#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-24
<hux_> my intel card not picked up. Worked with mint
<hux_> Hello
<hux_> can someone help with intel drivers please?
<hux_> Does anyone respond in this channel? I've asked questions since installing Ocelot w/o anyone answering.
<hux_> Easy enough questions. So someone should know
<ali1234> it's 1AM. everyone is sleeping
<hux_> lol
<hux_> I'm on night shift. Give 'em a nudge for me
<ali1234> try #ubuntu
<ali1234> it's global
<hux_> lol It's a quagmire
<ali1234> what card is it?
<hux_> intel mobile 845 I think
<ali1234> wifi?
<ali1234> i845 is a motherboard chipset
<hux_> mobile atm or wifi usually
<ali1234> it's some weird combo card?
<hux_> It worked fine with mint. I'm just not sure of my way round unity yet. Used to synaptic to check
<ali1234> what makes you think it is not "picked up"
<hux_> Even tho under mint it didn't show up unser additional drivers
<hux_>  No wobbly windows lol
<ali1234> i'm still not clear on what it is
<ali1234> so it's graphics driver?
<hux_> Can I install synaptic?
<ali1234> yes
<hux_> yea
<ali1234> ubuntu doesn't have wobbly windows any more
<hux_> I've added CSSM
<hux_> I was going to fix the launcher bar to not autohide but it won't let me
<ali1234> echo $DESKTOP_SESSION
<ali1234> what does it say?
<hux_> in terminal?
<ali1234> yes
<hux_>  'echo $DESKTOP_SESSION' = no response
<ali1234> try again
<hux_> is that the command 'echo $DESKTOP_SESSION' ?
<ali1234> yes
<hux_> UBUNTU
<hux_> *ubuntu
<hux_> is that the 3D desktop
<ali1234> yes
<hux_> hm wonder why I can't get autohide to stay off then or turn on wobbly windows
<ali1234> probably it switched to fallback mode
<hux_> how can I tell?
<ali1234> i don't know
<ali1234> is the lancher transparent?
<hux_> np thanks al11234
<hux_> ali1234,
<hux_> I'll get a que ticket for #ubuntu lol
<ali1234> if it says ubuntu, that means you are running unity 3d
<ali1234> that means your graphics driver works correctly
<ali1234> and there's no reason why it wouldn't, since it is intel
<hux_> ali1234,  Got wobbly windows on and autohide off :)
<ali1234> cool
<hux_> thanx 4 ur help :)
<hux_> I just had to go back into cssm settings again
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> AlanBell: They were talking about this on the news this morning, I wondered if there was anything that could be used/linked into an ubuntu hour somewhere http://raceonline2012.org/giveanhour (With it being raceonline, you may have already picked up on it)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Survey Results - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/24/ubuntu-community-survey-results/
<freakyclown> is there a nice simple gui way to set the hdd in a lappy running 11.10 to spin down?
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers has just flicked through Jonos survey results
<daubers> The graph on page 7 is a bit worrying
<DJones> daubers: Have you got a link for the graph, I missed the link on twitter
<DJones> sorry, link for the survey
<AlanBell> freakyclown: tinker with the hdparm options -S and -B
<AlanBell> I love the hdparm man page
<freakyclown> yeah i saw that as an option - wondered if there was a funky built in option yet
<AlanBell> "VERY  DANGEROUS,  DON'T  EVEN THINK ABOUT USING IT."
<freakyclown> yeah ;)
<AlanBell> "This is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS  and will  very  likely  cause massive loss of data.  DO NOT USE THIS COMMAND.
<AlanBell> stuff you really want to see in a man page :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: at least it's honest
<AlanBell> freakyclown: there probably should be a simple GUI for it that doesn't expose the really scary options
<freakyclown> AlanBell: i can wait while you make one kthnx
<freakyclown> :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> sudo hdparm -S1 -B1 /dev/sda
<freakyclown> what about noflushd?
<AlanBell> that should basically shut it down every 5 seconds of doing nothing, you can change the numbers to be less agressive
<AlanBell> freakyclown: noflushd doesn't like ext3
<AlanBell> or other journaling filesystems
<freakyclown> k
<AlanBell> not sure how much it really helps on your boot drive anyway
<freakyclown> me either
<AlanBell> I use the hdparm spindown on a disk mounted on a server that does backups
<freakyclown> so why S1 and B1?
<freakyclown> as in why those numbers?
<AlanBell> the server (little home server) boots from an SD card and is no moving parts most of the day, but at night the HDD spins up
<AlanBell> S1 means 5 seconds S2 is 10 seconds and bigger numbers mean longer time but it isn't in constant increments
<AlanBell> I found S did nothing at all unless B was activated which is the general power management setting
<AlanBell> B sets the APM_level
<AlanBell> S1 is probably too agressive, the thing will be constantly spinning up and down
<AlanBell> but it means you don't have long to wait to hear it working
<MartijnVdS> Isn't there a "put my disk to sleep" option in the power management menu?
<MartijnVdS> because there used to be
<AlanBell> can't see one
<MartijnVdS> another "feature" removed for Gnome 3
<freakyclown> well it powered down - then almost immediatly back up
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: it spins back up every time you access the disk, of course
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: that's why the 5-second delay is too short -- it'll damage the disk a lot by constantly spinning up/down
<freakyclown> yeah im thinking 5seconds is too short too ;)
<MartijnVdS> Just keeping it on the default setting should be fine -- afaik the laptop-scripts put the disk in sleep-after-a-while mode if you unplug
<freakyclown> ah i see what keeps waking it up - logging on pidgin bugger :(
<AlanBell> yeah, that kind of thing goes on all the time
<freakyclown> utterly wank as i cant disable logging on work rooms
<AlanBell> there is always something that wants to write somewhere
<freakyclown> thats what i thought the noflushd thing solved
<AlanBell> log to something solid state
<AlanBell> sd card or USB
<freakyclown> i cant it has to be a hardware encrypted drive
<AlanBell> ah, ok
<AlanBell> maybe a non-journalled partition
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: replace the disk with an SSD - those do hardware crypto
<MartijnVdS> they also don't spin up/down ever ;)
<freakyclown> does anyone know that guy? ^tmb?
<freakyclown> i work with a tmb!
<AlanBell> context?
<DJones> freakyclown: whois says "Timothy Miles-Board"
<freakyclown> AlanBell: rofl NO hate those guys
<vauxhall> Has anyone had any trouble booting ubuntu 11.10 lately?
<freakyclown> vauxhall: yes since i installed it ;)
<vauxhall> freakyclown: ^^ ...I've installed it as well, but sometimes it freezes during boot..
<vauxhall> here's how i've set it up...i've installed ubuntu in an 80Gig partition on my second hard-drive...
<freakyclown> http://thegreyhats.blogspot.com/
<vauxhall> and grub is installed on my first(primary) harddrive..
<freakyclown> see if it falls into any of those issues
<vauxhall> freakyclown: nope
<vauxhall> freakyclown: its just that it gets to grub..and i get a purple screen after that.
<bigcalm> Morning awake things :)
<DJones> Its monday, we're not awake
<MartijnVdS> awhatnow?
<bigcalm> Well, I was hoping
<JamesTait> Happy morning, everyone! :D
<daubers> DJones: Sorry, had a meeting http://t.co/sdyJKAnO :)
<DJones> daubers: No worries, mr google found it for
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<DJones> Fred0: /join #defocus
<DJones> Grr
 * bigcalm blurs DJones
<popey> Good morning.
<bigcalm> Ho popey
<DJones> bigcalm: I'm blurred enough today
<MartijnVdS> DJones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIEsmGzo2UE
<DJones> Ugh, Never liked them
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ah, you're from the Oasis camp? :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Nope, don't like them either :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I have a wierd & varied musical taste, ranges from Old Lady Driver, Slayer, Nick Cave up to opera & classical :) But just quite picking about what gets my attention
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I like lots of different kinds of music too, but somehow my CD shelves fill up with singer/songwriters (both male and female) :)
<MartijnVdS> Though I've decided this is a Turin Brakes morning :)
<gordonjcp> morning
<gordonjcp> what's the Unity equivalent of the Gnome "Places" menu?
<gordonjcp> or rather, how do I mount a remote SMB share without resorting to the command-line?
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: connect to, in nautillus's file menu.
<gordonjcp> <baffled>
<gordonjcp> the what?
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: nautilus is your gui file manager, if you go into its file menu, you will see a connect to function.
<gordonjcp> I ran nautilus but it just gave me a window with some squares
<gordonjcp> ah, hang on, Mac menu
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: you will see uits function menu below its windows controls.
<brobostigon> ah, sorry, global menu, yes.
<gordonjcp> I'm giving Ubuntu a shot for a week *without* fixing the problems
<brobostigon> ah.
<gordonjcp> so far I've found the window buttons being on the wrong side to be merely annoying in a "wash the windows at every junction" way
<gordonjcp> and the Mac menu to be at best horribly confusing and at worst totally unusable
<gordonjcp> and the mac dock thing on the left with all the squares isn't exactly fun either
<brobostigon> the global menu, yes, i have heard several such issues.
 * MartijnVdS grabs a bunch of torches and pitchforks, throws a few to gordonjcp and brobostigon 
<gordonjcp> if I wanted to use OSX I'd use OSX
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :(
<gordonjcp> I don't want to use OSX because it's a badly-designed pile of weirdness
<gordonjcp> turning it through 90 degrees doesn't help
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Well, you need those before marching to the Canonical HQ right?
<shauno> I wouldn't mind the global menu, if the autohide thing was an option.  pretending it's not there is aweful for muscle-memory
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: need what?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: torches and pitchforks
<nymwar> I don't like the hidden global menu.  Too much mouse dragging and confusion when there are multiple windows.  Currently I'm using Gnome shell.
<oimon> thinking of getting a front porch and my neighbours porch encroaches onto my property by about 6 inches where i would like to place my porch...what to do i wonder
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no, not needed. to uncivilised.
<MartijnVdS> I've just uninstalled all the global menu bits
<MartijnVdS> Unity works fine without
<nymwar> Didn't know you could uninstall it.
<oimon> you can disable it without uninstalling anything
<MartijnVdS> dpkg --purge appmenu-{gtk{,3},qt} firefox-globalmenu thunderbird-globalmenu
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that doesn't work for me though. Uninstalling does.
<oimon> MartijnVdS: what did you try? echo "export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=" > /etc/X11/Xsession.d/81ubuntumenuproxy ?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: same, but to 99local
<gordonjcp> I wish in the app menu windows key thing the squares were smaller and the text was bigger
<davmor2> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o davmor2
<MooDoo> hi davmor2
<davmor2> Ah finally tickets for the train got for Wednesday getting ready to rumble
<davmor2> morning MartijnVdS MooDoo how are you both
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah not bad thanks
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, wake up, prod, Oi, prod, Wakey Wakey!
<oimon> who looks after http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/ ? i don't think it is active
<MooDoo> oimon: last generated this morning
<popey> Statistics generated on Monday 24 October 2011 - 9:55:03
<MooDoo> what he said
<oimon> i don't know if it's accurately gettin gth elogs thogh
<Laney> seems like a rather small number of lines
<Laney> was it reset?
 * popey checks it
<oimon> i pressed refresh from an older time, and none of the lines changed except for the update time
<popey> Session Close: Wed Sep 14 05:03:36 2011
<popey> that'll be why
<oimon> the logbot?
<popey> the statbot
<dwatkins> Statistics generated on Monday 24 October 2011 - 9:55:03
<dwatkins> ah right, the log it's working on ends earlier
<popey> should come back soon
<popey> there we are
<popey> :D
<popey> hmmmm
<popey> its not logging, which is odd
<bigcalm> Disc space?
<bigcalm> Permissions?
<bigcalm> Sun spots?
<oimon> max file size?
<bigcalm> The cause of the problem is:
<bigcalm> static from nylon underwear
<oimon> saw popey's brother on QI the other day
<bigcalm> Elvis?
<bigcalm> I like this one "disks spinning backwards - toggle the hemisphere jumper"
<oimon> ross noble
<popey> how odd, just wont log
<oimon> strace?
<oimon> Netflix is to launch a streaming service in the UK and the Irish Republic next year.
<popey> not sure I care enough oimon :D
<oimon> just in time for the linux client \o/
<oimon> popey: don't blame you
<oimon> i had a power cut @ weekend..all servers went down after UPS drained
<bigcalm> Grrr. There's a DD on my account that just shows up as a DD. The company it is for will show up tomorrow, but that's a whole day of wondering I have to endure
<bigcalm> Oh. PayPal
<bigcalm> Weird
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ummm D'oh!
<bigcalm> I'm used to PayPal using my creditcard, but recently I reverted to using my main account
<davmor2> bigcalm: I meant more the fact that they named it DD
<davmor2> bigcalm: Not the most helpful thing in the world :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: the transaction is showing as being done today, the full statement version will be visible tomorrow
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ah okay
<hoover> hi all
<davmor2> hoover: morning
<bigcalm> Howdy hoovie
<hoover> Hi Biggie, davmor2
<KrisDouglas> Hello, I know this is a rather petty question, but is there a way to stop the window controls from "auto-hiding" on Ubuntu, it's really quite counter-intuitive.
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/25789/is-there-a-way-to-remove-maximized-window-controls-title-from-top-panel-in-unity
<KrisDouglas> popey, even with highly creative Googling i couldn't find that helpful, albeit depressing article.
<KrisDouglas> I am getting slowly closer to losing the unity shell :(
<popey> you suck at google :D
<KrisDouglas> I was actually searching more along the lines of showing permanently rather than removing the feature entirely, which is where I went wrong.
<bigcalm> I'd love to remove the drop shadow from windows in xfce
<bigcalm> Somebody google that for me please?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/62502/are-there-3d-effects-on-xubuntu-hardware-accelerated-graphics/62503#62503
<popey> switch that off?
<KrisDouglas> lol, was that a dig bigcalm? :)
<bigcalm> KrisDouglas: not really, but it could be if you want ;)
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm, I will let that one slip
<KrisDouglas> =]
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> It's actually something that looks silly, so I'd rather do without
<gordonjcp> I must admit, I don't like drop shadows
<gordonjcp> the Gnome ones are really headache-inducing
<gordonjcp> why would you want to add a visual element that makes your eyes think they're not focused properly, or that makes your monitor look broken?
<bigcalm> Yay, done it
<bigcalm> popey: ta :)
<bigcalm> Found the one setting to disable rather than removing all fancy features
<popey> KrisDouglas: what's the problem with the close buttons in the top left?
<KrisDouglas> To be honest it's not an urgent thing, but when the window is not focused they are not visible, and you cannot focus the window by clicking on the panel (I have 2 monitors) so you can't close it until you re-focus the window, hover over the button and click.
<KrisDouglas> Bit of a pain.
<KrisDouglas> If that makes sense?
<popey> it does
<davmor2> bigcalm: Twitter Residential Care homes no shock there then
<KrisDouglas> I just noticed another interesting annoyance
<KrisDouglas> if I want to restore a window which is maximised to a windowed state, i double click the panel and it unmaximises a window that has focus on the other screen
<KrisDouglas> that's actually slightly more infuriating :)
<davmor2> popey: what happens if you ask siri, how much a walrus weighs?
<popey> no idea
<davmor2> popey: try it absolute 80's have it giving out a hilarious reply
<daubers> Wonder which search engine siri uses underneath it all
<popey> it can use multiple
<Dave> Lycos.
<popey> wolfram-alpha is used heavily AIUI
<popey> dogpile
<Dave> Hotbot
<Daviey> infoseek
<KrisDouglas> I like Iris on Android, she has a good sense of humour.
<freakyclown> daubers: maybe the new search engine from mc hammer?
<popey> yeah, i played with siri a bit
<popey> was amusing to dictate a text message to her whilst driving
<popey> and get a reply which was dictated by the other guy using siri, and then read out by siri at my end
<freakyclown> http://www.billboard.com/news/mc-hammer-search-engine-wiredoo-1005427312.story#/news/mc-hammer-search-engine-wiredoo-1005427312.story
<freakyclown> popey: i played with siri a fair bit the other week
<freakyclown> far far too much fun just on its own!
<popey> yeah
<popey> shame it's restricted in many ways in the UK
<freakyclown> i might buy the misses an iphone just so i can play with siri
<freakyclown> http://shitthatsirisays.tumblr.com/
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/24/iris-siri-android
<freakyclown> i shall install that on my tablet later tonight :D
<KrisDouglas> iris is becoming a genuine competitor
<freakyclown> i think if google got behind it properly it would be much better
<gordonjcp> in Arch Linux, the standard way to make packages is to build them in a clean chroot so you can tell you've got the deps right - what's the Ubuntu equivalent?
<piffer111> Hello!  My packaging system has become corrupted after an unclean shutdown.  :(
<ali1234> gordonjcp: fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage
<piffer111> Whenever I try to do anything at all using apt or dpkg, I get: "dpkg: warning: files list file for package `tzdata-java' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed.
<piffer111> (Reading database ... 55%dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting:
<piffer111>  files list file for package 'libk5crypto3' is missing final newline
<piffer111> "
<ali1234> that won't warn you about deps though
<piffer111> Can anyone offer any suggestions?
<piffer111> Yes, I tried Googling
<gordonjcp> ali1234: and fakeroot assumes a completely clean environment, no additional packages?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's fake
<gordonjcp> ali1234: okay, I suspect that's not going to be the same thing then
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 and runs away
<oimon> :( my phone refuses to mount on my box even after switching usb ports now :(
<ali1234> gordonjcp: launchpad assumes a clean state
<popey> gordonjcp: pbuilder is a good way to simulate that
 * davmor2 tickles czajkowski just cause
<gordonjcp> pbuilder seems to be the thing I want to google for, thanks
<gordonjcp> ali1234: I don't want to use launchpad if I can avoid it
<ali1234> understandable
<ali1234> you can't use it for building without signing the CoC anyway
<gordonjcp> yeah, I have no intentions of signing the CoC
<gordonjcp> I did sign it previously, then revoked it because of Unity
<ali1234> lol
<popey> lol
<gordonjcp> it's a bit of a one-way street
<ali1234> that's a stupid reason
<ali1234> there are plenty of better ones
<gordonjcp> "here you go, sign this, you've got to play by our rules but if you want anything you can get stuffed"
<ali1234> well yeah
<gordonjcp> "oh you actually want a usable desktop? get stuffed"
<gordonjcp> "accessibility? get stuffed, what do you think this is?"
<ali1234> it's been that way since a while before unity though
<gordonjcp> ali1234: yes, but Unity was the point where I could no longer use Ubuntu
<ali1234> the CoC isn't the same as the copyright assignment if you want to contribute anything to canonical projects
<oimon> so long as other DEs are available we just have to accept it
<ali1234> that's far worse
<gordonjcp> oimon: <shrug>
<ali1234> the CoC is basically just common sense
<gordonjcp> ali1234: that too
<oimon> ubuntu is > unity
<ali1234> in fact that's why i refuse to sign it
<gordonjcp> I still find Unity extremely hard to use, but the fact that the little squares now have tooltips helps
<ali1234> they always had tooltips
<clockwatch> I wouldn't say that Unity made Ubuntu unusable
<ali1234> they just didn't work due to a bug
<gordonjcp> clockwatch: well, at least in the early versions it was impossible to tell what was going on
<clockwatch> In the past I've used operating systems with far less usability
<oimon> unity does remind me of an IT project that is a failure but the boss doesn't admit it
<gordonjcp> clockwatch: the thing that screwed me up was that the conventional taskbar had been replaced by a strip of identical little squares with no indication of function
<ali1234> clockwatch: beos?
<clockwatch> no
<gordonjcp> beos was quite good
<gordonjcp> Haiku is quite good
<ali1234> are we talking about the same beos?
<ali1234> the one where they replaced the conventional taskbar with a strip of button, except they don't have icons and everything has silly names?
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beos is what gordonjcp is refferring to. :)
<oimon> remember solaris CDE?
<oimon> http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/cde15solaris9 it was the colours and the sluggishness ugh
<ali1234> i do
<brobostigon> oimon: if memory serves, xfce was originally inspired by, that.
<ali1234> nice screensaver though
<oimon> brobostigon: which is probably why i remove xfce-panel before i do anything on it
<oimon> similarly on gnome2 the bottom panel goes
<oimon> solaris openwindows was sweet thoguh
<brobostigon> oimon: i havent actually used CDE, only seem pictures of.
<oimon> in my previous life i was solaris admin
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> but i think the best, lightest, simplest gui, i have used upto now, is haiku's.
<oimon> when solaris switched from openwindows -> CDE, you didn't have a choice that what the way it was. c'est la vie
<brobostigon> ah, i see.
<oimon> i stopped using solaris boxes as desktop PCs after that
<brobostigon> ok.
<oimon> unity might suck but we have choice :)
<oimon> i tried beos on a VM a little while ago
<brobostigon> exactly, :)
<oimon> still going, isn't it?
<brobostigon> oimon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
<brobostigon> yes.
<oimon> when i ran windows, i used to used the blackbox shell replacement for a while :)
<brobostigon> not fam,ilier with, sorry.
<davmor2> oimon: you need to use minuetos :)  you can do what you like with it as long as you're binary is up to scratch ;)
<oimon> blackbox shell replacement was a fluxbox DE for windows
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, interesting.
<oimon> davmor2: never seen that one before
<davmor2> oimon: tis pretty
<oimon> will have to choose an OS to run on my eee pc 701 when my son gets it
<oimon> in a year or os
<oimon> so
<MartijnVdS> oimon: how old will he be then?
<oimon> between 2 1/2 - 3
<oimon> he is pretty good on my tablet pc right now
<KrisDouglas> My boss' three year old can install iPhone apps.
<KrisDouglas> and of course, play them...
<oimon> my sprog with touchpad  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJdoB0k3DOw
<KrisDouglas> oimon, that's incredible.
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Does he always shake his index finger when he's thinking? :)
<oimon> he's pointing..he likes doing that. when he reads a paper book he taps the pages until you tell him what the thing is
<oimon> but he knows not to tap the touchscreen or it will start zooming everywhere
<oimon> so he "air-points"
<oimon> i feel for the kids that are subjected to loose women and eastenders during the daytime. kids soak up *everything*
<brobostigon> agreed, they shouldnt have to deal with populerist drivel.
<clockwatch> popularist drivel has always existed
 * brobostigon doesnt like, nor watches populerist drivel.
<MartijnVdS> clockwatch: as have parents that either expose or shield their kids from it
<popey> brobostigon: you watch top gear
 * brobostigon would rather watch, QI, to any soap.
<clockwatch> I was never much of a TV watcher anyway
<brobostigon> popey: good point, but not a populerist, as other things, which have far higher viewing figures.
<oimon> there are some programmes we might watch while he's in the room, but usually neutral stuff such as grand deisgns
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who
<oimon> no way - not for kids
<oimon> i couldn't believe that merlin is showing on cbbc
<popey> http://www.barb.co.uk/report/weekly-top-programmes-overview
<clockwatch> Dr Who was created as a TV show for kids with a vaguely science related theme
<popey> HIGNFY brobostigon ?
<ali1234> and it still is
<ali1234> except without the science
<oimon> it's certainly not for kids anymore
<ali1234> yes it is
<ali1234> it's certainly not for adults
<clockwatch> you mean there's kissing?
<brobostigon> popey: that is quite specialist, with unfortunate, lack of popular interest.
<clockwatch> I havn't seen any recent Dr Whos, but I remember there was minimal violence and certainly no sex
<ali1234> ian hislop destroying that awful tory woman last week was quite amusing
<popey> it was :D
<oimon> there are episodes that are scary in a disturbing way , and plenty more reasons why i wouldn't let an under-10 watch it
<popey> I do like Alexander Armstrong
<clockwatch> Oh they were always scary for kids, but that was part of the fun
<brobostigon> i still laugh my head of, of the last ep, that deayton was in HIGNFY.
<oimon> "new" dr who (since RTD/eccleston return) preaches a world-view to kids that they shouldn't be expsoed to since adults handle things differently - they can dismiss it if they don't agree etc.
<clockwatch> what is the new world view?
<clockwatch> surely the Doctor's view is relative
<ali1234> it has got a lot more politically correct
<ali1234> but everything on TV has
<clockwatch> oh, that's a shame
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, you mean like the gay bedroom scenes, in the most recent torchwood?
<oimon> don't watch torchwood but there were blatant themes in RTD's stuff. plus god complex stuff. dr who was never a messiah figure
<MartijnVdS> Good thing Moffat took over then
<oimon> i don't like the perversion of the religious imagery.
<ali1234> hmm
<oimon> moffat hasn't been perfect. he's certainly made more discturbing ones
<ali1234> such as?
<oimon> the lift one
<MartijnVdS> oimon: don't blink :)
<ali1234> i tend not to notice religious imagery so i must have missed it
<oimon> yeah -that was scary for adults!
<popey> there was a big one when the master came back
<popey> getting everyone to chant doctors name
<oimon> i see it in every episode
<ali1234> i think i missed those episodes
<brobostigon> i would rather it be entirly religeonless, if that can be imagined, than having the silly discussions, that come, when religeon is mentioned. really.
<popey> he came back to life, surrounded by a halo
<popey> and then floated across the room, arms outstreched like he was on a cross
<ali1234> didn't he also shoot force lightning in that one?
<popey> i think so
<ali1234> i lol'd at that
<popey> and hugged master, forgiving him
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I think you're confusing The Doctor with the pope now
<ali1234> was that the episode where he had to eat people to stay alive?
<clockwatch> The timelords will disapprove
<ali1234> by shooting them with lighting out of his eyes or something
<popey> the master, yes
<ali1234> i didn't know timelords could do that
<brobostigon> however. as a representation of the master, john simm, did very well.
<oimon> anyway i think these things can send a confusing message to young kids
<oimon> and is as damaging as scary stories
<popey> no more confusing than the sky-fairy stories they get at school
<oimon> remember "are you my mummy"? i was freaked out by that one!
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Another Moffat episode :)
<ali1234> oh come on, it wasn't that scary
<clockwatch> anything which makes you think outside of the box a bit is good.
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> "Blink"
<gordonjcp> I've always found statues a bit sinister anyway
<oimon> clockwatch: as an adult yeah, but kids get a confused jumble of everything
<ali1234> that recent episode in the spooky hotel was the only scary episode i can remember. and that's only scary if you;ve seen the shining
<brobostigon> i would favour, leaving detail, and letting people make their own judgement, on how they interpret it, than shielding people, because of the way they could possibly interpret the scenes.
<gordonjcp> I had this weird dream the other night with strange white-robed figures that were sort of half-standing half-floating
<gordonjcp> not quite aliens and not quite humans
<ali1234> i quite enjoyed that episode due to it not being about saving the entire universe for once.
<oimon> ali1234: i'm not that subsceptible but the shining is the scariest film i've seen, wish i'd never seen it
<gordonjcp> and when they spoke their voices sounded like MPT1327 trunking bursts
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: what the rhinos?
<gordonjcp> except they had a sort of an accent and couldn't pronounce the framing bits, so I couldn't work out what they were saying
<oimon> i think star wars ep4,5,6 is better for kids
<oimon> and it's a true story too :D
<livingdaylight> convert *.jpg foo.pdf
<livingdaylight> can somone tell me what is 'foo' please?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: the name you want your output PDF file toe get
<MartijnVdS> to get*
<livingdaylight> gotcha, thanks MartijnVdS
<oimon> or are you asking the origins of the words foo and bar?
<livingdaylight> no, I was just seeking the practical side to it
<oimon> :)
 * daubers will resist another cup of coffee until 3pm
<davmor2> daubers: drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink
<clockwatch> I should set up a rule for repeated words
 * daubers gaffa tapes davmor2 to the ceiling
<MartijnVdS> watch out for Lionel
<MartijnVdS> he's dancing up there
 * davmor2 nail guns daubers below him so he has something soft to land on when the gaffa tape gives way
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/X5g02.jpg
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ^ Doctor Who vs Star Wars
<oimon> lol
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: nice :)
<oimon> what's the maximum latency you would accept on a LAN? i'm thinking for NFS purposes
<gordonjcp> hm, adblock removed from apt?
<daubers> oimon: What are you serving up across NFS?
<oimon> daubers: home directories for 150 users via automount
<daubers> oimon: In that case, as long as you have a nice chunky raid and a nice fat pipe to the NFS server, I wouldn't worry about latency. I'd be more worried about the network bandwidth and disk speed
<oimon> daubers: the reason i'm asking is due to a proposal to move my NFS server offsite to a central location
<oimon> the difference would be bandwidth and latency
<daubers> oimon: Connected to that central location via what? (Please don't say single gigabit)
<oimon> this is what i'm trying to establish. there's some fibre connections but i don't know if they are 10gb or 1gb
<popey> iperf to test them?
<daubers> if it was single gige, I'd go mental. Is this an office or education type setting?
<oimon> daubers: currently unsure because i house all servers here, and i only care about getting my 1gb internet
<oimon> but certainly nothing is happening until i get assurances..but it's hard to stop the steamroller of IT upper mgt sometimes
<oimon> .ac.uk
<MartijnVdS> upper-mgt.ac.uk?
<oimon> monkeys.ac.uk
<daubers> oimon: Ooof.... so quite likely that all 150 of those students will log on simultaniously, so over single gig-e with a max throughput on an nfs server of maybe 110MB/s they'll get 0.73MB/s, that'll be some speedy loading times (I hope these are linux homes, and not windows desktops?)
<oimon> not to mention the many TB of scratch space that is regularly copied around
<daubers> oimon: Scratch space? These for video editing users?
<oimon> finding new planets
<oimon> that kind of stuff
<daubers> Ah, ok. In that case, you want 10GbE :)
<MartijnVdS> or better ;)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: RAID will probably be slower than 10GbE can give
<oimon> my network is pretty healthy right now though
<oimon> i don't want that to break :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: unless you expand to some huge fc san
<daubers> Though I am fitting a customer with infiniband to a raid in a few months
<oimon> nearly all my servers are on my SAN now. wish i had a second SAN :S
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Pah, don't need fc to be fast, most fc sans wig out at a gig and a bit per second anyway because of the metadata servers
<daubers> I've got 2 boxes downstairs that can easily outrun 99% of the sans on the planet at the moment
<oimon> i'm running on 1G internally right now
<daubers> oimon: What kind of san? Metasan/lan?
<oimon> EQL SAN on iscsi
<daubers> ick, iscsi
<daubers> Are they now owned by dell?
<oimon> yes
<oimon> pleased with it
<daubers> 16 bay chassis with sata/sas 3 disks.... probably peak at around 600-700MB/s in RAID 6 if their raid card is any good
<gordonjcp> what the..?
<gordonjcp> jackd1 depends on qjackctl?
<gordonjcp> what on earth?
<daubers> oimon: Seriously though, you do want a 10GbE link to the storage network across the buildings
<daubers> Went into a uni that had a single gige link to their windows home folder store thing. Took the students 15 minutes to log on (think 400 students logging in simultaniously)
<oimon> yes, i have asked the question , i would attempt to block any move without decent redundancy too
<oimon> our network is good, their network flaky
<daubers> heh
<daubers> ooooh coffee time
 * daubers won't be happy until he's managed to build a NAS that can provide 1/2TB/s
<MartijnVdS> but can you process it that fast?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: With about 10 clients, in one case I can
<MartijnVdS> scary hardwarez
<daubers> Maybe 20 clients
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I love dealing with people working in Uncompressed 10bit dpx in 3D :)
 * MartijnVdS saw the fibre digging people again today
<MartijnVdS> I'll get it "sometime in November"
<MartijnVdS> \o/ 500/500mbit _at home_
<oimon> ORLY?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have seen bt doing that here. we will be due, sometime next year.
<MartijnVdS> oimon: eindelijkglasvezel.nl :)
<oimon> sorry your postcode is not ready :D
<MartijnVdS> come to .nl ;) they want to get 100% coverage eventually (before 2020), and they're starting in smaller towns first
<Monsterwizard> Would employees accept a CS grad for a systems programming job
<Monsterwizard> I'm more intested in low level development
<MooDoo> Monsterwizard: if they can do the job why now
<MooDoo> not
<oimon> from which university
<Monsterwizard> University of the West of England?
<Monsterwizard> How important is the degree?
<Monsterwizard> I mean, my skills will never be limited to university
<daubers> Monsterwizard: Depends on the employer
<daubers> Monsterwizard: With larger companies it's almost a requirement unless you have lots of previous experience in a commercial environment
<Monsterwizard> Well I am doing computer science but I realise that there's little opportunity to study low level development
<Monsterwizard> and that's my goal :P
<oimon> Monsterwizard: how far into degree are you?
<Monsterwizard> 1 Month
<oimon> :D
<Monsterwizard> Too late to change though sadly
<Monsterwizard> I guess I will just practice and study low development in my free time
<oimon> change to what?
<Monsterwizard> Computer Systems Integration? Or Electronic Engineering?
<oimon> i did maths+CS..served me well
<Monsterwizard> Sadly there isn't  huge deal of maths in my degree
<oimon> CS is a decent degree IMO and some coursemates are coders while others are sysadmins..none of us really knew what we wanted to do after graduation
<oimon> just something with 'puters
<Monsterwizard> only strongly related to Computer Science....it's almost a Software Engineering Degree :P
<oimon> i was hired into a sysadmin role without ever using root
<Monsterwizard> lol
<oimon> linux didn't exist in those days
<Monsterwizard> Will I be at a disadvantage because I didn't study calculus or Algebra?
<Monsterwizard> at university level?
<oimon> doing CS? no
<Monsterwizard> Are you sure?
<_jane> 12
<Monsterwizard> Because many foreign CS courses seem to do lots of Algebra and Calculus
<oimon> i did my degree in the 90s so best ask others in here :P
<Monsterwizard> Still your contribution would be vaild
<oimon> there was a tiny amount IMO. i remember writing a C program to perform integration as part of a lab exercise. i don't think maths was a necessary or significant  component of the CS course.
<oimon> a bigger issue IMO is maths undergrads who haven't taken further maths alevel
<Monsterwizard> Good. That makes me feel better. Although for the sake of valuable knowledge, I'll eventually learn high level maths
<Monsterwizard> ahh hI see
<Monsterwizard> I want to study the equalient of A-levell maths without buying A-level mathhs books
<Monsterwizard> lol I'm fed up with seeing 'A-Level' D:
<oimon> maybe spend your time learning C :)
<oimon> what prog language is on the syllabus?
<Monsterwizard> Java D:
<Monsterwizard> But in my speare time I learn C using a Programming gate aray
<Monsterwizard> Mainly Java
<Monsterwizard> A little bit of C++,
<oimon> some guys i studied with got crappy degrees but were great programmers ( they couldn't be bothered to do the exams properly)
<oimon> i did the opposite. crappy coder but great looking degree
<Monsterwizard> lol
<Monsterwizard> gtg lecture
<Monsterwizard> thank you for your help
<oimon> don't ask which is better though
 * Myrtti waves fist at Parcelforce
<BigRedS> Is there a sane way to have tomboy data synced & available offline to a trio of machines, one Ubuntu, one Arch and one Debian?
<BigRedS> or a sane alternative?
<davmor2> Myrtti: any particular reason?
<BigRedS> webdav looks promising, but it appears to be an alternative to storing it locally :/
<davmor2> BigRedS: dropbox?
<davmor2> BigRedS: You could use U1 web interface to grab it all
<BigRedS> davmor2: Ah yeah, that'd make sense. I forgot I could stick it on someone else's servers...
<bigcalm> Cleaning out some dead wood from twitter and facebook is invigorating
<oimon> i clear old posts from fb regularly
<bigcalm> I was talking about people
<oimon> although fb keep them
<oimon> ah lol
<oimon> bug 818830
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 818830 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "[Sandy Bridge] serious power regression from kernel 3.0.0-6 to 3.0.0-7 (rc6 disabled)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818830
<RichTUK> hi all, im having some issues with my 8200m g nivida gfx card on 11.10, i have 4 drivers to choose from in the additional drivers however when i try them in system info it still tells me my gfx card is unknown and unity remains choppy
<Myrtti> davmor2: ordered 4 hot water bottles and the tracking system leaves a bit to hope for
<davmor2> Myrtti: haha you weren't expecting the tracker to be accurate were you?
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to make skype messages more obvious in xfce?
<bigcalm> Oh, bugger
<bigcalm> The "Display pop-up notification" tickbox is greyed out :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: how about an electric shock from a cattle prod wired into the ear phone jack?
<bigcalm> Might work
<oimon> bigcalm: use a dock with xfce?
<bigcalm> oimon: such as?
<davmor2> ask on #xubuntu they use it so will likely know
<oimon> docky has optional skype integration i believe
<oimon> but davmor2 has wisest answer :P
<bigcalm> Ah, ta
<davmor2> oimon: I know it's shocking but sometimes even I have moments of inspiration :)
<oimon> until he finds only one bot sitting in#xubuntu
<MooDoo> oimon: davmor2 and wise don't go together, you should know that ;)
<davmor2> oimon: in that case #xubuntu-devel
<oimon> i'm sure it has plenty of unity refugees in #xubuntu anyway
<MartijnVdS> as long as I can disable global menu and enable focus-follows-mouse, I don't care ;)
<nymwar> So it's not only me that doesn't like the global menu
<MartijnVdS> nymwar: not by a long shot :)
<oimon> it's sooo wrong
<nymwar> Initially I thought it was a good idea, until I started using it
<oimon> the mouse gets worn out travelling so much
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it made me realise how little I use the menu to be honest :)  I think I only really use it to change setting initially and then that's about it
<oimon> doesn't seem touch friendly when they hide it too
<oimon> i use libreoffice and firefox/chrome menus a lot
<oimon> and email
<Myrtti> I personally use Cairo-dock in my Xfce
<oimon> none are maximised except maybe email inbox window
<davmor2> oimon: I do from time to time, but then I have all those maximised so the menu is where I expect it to be anyway
<ali1234> it's so annoying that you have to click in a window before you can unmaximize it
<davmor2> ali1234: why do you?
<ali1234> because if you don't the window controls aren't shown
<davmor2> ali1234: yes they are you move the cursor to the top no clicking and then click on minimise/unmaximise
<ali1234> nope, doesn't work
<davmor2> ali1234: yes it does I've just done it
<bigcalm> Restarting skype has brough back osn
<bigcalm> Maybe having skype start automatically is not working correctly
<bigcalm> Loading it before the notifier or something
<ali1234> davmor2: nope http://imagebin.org/180571
<davmor2> ali1234: That's already unmaximised
<ali1234> no it isn't
<ali1234> the window is filling the whole screen
<ali1234> how do i unmaximize it without clicking in it?
<davmor2> ali1234: yes that is because it is the application that has focus that has it's menu on the top
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> i don't want to unmaximize the window that has focus
<ali1234> it is already unmaximized
<ali1234> i want to unmaximize the maximized window without clicking in it
<davmor2> ali1234: out of interest what would you of done previously if the focus terminal was on top of the unmaximise button of the fullscreen terminal which was often the case?
<ali1234> i would have moved the focused terminal, and then clicked unmaximize
<ali1234> look, the point is, i have to deal with a lot of really touchy software where one wrong click can destroy hours of work
<ali1234> so i don't like randomly clicking in windows to focus them, before i can minimize them or move them around
<davmor2> ali1234: Yeap I get it but at the same time I don't, I've not yet closed anything I shouldn't of but then I have most windows fullscreen
<ali1234> i'm not talking about closing the wrong window
<ali1234> i'm talking about you click in a window and trigger a button that deletes all your work or crashes the program
<ali1234> or both
<ali1234> or you click in the window and it also sends a small drag event that moves something out of position (gimp)
 * AlanBell agrees with ali1234 
<ali1234> then you have to click "undo" and *then* you can minimize it
<ali1234> it's totally lame
<AlanBell> non-focused maximised windows on the other screen don't have controls
<davmor2> ali1234: that's what I do that is different then I use the launcher to switch apps/windows and then click on whatever
<ali1234> i expected someone by now would have told me to unmaximize it by dragging the title bar
<ali1234> of course, this does not work when the global menu fills the whole width of the screen
<ali1234> when ever i click on the launcher it unminimizes all my windows and then i have to spend 10 minutes minimizing all but the one i wanted
<ali1234> which is also totally lame
<ali1234> i spend a lot of time minimizing things now
<ali1234> which is why this problem is all the more annoying
<davmor2> ali1234: yes it does, just tried it you grab the top left and pull down or in the middle on a menu and pull down
<ali1234> i just tried it and accidentally activated private browsing mode in firefox
<ali1234> it did unminimize as well, but then i had to clear an annoying modal dialog box
<davmor2> ali1234: actually your right it acts a bit hit and miss I'll write a bug for that
<ali1234> also unity in oneiric is a lot slower than it was in natty :(
<ali1234> when i drag a window it doesn't even move until about 3 seconds after i release the mouse button
<oli> ali1234: yeah I'm getting that too at the moment :(
<oli> Depends on the window, mind you. Firefox takes about a week to start moving but a terminal window is fairly fluid
<ali1234> it happens when running a 3d game or something on a different workspace
<ali1234> under natty, this worked fine
<ali1234> although it is still really choppy even after quitting it
<ali1234> not quite as bad though
<ali1234> basically desktop latency under load is now as bad as it was when i only had 4GB
<ali1234> maybe it is because i am using the light-themes and i haven't disabled those killer dropshadows
<ali1234> in natty i was using human theme, that was always much faster than the new ones
<ali1234> one good thing about unity is - no more crashing, randomly rearranging gnome-panel
<ali1234> i think that's my favourite thing about it
<MunkyJunky> Evening! How do I go about removing partition icons in the unity panel?
<ali1234> you can't really
<MunkyJunky> Even if it's a constantly mounted drive? :/
<MunkyJunky> It's not a USB drive, it's an internal ,media drive which is always mounted.
<ali1234> if it's constantly mounted and it;s *not* USB it should not show up
<ali1234> if you can tell me how you managed to get it to show up i'd like to know
<ali1234> because i have that exact use case and i want to see them and they are not there
<MunkyJunky> It's a drive I manually added to fstab. Before that I manually mounted it.
<ali1234> well, remove it from fstab and manually mount it, and it won;t show i guess
<ali1234> there might be some hidden registery - um, i mean dconf - setting for it but who knows
<MunkyJunky> But then it won't mount at boot
<ali1234> i mean it;s not like you can just look at the text files :(
<DJones> ali1234: I've been setting a machine up with 3 partitions mounted via /media (eg /media/music) etc, all on physical disks in the machine, those partitions appear in the unity panel
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> if it's in fstab or it is removable, it shows up
<ali1234> if you mount it by hand with mount, it doesn't
<ali1234> and that's the way it goes
<MunkyJunky> is there a way to make it mount on boot using mount then? Everything I've seen so far says you've got to use fstab
<ali1234> you can mount it from rc.local but i don't recommend it
<ali1234> it won't be unmounted properly and blah blah blah
<ali1234> just get used to that icon or write a patch
<MunkyJunky> get used to the icon it is!
<ali1234> or read the source to see if there's a hidden setting
<MunkyJunky> I'm not willing to go to that much effort to be fair. If there was a simple answer of "untick this tickbox" id be happy, else I'll just live with it.
<ali1234> i just put a faulty NAS unit back together and i have 13 screws and a metal panel left over :(
<bigcalm> Heh
<oli> 13?! That's impressive
<ali1234> the good news is it should cost slightly less to send it back to the customer :)
<ali1234> the bad news is one of the drives is dead and it is now degraded
<ali1234> and they are pata so no chance of a replacement
<ali1234> so they probably won't want the damn thing back
<gord> czajkowski, forgot tea =\
<gord> please come here and give me tea
<Pendulum> gord: in Orlando already?
<gord> yeah, always a week early
<MartijnVdS> gord: you love the USA that much?
<Pendulum> gord: what sort of tea would you like and I can see what I can find to bring down on Sunday :)
<Pendulum> (there are a couple shops near me that actually have a decent selection of British teas
<Pendulum> )
<gord> Pendulum, pg tips! or yorkshire
<Pendulum> I will see what I can do
<Pendulum> definitely can bring yorkshire
<Pendulum> but I think I can find pg tips as well
<gord> \o/
<bigcalm> I've just managed to break the mysql client without trying :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/718078/
<bigcalm> No idea if that is of use to anybody. I haven't tried to recreate the issue yet
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you Ctrl+Ced it twice in a row?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes
<MartijnVdS> so you interrupted its interrupt handling code
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> It didn't seem to be responding to me
<MartijnVdS> It should just block the signal until it's done :)
 * bigcalm tries to let things finish in the future
 * MartijnVdS wonders what to do
<bigcalm> Play Minecraft
<MartijnVdS> no.
<bigcalm> Aqq
<bigcalm> Aww
<daubers> Evening
<RaycisCharles> Standard?
<KrimZon> how do I select the gtk3 theme used in xubuntu?
<KrimZon> change between gtk3 themes in xubuntu, I mean
<tonytiger> Evening
<daubers> o/
<popey> pip pip
<tonytiger> I have my sound effects ready for tomorrow's show
<scoundrel50a> Just for an fyi, I went out roaming yesterday, took the Galaxy Tab and mifi from 3 out, went to Covent Garden, connected and things worked, then went across to St James park and in two different places there connected again with no problems.
<scoundrel50a> Quite impressed with this little thing
<daubers> scoundrel50a: Which tab is it?
<daubers> 10.1?
<scoundrel50a> yes
<daubers> jealous
<scoundrel50a> it didnt loose connection at all, and was quite fast
<Andres-kain> is there any way to change the greeting sound?
<Andres-kain> KrimZon you still there?
<Andres-kain> why can't you change it in the xubuntu aperience menu?
<Andres-kain> i have hear that not all gtk3 are still avaible. and might look wierd.
<KrimZon> I am now
<KrimZon> I didn't know you could
<Andres-kain> did it work?
<KrimZon> I'll try it, just got to install a theme
<Andres-kain> do not like any of the defaults?
<Andres-kain> where do you get them from?
<KrimZon> yay, that worked
<KrimZon> gnome-look.org
<Andres-kain> gnome-look for xubuntu?
<Andres-kain> great!
<KrimZon> for xubuntu there's also xfce-look.org
<Andres-kain> since you are around, you wouldn't nknow how to change the greeting sound?
<KrimZon> and a kde-look.org among other stuff
<Andres-kain> but you asked for xubuntu?
<KrimZon> oh, I see what you meant
<gordonjcp> *remove* the greeting sound would be good
<gordonjcp> along with all the others
<KrimZon> I thought you wondered if there was a gnome-look for ubuntu, not surprised that I was looking there
<KrimZon> somehow I've disabled sound effects because I like it quiet
<KrimZon> so I'll try to figure out how I did that
<Andres-kain> i use xubuntu.
<KrimZon> I have absolutely no idea how to change the sounds
<Andres-kain> yep. that seems like a tiny one up that windows has, krimzon
<KrimZon> I could change them in gnome too
<Andres-kain> really? how?
<KrimZon> gnome had a sounds section in system -> preferences
<Andres-kain> oh. had missed that in the day thanks!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Survey Next Steps: Leadership - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/24/ubuntu-community-survey-next-steps-leadership/
<daubers> I've just changed my osx desktop to match my unity layout :s
<jacobw> trying to make a mac like ubuntu?
<daubers> jacobw: More that I always mouse to the left now to get to the dock, kept having to go back to the bottom afterwards on the mouse
<zleap> daubers, cool
<zleap> i get confused with windows,  the bar thing to minimise andclose apps is in the wrong place
<daubers> zleap: Heh, I just find the applications are in the wrong place on Windows :)
<zleap> yeah that too
<zleap> no upper menu bar
<zleap> come to think of it,  if windows is installed its in the wrong place
<zleap> should be on a cd and installed in rubbish bin
<jacobw> i've made my XP laptop from work like that now daubers
<zleap> mind you saying tjhat i am now playing games more now i have my old pc dual booting
<jacobw> unfortunately, XP taskbar is about as responsive as the dead parrot :(
<zleap> i just find windows annoying
<zleap> out of interest now I can see my ubunty share folder i should be able to share my printer via windows
<zleap> and actually print from ubuntu,  temproary measure till i figure out how to get it printing directly from ubuntu
<jacobw> ipp://
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> ah so i just type ipp:// ip addy of windows box
<jacobw> i'm sure if its that simple
<jacobw> +not
<jacobw> which version of window is it?
<czajkowski> evening folks
<popey> Good evening
 * czajkowski hugs popey HELLO my PRECIOUS 
<popey> Ruh-roh!
<czajkowski> I can haz job again
<czajkowski> this is good
<czajkowski> no deportation for me
<czajkowski> :)
<DJones> Congratulation czajkowski
<DJones> +s
<czajkowski> why thank you
<czajkowski> now on my next hit list is the horrible HMR&C
<czajkowski> swines
<DJones> Heh
<czajkowski> I seemingly have a 180 quid underpayment of tax for 2010/11
<czajkowski> given I only worked 6 months of that year seems a bit hard
<daubers> czajkowski: Underpayed by Â£30 a monthâ¦ tsk tsk
 * daubers is a good boy and launders his money through the Seychelles so he doesn't have to pay tax
<czajkowski> daubers: also I seemingly got a magical BIK of 890
<daubers> I meanâ¦ ummmâ¦
 * daubers run
<daubers> BIK?
<czajkowski> benefit in Kind
<daubers> oâ¦kâ¦
<daubers> I seem to be regressing to my childhood
<daubers> writing some test code in python, realised what I'd just typed was Spectrum BASIC
<mgdm>  :D
<andylockran> :p
<Andres-kain> just about to update my xubuntu.
<Andres-kain> 21:37
<Andres-kain> deactivated 3rd party! 21:39
<andylockran> :)
<Andres-kain> start update window does not fit my netbook: used alt+leftmouse to accept!
<Andres-kain> 21:44 271 out of 1458 files downloaded
<gordonjcp> urgh
<gordonjcp> right, suspend just plain doesn't work in 11.10
<bigcalm> Does for me
<bigcalm> YMMV
<gordonjcp> unless the Ubuntu definition of "suspend" is "blank the screen and stop responding to key events"
<jacobw> i think that is the ubuntu definition of 'suspend' :P
<gordonjcp> what does 11.10 use for suspend anyway?
<gordonjcp> pm-suspend works just fine in Arch
<bigcalm> Works on my laptop: I close the lid, it goes into suspend. I open the lid, it wakes up and asks for my password
<bigcalm> Should it be working differently
<gord> suspend works fine here
<gord> though this is linux, so results may vary
<DJones> Just tested "Suspend" on this laptop, never tried it before, and it works perfectly as bigcalm described it
<bigcalm> \o/
<Dave2> My experience was closing the laptop, it suspending, me swearing at it and waking it back up again, then changing the config to make it stop doing that
<Andres-kain> only 150 files to go!
<KrimZon> in my experience everything is annoying by default and I have to change the settings
<KrimZon> one time they'll make default be how I like it... just to annoy me
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: I've tried it on four different laptops, with the same result on each
<gordonjcp> oh well, yet another thing obviously not tested before release
<gordonjcp> there's just so many annoying wee things that work properly in other distros
<bigcalm> Or tested to a limited extent. I think it would be difficult to test against _every_ machine in the world
<gordonjcp> well
<gordonjcp> you'd think that testing against a variety of laptops with Intel chipsets would be easy enough
<AlanBell> there is certified hardware
<Andres-kain> humm. debconf looks wierd asks me to choose gdm or lightdm
<Andres-kain> i'll go for light but i do not know what any of it is.
<AlanBell> which doesn't mean that the certified hardware will work, but you can jump up and down a bit more loudly if it doesn't
<bigcalm> gdm = old and busted. lightdm = new hotness
<bigcalm> Or something
<AlanBell> or, if you have a suspend bug, see if you can get someone to reproduce it on certified hardware
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: while I see the value in doing that, at the moment I need a laptop that *works*
<Andres-kain> ok, thanks! and i hoover mouse on it and it tells me what gdm means!
<Andres-kain> debconf still looks messed up on xubuntu update. with empty banner.
<bigcalm> I wonder if you can copy a whole panel (launchers and all) to other sessions
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: having the power management stuff decide that after ten minutes I no longer need the backlight on isn't by even the most generous definition what you could call "working"
<AlanBell> yeah, I have a worse issue with the backlight
<AlanBell> it flickers like mad when I am on battery
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I have that sometimes
<gordonjcp> at least when it's flickering it doesn't turn off after ten minutes
<AlanBell> like it is attempting to cause the user to have a seisure
<gordonjcp> being able to turn the CPU frequency up from 800MHz would be nice, too
<bigcalm> Shouldn't that be a bios feature?
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: I don't see why
<Andres-kain> unpacking libgtk3 \o/
<gordonjcp> CPU scaling works in Arch, but does not work in Ubuntu
<bigcalm> *shrug*
<gordonjcp> it's a shame, because bits of it all work really well
<Andres-kain> is it wierd that i'm more excited wit ubuntu update than rugby results?
<gordonjcp> leaving aside the more annoying visual misfeatures like the Mac menu and weird sideways Mac dock
<gordonjcp> and the coloured squares in the applications menu being so huge with tiny barely-readable labels - granted, they are much bigger compared to 11.04
<Andres-kain> i like it in the side, gives me more space on screen
<gordonjcp> Andres-kain: I prefer a taskbar at the bottom
<gordonjcp> Andres-kain: the thing at the side is harder to read because you have to mouse over each of the little squares to see what it is
<gordonjcp> if you made them wide enough to take a text label they'd look silly
<bigcalm> CPU scaling worked for me. Was at 1600, started playing Minecraft and it jumped up to 2400
<Andres-kain> no need for mouse, just press the super (or is it meta) and type what you need?
<bigcalm> Would be nice if super would replace ctrl+alt in xubuntu
<bigcalm> If only for super+d
<Andres-kain> humm seems like i thought i was logged off another user but i am not.
<Andres-kain> says i need to restart xscreen saver and xlockmore before contiuming?
<bigcalm> Google isn't getting me very far. Can you copy a panel and its contents?
<Andres-kain> but i do not care if other users cannot coninue their sesions..
<Andres-kain> hum..clicked next and it continued away. wierd.
<Andres-kain> what panel bigcalm?
<bigcalm> Andres-kain: xfce panels
<Andres-kain> never tried... maybe doing copy paste?
<Andres-kain> are your pannels so full?
<bigcalm> No, but I have 3 desktops running (one for each monitor) and I'd like to have the feature rich panel I've set up on monitor1 to be on the other 2
<Andres-kain> ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh sounds cool but not a clue. only one monitor
<bigcalm> I'm using xubuntu because Unity doesn't work on more than one monitor
<Andres-kain> didn't know that...
<Andres-kain> i thought all the pannels would be copied to the other desktops by default.. that seems to be the case with one screen.
<bigcalm> My set up: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/dzvQPhA1vXi
<bigcalm> I have to say that it's looking amazingly tidy on that day
<Andres-kain> looks cool, did you spend the pennies?
<bigcalm> A mixture of work and my own
<Andres-kain> you a developer, work in stockexchage, or energy sector?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I'm a web developer
<Andres-kain> out of curiosity, do you findhyourself saying... if only i had an extra screen...
<dutchie> i'm pretty sure you could always use an extra screen
<Andres-kain> heh
<bigcalm> Andres-kain: The trouble is that I've maxed out my desk space. I have 6 virtual desktops on each monitor :S
<Andres-kain> mental.
<bigcalm> Just a little
<bigcalm> The central monitor is the only one I tend not to switch desktops on
<Andres-kain> question: can you have your window manager open a new desktop with a maximized windows of each aplication you open?
<Andres-kain> don't know if that was english...
<Andres-kain> i mean i start up with one desktop but it will add more depending on number of windows open
<Andres-kain> bigcalm do you have ubuntu set so it remembers previous setting?
<bigcalm> Not really
<bigcalm> I find that it doesn't always work as I want it to. So I just load programs as and when I need them
<Andres-kain> so you manually open all programs after reboot?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Which is each morning
<bigcalm> I work from home and don't like having my workstation being noisy while I'm trying to sleep
<Andres-kain> makes sense.
<Andres-kain> only 2 hours and 16 minutes left on update. i think i'm going to leave it over night...
<Andres-kain> uh-oh terminal shows loads of gtk-warning and gtk-Critical... no show stoppers it seems.
<Azelphur> when I use my keyboards volume control, it changes the volume for card 1 Master, which does nothing as I use a USB headset
<Azelphur> any idea how to fix that?
<Andres-kain> unpaking replacement popularity-contest?
<Andres-kain> um sorry!
<Andres-kain> out of context.
<Andres-kain> no idea azelphur maybe in the keyboard shrtcut config?
<Azelphur> nope it's not there
<Andres-kain> i realize now i had the same issue and i think i did not solve it or solved its self after an update.
<Andres-kain> so no help sorry.
<Andres-kain> i am begining to fear the outcome of this update... more gtk critical something to do with the icons..
<bigcalm> Sleep time, night peeps
<Andres-kain> night. same heere
<bigcalm> Laptop in bed \o/
<StevenR> bigcalm: I have a tray for that :)
<bigcalm> StevenR: as do I
<bigcalm> It has cats on it
<bigcalm> Sorry, a cat
<StevenR> (I hope you mean a picture of a cat :) )
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> the fur would clog the air intakes
<bigcalm> I sadly have no real cats here :'(
<bigcalm> One day in the future...
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] My thoughts on Unity. - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/24/my-thoughts-on-unity/
<nucc1> folks, what is the program behind the erstwhile ability to right-click a usb disk on the desktop and select "format"?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-25
<NedC> hello!
<NedC> looking for some opinions. Tried to install a server distribution of Linux on an old windows box I had. can't isntall/use any packages (including gksudo). think the system is referencing the wrong partition?
<NedC> (I can ping web sites)
<hux_> How do I top up a vodafone mobile donge (K3770) as they don't support Linux yet
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments System Spec - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/25/ubuntu-accomplishments-system-spec/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Team Meeting Tomorrow - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/25/ubuntu-community-team-meeting-tomorrow/
<Andres-kain> got 11.10! seems to work fine, i even have my desktop!
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> Good porridge peeps :)
<bigcalm> Wow
<bigcalm> This is hot enough to rival a mcd's apple pie
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<daubers> Morning
<oimon> i just discovered that windows servers cannot recover from a power outage because it requires a user interaction to click a box to tell it why the power went off!
<DJones> oimon: We have the same thing at work
<oimon> i'm staggered
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<DJones> Doesn't complete the boot process until you click the button for "Cleaner unplugged server, to plug in the hoover"
<oimon> checked my list of VMs and all were showing alive, so wondered why my vmware backups didn't work
<oimon> exactly
<daubers> oimon: I love that box! Not one of the options for a reason is "Windows crashed", MS probably use it for their "uptime" statistics
<oimon> luckily only 2 of my servers are running windows, otherwise, would be a very tedious life
<MooDoo> just 1 windows server for me
 * daubers has none \o/
<daubers> though there is a creaky old xserve that falls over occasionally in the building still :(
<oimon> ironically the win servers are for managing vmware linux boxes :-\
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski
<MooDoo> i use mine for backups and downloading :D
<czajkowski> MooDoo: hows you ?
 * daubers offers czajkowski a pistachio 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: very well thanks, tired as is expected, but ok
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you ok?
<czajkowski> yes bit sleepy woke at 2:30am
<czajkowski> so kinda need a nap around now
<MooDoo> czajkowski: want to come look after Rosie, she's awake at that time too :)
<oimon> i woke up in the middle of the night yesterday, suddenly remembering that i'd turned the freezer off at 9pm so remove some ice build-up
<MooDoo> oimon: ooops :)  much defrosted?
<oimon> fortuantely was all fine, since the freezer was so full of food
<oimon> 8hrs off and no issues
<MooDoo> result
<oimon> but ur never more awake than when you wake up suddenly thinking about something like that
<shauno> non-maskable interupt ftw
<oimon> caveman and sabre tooth tiger entering his cave, and oimon and his defrosting food..
 * oimon has a day full of meetings :(
<hoover> good morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<Monsterwizard> Is there anyone here with life experience?
<Monsterwizard> Who's been through it all, kind of thing?
<dogmatic69> ?
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: you photographic hippy you
<MooDoo> Monsterwizard: i'm 40 married with 2 kids, does that count?
<dogmatic69> sup davmor2
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!
<Monsterwizard> Yes
<MooDoo> davmor2: wut?
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<davmor2> MooDoo: wellll
<Monsterwizard> my problem is, I'm afraid of failure
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski ankle from the floor
<MooDoo> Monsterwizard: then you're not going to get very far, we all fail from time to time
<Monsterwizard> which has lead me to do nothing because I'm so scared to do it wrong
<Monsterwizard> I agree :(
<MooDoo> as long as you learn from your mistakes then you'll be fine.
<Monsterwizard> For example, I'm doing a degree at the moment. Each time I open the text book I start shaking because I am scared I won't understand this
<MooDoo> sounds like you need to relax and enjoy it a little more.
<Monsterwizard> I wish I could
<MooDoo> there are hundreds of things i don't understand, but i just tend to buckle down, concentrate and learn them, and if i can't then i ask for help......don't be scared to do that, there are always people around to help
<MooDoo> remember even the most experienced people had to start somewhere
<directhex> that sounds fairly extreme
<MooDoo> what does?
<directhex> <Monsterwizard> For example, I'm doing a degree at the moment. Each time I open the text book I start shaking because I am scared I won't understand this
<MooDoo> ah yeah
<MooDoo> to quote from the film the matrix "sounds like you need to just unplug man"
<directhex> i personally feel uneasy about situations i can't steer. i dislike losing control to external forces
<Monsterwizard> I know it's melodramatic but it seriously got to me now
<MooDoo> directhex: but i bet you know how to work around them
<bigcalm> directhex: try driving on a skid-pan
<directhex> the key step is in realising that if you can't affect it, there is absolutely zero difference in outcome between you worrying about it, and not worrying about it
<MooDoo> Monsterwizard: you've been at uni a couple of months [if i remember rightly] go talk to a uni councellor? if they have them
<directhex> i.e. i could worry about rising interest rates, or not worry. i can't affect them, so "don't worry" is clearly the winner
<Monsterwizard> Yeah I think you're right
<MooDoo> hang on this is UNI, i though uni was a non stop party ;)
<dogmatic69> directhex++
<directhex> there's an old saying "don't sweat the small stuff". i think this is completely wrong. it's the *big* stuff you shouldn't sweat. the small stuff is what you can control. the big stuff happens off in some ivory tower someplace
<Monsterwizard> I just want to learn to relax and not care
<directhex> not caring isn't quite the goal. the goal is to go from worrying about things to dealing with things
<bigcalm> Anti-depressants can help
<dogmatic69> sometimes not worrying is worse, as things just pile up
<directhex> some things in life just happen. you need to impassively work through life's randomness, or it can get to you
<dogmatic69> a million small issues can really get you down
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: failure is *always* an option
<bigcalm> They help to control stress and allow me to prioritise things correctly
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: most of the time it doesn't even matter
<directhex> yeah, that's good advice
<directhex> i'd steer clear of psychotropics personally. failing is a much better option
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: you've usually got more than one shot at a thing
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: unless you're landing a passenger jet with damaged hydraulics, then you pretty much have to nail it first time
<directhex> lol
<Monsterwizard> I've made myself believe that this degree is the only option for me to become a programmer and if I fail I cannot be one
<Monsterwizard> ://
<bigcalm> Monsterwizard: how old are you?
<Monsterwizard> 19
<dogmatic69> Monsterwizard: i dont have a degree and im a senior developer
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: you don't need a degree to become a programmer
<bigcalm> You have a lot of time ahead of you
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: what's your degree in?
<bigcalm> Monsterwizard: I'm a senior web dev and never made it to uni
<Monsterwizard> COmputer Science
<MooDoo> I don't have a degree at all
<directhex> in most jobs, experience is more valuable than credentials. thankfully, these days, you can develop an impressive portfolio of experience without even having a job, thanks to FOSS
<dogmatic69> Monsterwizard: you doing it at uni, or something like open uni/
<Monsterwizard> This makes me feel better, but isn't it the case that then 'newer' generation needs a degree to be a programmer?
<directhex> deploying django on your own website isn't any different to deploying it to some corp website
<Monsterwizard> Yeah I'm doing CS at uni
<bigcalm> MonsterKiller: every generation has been told the same thing
<dogmatic69> MonsterKiller: you programmed before?
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: no, not in the least
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: get involved with an open-source project or two
<bigcalm> MonsterKiller: the key really is experience. Live and breath computers from the age of 6 and you'll be just fine :)
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: find something cool that you like playing with
<directhex> Monsterwizard, what we want at our company is people who love code. credentials are secondary.
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: do *not* do a Comp Sci degree, we already have enough "programmers" who spent four years using Haskell to develop a toy domain-specific language for solving Towers of Hanoi
<Monsterwizard> lol
<dogmatic69> :D
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: study design instead
<directhex> lol
<Monsterwizard> But I won't be limited to what I did at Uni
<gordonjcp> most open-source software sucks, because designers are expensive
<directhex> study haberdashery, then get a job at valve making tf2 hats
<gordonjcp> UI and UX design is crucial
<gordonjcp> it costs a *fortune* to get a UX designer
<bigcalm> directhex: haha, need a new hat eh?
<Monsterwizard> So suppose I fail this degree or get a low grade
<gordonjcp> even Canonical doesn't get it right
<dogmatic69> MonsterKiller: rewrites of exams are cheap :P
<Monsterwizard> but I kept contributing to open source, would I be able to get a job as a programmer?
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: I do have a degree, but I'd earn more if I had a PSV licence
<gordonjcp> it's never too late to drive buses
<MooDoo> heheh
<dogmatic69> Monsterwizard: i got a job due to my github profile, not even shown a CV
<directhex> Monsterwizard, with a decent portfolio of FOSS work, you wouldn't even need the degree at all
 * dogmatic69 does not have a CV per say
<gordonjcp> dogmatic69: nice, what's your username on github?
<dogmatic69> gordonjcp: take a guess
<directhex> Monsterwizard, a degree says nothing about your skills as a programmer - but if people can inspect your work, they can go "whoa, this guy is good" or "man this guy sucks!" for themselves
<Monsterwizard> How about big IT companies such as IBM and HP
<dogmatic69> github.com/dogmatic69
<Monsterwizard> I suppose they think it's essential
<MooDoo> pmsl i remember doing a YTS at IBM :)
<dogmatic69> YTS?
<bigcalm> Youth Training Scheme
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: i'm old.....youth training scheme
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> hehe
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: if I was hiring a programmer I'd want to see their work, and if they have some interesting projects on github then I'd definitely be more interested
<davmor2> Lorry driving pays more
<dogmatic69> all the people i interview have something on github, i would not call them in without it
<gordonjcp> dogmatic69: you're into cakephp then?
<bigcalm> When I applied for the job I'm in, I submitted sites I'd built along with my CV. My CV's work experience was all in manual labour...
<dogmatic69> yep
<dogmatic69> gordonjcp: yep
<gordonjcp> oh, and arduino
<bigcalm> I've found that CakePHP was the best framework to knock out a mostly working application in an afternoon
<dogmatic69> gordonjcp: my hobby... programming arduino :P
<directhex> Monsterwizard, the firewall for most companies is the recruiter. recruiters know nothing of any of the things being asked for, and cannot make any assessment of candidate quality. recruiters will ask for 5 years' experience on graduate jobs. recruiters will ask for 10 years' experience for a language which was created 4 years ago. recruiters will mail the guy who created RoR and ask if he has ruby experience.
<gordonjcp> dogmatic69: why did you use a bunch of if...else instead of a switch statement for the autoranging?
<directhex> Monsterwizard, any company with recruiters is a problem, no matter your qualifications and experience
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: if you know the conventions you can build a working app with one cmd in terminal
<bigcalm> I agree with directhex. You should be interviewed by somebody who will be doing the same work as you really
<dogmatic69> gordonjcp: just bashed that together, spent maybe 10 hours on C code. coming from php its a bit of a shock to the system :/
<gordonjcp> dogmatic69: also, why pin 13 for the backlight, and not say pin 9?
<gordonjcp> sorry, not 9, 6
<directhex> you want to be in an interview, and answer the "where do you want to be in 5 years" question by pointing to the senior developer and saying "i'll have his job"
<gordonjcp> directhex: heh
<dogmatic69> gordonjcp: there is a few updates ive not pushed yet. one of them was an abstracted 16x2 lcd lib i wrote
 * gordonjcp finishes interviewing dogmatic69 
<dogmatic69> :D
<bigcalm> directhex: in my case that was my boss. Which is actually where I am now really :S
 * daubers has no degree and is more or less managing a programming team these days
<davmor2> bigcalm: ditto-ish, I'd been driving Lorries for a living for 15 years and then had to stop, started testing stuff and it was that that got me the job
<daubers> Only failed uni 2 and a bit year ago
<gordonjcp> directhex: I had an interview once where one of the questions was "what kind of car would you have, and what kind of car would you like to have?"
<gordonjcp> directhex: (at the time) well, I've got a Nissan Micra, and I'd like a slightly newer one with a five-speed gearbox
<bigcalm> MonsterKiller: have we made you feel any better?
<dogmatic69> nissan micra, ew
<gordonjcp> "you wouldn't want a jag or a BMW like that?" (interviewer gestures at a car in the carpark)
<dogmatic69> :P
<daubers> gordonjcp: "only if you pay the fuel/tax costs"
<gordonjcp> not really, I like my Micra. It's reliable and bits for it are cheap, and it gets about 45mpg
<Monsterwizard> I do feel a bit better ,yes thank you
<directhex> gordonjcp, "why would i need a car, when i've made enough to buy a luxury airship?"
<gordonjcp> directhex: that too
<daubers> I so wanted to buy Ark Royale when we where looking at new offices :(
<gordonjcp> "what car would you get if you had Â£1 million?" was another one
<daubers> Would have been immense parked in the canal
<gordonjcp> I wouldn't
<gordonjcp> I'd put new tyres and suspension spheres on the Citroen, and buy a plane
<oimon> *error* hangcheck timer elapsed...GPU hung :(
<gordonjcp> oimon: intel gpu?
<NET||abuse> Hi guys, just installing a new desktop for work, fglrx doesn't seem to be wanting to install, lspci shows ATI RV620 LE [Radeon HD 3450]
<oimon> gordonjcp: yeah
<gordonjcp> oimon: that seems to happen a lot
<NET||abuse> error in /var/log/jockey.log     WARNING: /sys/module/fglrx_updates/drivers does not exist
<NET||abuse> this is a fresh 11.10 install, was trying to just use the normal restricted drivers tool
<oimon> intel driver isue it seems
<oimon> ^ gordonjcp
<oimon> wondering about using a newer driver, alhtough doesn't happen that often for me
<oimon> when it does, it's bad..i lost a lot of work
<gordonjcp> oimon: I see it in the logs on Arch
<gordonjcp> oimon: I haven't been able to identify what causes it, and it seems to survive all the same
<gordonjcp> possibly the WDT kicks the GPU back to life
<oimon> gordonjcp: what version of intel driver you on?
<davmor2> MooDoo: If you choose to sit on a chair of nails it will be a painful day dude,  go nick a comfy chair sans nails when no one is looking
<MooDoo> davmor2: i like nails.
<NET||abuse> hmm, seems i was choosing the fglrx (post release updates)    entry in the restricted driver manager
<NET||abuse> got fglrx installed it seems,, but multihead display isn't working :(
<NET||abuse> am i better off sticking with open Radeon driver?
<NET||abuse> haven't dealt with an ATI card in quite a while
<davmor2> NET||abuse: you might need to use the ATI catalyst software to configure multihead
<NET||abuse> hahah, ok i've completely broken it, i purged away fglrx, now i can't get lightdm to restart
<NET||abuse> ::)
<NET||abuse> ok, so i restart the machine, i log in and now all i get is a blank desktop with file/edit/view/go/bookmarks/help menu, i think it's the nautilus menu,
<NET||abuse> but not icons on the desktop, no menu on the left, super key does nothing..
<NET||abuse> i can open nautilus and see folders.
<NET||abuse> hehe, this is not fun
<NET||abuse> just tried Unity 2d, same view, simple file edit etc.. menu bar
<NET||abuse> ubuntu tries to continue working, get a notification popup.
<NET||abuse> just i killed the rest of my setup, how do i reset the drivers?
<gord> morning all
<MooDoo> bit late there gord lol
<gord> its morning here :P
<MooDoo> where are you?
<MooDoo> morning eh.....so US?
<gord> yeah, preuds sprint thing
<davmor2> gord: I get there tomorrow
<davmor2> gord: did you go direct from Manchester by any chance?
<gord> davmor2, yeah
<gord> virgin atlantic
<gord> the plane has usb ports in the seat so you can recharge stuff :)
<davmor2> gord: that'll be the one :) Nice
<MooDoo> gord: ah pre uds not preuds :)  no wonder i couldn't google it
<NET||abuse> damnit,, had to re-install, unity was too messed up
<davmor2> MooDoo: no it's a new electric car by toyota ;)
<Laney> won't charge my laptop though :(
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah that explains it
<davmor2> gord: so did it have standar plugs too?
<gord> davmor2, nah, just usb, get a lenovo X220, it has like 8 hours battery life ;)
<davmor2> gord: yeah but the flight is like 10
<MooDoo> are they ever going to do a uds that's not in the states again?
<czajkowski> gord: I'll bring tea bags pg tips ?
<MooDoo> you off over there as well czajkowski
<Laney> MooDoo: every other one is not in the states
<czajkowski> MooDoo: aye
<czajkowski> gord: and if you're really good I'll bring you some jammy dodgers
 * MooDoo really must go to at least one UDS
<MooDoo> davmor2: when you see czajkowski at uds, give her a *prod* for me
<livingdaylight> using libreoffice to make a pdf. So, question is indirectly related to libreoffice and even less directly ubuntu related - I hope that is forgiveable -  I would like to have an interactive feature, so that three are pictures in pdf that one can click on to get 'full' or bigger view. Can someone tell me if its possible using LibreOffice and if so how, or othrewise how?
<sagaci> !seen Lord_Readman
<lubotu3`> I have no seen command
<davmor2> MooDoo: how about I make you insanely jealous by hugging czajkowski instead :P
<czajkowski> eh
<MooDoo> davmor2: that wouldn't make me jealous at all.....
<czajkowski> no
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's not that nice lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: better still I'll sit behind her in the keynote and tie her hair to her chair :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: that's more like it....
<gordonjcp> okay, I'm stuck
<gordonjcp> how do you resize windows in Unity?
<popey> grab an edge and drag
<gordonjcp> right, but if the bottom is off the screen?
<gordonjcp> so far I've managed to work around it by moving it around the workspaces, clicking the workspace selector
<gordonjcp> randomly clicking around until it eventually gets the general idea about switching workspaces, resize window, struggle with the workspace selector some more then move the resized window back into place
<gordonjcp> but that seems a bit of a faff
<daubers> gordonjcp: You can move the window up by holding alt + clicking anywhere in the window and dragging it up
<gordonjcp> daubers: and alt-right-drag ought to resize it, but it pops up a context menu instead
<davmor2> gordonjcp: so grab the title bar and move it up and then reduce it's size,  or alt+click and move the window and then alter the size, or just make it fullscreen
<daubers> gordonjcp: I meant you can drag it up, and then grab the bottom
<davmor2> gordonjcp: not alt+right alt+leftclick
<gordonjcp> daubers: yeah, still more of a faff than it needs to be
<hoover> cheers all
<MooDoo> i see loco council nominations are coming up
<popey> indeed they are
<MooDoo> restanding popey ?
<popey> no, i stepped down
<bigcalm> Didn't we just have this?
<popey> that was the Community Council
<popey> (which I also stepped down from)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i though that, but it's different,
<popey> and the EMEA RMB
<MooDoo> popey: had enough, or just thought time for new blood?
<popey> neither
<popey> well, kinda the latter
<MooDoo> ah ok
<popey> i dont believe you should outstay your welcome on a board :D
<popey> I also need to focus on other things
<bigcalm> How long have you been on it?
<popey> 2 years
<bigcalm> Squatting
<MooDoo> if people keep voting for you, you're obviously doing something right
<MooDoo> no idea what mind ;)
<daubers> MooDoo: He obviously pays the voters well :p
<MooDoo> daubers: lol
<davmor2> daubers: no he's just the only one anyone has heard of ;)
<popey> :D
<daubers> Or the majority of voters are elvis fans
<MooDoo> davmor2: when you going for it?
<davmor2> shank you fery much instantrimshot.com
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm too busy as it is I don't think I got time for that too :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: aw go one, i want to make it obvious that i won't vote for you :p
<gordonjcp> how do you get the grub menu up
<MooDoo> hold down shift?
<popey> shift
<davmor2> MooDoo: When you standing so I can return the favour ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm not an ubuntu member
<gordonjcp> that doesn't seem to work
<daubers> It's right shift I think
<gordonjcp> I've held down shift all throughout the boot process, still doesn't show grub
<gordonjcp> wtf
<popey> it doesnt matter which shift
<popey> grub 2 or grub legacy?
<gordonjcp> no idea
<popey> is it a standard install of ubuntu?
<gordonjcp> whatever hideous misfeature it installs by default
<popey> grub2
<gordonjcp> nope, neither left nor right shift make a difference
<MooDoo> davmor2: i don't think i'll ever be able to stand as i'll never be an ubuntu member
 * daubers pondered becoming an ubuntu member.... but then did other things
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
 * bigcalm kicks Spotify
<popey> MooDoo: correct! if you will never be a member, that removes you from being in certain positions
<MooDoo> popey: yup, just can't ever see myself being in a position to get membership lol
<davmor2> bigcalm: DAB radio and absolute 80's  ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: and I thought you were going to rick roll me
<davmor2> lubotu3`: really needs to be call Marvin
<lubotu3`> davmor2: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no that's too easy muhahahahahaha
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm listening to 8bit dub ska
<bigcalm> http://open.spotify.com/track/5y7sJWrVtjoJ1n2eg1JpOD
<gordonjcp> so, can't stop it blanking the screen, can't make it suspend or resume, can't edit grub
<gordonjcp> and it uses grub2 so the boot loader is effecively a "sealed unit" that can't be changed
<gordonjcp> comedy
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: install grub1?
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: I booted back into Arch and stuck syslinux back in
<BigRedS> I've overwritten grub '2' with 'grub-legacy' ina  few places
<BigRedS> oh, or that
<BigRedS> :)
<gordonjcp> now I've got to the stage that nomodeset allows it to suspend, but it cannot resume
<davmor2> gordonjcp: try waiting for the bios screen to stop and then repeatedly press the shift button
<gordonjcp> davmor2: tried that
<gordonjcp> so
<gordonjcp> despite suspend/hibernate/resume being a solved problem on every other distro, Ubuntu still manages to make an arse of it
<gordonjcp> how is it even possible to get this wrong?
<BigRedS> I'm sure hibernate's not a solved problem on anything
<BigRedS> it seems to be something that exists as an unnatainable goal to keep people busy
<gordonjcp> it's fine on every other distro I've tried, on all the Intel chipset laptops and desktops I've tried
<BigRedS> Oh. Debian on my X201 doesn't hibernate ver well
<BigRedS> it comes out of it, but it takes about a week and a half
<ali1234> lol syslinux
<ali1234> later on i might install arch and then go troll in their irc channel
<gordonjcp> ali1234: go to it and good luck, there are plenty Ubuntu trolls already so you'll need to bring something special
<gordonjcp> ah, cool, hibernate has solved the problem
<gordonjcp> excellent
<gordonjcp> that's quite clever, by overwriting / it's kind of forced me to reinstall something else
<daubers> STOP! Coffee time
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
<Flashtek_> heya paul
<zleap> hey
<zleap> irc is easier then trying to read the facebook chat thing
<Flashtek_> indeed it is..
<zleap> what does fp mean ?
 * Flashtek_ sighs
<Flashtek_> http://www.freewayprojects.com/
<zleap> Flashtek_, u there ?
<Flashtek_> nope
<Flashtek_> you ?
<zleap> i am
<zleap> ok will try and remember to mention you
<zleap> u got any business cards ?
<oimon> seen the USb typewriter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu3g4ZBt3o0
<Flashtek_> zleap, I have business cards, yes..
<zleap> can i grab some next time i see you so i can help promote fp please ?
<oimon> arduino project
<Flashtek_> zleap, i will try to get some from Kevin..
<zleap> ok cool
<zleap> u going to the next lug meet in November
<Flashtek_> unsure..
<zleap> i think i am gonna bedown the rugby club so i will be around in Paignton not at the meet
<Flashtek_> I will do my best to get there.. i've been damned busy recently though
<zleap> ok np
<zleap> well i can;t make it either i just hope people stay around
<zleap> i think rob and roly went elsewhere last time then some else turned up later
<Flashtek_> that's the risk you take if you move from the agreed locations..
<zleap> we didn't
<zleap> i just can't make it
<zleap> they turned up and then no one else did,  (till later) so they went off to build computers or something
<zleap> rather than sticking around for people to turn up
<zleap> anyway back later
<KrisDouglas> Hello, OT question, what was the free webapp for event attendance management Ubuntu used not long ago?
<Laney> eventbrite?
<AlanBell> free for free events
<KrisDouglas> Spot on, thanks Laney
<KrisDouglas> & AlanBell
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016ltm0
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: cool, thanks.
<davmor2> jacobw: it's a fantastic place if you have been I recommend it thoroughly
<davmor2> ^ rest of the channel too
<jacobw> i haven't yet been due to proximity
<jacobw> however, i'm soon relocating to SE so i'll have no excuse not to visit :)
<daubers> jacobw: We should do a group visit
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu-UK group visit?
<daubers> indeedy
<MartijnVdS> If announced in well advance... :)
<MartijnVdS> well in*
<indy_> hi folks!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: "456 km, 6 hours 46 mins" (includes one ferry)
<indy_> can someone help me out with Citrix client?
<daubers> heh
 * daubers vanishes to play squash
<indy_> i need to know how to setup the SSL certificates
<indy_> the command I used before no longer works for Firefox 7
<jacobw> group visit sounds great
<jacobw> i seem to have a problem with pidgin starting without any windows
<jacobw> there's no problem after its killed and started again
<jacobw> o/ Monsterwizard
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15444405
<jacobw> this is odd
<MartijnVdS> Another reason to use two-factor authentication
<jacobw> indeed
<MartijnVdS> my isp/employer is adding support
<MartijnVdS> (compatible with the Google authenticator app, which I was already using at home)
<brobostigon> :)
<jacobw> excellent
<Venko> Anyone know of a tool/Greasemonkey script that can mass-delete Facebook wall entries? I've been using FB Purity but it only does recent activities (not old activities and not posts)
<MartijnVdS> Venko: there's the "Delete account" button..
<MartijnVdS> but that might be going too far ;)
<Venko> MartijnVdS: Unfortunately it does seem so. I want to maintain it as a contact option for people.
<Venko> I just want to purge all of this god damn stuff that's racked up over years
<Venko> It looks like the only easy way is to delete my existing account and create a new one with a new e-mail address.
<Venko> What a vile company
<jacobw> the deletation process takes some time
<Venko> There's a Firefox addon called iMacros and someone's written a script for it that will apparently automate clicking delete on each item for me
<Venko> I'll let you guys know if it works :)
<Venko> I couldn't get their script to work but the addon is excellent and allowed me to record a script to do it myself.
<stevepdp> evening ubuntu-uk
<jacobw> evening stevepdp
<popey> evening all
<stevepdp> hello popey
<nymwar> hello world
<mgdm> hi
<nymwar> Does anyone know if anything about libpng has changed in 11.10?
<MartijnVdS> nymwar: check /usr/share/doc/libpng12-0/changelog.Debian.gz
<MartijnVdS> everything after "natty" is new for 11.10
<AlanBell> evening all
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<christel> heya AlanBell, brobostigon, BigRedS :)
 * brobostigon has two layer auth working, with google auth app, on his debian machine, :)
<brobostigon> evening christel :)
<AlanBell> o/ christel & brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ AlanBell
<czajkowski> hawaii 5 0 time :D
<AlanBell> wonder if time will win the rematch
<brobostigon> bbc2, docu about bletchley.
 * bigcalm tickles christel hello :)
<christel> HEY BigRedS *snuggle*
<christel> er, oops, bigcalm*
<bigcalm> Awww, 3 in a snuggle?
<bigcalm> How's it going hon?
<christel> well.. if you don't mind..
<christel> going well! :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<christel> yourself m'dear?
<bigcalm> Working myself silly as always :)
<bigcalm> Why do I do this?
 * popey squeezed a Laney mention in
<jacobw> this documentary is fascinating
<MartijnVdS> this Bletchley Park thing makes me want to re-read Cryptonomicon :)
<MartijnVdS> lots of good music too ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i managed to get the google auth pam module working here in debian unstable, as you talked about earlier.
 * AlanBell has recorded if the sky+ thing did what I told it to do
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: google auth? or OATH?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: google authenticator, which uses oauth, doesnt it?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> well oath, not oauth :)
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> oh.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: next thing, is to get it working, or something similer, on my vps. to add security.
 * MartijnVdS liked that documentary
<brobostigon> me too, yes.
<Laney> popey: in what? (i love it when you squeeze me ;))
<zleap> hello
<jacobw> evening zleap
<jacobw> have you ipp:// working?
<zleap> hi jacobw
<zleap> sorry was distracted
<zleap> ipp not sure,
 * zleap is off to play c&c generals
<zleap> back later
<popey> Laney: just blurted your name out at the end :D
<kristian-aalborg> hi
<kristian-aalborg> is there a "chat" variant of this chan? I have a non-computer related question to the Brits :)
<Azelphur> OT is allowed hree
<Azelphur> as long as it isn't crazy OT / inappropriate
<kristian-aalborg> I'd say it's not... I'd just like to know if the current weather in London calls for a warm/rainproof jacket?
<Azelphur> lol surely weather.com can answer that >.<
<kristian-aalborg> Azelphur, yes... but stuff like that can be misleading
<kristian-aalborg> damp, windy weather feels much colder
<Azelphur> "Feels like xxC" :P
<Azelphur> I'm quite a while away from London myself
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-26
<freakyclown> ok how can i stop jbd2/sda1-8 from writing to my disk every 10 seconds and waking it up from spindown?
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * daubers should stop using libreoffice to plot many thousand datapoint graphs
 * MartijnVdS hands daubers gnuploit
<MartijnVdS> -i
<daubers> MartijnVdS: THats how I would've done it when I was at Uni.... really should sit down with gnuplot and relearn the syntax
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it's not hard, making pretty pictures using LO would take me longer ;)
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Another completely barking US Patent approval http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/25/apple_unlock_patent/
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can't really blame the vendors for taking the p*ss but this only really ends up helping lawyers.
<BigRedS> I've got to say, if I had a legal department, there would be a fairly large temptation to just see how amusing a patent I could file
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it has been done
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.google.com/patents?id=OfwkAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> that's a patent for teasing a cat with a laser pointer?
<MartijnVdS> it seems to be
<TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG! I have infringed that patent!
<MartijnVdS> don't tell the inventors
<TheOpenSourcerer> Damn - can I remove that comment from the logs please?
<TheOpenSourcerer> And that one? And... Ah blast.
<daubers> Hmm... really should have used gnu plot
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh poo - There's a new DoS tool on the block http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/New-denial-of-service-tool-knocks-out-encrypting-servers-1366564.html
<daubers> Woot, gnuplot = better++
<AlanBell> that ssl attack looks pretty bad
<JamesTait> Goooooood morning all!
<dwatkins> yeah AlanBell
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<Laney> greetings
<awilkins> Hmm, I find the "gnu" in gnuplot confusing since it has nothing to do with GNU project and isn't GPL code.
<daubers> what licence is gnuplot? bsd?
<AlanBell> I didn't realise that
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> in its defence, it is not a unix...
<AlanBell> daubers: http://gnuplot.cvs.sourceforge.net/gnuplot/gnuplot/Copyright?view=markup
<awilkins> daubers, Just reading it now
<awilkins> It's a little odd
<AlanBell> one of those old "patch" licenses
<awilkins> It's kind of "segregated GPL"
<daubers> heh
<awilkins> You can't distribute modified versions but you can distribute the means to create them
<awilkins> And binaries are allowed
<awilkins> I wonder if it would be stretching the point to distribute modified versions as git clones with the original sources plus patches as branches, pre-merged together
<awilkins> Unpack, checkout the "patched" branch, sorted
<oimon> hmm..open banshee to buy mp3 via amazon. click on a preview to listen to a song and banshee crashes...welcome back to banshee i guess
<awilkins> I do find that Banshee crashes dead a lot but I wonder if it's more to do with bugs in Unity / Compiz
<awilkins> (by "a lot" I mean it probably crashes about once a day-ish, or at least often enough that I think "d'oh, Banshee crashed again)
<oimon> awilkins: i've had problems forever since banshee. i'm not using unity.
<Laney> you run under --debug and report bugs with the log, yes?
<oimon> Laney: i use clementine normally but wanted to buy an mp3 album. on this occasion it wasn't a reproducible bug since i've tried again. more of a welcome back crash.
<Laney> ok
<Laney> moaning might be cathartic but it is usually not conducive to getting things fixed
<oimon> might still have a crash log, where are they kept
<oimon> yep. , that's why i tried again to reproduce
<Laney> possibly ~/.config/banshee-1/log but maybe not if you ran it again
<clockwatch> Any ideas on where I can find Xm.h in 11.10?  Previously I think it was in libxprintutils-dev
<Laney> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=Xm.h&mode=exactfilename&suite=oneiric&arch=any
<dogmatic69> i have created a user on a 10.10 server but unable to ssh in as this new user. keep getting permission denied (publickey)
<dogmatic69> any ideas on what is wrong?
<daubers> dogmatic69: Have you disabled password login?
<daubers> (over ssh)
<oimon> !info banshee
<dogmatic69> daubers: i believe so
<lubotu3`> banshee (source: banshee): Media Management and Playback application. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.0-2ubuntu2 (natty), package size 1799 kB, installed size 5480 kB
<daubers> dogmatic69: Then you'll need to generate a key pair for the new user :)
<dogmatic69> daubers: it should be using keys for login
<daubers> dogmatic69: Have you generated a key for that new user?
<daubers> key's are per user
<dogmatic69> can i use the key pair from them?
<daubers> Yes, you just need to put the keys in the right place (on server/client) with the correct permissions
<daubers> dogmatic69: logging in with ssh -vv will give more info on why it's bombing out
<dogmatic69> here is ssh -v http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1772160097
<dogmatic69> the key pair is from his mac that i put in ~/.ssh
<dogmatic69> where ~/ is the new users home
<daubers> add another v and see if it still complains
<dogmatic69> it does
<daubers> should give more info
<dogmatic69> hold on
<Laney> show us ls -la ~/.ssh from the new user account please
<dogmatic69> here is -vv http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1690781071
<dogmatic69> stuck it in the link above, just reload
<Laney> chmod -R go-rw ~/.ssh
<Laney> well, -r
<dogmatic69> its like this now -rw-------
<Laney> try that?
<Laney> if not look in the ssh server's log
<dogmatic69> still says permission denied
<dogmatic69> where would that log be? done tail -f /var/log/* and tried to connect and nothing happened in the log
<daubers> would be in auth.log I'd imagine
<dogmatic69> oh... Oct 26 09:29:09 ip-... sshd[26154]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for <ip>dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk [<ip>] failed - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT!
<awilkins> Is it just me or are a lot of default application associations broken in Oneiric
<dogmatic69> does that mean anything... dont think so
<awilkins> Like I installed FreeMind but it doesn't open .mm files in Freemind, even though i) Nautilus knows they are now Freemind maps (and not troff or whatever it thinks without Freemind installed)
<awilkins> It doesn't even list Freemind in the "Open with other application" list so you can't choose it as the default....
<oimon> there is indeed something very odd with the sound quality on the latest coldplay album
<oimon> thought the amazon reviewers were just being petty audiogeeks
<oimon> but it is blatant
<popey> Good morning everyone.
<daubers> o/
<MooDoo> moring
<dogmatic69> i got it
<dogmatic69> thanks Laney / daubers
<dogmatic69> seems it was permissions
<Laney> sorry went to get coffee
<dogmatic69> chmod go-w ~/
<dogmatic69> chmod 700 ~/.ssh
<dogmatic69> chmod 600 ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
<Laney> permissions on what? $HOME?
<dogmatic69> that done it
<daubers> ah
<daubers> ok :)
<Laney> usually the problem with keys
<dogmatic69> must have been the home dir
<daubers> dogmatic69: ssh-copy-id deals with most of that :)
<dogmatic69> daubers: ill have to figure that one out
<daubers> dogmatic69: Very useful for pushing keys around
<dogmatic69> how do you check what terminal is being used?
<daubers> which shell interpreter?
<daubers> echo $TERM will give you the term type
<dogmatic69> xterm :O
<dogmatic69> how is that happening?
<dogmatic69> for this new user i set up its now using xterm... :/
<daubers> the term type is just a set of environment details I think
<daubers> My terminator session on my local machine says xterm
<dogmatic69> if i type bash it all goes back to normal
<daubers> Ah, you want to know what shell it's running rather than the term type?
<daubers> ps -p $$ gives you the running shell
<Laney> $SHELL?
<daubers> Or that :)
<jpds> Laney: That gives: /usr/bin/zsh
<Laney> yes?
<jpds> $4 == PID.
<jpds> $$*
<Laney> he wanted to know what shell
<dogmatic69> sudo chsh -s /bin/bash <user> is the one
<mattt> morning
<MartijnVdS> matt-with-three-t's
<oimon> bacula is killing me today :(
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Captain Archer? Sam Beckett?
<oimon> lol :P
<oimon> nope, the backup software
<Myrtti> STUPID RYANAIR AND THEIR STUPID SILVERLIGHT
<Myrtti> ahem
<Myrtti> sorry
<czajkowski> Myrtti: whats wrong
<czajkowski> working fine here in FF and chrome
<Myrtti> I'm just venting out my frustration for having to pay a lot of moneys to be in Finland on 1st of Nov
<czajkowski> :/
<BigRedS> argh. why are there so many sorts of regex?
<MartijnVdS> I've always wanted to do that on an expense account... just walk into the airport, slap a credit card onto a booking desk and shout "GET ME ON THE NEXT PLANE TO <x>"
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: what's the problem? (most tools understand several kinds of regexp, or can use Perl regexps if you need the mto)
<BigRedS> Anyone know how to get diff's -I switch to ignore lines beginning with a semi-colon?
<BigRedS> I've tried -I';' -I'[;]' -I'^[;]' -I'^;' and I'm sure several others
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: don't Diff lines always start with + or - or " "
<BigRedS> nah, I'm trying to get diff to ignore those lines
<BigRedS> I'm incredibly close to piping diff through grep
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: maybe the GNU Info page has more detailed docs
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you could try --ignore-matching-lines='^\;'
<BigRedS> yeah, tried that
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: is the ; part of diff's output, or is it part of the file?
<MartijnVdS> it shuold be part of the file I think
<BigRedS> part of the file
<BigRedS> it's a recursive diff into /etc/php5/ on two machines
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.manpagez.com/info/diff/diff_7.php#SEC7
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sorry for the eye-disease inducing website colours
<MartijnVdS> but that explains when it "fires"
<BigRedS> ah!
<BigRedS> dammit, user error :(
<oimon>  diff -I '^;' 1.txt 12.txt
<oimon> works for me
<BigRedS> my differences, though are 4-5 lines each beginning with a semi-colon, and then one in a 'variable = value' format
<BigRedS> and, as per the doc MartijnVdS pointed me at, that doesn't get affected by -I because teh 'variable = value' bit doesn't match ^;
<BigRedS> hmm
<BigRedS> I think this calls for another daft perl oneliner
<BigRedS> hah. this is what I'm after
<BigRedS> diff <(find /etc/php5/ -type f -exec grep -v ^\; {} \; | sort) <(find etc/php5/ -type f -exec grep -v ^\; {} \; | sort) --side-by-side
<MartijnVdS> <()? Nice trick!
<BigRedS> yeah, that's one of my favourite bash things
<BigRedS> I keep meanign to send that to the podcast as their command line love
<gordonjcp> what does it do?
<BigRedS> it means you can have more than one stdin stream
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: see "Process Substitution" in man bash
 * popey is too scared to run it
<gordonjcp> oh, I see
<BigRedS> diff <(some process) <(some other process)
<BigRedS> will diff the stdouts of those two processes
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: yeah, I figured it out just as you said that
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: it executes the command between () and provides its output as a /dev/fd/* named pipe
<gordonjcp> yes
<gordonjcp> it was the question mark you put at the end that threw me
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: and it passes _the /dev/fd/* filename_ to the process
<MartijnVdS> popey: Command Line Luuurrrve
<oimon> the smiley face fork bomb is the most evil of things to trick a noob into...how could smiley faces crash your PC?
 * BigRedS googles
<BigRedS> ah. I'd never seen that as having a smiley face...
<Laney> man
<MartijnVdS> Laney: sup
<Laney> sending emails to companies wot have done wrong feels good
<BigRedS> done wrong in the ethical sense of the term, or just common-or-garden bad service?
<BigRedS> I'm in the midst of complaints with four different banks...
<Laney> just having a rip off price
<daubers> Ah, striping the customer. It's the American way!
<MartijnVdS> not just American
<Laney> and no price on the shelf end so that I could have told so before getting to the till
<Guest3890> :( not a guest
<BigRedS> ah, gord's been undercover
<oimon> hmm what to buy the wife for 6th anniversary?
<MooDoo> oimon: ironing board
<Monsterwizard> New oven?
<Monsterwizard> iRon?
<oimon> MooDoo: nah, she doesn't use her existing one enough
<MooDoo> oimon: pah training then ;)
<oimon> 6th wedding anniversaryÂ giftsÂ traditionallyÂ have a theme ofÂ IronÂ andÂ Sugar.
<oimon> we already have 2 irons :-\
<MooDoo> oimon: cuppa tea, victorian style [with the home cooked meal thrown in]
<oimon> maybe an iron cast of alan sugar
<christel> hahaha
<christel> yes!
<oimon> or a sugar cast of jeremy irons
<Myrtti> new set of fireplace pokers
<oimon> or chocolate , flowers and a takeaway (more likely)
<Myrtti> she can wave them at ya
<oimon> we have a fireplace but nothing to poke
<BigRedS> wow. three minutes to go from suggesting a new iron to suggesting flowers :)
<popey> oimon: bacon press
<oimon> i have it easy, she loves flowers
<Myrtti> cast iron weathervane
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=iron+bacon+press&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop
<popey> i want one
<popey> if she doesnt like it, give it to me
<christel> wow
<popey> yes, flat, evenly cooked bacon ftw
<oimon> talk about unitasking items
<Laney> the unix way
<Myrtti> oimon: it's not an unitasking item
<Myrtti> if you grind small combing on the side, you can use it to spread tiling plaster ;-)
<Myrtti> erm, grout
<popey> love those hostmasks
<oimon> deary me http://unclutterer.com/2011/10/12/unitasker-wednesday-pizza-scissorsspatula-cut-n-serve/
<oimon> i would think that my company would be a sufficient present, but no
<oimon> how many kg's do you think amy winehouse weighed? 50?
<oimon> she had Â 416mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood when she died.
<MooDoo> oimon: does anyone really care?
 * MooDoo takes his horrible hat off :)
<KrimZon_2> how many ml is 416mg of alcohol?
<BigRedS> I'd imagine of the order of 400ml
<BigRedS> assuming its density isn't so far from that of water, but I'm not really sure
<gordonjcp> quick question for the audio inclined
<oimon> a quick back of the envelope calculation shows prob 16 glasses of wine
<gordonjcp> tonytiger: for example
<gordonjcp> has anyone here ever heard the term "windsock" used to describe a popshield?
<gordonjcp> one of our sales guys has been stomping about moaning that he can't find replacements for the foam covers on boom mikes
<gordonjcp> and keeps finding information about airfields
<KrimZon_2> 400ml is bigger than the 100ml that it would have to fit into
<oimon> KrimZon_2: i was using http://dogsbody.psych.mun.ca/Tools/BAL/tutorial.html and assuming 50kg female
<oimon> gordonjcp: i think the term is windscreen
<oimon> if you are talking about mic covers?
<oimon> A microphone windscreen is sometimes called aÂ wind gag, orÂ dead catÂ orÂ yet [wikipedia]
<oimon> s/yet/yeti/
<gordonjcp> oimon: I've heard the term wind gag for the dead rabbit, yes
<tonytiger> Yeah, I've never referred to them as windsocks.
<gordonjcp> oimon: but I've only ever seen the foam ones referred to as popshields
<gordonjcp> tonytiger: as far as I'm concerned a windsock is a thing you get at an airfield, usually in pairs
<gordonjcp> they took away one of the windsocks at Broadford because they kept pointing towards each other
<gordonjcp> confusing
<oimon> what's the mic model?
<gordonjcp> oimon: oh, some el-cheapo communications boom mike
<gordonjcp> but it's a fairly standard sort of size
<oimon> http://www.amazon.com/Rode-Deadcat-Wind-Muff-Microphone/dp/B000BH437S also refers to them as wind muff
<oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone#Microphone_windscreens
<gordonjcp> we actually have some theatre sound and lighting guys in the industrial unit opposite, but Dougie the sales director is too scared of them to go and ask if they know where to get them
<oimon> i do sound engineering but my training is non-theoretical, more on-the-job
<gordonjcp> likewise
<oimon> don't ask a sound guy for advice unless you're prepared for the answer. IMO they tend to be worse than computer nerds
<oimon> check out the list of online shops at http://www.shure.co.uk/meta_en/where_to_buy/dealer_locator
<BigRedS> oimon: gordonjcp's nerdy audio conversation at oggcamp made me feel _really_ good about how I wasn't so nerdy after all
<oimon> BigRedS: which day?
<oimon> official talk or casual chatter
<BigRedS> nah, pub at the end of it.
<oimon> ah..had to return to base after the end of proceedings
<BigRedS> yeah, I wasn't there long - had to get to the south coast for dinner
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: thanks, that's the nicest thing anyone has said all day
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: I'm strangely proud of how many people actually said that it was by far the geekiest thing they'd heard all weekend ;-)
<gordonjcp> hells yeah, I outgeeked a geek conference
<gordonjcp> (tbh the GCode 3D printing guys outgeek me)
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: ah yeah, i heard the legends of your talk
<BigRedS> I think I saw the title and decided it'd outgeeked me
<oimon> just took a myers-briggs test to check i'm still the same :) http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp
<BigRedS> well, that and your explanation
<gordonjcp> complex numbers are fun
<MartijnVdS> complex numbers annoy
<gordonjcp> nah, they're easy
<BigRedS> I still remember the moment at uni when they suddenly made sense to me
<gordonjcp> complex vectors especially so
<BigRedS> and the realisation about forty seconds later that it was probably a good time to stop looking into them
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: you must work with AC power
<gordonjcp> when you think in terms of a complex vector things like phase and frequency become really clear
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: RF
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: got a bike?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: yes
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: turn it upside down like you were going to change a tyre, and look at the front wheel
<gordonjcp> the valve is the tip of your vector
<gordonjcp> with the valve at the top we are at z=0+j1, the real component is zero and the imaginary component is 1
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://blip.tv/dimensions/dimensions_5_english_ipod-1785604
<gordonjcp> as you turn the wheel clockwise the horizontal distance from the tyre valve to the spindle describes a sine wave, and the vertical distance describes a cosine wave
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: best explanation I've seen :)
<daubers> I always like complex numbers for making certain types of calculus easier
<daubers> and removing the need for stupid trig ids
 * popey divides daubers by zero
<daubers> Now there are an infinite number of me's!
<MartijnVdS> omg
<gordonjcp> daubers: yes
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: the faster you spin the wheel, the higher the frequency.  Where the wheel is around its rotation is the phase
<gordonjcp> from that you can see that if you spin both wheels at the same speed, they have the same frequency but different phase (maybe)
<daubers> gordonjcp: I get to go through all this again soon for my OU degree
<gordonjcp> daubers: I'm not a mathematician and I don't even play one on TV
<daubers> maths is easy. Making it useful is hard
<gordonjcp> daubers: hence my rather rambling talk on SDR
<gordonjcp> I was a bit M6-lagged
<daubers> Ah! That was you!
 * daubers twigs
<gordonjcp> by that point I'd had about six hours sleep in two days ;-)
<gordonjcp> four of which were in a very warm tent being slowly intoxicated by paraffin fumes
<daubers> I tried looking into SDR at Uni as we were building a small radio telescope. Ended making it hardware defined as we ran out of time
<daubers> butane fumes are better for you
<daubers> In a still not very good for you manner....
<gordonjcp> daubers: ah, oaky
<gordonjcp> *okay
<gordonjcp> daubers: with stuff like the funcube dongle now it would be dead easy
<gordonjcp> I wanted to adapt a 30m band Softrock to 10.7MHz so I could use it as the IF of an otherwise conventional receiver, for radioastronomy and satellite observation
<daubers> Cool, first radio thing I built was a simple long wave reciever to try and listen to the sun :)
 * BigRedS has been outnerded again :)
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://www.dimensions-math.org/Dim_CH5_E.htm
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I listened to Black Hole Sun on my first radio receiver 8-)
<daubers> :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: nice
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: interesting where he talks about multiplications
<gordonjcp> in SDR, you shift the frequency of the incoming samples by multiplying them with a rotating vector, which is a mathematical model of a diode ring mixer where two voltages are multiplied
<gordonjcp> your rotating vector is of course really just numbers pretending to be two sine oscillators exactly 90 degrees out of phase
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I've tried to understand QAM and QPSK etc but it gave me headaches. Is this like that?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: not really, no
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I mean if you want to have a play then you can grab lysdr from github and build it
<gordonjcp> if you felt inclined to make a PPA I would have no objections
<gordonjcp> jack is a faff in Ubuntu though
 * MartijnVdS doesn't know anything about radios, apparently
<bigcalm> AlanBell: tickle
 * AlanBell giggles
<christel> aww
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: like a little girl?
 * oimon wonders why vmware server not working, fiddles with router config, realises someone has stuck wrong hostname label on switch and tricked oimon
<gordonjcp> oimon: hurr
<MooDoo> oimon: you've broken mine have you, lost connectiong to my windows server ;)
<MartijnVdS> no that's just Microsoft
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: This is also quite readable, but not really about complex numbers (more about how transmitters/receivers work with digital signals :) http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5965-7160E.pdf
<selinuxium> hi all   o/
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<dogmatic69> o/
<bigcalm> Good night
<oimon> guys do you all know what your personality types are?
<bigcalm> 4pm, yikes!
<oimon> (myers briggs)
<bigcalm> Deranged
<oimon> interested in what results geeks get
<selinuxium> lo BigRedS  :)
<oimon> found this quite useful for me: http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ.html
 * gordonjcp got INTP, no idea what that means in reality
<iclebyte> oimon, that's me.
<oimon> iclebyte: try the test http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp
<oimon> it's very useful in learning how to relate to people
<oimon> and understanding team member
<bigcalm> Is it normal for connections over a VPN to take a _long_ time to establish, or is it just this one client's set up?
<oimon> i read one description of INTJ that basically said "quick to jump in and answer questions on irc"
<iclebyte> bigcalm, what kind of vpn? openvpn ?
<bigcalm> iclebyte: F5
<iclebyte> bigcalm, not used that but openvpn is up in a couple of seconds or there is an issue.
<oimon> do you have forward & reverse DNS entries
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: pptp vpn from Ubuntu lapdog to Arch desktop at home on cable, crap connection here at work, takes about ten seconds
<bigcalm> I had to hunt down a pyton/C script to be able to make a connection
<bigcalm> To SSH in it takes in excess of 30 seconds for the password prompt to appear
<oimon> it could be name resolution realted
<bigcalm> Connecting to an IP address
<iclebyte> bigcalm, is the ssh connection slow once you've logged in after the 30 seconds?
 * awilkins usually comes out INTJ
<bigcalm> iclebyte: no. And I was able to send a file over scp to the remote server at 1.3MB/s
<oimon> interestingly the number of people with aspergers with INTJ/P is v high
<iclebyte> bigcalm, then i would say it might be a reverse dns issue.
<bigcalm> Just timed it. 53 seconds
<awilkins> oimon, It doesn't surprise me, all those questions about social scenarios
<oimon> yeah lol
<iclebyte> bigcalm, when logging in the ssh server by default will try and lookup a reverse entry for your client, this can cause problems if its not running. try disabling reverse dns lookups on the SSH server in /etc/ssh/sshd.conf and try again
<oimon> i get vertigo type feeling in crowds
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/719754/ that is the part that took the longest
<awilkins> My personal idea of hell is the Trafford Centre (big mall near Manchester) on a Saturday close to Ch*****as
<bigcalm> iclebyte: sadly I don't have the permission to mess with the SSH server on the remote end.
<awilkins> Just about tolerable if I'm alone. If I'm with the wifelet, I'll want to kill someone within about 10 minutes.
<oimon> i get it subconciously. as i walk through a narrow gap along with other people, i suddenly feel dizzy before i get a chance to process what's happening
<oimon> same with walking up steps in a crowd
<oimon> the weird thing is, it only happened in the last few years
<directhex> INTJ. surprise surprise
<MartijnVdS> NERD :P
<iclebyte> bigcalm, do you have the ability to ensure that there is a reverse dns entry for the host from which you are connecting?
<bigcalm> iclebyte: not really :) I'll make do with the time delay
<awilkins> It's interesting to revisit this stuff, I just got promoted to a role with more management responsibility
<awilkins> Apparently us INTJs like to be the "man behind the curtain"
<oimon> totally the techie personality type
<awilkins> "Forced to conform to inefficient procedures, go through the often wasteful motions of unnecessary meetings or sacrifice authenticity for political correctness, the INTJ, in such an environment, may encounter great frustration."
<oimon> i like to make things happen but only if not the centre of attention
<awilkins> Oh damn, that's true.
<oimon> extroverts annoy me
<awilkins> Yeah, we have a couple here I would gleefully wrap in duct-tape and lock in one of our office phone booths.
<iclebyte> oimon, you need them though, no no one would talk.
<awilkins> Esp. the one with a phone wallpaper that consists of a finger pointing out of screen with caption "Who's the most awsome today?"
<iclebyte> on = or
<iclebyte> plus you get to sit there and critize them in your head.
<oimon> iclebyte: yeah, it's annoying :P
<iclebyte> the guy who sits oposite me just talks all day
<oimon> we all have faults , extroverts show you theirs often
<iclebyte> i quite like it tho
<iclebyte> oh wait hes talking to me again
<awilkins> I just have a pair of in-ear plug headphones
<awilkins> And a wide selection of electronic trance music
<iclebyte> he just said "you know that big hoo harr google had about them driving round filming in cars, who cares - it's cool!"
<oimon> thats just talking for no reason
<MartijnVdS> well it IS cool :)
<iclebyte> now he's talking about putting a sign in his window saying "Hi - google car"
<iclebyte> amazing =)
<oimon> i would have murderous thoughts on a daily basis
<iclebyte> nah, he's cool
<iclebyte> apparently placing the sign in his window would make him feel "big and strong, like im enfocing my will on google"
<iclebyte> epic =)
<awilkins> >-<
<oimon> i hate the red gmail icon in my taskbar showing unread mail..so i have to read it ASAP :-\
<MartijnVdS> Now you make him sound like a case for the psych
<awilkins> Suggest that he photocopies his "equipment" at 150% and puts that on this poster too.
<iclebyte> lmao
<iclebyte> thats the best online to realworld timing ive ever had.
<MartijnVdS> he just did it?
<oimon> INTJ shouldn't work in the public sector, because so much is done badly, it frustrates you intently
<awilkins> oimon, Yeah, I'm reading this piece and thinking "Damn, how can I assassinate all my superiors"
<iclebyte> probably the most annoying man i've ever met was sat next to me on my LPIC1 course.
<awilkins> I'm sooooo peed off with doing things (or not) for political rather than technical reasons
<oimon> i've just noticed i have 13 days leave to take before 21dec
<MooDoo> oimon: lucky you
<gordonjcp> oimon: I have 17 to take before the 31st of December
<oimon> i like working though :(
<oimon> we get 21ish-1jan off anyway
<awilkins> Like the totally arbitrary 6 month deadline we had to do a whole bunch of software, based on the Worst Platform Ever (tm) for no reason other than "that is our strategy"
<awilkins> In the end, the software we made i) works ii) Doesn't use the UI part of tWPE iii) Doesn't use the data storage backend of tWPE either iv) Just has a thin sliver of tWPE in the middle so we can pretend
<awilkins> And the 6 month deadline being based on the work the software was designed for taking another 6 months... hah
<awilkins> Took them 6 weeks (as predicted by us when trying to get deadline extensions)
<awilkins> So we frazzled our development team for nothing apart from preserving some upper management tonkhead's dignity because we didn't overturn his "set in stone" deadlines based on reality rather than taking a 2 year project span and dividing it into 4 equal chunks because they didn't bother actually assessing how long things take.
 * awilkins is aware he's ranting
<MartijnVdS> sounds familiar
<MooDoo> awilkins: you ranting ;)
<awilkins> So I'm now down to 50% strength because the manager I replaced quit, and so did my UI guy.
<awilkins> Happy joy.
<MooDoo> typical, vmware guest down, can't do anything till i get home ....boooooo
<oimon> forgot my tablet to read on the train, and uupc isn't out for download yet :( sad
<popey> heh
 * oimon reckons popey has uupc on highlight
<jacobw> oimon: radiolab.org
<popey> oimon: maybe :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Survey Next Steps: Enhancing Recognition and Credit - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/26/ubuntu-community-survey-next-steps-enhancing-recognition-and-credit/
<awilkins> I wonder if zombie trainspotters say "traaains!"
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I know vegetarian zombies say "graaaains"
<brobostigon> and beer lovers, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: zombies don't drink beer :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ohwell, :(
<awilkins> I'm knackered, three days commuting on trains really takes it out of me
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Also, a zombie on electricity: "MAAAAINS"
<brobostigon> lol
<awilkins> /join #git
<awilkins> Arrgh. Stupid phone IRC telepathy plugin
<awilkins> Mmmn, garbage train. Fragrant.
<ikonia> long shot UK guys, but I don't suppose any of you want a MSI motherboard with an Intel Core2duo dual core CPU, with 2GB of ram - for free, before I throw it out
<ikonia> or two WinTV nova cards (dual digital tuners on each, work great with Linux)
<ikonia> ooh and you can have a Silverstone 400watt silent PSU
<ikonia> it's all free if anyone wants it, or I'll throw it out
<awilkins> Live near manchester?
<ikonia> no, but I'll post it down if you want, my parents are reasonably close to Manchester (25 minutes away)
<ikonia> it's my old mythTV server, worked great, record/watch 4 live feeds plus store on disk
<awilkins> Sounded like one :)
<ikonia> shock horror.....
<ikonia> server + multiple TV cards.....wonder what that's for
<ikonia> the cpu is 2.4ghz I think
<awilkins> Will you be around later? I'm commuting ATM and signal will drop out a few time on this leg of journey
<ikonia> I won't bin it tonight if that's what you mean
<ikonia> but I'm getting ready to
<awilkins> Is it ATX or uATX form factor?
<ikonia> think it's ATX
<ikonia> pretty sure, slightly bigger than uatx
<ikonia> I'll get the board model later if you're interested in it
<awilkins> Thinking if I don't want it, nice present for madlab.org.uk
<ikonia> if $anyone has a use for it, they are welcome to it
<awilkins> But may well want it anyway ... give them my old gear
<ikonia> I wondered if someone may want it for a myth box, or a development machine, or desktop for the child etc etc
<awilkins> core duo big step up from sempron 1800
<ikonia> or just want the cards etc
<ikonia> well quite
<ikonia> I've got a crappy nvidia AGP card you can have with it
<ikonia> just be pleased for it to get use rather than my binning it
<awilkins> In the words of Frank Abagnale, even better
<ikonia> I'll hang of binning it until you get home and confirm it's something you want then
<awilkins> happy to pay you to post it to me
<awilkins> That's brightened up my trip home. My headphone cable has broken on left channel, will have to get soldering iron out
<czajkowski> gord: you holding up ok
<brobostigon> yay, get-iplayer yo the rescue, life of brian, :)
<ikonia> awilkins: no problem
<ikonia> awilkins: make a donation to an open source project
<awilkins> ikonia: How gracious! Shall try to equal your generosity.
<ikonia> ha ha, good for you
<gordonjcp> ikonia: where are you?
<ikonia> gordonjcp: Southwest, near Bristol
<awilkins> Are you skipping country or something?
<ikonia> who me ?
<awilkins> Yup. Just curious. Either that or you just ordered a new server and your flat is tiiiny.
<gordonjcp> ikonia: ah, okay
<gordonjcp> ikonia: for some odd reason I thought you were in Norway
<ikonia> just done a big consolidation thats all, put a new machine together to replace many others
<awilkins> Fairy snuff
<ikonia> gordonjcp: the nick perhaps ?
<ikonia> everyone normally thinks it's finish
<gordonjcp> ikonia: sometimes people think I'm norwegian because of my accent
<gordonjcp> or canadian
<ikonia> awilkins: just a big upgrade so it seems pointless to hang on to it, rather have someone get use out of it
<ikonia> gordonjcp: aboot
<awilkins> I have an old case lying around with a thunderbird in it that may suit v.nicely
<ikonia> case is something I can't help with
<ikonia> don't have anything space on that front
<awilkins> NP with that
<awilkins> For maximum WAF may need a new case anyhow
<awilkins> She won't like the idea of a MythTV upgrade anyway.
