<jiboumans> sommer: saw you did a nice clean up too
<ttx> kirkland: someone in UECland could review that ?
<jiboumans> thanks for that
<sommer> oh ya, no problem
<kirkland> jiboumans: sure ...
<kirkland> Daviey: can you do that?
<Daviey> Hmm.. Not until EoW.
<kirkland> Daviey: sure ... by next meeting?
<Daviey> Action me!
<kirkland> [ACTION] Daviey to review http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to review http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html
<kirkland> I suppose I can do it too
<kirkland> [ACTION] kirkland to review http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to review http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html
<Daviey> 2 eyes > 1
<kim0> 4 eyes you mean
<Daviey> kim0, Well spotted.
<kirkland> :-)
<kim0> hehe
<kirkland> sommer: anything else?
 * mathiaz Daviey EoW -> End of *World*?
<hallyn> yeah, i've got that scheduled for thursday.
<sommer> kirkland: think that's it... I'll try to have more updates for next week
<SpamapS> Crap thats like 2 years away, I can't wait that long
<kirkland> mathiaz: End of the Wig;  Daviey is about to stop wearing a wig
<Daviey> dammit.
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review (zul)
<SpamapS> Wigs? I thought Daviey was Labour for sure.
<zul> well lets see 10.04.1 is around the corner and would appreciate an pending SRUs
<ttx> I saw that bug 609290 was already nominated, so I didn't reply to the thread.
<zul> also help iso testing for 10.04.1 would be nifty to
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609290 in apache2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "overlapping memcpy in ssl_io_input_read" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609290
<jiboumans> +1 on what ttx said
<ttx> 10.04.1 -> August 12th
<zul> ttx: yeah its supposedly fixed in 2.2.16 but I havent had time to fixe it yet
<zul> since 2.2.16 got uploaded about an hour ago ;)
<ttx> zul++
<ttx> the SRUTracker is a bit empty
<zul> but yeah ill look at it and we can probably get it in post 10.04.1
<zul> ttx: bug that I have to fix in the SRU tracker...launchpad is sending it bad data
<ttx> bad LP.
<zul> + plus enhancements to it
<mathiaz> zul: could you use Production instead of edge?
<ttx> SRUs are kinda frozen in preparation for 10.04.1 anyway
<zul> mathiaz: probably
<zul> mathiaz: ill take a look at it tonight
<ttx> we cleared the ones for 10.04.1 in meetign last week.
<ttx> the last one in is mathiaz's openldap
<zul> the infinite loop in mysql is one of them as well
<ttx> which will need some testing
<mathiaz> ttx: sitting in -proposed
<ttx> zul: anything else ?
<zul> ttx: not from me
<zul> ttx: just one more thing since you are going to be on holiday you are going to have to show me what needs to be done for 10.04.1 coordination
<kirkland> cool
<ttx> I'm not in holiday that week.
<zul> i thought you were?
<zul> ok never mind then :)
<ttx> I'm in holiday on week 16 of the schedule
<ttx> The date moved quite a bit
<kirkland> okay, moving along ;-)
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Server papercuts status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server papercuts status (ttx)
<ttx> See status at: https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-3
<ttx> Not in very good shape
<ttx> Please take the time of fixing your assigned papercut(s) by the end of the week
<kirkland> ttx: ack
<ttx> if it takes too much time, it's not really a papercut.
<kirkland> [ACTION] entire team to fix your papercuts by end-of-the-week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  entire team to fix your papercuts by end-of-the-week
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Daily triage backlog (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Daily triage backlog (ttx)
<ttx> Quick announcement here as well...
<ttx> For some mysterious reason we collectively sucked at triaging last week
 * hallyn is guilty
<ttx> so there is a backlog to clear, please try to take your share
<jiboumans> .oO( czech beer )
<ttx> so that we can be back to normal soon
<ttx> http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-server-triage
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-server-triage
<kirkland> good idea, ttx
<ttx> at 23 rigth now
<SpamapS> Seems like the rate of bugs was high too.
<ttx> link shows normal / vs. bad week :)
<ttx> we get ~ 6 bugs per day looking at the graph
<mathiaz> ttx: *18* now
<zul> it was at 28 on monday
<ttx> kirkland: that's all :)
<jiboumans> while we're on it, anyone with moin clue know how to embed an iframe?
<SpamapS> it was at 24 on Saturday and I did a few..
<kirkland> ttx: okay, we should all pitch in
<jiboumans> google's not been helpful on that front =/
<Daviey> i frame!?
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<kirkland> jiboumans: now you can ask your iframe question :-)
<jiboumans> (imagine it's part of the open discussion)
<kim0> I have a quick announcement
<jiboumans> krikland: i blame latency
<Daviey> everyone welcome kim0 o/
<ttx> kim0: you like clouds ?
<kirkland> kim0: welcome, btw
<kim0> ttx: I do :)
<jiboumans> o/ kim0
<kim0> Here I go
<kim0> Since kirkland had pinged me in the sprint, mentioning that for a server release the first point release is the major one, wanting us to beat some drums around the 10.04.1 release.
<Daviey> GO
<kim0> Here's what I've done. We're launching an initiative called "Ubuntu Server marks your city" till we find a cooler name.
<kim0> Basically, I've written a little django app that displays a world map. We'll be pushing the Ubuntu-Server users to hit that webapp, and for every user hitting, we'll display the Ubuntu logo over his city. Meaning this city has been blessed by Ubuntu server
<kim0> The target being, by release day (mostly 15 days) we will have covered all world's major cities (hopefully:)
<kim0> I'm should be deploying the app tomorrow over ec2
<jiboumans> kim0: your job is cool
<kim0> EoA
<kim0> jiboumans: tell me about it :)
<kirkland> kim0: neat :-)
<SpamapS> kim0: brilliant!
<Daviey> kim0, Rocking!  Is the source avaliable?
<kim0> Daviey: YES
<jiboumans> kim0: can you let us know the URL so we can tweet/dent/fb/blog the hell out of it?
<mathiaz> IIRC we also mentioned we should update the server team meeting agenda to include a section with the community team
<kim0> bzr branch lp:mapuntu
<Daviey> kim0, thanks!
<SpamapS> mathiaz: ++
<kirkland> kim0: that's too cool
<kim0> jiboumans: will announce tomorrow in this list
<jiboumans> kim0: congratulations, you get your own section in the meeting going forward
<kim0> I wanted to add a feature
<jiboumans> well done!
<SpamapS> oh sorry ubuntu is all about python..    +=1
<RoAkSoAx> I also have updates in the HA team: We are back on track working on cluster related stuff. We are targeting to have the cluster in Main for this cycle
<jiboumans> spamaps++ # hah
<kim0> a div with tweets with ubuntu server scrolling by
<kim0> if anyone with enough javascript karma wants to hack on that
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, \o/
<kim0> be my guest
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: saw the alpha3-milestoned bug assigned to you ?
 * ScottK has an issue to discuss.
<ttx> redhat-cluster-suite FTBFS
<RoAkSoAx> ttx: redhat cluster?
<ttx> yep
<kirkland> ScottK: please
<ScottK> I've been working on the server piece of the Kolab spec.
<RoAkSoAx> ttx: yep. I'll request sync, but will FTBFS again till all the other cluster packages are in main (pacemaker, cluster-glue, etc)
<ScottK> It turns out that in order to get away from a code copy, Kolab needs a couple of php5 patches.
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: will they all be in by alpha3 ?
<ScottK> They look ~safe to me as they just add functions and don't change any existing functions, but I'm not the right person to review this.
<SpamapS> ScottK: we're going to need some scaffolding to hold up our pile of php5 patches. :)
<ScottK> Who would be the best person to review?
<zul> ScottK: SpamapS ;)
 * jiboumans watches zul throw his buddy under the bus
 * SpamapS agrees
<RoAkSoAx> ttx: I surely hope so. I'm about to start updating the MIRs, and it will just be a matter of time
<zul> jiboumans: i only do the packaging ;)
<mathiaz> SpamapS: are there a lot of ubuntu specific patches?
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: ok, cool
<ScottK> kirkland: Can we have an action for SpamapS and I to reivew Kolab php5 patches and we'll handle it offline.
<zul> mathiaz: not for 5.3.3
<SpamapS> yeah, zul deals with PHP drudgery.. I'm the weirdo who actually kind of likes php. ;)
<mathiaz> SpamapS: otherwise I'd recommend to talk to the Debian maintainer
<ScottK> (or whoever is running the meeting, I lost track)
<kirkland> [ACTION] SpamapS and ScottK to reivew Kolab php5 patches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS and ScottK to reivew Kolab php5 patches
<ScottK> kirkland: Thanks.
<SpamapS> ScottK: whats your timezone?
<ScottK> I'm done.
<kirkland> okay
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<kirkland> Tuesday 2010-08-03 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<kirkland> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:03.
<ScottK> SpamapS: -0400
<Daviey> \o/
<jiboumans> thanks all
<jiboumans> nice chairing kirkland; an hour exact!
 * Daviey has pitty for the poor scribe of that meeting!
<kirkland> jiboumans: ;-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-28
<karim__> how do themes get that small icon of the program in the window border
<dholbach> karim__: try #ubuntu-desktop - this channel is just for meetings
<karim__> hey is the meeting in silence
<dholbach> karim__: there's no meeting right now, at all other times it is silence in here, yes
<dholbach> karim__: check the topic
 * mvo looks around
 * psurbhi1 waves
<doko> hi
<barry> hi
<barry> are we meeting today?
<mvo> hi
<robbiew> who's chairing
<robbiew> hmm.../me looks at last agenda
<robbiew> I suspect it was ev
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0623#Chair for next meeting
<robbiew> hey ev ;)
<robbiew> perfect timing
<ev> damn IRC bouncers
<ev> right, I'm running this thing, aren't I?
<doko> well, "running" would imply some speed ...
<ev> lol
<ev> right
<ev> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:09. The chair is ev.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ev> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
<ev> order: Keybuk, mvo, csurbhi, barry, ev, doko, cjwatson
<ev> given that Scott's bouncer is on the same box, I'm assuming he's offline for the same reason
<ev> mvo: you're up
<mvo> sprint: s-c whats-new/buy-something, mago/ldtp into with ara, metadata in PPAs, design team feedback on specs/usertesting/s-c, unity&oneconf integration in sc, ubuntuone collaboration (login)
<mvo> (done)
<psurbhi> * worked on #601877 and 601874. The fix to both of them is the same really. Have uploaded a ppa and shall ask the user to see if the fix works for them. I cannot reproduce the bug, so cannot test it.
<psurbhi> * looked around for bugs in e2fsprogs.
<psurbhi> * configuring qemu environment for testing.
<psurbhi> * need to test mdadm and send a request for upload.
<psurbhi> done
 * mvo is happy that he actually took notes this time during the sprint :)
<ev> barry: ping
<barry> catching up on email threads; babysitting py27 ppas; reviewing/discussing/fixing ftbfs on debian-python; pep 3149 (versioned .so) shepherding; upgraded main box to maverick (only failure: known libvirt security breakage).  done.
<ev> Fixing bugs in the installer design, trying to get a working version of greyable bin, working on a take a photo page, and trying to package sphinxsearch's python api.  Verifying a ubuntu netbook USB disk for the shop.  Just had a call with Andrew S. on the installing non-free software during install stuff.  Moving forward there, I let him know that I'll be on vacation so the deadline is well before FF.
<ev> General "oh my god, feature freeze in a few days, panic" stuff
<ev> (done)
<doko> another set of openjdk-6 security updates, lucid sru's for eglibc. gcj-4.4, some linaro work, and openjdk & eglibc bug triage
<doko> done
<robbiew> cjwatson is on holiday
<ev> oh, well then
<ev> no actions from last meeting
<ev> [TOPIC] alpha 3
<MootBot> New Topic:  alpha 3
<ev> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27561
<ev> I see a few that are ours
<ev> anyone need help getting things ready for alpha 3 or have time to help with alpha 3 tasks?
<robbiew> ...and are we up-to-date on our work item status?
<ev> somewhat ;)
<barry> mostly
<ev> I need to update mine to reflect last week
<robbiew> says the two with the most items ;)
<ev> *ducks*
<ev> [TOPIC] sponsorship queue!
<MootBot> New Topic:  sponsorship queue!
<barry> *runs*
<ev> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<ev> ^ you know the drill
<ev> [TOPIC] Business from activity reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Business from activity reports
<ev> anyone have anything they'd like to raise?
<barry> doko: we need to talk about the timeline for py27 decision.  we can take that offline after meeting
<ev> right
<ev> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<ev> I'm assuming not, given the above
<doko> barry: sure, but we have to wait for alpha3 anyway
<robbiew> I think HR expects objectives in by this Friday....but I don't ;)
<ev> lol
<ScottK> barry: I'd like to be involved in that discussion.
<barry> doko: right.  i'm just worried about vacations getting in the way ;)
<ev> [TOPIC] good news?
<MootBot> New Topic:  good news?
<robbiew> I'll write up some guidelines and get those out by next week...I think by end of August is more reasonable ;)
<barry> ScottK, doko: +1.  after this meeting?
<ScottK> Sure.
<barry> robbiew: +1
<ScottK> Good news is the linaro toolchain stuff landing means qt4-x11 built on armel.  Thanks.
<robbiew> ScottK: you have no idea the drama that the linaro toolchain caused last week...lol
<doko> ScottK: bad news is that kde4libs now fails =)
<ScottK> doko: Riddell has a fix.
<ScottK> We just need to get some installability stuff worked out now.
<ScottK> Progress.
<ev> [TOPIC] next chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  next chair
<ev> who?
<barry> shuffle says keybuk :)
<ev> sold
<ev> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:26.
<ev> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<mvo> short and sweet
<barry> thanks!  doko, ScottK here or new channel?
 * ScottK is flexible.
<barry> here is fine with me
<barry> so, i've been working my way through jwilk's follow up on debian-python.  i think the only thing painful about 2.7 so far is numpy, but we're beholden to debian on that one i think
<ScottK> So it's going to be magically easy?
<barry> so while we have a few failures, i don't think there's anything yet identified to stop us from enabling 2.7
<barry> ScottK: not magically.  jwilk identified two packages that need fixing, but that should be fairly easy
<ScottK> OK.
<barry> i have three ftbfs to investigate, but unlikely py27 failures
<barry> numpy is the biggest concern, but i think we should not let that stop us
<ScottK> My biggest concern is that there isn't a lot of community support available to fix Universe stuff.
<ScottK> If you are going to do this, it has to be with an eye towards the whole enchilada.
<barry> ScottK: this is true, however the question is whether it's better to try to fix those *before* we enable (remember: not default) py27, or whether we enable it for mav with the understanding that there may be failures in uni we don't know about
<barry> ScottK, doko you guys lived through the 2.6 transition, and have a better feel for the problems.  what do you think?
<ScottK> You rebuilt everything in py27, right?
<doko> the whole enchilada would be the robust python packaging included
<barry> ScottK: everything that was build-dep on python-all python-all-dev
<barry> in main tho
<ScottK> You didn't rebuild Universe?
<barry> doko: that's py3.2, which isn't ready upstream yet
<doko> barry: as long as you don't change the default, you can always fall back not building for 2.7
<barry> ScottK: no, but that's next
<ScottK> barry: I think Universe should be rebuilt before a final decision is taken.
<barry> ScottK: cool, i'll start scripting that today
<doko> ScottK: I disagree, we even didn't rebuild main just for adding 2.7
<ScottK> doko: barry did rebuild Main.
<barry> well, you mean build-deps, right?
<doko> build-deps on python-all*
<ScottK> Right.  Not all of it, just the Python using bits.
<barry> doko: yep
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> That's all I'm talking about is Universe packages that build-dep on python-all*
<doko> barry: I thought you did do this for universe already?
<barry> doko: main
<barry> i will set up a ppa for uni today
<barry> doko, ScottK main thing for me is agreeing on a timeline for making the decision, given alpha3, feature freeze and vacations coming up
<ScottK> I think the gating function on the timeline is the Universe rebuild.
<ScottK> Other than that, the sooner the better.
<barry> alpha3 is 5-aug.  ff is 12-aug.  beta is 2-sep.  do we need to do this before ff or before beta?
<ScottK> Before FF.
<ScottK> We should start 6-aug.  5 if we can.
<ScottK> (where "do" means add it as a supported version and start work on rebuilds)
<ScottK> doko: It would probably be good to provide the same thing in Debian Experimental.  We might get some benefit from testing there.
<barry> ScottK: +1
<barry> ScottK, doko: pvt email sent
<barry> okay, i have what i think i need.  thanks guys
<doko> I'm away now
<barry> np.  ttyl
<renglaji> Is there supposed to be an Edubuntu meeting in here now?
<renglaji> No Edubuntu meeting?
<pleia2> renglaji: looks like that's not for another couple of hours
<pleia2> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 28 2010, 17:46:26
<renglaji> You're right, sorry had my time conversion off. Thanks
<renglaji> Will there be an Edubuntu meeting here?
<nhandler> renglaji: It is listed on the Fridge, but the agenda (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda) doesn't appear to have been updated, so I'm not sure
<renglaji> I saw that as well. Thanks for the info.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-29
<huats> morning
<Prabhash> I applied for Ubuntu membership but Icanot attend to the meeting due I have to be in College in that time what should I do???
<czajkowski> Prabhash: which board was it ?
<czajkowski> can you go to another board as they meet at different times
<thorwil> Prabhash: i guess you should take your name off the list for that meeting, then. check if you can make it next time. you can join a meeting of another board (not your area), if the schedule fits better, afaik
<Prabhash> AsiaOceania
<Prabhash> is it essential for participate in selection Meeting
<Prabhash> ?
<jykae> How much must one have contribution to Ubuntu to be able to get a membership?
<jykae> is working in an official local community, marketing and updating www,wikipages enough
<jykae> and being chairman, of course
<wers> ayatana UX meeting?
<thorwil> Prabhash: it is essential to show up in a membership board meating, as you will be asked a few questions. nothing dramatic with a little preparation
<thorwil> jykae: there's a thumb rule of at least 6 month sustained effort (and plans for the future)
<thorwil> hi wers! doesn't look so
<wers> thorwil, wait.is it just me or is our meeting supposed to be now?
<thorwil> wers: vish is here just because he's everywhere, i think. but no mpt or ivanka or aday ...
<wers> thorwil, ooh. so my watch isn't wrong... okay
<thorwil> wers: since 20 minutes. but this is no surprise, given the past and now guadec, right? ;)
<wers> thorwil, ooh. right. forgot about it. anyway, brb
<vish> oh today is thursday..!
<thorwil> lol
 * vish wonders why wers cross-posts every thread to ayatana and usability ML ...
<thorwil> vish: i guess he thinks it's relevant to both and he doesn't mind a wider audience? :)
<vish> wider audience is great , but its every thread he starts ;p
<vish> wers: upstream is really not interested in "windicators" yet..
<vish> wers: csd maybe , but not yet sold on windicators
<chrisccoulson> vish - oh, you're talking about the user who cross-posted the thread titled "The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More"?
<wers> vish, hello. i cross-posted because the platform consistency is a gnome issue and windicators is for ayatana
<wers> vish, sorry I was afk
<vish> chrisccoulson: yup.. :)
<wers> and I only cross-post if I think the issue is relevant to both MLs :)
<wers> if I'm not mistaken, this is just the third time, and my latest post is just a repost of the 2nd one (which many seemed to find to hard to read)
<chrisccoulson> i was going to respond to the message. firefox is almost certainly not going to get the visual updates on linux that windows users are getting, which sucks
<wers> chrisccoulson, it will if it's technically possible but those will be optional
<wers> we'll see what GTK+ 3 has to offer
<vish> wers: chrisccoulson looks after firefox for Ubuntu :)
<wers> vish, yep
<chrisccoulson> wers - the response from mike beltzner would suggest that FF4.0 will not be getting the menu button in the titlebar on linux:
<chrisccoulson> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.apps.firefox/browse_thread/thread/5a77e3e5e58deb52#
<chrisccoulson> "Presently, I do not believe that we'll be able to bring the Firefox Button to Linux, so it will continue to have a menuBar by default, like Windows XP. OSX will continue to use a menuBar as well. "
<wers> chrisccoulson, yep. presently. we'll have to wait for GTK+ 3 stuff
<chrisccoulson> why? GTK+3 doesn't offer anything that would help that
<chrisccoulson> it's basically GTK+2 with a new name and 1 new class ;)
<wers> chrisccoulson, GTK+ guys are working on client side window buttons
<vish> good that they atleast postponed gnome 3.0 , there still might be time to get some new ideas.
<vish> wers: you mean bratsche?
<wers> vish, I think
<vish> chrisccoulson: one positive side maybe that a few of the design folks are interested in the menubutton idea , and some of the menu changes FF4/chrome are doing, and postponing might give a chance for a lot of UI changes
<vish> postponing gnome 3..
 * czajkowski hugs robbiew :D
<robbiew> heh....I wanted to get this out weeks ago...but we were waiting on contracts to be signed
<czajkowski> robbiew: Thanks :)
<czajkowski> llast time I was there I was a kid, I'm still a kid mind you :)
<robbiew> lol
<czajkowski> robbiew: mind if I Rt using #tags
<czajkowski> spread zee word so folks can make plans and book holiday time
<robbiew> czajkowski: retweet away!
<czajkowski> sweet, now off to Ubuntu hour witha  big grin on my face
<czajkowski> have fun
<stas_> hey, anybody from council around?
<stas_> i wanted to ask if its ok to put #ubuntu-ro on the agenda for 3rd august for reaproval
<stas_> since we missed previous approval
<Seveas> czajkowski, ^
<stas_> thanks Seveas
<czajkowski> stas_: hey yup it is
<czajkowski> great
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<stas_> ok, ill update the wiki and email the team
<czajkowski> please just add it to there
<stas_> thanks
<czajkowski> stas_: no problem, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-30
<huats> morning
<drubin> Morning huats
<huats> morning drubin
<drubin> mmm /me thought this was #ubuntu-locoteams
<drubin> it was the same peopel
<drubin> *people
<rickspencer3> hi all
<ScottK> Hello rickspencer3.
 * rickspencer3 tap tap tap
<rickspencer3> is this thing on?
<rickspencer3> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is rickspencer3.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> o/
<marjo> rickspencer3: it's on
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC}
<MootBot> New Topic: [TOPIC}
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Milestoned Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned Bugs
<rickspencer3> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone=27561
<rickspencer3> never mind, let's just go through the team topics
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] QA
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA
<marjo> # Hardware testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Laptops:
<marjo>     passed:  57 (90%)    failed:   0 ( 0%)    untested: 6 (10%)
<marjo> Servers:
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo>     passed:  58 (87%)    failed:   0 ( 0%)    untested: 9 (13%)
<marjo> Netbooks:
<marjo>     passed:   1 (100%)   failed:   0 ( 0%)    untested: 0 ( 0%)
<marjo> Desktops:
<marjo>     passed:  10 (71%)    failed:   0 ( 0%)    untested: 4 (29%)
<marjo> The 'Netbooks' category is a new distinction in the test environment. Previously, netbooks were categorized as laptops.  We ran one netbook through as a test (which was successful) and we will be reclassifying
<marjo> the others from 'laptop' to 'netbook' next week.
<marjo> rickspencer3: new report this week is:
<marjo> Boot Performance Week of 23/7/2010-30/7/2010
<marjo> --------------------------------------------
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/daily-bootcharts/averages.html
<marjo> Total number of systems with regressions: 16 out of 71 total
<marjo> The chart checks the number of systems which had boot time regressions over a one week time period.  The boot time is broken into categories of Boot Time, Kernel Plumbing, X.org, Desktop, and Kernel Init.  An addition of more than one second to any one of the categories is considered a regression. This database is still new and it will take some time for the data to normalize.  Therefore, 1 second was picked as a start
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/daily-bootcharts/averages.html
<marjo> ing point.
<marjo> rickspencer3: will be sending system details to robbiew's team for root cause analysis
<rickspencer3> ouch
<rickspencer3> looks like desktop team has some work to do
<rickspencer3> looks like a pretty serious regression
<rickspencer3> anything else marjo?
<marjo> rickspencer3: we will start with foundations team and they will forward as necessary
<marjo> Spec Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-maverick-alpha-3.html
<marjo> qa-maverick-mago-i18n - 100% complete
<marjo> qa-maverick-improve-iso-tracker - 100% complete
<marjo> server-maverick-qa-workflow - good progress, on schedule.
<marjo> qa-maverick-automated-server-testing - good progress, cpio and built-binaries successfully run in Checkbox test framework
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-maverick-alpha-3.html
<marjo> rickspencer3: that's it from QA team
<rickspencer3> thanks marjo
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Security
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security
<marjo> thx!
<rickspencer3> kees?
<ScottK> marjo: Would it be possible to add a Kubuntu desktop to the bootcharts?
<rickspencer3> anyone here for security?
<rickspencer3> jdstrand?
<ScottK> They're usual report is "Doing fine, most of our work is post release".
<ScottK> They're/their
<rickspencer3> fair enough
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel
<ogasawara> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the item(s) called out in the agenda.  Our burndown chart for Alpha3 is at the third URL, and our overall burndown chart is at the fourth:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> On the specs noted in the agenda, status is as follows:
<marjo> scottk: will investigate; thx
<ogasawara> * kernel-maverick-apparmor: kudos to jjohansen as his recent upstream submission for apparmor was just accepted to the security-testing-2.6#next tree and should make the 2.6.36 merge window. \o/.
<ScottK> marjo: Great.  Please let me know if you need anything.
<ogasawara> * kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel: jjohansen has submitted patches to enable the -virtual kernel as a pv-ops kernel on EC2.  This does not include the pv-on-HVM drivers which are required for Amazon's Compute Cloud.  pv-on-HVM needs a little more time for evaluation so we've re-targeted that item to beta.  All other items are now complete.
<ogasawara> On the bugs noted in the agenda, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> Bug 591941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591941 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "SDHC card not recognized" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591941
<ogasawara> mpoirier continues to work this issue with TI.  There is still no resolution.  We have re-targeted the milestone to maverick-beta.
<ogasawara> Bug 595489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595489 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "lvm snapshot causes deadlock in 2.6.35" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595489
<ogasawara> A patch has been posted upstream but not yet accepted.  I suspect it will not make 2.6.35 final.  We'll have to evaluate carrying it as a SAUCE patch for Maverick.
<ogasawara> Bug 597387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597387 in Ubuntu Maverick "pv-ops kernel only works in 3 of 4 zones in EC2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597387
<ogasawara> Test kernels that work in all zones have been posted and should be resolved with the recently submitted patches (see spec notes above)
<ogasawara> As a general status, we've rebased to 2.6.35-rc6 and uploaded, ie linux-2.6.35-12.17.  We'll do one more upload today.  We're also hoping for 2.6.35 final to land today/tomorrow so we might do a last minute upload over the weekend.  We are above the trend line in our Alpha3 burndown chart but below the trend line overall.  The remaining Alpha3 work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<rickspencer3> none from me
<rickspencer3> moving on
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Foundations
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations
<rickspencer3> cjwatson perhaps?
<ScottK> One big item I know of is trying to take a decision next week on adding Python 2.7 as a supported (not default) Python version.
<rickspencer3> would that be doko?
<ScottK> barry and doko.
<rickspencer3> hmm, ok
<rickspencer3> nothing from foundations, let's move on
<ScottK> The goal would be to make a decision next week and if the decision is to go forward, execute right after Alpha 3.
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Server
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server
<rickspencer3> thanks ScottK
<ttx> o/
<ttx> Updated team status @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<ttx> Alpha3-milestoned bugs:
<ttx> Bug 572317  - image-store does not support images without a ramdisk (niemeyer): no time from upstream (niemeyer) to help, remilestoned to beta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572317 in image-store-proxy (Ubuntu Maverick) "image-store does not support images without a ramdisk" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572317
<ttx> Bug 591006 - [MIR] haproxy (clint-fewbar): MIR accepted, needs to be seeded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591006 in haproxy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] haproxy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591006
<ttx> Bug 600174 - axis2c fails to build from source in maverick (kirkland): work in progress, on track
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600174 in axis2c (Ubuntu Maverick) "axis2c fails to build from source in maverick" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600174
<ttx> Bug 600378 - [needs-packaging] python-libgearman (SpamapS): pending debian approval -- backup plan is to push to universe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600378 in Ubuntu Maverick "[needs-packaging] python-libgearman" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600378
<ttx> Bug 607730 - [needs-packaging] ceph (SpamapS): work in progress, should be done today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607730 in Ubuntu Maverick "[needs-packaging] ceph" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607730
<ttx> Bug 610265 - apparmor: cannot successfully start an Eucalyptus KVM instance (jdstrand): should get fixed together with bug 599450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610265 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "apparmor: cannot successfully start an Eucalyptus KVM instance" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610265
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<ttx> Bug 609992 - [MIR] libcrypt-openssl-x509-perl (MIR team): needs some MIR-team love
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609992 in libcrypt-openssl-x509-perl (Ubuntu Maverick) "[MIR] libcrypt-openssl-x509-perl" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609992
<ttx> Bug 609112 - euca_conf --discover-nodes fails to register nodes (Daviey): work in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609112 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "euca_conf --discover-nodes fails to register nodes" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609112
<ttx> Bug 608423 - mysql post-start script broken (zul): Unclear if more work is needed, will doublecheck with zul
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608423 in mysql-5.1 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[lucid-proposed] post-start script broken" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608423
<ttx> Alpha3-milestoned specs status:
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-libs (completed)
<ttx> #
<ttx> server-maverick-sru-process (completed)
<ttx> server-maverick-wbemcim-providers (completed)
<ttx> server-maverick-apport-hooks (completed): Migrated to a community effort
<ttx> server-maverick-tomcat (80%): Almost done (needs publication in Debian and sync back in Ubuntu)
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-provisioning (67%): Work can be completed next week (tooling work)
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades (58%): On track, most items should be completed today
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-monitoring (36%): Unclear status, some items will probably get postponed to beta
<ttx> server-maverick-upstart-conversion (18%): Blocked on Foundations upstart reviews, but also some targets will get dropped
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-web20-workloads (14%): Targets of opportunity, some of them will get dropped
<ttx> Other Critical/High Specs < 100% completion:
<ttx> server-maverick-ehcache-integration (89%): On track, can be completed next week (PPA work)
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-cloud-loadbalancing (82%): On track, most work items postponed to beta
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-eucalyptus-next (80%): On track, working through euca 2.0 regressions now
<ttx> server-maverick-hypervisor (75%): On track, can be completed next week (testing work)
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-gluster (67%): Only one sponsoring work item left
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-testing (40%): Some work items will be postponed to beta, others should be complete next week
<ttx> server-maverick-hadoop-pig (25%): On track, 3 remaining work items can be completed on release week
<ttx> Other Medium/Low Specs < 85% completion:
<ttx> server-maverick-papercuts (71%): On track
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-seed-review (60%): On track, some work items postponed to beta
<ttx> Spillover/postponed items:
<ttx> We globally overcommitted for alpha3, and the cloud-kernel-upgrades and monitoring-framework specs were underestimated.
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-images-sans-cloud: Postponed to beta, might be dropped from maverick
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-utils: Postponed to beta, might be dropped from maverick
<ttx> server-maverick-daily-vcs: Most work items postponed to beta
<ttx> server-maverick-monitoring-framework: Simplified and merged with server-maverick-uec-monitoring
<ttx> server-maverick-qa-workflow: Most work items postponed to beta
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-liveusb: Most work items postponed to beta
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-cloud-loadbalancing: Some items dropped, some postponed to beta
<ttx> server-maverick-puppet-bootstrap: Depends on upstream work. Most items postponed to beta, might need to be dropped
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-seed-review: Some work items postponed to beta
<ttx> Maverick Bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> Bug 563916 - [details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563916 in plymouth (Ubuntu Lucid) "[details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563916
<ttx> targeted to 10.04.1, moved to 10.04.2
<ttx> I'll target it to beta to make it appear here
<ttx> (in maverick)
<ttx> Questions ?
<rickspencer3> none from me
<rickspencer3> moving on
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Desktop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop
<rickspencer3> kenvandine?
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> no one from desktop either
 * ScottK is here for the Kubuntu report.
<rickspencer3> team of slackers there
<ttx> ...
 * ScottK goes ahead then...
<rickspencer3> desktop engineering manager is falling down on the job
<rickspencer3> ScottK, go ahead for Kubuntu
<ScottK> Finished landing app menu in the default netbook layout this week.
<ScottK> Packaging KDE 4.5.0 now with pre-release tarballs.
<ScottK> Not sure if we can land it before Alpha 3 or not.
<ScottK> Armel is looking better thanks to the Linaro toolchain work.
<ScottK> Need help from foundations/mobile on kdebindings FTBFS on armel.
<ScottK> It's the standard alignment issue, but I guess NC|Alaska is on vacation.
<ScottK> If we can get that fixed, we have a good shot at trying to build armel images the first time this cycle.
<rickspencer3> ogra can you help with the kdebidnings thing?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, hey...
<ScottK> Continuing work on our plasma mobile tech preview.  Good progress, but likely will run past FF (and I think that's OK).
<ogra> i have no clue about kde code but can help with everything else
 * kenvandine isn't prepared, didn't realize seb128 wouldn't be here
<ScottK> (it's a tech preview)
<ogra> NC|Alaska will be back on monday
<ScottK> ogra: Maybe dyfet can help.
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<ogra> dyfet, can you please ? ^^^
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, nm, folks can read the wiki, it was my fault
<dyfet> kdebindings?  I can look at that
<kenvandine> :)
<ScottK> dyfet: How about we take that to #kubuntu-devel.
<rickspencer3> thanks dyfet and ogra
<rickspencer3> thanks ScottK
<rickspencer3> moving on?
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience
<rickspencer3> davidbarth?
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: yep
<davidbarth> o/
<rickspencer3> k ... your turn
<davidbarth> so the status report is @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> highlights for the report
<davidbarth> appmenu: still not finished, main priority for the iteration to come; we still have a few elements to land that are required to provide the real experience we want
<davidbarth> gtk: progressing slowly, but nothing critical; we've made some nice enhancements this iteration; argb /not/ proved to work, though cody has been working hard on fixing issues
<davidbarth> at this very minute i'm still waiting for the latest and greatest patch, so i'd recommend putting it aside for the release unfortunately
<davidbarth> sound: all good, on track
<davidbarth> clock: minor, but nice and let's us update the UNE default panel with a proper indicator
<davidbarth> me: not finished, priority for next iteration
<davidbarth> sorry that's indicator-me, but you get the idea ;)
<davidbarth> unity: on track, tons on visual improvements and new features like apps & files places updates; and software center integration recently
<davidbarth> last
<davidbarth> indicator-network: good progresses on UI, but definetely not on track to become the UNE default; we're still discovering some embarassing bugs in connman
<davidbarth> the rest is in the report
<davidbarth> questions?
<rickspencer3> davidbarth, does "not proved to work" for rgba mean crashy, or something else?
<davidbarth> i'll put up a Alpha3ReleaseNotes docu early next week
<ScottK> davidbarth: agateau has been doing very nice work on app menu.
<davidbarth> means we think we're at the end of it, but the patch still hasn't made it into gtk as of this time
<davidbarth> we still have some flexibility up to monday, but we've agreed with seb128 that either it makes it for a3 or it won't make it for the release
<davidbarth> ScottK: yes, thanks for him; we're very happy with the cross-desktop developments this cycle again
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: to finish the story on argb, bratsche thinks the crashers are gone, including for emacs
<rickspencer3> sounds good
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: but again, that's not been widely tested
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] User Experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  User Experience
<ogra> who uses emacs anyway
<ogra> us vi
<ogra> *use
<ogra> :)
 * rickspencer3 kicks ogra
 * ogra grins
<rickspencer3> any one from Ux?
<ScottK> Apparently user experience is CLI today.
<rickspencer3> hi iainfarrell good timing
<oubiwann> rickspencer3: ivanka and iainfarrell just joined
<rickspencer3> yeah
<oubiwann> rickspencer3: we're in a call, and ivanka's getting something for you
<rickspencer3> "getting something for me"?
<rickspencer3> that sounds ominous
<oubiwann> update
<oubiwann> hehe
<rickspencer3> ah
<ivanka> rickspencer3: hello
<rickspencer3> let's move on, we can come back
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
<rickspencer3> ogra, ?
<ogra> phear my paste !
<ogra> Detailed status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Short summary:
<ogra>  * new rootstock release in preparation by rsalveti
<ogra>  * omap3/4 image build issues are being debugged and worked on (we are running out of inodes on the preinstalled images atm, fix pending)
<ogra>  * ubuntu-netbook-efl-default-settings was uploaded (sitting in NEW, MIR pending) to fix the session issues with the efl launcher
<ogra>  * ongoing work on main ftbfs
<ogra>  * mobile-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl spec was dropped (nobody had time to work on it :( )
<ogra>  * mobile-maverick-arm-improved-subarch-detection had its items sorted for beta vs feature freeze
<ogra>  * mobile-m-omap-edid-autodetection was also split into two parts for FF vs beta
<ogra>  * apparently a security kernel upgrade kills babbage boards, this was discovered during the sprint and is researched by freescale and the kernel team currently (the boards are completely bricked after the kernel update)
<ogra> ...
<ogra> A3 Status:
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogra> ...
<ogra> A3 targeted specs:
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-image-builds-without-root
<ogra> ...
<ogra> There are 5 bugs A3 targeted
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Two Blocker A3 Bugs:
<ogra> bug 605739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605739 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: Bad page state in process swapper pfn:94d23" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605739
<ogra> bug 611638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 611638 in Ubuntu Maverick "[MIR] please include ubuntu-netbook-efl-default-settings in ubuntu maverick main" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611638
<ogra> the babbage SRU issue iss very scary
<ogra> it seems a kernel upgrade can brick the HW in a hard way (doesnt boot anymore)
<rickspencer3> urk
 * ogra never thought it would be possible to break HW through SW 
<ogra> luckily the security kernel is still held back, so no harm done apart from our own boards
<rickspencer3> ogra, are you saying that our last Kernel SRU literaly broke lots of people's computers?
<rickspencer3> phew
<ogra> FSVO lots :)
 * rickspencer3 wipes sweat from brow
<ogra> i dont think there are more than 10000 babbage boiards in the world
<ogra> and i guess probably a tenth of them runs ubuntu
<ogra> but as i mentioned, kernel team and freescale are researching
<ogra> any questions ?
<rickspencer3> urk ...
<rickspencer3> moving on
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<ScottK> Hello.
<ScottK> No major excitement.  Currently worried about barry's master plan for Python 2.7 and what it will do to Universe.
<ScottK> Still generally concerned about ports archs being behind and potential for problems when universe packages get built days/weeks later on some archs.
<ScottK> That's all.
<rickspencer3> all ... I might get disconnected soon
<ogra> we'll get more builder HW for armel at least
<ogra> post maverick
<rickspencer3> if I do, just, try to find a way to go one without me ;)
<ogra> so that shouldnt be behind that much anymore then
<rickspencer3> iainfarrell, ivanka anything?
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] Derivatives
<MootBot> New Topic:  Derivatives
<rickspencer3> anything there?
<JamieBennett> Just a couple of points to mention wrt Linaro.
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> go ahead
<JamieBennett> Firefox/xulrunner fail to build on ARMEL, if its an issue for A3 we need to upload a toolchain patch or a work around.
<ivanka> rickspencer3: everything good here. No blockers. All on track.
<JamieBennett> The linaro team also issues the first pull request to the kernel team for our linux-linaro tree.
<JamieBennett> Other than that everything is on track.
<ScottK> ogra: Armel is not a major problem in this perspective.  It keeps up much better than powerpc, sparc, ia64.
<rickspencer3> thanks ivanka
<ogra> ScottK, yeah
<ogra> thats true
<rickspencer3> JamieBennett, regarding the pull request, do you need a response from anyone?
<JamieBennett> I'm not involved in the request but as long as it happening all is good :)
<JamieBennett> we will keep on top of it
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> can we move on to 10.04.1?
<JamieBennett> yup from me
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> first NEW RELEASE DATE: August 12, 2010
<rickspencer3> !!!
<rickspencer3> so, we need to work systematically and dilligently to do a great job with this
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> [TOPIC] 10.04.1
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.1
<rickspencer3> marjo, Hardware Re-certification Status
<marjo> * Hardware Re-certification Status
<marjo> Ready to run automated tests on Monday, August 2; will need to manage testing schedule conflict with 10.10 Alpha 3 next week
<marjo> pitti agreed this is a reasonable expectation (as of this morning)
<rickspencer3> good
<rickspencer3> marjo, else on Hardware Re-cert?
<marjo> rickspencer3: not much more to say atm
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> ttx, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-eucalyptus-10.04
<rickspencer3> ?
<ttx> We don't expect to push any more SRU into eucalyptus in lucid...
<ttx> looking at the spec now
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> ttx, can you follow up with robbiew regarding that next week?
<rickspencer3> ok
<ttx> sure
<rickspencer3> milestoned bugs
<rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone=27565
<rickspencer3> looks like 2 highs are triaged
<ttx> server-maverick-eucalyptus-10.04 has been superseded by server-maverick-uec-eucalyptus-next
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, can you let ChrisCoulson know that he needs to take care of
<rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/enigmail-locales/+bug/572018
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572018 in enigmail-locales (Ubuntu Lucid) "enigmail-locales is no longer needed in Lucid+" [High,Triaged]
<rickspencer3> for 10.04.1
<rickspencer3> have him get in touch with robbiew about getting that taken care of?
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<rickspencer3> so, that's the agenda
<rickspencer3> else to discuss regarding 10.10 or 10.04.1?
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> let's call it a wrap?
<rickspencer3> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:57.
<marjo> rickspencer3: thx; nice!
<chrisccoulson> hi, i just noticed my name was mentioned ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, did you read that?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-31
<kreme191> does this chat room help ppl with ubuntu issues
<hyperair> no.
<hyperair> the correct place is #ubuntu.
<kreme191> thanx
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-01
<ivanka> Hi, who's around?
<swatfoot> hello
<elsmine> Hi guys, does anyonw know a way to see a twitter private profile?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-25
<kees> \o
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> hellow!
<jjohansen> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> sorry I was a little late. let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:22. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> we don't have any formal ones from last week. jjohansen said he'd talk to me about dbus/apparmor, and did :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm an triage this week
<jdstrand> I have several updates I am working on
<jdstrand> I am going to attempt to get a dbus/apparmor uploaded with just the stubs for the apparmor hooks, as after talking with skaet this should make things either
<jdstrand> s/either/easier/
<jdstrand> I've also got a couple of apparmor profiles I'd like to get uploaded (related to work items)
<jdstrand> I have more training
<jdstrand> and apparently am the only active archive admin on duty for the week, due to debconf
<jdstrand> it looks to be a busy week
<jdstrand> kees: you're next
 * Daviey hides RE: libvirt.
<kees> alright, I'm on community
<jdstrand> Daviey: I may have to just upload :( we'll talk later
<kees> I'm trying to catch up on kernel CVEs -- it looks like mitre is very far behind, so I've got to go through oss-security to find stuff
<jdstrand> bleck
<bliss> mitre is always behind
<kees> bliss: this is much worse than usual
<kees> but regardless, yeah, they are, so I'm moving "review oss-security" up my priority list for each day :)
<jdstrand> they really have been for quite a few months
<kees> at the same time, i'm working on getting a bug sync tool written to help the kernel team with bug statuses
<kees> that's it from me
<bliss> proc commander out
<mdeslaur> lol
 * kees threatens bliss ;)
<bliss> sorry, don't mean to be disruptive :-)
<jdstrand> hehe
<kees> nah, that was for 'proc commander' :) anyway, mdeslaur is up
 * jdstrand loves 'proc commander', fwiw :)
<mdeslaur> this week, I'm in the happy place
<mdeslaur> I've just published freetype updates, and am currently working on libpng
<mdeslaur> am also working on an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> and will further go down the list
<mdeslaur> friday, I'm on patch piloting
<mdeslaur> (different than being the proc commander)
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place this week, after being on community last week.
<sbeattie> I've got an icedtea-web/openjdk update I'm working on.
<sbeattie> After that, I'm going to try to catch up on my apparmor work items.
<sbeattie> that's it for me; micahg?
<micahg> I'm working on webkit in various forms and associated CVE cleanup, chromium is a little late on their 6 week release train, so I expect a release relatively soon, but have no real idea about when, so if it comes, I'll take care of that, that's it for me
<jdstrand> thanks guys
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security on Freenode. The highlighted packages for this week are:
<jdstrand>   * http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smilutils.html
<jdstrand>   * http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ccid.html
<jdstrand>   * http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libglpng.html
<jdstrand>   * http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ntop.html
<jdstrand>   * http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ziproxy.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I will be out of town for two weeks starting next monday (conference/holiday)
<jdstrand> I know kees will also be out at least part of next week (conference)
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I would like to discuss the openjdk update for a second.
<kees> wheee blackhat/defcon
<bliss> would it be possible to devote time/effort to auditing packages identified by community members or the security team as needing a security overhaul?  ideally packages that are widely used or commonly integrated into ubuntu
<bliss> in a more coordinated way, i mean
<bliss> it just strikes me that there are several widely used packages where everyone knows they're broken, but nobody has time or interest in fixing them
<kees> i would certain like to see something like that. do you want to do the coordination?
<bliss> sure, i'd be happy to help in whatever way i can
<bliss> anyone can get involved as well, doesn't need to just be security team
<jdstrand> I think starting with wishlist bugs would be a good start. if there is a lot, it could be a wiki page
<bliss> yeah
<bliss> maybe for starters, a public list of "these packages could use some auditing/hardening"
<jdstrand> I can incorporate into the 'Highlighted package' section, if there is an easy way to incorporate it
<bliss> cool
<bliss> we can brainstorm over the next few days/weeks, no need to draw out the meeting
<bliss> just something that's been on my mind
<kees> google may want to get involved too
<bliss> yeah, i'd imagine
<bliss> examples: libavcodec/libavformat, libpoppler, libfreetype
<jdstrand> bliss: thanks. maybe this could be discussed on the mailing list (<ubuntu-hardened@lists.ubuntu.com>)
<jdstrand> (the process, not necessarily which packages, but it could be
<jdstrand> )
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you wanted to discuss openjdk?
<bliss> alright, i'll flesh out some ideas and send an email
<jdstrand> bliss: awesome, thanks :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: bascially, the patches that upstream shipped for icedtea 1.8.9 (used for armel/lucid,maverick) don't compile here.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: awesome
<sbeattie> jdstrand: the packages for the other arches and for icedtea-web built okay, I still need to test them.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: so I thought I would approach upstream with the issue I have while releasing what I have (after testing).
<sbeattie> and then if/when we get a fix for 1.8.9, release those as a -2 update.
<sbeattie> does that sound reasonable?
<jdstrand> yeah, sounds very reasonable. iirc, in the past we have published a -2 for openjdk for other things (building as I recall)
<sbeattie> right.
<sbeattie> okay thanks.
<jdstrand> anything else?
<jdstrand> ok. thanks everyone! :)
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:46.
<kees> thanks jdstrand!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-26
<Daviey> utlemming: Are you happy to chair?
<utlemming> Daviey: sure
<smb> \o
<adam_g> o/
<Daviey> utlemming: Are you getting my pm's?
<zul> helo
<Ursinha> o/
<hallyn> \o
<utlemming> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is utlemming.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<utlemming> [TOPIC] follow up from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  follow up from last meeting
<utlemming> sommer, j1mc: to look at doc presentation (continued x 2)
<utlemming> What is the status on the doc presentation?
<utlemming> And it looks like neither are in...so
<utlemming> [ACTION] sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued x 3)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued x 3)
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<utlemming> Anyone have any topics here?
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Full cycle tracking: - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> We seem to be pretty much on target, with:
<Daviey> Bugs currently being tracked for Oneiric Release: - http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> If there is a bug you are aware of, or currently working on that isn't on that list - please can you raise it here, or with me afterwards.  Thanks.
<Daviey> Sync's/Merges: - http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/server-sid-new.html (We are doing ok!  But please be conservative!)
<Daviey> (boot experience Clint is currently working hard on)
<Daviey> LXC is expected to catch up at the LXC sprint.
<Daviey> Anything else to note?
<hallyn> conservative?
<hallyn> meaning don't do any more synca than we feel we really need to?
 * hallyn confused
<utlemming> Daviey: can you clarify for hallyn?
<Daviey> hallyn: We just need to start stabilising
<Daviey> We can still break stuff, but there is added presure to resolve.
<hallyn> Daviey: oh, i was loking at it a bit differently...
<hallyn> figuring we should sync to the last possible minute in this cycle,
<hallyn> and be extra-conservative in 12.04
<zul> agreed
<hallyn> was particularly hoping not to sync libvirt at all during 12.04 cycle if possible
<Daviey> hallyn: Well we /can/ do that.. but be more aware of issues it might cause.
 * hallyn nods
<Daviey> (hallyn, note that next cycle may be syncing from debian testing, rather than unstable)
<hallyn> ah
<Daviey> hallyn: I wonder if we can reduce our delta regarding libvirt?
<hallyn> Daviey: that's not the issue.  (well, it's a bear, but not the issue ;)
<Daviey> That seems to be moving quite fast in Debian, and regular sync would be easier if a smaller delta.
<hallyn> it's moving fast upstream.
<hallyn> too fast, imo, to safely track during lts cycle.
<Daviey> hallyn: agreed, we'll discuss that at UDS
<hallyn> cool
<jdstrand> fwiw, it does move very fast
<jdstrand> (imo)
<Daviey> jdstrand: We'll nab you for a session regarding core component versioning session at UDS btw :)
<Daviey> utlemming: I think we can move on.
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jdstrand> Daviey: cool
 * jdstrand quiets down
<utlemming> Do we have any events this week?
<utlemming> SpamapS (Clint Byrum) will be speaking at OSCON July 28
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> any questions for me?
<hggdh> otherwise...
<hggdh> ..
<utlemming> hggdh: we'll take silence as no questions
<Daviey> hggdh: None at the moment!
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi
<smb> Not think there so much updates this week
<Daviey> one mo
<smb> Found some missing deps for the xen build which zul is taking care of
<smb> Daviey, yes?
<Daviey> smb / utlemming: Any news on bug #791850 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791850 in linux (Ubuntu) "oneiric cluster compute instances do not boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791850
<utlemming> Daviey: beat me to the punch there...
<smb> Daviey, Not so much from my side, I was using the comment of Amazon looking to provide data as a SEP field
<utlemming> There has been some AWS forum activity going with Oneiric -- so we might need to spend some time there. Amazon reports that the instance dies almost immediately.
<Daviey> utlemming: I assigned it to you, purely as the point of contact - as you were talking to Amazon about it.
<adam_g> i've got a question regarding Bug #799630 and similar, where DKMS packages are updated against backported kernels and fail. is this kinda stuff supported, especially on LTS?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799630 in drbd8 (Ubuntu) "package drbd8-source 2:8.3.7-1ubuntu2.1 failed to install/upgrade: drbd8 kernel module failed to build" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799630
<utlemming> Yes, I've talked with Amazon a couple of times, but haven't made any in roads there yet.
<Daviey> utlemming: ok.. what can we do to progress this?
<Daviey> adam_g: dkms should not build a kernel module if it notices the kernel has a >= to what is in the dkms payload.
<utlemming> I'll work with smb on this -- we'll likely need to get a dump on this or repro this in house
<Daviey> utlemming: sounds good!
<utlemming> [ACTION] smb and utlemming to work on Bug #791850
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb and utlemming to work on Bug #791850
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791850 in linux (Ubuntu) "oneiric cluster compute instances do not boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791850
<smb> adam_g, I guess at least for LTS and when providing backported kernels I think it should be taken care of
<adam_g> Daviey: so that mentioned bug looks more like a packaging issue than anything else?
<RoAkSoAx> adam_g: yes it does, though you'd also have to start updating user-space tools to match the kernel module
<Daviey> adam_g: can't comment really, first time i've looked at it
<Daviey> We'll take it out of meeting.
<utlemming> [ACTION] Daviey and adam_g to address Bug #791850
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey and adam_g to address Bug #791850
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791850 in linux (Ubuntu) "oneiric cluster compute instances do not boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791850
<utlemming> Any other topics for smb?
<smb> Ok. Otherwise I also don't have more.
<adam_g> drbd is one example, but there are other modules that we maintaind out-of-tree and later merged mainline, but in doing so caused out of tree modules to fail to build against later kernels
<Daviey> smb: thanks!
<Daviey> adam_g: Yeah, that sounds like a dkms bug, as it should not build.
<Daviey> Thankfully, the dkms upstream is a ubuntu developer - we'll jump on him if we get blocked. :)
<adam_g> Daviey: ok great, ill be happy to look at it with you later
<smb> Daviey, just note that in some cases you only have the dkms module
<Daviey> yah
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<utlemming> NCommander: you're up
<utlemming> Okay, moving on
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<utlemming> Any questions or comments to or from our community?
<utlemming> Moving on then
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<Daviey> I have nothing to raise.
 * NCommander is here now (sorry, TASP call)
<utlemming> NCommander: glad to have you join
<utlemming> Any updates for us?
<NCommander> Unattended installation with preseeds is now know to work on pandaboard which should help satisfy the requirements of ensebmle
<NCommander> In addition, heavy QA efforts are underway to make sure common sets of server packages work properly on ARM (such as kerberous, ruby-on-rails, etc.)
<NCommander> any help with QA testing of any sort would be greatly appericated
<Daviey> NCommander: Is there docs on using uboot to PXE boot?
<Daviey> NCommander: Where is the QA effort being co-ordinated?
<NCommander> Daviey: more like a loose collection of notes, GrueMaster is the expert on this
<NCommander> Daviey: on two specs in LP
<Daviey> NCommander: I wonder if you'd be able to ask GrueMaster to document this?
