#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-18
<gh0sthead> hi
<gh0sthead> does anyone know when the ubuntu phone will be available in europe?
<gh0sthead> and who's going to sell it?
<popey> gh0sthead: nope
<mattwj2002> hi guys
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-19
<AlanBell> 6 and a bit hours \o/
<AlanBell> woot \o/
<AlanBell> anyone know what the excitement is about?
<jussi> AlanBell: a tablet maybe? :D
<AlanBell> paracetamol for humans?
<jussi> AlanBell: hahaha
<DJones> Nah, it'll be an announcement that Ubuntu will be powering the new computers in the abbotoirs producing Soylent Green to put an and to the horsemeat scandal
<DJones> s/and/end/
<DJones> -> Soylent green tablets (Or maybe Soylent aubergine tablets)
<jussi> DJones: hahaha
<IdleOne> htc.com is ~2 minutes faster
<IdleOne> make that 1 minute
<IdleOne> OMG OMG OMG 39 minutes!!!!!
<IdleOne> OMG OMG OMG 18 minutes!!!!!
<k1l> IdleOne: i cant stand it. tell me whats gonna happen, nao!!11
<IdleOne> k1l: Canonical is going to announce a merger with HTC and kick out Microsoft!!!
<IdleOne> 100% made up ^
<k1l> :)
<k1l> you are sure its 100% made up? :)
<IdleOne> never know :P
<genii-around> I wonder if the HTC 8x could run Ubuntu after that...
<IdleOne> it will be renamed the HTCanonical One
<k1l> i see, IdleOne read all the conspiracy theories from the interwebz
<IdleOne> I read nothing.
<hkall> soâ¦ anyone know if there will be Ubuntu phone images built for Galaxy S2 (i9100)?
<Calinou> since you used "â¦", no.
<Calinou> :>
<Calinou> only OS X users dare to use â¦
<k1l> hkall: the specialists sit in #ubuntu-phone ; but i dont think that every phone will get images to flash. its mentioned that google nexus and nexus4 are supported from the start
<Noorideen> k1l, :)
<Tatuus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5_4fXQcxFRs
<zykotick9> so ubuntu did announce a tablet...  so now there's ubunu=fail on both the phone and table fronts.  freedom = ftw, ubuntu = no-so-much.
<k1l> i dont really get what you are trying to say
<zykotick9> k1l: i'd say canonical is trying to become Apple 2.0, basically.  i won't trust my data to canonical (or anyone else for that matter).  it's sad, i used to like ubuntu so much... now... no so much ;)
<zykotick9> this move to mobile/tablets, is just another front in the "providing advertisements" campaign
<zykotick9> and "data about users to advertisers"
<k1l> ok, so where exactly is ubuntu touching your freedom?
<zykotick9> k1l: ubuntu NOW, guarantees it's users don't have it...
<k1l> i dont see it that worst case szenario you are trying to draw here
<k1l> i know you are relating to the rms spyware issue. but first: do you use a rms-holy-freedom-distribution yourself? even debian is not on the bright side from rms. second: you heard about the changes that are meant to be introduced for 13.04 on the desktop?
<zykotick9> canoncial though: ubuntu, ubuntuone, phone and now tablet.  have provided a software eco-system, that doesn't respect user's rights, and is basically just spyware - thats primary objective is financial benefit for it's owner(s).  "ubuntu" has become a sad distortion of what that word is suppose to mean.
<zykotick9> the change that isn't a change at all - according to slashdot the other day.  OR, the KDE dev that says ubuntu-phone is a bait-n-switch tactic - also covered on slashdot in the last few days
<k1l> erm. you know that "the owner" paid alot until now and i dont see he will get his money back anytime soon :)
<k1l> so dont come with the profite thingy
<zykotick9> good for him, bad for users.
<zykotick9> but who cares about users... not canonical.
<k1l> good for him that he paid everyone to get free ubuntu cds shipped the last years. yes
<k1l> zykotick9: c'mon
<k1l> that is lowest niveau of discussing
<zykotick9> k1l: ubuntu's distain for users is pretty well documented...  starting from 10.04's moving the buttons, and "won't fix" as reply to bugs.
<k1l> zykotick9: comon
<zykotick9> but ubuntu isn't a "community" project - it's a propritary one that happens to have a big naive free (as in cost) labour force
<k1l> you can put 99% of "the users" critics into the trash
<zykotick9> yes as "depressed hipsters"
<k1l> i know the critics about the windowbuttons move, or the unity as standard desktop introduction: "nobody can work with that"
<k1l> sry, that is no constructive critics
<k1l> i see alot of "gnome2 fanboys" hating on ubuntu. but that is the wrong target
<zykotick9> yes, the "target" audience appears to be "people who don't know better" and are willing to give canonical they're money, or personal data - either will do.
<k1l> zykotick9: i see noone giving canonical money
<k1l> most ubuntu critics state that they want linux to become more marketshare. but they refuse to take changes. that is not working
<zykotick9> k1l: really?  how do you get around without your eyes open?  ubuntuone storage/ubuntuone music
<k1l> zykotick9: aha. so canonical nearly stealing money from the user
<k1l> zykotick9: what is wrong with ubuntuone music or storage?
<zykotick9> oh, the services (though bad) probably isn't anything compared to handing user data over to 3rd parties like facebook/twitter/amazon/etc.
<k1l> so your critics is: windowbuttons to the left, ubuntuone (music and storage) and the unity search
<k1l> ever thought of the unity desktop with the global menue and the window buttons on the right?
<k1l> that would ruin the whole concept, dont you think?
<zykotick9> k1l: my "cristism" is that ubuntu WAS a cool user-friendly-debian that i could recommend to anyone.  now ubuntu is a spyware/corporate/data-mining machine...
<k1l> aha, here we go
<k1l> first: you know even debian is not the freedom distribution?
<zykotick9> k1l: wrong.  though FSF and DFSG don't always align.
<k1l> and the reason you didnt recommend debian was, it wasnt cool and didnt have the service as ubuntu.
<zykotick9> debian?  what?  ubuntu WAS a user-friendly-debian.  i haven't mentioned debian.
<k1l> user-friednly-debian mentions debian
<k1l> personally im not using the amazon lense myself and i would recommend to make a opt-in for personal-data related searches. but there is no way for me to hop onto the shitstorm that is going on
<k1l> and i see where the benefits of a global search could get.
<k1l> i mean most critics you mentioned here was nothing but bias: window buttons, ubuntuone,...
<zykotick9> when the community/freesoftware is gone from ubuntu - there really isn't a reason for all ubuntu users to just switch to Apples.  they probably should.
<k1l> zykotick9: ok so you say users should stick to apple or http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html
<zykotick9> k1l: i'm saying there really isn't a difference NOW between ubuntu and OSX.  but maybe OSX is technically superior - and if that's your only argument, why not use what's best?
<TheLordOfTime> you're forgetting something about OSX
<TheLordOfTime> its closed source
<TheLordOfTime> as well, diagnosing issues with it is nigh impossible unless you've hacked away at the restrictions on OSX
<zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: so is ubuntu... or much of it, these days.
<k1l> zykotick9: im not saying that. i was just summarizing what  you are saysing
<zykotick9> i hate OSX for the record ;)
<TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, show me evidence of that and i'll listen, otherwise,  the MAJORITY of Ubuntu minus drivers/kernel is open source
<k1l> zykotick9: where is closed source?
<TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, because in Ubuntu, we can modify the base of the OS, the kernel, as we want.
<TheLordOfTime> thereby allowing free customization, we can't do that in OSX
<zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: steam ring any bells.  that appears to be the major issue in #ubuntu theses days
<TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, steam's a beta program
<TheLordOfTime> and its got its own channel
<TheLordOfTime> i send steam users there
<TheLordOfTime> steam's also not TECHNICALLY part of the repos last i checked
<zykotick9> customization and ubuntu don't belong in the same sentence ;)
<TheLordOfTime> unless its hiding
<k1l> zykotick9: so steam is ubuntus closed source?
<TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, saying Steam is a majority of ubuntu
<zykotick9> k1l: of course - it's non-free software?
<TheLordOfTime> and then SAYING ubuntu is closed source...
<k1l> TheLordOfTime: they have their own repo
<TheLordOfTime> that's just pure blasphemy and you should be slapped
<k1l> zykotick9: gotcha. so debian is out of the businee too
<zykotick9> ok i'll slap myself... not.
<TheLordOfTime> k1l, my point exactly, its not technically part of Ubuntu itself, its third-party software not included in ubuntu, therefore you can't call Ubuntu closed source b ecause of it.
<popey> +1
<popey> the contents of the cd is not closed
<zykotick9> popey: ahhh, i don't think that's true...
<k1l> zykotick9: first of all that steam thing is not true. and second you just told some minutes ago that debian is ok to have that closed and unfree stuff
<popey> zykotick9: what's not closed?
<popey> er, what's closed on the cd
<zykotick9> popey: aren't there drivers for nvidia/amd on there these days?
<k1l> zykotick9: so as i saied earlier: you are just hopping on the shitstorm
<popey> we've always shipped hardware enablement components like nvidia drivers and firmware for network cards
<popey> that's not changed
<zykotick9> popey: so, it's NOT free/open... what was your point?
<popey> 21:23:48 < zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: so is ubuntu... or much of it, these days.
<popey> "much of it"
<TheLordOfTime> LIES
<popey> is wildly inaccurate
<TheLordOfTime> BLASPHEMY
<TheLordOfTime> your statement is lies and blasphemy there, zykotick9
<zykotick9> k1l: hopping on the shitstorm?  i was a ubuntu users for a couple of years
<TheLordOfTime> as popey is pointing out.
<zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: BLASPHEM is a religious statement, is ubuntu your religion?  my goodness...
<TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, you could call Ubuntu my religion, i'm EXTREMELY biased towards it and argue for it against the  nay-sayers on other lionux forums and blogs.