<ikonia> I may...(not sure) have some more ram for this to take it up to 4GB, not %100 certain
<ikonia> I'll also have another machine spare at the end of the month when I've finished the consolidation
<ikonia> another 2.4gz c2d with 4gb of ram on an asus board
<ikonia> so keep in mind if someone wants it, but that ones not available yet
<awilkins> The new builds don't have the theme she's used to.. 2GB is more than adequate for Mythtv, I'm on 512MB ATM.
<awilkins> And thats a frontend
<awilkins> (w. backend as well)
<ikonia> well, it's yours, I'll get a box for it later
<awilkins> We should have a freecycle for geeks. GeekCycle
<awilkins> Take donations from exchange partners and use proceeds to ship spare hardware to worthies
<awilkins> MadLab are always up for spare hardware AFAIK
<ikonia> well, they may have a use for another machine when I take it to bits later
 * bigcalm prods gPodder
<bigcalm> Give me a new UUPC damn it!
 * Dave2 pats his beyondpod
<Dave2> It gave it to me last night
 * popey hands bigcalm http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/download/uupc_s04e18_high.ogg
<bigcalm> Aww, fanky
<stevepdp> good evening ubuntu-uk
<popey> Hullo stevepdp
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Request sent, waiting for reply..."
<MartijnVdS> popey: is that server a bit busy atm?
<popey> OOM
<MartijnVdS> oops
<popey> #blameapache
<MartijnVdS> #installnginx
<MartijnVdS> (or cherokee, or lighttpd)
<popey> yeah, keep meaning to
<MartijnVdS> $ make time
<MartijnVdS> make: *** No rule to make target `time'.  Stop.
<popey> âº
<DaveBug> Evening
<DaveBug> :-)
<MartijnVdS> \o DaveBug
<DaveBug> Hi MartijnVdS
<Andres-kain> evening
<diplo> Evening all
<Andres-kain> idem
<DaveBug> Anyone going to the Nottingham Happy Hour?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell probably
<Andres-kain> any of you use arduino? i am making my christmas wishlist
<tonytiger> Bit too far for me
<Andres-kain> never used before.
<MartijnVdS> Andres-kain: I've heard it's cool. I think tonytiger knows more
<MartijnVdS> Andres-kain: and popey
 * popey cuddles DaveBug 
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: DaveBug: I am not going, but Laney and MooDoo are I think
<popey> I might
<popey> for a bit of a giggle
<DaveBug> popey: Well, it is Nottingham...
<popey> well indeed
<popey> I haven't been to nottingham for ages
<popey> laney and moodoo are very nice people
<DaveBug> popey: Sadly, I work there.
<MartijnVdS> it's only a 2.5 hour drive..
<DaveBug> AlanBell: Aren't you the event organiser? :o)
<AlanBell> I am organising the overall series
<DaveBug> Ahh, gotcha... makes sense.
<AlanBell> but I am not going to every single one
<MartijnVdS> popey: I keep being amazed by the distances in the UK - I can't drive more than 2.5 hours (in one direction) and stay in the Netherlands :)
<AlanBell> do you know the place DaveBug?
<popey> haha
<DaveBug> AlanBell: I know where it is, but I've not been there before.
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> sladen is in nottingham i believe
<popey> might get him along
<DaveBug> It's about a 15 minute walk from work.  I'm trying to persuade some colleagues to come along too.
<MartijnVdS> There are internet celebrities in Nottingham -- periodicvideos / sixtysymbols :)
<mattt> evening
<DaveBug> Oh aye?
<DaveBug> HI mattt
<mattt> howzit dave?
<DaveBug> mattt: All good, ta.
<geekMePlease> Any takers: http://askubuntu.com/questions/71048/unable-to-have-internet-connection-with-huawei-e367-mobile-broadband
<geekMePlease> * I do not know really anymore where to look at
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: popey: above the problem which we have discussed a few times now
<popey> I'll take a look in a bit, I'm a bit busy right at this moment.
<popey> have bookmarked it
<AlanBell> geekMePlease: does it work with 11.04?
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: do not know, do not have 11.04 around anymore
<geekMePlease> * I will google it
<AlanBell> ok, might be good to add to the askubuntu question if you can try from an 11.04 live CD or something
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: It worked in 11.10 beta, but not in release-version
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: Did it already
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: Where can you order CDs of 11.04?
<geekMePlease> they are shipping 11.10 only now
 * popey suspects AlanBell has a few
<AlanBell> you can download them
<AlanBell> or I can send you one
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: I have only x60 at the moment
<geekMePlease> no cd drive
<geekMePlease> no other PCs around, only X60s
<AlanBell> can you prove that the modem is still working?
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: Yes definately
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: did it in the operator's shop
<AlanBell> ok
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: it works with Windows
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<AlanBell> I am shoving in an 11.04 CD with every 11.10 CD
<MartijnVdS> The UUPC music sounds extra tinny from my laptop speakers :)
<tonytiger> :)
<MartijnVdS> sure.. open jpegs using IE in WINE
<MartijnVdS> :(
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E18  Age of Innocence - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/10/26/s04e18-age-of-innocence/
 * awilkins waves at ikonia
<Andres-kain> new podcast? updating gpodder!
<Laney> yeah! nottingham!
<Laney> does anyone remember the heinz exercises advert?
<Laney> i must find it for my sanity, please help
<popey> i do not
<gord> nope, you must be crazy
<Laney> "we must do our exercises, exercises, exercises / we must do our exercises, exercises we must do"
<Laney> argh
<Laney> i swear it existed
<Andres-kain> nope i remember the heinz ketup i like to pour on my grup with bacon and eggs chicken and chips, with 5 different sizes it is the taste passing test get it oooon!
<Andres-kain> *spices
<Andres-kain> *grub?
<Andres-kain> yay! podcast downloaded! something to look forward to.
 * Laney enjoyed the last minute
<Laney> â¥ popeyâ¥
<Laney> those hearts are huge on the ubuntu font
<DaveBug> Laney o/
<MartijnVdS> as are the smiley faces
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> and that look of disapproval :)
<popey> hehe Laney
<DaveBug> The Ubuntu Mono font reminds me of the display font of LocoScript 2.0 on the Amstrad PCW.
<DaveBug> Is that wrong?
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> Wing commander++
<Andres-kain> any of you ever programed in lisp?
<MartijnVdS> Andres-kain: about 3 lines
<DaveBug> Thadly not.
<popey> you talking about the Amstrad PCW remind me of 25 years ago in your house DaveBug
<DaveBug> popey: Aye, can't fault your recall.
 * Laney just searched the previous shout out
<Laney> S03E18, this was S04E18
<Laney> coincidence?
<popey> haha, really?
<Laney> i think NOT
<bigcalm> I am confused
<bigcalm> Who am I?
<Andres-kain> MartijnVds lisp creator dier recently.
<Andres-kain> died*
<Andres-kain> night
<DaveBug> Laney: I understand you're going to Happy Hour?
<Laney> sure
<DaveBug> Awesome, I'll see you there then.
<DaveBug> popey: Did you really say 25 years?
 * popey thinks
<DaveBug> Yes, it would be.
<popey> i was 14 so yeah
<DaveBug> RH merged with YB in '86
<DaveBug> LOL - popey...
<DaveBug> OAMCS.6208
<DaveBug> :o)
<popey> que?
<DaveBug> Oh, I'm surprised... I thought you'd remember that.
<DaveBug> PDP-11 login?
<popey> there was a PDP-11 there!?
<popey> I dont recall that
<DaveBug> At Brooklands, yes
<popey> oh
<popey> no, that was a Prime
<popey> PR1MEOS
<popey> Keith was on that course wasnt he?
<popey> he did the Max Headroom thing
<popey> which spooled out pages and pages from the teletype
<DaveBug> Why did I think that was a PDP-11?
<DaveBug> Unless the UoS had one?
<DaveBug> Yeah, I remember that bit!
<popey> http://wickensonline.co.uk/declegacy/node/47 want
<DaveBug> Oh nice!
<DaveBug> Heh, do you remember that graphics terminal at FC?
<DaveBug> Enormous green screen thing
<popey> Yes
<popey> tektronix
<DaveBug> Blimey
<DaveBug> There's that recall again
<popey> :D
<popey> I'd love a VT100
<popey> on my desk
<DaveBug> I could only ever hope for a clone or emulator.
<mgdm> gordonjcp has or had some PDP kit at once stage, IIRC?
<popey> yeah, I'd want a real one
<popey> years ago they popped up on ebay
<popey> not any more
<gordonjcp> mgdm: yeah
<gordonjcp> PDP11/73
<gordonjcp> the guy who had it first after Aberdeen College of Agriculture had two ADM3A terminals with the Tek-compatible graphics board
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/from_togusa/scaled/dscf0030a.jpg
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/from_togusa/scaled/dscf0046.jpg
<mgdm> I gather that wasn't yesterday? :)
<gordonjcp> naw, about five or six years ago
<gordonjcp> although I was wearing that jumper this evening
 * funkyHat wobbles
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> I love it that the VT100 was introduced in 1978 and the thing I'm typing on just now is emulating it
<gordonjcp> okay, nerdgasm alert
<gordonjcp> it occurs to me that I can use the huge serial analyser I picked up on Sunday to watch the flow of data to my packet modem
<gordonjcp> when it sees the start of a KISS frame, it could pulse its gate pin, triggering the digital storage adaptor to sample the audio out of the modem and show it on the 'scope
<mgdm> I think you need to do Aphex Twin-style embedding of pictures in audio
<AlanBell> !imgabin
<AlanBell> !screenshot
<lubotu3`> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<DaveBug> G'nite all.
<popey> nn DaveBug
<popey> AlanBell: see someone posted rms's ryder
<popey> it's proper lolworthy
<popey> https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html
<AlanBell> http://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html
<popey> i too like chocolate and noodles
<popey> DO NOT MAKE ME CHOOSE A FAVORITE!
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-27
<popey> Morning all!
<popey> also Ugh.
<MartijnVdS> Good morning popey
<DJones> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> woo, old bt mouse still working
<ali1234> british telecom?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: no, it has blue teeth
<BigRedS> It took me way too long to work out what you meant by that
<MartijnVdS> and it's not even Friday!
<MooDoo> morning all
<BigRedS> it isn't? bah :(
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> So.. I need a new disk to store lots of big thingsÂ® (>1TB, photos and music)
<MartijnVdS> I'm looking at 7200 RPM SATA-600 disks.. anything I should look out for?
<MartijnVdS> (as in, "Don't buy brand X" or "Brand Y disks are faster")
<BigRedS> WD & Seagate are traditionally where to look, I think WD are more highly regarded than Seagate these days
<BigRedS> for longevity at least. I don't do speed :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I know, everything will be faster than my current "green" 5400RPM disk
<MartijnVdS> but still!
<oimon> MartijnVdS: where will you backup the disk to?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: my 2TB NAS :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: (same as my current disk)
<oimon> is the correct answer :)
<MartijnVdS> and once I get fibre, that NAS is going to make backups to another NAS at my parents :)
<BigRedS> oimon: no, 'the cloud' is the correct answer
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've used Samsung Spinpoints for years. Very pleased with them.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although they've sold that off to seagate now iiuc
<MartijnVdS> For some reason none of the stores in the area have >1TB disks in stock
<MartijnVdS> I think I'll wait a few weeks/months. The current disk is fine. :)
<bigcalm> Gooooooooooooood morning, here :)
<MartijnVdS> howdy bigcalm
<czajkowski> aloha
<bigcalm> Hiya MartijnVdS & czajkowski :)
<bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, That would be because of the Great Disk Shortage of 2011
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Why?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Thailand flooding?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Big flood. Destroyed  Thailand
<JamesTait> Thoroughly happy Thursday, everyone! :)
<MartijnVdS> Woo autumn photos :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6282743765/in/photostream/lightbox/
<czajkowski> thursday you say *yawns*
<iclebyte> mornin'
 * AlanBell gives up on the Unity switcher and turns on the old compiz one
<bigcalm> It's one of those days where I still haven't decided which IDE to load
<bigcalm> Time for coffee I think
<awilkins> Hmmph. The disk crisis has pushed prices up something mental
<awilkins> The sweetspot for SATA drives seems to have moved up to somewhere around 2.5TB
<awilkins> Which cost Â£20 more than the 1TB ones at the moment... wonder how long that will last
<bigcalm> There's a crisis?
<DJones> China Crisis?
<MooDoo> Time Crisis?
<bigcalm> Time Crisis 2?
<bigcalm> Jinx
<bigcalm> ish
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> Spent far too much of my time and money on that game during my college days
<iclebyte> bigcalm, you missed the point of college.
<iclebyte> mine was spent on beer and looking at unachievable women.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> awilkins: There was a 15-20% jump on Monday
<bigcalm> iclebyte: I also spent far too much time and money in the local pubs during my college days
<daubers> (wholesale)
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<awilkins> daubers, More that that, I remember 1TB drives being about Â£64 incVAT
<daubers> awilkins: Sorry, that's wholesale (what we buy them at at work) obviously retail ones will go higher still
<awilkins> Now they are in the Â£90 region
<awilkins> Grr.
<daubers> awilkins: We spent about 50-60k on drives last week to try and weather this out :)
<awilkins> Just as I was thinking of building a new MythTV box ( hi there ikonia !! :) )
<ali1234> so what happened then?
<awilkins> A flood destroyed 1/3rd of the worlds hard drive production in Thailand
<ali1234> i see
<daubers> Flooding in thailand has destroyed western digi plants and hitachi plants
<daubers> also, 75% of the motors used in HDD's were produced there
<bigcalm> Ah
<MartijnVdS> daubers: ouch
<awilkins> Ah, that's rather more serious then
<bigcalm> Indeed
<daubers> WD reckon they'll have their plant running at some capacity by feb/march
<oimon> anyone else dicsovered big issues since upgrading thunderbird? i get 5 second lag when typing plain text email
<daubers> hitachi will probably be similar
<Dave2> a/sb end
<awilkins> So drives for the immediate future are going to be expensive, and crap (non-optimized production lines making components they previously didn't)
<daubers> Yup
<MartijnVdS> so.. switch to Seagate?
<daubers> awilkins: Moral of the story is, ssd's might suddenly become more popular
<czajkowski> gah VLC you will be the death of me
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Seagate will go up too, as they won't be able to ramp up production enough to fill the gap
<czajkowski> keeps flipping crashing and stopping and no sound mid way
<awilkins> daubers, The SSD pricing is already getting to the point where I'd get one for a main system drive
<MartijnVdS> I want 1TB or larger SSD
<MartijnVdS> + affordable
<awilkins> daubers, But I still need large drives for my gaming habit
<daubers> awilkins: Yeah, I almost bought one for my laptop, but bike test next month means no moneys
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Would you like a pony with that?
<MartijnVdS> jpds: Yes please. And the moon. On a stick.
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I just had a delivery of 600GB ones, only about Â£700 a piece I think
<MartijnVdS> daubers: getting there, but not quite :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: your UTF-8 is broken (you're sending Latin1)
<daubers> Hmmm? It's whatever xchat is set to
<bigcalm> Hybrid
<awilkins> It's set in the server prefs
<awilkins> The default for "Ubuntu Server" appears to be UTF-8
 * awilkins is surprised and also incredulous - â½
<daubers> Mine was indeed set to Hybrid
<awilkins> What is Hybrid ... it's not even on my list (xchat-gnome)
<bigcalm> popey: got a moment to look at something for me?
<bigcalm> I really should see a doctor, but I'm lazy
 * Laney wolf whistles
<bigcalm> awilkins: it's listed as IRC (Latin/Unicode Hybrid)
<bigcalm> YMMV in xchat-gnome
<awilkins> bigcalm, It doesn't seem available. Hooray for progress :)
<bigcalm> *shrug*
<popey> bigcalm: wassup?
<bigcalm> Aha
<nubae> Join #ltsp
<MartijnVdS> nubae: you need to add a / in front of that :)
<nubae> yes i know :-) slip of the hand
<BigRedS> ah, that reminds me. I'm after a windows terminal server-alike way of getting at a remote ubuntu machine
<BigRedS> pointedly, with a desktop matching the resolution of the *client* rather than the server
<BigRedS> and I can't seem to find one
<nubae> BigRedS, ummm  can u explain that a bit better, its slightly confusing
<nubae> in linux we have LTSP linux terminal server
<nubae> in windows,  citrix, or if u want to go that way AD (LDAP)
<oimon> BigRedS: i like freenx.
<nubae> either way what do u want to run on the clients, linux or windows?
<oimon> you can suspend sessions and use ssl certs for access..and it's SUPER fast
<nubae> thats not quite the same as a terminal system
<BigRedS> nubae: er, clients will be debian or ubuntu
<nubae> then my suggestion, run ltsp, even if its off a windows virtualised partition
<BigRedS> ltsp off windows? hm?
 * BigRedS wanders off to look at ltsp
<nubae> What would be better is a dedicated LTSP server of course
<BigRedS> no it wouldn't
<nubae> but i suppose u need the windows server for something
<BigRedS> I basically want VNC but I want to view the remote desktop at the resolution of the local monitor
<nubae> then oimon is right, run freenx
<AlanBell> BigRedS: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15816/changing-the-resolution-of-a-vnc-session-in-linux
<nubae> ltsp is probably too much too soon for you
<nubae> or vmware or virtualbox
<BigRedS> ltsp just looks like it's solving a different problem
<BigRedS> virtualbox?
<nubae> both do full screen
<nubae> yes oracles version of vmware
<nubae> opensource version
<BigRedS> no, I know what it is
<BigRedS> I just don't understand how it helps
<oimon> btw freenx does not show the desktop like VNC, it allows multiple resumable sessions at the display res you choose
<nubae> right
<nubae> he doesnt want vnc i dont think
<nubae> think of the latency
<nubae> multiple vnc sessions at once
<nubae> gah
<oimon> oof
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/4zuLKh5Zz4Et4OrRcrIl94
<oimon> allows choice of DE and screen res.
<BigRedS> I have a PC on my desk with a biggish monitor, and another in another room with a diddy monitor on it. I'd like to connect to it with a big monitor, basically.
<BigRedS> it's all on the same gigE net so latency's really not likely to be a problem. I'm pondering bodging a length of cat5 into a vga cable...
<nubae> ummmm...
<MartijnVdS> HDMI-over-Cat5e extender? :)
<nubae> and what do both systems run?
<nubae> windows?
<BigRedS> no
<BigRedS> they're both ubuntu
<BigRedS> well, there's a debian client, too, but I don't really midn what I use
<nubae> so just do a ssh -X
<BigRedS> I imagine the client is the easy bit
<BigRedS> yeah, that had ocurred to me, I just assumed there was some more, er, pretty way
<AlanBell> BigRedS: check out xpra as well
<nubae> whats unpretty about that? u can always write a script to make it pretty
<AlanBell> then you can move running apps between machines
<dwatkins> BigRedS: you mean have the monitors next to each other, or mirror the image to them both? You can send VGA over CAT5 if you really want.
<BigRedS> Nah, I want to have almost exactly VNC, but have the remote desktop be dictated by the resolution of the client's. Or be arbitrary
<BigRedS> and I assumed there'd be some sort of even-my-dad-could-do-it methd which I could try, and file some bugs about or something
<nubae> have u looked at vinagre?
<nubae> its a vnc alternative
<BigRedS> AlanBell: Oooh, that looks like fun
<nubae> it might allow for that
<BigRedS> it's a vnc client isn't it?
<oimon> is xpra like synergy?
<oimon> !info xpra
<lubotu3`> xpra (source: parti-all): X Persistent Remote Applications. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.6-0ubuntu10 (natty), package size 41 kB, installed size 264 kB
<nubae> it is, but its a really good one
<dwatkins> BigRedS: you mean remote control VNC or join-together-two-machines VNC like with Synergy+?
<BigRedS> I like the "So basically it's screen for remote X apps. " from their site
<BigRedS> remote control
<dwatkins> x11vnc?
<nubae> if u are going vnc route choose vinagre
<dwatkins> I use that to grab the existing display (i.e. VGA console) of my server and continue with existing apps, as opposed to starting a new X session on a virtual display number.
<BigRedS> almost exactly the 'remote desktop connection' thing that ubuntu ships with, or tightvnc or whatever, but where I get a desktop whose resolution matches my monitor, not that of the server
<nubae> trust me
<MartijnVdS> vinagre++
<MartijnVdS> nubae: except it doesn't talk to realvnc servers (on windows)
<MartijnVdS> I just get "Connection closed"
<nubae> yreah but he wants ubuntu to ubuntu
<BigRedS> I thought vinagre was just a vnc client? Can the client set the resolution? I assumed that was down to the server
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: the client can scale down
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: (or up) as necessary
<dwatkins> There used to be a way to have persistent virtual VNC sessions.
<dwatkins> I've done it on SLES before, where you can log back in to server:11 and still have your apps there
<dwatkins> (11 being arbirtary)
<dwatkins> (perhaps even arbitrary, too)
<oimon> i even find VNC sucks a bit on the LAN too
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, i've got scaling, but that's just done by making the pixels bigger :)
<BigRedS> yeah, it's not great. I used to do a boatload of support by vncing over a lan...
<nubae> yep, which is why real pros use ltsp ;-) :p
<BigRedS> I must've completely misunderstood what ltsp is
<popey> BigRedS: you're not pro :D
<BigRedS> popey: Good lord no! I've seen professionalism and I don't like it :)
<nubae> it'll take while to sink in... but its a terminal server
<popey> "Not for me!"
<nubae> ie clients are just dummy clients
<BigRedS> nubae: yeah, it's basically citrix for linux isn't it? I don't get how that helps with VNCing to workstations
<bigcalm> Sounds like my work
<BigRedS> but that's mostly besides the point. I don't deal with things that have mice any more generally :)
<nubae> u wouldnt need to
<nubae> u install ltsp on the computer with small monitor
<nubae> then u do a session from big monitor one
<BigRedS> and I can still log in locally to the diddy one?
<BigRedS> I suppose at worst I'd just need to initate a session to localhost presumably
<nubae> getting everythin running smooth as hell from ltsp session
<nubae> sure u Â¡can set up fat clients in ltsp
<nubae> and anywya it goes by accounts
<nubae> ie... ever user has their own account so u set one up for diddy
<nubae> and one for biggy
<BigRedS> but I want the same desktop on both
<nubae> even easier
<nubae> login with diddy on both
<nubae> whatever what u hack it there's a solution
<nubae> go read up on ltsp first
<BigRedS> haha, yeah. I was just hoping for a more, er, simple one :)
<nubae> think there is a primer somewhere
<nubae> well ull learn a hell of a lot
<nubae> and its stuff worth learning
<nubae> u might finally understand how linux really works ;-)
<BigRedS> Nah, I get enough of that in the day really
<BigRedS> I'm trying quite hard to be a normal user when I get home :)
<nubae> either way setting it up is a 3 step process
<nubae> its easy
<BigRedS> cool. I'll have a faff next time I manage to get annoyed at screen resolutions :) ta
<nubae> its just the internals which are fascinating and cool
<BigRedS> can the internals be easily avoided?
<gordonjcp> internals of what?
<BigRedS> ltsp
<BigRedS> I just want to press 'go' and have the thing work
<gordonjcp> oh, that stuff
<BigRedS> it does graphics, graphics scare me
<gordonjcp> isn't it just vnc with some extra bumf stuck on?
<BigRedS> probably. All I want is VNC where the resolution is dictated by that of the client rather than the server
<BigRedS> I think I might just accept the scaling and be done with it
<gordonjcp> I don't ge tthe point of that
<BigRedS> depends how bored/annoyed I get
<gordonjcp> surely that's what X is for?
<BigRedS> yeah, that was my first thought. Here's a chance to learn X, run an X client on one machine and an X server on the other
<BigRedS> and then I remembered about X and thought that that's just a way to get really irritated
<ali1234> why don';t you just use X?
<ali1234> it's much easier to use than VNC
<gordonjcp> well yeah, but if you're using X to begin with you may as well just tunnel it over ssh and save yourself the bother
<ali1234> VNC never works right
<nubae> ssh -X
<nubae> never fails
<ali1234> i have never seen it fail
<nubae> thast by fair the easiest solution
<ali1234> even when the local X server is completely messed up, ssh -X localhost always seems to work
<jpds> xpra++
<jpds> Much better than ssh -X
<BigRedS> it was more that I was expecting the built in clicky way of doing it to work and when it didn't I wondered if there was some other method I could use that would also be appropriate for pointing other people at
<ali1234> it's also very handy for when you added yourself to a group and don't want to logout
<AlanBell> !info openerp-client
<lubotu3`> openerp-client (source: openerp-client): Enterprise Resource Management (client). In component universe, is optional. Version 5.0.14-1 (natty), package size 529 kB, installed size 2896 kB
<AlanBell> yay, nobody got round to updating it :)
<ali1234> xpra has all the same flaws that VNC has
<jpds> ali1234: Such as?
<ali1234> such as it reduces everything to bitmaps
<ali1234> and presumably has no encryption
<jpds> ali1234: xpra can use SSH.
<jpds> xpra attach ssh:IP.address:1
<ali1234> yeah, well, you can tunnel vnc through ssh as well, if you screw around with it long enough
<jpds> But, yeah; in my experience xpra isn't anywhere near as latent as ssh -X.
<oimon> is it weird that the postoffice owners were burning joss sticks in the shop today? it was a bit overpowering and nauseating
<bigcalm> Maybe they have egg sandwiches for lunch
<daubers> bigcalm: Now I'm even hungrier
<oimon> it was 9am, just opened
<oimon> massive queue of OAPs at 9.01
<daubers> "When I was a lad this was all post offices as far as the eye can see"?
<DJones> oimon: Were the the post office owners Hindu by any chance, I think today it a major celebration (Dewali) for them
<oimon> ah, possibly
<oimon> lots of fireworks last night
<DJones> Whoever was talking about the HDD prices & flooding destroying/damaging factories cause shortages http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/10/27/wd_lake_3.jpg
<oimon> reading RMS "rider" of requirements confirm my suspicions that he is an aspie https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html
<gordonjcp> s/aspie/arsehat/
<gordonjcp> ftfy
<ali1234> where's the list part?
<oimon> well, it explains why he acts like he does, and can't help it
<ali1234> "I do not eat breakfast.  Please do not ask me any questions about what I will do breakfast.  Please just do not bring it up."
<ali1234> lol
<gordonjcp> oimon: because he's a total dick?
<oimon> gordonjcp: no. he might act like one, but if he has aspergers it explains his behaviour
<gordonjcp> with the social skills of a telephone pole?
<gordonjcp> pff
<gordonjcp> I'm inclined to disagree
<gordonjcp> there are plenty of people with Aspergers who are not self-important pricks
<oimon> people with aspie syndrome generally don't get made spokesman for a company
<oimon> for good reason
<ali1234> here's the thing
<oimon> he is delivering the conditions for relating to him and accomodating him
<oimon> he needs a PR person for his outbursts
<popey> he needs to step down
<gordonjcp> he needs to shut the hell up
<ali1234> all you people need to stop complaining about RMS and take a look at yourselves
<gordonjcp> and stop making ridiculous demands in his rider
<ali1234> i don't see him making any ridiculous demands
<ali1234> i see *you* making ridiculous demands about what he must do
<gordonjcp> ffs, notable dickheads Oasis don't have as much arseholery in their rider
<oimon> really? they walk off stage rather easily. that is due to ego though
<ali1234> if you don't like it you are free to not ask him to come and talk at your event
<kvarley> gordonjcp:Watch your language please.
<gordonjcp> oimon: right, but their rider is rather less rectocranially-orientated
<gordonjcp> oimon: if rms walked off stage mid-blether it could only be an improvement
<ali1234> "A microphone is desirable if the room is large.  No other facilities are needed."
<gordonjcp> at least you might miss him singing
<ali1234> so unreasonable
<ali1234> how could we ever accomodate such incredible requests such as the availability of a microphone at a lecture?
<ali1234> it's simply impossible i tell you
<gordonjcp> ali1234: look at his demands for internet connectivity, then
<popey> it doesnt strike me as unreasonable
<popey> none of it is unreasonable. it's quirky
<ali1234> none of it is unreasonable, and most of it probably exists because at some time in the past, someone asked him
<ali1234> and so it got added to the list
<gordonjcp> popey: his big long list of stuff he won't eat is fairly unreasonable
<ali1234> that's where riders come from, all of them
<oimon> do you agree that he is probably aspie though?
<gordonjcp> he did that when he came to glasgow, demanded fed and then refused to eat anywhere we suggested
<gordonjcp> oimon: no
<oimon> ali?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i don't think you can make a medical diagnosis based on such little evidence
<oimon> i am usually right in my diagnoses
<oimon> i know quite a few
<gordonjcp> so do I, so do most of us
<gordonjcp> in my limited experience of clinical psychology I'd guess he probably is a *little* to the aspie end of the spectrum but that is mostly overridden by his vastly overinflated pompous ego
<gordonjcp> from my experience I find that people with aspergers tend to have rather better manners than rms exhibits
<oimon> nobody can claim they weren't told of his requirements :)
<gordonjcp> even if they are a bit odd in their social contact
<popey> oimon: i would be surprised if he wasn't aspie
<oimon> maybe they could fork the FSF
<ali1234> so his entirely unreasonable demands relating to internet connection consists of: a secure internet connection where ssh works
<oimon> and a bit more
<awilkins> "Meetina a sad parrot is not an agreeable surprise"
<awilkins> I don't think that's unreasonable, even it's a bit odd to state it up dront
<oimon> nothing to ID him, no proxy, hotel doesn't ask for passport, nothing wireless,..
<awilkins> And my typing is very off today
<ali1234> the only possible reason that entire paragraph could be in there is because one time someone did exactly that
<awilkins> Quite possibly
<popey> indeed, the whole document smacks of lots of notes made after individual failures
<oimon> he feels compelled to validate everything (except breakfast)
<ali1234> popey: exactly my reading of it
<ali1234> like i said, that's where *all* those crazy rock'n'roll riders come from
<oimon> he could just say, don't buy me a parrot...or not mention the parrot thing at all
<popey> i think you're overanalysing it :D
<oimon> this document  explains him more than any interview
<ali1234> it doesn't say "don't buy me a parrot"
<ali1234> it says "don't buy a parrot (for yourself) to try to impress me"
<oimon> oh yeah
<gordonjcp> yeah, I mean he wants to stay in a hotel that won't ask for a credit card or any form of ID
<gordonjcp> good luck with that
<awilkins> He prefers to stay with private individuals
<awilkins> One of my colleagues saw him leaving Leeds train station when he came to give a talk here.
<ali1234> i've never needed anything other than the WPA key in any hotel i've ever been in
<ali1234> and the key is usually the name of the hotel or something silly like that
 * Laney is enjoying the quiz
<ali1234> of course it usually doesn't work properly, because wireless is a bit rubbish like that
<popey> :D
<oimon> on the continent , ID cards are typical so they would expect a passport to be shown to stay at a hotel. i had trouble visiting a client at a bank because they wanted my passport, and i'd left it at the hotel
<Laney> i think i know what is officially supported
<popey> yeah, I thought I did too! :D
<Laney> don't want to say
<awilkins> I'm recognizing lots of my own traits in here, to be honest
<awilkins> So pretty aspie
<oimon> everyone has particular likes and dislikes. and i assume he is single, so used to getting his own way. however he is quite extreme on the spectrum
<awilkins> Although I'm more socially adjusted than this... but I haven't lived at MIT for most of my life
<oimon> and you don't eat your feet in front of an audience
<oimon> i hope
<Laney> yay, i was right
<awilkins> Nope
<Laney> "what is on ports.ubuntu.com" was my guide
 * oimon remembered every dr who except for the current one :-\
<MooDoo> oimon: why not the current one?
<oimon> couldn't remember his surname
<awilkins> "Smith"
<oimon> AKA chinhead
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> mike smith right?
<awilkins> Matt Smith
 * oimon wonders who matt baker is
<ali1234> who am i thinking of?
<MooDoo> oimon: the one show
<oimon> LOL..probably influenced by 2 other dr's
<MooDoo> oimon: he's also on country file
<Myrtti> PSA: Adobe has -50% off from Lightroom today if you get it from their site. Not strictly Ubuntu news, but thought someone might be interested
<ali1234> what's lightroom?
<MooDoo> Myrtti: already have it :D
<MooDoo> ali1234: windows version of darktables
<ali1234> is it photoshop?
<Myrtti> MooDoo: or mac
<MooDoo> photography work flow solution
<MooDoo> ali1234: no
<ali1234> why would i want it then?
<MooDoo> ali1234: no editing, but you can do a hell of a lot with it
<awilkins> More for pro photographers, isn't it
<MooDoo> awilkins: nope not really, anyone can use it :
<MooDoo> brilliant for catalogin
<awilkins> I go for the "big folder" method
<MooDoo> ie everyting in one folder?
<MooDoo> well i think it's interesting Myrtti thanks, although i already am a user :)
<ali1234> Â£1,509 for CS production :(
<MooDoo> worth it though if you're into all that :)
<ali1234> no it isn't
<MooDoo> why not?
<awilkins> I seem to be channeling Stallman now in my latest email to boss about why phone conferences are not useful to me for discussing technical issues
<awilkins> Always a risk when I read an extended section of prose ... absorb it's personality
<ali1234> wow, if you buy photoshop, after effect, and illustrator separately it costs Â£2000
<oimon> awilkins: i started doing it too!
<oimon> i wrote about what happened when a user demanded admin rights on a pc
<MooDoo> ali1234: that's why it's better to buy production
<ali1234> they are basically paying you Â£500 to take a free copy of flash :)
<oimon> went on a rant, and had to delete it as a tangent
<ali1234> hey, if you go through the business site, it;s Â£100 less
<oimon> and the edu site..even better
<jacobw2> Afternoon
<MooDoo> afternoon
<popey> oooo better sandy bridge support in linux 3.1
<popey> wonder if that means minecraft will work properly on my i7 now
 * popey pokes gord and ali1234 who know about these things
<awilkins> popey, Isn't Minecraft support more to do with OpenGL drivers?
<ali1234> i don't know anything about it
<gordonjcp> I bet there were at least two people pretty much as influential in Free software as rms at Oggcamp
<gordonjcp> imagine if we all presented riders like that
<ali1234> yeah right
<ali1234> who?
<gordonjcp> I don't know
<ali1234> i mean, if you include people who are a bad influence, and just want to compromise the ideals to get short term success, then maybe
<gordonjcp> lol
<popey> heh
<gordonjcp> ali1234: back under your bridge, you ;-)
 * gordonjcp -> food
<popey> hah!
<jacobw2> minecraft doesn't work on your i7?
<awilkins> What's better, BTW, i5 or i7?
<awilkins> I hate this modern trend for model numbers not meaning ANYTHING
<awilkins> I get why they do it instead of model names ; you think "Celeron - inferior"
<awilkins> But I just think i3 ? i5 ? i7 ? My brain hurts
<jacobw2> ha, "celeron.. inferior" is my thought process exactly.
<popey> it is what you think it is
<popey> jacobw2: it works but the graphics corrupt
 * awilkins just thinks the processor with the most L2 cache is the best these days
 * GirlyGirl wonders what's up with the linux folk and minecraft
<jacobw2> minecrack
<popey> hmm?
<MooDoo> GirlyGirl: ti's a good program :D
<awilkins> It's one of the games that ought to run as well on Linux as Windows.... and it also appeals to the mindset that Linux appeals to as well
<awilkins> You can make of the game what you want of it, as long as you have the skill
<jacobw2> i've still not tried it
<RhysMorgan> Afternoon All
<RhysMorgan> HOw can I get apt to use a proxy which requires domain level authentication?
<RhysMorgan> I have tried export http_proxy=http://domain\user:pass@proxy:port/
 * awilkins has not reached the Minecraft Event Horizon where you get good enough to be really drawn into it
<RhysMorgan> but that doesn;t seem to work
<awilkins> RhysMorgan, ISA server? NTLM auth?
<RhysMorgan> awilkins,
<RhysMorgan> awilkins, yes
<awilkins> RhysMorgan, One of the more successful approaches I've tried is ntlmaps
<popey> +1
<popey> i use that too
<popey> works _brilliantly_
<awilkins> It's a python proxy server that does the auth for you
<awilkins> And you connect programs to that
<RhysMorgan> Will take a look thankyou
<popey> i have to use it at work to get a stupid java download tool working through the stupid proxy
<awilkins> The more secure NTLM config that's becoming more prevalent needs you to tweak the default config from just LM to LM & NT though
<awilkins> It locked me out of the domain yesterday because I hadn't done that
<awilkins> It was the first time I had used it in a while
<awilkins> The other thing I do for the office proxy is open an SSH tunnel to my router at home and put everything over SOCKS
<popey> yeah, i do that too
<RhysMorgan> It would be nice if Ubuntu had an OS level way of setting the proxy like on mac
<awilkins> I hate bloody ISA server configured to do NTLM
<popey> it does
<awilkins> RhysMorgan, It does, but alas, it's not the best design I can think of
<popey> some apps dont respect it
 * popey coughs Ubuntu One
<awilkins> Heh, yes
<popey> although thats on the plan for this cycle
<RhysMorgan> lol, oversight?
<awilkins> And if you use a PAC script, it just passes the URL to the application
<popey> its because the vast majority of free software developers dont sit behind a proxy
<awilkins> I think that's mental
<RhysMorgan> and apt doesn;t respect that?
<popey> if they did they'd realise what a massive pain in the arse it is
<popey> it does
<BigRedS> RhysMorgan: its be good if it was possible to have them ignore it, too :)
<awilkins> Does apt understand PAC scripts?
<popey> no
<awilkins> I use a PAC script, my browsers understand it, but apt / update-manager don't
<popey> misunderstood
<awilkins> Thinking about it, it would be better if the OS just provided a local proxy if you used a PAC script
<awilkins> Even better for the apps that can't use a SOCKS proxy
<awilkins> Previously I thought it would just be great if the OS supplied libproxy support
<awilkins> So if you have a PAC script rather than passing the script URI to applications asking for proxy, it just starts a proxy server and passes it's local URI
<RhysMorgan> Sounds like an RFE in the making :P
<popey> i never use pac scripts I just look for the proxy server address and use that
<popey> pac scripts are for windows users, not me
<awilkins> popey, I use PAC scripts because I move the machine between networks
<RhysMorgan> You should see the size of the pac script used where I am working at the moment
<popey> so do i
<awilkins> popey, I guess we just have different tolerances for reconfiguring things
<awilkins> I use the PAC script for browsing, and tsocks for other things
<popey> heh
<popey> yeah
<awilkins> I don't even think Empathy does PAC scripts
<awilkins> Probably not Gwibber either
<RhysMorgan> My window title bars have all just disappeared :O
<jacobw2> if its useful, Empathy won't do it
<awilkins> I install Pidgin for this purpose because it's awkward to start Empathy with tsocks
<awilkins> But this kind of thing is why GNU/Linux distributions are perceived as not ready for Enterprise (tm)
<awilkins> Really, all the default apps should support the full gamut of proxy features
<oimon> has anyone successfully stripped DRM from a kindle file? some of my books are >50 years old, i would want my ebooks to last that long. and the only way i can assure that is by ensuring they will work in future ebook readers before investing in them
<BigRedS> awilkins: it's the rules: wait until it's nearly ready, then start working on a replacement
<BigRedS> oimon: I haven't, but I know several people who have
<oimon> BigRedS: good answer :) it's prob legal for books we own
<BigRedS> I doubt it :(
<BigRedS> but yeah, not me guv. honest!
<ali1234> i have stripped drm from an ebook that was compatible with the kindle, but it wasn't in kindle format
<ali1234> i can't remember what format it was in
<oimon> i just discovered that there are ebook lending libraries
<oimon> however they have limited copies of books
<oimon> and it's mainly Z-list biogs
<awilkins> Yeah, they are allowed to lend each eBook about 20 times because that's how long it takes to wear out a paper one
<ali1234> i was looking in the kindle "blogs" section
<ali1234> it's like 75% erotic fiction
<ali1234> i was shocked
<ali1234> i did not expect this
<awilkins> Which is nuts - hey, let's take one of the major selling points of electronic media, and make sure we completely negate it!
<oimon> http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries#London
<awilkins> I'm also shocked by the stats on how long it takes to wear out paper books
<awilkins> Are people really that careless?
<ali1234> does kindle support epub?
 * oimon used to work in a library
<ali1234> if it does, that's probably what format it was
<oimon> ali1234: no. despite epub being the digital book standard
<awilkins> oimon, Do they use kippers for bookmarks, or something?
<ali1234> oh it was a .mobi format
<oimon> kindle supports that
<ali1234> yeah
<oimon> i hated getting the returned books with sticky covers
<oimon> now i have a kid, i love the ability to get childrens books from teh library.
<awilkins> I have very fond memories of my weekly trip to the library with mother
<oimon> as an adult i'd only use it othrewise if ebook lending was widespread
<awilkins> They are closing our local library. Which was a pale shadow of the library back home anyway.
<awilkins> I'd suggest making it into an ebook library with a cafe, but that would be scuppered by the need for a reader.
<awilkins> And the publishers, who don't actually want you to have ebooks
<DJones> oimon: I worked/volunteered in a library as well, didn't get paid, just did it because I loved reading & it got me all the latestest books before they went on the shelves
<oimon> my sister used to work for a publisher. a huge cost goes into the cover design and printing and binding. they are ripping off consumers of ebooks
<oimon> "Kindle Format 8 will replace the existing Mobi format Amazon used previously" wonder if that means what i think it means
<oimon> i hate being tied into kindle
<oimon> but wifey has one
<RhysMorgan> I refuse to buy a kindle, although I think they have come up with a great concept, as always it's marred by vendor lock-ins
<oimon> if only epub worked on it
<RhysMorgan> I'm still searching for a decent solution for the iPad that I can use in conjunction with dropbox
<BigRedS> I'm using a kindle without any vendor lockin
<BigRedS> I've not bought anything from amazon
<BigRedS> I just feed it free (and, er, 'freed') ebooks
<oimon> which format do you use? or convert with calibre?
<RhysMorgan> But doesn't that negate the "think of it and start reading in 30 seconds" concept?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> oimon: I have, er, friends that send stuff to me
<BigRedS> I've ignored most of the details
<BigRedS> mobis I think
<RhysMorgan> It would be cool if like the cydia idea you could direct a kindle at a secondary repository
<oimon> i understand kindle allows 14 day lending - anyone tried it?
<oimon> my mum has loads of books on her kindle and i want to read some
<oimon> without changing accounts et
<Monsterwizard> I still use a sony e-reader
<Monsterwizard> I hate DRM
<RhysMorgan> Has anyone got an ipad and found a decent solution?
<RhysMorgan> I tend to use my advent vega and use aldiko when I want to read
<oimon> !info calibre
<lubotu3`> calibre (source: calibre): e-book converter and library management. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.7.44+dfsg-1build1 (natty), package size 9311 kB, installed size 34012 kB
<oimon> The latest release of calibre is 0.8.23..looks for ppa
<jacobw2> lbotu is looking at natty
<oimon> jacobw arrgh i thought they fixed that
<oimon> newer calibre on lucid is a dependency beast
<oimon> due to python2.7.1 and qt reqs
<MartijnVdS> 3
<MartijnVdS> 3   `
<MartijnVdS> oops, sorry about those
<jacobw2> 3?
<RhysMorgan> I thought it was 42?
<MartijnVdS> laptop came back from suspend with half-open connections :)
<MartijnVdS> 3 + 3 = 4 + 2
<oimon> total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached / Mem:       1016384     963328      53056          0       5260     848048 /Swap:      1036284    1036284          0
<oimon> think i need to change my swappiness?
<oimon> 850MB in RAM cache but 1GB swap used.
<oimon> xorg seems to be very leaky in xfce
<MartijnVdS> oimon: depends on how often you used the in-swap data
<oimon> let's say the machine wasn't very responsive :)
<RhysMorgan> Why is it after an apt-get upgrade my grub screen now says Debian?
<oimon> i wonder what PPAs you have on your machine RhysMorgan
<RhysMorgan> all ubuntu natty
<RhysMorgan> += jdownloader && natty
<gord> rms sure is an odd ball https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html
<denny> heyla.  I had to install a fresh 11.10 system recently after I fried my existing system...  I'm having trouble getting DVDs to play.  I followed all the instructions/links I got fed by Totem and by Google and installed various 'bad/ugly/etc' packages, and ran the decss.sh or whatever it's called, but still no go.  Interestingly, VLC does play them (but the audio sync is out).  Any thoughts?
<oimon> gord: scrollback to discussion at 11.37 this morning :P
<DJones> AlanBell: Is this anything you need to be concerned about http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2011/10/introduction-of-usage-limits-to-maps.html IFrom memory, doesn't the ubuntu-uk map use the google api
<DJones> It was linked from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/27/google_maps_api_no_longer_free/
<AlanBell> DJones: isn't that old news?
<DJones> AlanBell: I don't know, I only just saw it on the register front page, it could well be old new thats coming into effect
<AlanBell> ok, it is a new change, but we won't be getting anything like 25,000 hits per day
<ali1234> i thought the gmap died?
<ali1234> why is it even using google instead of OSM?
<AlanBell> show me how to do that with OSM and I totally will do it
<ali1234> what does it do? just draw pins on a map of the UK?
<AlanBell> the map on Launchpad died because if you want to use https (which launchpad does) then you can't embed a map without paying lots
<AlanBell> ali1234: and allows people to place their own pin
<AlanBell> without knowing their latitude and longitude
<ali1234> is there a kml file somewhere then?
<jacobw2> gord: wow
<AlanBell> ali1234: http://ubuntu-uk.org/?ajax_map&action=132
<gordonjcp> pfft, paranoid Ubuntu battery monitor
<gordonjcp> "Low" isn't 20 minutes left, low is 20 seconds left
<dogmatic69> i have seen on the web at some point you can use apt-get <something> to output a list of apps installed and then run apt-get <somethingelse> on another server and its all installed. anyone have an idea?
<oimon> dogmatic69: it was mentioned on UUPC not so long ago
<AlanBell> dpkg --get-selections | grep '[[:space:]]install$'| awk '{print $1}' > installedpackages
<oimon> AlanBell: there's a better one
<AlanBell> you can do something with dpkg --set-selections
<BigRedS> well, you feed set-selections the output of --get-selections
<oimon> i think it was popey who explained why there was a better alternative
<oimon> something to do with dependencies
<AlanBell> dpkg --get-selections >packages.txt
<AlanBell> dpkg --set-selections <packages.txt
<BigRedS> but you lose the manual/automatic flags on the packages and I can't remember how you're now supposed to do it
<oimon> yeah that was it
<AlanBell> then sudo apt-get dselect-upgrade
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: so just those 3? 1) on first server 2) and 3) on new server?
<AlanBell> yeah, I think so
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah
<dogmatic69> cool, thanks
<dogmatic69> will try it now
<daubers> Ooooooh coffee time
<AlanBell> what is hadoop for?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: distributed computing?
<BigRedS> that's about the limit of my depth of understanding of it, though
<AlanBell> yeah, I get that bit, and I know what map-reduce is, just have no idea who would want to use it
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Hadoop
<MartijnVdS> Hadoop = amazing
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: that's a bit of a vague description :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's a framework for applying map/reduce on massive datasets (distributed across lots of machines)
<AlanBell> yeah, why would I want to do that?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Say you have several million phone call records, and you want to generate a bill, one for each calling number
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you could just loop over the millions of records, and wait a long time
<MartijnVdS> but using map/reduce, you chop up the data across multiple machines, create a mapping (number, price) for each record
<MartijnVdS> then reduce -> sum everything with the same number up
<MartijnVdS> so you end up with lots of number -> total_price
<MartijnVdS> and it scales up with more hardware, instead of "heavier" hardware (faster CPU etc.)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or, say, indexing the web
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MapReduce
<AlanBell> ok
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sk7cOqB9Dk
<MartijnVdS> ^ on-line checkout IRL :)
<oimon> am i just unlucky or does everyone have to do the u1sdtool -d /-c /-s dance to actually get/send files via ubuntu one?
<NET||abuse> hi guys. i was trying to run a little virtual machine setup, using cloudmin on ubuntu, and to run a setup from an ubuntu 11.10 iso unattended?
<NET||abuse> is it possible?
<BigRedS> I probably wont know the answer, but I can't find the question in that.
<BigRedS> ah! Well, preseeding's been around for ever. which is possible but fiddly
<NET||abuse> well, it won't install from the default ubuntu 11.10 amd64  server edition iso
<NET||abuse> so , yeh, how can i get the install to run unatended
<BigRedS> here end my knowledge, though. there's probably a more cloudy way of doing it
<NET||abuse> possibly
<kirrus> NET||abuse: there's this in the documentation on preseeding: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/appendix-preseed.html
<kirrus> Dunno if that helps or not
<BigRedS> actually, there's that virt-<something> that builds images for you
<BigRedS> that's what yout want
<BigRedS> but I can't remember its name
<NET||abuse> ooh, sounds good
<BigRedS> NET||abuse: I think this is what I was thinking about: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
<danfish> hello hello
<danfish> in the venerable UUPC podcasty thing popey mentioned a commandline util to enable wake on lan
<danfish> anyone remember it?
<MartijnVdS> danfish:
<MartijnVdS> powerwake - remotely wake a napping system
<MartijnVdS> wakeonlan - Sends 'magic packets' to wake-on-LAN enabled ethernet adapters
<popey> etherwake
<MartijnVdS> one of those?
<danfish> tx - but I think it was a command to enable the wake on lan on the remote system - or is that a bios only thing?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: it's a bios thing
<daubers> danfish: Sometimes you can do it using ethtool
<daubers> As you might need to enable it on the card (As well as the bios)
<MartijnVdS> ethtool -s eth0 wol g
<MartijnVdS> ^ wakes up on "magic packet"
<MartijnVdS> ethtool -s eth0 wol s
<MartijnVdS> ^ wakes up on "magic packet" with password (might not be supported)
<MartijnVdS> ethtool -s eth0 sopass foo
<MartijnVdS> ^ serts password
<danfish> thanks all - spot on as usual :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Look for the "Supports Wake-on" and "Wake-on" lines in "ethtool" output
<danfish> ok
<MartijnVdS> Supports Wake-on: pumbg
<MartijnVdS> Wake-on: g
<MartijnVdS> says mine
 * daubers might finally be coming out of caffeine withdrawal \o/
<daubers> Only a gentle headache this morning
<MartijnVdS> daubers: on which end? :)
<danfish> ah - remote machine (revo) seems to have had indigestion with the oneiric update ;)
<danfish> will try later
<daubers> They do that
<MartijnVdS> daubers: (I mean.. by ingesting more caffeine, or by pulling through a caffeine-free phase)
<danfish> daubers: how may a day were you?
<danfish> s/may/many
<daubers> MartijnVdS: By dropping from ~8-9 cups of coffee a day to 2, one in the morning, one at 3
<danfish> daubers: I was going to say that's a lot, but I can get through 6 cans of diet coke in a day
<daubers> Also, I think the exercise thing is slowly starting to pay off, as I generally seem to have more energy over the past week or so
<daubers> danfish: Diet coke is icky. I'm allowed one tin of coke a day if I've been exceptionally productive
<daubers> (makes it about a tin a week at the moment)
<danfish> daubers: heh - good re the exercise - what are you doing?
 * danfish needs to start exercising again
<daubers> danfish: Squash \o/ Once a week, as I gave up running as I got bored of it. Doing squash with some mates is a bit more social
<daubers> Even if I'm rubbish at it :)
<MartijnVdS> ooh
<MartijnVdS> ethtool can set network offloading flags
<danfish> ooh - I used to play squash and there's a club nearby \o/
<daubers> Heh :)
<daubers> There's a fair few squash courts in reading, and at ~Â£6 a session it's not too pocket horrific
<danfish> on a week of holiday - chores done 0, exercise done 0, sofa time lots, slob rating 100%
<MooDoo> i've got two speeds, slow and stop :D
<daubers> heh :)
<mattt> danfish: sounds like my holidays
<mattt> always have a huge list of things to do
<mattt> end up getting nothing done :(
<danfish> mattt: I've decided not to beat myself up about it. So long as doing nothing doesn't become a habit ;)
<dwatkins> Sounds like most of my weekends.
<MartijnVdS> FINALLY
<MartijnVdS> http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/answer.py?answer=1631744
<MartijnVdS> Google Plus for Apps accounts
<popey> ooo
<bigcalm> :|
<MartijnVdS> http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/10/google-is-now-available-with-google.html for the blog post
<ali1234> we heard you like google, so we put a google in google so you can google while you google
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Not gone to the URL, but I assume the + has been dropped from part of the title to make the slug
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but i had to click on it before i figured it out
<bigcalm> Ah, not a web dev?
<ali1234> yes actually
<bigcalm> Oh :S
<ali1234> stuff like that always confuses me though
<ali1234> that, and the headlines on the BBC news RSS
<ali1234> smetimes i have to read them 3 or 4 times before i understand when they mean
<bigcalm> Heh
 * MartijnVdS adds a few people to Plus
<bigcalm> Their command of grammar isn't always understandable with one reading
<ali1234> popey: does trublr contain any of my code? or did you end up starting over?
<popey> nope, all from scratch
<ali1234> does it handle X server restarts gracefully
<ali1234> ?
<popey> no
<popey> but it could do
<ali1234> looks good anyway
<popey> thanks
<popey> needs some work
<popey> be nice if it could be financed by donations or something
<popey> I really haven't tested how many concurrent connections the server will support
<popey> or how much bandwidth it will need per person
<ali1234> it's centralized?
<ali1234> btw, this is exactly the kind of initiative i wanted to see the other day :)
<popey> it routes traffic through a central box, yeah
<popey> the client sets up an ssh tunnel to the central box port forwarding from helper to helpee
<ali1234> ooo
<ali1234> firefox says: "The operation can not be completed because of an internal failure. A secure network communication has not been cleaned up correctly."
<popey> nice
<Monsterwizard> How come people think I am less technical if I use Xchat on windows?
<Monsterwizard> There's no other good IRC clients on Windows :/
<ali1234> i use pidgin
<ali1234> anyone who judges technical ability based on what irc client you use is a noob
<ali1234> same goes for any software
<ali1234> it's what you do with it
<MartijnVdS> ah, the penis size argument ;)
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: putty, to ssh to the server where you run irssi in screen
<Monsterwizard> it's not the size of the worm it's how you wiggly it?
<Monsterwizard> Well I'm gonnna run irc in emacs
<Monsterwizard> lol
<Monsterwizard> why? oh just to over complicate things for other people when they use the computer
<daubers> Evening
<gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: that's as good a reason as any
<DJones> Heh, the Japanese have made a Terrahawk :) http://laughingsquid.com/spherical-flying-drone-hovers-like-a-helicopter-flies-at-40-mph/
<gordonjcp> DJones: Terrahawks!
<mgdm> :D
<DJones> Gerry Anderson tv series from a few decades ago :)
<mgdm> Oh, we know :)
<andres-kain> hello, I have my inlaws netbook seems to only boot into busybox.
<andres-kain> says mounting/dev on /root/dev failed: no such file or directory
<andres-kain> would installing a new version of ubuntu on it work?
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> you should boot a live image and examine the partitions for errors
<andres-kain> thanks will do that!
<andres-kain> not even exit on busy shell works.. kernel panic-not syncing: attempted to kill init!
<ali1234> well yeah that will happen if there is no root filesystem
<andres-kain> what tool checks partition errors?
<ali1234> fdisk and fsck
<andres-kain> failed to mount /dev/sda1
<andres-kain> ran $dmseg | tail
<andres-kain> ext4-fs (sda1): error loadin journal
<andres-kain> will this mean something is physically broken?
<ali1234> maybe
<andres-kain> gparted seems to see the drives.
<andres-kain> if i cant mount it, i cannot do fdisk right?
<andres-kain> ok, answering myself here: sudo fsck /dev/sda1
<andres-kain> ignored some sort of error said yes twice...
<andres-kain> claering orfans...
<andres-kain> inodes...
<andres-kain> ali1234 fdisk lets it mount! great i'll try to mount
<ali1234> hahaha butthurt perl programmers
<Andres-kain> ali1234 you are my sister-in-law unsung hero. of course i took all the credit of fixing her netbook.
<hux__> when I press shut down my pc only logs off
<hamitron> you could try the command: sudo shutdown -h 0
<hamitron> as a temp fix, till you properly sort it
<hux__> thanx hamitron
<ali1234> does anyone fancy having a go at this shredder challenge?
<Azelphur> shredder challenge?
<ali1234> http://www.shredderchallenge.com
<Azelphur> way too advanced for me :P
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> it's just a jigsaw puzzle
<Azelphur> as a human sure, I dunno I guess you could look for color gradients as they continued and make a best effort guess
<Azelphur> ali1234: do you know how the shredded documents are being sent to us?
<Azelphur> individual scans of every single strip? lol
<ali1234> yeah basically
<Azelphur> so you've got strips from multiple documents all bundled together, that makes it a little more difficult
<ali1234> the first puzzle is only one page
<Azelphur> I dunno I guess I can take a look at it, I have done some PIL stuff in python before
<Azelphur> although this seems more advanced mathematics than programming, which I'm not amazingly brilliant at xD
<ali1234> i feel like the best thing to do would be make a program that cuts out all the individual pieces and then displays them side by side and you click yes/no depending on if they look like they match
<Azelphur> that'd be pretty easy
<Azelphur> but yea, brb I got food cooking
<Myrtti> aw, no fun, must be either US citizen or permanent resident
<ali1234> i'm sure we can find someone
<Azelphur> "Entries ... must be a permanent resident or citizen of the United States" - way to limit the solution pool
<Azelphur> or not, gg
<ali1234> or we could just troll the competition by releasing the answers publicly :)
<hamitron> or work with someone from the US?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-28
<Azelphur> ali1234: things not on my todo list today: Call random people names until they beat me down, Assassinate the president, deliberately troll darpa
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> i just had a great idea
<Myrtti> I was just about to troll you guys with some Echelon catchable keywords
<Myrtti> but then I went like lol
<Myrtti> the logs are public anyway :-$
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> so... if you look at the ruled lines
<Azelphur> Myrtti: like FRU, Lebed, HALO, Spetznaz, Al Amn al-Askari, Glock 26 and Steak Knife? :D
<ali1234> you can get a metric between two vertical pieces by calculating the distance between the lines
<ali1234> from that you can reconstruct the strips, and getting from there to the final document should be relatively easy
<Azelphur> fun :)
<Myrtti> Azelphur: al qaeda, breivik, bomb, london olympics
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> inb4 we both disappear
<Myrtti> *snerk*
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<popey> Morning
<iclebyte> morning
<bigcalm> Morning peeps!
<popey> Pip pip!
<bigcalm> Peeps do go pip!
<DJones> 3 pips in the last minute, does that mean its 3am or 3pm?
<MooDoo> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahhh - I love the smell of invoicing in the morning! :-D
 * DJones invoices TheOpenSourcerer 
<DJones> & sends a credit note
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - Was actually sending invoices, not receiving them.
<DJones> Well, still seems fair
<iclebyte> we have an usual use case where we have very low disk latency requirements
<iclebyte> is anyone aware of a server which uses SSD drives?
<iclebyte> do dell do one?
<AlanBell> ask daubers
<kiwicraig> Hello All
<iclebyte> AlanBell, about the server?
<popey> not sure I'd buy a server with their own SSDs
<popey> I'd buy a server and add my own
<iclebyte> not sure if they will work?
<iclebyte> or fit in the disk cages
<popey> no
<popey> not that
<popey> manufacturers like dell massively inflate disk prices
<popey> I'd rather buy my own and put them in it
<popey> you get to choose, which is wise with SSD because the price/quality/performance varies wildly
<oimon> some vendors do cheeky stuff and modify the firmware so that only their disks are allowed :-\
<oimon> it's cheaper for me to buy a new Â£20k SAN than to upgrade the disks in it
<TheOpenSourcerer> In this month's CustomPC mag there are some stonkingly fast SSDs - Crucial did a firmware update and increased performance by 50-70% IIRC
<oimon> but even lower end NAS such as MD3000 array requires dell disks
<kiwicraig> Hello. I am looking for some that is running 11.10, Unity 2D and has a monitor of over 2100 pixels horizontal. I want to check if Launch Pad bug #879143 effects more then just me. I have a rather odd graphics card
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 879143 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "The app windows gets cut off at greater then 2050 pixels" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879143
<popey> hi kiwicraig
<popey> 2100 is very wide
<popey> ah, dual screen
<kiwicraig> Popey : yes dual 17"
<popey> is it intel video?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My monitor is 2048x1152
<kiwicraig> Nvida Qudra NVS
<iclebyte> popey, who would you rate as the better SSDS?
<kiwicraig> I  have 2680x1080
<popey> iclebyte: changes all the time, I'd read reviews
<TheOpenSourcerer> iclebyte: And it depends on what *you* mean by better.
<iclebyte> i'd define 'better' as longest lasting
<JamesTait> Fantabulous Friday, everyone!
<christel> fantabulous friday indeed! :)
<DJones> Not just any Friday, but payday friday as well, Doubly Fantabulous :)
<christel> \o/
<kiwicraig> == help
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am going to a beer festival this afternoon with a customer :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's asked me to bring along some chillies too.
<BigRedS> it seems to always be beer festival season in TheOpenSourcerer's world
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i want to do what you do :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Once every few months I get to one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Send me your CV ;-) Might be needing peeps next year
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: oooh, things going that good then?
<BigRedS> awesome
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: If you're ever up in the NW, you might like this pub http://www.helterskelter-frodsham.co.uk/caskbeer.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: It is looking that way - it's been on the cards for sometime. Taking a little longer than I would have liked but I think, yes. we will be running out of bandwidth within a year
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: http://thesandrock.com/drink/corecaskalerange.htm
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ok will do :)  would a pic of a beer glass do instead ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's 8 hand-pumps in my local - They are mostly always on too.
<AlanBell> MooDoo: how is your python?
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Sounds like a similar type of pub
<MooDoo> AlanBell: pah my kryponite....i'm learning, but not up to a usable level.....come back and ask me next year.
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: oh cool. well done! :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: This is my *other* local - I have two free houses within 10mins walk. http://www.thebatandball.co.uk/main/index.php
<MooDoo> AlanBell: as good as my spelling
<AlanBell> MooDoo: good enough :)
<AlanBell> kiwicraig: I can't reproduce bug 879143
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 879143 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "The app windows gets cut off at greater then 2050 pixels" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879143
<MooDoo> wow just spent Â£50 on fireworks :D
<kiwicraig> AlanBell: Thanks for the feedback, I think that I will have to try a different video card and different monitor
<bigcalm> MooDoo: http://www.myrant.net/2009/11/09/fireworks-fun-or-explosives-for-all/
<MooDoo> thanks bigcalm mr old and jumpy ;)
<bigcalm> \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey brobostigon
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer and BigRedS
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> bigcalm: well my son loved them last year, and i only bought a teeny box to gauge his reaction so i've gone for a bigger box this year :S
<MooDoo> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm in your neck-of-the-woods this weekend. Bro-in-law is having a 50th halloween party in Hornton.
<kiwicraig> Good night all
<MooDoo> night kiwicraig :)
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: who was that directed to?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - you brobostigon
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.hornton.org.uk/
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, :). i have an empty weekend, eccept for this afternoon.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: what do you have in mind?
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: Dunno - was just saying I am going to my brother-in-law's 50th Halloween party.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: reinedeer in town, has a mini beer fest, so maybe we could meet for a beer.?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I doubt I will have time. Won't be there till 5pm tomorrow - get the kids fed and watered, get dressed up, get pissed, sleep, get up drive home. :-(
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, i see. ohwell.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did everyone just see popey's tweet?
 * brobostigon looks.
<oimon> popey: tell more!
<oimon> and congrats :)
<MooDoo> not here :S
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: don't scare me like that. I thought something horrible had happened to Claire
<MooDoo> ah that explains it, i'm not following popey, but CONGRATS, awesome news.....
<oimon> i seriously considered the sysadmin role @ canonical, yet decided against due to home working probably not being for me right now (young sprogling)
<MooDoo> oimon: is that what popey is doing?
<oimon> he hasn't specified the position yet
<oimon> he's prob on a coffee run or something :P
<AlanBell> he left the not-canonical launchpad team yesterday :)
<bigcalm> Ah, tea boy for Canonical then?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: step up from SAP then ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<Laney> :-)
<MooDoo> morning Laney
<Laney> alright?
<MooDoo> Laney: aye not bad, hearing people getting new jobs is a downer though ;) lol
<Laney> been applying?
<MooDoo> Laney: no now shuush :)
<Laney> well then :P
<MooDoo> Laney: i have applied for a couple lol
<MooDoo> Laney: canonical turned me down ;)
<Laney> how rude
<Laney> you should move to arch!
<MooDoo> Laney: what leave vista ;)
<oimon> MooDoo: which role specifically do u want
<oimon>  / looking for
<MooDoo> oimon: nothing specific right now, it's just looking season :)  after 20+ years a complete change might be in order....i'll probably stay where i am for ever lol
<oimon> my job ad should be online soon :P
<MooDoo> oimon: what you looking for?
<oimon> helpful linux geek who likes learning new things
<MooDoo> oimon: i fit that bill as long as learning new things involves drinking beer techniques ;)
<oimon> sort of person who can become competent in things quickly such as puppet, drupal, spacewalk etc , or whatever needs learning
<MooDoo> oimon: sounds good :)
<oimon> it's a dream role for linuxy people IMO
<MooDoo> oimon: you would say that ;)
<MooDoo> but i would agree lol
<christel> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> Really torn between the Galaxy Note & Nexus: blog.clove.co.uk/2011/10/28/samsung-galaxy-note-demo-video/
<daubers> spacewalk?
<MooDoo> linux systems management
<daubers> Oh, YASAT
<daubers> or better YASMT
<MooDoo> a redhat thing at one point if i remember rightly, hmmm wonder if my account still works?
<oimon> although there is a possibility all our linux desktops will switch to ubuntu in a couplee of years
<MooDoo> oimon: what you got now?  fedora?
<oimon> Scientific linux
<oimon> fedora has too short life span per release
<MooDoo> yeah....
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just added The Dalai Lama to his circles.
<MooDoo> still it's a beefy miricle :D
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: expect lots of bleating
<oimon> maybe i'll just buy the t-shirt
<MooDoo> oimon: :)   lots ot UK ambassadors want one :) lol
<oimon> i can't see how fedora can be useful
<MooDoo> oimon: i use it at work and on a machine at home, still using F13 at work and it seems fine for what i use it for
<BigRedS> oimon: it seems loved by people who want a polished and finished-looking desktop without the hand-holding of ubuntu
<oimon> f13 is EOL
<BigRedS> well, teh subset of those who can stand yum
<MooDoo> oimon: i know :) still it's ok as a desktop machine...
<oimon> no security updates :o
<jpds> oimon: "person who can become competent in things quickly" - you don't need a job to do that. ;)
<MooDoo> oimon: i'll upgrade eventually, don't see the need to at the moment
<oimon> but...security?
<MooDoo> oimon: yes it's important and maybe i'm being blarsay [however you spell it] about it all or naive but .... [finding something to say here]
<MooDoo> oimon: pah damn you, where is that F15 disk
<oimon> blasÃ©
<MooDoo> yes that's the one.
<MooDoo> spelling when you're stressed sucks.
<oimon> naÃ¯ve ? not sure about that one though
<oimon> yep , one i , two dots :)
 * MooDoo shuts up now! :)
 * oimon stops multitasking and unitasks on his paid work
<oimon> wonder if we'll see less of popey now he's joined the light side of the force
<MooDoo> oimon: stop yabbering and get on with your work :D
<DJones> Has anybody had issues with pidgin not starting up properly, I've got the icon in the unity bar, but probably 4 out 5 times, I have to close & exit it & kep restarting it to get the buddy list on screen
<DJones> On 11.10
<mattt> happy friday!@
<MooDoo> same to you :D
<popey> Morning all
<MooDoo> popey: morning mr canonical man ;) think you better spill before you get lynched ;)
<dogmatic69> sup popey
<popey> hah
<Seeker`> popey: did you get any sleep last night?
<popey> about 5 hours
<popey> usual :D
<Seeker`> not too terrible then
<directhex> i've been going to bed earlier lately
<directhex> actually, that's a lie
<directhex> i've been stopping playing games due to tiredness earlier, but still loitering online until 2am
<directhex> close enough!
<daubers> Heh, I've been going to bed later again
<iclebyte> regarding the spacewalk comment above, does any one know if there was any more movement on the implementation of deb support within spacewalk? Last I read there was a student taking it on but I don't know if it got any further?
<daubers> More to try and get my backlog of rubbish done
<MooDoo> iclebyte: https://fedorahosted.org/spacewalk/wiki/Deb_support_in_spacewalk this help?
<jacobw> heresy
<MooDoo> ?
<iclebyte> YES =)
<iclebyte> thanks.
 * jacobw has just scrolled forward several days
<jacobw> 'tis the danger of screen
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> iclebyte: no probs :)
<dogmatic69> ive set up a reverse proxy so i have all my name servers pointing to one server and that redirects the request to correct server. is there a way to revers proxy ssh connections?
 * BigRedS can never remember which way round a 'forward' proxy is
<Xbert> Apparmor is not showing Firefox as enforced when it running, Firefox is set to be enforced, can anyone help me?
 * daubers needs more sockets under his desk :-s
<directhex> daubers, i don't have any at all. there's an extension cable running across the floor
<daubers> directhex: snap :) Might hang another one off ths one
 * daubers is very safety concious
<directhex> er... yeah
<directhex> there's a 2-way across the floor, with two 6-ways plugged into it :)
<popey> BigRedS: glad its not just me
<daubers> At the moment it's running 2 screens, my desktop and a powerbook G4
<directhex> this is running two pcs with everything
<oimon> iclebyte: we nearly implemented spacewalk but ended up deciding on puppet. install OS via PXE and then use puppet to deal with supplementary configs. works across distros nicely
<iclebyte> oimon, we are running puppet - well slowing migrating to it. How are you managing package updates? Do you set all your packages to '=>latest' within puppet then control your own repository? if so how do you migrate packages into the new repo?
<TheOpenSourcerer> right then.
<oimon> iclebyte: package updates are managed via a cron.daily
 * TheOpenSourcerer heads to the station for an afternoon of beer and merryment,
<iclebyte> automatically!?
<oimon> which is standard in SL. does a yum upgrade (excluding kernel)
<AlanBell> have fun TheOpenSourcerer
<iclebyte> you allow automatic updates on your servers?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Something to read everyone: http://blog.canonical.com/2011/10/28/white-paper-secure-boot-impact-on-linux/
<oimon> SL updates are security updates only
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks AlanBell
<oimon> so, yes
<iclebyte> sorry what's an 'SL update' ?
<oimon> scientific linux "updates repository"
<iclebyte> oh.
<oimon> although once openoffice updated from 2.3 -> 3.1 due to a security update..bit of a shock
<iclebyte> i'd still like a dashboard to show me the package status of all our servers.
 * popey tickles TheOpenSourcerer 
<oimon> the seucrity fix was not available on the old version
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes popey
<iclebyte> yea that's the kind of thing that worries me. the best idea i've drawn up is have 3 puppet servers, dev, test, prod then promoting them via git, but this means I still need to control which repo they install from
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: be quick or email/phone/dm me on twitter in 20m
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: was just a friendly tickle
<iclebyte> I can't seem to find any 'accepted solution' for this server management, just blogs with people saying 'we test first' etc.
<popey> CANT A MAN TICKLE ANOTHER MAN ANYMORE!
<oimon> no
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> :D
 * bigcalm demands tickles
<TheOpenSourcerer> tee hee
<bigcalm> And a pot noodle
<TheOpenSourcerer> no stop it.
<iclebyte> bigcalm, bombay bad boy?
<TheOpenSourcerer> NO I MEAN REALLY STOP IT!
<oimon> iclebyte: what distro on the server?
 * TheOpenSourcerer runs away. laterz.
<iclebyte> ubuntu-server 10.04LTS we run on all boxes
<MooDoo> man tickles are so wrong :)
<iclebyte> about 40
<bigcalm> iclebyte: beef and tom with soysauce and tabasco
<iclebyte> bigcalm, never thought about introducing tabasco
<iclebyte> good idea tho
<bigcalm> Doesn't need much
<bigcalm> 2-3 drops
<iclebyte> I watched someone do a shot of tobasco once.
<bigcalm> Or half a bottle if you are TheOpenSourcerer
<oimon> a cleaner drank a bottle once for Â£120
<popey> !
<oimon> goaded by bullying traders
<bigcalm> :(
<daubers> Don't think would cover the medical bills somehow...
<iclebyte> i can see that happening with traders.
<popey> There was a restaurant in Denmark I went to where they had _massive_ tabasco bottles
<oimon> he had been taking pics of stately homes and sending them to his wife in africa saying that he lived there
<popey> like 2 Litre
<popey> same shape as normal ones
<iclebyte> oimon, any more ideas on my server management issues?
<daubers> popey: and you downed it in one?
<popey> hah, no
<popey> iclebyte: what kind of server management?
<oimon> RHEL/SL/centos update policy makes me fell more cosy
 * popey heartily recommends Landscape ;)
<oimon> except the puppet client in EPEL got updated
<Laney> hah
<oimon> how much is landscape
<oimon> popey no longer has to say "other server management tools are available"
<bigcalm> popey: are you now a corporate shill?
<iclebyte> yea i'm basically looking for something like landscape, but important packages need to be tested before hand, so I need some kind of staging repo.
 * oimon missed the bit where popey tells us his new job title
<iclebyte> then manually allow packages through into the main repo.
<MooDoo> oimon: he hasn't yet, unless we're right and it's tea boy :)
 * Laney saw it on the twoot box
<oimon> till dolly in ubuntu shop in japan
<oimon> Laney: ah yes
<DJones> MooDoo: Are sure they've not just put him in charge of dealing with bugs submitted via launchpad, after all, most of them will be ones he's reported :)
<popey> Engineering Manager oimon
<BigRedS> he's head of closing mailings lists, I hear :)
<popey> bigcalm: not until monday
<Laney> which engineers?
<kirrus> oimon: you have to buy Ubuntu Advantage, which begins at Â£202.11 per server
<Laney> put the buttons back! (et cetera)
<oimon> kirrus: academic pricing?
<kirrus> oimon: you'll have to contact them to find that out
<iclebyte> what's 202 per server?
<oimon> Redhat practically give away their RHEL servers to edu
<kirrus> oimon: http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=41_39
 * daubers os considering setting up a 2 node eucalyptus type thing
<MooDoo> oimon: don't pay, use centos instead, pretty much the same
<oimon> MooDoo: yeah, use SL
<oimon> community is nicer than centos
<oimon> until centos 6 got delayed and they came over to SL
<oimon> now more arguments on teh ML
<MooDoo> oimon: SL just another rebranded RHEL? compiled from it's source?
<oimon> MooDoo: yep.
<MooDoo> if i'm reading it right on the site
<popey> same as centos
<popey> but seems more active to me
<oimon> they usually manage it quicker
<oimon> and more serious users
<MooDoo> might have to give it a try, replace my centos boxen :)
<BigRedS> yeah, it has moer people working on it than CentOS
<oimon> more professional users in the community than the centos noobs :P
<BigRedS> pros use debian
<BigRedS> er, ubuntu
<BigRedS> oops
<oimon> Redhat derivs historically have better support for crappy raid cards and server hardware
<oimon> and Dell OMSA
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<oimon> but most of my stuff is inside vmware nowadays.
 * MooDoo has a fondness for fedora,centos,rhel :)
<MooDoo> yay vmware :D
<oimon> sure u don't want a job ;)
 * MooDoo hugs his esxi server :D
 * iclebyte hugs his conviture setup
<MooDoo> my only wish is that i had a 64bit cpu in my home server so i can upgrade to esxi 4 :D
<MooDoo> oh congratulation anyway popey :D
<popey> hehe
<popey> :D
<popey> thanks
<MooDoo> no more SAP eh! bet that's a relief :)
<popey> Like you wouldn't believe!
<oimon> no more iRc ?
<daubers> popey: It's ok, I'll give the missus your phone number for when she gets stuck :)
<Daviey> oh popey, you fool :)
<TOSDroid> Farnham, Ash Vale, North Camp, Redhill, Merstham. Not bad for Â£12.20 return.
<Daviey> O_o
<TOSDroid> Takes about 1:45 hrs though.
<popey> heh Daviey
<AlanBell> TOSDroid: you in Farnham?
 * AlanBell works out who TOSDroid is
<TOSDroid> I am leaving Farnham
<TOSDroid> Lol
<AlanBell> silly nick Al :)
<TOSDroid> I like it
 * daubers goes to get a sandwich
<MooDoo> TOSDroid: = the othe al?
<TOSDroid> What do you mean Moodoo? WE are Alan
<AlanBell> resistance is futile
<MooDoo> ok thanks, that's explained it ;)
<MooDoo> nanoo nanoo
<oimon> sounds like one of his chickens escaped
<popey> Shazbut
<TOSDroid> Shazbut?
<MooDoo> mork and mindy
<TOSDroid> Omg
<TOSDroid> W00t Ash Vale already. Now to walk quickly to north camp...
<popey> nice walk that
<bigcalm> Yay lunch time is here
 * bigcalm ventures into the rest of his cold cold house
<popey> that well known black hole between Ash Vale and North Camp has TOSDroid
<Daviey> Ash Vale is right next to the ranges, right?
<popey> not far yeah
<TOSDroid> At north camp.
<TOSDroid> Train for redhill approaching...
<oimon> bizarrely, my insurance renewal quote seems to be in the region of other re-quotes :-\ quite unusual
<DJones> Maybe you've hit the maximum insurance quote :)
<Laney> anyone know how to boot wubi without splash?
<oimon> just had to run down 10 flights of stairs then up again cos the lift has a habit of trapping people :(
<jpds> oimon: At least it was down and not up.
<oimon> i did down and then up
<oimon> all for a drink to have with my lunch :-\
<oimon> i want those calories back...i need them
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> popey: you working for us now?
<iclebyte> any of you guys use any forums targeted at enterprise networking/sysadmin topics?
<awilkins> Just the StackExchange ones
<awilkins> But I don't really hit the sysadmin bits, mostly programming
 * mattt just taped black garbage backs against the windows in the office
<mattt> *bags
<mattt> wonder how long before the building managers tell me to take them down :P
<oimon> iclebyte: ars technica "server room" forum , although they tend to focus on Virtualisation a lot
<oimon> mattt: why? want some sleep?
<mattt> oimon: far too bright :/
<oimon> wear shades dude
<oimon> B-)
<mattt> nah
<mattt> now i just need to unscrew these bulbs
<oimon> or get a cameraman's shade thing between you and the monitor :)
<iclebyte> ok thanks chaps.
<MooDoo> oimon: doing alright, got good grades, future is so bright, i gotta wear shades....
<daubers> Anybody  got any good resources on altering SVG's with JS?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you can do that using the DOM, just like HTML
<MartijnVdS> getElementById
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<daubers> Hmmm.. is that the easiest way?
<MartijnVdS> I doubt it :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: This looks like it does what you want and more: http://svgkit.sourceforge.net/
<daubers> Hmmm... that might do
<MartijnVdS> Argh, why doesn't sshd on Lucid understand ecdsa keys
<MooDoo> home time yet
<danfish> a100
<danfish> oops
<MartijnVdS> danfish: isn't that a little short for a password? :)
<mattt> MartijnVdS: :P
<popey>  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/28/stallman_criticises_steve_jobs_again/
<popey> \o/
<MooDoo> he's not evil, he's really evil :)
 * MartijnVdS waits for popey's "Leave Steve Jobs alone!!" video on Youtube
<MartijnVdS> and someone else's "Leave Stallman alone!!" reply video
<DJones> MooDoo: Which one is the really evil one though, Steve Jobs or RMS ?
<BigRedS> presumably Steve isn't very evil any more
<popey> ooooh thats a good idea MartijnVdS
<DJones> If you make the video though, RMS will cross you off his Christmas card list :)
 * MartijnVdS makes the video
 * bigcalm shivers a little bit more
 * DJones assumes bigcalm's heating is broken
<danfish> MartijnVdS: that's one of my longer passwords :D
<bigcalm> DJones: I've been tweet-moaning about it all day
<DJones> I noticed one tweet earlier
<MartijnVdS> twomplaining?
<MartijnVdS> twoaning?
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<bigcalm> Only have one number for my Land Lady and she isn't answering it
<Pendulum> bigcalm: go for a run?
<bigcalm> Pendulum: think I'll stick to moaning :P
<Pendulum> bigcalm: also, layer jumpers
<MartijnVdS> Running helps to keep warm
<MartijnVdS> I've run in -10Â°C and it was amazing :)
<DJones> Perhaps she's on twitter and looks for the hashtag #landladyfromhell
<bigcalm> Pendulum: plenty of extra layers on :)
<bigcalm> DJones: she's a very nice lady who has done improvements to the house without raising rent. Rarely hear from her as well
<bigcalm> Just tricky to get a hold of :)
<DJones> Hope you get it sorted before the weekend
<bigcalm> Would be nice, though looking unlikely now :|
<mattt> heating already?
<mattt> s'beautiful out
<mattt> lies, i've had my heating on once this year already :(
<mattt> *soft*
<MartijnVdS> mattt: back in January, amirite?
<mattt> MartijnVdS: pssh!
<mattt> a week or two back :P
<buzz_> gord, are you involved with unity 2d or just 3d ?
<buzz_> has anyone apart from me tried it on 800x480 screen. in fact the new ubuntu software manager is also pretty unusable on a smaller display. but unity2d does not work for this size device
<oimon> buzz_: i tried it on a eee pc..it was pretty unusable. ironic really since it gre out of the netbook edition
<buzz_> i basically just made a oneiric image for the o2 joggler to try. its certainly less usable than the classic interface
<buzz_> the overlay scrollbars are also tricky on touchscreen. ok so they can be turned off
<buzz_> also, the new onboard version got themes, but the fact is, it is slow to use. it doesnt respond quickly to presses. and oneiric killed florence from the repos, rather than compiling without gnome2 panel supoprt so i had to rebuild packages for that
<buzz_> florence is a much better keyboard imho
<buzz_> oimon, the old netbook remix interface was very usable on this device.. and the only issues were gnome/window manager related, as there are lots of things that gnome does badly on small screens
<buzz_> but for finding and launching apps, it was quick and easy
<buzz_> anyway, im not going to do any further work on this image for the joggler. and release it as is. instead I will go for lxde + lxlauncher or so http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXLauncher
<DJones> I must have missed this yesterday, Dell selling preloaded Ubuntu machines in China http://blog.canonical.com/2011/10/27/retail-stores-in-china/
<awilkins> Oh my, the Richard Stallman tour rider got onto Slashdot
<nymwar> tour rider?
<Azelphur> I looked at it but I don't really think it's that crazy
<Azelphur> I know lots of people that don't eat breakfast, it's not exactly uncommon
<Azelphur> and I wouldn't want supervision crossing streets either xD
<MooDoo> Azelphur: i read that as crossing streams....ghostbusters!!!!! :)
<Azelphur> lol
<buzz_> does it say "will require pasty or pie to eat during speech and tea"
 * buzz_ reas
<buzz_> reads
<jacobw> it sounds like he'd be better off not mentioning parrots at all
<buzz_> yeh hes got tea.. takes his own teabags. like me on holiday hehe
<Azelphur> I like parrots too :o
<jacobw> i've never met a parrot, i've met a sloth though
<Azelphur> is it bad that I share so many similarities with RMS? lol
<Azelphur> had parrots in the family since I was born, all my life, so I'm very much a parrot person
<Azelphur> I'm about as close to the parrot whisperer as you're going to get xD
<jacobw> do they whisper back? :P
<jacobw> do you think its mimicry or conversation?
<Azelphur> jacobw: not really, a birds language is usually very simple and rudimentary it's more gesture and emotion based than language
<buzz_> he prefers a couch from a hotel. heh.
<oimon> hotels are too sterile for me
<oimon> no wonder businessmen get bored and turn on the naughty channels
<buzz_> i prefer a hotel .. i dont sleep at demo parties either anymore
<Azelphur> jacobw: and for sure they can understand a lot, they are smart animals, you can certainly convey most of their language yourself
<jacobw> :)
<Azelphur> jacobw: next time you go to a zoo or something, try shutting your eyes at a parrot, if you're lucky it'll shut it's eyes too for example :)
<oimon> how would you know? your eyes would be shut :P
<Azelphur> haha, open them again after a few seconds, long enough for the parrot to notice :p
<jacobw> oimon: that's exactly what i thought
<Azelphur> that basically boils down to "friend" in bird terms
<Azelphur> you trust the bird enough to stand near it with your eyes shut, so your saying you trust the bird not to attack you
<Azelphur> and of course if they shut their eyes back, feelings mutual :D
<oimon> same with doggy rolling over for you to rub belly
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> they all have their own method of communication, it's just not a language like us, we're weird with language
<buzz_> well. ive gone off him. he doesnt like beer.. thats just wrong
<Azelphur> most animals use sounds and gestures to convey emotions
<Azelphur> in other news I think I'll try gaming in a VM again
<oimon> this copy of windows must be activated before logon. ...can't connect with server....boots you out to login screen.
<oimon> no chance to edit dhcp settings or anything
<MooDoo> oimon: remotely?
<oimon> no, physically in front of pc
<MooDoo> oimon: 7 or vista or xp?
<oimon> i think i need to install a network driver , no chance it's gonna let me
<oimon> XP
<oimon> gonna nuke it
<MooDoo> oimon: ok you could try extracting wpa.db_ from the installation cd in safe mode and copying it to c:\windows\system32, then rebooting and installing SP3?   or nuke it :)
<oimon> plan B
<oimon> nuke from space
<MooDoo> only way to be sure
<oimon> i have no time for windows..it's a home pc for my boss anyway
<bigcalm> Game over man, game over
<MooDoo> stupid boss ;)
<oimon> on a 4 yr old PC :D
<oimon> hey, it's 5pm ..i'll worry about it on monday
<MooDoo> yay dedication ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> Another 57 mins of hard slog to do yet
<MooDoo> bigcalm: hard slog = chat in IRC?
<MooDoo> ;)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: It feels like hard work talking with some people at times ;P
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you'll get used to me ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> I didn't say whom :P
<MooDoo> i kow i was teasing ;)
<bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?
<oimon> yep
<daubers> bigcalm: Yes! Also, it's payday :D
 * oimon checks
<MooDoo> for me too :D
<popey> \o/ pay day
 * daubers watches all his money waltz out of his account to the DSA :(
<bigcalm> 14th of the month is my pay day :(
<bigcalm> Also, I never notice it
<daubers> bigcalm: This is an exciting payday as it marks the point I can afford all my motorbike tests
<daubers> I could goto the bike show this year and lust after a pan euro again
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> daubers: good show :)
<AlanBell> is that what BigRedS has?
<MooDoo> daubers: i'm glad it was only cbt and then test when i did it :D
<kirrus> AlanBell: afaik, yes
<kirrus> he's on it right now though
<daubers> MooDoo: Done the CBT and theory. 2 practicals left
<daubers> I want a pan euro and about a month off work to go riding around europe :)
<MooDoo> daubers: i did my bike tests in '94 :D
<daubers> Bah, I was 9 then :P
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> o.O
<AlanBell> I was 19
<MooDoo> pah i'm nearly 40 :(
<MartijnVdS> aww
<diplo> evening all
<popey> pip pip
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<bigcalm> hip-hop
<MartijnVdS> bow wow
<daubers> Quick poll: Chinese/Indian/Himalayan?
<MartijnVdS> Tea?
<MartijnVdS> Himalayan :)
<daubers> Yup, no missus, so just me, a takeaway, some beers, crouching tiger hidden dragon and some java tutorials
<MartijnVdS> My favourite radio is celebrating its 5-year existence with a 12 hour long broadcast :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<daubers> heh
<daubers> dinner ordered
<mattt> what'd you get
<daubers> Himalayan
<daubers> Just off to collect it now :)
<danfish> Himalayan - nepalesy I presume? Loversley
<MartijnVdS> napalmese?
<daubers> danfish: Inded
<daubers> Indeedy :)
<danfish> A friend of mine who was in the army has a copy of the Ghurka section of the army cookbook
<daubers> Cool
<daubers> The himalayan place is run by some ex Gurkhas
<danfish> every recipe starts with 'stred 30 chilis'
<daubers> heh
<danfish> I'm not sure of the licencing of it, but I've got a scanned copy somewhere.....
<daubers> How many does that cook for though
<danfish> a 'company', howver many that is
<daubers> A fair few
<diplo> Congrats popey
<diplo> Can you share what your role is ? Not seen it specifically on any of G+ posts
<MartijnVdS> chief podcast officer? :P
<diplo> :E
<diplo> Been meaning to ask you what you do as a job MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Perl programmer at XS4ALL (Dutch ISP)
<diplo> I've heard of them, probably from places like irc in hostnames :)
<diplo> I went for a job as perl programmer before
<diplo> Really wasn't good enough to read job post let alone apply for job :P
<diplo> My perl gets me by i guess
<diplo> Used to write a lot of automated reports / analysis for my last place
<diplo> and a CCTV system that used perl scripts to automate everything
<diplo> Was probably my best work with perl :/
<MartijnVdS> I write parts of the backend systems, provisioning database, etc.
<MartijnVdS> and lots of associated "toolkit" libraries
<diplo> nice
<ali1234> azelphur: how would the parrot notice you opening your eyes if it has it's eyes closed?
<Azelphur> you close them first :P
<diplo> popey, you still involved with lug.org.uk ?
<stevepdp> evening all
<popey> diplo: ya
<popey> diplo: Engineering Manager
<diplo> How hard is it to get a subdomain re-established ?
<diplo> oh and nice
<diplo> Joined Bristol lug mailing list recently and noticed they have talked about it, reminded me you were involved. thought i'd ask and pass along
<popey> very easy
<popey> you want bristol.lug.org.uk to point somewhere?
<popey> if so, thats 5 mins work, just get them to email admin@lug.org.uk
<diplo> Will do squire, guessed it would be.. just wasn't sure if there was an official form ( Not been involved before ) :)
<diplo> thanks
<popey> np
<daubers> popey: Does that make you the canonical version of Scotty?
<daubers> WIll you be yelling "We just cannae dee it sabdfl, we dunna have the poower!"
 * AlanBell hides his stash of dilithium crystals
<daubers> AlanBell: That's not dilithium, also, the police where rooting around the hen house :p
<popey> does http://popey.com/+ work for you guys?
<popey> should take you to my "new" google+ profile
<daubers> yup
<popey> ta
<daubers> I always thought sil would have made a good scotty
<nperry> popey: it doesn't because irssi doesn't think + is part of the url
<funkyHat> s/irssi/your terminal emulator/
<popey> http://popey.com/plus then :D
 * popey foresaw this
 * funkyHat registers wiggl.ie so he can have the url http://wiggl.ie/worms
<AlanBell> 404 popey
<nperry> forward thinking++
<popey> erk
 * nperry wonders what diaspora is looking like these days
<popey> fixed?
<popey> looks a lot like an empty google+
<nperry> Yes :)
<nperry> The yes was an answer to the fixed question.
<daubers> funkyHat: I have a 26" one of those! Was given it as a birthday present
<popey> yay
<daubers> funkyHat: http://www.firebox.com/product/2928/Giant-Gummi-Worm
<funkyHat> oh my
<nperry> Ah, how I love firebox
 * popey hugs nperry 
<daubers> I have no idea what to do with this worm. It's 4000 calories
 * popey hugs Laney 
<Laney> GREETINGS!
<popey> wow
<popey> Laney: see you next week :D
<Laney> you coming after all?
<Laney> or was it one of those secret things
<popey> flight booked today
<Laney> phwoar, bet that was cheap
<popey> i only knew I was coming this morning
<popey> got a fly-drive deal
<Laney> i found an amusingly named beer to bring with me
<Laney> also marmite
<popey> ooooo
<popey> I will also bring marmite
<popey> maybe some XO
<Laney> no, bring something else!
<popey> I have squeezy marmite
<popey> oh ok
<Laney> real tea
<popey> heh
<Laney> coronation street
<Laney> queues
<Laney> red double decker
<popey> tutting
<popey> ok, will go to shops to find most british thing i ...
<Laney> i was going to buy XO, but decided it was Xcsessive
<popey> actually, I'll ask twitter
<Laney> 3.99 and it comes in a ruddy presentation box
<popey> its also a little overrated
<popey> and the lid sticks like superglue
<popey> ok, tweeted
<popey> how long before someone complains that I said English and not British?
<Laney> just said goodbye to the missus for the week and i am feeling surprisingly :(
<Laney> when did i get whipped?
<popey> when do you fly out?
<Laney> tomorrow
<popey> ahh
<Laney> she has gone away for the weekend
<popey> 11am London?
<Laney> manx
<popey> ah
<Laney> 1345
<popey> <- 11 on monday
<Laney> aha
<popey> oh got some ace suggestions!
<popey> cricket bats
<popey> a morris dancer
<Laney> you'll miss the debian session!
<popey> crumpets
<popey> dairy milk
<popey> i feel an etherpad coming on
<popey> monarchy
<popey> a duck
<popey> wine gums
<Laney> bull terrier
<daubers> popey: Don't take a kinder egg, they're not allowed in the US
<popey> lol, a wheel of stilton
<popey> O RLY?
<daubers> yup, toy in a food item designed for minors
<AlanBell> "what can we get popey to bring that will cause customs to get the rubber gloves out?"
<daubers> AlanBell: Those "dilithium" crystals ;-)
<daubers> AlanBell: Or you just write "CENSORED" on his chest in lead paint for the millimeter wave scanners
<Laney> bag of clocks
 * Laney bikes home, brb
<daubers> Laney: One of these http://tinyurl.com/6jf8r5f
<daubers> popey: If you wanted to take something thats missing in the US, you could just take some common sense
<AlanBell> but where will he find any of that?
<daubers> AlanBell: He could take me!
<daubers> (or would that reduce the amount of common sense?)
<popey> A list is forming!
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/WhatShouldPopeyTakeToTheUSA
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Rogers_phenomenon
<ali1234> daubers ^
<daubers> ali1234: I see :p
<AlanBell> a win-win situation \o/
<TOSDroid> Discussing hosting fees with a customer whilst drunk. Good idea?
<AlanBell> TOSDroid: well, as the customer is drunk too, yes :)
 * nperry msgs TOSDroid for some hosting.
<mgdm> I see everyone has migrated to Etherpad :)
<popey> i love the internet
<daubers> heh
<gordonjcp> mgdm: hi, and yes
<mgdm> evening, gordonjcp :)
<ali1234> al@al-desktop:~/.gvfs$ rsync share\ on\ hd-htgl205/ backups\ on\ ix2-200-dc386f/share/
<ali1234> skipping directory .
<TOSDroid> Waiting at merstham station for a train...
<TOSDroid> Am quite tipsy...
<TOSDroid> Mustn't lose my beer glass.
<TOSDroid> Will I make last orders at the local?
<TOSDroid> Swype for the win
<TOSDroid> Train delayed. Oh no.
<Laney> wow
<Laney> quite a crew going on that list
<TOSDroid> So. Gnome shell our Unity?
<awilkins> Can't speak for Gnome shell
<TOSDroid> *or
<TOSDroid> "ohh train.
<TOSDroid> VU
<TOSDroid> Wtf
<TOSDroid> Redhill already.
<gordonjcp> redhil
<gordonjcp> *redhill
 * DJones wonders how many beers TOSDroid "tested"
<gordonjcp> man, this should be #ubuntu-ridiculously-southern-england
<DJones> Nah, We're not all southern england
<mgdm> heh
 * bigcalm is very middle
 * gordonjcp wonders who the most northerly #ubuntu-uker is
 * bigcalm waves
<DJones> Some aren't even England
<dashroom> I'm quite northern
<mgdm> gordonjcp: it used to be me
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: mgdm?
<mgdm> (at one point a while back)
<mgdm> not any more, there's a chap from Inverness who shows up periodically
<DJones> I'm North West, part way between Liverpool & Manchester
<mgdm> "north"
<mgdm> :)
<mgdm> I once went to a conference called PHP North West, to which I had to travel over 300 miles south
<TheBugcastDJ> I'm originally from the home counties, but now living in Yorkshire.
<gordonjcp> mgdm: I think Myrtti has you beat, if she's in Tampere
<mgdm> ah yes
<gordonjcp> Liverpool is well south
<bigcalm> I do love coming across T junctions in the highlands of Scotland that have a sign post saying nothing more than West & East
<gordonjcp> Manchester is further than space
<DJones> bigcalm: That reminds me of the signs in Australia, "Kangaroo's next 500km"
<DJones> There's an odd one or two from Cumbria & an occasional North East person, but the channel does have a majority of southern based regulars
<TOSDroid> Hmmm. Think I have 20m to wait ford the reading train
<gordonjcp> mgdm: we need to start recording a podcast so we can have an unconference too
<gordonjcp> mgdm: I think we should call it "Pissup In A Brewery"
<TOSDroid> This it's boring
<daubers> Isn't the majority of the population in the south though?
 * awilkins is from the South, but lives in the North
<dashroom> Northerners FTW
<TOSDroid> The north it's full of northerners though.
<dashroom> Exactly
<DJones> Thats the way we like it though :)
<daubers> TOSDroid: And scots
<mgdm> gordonjcp: :D
<mgdm> daubers: Oi
<gordonjcp> the south is full of southerners
<gordonjcp> they speak a weird incomprehensible language and behave really oddly
<TOSDroid> North is cold and tactless
<gordonjcp> it's like being in France but with crap cheese
<dashroom> lollage
<DJones> Heh, but together what do we all make.... Ubuntu-uk, can't see anything wrong with that
<gordonjcp> at least in france you can drive at 130mph on the motorways
<bigcalm> kph
<bigcalm> 80ishmph
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> but if you get stopped you just point at it, look blankly at them and say "130, yes"
 * bigcalm rolls his eyes
<bigcalm> :P
<daubers> mgdm: I actually like the majority of scots I've met. Just with that they'd BLOODY WELL CHEER UP!
<TOSDroid> Good old tories want to change the speed linky here's took
<gordonjcp> and "comprendez pas"
<TOSDroid> Ooops swype fail
<mgdm> daubers: I'm really cheerful, me!
<gordonjcp> if you find the rare cop that speaks english, switch to gaelic
<TOSDroid> Limit
<daubers> mgdm: :p
<gordonjcp> if they say "anglais", say "non, ecossais, vive six nations!"
<TOSDroid> Here
<TOSDroid> Too
<gordonjcp> it's all good
<TOSDroid> At least yours keeping me entertains whilst waiting gord my train
<DJones> If it wasn't for the Scots, we wouldn't have some of my favourite things, Haggis & Whisky :)
<DJones> TOSDroid: Did you have a good afternoon
<diplo> Whisky maybe, but seriously Haggis ?
<diplo> :D
<awilkins> Ooh, haggis, neeps, and tatties. So going on the list.
<DJones> All in favour of haggis? +1
<mgdm> haggis is ace
<mgdm> +1
<TOSDroid> djones. Yes. :h
<daubers> +1
<dashroom> long live haggis
<dashroom> +1
<daubers> Best haggis I had was in a little pub somewhere in the middle of nowhere near loch lomond. I believe I was both lost and very hungry at the time
<diplo> Really... Even my true scottish gran doesn't like it :)
<TOSDroid> Gosh. Wtf it's haggis all about. Bit like tripe but packaged better
<awilkins> Urrgh
<gordonjcp> haggis ftw
<mgdm> I quite fancy that for my tea, but I don' thave any
<awilkins> At least Haggis has non-disposable bits of offal in it
<gordonjcp> TOSDroid: it's a kind of spicy sausage, you've clearly never had any
<awilkins> Intestinal linings are designed to wear out and be gone in days
<daubers> TOSDroid: If you get it done well, with some nice mash and a bit of gravy you'll be in heaven
<gordonjcp> aww yeah
<daubers> Fantastic with a good pint of ale :)
<gordonjcp> I want haggis now
<DJones> daubers: Best haggis I had involved a lot of whisky as well, new years eve party, everybody in the house except me & a Scottish RSM drinking whisky all night in the garage/bar waiting for his pipers to come down the road at midnight
<awilkins> Haggis, heart, lungs, liver, oats, spices, wrapped in a sheeps stomach
<TOSDroid> I've just had a nice naga curry. Nom nom
<gordonjcp> I just had some gyoza
<daubers> DJones: Last time I drank whisky all night, it took me 5 hours to regain the ability to walk
<awilkins> They call gyoza potstickers in the USA
<TOSDroid> Don't really care what the matt was although out was supposed to new chicken
<DJones> daubers: This party was next door to my house, I remember leaving next door (not what time) but don't remember getting home
<daubers> heh :)
<mgdm> gordonjcp: I suspect haggis is happening for tea on Sunday night
<mgdm> (tomorrow's taken care of)
<daubers> Speaking of whisky
<DJones> Party at mgdm's on Sunday
<mgdm> :D
<TOSDroid> I have a halloween party tomorrow night. We are going as the Munsters
 * daubers pours a glas of Glenrothes
<gordonjcp> mgdm: are you coming along to the noodle bar?
<TOSDroid> More drink
<mgdm> gordonjcp: what and when?
<TOSDroid> Train should be here soon. Yipee
<gordonjcp> mgdm: not sure of the specifics
<TOSDroid> Then north camp to ash value
<gordonjcp> the plan is to (possibly) dress up a bit and then go and sit in the noodle bar where it's warm and we have tasty noodles, and laugh at the people in the queue for the Garage
<TOSDroid> Vale. Then farnham
<mgdm> gordonjcp: tomorrow?
<gordonjcp> yes
<gordonjcp> wait, is tomorrow Saturday?
<mgdm> can't make it, I'll be in Embra :(
<mgdm> aye
<gordonjcp> ah
<mgdm> I've not been to the noodle bar yet
<mgdm> that likely needs rectifiied
<gordonjcp> I've been up since about 5am and I've driven 300-odd miles and sat in the hottest comms room in the history of radio equipment
<gordonjcp> for like an hour, at 30Â°C
<mgdm> eek
<gordonjcp> I can't tell bum from breakfast time at the moment
<TOSDroid> On a train. It's pointing the wrong way but I am assured it is the right one
<awilkins> Is it in Reading?
<TOSDroid> Is now going the right way.
<awilkins> Used to get disturbed by trains pulling into Reading and then reversing out
<TOSDroid> I was in redhill
<TOSDroid> Just liebig now
<TOSDroid> Leaving
<TOSDroid> Think I will go and see whats happening in the twittersphere...
<daubers> How did we miss welly wanging????
<DJones> With a name like that, I'm glad I have missed miss welly wanging
<mgdm> :D
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellie_wanging
<daubers> There's even an association
<mgdm> gordonjcp: sod burns suppers, but I'm all for the consumption of haggis/neeps/tatties and whisky any time of the year - I think this should be arranged :)
<daubers> If I was in the neck of the woods and whisky was to be drunk, I'd quite happily help
<mgdm> s/Happy Hour/Haggis Hour/
<mgdm> who's with me? :P
<DJones> daubers: A bloke I worked with years ago won the world bog snorkeling championship one year
<daubers> DJones: Excellent :D
<gordonjcp> mgdm: I think you're right
<daubers> popey: Is this list long enough and xenophobic enough yet?
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> d's friends always manage to coax me up by asking how many years of history Finland has... ahem. sorry bout that
<daubers> Myrtti: I just love it when Americans talk of having a "Long and proud history"
<Myrtti> ...
<daubers> Myrtti: Also, Finland is lucky by having the Monty Python people write a song about them
 * TOSDroid had something similar to welly ranging
<gordonjcp> daubers: :-)
<gordonjcp> daubers: I like to point out that I have a tree older than American history
<Myrtti> Finland didn't have an established border until 1323
<TOSDroid> It was %11
<mgdm> "welly ranging" sounds like guided wellies, which is just cheating
<mgdm> though I have to say that I like the idea of a laser-guided custard-filled welly
<TOSDroid> This is a hot train. Heaters on full blast... Phew
<daubers> Myrtti: First european settlers in america was 1492 or something
<TOSDroid> I sat on a flight back from the states once and the last next to me was surprised they built windsor castle on the flight path
<Myrtti> pretty much about 100-200 years before there was any literature in Finnish
<daubers> Myrtti: You have the advantage of being intelligent
<daubers> Myrtti: More than makes up for it
<TOSDroid> Ladyp
<TOSDroid> Hmmm
<TOSDroid> Trains and irc dont work too
<TOSDroid> Well
<TOSDroid> Anyone there?
<Myrtti> mm
<DJones> Yup
<TOSDroid> Ok
<TOSDroid> Thought it's been left hanging in the ether
<bigcalm> No
<DJones> But typing & drinking red wine doesn't work to well at the same time
<bigcalm> DJones: use a straw
<TOSDroid> Whose been drinking red wine?
<awilkins> A curly straw
<DJones> TOSDroid: +1
<mgdm> +1
<DJones> TOSDroid: Is there any other type of wine apart from "Red wine" :)
 * daubers just has whisky
<Myrtti> Im just eating, no drinks tonight
<bigcalm> awilkins: http://www.latestbuy.com/img/product-Images/dgls-350c.jpg
 * DJones realises why he's still got meat left on his dinner plate... The dog is at his parents house...Doh!
<Myrtti> creamy salmon soup tho, with spuds, neeps, carrots
<bigcalm> Yum
<bigcalm> Though I do prefer my salmon raw
<bigcalm> Has Flickr always been $24.95 for 1 year? I thought when I started it was that for 2 years. I may be very confused though
<No> Boo
<Guest38672> Am at guildford
<bigcalm> Where my 1st girlfriend was
<Guest38672> The beer was called  Wibblers Wobbly Wabbit
<DJones> Guest38672: You left your nick behind
<Guest38672> Yeah
<Guest38672> I dont really get irc
<Guest38672> It's all programed in my desktop
<bigcalm> I was wrong. It's been $24.95 for 1 year for always. Really surprised that Flickr haven't increased their prices since I joined in November 2005
<Guest38672> Will news signing off shortly. Have a nice weekend everyone
<bigcalm> Who was that?
<DJones> I'm assuming TOSDroid
<bigcalm> But whom was that?
<DJones> Similar ip, same irc client
<DJones> TOS = The OpenSourcerer
<DJones> on his anDROID phone
<bigcalm> Doh
<gordonjcp> 21:43 -!- No [~androirc@82.132.139.109]
<gordonjcp> 21:43 -!- No is now known as Guest38672
<DJones> :)
<bigcalm> It was his line "<Guest38672> I dont really get irc" that thew me
<gordonjcp> isn't that Bruno?
<gordonjcp> No`
<bigcalm> Don't think No` would join without his `
<bigcalm> * TOSDroid (~androirc@82.132.211.241) has joined #ubuntu-uk
<bigcalm> * No (~androirc@82.132.139.109) has joined #ubuntu-uk
<bigcalm> Same ISP
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: true enough
<pcmechanic> Evening
<AlanBell> evening
<bigcalm> Morning
<bigcalm> (eventually)
<pcmechanic> greets from the north east. Its bloody cold here but at least its not pissing down for a change !
<mattt> how cold
<pcmechanic> brass  monkeys ! Im not far off newcastle so its always that bit cooler here
<mattt> pcmechanic: i didn't know northerners got cold!
<mgdm> I thought they wandered around in t-shirts despite it being -5
<mgdm> </stereotype>
<pcmechanic> HA! well as a rule I'd normally agree but tonights an excception
<pcmechanic> heating on for the first time
<MartijnVdS> ever?
<pcmechanic> not far off it
 * bigcalm lobs a seagull at mgdm
 * pcmechanic ducks
<mattt> :P
<pcmechanic> fecking seaguls
 * mgdm lobs a haggis back at bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> Think I got the better end of the deal
<pcmechanic> oh i like haggis ! food of kings (aslong as its served with neeps n whisky)
<mattt> yuck :(
<pcmechanic> :D
<pcmechanic> that reminds me - large bag of haggis n black pepper crisps in the cupboard
 * daubers heads to bed
<pcmechanic> that'll do nciely
<funkyHat> Why isn't tfl suggesting central line > picadilly line as an option to get from shepherd's bush to holloway road? It seems to be less stops than hammersmith & city > picadilly
<TOSDroid> At ash vale. Trim to farnham in 7 mins.
<TOSDroid> Not sure I want last orders now... Might just get cab straight home. What do you think?
 * AlanBell suspects the cab won't go past the sandrock
<TOSDroid> Hmmm
<gordonjcp> funkyHat: good move
<gordonjcp> funkyHat: Amos Grove
<TOSDroid> Mornington cresent
<funkyHat> I think that's an invalid move
<gordonjcp> yes
<TOSDroid> This is the royal flush rules though?
<gordonjcp> yes, but you have to place a Geordie before even starting your Modernist Slide
<gordonjcp> it's right there in the rules
<gordonjcp> go on, have another shot
<TOSDroid> Hmmm.
<TOSDroid> Picaddlilly
<funkyHat> Baker Street
<gordonjcp> Turnpike Lane
<TOSDroid> Ealing broadway
<funkyHat> Putney Bridge
<TOSDroid> London bridge
<gordonjcp> West Brompton
<TOSDroid> Farnham :)
<gordonjcp> o_O
<TOSDroid> Off piste but a great move
<gordonjcp> that's a bold move, what's the method?
<TOSDroid> Turin
<gordonjcp> aah, got you
<gordonjcp> good stuff, right this is going to get messy if I am to avoid knip
<gordonjcp> Kew Gardens!
<TOSDroid> Googe street and im off. Nn
<funkyHat> AND Mornington Crescent!
<TOSDroid> Bab
<gordonjcp> funkyHat: well done
<gordonjcp> funkyHat: it's a lot harder playing Glasgow rules, because there are only 15 stations on a circular route
<gordonjcp> so you need to introduce surface rail and bus routes
<funkyHat> gordonjcp: yes that is awkward
<mgdm> gordonjcp: OK, then, Exhibition Centre
<funkyHat> Almost as awkward as actually trying to cycle in Glasgow ;D
<gordonjcp> mgdm: Partick
<Myrtti> the hell are you playing
<mgdm> gordonjcp: Anderston
<gordonjcp> !
<gordonjcp> hang on, is Central High Level in play?
<mgdm> I don't see why not
<gordonjcp> okay, then Central to St Enoch
<mgdm> Interesting
<mgdm> Blantyre
<gordonjcp> oh, it's like that is it? Mount Vernon
<mgdm> Croy
<gordonjcp> Bishopbriggs
<mgdm> seeing, as we are, playing Victor rules
<gordonjcp> of course
<mgdm> Yoker
<gordonjcp> otherwise the whifflet line would have been invalid
<gordonjcp> oooh, Garscadden
<mgdm> Bridgeton
<gordonjcp> Central Low Level
<mgdm> cheeky!
<mgdm> Dalmarnock
<gordonjcp> Chatelherault
<mgdm> Duke st
<gordonjcp> <sharp intake of breath>
<gordonjcp> Argyle Street
<mgdm> eep
<gordonjcp> haha, you know what's coming next
<mgdm> Dalmuir!
<gordonjcp> oooh, you jammy sod, I have to elide this now
<gordonjcp> right, Rutherglen
<mgdm> ooft
<mgdm> Right, then, Pollokshaws East, ya bam
<gordonjcp> hah! Paisley Gilmour Street \o/
<mgdm> ooo you tricky deveil
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> well you gave it away with Bridgeton
<mgdm> bah, so I did
<mgdm> Partick Central, and hence, Kelvin Hall!
<gordonjcp> damn
<gordonjcp> well played
<gordonjcp> of course ending on Kelvin Hall means the next meeting is in the Three Judges
<mgdm> Therefore, you've let yourself in for Brewdog. I win \o/
<AlanBell> so, um, what was that all about then?
<gordonjcp> Mornington Crescent
<gordonjcp> but we played to the Glasgow rules, Victor edition
<AlanBell> ah, I see
 * RaycisCharles pees on AlanBell
<gordonjcp> naturally with Glasgow Central High Level in play, which opens up the Inverclyde and Ayrshire Coast lines as long as the Class 380 Amendment Part III is allowed
<mgdm> damn, that means I could've had Wemyss Bay
<mgdm> which is the first time anyone has said that
<gordonjcp> aha, as a former contractor I could have had IBM
<gordonjcp> but that's unsporting if there are no other IBMers playing
<mgdm> heh heh
<AlanBell> Charing Cross scores under London and Glasgow rules
<mgdm> indeed
<gordonjcp> yes, of course
<gordonjcp> I'd love a game where someone played *both* Charing Crosses
<mgdm> shame there's not a train station at Glasgow airport
<gordonjcp> ye
<AlanBell> oh, maybe treat Charing Cross and Queen's Park as wormholes
<AlanBell> although having rules such as that might undermine the point of the game
<gordonjcp> hahaha
<gordonjcp> when I was little I used to think that two places with the same name were connected by wormholes
<gordonjcp> made perfect sense, a little fold in the continuum of space-time where you stick the edges together
<gordonjcp> makes much more sense than *two totally different places* having the same name
<gordonjcp> how confusing would that be?
<AlanBell> quite agree
<gordonjcp> mgdm: it's worth remembering that you can also play pre-modernisation rules but that mostly just renames the underground stations
<mgdm> yeah
 * mgdm heads to sleep
 * gordonjcp needs to run mrs bagpuss_thecat home first
 * awilkins requires sleep
<bigcalm> Finally got around to watching the Code Breakers prog on Bletchley Park. Very well done BBC Wales :)
 * danfish is asleep - please be quiet
<Myrtti> *SHUSH* DANFISH IS SLEEPING
<bigcalm> SORRY? WHAT DID YOU SAY?
<Myrtti> HE IS ASLEEP
<Myrtti> BE QUIET
<bigcalm> WHOOPS, i'LL HUSH THEN!
<freakyclown> WONDER IF danfish HAS BEEP ON HIS IRC NOTIFICATIONS!?
<danfish> right that's it, I'm shutting down the internets for the night
<freakyclown> :O
<freakyclown> the whole internets?!
<Myrtti> NNNOOOOOOOOO
<freakyclown> nooo
<freakyclown> thats it im phoning google and telling!
<danfish> sudo service internets halt
<Myrtti> *taptap*
<Myrtti> still works
<danfish> did it work?
<Myrtti> HA-HA
<Myrtti> fail.
<freakyclown> imagine if you had lost connect just around then
<freakyclown> that would have scared the bejesus out of us!
<danfish> freakyclown: that was only a dummy run ;) prepare for the real thing
<danfish> (the real command involves a blood sacrifice to google, icann and Tim Berners-Lee)
<freakyclown> i wonder if my cern account gets me near that box...
<czajkowski> freakyclown: :o
<freakyclown> what?
<czajkowski> boo
<danfish> czajkowski: halloween's not for 3 days ;)
<danfish> so no boo'ing - upsets the kids :P
<freakyclown> aggghh fsake whats my password to log into cern damn it!
<freakyclown> sweeeeeeeet
<freakyclown> http://www.freakyclown.com/Screenshot%20at%202011-10-28%2023:33:42.png
 * AlanBell wonders how many guesses at freakyclown's password will lock the account out :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-29
<dogmatic69_> how can i allow connecting on some port from inside a network? i can telnet from locahost but not another server :/
<dogmatic69_> even over public i cant :(
<tonytiger> Off to homecamp this weekend. If you're going, say hi!
<ball> What is homecamp?
<daubers> Morning
<ball> mornin'
 * daubers waits for the coffee to brew
 * ball shouldn't drink coffee at 01:57, but it's tempting.
<daubers> \o/ coffee
 * daubers needs to go buy a computer headset :(
 * ball needs to go to bed.
<ball> ...and perhaps to buy a more modern PC.
<daubers> heh
<ball> Uh oh. Fork's out of bed.
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> Morning canonipopey
 * daubers wonders if klas olufson sells soldering braid
<DaveBug> daubers: I believe it does
<DaveBug> Morning all!
<czajkowski> aloha
<jacobw> morning
<kvarley> I've just installed pidgin-skype and when I go to add my account there are two options. "Skype" and "Skype (D-Bus) What does the D-Bus option do?
<popey> bah, memory fail
<czajkowski> popey: what did you forget, get bacon for saturday sandwich breakfast
<popey> hah
<czajkowski> cause that would be fail
<popey> forgot what gnome 3 fallback mode was called
<popey> czajkowski: much planned in the evenings at UDS?
<czajkowski> popey: tuesday so far for UW, after that probaly wednesday the florida loco event which is on the LD
<popey> I happen to have a hire car
<czajkowski> :o
<czajkowski> i can haz bacon sandwich and tea
<czajkowski> good start
<feisar> I have a local .deb I'd like to install but 'dpkg -i' is not pulling in the deps should I be using ap-get?