 * NCommander tries to get the links
<NCommander> Daviey: he probably has it documented, I just haven't been around to poke him about it
<NCommander> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-o-arm-image-validation
<NCommander> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-o-arm-image-qa
<hallyn> wiki.ubuntu.com/ArmServer ?
<NCommander> hallyn: there's a landing page on the wiki but I don't have a link handy
<hallyn> ah ok
<Daviey> NCommander: This probably needs to be better vocalised.
<NCommander> Daviey: the QA bits?
<Daviey> NCommander: both parts :)
<NCommander> I'll make a posting on my blog about it, though I'm unsure how many people actually read it :-(
<Daviey> NCommander: We'll all read it :)
<Daviey> it will be well recieved. :)
<Daviey> Thanks NCommander !
<NCommander> np
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<utlemming> Tuesday 2011-08-02 at 1600 UTC here in #ubuntu-meeting
<utlemming> Thank you everyone and have a good week
<utlemming> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:43.
<Daviey> thanks utlemming
<utlemming> :)
<ppisati> o/
<smb> \o
<bjf> #
<bjf> # lets "get 'er done"!
<bjf> #
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: finally pushed out the first oneiric 3.0 + TI BSP kernel (3.0.0-1200.2), and there's already a BSP update in the pipe.
<ppisati> Oneiric/tegra: forward ported/triaged around ~600 patches from 2.6.38 to 3.0 - basically video/ and arch/arm/mach-tegra/, plus some glue functions here and there. The kernel doesn't compile yet.
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> === Release Metrics ===
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 26 linux kernel bugs (up 6)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu oneiric-alpha-3 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 22 natty linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 65 oneiric bugs (up 3)
<ogasawara>  * 1425 natty bugs (up 5)
<ogasawara>  * 1092 maverick bugs (down 11)
<ogasawara>  * 927 lucid bugs (down 41)
<ogasawara>  * 32 hardy bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 12 natty bugs (up 6)
<ogasawara>  * 41 maverick bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 74 lucid bugs (down 8)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 1 oneiric bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 440 natty bugs (down 4)
<ogasawara>  * 242 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 208 lucid bugs (down 9)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 2 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 maverick bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> apw, lag, rsalveti: you have work items to review your set of Ubuntu patches.  I've pushed these out to Alpha-3 for you.  Please take a moment to review when you have a chance. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelOneiricUbuntuDeltaReview for your specific set of patches.  Note, these are the only remaining work items for this blueprint.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the 3.0.0-7.8 kernel.  This most notably enabled overlayfs as well as rebased to upstream v3.0 final.  Alpha-3 is next Thurs, Aug 4th.  I intend to upload our final Alpha-3 this Friday, July 29th.  If there are any patches that need to land for Alpha-3, get them sent to the kt-ml asap.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw> After hitting 0 CVEs open on all branches but Hardy at the start of the week we have seen, one CVE has resurface and 8 new ones have been added.  Luckily a large number of the new CVEs are already fixed in Lucid and later.
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~apw/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~apw/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw> || Package                                  || Open ||
<apw> ||                                          ||      ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||   12 ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    2 ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    9 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    9 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    2 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    3 ||
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || This is kernel verifiation,
<sconklin> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/812360|Hardy Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * A new kernel is in -proposed, ready for  QA (early)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 812360 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.24-29.92 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/813507|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * A new kernel was built to include one additional patch, and has completed testing
<sconklin> ||   It is ready to be published
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 813507 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "linux: 2.6.32-33.71 -proposed tracker" [High,In progress]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/808934|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Kernel in -proposed from the last cycle is awaiting regression testing.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 808934 in Kernel SRU Workflow "linux: 2.6.35-30.56 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/811180|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Verification has begun for this kernel, with two bugs remaining to be verified
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 811180 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.38-11.47 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are always available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-29.91         || 2.6.24-29.92         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.30.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-30.56~lucid1  ||   22 ||       22 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-33.70         || 2.6.32-33.71         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-30.54         || 2.6.35-30.56         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || natty    linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || 2.6.38.1209.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    || 2.6.38-10.6          || 2.6.38-11.7          ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    ||                      || 1.52.1               ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.38-10.46         || 2.6.38-11.47         ||   18 ||       16 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.38.10.25         || 2.6.38.11.26         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:06.
<sconklin> thanks
<kamal> thanks bjf
<apw> bjf thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-27
<poolie> hi all
<poolie> udd meeting?
<james_w> hi poolie
<poolie> hi james_w
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hi folks.  i think we may have had a time snafu, but is anybody around for the udd stakeholders meeting today?
<james_w> hi
<barry> hi james_w, i know poolie was around a bit ago
<poolie> oh hi
<poolie> i'm here
<barry> hi.  any word from jam, vila, jelmer, riddell?
<barry> btw, while we're waiting did anybody see the article on git linked from /. today?  once again bzr gets shorted.  /me resolves to write his "why bzr rocks" article
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110727
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110727
<jelmer> hi
<barry> hi jelmer
<barry> i guess we should just jump in then...
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>    * jelmer to study the feasibility of merge helper ([[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb/+bug/608675|bug 608675]]) as an intermediate step for quilt support
<barry>  
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 608675 in bzr-builddeb "merge-package should have support for manipulating quilt v3 patch stacks" [High,In progress]
<jelmer> jam and i are goibg to pair on that when he gets back from holiday
<barry> awesome
<barry>    * jelmer to look into [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/609187|bug 609187]] (warn when package import is out of date)
<barry>  
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "users are not warned when branching ubuntu:foo (or lp:ubuntu/foo) and the package import of foo is out of date" [High,Fix released]
<barry> i think the new bzr.dev feature addresses this, right?  oh, and it's awesome
<poolie> yes, john fixed it, and it is great
<poolie> it also starts a new much faster lp api client
<poolie> currently covering one api point i think :)
<barry> :)  yes, it's really great.  any thoughts on back porting this feature to released bzr?
<poolie> yes, that should be pretty easy
<poolie> i think it was done based off an old branch
<poolie> i had some concern about whether it would be seen as in the spirit of srus
<poolie> it probably is ok though
<poolie> certainly a welcome feature
<poolie> shall we put it in everything back to lucid?
<barry> i can understand the hesitation to sru a new feature, but this one really is a significant help to udd packagers, so i'd vote for "yes"
<jelmer> me too
<jelmer> though how many packagers are on lucid?
<barry> jelmer: that's a good point, probably not many.  but i'd say definitely sru to natty
<poolie> i guess they may well be running it within a chroot or on a vm
<barry> at least
<poolie> or on a canonical dc machine ofr that matter
<poolie> i'll add a note on the bug
<barry> thanks.  we should also update the new packaging guide, because it will really simplify things.  is Riddell up for that?  if not, i can do it (once it lands in natty and oneiric at least)
<poolie> yes, he's been doing a lot of work on it
<poolie> i don't know if he's here right now
<poolie> we should mention it
<barry> he's been doing *fantastic* work on the guide (i've reviewed a bunch of his branches).  i'll take an action to coordinate with him
<barry> [ACTION] barry to coordinate w/Riddell about updating the guide for bug 609187 feature
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to coordinate w/Riddell about updating the guide for bug 609187 feature
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "users are not warned when branching ubuntu:foo (or lp:ubuntu/foo) and the package import of foo is out of date" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609187
<barry>    * jelmer to post summary of user visible changes with lp rollout
<barry>  
<barry>    * jelmer to post feature summary about inline diffs
<barry>  
<barry> jelmer: do you remember these?
<jelmer> I dont remember these
<poolie> he's only intermittently connected
<poolie> i think really we can put this on mrevell who does blog.l.n
<poolie> but, perhaps we want to share it with ubuntu-devel or something?
<jelmer> I was only a bit involved with them
<barry> poolie: do you think we need to do anything special or will the normal lp feature rollout announcement machinery take care of it? ;)
<poolie> i don't think we should do anything special
<barry> cool.
<poolie> i think the announcements will get at least onto planet ubuntu
<jelmer> yeah, they do
<barry>    * riddell to update udd docs to use {{{bzr tag}}} instead of {{{bzr mark-uploaded}}}
<barry>  
<barry> i think that's done
<barry> [TOPIC] package importer progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  package importer progress
<poolie> ok
<poolie> so, some progress there
<poolie> we deployed a new bzr which fixed some things but had some bad fallout
<poolie> so we're now back on 2.3.4
<poolie> ithink it's at about 430 failures
<barry> didn't vila fix a bunch of failures, or is that part of what got rolled back?
<jelmer> multi tarball suppprt is almost done
<poolie> we have fixed several classes of failure
<poolie> that's great, thanks
<barry> jelmer: nice.  do you have any example packages that use multiple tarballs?
<poolie> yes, search for 'multiple' on http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<jelmer> some, but I can always use more
<barry> perl :)
<barry> so, is the bad fallout from the rollout fixed?  do you expect to see a bzr update on lp again soon?
<poolie> ah, ok
<poolie> so we did two rollouts, to the udd importer and to launchpad, both of which had some bumps
<poolie> i think we will do them again soon, probably within this fortnight
<jelmer> I have a mp that is awaiting review that fixes lp
<barry> cool
<jelmer> we had a postmortem about the lp one (thanks poolie!)
<barry> anything else on the importer?
<barry> [TOPIC] bugs of interest
<MootBot> New Topic:  bugs of interest
<barry> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<jelmer> not from me
<poolie> oh, one new thing, which is bit.ly/ubuntu-vcs-job
<poolie> looking for someone great to join in working on this
<poolie> please think of someone who might be interested, and point them to that, or circulate that url
<barry> yep, i've been socially mediating it :)
<poolie> thanks
 * barry is always impressed at the progress evident in the kanban
<Riddell> hi, sorry I'm late
<barry> it's great to see more released/needs release than queued/inprogress/needs review :)
<barry> hi Riddell no worries.  you might want to read the scollback
<barry> poolie, jelmer anything in particular you want to point out about the kanban?
<poolie> i got a few personal bugs sorted out which was nice
<poolie> jelmer are the colo branch url things tolerably unblocked?
<poolie> oh, lp is making some codehost deployment changes that should put it behind an haproxy
<poolie> which should make it more stable, especially during upgrades
<poolie> and also, safely let us test jam's faster-connection-startup patch
<poolie> which when it works should take something like 1s off the start of a connection
<barry> nice
<poolie> i think we're about done
<barry> [TOPIC] aob
<MootBot> New Topic:  aob
<barry> poolie: just one from me.  can you double check the gcal meeting time?  i'm good for meeting in 2 weeks at 1200 utc, but if people will be disappearing for vacation, we can skip 2 weeks from now
<Riddell> I need to set a better meeting reminder, this meeting happens just as I go for lunch :(
<poolie> i think bzr people are tending to be away now, rather
<jelmer> poolie: yes, colocated is unblocked
<barry> poolie: why don't we just cancel the august meetings and come back in september (i.e. sept 7th)?  or is that too much of a gap?
<poolie> i think that's ok
<poolie> ok
<poolie> i cannot persuade gcal to change the time
<poolie> :/
<barry> cool, resolved then. :)
<barry> grrr.  ;)
<poolie> so that's the 7th of september then?
<barry> poolie: yep.  i'm also happy to do it at 1100utc come september
<poolie> could you be so kind as to send minutes with this right at the top?
<barry> poolie: will do
<poolie> ok
<poolie> it's late here; i might go
<barry> unless there's anything else, i think we're done...
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:38.
<barry> thanks everyone!
<jelmer> thanks barry
 * stgraber waves
 * bdmurray waves
 * barry silently twitches
<stgraber> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is stgraber.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ev> hiya
<mvo> hi
<stgraber> so, unless I missed something, we're missing cjwatson, jhunt_ and slangasek today?
<stgraber> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
<stgraber> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray ev doko mvo stgraber)
<stgraber> doko barry mvo stgraber ev bdmurray
<stgraber> though doko doesn't seem to be around either
<ev> they're at debconf
<stgraber> barry: you're up!
<barry> in that case...
<barry> more bug 788514 (libapache2-mod-python, python-gnupginterface, python-gtkspell, python-ibus, ibus-pinyin, ibus-table, python-liblouis, python-notify, papyon); developer experience cop; mm3 authentication meeting; ubuntu-packaging-guide reviews; various work on lucid lts ppa; udd meetings. done.
<barry>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788514 in Ubuntu Oneiric "python packages on the CDs not using dh_python2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788514
<mvo> did:
<mvo> software-center: add toprated sort/keymaker/UI, add utils/show_top_rated_for_various_powers.py, work on gtk3/GI version of purchase/available-for-me, write more tests, code refactor, move AppEnquire into generic db space, make a gobject, add query-complete signal, pyflake fixes, review/merge top-rated branch from axp2, work on tests for the new nav history
<mvo> update-manager: review/merge lp:~mterry/update-manager/813778 (thanks mterry!), review/merge lp:~rodrigo-moya/update-manager/use-new-power-interface, lp:~evfool/update-manager/shortinterval, lp:~evfool/update-manager/sortpackages, debug/fix resize issue (#812949), cleanup
<mvo> apt: fix cdrom mount path problem for good and add DeEscapeString() function (with tests) to libapt, merge from debian-sid, test/upload new version to oneiric
<mvo> software-properties: fix SetUpdateInterval() to use the dbus backend and upload new version, fix cdrom support
<mvo> apt-xapian-index: merge from debian, apply patch from brian murray (#752195)
<mvo> apturl: add aptdaemon backend and port to gtk3
<mvo> gdebi: fix resize issue
<mvo> auto-upgrade-tester: debug rootfs find failure, cherry pick fix for grub, add (optional) jenkins slave, deploy jenkins slave in QA lab, add jenkins configuration matrix
<mvo> EOF
<stgraber> DONE: - tpm stuff: Reproduced a bug in opencryptoki on Natty. Bugfix got uploaded to Oneiric but can't be tested. Now trying to get TPM support working on Oneiric... - multipath: Spent a good part of Monday and yesterday playing with the SAN in Montreal to test a multipath-tools bugfix. (bug 690387)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690387 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Maverick) "udev block naming breaks failover and sd kref release cycle" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690387
<stgraber>  - IPv6: Helped cyphermox est some more network-manager packages until all the tests finally passed. B.logged about the state of things and asked for some more community testing: http://www.stgraber.org/2011/07/26/state-of-ipv6-in-ubuntu-oneiric/ - Daily builds: LTSP (all of the packages) and LXC now have daily builds working - LTSP: Worked a bit on implementing support for new nbd-server, needs some more work. (bug 806419)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806419 in ltsp (Ubuntu Oneiric) "nbd-server doesn't work on Oneiric" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806419
<stgraber>  - Arkose: Got a woring DBUS proxy yesterday, code is here: lp:~arkose-devel/avrkose/dbus-proxy
<stgraber> TODO for this week: - Patch pilot this afternoon - Try to get tpm-tools to build on Oneiric (ideally with the latest upstream release) - Convince the SAN in Montreal to do multipath so I can actually test the SRU :) - Cleanup arkose's dbus-proxy code, implement blacklisting/whitelisting and integrate into the arkose code. - Fix LTSP so that it works for alpha-3
<stgraber> copy/paste really hates me... irssi says I'm pasting 13 lines and it ends up on just 4...
<stgraber> readable version is at: http://paste.ubuntu.com/653167/ :)
<stgraber> Oh, and bought myself a used SAN on ebay with plenty of storage for close to nothing ;) should arrive this week/next so I have more storage here and can use it for multipath testing.
<stgraber> (done)
<mvo> SAN> woah!
<stgraber> hehe
<stgraber> 2.3TB of 10k RPM storage on fiber channel, that's going to be fun!
<barry> wow!
<stgraber> that was for around $700-800 shipping included (from California) ;)
<stgraber> just the disks are worth more than that :)
<stgraber> ev: ?
<ev> - Fixed unicode issues on the keyboard page for the PyGI branch.
<ev> - Sorted my travel arrangements for Linux Plumbers.
<ev> - More PyGI work:
<ev>   - Fixed the GtkBuilder UI for the user setup page, which was all sorts of
<ev>     broken.
<ev>   - Hostname collision detection.
<ev>   - Unit tests for the user setup page.
<ev> - Wubi disk image integration work.
<ev> - Looked into creating a Wubi unit test harness.  Stopped for now, will review
<ev>   come feature freeze.
<ev> - Bootloader work in the Wubi disk image stuff.
<ev> - Looking into various places to save space in the compressed Wubi executable,
<ev>   since I'm adding a moderate amount of space to it with xz support and other
<ev>   bits.
<ev> - Reviewed the designs for the installer slideshow.
<ev> - Investigated jasper and oem-config, but ultimately went with a pure
<bdmurray> ev: is there more?
<ev> bdmurray: did it get cut off?
<bdmurray> stopped at pure
<ev> god I hate IRC
<ev>   lupin initramfs solution for firstboot.
<ev> - Worked on the initramfs code for Wubi firstboot.  All done now.
<ev> - Reviewed the advanced partitioner specification with Matthew.
<ev> - Fixes to live-build, lupin, and livecd-rootfs for Wubi.
<ev> - Looked into live resizing the ext3 disk image should it run out of disk
<stgraber> hehe, for once I'm not the only one having copy/paste issues ;)
<ev>   space.
<ev> - Looking into loading the slideshow from MFC and Python using ctypes.
<ev> (done)
<bdmurray> consolidation of duplicate dpkg bug reports, apt-xapian-index bug triage, grub2 bug triage, wrote code to tag dist-upgrade bug reports and tagging  them dist-upgrade, moving of linux apport-package bug reports to grub2
<bdmurray> base-files upload regarding motd and conffiles (bug 813282), apt-xapian-index fix for bug 752195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813282 in base-files (Ubuntu) "base-files: /etc/update-motd.d/* should be conffiles" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813282
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 752195 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "update-apt-xapian-index crashed with OSError in getmtime(): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/share/app-install/desktop/metamorphose2.desktop'" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752195
<bdmurray> updated search-bugs to search all of ubuntu bug reports if the package is ubuntu, then searching and modified apport-package bug reports as         duplicates, bug pattern writing for foreign language package is already installed and configured bug reports
<bdmurray> wrote a launchpadlib script to check all fixed bugs about a package for similar bug reports, grab-attachments modification to accept --tag 'apport- package', udd database querying to find similar bugs about a package in ubuntu and debian
<bdmurray> apport uploads fixing ubiquity source package hook, collecting upstart override files (bug 803977), collecting modified conffiles, checking         VarLogDistupgradeApttermlog for bug patterns, fixing kernel-driver tagging of kernel oopses
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803977 in apport (Ubuntu) "Add hook to attach Upstart override files" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803977
<bdmurray> phone call with jose plans regarding L3 support, email to ubuntu-devel and bugsquad regarding conffiles and upstart overrides
<bdmurray> done
<stgraber> cool. Any question?
<stgraber> apparently not
<stgraber> [TOPIC] Oneiric bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric bugs
<stgraber> bdmurray: anything?
<bdmurray> So just a couple have shown up this past week
<bdmurray> bug 814331
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 814331 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[Oneiric] update-manager installs packages without authentication" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814331
<bdmurray> mvo: I haven't tested that one myself yet
<mvo> bdmurray: this is probably releated to the upload that pitti did for policykit/aptdaemon, upgrades can now be done without authentication
<bdmurray> mvo: that was intended?
<stgraber> mvo: without authentication for anyone in the admin group, right?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> correct, admin group
<bdmurray> ah, that's good to know
<mvo> I guess we should have annonced it a bit more
<bdmurray> the other bug isn't a oneiric one but bug 813468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813468 in update-manager (Ubuntu Lucid) "Panel indicators not updated correctly after upgrade from Hardy to Lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813468
<bdmurray> mvo: yes probably
<mvo> hm, I'm not sure this bug is update-manager land, I mean, that is a user session
<stgraber> bdmurray: hmm, why is that one assigned to update-manager? is it update-manager that updates the gconf config on desktop upgrade?
<mvo> let me ask the desktop guys
<bdmurray> stgraber: ah, yes I'd just found that this morning
<stgraber> 15:21 < seb128> mvo, it's one of those old gnome-panels bugs which are there since warty that nobody will ever fix in the old codebase and which are fixed in  GNOME3
<stgraber> in case everyone isn't in -desktop :)
<stgraber> anything else for bugs?
<bdmurray> nope that's it
<stgraber> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<bdmurray> stgraber: maybe you could merge https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/ubuntu/oneiric/apport/kernel-driver-tagging-improvement/+merge/69109 when you are piloting?
<stgraber> bdmurray: will do
<bdmurray> thanks
<stgraber> ok, I guess that's it then
<stgraber> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:27.
<stgraber> thanks everyone!
<barry> thanks stgraber!
<mvo> thanks
<ev> thanks
<patrickmw> hello all
<patrickmw> I don't see jibel online, so I will volunteer run the QA meeting today
<patrickmw> ready to start?
<patrickmw> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is patrickmw.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<patrickmw> Previous Actions (all)
<patrickmw> Community Efforts/Testing
<patrickmw> Automated/Systems Testing
<patrickmw> Engineering Team Bug Status
<patrickmw> Other Topics
<patrickmw> Chair Selection
<patrickmw> any previous actions?
<patrickmw> it's quiet. am I early??
<afleck> im here, but i'm just observing
<patrickmw> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<patrickmw> pedro_?
<pedro_> that sort of jibel topic i think
<patrickmw> just curious if you had a bug day announcement :)
<patrickmw> sorry bout that
<pedro_> oh yes i have
<pedro_> we're going to have a bug day for compiz tomorrow
<pedro_> specially dedicated for polishing it a bit more for Oneiric
<pedro_> so if you're using Oneiric with Unity 3d, please join us tomorrow the whole day your timezone
<pedro_> as always we're going to hang out at #ubuntu-bugs
<pedro_> and as you can see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110728
<pedro_> people already started to work on it, but don't worry there's still a lot of bug reports waiting to be triaged so if you have time remember we'd love to have some extra help :-)
<pedro_> ..
<patrickmw> thanks for the update
<patrickmw> [Automated/Systems Testing]
<patrickmw> boo
<patrickmw> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<patrickmw> lots today
<patrickmw> = Upgrade Testing =
<patrickmw> * All upgrade profiles for Oneiric are now running in a compact job
<patrickmw> * Thanks to mvo for migrating his work and creating documentation!
<patrickmw> = Kernel SRU =
<patrickmw> * Branches being locally tested now and will be proposed for merge today. Changes are for testing Lucid (and prep for all previous releases)
<patrickmw> = New Projects =
<patrickmw> * ipv6 and upstart testing.  working with foundations to gather requirements
<patrickmw> * more requests to add packages for CI \o/
<patrickmw> * start planning for ltsp test automation \o/ \o/
<patrickmw> = QA Lab =
<patrickmw> * wazn and albali hw are being upgraded today.  testing will be suspended until they are back online.
<patrickmw> * qa lab backup stategy in progress
<patrickmw> Announcing new testing mailing list: ubuntu-testing-notifications@lists.ubuntu.com
<patrickmw> The notifications are sent from Jenkins for failing or unstable jobs.  Only a few jobs are sending notifications at this time, but this will increase as we add more.
<patrickmw> Questions?
<patrickmw> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status
<patrickmw> pedro_?
<patrickmw> then could you please appoint the next presenter :)
<pedro_> sure, so i've pushed the code for the desktop report to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-defect-analysts
<pedro_> so the other teams can use it if they think it works fine for them
<pedro_> not much to share besides that and the bug day
<pedro_> ..
<pedro_> Ursinha, bdmurray anything to share?
<bdmurray> pedro_: oh yes
<bdmurray> base-files upload regarding motd and conffiles (bug 813282), apt-xapian-index fix for bug 752195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813282 in base-files (Ubuntu) "base-files: /etc/update-motd.d/* should be conffiles" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813282
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 752195 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "update-apt-xapian-index crashed with OSError in getmtime(): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/share/app-install/desktop/metamorphose2.desktop'" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752195
<bdmurray> updated search-bugs to search all of ubuntu bug reports if the package is ubuntu, then searching and modified apport-package bug reports as         duplicates, bug pattern writing for foreign language package is already installed and configured bug reports
<bdmurray> wrote a launchpadlib script to check all fixed bugs about a package for similar bug reports, grab-attachments modification to accept --tag 'apport- package', udd database querying to find similar bugs about a package in ubuntu and debian
<bdmurray> apport uploads fixing ubiquity source package hook, collecting upstart override files (bug 803977), collecting modified conffiles, checking         VarLogDistupgradeApttermlog for bug patterns, fixing kernel-driver tagging of kernel oopses
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803977 in apport (Ubuntu) "Add hook to attach Upstart override files" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803977
<bdmurray> and I sent email notifications about the overrides and conffiles changes to apport
<bdmurray> those should be quite interesting
<bdmurray> that's that
<patrickmw> Ursinha?
<patrickmw> [TOPIC] Other Topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Topics
<patrickmw> open floor
<patrickmw> [TOPIC] Chair Auto-Selection - jibel :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair Auto-Selection - jibel :)
<pedro_> lol
<patrickmw> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
<patrickmw> have a good day all!
<pedro_> thank you for chairing patrickmw
<patrickmw> my pleasure
<micahg> oops
<micahg> I meant to bring up something
<micahg> patrickmw: ^^
<micahg> should I just discuss in #ubuntu-quality or #ubuntu-testing
<patrickmw> micahg, quality
<micahg> k, joining
<Ursinha> sorry people, notification fail here
<highvoltage> anyone around for the Edubuntu meeting?
<alkisg> Hey there :)
<highvoltage> hey alkisg
<highvoltage> I'll go ahead and give a summary of some testing I did...
<highvoltage>  * As of todays daily build, gnome fallback mode has menus again
<highvoltage>  * sabayon crashes at startup
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage>  * pessulus settings doesn't get applied (I guess because those settings are now in dconf instead of gconf)
<highvoltage>  * nanny crashes on startup
<highvoltage>  * italc seems to work ok but I'll do some further testing to be sure
<alkisg> Is that the second version? Or still 1.x?
<highvoltage>  * edubuntu menueditor seems to work as well, but I'll ask mgariepy to test some more when he's back from holiday
<highvoltage> italc? it's 1.0.13
<highvoltage> there doesn't seem to be a newer release yet
<alkisg> Ah yeah the second is still too beta to be included in any distro
<highvoltage> I was considering maintaining the breathe icon theme, but it's fallen behind so much already that I don't think it's really worth while
<highvoltage> I think for oneiric it's probably best to stick with the default ubuntu icon theme
 * alkisg was always fond of using the default ubuntu icons
<highvoltage> (either that, or if somoene has the time package another icon theme that's as solid)
<highvoltage> I think we should include gnome-tweak-tool as well
<highvoltage> it allows users to change GTK theme, icon theme and what controls should be included in the title bar
<highvoltage> oh and also fonts and what actions should happen when laptop lids are closed
<highvoltage> I find gnome upstream's decisions really weird and difficult to understand :)
<alkisg> Hehe
<alkisg> Is that only for the current user (controls etc)? Or also system-wide?
<highvoltage> for sabayon, pessulus and nanny (which are all upstream gnome and doesn't work anymore) we'll either have to fix them or remove them from the seeds
<highvoltage> alkisg: gnome-tweak-tool? it's for the user
<alkisg> OK, would be handy for the students
<highvoltage> I guess pessulus could do with a rewrite anyway. it gets kind of complicated deciding how something should be implemented when it should've been done upstream anyway.
<highvoltage> well that's all I have to report/vent about.
<highvoltage> anything stgraber and alkisg?
<alkisg> Nothing from me, thanks for the update
<highvoltage> my pleasure.
<stgraber> nope
<stgraber> feature freeze is less than a month away
<stgraber> well, actually just two weeks away
<highvoltage> wow that snuck up really fast. I guess we'll need a proper configuration plan for oneiric+1. fixing nanny+sabayon+pessulus (as in, rewriting big parts of it or entirely) for oneiric sounds like a tall order
<stgraber> yeah, as I said in person earlier, I'd really like us to focus on getting our Edubuntu WIs done before starting messing with upstream stuff :)
<highvoltage> *nod*
<alkisg> Wls?
<stgraber> it's not like we really have spare resources or too much free time :)
<stgraber> alkisg: work items
<highvoltage> Work Items
<alkisg> Ah
<alkisg> Indeed, and sabayon is too much job for maintaining... gnome changes too much
<stgraber> alkisg: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-edubuntu.html
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you know whether the ubuntu desktop team is planning to stay with the system settings tool or do the ubuntu control center for future releases?
<highvoltage> (I guess no one can really say for sure yet)
<stgraber> no idea
<alkisg> Cool work items list - from next year I hope i can do a good part of the then-WIs
<highvoltage> what we should do is make a list of all the features we need, how it worked before, how we think it should ideally work and then ask the desktop team for some feedback.
<highvoltage> at least unity doesn't need much lockdown :)
<stgraber> hehe
<highvoltage> stgraber: LTSP is currently broken too because it tries to load ramzswap which seems broken atm
<stgraber> highvoltage: nah, that's not the problem. that thing won't break your boot. nbd-server rejecting the connect is
<stgraber> *connection
<stgraber> bug 806419
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806419 in ltsp (Ubuntu Oneiric) "nbd-server doesn't work on Oneiric" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806419
<highvoltage> does that have something to do with the new nbd settings that aren't per port anymore?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> that's why I'm fixing it ;)
<highvoltage> great. so that's at least 2 edubuntu related bugs you'll be fixing :)
<stgraber> I wouldn't update ltsp-update-image/ltsp-update-kernels and half our init scripts just for fun :)
<stgraber> the swap thingy I'm not sure I'll fix just now. My current goal is to get ltsp booting again
<stgraber> nbdswap and ramzswap can always be fixed later (as in, post-FF or whenever-somebody-who-cares-as-time)
<stgraber> *has
<highvoltage> I don't like ramzswap anyway
<stgraber> compcache was quite ugly, ramzswap is "supposed" to be better.
<highvoltage> does it grow only as needed?
<stgraber> but yeah, getting rid of the boot time errors would be nice, though once ltsp boots again we should get a splash hidding these
<stgraber> no clue, I just know that this one is in the upstream kernel and that it's supposed to be better
<alkisg> NBD swap is significant for ltsp, ramswap... not so much
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-28
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> G'day NCommander
<NCommander> monring
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110728
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110728
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<NCommander> so it looks like we're making good progress on work items and progression towards A3
<NCommander> beyond that, anyone else have anything to say?
<GrueMaster> Still a lot to do, and A3 is next week.
<davidm> Give me a minute
<davidm> The burn down for A3 is not looking good
<GrueMaster> We'll have to postepone all of ogra's workitems.
<davidm> Yes, lets make that happen today please
<davidm> He is on holiday, they should have been postponed when he left
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to postpone ogra's workitems
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to postpone ogra's workitems
<NCommander> can I move on?
<GrueMaster> persia: Any chance you will get to the encryptfs testing this week?
<davidm> Another items we need to postpone?
<davidm> persia, is in western europe this week so I doubt it, postpone
<GrueMaster> I will need to postpone a couple.  The ipv6 test tools don't compile on linux yet.
<davidm> OK GrueMaster adjust the workitems today please
<davidm> NCommander, move on
<GrueMaster> The encryptfs is something either I or mahmoh can knock out with a preseed.
<GrueMaster> Will do.
<davidm> OK
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> w.rt to server status, I've good news that its possible to complete a headless install on OMAP4 enc to end once you PXE boot the installer
<davidm> Nice
<infinity> \o/
<NCommander> Thank GrueMaster and mahmoh for testing.
<NCommander> I got nothing else, Daviey ?
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<davidm> NCommander, I just added an item to the Meting page
<davidm> make that meeting page
<NCommander> davidm: k
<NCommander> so looks like ppisati and cooleney aren't around so moving on
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> made some progress on omcal on why it segfaults but no fix or workaround yet sadly
<NCommander> did find ocaml is heavily thumb2 unsafe and shouldn't have been marked safe/no porting
<davidm> Will is work in ARM mode?
<NCommander> still failed when I tried it
<NCommander> still investigatign deeper.
<NCommander> anyone else?
<infinity> I haven't done any FTBFS work this week, though I should do again soon.
<NCommander> anyway, moving on
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
 * NCommander has nothing new on this subject
<NCommander> so moving on ...
<GrueMaster> What is the status of iMX51/53 images?  Feature Freeze is coming in two weeks.
<davidm> Good question
<infinity> persia put some work into it, but then stalled on some kernel support issues.
<mahmoh> I'd like to know if there should be a separate kernel for server, or separate boot args, I should think so.
<infinity> I haven't had a chance to do anything here, and he hasn't forwarded me his stuff.
<GrueMaster> I would think it would be critical to get an image building, even if it doesn't work.
<persia> My stuff doesn't result in a usable machine at this stage.
<davidm> infinity, lets take that up with Linaro early next week
 * infinity nods.
<cmagina> mahmoh: +1 on the server kernel image
<davidm> I'll ship and Imx 52 to jani this week
<davidm> boot args maybe extra kernel not at this point
<mahmoh> ok, I think I have a bug to track it but who's going to look into it?
<davidm> GrueMaster, we will likely need a FF exception for IMX53
<davidm> mahmoh, what do you need turned on/off from standard kernel?
<mahmoh> elevator=deadline  at least
<GrueMaster> We should probably do some perfomance analisys on the server kernel boot args.
<mahmoh> bug 814157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 814157 in base-installer (Ubuntu) "arm net install fails to install server kernel after selecting Ubuntu Server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814157
<mahmoh> agreed GrueMaster
<davidm> NCommander, ^^
<mahmoh> it may or not make sense, but I don't want to lose track of it
<cmagina> we will want to investigate the best scheduler for server workloads
<davidm> NCommander, can you look into 814157 please
<NCommander> k
<infinity> I'm not sure if it's worth discussing until we have "server" hardware.
<NCommander> mahmoh: server kenl on omap4 is pointless
<davidm> GrueMaster, yes we should test differnet schedulers for perfomance
<mahmoh> maybe so but someone should still look into it and verify that's true
<NCommander> davidm: scheluders are heavily IO bound; numbers gleamed off a panda are useless IMHO
<cmagina> we still need to be aware that it is highly likely to be necessary for when we get server hardware
<davidm> We should set up tests to be rerun once server hardware aval
<GrueMaster> mahmoh: Let's get together after the meeting to discuss testing.
<davidm> Same as we are doing on all other tests
<mahmoh> ack
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Most of the easy workitems for Alpha 3 have been completed and documented.  The remaining few will require some development work.
<GrueMaster> Work on automating these tests for future execution has been slow, but progressing.
<GrueMaster> Focus is currently on getting tests to run with good documentation so that they can be automated in the future.
<GrueMaster> Spot testing the daily preinstalled image builds is looking good.  No glaring bugs on install.  Unfortunately, not a lot of app testing has happened yet, with all the focus on server.
<GrueMaster> The remaining test workitems  for Alpha 3 will require some research to setup, and in the case of ipsec/ipv6, the only tests I have found are for freebsd and will need some coder work.
<GrueMaster> The good side of that last, is these are the tools used for ipv6-ready certification testing.
<GrueMaster> mahmoh: Anything to add to the QA stuff?
<mahmoh> just focusing on automating the testing and so they're tested nightly
<mahmoh> we're updating the wiki to make it more friendly
<mahmoh> if others would like to contribute to typical server applications/loads, please discuss and feel free
<mahmoh> if you've testing things and would like to add the results, please discuss and feel free
<mahmoh> the more the merrier
<mahmoh> that's it
<GrueMaster> NCommander: move
<davidm> NCommander, moving on.....
<NCommander> [topic] Wiki updates by EOD Friday 29 July 2011 (Davidm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Wiki updates by EOD Friday 29 July 2011 (Davidm)
<davidm> Folks we have to have the wiki updates in tomorrow without fail
<NCommander> I did some work on this last night made some progresss on the landing and OMAP pages
<davidm> I'm working with QA but willing to help anywhere
<davidm> Review pages, if you don't like them or think they are out of date, please fix
<davidm> very important
<NCommander> anything else?
<GrueMaster> Am I the only one that thinks any of our pages that require scrolling should have a TOC?
<mahmoh> +1
<davidm> +1
<persia> GrueMaster: That's a good plan
<davidm> hi persia
<davidm> Make use of color where it makes sense in tables it really makes it easier to read and is easy to do
<NCommander> Ill wokr more on this today
<NCommander> can I move on?
<davidm> Moving on
<GrueMaster> Might also be useful to have an /Arm/Template
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<GrueMaster> The USB performance issues we are seeing on Panda may be more widespread than just OMAP3/4.
<GrueMaster> I have heard mention of it effecting other dev boards, like the Tegra2.  Not sure on the babbage.
<davidm> We need to poke at Linaro next week about this
<davidm> Perhaps their Landing team can sort this
<NCommander> qnything else or can I close?
<davidm> OK to close by me
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:50.
<kees> \o
 * kees looks around for more tb members...
<sabdfl> hi folks, sorry to be late
<kees> sabdfl: no problem; still hoping to get keybuk and mdz
<kees> sabdfl: right now it's just the two of us. mdz said he'd likely be available in 10 minutes
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i'll step afk till then
<mdz> kees, back now
<kees> mdz: okay, excellent.
<kees> I think this'll be pretty quick. sabdfl, you ready?
<sabdfl> yup, hi
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:25. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<kees> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<kees> * Set series RM to ubuntu-release (cjwatson)
<kees> it looks like this still needs to be done (the bug is not closed)
<kees> * Brainstorm review update
<kees> I _think_ cjwatson said he'd work on this, but I can't find last meeting's summary. And there's nothing I saw in email, so I think this is still to be done as well.
<mdz> kees, I think so as well
<kees> [TOPIC] Policy proposal for extensions repository
<MootBot> New Topic:  Policy proposal for extensions repository
<kees> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PartnerRepositoryPolicy
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PartnerRepositoryPolicy
<kees> from what I understand, they would like some review of this document
<mdz> IIRC, the last time this came up, it was written as a standalone document, and we asked that it be changed to be a delta relative to existing package policies
<mdz> and it looks like that has happened (thanks!)
<kees> yeah, that part has happened. it seems like there has been no further discussion in July on this. it probably needs some comment on the mailing list.
<mdz> we also wanted to unify it with the ARB's policies
<mdz> or rather, have them all fit into the same policy framework
<kees> which they did too
<kees> "This policy applies to software published through one of the extension repositories Extras, Partner, and Commercial"
<mdz> I have been pretty bad with email the past 6 weeks
<mdz> the structure looks great
<kees> yeah
<mdz> reading over the content now
<kees> how about we all send some notes to the mailing list, CCing allison and nick?
<sabdfl> do they mean copyright enforcement, rather than assignment?
<mdz> I'm confused by the reference to 4.5 debian/copyright
<mdz> but I don't have that section in front of me (there's no hyperlink)
<kees> [ACTION] all to send some notes on the Extension Repository Policy proposal
<MootBot> ACTION received:  all to send some notes on the Extension Repository Policy proposal
<mdz> packages in the extension repositories should surely still have normal debian/copyright files
<kees> let's take todo items each to review and send email. I think that would be more productive.
<mdz> (esp. since they seem to often bundle free software)
<mdz> kees, ok
<mdz> that may significantly delay my response though ;-)
<kees> I'll include anything that jumps out here in my email, if that helps :)
<mdz> kees, I can't find the email to t-b@ requesting review
<kees> mdz: Message-ID: <4E0C58FB.8090402@canonical.com>
<mdz> kees, thanks
<kees> mdz: ah, found it in archive too: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-June/000946.html
<sabdfl> i think "board majority +1" is appropriate
<kees> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-June/000946.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-June/000946.html
<kees> [TOPIC] DMB voting procedure
<MootBot> New Topic:  DMB voting procedure
<kees> the most recent I can find on this thread is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html
<sabdfl> so, if there are not enough +1's in the meeting to reach that, it's enough to get the remainders via email
<kees> right, I guess it's mostly about if they're voting +1 and -1 or +1 and 0. it sounds like they do +1 and 0.
<maco> sabdfl: do you mean there need to be $board_majority +1s and then any number of +0 or -1  or do you mean the total must be +$board_majority?
<kees> so, you just need enough "yes" votes, and the "no" do not count
<maco> kees: there are sometimes -1s in the DMB. a vote in june where there was one is how that discussion got started
<sabdfl> i think it's OK to appoint someone if a majority approve and a minority dissent
<kees> maco: right, and I think the primary question is "is -1 allowed?"
<sabdfl> i think dissention warrants discussion, not a veto
<geser> kees: so a application with 4 +1 (4 members present) gets the same way accepteg like the theoretical case of 4 +1 and 3 -1 (7 members present)?
<sabdfl> i think it's ok to say "you need the support of a majority of the board"
<kees> geser: that's what I'm trying to understand. I'm not advocating, just trying to spell out the interpretations
<kees> sabdfl: so, the expectation is "must have majority, with votes of +1, 0, and -1 allowed". then the question is "what are absent members' votes? forced to be 0?"
<mdz> I'm glad that the DMB is considering this carefully, as I think the sensitivity of membership votes warrant it
<mdz> but I think the KISS principle should apply as well
<maco> kees: assumed 0, unless the +1s fall short, then we take it to the mailing list  <-- current procedure
<cody-somerville> I think that if two members of the DMB feel an applicant isn't ready, it warrants deferral
<sabdfl> ah, i didn't think a -1 counteracted a +1
<maco> (oh, that's also "unless they sent a vote by email ahead of time")
<cody-somerville> (which is what counting -1s does)
<kees> right, if -1 doesn't counteract +1, then it's really a 0.
<sabdfl> if a majority can bring up the confidence to +1, then that's sufficient for me
<cody-somerville> In the current model, as described by myself and persia and agreed by the board in its first term, -1 'counteracts' a +1, yes.
<sabdfl> i think -1's are a "i want to talk about this", not a "i'm reducing the vote by 1"
<mdz> it looks like the vote is not public, so I don't see an issue with there being the possibility of -1 votes
<maco> mdz: what do you mean not public?
<mdz> as long as there is appropriate follow through with regard to the candidate, identifying the concerns and making a way forward
<mdz> maco, that mail says "internal mailing list"
<cody-somerville> mdz,
<cody-somerville> votes are public
<geser> mdz: the votes during the meeting are public, only the ones per mail are private
<mdz> oh, sorry, i've misread
<maco> geser: and even then, like with the last meeting, someone pipes up "oh, and Laney gave his +1 ahead of time"
<mdz> isn't there a precedent for membership votes in other councils already?
<cody-somerville> sabdfl, Since applicants are free to reapply immediately, I think the current models works as its effectively both "reducing the vote by 1" and "i want to talk about this".
<sabdfl> cody-somerville, no, it really isn't
<mdz> is there a need for DMB to be different in this regard?
<Laney> didn't I vote on devel-permissions?
<maco> mdz: im not sure it's standardised across boards. im also not sure the Americas RMB has had a single split vote since i joined it, so not sure what it'd do...
<cody-somerville> sabdfl, Although we're not doing the best job at it, we'd like to follow-up with the candidate and help them resolve the concerns.
<micahg> Laney: you did indeed :)
<maco> Laney: you did
<mdz> I'd like to refer this decision to the CC, and have it apply to all membership councils
<geser> mdz: do the other councils have a good description how votes count?
<sabdfl> cody-somerville, if you're saying "i want to talk about this", it's better to lay that out before folk vote, than -1 and hope that brings it under the threshold
<kees> mdz: that seems like a good idea -- it strikes me that having different voting requirements is a bad idea :P
<Laney> personally I think it should be as persia described, which is essentially that a majority is required
<sabdfl> +1 to consistency
<Laney> but yes, let's standardise
<micahg> mdz: I think the DMB is different than most councils in that the result is the ability to affect all users
<cody-somerville> sabdfl, Its very easy to bring under threshold since when someone votes -1 there is bound to be a number of +0s
<cody-somerville> sabdfl, people are sometimes hesitant to vote -1 and instead vote +0, IMHO
<mdz> micahg, true, but I don't think that warrants a different procedure for counting votes, tbh
<maco> Laney: as persia described, you need a total of +4, after the -1s have subtracted away. with a 7 person board, a simple majority could be +4, -3
<maco> but that total is only +1
<sabdfl> micahg, i think any sphere of contribution can improve or be detrimental to all others
<geser> but in that case it's better for a application when the board only reaches quorum as the is a chance that the non-present members vote +1 in case the application doesn't reach threshold
<micahg> sabdfl: indeed, but a bad blog post on the planet compared to a broken upload to the archive are a big difference
<cody-somerville> Laney, Thats not what persia described. What persia describes is that -2, +5 is enough to defer an application (which is what I think is controversial to some)
<sabdfl> i've sat on quite a few boards
<sabdfl> dissent is not a veto, for a reason
<Laney> yeah, sorry I wasn't clear
<geser> if more members are present the more likely is a vote which can't be affected by the non-present members
<sabdfl> a proposal needs support of the majority, not consensus, and not majority-after-dissent
<sabdfl> there's a reason for that, imo
<sabdfl> it's too easy to make blocking the default
<micahg> maco: you have your acceptance stats handy?
<sabdfl> i'm concerned that the DMB's who've been firm about -1's have been overly slow to recognise the benefits of taking some chances on fresh contributors
<sabdfl> jono mailed recently, and i thought he was correct, with that observation
<cody-somerville> -1 is rather rare with the DMB
<kees> seems like in the +1/-1 method, you'd want "above 0", but that's the same as "majority" in +1/0 method. Doing "majority" in the +1/-1 method would really raise the bar.
<cody-somerville> +0 is probably the most common vote if not +1
<cody-somerville> I see the necessity for the current model because +0 is so popular.
<cody-somerville> If we no longer permit +0 without good reason, I'm fine to move to what sabdfl suggests.
<sabdfl> cody, that would block another way
<sabdfl> i'll say again: it should be enough to muster sufficient support
<sabdfl> let's raise it with the CC and gather their views
<geser> I vote -1 when I'm against the application at that time, +1 when I for it, and 0 when I'm not sure but don't want to block if other give their +1
<kees> seems like simple majority is the way to go. if everyone votes +0, then the board isn't very excited about the candidate
<maco> micahg: http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/dmb_record_keeping.html is the link I sent to u-d@l.u.c  A bit concerning how few volunteer members of the community have applied, but overall acceptance rate does seem pretty high to me.
<maco> geser: ditto
<kees> so, take to CC, then?
<Laney> but with +4 you /can/ block it
<micahg> sabdfl: here are actual numbers with the current voting system on acceptance rate, it's pretty high ^^
<cody-somerville> Indeed. Thanks for that link maco.
<cody-somerville> I think it re-enforces with me that our current voting model works well.
<cody-somerville> and permits us to be conservative when warranted
<maco> (87% acceptance rate)
<Laney> I don't think any of those three deferrals were unfair either.
<mdz> kees, yes please
<kees> my opinion would be that simple yes/not-yet voting to get a majority of "yes" is sufficient, and that people that really feel negative need to shop their opinion around to convince others not to vote "yes".
<kees> but, since it sounds like this should go to CC, we'll defer it there.
<kees> (also since we have 3 minutes left...)
<Laney> So if you want to vote -1 you need to be more forceful
<maco> kees: that sounds reasonable to me
<micahg> what's the point of having a -1 available if it doesn't do anything?
<Laney> which could end up with people being more negative than they would otherwise be
<kees> micahg: right, I recognize that -- but most voting systems are yes/no. it's kind of an accident that we started the convention of +1/-1 and that then resulted in "0" meaning abstain
<kees> but, yes, this needs to go the CC
<kees> [ACTION] refer DMB voting to the CC (kees)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  refer DMB voting to the CC (kees)
<sabdfl> can we wrap this point on that... thanks :)
<Laney> make clear that it's not just for the DMB please
<kees> Laney: yeah, will do that
<kees> [TOPIC] select chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  select chair
<kees> Keybuk is alphabetically next, iiuc
<kees> I'll email him
<kees> [TOPIC] other stuff
<MootBot> New Topic:  other stuff
<mdz> nothing from me
<kees> we're out of time, but is there anything we should add to the agenda or quickly cover?
<kees> okay, that's it then! thanks everyone!
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:01.
<mdz> thanks kees
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-29
 * skaet waves
<jdstrand> hello
<skaet> hiya seb128,  connection ok?
 * charlie-tca waves
<seb128> hey skaet, just a focus issue in unity which leaded to close the irc channel I just joined rather than the browser tab I was aiming at ;-)
<Daviey> o/
<skaet> seb128,  coolio.  :)
<jibel> \o
<skaet> ok, looking like that time.   Welcome all.
<seb128> \o/
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-29
<skaet> .
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> Summary of the feedback session on 10.04.3 from last week can be found at:
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-29
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/10.04.3/Feedback
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/10.04.3/Feedback
<skaet> .
<skaet> Events Approaching:
<skaet> - 11.10 Alpha 3: August 4, 2011, soft freeze will be August 1 at 1200 UTC
<skaet> - 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011 at 1800 UTC
<skaet> .
<skaet> Other News:
<skaet> An unscheduled Debian Archive synch occured on July 27 as a side effect from testing new launchpad sync feature.  A summary of affected packages can be found at: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/sync110727/ .
<skaet> Please let the release team know if you can see this impacting A3 from your team's perspective.
<skaet> .
<skaet> On a much more positive note,  on July 27 Lubuntu started producing daily images and has joined the set of official flavors for 11.10.  Welcome gilir!!
<skaet> The release and QA teams are working with gilir to see if we can get the images added to the  A3 release next week.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<skaet> Bugs milestoned for oneiric alpha 3 are at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<skaet> .
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around for hands,   if no questions will head into the round table.
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> Hi all o/
<skaet> :)
<jibel> * Automated Testing progress
<jibel>   * QA Lab servers hard disks have been upgraded this week. Which means increased I/O and more tests run simultaneously.
<jibel>   * Fixed bugs/limitations of the testing framework (extraction of hardlink, selection of the right kernel for server testing, kernel SRU testing)
<jibel> * 10.04.3 Testing:
<jibel>  * Better now than never, the testing report for 10.04.3 is available at
<jibel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/LucidPoint3TestReport
<jibel> * Oneiric A3 Testing:
<jibel>   * Status of smoke test is not good.
<jibel>     * Alternate and server were broken today and yesterday (bug 817443) waiting for a new build tomorrow with the fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 817443 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "d-i based images failed to install: mount: mounting /dev on /target/dev/ failed: Invalid argument" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/817443
<jibel>     * No desktop images today (dependency issue on indicator-me) but yesterday was ok. Fix uploaded
<jibel>   * New product available for testing next week: Lubuntu
<jibel>     * Lubuntu Desktop added to the tracker
<jibel>     * Waiting for alternate builds to add them to the tracker too.
<jibel>   * Apart from that we are on track for Oneiric A3 testing.
<jibel> * Bug activity
<jibel>   * Top 5 packages with most bug reported during last week
<jibel>     * gnome-settings-daemon	(155 reports, 19.6% of buf reported against Oneiric over last week) (use /+text at the end of the url to read the report to avoid LP timeout)
<jibel>     * unity	(63 reports, 8.0%)
<jibel>     * nautilus	(31, 3.9%)
<jibel>     * lightdm	(30, 3.8%)
<jibel>     * compiz	(27, 3.4%)
<jibel>   * Top 5 dups of the week
<jibel> bug 804896	+64 dups
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804896 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:140: dequeue_pending_request: Assertion `req == dpy->xcb->pending_requests' failed." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804896
<jibel> bug 804221	+27 dups
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804221 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804221
<jibel> bug 807950	+18 dups
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807950 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu Oneiric) "zeitgeist-daemon crashed with LookupError in remove_from_connection(): <_zeitgeist.engine.remote.RemoteInterface at /org/gnome/zeitgeist/log/activity at 0xb74ee2cc> is not exported at a location matching (None,None)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807950
<jibel> bug 814619	+17 dups
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 814619 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in __strlen_sse2()" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814619
<jibel> bug 804472	+16 dups
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804472 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:221: poll_for_event: Assertion `(((long) (event_sequence) - (long) (dpy->request)) <= 0)' failed." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804472
<jibel>   * Number of crashes reported is increasing to 77% of bug reported against Oneiric (+7% over last week)
<jibel> ..
<jibel> any question ?
<skaet> Thanks jibel!   Do you want me to trigger some alternate and server rebuilds after the meeting so we can confirm 817443 fixed?
<jibel> If you wish, but cron will do the job tomorrow morning
<skaet> As you wish.
<jibel> I mean the tests are automated, so even if tomorrow is saturday, we will know if it is fixed.
<skaet> Any impact from the inadvertant debian import from your perspective (ie. more breakage showing up?)
<jibel> no visible impact.
<skaet> good to know.   Thanks.
<skaet> any other questions?
<seb128> (it's worth noting that those g-s-d issues are probably mostly apport noise happening at session closing)
<seb128> still annoying from a qa perspective but not real world usage issues
<skaet> thanks seb128 - was wondering a bit about those.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> Hi all!
<skaet> :)
<mlegris> [Week 30]
<mlegris> No report this week due to changes made to the auto login configuration and 10.04.3 certification taking up most of the week
<mlegris> We're also gearing up for the A3 testing when it hits
<mlegris> should be a fun week, Jeff will be flying up to assist us
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> * Â Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810145 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810145
<mlegris> * Â Bug #708286 - Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700R
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708286
<mlegris> We're currently updating checkbox to match the change in Oneiric, next week should be better
<mlegris> unless Oneiric changes again :)
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!  :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> We are on the trend line for our assigned work items in our blueprints. We are trying to balance reactive security with work items at this time, and are getting to our remaining work items as time allows. We are hopeful several apparmor work items that our team is responsible for will be completed in the coming weeks.
<jdstrand> Looking at the list of oneiric bugs, I don't see anything else worth highlighting.
<jdstrand> Also, I will be gone the next two release meetings, but will try to have someone stand in for me.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand!