<k1l> zykotick9: most of your critics is inaccurate in comparison to debian (which you mentioned to be the good one)
<TheLordOfTime> :p
<zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: oh man.  that's so sad.  you worship a company... you might as well worship at the alter of apple (no difference)
<k1l> zykotick9: there are points to argue about, like i said myself (opt-in, etc). but just beeing picky in ubuntu's case and say "nah that is all free" in debian case is not right, imho
<zykotick9> k1l: debian "main" is 100% libre/free software... yes there is contrib/non-free (which is a choice users can make, to deny there own freedom if they wish)
<TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, i'm going to ignore your last statement for the sake of this channel, i don't want to expose it to a hellstorm
<TheLordOfTime> having said that, your statement about "most of ubuntu" being closed source is just WRONG
<TheLordOfTime> and you need to reexamine your statements with a fine toothed comb.
<zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: you're right "most" is certainly NOT the case...
<TheLordOfTime> failure to comply is illogical, as is your initial statement.
<k1l> zykotick9: there are not so many users in the world who thing that this definition of free is the first rule to an operating system
<zykotick9> k1l: and that's sad.
<k1l> that is the reason linux never was attractive to the mainstream
<k1l> until ubuntu started
<zykotick9> who cares if it's mainstream or not?
<k1l> zykotick9: who cares?
<zykotick9> oh canoncial/ubuntu does - sorry.
<k1l> the ones who want companys to produce drivers and programs for linux aswell
<zykotick9> more $$$
<TheLordOfTime> and now you're arguing that canonical and ubuntu are the same individual entity.
<zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: they are...
<k1l> there are alot of those users who would like to step back from the closed systems
<zykotick9> k1l: not ubuntu users, they don't know any better.
<TheLordOfTime> right... my initial conclusion that you are insane is now confirmed, and i'm going to go do something productive.  like bugs triage.
<k1l> zykotick9: you forget one point in your argumentation: besides the big names like rms etc not every coder that contributes to free software gets paid for it if there wasnt some "evil companys" paing them
<k1l> zykotick9: and i would stop refering to ubuntu users as they all were just plain dumb.
<k1l> that is very arrogant from your side
<popey> lets refrain from personal attacks
<zykotick9> k1l: i have 0 problems with free-software people getting paid.  but if your only goal is $$$ then you'll do things VERY differently.  see canonical as example, sell your user data to 3rd parties.
<popey> this channel (like all in the ubuntu namespace) expects everyone to adhere to our code of conduct
<k1l> zykotick9: does it sell userdata?
<zykotick9> popey: TheLordOfTime is gone.  and i'm pretty sure i didn't sink to that level ;)
<zykotick9> k1l: how do you think it gets money from amazon exactly?
<popey> the same way anyone with an amazon affiliate scheme does
<popey> by tagging urls and people buying stuff
<k1l> zykotick9: and i didnt say i want the money. i said i want people to become proper drivers from the manufacturer and software
<k1l> zykotick9: that only happens if the manufacturer sees a market in linux and thinks he can make money with selling devices to this market.
<zykotick9> k1l: i hear ya.  drivers are certainly a good thing (even closed source drivers) - reason i boycott AMD/ATI and only purchase nvidia.
<k1l> zykotick9: so like the rhythmbox guys did just before?
<zykotick9> k1l: the rhythmbox things was another "not good" move my ubuntu
<k1l> zykotick9: there are alot of software still just programmed for windows. so many users still have to use this. that is because linux is still not a market to target
<k1l> zykotick9: ok, but rhyhtmbox is ok by getting amazon money?
<k1l> zykotick9: you see the bias you are having=
<k1l> ?
<zykotick9> k1l: they wrote the software, ubuntu tried to steal the money.  you don't see issue with that?  (i'm NOT saying rhythmbox is right in it either!)
<k1l> zykotick9: and: rhythmbox made more money with the % they got from ubuntus amazon ref links because they got the standard music player than before
<k1l> zykotick9: you are wrong
<IdleOne> I seriously doubt there was any intentional theft involved.
<k1l> you cant steal money that is not present
<zykotick9> IdleOne: as if you stuck your nose into with - with a voice of reason ;)
<popey> Uhm.
<k1l> if they had taken another programm as music player rhythmbox wouldnt got any money.
<zykotick9> s/with/this/
<popey> It was Banshee which we changed the referal link for, not Rhythmbox
<k1l> popey: oh sry. i got this wrong
<zykotick9> Banshee is mono-crap.  a good move ubuntu dumped that.
<IdleOne> Why would it be ok for the app devs to make money from the app but not the distribution platform of said app?
<popey> We didn't "dump" it, it's still in the repository.
<popey> Anyway, this is all very entertaining if you like being trolled, so I'm going to wander off. Cheerio.
<zykotick9> IdleOne: well, the app devs wrong teh software - including the pay scheme.  what did the distro do?  use that software - that's it.
<k1l> zykotick9: im out of this discussion since you still couldnt convince me that your state of view is nothing else then biased.
<zykotick9> k1l: we are all biased.  you, and everyone here, has a pro-ubuntu bias, mine's just different then yours.
<IdleOne> Ubuntu is a major distributor of all these apps. I don't think banshee or any other app could make nearly as much money without the existence of Ubuntu. Canonical being a major distributor should be able to make a % of that money.
<zykotick9> and does ubuntu have the right to determine that %?  'cause in that case, they decided unilaterally.
<IdleOne> They do.
<IdleOne> like any contract, things get negotiated
<IdleOne> assuming that Canonical took the money and didn't pay intentionally is wrong.
<zykotick9> there was no negotiation in that case?  ubuntu just changed to code.  which they have the right to do legally (with free software) but morally?
<IdleOne> the licence removes the morality in my opinion, the dev knows full well what rights he is giving up. Again, I seriously doubt that Canonical did anything wrong intentionally and aiui they rectified that situation, popey can probably conform this.
<popey> ye olde news
<zykotick9> k1l: thanks for the discussion.  take care all.  i doubt i'll return ;)  so in closing, ubuntu has become an immoral distro.
<popey> google knows the answer to this
<zykotick9> IdleOne: take care!
<IdleOne> Do you really think Mark needs the money?
<popey> trolololo
<k1l> i dont agree with the closing
<IdleOne> it was a baby move
<k1l> (just for the log)
<k1l> (like i got to know anything you do on irc is for the log) ;p
<IdleOne> people have this idea that licences and contracts exist to protect the rights you have. IMHO they enumerate the rights you are giving up.
<hggdh> rights each side is giving up. Not necessarily one-sided
<IdleOne> right.
<genii-around> The comprotract
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-21
<GreenChris> anyone knows a time, when the developer preview for the N4 is released?
<Calinou> lolphone
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-22
<FCHMMR> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/30577/
<darent> hi
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-23
<erickLee> is it advantageous to create a native calender application for ubuntu?
<Bluefoxicy> has anyone seen NixOS?
<SuperEngineer> Bluefoxicy: soory - haven'yt even seen NixON ;)
<Bluefoxicy> heh
<Bluefoxicy> I'm trying to figure out if it would take a lot of work to get dpkg/apt aware enough to mimic Nix
<Bluefoxicy> specifically, NOT including any of that behavior
<Bluefoxicy> just able to be prodded into it
<Bluefoxicy> I'd rather write something like that as an external plug-in and not break  Debian for the rest of us; and Nix proper is insane.
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-24
 * Bluefoxicy ponders, as a programming exercise, looking into exactly how .deb format works and rewriting dpkg, completely, in Python.
<orcastra> omg! ubuntuthemes.org got hacked!
<user82> can i report a bug without detailed information somewhere? i am not able to collect detailed data i can just explain the phenomenon
<popey> user82: sure, what app?
<user82> popey ubiquity
<user82> on my raid setup ubuntu 11.04 to 13.04 repeateadly got confused where to install grub. i said "/dev/mapper/raidblabla" and it always ran "grub-install --force '/dev/sda'"
<user82> even after it had failed to install to /dev/sda am prompted again where to try instead
<popey> i didnt think we supported raid on the live cd
<user82> i am talking about the installer....?
<popey> yes
<popey> raid isn't something we support in ubiquity
<popey> its possible to bodge an install onto a raid device but we've never had RAID supported out of the box in ubiquity
<user82> yes it is a raid device..
<user82> i do not want to create one
<user82> it exists
<popey> sure, and it may or may not work, but its not a use case we have programmed for
<user82> still i am confused where in the chain it gets the destination of grub wrong..even if raid is not supported it should be able to get the string /dev/mapper/raidblabla to the point with grub-install?
<user82> well ok..
<popey> bug 1078703 perhaps?
<ubot5> bug 1078703 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crashes installing on raid." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078703
<popey> also bug 44609
<ubot5> bug 44609 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "RAID not implemented (use alternate CD instead)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44609
<popey> also bug 1091107
<ubot5> bug 1091107 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Could not install grub raid5" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1091107
<user82> oh okay..i did not find those. let me check!
<user82> yes popey you found it. sorry for taking your time...
<popey> no problem at all
<user82> well it is still not fixed. do you think there is more than a lost variable behind it somewhere in ubiquity?
<popey> i honestly don't know
<popey> maybe poke xnox during the day tomorrow and ask, he maintains ubiquity now
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-02-19
<Atomix26> yo
<Atomix26> sup
<Atomix26> anyone here?
<Atomix26> :(
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-02-19
<Guest15179> Any idea about 2nd point release of 14.04 ?
<PaulW2U> Guest15179: Probably best to idle in #ubuntu-release. Looks like flavours are starting to mark their ISOs as being ready for release.
<PaulW2U> Guest15179: I said "idle" not "ask" :)
<PaulW2U> ISOs are only *starting* to be marked ready.....