<feisar> *apt-get
<nperry> feisar: apt-get install -f will fix it for you
<nperry> If I remember rightly, don't seem to install local debs anymore
<feisar> nperry: thanks, the repo version of OpenERP is old so I'm using the .deb from their website
<popey> you could use gdebi
<popey> which will pull in deps
<popey> instead of dpkg
<feisar> oh right cheers
<andrewebdev> guys... my unity panels and launchers just dissapeared
<andrewebdev> all i have is a menu bar at the top of the screen for nautilus
 * MartijnVdS blames gord 
<andrewebdev> problem persists when I restart
<andrewebdev> anyone know what the Binary is called for compiz-config-settings manager?
<MartijnVdS> ccsm
<MartijnVdS> but that tends to break things worse, not fix them
<MartijnVdS> (For me anyway)
<AlanBell> unity --reset can sometimes help a bit
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I had a crash that wasn't even fixed by that yesterday
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: had to log out, remove all traces of compiz/unity from ~/.compiz, ~/.config etc.
<MartijnVdS> and then it worked again
<MartijnVdS> for some reason the unity-panel-services wouldn't start
<AlanBell> yeah, if you use ccsm unity tends to get it's revenge on you in the end
 * MartijnVdS wonders why they didn't work _with_ compiz but _against_ it
<AlanBell> I just had to enable a different alt-tab switcher, the unity one is not working for me at all
<MartijnVdS> I mean they might not accept their patches back but at least test your code
<andrewebdev> yeah that's why it started to break :(
<andrewebdev> I enabled the unity plugin again now
<andrewebdev> and now it's all back
<AlanBell> I have no idea why the unity switcher wasn't done in a separate plugin like all the other switchers
 * AlanBell has reconfigured nearly all the IKEA stuff in the house in a big swap
<AlanBell> which means I now have a big drawer and shelving unit in my office that I previously painted with glitter paint when it was in a small person's bedroom
<AlanBell> and a 50cm deep IVAR unit sideways fits 19" rackmount servers perfectly
<MartijnVdS> so do LACK tables
<dwatkins> I'm off to Ikea today to get Ivar shelves for my box room. I'm hoping I can cut them up to completely fill the space.
<AlanBell> they are quite cuttable
<AlanBell> the uprights are, no point cutting shelves
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I'm somewhat annoyed they discontinued a lot of the useful bits
<danfish> IVAR? LACK? It's like you are all speaking a foreign language :P
<penguin42> if you're going to cut them why not just go to B&Q and get contiplas cut to size?
<dwatkins> penguin42: I might, yes. Having one pre-cut unit is fine, as it'll fit, the rest of the space isn't quite right for full sized units
<penguin42> (although I could believe that Ikea might be cheaper for planks to cut)
<dwatkins> The Ivar units are 1720x500mm, the room itself has a door in the centre of one long side and measures 1240x2270mm
<gordonjcp> I want to shorten an Ivar shelf by about 150mm
<dwatkins> It looks like cutting the Ivar units might not work so well, as one end of each shelf appears to be routed.
<AlanBell> can be done, but some non-trivial machining to get the metal out and re-cut a new edge
<dwatkins> The single Ivar units are less deep, that might help.
 * dwatkins gets out some paper to cut up
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: well, it's not *particularly* routed
<gordonjcp> you could knock the metal out by bending the tangs up with a paint scraper
<gordonjcp> then just make a saw cut down the end once you've cut and reshaped it
<gordonjcp> I modified a 500mm deep shelf to fit a 300mm pair of uprights, to make a TV stand
<gordonjcp> with a short 300mm upright lying on its side under the front of the shelf to support the weight of the CRT
<dwatkins> heh, my TV stand is an Effektiv unit, also from Ikea ;)
<dwatkins> They don't seem to have the individual units on their website, though.
<neuronlunch> anyone good with touchpads... ?
<danfish> afternoon all
<danfish> the better half wants a new phone (not iphone)
<danfish> was thinking of a wildfire s
<danfish> anyone got any comments/experience with one
<danfish> ?
<dwatkins> What does she want out of her phone, danfish? Keyboard, big display, fast cpu etc.?
<penguin42> pink case? Swarovsky crystals....
<mattt> afternoon
<MartijnVdS> \o mattman
<MartijnVdS> matttman even
<mattt> MartijnVdS: up to anything exciting today?  :)
<MartijnVdS> I've been playing with Wi-Spy, a GPS-dongle, my laptop and Kismet
<danfish> dwatkins: not too much - not an overly large phone - just for email,facebook and calls
<matti> MartijnVdS: ;)
<MartijnVdS> now to plot everything on a map..
<dwatkins> danfish: I have an HTC Ace (aka Desire HD) and it's got quite a large screen. The smaller HTC Desire is rather good too.
<danfish> dwatkins: I've got the Desire myself and am happy with it (though running cyanogen). My wife thinks it too big though :(
<dwatkins> danfish: just asked a friend of mine which she has, as her phone is very small but still fully functional
 * MartijnVdS has the Galaxy Nexus on pre-order
<nperry> MartijnVdS: What price have you pre-ordered it out?
<MartijnVdS> nperry: Â£520-ish at clove.co.uk
<nperry> Reckon it would drop, as I have seen some higher prices then that.
<MartijnVdS> SUre, they'll be cheap in a year
<MartijnVdS> but I need a new phone now(ish)
<dwatkins> danfish: ah, she says it's the Desire Z she has, but it's not so small and may not be available anymore
<SuprEngr> Super Engineer is now Billy Baker on G+... damn their real names policy !  :}
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: there are 500.000.000 Billy Bakers on G+
<Azelphur> SuprEngr: same, it's so stupid lol
<Azelphur> there are far, far more people that know me as Azelphur than as my real name
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Even your parents! :P
 * penguin42 thought they were going to change the rules
<Azelphur> huh? o.O
<shauno> don't be silly, people's parents don't use g+ :)
<SuprEngr> yep! dasft... but it took 3 name changes (chances?) before they'd allow my real name!
 * penguin42 wonders if there are any people who really have single names that have managed to register
<SuprEngr> ...so like many others, I'm now on there as a name nobody knows!
<SuprEngr> G= executive board meeting total script:  "doh!"
 * penguin42 is wondering what to do with his work google apps account, it's now got G+ enabled, but that would mean there would be two of me, and that would confuse me
<SuprEngr> penguin42,  sounds like a good plan.... doctor, penguin42 is ready for his appointment ;)
<dwatkins> danfish: how about the Wildfire?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I had 2 G+ accounts, so I deleted the non-APps one
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: But I wouldn't do normal commenting and stuff on a work apps account one
<MartijnVdS> ah work
<MartijnVdS> I have my own domain in apps
<penguin42> so you can share stuff with yourself?
<MartijnVdS> so it's more a "family" apps account
<MartijnVdS> no with my parents, brothers, sister, etc.
<nperry> Hmm the Natwest & RBS android apps look nice, shame I bank with Halifax...
 * nperry waits
<Azelphur> penguin42: they finally allow G+ on google apps?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh as of a few days ago
<Azelphur> nice, same predicament as you then
<MartijnVdS> you can enable it on the Apps control panel
<MartijnVdS> s/can/have to/
<Azelphur> k fun, wonder what I'm supposed to do now then
<Azelphur> I have a google plus account and a youtube account on @gmail.com that I'd ideally like to move
<Azelphur> and adsense, then I wouldn't have to account hop all the time
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I can change the google account that's linked to my Youtube account
<Azelphur> yea I just read that, will try it :D
<shauno> 'account hopping' doesn't bug me too much, but I wish it'd remember which acct I use for each service
 * penguin42 doesn't have a problem with hopping - I don't use my home account on my work computer
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: apparently I can't, because I didn't create my youtube account prior to may 2009
<Azelphur> :/
<MartijnVdS> Aww
<RaycisCharles> Jimmy Saville is dead.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: He couldn't fix that
<RaycisCharles> I'm too young to know wth he is.
<RaycisCharles> He was on HIGNFY years ago.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: Was well known DJ, presenter of childrens TV prog, and general nutter
<RaycisCharles> Ah, I see.
<RaycisCharles> He wore yellow tracksuits and chunky gold slabs around his neck.
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> somewhat eccentric but mostly harmlessly
<RaycisCharles> I dunno, he could be a paedo.
<Azelphur> penguin42: figured it out yet?
<penguin42> what?
<Azelphur> (16:13:49) ***penguin42 is wondering what to do with his work google apps account, it's now got G+ enabled, but that would mean there would be two of me, and that would confuse me
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'm not wondering that hard - and it's weekend
<shauno> nah, he just dressed dodgy because he was a 70s relic
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> I'm trying to find out
<MartijnVdS> Bwahaha http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15494984
<AlanBell> won't happen
<MartijnVdS> It gets proposed every few years though
<AlanBell> political suicide
<AlanBell> if they did it then it would probably be safer overall and generally better
<AlanBell> however . . .
<AlanBell> every single road crash in the morning would be blamed on the change
<AlanBell> whether or not it would have happened anyway. It will be pictures in the papers and politicians blamed for deaths
<MartijnVdS> yay sensationalist UK media ;)
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> you just can't put a picture in the paper of a lorry crash not happening in the afternoon that would otherwise have occurred :)
<MartijnVdS> just do it gradually
<MartijnVdS> Five minutes per summer/winter time switchover ;)
<AlanBell> 30 seconds per day :)
<MartijnVdS> or that :)
<AlanBell> I can see no fault in your logic there :)
<shauno> I think they should just fix europe instead :)
<MartijnVdS> technically "we" (= the Netherlands) would be better on UK time
<MartijnVdS> Time difference between Greenwich and Amsterdan is about 19 minutes ("noon")
<MartijnVdS> I blame trains and Germany ;)
<shauno> I'm mostly unsure what they're trying to solve.  If you find it difficult to account for a Â±1hr timezone difference, there's bigger issues
<MartijnVdS> shauno: But what if you calculate it the wrong way around and arrive 2 hours early (or late!)?!
<penguin42> IMHO it's a much bigger disadvantage that we'd be one hour further out from the US which would make meetings harder
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: making meetings with the US harder sounds like a GOOD thing to me
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well if we have to have them, then having them at silly hours is not good
<MartijnVdS> you'll be a time zone closer to India though
<MartijnVdS> so more call centres could move
<shauno> outsourced call centers don't tend to care what timezone they're supporting
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I imagine they're cheaper if they're "closer", time-zone wise
<MartijnVdS> because of fewer night shifts
<shauno> I guess that'd have to assume that night shifts are renumerated similarily around the world
<diplo> Evening all
<diplo> Anyone recommend any regex tutorials, basically have a fair few avi files with text in them that i want to rename in bulk if poss
<diplo> Regex never been my strong point
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596528126.do
<MartijnVdS> diplo: or maybe http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596520694.do
<matti> ;]
<shauno> I just remembered everything breaks tonight \o/
<mgdm> You're upgrading to Oneiric?
<shauno> nah, I stick to LTS
<shauno> but this daylight savings nonsense breaks every single year.  without fail
<mgdm> I've never had a problem with it breaking things
<shauno> our nortel server is in the states, so it wants to switch DST off next week, not this week
<mgdm> ah
<geekMePlease> Is there any device to copy one SSD to many SSDs?
<geekMePlease> * I want to have one clean 11.10 always as a backup in another SSD
<Azelphur> are they all the same make and model of SSD?
<geekMePlease> Azelphur: Yes, OCZ Agility 3
<geekMePlease> 60gb
<Azelphur> geekMePlease: very easy to do with dd
<geekMePlease> Azelphur: How?
<Azelphur> dd if=/path/to/ubuntu of=/path/to/destinationdrive
<Azelphur> be careful to get it right, it'll entirely overwrite the destination drive with the contents of the ubuntu drive, they will be exactly the same.
<geekMePlease> I have only x60 currently. Is there any base-station like for USB to get many SSDs connected to your laptop?
<geekMePlease> DX seems to have http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dual-hdd-usb-3-0-docking-station-for-2-5-3-5-sata-hdd-ssd-94300 at least
<Azelphur> geekMePlease: USB + SSD = terrible idea
<geekMePlease> Azelphur: yes, I look now for basestations with firewire
<Azelphur> firewire is the same
<Azelphur> if you want to utilize the speed from your SSDs, sata or eSATA
<geekMePlease> Azelphur: can you convert your internal memory-card reader of x60 to sata drive?
<Azelphur> huh?
<AlanBell> usb3 is pretty quick isn't it?
<AlanBell> if you have a usb3 port that is
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: I have 1.5
<Azelphur> AlanBell: not as quick as a SSD
<geekMePlease> AlanBell: sorry, I mean usb 2
<geekMePlease> 2 usb 2 and one usb 1
<shauno> if it's just a one-off job to image a disk, I wouldn't worry about the bus too much
<AlanBell> ok
<geekMePlease> shauno: ok, I will then get simply the usb + ssd thing
<geekMePlease> to copy a few ssds
<Azelphur> ah, just looked it up, USB 3 is ok
<Azelphur> USB 2 will bottleneck on a decent SSD though
<geekMePlease> Azelphur: Ok, I will get usb 3 base station then, since I update my laptop in the future
<shauno> usb2 will bottleneck pretty much anything.  It's pretty ugly really
<geekMePlease> there seems to be USB3 adaptors for X60 and X61 Thinkpad, need to get one
<Azelphur> :)
<diplo> heh cheers MartijnVdS, sorry kids went manic
<diplo> I will take a look at buying that but something for tonight whilst the kids are in bed, will take a google around
<daubers> urgh, sorting out my warhammer spares, got an awful lot more than I thought I did
<czajkowski> peeka boo
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<Myrtti> popey: mind the snakes in FL
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<SuprEngr> hmmm... freezing earthworms males them easier to sharpen...  double hmmm
<SuprEngr> [quess what I've dot on tv]
<SuprEngr> got
<bigcalm> Dust?
<SuprEngr> ;)
 * SuprEngr is glad that someone thinks even my dust is important enough to be spelt with a capital 'D'
<SuprEngr> [hope my ashes are given same respect]
<MartijnVdS> qixl time!
<SuprEngr> cheers m
<SuprEngr> M
<SuprEngr> cheers MartijnVdS  - switchin now
<Myrtti> oh man
<SuprEngr> ...and to think that some peeps are out there watching news & documentaries - when QI   & HIGNFY are both on
<Myrtti> I may have miscalculated the shrinkage of my selfmade knitted to-be-homefelted hot water bottle covers
<SuprEngr> ouch!
<Myrtti> may end up with mobile phone pouches instead
 * SuprEngr wants a hand knitted mobile phone pouch ;)
<SuprEngr> [but wonders if a hand knitted mobile phone would work!]
<Myrtti> options are pink, and pink-dark brown-gray stripes
<SuprEngr> anythinthing but the pink-on-pink would do nicely please
<SuprEngr> ...so here we are  - on a UK support channel - talking hand knitted mobile phone pouches... that's the beauty of U_UK ;)
<SuprEngr> [& I still want one pretty please]
<luigi_> hello
<Myrtti> lets see what size they end up in first
<luigi_> which program can i use in a tv media usb?
<Myrtti> luigi_: huh?
<luigi_> yes I have tv tuner
<luigi_> but which program can i use?
<SuprEngr> luigi_, what do the files on the usb have as a suffix [xxxx.suffix]
<luigi_> ?
<luigi_> i dunno
<luigi_> because i have a usb
<luigi_> tv tunner USB
<luigi_> and it doesnt recognise
<SuprEngr> luigi_, can you see the files in nautilus?
<luigi_> im sorry xD
<luigi_> i dunno how to do that
<luigi_> :(
<SuprEngr> luigi_, put the usb in a usb 'socket' on your computer
<luigi_> ok
<luigi_> then?
<SuprEngr> does anything happen? [wait a few seconds]
<luigi_> nop
<MartijnVdS> luigi_: check /var/log/kern.log
<luigi_> do i have to type that in terminal?
<MartijnVdS> luigi_: can you put the last 20 or so lines from that on pastebin?
<luigi_> yes
<luigi_> what is the webpage
<SuprEngr> ...over to you MartijnVdS
<luigi_> i forget
<MartijnVdS> luigi_: just open the "Log viewer"
<MartijnVdS> it's in the application search thing
<luigi_> ok
<luigi_> im inside the log viewer
<MartijnVdS> open kern.log
<MartijnVdS> then browse to the end
<mattt> woo
<MartijnVdS> and open a web browser
<mattt> just realized we're not that far off from fosdem 2012
<MartijnVdS> and paste the last few lines on pastebin
<MartijnVdS> mattt: 3/4 months
 * mattt punches the air
<luigi_> ok
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<luigi_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/722673/
<mattt> MartijnVdS: you're in holland right?
<MartijnVdS> mattt: I am
<mattt> going to fosdem?
<MartijnVdS> luigi_: The last line says a new USB device is found, but there's nothing about drivers loading
<luigi_> nop
<luigi_> yeah i saw that
<MartijnVdS> luigi_: so I'm afraid you're out of luck, and that specific tuner isn't supported
<MartijnVdS> mattt: maybe
<luigi_> no ? :(
<luigi_> can i use windows emulator?
<MartijnVdS> luigi_: for drivers, very unlikely
<MartijnVdS> mattt: it's only a 2 hour drive
<luigi_> :(
<mattt> MartijnVdS: no excuses then :D
<MartijnVdS> mattt: I don't know about parking space :)
<MartijnVdS> in Brussels
<MartijnVdS> that's my new problem ;)
<MartijnVdS> Before, I knew I could get there (by train), but couldn't take much stuff
<MartijnVdS> Now I have a car, and I can take stuff, but I don't know where to park it :)
<SuprEngr> MartijnVdS, take a car sized suitcase... book into a hotel & take it to the room with you ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: well it _is_ a SMART
<SuprEngr> ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: so it'd probably fit in the elevator without changes
<SuprEngr> MartijnVdS, forget the suitcase... a rucksack will do for a SMART
<SuprEngr> time for bed, said Zebedee.... boing said Florence
<MartijnVdS> good idea
<MartijnVdS> but..
<MartijnVdS> tonight's an hour longer than usual
<MartijnVdS> also, F1 tomorrow mornig
<MartijnVdS> +n
<SuprEngr> and Indian F1 on in morning is reason for beddy bies for me now ;)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mattt> MartijnVdS: it's residential around that FOSDEM venue tho, parking shouldn't be a problem
<MartijnVdS> mattt: good point
<SuprEngr> ;)
<mattt> woah, 11 PM already
<MartijnVdS> mattt: -1 because of the time zone change tonight
<Myrtti> well
<Myrtti> they're too big to be phone pouches
<Myrtti> but my Sony Reader PRS-650 fits nicely
<diplo> If anyone is about, can anyone recommend a cheap gigabit switch
<diplo> ?
<penguin42> no, but there are loads about
<diplo> yeah, seen lots just after recommendations really.. got to go in front room so would like it quiet
<diplo> I've got quite a few switches at home incl a GS724T but it's loud as you like
<penguin42> how many ports?
<diplo> 8 I reckon, just found this... wondering whether is cheap is a bad idea
<diplo> Always had named products
<diplo> http://www.ebuyer.com/262942-tp-link-tl-sg1008d-8-port-gigabit-switch-tl-sg1008d
<diplo> http://www.ebuyer.com/260471-cisco-linksys-se2800-8-port-gigabit-switch-se2800-uk
<diplo> Â£15 dearer :/ - Problem is things are tight but can't see the point if it's going to be shite
<penguin42> it depends what you want it for; if it's just a distribution switch for stuff then one of the little desktop switches will do
<diplo> yeah basically got a HP Microserver/Revo/Desktop/Lappy all with Gig ports and everything running on 100mb
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Stream all my movies / series from the HP box to the revo
<Azelphur> apparently we have cold fusion now o.O http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/29/rossi-success
<penguin42> hmm
<diplo> nice
<penguin42> it's a bit odd Rossi has been doing odd demonstrations for a while but never enough or open enough to convince people
<mattt> MartijnVdS: ah, true .. forgot about the tz change
<diplo> blimey, carriage is nearly the same as the price of the switch
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-30
<knightwise> morning
<danfish> morning - kids don't understand the clocks going back :(
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> I just wake early
<czajkowski> most flipping annoying
<czajkowski> as a kid I slept
<czajkowski> right bye
<MartijnVdS> danfish: It's not just kids :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: I just ignore the switch as much as possible ;)
<MartijnVdS> time for a run
<danfish> MartijnVdS: enjoy
<danfish> all I can say is thank god for curious george
<MartijnVdS> danfish: that makes them so sleepy..? :)
<danfish> nah - a kids movie that I can wack on and have a few minutes sleep on the sofa myself :)
<MartijnVdS> ah, surrogate parent ;)
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> morning
 * daubers cleans the kitchen ready for bread making
 * MartijnVdS orders photos
<MartijnVdS> They have a Linux app(!) which installs in a custom dir in ~ using a Perl script
<MartijnVdS> it's built with Qt
<MartijnVdS> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruidvat)
<awilkins> Never knew that Superdrug was half-owned by Dutch people
<awilkins> Buut, is now half-owned by Chinese people
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Shell, Unilever, :)
<MartijnVdS> F1 in 5 minutes
<daubers> woot, bread dough now rising
<daubers> need to get some plain flour to make shortbread too
<MartijnVdS> hm shortbread looks easy enough ;)
<daubers> It's very easy! Just butter, flour and caster sugar
<MartijnVdS> I have those
<MartijnVdS> I also have sugar with some vanilla
<AlanBell> morning all
<KrimZon> hi
<MartijnVdS> howdy KrimZon
<KrimZon> I'm having some trouble with grub at the moment, if anyone can help - I started with ubuntu 10.04 dual booting with XP booting into ubuntu by default
<Lcawte> Some of these make me :)/lol http://cafedegeek.com/1070/30-geeky-wallpapers/
<KrimZon> then I installed 11.10 on the XP partition, and it boots to that by default, but I have to go into 11.10 in order to change boot configuration in startup manager
<KrimZon> and when I try to change default, the offset ends up off by one
<KrimZon> so I'd rather just want to edit it from 10.04 but don't know how
<awilkins> KrimZon, In 11.10, you can control it more manually by editing /etc/default/grub and following the instructions at the top of the file
<awilkins> KrimZon, The OS choices in their order are stored in /etc/grub.d/
<KrimZon> thanks
<KrimZon> would copying its configuration and doing the same in 10.04's grub config files work?
<awilkins> KrimZon, Not sure about 10.04 .. the bootloader is outside the OS, so doing it correctly on any grub installed should work fine
<awilkins> KrimZon, Having checked on my 10.04 VM, it seems to use the same config scheme
<daubers> 8 pitta breads sat resting before being ovened
<awilkins> MMm, fresh bread
<awilkins> I am inspired to think about possibly maybe making some focaccia
<daubers> focaccia is nommy
<daubers> Been ages since I made some of that
<awilkins> Picked up some tips from "great british bakeoff" that I'm keen to try
<awilkins> Apparently I've not been making the dough wet enoug
<awilkins> I thought the sloppy wetness was a mistake in the recipe I was using, or variance in the flour, so I adjusted it to make a more "bread like" dough
<awilkins> But apparently it's what's supposed to happen
<mar_33>  when I working in developing python program this error appear  UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 2-5: ordinal not in range(128)
<mar_33>  any help??
<AlanBell> mar_33: unicode is fun :)
<mar_33> ???
<AlanBell> where does your string come from?
<mar_33> from wizard programmed by python
<mar_33> when I wanna chose any thing this appear
<MartijnVdS> mar_33: you need to distinguish between bytes and characters
<mar_33> :(
<AlanBell> http://farmdev.com/talks/unicode/
<MartijnVdS> http://docs.python.org/howto/unicode.html
<mar_33> thanks :)
<KrimZon> hmm, I can't figure out what it's doing
<KrimZon> I can't see it referring to partitions or uids anywhere
<KrimZon> or where grub itself is installed to
<mattt> morning morning
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmm
 * Pendulum waves to Ubuntu UK from a very snowy Connecticut
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> Snow? In October?
<MartijnVdS> We're having summer weather on this side of the ocean
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: http://www.guardian.co.uk/weather/2011/oct/29/snow-storm-northeastern-united-states
<Pendulum> I spent last night on a cot in an airport
<Pendulum> which was surprisingly safer than my house because by the time my flight got cancelled, there'd been no power for 4 hours
<mattt> Pendulum: you live out there?
<Pendulum> mattt: yes. hang out here because most of my mates are in the UK :)
<mattt> ah
 * mattt misses the snow
<mattt> <-- originally from toronto
<Pendulum> I expect snow in December - March
<Pendulum> maybe 1/2-1" in October or November
<Pendulum> not 8+ inches
<mattt> yeah
<mattt> i don't think the trees are even prepared for that
<Pendulum> I don't mind it when it's expected
<Pendulum> yeah
<mattt> probably why the power outages right?  :)
<Pendulum> the town I'm live in has 100% outage
<Pendulum> the town the airport I'm in has 99% outage
<mattt> :(
<mattt> jeez
<mattt> anyway, gotta jet, good luck!
<Pendulum> thanks!
<daubers> Afternoon
<mattt> yoez
<Pendulum> hiya
 * daubers is attempting to remember how to use Django
<mattt> urls.py, views.py, models.py
<mattt> or something
<mattt> :P
<shauno> mmm pie
<daubers> mattt: Indeed :) pydev deals with all that. I just need to remember how to use it's methods :)
<mattt> i've written one django site, but always need to refer to documentation when doing anything
<mattt> don't program in python/django enough to know it off the top of my head :(
<mattt> ugh, wifi in cafe is so slow :(
<mattt> what's the easiest way to comment indented code in vim?
<mattt> (while retaining indentation)
<constrictor> any scala users here
 * AlanBell is struggling with vala
<daubers> mattt: I find the same with django. Use it infrequently enough to always need docs
<AlanBell> can't seem to find how to do the equivalent of a python dictionary, like : partner = {'name': 'Fabien Pinckaers','lang': 'fr_FR'}
<daubers> However, I have now written a simple http->matt bridge using django :)
<daubers> s/matt/mqtt
<mattt> mqtt?
<mattt> AlanBell: not the slightest clue :(
<MattJ> daubers, post-only, or?
<MattJ> I need to finish my Lua MQTT library
<MattJ> Ah nice: https://github.com/geekscape/mqtt_lua
<MattJ> Now that's taken care of I need to not get distracted by all the things I was going to use it for
<sadsun> good afternoon
<SuprEngr> Dear England... catch up! Russia's got the right idea... Russia has not put its clocks back for winter this year, decided the country would stay permanently in summertime.
<sadsun> funny... u guys wanna join the timezone, but not the euro currency
<dutchie> AlanBell: https://live.gnome.org/Libgee will probably have something in it
<daubers> MattJ: post-only at the moment
<SuprEngr> sadsun, oooh... nasty!
<SuprEngr> ;)
<shauno> I don't want to join the the timezone.  I still don't see any benefit
<daubers> MattJ: It's more to get around the fact that there is no mqtt library that works on the nanode :)
<sadsun> it is easier if the uk joins the cet zone
<daubers> sadsun: It won't happen. Scotland will veto it as the last time they tried something similar there was an increase in RTA's in Scotland
<shauno> easier for what? people who can't count to one on their fingers?
<sadsun> actually I dont understand why the whole world doesnt have just 1 timezone
<daubers> (on a similar note, I'd veto it as it's dumb)
<daubers> sadsun: It's to do with daylight
<SuprEngr> I need daylight!
<sadsun> nobody uses a sundial anymore
<daubers> sadsun: Go dig up the swatch internet time thing
<daubers> sadsun: No, but people expect daylight during daytime hours.
<shauno> you'll always have some variation of timezones.  if you put the entire planet on UTC, you wouldn't find australia working 9-5.  So you'd still an offset for all practical purposes
<MattJ> So when you want to speak to someone in Australia you have to figure out what hours they wake up and go to sleep at
<MattJ> Much easier :)
<daubers> MattJ: I've had to deal with some countries where you have to figure out if they're actually working on that day
<MattJ> Though this is coming from someone who keeps their watch in GMT, no matter where in the world he is and what DST rules they have
<AlanBell> daubers: I don't think there was an increase in RTAs just the papers reported all the morning RTAs which would normally not be newsworthy
<sadsun> uhm... i think it is more practical to have the entire planet on UTC.... installation of Ubuntu will be shorter as well ^^ the timezone questions can be skipped
<shauno> as someone who grew up in scotland, I'd find walking to school before dawn just because someone has problems remembering paris is an hour forward, rather annoying
<AlanBell> sadsun: I think you are right
<SuprEngr> just wait.. 5pm "tonight"...England looses a smile... cheers to all slow coach MPs!
<sadsun> yay, got one vote :P
<SuprEngr> but isn't UTC the equivalent of what we went back to today?
<AlanBell> almost
 * SuprEngr frowns
<daubers> This is an interesting read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time
<shauno> we're on GMT now.  UTC isn't usually more than a second or two off GMT
<SuprEngr> I want daylight!
<daubers> There's lots of good reasons for having DST, and not very many good ones for not having it (other than convenience)
<shauno> I dont' mind DST, but I wish they'd agree on the same night to switch
<shauno> .au switched a few weeks ago, we switched last night, north america switches next week .. that's the bit that causes me problems
<SuprEngr> it's ok having daylight saving - but you can't cash it in when you've saved it
<daubers> shauno: It is standardised across the EU
<shauno> that doesn't help me much :)  so far today I've had to call the US, singapore and australia
<SuprEngr> it's cool to let the Scots keep a different time [& sny other northern lattitude county]
<SuprEngr> whoops... country - soory Scots
<shauno> you think splitting the UK into multiple timezones would be less problematic than having to remember the continent is on a different time?
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh that's the problem, for those of us who work with people everywhere, UK time isn't too bad
 * penguin42 believes a flat earth is the answer to this quandry
<daubers> shauno: I dislike dealing with Aus, doing tech support for them is a right pain in the bum
<gord> its like 2pm in the uk right now right?
<penguin42> yep
<SuprEngr> shauno -the Scots are very cool with the idea [generally]
<gord> awesome, much closer than last week
<AlanBell> gord: 10am there?
<gord> yup
<AlanBell> ok, so sessions start at 1PM uk time
<penguin42> right, so just have to see if Google calendar got the .ics I imported last week right
<shauno> daubers: the only real problem I have with .au is that they're always asleep when I need them :)
<gord> not a bad time for sessions, people working can catch a few in the evening i guess
<penguin42> gord: I think your lunch break ends up at about 6pm as well, which is just nice
<SuprEngr> I've got an idea... the whole world moves to one time zone, one superstore for shopping and one rstaurant to eat! no way, jose!
<SuprEngr> no - please don't reply - that was just too provocative ;)
<shauno> if we moved to a unified timezone, I'd end up discovering that london time isn't worth what I thought it was, and end up working on US-Eastern :(
<sadsun> ozzies are celebrating xmas in summertime... they have the same calendar as us... why not timezones
<SuprEngr> shauno, london time is never worth the effort!
<shauno> I still see no benefit to changing it :)
<shauno> if anything, I think spain/france/portugal should move to gmt
 * SuprEngr hopes no ops live in londinium... their  revenge
<SuprEngr> ....
<SuprEngr> shauno, or gmt +1?
<shauno> they're already on +1
<SuprEngr> correct
<shauno> I don't think they should be.  Paris is geographically 8? 9? minutes ahead of london.
<SuprEngr> impressed with that piece of knowledge
<gord> um. changing timezones wouldn't really help anything, i mean, people in australia are still going to go to work 12 hours ahead of you
<SuprEngr> yeh, but they've got wallabees & kangas... we don't.
<SuprEngr> there *is* a rationale for correct diuversity
<SuprEngr> *diversity
<gord> the only thing it would do is make it easier for the lazy to never have to do maths :P
<SuprEngr> :_D
<sadsun> lazy? its just more pragmatic ^^
<shauno> they'd still have to do math, to figure out when different countries will be in office hours.  it just wouldn't be as simple as typing "time sydney" into google anymore :)
<daubers> sadsun: It actually makes life more complicated for a lot of people
<sadsun> how, daubers ?
<daubers> sadsun: I know that the majority of the world works 9am-5pm, a quick look at a clock on a wall can tell me what time it is in many countries. Make everyone on the same timezone and you now need to know the office hours for every country
<daubers> Makes it more complicated than just having two or three clocks
<sadsun> so we will work from 8am to 4pm... I do not see the problem
<daubers> sadsun: Whats the office hours in Oz?
<daubers> sadsun: Egypt?
<daubers> sadsun: Thaiwan?
<sadsun> many ppl have nightshifts these days
<daubers> sadsun: Those are exceptions though. The majority of businesses work 9-5 in their timezone
<shauno> you think you're going to convince australia to become nocturnal to save you having to count?
<sadsun> nope, they work from 5pm to 9am
<penguin42> given that when I'm not working I wake up at like midday UK time, it would be easier
<sadsun> UTC time
<daubers> sadsun: So we're back to my original point. You now need a lookuptable to figure out who works when, rather than a couple of clocks in different timezones
<sadsun> in netherlands you can often choose which shift you can work... 9-5 shifts are less common hete
<sadsun> here*
<penguin42> until you find someone doing 28h days
<daubers> sadsun: I bet the majority of office are open from ~9-5 though. Doesn't matter what shifts the staff are on, those would be the office hours
<sadsun> 8 to 6 actually
<daubers> still covers the given period
<shauno> 9-5 is the archetype of when you can expect the business to be available, rather than a specific shift that someone's working
<daubers> If I rang that office between 9 and 5 I could do business with them
<sadsun> yes, but it is done by 2 shifts 8-4 and 10-6
<shauno> yeah, we do 6-6.  but if oyu call between 9-5, you can expect us to answer without having to know in advance that we're 6-6
<daubers> sadsun: That doesn't matter! If I want to do business with that company I can ring at anytime between 9 and 5 and get through to someone
<sadsun> okay...
<sadsun> and if the company is in new zealand you cannot do this...
<daubers> sadsun: I call between 9 and 5 in their timezone
<daubers> I don't need to know their office hours, just their timezone. With no TZ's you have to go dig up peoples office hours
<daubers> Should realy stop feeding the troll and do some work
<shauno> you pretty much end up doing exactly the same math, but calling it something else
<sadsun> why cant the kiwi's have a company that advertises that they work from 21:00UTC to 5:00UTC and continue living in this UTC timeset?
<shauno> would you like to work night shifts for the next 40 years?
<sadsun> 21:00UTC to 5:00UTC would be daytime for the kiwi's
<shauno> but then you're back to having to find out what time they're in the office, instead of being able to make a sensible guess
<daubers> Stupid router
<sadsun> dont have to do this anyway?
<sadsun> dont you have to do this anyway?*
<shauno> nope.  I have to remember that dubai's weekend isn't the same shape as ours
<daubers> what lookup peoples office hours? No, I just ring them between 9 and 5 in their time zone
<daubers> wheres RMS's parrot when you need it
<sadsun> but you have to look up their timezone
<shauno> other than that, it doesn't matter if I'm calling ghana or seattle, I can make a fair guess whether they're in the office, asleep, or at lunch
<daubers> sadsun: I have 5 clocks on the wall, I just look up
<penguin42> sadsun: Well you just look on their calendar - right?
<gord> geez bluetooth really goes out of its way to be utterly useless
<shauno> having to look up their gmt offset vs having to lookup their 'office hours offset' is zero gain
<shauno> a whole lot of work for zero gain
<sadsun> and you think 5 clocks is pragmatic?
<daubers> sadsun: Yes. It's cheap, easy and I only have to sort it out once
<daubers> they're also being replaced with a high def TV with maps connected to google analytics and other work databases soon :)
<sadsun> well, i'm sorry, but I do not see it that way, I think it is unnecessary complication
<daubers> Hooray for random data on displays
<shauno> removing their gmt offset doesn't remove that complication.  It just replaces it with exactly the same complication, with a new name
<shauno> you still have to discover that NZ is 13 hours away
<sadsun> yup, but no need for 5 extra clocks, timezone installation questions/programming and celebrating newyears twice controversies :P
<daubers> Until we have people constantly living off planet, the current system is fine
<daubers> sadsun: So what you're saying is thet the little bit of work you have to do once is annoying so everyone else should do more work every day to make up for it
 * sadsun can't wait for stardates XD
<daubers> gotcha
<SuprEngr> [off-planet?  Iwas *born* off-planet!]
<SuprEngr> [I only came here as a favour]
<shauno> I'd still have 5 clocks :)  (well, 3)
<shauno> us-east, here, sydney.  singapore & europe I can derive from those without getting too confused
<daubers> I have a GMT, LA (whichever name that timezone has), Sydney, Japan and Dubai
<daubers> clock
<daubers> As those are the people I tend to deal with most often
<popey> moo
<daubers> o/
<shauno> I'm kinda bummed that singapore don't do DST.  during the summer, they're us-east + 12, so I can double-duty the same clock :)  for most things, I just use http://time.is/ now tho
<daubers> shauno: I'm looking forward to replacing the clocks with a big display. Get server response readouts on it and the list of coding/support priorities
<shauno> we went the other way around.  we used to have a map with little dots all over it, 5 years ago
<shauno> business is now good enough that the dots made the map unreadable :)
<daubers> shauno: Heh, we're  just reaching the point where we're struggling to keep up with demand. Floods in Thailand aren't helping
<penguin42> daubers: Why? I'd heard that there were a lot of factories out (hard drive factories in particular)
<penguin42> man ssh
<penguin42> oops
<penguin42> sloppy focus, meets sloppy user
<daubers> penguin42: Yeah, we build NAS systems with big RAIDs in them. HDD's will be going into contention shortly. Prices have already jumped 20-25% wholesale
<penguin42> daubers: Ah messy, and what with there only being about 3 hard drive manufacturers now it's nasty
<daubers> penguin42: Yeah. Only seagate aren't really affected and they'll be hit by the motor shortage
<sadsun> time to go ssd?
<penguin42> daubers: Ouch hadn't heard that they all shared components like that; I guess it's similar to the chip mess with Japan having most of the production of some of the resins for chip manufacture
<penguin42> sadsun: Not when you're into multiple TB unless you have very deep pockets
<sadsun> ah yeah... that'll be expensive...
<daubers> Heh, we sold a 24 drive system to japan the other day with 600GB SSD's in it
<daubers> that was an expensive toy
<shauno> I can't wait for a sane solution to external ssds
<penguin42> daubers: Nice
<shauno> lacie came out with a nice little thunderbolt drive, and then priced it into stupidity :(
<rafi> Hi
<daubers> shauno: Meh, thunderbolt is dumb, wait for USB3
<shauno> my laptop doesn't have usb3  lol
<daubers> shauno: Macbook Pro?
<shauno> yeah
 * penguin42 worries about thunderbolt - it's basically PCI-e, so it's going to need a SATA controller; I guess there is no real reason that PCI-e<->SATA should be any more expensive than a USB-3<->SATA
<daubers> :) Thunderbolt is an extension to the PCI-E bus, we've seen problems with people who load the pci-ebus on their macs already when they use thunderbolt
<penguin42> daubers: Like what type of problems? security sounds scary
<shauno> isn't a usb3 controller going to sit on pci-e too?
<penguin42> yeh
<daubers> shauno: Not based on the current architecture, macs have terrible pcie buses
<penguin42> it's all serial protocols - too many; spend all our money converting between PCI-e, GigE, SATA, US, HDMI
<daubers> penguin42: Graphics distortions, dropped ingests as the ingest card drops off the bus, macs crashing
<penguin42> daubers: Ouch, the graphics is odd - isn't the graphics on them a separate channel?
<daubers> Yes, there''s an issue with the earlier models that means the signals interfere
<daubers> they released a f/w update to fix it, but still happens if the bus is congested
<penguin42> daubers: If they're running them over the same channel they're going to have frankly unsolvable prioritisation problems
<daubers> I also find it fun that it was originally an optical connection, and Apples method of forcing it to an electrical connection is to put what is essentially a really crappy optical to digital chip on the board
<penguin42> daubers: Is it the similar trick to 10GbE where some of them do copper?
<shauno> I was under the impression copper was Intel's move, to get it to ship in anything near a sensible timeline
<daubers> penguin42: Ish, CX4 is actually a pretty good cable
<penguin42> daubers: Nod - it's used by everything isn't it? short 10GbE, infiniband, SAS
<daubers> shauno: Nah, it was Apple. I did notice that Intel wanted it to be licence free, but Apple own the trademark on the name "Thunderbolt"
<shauno> really? Intel claim they own it too
<daubers> Funny that :)
<daubers> It'll be the next firewire
<shauno> I don't see that as a bad thing.  firewire rocked :)
<daubers> shauno: Shame no-one used it because of the licences involved (and the trademarked name)
<penguin42> the name didn't make much odds - I've got the IEEE whatever ports on both machines here
<penguin42> (did have a play with remote debugging with it once)
<daubers> A lot harder to market a device with a name like "IEE1319whatever"
<shauno> I use it, because usb2 seems to really struggle with harddrives
<shauno> got a friend in biomed who used it for data capture, because usb2 was pretty terrible at that too
<daubers> Yeah, lot of video people have to use firewire 800 or more for capture. USB2 peaks at something like 25MB/s and it's a bursty protocol
<shauno> yeah.  usb2 peaks at roughly two thirds of it's theoretical max; and that's if nothing else dares use the same bus
<shauno> which makes it pretty painful on laptops, where most integrated peripherals are hardwired to the bus
<daubers> I just tend to use a NAS these days (funny thatâ¦â¦)
<shauno> I have an external firewire drive for bootable backups
<shauno> but even day to day, usb2's 'issues' come up.  my phone syncs much faster off one usb port than the other, for example
<shauno> (one shared a bus with the IR receiver; the other shares with keyboard/trackpad/camera/bluetooth .. the difference is pretty noticable)
<daubers> phone, sync, usb? Ah! iPhone?
<shauno> yeah.  I still push music down the wire because it's much faster than wifi
<daubers> I let spotify do that, or U1
<shauno> spotify isn't available here :/
<daubers> where's here?
<shauno> Ireland
<shauno> we get everything last, because it's not worth fighting with record labels, just to reach the 72 people still here who haven't emmigrated yet
<sadsun> use stealthy.co
<sadsun> and pretend u r in the UK
<shauno> I could just proxy via my vps
<shauno> but to be frank, once they ruin the convenience factor, it's easier just to use 'other means'
<gord> time to spend some of my sunday learning the wonderful world of LUA
<jacobw> afternoon
<popey> Evening everyone
<popey> gord: whats the weather like?
<popey> shall I bring my thermals?
<bigcalm> Evening popey
<popey> lo
<bigcalm> Whole family off state side?
<popey> no, just me
<popey> went away for the weekend though
<bigcalm> Aye, noticed the hotel mentions
<bigcalm> Was UDC a last min surprise?
<bigcalm> UDS
<MartijnVdS> not for those attending...
<bigcalm> :P
<Laney> it's actually pretty windy
<popey> bigcalm: yeah, i only joined the company this week so the flight was only booked on friday
<popey> so kinda surprise yeah
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] I am soo Tired of the Endless Desktop Flame Wars - Can we Please all Stop This? - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/i-am-soo-tired-endless-desktop-flame-wars-can-we-please-all-stop
<ali1234> nope
<mattt> good weather in florida?
 * penguin42 gets impressed with what Gnome's 'seahorse' can do - create .ssh key pair and then stuff it into the authorized_keys on a different machine
<penguin42> but I am getting confused by authorized_keys - I'm trying to set up something restricted by command and it seems to be ignoring it
<shauno> someone needs to get new england a snow shovel & a cup of bovril :/
<penguin42> got it, heck sshd needs to be a bit more arsey about authorized_keys - it's wrong that a badly formatted line means the key is free to do anything
<MartijnVdS> for me, badly formatted lines just don't allow the key in at all
<MartijnVdS> well, mis-pasted keys that is
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Correct, but if you try to add an option to the key - e.g. command= and you break that line then the following key is unrestricted
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<MartijnVdS> that sounds like a boog
<penguin42> I'm not sure if it's actually a bug or a lack of paranoia, but I think it should be paranoid
<MartijnVdS> Syntax error? Ignore line!
<MartijnVdS> (and log)
<MartijnVdS> (so sysadmins can actually figure out why it isn't working)
<penguin42> well, that's the other thing - I don't see any log entries for it
<MartijnVdS> not even the "authenticated" log line?
<penguin42> Well I see the Accepted publickey for ....   but nothing to indicate a screw up
<MartijnVdS> I'd fillet a bug
<MartijnVdS> Filleted bugs are the best
<penguin42> yeh, I suspect best to do it upstream
<penguin42> You don't get much of a fillet out of a bug
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: One filleted bug: https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1947
<lubotu3`> bugzilla.mindrot.org bug 1947 in sshd "Log authorized_keys format issues and refuse to accept keys" [Normal,New: ]
<penguin42> right, now to make some dinner
<SuprEngr> So Mr. popey...vee meet at last!
<SuprEngr> Vot do I expect, Mr. popey ... I expect your G+ Angry Birds to dieeee! [insert maniacal laughter as appropriate]
<popey> er
<popey> Ok.
<SuprEngr> ;)
<DJones> When do you head off to the states popey?
<AlanBell> any vala gurus about?
<popey> tomorrow morning DJones
<DJones> Hope its a productive time, probably feel a bit strange going as staff rather than a willing volunteer
<penguin42> does tha tmean we can actually blame popey for things now?
<gord> popey, i assume you are buying everyone bears in celibration when you get here ;)
<penguin42> glacier?
<gord> beers...
<gord> or bears
<gord> whatever
<popey> gord: ho ho ho
<penguin42> popey: Do you know what you'll be doing?
<popey> gord: kinda
<popey> er
<popey> penguin42: kinda
<MartijnVdS> Telling people all Unity bugs are actually ayatana features
<penguin42> quick, someone assign him all the impossible bugs
<DJones> I'm sure bug 1 has been assigned to him :)
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<MartijnVdS> "Unity crashes a lot" -> "Wont fix. This is actually a feature to force you to take breaks"
<MartijnVdS> "Alt tab is slow" "Wont fix. It's a feature."
<MartijnVdS> it's _the_ reply to Unity bugs
<penguin42> popey: Your job is to find a sensible animal whose name starts with Q
<MartijnVdS> quagga. Done.
<MartijnVdS> quixotic quagga
<penguin42> it is probably the only one isn't it
<SuprEngr> Quintessential Quagmire?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: quail
<penguin42> it's certainly better than the quadrate pebblesnail
 * MartijnVdS liked the rolling releases story from keybuk
<penguin42> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_animals_that_begin_with_the_letter_Q
<quagga> Yay! Quagga!
<MartijnVdS> hi quagga :)
<quagga> Hullo!
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Quixotic Quagga would work well; still how about the Quiet Quetzalcoatlus ?
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the wrap-around to Chilled Chupacabra
<penguin42> X is going to be tricky
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: lots of Latin names with "Xes
<MartijnVdS> Xerus: a type of ground squirrel from Africa.
<smittix> evening all
<MartijnVdS> smittix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AIX_SMIT ?
<awilkins> My daughter has decided that X-Factor is more important than my company.
 * awilkins sulks
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Next birthday, tell her beer was more important than a present
<popey> :D
<awilkins> Yay, she's changed her mind
 * awilkins is happy
<penguin42> awilkins: You buy her  a PVR?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "â« Oh Lord, won't you buy me a huge PVR" (an update to the classics...)
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: My friends all have VCRs ?
<MartijnVdS> something like that :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: from the same set: "âª We all live in a Windows subroutine"
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and the all-time classic "Deadlock holiday"
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well, you never want a Deadlocked Raster
<popey> gord: i have something on my desk for you
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: exactly
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: oh and don't forget "London Rain (Nothing Heals Me Like Youtube)"
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/e0ysr/i_wrote_a_song_while_my_code_is_busy_notworking/
 * awilkins has a 1TB MythTV box, she doesn't need another one
<awilkins> I wrote a song to the tune of "Hey Hey We're the Monkees"
<MartijnVdS> What did it become?
<awilkins> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/723619/   # Darwin's Monkeys
<awilkins> This was some time ago now.. it's embedded in a Slashdot post somewhere
<ali1234> lyrics fit well to money for nothing by dire straits
<ali1234> monkeys for nothing and your chimps for free
<penguin42> sorry, you're making me think of Leonard Cohen
<DJones> Am I right in thinking that when using byobu instead of screen to run irssi, to reconnect to the session, I still need to run "screen -dr"
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you just run byobu
<ali1234> it reattaches by default
<DJones> Thanks, I wasn't sure & found that screen -dr worked anyway
<ali1234> yeah it will
<DJones> I've got no doubt I'm going to forget that a multitude of times
<ali1234> byobu just runs screen with a custom configuration file
<DJones> Its something I've kept meaning to try but never got round to it, decided I'd give it a go while I'm finishing off setting a replacement server up
<popey> I quite like it
<DJones> Interesting, you can have two devices connected to the same byobu session
<MartijnVdS> screen -x \o/
<popey> yeah, and you can both be on different windows too
<mattt> why use byobu over screen?
 * mattt kicks it oldschool
<MartijnVdS> popey: at work we have a machine where we even do multiuser screen
<MartijnVdS> popey: (it's setgid or something)
<popey> ace
<MartijnVdS> it can be a bit scary ;)
<popey> mattt: pretty
<DJones> I doubt I'll ever need that, was just testing that I had access from an external ip using connectbot and was expecting my laptop to disconnect, it was a bit disconcerting seeing it still connected :)
<mattt> popey: that's it?  :/
<popey> mattt: yes
<popey> DJones: -rD will disconnect
<popey> rather than -rd
<MartijnVdS> there's even some option to make screen disconnect OR create a new screen with the given name
<DJones> popey: Under normal circumstances, I'll only ever have one connection anyway, I'll need to read the man page
<popey> screen is _awesome_
<popey> byobu just makes it a tiny tiny bit nicer
<DJones> Apart from the info in the bottom couple of lines, I don't see much difference in how it looks, but no doubt there's a lot of extra options that I've not looked into yet
<MartijnVdS> there's bashish - http://bashish.sourceforge.net/
<mgdm> I use zsh with some bits of https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh
<mgdm> but I'm more interested in a nice working environment rather than eye candy ;)
<Azelphur> I have both, compiz \m/
<Azelphur> compiz + easystroke = eye candy with epic usability
<mgdm> I can use most machines if they have a decent browser, terminal, and Vim
<Azelphur> haha, I'm the opposite mines customized out the ears and takes a while to set up from a fresh install
<diplo> Guys, just been given a 2tb external drive, going to pair it with my microserver to make some backups, the server runs natty server
<diplo> Any recommendations on what to use to backup
 * MartijnVdS uses rsync + crontab
<diplo> rsync, rsyncsnapshot ?
<diplo> yeah was what i was going to go with
<MartijnVdS> I used rsnapshot before, but its config file is HELL
<diplo> Sounds the advice i wanted :)
<MartijnVdS> ("My God, it's full of _significant tabs_")
<popey> i use rsnapshot
<popey> just works
<MartijnVdS> (and don't put in two where there was one before!)
<popey> once you get over the stupid config file format
<mgdm> +1 from me for rsnapshot
<diplo> May give it a go then, going to plug it in before bed and try tomorrow at work
<mgdm> and yes, significant whitespace can sod off
<mgdm> make is terrible for it too
<diplo> Got to decide what to backup, 4tb of disc but only using 2.3 atm but only a 2tb external disc
<MartijnVdS> USB discs are shit. They die easily
<MartijnVdS> get a proper networked disk system (NAS)
<daftykins> true that
<daftykins> you'd want an external hard disks' mains adapter UPS'd just to save it from mains death
<diplo> This is just a braces thing.. already got backups.. just want to make use of a free external drive
<daftykins> that's how prior clients of mine have lost theirs
<diplo> Yea defo something I want to get in next few months is a ups
<MartijnVdS> as soon as I get fiber I'm going to make backups over the internet to my parents place
<diplo> I'm thinking of doing that to my work for photos/music
<diplo> No fiber here any time soon though
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Netherlands++ in that regard ;)
<diplo> heh, yeah UK sucks on that front :/
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: what's your connection like right now? in speed terms
<diplo> Been Virgin for years, currently on DSL for the first time ever i think for home use
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: currently, 16/1Mbit ADSL
<daftykins> nice :)
<daftykins> i'm on 16/768
<daftykins> could definitely enjoy far more upload
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: will get 500/500Mbit fibre "in November" :)
<MartijnVdS> 100/100 at first, but 500/500 before the end of Q1/2012
<daftykins> D:
<popey> heh, we're due to get 100Mb end of next year
<daftykins> any caps on that?
<diplo> Thats why I'm debating to go back to Virgin popey
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: only a speed cap :)
<popey> heh
<popey> daftykins: no
<diplo> But will miss some of the channels like Atlantic on Sky
<popey> no caps on the virgin top end
<popey> TV is overrated :D
<daftykins> yeah broadcast TV is a total waste of time
<MartijnVdS> I can get TV over IP with the fibre if I want
<daftykins> i don't even use it
<diplo> yeah it's not the end of the world for me
<mattt> i've seen them digging up the streets for miles around my place, presumably to run fiber or something
<MartijnVdS> but I have a satellite dish, so meh
<clockwatch> I saw a TV once, but I didn't like it
<diplo> Not sure I could get rid of Sky/Cable because of the quiet it gives me from the kids occasionally
<diplo> :)
<MartijnVdS> clockwatch: I have a nice 46" TV, works great for playing games or Blurays on the PS3
<mattt> diplo: :P
<diplo> But i do have DVD's of a lot of the stuff they watch, debated about spending the money i save on buying the series they watch on DVD instead
<MartijnVdS> diplo: yeah, imagine having to actually raise them ;)
<mattt> sky is reasonably priced, but once you start paying for sports it gets a bit ridiculous
<MartijnVdS> I pay â¬20/month for basic satellite TV, and on top of that I get your FreeSat channels for free ;)
<diplo> yeah just basic for me mattt
<daftykins> i don't think Sky is reasonable at all :>
<MartijnVdS> \o/ UK satellite TV
<popey> I dont buy DVDs anymore
<diplo> Now netflix is coming to the UK soon I may not popey
<diplo> Integration with XBMC as well would be great
<daftykins> :D
<mattt> we really need something like netflix
<MartijnVdS> popey: you just stream CBBC from iPlayer?
<diplo> I'd defo cancel it all then
<popey> MartijnVdS: yup
<diplo> mattt it's been anounced it's coming now
<mattt> diplo: yeah, i recall seeing something ... but it got lost with all the whining americans were doing about the price increases
<diplo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15427840
<diplo> early 2012
<diplo> Was debating Lovefilm but it sucks in comparison, and no way of integrating to XBMC yet
<Azelphur> yea I wasn't impressed by lovefilm either
<mattt> my gf had a lovefilm subscription a few years back, the selection was horrible
<diplo> Worst part of all of this is the MPAA/Studios.. licensing sucks makes it awful for these companies
<daftykins> optical media, so quaint it was
<daftykins> yeah i'd love a decent service on-demand, but no companies are ever going to make one decent
<diplo> I buy DVD's and instantly rip them
<daftykins> for example, if i had something that grabbed the latest HD episodes for a subscription i'd be happy
<diplo> Still to get myself a bluray unit to rip them :/
<diplo> Maybe a treat for myself for Xmas
<popey> surely you just end up with TB of media files that you never watch rather than stacks of optical media you never watch?
 * MartijnVdS does that with CDs, and I actually listen to most of them regularly
<daftykins> sure but is that data messing with the environment?
<MartijnVdS> I have >500 now
<diplo> I watch a lot of films tbh popey
<daftykins> do i have to go get it?
<daftykins> does it cost loads to get to me over my net connection versus a disc in the post?
<popey> diplo: how many times do you watch each one?
<diplo> And I now never get scratched DVD's from my kids
<diplo> out of the 400+ I have 50 probably more than once
<popey> my rule is if I'm going to watch it 3 times in my life I'll buy it
<popey> if not, I wont
<popey> doesnt make financial sense
<diplo> I never ever buy them brand new, I buy them at Tescos in bargain buckets :)
<diplo> Or online deals
<popey> i never see decent stuff in the bargain bucket â¹
<popey> i rarely look tho âº
<diplo> I started writing a app for XBMC where it randomly selects a film//music/series
<diplo> Well since wife left me I seem to have lots of spare time
<daftykins> write something eh
<daftykins> i do that by holding the up/down remote button with my eyes shut
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> heh, it was mainly for my kids, to replace having sky box on they just select 'Kids Series' and it randomly plays them something
<diplo> No argueing then
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> that's the only problem versus broadcast really, yeah
<daftykins> the decision making
<popey> E_TOOMUCHCHOICE
<diplo> Downside with sky i found, too many channels :)
<daftykins> and all full of crap
<diplo> yeah, Atlantic is a good new channel though
<mattt> yah, lots of rubbish on sky :(
<daftykins> the weird program "This is Jinsy" on Sky Atlantic is kinda amusing
<daftykins> written by two Guernsey people, parodying island life
<daftykins> can't imagine it really works for anyone that hasn't been a rock dweller though :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: is it like Burnstoun? :)
<MartijnVdS> +i
<daftykins> what's that?
<MartijnVdS> <Wikipedia> Burnistoun is a sketch show for BBC Scotland by the Scottish comedians Iain Connell and Robert Florence. The show is produced by The Comedy Unit.[1]
<daftykins> hmm not familiar
<daftykins> i probably wouldn't understand Scottish ;)
<MartijnVdS> It's just English with a thick SCottish accent
<MartijnVdS> S2E2 is on iplayer (and it's sketch comedy so it won't matter if you haven't seen it before)
<daftykins> that's what i mean :D
<daftykins> assuming it's as thick as some classic Rab C Nesbitt
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b010b6g5
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: _I_ can understand it, and I'm Dutch ;)
<daftykins> :>
<mattt> yeah, cuz the dutch sound equally as strange
<mattt> :P
 * MartijnVdS throws some clogs at mattt 
<daftykins> well i didn't want to comment...
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo04A82z9yA :)
<AlanBell> danfish: possibly interesting event tomorrow evening http://www.meetup.com/Integrating-the-Open-Enterprise/events/34972092/?a=md1.2o_grp&rv=md1.2o
<bigcalm> Is it possible to alter app links add to the Unity launcher?
<popey> possible: yes
<popey> easy: no
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Then I shall make do with what I have and carry on
<bigcalm> Unity does what it can to hinder productivity
<bigcalm> Resisting putting xubuntu-desktop on the laptop though
<diplo> bigcalm, I did that earlier
<diplo> it's faster and more stable
<diplo> But I don't think I like it enough
<bigcalm> I have it on my workstation just because I have multiple monitors. I'm doing what I can to use Unity on my laptop
<diplo> Going to try a distro still running 2.* I think
<diplo> Oneric has crashed 3 times in 2 days ( Locked ) can't find a reason
<diplo> Getting truly fed up with sluggishness
 * mgdm hasn't upgraded yet 
<mgdm> probably won't, either
<diplo> For me I wouldn't bother
<diplo> Time for the first time in years that I may try a new distro
<stevepdp> bigcalm: please forgive me for asking, but what did you mean by your question above?
<stevepdp> Are you referring to the right-click context menus?
<diplo> May go for a netinst of Debian and just install what I need
<stevepdp> I've been wondering how to go about adding items to the unity icon for Banshee
<stevepdp> adding next/previous track for example
<bigcalm> stevepdp: I refer to the column of application buttons down the left hand side of the screen in Unity on 11.04 and 11.10
<mattt> MartijnVdS: that's pretty good :)
<stevepdp> quite liking Unity over here
<StevenR> hrrm. is there a twitter/statusnet app that will let me show only twitter messages? (the new gwibber seems to lack that feature that old_gwibber had)
<FlippingYoda> Hi
<daftykins> FlippingYoda: hi
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-22
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to use 'convert' to keep no background when doing svg -> png?
<selinuxium> wondering of anyone was still up?
<Darael> At least one.
<selinuxium> Darael, Morning... :)
<selinuxium> I am up late as my Quantal update hasn't gone smoothly...
<Darael> Oh dear.
<selinuxium> yup... fun  fun fun! :)
<ali1234> barclaycard reasons why PDF statements are better than paper ones: "It's easy to get your hands on if you need to check it or prove your identity."
<ali1234> so apparently anyone who can make PDFs can now steal my identity. great.
<Azelphur> ali1234 all you need to steal someones identity usually is a bank statement xD
<Azelphur> people keep on asking me for mine and I'm on paperless billing, getting fed up with it I'll probably gimp a bank statement at some point.
<ali1234> previously that would mean breaking into my house
<ali1234> they also claim it is password protected
<ali1234> so how would i show it to anyone?
<MartijnVdS> print screen
<Azelphur> ali1234 just found this, figured it might interest you, http://hexgl.bkcore.com/
<Azelphur> it's open source and on github, seems pretty awesome
<ali1234> not bad for a browser game
<ali1234> feels a bit clunky, that might be because of keyboard controls though
<ali1234> the difficulty is much too high
<Azelphur> not at all, I love the difficulty
<Azelphur> finally a challenging game, without all this wishy washy crap
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> it's not really challenging though
<ali1234> you just have to drive slow
<Azelphur> no you don't, use air brakes
<ali1234> you still have to drive slow
<Azelphur> air brakes arn't brakes btw
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> they just make you go sideways really fast
<ali1234> also, how can you say it's challenging when you can't fall off the track?
<Azelphur> because you have durability, and to beat any of the records will be tought
<Azelphur> tough*
<ali1234> beat f-zero x big hand on ace difficulty, then talk to me about challenging :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Knightwise> mooorrning
<theopensourcerer> Morning earthlings
<Knightwise> hey theopensourcerer
<popey> pip pip
<Knightwise> hey popey !
<popey> yo
<theopensourcerer> How's Denmark popey
<theopensourcerer> ?
<Knightwise> sudo apt-get install superpowers
<Knightwise> package not found
<popey> theopensourcerer, expensive
<theopensourcerer> Gosh - already.
<popey> arrived, went to the bar
<theopensourcerer> What's a pint (or the equivalent) then?
<popey> ~5GBP
<theopensourcerer> (*&*%&^!!!
<popey> carlsberg
<Knightwise> i remember danish and swedish students visiting belgium
<Knightwise> and paying one euro for a carlsberg
<Knightwise> they thought they had died and gone to heaven
<Knightwise> hmm.. lightread is no longer in the repositories ?
<Knightwise> got an error on sudo apt-get install lightread
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19976271 I knew I would be fashionable again one day
<Knightwise> we shop in a store in Aachen from time to time that actually carries dirndles
<popey> Knightwise, 12.04 or 12.10?
<Knightwise> 12.10
<Knightwise> couldn't find fogger either
<popey> developer needs to update it to 12.10
<Knightwise> aj
<Knightwise> too bad :(  Loved lightread ! awesome awesome Rss reader
<ali1234> is the humble bundle stuff updated yet?
<Knightwise> soo well built it looks like a mac app
<popey> the 12.04 package probably works on 12.10
<diplo> Morning all
<Knightwise> hey diplo
<SuperMatt> morning
<JamesTait> Goooooooood morning all! :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<SuperMatt> heyhey
<SuperMatt> I hate this part in the ubuntu release cycle
<SuperMatt> there's naff all news
<czajkowski> give it a week
<popey> :)
<SuperMatt> ah yes, uds
<popey> UDS hotel is nice
<popey> if you like ikea
<popey> rooms are tiny though.
<popey> not that we spend long in them :)
<SuperMatt> I'd love to go to a uds, but I'd have to learn to develop first
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: narp! I'm not a developer and I go
<czajkowski> popey: that must be a bit awkawrd for some of the larger folk!
<popey> hah
<popey> single beds
<czajkowski> LOL  can just imagine the comments
<SuperMatt> czajkowski: surely it costs a fair penny though?
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: I've been rather fortunate to be sponsored in the past
<czajkowski> which is open to anyone to apply
<SuperMatt> nice
<popey> in fact all the rooms are configured with two single beds pushed together :)
<popey> czajkowski, seen the bathroom windows?
<popey> like brussels
<czajkowski> popey: how could I not not yesterday, anyone on my timeline there has been taking pics and posting :)
<popey> haha
<czajkowski> I think blokes are just a little bit more prudish and also more likely to take the piss of someone in there :)
<popey> </generalise>
<czajkowski> slightly but tis kinda true of that bunch :)
<popey> i dont think prudish is the right word
<gord> ugh they have bathroom windows again? the hell
<czajkowski> popey: maybe cant think of a more polite word for irc
<AlanBell> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285747_3881180870491_490360034_n.jpg for those lacking context
<popey> we're all mostly kidding about
<SuperMatt> DO NOT WANT
<gord> the ones in brussells did not have any visual obstructions and for people on the ground floor, just faced the window people were walking next to outside. and went directly into the shower
<popey> its more of a culture shock really, given a large number of people here are brits & americans, we generally never have this in our hotels
<gord> i just... i don't understand the logic
<popey> these have a door
<diplo> They're like that in the hotel I stayed at in Sweden
<Knightwise> looks like a star trek transporter
<shauno> I stayed in a hotel in prague that had an all-glass-walled bathroom.  I felt a lot like a goldfish.
<popey> yeah, something was materialising in the toilet there
<Knightwise> Ick ! :^p
<Neoti_Desktop> hey people how things ....
<popey> great!
<Neoti_Desktop> Cool...
<BigRedS> I'm surely not the only person who finds it crazy that an imap syncing tool can produce the error "No UIs were found usable!"?
<SuperMatt> I have no idea
<popey> \o/ Danish pastries! Thousands of them.
<gord> oh my god... its full of pastries
<Laney> jealous
 * BigRedS can't wait
<Laney> is it as close to the airport as it seems?
<BigRedS> Fosdem has waffles, uds has pastries. I need to go to more conferences
<christel> omnom.
<shauno> close enough
<czajkowski> popey: so instead of cat images this week we shall be getting food pics in our timelines :)
<BigRedS> I've had lots of pictures of showers...
<popey> Laney, yeah, 5-10 min taxi ride
<popey> longer on public transport I guess
<popey> but it's not far
<Laney> bah, taxi
 * Laney will be getting the tube thing :-)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<SuperMatt> heyhey
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS and SuperMatt
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon  !
<brobostigon> hey Knightwise
<oimon> anyone recommend any good flash game sites for toddlers that use keyboard, like cbeebies?
<popey> cbeebies?
<oimon> most i've seen require mouse
<popey> oh, why not mouse?
<oimon> cos munchkin is only 2 yrs old, and is better with arrow keys
<oimon> like the pingu and mr tumble hames
<oimon> he's not well :(
<popey> awww
<oimon> i've already had the "want to play games" strop that i thought would be a few years yet
<christel> we used to do http://www.kneebouncers.com/ a bit when david was younger
<christel> however they now seem to charge
<christel> how rude
<oimon> do the ARM chromebooks have internal storage?
<christel> (they have a freek 1 week trial mind)
<oimon> wow, he must be unwell, he's taken himself off to bed
<christel> awww
<ali1234> !info libwxgtk2.8-0
<lubotu3> libwxgtk2.8-0 (source: wxwidgets2.8): wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ runtime). In component universe, is optional. Version 2.8.12.1-11ubuntu3 (quantal), package size 3235 kB, installed size 8833 kB
<ali1234> !info libwxgtk2.8-0 precise
<lubotu3> libwxgtk2.8-0 (source: wxwidgets2.8): wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ runtime). In component universe, is optional. Version 2.8.12.1-6ubuntu2 (precise), package size 3177 kB, installed size 8694 kB
<oimon> at least the puking has stopped for now..until i get it
<ali1234> why do i have libwxgtk2.8-0 version 2.8.12.1-6ubuntu2.2?
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> ali1234: I'm going to guess that you have an app installed that needs it
<ali1234> how do i tell which one and where it came from?
<davmor2> ali1234: there is a reverse dep lookup but I've never used it so don't know how to trigger it.  Just google should tell you
<ali1234> it's from proposed, and has been deleted
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/amd64/libwxgtk2.8-0
<davmor2> ali1234: http://blog.hartwork.org/?p=108 second one is the one you want I believe
<ali1234> it's not installed due to a dependency
<ali1234> it's installed because i have -proposed enabled and installed wxgtk manually
<popey> moo
<davmor2> popey: Where you at dude?
<popey> Copenhagen
<Laney> i really want to stuff my face with pastries
<Laney> come on sunday
<Laney> (also, see all of my lovely Ubuntu friends again, of course *cough*)
<davmor2> popey: oooohhhhhhhhh get you and your jet setting ;)
<popey> Lunch was interesting
<popey> there was a sign next to some food saying... "Ass. Tapas"
<bashrc_> was it an executive lunch?
<Neoti_Desktop> lol.
<Laney> that hotel loves its ass, it seems
<knightwise> must be lunchtime
<alkisg> popey: hello, pad.ubuntu-uk.org is down, any ideas if it'll be up again, and when?
<popey> alkisg, ask Daviey
<alkisg> Thank you popey... Daviey, any help with that? ^
<motters__> trying the lubuntu desktop.  Pretty impressive on the CPU usage - or lack thereof
<nucc1> hi guys, I made the (in retrospect) grave error of installing the "google+ app" when firefox prompted me, and Now I cannot handle the barrage of notifications
<nucc1> any one know how I can get rid of it?
<motters__> I had that problem too
<Myrtti> well, the webapp extension crashes all the time
<Myrtti> nucc1: uninstall the deb package of it with apt-get
<motters__> I got fed up with crashes, and have been trying other desktops
<Myrtti> the gmail one is a bit awful too, I'd really rather have gm-notify, atleast on that I can choose which labels it shows
<dwatkins> Can't you simply turn the notifications off?
<Myrtti> nope.
<Myrtti> atleast I haven't found out how
<dwatkins> oh wow, that's surprising
<Myrtti> the only solution I've found is uninstalling the package and fiddling with gconf to get rid of the constant prompt
<AlanBell> unity-webapps-gmail is the package to remove
<popey> bugs filed?
<nucc1> Myrtti, it didn't feel like an apt-get install. it was a popup in the browser, and I wasn't prompted for any password
<AlanBell> or tweak the user.js file it installs
<nucc1> Myrtti, I was under the impression it was some kind of html5 offline storage stuff.
<Myrtti> nucc1: I know
<dwatkins> is it an add-on to firefox you can remove from within firefox, then?
<AlanBell> popey: the api for the messaging menu got trashed rather than deprecated so everything non-canonical using it got broken
<nucc1> it doesn't show up in firefox addons
<nucc1> Myrtti, any idea what the package name is?
<AlanBell> Bug #1040259
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1040259 in skype-wrapper "FFE: libmessaging-menu transitions for quantal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040259
<Myrtti> nucc1: unity-webapps-googleplus
<AlanBell> dwatkins: you can turn off the addon entirely, but not per-website
<AlanBell> there is a dconf key for it somewhere
<dwatkins> AlanBell: ah ok
<nucc1> Myrtti, thanks. quite a lot of them. I find that using Geary, I don't need any fancy gmail add-ons.
<AlanBell> com/canonical/unity/webapps
<nucc1> on an unrelated note, is there any chance that canonical will reveal any statistics about the "humble ubuntu download" contributions?
<bigcalm> nucc1: Canonical kept all of the money </troll>
<nucc1> bigcalm, fair enough IMO. they have contributed greatly to a great OS.
<nucc1> I just want to know if it has been successful
<popey> what money?
<popey> people didn't pay us, they paid humblebundle
<nucc1> the contributions that you can now make when you download ubuntul
<AlanBell> nucc1: I expect they will reveal stats if they are exciting
<jpds>  
<knightwise> whow
<knightwise> i just saw the demo video of Diaspora
<knightwise> Great cross platform game if you ask me
<popey> i dont think we've ever revealed financial details
<nucc1> AlanBell, oh well, I can live with that.
<knightwise> and for zero dinero
<nucc1> popey, yea, but seeing the way this was promoted, I think it will be helpful to reveal the stats for this drive.
<popey> it'll certainly be interesting to see
<nucc1> by the way, how did firefox manage to install debs without prompting for my password?
<davmor2> nucc1: Yes it has been a huge success and we will continue to offer support to them and them us ref HIB
<nucc1> davmor2, I was referring to the voluntary donations you can now make when Downloading ubuntu. I hope that's what your response was for.
<nucc1> If so, then that is great news. I have always wondered why this was not possible before, being the only real way I can contribute to Ubuntu.
<davmor2> nucc1: ah sorry I only coped the humble bit
<nucc1> i only used the word because of the similarities...
<nucc1> did ubuntu do a gig with the Humble folks?
<Darael> The more recent Humble Bundles have included the capacity to download the stuff through the USC.
<nucc1> ah, cool
<nucc1> i'm not much into games myself.
<Darael> Although I understand none of the games have been packaged for Quantal yet, the bundles having been released before 12.10.
<davmor2> Darael: the bulk of them are now on quantal
<nucc1> i've recently returned to ubuntu from an exile too :p, so this explains my lack of info
<nucc1> I like what the software centre is shaping up into.
<Myrtti> I should download the latest additions to the latest humble bundle into my Aldiko
<AlanBell> can you do ls ~/.cache/at-spi2-* |wc
<AlanBell> and tell me what the first number is
<AlanBell> I have 6704 directories in .cache relating to at-spi2
<diplo> AlanBell: Was that a general question asking ?
<diplo> If so mine = 0 :)
<AlanBell> diplo: ok, thanks
<AlanBell> it was a general question
<Laney> quantal?
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi2-atk/+bug/1020512
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1020512 in at-spi2-atk (Ubuntu) "Assistive Technologies is spamming .cache with many folders like at-spi2-AYBRGW for example" [Undecided,Fix released]
<AlanBell> yeah, quantal, and I use orca sometimes
<AlanBell> thanks Laney, lets see if they come back again
<Laney> did you check if they're still being created?
<AlanBell> they don't appear to be
<AlanBell> I removed them and have run orca with no apparent issues and it did not create new ones
<Laney> grand
<Laney> wish I hadn't commented on that popey status now
<czajkowski> Laney: why?
<Laney> too many notifications :P
<brobostigon> i just want to know, how popey did that.
<brobostigon> there is an android qemu port,
<AlanBell> I think it is a real install
<AlanBell> compiled for ARM and running native
<brobostigon> wow.
<ali1234> running ubuntu x86 in qemu on a tablet would not even be worth mentioning
<AlanBell> I don't see why it shouldn't be, but I want it confirmed
<ali1234> sure you can do it, but there's no point at all, ever
<AlanBell> yeah, that would be all kinds of wrong!
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i want to know how, aswell.
<ali1234> you can run windows on the N900
<ali1234> but... no
<AlanBell> one common way to get ubuntu on an android device is to run in a chroot (compiled for ARM) and get the display via VNC
<brobostigon> debian would be better, and also a more touch friendly gui.
<AlanBell> but I suspect this is a real install, not on the Android kernel and with display drivers rather than VNC hacks
<ali1234> "not on the android kernel" - unlikely
<brobostigon> yes, i would agree.
<ali1234> it will be the android kernel with software X11
<ali1234> or VNC as you said
 * AlanBell thinks a Linaro kernel
<ali1234> honestly i would rather just run ubuntu on a powerful server and vnc to that from the tablet
<ali1234> would probably perform better
<ali1234> there's no such thing as "linaro kernel" and "android kernel" it is all just linux
<AlanBell> true enough
<ali1234> the nexus 7 thing is going to be a big reveal at UDS? i thought it was just some clever hack someone made
<ali1234> that's... underwhelming
<Azelphur> what nexus 7 thing?
<ali1234> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/10/ubuntu-demoed-on-nexus-7-tablet
<ali1234> the one AlanBell was talking about above^
<Azelphur> :o awesome
<Azelphur> so that's native?
<Azelphur> not chroot?
<ali1234> a chroot is native
<ali1234> -_-
<ali1234> it's literally as native as you can get
<Azelphur> well, true
<Azelphur> I already have Ubuntu running in a chroot though
<ali1234> exactly
<Azelphur> oldnews is old
<ali1234> and it wouldn't take much to have it running outside that chroot
<ali1234> because... drumrolll... it's already native if it runs in a chroot
<ali1234> yes, exactly my point
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> last time around it was ubuntu for android... nearly a year after some hacker did it single handed in his spare time
<ali1234> suddenly everyone got excited and wanted to buy one... except... you can't
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> not any more than you could already
<ali1234> the problem with these demos is that the part canonical makes is trivial
<ali1234> rebuilding ubuntu for arm? they did that years ago
<ali1234> the hard part is the hardware adaptation
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> and that will only happen if the OEM does it
<ali1234> which they are not interested in doing
<Azelphur> I dunno why Ubuntu isn't tablet optimised already tbh, it'd be super easy to do
<Azelphur> all you need to do is hook when your in a text prompt and show the keyboard much like android does, something like that can't be super hard
<ali1234> because nobody sells a tablet with ubuntu on it... at least nobody with the piles of cash it would cost when you can't get people to do it for free
<AlanBell> already does that
<Azelphur> AlanBell: it does? cool
<AlanBell> yeah, onboard does it (and yeah, onboard might not be like most tablet keyboards)
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> actually i;m being to harsh
<ali1234> i would rather have a nexus 7 with aftermarket ubuntu than a kde spark, for example
<ali1234> the nexus actually has decent build quality, that's important in a mobile device
<AlanBell> and there are high volumes of it
<ali1234> yes, that too
<AlanBell> or there will be
<ali1234> unlike the phone thing, i forgot what it's called
<ali1234> atrix
<AlanBell> indeed
<ali1234> nobody bought it
<ali1234> nobody actually wants to have to unplug their laptop to make a phone call
<AlanBell> no fun having an open source community around something nobody has
<ali1234> it's completely incompatible with sidescreening too
<ali1234> yeah your mobile can be a TV or a laptop
<ali1234> but not all of them at once, and that's how people actually use them
<ali1234> imagine the scenario. you are watching a movie with your friends on netflix, streamed on your atrix which is plugged into the back of your telly
<ali1234> "hey it's that guy" "look him up on imdb" "hang on i just need to pause the movie, unplug the phone ... plug it in to the laptop shell ... now, what was i doing again?"
<ali1234> "hang on a sec, someone is ringing me"
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20026938
<ali1234> i think frank sidebottom has reincarnated
<brobostigon> whats the command to pull a git repo, when i have the *.git for it? i cant remember the command.
<ali1234> git pull
<brobostigon> ptaylor@debian:~$ git pull https://github.com/arduino/Arduino.git
<brobostigon> fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
<mgdm> brobostigon: clone
<mgdm> git clone https://github.com/arduino/Arduino.git
<brobostigon> mgdm: let me try,
<brobostigon> error: RPC failed; result=51, HTTP code = 0
<brobostigon> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
<mgdm> try it again
<mgdm> that sounds like a glitch
<brobostigon> ok, one moment.
<brobostigon> same result.
<mgdm> weird
<mgdm> you got any proxies or anything in the way?
<brobostigon> no.
 * AlanBell tests
<AlanBell> Cloning into 'Arduino'...
<brobostigon> my routers firewall, but i can push to my github repo fine.
<AlanBell> that isn't doing anything
<mgdm> it's working for me, just very very slowly
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<brobostigon> let me try my own repo.
<brobostigon> https://github.com/brobostigon/saab-hybrid.git  i am getting the same result with my own repo, which worked on friday.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: could be an ssh key issue
<AlanBell> brobostigon: it eventually started slowly working
<bigcalm> Worked for me too
<brobostigon> bigcalm: hmm, interesting, even with the arduino repo?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok. i will try again.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: taking its time
<ali1234> hahaha i;m an idiot
<ali1234> git clone. of course it is. *duh*
 * bigcalm frames that
<ali1234> sorry about that :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: it just failing straight out, it isnt stalling.
<ali1234> can't be ssh if you;re cloning on https
<bigcalm> brobostigon: do you have any keys for github.com in ~/.ssh/config ?
<bigcalm> Good point
<ali1234> url works for me btw
<bigcalm> I'm still waiting on arduino, but it hasn't said `no` yet
<brobostigon> bigcalm: for my repo, yes. yes i can push without entering password etc.
<ali1234> try cloning "git read-only"
<ali1234> git clone git://github.com/arduino/Arduino.git
<bigcalm> Ah, here we go
<brobostigon> AlanBell: that is what i am trying.
<brobostigon> ali1234: that is what i am trying.
<brobostigon> sorryy AlanBell
<ali1234> https:// or git:// or both are failing?
<bigcalm> git.com is really struggling for me in the web browser
<bigcalm> I just finished Rochard. Now what? :(
<brobostigon> ali1234: git: is going slowly, as bigcalm described, https: is failing still.
<brobostigon> infact git: has stalled.
<bigcalm> I think they are having problems
<ali1234> yeah, sounds like it
<brobostigon> yes, that seems the only answer.
<ali1234> also, inotool is amazing for arduino development
<brobostigon> ali1234: i was looks at that beta arduino ide, because it works with there new arm based arduino released today.
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> is it revamped at all? i found that IDE painful
<ali1234> always randomly disconnecting and crashing, and really slow
<brobostigon> ali1234: i dont know, thats why i wanted a look.
<brobostigon> ali1234: slow, i agree, it is java. but i havent experienced those other issues.
<ali1234> it would alwways get out of sync and stop communicating
<ali1234> and i'd have to replug the board
<ali1234> never happened with inotool
<brobostigon> interesting, never had anything like that.
<ali1234> well, i was pushing it, to be fair
<ali1234> overclocking the serial port to 9mbps
<brobostigon> ah.
<Myrtti> nice, now the notification thing doesn't even show if I've got new unread messages in Empathy
<AlanBell> Myrtti: I think I know how to fix gm-notify now
<Myrtti> I think I'll make a backup of my junk and reinstall soonish.
<Myrtti> this is getting too painful
<AlanBell> and I made http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/ have notifications too (probably a dreadful idea)
<Myrtti> AlanBell: that would be lovely
<ali1234> Myrtti: is that the xfce notification thing (which i think is actaully te gnome panel applet) or the unity one?
<Myrtti> ali1234: unity one
<Myrtti> I switched from Xubuntu to Ubuntu about a year ago
<AlanBell> ali1234: there have been several undocumented changes to the Unity APIs
<ali1234> AlanBell: you made it into a webapp?
<AlanBell> documentation is a pile of fail right now for the messaging menu#
<jacobw> AlanBell: has any part of Unity ever been documented?
<AlanBell> you have to read the source of the canonical produced webapps to find out what the new stuff is
<AlanBell> jacobw: sure
<ali1234> web apps has quite good documentation actually
<ali1234> unfortunately it's all wrong
<Myrtti> I can't believe it's like that *after* release of Q
<ali1234> it was right at some point though
<Myrtti> I would have assumed there would have been some before
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.04/javascript/index.html <- mostly doesn't quite work any more
<ali1234> yeah. that page is well written though, i'll give them that
<ali1234> just needs updating
<AlanBell> indeed
<Myrtti> or I'll just install 12.04. I liked 12.04. 12.04 was a lovely version.
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/messaging-menu/ <- works totally differently now
<ali1234> i'm staying on 12.04 because i have too much customization and i don't want to build compiz from source again
<ali1234> 5 years is a long time and hopefully all the hipsters will have gone away to ruin freebsd or something by then
<jacobw> lol
<Myrtti> I'm ready to throw the goddamn messaging menu to the sharks.
<Myrtti> and stomp on it.
<daubers> Myrtti: Sharks with frikkin lasers on their heads?
<Myrtti> I ask it to do one thing, show me when there's unread messages in Empathy, since I know it can't show me gmail inbox because the webapp extension crashes.
<Myrtti> and it fails to do that.
<Myrtti> daubers: yes.
<ali1234> pidgin gives me gmail notifications *and* IM notifications
<ali1234> why do i need webapps again?
<ali1234> (it also has a functional irc client)
<Myrtti> no, pidgin doesn't have functional IRC client. Especially the Windows one doesn't.
<Myrtti> it's an insult to all proper IRC clients to call Pidgin's attempt one.
<ali1234> demonstrably false
<Myrtti> depends on what you call demonstrably.
<ali1234> demonstrably in that it supports the full range of what you can do on freenode
<ali1234> it understands services and supports using a proxy
<ali1234> when you tell it to open new conversations in a tab not a new window, it actually does it
<ali1234> it doesn't put everything in enormous speech bubbles, making the scrollback several screens long after a few minutes
<ali1234> it doesn't use a fixed width font, because we're not talking in assembly language
<ali1234> it differentiates between inactive, active, and channels where you've been highlighted
<Myrtti> https://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/951
<ali1234> and even channels where someone parted or joined but nobody spoke have a visual ID
<ali1234> i've been using irc for 10 years and i don't even know what any of those commands even does
<Myrtti> :-(
<Myrtti> I've been using IRC for 15 years and I think pidgin is quite sad.
<ali1234> to my understanding, /who doesn't even work on freenode
<Myrtti> but to each of our own, if you're happy with pidgin, then who am I to tell you not to use it. I'm sure it fits many people, I just happen to see a lot of problems in using it. Especially one of the Windows versions leaks out information when quitting
<ali1234> you can't see who is in a channel unless you're in it
<ali1234> if you're in it the list is right there on the screen already
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> yes, /who does work on freenode, what it prints is relative to channel and user modes.
<Myrtti> it contains more information than just who is in a channel with you, which may or may not be relevant to people using pidgin.
<ali1234> well, it contains their mode too, which is also visible right there on the screen when you join the channel
<ali1234> only use case i can see for this (as a user) is if you want to see who is in a channel before you join, because you're avoiding someone. i never part anyway.
<motters__> what's the best IRC client?
<AlanBell> !best
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<ali1234> i never said pidgin was best :)
<Azelphur> motters__: if you don't know, xchat is a good starting point
<AlanBell> but irssi is good if you have a server to run it on
<ali1234> it is best though
<Azelphur> I use pidgin with a bouncer for my daily driver
<Azelphur> but if I need poweruser features I just fire up xchat and it auto connects to my bouncer that supports multiple presence
<Azelphur> so then I get the extra features, too
<Azelphur> having my cake and eating it \o/
<AlanBell> nom
<motters__> I knew that there isn't really a best, but was wondering what people would come up with
<ali1234> i can tell you what is the worst, and it's the one in empathy
<motters__> havn't tried irssi
<ali1234> what exactly is bestbot btw?
<Azelphur> lol empathy
<Azelphur> because nickname and username is the same thing
<AlanBell> To use BestBot, type things like "What is the best  IRC client?
<Myrtti> XChat is ok. I don't recommend any of the IM clients as IRC clients
<christle> irssi is best.
<brobostigon> motters__: irssi is a cli client, that probably why you havent considered it.
<Myrtti> irssi â¥
<Azelphur> NINJA CHRISTEL SWOOPS IN
<Azelphur> xD
<brobostigon> irssi, :)
<motters__> heh, you don't know how much I use the cli
<brobostigon> motters__: but most people. who ask what is the best, generally have certain experience, in my experience.
<motters__> I've really only used xchat
<brobostigon> never tried it myself, but it seems popular.
<motters__> in a lot of distros xchat is the default
<brobostigon> i agree.
<Myrtti> I actually made the Christmas card for irssi years and years ago
<brobostigon> cool
<Myrtti> I still have the file somewhere
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1298594/
<brobostigon> lol :)
<Myrtti> hoho
<bigcalm> Haha
<Myrtti> yeah anyway, some versions of Pidgin leak information on messages/queries/channels open on the moment the client is turned off
<Myrtti> it's a bit sad.
<ali1234> "leak"?
<ali1234> pidgin actually sends every message you send or receive over dbus to anyone that cares to listen
<ali1234> pretty sure empathy does it too
<Myrtti> the quit/part message is replaced by a list of pm tabs or channels open.
<Myrtti> I think we've narrowed it down to Windows versions
<ali1234> wow, that's weird
<motters__> how do I connect to freenode in irssi?
<ali1234> well if you ever see me do that let me know :)
<bigcalm> motters__: /server irc.freenode.net
<bigcalm> Or, irssi -c irc.freenode.net
<ali1234> it actually tells you when you start it up
<Myrtti> or if this is in Ubuntu machine, /connect ubuntu
<ali1234> irc.ubuntu.com = freenode
<Myrtti> yup
<bigcalm> Sneaky
<Myrtti> anyway, it's past midnight here so I should prolly head to bed.
<brobostigon> does that only apply to ubuntu desktop, as that isnt here in irssi on ubuntu server.
<Myrtti> should go vote tomorrow
<motters> now on irssi
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> motters: the trick is to run byobu, then run irssi in that
<motters> this would be ok for running on a server
<AlanBell> then you can reconnect to it
<AlanBell> just ssh in again and type byobu to be back where you were
<motters> what is byobu?
<brobostigon> byobu + screen + irssi + bitlbee, :)
<AlanBell> it is GNU screen or tmux
<ali1234> tmux
<motters> sounds complicated
<AlanBell> nope, not complicated
<brobostigon> motters: it is a terminal window manager.
<KrimZon> byobu makes screen easy to use
<ali1234> it's like a shell you can disconnect from and come back to later and the stuff keeps running
<AlanBell> it is just a session that says alive
<motters> ah
<Myrtti> tmux > screen
<AlanBell> it runs forever, unless you turn off the wrong ring main when fixing a fan in the bathroom
<ali1234> you can also have multiple sessions inside it and switch between them, and multiple people can connect and share the command line (or just watch)
<motters> I assume that you can run scripts in irssi
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> motters: yes, perl.
<Myrtti> motters: yup
<motters> what about python?
<ali1234> tmux has problems, like you can't start it up without a tty last time i tried
<AlanBell> F2 to create a new terminal, and F3/F4 to move left and right between them
<Myrtti> motters: http://scripts.irssi.org/
<Myrtti> also almost relevant http://irssi.org/themes
<Myrtti> and yes I should send them new screenshots of my themes.
<Myrtti> thank you for asking.
<motters> looks like I may have to learn perl
<motters> looks like irssi won't run in an emacs shell.  I guess you can't have it all
<ali1234> M-x erc-select
<brobostigon> trackbar and adv_windowlist are useful irssi scripts in my experience, makes things miles easier.
<shauno> emacs doesn't have an irc client built-in?
<ali1234> shauno: it does, see above ^
<zleap> emacs seems to have everything built in
<Laney> yes it does
<Laney> erc
<zleap> it even has a sokoban game
<zleap> towers of hanoi and some sort of psycological program
<shauno> ali1234: sorry, couldn't decipher that one
<jacobw> it even has a psychotherapist
<zleap> jacobw, yeah
<ali1234> eliza
<shauno> and tetris iirc
<motters-emacs> heh
<zleap> yeah
<motters-emacs> it works
<zleap> that sounds familar
<motters-emacs> emacs seems to do everything
<shauno> I used to use it as an AIM client sometime in the late 90s
<motters-emacs> I've only been using emacs in the last few years
<shauno> I had a variant called memacs in the early 90s, that even had an editor built in
<motters-emacs> in the late 1990s I used something called microEmacs
<AlanBell> http://www.amigawiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/MEmacs
<shauno> yup, that's the beastie
<shauno> I love that they describe it as 'spartan'.  that may be the only thing I've never called any emacs variant called
<ali1234> microemacs actually had nothing to do with emacs
<motters-emacs> it looked similar to emacs
<ali1234> kinda
<ali1234> all text editors look kinda the same though anyway
<motters-emacs> in terms of menus
<shauno> interesting.  the amiga wiki calls it a port, wikipedia calls it 'emacs-like'
<ali1234> yeah, it's not a port
<ali1234> emacs is written in lisp
<motters-emacs> I don't know much about the history of it.  It appeared on a coverdisk, and I tried it.
<ali1234> i doubt an amiga 500 would be fast enough for such a huge program in a high level language
<ali1234> remember amiga (microsoft) basic?
<motters-emacs> it wasn't slow at all
<ali1234> exactly.
<ali1234> amiga basic was though. famously slow.
<shauno> now them's fighting words.  don't make me install netbsd on mine
<motters-emacs> yes
<ali1234> you can install netbsd on hardware without mmu?
<brobostigon> i should have a look at emacs, i tried vi, and it seemed unsuable, then descovered nano on the debian wiki, and it works perfectly, and i can understand it.
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> one thing though
<ali1234> when you forget to sudo with nano, what then?
<brobostigon> ali1234: it has never happened.
<ali1234> i wish it could pop up a requester, like aptitude does
<brobostigon> ah.
<ali1234> i bet vi and emacs can do that
<shauno> I *think* mine will run netbsd because it has an aftermarket cpu board  (but won't in its stock config)
<motters-emacs> Havn't used other editors much, but with emacs there is an "app" for most things
<brobostigon> ali1234: like gksudo, for gui apps. ?
<ali1234> brobostigon: no, like when an app requests elevated permissions after you've already run it
<ali1234> like when update manager asks for your password
<brobostigon> ali1234: i got you, like that gnome popup thingie?
<ali1234> or when you unlock the users control panel
<ali1234> yeah
<brobostigon> ali1234: but in cli, that would be interesting.
<ormiret> I don't think emacs will do that automatically if you don't have write permissions but you can visit files via sudo from a running emacs
<ali1234> well, i noticed aptitude does it earlier today. it restarts itself though, which is kinda ugly
<ali1234> but it gets the job done
<brobostigon> ali1234: i was going to say, i have never seen it do that. without doing that.
<ali1234> just run aptitude as normal user and try to install something :)
<ali1234> oh you mean without restarting. yeah
<brobostigon> ali1234: i will try it in debian and in ubuntu, and see what happens, i am curious now.
<ali1234> but the point is i don't have to save to a temp file then restart manually, load the tempfile, then save as
<ali1234> i'm on 12.04. dunno if it makes a difference
<brobostigon> me neither, i have never forgot the right permissions that i can remember, weither su or sudo.
<brobostigon> so never seen that.
<motters-emacs> have been trying the lubuntu desktop
<motters-emacs> it's nice.  The CPU is hardly doing anything
<brobostigon> i am liking the 12.10 gnome remix, :)
<ali1234> does it still have classic mode?
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
<ali1234> and does it work properly if you force it to use compiz?
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome-shell fallback.
<brobostigon> ali1234: not tried that.
<motters-emacs> apparently gnome shell is going to have integration with owncloud
<brobostigon> motters-emacs: that would be cool.
<ali1234> you mean gnome?
<brobostigon> gnome3*
<AlanBell> it needs some unity integration as well
<ali1234> most of that work would go in nautilus and gvfs i expect, which all function under classic mode
<ali1234> and indeed unity as well
<ali1234> much as u1 integration does
<motters-emacs> right
<AlanBell> owncloud does a bit more than filestorage, it is kinda neat
<ali1234> so does u1
<brobostigon> music. contacts, pictures. :)
<ali1234> none of it really has anything to do with the window manager you are using
<motters-emacs> eventually I'll increase my server storage, and then I might try owncloud
<motters-emacs> especially if it gets integrated into the desktop
<brobostigon> there are external integration apps for linux, android etc. otherwise it is in browser.
<motters-emacs> yes
<ali1234> ooo it's on OBS
<ali1234> http://software.opensuse.org/download/package?project=isv:ownCloud:community&package=owncloud
<ali1234> just like a ppa, but not a ppa
<ali1234> i might have to try this out
<motters-emacs> it's a ppa, but not as we know it
<ali1234> it's better than a ppa because it doesn't force opinionated choices on you
<motters-emacs> nice
<dwatkins> munin works by magics
<dwatkins> I tried adding a sensor, but it doesn't change the output of the plugin, it's witchcraft, I tell you! ;)
<Darael> ali1234: I'm an hour and several screens of scrollback late, but tmux will start quite happily without a tty: "tmux new-session -d 'command'" will open a session with a window running 'command', detached, and won't care about whether there's a TTY.
<shauno> last time I updated my kernel, I had some issues with it not creating a sane grub config.  I really wish I'd written this down now.  250 days uptime later, I figure I really should try to update
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-23
<popey> morning
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<Knightwise> hey theopensourcerer
<diplo> Morning all
<Knightwise> hey diplo
<Knightwise> how are you today
<diplo> not bad thanks, yourself ?
<diplo> Sorry starting everything up on the other machine
<Knightwise> no worriez
<Knightwise> installed 12.10 yesterday
<Knightwise> thinking of rolling back to 12.04 for a couple of months
<christel> morning
<Knightwise> hey  christel
<popey> Knightwise, why's that?
<diplo> I think 12.10 is a lot better, defo preffered a clean install though
<Knightwise> popey: the 'web integration' doesnt appear to "kick in" when i visit gmail.com and stuff
<popey> what browser?
<Knightwise> + some of the apps like lightread and fogger arent there yet
<Knightwise> popey: tried both firefox and chrome
<popey> chrome wont work
<popey> firefox and chromium only
<Knightwise> ah ok
<Knightwise> have to try chromium then
<Knightwise> but i must say : on 2 24 inch displays .. its a dream
<popey> http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/lightread/lightread_1.0.14-0extras12.04.1_all.deb
<popey> try that?
<Knightwise> aha !
<popey> http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/f/fogger/fogger_0.2.3-extras12.04.1_all.deb
<Knightwise> copy and pasting that :)
<Knightwise> at work for the moment :)
 * Knightwise working on XP .. on a thin client
<Knightwise> * depressing *
<AlanBell> Knightwise: you need the unity integration extension installed and enabled in firefox and chromium
<AlanBell> for me there was some oddness in chromium, deleted my ~/.config/chromium and it turned up (probably was a better way of doing that but I wasn't bothered)
<AlanBell> and in Firefox the extension was disabled, probably due to upgrades or something
<AlanBell> or maybe I turned it off for being broken earlier
<Knightwise> AlanBell: ill take a look at that .
<Knightwise> because , as a slider , those integrations are of course key
<SuperMatt> yo
<Knightwise> hey SuperMatt
<Laney> xnox: xnox nxonxonxonx
<JamesTait> Good mornin' all! :-D
<christel> JamesTait \o
<JamesTait> christel, o/
<diplo> JamesTait: Can I swap your kids for mine this morning :)_
<JamesTait> diplo, I strongly suspect that by the time they get home from school, someone will already have swapped them back to the usual little monsters. ;)
<diplo> hah
<knightwise> ha indeed :)
<diplo> Mine are both quite ill on top of the naughtiness, so no sleep for me then they wake up with more get up and go than I do :(
<bb15> hi all!
<Neoti_Desktop> hello
 * Laney caves and puts the heating on yet again :(
<mfraz74> Any ideas whether there's going to be a 64 bit version of acroread for 12.10?
<bb15> from repository?
<mfraz74> there hasn't been a 64 bit version since 11.10 and there's nothing at all on partner at the moment
<mfraz74> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acroread/+bug/990761
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 990761 in acroread (Ubuntu) "acroread 9.5.1 is not installable on Ubuntu Precise amd64 system" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bashrc_> question: On a netbook when logging in an selecting the desktop environment the drop down list is longer than the bottom of the screen.  How do I select the environment using keys?
<bashrc_> I have xfce and lxde installed, so the list is longer than usual
<shauno> the health & safety wombles have just discovered I have 42U in my office.  This can't end well :(
<mattt> hahaha
<gord> tell them its a lamp
<mattt> or a cupboard
<mattt> for coats
<bb15> mfraz74, do you need specially the acrobat reader?
<JamesTait> diplo, kids are great like that. If we could bottle whatever it is they have, we'd be rich.
<diplo> heh the man speaks the truth
<mfraz74> bb15: seems to be work better than the alternatives
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bashrc_> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTIxMzA
<bb15> good morning!
<brobostigon> morning bb15
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<bashrc_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/970826
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 970826 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "Can not select desktop environment using keyboard arrows" [Low,Triaged]
<bashrc_> this combination of tab and enter is horrible
<bashrc_> randomly pressing tab and enter sometimes moves to the next item
<BigRedS> Hm. Wifi support in my laptop appears to have wandered off along with 12.10 being released
<BigRedS> I always have a much better time on the pre-release releases than on the proper ones...
<bashrc_> this about as non-intuitive as it gets
<bashrc_> I can select the top desktop environment with the cursor, then alternately hit tab and enter to move to the next item, but there seems to be no way to select an item
<BigRedS> This sounds horrific
<BigRedS> I'm tempted to install another couple of DEs and log out just to see how bad it is
<bashrc_> the bottom item is usually used to select, but it's below the bottom of the screen on my netbook
<bashrc_> to reproduce install xubuntu-desktop and lubuntu-desktop
<bashrc_> is there any way to remove DEs?
<bashrc_> selecting other users seems to reset the DE to the default ubuntu
<bashrc_> is there a config file somewhere for this?
<AlanBell> bashrc_: I can change desktop environments with the keyboard
<bashrc_> up and down keys?
<AlanBell> bashrc_: the trick is that the very bottom item is "OK"
<bashrc_> yes, but it's below the bottom of the screen
<AlanBell> up and down keys, space to select, bottom item select to choose it
<bashrc_> I can't get to the bottom item
<bashrc_> this is a netbook, with limited vertical screen realestate
<AlanBell> does it really not get there or can you just not see it?
<bashrc_> I can't move the cursor below the bottom of the screen
<AlanBell> press ctrl+s to get the screen reader running (which may or may not read anything)
<bashrc_> ok
<bashrc_> up and down cursors don't have any effect
<bashrc_> screen reader reads, but doesn't help
<bashrc_> I can get a record scratching effect by repeatedly pressing space with the screen reader :-)
<bashrc_> the main problem seems to be that although it's possible to select DEs using the obscure tab+enter combination it's not possible to confirm that
<davmor2> Morning all
<AlanBell> bashrc_: so it is tab space to get to the DE selection list
<AlanBell> then tab and shift-tab to move up and down
<bashrc_> ok
<AlanBell> space to select one, then tab all the way down to OK
<AlanBell> and space on the OK to confirm the selection
<bashrc_> tab all the way down?
<AlanBell> I would need to set up a VM or something to get the list to exceed the screen height though
<AlanBell> yeah, or shift+tab on the top one I think
<bashrc_> shift+tab has no effect
<bashrc_> tab on its own also has no effect when the list is displayed
<bashrc_> this is on 12.10
<AlanBell> using lightdm, the standard greeter?
<bashrc_> yes
<bashrc_> ah, it looks as if tab might be having some effect, but there is no visible change
<AlanBell> it just highlights the border slightly
<bashrc_> this really is very user unfriendly
<AlanBell> space to select
<AlanBell> shift tab twice from the top item to get to the bottom of the list
<bashrc_> omg I see it!  It's so subtle that it's hard to see unless you're really looking close up
<AlanBell> ok, so move that subtle effect to the top, then shift-tab twice, then space
<bashrc_> zomg it worked!
<bashrc_> what a palava
<bashrc_> I think the archetypal new user is going to be totally baffled by that, and assume that the OS is broken
<AlanBell> well the archetypal new user is supposed to just like Unity
<bashrc_> the bug was triaged, but it's one of those paper cut type things
<bashrc_> yes true
<AlanBell> but yeah, that is clunky, but it does work now, which it didn't in the past
<bashrc_> but I was experimenting with different desktops to get the best possible performance on a netbook
<AlanBell> there were major focus issues on that which broke it for screenreaders
<AlanBell> I would suggest filing a new bug against unity-greeter pointing out the issue with the number of desktops being too big for the screen
<bashrc_> ok will do
<AlanBell> (and say "on a tablet" rather than "on a netbook")
<bashrc_> why?
<AlanBell> just guessing that might catch some fashionable attention :)
<bashrc_> heh
<bashrc_> are there any ubuntu installations on 7" tablets?
<AlanBell> yes! (but with a 1280x768 screen)
<bashrc_> the netbook screen is about the same size as my 7" android tablet
<bashrc_> not sure what the resolution of the netbook is
<AlanBell> 1024x600 normally
<bashrc_> yes, that's it
<bashrc_> which is I think similar to my tablet
<bashrc_> liking the lubuntu netbook preferences.  My only gripe is that icons aren't also selectable with cursor keys
<bashrc_> it's organised into "work", "learn" and "play" categories
<bashrc_> plus "internet"
<bashrc_> lubuntu even seems to have its own software center
<BigRedS> With different sources? I'd guess it's just a smaller frontend to apt than the software-center is
<bashrc_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-greeter/+bug/1070292
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1070292 in Unity Greeter "Difficulty selecting DE on a netbook" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> are there any tilimg window managers that are controlled by the mouse?
<brobostigon> gnome-shell can tile windows.
<Darael> Almost certainly.  Don't know of them, though. </unhelpful>
<ali1234> i just watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnYN2CTb1hM
<ali1234> and it looks great except for having to do everything with keyboard shortcuts
<Titanium> Hi
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QnYN2CTb1hM#t=1843s
<ali1234> at this point he points out why alt-tab is bad
<ali1234> he's exactly right, this is why i never use it - i just click in the window i want with the mouse
<ali1234> at another point he mentions that people usually just remember what is on each workspace. totally right, and it's the reason why the task bar shouldn't ever take you to another workspace.
<Darael> Alt-tab is bad because one can use the mouse?  What?  It's /much/ faster not to need to take one's hands off the keyboard.  There /is/ an advantage to having a previous-window key-combo.
<Darael> Next-window and previous-window also have their places, and are missing from most WMs.
<ali1234> no, it's much faster if you don't have to look at the keyboard to find alt-tab, then look a the monitor to watch for the right window to come up
<Darael> Only if you can't find alt-tab by feel, which I certainly can.
<ali1234> alt-tab is bad because the order in which is presents the windows constantly changes
<ali1234> it has nothing to do with the mouse
<Darael> As the /only/ window-changing keyboard shortcut, yes it is.
<ali1234> it's also bad because it's a linear list, while using the mouse you can select from a list that shows multiple things
<ali1234> it's like a sushi bar vs a super market
<Darael> Mice are /slow/, though.  Things like Do, or Everything, that can raise windows by partial title-match, are much faster and don't have the disadvantages of alt+tab.
<ali1234> no, mice are not slow
<ali1234> the keyboard is slow, because you have to look at it to see where the keys are
<Darael> Speak for yourself.
<ali1234> you never have to look at the mouse while operating it
<Darael> I touchtype, including bucky-bits.  It's much faster.
<ali1234> you look at the mouse pointer, which is on the screen all the time
<Darael> The untrained speed on a mouse is higher, but the achievable speed on a keyboard is /far/ higher.
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> trained mouse speed is just as fast as trained keyboard speed, plus the mouse is a totally intuitive interface
<Darael> Try text entry with a mouse and tell me that again.
<ali1234> there is absolutely nothing at all intuitive about keyboard shortcuts
<bashrc_> keyboard shortcuts aren't very intuitive, but there is an intuitive path to learn them in unity
<Darael> Besides, mice are /not/ "totally intuitive".  Trust me, I had to lead a computer class while I was in India last year, and getting used to mice took /ages/.
<ali1234> for text entry a stylus beats both
<Darael> Really?  I find that hard to believe.
<ali1234> the only problem being that most people don't have their monitor set up like a drawing board
<Darael> Handwriting is slow, so I assume we're talking about some kind of picking-it-out-with-a-stylus thing.  I find it hard to believe it's possible to reach five characters per second with stylus taps.
<ali1234> handwriting isn't slow
<Darael> It's not nearly as fast as typing speeds can get.
<ali1234> maybe it is slow if you never do it
<ali1234> like using the mouse is slow if you never do it
<bashrc_> typing is generally the fastest way to enter text
<Darael> Like using the keyboard is slow if you never do it?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> guess which one most of the population of the world is most familiar wth?
<Darael> We can go in circles saying "you're slow because you don't try it", but highest speeds recorded on keyboards were up to 300WPM, or more than 25 characters per /second/.
<Darael> Show me the person that can go that fast handwriting.
<bashrc_> with a really good quality stylus system and good OCR it might be possible to equal the speed of a keyboard, but I've never seen that happen in practice
<Darael> Allow shorthand in stylus input (which seems sensible) and one could get speeds up a good long way, it's true.
<ali1234> the world record for shorthand writing is 350 WPM
<Darael> As I said.  Shorthand.  It increases speeds.  But then, a stenograph can go faster still.
<AlanBell> if you want fast, on a multitouch tablet you might want something like plover
<AlanBell> http://plover.stenoknight.com/ which is stenography
<ali1234> a stenograph isn't a PC keyboard
<Darael> No, but as AlanBell just helpfully illustrated, it can be simulated on a touchscreen, and since we're comparing handwriting-type input, which I assume would need some kind of touch surface...
<AlanBell> indeed, and it requires learning (as does shorthand)
<ali1234> as does writing!
<Darael> We've got sidelined by text input.  My point was, given that one has learned the layout of the keys, it is generally going to be faster to hit a keyboard shortcut than it is to lift hands /off/ the keyboard, take them /over/ to the mouse, and click on something on screen.
<ali1234> and using a mouse
<AlanBell> I suspect it would be possible to create a more intuitive chording keyboard
<ali1234> this whole "lifting hands off the keyboard" is rubbish. it's slow when i have to lift my hand off the mouse
<Darael> Really depends on your usage pattern, doesn't it?
<ali1234> no.
<ali1234> unless your usage pattern is entirely keyboard or entirely mouse
<Darael> On the contrary, the deciding factor is whether it's /mostly/ keyboard or /mostly/ mouse.
<Darael> If it's more mouse by any significant margin, keyboard shortcuts are long cuts, not worth moving the hands for.
<ali1234> the only real deciding factor is "you are a stenographer"
<Darael> If one's default hand-position is on the keyboard, then using the mouse represents a slowdown in most cases.
<ali1234> for anyone else keyboard interfaces are unintuitive and annoying
<Darael> Intuitive is not necessarily good!  It's /discoverable/, but it's not necessarily /efficient/.
<bashrc_> You want intuitiveness first, with efficiency later through mastery
<ali1234> also, the delay in moving to the mouse is insignificant compared to, say, the 3 seconds you have to wait when you want to enter an application group in the unity alt-tab system
<Darael> ali1234: I've never found that.  On the other hand, I prefer using other WMs.  It's a fallacy to take a (possibly reasonable) complaint about one implementation and apply it to the whole concept.
<ali1234> that implementation is done that way (grouping) because having a looooong list you cycle through is also incredibly innefficient
<ali1234> unfortunately it's no better
<Darael> Have you tried alt-tab-to-application-group, let go, alt-` to window?  Likely to be faster.
<Darael> Suboptimal, but faster than waiting for the group to expand.
<AlanBell> press down
<ali1234> you can also press enter while holding down alt
<ali1234> or down
<ali1234> but that needs two hands, so it means taking my hand off the mouse
<Darael> I would test skipping to alt+` without releasing alt from the alt+tab, but I'm not in unity right now.
<Darael> Because that would be the fastest of those if it worked.  Just shift one finger up one key.
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it's still slower than using the mouse though
<AlanBell> it expands in time than it takes me to move finger from tab to `
<bashrc_> personal computing is personal, and different people prefer different styles of interaction.  A good OS should be able to support a range of ways of doing the same tyhing
<Darael> Well, yes.
<ali1234> and another thing
<ali1234> switching windows requires a mental context switch anyway :)
<ali1234> if your writing away and you need to switch windows it's going to slow you down either way
<ali1234> i also have a routine where i need to check through a list of windows one at a time, to see what's happening
<ali1234> the alt-tab way of showing most recently used windows first is the exact opposite of what i need as each window i need to look at gets further and further down the list as i go
<Darael> ...which is a good argument for next-window and previous-window commands as /well/ as a last-window-I-saw command.
<ali1234> so it takes longer to find each time
<ali1234> sure
<Darael> Doesn't invalidate the usefulness of windows-by-recency, though.
<ali1234> i have no idea what they keyboard shortcuts for those are though
<Darael> Don't think they exist by default (or if they do they're unbound) but pretty sure there's a compiz plugin for it.
<ali1234> next and previous isn't that helpful really, as they might not be in any particular order
<Darael> There's also a window-grouping plugin, that I'm /sure/ provides next/previous-window-in-group
<ali1234> how do you group them though?
<ali1234> more keyboard shortcuts?
<Darael> Think so.
<ali1234> all this stuff sounds great except for the keyboard shortcuts part
<Darael> Well, it's that, make heavy use of mouse-gestures (not intuitive or discoverable), make use of live edges (not intuitive, /too/ discoverable), or add loads of buttons to window borders.
<ali1234> yes, add the buttons
<ali1234> there's plenty of room for them
<Darael> Well, I wouldn't have a problem with that.  Especially if there were a way to turn them off (because we /would/ get new users complaining about all the buttons on windows they didn't understand).
<ali1234> a 1:1 window list you can directly click on to go to any window is still the most intuitive and also the fastest general purpose system we have
<Darael> Most discoverable, yes.  Most intuitive... probably.  Fastest?  I still doubt it.
<ali1234> it's the fastest when you consider all use cases, not just a very limited subset that few people actually use
<Darael> For example, e17's Everything can be keyboard-launched and can raise a window with a partial title-match.  Given good typing speed, that's very fast indeed.
<Darael> Do and Synapse can probably do it, too.
<ali1234> yeah except what if i don't know what the window is called?
<ali1234> what if the window title is <currently playing song>
<Darael> It'll match on the program, too, for example.  Title is the most-commonly-used thing it matches, not the only one.
<ali1234> all of these clever tricks have a worst case which is extremely poor
<ali1234> the traditional window list might be medium speed, but it doesn't totally fail under worst case
<Darael> As does the graphical list!  Open loads of windows and it requires scrolling (pontentially for ages) and/or masses of trial and error (depending on implementation)
<ali1234> so if you open loads of windows and match by title, and 50 windows match? then what?
<ali1234> it's not worse for the graphical list
<Darael> It's not significantly /better/, either.  What it /is/, as I have been at pains to acknowledge, is more discoverable.
<ali1234> i never said it was better
<ali1234> what i said was that the graphical list always has adequate performance, and performs above average in situations which challenge any system
<Darael> I don't have anything against it per se.  I have something against it when presented as "it's always adequate and it doesn't die in edge cases so it's the only thing anyone should use".  Less-discoverable things that perform better in most actual use-cases I come across are very good things to have, and I want to keep or improve them, but I don't want them to be all there is.
<ali1234> i'm not saying everyone should use it
<ali1234> i'm saying that it should be the default
<Darael> No.  /You/ clearly aren't.
<Darael> It should.
<Darael> The problem I have arises when it becomes the only thing reasonably supported.
<Darael> Which is a thing that I perceive to be happening in several places.  Unity is the exception rather than the rule in that it's increasing capacity for keyboarding over the thing it's meant to replace, and while it's slow and that's bad, I like that.  Still don't use it day-to-day, but that's for other reasons.
<dwatkins> I miss fvwm.
<ali1234> that keyboard support comes at the cost of the window list though
<Darael> It doesn't /have/ to.  That it /does/ is clearly a Bad Thing.
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> i could probably live without the window list in something like i3m
<ali1234> but only if i could still do everything else with the mouse
<davmor2> ali1234: it does a windows list it's called the spread :P
<ali1234> you best be trolling
<davmor2> ali1234: it lists the windows whats wrong with you ;)
<ali1234> it's not a list, and it doesn't list all windows
<ali1234> and in some configurations it's not limited to the current workspace
<dwatkins> If I could spend 99% of the day not touching the mouse, I'd be happy, but I appreciate not everyone is like me.
<ali1234> i've lost track of what the default setting for that is these days
<davmor2> ali1234: in all serious now, what kinda of windows list are you on about?
<ali1234> well, you know what windows are right?
<ali1234> a list of all the windows on the current workspace, and when you click on a window, it is unminimized and placed above all the others
<davmor2> ali1234: no I mean I've never seen a windows list is there an example of one somewhere
<popey> wat
<ali1234> well you could pretend it's a radically new idea that will revolutionize computing as we know it
<ali1234> it may be easier for me to sell it to you that way
<Darael> davmor2: Bottom panel in the default Ubuntu gnome2 config, back when we had one.
<Darael> davmor2: Horizontally laid-out, but still a window-list.
<ali1234> doesn't have to be horizontal
<Darael> I said in the default config.  I know it doesn't /have/ to be.
<Darael> It was an example, not intended to define but to illustrate.
<ali1234> the point is it lists windows on the current workspace, not applications on any workspace + maybe some applications that are not running
<davmor2> but that isn't actually that practical and depending on the default layout has the exact same issue with regard to switching desktops,  and I was used to those being called switchers rather than lists, but at least I know what you are on about now :)
<ali1234> the difference between a window and an applications is important, because a window is a clearly defined thing, while an application is not
<ali1234> as such an application switcher is designed to fail
<Darael> There was a window list applet that did the same thing in a popout list, if that helps, davmor2.
<davmor2> Darael: ah okay that's making a bit more sense then
<ali1234> switcher is a generic term, it must be qualified as a window switcher or application switcher (aka dock)
<Myrtti> hiya.
<Myrtti> hows things?
<Darael> Myrtti: Debate-y, apparently.
<davmor2> Myrtti: a bit meh, not on top form today
<Myrtti> right. I just went to see my dad and as usual he smoked indoors, even when I was there. Almost threw up when leaving and now my hair smells of cigarette smoke. So I'm a bit annoyed already and as usual, my computer doesn't seem to be helping in that
<Myrtti> latest in the messaging menu indicator saga: Empathy tells me there's an unread message from my sister with whom I don't have an open tab in Empathy
<Myrtti> I click the indicator, and the message is gone
<davmor2> Myrtti: you love it you know you do ;)  In emapthy open a message window to your sister or click on the clear button
<davmor2> Myrtti: for me though I click on the name it says there is a message from and it opens the window to that person
<Myrtti> yeah, it opened the window
<Myrtti> it just doesn't have the message in it.