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> (and thanks for arranging for coverage for this meeting,  just let me know who to call on ;) )
<jdstrand> skaet: sure thing
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for oneiric-alpha-3 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> We're planning one final upload of the kernel today in order to make Alpha 3.  It primarily enables support for Ralink 53xx devices, the cmd64x driver for powerpc, and some Ricoh SD card readers.  We are trending slightly above the Alpha3 burn down line but are below in our overall burndown.  The remaining Alpha3 work items are not release critical and will likely be pushed to Beta-1.
<highvoltage> ~~~/win 22
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, there is not much change since last week. status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660: looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261: bug reporter has followed up in the upstream bug report regarding the driver warning, but no response back yet.  Still not convinced the driver warning is the root cause of the usb-creator persistence issue.
<ogasawara> #754711: on a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  investigating use of cking's systemtap scripts on it.
<ogasawara> #758486: updated debug information attached, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #760131: partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #784937: investigation by kernel dev still ongoing as well as discussion with upstream.
<ogasawara> #790712: the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #791850: kernel dev able to reproduce on a CentOS test system. investigation ongoing but at least not blocking on amazon now.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara
<skaet> Any concerns about A3 next week from your team's perspective?
<ogasawara> skaet: nothing so far
 * ogasawara knocks on wood
 * skaet knocks on wood as well.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<skaet> or doko ?
<Daviey> both at DebConf?
<doko> no update frome me, and colin is likely in another session
<skaet> thanks doko.   Moving on then.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> Hello o/
<Daviey> Hello o/
<Daviey> Since the last meeting, Eucalyptus has become unseeded.  Orchestra has not yet been seeded, and will therefore not offically be part of the Alpha 3 release.  However, it would be prudent for it to be considered part of it for testing purposes (still mostly in Universe).
<Daviey> This does mean that many of the QA test cases can be removed regarding UEC.
<Daviey> Addionally, mentions of 'UEC' in Oneiric should be considered a bug.  If a reference is noticed, please help by raising a bug.
<Daviey> bug #817443, has caused the current daily to be uninstallable, which should mean that Monday we can start sniffing things.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 817443 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "d-i based images failed to install: mount: mounting /dev on /target/dev/ failed: Invalid argument" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/817443
<Daviey> I will be updating the TechnicalOverview first part of next week.
<Daviey> WI Tracking:
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> - server boot, Clint has been working on this - but has mostly been at a conference this week.  I need to sync with him, but i suspect the things which are not yet complete will not be part of A3.
<Daviey> - LXC related items have a specific sprint dedicated to it.  It is expected that many of these items will be brought back inline shortly.
<Daviey> - Openstack, there is an openstack sprint week after next to polish some issues being encountered.
<Daviey> Release Bugs:
<Daviey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> As ever, if there are bugs pertinent to server release that are not on that list, please raise them with me ASAP.
<Daviey> I will be re-targetting milestoned bugs for things we are working on as suitable, start of next week.
<Daviey> Thanks.
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> Thanks Daviey!
<Daviey> Questions?
<skaet> Are you working with jibel to remove the unnecessary bugs from the iso tracker already?
<Daviey> no. :)
<skaet> heh
<skaet> will hope that they get pulled before we start posting images.  ;)
<Daviey> We have loadsa time.
<skaet> and timezone compatible on monday morning.  :)
<skaet> Are you impacted much by the debian import?
<Daviey> Only positively :)
<Daviey> Some syncs i was waiting on were done faster.
<skaet> coolio.  :)  nice to hear some good news.
<Daviey> (from initial inspection)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - NCommander
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - NCommander
<skaet> or infinity ?
<skaet> hmm... ok, will move on for now.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalvetti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - rsalvetti
 * rsalveti waves
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalveti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - rsalveti
<skaet> sorry 'bout the typo.
<rsalveti> - Cross toolchain based on 4.6 for armel/armhf updated
<rsalveti> - Ubuntu LEB 11.07 released
<rsalveti> - Next week Linaro Connect, normal sprint and planning for the next 3 months
<rsalveti> - ARM folks there to work on armhf bringup
<rsalveti> ..
<rsalveti> np, got highlight for both
<rsalveti> :-)
<skaet> :)
<rsalveti> unfortunately no progress on the eglibc bug
<skaet> heh, just about to ask that.
<rsalveti> bug will ping folks next week during the sprint
<skaet> thanks
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> Thanks rsalveti!   any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
 * skaet looks around for Chipaca ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update - seb128
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team update - seb128
<seb128> hey
<skaet> :)
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<seb128> == Weekly summary ==
<seb128>  * No compiz or unity updates yet but dx is planning on some for monday it seems
<seb128>  * GNOME 3.1.4 landed
<seb128>  * GNOME in shape for alpha3, unity and compiz are having issues though, dx is working on those but timing is tight for alpha3 it seems
<seb128>  * Work items are behind the trend for alpha3, still work on thunderbird but nothing concerning otherwise, we can descope or delay most of the other remaining ones
<seb128>  
<seb128> == RC Bugs ==
<seb128> under investigation:
<seb128> #772873 ''[Vino does not work with compositing]'': Got feedback that the problem isn't fglrx specific; no progress this week.
<seb128> #790240 ''[at-spi needs demotion for oneiric (at-spi2-core in main)]'': blocked on upstream response about a license problem; not a release blocker, moved to a3.
<seb128> #806399 ''[Remote Desktop Viewer with Unusual Screen size]'': Reported upstream, no progress yet
<seb128> triaged/in progress:
<seb128> #795519 ''[Add back system-wide network proxy settings]'': Our ubuntu-system-service patch needs to be ported to control-center 3. No progress this week, but no blocker, just a manpower issue.
<seb128> #806064, Bug:799754 ''[lightdm needs something like gdm-set-default-session]'': Discussed with Robert and Mario Limonciello, solution is clear now; Robert is on holidays though so going to miss a3
<seb128> #806559 ''[debconf prompt about DM to use during natty->oneiric]'': Discussed with Robert, settled for a solution
<seb128> #804009 ''[clicking on the volume slider closes the SoundMenu]'': New on the radar this week; fix will beworked on by DX
<seb128> fixed since last report:
<seb128> #787694 ''[GNOME 3 System Settings: Provide stub icons for launching Ubuntu specific capplets]'':  remaining updates got rolled out
<seb128> #795046 ''[xauth broken after logging in with lightdm]'': the new version landed in oneiric
<seb128> #809890 ''[lightdm-example-gtk-greeter crashed with SIGSEGV in __strcmp_ssse3()]'': should be fixed in the new version which is in oneiric
<seb128> ..
<skaet> Thanks seb128!   When will the compiz/unity land for A3?
<seb128> check with dbarth when it's his turn
<seb128> they plan for updates on monday
<skaet> will do.
<seb128> but that's hoping that testing on tarballs that didn't get rolled yet is good
<seb128> i.e we will know once we start seeing tarballs which build and can be tested ;-)
<skaet> hmm....  thought we were supposed to get out of that monday squeeze.  fingers crossed tarballs are good.
<skaet> any other questions?
<NCommander> skaet: Bavk, house internet went blink
<skaet> NCommander,   ack,  call on you after dbarth then.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<dbarth> hi
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> ouch, too many open windows
<dbarth> status report: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth> missing news about utouch
<dbarth> but mostly a transition week before FF for us
<dbarth> still we're preparing test packages for both unity & compiz
<dbarth> to provide for the a3 milestone
<dbarth> doing a cut of what's in trunk, and reverting to a more stable version of the decorator, sans dialog style plugin
<dbarth> and with gsettings support
<dbarth> also neil is doing a cut of what's in unity's trunk with mostly crashers and leaks fixes
<dbarth> on the u-2d front, the shared panel is finally merged in, as well as the a11y support code
<dbarth> and slow but some progress at last on the stacking issue with a reproducible way to make the system fail with systematically the same event type
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth!
<skaet> Why so late for the a3 drop?
 * skaet thought it was supposed to be week before?
<dbarth> because we're late essentially
<dbarth> :-/
<skaet> dbarth, understood.   Please test that drop real well.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - NCommander
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - NCommander
<NCommander> mornign all
<skaet> :)
<NCommander> so preinstall pool handed for ARM this week while gets our server images to be fully self-contaned
<NCommander> this will be getting its first real testing during A3 next week so we'll be looking for bugs and various oddities
<NCommander> We expect our desktop, server, and netboot images for omap3/4 to be in a releasable state, and don't expect any major issues
<NCommander> As for as general ARM porting issues, ocaml remains broken and under research onto the root cause of its segfault
<NCommander> ..
 * skaet keeps fingers crossed on those omap3 images
<skaet> Thanks NCommander!
<NCommander> np
<skaet> any progress on the bugs on the agenda?
<skaet> couple are A3 milestoned, and not sure if ogra will be back in time?
<NCommander> ogra will be back on monday
<NCommander> I haven't reviewed the ARM bug list milestoned for A3, but I'll go through it later today and make adjustmnts to due dates as needed
<skaet> thanks!  :)
<skaet> any other questions for NCommander ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
 * skaet looks around for someone from Kubuntu team?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
<skaet> hmm... ok,  moving on here too
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Desktop images available today. Live session now works, but will not automatically login.
<charlie-tca> Installation must be run from the cd menu.
<charlie-tca> Alternate images fail for the bug discussed above in QA's report.
<charlie-tca> * #799238: "Xubuntu i386 and amd64 20110618 xserver abort" - should be fixed; will verify today
<charlie-tca> * #799754: "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" - inwork. A workaround has been done so lightdm is working at this time.
<charlie-tca> * #806408: "After xubuntu upgrade or installation, default session on greeter must be xubuntu" - still blocked by 799754.
<charlie-tca> Alpha3 is looking okay at this time. Images are even sized right.
<charlie-tca> All in all, Xubuntu is happy today.
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca!
 * skaet happy to hear all is going well with Xubuntu and images are fitting.  :)
<charlie-tca> as well as can be expected
<skaet> indeed.  it is A3 after all.  ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
<MootBot> New Topic:  Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
<skaet> hmm,  I suspect doko's comments above hold here too
<skaet> moving on
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> ohi
<skaet> :)
<tumbleweed> not that much to report, FTBFS are up a lot since the unexpected sync
<tumbleweed> http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html
<tumbleweed> but half of them have been dealt with already
<skaet> \o/
<tumbleweed> anyway, I'm at debconf and currently driving a dvswitch, so
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> thanks tumbleweed!
<skaet> [TOPIC] any other business/questions/comments?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business/questions/comments?
<skaet> going once
<skaet> twice
<micahg> o/
<skaet> go micahg
<skaet> heh,  just caught me... ;)
<micahg> just wanted to follow up on the e-mail I sent about libjpeg-dev, I just gave a patch to the patch pilot to revert libjpeg8 providing the virtual package
<micahg> ..
<Daviey> can we go home now? :)
<tumbleweed> oh, I seem to remember someone mentioning an unexpected transition in #ubuntu-motu (not the jpeg one), but I can't remember what it was
<skaet> Thanks micahg
<tumbleweed> I'll invistigate this evening
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> Daviey,  yeah I think its a wrap...
<Daviey> \o/
<skaet> Thank you everyone.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
<skaet> Thanks jibel, mlegris, jdstrand, ogasawara, doko,  rsalveti, Daviey, seb128, dbarth, charlie-tca, tumbleweed, micahg, NCommander
<charlie-tca> skaet: you are very welcome. Thank you for chairing the meeting.
<jibel> thanks skaet
<rsalveti> skaet: thanks!
<Daviey> thanks skaet
<seb128> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-30
<highvoltage> 1/ein 31
<treborabc> en
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-31
<nhandler> elky, jussi, topyli, tsimpson: Meeting time?
<topyli> yep
<nhandler> topyli: It looks like the other members of the IRCC all have rather long idle times, so they probably won't be around
<topyli> hrm. called jussi, no anwer
<topyli> i now he was going to help a friend with their move. i'm not sure if he remembered about this
<topyli> well we don't have quorum then
<nhandler> topyli: Should we have k1l introduce himself and ask a few questions and then vote afterwards?
 * k1l waves
<topyli> that would work
<topyli> hi k1l :)
<nhandler> k1l: Care to introduce yourself?
<k1l> hi :) yep i can start
<k1l> Hi everyone, my name ist Achim Behrens, i am 26 and from Cologne/Germany. I am studying sports sience, row in the first german rowing league and i am the junior coach at my club.
<k1l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/k1l and https://launchpad.net/~k1l
<k1l> after a false start with linux (graphic card drivers related on opensuse) i tried breezy some time lateron with a new machine and since then i am using it first in dualboot and after that on daily use.
<k1l> i got to know the german support and offtopic channel and started to help users where i could give a hand. in 2008 the german op team asked me to join their team. today i am one of 2 ops who are still active since then and was granted superop rights from the teamleader to setup flags and stuff for new ops etc.
<k1l> besides that i tried to help with some german translations in rosetta after i found myself a very strange one in a released ubuntu, but as you can see on my karma there wasnt much spare time last year.
<nhandler> k1l: When exactly did you become a "superop" in the -de channels?
<k1l> ehm, ~1 year ago. have to grep logs to find exact date
<topyli> that's exact enough i suppose :)
<k1l> :)
<nhandler> k1l: Out of curiosity, I noticed some change to your flags about 4 days ago. What was that about?
<k1l> nhandler: we decided to give the very active an known supporters the +V flag. this should motivate others to become a supporter and to show new users who to follow if there are 2 opinions what to do.
<nhandler> k1l: Ok. I also noticed that most of your translation activity was from last year (despite saying you did not have much time). Are you still doing translations?
<k1l> (we had some issues where people advised dirty workarounds  and when other supporters tried to stop that the users didnt know who to follow)
<topyli> it's rather cunning. marketing and motivation in one stroke :)
<k1l> after i found some curious translation i decided to help there. im not in a translation team i just pic the pakets which are mentioned is the german translation team to be urgent or i pic some where there are just few left to be done.
<k1l> atm i have no spare time for that because im on my diploma thesis. but after that i want to do translations. its very easy to do while you hang around in irc or sth like this :)
<topyli> k1l: you're heavy on loco contributions, including the -de channels. how come you decided to join the members through irc contributions, not through the regional council?
<k1l> actually i was at last americas membership board meeting. but they told me to come here because they couldnt rate my contribution on the irc and i had no testimonials.
<topyli> well yes, your irc contributions surely dominate there
<k1l> (because of my training schedule i couldnt participate in the emea board meeting so far)
<topyli> k1l: i don't think we have any more questions. do you want to add something yourself?
<k1l> no, i think i said all i wanted.
<topyli> alright. we don't have quorum so we can't vote and make the actual desicion. i hope it's ok if we vote as soon as we can and let you know by email?
<k1l> yep, thats ok for me. i know how busy rl can be :)
<topyli> stupid rl
<topyli> i'll just say a word about the other agenda item, namely the good old eir-on-#ubuntu thing
<topyli> there have been no slackers, and it looks like we hope to start testing in #ubuntu. we won't do that without announcement of course
<topyli> i think that ends the meeting
<topyli> k1l: thanks for coming and presenting well, we'll be in touch ASAP
<k1l> topyli: thank you, too. for your time.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-23
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<mdeslaur> o/
<mdeslaur> \o
<mdeslaur> o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 23 18:02:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I will actually not have a short week this week :)
<jdstrand> I'm on communuity
<jdstrand> am patch piloting today
<jdstrand> have some pending updates
<jdstrand> and will be reviewing webkit maintenance a bit
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I've got a libexif update coming out in a few minutes
<mdeslaur> and have an embargoed issue (or two) that I need to work on this week
<mdeslaur> and I've worked on "uvt", the python replacement for vmtools
<sbeattie> \o/
<mdeslaur> I still have a couple of commands to implement before marking off the work item
<mdeslaur> I should be done with them today or tomorrow
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll pick some CVEs in the list
<mdeslaur> we have a _lot_ of open CVEs, so we need to be picking stuff up
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I've currently working on an embargoed issue
<sbeattie> I'm also poking at a possible regression from the openjdk backports I did around JNI in lucid (LP: #1027122)
<sbeattie> jjohansen handed me what he had for dbus/apparmor, so I'll be poking at that as well
<sbeattie> otherwise, I'll try to pick up a CVE or two as well
<sbeattie> that's all I've got; micahg, you're up
<micahg> This week I'm starting the staged rollout of webkit updates to the stable releases, tomorrow, precise-proposed will get 1.8.1 and if there aren't any significant increases in crashes, I'll push that to everyone late Thursday (or Monday if people think that's better)
<jdstrand> \o/
<micahg> with the rest of the releases hopefully getting to their respective -proposed repo by the end of next week
 * jdstrand guesses monday would be best. it is already late so don't cause potential extra work over the weekend
<micahg> ok
<micahg> that's basically it aside from watching for any issues with the Mozilla updates (have been skimming the bugmail to notify tyhicks if need be), all seems fine
<jdstrand> tyhicks: you're up
<micahg> oh, right, and trying to process all the mail about thunderbird's future, I hope to have something drafted over the next week or 2
<micahg> jdstrand: he's off today :)
<jdstrand> ah
<jdstrand> jjohansen: you're up
<jdstrand> tyhicks: nm
<jdstrand> bzr diff
<jdstrand> meh
<jjohansen> so I need to finish getting dbus stuff to sbeattie, I actually didn't give him the kernel bits yet, and the parser bits don't apply (though I may let him have a crack at fixing that)
<jjohansen> I have some more kernel QRT fallout to look at this week, not sure what it is yet just saw the request (/me is suspecting more arm failures)
 * jjohansen needs to finish up on the rcu locking rework to fix deadlocking issues in the current apparmor patchset so I can push those out to the list
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is that due to upstream churn?
 * jdstrand assumes so
<jjohansen> jdstrand: no, its due to us doing more and being forced to do GFP_KERNEL allocations indirectly in places where locks are held.  This can cause sleeping at those points but with the way our locking works and the LSM hooks this effectively blocks all execs and several other operations causing system deadlocks
<jdstrand> jjohansen: oh, so this affects current kernels?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: no just the dev stuff
<jdstrand> jjohansen: part of getting rid of the compat work?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: not just the compat, its needed for stacking and labeling too
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> jjohansen: anything else?
<jjohansen> basically an extra prereq
<jjohansen> hrmm well I plan to review the R stuff floated on the list
<jjohansen> oh and I have some 3.5 testing
 * jjohansen pushed the compat patches for 3.5 but hasn't actually built or tested against upstream 3.5
<jjohansen> but that is minor
<jjohansen> jdstrand: thats it back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nusoap.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phppgadmin.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libfile-temp-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mplayer2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tangerine.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, jjohansen: thanks
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 23 18:32:58 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-23-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-23-18.02.html
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks
 * kees waves
 * stgraber waves
 * kees looks around for mdz
<mdz> sorry, I thought I was in -meeting but I was only in -devel
<mdz> who's here for TB?
<kees> o/
 * stgraber waves
<mdz> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 23 21:14:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is mdz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<mdz> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<mdz> soren to continue brainstorm review
<mdz> I have no idea about this and soren doesn't seem to be around. anyone know?
<mdz> kees to ping LP advocate about LP: #252368
<kees> soren's task: I haven't seen any email about it, so I assume it's continuing
<kees> I've asked, and it's in limbo.
<kees> there doesn't seem to be a sensible way to unlimbo it, either.
<kees> already advocated bugs aren't seeing any attention, so it's unlikely this one will either.
<mdz> so you asked the advocate about it, and they said there's nothing they can do?
<kees> basically, yes.
<mdz> that sounds...less than ideal
<mdz> is there an escalation path?
<kees> the LP team says that to fix bugs, people should do it themselves.
<kees> that's not clear.
<kees> I'll continue the discussion.
<mdz> I could raise it with debian-derivatives
<kees> that might work too
<mdz> I'm not sure what the barrier to entry is like these days for LP development
<mdz> but this sounds pretty non-trivial to implement
<kees> yeah
<kees> sounds like LP development has stopped?
<kees> even the stakeholders don't know where to escalate to.
<mdz> I'll send an email about it
<mdz> but it sounds like there's no next action for this particular bug
<stgraber> yeah, LP is in maintenance-only mode... any feature work should be done outside of the LP team, though one LP squad is usually available for code reviews and helping people contribute
<Daviey> Is this really a pressing matter ?
<mdz> kees, can you put a comment on the bug with the latest update?
<kees> sure
<mdz> Daviey, it is pressing enough to warrant some action within 4 years :-)
<mdz> its 4th anniversary is coming up
<Daviey> It seems to me that the barrier of creating a LP account is so low, that the bother to implement this is crazy use of resources.
<mdz> Daviey, that would be a reasonable position for the Launchpad project to take
<mdz> and if they took that position, I think we would probably accept it
<mdz> but that's a different thing from just letting the request sit
<mdz> anyway, moving on
<Daviey> right
<mdz> #topic Mythbuntu LTS
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Mythbuntu LTS
<mdz> it looks like this got three +1s on the mailing list
<mdz> and no opposition
<Daviey> flacoste,mrevell or cztab is probably the escalation path,
<mdz> so I think it's done
<mdz> I'm not sure who put it on the agenda
<mdz> I think it just needs a rubber stamp
<czajkowski> Daviey: sup
<mdz> unless anyone disagrees, I'll follow up to the mailing list and stamp it
<mdz> czajkowski, do you have a highlight for cztab? :-)
<mdz> kees, stgraber, you OK with that?
<czajkowski> mdz: oddly enough I do :)
<stgraber> mdz: I'm fine with that
<mdz> ok
<mdz> #topic MRE request for VLC (bdrung)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MRE request for VLC (bdrung)
<mdz> bdrung, hi
<kees> (/me is fine too)
<ScottK> Daviey: When it's come up, it was important to a number of DD's.  It's socially important in our relationships with our primary upstream.  Technically less so.
<ScottK> (sorry, missed the discussion earlier)
<mdz> bdrung, are you there?
<mdz> we'll skip ahead
<mdz> #topic Mesa provisional MRE
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Mesa provisional MRE
<mdz> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-July/001352.html
<mdz> this is from RAOF
<bdrung> mdz: hi
<mdz> bdrung, hi, we'll come back to your topic in a moment
<mdz> kees, stgraber, thoughts on the Mesa request?
<kees> if piglet can get run on several HW types, I'd be happy with the MRE
<kees> (run and pass, that is)
<stgraber> quickly reading the e-mail again, I remember thinking it was a reasonable testing plan
<mdz> yes, I think the important thing is that the regression test suite passes, and running it in the proper environment (where that's not the buildd) is a no-brainer
<mdz> OK, I'll follow up and ack it
<mdz> #topic  MRE request for VLC (bdrung)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MRE request for VLC (bdrung)
<stgraber> right, +1 from me with the plan that the regression test runs on all the hardware combination in the lab
<mdz> bdrung, go ahead
<bdrung> VLC has a maintenance branch (currently 2.0.x) where they mainly apply bug fixes
<bdrung> i like to get a MRE that allows getting new 2.0.x versions into precise
<mdz> bdrung, what's the regression testing story?
<bdrung> the 2.0.2 release closes 9 Launchpad bugs and many more bugs that were not reported on Launchpad
<kees> wow, 9.
<bdrung> kees: IIRC the 1.1.0 release held the record
<kees> I bet :)
<bdrung> mdz: the good story: we have a daily PPA for the upstream maintenance branch
<bdrung> the bad story: the package has a test suite that is currently not run on compile time (it succeeds locally, but one test fails in the chroot)
<bdrung> the test suite is very small and does not cover much of the program
<kees> can that test be removed from the suite for the builds? it would be nice to have those tests work in the build
<kees> oh
<mdz> is the failure a regression, or has it failed before?
<mdz> ah
<mdz> so the test suite is not very relevant
<mdz> bdrung, you mentioned the branch includes "mainly" bug fixes...how "mainly"? :-)
<mdz> an MRE would usually imply that their policy is at least as strict as ours
<bdrung> upstream makes sure that they keep their ABI stable in their maintenance branch
<bdrung> they apply bug fixes, update translations, add new translations
<kees> that seems fine
<mdz> yes
<bdrung> their NEWS files only states fixes
<mdz> bdrung, has it been SRUd many times before?
<bdrung> the updated libraries and Mac OS changes are irrelevant for us
<bdrung> mdz: at least once
<mdz> what's the rationale for a standing exception, as opposed to just doing an SRU for 2.0.2?
<bdrung> the maintenance branch get security fixes too and it will fix more bugs
<kees> seems like a win to me. have there been reports of regressions in past SRUs?
<bdrung> i like to get all 2.0.x releases into precise to have a version with no security hole and less bugs
<bdrung> kees: i can't remember a regression
<mdz> without a regression testing plan/suite, there is certainly a higher risk of regressions
<mdz> but the impact of a regression in vlc is smaller than in many other packages
<mdz> such as, say, Mesa :-)
<kees> right
<bdrung> oh wait. there was a pulseaudio output plugin change that causes some trouble
<bdrung> this change revealed some pulseaudio/driver bugs IIRC
<mdz> were we able to fix the regression promptly?
<mdz> or did we have to roll back the whole thing?
<bdrung> i think it was bug #805807
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805807 in vlc (Ubuntu Natty) "Sound is not synchronised with the video" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805807
<mdz> that looks like it's...still open in natty?
<mdz> did we regress it and then not fix  the regression?
<bdrung> no, it was an upstream regression from one release to another.
<mdz> I don't follow
<bdrung> the initial problem was bug #743323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 743323 in vlc (Ubuntu Natty) "vlc memory leak" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743323
<mdz> the bug reads like a regression in a stable update
<mdz> so far it seems like in favor we have: relatively low impact package, bugfix-only branch
<bdrung> yes, seems so
<mdz> and against: not much in the way of regression testing
<mdz> stgraber, kees, thoughts?
<kees> I would be happy to grant a provisional MRE
<bdrung> the pulseaudio plugin was rewritten to fix the memory leak, introduces a regression and was later fixed
<kees> if the regression stuff repeats, then I'm not sure we can safely do MREs on VLC, even though it fixes so much stuff
<kees> and if regressions do get fixed, that's a good sign.
<stgraber> provisional sounds reasonable, we can see how ti goes after we get one or two upstream point release in. If we get any regression, we might have to consider more QA before pushing something to updates
<mdz> if I were considering whether it makes sense to SRU 2.0.2, I would probably say yes, go for it, and if it regresses, we can just roll it back
<mdz> but since I'm supposed to consider whether it should get a standing exception, I'm not so sure
<bdrung> 1.1.10 contained the fix and 1.1.12 fixes the regressions
<Daviey> wow. push something out, and roll back if it regresses? O_o
<Daviey> As an emergency, great.. but as a /plan/?
<mdz> Daviey, I'm open to other opinions
<mdz> but I don't think it makes sense to apply a blanket approach to all packages
<mdz> the fallout from regressions is very severe in some cases, and very little in others
<mdz> if the sound in VLC is out of sync for a few days, that's a pretty limited impact
<mdz> compared to, say, a graphics driver hang
<bdrung> i got two bug reports against the daily-stable PPA package that i could fix (otherwise these bugs could have entered the archive later)
<mdz> my only other idea would be to come up with a manual regression testing plan
<mdz> which covers the most common/important functionality
<mdz> play some streams in various formats, check that it works as expected, that sort of thing
<bdrung> i do test the package with some video files, but that do not cover much of vlc
<mdz> interesting that it didn't catch the audio sync issue
<bdrung> it was connected to the underlying hardware
<mdz> ah
<bdrung> only some soundcards triggered it
<mdz> the policy is that a provisional MRE can be approved by any TB member
<mdz> and two have expressed support, so I think there's nothing more to discuss on this specific request
<bdrung> what should be done if a new upstream release fixes security bugs?
<mdz> I defer to the security team on that
<mdz> anything else on this topic before we move on? we're out of time
<bdrung> get it SRUed and then copied to -security or a separate fix for -security?
<ScottK> bdrung: IME ask the security team and they'll tell you.
<bdrung> k
<mdz> #topic stable updates exception policy
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: stable updates exception policy
<LordOfTime> bdrung:  you can ask security questions to the security team in #ubuntu-hardened if you want, they might be able to answer
<LordOfTime> (sorry for butting in )
<mdz> based in part on the discussions in this meeting, I'd like to propose a small clarification
<mdz> replace:
<mdz>   * regression tests are enabled in the package's build
<mdz> with:
<mdz>   * regression tests are always run on the update before it is released (e.g. by being enabled in the package's build)
<mdz> kees, stgraber, OK with that?
<ScottK> That's not always feasible.
<ScottK> There are packages that have tests that require a network.
<mdz> ScottK, it's a noop for that case
<mdz> this is only broadening the criteria, not restricting them further
<stgraber> mdz: +1
 * kees nods
<ScottK> OK.
<kees> +1
<mdz> done
<mdz> #topic closing business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: closing business
<mdz> who's next for chair? soren?
<ScottK> mdz: I understand now.  I read it backwards.  Thanks.
<kees> I think so, yes. can you email him to remind him?
<kees> (since he's not here?)
<mdz> will do
<mdz> thanks all
<mdz> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 23 22:05:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-23-21.14.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-23-21.14.html
<kees> thanks mdz!
<stgraber> thanks mdz!
<ScottK> Isn't that how you always get volunteered for stuff (by missing the meeting)?
<TheLordOfTime> mdz:  ScottK:  sorry for butting in right at the end with pointing bdrung to the security team's channel, i assumed he wanted fast answers, so i directed him there :)
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: Most Ubuntu developers know about that already, but he's sure to now.
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  indeed, just wanted to affirm :)
<TheLordOfTime> (in case some didnt :P)
 * TheLordOfTime returns to what he was originally doing, figuring out why Launchpad doesn't like him today
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-24
<zul> so i guess i have the fortune of running this meeting today
<m_3> whoohoo
<arosales> :-)
<zul> yay
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 24 16:00:32 2012 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<zul> so welcome to the server team meeting
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> o/
<zul> there are two from last meeting
<zul> arosales and daviey to work on trend line reset * everyone update their blueprint status
<arosales> zul: in progress
<zul> so first point: arosales and daviey to work on trend line reset
<zul> okies
<zul> and everybody should be updating their blueprints
<arosales> I haven't got the trend line reset, but working on getting the right level for topics
<zul> so next
<smoser> o/
<zul> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Quantal Development
<zul> arosales/Daviey: ^^^
<arosales> I have a few blueprint items to go over
<arosales> We are on week 13/25 (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule) approaching the halfway mark and A3 this Thursday.
<arosales> half way, shocked me too
<zul> it goes by quick
<arosales> so we still have a few blueprints that are at 0% or near that
<arosales> given some work happens rapidly at the end I wanted to still touch base on a couple of those
<arosales> for the ARM ones @ 0% as rbasak is out I pined cmagina
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-benchmark-and-performance
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-arm-server-storage-testing
<arosales> Juju related
<arosales> SpamapS, m_3: any work items in progress here besides jitsu watch?
<arosales> for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<arosales> I don't think SpamapS is here atm, so may have to lean on m_3
<m_3> arosales: not yet no... maybe making charmtester work for other providers counts here
<arosales> and have some logs for Spamaps to catch up on
<m_3> but not specifically tested against arm yet
<arosales> m_3:  ok thanks
<arosales> m_3: SpamapS:  work items for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charms-release-policy are mostly around post discussion. Is this a mailing list discussion, or something else?
<m_3> arosales: it's probably a "make the change and then deal with the fallout" item.. I _think_ this is on track with milestone freezes
<arosales> m_3:  for unit testing that may be applicable against different providers
<arosales> m_3:  ok thanks.
<arosales> and one more juju related bp
<arosales> m_3: any updates on charm best practices progress, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices
<arosales> Ursinha: any updates on reports for bug triage process for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bug-triage-review
<m_3> arosales: more jitsu to add to best practices :)
<arosales> m_3:  lots of todos for that one still
<arosales> may need to ping jcastro nad possible hazmat
<arosales> smoser and utlemming: any update on cloud-utils https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-init-utils
<m_3> arosales: I'll take a look and update this week
<arosales> m_3: thanks, be good to get a better grasp on the juju related items for this cycle.
<smoser> not a lot of updates there.
<arosales> smoser and utlemming: any update on cloud-utils https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-init-utils
<arosales> sorry, duplicate
<arosales> smoser since rbasak is out I think he was trying to set up a proof of concept for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-apt-improvements any other updates?
<smoser> arosales, he has spent time on that.
<smoser> and its in reasonable shape.
<smoser> i'm not sure of tatus byhond that. other than we have the general plan laid out and even mostly agreed to
<arosales> ok, I think rbasak was working on testing the prof of concept and getting feedback into the bug.
<arosales> will catch up on that with rbasak returns
<arosales> utlemming: are the RT tickets for the provisioning complete for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-push-to-the-clouds
<utlemming> arosales: more or less...I'm going full steam on the new build server now
<utlemming> arosales: I am still waiting on the public Jenkins instance for pushing results out.
<arosales> utlemming: ok, thanks
<arosales> I'll follow up with Ursinha`about reports for bug triage. I think were were targeting A3 for that to be complete.
<jamespage> utlemming, presumably thats not blocking this work tho?
<utlemming> jamespage: no...its not
<jamespage> arosales, yes - but that was a nominal date I chose.
<arosales> jamespage: gotcha, we can probably slip that a bit. I know Ursinha` has been doing a lot of work on her gravity reports
<arosales> zul: onto bugs?
<jamespage> arosales, which probably add more long term value anyway...
<arosales> yup
<zul> arosales: ye
<arosales> bug 1014005
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014005 in ipxe (Ubuntu) "Please generate and include ipxe.dsk to the ipxe binary package" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014005
<arosales> wishlist still it looks like
<arosales> bug 1023066
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023066 in quantum (Ubuntu) "python-quantum fails to install due to python syntax errors" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023066
<zul> arosales: ill fixe that up
<arosales> adam_g: targeting A3?
<arosales> zul: thanks
<arosales> another quantum bug 1025203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025203 in quantum (Ubuntu) "Trying to overwrite '/etc/quantum/plugins/openvswitch/ovs_quantum_plugin.ini', which is also in package quantum-server" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025203
<zul> another one for me i guess
<arosales> zul: thanks again :-)
<arosales> zul: another quantum
<arosales> j/k
<arosales> cobbler
<arosales> :-)
<zul> stop picking on me! :)
<arosales> bug 858867
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 858867 in cobbler (Ubuntu Quantal) "XMLRPC allows unauthed users access to various methods (which it shouldn't) " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858867
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> I second smoser's opinion on this bug
<jamespage> its never going to be fixed - so please can we just 'Won't Fix' it
<jamespage> upstream don't think its a bug
<jamespage> any opinions?
<arosales> jamespage: any other place we should document this besides the bug?
<zul> README.Debian perhaps
<jamespage> I don't think so
<jamespage> zul, a warning sort of statement?
<zul> jamespage: yeah
<jamespage> zul, I guess that makes sense
<zul> jamespage: one liner is good enough
<jamespage> roaksoax, would you be OK todo that for quantal?
<jamespage> we don't need to fix in released version IMHO
<roaksoax> jamespage: +1
<jamespage> roaksoax, ta
<arosales> roaksoax: thanks
<zul> anything else?
<arosales> back to picking on zul
<arosales> bug 1020313
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020313 in horizon (Ubuntu) "openstack-dashboard hijacks the web root" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020313
<zul> yeah still on my radar
<arosales> thanks
<arosales> and lastly
<arosales> bug 844995
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844995 in python-couchdb (Ubuntu) "Drop support for couchdb related packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844995
<zul> i should probably care about that one
<zul> arosales: anything else?
<arosales> thats it for http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<arosales> couchdb may need for us to keep an eye out
<zul> okies
<arosales> zul and two FTBFS
<arosales> bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017113
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017113 in juju (Ubuntu) "Juju test suite fails sporadically due to low timeouts" [Medium,Triaged]
<arosales> and bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/935516
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 935516 in genshi (Ubuntu Quantal) "genshi version 0.6-2 FTBFS on i386 in precise" [High,Triaged]
<zul> in precise?
<Daviey> blocked on upstream
<arosales> yes, it appears so
<arosales> m_3:  and you follow up with hazmat on bug 1017113?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017113 in juju (Ubuntu) "Juju test suite fails sporadically due to low timeouts" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017113
<arosales> zul, ok  back to you
<m_3> arosales: sure
<zul> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<arosales> m_3:  thanks
<zul> jamespage/smoser: you are up
<jamespage> zul, ta
<jamespage> broadley good; lets focus on a few stuck bugs for 12.04.1
<jamespage> bug 920197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 920197 in python-webob (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] webob last stable version 1.1.1 response header bug" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/920197
<jamespage> zul: any progress on this one?
<zul> arrrgh
<jamespage> as you are waiting for NEW queue reviews :-)
<zul> will do so right after the meeting
<jamespage> ta
<zul> or meetings
<jamespage> bug 1006898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006898 in dnsmasq (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] dnsmasq fails at leasing issues when using vlan mode" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006898
 * jamespage kicks zul again
<zul> *sigh*
<jamespage> but he's not had it for long
<jamespage> bug 966577 and bug 1006553
<adam_g>  /win 9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966577 in juju (Ubuntu Precise) "add explicit egress 'owner' rule on non-bootstrapping nodes to require root access to zookeeper" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966577
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006553 in juju "local provider machine agent uses 100% CPU after host reboot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006553
<jamespage> hmm - no SpamapS - will catch him later
<jamespage> and finally bug 1014872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014872 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "no debug symbols for mysql-server" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014872
<jamespage> which really needs a volunteer to investigate and resolve
<jamespage> anyone?
<jamespage> ...
 * jamespage will find someone
<jamespage> other than that everything else assigned to individuals on the in-flight list is either pending acceptance into -proposed
<jamespage> or pending verification - please do feel free to verify something if you have the time.
<jamespage> other than any questions thats me done....
<zul> okies
<adam_g> jamespage: not sure how to get it in your radar, but Bug #1025544  currently blocks nova folsom on P.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025544 in sqlalchemy (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] schema changes using sqlalchemy's sqlite dialect can fail when using reflection" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025544
<arosales> jamespage: then not too shabby then for 12.04.1
<adam_g> jamespage: just got the SRU proposed yesterday, so..
<jamespage> adam_g, great - we probably should add that to the server package list
<jamespage> I'll do that
<zul> anything else?
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> any events coming up?
<arosales> OSCON went well :-)  next on the list is CloudOpen 29-31 August, spamaps there.
<zul> uds coming up soon :)
<m_3> cool videos of the cloud migration coming soon
<zul> it will be here soon enough
<jamespage> Openstack Meetup in London tomorrow - Daviey and I will be there
<arosales> m_3: are you still attending RubyConf?
<m_3> texas linux fest next week
<m_3> arosales: not planned atm... texas linuxfest, and then puppetconf if my talk gets greenlighted
<arosales> m_3: ok. I see that is Nov 1-3 too
<m_3> yeah, it overlapped with something more important iirc
 * arosales updates the juju events wiki page
<zul> m_3: traveling salesman
<m_3> I know
<m_3> totally
<zul> with the bibles or knives
<arosales> juju, so both
<m_3> traveling "bite my nails because mark likes to do live demos" guy
<zul> lol
<zul> anytthing else?
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hi hggdh or random qa person
<zul> anything qa relevant
<zul> iso should be testing...ah that brings me back
<zul> if not
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<zul> hi smb
<smb> hia
<smb> I attended the kernel-team spring in Portland last week. Apart from a, err, minor panic situation for Oneric 32bit cloud-images, I was persuading to fix the Xen package for Precise. The crash kernel issues are now at least understood (big initrd and wasting memory in any way is not well taken). Hopefully the kernel-part for Qunatal will make progress upstream. Otherwise, are there questions?
<smb> ..
<zul> any other questions?
<utlemming> for the panic situation
<utlemming> the good news is that both QA and Ubuntu Server are now tracking -proposed in automated testing to make sure we don't have to panic in the future.
<zul> cool beans
<arosales> utlemming: nice \o/
<utlemming> for those interested, we have an incident report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IncidentReports/2012-07-19-oneiric-kernel-regression-kills-EC2-instances
<zul> yay xen!
<zul> i love it
<smb> Always a source of joy... :)
<zul> and male pattern baldness
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<zul> can we skip this part since rbasak is on holiday
<zul> or does anyone have any arm related stuff?
<zul> if you want to try arm images on openstack you can do so through trystack.org now
<jamespage> that works quite well - alot faster than my pandaboard
<zul> i should hope so
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<zul> anything people want to talk about
<zul> if not
<arosales> Call for testing
<arosales> server on A3
<jamespage> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2012-July/006359.html
<arosales> jamespage: ah, thank you
<arosales> zul: seems like we can wrap it up then
<zul> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<zul> same bat channel same bat place
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 24 16:46:04 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-24-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-24-16.00.html
<arosales> thanks for chair'ing zul
<jamespage> \o/
<Daviey> super
<ogasawara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 24 17:02:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is ogasawara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ogasawara> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting. ##
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<ogasawara> # Meeting Etiquette
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<ogasawara> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<ogasawara> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<herton> o/
<arges> o/
<henrix> o/
<bjf> o/
<smb> \o
<sforshee> o/
<rtg> o/
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: porting of the tilt-3.4 TI branch [1] on top of our 3.5 master kernel continues.
<ppisati> So far i handled 515 out of ~1700 patches: 459 were applied, 15 were left for later consideration and 50 were already found upstream.
<ppisati> To see the resulting kernel, go here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ppisati/ubuntu-quantal.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ti-omap4-tilt-34-on-35
<ppisati> [1]: http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/andygreen/kernel-tilt.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/tilt-3.4
<ppisati> ..
<ogasawara> rsalveti: ^^ just fyi
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalusbury)
<ogasawara> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ..
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalusbury)
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-quantal-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 1 work item ||
<rsalveti> ogasawara: thanks
<ogasawara> || bjf         || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || cooloney    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Alpha-3 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have recently rebased the Quantal kernel to the latest v3.5 final
<ogasawara> upstream kernel and have uploaded.  This has also been uploaded to the
<ogasawara> q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel
<ogasawara> in 12.04.  We welcome any early adopters to please install, test, and
<ogasawara> let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs July 26 - Alpha 3 (~2 days)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<sconklin> == 2012-07-24 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 95 CVEs on our radar, with two CVEs retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (July 24):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Preparation; 2 CVEs; (16 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty - In Preparation; 2 CVEs; (5 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Preparation; 2 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (101 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Preparation; 3 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (105 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> The week of Sept. 6 is the week the last Natty kernel will be built.
<henrix> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<ogasawara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 24 17:07:43 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-24-17.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-24-17.02.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-25
<head_victim> Evening all, Membership board meeting about to begin
<cjohnston> morning
<Pendulum> hiya :)
<cyphermox> hey
<micahg> hi
<cyphermox> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 25 12:03:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for July 25, 2012. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<cyphermox> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<cyphermox> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<cyphermox> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<cyphermox> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<cyphermox> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cyphermox> #voters cyphermox Pendulum head_victim micahg Destine
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum cyphermox head_victim micahg
<cyphermox> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<cyphermox> #subtopic Howard Chan
<cyphermox> #link https://launchpad.net/~smartboyhw
<cyphermox> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/smartboyhw
<cyphermox> smartboyhw: please introduce yourself :)
<cyphermox> smartboyhw: you around?
<head_victim> Hmm appears absent
<cyphermox> yup
<Destine> any other applicant?
<cyphermox> s9iper1 doesn't appear to be on either, sadly
<smartboyhw> Hi
<smartboyhw> Sorry, can't get it work
<head_victim> Working now :)
<smartboyhw> I'm a Ubuntu tester, helped in Alpha 2 and Daily Builds, I'm a real advanced user of Ubuntu, so Hello
<Destine> smartboyhw, good, nice to meet you.
<smartboyhw> When I mean Alpha 2 builds I mean 12.10
<Destine> smartboyhw, yes, please go on.
<smartboyhw> What should I say, then
<smartboyhw> I am really looking forward to help the Ubuntu community
<smartboyhw> Testing new builds and get the ISO's free of bugs
<head_victim> smartboyhw: so my first question, how long have you been testing Ubuntu for and what aspect of testing have your contributed to?
<head_victim> Your LP profile doesn't show a lot of bug activity so curious to learn more about testing
<smartboyhw> I've been testing it since the first builds of 12.10 and I test about ISOs
<smartboyhw> Try to see if there's any bug
<smartboyhw> In the ISO QA Tracker
<smartboyhw> I can provide a email that proves I
<Destine> smartboyhw, i don't really see any bugs you reported through LP.
<smartboyhw> The problem is, I don't find any bugs
<smartboyhw> Strange, but I always got it no problem
<Destine> smartboyhw, so despite the testing, what else do you do to contribute?
<smartboyhw> I translated a few lines for Ubuntu
<smartboyhw> Got some Karma
<smartboyhw> In Traditional Chinese (Hong Kong)
<head_victim> smartboyhw: is there anyone in the testing community that can vouch for your "significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu" as required by the membership application?
<smartboyhw> Here I don't know, but Nicholas Skaggs, the leader of ubuntu iso testing, ca n prove
<smartboyhw> I have an e-mail
<smartboyhw> Want that?
<Destine> smartboyhw, can you please invite him here?
<cyphermox> balloons: ?
<cyphermox> ^
<smartboyhw> Er, I don't know, I need to send an e-mail
<smartboyhw> Which he may not see till sometime
<smartboyhw> Maybe I really should send the email that proved I've contributed in the ISO testing of 12.10 Alpha 2
<smartboyhw> To you guys
<Destine> smartboyhw, we lookd for sustained contributions, no single email can prove that.
<head_victim> smartboyhw: the problem we have is without being involved in QA ourselves we have no way to judge your contribution. We're thinking we should ask you to reapply next month with some signed testimonials of other QA testors that could state your level and length of involvement.
<smartboyhw> WHAT???
<Pendulum> smartboyhw: as a guideline, we generally look for a minimum 6 month involvement
<Pendulum> smartboyhw: why do you want to be an Ubuntu member?
<smartboyhw> I want to contribute more to the community
<smartboyhw> Helping out
<Destine> smartboyhw, ubuntu member is a reward.
<smartboyhw> And I really wish to be a good Ubuntu comtributor
<cyphermox> smartboyhw: What we're looking for is really *sustained and significant* contribution to Ubuntu; which is given as a kind of recognition of having done things in the community; you don't need it to contribute :)
<head_victim> smartboyhw: Ubuntu membership is recognition of significant and sustained contributions, it's not permission to contribute. The contribution comes first.
<smartboyhw> I know that is a reward
<Destine> smartboyhw, to those who have already contributed enough.
<smartboyhw> I think I had
<Destine> smartboyhw, you did contribute, but not enough.
<smartboyhw> Why?
<cyphermox> smartboyhw: we think you should come back once you've done a bit more; and it would help a lot if you also had people who can vouch for what you
<cyphermox> you've done
<cyphermox> also, have you spoken and gotten involved with a LoCo team in your location?
<smartboyhw> I have applied to join, but I think the team's dead
<Pendulum> smartboyhw: we think you're doing good contributions, but you haven't being doing work for a sustained time period. We also look for testimonials from people you've worked with.
<cyphermox> fair enough
<smartboyhw> The HongKong LoCo Team
<cyphermox> smartboyhw: reviving the team is one of the things you might want to try.
<smartboyhw> Yeah, but I didn't get apporval to join from the leader
<smartboyhw> So I can't revive
<smartboyhw> I want to, but....
<smartboyhw> The team leader didn't reply
<Destine> smartboyhw, you might want to contact other members in the LoCo.
<smartboyhw> Requested to join in Launchpad
<cyphermox> I see
<smartboyhw> Poor me, I'm crying now
<smartboyhw> No one to support me, no Loco Team
<cyphermox> have you only done the request to join or have you also sent an email, they might have missed the launchpad email
<Pendulum> smartboyhw: if you really can't find the people who are already members of the LoCo, you may want to talk to the LoCo Council to see if they can help you at all.
<smartboyhw> Okay, thanks
<cyphermox> it's all good -- we appreciate the work you've done; we just think you should keep doing more and come back in a little while
<smartboyhw> The question: How little while?
<Destine> smartboyhw, maybe you can send me a email, i happen to know people who are involved in HK.
<smartboyhw> What's your e-mail?
<cyphermox> it depends. keep working on ISO testing for the release, then after release may be a good time; for instance if other iso testers or Nicholas can vouch for the work.
<smartboyhw> Yeah, I'll be back after Final release
<smartboyhw> Wait for me
<smartboyhw> I failed
<cyphermox> just don't hesitate to contribute where you can; iso testing isn't necessarily the only thing you may want to touch :)
<Destine> smartboyhw, you are always welcome.
<cyphermox> asking for help and asking people to write testimonials on your wiki page is always good, too
<smartboyhw> Yeah, if Nicholas didn't get me a testimonial, I'll be dead
<head_victim> smartboyhw: I had a bit of alook around, you might be able to join in with some locals - http://ubuntu.opensource.hk/
<cyphermox> We still don't have any other applicants online, so let's wrap this up.
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 25 12:35:18 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-25-12.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-25-12.03.html
<smartboyhw> leave
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
 * barry o/
 * xnox is here =)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 25 15:01:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> barry slangasek infinity stgraber xnox ogra doko jodh cjwatson ev bdmurray stokachu
<barry> win!
<barry> bug 1020980; worked a bit on the pykde4 port for py3; mostly working on the xapian py3 port using both cython and swig.  not going so well - fighting many problems at all layers.  todo: probably time to move on.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020980 in Software Updater "update-manager API change breaks apturl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020980
<slangasek>  * last week: lots of work on UEFI at the plugfest
<slangasek>  * this week: new upload of efilinux package, fixing bugs identified through UEFI interop testing; playing email catchup; A3 steering
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> no infinity, so stgraber:
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - updated python binding for getkeys(), made set_config_item and get_config_item more clever
<stgraber>  - implemented network config API (Container.network[index].key)
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Submitted IPv6 testing scripts to QA
<stgraber>  - Found an isc-dhcp bug during alpha3 testing (apparmor preventing isc-dhcp-server from starting), fixed in time for a3
<stgraber> - 12.04.1
<stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
<stgraber>  - Went through all the targeted/milestoned bugs for 12.04.1, updated status based on comments and queue status.
<stgraber>  - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
<stgraber>  - Uploaded a few more SRUs for bugs targeted to the point release (libxslt, sysvinit, krb5, resolvconf)
<stgraber> - Image based system
<stgraber>  - Started working on a proof of concept for foundations-q-image-based-updates
<stgraber> - Queuebot
<stgraber>  - Implemented packageset tracking in queuebot.
<stgraber>  - Implemented per-channel filters, allowing packageset/queue/tracker notifications for flavours to be sent to their channel.
<stgraber>  - Some performance and resource consumption improvements.
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Alpha 3
<stgraber>  - Bugfixes to sru-report to stop crashing on private bugs.
<stgraber>  - Some ARB app review, the app showdown made the ARB New queue reach 140 packages... Still 50 to review...
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Continue the work on 12.04.1.
<stgraber>  - Get a working proof of concept for foundations-q-image-based-updates allowing booting from multiple wubi images with a shared /home.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<xnox> * re-uploaded mdadm SRU, pending re-review from slangasek
<xnox> * finished LUKS encryption design with mpt
<xnox> * good progress on manual RAID design with mpt (last remaining design item)
<xnox> * see Ubiquity Specification linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity
<xnox> * Automatic LVM support merge into Ubiquity.
<xnox> * Automatic Full-Disk encryption is almost ready locally, will
<xnox>   make a merge proposal soon (coding/design done, testing/finding
<xnox>   bugs now)
<xnox> * Increased available limits on HpCloud for my account.
<xnox> * Created a basic juju charm for Luca's cloud-scripts for full-archive rebuilds.
<xnox> * I will be running ubuntu full archive rebuild probably this weekend.
<xnox> * After that the small plan is to run:
<xnox> - rebuild, upload the debs into a temprorary archive & rebuild
<xnox>   the temporary archive using it's debs, to exercise the rebuild
<xnox>   code
<xnox> - rebuild with clang
<xnox> - rebuild with python3.3 (if available)
<xnox> * Went do debconf & delivered sponsors thank you bag to England:
<slangasek> xnox: yep, re-reviewing on my list for this week
<xnox> - awesome talks about ARM, multi-arch, clang, d-i & partman
<xnox> - good discussions about archive rebuilds with wookey,doko
<xnox> - progress on mdadm SRU, thanks to slangasek and infinity
<xnox> slangasek: ;-) it will make stgraber happy if it gets accepted.
<stgraber> I'm sure I'm not the only one being concerned that you own 10% of the 12.04.1 bugs ;)
<slangasek> heh
<ogra_> .. ?
<xnox> ..
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * made arm server alternate work ... (sadly the switch to squashfs broke them again)
<ogra_> * dug around in netinst breakage, at least these images work fine
<ogra_> * repeated image tests of all arm images i have HW for (everything but mx5)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * QA sprint next week
<ogra_> * fix remaining image and flash-kernel issues like:
<ogra_> * bug 1028905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<ogra_> * bug 746137
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746137 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "Page allocation failure on Pandaboard and Beagle XM" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746137
<ogra_> * bug 1026780
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1026780 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "3.0~rc.4ubuntu4 doesn't honor bootargs from /boot/boot.script anymore" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026780
<ogra_> ..
<jodh> For infinity (if he reads the scrollback now ;)...