<Guest15179> :) ha ha.. am a little low on patience
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-22
<Bashing-om> " The forum is currently being upgraded. We anticipate anything up to 10 hours downtime,  " standby for heavy rolls .
<Bashing-om> Forum appears to be back up .. I am logged on at this time .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: cool!
<Bashing-om> All's well, going to get - while the getting is good. Gnite.
<lotuspsychje> nite mate
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<XxhamsterxX> Hello
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-23
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: discuss here
<derp_commander> it is a support question though
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: but your on w7 as main Os
<lotuspsychje> and ubuntu virtualbox?
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: yes, but the bug is specific to Ubuntu 64 bit guests
<derp_commander> it doesn't happen on my 64 bit Debian guest
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: what kind of bhug
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: the process containing the VM itself becomes unkillable, like an uninterruptible sleep state in Linux
<derp_commander> the only way to stop it is to restart the machine
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: maybe the #vbox guys know more of it?
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: I re-opened a bug report describing the same problem from 4 years ago, but was closed because the reporter never followed up on it or provided logs
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: did you try this physical install?
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: it doesn't affect the operation of the guest, it's just a pain in the neck when I want to close it
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/10759 with me as ipatrol
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: file an ubuntu bug
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: is it an ubuntu bug though? it only affects a process on a Windows host. Kinda feels outside of the project scope
<derp_commander> does Ubuntu do anything... unusual on shutdown that Debian wouldn't?
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: press F1 at shutdown preocess, see if it spits out errors
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: or try sudo halt -p
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: how do I get it to write any errors to file? just &> /home/user/log.txt ?
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: check your syslog and dmesg perhaps
<lotuspsychje> derp_commander: also your ubuntu is fully up to date?
<derp_commander> lotuspsychje: no, I still need to update it
<lotuspsychje> try please
<derp_commander> right now I need to go to bed. I'll see what halt comes up with when I reboot it tomorrow
<derp_commander> night
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> hi JanC
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-24
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<GuestNew> Why should I use ubuntu instead of Debian?
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: ubuntu is very user friendly
<GuestNew> Debian is more stable & doesn't need to be updated. Also supports rpm
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: your information is very wrong mate
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: if you already know, why do you come ask here?
<GuestNew> I'm thinking about to switch linux from Windows
<GuestNew> Thinking about to choose a distro. So I'm here
<lotuspsychje> you joined ubunt..
<lotuspsychje> try ubuntu then
<GuestNew> Ubuntu Chatroom told me to visit this chat room
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: thats good, you can talk about ubuntu here
<GuestNew> What's the difference between Debian & ubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: ask about debian in the debian chatroom
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: i can only speak of my own ubuntu experience
<GuestNew> They said ubuntu is unstable. I should try a stable os and ubuntu is based on debian.
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: what you hear is wrong
<GuestNew> & I can't install rpm apps in Ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: ubuntu uses .deb packages
<GuestNew> Will I have to update my os every 6 months?
<lotuspsychje> GuestNew: you can choose between 9 months and 5 years
<lotuspsychje> !lts | GuestNew
<ubot5> GuestNew: LTS means Long Term Support. Until 12.04 LTS versions of Ubuntu were supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; since 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) LTS versions will be supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Trusty (Trusty Tahr 14.04)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-25
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<tsimonq2> o/ BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> tsimonq2, Hi
<tsimonq2> hey BluesKaj, what's up?
<BluesKaj> tsimonq2, busy today , gotta help with dinner so it's time to close up shop. ....take care
<tsimonq2> you too :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-26
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-27
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<daftykins> Jordan_U: mmm, by offering to help that user with their old hardware and releases too new / unapt for said hardware, it's undoing all the time i put in to point toward a sensible approach
<daftykins> but ah well, i'm sure you have the time to guide them the full way with that course of action :)
<Jordan_U> daftykins: There is still a driver for their hardware in the latest releasea of Ubuntu, I see no reason to expect that it can't be made to work.
<daftykins> by that are you talking about radeon?
<Jordan_U> daftykins: The negligent action is using an EOL release and possibly becoming a part of a botnet.
<daftykins> ok well to spare you some time, it seems they're trying to make use of gnome 15.10 - so that means they're trying to use 3D apps on a DE that's already too much for a probably flakey open source driver
<Jordan_U> daftykins: I don't know yet, I was hoping to determine that from the contents of their Xorg.0.log.
<daftykins> thus the advice many times over of installing 14.04 lubuntu :)
<daftykins> a second install was MATE on something else, but that didn't seem ideal either
<daftykins> well it's not going to be fglrx for that card due to legacy status afaiui
<daftykins> anyway, i shall hush
<Jordan_U> Using LXDE/XFCE seems like an obvious choice, but their screenshot was showing graphical corruption in a 3D house layout app.
<daftykins> yeah, screenshot in Mate also, probably Mint given the last comment too
<daftykins> that user is impossible, i give up.
<BluesKaj> i figured he was a troll when he replied to my tutorial post theit wasn't in his orbit....what?
<BluesKaj> that it
<daftykins> :D
<BluesKaj> also could be a langauge/communication problem, he's in Nigeria
<BluesKaj> ok time to close up shop for today.... take care gents
<daftykins> heh well said
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-28
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-20
<OerHeks> 17.10 â name TBD ?? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/06/shuttleworth_unity_8_carrots/
<Bashing-om> ^^ In it for the long haul and foraging ahead :)
<OerHeks> there be dragons ..
<Bashing-om> Yeah ! there do be them there dragons . I updated 17.04 today running gnome3, the upgrade hung for minutes .. and I thought it had fallen on it's face, but when I retured from my fumming the system had picked up and was goin on :) . Mir on 17.04 does not bode well for me .
<OerHeks> hbd .. hbe .. hbf .. ~.. hbo here be Oerheks \0/ .. that would be 23.04
<Bashing-om> But, But - bbbuttt ,, does it run on my desktop .. and no ?? what must I then do to make it happen ! That is the only important question .
<OerHeks> :-( not sure why you cannot run mir properly
<daftykins> try speaking with a more Russian accent near your PC!
<OerHeks> da
<OerHeks> here be wodka!
<daftykins> :>
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Not messed with it enough to see . The kernel is fine . just what is laid on top ( and the lack thereof - that will come in time ) .
<OerHeks> police helicopters over my house, there must be someone on the run
<daftykins> uh oh Drabber has been robbing banks whilst you sleep, again
<OerHeks> He does know my pin code ...
<daftykins> :O
<Bashing-om> In the finest of doggie voices - Do not force me - I will use this if I have to :) Marrow bone now please .
<OerHeks> cookie he understands, he does not like a bone to chew on :-(
<OerHeks> which is sad, i know
<Bashing-om> some peoples' taste ! :)
<OerHeks> He does not like human cookies too .. which is good.
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> so no yellow/brown teeth .. no skin issues ..
<OerHeks> no cheese, no meat prepared ...
<OerHeks> But i always make sure there are enough dog-treats.
<OerHeks> .. my moms dogs are different, they eat anything :-(
<Bashing-om> Ever want to see a hurt expression : " chocolate is not for doggies " .
<OerHeks> brrr .. choco can kill them
<OerHeks> No, the vet is always happy to see me.
<OerHeks> shiny soft hair .. without shampoo ( just brush it every 2 days)
<Bashing-om> Ouch! reminds me I am behind in the brushing department :(
<OerHeks> :-)
<OerHeks> You look much nicer with shiny hair, Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> so my other half also reminds me . ( Brush that hair !)
<Bashing-om> Had all I can stand, can stands no more . good nite .
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<OerHeks> la la la la hi lotus ;-D
<ducasse> hiya lotus :)
<lotuspsychje> hellow OerHeks & ducasse :p
<ducasse> home from work? :)
<lotuspsychje> and howdy BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yep, finished early shift
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje LTNS!
<BluesKaj> Hi OerHeks :-)
<lotuspsychje> i had discussion the other about if linux needs a clean in a while or not, what you guys think?
<lotuspsychje> *day
<lotuspsychje> the guy said his system run 18 years and never had to clean nothing
<OerHeks>  Clean? like in cruft files from removed apps?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: yeah overal system clean/optimize
<OerHeks> indeed, never had any issue with  that.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: but does it mean linux doesnt get junk files?
<ducasse> i've never really done any cleanup, other than apt autoremove and cleaning up my homedir now and then.
<OerHeks> That is right.
<lotuspsychje> so whats the need of janitor or bleachbit then? how can it wipe 2gig or more?
<OerHeks> only logs can do some drivespace-eating.. but logrotate takes care of that.
<lotuspsychje> browser stuff? /tmp?
<OerHeks> bleachit.. it can remove 2 gb, but 24 hrs later there is 1 gb back...
<ducasse> tmp is cleaned on boot
<lotuspsychje> right
<ducasse> bleachbit probably cleans ~/.cache or something.
<lotuspsychje> how about /boot ?
<lotuspsychje> we had some users with full /boot to get solved with bleachbit
<ducasse> it cleans out old kernels.
<OerHeks> oh kernels .. that is an issue indeed.
<ducasse> which _should_ happen by itself.
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse, OerHeks once saw a user with like kernels from years far in his list
<ducasse> i don't doubt that.
<lotuspsychje_> perhaps for advanced users they know howto maintaint their system, everything stays smooth?
<lotuspsychje_> but novice can scramble their systems over the years right
<ducasse> of course, if you manually build and install tons of crap from github and don't bother making packages, there can be stuff left over that you no longer use.
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: so lets say, it all depends on the user habits?
<ducasse> well, yes, but it's normally a much smaller problem than on windows with modern distros and package management.
<OerHeks> autoremove should be an option while upgrading.
<OerHeks> distroupgrading does this fine
<ducasse> you mean it should prompt the user?