<davmor2> Myrtti: that could be a glitch in emapthy then reporting it has a message but hasn't
<Myrtti> and I'm pretty much ready to give up and reinstall 12.04.1
<Myrtti> sure it has a message, I just read it in my phone,.
<davmor2> Myrtti: did you do a fresh install of 12.10 or an upgrade?
<Myrtti> upgrade
<Myrtti> silly me thinking upgrade would work.
<ali1234> how do i do a fresh install without losing all my bought software that hasn't been updated yet?
<Myrtti> and oh god my hair stinks
<davmor2> Myrtti: try a fresh install of Quantal before you resort to 12.04.1 unless you need the machine for work
<davmor2> ali1234: most of it has been updated apart from the stuff that doesn't work in Quantal
<Myrtti> davmor2: well I do prefer gm-notify over to the non-functioning webapps, I don't particularly need the machine for work as I'm still unemployed, but it would be lovely to have the thing working.
<Myrtti> and gm-notify in quantal doesn't work either.
<davmor2> Myrtti: the reason I say try Quantal first is it might solve your gm-notify and webapps issues on a fresh install and then you might be happier and have 12.04.1 as your backup plan
<Myrtti> well gm-notify isn't fixed yet
<davmor2> Myrtti: ah so that isn't just the Quantal upgrade then
<Myrtti> no, it's you folks messing up the messaging menu API
<Myrtti> bug 1040259
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1040259 in skype-wrapper "FFE: libmessaging-menu transitions for quantal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040259
<davmor2> Myrtti: I hope you aren't trying to blame me for that I don't touch it, blame gord it normally works for me :D
<Myrtti> I'm not blaming anyone, I'm past that phase
<AlanBell> davmor2: it doesn't work, the API was changed and the documentation is all wrong and things were broken
<ali1234> is there a reason why skype does not have a tray icon any more?
<ali1234> mine hasn't had one since 11.10
<popey> it does here
<Myrtti> I'm at the phase called "I've stopped actively caring and I'm about || close to moving to Debian testing anyway"
<davmor2> ali1234: it does for me in 12.04 let me check 12.10
<ali1234> i'm using 12.04
<ali1234> but i'm using gnome-classic
<ali1234> i can't test in unity as i can't install it
<ali1234> hang on
<ali1234> maybe it's cos i don't have a system tray on the panel
<Myrtti> my hair makes my mood really foul. sorry.
<ali1234> hmm well i added a notification area and i got some new icons, but not skype
<davmor2> Myrtti: go home wash your hair
<davmor2> ali1234: did you make sure that skype is in the whitelist?
<ali1234> yes
<Laney> yeah it's pretty unfortunate that we released Quantal with that half done
 * popey spies an aquarius in Copenhagen
 * SuperMatt ponders
<SuperMatt> I do hope Valve don't announce the steam beta at uds, or all the uds people will have a head start signing up
<popey> heheh
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<popey> fun times
<SuperMatt> personally, I don't think 1000 users is enough for a beta test, but I guess valve know what they're doing :(
<aquarius> popey, o hai
<Azelphur> when is UDS? XD
<SuperMatt> don't talk to him! he's planning on stealing steam beta signups!
<SuperMatt> starting soon, isn't it?
<Laney> next week
<Azelphur> My upgrade to quantal on my laptop went really well xD
<Azelphur> First boot, unity didn't start, dropped to classic, nm-applet segfaults when I try to connect to wifi :D
<SuperMatt> oops
<gord> 1000 users is enough for a beta test that has a good signal to noise ratio
<Azelphur> indeed, xD
<SuperMatt> gord: fair point
<SuperMatt> I'm just worried I'm not going to be able to get on it
<gord> do you need to be? just wait for proper release :P
<SuperMatt> hmm, I've just realised valve have a week left in october, which is when they said they'd release it
<gord> valve are well known for sticking to release dates as we all know
<SuperMatt> though vavle time means that october is anything from 01-10-12 to 31-12-185834
<Laney> i hate the word minutiae
<gord> its a perfectly cromulant word
<Methot> hi too all :)
<SuperMatt> I challenge this channel to a more colourful desktop! http://ubuntuone.com/7SMbmoGwCiVTcszWvtx0en
<SuperMatt> that's how I use it every day :)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you are a sad sad man
<SuperMatt> why?
<SuperMatt> it helps me differentiate between servers, so if I'm doing something on test and live, for instance, I don't accidentally do something destructive on live
<davmor2> SuperMatt: indeed
<Myrtti> oh man, I wish the princesses of the household would come home and have their shower so I can I go and wash my hair with the remaining hot water
<SuperMatt> Myrtti: housemates or family?
<Myrtti> SuperMatt: been staying at my sisters at my mums old house for a month and after living for a year here they've quite established that the boiler doesn't cope with four people taking a shower every day, when people went to sauna and shower twice a week when the storage heater was installed in the 70's
<Myrtti> I'm the fourth and the least fussy about stinking for a few hours extra, so I'll just wait for them to come home and I can wash my hair at 11 when the storage heater has had an hour to warm up new batch of hot water.
<andyc> Oh cool!  I have always used chromium but just started using firefox again and have discovered that 12.10 installed loads of crazy unity apps for some websites
<andyc> Very useful
<Myrtti> they should work in chromium too. if you've got needed bits installed. and if they work.
<andyc> I mustn't have had the right stuff installed because I was never asked to install them
<SuperMatt> I've been agonising over which browser to use on a permanent basis
<popey> i switched to chromium
<SuperMatt> thing is, I think firefox is best on the desktop, and chrome is best on android
<SuperMatt> so I can't easily sync between them
<popey> chrome eats the battery of my laptop
<gord> omnomnom
<SuperMatt> I've found that since installing quantal, my laptop has had *much* better battery life
<andyc> For some reason the tabs occasionally flicker on chromium on my machine
<andyc> Which is quite annoying
<andyc> Ouch EE only offers 500Mb for Â£36?
<andyc> Good job I dont have an upgrade for another year, prices might be reasonable by then
<AlanBell> don't get why people are angry about EE being expensive
<ali1234> more annoyed that my phone doesn't work any more cos it is blacklisted by orange and i'm on t-mobile and they merged
<ali1234> (and became EE)
<Azelphur> why does orange hate you?
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3677593
<ali1234> it seems that they blacklist the imei if you buy a pay-g phone and don't ever top it up
<ali1234> of course this is not a PAY-G phone
<ali1234> it was clearly not bought from orange because it has "NOT FOR SALE" printed on the back
<ali1234> however it did have an orange rom on it when i got it
<Azelphur> annoying, my mum has exactly the same but didn't get blacklisted
<Azelphur> although, she doesn't use orange/t-mob
<ali1234> it's not that phone model
<ali1234> and it was only blacklisted on orange
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> probably means she's blacklisted from EE too then, nice.
<ali1234> when t-mobile and orange had the roaming agreement after the merge the phone would crash if it roamed onto orange network but worked fine on t-mobile
<ali1234> now that they've merged the network it doesn't work at all
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> I'd phone them up and complain continually
<ali1234> i have done
<ali1234> i can't prove it's my phone
<ali1234> it's a demo model
<ali1234> technically it belongs to orange or samsung
<ali1234> i don't even know who
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> I can prove at least, got amazon receipt
<diplo> Anyone recommend a decent windows ftp server for win7 ?
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Wrong channel I know :D
<diplo> Oooh didn't know filezilla did ftp server
<Azelphur> diplo: haha, was just about to recommend filezilla, I used that on Windows before
<SuperMatt> filezilla is about the only one I will bother using, myself
<SuperMatt> though I try to stay away from ftp as much as I can
<diplo> never use it myself
<diplo> Someone in the offices I am wants to dump cisco cdr records to one
<diplo> and the ftpd he is using sucks
<SuperMatt> filezilla it is
<SuperMatt> or just install ubuntu
<diplo> hmm can't connect atm
<andyc> AlanBell, I'm not angry about EE being expensive, I'm just glad I don't have an upgrade for a year else otherwise may have been tempted to spend a lot
<davmor2> andyc: why do you think it will be cheaper in a year?  It took about 5 for the price of 3g to lower ;)
<andyc> davmor2, True - plus EE will be on their own with 4G for a while so it's not likely to drop any time soon
<andyc> sigh
<kvarley> I'm looking for a sub-500 quid laptop/notebook/netbook/ultrabook that will run Ubuntu with the Unity interface and preferably it will be quiet. Any suggestions?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: sub-Â£500 ultrabook? Good luck with that ;)
<zleap> oh ultra book
<zleap> dunno sorry
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Hehe true, I'd stretch for an ultrabook.
 * MartijnVdS ordered one of the new Chromebooks
<MartijnVdS> but I'm not sure if I want to run Ubuntu on it or not
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I would do I don't want to buy something when I'm going to immediately void the warranty by installing Ubuntu on it
<directhex> ultrabooks are something quite specific. and i don't see them happening at <Â£800
<directhex> e.g. SSDs cost money
<directhex> Lenovo IdeaPad U310 is technically an entry level ultrabook for Â£600
<locodir-user> hi
<locodir-user> i have a small query please
<locodir-user> I am working on ubuntu 12.04
<locodir-user> but i think ubuntu 12.1 is realeased and i tried to upgrade using software upgrader. but i am not successful yet
<locodir-user> any help please
<locodir-user> hello
<locodir-user> anyone out there?pls
<locodir-user> hello
<airurando> hi locodir-user
<airurando> you may not get a reply straight away
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> sorry
<airurando> Unfortunately I'm not good on upgrades
<locodir-user> ok not an issue. I am just curious to know
<airurando> I failed with a 12.04 to 12.10 upgrade myself
<locodir-user> oh, did you
<locodir-user> Why does it difficult? i do know nothing about ubuntu programming
<airurando> yeah I had a graphics card issue
<locodir-user> ok
<airurando> It is not supposed to be difficult
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> i mean i clicked update centre and installed everything
<locodir-user> but no difference
<airurando> for the less tech savvy people like myself I'd recommend sticking with the long term support releases like 12.04
<motters> I would also recommend sticking with 12.04
<motters> 12.10 is still quite unstable.  I've seen many crashes
<airurando> locodir-user: upgrade differs from update
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> oh
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> i didnt know that
<locodir-user> will it make my computer slow?
<airurando> depends on you computer.  If you upgrade to 12.10 you may indeed encounter difficulties
<motters> I don't think 12.10 is much slower than 12.04.  A lot depends upon the graphics drivers.
<airurando> then again you may not
<locodir-user> ok
<airurando> always back up your data before attempting an upgrade
<locodir-user> that means i have to format my hard drive? do i?
<airurando> no
<locodir-user> ok
<locodir-user> where can i download it from
<airurando> you should look at: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/upgrade
<locodir-user> thanks a lot
<locodir-user> let me try that
<locodir-user> bye
<airurando> be careful.
<airurando> bye
<locodir-user> it doesnt show ubuntu 12.1 is available
<dogmatic69> maybe because there is no such thing as 12.1
<motters> I think you have to change the setting in software sources
<locodir-user> perfect answer
<locodir-user> how?
<motters> open the software centre and on the menu there is software sources
<motters> under updates select notify of any new version
<AlanBell> yes, by default it will be set to only offer lts releases
<locodir-user> cool
<locodir-user> got it
<locodir-user> lets see
<locodir-user> i will be back
<locodir-user> downloading
<ali1234> why do we have gcc-4.7 packaged but not g++-4.7?
<ali1234> and how is that even possible?
<airurando> coderdojo spawned in Ireland I beliece
<airurando> wrong channel
<airurando> sorry
<AlanBell> :)
<Myrtti> ali1234: out of interest, are you using in your pidgin IRC More plugin?
<ali1234> i don't think so
<Myrtti> good
<Myrtti> I found the bug and it's not actually specific to Windows as I thought it would
<AlanBell> bigcalm: done anything interesting with your camera yet?
<Myrtti> https://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/14635
<bigcalm> AlanBell: it's sat on my windowsill looking pretty. Haven't plugged it in yet. I want time to do things
<bigcalm> AlanBell: how's your camera standing up to the weather?
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/pad fine, but I might have to sort out the cobwebs
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Milk bottle watch
<AlanBell> so, I have a copy of internet explorer that has been persuaded to run the activex control for the camera that can do audio as well as video
<AlanBell> using wireshark or tcpdump or something else, how do I find out what it is really doing?
<AlanBell> I want to find the "give me audio" address and the "play this audio" address, they will be weblike calls to stuff running on port 9090
<AlanBell> but I get masses and masses of data that is all just boring video stuff, not sure how to filter what I want
<mgdm> Use netstat to see what ports are open between the computer and the camera?
<mgdm> it's entirely possible that the video and the audio are part of the same stream, though
<AlanBell> I think it is all on one port, the video is just mjpeg over http
<AlanBell> I managed to get audio working and video turned off
<AlanBell> just can't get any sense out of the packet data
<daubers> AlanBell: tar it and put it on the web somewhere for someone o pick apart?
<AlanBell> yeah, might do, I am just trying some more basic stuff to get the hang of wireshark
<daubers> AlanBell: You can follow the TCP stream. I normally find that more useful when I'm inside wireshark
<AlanBell> yeah, that makes sense for the web pages it gets
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/packets
<AlanBell> nothing in there that I can decypher
<AlanBell> that is a stream to the correct IP address for the camera, nothing happened for a bit, I turned on audio then stopped the capture
<directhex> AlanBell: oh 'ello. you're trying to get usable streams from an ip cctv system?
<AlanBell> it starts with binary
<zleap> AlanBell, when are the ubuntu cd's released ?
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, the audio bit of it
<AlanBell> video is a perfectly good stream that renders fine in an <img> tag
<directhex> AlanBell: okay. does the cctv box itself support exporting sections of video to usb or cd for archival?
<AlanBell> zleap: week or two
<directhex> i had luck reverse-engineering the data format of a cctv system from the saved streams
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> directhex: there is an activex control that can do two way audio
<AlanBell> that can save stuff, it can do some saving on board the unit too
<AlanBell> and ftp stuff to you
<directhex> AlanBell: at the very least you can isolate the codec it's using from a saved stream
<AlanBell> ah ok
 * AlanBell gets an AVI with the audio
<AlanBell> ooh it does do asf with the audio playback
<AlanBell> vlc:http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk:9090/videostream.asf?user=guest&pwd=guest
<AlanBell> so, how do I get the codec info out of this avi file?
<mgdm> ffmpeg? mplayer? mediainfo.sf.net?
<directhex> ffmpeg -i?
<AlanBell> Stream #0.0: Audio: pcm_s16le, 8000 Hz, 1 channels, s16, 128 kb/s
<directhex> 8khz wav? sounds pretty likely
<AlanBell> yeah
<n1md4> Any empathy users here?
<n1md4> ...the question is, I used empathy at work and it logs in, but recently on my laptop it does not.  I am ablo to login using pidgin on the laptop though.
<n1md4> Somethings not right, I'd like it to be more than empathy being rubbish ... but I'm not holding my breath!
<n1md4> Any comments ....
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-24
<ali1234> AlanBell: http://irishjesus.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/hacking-the-foscam-fi8908w/
<ali1234> "n the Foscam, all data packets start with âMO_Oâ for the âoperation  protocolâ used to configure the camera, and MO_V for video/audio  packets."
<ali1234> also firmware unpacker
<ali1234> says it runs linux
<ali1234> if it were me i'd take it apart and find the debug port
<ali1234> firmware contains string "linux.bin"
<ali1234> i guess the two firmwares are kernel and rootfs
<ali1234> ok, i see MO_I, MO_V, MO_M and MO_O packet types
<ali1234> firmware extractor doesn't work, but the file look simple
<ali1234> ok, reversed the file entry format. it crashes on the first directory entry. but that explains what that unknown byte means...
<ali1234> directories are pretty simple, just a zero length file with 4 bytes of unknown data. hmm
<ali1234> ok this is really just the server html files etc
<ali1234> lol, a Thumbs.db
<ali1234> silly windows developers
<ali1234> ZyDAS ascii art, lolz
<ali1234> Linux 2.4.20-uc0, ARM7TDMI
<ali1234> it's uClinux
<ali1234> aaaaah
<ali1234> this has all already been done :)
<ali1234> http://sourceforge.net/projects/foscam-util/
<ali1234> heh, super simple
<ali1234> linux.zip (lol) and romfs.img
<Azelphur> ali1234: google finance is advertising butterfly labs ASICs https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30965168/img/image.jpg xD
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> so did they ship yet?
<Azelphur> nope
<ali1234> lolll
<Azelphur> ali1234: indeed, the wonderful world of bitcoin is fun
<Azelphur> I'm getting really good at arbitration though, I've sold Â£1000 worth of bitcoins in the past week
<ali1234> right, this firmware is super simple
<ali1234> it has a shell script init and just runs a monolithic camera executable that is about 95% of the firmware
<ali1234> it could almost certainly be directly replaced
<bb15> good morning to all!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> morning lovelies
<BigRedS> Goooood Morning!
<theopensourcerer> Morning all. Anyone on a service with no static IP have good experience of using DDNS?
<popey> theopensourcerer, ya
<popey> wassup?
<theopensourcerer> Nothing's up - we have a customer that has Asterix and currently has static IP. Wants faster broadband but can't get one with a static IP.
<theopensourcerer> s/Asterisk
<diplo> theopensourcerer: I use it all the time as well, but tried anything as complex as that :)
<daubers> theopensourcerer: They trying to do FTTC?
<theopensourcerer> Think they are talking to Virgin.
<theopensourcerer> Cable.
<daubers> ah, VM don't do static IP's full stop.
<popey> i have dynamic IP from virgin
<popey> its not that dynamic
<theopensourcerer> Do they provide a DDNS service popey
<popey> I use afraid.org for my dynamic dns
<theopensourcerer> OK.
<daubers> If they can do FTTC speak to A&A or plus.net Both will do static IP's (A&A is free, plus.net is Â£5 one off)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<theopensourcerer> Thanks Daubers
<popey> wifey rebooted my cable modem yesterday and the IP didnt change
<popey> it rarely changes
<daubers> A&A gave the hackspace 32 static IP's.....
<JamesTait> daubers, +1 for A&A.
<theopensourcerer> Thanks all  - that's very helpful.
<daubers> theopensourcerer: (as an aside, A&A do ipv6 by default)
<theopensourcerer> ty
<diplo> We've started using EFM lines at are customers where FTTC isn't available, works well so far.
<bb15> hi all!
<BigRedS> theopensourcerer: install bind, email him a perl script :)
<AlanBell> we are hiring: http://www.libertus.co.uk/about-us/jobs/7-free-software-engineer shout if you know anyone suitable
<popey> AlanBell, theopensourcerer if you tweeted that I'd RT it :)
<theopensourcerer> Tweeted :-)
<diplo> I'd love to work with the Alan's
<diplo> Bit far away, and canna afford it... funny you do that as I am actually writing my CV at this moment in time :)
<SuperMatt> I eventually plan to move to guildford, maybe in a few years
<SuperMatt> I'll hook up with the alans then
<einonm> looks like free software engineers aren't free after all, looking at the salary :) How ironic
<davmor2> Morning all
<Safiyyah> Morning all
<Safiyyah> my system has packed up again and I am not sure what has  done it, I did plug in an old mp3 player to charge now my system won't boot. On the live disk I can see that I only have 6 GB of space I don't know if that is the problem
<Safiyyah> popey, AlanBell, daubers
<popey> unplug the mp3 player ?
<popey> i have  a system which won't boot if there are certain usb devices plugged in
<SuperMatt> I have that too
<Safiyyah> popey I unplugged it, booted up and I get no gdm, just a black screen
<Safiyyah> I am on a live disk as we speak
<ggorman> mcg
 * d0od tickles popey
<davmor2> I WANT ONE http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2012/10/24/all-aboard-the-pc-train-case/
<Neoti_Desktop> hey people.... does anyone know about DHCPD i need to know how to write the option for 114 AKA URL or default-url etc... but when i type it in the config file as option default-url "blah"; i get a message saying its unknown....
<Neoti_Desktop> how to i write this option... reason i need it is i am doing auto prov for gigaset phones and they require option 114
<diplo> I don't know about dhcpd but googling it there isn't an option default-url
<diplo> Look at dhcp-options and it lists all of the ones available
<Neoti_Desktop> do you have a link for this ?
<diplo> dhcp option linux, top one is a about.com with everything listed
<diplo> in google
<shauno> assuming it's isc's dhcpd, that should be correct: option default-url "value";
<shauno> (man 5 dhcp-options)
<diplo> hah, google / me fails then
<davmor2> Yay Finally my SIII is upgrading
<shauno> just make sure you're quoting it, else it'll expect it to be in hexidecimal :/
<Neoti_Desktop> davmor2 ARGH!!!!!! i have been trying to get mine to get the update from three for ages ....
 * Neoti_Desktop *NOT HAPPY!!!*
<davmor2> I'm on tmobile
<davmor2> Neoti_Desktop: if you have game os on a pc I recommend using kies as it has direct access rather than waiting for the ota version
<Neoti_Desktop> im lazy though and can not be arsed to connect via Kies... lolz.... though i guess i will now.... :)
<SuperMatt> seems like the update pipes are clogged :(
<SuperMatt> for the S3
<davmor2> SuperMatt: indeed that's why I tried kies on game os
<shauno> Neoti_Desktop: that option seems to work here; http://cl.ly/image/2P293J0K1e44  (sorry it's an img, I can't paste from VM)
<Neoti_Desktop> my solution define the option as (option default-url code 114 = text;) then call the option (option default-url "http://192.168.200.30/tftp/";) :)
<Neoti_Desktop> the image is from the router OS Vyatta... and built on debian using the DHCPD package so it should have let me do it... doh... oh well ... but my solution above should work... now time for testing ... hehe
<Neoti_Desktop> then again i might be wrong about the distro.... sorry...
<shauno> odd, the vyatta image I have here (vc 6.4) reports a very similar dhcpd version.  so funky that it's acting different.  regardless, you've found what you need :)
<diplo> Anyone know a way of identifying what program rar'd or zip'd a file ?
<Laney> archers theme tune â reach for power button
<SuperMatt> too troo#
<einonm> diplo: I don't think you can do that. Why would you need to know?
<diplo> einonm: Doing a security challenge, have to break open a zip/rar file. read that you can do things like buffer overflow on them if you what compressed it
<einonm> diplo:  Hmm, ok :) usually it's the zip/rar library that can be used by several different executables on Linux, the only thing I can think of that will tell you a little more about it is the 'file' command
<diplo> yeah nowt :) I think I've looked at most things, tried fcrackzip to brute it
<dwatkins> throw a dictionary at it
<einonm> diplo: Usually that sort of thing is knowing what the flaws are, and trying all of them to see which works...or so I've heard...
<diplo> heh, yeah so I've 'heard' / 'read' as well
<diplo> But it seems you need to know what it was compressed with to be able to exploit that, from what I'm reading
<diplo> Probably reading it wrong
<dwatkins> isn't that obvious from the magic?
<dwatkins> or is this truecrypt?
<diplo> The magic ?
<dwatkins> the beginning of the file, what the command 'file' uses
<diplo> nah just plain zip/rar archives
<dwatkins> ah ok
<davmor2> diplo: john the ripper
<dwatkins> you might be able to decrease the time to crack it if you know how many alphanumerics the password has, and so on
<diplo> RAR archive data, v2a,
<einonm> there's the prog 'zipinfo' for a bit more about zips
<diplo> yeah no idea on the password
<diplo> ooh
<diplo> Can only use John the ripper to pipe to another program davmor2 as far as i can tell
<davmor2> diplo: http://www.junauza.com/2010/11/how-to-crack-password-protected-zip.html http://www.mydigitallife.info/how-to-recover-rar-7z-and-zip-password-with-rarcrack-in-linux/
<davmor2> diplo: there are loads of solutions I did a google for "Linux retrieve forgotten password for (rar/zip)"
<diplo> yeah tried loads already
<diplo> the second link calls unrar and passes it a password to try
<diplo> Doesn't work if each of the files are encrypred seperatly as well
<diplo> and the first link is fcrackzip, didn't do anything :/
<diplo> I think I'll skip this one :D
 * SuperMatt has installed ubuntu accomplishments and notes a lot of them are missing for him :(
<davmor2> diplo: first things first are you sure it is a zip or rar
<buddn07_> huawei-g300
<SuperMatt> ssh and tar are so much better at moving large numbers of small files than rsync
<diplo> davmor2: Yeah defo is
<davmor2> diplo: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-password-cracking-john-the-ripper/ apparently you can run john on file :)
<dwatkins> Windows hates my Nexus 7, it says "Nexus 7" is ready to use but no driver was found for "Nexus"...
 * dwatkins makes a note never to connect it to that laptop again
<einonm> dwatkins: I think the N7 connects itself as a camera device first, not a storage device
<einonm> dwatkins: I remember having to fiddle with mine to use it on Linux as well
<dwatkins> ah ok, einonm - I just needed to charge it, but it's interesting to see it's not clearly labelled as 'camera driver for Nexus 7 failed to install' etc.
<einonm> dwatkins: try going to settings on the N7, storage->menu(top right)->USB computer connection
<einonm> you can then choose what device to connect as :)
 * popey hugs his n7
<popey> nice to see you can get 32GB ones now
<popey> http://www.littlewoods.com/asus-google-nexus-1gb-32gb-7-inch-tablet/1173217684.prd
<TREllis> littlewoods? :-)
<popey> yeah
<popey> and argos iirc
<davmor2> popey: is that the Ubuntu powered N7 or the android one?
<popey> there is no ubuntu powered n7
<einonm> that 32Gb looks suspiciously like a typo!
<popey> nah, its well publicised online
<einonm> in which case: cool!
<popey> http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/tablets/3405559/argos-confirms-google-nexus-7-32gb-model/
<YaManicKill> it's still not officially been announced/released. But it does make sense
<YaManicKill> Also, note the price is also higher than the 16GB
<einonm> fair enough.
<diplo> davmor2: http://www.openwall.com/lists/john-users/2006/07/04/1
<YaManicKill> oh interesting, the Argos thing says it'll be 199, but it's 249 in littlewoods
<YaManicKill> interesting
<diplo> the cyberciti one is saying you can crack files, not zips
<einonm> I fell in love with my N7 when I realised I can use the terminal IDE app to run a terminal, have the full kernel code with tags on it, and use vim to browse....
<Linux_Alien> Hi, I am trying to install ubuntu on a vaio desktop pc (not laptop) but the graphics are unusable (looks like all the wrong colours and stuff can't be seen). Anyone seen this? The settings say "Laptop   -   ON" but it won't let me switch it off. This has happened on 11.04 and 12.04, both have the issue
<Linux_Alien> Is there a option in grub to use low graphics? like vesa?
<diplo> Not done in a while, but isn't there a safe mode to load in
<diplo> ?
<diplo> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/ubuntu-linux/143781-safe-graphics-mode.html
<diplo> Not sure how up to date it is, haven't had to do it for a while myself
<davmor2> Linux_Alien: What graphics card is in it?
<Linux_Alien> davmor2, Nvidia GeForce FX Go5700
<PrincessLuna> Hi
<popey> hello
<bb15> hi all!
<SuperEngineer> boo!
 * Darael jumps.
<SuperEngineer> Darael: ;)
<diplo> Anyone about ?
<SuperEngineer> Hi diplo.  I'm about... about to eat ;)
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Anyone had any issues with sound on 12.10, eventually getting round to fixing it on my home PC
<diplo> Only have the option of "Play sound through" "Dummy output"
<diplo> Not found a good solution yet
<AlanBell> presume it doesn't make a sound diplo?
<AlanBell> hardware install or a VM?
<AlanBell> fresh or upgrade?
<ali1234> AlanBell: did you see stuff i posted about your ip camera?
<AlanBell> ali1234: ooh, no
<AlanBell> where?
<ali1234> i found there is a whole forum for hacking them http://www.openipcam.com/
<AlanBell> cool
 * AlanBell sees the scrollback
<ali1234> tools to unpack and rebuild your firmware: sourceforge.net/projects/foscam-util
<ali1234> tested them and they work
<ali1234> so you have a clone of the foscam
<diplo> Sorry AlanBell was packing
<diplo> yeah no sound at all, fresh install
<ali1234> diplo: unmute with alsamixer
<diplo> Worked on 10.10, clean install of 12.10
<ali1234> i have to do that after every reinstall
<AlanBell> ali1234: briliant
<diplo> cannot open mixer: No such file or directory
<ali1234> you can't unmute with the volume control widget
<diplo> Tried that already
<ali1234> diplo: oh, well, you have serious problems then, sorry
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Detected, as the kernel module is loaded
<ali1234> hmm
<diplo> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1316634
<diplo> Just found that thread for karmic with same sound card
<diplo> Worth a try ?
<AlanBell> removing pulse audio isn't what I would do
<AlanBell> file a bug
<diplo> no entry in alsa-base.conf for snd-hda-intel
<AlanBell> http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways-to-fix-your-audio/
<diplo> lookin
<diplo> +g
<ali1234> haha, removing pulseaudio should be number 1
<diplo> So what to file it against ?
<diplo> And what info is best to provide ?
<ali1234> dmesg for starters
<ali1234> output of lsmod
<ali1234> and lspci
<ali1234> but apport should do all that
<diplo> ubuntu-bug audio
<diplo> So says the DebuggingSoundProblems on wiki
<ali1234> yeah
<diplo> bug #1071001
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1071001 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "Sound Card not detected NM10/ICH7 Intel HDA Internal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071001
<diplo> yay, first bug report :D
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<Pendulum> hiya bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hey Pendulum, how are they treating you?
<Pendulum> right now, we're not quite to the treatment level. today was just all evaluations and I'm exhausted. I'm also not allowed to do more than the laptop, food, books, and tv (all from bed) pretty much without assistance
<Pendulum> I can't even sit on the side of the bed without the alarm going off to tell them I've been naughty
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> You've tried then :)
<Pendulum> no, but it went off because they forgot to turn it off when PT came earlier
<Pendulum> OTOH, I'm probably getting the best care I've ever gotten and I can't really stand up on my own anyway
<bigcalm> Silly peeps
<bigcalm> I do hope they make you much better
<Pendulum> I was in better shape by the time I left the hospital after my surgeries than I am now.
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> What's happened?
<Pendulum> overall health was worse going in, less movement allowed when I was in the hospital, and longer hospital stay are the only things I can think of
<MartijnVdS> Cool thing about the Voyagers on BBC Four
 * brobostigon is watching palin. :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Michael or Sarah? ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the former. :)
<MartijnVdS> Ah, the python (not the snake)
<brobostigon> lol :)
<chilicuil> hello o/, I'm sorry to bother, someone knows what happened with http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/, that was the only pad I could found for ubuntu related things and I added some data, however from some weeks ago it vanished, so I'm wondering if the ubuntu-ku team have plans to recover it, if not, who I have to contact in order to recover my information?
<daubers> chilicuil: You need to speak to Daviey I suspect
<daubers> he might be busy with uds things
<chilicuil> daubers: I understand, then I'll wait till the uds finish, anyway, do you what is its nickname | mail?, It's just that I really wanna reach him, I put the information of the ubuntu-mx team there X_X
<ali1234> alanbell might know what happened to it
<ali1234> chilicuil: you could mail the ubuntu-uk mailing list, that should get you an answer
<ali1234> actually searching the archives might find something. i'm not subscribed myself
<chilicuil> ali1234: I'll do that, thanks for your time
<AlanBell> hi chilicuil
<ali1234> i don't see anything on the ML about shutting down pad, or system problems
<ali1234> maybe it broke and nobody noticed
<AlanBell> there was no intention to shut it down
<ali1234> does anyone who can fix it know it's broken? ;)
<mgdm> isn't it Daviey's?
<chilicuil> hi AlanBell, that's ok, I know it was probably my fault
<AlanBell> it isn't on the same server as www.ubuntu-uk.org
<ali1234> i thought it was
<AlanBell> it is a Daviey box
<ali1234> fair enough
<AlanBell> #blamedaviey
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that sounds terrible :S
<bigcalm> Though I blame my terrible mind and lugradio
<dogmatic69> PHP SPL is pretty damn cool.
<bigcalm> SPL?
<bigcalm> I see, interesting
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-25
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diplo> morning all
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning czajkowski and all o/
<christel> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> oh dear, more websites getting the wrong end of the stick about mark's recent blog posts
<popey> oh?
<SuperMatt> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138200-key-parts-of-ubuntu-13-04-will-be-developed-in-secret-to-escape-the-critics-ire
<SuperMatt> it's simple, key parts of ubuntu are being developed outside the public eye, they're just holding on to things until they're finished, but they will allow members of the community to see it and go over it before it's finished so there's more cohesive community feed back. A better signal to noise ratio
<popey> meh, that's a re-print from other sites
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<theopensourcerer> yawn
<SuperMatt> yup
 * theopensourcerer goes for some moar coffee
<diplo> Seems my sound issue could be down to EDAC module, can't test till monday now though :(
<theopensourcerer> I haz Jelly Bean on my S3...
<theopensourcerer> What's the difference? ;-)
<daubers> theopensourcerer: Which jelly bean version?
<theopensourcerer> 4.1.1
<daubers> When you get 4.1.2 you can rotate the home screen
<theopensourcerer> oh great. That's something that really gets on my tits.
<theopensourcerer> That wasn't meant to sounds sarcastic if it did.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<ali1234> "Weâve â¦ figured out that critics will be critics whether you discuss an idea with them in advance or not."
<ali1234> well... duh
<ali1234> if i don't like it i don't like it
<bittin^work> bah need to burn another Xubuntu CD, Boss took the one laying around here for saving files from his borked Windows XP partition :p
<theopensourcerer> Hah - interesting stats if you are into 007. Can't wait to see Skyfall.
<theopensourcerer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20026367
<diplo> Off to see my gran in Plymouth tonight, might leave the kids with her on Fri/Sat night and go and watch that in town
<theopensourcerer> I have instructed Mrs theopensourcerer to find a suitable babysitter and FAST!
<diplo> heh
<SuperMatt> list of things I hate in modern websites: background and foreground scrolling at different speeds
<theopensourcerer> lol - I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it SuperMatt
<theopensourcerer> That's quite cool.
<SuperMatt> cool, yes, but useful? readable? no
<ali1234> if the background is making the text unreadable then the scrolling isn't the main problem
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<SuperMatt> good morning
<bittin^work> morning
<brobostigon> morning bittin^work , BigRedS amd SuperMatt
<popey> hmm, my nexus 7 has 4.1.2 but the home screen doesn't rotate
<brobostigon> popey: have you disabled the rotate lock, in the notification menu?
<AlanBell> popey: home screen rotates on ours
<AlanBell> popey: so, when will the Ubuntu flashing instructions be published?
<AlanBell> and can you easily back up the stock system?
<SuperMatt> oooh, finally my s3 is updating
<AlanBell> Mark Shuttleworth should be over in #ubuntu-classroom in 5 minutes or so answering questions
<AlanBell> questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<popey> notification menu?
<popey> oh that
<SuperMatt> oh poops, I missed mark's bit
<SuperMatt> where are the logs?
<popey> it hasnt started
<AlanBell> "in 5 minutes or so"
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> awesome
<SuperMatt> hooray
<SuperMatt> for UTC
<SuperMatt> thanks guys for letting me know :)
<knightwise> hey peeps
<knightwise> grr
<knightwise> installed 12.04
<knightwise> upped the proprietary ATI driver
<knightwise> and no I cant get dual screen anymore :(
<diplo> I had loads of issues with dual screen on 12.04, 'just worked' on 12.10
<knightwise> hmm.. :( 12.10 was still pretty buggy for me unfortunately
<knightwise> just downgraded to 12.04 again
<knightwise> in 12.04  it worked out of the box too
<knightwise> then i installed the proprietary driver ..
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> any idea how i can dump the proprietary driver ?
<knightwise> required virtual size does not fit available size: requested=(3840, 1200), minimum=(320, 200), maximum=(1920, 1920)
<diplo> I've changed xorg in the past, but I'm pretty much sure there is a way, I'll goggle a sec
<knightwise> or where i can tweak this
<diplo> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1869540
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<BigRedS> Bah. 12.10's been released and now I'm having problems with it. When does 13.04 become available for testing?
<diplo> heh
<BigRedS> _every_ time, I spend the beta and RCs going "this is wonderful, everything's working" and then within days of release things start breaking...
<dwatkins> Clearly you should have kept stumm, BigRedS :-/
<BigRedS> I need a ubuntu equivalent of Debian Testing
<BigRedS> or just Debian testing...
<dwatkins> I'm curious to try Debian, havn't used it for years. I got the impression it was more geared to being a server OS than a desktop one last time I used it.
<BigRedS> Debian stable makes a rubbish desktop
<BigRedS> because everything's so old. I used Testing on my laptop until not that long a go when I stuck 12.10 on it
<BigRedS> Testing used to be basically an ugly Ubuntu that broke more frequently, but now that Gnome3 is pretty by default it's just Ubuntu without a lot of the nifty little tools or Unity
<theopensourcerer> Gosh Debian Testing sounds great!
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I used to run Ubuntu with Gnome-shell on one PC and Debian on another and the big difference was the fonts
<dwatkins> because stuff is old? ;)
<BigRedS> I do really like the ubuntu monospace font
 * dwatkins runs xeyes and compiles fvwm2
<dwatkins> If I feel lonely later on I might start xteddy so I have someone to talk to ;)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: like SPL?
<Knightwise> hmm.. is it just me or does the launcher feel faster in 12.04
<popey> if it's slower, tell is via the gift of a bug report
<popey> and do you mean dash?
<davmor2> Knightwise: it's faster for me in 12.10 although the minimise animations are slower but that is fairly trivial to speed up :)
<Knightwise> popey: i mean the dash indeed
<popey> what video card Knightwise ?
<Knightwise> popey: an ATI , i 'll log in at home to check
<Knightwise> uut and abuut right now
 * Knightwise is on his macbook air , tethered to his iphone, logged into his ubuntu VM at home ,
 * BigRedS assumed Knightwise is canadian
<BigRedS> (based on being "ooot and aboot"
<BigRedS> )
<dwatkins> Tethering is only possible in Canada?
<BigRedS> Nah, the way I read all those double us accent
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> s/accent$//
<dwatkins> double user?
<mgdm> BigRedS: Scottish would work too
<dwatkins> aye
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> Anyone know if it's possible to get a self-hosted caldav calendar to appear in Google calendar?
<theopensourcerer> BigRedS: Sure. export your calendar as ICS and then import it into Google ;-)
<BigRedS> Hm. That could work
<BigRedS> I've been doing so much daft screen-scraping stuff recently that, really, I'd be quite up for knocking that together...
<theopensourcerer> There is a half/decent google API for Calendar integration and some client libs
<BigRedS> Oooh. I could even do it properly
<theopensourcerer> But from my experience CalDAV seems to be a client/server kind of arrangement rather than a peer-peer.
<daubers> CalDAV (like iCal) SUCKS
<theopensourcerer> I use Lightning as a CalDAV consumer to Google
<theopensourcerer> Works fine.
<theopensourcerer> CalDAV is basically ICS over WebDAV
<BigRedS> daubers: yeah, this is largely because a customer wants caldav and I want something to learn it on where it doesn't matter too much if I break it
<theopensourcerer> Davical
<BigRedS> yeah, that's the one we're using
<theopensourcerer> It's pretty much the only game in town. Used to be Cosmo (Chandler Project) but hasn't been touched in ages.
<theopensourcerer> OpenERP supports CalDAV and a calendar server too.
<theopensourcerer> http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/CosmoHome
<BigRedS> Always plugging the OpenERP :)
<theopensourcerer> Just sayin
<BigRedS> haha, yeah :)
<BigRedS> It's all postgresy, too, so I might also end up finally using a real database
<BigRedS> I've been meaning to do that for ages, but MySQL's pretty comfortable
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1071298
<popey> \o/
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1071298 in Unity "ALT+Tab switches to incorrect window" [Undecided,In progress]
<BigRedS> that's a new bug? :)
<popey> well indeed
<popey> i couldn't find an existing one
<popey> but I poked someone to fix it
<BigRedS> Yeah, I read it and it's not something I'd have seen. I just meant that for aaaaages normal behaviour was to get an apparently random screen
<popey> :)
<diplo> Anyone recommend a good program to copy down youtube vids ?
<BigRedS> Which reminds me, are there guidelines to say when my envelope is supposed to be blue for webapps? Mine seems to *always* be blue
<AlanBell> popey: surely that is intended behavior?
<popey> intended that ALT+TAB gives you the window you were already on?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> wow
<popey> what?
<popey> sorry, i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what
<AlanBell> no, I thought it was supposed to be application switching
<AlanBell> so slow alt-tab would take you to some random window of the next application in the z-index
<popey> this is specifically an issue for multiple windows of the same app
<AlanBell> because everyone has a natural grasp of the z-index of applications
<AlanBell> oh I see, if you let go after the alt-tab bar comes up, but before the detail switcher arrives
<popey> yes
<theopensourcerer> ALT+TAB never seems to do what I want :-(
<theopensourcerer> Especially with a multiple monitor setup as I have just demonstrated to my erstwhile colleague
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=M660rjNCH0A :D
<bootlkjkgf>  ÃµÃ²   ÐÐÐÄ½Ä½Ð§
<dwatkins> Gesundheit
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: not looked at it any further than googling PHP SPL. Should I dig a little deeper?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: Its pretty much life changing.
<dogmatic69> Iterators are awesome.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: do you have an example?
<dogmatic69> ever done something like CSV imports?
<bigcalm> Yes
<dogmatic69> you used cakePHP before?
<bigcalm> Still managing 2 1.1 apps
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: not sure how 1.1 models were but should be similar.
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/267198432
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: vert neat
<bigcalm> Green?
<bigcalm> Very neat
<dogmatic69> heeh
<dogmatic69> I updated a bit there.
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: as you can see, minimal code. The main thin is that memory usage does not climb.
<bigcalm> That is nice
<dogmatic69> I am importing a csv with 40k rows and memory usage remains the same from before the import through done
<bigcalm> Lots of freading going on I guess
<dogmatic69> well it does not read the entire file. It reads line by line
<dogmatic69> pretty much like doing less in terminal.
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: have you been sucked into PHP 5.4 yet?
<dogmatic69> You can see more usage in the tests https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/tree/dev/Core/Data/Test/Case/Lib/Csv
<dogmatic69> I have it on my one dev box, but my app does not run on 5.4
<dogmatic69> E_STRICT :(
<bigcalm> I was rather surprised that my laptop is now using PHP 5.4 since upgrading to Ubuntu 12.10
<dogmatic69> errors, errors every where.
<bigcalm> Yeah, that's my concern with some existing projects
<dogmatic69> 5.4 is default with 10.10?
<bigcalm> 12.10, yes
<dogmatic69> 12.10*
<dogmatic69> damn. I almost upgraded...
<dogmatic69> Will have to wait till I fix the errors
<bigcalm> I'm keeping my dev server on LTS
<bigcalm> You could always pin PHP to 5.3
<dogmatic69> I use php5-dev on my boxes.
<dogmatic69> added some ppa for 5.4 and mysql 5.5 on the other one.
<mrevell> Anyone here from Manchester LUG?
<bigcalm> mrevell: you might have better luck asking in #phpnw
<mrevell> cheers bigcalm
<bigcalm> Though TBH, I don't know how many Linux users there are in the PHP dev community
<bigcalm> I wish it were 100%
<mgdm> mrevell: ping?
<mrevell> mgdm, Yo. I've totally failed to send you any slightly broken Acers. Sorry about that.
<mrevell> mgdm, Yo. I've totally failed to send you any slightly broken Acers. Sorry about that.
<mgdm> mrevell: hehe, no worries, I was ust wondering if I'd forgotten to do something :)
<mgdm> mrevell: I'm in no hurry so take your time
<mrevell> XChat is a bit broken, so I can't see anything
<mgdm> that any better?
<Azelphur> Hmm, does a phone being off stop it being able to receive text messages?
<Azelphur> me phone is throwing errors when trying to text a specific person
<Azelphur> my*
<mgdm> No
<mgdm> it's a store-and-forward system
<Azelphur> oddness \o/
<mgdm> if the number doesn't exist, it might throw a wobbly
<mgdm> I've heard that, at least
<Azelphur> nah it definitely exists because I've texted it before loads of times
<MartijnVdS> maybe they cancelled the contract?
<MartijnVdS> or maybe you've been tagged as a stalker?
<Azelphur> haha, perhaps :P
<MartijnVdS> maybe the server is down?
<Azelphur> It's an iPhone user, so I'll blame that :D
 * Azelphur points and laughs at iPhone
<MartijnVdS> they ran out of money for their plan then ;)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I just did the stalker thing and texted her son anyway
<Azelphur> xD
<webpigeon> Azelphur: take the battery out, wait a while and put it back in
<webpigeon> then clobber the user round the head for breaking their text messages and owning an iphone
<webpigeon> or just try again, your call :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<Flashtek> right, where can I get a CCTV setup with audio that's safe to use outdoors that will not break the bank
<Flashtek> ?
<AlanBell> Flashtek: Â£35 ok for you?
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/
<bootlkjkgf> Flashtek, Npt sure I'm leading down the wrong path, but I think Chris Pirillo had one in his latest vidz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWsE9mJovTc&feature=g-all-u
<Flashtek> AlanBell: Â£35 is ok :)
<AlanBell> that one is outside but under cover slightly
<Myrtti> well, I feel accomplished today. Survived a shopping trip to Ikea and a big computer retailer without too much purchased, and I've applied for two jobs. Don't know should I try my luck and try a mince pie.
<Flashtek> i need to cover the porch area out the front
<Myrtti> btw waiting for the first snow to fall :-P
<Flashtek> the PTZ is not a requirement, but if it's already there, so be it
<AlanBell> no Z
<Flashtek> AlanBell: can that cam be PoE powered ?
<AlanBell> it wants 5v
<Flashtek> supplied with PSU ?
<Flashtek> but 5v poe ?
<AlanBell> you could strip a pair out of an ethernet cable and with some solder and gaffer tape sort it out :)
<Flashtek> has night vision facility onboard ?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> in darkness the LEDs turn on and you get black and white images
<Flashtek> that's fine
<AlanBell> the sensor doesn't change mode
<AlanBell> in fact if you look at the picture now you can see the bricks are black and white and the window in the door is yellow
<AlanBell> it is dark out there
<Flashtek> kk
<Flashtek> oh yeah
<SuperEngineer> solder, gaffer tape, LEDs, night vision..... SuperEngineer is sweating... this is SuperEngineer pornography
<SuperEngineer> if the next item includes dip switches & firmware resets.... I'm a gonna!
<Flashtek> SuperEngineer: how about we start talking RS485 ?
<SuperEngineer> oooo... oooo - stop it!
 * Flashtek gets his RJ45/RJ11 crimper out and points it at SuperEngineer 
<Darael> Flashtek: I should be careful, were I thee.  No knowing what might happen if thou pushest SuperEngineer much further.
<Flashtek> hmm.... i need to think about the logistics of getting a power source out to the front door...
 * SuperEngineer thanks Darael for saving SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> has anyone tried [with no ill effects] adding Cinamon to desktop options? [ http://www.linuxbsdos.com/category/ubuntu/ ]
<Flashtek> AlanBell: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Ethernet-Including-Injector-Splitter/dp/B0038X3RVA/ref=pd_sim_computers_1
<SuperEngineer> actually - this link is more relevant: http://tinyurl.com/cinamondesktop
<AlanBell> Flashtek: anyhow, it has wifi
<AlanBell> all you need to do is run power to it
<AlanBell> or do Power over Wifi :)
<Flashtek> yeah, i need a PoW injector then right ?
<AlanBell> exactly :)
<shauno> this is fantastic fun.  an ssl problem at google affecting users in ireland.  and absolutely no way to contact google about it, because they want you to go via google groups, and accounts.google.com requires ssl
<Flashtek> and where can i get one ?
<Flashtek> lol
<SuperEngineer> bbs - gonna have a look at this cinamon thing... doing the "don't knock it if you don't know it principle"
<bootlkjkgf> Flashtek, http://hackaday.com/2012/10/25/a-beautiful-pinhole-camera-takes-wonderful-photos/
<SuperEngineer> hmmm; just tried cinamon on 12.04... & forced to admit that I *can* see it's merits [& congrats to the devs & designers]
<SuperEngineer> ,,,  I'm back here on Unity though ;)
<exaem> I really like Unity on 12.10
<exaem> 12.10 is just awesome
<d3ngar> Hi, I seem to have a problem removing courier-imap
<d3ngar> I get this error message:
<d3ngar> * ERR: /usr/sbin/couriertcpd missing
<zleap> HI
<zleap> is the following technically correct ?
<zleap> I have also set up 3 laptops with ubuntu and lubuntu which is based on the GNU/Linux kernel.
<directhex> zleap: no.
<zleap> ok
<zleap> what should it be then
<directhex> zleap: the kernel is Linux. the OS is GNU/Linux. so either based on the Linux kernel or based on the GNU/Linux OS
<directhex> hint: the former is better since the latter makes you sound like a pretentious douche
<zleap> i have no idea what pretentios douch is
<zleap> or means
<zleap> so can you help me reword that properly
<zleap> Set up laptops to run the GNU/Linux operating system
<directhex> that'll do
<zleap> thanks
<directhex> d3ngar: sounds like you're missing part of the package - so when the uninstall tries to stop the daemon, the daemon is missing, causing script failure
<directhex> d3ngar: try erasing /var/lib/dpkg/info/courier-imap.prerm
<directhex> or something along those lines
<directhex> the prerm script is the one called before files are erased, typically to stop daemons
<d3ngar> directhex: Will try
<d3ngar> Thanks
<bigcalm> Tum te tum
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-26
<popey> Ugh!
<knightwise> morning everyone
 * popey pokes AlanBell with bug 1061229
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1061229 in Ayatana Design "Alt-Tab - alt+grave (key above tab) takes you back to where you started, not to the next window" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061229
<popey> AlanBell, if it's fixed could you tag it verification-done
<knightwise> hey popey i did a reinstall of 12.04 , left OUT the proprietary drivers and am now rocking a dual 24 inch setup :)
 * knightwise is pleased
<popey> nice
<knightwise> I do have a question : is there any chance the "webbapp integration" might get backported from 12.10 to 12.04 ?
<popey> maybe in the future
<knightwise> ok ;
<knightwise> i'll probably go to 12.10 when the .1 release is out
 * knightwise is getting a dull ubuntu user that needs reliability
<popey> there wont be a 12.10.1
<popey> we don't do point releases for non-LTS versions
<popey> we will be putting out some SRUs though
<popey> first one landed today
<knightwise> ah k
<popey> hence me asking AlanBell to verify the stuff is fixed :)
<knightwise> i just might wait a month or so
<popey> yeah, there will be another SRU in a month or so
<popey> or just stick on 12.04
<knightwise> whats an SRU again ?
<knightwise> Small release upgrade ?
<mattt> sneaky release upgrade
<knightwise> LOL
 * AlanBell does an update
<popey> stable release upgrade
<popey> *update
<knightwise> ah :)
<AlanBell> popey: not fixed
<popey> oh?
<popey> you have -proposed enabled?
<SuperMatt> morning
<AlanBell> popey: nope, enabling it now
<Laney> xnox: how do you cron offlineimap?
<Laney> I have it in a */5 but every so and then it hangs and stops checking whatever account was in progress at the time until I kill it
<Laney> "so and then" â "so often" (typing what you hear on the radio ...)
<AlanBell> popey: fixed \o/
<AlanBell> popey: but your carefully timed alt-tab one doesn't appear to be
<popey> yeah, that ones on its way
<popey> nex sru i think
<popey> AlanBell, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1061229 can you tag it verification-done pls?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1061229 in Ayatana Design "Alt-Tab - alt+grave (key above tab) takes you back to where you started, not to the next window" [Critical,Fix committed]
<popey> and if you feel like verifying any of the others listed next to unity in quantal, I'll be super happy :) http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<popey> \o/ 2nd breakfast O'clock
<SuperMatt> I've decided that the first friday after payday should be called fat-friday
<knightwise> popey: you from the shire ?
<popey> :)
 * knightwise looking forward to elevensies
<popey> they put out bread rolls, cheese and ham, and fruit
<knightwise> and have toeclippers the size of garden shears
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :)
 * JamesTait reads scrollback with interest.
<JamesTait> Looks like a different bug to the one I metoo'd though.
<bigcalm> Zort
<daubers> So what're we going to do tonight bigcalm
<bigcalm> Same thing we do every night, daubers. Try to take over the world!
<bigcalm> Though that was a bit of a role reversal if I enter saying Zort or Narf
<daubers> p
<daubers> :p
<bigcalm> I had a dream where I bought a Nokia handset because it was the best one using Android
<bigcalm> I have a rather confused subconscious
<einonm> bigcalm: well known fact that dreams play out your fears and aspirations. Which one of those was your dream? :P
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Well, Nokia made good hardware and I like using Android. Maybe it was hope
<BigRedS> Anyone know off the top of their head how much a rhel license for a singe (dual-cored) server would cost? I need to impress upon someone the advantages of not doing that :)
<bigcalm> $LOTS
<BigRedS> Oh. RH are quite open about it. $350/y
<bigcalm> Which looks like slots
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I first read there, wondered why they'd care how many slots there were in it...
<BigRedS> :)
<bigcalm> I wonder if I can sneak in 'lut' as a variable name - I am a bad man
<BigRedS> https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html it's not *that* bad
<BigRedS> hahaha.
<bigcalm> I have unit and functional tests to write today. Somebody fancy doing it for me while I go back to sleep?
<Laney> ok
<Laney> grand?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<knightwise> GAh !
<popey> ooh! http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/10/valve-to-launch-steam-linux-beta-at-uds
<SuperMatt> yup!
<SuperMatt> so excited about this
<Laney> nice
<popey> :)
<Laney> haven't played TF2 in quite a while
<Laney> pew pew pew
<AlanBell> is steam an app store for games or a framework to write games in?
<SuperMatt> the first one
<SuperMatt> steamworks in an api
<SuperMatt> or a framework
<SuperMatt> whatevs
<popey> Steam is a shop + drm system
<popey> if that story is true then they are also porting their game dev framework over
<popey> AlanBell, turns out that onboard theme was eating the CPU
<popey> all the gradients on the keyboard were killing it
<AlanBell> yeah, some can be a bit hungry
<AlanBell> bug 890221 was filed by me :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 890221 in Onboard "emboss effect on keycaps slows rendering" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/890221
<popey> heh
<knightwise> Managing a fleet of iPad users is like trying to herd chickens
<Darael> Quite doable, but requires a little skill?
<SuperMatt> frustrating to say the least
<AlanBell> popey: so does the typist theme make sense on a touchscreen?
<AlanBell> and the model M theme?
<gebbione> hi i m experiencing strange problems with
<SuperMatt> typing?
<SuperMatt> nouns?
<gebbione> SuperMatt,
<SuperMatt> sorry, bad joke
<davmor2> bunny rabbits with big pointy teeth
<SuperMatt> I've got something for that
<SuperMatt> The Holy Handgrenade
<popey> dunno AlanBell they stole my nexus 7 for QA
<gebbione> the sound settings ... since loading the loopback module
<AlanBell> popey: flash the other one!
<popey> Uh. No.
<SuperMatt> oh, that's not really my field of expertise
<Laney> my god
<Laney> infoworld is a hideous website
<Laney> oh phippsy :(
<daubers> infoworld?
<Laney> http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source-software/why-i-left-my-macbook-chromebook-205705
<daubers> oh
<daubers> yeah
<shauno> the chromebook terrifies me.  that kinda reliance on google is troubling
<BigRedS> It's just ocurred to me that UDS is probably a bit less beery than fosdem
<mattt> probably
<mattt> i remember the first time i went to fosdem, i went to the designated pub the friday of the conference
<mattt> it must have been around 8 or 9 PM when i got there, and it had the 6 am rave feel to it
<BigRedS> Haha, the closest I've come to the official fosdem pub is walking sort-of near it and catching a whiff of it...
<popey> marginally
<popey> given UDS (for us canonical people) is two weeks
<popey> and so far I've been out every night
<popey> BigRedS, you should come to UDS! :)
<BigRedS> popey: I'm there on Tuesday. But apparently get in relatively late Monday and leave early weds
<popey> awww
<popey> poke me when you get here
<popey> I got a taxi from the airport, was only ~16 quid
<BigRedS> ah, will do!
<popey> local money is 10:1 for GBP
<popey> so exchange is easy to figure out
<BigRedS> I'll be rich!
<popey> hah
<popey> there's a good pizza place in walking distance
<popey> its like a typical kebab shop with a few tables
<popey> guy doesn't speak a word of english, makes awesome pizzas, and has plenty of beer in the fridge
<BigRedS> Sounds perfect!
<popey> it is, cheap too
<BigRedS> Just looking at the schedule, there's some round-tables which I guess are discussions. The things that aren't called 'round tables' are they more an update on the status of what's in the title?
<popey> the round tables are mostly where there is no fixed topic
<popey> so you can bring anything up
<popey> *belch*
<popey> those that aren't round tables have a fixed topic and are participatory, not usually "read only"
<popey> you are encouraged to join in
<BigRedS> Ahhh, cool
<BigRedS> So I can go round proclaiming the Truth of the swap file :)
<popey> haha
<SuperMatt> ok, the deja-dup backup thing *really* needs amazon glacier support
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/duplicity/+bug/1039511 :)
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1039511 in Duplicity "Support for Amazon Glacier" [Undecided,New]
<SuperMatt> yeah, I saw that one earlier
<BigRedS> I really need to re-look at AWS I think. Everything seems to have changed since I last spent a while swearing at it
<BigRedS> Maybe it's less sweary now
<SuperMatt> I'm using it for a couple of servers, and maybe file storage
<SuperMatt> depends how easy it is to upload to glacier
<Laney> 4h19m to get the train Nottingham-Heathrow on Sunday
<Laney> 2h plane LHR-CPH
<AlanBell> LoCo team CDs have arrived
<SuperMatt> huzzah
<SuperMatt> now I need to be bothered to send you a stampped addressed envelope
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<einonm> AlanBell: Is that the 12.10 release?
<AlanBell> einonm: yes, they just arrived
<AlanBell> pre-ordered ones have been popped in the post
<einonm> ah, ok. Saw it on the front of Linux user&developer too, may be tempted to get it with a 'free' mag... :)
<einonm> ...although most linux mags tend to be about the RasPi these days
<ali1234> why do you even want a CD? it's useless in 5 months
<einonm> To distribute - people love to get something physical when it's 'free' and are more inclinded to try it, over a weblink
<einonm> I've converted a few people by giving CDs and pendrives, never with a weblink. Always handy to have a few around, for whatever distro
<einonm> I really like the Linux Format mag disks for that - since they have a bookshelf of free linux books included too, saves me having to provide some support and answer questions.
<BigRedS> Oh lordy. I'm playing buzzword bingo on tuesday
<BigRedS> http://uds.ubuntu.com/enterprise-summit/
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> BigRedS: http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/
<AlanBell> now with desktop integration \o/
 * AlanBell adds hyperscale to the list
<BigRedS> there's a ubingo webapp?
<AlanBell> yeah, any web page can do desktop integration it doesn't have to be a pre-installed script
<AlanBell> BigRedS: you should get notifications, a launcher icon and a launcher progress bar
<BigRedS> Oh, so the webpage can offer it?
<AlanBell> I want to add that to some other, more sensible applications we offer
<BigRedS> are your customers largely ubuntu on the desktop, too?
<AlanBell> yes, the webpage can set window.Unity = external.getUnityObject(1); and carry on from there
<AlanBell> no, our customers are not yet
<BigRedS> I need to read up on thism, might see if I can wedge it in to some of our internal things
<BigRedS> Got any good docs?
<AlanBell> but I want to add webapp stuff to vtiger and openERP so that they work slightly better with Ubuntu
<AlanBell> so we can push that stuff upstream in open source applications
<AlanBell> as long as the unity team don't break their API in undocumented ways (like they just did with the messaging menu)
<AlanBell> no, there are no good docs
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.04/javascript/index.html is bad docs
<AlanBell> if you read that, then read some source code you can figure it out
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> cheers!
<bigcalm> Anybody care to recommend a headless podcast downloader?
<Laney> what's a good router (to use with a superhub)?
<bigcalm> Laney: I currently use a Netgear WNDR3700
<Laney> last time I did any router monkeying (some years ago) I used tomato
<Laney> is that still good?
<bigcalm> Never used it. I have experience of dd-wrt and open-wrt
<bigcalm> Currently using open-wrt as it allows me to share my phone's 3g connection to the entire LAN via a USB port - very useful when VirginMedia dies
<Laney> so that's flashable?
<bigcalm> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start
<Laney> huh, there's a 48.95 "like new" one
<Laney>  Free One-Day Delivery: Get it Saturday, 27 October.
<Laney> â¥
<davmor2> Laney: I have a basic tp-link tl841nd with dd-wrt on it and it hasn't missed a beat so far (ie much better than the stock firmware)
<Azelphur> http://steamcommunity.com/games/221410 people should join this (it's an official group)
<popey> :)
<popey> it was ~2400 when I joined
<popey> growing fast
<Azelphur> fun, I'm behind
<Azelphur> is that the application for access? or is that just a group
<Azelphur> I hope it ain't the access, I've been watching the blog and they didn't announce it :(
<popey> no idea
<AlanBell> games are surprisingly popular
<popey> Azelphur, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/10/valve-to-launch-steam-linux-beta-at-uds
<popey> no idea if that's true
<Azelphur> yea, I read that
<Azelphur> I reckon they will, it makes sense
<Azelphur> I know they was scheduled for the 15th but they didn't do that for some reason, probably a combination of valve time and wanting to launch at UDS
<Azelphur> are you going to UDS?
<bigcalm> Oh that's nice. Thunar can't handle the >> char in the UUPC feed name and so shows an empty dir
<Venko> So I'm still running 11.10 on this laptop and I'm wondering if it's worth doing a clean install of 12.10
<Venko> I've not kept up with Ubuntu development but I've heard some bad stuff on Twitter and Reddit about cloud searching advertisements or something. Would it be worth my time doing a clean install>
<Laney> you can turn that off
<Venko> So are there any significant features to make it worth my time backing my home folder up, downloading an iso and upgrading?
<popey> I'd certainly upgrade to 12.04 at least
<popey> and then decide if you want to go to 12.10
<popey> one of my team is already on 13.04 (for what it's worth) :D
<MooDoo> hello all
<Venko> Well won't upgrading break everything? That's my usual experience with upgrade software. I was thinking of just going for a clean install.
<popey> no
<Venko> OK should I do a full update of my current packages? (490mb) before running the upgrade tool or will it grab them anyway?
<Venko> OK well I'm doing that first anyway. It should take quite a while n___n
<brobostigon> so, finally, ubuntu on nexus7, entirly replaces android. so no chroot or such. that answers the question.
<brobostigon> i wont be getting rid of android though, so a dualboot method. would be useful. in my mind.
<AlanBell> you would be able to return it to stock
<brobostigon> yes, as i have done several times. already.
<AlanBell> you *might* be able to run virtualisation on it and run android in that
<AlanBell> probably not enough ram though
<brobostigon> agreed.
<christel> AlanBell: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone go give these guys all your money <3
<AlanBell> christel: I did
<christel> oh good :D
<AlanBell> well, not all the moneys
<brobostigon> lol
<AlanBell> I might do a bit more money
<christel> yah i was just pondering doing a bit more because they are getting fairly close to goal (considering)
<christel> im pondering how much of a beating i'd get if i wallopped it :s
 * AlanBell chucks in another $100
<AlanBell> I suspect they will get it, they have had about 70,000 today
<Azelphur> Does Ubuntu 12.10 have native MTP support yet?
<AlanBell> Azelphur: it did not work well for me
<AlanBell> wouldn't sync with more than a small number of tracks
<AlanBell> had to delete everything on the nexus and sync from empty to get stuff on
<Azelphur> fun
<Flashtek> AlanBell: camera ordered
<Flashtek> also a 6 D cell maglite
<Flashtek> for when the undesireables come knocking.
<Azelphur> http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php gogogogo
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-27
<irc_FoxDie> hi
<Azelphur> Anyone know if oracle java has an ARM build?
<shauno> heh, you're funny.
<shauno> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/downloads/javase/index.html
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> so that gets me in browser java on arm?
 * Azelphur grabs that :P
<Azelphur> hmm, so many options
<Azelphur> there's only one headful version, so I suppose that's the one I want?
<shauno> haven't the foggiest I'm afraid
<Azelphur> me either
<Azelphur> maybe icedtea will work
<shauno> however, 'headful' is a fun word that I may try to use again some time
<Azelphur> xD
<directhex> Azelphur: i don't think there's a java browser plugin for ARM
<shauno> trying to buy ubercheap servers isn't fun.  appears intel have an aversion to stating which chips are EMT64 and which are actually x86_64
<directhex> e.g. firefox doesn't properly support browser plugins on arm
<directhex> shauno: er, what's the difference?
<Azelphur> :<
<shauno> I don't believe 64bit builds of ubuntu will run on a 6yo xeon that's emt64 but not amd64
<directhex> i kinda got moonlight running on ARM by patching monlight to identify its browser API as "Unknown_Linux" rather than "Linux_i386_gcc34" or something like that
<directhex> shauno: i think you're mistaken.
<shauno> it's a possibility, especially if you ask my wife.  but I'm fairly averse to buying servers off ebay without knowing for sure
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Older_implementations are all the differences
<directhex> i really don't think ubuntu is built not to run on older em64t chips
<directhex> and if you order tonight, you can get a new HP server for <Â£150. http://www.ebuyer.com/281915-hp-proliant-turion-ii-n40l-microserver-100-cashback-658553-421
<shauno> yeah, I've been watching out for those.  they haven't run the cashback thing in the republic since december :/
<shauno> oh no, looks like it ran in september too
<bb15> Good morning!
<dwatkins> ello
<bootinfdsds> dwatkins,  Looks like they made it ! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone/
<dwatkins> bootinfdsds: interesting
<dwatkins> bootinfdsds: the little penguin under his TV looks exactly like the one given out to all SGI employees about 7 years ago, perhaps he used to work there.
<dwatkins> What I don't understand about Kickstarter projects like this is why the larger manufacturers aren't already doing this sort of thing.
<AlanBell> dwatkins: because they have the capital already
<AlanBell> or can raise it conventionally
<dwatkins> AlanBell: I mean that I don't know why the bigger manufacturers aren't making this kind of board ;)
<AlanBell> oh, right :)
<dwatkins> Sorry for being ambiguous.
<AlanBell> heh, I was going to drift off into an economics lecture :)
<dwatkins> We had snow yesterday in Doncaster, it's getting properly cold now.
<dwatkins> I do enjoy hearing about economics. Someone pointed out the other day that Apple's prices being high means that people are reassured by them.
<dwatkins> "reassuringly expensive" actually does sell
<AlanBell> yes, it does
<christel> i was pleased to see they made it and shall look forward to receiving my board!
<christel> \o/
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to get one, christel.
<christel> :D
<dwatkins> I didn't know there was an Ubuntu release for RISC.
<ali1234> nobody is making a board like that because it is of limited use outside academia
<ali1234> nobody else needs parallel computing just for the sake of it
<ali1234> "45GHz CPU"
<christel> i parsed board as beard \o/
<ali1234> by their metric an i7 is 24 GHz
<ali1234> so their 64 core version which doesn't exist yet is twice as good as an i7
<ali1234> except that it isn't because their risc core is nowhere near as powerful as an x86, clock for clock.
<ali1234> so basically if the question is "why is nobody making massively inefficient and point parallel computing devices" i think the answer is obvious
<popey> morning all
<directhex> ali1234: for once, we wholeheartedly agree!
<ali1234> directhex: it's not the first time
<directhex> it's a 2-core arm a9, with some crazy vector nonsense on the side. like my first cell for kids
<ali1234> yep. great for teaching "how to write parallel software" but of little use in the real world, because real hardware is so much better
<ali1234> dwatkins: the ubuntu OS that comes with it will only run on the ARM cores
<directhex> not even useful for that, tbh
<ali1234> maybe, maybe not
<directhex> it's no use for teaching parallel programming, since it can't teach any of the parallel programming paradigms used in real-world scale-up architecture
<ali1234> why not?
<directhex> i.e. it's not openmp or mpi or opencl, therefore it's esoteric single-use nonsense
<ali1234> they claim it supports openmp and mpi
<directhex> pfft
<directhex> i'll believe it when i see it
<directhex> hint: i won't see it
<popey> directhex, signed up for the valve beta?
<directhex> popey: bien sur!
<popey> http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
<ali1234> maybe i misread it
<ali1234> writing a opencl implementation for it should at least be possible and probably make a nice undergraduate thesis for someone
<directhex> opencl i can see it doing
<directhex> the architecture doesn't allow for openmp, and memory constraints make it kinda useless for nontrivial mpi
<ali1234> though if you want opencl to play on, just get a GPU
<directhex> but you'd learn more writing an mpi app on a multi-core linux desktop, using the shared memory back-end
<directhex> the secret truth about parallel computing is you don't want 64 crap cores. you want 1 super powerful one. every time
<directhex> if your app is 99% parallelizable and efficient, on 64 cores, that means 0.99^64 i.e. 52%
<ali1234> yes. parallel computing is where you go when you've exceeded the limits of what you can do with 1 core.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<andyc> This is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but does anyone know of any good deals on laptops at the moment that have good support for ubuntu?
<andyc> I had heard that thinkpads generally run linux quite well but don't know whether this is still the case
<andyc> I'm thinking in terms of ACPI support for suspend/hibernate specifically
<andyc> (I'm assuming that network/sound are generally well supported but I've found that waking from suspend is something which my computer struggles with)
<SuperMatt> installing windows 8. restart count: 3
<SuperMatt> so far
<SuperMatt> and this is just an inline install
<bigcalm_laptop> Jello!
<awilkins> Straw poll ; how many people have removed unity-lens-shopping ?
<bashrc> yes
<ahayzen> no
<bigcalm_laptop> *GONG*
<ahayzen> was i supposed to? lol ;)
<awilkins> Not implying a right choice either way, just interested to know peoples opinion and their actions reflect that the best :-)
<bigcalm_laptop> I had a quick look and wasn't happy how it worked. There didn't appear to be an 'easy' click here to disable
 * bigcalm_laptop continues with xubuntu and ignorant bliss
<bashrc> I think it can be dissabled within the privacy settings
<bigcalm_laptop> It can, but that takes effort
<ahayzen> doesn't that disable all data from the internet though?
<bigcalm_laptop> Or, more effort
<ahayzen> eg the U1 Music Store data source? or have i miss understood that button?
<bigcalm_laptop> Off I pop
<ali1234> i haven't installed 12.10 but if i had, i would remove it
<ali1234> there wouldn't be any point in me having it installed anyway as I have uninstall unity because it depends on compiz-0.9 which conflicts with compiz
<AlanBell> ahayzen: no, it doesn't disable all data from the internet
<AlanBell> it is just a preference setting that lenses and scopes can decide whether or not to honour
<ahayzen> AlanBell, ah i see thanks
<AlanBell> it actually has almost nothing to do with whether results come from the internet or not
<ahayzen> but it says 'Include online search results' :(
<AlanBell> yeah, it lies
<AlanBell> well, misleads
<ahayzen> yeah
<AlanBell> if you check it then some canonical produced lenses will s
<bashrc> I thought the dash was a nice feature in 12.04, but then they went and messed it up in 12.10 with the amazon stuff
<AlanBell> if you uncheck it then some canonical produced lenses will stop providing online search results
<AlanBell> bashrc: that is nonsense, it had youtube stuff in 12.04
<ahayzen> *some* ;)
<ahayzen> not all then
<bashrc> yes, but the youtube stuff didn't appear in the default search, it was within its own lens
<AlanBell> ahayzen: well, all the default ones I think
<ahayzen> awesome...but it should work as a kill switch for all lenses official or not
<bashrc> I thought the youtube search was a good feature of 12.04
<AlanBell> bashrc: true, and I don't like the way they have set the invisible property on the amazon lens
<AlanBell> bashrc: yeah, it is a good feature, as is the amazon lens. Just the "OMG Amazon are getting our search queries!!11!" stuff isn't really news
<bashrc> don't know if anyone has already seen this  http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
<AlanBell> all lenses and scopes can listen to your global search queries and do evil stuff with them if they want
<AlanBell> you can today write a scope/lens that displays *nothing* does not appear in the lens bar, does not present any results but listens to every query you type
<bashrc> amazon in it's own lens would be fine, especially if specific lenses are uninstallable (I almost never use amazon)
<AlanBell> and sends it off to an evil datawarehouse full of  "term" and "gedi" and "firef"
<AlanBell> and that evil scope could do it's evil "gedi" harvesting irrespective of your choice in the privacy dialog
<AlanBell> personally I think the non-functional privacy checkbox is the bad thing, the lens itself is fine
<AlanBell> and I don't think lenses should be permitted to set visible=false and hide from the lens bar at the bottom of the dash
<bashrc> didn't know that could happen
<AlanBell> that is how the amazon lens doesn't show up there
<bashrc> hidden lenses sending data to who knows where could be pretty bad - imagine what spammers would do with it
<AlanBell> I was trying to find out what the relevant UDS session would be to raise these topics but I don't see a lens thing on the schedule yet
<AlanBell> bashrc: well, I actually can't imagine what spammers would do with "gedi" and "ter"
<AlanBell> but in principal I agree
<AlanBell> personally I don't type high quality harvestable data into the global dash search
<bashrc> with the possibility of there being more proprietary stuff on ubuntu in future - especially games - it's probably a good idea not to build in features which could allow the user to be tricked
<AlanBell> would be interesting to find out if other people do . . . I could write a simple hidden lens to get some data on this . . .
<AlanBell> argh, I just turned evil didn't I
<bashrc> where's the black hat...
<bashrc> any info cn be used as a crib
<bashrc> or just for traffic analysis
<bashrc> but anyway that kind of stuff is sufficiently proximal to personal files/documents that it's a potential security issue
<bashrc> especially if I was using ubuntu in a business context
<ali1234> i have yet to see a good explanation of how, if i am searching for a video on youtube, it is useful to me to have recipes, news articles, files from my hard disk, and products i can buy on amazon mixed into the search results randomly
<bashrc> I suppose the Microsoft equivalent would be that anything you type into the windows explorer search box gets sent to Redmond by default.
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> or google desktop
<ali1234> or chrome OS
<awilkins> I think Google Desktop and ChromeOS probably did / do that
<bashrc> yes, but I think chromeos is not much more than a kernel and a browser
<awilkins> For similar reasons - Google want all your data with them
<ali1234> the revenue Canonical earns from integrated amazon search results will be used to bring you more great features like integrated amazon search results
<bashrc> heh
<bashrc> but as a linux user I don't want to become the product
<directhex> canonical needs revenue streams
<bashrc> true, but there are better ways of doing it
<ali1234> without that revenue great features like integrated amazon search results just wouldn't be possible
<directhex> if you didn't hand over money for it, then you're the product. applies everywhere.
<ahayzen> anyone know how much Canonical will be getting from including the amazon search results?
<ali1234> http://xkcd.com/1021/ probably the most insightful cartoon xkcd man ever made
<directhex> ahayzen: presumably they're just going to get affiliate money when people buy things from those results
<ahayzen> directhex, yeah...but i wonder what cut they get
<ali1234> the same cut as anyone
<ahayzen> which is?
<ali1234> which reminds me i need to make a ubuntu respin with my amazon affiliate account and then seed it on pirate bay
<directhex> "up to 10%"
<directhex> https://affiliate-program.amazon.co.uk/
<ahayzen> directhex, thanks...will be interesting how much they get from this per release
<directhex> a gorillion dollars!
<ahayzen> him they could get quite a lot
<ahayzen> say there are 5 million unity users (20 million Ubuntu users last time i check - say 25% on 12.10 and unity) .... then say that 10% of them spend Â£5 on amazon... if that revenue is from the total price and not the profit then Canonical would get Â£250,000!
<ali1234> 10% is far too high
<ahayzen> but then Â£5 is probably too low?
<ali1234> not really
<ahayzen> dunno was just putting random numbers in to see wht the outcome would be
<ali1234> not enough to make up for 10% being two orers of magnitude too high
<bashrc> and then what's the salary for canonical's staff?
<ahayzen> well how many man hours does it take to create and run the servers that power the lens
<bashrc> So ubuntu included a feature which only 0.1% of its users might actually use?
<ali1234> when you look at who unity is actually used by, yeah pretty much
<bashrc> :-)
<ali1234> basically children, people who are scared of computers, and canonical employees
<bashrc> that's a bit harsh
<ali1234> children don't have disposable income. people who are afraid of computers are extremely afraid of online shopping
<ali1234> harsh but true
<ali1234> i forgot fanbois
<bashrc> but if you notice in a lot of the YouTube tech reviews of distros they're usually running virtualbox within ubuntu with unity
<ahayzen> so was it actually worth the hassle/backlash from implementing the feature for the small revenue gain they will get?
<ali1234> if you notice a lot of those videos are done by 15 year old kids too
<bashrc> not the ones I watch
<ali1234> i wouldn't watch a review of a distro done in a virtual machine. i can do that myself.
<ahayzen> i would have personally preferred them to have finished the spread design specification or Local Menus first
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> so i would estimate that perhaps 50% of ubuntu users are on unity
<ali1234> of those maybe 25% are on 12.10
<ali1234> that's 2.5 million
<ali1234> assuming 20 million users is at all accurate
<AlanBell> ali1234: the affiliate code isn't present in the desktop it is in products.ubuntu.com
<alexcockell> Hi all...
<alexcockell> Who's about - and who's got ITV1 tuned in?
<christel> im about but i fear i am watching soccer saturday, whats on itv1? :)
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<alexcockell> A New Hope... Greedo's just had his nuts fried...
<DJones> I just looked at the year of production for that, must admit, its 20 years younger than I thought, I thought it was more 1977, not 1997
<Pendulum> A New Hope is 1977 originally (although I think it was originally just Star Wars). But Lucas made his CGI changes and re-released it as Star Wars: A New Hope in 1997
<alexcockell> Yup - it's the SE version that's airing.
<Pendulum> I don't know that it's possible to get ahold of the originals these days
<Pendulum> (unless you know someone with them on VHS who can burn them to CD for you)
<SuperEngineer> been trying out "other desktops" [gnome & cinnamon].  safely removed cinnamon via a ppa-purge - but it worries me removing gnome-desktop.
<Pendulum> I don't mind the 97 versions. I'm not completely ballistic about the change he later made to part of the end of Return of the Jedi (after the movies I refuse to acknowledge were done), but I prefer the 97 or originals
<SuperEngineer> is there a guarenteed safe way
<SuperEngineer> [e.g. synaptic] I'm concerned that a removal might remove Unity / normal desktop stuff as well
<alexcockell> Pendulum - they did see a DVD release in about 2000...
<Pendulum> alexcockell: is that the one where they made the really controversial change? I remembered it being about 2004
<Pendulum> (and I'd have expected it to be later than 2000)
<DJones> I'm sure I've got a vhs video of the original hidden in a box under the stairs
<Pendulum> yeah, it was with the 2004 box set that what I'd call the most controversial change happened to Return of the Jedi (it's the only change I really would prefer to revert to the original, I just didn't go ballistic the way a couple people I know who are Star Wars obsessed did)
<Pendulum> most of the changes I can take or leave and there are a couple from the 97 SE that I think actually make the movies a bit better
<alexcockell> Do you mean the "Wesa free!" line?
<Pendulum> nope
<alexcockell> Oh - I remember - 2004 - Hayden Photoshopped in?
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> that one
<alexcockell> Didn't get that boxset.. I had the SE on VHS and the silver DVD boxset...
<alexcockell> Oh - and had the two spools of highlights on Super 8 back in the day..
<Pendulum> nice
 * AlanBell goes to upgrade an Ubuntu Server CD
<Pendulum> somewhere I have a burned version of the Christmas Special, but I don't know if I've ever tried to actually play it
<alexcockell> I streamed it off Youtube... All I could say is OUCH.
<alexcockell> Oh - no - was he Nostalgia Critic review.
<Pendulum> yeah, it was more I was getting it because it was cheap on ebay and to just say I had it for the looks on people's faces ;)
<SuperEngineer> oh well, I'll take that as a no then [rule 1: without knowledge of outcome... don't do]
<alexcockell> re the Super 8 spools - as I was only 7-8, Dad spliced them into the correct sequence...
<bittin> X
<alexcockell> Hiya Bittin..
<bittin> Hiya alan_g
<bittin> alexcockell even
<penguin42> heck, nPower's apparent 9% price rise is actually 19% for me
<mattt> penguin42: i'm scared
<mattt> early drop in temperatures + significant energy price rises won't bode well for a lot of people
<penguin42> mattt: I switched to this when my previous fixed gas scheme finished only a month or so ago, there were no fixed ones available, so I went for the cheapest unfixed, and reckoned if it went up by 10% it would still be reasonalbe; what thjey've done is put the supposed average up 9.2% but massively changed the balance between standing rate/unit; this one was good for me precisely because it was a high standing rate
<shauno> tihs is curious.  'screen' seems to have exploded on me overnight.  and I can't figure out why.  after running fine for 200+ days, it's now nagging me constantly.  (and it's survived a reboot)
<penguin42> nagging?
<shauno> I keep getting messages across the bottom row, complaining about trying to attach to a bad pid, or /dev/pts/3 not existing
<shauno> which is getting annoying because I can't type until they're gone
<penguin42> is /dev/pts/3 there?
<shauno> it's not.  it's complained about 4 and 5 too, which are also not there.  but I'm not sure what's changed
<penguin42> that's....odd
<shauno> I'm on lucid, so the list of what's changed lately is incredibly small
<penguin42> sounds like a job for strace
<shauno> waiting for it to do it again so I can snag them.  but I haven't spotted rhyme nor reason yet, so no idea how long I'll be waiting
<shauno> Attach attempt with bad pid(16312)!
<shauno> This is the one that's perplexing.  I have no idea where it's getting this number from  (I rebooted recently, and am only up to pid 4500-ish)
<penguin42> is pid ordering still deterministic these days?
<shauno> they look fairly sequential looking at the contents of /proc
<shauno> (I'm not sure if 10.04 counts as 'these days')
<penguin42> shauno: Have you got multiuser mode enabled? There are a few people saying they got stuff like that with it on
<shauno> not that I know of.  all I have in my screenrc is 'defutf8 on'
<penguin42> shauno: looking through the screen source there is a lot of debug that can be turned on in the attacher.c code
<penguin42> shauno: My best guess is that something is poking the socket in /tmp for some reason
<shauno> it does seem something else is actually trying to attach.  I just got kicked out of the help screen because my window geometry changed  (mine didn't)
<Darael> check ps for other running copies of screen that might be trying to attach?
<shauno> ah, I have 3 copies of autossh running on my laptop.  that won't help.  ugh.
<penguin42> autossh?
<shauno> it's meant to sit in the background and try to relaunch ssh whenever it drops, because I use it for tunnels more than anything else
<penguin42> how does that interact with screen?
<shauno> but there really shouldn't be multiple copies running.  just killed them all of
<shauno> screen's in my .bashrc
<shauno> because I'm incredibly lazy :)  (although it does check to see if TERM is set to xterm first, else scp tries to attach screen, and life gets miserable)
<penguin42> but why does it attaching break?
<shauno> I'm not sure.  I still can't figure out where those pids came from either
<shauno> no messages since I killed them and restarted it though.  very strange.  that's ticked away quite happily for years
<penguin42> shauno: Almost though the stream of data on the socket got out of sync
<shauno> most of these things work so well that I completely forget they're there, and just trust that when I hit my hotkey, screen is there waiting for me
<penguin42> yeh, things you set up n years ago, forget about, forget how you set them up, until they break
<shauno> and then when you see what's happening, you wonder who on earth bodged this all together in the first place
<penguin42> haha yes :-)
<ahayzen> Hi, having an issue with apt saying that an application depends on 'libglew1.6 (>= 1.6.0) but it is not installable'...but i have libglew1.8 installed...anyone know a way to tell apt to ignore the error or a workaround? Thanks Andy
<AlanBell> ahayzen: what application?
<ahayzen> AlanBell, trying to install vdrift from playdeb repo ;)
<AlanBell> ahayzen: you should be able to install libglew1.6 that is a separate package
<AlanBell> libglew1.8 is a different package to libglew1.6, it isn't a higher version number of the same thing
<ahayzen> AlanBell, it doesn't appear in apt though?
<AlanBell> as far as apt is concerned
<AlanBell> !info libglew1.6
<ahayzen> and it says it was removed here ... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/amd64/libglew1.6
<lubotu3> Package libglew1.6 does not exist in quantal
<Darael> Wait, playdeb works?  How long has that been the case?  For months, getdeb and playdeb were both giving me 403s.
<AlanBell> hmm, I appear to have it installed
<ahayzen> i've done a clean install of 12.10 x64
<AlanBell> I suspect you may be out of luck until the playdeb package gets fixed
<AlanBell> maybe talk to cjwatson who removed it
<AlanBell> he is in #ubuntu-motu
<ahayzen> ok...may try compiling it again see if i can get round the odd permission errors i had last time....thanks
<ahayzen> AlanBell, thanks
<ahayzen> AlanBell, my bad, just realised that the software source says 'precise-getdeb' changed it to 'quantal-getdeb' seems to be installing something now ;)
<czajkowski> evening
<Laney> grargh
<Laney> so not looking forward to the early start tomorrow
<czajkowski> Laney: how bad is your start?
<czajkowski> also dont forget clocks change
<Laney> first train 0744
<penguin42> ouch
<czajkowski> oh nasty
<czajkowski> I'll be awake but still
<Laney> it takes twice as long to get to the airport than it does to get from there to cph
<Laney> clocks back is a shitter indeed
<Laney> i think i might not be very fun tomorrow night :P
<penguin42> isn't that good for you? It means it's really 844 in todays clocks?
<Laney> oh wait, it's an extra hour this time isn't it
<Laney> spring forward, fall back
 * czajkowski kicks Laney speak english! no such thing as all 
<czajkowski> *fall
<dwatkins> "autumn back" isn't quite as memorable, though
<Darael> Can we promote "autumn" as a verb synonymous to "fall", just to confuse Merkians?
 * dwatkins autumns over
<AlanBell> apparently they are starting to call it autumn
<AlanBell> because fall is a silly name for it
<dwatkins> agreed, AlanBell
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19929249
<Laney> yeah, the alternative doesn't help me remember :-)
 * AlanBell would like the Americans to adopt the phrase "chuffed to bits"
<czajkowski> it is a silly name
 * Darael imagines it in an American accent, and shudders.
<czajkowski> fall y'all
<czajkowski> bah
<dwatkins> I can think of a few english slang phrases that would raise an eyebrow in the US, due to the double meaning of certain words.
<dwatkins> e.g. to steal a cigarette, in the colloquial form
<AlanBell> yeah, that is a good one
<Darael> I'd have translated that one as "beg" rather than "steal", but...
<Darael> Point stands.
<dwatkins> yeah, Darael - I used to say 'can I steal one...?' when I meant that.
<Darael> dwatkins: That was my guess.  I do that too.  Just thinking that if we're trying to avoid colloquialisms to make meaning explicit, "beg" is probably better.
 * dwatkins is watching XP being installed, a painful process on a good day but this machine has some kind of hardware problem or driver issues
<dwatkins> indeed, Darael :)
<dwatkins> I suggested they use Linux, but the kid's going to be playing games - I can't wait for Steam to be available with many games for Linux too
<Darael> Well, except I don't do that with cigarettes.  But in analogous situations.
 * dwatkins gave up stealing them
<Laney> czajkowski: help me think what i've forgotten to pack
<dwatkins> I've gone on holiday without my passport before.
<czajkowski> Laney: tea bags
<czajkowski> Laney: adaptor
<czajkowski> Laney: gaffa tape!
<Laney> hmm, tea, intriguing
<Laney> i can't find my adaptors :(
<AlanBell> dwatkins: I got through security at Heathrow on theopensourcerer's passport once
<Laney> I swear every trip I buy a new one
<dwatkins> AlanBell: I assume you look rather different ;)
<Darael> dwatkins, AlanBell: I've flown on a railcard before.
<AlanBell> dwatkins: most people don't mix us up
<dwatkins> Darael: I did consider trying to fly with my driving license as ID.
<dwatkins> Actually, it was the chunnel, not a flight.
<Darael> dwatkins: Well, for domestic flights they'll take just about anything.
<Darael> EU ones are slightly more stringent, but a DL might be enough.
<dwatkins> yeah, I suspected they might not mind me not actually having a passport as I was staying within Europe, but didn't want to chance it, so rushed home and picked up my passport - got the train in the end, too.
<Laney> I forgot to put GY!BE on my phone!
<Laney> criminal
<dwatkins> Canadian post-rock?
<Laney> something like that
<Laney> I Find it accompanies travelling very well
<czajkowski> Laney: jumper scarf glovs and a hat
<Laney> yeah got that
<AlanBell> Laney: something to wear for the Gangnam Style flash mob on Tuesday
<Laney> O_O
<czajkowski> :o
<cocoa117> how do u make ubuntu go to sleep when idled?
<AlanBell> cocoa117: click on the battery in the top panel and go to power settings...
<AlanBell> then you can set different timeouts for battery/AC power
<mattt> evening all
<cocoa117> AlanBell, what about a desktop computer?
<AlanBell> oh, them! same thing but in the system settings area
<cocoa117> AlanBell, can this be done on a server system?
<AlanBell> erm, maybe, there was some work done on server suspend
<AlanBell> and the metal as a service stuff might use it
<czajkowski> right thats the heathrow express booked
<AlanBell> off tomorrow czajkowski?
<czajkowski> yarp
<dubac0> hello
<Darael> Good... morning.
<dubac0> oh=?
<Darael> Clocks don't go back for an hour.  It's five to one.
<dubac0> and will be for an hour?
<dubac0> kan haz time travel
<dubac0> :P
<Darael> Well, it's two to one now.
<Darael> And in an hour and two minutes, it will be one again.
<penguin42> time itself will be reversed
<dubac0> Darael, 15
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-28
<dubac0> 10
<Darael> Alternatively, we'll stop using British Silly Time and revert to /reasonable/ time.
<dubac0> yeah time will always be relitive
<dubac0> buzz_, who'd your isp? ipv6 i notice
<buzz_> virgin media - im using a hurricane electric tunnel for ipv6
<Darael> True, but as long as we're going to use the hours, minutes, and seconds we /do/, with the convention that the zero-mark is midnight and the twelve-mark noon, we might as well /stick/ to that.
<buzz_> http://tunnelbroker.net/
<Darael> HE are excellent.  They do a free DNS hosting service, too.
<dubac0> we? lest i don't use them often, only when i have meetings etc and connections with the */real/* world
<buzz_> yeh. i use that also :)
<dubac0> which is reprohesablly fake and plasic
<dwatkins> Why not simply have everyone use GMT? ;)
<Darael> I'd rather use UTC, even if it /is/ always within a second of GMT.
<dwatkins> I must admit I don't know the difference.
<Darael> But yes, time zones are also silly.  Just not as silly as daylight "saving" time.
<dwatkins> quite
<dwatkins> as if by magic, it gets lighter at a particular time of day for your safety, thus making another part of the day darker.
<dubac0> Darael, when? when is it within one second of gmt?
<Darael> dubac0: UTC is /always/ within one second of GMT.
<Darael> The industry in this country that gets the biggest benefit isn't even the one that's usually held up as the reason.  It's not the farmers, it's the charcoal burners, from people having more barbies in the "longer" evenings.
<dubac0> Darael,  :/ spotify know i am in student digs
<dubac0> they play adverts to me for local student deals
<dwatkins> that's easy, they see your ip address
<Darael> GeoIP databeses are a thing that exists.
<dubac0> dwatkins, no, they see a swedish vpn
<Darael> Well, actually, they aren't, but they would be if one substituted an a for an e.
<dubac0_> see
<penguin42> ooh
<penguin42> ahh
 * penguin42 had better go to bed before it gets late again
<dubac0_>  i'd like others to remember that i live by a philosophy, a principle really and that I believe that...that if you can do good things with the world, you had a moral obligation to do those things, weather it be volunteering 10% of the free time you have or 10% of the disposable income one has after saving 10%
<dubac0_> or simply sitting on an irc channel helping folks with Ubuntu
<dubac0_> :D
<Laney> URHGURHGURHGR
<czajkowski> Laney: morning :)
<popey> morning
<SuperEngineer> o/
<SuperEngineer> was there a net split earlier on? [clue, UUK only showed 7 users!]
<danfish> morning
<popey> yo
<danfish> there's an old adage in carpentry - measure twice, cut once
<danfish> in soldering it's "lay out components twice, solder once, then desolder and suffer finger burns ;)"
<danfish> popey: you off to UDS?
<popey> already here
<popey> been here a week
<danfish> ah! Having fun?
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: morning!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've just upgraded wifey's pc with new mobo and proc etc. And stupidly I installed 12.10 on it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just discovered bug 1064962 How on earth this did get out before release?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1064962 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu Quantal) "Global menubar items do not work when opening a document directly from nautilus with no LibreOffice instance running" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064962
<TheOpenSourcerer> No menus on LO
<TheOpenSourcerer> FFS
 * popey looks
<danfish> oops
<TheOpenSourcerer> Everything was going so well until that point.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<popey> do you have lo on the launcher?
<popey> icons in the launcher for writer, calc, impress
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I start LO first, then open something, the menu appears but there are no dropdown items in it ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can I install something to put the menu back in the LO app window?
<popey> brb
<popey> need to reboot
<bootinfdsds> Hawaii tsunami false alarm !
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer, do you have lo-menubar installed
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno popey - it's a default install. Hang on will check. (same monitor for this and her machine whilst I'm testing. need to switch inputs)
<TheOpenSourcerer> dependency issue. Can't install it because of libreoffice-gtk or something.
<TheOpenSourcerer> nm - it seems if you start calc first then run round the room naked three times singing "I'm a Nudy" the menu then works.
<AlanBell> correlation does not imply causation
<SuperEngineer> unless correlation is repeated by peer group.... volounteers anyone?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<popey> hmm
<popey> ali1234, how was it you did the maximise flash on a second screen thing?
<popey> and does it work with chrome?
<ali1234> popey: more information needed
<popey> you made something that lets you have flash maximised full screen on dual screen, and not de-maximise when you click on second screen iirc?
<ali1234> there is nothing in the code which allows you to select a monitor
<ali1234> the focus patch is not applied
<ali1234> i'm waiting for the athor to rebase but looks like he isn't going to
<ali1234> on chrome you can only use the primary monitor
<popey> in hotel room with browser on external display (TV) watching stuff, want to work on laptop with tv on
<ali1234> well if you can change the xorg config so that the tv is the primary monitor then it will work, if you apply the patch
<popey> ahh
<ali1234> also if you use firefox it will work, but again only if you apply the patch
<popey> gotcha
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/fullscreenhack/pull/5
<ali1234> in fact under chromium you won't be able to open the fullscreen flash on anything but the primary monitor, because that is how pepper api works
<ali1234> *chrome
<ali1234> you only need top copy in the XSelectInput function really, i guess
<ali1234> not sure what side efects this has
<Laney> 3g isn't fast enough here to downoad TTOI
 * Laney weeps
<Laney> while going through security is a bad time to discover your laptop failed to suspend and is burning hot
<popey> oops
<Laney> seems ok though
<stgraber> as long as your battery doesn't explode while at the security checkpoint, you're fine ;) (oh, and don't mention someone could get it to explode, they apparently don't like being told that ;))
<Laney> and apw is getting the same flight as me, so I can abuse him :-)
<Laney> ah we just got notice that the flight is delayed until 10500 (1 hour)
<Laney> 1500
<stgraber> oh, so we may end up landing around the same time then. Assuming Swiss doesn't screw up anything else (my initial flight was canceled), I should arrive around 18:00 in Copenhagen
<stgraber> (got an extra hop in Frankfurt, so there's still potential for failure there too...)
<Laney> 18:0 would be right if the duration stays the same
<Laney> really need to find some proper bandwidth
<stgraber> airport lounge?
<stgraber> (though the one I'm in at the moment had sucky internet, switched to 3G which is surprinsgly fast considering I'm in a pretty crowded airport)
<stgraber> anyway, boarding in 10min, better go check where my gate is. See you guys later
<popey> safe flights all!
<Laney> tata
<mattt> afternoon
<penguin42> hey mattt
<mattt> penguin42: how goes it ?
<penguin42> yeh ok
<SuperEngineer> Hmm... UDS = Ubuntu Drinking Session perhaps? ;)ï»¿
<Pendulum> that's fairly accurate
<SuperEngineer> I wonder if they've got as far as singing "wonderful, [hic] wonderful Copen[hic]hagon" yet?
<czajkowski> whoo Nexus 7 bought :D
<SuperEngineer> czajkowski: how much? I'm getting tempted
<penguin42> czajkowski: Hehe
<czajkowski> SuperEngineer: 168 at airport
<czajkowski> 2 guys overheard me buying one
<czajkowski> and then asked do you have more
<czajkowski> the guy goes we have 12
<czajkowski> two guys take 2 :D
<SuperEngineer> hpe one of ythose for me!
<SuperEngineer> *hope of of those was for me
<czajkowski> hah
<czajkowski> it;s 169 in shops but all the dixons close to me were sold out
<SuperEngineer> never found out at my local dixons... the [saturday] salesperson was confused "is that a radio sir?"
<SuperEngineer> hurumph
<czajkowski> oh the HMV person was like whats that
<czajkowski> I went if you dont know
<czajkowski> you dont have them
<SuperEngineer> correct
<penguin42> czajkowski: I wouldn't bet on that, probably not the smartest cookies
<penguin42> czajkowski: Well, compared to Dixons....
<SuperEngineer> best fun Iever had was going to PcWorld, finding a netbook running Linux & asking "will this run a Linux system?"...
<SuperEngineer> [I think you guess the answer]
<czajkowski> ah I dont like to torment people either
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<czajkowski> thats their job  no point i rubing salt in the wounds when they dont know stuff
<czajkowski> I'd rather show them something than ridicule them
<SuperEngineer> ..the poor guy was given a full explanation... been back since & the man now runs Ubuntu on his home PC!
<SuperEngineer> if I go there now & he's not in... I go back out again & wait for when he's back
<czajkowski> <-- flight
<ali1234> if your one job is to answer customer's questions about your products... and you fail at that... you deserve ridicule
<SuperEngineer> ...oe tuition - if the person is actually interested
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: i suspect their prime job is to talk & sell, knowledge is a gift not always required
 * SuperEngineer wishes czajkowski a good flight
<ali1234> effectively that's saying it's ok for them to lie to the customer because their are enough people who don't realise to keep them in business
<ali1234> and making up a BS answer when you clearly don't know is lying
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: if you were to add "can you" to those last 2 - methinks you wrote their job application form!!!
<SuperEngineer> & if anyone is wondering why I use PC World, not Maplins... I've never been clamped parking at PC World!
 * SuperEngineer spits at local Maplin car park
<penguin42> is that illegal for them now?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I hope so
<SuperEngineer> popey: convinced the hotel to put the bar bill down as "Tea & Cake" yet?
<penguin42> popey: Or disinfectant
<SuperEngineer> bbs - reboot time
<Pendulum> If the tv channel I'm watching is accurate, it seems that there are more American football fans in the UK who support the Patriots compared to the Rams.
<Darael> ...There are appreciable numbers of Merkian football fans in the UK? Who knew?
<Pendulum> I actually know quite a few (who were fans before I knew them)
<Pendulum> today's one of the NFL matches at Wembley
<Pendulum> I was guessing fans/ nationalities by who was singing God Save the Queen
<Pendulum> *fans'
<ali1234> what does it mean when /proc/self/cmdline starts with "/proc/self/exe"
<penguin42> ali1234: I think it means something reexec'd itself
<ali1234> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=29118
<penguin42> ali1234: If you look at /proc/self/exe it's always a symlink to the actual executable - so you can run it
<ali1234> yeah, that makes sense
<ali1234> but in this case i'm using chrome, trying to detect when my library is loaded by a plugin
<ali1234> so it looks like i need check for /proc/self/exe on command line, due to that bug
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, chrome does some funky stuff to sandbox parts of itself; so I think it'll set some stuff up and then rerun itself
<bigcalm_laptop> Good evening peeps :)
<christel> hihi bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> Hey hey christel :)
<SuperEngineer> Just seen a UDS post stating there's a Tuesday evening testing session... mispelling of "tasting"?
<SuperEngineer> ...or not mispelt & it's a session of drinking beer whilst repeating Roaring Ringtail 16 times perhaps
 * SuperEngineer removes hat of cynicism
<penguin42> it's the only universal language of irc
<jacobw> lol
 * kvarley is envious of czajkowski :P
<SuperEngineer> Just realised: even if Johnathan Ross uses Ubuntu, he will not use 13.04.
<SuperEngineer> What distro do use use John?... "woarwing wingtail".... nah!
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-21
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AndroCloud80> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> heyo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Apple Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> apple as in the fruit, or as in the tech company?
<mungbean_> or the record company
<mungbean_> when did the typical RAM usage go from ~2GB to 6GB?
<mungbean_> i used to happily run all my apps on 4gb machine
<mungbean_> i suppose when gmail and $other mail take 500MB you are screwed
<ali1234> JamesTait always knows what day it is :)
<Dave2> I had a banana
<mungbean_> i thought JamesTait was a bot for about a yar
<mungbean_> because he never spoke other than the happy$day
<JamesTait> None of the above. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Day
<JamesTait> mungbean_, are you sure I'm not now?
<mungbean_> mostly
<JamesTait> Dave2, I had a banana in my porridge this morning.
<mungbean_> anyone tried  banana baby porridge?
<mungbean_> its lovely
<TheOpenSourcerer> talking of Apples...
 * TheOpenSourcerer delivered 85Kg of the fruits to http://thegardencidercompany.co.uk/The_Garden_Cider_Company/Maintenance.html to help with their collection of 20tonnes per week! to make Cider
<SuperMatt> this is a good cause and you should be applauded for it
<JamesTait> Agreed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We get 1/2 of what they make :-)
<SuperMatt> \o/
<SuperMatt> that's a lot of cider
<SuperMatt> probably
<TheOpenSourcerer> ~ 20litres
<SuperMatt> good lord
<SuperMatt> thta's a spectacular amount of cider
<SuperMatt> a year's worth, maybe?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Huh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 20l? A year?
<SuperMatt> no, I'm wrong
<SuperMatt> probably a good few months though
<TheOpenSourcerer> uh?
<SuperMatt> how much do you drink?!?!
<JamesTait> 40 pints a day. ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My GP recommends 21 units a day ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> And you can roll-over
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<SuperMatt> I... don't believe you
<JamesTait> In case anyone is interested, I haz OggCamp photos: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=oggcamp13
<BigRedS> 21 units in a day makes you roll over?
<SuperMatt> it would certainly make me fall to the floor
<mungbean_> are there recordings of talks @ oggcamp?
<popey> some, yes
<popey> main stage was recorded, well some of them
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: What don't you believe?
<SuperMatt> that your doctor suggests 21 unites a day
<BigRedS> Hm. Ubuntu Gnome doesn't appear to have a one-package-that-everything-depends-upon thingy with which to remove it all...
<mungbean_> what was freaky clown's bank talk about?
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's in the pub, my local, *every* day. So why not?
<popey> mungbean_: dunno, i didnt go to it
<BigRedS> this is a decidedly more buggy Saucy than my laptop, but that's probaly because I broke it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> Morning! How's things?
<Laney> aww, spotify broke again
<Laney> hmm, maybe it didn't!
<bashrc> upgraded to 13.10 at the weekend
<bashrc> now the shading effects in flightgear work!
<brobostigon> BigRedS: somewhat concerned about my kate, she has gone into a low eb in her bipolar. and you?
<JamesTait> mungbean_, I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you. :-P
<andrewebdev> What packages are included in build-essentials?
<JamesTait> mungbean_, there were lots of anecdotes of security failures he'd experienced in his work as an ethical hacker, and a demo of someone's NFC travel card being read by a mobile phone.
<andrewebdev> or how can I find out?
<JamesTait> andrewebdev, apt-cache show build-essential
<andrewebdev> awesome! thx
<JamesTait> andrewebdev, apt-cache show build-essential | grep ^Depends:
<JamesTait> andrewebdev, the second one will save you having to comb though the full output. :)
<andrewebdev> yup noticed and used that one first
<andrewebdev> thx that helps
<awilkins> My main bug in Saucy so far is keyboard locale
<popey> on a mac?
<awilkins> PC
<awilkins> Keep flipping to yankland, not sure what the conditions are yet
<awilkins> Switching out to a terminal and back to X via ctrl-alt-F[17] cures it
<awilkins> But it can be a real PITA because I habitually use symbols in passwords
<awilkins> As far as everything else goes, I've virtually noticed no change except some nice updates to features in apps like Pasaffe
<awilkins> Shutdowns seem a bit snappier
<popey> yeah, i had it flip kb layouts the other day
<BigRedS> Argh. I've completely broken my PC :/
<BigRedS> assuming 13.10 is more compatible with EFI than is/was 13.04, is there some voodoo I can do do update the live USB stick I'm running so it'll try installing that?
<BigRedS> ls
<penguin42> BigRedS: Sorry, don't understand your question
<BigRedS> I've got a live USB running 13.04 which has just failed to install
<penguin42> ok
<BigRedS> since I've nothing else knocking around I'm wondering if I can boot off that and then make it a 13.10 USB
<penguin42> oh and you've not got another USB disk?
<BigRedS> no
<penguin42> hmm
<BigRedS> Argh. I'm getting really bored of the instaler's insistence upon my having a swap partition :/
<penguin42> BigRedS: How much RAM do you have?
<BigRedS> 16G
<Svetlana> :o
<penguin42> BigRedS: Hang, on - let me try something
<penguin42> BigRedS: How big is your USB stick?
<BigRedS> er, same
<BigRedS> I was just pondering partitioning it
<BigRedS> The actual problem I'm trying to solve is Grub refusing to install, thinking about it. 13.04 is fine, really, 13.10 is just a guess at something more likely to work
<penguin42> BigRedS: The problem is since it's the only thing you're running off you have precisely one chance
<penguin42> BigRedS: Oh right, so what's the grub problem you're seeing
<BigRedS> I got to the end of the installation and got an error message whose precise wording I can't recall
<BigRedS> Grub couldn't write to /boot though
<penguin42> BigRedS: There should be a log in /var/log/installer
<BigRedS> but the installer couldn't cope with re-running with cryptswap so I've already blown away the partitions again
<penguin42> ok, so I'd do a fresh clean install, and if grub fails then figure out why - how are you partitioning it?
<BigRedS> all in one partition, it's a PC
<penguin42> BigRedS: How big a disk? Are you EFI booting? And you said cryptswap so what's the real answer to how are you partitioning?
<BigRedS> yeah, EFI
<BigRedS> I took the defaults with an encrypted home earlier
<BigRedS> since it looks like I'll be doing this more than once I'm going for as simple as possible now
<BigRedS> so there's still the cryptswap knocking around
<BigRedS> I'll play for a bit and if it doesn't work I'll reboot into something cleaner :) I've a couple of thoughts
<penguin42> I think EFI (if booting in EFI mode) needs a special partition
<penguin42> vfat bios partition
<BigRedS> which the installer can do all by itself?
<BigRedS> yeah, that rings a bell
<BigRedS> oh, but if I'm doing it manually I wont do that
<BigRedS> argh. I'll just reboot.
<penguin42> yeh so lets just take a standard default install and let it set it up
<BigRedS> yeah, I hoped re-running it would Just Work :)
<mungbean_> JamesTait: you can read a travel card with a mobile,i've done it before,  but its not particularly interesting
<mungbean_> you could wrap it in tin foil wallet i suppose
<JamesTait> mungbean_, he acctually asked for a contactless credit/debit card, but Mark only had his contactless travel card in his wallet, and freakyclown thought it would be interesting to see what it came up with.
<BigRedS> I used my contactless credit card the other day, was a bit weird
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> davmor2, o/
<mungbean_> i think it stores a few journeys
<mungbean_> i always try to see what the inspectors can see on their handheld devices
<BigRedS> penguin42: there's not a lot in these installers: http://avi.co/brokeninstaller.txt
<BigRedS> The error message is "The 'grub-efi' package failed to install into /target/. Without the GRUB boot loader, the installed system will not boot"
<penguin42> BigRedS: ok, so it is grub-efi - is this the default parttioning that you're doing?
<BigRedS> yeah
<penguin42> BigRedS: OK, and is that the /var/log/installer on your ramfs or on the /target hard drive?
<BigRedS> ah, ramfs
<BigRedS> there doesn't appear to be one in /target/var/log
<penguin42> oh
<penguin42> BigRedS: What other partitions has it made, and how has it mounted them?
<BigRedS> partitions: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6275823/
<BigRedS> /proc/mounts: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6275826/
 * penguin42 looks
<BigRedS> urk. I clicked OK on that error and now /target's not mounted
<BigRedS> and if I mount it and then ls I see an empty dir :/
<penguin42> BigRedS: Well those mounts look ok, it's mounted the boot part in /target/efi/boot
<penguin42> BigRedS: If you mount your sda2?
<BigRedS> d'oh
<BigRedS> no, sda1
<BigRedS> hah, yeh, sda2's fine
<penguin42> BigRedS: I guess I'd try mounting the sda1 in the right place as well, chroot into the /target, mount /proc and /sys and then see what happens if you do an update-grub ?
<BigRedS> oh, just found this in syslog: The following packages have unmet dependencies. \ grub-efi : Depends: grub-efi-amd64 (= 2.00-14ubuntu1)\ : Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<penguin42> ?!
<penguin42> is there something earlier - I mean the only way that should happen is if an earlier package failed to install for some reason, e.g. a duff image or the like?
<BigRedS> doesn't look it; I'll try the chroot and see if I can get to a working system, then have a look at the logs in luxury :)
<penguin42> BigRedS: Yeh, so in the chroot try and apt-get your grub-efi-amd64
<penguin42> BigRedS: Did you tick the 'download updates during install' ?
<BigRedS> yeah
<penguin42> I suggest not doing
<penguin42> BigRedS: Either one of the updates is broken or it's having a problem downloading one for some reason
<penguin42> <breakfast>
<BigRedS> Hm. Can install the packages in teh chroot, but it still complains it cannot write to /boot/grub
<bigcalm> The Hudl I ordered for Hayley as a wedding present has arrived! Do I wrap it as is and give it to her on the day after, or do I crack it open and charge it up before doing so?
<popey> yes
<Laney> no
<popey> Twelvety!
<popey> (I wouldnt)
<mungbean_> nope
<mungbean_> breaking the seal is the most fun
 * bigcalm wraps it as is
<mungbean_> it goes downhill from there
<bigcalm> I just want my own tablet back :P
<mungbean_> my touchpad has seen better days
<mungbean_> mainly from pulling it apart twice, the case is a bit mangled
<mungbean_> and the screen sits a bit proud and bouncy
<mungbean_> do foreign (US) programmes need the product placement symbol as well as UK progs? you would think so
<penguin42> BigRedS: Well, try writing to /boot/grub - try just putting a dummy file in
<mungbean_> somebody was dialling a number on touch tone that sounded like quantum leap. now i have QL stuck in my head
<mungbean_> doo doo do doo, do do do do doo
<BigRedS> penguin42: I got bored and just rebooted in BIOS mode...
<penguin42> BigRedS: Yes, what model/make/victim of machine?
<BigRedS> Intel Nuc
<penguin42> huh about as much of a reference machine as you're going to find
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> I recall some acrobatics on initial install
<BigRedS> And we've had another couple with weirdly inconsistent experiences
<awilkins> Do you think Scott Bakula has the theme from Quantum Leap as his ringtone?
<mungbean_> was he is some star trek stuff too
<penguin42> yeh ST Enterprise
<mungbean_> AKA that soap opera my wife watches
<popey> i liked Star Trek Enterprise
<penguin42> popey: Nod, especially the earlier episodes - everything was made to feel nicely cobbled together and still quite touchy
<brobostigon> i like the enterprise ep with arik soong, noonien soong's great-grandfather.
 * penguin42 hasn't seen that
<brobostigon> it was three ep's infact,
<brobostigon> same story arc.
<penguin42> it's a while since I've seen Enterprise
<brobostigon> i didnt like the series a whole. only a few ep's took my fancy.
<penguin42> I didn't like the later stuff with the temporal war
<penguin42> gave up on it at that point
<brobostigon> agreed.
<mungbean_> my nephew is about to get his black belt at judo. any gift ideas?
<penguin42> I don't know, but if you get it wrong it could be painful
<mungbean_> a 50p judo coin :P
<davmor2> I think I might have too many ppas installed on this box 20 minutes for an apt-get update on a 60Mb connection is a long time right :D
<mungbean_> the owncloud opensuse one takes forever
<mungbean_> annoyed about google moving the news and calendar to the little grid thing
<mungbean_> used to be 1 click to news
<penguin42> mungbean_: Yeh and it's inconsistent, there is the whole list of things vertically down the side of my g+ stuff, but some things are there and some things are in the grid, I guess the old scheme didn't work for touch devices, so the grid kind of makes sense, but I don't see the point of having two schemes like at the moment
<BigRedS> Google stuff does generally seem to be getting worse in terms of UI/UX
 * BigRedS is finally up on a working Saucy machine, with the right desktop wallpaper! :)
<BigRedS> (the wallpaper's the only reason I tried the upgrade this morning, and then the only reason I tried to remove Gnome 3)
<Aivaras> phablet-flash don't work. unable to download file
<BigRedS> That at least sounds like a simple problem :) Does the error message elaborate at all?
<Aivaras> 404
<Aivaras> Errno 2 - to be precise, but really it's 404. :D
<BigRedS> haha, I'd guess error 2 is the app's one for a http failure
<BigRedS> does it say the URL? I've never really used phablet-flash since I don't have any supported devices :)
<Aivaras> But file seams to exist :D
<Aivaras> downloading it manually.
<BigRedS> oh, you can download it elsewhere?
<popey> #ubuntu-touch is the best place for this conversation
<mungbean_> " is currently unsubscribed from Dell email marketing. Your unsubscribe request was received on 31/08/2012.You may continue to receive emails pertaining to your Dell account."
<Aivaras> well, it gives url and location where it should download. :D
<mungbean_> so i unsubscribed months ago but still receive dell spam?
<Aivaras> BigRedS, seams to be working. :)
<BigRedS> mungbean_: yeah, you'll still receive mail that they can pass off as being about genuine orders
<BigRedS> Aivaras: yeah, then I'd check out #ubuntu-touch and see if there's some known confusion in the client
<BigRedS> At least it's (probably) not a server-side issue, so it's probably fixable in teh client
<mungbean_> torvalds is posting photos from loch lomond
<BigRedS> oh, there's a linux conf up in Scotland isn't there?
<mungbean_> rude of him not to go bit further south to the oggcamp
<mungbean_> :D
<BigRedS> haha
<mungbean_> i just looked through a whole 128 photos of oggcamp portraits and realised they are rfom 2012
<mungbean_> i blame MartijnVdS for +1 it
<mungbean_> :D
<BigRedS> hahaha
<mungbean_> http://www.googlestore.com/Google+Redesign/Fun/Android+Ice+Cube+Trays.axd
<mungbean_> you could put resin or plaster in these and paint little android figures
<BigRedS> that's a wintereenmass present for my token iOS fan sorted
<mungbean_> how can i find when my MOT expires?
<penguin42> look at your certificate?
<mungbean_> yeah, seems to boil down to that
<mungbean_> i had a baby this year, my house is a mess
<penguin42> oh, it's probably been eaten then - ask the place you got it done?
<mungbean_> :(
<mungbean_> Youâll need the vehicle registration mark and either:
<mungbean_> the MOT test number (you can get this from the VT20 test certificate or the VT30 refusal certificate)
<mungbean_> the document reference number from the V5C registration certificate (logbook) if you donât have the MOT test number
<mungbean_> great
<mungbean_> looks like i'm digging tonight
<mungbean_> needle in a cornfield
<penguin42> your needles are in cornfields? Ours are in haystacks
<diplo> mungbean_: First thing I do when it passes is add to my google calendar to alert for next year ( Pro  tip! ) :)
<diplo> Missed 2 for 2 years so never going to happen again
<mungbean_> i have an entry for 31 oct
<mungbean_> but unsure if thats an old entry or not
<diplo> hah, defo worth adding reg and document details :)
<mungbean_> lol
<mungbean_> i hate this time of year
<mungbean_> insurance and MOT and serviec
<diplo> Mines the first quarter, nad yeah sucks
<mungbean_> money for old rope
<mungbean_> Â£149 MOT+service
<BigRedS> if you know where you last MOTed it they can normally tell you when it's next due
<mungbean_> yeah i found a letter they sent me, no date on it, but the 31 oct seems to tally up with it
<mungbean_> got quoted Â£250 to fix 3 tiles on my roof
<mungbean_> not happy
<penguin42> get another quote?
<mungbean_> i will, trying to find another company is hard
<penguin42> no local roofers?
<mungbean_> none that want to give business
<mungbean_> similar situation to getting a new back fence
<mungbean_> nobody wants to give you business
<penguin42> we tend to use a local builder for small stuff - he's about 65+
<mungbean_> yeah i need someone lik that
<mungbean_> checkatrade is lame for north london
<penguin42> don't you just speed to other people or watch for people up ladders?