<jodh>  
<jodh> â ¡â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â â â ±â â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â ¤â â ­â â â ±
<jodh> â â â ¤â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ºâ â â â ©â â â â â â ¨
<jodh> â â â ¤â â â â â â â â ºâ â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â â â â â â â ¨
<jodh> â â â ¤â â â â ­â â â â â â â â â ±
<jodh> â â â â â ¤â â â â â â â ½â â â â ¥â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â â â â â â ¨
<jodh> â â â â â ¤â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¨
<slangasek> infinity's not on the channel... :)
<jodh> â â â â â ¤â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¤â â ­â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¨
<jodh> â â â â â ¤â â â â â â â â â â ¤â â â â â â â ¨
<slangasek> also: ahhhwhat
<jodh> â â â ¤â â â ¥â â â â ¦â ´â â â ¶â ±â â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â â â §â â â â â â â â â â â â ¨
<jodh> â ¡â â â â â â ±â â â â â â â â â â â ½â â â ¥â â â â â ½â ¨
<jodh> á£«
<jodh>  
<jodh> For those that don't do "tetris" (tm) ...
<jodh>  
<jodh> * boot/upstart: stateful re-exec:
<jodh>   - blocked object serialisation/deserialisation now 99% done.
<slangasek> oh, braille
<jodh>   - can now serialise and deserialise dbus messages.
<jodh>   - next stages:
<jodh>     - modify enum handling to handle enum changes.
<jodh>     - handle ptraced jobs.
<jodh>     - consider re-exec scenarios.
<jodh>     - add meta-header.
<jodh>   - bug 980917: continuing investigations.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980917 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Failed to create pty - disabling logging for job" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980917
<jodh> * misc: on holiday Tuesday.
<jodh> á£«
<jodh>  
<jodh> slangasek: hence the scrollback comment ;)
<slangasek> jodh: no, he's not connected to the channel
<slangasek> so he won't have scrollback to see it in :)
<jodh> oh well - he'll have to read it on irclogs :)
<ogra_> poor boy missing all the barille fun
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for SRU of bug 1006633 for precise and realized code was wrong
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006633 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "should collect /etc/default/grub from package install failures due to update-grub failing" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006633
<bdmurray> wrote and tested a new fix for bug 1006633 for quantal and precise
<bdmurray> wrote, tested and uploaded a fix for bug 1007637 regarding blocking package installation failures
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007637 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "ubuntu general hook should check to see if package install failure has already happened" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007637
<bdmurray> setup rls-mgr and qa team reports on cranberry as ubuntureports
<bdmurray> removed code to create reports being made by arsenal from the ubuntu-reports branch
<bdmurray> patch pilot
<bdmurray> uploaded kerneloops that disables it due to crashers when trying to run the daemon
<bdmurray> fixed gnuplot scripts that run on lillypilly and create pkgstats graphs
<bdmurray> modify ultimate debian database code to mark same title bugs as duplicates
<slangasek> yay test cases :)
<slangasek> does "ubuntureports" mean urls are changing?
<bdmurray> slangasek: no, just a different user that multiple people can su to and emails regarding cronjobs
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> (done)?
<bdmurray> yes, done
<slangasek> stokachu: hi, anything to add this week?
<slangasek> sounds like no
<slangasek> moving on
<slangasek> [TOPIC] 12.04.1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: 12.04.1
<slangasek> stgraber: you have the floor :)
<stgraber> yay!
<stgraber> Full bug list can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<stgraber> I went through the upload queue and updated the status of these bugs to In-progress so that I can get a better idea of what's going on.
<stgraber> The biggest foundation-related SRU currently in the queue is mdadm, fixing one critical bug and 7 others but it's quite large and hasn't been reviewed yet.
<stgraber> The list below is for any remaining foundation-related issue that's not marked "In progress" (waiting in unapproved) or "Fix commited" (currently in -proposed).
<stgraber> We went from 33 bugs in last week's meeting down to 16 this week (granted, marking all of xnox's as in-progress helped quite a bit ;)!
<stgraber> so, now to what's left to do:
<stgraber> Package management: bug 1017001, bug 926340, bug 924079
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926340 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Precise) "aptd crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in _set_error(): 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 9: ordinal not in range(128)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924079 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "do-release-upgrade fails to upgrade from Oneiric to Precise: Couldn't configure pre-depend libtinfo5 for libncurses5, probably a dependency cycle" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924079
<stgraber> the first one is assigned to mvo but he's having a hard time trying to reproduce it, so not much progress was done on it
 * slangasek nods
<stgraber> Filesystem bugs: bug 978012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978012 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please SRU micro bug fix release of e2fsprogs 1.42.4-3ubuntu1 (main) from Quantal (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978012
<stgraber> this one was in the queue last week IIRC but isn't anymore, what happened?
<stgraber> xnox: ?
<xnox> this one, infinity rejected the upload. and said that he will discuss it with me tomorrow.
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> Installer: bug 991982 (private, assigned to me), bug 484252, bug 946406, bug 966480, bug 987411
<slangasek> bdmurray: are we much closer to being able to have apt clone attachments stay around again?  probably too late to do any good for bug #1017001 in .1, but seems the shortest path to getting that fixed regardless
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 991982 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484252 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Precise) "Format action wipes all partitions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946406 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "suspect race condition Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966480 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "The prompt asking for media removal is not shown at the end of the installation" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966480
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987411 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Quantal) "layout of browser slide in Lubuntu slide show broken (german)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<stgraber> and bug 992061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992061 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Precise) "USB Startup Disk Creator displays one USB device multiple times" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992061
<stgraber> if we can't have bug 1017001 fixed for .1, we really should have a way to get apt-clones of these systems at least. I'm expecting quite a few of them to hit that failure as people start upgrading
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<bdmurray> slangasek: I think it is in the -proposed queue
<slangasek> ah
<stgraber> the casper bugs are quite racy, I spent most of Monday trying to reproduce them without much luck... asked for some more details but at this pace it seems less and less likely to be fixed for the point release
<slangasek> bdmurray: apport/2.0.1-0ubuntu12?
<bdmurray> slangasek: no, actually not as it needs a new apt-clone too
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you make that a priority for this week?
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> ta
<stgraber> Boot: bug 980917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980917 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Failed to create pty - disabling logging for job" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980917
<stgraber> Multi-arch (being worked on by stokachu and arges): bug 977947, bug 977952, bug 932860, bug 859600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932860
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<stgraber> waiting on rdepends rebuild for these
<stgraber> Other core packages: bug 523896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<stgraber> on that list, the following bugs are currently unassigned (assigned to the team): bug 924079, bug 992061, bug 523896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924079 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "do-release-upgrade fails to upgrade from Oneiric to Precise: Couldn't configure pre-depend libtinfo5 for libncurses5, probably a dependency cycle" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924079
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992061 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Precise) "USB Startup Disk Creator displays one USB device multiple times" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992061
<bdmurray> slangasek: actually its update-manager and apt-clone that need uploading and there is currently an update-manager in precise-proposed that needs verifying
<slangasek> can anyone here help with that update-manager verification?
<slangasek> stgraber: when does the freeze for .1 go into effect?  End of the month?
<stgraber> slangasek: 2nd of August
<slangasek> ah, a thursday freeze :)
<jibel_> bdmurray, u-m bug number that need verification ?
<slangasek> so we have just over a week for uploads
<bdmurray> jibel_: bug 1002956
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002956 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Missing ReleaseNotesViewerWebkit.py from package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002956
<jibel_> ta
<slangasek> stgraber: I think the bugs that are not yet assigned to anyone need to be un-milestoned then
<bdmurray> jibel_: and bug 979661 though it has no specific test case
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979661 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "oneiric to precise: debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Gnome and falls back to Dialog" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979661
<slangasek> I don't think it's realistic that they're going to get fixes in the next week
<stgraber> jibel_: the other bug in that SRU is a race condition, so not really verifyable, regression testing is good enough for that (I'd count the test of bug 1002956 as regression testing for bug 979661)
<jibel_> ok, I'll do the verification
<bdmurray> jibel_: great, thanks!
<stgraber> slangasek: usb-creator was fixed in quantal, I'll assign it to me to look for a cherry-pick.
<slangasek> stgraber: ah, great
<stgraber> slangasek: the two others, I'll bump to .2 as they seem rather annoying and at least the shadow bug has been hitting quite a lot of people
<slangasek> sorry, I assumed it was not-fixed-in-quantal, like most of the ones remaining
<slangasek> yes, that sounds good
<slangasek> as for the rest of the bugs... if you have a .1 bug assigned to you, please get the fix in BEFORE next Thursday
<slangasek> or speak up now if you think you're not going to make that deadline
<xnox> slangasek: is this deadline for: upload, accepted, or copied into -updates?
<stgraber> upload, ideally accepted
<jodh> slangasek: no guarantees on a fix for bug 980917 at this stage. I'll keep prodding though.
<slangasek> yes - and definitely not the last
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980917 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Failed to create pty - disabling logging for job" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980917
<stgraber> we have an extra couple of weeks for veriyfying the fixes and getting them to -updates after that
<slangasek> jodh: understood
<xnox> well. I don't know what's up with e2fsprogs. mdadm bugs should be ok.
 * slangasek nods
<stgraber> I have two bugs that won't make it by next Thursday but that's on purpose as these will be pushed through -security at the last minute
<slangasek> stgraber: anything else?
<xnox> slangasek: i am guessing these deadlines are for stuff on the cd, e.g. do we have any multi-arch bugs pending from stokachu ?
<slangasek> yes, these are the deadlines for images
<slangasek> I think the multiarch bugs are the ones stgraber already covered
<stgraber> slangasek: nope, that's it for 12.04.1
<slangasek> stgraber: great, thanks for the update!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: how about in quantal?
<stgraber> slangasek: right, 4 multi-arch bugs are still pending, starting to wonder if they'll make it at all (still no rdepends rebuild test) ...
<xnox> stgraber: hmm.. i have a cloud to do rdepends rebuild. What is needed? can be done very quickly.
<bdmurray> bug 1022629 and 1024861 look like a recurrance of bug 541595
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022629 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package libdbusmenu-glib4 0.6.2-0ubuntu0.1 failed to install/upgrade: package libdbusmenu-glib4 is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022629
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024861 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package language-pack-en 1:12.04+20120618 failed to install/upgrade: package language-pack-en is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 541595 in dpkg "[Master] package failed to install/upgrade: package is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541595
<stgraber> xnox: rdepends rebuild using the packages in bugs 977947, 977952, 932860, 859600 (so, the usual, uploading the new library, waiting for it to build+publish, then upload no-change-rebuilds of all the rdepends and check that they still all build)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932860
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<xnox> stgraber: ok. I can do that.
<slangasek> xnox: thanks :)
<xnox> nice smallish rebuild test with a small amount of packages (as in, not the whole archive ;-) just a bit of it )
<stgraber> xnox: cool. If you do, let arges and stokachu know so you don't end up duplicating the work :)
<slangasek> bdmurray: the logs in bug #1024861 don't give much to go on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024861 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package language-pack-en 1:12.04+20120618 failed to install/upgrade: package language-pack-en is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024861
<slangasek> nor does bug #1022629, really
<bdmurray> slangasek: what more do we need?  I suspect there are a lot of these
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022629 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package libdbusmenu-glib4 0.6.2-0ubuntu0.1 failed to install/upgrade: package libdbusmenu-glib4 is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022629
<slangasek> bdmurray: well, the dpkg term log just looks truncated to me
<slangasek> though maybe I'm just wishing it were truncated
<bdmurray> well apport does truncate it to the last activity
<slangasek> so I suspect that we may only be seeing logs from a "cleanup" run after some other failure
<slangasek> and that we might need to know the nature of the original failure to understand the bug
<bdmurray> okay, I'll ask for /var/log/apt/term.log then
<slangasek> great, thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> nope, things are getting resolved pretty quickly
<slangasek> excellent :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> going once...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 25 15:45:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-25-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-25-15.01.html
<slangasek> thanks all!
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
<xnox> cheers
<ogra_> thanks !
<phillw> #startmeeting Lubuntu Weekly Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 25 20:07:43 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Weekly Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<phillw> hi, can we have a show of hands as to who is here
<gilir> o/
<Unit193> \o/
<phillw> hmm, should be a short meeting, then!
<gilir> :-)
<phillw> #topic Update from Julien for 12.10
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Weekly Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Update from Julien for 12.10
<phillw> Can you bring us up to date on 12.10, please gilir
<gilir> let me 1 min to find the link :)
<phillw> np
<gilir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha3#Lubuntu
<gilir> so, most of the features have landed between A2 and A3
<gilir> session manager had big modifications, but it should behave like the old one
<gilir> as long as you don't enable the new features in the conf file, it should be just the same
<gilir> the plan is to test them in this cycle, and build a nice GUI for the next cycle, to expose the new features
<gilir> with this, pcmanfm was updated, and should be more stable now
<gilir> this is 2 main changes that need to be tested
<phillw> thanks, is there any documentation for the session manager?
<gilir> there is also an update of the artwork (smaller than previous update)
<gilir> there is a desktop.conf.example file in the package
<phillw> thanks
<gilir> you can also find it in lxde git
<gilir> http://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=lxde/lxsession;a=blob;f=data/desktop.conf.example;h=5d6bbbb9eee697a9200792f39793d854243c0833;hb=HEAD
<gilir> except for the icons theme which is coming, the A3 should be close to the final release for the features
<gilir> any questions ?
<phillw> it's looking really good :)
<phillw> #topic Update from QA Testing.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Weekly Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Update from QA Testing.
<phillw> The good news is that there are no show-stopper bugs in the A3
<gilir> cool :-)
<phillw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/226/builds has the list of niggles found by the testers.
<phillw> Just waiting on Lars to complete the suite for AMD64 + Mac
<phillw> It was a curtailed test period (again), but we're good for a3 release :)
<phillw> for the record, the bugs found are:
<phillw> bug 1007674
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007674 in linux (Ubuntu) "Panel volume slider does not respond" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007674
<phillw> bug 1009896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1009896 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu Alternate and Desktop images exceed 700MB" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1009896
<phillw> bug 967308
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967308 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Sync slideshow apps with Ubuntu : Mention Gnote or Zim in the slideshow" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967308
<gilir> there is still a big oversize for every ISO, I'm not sure what is the real cause
<gilir> the slideshow was not uploaded yet, but most of the changes are already done and ready for upload
<phillw> Hmm, it does cause issues for the testers for powerpc. But they seem to have adapted.
<phillw> does powerpc still have both browsers installed?
<gilir> phillw, probably, but the change is done, just need to be uploaded
<gilir> I can do it just after A3
<phillw> okies, not sure how much over sized they currently are.
<gilir> sorry, I was a bit late on this one :-(
<phillw> it's okay. I know that the 'main' archs have to take priority of your scarce time.
<phillw> It does rather seem that Lubuntu will be the only one flying the flag for PPC macs from now on. (So, no presuure then :P ).
<gilir> :-)
<phillw> kubuntu may do one, if they have time. Xubuntu are not doing & I think Ubuntu is too 'big' for powerpc computers
<phillw> To have only a couple of niggles at A3 is a testament to the hard work of the dev team. You've produced a nice stable system again :)
<phillw> I'd also like to note that the testers have, once again, been outstanding in getting bugs reported & following them up with more information when requested.
<phillw> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Weekly Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<phillw> Unit193: you did mention something in the -ot channel. Do you want to repeat it here?
<Unit193> They were going to sync all the access lists flags, so where some ops have +r and some don't, all would or would not.
<Unit193> There was also syncing with launchpad goups.
<Unit193> groups.
<phillw> anyone else have something to raise?
<phillw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 25 20:34:10 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-25-20.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-25-20.07.html
<gilir> thanks phillw :-)
<phillw> Thanks for making the time gilir - much appreciated.
<Unit193> Danke.
<Unit193> And I wonder what I forgot so far...
<phillw> he he, gilir is it okay to schedule a meeting just before Beta 1 goes out in the wild?
<Unit193> Also, if you wouldn't mind updating the Fridge calendar?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-26
 * stgraber waves
<arges> o/
<stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 14:01:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> stokachu, smoser, jamespage, jibel_, skaet: ping
<smoser> o/
<jibel_> o~
<NCommander> o_/
<stgraber> #topic Action items review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action items review
<stgraber> xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing
<stgraber> no xnox around, so not sure what's the status on this, will keep it on the list of now
<stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of upcoming deadlines
<jibel_> no news from xnox this week
 * skaet o/
<stgraber> jibel_: ok, I know he's quite busy (days off and quite a bit of work when he's around), so I wouldn't expect much to change at this point
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/02: Beginning of PointReleaseProcess and DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<stgraber> in case it's not already clear ;) you have ONE week to get your fixes in!
<stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
<seb128> hey
<stgraber> hey seb128
<seb128> sort of around but at GUADEC so I might drop offline or not be responsive
<stgraber> seb128: just did the action reviews and pasted the deadlines, starting with the bugs now.
<stgraber> The number of targeted bugs went from 120 last week to 106.
<seb128> if you have questions for me please ask them while I'm around ;-)
<stgraber> Of these 106, 45 are in fix commited state (likely waiting in -proposed)
<stgraber> and 14 are marked "in progress" (waiting to be approved).
<stgraber> So that's 47 bugs that still need fixing of which 19 aren't assigned to somebody.
<stgraber> With just one week to go, now would be a good time to cleanup these lists and remember your teammates that they have bugs to fix :)
<seb128> we should start moving agressively stuff to .2 I guess
<seb128> right, will do that
<stgraber> The full list of bugs can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<stgraber> The list of remaining bugs to fix can be found at: http://goo.gl/RUiZe
<stgraber> Some of these aren't assigned to someone yet: http://goo.gl/22zV2
<seb128> did we have an improved report?
<stgraber> we have http://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html thanks to arges
<arges> seb128, still getting the cron job set up on cranberry
<seb128> thanks
<stgraber> xnox offered to help arges and stokachu with the required rdepends rebuild for their multiarch packages by using his rebuild scripts on the HP cloud.
<stgraber> stokachu, arges: did you make any progress on that side (multiarch bugs)? I expect these to take quite a while to verify, so we really need them in ASAP
<arges> stokachu is out right now, but I'll sync with him when he gets out of his meeitngs
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> If someone has fixes will be uploaded after the deadline and this was agreed with the release team, please let me know, otherwise I'll move all remaining bugs to 12.04.2.
<stgraber> #action stgraber to move all remaining bugs from 12.04.1 to 12.04.2 on the 2nd of August at 21:00 UTC
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to move all remaining bugs from 12.04.1 to 12.04.2 on the 2nd of August at 21:00 UTC
<stgraber> *that will be
<stgraber> I'd obviously prefer that people re-milestone their own bugs before that ;)
<stgraber> that's it on my side for the bugs, anyone has anything to highlight?
 * arges looks
<arges> stgraber, http://launchpad.net/bugs/979003  <-- this one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979003 in eglibc (Ubuntu Precise) "libc incorrectly detects AVX support" [High,In progress]
<skaet> stgraber,   some of the remaining bugs we may want to go to -updates instead of 12.04.2 - so a scrub rather than bulk move is probably appropriate.
<stgraber> arges: I'm told that one will be fixed on time by infinity
<stgraber> arges: along with a couple others eglibc bugs
<seb128> ok, I'm moving room, might get disconnected
<stgraber> skaet: yeah, that's why I'd prefer the assignee to re-milestone their own bugs before I mass re-milestone the rest. I'm just going to move from 12.04.1 to 12.04.2, but anything that should instead go to updates should ideally be done by the assignee
<arges> stgraber, ok cool that's my understanding too
<stgraber> #topic Media oversizedness (skaet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Media oversizedness (skaet)
<skaet> no updates on this from me.    We do need to understand why we're oversized.
<stgraber> so, currently the only images that are oversized are amd64, amd64+mac and i386 daily-live
<stgraber> one of the main reasons is the inclusion of duplicate kernel headers
<stgraber> infinity said he'd hack live-build to fix that, but that didn't happen yet apparently
<stgraber> I'll poke infinity post-meeting regarding eglibc + live-build, to confirm that these will land before the 2nd
<skaet> thanks.
<stgraber> I haven't looked at flavour oversizedness yet, mostly because we're not building them yet (AFAIK), but it's possible that we'll have some problems with kubuntu, xubuntu, .. too
<stgraber> edubuntu should be fine as it's a DVD and has around 2GB of free space :)
<stgraber> #topic Round table
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Round table
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber stokachu arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage)
<stgraber> stokachu stgraber arges NCommander smoser jamespage jibel seb128 skaet
<stgraber> no stokachu, so skipping to me
<stgraber> I've been uploading a bunch of SRUs that had patches attached or were easy cherry-pick. I have a couple more like that to do.
<stgraber> I'm also going to do another round of SRU verification as the list is getting a bit long to my taste.
<stgraber> Besides that, I've been nagging my teammates and cleaning up the bug list :)
<stgraber> arges:
<arges> Trying to get the point-release dashboard working on cranberry
<arges> it works on my machine, but not there, so trying to debug it
<arges> I know its very late in the cycle here, but I'm hoping its more useful in .2
<arges> ..
<stgraber> NCommander:
<stgraber> around?
<stgraber> apparently not
<stgraber> smoser:
<smoser> - server tracked bugs list is quite resonable.
<smoser>   It really feels to me like 12.04.1 and maas updates are not likely.
<smoser>   I believe the team is still considering what to do for maas updates to LTS. I'll poke today.
<smoser> we've had some srus. maas is the big stuff still left on the bug list.
<smoser> 'im pinging others on their bugs right now.
<smoser> <end>
<NCommander> stgraber: sorry, was OTP'ed
 * NCommander will wait for you to comearound
<stgraber> NCommander:
<NCommander> highbank SRUs are in propsed, known to work (aside fromyou have to enable proposed on the kernel command line for the moment)
<NCommander> Expecting no issues to passing into updates, and mreed already validated, and mahmoh is re-validating as a second check
 * smoser was also covering for jamespage per his request
<NCommander> Unless castrophy strikes, Highbank will release with 12.04.1 as planned
<NCommander> </end>
<stgraber> jibel_:
<jibel_> SRU verification of ubiquity, update-manager and other upgrades defects and found no regression.
<jibel_> Blocked on bug 1017580 , the test case must be clarified
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017580 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Add the ability to run custom scripts inside ubiquity-dm" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017580
<jibel_> and bug 987050 , alternate is not installable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987050 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "No "Prepare for shipping ..." option after OEM install from D-I" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987050
<jibel_> precise alternate and server fail to install with a typical 'no kernel module found' which should be fixed with debian-installer 20101020ubuntu136.2 uploaded yesterday.
<jibel_> But from the version file on the media the image is built with 20101020ubuntu136 (version from the release pocket)
<stgraber> jibel_: I can take care of bug 1017580 if you want
<jibel_> my understanding was that images are built from proposed, is it the case for d-i based images too ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017580 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Add the ability to run custom scripts inside ubiquity-dm" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017580
<jibel_> I'll continue SRU verification by the top of the list.
<jibel_> Did a bunch of installation with Ubiquity 2.10.18 and no new bug found so far.
<jibel_> ..
<stgraber> jibel_: yeah, all images are supposed to be built with -proposed enabled... not sure what happened to the alternates...
<jibel_> and server
<stgraber> seb128:
<seb128> not a lot from desktop
<seb128> we got a new unity SRU in proposed
<seb128> we should get another set of compiz uploads
<seb128> then some GNOME updates and small fixes
<seb128> then done for .1
<seb128> ..
<stgraber> skaet:
<skaet> discussed with vanhoof the cedartrail* landing late,   looking into a bug with the slideshow on a fresh install,  settled with martin and david that david will be doing the translation updates.   Doing calculations to add rest of LTS dailies to cron job,  will add after A3 publishes.
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> one reminder on bug statuses as I've had to fix quite a few lately
<stgraber> for the SRU tasks (series = precise, milestone = 12.04.X), the reports and scripts usually expect the following
<stgraber> triaged + assigned => bug is being worked on or at least on someone's todo list
<stgraber> in-progress => fix has been uploaded and is waiting in the queue for an SRU team member to review
<stgraber> fix-commited => the fix has landed in -proposed and is pending verification
<stgraber> fix-released => the fix has landed in -updates and is available to everyone
<stgraber> the most common mistakes I've seen so far has been marking fix-released when they're only in -proposed and marking fix-commited when the fix hasn't even been uploaded yet (or is still in the queue)
<stgraber> I'm doing weekly passes on the 12.04.1 bugs to try and fix any mistake so the reports are accurate, but would be even better if the statuses would be correct to start with :)
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> anything else?
 * skaet thinks silence indicates EOM... ;)
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 26 14:42:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-14.01.html
<jibel_> thanks stgraber
<stgraber> skaet: yeah, I had a 40s lag for some reason, so it took a while for that #endmeeting to go through ;)
<stgraber> thanks everyone!
<skaet> thanks stgraber
<micahg> o/
<bdrung> o/
<tumbleweed> o/
<coolbhavi> o/
<asomething> hi all
<coolbhavi> hi asomething
<tumbleweed> coolbhavi: I guess you are the chair, from the last minutes
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, just was having dinner ll be back in just a moment
<tumbleweed> coolbhavi: does that mean we should start without you?
<coolbhavi> #startmeeting MOTU meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 16:05:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is coolbhavi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | MOTU meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<coolbhavi> hi all
 * coolbhavi checks the latest agenda
<asomething> doesn't seem to have anything up for discussion...
<coolbhavi> yes asomething
<maco> mono: go!
 * cody-somerville is here but in another meeting concurrently.
<coolbhavi> I had a couple of work items myself
 * micahg hasn't gotten to his WI yet
<micahg> umm, how about scheduling an event where MOTU help Debian close RC bugs?
<micahg> most of them are RC in Ubuntu as well
<micahg> err...well, at least a good portion
<coolbhavi> micahg, certainly yes :)
<tumbleweed> micahg: I like that
<asomething> +1
<bdrung> sounds good (besides that it needs manpower which is a rare resource)
<micahg> by MOTU I mean the MOTU community, not just MOTUs as I'm sure most of those present understand
 * bdrung nods.
<coolbhavi> micahg, sounds good.. are you willing to take a session on the same in MOTU school?
<micahg> coolbhavi: my biggest problem ATM is time, I can try to be around to help when the event happens, but can't commit to a session right now
<tumbleweed> I don't know if one can teach "fixing RC bugs"
<micahg> well, show how to find them, what to do once you have a patch...
<tumbleweed> but it would be easy enough to do a quick overview of how to find Debian RC bugs, what makes them RC, and how to contribute
<ScottK> tumbleweed: You can teach finding which ones are RC bugs and sorting through them to find the one you can ifx.
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, just a process workflow insight would help I guess
<ScottK> That's hard enough if you don't know the tools.
<tumbleweed> yes
 * tumbleweed can volunteer for that session
<coolbhavi> ScottK, agreed but as micahg said one can always show a bug or two as an example and interested people can pickup I guess
<coolbhavi> any further inputs on the same anyone?
<bdrung> no
<tumbleweed> picking a date would be good
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, how about next tuesday or anyday of next week?
<tumbleweed> next tuesday works for me. from midday UTC?
<coolbhavi> fine with me too
<bdrung> why not the whole day?
<tumbleweed> if one wants a training thing, it starts with that
<bdrung> agreed
<tumbleweed> but I suppose, it doesn't have to
<coolbhavi> bdrung, we initially thought of a series of intro sessions (maybe around 4 or 5) with introduction to some development topics this cycle as a part of relaunch of MOTU school. take a look at the response and then plan it forward the next cycle
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, any time proposal for the session in your mind?
<tumbleweed> my proposal was midday UTC, it suits me well, just after lunch. But I can make any time after 8am UTC
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, how about 2PM UTC then?
<coolbhavi> next tuesday>
<tumbleweed> coolbhavi: sure, that's afternoon for europe and morning for the US
<coolbhavi> I'll make an action item then
<coolbhavi> #action tumbleweed to take a session on RC bug fixing workflow on tuesday 31st at 1400 UTC
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to take a session on RC bug fixing workflow on tuesday 31st at 1400 UTC
<coolbhavi> other point of discussion was spreading the word around MOTU School
<coolbhavi> IIRC
<coolbhavi> any thoughts anyone?
<tumbleweed> what are you needing for that. People to sign up?
<tumbleweed> is there a schedule and has a call for speakers been posted? I don't recall it
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, something like a blogpost would do I had called for speakers during 1st session https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-July/007273.html
<coolbhavi> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-July/007273.html
<tumbleweed> coolbhavi: can I propose having a schedule wiki page like we do for UDW
<tumbleweed> then it's obvious when there are gaps that should be filled
<tumbleweed> or do sessions only happen when we have speakers offering?
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, sure +1 here
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, A schedule list on the wiki and a call for speakers before each session on the list would be fine I guess
<tumbleweed> coolbhavi: it'd be great
<tumbleweed> I'll happily sign up for a session or two, if I saw the huge gaps that needed filling :)
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, thanks a lot :)
<coolbhavi> #action tumbleweed to set up a MOTU school schedule page on the wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to set up a MOTU school schedule page on the wiki
 * tumbleweed shuts up so he stops getting action items
<tumbleweed> :)
<coolbhavi> other thing we discussed was merging of packaging training and MOTU school pages on the wiki which I hope to finish by next monday
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, sorry for those :)
<tumbleweed> no, that's how it works...
<coolbhavi> :)
<coolbhavi> so those were the discussion points from the last meeting afaik. Is there anything anyone wants to discuss?
<tumbleweed> there are also standing agenda items on the wiki page
<bdrung> i like to discuss merges
<bdrung> how many package are modified in Ubuntu? does this number increase or decrease? can we get the changes back into Debian?
<tumbleweed> have you seen the graphs at the bottom of https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
 * micahg thinks MoM is broke again
<tumbleweed> don't forget debian is frozen
<tumbleweed> which makes it suprising that so many things need merging
<micahg> nope, it's broke :), last graphs generated 7 days ago
<tumbleweed> we should post some reminders about that...
 * tumbleweed hides
<micahg> well, we can push patches up while Debian is frozen, but they probably won't be integrated until after DIF for R when Debian unfreezes
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the graphs is too small
<tumbleweed> what I mean is, we should be easily able to catch up on the merges
<ScottK> bdrung: You have access to the source, so you can fix that.
<tumbleweed> there should be few incoming changes from Debian that aren't very important to us
<ScottK> BTW, I've found in my RC bug fixing in Debian a few cases where when I went to sync the fix to Ubuntu, it was already in Ubuntu (and recently so).
<ScottK> No patch was ever sent.
<ScottK> So that could be better still.
<coolbhavi> ScottK, +1 here
<ScottK> blockdiag beint the one I hit last night.
<ScottK> ... being ...
<coolbhavi> ScottK, how about notifying the developer (from the changes list) when he does patch a ubuntu package and the patch would be applicable in debian too (like ftbfs patches) to forward it to debian as a remainder after checking the BTS if the developer hasnt done so?
 * coolbhavi thinks its a weird idea
<tumbleweed> calling out poor behavior ++
<ScottK> I can take care of the specific case, but there's obviously more work to be done.
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, ScottK agreed
<coolbhavi> any inputs from anyone regarding the same? and any other topic to discuss?
<tumbleweed> I still see a few standing items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings thath we haven't covered
<tumbleweed> but I need to run off
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, I thought those are fixed items
 * coolbhavi sees that the meeting is well past time :)
<coolbhavi> btw anyone volunteering to chair next meeting?
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, bdrung ScottK ^^^^^
 * ScottK is not.
<coolbhavi> micahg,
 * bdrung hides.
<ScottK> That leaves tumbleweed.
<micahg> I guess I can chair if I'm around next time
<coolbhavi> micahg, great :)
 * coolbhavi searches around for tumbleweed 
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, is afk hmm
<coolbhavi> #action micahg to chair the next MOTU meeting on 10th July
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to chair the next MOTU meeting on 10th July
<coolbhavi> alright, thats it from me then
<coolbhavi> thanks all
<coolbhavi> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 26 17:19:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-16.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-16.05.html
<tumbleweed> coolbhavi: I understand that "fixed" as "standing"
<tumbleweed> certainly we were supposed to be having a bug fixinging inititiative item as a standing item
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, sorry I took it in the other sense
<jono> alrighty
<jono> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 18:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jono> hey folks!
<jono> who is hear for the Ubuntu Accomplishments team meeting?
 * janos_ here
<janos_> hey jono!
<notgary> Me o/
<jono> hey janos_!
<Andy80> <---- me :)
<margo> hi
<jono> cool, thanks, folks for joining us :-)
<jvrbanac> here
<jono> awesome :-)
<jono> so which of you folks is new and interested in helping with the project?
<jaywink> \o/ new here, would like to help :)
<margo> me too
<jvrbanac> I'm new here as well
<jono> fantastic, so maybe if you folks could just let us know the kind of things you like doing (e.g. programming, writing docs) or anything else, and we can get you started :-)
<jaywink> programming here: do Python mostly and I like the idea so figured this would be a nice way to try Ubuntu stuff for the first time
<jono> jaywink, oh awesome!
<jono> jaywink, you should take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking first
<Andy80> I like to code, maybe you remember I contributed with a small accomplishment. But right now (at least until the end of august) I cannot be sure to have enough time to help, since I work all day and when I go back home I'm very tired :(
<Andy80> so I'm here just to listen and to remain updated with the project status
<jono> Andy80, no worries, anything you can do to help would be great - maybe helping with some bugfixes?
<jvrbanac> Programming here. I took a look at at the hacking portion of the Wiki last night
<margo> i can code too, but i am not too experienced, and i can write doc or translate to german too if that is needed
<jono> jvrbanac, ahhh cool, did it make sense?
<jaywink> jono, yeah did read through today, will need to dig in deeper
<TheTattooedGeek> Hey Jono, Just here to see where the project is headed.. the only language I currently work in is PHP
<jvrbanac> yes it did.
<notgary> I'm relatively new here. Been to one meeting before and chimed in on the mailing list once. I'm a software developer in my day job, working with C++ and Qt. I'm making my way into iOS development in my spare time and have python and Django/Quickly on my todo list to learn.
<epikvision> I want to learn to code.
<jono> cool, so it seems like a lot of coding interest here
<gigix> hello
<jono> you folks should definitely check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking to get started
<jono> it explains how to install the branches and provides some details of how the project works
<jono> this is an evolving document so if things are not clear, do let me know, and I will clarify and then update the doc so everyone benefits
<jono> you folks should all join #ubuntu-accomplishments for sure
<jono> and I know a few of you mentioned being new, well the other primary hacker on the project, cielek, who unfortunately could not make the meeting today, well he was new to Python when he joined
<jono> and he is doing awesome work on the project
<jono> we just want to make sure that getting involved is as simple as possible
<TheTattooedGeek> nice
<jono> we are also growing our API docs for the project - they are linked on the Hacking page too
<jono> so if you want to start on something, we recommend picking a bug and hacking on it
<margo> sounds good ;)
<jono> the Viewer bugs are probably the easiest to get started with, and the bugs list is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-accomplishments-viewer
<jono> just pick a bug, work on it in your branch and then submit it
<jono> details of how to hack on it and submit it are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking#Step_4:_Create_and_Submit_Your_Fix
<jono> you might also want to join the mailing list at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-accomplishments-contributors
<jaywink> are bugs usually claimed or just worked on by however gets it done first? :) I guess that's not normally a problem ;)
<janos_> and if you have any questions along the way, usually somebody on #ubuntu-accomplishments can help if you explain where you got stuck
<jono> jaywink, right now we recommend people just pick a bug and post a comment to say they are working on it
<jono> but if you find you don't have time, please post a follow up comment so the bug is not blocked by others thinking you are working on it
<jono> yeah as janos_ says, we are always open to questions in #ubuntu-accomplishments
<jono> do any of you have any questions about the project, how to get started, or the code?
<TheTattooedGeek> negative
<gigix> so far so good for me
<jono> cool
<jono> well feel free to chip in with questions if you have them
<janos_> the wiki has step-by-step instructions, if something is missing or was not clear to you, let us know because others might be blocked by the same thing too
<jaywink> have been scared to participate in any UBuntu project so far - but this has been laid our so well that had to :) props, no questions so far, the hacking page is a good intro
<jono> jaywink, awesome! well, happy to take more questions so I can also expand the docs
<jono> jaywink, I recommend just picking a bug, starting hacking on it, and then just asking questions where you are unsure
<jono> and when you contribute your fix, we will also do a code review and offer further comments and guidance
<jaywink> ok cool
<jono> our goal is to make our community as welcoming and open as possible :-)
<jono> ok, so next topic
<jono> which will be of interest to janos_ and gepatino_mobile in particular
<jono> I have been chatting with Canonical IS about how we can have them host the project
<jono> I am not the best sysadmin :-)
<jono> this is the broad plan:
<jono>  * Canonical IS will set up a VM with a staging and production environment
<jono>  * trophies.ubuntu.com will be production and staging.trophies.ubuntu.com will be staging
<janos_> that is so awesome
<jono>  * they will deploy our current validation server, the web gallery, and our admin interface
<jono> :-)
<gepatino_mobile> jono, will the soft be updated automatically or by request?
<jono> we will all work on the staging server and when we cut a release in bzr, we will notify IS who will simply do a pull on production to deploy the code (as well as any additional deployment steps)
<jono> gepatino_mobile, my thinking is that for staging we will try to have hourly updates but for production it will be pulled on new releases
<jono> make sense?>
<janos_> jono how do we tell them the additional deployment steps?
<jono> janos_, we can always put it in a document somewhere
 * gepatino_mobile is typing in a blackberry on the bus...
<jono> gepatino_mobile, I admire your commitment to the meeting :-)
<gepatino_mobile> sounds good
<jono> ok cool
<jono> so I chatted to mbarnett today about this
<jono> and we can also safely presume the two django apps will be on the same machine as the validation server
<jono> which means we can presume the web gallery can see the shares
<jono> so there should be no changes requires to deploy in Canonical IS
<gepatino_mobile> makes sense, I was actually thinking more in staging than prod
<jono> right
<jono> it would be cool to have the current list of shares in staging as well as prod
<jono> so this should make your work easier
<jono> is there anything that you guys need janos_, gepatino_mobile?
<gepatino_mobile> for staging, probably we don't need live shares, a copy could be enough
<gepatino_mobile> updated daily, maybe
<jono> right
<jono> I am thinking we could just copy over the lives shares once a day to staging
<jono> hey n8k99
<n8k99> hi jono
<n8k99> got here as quickly as i could
<jono> no worries :-)
<jono> thanks for joining us!
<jono> n8k99, are you interested in contributing to the project?
<n8k99> i am, i like the accomplishments application
<n8k99> the concept is pretty cool way to drive more interest in the ubuntu community and project
<jono> n8k99, awesome - what kind of contribution? programming, docs, translations?
<janos_> jono: not sure the automatic updates are a good idea even on staging
<jono> janos_, no?
<n8k99> i had an idea this morning, started trying to write it, to make an accomplishment for making your first accomplishment for ubuntu-accomplishments
<jono> janos_, how do you think we should update staging? just a pull?
<jono> n8k99, cool!
<janos_> jono: if it takes the IS folks days or weeks to perform the manual deployment steps, then the site can be broken for days or weeks
<n8k99> far too meta perhaps, but i got the .accomlishment written
<jono> janos_, right, this is why I think automatic staging might work best
<jono> janos_, updating production should be quick
<jono> asking them to perform a pull doesn't take much
<jono> n8k99, oh cool!
<jono> n8k99, we are definitely in need of new accomplishments so I am glad you are helping :-)
<n8k99> coding isn't really my strong suit, but i'm gonna give that a whack
<janos_> jono: the current demo site was often broken for many days because of the automatic pull and that no sysadmin had time to do the manual steps
<jono> n8k99, well you can help in other ways too, such as writing the docs :-)
<jono> janos_, ahhh I see
<n8k99> that was where i was seeing my bigger contributions coming in
<jono> janos_, so I presume you would prefer if you could do a pull directly
<janos_> jono: I think it's better the IS update the staging site when they can actually perform the manual steps too
<gepatino_mobile> jono, janos_: could we have some kind of access to do the deploys? maybe using sdome deployment tool?
<jono> janos_, we could do that
<jono> janos_, how often do you think you will need staging updated?
<jono> n8k99, awesome :-)
<jono> n8k99, well your help is much appreciated :-)
<gepatino_mobile> juju someone? :)
<n8k99> glad to be involved again after far too long away!!
<jono> gepatino_mobile, a juju charm might be a good solution
<oneouthere> jono: do you have to be on ubuntu to add to the coding?
<janos_> jono: i think it's better if the IS guys do the update, so they build up expertise which will be useful for troubleshooting PROD in the future
<jono> oneouthere, pretty much, you need at least Ubuntu 12.04 to run the current codebase
<jono> oneouthere, we haven't tried it on other distros
<jono> janos_, how often do you think you will need staging updated?
<oneouthere> jono, okay thank you
<janos_> jono: once a week or so?
<jono> janos_, and is it the same manual steps each time that are run?
<jono> I am wondering whether this could be rolled into a juju deployment charm for the site
<janos_> jono: most of the time there are no manual steps
<jono> jan
<jono> janos_, I see
<jono> lets have a conversation with jcastro about this post-meeting - I will kick off a thread and lets see if Juju can support this
<jono> if not we can see if there is another option
<jono> I think it would be good if you guys could trigger a staging update when needed
<jono> and IS look after the production instance
<jono> then you are not blocked
<janos_> ok let's discuss later or in emails
<gepatino_mobile> that would be great, theres another python framework for deploying, but i cant remember the name
<jono> ok cool
<jono> thanks folks
<jono> the good news is that we should be in a position to get this up and running over the next few weeks
<n8k99> thank you!
<jono> janos_, gepatino_mobile can you summarize what the web gallery does now and what functionality is missing?
<janos_> sure, hang on
<jono> thanks
<janos_> 1. most of the functionality is there, as per the spec document
<janos_> 2. most of the pages are "not the prettiest" and need some touching up in the graphics
<jono> maybe imbrandon can help with the CSS there
<jono> he is a bit of a CSS guru :-
<jono> :-)
<janos_> we definitely need that
<jono> seeing if he is online and can join the meeting
<jono> I am sure he would be happy to help
<janos_> 3. the opportunities page should not show already achieved accomplishments
<janos_> 4. locked opportunities should use a lock image overlay like the viewer does
<jono> awesome
<janos_> 5. "Responsive design" would be nice, so the site looks nice on screens of all sizes
<janos_> I think these are the big todo items
<jono> sounds great
<janos_> gepatino_mobile: feel free to add!
<jono> I presume the mobile stylesheet is not started yet
<janos_> btw guys you can see it in action here: http://213.138.100.229:8000/
<janos_> jono: nope, and some css guru awesomeness would be great there
<jono> :-)
<jono> I am almost 100% sure Brandon would love to help with this
<jono> I will drop him an email
 * gepatino is back to a real keyboard
<jono> gepatino, welcome! :-)
<jono> thanks again for you hard work janos_ gepatino
<jono> so quick q
<gepatino> i've read up to janos_ point 2, did I miss something?
<jono> in the future it would be nice to show things such as "Other people who have accomplished this trophy"
<jono> I presume this is possible with the current data structure?
<jono> gepatino, he made more points:
<jono> <jono> maybe imbrandon can help with the CSS there
<jono>  he is a bit of a CSS guru :-
<jono>  :-)
<jono> <janos_> we definitely need that
<jono> <jono> seeing if he is online and can join the meeting
<jono>  I am sure he would be happy to help
<jono>  JanC janos_
<jono> <janos_> 3. the opportunities page should not show already achieved accomplishments
<jono>  4. locked opportunities should use a lock image overlay like the viewer does
<jono> <jono> awesome
<jono> <-- virgil153 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
<jono> <janos_> 5. "Responsive design" would be nice, so the site looks nice on screens of all sizes
<jono>  I think these are the big todo items
<jono> <jono> sounds great
<jono> <janos_> gepatino_mobile: feel free to add!
<jono> <jono> I presume the mobile stylesheet is not started yet
<jono> <janos_> btw guys you can see it in action here: http://213.138.100.229:8000/
<jono> <-- gepatino_mobile has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
<jono> <janos_> jono: nope, and some css guru awesomeness would be great there
<janos_> jono yes we can do this: "Other people who have accomplished this trophy"
<gepatino> I could ad a 6th point: I'm not sure if we got rid of some duplicated urls
<gepatino> maybe we should review the current url catalog before going live
<jono> gepatino, makes sense
<jono> janos_, cool
<jono> I am concious that we don't provide leaderboards (as people game them) but other social features would be cool
<jono> so it sounds like the core infrastructure will support those social features
<jono> awesome
<jono> ok, anything else on the deployment topic?
<gepatino> is there any estimate on how many users/shared we'll have when launching this?
<janos_> gazillions
<n8k99> that's an awfully small number
<jono> gepatino, not sure yet, I need to give IS an estimation of traffic
<jono> currently we have some stats:
<gepatino> are we sure that crawling all the shares to get the current trophies will work with so many users?
<jono> today we have about 700 users
 * gepatino only made tests with millions, not gazillions :/
<jono> hehe
<jono> I don't anticipate us hitting scaling issues for a while
<gepatino> ok, so it's something to be reviewed in future releases
<jono> I think we will be under 5000 shares for a while
<gepatino> ok, that's not that much
<jono> but who knows
<jono> I hope we explode with popularity :-)
<jono> the good news is that fixing scaling issues on the validation server would be simple
<gepatino> in that case we'll have to run, as usual in IT :)
<jono> indeed :-)
<jono> ok then, any other questions or topics?
<jvrbanac> Speaking about scalability, What is the policy on contributing towards code improvements, optimization, and unit testing?
<jvrbanac> ^speaking of
<notgary> Just like to point out that I pushed a basic iOS app to Launchpad yesterday. https://code.launchpad.net/~notgary/+junk/ubuntu-accomplishments-ios-app
<jono> jvrbanac, we welcome all contributions towards that
<notgary> It's very basic - I wrote a grand total of 4 lines
<jono> jvrbanac, mfisch has been working on unit tests for the daemon - most of the tests are in place
<notgary> But it point to a hard-coded url, in this case the project wiki until trophies.ubuntu.com goes live
<jvrbanac> jono, awesome thanks!
<jono> jvrbanac, we have performed some optimizations over the last few releases, but plenty more scope for improvements
<jono> jvrbanac, if you see areas of improvement that are quite big changes, we recommend you mail the list first to discuss, but feel free to hack on a branch and propose it
<jono> notgary, oh wow!
 * n8k99 is wondering about some of the launchpad account interactions
<jono> notgary, did you see the MobileSpec?
<n8k99> probably more of a QA interest at this point
<jono> notgary, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Specs/Mobile
<jono> n8k99, what kind of interactions?
<n8k99> there's been a few bugs filed where the launchpad accomplishments are not being picked up
<jono> n8k99, yeah we have had a few bugs where trophies are not validated
<jono> in most cases this has typically been due to Ubuntu One downtime or someone entering their credentials with a typo
<notgary> jono, I've seem it. It looks like the bulk of the functionality will be implemented server-side with the device-specific CSS. My plan was to wait until that got started before adding more code into the app, so I could see what actually needed the work.
<jono> notgary, perfect :-)
<jono> notgary, yeah, our thinking is a custom stylesheet for each device, and then the app has native menus that point to different parts of the site
<notgary> Has anyone started an Android app yet, because I'd be willing to work on that too, given that there's little involved in a wrapper for a web site.
<n8k99> i probably need to look at the way its being done before i'm able to form my thinking into an actual question
<jono> notgary, nope, no one contributed anything yet
<jono> n8k99, no worries!
<jono> n8k99, feel free to post the mailing list or ask on IRC when you are ready
<n8k99> i will. :-)
<jono> man, the mobile is going to be sweet :-)
<jono> any other topics or questions?
<notgary> That iOS project contains an iPad app as well
<jono> cool
<notgary> so we should get tablet CSS too
<n8k99> speaking of mobile, are there plans to be able to push trophies out to social media channels?
<jono> I am going to ask imbrandon if he can contribute stylesheets for the different devices
<jono> n8k99, yep, we have built in support in the desktop client
<jono> this could arguably be added on trophies.ubuntu.com too
<janos_> notgary: is there a way test an ios app without an ios dev env?
<jaywink> optional automatic social media pushing on trophies would be cool :)  <--- lazy
<notgary> Not that I'm aware of. I'll look into it and let you know on the mailing list.
<jono> jaywink, :-)
<janos_> notgary: probably not. on the other hand android is a lot easier, so i'm very much looking forward for that!
<notgary> If you have an iOS device then you could install a (read, my) development provisioning profile on the device which means you could run pre-release code signed by me
<jono> janos_, maybe one approach is to pass a device=ios string to the site and then it loads the relavant stylesheet
 * n8k99 thinks a new accomplishment is installing ubuntu-accomplishments for android
<jono> ok, I think we are about out of time
<jono> thanks everyone for joining!
<n8k99> is it too much scope to think about being able to use this to register meeting other people from the community?
<jono> be sure to add #ubuntu-accomplishments to your IRC auto-join :-)
<jono> and join the mailing list
<jvrbanac> Thanks Jono! will do!
<jono> n8k99, that is out of scope :-)
<jono> thanks, folks!
<jono> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 26 18:57:00 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-18.00.html
<n8k99> thought so!
<janos_> notgary: oh i see, good to know!
<notgary> janos_: I have no idea how to distribute my profile, so bare with me :)
<janos_> jono: i think we can detect screen size with css selectors, so we can be mobile platform agnostic
<janos_> notgary: in any case i'm interested in trying the android anyway! ;)
<notgary> I'll get onto that while I'm waiting for the CSS.
<janos_> great!
<jono> janos_, cool!
<janos_> ok guys I'll be on #ubuntu-accomplishments channel
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-27
<highvoltage> bonjout
<highvoltage> bonjour, even
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> wendar, ajmitch: so it sounds like you're just about as enthusiastic as me and stgraber to talk about arb stuff? :)
<stgraber> done that this morning, not much to add ;)
<ajmitch> hi, sorry
<ajmitch> I see you had an ad-hoc meeting earlier :)
<highvoltage> yeah that seemes like a pretty good meeting on itself
<highvoltage> ok have a good weekend everyone!
<ajmitch> ok, see you later
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-28
<Skald_9_> hello
<lou_> hi all
<lou_> I am trying to download a file via xchat; but, the download never starts
<lou_> it shows in the file transfer window with status of connect
<lou_> but, it never starts downloading
<ScottK> lou_: Help is in #ubuntu.
<lou_> ok thx, i guess
<MrChrisDruif> ScottK; I think #xchat might've been a better channel for redirect in this situation...but still =)
<lou_> am not getting any response there. I will try xchat; although, i didnt find it earlier. is it in freenode?
<ScottK> lou_: Lack of response in #ubuntu doesn't make this a help channel.
<MrChrisDruif> lou_; /join #xchat
<MrChrisDruif> And ScottK is still right lou_
<lou_> lol. i am not asking for help. Am just stating. thx MrChris
<IdleOne> dcc problems are really not a Ubuntu issue.
<lou_> i know. I found the answer online. thx MrChris for a useful suggestion
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-29
<Tm_T> I will be occupied elsewhere for next hour most likely, unfortunately
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jul 29 18:00:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<AlanBell> hi all, who is here for the IRC meeting?
<funkyHat> I will be here, for a change!
 * funkyHat 
<AlanBell> yay, hi funkyHat
<funkyHat> Hi â¢)
<AlanBell> I should have sent a reminder to the list probably
<LjL> oh hello
<AlanBell> but I know Pici isn't around
<AlanBell> hi LjL
<Pendulum> AlanBell: you were a bit busy
<AlanBell> I was, doing BBQ stuff
<AlanBell> and watching beach volleyball, important stuff like that
<AlanBell> ok, lets start on the agenda
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review last meetings action items
<AlanBell> x1k is up for membership but isn't in the channel it seems
<IdleOne> hello
<AlanBell> #progress m4v Pici AlanBell to look into adding ban removal to ubottu cababilities
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2012-July/001565.html
<Tm_T> I liked what was posted on the mailinglist
<AlanBell> m4v has made good progress
<topyli> hi, sorry i'm late
<AlanBell> "I did like everyone to test the feature with scratDev in #ubuntu-bots-test,
<Tm_T> topyli: academic quarter (:
<AlanBell> just go there and set some bans and quiets. Report any bugs you find and ping
<AlanBell> me for questions."
<AlanBell> hi topyli
<topyli> yes m4v is doing great
<AlanBell> that does all sound really cool
<AlanBell> so I think we should get lots of people in #ubuntu-bots-test to try it out
<AlanBell> and get bug reports filed and suggestions made
<IdleOne> I tested yesterday with a ban and a quiet, only problems I had were user error.
<IdleOne> the bot responses could be a little more informative, m4v said he was aware and going to work on them.
<AlanBell> ok, well I will certainly have a play with it
<LjL> i didn't test this yet, but i'm all for having ubottu handle this. a bit concerned over duplicated effort, but i guess it's things that happen
<AlanBell> it is an ubottu clone isn't it?
<IdleOne> it is
<LjL> AlanBell: yeah but i mean, niko also had something like this (except it wasn't 100% an ubottu clone etc, yes i know)
<AlanBell> yes, but there were problems with the test suite etc
<AlanBell> ok, so lets promote the testing of this bot over the next few weeks
<AlanBell> and also try to break it/do evil things to it
<LjL> i have dinner now, can't attend any further. don't decide anything i'd approve of!
<bazhang> hah
<AlanBell> hehe
<topyli> LjL: did we ever? :)
<AlanBell> ok, so that is great progress, really pleased with that
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> right, so we redirected a bunch of launchpad emails to the tracker, somewhat more than we expected to do
<AlanBell> now every time someone is added or removed or expires from a team we get a ticket created
<topyli> it is a bit of a problem. now we have to go close those tickets, and i've failed to do that
<AlanBell> the intention was to redirect the "contact this team" link to the ticket tracker, but it had unexpected side effects
<IdleOne> You guys are getting all the " This person has extended their membership emails?