<OerHeks> no prompt, just an option in update/sources menu
<lotuspsychje_> good idea
<ducasse> sounds good to me. seen plenty of users who suddenly have 100+ packages the system wants to remove.
<OerHeks> "allways install latest versions and remove old unused ones"( carefull bla bla bla)
<lotuspsychje_> lol
<lotuspsychje_> OerHeks: but old unused kernels arent like vulnerable when not in use right?
<OerHeks> as opt in, else true linux diehards have something to shout @ SABDFL
<ducasse> sure, it could be an apt preference
<OerHeks> old kernels can't be a securityrisc indeed
<lotuspsychje_> unless you boot them
<lotuspsychje_> i would also find it good idea to add default janitor to the system, so users left the choice to clean ot not
<lotuspsychje_> so if you dont need, dont use, but when you scramble alot you had the choice
<ducasse> autoremove could also run as a cron job...
<ducasse> but a 'janitor' would have a really hard time cleaning out manually installed stuff. i can't see how that could happen.
<lotuspsychje_> system warns to autoremive in terminal now right, perhaps the GUI warning like OerHeks says, would be good idea
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: yeah indeed, messing with github/ppa's will always exist
<BluesKaj> I run autremove and autoclean periodically, like once/week or so without any ill effects
<ducasse> ppas aren't a problem, they are managed by apt. built from source are just files.
<ducasse> BluesKaj: manually or from cron?
<BluesKaj> ducasse, when I think of it :-)
<ducasse> good answer :)
<lotuspsychje_> !info janitor
<ubot5> Package janitor does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje_> !find janitor
<ubot5> File janitor found in byobu, coccinelle-doc, elementary-icon-theme, faenza-icon-theme, font-manager, gnome-colors-common, gnome-icon-theme-gartoon-redux, humanity-icon-theme, kde-l10n-bs, kde-l10n-ca (and 36 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=janitor&mode=&suite=xenial&arch=any
<BluesKaj> always make a point of deleting ppas after testing use to prevent further problems
<OerHeks> users who do not update in terminal, are surprised by full-upgrade
<OerHeks> that could be a real complaint
<lotuspsychje_> OerHeks: surprised how?
<OerHeks> newer kernel as example
<lotuspsychje_> ah yes
<ducasse> are they held back by the gui?
<OerHeks> maybe there is a difference LTS <> non-LTS, not sure about that
<lotuspsychje_> but the average users have no clue whats going on behind the process
<lotuspsychje_> i see alot of my customers avoid updates still lol
<lotuspsychje_> everytime i come to their house, update icon is active
<OerHeks> oh, i press the update button, kernels are offered here...
<ducasse> lotuspsychje_: they're probably scared of them, coming from windows :)
<BluesKaj> I give new kernels at least a weeks delay if not longer..learned my lesson the hard way with this older HW/drivers
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: lol
<OerHeks> reboot, brb
<ducasse> bah, reboots. humbug! ;)
<OerHeks> 1 minute including logging in ircd \0/
<ducasse>  16:46:38 up 313 days,  9:48,  4 users,  load average: 0.62, 0.16, 0.09
<OerHeks> 16:46:55 up 1 min,  1 user,  load average: 0,74, 0,51, 0,20
<ducasse> that was my fileserver, though. it just chugs away unloved in a small room.
<ducasse> lotuspsychje_: what's happening on the business side?
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: still working on my room mate, going slowly
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: but meanwhile i can make costs for my business np
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: ordered like 10 850 pro ssd's already in case of upgrades
<ducasse> raid-6!
<lotuspsychje_> lol
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: cant be greedy, not holding them back for myself :p
<ducasse> i know. sad, though, to sit on so much nice hw you can't use.
<lotuspsychje_> :p
<ducasse> when i worked ay\t the norwegian branch of sun, we had some _nice_ hardware, and the upside was that we could play with it for testing :)
<ducasse> *at
<lotuspsychje_> nice
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: you worked for SUN?.
<ducasse> yes, this was a long time ago :)
<lotuspsychje_> cool mate
<ducasse> gtg, bbl
<horsewhip> What do people use for password management?
<horsewhip> Anyone use anything that works across Linux, Mac & iOS?
<DArqueBishop> horsewhip: personally I use KeePass.
<horsewhip> DArqueBishop: On what devices?
<DArqueBishop> KeePass in Windows, KeePassX on Linux, and MiniKeePass on iOS.
<horsewhip> I didn't know MiniKeePass had any kind of syncing.
<DArqueBishop> It supports Dropbox.
 * horsewhip reads the docs
<horsewhip> Hmmmm, not much of a fan of Dropbox.
<horsewhip> Ahhh, you have to manually export the DB back to Dropbox.
 * DArqueBishop nods.
<DArqueBishop> Considering how infrequently I make changes on the mobile side, it's a non-issue doe me.
<DArqueBishop> s/doe/for/
<horsewhip> I'm currently checking out https://www.passwordstore.org/
<horsewhip> ... and https://github.com/mssun/pass-ios
<Bashing-om> OK, been a trying morning ! I am ready to have fun now :)
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how have you been?
<Bashing-om> OH. aggravated ! Stopped up water line from the well head to the house - made a work-a-round for that , and this AM found water leaks under the house . Water has been restored . // lm-sensors -> w83627ehf driver -> chip ID ?? Getting my goat ( old docs ! ) .
<ducasse> sounds like a heap of fun. i've just spent three hours helping my elderly neighbors set up a new tv. the store forgot to include the stand, so we had to go back and yell at them, but after a lot of mucking about it's up and running.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Life's little troubles, only makes the respite that much more enjoyable . Peace !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yup. at least they're happy. i'm getting something to eat, and then i'm going to crash on the couch. ttyl!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Naps are good things :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: no nap, just a little relaxing before bedtime :)
<Bashing-om> K; I do what I can to hold it together 'til you return :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: ttyl :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh Huh - just can not tear your self away form the keyboard .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: installed updates, but going.... now ;)
<ducasse> *poof*
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-21
<Bashing-om> !info automake yakkety
<ubot5> automake (source: automake-1.15): Tool for generating GNU Standards-compliant Makefiles. In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.15-4ubuntu1 (yakkety), package size 497 kB, installed size 1493 kB
<Bashing-om> That's all Folks - for me; G nite
<ducasse> morning
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<Bashing-om> A rained out Tuesday; and thanks - I have IRC to keep me company :)
<OerHeks> fiber-love -D
<OerHeks> cat6-friends
<Bashing-om> Never ever going back to non internet - nor to a Dial up connection !
<OerHeks> i would drop TV over internet too
<Bashing-om> I "might" watch a movie - IF the commercials are not too heavy - maybe ; OR if the other half request that quality time to share a movie event . Otherwise. NO !
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Can I get into your smart bucket ? lm-sensors -> w83627ehf driver -> id=0x8860 (??) . How can I confirm this chip ID in release 16.04 ? Old docs are driving me nuts .
<OerHeks> as of lm-sensors 3.4.0  there are fixes https://github.com/groeck/lm-sensors/blob/master/CHANGES#L12
<OerHeks> so i guess the driver is included?
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Thanks , back to homework :) - ii  lm-sensors     1:3.4.0-2 - .
<OerHeks> that was 2015
<OerHeks> modprobe w83627ehf ?
<Bashing-om> that is the source of my inquiry -> " modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'w83627ehf': Device or resource busy " .
<Bashing-om> Smoke break - smokers draw one .
<daftykins> device must be claimed by another module already?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: OH for sure is claimed . now I want to tell the system to share it ... Telling the system to ignore the error scares me !
<daftykins> share? you can't have two active drivers :D you gotta unload the other / blacklist it
<Bashing-om> Uh HUh . Agreed . but Bios has the claim , I do not want that I defeat what bios has set up But I want my cake too and run lm-sensors :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I looking at ACPI issues here so I am some kind of careful .
<daftykins> BIOS locking it o0 that doesn't make much sense
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Well, Lots I have to learn yet with this can of worms . but looking at voltage and clocking control from bios that the driver w83627ehf also wants to access . I am aware of a couple of possible things I can do . one of which I am not comforable with, and the other; I want to know the ID of the chip that w83627ehf is accessing .
<daftykins> device ID?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Old docs " modprobe w83627ehf force_id=0x8860 " . And old docs do not relate now to verifying " 8860 " in systemd .
<daftykins> hrmm
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Old docs - prior to the fan control split from lm-sensors .. file locations and addressing no longer apply .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-22
<daftykins> !info kodi-peripheral-dev
<ubot5> Package kodi-peripheral-dev does not exist in xenial
<daftykins> of course it doesn't
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morinng
<EriC^^> *morning
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> its stormy here
<EriC^^> sunny here
<lotuspsychje> cool
<EriC^^> it's been raining a lot though before
<EriC^^> how's life?
<lotuspsychje> great here mate
<lotuspsychje> alot of work in the kitchen
<lotuspsychje> and we moved to our new house
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> congrats
<lotuspsychje> still working on the business room now
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: how about you, any progresses?
<EriC^^> been fixing the car
<lotuspsychje> nice
<EriC^^> also found out its price is going up big time without my knowledge
<lotuspsychje> oldtimer?
<EriC^^> so-so it's an 87
<EriC^^> other than that eating a lot, making lots of crazy sandwiches :D
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<EriC^^> and skating a little sometimes
<lotuspsychje> ah didnt know you skate
<lotuspsychje> the streets or rampage?
<EriC^^> streets, i'm not that good i used to skate when i was like 14 then recently kind of felt like it
<EriC^^> it's good exercise and lots of fun
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> big update this morning
<EriC^^> ubuntu repos?
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.64.68 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<lotuspsychje> yep
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> i read xenial got 16.10 kernel advantages now
<EriC^^> yup that's true
<EriC^^> did you try 16.10?