<diplo> mungbean_: not fancy doing the tiles yourself ? Changed a few in the past very simple
<mungbean_> its a very old roof
<mungbean_> i fear a frank spencer moment
<mungbean_> BETTYYYY
<davmor2> czajkowski: Oi 38 pictures of a dog 38 that's excessive even for you ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: 18 new ones
<davmor2> czajkowski: Stop just stop honest ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: but he's so cute!
<BigRedS> mungbean_: I might know somebody who's up for doing that; my dad does electrical contracting around North London and much as he's a bit vertigous he probably knows a tiler
<BigRedS> or roofer. Tilers work in bathrooms don't they?
<davmor2> No he is a pug :P
<czajkowski> and for context
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102921374554385564572/albums/5936916689358037521
<mungbean_> BigRedS: found 1 guy on checkatrade. if no response or Â£Â£Â£Â£ then i'll ping u :D
<mungbean_> i went up the weymouth glass tower thing last week. i get a bit funny with heights in the last few years
<BigRedS> mungbean_: ahh, cool
<mungbean_> wasn't too bad actually
<penguin42> czajkowski: Do you have a zsh as well?
<czajkowski> nope tcsh :)
<BigRedS> there's a glass tower in weymouth?
<mungbean_> http://www.sealifeweymouth.com/explore/weymouth-tower.aspx
<mungbean_> its a big glass doughnut on a pole
<BigRedS> czajkowski: and you mock me for mutt?
<BigRedS> Oh right, that wasn't there last time I was in weymouth
<penguin42> mungbean_: Seems to be missing a zip line or ...
<BigRedS> hang on, is that doughnut pulled up and down the pole?
<BigRedS> that's mad
<mungbean_> i didn't consider how its done.
<mungbean_> was very smooth
<BigRedS> but, yeah, it goes up and down? you don't just go up a lift inthe middle or something?
<mungbean_> no you climb into the glass dougnut
<mungbean_> and it goes to teh top and rotates
<mungbean_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo0H9NJsxXI
<mungbean_> turn the sound off, some whingeing taff banging on
<BigRedS> Ah, I've no audio anyway
<czajkowski> davmor2: removed the duplicate photos :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: hehe
<BigRedS> Oh right, so it's just a circular bench? That's much more weymouthy than it initially looked :)
<mungbean_> lol
<mungbean_> the ticket is "free" if you have been to the sealife centre
<mungbean_> which we got with tesco vouchers
<mungbean_> so a great deal
<bashrc> I should probably start using mutt
<mungbean_> alpine > mutt, isn't it?
<bashrc> is it better?
<bashrc> my email clients are hopelessly graphical
<penguin42> mutt's pretty good simple/fast - I tend not to use the standard config
<BigRedS> I just switched back to a graphical client from mutt
<BigRedS> and, actually, it's not taken down my system through using all of its resources
<BigRedS> it can't do IMAP properly but neither can imapsync or mutt or, seemingly, anything other than Mulberry
<penguin42> you can load a few thousand message folders quickly on Mutt, but yeh it's not pretty - finding a nice config makes a big difference as well
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I spent a good while getting Mutt working and then realised that the whole reason I did that was because I couldn't work out how to make Thunderbird not run away with four of my CPUs and half my ram
<BigRedS> so I spent about five minutes on that and now I also have calendars and tasks in it and I actually see starred emails
<mungbean_> turn off download of messages
<mungbean_> and offline sync
<mungbean_> then tb is awesome
<BigRedS> yeah, basicallyt
 * penguin42 did take his system out the other day by accidentally trying to load a 400MB procmail.log file into mutt - it tried to parse the 2.5M mail headers
<mungbean_> i have 5GB of mail and a million messages
<BigRedS> well, it still thinks I want all the headers stored and indexed, and that a 'quick search' means every folder on every account, but it's getting closer to not being stupid
<mungbean_> i disable global search
<mungbean_> hence no indexing
<BigRedS> why are all the stupid ideas set to on by default?
<mungbean_> you can still quickly search a folder
<mungbean_> developers have SSD and i7?
<BigRedS> so do I!
<mungbean_> they want to show off features?
<BigRedS> thunderbird at 200% CPU isn't a feature :)
<mungbean_> mine isn't even registereing on the top scale
<BigRedS> that was the nice thing about offlineimap - I could nice and ionice it in the cronjob so I never noticed it running
<shauno> oh that's intentional, to make sure it's fitting with the rest of the mozilla family
<BigRedS> yeah, that's 'cause you turned off the stupid, probably
<mungbean_> i did
<BigRedS> shauno: integreted memtest :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I think stupid is a thing that should need *enabling*; it should be opt-in
<mungbean_> depends
<BigRedS> no it doesn't. If it's stupid it should be off by default.
<mungbean_> define stupid
<BigRedS> Things that annoy me
<mungbean_> yeah
<BigRedS> :)
<diddledan> BigRedS: the problem is things that annoy you may not annoy someone else
<mungbean_> o365 in a browser > 500MB
<BigRedS> diddledan: most of them annoy at least one other person
<mungbean_> imap in TB = 200MB
<diddledan> so you end up turning everything off because someone somewhere might not like it. so then you have zero functionality
<BigRedS> I am being a bit facetious; I'm not genuinely demanding that everything be bent to my will
<mungbean_> i know :P
<mungbean_> i would agree but if i was a dev i'd want the bits on display
<BigRedS> but the point of IMAP is that you don't download all the mail, for example
<BigRedS> if I wanted that I'd use POP3
<mungbean_> imap has a compress function but i don't think o365 supports it
<mungbean_> btw i gave up reddit a few weeks ago and still holding firm
<BigRedS> I still ended up downloading headers from 2001 this morning when I configured Tbird. However much you compress it, that's not ideal
<mungbean_> i was a bit addicted
<BigRedS> yeah, I've stopped pining it in firefox and watched my productivity skyrocket
<mungbean_> it was whenever there was a lull in conversation or i was on the toilet etc
<mungbean_> or waiting 60 seconds for kettle to boil
<mungbean_> but if you stop commenting on stuff then you stop going back
<mungbean_> i deleted a load of old comments
<BigRedS> yeah, I tend to go a few days without it and then get into a bunch of conversations in the space of about a lunch break and that's it for the rest of the week
<BigRedS> the problem is that that's normally Monday's lunch break...
<mungbean_> i don't think i'ev missed anything
<mungbean_> i scan g+ and news very briefly
<mungbean_> i heard 8.1 and 13.10 were out;)
<mungbean_> something about a US shutdown but i didn't care
<BigRedS> I got into *another* argument with an Atheist last week; those are always time sinks...
<mungbean_> what abot?
<mungbean_> usual stuff
<BigRedS> but, yeah, most of my activity is in militaryporn, mapporn and sysadmin so I don't miss much by not being there
<BigRedS> yeah, God
<shauno> the shutdown was a bit sad-face.  8 years of uptime is a sad thing to waste
<BigRedS> haha
<mungbean_> i let God deal with atheists instead of joining in. most who want to discuss it are trolls ;)
<mgdm> I only have a reddit account to dispose of /r/atheism; while I nominally am one, FFS those muppets should give it a rest
<mungbean_> i dispose(d) of nearly every default sub
<mungbean_> i've said stuff in ubuntu before and BigRedS has replied
<mungbean_> and i lol silently
<BigRedS> I'm in /r/Ubuntu?
<mungbean_> because i have a different username
<mungbean_> maybe linux relted sub then
<directhex> mgdm, agreed
<directhex> i signed up when /r/atheism became a default, to remove it from view
<BigRedS> Most of the default subs are stereotypical angry redditors arent' they? There's a worldnews and politics IIRC
<mungbean_> childish and excitable children
<mungbean_> first time they've discovered things
<mungbean_> its like freshers week every day on default subs
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> Hm. Apparently I've made 2 comments in /r/ubuntu, but I can't work out how to find them :)
<mungbean_> might not have been ubuntu
<BigRedS> Well, I have 2 karma, so I might have just said a lot of disagreeable things
<mungbean_> i was in sysadmin, linux sysadmin, ubuntu , linux , etc ,etc
<mungbean_> britishproblems...
<BigRedS> ah right, I'll stop trying to out you :)
<BigRedS> oh! Yeah britishproblems is most of my time
<mungbean_> i stopped reading that after it got boring
<mungbean_> tea, biscuits, dailymail hate
<diddledan> I've never read reddit
<shauno> yeah, the DM whining got old quickly
<diddledan> excepting when I've been linked to a specifc article
<BigRedS> yeah, every so often it gets interesting for a bit. RedLion has replaced britishproblems for the general-british-off-topic that I wanted from britishproblems
<mungbean_> imagine you're a teenager and suddenly you discover you can ask questions anonymously "how do i kiss a girl" etc
<mungbean_> replicate times a few million
<mungbean_> somewhere under the surface are some good replacements for forums, if you only care about latest stuff
<mungbean_> i realised i could delete my old comment history without problem because nobody ever reads stuff older than a few weks
<mgdm> reddit reminds me a bit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> but you can filter a lot of that out, so long as you're not interested in the same thing as all the freshers
<BigRedS> so if you want political news or anything remotely mainstream in tech you're out of luck
<mungbean_> red lion is cliquey
<mungbean_> and dull
<mungbean_> with some weird regulars
<BigRedS> dull is good!
<mgdm> I like /r/DIY
<mungbean_> uk should be good, but has too much news
<BigRedS> yeah, it keeps getting either political or religious
<BigRedS> london has phases of good
<mungbean_> eternal september is a good description mgdm
<mungbean_> slashdot had insightful comments once, i'm sure
<mungbean_> now it's really died.
<BigRedS> +1 Insighful
<mungbean_> even the memes stopped (i hope)
<mungbean_> vmware 5.5 anyotne tried?
<penguin42> (Anyone seeing intermittent timeouts on G+ talk?)
<gordonjcp> mungbean_: I gave up on slashdot when they did that stupid ROT13 april fool
<mungbean_> remember digg?
<mungbean_> that coincided with ubuntu being fun (compiz, cube, beryl, etc)
<mungbean_> omgubuntu might never get off teh ground today
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, all the time
<popey> ubuntu is way more fun now IMO
<popey> with phone â»
<mungbean_> i lolled when i saw omg on the bookmarks toolbar of a screenshot of some teenage hackie kiddie
<BigRedS> penguin42: (using XMPP)
<BigRedS> mungbean_: was that the ESA one the other day?
<mungbean_> some syrian thing
<BigRedS> yeah, Electronic Syrian Army
<mungbean_> yeah
<mungbean_> and bing ?
<mungbean_> 4 of the icons on unity were browsers
<penguin42> BigRedS: Hmm this is on their web interface that normally works
<BigRedS> penguin42: ooh. I never use that, but maybe I'll stop assuming they've broken XMPP to make me use Hangouts
<BigRedS> mungbean_: was it unity? I thought I saw a Fedora logo
 * mungbean_ checks
<mungbean_> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kB27dSQyw4U/UmIt6YTrycI/AAAAAAAAYLU/3pq6h8no868/s1600/Qatar+Domain+Registrar+hacked.png
<mungbean_> i was looking on my phone on the bog
<penguin42> mungbean_: Qatar hacking? Sounds like they need some menthol
<mungbean_> looks hideous
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I always thought that when releaseing screenshots like this they'd arrange things to look as leet as possible
<BigRedS> switch to some mental window manager their mate only half-finished writing
<BigRedS> that looks like something my mum would give me to sort out her email on
<mungbean_> this was also in their bookmarks http://www.zone-h.org/archive/notifier=The%20Pro
<BigRedS> Haha, I was just wondering what zone-h.org was
<penguin42> topgear.com/india is an important site?
<mungbean_> TG is one of biggest progs in teh world
<mungbean_> sorry i mean .......in the world
<BigRedS> Ohhh, I remember zoneh
<BigRedS> haha
<mungbean_> i'm more concerned that little timmy is up past his bedtime
<mungbean_> its 12;37
<mungbean_> 12:19
<BigRedS> marines.com is in the UK?
<mungbean_> also, google 20130106091517
<mungbean_> which is the build number in teh image
<BigRedS> I get whostalking.com and zsmall.cn
<mungbean_> ah its a wordpress nightly build
<BigRedS> oh right
<mungbean_> people have been banging on about a recent windows virus that encrpyts files on the network shares
<mungbean_> cryptlocker virus or summat
<BigRedS> oh yeah, I heard about that
<mungbean_> had it here
<BigRedS> sounds crafty, though I'm surprised it hadn't happened before
<mungbean_> although couldn't get sensible info
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: I'm pretty sure it has, but this one is particularly widespread
<mungbean_> like what OS patching levels are required
<gordonjcp> and it asks for payments in bitcoins so ZOMG UNTRACEABLE BLACK ECONOMY!
<mungbean_> virustotal reports most AV as detecting it
<BigRedS> mungbean_: my understanding is that nobody's very sure, and lots of things that find it break the decrupt functionality after the encryption's happened
<mungbean_> but the broadcast message from IT was arrrggh everybody panic, cannot detect or remove
<mungbean_> also its not really a virus but a trojan they have to click on inside a zip
<awilkins> If I had to pay for ransomware, I'd want to use Bitcoin, tbh
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: proof, as if any were needed, that bitcoin should be banned
<awilkins> Cuts both ways - the nefarious chaps can't drain your accounts
<mungbean_> people should make chocolate the new currency
<mungbean_> see who calls for a ban then
<BigRedS> I'd never have any money :(
<mungbean_> minstrels would be hard currency
<penguin42> mungbean_: well a hard outer shell...
<penguin42> mungbean_: How many g of 72% dark equadorian per kloc?
<mungbean_> i have Â£28.45 in my amazon gift voucher accoutn atm \o/
<penguin42> and what are you spending it on?
<bigcalm> I know somebody with a wedding coming up that you could donate that to :P
<diddledan> mungbean_: who are you buying prezzies for? (there's plenty of deserving me in this channel for e.g.)
<mungbean_> i'm saving it
<mungbean_> not sure what for yet
<mungbean_> prob spend in dribs and drabs
 * bigcalm just had a pre-wedding cupcake nom nom nom
<diddledan> mp3?
<diddledan> bigcalm: is it this saturdsday?
<bigcalm> diddledan: it's this Friday
<diddledan> close
<bigcalm> :)
<diddledan> coolbeans
<mungbean_> my anniversary in 29th oct
<diddledan> good luck :-)
<bigcalm> diddledan: thank you :)
<mungbean_> extra hour in bed soon
<diddledan> mungbean_: you tease
<diddledan> bed is awesome, so an extra hour is ay-maze-zing
<mungbean_> type bst uk into google
<mungbean_> massive result
<mungbean_> and ends on
<mungbean_> Sunday, October 27
<mungbean_> wooo
<diddledan> \o/
<bigcalm> Last Sunday in March, last Sunday in October. Easy enough to remember :)
<mungbean_> vmware seem to produce youtube videos of a lady reading web pages to you
<mungbean_> e.g. http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=2052334
<mungbean_> i would prefer patrick stewart doing it or brian blessed
<diddledan> brian blessed would put some crazy-cool emphases
<penguin42> or Majel Barrett (sp)
<diddledan> mungbean_: that's nuts (reading the web page in a video)
<mungbean_> needs a x2 button
<diddledan> they even included the minimum requirements in sections where the lady says "the minimum server requirements for x" followed immediately by the next sysreqs where she says virtually the same again
<diddledan> that really is a crud video
<mungbean_> its teh second vid i've watched
<mungbean_> i mean i left it playing, hoping something might sink in while i browse the ibm site
<mungbean_> feeling mysteriously sleepy
<mungbean_> "come work for vmware" they said.
<mungbean_> end up reading webpages to a microphone all day
<mungbean_> at least you can work from home
<penguin42> they can replace you with a small script
<penguin42> bizarre, google docs if you right click and select paste on the menu, it brings up a little dialog telling you that you can't paste like that but you can use ctrl-v
<directhex> penguin42, i get that in RT
<penguin42> RT?
<penguin42> it's so much of a 'please don't press this button again'
<awilkins> It's a Mozilla thing
<awilkins> They locked off access to the clipboard from Javascript / API
 * penguin42 wonders if it's a protection thing to stop sites knicking your paste
<awilkins> I already have users complaining about it because we changed the internal browser in one of their apps from IE to Xulrunner because, well, IE.
<awilkins> Never mind that the only reason they get the message is because they have super-awesome new features like a TinyMCE based editor when they were stuck in plaintext world before.
<penguin42> nod, is it changeable via a config thing?
<awilkins> Nooooo, "WANT PAST ON MENU WAAAAH"
<awilkins> Yeah, I'd really like to know, heard rumours of it being settable in the chrome JS
<awilkins> But not found a definitive answer yet
<shauno> oh this is wonderful.  IT's ticketing system has decided my email address is invalid because it has an apostrophe in it.  the email address they gave me.  and now I can't figure out how to do anything about it, because .. it needs to go via this ticketing system
<awilkins> I similarly hate systems that decided that + was an illegal email address character, whether that's just because they are stupid, or actively evil
<shauno> it's an irish company :/  you'd think o'error would be spotted
<awilkins> your.email+spam.detection.suffix@example.com should work everywhere and allow you to work out who is a mail sharing swine.
<penguin42> shauno: Oh yeh had that with a few companies
<shauno> I wouldn't be so annoyed, but it was them that put it there.  I never write the apostrophe.  they 'corrected' my spelling into a version that breaks one third of their own systems
<ali1234> wait apostrophe is allowed in emails?
<shauno> it's rfc-compliant, yes.  just less real-world compliant
<awilkins> Especially "hey, I don't need to be especially rigorous about my email pattern checking" world.
<shauno> !#$%&'*+-/=?^_`{|}~  are all valid in the local part
<lubotu3> shauno: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ali1234> quoting/escaping is such a pain
<penguin42> thing is it's certainly a surprise to most people that ' is legal
<penguin42> shauno: That's a good address to register with things on
<shauno> I wouldn't complain if it wasn't.  but I will complain that my employer actively corrected my spelling to include it, and then doesn't handle it themselves
<penguin42> haha
<mgdm> the list of things theoretically valid in the local part is basicaly the same as the list of printable ASCII chars
<mgdm> in practice, though, it's less :)
<penguin42> shauno: Heck why are a lot of those in there? I mean ! is bang path, + for the extension, but the rest?
<shauno> there's a few more that should be legal but need to be escaped, which doesn't seem sane to me.
<penguin42> and I assume you can't arbitrarily put ! in addresses
<BigRedS> ali1234: comments are allowed in the local part IIRC
<shauno> all manner of sins are rfc-compliant.  " "@example.com should be.  in theory.
 * penguin42 wonders how to add that alias to his aliases file
<MartijnVdS> just add a backslash :P
<diddledan> why does winter/autumn have to be so hot?
<diddledan> (indoors)
<diddledan> I put a super thick jumper on to go outside and then wilt in the heat when I'm back indoors
<BigRedS> diddledan: I blame women generally
<BigRedS> It's a phenomenon that seems fairly female - as the temperature outside drops, the ideal temperature indoors *rises*
<diddledan> lol
<BigRedS> I did once graph the temperature and demonstrate that, indoors, it rose through October and plateaued until about February.
<shauno> I guess I'm female then, because I'm guilty of that too
<shauno> I'm almost always warmer in winter than summer, because I don't tend to refill the heating oil during the summer
<diddledan> shauno: I knew there was a reason I found you so attractive
<shauno> diddledan: :(  not tonight man, I've already broken my head trying to grok slavic word endings
<diddledan> ywouch
<diddledan> yeouch*
<shauno> I still can't actually explain to someone why we have "you have" vs "he has".  so mÃ¡, mÃ¡m, mÃ¡Å¡, mÃ¡me, mÃ¡te, majÃº is making my brain turn upside down
<shauno> suffice to say slavic lolcats have a good excuse for messing them up
<diddledan> really english stands completely isolated from the rest of the european languages in that regard
<shauno> english is interesting because grammar is almost entirely optional.  highly recommended, but you can just throw enough words together and be understood if needed
<diddledan> when you get into rusky and the other asian languages then all bets are off
<diddledan> you need a communications officer like hoshi sato. or a UT
<shauno> eg, "I has" sounds wrong, but is still understood.  but mÃ¡m vs mÃ¡Å¡ is "I have" vs "you have", so getting it wrong changes the actual meaning
<shauno> I need memory implants :(
<diddledan> I'm assuming mÃ¡ is to have and Ã¡m is I so they get concatonated?
<diddledan> or is it even weirderer?
<shauno> mÃ¡ is 'he has'.  I is ja.  how they combine, I have no idea.  I still haven't found a pattern
<diddledan> ok. I see your issue
<shauno> tl;dr; not tonight dear, I have a headache
<diddledan> :-)
<mungbean_> BigRedS: you just reminded me i didn't switch my slug on after the power cut
<mungbean_> it does my energy monitoring
<mungbean_> http://i.imgur.com/752hK7O.png
<diddledan> hmm, I have a requirement to run either vmware esxi or hyper-v server. The problem is I need to run it inside a KVM and it appears KVM doesn't support nested virtualisation fully yet
<dwatkins> in-vm-ception?
<diddledan> something like that, yeah
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<diddledan> oh maybe I missed that step last time I tried - there's a kernel-module option that can be assigned to the kvm_intel module
<diddledan> Nested=Yes
<diddledan> https://github.com/kashyapc/nvmx-haswell/blob/master/SETUP-nVMX.rst
<diddledan> very fedora-centric but helps
<Daviey> diddledan: no, nested has been enabled by default since 12.04
<Daviey> diddledan: That is kvm inside kvm.  I would be quite surprised if using vmware or hyper-v inside kvm plays well
<diddledan> I've just been informed about https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bbm
<diddledan> it blew my mind
<brobostigon> yep , they finally released it. and i have no one who i know had a blackberry.
<brobostigon> has*
<shauno> for ios too.  and yeah, epic timing.  just as there's finally no use for it
<brobostigon> jabber/xmpp did it all th time, end to end, encrypted messaging.
<brobostigon> the shining, itv4, great film.
<shauno> watching last night's Walking Dead.  jury's still out.  (not sure I get itv4 though)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-22
<Myrtti> gooooooooood MORNING UK
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> trying to set up a new computer and I can't decide what I should do with this
<Myrtti> I suppose the first step would be to encrypt the home dir
<Myrtti> and change the username
<Myrtti> or change the username
<Myrtti> and then encrypt it, rather
<shauno> I'd recommend coffee, personally
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bacon
<Myrtti> oh I've been up until six
<Myrtti> been to a conference call too
<TheOpenSourcerer> I woke at 5am today...
<Myrtti> I suppose tea would be a good idea
<Myrtti> tea and eggs and tomato
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just had a lovely Bacon & Sausage roll from the van near Jewsons. Covered in hot chilli sauce. Nom, nom nom...
<Myrtti> mmm
<diplo> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Love this picture http://qz.com/132738/the-highly-unusual-company-behind-siracha-the-worlds-coolest-hot-sauce/ and love Sriracha too...
<directhex> tesco now sell own-brand finest siracha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fascinating article: "Fong Foods has neither employed a single  salesman nor spent a cent on advertising. Advertising would merely widen  the gap between demand and supply even further.Â âI donât advertise,  because I canât advertise,â Tran explained..."
<BigRedS> apparently our datacentre is moving at 0.5mph...
<diplo> Looks good TheOpenSourcerer, never tried it... will buy some tonight
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Minecraft-Unlikely-Persson-Changed-Everything/dp/1609805372
<MartijnVdS> popey: but you probably already have that pre-ordered ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy CAPS LOCK DAY! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: CAPS LOCK DAY? DON'T YOU MEAN HEADACHE DAY?
<JamesTait> I may come to regret bringing this to people's attention. ;)
<mungbean_> a professor said to me: "using windows 8 for the first time was quite easy because i am used to gnome3"
<directhex> there's a minecraft episode of south park, it's very good
<mungbean_> do they still make SP?
<directhex> mungbean_, yes
<mungbean_> i've never watched an episode
<mungbean_> must have been going 15 yrs or so
<MartijnVdS> almost as long as the Simpsons
<directhex> not quite
<directhex> south park started in 1997
<directhex> the simpsons in the late 80s
<popey> I haven't seen SP for maybe 10 years
<directhex> quality varies. some episodes are incredible
<directhex> i wouldn't bother watching anything from before the movie, really
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Oh poop!
<bigcalm> T - 3 days 5 hours
<diplo> Morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi diplo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diddledan> mornin all
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<diplo> Bit of mysql help/thoughts.. Ive got a stock table with id/part numbers etc, a supplier has sent us a list of 52k of there products in a csb
<diplo> csv*
<diplo> I've imported that csv into the same db as the stock table, want to see how many of their PartNumbers matchc our stock_num
<diplo> I'm having a serious blank on the best way to approach this
<mgdm> diplo: select * from supplier_parts inner join your_parts on supplier_parts.PartNumber = your_parts.stock_num
<mgdm> diplo: or some such
<awilkins> Latest interesting Saucy manifestation : notifiers appear as little blue text boxes top left instead of attractive shaded panels top right
<diplo> Hmm hadn't tried innerjoin. Trying now ta mgdm
<mgdm> diplo: inner join is "everything from the left with a match on the right"
<diplo> Top man, 3 hours sleep has ruined my brain today. 4882 matches, better than writing them up manually :)
<mgdm> woohoo :)
<diplo> Now to write a script to upload the info to the correct locations and upload images.
<diplo> thanks again
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> diplo, you too on the 3 hours sleep thing?! :-p
<diddledan> diplo: I disappeared to the land-of-nod about 6:30am up again about 3.5-4 hours later
<Svetlana> diplo! long time no see :)
<diplo> yeah, 2am and up at 4:30/5
<diplo> then kids in at 6
<diplo> :(
<mungbean_> crucial are recommending RAM that runs at 10600, although 12800 speed works too. any reason why i shouldn't get the 12800 RAM for the same price
<diplo> Anyone downloaded from Skydrive site under linux before, getting no errors but it goes off when I click download, grabs a load of js files and then stops
<directhex> mungbean_, probably not
<directhex> diplo, has worked for me fine in the past
<mungbean_> ta
<mungbean_> its still in the compatible list
<directhex> mungbean_, *probably*. if you're asking the question you are probably not in the class of users where it matters
<diplo> I'll persist ta
<mungbean_> well the ram will run at 10600
<mungbean_> but is perhaps more future prroof if i update my pc at some point
<directhex> yes, it'll run at the lower speed. it may not run the same SPD timings at the lower speed as at the high speed, and possibly not the same when running at the lower speed as the RAM rated for the lower speed
<directhex> but you're unlikely to care, unless you know what SPD stands for
<diddledan> strange peripheral device*
<diddledan> :-p
<diplo> Hmm firefox issue
<diplo> Working under Chromium, well apart from it started it twice when I clicked it once
<diplo> Still awful speeds though :/
<Svetlana> What Firefox issue?
<Svetlana> Ah, the hang on JS download.
<Svetlana> If you're interested in shooting troubles around a bit, check this out. https://support.mozilla.com/kb/Safe+Mode
<diplo> The download wouldn;t start full stop, I use FF for dev all the time, only issue so far has been the skydrive site
<diplo> But looking at that link anyhoo
<popey> bug 1242912
<lubotu3> bug 1242912 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Software and updates does not work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242912
<popey> bug 1241416
<lubotu3> bug 1241416 in apport (Ubuntu) "No action after clicking 'report crash' button" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241416
<Laney> That last one doesn't sound like a bug to me
<popey> ditto
<MartijnVdS> a bug in the bug reporting tool. Meta! :)
<jpds> MartijnVdS: You need to go deeper.
<mungbean_> my sis appears to be a reasonable forger http://i.imgur.com/wVRZipP.jpg
<mungbean_> it annoys me when people have obivous musical and artistic talent and never use it
<bashrc> so far my 13.10 experience has been pretty good, although I had a few crash dialogs at the beginning
<Myrtti> whoop, I found my tea!
<Myrtti> was getting a bit annoyed after looking everywhere for it
<jussi> Myrtti: congratulations. what kind of tea is in question here?
<Myrtti> Yorkshire Hard Water
<mungbean_> thats in every supermarket in uK
<Myrtti> yes
<Myrtti> we bought a pack of 240 in May before I flew to Finland
<Myrtti> wanted my morning brew this morning and couldn't find it anywhere
<Myrtti> it was stashed on top of the kitchen cupboards
<Myrtti> no wonder I couldn't find it
<mungbean_> online/shopping/unity is enabled on the livecd  - how do i disable?
<BigRedS> dpkg -l | grep amazon
<BigRedS> remove what comes up
<BigRedS> or maybe grep for shopping, actually
<mungbean_> isn't there a proper way?
<mungbean_> via the dash?
<BigRedS> Probably
<mungbean_> privacy
<mungbean_> disabled online search
<mungbean_> dash is not behaving
<mungbean_> sorry, launcher
<mungbean_> if i have an ecnrypted home partition  is there anything i need to do before reinstalling a OS while keep the home partition?
<popey> how is it encrypted?
<mungbean_> actually, looks like i only have /home/user/.Private
<popey> you need to use ecryptfs-unwrap-passphrase then
<mungbean_> cheers
<popey> (while booted to the old OS)
<mungbean_> oh fail. i hadn't created a separate /home. thats what happens when you triple boot
<popey> you dont need separate home
<SuperMatt> I do it out of habit
<mungbean_> and lack of trust for installers to do the right thing
<SuperMatt> that too
<mungbean_> resize2fs is taking rather long :@
 * TheOpenSourcerer read that as reiserfs... Used to use that a lot...
<BigRedS> there was resize2fs that made it as far as Debian stable with an infinite-loop bug in it
<BigRedS> I can't remember exactly the circumstances that trigger it, but I think it was only when shrinking
<mungbean_> ah
<BigRedS> (and so if it's taking you forever it might be that)
<mungbean_> i'm shrinking
<mungbean_> you know what, i think i've been bit by this before
<BigRedS> Hm. I didn't note down the bug, but it's whatever was in Debian Stable on 2013-02-28
<mungbean_> i wonder if you can ctrl C it
<BigRedS> which I think was the very end of Squeeze?
<BigRedS> yeah, my logs from when it happened say I ctrl-Ced it, e2fscked it and it was okay
<mungbean_> tghanks
 * TheOpenSourcerer now has "Cool for Cats" as his earworm for the afternoon... Thanks BigRedS
<SuperMatt> you poor thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> having only just got rid of "Shopping at Lidl's" :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks to AlanBell
<BigRedS> haha
<mungbean_> centos gparted won't resize anything. weird
<mungbean_> they aren't mounted or anything funky
<diddledan> mungbean_: I recall that some standard ext4 flags cause resize2fs to complain that it can't resize when they're turned on - problem is there's no way of turning them off once they're on
<mungbean_> weird
<mungbean_> booting a 13.10 usb to try
<mungbean_> imagewriter doesn't write ubuntu images anymroe :S
<mungbean_> lol. type parted and it apps appear under online results
<diddledan> os x mavericks (the yet-to-be-released version 10.9) is pretty decent
<mungbean_> BigRedS: thanks. took 15 seconds in 13.10
<mungbean_> nasty bug
<mungbean_> consdering thats what i tend to use usb live for
<diddledan> mungbean_: ouch
<diddledan> that is nasty as you're already messing with the filesystem you want the util to be rock solid
<diplo> What do you guys use for backing up windows machines that are broke, not done so much recently but used to use old ubuntus, just worried the machine I'm going to fix tonight is a bit old and unity may be to heavy
<diplo> Going to take one anyway, just wondering if anyone else uses any other live cd
<dwatkins> diplo: clonezilla
<mungbean_> dd
<diplo> Wasn't going to image it, more mount with a live disc and copy to a usb drive
<diplo> Is what I normally do
<ali1234> xubuntu
<diplo> Do they come with ntfs-3g already on the live disc does anyone know ?
<dwatkins> iirc, clonezilla is filesystem-aware, not sure which filesystems it can handle, though
<diplo> Hmm might as well try before I go I guess.. be more sensible
<TheOpenSourcerer> exit
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah
<dwatkins> there's always "ghost for unix" or g4u, diplo - you can FTP an NTFS partiton into a gzip archive
<diplo> Only really want images/files etc, not overly worried about the machine itself
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know why Ubuntu changed the "halt" alias to not call shutdown "-h" ? So it doesn't do a power down any more?
<diplo> ali1234: What was the PI thing I saw earlier ?
<diplo> Going to try Xubuntu, already have ghost etc if it comes to that
<diplo> Even worse, it's vista :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - time to head off chaps and chapesses. have to take kids swimming shortly... Laterz
<diplo> hah did mine yesterday, laters TheOpenSourcerer
<mungbean_> today is going slowly
<diplo> Mines going quickly until now, I've lost my will now :)
<mungbean_> 3pm is my natural lull
<BigRedS> yeah, I've just noticed it's not even quite 3 yet
<ali1234> diplo: on g+?
<diplo> yeah
<BigRedS> I think going for lunch at 10:30 might have been a mistake
<diplo> I thought it was only 1ish, so I'm quite happy
<ali1234> diplo: this, with a custom circuit for raspberry pi: https://github.com/ali1234/avr-teletext
<diplo> lol BigRedS, you think :D
<diplo> Nice, although was there a reason behind the project or just tinkering ?
<mungbean_> ok. bad idea. i wrote the ecrypt unwrap password inside my home folder
<BigRedS> Is there some way to make the joint email-and-jabber indicator into two, one for emails and one for jabbers?
<dwatkins> Today I learned that Windows Server 2008 has NFS client and server capabilities.
<diplo> If you work that out BigRedS I'd be happy to know :)
<diplo> Didn't 2K3 as well dwatkins ?
<dwatkins> no idea, diplo - only just found out about it
<diplo> r2 defo did I'm sure
<diplo> yup
<dwatkins> ah ok, I'm still shocked that it exists, and it makes me feel rather strange
<diplo> We nearly used it at one point I think and then decided against it
<diplo> hah
<dwatkins> I imagine case-sensitivity is a fun problem with it.
<BigRedS> what is that thing called? Message indicator?
<mungbean_> can you mount .Private when its in a different directory?
<mungbean_> just mount it as ecryptfs partition?
<diplo> BigRedS: indicator-applets and messaging-menu integrators
<diplo> ?
 * diplo has never played with encryption so keeps mouth shut :)
<SuperMatt> hurm... what's a good way to automatically restart openvpn if it fails?
<BigRedS> monit?
<diddledan> dwatkins: it's been removed from 2012
<dwatkins> diddledan: oh wow, it was that bad? ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> it disappeared along with the "subsystem for unix applications"
<diddledan> both of which were originally part of interix which microsoft bought and called services for unix for a wile
<diddledan> while*
<mungbean_> i've really got my knickers in a twist
<BigRedS> Anyone know if Gnome 3 also does that? I don't think I used a graphical mail client with that
<mungbean_> with this stupid encrypted home dir
<BigRedS> I've not yet ever had to debug it
<BigRedS> and, were I to, I'd probably blow it away and start again :)
 * diplo is booting Xbuntu, I prefer the loading screen for a start
<diplo> Looks quite professional
<BigRedS> hah, yeah I'm just pondering Ubuntu
<BigRedS> Apparently that shared messaging icon thing is a massive pain for everyone who's got unity, and it's probably easiest for me to just install xfce
<diplo> Blimey, thunar has come on leaps and bounds since I last used it
<dwatkins> Do Ubuntu mail clients understand the SMB convention \\servername\share\directory\file so you can click the link in a mail to open up your chosen file explorer to this location?
<diplo> hmm, this is actually quite nice
<davmor2> SuperMatt: upstart-application script maybe?
<diddledan> dwatkins: I don't know for sure, but I would guess not.
<dwatkins> I suspected as much, diddledan - which is a good thing, as it's not a URL
<dwatkins> I prefer smb://server/something/etc/etc/
<diddledan> yeah, I much prefer URLs (I never did work out the difference between a URL and a URI)
<SuperMatt> davmor2: I thought about upstart, but one end if debian
<SuperMatt> no upstart there
<dwatkins> HTTP is a URI, as is SMB, I think - possibly including the ://
<SuperMatt> I think my plan is to attempt to ping one side from the other. If it aint up, it restarts
<dwatkins> yeah, example of a URI is HTTP:
<BigRedS> dwatkins: isn't that the scheme part of a URI?
<dwatkins> oh, now I'm completely confused, then, BigRedS
<BigRedS> Actually, I thought a URL was composed of [scheme]://[host][uri]
<BigRedS> but I don't know why I thought that
<diddledan> lol @ email I got from a colleague: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6283414/
<BigRedS> and the wiki page on 'URL' doesn't have enough pictures for me to immediately believe to to be particularly disambiguating
<diddledan> uri
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_resource_identifier
<diddledan> more confusion
<diddledan> ok, so a URL is actually an implementation of a URI
<diddledan> and ISBN for books is a URN or another implementation of a URI
<BigRedS> Oh, right
<diddledan> URLs tell you where something is and URNs uniquely identify what that something is - both are forms of URI
<diplo> Busy then diddledan :)
<diddledan> diplo: I'm procrastinating :-p
<diplo> :)
<BigRedS> diplo: I filed a bug against what might or might not be that indicator: bug 1243240
<lubotu3> bug 1243240 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "It is unclear what sort of unread message is being indicated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243240
<diplo> It's been like that since forever hasn't it though ? No other bugs setup ?
<diplo> Anyhoo, I'm going to skive off for the last 20 mins as noone is here and I also didn't take a lunch so not really skiving :)
<diplo> Catch you all either later or tomorrow
<diplo> :)
<mungbean_> you don't have to justify it to us ;)
<diddledan> tata
<diplo> heh, BigRedS added myself to it btw
<diddledan> you only have to justify it to the paymaster
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> *wookie*
<diddledan> aka neeeaaaarrrgggghhhh
<diddledan> ^^^^ I was stretching
<BigRedS> I couldn't find any other bugs, but I wasn't really sure what to look for
<BigRedS> it's probably been like that for a while, but I've only been using Thunderbird for about a fortnight
<ali1234> xfce is having "problems" with indicators at the moment
<diddledan> 719139389 hours left on a download
<diddledan> methinks it's stalled
<ali1234> bug 1208204
<lubotu3> bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<ali1234> bug 1203888
<lubotu3> bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203888
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> c
<ali1234> bug 1238997
<lubotu3> bug 1238997 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Add support for GTK3 panel indicators" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238997
<ali1234> basically indicators are a complete mess ootb on xubuntu
<ali1234> and the only reasonable way to fix it is to build bleeding edge versions of the panel from upstream git
<diddledan> so that's only 82thousand years
<celesteh> hi, i'm try to start backing up my home directory with rsync and i've got a list of directories I'm try to exclude including .local/Trash, etc. I've got these stored in a text file, one per line, but i think i must have some command line syntax wrong, since the directories are not being excluded.  The command I'm trying is: rsync --dry-run -avz --delete --compress-level=9 --exclude-from=celesteh/rsync-exclude-list.txt --delete-exclu
<celesteh> ded celesteh user@server.rsync.net: > /tmp/dry.txt
<diddledan> give or take a hundred or so
<ali1234> annoyingly, the fixed up xfce4-panel was ready in time for saucy, but nobody could figure out how to package it in time
<ali1234> myself included
<ali1234> yet another example of packaging being harder than writing the software in the first place
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hello see your pm you have a message
<celesteh> does anyone have an example of an rsync-exclude file they don't mind sharing?
<SuperMatt> I don't, sorry
<davmor2> celesteh: there is a listing on the ubuntu server guide for backups that might give you a clue if that helps
<celesteh> cheers, davmor2
<celesteh> It appears that the exlcude file can't just list directories, but they all need to be relative paths and end with /*
<celesteh> which is annoying because then it includes the directory
<celesteh> but at least it ends up empty
<czajkowski> davmor2: I ahve now sorry was on a clal
<czajkowski> *call
<czajkowski> bah
<SuperMatt> oh geez, I just noticed some extremely bad times I could have had with my caching proxy
<diddledan> SuperMatt: were they dirty dirty times?
<diddledan> if so, pictures please!
<SuperMatt> we have fail2ban installed on our webserver, so the caching proxy could request a few sites (phpmyadmin, whatever), and then be banned from the webserver
<diddledan> \o/
<SuperMatt> good job I thought of that before putting this in to production
<diddledan> fail2ban ftw
<SuperMatt> sure, just remember if you have a caching proxy to put in some exceptions ;)
<diddledan> I have a client who outsourced their hosting to a different company than mine who's server uses fail2ban and rather draconian rate limiting - my deployment script used ssh liberally so I'd get half way through a deployment and then get locked out
<diddledan> I've since modified it to use pipelining
<SuperMatt> ugg
<SuperMatt> slap them!
<diddledan> this is a snippet from my writeup on our internal wiki: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6283861/
<diddledan> I should plop it on my blog
<diddledan> in fact. good idea
<diddledan> blog entry forthcoming!
<SuperMatt> nice script
<SuperMatt> right, I'm off
<SuperMatt> have a good evening o/
<diddledan> tata
<Myrtti> meh. I wonder should I upgrade the lappy to 13.10
<Myrtti> keepass2 refuses to play nice with keepasshttp
<MartijnVdS> how does one pronounce keepasshttp ?
<MartijnVdS> that's WAY too many consonants in a row
<neuro> woo woo
<neuro> OS X 10.9 Mavericks = Free
<neuro> (as in beer)
<diddledan> what?!
<diddledan> free??
<neuro> ja
<diddledan> forever?
<neuro> well
<diddledan> wow
<neuro> they're saying it'll be no cost from now on, but who knows if that'll change
<neuro> wow, avail today as well
<neuro> tonight is going to be fun for me
<neuro> (2x macbook pro, mac mini)
<diddledan> is it available for the pc yet? :-p
<popey> I don't think legacy computers support OSX :Ã¾
<diddledan> my stream keeps skipping :-(
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> it's terrible
<popey> wfm
<neuro> always is
<neuro> i wish they'd give up on quicktime streaming and just do streams on youtube
<neuro> new macbook pros now, SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
<neuro> "the black knight"? Phil, really?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: wrong channel
<neuro> MartijnVdS: macs run linux too
<MartijnVdS> neuro: sure, but you still have to pay for that logo
<neuro> i pay the apple tax gladly
<neuro> because i get way way better hardware
<MartijnVdS> For desktops, I'll stick to homebrew, for laptops.. dunno yet :)
<MartijnVdS> All I know is that I won't use MacOS, because I can't stand it
<neuro> awww ;)
<neuro> actually, technically it's not called MacOS ... ;)
<neuro> (any more)
<MartijnVdS> you know what i mean
<neuro> i know, i was being facetious
<neuro> these are crazy numbers
<neuro> 64GB RAM, 12GB VRAM on a workstation
<MartijnVdS> wut
<neuro> "up to", of course, so you'll have to pay for it
<MartijnVdS> and I thought 16G was overkill
<neuro> up to 1TB onboard flash storage
<neuro> totally
<MartijnVdS> 64G is what you get for a very-low-end VM host
<neuro> if you're lucky
<neuro> can drive 3 4K displays
<neuro> this thing is a monster
<H4ml3t> hi all
<neuro> evening
<H4ml3t> there's someone from london?
<H4ml3t> i'm going to study at birkbeck
<H4ml3t> i need some advices
<diddledan> phooo $3000
<neuro> that's cheap
<diddledan> for the spec, yes
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> sorry, that's what i meant :)
<diddledan> it's cheap for the spec, but still a large dent in my wallet
<neuro> jeez yeah
<neuro> suspect it'll probably be about Â£2500 when it gets here
<diddledan> yeah, prolly
<diddledan> maybe 2599
<neuro> actually yeah, hehe
<diddledan> just because they like 99's
<neuro> well to be fair, most companies do
<neuro> i love these behind the scenes videos
<neuro> the manufacturing ones
<diddledan> fudge, it's stalled again
<neuro> just mash on refresh, that's what i've been doing
<diddledan> it's your fault! :-p
<neuro> probably
<neuro> my macbook pro is jinxing you all
<diddledan> I'm on an MBP too :-p
<neuro> \o/
<diddledan> running mavericks, no less
<neuro> really?
<diddledan> yup
<neuro> you ponied up for the dev program, huh
<diddledan> been running it since they seeded the GM to devs
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Ubuntu Maverick Meerkat?
<neuro> MartijnVdS: plural, not singular
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah, how long ago was that?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ssh
<neuro> tcp/22
<diddledan> rsync
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 10.10
<diddledan> jeez
<diddledan> that's ancient
<neuro> hehe
<diddledan> almost as ancient as me
<MartijnVdS> it's also a [ck]at.. the OSX naming theme
<neuro> mavericks is a place in california
<neuro> which is the new OS X naming scheme
<MartijnVdS> they ran out of cats?
<neuro> well they were tempted by OS X Sea Lion ...
<diddledan> the stream is well and truly dead here
<diddledan> drummer? it just started again after hanging in the behind-the-scenes vid
<neuro> the drummer is pretty cool
<diddledan> aah garage band
<neuro> yep
<MartijnVdS> garbage band
<neuro> wut
<diddledan> dammit, you have to buy a new device to get them free
<neuro> well that was always the case
<neuro> they've always preloaded the latest iLife on new macs
<neuro> the new ios device preload is a new thing though (well new since the new phones came out)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: why hate?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's too easy with a name like that
<neuro> it's still unnecessarily mean, especially since you're an admitted OS X holdout
<neuro> i'm not especially keen on ubuntu desktop these days, but i don't call it garbage
<diddledan> is that bill gates in the audience? </troll> :-p
<diddledan> I need a new mac and a new iphone to get all these freebies
<neuro> well like i said, that's not that new :)
<diddledan> no, you're missing the emphasis - I NEED!!! a new mac and a new iphone so that I can get access to all these freebies
<neuro> oh hehe
<neuro> oh, ipads
<neuro> forgot they were doing ipads today
<MartijnVdS> ipads mini? or regular ones as well?
<diddledan> I MUST buy! where's the apple store?!
<neuro> both, suspected
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: online? :)
 * popey wonders what channel he wandered into
<MartijnVdS> popey: #maclovers
<neuro> MartijnVdS: apple store is shut while announcement events are on :)
<MartijnVdS> -uk
<MartijnVdS> neuro: just keep reloading until you can order then
<neuro> i'm not ordering anything
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ^
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> it's pretty straightforward, you just wait until the event is over, wait about 10-15 minutes, then it's back again
<diddledan> with new shiny
<neuro> popey: you've wandered into a channel where a couple of ubuntu community members are discussing some new shiny
<popey> your sarcasm detector is broken
<neuro> dammiy
<neuro> s/y/t
<neuro> and that was a broken regex
<neuro> popey: do you have a spare detector?
<neuro> not being able to detect sarcasm would make me ... *gulp* ... American!
<ali1234> can i get hackintosh on virtualbox?
<neuro> it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere has done that
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: is KVM ok?
<ali1234> no, kvm sucks
<neuro> lol
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and virtualbox doesn't?
<ali1234> correct
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<neuro> *cough*parallels*cough*
<MartijnVdS> neuro: what, openvz?
<MartijnVdS> or isn't that them?
<ali1234> hahahaha aahahaha
<ali1234> parallels... i think the only people who use it are people who assume it must be good because it costs money
<DJones> Watching irc & twitter is quite funny "I don't know how I went from the #Apple announcements to YouTube vids of people beating up cops. where is the correlation?" Not to the victims, but how topics change
<neuro> i use it
<neuro> MartijnVdS: yeah
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I only have bad experiences with ovz
<neuro> DJones: it's like youtube comments in slow motion
<neuro> ipad mini = dead
<neuro> ipad air (took them long enough)
<MartijnVdS> what's that then? just a replacement mini?
<neuro> oh wait
<neuro> my stream is dead so i'm relying on live blogs
<DJones> neuro: Not bothered about that youtube is either spam or just somewhere to post videos to link from somewhere else (I do it to a wordpress blog)
<neuro> ipad air is the big size
<DJones> s/to/from/
<neuro> 9.7" retina size
<MartijnVdS> So 7" is android-land once more?
<MartijnVdS> and Ubuntu, of course :P
<neuro> no, ignore what i said about ipad mini
 * MartijnVdS wants the Nexus 5 event
<neuro> thursday
<MartijnVdS> my Galaxy Nexus is starting to show its age
<neuro> i bet!
<MartijnVdS> not as bad as my Nexus One when I retired it though
<neuro> ipad 2 isn't being retired
<neuro> oh no, jony ive video!
<DJones> I've had 2 tablets, a 10" and a 7", from my useage, I found the 10
<DJones> 10" to be too big, 7" is the right size
<neuro> odd, i feel the opposite way
<neuro> except for ebook reading
<DJones> Thats 50% of my usage (ebook reading)
<neuro> :)
<DJones> neuro: Since I got my N7-2, my kobo has hardly been used
<neuro> ipad mini getting retina display
<neuro> oof and both new ipads have the 64-bit A7
<neuro> and original ipad mini still available at lowered price
<DJones> So thats stock they couldn't sell
<neuro> nah, standard tiering play
<neuro> they sell these things so fast that they are continually manufacturing them
<neuro> same as the way they still sell the iphone 4s
<neuro> come on, tim, apple tv update ...
<DJones> Agreed, but made too many but can't sell them
<neuro> DJones: highly highly doubtful
<diddledan> one more thing?
<neuro> diddledan: i have a feeling those times are gone :(
<DJones> diddledan: iGlass announcement?
<diddledan> aww :-(
<neuro> iGlass?
<diddledan> no idfea
<diddledan> idea
<diddledan> iwatch and iwindow and icoat and ishoes
<diddledan> and idoor
<neuro> iHat
<diddledan> ichair
<DJones> neuro: Hey, at some point they're going to copy Google's iSpecsavers :)
<neuro> can't see it
<neuro> (if you'll pardon the pun)
<diddledan> nope, no new tv
<neuro> that's that
<DJones> diddledan: Didn't Homer Simpon do the iChair
<diddledan> he's on the thanks
<diddledan> :-(
<neuro> ah well
<neuro> i keep hoping they'll do apps for the tv, so that then i can get plex on the tv without bothering with jailbrake shenanigans
<neuro> my apple tv 2 is gathering dust at the moment
<diddledan> I'm still holiding out on buying one
<neuro> although i'm tempted to plug it in here in my office
<neuro> mavericks + airplay screen
<neuro> store is open :)
<diddledan> anywho, brb - updating textual
<neuro> textual?
<diddledan> and back in the room
<diddledan> irc client
<diddledan> it's in the app store
<neuro> ok, sorry, that was weird
<neuro> i googled it and it came back with zero results
<neuro> but i've done it again and there's the results
<diddledan> it's also opensource iirc so you can conceivably compile it yourself
<neuro> nice
<neuro> i'm still a linkinus doofus
<diddledan> https://github.com/Codeux/Textual for the source
<neuro> cheersQ
<neuro> s/Q/\!/
<diddledan> dang, thunders
<diddledan> and lightnings
<MartijnVdS> very very frightening
<shauno> (very very frightening)
<mungbean_> me
<MartijnVdS> Galileo?
<mungbean_> galileo
<diddledan> figgaro
<shauno> you missed ^[3.   :(
<diddledan> o_O what's ^[3. ???
<mungbean_> somehwere in my lounge is the battery cover for my remote
<mungbean_> but where,,,....?
<shauno> repeat your previous entries  (^[ is escape .. vim ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: "Oh kids.. it's cavity search time again!"
 * MartijnVdS recompiles the new security-fixed kernel with L2TP support
<MartijnVdS> L2TPv3
<MartijnVdS> can't wait for the saucy "LTS enablement" kernel for precise
<MartijnVdS> or the new LTS
<shauno> the what now?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they release new kernels for LTS releases from the releases following it
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so you can run it on newer hardware, but in saucy, they also enabled L2TPv3, which I need on one of my precise boxes
<shauno> ah
<MartijnVdS> I could upgrade it to saucy, but that's not LTS (and I hate upgrading ;))
<MartijnVdS> so I just recompile the kernel with the support I want (it's only 2 config flags)
<shauno> yeah.  that's why I'm still on lucid.  oh, lazy lucid ..
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I have one lucid machine, because of changed compiler flags and unsupported CPU on newer releases :(
<neuro> os x upgrade time *bounce*
<diddledan> neuro: if you use multimonitor things are improved drastically
<neuro> i don't (mbp in clamshell)
<neuro> tsk, waiting for time machine to finish
<neuro> but i might drag my apple tv 2 through and give that a go
<neuro> backup done, back soon ;)
<popey> neuro: all done?
 * popey ponders upgrading ye olde imac and wifeys mbp
 * mgdm 's going to leave it a day or three :-)
<popey> jussi: did you ever get that HDMI switch from DX?
<neuro> well, that took longer than expected
<popey> heh
<shauno> and now spotlight is going to melt your machine and make you think the update is bunk  *nods*
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-23
<ali1234> !info libavcodec-extra-53 precise
<lubotu3> libavcodec-extra-53 (source: libav-extra): Libav codec library. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:0.8.6ubuntu0.12.04.1 (precise), package size 5689 kB, installed size 14345 kB
<ali1234> !info libavutil-extra-51 precise
<lubotu3> libavutil-extra-51 (source: libav-extra): Libav utility library. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:0.8.6ubuntu0.12.04.1 (precise), package size 130 kB, installed size 326 kB
<ali1234> i need something like the RES thing where you can add notes to people, for G+
<ali1234> i have loads of followers and no idea who they are
<ali1234> what do you do when you want to + mention someone, but that person has a really common name and the auto complete doesn't show them?
<jumfernandez_> sorry i need help
<Myrtti> morning
<jussi> popey: not yet, expect it later this week (takes a few weks for dx stuff to get here)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think I've just found a new mod for my kids to play on Minecraft: http://qcraft.org/
<BigRedS> I'm surprised people still play Minecraft. Maybe I need to check out all these mods
<SuperMatt> apparently the mods make it
<Myrtti> ooh
<Myrtti> I finally have a laptop powerful enough to bother with minecraft
<Myrtti> again
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Mole Day! :-D
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> urrr why isn't our site working I get from a colleague this morning ( umm maybe because you've let the domain expire!!!! )
<diplo> bah!
<mungbean_> started a large rsyn last night on my laptop
<SuperMatt> diplo: d'ohÂ¬!
<mungbean_> came in this morning to discover i was in / dir instead of /home and it filled up within couple mins of me leaving the office
<SuperMatt> also, don't most providers automatically renew?
<SuperMatt> I guess if you forget to update payment methods, that'd screw you over
<diplo> SuperMatt: My question as well, they have our CC details...
<diplo> This company is useless though!
<SuperMatt> most companies usually are :P
<diplo> And the guy who organises our domain sets all emails to go to him rather than our generic one that delivers to 3 of us
<mungbean_> there's your SPOF
<SuperMatt> slap 'em
<mungbean_> with a kipper
<mungbean_> i don't understand why every chrome tab needs 50-100MB minimum
<popey> pip pip
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<SuperMatt> mungbean_: turn off javascript and see if that changes :D
<popey> ooh https://plus.google.com/u/0/118270628723674020025/posts/MDcrEms1xHE
<BigRedS> oooh
<mungbean_> wow, a MS surface, they do exist
<BigRedS> yeah, that's the one they sold
<BigRedS> I'm at least as surprised to find someone owning a surface as I am to find that it's running Ubuntu
<SuperMatt> dang
<SuperMatt> I have been interested in a surface as devide to chuck ubuntu on
<SuperMatt> but then I remembered I couldn't be bothered
<BigRedS> I was briefly tempted by a surface
<BigRedS> but now all I want is a retina/pixel display on a small laptop
<SuperMatt> sure
<SuperMatt> I would like that too
<SuperMatt> might be worth seeing if I can get hold of a second hand macbook
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, someone was saying something about new ones being imminent
<dwatkins> mornin
<BigRedS> Goood morning!
<SuperMatt> moanin'
<BigRedS> Aha, I've just succesfully configured my mailserver such that Thunderbird can correctly guess the config :)
<mungbean_> couldn't fit on my bus today because there were 4 community support officers riding on it
<BigRedS> Do you work at QMUL?
<mungbean_> check my whois
<mungbean_> you wanna job?
<BigRedS> ah!
<mungbean_> i'm hiring
<mungbean_> work in OSS
<BigRedS> nah, I just remember the 25 always being full
<mungbean_> lol
<BigRedS> I went to QM, er, for a bit :)
<mungbean_> at least the tramps don't ride it anymore
<mungbean_> they used to live on the 25 when it was a bendy bus
<mungbean_> i mean live on it
<BigRedS> yeah, that's when I was there
<BigRedS> is it not bendy any more?
<mungbean_> nope
<mungbean_> bendy buses got banned by boris
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<BigRedS> I thought I hadn't seen any for a while; now you mention it I remember hearing about that
<mungbean_> its so hard to hire people nowadays
<BigRedS> (I moved out of London for a while)
<mungbean_> nobody wants a job
<BigRedS> what is it you're hiring for? I'm pretty happy where I am, but I know a few people who might be up for new things
<mungbean_> i got told off in centos for mentioning it :(
<diplo> I'd love a job mungbean_ just a bit to far :/
<mungbean_> i'll see if the ad is up
<diplo> I'm honestly going to have to look around at moving and seeing my kids slightly less I think
<SuperMatt> I'd be interested in a new jon
<SuperMatt> job
<mungbean_> BigRedS: basically a sysadminny type role but less on hardware infrastructure and more on OS and apps, and HPC. heavily linux/OSS
<SuperMatt> man, I can't spell
<mungbean_> job ad is going up today i think
<SuperMatt> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=295551739& <- this is the kind of stuff I do
<mungbean_> You and this LinkedIn user donât know anyone in common
<SuperMatt> yet I *still* get job ads for windows
<SuperMatt> you can't see my skills?
<SuperMatt> let me open it up a bit
<mungbean_> nope
<SuperMatt> uhm
<mungbean_> pastebin it ?
<SuperMatt> my public profile is set to visible to everyone
<SuperMatt> http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-ames/82/b90/a77
<SuperMatt> try that
<BigRedS> mungbean_: ah, fair enough, I'll ask about
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: RHCE? pervert
<mungbean_> looks up our street
<SuperMatt> RHCSA
<SuperMatt> I was convinced to do it at my last job
<SuperMatt> there were two more seasoned pros who also did it
<mungbean_> RHCE (and variants are worthwhile)
<SuperMatt> I was the only one to pass ;)
<mungbean_> you must pass first time
<mungbean_> cos the second time is...well, you know the questions
<BigRedS> er. "
<SuperMatt> sure
<mungbean_> are you looking?
<SuperMatt> I kinda am if the location and money are worth it
<BigRedS> LinkedIn Today recommends this news for you: "What I learned when I got fired (again)"
<BigRedS> do they know something I don't?
<mungbean_> they read your mail
<mungbean_> tbh i'm surprised we all agree to linked
<mungbean_> in
<SuperMatt> I haven't given linked in access to my email
<SuperMatt> I refuse
<mungbean_> me too, but i'm suspicious anyway
<mungbean_> i have a fake account that seems to know about my real account. could be IP based but meh
<BigRedS> Yeah, I've long held them up as the pinnacle of shifty
<BigRedS> but by that point I was already signed up and had told them all about me
<mungbean_> lol
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> morning! How's things?
<brobostigon> my eczema is playing up, otherwise fine. and you BigRedS ?
<BigRedS> Not bad; I've just been explaining Unity behaviour as "no, that *is* how it's supposed to work"
<dwatkins> some friends of mine moved from Leicester to Norwich, and their daughter's eczema cleared-up, I wonder if there's something in the water that she's allergic to.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: :)
<BigRedS> it's one _really_ minor thing that basically makes it unworkable to all our admin people apparently
<BigRedS> I've filed a bug, but now they know they didn't break it they want me to fix it...
<BigRedS> (bug 1243240 in case it affects you as well :) )
<lubotu3> bug 1243240 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "It is unclear what sort of unread message is being indicated" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243240
<BigRedS> Oh, the Thunderbird icon has the number of unread messages in its launcher icon thingy
<BigRedS> but pidgin doesn't. Is there a more Ubuntu-approved IM client that does?
<diplo> Empathy ?
<diplo> That's the default isn't it
<BigRedS> is it?
<BigRedS> ah, well it's installed and I didn't install it :)
<diplo> yeah it seems from 9.10 empathy has been default
<BigRedS> Ah right, empathy has the numbers
<mungbean_> software centre makes my fan spin up immediately
<BigRedS> so instead of the indicator in the top bar we can use whatever the thing down the side is called, if I get everyone to use empahty
<BigRedS> argh. But I can't then hide the top bar, and Im sure it used to be trivial to shrink the side one
<mungbean_> pidgin ftw
<BigRedS> yeah, except pidgin doesn't work with the Unity way of knowing if you've got IMs
<diplo> BigRedS: you can get the sidebar to autohide in settings somewhere
<BigRedS> diplo: yeah, but I want it visible so that I can use it instead of relying on the envelope on the top bar
<diplo> Might be under display, I can find if you like .?
<diplo> Make the icons smaller so it doesn't take up as much space ?
<BigRedS> ahh, that tack sounds familiar
<BigRedS> oh, that's on the 'look' tab
<mungbean_> i can't believe that debconf window is still a bug
<diplo> Appearance
<mungbean_> i get it on most of my machines
<diplo> Mines down to 32, I'd prefer smaller still tbh
<mungbean_> bug 735070
<lubotu3> bug 912708 in software-center (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #735070 Software Center displays blank and frozen Debconf dialogs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912708
<BigRedS> diplo: yeah, and to be able to have the top bar autohiding, too
<BigRedS> right, but Empathy can't show me incoming messages apparently
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> morning!
<brobostigon> lol, the PM was told of by the speaker, for calling the labour leader a conman.
<DJones> Don't see how that can be worth a telling off, they're all politicans, are there any you wouldn't describe as that :)
<andrewebdev> Does the "domain" in this guide refer to the domain without www.  subdomain, or with? http://docs.webfaction.com/user-guide/websites.html#generating-a-certificate-signing-request
<BigRedS> andrewebdev: it'll be the domain for which you want the cert
<BigRedS> whether that's www, the domain itself or some other subdomain is largely up to you
<BigRedS> but a standard sSL cert will only work with one of them
<andrewebdev> thx BigRedS
<mungbean_> anyone fixed their energy prices lately?
<mungbean_> i'm a mathematician and its all a bit much to take in
<dwatkins> that's scary
<mungbean_> you have to consider whether you will switch provider after the fix runs out
<mungbean_> and the hassle of doing so is rather high
<gordonjcp> what we need is a price comparison site comparison site
<mgdm> I was once going to register comparetheconfusedmeerkat.com for that purpose
<mungbean_> you mean gocomparetheconfusedmeerkat.com
<mungbean_> the problem is that energy comapnies are terrible at switching you over
<mungbean_> and cock up DD and energy reading etc
<Laney> I didn't find the switching problematic when I last did it
<mungbean_> shill!
<mungbean_> i just bought a choc orange for Â£1 \o/
<Laney> question atm is whether to leave the current fix now before everything goes up, or look for new fixes when it ends in april
<mungbean_> stuff is going up now
<mungbean_> edf are fixing one till 2015
<Laney> yes
<mungbean_> npower are fixing for 4 yrs
<Laney> but it's way more than i pay now
<mungbean_> Laney: who u with?
<Laney> so do I keep on the cheap one for now?
<mungbean_> edf turn out Â£50 cheaper than eon
<Laney> or take the hit now and risk paying a lot more than I could get today in six months time
<Laney> err
<Laney> you know what I mean
<Laney> I'm with EDF atm
<mungbean_> the edf fix until 2015 is how much more?
<Laney> 80 quid a year or so
<Laney> we're pretty low use, so higher standing charges affect us a lot
<directhex> ENERGIE DE FRANCE
<mungbean_> quidco are offering up to Â£28 cashback for using confused.com :S:S
<Laney> total for gas + electricity was about 540 last year
<directhex> HON HON HON
<mungbean_> mine is 870 due to baby
<Laney> directhex: joss works for edf :3
<mungbean_> boil kettle and microwave steriliser and keep heatig on loads
<directhex> Laney, well, he is a froggy frenchman, so...
<Laney> correct
<Laney> so you're supporting Debian by buying EDF
<davmor2> Laney, mungbean_: get your total meter numbers for a month electric/gas then just look at the per unit price to see how much you'd save lose :)
<mungbean_> davmor2: if only so easy
<mungbean_> price fixes
<mungbean_> some are till 2014 . some till 2015 , or 2017
<mungbean_> do you accept a Â£50 higher bill to fix until 2017
<mungbean_> conundrums
<mungbean_> what price rise will we see otherwise next yr and yr after
<davmor2> mungbean_: it is so easy you simply have to assume that everyone will continue to put up their prices 10% per annum which seems to be the default for the last 3 years, even though the government exclaim not, due to the fact that all the energy providers are price fixing rather than competing :)
<bashrc> the problems with energy prices are not problems which the market will resolve, because they're about geological resources
<mungbean_> no wonder everyone is stressed
<mungbean_> every year there's thing hassle
<mungbean_> not to mention ISAs
<bashrc> see the decline of north sea oil and gas
<bashrc> there is a Great Hope for fracking
<bashrc> so it's a tricky predicament all round
<davmor2> bashrc: yes that's why they are building a new nuclear plant
<bashrc> indeed, although I heard those won't be online until the mid 2020s
<bashrc> the sort term outlook does seem to be continuing 10% per year price increases
<mungbean_> bit the bullet and went EDF via quidco via confused.com
<mungbean_> i think europe pay much higher prices than us
<directhex> i think it varies a lot
<mungbean_> denamrk is certainly high but so is everything there
<directhex> cheapest is estonia
<directhex> most expensive is italy
<directhex> sorry, no
<directhex> denmark is much higher than italy
<directhex> and bulgaria is actually cheapest
<directhex> at any rate, france is cheapest of the "major" european countries
<directhex> tl;dr: nuclear
<directhex> denmark is more than twice the price of france, per unit
<directhex> sweden is most expensive for natural gas (this is electricity i've been talking about)
<mungbean_> you seem to have encyclopaedic knowledge ont he subject
<directhex> http://www.energy.eu/
<mungbean_> i spend all this time on car insurance but it turns out i was getting massively ripped off by halifax on my house insurance
<directhex> it's hard for me to move my house insurance, i have a nonstandard arrangement
<mungbean_> life was never this stressful in the 50s
<mungbean_> ujst had to worry about which shade of grey suit to wear
<diddledan> mungbean_: and the cold war
<mungbean_> nuclear war never happened though
<diddledan> yeah, but that's hindsight
<mungbean_> risk is at laest the same
<mungbean_> right now
<mungbean_> you're only a month away from massive arguments between natinos
<diddledan> yeah, but during the cold war we were only 30 minutes away
<mungbean_> as long as its always 30 mins away its no different
<mungbean_> remember tony blairs infmaous WMD 15 minutes from death allegations
<directhex> wasn't it 40 minutes?
<directhex> it was all made up, of course. tony blair is a war criminal
<mungbean_> yep
<diddledan> he'll never get tried though
<diddledan> nor will bush
<mgdm> 45 minutes, yes
<mungbean_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier
<diddledan> mungbean_: it's entitled that because there's never been any other dossiers in september, right? :-p
<diddledan> wikipedia makes me laugh sometimes. and other times cry
<mungbean_> SuperMatt: u there
<SuperMatt> yup
<diddledan> thankyou drupal/php for a meaningful error message: PHP Fatal error:  Cannot access empty property in /Users/dllewellyn/web/maalox/htdocs/modules/field/field.attach.inc on line 324
<mgdm> diddledan: something probably tried to access $foo->{''}
<mgdm> diddledan: php -r '$f = new stdClass; var_dump($f->{""});'
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> but what. and where?
<mgdm> presumably line 324 in /Users/dllewellyn/web/maalox/htdocs/modules/field/field.attach.inc
<diddledan> I need a stack trace
<mungbean_> SuperMatt: http://www.jobs.qmul.ac.uk/4289 (more OS and OSS software) and also http://www.jobs.qmul.ac.uk/3961 (more hardware oriented)
<diddledan> yeah but that's standard drupal files so it's something I've done elsewhere that's cause it
<diddledan> caused*
<mgdm> if you have xdebug you could clamp a debugger on it abd get it to break on that line
<mgdm> then you can get the stack trace
<diddledan> I guess I need to install xdebug
<SuperMatt> mungbean_: thanks
<SuperMatt> I'll sort out my cv tonight
<bashrc> for command line lovers I made a cv generating tool a while ago https://github.com/fuzzgun/autocv
<mgdm> I used to have my CV in LaTeX, for 1337ness. But last time I wrote one I ust did it in LibreOffice. There comes a point where being technical about it doesn't help :-)
<mungbean_> pdf
<dwatkins> de-facto standard
<directhex> i made my cv in an old version of word, and have been maintining it since OOo 1.x days in OOo/LO
<mgdm> Yeah, it's a .odt, but I sent is as .pdf
<directhex> it's a masterpiece of table-based design
<mgdm> as a friend of mine once sent a CV in .doc and the recruiter basically did s/PHP/.NET/g
<mgdm> and oddly enough didn't interview that well
<directhex> i don't deal with recruiters who want access to the editable version of my CV.
<directhex> fortunately i am at a stage in my career where i have that control
<mungbean_> i got stitched up once
<mungbean_> went for interview and agency told them i was a java developer
<mungbean_> blatantly not a java dev
<mungbean_> he'd inserted it on my cv
<directhex> precisely.
<mungbean_> we both said, lets end the chat here and thanks for the coffee
<directhex> i'll take suggestions, and make changes to tailor a per-job cv. but i won't let them do it for me.
<mgdm> mungbean_: and hopefully the recruiter got fired
<mungbean_> recruiters are prety much unregulated
<mungbean_> i had 2 job offers on the table once, and agency A got a disgruntled ex epmployee to call me to tell me why i should take the other job
<mungbean_> i took the job with agency B and the agency A job folded in 3 months (was a .com)
<SuperMatt> mgdm: My plan is to get my linkedin profile up to scratch, then export it, scrape the information and reformat it the way I like
<mungbean_> anyone used the planner gantt chart software?
<mungbean_> i can't seem to choose a different start date for a task
<AlanBell> mungbean_: yes, I have
<AlanBell> is it dependent on something else?
<mungbean_> meh, works now
<mungbean_> i had to chang ethe subtasks
<mungbean_> rather than the daddy task
<mungbean_> any idea how to add labels to the gannt?
<AlanBell> yeah, phases take their dates from the children
<AlanBell> you can assign resources to tasks
<AlanBell> that makes lables, if you abuse it :)
<AlanBell> I made a system once that exports in the planner XML format
<mungbean_> i see
<mungbean_> wonder if there's a chrome app that does this better
<mungbean_> not that its too bad
<AlanBell> there probably is, planner is pretty much abandonned, but it kind of does the job (and has a fairly sane file format)
<mungbean_> shame about the monotonous colours
<davmor2> popey: in about 20minutes on a Saucy box can you install steam please I know your heart will be broken at having to check it during work time :)
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> in 20 minutes?
<davmor2> diddledan: yeap LP takes between 11-15 minutes to copy a package hence saying 20 to ensure it had copied across :D
<diddledan> oh right, you want to get it installed via the software centre rather than direct from steampowered.com?
<davmor2> diddledan: yes :)  just ported it to saucy and I want to be sure it works as expected, I know popey has a steam account hence asking him :)
<dwatkins> ooh, netflix has an html5 option
<awilkins> !
<awilkins> Netflix html5!
<awilkins> You mean... no Silverlight?
 * awilkins has to try this
<awilkins> Boo, IE11 only
<directhex> html5*
<directhex> (* requires DRM)
<directhex> i mean, technically, that's within spec. html explicitly does not define an acceptable codec or codec suite for video tags
<directhex> so "WMV WITH DRM :D" is within spec
<directhex> just as much as indeo5 or sorrenson3 are
<shauno> seems to defy the point of not using silverlight though
<directhex> shauno, depends on what you think the point is of "not using silverlight"
<directhex> the point for netflix may not be the point you want
<shauno> I guess I can't see any driver other than getting rid of a dependency
<directhex> silverlight sucks on touchscreens
<directhex> and IE11 means Windows RT, too
<Laney> czajkowski: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mattbellassai/costumes-that-prove-pugs-always-win-at-halloween
<zleap> was someone asking about how to set up a flash disk the other day using unetbootin
<czajkowski> Laney: it's so true!
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-24
<SuperMatt> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Development Information Day! :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's the little audio settings widget called on the top bar? It has a bug. On Saucy if I mute, then come back later and un-mute, the icon itself stays in the muted image.
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, I think that'll be indicator-sound
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone else confirm what I'm seeing?
<SuperMatt> that's the one
<SuperMatt> TheOpenSourcerer: I've seen similar things
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: how did you mute?
<SuperMatt> I've got a weird bug right now. When using spdif out, the volume starts up AT FULL until I turn it down
<TheOpenSourcerer> Click the word "mute"
<popey> i clicked mute and it still shows the sound icon thing
<popey> i have two audio devices, wonder if that's why
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, it grey's out and you get the "x" next to the speaker icon.
<popey> and mute button on KB doesn't change the icon either
<popey> want me to file a bug?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Repeatedly muting and unmuting seems to get the icon to change correctly but it's not consistent.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah sure popey
<popey> kk
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty
<Laney> There's a bug where it gets stuck sometimes
<Laney> killing unity-panel-service and letting it respawn fixes it for me
<popey> bug 1244114
<lubotu3> bug 1244114 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Sound indicator icon doesn't consistently show muted state when muted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1244114
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the one.
<JamesTait> I can't reproduce it.
<dvrr> hiiiiiiiiiiiii
<dwatkins> Today I learned a new software term: "ship blocker"
<mungbean_> how can i see g+ posts i have commented on?
<SuperMatt> mungbean_: I'm just getting my CV checked out by somemone. Do I need a covering letter?
<mungbean_> hmmm SuperMatt i haven't gone through this proces in a while, so its prob different now
<mungbean_> i think its via online application form and cv.
<SuperMatt> cool
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean_> guys
<mungbean_> is this a piece of fiction? https://plus.google.com/103470457057356043365/posts/9fyh5R9v2Ga
<mungbean_> sounds like it
<mungbean_> heh, i notice sadfl has commented on it
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. Dell's website claims you can't order the XPS13 online anymore.. preparing for a refresh?
<brobostigon> like selling off the nexus4 cheap, in prep for selling the nexus5, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah, possibly
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: speaking of which.. ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: you bought one?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Is the Nexus 5 out?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: all but announced basiclly, yes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I want to order it!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and you can afford it? however much it will cost.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: rumours are $350-$399, that's *cheap* for a good smart phone
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've saved up enough money in the past 2 years of Galaxy Nexus ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :) very true, i thought the original nexus4 price was good aswell.
<davmor2> Morning all
<DJones> I wonder how long the Nexus branding will continue, we've got N4, N7, N10, N5 is due out, as a guess (on recent naming policies) N6 will have a 6" screen and at that size would more of a phablet than a phone or tablet, where do they go with phone names after that, an N8 with an 8" screen is getting seriously too big for a phone
<DJones> Will Google Glass be a N0.5 for the 1/2 inch screen :)
<penguin42> DJones: What was the name of the guy in Blade runner who made the Nexus series eyes?
<DJones> There was certainly a Nexus 6 reference in Bladerunner
<penguin42> hm 'Chew' apparently
<popey> Hannibal Chew
<penguin42> hmm may not be that great a naming scheme, but for 'what I've seen with your eyes...'
 * DJones ponders a remake of the classic horror, "The hills have google eyes"
<MartijnVdS> googly eyes?
<directhex> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/4735431_700b.jpg
<SuperMatt> mungbean_: submitted
<DJones> Heh, just saw this mentioned www.php.net is being blocked by Google Chrome for containing malware
<MartijnVdS> it is
<MartijnVdS> also by firefox
<DJones> http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://php.net/&hl=en
<DJones> Thats not a good thing to happen
<MartijnVdS> DJones: probably some leaky PHP code :P
<SuperMatt> ouchy
<SuperMatt> can we now start ditching php?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: maybe
<MartijnVdS> http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/webmasters/puLmvjtK0m8/8zxOCgZvyPEJ
<MartijnVdS> it's real
<mungbean_> SuperMatt: \o/
<mungbean_> bought a server from ibm and it came in parts o_O
<mungbean_> i mean, had to install CPU, ram, raid card, pcie riser, 10gb eth, disks.
<penguin42> mungbean_: Yeh you get the base thing and all the addons
<mungbean_> something went wrong somewhere, i'm sure customer doesn't install this
<directhex> mungbean_, "system integration" is a line item, maybe?
<mungbean_> thats why you get ripped off by a reseller
<naya> i'm new here
<popey> hello naya
<mungbean_> dell servers ftw
<naya> hey
<naya> i've been out of ubuntu for a while
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: IBM has an army of servicepeople to do that,right?
<MartijnVdS> naya: welcome back then :)
<naya> thanks
<mungbean_> i thought some of the items i instaled were not customer installable
<mungbean_> how can they validate the new server is working oterhwise
<naya> can i get help here?
<mungbean_> of course naya whats up
<naya> i mean with configuration stuff?
<popey> you can drive to mungbean_'s place and setup a server â»
<popey> (I kid)
<mungbean_> awww
<naya> i use Toshiba Satellite L775 but my keyboard does not work when the system boots
<naya> i'm using the life CD now.
<penguin42> naya: When you say the keyboard doesn't work - is that the only thing that doesn't work?
<penguin42> naya: i.e does the mouse move? Or an external keyboard work?
<naya> oh yea right the touchpad doesn't either.
<naya> i don't have an external mouse or keyboard.
<penguin42> naya: OK, so what makes you think it's the keyboard that's failing as opposed to the whole machine being dead?
<naya> because when i use the onscreen keyboard i'm able to log in and that's it
<dwatkins> in German, "na ja" means "well, yeah"
<penguin42> naya: You mean touchscreen?
<naya> onscreen keyboard i mean.
<penguin42> naya: OK, that's interesting - I had heard of other people who had keyboards that didn't work
<naya> ok?
<penguin42> naya: I'm not sure what to suggest, I would file a bug, which version of Ubuntu are you using - and if you can borrow an external keyboard I'd try it
<naya> 12.04
<naya> LTS
<naya> penguin24: and i'm gonna get and external keyboard and mouse
<penguin42> naya: ok, is this 12.04.3 ?
<naya> penguin42: yea it is
<penguin42> naya: OK, so other things to try - and I don't know if any of these will help; 1) Try the latest 13.10 release just to see if it works  2) Try an old release like 10.04
<penguin42> naya: But also, if you can do a bug report against 'linux' and mention the bug number here I'll try and see if I can spot anything obvious in the logs
<naya> penguin42: ok thanks
<naya> penguin42: i'll try the different versions first!
<penguin42> naya: If the 12.04 live CD works you can also try installation from say 12.04.1 or switching the hardware enablemenet pack to 12.04.1 or 12.04.2 - that wouldn't need a reinstall
<mungbean_> shuttleworth appears to have 2 G+ accounts
<penguin42> a work one and a private one?
<jussi> mungbean_: I have 4....
<penguin42> that's pretty common thing to do
<mungbean_> 2k followers on one, and 4k followers on other
<naya> penguin42: ok!
<jussi> mungbean_: yeah, one is for the unity and mir lovers, the other for haters - Ill let you decide which is which :P
<ali1234> i broke launchpad :/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: awesome
<ali1234> upload a package to a ppa, then delete it, then upload it again
<ali1234> now i have pending builds on my ppa which contains now packages, because the packages are all pending for deletion
<jussi> ali1234: well done! :D
 * popey dug 3 suits out of the cupboard, and they all "fit" (ish)
<popey> handy for bigcalm's wedding tomorrow
<MartijnVdS> popey: so you can "superman rip" out of 2 suits during the course of the wedding? :)
<popey> hah
<popey> https://twitter.com/search?q=Ubuntu%20is%20a%20community%20developed%20operating%20system%20that%20is%20perfect%20for%20laptops%2C%20desktops%20and%20server&src=typd&f=realtime
<popey> why do those twitter accounts exist
<penguin42> is there live coverage on here?
<popey> many look like generated names
<popey> but they are tweeting many of the same pieces of text
<MartijnVdS> Search engine optimizers?
<popey> I can't fathom what the benefit is, given they aren't tweeting links
<MartijnVdS> maybe it makes the accounts seem more "legit" to Twitter's spam-detect robot
<MartijnVdS> so once they start spamming, they don't get blocked as quickly
<popey> https://twitter.com/windroadkbKhoko/status/393395714249588736 probably explains it
<ali1234> why do any twitter accounts exist?
<mungbean_> i understand certain use cases
<mungbean_> not for me though
<mungbean_> bloke who invented twitter sis its to express any info you want anywhere without constraint. except 140 chars
<ali1234> trololol :D
<diddledan> ali1234: quit trolling
<davmor2> diddledan: maybe we should have the government introduce interwebz trolling tax,  of course most of us would be bankrupt by the end of the month :D
<diddledan> I'd be bankrupt after the first hour
<naya> poivy on ubuntu 12.04
<naya> any ideas?
<popey> naya: https://www.poivy.com/download has a link to sign up to get the linux version
<naya> popey: really? i check didn't see that though
<naya> but i'm gonna get back to u.
<naya> cheers!
<naya> popey: i can only use the websignup version not a standalone application!
<popey> poivy just looks like a sip provider
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/126408/is-there-any-software-like-voipgain-megavoip-poivy
<penguin42> anyone tried Mozilla's togetherJS stuff?
<penguin42> e.g. https://togetherjs.com/examples/drawing/
<ali1234> anyone got an awk oneliner that turns scp syntax into ssh syntax?
<penguin42> not sure it's that trivial, I know of at least differences in -P to -p and scp is fussier over the placement
<penguin42> but not sure of other differences
<ali1234> well basically i just need to turn 'user@host:/path/to/file' into 'user@host -c "cat /path/to/file"'
<ali1234> this can't be all that hard... it might not be perfect but it's good enough
<ali1234> maybe i can do it with sedactually
<ali1234> just replace first :
<ali1234> and stick a " on the end
<ali1234> yeah that should work
<ali1234> can i untar to a series of pipes?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: *to* a pipe? unlikely.
<MartijnVdS> you can untar *from* one, or tar *to* one, no problem
<ali1234> eg for each file in a tar file, pipe it to md5sum > $filename.md5
<MartijnVdS>      --to-command=COMMAND
<MartijnVdS>            pipe extracted files to another program
<MartijnVdS> ^ from "man tar"
<ali1234> awesome
<MartijnVdS> I don't know if that pipes it as one big blob though
<MartijnVdS> or as separate files
<ali1234> yeha i don't want it to
<ali1234> http://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_node/Writing-to-an-External-Program.html#SEC84
<MartijnVdS> shiny
<ali1234> exactly what i need :)
<MartijnVdS> Wow, another batch of security updates
<MartijnVdS> was there some kind of backlog?
<davmor2> http://www.kulfoto.com/funny-pictures/52288/librarian-humor-na-na-na-batman  I'll just leave that here
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ...
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: put a smile on my face so thought I'd share it :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I've sent it on to a librarian I know :)
<davmor2> haha
<MartijnVdS> http://open.spotify.com/album/1aSU7tVnGuKquY8yKCw1jm
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6296712/
<ali1234> for when you have to copy a directory twice using absolutely the minimum amount of bandwidth possible
<penguin42> ali1234: pv ?
<ali1234> pipe viewer, shows throughput on the pipe
<ali1234> this is my final solution instead of using rsync
<penguin42> what was wrong with rsync?
<ali1234> well, the double file thing
<penguin42> double file?
<ali1234> this makes two copies of every file and also writes checksums, while reading each file strictly only once, and writing it strictly only twice
<ali1234> doing the same with rsync would mean multiple reads of each file
<ali1234> i don't have time fo that
<penguin42> why multiple reads?
<ali1234> rsync it to make copy 1
<ali1234> that's 1 read/1write
<ali1234> then rsync it again to make copy 2, that's another 1 read and 1 write
<ali1234> then md5sum it all, that's another read
<penguin42> oh you're wanting double copies
<ali1234> = 3 reads, 2 writes
<ali1234> this does the whole thing in one step, thus it's optimal i think
<ali1234> not sure how much overhead tar and ssh will create, probably not much though
<ali1234> turns out my laptop doesn't actually have gigabit ethernet, so that's will be the limiting factor
<ali1234> i need to test this with spaces in the file names
 * popey hopes bigcalm gets a good nights sleep
<penguin42> popey: You've not tied him naked to a lamppost with cat5?
<popey> heh
<directhex> cat5 is poor rope
<directhex> doesn't knot well
<AlanBell> I am sure bigcalm will be tucked up in bed nice and early
<AlanBell> Hayley might not be though :)
<AlanBell> Anyone know lots about VAT? DJones?http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2013/10/crowdfunding-and-vat/
<bigcalm> I've just got back from the venue. Some joint decorating while we're still aloud to see each other
<bigcalm> I'm now on my own and unlikely to sleep
<penguin42> well, you shouldn't be sleeping tomorrow....
<bigcalm> Today?
<bigcalm> T - 14 hours 46 mins
<penguin42> ah very civilised, no rush
<bigcalm> It's 00:45, not a civilised hour I'd say
<penguin42> but 2-3pm will be
<bigcalm> 3.30pm
<bigcalm> I will be back at the venue at 10am though to continue setting up
<bigcalm> Maybe watching TV in bed will help
<bigcalm> Night peeps :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-25
<penguin42> good luck
<DJones> AlanBell: Looking at the question, I think its a bag of worms, there's all sorts of issues, eg where is the organisation starting the crowdfund based, if not uk, then taxes would probably depend on their own countries requirements which if taxed (in the form of VAT in Europe) could mean you'd have to make special claims to get it back, HMRC could argue that even if VAT wasn't charged (eg a product that comes from the US) that an import duty ...
<DJones> ... could be payable at point of import into the UK, then there's the whole argument of whether its a donation/gift or purchase etc
<MartijnVdS> time to lawyer up!
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, bag of worms is my guess too
<AlanBell> I think it means that crowdfunding is a terrible way to do business to business fundraising/pre-orders
<AlanBell> and I am surprised it isn't something that has been discussed to death already
<DJones> For the Canonical example with the phone, where are they registered? I thought it was the Isle of Man, where UK vat laws don't apply (which may be why they weren't going to issue vat invoices)
<DJones> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/viommanual/viom01000.htm UK VAT law does not apply in the IOM but the tax is chargeable under Manx law which generally parallels UK legislation. VAT is collected in the IOM under the Value Added Tax Act 1996 (of Tynwald). No idea how you'd recover that as a UK business though
<AlanBell> they are registered in the UK now
<AlanBell> Register Office: 5th Floor, Blue Fin Building, 110 Southwark Street, London SE1 0SU
<AlanBell> Company Number: 6870835
<popey> we have more than one company in the group
<AlanBell> and they did say that VAT and import duty was included in the price
<AlanBell> and this isn't really about that specific example
<DJones> IN general for a UK organisation they would have to provide a vat invoice "If you are registered for VAT you must give any VAT-registered customers a VAT invoice for any standard-rated or reduced-rated goods or services you sell them."
<AlanBell> I am mainly considering the simple case of a UK VAT registered company doing a crowdfunding that looks like pre-orders and another UK vat registered company looking to take part
<AlanBell> yeah, but is it a sale of goods?
<DJones> Thats the "iffy" area
<AlanBell> and how does the offshore funding platform help/hinder the situation?
<AlanBell> I think for the low value "name on a website" rewards it looks more like a kind of donation rather than a product sale
<AlanBell> and to an extent the high value "come and have dinner with the team" type rewards don't look like product sales
<DJones> Yeah, I'd agree with that as a principle, however name on website could be argued as a form of advertising by HMRC
<AlanBell> true enough. Some are "give us Â£10 for our eternal gratitude" which is probably a better example
<DJones> The low value could be argued as an investment and not income, with product in return as a sale of goods (by HMRC)
<SuperMatt> morning all
<AlanBell> I am not sure that it could be considered an investment
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<DJones> To be honest, I think it would need a VAT specialist on a project by project basis, generally, a donation to a taxable business of any kind is still treated as income from a tax position, so I'd expect the same process to follow through to a vat position, but this the UK, we don't exactly have joined up thinking in tax regulations
<popey> http://www.chrisjonesblog.com/2013/06/are-you-breaking-the-law-by-running-a-crowdfunding-campaign-and-not-declaring-your-income.html
<AlanBell> yeah, if I was running a campaign I would pay for a VAT specialist and contact HMRC
<DJones> Yeah, thats pretty much my expectations of the situation, the complication is non-uk crowdfunding organisations and import duties on product sent from overseas
<AlanBell> I have a feeling that it is a sale, but not a purchase
<AlanBell> or maybe the "perk" is the thing that is sold, not the hardware it may or may not contain
<DJones> AlanBell: I'd start with the VAT specialist and let them contact HMRC, their initial will view will just be pay us the money, and then expect you to jump through flaming hoops while carrying a glass of petrol while performing a triple summersault with your lawyer and vat specialist sitting on your shoulder before they'd even come back and say no & make you appeal to higher courts, EU regulaters etc
<AlanBell> in which case they should provide VAT receipts
<DJones> (Not that they'd make things difficult)
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, that seems likely, I just don't really want to go to the EU to reclaim Â£70 or so :)
<DJones> Yeah, the advice fee's would probably in the 10's if not 100's of thousands of Â£ anyway
<DJones> Are there any uk based crowdfunding organisations, maybe they have specific advice on their websites
<popey> peoplefund.it
<AlanBell> http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk
<AlanBell> they seem to be B2C focussed
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_crowd_funding_services
<AlanBell> I am astonished that there is no discussion of VAT in the information for projects
<DJones> That does surprise me, also doesn't seem to be any advice on HMRC website either
<AlanBell> indeed, there is a bit about public subscription, but nothing product related
<DJones> I guess the idea is so recent that there are legal cases/disputes going through the courts/tribunals and they're just not giving and advice until there's a result in one of those
<AlanBell> various monuments and buildings were funded through public subscription, which is the old form of crowdfunding, but there was no product-like reward
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-10-24/crowd-funding-sites-using-loans-face-capital-rules-in-u-dot-k-dot-plan
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: well, except for the finished building
<AlanBell> I would have thought that there would be some startups that are not registered, seek Â£20,000 in funding and get Â£100,000 putting them over the limit and meaning they need to apply VAT halfway through the funding drive
<AlanBell> and seeing as they have not incurred any cost of goods at the time the sales happen that increases the oddness
<mungbean_>  do you guys change vm_swappiness for your desktops?
<mungbean_> or keep the defaults?
<AlanBell> someone cleverer than me set the default
<mungbean_> its a generic setting though. when one size fits all, sometimes no size fits
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: I want to decrease swappiness on my VPS
<mungbean_> "The default setting in Ubuntu is swappiness=60. Reducing the default value of swappiness will probably improve overall performance for a typical Ubuntu desktop installation. A value of swappiness=10 is recommended"
<ali1234> recommended by whom?
<TheOpenSourcerer> just FYI http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/10/hackers-compromise-official-php-website-infect-visitors-with-malware/
<mungbean_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq#What_is_swappiness_and_how_do_I_change_it.3F
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds like the malware didn't bet that far.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy (or should that be grumpy?) Sourest Day! :-D
<mungbean_> why is there a giant picture of a tongue?
<mungbean_> i get that problem on my tongue after eating kiwi fruit or pineapple
<DJones> This is an interesting idea http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24490331
<DJones> However people like new/shiny every year or so, so unless you're regularly cack handed, you're more likely to replace a phone because its not "the latest model" long before a component breaks (I'm excluding screens in that thought)
 * mungbean_ looks at his 3+ year old phone
<shauno> I gotta admit, it looks kinda silly to me
<DJones> I can see it making sense, possibly also gives a way of having upgradable phones
<Myrtti> hmmm
<Myrtti> Forced looks like a great game on a quick glance
<FlyingGuy3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwPC7vV3s6s
<DJones> I think that may be in the wrong channel
<Myrtti> FlyingGuy3: a bit random?
<mungbean_> trying out a cool dashboard software called dashing http://dashingdemo.herokuapp.com/sample
<mungbean_> aside from teh windows8 feel, its quite nifty
<ali1234> it chugs a bit
<FlyingGuy3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-o3CJytIPE
<ali1234> is it supposed to freeze for 2 seconds every 3 seconds?
<Myrtti> FlyingGuy3: still more random?
<DJones> FlyingGuy3: You realise this is an Ubuntu support & discussion channel?
<mungbean_> ali1234: the dash? no
<mungbean_> but the "fake" data changes every 2 seconds
<mungbean_> so maybe thats your interpretation
<mungbean_> you can send messages to it via curl
<mungbean_> nice for oggcamp type twitter thing on teh side
<shauno> that phone thing .. looks like they're breaking out a lot of functionality that's usually all provided by one chip (eg, wifi & bluetooth as seperate modules?)
<DJones> shauno: Appears so, wonder whether that increases/decreases manufacturing cost, makes things simpler so theoretically cheaper, but more construction/casing needed so more expensive
<shauno> and making the phone twice as big as it needs to be because there's a new subchassis for each and every trick
<ali1234> it doesn't make things simpler
<ali1234> the block with the display in it will cost the same as a regular mobile phone, and so will the one with the main cpu
<ali1234> the other blocks would cost $50-$100
<ali1234> except bluetooth, that would cost probably $10
<shauno> the actual circuit board in an iphone looks like a naked usb stick.  the fact that they're so heavily integrated is the only reason they fit in our pockets
<gordonjcp> the "lego block" phone is a fundamentally stupid idea
<gordonjcp> how are you actually going to connect the blocks?
<shauno> I wouldn't say stupid, just naive.  it seems like a perfectly logical thought process for someone who has no idea what's in there
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<bashrc> I notice that Final Term now has multiple tabs.  Still not ready for prime time though
<arc__> hello i have a problem after i used boot-repair to access ubuntu i now can't get back into windows
<arc__> i need help plz
<arc__> cam
<dwatkins> !grub
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<dwatkins> that might help, arc__
<dwatkins> I appreciate it's the opposite way around, but the second link may be useful
<arc__> ok but boot-repair somehow deleted my xp system boot files
<dwatkins> does the partition still exist on which XP is located, arc__?
<arc__> yes
<dwatkins> what version of Ubuntu are you using, arc__?
<arc__> ubuntu 12.04 lts
<dwatkins> I suggest running 'sudo update-grub2'
<dwatkins> It should search for existing linux kernels and other operating systems and update the menu accordingly.
<dwatkins> check your /boot/grub/grub.cfg file contains a reference to the Windows partition after running it.
<arc__> kk
<arc__> yea it does
<dwatkins> and does the menu appear when you reboot and have an entry for Windows XP in it?
<arc__> yes but that was not the problem
<dwatkins> sorry, I misunderstood
<arc__> it was always there
<dwatkins> what happens when you select the option for Windows, then?
<arc__> i get hal.dll is missing or corrupt
<dwatkins> you may need to repair the boot.ini file: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/findbyerrormessage/a/missinghaldll.htm
<davmor2> Morning all
<directhex> boot.ini is for old versions of windows
<directhex> i.e. 5.x
<arc__> includeing xp
<arc__> xp is still supported for now :)
<directhex> man, 2001. what was i doing in 2001?
<directhex> i was... 17? so i think "lots of sex" was a major factor
<diddledan> I never got around to the "lots of sex"
<directhex> i also remember hounding the IT people at uni to find out when XP would be made available gratis to students
<directhex> still, a lifetime ago
<diddledan> what?!
<diddledan> xp.. gratis?!
<directhex> MSDNAA
<directhex> for comparison, when XP released, so did Red Hat 7.2 and SuSE 7.3
<diddledan> more to the point: you wanted windows?!
<mungbean_> this is irc. nobody ever had lots of sex in here.
<shauno> free stuff > no stuff ;)
<directhex> Debian 2.2 was still the latest, due to the length of the 3.0 freeze
<mungbean_> except maybe bigcalm tonight
<directhex> when i was an undergrad, i was the windows guy in my house
<mungbean_> in 2001 redhat disk set cost Â£30
<directhex> until around 3rd year
<mungbean_> or was in 1999
<shauno> I was gonna say I'm sure I didn't pay 30 quid for redhat, but then I realised the book it came 'free' with (RH unleashed?) probably cost more than that
<mgdm> I got a copy of RH5.2 from someone in about 1998, but instead of doing an image of it and copying it the 'correct' way, he copied and pasted all the files
<mgdm> vmlinu~1.z etc
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: Well, umsdos ;)
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT_filesystem_and_Linux#Data_structures_of_umsdos
<shauno> books & magazine covers were my primary way to obtain my 'fix' until I came across mr winters / linuxemporium
<MartijnVdS> I downloaded Slackware floppies over ISDN
<diddledan> linuxemporium was awesome back around the minellium
<mungbean_> i went to a shop in cannon st london and bought the 6 disc set of 5.1
<mungbean_> good old days
<diddledan> my dad bought the boxed-set of suse 6.smth
<directhex> i didn't use linux, beyond early trials. it sucked
<directhex> who would pick linux when beos was so much superior?
<mungbean_> :-|
<gordonjcp> directhex: totally
<diddledan> beos never had any support for anything useful (apps)
<gordonjcp> directhex: and now you can use Haiku
<mungbean_> i needed a web proxy for the company
<MartijnVdS> I messed up my slackware within the year, because I didn't know what I was doing when they went from libc5 -> 6
<directhex> diddledan, pfft, minor detail.
<mungbean_> everyone was surfing for smut rather openly
<diddledan> directhex: it did video, greatguns, though
<MartijnVdS> 2.0.30 baby 8-)
<directhex> all the best OSes have no apps. see also webos!
<shauno> this might be interesting to one or two in here .. point-of-sale with rPi & openerp - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/opensource-your-shop
<mungbean_> i remember my boss saying one friday afternoon, mungbean_ can you relax the filter a bit as i feel like surfing for some filth
<diddledan> mungbean_: that's a good boss
<mungbean_> whats a bad boss?
<diddledan> mungbean_: the one that tells you off for surfing for some filfth
<diddledan> filth**
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: one who looks in the company proxy logs, sees people browsing for porn, and reconfigures the proxy to filter "sex"
<diddledan> where'd that f come from?!
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: so when there's a news story with "gasexplosion" in the title.. blocked
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: from "fifth"?
<diddledan> I love that essex university regularly featured in blockings
<shauno> I didn't have X until 2002-3 .. I was introduced to the net sans-filth
<diddledan> I really want to be part of the GA Sex-Plosion!
<diddledan> GA= generally available?
<diddledan> sex-plosion I'm assuming is .. well .. orgasmic
<shauno> put your pants on dan, it's way too early for this
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> isitfriday.net
<mungbean_> this was a company where on my first day, my boss was looking at a website about an alleged couple who chopped up a robber and posted photos, then a stripper came into the office in the afternoon
<mungbean_> cos it was a blokes birthday
<mungbean_> first day of my first job o_O
<mungbean_> i thought is this what working life is all about?
<directhex> sounds like an immensely hostile environment for anyone who isn't an over-sexed, unprofessional male
<mungbean_> lots of bullying
<mungbean_> i avoded it by not engaging with the monkeys on the trading floor
<mungbean_> it was a bit like school
<mungbean_> don't get noticed by the bully and don't let him think you are annoyed
<directhex> sounds like an immensely hostile environment for anyone who isn't an over-sexed, unprofessional male
<bashrc> I don't think I'd last in a job like that
<TheOpenSourcerer> pah that's nothing mungbean_
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oldschool - bondage in the boardroom
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> On that note time to wander into town and get a much needed haircut.
<mungbean_> something for the weekend sir?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<mungbean_> bashrc: my friend went to work for the petroleum exchange and lasted one day
<mungbean_> got relentlessly bullied as a form of "initiation"
<mungbean_> different job tho. at the other place i was there to make the IT systems work and didn't engage with the muppets,
<mungbean_> getting the features unlocked on an IBM server is tedious. not really sure what the point of not giving all features to everyone is
<mungbean_> its all there in hardware.
<BigRedS> don't they charge you for the unlocking?
<mungbean_> yes
<mungbean_> but the administration of it all seems hardly worth it
<mungbean_> they are giving us capable hardware, just crippled by choice
<mungbean_> seems loony
<bashrc> some salesperson's idea
<shauno> that's hardly unusual.  lets them tier pricing so people who want more, pay more, but without raising their production costs to match
<mungbean_> if the functinoality is there they should just give it rather than attemping to profiteer
<mungbean_> maybe i'm just old fashioned
<shauno> so just charge everyone the top-tier price instead of disabling features for people who'd rather pay less?
<brobostigon> george osborne when he is on the news, he always looks like he has something stuck somewhere where something shouldnt be stuck. funny really.
<bashrc> I agree.  That kind of disabled hardware is a slimy sales practice which has gone on for a long time
<mungbean_> intel were thinking of doing it with processors too i think?
<ali1234567> Did anyone see the royal baby photo on the papers this morning?
<bashrc> I try to avoid royal baby photos
<brobostigon> total non-news.
<mungbean_> i try to avoid papers
<brobostigon> i read private eye.
<ali1234567> William attemping to smile but it looks like the baby poop in his hand or something
<ali1234567> Terrible photo
<bashrc> I used to read private eye until the recycled jokes became tedious
<brobostigon> bashrc: i find it better than most papers, i tend to only buy traditional papers for the puzzles and dont really read them, however i read private eye.
<shauno> intel have been doing it for years, just using resistors on the outside of the chip itself to define the featureset
<ali1234567> Amd too
<ali1234567> And nvidia for thatmatter
<shauno> but, eg, should rPi raise their prices across the board? or are you okay with them selling licence keys for the hardware codecs seperately?
<brobostigon> giving choice is a good thing, rather than taking choice away from people.
<mungbean_> depends if the minimum price is below the cost of production
<mungbean_> i,.e. can they afford to sell them all at the lowest price, considering they are selling the hardware with all the features already in it
<TheOpenSourcerer> This, if accurate, is just jaw droppingly bad: http://www.bishopfox.com/blog/2013/10/linkedin-intro/
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: is that the mitm-email-thingy?
<MartijnVdS> I hope it dies a quick death
<shauno> I've been praying for linkedin's demise for years.  no joy so far
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/1p2m1b/linkedin_mitm_attack_wrapped_as_a_mobile_app/
<shauno> does it affect outbound mail?  wondering if my spamfilter that just junks anything from them would match people who relay their mail through them too
<ali1234567> Shauno: the rPi should be fully open hardware even if the price goes up
<ali1234567> The license key stuff is far from the worst thing that could be hidden in that blob
<ali1234567> And dont guve me any of that "open hardware is impossible" stuff -uzebox?
<penguin42> shauno: Not from what I read, it's an inline imap proxy
<penguin42> shauno: I guess maybe if they're sending via imap?
<shauno> that bishopfox link has "be aware that outgoing emails receive an additional signature" .. that smells of it being both directions
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some info at the bottom of this page: http://engineering.linkedin.com/mobile/linkedin-intro-doing-impossible-ios but that still really, really, sucks.
<penguin42> shauno: Hmm fair enough
<diddledan> how is that any different to using gmail?
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Usernames, passwords, OAuth tokens, and email contents are not *permanently* stored anywhere inside LinkedIn data centers. "... define permanent vs temporary.
<ali1234567> If you set up a mail account on symbian phone all your emails go through nokias push server
<ali1234567> You can see it logging in to your gmail on the activity page
<shauno> diddledan: easy answer, I don't use gmail either
<diddledan> shauno: how is it any different to using your vps?
<diddledan> it's still effectively in someone else's control
<ali1234567> Quite. Which is why crying about gmail is silly
<ali1234567> It is no better or worse than anything else
<shauno> I don't mind my vps because I can up & move somewhere else relatively easily
<mungbean_> definition of lazy is knowing i have to wash up my glass but only doing it 1 minute before using it rather than after using it. still the same number of washings but i can never do it :(
<jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh well, all your emails go to other mail servers anyway.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes but they tend not to be "injected".
<mungbean_> the question is why??
<TheOpenSourcerer> So they can recommend new contacts for you ;-)
<Svetlana> Maintaining my own server. A horrid thought. (fastmail.fm is so useful, compared to that; you can make aliases and discard them at will, and for the main one, it's sufficiently rich-featured.)
<TheOpenSourcerer> As if you haven't got enough already!
<ali1234567> It's easy to move of gmail. The only thing stopping me is there is nothing even close to as good
<mungbean_> zimbra v9
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXaKplOCAAAyxbU.jpg:large
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or zentyal
<mungbean_> my zimbra server served 250 users with 0 seconds of unscheduled downtime over 4 years
<mungbean_> the only scheduled downtimes were small updates or major upgrades which went smoothly
<TheOpenSourcerer> I live in Golf Courses :-)
<shauno> by that account, I've lived in winter, buckfast, rain, and I'm now "complicated".  no wonder I don't miss the UK that much :)
<jussi> Ive lived in the "Its complicated" part of that map, which incidentally isnt the UK, and if you say it is they get very angry :P :P
<mungbean_> what does london say?
<shauno> bankers, hipsters, riots
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like "Not normal" lol
<mungbean_> should probably have a map of its own
<mungbean_> an englishman, an irishman and a scotsman walk into a bar..
<mungbean_> its freshers week and they are house sharing and  haven't found frineds of their own yet
<mungbean_> did anyone see that programme called freshers with a guy called forrest?
<mungbean_> can't believe his parents named him that after the film.
<Myrtti> YAY HOGWARTS!
<Myrtti> \o/
<mungbean_> random
<Myrtti> not realy.
<Myrtti> realLy.
<dwatkins> Myrtti: I saw this and thought of our conversation yesterday about the "Hello, this is dog!" meme: http://i.imgur.com/5dKd0Zn.jpg
<Myrtti> there is Hogwarts on that map
<dwatkins> apparently at this vets you can get a portrait for $30
<mungbean_> ah, couldnt read all the small print
<mungbean_> is the centre of a choc orange the best bit or the worst bit?
<mungbean_> that crumbly middle bit
<Svetlana> ali1234: https://dukgo.com/help/en_US/features/email
<shauno> speaking of email, 186 emails while I was at lunch.  oops.
<diddledan> what broke?
<mungbean_> funny how guns get discovered every day but never reported, but police disocver a half printed 3d gun and it makes the news
<diddledan> I'd be more worried if the police discover a stash of 2d or maybe 4d guns
<mungbean_> 2d? children drew them on paper?
<diddledan> imagine how easy it would be to conceal a 2d gun
<mungbean_> rub it out with eraser
<diddledan> no more bulky holsters, just wrap it around your leg instead
<mungbean_> aww my spare camera isn't working powershot s45 anyone?
<shauno> I dunno, I'm reading that what they found were actually parts for a printer
<shauno> "The "trigger" identified by police appears to be part of a MakerBot 3D printer designed to extrude 3D-printing plastic to make an object, and the "clip" looks like a part intended to hold spools of plastic."
<mungbean_> lol
<mungbean_> better not try and print that spud gun then
<mungbean_> anyone else get the situation where chrome doesn't respond to left clicks on links?
<dwatkins> only when a key is stuck, mungbean_
<mungbean_> hmm
<mungbean_> restarted browser
<mungbean_> still no worky
<mungbean_> hmm just on vmware site
<Myrtti> dwatkins: http://imgur.com/gallery/2MmvpGR
<dwatkins> haha
<mungbean_> lol
<mungbean_> i love dog face
<Myrtti> doge â¥
<mungbean_> just had to call my insurer to ask them not to auto renew my policy because i'd already got a cheaper policy....with the same insurer.
<bashrc> fail
<diplo> mungbean_: I was told to cancel mine by the sale lady and do it online as I'd get it Â£50 cheaper
<diplo> sales*
<mungbean_> effectively what happened to me
<mungbean_> close but no meerkat
<mungbean_> merrkat price was Â£20 more
<bashrc> simples
<mungbean_> and i already have 2 meerakts
<mungbean_> my dog hates them
<mungbean_> wants to eat them
<mungbean_> squirrels and meerkats are her nemesis
<diplo> I went with Tescos last year, they dropped the price by Â£80 without me pestering them this year, so thought I wouldn;t bother looking around.
<mungbean_> win
<mungbean_> i think car insruance got cheaper this year all round
<mungbean_> got Â£80 cheaper also
<mungbean_> loading esxi 5.5
<mungbean_> \o/
<awilkins> Anyone else getting their notifiers as a weird coloured text box top left, instead of a pretty shaded textbox top right?
<diplo> Can't run my esx server as no aircon and it gets roasting hot :(
<mungbean_> get a new job ;)
<mungbean_> or switch off some old crap
<mungbean_> is this at home or werk?
<diplo> Work, it was an open area, now put a wall in
<diplo> No where for the hot air to escape, it's just getting it organised.. and yes seriously would like a new job :)
<dwatkins> bah, my DVI splitter doesn't work on the Raspberry Pi.
<mungbean_> diplo: are you in bristol?
<mungbean_> i need RES style tagging for irc
<diplo> Well just outside bath but close yeah
<mgdm> I used to have a script for irssi that colourized people's nicks based on a hash of their name or some such
<mungbean_> nickcolor
<mgdm> thassit
<dwatkins> yeah, I use nick_color.pl
<mungbean_> i need to add notes based on a person though
<mungbean_> e.g. barry - likes pies and beer
<dwatkins> you can set custom colours and save them, although it doesn't extend to the adding of an underscore to someone's name...
<diplo> I keep meaning to integrate irssi with notifier, sure I saw something out there at one point
<dwatkins> diplo: yeah, there's a script which calls notifier, although it's a bit old, so might not work with recent ubuntus.
<dwatkins> diplo: http://thorstenl.blogspot.ie/2007/01/thls-irssi-notification-script.html
<diplo> ta
<diplo> That wasn't what I looked at, but may give it a go though
<mungbean_> http://code.google.com/p/irssi-libnotify/
<brobostigon> irssinotifier works well also.
<dwatkins> I did set up a notifier script at one point which used an ssh login to pipe the notifications from my mahcine at home to work.
<mungbean_> LSI webbios, most hideous thing i've ever seen
<mungbean_> looks like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3-0DpFrp48
<mungbean_> designed to make configuring RAID unfathomable by non standard terms
<mungbean_> brobostigon: on android?
<brobostigon> mungbean_: yep.
<mungbean_> how's it with battery?
<diplo> Seems to use Googles notifying system mungbean_ so not any worse than normal alerts
<diplo> From what I've just ready
<diplo> -y
<mungbean_> hmm
<mungbean_> probably be a bit distracting for me
<mungbean_> dekstop alerts easier to ignore
<diplo> Was thinking the same
<Myrtti> I have it on only when I'm away (ie. detached my tmux)
<Myrtti> and not on every channel
<mungbean_> ah clever
<Myrtti> otherwise audible bell is notification enough
<Myrtti> that and the wiggling terminator icon on the bar
<mungbean_> most of my irc convo is frivolous
<mungbean_> about crisps and haribo
<mungbean_> twitter feed for fogies
<dwatkins> mmmm, haribo
<dwatkins> I use Twitter to store my links.
<Myrtti> delicious is for that
<mungbean_> didn't they get hacked and close down?
<mungbean_> maybe it was anothe site. or they had a crash and no backups
<mungbean_> http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/02/19/magnolia-data-is-gone-for-good/
<Myrtti> magnolia
<Myrtti> I used to use that too
<mungbean_> i stopped using bookmarks when chrome nad firefox relegated bookamrks as a concept
<mungbean_> chrome bookmark handling is terrible
<mungbean_> does delicious have one button i can click to store my bookmark privately across all browsers?
<dwatkins> I use bit.ly's browser plugin, perhaps it can also save to other things than Twitter.
<Myrtti> mungbean_: pretty much yeah
<Myrtti> well, not quite but after tweaking a bit yes.
<Myrtti> I'm sure you can set it up to bookmark as private by default
<diplo> Guys any ideas.. python :/
<diplo> select * from table where like param
<diplo> I've tried lots of different variations from stack overflow but they all error out
<diplo> Anyone know the correct syntax
<gordonjcp> diplo: er, what?
<gordonjcp> diplo: definitely not that, anyway
<gordonjcp> diplo: a bit more context would be helpful ;-)
<diplo> That was just trying to explain, not the query. I've been given a few k's worth of images and I'm trying to match products to images to filename
<gordonjcp> can you pastebin what you've tried, *verbatim*?
<diplo> so I am doing a for loop through the filenames and then select * from table where filename like stocknum
<diplo> yeah, I was just thinking the same thin
<diplo> But.. I may have answered my Q whilst typing this, 2 secs :)
<gordonjcp> it *should be something like "select * from table where column like "value";
<penguin42> hang on - is this python or sql?
<diplo> Sorry guys, penguin42 python+mysqldb package and fixed,I'd missed a bloomin comma :/
<mgdm> :D
<mgdm> glad it's not just me that happens to
<diplo> Was coming up with mysql errors but not the whole one, had to debug a bit more to see it :/
<gebbione> anyone knows what might have caused this? http://pastebin.com/AST81hfE
<gebbione> also i am seeing stuff like this Oct 25 18:14:47 bizmate-i7 kernel: [66576.271950] 2:3:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x84
<penguin42> I'd suggest a ram check
<penguin42> looking liking your getting odd things failing
<gebbione> :(
<gebbione> thats what i thought but would like to avoid even thinking about it
<gebbione> such an annoying machine
<gebbione> 2 OCZ sets failed 2 years ago
<gebbione> now i ll have to run a memtest check
<penguin42> one program crashing is a bug, lots of weird stuff crashing is more likely hardware
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: kernel messages is more likely hardware
<MartijnVdS> gebbione: "Cannot get freq at ep 0x84" is USB talk, ep = endpoint
<gebbione> Mhhh ok all i can think of is either the printer (currently off) or maybe my mouse and keyboard
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Look at the errors, one is a seg fault, one is an abort - that the watchdog crashed with a segfault seems very weird
 * penguin42 hasn't heard of a printer causing system problems
<MartijnVdS> Most likely memory, or CPU
<penguin42> or psu
<daftykins> hey all. playing around with installing Ubuntu on a samsung chromebook today XD
<penguin42> daftykins: I was helping a colleague with that the other day - they're quite cute
<daftykins> ah :)
<daftykins> chrubuntu? this is a samsung 5xx
<daftykins> first thing i did was a dist-upgrade though which doesn't seem so wise XD
<penguin42> yeh this was the 'snow' model
<daftykins> i could do with learning how to update all but the kernels and boot related stuffs
<daftykins> any thoughts?
<penguin42> the kernel is a 'special' as I remember - there's a something -chromebook package
<daftykins> ooh
 * penguin42 had to rebuild it for him
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-26
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jpickett> morning
<brobostigon> morning jpickett
<chalcedony> :)
<chalcedony> what's the command to get out of root?
<chalcedony> can't remember my own name today
<brobostigon> exit
<chalcedony> ah right :)
<brobostigon> :)
<chalcedony> knew it wasn't quit
<chalcedony> thank you :)
<brobostigon> youre welcome,
<SuperMatt> so forced is a fun game that works on linux
<SuperMatt> anyone got it? If you don't have it, I'm doing an on air hangout of my playing it (albeit in windows)
<SuperMatt> http://youtu.be/nFMidPKcMLQ
<SuperMatt> oh, and you can play coop
<honey> how to install gdebi
<Guest18179> how to install gdebi
<Guest18179> how to install gdebi
<Guest18179> fuck off
<mgdm> well, language like that won't get you any help
<mungbean_> identify a peice of music, is there a shazam for desktop?
<mungbean_> if anyone can identify the song playing at 56:00 in http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03fh0bg/This_World_No_Sex_Please_Were_Japanese/ that would be awesome++
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: let me check
<mungbean_> \o/
 * mgdm hasn't a clue sadly
<mgdm> nor does Shazam for me :-)
<MartijnVdS> neither does soundhound :)
<MartijnVdS> but it sounds so familiar
<mungbean_> sounds like the notwist or lali puna
<MartijnVdS> I was thinking the xx
<MartijnVdS> time to write a letter to the beeb ;)
<MartijnVdS> some remix of "the xx - unfold"?
 * penguin42 notes that Pick TV has the full length Futurama episode 'Benders Game' on in an hour - I've never seen it, but I can't help but wonder if they purposely put on the weekend Ender's game got released
<MartijnVdS> very likely
<popey> Hello team.
<penguin42> Hey Popey
<gebbione> hi guys how can i check fdisk ?
<gebbione> hi guys how can i check what is using my usb?
<gebbione> o guess with fdisk but cannot find an example
<penguin42> gebbione: Go back a step - what do you mean 'using'?
<gebbione> application locking access to a usb printer for instance? my problem is that i dont see my printer in virtualbox
<gebbione> and the only thing possible is that some other software is not giving access to virtualbox to usb devices
<penguin42> oh I don't know how stuff gets plumbed through into virtualbox - usb plumbing into vm's is quite hairy
<penguin42> I'd probably just set remote networking printing from the vm to the host and leave the printer attached to the host
<gebbione> i just dont get why this was working once and not anymore
<gebbione> :/
<penguin42> gebbione: That's printers for you....