<AlanBell> I wasn't sure at first if this was a bug or a feature, but I am now leaning towards "bug"
<funkyHat> I think it's a bug too
<AlanBell> IdleOne: yeah, we get that anyway, but now the tracker hassles us to resolve the "issue"
<topyli> yes it backfired a bit, it's not really much better than that stuff coming to my inbox
<topyli> s/much/any/
<AlanBell> ok, so lets undo that then and put it back as it was
<topyli> yes
<AlanBell> #action AlanBell to revert the IRCC launchpad contact redirect to the tracker
<meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to revert the IRCC launchpad contact redirect to the tracker
<topyli> someone is free to take the action of taunting me for suggesting this in the first place :)
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> I think there are no "real" tickets
<topyli> right
 * AlanBell closes the open ones
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 892500 eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500
<AlanBell> well we discussed this one, I will add a note to it linking to that email and the testing we are doing
<topyli> still in progress
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913541
<AlanBell> pici was having a go at this one, I will check the current progress on this and maybe help with it over the next few days, I want to get this to zero
<AlanBell> ok, that is the bugs
<AlanBell> #topic alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lists
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lists
<AlanBell> I haven't done much on this for a bit, but I will pick it up again over the next week or so
<AlanBell> #topic membership applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: membership applications
<AlanBell> we have a membership application from x1k in the agenda, however he is not in the channel
<topyli> x1k is not around
<topyli> deferred?
<IdleOne> probably best
<AlanBell> yes I think so too
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business
<AlanBell> anyone got any other items to raise today?
<topyli> i noticed that our team reports are lagging
<IdleOne> BT access? DO all the ops have it?
<IdleOne> Do*
<AlanBell> topyli: that is a very fair point
<topyli> those in probation don't, but everyone else?
<AlanBell> those in probation should have access too
<AlanBell> I think
<topyli> AlanBell: i can bring them up to date when i'm bored enough
<AlanBell> it is only a lack of actually doing it that is the problem
<IdleOne> it makes it difficult to learn how to use BT without access
<topyli> IdleOne: yes
<AlanBell> so how do we give bantracker access, is this a tsimpson question?
<IdleOne> AlanBell: m4v has the capability to add BT access also
<AlanBell> ok, great
<IdleOne> someone on the IRCC should have it too
<IdleOne> so :)
<AlanBell> yeah, that would be handy
<topyli> yep, but i don't think any of us does
<AlanBell> ok, that is something to sort out
<topyli> it's legacy from the time when tsimpson was on the ircc, and we forgot to handle it
<IdleOne> afaik tsimpson jussi and m4v have the owner capability
<IdleOne> but it only makes sense that the IRCC has the power to add users.
<AlanBell> ok, we will get that sorted and make sure all the ops have access
<AlanBell> we had a training class last week by Myrtti http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/26/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<AlanBell> which was really good, but lightly attended
<AlanBell> I know some people had timezone issues and wanted to read the logs which is fine
<AlanBell> we have another training session on Thursday 2nd
<AlanBell> at 17:00 UTC with LJL leading it
<topyli> we could advertise the log, and maybe my 'helping when you're not an op' class
<AlanBell> a tour of the bots and channels
<AlanBell> topyli: yes, that would be great
<topyli> oh, let's wait until that's done too
<IdleOne> i don't think we should wait on spreading good info
<AlanBell> we should try and get more people to participate in the next one, particularly the new operators
<IdleOne> we can have multiple blog posts and do just as well
<topyli> true, it's not like we're exactly spamming the planet currently :)
<IdleOne> Myrtti's class was excellent and people should hear about it
<AlanBell> IdleOne: agreed, the more the merrier
<AlanBell> topyli: you have access to the blog, want to post an article about it?
<topyli> AlanBell: ok
<AlanBell> #action topyli to blog about the training classes/logs
<meetingology> ACTION: topyli to blog about the training classes/logs
<AlanBell> ok, any other things to discuss now?
<topyli> AlanBell: add an action for me also to fix the team reports so i don't forget
<pleia2> we tossed one up on the classroom blog late last week too (friday I believe)
<pleia2> so hopefully that'll help too :)
<AlanBell> #action topyli to sort out team reports
<meetingology> ACTION: topyli to sort out team reports
<AlanBell> thanks pleia2
<IdleOne> topyli: maybe add a blurb about testing the new bot features too? :)
<AlanBell> good idea, so if that is everything . . .
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jul 29 18:38:58 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-29-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-29-18.00.html
<AlanBell> thanks everyone
<topyli> IdleOne: would a link to m4v's mail suffice (with a little blurb of course)?
<IdleOne> topyli: yeah. also the access list will have to be modified a little in that channel to allow non-ubuntu members to set some bans. it is a testing channel so I don't think much damaga can be done.
<IdleOne> damage*
<topyli> how? you're talking to topyli here :)
<IdleOne> topyli: by poking one of your fellow ircc members and making them do it :)
<topyli> oh that's something i'm good at
<IdleOne> topyli: m4v could probably help with that also
<topyli> yeah
<Unit193> AlanBell: Wasn't there an idea to have all channels OPs have the same flag template?
<AlanBell> yes, that is in progress
<Unit193> What template?
<IdleOne> topyli: one thing I don't understand. 20 years on IRC and you still don't know how to set flags :P
<AlanBell> +Aiotv (with exceptions)
<Unit193> +r can be quite handy though.
<IdleOne> if an op is being banned from a channel, they shouldn't be able to unban themselves
<topyli> IdleOne: i know how to set them, but i never learned what they mean :)
<IdleOne> /msg chanserv help flags
<Unit193> IdleOne: And /cs quiet IdleOne  is quite handy, less noise.
<topyli> i know that too. i'm running out of excuses. stop that! :)
<IdleOne> Unit193: Sorry if my opinions are noisy
<Unit193> IdleOne: No, as in chanserv quiets and there is no op/deop. :P
<IdleOne> I thought we were not supposed to hide behind chanserv
<Unit193> Let me show you in -test channel.
<AlanBell> probably best to show who is doing it mostly
<AlanBell> but yes, #ubuntu-bots-test is the place to play
<LjL> AlanBell, my session is at 13:00 UTC, not 17, i think
<AlanBell> LjL: oops, sorry
<AlanBell> LjL: I think I got it mixed up in my head with Myrtti's session, I will make sure it is 13:00
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-22
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<chrisccoulson_> hi
<sarnold> hello
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 22 16:43:22 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Christian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) provided a debdiff for precise for osc (LP: #1197639). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1197639 in osc (Ubuntu) " Improper sanitization of terminal emulator escape sequences when displaying build log and build status" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197639
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place
<jdstrand> last week was crazy and I still have to patch pilot
<jdstrand> *sigh*
<jdstrand> I'm preparing for the IoM demo and sprint this week
<jdstrand> there are also pending updates
<jdstrand> a bunch of new MIRs came in too, including the mir MIR
<jdstrand> so, we'll have to come up with a plan for all those too
<jdstrand> I think that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and there's a new mysql version to package up/test/release
<mdeslaur> do I'll probably be spending my time on that
<mdeslaur> I still have a couple of updates in the ppa to test
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor stuff again this week.
<sbeattie> Priority is stuff for the IoM demo, namely getting the apparmor hook implemented, now that the some the details of that have been finalized.
<sbeattie> I have some other misc apparmor stuff to pick up.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm doing final testing on the apparmor changes that I made to support the DBus policy syntax
<tyhicks> What's left is coercing the regression suite to let me launch a confined dbus service and a confined client to test the peer=(label=/foo) conditional
<tyhicks> I plan on pushing everything to the dbus-dev PPA today
<tyhicks> then I'll switch to the content-hub work items
<tyhicks> after that, I'm still trying to get to the ecryptfs patch review that I mentioned last week
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jj is out
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I've got some apparmor patch review, and five MIR audits, likely I'll get through two or three of the MIR audits this week.. I'm still hopeful for an apparmor 2.8.2 release, but since I don't think it blocks anything else, it might flal through the cracks again this week.
<sbeattie> sarnold: yeah, sorry I didn't push on the 2.8.2 release with you last week
<sarnold> oh yes, Thomas Hood has been extremely helpful in launchpad tryig to help me fix up my dnsmasq annoyances, so I'll probably put some time towards that -- he's friendly and willing to help, gotta hit while the iron is hot :)
<sarnold> sbeattie: *nod* same here
<sarnold> chrisccoulson_: you're up
<chrisccoulson_> hello :)
<chrisccoulson_> at the end of last week i started testing the latest chromium. i'm going to finish that this evening and then publish it
<chrisccoulson_> other than that, i've had another busy week hacking on oxide. we have a meeting with stakeholders tomorrow, and i might even be able to show it working then as well (if it goes well this evening)
<chrisccoulson_> but certainly, i aim to have it working this week
<jdstrand> oh, nice :)
<chrisccoulson_> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> sbeattie: meant to ask during your bit. is the click hook still on track for the demo?
<sbeattie> yes, I think so.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: is there anything I can play with today? I can wait til tomorrow if needed
 * jdstrand needs to package evilapp for it
<sbeattie> not quite yet, still need to make a little more progress on it.
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/uzbl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cyrus-imapd-2.4.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hawtjni.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rt-authen-externalauth.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/encfs.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, sarnold, chrisccoulson_: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 22 17:07:59 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-16.43.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-16.43.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<tyhicks> thanks
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<mdz> pitti, ping
<pitti> hey mdz, how are you?
<mdz> pitti, sorry it took me so long to send out the minutes from last TB
<mdz> you were supposed to chair this time but I was not sure if you realized
<pitti> I didn't, but I can
<mdz> are you able?
<mdz> oh good, thank
<mdz> s
<rickspencer3> o/
<rickspencer3> hi pitti and mdz, I am here this time
<mdz> hello rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> sorry, I missed last time, I was on holiday, and then didn't know that I was invited to the last one :/
<cjwatson> hi
<pitti> kees, soren: here?
<pitti> stgraber sent apologies
<cjwatson> stgraber and I are inna pub
 * smb whished he could be
<pitti> mdz: (moderated, thanks for the summary)
 * stgraber waves
<mdz> btw, who moderates technical-board@?
<mdz> I think my posts there are being caught in moderation
<pitti> mdz: I, amongst others; but I didn't notice posts from you
<mdz> listadmin says it's empty though
<mdz> hmm, I'll just resend
<pitti> mdz: yeah, I cleared it as part of my u-d-a@ moderation
<pitti> but there was nothing from you
<pitti> anyway,
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 22 20:01:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<soren> o/
<pitti> hey soren
<pitti> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<pitti> kees to review outstanding provisional MREs -- as he doesn't seem to be here, I guess we defer this?
<pitti> I don't see anything else, did I miss something?
<pitti> #topic development series alias name
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: development series alias name
<kees> hi! here now
<pitti> apparently this was being discussed last time, with: current proposals are "rolling" (preferred by Rick) and "next' (preferred by the TB).
<kees> still looking at mres
<pitti> oh, hey kees!
<pitti> kees: ok, so carrying over is ok?
<kees> yeah, thanks
<pitti> OOI, does "preferred by the TB" mean that everyone else on the TB likes "next" better, or was it "just" a majority?
<kees> everyone preferred "next"
<pitti> "rolling" seems to be more of a goal/promise still, while we might need to change "next" again in the future which would make the change pointless
<ScottK> Since the last meeting I sent in a request for extending the KDE MRE, does that get covered in kees' action or discussed separately?
<pitti> ScottK: I think it's a separate discussion, kees' was only for the existing provisional MREs
<mdz> pitti, it was unanimous among the TB
<pitti> ScottK: I replied on-list
<kees> ScottK: separate, I was reviewing existing for their update histories
<mdz> but we wanted rickspencer3 to have a chance to weigh in
<rickspencer3> is it time to discuss "rolling" vs. "next"? or was that a pre-amble?
<ScottK> OK.
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, please go
<rickspencer3> ok
<mdz> rickspencer3, it is time
<cjwatson> might need to change> could you elaborate?
<pitti> mdz: (two more of your "no more re-election for me" mails on tb@, FYI; but I got the original alreadY)
<pitti> cjwatson: I mean at a time when we actually drop the non-LTS releases
<pitti> and have an actual rolling release
<pitti> AFAIUI, this was merely deferred, not entirely rejected by sabdfl?
<cjwatson> I am mostly neutral, i.e. mostly just want the discussion to be done
<pitti> but "rolling" at this time is aiming a bit high indeed, although we do better than I initially feared
<kees> that will be a sad day (dropping non-LTS)
<mdz> pitti, still zero on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-July/thread.html
<pitti> with 9 months of support it's not that much of a release anyway
<cjwatson> I had a very slight preference for next I suppose
<rickspencer3> kees, well, naturally I beg to differ
<kees> rickspencer3: :)
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> I don't have a strong opinion, but I slightly prefer "rolling" as that's what the effect is for the user
<kees> i prefer the short stable to long stable
<rickspencer3> is this the time when I should make my case?
<cjwatson> yes
<pitti> rickspencer3: please, just speak up
<rickspencer3> ok, first, thanks for inviting me
<kees> the 6 month cadance, is to me, what makes ubuntu so great.
<pitti> rickspencer3: (we don't have a formal "you have the mike" usually)
<kees> (if I could spell)
<rickspencer3> so, I think that "rolling" is much better than "next"
<rickspencer3> the "development" release is really usable every day, and has been since 12.04
<rickspencer3> this sym link will provide the experience of a rolling release, you are always on the tip, and it flips over when we release
<rickspencer3> I think "rolling" describes the experience quite well, and "next" does not describe this experience
<rickspencer3> I also think the notion of "next" is a result of thinking about Ubuntu development the way we used to do it
<mdz> "rolling" to me implies a continuous flow, rather than stepwise upgrades
<rickspencer3> calling it "next" suggests that it will only be useful in the future
<cjwatson> one of my concerns is that we still have DIF, and that there seems to be pressure against changing rust
<rickspencer3> mdz well, I think that's exactly what the sym link will provide
<cjwatson> that
<kees> it's not a release, and I want there to be no confusion. "usable" does not mean "stable" which is what a release means to me.
<rickspencer3> kees, well, that's fine
<pitti> mdz: and that's what it is, isn't it?
<rickspencer3> I'm not sure how to express it then
<kees> "next" is what it is. it's unfinished
<kees> and seems nicer than calling the symlink "usable" :)
<rickspencer3> kees, but that suggests that you are using something that will reach some point of completeness later
<pitti> I find "next" a little unspecific -- the next what?
<mdz> pitti, not to me. "rolling" is more like debian unstable or testing, with only incremental updates
<mdz> what we're talking about here is a big batch of updates every 6 months
<mdz> no?
<pitti> err, do we?
<rickspencer3> mdz no
<kees> next ubuntu release is what it is. you're always running what's next.
<mdz> ok, I'm confused then
<rickspencer3> what it would mean is that you were using what we would essentially call the "development version"
<pitti> I thought right now {next,rolling} == saucy, and it would be t as soon as we release saucy
<mdz> it's been a month and I hardly remember the discussion
<pitti> i. e. "always the devel release"
<rickspencer3> then the day that version releases, the sym link gets moved to the next version
<kees> mdz: it's an alias like "sid" or "unstable"
<cjwatson> we don't in practice roll for the last three months or so
<mdz> ok
<pitti> right, it sometimes flies and sometimes crawls
<mdz> I don't really mind what it's called then
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, actually, I think we d
<rickspencer3> o
<cjwatson> we so font
<cjwatson> don't
<mdz> all I remember is that hackles went up when "rolling release" was mentioned
<cjwatson> gah swype
<pitti> I'd prefer devel > rolling > next, but no strong opinion to argue about it for a long time
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, maybe I don't know what you mean
<rickspencer3> but it seems to me that I get lots of changes at the end of the cycle, sometimes big ones
 * ScottK raises hands for hackles over rolling.  It seems inaccurate.
<kees> right. it's not a release and "rolling" is already too associated with that concept.
<cjwatson> we stop taking new upstreams routinely
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, true
<cjwatson> that is what people expect from rolling
<rickspencer3> it slows down, but we take many big changes
<cjwatson> from Canonical
<rickspencer3> we take a kernel, no?
<ScottK> The big changes at the end are because people can't keep a schedule, not because it's supposed to be that way.
<cjwatson> not really from elsewhere
<kees> kernel is frozen almost before  anything else
<cjwatson> a bit, but I really do not think that is what people expect
<rickspencer3> ok
<cjwatson> they want us to just keep going and not freeze
<rickspencer3> to me, the essence of "rolling" is really that you just subscribe to the sym link
<rickspencer3> you expect your desktop always works
<rickspencer3> and you get changes as fast as Ubuntu puts them in
<cjwatson> I honestly don't think that's what everyone else means
<rickspencer3> and there never is a "release"
<cjwatson> I am happy to make the symlink work and would like to
<cjwatson> but it's not rolling
<kees> rickspencer3: i have no problem with the idea of the symlink. we all agreed that was great. just the name was the issue.
<rickspencer3> kees, sure, it;s fine
<pitti> we don't have a good precedent for rolling to compare it against really
<rickspencer3> I was asked to come and explain why I liked "rolling"
<rickspencer3> I appreciate the opportunity
<pitti> even sid isn't truly rolling in that sense, it had been frozen for over a year
<rickspencer3> I don't really like "next" at all
<rickspencer3> but, I am not on the TB
<pitti> FWIW, I don't like "next" either, it doesn't tell me anything; I'd rather have "devel" then, as that's what it actually is -- the current development series
<kees> rickspencer3: we reviewed the suggested list from uds. if rolling is bad and next is bad, we need a new list, i think
<rickspencer3> I think I would prefer for the TB to make a decision
<rickspencer3> If it's arbitrary, then I would ask that you pick "rolling"
<rickspencer3> but if it's not, I really would support whatever
<rickspencer3> kees, does that make sense?
<mdz> this is basically invisible to users, right?
<mdz> who is the name important to?
<kees> sure
<ScottK> Except they'll have to opt in to it somehow
<ScottK> They'll be opting in to a name.
<mdz> they will?
<kees> i don't want any mistake made about it being a release. that's my criteria
<rickspencer3> mdz yes
<mdz> seems like we would have the opportunity to describe in prose what they're getting
<pitti> it somehow needs to be exposed in software-properties
<mdz> rather than just giving them a word
<rickspencer3> but we could describe the feature in the GUI however we wanted
<rickspencer3> so, you make a good point
<rickspencer3> it's doubly arbitrary
<mdz> and yet it seems important to you and ScottK
<pitti> kees: in that regard, terminology is already flawed; neither "rolling" nor "devel" are actual releases
<pitti> they are precisely the series which are *not* released, after all :)
<cjwatson> we were also going to let developers upload to it
<kees> "rolling" has alreadt been publically associated with being a release
<ScottK> If it wasn't already a package name, I'd suggest horizon, since no matter how long you go towards it, you never get there.
<kees> "devel" is accurate, but so many things are called devel
<pitti> but how is "rolling" a release, in any sense of the word?
<cjwatson> so it's not arbitrary,it will influence developer behaviour
<cjwatson> and I'm
<ScottK> pitti: It's not and that was part of the problem with the proposal.  We ought not mix this up with that.
<cjwatson> concerned that it's incompatible with our current freeze processes
<kees> pitti: it is not pitti it wouldn't be in reality, but existing persepctions will confuse it
<mdz> how about we agree to delegate to http://www.dotomator.com/web20.html
<rickspencer3> mdz fine "Voope" it is
<mdz> I like "zoomdog"
<pitti> "Thoughtpath"
<cjwatson> ha
<kees> zoomdog. winnar
 * ScottK got "Gabify".
<ScottK> I think that's what's going on right now.
<mdz> I want to cry when I think of all the brain power that has already been absorbed by this question
<pitti> so, as this is a rather classic bikeshedding argument and we could be here all night, how about we just vote on the existing proposals and get it done? or rickspencer3, would you like to discuss more?
<kees> rickspencer3: you don't like "next" but would be okay with it since it's not very visible?
<rickspencer3> pitti, I've said all I can say, I think
<mdz> pitti, +1 on drawing to a quick conclusion
<rickspencer3> kees, I don't like "next", but I don't think me being "okay with it" is terribly apropos
<rickspencer3> I think this is a TB decision
<rickspencer3> and I won't quit Ubuntu if I don't get my way
<rickspencer3> ;)
<pitti> so, our options are "next" and "rolling", or were there any others?
<kees> rickspencer3: well, I'd prefer something you're happy with
<pitti> has "devel" even been on the table from the UDS discussin?
<mdz> all things considered, we can't possibly consider all things
<kees> pitti: the list we looked at was from uds,but I can't find the url
<rickspencer3> kees, I don't see how we will get past this
<rickspencer3> in a way that makes everyone totally happy
<kees> devel was on it.
<rickspencer3> and it is such a small small thing in the scheme of things
<cjwatson> I would prefer tofind something everyone likes, but that doesn't seem possible
<pitti> kees: ah, ok; so in between rolling, next, and devel?
<rickspencer3> rolling it is!
<rickspencer3> good choice
<rickspencer3> next topic?
<kees> and things like head, master, tip, etc
<cjwatson> I'm not vehemently against rolling, but I see definite problems with it
<pitti> for counting I propose three separate votes, one for each name; multiple +1 allowed, the one with the most votes wins; ok?
<mdz> sure
<pitti> (I can't figure out CC at this time of the night)
<mdz> but risks a tie
<kees> that's probably best
 * rickspencer3 braces
<mdz> at least it's fast
<pitti> #vote series name for "always at development series" is: "rolling"
<meetingology> Please vote on: series name for "always at development series" is: "rolling"
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pitti> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pitti
<kees> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from kees
<mdz> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from mdz
<stgraber> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from stgraber
<cjwatson> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from cjwatson
<soren> -1 (zoomdog ftw1)
<meetingology> -1 (zoomdog ftw1) received from soren
<pitti> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: series name for "always at development series" is: "rolling"
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:3 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion denied
<pitti> #vote series name for "always at development series" is: "next"
<meetingology> Please vote on: series name for "always at development series" is: "next"
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mdz> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from mdz
<pitti> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from pitti
<kees> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kees
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<pitti> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: series name for "always at development series" is: "next"
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pitti> #vote series name for "always at development series" is: "devel"
<meetingology> Please vote on: series name for "always at development series" is: "devel"
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pitti> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pitti
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<kees> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from kees
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<pitti> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: series name for "always at development series" is: "devel"
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<soren> Wow. Unexpected.
<pitti> wow
<mdz> I demand a recount with condorcet voting
<pitti> so we name the developmetn series ... "devel"?
<kees> lol
<rickspencer3> devel
<pitti> mdz: if you know the procedure, please do
<soren> So we spend weeks debating about "next" vs "rolling" and end up choosing "devel". I love it.
<mdz> pitti, kidding
<rickspencer3> ?
<ScottK> It's possible there was some strategic voting there.
<soren> It's no zoomdog, but hey.
<rickspencer3> Interestingly I just bought a condo in a small condo building. There is no storage, so no where to store my bike. So, in a couple of weeks I need to start a literal discussion about a bike shed.
<kees> red!
<cjwatson> ScottK:not from me
<beuno> rickspencer3, surely it will be names rolling? :)
<pitti> ScottK: order shouldn't have mattered?
 * ScottK was kidding (mostly)
<kees> i voted how I felt. devel over rolling, but not really FOR it
<rickspencer3> it's funny that we have so much trouble naming this "thing"
<pitti> so, anyone who wants to propose something new, please start a new thread and try to convince people that it's really a lot better :)
<ScottK> The bikeshed is painted now.  that's the main thing.
<pitti> *phew*
<pitti> rickspencer3: thanks for being at the meeting
<pitti> #topic Discussion and vote on OpenSSL as a system library. Follow-up fro mthe last couple of meetings and ML discussion.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Discussion and vote on OpenSSL as a system library. Follow-up fro mthe last couple of meetings and ML discussion.
 * ScottK thought that was voted on last time.
<pitti> I thought this had already been concluded at the last meeting, according to mdz's summary?
<kees> that's settled
<mdz> yes, I thought so too
<mdz> I didn't get to updating the wiki
<pitti> ack, thanks
<mdz> I barely got the minutes out
<pitti> #topic Xen MRE for upstream stable releases (Stefan Bader)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xen MRE for upstream stable releases (Stefan Bader)
<smb> \o
<kees> if there have been good srus, I' for a provisional. it sounds like it gets good testing
<pitti> I didn't reply because even from my years-long SRU time I can't remember a xen SRU
<smb> kees, not sure what exactly you mean by some good srus
<kees> smb	have there been xen SRUs already?
<smb> pitti, Usually only cves
<pitti> it seems a bit surprising that maintenance suddenly has gone up, but if it did, I'm fine with a provisional MRE as well
<kees> that didn't have regressions?
<smb> But since a while there is also upstream stable releases
<smb> (and probably none yet really looked there)
<pitti> smb: right, but these aren't subject to SRU restrictions anyway
<smb> No, I started to think about it as
<smb> a) it is a bit like we already do with the kernel
<smb> b) security patches are based on the latest stable series
<smb> And the upstream stable releases go through reviews and afaik through regression testing
<smb> So it just seems a sensible approach to keep the version maintained even after release without too much more work
<pitti> smb: what kind of testing do, or can we do, on proposed xen updates? like, running various existing test suites on various ubuntu releases under xen ?
<pitti> smb: and what magnitude of changes do we talk about here? like, the occasional bug fix, or lots of reegineering?
<pitti> (the latter would actually surprise me)
<smb> pitti, I am not sure there is really anything going on testing wise beyond the tests I do
<smb> and those are more manual by putting the updated hypervisor on two testboxes (amd and intel) and then fire up thy dom0 and pvm and hvm guest
<smb> pitti, And for magnitude, the number of check-ins may seem large but it is restricted to bugfixes and small contain improvements not re-engenieering
<pitti> ah, reading the proposed diffs now, it's quite a list
<smb> pitti, mostly because I took the commit from git
<pitti> so yeah, not quite possible to verify them all, we need some good regression testing there
<smb> I mean the short version oof commit ids
<smb> pitti, because we don't trust upstream?
<kees> i think we're better off with the fixes than without, so I'd likea provisional mre. if things stay smooth, it should get full mre quickly
<pitti> smb: well, with that magnitude of changes it's not about trust, but about throwing more eyes on it, plus testing it in the ubuntu specific environment/binary build etc, which upstream can't do
<pitti> smb: i. e. a newer xen package on precise might behave differently than what upstream tested on a different kernel?
<smb> pitti, I would always keep with the same minor version (so precise is xen 4.1.x and remains on that stream)
<smb> For raring it would be 4.2.x
<pitti> smb: I think if we can define some regression testing, like "boot the last N releases/LTS default install and verify some list of things (networking, file system test suite, etc.)", we have some standard process which we can even automate
<pitti> smb: right
<smb> pitti, Ah well ok. Though in some way I do those things but the question is how to document and have a tickoff list
<pitti> so a comment like "Would like to see this as upgrading to 13.04/xen 4.2.1 broke pci-e passthrough for me but is fixed in 4.2.2." suggests that upstream microreleases are good to get in, but also that xen is not completely regression proof (which is certainly understandable between major releases)
<pitti> smb: right, hence my question how we currently test them
<pitti> smb: doing these manually sounds cumbersome
<pitti> I agree to kees' "pro provisional MRE", we can discuss some verification strategy with the SRU team in these "update to x.y.z" bugs
<pitti> cjwatson, soren, mdz, stgraber, any objections? ^
<mdz> yes
<pitti> mdz: please go ahead
<stgraber> I'm fine with a provisional MRE
<mdz> oh, sorry, I meant no
<pitti> ah :)
<cjwatson> no objections
<mdz> yes I support a provisional MRE
<pitti> great, that's settled; smb, thanks for joining
<smb> thanks
 * smb goes back melting
<pitti> #agreed provisional MRE for Xen, with defining more formal testing on the first SRU with the SRU team
<pitti> #topic extending KDE MRE (ScottK)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: extending KDE MRE (ScottK)
<pitti> I'm mostly +1 on this (as I said on the ML), with the exception of lightdm-kde where I would like to know first what kind of changes goes into it
 * ScottK is researching that now
<stgraber> When was that sent tl the ML?
<cjwatson> link would be good
<pitti> my gut feeling is that we should be rather careful with this, and while it's certainly ok to update to new upstream microreleases, the individual changes ought to be reviewed more carefully than for the apps
<ScottK> stgraber: Wed Jul 17 15:37:22 2013
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-July/001666.html was ScottK's mail
<pitti> hm, my response hasn't gotten to the archive yet
<ScottK> I got it though.
<pitti> other than what I said above, I just said "I experienced several of those during my active ~ubuntu-sru time and
<pitti> can confirm this."
<pitti> those == KDE SRUs
<stgraber> hmm, must have missed this... and no access to email at the moment
<ScottK> We just finished doing 4.10.5 last week.
<pitti> ScottK: yeah, the magic of CC: :)
<stgraber> list looks reasonable to me
 * stgraber looks some more
<pitti> to me as well, with the only "paranoia" bit that jumps out being lightdm-kde
<pitti> although I guess that's mostly the chrome, not the plumbings
<ScottK> We don't have an immediate need for that as raring has the current release.
<ScottK> Yes, it should be just the front end bits.
<stgraber> lightdm-kde is a separate frontend for lightdm, so if it's maintained by the kubntu folks with the same process as other kde packages, I'm fine with it
<kees> yeah, I agree with pitti. looks good with questions about lightdm-kde. :)
<pitti> and to be fair, I would have counted all of these as "KDE" as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions anyway ..
<ScottK> OK.  We've been pretty strict about limiting it to the core KDE.
<pitti> ok, so it seems no further questions/objections?
<pitti> ScottK: so, seems we have a winner!
<ScottK> Great.
<pitti> ScottK: do you want to keep lightdm-kde in the list, or rather put it back to reviewing individual changes?
<pitti> TBH I don't have a really good idea how sensitive it would be to different hw/acceleration and the like
<ScottK> Let's wait until there's an update and then I'll bring it back with a concrete example in hand.
<pitti> ack
<pitti> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<pitti> nothing else that I can see
<ScottK> If the archive was up to date, there would be something.
<pitti> my mailbox also doesn't have anything else
<pitti> and mutt makes them stand out in green for me :)
<ScottK> Not that we expect the TB to act on it today, but Laney, on behalf of the TB, sent out a proposal on modifying PPU.
<ScottK> Message-ID: <20130722200701.GC22297@iota>
<pitti> oh, in fact I just got it
<ScottK> (I got a copy via the TB list)
<pitti> but it's longish, perhaps we could give us some time to digest
<ScottK> This is something to review and consider.
<mdz> ah, hadn't seen that as I was looking at the archive
<mdz> reading now
<mdz> ah, yes, we're out of time anyway
<pitti> I propose to carry?
<ScottK> Yes.  I wanted to bring it to your attention to reivew.
<pitti> thanks
<ScottK> Yes
<pitti> #topic beer
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: beer
<pitti> err, I meant
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 22 20:59:59 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-20.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-20.01.html
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<kees> thanks pitti!
<ScottK> FInished 1 second early even.
<mdz> thanks pitti
<pitti> mdz: creating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/13/July now, in case you want to add your report there, too
<mdz> pitti, I looked for that last time and couldn't even find the page. it seemed like that whole wiki structure was dead
<mdz> maybe it was just lagging?
<ScottK> pitti: FYI, I've updated the MRE page to reflect the KDE related changes today.
<pitti> ScottK: ah splendid, thanks! I was just about to do it, I sent the minutes to uda now
<ScottK> I didn't do anything with xen.
<pitti> right, I'll do that
<pitti> hm, I sent a mail wrt. autopkgtest to u-d-a this morning; quo vadis, ML archive?
<pitti> added Xen, I just don't have an u-d-a@ ML link for it yet
<pitti> that's it, good night everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-23
 * barry waves
<lool> hey
<lool> stgraber, ondra, ogra_: heyo
<ogra_> moo
<lool> barry: should we start with download service?
<barry> lool: sure
<barry> so, i uploaded a new version last night with dbus support
<barry> stgraber: pointed to a problem with config file updates: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1204090
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1204090 in Ubuntu system image "Drop 'device' from client.ini" [Critical,In progress]
<barry> so i'll be getting an 0.8 out this morning
<barry> had a chat with seb yesterday.  his team was going to start work on the update ui.  i'll circle round to him today, though i am on patch pilot for at least half the day
<lool> barry: so even after deleting client.ini today, I'll have to repeat every day until this is solved?
<barry> we sketched out a very basic interaction pattern, so i think the minimal ui will be doable
<ondra> lool: hey
<barry> lool: yeah, but hopefully "every day" will be just "today"
<barry> 0.8 will have only this fix and then you won't have to edit client.ini to set the device model any more
<barry> anyway, i think that's about it for the client
<lool> barry: so when do you think you would have a simple UI for an update?  (even if partial)
<barry> d/l service. i have to circle back to mandel to see where/when/if that is landing
<lool> barry: download service should be all landed now
<barry> lool: ah, good.
<barry> lool: i'm still aiming for tomorrow
<barry> (on the ui
<barry> )
<lool> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-download-manager
<lool> libubuntudownloadmanager1 and ubuntu-download-manager are in the images
<lool> barry: ok
<barry> excellent.  i'm still not going to integrate that until after the demo most likely
<barry> done
<lool> barry: yeah; we had noted the download service as an action on you last week, just wanted to close this topic
<lool> since it's all landed now
<barry> +1
<lool> oh wow, we even have unity-scope-click in the image too !
<sergiusens> lool: beuno was going to demo that afaik
<lool> sergiusens: yeah
<lool> so I think stgraber isn't around
<lool> he was to land gpg in recovery
<lool> but basically everything is landed, updater is announced for adventurous folks
<ogra_> isnt that n since days
<ogra_> ?
<lool> and we had various issues at the time of launch and since the launch
<lool> but getting resolved
<ogra_> though we havent released images since 5 days due to the new policies
<sergiusens> ogra_: stgraber pulls from pending to rebuild the images
<lool> ogra_: yeah but update imgaes are generated from latest image rather than current, so it still works
<barry> ogra_: new policies?
<ogra_> (and i expect releases to not happen for a while until all bits ship full tests that utah can run)
<ogra_> barry, 100% test coverage on the dashboard now
<barry> ah
<ogra_> lool, well, we will need a full test of the bits that got added to recovery ...
<lool> barry: now that I read it more carefully, I don't understand how LP 1204090 is critical; is that in the case where the model detection would change over time?!?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204090 in Ubuntu system image "Drop 'device' from client.ini" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204090
<ogra_> theoretically we couldnt release atm
<ogra_> after asac's definition
<lool> ogra_: not sure what you mean
<lool> ogra_: you mean add new testsuites to cover the new bits?
<ogra_> lool, we add ubuntu code to recvery that has zero tests
<ogra_> by the new definition that isnt releasable
<ogra_> so testing gpg and the ubuntu updater scripts would be needed
<ogra_> and proper integration into utah
<barry> lool: no.  if future changes are made to client.ini, they most likely won't get installed (at least easily) since conffile will see a local edit.  i think the point is to remove the need for almost everyone to edit their client.ini file.
<lool> barry: oh ok
<lool> barry: sorry, I get it now
<lool> barry: I thought it was entirely generated
<lool> but it's a conffile *and* gets updated after install, and wont get updated on upgrades anymore
<lool> ok
<barry> nope.  maybe i'll port gentoo's conffile update system to debian :)
<lool> barry: there's ucf too
<barry> yeah
<lool> but this only concerns people who have renabled apt, right?>
<barry> it's better to query the system for the device name anyway
<lool> otherwise you get the new conffile overwritten by a system image update?
<barry> i think that's right
<lool> ogra_: so we do have tests in certain places, but not for everything
<ogra_> lool, right
<lool> ogra_: we also lack end-to-end integration tests
<ogra_> and new features need to ship tests alongside
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> currently all we have are the app tests and default installability
<ogra_> bit for the recovery changes we need tests too
<lool> I'm not sure how practical it would be to have them run daily; I don't really see how that would reasonnably be done, but we could e.g. run update tests from the latest release or something like that
<ogra_> and there should be a test that prevents stuff like above as well
<ogra_> (broken configs etc)
<sergiusens> lool: the end to end stuff we can discuss in our meeting with QA later today
<lool> sergiusens: yeah
<ogra_> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/
<ogra_> thats what we depend on now
<ogra_> and the next daily will only go out if all is green
<lool> ogra_: right; but we need a base image to smoke test an update
<ogra_> (which i suspect might take until the weekend)
<ogra_> lool, right
<lool> I think we covered all actions from last week
<asac> i feel that daily-release should always use last /current + the proposed changes
<asac> in that way we foster a culture of delivering something that will work in one shot
<ogra_> asac, that makes only sense if /current is actually daily
<asac> rather than saying you can have multiple shots to get things right (e.g. we have an option to easily see results against /rpoposed)
<asac> ogra_: sure. it only makes sense if we go strict
<lool> so I guess the only remaining open topics are: a) barry adding UI (high) a') barry fixing LP 1204090 b) barry switching to download service (low) c) sergiusens / ogra_ / lool discussing integration tests
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204090 in Ubuntu system image "Drop 'device' from client.ini" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204090
<barry> lool: seems reasonable
<asac> on /etc ... I think it makes sense to put a zero /etc in any touch image policy
<ogra_> lool, sounds fine
<asac> because its a half broken concept in the new world of system image updates
<ogra_> zero /etc ?
<ogra_> can you elaborate ?
<asac> at best defaults are never shipped in /etc/ anyway, and we can provide other locations to change defaults through .DOT files
<lool> asac: it's more of a template
<asac> lool: those should go to /usr/share/docs :)
<barry> asac: how does that work with convergence?
<asac> right now in the linux world /etc is not cleanly designed
<ogra_> barry, we'll find out in the 14.04 cycle :)
<asac> its used as one place for a) defaults (that should usually go into the app) and b) admininstrative/system wide changes
<barry> ogra_: :)
<asac> i think we hsould go clean about those two approaches in touch :)
<asac> thats all i am saying (now i am out again)
<lool> asac: I don't see a big gain in pushing defaults out of /etc
<lool> this is make-work
<lool> (like merging /usr/bin and /bin or renaming /etc to /config or something)
<lool> anyway
<asac> its not consisten behaviour
 * ogra_ thought /etc is readonly anyway 
<barry> well, at least let's say an irc comment leaves it a bit underspecified :)
<asac> if apt is there
<lool> seems we're getting a bit out of the topic
<ogra_> variable data needs to go into /data
<asac> ogra_: not if apt is back i am sure
<ogra_> asac, ah, no, then not indeed
<lool> ogra_: exactly; except in convergence, or if you swithc to developer mode
<ogra_> lool, i dont see why convergence would have to differ :)
<ogra_> but thats 14,04 stuff
<ogra_> not for now
<lool> ogra_: because of the installer user bsae
<lool> as in, today my /etc is r/w on my laptop
<sergiusens> ogra_: if /etc is read only, where does network mananger setup it's configs?
<lool> sergiusens: /dev/mmcblk0p9 on /var/lib/NetworkManager type ext4 (rw,relatime,user_xattr,acl,barrier=1,data=ordered)
<ogra_> sergiusens, in a tmpfs overlay ? no idea
<lool> sergiusens: bind mounts to writable space
 * ogra_ needs to look into the setup this week 
 * sergiusens needs to check
<ogra_> i had planned to do an install this week
<lool> sergiusens: sorry, I meant: /dev/mmcblk0p9 on /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections type ext4 (rw,relatime,user_xattr,acl,barrier=1,data=ordered)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> thats /data
<sergiusens> lool: and I thought you changed the location :-)
<lool> the other is for more ephemeral stuff
<lool> like dhcp leases and stuff
<ogra_> they go into /run anyway, no ?
<lool> sergiusens: so basically anything which used to write to /var or /etc needs to be diverted to /data
<ogra_> yeah
<asac> yeah :)
<lool> ogra_: not that ephemeral
<asac> and everything that is in /etc should rewally go to doc (template) or /usr/share/ (default settings)
<lool> ogra_: you could remove it, but it's best to keep across reboots
<asac> :()
<lool> e.g. which ssids you've seen and such
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> asac, whats the benefit ?
 * ogra_ doesnt see it 
<lool> asac: I don't think we need to spend engineering cycles moving stuff around in gazillions of packages
<ogra_> if /etc is readonly anyway, why would you want to have apps read from a non std place
<ogra_> yeah, lool expressed that better
<ogra_> seems like a waste
<lool> it's kind of funny to have this argument in this direction with asac
<asac> well, i will cover this topic elsewhere... short term its not on topic
<ogra_> heh
<lool> asac: you're supposed to be more pragmatic than me!  and I ought to advocate beauty of the file hierarchy  :-)
<asac> i am pragmatic
<lool> alright, almost out of time
 * ogra_ sees no beauty in moving configs from /etc to /doc :)
<lool> barry, ondra, ogra_, sergiusens: Anything else we want to cover?
 * barry is good
<lool> also, do we want to keep this meeting?
<ogra_> lool, do we know who will write tests ?
<lool> perhaps until it's used by everyone?
<ogra_> (thats why i brought it up_
<ogra_> i know stgraber will not be around (vacations, etc)
<barry> lool: i think we're far enough along that it most likely won't be necessary for much longer
<ogra_> and we need to switch at some point
<ondra> lool: not much from me, I haven't done much, only recent activity was to help stgraber to resolve gpg problem, but that was 1 tas
<ogra_> but we cant without having tests in place
<lool> ogra_: I would think stgraber would write upgrade tests when he's back?
<ogra_> dunno, i think i remember something about three weeks
<lool> barry: I'm thinking we should cancel next week then have one more meeting to plan enabling for everyone
<ogra_> with parts of that being on/off and parts of that being gone completely
<lool> barry: or would you be interested in writing the upgrades tests in the next weeks?  since stgraber is on leave, you might be a good candidate since you know the upgrade logic inside out  :-)
<lool> barry: would you want to join the call we have with QA folks later?
<lool> ogra_: yeah; release sprint, debconf and other leaves
<barry> lool: when's the call?
<ogra_> lool, right
<lool> barry: 4pm UTC
<lool> barry: adding you
<lool> barry: feel free either way
<lool> alright, closing this meeting them; have a good day everyone!
<barry> lool: sure, np
<lool> *then
<barry> cheers!
<lool> bye all
<ondra> bye
<sergiusens> see you on the channel to the left (or right) (irssi)
<ogra_> bye
<ogra_> sergiusens, pfft ... below
<ogra_> (xchat)
<sergiusens> lol
<Laney> o/
<Laney> oops
<l304> o
<hallyn> o/
<arosales> hello
<jamespage> o/
<smb> \o
<adam_g> o/
<jamespage> lets strt
<jamespage> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 23 16:02:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jamespage> #topic review previous actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: review previous actions
<jamespage> rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<jamespage> rbasak, Daviey- hows that going?
<jamespage> zul:
<jamespage> zul has willfully volunteered to review and document what is blocking server related saucy-proposed migration excuses, with joy.
<jamespage> I think thats all sorted now right
<jamespage> ?
<zul> bah
<zul> almost apache2 again i think
<zul> rbasak:  ^^^
<jamespage> anyone actually here?
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> anyway
<jamespage> #action rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<hallyn> my bot is...
<jamespage> carried forward in their absence
<jamespage> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Saucy Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> Debian Import Freeze is on the 25th July - manual syncs after that point will be required
<jamespage> alpha2 same week - we will be opting out again
<jamespage> also worth noting that 12.04.3 is just under a month away
<jamespage> the QA team now have some dkms auto-testing setup
<jamespage> openvswitch and iscsitarget are going to need some attention in the next two weeks.
<hallyn> ?
<jamespage> (as are lots more I guess)
<jamespage> hallyn, hardware enablement kernels
<rbasak> Oops, sorry. ubuntu-reports is almost ready for an MP. apache2 is done. I'm preparing a merge with an upgrade path bug and SSL passphrase prompting fixed.
<jamespage> 12.04.3 will get rarings 3.8 kernel
<jamespage> rbasak, marvellous!
<hallyn> jamespage: gotcha
<jamespage> next
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<jamespage> I still need to look at asm4 transitions
<jamespage> and quantum service respawns
 * jamespage berates himself again
<yolanda> lua5.2 is pending from review
<jamespage> ack
<hallyn> there's a yucky memleak in libvirt i need to look into
<yolanda> rrdtool and rubyluabridge
<rbasak> bug 1202653 should be targetted for Saucy. It's in hand though - I just want to fix SSL certificate prompting at the same time, write a dep8 test for that, and in any case proposed migration will be blocked as it's seeded in alpha-2 opt-in flavours.
<jamespage> zul: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/+bug/1199791
<ubottu> bug 1202653 in apache2 (Ubuntu) "apache2 2.4.4-6ubuntu4 failed to upgrade: Cannot load /usr/lib/apache2/modules/libphp5.so into server: undefined symbol: unixd_config" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202653
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged]
<jamespage> rbasak, done
<zul> in progrress
<rbasak> thanks
<jamespage> zul, great - thanks
<jamespage> looks like adam_g's cheetah fixup is almost done
<adam_g> yup, should make its way out today
<jamespage> rbasak, whats the latest on bug 1031680?
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<jamespage> and that covers release bugs....
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<rbasak> No progress.
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
<jamespage> use of libv8 in the mongodb shell is causing some security concerns re supportability
<jamespage> which is understandable
<jamespage> looking at a shell disabled variant of the package - but I suspect thats worse than useless
<jamespage> so we might be inthe position where mongodb is not suitable for main inclusion
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-2-delivery
<jamespage> juju2 release going much smoother now
<jamespage> two in the last week
<jamespage> (one for OSCON)
<jamespage> local provider has also landed if no-one noticed - works well (thanks thumper)
<jamespage> roaksoax, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2
<jamespage> whats happening with HA stack for saucy? I know we have had a few conversations?
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-ceph reappears
<jamespage> utlemming, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-webscale
<jamespage> utlemming, are you likely to have capacity to work on this blueprint this release? its already a carry over from raring
<jamespage> zul: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-qa
<jamespage> needs some updates
<zul> jamespage:  ack
<jamespage> quite a few activities need to be worked on still this cycle there - might be work allocating out and postponing anything we know we won't get to this cycle
<jamespage> adam_g, ^^
<hallyn> s/work/worth/ ?
<adam_g> agree
<jamespage> hallyn, yes
<roaksoax> jamespage: sorry i'm supper lagged
<hallyn> k
<jamespage> roaksoax, ack
<jamespage> roaksoax, wanna update now?
 * jamespage gives roaksoax a few to respond
<jamespage> zul: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-havana
<jamespage> lots of things actually done there I think
<jamespage> good point to catchup now that havana2 is landing everywhere
<zul> ill upate it today
<jamespage> arosales, quite a few juju related ones with minimal progress - do you want to go through those now?
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms
<jamespage> adam_g, roaksoax and I have been working on the python redux of the openstack charms
<jamespage> looking quite good now - hopefully we should have a full set of initial versions this week
<adam_g> im hoping to have all of the bash -> python rewrites ready for testing this week
<jamespage> \o/
<jamespage> OK - anyone got any other BP related stuff they wanted to raise/query?
<jamespage> ....
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<yolanda> mine of server banners is stuck, working on other issues
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> yolanda, is that just pending sponsorship or are you getting blocked?
<arosales> jamespage, sorry I was in another window
<yolanda> jamespage, i stopped working on that for a while, working on syncs and merges, and now in charms
<jamespage> yolanda, OK
<jamespage> arosales, juju blueprints?
<yolanda> i got some of them uploaded, bind9 is pending on review
<arosales> jamespage, a couple of the owners are at OSCON so I can take an action to review juju related ones this week
<arosales> #action arosales to review Juju blueprints
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to review Juju blueprints
<jamespage> #action arosales to review juju related blueprints with owners after OSCON
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to review juju related blueprints with owners after OSCON
<jamespage> ooops
<jamespage> oh well - we will remember twice now!
<jamespage> lets move on
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> something called OSCON I think
<jamespage> anyone going?
<hallyn> i'm guessing if they are, they are there already
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> yes
<jamespage> any other events folk want to raise now?
<arosales> m_3 and jcastro @ OSCON
<arosales> giveing a Charm School talk as we chat here
<jamespage> excellent - hope its packed....
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<jamespage> plars, floor is yours
<plars> hi, a couple of bugs are affecting server testing at the moment
<plars> both on the virtual host part
<plars> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1203694 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1203211
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1203211 in linux (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1203694 Modprobe doesn't recognize any parameters on 3.10.0-4" [Critical,Fix committed]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1203211 in linux (Ubuntu) "Modprobe doesn't recognize any parameters on 3.10.0-4" [Critical,Fix committed]
<smb> should be fixed by -5 in proposed
<plars> bot seem to be well on their way though :)
<plars> ack
<rbasak> AIUI the release team are working on landing -5.
<jamespage> excellent
<plars> sounds good
<plars> that's it from me
<jamespage> thanks plars
<jamespage> anyone got anything else qa related while we are here? matsubara maybe?
<jamespage> ....
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jamespage> .
<matsubara> not really
<jamespage> ack
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> There seem also to be some problem with qemu and vmvga crashing the host which apw is working on.
<smb> The bug number slipped my brain though
<smb> ah
<smb> bug 1204005
<ubottu> bug 1204005 in linux (Ubuntu) "[saucy] kvm host hangs of guest boot with 3.10.0-5" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204005
<smb> Apart from that I cannot think of anything hot right now (exccept the weather)
<smb> Are there questions?
<jamespage> smb, thanks
<jamespage> sound like a no for questions...
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<jamespage> not from me
<jamespage> anyone else?
<jamespage> OK
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<jamespage> anything anyone wants to raise?
<arosales> UDS fastly approaching
<jamespage> discuss or otherwise argue about?
<arosales> http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<zul> yeah i raised this
<roaksoax> jamespage: basically, I'm currently updating the cluster stack, which means the removal of 'redhat-cluster' from the archives. All cluster will be based on pacemaker+corosync2.0, gfs2 + dlm (a new package that needs to be uploaded)
<roaksoax> for distributed storage
<roaksoax> /filesystem
<jamespage> roaksoax, man - that is some lag - thanks for the update
<zul> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quantum/+bug/1203766
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1203766 in quantum (Ubuntu) "Please remove from Ubuntu Archive" [Undecided,New]
<roaksoax> and all packages that used to depend on redhat-cluster related dependencies need to be update
<arosales> ah sorry for the dup zul
<jamespage> good point about UDS _ only a month away
<jamespage> good point to recheck on progress for saucy so far
<zul> that should be interesting
<jamespage> just to be clear - quantum is now called neutron if anyone missed that
<jamespage> its not another new core project in openstack
<jamespage> :-)
<jamespage> anyway
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> Tuesday 30th July - 1600 GMT
<jamespage> see you then
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 23 16:36:25 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-23-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-23-16.02.html
<jamespage> thanks folks!
<arosales> jamespage, thanks for chairing
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 23 17:00:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<smb> \o
<kamal> o/
<rtg> o/
<cking> \o
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || foundations-1305-kernel        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack        || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have recently uploaded a new 3.10.0-5.14 Saucy kernel to the archive.
<ogasawara> This includes the v3.10.2 upstream stable patch set, as well as a fix
<ogasawara> for a regression which was causing graphics failures on boot.  We have
<ogasawara> also rebased our unstable branch to begin tracking v3.11-rc2.
<ogasawara> I also want to again point out that the 12.04.3 point release is
<ogasawara> approaching on Thurs Aug 22.  Any kernel patches needing to land in the
<ogasawara> 12.04.3 point release need to be applied to our Raring kernel tree on
<ogasawara> or before Mon July 29 in order to hit the SRU cadence before the point
<ogasawara> release.  Please get any patches submitted to the mailing list for
<ogasawara> proper review as soon as possible.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> Thurs July 25 - Alpha 2 (opt in, 2 days)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 22 - 12.04.3 (~4 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (July 23):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Regression testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Regression testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Regression testing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Regression testing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<kamal> o/
<jsalisbury> kamal, go
<kamal> folks playing with 3.11-rc2 should be aware that acpi backlight is borked for many systems...  a revert of the offending commits is planned in advance of 3.11-rc3.
<kamal> ..
<jsalisbury> kamal, thanks for the heads up.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> The next two meetings will be canceled due to the kernel team sprint.  The next meeting will be August 13th, 2013.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 23 17:05:32 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-23-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-23-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-24
<ev> cjwatson and others: can't do the mumble dance today. I'm getting password denied errors and I suspect I wont be able to resolve that in the next 20 minutes
<cjwatson> Yeah, I don't think I can participate from sprint room
<cjwatson> Hi folks
 * barry waves
<cjwatson> Steve is mired in a four-hour meeting this afternoon, so asked me to chair
<jodh> o/
<cjwatson> We should probably send cookies or something
<stokachu> cjwatson: i dont have any pressing issues today
<barry> ;/
<ev> hi
<cjwatson> stokachu: OK, will drop you from the lightning round, thanks
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 24 15:01:56 2013 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<stokachu> np
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray cjwatson xnox)
<cjwatson> bdmurray doko jodh xnox barry stgraber cjwatson ev
<ev> win!
<cjwatson> Hope everyone is here, I didn't have a chance to check the holiday calendar
<jodh> cjwatson: I think xnox is on hols.
<barry> mumble was just jodh and barry
 * stgraber waves
<cjwatson> Brian is on holiday too
<cjwatson> doko: around?
 * ev watches the tumbleweeds roll by
<cjwatson> I guess we should move on, maybe he'll catch up
<cjwatson> jodh:
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - python module (for DEP-8 integration tests):
<jodh>     - Meeting with pitti, jibel and racb re bug 1158391.
<ubottu> bug 1158391 in Auto Package Testing "ability to have a DEP-8 test run a test in a separate full system environment" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158391
<jodh>     - Discussions with xnox+barry on how to get my sub-sub-class tests
<jodh>       to run correctly.