<EriC^^> i've not downloaded it yet
<lotuspsychje> no, im sticking to LTS
<EriC^^> same here, i usually d/l the iso and give it a whirl in a vm though
<EriC^^> mostly for the background and added bells and whistles
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> i got some stupid fish recently
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> i was on the road at a stop light and some guy was selling so i was like this should be interesting to get
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> selling fish on the road?
<EriC^^> yeah haha
<EriC^^> they were in a tiny container
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> i put them in the car and went skating for a while, when i came back they weren't as swimming anymore
<EriC^^> so i was like shit i better get home quickly
<EriC^^> on the way back on a corner the container fell on the carpet and all the water fell out, and they were in the container on their sides fiddling around
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<EriC^^> i was like crap! so i pulled to the side
<lotuspsychje> so you had to buy an aquarium?
<EriC^^> and dumped the little water from the carpet on them, then went to a supermarket and bought some water and poured it
<EriC^^> nah i cut off a big water liter thing and they're living in it now
<EriC^^> it's like 20liters or something, i was thinking to get an aquarium or something but i dont know they're a little work plus they're so sensitive and stuff
<EriC^^> also they supposedly grow to like 30cm or so (yeah those little goldfish ones!) i didn't know that
<lotuspsychje> what kind of fish are they?
<EriC^^> both goldfish, one is a common goldfish that's orange
<lotuspsychje> cool
<EriC^^> the other i found online what he is i think, shubunkin or something
<EriC^^> they need huge tanks to live right or a pond or something though
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> gotta run mate, about to go breakfast and sauna
<EriC^^> ok, have a good one
<lotuspsychje> tnx and ttyl
<EriC^^> ttyl
<lotuspsychje> have a nice opne aswell :p
<EriC^^> thanks :D
<ducasse> good morning
<Bashing-om> ducasse: \o Shift Change !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: you still here? :)
<Bashing-om> Oh beyond my time .. just BSn on nother channel .. and can not get away - while watching the main for any action .
<ducasse> i know what you mean. i'm thinking of upgrading my laptop to zesty today, so i'll be here a little on and off.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I upgraaded to zesty a while back - seems stable on my system .. sorta taken with gnome3.
<ducasse> might need to give gnome another look. do you use a lot of extensions to make it tolerable?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I find it pretty tolerable as is . Have not to this time seen any need for any extensions ; But it is not in daily use .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: my first impressions of gnome3 was not good, so i quickly got rid of it. i hear extensions can make it a lot better, though, so i'll need to do some digging.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised with gnome3. Functional desktop that is UNintrusive . Docs presently are scarace .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: isn't that always a problem? :) BluesKaj is playing with kdeneon these days, i downloaded the image yesterday to check out on my desktop, it looks interesting.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Only goes to show us where we should devote a bit of our efforts .. complain; need to do something about it .
<Bashing-om> Anyway .. eyes popping out .. gonna cease and desist . laters !
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> howdy BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hows neon work out?
<BluesKaj> it's ok
<BluesKaj> not really much difference than kubuntu, once the missing apps are installed
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/browse/all/customization/screenshots/nix/?order=5&offset=45
<lotuspsychje> some latest linux shots here, lemme try if i can find neon
<BluesKaj> I'm not a breeze theme fan,. the icons are silly and boring
<BluesKaj> like kubuntu breeze is default in neon
<lotuspsychje> i see
<BluesKaj> and the colour theme is as well, so theres' a lot of stuff to change
<BluesKaj> testing kubuntu zesty beta1 atm and the desktop is unusable since it appears below the bottom panel
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> bbl movie, ttyl
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader
<lordievader> How are you guys doing?
<BluesKaj> ok here, lordievader, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good :)
<BluesKaj> was testing wayland, but it's not ready for use on my laptop, i3 cpu and intel gpu with 8Gb Ram and never felt the laptop get so warm, the mouse movement was jerky and not very responsive, something
<BluesKaj> was running in the background using up all thr resorces, but it froze so i couldn't open the system monitor
<BluesKaj> so wayland usage loses on my laptop ...for now
<lordievader> Still a very early stage for Wayland. Tried it once, but didn't know how to configure it and didn't really want to spent time on it.
<OerHeks> Dragon aborted. Issues on GPS. New attempt tomorrow. Space X said Dragon is healthy.
<BluesKaj> it was launched 2 days ago and put it's payload into an orbit to meet the ISS then the booster successfully landed back on the pad
<OerHeks> no, just right now, http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/22/technology/spacex-abort-docking-space-station/index.html
<BluesKaj> ah, the payload in orbit has a nav problem with it's gps
<OerHeks> jups
<OerHeks> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream dark now
<BluesKaj> pay;load = dragon
<OerHeks> there is no bugreport on launchpad, so i think it does not run ubuntu.
<OerHeks> Pluto is a planet!
<nicomachus> a DWARF planet!
<OerHeks> Oke, a Giant Normal Dwarf Planet.
<KingsQuest> we gotta get a life were always on the internet we got to hire a university for freenode
<KingsQuest> statistics
<Bashing-om> I would have it no other way ... Me and my keyboard .. irc here I come :)
<KingsQuest> e plurbus unum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-8Rd9QBlJI
<KingsQuest> most american thing ever
<daftykins> thought it was 'enum'
<lotuspsychje> good night to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey .. Bad case of insomnia ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: you guessed right :p
<lotuspsychje> stormy outside, heavy dinner last night, bit mix of everything
<OerHeks> silence for the storm now...
<Bashing-om> Well, then good for us .. pick up our slack in main :) .. been kinda busy and interesting . One listed as can not help .
<lotuspsychje> !info x2go
<ubot5> Package x2go does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> welcome mint12
<mint12> hi lotuspsychje
 * lotuspsychje drinks bancha tea
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-released-new-kernel-update-for-ubuntu-16-04-to-fix-7-vulnerabilities-513203.shtml
<lotuspsychje> hence why the big update yesterday
<Bashing-om> mint12 with a serious allergic reaction to bancha tea ?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> or perhaps too much ubuntu discuss
<lotuspsychje> bancha tea is one of the only green teas you can drink safely before sleep
<Bashing-om> Naw .. we can rule out - too much ubuntu discuss - . Not round long enough to wear thin . Must be a something else .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-23
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Is it camile that the other half dispenses in sleepless condition ?
<lotuspsychje> camille is also to a deeper sleep
<Bashing-om> Aye . memory not too shabby, even if not perfect .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: most teas have 'tanine' inside and works bit the same as cafeine ==> no sleep
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: welcome mate
<yobagme_> lotuspsychje: thank you!
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: this is where the good guys hang  and discuss the side topics on #ubuntu
<Bashing-om> Uh Huh .. I have learned thogh to trust "her" judgement in these kinds of matters . " drink this, you will feel better" .. right ! )
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: magic potion of the wife always work :p
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: wich flavor are you on?
<Bashing-om> Uh Huh .. and when all else fails .. wifey has that final solution :P
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: thats good to see the dualism dissapears for solutions
<yobagme_> lotuspsychje: Desktop: Ubuntu GNOME 16.04. Servers: Ubuntu 16.04 mostly, one 14.04 box for MythTV, and FreeBSD
<lotuspsychje> you see opensource goes a long way
<yobagme_> you?
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: cool!, om on 16.04 LTS also all my boxes
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: wasnt mythtv discontinued recently?
<yobagme_> lotuspsychje: LTS all the way! tried arch for 2 weeks last year with awful results
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: ubuntu forfills all my needs also
<yobagme_> mythbuntu is dead, yes, but mythtv itself lives on. I run it on stock Ubuntu server 14.04
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: ah, good to know
<lotuspsychje> nacc: good evening :p
<nacc> lotuspsychje: heya!
<yobagme_> lotuspsychje: you stick exclusively with ubuntu for everything?
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: yes, even ubuntu-touch for my tablet and phone
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: im also a unity lover
<yobagme_> oh, speaking of which! so i loaded ubuntu touch on my old nexus 5 via ubports. did an update and all of a sudden my browser and a few other apps crash immediately once they open.
<yobagme_> so back to stupid android for now
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: can you recall wich channel you pushed to your n5?
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: so i hear nexus5 should be now fully supported
<yobagme_> it was the stable channel, but i even tested the non-stable branches too. this was about a month back, so it might be work revisiting
<yobagme_> it is fully supported, bluetooth, wifi, etc...
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: my nexus7 wifi model works like 100% great on ubuntu touch
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: you did the --deboostrap also while installing?
<yobagme_> nice! is it your daily mobile driver? anything lacking?
<yobagme_> I have not tried -debootstrap
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: nothing lagging, but rather a wishlist for some things
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: a book/pdf closet like Ios would be nice to have
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: lemme try to find you a good n5 tut holdon
<yobagme_> i'm surprised it doesn't already have one
<yobagme_> thanks!
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: article about it for start: http://opensourceforu.com/2017/01/ubuntu-touch-gets-full-compatibility-nexus-5/
<yobagme_> excellent! i'll need to give it another try tomorrow. thanks again!
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: dont forget the --bootstrap when installing
<lotuspsychje> yobagme_: just asked the ubuntu touch guys wich channel would be best, might be worth asking before install
<lotuspsychje> they alseep atm
<yobagme_> i'll have coffee ready for them when they wake up
<yobagme_> gotta run, fellas. hopefully we'll speak again tomorrow!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> laterz yobagme_
<lotuspsychje> !usn
<ubot5> Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about recent Ubuntu security updates.
<lotuspsychje> USN-3205-1: tcpdump vulnerabilities
<lotuspsychje>  looks nasty
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: On that note j4f-shredder is on the ignore list.
<ducasse> good morning all
<OerHeks> hi ducasse :-)
<EriC^^> morning ducasse OerHeks
<ducasse> morning OerHeks - how are you and doggy? :)
<ducasse> hi EriC^^ :)
<OerHeks> Windpseed 8, Drabber can fly today
<EriC^^> :)
<OerHeks> c/speed
<ducasse> cold?