<gebbione> it worked well before
<gebbione> i could just gain access to it from virtualbox
<gebbione> or disable and let the host have it
<zleap> hello
<AlanBell> evening all
<popey> yo
 * AlanBell has been reading all about buildd
<mungbean_> can anyone recommend any projects for my 15yr old nephew. he just wrote a pontoon/21 game in visual basic. i think he should learn more OSSy things :D
<penguin42> mungbean_: Try writing the same game in JS ?
<daubers> Evening
<popey> yo
<AlanBell> popey is full of the yo this evening
<popey> â»
<mungbean_> penguin42: i was thinking of suggesting he make a dashboard for the house with dashing. gather environmental and other data and present them
 * brobostigon has gin a lemonade and biscuits, :)
<penguin42> mungbean_: What's dashing?
<mungbean_> penguin42: http://dashingdemo.herokuapp.com/sample
<daubers> popey is not yo-less then?
 * daubers has "Only you can save mankind" flashbacks
<penguin42> mungbean_: Pretty
<mungbean_> yeah, cos i have an electricity meter thing that i can read data from
<daubers> Trying to get OpenCV and my Pi camera to play, not winning particularly well
<popey> hahah https://plus.google.com/communities/103149369132063111443
<penguin42> do you know any good potters?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-27
<bashrc> 13.10 was going so well, and then unity crashed
<bashrc> with a completely blank screen on boot
<bashrc> pretty much a show stopper
<bashrc> I tried uninstalling and reinstalling ubuntu-desktop and unity, but to no avail
<bashrc> ended up just reinstalling from scratch
<bashrc> ...which takes a long time
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bashrc> morning all
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<bashrc> has anyone experienced Unity crashing on 13.10?
<MartijnV1S> not more or less than other versions
<popey> ditto
<popey> pretty stable here
<MartijnV1S> well, less crashing than SOME versions ;)
<popey> bashrc: what video card?
<MartijnVdS> popey: how's the storm on your side of the water?
<popey> not here yet
<popey> bit windy, but it's not scheduled to get bad till tomorrow I believe
<popey> early morning
<MartijnVdS> We're scheduled for "around noon"
<popey> going to put everything away in the garden
<MartijnVdS> even the webcam
<MartijnVdS> ?
<popey> might setup the camera â»
<popey> or two
<MartijnVdS> Dutch news links to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPQLl5rupg
<popey> â»
<popey> our news keeps showing that too â»
<MartijnVdS> They're expecting a lot of fallen trees, because of the wet ground and top-heavy (with leaves) trees
<SuperEngineer> Local council interviewed on radio yesterday: "to be honest -our preparedness is about dealing with the aftermath".
<MartijnVdS> http://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/cheaper-to-rent-in-barcelona-and-commute-to-london/
<SuperEngineer> preparedness ~ noun    very rare
<SuperEngineer>  1. the state of having been made ready or prepared for use or action (especially military action).  hmmm....
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Not that rare these days
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Maybe it's "preparedness" as in "how do you want your steak?" - very rare
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
<bashrc> looks like I have the same problem again - 13.10 doesn't boot to unity
<bashrc> just a blank screen
<penguin42> bashrc: does ctrl-alt-f2 get you a text console?
<bashrc> that's what I'm in now
<bashrc> emacs/erc
<penguin42> bashrc: you say it doesn't boot to unity - does it give you the login screen?
<bashrc> no
<bashrc> but at installation I chose to log in automatically
<penguin42> ah hmm, so it's a little tricky to know which stage is going wrong
<penguin42> bashrc: I'd check both /var/log/lightdm and /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<bashrc> it obviously doesn'y get as far as unity
<penguin42> right but there's a lot of stuff before then
<bashrc> lightdm.log says it logged to .xsession-errors
<Kaun> Hello
<bashrc> is there any recovery or minimal graphics mode?
<bashrc> I guess I could just work on the commandline indefinitely :)
<bashrc> last entry in lightdm/x-0.log is "loading extension GLX"
<penguin42> bashrc: Look at the dates on the logs - has lightdm's logs got written this time around?
<bashrc> if I try running the last command in lightdm.log I get "software acceleration check failed"
<bashrc> logs look recent
<bashrc> looks like lightdm cannot open the display
<bashrc> I got my screen back.  Yey!
<bashrc> the solution to not booting with a black screen was sudo apt-get remove nvidia*
<bashrc> I think this laptop has two graphics cards, Intel and Nvidia
<penguin42> bashrc: Ah yes that's common, you can normally force them to use precisely one in the bios
<penguin42> bashrc: Which laptop?
<bashrc> lenovo z580
<bashrc> Usually it's using the Intel graphics
<bashrc> will check the bios
<penguin42> bashrc: OK, in the bios you should have a choice between integrated/discrete/optimus, if it does everything you want on intel set the bios to integrated and it'll stick with intel
<bashrc> it may have had something to do with me trying to install opencv, which also installs nvidia-updates
<bashrc> yes, there is a bios option to select Intel only graphics.  Selecting that and removing any nvidia packages fixed the problem
<penguin42> bashrc: OK, watch out - on some machines some outputs need the nvidia (e.g. the w520 vga output only works from the nvidia)
<bashrc> ok.  For now I'm not connecting any external screens though
<bashrc> another success story
<DJones> One for cat lovers everywhere https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/1378726_738874022795087_1399509075_n.jpg <---- popey ?
<popey> haha
<popey> he looks _delighted_ to be there
<penguin42> the look on the cats face is priceless
<DJones> I wondered if it had its claws out holding on
<lornajane> I have suggested more than once to Kevin that he should put the cat in a sling to make room for his laptop on his lap
<lornajane> normally he has the cat and the laptop kinda hanging on at different angles
<popey> http://imgur.com/i3qr5fI
<popey> how salem sits most days
<lornajane> hehe, I don't really tolerate the cat in my office, but then he isn't my cat
<lornajane> mostly he sits immediately outside the office door so I can step over him 80 times a day
<Azelphur> I should get a cat. xD
<AlanBell> chickens > cats
<popey> lies
<SuperEngineer> âº http://www.simonscat.com/
 * penguin42 guesses at least you get the eggs from the chickens
<AlanBell> so, how many raspberry pi devices do you think it would take to build Ubuntu in a reasonable timeframe?
<lornajane> AlanBell: quite a lot!
<penguin42> AlanBell: A heck of a lot - and then I doubt you'd manage to link libreoffice
<AlanBell> they built debian for it
<penguin42> for or on?
<AlanBell> and I am mainly interested in the server side stuff
<AlanBell> penguin42: both, you have to build on the target platform really
<AlanBell> yes, I know about cross compiling, but a buildd has to be the real architecture
<penguin42> AlanBell: Well I'd build on a better ARM than a pi I think if I was building for one
<penguin42> or on qemu
<AlanBell> there isn't a better ARMv6
<AlanBell> not significantly anyhow
<penguin42> AlanBell: The Guruplugs would probably be a lot better - but I don't think there would be a problem building on v7 as long as you were careful with the build setup
<penguin42> (or are guruplugs older....)
<AlanBell> raspberry pis I don't mind getting lots of because I can always use them
<AlanBell> I don't mind getting 20 or 30 pi devices if that is a sensible number to use
<penguin42> AlanBell: http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/21/seneca-uses-guruplug-server-farm-to-build-raspberry-pi-fedora-distribution/
<penguin42> AlanBell: I guess the 512MB ones wouldn't be too bad - and you'd have to think about where you'd do your storage, maybe iscsi or nfs root
<AlanBell> penguin42: that might have been done before you could buy as many pis as you like, it was one per order for quite a while
<AlanBell> I don't think the 1.2 Ghz device is significantly faster than the pi (which can be overclocked a bit)
<penguin42> http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/logs/main/libc/libcmis.log  looks like they're building on mx5's
<penguin42> AlanBell: Do not under estimate just how grim the CPU on a Pi is
<popey> MartijnVdS: https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/394497383930671104
<AlanBell> penguin42: so I throw more at the problem, the point is that I can use pis, so it doesn't matter how many it takes
<popey> i have pondered this in the past too
<popey> considered rebuilding the entire archive on a pi, starting with main
<popey> (under debian)
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'd look for Cortex-A9 based boards, I bet you can find a dual-core A9 board that's more than 4 times the speed of a pi for less than 3 times the cost
 * AlanBell thinks penguin42 isn't getting the point here :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: What could you possibly want that many PIs for?
<penguin42> AlanBell: You're going to need a significant amount of networking/wifi/psu wiring for that many boards
<AlanBell> control units for bluetooth LE sensors
<penguin42> LE?
<AlanBell> bluetooth smart, it is a bit like RFID
<AlanBell> low energy stuff, basically bluetooth dongles that sense tiny tags that go on assets that move about
<AlanBell> and we use raspberry pi devices to listen and send data back to base
<penguin42> AlanBell: OK, I mean sure if you want to do it, do - I suspect you'll hit some problems on the big packages (think more than 1 day link time/out of memory) but you'll manage most packages
<AlanBell> "most packages" is probably fine
<AlanBell> certainly fine for my own use
<AlanBell> currently we use raspbian on them, but it would be mildly nice to have exactly the same package versions of everything on the pi as on other things
<AlanBell> not that raspbian is causing us any problems at all
<penguin42> AlanBell: but you see things like http://www.wandboard.org/   and those things should run a standard ubuntu (maybe need a kernel package)
<AlanBell> but I can use pis, so I can buy as many as I like, because they will get used in production eventually
<penguin42> (what is the collective noun for pis?)
<lornajane> a pickle of pis?
<shauno> a bakery!
<penguin42> lornajane: I like that
<AlanBell> sure, we could use all sorts of other things, but we are using the pi :)
<lornajane> all collective nouns should be aliterative also
<AlanBell> a bramble of raspberry pis
<lornajane> the only real collective noun I could think of starting with P was parliament and that doesn't fit for a Pi
<lornajane> posse?  Hmm
<penguin42> AlanBell: well then I guess you probably could if you have a surfeit of Pis, the trick will be finding out how to cluster them cheaply
<AlanBell> yeah, would need to try to stick to components that can be useful, maybe use wifi for networking
<AlanBell> we could switch to the model A without ethernet anyhow
<popey> well this is interesting
 * popey has a pi booted on his desk with a USB attached SATA disk
<penguin42> AlanBell: Build over wifi - you really are wanting pain aren't you?
<popey> all powered off a portable battery
<AlanBell> oh, that only has 1 usb
<AlanBell> penguin42: they don't have networking when building
<AlanBell> but they do download packages to create the build environment
<penguin42> AlanBell: So you're going to keep each one self contained? The way others are suggesting is to run it as a distcc farm
<popey> hmm, ssd not powering up
<popey> unsurprisingly
<AlanBell> popey: so the ssd in sata enclosure gets power from the battery through a Y lead?
<popey> no, bu i should try that
<popey> if i could find the cabler
<AlanBell> penguin42: I think that is how buildd works, you have lots of builders that build packages
<popey> found it
<popey> hmm, not seen in dmesg
<popey> the blue LED gets brighter when the Y lead is attached
<popey> thats disappointing
<popey> i dont actually think the build time is the biggest issue, it's more patching packages to make them build at all
<AlanBell> yeah, I am not too worried about build time
<penguin42> AlanBell: Remember that may be in days
<AlanBell> sure, some packages might take days, but I am cool about leaving it running for a few months
<penguin42> ok then....
<penguin42> AlanBell: What storage are you going to run off?
<AlanBell> dunno, the pi *has* to boot from SD card, but it can then hand off to something else, either USB attached or NFS (yeah, storage over wifi might be a bit scary)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Building off SD isn't necessarily very pretty - some of them won't last that long
<AlanBell> yeah, we have good ones. SLC based, but they are not cheap
<AlanBell> however for a build farm cheap unreliable SD cards are fine, if one breaks you just rip it out and stick in another one
<penguin42> yeh but if you can network them then you avoid that pain
<AlanBell> they still each need an SD card to boot from
<AlanBell> and network contention could be a problem, I dunno
<AlanBell> there would be a computer with a few TB of attached storage to serve up packages to the builders, that might not be a pi
<penguin42> AlanBell: do they have usb-networking setups with pis?
<AlanBell> the network card hangs off the USB
<AlanBell> which has the expected impact on performance :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: No, I mean pi<->usb<->pc ?
<AlanBell> oh, right, erm, no
<AlanBell> the USB input on the PI is just for power
<penguin42> ah, that's a useful trick on a lot of the android things
<AlanBell> it doesn't have a guest mode USB, but you can hack stuff together if sufficiently motivated
<AlanBell> looks like a buildd is suggested to have 20G of disk space, which means slightly more expensive SD cards, or NFS for the build directory
<AlanBell> though I suspect for most packages a lot less would be fine
<popey> AlanBell: why not a decent 32GB USB stick?
<popey> AlanBell: 4m46s to build tar on my i7. 36m28s to build tar on RPi with SD card
<AlanBell> not so bad
<penguin42> that's tar - a nice small easy to compile package
<AlanBell> 32G USB stick is a possibility
<penguin42> popey: Out of interest had you set the parallelism on your i7?
<popey> i didnt, i just ran "debuild -uc -us"
<penguin42> popey: But do you have the debian env set for parallelism?
<popey> as I said... no â»
<penguin42> popey: See what difference a     export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='parallel=10'
<popey> on which box?
<penguin42> popey: The i7
<penguin42> (unless you want to try running 10 builds at once on a Pi!)
<penguin42> popey: Or I think you can do   debuild -j 10
<AlanBell> popey: USB sticks are not that much cheaper than SD cards and I can't re-use them as easily
<popey> real    4m47.312s
<popey> no difference penguin42
<directhex> AlanBell, raspberry pi's usb stack is a joke. it won't be faster
<AlanBell> it isn't about faster
<penguin42> popey: Hmm that's curious
<andylockran> hey guys - any recommendations on how to get a machine past a grub boot screen?  I haven't got a keyboard to hand to press enter to continue - so it's just stuck there..
<shauno> why does it want you to hit enter?
<zleap> i am sure it should time out to the default and carry on
<Myrtti> dwatkins: http://imgur.com/gallery/oobfnMe
<dwatkins> Myrtti: a wizard, eh?
<dwatkins> http://i.imgur.com/or9IwTS.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-20
<mapps> yo all
<daftykins> mornin'
<mapps> 1 MIN LEFT FOR HOMELAND
<mapps> E4 :DDD
<mapps> AND ITS DONE
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> off to watch homeland..then brooklyn 99 will save walking dead for tomorrow
<mapps> wha you doing up daftykins ?
<mapps> daftykins, ?
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> sorry just nipped to the bathroom
<daftykins> ah just didn't feel like sleeping yet
<mapps> ah
<mapps> hmm i can see my ipcam..can check my house in UK..but the vpn isnt accessible and i cant access the raspberry pi via ssh ;(
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> someone turned it off again?
<mapps> i dunno what hapened tbh
<mapps> i thought the router was off..but guess not
<mapps> noones been to th house
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> Happy Birthday Ubuntu :D
<daftykins> cake please!
<MooDoo> no cake mine
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you ?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: alittle tired, but fine, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah i'm ok thanks :D been playing about with xubuntu at the weekend.
<brobostigon> good to hear, :)
<MooDoo> it's nice n fast
<brobostigon> :)
 * zmoylan-pi is running xubuntu on 4yo 1gb netbook as my main system
<brobostigon> i run haiku and debian testing with I3 on my eeepc now.
<zmoylan-pi> the original eeepc or a later one as the later ones were better speced?
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: yeah it's good, I just installed it this weekend for a play
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: the 900 model.
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: and it runs both, without blinking an eyelid,
<SuperMatt> WOOO RELEASE WEEK
<SuperMatt> bring on Thursday :)
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> who is coming to the release shindig?
<SuperMatt> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2898-ubuntu-utopic-unicorn-release-party/
<brobostigon> booze up, more like, from what i have heard.
<SuperMatt> well, yes
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> I've picked a place with unicorn in the name
<SuperMatt> and damn I want to see what t-shirts are coming our way for this release
<MooDoo> no i can't make it sorry, unless there is a wifi link and you can google hangout at the event.
<SuperMatt> could try
<zmoylan-pi> a wifi link in a room full of data sucking geeks... :-)
<MooDoo> lol yeah that's the issue :D
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> You can tell it's Monday, it's a bit quiet
<awilkins> Caffeine ingestion hasn't got levels up to basal metabolic rate yet
<zmoylan-pi> you need to mainline caffine so :-)
<diddledan_> *mumble grmph*
<MooDoo> lol
<diddledan_> why must valuehost.ru be such pains in the proverbial?! they're complaining repeatedly about my tor exit server "attacking" them
<diddledan_> they're the _only_ people to have complained in over two months' of operation
<zmoylan-pi> freedom hating commies? :-p
<diddledan_> I need to run my own ISP methinks :-p
<zmoylan-pi> but then you'd have to deal with you know... people :-)
<directhex> diddlenet
<diddledan_> or at least own my own IP Address so that complaints come to me and can be ignored rather than going to my host
<directhex> i'd rather not...
<zmoylan-pi> simple people of the land, you know, morons :-D
<MooDoo> directhex: I've been wanting to do that for years :D
<MooDoo> i meant diddledan_
<diddledan_> does anyone know how to get apport to add a second backtrace attempt to an existing bug?
<diddledan_> specifically bug #1235567
<lubotu3> bug 1235567 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus-ui-gtk3 crashed with SIGABRT" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235567
<czajkowski> diddledan_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<DJones> Does anybody use BT email/Office.com email? Just wondering if anybody has noticed there being a fault stopping you logging in and sending email
<diddledan_> thanks czajkowski
<MooDoo> diddledan_: did you know you have _ ?
<diddledan_> it's ok, MooDoo , I'm still the same person I always was :-p
<directhex> Â£130 for a windows 8.1 x86 tablet from argos
<directhex> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2923020.htm#pdpFullProductInformation
<diddledan_> 1GB of ram won't get you far
<zmoylan-pi> ah, bush... i have an an mp3 player from them, was the first time i had to use a manual to look up how to change volume...
<directhex> bush is argos own-brand
<foobarry> i remember playground religious wars over your make of stereo
<directhex> also alba
<zmoylan-pi> when we all should agree amstrad was best :-p
<foobarry> 19 month old daughter is currently trying to plug a usb mouse into a wii adapter
<foobarry> amstrad immediately came to mind as utter tat
<foobarry> along with goodmans , matsui, bush, saisho,
<zmoylan-pi> cheap and cheerful i'd say for amstrad
<zmoylan-pi> sanyo
<directhex> cheerful? sralan sugar is hardly cheerful
<foobarry> cheap and nasty = alan sugar
<foobarry> daughter managed to do it
<zmoylan-pi> my sister spent a fortune on a pioneer stero in 80s.  very swish
<zmoylan-pi> i was the only one in the house who could set it up as the wiring was an adventure
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: xyzzy
<foobarry> pioneer, sony, marantz, denon were the awesomez
<zmoylan-pi> and it had a cd player!! oooooooooh
<diddledan_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xyzzy_(computing)
<zmoylan-pi> a unit that took more space than the turntable for vinyl
<zmoylan-pi> and a double tape deck that saw a lot of usage when i got a zx spectrum :-)
<zmoylan-pi> as it had a double speed copy function
<foobarry> loss of quality at double speed
<foobarry> causing game load failures
<foobarry> there was lots of superstituous voodoo when u copied tapes
<foobarry> some of it true
<foobarry> keep the volume down or reduces quality of copy
<zmoylan-pi> the games i copied at double speed never failed for me.  the spectrum was very forgiving
<foobarry> i was acorn man
<zmoylan-pi> it was a huge leap from 2 tape recorders side by side on cushions to prevent vibrations from passing traffic been picked up
<directhex> foobarry: oh man, volume settings. fired up a dragon 32 this weekend. getting the damn tapes to load @_@
<zmoylan-pi> my first spectrum tape recorder was a bit finicky.  slide volume slider to 4 and then press it with finernail just a smidge, no more no less.
<zmoylan-pi> it had been rescued from a skip so couldn't complain
<foobarry> grundig
<zmoylan-pi> this one had a joystick instead of buttons, it was rescued from a skip in a rehabilitation hospital so might have been a special jobbie for folks with limited limbs/dexterity
<diddledan_> ok, I appear to have lost the "default" greeter in lightdm
<diddledan_> this is normal ubuntu
<diddledan_> it's using some weird fallback
<diddledan_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jfdv1aoh1cc4zd/Screenshot%202014-10-20%2011.06.10.png?dl=0
<popey> $MORNING
<MooDoo> morning popey
<knightwise> hey everyone
<foobarry> $GREETING
<popey> stil loving my tesco hudl2
<directhex> is it blue?
<foobarry> i will see how much munneh i have left after using tesco voucher for RAC cover
<popey> no, kinda pink
<zmoylan-pi> theft proof
<popey> also easy to spot it
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the dark night i stepped on my psion... :-(
<zmoylan-pi> or the basement network cabinet with no lights i dropped my black maglight after taking it out of it's holster before turning it on...
<DJones> popey: My wife got a pink hudl2 at the weekend, she seems pleased with hers, bit heavier than my N7, but just as quick
<MooDoo> oooo i'm looking at them for christmas pressies
<zmoylan-pi> but if they're so cheap what happens if they get more than one for a pressie?  what a faux pas! :-)
<ujjain> paying rent does not improve your credit score right? unless you probably use a credit card, correct?
<awilkins> ujjain, No idea about the US, but in general what improves your credit score is having debts and servicing them properly
<MooDoo> yes it does, as you'll make regular payments.
<ujjain> ah ok, right. I figured like properly paying contracts would help.
<awilkins> Although for some reason my bank only increase my credit limit when I miss a payment and have to pay a fine on my card
<ujjain> MooDoo, how is that? It seems they don't report it.
<MooDoo> i would of thought if you didn't pay, you'd get a mark, have you had a look at your credit report with experian?
<awilkins> When I do what I usually do which is to keep a positive balance on my card all the time so that I never have outstanding debt on it, they don't increase my credit limit.
<xplora1a> ujjain: cerdit score is kept by companies like experion, to improve you need transaction with companies that subscribe to the checking service, ie mostly banks...
<awilkins> It's almost like they LIKE delinquent debts...
<ujjain> I have lookde at my credit report
<ujjain> it's empty
<MooDoo> my credit report wass shocking it took me years to get a decent one
<awilkins> I got turned down for a credit card because I never had a job or any debts
<ujjain> I asked the company I am paying rent too, Â£1600 monhtly, half on my cost, they say, take a credit card, we don't report you paying rent
<awilkins> Well, I had a job
<zmoylan-pi> it's either boring on time payments or a bad risk, those are your choices :-)
<awilkins> Got paid well
<ujjain> Experian credit report did not even show my job.
<ujjain> or income, or bank account, it showed nothing.
<ujjain> empty.
<awilkins> Yeah, catch 22
<awilkins> Can't get credit because you've never taken credit
<MooDoo> capital one do a high interest get your credit up card if i'm not mistaken?
<awilkins> So they have an enhanced debt vehicle so you can prove that you can service debt? Nice.
<ujjain> I don't care about interest on my credit card. It can be 200%, I don't need credit, just a credit score, because the paid bank account I wanted rejected me, probably because there's a small overdraft.
<MooDoo> over draft doesn't count to your credit score
<MooDoo> the fact i pay it off on time counts.
<ujjain> if you don't have a credit score, you can be rejected for a bank account, because it has an overdraft
<zmoylan-pi> well they hate that for a start :-)
<awilkins> CCs hate you paying off on time..
<ujjain> I was rejected for nationwide flexplus
<awilkins> They want the interest! And the fines!
<awilkins> Like I said, they only bump my credit limit higher when I fail to pay on time...
<zmoylan-pi> and to keep their threatening letters department in red ink
<ujjain> yeah, they're animals, like payday loans, but on my ISA saver, I only get 1,5%
<awilkins> Cash ISAs are mad
<xplora1a> all my credit cards have direct debit of the full balance on the payment date. It can be hard to find these offers but very useful.
<MartijnVdS> it's standard here
<MartijnVdS> getting "spread payment" requires an extra form
<ujjain> xplora1a means direct debit on the same day?
<ujjain> on my Dutch credit it was payment back once a month, I think that's normal, after that you pay rent
<christel> is there any particular reason you need that specific bank account (or bank for that matter)? you might find that you have more luck with a different bank
<christel> i obviously don't know your situation but when i moved to the uk it was a pain in the arse to find someone who were happy to open an account for me
<xplora1a> most of the problems arrise from the Anti Money Laundering legislation. Banks are required to Know Your Customer (KYC) for all accounts, this has nothing to do with credit status..
<ujjain> Flexplus has many benefits, insurance, etc.
<MooDoo> vivid vervet
<zmoylan-pi> velvet vole
<MooDoo> no vivid vervet is 15.04 ubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was a silly name suggestion for 15.04 :-)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: you're freenode staff aren't you?
<Myrtti> yup
<MooDoo> could you help popey "who do I need to speak to about letting freenode know that there's 200+ people trying to connect from the same IP?
<MooDoo> "
<MooDoo> christel: could you help popey too ?
<Myrtti> we've gotten the iline request
<Myrtti> just prodded peeps
<MooDoo> Thanks Myrtti :)
<Myrtti> aw man my late lunch soup is too hot :-(
<zmoylan-pi> time + hot soup = goldilocks zone
<zmoylan-pi> + icky soup skin of course :-)
<diddledan_> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> NO
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> is it this week?
<christel> MooDoo: myrtti made magic happen and they should now all be able to connect :)
<zmoylan-pi> i usually wait a week before risking an install in case of 'surprises'
 * popey spots lots of canonical people join irc, thanks Myrtti 
<diddledan_> popey: where you at?
<zmoylan-pi> and do you know where car 54 is? :-)
<christel> confernece!
<diddledan_> oooh
 * diddledan_ confers
<christel> as you can tell we don't spellcheck our ilines :D
<popey> diddledan_: Washington DC
<MartijnVdS> Is the other Washington Washington AC
<zmoylan-pi> it would explain the politicians ability to flip flop
<diddledan_> plop an oscillator onto the DC and you'll get AC
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: except the other washington is on the other side of the country
<diddledan_> does this mean that Washington DC has been "rectified"?
 * diddledan_ derezzes some citizens
<MooDoo> thanks christel :)
<zmoylan-pi> well you want to keep stupidity as far away as possible in case it's catching
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: *degauss*
<zmoylan-pi> i hope they don't have a pacemaker
<diddledan_> MartijnVdS: http://open.spotify.com/track/5aZCwTIsfqv22p5bewcrgf
<alex555> Hi All, I've got a question that may be a bit off-topic; I'm new to London (and to the UK in general) and I'm looking for stores that can sell Desktops without Windows pre-installed (all major vendors tend to have Windows 7/8 preinstalled). I was disappointed to see that Dell's offering is very limited (only a single Desktop which in non-customizable); any suggestions?
<Myrtti> do you want brand new or are refurbs ok too
<alex555> brand new
<Azelphur> alex555: if you're looking for high end kit, pcspecialist do custom builds.
<zmoylan-pi> build your own pc?
<Azelphur> oh wait...desktop? y u no build your own
<zmoylan-pi> a rasp pi and a really really big case? :-)
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: http://i.imgur.com/nRFCS.jpg relevant :P
<zmoylan-pi> you could have a cluster of those in 1 case :-)
<Azelphur> haha
<zmoylan-pi> why does your desktop pc have 6 power switches in the cd bay :-)
<awilkins> alex556, I tend to buy parts and build my own - it's not actually very hard
<awilkins> alex556, I've never owned a desktop PC that came with Windows pre-installed... although I've usually installed it to feed my gaming habit
<zmoylan-pi> i usually buy cheap laptops from argos just before a new catalog comes out.  and wipe the windows
<awilkins> Got a nice G72 that way
<awilkins> Only sub-Â£300 laptop I could find with a screen that had a res higher than 768 pixels high
<DJones> awilkins: HP G72?
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> The RAM gave out on it this year, I thought it worth buying replacement SODIMMs
<awilkins> Also went to the effort of cleaning the fan assembly
<awilkins> It's big and heavy but it makes a nice family couch laptop
<DJones> I've got one of those at home, only used as a spare machine now, its a pretty decent machine, I think I paid Â£400 for it new about 4 years back
<awilkins> My new employer just got me a souped-up zBook 15
<awilkins> 16GB of RAM. Case like a Bentley (big, heavy, sturdy, shiny)
<awilkins> Had to tinker with the RAID array stuff but got it running Ubuntu last night with the mSATA drive as an SSD disk cache
<DJones> awilkins: I got a Lenovo Y510P through work which relegated my G72 to spare, thats a nice machine
<awilkins> I've gained a fondness for Lenovos
<awilkins> They are the standard issue at the job I'm leaving
<awilkins> It's either the Lenovo or a HYUUGE Dell Precision for the "developer workstation" laptop
<awilkins> alex556, What's your budget for this PC?
<ali1234> anyone ever seen a website that simulates population growth based on user-supplied birth/death/life expectancy parameters?
<ali1234> like this thing, except you can watch it change in real time, with sliders to control the parameters: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/interactive/vp1-story-of-the-census/index.html
<zmoylan-pi> facebook? :-)
<ali1234> wat
 * awilkins is loving mSATA card + bcache
<awilkins> *ka-chow* boot times, 750GB storage space....
<n1md4> hello
<n1md4> i need to be able to disable requiretty in sudo for use with remote nagios calls, via ssh
<n1md4> I have Defaults:nagios !requiretty in sudoers, but it doesn't appear to be honouring it
<n1md4> any ideas?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-21
<Azelphur> ali1234: you happen to be around at this time of night? having a bit of a panic here
<ali1234> okay?
<Azelphur> ali1234: basically, there's a full drive encrypted partition on my laptop that contains my cold wallet, and it's not showing up in grub any more, and I think my cleaner threw out my paper backup
<Azelphur> so...kinda shitting bricks
<ali1234> sorry but... lol
<Azelphur> yea I know, lol
<Azelphur> but uhh, halp?
<ali1234> i don't use full drive encryption
<Azelphur> the partition is still there
<ali1234> for exactly this reason
<Azelphur> and I have the keys to decrypt the partition
<ali1234> well the first thing you should do is unplg the hard drive and image it before you make the problem worse
<ali1234> read only mode
<ali1234> now
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> i can't understand why the cleaner would throw out paper wallets
<Azelphur> ali1234: whoo, called the cleaner and she told me she moved it
<Azelphur> thank fuck...I was panicing like hell lol
<ali1234> did you just leave them lying around on the floor or somehting?
<Azelphur> ali1234: not the best of places, under the bed xD
<ali1234> if so, how do you nkow the cleaner won't steal them?
<ali1234> could have copied them
<Azelphur> this is the kick in the teeth to backup properly.
<Azelphur> yea I know
<ali1234> seriously, so many problems
<Azelphur> not the best of solutions, I am gonna sort this first thing tomorrow, that is definitely the kick in the teeth I needed.
<Azelphur> ali1234: and cleaner is my brothers sister, I trust her not to steal them
<Azelphur> but yea, phew none the less :)
<Azelphur> brothers sister...I mean brothers fiance
<ali1234> your brother's sister... isn't that like, your sister?
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> i've only ever seen heartache from FDE users in #ubuntu
<ali1234> yeah, same
<ali1234> mind you, if it works, why would you even mention it?
<Azelphur> Tomorrow I shall try and fix that partition, and then take multiple backups :)
<ali1234> like all things, you only hear about it when it breaks
<Azelphur> nn folks :)
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> nn sir
<ali1234> azelphur going to bed early, is this real life?
<daftykins> i had to check if i was asleep
<diddledan_> I'm not
<daftykins> :>
<shauno> I use FDE .. zero problems
<diddledan_> shauno: you're on a mac
<shauno> I'm sorry :(
<diddledan_> :-p
<shauno> ping me when 'the year of the linux desktop' gets here and I'll take another look :p
<shauno> assuming I've found a way to actually boot linux on this by then :/
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> shauno: really? i thought it was pretty do-able on all macbooks, using rEFInd or similar
<shauno> if I rip my 2nd drive out so I can put a cdrom back in, yeah
<shauno> it has to be done via bios-emulation so the gpu switching is disabled
<daftykins> *nod*
<shauno> because my grandmother understands gpu switching better than linux does
<daftykins> i always found the 'ROM' qualification to be redundant, after all the vast majority of optical media people are going to encounter will be read only :>
<shauno> at the moment, it boots, discovers the amd chip, and switches to it
<shauno> but doesn't invoke the gpu switching stuff, so it's driving a gpu that isn't connected to anything
<shauno> and nothing I've tried re: blacklisting will stop it
<daftykins> AMD beside intel on-die?
<shauno> right, one of each
<shauno> on osx, it switches between them based on what GL routines are in use, which is snazzy
<shauno> but you can't just start using whichever gpu takes your fancy.  you have to poke the gmux so the right one is pointed to the screen
<daftykins> mmm, all this hybrid graphics stuff is quite funky
<daftykins> yeah must not be too far off nvidia's optimus tech
<shauno> which I can do from osx, and from grub, but not from linux
<shauno> (well, I can in theory, by shoving some bytes down ioctl.  but not if I can't stop the kernel from switching to that gpu before the gmux has been told to power it, because that causes the kernel to halt)
<daftykins> which model is this? i wasn't aware any of them had showstopping Loonix usage yet
<shauno> well that's it, all the docs say it works fine, because it does if you boot it with bios-emulation
<shauno> but that needs my cd drive back :(
<shauno> if you boot with bios emulation it uses the amd gpu exclusively, because bios doesn't provide the interface to switch.  so that entire problem goes away (along with your battery heh)
<daftykins> ah ok :)
<daftykins> yeah i think i'd heard of some complaining about high temps and bad battery
<shauno> that's almost certainly why.  even in osx, which has some pretty astounding power management, using the discrete gpu gets quite toasty
<diddledan_> why do you need your cd drive for bios mode?
<diddledan_> just boob off a usb
<daftykins> because bootcamp i suspect
<diddledan_> yeah bootcamp can do usb
<shauno> because apple's efi implementation is terrible
<shauno> you get bios emulation if you boot from an internal device
<diddledan_> as far as it's worked for me it boots bios mode if I tell it to boot an mbr
<diddledan_> with ubuntu dvds the default os selector lists two boot options for a usb stick - one for bios and one for efi
<diddledan_> the efi is nicely labelled "efi boot"
<diddledan_> so you can choose the other
<shauno> that doesn't strike me as logical
<shauno> just tried 14.04.1 - I do get two options, but theyre both named "efi boot"
<diddledan_> >.<
<daftykins> haha nice
<shauno> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjqq0ygnxd7o5kh/IMG_2183.JPG?dl=0
<diddledan_> how did you create the usb? it needs to be done with dd not diskutil
<diddledan_> I _think_ that's accurate anywho
<shauno> it was dd, yeah
<diddledan_> in that case then I'onno
<shauno> and I have a little faith it's written, because I get to & past grub
<shauno> but after grub the screen switches off, and then the fans failsafe
<shauno> (eg, hairdryer)
<shauno> looking to see if I still have the copy of grub-efi I built
<shauno> I find ubuntu's practically unusable because instead of my beautiful 10-line config file, it uses a small book's worth of bash nonsense
<diddledan_> yeah, grub2 configs are pretty indecipherable
<diddledan_> not that they need to be like that
<shauno> they're not, that's just it
<daftykins> another example of progress, eh?
<diddledan_> update-grub takes an age sometimes
<diddledan_> apt-get install foo.... lets update grub 4 times
<shauno> eg, my grub.cfg is http://paste.ubuntu.com/8609763/
<shauno> that I can understand :)
<shauno> and boot.cfg is http://paste.ubuntu.com/8609765/
<shauno> which is also perfectly readable.  even with all my attempts to get the radeon to bugger off
<shauno> (and yes, as you can tell, I love being able to loop isos in grub2.  it makes the bootstick full of OSes remarkably sane)
 * daftykins makes a cross with his fingers at the referneces to raring
<daftykins> *references
<shauno> heh, that'll be last time I was giving this a shot
<mapps> hi all
<shauno> I tend to have that problem  i dont remember how long ago things were until i wake up the pxe box and it offers me 8.06
<daftykins> mornin' mapps
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<mapps> guessing u all havent been to sleep:P
<shauno> mapps: whats that?
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> ok my HTPC freaks me out, it just spontaneously booted
<daftykins> i need to sleep shortly, got a friends telco engineer visit coming up
<shauno> surely youshould be awake for that?
<mapps> at what time:D
<daftykins> 1:30pm \o/
<daftykins> assuming he remembers to come to my house and post me a spare key so i can get in
<shauno> ssh on the ipad is ugly
<shauno> I think I'll carry on fighting with that another time.  I need to update bits for 14.04 because they never leave the kernel in the same place twice
<shauno> (also curious to find out what happens if I move grub into the efi partition)
<shauno> reminds me of when I figured I could install from the harddrive, to the harddrive, by making a small partition and dd'ing the iso to it.  I figured it'd just show up in the list of bootable partitions
<shauno> turns out the mac's efi doesn't like that.  big time.
<mapps> which ipad you got?
<shauno> 2, I think
<shauno> it's old and beat up, but the battery still lasts for days, so I can't see a use for a new one yet
<shauno> it took a nice knock on a corner - now if you push your hands on top & bottom of it, you can see behind the screen
<shauno> I think I need new toys though :(  my laptop's getting old enough that it took a hex editor to make sure I got all the new tricks in 10.10
<daftykins> O_O
<shauno> there's a whitelist of which models get the 'continuity' stuff.  mine's not on it because it didn't come with bt-le.
<shauno> but since I replaced the bt board with one from a newer mac, I fixed the list
<daftykins> ah yes i was following that news as it came out :)
<daftykins> i bootcamp'd win7 on my clients mid 2010 iMac as she wants to go fully Microsoft now
<daftykins> so i doubt i'll be bothering to reinstall with Yosemite on there
<shauno> slightly annoying as you not only have to take a hex editor to a kernel module to do it, but you also have to break the signing stuff so it doesn't reject it
<mapps> since being here ive smoked more than normal..so cheap here
<mapps> Â£2.40 for 20 marlboro/camel lights
<mapps> cant help myse;f it seems:D
<mapps> why cant cigarettes not be bad!
<daftykins> drugs are bad, mmk
<shauno> that's hardly fair.  it's not the cigarette's fault your body isn't designed to process them
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> nn guys
<mapps> night mate
<shauno> morning?
<shauno> I think we lost diddledan_ too
<mapps> Network File Server (Windows Networking)
<mapps> Server Enabled:	Yes
<mapps> Server Name:	Gibtelecom
<mapps> Server Description:	DSL Gateway
<mapps> Workgroup:	WORKGROUP
<mapps> whats that hm
<mapps> The irc logs fdont have on joins logged?
<mapps> trying to find out what my old sky ip was
<shauno> mapps: creepy stalking in /msg ;)
<shauno> (get it while it's hot, I put a 1hr expire on it .. because)
<mapps> thanks
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> two days till release day!
<foobarry> found this hilarious http://vimeo.com/109169719
<foobarry> now i know why canonical dropped u1. dropbox charges $10 a month for 1tb storage now
<DJones> foobarry: There's that and if you use Office 365, you also get !tb effectively free (assuming you're paying for MS Office anyway)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning carbon based zmoylan-pi lifeform
<awilkins> Grrrrargh
<awilkins> Microsoft are ANNOYING me
<awilkins> I have a new laptop
<awilkins> I have bleached the Taint off it and installed Ubuntu
<MooDoo> lol
<awilkins> In order to service the needs of my new corporate masters with regard to running things like MS Project, I have decided to put a VM on it and install Windows 7 Pro in it
<awilkins> Like a good little drone, I have determined that I need a new license, even though the one included with the laptop is not being used
<awilkins> I know you can get a nice clean no-bloatware ISO for the OS straight from Microsofts CDN
<awilkins> So all I need is a license key
<awilkins> If you google "Buy OSX online" ; top four links are for the Apple store. The top link offers to sell you Snow Leopard for Â£14 but helpfully points out that Yosemite is free.
<awilkins> If you google "Buy Windows online" you get a bunch of sponsored links. Most of them for double glazing.
<zmoylan-pi> try that search on bing
<MooDoo> http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24281.iso  64bit windows 7 pro iso
<awilkins> Yup, that's the official ISO
<foobarry> some guy i worked with 15+ years ago is asking for a reference
<foobarry> do i decline politely?
<foobarry> all i can remember is a massive mistake he made
<zmoylan-pi> how good is he at making sandwiches?
<awilkins> If you go to MicrosoftStore.com (which despite looking dodgy on a search engine does seem to be actual MS property)
<zmoylan-pi> been ms makes it dodgy to my mind
<awilkins> They only want to sell you Windows 8.1
<awilkins> Â£189.99 incVAT
<awilkins> Ouch
<MooDoo> I just purchased a legit key from ebay and downloaded the iso....
<awilkins> OEM or retail?
<zmoylan-pi> just so it looks like you're getting a bargin when it's bundled with your pc instead of been the millstone it is
<awilkins> Yeah, Ubuntu on this new hardware goes ka-chow
<awilkins> Have the mSATA as a backing cache for the spinny rust
<MooDoo> awilkins: oem i think, it works and is activated, legit hologram too
<awilkins> MooDoo, ah, so they don't email you the key?
<awilkins> Or do they email you the key then post you the COA?
<MooDoo> awilkins: yes, they post it to you, and you can reqeuest email which I did
<awilkins> Not sure if you're actually allowed to install OEM version on a VM
<awilkins> Although no technical measures to stop you apparently
<MooDoo> the only issue i had was i had to phone activate it. but it wored fine.
<awilkins> Phone activation is just inconvenient
<awilkins> All robot based these days, innit? No actual person grilling you.
<MooDoo> yeah
<awilkins> Tesco.com selling Windows 8.1 for Â£96.58
<awilkins> Ah, they've cunningly omitted the "Home" from home versions now, haven't they
<zmoylan-pi>  but is that win 8.1 starter basic home edition?  not a lot of windows in that :-)
<foobarry> still a lot of money
<awilkins> "Full version" (except it's not pro because it's the purple box)
<MooDoo> if it's just 7 you want, cost me about Â£25
<MooDoo> I think
<foobarry> i'd want to feel like a software was amazing to pay more than Â£10 for
<awilkins> Yeah, 7 pro
<MooDoo> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/aclass-software-products
<awilkins> Ta for the referral
<MooDoo> :) ok
<awilkins> 30 squids
<awilkins> Much better
<awilkins> Hooray for dumpster diving of licenses
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> absoolutely chuffing it down here
<foobarry> thats bad
<foobarry> i have a 4ft trench in my garden
<foobarry> and the gutters are also draining into the trench
<zmoylan-pi> no problem, dig another hole beside the trench and bail the water into there :-p
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/bupMH52.jpg
<foobarry> it goes around in a u-shape
<foobarry> more like a moat
<safiyyah> Morning all, I have decided that I am not getting on with gnome on trusty (I hate unity), I want to have kde OR xfce I want to ask if I should just do a reinstall with kubuntu so I can have kwin instead of compiz and all the other kde stuff rather than trying to work them out one by one. Also can someone explain if xfce is the same?
<safiyyah> ali1234,
<safiyyah> ali1234,  read above please? really need a pointer in the right direction
<safiyyah> I need to say that I liked gnome (metacity) but then none of the docks worked because on my system despite compiz setting mgr being there and the compositing feature being ticked, it is not compositing!!!  Anyway had a look around and I can live with kde or xfce.
<MooDoo> if you don't have a problem with a complete reinstall, just install xubuntu or kubuntu....
<MooDoo> or isn't there something like desktop-xfce you can install?
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<zmoylan-pi> this adds xubuntu as option to log in menu at startup
<zmoylan-pi> save a reinstall
<safiyyah> you install the desktop but there seem to be alot of kde packages in general which I  want
<diplo> I always go with a fresh install now adays
<safiyyah> I only installed my system 2 weeks ago zmoylan-pi  so I don't mind
<MooDoo> well you could always - sudo apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies
<diplo> Otherwise you have to keep all the other deps from all other WM's updating
<MooDoo> or if you want full - sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
<zmoylan-pi> but you had such troubles installing it safiyyah
<safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, yes I agree, but once I set up a system that's it for 2 years until the next LTS, I think it's a long time to live with something you are unhappy with
<safiyyah> is the 64 bit kubuntu the one to get? I have 64 bit ubuntu. I don't want one that is fixy please?
<zmoylan-pi> if you're using 64 bit ubuntu then 64 bit kubuntu is the one to go for
<safiyyah> thanks, I thank you in advance for all the help am going to be asking for
<safiyyah> :)
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed it all goes well
<safiyyah> Downloading, but have a lesson between now and 1, so be back about 1:30ish
<ali1234> if you just install xfce-desktop along side unity it can cause problems
<ali1234> in theory it is supposed to work, but in practice it doesn't
<zmoylan-pi> that's how i've installed it a few times.  no real problems sprung to mind.
<ali1234> kde is easier, because it doesn't use the same libraries as unity, but it could still have problems
<ali1234> bug 1307657
<lubotu3> bug 1307657 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu Trusty) "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY should not be set in Xfce" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307657
<ali1234> bug 1314782
<lubotu3> bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1314782 Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347272
<ali1234> just a couple of problems caused by having unity installed on an xfce system
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough, haven't experienced either luckily enough
<zmoylan-pi> yet... :-)
<Azelphur> ali1234: to reply to yesterday, yea I've started keeping more sane hours :)
<Azelphur> in other news...on things you definitely don't want to see in the morning: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo606qjndmn3fl5/2014-10-21%2011.50.38.jpg?dl=0
<Azelphur> that drive better not be failing, that's one of my 3TBs :(
<zmoylan-pi> if there is any doubt there is no doubt... :-(
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> It's only a backup drive so there's no data loss, just have to buy a new one
<foobarry> how do i make a url disappear from the chrome awesome bar?
<foobarry> delete key no worky
<ali1234> i don't think you can. i didn't know you could do that in firefox until recently
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> also chrome has taken to not remembering my passwords lately
<ali1234> http://superuser.com/questions/273278/how-to-remove-an-entry-from-chromes-remembered-urls-from-the-url-bar
<foobarry> and not keeping me logged in
<foobarry> yay ali1234 ta
<foobarry> shift-del
<foobarry> del does nothing, so shift-del is unintuitve :(
<ali1234> well del isn't exactly inuitive either, when the text field has focus. you would think it would delete the character after the cursor
<ali1234> this is how i accidentally discovered the feature
<ali1234> so i suppose it is kind of inuitive, in a reall terrible way
<Azelphur> https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=56c81165bb14f1511c56484f2dbe9f39 it's times like this when open source is awesome :)
<safiyyah> ali1234 so next time you will just get xubuntu straight out of the box?
<ali1234> sure, i always do that
<safiyyah> ali1234,  sorry had a lesson just finished so only just reading the text
<ali1234> i only know about these bugs because people report them
<ali1234> and then i have to fix them
<safiyyah> okay so you agree with my new install
<safiyyah> cool.
<safiyyah> ali1234, I feel like you cursed my love of gnome
<safiyyah> you were talking about xfce
<safiyyah> and now I have been unable to get on with gnome.... it's only logical that you are the one who put the ideas in my head
<safiyyah> I cant decide between kde and xfce, have finished downloading 64bit kubuntu
<safiyyah> trying to find a deciding youtube review
<safiyyah> lol
<foobarry> safiyyah: have you used elementaryos?
<safiyyah> foobarry, no
<foobarry> its nice
<safiyyah> foobarry, looking it up
<safiyyah> foobarry, this is an OS, but I like ubuntu, am not happy with the desktop environment so looking at other options
<brobostigon> you can install whatever DE you like ontop of ubuntu, one isnt exclusive to the other.
<ali1234> you need a ppa for elementary though
<ali1234> and there is no guarantee it works properly
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+archive/ubuntu/stable
<ali1234> also looks a bit dated
<safiyyah> ali1234,  have your tried running kwin on xfce?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> what would be the point?
<safiyyah> its more stable than compiz..... my compiz has issues
<ali1234> use xfwm then
<ali1234> compiz 0.9 is really buggy
<safiyyah> refuses to composite at will
<safiyyah> xfwm? looking it up
<safiyyah> ali1234,  you do realise the only youtube video on it is someone running openbsd..... that screams not user friendly
<ali1234> on xfwm?
<safiyyah> yes
<ali1234> xfwm is the default window manage of xfce and therefore xubuntu
<MooDoo> xubuntu is great
<ali1234> xfce is commonly used on bsd, because it's pretty much the only desktop that is portable enough to run there, while still being half decent
<safiyyah> ali1234, so what made you choose xubuntu over kubuntu?
<MooDoo> i did it as i don't like kde, simple as that really
<ali1234> do you really want to know? because you won't be able to stop me ranting for about an hour if i start
<safiyyah> MooDoo,  suffering from a newly discovered hatred of gnome, now am lost!
<safiyyah> lol ali1234 I genuinely want to know because I dont know if I should do kubuntu or xubuntu
<ali1234> i even have illustrations to go with the rant
<MooDoo> why you hate gnome, i hated it as It didn't look right, then I tried some extensions to make it look how I wanted and disable other features.
<ali1234> like this one: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail.png
<ali1234> that pretty much sums up why i don't like KDE
<ali1234> and no, it hasn't improved
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> but they have great aps
<safiyyah> k3b etc
<safiyyah> thats what was selling me , their apps
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail2.png
<ali1234> great UI design, really makes good use of the space
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Amarok is probably *the worst* example for a KDE GUI. I changed a few highlight colours and the entire blasted thing turned pink!
<ali1234> totally not a confusing mess
<TwistedLucidity> No KDE itself, just Amarok.
<ali1234> amarok is fairly representative of KDE applications in general
<safiyyah> lol
<ali1234> applications that aren't a confusing mess like amarok are horribly skeumorphic plasmoid monstrosities
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: As a user of KDE, I wouldn't say so
<ali1234> i'm looking forward to KDE 5, it looks like it might fix some of the worse problems
<TwistedLucidity> Although you are right, they seem to chase features/configuration rather than boring-ness (i.e. stability). I miss GNOME2 :-(
<ali1234> like the use of a default theme that Qt is incapable of rendering correctly
<TwistedLucidity> I hope menus work. They don't in KDE
<TwistedLucidity> "KDE 4"
<ali1234> i used to be a KDE user years ago
<ali1234> i stopped using it when i switched to ubuntu actually
<ali1234> before canonical fixed up gnome, KDE was the best thing available
<safiyyah> they fixed gnome until it was really good, and then they made the worst invention i.,e unity thereafter
<ali1234> bug reference for "Qt can't render the default theme properly" bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106
<lubotu3> KDE bug 283106 in general "Button text vertical alignment is off with Oxygen theme." [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<safiyyah> I feel like I have to click 20 times and type to pull things up on gnome.... and the metacity gnome refuses to composit
<ali1234> you can enable compositing in metacity still
<ali1234> althugh i don't know how you're using metacity in gnome shell, that's impossible
<safiyyah> ali1234, it fixes and breaks!
<safiyyah> I just want it working
<safiyyah> and not have to think about configurations for about a year or two
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> then I will come back and find out about the new LTS
<safiyyah> my usual need for updates is when skype updates and doesn't work on the lts, thats when I upgrade,..... which is about 2.5 years
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> ali1234, at the log in there are 3 gnome options, and one says metacity
<ali1234> that's gnome classic or fallback or whatever they are calling it now
<safiyyah> its has the layout I want without sending me on a clicking run but wont composit
<safiyyah> even though compiz config mgr says compositing is on
<ali1234> yes, metacity is not compiz!
<ali1234> metacity used to have a config panel where you could turn on compositing
<ali1234> it was removed like everything else good
<ali1234> however, metacity is still capable of compositing
<ali1234> you just have to edit the configuration manually
<safiyyah> right so perhaps the solution is xubuntu with kwin
<ali1234> lol, why do you want kwin?
<ali1234> why not just use xubuntu with the default window manager?
<safiyyah> looks cool, was the reason I fell in love with compiz
<ali1234> xfwm also has compositing
<ali1234> none of these window managers look even slightly similar however
<ali1234> i think you're talking about something else when you say compositing
<ali1234> because it isn't something you can see, it's just a way of drawing windows.. the windows themselves look the same unless they have transparency, which is rare
<safiyyah> ali1234,  there is a compositing issue with gnome because NONE of the docks work. cairo dock, docky ... ANY dock because the compositing breaks
<ali1234> that depends entirely on which version of gnome you are using
<safiyyah> possibly
<ali1234> external docks are quite likely to break in gnome-shell, because their entire desktop is designed to be incompatible with anything else
<safiyyah> i can accept that
<ali1234> they no longer use a separate WM and dock model
<safiyyah> but that doesn't solve my click-about-the-computer problem to get to things.
<ali1234> in gnome fallback with compiz, you will also get breakage, because compiz is no longer tested with anything but unity
<safiyyah> the dock was meant to resolve that
<ali1234> that also goes for xfwm
<safiyyah> I dont like being sent around town all the time
<ali1234> (compiz doesn't work properly with xfce either)
<TwistedLucidity> If anyone is in Nottingham on 27th Oct, you might like this: http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/event/matt-lee-talks-about-stuff
<safiyyah> ali1234, am ready to ditch compiz.... stary eye with kwin :)
<ali1234> i highly recommend that you stick to one desktop, and don't try to mix components
<safiyyah> I can live with either xfce or kde.... kde 5 looks wow
<safiyyah> ali1234,  so you do not pimp out your desktop at all?
<ali1234> sure, but i only use xfce software
<safiyyah> hmmm
<safiyyah> are you a youtuber?
<ali1234> yeah
<safiyyah> give me a link to your setup on youtube please
<ali1234> i never talk in videos
<safiyyah> doesn't matter
<safiyyah> just want to see
<safiyyah> well.... your version of pimping
<ali1234> also most of my videos are about bugs
<safiyyah> lol for all your love of xfce, you never did a 'show off' video on it?
<ali1234> yeah i did a few, hang on
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-G_HQu5_96VP4CMWcMu6Nr1hJDCyUEJL
<ali1234> some features shown in those videos may not be available in a released version yet
<ali1234> also https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/BWvsyYA6BLH
<safiyyah> ali1234, your xfce setup  is what gnome used to look like before
<ali1234> yeah, i know
<safiyyah> yes so I liked gnome at that time, its the new one making me crazy
<ali1234> if you want something like that, maybe use ubuntu mate
<foobarry> tried MAET then?
<foobarry> yeah what ali1234 said
<ali1234> but wait until 14.10 is released (couple of weeks)
<ali1234> because it isn't in 14.04
<foobarry> the image search for vervet are somewhat pornographic
<foobarry> one in particular
<safiyyah> foobarry, i dont use any mini upgrades only lts
<safiyyah> had one hell of an experience with maverick meerkat
<safiyyah> never ever again
<foobarry> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/08/install-mate-desktop-ubuntu-14-04-lts
<foobarry> etc etc
<ali1234> yeah i probably wouldn't go with the PPA
<safiyyah> why not?
<popey> that ppa is good.
<popey> its maintained by Martin, who is an upstream MATE dev
<safiyyah> foobarry, i like the mate one but its still buggy
<safiyyah> i think getting it would be premature
<ali1234> because ppas are nothing but trouble if you're not very familiar with how repositories and packages work
<ali1234> in my experience anyway
<safiyyah> ali1234, i am beginning to miss synaptic because it gave you all the dependencies
<ali1234> install it then?
<safiyyah> will be
<ali1234> it's usually the very first thing i install on a fresh system
<safiyyah> am starting again, downloading kubuntu
<safiyyah> sorry i mean xubuntu
<safiyyah> just got a couple of things to back up and get going on it again
<ali1234> you'll probably be better off with MATE, really
<ali1234> it's exactly the same code as the old gnome
<safiyyah> ali1234, can I delete unity?
<safiyyah> lol
<ali1234> if you want to?
<safiyyah> yes that would give me some satisfaction
<ali1234> i would just use the 14.10 ubuntu mate installer
<ali1234> when it is released
<safiyyah> okay so no need for a fresh install, just add mate?
<safiyyah> no i dont do those 6 month  releases
<safiyyah> am alergic
<ali1234> i'm not going to tell you that will work fine
<safiyyah> since mavericj
<ali1234> i honestly don't know
<ali1234> there is potential for problems
<safiyyah> when I upgrade in two year, mate will be better
<ali1234> attempting to uninstall unity from an existing system is also prolematic
<safiyyah> today their is kubuntu and xubuntu
<safiyyah> there*
<ali1234> there is also lubuntu and ubuntu studio (which is xfce)
<safiyyah> lubuntu caught my eye
<safiyyah> very light weight
<safiyyah> but I figure more of you guys will be kubuntu and xubuntu type of people so I can get better support
 * awilkins is a plain ol' Ubuntu with Unity person
<safiyyah> awilkins, dunno how u do it
 * brobostigon is on I3 tiling DE right now.
<awilkins> Well, most of the time I'm using the apps, or a terminal
<awilkins> Learn a few KB shortcuts and Unity doesn't really get in your way
<zmoylan-pi> i used unity for 3-4 months, after having windows 8 on this laptop for 3-4 months it was such an improvement it didn't annoy me at first :-)
<brobostigon> parentage, are both users of lxde and xfce.
<safiyyah> no offence but unity feels dated to me and it is ugly
<safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, been using ubuntu since gutsy, nothing has topped that gnome 2, with compiz....
<safiyyah> havent used windows in about 6 years or7, if thats the state of things..... I dont know why people are using windoes
<BigRedS> Anyone know a way of getting the time fs attributes were last changed?
<BigRedS> so the output of lsattr on a file looks weird, I'm wondering when it changed
<Azelphur> BigRedS: ls -l says the modified time
<BigRedS> yeah, does chattr modify that?
<BigRedS> I don't think chown does, ls shows mtime doesn't it?
<Azelphur> I dunno
<BigRedS> yeah, it does. I just realised how easy that was to test :)
<Azelphur> Beach is kinda interesting with the weather today, funky patterns \o/ https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=27caad6c59d35899048e711b46762153
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> good morning!
<bigcalm> Have I missed much this past month?
<bigcalm> Moving house is pants
<zmoylan-pi> 1 zombie outbreak, 1 hunt for red october, shiny new ipads, overall not much
<awilkins> Has #gamergate been going on longer than a month?
<zmoylan-pi> has't that been boiling over for ever?
<directhex> about 2 months.
<directhex> although yeah, some of it is ~2 years old
<directhex> if you follow some of GG's loudest voices back in time
<zmoylan-pi> i remember the complaints about advertising in 80s for games like barbarian and gameover.  and complaints about game reviews having no connection with the games reviewed goes back as far too
<directhex> well, the modern "movement" isn't so much about those things, as a reactionary attempt to stop the cleaning up of those things
<directhex> a lot of it ties in to a woman doing kickstarter-funded videos about sexist themes in games, which is about 2 years ago
<arsenip> christ
<arsenip> why is postgres replication documented in such a confusing manner
<arsenip> clearly a #ubuntu-uk problem
<foobarry> i remember A&B computing did a 5yr old using gimp censoring of linda lusardi in the barabrian ad
<foobarry> massive blue "dress"
<foobarry> was on the back page of the mag
<foobarry> i appear to have entered a competition where 95% of the people have got the answer wrong
<foobarry> IMHO
<popey> Any of you watched "Halt & Catch Fire"?
<popey> it's a rather good AMC TV series
<zmoylan-pi> i watched 1-2 episodes, meh
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't seem to have gotten the same same buzz as mad men
<popey> not watched mad men
<popey> i watched all 10 episodes of HCF in a row
<zmoylan-pi> mind the first 1-2 episodes of that didn't grab me.
<zmoylan-pi> might be time to watch 1-2 more episodes
<christel> 17:41  <popey> i watched all 10 episodes of HCF in a row
<christel> err
<christel> child on keyboard
<christel> \o/
<DJones> christel: Put the child in a bed rather than expecting them to sleep on a keyboard, I'm sure it'll be more comfortable
<diddledan_> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> NO
<diddledan_> :-p
<ali1234> is what out yet?
<brobostigon> !isitmeyet
<diddledan_> I'm assuming the bot tells us about ubuntu
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-22
<mapps> HI ALL
<shauno> already?  that must mean it's time for work :(
<mapps> heh
<mapps> i just finished..but im gmt+1 now.so guess u have an extra hour?
<mapps> :P
<shauno> lol, no you're not.  you're gmt+2
<mapps> its 638 here
<shauno> exactly.  go to google and type in 'time gmt'.  it'll tell you it's 4:36 gmt ;)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> well uk +1
<shauno> :)
<shauno> I know, I'm a pedant.  I just keep having this lecture at work because people keep writing the wrong timezones in logs :/
<mapps> :D
<shauno> gmt doesn't move for summer.  that's why we call it bst instead.  so in winter, uk is gmt, euro is cet (+1).  in summer uk is bst (gmt+1), euro is cest (gmt+2)
<mapps> yea
<shauno> this is my favourite rant at work, because how are we meant to explain it to the yanks if we keep forgetting our own timezone :/
<shauno> oh ew.  I hate when the clothes you were planning on wearing aren't dry yet :(
<mapps> heh arent logs basedon server time?
<shauno> servers are always gmt.  else people get hurt ;)
<shauno> (a teaspoon is good for this.  a bop on the head from a teaspoon hurts more than you'd think, but HR won't take it seriously)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> hm
<mapps> feels faster using the net via my vpn
<shauno> see, this is why I rant about timezones.  I've got an email telling me I have a conf call at 08:00 GDT.  what the hell is GDT.  why the hell do they insist on inventing new timezones, we've got enough already
<mapps> german daytime
<mapps> ;
<mapps> ;[
<shauno> heh
<mapps> 1 episode of the league then bed:)
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> don't you feel happier to know that the right people are assigned to a job. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2802349/baroness-lords-tech-panel-left-bamboozled-google-peer-fire-admitting-knew-internet-giant-s-maps-feature.html
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> all well brobostigon?
<brobostigon> runny nose, eczema could be better, otherwise fine, and you?
<zmoylan-pi> wonky hip, 4 hours sleep, a mountain of tasks to do
<zmoylan-pi> can't complain :-)
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> i know that feeling, i broke my hip almost 4 years ago now, diagnosed with osteoporosis.
<zmoylan-pi> i got an artifical one 2 years ago and haven't bounced back yet
<brobostigon> similerly here, last time they did a dexa scan on it, my bone density had increased 2%, so still just the metal work keeping it together.
<brobostigon> sorry to hear, zmoylan-pi
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi: i didn't realise it took so long to adapt
<zmoylan-pi> it happens, some people are grand and some not so grand.  they can only install 2 artifical hips in each leg so if it's not 100% you have to deal with it as long as possible till they install the second and last one seemingly
<zmoylan-pi> upgrades... what can you do? :-)
<foobarry> my mum waiting for one atm
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed her wait is a short one
<zmoylan-pi> much less pain afterwards, that's for sure
<brobostigon> i think the only bit of me that works, is my brain, maybe i should invent the cyberman, a working body to hold my brain.
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't you prefer a simple life of dignity and be a head in a jar like futurama? :-)
<foobarry> my talktalk line is down at home :(
<brobostigon> nah, i think my gf might complain, i would need a body to go to the pub with her, and hold her, those things.
<foobarry> any talktalk users know how to get help?
<foobarry> the website is afail
<brobostigon> formerly, yes.
<zmoylan-pi> she could put her handbag on top of your jar and you would technically be holding it
<brobostigon> good point zmoylan-pi
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: No physio/exercises/something that can help the hip? FWIW - I know physio really translates into "agongy"
<zmoylan-pi> i do exercises and try for a nice 1 hour walk a day.  and some days it's ok but slow and other days not so pleasent
<TwistedLucidity> I can imagine. Not that I've had a hip replace, just two rounds of knee surgery. Didn't do *that much* to fix it, but buggered me up for nearly a year. :-S
<awilkins> Who was the Airfix model junkie?
<Seeker`> awilkins: someone sniffing airfix glue / paint?
<awilkins> Someone in here likes Airfix models
<awilkins> My GF has a few in her back room she wants to get shot of
<awilkins> I have an array of pictures of them
<diplo> I have a friend who is, can't think that I've spoke about it here though
<diplo> He's in a few clubs etc, if you want to link to them I can ask if he is interested
<shauno> I believe foobarry in here
<awilkins> foobarry : Airfix-ping?
<awilkins> Link to the models for anyone who cares : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/abasboi5ftinvrt/AABPGELP2dYYsbwB-0unuwkKa?dl=0
<awilkins> The boxes are a bit dusty and foxed but they are all sealed in cling
<zmoylan-pi> maybe you have to say foobarry 3 times? :-)
<shauno> I'm not sure that's safe
<shauno> oh those cars look purdy though
<Azelphur> wow, gnome-screensaver is nice and secure these days
<Azelphur> the lock screen only locks :0, I can quite happily use my computer as normal while it is locked
 * Azelphur facepalms
<shauno> notsureifserious.jpg
<directhex> he's serious. lcking the screen is actually a hard problem
<directhex> the "right" answer is the locking must be handled by the compositor, as is the case for Unity
<directhex> but, e.g., open a menu (e.g. click File in your IRC client). now wait. the screensaver will never start
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=1d1176deee2427e976e8262e24604259 functional lockscreen is functional.
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't used a screen saver since... ever i think
<zmoylan-pi> i always turn the flippin things off as they annoy me
<Azelphur> Anything else I can use? xscreensaver works but it's very old...
<Azelphur> shame really I wanted to get pidgin-awayonlock but can't without gnome-screensaver I think
<zmoylan-pi> hack the planet \o/
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, wrong channel
<brobostigon> :)
 * zmoylan-pi goes back to working on that script...
<directhex> they're trashing our rights, man!
<nigelb> Azelphur: the thing about old software is that it mostly works.
<nigelb> without annoying new features :P
<nigelb> (a board member at a company I work todl me that)
<foobarry> awilkins: hello
<awilkins> foobarry, Hiya
<foobarry> just looking at your gf stash
<foobarry> are you gonna build some?
<awilkins> foobarry, Not planning on it
<awilkins> Going to be unholy levels of busy over the next few months, I've not had an Airfix habit since I was a kid, and I don't need the extra clutter (and neither does she)
<foobarry> are you selling them?
<popey> morning
<awilkins> foobarry, I think she's clearing out her room and eBaying things
<foobarry> might be worth doing that as a job lot on gumtree
<awilkins> I just remembered the talk of Airfix in here and thought you might like first refusal ; I have no idea what kind of value they have or what kind of price she'd think was fair...
<foobarry> i might be interested but agreeing price is bit awkward so maybe best if market decides price :S
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> my cooleague says a noisy phone line and no internet could be wet wires?
<diplo> defo a possibility foobarry
<awilkins> diplo, Had terrible interference at my old digs (in the modem days) ; speeds went from abouit 48Kbit/s to less than 33 with frequent drops because of "crackling" on the line that was really noticeable on voice calls
<diplo> A friend of mine has had similar issue on dsl, BT Open Reach won't fix and argueing with ISP, break in the cable outside the house that gets wet when we have the seriously bad weather
<foobarry> noisy line and faint dial tone
<foobarry> noise is like a wind tunnel eating a packet of crisps
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> cant get cgiirc and apache to work right
<mapps> http://parrots.zapto.org/news/irc.cgi
<mapps> cgi is enabled for doc root surely thats enough?
<MooDoo> don't you have to enable cgi?
<daftykins> as a module, yep most likely
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i did
<MooDoo> en2mod cgi isn't it
<mapps> yep
<mapps> pi@raspberrypi /var/www $ sudo a2enmod cgi
<mapps> Your MPM seems to be threaded. Selecting cgid instead of cgi.
<mapps> Module cgid already enabled
<mapps> pi@raspberrypi /var/www $
<daftykins> was it not a2enmod
<mapps> a2enmod:D
<daftykins> <o/ \o>
<daftykins> restarted the daemon since the configuration change of doc handling, presumably?
<mapps> ditnt think i need to do anythng else before
<mapps> yep
<MooDoo> then restart apache
<MooDoo> :D
<mapps>   <Directory /var/www/>
<mapps>                 Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews +ExecCGI
<mapps>                 AllowOverride None
<mapps>                 Order allow,deny
<mapps>                 allow from all
<mapps>         </Directory>
<mapps> shouldnt that cover it?
<mapps> as the dir is /var/www/news
<daftykins> i don't like the placement of that +ExecCGI param
<daftykins> in the way it pasted
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> but for the love of Tux, mapps - pastebin site :P
<mapps> ye oops
<mapps> isnt that enough for what i need tho
<daftykins> well like i say, 'cause it pasted oddly the placement might not be happy, though i guess apache would've error'd rom starting had it been an issue
<daftykins> *from
<daftykins> i'd read the access logs to see if it sheds any light on what's going on
<mapps> it wont tho
<mapps> as no error
<mapps> its just showing the file as text
<foobarry> anyone seen the first episode of rainbow? its horrific
<mapps> nah what is it
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/qM4cZjT.jpg
<foobarry> bungle was scary
<daftykins> D:
<awilkins> Reminds me of this sketch
<MooDoo> the twangers episode is the best
<awilkins> <George> {pink hippo of indeterminate gender identity} : Oh, Zippy, look, you've annoyed Bungle, he's gone out!
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/0eaehs6.jpg
<foobarry> this fellow is still on cbbc
<awilkins> <Zippy> {yellow rugby ball with rasping voice. Basically the Jeremy Clarkson of kid's TV puppets} : Well.... pour some more petrol on him then, George!
<ali1234> that theme music tho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSzLOu1On4
<foobarry> first episode had a really catchy song about shapes
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXTYfzOXMuA
<foobarry> listen and tell me you didn't actually enjoy it
<ali1234> can anyone read this and tell me if it makes sense? https://github.com/ali1234/vhs-teletext/commit/4b6f602e9fd830f450af6b68887f3f0e2073780c
<shauno> kinda .. no.  step 1 doesn't appear to be a step, and doesn't appear to be followed by step 2 et al?
<ali1234> step 1 is the starting condition?
<ali1234> i could have written "an empty guess is allocated" i suppose, would that be better?
<shauno> I mean before 'how it works'
<ali1234> i'm only interested in the green bits
<ali1234> that's a diff, parts of the file before "how it works" are not shown
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/vhs-teletext/blob/4b6f602e9fd830f450af6b68887f3f0e2073780c/README
<foobarry> if talktalk send an engineer, will they charge me
<dwatkins> probably, foobarry
<dwatkins> ali1234: very nice write-up
<shauno> ah.  well 'how it works' makes sense.  just the pre-amble didn't seem logical.  I see how it makes sense with a bit of context though
<foobarry> dwatkins: unless it is a openreach problem
<dwatkins> foobarry: true, but they should be able to identify that at the exchange
<foobarry> it my cable outside house is damaged then no charge surely
<foobarry> if*
<daftykins> telco handles up to the demarcation point, yep.
<foobarry> we'll see then :D
<daftykins> foobarry: what's the scenario?
<foobarry> noisy line, no internet
<foobarry> even when removing adsl filter and plugging phone direct tthen loud hissing line
<foobarry> since wet and windy weather yesrday, no visible damage
<daftykins> nasty!
<foobarry> going home now to no internets :(
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> you'll get so much more done! :D
<Myrtti> would anyone happen to have clear or white plastic hose lying about, about an inch or so diameter?
<Myrtti> I need like, um. a foot or so
<Myrtti> or would they sell it at B&Q by metre?
<zmoylan-pi> do they have a web site you can check?
<Myrtti> it's not very intuitive
<daftykins> search box? :>
<ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/PVC-Tube-25mm-Internal-Diameter/dp/B00H84SW9C/ref=sr_1_22?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1414002596&sr=1-22&keywords=clear+plastic+flexible+pipe
<Myrtti> hm, that might work.
<Myrtti> as if I'm not already sourcing everything for my wedding from Ebay, Amazon and Etsy already.
<daftykins> what a hardship ;)
<ali1234> i'm not sure if i dare ask why you need a 1 ft hose for your wedding
<zmoylan-pi> for the gate crashers, duh :-)
<Myrtti> a handle for a bouquet
<ali1234> so it being hollow and water tight is not a requirement?
<daftykins> hollow for the stalks.
<zmoylan-pi> throwing a bouquet with water in it would be fun... :-p
<daftykins> that'll learn 'em
<daftykins> speaking of which i got yet ANOTHER wedding invite just today
<daftykins> *sigh*
<zmoylan-pi> bulk order toasters online and distribute accordingly :-)
<daftykins> :D
<popey> \o/ Toasters
 * popey misses his toaster
<ali1234> popey has "toaster" on highlight
<zmoylan-pi> each personally monogrammed toaster wedding present number x with a certificate of authenticity
<daftykins> popey: what happened to it?
<popey> nothing
<popey> it's just far away
<ali1234> wouldn't let you take it through the metal detectors huh?
<popey> 3675 miles away apparently
<popey> yeah, bastards
<daftykins> ah yes
<daftykins> i could even get toast delivered to me in a hospital ICU ward, i'm sure you can source some sir :D
<popey> Oh i can source toast
<czajkowski> AlanBell: popey Surrey drinks next Wednesday in Guildford if you're about
<czajkowski> AlanBell: can you tell the lord please
<daftykins> we need more alans.
<Myrtti> hollow for the Adafruit Arduino board
<Myrtti> and battery
<Myrtti> and leads
<daftykins> intercom at my friends new house - https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n039cc2e84np93/intercom.jpg?dl=0
<bob4nk]p> !top xxx
<bob4nk]p> !tops xxx
<daftykins> bob4nk]p: stop that thanks
<ali1234> !info xfwm4 utopic
<lubotu3> xfwm4 (source: xfwm4): window manager of the Xfce project. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.11.2-0ubuntu2 (utopic), package size 388 kB, installed size 2352 kB
<daftykins> a wild hexy!
<dutchie> what kind of encryption do i get if i choose the "encrypt my home dir" option on a 14.10 desktop install?
<popey> dutchie: ecryptfs
<dutchie> popey: thx
<popey> np
 * popey switched from that to full disk encryption
 * DJones hacks popey and deletes his goat porn to save him the need to have encryption
 * popey continues to hug his Hudl2
<dutchie> yeah, think i'm going to go with that
<DJones> popey: Is it still pink?
<popey> it is
<popey> lovely pink
<DJones> Have to say that my wife is impressed with her pink hudl2
<popey> http://imgur.com/BDSGSom
<zmoylan-pi> how long before you have enough tesco clubcard points to get a second hudl at same price?
<DJones> Its as fast as her old N7, although a bit too heavy incomparison
<DJones> popey:  That looks orange
 * brobostigon hugs his nexus7. :)
<DJones> Must have been taken with the ubuntu phone camera, colours not qute right :)
<popey> lolz
<popey> dunno what colour they call it
<DJones> popey: Are you ok for a pm, not urgent if you're busy
<popey> but it's quite pinky/orangey
<popey> always
<zmoylan-pi> the flouresecents have mucked up the sensor
<popey> DJones: sure
<mapps> madrid goatING
<brobostigon> was it taken with an Iphone?
<popey> no, thinkpad x220 camera + cheese
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon thinks he is getting worse at jokes.
<zmoylan-pi> what type of cheese? :-)
<brobostigon> wensleydale?
<davmor2> Look it's wot no job popey
 * zmoylan-pi pictures a dozen mice putting on sunglasses when you said wensleydale :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<mapps> good tv day apprentice..criminal minds..modern family..the middle..stalker..the league and arrow
<mapps> AND YAY my vpns working fine..watching bbc live:D
 * davmor2 shuts down mapps vpn access
<mapps> :((
<mapps> working well too..no lag
<mapps> :D
<mapps> think the uploads like 40mbit tho which is obv enough
 * zmoylan-pi has just finished listening to every episode of welcome to our village, please invade carefully.  now has to wait till next week...
<mapps> hm whats that?
<zmoylan-pi> was this weeks comedy of the week.  quite liked it.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_To_Our_Village,_Please_Invade_Carefully
<diddledan_> bbc iplayer geoblock. discuss.
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-23
<daftykins> diddledan_: the one that's in place blocking foreigners from watching? hmm
<diddledan_> daftykins: no, not quite, I mean the one that's in place blocking people with a hard-line in the uk going to a uk flat from watching in that uk flat via the uk hard-line
<daftykins> err really?
<diddledan_> yup, seems amazingstoke is too amazing and exotic for the beeb
<diddledan_> either that or it's because it's sky broadband and the beeb feel threatened by sky so they're actively targetting subscribers
<daftykins> :D
<RV520> hey
<roshan> i want to hide my computer from windows
<roshan> i'm using ubuntu 14.04 lts
<roshan> hello
<roshan> help me
<roshan> i need to hide ubuntu from wireless neywork from ubuntu
<roshan> sorry
<roshan> from windows*
<diplo> People are just starting work roshan, may take time to reply
<diplo> How do you mean hide? As in not share files ?
<roshan> no like the turning off network discovery in windows
<roshan> and please help me
<roshan> i'ma newbie to ubuntu
<diplo> Network discovery just turns off things like showing shares etc I believe
<diplo> So unless you've specifically shared files etc this shouldn't be an issue
<diplo> Out of the box most distros are fairly locked down
<roshan> so my computer wontshow up in the network folder?
<roshan> unless i share files manually?
<zmoylan-pi> unless you share folders i think, i've never had success in making windows see linux
<foobarry> wish i could charge my phone with wifi
<foobarry> since my home broadband is down :(
<foobarry> wasn't there a fake kickstarter about that?
<zmoylan-pi> you could charge your phone via wifi but the power delivered would take days if not weeks
<diplo> It's doable afaik, charging wirelessly but not perfected or cheap enough yet ?
<zmoylan-pi> didn't bayliss the guy who made the clockwork radio charge a phone with a charger powered by walking.  and that was a nokia and not a iphone.  and it still took days
<foobarry> i mean "charge"
<foobarry> as in load up on wifi data at work and use it from home
<foobarry> i was being silly
<roshan> so windows cant see linux or ubuntu?
<zmoylan-pi> offline readers work to
<zmoylan-pi> calibre has a facility to turn websites into ebooks
<zmoylan-pi> i used to love avantgo when i used palm 15 years ago.  bring top 30 websites in your pocket every sync
<zmoylan-pi> pocket is a smartphone app that does it for articles you want to read later, perfect for offline browsing
<diplo> roshan, you could probably ping each machine on the network but other than that you won't be able to do much, I believe sshd is not installed by default either so yeah it would be seen as a device on the network but very little would be accessible if anything
<roshan> so is ubuntu invisible to windows by default?
<roshan> i dont want others to see me at all....far sharing!i searched for some solutions but all i got was some firewall crap,,,help i just switched from windows!
<zmoylan-pi> by default they can't see your files
<BigRedS> roshan: Windows (I think) sets up some network shares by default. Ubuntu doesn't.
<BigRedS> so if you don't manually and explicitly set them up there will be nothing for Windows to see
<roshan> oh then i have no worries about the other people seeing me?
<roshan> coz i cracked my neighbours wifi
<zmoylan-pi> technically illegal
<roshan> its my friend and most of the time he does it too
<roshan> i on the other hand dont know how to and fyi my brother helped
<roshan> hehe
<DJones> Probably not a good thing to admit to doing in a logged channel
<ross> hi
<Guest52384> so how do i turn off network sharing?
<diplo> Unless you've turned it on, it's off by default as we mentioned earlier
<Guest52384> thanks
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> mroning mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<isleofmandan> What time will the Unicorn show up? I have to go to work in a bit and was hoping to kick off the official download...
<zmoylan-pi> is it there yet? :-p
<isleofmandan> nope :)
<zmoylan-pi> is it there yet? :-D
<isleofmandan> Although from running the betas, I think it's just 14.04.1 with a new number. :)
<isleofmandan> I've had a lot of interest in people wanting to switch to GNU/Linux since I gave a few talks on the island. Was hoping to hand out shiny new 14.10 DVDs this weekend. But I need time to download and burn.
<zmoylan-pi> i usually just keep the iso on my usb drive if someone wants a copy
<isleofmandan> I always have a USB of the latest (14.04.1 at the mo) Ubuntu with me, but some people like to take something away to try at home.
<isleofmandan> It's all gone quite well timing-wise. By accident rather than planning.  I gave a talk on Free software as part of Software Freedom Day. That got people talking, so I was asked to do a talk on Linux on the desktop. That was last weekend, so it'd be good to rock up this week with shiny new Utopic Unicorn :)
<isleofmandan> I'm on a one man mission to make Ubuntu the default OS for the Isle of Man :)
<isleofmandan> Sometimes I feel like my country doesn't even exist though: http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/register   - missing from here!
<BigRedS> I mentioned the new release to my brother yesterday
<BigRedS> "if it doesn't have wobbly windows I'm not interested"
<isleofmandan> :) I miss those.
<isleofmandan> Right. Off to work. TTFN.
<Azelphur> Uhh, so this is fun. I have an LG G Watch, put it in ADB sideload mode, ADB says the device isn't connected, watch is stuck at the ADB sideload screen.
<zmoylan-pi> have you tried turning if off and back on again?
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: that's the problem, the G Watch has no physical buttons...I can't turn it off
<zmoylan-pi> so this doesn't work? http://www.mylgphones.com/how-to-factory-reset-the-lg-g-watch-lg-w100.html
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: YES THERES A RESET BUTTON
<shauno> well this is fun.  "here's app, document it".  :/
<Azelphur> thank you
<zmoylan-pi> i like how they use an iphone reset dohickey to reset it :-p
 * zmoylan-pi felt as helpless first time i had to reset my ipod
 * zmoylan-pi is fan of manual physical switches AND removeable batteries
<shauno> welcome to 2014, enjoy your stay ;)
 * zmoylan-pi hugs my nokia asha 201 which has both :-)
<Myrtti> the sad thing about that 25mm/31mm hose is that I can't find a pipe collar. I wonder if a food funnel would work.
<shauno> I gotta ask .. context?
<Myrtti> wedding bouquet handle
<Myrtti> hollow to allow electronics, clear to allow to see the status (charge) LED's
<zmoylan-pi> and what electronics dare we ask are in the bouquet? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> to tweet from the alter?
<shauno> or to make lightsaber soundeffects when it's moved ;)
<Myrtti> Adafruit Pro Trinket 3.3V, Adafruit Pro Trinket LiPoly/LiIon Backpack to charge the battery, 2200mAh LiPoly, 5-15 Neopixels and possibly RF communications.
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, good idea
<shauno> what kinda collar do you have in mind?  wouldn't the plant stuff cover the end?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://surrey.lug.org.uk/Meetings/PubMeets/Archive/20141029
<Myrtti> I feel daft now. There's actual ready made bouquet collars.
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how many are shipped with a usb port :-p
<AlanBell> czajkowski: looks interesting, will try to make that :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: let the other one know as well
<czajkowski> wonder how many -uk folks are in Surrey ?
<Myrtti> ooh, he's aliveeeee
<brobostigon> suggestions welcome, what do i get myself for christmas?
<foobarry> budget?
<brobostigon> ~Â£140
<DJones> brobostigon: Hudl2 + case
<zmoylan-pi> 3-4 rasp pis :-)
<brobostigon> my nexus7 still does the job perfectly, no need for a new tablet yet.
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: i already have two. :)
<foobarry> pvr?
<brobostigon> yes, one does that job.
<foobarry> get a better pvr :P
 * brobostigon approves of that idea.
<DJones> brobostigon: a penny under Â£140.00 http://www.firebox.com/product/6714/Parrot-Jumping-Sumo
<brobostigon> looks interesting.
<foobarry> brobostigon: do you have a hp microserver
<brobostigon> i dont, no.
<foobarry> all card carrying irc members of #ubuntu-uk  are required to own one
<foobarry> surprised it's not in the topic
<brobostigon> i see.
<shauno> I never seem to catch the rebate periods.  whenever I remember it exists, I just missed it :/
<Myrtti> ooh, I'm a card carrier then too
<Dave2> the rebate period for HP microservers seemed to be approximately 2 eternities long
<Dave2> they don't seem to do those microservers any more though
<Dave2> just the expensive ones
<foobarry> n54l?
<foobarry> ebuyer?
<foobarry> http://www.ebuyer.com/616877-hp-proliant-microserver-g7-n54l-1p-4gb-u-non-hot-plug-sata-150w-ps-744900-421
<foobarry> wowzer
<foobarry> somethings gone wrong
<foobarry> boguht one few months ago for 129
<shauno> the problem I seem to have is that hp-ireland never had the rebates at the same time as hp-uk.  so every time people got excited about them, hp-ireland left me disappointed
<zmoylan-pi> that does seem to be hp-irelands job :-)
<shauno> well, I shouldn't rag on them too hard, last I heard the site across the road are all still waiting to find out who keeps their jobs :/
<foobarry> i didn't get a rebate, it was already cheap
<zmoylan-pi> i'd like to feel sad for them but after dealing with their field engineers and navigating their phone directory menus.... no
<foobarry> rebates suck
<shauno> I get the impression the lot here are all doing something cloudy  (since I have the cloud-to-butt chrome extension, and their job postings are usually hilarious)
<popey> Morning
<brobostigon> afternoodlings popey
<BigRedS> Is it generally the case that if I have a thing installed on an amd64 system I can add i686 to dpkg and install it in 686 too? Or is it only some subset of packages?
<directhex> BigRedS: it's a subset of packages.
<directhex> "dpkg --print-foreign-architectures" will tell you if you already have multiarch enabled (in which case apt-get install packagename:i386 gets you the 32-bit version)
<BigRedS> yeah, but should I be able to install packagename:i386 for any value of packagename ?
<BigRedS> I know this is/was intended for libs, but should it be possible to do this with binaries?
<BigRedS> I'm wondering if a 32-bit ghostscript will solve a problem I'm having elsewhere, for some background
<BigRedS> ah, just saw the "it's a subset of packages" message :) So it's a try-it-and-see, perhaps
<popey> yes
<popey> you can just "apt install foo:i386" on an amd64 install
<ali1234> and if it breaks you get to keep the pieces
<BigRedS> that was more what I was wondering. If it doesn't work for some reason, is that a bug or me doing a thing I'm not supposed to be able to do?
<ali1234> a large number of packages don't support multiarch, even more have conflicts that prevent you having more than one arch installed
<BigRedS> ah, that's the sort of thing I was expecting
<BigRedS> might need to be less brute-forcey...
<ali1234> many packages aren't even arch-specific
<ali1234> like software written in python for example
<ali1234> i'm not actually sure what it will say if you try to install the i386 version of one of those
<BigRedS> E: Unable to locate package sendmailwrapper
<BigRedS> sendmailwrapper's a package we've got here whose arch is 'any' (or 'all', whatever perl scripts are supposed to be)
<BigRedS> so I guess it can't find it 'cause it doesn't exist in that arch
<brobostigon> apt-cache search
<shauno> popey: thanks for 'halt catch fire'.  I've pretty much just binge-watched it.
<popey> heh
<popey> good isnt it?
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> ooh
<diddledan_> that looks fun
 * diddledan_ adds it to his "dvr"
<daftykins> what's this?
<diddledan_> daftykins: tv series called "halt and catch fire"
<shauno> it's a documentary about beards.  but it ain't half bad.
<bittin-> on the Ubuntu 14.10 releaseparty in Stockholm waiting for more people :)
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> how long is utopic getting supported for?
<shauno> 9 months I think?
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> bound to be another few batches of those who run non-LTS then come crying by then, then
<shauno> well they'll have v..erily votsit? by then
<shauno> (I vorgot.  already)
<diddledan_> vertile vervet
<shauno> that's the one - vivid vervet
<diddledan_> aah, vivid
<diddledan_> I got one word right
<SuperMatt> who is coming to the london party tonight?
<daftykins> shauno: yeah but so many base production systems off non-LTS, constant upgrades in that scenario aren't cool
<diddledan_> daftykins: more fool them
<shauno> "doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this?"
<SuperMatt> don't do that then
<daftykins> that's my damn point!
<shauno> and iirc LTS actually takes an intentional nudge to knock it off the lts-track
<diddledan_> send them away to RTFM :-p
<daftykins> that would not go down well
 * daftykins steals diddledan_'s _
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> I was attached to that!
<shauno> as I see it, simple solution to people jumping off the lts-track.  bill by the hour :)
<diddledan_> minute!
<diddledan_> 25Â£/min
<diddledan_> minimum charge 1 hour
<daftykins> heh
<shauno> I used to have an odd setup where I billed 1hr for travel each way (4-5 min drive) and 1hr min for time on site.  at $60/hour.
<diddledan_> nice!
<diddledan_> two hours for 10 minutes work
<shauno> it wasn't actually meant to work.  I was trying to nudge him towards letting me just ssh in.
<shauno> 3.
<diddledan_> ooh good point
<diddledan_> 200$ for 10 minutes is funkytown
<daftykins> i'm still not even back cycling yet, so i have been going places by bus :(
<shauno> but he was old and weird and couldn't perceive any work actually happening if he didn't see someone doing it
<ali1234> i have a much simpler solution
<ali1234> i have have to leave my house you pay for 8 hours
<diddledan_> ooh, amazon have a new AWS zone - frankenfurter
<daftykins> never touched that, digitalocean have a London site though now
<daftykins> well, have done for months
<ali1234> is anyone else not bothering with U?
<daftykins> "U" ?
<ali1234> utopic
<daftykins> i don't see the point to touch non-LTS anymore
<daftykins> but then i don't run desktop so i don't really count :D
<ali1234> i don't really see the point on desktop
<ali1234> U doesn't seem to have any changes outside unity 8
<ali1234> for xubuntu we pretty much just bumped package versions and that was it
<daftykins> sounds a bit like a non-release then
<ali1234> quite
<zmoylan-pi> always a chance of a show stopping famingo up in next few days as people install it
<ali1234> maybe, but that won't affect me if i don't install it
<shauno> that's a bit of a deflated "happy birthday"
<vad3rman1156> anyone ordered from https://www.expeditelectronics.com in the UK?
<daftykins> no postal address, looks concerning
<vad3rman1156> please don't say that -.-
<daftykins> your money is gone.
<vad3rman1156> dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<vad3rman1156> Â£341 down the drain - I paid with paypal though?
<ali1234> registered through an anonymous hong kong registrar
<vad3rman1156> ??
<ali1234> Registrant Name:Host Master
<ali1234> Registrant Organization:UDomain Web Hosting Co Ltd
<daftykins> https://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/expeditelectronics.com
<vad3rman1156> people are saying they're good though :/
<daftykins> uh-huh
<vad3rman1156> I guess time will tell :/
<daftykins> so yeah it's cheap electronics sourced at Hong Kong then you just have to wait a lot longer for delivery
<daftykins> location explains the slow site too
<vad3rman1156> wait......
<vad3rman1156> I just tracked it...
<vad3rman1156> Date	Time	Location	Tracking event
<vad3rman1156> 23/10/2014	15:14	Aldershot Depot	Collected from customer
<daftykins> ok well thanks for joining Freenode's primary online retailer review channel :)
<vad3rman1156> sorry but it says it's been collected :/
<daftykins> sorry for what?
<vad3rman1156> for asking here lol
<mapps> yo
<brobostigon> hi mapps
<mapps> hey mate
<vad3rman1156> pizza or curry?
<mapps> lots of games tonight
<mapps> lol at work policies, had an email about them all..ID card worn at all times..and have to disable wifi and celklular data on phones in the office they say...dunno what the need is
<mapps> this isnt MI5
<mapps> ;]
 * jpds throws out mapps out of the building for flouting the "security is everyone's responsiblity" rule.
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i have no 3g on my phone yet, hopefully be sorted today
<mapps> waiting for ee to send me an unlock code
<mapps> :D
<DJones> mapps: It may not be MI5, but could be MI6 :)
<DJones> Or the more secretive illuminati you work for
<mapps> heh well it isnt
<mapps> :D
<mapps> yes
<mapps> lots of important uk agencies operate in gibraltar;p
<mapps> or..just all the gambling firms:P
<diddledan_> mapps: or worse, it could be SD-6 pretending to be the CIA
<DJones> Ah yeah, dodgy blokes the :)
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan_> you don't know sidney bristow, do you?
<mapps> no
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan_> phew
<mapps> hm
<mapps> http://www.2shared.com/file/mxjAnucd/InPlay_TV.html cant work out direct link from that
<arsenip> anyone able to remind my feeble mind what that system is for tipping people online? like.. someone helps me - i tip them
<arsenip> ironically - there's no tip available for this question.
<arsenip> L:d
<BigRedS> arsenip: flattr? gittip? or something else?
<arsenip> FLATTR
<arsenip> jeebus. thanks BigRedS :)
<BigRedS> haha, no worries :)
<diddledan_> I love that the UN's Ban Ki Moon knows my email address and regularly emails me with information about how I can get millions of dollars in monies
<diddledan_> this one is of particular interest because the UN apparently have set aside 3.5million for anyone who's previously been scammed
<diddledan_> that's each, not total
<daftykins> diddledan_: well it's tough to follow people like Koffi Anan, the guy's got to try and feel popular somehow
<MooDoo> evening all
<davmor2> MooDoo: man it's only 13:45
<MooDoo> davmor2: you in the US?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I am
<MooDoo> davmor2: nice, some sprint?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no mostly sitting :P
<MooDoo> hehe
<MooDoo> davmor2: so what you in the US work, play?
<davmor2> Work and it is a sprint but that name is such a lie
<MooDoo> you mean you walk to the bar, get a drink walk to a room, get your laptop out for 10 mins then walk back to the bar? ;)
<daftykins> i feel like i'd rather learn a card game from a person speaking only swahili than follow you guys convo D:
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah you in DC?
<MooDoo> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VcyVXgSoSGk/VEggCrXpSDI/AAAAAAAAI8Y/3oHGIQKtpX4/s1600/IMG_20141022_123332.jpg   with this lot?
<MooDoo> or this lot :D http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ktMHS-FZKKY/VEfzKke3E2I/AAAAAAAAI8I/n8PCkeA10mM/s1600/IMG_9240.JPG
<popey> \o/ community
<popey> those are two photos of the same people â»
<MooDoo> yeah i know just two different places.
<MooDoo> just noticed
<arsenip> anyone any idea why i'm seeing fireworks yesterday/ today? :0
<davmor2> MooDoo: no they only talk to me when they have code that needs breaking ;)
<davmor2> which reminds me
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> arsenip: diwali?
<davmor2> arsenip: because it is dark how else are people meant to see?
<arsenip> possibly MooDoo
<arsenip> davmor2  - someone let off ~6-7 at lunchtime today
<arsenip> just seen some further out
<arsenip> near bow i suspect.
<MooDoo> 2 October (Wednesday) in South India[1], Malaysia and Singapore[2]
<MooDoo> 23 October (Thursday)[1] elsewhere
<arsenip> Ahh
<arsenip> :)
<arsenip> Everyone's been on edge near my office last few days
<arsenip> one car controlled explosion, another turned out to be nothing (but before they decided to blow it up)
<DJones> Must be a quiet release party given that the release hasn't been finalised
<diddledan_> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> NO
<diddledan_> :-p
<MooDoo> lol
<BigRedS> Is anyone in the pub?
 * popey is not
<BigRedS> Tsk. These aren't what they used to be
<diddledan_> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> YES!!! IT'S OUT!!!
<MooDoo> lol
 * Laney upgrades to vivid
<MooDoo> Laney: let me know how it goes
<Laney> doesn't exist yet :p
<MooDoo> really, it's been released, is it not at the mirrors yet?
<diddledan_> MooDoo: vivid, not utopic
<MooDoo> diddledan_: doh! *blush*
<diddledan_> heh, the default apt mirrors are slow
<diddledan_> gb.archive.ubuntu.com I'm using
<daftykins> no way, i just got "lickety split" on a CAPTCHA at Western Digital's website
<diddledan_> I guess they're getting pounded right about now
<diddledan_> lol
<b1ackcr0w> Evening all
<b1ackcr0w> Is there a workaround that lets you test a 14.10 guest in a Virtual Box VM?
<daftykins> i saw someone else just now say something about the graphics artefacting in virtualbox with 14.10
<daftykins> is that what you're getting?
<b1ackcr0w> Yeah, I tried with 14.10 beta 2 the other day, and could get it booted
<b1ackcr0w> *couldn't*
<daftykins> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+package/virtualbox-guest-additions-iso
<daftykins> wonder what that gets you
<b1ackcr0w> ah, I guess you'd have to boot to a shell and install them before graphical boot
<daftykins> doesn't freeze does it? so you could reach a TTY and try installing guest additions
<b1ackcr0w> firing up a new VM now
<b1ackcr0w> (PS Host is a Mint Qiana 64 bit with plenty of hardware resources)
<daftykins> Mint! D:
 * daftykins holds up two fingers, crossed
<b1ackcr0w> As an aside, I love how installing an entire Linux OS takes much less time than the latest version of MS Office. Never ceases to amaze me.
<daftykins> still a shame once it gets to the stage that you have to download over half the ISO again in updates though
<daftykins> i wish there were regular media respins
<b1ackcr0w>                                                                                                      /me owes ubuntu 14.10 an apology
<b1ackcr0w> it's booted fine
<b1ackcr0w> installing the stock guest additions..
<b1ackcr0w> which package do i install to get the current kernel headers again?
<diddledan_> b1ackcr0w: linux-headers
<diddledan_> sorry, it looks like it's linux-headers-generic
<diddledan_> that is unless you have a non-standard kernel
<b1ackcr0w> nah, stock 64 bit
<diddledan_> has anyone seen alanbell lately?
<b1ackcr0w> ah - it isn't liking the lack of an x windows system :)
<diddledan_> no xwin?
<diddledan_> we didn't ship mir already did we?
<b1ackcr0w> well, not a version it recognises
<diddledan_> aah
<b1ackcr0w> hmm
<diddledan_> version 1.16.0 of X11 on mine
<diddledan_> apparently "sparks" have been "fly"ing on the ubuntu-dev mailing list? http://news.softpedia.com/news/ownCloud-Asks-Canonical-to-Remove-Their-Software-From-Ubuntu-Repos-Sparks-Fly-462906.shtml
<popey> pffft
<diddledan_> the email chain hardly appears to be controversial
<popey> indeed
<b1ackcr0w> http://pastebin.com/FQNd6PKU
<b1ackcr0w> *fistbumps popey*
 * popey tickles b1ackcr0w 
 * b1ackcr0w giggles, then remembers he's a 20 stone, 40 year old man
<diddledan_> b1ackcr0w: maybe you need `xorg-dev`?
<b1ackcr0w> you have a point diddledan_ I could google or lazyweb it
<diddledan_> meh
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> is the "what's new" section of ubunut software centre curated in any way or is it purely automatic?
<diddledan_> just wondering why of the 9 entries they're all of the same source (baldur's gate and related)
<popey> pooooped
<popey> i see different stuff
<diddledan_> I guess that means it's different on every request
<diddledan_> random: why is python so popular? of the available "ide" category almost half of them are either python-written or python-targeting or both
<ali1234> is the question why it is popular or why there are so many ides written using it?
<diddledan_> I guess both
<diddledan_> python seems popular for writing things in and for writing ides in
<ali1234> it's popular because it has an extensive standard library, and it is very easy to understand python code written by someone else
<ali1234> and it is very fast to develop something with it
<diddledan_> I've noticed a lot of system-level stuff is being written in python these days.. I guess either instead of bash or instead of perl
<ali1234> more instead of perl
<diddledan_> nodejs is starting to make quite an impact on commandline utilities, too
<diddledan_> (as a corollary)
<ali1234> only command line utilities used by web devs though
<ali1234> nobody else cares about javascript
<diddledan_> I guess
<ali1234> javascript is pretty much what you would get if python had C-like syntax
<diddledan_> I suppose I've noticed that because I'm supposed to be a web dev
<ali1234> i only have nodejs around so i can run lessc
<MooDoo> pwd
<MooDoo> oops lol
<diddledan_> $HOME
<b1ackcr0w> to answer the python thing. One thing might be that tkinter has made it easy to cross platform stuff
<davmor2> MooDoo: Enter your password to continue
<diddledan_> "this is awesome, when you enter a password on freenode it comes out as *s. here's mine ***********. awesome, yeah?!"
<diddledan_> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<Myrtti> hunter2
<Myrtti> hey guys, why can I see my password in clear text?
<diddledan_> "all I see is *******"
<b1ackcr0w> anyhoo. off to bed soon. congrats all. there's still a lot of love for ubuntu out there
<JGJones> Any snort experts in here?
 * diddledan_ snorts
<JGJones> should have expected that :)
<daftykins> are you saying we have big noses :(
<diddledan_> daftykins: I wasn't going to mention it
<MooDoo> ****** you ****** wierd
<daftykins> ;_;
<diddledan_> daftykins: I guess you've got some Roman blood in your veins
<diddledan_> the Romans were renowned for having huge conks
<diddledan_> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0qAJHIIQAIcTyl.jpg:large
<isleofmandan> Hello people. Should a default install of Ubuntu 14.10 (on a gpt disk) create a swap partition? Mine didn't...
<diddledan_> isleofmandan: it should unless you choose manual mode
<isleofmandan> I thought so... Wonder what I did wrong!
<isleofmandan> I did choose full disk encryption, but 14.04 created swap when I did that.
<diddledan_> hmm, it may be a bug then - someone else had that issue with the beta a few days ago
<diddledan_> unless that was you :-p
<isleofmandan> Not me :)
<diddledan_> <-- bad at names and memory
<isleofmandan> It's my first 'proper' EFI install though. 14.04 needed me to enable 'legacy' ROM in BIOS and use and msdos parition table.
<isleofmandan> Maybe that has something to do with why I got swap on 14.04 but not on 14.10
<diddledan_> can you open a terminal and run `sudo lvs | pastebinit`
<diddledan_> that's a pipe character - | - not an el
<isleofmandan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8646030/
<diddledan_> ok, that's what I hoped
<diddledan_> it has created a swap just not activated it
<isleofmandan> Oh. I couldn't see that in gparted
<shauno> perhaps it is activated then?  if you were only judging by parted?
<isleofmandan> system monitor said no swap... let me double-check
<diddledan_> it won't show up in gparted because it's backed onto an LVM
<isleofmandan> System monitor says 'swap not available'
<diddledan_> try running `swapon /dev/ubuntu-vg/swap_1`
<diddledan_> that's a one
<isleofmandan> read swap header failed
<diddledan_> ok, that may be the problem - it hasn't created a swap filesystem
<diddledan_> oh wait, it needs sudo
<isleofmandan> i sudo'd already ;)
<diddledan_> aah
<shauno> sudid?  ;)
<isleofmandan> lol
<diddledan_> in that case then mkswap /dev/ubuntu-vg/swap_1
<diddledan_> then rerun the swapon
<diddledan_> next we need to check /etc/fstab has an entry for it so it gets started on boot
<isleofmandan> now we get 'Device or resource busy'
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> was that on the mkswap command or the swapon?
<isleofmandan> swapon
<diddledan_> oddness
<diddledan_> it might take a reboob to activate then
<diddledan_> before that though we need to check /etc/fstab
<daftykins> diddledan_: typo
<isleofmandan> some references in there to swap_1
<isleofmandan> and also cryptswap
<isleofmandan> ?
<diddledan_> isleofmandan: yes that's normal
<diddledan_> I'm not sure how cryptswap works tho
<isleofmandan> I'm not sure how anythings works :)
<isleofmandan> I'll reboot and see what happens?
<diddledan_> I fear I may have got him to overwrite an encrypted swap with an unencrypted one
<diddledan_> wb
<isleofmandan> All good. So it seems that the install just forgets to format the swap partition?
<diddledan_> I'm not so sure that's the problem - I may have had you create an unencrypted swap instead of an encrypted on
<isleofmandan> Ah. But there was already the space for it in the LVM thingy
<diddledan_> yeah, the encryption sits on top of an lv (the swap_1 device) creating another device which isn't the swap_1 device
<isleofmandan> It's all a bit beyond my tiny brain :)
<diddledan_> the google-fu is "dm-crypt"
<diddledan_> or "cryptswap"
<isleofmandan> Well, thanks to you I have some swap space now. I'm not too worried if it's not encrypted. Surely if the whole drive is, it doesn't matter anyway?!
<diddledan_> the whole drive is unencrypted with a large slice encyrpted minus the /boot filesystem and the swap section
<diddledan_> the bios/efi can't boot from a fully-encrypted drive without a small bit set aside for the bootstrap (grub and kernels)
<diddledan_> the bootstrap needs to be unencrypted
<isleofmandan> I need to do some reading. I thought that because gparted only shows two small /boot things, and then a whopping big 'crypt-luks' that the swap would live in there. There isn't a separate swap partition like I'm used to seeing.
<diddledan_> so you'll have an efi partition, potentially a /boot partition and the lvm - inside the lvm there's encrypted root partition and encrypted swap partition but the lvm isn't itself encrypted - the swap partition may not now be encrypted
<isleofmandan> Ah. You explain well. I'm getting this :)
<diddledan_> it looks like there's a nice simple command to ensure the swap IS encrypted, however. `sudo encryptfs-setup-swap`
<isleofmandan> It warns about breaking hibernation (which is fine for me), and then tries to do something. Has hung at the 'cryptdisks stop/waiting' point...
<isleofmandan> it also refers to '/dev/dm-2' which I've never seen before.
<diddledan_> /dev/dm-2 is a kernel identifier - udev probably created a symlink in a more reasonable naming convention, but finding it may be a pain - try /dev/mapper/*
<isleofmandan> it's still at the 'cryptdisks   stop/waiting' thing... Broken ;)  Time for a CTRL-C I think!
<isleofmandan> Oh well. It's time I went to bed. Many thanks for your help. I'll try the whole install again at the weekend and see if the problem repeats. If so, I'll file a bug report.
<diddledan_> okie dokie
<isleofmandan> but it's more likely something I'm doing wrong.
<isleofmandan> Once the install had completed, I had to tell my EFI (bios thingy) where to boot from... I had the options of 'shim', 'grub' and something else with a weird name. So I went for grub..
<isleofmandan> I assumed shim would be if I was using secure boot
<diddledan_> yes, I believe you're right
<diddledan_> I think shim is signed with a secureboot key
<diddledan_> and it offloads immediately to grub
<isleofmandan> I should've written down the third thing.... Nothing I'd ever heard of before!
<isleofmandan> Anyway, thanks again.
<isleofmandan> Have a virtual beer on me :)
<isleofmandan> Goodnight
<daftykins> i'm sure a real one would be nicer
<awilkins> Well that was a smooth upgrade
<awilkins> Usual slow process but the downloads weren't bad for a release day
<directhex> i'll wait a bit
<directhex> 14.04 works for me
<zmoylan-pi> i'll 2-3 months to see if there are any suprises
<zmoylan-pi> though i might risk my secondary system in a few weeks
<awilkins> This system isn't really in production yet
<awilkins> My new work laptop
<diddledan_> interesting results: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amazon_ec2_pvhvm
<diddledan_> hvm on amazon's cloud is slightly faster than pv
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-24
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> freenode issues this morning then
<MooDoo> diplo: feel a bit used actually, i mean i've not been kicked off :(
<diplo> You were earlier ?
<diplo> * MooDoo has quit (*.net *.split)
<diplo> About 10 mins ago
<diplo> and twice before that
<MooDoo> oh never noticed lol
<directhex> another untested sqlite release which breaks banshee. thanks, obama.
 * awilkins doesn't use Banshee
<MooDoo> obama?
<awilkins> He keeps pushing patches without unit tests. Pressure of the White House n'all, doesn't have time to write them.
<MooDoo> lol
<bashrc> I don't buy the idea that folks don't have time to test their own patches
<MooDoo> that sounds a bit daft, who'd do a patch and not test it..?
<foobarry> developers
<foobarry> who are used to QA teams
<foobarry> i've seen it a lot
<foobarry> in software companies
<foobarry> when arrogance means they assume it will a) compile b) fix the problem c) cause no regressions
<ScrtServiceAgent> Talk in this channel is getting treasonous, gentlemen. "Renegade" writes good patches. Any bugs they cause are clearly the fault of the software he's patching.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<safiyyah> Azelphur, ali1234 are you around?
<Safiyyah> Hi,  am having trouble booting from USB  have an Asus E4721 motherboard
<Safiyyah> Is anyone around
<directhex> P5KPL-AM EPU.
<directhex> G31 intel board. core 2 duo.
<Safiyyah> Is there a reason I can't boot from USB?  I  made a start up disk using the startup disk creator.  I loaded the drive know the direct port at the back of the motherboard and still nothing
<MooDoo> Safiyyah: and are you able to pick usb from the boot menu?
<Safiyyah> Moodoo boot menu not loading am pressing f4
<Safiyyah> I have set the bios but can't get the boot menu up
<MartijnVdS> moodoo boot menoo 8-)
<MartijnVdS> </interrupt>
<MooDoo> Safiyyah: try f8
<Safiyyah> I also tried F2
<Safiyyah> Okay thank you be back in a minute
<Safiyyah> This is my phone but I need to reboot
<Safiyyah> Moodoo am I'm,  thanks a lot
<MooDoo> brill :D
<Safiyyah> Abit emotional today was ready to burst into tears
<Safiyyah> You saved the day
<MooDoo> You'll be fine, just take it step by step, if anything gets in your way, just take a step back, gather your thoughts, then try something else :D
<Safiyyah> I did this with Azelphur two weeks ago but am really unhappy with Ubuntu so want a new system with kubuntu or xubuntu,  should smooth sailing for a minute until we get to loading the noises drivers
<arsenip> why do cisco make wifi so complex :< lol
<Safiyyah> Moodoo does it take extra extra long because I  selected to download updates and third party software or it's stuck?
<MooDoo> yes it can take a bit,
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> evening popey
<MooDoo> howdy popey MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> hi Moo
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld Mucka
<popey> \o/ going home today
<BigRedS> don't you go home every day?
<MooDoo> davmor2: howdy matey, safe trip home, for you and popey et al
<davmor2> MooDoo: ta hopefully :)
<popey> BigRedS: not when I'm in America, no.
<MartijnVdS> popey: so, how's the FREEDOM
<popey> Full of fries.
<MooDoo> davmor2: :)
<awilkins> Smothered in a product that cannot legally be called cheese ?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: "I can't believe it's not cheese"
<awilkins> "I totally believe it's not cheese." would be a more accurate name
<popey> i had some nice blue cheese on a burger last night
<popey> shame the burger was cold â¹
<brobostigon> no meltage, :(
<MooDoo> i must admit i had some colston bassett  blue cheese last night, it was lush
<Safiyyah> popey,  you don't know how many times that xorg.conf file has saved my hide. Got the new system going again today with it's help. Thank you so much again
<Safiyyah> Does anyone know how to get the firefox navigation bar to stay on the browser, nothing google is returning is working
<popey> hah
<Safiyyah> ali1234, you will be pleased to know that I am happy on xubuntu
<Safiyyah> very happy in fact!
<davmor2> MooDoo: try some black bomber sometime
<MooDoo> Safiyyah: it is good isn't it :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: and isn't there another one with tequila in it?
<Safiyyah> MooDoo even the kids noticed ubuntu was bloated and slow
<Safiyyah> this is nice and fluid.... feel like I can breathe again
<Safiyyah> just got the last hurdle now with the printer to climb and then I can muck about with what software I want
<BigRedS> xfce always makes me think of ryanair
<BigRedS> "this is so lacking in polish, and feels so incomplete, it *must* be efficient!"
<shauno> ryanair's lacking polish?  I've noticed the opposite .. they're starting to outnumber the irish
<BigRedS> hahaha
<Safiyyah> BigRedS, well at the moment ubuntu and gnome are bloated, abit like british airways
<Safiyyah> xfce is polished! very smooth, boots in the blinking of an eye
<Safiyyah> and now I sound like ali1234
<awilkins> Safiyyah, Heh, it's not bloaty and slow on a quad core i7 with 16GB of RAM and a Quadro GPU :p
<awilkins> And an mSATA SSD backing the main HDD
<Safiyyah> awilkins, I have a quardcore 2 or something..... too bloated
<Safiyyah> and gnome 3 is driving me crazy
<Safiyyah> am glad I just did a fresh install, just adding XFCE desktop environment would not have solved anything
<BigRedS> It really isn't bloated. The windows-buttojn-search-thing is always slow, but everything else, IME, is fine, really
<BigRedS> Until a few days ago I was regularly going between Unity and Openbox on two sets of modern hardware and there wasn't perceptible difference in response times
<Safiyyah> well I just came off of 12.04 onto 14.04 and it was bloated in comparison
<Safiyyah> huge difference in response times
<Safiyyah> and that menu.... oh my god that menu. That was another thing that almost had me in tears this morning
<awilkins> Even Windowbuttonsearchything is  fast on this piece of gear
<Safiyyah> thank god it's god
<Safiyyah> gone*
<BigRedS> awilkins: really? I've always assumed it's got loads of sleep() calls in it :)
<awilkins> BigRedS, Too many calls to some kind of database
<awilkins> BigRedS, That's lazily loaded on first go
<awilkins> BigRedS, If the OS loaded it in the background on starting your session   (hell, on the loging screen - the apps data is going to be the same for all users, mostly)
<awilkins> That would work better
<BigRedS> yeah, it seems really weird how long it takes to populate apps results
<BigRedS> compared to, say, shell tab-completion which has to look at most of the same things
<awilkins> The apps thing should just go ka-chow
<awilkins> Should do it once, serialize it to a massive blob and store it on disk and only redo it when you install apps
<awilkins> Mind, it does seem to go ka-chow on my new hardware
<awilkins> But it's posh new hardware and a fresh install
<BigRedS> yeah, this was relatively posh new hardware and a fresh install once :) Maybe it's quicker, too, now
<Safiyyah> awilkins, BigRedS  its ka-chow on xubuntu for sure
<Safiyyah> just going to reboot
<Safiyyah> see it it will get the printer going
<BigRedS> does XFCE have the same searchy thingy?
<awilkins> I leave you with what happens to soy sauce when you leave a sachet of it in your desk drawer for three years
<awilkins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/of2wftsduvdb0fl/2014-10-24%2014.01.00.jpg?dl=0
<awilkins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/drof72n734v3dh8/2014-10-24%2014.00.03.jpg?dl=0
<safiyyah> right I need to ask for help with setting up my printer, is anyone available?
 * BigRedS doesn't do printers
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> I posted the question in kubuntu but will post it here as well
<safiyyah> Hi all, just moved from ubuntu 14.04 to kubuntu and I had my printer working with no issue in ubuntu, however in Kubuntu after installation, it says it's idle and claims to have finished jobs sent to it (but it never even printed them) . It's a brother mfc-j430w
<safiyyah> Oh my I got the printer going, 2.5 hours later!!!!!
<safiyyah> what was life like before google?
<safiyyah> lol, it's one hurdle to the next.... no joy on the scanner! urghhhhhh!
<safiyyah> trying to format a usb stick and gparted says it's unallocated, all options to format are greyed out
<safiyyah> anyone?
<brobostigon> are you running it as root?
<safiyyah> there is nothing on it
<safiyyah> it previously was the startup disk for ubuntu 14.04, but then I deleted everything from the terminal and now I can't format it
<safiyyah> There is nothing under flags in gparted
<safiyyah> used says --- and unused says ---
<brobostigon> gksudo gparted . in terminal will launch it as root, and should work.
<safiyyah> brobostigon,  got it going, little one spotted the problem!
<brobostigon> and it was?
<safiyyah> it was unallocated because everything was deleted. So needed to right click, > everything was greyed out except 'New' > needed to click 'New'
<safiyyah> didnt see it, my son spotted it.
<brobostigon> ah,
<czajkowski> oh viber works very nicely on the Ubuntu desktop
<czajkowski> \o/
<czajkowski> it's easier to get Viber to work on Ubuntu than Skype!
<zmoylan-pi> time for microsoft to buy vibre? :-)
<czajkowski> hush you
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: czajkowski and google+
<czajkowski> davmor2: any ideas on how to get skype installed on utopic ?
<diddledan_> microsoft can't buy google+ unless they seriously up their cash reserves
<diddledan_> basically google won't sell + without the entire google empire
<davmor2> czajkowski: yes I'm not telling you how but yes :P
<diddledan_> which would be a lot of $
<zmoylan-pi> well after firing 10s of 1000s of staff their cash reserves will start to improve
<diddledan_> I doubt even apple could buy out the google empire
<diddledan_> an oil company might have the chops but it'll be tight
<diddledan_> google is currently worth approx 370b$
<zmoylan-pi> google is *perceived* to be worth $370b
<diddledan_> apple about double that
<diddledan_> at 615b$
<czajkowski> http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34954848?tmad=c&tmcampid=35&utm_campaign=buy-alert&utm_content=contact-type-listing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=alert
<czajkowski> bah
<MartijnVdS> http://store.dftba.com/products/hashtag-octothorpe-shirt
<Laney> ()
<Laney> if you use the ubuntu font these brackets don't line up
<Laney> SICKENING
<diddledan_> Laney: they do on osx - it must be an x11 issue
<diddledan_> or gtk
<diddledan_> (yes I have the ubuntu font on osx)
<diddledan_> I'm using ubuntu mono regular
<Laney> it goes away at larger sizes for me
<foobarry> anyone around?
<Myrtti> to some degree
<foobarry> friend called on behalf of a lady who got scammed
<foobarry> they phoned her and got Â£150 out of her
<foobarry> she got the money back,
<zmoylan-pi> this is microsoft support...?