<jodh>     - Split tests out of existing module into:
<ev> I'm sure everyone is just at the bank, negotiating how they're going to pay for a "one of a kind" Ubuntu Edge
<jodh>       - Session-level Upstart Tests (non-priv and root user).
<jodh>       - System-level Upstart tests (root user only).
<jodh>     - Added a few new state/session methods to the module.
<jodh>     - Wrote a DEP-8 "test" to create a chroot environment that will be
<jodh>       used by the python tests.
<jodh>     - Made good progress on writing the System-level Upstart tests.
<jodh>       Currently hitting a D-Bus issue with the module.
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Reviewed and merged:
<jodh>     lp:~ted/upstart/dbus-configure-event
<jodh>     lp:~ted/upstart/dbus-arguments.
<jodh>   - Fixed a bug in the Upstart apport hook.
<jodh>   - upstart/android bridge:
<jodh>     - wrote a basic bridge over the w/e:
<jodh>       lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-text-bridge
<jodh>     - still has a silly name. Possible contenders for a better one are:
<jodh>       - upstart-comms-bridge
<jodh>       - upstart-injection-bridge
<jodh>       - upstart-recv-bridge
<jodh>       - upstart-peer-bridge
<jodh>       - upstart-client-bridge
<jodh>       - upstart-host-bridge
<jodh>       - upstart-proxy-bridge
<jodh>       - upstart-external-bridge
<jodh>       Vote now! :)
<cjwatson> upstart-london-bridge </not-really>
<jodh>    - Modified watchprops to be an Android service that talks to the upstart-text-bridge:
<jodh>      http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=ubuntu/upstart-property-watcher.git;a=tree
<jodh> â
<jodh> :)
<jodh> upstart-edge-bridge maybe?
<barry> assuming xnox is afk
<barry> system-image-updates: LP: #1192585, LP: #1202915, LP: #1202283, LP: #1204090.  upload 0.7, working on 0.8. meetings (weekly, QA team).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192585 in Ubuntu system image "Add a dbus API" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192585
<barry> other: python bug 18531 (**kws and METH_KEYWORDS).  LP: #1203374 (turns out, fubar w/ -4 kernel), patch piloting.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1202915 in Ubuntu system image "The client reboots the phone when there's no update" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1202283 in Ubuntu system image "system-image-cli -v should display the files that are being downloaded" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202283
<barry> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204090 in Ubuntu system image "Drop 'device' from client.ini" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204090
<ubottu> bug 18531 in Ubuntu "lam: new changes from Debian require merging" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1203374 in HPLIP "hplip fails between 3.12.6-3.1 and 3.13.4-1+b1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203374
<cjwatson> barry: he's on holiday
<stgraber> jodh: upstart-simple-bridge? (anyway, whatever we choose is going to be vague and confusing ;))
<stgraber> So I unfortunately don't have something to copy/paste
<stgraber> but I've been fixing system-image stuff last week
<stgraber> once everything worked I posted https://www.stgraber.org/2013/07/20/introducing-the-ubuntu-touch-image-based-upgrader/
<jodh> stgraber: yeah, maybe that might work ;)
<stgraber> I wrote a few more tools this week to help with cleanup of system-image and day to day maintenance
<ev> "The images usually boot and work"
<stgraber> otherwise, I've been doing release-related work this week
<ev> cute
<stgraber> and I'll be away pretty much all of next week
<stgraber> DONE
<stgraber> ev: well, the images I import currently come from "pending" not "current" so I'm ignoring Jenkins, hence the "usually boot" :)
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package:
<cjwatson>  - PackageKit backports.
<cjwatson>  - Redesigned the hooks specification to be actually implementable, and implemented it.
<ev> :)
<cjwatson>  - Helped out Steve Beattie and Jamie Strandboge with the AppArmor hook.
<stgraber> I haven't had one that didn't boot yet though (on nexus4 and nexus7)
<cjwatson>  - Wrote a first-pass desktop file hook.
<cjwatson>  - Reviewed, adjusted, and merged "click pkgdir" from Ted Gould.
<cjwatson> Release engineering sprint:
<cjwatson>  - Image build pipeline review.
<cjwatson>  - Minor fiddling with changelogs.ubuntu.com.
<cjwatson>  - Designed livefs builds in Launchpad, with William Grant, Adam Conrad, and Steve Kowalik.
<cjwatson>  - Working on proper build cancellation, which we've worked out is a prerequisite for moving livefs builds.  Attempting to inhale enough knowledge of how buildd-manager and the buildd slaves work.
<cjwatson> Finally jammed Apache 2.4 into saucy.
<cjwatson> ..
<ev> - Further Cassandra on prodstack fun. We really painted ourselves into a
<ev>   corner. Fortunately, we now have a support contract with Acunu \o/, so happy
<ev>   times soon.
<ev> - Further work on the Touch UI for error reporting configuration. We ran into
<ev>   some interesting problems around using QDBus* in that it doesn't really
<ev>   handle service activation well - you need to watch for NameOwnerChanged
<ev>   rather than relying on isValid(). That probably makes no sense. Diffs:
<ev>   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ev/ubuntu-system-settings/diagnostics/revision/133
<ev>   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ev/ubuntu-system-settings/diagnostics/revision/134
<ev> - Fixes to whoopsie-preferences and shepherding it into main.
<ev> - Participated in Juju GUI user testing. It's looking amazing. I cannot wait to
<ev>   use this in production, especially the deployment collections.
<ev> - Learned about weak symbols in GCC and put to use in a unit test of the
<ev>   uploading code in whoopsie. This should make developing a broader API between
<ev>   whoopsie and daisy a lot easier (need to support report uploads, core
<ev>   uploads, server-side hooks, etc).
<ev> - Started learning Acunu Analytics. Deployed to canonistack and started data
<ev>   modelling with its API. James is blocking us moving to this until after we've
<ev>   finished the Cassandra cluster migration, understandably. We should be able
<ev>   to make it fairly safe in production by tuning the Cassandra 1.2 ACLs to only
<ev>   give it read access to the Error Tracker column families. It's very
<ev>   responsive - this should solve a lot of problems for us, namely showing the
<ev>   top problems in a rolling 24 hour period (rather than "20130724") in
<ev>   realtime, as well as the "what's interesting about this problem?" section.
<ev> done!
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<cjwatson> I guess we can skip this this week, as we have no Brian, unless anyone has anything to ask about
<barry> nope
<stgraber> nope
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Error tracking
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Error tracking
<cjwatson> So I asked Evan to lead our discussion topic this week, on errors.ubuntu.com
<ev> grab a warm beverage, it's story time
<cjwatson> I know we typically get novels in the lightning round :-)
<ev> oops, I spoke out of turn :)
 * ev cracks his knuckles
<ev> Hi!
<ev> The biggest thing going on with the Error Tracker is the move from a six node
<ev> cluster running on traditional servers to a 12 node cluster running on juju,
<ev> prodstack, and Ceph (distributed storage, similiar to EBS but not shit).
<cjwatson> But perhaps we can hear a more contextful tale of where we are and where we're going soon here
<cjwatson> Go for it :)
<ev> This was needed for two reasons.
<ev> One, we've overtaxed the existing nodes to the point where they don't have
<ev> enough free space to run compaction (Cassandra doesn't do deletes per se, it
<ev> writes tombstones and cleans up the mess periodically). They're also holding
<ev> too much data. Each node carries about 3TB when they should have no more than
<ev> 1TB. This makes everything slower and less fault-tolerant.
<ev> Two, we have no backup. This isn't as scary as it sounds - the data is
<ev> replicated on at least two nodes (previously 3), but it means we cannot upgrade
<ev> Cassandra to a modern version (we're on 1.0.7 hoping to go to 1.2/2.0) without
<ev> fear of it eating the world. We cannot turn on compression which will give us a
<ev> performance increase and probably significantly drive down the storage needed
<ev> per node (crash reports are just textual data - it compresses well).
<ev> In moving to this new 12 node cluster, we enabled Cassandra's multi-datacenter
<ev> replication and told the nodes in the new DC one by one to rebuild themselves
<ev> from pieces of the existing cluster. This fell over in a big heap, partially
<ev> because the existing nodes were already overtaxed (we really painted ourselves
<ev> into a corner) and possibly because we may have found a bug in the replication
<ev> code. This unfortunately stalled what was supposed to be a weekend move into a
<ev> many week affair.
<ev> We're at the point where we need outside help to fix this. We've signed on with
<ev> Acunu, a London-based Cassandra company to provide that support. They're
<ev> getting us to a safe place where we'll do the following:
<ev> - Move into the second cluster.
<ev> - Test upgrading to 1.2 and enable compression in the decomissioned
<ev>   real-hardware cluster.
<ev> - Upgrade to 1.2 and enable compression in prodstack.
<ev> - Assimilate the old nodes into prodstack, build a hot-standby and analytics
<ev>   (Hadoop in this case) Cassandra cluster.
<ev> Acunu also makes a product called Analytics
<ev> (http://www.acunu.com/uploads/1/1/5/5/11559475/070913_aa_datasheet_v5.pdf),
<ev> which we're going to use to *finally* build the top-k report you see on the
<ev> front page of errors.ubuntu.com over a rolling 24 hour period, 7 day period, 30
<ev> day period, 365 day period, and all time. What's more, we'll have it display in
<ev> real-time (finally as well). It looks likely that it can scale to handle the
<ev> complex set of combinations required to implement the "What's interesting about
<ev> this problem?" section (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#unusual) and may
<ev> someday form the basic for the generic metrics collection that mpt, ted, and I
<ev> have dreamed of.
<ev> Once the migration is settled we can get back to hacking on the database. We
<ev> have a few back-population jobs, namely weighting errors
<ev> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1069827) that have been languishing for
<ev> some considerable time. This one in particular may be replaced with Analytics
<ev> though.
<ev> James, Tom, and I will also be working on a talk for the London Cassandra
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1069827 in Errors "Error rate incorrectly spikes with any influx of machines" [High,Confirmed]
<ev> community on our experiences with Cassandra, Juju, and Ceph. There are some
<ev> doubts that Ceph will be successful, so it should make for a very interesting
<ev> discussion (and great use case for Juju).
<ev> The headaches around migrating these terabytes of data has got me thinking
<ev> again about internally opening up access to all the report data via Hadoop
<ev> (James is against giving Joe Random Community Member a turing complete system
<ev> with access to the production database).
<ev> I've implemented a Hadoop subordinate charm that we'll quickly deploy on all
<ev> the Cassandra nodes once we're on 1.2. There are also some interesting projects
<ev> around Hadoop and Pig I've been looking into which make monitoring and query
<ev> building a lot easier:
<ev> - http://cloudera.github.io/hue/
<ev> - https://github.com/twitter/ambrose
<ev> - https://github.com/Netflix/Lipstick
<ev> A lot has changed in the past few months, and CQL
<ev> (https://github.com/datastax/python-driver) is increasingly becoming a
<ev> compelling alternative to the "iter world" use case that Hadoop currently
<ev> handles. It, like Netflix's Astyanax Cassandra client library (Thrift-based),
<ev> uses a thread pool to do a bunch of gets, rather than a blocking get_range. So
<doko> sorry, a bit late
<ev> implementing something on top of this or indeed Astyanax
<ev> (https://github.com/Netflix/astyanax/wiki/All-rows-query) may prove worthwhile.
<ev> If nothing else, we'll definitely start using this approach to speed up our
<ev> other APIs that wrap calls into Cassandra.
<ev> Meanwhile, work continues on getting error reporting up and running for Ubuntu
<ev> Touch. I've split the DBus service that manages error reporting out of
<ev> activity-log-manager/gnome-control-center so it can be used in
<ev> ubuntu-system-settings (the QML settings UI). That latter project now has UI
<ev> for error reporting:
<ev> https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/ubuntu-system-settings/diagnostics/+merge/174385
<ev> Apport now has a noninteractive frontend
<ev> (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apport-hackers/apport/trunk/view/head:/data/apport-noui),
<ev> which will handle error reporting for Touch, Server, and desktop systems where
<ev> power users just want to send us stuff:
<ev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#line-37
<ev> We still need to implement enabling this for server via d-i. I've had some
<ev> discussions with the Juju GUI designers about the right place to put this.
<ev> As all of these pieces fall into place, and as click packaging comes online,
<ev> I'll be working to reduce the overhead of Apport.
<ev> It's also worth spending some time on improving the UI for the desktop, and
<ev> someday I'll finish off the branch to group system error reports with the next
<ev> application crash:
<ev> https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/grouped_reports
<ev> With click packaging and the SDK, we'll need some way to get debugging symbols
<ev> for retracing. I've discussed this with Colin and the hope is that we can build
<ev> a symbol server:
<ev> http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/symbols-on-linux-part-three-linux-versus-windows/
<ev> Working with what we have today, we're still getting ddebs added into the
<ev> Publisher. Last I heard we're waiting on storage. Once that's in place, our
<ev> retrace rate should increase quite dramatically:
<ev> https://errors.ubuntu.com/retracers-results/
<ev> James and I also have plans to move the retracers into builddstack, hopefully
<ev> with autoscaling. There might be an intermediary of running some in prodstack
<ev> as we are very much unable to keep up with the retracer queue at present.
<ev> We still want to accept more types of errors. If we weren't using an ancient
<ev> version of apport on production (oops!) we'd be getting kernel OOPS reports. I
<ev> have plans to fix and back-populate this once the database migration is over.
<ev> I'm also going to be working with the X/Mir team to start collecting GPU hangs
<ev> and come up with some forward looking plan for porting my error reports from
<ev> application hangs code from compiz to the new world order.
<ev> https://errors.ubuntu.com seems to be doing well. We've had 36 people sign the
<ev> NDA for access:
<ev> https://launchpad.net/~error-tracker-access
<ev> Brian has been working hard on building an API in errors.ubuntu.com for phased
<ev> updates. I believe this is just waiting on some Launchpad bits to land. Brian?
<ev> As mentioned, we've started work on implementing "What's interesting about this
<ev> problem" which will give us a better idea of when a problem is in the library
<ev> underneath the package, or specific to a architecture, locale, or day of the
<ev> week. The code we have for this takes a simplistic (and thus often inaccurate)
<ev> approach to the problem while leveraging a threadpool to do the heavy lifting
<ev> of iterating over hundreds or thousands of reports:
<ev> https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/errors/whats-unusual-architecture
<ev> Moving to Acunu Analytics should fix this.
<ev> I have high hopes of finding time to implement the API for "is this problem
<ev> fixed in a later version of the package" call to be used by Apport:
<ev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#When_an_update_is_available_to_fix_a_crash
<ev> I might build this as a microservice, following what I've learned from watching
<ev> Netflix OSS videos :).
<ev> I'm also hopeful that we'll find the time and resource to implement server-side
<cjwatson> Phased updates: the Launchpad bits have landed, as have Brian's ubuntu-archive-tools patches
<ev> hooks soon, but it requires review from the security team:
<ev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#Collecting_extra_information_for_particular_errors
<ev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/ServerSideHooks
<cjwatson> I think it may just have run into Brian's holiday
<ev> * * * AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION TIME! * * *
<ev> I'd be interested to know if any of you have thoughts on how we can allow
<ev> remote code execution (delivered over SSL, obviously) within the apport hook
<ev> framework, but still allow the hooks to be able to attach the contents of
<ev> Assuming we just say that hooks have to run with the permissions of the user
<ev> that the application crashed under, how would you implement running the hooks
<ev> under that user? Upstart user session jobs?
<ev> Finally, as a random aside, I discovered GCC's weak symbols:
<ev> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_symbol
<ev> This seems to solve all my crying over not being able to sparingly mock in C.
<ev> Expect lots of this to surface in whoopsie as I add support for server-side
<ev> hooks and problem fixed notifications.
<ev> Also, C++'s RAII kind of confuses me in it not being obvious where memory is
<ev> allocated for all these Qt objects, but does seem to produce some clean, safely
<ev> managed code.
<ev> As always, I could really use your help. If you want to volunteer for code
<ev> review, let me know and I'll add you to ~daisy-pluckers. If you want to try
<ev> your hand at hacking on it, let me know and I will gladly handhold you through
<ev> setting everything up. The same goes for anyone you know who might be
<ev> interested. It's pretty easy, it deploys with juju in a few short commands once
<ev> your instance limits on prodstack have been increased.
<ev> Thanks guys.
<ev> \o/
<cjwatson> ev: There was an article about "CMocka" in this week's LWN
<cjwatson> http://lwn.net/Articles/558600/ if you have a subscription
<ev> oh? I didn't think we still had access
<cjwatson> Some of us are Debian developers :)
<ev> :)
<ev> I can't even make a beard joke anymore
<stgraber> Ubuntu members still have access (at least I do)
<ev> because you no longer have one
<cjwatson> http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/558106/5222e063b48fd989/
<ev> and I do
<ev> yay
<ev> thanks
<cjwatson> Running hooks under the user> does it actually need anything from the user's session, or just need the user's file privileges?
<ev> I'm not sure I follow.
<jodh> ev: can you explain why we can't encode the required logic in existing apport hooks?
<ev> presumably just the latter
<ev> jodh: they will largely be the existing hooks, but they cannot have interactive UI
<cjwatson> Things you might need from the user's session: environment variables set by upstart, connections to dbus session bus, etc.
<ev> so no password prompts, no yes/no dialogs, etc
<cjwatson> But if you just need to reliably read files owned by the user, switching uid is sufficient
<ev> ah right
<stgraber> and it's relatively easy to read the list of upstart user sessions and dump the environment from there if you need to
<ev> switching uid -> have something privileged that looks for the hooks and runs them, first dropping privs to the right uid?
<cjwatson> Right, if you're planning on doing things as arbitrary users then you must have a privileged dispatcher anyway
<ev> prsumably upstart can be the privileged dispatcher?
<cjwatson> Might be worth remembering to set $HOME.  Aside from that it really depends what else you need
<jodh> ev: still not clear. If apport now has a noninteractive frontend, what are we needing to do "dynamically"? Can you give some examples?
<cjwatson> It could be, but that might be more trouble than it's worth if you just want to spawn a subprocess and wait for it to finish
<ev> yeah, good point
<cjwatson> click certainly doesn't use Upstart jobs when it's executing user-level hooks, for instance
<cjwatson> It would be possible but would really involve way too much runaround
 * ev nods
<cjwatson> Symbol server: ack, though this is at the handwave level right now.  Is darkserver free software?
<cjwatson> Apparently so, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Darkserver
<cjwatson> May indeed be worth a look; the less we have to write new server code the better ...
<ev> jodh: the hooks will be dynamically executed in that whoopsie will send a report to daisy, daisy will reply back with "oh, a developer wants you to run this hook code. HERE", and then something will take care of launching a python subprocess as the right user with the hook code
<barry> folks in F/RH land were raving about this at pycon
<ev> this of course doesn't handle operations that require raised privileges, like give me xorg.0.log
<cjwatson> ddebs/publisher> Blocked on the SAN move, which we really rather hope happens soon before the librarian runs out of space, but we're assured it will
<cjwatson> I believe it's been decoupled from the precise upgrade now, which should help
<ev> cjwatson: following our discussion about software engineering largely being an exercise in shopping, I agree wholeheartedly
<ev> I'll have a look
<jodh> ev: ok, but can you give a concrete of example of what a dev might want you to run that cannot be pushed out as a standard apport hook?
<ev> jodh: we don't want to ship them as standard apport hooks not because they can accomplish something more, but because we can deliver them without involving publisher cycles and the user hitting the upgrade button
<ev> also because they can accomplish more :) - we can target hooks to a specific problem
<ev> or package, or $world
<cjwatson> I've certainly had cases of ad-hoc things I want people to run that I wouldn't want to push out to the wordl
<cjwatson> Not that I can think of specific examples right now
<jodh> ev: so if this feature is introduced, how would these dynamic chunks of code get tested reliably before delivery?
<cjwatson> But I think it has happened with us all
<cjwatson> Of course the security properties are rather scary
<ev> jodh: a code review approach, but if they catch fire, they wont bring down the user's system
<ev> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#Collecting_extra_information_for_particular_errors for the nitty gritty
<ev> very scary
<jodh> ev: I was about to use those same words :)
<ev> but it's no more scary than a rogue ubuntu developer
<cjwatson> If it relates to click packages then I'd suggest that the extra chunk of code should run with the apparmor profile of the click app
<ev> we're only giving ubuntu-devs access to this, and they already have root on your machien
 * ev nods
<ev> yes, definitely
<cjwatson> OK, any other questions?  I've certainly been gratified by the steadily increasing amount of information we're getting from errors, and the extent to which we're putting it to use
<ev> yay! thank you very much
<cjwatson> Particularly in assorted SRUs
<ev> it helps to hear that it's useful
<barry> ev: very impressive, thanks for presenting this
<ev> aw shucks. Thanks
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> Anything else people have today?
<barry> nope
<ev> I'm all chatted out
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 24 15:42:53 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-24-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-24-15.01.html
<cjwatson> THanks all :)
<barry> thanks cjwatson !
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-28
<jose> #endmeeting
<jose> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jul 28 02:10:30 2013 UTC.  The chair is jose. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jose> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jul 28 02:10:34 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-28-02.10.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-28-02.10.html
<jose> Looks like the topic's stuck.
* jose changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<mapreri> jose: afaik meetingology can change the topic only if it is op. If you want you can op it by "/msg chanserv op #ubuntu-meeting meetingology"
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-21
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 21 16:34:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Reinhard Tartler (siretart) provided a package for trusty for libav (LP: #1341216)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1341216 in libav (Ubuntu Utopic) "Libav security fixes Jul 2014" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1341216
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I'm working on openjdk-6 updates today
<jdstrand> I've got performance reviews to do
<jdstrand> and plan on doing apparmor testing and helping out in any way I can to get that landed
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I have some updates pending
<mdeslaur> and have a lot more to work on
<mdeslaur> that's about it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor this week.
<sbeattie> I'll be testing stuff in support of jjohansen, basically doing whatever he needs in support of landing the socket stuff
<mdeslaur> cool
<sbeattie> And with jdstrand's note, I guess I have the sword damocles' performance reviews hanging over my head.
<sbeattie> meh, sword of ...
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm focused on AppArmor
<tyhicks> I'm currently getting jj's parser patches for supporting multiple policy cache dirs into shape for upstreaming
<tyhicks> they needed to be rebased against upstream and a couple of the later patches in the series didn't build
<tyhicks> that's all fixed and now I'm going back through to clean things up and then start testing
<tyhicks> there's still a few stubbed out pieces of functionality that I need to implement, too
<tyhicks> I'll be working on that until the abstract socket patches are available for packaging and testing
<tyhicks> Oh, I have a short week this week (off on Friday)
<tyhicks> and I need to do performance review stuff
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm focused on apparmor this week, I'm going to cram socket stuff at sbeattie, and tyhicks until they are sick of it
<mdeslaur> sweet
<jdstrand> \o/
<jjohansen> I'm also going to hand some upstream testing work over to tyhicks, so we can get a push out before the security window closes
 * jjohansen and tyhicks will coordinate to get that done
<tyhicks> I'm detecting a buffer overflow of my 4 work days this week
<tyhicks> ;)
<tyhicks> jjohansen: approx when does that window close?
<mdeslaur> heh
<jdstrand> thankfully, that should be the last big piece for the phone
<jjohansen> tyhicks: its not fixed but james like to have the patches for the next release by around rc5
<jjohansen> the other subsystems seem to have pushed already
<tyhicks> we're at rc6
<jjohansen> yes
<tyhicks> cool, we'll see if we can make it
<jjohansen> we are late already but he will likely take it if we can get it out before rc7
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week; I'm also doing a MIR of librevenge, some additional code review of trust-store, performance review, and webrtc-audio-processing MIR; if there's any spare cycles they'll probably go towards apparmor patch reviews
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chris appears out, jdstrand?
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mupdf.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ldap-account-manager.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openarena.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nullmailer.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qtnx.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 21 16:58:08 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-21-16.34.moin.txt
<tyhicks> thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<ovidiu-florin> Hello world
<Riddell> ping mamarok, yofel, shadeslayer, ScottK, valorie
<yofel> o/
<valorie> o/
<Riddell> morning valorie
<valorie> good morning!
<ovidiu-florin> morning valorie
<ovidiu-florin> Glad you could make it :D
<valorie> I'm glad you made me!
<Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting for membership of ovidiu-florin to ~kubuntu-members
<lordievader> Good evening everyone o/
 * Sick_Rimmit waves
<Riddell> we have a nice new policy to guide us https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/Policies#Election_Process_.28.28TBD.29.29
<Riddell> "Kubuntu Members are the most trusted and devoted members of the community, having gained public recogition for their work on Kubuntu by being accepted as official Kubuntu Members. Membership in this team also makes you an Ubuntu Member. "
<Riddell> "Requirements: Significant and sustained contributions (of any sort) to Kubuntu, love for Kubuntu"
<Riddell> so ovidiu-florin, who are you and what do you do in kubuntu?
<Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OvidiuFlorinBogdan
<ovidiu-florin> Hello every one
<Sick_Rimmit> Hi ovidiu-florin
<Riddell> ovidiu-florin: ping :)
<ovidiu-florin> I'm a linux addict and KDE enthusiast from Romania, I've discovered linux ~9-10 years ago (in highschool), been using Ubuntu for a while, untill Unity came along, then I gave KDE another try
<ovidiu-florin> The first try was the beginnig of KDE 4, So I hit a wall there
<ovidiu-florin> But I grew fond of it, ans switched to Kubuntu soon after
<ovidiu-florin> I like it so much that I've decided to contribute
<ovidiu-florin> My first few attempts, were a few bug reports, and after I've met you guys, I've started with a bit of packaging
<Riddell> how is ro.kubuntu.org going?
<ovidiu-florin> My biggest contribution was the Kubuntu Romania website, and a small Kubuntu comunity in my city
<ovidiu-florin> The purpose of the site was to provide assistance in romanian, to Kubuntu enthusiasts
<ovidiu-florin> and a news feed
<ovidiu-florin> Currently I'm working on a new and improved Kubuntu.org website on the wordpress platform, that is planned to be multinilgual
 * Sick_Rimmit Oooo sounds good
<ovidiu-florin> Some of my other contributions are: a Kubuntu users map: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zYpuT2LjYCLw.kig2rC4pVBg8
<ovidiu-florin> the migration of a school to Kubuntu
<ovidiu-florin> from Windows XP and 7
<lordievader> \o/
<valorie> exactly!
<valorie> so impressive
<Riddell> hmm I should move my entry on that map
<ovidiu-florin> convinced friends to contribute to Kubuntu, one way or another
<lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Where can I find that map, and how can I add myself?
<ovidiu-florin> I'm in the workings to become an official Go to person for Kubuntu in my city and a few surrounding ones
<yofel> Riddell: convince the others in the office to add themselves while at it ^^
<ovidiu-florin> lordievader, yofel, currently to add yourself to that map, you need to have editor rights.
<ovidiu-florin> I plan to alter that
<ovidiu-florin> to make a script, with moderation, that can allow you to do that
<ovidiu-florin> a kind of Google web form
<yofel> sweet
<ovidiu-florin> but on our hosting
<ovidiu-florin> I have a few trials, but I need to learn the Google maps API better
<Riddell> ovidiu-florin: Kubuntu has some politics around it these days, is any of that off putting to new contributors?
<ovidiu-florin> since it changed in the past years, and the online tutorials are outdated
<ovidiu-florin> I don't think it should loosen the enthusiasm of new users. I believe it should motivate them to join a growing community
<ovidiu-florin> and that map, provides a visual aid to how spread and large the community is.
<Riddell> :)
<ovidiu-florin> Riddell: Did I understand your question right?
<Riddell> yep
<ovidiu-florin> great
<Riddell> ovidiu-florin: how is the new kubuntu.org going?
<ovidiu-florin> unfourtanetly slow, right now. It's near compleation, but still needs a few tweaks, and testing.
<ovidiu-florin> anyone can feel free to stress test it and to report any kind of issues or suggestions
<Riddell> yofel, valorie, anyone: any questions?
<ovidiu-florin> Slow, because I've just switched jobs, and the accomodation is taking some effort on my part
<valorie> ovidiu-florin: do you do much user help in IRC?
<valorie> is there a romanian ubuntu chan?
<ovidiu-florin> not that much on IRC, unfourtanetly. The romanians forgot that IRC exists. There is a official #ubuntu-ro and an unofficial #kubuntu-ro
<ovidiu-florin> Most of the support foes on the ubuntu.ro forum, in the Kubuntu section, or on the Kubuntu Romania Google+ page
<valorie> it's good if you are there, when you're online though
<ovidiu-florin> or on the phone
<ovidiu-florin> on my part at least
<ovidiu-florin> and lot's of teamviewer
<valorie> interesting
<ovidiu-florin> Yesterday, I brought a new friend over to Kubuntu :D
<ovidiu-florin> he's not on the map yet
<valorie> excellent!
<Riddell> yay :)
<Riddell> ovidiu-florin: have you tried Plasma 5 and how far away from being sane to be default do you think it is?
<ovidiu-florin> but I lost another user, becouse of other people that have windows XP, and this gave some MS Office compatibility problems.
<Riddell> hi Mamarok
<ovidiu-florin> I haven't tried it yet, more than the neon5 isos on a virtual machine, but I'm keeping a close eye on it and every review I can see/read
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: how has the feedback been with deploying kubuntu in school and offices? Any people been really hard to convince?
<ovidiu-florin> the kids in the school have no idea of the change
<ovidiu-florin> firefox works the same
<ovidiu-florin> the teachers needed a bit of training and so did the administration
<ovidiu-florin> oh, forgot to mention:
<ovidiu-florin> in that school, some windows computers were necessary, because of proprietary software
<ovidiu-florin> but they use Libre Office on those, now :D
<Riddell> Mamarok: any more questions before we vote?
<Sick_Rimmit> This is very impressive, how many seats have you converted in the school ?
<ovidiu-florin> ~20 in the informatics labs and 3 in the administration
<ovidiu-florin> there are 3 on windows XP still
<Riddell> apachelogger: any more questions before we vote?
<apachelogger> nah
 * yofel is done
<valorie> ovidiu-florin rocks
<Sick_Rimmit> ovidiu-florin:  Oh that's really good, well done
<ovidiu-florin> thank you
<Mamarok> Riddell: ovidiu-florin:not so far, I check on his profile already :)
<apachelogger> make him a member already, all I have to say :P
<Riddell> council members: let's vote
<yofel> right, lets get the paperwork done
<Riddell> I vote +1 for clear passion and dedication
<Riddell> I have have proxy votes from ScottK and shadeslayer of +1 and +1
<yofel> +1 for longtime contributions and being awesome all over the place
<Mamarok> +1 from me, I love the dedication and enthousiasm
<Riddell> groovy, I think that's a clear +6
<Riddell> welcome in ovidiu-florin
<valorie> +1 for rocking
<Mamarok> top, welcome ovidiu-florin :)
<ovidiu-florin> Thank you everybody
<Sick_Rimmit> Oh very good, congrats ovidiu-florin good job
<Mamarok> glad to have you on board!
<yofel> welcome to being even more awesome ;)
<valorie> thanks for being prepared for the meeting, ovidiu-florin
<yofel> anything else?
<Riddell> ovidiu-florin: ovidiub13 on membership?
<ovidiu-florin> ovidiub13 is my launchpad ID, if that's what you're asking
<Riddell> I think that's all, back to packaging 4.14 beta, with 4.13.3 in the queue and plasma 5 ISOs on their way
<Riddell> ovidiu-florin: lovely, added
<yofel> ack
<lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Congratulations!
<Riddell> ovidiu-florin: you can now add your blog to planet ubuntu and you should get an @kubuntu.org e-mail address
<valorie> yes, congratulations
<ovidiu-florin> Thank you
<valorie> good work
<ovidiu-florin> Riddell: and the buissiness cards?
<Riddell> let's move back to #kubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-22
<smoser> o/
<rbasak> o/
 * rbasak has somewhere between very poor and no connectivity today.
<rbasak> Will be around but in and out.
<hallyn_> zul is chairing?
<gnuoy> o/
<tinoco> hello
<zul> nope
<hallyn_> hm, agenda says "Previous meeting (July 1st) actions:" - that looks un-updated in awhile :)
<hallyn_> ok, well gaughen is out on vacash, i believe,
<lutostag> o/
<hallyn_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 22 16:04:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is hallyn_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<kickinz1> o/
<hallyn_> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn_> none afaics
<hallyn_> #topic U development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: U development
<hallyn_> smoser, jamespage: ^
<matsubara> o/
<beisner> o/
<jamespage> o/
<gaughen> hallyn_, I'm actually here. thank you for running it though
<hallyn_> thought you were suppoed to be out wildernessing or something
<hallyn_> anything to be said on U development
<hallyn_> (there used to be links to release critical bugs in the agenda...)
<hallyn_> ok, moving on
<hallyn_> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<hallyn_> no caribou here, so moving on
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<hallyn_> hey psivaa
<psivaa> hallyn_: hey
<psivaa> hallyn_: not much to update :)
<hallyn_> psivaa: ok, so regarding the utah problems with machine reboot;  unless you've solved it,
<psivaa> hallyn_: it's not 100% solved. but things are much better without us changing anything
<hallyn_> oh, well that's good :)
<psivaa> yea, thanks a lot for your inputs
<hallyn_> np - moving on then,
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<hallyn_> sforshee: i need to get aroudn to testing your fuse-in-userns kernel (it's built in a ppa)...
<hallyn_> adding that to my list right now..
<sforshee> hallyn_: well I'm working on changes from upstream feedback anyhow
<hallyn_> yeah, but i want to see how it performs inside a container :)
<hallyn_> so i can tell smoser how cool it really is
<hallyn_> hm, smb is not here
<hallyn_> sforshee: anything to say in smb's place about general kernel status wrt server?
<sforshee> no, I can't think of anything
<hallyn_> cool - keep rockin' on then :)  moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn_> anything coming up in the next month?
<hallyn_> lxc sprint is in a little *over* a month...
<hallyn_> doesn't jamespage always know of some upcoming event?
<hallyn_> moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<jamespage> nothing springs to mind - the submissions deadline for ods is mondau
<hallyn_> jamespage: next monday?  we should prolly talk about what we've got on wed then
 * hallyn_ hopes someone adds that to that agenda
 * hallyn_ waits another half-minute for any open discussion to break out
<hallyn_> ok, moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<hallyn_> that'll be Tuesday July 29, 16:00 UTC, with either gaughen or rbasak chairing
<gaughen> hallyn_, well next Tuesday I really am out
<hallyn_> rbasak it is then :)
<gaughen> so I'll have to move myself on the schedule
<hallyn_> i'll move yo uto the next week
<gaughen> because I'll be unavailable the next time too
<hallyn_> ok :)
<gaughen> I'm a trouble maker!!!!
<hallyn_> all right - have a good day everyone
<hallyn_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 22 16:15:38 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-22-16.04.moin.txt
<gaughen> oh great, that was recorded?
<gnuoy> thanks hallyn_
<hallyn_> well it's always recorded at irclogs.ubuntu.com :)
<hallyn_> \o
<ogasawara> #startmeeting
<ogasawara> ##
<ogasawara> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<ogasawara> ##
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 22 17:00:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is ogasawara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<cking> \o
<ogasawara> # Meeting Etiquette
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<ogasawara> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<jsalisbury> \o
<smb> o/
<cking> o/
<kamal> o/
<ppisati> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<henrix> o/
<rtg> o/
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<ogasawara> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Utopic kernel has been rebased to v3.16-rc6 and officially uploaded
<ogasawara> to the archive.  We (as in apw) has also completed a hurculean config
<ogasawara> review for Utopic and administered the appropriate changes.  Please test
<ogasawara> and let us know your results.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Jul 24 - 14.04.1 (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 07 - 12.04.5 (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 21 - Utopic Feature Freeze (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<ogasawara> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<ogasawara> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Jul. 22):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Released
<bjf>   * Precise - Released
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Released
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Released
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> 14.04.1 cycle: 29-Jun through 07-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          27-Jun   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 29-Jun - 05-Jul   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 06-Jul - 12-Jul   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 13-Jul - 19-Jul   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> 20-Jul - 24-Jul   Release prep
<bjf>          24-Jul   14.04.1 Release [1]
<bjf>          07-Aug   12.04.5 Release [2]
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 08-Aug through 29-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          08-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 10-Aug - 16-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 17-Aug - 23-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 24-Aug - 29-Aug   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> [1] This will be the very last kernels for lts-backport-quantal, lts-backport-raring,
<bjf>     and lts-backport-saucy.
<bjf>  
<bjf> [2] This will be the lts-backport-trusty kernel as the default in the precise point
<bjf>     release iso.
<bjf> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<ogasawara> Thanks everyone
<ogasawara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 22 17:03:13 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-22-17.00.moin.txt
<ogasawara> hehe, sorry arges
<kamal> thanks ogasawara!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-24
<infinity> o/
<bhuey> hey
<sil2100> o/
<mvo_> hi
<cjwatson> bonjour
<jodh> hola
 * slangasek waves
<infinity> word, yo
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 24 15:02:56 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> jodh cjwatson sil2100 doko caribou slangasek infinity bdmurray mvo barry bhuey stgraber xnox robru
<jodh> * systemd: started to look at an issue where boot "works", but login not
<jodh>   possible (all getty's are disabled, lightdm not responsive).
<jodh> * system images
<jodh>   - Reading up on seeds, germinate, etc.
<jodh>   - Working on cdimage with mvo.
<jodh> * Raised bug 1345505 and found a way to recreate easily.
<ubottu> bug 1345505 in unity (Ubuntu) "lock screen leaks keystrokes to window "behind" greeter" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1345505
<jodh> * misc
<jodh>   - Appraisal admin.
<jodh> Øª
<slangasek> cjwatson: your turn :)
<cjwatson> Much work on the RTM archive:
<cjwatson>  - Wrote derive-distribution script to do the initial batch copy.  Quite pleased with it; it can do a germinate run based on historical Packages/Sources files and seeds, and sanity-check the result against historical image manifests.
<cjwatson>  - Worked with William to do a dry-run branch on dogfood.
<cjwatson>  - Got image building working, after a few livecd-rootfs tweaks.
<cjwatson>  - Reviewed some of William's Launchpad branch stack to fix up overrides.
<cjwatson>  - Arranged to pass the distribution name to sbuild in order to make ddeb-retriever work more nicely.
<cjwatson>  - Working on getting proposed-migration up and running.
<cjwatson> Another couple of landing team shifts, including assisting with the gcc-4.9 switch for C++11 projects.
<cjwatson> Finished parted 3.1 transition in Ubuntu (now I think just awaiting a delayed NMU in Debian).  Seems to have been pleasingly uneventful so far, touch wood.
<cjwatson> Performance reviews, argh.
<cjwatson> ..
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Temperatures too high, productivity down 50% (seriously!)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination - standard stuff
<sil2100> - Pushing upstreams for blocker fixes
<xnox> jodh: systemd has a unit which blocks/unblock logins on boot. that must run if you want to have logins working.
<sil2100> - Finished up the CI Train Issue tracker:
<sil2100>   * Working frontend and backend
<sil2100>   * Export for e-mail purposes functionality
<sil2100>   * Tweaked the look and feel, almost ready for public deployment
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * More work on enabling CI Train for non-ubuntu distributions (e.g. ubuntu-rtm)
<sil2100>   * Testing those changes on preproduction and dogfood
<sil2100>   * Reading up on python-jenkins
<sil2100>   * Implementation and pre-testing of the new auto-merge&clean
<jodh> xnox: it's not that - it's looking like a cgroups issue.
<sil2100>     - Things look good, but had to move those back because of other work items
<sil2100> - Inspecting choo choo strangeness happening
<xnox> jodh: fun
<sil2100> - Packaging related things, small packaging reviews for upstreams
<sil2100> done
<jodh> xnox: yeah
<infinity> Is doko around?
<infinity> No, wait.  He's not.
<infinity> And I see no caribou either.
<slangasek>  * working on bug #1323732 in adduser for the phone, as well as additional pieces surrounding authentication on the phone
<ubottu> bug 1323732 in adduser (Ubuntu) "adduser should support managing additional password/shadow/group files from libnss-extrausers" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1323732
<slangasek>  * working through the problems with crash submission on the phone; our successful retrace rate on armhf is currently about 50% of that for amd64, and getting better
<slangasek>  * performance reviews
<slangasek>  * helped finish working through g++-4.9 C++11 transitions
<slangasek>  * opening a new position on the Foundations team - send me good applicants :)
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> * working with ah on util-linux in Debian
<infinity> * sorting out reviews/merges/rejects for trusty installer changes
<infinity> * working on 14.04.1, releasing today
<infinity> â­
<slangasek> bdmurray is off today
<slangasek> mvo
<mvo_> ok
<mvo_> apt:
<mvo_> - Misc merges
<mvo_> - Work on transactional update
<mvo_> citrain:
<mvo_> - Trainguard duty (2 days)
<mvo_> click:
<mvo_> - Bug triage
<mvo_> - Create ppa:mvo/ubuntu-sdk-libs that makes
<mvo_>   apt-get install ubuntu-sdk-libs-dev:TARGET possible
<mvo_> - Investigate bug #1346723, create qtcreator #1346783
<mvo_> - Key rollover strategy
<mvo_> - Lp:~mvo/click/lp1346723 (click chroot destroy umount magic)
<mvo_> - Lp:~mvo/qtcreator-ubuntu-plugin/dialog-parents
<mvo_> - Make gobject-introspection multi-arch by building with
<mvo_>   triplet libdir and providing static path as fallback
<ubottu> bug 1346723 in qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Cannot delete my chroot." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1346723
<mvo_> - Send gobject-introspection multiarch patch to debian
<cjwatson> sdk-libs-dev> I promise to look at that soon, that's awesome
<mvo_> meta-release:
<mvo_> - Update http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/EOLReleaseAnnouncement.html
<mvo_> misc:
<mvo_> - 360 review
<mvo_> - Review/merge/upload squid-deb-proxy fix for ims hit
<mvo_> - Work with caribou on re-adding InRelease support for precise
<mvo_> sponsoring:
<mvo_> - Bug #1335324
<mvo_> system-image:
<cjwatson> g-i> !  I think I love you
<ubottu> bug 1335324 in wsmancli (Ubuntu) "Update wsmancli to 2.3.1 for Utopic" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335324
<mvo_> - work on ubuntu-core-next prototype, doesn't feel like I'm making
<mvo_>   real progress
<mvo_> - Discussion with jodh, cjwatson
<mvo_> - Work on getting a local instance going
<mvo_> - lp:~mvo/launchpad-buildd/mvo
<mvo_> - lp:~mvo/ubuntu-archive-tools/no-sys-exit
<mvo_> - lp:~mvo/ubuntu-cdimage/mvo
<mvo_> - lp:~mvo/ubuntu-cdimage/system-image
<mvo_> unattended-upgrades:
<mvo_> - Debug/fix problem for sources from pin priority < 100 (but > 0)
<mvo_> update-manager:
<mvo_> - Debug/fix/sru #1348067
<mvo_> - Investigate #1348067
<mvo_> (done)
<mvo_> cjwatson: thanks a bunch, its mostly a matter of filing bugs at this point I think
<mvo_> cjwatson: haha, thanks. I gave you a lot of pain with all my mis-guided ubuntu-cdimage work :P
<cjwatson> let's see what Debian make of it; the sourceful transitions will be interesting
<barry> phone: system-image 2.3 and 2.3.1 boarding the citrain.  lots of testing.  LP: #1321481.  lots of investigation of LP: #1341685 - now in mandel's hands (s-i 2.3 has semi-useful a workaround).  LP: #1347745.  will send a general "call for testing" today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1321481 in system-image (Ubuntu) "run integration tests from autopkgtest" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321481
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1341685 in ubuntu-download-manager "When unconstrained, udm sometimes downloads files to wrong location" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1341685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347745 in Ubuntu App Developer site "Installation docs should mention encrypted android device workaround" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347745
<barry> debuntu: more zope stack work trying to clear -proposed.  zope.security 4.0.1-1ubuntu2 is still "out of date" on update_excuses, but that's the last one.  todo: gunicorn (for the blueprint).
<barry> other: helped out with LP: #1328600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1328600 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Autopilot lacks support for large timestamps" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1328600
<barry> ^D
<xnox> is everyone off, and it's my turn?
 * bhuey waits
<bhuey> I'll go
<bhuey> Last week
<bhuey> -Integrated all of the security Oracle patches, added a bunch of non-security related patches
<bhuey> -learned how to use quilt and refreshed a bunch of patches
<bhuey> -automated much of that patch integration process using some ruby scripts
<bhuey> -changed debian/rules to apply each patch individually at build time
<bhuey> This week
<bhuey> -uploaded 7u55-2.4.7 to my ppa for trusty and utopic, lp:~bill-huey/openjdk/trusty-sec-update-june-2014
<bhuey> -worked with trying to figure out if there's a problem with the build environment since source builds were failing under i386, including trying this a bunch of time on my local machine
<bhuey> -started creating the TCK environment on my local machine
<bhuey> -reading Jean-Baptise's documents on TCK configuration
<bhuey> -writing scripts to automate extraction of Java test results done at build time
<bhuey> ...
<bhuey> done
<infinity> xnox: It's you now. :P
<xnox> =)
<xnox> * upstart sru for .1
<xnox> * enable upstart/cgroups in utopic
<xnox> * fix usb-creator bugs (some fixed, some in progress)
<xnox> * working with smoser on systemd/cloud-init enablements
<xnox> * helping out sorting through iso-testing reports
<xnox> * spend half of monday talking to pretty much everyone in EU and more
<xnox> ..
<xnox> * UE
<xnox> that is.
<infinity> That's a much smaller set of people.
<slangasek> xnox: upstart/cgroups - is that enabled now?
<xnox> slangasek: in utopic-proposed yes. let me check if it's in release already
<slangasek> xnox: great :)
<xnox> slangasek: apperantely that refressed systemd-shim and upstart auto package tests =)
<xnox> *regressed
<slangasek> hmm, ok
<xnox> so not in release pocket, yet. will investigate.
<slangasek> and robru is conferencing today, so also not here
<slangasek> so that's everyone
<slangasek> and I don't think we have a volunteer today for a deeper dive
<slangasek> so
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else? :)
<infinity> Someone needs to bake a cake for xnox.
<bhuey> or spank him
<xnox> *blush*
 * mvo_ hands xnox a cup of tea
<bhuey> congrads again xnox, I'l miss you
<slangasek> yeah, what are we doing about a cake?
<infinity> We need to have one baked in China, shipped to London, sliced, and then FedExed to each of us.
<slangasek> infinity: DHL, you insensitive clod
<infinity> Anywhere FedEx doesn't deliver isn't worth sending cake to.
<xnox> infinity: well, your piece will come via Royal Mail, it may get there delayed by a month or tow
<xnox> *two
<barry> remind me to tell you about the time my cousin us mailed someone a fish
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 24 15:30:56 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-24-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> clearly we're done here :)
<slangasek> thanks, all
<jodh> thanks!
<infinity> \o
<mvo_> thanks
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> tah
<sil2100> robru: too late!
<sil2100> ;)
<robru> sil2100, ah, sorry I missed it all, I'm having the worst case of jetlag ever... I just slept 12 hours
<robru> and woke up at a time appropriate to my home timezone, not the timezone i'm in. just awful
<ogra_> just dont change timezones
<ogra_> where are you anyway
<ogra_> :P
<robru> ogra_, yeah that's ok for my landing work, but it'll make it difficult to attend the conference that I came here for ;-)
<robru> ogra_, Strasbourg
<ogra_> what are all you guys doing there ? Qt is the future !
<ogra_> :)
<robru> ogra_, haha, yeah, I came to give a talk urging GNOME to port to Qml ;-)
<ogra_> LOL
<robru> ogra_, whaaaa? I'm sure GNOME will have no problem listening to some guy telling them what to do... ;-)
<ogra_> yeah, they are so easily steerable
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-25
<phillw> are there any CC people about?
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-26
<mhall119> phillw: #ubuntu-community is usually a better place to find CC members
<mhall119> #ubuntu-community-team that is
<phillw> mhall119: is not an issue
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-20
<tyhicks> hello
<tsimonq2> Why hello sir :P
 * sbeattie waves
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 20 16:35:07 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> I've got an embargoed issue I am working on
<jdstrand> I also plan to pickup an openstack update this week
<jdstrand> I gathered up some ufw patches and will try to release 0.34 this week, time permitting
<jdstrand> I'll also look at trello and see what's up next
<jdstrand> m deslaur is out, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on security bug triage this week.
<sbeattie> I've also got a preliminary apparmor 2.10 package for wily prepared and have done some local testing with, that I'm hoping to have sponsered later this week.
<tyhicks> nice :)
<sbeattie> I'm trying to find out what's up with upstream icedtea releases, as we need to prepare updates for openjdk
<sbeattie> I also have some arm64 and kernel 4.1 qrt test failures to track down.
<sbeattie> And I'm also trying to find time for gcc-pie.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much my week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: did I understand correctly that you plan on doing openjdk updates this week?
<sbeattie> yes
<sbeattie> it's a bit contingent on seeing an upstream icedtea release.
<tyhicks> ok
<sbeattie> they announced a new 2.6.0 release, but nothing for older releases yet.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: that's a full week - put gcc-pie on the backburner and revisit it next week
<tyhicks> I'm on cve triage this week
<tyhicks> I'm working on several embargoed issues
<tyhicks> I still need to review the kdbus LSM hook patch set
<tyhicks> Verify kernel auditing bug fix in the phone images (LP: #1473584)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473584 in linux-manta (Ubuntu Vivid) "AUDIT_USER_AVC messages are not printk'ed when auditd is not running" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473584
<tyhicks> Investigate supportability of io.js
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have an embargoed issue I am working on
<jjohansen> and then I am going to finish up the fix for bug #1448912
<ubottu> bug 1448912 in AppArmor "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference (aa_label_merge)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448912
<jjohansen> and get together a pull request for the kernel team, and patch series for upstream
<jjohansen> then if I am really lucky I'll look into overlayfs issues
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'm going to finish the ppc64-diag follow-on MIR audits today or tomorrow, and then I'll be free to pick up an update
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'm hoping to have a less crazy week this week - I plan to get Thunderbird 31.8.0 out today. Also, people have been asking why we're not updating to Thunderbird 38.1.0 yet (yeah, terrible version numbering), so I've opened bug 1476169 and plan to upload it to proposed
<ubottu> bug 1476169 in thunderbird (Ubuntu Vivid) "Update Thunderbird to 38.1.0" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476169
<chrisccoulson> I'll also be preparing the next Oxide release
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I've got a tonne of Oxide reviews to work through
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: here's to a sane week in the browser security world :)
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sssd.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/squidclamav.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ncpfs.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nusoap.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-mail.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 20 16:58:46 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-20-16.35.moin.txt
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thank you!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<micahg_work> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
 * xnox 0
<cyphermox> o/
 * xnox 0/
<coreycb> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<micahg_work> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 20 19:05:52 2015 UTC.  The chair is micahg_work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<micahg_work> Welcome to the DMB meeting
<micahg_work> #topic Review previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review previous action items
<micahg_work> #subtopic Laney get with CC to get the voting rules documented
<micahg_work> I believe this was done
<micahg_work> #subtopic micahg to get Noskcaj feedback
<micahg_work> I still need to do this
<micahg_work> #subtopic micahg to call for nominations to fill soon to be empty DMB seat
<micahg_work> this was done as well as the election
<micahg_work> #topic Confirm DMB election result
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Confirm DMB election result
<cyphermox> yep
<micahg_work> anyone have the results link handy?
<cyphermox> http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_f7044c9c0a0f68b6
<cyphermox> sorry, [LINK] http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_f7044c9c0a0f68b6
<micahg_work> thanks
<cyphermox> ugh, whatever it is ^
<micahg_work> #link http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_f7044c9c0a0f68b6
<micahg_work> #vote DMB to affirm election results at http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_f7044c9c0a0f68b6
<meetingology> Please vote on: DMB to affirm election results at http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_f7044c9c0a0f68b6
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<micahg_work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_work
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<micahg_work> We have a +1 from Laney as well
<micahg_work> bdmurray, ^^
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<micahg_work> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: DMB to affirm election results at http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_f7044c9c0a0f68b6
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> infinity: you've been confirmed as a new DMB member
<micahg_work> Congrats to infinity on being elected to the DMB to fill the remainder of ScottK's term
<micahg_work> well
<micahg_work> technically I think we now forward to TB and they have to approve :)
<cyphermox> bah ;)
<micahg_work> #action micahg to send E-Mail to TB with election results and DMB affirmation and ask for approval/team changes
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to send E-Mail to TB with election results and DMB affirmation and ask for approval/team changes
<micahg_work> paperwork...
<ScottK> Don't forget to update the dmb ping.
<micahg_work> hrm, Laney isn't here for the next item...
<micahg_work> #action micahg to ask IRC team to update dmb-ping once team updates happen
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to ask IRC team to update dmb-ping once team updates happen
<micahg_work> let's start with applications
 * micahg_work is looking for Unit193 quickly
<micahg_work> ok, moving to coreycb since he's here
<coreycb> o/
<coreycb> Hi
<micahg_work> #topic applications for ubuntu-server upload rights for Corey Bryant
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: applications for ubuntu-server upload rights for Corey Bryant
<micahg_work> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CoreyBryant/UbuntuServerDeveloperApplication
<bdmurray> coreycb: Could you tell us a bit about yourself?
<xnox> micahg: seems to have network problems.
<coreycb> Sure
<micahg_work> yes, sorry
<xnox> coreycb: how do you envision openstack moving to python3 only? python3 only in Ubuntu?
<coreycb> I work on OpenStack packaging and it's dependencies for Ubuntu.
<coreycb> well we've started to migrate the python clients to python3
<coreycb> So it's in the works, and upstream is also working to move to python3
<coreycb> A little more about myself..