<OerHeks> Yeah, chilly ..
<ducasse> looks quite cold here, but i haven't checked temp yet...
<ducasse> we'll see if the cat wants to go out :)
<ducasse> anyone other than me like civ? https://www.humblebundle.com/civilization-bundle
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^, what;s happening?
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: not much, sunny here todat
<EriC^^> you?
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, rain and and misty atm , supposed to cear later
<BluesKaj> clear
<OerHeks> SHA1 cracked by dutchie, lets move to SHA2 https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/02/at-deaths-door-for-years-widely-used-sha1-function-is-now-dead/
<OerHeks> :-D
<nicomachus> isn't SHA1 pretty well out-of-use anyway?
<OerHeks> not really, according to this arstechnica piece
<nicomachus> oh
<nacc> git :/
<EriC^^> evening everyone
<OerHeks> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi OerHeks
<OerHeks> Stormy weather, Drabber ( 4 pounds) wants to fly all day
<EriC^^> aha, calm evening here, it's been sunny for the last few days thankfully
<EriC^^> what kind of bird is Drabber?
<OerHeks> Chihuahua, the deadly type ..
<EriC^^> aha!
<OerHeks> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/Drabber-bot.JPG
<EriC^^> haha that's an awesome pic
<OerHeks> hilarious.. http://news.softpedia.com/news/how-ironic-harman-kardon-s-microsoft-cortana-speaker-is-powered-by-linux-513218.shtml
<EriC^^> nice!
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<EriC^^> hey lordievader
<EriC^^> good thanks, you?
<lordievader> Doing okay, seeing if this week Ovirt does want to install.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: good morning to you! just here to see the back of me, about to get ready for sleepytime :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Thanks for the welcome ; hey seeing the backsides is our routine :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: have a fun one :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I do what I can to make it so ; sleep well . see ya on the other side .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-24
<lordievader> Good morning.
<OerHeks> hi di hi, lordievader
<lordievader> Hey OerHeks, how are you?
<OerHeks> I'm fine, so are you ??
<lordievader> Jup, making coffee. Life is good.
 * lordievader slides OerHeks a cup of coffee
<OerHeks> nummie .. and it is friday too!
<lordievader> Hahaha, HP promoting a new printer via an '80 parody: http://www.adweek.com/creativity/hp-is-advertising-its-real-modern-printers-on-this-fake-awkward-80s-computer-show/
<OerHeks> :-D
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<lordievader> o/'
<OerHeks> nacc, it is your friday :-D
<nacc> ridiculous
<nacc> OerHeks: some days :)
<nacc> OerHeks: seriously, this person is clearly a sysadmin without a clue
<OerHeks> same for this happyfrog dude too, i remember somewhere he is a troll...
<ducasse> nacc: there are far too many of them now
<nacc> and this svalcken person
<ducasse> OerHeks: the 'i inserted ubuntu in my cpu and now my computer does not compute' troll was back again earlier today
<nacc> upgraded from saucy to trusty by just appending trust to sources.list
<nacc> *trusty
<OerHeks> I surely like to send a nude pic of ddr4 dimm, that will keep them buzy for 2 hrs.. /facepalm
<daftykins> :D must be a debian user
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<EriC^^> hi pauljw
<EriC^^> hi daftykins OerHeks
<daftykins> hey hey \o
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw, OerHeks, daftykins yes I've become a debian user, and I'm enjoying it :-)
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ , BluesKaj... debian???  cool ;)
<daftykins> D:
<BluesKaj> debian stretch
<ducasse> \o all
<pauljw> hi ducasse
<EriC^^> hey ducasse
<BluesKaj> kde/plasma DE of course
<pauljw> :)
<EriC^^> daftykins: i got 2 fish
<daftykins> must be good fun on debian, wondering if any package will work out of the box or needs config edits first ;)
<daftykins> EriC^^: from fishing? :)
<EriC^^> 1 is an idiot, the gold one, you put food for it, it runs away, then when it's sinking next to it it doesn't see it, and the other one goes from the other side and eats it
<EriC^^> no i bought them from a guy selling them at a stop light
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> seems legit
<EriC^^> lol
<ducasse> EriC^^: they're still alive?!
<ducasse> gosh
<EriC^^> yeah i've been changing their water and feeding them
<BluesKaj> all the packages I installed worked without a hitch
<OerHeks> do fishsticks swim?
<EriC^^> the gold one is hilarious though, he follows the other one around all the time, and he's super swimming around when any noise happens, and he almost seems blind
<EriC^^> the other one just eats and eats and eats
<pauljw> awesome BluesKaj, not familiar, does debian stay on the bleeding edge or no?
<BluesKaj> pauljw, stretch is one their dev OSs and it's close to official release, and it's very stable so far
<pauljw> nice, fun to learn new OSs.
<daftykins> only when the package management is the same :D
<daftykins> fedora was such a joke when i tried it XD
<BluesKaj> yeah , once installed and running debain and ubuntu are very similar
<BluesKaj>  debian even
<EriC^^> yum wasn't yummy at all
<EriC^^> (sorry)
<ducasse> the new'ish fedora thing (dnf?) seemed ok
<daftykins> :D
<BluesKaj> dnf ?
<daftykins> yeah and yum is just symlinked to dnf now
<daftykins> dnf is yum's replacement
<BluesKaj> yeah it's supposed to be the best yet
<daftykins> when i first read it i thought "did not finish" was a good fit ;D
<BluesKaj> I liked fedora from last summer for a week or so , but it's media management is weak
<pauljw> when i want to twist my mind, i fire up trueos, i'm totally lost with everything from the filesystem structure to the package management... but it's fun.
<daftykins> not if you need proprietary drivers, you have to sit there and drop to another runlevel, install the binary package (but it'll only go on if you have nouveau blacklisted)
<daftykins> but you can only boot up to a working system to do that installation if you have a driver working enough to reach the OS... so it becomes a catch 22 mess :>
<BluesKaj> truos,... is that a nod to trump :-)
<pauljw> heheh... you'd have to ask the bsd guys about that..
<ducasse> BluesKaj: pc-bsd's 'server' fork
<ducasse> not fork, spin
<BluesKaj> bsd , not my cuppa tea
<pauljw> ducasse, they've changed lately so either desktop or server is named trueos
<BluesKaj> presumptuous handle :-)
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> i was in the right place at the right time yesterday, guys - http://i.imgur.com/TJMdRhw.jpg
<daftykins> *swoosh* - *splat*
<pauljw> lol
<pauljw> our babies are growing like little weeds...  nasty weather coming today and tonight with a 50F drop in temp and 60mph straight line winds, hope they'll be okay.
<pauljw> for that matter, hope we'll be okay... lol
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> time to sneak them into the house overnight ;)
<pauljw> sry, was away...  wish we could sneak them in daftykins, but we're already having a heck of time keeping the adults out.  it's amazing how small of an opening they can get through. :)
<daftykins> hehe
<pauljw> luckily, this old farmhouse has a mudroom so they don't get into the house before we capture them and put them back outside.
<daftykins> :D
<Bashing-om> Rats or kittens ^ - next door neighbor ?
<daftykins> i had to poop scoop the two furry devils yesterday as the folks are away on travels once again
<pauljw> fun stuff...
<daftykins> ended up washing up the whole containers and laying down fresh litter, lost one of them in the garage during that task!
<pauljw> cats and kittens Bashing-om
<daftykins> had to kick them out until i was finished in the end ;)
<pauljw> lol
<pauljw> neighbors we just shoot, shovel and shutup...
<Bashing-om> See what I get comming into the end of the conversation ? I got to play catch=up somehow :)
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> gotta love cats, in a way i almost feel it's harsh the way we separate them from their mothers so young
<pauljw> yeah, but i think their mothers are secretly grateful...
<daftykins> :D
<pauljw> thunderstorms coming, might disappear unexpectedly...
<daftykins> D: fingers crossed!
<pauljw> we just went and moved the kittens into the cat house i built for momma before she had them, she wasn't too happy but they are safe and dry for the moment.
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> hope you anchored that thing into the ground well ;)
<daftykins> otherwise it might need a fallout shelter addon!
<pauljw> well, it's in a protected corner, but she has already moved em back into the original nest.  wife and i decided we're just not going to watch...
<daftykins> the barn is just oh-so-comfy!
<pauljw> ah, but they're not in the barn, she had them in one of our basement window wells...
<daftykins> ooh
<OerHeks> mama knows best :-)
<pauljw> yeah, she think so OerHeks, but when it rains, it gets really wet and deep in that well...  we'll see how it goes i guess.  as you say, she's going to do it her way, good or bad. :)
<pauljw> brb...
<daftykins> is it easily climbed out of?
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-25
<pauljw> it is for her and other than rain it's a perfect spot.
<pauljw> guess i'm gonna be standing watch and moving the babies as needed to keep them alive...  i'll take em out, she'll put em back... :(
<daftykins> doh!
<daftykins> i'd throw in a board that can be climbed up if possible :>
<pauljw> they're only a week old with eyes still closed, don't know if they'd figure that out...
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> unlike them... ;x
<pauljw> heheh...
<OerHeks> 3 more days, after 10 days the eyes will open, and then trouble starts as they start crawling :-D
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> into _everything_!
<pauljw> i just hope we can keep them safe till weened and then take them to the spca for adoption.  i don't trust folks in the area to do the right thing and get them fixed.
<daftykins> indeed :S
<OerHeks> kittens need to be 10 weeks with their mum, no?
<daftykins> Guernsey used to be overrun with cats, but a very strict policy means there are actually waiting lists for kittens now, so i've heard
<pauljw> yes, OerHeks 8 to 10 weeks
<OerHeks> Dogs a little longer, 12-14 weeks tops.