<foobarry> but then they called again later pretending to be the bank who were processing the refund and then said HAH we've locked you out of your pc and need Â£400 wired to western unin account
<foobarry> don't know any more details, and don't have the pc, but does it sound familiar
<foobarry> ?
<foobarry> wondering if just changed password, or something worse
<zmoylan-pi> haven't heard of that one.  goes to google...
<shauno> that'd be a variant I haven't heard of either (and I spend all day reading the internet  heh)
<foobarry> thats as much as i can glean without seeing the pc
<shauno> only ransomware I've come across is the crypto* family
<foobarry> i can also find chatroulette blackmail
<foobarry> i tihnk its more manual than ransomware
<foobarry> maybe i'll find out if she needs the docs on the pc
<foobarry> and wipe it
<zmoylan-pi> go to backup and recover
<shauno> if you're willing to help her with it, yeah, that's what I would aim for.  tell her to leave it off * unplugged until you get there.  dump the disk to backup & nuke it.  then work backwards from there to see what data you bring back
<zmoylan-pi> i'd drop in new disc and plug old disc into linux system to pull data off it after scanning it
<foobarry> what filesys does win7/8 use nowadys
<zmoylan-pi> ntfs
<foobarry> wow. old school
<zmoylan-pi> as broken as ever it was
<foobarry> bad doggy http://imgur.com/ChLC3va
<foobarry> yes thats wet cement
<zmoylan-pi> i think every foot path around here has cat prints in the cement.
<safiyyah> night all
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-25
<mapps> hi all
<Myrtti> mornin
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<dutchie> morning zmoylan-pi
<foobarry> morning
<foobarry> waiting for the first person to broach the subject of central heating
<foobarry> in our house
 * zmoylan-pi put winter duvet on bed last night, what is this central heating you speak of?
<foobarry> my facebook feed suggests it's been women so far
<zmoylan-pi> 15 tog duvet.  snoozy warm duvet
<zmoylan-pi> only missing a cat to purr at end of it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<hazrpg> hey guys, I want to know why all the tutorials online seem to encourage using a PPA to install MATE (Desktop Environment) when  it is in the standard repo, is there any issues using the standard repo version of MATE? I'm using the normal ubuntu 14.04.1  (amd64)
<penguin42> hazrpg: It's only just landed in the main repo
<hazrpg> penguin42: Ah! That would make sense, so presumably it is safe to use for everyday use?
<penguin42> hazrpg: I've not tried the ones in the main repo, my dad has been using the ones from the PPA for a few years
<hazrpg> penguin42: Cool. Do you know if it disrupts packages that Unity uses? E.g. nautilus, etc.
<penguin42> hazrpg: No, but it gets a little confusing - they have different names for the mate equivalents, and you sometimes find yourself running the wrong one - you often have both on the menus
<penguin42> hazrpg: So for example the equivalent of nautilus is caja; the different names are there to let both live side by side
<hazrpg> penguin42: that makes sense
<hazrpg> penguin42: do you get the same problem with say network manager too?
<hazrpg> penguin42: and do you end up with two of everything in the indicator bar?
<penguin42> hazrpg: I'm not sure, the stuff at the back of network manager is shared, it's just the GUI that would be different
<penguin42> hazrpg: My dad just uses mate so he doesn't hit the problem
<hazrpg> penguin42: hmm, might try it out
 * brobostigon just uses straight gnome3, so has none of these issues.
<hazrpg> penguin42: It's not that I hate Unity, I mean I've been using it for a long while now (since Natty?), I just hate how much of a hog it is.
<hazrpg> brobostigon: heyo o/
<brobostigon> afternoodlings hazrpg
<hazrpg> brobostigon: I considered using gnome3 - but I think the top bar on each window seems too large (although I do really like the use of that space for extra cool buttons - something I thought Ubuntu was going to add when they changed the button placement)
<brobostigon> hazrpg: i dont see why you couldnt create your own interface theme, and change that.?
<hazrpg> brobostigon: Oh, so the size isn't fixed? :)
<brobostigon> hazrpg: i am not sure, but i do know, different interface themes can be applied, to change those elements.
<hazrpg> brobostigon: cool, might look into that
<brobostigon> cool,
<safiyyah> ali1234, are you about?
<safiyyah> having trouble with evolution colours, anyone have experience with it ? Here are the images
<safiyyah> <safiyyah> http://postimg.org/image/jkgss9l0f/   and
<safiyyah> <safiyyah> http://postimg.org/image/9bobmfwyn/
<ali1234> that bug again?
<ali1234> i thought we fixed that
<ali1234> did you install all updates?
<ali1234> safiyyah: are you using only ubuntu packages and is everything up to date?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: seems like fun - is it ok if I ask you a question and then also disappear ;)
<ali1234> very funny
<penguin42> ?
<ali1234> he asked me a question and then left
 * brobostigon is trying activity tracking on his pebble with newer fw again, hoping it wont send it into a recovery loop again.
<foobarry> Mate DE: desktops for dads
<ali1234> my dad uses unity
<penguin42> foobarry: Well, it works well on lower end/older machines and it works exactly like Gnome 2 which he knows how to use
<ali1234> but he's more of a grandpa
<ali1234> the dash is great for people with absolutely no long term memory
<foobarry> probably a catchier slogan that "born before 1979? you might like MATE"
<foobarry> "remember Live Aid? you might prefer old school desktop"
<penguin42> foobarry: Hey youngster....
<ali1234> lol foobarry
<ali1234> dads were born in the 80s now
<ali1234> you are getting old
<popey> also, sexist
<popey> â»
<foobarry> i don't know what mums use
<popey> mumbuntu of course
<foobarry> my wife is a mum and uses unity
 * penguin42 gave his mum unity
<penguin42> she doesn't use much - just knows to click the icons down the side
<ali1234> my mum doesn't like unity
<ali1234> no menus
<penguin42> it's her first OS so she doesn't know what to expect
<ali1234> yeah i've noticed that people tend to like unity if they have never used anything else
<penguin42> and yes I think the hidden menus do confuse
<DJones> foobarry: Bon in the 60's, not a dad, so Unity will do for me :)
<DJones> s/bon/born/
<nucc1> are the menus still in the top bar?
<nucc1> I always found them to be too far away from where I want them to be
<brobostigon> new dr who, :)
<DJones> Has Capaldi been replaced already?
<webpigeon> ?!
<webpigeon> oh, it's saturday!
<shauno> did someone forget to write that episode?
<halt> HI All, planing to build my drem setup at home, and I realized that I'm not sure about the software implementations, what I try to do, is to have an low footprint desktop machine, which I still cloud for avarage browsing ant etc, but I what to back it up, with a bit more power in case I start to to power intersive stuff, like 3D drawing, or calculation, etc, how can I move task between the two setup ? ( the motivation is to be green and to not use to much
<halt> power if it's not needed, but if i what to then bust it up )
<halt> The small propably will be an small Intel NUC and the big guy an Aleutia M200
<mapps> gotta stop this drinking and smoking
<mapps> its crimina how cheap it is here
<ali1234> if you want to be green just buy an i5 and ssd
<mapps> i cant help myself:D
<this> hi
<halt> ali1234: the NUC is the one probably just i3 not i3 because of the 2 HDMI port but that's the smaller, I need an additional extra calculation power sometimes, and I'm not sure what's the best way to combine the power of two box, in general, since the MPI like solutions are quite limited, and I what to be able to push more general applications over  to the bigger machine
<ali1234> there's really no point in doing that at all
<ali1234> CPUs sleep to save power
<ali1234> if you buy two computers instead of one, you are just wasting the energy used to manufacture them
<ali1234> and then dispose of them when they are obsolete
<ali1234> anyway if you insist on doing this, the answer is it depends what software you want to run
<halt> "CPUs sleep to save power" what do you mean by that ?
<halt> and how would you handle the need of more then an 4 cores i5 ? sometimes i need 16 cores xeon  currently I keep making snapshot of the desktop system to the nas, then turn on the server, and start the snapshot of the vm there
 * penguin42 doesn't think that's such an odd approach
<ali1234> if you really need 16+ cores then okay
<ali1234> you need software written specially to work across multiple nodes
<MartijnVdS> like.. the kernel's IP stack?
<ali1234> no, like a blender renderfarm
<MartijnVdS> or that
<penguin42> or distcc
<halt> I'm aware that to run on multi nodes is difficult and require special apps, that's why I was thinking to move the app across to the other more powerfull box in general, and with netwokr shave mount the current data, and also tunnel the x across with ssh
<halt> I'm reading about the criu project now that's also looks promising
<penguin42> oh yeh that's quite wacky, I keep meaning to look at it
<halt> wow this crui is maybe the solution http://criu.org/Live_migration   it could move across a whole process tree, I still have to resolve the data consistency but that's easy with DRBD
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-26
<daftykins> webpigeon: you and your IPv6 are BROKEN, SIR!
<shauno> :(
<daftykins> shauno: morning o/ how do?
<shauno> same old same old :)
<shauno> I just discovered the existance of 'dual port ram', which is going to make a little project I'm playing with much more interesting
<penguin42> time itself has been reversed
<zmoylan-pi> any time gained will be lost by most as they putter around changing clocks
<shauno> hm.  for some reason I thought that at 3am, it went back to 2
<penguin42> (that's also a line from a particularly corny film)
<ali1234> if time was rebersed, how would you know?
<zmoylan-pi> the first time you went for a poo :-p
<ali1234> after it happened you would have no memory of it because it hasn't happened yet
<shauno> I caught an odd bit on reddit though, that some spanish trains handle this by just stopping for an hour
<penguin42> haha
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> someone raised a fair point, apparently some local clubs have had a debate with local police to say that surely they can open an hour longer?
<ali1234> how is that a fair point?
<shauno> would they be happy to close an hour earlier in spring?
<zmoylan-pi> their licence says the time they close at
<shauno> I'd assume the logic is "if I have to close at 1am .. which 1am"
<shauno> which is quite simple because at 1:01, they're in violation
<zmoylan-pi> their logic is, stay open, make money
<ali1234> "okay, you have to close for an hour, everyone has to stand outside, then you can open again at 1am for 1 minute"
<ali1234> is how that conversation ended
<zmoylan-pi> of course they'll all be prosecuted for loitering outside
<daftykins> i've been drinking, leave me alone with your logic :P
<daftykins> or rather don't because i think your logic will beat me up.
<zmoylan-pi> this is where you use drunken singing to brow beat logic
<shauno> well, I think I'm going to take this as a second chance to go to bed at a reasonable hour
<shauno> otherwise I'd be defeated by the realisation that I spent the "free" hour debating the free hour.
<daftykins> shauno: that's a dangerous realisation
<daftykins> sleep well!
<foobarry> bring back BST
<foobarry> nobody told the kids about the lie in
<SuperEngineer> BST for Englsand, GMT for Scotland... a nice bit of devolved power & everybody happy :D
<foobarry> +1
<MartijnVdS> yeah BST is GMT+1 :P
<SuperEngineer> BST = Beer Sipping time.  GMT = Glenfiddich Moderation Time
<SirMarky> Hello - can someone help me with a problem booting 14.10 on my laptop?
<SirMarky> 13.10 and 14.04 both boot fine with UEFI and Secure Boot.  I have never had an issue with either.  However 14.10 won't boot.  The laptop complains no boot device is available.
<SuperEngineer> SirMarky: I'm not sure if this is relevant but are you sure you use the 64bit ISO?
<SuperEngineer> *used
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SirMarky> SuperEngineer - yes, I am.  First I simply did an over the air update from 14.04.  After the laptop didn't boot, I downloaded the ISO, burned to a USB key and installed from that.  I have tried reformmating the SSD and recreating the EFI, Swap and / partitons, but no joy.  I reinstalled 14.04 and all was well.  Something in 14.10 is stopping the boot from working but I'm lost as to what.
<SirMarky> My desktop boot and it too uses UEFI and an SSD with 14.10.
<SirMarky> The laptop BIOS settings haven't been touched, but I investigated anyway to see if anything in there may help but cannot see anything to stop it.  Fast boot is off but it has to be so I can start with the USB boot stick.
<SirMarky> I am thinking the EFI boot certificates have changed since the last release.  Also, unlike the desktop, there is no MBR on the SSD partition.  I see no reason why it should with EFI but perhaps I am wrong.
<SuperEngineer> does it have a dual boot [UEFI & BIOS compatibilty] setting you could use?
<SirMarky> I tried to use BOOT-REPAIR but there is no option for EFI when running on the live disc and cannot make it run from the USB stick because it complains about secure boot.
<SirMarky> Yes - I thought of that and tried it too.  I disabled secure boot (which I don't want to do) and tried again, but again it wouldn't boot.
<SuperEngineer> [hmm...if anyone hears the noise of someone grasping at straws... that's me]
<SirMarky> 14.10 hasn't been good to me so far.  I spent all day fixing a video driver problem on my desktop and the laptop has me flumuxed!
<SuperEngineer> have you tried the forums to see if other's have this prob & found answers?
<SirMarky> What I don't understand is what has changed between 14.04 and 14.10 with EFI.  It may help me a little more if I did.
<SirMarky> I posted in askubuntu and ubuntuforums.  Nothing.  Not a whisper.
<SirMarky> A similar problem was seen with the Samsung Activ Book, but I can't reproduce the solution as boot-repair won't boot.
<SuperEngineer>  hmmm, sorry - out of ideas... keep searchin & hang around in case anyone else has answers
<SuperEngineer> [one last thought - have you read the "lnown issues" for the release. Anything there?]
<SuperEngineer> *lnown
<SuperEngineer> *Known
<SirMarky> Yes.  I checked the known issues.  There is one that matches a problem left in the desktop but nothing for this on the laptop.
<SuperEngineer> YUK
<SirMarky> Does the live CD/USB stick use UEFI to boot?
<SuperEngineer> not sure but I assume it probably does
<SirMarky> That would make it more confusing then.
<SuperEngineer> anyone here know the answer to the above?
<SirMarky> I usually use BTRFS on the disc, but have tried with EXT4 as well.
<SuperEngineer> ...there's aleways the possibility of a corrupt image on the stick/usb  have you checked it?
<SuperEngineer> ...or the dvd ...or the original downloaded ISO [md5 check it?]
<SirMarky> Yes.  I downloaded another and tried again.  But I don't think it is as I originally tried an over the air update.
<SuperEngineer> scratching my head now!
<mapps> geez
<mapps> i ony jus got in
<mapps> thought i was gonna die
<mapps> tooo much k:(
<ujjain> Does anybody know if a My Moneybuilder ISA would be a stock or cash ISA? http://www.topcashback.co.uk/scottish_friendly/
<ujjain>  Get cashback once premiums invested in your plan total Â£80 and your ISA has been set up for more than 30 days.  < So I just need to give them 80 pound and they give me 84 pound cashback?
<ujjain> ISA limit is until end of tax year, e.g. april, right?
<ujjain> not december
<penguin42> correct
<foobarry> who are these booksellers who can sell new books for half the price of amazon~?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that's the ones who don't make the publishers angry by trying to offer cheap ebooks
<foobarry> s/don't/do ?
<penguin42> foobarry: The pricing on Amazon is very algorithmic for a lot of sellers and thus quite confusing
<penguin42> foobarry: There was some examples a while ago where they reached silly prices because of interacting pricing algorithms on different vendors
<penguin42> foobarry: But where did you find somewhere cheaper?
<foobarry> penguin42: on amazon marketplace
<foobarry> book which has â¬29 RRP selling for Â£21 on amazon but other sellers selling new for 12.78+2.80 postage
<penguin42> oh on marketplace
<penguin42> it was marketplace I was referring to the price setting systems
<foobarry> not sure they have better buying power than amazon
<foobarry> so wonder how they sell brand new book (only just released) for much cheaper
<penguin42> but how much do they buy them for anyway?
<foobarry> dunno
<foobarry> looks a nice book though http://canfora.se/campaign/#book-first
<penguin42> I'm sure Amazon tries to get them as cheaply as possible from the publisher, but that doesn't mean that they sell them cheaply
<hazrpg> hey all\\o
<shauno> 'lo haz
<zmoylan-pi> and what would be the price difference between a physical book and an ebook to amazon when there's bugger all manufacturing cost
<penguin42> how odd
<hazrpg> Something I just noticed on 14.04.1 is that the brightness doesn't seem to work anymore, does anyone know how to solve this? The last thing I did was changed from using bumblebee to nvidia-prime, and it stopped it from working.
<hazrpg> shauno: lo :)
<hazrpg> shauno: hows it going dude?
<shauno> same old same old :)
<hazrpg> know that feeling
<SuperEngineer> currently burning Ubuntu_Mate to DVD...
<SuperEngineer> Q/ any known "advice" if I choose to use it to fill my empty partition [e.g. separate swap space to main [encrypted] swap advised]
<SuperEngineer> ah well ... here goes... let's try it live from DVD first [this should be fun] ;)
<penguin42> sharing encrypted swap might be a little hairy, sharing normal swap should work
<brobostigon> join #aspietalk
<brobostigon> sowwie.
<hazrpg> brobostigon: don't worry about it dude ^_^
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> connectivity issues.
<MooDoo> afternoon
<MooDoo> rats I've pressed something now I'm in a screen zoom
<MooDoo> logout cured it.
<hazrpg> I really need to find a fix for this brightness - its almost blinding me
 * zmoylan-pi hands hazrpg a pair of sunglasses :-p
<hazrpg> zmoylan-pi: ^_^ - I actually need a new pair :P - my old ones got smushed by the car door >_<
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully the only thing crushed by the car door :-/
<ali12341> MooDoo: alt + mouse wheel
<MooDoo> thanks ali12341 drove me nuts, but I'm back on ubuntu lts at the moment :D
<SuperEngineer> just installed ubuntu mate 14.10 [not as main system but to try]... in 1 word: impressed, in 2 words: it's good, in 3 words: I'm keeping it.
<foobarry> A
<foobarry> DD
<foobarry> arghvhidl g child
<foobarry> couldn't minimise in time
<diddledan_> o_O
<omni3> hi, my 12.10 ubuntu machine recently crashed during an attempted update, and as a result i seem to have lost almost all functionality.  network connections disappeared, it doesn't recognise any usb drive (including an attempt at booting to the latest 14.10 usb live).  I can't load gparted, I get a bunch of ubuntu has encountered a system error and stuff.  Initially i wanted to save a few files, but now I just want an easy
<omni3>  way to boot to a usb and format and start again.  Any one have experiences where a crash just seems to lose all drive and network functionality, even during boot stage?
<omni3> when I disable all boot options but usb, i get the "reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key"
<foobarry> maybe the partition is full, and the update was incomplete
<foobarry> hence breakage
<omni3> it shouldn't be full, it was barely used, mainly just for streaming
<foobarry> sometimes F11 or F12 offers a boot menu to choose boot device
<omni3> i've found the boot device priority, i just disabled everything but usb, but get the error above
<omni3> i can boot to ubuntu desktop, but there's no functionality, hardly any app/program opens without providing a system error
<foobarry> doesn't sound like the usb key was prepared properly
<foobarry> how did you create it?
<omni3> windows unetbootin
<omni3> selected iso
<omni3> rather than the presets
<foobarry> hmnn
<foobarry> there's a really good windows one, i forget the nane now :(
<daftykins> omni3: can you run memtest?
<daftykins> it's an option on the live USB's boot menu
<omni3> i don't get that far
<omni3> <omni3> when I disable all boot options but usb, i get the "reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key"
<omni3> is what i get if i disable all boot options but usb, doesn't go to usb boot menu
<daftykins> ah yes
<foobarry> recheck the iso downloaded correctly
<daftykins> how did you make up the drive?
<foobarry> and redo the usb
<daftykins> !md5
<lubotu3> To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows
<penguin42> omni3: Is it an EFI machine or plain bios?  I just ask because I ehard unetbootin is a bad idea for uefi
<daftykins> ^ me too
<daftykins> omni3: what OS is on the computer you made up the flash drive with?
<omni3> honestly, i can't remember, we're talking 2 years ago i initially set it all up
<omni3> windows 8.1
<omni3> rebooting to bios setup i'll find out the answer to penguin42 question
<daftykins> ok grab Universal USB Installer from pendrivelinux.com
<daftykins> check the hash of the ISO you downloaded to be sure, then format that drive thoroughly before using the above to remake it
<foobarry> guys, can wine handle symlinks?
<foobarry> under .wine
<daftykins> really, playing with boot priority is counter-intuitive in my book. i would try and use a one-time boot menu where possible
<diddledan_> foobarry: I would expect windows apps to see a symlink as a file
<omni3> regarding boot priority, it was the only way i could ensure it was trying to boot to usb, as i couldn't get it to recognise a cd, usb or anything it kept booting to disk
<daftykins> i understand, if you can get a menu though it's definitely preferable
<omni3> i'm in bios setup now, penguin42 - where would i find if it's efi or bios?
<daftykins> if you can share a make and model of system that might help answer that
<omni3> mozart ip media lab, 2gb ram
<omni3> that's all I have (it's a friend's media pc he gave me ages ago, I don't have the specifics)
<omni3> sorry, I feel like I'm being so unhelpful with this
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/MSFTnews/status/524262781592539136
<daftykins> diddledan_: *gasp*!
<daftykins> omni3: ah, thermaltake?
<daftykins> VF3001BNS?
<daftykins> looks like just a custom case
<foobarry> MS <3 profits and lies
<omni3> yes, daftykins - looks about right
<daftykins> foobarry: lies? MSN messenger reportedly ran on Linux for years
<daftykins> omni3: it may be more relevant to share a motherboard make and model if you could pop the case off, then
<omni3> ah, that's going to be a pain the way it's mounted. let me see if I can find something more specific, I could probably get access, but we're talking a 15-20 minute job to get it out of the mount and get the stuff to take off the case
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> perhaps it's worth focussing just on the flash drive re-making
<omni3> yes, i'm just looking at the md5 thing now
<popey> Morning
<popey> Feels like Saturday here. Got the day off tomorrow \o/
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> popey: Bah!
<omni3> daftykins: http://releases.ubuntu.com/utopic/ - which file do I download to run against the md5 check?
<omni3> or just get the md5 value to paste in
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes
<popey> those are the right hashes
<omni3> doesn't match! :( does that just mean the download was corrupted? I got it from the ubuntu website
<omni3> wait
<omni3> ignore me
<popey>  /ignore omni3
<omni3> I've not downloaded 14.10 i've done 14.04
<omni3> the md5 matches
<popey> ah okay. great!
<daftykins> ^ i did suspect you may've been looking at the wrong version
<daftykins> i'd definitely stick to 14.04.1 right now
<omni3> ok, that's all good then, I just didn't pay enough attention during the check
<omni3> ok, going to use that universal usb thingy
<daftykins> good stuff
<daftykins> make sure to tick the ol' format button
<omni3> does this format automatically?
<omni3> there's no format option
<daftykins> should be a tickbox eventually
<popey> in the manual partitioning there is
<daftykins> popey: this is Universal USB Installer from pendrivelinux.com
<daftykins> for making up the drive
<popey> wat
<daftykins> not booting is the issue at the moment
<popey> what is this nonsense?
<daftykins> so we're remaking the flash drive
<daftykins> (windows PC)
<popey> we dont use unetbootin anymore?
<omni3> i used that first time around and it's not worked
<daftykins> never used that on Windows - there were tales for a long time that it broke a few use cases, mostly EFI though i think so i dunno
<daftykins> i'm just suggesting what i know to work :)
<omni3> http://imgur.com/k6wVI6b
<omni3> that look right?
<daftykins> yeah, i'm a little concerned at no format option though
<omni3> i can't format in windows
<daftykins> i might do it from the OS and be sure to select FAT
<omni3> it just goes forever
<daftykins> how come?
<omni3> no idea
<daftykins> are you using USB ports directly on the motherboard via the rear IO panel, or case ports?
<omni3> I do have a second usb stick if needed, i was just going to keep it as it's a bigger capacity incase i can get into usb live and possibly save file
<omni3> case ports
<omni3> on the media drive, and it's a laptop on my windows machine
<daftykins> can you share a screenshot of diskmgmt.msc showing the flash drive?
<omni3> yeah sure, hang on a mo
<daftykins> i'd definitely do OS boot tasks from the motherboard ports though
<omni3> ok, i'll work for that once the iso is put on the usb properly
<omni3> http://imgur.com/BZwYaZo
<daftykins> oh interesting, it's raw
<omni3> the "RAW" filesystem is weird
<daftykins> omni3: ok close UUI for now and run a command prompt with admin rights, are you familiar with cmd?
<omni3> and brings back bad memories
<omni3> relatively
<daftykins> ok in cmd, run 'diskpart' then type "list disks"
<daftykins> you'll see the 4GB one that corresponds to the flash drive, so then type "select disk #" where # is its' number
<daftykins> then type "clean"
<foobarry> or try an app called rufus
<foobarry> http://rufus.akeo.ie/
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> omni3: how far did you get?
<omni3> hey sorry, phone rang, i'm here
<omni3> just told it to clean the 4gb one
<daftykins> cool
<daftykins> it should say that completed successfully, then you can quit out and re-run diskmgmt.msc and try selecting to create a new primary partition with FAT
<omni3> it seems to be taking it's time
<omni3> *its
<daftykins> hmm, your drive / that system sounds iffy
<daftykins> i'd definitely switch to using the motherboard ports
<omni3> it's a laptop
<omni3> ah
<omni3> we have an error
<daftykins> mmm?
<omni3> one sec, i'm loading the event long
<omni3> The IO operation at logical block address 0x0 for Disk 1 (PDO name: \Device\000000bd) was retried.
<daftykins> that drive sounds like it's toast
<daftykins> as you said your other drive is larger, you can actually partition it if you want - or you can still write data to it even after Ubuntu is on there
<penguin42> yeh that doesn't sound good
<omni3> that's fine, it was a free usb one, that was nice and convenient for stuff like live usb's and stuff
<omni3> just put the other usb drive in, there's a format option this time
<omni3> this seems far more promising
<omni3> should I set anything in the "persistent file size" option?
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> that's only when you want to keep an installation on the drive, sort of thing
<daftykins> or keep changes, rather
<omni3> I see
<omni3> running it now
<omni3> I get the feeling that I probably wouldn't have had any of these problems if I'd used this usb disk at the start, and I'd have booted into the live usb and probably have installed ubuntu again.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> you can probably do the data recovery pretty easily too
<omni3> yeah i just need to get into a ubuntu system (or any really) with working network and drive functionality. I'm no linux expert, but I'm not a moron, so should be reasonably ok :D
<omni3> ok, the installation is done
<omni3> let's see if it boots this time
<daftykins> :)
<omni3> same error on boot
<omni3> I've used the port at the front, and the port at the back on the case :(
<diddledan_> f11
<omni3> does nothing
<diddledan_> while the post is running
<omni3> yup
<omni3> pressed through the entire boot
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> there should be some helpful text that lets you know what the button is
<daftykins> besides a logo typically
<omni3> only delete for bios
<omni3> let me try again
<daftykins> do you get a logo for the brand of motherboard at all?
<omni3> yes, i just pressed all of f2, f8, f10, f11, f12, and i have a boot menu
<omni3> there's no usb option
<diddledan_> find the disk by name
<omni3> it's only showing the hdd and the cd drives
<daftykins> this is currently in the motherboard IO panel USB?
<omni3> yes, at the back
<omni3> if needed, i can take a photo of the screen or anything required
<omni3> and I don't blame any of you if you just can't be arsed (I have horrendous luck with harddrives and partitions, to the point that it's a genuine curse)
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> i would definitely like to identify the motherboard here
<daftykins> any info on brand or model from inside the BIOS?
<daftykins> a picture of the main screen there would be handy
<omni3> ok, i can display the post, but I have less than a second to take the picture
<omni3> give me a minute or two to actually time it right
<daftykins> nah i mean hit delete and get into the screen there
<daftykins> unless you mean you see a model number or similar on the POST
<omni3> there's not a lot on the main screen, tad more in system information
<omni3> actually
<omni3> i'll do a video
<omni3> or take photos of all pages
<daftykins> *nod*
<omni3> uploading to imgur now
<omni3> bulba is a cracking analyst and commentator
<omni3> ah crap, wrong window.
<omni3> sorry
<daftykins> sounds like a fine gent
<daftykins> or lady
<omni3> (I'm watching the dota starladder tournament in the background)
<daftykins> ah i installed that but never even got around to trying it. it angers me how many frequent huge patches it gets =|
<omni3> haha, that's a good thing (generally)
<omni3> it's a great game, but it's got a horrendous learning curve
<omni3> don't expect to enjoy your first 200 hours or so
<omni3> still uploading photos (slow internet), 3/4
<diddledan_> holy banana, 200 hours of pain?!
<diddledan_> that sounds sucky
<daftykins> i hear nobody ever truly gets good at it, either
<omni3> yeah, pretty much. that's assuming you have someone who you can learn from really. if you're totally left to yourself, it can be awful. there's just so much to learn
<omni3> nah, you can get good
<omni3> i have around 1300 hours now, and I'm competent at it, although not particularly good
<daftykins> crikey
<omni3> right, Frx3Xar, AUmXKZS, A5aJrhn, j2Ury8c
<MartijnVdS> thnx for the passwords
<omni3> (needed to type it up)
<omni3> LOL
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/Frx3Xar.jpg
<daftykins> ;D
<omni3> I recognise your username, several years ago you once dedicated about 20-30 minutes of your time to help me on an issue
<omni3> MartijnVdS:
<daftykins> that looks a bit like an Asus
<MartijnVdS> omni3: I did? No problem :)
<omni3> asus sounds right, i'm trying to get a picture of the post display, as it's got a lot of info (probably helpful), but it's hard to time
<daftykins> ah no way it's a Q6600 just like my desktop
<daftykins> omni3: remember the ol' pause key
<omni3> so it's not just for decoratoin?
 * omni3 gets excited to finally see it in action
<daftykins> ah yes there we go, ASUS BIOS version 0414
<daftykins> no idea of model of motherboard though
<omni3> yeah all that's showing here
<omni3> ok, one sec
<omni3> new photo coming shortly
<daftykins> omni3: ok here's what i'd do, load the BIOS defaults then save and exit. plug in the USB flash drive to a motherboard port and power off, then power up and use F8 to get the boot menu
<omni3> :o
<omni3> I just did what you said
<omni3> and I saw something that I've not seen in 10 years
<omni3> "1st Floppy Drive"
<omni3> (there's no USB option)
<omni3> http://imgur.com/JmBj2Me
<omni3> for the post display
<omni3> we're in!
<omni3> changed port (again) at the back
<daftykins> oh my word
<omni3> and I'm on the usb menu
<daftykins> that's an Asus P5K
<daftykins> i think that's my mobo
<daftykins> :D
<omni3> is it any good? I only ever use it for streaming and media on my pc
<MartijnVdS> btw.. sabdfl sings now?
<MartijnVdS> compare:
<MartijnVdS> http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news-700/Mark-Shuttleworth-Says-that-Ubuntu-Is-Now-the-Biggest-OS-in-the-Cloud.jpg
<MartijnVdS> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61B-7wVkxxL.jpg
<daftykins> omni3: the LGA775 socket is ancient now, i built my setup 6 years ago. uses DDR2 as well, so nothing can be replaced as it's all old and dead generation
<daftykins> i'm typing from it now as my main desktop though :)
<daftykins> the Q6600 is an ace processor, coupled with 8GB RAM and SSDs, it flies
<omni3> ok, i mean this is 2gb ram and stuff, probably useless for anything really taxing
<omni3> ok, it loaded the live up successfully
<omni3> i'm going to backup a few things quickly, then install the full thing before my luck runs out
<penguin42> it was an ace processor about 10 years ago
<omni3> guys, daftykins, diddledan_, penguin42, foobarry and everyone who has helped me today, thanks so much, I really appreciate it
<daftykins> anytime sir :)
<daftykins> penguin42: aww, but it's lovely! :D
<daftykins> my VMs on a RAID-0'd pair of 300GB WD velociraptors fly
<daftykins> i'd get something new but i don't like spending until there's going to be a proper jump in performance again
<diddledan_> I've killed my QX6700 many times by using GPT instead of MBR partitioning (such as a hybrid-gpt+mbr) because my bios either doesn't support the spec completely or follows it too rigidly (I forget which)
<diddledan_> basically using gdisk to create a gpt label will cause the entire system to stall mid-post
<penguin42> oh that's annoying
<diddledan_> no errors, just a lack of progression through the remainder of the post cycle
<diddledan_> it gets to where you'd expect it to "detect hard discs" but the message never appears and it just sits there
<diddledan_> one sure way of getting it deadified is to install citrix xenserver
<penguin42> hmm, I hadn't spotted those but they look nice; haswell-E's 6 core/3.3GHz - #300 inc
<omni3> hey guys, if i might ask, how do I do a folder connection across a network between windows and ubuntu?
<omni3> I remember doing it before, and there's a specific term or something, but I can't remember
<omni3> what I want to do is just copy files across a network
<diddledan_> samba?
<omni3> that sounds familiar, do you remember how I set it up?
<omni3> do I do samba.ip?
<diddledan_> in ubuntu the simplest way is to open the file manager and "connect to server" with the address smb://ip-or-hostname/share-name
<diddledan_> that's accessing a windows folder in ubuntu
<diddledan_> for the reverse you need to jump through a few more hoops
<diddledan_> specifically you need to use smbpasswd(?) to set a password for the windows world and then you need to share the folder (easiest is through the file manager again)
<omni3> I see
<omni3> I have the theory right, that if I have a windows folder in ubuntu, I can just drag/drop into it?
<omni3> and that's all I need?
<diddledan_> anyone got a spare fortune? http://www.tranquilpcshop.co.uk/ubuntu-orange-box/
<zmoylan-pi> as a desktop pc?
<isleofmandan> A bit over-specced for my needs...
<popey> not really designed to be sold
<diddledan_> popey: that doesn't stop me wanting one :-p
<diddledan_> or two
<popey> heh, sure
<diddledan_> two would be good
<zmoylan-pi> well the weight and bulk rules out shoplifting for amateurs :-p
<popey> when i first saw them in the office I was one of many fawning over them
<diddledan_> great concept if you ask me - even though it's envisioned as a demo I can well believe that they'd be great for small business clustering
<diddledan_> I like the idea of "cloud in a box"
<zmoylan-pi> a server rack in a box
<daftykins> i've been given this by a friend, but it's got a dead battery and mains adapter - http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.2-white-13-late-2007-santa-rosa-specs.html
<diddledan_> but.. if it's a cloud in a box, won't it get wet? :-p
<daftykins> i don't think it's really even worth fixing up :/
<daftykins> pretty old spec
<daftykins> it can't take newer than OS X 10.7 i think
<diddledan_> daftykins: yeah the gfx was going to be a pain on more recent osx so they pulled support for them entirely
<diddledan_> I _think_ I'm correct in that anyway
<daftykins> wow!
<daftykins> in terms of 3D support for even the desktop?
<popey> i think i know someone who still rocks one of them
<popey> reminds me, i need to decide on a laptop before january â»
<zmoylan-pi> main purpose of laptop?
<popey> work
<zmoylan-pi> beefy v frugal v cheap
<popey> will probably end up going for the dell xps13 i imagine
<popey> neither frugal nor cheap
<popey> got my laptop budget set aside
<zmoylan-pi> then a gamers laptop that supports linux 100%
<popey> gamer = heavy + fans
<popey> dont really need nvidia
<diddledan_> it's rare for an off-the-shelf "windows" laptop to be 100% under loonix
<diddledan_> although it's certainly a LOT better than it used to be
<zmoylan-pi> some high end business laptop then?
<popey> optimus is the annoyance now then
<popey> i want 1080p or higher
<popey> higher would be awesome
<diddledan_> yeah the optimus is just nuts
<diddledan_> rawr: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B05lSJ9IAAAB2xQ.jpg
 * zmoylan-pi is tempted by http://pi-top.com/ :-)
<isleofmandan> 1080p is a mixed blessing. My XPS 13 isn't on full resolution. Everything is too small for my eyes if I use the native resolution!
<popey> you have the touch version?
<isleofmandan> nope
<popey> well, mostly it'll be connected to a 1080p display
<popey> maybe i should just save the money and get a high res desktop display and keep the laptop longer
<zmoylan-pi> a chromebook using data to link to beefy home pc?
<daftykins> popey: what are you kicking around these days, spec wise?
<popey> my x220 is coming up 3 years old in jan
<popey> i7, 16GB, 2x250GB SSD.
<isleofmandan> Better spec than XPS13. Keep the x220 :)
<popey> heh
<daftykins> nothing wrong with that!
<popey> out of warranty in jan.
<daftykins> oh i see
<zmoylan-pi> don't use it to fend off zombies after that date :-)
<popey> and I just got my laptop budget
<shauno> mine's starting to feel quite elderly too :(
<isleofmandan> Warranty? My XPS13 only had 12 months. That finished in the summer...  If it breaks, there are soldering irons :)
<daftykins> i'm tired of 1366x768 on this 13" Asus :(
<popey> ditto
<popey> i paid for 3 years NBD on the x220
<popey> have used is 4 times!
<daftykins> ! what died?
<lubotu3> I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<popey> i need my laptop for my job
<isleofmandan> Oh... Reliability issues then? I thought x220 was rock sold
<isleofmandan> solid
<popey> display, mobo, fan
<isleofmandan> ouch
<popey> so basically it's triggers broom
<zmoylan-pi> did you cause the hardware failures?
<popey> and anything i buy needs to last
<popey> no. duh
<popey> i asked lenovo if i could extend the warranty but they said no
<isleofmandan> Yep. I don't *need* my machine for work, so it's different for me.
<zmoylan-pi> well i've seen people do dumb things with hardware without thinking or accident or random
<popey> i mean, i have a desktop pc too, i could use that as a backup if needed
<shauno> I ran mine over with an office chair :)  I think that's on the 'dumb' scale somewhere
<isleofmandan> Yeah, but that relies on you keeping things in sync. Which nobody ever does properly.
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite was the brand new in 80s sharp laptop when it was a whole new idea and some rich plonker picked up laptop and threw it in back seat like he did with briefcase
<popey> right now I'm typing on my backup/backup x61
<popey> x61s in fact
<popey> (under windows tho)
<daftykins> Lenovos are pretty pricey
<popey> i got 20% off
<daftykins> i got an x240 i think it is for the boss a bit ago
<popey> the x1 carbon touch looks nice, but lenovo have gone mental with the keyboard
<MartijnVdS> detri-mental?
<popey> completely
<daftykins> yeah i saw that
<Myrtti> mÃ¤y I just say here: I â¥ LaTeX
<Myrtti> that is all
<Myrtti> continue
<daftykins> that's the one with the touch sensitive top row as well, right?
<isleofmandan> I used to like Lenovo machines until I met one! EFI/BIOS is buggy as can be: http://danw.info/2014/02/the-weirdest-bug-lenovo-ideapad-s205/
<daftykins> isleofmandan: hah that's crazy
<daftykins> probably got fixed in an update though ;)
<isleofmandan> I thought it's be a 15 min job over a cup of tea :)
<isleofmandan> Still, It's been going strong ever since. And Ubuntu has behaved impeccably. I'm slowly converting the island. One machine at a time...
<daftykins> i wouldn't like to be there for an upgrade
<daftykins> ;)
<isleofmandan> True :)
<daftykins> ooh i think i found a new sport
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/gallery/m09yFoF
<zmoylan-pi> full contact tiddywinks? :-)
<daftykins> even better than that!
<daftykins> isleofmandan: still, that's why we wisely rock LTS :D
<zmoylan-pi> giving pills to herd of cats speed competition? :-)
<daftykins> i'm actually typing from a lucid LTS server install, probably time i sort that out
<daftykins> only got... 6 months left now i think?
<isleofmandan> Actually I installed 14.10 on this laptop just the other day... My servers are all LTS though.
<daftykins> oh yeah, but for peoples you work on i mean
<isleofmandan> Oh yeah, usually recommend the LTS releases. Saves me having to go back and tinker.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<isleofmandan> Evening MooDoo
<MooDoo> ooo just running a 14.10 upgrade on this laptop as we speak :D
<isleofmandan> I went for a clean install (because I wanted to see if I could stop using 'legacy' ROM option in EFI)
<popey> hmm.. looking at other thinkpads
<popey> http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t440s/
<zmoylan-pi> lenovo seems to have dropped the ball with thinkpads.  don't see as many of them about
<popey> looks chunky
<isleofmandan> I'd pick a thinkpad over XPS13 if it was a machine I needed to depend on.
<popey> at the sprint last week it was all thinkpads, macs and dell xps's
<isleofmandan> Macs are most popular at our local code club. Seem to have cornered the developer market!
<daftykins> popey: i saw one solitary HP in one pic someone shared here :D
<popey> community team is 75% thinkpads
<popey> i didnt even use my charger once, used everyone elses
<zmoylan-pi> but how many of them are new thinkpads?
<popey> none
<popey> all 2+ years old
<zmoylan-pi> are any of them still ibm thinkpads lurking around? :-)
<daftykins> my current Asus does 8-10hrs, i can't wait until things are even better than that
<shauno> we have a couple of thinkpads knocking around at work
<shauno> they just won't die
<isleofmandan> Loads of thinkpad spares on Ebay too. Friend got a refurb machine for 60 quid, and a few parts from Ebay and now has a very nice machine for a shade over 100 quid.
<daftykins> that new battery technology that's meant to provide sub 30-min charge times sounds exciting
<popey> yeah, i bought this x61s for 60 quid
<zmoylan-pi> batteries shouldn't be exciting, that tends to suggest blast radius
<czajkowski> popey: welcome back
<popey> ta
<diddledan_> who does the uukstats page? ('cos it seems offline for the past few)
<dutchie> popey: i have a t440s
<dutchie> it's nice
<popey> diddledan_: brobostigon
<brobostigon> yes popey ?
<diddledan_> o/
<diddledan_> brobostigon: stats is down
<diddledan_> :-p
<brobostigon> ok, minute.
<brobostigon> diddledan_: and now?
<diddledan_> yup, working again
<diddledan_> ta
<brobostigon> i just restarted apache,
<diddledan_> heh
<MooDoo> brobostigon: remind me where they are again, I was looking for them the other day :)
<diddledan_> MooDoo: topic
<brobostigon> taylorworld.me.uk
<diddledan_> specifically: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat
<MooDoo> That's the ones :D   davmor2 I'm after you sir! :D
<MooDoo> diddledan_: you're loosing out as you have the _ ;)
<brobostigon> weird, something must have happened to apache,
<diddledan_> MooDoo: soon fix that
<diddledan> MooDoo: now it should know I'm both :-p
<brobostigon> anyways, sorry boys and girls.
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> they can't be right?  they have me above foobarry. and mapps.
<diddledan> I've been fiddling with pisg myself.. specifically to parse the entire history of ubuntu since the big bang as logged by ubuntulog_
<diddledan> http://ubuntu-irc-analysis.bowlhat.net/ <-- WIP
<shauno> wow.  some serious utf-fail across a lot of the locos
<diddledan> ouch
<shauno> you're welcome :)
<shauno> -ps is as messy as the same would imply
 * brobostigon puts bbc on, RHGN :)
<brobostigon> bbc2*
<daftykins> me, ali and Azelphur are active at the same sorts of times :>
<shauno> -ps seems to be logging server messages too.  "you're now know as .." is in in 22nd place
<MooDoo> big difference in some of the results between the too, take a look at czajkowski for instance.
<Azelphur> :)
<shauno> I also notice Azelphur is !ohmy on brobostigon's  ;)
<Azelphur> huh?
<MooDoo> brb upgrade to utopic has just finished and I need to restart
<shauno> the random quote it's showing me
<Azelphur> ah hehe
<diddledan> !ohmy
<lubotu3> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<shauno> ^ needs more Takei
<diddledan> !ohmyyy
<diddledan> does the bot learn?
<zmoylan-pi> gort, klatu barada niktu!
<shauno> I believe it learns, but it's very selective about its teachers
<diddledan> I tried msging it with "!learn something" but it didn't
<MooDoo> well that worked, upgrade successful
<diddledan> MooDoo: \o/
 * brobostigon has done 4500 steps today, and burned 950 calories according to his pebble today.
<zmoylan-pi> you tied your pebble to the dog? :-)
<brobostigon> heh :(
<diddledan> interesting - wordpress are leaving irc (for their dev talk)
<diddledan> https://make.wordpress.org/chat/
<shauno> lol @ friendly
<shauno> they're right, their channel isn't friendly.  but I don't believe the platform is the problem
<zmoylan-pi> and if you aren't on the android/ios bandwagon?
<zmoylan-pi> lost a valuabe few % right there
<diddledan> IRC is still used becasue it's a solid platform
<zmoylan-pi> and everywhere
<zmoylan-pi> is there a platform that can't irc?
<daftykins> "Many contributors arenât technical, and IRC can be a struggle for even technical users."
<daftykins> wat
<diddledan> speaking of "wat" https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
<daftykins> lol thats great
<daftykins> that drum playing t-rex, ermagerd
<diddledan> in terms of platforms' irc ability - pretty much everything can do it IIRC - maybe not DOS tho
<shauno> why not dos?
<diddledan> ircjr does dos
<diddledan> it'll even run on 8088 cpus
<diddledan> dos2.1+
<diddledan> http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/IRCjr.html
<shauno> yeah, I was gonna say mTCP.  pretty much anywhere there's a tcp stack, there's an irc client
<diddledan> going back to wordpress abandoning irc tho - they say it's complex, but it's the simplicity that draws me
<daftykins> i remember prior to my very first join i didn't understand the whole 'servers' thing, but once i got beyond that i quite enjoyed learning it all
<diddledan> "n00bs be like wtf is the font setting?!"
<daftykins> i suppose people of modern generations are petrified of commands though Â¬_Â¬
<shauno> I tried this slack, but I have to create another wordpress account (?) before I can create a slack account
<diddledan> shauno: you don't have a wordpress account?
<shauno> I thought I already had a wp account, but that was a wp.com account not a wp.org account
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> yeah
<shauno> and it wants a .org account before you can sign up for slack
<diddledan> that's a distinction I find odd
<shauno> that's about the point where I got bored :)
<diddledan> we use slack at work becuase shiny
<diddledan> I'd prefer to use irc
<shauno> that's different, you're wannabe hipsters.  you use node and all that other nonsense.
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> I tried turning on the irc gateway but it complained that I wasn't the account owner
<zmoylan-pi> i have a nokia s40 phone on irc.  runs all day without affecting the battery when i want it
<diddledan> one nice thing about slack is that it effectively maintains a history of everything that happens when you're awol so you can scroll-back even if you weren't logged-in at the time
<zmoylan-pi> that's what my pi is for :-)
<diddledan> heh
<zmoylan-pi> sits in kitchen next to wifi ap running on phone charger
<zmoylan-pi> and i find myself using the pi more and more for getting stuff done on computers connecting to it via ssh
<zmoylan-pi> no time/cpu/ram wasting gui :-)
<shauno> and here I just play sega on mine :)
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> i'm thinking a second pi with a hdmipi and running risc os on it as a laptop replacement
<shauno> a second?  you only have one?
<zmoylan-pi> an original b not the new shiny b+
<diddledan> with 256 or 512?
<shauno> seems there's an a+ coming too.  I wonder what they'll do with that
<zmoylan-pi> 512
<zmoylan-pi> more power frugal seems to be the direction
<diddledan> aah, I was an early adopter - my first two came with 256 each
<shauno> I've only got one with 256
<zmoylan-pi> even running the gui on startup it reports only using 150mb day to day
<shauno> it lives hoooked up to a breadboard as the 'victim' .. the one I care less about if I oops
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: do you run raspbian on it?
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<daftykins> i have not used one before
<diddledan> where's alanbell?! I want ubuntu on it already :-p
<daftykins> yeah, i haven't heard anything about that pi build project
<diddledan> the last word was an initial website set up with a photo of the cluster
<shauno> there's a guy at work uses one to irc past the web filter
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> libertos.org
<shauno> it's just a serial console & a 3g modem
<popey> i heard a rumour they are releasing a new pi soon, which will be armv7
<diddledan> :-o
<shauno> that'd make it ubuntable?
<popey> yes
<shauno> (I'm not sure if that's a word, but it's surprisingly easy to pronounce)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i concur!
<popey> AlanBell: if you come up with some specific blockers, maybe someone can help?
<zmoylan-pi> there will be no new pi other than a rehash of the model a.  at least that's the official line
<daftykins> maybe it'll be something with a new name
<popey> yeah, i dont believe that
<daftykins> rasperrycake
<daftykins> +p
<daftykins> oops +b
<zmoylan-pi> a model c is supposed to be 2 years away as they concentrate on a and b
<shauno> it's a "rock and a hard place" scenario.  I can understand that they don't want to facture the community, as the community is the only thing that makes the pi better than the various other sbcs
<zmoylan-pi> having a static platform is required for teaching
<zmoylan-pi> the longer it is around the more people will squeeze out of it
<zmoylan-pi> when the zx spectrum was first released it was considered a terrible platform for vector graphic games but programmers got smarter
<popey> yeah, i remember Starglider on the speccy 128 fondly
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> docking complete!
<popey> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3214002/ this evening
<daftykins> huzzah
 * popey hugs netflix
<daftykins> i prefer consistent quality :D
<shauno> my netflix is broken.  quite badly :(
<daftykins> how-so?
<shauno> it gives me the list of content from netflix-US
<shauno> but will only let me play things that are on netflix-ireland
<zmoylan-pi> i think that's to make you learn how to set up a vpn :-)
<shauno> nah.  I just steal what I need
<shauno> any time their incompetence makes piracy easier, I opt for piracy
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> it really shouldn't be a good thing though, right?
<shauno> I pay for netflix, I pay for iplayer-global ..
<shauno> I think I pay for the bbc twice, on iplayer-global & on cable.  but it's still easiest to get dr who & top gear off usenet
<shauno> something's very broken there
<popey> tomorrow is new tv day
<shauno> I keep telling myself I'll wait until I move :)
<shauno> I thought my plasma was the bees knees until I saw a friend's wafer-thing samsung thingie.  now I'm suspecting that this will be easier to give away than move when I finally go
<jussi> morning crazy UK peoples :)
<jussi> been a while since I have been around... :)
<popey> yeah, my plasma needs to go
<jussi> popey: what sort of tv will you upgrade to?
<shauno> when I eventually pull it off, I'm planning on moving to the continent.  which is why big heavy stuff like the TV gets an odd look and a ponder
<popey> an LED one smaller than current one
<jussi> popey: what is the current one?
<jussi> We have a really nice LED 42 inch LG
<jussi> it happens to have 3D on it, but its a gimmick, rarely used.
<popey> some crappy philips plasma
<jussi> big one? probably eats the electricty right?
<popey> 42"
<popey> probably, yeah
<jussi> we had an epic storm here last night: http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/wild-weather-huge-storm-hits-melbourne-and-western-victoria/story-fnjbnts5-1227103101936
<shauno> I wonder how messy it'd be to add overlays to retroarch
<shauno> I keep losing races because I pause a game for 30 minutes, go back to it and can't remember which button is Accelerate.  It could be interesting to overlay a map of the controller on the pause screen
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-19
<mapps> hi all
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Clean Your Virtual Desktop Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> but i've run out of virtual wipes...
<davmor2> JamesTait: hmmmmmm oh I know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUOtCLOXgm8  Virtual Reality Cleaning at least :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<JamesTait> davmor2, my god, it's full of stars!
<davmor2> JamesTait: Yean no idea why I blame brian may
<davmor2> JamesTait: it goes right after though
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Nice video.
<davmor2> JamesTait: What I always found deeply concerning is how much that look suited Roger, maybe he really is a woman :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, you and about 98% of the heterosexual male population. ð
<gasdgfadgsdf> Annyeoung
<davmor2> gasdgfadgsdf: What?
<MooDoo> davmor2: you mean you can't understand that?
<davmor2> MooDoo: not really
<MooDoo> davmor2: rubbish!
<davmor2> MooDoo: I am rubber, you are glue
<MooDoo> davmor2: so what you're saying is that up to a point i'm quite useful, then I become annoying? ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Look behind you, a Three-Headed Monkey!
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> ugggh
<popey> bash: /bin/dmesg: Input/output error
<jpds> popey: Fun
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12859337/ :(
<jpds> :(
<foobarry> SDD?
<foobarry> SSD?
<gasdgfadgsdf> I might buy a 1TB SSD
<popey> no, not SSD
<gasdgfadgsdf> SSD
<popey> running smart on it now
<daftykins> you just need to read the table usually popey - tests are pretty meh
<daftykins> sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdx | pastebinit
<daftykins> ;D
 * daftykins prepares the Queen track
<popey> yeah, it doesn't have many issues
<popey> Radio GaGa?
<popey> I want to break free?
<daftykins> Another One Bites the Dust :>
<popey> ahhh :D
<popey> I'd have got there eventually ;)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> d'aww our local Blacks shop is having a closing down sale
<daftykins> so no bad/reallocated/pending sectors, CRC errors or what not?
<popey> http://imgur.com/KOcdTkM
<daftykins> hardware ECC recovered on ID 195 is a bit bad, could try a cable and port change to see if you're lucky?
<daftykins> unless it's a lappy
<popey> desktop
<popey> yeah, could well be cable
<popey> wonder when the overheat was
<daftykins> mmm even 42 isn't ideal, 30s would be nicer
<diddledan> surely 42 is the best possible?
<daftykins> :)
<popey> heh
<popey> not a lot of cooling in this case
<popey> guess I should lob another fan in or something
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<gasdgfadgsdf> popey: omg I have the same problem!!!!!
<gasdgfadgsdf> popey: My CPU cooling solution is pathetic right now
<gasdgfadgsdf> popey: I'll probably just get a new case with better cooling
<popey> bigcalm: hows the steam controller?
<gasdgfadgsdf> popey: Using an RVZ02 with tiny Noctua cooler right now
<diddledan> I bought a fancy heatsink a while back but still haven't got around to installing it :-/
<bigcalm> popey: interesting. The ABXY buttons are not in a natural position though. Little bit of a reach to use. The dual touch pads are cool
<daftykins> gasdgfadgsdf: on what processor?
<gasdgfadgsdf> daftykins: i5 4690K
<daftykins> that does not strike me as wise :>
<diddledan> overcocked?
<gasdgfadgsdf> no
<daftykins> turbo won't help though :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<bigcalm> Hi intrbiz. All well?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: yeah, all good.  pretty busy
<intrbiz> bigcalm: but off to conferences next week and the week after
<bigcalm> Going for the learnin' or the beers?
<intrbiz> beers and networking mainly
<diddledan> free beer?
<diddledan> or libre beer?
<intrbiz> most likely
<intrbiz> bigcalm: how is life in shrewsbury?
<bigcalm> It's busy busy
<gasdgfadgsdf> daftykins: Turbo still activates itself
<daftykins> yes i know.
<daftykins> that was my point :)
<diddledan> lol - mythbusters cpu vs gpu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P28LKWTzrI
<daftykins> what a massive waste :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it isn't we were there all weekend absolutely nothing happened
<bigcalm> Subjective
<diddledan> ooh that sounds like a bad job: "internet explorer evangelist"
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju8x3z1LuCg
<bigcalm> Anybody here using Unifi APs?
<diddledan> I think m0nkey_ might have one, but he's prolly not here right now
<diddledan> he's in canadia
<zmoylan-pi> does th ejob for internet explorer evangelist come with a helmet? even if it is closing the door after the horse escaped the barn... :-)
<daftykins> comes with a can of mace
<zmoylan-pi> can i substitute my +3 mace? :-D
<daftykins> absolutely!
<daftykins> "hello i've come to complain about IE" *TZZZZT* "Aaaaah! Why? Oh please why?"
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sorry i thought as a regular user of ie that you'd be used to random pain...
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> lol - fitbit used to share sexual activity publicly
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't fitbit data used in a divorce case were it showed someone having sex?
<zmoylan-pi> pesky cloud data been used against the owner
<zmoylan-pi> they'll need a new law... taking the 404...
<directhex> a fitbit charge hr or surge will show the elevated heart rate, which lets you say "yes, i had sex at X time", but the timeline would be meaningless unless you knew what you were looking for
<directhex> all you can prove with it is "heart rate was elevated for X time at Y time", which might be enough in a divorce case
<diddledan> it's mentioned in this 30minute presentation with a screenshot of a public webpage driven by fitbit data that reports "sexual activity" for "4 hours" with "vigorous effort": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znwWYR1mzzw
<directhex> the only way it can report "sexual activity" is if you literally log sexual activity as an exercise session manually
<directhex> i stopped logging exercise at all, just the heart rate changes
<zmoylan-pi> i cannot seem to find the article.  i hate when that happens...
<daftykins> you'd think they'd take a watch off ;)
<diddledan> o_O https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-security/notifications-for-targeted-attacks/10153092994615766
<daftykins> person over in #ubuntu making up a flash drive on a mac, does the iso really need converting before dd can put it on a drive in OS X land? o0
<diddledan> no
<diddledan> just dd it as normal
<daftykins> mmm that's what i suggested trying
<daftykins> seems weird to convert to another image format beforehand, just duplication of work
<Azelphur> Anyone know if nautilus has any preferences, or any way to make it behave as it did in older versions of Ubuntu
<riyasmp> guys. thanks for help in advance. I m using ubuntu 14.04 LTS on samsung RV520 laptop. recently with a kernal upgrade it has sarted making a squeaky sound when on battery poer. sounds goes away completly when pluged in to AC power. googling did not help much. can any one give any kind of guidance to sort this. thanks
<popey> Azelphur: you could install caja which looks/feels like nautilus from the past
<Azelphur> popey: need nautilus plugins
<Azelphur> (or I'd just use Thunar)
<popey> such as?
<Azelphur> owncloud nautilus
<popey> you know caja is basically nautilus?
<popey> might actually be a plugin for that
<popey> not looked
<Azelphur> there isn't
<popey> shame
<popey> caja is basically nautilus before the gnome project lobotomised it
<popey> you'd probably be a hero if you ported the plugins :)
<diddledan> what big features did they remove that I might lust after from the old days?
<diddledan> I kinda just rolled with things and didn't really notice any changes
<popey> a functional toolbar
<popey> memory of which folder had which view set
<diddledan> aah yes, remembering view states could be a good thing to have back
<riyasmp> guys. thanks for help in advance. I m using ubuntu 14.04 LTS on samsung RV520 laptop. recently with a kernal upgrade it has sarted making a squeaky sound when on battery poer. sounds goes away completly when pluged in to AC power. googling did not help much. can any one give any kind of guidance to sort this. thanks
<m0nkey_> diddledan, I do and I'm back
<Myrtti> found an amazing Amazon review http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1CXMA5OD8H5FV/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0001IW7SO
<Azelphur> http://i.imgur.com/u2kZN3H.png I love having this many pixels to play with. \o/
<daftykins> now you need a higher res wallpaper!
<Azelphur> Amusingly that one was actually 4k, but yea I'm planning on doing a conky.
<daftykins> ah, looks bad zoomed in
<Azelphur> yea I agree, I think it was scaled
<Azelphur> although, I really want something better than conky, there was this thing called gtk-desktop-info which is perfect, but the author abandoned it 5 years ago
<Azelphur> do we not have any improvements on conky yet, like something that uses HTML/CSS for layout, or maybe even something GUI for layout
<diddledan> Azelphur, I wonder if nw.js might be coerced into something?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<daftykins> nn folks \o
<diddledan> daftykins, lightweight :-p
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> i'm being good since i got back
<diddledan> that's just giving-in
<diddledan> us vampyrs need to stick together :-D
<daftykins> to health and happiness :D
 * daftykins hisses
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-20
<diddledan> I want moar monitors
<diddledan> it'ld be nice if I could get one of my two 24inches fixed (it died - presumably psu)
<mapps> argh
<mapps> what the hell is wrong with me
<mapps> wiped out my entire betfair balance in one day - Â£7576
<mapps> i cant seem to learn
<zmoylan-pi> 1 legged horse at 1000-1 looked too good to pass up?
<diddledan> yeek
<mapps> no
<mapps> i bet  unders a lot like a fool:)
<mapps> being a negative person
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy, are you well brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> other than my eczema, yes.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<foobarry> somebody sent me an amazon.com gift card. turns out you can't redeem on amazon.co,uk
<bashrc> :)
<davmor2> foobarry: wompwompwomp.com
<foobarry> will probably buy kindle books
<davmor2> foobarry: but it is not pointing to your account so you can't access it right?  Or can you?
<foobarry> i entered the code on co.uk and it didn't work
<foobarry> its a lot shorter than uk ones
<foobarry> entered on .com and it worked
<foobarry> its not much munneh
<foobarry> just a token amount for a tech survey i filled in , $5
<davmor2> foobarry: try ringing the uk number and explain the problem
<foobarry> meh, for that amount, its not worth it, i can buy electronic stuff
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Brandied Fruit Day! ð  ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: you made me go there and now this will be stuck with you for the rest of the day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tou8-Cz8is
 * zmoylan-pi waits for know your vegtable day...
<davmor2> JamesTait: and what is worse now you'll be think about Beetlejuice all day too :D
<zmoylan-pi> beetlejuice?
 * zmoylan-pi sets trap....
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yes but you have to say it three times :P
<zmoylan-pi> say what?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: what?
<JamesTait> Betelgeuse?
<zmoylan-pi> i did like when it was done on community... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19FMU3M7Jtk
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<bigcalm> Oh, it got fixed
<davmor2> bigcalm: I so gonna slap you
<bigcalm> :D
<MooDoo> I'll get the popcorn
<bigcalm> I'll not be running it on any of my systems, but I do like teasing Canonical employees
<diddledan> oh, it's not out yet?!
<bigcalm> Seeding ubuntu-mate-15.04-desktop-i386.iso has a ratio of 571. popey: I take it that you'll be releasing a 5.10 version later
<davmor2> bigcalm: not likely 15.10 maybe
<bashrc> when is 15.10 due out?
<diddledan> bashrc thursday I think
<davmor2> bashrc: Thursday
<bigcalm> davmor2: heh :P
<zmoylan-pi> i never could get the hang of thursdays...
<bigcalm> Lets hope that it's not a lunch time release then
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, it's too close to friday to get you excited for the weekend but annoyed that it's not friday
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: if things go catastrophically wrong for a certain set of hardware then you have friday for a respin, If friday was release day then there would be no fixes till Monday leaving people without computers for the whole weekend
<diddledan> davmor2, are you saying that the release architects aren't committed enough to work through the weekend?!
<popey>  correct
<popey> They work hard enough during the week.
<zmoylan-pi> i spent a few saturdays onsite fixing things when someone demanded the big install be done on friday...
<diddledan> lol
<popey> No reason to actively force them to work on the weekend
<davmor2> diddledan: up till Thursday the guys will be online longer than I am
<diddledan> ok, I'll give a bit of leeway then :-p
<bigcalm> Sooooooo - letsencrypt.org - yay/nay?
<popey> Decided I needed loud music. Put my headphones on, forgot to start music player. Been sat here for an hour with my headphones on in silence.
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> that's impressive fail
<diddledan> it's the kind of thing I do
<zmoylan-pi> if it stopped people walking up and asking questions distracting you they worked :-)
<diddledan> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> if i were world dictator my first act would be to allow you to break an ibm model m keyboard over someone who asked someone coding what time is it?/what are thet doing? :-P
<davmor2> popey: D'oh!!!!
<bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: you sound like our junior dev :|
<zmoylan-pi> i had a boss who would insist on asking what i was working on... multiple times a day...
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Like in "Fawlty Towers"; "Have you hung the picture yet?"
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Could be worse. The number of times I have turned up the volume on my mobile (no headphone, using BT to car radio). Forgotten. Then plugged headphones in and nearly defeaned myself!
<TwistedLucidity> I wish Android had two volumes (headphones and none).
<zmoylan-pi> get headphones with their own volume and set it low?
<popey> I once had my volume turned up high on the train, couldn't hear it, turned out the headphones weren't plugged in. Everyone on the train was so polite!
<zmoylan-pi> i underwent an mri and the person prior to me was deaf, i couldn't hear for hours afterwards...
<TwistedLucidity> I brought ear plugs. Even so...eeeee...ka-thug...ka-thug...ka-thung...eeee...oooo....ka-thug....
<TwistedLucidity> Being able to see your insides is cool though
 * zmoylan-pi has pics of wonky hip pre op and terminator hip post op... :-)
<diddledan> ooh, share!
<TwistedLucidity> Because of the position I had to be in for my MRI, I needed help getting up afterwards. "We're done, you OK?" "Yeah, OK". "Err...we are done." "I know, but I can't move...."
<diddledan> I wanna terminator hip
<diddledan> to be fair, I want terminator anything
<TwistedLucidity> You probably don't. Which is why they delay such things for as long as poss.
<TwistedLucidity> In the future it will be nanotech delivery polymorhpic stem cells. <- I wish
<zmoylan-pi> i don't put those pics online for complicated reasons
<TwistedLucidity> The surgeon stitch "<name> woz 'ere" into your side?
<zmoylan-pi> they delay them also as you can only get 2 hips as the 2nd shortens the leg as the first artifical hip is removed and there's no room for a 3rd replacement
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, worried about letting the future skynet know that you're bionic?
<zmoylan-pi> nah, i can kill a terminator by hitting about the head with my nokia... :-)
<diddledan> what about the model-m keyboar?
<zmoylan-pi> the assault rifle of the developer corp... :-)
<foobarry> does anyone keep a key in a key safe outside their house?
<zmoylan-pi> i think the current best practice is to give a spare key to a neighbour or porn buddy
<foobarry> i prefer than idea (neighbour) but wifey is pushing for key safe
<foobarry> because we have young kids
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80985380/ porn buddies
<diddledan> foobarry, I really need one of those buddies :-p
<foobarry> and getting locked out is higher risk and more likelu
<diddledan> wait, ebaumsworld still exists?!
<diddledan> I remember watching videos on there back around the turn of the century
<zmoylan-pi> it always seems to be the only place i can find porn buddies when it comes up...
<foobarry> what are they?
<foobarry> not clicking :D
<zmoylan-pi> a porn buddy is someone who has your house key who will in event of accident remove the porn from your house before your next of kin find it
<diddledan> basically the person who's seen you at your worst who you don't mind discovering your kinks while they clean the evidence before your family get there :-p
<foobarry> ah ok. not applicable
<zmoylan-pi> but they have a key and will get it to you in case
<popey> my mum and wifes mum have keys to our place
<popey> no way I'd leave keys out
<foobarry> the issue is that the neighbour is probably out
<zmoylan-pi> the hidey places used for keys are probably well recognised by burgalars
<popey> and the kids are never in a position where they need to get into the house without one of us
<foobarry> although we have some elderly ones who are rarely out
<diddledan> my dad has my spare key
<foobarry> i do agree with you guys
<diddledan> popey, yet
<popey> for some years yet
<diddledan> popey, wait till they start going out on the binge :-p
<popey> they are 9 and 12
<popey> I will stay up :)
<popey> In fact I'll almost certainly have to go and get them
<diddledan> lol. that's proper parenting! :-)
<popey> DadCabs
<foobarry> kids get their own keys innit
<foobarry> from 14+ or whatever
<bigcalm> popey: 12?! Oh how time flies
<popey> yeah!
<diddledan> dad's taxi ftw
<popey> Her 12th last month.
<diddledan> I still use the parental minicab firm :-p
<popey> I'm trying to think under what circumstances Sophie would be coming home alone...
<popey> not often, but maybe in a few years
<popey> She goes to school where wifey works, so gets a lift in/out with her
<foobarry> nice
<foobarry> i went to school where my dad was teacher
<zmoylan-pi> i still have the house key i was given aged 6 for when i got home from school alone
<foobarry> is that allowed
<foobarry> home alone at 6?
<zmoylan-pi> in the 70s yeah
<foobarry> i thought in the 70s we didn't need keys because the doors were open anyway
<foobarry> but the gypsies might kidnap you
<davmor2> popey: you need to practice sharpening a knives in the doorway then she is getting to boyfriend age
<zmoylan-pi> not in my town, ferry port, lots of coming and going of stangers
<foobarry> boyfriend age is 30 right?
<popey> or indeed girlfriend
<popey> or whatevert
<foobarry> after 12 years of vetting
<popey> -t
<davmor2> foobarry: no when you are dead and buried and can't say no anymore
<popey> She's at an all girls school, so this is less likely :)
<davmor2> popey: they find a way trust me
<foobarry> popey has it all sorted
<popey> back in the dungeon, sophie!
<foobarry> although the girls school near me had most teeange preggers
<foobarry> but it was a convent school
<zmoylan-pi> catholic school girl uniform defeats intent of all girls school to keep girls out of trouble
<popey> not the intent
<popey> the intent (in ours) is for the girls not to get distracted by boys
<popey> which has worked
<zmoylan-pi> didn't work with my 3 sisters
<popey> but the school is going co-ed, which is convenient because sophie will be in the all-girls bit, and sam will get to be co-ed
<foobarry> handy
<popey> yeah, kinda stuck there now
<popey> hard to leave with wifey working there
<foobarry> maybe separated by a tall fence
<foobarry> or watchtowers
<popey> hah
<davmor2> foobarry: but what will jobo magazines do?
<popey> foobarry: you considering a key press thing with a code?
<foobarry> yes popey p
<popey> When we went on holiday to portugal the house had one of those
<foobarry> holiday homes seem to use them a lot
<popey> but the house also had an alarm, so standing there guessing the number would mean you could get in, but you wouldn't be able to do much till you disabled the alarm
<popey> I guess you could take the key away and make a copy then put it back
<popey> can the kids not just have their own key?
<foobarry> i was thinking of putting the standard key but not the chubb
<foobarry> this is because wifey getting locked out
<foobarry> forgetting to take keys on school run/walk
<foobarry> this would allow her to get back in
<foobarry> accidental lockout
<foobarry> but if we leave the house normally the chubb always gets locked
<foobarry> a burglar would need the chubb too
<foobarry> still i'm uncomfortable about it
<popey> as a kid I sometimes smashed all the crisps in a bag up before opening it
<popey> it was quite satisfying
<popey> but when you open the bag you realise what a small volume of crisps it contains
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> as a kid i got fed up of scroungers in teh playground so i  took a bag of "skips" to school that was actually identical looking polystyrene packaging in a skips packet
<popey> hah
<foobarry> usually i'd have a queue of kids asking for monster munch
<foobarry> let 5 kids have a chuink and there's only 2 for yourself
<Myrtti> as a Finn who ate the same, hot, free school lunch as everyone else in school, I can't help but to think that giving a kid crisps in the lunch box is wrong
<foobarry> i only got to eat 2 so its ok Myrtti
<Myrtti> albeit not quite as wrong as the kebab shop that used to sell a kiddy meal of chips and smiley faces and soda
<foobarry> and i'm still underweight after all these years
<Myrtti> foobarry: 2 a week, 2 a month?
<foobarry> 2 crisps a day after the scroungers had nabbed them
<foobarry> my son gets a hot meal this year and last year
<foobarry> but he's 6
<foobarry> it stops after that
<foobarry> i'd be tempted to pay though if the price is ok and he eats it all
<foobarry> just realised i have the same meal i had when i was 7 even now. sandwich, crisps, apple and a ribena
<m0nkey__> yerp.
<diddledan> derp
<zmoylan-pi> larp
<diddledan> parp?
<m0nkey__> diddledan: were you asking about the unifi stuff i have yesterday?
<diddledan> m0nkey_, I think it was ali who wanted to know?
<foobarry> coming soon, 4od on chromcast \o/
<bigcalm> Oo, that'll please my wife
<foobarry> except for the 10 mins of ads vs 20 mins of programme
<foobarry> makes me feel dirty
<bigcalm> TV isn't free
<jpds> foobarry: Too bad chromecast is so flaky
<SuperMatt> is it really?
<SuperMatt> I was thinking of getting one
<jpds> SuperMatt: Oh yes
<jpds> SuperMatt: It'll disappear from the phone midway through something
<jpds> SuperMatt: And you sometimes have to disconnect from wifi and reconnect to make it come back
<bigcalm> I have had no problems with my chromecast
<bigcalm> Just make sure both your chromecast and your phone have a good wifi signal
<SuperMatt> Ah, I was thinking of casting from my laptop to the screen
<jpds> bigcalm: I'm in the same room as the wifi ap
<bigcalm> I tend to use mine for youtube
<bigcalm> So the mobile is controlling rather than casting
<popey> yeah, not had any issues with chromecast here
<foobarry> i have problems casting from a device and the device goes to sleep and then i can't regain control
<foobarry> so then i can't pause any more
<foobarry> the other day i got a film on amazon prime, then realised they won't let me chrome it
<foobarry> kind of killed the mood to find a vga lead and speakers
<popey> most devices I have used have controls on the lock screen
<popey> so you dont need to unlock to pause
<popey> certainly does with youtube and netflix
<popey> amazon prime not working is intentional breakage from amazon, not chromecast or googles fault
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> but an oversight on my part, i just assumed without thinking
<davmor2> yeah they want you to use fire stick I guess
<Azelphur> Hmm, every time I unlock my computer I get "Authentication is required to change your own user data" o.O
<bigcalm> davmor2: they very much want you to use the firestick and prime. Amazon no longer sell the chromecast
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed, you'd think that the monopolies commission would have something to say about that though right
 * bigcalm shrugs
<foobarry> just like kindle i guess
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGbxmsDFVnE
<diddledan> OMGEE
 * popey watches for the 10th time
<tripleclones> I'm finding this one a bit too busy
<diddledan> it got me excited
<tripleclones> although have my tickets booked for a 00:01hrs viewing on 17th :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> nice
<tripleclones> I'm very excited about it
<diddledan> I'm wondering if I'll recognise greenham common when I watch it
<diddledan> (that's just round the corner from me)
<tripleclones> just to be lazy, when 15.10 released?
<diddledan> thursday
<tripleclones> cheers
<tripleclones> is greenham common where the x-wing was spotted by a pilot?
<diddledan> there was a minellium falcon there at one point, and several x-wings
<foobarry> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<foobarry> its my 10th anniversary next week
<zmoylan-pi> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<foobarry> so it must be also my 10th anniversary of using ubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> i found a dvd covercase from linux mag with ubuntu on it.  not sure i installed it though
<bashrc> I first started using ubuntu in 2006
<diddledan> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> hurry up :-o
<diddledan> teehee
 * diddledan smirks
<davmor2> man I had joined LP and reported bug longer than bashrc has been a user ;)
<foobarry> Member since:
<foobarry> 2006-05-20
<foobarry> hmm took me a while before getting LP
<zmoylan-pi> http://istodaythedaymartymcflyarriveswhenhetravelstothefuture.com/
<foobarry> my 2yr old just outed my missis
<foobarry> "watched star wars on mummy phone at lunch daddy"
<Myrtti> I hate hate haaaaatttteee hate that my laptop's wifi doesn't survive suspend anymore, I have to re-enable wifi from network manager almost every time I return from suspend
<daftykins> how wude
<daftykins> what change prompted that, wily upgrade or new kernel...?
<Myrtti> upgrade, tried an older one and I think it still had the same problem, and now the newer kernels have it still
<Myrtti> I'm at the short end of the stick now
<daftykins> 15.04?
<Myrtti> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> my latest 15.04 install on a lenovo doesn't do wifi or bt.  and i cann't be buggered to fix it tbh :-)
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> sounds like one of the usual Lenovo quirks
<daftykins> wind direction must be south-east during installation for wifi to work
<daftykins> or actually TJ told me about the whole ACPI OSI thing a bit ago, that's always worth a go :D
<zmoylan-pi> it'll either start working when i upgrade or it won't. i see it as a reminder not to buy lenovo next time...
<zmoylan-pi> it's kinda what i do when i have a hard drive fail.  i avoid that companies hardware for a few generations...
<daftykins> you'd be out of companies the way HDDs work nowadays :>
<daftykins> or don't work, as the case seems to be
<daftykins> thankfully we'll all be on pure SSD soon enough :D
<zmoylan-pi> unless the hard drive failed due to bouncing off the floor in a freak yachting accident
<zmoylan-pi> there's always another brand to go to when you drop 1-2 brands
<zmoylan-pi> and i'll stick with hdd as i don't trust ssd yet
<daftykins> 'tis a bit early, but i'm confident with 3D NAND
<zmoylan-pi> it's good for some, for those that want raw performance, solid state no moving parts, but not a priority for me
<daftykins> you can't go back once you try it :D
<zmoylan-pi> for the first few years of ssd's it didn't take much to find horror stories of a badly configured distro wearing out the ssd, now it's just a capacity/price thing
<zmoylan-pi> i'd risk a chromebook, if it was a) right spec 4gb ram, >=64gb ssd, b) had page up/down keys c) could install linux
<daftykins> mmm, i think things should be bought that work rather than require modding :>
<zmoylan-pi> in that case i'd buy nothing :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i have zero interest/trust in chromeos.
<zmoylan-pi> but it's closest thing to a netbook been sold these days
<zmoylan-pi> the new ms surface book looks nice but has same problem as ms tablets in 90s.  just too expensive
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: get an xps 13
<daftykins> the 9350 looks so nice :)
<zmoylan-pi> my experience of dells is quite warped, i've only ever seen them after every other tech support person has given up on them... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: pfff
<Azelphur> Is there any way to tell APT to stop being stupid and install the package, when the package depends on libx264-142 but the package has been renamed to libx264-146
<daftykins> o0 got a pastebin of the situation?
<foobarry> looking at some old open bugs
<foobarry> gwibber lol
<foobarry> the gwibber dev went over to apple. just checked his witter and he spendshis time bitching about them now
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> oh, who?
<directhex> Azelphur: it's not being stupid, the lib package's contents have been changed as they are no longer compatible
<Azelphur> directhex: oh, so it can't use 142?
<directhex> Azelphur: it's a soname bump - libx264.so.142 is not in libx264-146
<directhex> and the app is linked against libx264.so.142 not libx264.so.146
<directhex> the good news is the packages are parallel-installable, you can just grab a .deb from an older release
<foobarry> rplptl~.
<foobarry> Myrtti: https://twitter.com/segphault
<foobarry> i tihnk he wrote for ars technica back in the day
<Azelphur> directhex: fun, guess I could do that
<directhex> you bump SONAME when you break backward compatibility in a lib
<directhex> multimedia libs are the worst for it
<foobarry> has anyone made the metal earth star wars kits?
<foobarry> e,g, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metal-Earth-Millennium-Falcon-Model/dp/B00GY8S8MO/ref=pd_sim_21_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0FEKXZKFBR9TG679MC6S&dpID=51B34bciNSL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_
<foobarry> ugh
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metal-Earth-Millennium-Falcon-Model/dp/B00GY8S8MO
<Myrtti> foobarry: I didn't think he went for Apple, xamarin I knew about
<foobarry> i meant he switched his OS of choice :)
<daftykins> once they go OS X there's no help ;)
 * diddledan pokes it
<diddledan> I'm thinking I might upgrade to 15.10 before d-day
<Myrtti> oh, that
<daftykins> diddledan: you devil!
<diddledan> daftykins, at least my drives are all working. don't you dare touch them!
<daftykins> hey er, why don't you run a little smartctl for me...
<diddledan> never!
<diddledan> out of sight, out of mind!
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> if I can't see it, then it didn't happen
<diddledan> like the bugblatter beast of traal
<diddledan> speaking of which, how did douglas adams invent so many obvious things that nobody ever thought of before?!
<diddledan> I swear he was a savant
<daftykins> genius level
<diddledan> achievement unlocked: 42
<foobarry> because he invented a genre pretty much
<foobarry> i re-read all his books recently
<foobarry> they go downhill a lot quite quickly
<diddledan> what? the clocks change this week?!
<diddledan> omg, the end of days!
<foobarry> and really tedious and difficult sections to follow
<daftykins> best part is the US doesn't change for another few days, so the Atlantic will shrink by an hour
<diddledan> yey for relativity
<diddledan> (that does mean that britain is going to be moving faster than the americas, right?)
<diddledan> I can science, me!
<diddledan> look at me sciencing!
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah, mac users are now been called about problems with their mac \o/ :-) http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/10/support-scams-that-plagued-windows-users-for-years-now-target-mac-customers/
<daftykins> 8D
<zmoylan-pi> next up... linux.... :-D
<diddledan> weel aah reckon y'all up thar in loonicks land ain't never fallen foul a any scams
<diddledan> (that's what the tech support people sound like, right?)
<zmoylan-pi> and a seperate item says 15 people got their ubuntu phone infected with malware...
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> this may truly be the year of household linux!
<diddledan> you know you've arrived when you get virused
<diddledan> (cue innapropriate reference to STIs)
<zmoylan-pi> a pox on all their oses :-P
<daftykins> well if it was just that bad app, all it did was change a boot screen
<daftykins> so just the usual media clickbait and scaremongering
<diddledan> at least those with dumbphones don't have to worry about the zombie apocalypse
<diddledan> daftykins, omg, an image?
<daftykins> ikr!
<diddledan> dastardly shenanigans!
<zmoylan-pi> dumbphones ftw \o/
 * zmoylan-pi bangs 2 nokias together to make fire after the apocolypse
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, when you disappear folk with a rug and a river, do you weigh the body down with nokias?
<zmoylan-pi> and waste a nokia?!
<diddledan> point.
 * diddledan misses his 7110
<zmoylan-pi> plenty of freebie winphones out there for that...
<diddledan> I think I still remember the number of my 7110's contract
<diddledan> 07799660097
<diddledan> I do!
<diddledan> wow
<zmoylan-pi> you can pick up ancient nokias for <â¬50
<diddledan> that was an awesome number
<diddledan> it was on one2one (remember those guys?!)
<Myrtti> I just remember my ICQ number
<diddledan> I think I still know my ICQ, too, Myrtti
<daftykins> diddledan: let's call it!
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I wonder if it's still in use
<daftykins> i got really confused a bit ago when an ex turned up on whatsapp, but it turned out it was just her prior temporary UK number which someone came up as when they took over the same #
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> hah, this page lists it as at one time belonging to someone: http://ukphonebook.mobi/57/90/luke-mitchel.php
<daftykins> aww just had someone check their disk and it's fine ;)
<diddledan> namely one "Barker Thaddeus" of St. Julians , Newport
<daftykins> i think you should call yourself that
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> aww yeah old RAID is 98% rebuilt
<daftykins> i'm amazed the disks haven't conked out yet
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> i got bored enough to plug them in
<daftykins> 6 x 1TB doing nothing
<diddledan> I think raid arrays should have moar blinken flashen
<daftykins> oh you can totally trick out a true hardware RAID card ;)
<daftykins> it's got headers for LEDs!
<diddledan> I used to love pulling out a hotswap disk kfrom an active raid and then putting it back to watch the lightshow
<daftykins> that stress is pretty bad :(
<diddledan> "the cloud" is ruining systems administration
<popey> 38
<zmoylan-pi> 42
<diddledan> 56 - I win!
<zmoylan-pi> no no i had the ultimate answer to life the universe and everything...
<daftykins> but what's the question?
<zmoylan-pi> the earth is still working on that, but how far it gets with a bunch of phone sanitisers is anyones guess...
<popey> Azelphur: when you have 5 mins. my brother needs a new phone, 100 quid or so, camera and ease of getting music on it are important (no subscription service).
<popey> Azelphur: he found a motorola razr (intel 1GB ram) and I said "NO!"
<Azelphur> popey: is that literally all that is important? really any phone can do that
<popey> He's not a nerd
<popey> I want to find the 'best' phone he can get which will last
<Azelphur> new or used?
<popey> pay as you go
<popey> well, that's a good question
<popey> be nice if it had more than 1GB RAM
<Azelphur> well, you can get a Nexus 5 for Â£100 ballpark, It should in theory fit "will last" since it has 2GB RAM and it's supported by Google for a while longer
<Azelphur> and then you could put whatever musicy software on it you want
<daftykins> unlike my 4 ;_;
<popey> yeah, good call
<popey> reckon you can get an n5 for 100 quid!?
<popey> ooh, ebay 115 quid for 16GB Nexus 5!
<zmoylan-pi> 16gb is a little lite for holding music, no?
<daftykins> for a phone with no card slot, yep
<popey> true
<Azelphur> popey: indeed, there are lots on eBay, used for <=100, new from 115ish and up
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-21
<mapps> hi
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Back To The Future Day! ð The future is now!
<davmor2> JamesTait: I had this ready just incase https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XwNibBpDYU
<JamesTait> davmor2++
<bashrc> http://liliputing.com/2015/10/ubuntu-celebrates-11th-birthday-looks-ahead-to-smartphonedesktop-convergence.html
<zmoylan-pi> i've wanted convergence since someone mentioned a docking station for the psion 5 to add full keyboard and screen
<bashrc> I think it will happen. Only question is when
<zmoylan-pi> i've been waiting 15+ years now...
<zmoylan-pi> and mobile tech has yet to get back to the high water mark of the psion pdas
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: MS has done it. Or so their PR department claims... Apple will invent it in the next year or so.
 * zmoylan-pi fondly remembers the stowaway keyboard for palm devices... full sized keyboard the size of a palm device...
 * brobostigon picks up his old palm pilot and wave sit around proudly, still lieing on his desk.
<zmoylan-pi> i still have a palm here but it's battry no longer charges... :-(
<zmoylan-pi> i miss sim city, reptoids and irogue...
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, you do realise that you have to plug the charger into a wall socket, I suppose?  ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, i was wiring it up to lightning conductor and waiting for strikes.....
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... that might work.  Guess there's just not enough lightning yet ;-)
<foobarry> anyone with nvidia card occasionally get full screen flicker
<foobarry> one flicker that flashes the whole screen for a split second
<popey> so steamlink is an android device... https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/3p2zv8/steam_link_teardown_mainboard/ ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Afternoon
 * popey is off to see Tim Vine tonight
<foobarry> off to the car garage :(
<foobarry> MOT +service+ lots of Â£Â£Â£
<bigcalm> popey: nice
<brobostigon> when you try and install golang mobile with, "go get golang.org/x/mobile/cmd/gomobile" is there meant to be any output from it?
<davmor2> popey: I hope you are having a shave then :P
<popey> pffft
 * popey adds more work for davmor2 
<davmor2> popey: pfff not possible
<popey> :)
<Ridgewing> isitoutyet?
<Ridgewing> Is wily out today or to tomorrow ?
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<bigcalm> Tomorrow
<Ridgewing> Oh yeah ..   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<Ridgewing> that's good.
<Ridgewing> When do you think the X-name question shall apear on reddit ?
<Ridgewing> **appear
<davmor2> popey: do you think we should push for Zeebedee for the Z release?  We could change the login drums to boing boing :D
<popey> hah
<popey> you think we'll still be around for z? :)
<popey> I thought we were switching to rolling, so X will be the last one
<davmor2> popey: well first we need to move the phone to snappy and then follow that with the desktop though right then everything is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYnFIRc0k6E
<Ridgewing> I like the 'backup, backup' bit.
<bigcalm> popey: you don't expect to have a job by 16.10?
<popey> hah
<popey> who knows what the future holds
<bigcalm> That's how I read your line "you think we'll still be around for z? :)"
<bigcalm> Or are you expecting the human race to be wiped out by then
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Might happen
<davmor2> The Lunch of Champions original curry pot noodle hmmmm
<popey> You never know!
<diplo> Pot noodles are god awful, don't know how people have them :/
<bigcalm> They can be bad if incorrectly prepared
<bigcalm> They can be lush (as far as a quick slack can be) if done correctly
<popey> i like home made not poodles
<davmor2> diplo: next you'll be saying you like Marmite
<diplo> When I see it in the bin yes
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> 1. Leave to sit longer than the total 4 mins. 2. Add other sauces besides the included packet. I add Tabasco, soy and Worcestershire sauces
<popey> I love marmite
<davmor2> popey: yes but you are clinically insane ;)
<bigcalm> Leaving a pot noodle for longer means that more water is absorbed and the sauce gets thicker
<bigcalm> davmor2: pot calling the kettle black
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do you think I know he is we got the certificates at the same time :P
<davmor2> diplo: Pot noodles are like tea, leave it to stew the right length of time and it is perfection :)
<diplo> I guess that's where we differ :D
<bigcalm> diplo: you don't like tea either?
<diplo> Nah like tea, just don't leave it to stew
<diplo> Water on tea bag, swirl around, squeeze and done
<davmor2> diplo: get out now ;)
<davmor2> diplo: that's called Water :D
<bigcalm> That's about as strong as I have
<bigcalm> it
<davmor2> to be fair though it depends on tea
<bigcalm> Won't be making tea for davmor2 any time soon
<davmor2> bigcalm: I tend to drink coffee, but I make tea for the workmen and all of them have it the same, if the spoon doesn't stand up on it's own it's not strong enough
<davmor2> bigcalm, diplo: My wife has green tea with lemon, you have to stew that for a good 30 seconds for the lemon to infuse otherwise it tastes awful, fresh tea is always stewed to and normally in a teapot too ;)
<diplo> davmor2: Guy I work with leaves the bag in his for herbal/green teas
<diplo> Looks stronger than the squash I make my kids
<bigcalm> Tea tea when stewed I find undrinkable
<bigcalm> Infusion teas I tend to leave the bag in the mug the entire time I'm drinking it
<diplo> popey: Do you still use your Revo for Kodi/XBMC ?
<popey> I haven't used my revo for a long time
<popey> It's attached to the back of the display I'm using but isn't powered on
<popey> I don't even know what's on it.
<davmor2> popey: dust?
<popey> yeah
<diplo> :D
<diplo> OK, just was debating updating mine - wondering what others were using now
<Seeker`> I used to have pot noodle sandwiches :P
<diplo> Oh dear....!
<diplo> :D
<bigcalm> My parents still use the Revo I sold them. It's their house file & backup server
<Seeker`> diplo: or supernoodle sandwiches. That was during the first year of uni
<bigcalm> Running 14.04.3 LTS
<popey> My mum still uses a revo running ubuntu as her pc
<popey> she's had it for over 3 years
<diplo> Yeah I use mine for Kodi still, it's running an old ubuntu that is no longer supported and 12.0 xbmc
<diplo> Was going to reinstall, may try the new kodibuntu
<m0nkey__> yerp.
<diddledan> morning, m0nkey_
<diddledan> those revos were good when they came out
<diddledan> there was a big push for nettops
<diddledan> the key thing about them was they had an nvidia chip
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/802007522/up-intel-x5-z8300-board-in-a-raspberry-pi2-form-fa
<popey> intel chip board sized of a pi
<popey> 50K seems low
<diddledan> it's interesting that they feel the need to be exactly the same form-factor as the pi right down to the gpio pin layout
<diddledan> smacks of microsoft's embrace extend extinguish philosophy from the late 90s only from a startup company instead
<diplo> I read that they wanted to make the GPIO's the same for all the current modders out there, maybe form factor for the same reason, people have enclosures that may fit them
<diplo> Or that it has sold so well in that form factor
<diddledan> can anyone help a user on the hantslug mailing list with this query: http://www.hants.lug.org.uk/lurker/thread/20151021.144602.ae9d6e11.en.html?
<diddledan> I failed netiquette in my reply - top-posted AND failed to trim!!!
<diplo> We use people like Sagepay diddledan, just provide them with the 'Secret key' and the transaction takes place on there, I suppose I could read more into it but not sure I could help anyway :)
<diddledan> they appear to be using a third-party, too
<diplo> Yeah as per your response, I don't quite get what they're doing
<m0nkey__> DPAPI is a Microsoft mechanismn to process transactions securely?
<m0nkey__> Like CC numbers?
<diddledan> m0nkey__, no, it's an in-memory encrypted storage as far as I can tell
<diddledan> like the keychain in os x and linuxy systems
<m0nkey__> GnuPG perhaps?
<m0nkey__> Or EncFS?
<diddledan> that's just it, it's unclear what the third-party wants the guy to use DPAPI for
<Seeker`> diddledan: at least you didn't PM someone without asking them
 * diddledan pms Seeker`
<Seeker`> someone got upset at me for doing that the other day
<diddledan> oops :-p
<m0nkey__> Well, the 3rd party needs to provide some kind of information about it. APIs, etc. wtf are they trying to do? More context is needed.
<Seeker`> nonono, wait diddledan, I need time to prepare for the arrival of a PM!
<diddledan> sometimes bad netiquette is more a lapse in concentration
<diddledan> I think it's nice to be a good citizen but being a good citizen also involves allowing others to make mistakes :-)
<diddledan> if the various national governments are to be held as an example we should have a citizenship test before we allow people onto the internet (that would be terrible!)
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, you're wrong... Everything is "your" fault [e.g today's lousy weather is also *your* fault] ;-)
<diddledan> "are you britishy enough to be allowed into britain?"
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan makes moar bad weather!
<bashrc> I blame Windows
<SuperEngineer> yikes!
<PeteOtaqui> "are you britishy enough to be allowed into britain old bean, what what?"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> of course it's crazy having a britishness test when britain is supposed to be multicultural
<diddledan> like "we value all cultures, but you must change yours to be the same as ours"
<bashrc> the vikings would fail
<diddledan> doctor who on saturday had vikings!
<diddledan> I'm curious to see where they go with the lass that he saved
<PeteOtaqui> diddledan just passed the britishness test
<diddledan> lol
<bashrc> A britishness test would be something like: "how much tea do you drink?"
<bashrc> "do you complain about the weather often?"
<diddledan> yes to both
<PeteOtaqui> "do you apologise when someone else bumps into you"
<diddledan> I do!
<SuperEngineer> If only we Brits realised how multi-cultural the blood flowing us is...
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, exactly - what have the romans ever done for us
<diddledan> and the vikings
<SuperEngineer> ALERT - ALERT -Monty P. referencer
<diddledan> and every one else who's invaded
<bashrc> the Romans would have failed the britishness test
<diddledan> the normals, and the angles and the curves and the saxons etc.
<SuperEngineer> you forgot the Saxon people
<PeteOtaqui> Stewart Lee does a great bit about that ... "Before Romanians, it was the Poles ... coming over here, fixing all the stuff we broke"
<bashrc> all fails
<PeteOtaqui> "... and before that, it was the Indians ... coming over here, inventing us a cuisine ..."
<diddledan> we'd have terrible food if we didn't have curry
<diddledan> "curry, the epitome of british cuisine. not british."
<Gary> Afternoon folks
<diddledan> after noodles!
<bashrc> pizza? FAIL
<SuperEngineer> Best of British.. if you tasted my cooking you wouldn't care which country your food culture originated from!
<diddledan> hehe
<SuperEngineer> That's a point... Pot Noodles!
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> nectar of heaven, those
 * PeteOtaqui leaves in disgust
<bashrc> pheasants? FAIL Christmas trees? FAIL
<SuperEngineer> As this is #ubuntu-uk... why not get together and demand #ubuntu-uk pot noodles
<SuperEngineer> "PeteOtaqui leaves in disgust"... just working out how many nationalities involved in that name....
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<PeteOtaqui> Several
<SuperEngineer> 4?
<PeteOtaqui> 3
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... close enough
<PeteOtaqui> English then Arabic with a French spelling
<SuperEngineer> wew!
<PeteOtaqui> Although I guess you could say 4, because surnames were introduced to much of the Arab world by the Turks in the 1800s (to collect taxes)
<SuperEngineer> you should be proud of that name - it helped collect money!  ;-)
<PeteOtaqui> What did the Ottomans ever do for us?
<SuperEngineer> ...or the turks
<zmoylan-pi> gave us somewhere to rest our feet...? :-P
<davmor2> PeteOtaqui: nice boxes at the bottom of the bed to keep your bedding in?
<PeteOtaqui> rest our feet, while usefully storing stuff?
<PeteOtaqui> ok, ok, aside from interesting and functional boudoir furniture ... ;)
<zmoylan-pi> so bloody annoying we went of and found other ways to get to asia discovering america in the process?
<PeteOtaqui> hah
<PeteOtaqui> catch you later
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<Gary> Can't believe I've been registered on Freenode for almost ten years
<SuperEngineer> really? I thought penguins discovered America!
<popey> \o/ (11y 28w 1d ago) here
<zmoylan-pi> nah, that was just penguins trying to avoid polar bears who got lost
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<Gary> Alan!!!
<Gary> Hey popey xXx
<zmoylan-pi> world running out of lego... panic!! \o/
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - it appears popey has invented a new time period... A "Go"
 * popey tickles Gary 
<popey> long time no see
<Gary> Just a while eh
<diddledan> looks like I "Registered : Feb 09 17:16:33 2007 (8y 36w 3d ago)"
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, what is this time period "go" [& why doesn't anybody put a space between "a" & "go"
<MartijnV1S> counting in hex again, SuperEngineer? :P
<SuperEngineer> got it
<diddledan> lol: http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/going-to-westfield-with-the-archbishop-of-banterbury
<Seeker`> :O its a Gary
<Seeker`> and 8y 48w here
<diddledan> Seeker`, damn it you sunk my battleship
<Seeker`> pfft, you're such a noob diddledan :P
<diddledan> I think you'll find you spelt that wrong, I'm actually a right ol' knob.. :-p
<Seeker`> well, that too :P
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, just seen your reply re spelling [been on phone]... love it!
<Azelphur> https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations/comments/3pnlzu/my_battlestation_with_a_viewv2/ finally done with the new desk setup \o/
<zmoylan-pi> over compensating much? :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I thought he was just blocking out the view
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: ;)
<zmoylan-pi> that reality is just so hard to deal with...
<Azelphur> exactly, I reject your reality and substitute it with my own :P
 * zmoylan-pi suspects Azelphur's reality has a lot of rainbows, unicorns and kittens... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: and that's on monitor 1, on 2 he has dancing leprechauns, 3 nyancat and 4 is fairies and gandalf
<daftykins> one client seems to have no end of trouble with their sky boxes naffing up
<zmoylan-pi> some other problem at their location causing it?  wonky power? giant doomsday device plugged in next to it etc. ? :-)
<daftykins> ah but the doomsday device has really nice lights...
<daftykins> i could just pass it onto the TV guy :D
<zmoylan-pi> gotta have blinky lights on doomsday devices, it's in the regs... oh and a red led countdown...
<daftykins> and have it signed off by a school teacher - oh no wait not that last bit
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno, some of my teachers were evil geniuses
 * davmor2 hands zmoylan-pi telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
<daftykins> hmm playstation 4s have meant to have dropped by Â£50 in the UK o0
<zmoylan-pi> crimbo coming up so wanting to capture a few more sales...
<daftykins> indeedy, funny when you look back and see when they were Â£600
<davmor2> daftykins: all of them are stupid money to start with and steadily come down
<zmoylan-pi> initally they sell them at a loss and make their money on games, probably making a profit on each unit now and passing some of that on
<daftykins> davmor2: yeah it just put it into context for me looking at the amazon price history today :D
<daftykins> never seen it be so clear before
<daftykins> http://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Sony-PlayStation-4-Console-Black/product/B00BE4HOIM
<davmor2> daftykins: it was the same for 360/ps3/xbox/ps2/ps1
<daftykins> heh, i know - i wasn't born yesterday
 * davmor2 checks daftykins birth certificate, no apparently you weren't well done on knowing that :P
<daftykins> \o/
<m0nkey_> Even our government is getting in on the fun: http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/tc/2015/55494r-eng.php
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> the X name has been announced btw
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> it looks like a squirrel
<m0nkey_> Motorola wont replace my Moto360 here in Canada, because I purchased it in the US.
<daftykins> =/
<daftykins> can't post it down?
<m0nkey_> i'm starting to make a stink on social media
<diddledan> I'm not saying a single word about you stinking
<m0nkey_> I'm going to file a formal complaint
<m0nkey_> They wont replace my watch, since it was purchased in the US.
<m0nkey_> The border is only 30 mins away
<diddledan> oh I thought you mean filing a formal complaint about my comment :-p
<diddledan> meant*
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> "that too"
<diddledan> hmm, nagios just freaked-out
<m0nkey_> Also posting on their facebook
<m0nkey_> "Helllo Motorolaâ, your customer service department has failed to provide me with a warranty replacement for a device purchased in the US, since I live in Canada and unable to provide a US address. My Moto360 has developed a crack on the back, which is a known manufacturing defect. I spent an hour on the phone with your customer service department (A 3rd party in El Salvador) who said they cannot do anything to help me. All I want i
<m0nkey_> s for my watch to be fixed or replaced. I can only assume that the parts used to repair are the same in the US and Canada."
<daftykins> seems fair
<m0nkey_> I started laughing when I got them to admit to being a 3rd party in El Salvador
<daftykins> how come o0
<m0nkey_> They told me to contact the US support, but they are going to say exactly the same thing.
<daftykins> what's stopping you posting down to the US though?
<m0nkey_> Don't you find it a little ironic, a device purchased in the US, being used in Canada is supported by a company in El Salvador?
<m0nkey_> daftykins, because I don't have a US postal address, they supposedly can't help me.
<diddledan> el salvador as in mexico?
<m0nkey_> lol, don't tell any El Salvadorians that.
<m0nkey_> They hate being called Mexican.
<diddledan> I don't know what or where it is - is it a country or a city?
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> Fly to El Salvador, I don't know why - and I don't know what for ~
<m0nkey_> It's much further south than Mexico
<daftykins> i haven't listened to that band for a while
<diddledan> I just tried apt instead of apt-get finally. nice progress bars ftw!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ikr
<daftykins> weirdly though i wonder if it fails to tie in to whatever updates the MOTD on SSH login, 'cause the package count doesn't seem to update
<m0nkey_> Well, Motorola has lost my custom. Basically, I'm screwed.
<diddledan> wtf!
<daftykins> :/
<m0nkey_> I called the US support dept, they had a bit more sympathy and actually tried to help.
<diddledan> the us guys probably get it a lot
<m0nkey_> So, anyone want to buy a Moto360 with a slightly cracked back? lol
<daftykins> don't know anyone across the border you can have be a proxy o0
<m0nkey_> Nope
<diddledan> wow, apple have just send a slew of vuln aanouncements to the full-disclosure list
<daftykins> huge updates from them today
<diddledan> (or rather patches announcements)
<daftykins> El Cap finally got 10.11.1 so that should fix Office 2016 ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-22
<m0nkey_> diddledan, writing said letter to Moto.. http://pastebin.com/Sz8kSy02
<daftykins> the text should be red, when you send it in
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> I've changed a few things
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnV1S> \o
 * zmoylan-pi casts bleary eye at morning...
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning :)
<xplora1a> Morning...
<czajkowski> Aloha
<davmor2> czajkowski: long time no insults, how are you?
<czajkowski> davmor2: fandiddlytastic
<czajkowski> little bit busy which is all good :)
<czajkowski> and your good self davmor2 ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: a little busy.....pfffff I wish I was only a little busy ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Wily Werewolf welease day! ð
<czajkowski> davmor2: well in my case a litle is others a lot, I'
<czajkowski> ve 4 conferences next week that we're taking part in, writing a talk for next month in ireland, and running a new program for community contributors to get involved in couchbase. Producing a newsletter and general work :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: this seems apt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGMsAYgoL3Y  along with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6poz7dbmhE&list=PLcP6rKpF5qeST7LmR0v9ZYN95HhsK8WL1
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: Is it no "Where the **** is my hoverboard?" day?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: that was yesterday
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I was allowing 24hrs for delivery
<JamesTait> Hahah!
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you didn't order from argos to get it on the same day?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: time waster
<TwistedLucidity> You know what comes after "Yay! Hoverboard!" day?  "Why didn't I buy a full-face helmet and now need an emergency dentist appointment" day
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: well apparently you fall in water which will likely give you a cold so chemist run for cold remedies day
<JamesTait> Here's your hoverboard: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/hoverboard-duru-1.3270569?utm_content=bufferada04&ut
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> got software raid on my i7 box for my /home but i get laggy terminal sessions etc. i think its a bit slow
<foobarry> raid1
<foobarry> is that normal
<popey> what type of software raid?
<davmor2> JamesTait: that's more a large drone with a man standing on it to be honest ;)
<foobarry> mdadm, raid1, 2x1TB sata drives
<popey> what kernel version?
<foobarry>  3.19.0-31-generic #36~14.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 8 10:21:08 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<popey> what else is it doing at the time? it's not rebuilding?
<popey> I'd be doing the usual top / iotop / nethogs etc
<foobarry> its not really provable, just a perception
<popey> look at /proc/mdstat
<foobarry> opening a browser is slow
<foobarry> md0 : active raid1 sdb2[1] sda2[0] 874229568 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude
<bigcalm> Hiya
<davmor2> why is chemical brothers song called hey boy hey girl when the lyrics are the other way round
<directhex> marketing!
<davmor2> directhex: if that was the case they would just call it hey girl and have some half naked women on the cover in an ibiza esque stylee
<directhex> as opposed to https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/HeyBoyHeyGirl.jpg ?
<davmor2> directhex: so not marketing
<Laney> write to your MP asking for an urgent question to be tabled in the house
<popey> :)
<davmor2> Laney: good plan might stop them screwing up the country
<directhex> can someone give me a convincing answer to "why are there tractors in Pixar's Cars"?
<popey> what else would the farmer have?
<Laney> they could make songs with misleading or incorrect titles illegal
<popey> The farmer being the combine I guess.
<directhex> popey: no, see, there are cows in real life because meat and milk. cars replaces cows with tractors. so why are there tractors?
<davmor2> directhex: because tractors rock and don't you forget it, there are also lorries, planes and helicopters, pickup trucks etc
<popey> tractors pull farm machinery
<directhex> not in Cars!
<popey> they dont get seen doing that
<popey> but that doesn't mean they don't
<directhex> why is there even a farm?
<popey> they plow
<popey> or plough
<popey> http://pixar.wikia.com/wiki/Tractors
<popey> that quotes the blueray disney disc where they say that
<popey> "They enjoy what they do, plowing through the fields on a nice warm day, and then falling asleep under the moonlight"
<directhex> why do they plough?!
<popey> Who else would plough?
<directhex> it's clearly hay they're growing on that farm. why do they have hay?
<popey> No other vehicle is built for it, Tractors are
<davmor2> directhex: that can be the next question for the mps to debate over send it in ;)
<awilkins> In "Planes" the Indian machine society venerates tractors like Indian Hindu's  venerate cows
<awilkins> At the beginning I went "WTF, the hero is a crop-duster, why do machines grow crops?"
<awilkins> But they correctly went with the "vegetable sources of fuel" argument on that one
<popey> directhex: they need the hay for this guys hat http://imgur.com/o5yzNDY
<directhex> that's straw not hay!
<popey> pffft
<popey> potato / potato
<davmor2> man you guys really need to get a life :D
<directhex> but is it a normal life, or an inexplicably car-based life?
<awilkins> Why do the vehicles fall in love??!?
<awilkins> I mean, you don't see any baby buggies or whatever driving around
<davmor2> awilkins: they have for ever look at herbie
<awilkins> I suppose in Cars 1 Mc Queen has some japanese schoolgirl type car groupies
<directhex> how does a car "grow up" anyway? i mean, why would you build a racecar like mcqueen and he not immediately race?
<awilkins> But they could just be adult cars being kawaii
<directhex> we know they have parents, you see lots of parents in cars 2 in italy
<directhex> but *how* are they related?
<awilkins> They go down the car factory and pick chassis and trim together?
<awilkins> (if it's a VW camper van, do they make sure the carpet matches the drapes?   *ducks*)
<diplo> Or you could just enjoy it for the kids film it is, not educational ? :D
<popey> shush diplo :)
<diplo> Don't think my kids have ever asked any of those questions
<diplo> hahahah
<davmor2> directhex: Well this is a topic that should of been brought up at school, but basically, a mommy and daddy get together and mommy becomes pregnant........
<directhex> also the cars in cars die of old age? yet apparently the parts can all get replaced?
<directhex> like... doc hudson is dead in cars 2, and radiator springs' founder is dead in cars 1. yet in cars 2, apparently replacing an engine is nbd, so i dunno?
<davmor2> directhex: but it was the doc that replaced the engine he couldn't do that on himself durrr :D
<davmor2> so popey Tim Vine, hilarious as ever I hope?
<popey> very
<popey> It was proper laugh a minute
<davmor2> popey: yeah him and milton jones the masters of the one liners, beautifully timed and very clever
<popey> yeaha
<davmor2> I still think bill bailey is my favourite though
<directhex> he's fun live
<MooDoo> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<MooDoo> :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're slacking
<davmor2> bigcalm: done my bit I found all the bugs :P
<bigcalm> All of them?
<bigcalm> No package updates after this release!
<davmor2> bigcalm: all the ones I care about
<davmor2> bigcalm: no lots to fix the issues I found :)
<bigcalm> I'm sure it'll be a good release
<MooDoo> I thought it was interesting marks announcement about x, don't think he really mentioned desktop, there is going to be one isn't there ? :)
<popey> Of course :)
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet!
<bigcalm> Aww
 * bigcalm lurks
<bigcalm> !isubuntumate15.10outyet
<lubotu3> bigcalm: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bigcalm> That's true
<sebsebseb> hi
<MooDoo> hello
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm so gonna slap you
<MooDoo> davmor2: do it do it :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: your next on the list :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah yeah yeah
<davmor2> MooDoo, bigcalm: you'll be glad to know it's out now
<bigcalm> Lovely
<MooDoo> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> It's out! Party in #ubuntu-release-party - download at http://ubuntu.com/download/
<MooDoo> lol
<bashrc> \o/
<MooDoo> guess i'll dist upgrade later to see what I was missing lol
<daftykins> a chap over in -discuss was telling me of a showstopper upgrade bug that was pretty nasty sounding, late last night
<daftykins> proper 11th hour fix
<davmor2> daftykins: if you only knew
<daftykins> ?
<davmor2> daftykins: there were 17 issues with upgrades and those are just the ones we knew about with a default set of apps
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> so what's the deal, do folk on a 15.04 install have to be fully up to date before they move?
<davmor2> daftykins: the upgrade tool will only allow you to update the current system if it is out of date once it is up to date and you reboot if needed it will then dist-upgrade
<davmor2> daftykins: been like that for a while
<daftykins> ah ok, i'm only curious for folk coming into #ubuntu - i don't believe in upgrades personally
<zmoylan-pi> dos 2.0 is good enough for everyone :-)
<SuperEngineer> Anyone investigated the price of a 15.10 t-shirt via the omgubuntu link on twitter... thought I'd order one [nice design etc.] total billing cost in UK=Â£17.70 hurumph!
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: yeah the p&p is a wonder from them
<zmoylan-pi> for that price it would have to include popey sweat... :-)
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, are you trying to tell me that it doesn't? I assumed it did!
 * SuperEngineer cancels order... reason: no popey sweat ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...& declares Linux Outlast status!
<SuperEngineer> *Outlaw even ;-)
<SuperEngineer> Dear OMG Ubuntu shop ... annoy again & I will send the boys round
<zmoylan-pi> disguised as penguins... they'll just think it's a delivery gone rogue...
<SuperEngineer> [sorry, sexist threat there... I will send gender determinate & indeterminate in one big giggling assault[
<SuperEngineer> And if that fails I will send the Chinese leader [he's finished with UK Queen & now free to visit you in orfder to bamboozle you into saying yes to any jike he wants you to believe[
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist for polital comment
<SuperEngineer> *polical
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<SuperEngineer> A baby born three months early was kept warm by doctors with the help of a supermarket sandwich bag, her mother reveals - What did she reveal?!
<SuperEngineer> ...bet it wasn't the true cost of a 15.10 t-shirt via OMGU ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> they were all out of bags for life...
<daftykins> i hear the UK has finally caught up with the channel islands and now forces the payment of 5p per shopping bag!
<zmoylan-pi> and now people just take bastkets home with them from supermarket
 * popey gets shopping delivered unlike the barbarians who actually _go_ to the shops
<zmoylan-pi> i like to pick my shopping that hasn't beed prefondled... too much...
<zmoylan-pi> *been
 * SuperEngineer fondles zmoylan-pi's evening meal by remote IOT food fondling device
<zmoylan-pi> it still wouldn't be as shocking as what i saw today...
<SuperEngineer> we await...
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a nokia with broken screen today, my world is shaken...
<daftykins> !
<zmoylan-pi> mate had it in their pocket and ran accidently into a skip... the screen hit the corner and took the full imapct...  https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/657206146030280704/photo/1
<SuperEngineer> sobbing in sympathy
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeah but it had been blasted through the sun to see if it would melt
<zmoylan-pi> and am now finding no one in dublin repairs nokias... as they thought the cockroaches would have taken over from asteroid strike before one was broken...
<SuperEngineer> davmor2, so was butter... they never did get those results back ;-)
<SuperEngineer> Anybody here got a Vauxhall Zafira?
<SuperEngineer> Should have written that in CAPS to beat the sound of the fire engine 2-tones ;)
<zmoylan-pi> you'll have a devil of a time installing linux on that SuperEngineer :-)
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<zleap> is there a software keyboard in ubuntu, wildca4d in #dcglug is asking if anyone can help,  thanks
<SuperEngineer> zleap, https://askubuntu.com/questions/455336/on-screen-keyboard-in-ubuntu-14-04-lts any help?
<samfreenode> How do I upgrade?
<SuperEngineer> samfreenode, what model of robot are you currently?
<zmoylan-pi> one with pains in his diodes all down the left side...
<SuperEngineer> nice one!
<SuperEngineer> gives me a headache just talking down to their level ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...and life?, don't talk to me about life....
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how you upgrade an electronic sausage...
<SuperEngineer> ah, that's easy...
<davmor2> samfreenode: what version of ubuntu you on currently
<samfreenode> davmor2, 15.04
<davmor2> samfreenode: open update manager that should update your current system first if needed and then offer you the upgrade if you reopen it
<SuperEngineer> shouldn't a non-lts tell you when new version is available?
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: lts version tell you when the next lts is delivered too
<SuperEngineer> davmor2, YOU BEAT ME TO IT - & WITH A MUCH BETTER ANSWER
<SuperEngineer> I was asked by somebody [after just speaking to her colleague, her boss & my boss on phone ] how I managed to have 3 different conversations with 3 different people.
<SuperEngineer> ...  "Simples, I also use IRC"... but I find multi-conversations  so rude, don't you?"
<SuperEngineer> Made a friend for life.
<riyasmp> guys. thanks for help in advance. I m using ubuntu 14.04 LTS on samsung RV520 laptop. recently with a kernal upgrade it has sarted making a squeaky sound when on battery power along with annoying flickering of the screen. sounds and flickering goes away completly when pluged in to AC power. googling did not help much. can any one give any kind of guidance to sort this. thanks
<daftykins> did it go away booting an older kernel?
<riyasmp> daftykins, I havent tried that yet. do u recommend trying that first?
<daftykins> well it'd prove if the upgrade really did cause it
<riyasmp> daftykins, mine was a fresh 14.04 install and did not have a problem up untill recently
<daftykins> yeah, kernel updates come along - so hold left shift as the disk is about to be read on boot and pick an older kernel from advanced
<riyasmp> daftykins, okay if that sorts out the issue what could be the next step?
<daftykins> cross that bridge once you come to it
<daftykins> isolating which kernel, if at all, adds this noise is #1
<riyasmp> daftykins, ok..i will check that and will be back. tx for the help
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> allo
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> so I fiddled with my gfx settings on windows - switched the digital output to use 12 bits colour instead of the default 8 - much improvement on realism
<webpigeon> colour, now with more bits (tm)
<daftykins> diddledan: dun...dun...dun... two dead disks from the same guy :)
<MooDoo> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-23
<zmoylan-pi> deploy beaver army... or are beavers navy... :-) http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/22/idaho-historic-footage-parachuting-beavers
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> yes, yes it is
<TwistedLucidity> Is it? Damn. Can I go back to bed and ignore the world?
<davmor2> So morning head song is bad moon rising you're all welcome
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Mole Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> ireland thankfully has been spared moles, they all drowned i think...
<davmor2> JamesTait: there is only one song for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdwLp0co6C0
<JamesTait> I knew davmor2 wouldn't fail me. âº
<davmor2> JamesTait: there was only one song for that
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Morning after the night before - everybody at Canonical still hungover?
<brobostigon> lolz.
<knightwise> mornign boys and girls !
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you today ?
<brobostigon> knightwise: half asleep, havent slept properly in a couple of weeks. and you?
<knightwise> doing ok , trying to fit 48 hours into the day
<knightwise> pretty busy week for the company
<brobostigon> :) :(
<knightwise> not complaining , but just a lot to do
<knightwise> thats what you get if you want to be an enterpreneur
<brobostigon> very true.
<knightwise> havent had time to geek around in a couple of weeks. Starting to get to me :)
<brobostigon> :(
<bigcalm> Splitters!
<zmoylan-pi> what has irc ever done for us?
<davmor2_> zmoylan-pi: it gave us a way to insult you ;)
<zmoylan-pi> making enemies counts as socialising, doesn't it? :-)
 * zmoylan-pi packs nerf for gaelcon...
 * diddledan listens to the podcast
 * zmoylan-pi listens to diddledan listening to the podcast...
<diddledan> does that mean I have to repeat the conversation?
<TwistedLucidity> No, I recorded it. Video as well.
<diddledan> lol @ "bunfight. I mean collaboration"
<foobarry> blast you talktalk
<foobarry> stop screwing up
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't they need to shut down to stop screwing up? :-)
<foobarry> they just raised prices 15%
<DJones> foobarry: Probably trying to hide that news in amongst the flak they're getting over the dat breach and hoping people don't notice
<diddledan> interesting - apparently the start warts 7 movie has all it's digital assets stored on ZFS via nexenta appliances
<ali1234> "Does not encourage bad licensing practices (no license, unclear licensing, GPL N only)." - what does "GPL N only" mean?