<doko> wily will be 3.5 as the default
<coreycb> I've been packaging since early 2014
<coreycb> and have since started to take over a lot of the SRUs
<coreycb> and have contributed a decent amount to the new release (liberty)
<coreycb> so having upload rights would be a big help for streamlining our process, and take some load off of zul and jamespage
<infinity> coreycb: Would be a better question for Chuck or James, but I'll trust you to answer honestly: On average, when they're sponsoring for you, how often would you say they find issues you need to fix?
<coreycb> infinity, less than 5% I'd say
<coreycb> typically I consult with them before issues come up
<infinity> coreycb: And, I assume, with upload rights, that process won't change?  You'll still ask for input from your peers if something seems a bit off or needs another set of eyes?
<xnox> coreycb: could you describe in general terms what stages a package goes through from upload by developer, until it reaches the users of the development release wily? why might it not reach those users?
<coreycb> infinity, definitely
<coreycb> xnox, sure
<coreycb> well most packages start in debian obviously
<coreycb> and we have to do a lot of syncs and merges with debian
<coreycb> and once those packages are in universe we need to get them into main for many of the openstack packages, the supported ones
<coreycb> when uploading, we'll upload to wily-proposed
<coreycb> and the packages then move to wily-updates (post release)
<coreycb> or straight to wily pocket pre-release
<xnox> ok.
<infinity> coreycb: I think he was asking for all the proposed -> ??, ??, ?? -> release steps in between. ;)
<xnox> coreycb: and why/how things might not end up in the wily pocket pre-release?
<xnox> (second part of the question)
<coreycb> xnox, right so issues might occur with autopkgtesting
<coreycb> in migration to proposed
<coreycb> we'd need to evaulate various issues that could occur in update excuses
<xnox> ok. sounds good.
<coreycb> infinity, so yeah wily-proposed to -> wily-updates -> cloud archive might be what you're looking for
<xnox> coreycb: in update excuses what does "missing build on amd64" mean? is that a problem for a pure-python package (arch:all)?
<infinity> coreycb: So, historically, openstack packages have suffered two major issues in proposed-migration.  One just being new deps that cause a transition/blockage and need MIRs and the like to sort out.  You've been really good about keeping on top of that (thanks).
<infinity> coreycb: The other major issue is that sometimes autopkgtest regressions go unnoticed/unresolved for weeks.  Do you have a plan to make sure that happens less often, and how?
 * xnox is mostly asking silly questions cause i naver worked/sponsored coreycb thus try to probe where on contributor - core-dev spectrum the applicant is.
<coreycb> xnox, no I don't think that's an issue for a pure python package since it's interpreted
<xnox> coreycb: what does FTBFS mean?
<coreycb> fails to build from source
<infinity> coreycb: xnox's question was (unintentionally?) a trick question, BTW, since amd64 is the arch that builds arch:all packages in vivid and later. :)
<doko> do you known how to fix it?
<coreycb> doko, ftbfs?
<doko> heh, yes
<xnox> coreycb: ... thus there would be no binary .deb of a said python package if it fails to build from source.
<coreycb> doko, it probably depends, but recently I diagnosed an ftbfs in the cloud archive for liberty and tests were failing due to a missing dep
<doko> and how do you become aware of packages that ftbfs which you don't upload yourself?
<coreycb> doko, well in that case it was the cloud archive so we have a mailing list for that
<coreycb> doko, I think here -- http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<xnox> coreycb: "no I don't think that's an issue for a pure python package since it's interpreted" this is wrong by the way. "missing build on amd64" means .deb was never created for this package, and it means it never got build and will not propagate. It could be that it is failing to build from source (like you said bugs/errors in testsuite etc) or it could be in dep-wait state (build dependencies not satisfied). When in dep-wait state launchpad
<xnox> doesn't even attempt to build the packages.
<bdmurray> micahg_work: I don't we need Laney for the input-methods discussion
<xnox> coreycb: and yeah, tricky cause amd64 compiles _all.deb packages for us (as infinity said)
<xnox> in willy.
<micahg_work> bdmurray, right, I noticed the comment in his email and I'm ready to bring it up once we're done with this topic
<coreycb> infinity, sorry I missed your qeustion
<infinity> coreycb: S'ok, you're kinda getting slammed from all sides here. :P
<xnox> infinity: but so far the answers are handled well, for the archive rights application is for.
<xnox> imho.
<coreycb> infinity, re autopkgtest regressions.  setting time aside each week to evaluate things like component mismatches, or update excuses, or bug triaging is something I need to do.
<micahg_work> coreycb, on that topic, Laney noticed that your last two uploads seem to be stuck in dependency wait status, have you been working on resolving that?
<coreycb> infinity, :)
<xnox> coreycb: have you ever participated in a transition? e.g. migration to a new major version of something rather (python, boost, gcc, or any other smaller libraries)?
<coreycb> micahg_work, yes, well liberty is a new release now so it's really in some of the busiest parts of the openstack packaging release lifecycle
<coreycb> micahg_work, so some things do need attention but yeah it's a balance, and we have a list of done and to-do :)
<coreycb> xnox, If I understand your question, we're about to do that with openstack actually, as they're moving to a new versioning scheme
<coreycb> xnox, so we'll need to add an epoch to the version
<xnox> coreycb: ack. sounds good.
<xnox> coreycb: you might find transition tracker useful for that. It takes syntax to mark things as good/bad and then one can easily track progress of such things.
<micahg_work> coreycb, right, I understand there are chicken and egg issues, I was wondering if you've followed up at all and if so, what's happening with those packages' dependencies
<xnox> E.g. here is the tracker for upcomming libstdc++ abi transition http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/libstdc++6.html
<coreycb> xnox, thanks I'll look into that
<coreycb> micahg_work, did you have one in particular?
<coreycb> micahg_work, we probably have some MIRs being settled
<micahg_work> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/heat/1:5.0.0~b1-0ubuntu1/+build/7628909
<micahg_work> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceilometer/1:5.0.0~b1-0ubuntu2/+build/7635433
<coreycb> micahg_work, heat is waiting on python-designateclient which we have an MIR open for
<coreycb> and is dependent on a new python-cliff which is working it's way through from debian
<coreycb> micahg_work, ceilometer is waiting on python-awsauth, we have an MIR open for that too
<micahg_work> so, heat needs the new python-cliff or python-designateclient?
<coreycb> heat needs python-designateclient and python-designateclient needs python-cliff, but I don't see cliff in component mismatches so maybe it's ok.  I need to check rmadison to see what version we haven ow.
<coreycb> s/ow/now
<coreycb> micahg_work, ah.
<coreycb> micahg_work, I believe we have a new version of python-designateclient in debian we need to sync
<micahg_work> coreycb, so, is this a requirement of the MIR or of heat?
<micahg_work> (new version that is)
<coreycb> micahg_work, no actually sorry I think I'm just confusing things
<micahg_work> ok
<coreycb> micahg_work, I'm not sure why python-designateclient isn't in main yet.  The MIR's been fix committed.
<coreycb> it appears to be building ok
<coreycb> I might just need to poke the release team
<micahg_work> right, I was wondering if you or your team regularly follow up on those
<coreycb> micahg_work, we do yes, I'm starting to
<micahg_work> great
<micahg_work> ok, any other questions
<coreycb> micahg_work, none from me :)
<micahg_work> #vote Corey Bryant (coreycb) to get upload rights to the Ubuntu Server packageset
<meetingology> Please vote on: Corey Bryant (coreycb) to get upload rights to the Ubuntu Server packageset
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<micahg_work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_work
<micahg_work> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Corey Bryant (coreycb) to get upload rights to the Ubuntu Server packageset
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg_work> coreycb, congrats
<xnox> =)
<coreycb> thank you very much!
<cyphermox> coreycb: congrats!
<coreycb> I appreciate your time and questions, thanks again.
<micahg_work> #action micahg or other DMB member to add coreycb to Ubuntu Server uploaders
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg or other DMB member to add coreycb to Ubuntu Server uploaders
<micahg_work> ok, let's quickly go through the input methods item
<bdmurray> +1
<bdmurray> was I too quick?
<micahg_work> #topic input-methods packageset criteria change
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: input-methods packageset criteria change
<micahg_work> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-July/000811.html
<micahg_work> are we ready for a vote?
 * bdmurray is
<cyphermox> I am
<micahg_work> #vote New input methods packageset criteria based on Laney's suggestion in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-July/000811.html
<meetingology> Please vote on: New input methods packageset criteria based on Laney's suggestion in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-July/000811.html
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<xnox> against what should i run sed -r -ne 's/^im:([^:]*:)*(.*)$/\2/p'
<xnox> > >> >language-selector-*/data/pkg_depends | sort -u ?
 * xnox wants to double check sanity
<micahg_work> run it in a dir that where you grab the language selector source IIRC
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<xnox> checked that and the rest of the request.
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<micahg_work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_work
<micahg_work> and we have a +1 from Laney as well
<micahg_work> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: New input methods packageset criteria based on Laney's suggestion in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-July/000811.html
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg_work> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<micahg_work> #info The DMB would like to thank Scott Kitterman for his years of service on the DMB.
<micahg_work> next chair is bdmurray
<micahg_work> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 20 20:21:25 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-20-19.05.moin.txt
<micahg_work> thanks everyone, sorry that we went a little over
<czajkowski> slangasek: hey when is the next TB meeting ?
<slangasek> czajkowski: 2015-07-21 17:00 BST, just as I've retroactively edited https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda to show
<czajkowski> slangasek: thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-21
<beisner> o/
<teward> o/
<dames> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<caribou> \o
<matsubara> o/
<smb> o/
<rharper> \p
<smb> Hm... rather quiet meeting today...
<teward> heh
<ogra_> but with a lot of sports it seems
<kickinz1> OK, I'll start
<kickinz1> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 21 16:13:59 2015 UTC.  The chair is kickinz1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<kickinz1> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<kickinz1> SO there was an action:
<kickinz1> smoser to check with Odd_Bloke on status of high priority bug 1461242
<kickinz1> But I'm unsure we can have some progress on it.
<coreycb> kickinz1, I talked to Odd_Bloke and he's going to put some focus on it
<kickinz1> Ok, I was pinging him. Thanks
<kickinz1> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<kickinz1> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<kickinz1> We are in Alpha2 and feature freeze is the 20th of August
<kickinz1> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> bah. sorry.
<kickinz1> Any news on those opend bugs?
<kickinz1> s/opend/opened/
<kickinz1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<kickinz1> So going on in 5s
<kickinz1> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> completed rsyslog merge, now needs a sponsor
<caribou> aside from that I'm all good
<kickinz1> Thanks caribou, you have some sponsor ideas?
<caribou> kickinz1: I'll ping in #ubuntu-devel soon
<kickinz1> OK
<kickinz1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> kickinz1, hi, nothing new to report
<kickinz1> Thanks matsubara
<kickinz1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to report but a topic that probably thinking about. Primarily this would affect libvirt (standalone or via virt-manager) which currently does not allow automatic NUMA placement.
<smb> To have this support we would need numad but that is not yet in Debian nor in Ub
<smb> untu (there is an ITP for Debian).
<smb> So long term the question is whether we want this supported. Unlikely something
<smb> that can or will be decided here in this meeting but maybe could be taken into c
<smb> onsideration for future planning.
<smb> If I understood the descriptions about numad correctly this would possibly not only be interesting for libvirt/qemu but also for any long running process that i
<smb> s memory centric.
<kickinz1> Thanks smb
<kickinz1> Anything else?
<smb> nope I am done
<kickinz1> Thanks smb
<kickinz1> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<kickinz1> I think the call for ODS is closed since some days no? Any other call for papers still occuring?
<kickinz1> There are Container.camp and IT Cloud Computing Conference call for papers still opened.
<kickinz1> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<kickinz1> There will be a sprint in August, maybe we have some news?
<kickinz1> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<kickinz1> Anything to add?
<kickinz1> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<kickinz1> smoser will chair next meeting, same channel the 28th of July at 16:00 UTC
<kickinz1> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 16:30:33 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-21-16.13.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks kickinz1
<matsubara> thanks kickinz1
<coreycb> thanks kickinz1
<apw> nice
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 21 17:00:11 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<arges> o/
<rtg> o/
<kamal> o/
<smb> Ã/
<sforshee> o/
<apw> o/
 * apw wonders at smb's chin
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> We have rebased the master and master-next branch of our Wily repo to
<jsalisbury> 4.1 and uploaded to the archive.  We'll move master-next to start
<jsalisbury> tracking 4.2.
<jsalisbury> -----
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<jsalisbury> Thurs July 30 - Alpha 2 (~1 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Aug 6 - 14.04.3 (~2 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Aug 20 - Feature Freeze (~4 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Aug 27 - Beta 1 (~5 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<henrix> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<henrix>   * Precise - Verification & Testing
<henrix>   *  Trusty - Verification & Testing
<henrix>   *  Utopic - Verification & Testing
<henrix>   *  Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix>  
<henrix> Schedule:
<henrix>  
<henrix> cycle: 04-Jul through 25-Jul
<henrix> ====================================================================
<henrix>          03-Jul   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<henrix> 05-Jul - 11-Jul   Kernel prep week.
<henrix> 12-Jun - 25-Jul   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<henrix> ** NOTE: This cycle produces the kernel that will be in the 14.04.3
<henrix>          point release.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 17:05:32 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-21-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
<smb> thanks jsalisbury
<bjf> jsalisbury, you still need them?
<wmack> hello...
<pirateP> AZ Loco is present.
<TurbidTux> Is anyone monitoring this channel for the AZLOCO renewal today?
<toddc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<pavlos> AZloco is present
<TurbidTux> all with AZLOCO sign in with +1
<TurbidTux> +1
<hippyjake> 1+
<pavlos> +1
<wmack> +1
<pirateP> +1
<hobbet1> +1
<Yorokobi> +1
<wmack> 2000 utc was actually 11am AZ
<wmack> (I take that back)
<julian1> +1
<MajB> +1
<julian1> -1
<julian2> +1
<toddc> AZLOCO Members they have asked us to reschedule due to lack of available members at the current time
<TurbidTux> I don't see their post?
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-23
<sil2100> o/
<robru> \o
<chiluk> o/
<cyphermox> \o
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 23 15:04:23 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti)
<slangasek> doko pitti robru sil2100 slangasek caribou barry bdmurray infinity cyphermox
<slangasek> and go :)
<bdmurray> pitti is on vacation right?
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> doko: here?
<doko> hi
<doko> - GCC 5.2 release, 5.2 updates
<doko> - ongoing landing-016 fun
<doko> - packaged libdfp 1.0.11
<doko> - update gdb to 7.9.1, started gdb-7.10
<doko> - still looking at apt building with -O3
<doko> (done)
<robru> Not much to report, been working closely with IS and struggling through various iterations and setbacks of mojo spec and train deployments. (Done)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Investigated the recent i386 touch rootfs build failure
<sil2100> - Investigated the meizu.en-proposed channel not picking up new custom builds
<sil2100> - Prepare OTA-5 release notes
<sil2100> - Re-spinning the OTA-5 arale image based on the snapshot PPA + new custom tarball
<sil2100> - Releasing OTA-5 for all channels
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding some touch packages and gcc-5 buildability
<sil2100> - Started work on a helper script to perform merges of hand-built branches
<sil2100> - Helping with packaging issues in some upstream projects
<sil2100> - Appmenu-qt5:
<sil2100>   * More digging into bug with missing menus after hide+show
<sil2100>   * Prepare landing of existing changes
<sil2100> - Rebased PPA rebuild branch for CI Train, waiting for staging to test on
<sil2100> - Sick day on Tuesday
<bdmurray> doko: do know much about what's new in gdb?
<sil2100> - Looking into LP translations
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> working through batch uploads for the python3.5 and gcc5 transitions
<slangasek> (done)
<doko> bdmurray, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11925600/
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - makedumpfile kernel support on trusty
<caribou> Charm dev
<caribou> - Applied latest review suggestions
<bdmurray> doko: thanks
<caribou> Merges - Completed rsyslog merge - waiting for sponsor
<caribou> Sosreport upstream
<caribou> - bugfix
<caribou> â
<bdmurray> added a tag in the apport retracer hack branch so staging can be updated
<bdmurray> tested staging rollout of new version of apport
<bdmurray> fixed crash in retracer-hack branch of apport due to keyword change of md5 vs hash in python-apt
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating production version of apport
<bdmurray> pinged webops about oops.canonical.com being slow as heck
<bdmurray> investigation into left over core files in swift
<bdmurray> fixed apt-clone merge proposal regarding foreign packages
<bdmurray> worked on displaying the owning team from the package to team mapping in m-o-m
<bdmurray> updated code on merges.ubuntu.com to display the owning team
<bdmurray> review of merges report to find unsubscribed packages, subscribing teams
<bdmurray> testing of apport-noui systemd / upstart changes
<bdmurray> reported systemd bug LP: #1476849
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1476849 in systemd (Ubuntu) "using watershed in apport-noui.service causes multiple instances of watershed to run" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476849
<bdmurray> investigation into apport adt test failures
<sil2100> robru: is wendigo back up?
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> infinity:
<infinity> - Kernel SRU work
<infinity> - Work with Andy on getting FAN stuff in for 14.04.3
<infinity> - General SRU/AA work
<infinity> - Work on a bunch of IBM/POWER bugs for 14.04.3
<infinity> - Fix live-build bugs leading to debsums failures
<infinity> - Sort out arm64 grub2-signed issues
<infinity> - Begin investigating 14.04.3 build failures for {l,k}ubuntu
<infinity> (done)
<sil2100> hm, doesn't look like it...
<cyphermox>  * started some work on converting NM bzr branches to git & syncing with Debian
<cyphermox>  * some investigation / question answering on preseeding oem-config
<cyphermox>  * reviewed & merged some NetworkManager code branches from Tony Espy.
<cyphermox>  * reviewed/sponsored new ubuntu-mate-welcome package
<cyphermox>  * I am in multipath-tools patch hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtEkUmYecnk
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray: bug #1476849 - that's the expected behavior, that there would be an instance of watershed for each of the files... that's what happens on the upstart side too
<ubottu> bug 1476849 in systemd (Ubuntu) "using watershed in apport-noui.service causes multiple instances of watershed to run" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476849
<slangasek> bdmurray: watershed just ensures that the whoopsie-upload-all processes are serialized
<slangasek> so maybe this is working "as designed"?
<bdmurray> slangasek: ah, okay
<slangasek> bdmurray: however systemd *might* have a better way to express this such that we could manage to get only one instance running at boot; I just don't know what that way is
<slangasek> ok, anything else to discuss re: status?
<slangasek> or are we all busy watching the youtube video cyphermox posted? :)
<sil2100> ;)
<cyphermox> I'm already back on the patches tbh :)
<cyphermox> nothing to discuss, except I'll be happy for any and all distraction from anything multipath once I'm done.
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<caribou> cyphermox: care to merge ifenslave in Wily, I'm waiting for a fix I submitted upstream ;-)
<cyphermox> caribou: ok
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else?
<caribou> cyphermox: FYI - Bug #1326854
<ubottu> bug 1326854 in ifenslave-2.6 (Ubuntu) "ambiguous error message "sh: echo: I/O error"" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326854
<cyphermox> caribou: thanks. hopefully it shouldn't be much longer, things nearly compile.
<caribou> cyphermox: wave at me if I can help. I was tempted to do it myself
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 23 15:22:25 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-23-15.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> righty-o, thanks all
<caribou> slangasek: thanks!
<cyphermox> caribou: do you have upload rights? I could also just review your work and sponsor
<cyphermox> slangasek: thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<caribou> cyphermox: no I don't & there's a lot of upstart specifics that I'm not sure I know about
<caribou> cyphermox: let me give it another look
<cyphermox> caribou: ok, well I'm thinking one or two more hours on this and I should be done
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-25
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 25 16:30:43 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> I'll continue to focus on snappy this week
<jdstrand> various snappy interface PR reviews and followups
<jdstrand> continue launcher cleanups
<jdstrand> pulseaudio/trust-store on snappy discussions
<jdstrand> chrome/firefox interfaces
<jdstrand> abstract sockets PR
<jdstrand> I think that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> hopefully I'll be working on overdue php updates
<mdeslaur> I'm on patch piloting tomorrow too
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I have openjdk-8 updates from tdaitx to test and publish, and he's working on preparing openjdk-7 and 6 for me, not sure when they'll be ready yet.
<sbeattie> I have some kernel signoffs to do
<sbeattie> I am also still digging through the rebuild test looking for pie failures
<sbeattie> That's probably it for me this week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I'm still catching up from email/irc while I was off last week
<tyhicks> I was asked to merge apparmor from debian into yakkety
<tyhicks> that works out nicely because I've finalized all of the other changes that I was working on for a yakkety apparmor upload
<tyhicks> I'll be working on seccomp logging improvements for snappy
<tyhicks> I revived and nearly finished off my old multiple apparmor policy caches branch last week while traveling
<tyhicks> if I find some down time, I may wrap that up and send it out for review
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jj isn't here now
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<tyhicks> oh
<tyhicks> I need to help out with reviews, if possible, so I'll be doing that instead of the finishing off the multiple apparmor policy caches feature
<tyhicks> looks like sarnold isn't here now
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: you're up
<jdstrand> tyhicks: does that mean that your merge will include the final systemd work?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: doubt it
<chrisccoulson> This week, I've got an Oxide release to publish. I've also got Firefox builds to prepare for next week's release
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I still haven't looked at what is in the debian merge so I can't say for sure how far away we'll be
<chrisccoulson> Firefox currently doesn't build on precise, so I need to investigate and fix that
<jdstrand> I have a little bit to do for snappy to handle regenerating policy on new versions of apparmor, but it keeps getting deprioritized (which is why I was curious)
<jdstrand> I'm not working on that this week so we won't collide, but thought I'd mention it in case we wanted to talk about something in this area
<chrisccoulson> I plan to spend some time reviewing santosh's media decoding branch
<tyhicks> jdstrand: thanks for mentioning that
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working on Oxide bugs as usual
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: how concerned are you about ff not building on precise?
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, not all that concerned
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: feeling like it is a relatively easy fix or are you looking at a lot of work for that?
<tyhicks> ok, good
<sarnold> tyhicks: sorry, here now
<tyhicks> sarnold: hey - go ahead
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week, and working down the list of reviews
<sarnold> first up is barbican, I think
<sarnold> that's it for me, tyhicks? :)
<tyhicks> sarnold: yep, barbican is the first
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/k4dirstat.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-muranoclient.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/criu.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dropbear.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libxml-security-java.html
<sarnold> criu is in universe?
<sarnold> interesting.
<tyhicks> I was slightly surprised by that, as well
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 25 16:50:33 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-25-16.30.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thank you! :)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-26
<ubuntu_> I am wondering if there is a Xen virtualization software download for ubuntu that one can apt-get?
<sarnold> ubuntu_: "apt-cache search xen" should report the packages that are availab
<ubuntu_> well i am on 14 version of ubuntu and i see there is xen-tools but other then that not to much for xen
<ubuntu_> Also kind of curious what currently for virtualization software is  the major players?
<ubuntu_> i have used vbox, kvm / qemu , virtual pc but never fully used vmware all that much or xen
<ubuntu_> And curious if i am missing any major players
<sarnold> vmware esxi is popular, but apperas to be losing ground to openstack installations
<sarnold> but openstack is a bit of a beast, I don't think I'd want to start with openstack unless I had more than a dozen machines to work with
<teward> sarnold: VMware ESXi is also not Ubuntu-based virtualization software, it's a full hypervisor
 * teward has two :P
<teward> it's also not cheap if you need more than the basic features heh
<sarnold> teward: oh thanks for reminding me
<sarnold> ubuntu_: there's also microsoft hyperv. I don't know anything about it.
<teward> ESXi is designed for bare-metal installation, turning a whole server into a virtualization platform.  Also more Windows-centric for management tools
<teward> sarnold: I'm not a fan of HyperV.  A few issues cropped up using Ubuntu / Linux inside it if you have the most recent kernels
<teward> though that may just be HyperV-specific oddities
<teward> also needs Windows as your host OS
<ubuntu_> hyper-v i thought only runs on microsoft its a microsoft hypervisor version 1
<sarnold> ahh see I'm already learning, I thought it was a stand-alone tool :)
<teward> heheheh
<teward> sarnold: we all learn every day.
<teward> ubuntu_: you're right.  As a University student, I have multiple Win Server copies where I Tested HyperV
<teward> now I just keep it for the fileshares 'cause I need Windows-based fileshares for a few things on my network.
<teward> that said, I have two VMware ESXi hypervisors.  And VMware Workstation on my 14.04 laptop running Desktop Edition of Ubuntu
<teward> CPU / RAM are evil issues on Workstation
<teward> ESXi is kinder but requires dedicated hardwsare
<ubuntu_> Ok so what is the hardest virtualize software in your opinon to  get uses to or become good at using
<teward> hardest to get used to?
<teward> qemu/kvm without the gui virt manager.
<teward> but that's my own two cents
 * teward is a power user and is fairly familiar with a bunch of different evilsystems
<ubuntu_> really more difficult the vmware
<teward> ubuntu_: each person finds different systems to be more or less difficult
<teward> my headaches were centered around what worked for me, and what solutions I could get and deploy fairly easily
<teward> for me that was VMware 'cause I get student discounts (YAY!)
<teward> but also because I Have two 24GB-RAM servers I can drop a lot of VMs on
<teward> (23 active across both servers, and counting)
<ubuntu_> Also for hypervisor i have seen  it looks pretty easy to uses the gui form but i had an os that i was setting up hypervisor and it just gave me a blue screen with 8 options to configure where they hell is the gui part for hypervisor
<teward> FYI, we should probably move to a support room
<teward> sarnold: unrelated, I have an apparmor 'best practices' question, wrt bind9, should I ask that in -hardened, or -server?
<teward> s/apparmor/apparmor \/ /
<sarnold> teward: hmm, either I guess :) or #apparmor on oftc, haha
<teward> lol
<teward> sarnold: or #bind here lol
<teward> sarnold: main reason for asking is the AA profile in 16.04 annoys me and breaks migrating configs as is from a 14.04 server, so...
<teward> :P
<teward> may as well hunt down best practices now, adapt apparmor accordingly, and 'LOCK IT ALL DOWN'
<teward> :P
<smoser> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
 * smoser is charing 
<smoser> or chairing even
<cpaelzer> charity
<rharper> o/
<rharper> cpaelzer: =)
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 26 16:02:02 2016 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> Welcome back my friends
<smoser> to the show that never ends
<smoser> we're so glad you could attend
<smoser> come inside, come inside
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> no action points. this is good.
<smoser> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> there is alpha2 for opt-in flavors this week.
<cpaelzer> regarding FF, since we weren't sure before
<cpaelzer> FYI: We just this week got confirmed that the Open Vswitch branching of 2.6 will be on 1st of August and thereby should work on without FFE. jamespage planned to do an early OVS package as soon as they branched and dpdk 16.07 should be kind of ready til then.
<smoser> the bigger release point was last thursday, with 16.04.1
<smoser> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2016/07/21/ubuntu-16-04-1-lts-released/
<smoser> and, yeah, as cpaelzer said. feature freeze is August 18.
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> wow.
<smoser> bug 1604128
<ubottu> bug 1604128 in maas (Ubuntu Xenial) "[2.0RC2] Unable to add a public SSH Key due to lp1604147" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604128
<smoser> With a recent update of python from 3.5.1 to 3.5.2, the pathlib.Path.path property is gone.
<smoser> reportedly that happened from 3.5.1 to 3.5.2. i woudl nto have expected that
<smoser> please take a look at those 2 urls, if you see something there that you could help triage or fix, please do
<rharper> smoser: wow
<smoser> so we'll move on.
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<smoser> is this topic still valid to point at caribou ?
<smoser> he's not her, so we'll go on.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<powersj> New CI job structure in place, allowing for matrix runs across different architectures and breaking out tests in YAML for better scaling/organization. This mornings runs were red, but I have fixed all those up now. I am still trying to find a better way of not testing in production :)
<powersj> cloud-init migration to git means CI is broken for git related merges/commits. The LaunchPad plugin does not support git. I have filed LP#1606394 to see if anyone has any thoughts or advice on how to get started with that. This will take some work.
<powersj> External Jenkins is possible, but our URL would need to change (https://jenkins.canonical.com/server), any objections to that? This may mean a day or so of downtime while I update the slaves. If I hear nothing I am going to request the migration to an external address
<smoser> i have no issue with updating urls.
<powersj> ok
<powersj> and note my issue with git CI :)
<rharper> powersj: +1 on the update
<smoser> powersj, thanks for filing bug. yeah. i'll look a bit there too.
<smoser> anyone have anything for powersj ?
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Not much to report. Currently trying to fix some stupid bcache on ppc64le problem
<smoser> ah. nice. do you have a bug number?
<smoser> this is from curtin's vmtest ?
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1602299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1602299 in linux (Ubuntu) "bcache is unstable on ppc64el" [High,Confirmed]
<smoser> thank you smb.
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<smoser> anyone have anything here?
<smoser> or
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> i dont know of anything coming up... anyone else ?
<smoser> and going on...
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> i'll throw in an announcement / topic here.
<smoser> cloud-init is in the process of
<smoser> a.) moving to launchpad git for its version control system
<smoser> b.) targetting a release of 0.7.7 after long time
<smoser>  https://launchpad.net/cloud-init/+milestone/0.7.7
<smoser> if you are aware of bugs you think need fixing there, please let me knwo.
<teward> wow I'm horribly late to the server team meeting heh.
<smoser> the goal is to do release on the 4th of august
<smoser> teward, you are horribly late. but if you grovel sufficiently you may be forgiven.
 * smoser updates the 'Expected' release date there to not be a saturday
<smoser> anyone have aything else for open topics ?
<smoser> if not...
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> ok... so one wekk from today is Tuesday August 2
<smoser> Tue Aug  2 16:00:00 UTC 2016
<smoser> Tue, 02 Aug 2016 16:00:00 +0000
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 26 16:23:10 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-26-16.02.moin.txt
<teward> smoser: didn't get a chance to say it, but working on the nginx merge still - rebuilding the delta is tricky, 'cause I apparently missed things off the changelogs...
<smoser> teward, thanks!
<teward> won't be here next week for the meeting, will send to the ML though if any major news comes in
<teward> not sure it'll land before FF though
<teward> (we're all busy, and the delta 'redo' needs a second set of eyes before i'm comfortable including)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-28
<sil2100> o/
<pitti> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<xnox> pitti, i think slangasek said last week that you will run this meeting this week, no?!
 * xnox looks at chat logs
<xnox> (cause sprints etc)
<pitti> oh, did he? ok
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 28 15:01:42 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<pitti> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<pitti> caribou infinity slangasek cyphermox pitti tdaitx bdmurray robru sil2100 doko barry xnox chiluk
<chiluk> o/
<pitti> no caribou or infinity, or slangasek  -- cyphermox ?
<cyphermox> oh really
<cyphermox> well, I was on vacation for the past two weeks
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<cyphermox> - prepare new shim to fix LoadOptions bug on some firmwares
<cyphermox> - grub2 bug fix for bug LP: #1229458 (UEFI IPv6 PXE booting -- routing broken)
<cyphermox> - revision of the debconf prompts in shim-signed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229458 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grubnetx64.efi tftp client does not work over ipv6" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229458
<cyphermox> - planning development work for key usage logic in shim
<cyphermox> - ubiquity merges, bugfixing for scaling on HiDPI.
<cyphermox> other:
<cyphermox> - email catch up
<cyphermox> - testing new shim
<cyphermox> - filed RT for shim signature
<cyphermox> - catching up with installer work
<cyphermox> (done)
<pitti> netplan: further development, create LP project, land in yakkety (package "nplan"); please experiment and give feedback; started to write detailled documentation
<pitti> systemd-session: convert further services, review landing silo problems; most of the necessary infra is in yakkety now, except systemd 231-1 (which just needs an mdadm merge, xnox is on it); planning to flip the switch next week
<pitti> merges: apparmor, ebtables, nfs-utils, scsitools
<pitti> Build new full langpacks for trusty for point release
<pitti> Debug and propose a fix for networking restart/ssh deadlock (#1584393)
<pitti> Discuss/investigate using systemd (for snaps) on trusty, have a PoC now (in https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/ubuntu/systemd)
<pitti> Investigate apt regression in -proposed (#1607283)
<pitti> NOTE: I will be on holidays for 1.5 weeks from next Wed on
<pitti> (eof)
<tdaitx> Short week: Away on Thursday afternoon and Friday the whole day (moving to a new place); worked fewer hours on the remainig days (burned half-day 'vacation' to compensate)
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - Packaging and testing IcedTea 2.6.7 pre01
<tdaitx> = Merges
<tdaitx> - Restarted work on isc-dhcp
<tdaitx> = AOB
<tdaitx> - Still no internet; working from a co-working space
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> tdaitx: isc-dhcp?
<bdmurray> reported bug regarding canonical-is-charm for haproxy
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> review of trusty HWE unit tests for update-manager
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager with HWE support to yakkety
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager ppa changelogs merge proposal
<bdmurray> review of halted phased updates
<bdmurray> research into component-mismatches bug opened status issue
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal fixing component-mismatches bug
<bdmurray> code review for robru regarding bileto
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> cyphermox, yes
<tdaitx> it is a merge, I started working on that and then the openjdk security update happened
<cyphermox> ah ok
<robru> oh sorry
<robru> one sec
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * finished, landed, and rolled out new status job
<robru> * babysat rollout and fixed some issues that popped up in production
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> * ripped out old status job
<robru> (done)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Various discussions related to future touch plans
<sil2100> - Touch xenial:
<sil2100>   * Fixing overall ubuntu-touch build failures due to dropped overlay changes
<sil2100>   * Found missing binary package for gst-plugins-bad1.0 for arm64
<sil2100>   * No hybris expert around, had to dig into hybris issues myself
<sil2100>   * Fixed libhybris to be compatible with a stricter gcc
<sil2100>   * Fixed unresolved symbols in libhybris for the mm linker, did a lot of debugging on a chroot
<sil2100>   * Enabled gst hybris plugin for arm64 with the new hybris, forced hybris android version 23 for arm64
<sil2100> - OTA-12:
<sil2100>   * Preparing release notes, generating commitlogs
<sil2100>   * Promoting images, phasing updates, sending announcements
<cyphermox> sil2100: poor you, hybris is ugly.
<sil2100> - Publishing the unblocked address-book-app to yakkety
<sil2100> - Adding a new script to landing-team-tools for generating commitlogs from selected manifests
<sil2100> - Started work on switching commitlogs to new bileto published_versions
<sil2100> - Discussing the possibility of backporting boost 1.58 to the overlay
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> Yeah, it is
<sil2100> But it was nice to see some C code again, I miss that
<pitti> doko: ?
<xnox> see email
<sil2100> He sent his summary through e-mail
<pitti> urgh, no barry either -- where is everyone/?
<pitti> xnox:
<xnox> Fix partman-btrfs in yakkety - failing to install anything
<xnox> s390-zfcp - sponsor patch from ibm to debian,  sync to ubuntu, SRU to do
<xnox> python-cassandra-driver - SRU python regression fix
<xnox> CPC - help with ubuntu on windows images
<xnox> fixed mdadm regressions, will be synced to ubuntu today
<xnox> btrfs - uploaded into debian, and synced to ubuntu
<xnox> ISMS mdadm - not looked into yet, need to shuffle 300GB of data off that raid first to test installer on it =)
<xnox> done
<xnox> pitti, must be summer or something =)
<pitti> chiluk: ?
<pitti> xnox: yeah, with all my colleagues disappearing I better go off too :)
<pitti> ok, c'est Ã§a apparently
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> ?
<chiluk> woops sorry pitti.. got distracted
<chiluk> Intel Power management issues
<chiluk> LP#1578840
<chiluk> LP#1579917
<chiluk> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+question/293705
<chiluk> Determined my reproducer to be related to my nvidia card.  However once the card was pulled, and the Intel graphics became primary, I found the processor to not spend as much time in low pc states even though it was now able to reach pc6.
<chiluk> Worked a bit on zfs services not starting cleanly on first-boot due to missing /etc/mtab.  LP not filed yet.
<bdmurray> Could somebody have a look at bug 1571679?
<ubottu> bug 1571679 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "fwupdate-signed doesn't get installed on upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571679
<chiluk> -done
<pitti> thanks everyone
<pitti> AOB, take II?
<xnox> bdmurray, i can look into that. i use fwupdate
<bdmurray> xnox: okay, thanks
<xnox> we did plan to make -signed to be auto-installed at last release sprint with apw or some such
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 28 15:25:55 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-28-15.01.moin.txt
<tdaitx> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-29
<ubuntu_> Does anybody get MAAS cloud based installs of ubuntu server there is rack and region options not fully sure about the difference...
<ubuntu_> Is this really for cloud computing or for clustering?
<ubuntu_> is there away to list the contents of a package one apt-cache search for but wants to look at the contents its going to install before installing it on his system something like a dpkg -L but not have to download it
<ubuntu_> Because that would be greate in find /locate particular packages that have libraries or header file dependencies you want
<ubuntu_> but cann't find easilly
<sarnold> ubuntu_: it depends what you want; apt-get --simulate can do that. apt-file search can do the latter..
<ubuntu_> Well i want to go thru apt-cache search . | grep "regex" then all the packages i get pack beable to dpkg -L there contents / search there internal contents before downloading
<sarnold> install apt-file
<ubuntu_> I guess i could just download the whole repo's i guess then dpkg -L them greping the output
<sarnold> it'll do what you want
<sarnold> you certainly can download the whole repo if you want; my mirror is around 1TB of data..
<ubuntu_> I understand how does apt-file work is it using any HDD space
<ubuntu_> or memory
<ubuntu_> Or just reading remotely
<sarnold> apt-file requires around 33 megabytes
<sarnold> a lot smaller than the whole archive :)
<ubuntu_> of memory or disk space
<sarnold> disk space
<ubuntu_> cool
<ubuntu_> no not really that cool seems overly complicated just to do a search for a type of expression thru the repo and to bring back the packages that have the expression
<sarnold> hmm, I thought you wanted to find specific files
<ubuntu_> i want to search for say a file say myfile.h  and bring back all packages in the repo that have that file in them. Just showing the package one can apt-get that has myfile.h in them say or some.so file say
<ubuntu_> Seems like apt-file displays long file paths  ... , etc ,etc
<ubuntu_> I wanted a tool to beable to search for files or folders or regex  thru out the repo and would bring back all packages that have them in them.
<sarnold> ubuntu_: try "apt-file search -x 'lib.*ssl.*so'
<ubuntu_> I hope you get what i am saying... this would make it 1000 times easier in finding packages you have to install to clear up your dependency issues on .h files or .so   at the preprocessor stage or the  compiling/linking stages
<ubuntu_> ya thats what i want perfect
<ubuntu_> so then apt-file search -x 'sys/exec.h'  bring back only libwibble-dev means that there is virtually no package that can clear this make error up in the standard ubuntu repo's
<ubuntu_> csu/boot.h:39:22: fatal error: sys/exec.h: No such file or directory
<ubuntu_>  #include <sys/exec.h>
<sarnold> whichever project supplied your csu/boot.h file probably has a list of packages that needs to be installed
<ubuntu_> granted i am trying to compile openbsd on ubuntu and have the bmake package installed
<ubuntu_> where would that be it was downloaded from the openbsd source branch in there repo's
<sarnold> ah
<sarnold> you've got a very interesting project on your hands :)
<ubuntu_> and i realized i need bmake the bsd make because i was getting all issues with no target,...etc issue... having got by all that i am left with the usual make header file issue or library dependencies missing
<ubuntu_> so i thought if i had a tool like apt-file i could locate the missing packages more quickly or at least figure out if they exist in the standard repo's of ubuntu ...
<sarnold> probably that file is supplied by the openbsd libc package
<ubuntu_> I realize if apt-file is right there is no package
<sarnold> right
<ubuntu_> ya but you still need the header files and libraries to compile/build the openbsd source .. and if there is not an equivalent ubuntu package for it how are you going to build the source ever
<sarnold> well, from an openbsd machine :) hehe
<sarnold> bedtime here, have fun, good luck :)
<ubuntu_> I guess one next move would be to hunt down the header/libary files maybe wget them from *bsd site and put symbolic links in the /usr/include directory
<sarnold> don't bother wget, just cvs the whole tree https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
<ubuntu_> then bmake it
<sarnold> and don't pollute your own /usr/include
<sarnold> stick it in a home directory or /opt or something
<ubuntu_> But this gets back into the chicken and egg problem of located header/library files obviously there cann't be a general search tool like apt-file for everything plus would probably be far to cumbersome...
<ubuntu_> so a developer is always left with waiting on where the header files and libraries are
<ubuntu_> I mean i feel pretty confident that if i found them i could just hopefully add symbolic links to folders in the /usr/include file
<sarnold> no :)
<sarnold> hehe
<ubuntu_> for the installation instead of having to  add a 100 lines of -I  includes
<sarnold> the openbsd libc is very closely tied to the openbsd kernel
<sarnold> the openbsd applications are very closely tied to the openbsd libc
<sarnold> trying to build the entirety of openbsd on a linux distribution is going to be a crazy amount of work
<ubuntu_> So i am going to have to compile on a kvm based virtual machine on a linux not on bare metal linux
<sarnold> you _might_ be able to do it
<sarnold> maybe not
<sarnold> yes, running openbsd in qemu would be a significantly faster way to get there
<ubuntu_> well the might beable to do it hinges on figure out all the packages i need to wget and placing them in the proper places for the bmake Makefile
<sarnold> hehe but they'll fall apart when they try to include structures from the C libraries, and the glibc structures won't line up with the openbsd structures, and the openbsd libc can't speak to the linux kernel...
<sarnold> trust me, this is a far more difficult problem than just wgetting the right things
<ubuntu_> I am curious if one was to figure out all the include dependencies/libraries and download them could he uses symlinks in the /usr/include file and keep the directories seperated from linuxes good include files?
<ubuntu_> Or will Makefiles choke whent he see symlinks instead of files
<sarnold> how? they both expect e.g. /usr/include/stdio.h to exist and be appropriate -- if you replaced /usr/include/stdio.h with the version from openbsd, you could not compile linux programs
<sarnold> and the openbsd /usr/include/stdio.h will include a thousand other files, all the way back to the headers that make systemcalls; the syscalls won't line up between the two systems
<ubuntu_> Ok so then is there away to tell a Makefile to uses a different /usr/include something like a chroot to a different /usr/include where you store your openbsd user land stuff
<sarnold> if I were to tackle this problem I'd want a team of four or five geniuses and I'd expect the first program to run in a year or so.
<sarnold> ubuntu_: CFLAGS=-I
<ubuntu_> I ?
<sarnold> gcc uses -I to know where to look for <> headers
<ubuntu_> you mean -I on command line . Or uses CFLAG=yourpathtobsdfiles
<sarnold> both, CFLAGS=-I/path/to/openbsd/headers
<sarnold> you've got ambitious goals, I'll give you that :) haha
<sarnold> now it's really bed time
<sarnold> have fun
<ubuntu_> Ok not practical when it comes to calling kernel level stuff would have to  build the kernel first then the userland
<ubuntu_> But building the kernel shouldn't depended on much external libraries as the userland depends on the kernel. The kernel itself should be doable provide you get all the headers for the kernel source
<ubuntu_> I think it would all have to be self contained in bsd kernel source code... hummm confused
<ubuntu_> think more about it later
<Guest72125> Good Morning.  Not sure if this is the right room to ask but my Ubuntu Upgrade hung waiting for terminal input.
<Guest72125> Could someone help or tell me the proper room
<Guest72125> to ask for help in, please.
<Kilos> hi Guest72125 join #ubuntu
<Guest72125> Thanks Kilos
<Kilos> you welcome
<Guest72125> Have a good day
<Kilos> you too ty
<Guest72125> ty
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-31
<sdfsadgjak> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-24
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> hi
<leosilva> hi
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 24 16:30:02 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) provided debdiffs for trusty-artful for vlc (LP: #1693893)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1693893 in vlc (Ubuntu Artful) "Fix out-of-bounds read, potential heap buffer overflow, and other CVEs" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1693893
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> Last week I attended the Product sprint and didn't focus on development work.
<jdstrand> This week I plan to:
<jdstrand> * take outputs from the sprint and integrate them into trello, do follow-ups, etc
<jdstrand> * be responsive to various snappy PRs and feature discussions
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<jdstrand> * continue on wayland and wayland desktop interfaces
<jdstrand> * followup on users/groups in snapd
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently releasing some updates
<mdeslaur> and I have some more to work on
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I have openjdk-8 updates to test and publish, waiting on td aitx for openjdk-7
<sbeattie> I have some kernel signoff tasks to do
<sbeattie> also waiting for the xenial updates from the last round to publish USNs for (there was 4? respins)
<sbeattie> I'll work on the list of needed updates as well
<sbeattie> that's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> I have quite a bit of sprint followup up to do
<tyhicks> need to capture any missing notes from sessions
<tyhicks> still getting caught up on email that couldn't be tended to while I was sprinting last week
<tyhicks> I've identified what I think is a better potential solution for userspace being able to tell the kernel what seccomp actions it wants logged and I've started on that feature
<tyhicks> there's an fscrypt pam module that I need to review and package
<tyhicks> I also need to get to the bottom of fscrypt build tests and whether they're appropriate for running on the builders
<tyhicks> finally, I need to familiarize myself with the current LSM stacking patch set
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> This week I am working on apparmor upstreaming. Specifically I need to give another once over to the various patches that are "done".
<jjohansen> I need to do a revision on the mount patch around pivot root.
<jjohansen> I need to finish up some stacking and namespace related revisions that I didn't manage to land in 4.13, and I need to continue with the networking patch revisions.
<jjohansen> I also need to poke some more at LSM stacking and finish with my linux plumbers booking.
<jjohansen> I think thats it for me
<jjohansen> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on CVE triage this week, and running down the MIRs
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'll be spending a lot of time trying to get rust and cargo updated to the required versions this week
<chrisccoulson> And I'll probably spend some more time going through my list of spidermonkey patches to attempt backports too
<chrisccoulson> That's probably it for me - I've no other updates planned this week
<tyhicks> Emily is out so lets go to leosilva
<leosilva> I worked in some updtes last week - apport and some publishments.
<leosilva> this wee I want to finish mysql update, publish samba and get/search for new updates for precise/esm
<leosilva> that is for me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's back to you
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tt-rss.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gtkwave.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/node-qs.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jetty9.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/r-base.html
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 24 16:46:16 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-24-16.30.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks
<leosilva> thanks tyhicks !
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: You're welcome. :)
<tsimonq2> By the way, who's on community this week? Once I get caught up from being AFK for almost a week, I have some more things...
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: sbeattie is on the community role this week
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: Ok, thank you.
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-25
<powersj> o/
<rbasak> o/
<powersj> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 25 16:01:00 2017 UTC.  The chair is powersj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<powersj> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<powersj> few people out this week, so I'm going to skip those action items
<powersj> rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<dpb1> o/
<powersj> rbasak: ^ any update there
<rbasak> Sorry, please carry over again
<powersj> ok I'll carry over all action items then
<powersj> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<powersj> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<powersj> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<powersj> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<powersj> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<powersj> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<powersj> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<powersj> #subtopic Current Work
<powersj> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<powersj> Any updates or comments on artful?
<powersj> nope guess not
<powersj> #subtopic Release Bugs
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> quiet week
<powersj> #info no updates
<powersj> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> o/
<powersj> #info both members are out this week
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> #info last week continued work on cloud-init kvm backend. Submitted SRUs for logcheck and postfix
<powersj> #info this week working on debconf presentation for cloud-init
<powersj> quesitons for me?
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Right now I have nothing new. A lot of systemd.networkd woes should be now fixed but I had not yet time to do testing again. Are there questions for me/the kernel-team?
<powersj> thanks smb, looks quiet
<ahasenack> thx for the update
<powersj> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<powersj> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<powersj> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<powersj> #link https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/containers-micro-conference-at-linux-plumbers-2017/262
<powersj> rbasak: you mentioned one conference earlier
<rbasak> Ah yes
<ahasenack> ubucon?
<rbasak> https://ubucon.paris/?lang=en
<rbasak> CfP: https://talks.ubucon.paris/conference/UbuCon
<powersj> #info Looking at ubucon
<ahasenack> is it the first one?
<powersj> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<powersj> I don't think we have anything coming up
<powersj> haven't done a bug squashing day in a while though
<rbasak> ahasenack: I believe there have been one or two before.
<powersj> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<powersj> Anything here?
<dpb1> hi everyone
 * dpb1 had to say something this meeting.
<dpb1> :)
<ahasenack> 2nd ubucon europe
<ahasenack> interesting
<powersj> last call...
<powersj> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<powersj> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-08-01 at 1600 UTC, chair will be nacc
<powersj> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 25 16:16:18 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-25-16.01.moin.txt
<powersj> o/
<ahasenack> thx powersj
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-27
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<Odd_Bloke> o/
<chiluk> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 27 15:02:02 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint rcj philroche Odd_Bloke Tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> Tribaal infinity xnox cyphermox rbalint tdaitx doko slangasek sil2100 Odd_Bloke philroche rcj mwhudson fginther bdmurray
 * Tribaal is on holiday today so nothing to report.
<slangasek> I believe Tribaal is out
<slangasek> heh
<Tribaal> Indeed :)
<slangasek> and infinity is not on channel
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> 16.04.3 SRUs; util-linux upgrade; systemd-upgrade; s390x fixes; python transition; wsl fixups. Done
<xnox> #HIGHLIGHT python3.6 migrated
<gaughen> woo hoo! definitely a highlight
<xnox> well, mostly mwhudson achievement.
<gaughen> mwhudson, that woo hoo was for you
<tdaitx> hmm, my znc is misbehaving, I have no previous log =/
<tdaitx> plz tell me when I should paste my status
<cyphermox> not yet
<cyphermox> xnox: are you done?
<fginther> rcj, we do have a zesty 20170727 daily in azure
<xnox> yes.
<bdmurray> tdaitx: after cyphermox
<cyphermox> alrighty then
<cyphermox> - ubiquity-slideshow updates
<cyphermox> - SRU verifications for shim (chainloading)
<cyphermox> - preparing upload for grub2/-signed SRU of bug 1696599 to trusty
<cyphermox> - shim module self-signing:
<cyphermox>   - dkms update to use kmodsign; enroll key
<ubottu> bug 1696599 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Trusty) "backport/sync UEFI, Secure Boot support " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696599
<cyphermox>   - shim -> migrate to re-enable validation; update triggers for self-signing
<cyphermox>   - testing, testing, testing
<cyphermox> (not yet a highlight, but when it gets uploaded, yes)
<cyphermox> - some shim/Secure Boot discussions with upstream, code review
<cyphermox> - answered IRC questions about packaging/networking/dhcpcd from slash_d and t_simonq2
<cyphermox> (done)
<tdaitx> bdmurray, thanks
<tdaitx> > [HIGHLIGHT] OpenJDK 8 has been released with 8u141 security patches
<tdaitx> * included new mbind patch to openjdk 8 update, packaged, tested, uploaded to the security team (LP: #1705763)
<tdaitx> * verified openjdk-9 doclint issue (Debian #866908)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1705763 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "PPC64: "mbind: Invalid argument" still seen after 8175813" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705763
<tdaitx> - various packages FTBFS due to the strict HTML4 rules
<tdaitx> - HTML5 as default does not help, packages are indeed using invalid javadoc
<tdaitx> - works when doclint is disabled by a patch
<tdaitx> * moving on to the last security patch that requires backport in openjdk-7
<gaughen> cyphermox, is it worth including in the dev summary as something that's coming?
<tdaitx> AOB:
<ubottu> Debian bug 866908 in src:openjdk-9 "doclint has returned from the grave" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/866908
<tdaitx> - Oracle missed CVE-2017-10243/S8182054 in the Risk Matrix
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> ** <A HREF="http://cve.mitre.org/about/faqs.html#reserved_signify_in_cve_id">RESERVED</A> ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2017-10243)
<cyphermox> gaughen: possibly.
<slangasek> we also have rbalint's status, sent by email:
<slangasek> * finish unattended-updates update round LP: #1690980 et al.
<slangasek> * forward Ubuntu delta to Debian BTS: #763856 #869367
<slangasek> * sync request LP: #1706946
<slangasek> * preparations for the libevent transition
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "unattended-upgrades does not block shutdown of system, as it is designed to" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1706946 in crash (Ubuntu) "Sync crash 7.1.9-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706946
<slangasek>   - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=libevent-20170726&users=rbalint%40ubuntu.com;dist=unstable
<slangasek>   - https://launchpad.net/~rbalint/+archive/ubuntu/libevent-2.1/+packages
<slangasek> (highlight "Major for unattended-updates to fix reliability issues")
<slangasek> (done)
<sil2100> Oh, me?
<sil2100> - Last week: Warsaw Sprint
<sil2100> - Kernel and regular SRU reviews
<sil2100>   * xenial queue as priority for incoming point-release
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Preparing change for skipping snap.sh in proposed migration
<slangasek> no
<sil2100>   * Re-released 1.1, made sure it migrates this time, pushed SRUs
<gaughen> slangasek, anything to highlight in balint's status?
<sil2100>   * Touched base with Gary Wang on his help with ubuntu-image for classic, assigned work, sync-calls
<sil2100>   * Removed yakkety from CI and release scripts
<sil2100> - KPIs:
<sil2100>   * Looked into proper ways to get good metrics on uploaders, blocked on LP and permissions
<sil2100>   * Prepared metrics for some approximate uploader-count statistics (now merged)
<slangasek> gaughen: the thing that he wrote highlight on :)
<sil2100>   * Prepared some metrics for SRU-related stuff (pull request submitted, actually I duped Brian's work!)