<OerHeks> By then the mum is glad they go, really :-D
<pauljw> :)
<OerHeks> "everytime I wake from suspend I cannot connect to wifi." ... impatience, 30 sec is a long time..
<daftykins> that's pretty bad in fairness!
<OerHeks> I thought i suffered that 'bug'too, but after 30 seconds .. bling!
<OerHeks> 91 keys .. mamamia
<nacc> ridiculous :)
<daftykins> hmm?
<OerHeks> and he is trolling, i don't believe he has 91 keys
<OerHeks> <Bashing-om> happyfr0gg: Ouch !! .. just how many keys do you have ' ls /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d | wc -l ' ? <happyfr0gg> Bashing-om,  91
<OerHeks> i have only 2 ..
<daftykins> oh that type of key :>
<OerHeks> daftykins, talk to the ops, you miss all the fun
<daftykins> ;) no thanks!
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: well i have 7 .. and no idea how come so many .. maybe I best do and find .. but 91 .. 91 !
<nacc> i think some are installed by default, e.g., the ubuntu key, the debian keys (maybe)
<nacc> not 100%
<OerHeks> i have 2 ( + normal repo keys)
<daftykins> could it be a PPA fiend?
<OerHeks> i guess he is trolling.. i haven't seen proof that he is using so much ppa's >> feb 24 03:22:48 <happyfr0gg>	OerHeks - http://pastebin.com/QMAF12A8
<pauljw> that's a lot of ppa's
<OerHeks> 45 tops
<OerHeks> I need more beer if you want the exact number *hips*
<pauljw> lol
<OerHeks> oh Calvin, .. http://calvinhobbesdaily.tumblr.com/image/157653330354
<daftykins> ls -al /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ | pastebinit
<daftykins> :)
<pauljw> :)
<OerHeks> nacc, ppas are windows executables, let him win
<nacc> OerHeks: lol, not enough beer indeed
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> i sense IT sanity is being violated
<pauljw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24062260/
<OerHeks> yay, 1 key \o/
<OerHeks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nassi_IM8nI
<pauljw> well, gnite all.  eyes are getting heavy. :)
<Bashing-om> !info deluge-gtk xenial
<ubot5> deluge-gtk (source: deluge): bittorrent client written in Python/PyGTK (GTK+ ui). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.12-1ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 215 kB, installed size 1499 kB
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: How come this is not making any sense : http://pastebin.com/WyMFH6gc where we have deluge-gtk as a dependency, but ' apt-cache depends deluge-gtk ' says it breaks deluge and even more it replaces deluge ?? Where am I failing to understand ?
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, beats me too, i gave up looking. ppa's and ppa's combo do funny things.
<OerHeks> noobslab ppa, or webupd8 ?
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, i learned my lesson these last 3 days, people with ppa-hell >> reinstall, bye, see you in 30 minutes !
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Agreed - is the easyist thing to do .. and then it is clean . But I got nothing better to do than to see what I can learn :)
<pavlushka> on #System76 toothe> when is System76 going to release their 15" lappies again?
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> cuppa tea here
<lotuspsychje> and working day at 12H
<ducasse> me too - tea is utterly necessary to get started :)
<Bashing-om> Aye .. the passing of the watch :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: What is it with yalls powers - seems while yall have the morning tea the channel comes to a halt .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: everyone else is having theirs as well? :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well a logical expanation :) else asleep ?
<ducasse> it _is_ the weekend, so i'm guessing tooday will be slow
<ducasse> *today
<lotuspsychje> unless 17.04 beta users come flood us :p
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/entroware-launches-ubuntu-powered-aether-laptop-with-intel-kaby-lake-cpus-513291.shtml
<Bashing-om> from what I see, 17.04 even in beta is solid .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: did you test already?
<lotuspsychje> !zesty
<ubot5> Ubuntu 17.04 (Zesty Zapus) will be the 26th release of Ubuntu.  It is due to be released in April 2017. Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: zesty enters beta today?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: beta1 23feb
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: 17.04 about 3 weeks past . Seems mir has some catchup to do . but unity and gome3 are good on AMD platform here .
<lotuspsychje>  Current dev version: Zesty Zapus | Schedule: http://ubottu.com/y/zz
<ducasse> bah - mir :-/ waste of effort, imo.
<lotuspsychje> really wondering how still story will end
<lotuspsychje> this
<ducasse> my guess: wayland will eventually 'win'
<ducasse> but x will be there for years yet
<lotuspsychje> as for what i understand, canonical will leave the user to choose if the future will be X or mir
<ducasse> yes, that's what i heard too. even if canonical wants mir they will be in trouble if devs only choose to support wayland.
<ducasse> gnome supports wayland, as does kde, every other distro adopts wayland and ignores mir, intel refuses to add mir-only patches - it's really not looking good for mir.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/ubuntu-17-04-beta-1-download
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: and still phones and snap are deep based on mir plans already reall curious how they will go further
<ducasse> _that_ is an issue, in my view. i'd love to see ubuntu phones/tablets catch on...
<ducasse> what do you mean snap is based on mir?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: no i mean phones are mir, and they want the snap system on unity
<lotuspsychje> also for desktop
<ducasse> ah - i started to wonder :)
<lotuspsychje> my dream scenario would be that ubuntu touch makes a version to get installed on all phones
<lotuspsychje> if nothing happens with manufacturers, users will take over themselfs
<lotuspsychje> i think budgie and mate are also a good example of users taking over
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: have you tested budgie?
<lotuspsychje> not yet, but looks promising
<ducasse> and of course we need another desktop environment - too few to choose from ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> we're getting to the point where it would probably be better for users if the devs focused on making a smaller number of them better...
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: so, are you working the entire weekend?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: sunday off :p but next week much work as its holiday
<lotuspsychje> not sure how its called in english
<lotuspsychje> crocus holiday lol
<ducasse> me neither :) translated from norwegian it would just be 'winter holiday' :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: what time is on your place?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: it be 01:36 .
<lotuspsychje> serious overtime :p
<lotuspsychje> 8h37 here
<Bashing-om> 'bout to my jumping off place .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: well, have a good night's sleep, might see you when you return :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah jump back to irc when you finished :p
<ducasse> i need to reboot because systemd is stupid :-(
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> more tea first! :)
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: working all of next week or going away too?
<lotuspsychje> working : (
<lotuspsychje> alot of tourists at our city in holidays= more kitchen work
<ducasse> at least that brings in money so you can go away later :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> thats optimistic indeed
<ducasse> :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: they hired someone new in the kitchen, also hope that will give me a few days more
<ducasse> it's good that they're not too reliant on you, at least, so you can have time off etc
<lotuspsychje> well for now, they pretty reliant on me as i started when the business opened
<lotuspsychje> ideal would be 20h/week
<ducasse> how much are you working now?
<lotuspsychje> 38+ : (
<ducasse> so, full time..
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> and summer havent started yet
<lotuspsychje> oh well hoping on better times :p
<lotuspsychje> dont wanna nag
<ducasse> well, at least it brings in money, right?
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats the bright part
<lotuspsychje> and i also love doing kitchen work also
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: welcome
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: think drivers on a linux has been problematic from the start
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: all we can hope is linux to get bigger and bigger and more support
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: also newer hardware needs newer hardware support
<lotuspsychje> *driver
<Bashing-om> mcrt: If ya tunning a later released card , in good shape ; else AMD and our community still working on a good driver .
<Bashing-om> running*
<mcrt> right. im dont actually have an amd card, just curious about the issue
<Bashing-om> mcrt: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2340914#post13561269 ; https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2317199#post13540589 .
<ducasse> mcrt: the thing about amd drivers is that amdgpu is very new, it hasn't had time to mature yet. they probably dropped fglrx too early, but i guess they couldn't have that many people working on linux drivers.
<mcrt> seems like there are patches to make fglrx compile on newer kernels too
<ducasse> mcrt: you also need old x.org
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: welcome to the club :p
<alkisg> Hello!
<alkisg> Not sure which topics would go here though...
<alkisg> I know about #ubuntu-devel, #ubuntu-motu etc etc...
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: we discussing all new stuff happening to ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: to be a better support in main
<alkisg> OK, I'll lurk here to see... :)
<lotuspsychje> great!
<lotuspsychje> brb scrambled eggs are waiting for me
<mcrt> ducasse: gotcha. im pretty much stuck on xorg-1.9 myself
<mcrt> funnily enough this is a laptop that was sold with linux.
<ducasse> in all fairness, older cards with the radeon driver are usually very stable, as opposed to nvidia + nouveau.
<mcrt> gpu chip on this is intel
<mcrt> well, actually powervr
<mcrt> but yeah, the machine was originally sold with ubuntu preinstalled...
<mcrt> these days even unity fails to run. it's a 7 year old machine though, but still... so much for LTS
<ducasse> mcrt: i'm sure you can get help with that in #ubuntu, alternatively just switch to a lighter desktop
<Bashing-om> OH Kay ,, here is muy back side , catch up on the flop :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: nite nite
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Laters .
<mcrt> ducasse: thanks, it works fine for me. but it is still a sad story
<mcrt> ducasse: only thing you can gather from it is that binary drivers are not a very good option for the long haul
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: the #gamingonlinux community seems also to experiment with mesa and such
<mcrt> when the money moves, so does the driver support, and then you're pretty much out of luck
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: also interesting to hang there, to see how they fix
<lotuspsychje> and following phoronix driver news can be enlighting
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: finished breakfast? :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah, lol was it fast?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: maybe it just seemed fast to me :)
<mcrt> lotuspsychje: thanks :) ive got zsnes and dosbox running smoothly, that's pretty much all i need on this machine ;)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: too intering here to miss :p
<lotuspsychje> *interesting
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=phoronix_news
<mcrt> lotuspsychje: that page is so much nicer than the default landing on phoronix.com
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: http://www.deviantart.com/art/dark-cyan-i3-linux-663774452
<lotuspsychje> mcrt: yeah isnt it, nice category look
<lotuspsychje> isnt that cool, zesty kde on surface pro 3: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Kubuntu-17-04-Surface-Pro-3-659930569
<lotuspsychje> morning BobbyJr
<BobbyJr> Good morning
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: nice, but i don't like the color scheme...