<diddledan> N?!
<diddledan> ali1234, where's that?
<ali1234> https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria.en.html
<ali1234> presumably you didn't get to that part of the podcast yet?
<diddledan> oh maybe it's referring to projects that strip the "or later versions" wording from the GPL?
<ali1234> oh i see
<ali1234> that makes sense i suppose
<diddledan> amazon have a new amazon-originals series out - the man in the high castle - based on a philip k dick story
<booker> Hi
<daftykins> diddledan: look what you did!
<daftykins> booker: sit! stay!
<booker> what? :P
<daftykins> oy vey
<DJones> hmmh, join, say "Yo" and quit.......Patience is a virtue...
<daftykins> must be on KangarooIRC :>
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> Anyway, back to a real Dr Who. John Pertwee, but not sure why it's on the "horror" channel
<DJones> Maybe bessie will make an appearance
<awilkins> hang on, 15.10 is out?
<diddledan> awilkins, since yesterday
<awilkins> Holy crap
<Laney> hOlY cRaP
<diddledan> is that a chrismas prickley poo?
<awilkins> Does that include a Pi version?
<awilkins> Not that I want to go nuking my Pi right now
<awilkins> Well, one of my three Pi
<diddledan> I think pastry goes soggy in the microwave
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> so nuking pi is never an option :-p
<daftykins> a client is suggesting getting an electrician down in Spain to lay some network cable, then have me terminate it - how wonderfully pointless
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> why can't the leccy terminate it?
<bigcalm> Terminate it in the UK?
<bigcalm> That's a long cable
<daftykins> diddledan: ikr
<daftykins> just seems pointless to send me down there to throw sockets on and a patch panel the other end, i think it's his excuse to have me check it all
<daftykins> but the thing is, what happens if there's a duff cable? have to ask the sparky to come back anyway :P
<daftykins> with the added fun of a language barrier
<davmor2> daftykins: but talking electricain is easy, you scratch for bum a lot and say time for a cuppa, it's not hard ;)
<daftykins> siesta y cerveza por favor
<davmor2> daftykins: only other fluent spanish I've seen an Englishman use is in fawlty towers but I don't think that would be acceptable now ;)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you must mean "quÃ©?" ;)
<DJones> diddledan: Thats were gravy comes into it, microwave pie - cover in gravy or cheese sauce
<diddledan> "no, senor fault, is not 'on dose trays' is 'uno dos tres'
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> faulty*
<diddledan> or was there no u?
<diddledan> falty?
<diddledan> or was there a wubbleyoo?
<diddledan> fawlty
<daftykins> BASIL!
<m0nkey_> w00t. finally getting Android 5.1.1
<daftykins> heh :)
<daftykins> i wonder if you'll get the two sets of patches since as well ;)
<m0nkey_> I've been waiting for the update on my Note 4.. Android 4 was good, 5 has been laggy as hell. 5.1.1 promises to fix lag issues
<m0nkey_> I had a patch for stage fright about a month or two ago.
<bigcalm> I'm on CM-12.1 nightly builds (tend to update once a week). 5.1.1 works well enough
<daftykins> especially on samsung devices, you can't judge a release until you factory reset post-update
<m0nkey_> wifey has got 5.1.1 on her LG G3 and it runs great
<daftykins> and typically, cull all the junk apps via disabling them :)
<davmor2> hahahahahaha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUjvaMWKeBI hahahahahahaha
<m0nkey_> the reports say for this update it removes a bunch of junk
<m0nkey_> the 5.1.1 update is so much better
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> argh hudl2 out of stock, no more being sold
<foobarry> was just about to buy one for wifey
<foobarry> she is expecting one
<foobarry> anyone had experience of the lenovo tab 2 a8 ?
<SuperEngineer> foobarry, is that the tesco tablet? if so their still on sale here... check online and at different stores
<SuperEngineer> *they're
<foobarry> SuperEngineer: when did you lsat see it?
<foobarry> tesco stopped in the last day or so
<foobarry> out of stock :(
<SuperEngineer> I last it 4 days ago... bear in mind I don't go there every day and ask them if they still sell it ;)
<SuperEngineer> ..or try reading this link for a few suggestions http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/amazons-50-fire-tablet-review-suprisingly-it-doesnt-suck/
<DJones> Sheesh, why are businesses calling on the government etc to deal with cyber attacks. What has got to do with them. The goverment can't secure businesses systems, that comes down to gross incompetance on behalf of the businesses
<SuperEngineer> yup, thhey monitor every transaction... why should we expect govs to help just based on that!
<directhex> talktalk systems were proven dangerously insecure more than a year ago
<DJones> We use talksh*te at work for a number of our sites, Im just glad we haven't provided bank details to them.
<DJones> As soon as those contacts expire I'll be moving them elsewhere
<penguin42> they could tell the banks to sort themselves out so that knowing everything you told  your ISP couldn't do anything significant to your bank account
<ali1234> talktalk have never been anything other than utterly incompetent for as long as they have existed
<penguin42> yeh but the combination of competence and an ISP is very very rare
<ali1234> yeah but talktalk are incompetent even when measured against other ISPs
<DJones> ali1234: +1
<zmoylan-1i> +1;drop table; :-)
<foobarry> anyone tried a new kindle fire?
<foobarry> are there really ads on the lock screen?
<foobarry> i heard there were on the old ones
<foobarry> ijddfkiojoifdjsiojfiosasodij~.
 * penguin42 throws a ball of brightly coloured wool at foobarry
<foobarry> my session hanged and i wasn't seeing characters :P
<foobarry> hence the ~. at the end
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-25
<ali1234> how do i disable gcc -Werror behaviour when compiling old code that uses autotools?
<ali1234> answer: CFLAGS=-w ./configure
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> Just thought I'd send a message of sympathy to those UK folks who forgot the change from BST to GMT last night.... lol, haha & don't forget how much we others enjoyed the extra kip.
<SuperEngineer> ssshhhh!
<penguin42> indeed
<SuperEngineer> [it's as if Big Bang Theory is on!]... oops, it is ;)
<penguin42> and I think we're all suffering from temporal anomalies
<SuperEngineer> :)Don't Panic
<m0nkey_> So, 15.10 released. Anyone using it yet?
 * penguin42 has had it since the alpha's
<SuperEngineer> 9wot! 15.10 was in jail?
<SuperEngineer> & who releASED IT IT... NOTHING ON THE NEWS, NO JAIL BREAKS
<SuperEngineer> [&who turned caps on?]   ;-D
<diddledan> morning
 * penguin42 yawns
<SuperEngineer> zzzz
<DJones> diddledan: I know the clock went back an hour, but Morning at 3:41pm.....
<DJones> Thats some timezone issues
 * DJones settles down to watch Convoy
<zmoylan-pi> roger rubber duck
<zmoylan-pi> that's a 10-4
<DJones> Yup, thats the one
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think i've seen that since 80s.... i do have smokey and the bandit on dvd here somewhere though...
<DJones> Convoy was the serious film, rather than the smokey & the bandit comedy version
<DJones> Yeah, it has comedy in it, but I always find it a lot more serious
<DJones> Sort of Rambo without the knives & violence :)
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I wonder why that is - I haven't checked freeview in a while and I'm now unable to receive two muxes (uhf channel 44 and 45 from hannington) but the other 4 muxes are fine
<neuro> because your aerial sucks?
<neuro> or because there was engineering work on Tuesday?
<zmoylan-pi> or he's wearing his extra thick tinfoil hat today...
<neuro> around his telly?
<zmoylan-pi> his head is between the aerial and the transmitter...
<diddledan> it's an hdhomerun rather than a tv
<zmoylan-pi> it's a _very_ big head :-)
<daftykins> aren't those US only o0
<diddledan> daftykins, they do a dvb model
<daftykins> crikey, is it a network one or just physical connection of some kind?
<daftykins> they have those neat ones in the US where you can have Kodi be a frontend for it
<diddledan> it's ip-based
<diddledan> http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/hdhomerun-connect-uk/ <-- one o those
<penguin42> diddledan: Do you know what frequencies those muxes are on?
<daftykins> neat-o
<diddledan> penguin42 658 and 666 Mhz
<penguin42> devil's own mux
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> ok, so that's nowhere near the new 4g frequencies
<diddledan> it can occasionally lock but not consistently
<daftykins> a dark figure appears on screen and asks diddledan what he wants
<daftykins> :>
<penguin42> diddledan: We had problems we reckon from increased tree growth
<diddledan> if it's antenna-related I'm not sure I can do anything about it - I _think_ I'm on a shared feed
<penguin42> we got a new aerial put up
<diddledan> I never had a reason to question where it came from because there was a hook-up socket in the corner of my living room which worked when I moved-in so I used it :-)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> although there's a large box downstairs on the wall which IIRC had something written on it about media
<zmoylan-pi> it says 'post no bills'? :-)
<diddledan> I assumed it was a distribution system
<penguin42> Bill wasn't very happy about it
<diddledan> it just seems odd that it's those two channels which don't work and the rest are romping along with excellent strength and quality percentage readouts
<penguin42> diddledan: The ones you can't get, are they the ones with the random commercial channels?
<diddledan> oh, hmm, maybe I'm mistaken about the strength and quality - seems they're all borderline. the symbol quality was what I was reading as excellent
<diddledan> the bbc multiplexes are better than the rest tho
<diddledan> which afaik is par for the course with everywhere
<penguin42> yeh
<diddledan> maybe I don't have an antenna attached :-p
<diddledan> .. and my cables are acting as a makeshift :-D
<penguin42> I doubt it on coax
 * zmoylan-pi goes to copy naked gun movies to tablet for watching...
<daftykins> very well, Nordberg
<zmoylan-pi> we won't rest till we catch the people who did this... now how about getting lunch?
<daftykins> did i mention Enya's releasing a new album named after the island of Sark near me?
<zmoylan-pi> she lives just up the road from me...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> do give 'er a wave
<Myrtti> well that was brilliant. Upgraded the virtual machine to 15.10, ethernet interface got renamed and obviously it couldn't connect to the internet anymore.
<daftykins> well that's a very minor task
<diddledan> unless you don't have console access
<daftykins> be a pretty pants virt setup
<diddledan> aws
<Myrtti> https://askubuntu.com/questions/689070/network-interface-name-changes-after-update-to-15-10-udev-changes
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-24
<diplo> Morning all
<BigRedS> gooood morning!
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> morning
<knightwi1e> hey popey
<brobosti1on> morning boys and girls.
<Gargoyle> mornin
<diddledan> evening
 * zmoylan-pi hugs mug of tea and contemplates turning on the ligths as it's so gloomy...
<diddledan> it's cold, too
 * diddledan hugs zmoylan-pi's mug of tea, too
 * zmoylan-pi pushes the pack of generic penguins towards diddledan to go with mug of tea
<diddledan> puffins ftw
<zmoylan-pi> aldi seal bars...
<diddledan> \o/
 * davmor2 watches the pack of penguins knock diddledan's tea off the table cause penguins are evil
 * zmoylan-pi wishes there were puffins around the east cost of ireland... one of the few sea birds i haven't seen
<daftykins> afternoon all
<daftykins> wowzer, i listed 3 smartphones for sale yesterday and the first one is out of my hands already :D
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins eats tonight \o/
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> only Â£35 for a Samsung Galaxy S3
<zmoylan-pi> noodles it is...
<daftykins> aww yis
<daftykins> i'm on a diet since the US trip so no more curry ;)
<zmoylan-pi> noodles for using your noodle
<zmoylan-pi> no spicebag for daftykins then...
<daftykins> was that that funny Irish chipper thing?
<zmoylan-pi> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> seems one of our d&d gaming group had one recently
<zmoylan-pi> is now a fan
<Azelphur> Hey folks, OpenVPN driving me a little nuts. I have a virtual machine running Ubuntu Server, OpenVPN and a web server. Shutting down the VPN allows me access to the webserver, as soon as I fire up OpenVPN - no access to the webserver. Any ideas?
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> Azelphur: pastebin of "netstat -tuln" before and after?
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://dpaste.de/wZao
<Azelphur> the web bit is listening on 58846 for reference
<daftykins> thank tux for that 'raw' button XD
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> so is that you trying to run it on UDP 50302?
<daftykins> it being OpenVPN
<Azelphur> daftykins: I guess, the OpenVPN part works fine, it connects and I can route traffic through the VPN
<daftykins> from what point are you trying to hit the site? your desktop on the same home network?
<Azelphur> correct
<diddledan> Azelphur: are you routing ALL traffic through the VPN? if so then the web server will only be accessible through the VPN
<Azelphur> diddledan: yup, that's the problem.
<daftykins> mmm gotta change your OpenVPN config
<daftykins> if your chosen web server were listening on all interfaces you'd hit it on the VPN host IP :D possibly 10.8.0.1 on a default config
<Azelphur> question is what to :)
<diddledan> you could try messing with iptables...
<Azelphur> yea, I think that's what I'm gonna have to do, sounds painful >.<
<diddledan> basically routing ALL traffic through the VPN means that replies on your public IP to the web server are trying to go through the VPN which has a different public IP
<diddledan> random aside: I love the theme music for Westworld
<Azelphur> indeed, seems like what I want is traffic splitting, or split tunnelling
<diddledan> the whole intro is epic
<daftykin1> err not sure if my last messages got through there before Wilhelm killed me
<diddledan> aww, poor daftykin1
<daftykin1> Azelphur: did you see the digitalocean guide? that has some handy tips
<daftykin1> ikr :(
<Azelphur> daftykin1: I did not, link?
<daftykin1> diddledan: i lost mein Wilhelm </Archer>
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins last message pre split was 'if your chosen web server...'
<daftykin1> zmoylan-pi: ty sir
<daftykin1> 13:35 < daftykins> it has a couple of routing changes that i'd bet will come in handy, i didn't ask which release you've got on there either
<daftykin1> oh they've done a new one for xenial - https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-an-openvpn-server-on-ubuntu-16-04
<daftykin1> i've always followed the trusty one, personally
<Azelphur> daftykin1: yea, I don't need to set up a server, I already have one rented :)
<daftykin1> Azelphur: no look at the config, the guide is about the OS - not their service
<daftykin1> focus, people
<Azelphur> I see
<daftykin1> check out step 7
<daftykins> if those edits don't work, whatever your VPS is using must have modified packages
<daftykins> physical trusty server i have at a clients failed to come back after rebooting it for a new kernel again, it only ever happens if i'm not there... if i am on-site to reboot it, it's always fine
<zmoylan-pi> dancing frog problem http://www.retrologic.com/jargon/D/dancing-frog.html 'hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag time gal...' â«
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://dpaste.de/S9Sw woo, I'm batman
<Azelphur> VPN provider told me that was impossible
<zmoylan-pi> looks like patrick stewarts twitter has been hacked
<daftykins> "VPN provider" o0
<daftykins> i thought you were hosting it :P
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> so it's also debian and you asked here
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope, not hosting
<Azelphur> daftykins: also nope, not debian, Deluged package for Ubuntu creates the user debian-deluged and runs it under that.
<daftykins> oh i thought you were saying you'd fixed it but i don't follow the relevance of the paste
<Azelphur> daftykins: I have fixed it, I can now select which traffic goes through the VPN and which doesn't
<daftykins> yeah my guide link had relevant params to that methinks
<Azelphur> I see :)
<daftykins> per user or per process could be fun though
<Azelphur> well I'm happy anyway, been stabbing at this one for days
<daftykins> seriously?
<daftykins> ouch :P
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I can do per-user, per process, whatever really now
<Azelphur> just iptables mark it
<daftykins> here's a funny one i had a bit ago, my OpenVPN setup on a DO VPS died, couldn't understand why it wasn't working - turned out i'd accidentally booted a 32-bit kernel on a 64-bit host a while back, so it was unable to load the kernel modules to have the routing rules in \o/
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> they've since realised they can't keep up with kernel updates though and have just implemented a GRUB loader to load the default you have installed on the virtual disk
<Brebblella> Hi, I've installed ubuntu, changed to XFCE, but the nm-applet is missing from the indicator panel. nm-applet appears to be loaded, and a notification pops up saying there are wifi networks to connect to, but it's not in the indicator area. Any ideas?
<Brebblella> Nada? Google is no help :(
<daftykins> they always wait so long
<diddledan> so so long
<daftykins> diddledan: played with yonder Nexus 5x HDR - http://imgur.com/a/KhmYP
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/774312067297718272
<daftykins> so who had their Asda online shopping cancelled today? :O
<diddledan> were they having problems?
<daftykins> apparently a glitch cancelled 15% of weekend orders!
<diddledan> oops
<brobostigon> https://open.spotify.com/track/1pHVfiNHMMZYquR35fTZdM :)
<brobostigon> for my fiance, https://open.spotify.com/track/5js1JJOAkR5KwlifBpvHMN
 * daftykins doesn't use streaming services
 * brobostigon is reluactant, but does.
<daftykins> reason i mention is last time i clicked a link i don't think it even told me what the track was
<brobostigon> for a very good reason that song, :'(
<daftykins> oh it does, good ol' Queen
<daftykins> oh, how's she doing?
<brobostigon> days of our lives, queen
 * brobostigon will no longer be a father, <= 4 weeks ago.
<daftykins> :( sorry to hear
<brobostigon> i am sorry too, :'(
<brobostigon> i have played loads of piano and drums and written music.
<daftykins> ah neat
<daftykins> hope it helps!
<brobostigon> we will see.
<brobostigon> it would help if i could write in piano notation, and not just precussion notation.
<brobostigon> percussion*
<daftykins> alien world to me, that one
<brobostigon> its still alien to me, and i have played the drums for ten years plus.
<brobostigon> how could i emulate a synthasiser on a normal computer?
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> http://linuxsynths.com/ o0
<daftykins> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/natty/zynaddsubfx/ haha natty
<daftykins> that was ~11.04?
<brobostigon> was what i just found too. :)
<daftykins> is it still current? i almost ran !info against it
<brobostigon> no idea.
<brobostigon> something that i could map synth keys to my keyboard keys would be good.
<rainbowwarrior> hello
<daftykins> hi
<daftykins> how's it going, rainbowwarrior?
<rainbowwarrior> hi daffykins ok ty and you ?
<rainbowwarrior> oops typo
<daftykins> yep all good ta :) relaxing evening here
<m0nkey_> wait. what?
<m0nkey_> I don't need rEFInd anymore to boot Ubuntu as a solo OS on a Mac?
<diddledan> m0nkey_: haven't needed it for years
<diddledan> m0nkey_: just bless the refi loader
<diddledan> refi*
<m0nkey_> I didn't even bless the loader
<diddledan> efi* damn autocorrect
<daftykins> crikey.
<diddledan> yeah I think the installer can do the bless itself now, too
<daftykins> m0nkey_: it's still a mac though, can't help with that ;D
<m0nkey_> Rather have Ubuntu than macos on it
<daftykins> oh agreed, but rather any hardware than that, i mean ;)
<daftykins> talk of the devil, they're releasing more on Thursday
<m0nkey_> it's a laptop from 2012, i'm not replacing it until it dies
<diddledan> m0nkey_: mine is a late 2012 mbp
 * diddledan finds the model number
<m0nkey_> mine is a 2012 i5 air
<diddledan> oh, early 2013
<diddledan> MacBookPro10,2
<daftykins> diddledan: have you reclaimed your little soldier yet?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> I'm on it now
 * daftykins instantly regrets that phrasing
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> don't you have a vastly superior spec desktop?
<diddledan> yes
<diddledan> :-p
<brmbrmcar> i don't like apple
<brmbrmcar> osx<windows<linux
<daftykins> nah see that's a daft claim
<daftykins> the only real answer is they all suck, but we pick the ones we either get paid to deal with, or the ones we mind picking up after the least
<zmoylan-pi> even if i am paid to deal with it i have no respect or admiration for windows
<zmoylan-pi> it's just a constant battle of wills with a big pile of poo...
<zmoylan-pi> i've had mac, i've given up on mac... linux is all that remains
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: we should make a card game about IT support situations
<zmoylan-pi> i think i've seen some...
<daftykins> i could put "compiling a compatible wifi driver module" on one, then you respond with a Windows quip
<daftykins> and we keep going 'til we're out of ideas :>
<zmoylan-pi> a drive 200miles to disover muppet didn't plug in pc, lose 3 turns...
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> discover customers new pc is just a monitor, transfer them to sales, get cut of commission 20 shekels
<zmoylan-pi> discover that customer can't connect to wifi as they have no wifi and have been using neighbours for 5 years till they changed password.  lose 1 turn explaining to them that they have to sign up with an isp and wait for installation
<zmoylan-pi> it would really be just a list of some of my weirder problems... :-)
<popey> there really is a game in this
<zmoylan-pi> so i'd see it as a card game with players been developers/admins/managers each with abilities taking turns...
<zmoylan-pi> a manager would hold all the cards but could only play 1 due to short attention span... :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> although he or she could also defuse an employee with management phrases
<zmoylan-pi> management would also have less turns as they were tied up in meetings all the time...
<zmoylan-pi> so it would have goals for money, life, career.  developers obviously score badly when trying to get a life or money...
<zmoylan-pi> and every time a chance card turns up a new language/platform they'd lose money time having to invest time/money investigating it... :-)
<daftykins> you should put romance in, then you can do the Star Trek thing of love always losing out to career
<daftykins> "well i love you, but i just got promoted to this far off station in the ass-end of nowhere"
<daftykins> *credits roll*
<zmoylan-pi> get a job were you can telecommute, win the game... :-) goals for developers
<daftykins> ooh that sounds like what we should call it
<zmoylan-pi> get a job were you are allowed use a cattle prod on users goals for admins
<zmoylan-pi> get a job were you can get drunk as a skunk at lunch, goals for managers
 * zmoylan-pi will have a sniff around gaelcon this weekend and have a look at the card games and see if anything seems like a platform for this...
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> fame is within reach
<zmoylan-pi> a card reading. a nutter named daftykins on irc helps you fix managers desktop in record time, get a backhander bonus 10 shekels and draw another 2 cards
<m0nkey_> hmm
<m0nkey_> networkmanager doesn't always show the correct wifi status after sleep
<diddledan> my desktop has an issue with network manager - it loses it's ip4 address shortly after boot up but ip6 stays active
<diddledan> it does it in both 16.04 and 16.10
<m0nkey_> network for me comes up
<m0nkey_> just shows the network is offline
<daftykins> is it not trying to get a lease again?
<diddledan> seems not
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-25
<m0nkey_> nope, ubuntu is bugging out. time to try something else.
<daftykins> which release did you install?
<daftykins> nm gotta sleep, nn \o
<zmoylan-pi> o.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan_> nn
<daftykins> btw m0nkey_ can be our new late night buddy to replace shauno, then the band'll be back together ;)
<daftykins> RIP shauno
<daftykins> he even owns apple!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: just don't send him away!
<m0nkey_> wait. what happened to shauno?
<m0nkey_> daftykins, 16.04.1
<daftykins> sorry, we pinky swore never to tell a soul
<m0nkey_> did he time travel again?
<daftykins> oh god he went back to cure Jobs' cancer, didn't he?
<daftykins> diddledan: damn it
<daftykins> diddledan_: double damn it
<diddledan_> double dog damn
<m0nkey_> welp, centos7 seems to not have that weird wifi network bug.
<knightwi1e> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> can't get dirty to root my android tablet :(
<foobarry> dirtycow*
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> morning foobarry
<foobarry> o/
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> How are you guys doing today
<davmor2> knightwise: well I'm awake
<foobarry> car MOT day. nervous all day
<knightwise> MOT day ?
<foobarry> gone for its annual MOT test.
<TwistedLucidity> Meh. I need to either pay for motorcycle insurance and get the thing back on the road; or scrap it.
<TwistedLucidity> Seems a shame to scrap it.
<foobarry> bah , extra Â£300 to fix the car
<knightwise> Ouch
<foobarry> costs that every year due to london speed bumps
<popey> I got given a car at the weekend! :)
<foobarry> wow
<popey> (Returning a favour as I gave away a car to them a few years ago)
<foobarry> i gave a car away once
<foobarry> vw golf mk2
<knightwise> popey = Opra
<popey> It's done nearly 200K miles :)
<popey> I gave away a ZX81 once :(
 * Seeker probably owes popey an old machine at some point then :P
<zmoylan-pi> carve a zx spectrum out of wood on a cnc machine and stick a pi zero in it... :-)
<brobostigon> very odd, my battery seems to be stuck on 64%, even though its been plugged in since last night.
<zmoylan-pi> that's the rootkit at work... :-P
<brobostigon> lolz.
<diddledan_> brobostigon: oh, sorry, I was running a bitcoin miner on there :-p
<zmoylan-pi> you too? :-D
<brobostigon> lolz v.2
<diddledan_> and some doge coins, too
<zmoylan-pi> just in case... wise man...
<diddledan_> wise man once said, go to bed with itchy bum, wake up with smelly finger
<diddledan_> that was from my childhood
<zmoylan-pi> confucius say, man with one watch know time, man with smart watch know location of every usb port...
<diddledan_> lol. first thing I do on holiday is check I can get internet
<zmoylan-pi> and if not break out the emergency 32gb memory card of cat videos...
<Laney> chimney sweep booked
<Laney> wiiiiiiiiiinter is coming
<zmoylan-pi> i can already smell the fireplaces in use when i go walking in the evening
<TwistedLucidity> Spot the bloke who doens't like in an urban environment :-)
<TwistedLucidity> *live
<zmoylan-pi> it's a very urban area.  smokeless coal has a smell to it
<TwistedLucidity> Oh right, keep forgetting about that stuff
<davmor2> Laney: 3-4 months of snow and below 0 temperatures apparently but we'll see
<Laney> davmor2: you've been reading too much daily express
<davmor2> Laney: no it is in most news sources to be honest it is never likely to really happen but we'll see :)
<Laney> I saw a post on twitter where they posted daily express/mail front pages for the last many winters predicting months of snow
<Laney> :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<Azelphur> Question for folks, is it worth trying to move from EXT4 on RAID6 to ZFS? I keep seeing everyone using ZFS for large storage arrays and don't know why.
<foobarry> do u know how to support ZFS :P
<daftykins> depends how much you want to waste your life away messing with storage or just using it (:
 * diddledan_ messes with daftykins' storage
<daftykins> ooh sir!
<daftykins> just sold phone #2 \o/
<diddledan_> daftykins: stay away from my disks!
<daftykins> never!
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what is wrong with the last phone that it hasn't sold... :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's a samsung note 7
<zmoylan-pi> well... halloween is coming up and they restrict all other fireworks...
<daftykins> davmor2: you have one? doesn't seem wise
<davmor2> daftykins: I don't, but it seems like an excellent way to safely start fireworks :D
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> Samsung's a firestarter, twisted firestarter ~
<zmoylan-pi> in fifth element ii the samsung logo will be on the stone that represents fire...
<diddledan_> you know electricity is currently measured in watts? I propose a new standard called the "I beg your pardon?"
<daftykins> too long ;)
<daftykins> is that shouted, also?
<diddledan_> how about "huh"?
<davmor2> diddledan_: in here it's call a Uwot
<zmoylan-pi> uwotm8
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no that would be the highest uwots
<daftykins> oh my... i just found the remaining samsung S3 with a massively expanded battery
<zmoylan-pi> s3 are quite an old phone, aren't they?
<daftykins> yes
<daftykins> client killed one and i put a new screen on many moons ago ;)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbhs7czcxmj6xu6/IMG_20161025_200459.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> there's the damage
<zmoylan-pi> now you just need a new battery to strap to the back... :-P
<daftykins> only Â£5 on amazon, but they're not allowed to fly anymore...
<zmoylan-pi> on great thing about phones with removeable batteries is that they usually pop the back off the phone indicating the problem
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the flight ban was only samsung note 7's?
<daftykins> *batteries* on their own are not allowed to fly
<daftykins> that was precisely the case here, screen had popped off the front too
<zmoylan-pi> then how can you buy a phone online anymore, never mind 1 of a multitude of devices?
<daftykins> for tux's sake zmoylan-pi, a battery on its' own - not one inside a phone :)
<daftykins> so say i ordered one, it has to come by ship
<zmoylan-pi> well the i can see that if the battery is wearing a nokia for protection :-D
<daftykins> would never fit!
<zmoylan-pi> wait till they introduce new shiny nokias...
<daftykins> by name only
<daftykins> and yeah i've seen they're coming
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure wether to root for nokia nokia or ex nokia engineers who bought ms nokia dumbphone business nokia yet :-) /not a lot of nokia in that
<diddledan_> I vote the nokia nokia that's not nokia nokia but nokia
<zmoylan-pi> with just a hint of nokia added for luck
<diddledan_> better than knorkia, any day
<diddledan_> knorks!
<diddledan_> sorry, mom
 * diddledan_ goes back into family friendly mode
<zmoylan-pi> and todays most interesting graffitti goes to... ::drum roll:: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvol3ErWAAAzgtS.jpg:large
<diddledan_> it's V!
<zmoylan-pi> tis...
<diddledan_> love that movie
<zmoylan-pi> not as good as the comic but still excellent
<diddledan_> natalie portman totally rocks the shaved-head look
<zmoylan-pi> though i'd now lean towards watchmen as my favourite alan moore movie attempt
<diddledan_> oh the intro title sequence to watchmen is absolutely amazing
<zmoylan-pi> it encapsulates the entire setting in one bob dylan song...
<diddledan_> yup
<zmoylan-pi> they didn't tone down rosarch
<zmoylan-pi> they didn't try and put clothing on dr. manhattan
<diddledan_> they didn't show his thingy tho
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> people have been speculating about watchmen joining with batman and superman and wonderwoman to form a DC rival to Marvel's Cinematic Universe.
<zmoylan-pi> well a batman mate of mine considers that owlman, rosarch and ozymadus are all just various incarnations of the different batmans that have been done over the years
<diddledan_> now, when do Amazon air the Tick?
<zmoylan-pi> owlman is the 60s has all the gadgets batman, rosarch is the original vigilante, ozmandus is the now perfect cerebral version
<diddledan_> good theory
<zmoylan-pi> well this guy has multiple batman costumes so he has thought about it a bit :-)
<diddledan_> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and i think they need alan moores permission to do anything with the characters and he'd rather die that allow someone else tamper with them
<zmoylan-pi> looks like the new mac books are designed to annoy a lot of vim users... no physical esc button, a touch screen esc button...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yip
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-26
<m0nkey_> there are new mac books?
<daftykins> Thursday is the event
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/25/did_apple_leak_new_macbook_pro_in_system_update/
<daftykins> all USB C ports is the other rumour, so you'll need more accessories just to use standard stuff
<daftykins> so standard idiotic Apple :)
<diddledan_> have they got a headphone jack?
<diddledan_> they should put a lightning port on there so you can use the new iphone's headphones
<daftykins> and take some cues from samsung and have them all catch fire
<daftykins> thems cookin' apples!
<foobarry> anyone seen the secret red dwarf theme tune thign?
<SuperMatt> ?
<foobarry> http://mentalfloss.com/uk/music/47667/secret-red-dwarf-theme-tune-lyrics-discovered-after-27-years
<SuperMatt> huh
<SuperMatt> I kinda new that the sound was there, but I hadn't realised it was someone saying red dwarf
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<foobarry> is there a patched kernel on ubuntu for dirty cow out yet?
<foobarry> centos seem to be rather slow
<brobostigon> yes, it was released over the weekend if i remeber.
<foobarry> ah good. i already have it. need to do some POC with containers.
<foobarry> but need a patched system
<foobarry> yep, its patched
<davmor2> foobarry: https://www.ubuntu.com/usn/ 19th
<foobarry> after a few days of testing, docker security is terrifying. there is none
<ali1234> google gets really confused if you sign in on multiple identical tablets
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<dogmatic69> most anoying bug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpy1n9b1o2M
<dogmatic69> only happens in full screen windows.
<daftykins> time to dust off your 'Alt' key :)
<dogmatic69> ye, been using that for the last few days :P
<dogmatic69> cant be arsed to restart. I think its just 1/2 crashed
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> when it's so broken it can't even crash properly... :-)
<daftykins> YOLD!
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytEgqN-BdKA
<daftykins> really wish there was a title grabber in here :P
<m0nkey_> welp. that seasonic PSU i sent back for RMA died on it's way over.
<m0nkey_> Their test results say "Defective unit, No power"
<diddledan_> daftykins: you love my links, really
<daftykins> m0nkey_: heh can't beat that for a test
<m0nkey_> I got me one of these Philips Hue magic lights yesterday
<diddledan_> welcome to the botnet
<m0nkey_> The hub has been quite chatty on the network. Trying to figure out exactly what's going on
<diddledan_> IoT = Internet Of Threats :-p
<m0nkey_> The Hue wasn't part of the botnet
<diddledan_> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> then wait till the next one :-)
<daftykins> there's still time
<m0nkey_> I'm surprised it's connecting out to a server on port 80 somewhere.
<diddledan_> o_O
<m0nkey_> Everything else is using SSL
<m0nkey_> I might just block it from using 80
<zmoylan-pi> brownie points to the first person to make m0nkey_s light blink 'hello m0nkey_' in morse :-)
<m0nkey_> Plenty of mdns packets
<diddledan_> drivemeinsane
 * diddledan_ winks at m0nkey_ 
<m0nkey_> yeah, i've done the blinky light thing
<m0nkey_> yeah, this thing is talking to the google cloud, which is philips, rest is mdns discovery.
<zmoylan-pi> so if there is another humongus ddos will your lights work?
<m0nkey_> oh, and ntp
<m0nkey_> zmoylan-pi, yes. it's all local, it doesn't need internet access
<m0nkey_> ok, now i've killed it's access. disabled upnp. not sure why i still have that on anymore.
<daftykins> surely all it needs is an IP and subnet, no gateway and it's blind :>
<m0nkey_> yeah, they don't make it easy to set a static ip, it's well hidden in the app
<m0nkey_> Microsoft is the new Apple.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzMLA8YIgG0
<m0nkey_> Heh, they use the song Pure Imagination from Charlee and the Chocolate Factory
<zmoylan-pi> i've always found it interesting that apple the hardware compnay makes great software and microsoft the software company makes great hardware...
<diddledan_> that all in one pc is interesting to me. I wouldn't mind owning one
<zmoylan-pi> if it runs linux?
<diddledan_> it'll run linux by the time MS stop supporting it
<m0nkey_> im the same. it looks like great hardware
<zmoylan-pi> unless they lock the boot loader
<m0nkey_> apple hardware has been lacking for a long time
<daftykins> thing with MS is they don't even make their own software work on their own hardware
<m0nkey_> sadly, the microsoft software may suck
<zmoylan-pi> it's not that apple hardware is lacking i think it's that they specialise in taking cheap hardware and making it really really optimal as they control the software that runs on it
<daftykins> although even when it's bad, it still runs better than Linux ;D
<diddledan_> daftykins: careful what you say, we're in enema territory
<zmoylan-pi> yes colon diddledan_ :-)
<daftykins> i should at least caveat that with 'on bleeding edge hardware'
<diddledan_> when will linux run on the iPad?
<daftykins> i actually looked that up for fun earlier, seems to be some semi hacks
<diddledan_> \o/
<daftykins> i got given this iPad 2 so tried to feed an aquarium app to the cat
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2ffzwwzl6jzk7r/VID_20161026_201332.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> she dislikes Apple products even more than me though
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how long it'll talel for the cat to scratch the buggery out of the glass
<daftykins> forever as it goes, she is even less interested in it than laser pointers
<daftykins> she's a string kind of girl, only
<daftykins> btw that's 4K so zmoylan-pi you probably won't be able to play it ;)
<zmoylan-pi> not even chewing expensive lightning leads? ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> as long as you drop it down to 256 colours i'll be happy :-)
<daftykins> she does do that as it goes, hates white cables when i've had people bring me things to fix
<daftykins> wow the surface studio is still using old 9xx series nvidia mobile chips, don't understand why everyone is so behind at this still
<zmoylan-pi> why sell new shiny when they have warehouses of old tech to flog cheap which ms can charge a premium for?
<daftykins> 'cause power efficiency makes more sense for these things
<zmoylan-pi> it's never seemed to be a priority before :-)
<daftykins> for Apple :P
<zmoylan-pi> i think at this point samsung will settle for not setting customers pants on fire :-P
<daftykins> phones are a bit different!
<m0nkey_> Bollocks. They're sending me a refurbished PSU as a replacement.
<daftykins> you can argue it
<diddledan_> grr
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: this for your freenas?
<m0nkey_> diddledan_, yes
<m0nkey_> Apparently it died completely when they tested it
<diddledan_> ouch
<diddledan_> I guess that indicates a failure?
<m0nkey_> Clearly it was on it's way out
<diddledan_> :-p
<m0nkey_> I guess so. A drop on the +5VSB means it's going to fail
<diddledan_> either that or they plugged-it into three-phase power and nuked it :-p
<m0nkey_> I'm slightly concerned because I have the 520W version of the same PSU in my desktop PC.
<diddledan_> ergh
<diddledan_> sucky nuts
<m0nkey_> We'll see.
<daftykins> i had all 3 of a same antec model go once, that was a pain
<m0nkey_> A buddy of mine has the same 520W, he's been having some issues with standby power (+5VSB)
<daftykins> after #2 went i just went ahead and ordered a replacement before the 3 popped!
<m0nkey_> I'm lending him my PSU tester to check.
<daftykins> that do a little bit more than just short green to black i take it? :D
<m0nkey_> Yes
<m0nkey_> It also beeps
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> yay 90% RAID6 rebuild
<m0nkey_> Blue light if good, red if bad.
<diddledan_> beeping things are always good
<diddledan_> I totally want something that randomly beeps
<diddledan_> maybe I should market a button that has the sole purpose of making a beep
<m0nkey_> And when you press it, it just doesn't beep. It beeps at a random interval.
<diddledan_> then someone can think to themselves "hmm, I've not heard enough beeps today...." then push the button and revel in the beeping goodness
<m0nkey_> Can't say I didn't expect that. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-26/apple-delays-airpods-wireless-headphones-announced-with-iphone-7
<daftykins> oh? things don't need to work for Apple to release 'em :D
<diddledan_> no bajoran earrings?!
<diddledan_> or maybe they're vibrating ear appendages?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/Fl70p heh these are the shorts i had on in that bike accident in late 2014
<diddledan_> hmm, they look like they've been worn
<diddledan_> minor scuffing on them
<daftykins> few holes several inches long :>
<m0nkey_> You got shot in the ass?
<daftykins> i especially enjoy the irony of the slogan on the label
<diddledan_> well yeah, of course there's holes.. how else are you gonna get your legs through?!
<daftykins> diddledan_: you sir are a smarticle
<diddledan_> is that an intelligent iced treat?
<daftykins> m0nkey_: weird spot that one
<diddledan_> lol @ shot in the bum
<daftykins> i believe you mean the bu-ttocks </Forrest Gump>
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-27
<m0nkey_> Who's a good e-mail hosting provider? Obviously Fastmail, but looking for others.
<m0nkey_> And no, I'm not hosting it myself. I don't need to deal with that anymore.
<daftykins> g suite :>
<m0nkey_> There is that.
<diddledan_> what time do apple do their thing tomorrow?
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: you could also use office365 in place of gsuite if you fancy avoiding google
<daftykins> i was gonna look that up
<zmoylan-pi> apple usually announce 1800 or so
<daftykins> 6pm
<zmoylan-pi> 10am pst
<daftykins> yip
<diddledan_> ta
<daftykins> i guess that answers when we 4 shall meet again ;)
<zmoylan-pi> but the vim hit squad will be protesting the launch of a laptop with no esc key so expect delays :-)
<daftykins> m0nkey_: you're invited to watch along and rip into Apple since you are the replacement Shauno!
<diddledan_> I tried running emacs several years ago. it's probably still running somewhere because I couldn't figure out how to quit
<zmoylan-pi> it's probably still loading...
<diddledan_> apparently it's possible to run emacs inside emacs for when you're in emacs and you really need to be using emacs
<daftykins> if you draw an 'e' on two apple machines does that also machine it's *on* emacs?
<zmoylan-pi> it's emacs all the way down
<daftykins> emaception
<m0nkey_> What happened to Shauno? And why am I his replacement?
<zmoylan-pi> shauno had a shitty day and rage quitted when i made a joke about his love of all things apple
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: you're his replacement because you're active this time of day :-p
<daftykins> he was quite one with the cult
<diddledan_> it was probably a joke about the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
<diddledan_> of the tree of knowledge**
 * m0nkey_ has quit (Quit: GOD DAMNIT, I EFFIN LOVE APPLE!!!!!!1)
<m0nkey_> :)
<diddledan_> NOOOOOOOooooooooo..........
<diddledan_> (the .s are small o's)
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think it was helped as he was getting a weird apple bug that day
<daftykins> i thought it was zmoylan-pi's line that he ragequit on anywho
<m0nkey_> I'm not quite prepared to rage quit yet.
<zmoylan-pi> wait till you see the new laptop has no ports whatsoever...
<daftykins> seems it's gonna have 4 x USB C which makes it pretty useless
<m0nkey_> I hear you just throw it in the trash when the battery runs out
<m0nkey_> Then buy a new one
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> genius
<daftykins> apple aside, shauno was a good fella though :<
<m0nkey_> I've tried selling my MBA, but no bugger wants to take it off my hands.
<daftykins> m0nkey_: presumably you might be doing something at 6pm blighty time though?
<diddledan_> someone is gonna invent a qi-charging laptop that requires you to place a mat on your lap and the laptop on top of the mat to charge it
<daftykins> that's gonna be a warm lap
<m0nkey_> daftykins, that'll be around 1pm
<zmoylan-pi> they'll now gradually have fewer and fewer buttons on them and maybe lose the hinge and finally charge a few grand for a fragile etch-a-sketch
<m0nkey_> I'll be at work
<daftykins> yeah, you need to work then?
<daftykins> d'aww
<m0nkey_> Meh, I'll just stream it.
<m0nkey_> Office bandwidth can deal with it.
<m0nkey_> Plus my interwebs is unfiltered.
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: don't they already have one of those? i.e. the iPad
<daftykins> you have to be on supported tech to watch XD
<zmoylan-pi> i'll wait till i see what the news is pop up in my rss reader..
<daftykins> it usually prompts about 500 articles on mine
<diddledan_> ms edge is supported strangely
<diddledan_> but chrome isn't
<daftykins> ja
<zmoylan-pi> but the ipad has no twiddly knobs on the front... the mac book pro 2020 will be an etch-a-sketch
<m0nkey_> The whole office is behind a Websense filter. Expect for a few IP addresses, which I got approval for, are not :)
<diddledan_> ooh, twiddly knobs sound fun
<m0nkey_> It helps to know the top network guys ;)
<zmoylan-pi> like the twiddly knob on the new surface studio thing
<diddledan_> that one you can take-off and walk away with it
<zmoylan-pi> i do see them going missing or running out of a charge when really needed alright
<daftykins> my friend in Houston works for a big software dev firm, they just took away the public use side wifi network SSID so they can't put their phones online anymore - AND cut all their patch leads so all their work machines are on wifi - insane.
<diddledan_> wat
<daftykins> you only get it if you preorder and wait 'til 2017 i saw XD
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds like a management decision...
<daftykins> full on manglement yeah
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how slow their network is now
<diddledan_> here's a good idea: take a cruddy 802.11g router and put 1500 computers on the wifi
<diddledan_> that sounds horrendus
<zmoylan-pi> 2-3 reboots a day and you're golden
<daftykins> thing is her team of ~5 are working on performance testing their Azure setup... :)
<diddledan_> hah
<diddledan_> good luck with that
<daftykins> apparently their tubes did 360Mb before on wired and is now down to 60Mb
<diddledan_> "is the server slow or is it just us?"
<diddledan_> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> mind i held onto a 286 for testing programmes on into pentium desktop territory so my code ran fast
<daftykins> seems to me like the equivalent of telling a plumber they can't work with liquids anymore
<zmoylan-pi> someone should attach the slowest oldest device they have to the wifi network to make that sucker crawl
<daftykins> meh, dual-band now :P
<diddledan_> get an 802.11b device on there :-D
<daftykins> triple band already being sold in fact
<diddledan_> aww
<diddledan_> no fair
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure someone has made a gizmo that will clog up the wifi bandwidth... intentionally or unintentionally
<daftykins> client phoned me up from Spain before, told me he was using the older ADSL service on the sketchy phone line that drops out often
<m0nkey_> OK, I'm out guys.
<daftykins> i asked why 1) that hadn't been cancelled a few months back like we intended and 2) why he wasn't just using the fast service he pays for
<daftykins> nn m0nkey_ \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan_> `\o/`
<diddledan_> Â¯\o/Â¯
<daftykins> ooh are those pom poms diddledan_ ?
<diddledan_> there we go
<diddledan_> Ë\o/Ë
<diddledan_> pompoms there maybe?
<diddledan_> mac vulcan-keypresses can get funky letters
<daftykins> i kinda expected a mac vulcan keypress to engage sleep :D
<zmoylan-pi> *\o/* would be poms poms
<diddledan_> or ninja stars
<daftykins> well since the macbook repair i characterise diddledan_ as poor you see, so the pom poms have shrunk
<daftykins> (totally not a stretch explanation)
<diddledan_> think I'm gonna hit the hay too
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> yep sounds about that time
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<foobarry> does anyone use remarkable markdown editor?
<foobarry> preview window does not scroll with editing text, and jumps to top of screen always
<popey> i use atom
<foobarry> i appear to have that installed
<foobarry> too
<popey> it has a nice side-by-side markdown editor
<foobarry> how do i turn on preview mode?
<foobarry> in the side pane
<popey> ctrl+shift+m
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> shame, since remarkable is actually nicer for simple stuff
<foobarry> https://github.com/jamiemcg/Remarkable/issues/25
<SuperMatt> Gnome Builder can also show you markdown
<diddledan_> markdown ftw
<diddledan_> morning
 * diddledan_ wanders off to find a jumper
<foobarry> is mycroft out yet?
<foobarry> ah, minimum 4 weeks away
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFyyeRESXTE need to be able to do that with it
<foobarry> sigh. new kernel (dirtycow fix) fails to resume from suspend
<foobarry> i just had to type apt install yum
<foobarry> feel sad now
<SuperMatt> I wish I had such options!
 * SuperMatt curses being forced to use a mac for work
<foobarry> my colleague resigned and had a new job lined up
<foobarry> foudn out at last min he would be using a mac. withdrew his resignation
<SuperMatt> that's a bit extreme
<SuperMatt> It took a couple of days, but my mac is acting more gnome like these days
<Gargoyle> SuperMatt, New mac or old mac?
<Gargoyle> You could always sneak ubuntu onto it! :P
<popey> hahah, that's a bit mental
<foobarry> i would feel the same. its a symptom of enforced working procedures when you are used to your own workflows and bashrc and vimrc etc
<foobarry> next thing u have to load a windows VM to access the HR website and you hate your life
<popey> I quite like that we get laptop budget and you choose whatever you want
<popey> some people buy macs and run ubuntu in a vm, others use the money for house improvements and just keep their 6 year old laptop :)
<TwistedLucidity> popey: That almost reads like it should be treated more as a benefit in kind.
<popey> i waited for over a year before choosing to get a second hand thinkpad :)
<popey> I can't recall how much it is, but it's more than enough to buy a decent laptop
<popey> just most people don't
 * TwistedLucidity gets given corporate kit, with the corporate install, corporate control, corporate issues...
<popey> pocket the difference I guess.
<popey> yeah, i used to be there. never really had a crap laptop from work back then... although there was one fujitsu I had for a while which was pretty bad
<TwistedLucidity> "Your PC will now reboot" NO NO NO I'm mid-compile! Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!
<popey> got replaced when the encrypted windows install  went bad
<popey> oh, yeah, don't miss that
<popey> although, with latest snappy install....
<popey> reboot scheduled to update the system - temporarily cancel with 'sudo shutdown -c'
<popey> The system is going down for reboot NOW!
<popey> kaboom
<foobarry> do i need an invite to join a paticular slack channel?
<popey> yes
<foobarry> sigh
<foobarry> irc for hipsters
<popey> unless you have an email address in their whitelisted domains
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh, talking about slack on irc... that's just sad... :-)
<popey> e.g. for the ubuntu slack, it's @ubuntu.com or @canonical.com which are whitelisted
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone seen error like this at the end of "apt update"? E: Unable to change to (unreachable)/folder/ - chdir (2: No such file or directory)
<popey> erk
<popey> no
<foobarry> checked your sources list for errors?
<TwistedLucidity> Got one server that does it all the bloody time. Works fine if I run from root
<popey> broken /var
<foobarry> ls sources.list.d
<popey> or maybe you're running apt in a directory that just got deleted ?
<TwistedLucidity> Nope. Does it all the time if you are not in /
<TwistedLucidity> I've read a few questions about it, but neve found an answer.
<TwistedLucidity> "broken /var"?
<TwistedLucidity>  /etc/apt/sources.list.d looks fine, only one entry
<foobarry> and sources.list?
<Gargoyle> Does "apt-get" do the same?
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, pretty sure. Upgrades running just now....
<TwistedLucidity> That's weird, why the heck is it listing Trusty?
<TwistedLucidity> Ach, haven't moved that one to Xenial yet; that's why. It's been doing this for an age though.
<diddledan_> TwistedLucidity: do you maybe have a local (on your disk) apt repo configured with a relative path?
<TwistedLucidity> It's possible, diddledan_, this server has been futzed around with since 12.04. How would I check?
<diddledan_> TwistedLucidity: in your sources.list and sources.list.d/*.list
<TwistedLucidity>  /etc/apt/sources.list is all "deb http://..."
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> those won't be local then :-p
<TwistedLucidity>  /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ only has emby and I'm pretty sure that's fine
<diddledan_> really odd
<TwistedLucidity> Aye, it's fine.
<TwistedLucidity> Started in 13.10 I think; just never managed to solve it
<diddledan_> maybe some config elsewhere is wonky. try looking through the other apt config files for relative paths
<diddledan_> most likely candidates are in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d I believe
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan_: Ta.
<diddledan_> daftykins: you here yet? 30 minutes till expensive shiny
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: and you!
<daftykins> hi!
<daftykins> just did a last minute M&S dash, left the house at about 5:12pm and got some shopping in before 5:30 closing ;)
<diddledan_> \o/
<daftykins> and their android pay machines were working again \o/
<diddledan_> MS business prices rising by 22%?! (listening to the ubupodcast)
<diddledan_> the broadcast is up with beats1 music holding img
<diddledan_> image*
<daftykins> yeah it's beginning to get annoying using your currency :P
<diddledan_> use euros :-p
<diddledan_> you're lucky like that
<daftykins> naw can't
<Laney> nice sky tonight
<Laney> woah
<diddledan_> cloudy here :-(
<Laney> just as I typed that someone at the top of the hill let off a firework
<daftykins> o0
<Laney> it's not really dark enough for that ...
<diddledan_> oh golly, it's that time of year again.. I forgot all about htat
<daftykins> me too :(
<diddledan_> how many weeks will we have to suffer?
<Laney> bah humbug!
<diddledan_> I like minty humbugs!
<daftykins> mmm i just tried crumpets with nutella on
<diddledan_> :-o
<daftykins> it begins
<daftykins> ok here comes the numbers and self congratulatory rubbish... :P
<diddledan_> yey, it's the adjective we're ever verbed
<diddledan_> we've*
<daftykins> so easy to quote review sites when you ban the unbiased ones from doing any :D
<selinuxium> hi all
<daftykins> lo
<diddledan_> ooh, new tv
<diddledan_> that wasn't rumoured
<daftykins> yeah you're slightly ahead already :P
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> only about 5 secs
<diddledan_> are you getting occasional buffering?
<daftykins> nope al smooth
<daftykins> +l
<diddledan_> odd that you're behind otherwise
<selinuxium>  Anyone else here had problems with snappy/ubuntu single sign on?
<diddledan_> wat. minecrack?!
<daftykins> selinuxium: best to take it to #ubuntu if you want support right now
<diddledan_> really need to see finding dory!
<diddledan_> I love pixar
<diddledan_> I'm a butch manly man, obviously
<selinuxium>  I will. I just land here... Was interested, that's all.
<daftykins> yeah, just steering you to the relevant spot :P
<selinuxium> Gettting over surgery and thought I could take the time to 'up skill'..
<daftykins> sounds like a plan
<selinuxium> Since when is learning something up skilling?
<daftykins> err you seem to be arguing with yourself there
<selinuxium> </rant>
<daftykins> diddledan_: dunno about you but this is all useless XD
<selinuxium> Something I have come used to...
<selinuxium> Finding Dory is great  :)
<daftykins> twitter crap though
<diddledan_> the ONE place!!
<daftykins> their boxes are always underpowered rubbish
<diddledan_> I predicted that name before he got to it
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> i bet you said 'iTV'
<diddledan_> wonder if it'll work with plex
<daftykins> haha
<diddledan_> will it also integrate with my automated piracy system?
<daftykins> ...your fingers?
<diddledan_> no new tv hardware then
<daftykins> yep, 4th gen can't even do 4K
<daftykins> ruh roh freenodelag
<diddledan_> not scrimping on the superlatives then
<daftykins> some very bold claims there
<daftykins> yep it really is USB C only! XD
<daftykins> idiots++
<diddledan_> the adjective we've ever verbed!
 * zmoylan-1i wanders in after a nice walk to shops
<daftykins> :> welcome back sir
<daftykins> you're just in time for the new stupid macs with USB C ports only
<zmoylan-pi> and no rs232c?! :-D
<daftykins> not even one!
<diddledan_> that's a huge trackpad
<zmoylan-pi> and me with a good solid 9600baud fax modem that needs supporting
<diddledan_> the adjective we've ever verbed!
<daftykins> no it doesn't ;)
<daftykins> Art Lebedev wanted to do this years ago with that OLED keyboard
<daftykins> folks are going to need to learn to be like fighter pilots, operating their eyes independantly to have one look at each display...
<zmoylan-pi> in the 90s i thought touchscreens were the wave of the future for keyboards and general input... then i started to use them for point of sales systems...
<daftykins> that must've been the early resistive tech though? :>
<zmoylan-pi> think of the malware that makes the esc button a send credit card info button...
<zmoylan-pi> the really early touch screens were adapters for crts with you breaking the beam in a surrounding bezel.  made it easier as you weren't touching electronics or plastics, just solid glass which would need to be wiped clean a few times per day
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: before those they had gimbals to mount the monitor onto which measured how much the monitor rocks and in which direction to calculate the position of touch
<zmoylan-pi> had those too... just a little calibration software when you moved it to a new location and they were grand
<daftykins> when did emoji become so relevant? o0
<zmoylan-pi> when the egyptians build their pyramids
<zmoylan-pi> urinating dog urinating dog
<daftykins> he didn't even command+tab between apps :(
<daftykins> diddledan_: i've been all these places :D
<daftykins> Coit tower there in SF
<diddledan_> the adjective we've ever verbed!
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan_> the adjective we've ever verbed!
<diddledan_> the adjective we've ever verbed!
<daftykins> and yet all these are using last gen skylake
<daftykins> Â£59.99 cable ;)
<zmoylan-pi> and with the way the pound is going it'll be double that if you wait till december...
<davmor2> can someone please slap diddledan_ he seems to be stuck in a loop
<daftykins> he's just enamoured with the Apple staff ;)
<diddledan_> SYNERGY!
<diddledan_> I need to capitalise on the shared synergy
<daftykins> sin + energy
<diddledan_> hopefully I'll improve the return on investment and penetrate the market
<davmor2> diddledan_: you know you're allowed to use whole sentences you're note the one try to catchphrase the next apple product out the door
<zmoylan-pi> whole sentences are for
<diddledan_> yey, they've got the requisite jonny ice video
<diddledan_> ive*
<zmoylan-pi> they'd charge more if it was ice as he'd be so much cooler then...
<daftykins> Jonny Five bit over
<davmor2> jonny five would be better :D
<zmoylan-pi> at we know he's alive
<zmoylan-pi> *at least we
<davmor2> Hey laser lips your momma was a snow blower
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan_> and that's a wrap
<diddledan_> I almost typed warp, then
<daftykins> that would be preferable
<davmor2> is it just me or did diddledan_ just say I almost time warped then :D
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkplPbd2f60
<diddledan_> uk prices are following the apple tradition of $1 === Â£1
<diddledan_> http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch
<diddledan_> base model 1449
<diddledan_> high-end 15inch is 2699
<zmoylan-pi> what is this the late 80s?!
<diddledan_> oh, they do a 15inch without the touch bar too
<diddledan_> that's 1899
<zmoylan-pi> what else is cut out of that spec though
 * diddledan_ shrugs
<diddledan_> oh gfx
<diddledan_> that's only got iris
<diddledan_> the 13 without the touchbar is 1249
<zmoylan-pi> already nicknamed the gropebar...
<diddledan_> oh it's confusing. they've got some old models on the same page with the new ones and there's no clear distinction which is which
<diddledan_> so I may be mistaken about some of what I just said above
<davmor2> diddledan_: Who cares we don't use MAC :P
 * diddledan_ ragequits
<davmor2> diddledan_: rage against the machine not against the quits
<daftykins> omw they want 2 grand for a machine with only 8GB RAM
<daftykins> (13")
<diddledan_> ooh, "now you see me 2" is released tomorrow
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> daftykins: yeah that's sucky nuts
<zmoylan-pi> people already have their orders in, in my irish linux channel...
<diddledan_> daftykins: I think I prefer the surface book at those prices
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: seriously? :P
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: but linux won't be able to drive the magic bar
<diddledan_> touch bar
<daftykins> i thought so much more of the Irish until then!
<diddledan_> wtf
<diddledan_> h265 video takes an age to transcode
<diddledan_> as-in transcoding mpeg2 to h265
<daftykins> you must be doing it in software
<diddledan_> yeah
<daftykins> not on GPU or with intel quicksync
<diddledan_> handbrake doesn't seem to support h265 hardware at all
<diddledan_> on windows it supports quicksync h264
<daftykins> unless they do separate beta editions
<diddledan_> on linux no hardware acceleration at all
<daftykins> figures :>
<diddledan_> it's taking about 30 minutes per dvd rip
<daftykins> total waste of time reprocessing SD content, sir
<diddledan_> which when you consider I have about 200 DVDs to do
<diddledan_> space!
<daftykins> right, space is cheap
<diddledan_> I'm reprocessing it to reduce the size - 200 * 5GB == lots
<daftykins> i'd rather buy a 2TB disk for ~Â£65 and dump 'em all as 1:1 ISO than go to all that faff :)
<diddledan_> where 200 * 600 to 1GB is much better
<daftykins> and then it's still SD and looks worse :>
<diddledan_> if I were to buy a new HDD it would have to be a pair of disks to RAID1 them
<daftykins> sounds good
<diddledan_> mostly because it will be a pain to re-rip all the hundreds of disks AGAIN
<diddledan_> so I want there to be a bit of protection against disk death
<daftykins> discs ;)
<diddledan_> yeah, those
<diddledan_> hands off!
<diddledan_> I don't want you killing my discs!
<daftykins> yeah the test server behind me has the clients old 8 x 2TB in RAID6 with his ~1000 DVD collection ripped to
<diddledan_> \o/
<daftykins> all 1:1 as ISO
<diddledan_> I tried using dd to rip some of these to iso but it complained that the disc was encrypted and so I wasn't authorised to rip them
<diddledan_> I forget the actual dmesg message
<diddledan_> I figure my DVD drive firmware is requiring a CSS decryption key to be presented before it'll let raw access to occur
<diddledan_> it's a blurry drive, so it's got all sorts of modern shenanigans I suspect
<daftykins> yeah you have to decrypt
<daftykins> we hired a kid to rip all the discs back at the time :>
<diddledan_> I thought I'd be able to bitstream it to iso though including the encrypted stuff but play it back using a libdvdcss-using app
<daftykins> that's not what bitstreaming is :)
<diddledan_> well I mean make a bit-for-bit copy of the iso
<diddledan_> disc*
<daftykins> don't worry you can still have USB A! http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/usb-c-to-usb-adapter?fnode=8b
<daftykins> Â£19 pls
<diddledan_> so the iso file includes all the encrypted stuff as it is on the disc without being decrypted first
<diddledan_> but my hardware said I wasn't allowed
<daftykins> or Â£69 - http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MJ1K2ZM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter?fnode=8b
<daftykins> diddledan_: not the way we did it no, dumped 'em all decrypted to make life easier for Kodi
<diddledan_> makemkv is good though
<davmor2> diddledan_: just cat /dev/sr0 to a file ;)
<daftykins> you can't
<davmor2> daftykins: shhhh
<diddledan_> I used dd, but yeah, tried that
<daftykins> good ol' DVD decrypted on Windows, job done
<davmor2> diddledan_: you can just install dvd libs
<daftykins> i think you're missing the task at hand, chief :)
<diddledan_> yikes, those monitors they suggested you pair with the new macs... 4K at Â£629 and 5K at Â£1179
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> quite shocking Apple not making their own for a change
<diddledan_> yeah I found that odd that they partnered with LG rather than branding it as their own
<davmor2> daftykins: 90% of the market use lg/samsung lcds they have too much clout now
<diddledan_> yeah, but apple have branded LG panels as their own previously, and it's strange to promote LG directly
<daftykins> davmor2: _I_ know how the market works, but i'm also aware how Apple like to reinvent the wheel with their own screens
<davmor2> daftykins: too much cost in it
<diddledan_> interesting report from makemkv on my dvd of ultraviolet: CellWalk algorithm failed (structure protection is too tough?), trying CellTrim algorithm
<daftykins> davmor2: err you do realise how they charge for things right... it's never about sense :>
<daftykins> hah funky
<daftykins> there is a small % of titles that can cause hassles i think
<diddledan_> I don't get how there's still an issue with DVDs considering the key is public
<davmor2> daftykins: also you'll possibly discover there is a antitrust lawsuit suing apple for not recommending 3rd party products ;)
<diddledan_> but I don't understand what happens on the disk-layout
<diddledan_> disc*
<daftykins> diddledan_: well they brought in newer techs like sony's ARCCoS (might be spelt wrong) and then the one with the fake program chains etc in the discs
<daftykins> the former preventing contiguous access to the disc as it caused some kind of trick upon a drive's firmware
<davmor2> diddledan_: does it play? if so just frame capture it in vlc and done ;)
<diddledan_> ultraviolet is released by sony, so maybe it's got that funkyness on it
<daftykins> could do
<diddledan_> Â©2006
<daftykins> when Sony released it they stopped many of their own players being able to play new titles, promised firmware updates then never delivered :)
<diddledan_> some of my DVDs go WAAAY back
<zmoylan-pi> og top of my head my oldest movie is h g wells things to come
<davmor2> diddledan_: pfff I got 1000's how far back do you want to go?
<diddledan_> davmor2: in particular I'm thinking the release date of the dvd rather than the movie on it
<davmor2> diddledan_: so am I
<zmoylan-pi> though i will buy the new variant of metropolis they found in south america a few years back when i see it around dublin
<diddledan_> the first DVD I owned was Sphere
<zmoylan-pi> first dvd was blade runner and jaws... a two for 30 special
<diddledan_> my PC wasn't powerful enough to play it back when I got it though, and I didn't have a standalone player. for xmas that year I asked-for and received a RealMagic Hollywood Plus decoder card
<daftykins> davmor2: shelves upon shelves eh?
<davmor2> blade runner, eraser, the fugitive all from 96 iirc  Then there were a whole bunch of re-releases too
<daftykins> hehe no way, i had the exact same situation - i got Enemy of the State in ~1998 but the Pentium 1 couldn't play it, not even with the creative labs dxr2 decoder card
<diddledan_> I think that PC had an AMD K6-2 CPU
<davmor2> daftykins: we only have some where between 3 and 4000 so it's only 4 + bookcases
<diddledan_> 166MHz
<daftykins> ~350MHz ?
<daftykins> oh wow
<daftykins> davmor2: haha, that's prime fodder for a nice big storage discless kodi setup ;)
<davmor2> daftykins: no it isn't
<daftykins> well you might not want to have it, but it is :D
<diddledan_> that's 20TB if they're all about 5GB
<diddledan_> I'm expecting you have blurries there too though
<daftykins> mind you i'd dump the SD
<davmor2> pfff pentium I had a 486 dx2 Laptop it was Luxury
<diddledan_> I really should get-shot-of my VHS tapes
<daftykins> omw
<daftykins> i think my dad's hanging onto his XD he tried to bring me a copy of The Matrix on VHS
<diddledan_> haha
<daftykins> no dad, no... let it go
<davmor2> diddledan_: we did that as soon as we replaced them all with dvd's :D
<daftykins> i have it here in 1080p ;)
<zmoylan-pi> at least it wasn't on betamax...
<diddledan_> betamax was a better quality thouhg
<daftykins> i'm sure that never saw that format :P
<daftykins> be quite fun to check out a laserdisc mind you :)
<daftykins> just once...
<diddledan_> VHS sacrificed half the bandwidth for one channel (forget which) so it meant you had poorer picture
<davmor2> yes but vhs was cheaper and more prone to damage meaning you would repurchase the damaged tape :D
<diddledan_> but, like with blurry and hddvd, the studios got behind one format and the other died. with blurries sony actually won though
<daftykins> it makes you wonder whether they put copy protection flaws in place to have a format win
<daftykins> since it's the early adopting pirates and porn industry that grow a fresh platform
<diddledan_> I wonder how many people who bought the hdvd drive for the xbot rued that decision
<daftykins> haha my foolish brother did
<daftykins> *HD-DVD
<diddledan_> how many films were actually released on hdvd
<diddledan_> ?
<daftykins> probably sub-5
<daftykins> oh wow, 484 US titles
<daftykins> mmmm cadbury's hot chocolate with guernsey milk \o/
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/dchest/status/791711151998570500
<zmoylan-pi> remember playstation portables umd...
<diddledan_> oh golly was that a terrible move
<daftykins> Ben Heck said it well in his PS4 slim teardown - "i think Sony would use proprietary electricity if they could"
<zmoylan-pi> they'd reverse the polarity in a heartbeat if paramount didn't have that patented in star trek universe :-P
<daftykins> thought it was BTTF: reverse the polarity, Marty!
<zmoylan-pi> doctor who... http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/69323/star-trek-episode-referring-to-reversing-the-polarity-of-the-neutron-flow
<m0nkey_> Before anyone asks, I am not commenting on any of the Apple stuff announced today. Mostly because I don't care. :)
<zmoylan-pi> and you now prefer ms surface... :-P
<m0nkey_> Yes, I like the look of the Surface desktop. Probably never get to use one.
<daftykins> new Shauno is far better
<daftykins> ;)
<New_Shauno> That better
<New_Shauno> ?
<daftykins> :D
<m0nkey_> That name didn't feel right.
<m0nkey_> Do I want 16.04 or 16.10?
<daftykins> what's the target device?
<daftykins> i always vote LTS :)
<m0nkey_> Still screwing with Linux on my old mac
<daftykins> which model is it?
<m0nkey_> CentOS, Works. Fedora, Works. Ubuntu has a few bugs, i.e. no wifi after sleep.
<m0nkey_> Errm
<m0nkey_> Mid-2012 Air, 13"
<daftykins> do you know the "x,y" value?
<daftykins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages this is woefully behind
<m0nkey_> It says MacBookAir5,2
<daftykins> i could update my macbook 3,1 post with a 16.04 test :>
<daftykins> ah so yours slips through the models on there then
<daftykins> you can write it 8D
<m0nkey_> Ah, maybe I need the mactel ppa
<m0nkey_> Explains why multi-touch never worked, there's a multitouch package in that repo
<diddledan_> I wasn't even aware of that ppa
<m0nkey_> https://launchpad.net/~mactel-support/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<daftykins> what's the newest release packages have been... *click*
<daftykins> yeah i don't think that's been relevant for a long while
<diddledan_> precise looks to be the newest package there
<daftykins> i'd fire up a 14.04 ISO and see what happens, but you'll need to pick a version with the HWE or non-HWE you want to use
<daftykins> obviously if you grab a 14.04.5 ISO you'll end up running presumably xenial's HWE if not newer, i'm not sure where that image would fall
<diddledan_> I don't _think_ the yakkety HWE has landed yet...?
<daftykins> sounds like a no then :D
<m0nkey_> hmm, they do seem like old packages
<daftykins> yeah not been relevant for some time
<daftykins> m0nkey_: i have a macbook pro mid 2010 coming my way to breathe some life into, either Sunday or Monday... if it lives again i can have a go with ubuntu and see what the current state of it is :)
<daftykins> doesn't hugely help i suppose since they'll be quite different hardware, but eh :P
<daftykins> it's atrocious how, if any mac owners are using that mactel page, nobody is updating it
<diddledan_> last update is november
<diddledan_> I wonder what was changed then
<diddledan_> a lot of those links are dead, too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacBookPro11-1/Saucy <-- listed under the link text of "MacBookPro10-1/Trusty"
<daftykins> probably for the best with dead releases
<diddledan_> Trusty still has a year to go though?
<daftykins> 2019
<diddledan_> aah
<diddledan_> why can't I read Chitty Chitty Bang Bang without thinking of porn titles?
<m0nkey_> I was given a LSI SAS 9240-4i to play with
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: nice!
<m0nkey_> Is that a good controller?
<diddledan_> better than none :-p
 * diddledan_ googles
<diddledan_> new they're just shy of Â£200
<m0nkey_> Hmm, should be able to cross flash to a 9211 IT mode
<m0nkey_> which would make it useable in FreeNAS :)
<daftykins> an MBA as a NAS? wtf
<m0nkey_> Heh
<m0nkey_> No
<m0nkey_> I have a FreeNAS box
<m0nkey_> Some E3-Xeon thing
<diddledan_> HBA**
<daftykins> ah so topic hopping to keep us on our toes!
<daftykins> i've booted the macbook 3,1 i was given, it can no longer even get firefox builds XD
<diddledan_> the webpage detailing that card is helpful: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d75lr1vnmn5jx43/Screenshot%202016-10-27%2022.38.22.png?dl=0
 * daftykins waits for it to upload
<m0nkey_> Can I now have netflix in Firefox in 16.04? Or did I hear about that incorrectly?
<daftykins> ah i know the avago site well, since they bought LSI who bought 3ware
<diddledan_> I can't get to know the site well because it won't show me the content
<daftykins> ah i missed the reference to the HBA
<daftykins> i have 9650SEs myself in a few places
<daftykins> got 16.04.1 installing on there...
<daftykins> OS X is now totally useless since the machine is unsupported for a release modern enough to run a supported browser
<diddledan_> what's the most-recent os x it can run?
<daftykins> 10.7 i think it was
<diddledan_> so four releases ago
<diddledan_> (we're on 10.11 now, right?)
<daftykins> err
<diddledan_> nope sierra is 10.12
<daftykins> 10.12 mmm
<diddledan_> so five releases ago
<diddledan_> that's roughly equivalent to five years old
<daftykins> cheap 128GB SSD in this old thing, it boots ubuntu quite spritely... wouldn't fancy dealing with unity on that hardware though
<diddledan_> that's ancient then :-)
<daftykins> perhaps there are ways to tone down the 3D faff
<diddledan_> is it an intel gfx?
<diddledan_> probably a GMA era?
<daftykins> yeah this old thing is a c2d i think
<daftykins> GMA3100 possibly?
<diddledan_> that sounds about right I think
<diddledan_> I had a c2d macbook a while back
<diddledan_> it was a c2d 2.4GHz black model
<daftykins> it wouldn't be too daft to run ubuntu on it, given the SSD and if a new battery were bought, plus a second 2GB RAM module put in (has 2.5GB right now in 1 x 2GB and 1 x 512MB)
<daftykins> just not worth any expenditure though
<daftykins> m0nkey_: two finger scrolling working in 16.04.1 without anything done
<diddledan_> the black macbook I had looks like it was from 2008
<daftykins> not sure if that counts for gestures too
<diddledan_> one of these: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.4-black-13-early-2008-penryn-specs.html
<m0nkey_> Huh, ok. So native playback for Netflix in Firefox, as long as I change the User Agent
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: you have to tell it you're on Windows?
<m0nkey_> Yes
<m0nkey_> But it works
<diddledan_> figures
<daftykins> if you were really married to netflix i don't understand why you wouldn't just use chrome to do it
<m0nkey_> I do normally, I was just curious.
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> there we go, quick install under 'additional drivers' of broadcom-sta and it's on the wifi, works quite well
<m0nkey_> Now I got me a working IRC client
<daftykins> http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.2-white-13-late-2007-santa-rosa-specs.html
<daftykins> that's the one
<m0nkey_> how do I get rid of this stupid Amazon shortcut?
<daftykins> drag it to the bin
<m0nkey_> I did that, but I don't want it in the launcher
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: right-click and select unpin
<m0nkey_> That's not what I mean. It shows up in the Application list under Installed software.
<diddledan_> aah, gotcha. erm. it should be uninstallable via apt?
<daftykins> that's quite the unnecessary move
<diddledan_> try `dpkg -l | grep amazon` to see if it's an installed package
<daftykins> might be shopping related
<diddledan_> speaking of similarities, why are the unity-webapps-* packages still in the repo when the unity webapp mechanism is dead?
<diddledan_> e.g. unity-webapps-youtube
<diddledan_> unless I'm confusing them with something else?
<daftykins> !info unity-webapps-youtube
<lubotu3> unity-webapps-youtube (source: unity-webapps-youtube): Unity Webapp for YouTube. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.4.16+16.04.20151119-0ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 23 kB, installed size 61 kB
<daftykins> heh ok that was not greater information :P
<diddledan_> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/what-happened-ubuntu-unity-web-app-integration
<m0nkey_> I just deleted the shortcut from /usr/share/applications
<m0nkey_> Probably not the most elegant.
<m0nkey_> Yay, my PSU is on it's way back from Seasonic
<daftykins> \o/
 * zmoylan-1i refrains from cheering till m0nkey_ report that 1) it's arrived 2) in one piece 3) they still have the same number of eyebrows after installing it and switching it on 4) it works
<diddledan_> and 4) the serial number is NOT the same as the unit you sent
<m0nkey_> diddledan_, i know it's not the same serial, it's a refurb unit
<m0nkey_> apparently mine died a death on the way there.. when tested it had no power
<daftykins> now they'll send you a new refurb over and over 'til your warranty runs out :(
<m0nkey_> as long as it works
<m0nkey_> still got another 5 years on the warranty
<daftykins> "You are not allowed to edit this page." https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook3-1/Xenial?action=edit
<daftykins> well that's quite the brick wall
<daftykins> anyone else got an account to try? could just be me
<daftykins> looks like you need membership of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki-editors
<daftykins> popey: psst how does one get permitted to make wiki edits?
<diddledan_> doesn't membership of etherpad group work?
<diddledan_> no, I've got the wrong name
<diddledan_> let me check
<daftykins> it's definitely about membership
<m0nkey_> what the heck is snap? a new package manager?
<daftykins> not quite
<diddledan_> daftykins: you need to be a member of ubuntu-etherpad on launchpad
<diddledan_> daftykins: oh no, that page specifically says it doesn't allow access to the wiki :-/
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
<daftykins> it's the one i linked already, chief
<ali1234> help.ubuntu.com is different from wiki.ubuntu.com
<daftykins> oh well, we'll see if anyone responds
<daftykins> it's quite a mess logging into the different sites...
<daftykins> amazingly slow too
<ali1234> should all be openid
<ali1234> yeah it's very slow
<daftykins> logged into one, still hit login pages on everything else
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-28
<daftykins> finally cutting the labels off these danger mouse t-shirts XD my mum must be getting forgetful, she bought a second one...
 * zmoylan-pi reports daftykins for removing those do not remove tags...
<daftykins> you can prove nothing!
<daftykins> need to keep scouring these shelves for more hardware i can get rid of...
<daftykins> ooh my i'm doing that thing thousands couldn't... reducing my spare IT junk!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> you're throwing stuff out?!
<daftykins> even better, throwing it in a box to donate to my old College \o/
<diddledan> what's wrong with you man!?!
<daftykins> i am in the pursuit of tidy
<diddledan> pfft
<daftykins> and minimalism
<diddledan> you'd better not start eating nouveau cuisine
<daftykins> sounds like an edible open sauce graphics driver
<diddledan> it's about as filling
<daftykins> yay progress \o/
<daftykins> the cat is so excited about the new spaces that have become available for snooping
<diddledan> :-)
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> got this stuck in my head this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPcyTyilmYY
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Now there's a blast from the past
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I know right
<TwistedLucidity> Next you'll be posting "Jesus Jones" tunes or something. :-P
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: pfff I was thinking Vivaldi and really go old school
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Vivaldi? The whippersnapper. This is old school: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQY5u5tmfHg
<TwistedLucidity> Hah, there's a challenge. Who can find a stream of the oldest composed music?
<diplo> Jesus Jones are from my home town, they came back and played at school whilst I was still there
<TwistedLucidity> I ended up at an after party with Garbage once, that was a bit surreal.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: Falling in a skip after leaving a night club is not an after party with garbage ;)
 * TwistedLucidity slow claps
<Gargoyle> Anyone got any tips for getting nvidia drivers in a macbook pro working better?
<Gargoyle> Specifically, I have an external thunderbolt display. When I am using that, the internal display is useless.
<knightwise> good moring
<diddledan> allo allo
<zmoylan-pi> i was just pissing by...
<daftykins> crikey
<diddledan> blimey
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/792014359824334849
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> http://news.softpedia.com/news/bug-bounty-hunter-launches-accidental-ddos-on-911-systems-via-ios-bug-509738.shtml
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/28/lenovo_downward_dogs_with_yoga_bios_update_supporting_linux_installs/
<diddledan> did anyone see this? https://www.linuxvoice.com/merge/
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/YouHadOneJ0B/status/791859539255648256
<daftykins> they're right, disappointment!
<popey> daftykins: saw your ping when i was in bed last night, join ~ubuntu-wiki-editors on launchpad to get edit rights on the wiki
<daftykins> popey: thanks! yep i hit the apply to join button, seems it needs a prod by an admin or appropriate title holder
<popey> thats me
<popey> one mo
<popey> done
<daftykins> thanks :)
<davmor2> popey: man you know daftykins is the main spammer on the wiki right ;)
<popey> Good stuff!
<popey> make sure you make money off it!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hello
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
<popey> hi SebthreeBQM10HD
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, by the way did get a load of usb's in the end from Canonical :), however it turns out they were blank
<popey> hah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, found out evening before
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so some got burnt at event as in ubuntu 16.04 put on usb's
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, so much for pre installed Ubuntu 16.04
<popey> sorry about that, will feed that back
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, yeah someone was like to me from my group, you should email them abou that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, yeah was trying to boot one up on a lap top that was borrwing, to install, then find out later that oh blank
<SebthreeBQM10HD> try another  yes blank to
<SebthreeBQM10HD> tied four myself
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> davmor2: shh :P
<diddledan> awesome! just stabbed myself in the finger \o/
<diddledan> I rock!
<Seeker> diddledan: how'd you do that?
<diddledan> easily
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> must be that mac of his
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> opening ancient cellophane wrapping some of my DVDs that I never got around to watching and am now ripping to my plex
<diddledan> I'm about half-way through my collection
<daftykins> mercy me, i just got brought two laptops - one was taken to a local computer shop and labelled as dead, so they took data off and put it on an external drive - i just fired it up first time and sure the disk has 48 bad sectors, but the machine works
<diddledan> daftykins: don't you dare kill that disc, too
<diddledan> you kill far too many
<daftykins> disk - and it's dead already! bad sectors!
<diddledan> mark them as bad in the filesystem and ignore it :-p
<daftykins> that's pants on head crazy
<diddledan> and pencils up nose uttering "wibble"
<daftykins> precisely!
<diddledan> annoying that some of these DVDs are double-sided rubbish
<daftykins> flippable or?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> just ripping a two-sided goodfellas disc which has half the movie on each side
<daftykins> oof
<diddledan> lukily mkvtoolnix can merge the two sides together
<diddledan> I rip each side with makemkv and use mkvtoolnix to merge the two sides' mkv files into one
<daftykins> does it not then have them as separate titles within the matroska o0
<daftykins> or are you appending
<davmor2> daftykins: you can cat them together for crying out loud ;)
<daftykins> davmor2: if that was another stab at humour you've really lost me this time!
<davmor2> daftykins: cat film1.mkv film2.mkv > film3.mkv
<davmor2> it's what cat does :D
<daftykins> pretty sure you can't
<davmor2> daftykins: :(
<diddledan> https://m.signalvnoise.com/microsoft-i-forgive-you-2fb6d6061a2c#.leszt6qhu
<diddledan> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/28/googles-ai-creates-its-own-inhuman-encryption/
<zmoylan-pi> we just need a zombie alan turing and we have the starting point of a great movie...
<diddledan> the imitation game.. and zombies?
<diddledan> like "pride and prejudice and zombies"?
<daftykins> hrmm seems http://uk.crucial.com/ died just as i went to price a cheap SSD
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> the magic touch extends to complete websites, now?
<daftykins> diddledan: shh :P
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rgmjalwccwufpje/AAClMHQBGPTwTm8GuaCc-G-Oa?dl=0
<daftykins> much better
<zmoylan-pi> the fan still looks a bit dirty...
<zmoylan-pi> i always worry about removing dirt from a system when my boss who was lengendariy careless took an ancient cpm computer to garage to use their car vaccuum to clean a 20year old motherboard and for some strange reason it didn't work when it got back...
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> it's not dirty in the 'after' shot.
<zmoylan-pi> seems he had done it 'loads of times before' and none of them had ever died before
<daftykins> a client down a steel company told me they'd tried to clean out a noisy fan in a PC with an 'airline' whatever that is
<zmoylan-pi> high pressure air hose
<daftykins> not much good for dead bearings
<zmoylan-pi> which in a steel company would be used to power equipment
<daftykins> funny, the Medion thing i was brought has a security screw on the underside panel
<zmoylan-pi> but often condenses moisture on sensitive electronics
<daftykins> mmm i mentioned not being keen
<daftykins> especially after seeing the target PC, the main company owners... being sat on the dusty workshop floor with the side panel off
<zmoylan-pi> you wonder when you see the state of some pcs that come in... the ones that are all rusted as it's on a floor mopped every night and the water somehow hasn't fried it yet..
<daftykins> oh they never clean there! XD
<daftykins> 3 years i've been trying to get them to build shelves for the PCs, or even buy litter trays to put them in
<zmoylan-pi> the one from a location with about an inch of mud on the floor...
<daftykins> nothing ever gets done
<zmoylan-pi> for those we got a plank of wood. and sawed it into blocks the length of the pc and screwed those blocks together to make a 3" platform.  varnish that and the the pc is off the ground.
<zmoylan-pi> in one case they didn't use varnish and the block rotted within 2 years
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> impressive
<zmoylan-pi> 'do we really need to replace the block?' 'not unless you want your pc to dissolve'
<daftykins> does greatly irritate that only emergencies make them see sense, but when it gets to emergency status whose problem does it become...
<zmoylan-pi> it needs all those extra zeros on the bill for their brain to take notice
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> ...problem... /yeah-yeah/ ...thousand quid /wait-what?/
<daftykins> seems the ol' rule of local companies being dishonest sadly continues then, given this one works fine with a spare disk thrown in now too
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
 * brobostigon discovered two new time wasting games yesterday, runescape and ryzom.
<MartijnVdS> Run escape?
<brobostigon> it seems a coincidence.
<diddledan_> ergh. clocks change tonight
<marshmn> yep - so annoying
<marshmn> I wish we could just get rid of BST
<marshmn> and stupid systems which don't let you set scheduled jobs in 'localtime' so I have to reconfigure them each time we go from BST -> GMT or vice-versa
<marshmn> thanks AWS
<marshmn> well, not just AWS
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-30
<daftykins> goodbye BST \o
<daftykins> hello GMT
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<tripleclones> hi, any one able to help me with a continuous key press issue I'm having. a continuius key press turns into individual keypresses after a short period
<tripleclones> really effecting my CS:GO play
<tripleclones> I've check all the universal access stuff is off
<daftykins> ...which you play on Linux?
<tripleclones> yeah
<daftykins> that's a hardware thing.
<tripleclones> native not wine
<tripleclones> only just started happening last night :(
<tripleclones> I'll try a different keyboard
<daftykins> repeat rate / PS/2 vs. USB for n-key rollover come to mind
<tripleclones> hey it is a hardware thing
<tripleclones> cheers
<daftykins> experience > *
<tripleclones> dodgy keyboard is only a few months old
<tripleclones> experience++
<daftykins> it's not a fault, it's a lack of a feature
<tripleclones> plugged it into a different USB port and its working ok again
<tripleclones> thanks for you help :)
<daftykins> popey: perhaps the group for wiki editing doesn't help for the help.ubuntu.com pages as ali suggested? still not able to create a Xenial update to: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook3-1/Trusty
<popey> daftykins: they use the same ACL, may have to logout / login, click top left ubuntu logo and optionally sacrifice a chicken
<daftykins> popey: roger that, i'll give it a whirl ty
<daftykins> must say as usual it's proving to be ridiculous effort just to try and spread some good ;)
<popey> the wiki suffered a lot of spammers over the last year so we had to lock it down a bit
<popey> that's gonna change though, I expect we will move to mediawiki
<daftykins> hmm, so might not be worth putting any work in now?
<popey> oh, we'll migrate
<popey> not gonna throw the pages away (if we can help it) :D
<daftykins> no go on the pages anywho, just has that 'immutable' everywhere
<popey> hmmm
<daftykins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook3-1/Xenial?action=edit - "You are not allowed to edit this page."
 * popey looks
<daftykins> immutable was on the parent, i mean
<popey> wfm.. did you logout / login?
<daftykins> (big table of all machine models + versions tested against)
<daftykins> yep
<popey> i would expect you to be listed on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntuwikieditorsTeamACL
<popey> as a result of logout/login
 * daftykins gives it one more kick
<popey> also CTRL+REFRESH on home page
<popey> sometimes needs a boot
<popey> I'm off to the pub for family lunch, will check in again a bit later.
<daftykins> yeah done some usual browser prods, not my first rodeo there :D
<daftykins> righty-o, enjoy sir o/
<daftykins> mines a dark ale
<daftykins> huzzah :O! it was simple, but seems ok now
<daftykins> gm penguin42 \o
<daftykins> er afty
<penguin42> that depends on your view of timezones :-)
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> but good afty, and I was glad of the extra hour
<diddledan> mernign
<diddledan> awesome, "humans" series 2 starts tonight!
<Azelphur> ali1234: you've done kernel stuff so you might know about this, how would I dig into the kernel not detecting a battery, as in, I only get ADP1 in /sys/class/power_supply/ while Windows sees it no problem
<penguin42> ewww battery stuff
<penguin42> Azelphur: I think I'd gather every bit of info about what windows sees it as; it might be an ACPI thing or it might be something special for that machine
<Azelphur> not sure how I'd find that out
<penguin42> go into the device properties and see everything it has to say about it
<Azelphur> sounds one hell of a lot easier than what I'm currently doing *goes to look at that*
<Azelphur> things that aren't fun: extracting the DSDT table, decompiling it...looking over the code
<Azelphur> looks like it is ACPI
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1569995 oO, I'm INT33FE too.
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1569995 in Ubuntu "ACPI support Intel Cherry Trail" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Azelphur> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/53toqj/whats_your_next_linux_hurdle/d7wvthv/ this is the person I need to stalb.
<Azelphur> stalk*
<penguin42> it's amazing how every one of them reinvents the battery management chip
<penguin42> Azelphur: What's the tablet and what OS did it come with?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> daftykins: risque of the day: https://twitter.com/LukeRomyn/status/922428740457652224
<ali1234> !info sagcad
<lubotu3> sagcad (source: sagcad): CAD/CAM of 2D program. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.14-0ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 1221 kB, installed size 5907 kB
<ali1234> !info sagcad edgy
<lubotu3> 'edgy' is not a valid distribution: artful, artful-backports, artful-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xenial-proposed, yakkety, yakkety-backports, y
<ali1234> i honestly have no idea why this software is even in the repos
<ali1234> clicking just about any button in the GUI will instantly segfault it
<ali1234> help doesn't work, and it constantly pops up error messages, sometimes in english, sometimes in japanese
<foobarry> there's a way to request deselection from repos isn't there?
<foobarry> maybe there should be a purgatory repo for unmaintained or dubious apps
<diddledan> foobarry: that's what snaps are gonna solve :-p
<diplo> Except there are already dead snaps in the store diddledan :)
<diddledan> wow that is sucky: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2017/10/the-recent-catastrophic-wi-fi-vulnerability-was-in-plain-sight-for-13-years-behind-a-corporate-paywall/
<NET||abuse> hmm, i've been running an old HP N40L microserver for years now, i'd love to get a more powerful machine, but wondering what the state of the HP microserver gen 8/9/10  machines is? any good?
<NET||abuse> well, looks like thye skipped gen 9 with the microservers
<diplo> Only issue I've heard is that bios updates aren't supported after warranty unless you pay
<diplo> otherwise still good machines
<NET||abuse> hmm, that's a ittle cheeky, maybe the age of the HP microserver is passed then, i dont like that support level
<NET||abuse> any thing else around with decent cpu/ram with 4 or so drive slots?
<NET||abuse> also really focused on linux support.
<NET||abuse> low power to performance ratio is pretty key too
<diddledan> kittyfish: https://twitter.com/samleecole/status/922482082743451649
<diplo> I've got to look myself NET||abuse - sorry got stuck on the phone
<NET||abuse> :) diplono worries,
<NET||abuse> hah, diplo sorry, called you diplono.. missed the spacebar
<diddledan> anyone stuck on windows? https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-10s-controlled-folder-access-anti-ransomware-feature-is-now-live/
<Guest66884> hi
<daftykins> lo
<diddledan> middle
<daftykins> thats a hotspot!
<daftykins> you scared them off again Dan
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> oh they tried to PM me, mmk
<Safiyyah> Hi all, my desktop won't boot up. This is Ubuntu mate, when it does it gives an error, I have put a picture of my screen here: https://i.imgur.com/yIKePvx.jpg
<Safiyyah> Now
<Safiyyah>  this is on ubuntu mate
<daftykins> ah our regular customer
<daftykins> what happened prior to this?
<Safiyyah> I have booted it up in recovery mode using the USB flash drive for Ubuntu Mate, I ran fsck and it loads up.
<Safiyyah> if you try to do it without the stick it doesn't work
<Safiyyah> daftykins, thank you....
<Safiyyah> I read up on it and it says you need another machine that is running on linux. Well the good news is I now also have a laptop running the same version of ubuntu Mate.... which is what I am using to communicate
<daftykins> tried booting an older kernel?
<Safiyyah> I don't know how to do that
<daftykins> hold the left shift key down just before GRUB starts up, should give you the boot menu
<Safiyyah> everyone on google is saying use another linux machine to fsck.... which I also don't know how to do
<Safiyyah> okay and how do I repair whatever damage there is?
<daftykins> well you would have had to have run fsck from the live session against each partition on the disk
<daftykins> well you just want to see if that works to boot from an older kernel first i'd say
<Safiyyah> okay let me do that
<daftykins> depends what happened before this occurred today, did a recent update or upgrade kill it?
<Safiyyah> no upgrade recently
<Safiyyah> It has been freezing up and we had to press the power button to get it going
<Safiyyah> I think that is what has done it
<Safiyyah> and I have caught my husband also using the power button to shut down... without shutting down the machine properly.
<Safiyyah> I would have liked to win that arguement, but I have to admit it does freeze
<daftykins> :S
<Safiyyah> I don't allow system updates regularly because of these weird errors. And if you remember last time he ran a system upgrade.... ruined the whole set up.
<Safiyyah> i had to re-install everything, which is something I hate doing.
<daftykins> i'm beginning to get the image of a machine held together with tape and string!
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> no not at all
<Safiyyah> i have a naughty spouse
<daftykins> but at least the monitor is nice now ;)
<Safiyyah> yeah 32 inch curve one
<Safiyyah> bought on your advice
<daftykins> well i wouldn't have gone curved but yeah :D
<Safiyyah> I made sure it wasn't a telly
<daftykins> any luck getting that boot menu to appear?
<Safiyyah> right grub is not automatic
<Safiyyah> i just get the boot up menu
<daftykins> yeah you then have to go to advanced options and there should be a list of kernels to pick an older one
<Safiyyah> I am in
<Safiyyah> but am in grub
<Safiyyah> you said before grub
<daftykins> before was just when you were to hold shift so that the menu would come up
<Safiyyah> okay
<daftykins> so... whats on screen rightnow?
<Safiyyah> grub
<Safiyyah> then went to advanced
<daftykins> mmhmm...
<Safiyyah> looking at the list of kernels
<Safiyyah> I had run the older one without realising it before
<Safiyyah> the older one and in recovery mode, do you want me to take an older one without the recovery mode?
<daftykins> most should be gathered around the same major version e.g. 4.4.0 but then have a different -xxx
<daftykins> yep
<Safiyyah> It still brings me back to the same message
<Safiyyah> and just before that it said something about fsck
<daftykins> ok
<Safiyyah> and control c
<daftykins> how about hitting enter to get the root prompt, then run the message it recommends to view logs?
<Safiyyah> i need some hand holding in this black screen of death
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> lovely command line
<Safiyyah> command not found
<Safiyyah> journalct1 -xb
<daftykins> ah it's not a 1, but an L lowercase
<daftykins> journalctl for journal control
<daftykins> Safiyyah: any luck?
<Safiyyah> https://i.imgur.com/c9BlMeG.jpg
<Safiyyah> Now
<daftykins> oh it's scrollable
<daftykins> cursor keys should let you move down to the end, i see it says 737 lines
<Safiyyah> 1500s
<Safiyyah> It is at the end
<Safiyyah> and now the enter key is not ding anything
<Safiyyah> do i type exit?
<daftykins> hmm well if there is no obvious error in there or the messages about fsck then perhaps it's best to go straight to the live session from USB
<daftykins> plug in a flash drive to boot, hit ctrl+alt+del then get it booted + online?
<Safiyyah> https://i.imgur.com/Cejvktb.jpg
<Safiyyah> that is the msg before the black screen of death
<daftykins> ah ok, bit different to what i was expecting
<Safiyyah> Is this meaning something else?
<daftykins> it's just giving a chance to skip fsck when it runs, so it could be there's an issue - best you boot a live session
<Safiyyah> loading...
<budok> hello
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> let's get a look at the disk config first then - if you open up a terminal and run "sudo parted -l | pastebinit"
<Safiyyah> it is still loading
<Safiyyah> maybe its frozen
<budok> how to land a job as a linux administrator? pls I want to change career.
<diddledan> budok: first: get skilz
<diddledan> budok: second: apply for job
<diddledan> budok: third: ...
<diddledan> budok: fourth: profit?
<daftykins> profit!
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> went to get another stick
<budok> thats sounds good
<Safiyyah> i had two copies one for the latop and one for the esktop
<Safiyyah> okay I am in now
<daftykins> \o/
<budok> no need for qualifications or certificates?
<daftykins> budok: where are you at now? experience wise
<budok> uk
<budok> i been using ubuntu for 8 years
<budok> i got little background on apache
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/mr_blobby/status/922562954746142721
<daftykins> so could you set up a Linux based file and web server if given a spare machine and no google?
<Safiyyah> I am running your command
<Safiyyah> if that question is directed at me the answer is no
<daftykins> nah it wasn't
<budok> i can on my locahost machine sharing videos and documents etc
<Safiyyah> okay
<diddledan> that raises a question: do you know the difference between "localhost" and "the pc I'm currently sat at"? :-)
<Safiyyah> your command doesn't fully work
<budok> localhost-stanalone pc is personal computer
<budok> standalone
<diddledan> localhost is a very specific term used in networking
<daftykins> Safiyyah: in what way?
<daftykins> is the live session online?
<diddledan> oh gawd, clones!
 * diddledan hides from the invading hordes
<Safiyyah> lol
<budok> can u broadcast your localhost without static ip?
<safiyyah2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/25804030/
<Safiyyah> there is an error message
<budok> i mean go public-online
<Safiyyah> and pastebin made it freeze (even though I installed it first
<diddledan> pastebinit, not pastebin
<Safiyyah> diddledan, no clones just needed to use the liveUSB for pastebin
<Safiyyah> diddledan, yes pastebinit
<Safiyyah> I installed and it brought out the warning
<Safiyyah> when I ran the command without pastebin I was able to ignore the warning
<daftykins> budok: umm you don't appear to know many conventional terms, so i think you might want to start with some qualifications
<daftykins> Safiyyah: ok "sudo fsck /dev/sda2"
<budok> i know can u help me pls
<daftykins> budok: no, you can't be turned into employable material from IRC
<budok> thanks
<diddledan> I dun giggled: https://t.co/N5PxvNwMo9
<safiyyah2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/25804065/
<daftykins> kids these days, wow.
<daftykins> Safiyyah: same command again but for sda5 and sda6
<safiyyah2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/25804094/
<daftykins> safiyyah2: ok nice, repair made... now shutdown, unplug the flash drive and try a normal boot
<safiyyah2> yeiiiii
<Safiyyah> it works!!!!!
<Safiyyah> okay can you tell me what happened please?
<daftykins> hard powering off caused a disk error, breaking boot
<diddledan> the root filesystem had corruption ^^ that
<Safiyyah> okay so that is what I told my husband
<daftykins> hubby broke it *whistle*
<Safiyyah> yes
<diddledan> blame the hubby :-p
<daftykins> +1
<Safiyyah> and he wouldn't dare use his windows laptop like that now would he
<diddledan> never "our" fault!
<daftykins> i'm shocked he's allowed near your PC! :)
<diddledan> lol
<Safiyyah> diddledan he powers the machine off from the power button and tells me to stop mourning
<Safiyyah> well its the family PC
<Safiyyah> kids do their work on there too
<Safiyyah> I have a mini laptop
<diddledan> moaning* - mourning is what you do when he's done it too many times and broke it beyond repair :-p
<Safiyyah> well now he wont be able to talk me down anymore
<Safiyyah> because he did actually break it
<Safiyyah> he said I was being too fussy and precise
<diddledan> at least it's back up now
<diddledan> "no use crying over spilt milk" ;-)
<Safiyyah> well thank God I have the laptop now
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> personal spaces ftw!
<Safiyyah> daftykins, in as much as am not great at linux.... I can't cope with windows
<Safiyyah> I wiped my laptop of the crap 3 months in.....
<daftykins> works for me (:
<Safiyyah> it was fast and okay for 3 weeks then the apps got slower and slower
<diddledan> daftykins: your smilie is backasswards :-p
<Safiyyah> in the end installed MATE on it and haven't looked back since
<diddledan> flexiondotorg will be pleased with another user :-)
<Safiyyah> daftykins, consider that you saved my husband a three day arguement with me not talking to him
<diddledan> he's the Martin behind Ubuntu Martin^H^HMATE
<Safiyyah> a very charitable deed indeed
<Safiyyah> last time he ran the upgrade....I was sooooooo mad, I didn't talk to him for 3 days
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> Safiyyah: i still say no dessert for him for a week ;D
<Safiyyah> lol, I had customer accounts to finish off, printing for clients
<Safiyyah> I was ready to cry
<daftykins> but you had the data all backed up onto an external drive right?
<Safiyyah> and the scanner is never a straight forward job, and I need it for work
<daftykins> if you don't, you really ought to if this thing is freezing up a lot
<Safiyyah> I didnt loose any data
<daftykins> not *this* time
<Safiyyah> I have paid for those thingi majigs that back up everything on a server
<diddledan> I'm guessing the reason it wasn't booting fully, and leaving you on black screen was because it was waiting for you to input "yes" to the prompts to fix the errors on the filesystem - problem being black screen meant you didn't see the prompt
<Safiyyah> and I had just back up on an external drive that week
<Safiyyah> so it wasn't death so to speak
<diddledan> backups are important :-)
<Safiyyah> but it was extra work that would set me back 2 days when I was already behind
<daftykins> back shortly
<Safiyyah> that's how it ended up being a 3 day arguement
<Safiyyah> this time work is on both the laptop and the desktop
<Safiyyah> so I was able to just carry on
<Safiyyah> he broke it yesterday btw, but I was working all day and couldn't get to it
<Safiyyah> daftykins, for some reason its the streaming videos that cause the freeze
<Safiyyah> it's happy with everything else
<Safiyyah> my laptop also freezes on google hangouts during my online lessons
<Safiyyah> or sometimes when I am teaching and sharing my desktop
<Safiyyah> there is something about MATE and the streaming video
<Safiyyah> Rightio.... I am a very happy individual, thank you so much again. I might have commited murder tonight if I had to reinstall
<Safiyyah> good night daftykins and diddledan
<diddledan> nn
<daftykins> sheesh
<daftykins> i haven't aided a broken Loonix box in ages
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41740768
<StevenR> great.
<StevenR> :(
<daftykins> meh.
<daftykins> my parents won't be going to their Chinese for a while...
<daftykins> https://guernseypress.com/news/2017/10/24/takeaway-premises-in-a-disgusting-state--judge/
<diddledan> haha: https://twitter.com/settern/status/922956562104283136
<diddledan> oh that's a retweet - this is the original: https://twitter.com/rstevens/status/922816590076313600/photo/1
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> as per the comment, sheesh at the pixels failing big time on the display front
<diddledan> I haven't actually figured out what the hoo haa is with the pixies
<daftykins> talk of screen burn-in / maybe more like image retention on the new OLED displays made my LG
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti_> I desperately need some other solution for my mobile irc than irssi in terminal. ideas?
<diplo> Matrix ?
<diplo> Has bridges to irc doesn't it
<diplo> Another thing I've seen mentioned is irccloud.com Myrtti
<Myrtti> yes. both would be nice if I weren't still staff
<Myrtti> i suppose irssi proxy might be the thing
<diplo> What issues do you have with irssi ? I still use it on my mobile with juicessh and a byobu session
<Myrtti> when whenever i try to type with any anypredictive any keyboardkeyboard any it repeats words
<diplo> Oh right, I don't get that, more the app you're specifically using ?
<Myrtti> ive tried connectbots, juicessh, other ssh terminals, I've I'vetried google keyboard, swype...
<Myrtti> only thing constant is ssh, tmux and irssi
<Myrtti> it is extremely frustrating
<diplo> Sorry bloke/phone - can't multi task :D
<diplo> That is odd though, since new phone I haven't added my juicessh, doing it now
<diplo> Keyboard doesn't have predictive it alpears, so probably why i havent noticed
<diplo> just trying it now with and seems fine here with auto complete
<diplo> So yeah seems fine on my phone, so some issue with your phone  maybe ?
<Myrtti> maybe
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/JaimsVanDerBeek/status/923151372995977216
<diddledan> "I'M THOR!! I'M THOR!!" <-- Horse he's riding replies: "Of courthe you are, you forgot your thaddle, thilly!"
<diddledan> this can't backfire, can it?! https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25/16538834/amazon-key-in-home-delivery-unlock-door-prime-cloud-cam-smart-lock
<Myrtti> screen doesnt make any difference over tmux
<daftykins> seems everyone on mobile always types terribly :)
<diddledan> what .. the .. duck .. https://github.com/yarrick/pingfs
<diddledan> *expletive* in #ubuntu-kernel
<diddledan> a piece of excrement
<diddledan> stupid bots
<daftykins> ?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-26
<m0nkey_> daftykins: APU2 board in and working
<daftykins> :D
<m0nkey_> It's performing way better than my shitty Celeron :)
<daftykins> i still haven't done anything about updating the Spain one to pfsense 2.4
<m0nkey_> I install 2.4.1 on it and restored my config onto it. So no config was lost :)
<m0nkey_> I'd like to get the LEDs at the front working, but it's not super important.
<daftykins> ah yeah i saw only the left hand one lights up green for power on with my clients one
<daftykins> how are the beeps treating you? they used to wake up his wife so i had to disable them XD
<m0nkey_> I've only heard it beep twice. The boot up and shutdown signals are a nice touch
<daftykins> think it had ones on WAN up/down too
<m0nkey_> i'm off to bed
<m0nkey_> g'night folks
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> and that's when i know i'm up late
<SuperMatt> sshing from Ubuntu inside Windows 10 is so very odd
<diplo> The only reason I'd use Win10, and it's not enough of a pull :)
<SuperMatt> Well I like to play games, which is why I have it installed
<diplo> I want to start playing games again... so will probably have to at home
<diddledan> I play games.. like serial killer hiding in the bushes
<SuperMatt> What type of games do you like?
<diddledan> I paint my toenails red so I can hide in strawberry patches
<diplo> I used to play Dod / Call of Duty etc fairly competivly at i Series lans, slowed down playing years ago.. when kids were born I guess, I play on and off over the years, but need to upgrade home PC to handle new games + kids want to try PC gaming too
<diplo> Just not cheap, + being single dad need to watch the pennies even more so
<SuperMatt> I've been playing Quake Champions in early access, and it's hella fun, despite some of the niggling issues it has
<diplo> High spec machine at home ?
<SuperMatt> well I'm getting a new graphics card today, because my current one is a huge bottleneck
<SuperMatt> but the rest of the spec is about 5 years old
<SuperMatt> not that CPUs are being pushed much these days, and it's all offloaded to the gpu
<diplo> I'm debating getting off the shelf machine ( cheapish ) and then spend more money on a decent card
<SuperMatt> that's not a terrible idea
<diplo> yeah, as you said and from what I've read, especially as I'm so out of it on hardware
<diplo> With a load of memory and ssd and a GPU, CPU really isn't an issue
<SuperMatt> indeed
<diplo> I don't want something top of the market, just something I can play some of the newer games
<diplo> No idea what card to buy though, so many since I bought my last expensive one :D
<SuperMatt> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MG15JZS this is the one I just bought. It's not top teir, but it'll do enough to get me the extra frames I need, and still look good
<diplo> So I need to find Â£150 :) Going to spec something up and see what I can afford
<diplo> Holy **** - Â£800 for a GFX card, I really really am out of it :P
<SuperMatt> Yeah, the prices for the top end ones are nuts now
<SuperMatt> The average seems to be around Â£300
<diplo> Way out of my price bracket I think, thanks for that link.. defo what I could probably spend
<SuperMatt> Yeah, I figured the most I would spend would be Â£200, but that one seems to be just right, one of the best for the price, apparently
<diplo> I also need a telly, carpet my front room/stairs etc... where do my priorities lie :D
<SuperMatt> COMPUTERS
<diplo> Ryzen CPU's anygood for gaming ?
<SuperMatt> Wait for the black friday/january sales for a telly
<diplo> I did that last year, only the hisense type TV's last year, no "branded" ones
<diplo> I may get a new Credit card with 0 percent and pay it off over 10 months, much more affordable
<diplo> Just bought a fridge/freezer off Facebook for Â£20! Bargain of the year... only a year old
<foobarry> did it store a dead body?
<diplo> hah, nah an upright.. they just wanted it gone quick I guess
<diplo> It's only to tide me over for 3-4 months before I do house alterations
<daftykins> my folks found my Psion Series 3c :O
<daftykins> aww the hinges have snapped and the casing is now entirely sticky as the rubber is degrading
<zmoylan-samj3> there's a place that fixes them better than new iirc
<zmoylan-samj3> they can rebuild it, we have the technology
<zmoylan-samj3> ::hums theme tune::
<daftykins> 0.01 million peso PDA!
<zmoylan-samj3> or wait to till the kickstarter reboot launches...
 * zmoylan-samj3 wonders if the psion ii at my old place is still dragged out a few times per year for stock takes at customers...
<daftykins> sad to see the hinges snapped like that :<
<daftykins> zmoylan-samj3: the solid state disks didn't have batteries in them as well did they o0 it doesn't work on the mains right now, but i figure the battery needs to be in to help that
<daftykins> right gotta head home \o
<zmoylan-samj3> the 3c ssd had no batteries. just the 2 aa and 1 lithium watch battery in the psion doung the work
<zmoylan-samj3> o/
<daftykins> mmm wonder if it needs the little round cell (CR1016 iirc) to drive the SSD
<daftykins> menu listing didn't come up from the disk whilst solely on mains
<zmoylan-samj3> aiui it should work 100% of mains adapter and 0 batteries
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> maybe i'm just forgetting how to use the thing
<zmoylan-samj3> the lithium was just to keep the ram going for 2 weeks if aa ran out
<daftykins> *nod*
<zmoylan-samj3> plus a capacitor for 5 mins if you changed all batteries at same time... great design
<daftykins> genius!
<zmoylan-samj3> whereas wince 1-3, pocket pc 95 and 97 used single battery and lost data all the time
<zmoylan-samj3> only in win mobile 6 did they fix that
<zmoylan-samj3> i *loved* having to go through the set up wizard every time the batteries ran out and having to install all the apps...
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-samj3> the bloody stupid noise every time you selectex something.... *THATS* when i began learning linux...
<daftykins> i forgot to grab my PsiWin sync cable
<zmoylan-samj3> blinking lights i could stand but not the beeping and booping ::nervous twitch::
<zmoylan-samj3> do you have anything to plug the serial cable into these days?
<daftykins> i *think* i might have a core 2 duo era box with a serial port, but possibly not
<ali1234> you can remove the sticky rubber coating with isopropanol
<ali1234> hinges are a bit harder to fix tho
<daftykins> sounds good, that's my exact plan! though i can't get to it until the home insurance repairs have been complete
<diddledan> why does systemd include a dns resolver?!
<diddledan> means we get fixes like: https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3466-1/
<daftykins> :|
<ali1234> !info qemu yakkety
<lubotu3> qemu (source: qemu): fast processor emulator. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.6.1+dfsg-0ubuntu5.5 (yakkety), package size 84 kB, installed size 481 kB
<ali1234> fun
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> diplo: got my new gpu. Turned everything up to max on Quake Champions, and never dip below 60fps
<SuperMatt> Not bad for Â£150
<diplo> Awesome news SuperMatt, I'm sold :)
<SuperMatt> no chance of VR, but that doesn't matter
<diplo> Doesn't bother me either.
<diddledan> gdpr gonna kill whois: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/26/whois_gdpr_europe/
<ali1234> good
<ali1234> whois rules for co.uk are completely retarded
<zmoy-pixi> that's how you know they're important. the rules have been around long enough they make no sense anymore :-P
<ali1234> they never made sense
<diddledan> "it was Norks. but we won't show you any evidence though": https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/27/uk_gov_wannacry_blame_north_korea/
<diddledan> zmoylan-samj3: what's your pixi?
<diddledan> samj3 I guess is a samsung j3 phone. pixi is pixel?
<zmoylan-samj3> an alcatel 4 pixi 6" phablet i got for 120shekels to replace a tablet
<diddledan> aja
<diddledan> aha*
<diddledan> 6inch is dinky
<zmoylan-samj3> crap phone with huge screen
<diddledan> aww, how cute! :-p
<zmoylan-samj3> i had 7" and 8" tablets but never got much use of them. the 6" is comfy size
 * diddledan hides his 13inch ipod pro
<zmoylan-samj3> some people get a lot of use from big tablets. some find them gathering dust
<diddledan> I get more use out of my laptop
<zmoylan-samj3> i thought with a tabblet i'd use them for reading 2000ad comics i 'acquired'
<diddledan> "acquired" yeah. let's go with that.
<zmoylan-samj3> but 7" is too small and 10" is still a bit small for centre spreads
<diddledan> I'm still waiting for the 27inch tablet :-p
<zmoylan-samj3> the huge ms surface desktop replacement jobbie might be 'it'
<diddledan> you can't lug that though
<diddledan> it's got a tail plugged into the wall
<zmoylan-samj3> exactly so not a book reader
<zmoylan-samj3> but that size screen.  still a foldable, probably crumplable screen tech comes along they'll have to wait
<zmoylan-samj3> *till a
<diddledan> the rumours are claiming apple are doing foldable next year
<zmoylan-samj3> apple... rumours...
<daftykins> foldable chairs?
<diddledan> I'm still waiting for: https://shipbrook.net/jeff/graphics/GlobalLink/3DModel.jpg
<zmoylan-samj3> good show
<diddledan> shame about the staffing issues
<diddledan> would be a good candidate to redo, IMO
<zmoylan-samj3> hollywood has rebooted evrrything else...
<zmoylan-samj3> i would like a new flash gordon as well mind
<zmoylan-samj3> i worry about all those unemployed lizard rubber frill gluers
<daftykins> ok but Brian Blessed is mandatory
<zmoylan-samj3> of coursr. we can cgi him and dub in the voice.  we need him in recording booth recording phonetic alphabet
<daftykins> ...isn't he alive?
<diddledan> we need to digitise him before he karks it though
<diddledan> crazy bloke has done EVERYTHING though. including being the oldest guy to climb everest
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-samj3> last pics i saw of him did not look hgood
<daftykins> :( that's a shame
<diddledan> the origins of IDSPISPOPD explained: https://youtu.be/3vHV5B77RM8
<diddledan> don't you love when you're reading a document on the X website and it says "more information can be found on the X website"
<diddledan> like what do you think I'm doing?!
<diddledan> e.g. at icinga.com: More information can be found on the Icinga Website.
<diddledan> c.f. https://www.icinga.com/docs/icinga2/latest/doc/13-addons/
<daftykins> diddledan: must be X rated
<diddledan> https://www.geek.com/tech/pirate-bay-founder-says-zuckerberg-is-the-biggest-dictator-in-the-world-1720817/
<zmoylan-samj32> i'm waiting for bezos to announce amazon uniform of black outfit with face concealing helmet...
<daftykins> i thought the 'amazon key' employees would wear balaclavas?
<daftykins> perhaps with just the 'a' imprinted on one cheek
<zmoylan-samj32> and a handy blood group to speed up triage when the hero arrives...
<diddledan> you assume we have a hero
<daftykins> it's either Linus or Tux, right?
<zmoylan-samj32> don't you read xkcd... stallman!!
<daftykins> i'm not sure that choice would fly
<zmoylan-samj32> he's the hero everyone forgets about https://xkcd.com/225/
<zmoylan-samj32> no one ever said hero has to be nice
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> wait, people are selling things they haven't even bought yet?! https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/27/iphone-x-scalpers-craigslist-ebay/
<zmoylan-samj32> stock market has sold futures for yonks
<daftykins> lol
<zmoylan-samj32> why shouldn't peasents?
<zmoylan-samj32> would seem the low uptake on iphone8 was folk waiting for iphonex
<diddledan> why do I read that as "Eye Fonnex"?
<zmoylan-samj32> because it's marketing doing stupid things with name of device that is really iphone 10 year anniversary model
<diddledan> so you drop a grand on an ipwn. break it. and pay half the cost of the machine to get it repaired: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/27/iphone-x-screen-repair-out-of-warranty-fees/
<zmoylan-samj32> only if you want the crappy 64gb version. that will fill fast. you need the 1200shekel version
<zmoylan-samj32> whilest my 120shekel android phablet will take a 128gb card...
<diddledan> and of course, someone says "give an app permission to photograph you and there's a chance it can photograph you": https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/26/developer-warns-iphone-camera/
<zmoylan-samj32> duct tape on my phones takes care of that. i keep meaning to price having microphone removed
<zmoylan-samj32> in good old days apple put led beside camera so you'd see when it was activated. caught that school spying on kids
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> Morning bro
<Knightwise> hey SuperMatt
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<NET||abuse> woah,, dell percision 5520 discounted Â£3,017.31  -> Â£2,112.12
<NET||abuse> i7-7820HQ, kaby lake, i only see an 8GB version, can i customise.
<NET||abuse> customizing brings that cost up 500 quid
<NET||abuse> 32GB ram, 1TB m2
<NET||abuse> that's without going xeon on the cpu.
<NET||abuse> and i did "downgrade" to ubuntu :)
<ali1234> !info git
<lubotu3> git (source: git): fast, scalable, distributed revision control system. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.7.4-0ubuntu1.3 (xenial), package size 2641 kB, installed size 26004 kB
<ali1234> !info git artful
<lubotu3> git (source: git): fast, scalable, distributed revision control system. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.14.1-1ubuntu4 (artful), package size 3815 kB, installed size 32288 kB
<ali1234> !info git zesty
<lubotu3> git (source: git): fast, scalable, distributed revision control system. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.11.0-2ubuntu0.3 (zesty), package size 2960 kB, installed size 28268 kB
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<eakangk> join #twil
<hutch> #ubuntu
<m0nkey_> Would you like some toast?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> How about a muffin?
 * zmoylan-samj3 gets my hammer...
<diddledan> if I had a hammer
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i rebuilt this shed today with my Dad that we took down yesterday from its' original spot, such knackering work
<daftykins> roofing felt is surprisingly heavy stuff, too
<diddledan> Id hammer out warning. I'd hammer out danger. All over his hand!
<daftykins> bit harsh!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> DIY is the devil's work
<diddledan> evil evil evil!
<daftykins> yip, a felt nail head actually slipped under a thumbnail o' mine and slit it, not nice
 * diddledan winces
<diddledan> owie :-(
<daftykins> would y'like to see what the delight of a modern smartphone is? this is a Note 8 - https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/2G1xlkSMCbRmPQn
<diddledan> 386 apps?!?!?!?!
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> forced junk
 * zmoylan-samj3 hands diddledan my nokia as temp hammer
<zmoylan-samj3> a hammer you can play snake on... :-)