<sil2100> - Released new google SDK packages to partner, waiting on reviews
<sil2100> - Help in getting an MRE formalized for the OpenStack bits
<sil2100> (done)
<gaughen> oooh there it is
 * gaughen hangs head in shame
<slangasek>  * Product Roadmap sprint last week; travel swap on Monday
<slangasek>  * discussions on design of livepatch integration into desktop UX and motd
<slangasek>  * planning around SecureBoot on POWER (LP: #1696154)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1696154 in linux (Ubuntu) "[17.10 FEAT] Sign POWER host/NV kernels" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696154
<slangasek>  * tracking of various IBM ppc64el bugs
<slangasek>  * capturing more data about proposed-migration for purposes of tracking queue size https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/britney/britney1-more-stats
<slangasek>  * working the proposed-migration queue, with miscellaneous library transitions and fixing of stuck packages
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> ohh, SB on POWER?
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke:
<Odd_Bloke> - Warsaw sprint
<Odd_Bloke> - refactoring of cloud image publication code
<Odd_Bloke> - a variety of KPI work
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox: yes, but there's no shim so there's nothing interesting to do ;)
<cyphermox> well.
<slangasek> philroche:
<philroche> - build system maintenance
<philroche> - automated promotion for new build system
<cyphermox> there is a new grub artefact to generate
<gaughen> cyphermox, slangasek says there's really no work for our team on SB for Power
<gaughen> that it's just coordination
<philroche> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox: no there isn't
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> heh
<slangasek> rcj:
<rcj> * tending fires, squashing bugs
<gaughen> * writing status
<rcj> * fixed livecd-rootfs artful builds
<rcj> (done)
<gaughen> * did some manifest stuff
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Short week (3 days) due to holidays
<fginther> * Design doc to provide automatic image delivery for a specific cloud
<fginther> * Backporting automated image publication workflow improvements to older releases
<cyphermox> "<someone> * did stuff."
<fginther> * HIGHLIGHT EOL yakkety images
<gaughen> * EOL is super done now.
<fginther> done
<bdmurray> resolved apport autopkgtest failures in artful
<bdmurray> merged apport artful changes into upstream branch
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding whoopsie and network-manager and systemd
<bdmurray> fixed ubuntu-manual-tests to accuractely reflect the steps needed
<bdmurray> reviewed & uploaded rcj's fix for livecd-rootfs bug LP: #1706116
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1706116 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "Path to VMDKstream.py changed in artful" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706116
<bdmurray> reported apt-file bug LP: #1706163 (dialog w/ broken run button)
<bdmurray> reported update-notifier bug LP: #1706168 (don't show dialog)
<bdmurray> tested balint's PPA for unattended-upgrades LP: #1690980
<bdmurray> reported whoopsie bug LP: #1706195 regarding starting before n-m
<bdmurray> fixed ISO tracker mention of upgrade from Trusty to Artful
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1706163 in apt-file (Ubuntu) "apt-file-update left on disk after upgrade to 3.1.4" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706163
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1706168 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "dialog shouldn't be display if Command doesn't exist" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706168
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "unattended-upgrades does not block shutdown of system, as it is designed to" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1706195 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Zesty) "whoopsie can start before network-manager during boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706195
<bdmurray> discovered breakage in tool that updates test cases in the ISO tracker, emailed ubuntu-qa about it
<bdmurray> uploaded TXZ SRUs for LP: #1607929, added a test case to it too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1607929 in update-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "update-manager: missing dependency on libgtk2-perl for debconf frontend" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1607929
<bdmurray> uploaded Artful fix, XZ SRUs for whoopsie bug LP: #1706195
<bdmurray> added a test case to whoopsie bug LP: #1706195
<bdmurray> review of sil2100's uploader counter KPI PR
<bdmurray> setup and documented local juju prometheus push gateway
<bdmurray> replied to robie's email regarding exceptional MREs
<bdmurray> email to ubuntu-quality regarding the QA tracker
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> submitted pull requests regarding issues with metrics
<Odd_Bloke> * -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<bdmurray> nope
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bug queue
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug queue
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> So bug 1647638 I think we can take that off of incoming
<ubottu> bug 1647638 in apt (Ubuntu) "W: APT had planned for dpkg to do more than it reported back" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647638
<slangasek> wfm
<bdmurray> I ran into bug 1706168 this week and wanted to talk about it
<ubottu> bug 1706168 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "dialog shouldn't be display if Command doesn't exist" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706168
<xnox> also i planned to tag rls-aa-incomming https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nplan/+bug/1706869 but i have misspelled the tag
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1706869 in nplan (Ubuntu) "ADT tests fail on i386 only in artful-proposed with new util-linux" [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> bdmurray: I saw that bug report when you filed it, it seemed a straightforward improvement
<bdmurray> slangasek: is it worth targetting for this release though? How many things use update-notifier hooks?
<slangasek> I am unsure
<slangasek> only a handful
<xnox> msftcorefonts installer thing?
 * xnox ponders that msftcorefonts should be a snap
<slangasek> $ ls -l /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/firefox-restart-required
<slangasek> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 444 Mar 24  2011 /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/firefox-restart-required
<slangasek> I seem to have some old stuff there
<slangasek> bdmurray: I think the impact is probably not high enough to target for this cycle
<slangasek> at least as I understand the impact
<bdmurray> slangasek: The result kind of sucks, but I don't think many people will hit it.
<bdmurray> slangasek: Also apt-file really should be fixed to clean up the hook.
<slangasek> yes, agreed
<bdmurray> I'll remove the tag from the update-notifier bug.
<slangasek> bug #1706869, cyphermox will take a look
<ubottu> bug 1706869 in nplan (Ubuntu) "ADT tests fail on i386 only in artful-proposed with new util-linux" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706869
<cyphermox> gaughen: need card for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nplan/+bug/1706869
<slangasek> removed tag from LP: #1553592
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1553592 in casper (Ubuntu) "16.04 casper 15_autologin file contains obsolete lightdm configuration" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553592
<slangasek> bug #1669564
<ubottu> bug 1669564 in systemd (Ubuntu) "udevadm trigger subsystem-match=net doesn't always run rules" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1669564
<slangasek> bdmurray: you marked this one rls-z-incoming
<slangasek> taking
<slangasek> LP: #1681528
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1681528 in apport (Ubuntu) "Include information about python versions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681528
<slangasek> bdmurray: importance: high?
<slangasek> (set)
<bdmurray> slangasek: Yeah, I think we get enough bugs where people have some goofy python stuff going on that it should be.
<slangasek> LP: #1689668
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689668 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "dialog to resolve config file conflicts can be only one line high" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689668
<slangasek> ugh that's horrible
<slangasek> taking this one
<slangasek> LP: #1696981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1696981 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "fixrtc is ineffective when there is no battery for the RTC" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696981
<slangasek> I'm not sure this is currently high priority for 17.10, but there's a patch
<rcj> There's a patch that looks decent.
<bdmurray> So somebody should just do it?
<slangasek> yeah
<rcj> Not sure about defaulting to 2017-06-09 (or something) as the date if it can't figure anything out.  Epoch 0 is a better flag to say clock-is-wrong
<bdmurray> Not it
<slangasek> I don't think it needs to be in our committed queue however, I think it should be sponsorship queue
<slangasek> (untagged)
<slangasek> LP: #1690125
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690125 in systemd (Ubuntu) "hybrid control goup mode breaks lxc adt tests" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690125
<bdmurray> Have you seen the sponsorship queue?
<slangasek> yes
<xnox> slangasek, i thought the hybrid stuff was fixed.
<xnox> as in i blacklisted the test =)
<Odd_Bloke> Why does the rls-aa-notfixing page not have counts in the header for each team like the other pages do?
<bdmurray> Why do you care?
<slangasek> counts of things we've declined seem less interesting
<Odd_Bloke> bdmurray: I'm idly writing a KPI script. :p
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: they should be tagged rls-z-notfixingeverver
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: so searchTasks with tag and package_subscriber(?)=foundations-bugs
<slangasek> 1690125 declined, xnox to follow up with lxc upstream
<slangasek> LP: #1665701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1665701 in btrfs-progs (Ubuntu) "Missing inspect-internal command" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1665701
<bdmurray> structural_subscriber
<slangasek> looks to me like this was fixed in curtin and the btrfs part is not-a-bug
<bdmurray> bug 1685484
<slangasek> LP: #1685484
<ubottu> bug 1685484 in systemd (Ubuntu) "DHCP exit hook for setting systemd-timesyncd NTP servers doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685484
<slangasek> taking (medium)
<slangasek> LP: #1692870
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692870 in zlib (Ubuntu Zesty) "gzip compression broken in UniFi (built-in tomcat)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692870
<slangasek> postponing
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> seems not
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 27 16:02:36 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-27-15.02.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<sil2100> Thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-28
<Buena> Holisss, Buenass:-*
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-23
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 23 16:31:43 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> Thanks to Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) for providing a debdiff for qutebrowser in bionic (LP: #1781295) and debdiffs for kwallet-pam in xenial-bionic (LP: #1768649)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1781295 in qutebrowser (Ubuntu Bionic) "CVE-2018-10895: Possible remote code execution via CSRF in qute://settings " [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768649 in pam-kwallet (Ubuntu Trusty) "[CVE] Access to privileged files" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768649
<ratliff> Thanks to Dan Streetman (ddstreet) for providing debdiffs for libxstream-java for trusty and xenial (LP: #1780844)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780844 in libxstream-java (Ubuntu Xenial) "CVE-2017-7957: XStream through 1.4.9 mishandles attempts to create an instance of the primitive type 'void'" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780844
<ratliff> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Thank you!
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team is hiring. See https://grnh.se/8c0a6c1f1 for more details.
<ratliff> We welcome Mike Salvatore and Eduardo Barretto to the Ubuntu Security Team today! Welcome Mike and Eduardo! We are thrilled that you are joining us to help continue improving security for Ubuntu users!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I'm working on clamav updates
<mdeslaur> and hopefully we'll get new mysql releases that I can work on
<mdeslaur> that's about it from me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on an internal issue
<sbeattie> I'm also working on intel-microcode updates
<sbeattie> I have some other random tasks to pick up, before I go on vacation next week.
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<sbeattie> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have a few LSS-NA duties to take care of this week
<jjohansen> err, make that -EU
<jjohansen> I need to finish look into mjg's network labeling patch
<jjohansen> and I need to get back to working on prompt mode
<tsimonq2> pr
<tsimonq2> whoops
<ratliff> lol, good to see you tsimonq2! thanks for the updates! :)
<jjohansen> :)
<jjohansen> thats it for me
<jjohansen> sarnold: you are up
<tsimonq2> hehe ratliff :)
<tsimonq2> Thanks
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week
<sarnold> I'm preparing an apparmor presentation and sadly neglecting the desktop portals MIR
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I need to spend a bit more time this week preparing thunderbird 60 updates
<chrisccoulson> I've also got an embargoed issue
<chrisccoulson> I'll be spending time on https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=872726, hopefully uninterrupted
<ubottu> Debian bug 872726 in src:linux "linux: apparmor doesn't use proper audit event ids" [Normal,Open]
<chrisccoulson> and then we'll see what else :)
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<chrisccoulson> (no rust!)
<ratliff> yay!
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week
<ratliff> I'm just back from a sprint, so I have some catch up work to do and also some sprint outcome work
<ratliff> I have a bunch of internal work to do (see announcements)
<ratliff> msalvatore: you are up next
<msalvatore> Hi, everyone. I just joined the team last Monday, so most of my time has been spent on general on-boarding tasks and getting up to speed.
<msalvatore> I'm also working on resolving CVE-2018-10886 which is ZipSlip vulnerability in ant.
<ubottu> ant before version 1.9.12 unzip and untar targets allows the extraction of files outside the target directory. A crafted zip or tar file submitted to an Ant build could create or overwrite arbitrary files with the privileges of the user running Ant. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-10886)
<msalvatore> I'm hoping to close that out today or tomorrow and move onto the next task.
<msalvatore> That's it for me. You're up ebarretto.
<ratliff> we will catch up with ebarretto later
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<leosilva> hehe I had.
 * sbeattie welcomes msalvatore and ebarretto 
<tsimonq2> When did highlighted packages turn into Debian merges only? ;)
<leosilva> I'm in  community , finished mutt updates and will move to python-cryptography and so hunting.
 * tsimonq2 waves to msalvatore and ebarretto as well
<leosilva> that's it for me.
<ratliff> I'm so sorry leosilva
<leosilva> np
<ratliff> leosilva: thank you
<sarnold> tsimonq2: that was a few months ago I think, it seemed more likely to get traction than starting-from-scratch ..
<tsimonq2> sarnold: Ah.
<sbeattie> tsimonq2: we switched to that believing that it woul dbe easier to get into than "here's five random universe packages that have open cves"
<sarnold> tsimonq2: .. the old list also didn't take into account that oftentimes there's no upstream patches, so actually fixing those issues might have been harder; with the debian merge possibilities, there's at least some known patches :)
<sbeattie> that said, if you like rolling the dice to see what to work on, it's a simple script that generates it.
<tsimonq2> Makes sense. :)
<sbeattie> (it does make for an okay "I should re-triage 5 old cves today" helper)
<tsimonq2> hehe
<tsimonq2> Oh, one thing, while I am here.
<tsimonq2> QtWebEngine has embedded Chromium, and would be good to deliver the patch release via bionic-security.
<tsimonq2> We can discuss more in -hardened but expect that Soon.
<ratliff> tsimonq2: cool, let's discuss more in ubuntu-hardened
<tsimonq2> Cool. Nothing else from me :)
<ratliff> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva, amurray, msalvatore, ebarretto: Thanks! Thanks also to tsimonq2!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 23 16:56:41 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-23-16.31.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks ratliff!
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<jjohansen> tahnks ratliff
<leosilva> tks ratliff
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<msalvatore> thanks ratliff
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks!
<ebarretto> Hi everyone, I lost my turn ... had a minor power outage here ... this must be a sign of luck ... lol ... Today is my first day joining the Team, so I am still catching up! I am really excited to join the team and to work with the community. Feel free to ping me whenever you want!
<sarnold> ebarretto: what a way to start the new job, eh? :) hehe, welcome aboard
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-26
 * slangasek waves
 * infinity grunts
<philroche> \o
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 15:03:54 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)sru team meeting
<slangasek> sil2100 Odd_Bloke philroche cyphermox bdmurray rcj slangasek rbalint juliank mwhudson fginther doko xnox infinity tdaitx
<sil2100> Oh
<sil2100> WIN!
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Friday release of 4.15-based kernels, yaay!
<sil2100>   * Along with Andy and Stefan was on duty during the weekend in case of any critical kernel regressions
<sil2100> - 18.04.1 (helping out Adam a bit here and there):
<sil2100>   * Fixed-up download links for all 18.04.1 images on the isotracker
<sil2100>   * Prepped manifest diffs between release and .1 rc's
<sil2100>   * Investigated console-setup regression in ubiquity layout pre-selection, reverted last 2 versions
<sil2100>   * ISO sanity testing
<sil2100>   * Updating changelog
<sil2100> - 16.04.5:
<sil2100>   * Tested pl translations, released tested langpacks (only 3 got validated...)
<sil2100>   * Slight cleanup in xenial-proposed
<sil2100>   * Prepared debian-installer changes with Adam's cherry-pick, kernel bumps and hwe signed kernel handling fix
<sil2100>   * Prepared and checked manifest diffs between .4 and .5
<sil2100>   * Poked Jean-Baptiste about ubuntu xenial dailies not migrating from pending to current
<sil2100>   * Updating changelog
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Fixed newly built ubuntu-image snaps (due to voluptuous in pip being too 'new')
<sil2100>   * Merged all ADT fixes to trunk, preparing for 1.4 release
<sil2100> (done)
<rbalint> (i'm at debconf)
<rbalint>  * unattended-upgrades fixes
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke:
<Odd_Bloke> * Back from sprint, so mostly catching up
<Odd_Bloke> * Started rotation as vanguard for cloud image build system
<Odd_Bloke> * Worked on an error in our GCE testing
<Odd_Bloke> * Continued work on reintroducing the root tarball for bionic (LP: #1585233), but am waiting for the point release to be complete before proposing livecd-rootfs changes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1585233 in cloud-images "Provide -root.tar.xz for bionic and later" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585233
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> philroche:
<philroche> - Vacation all last week and Monday this week
<philroche> - Catching up on email and IRC
<philroche> - Reviewing candidate applications
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> yup just a sec
<cyphermox> - debugged shim PE32 header validation (cloud boot issues) (continued from last week)
<cyphermox> - MIR review: oath-toolkit, sortedcontainers
<cyphermox> - shim review: Neverware CloudReady
<cyphermox> - sponsored / SRU grub-installer fix for installation on NVMe with RAID1 (LP: #1771845)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771845 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Cosmic) "grub-installer raid handling code missing nvme from sed filter" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771845
<cyphermox> - grub: replace GRUB_HIDDEN_* variables with less confusing GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=hidden. (LP: #1258597)
<cyphermox> - ubiquity SB disable->configure update for cosmic + bionic SRU
<cyphermox> - ubiquity SRU: xenial d-i component update (LP: #1716999)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1258597 in grub2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Patch] Setting GRUB_TIMEOUT to a non-zero value when GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT is set is no longer supported." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258597
<cyphermox> - testing gnu-efi update to 3.0.8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1716999 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "installer creates rather small /boot partition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1716999
<cyphermox> - preparing, testing new shim release snapshot
<cyphermox> - on vacation next week
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> me?
<rcj> yup
<bdmurray> investigation into screen permissions bug LP: #1761997
<bdmurray> updated daisy / errors code for the Artful End of Life
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating staging and production versions of the Error Tracker (verified both good)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1761997 in screen (Ubuntu Bionic) "/var/run needs mode 777 in bionic" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761997
<bdmurray> updated meta-release(s) for the Artful End of Life
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for vte2.91 bug LP: #1780501
<bdmurray> wrote bug pattern, tested it, and consolidated dupes of LP: #1779237
<bdmurray> SRU review of didier's apport changes for Ubuntu 18.04 (merged them upstream too)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780501 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Traceback calling Vte.Terminal.feed_child()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1779237 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "package python3 3.6.5-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: installed python3 package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 4" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779237
<bdmurray> uploaded and verified bionic SRU for screen bug LP: #1761997
<bdmurray> SRU verification of vte2.91 bug LP: #1780501
<bdmurray> uploaded version of apport with greater timeouts for the above
<bdmurray> investigation into apport autopkgtest failures LP: #1780767
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780767 in apport (Ubuntu) "Some tests are flaky due to timeout" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780767
<bdmurray> SRU verification (failed) of apport change LP: #1778497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1778497 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "Add a remember option to whoopsie so that users can diminish crash interactions" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778497
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding switch to mojo spec env
<bdmurray> fixing of u-r-u bug LP: #1783589 and LP: #1783593
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783589 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-release-upgrader crashes if snapd is not installed" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783593 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "UI frozen and no information when the upgrader is installing snap packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783593
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> rcj:
<rcj> * developing new image publication for AWS us-gov-west-1 region
<rcj> (done)
<slangasek>  * sprinting in Montreal last week
<slangasek>  * out a half day yesterday minding a sick kid
<slangasek>  * assisting with various .1-targeted fixes
<slangasek>  * work on nvidia stack support in clouds
<slangasek>  * tracking signed kernels for clouds that both have custom kernels and will be supporting UEFI boot, as this is a prerequisite for changing our signature enforcement in GRUB
<slangasek>  * looking into incompatibility between docker and local resolvers (systemd-resolved)
<slangasek> (done)
<rbalint> * arriving to debconf
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrade fixes
<rbalint> * updating rax-nova-agent
<rbalint> * updating Ubuntu on Windows WSL app
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek> I guess rbalint saying 'at debconf' means 'not participating in meeting'
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> juliank:
<rbalint> slangasek, that would be a paradox :-)
<rbalint> juliank and doko are at debconf, too
<slangasek> yeah
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Build system vanguard
<fginther>   * Fixed issue with trusty ec2 publication
<fginther>   * Fixed issues with trusty maas builds
<fginther>   * Added retry logic for transient pip install failures
<fginther>   * Fixed build failure for a bionic cloud image
<fginther>   * Pushed buttons to make sure trusty and bionic releases were published
<fginther> * Created preview images for a cloud partner
<fginther> â done
<slangasek> doko_: are you at your computer?
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> * new mdadm upload
<xnox> * new btrfs-progs upload
<xnox> * continue to merge / fix systemd v239 regressions
<xnox> * .1 release image testing
<xnox> * debugging clocks with jfh
<xnox> * testing rax-nova upgrade, all good
<xnox> * done
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<slangasek> wait
<slangasek> infinity:
<slangasek> :)
<infinity> - 18.10:
<infinity>   * Got spl-linux off the &&^%!^ component-mismatches report.
<infinity>   * Fixed, unfixed, and fixed gooder console-setup.
<infinity>   * SCSI sync fixes for systemd in d-i.
<infinity> - 18.04.1:
<infinity>   * Fixed and unfixed console-setup, need to refix it again.
<infinity>   * Reviews, respins, reviews, respins.
<infinity>   * SRU tlp and mangle livecd-rootfs to kick linux-tools-aws off budgie ISO.
<infinity>   * SCSI sync fixes for systemd in d-i.
<infinity>   * Lots more point release crap.
<infinity> - 16.04.5:
<infinity>   * Review sil2100's d-i changes.
<infinity>   * SCSI sync fixes for systemd in d-i (this isn't at all repetitive).
<infinity> - Infrastructure:
<infinity>   * Fixed cdimage publishing code to publish manifests for server/live-server.
<infinity>   * Fixed cdimage publishing code to correctly handle live-server in stables.
<infinity>   * Fixed publish-image-set locally to prefer live-server over server, will commit after 16.04.5 (where the preference is the other way around).
<infinity>   * Hunted down why ppc64el livefs builds were exploding; Colin poked WeBops to fix PPC base image builders, and all should be well now.
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * tested & verified ca-certificates-java and lshw sru (LP: #1770553 and LP: #1752523)
<tdaitx>   - debian's lshw was updated, has a merge conflict, is still affected by the 'unkown' version and required the version to be fetched from somewhere else (LP: #1783783)
<tdaitx> * openjdk-7 security updates
<tdaitx>   - investigating a few nio tests that are failing (ongoing)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770553 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] backport ca-certificates-java from cosmic (20180516ubuntu1)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770553
<tdaitx> * openjdk-8 security updates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1752523 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "Ubuntu 18.04 [ P9 WSP DD2.2 ]: lshw version is displayed as "unknown" and -json option is not available in help message." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752523
<tdaitx>   - no regressions detected, will upload package to the security team
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783783 in lshw (Ubuntu) "Please merge lshw 02.18.85-0.1 (main) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783783
<tdaitx> * openjdk-10 security update
<tdaitx>   - tests were disabled, now working as expected
<tdaitx>   - need to build old version with test patches to compared results
<tdaitx> Other: german classes end up tomorrow - or according to bdmurray no more prision time
<tdaitx> (done)
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything here?
<bdmurray> bug 1783023
<ubottu> bug 1783023 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Software Updater is sometimes blank when there are ONLY phased updates and auto-removable kernels" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783023
<slangasek> oh there's a bug filed for that thing I saw
<bdmurray> yeah, my kid saw it too
<rbalint> in kernel removal i coded list them only when there are other updates but did not consider/test phased updates
<bdmurray> It seems worth fixing, so we should target it and card it - agreed?
<infinity> bdmurray: Yeah, that's definitely a poor uX. :P
<slangasek> +1
<bdmurray> rbalint: do you have an idea of where to fix it?
<rbalint> bdmurray, yes, i just have to check how phased pkgs are handled
<bdmurray> rbalint: Could you update the bug then?
<rbalint> bdmurray, sure
<bdmurray> Then next we have bug 1783328
<ubottu> bug 1783328 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "The option to select LTS notifications should be masked in non-LTS versions" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783328
<infinity> bdmurray: I'm unsure about that one.  I kinda feel like selecting that on a non-LTS means "upgrade me normally, but when I get to an LTS, stop".
<bdmurray> That too seems worth taking - aggree or disagree?
<slangasek> yeah, I agree w/ infinity
<infinity> bdmurray: But that's probably not how it works, nor is it documented. :P
<bdmurray> It doesn't work that way though if you select lts then it checks that meta-release file.
<infinity> bdmurray: Sure, but it could check both and be smart.
<bdmurray> Okay, so instead of masking it should do the right thing.
<slangasek> if we can figure out what the right thing is, yes :)
<infinity> It's the thing that isn't wrong.
<bdmurray> ;-)
<bdmurray> Something like if prompt=lts and you aren't running an lts then upgrade to the next release.
 * slangasek nods
<infinity> +1
<bdmurray> So with bug 1782507 I was wondering less about the bug itself but how we know if subiquity was the installer.
<ubottu> bug 1782507 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Mount location of root file system is not as expected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1782507
<bdmurray> Could we improve the apport package hooks so we know if it is subiquity or not?
<slangasek> +1
<infinity> bdmurray: We sure could.
<infinity> Next!
<bdmurray> That's it for this week.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<infinity> I saw rcj's cat's bits.
<tdaitx> regarding the installer, perhaps subiquity could keep the curtin cfg it generates (not sure if it does already)
<infinity> tdaitx: I think it does save some stuff like that somewhere.  mwhudson and bdmurray and I can take this up further $later.
<rcj> infinity: you leave her out of this.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 26 15:43:38 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-26-15.03.moin.txt
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> Thanks o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-23
 * didrocks can't attend the MIR meeting this week. Nothing from my side I haven't dealt with anyway.
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-25
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 25 15:01:23 2019 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<cyphermox> xnox mwhudson rbalint juliank infinity bdmurray waveform doko cyphermox sil2100 tdaitx vorlon
<bdmurray> xnox: is at debconf
<cyphermox> yep
<bdmurray> so rbalint
<rbalint> ha that was quick
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * many wsl-related discussions
<rbalint> published http://balintreczey.hu/blog/introducing-ubuntu-wsl-the-package-making-ubuntu-better-and-better-on-wsl/
<rbalint> prepared and verified SRUs for LP: #1836552
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1836552 in wslu (Ubuntu Disco) "[SRU] Please detect sound and X server running on Windows" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836552
<rbalint> * also for LP: #1837466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1837466 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Disco) "[SRU] Please make ubuntu-wsl recommend dbus-x11 " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837466
<rbalint> * merged systemd 242 from experimental, tests pending
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> juliank is at debconf
<bdmurray> infinity isn't in the channel
<bdmurray> (short week as I was helping a friend move)
<bdmurray> modifications to oops-repository to stop writing unicode to an ascii column
<bdmurray> started work on conversion of daisy to python-cassandra
<bdmurray> had oops-repository updated on the production Error Tracker
<bdmurray> removal of unnecessary data from Error Tracker db for EoL releases
<bdmurray> updated errors code to display Ubuntu 18.10 as EoL, submitted corresponding RT
<bdmurray> research into bug 1829805 and initramfs-tools regression
<ubottu> bug 1829805 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "update-initramfs -k all -c does not create initrd images anymore" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829805
<bdmurray> tested motd timers for bug 1637800 (fail)
<ubottu> bug 1637800 in base-files (Ubuntu Xenial) "add a motd script for news" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637800
<bdmurray> set Ubuntu 18.10 as unsupported in meta-release and m-r-proposed
<bdmurray> submitted MP fixing Traceback in the phased-updater
<bdmurray> additional testing of bug 1833610 - its the / partition that can be too small
<ubottu> bug 1833610 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "minimum root partition size recommendation is too small" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833610
<bdmurray> review of apport changes from OEM team
<bdmurray> sponsored, uploaded apport change for LP: #1837174
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1837174 in OEM Priority Project "auto compress if save filename ends with .gz" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837174
<bdmurray> unsubscribed foundations-bugs team from many unsupported packages
<bdmurray> special SRU review of linux-firmware-raspi2
<bdmurray> â done
 * juliank waves from DebConf!
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Debugged core boot screen; kernel team has now fixed modules in initrd (LP: #1837209)
<waveform> * Pi4 boot: updated u-boot package to 2019.07 and added rpi4 patches on top, testing on-going (on all supported pi releases)
<waveform> * Pi4 boot: removed device-tree suffix patches from u-boot (haven't been required for some time now)
<waveform> * Pi4 boot: testing pi4 kernel patches (minus u-boot currently); 1Gb barrier no longer appears an issue
<waveform> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1837209 in linux-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "Splash screen fails to display on recent pi core18 images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837209
<cyphermox> doko:
<cyphermox> no doko?
<juliank> debconf doko
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> off Monday, Tuesday
<cyphermox> review prepared shim for next upload
<cyphermox> investigating writable files in /etc on core
<cyphermox> debugging chainloader issues with bootctl (return from last week)
<cyphermox> spec draft for netplan NetworkManager read/write plugin
<cyphermox> (done)
<cyphermox> sil2100:
<sil2100> uh
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel reviews
<sil2100> - Investigating broken jenkins core18 rebuild jobs - manually kicked and promoted a new core18 to beta
<sil2100>   * Jobs are *again* disabled, poking CPC about it
<sil2100> - Working on packaging the sd-build-blobs for the dragonboard
<sil2100>   * Prepared the new package, battled uscan to handle the strange upstream releases page
<sil2100>   * Investigating how this is used in the gadget
<sil2100> - Fixed the ADT regression informing, waiting for review
<sil2100> - Poked around regarding the pi-kernel regression for core18 pi boot-splash
<sil2100> - Some thinking about ubuntu-image classic image boot partition upgrades
<sil2100>   * Worked a bit on a different approach, poked Steve for input
<sil2100> - Disabled pi2 and cm3 core18 image builds
<sil2100> - Prepared new language-packs for 18.04.3, now promoted those that got tested
<sil2100>   * Sanity-tested the -pl ones
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> tdaitx: ?
<sil2100> tdaitx: here?
<gaughen> tdaitx is at debconf
<sil2100> Ah, so vorlon!
<vorlon>  * long week, worked all 5 days since last meeting
<vorlon>  * interviewing candidates for manager opening
<vorlon>  * prep w/ team for Toronto sprint
<vorlon>  * nudging packages through the gauntlet for -proposed
<vorlon>  * released new subiquity to stable for 18.04.3
<vorlon>  * NEW review of mysql-8.0, transition begins
<vorlon> (done)
<cyphermox> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1837068
<ubottu> bug 1837068 in valgrind (Ubuntu) "libssh armhf autopkgtest failure on valgrind unhandled instruction: 0xEBAD 0x1CCA" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837068
<bdmurray> vorlon: should we card this?
<vorlon> bdmurray: probably not
<bdmurray> sil2100: did you look into bug 1833758?
<ubottu> bug 1833758 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvm2: vgcfgbackup in postinst takes several minutes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833758
<vorlon> bdmurray: it looks like this changed in libssl, not in libssh or in valgrind, so it should probably just be marked as a badtest by the release team
<bdmurray> vorlon: okay
<sil2100> bdmurray: I'm ashamed to say that I did not, once again I have completely forgot about it
<sil2100> I am a terrible mentee...
<sil2100> I assigned myself to it now
<bdmurray> sil2100: I'm gonna find a new one
<gaughen> bdmurray, vorlon if we're not going to take this item, we should add a comment
<gaughen> bdmurray, vorlon who's going to add a comment?
<gaughen> and are we dropping the tag?
<vorlon> yes, the tag should be dropped
<gaughen> bdmurray, you going to do that? and add a statement as to why?
<vorlon> done
<bdmurray> gaughen: No because its already been done. ;-)
<gaughen> bdmurray, I saw - slangasek did it!
<gaughen> next
<bdmurray> that's all the High and Undecided for rls-ee-incoming
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1833476 is Undecided
<ubottu> bug 1833476 in nginx (Ubuntu) "libssl1.1 version 1.1.1-1ubuntu2.1~18.04.2 breaks nginx ssl tests" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833476
<vorlon> should be targeted to bionic, since it's an SRU regression
<vorlon> it's still incomplete so I'm not sure we should card it
<bdmurray> that seems reasonable
<bdmurray> that covers the bugs I guess
<bdmurray> NGIÐ¸X
<vorlon> cyphermox: ?
<cyphermox> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<cyphermox> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<gaughen> didrocks, stop taking to cyphermox - he's trying to run this meeting!
<cyphermox> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for next meeting
<cyphermox> woops
<gaughen> :-)
<didrocks> gaughen: ;)
<rbalint> systemd in ppa:rbalint/scratch3, waiting for tests to finish
<gaughen> that's a long list
<bdmurray> NGIá´X
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> aptdaemon still needs someone to take it
<gaughen> aptdaemon - juliank were you going to peek at that?
<vorlon> aptdaemon autopkgtests need fixing for new lintian
<juliank> oh ok
<gaughen> juliank, you'll take it? I'll create a card for you in case it gets lost in debconf fun
<gaughen> rbalint, you've got systemd right?
<juliank> Where is that?
<rbalint> gaughen, yes
<juliank> that's the srus?
<rbalint> i also take libnfs
<gaughen> rbalint, you don't need that carded do you?
<vorlon> juliank: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<gaughen> thank you rbalint
<gaughen> what about python3.7?
<juliank> oh, I was looking at disco somehow
<juliank> bad browser
<juliank> will fix it!
<gaughen> thank you juliank
<gaughen> I'll see about mwhudson taking a peek at python3.7 unless someone else is already digging
 * gaughen looks at doko
<gaughen> anything else on the list worth looking iat?
<vorlon> everything else needs looking at
<vorlon> valgrind vs libnfs on s390x
<vorlon> volunteer?
<vorlon> oh rbalint said he's taking
<vorlon> imagemagick is blocked on mir
<vorlon> debhelper is blocked on a flaky test that needs retry
<bdmurray> mir or MIR?
<rbalint> MiR
<vorlon> mÄ±r
<sil2100> ;p
<vorlon> nginx
<vorlon> devscripts, anyone want to look at the ftbfs?
<rbalint> don't nginx it :o)
<sil2100> I can
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> I want to
<vorlon> thanks
<vorlon> ncurses, someone needs to see why it's breaking random pythons
<sil2100> ...so maybe ncurses for me?
<sil2100> ;)
<vorlon> sil2100: enjoy
<vorlon> and I'll take libjson-xs-perl
<vorlon> I believe that's all we need to dole out today
<cyphermox> ok
 * sil2100 needs to write it down to actually look at it tomorrow
<cyphermox> so; I will chair next week as well
<gaughen> sil2100, I carded it
<gaughen> sil2100, with your face and it's in committed
<sil2100> gaughen: thank you!
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<vorlon> nothing for me
<bdmurray> I'm taking off early tomorrow to go to my summer home
<gaughen> rbalint is going to chair?
<gaughen> bdmurray, you mean mt st helens?
<rbalint> ok, maybe from my summer home :-)
<gaughen> there you go cyphermox ^^ the new chair you've always wanted
<bdmurray> gaughen: indeed, mt hood was alright but I gotta get back to my baby
<bdmurray> cyphermox: end meeting?
<bdmurray> gaughen: and its mount st helens
<cyphermox> I thought I was going to chair
<cyphermox> but sure, rbalint if you want to
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 25 15:50:29 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-07-25-15.01.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks all
<sil2100> cyphermox: thanks o/
<rbalint> o/
<xnox> cyphermox:  i got so lucky with debconf!!!!!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-26
<sk11p3r> Hi!
<sk11p3r> This channel is to talk about Ubuntu generaly?
<sarnold> it's normally used only for specific meetings
<sarnold> people tend to ignore it unless there's a meeting going on that they're interested in
<sarnold> #ubuntu gets a lot more traffic
<sk11p3r> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-21
<doko> didrocks, ddstreet, jamespage: no cpaelzer here ... MIR meeting
<ddstreet> o/
<sarnold> good morning
 * ddstreet getting coffee
<jamespage> o/
<doko> who runs the meeting?
 * didrocks just back from holidays, so a little bit out of sync
<sarnold> alright, I can give this a go..
<sarnold> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 21 14:39:30 2020 UTC.  The chair is sarnold. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<sarnold> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sarnold> I didn't see any previous action items in /lastlog #action -- was there anything else 'assigned' without the #action marker?
<sarnold> okay, lets assume no, and move on
<sarnold> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<sarnold> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<sarnold> I don't recall the python-pure-sasl, pykerberos, python-mypy-extensions, python-typing-extensions, or the swarm of octavia packages
<sarnold> octavia packages appear to have bugs filed, some a few hours ago
<doko> I'll look at python-*-extensions
<jamespage> I would volunteer for the octavia packages, but that's a bit like checking your own work (as that's come from my team)
<doko> as long as you didn't package that yourself
<jamespage> I did not
<jamespage> if that's ok with others than I'm happy todo the first set of reviews - it will need a security team review
<jamespage> as well
<didrocks> sounds good to me
<sarnold> sounds good, thanks
<jamespage> ok
<sarnold> do you know about the kazoo deps? I believe they were added in may so perhaps they're not as new as I thought, I just don't spot the names in /lastlog
<jamespage> I do and I'm fixing that now to drop them
<jamespage> its been a long standing thing I've struggled to get time to focus on
<jamespage> tl;dr its not required for runtime
<sarnold> ah, good news :)
<sarnold> I'm familiar with the struggle
<sarnold> I think that's the -proposed handled..
<sarnold> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<didrocks> (sorry, need to fetch my kid, back in 20 min in you need anything from me)
<sarnold> I think the only new thing on this svg is the octavia, so..
<jamespage> by didrocks
<sarnold> bye didrocks
<sarnold> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<sarnold> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<sarnold> I have to admit I know nothing about the oem-* packages
<Laney> I don't think you need to be subscribed to those
<sarnold> given the 'exceptions' mentinoed in a handful of the bug reports, I suspect there's nothing there
<sarnold> s/nothing there/nothing for us to do there/
<sarnold> which I think means..
<sarnold> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<sarnold> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<sarnold> nothing recent here, I suspect there's nothing for us to do here today, as well
<sarnold> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<sarnold> I wasn't prepared for a clever countdown, so ..
<sarnold> 3..
<sarnold> 2..
<sarnold> 1..
<sarnold> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 15:02:32 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-21-14.39.moin.txt
<ddstreet> o/
<ddstreet> bye all
<sarnold> ersatzcpaelzer out :)
<sarnold> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-23
<kalidollar> hi
<kalidollar> i new in irc
<sarnold> welcome kalidollar, most folks ignore this channel unless thre's an actively scheduled meeting going on
<kalidollar> i get it
<sarnold> well, most people ignore most channels unless someone says something :) heh
<sarnold> but that goes extra for this channel
<kalidollar> ok ok
<kalidollar> i do not much english
<sarnold> that's fine
<kalidollar> somethimes with the translator... lol
<kalidollar> i don t see channels in spanish
<sarnold> they will usually have -es in the name, eg #ubuntu-es
<sarnold> but non-english channels are often a lot quieter :(
<kalidollar> Ah ok
<sarnold> this might help you find other spanish speakers https://netsplit.de/channels/?chat=%5C-es
<sarnold> but you can of course use english, people on irc are very accustomed to english as a second language
<kalidollar> thanks for your help
<sarnold> sure thing, have fun :)
<kalidollar> :)
<slyon> o/
<sil2100> o/
<juliank> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 23 15:01:23 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> juliank tdaitx slyon sil2100 infinity xnox vorlon bdmurray mwhudson doko rbalint waveform
<bdmurray> juliank: ?
<juliank> I did grub and os-prober stuff
<juliank> sponsored rpi-eeprom
<juliank> and I think that's it
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 and openjdk-8 security updates
<tdaitx>   - packaged & uploaded openjdk-11 and openjdk-8 to the security team
<tdaitx>   - openjdk-8 has a regression, investigated, rebuilding with new patch
<tdaitx> * defining static baseline for jck
<tdaitx> (done)
<slyon> - I will be out tomorrow
<slyon> - Resolved libzstd migration
<slyon>   * Removed badger/armhf from the archive, 32bit broken upstream, bug #1884753
<slyon>   * Re-triggerd badger tests on 64bit architectures
<slyon>   * Re-triggerd rsync tests with newer 3.2.1 version
<slyon> - SRU verification for ubuntu-release-upgrader
<slyon>   * re python-is-python2, bug #1875523
<ubottu> bug 1884753 in badger (Ubuntu) "Please remove badger/armhf binaries" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884753
<ubottu> bug 1875523 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "I can't upgrade the ubuntu to 20.04 by terminal. Everytime I do it, a message appear saying that it is not possible do the upgrade." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875523
<slyon> === Netplan ===
<slyon> - Merged final feature PR#153 for cleanup of OVS interfaces
<slyon> - Continued working on Wireguard PR#113
<slyon>   * Formatting, Refactoring, NM support
<slyon> - Reviewed community PR#89, adding support for IP interface labels
<slyon> - Discussions around NetworkManager plugin
<slyon> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - 20.04.1 and 18.04.5:
<sil2100>   * Release related meetings
<sil2100>   * Staged base-files
<sil2100>   * Sponsored required linux-firmware-raspi2 packages
<sil2100>   * Tweaked and discussed rpi-eeprom inclusion
<sil2100>   * Released focal langpack updates
<sil2100>   * Accepted many OEM meta packages, promoted them to main
<sil2100>   * Selectively accepting SRUs for .1 to be copied into -updates
<sil2100>   * Created .1 milestone
<sil2100>   * Other stuff
<bdmurray> slyon: I forget did you test an upgrade with nothing special?
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Reviewed latest OVS configuration cleanup branch, +1'ed, merged
<sil2100>   * Fixed failing unit tests on LP builders
<sil2100>   * Discussed ways to approach the non-tagged OVS config cleanup
<sil2100>   * Refreshed OVS test packages for James, sent e-mail
<sil2100>   * Addressed SR-IOV improvement changes, merged, tested on hardware
<sil2100>   * Working on prepping a PR for the OVS stuff
<sil2100> - Verified livecd-rootfs changes for dangerous-<channel> UC20 image builds
<sil2100> - Appliance images:
<sil2100>   * Pushed and deployed appliance related ubuntu-cdimage changes
<sil2100>   * Did a few test builds, noticed issues, prepared fixes
<sil2100>   * Built first batch of cdimage-built appliance images
<sil2100> - AA related package removals
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> sil2100:  when do you think we will have 20.04.1 candidatees?
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> working on snap-preseed in livecd-rootfs
<xnox> working on next stable release of core18
<sil2100> xnox: I wanted to do first test candidates today
<xnox> working on grub updates
<xnox> ghc migrated - hooray
<xnox> started new ghc transition - boooooo
<xnox> hopefully that one will migrate soon.
<xnox> done
<xnox> sil2100:  awesome
<sil2100> Still pushing pushing stufffff
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<slyon> bdmurray: I will test with a plain bionic multipass container and comment on the LP bug.
<vorlon> bdmurray: skip me for now?
<bdmurray> well then its me!
<bdmurray> many special SRU review requests
<bdmurray> updated daisy code for 19.10 EoL, deployed code to production Error Tracker
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files for 19.10 EoL
<bdmurray> discovered / documented a test case for LP: #1884480
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for LP: #1882069, uploaded Focal SRU for it
<bdmurray> merged and uploaded slyon's fix to Focal and Groovy for LP: #1875523
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884480 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "No GUI error message when upgrade to 20.04 does not work due to outdated packages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884480
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for LP: #1875107, verified that the SRU works
<bdmurray> SRU verified the fix for LP: #1882069
<bdmurray> investigation into proposed-migration metric being 0 submitted britney1 MP fixing it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1882069 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "DistUpgradeController.py key 'devRelease' not set correctly" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1875523 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "I can't upgrade the ubuntu to 20.04 by terminal. Everytime I do it, a message appear saying that it is not possible do the upgrade." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875523
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1875107 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "unable to upgrade with lubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop installed due to xscreensaver" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875107
<bdmurray> updated proposed migration data KPI to have a dry-run option
<bdmurray> finished ESM for Apps apt hook PR for ua client (it was merged)
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko> - GCC 10.2 release
<doko> - python 3.9 fixes
<doko> - built SRU candidates for gcc-9, waiting until test rebuilds are possible again
<doko> - openjdk -13, -14, -15 uploads, -13 and 14 SRUs for focal
<doko> - jtharness update, jtreg PPA backport, should be SRUed as well
<doko> - elfutils, packaged new upstream
<doko> - regular MIR and AA work
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon: ready?
<vorlon> yah
<vorlon>  * short week, was out Tuesday
<vorlon>  * grub work
<vorlon>  * netplan schema reviews
<vorlon>  * +1 maintenance yesterday/today (more ghc, always more ghc)
<vorlon> (done)
<rbalint> * +1 maintenance
<rbalint> * reviewed raspberrypi-userland for sponsoring but had a few observations to fix
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: unattended-upgrades 2.5
<rbalint> * prepared unattended-upgrades SRU for focal fixing LP: #1877769 and LP: #1883082
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877769 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Focal) "[SRU] Rewinding cache triggers obsolete adjustments consuming a lot of CPU" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877769
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883082 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Focal) "Crash when using Package-Whitelist-Strict" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883082
<rbalint> * some additional unattended-upgrades bug gardening
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Fixed issue in pending raspberrypi-userland (inclusion of EGL/GL headers clashing with libegl-dev) (LP: #1883111)
<waveform> * Still working on excising the EGL/GL headers completely / d/copyright issues
<waveform> * Addressed review of rpi-eeprom (LP: #1884748), but ...
<waveform> * Pending issue with dependency on raspberrypi-userland (vcgencmd for extracting current boot configuration from firmware)
<waveform> * Bumped firmware in linux-firmware-raspi2 for 4B rev 1.4 (LP: #1886581)
<waveform> * Bumped wifi and bluetooth firmwares in linux-firmware-raspi2 to latest versions (LP: #1888211), and converted package to use multi-upstream tarballs instead of base64 patch blobs
<waveform> * Tested linux-firmware-raspi2 in all configurations on focal release
<waveform> * Testing linux-firmware-raspi2 on bionic for point release & core18
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883111 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] raspberrypi-userland" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883111
<waveform> * Worked on removal of u-boot from classic (postinst transition in flash-kernel and adjustment of custom "pi" method in flash-kernel to avoid u-boot tools)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884748 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] rpi-eeprom" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884748
<waveform> * Testing release upgrade from bionic to focal on pi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1886581 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Ubuntu 18.04 64-bit RasPi 3 and 4 image fails to boot on RasPi 4B" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886581
<waveform> * Worked on "new stuff"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1888211 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu Focal) "Merge BCM43430 rev 94 and BCM43456 wifi firmware from raspbian, update to latest firmware" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888211
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> any more questions on status?
<xnox> all good.
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1884480
<ubottu> bug 1884480 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "No GUI error message when upgrade to 20.04 does not work due to outdated packages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884480
<bdmurray> So the description is pretty accurate
<bdmurray> This has been around for quite some time but seems like it would be worth fixing
<bdmurray> I guess the message wouldn't be translated though.
<bdmurray> vorlon: Do you have an opinion on carding / priority of this?
<vorlon> bdmurray: I think we have a full plate and I wouldn't want to commit to it for groovy
<bdmurray> bug 1888352
<ubottu> bug 1888352 in OEM Priority Project "use builtin dump_acpi_tables.py in hookutils" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888352
<bdmurray> lets just card it and merge it
<mclemenceau> Ok!
<bdmurray> bug 1887664
<ubottu> bug 1887664 in python-sqlalchemy-utils (Ubuntu) "python_dateutil get_zonefile_instance functionality is broken without upstream tarball" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1887664
<bdmurray> Is anybody familiar with python-dateutil?
<waveform> vaguely
<waveform> (I use it in a few projects)
<waveform> yeah, I can take a look at that one
<bdmurray> Okay, I don't think its a huge priority but seems rather easy to sort
<mclemenceau> bdmurray: want me to card this?
<bdmurray> mclemenceau: please
<mclemenceau> k
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 1870813
<ubottu> bug 1870813 in scilab (Ubuntu) "Scilab does not start on focal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870813
<bdmurray> timo targetted this to focal already
<bdmurray> maybe we should see if that means he is planning to SRU it
<tdaitx> I can take a look at it next week
<bdmurray> tdaitx: okay, lets card it then
<mclemenceau> done
<tdaitx> thanks
<bdmurray> that's all the new stuff
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<juliank> I forgot to look at xz-utils
<vorlon> vim is still at the top, is still assigned to me; it's a bug that requires a lot of effort to reproduce on riscv64
<vorlon> if anyone wanted to steal this one from me, that might not be a bad idea
<vorlon> if no one's volunteering, I'll keep it
<vorlon> juliank: are you good to take xz-utils this week?
<juliank> It's only one day left, not sure
<juliank> (I'm out next week)
<juliank> If not, I can handover tomorrow
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> libzstd is a candidate and looks to me like it actually just migrated
<slyon> I fixed that today
<vorlon> build-essential is down to two packages with blocking autopkgtests... I was working on this last week, I'll follow through
<vorlon> waveform: python-tz was assigned to you last week, are you going to have time for it this week?
<vorlon> (python-oops binary removal)
<waveform> vorlon, was fairly sure I did a patch for that ... just checking ...
<bdmurray> mpfr4 / python-gmpy2 is an upstream test failure
<vorlon> libsereal-decoder-perl we punted last week to see if Debian would fix it, it's still broken, someone should take this now
<waveform> vorlon, yup - bug 1887828 just needs sponsorship
<ubottu> bug 1887828 in oops (Ubuntu) "Drop Python 2 support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1887828
<vorlon> waveform: ok, your responsibility to secure a sponsor then, don't just wait for the ubuntu-sponsors queue :)
<waveform> vorlon, ok
<vorlon> rbalint: can you take libsereal-decoder-perl and friends?
<rbalint> vorlon,sure
<vorlon> thanks
<rbalint> vorlon, which friends :-)
<doko> python-gmpy2 is scheduled for removal in Debian, so better remove it
<vorlon> doko: do you want to take this one and follow through then?
<doko> vorlon: ok
<bdmurray> doko: why is that?
<vorlon> then there's a stack of new perl packages that seem to all be triggering lintian regressions, libtext-levenshteinxs-perl libtext-xslate-perl libtime-moment-perl; these should be taken as a group
<vorlon> tdaitx: could you look at these?
<vorlon> python-werkzeug
<vorlon> xnox: ^^ can you take python-werkzeug?
<xnox> bdmurray:  https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/python-gmpy2 top of the page -> Marked for autoremoval on 27 August: #965001 -> strange version 2.1.0 beta4 fails tests with mpfr4 4.1.0
<xnox> vorlon:  yes.
<tdaitx> vorlon: yes
<xnox> bdmurray:  so ftbfs bug in debian, that doko filed ;-)
<vorlon> libsemanage is a missing build on i386, I'll take
<doko> no, lintian got new deps, I just promoted all the new deps, and subscribed foundations. better to re-run all the stuff with new lintian
<vorlon> logilab-common requires an MIR
<doko> juliank: https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-groovy/groovy/amd64/a/aptdaemon/20200722_110947_0c111@/log.gz
<vorlon> bdmurray: would you care to MIR logilab-common?
<vorlon> oh or maybe slyon
<slyon> I can do it!
<vorlon> thanks
<doko> write a MIR ...
<vorlon> I'll also take the libselinux stuff in connection with libsemanage
<juliank> doko: ignore and move on
<juliank> doko: or retry
<rbalint> i'm on glibc but i'm merging it, too
<xnox> Odd_Bloke:  i think to fix werkzeug I need to fix things in oddoo which now fails to start in groovy.
<doko> juliank: please convince the release team, not me
<juliank> doko: it's a 50/50 chance it passes
<juliank> I think I did
<vorlon> aptdaemon/dbus-python/pygobject - who has capacity for this?
<juliank> but maybe it got reverted again?
<juliank> aptdaemon/armhf should still be force-badtest
<juliank> It times out 50% of the time, it's not useful to block on
<vorlon> ok then I'll take care of hinting that
<juliank> I've said that the past few times, and I'm pretty sure we had badtested it?
<vorlon> I don't see such a hint for armhf currently
<vorlon> pygments vs mercurial - bdmurray?
<juliank> Oh doko one was amd64
<juliank> amd64 passes much more reliably and should be retriggered
<juliank> (2 fails and too many to count passes)
<juliank> I retriggered that one
<bdmurray> vorlon: sure
<vorlon> pyasn1 vs fdroidserver - doko?
<vorlon> gpgme1.0 vs libpod - waveform ?
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader is a really a pycodestyle issue and I'll take that
<waveform> vorlon, ok
<vorlon> re2 is a library transition, I'll dig into this
<vorlon> autodep8 - xnox?
<vorlon> and bdmurray took u-r-u, so that's the list
<doko> I'll look at pyasn
<vorlon> thanks
<xnox> vorlon:  sure.
<vorlon> ah and re2 is going to be stalled behind a nodejs transition, yummy
<vorlon> bdmurray: that's the list, back over to you
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> I heard juliank is going to be out next week
<juliank> I am!
<slyon> I am out tomorrow.
<juliank> also my phone discharged, I thought I had it plugged into the charger, but it was loose :/
<juliank> I guess we can endmeetign here
 * juliank has other irc tabs to watch
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 23 15:51:16 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-23-15.01.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<Odd_Bloke> xnox: Don't know anything about this Odoo thing *sticks fingers in ears* lalalalala
<xnox> bdmurray:  also this:
<xnox>  syncpackage python-gmpy2
<xnox> Blacklist Comments:
<xnox>   python-gmpy2 2.1.0~b4-1 in sid (same version already has published
<xnox>   binaries in the destination archive)   -- janitor  Thu, 23 Jul 2020
<xnox>   15:44:24 +0000
<xnox> bdmurray:  something odd happened to python-gmpy2
<bdmurray> xnox: okay, I'm just trying to understand processes here
<bdmurray> xnox: Also I had dug into some armhf failures earlier https://github.com/aleaxit/gmpy/issues/278