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: dont like dark themes?
<ducasse> dark themes are ok, i don't like the cyan ;)
<lotuspsychje> ah
<ducasse> i'm not all that fond of dark gtk themes, though, few of them work well in all applications
<lotuspsychje> i like the vanilla windowmanagers + nice wallpaper
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: does i3 have themes by default?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: no, just a default color scheme and default font.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<ducasse> you _can_ make it look very nice, though, i've just made it practical and comfy :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah i like comfy tweaking aswell under the hood
<lotuspsychje> a system should be smooth to work with, very anyoing to work with windows these days
<ducasse> i3 is pretty nice to work with by default, but it gets a lot better by adding a few tools, setting your own keybindings etc
<ducasse> by now i have everything in muscle memory, so i hardly notice it's there
<lotuspsychje> yeah you told me the other day i3 pretty fast start compare to unity aswell
<lotuspsychje> for me its interesting to tweak unity same way, so i can bring this to my customers desktops
<lotuspsychje> too bad those snaps need launchpad account, so i have to make one for new customers
<ducasse> weird, really, as you don't need one to install them from cli
<lotuspsychje> ill test again later from ubuntu software
<ducasse> i've heard others say it's needed, so i'm sure you're right
<lotuspsychje> yeah also saw it passby main, they got errors about an account
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: same way you need the account on ubuntu-touch
<ducasse> i have mixed feelings about snap, especially that canonical won't let you host your own repo
<lotuspsychje> they idea is good, but the structure is complicated indeed
<lotuspsychje> no ppa's and cool software like telegram i find fantastic
<ducasse> i get slightly suspicious about things like that, and flatpak is completely open. flatpak requires systemd, though, so nothing's perfect ;)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: would love to see a bright future with the user got the complete choice over everything
<lotuspsychje> maybe thats too much asked
<ducasse> hehe, too many corps and govs who don't want that :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: off to work mate, ttyl ; )
<lotuspsychje> have a nice weekend
<ducasse> you too!
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<ducasse> did i tell you xbian has switched to kodi 17 now?
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse , I see, I still prefer jarvis, think krypton(17) is a terrible gui, it's much clunkier than jarvis, it's actually harder to navigate
<ducasse> i actually think it's much nicer :)
<BluesKaj> for me at least
<ducasse> although i've not used it that much yet
<BluesKaj> it's pk if you don't use addons
<BluesKaj> ok
<BluesKaj> too many menus
<ducasse> i really only use the kodi interface itself, not a lot of addons, so that might explain it
<ducasse> i keep noticing little things i think are done better, like the ui being better presented etc
<ducasse> BluesKaj: do you know if zesty has relatively new kde packages?
<BluesKaj> not really, thay're mainly the same packages, just upgraded using the plasma5 DE
<ducasse> ok. tried to play with kde connect, but it seems the yakkety packages are not very useful
<tarball> why is there a piece of software on ubuntu that produces its output in Microsoft Windows Excel format? since when supposedly FOSS systems use MS formats?
<tarball> hello again to those who were not just in ubuntu channel
<ducasse> which software?
<tarball> ducasse, "Checkbox"
<ducasse> tarball: never heard of it, but i can't see why the developer shouldn't be free to choose whatever format they please
<ducasse> tarball: looking at the wikipedia page, it doesn't seem like there are any limitations to using it in foss
<tarball> ducasse, regardless of hows and whats of 'xslx' format, I cant even imagine an MS-Office format -yes, it is one- in a FOSS system when there are alternatives. plain as that.
<ducasse> so, anything developed by ms is tainted beyond hope?
<tarball> ducasse. I guess it is a motive to comply with the broader ubuntu view of today to respond with arguments a la 'what is wrong with X'..still I answer your question; yes.
<tarball> and it is a direction
<tarball> that is deliberately taken
<tarball> why not alternatives when they are there and when they are FOSS?
<ducasse> i consider myself fairly strict on foss issues, but there is nothing in the licence that prevents foss from using it. sorry, but saying 'because ms' is just silly, imo.
<tarball> I already ventured into hearing from some that it is, no worries. but the fact is that it is not. for, again, 1. it has FOSS alternatives, why not use them instead if you are developing for a FOSS system 2. ubuntu is already known not to be strict about this distinction, and openly putting an MS format out there seems to be a statement for what is yet to come, frankly.
<tarball> and last, it disturbs me to see right in the middle of my desktop an MS Office file
<ducasse> this is _one_ application in the repos. there are tons of programs there with more worrying licence issues. 'because it was developed by ms' reminds me of people who won't use systemd because lennart poettering is the originator.
<ducasse> but whatever, you are entitled to your opinion.
<tarball> I dont know about that program. anyway, you're right about more worrying licenses
<tarball> and after having opted-out of third party programs during installation, I got graphic isses I never had, as a sidenote
<tarball> issues*
<OerHeks> when one stops feeding trolls, ..
<BluesKaj> OerHeks, it's the wekend , they seem to be mopre active this weekend than usual
<ducasse> seems there's been an influx of newbies lately, maybe it's just me.
<OerHeks> i know, still i know there are serious people needing a direction.
<OerHeks> and a lot of lonely people â«
<BluesKaj> there seems to be one or two in every chat I'm monitoring
<ducasse> anyone seen Eric^^ today?
<BluesKaj> ducasse, whois doesn't show him anywhere on freenode
<OerHeks> actually, i have never seen him.
<OerHeks> :-(
<ducasse> OerHeks: :-P
<OerHeks> eric could be a girl with curly hair ...
<BluesKaj> OerHeks,
<BluesKaj> ??
<OerHeks> oke oke i stop my fantasy
<BluesKaj> he lives in a dangerous city
<OerHeks> Beirut, yes?
<BluesKaj> yup
<BluesKaj> very helpful fella tho
<Bashing-om> Back ! .. Ready to do this again, see what a Saturday brings .
<BluesKaj> Hey Bashing-om, been quiet here for the 90 mins or so
<BluesKaj> last
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Hey hey - Quiet on the channel, generally means I get inquisitive and break something on my system . Just can not leave well enough alone :)
<OerHeks> Just finished the kitchen, now doing some ironing..
<BluesKaj> well, inquisitive has it's benefits, like learning how stuff breaks :-)
<ducasse> hehe, i've resisted upgrading to zesty all day, maybe i'll go ahead and break it properly now before bedtime :)
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: And we then know " do what I say; not what I do !) .
<BluesKaj> ducasse, zesty beta 1 is more stable than the daily
<BluesKaj> it's still in freeze anyway, I think
<ducasse> i might still be able to break it if only i try hard enough ;)
<BluesKaj> oh no doubt
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: ducasse Have yet to see any issue within my zesty install ( not counting mir - have not muchly explored ) .
<BluesKaj> ahh, i'm running kde/plasma5 here, there a few small issues, like konverstion supposedly crashing after I close it...strange behaviour there
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Follow up the error report . see if it is an identified issue ?
<ducasse> BluesKaj: weirdness. anything if you launch it from shell?
<BluesKaj> sorry ducasse, was called afk, haven't tried from the shell yet
<Bashing-om> !grub
<ubot5> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-26
<Bashing-om> !info libglapi-mesa xenial
<ubot5> libglapi-mesa (source: mesa): free implementation of the GL API -- shared library. In component main, is optional. Version 12.0.6-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 22 kB, installed size 175 kB
<__Kevin__> I love Ubuntu's font rendering
<daftykins> nothing like a good bit of subpixel rendering
<__Kevin__> yeah
<daftykins> which has been around for about 15 years now
<__Kevin__> lol
<OerHeks> nice, mpv got a subtitle downloader
 * OerHeks does not speak/read/think english
<Bashing-om> cudda fooled me ^^ :D
<daftykins> :D agreed!
<OerHeks> chinese language is fun, especially when i watch seison 5 of Elementary
<OerHeks> uh oh, nacc is back
<daftykins> everyone, hide!
 * OerHeks runs to a save place in Fukushima Daiichi
<OerHeks> 40 ppas ...
 * OerHeks facepalms
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: What ever became of the principle 'keep it clean ' ? Too many PPAs, surely all are not used / needed ?
<OerHeks> .. and just 8 keys ?
<Bashing-om> yeah, my thought too . I be a glutton - but we will see shortly :)
<OerHeks> well, i appreciate he is trying, even trying to fix it instead of start fresh when such mess happens..
<Bashing-om> We did tell him ! .. And yes it jas been a learning experience .
<OerHeks> hi di hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi OerHeks :D
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> Where is your friend lotuspsychje ???
<OerHeks> oh there he is
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> hi lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> hi EriC^^ & OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> hi Bashing-om
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<OerHeks> coÃ¯ncidense, i beluieve you
<OerHeks> -u
<lotuspsychje> playing early birds again?
<OerHeks> No sleep 'till monday i guess, i have those nights again...
<lotuspsychje> rainy insomnia + irc are the best
<OerHeks> Drabber is snorking under my bed :-D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> somone gotta sleep for 2
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/02/09/8-kde-snaps-written-in-january/
<lotuspsychje> kde snaps can be installed on every machine right? what to call them kde apps then?
<OerHeks> i thought KDE went for fastpack?
<OerHeks> or flatpck
<lotuspsychje> not sure
<JanC> I don't think they decided yet
<JanC> and of course everybody can make snaps or whatever other packages of KDE
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse :p
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: very good, day off and lazy sunday , how about you?
<ducasse> your message was well timed, as i just connected to tmux as it came in :)
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: your biorythm can be timed :p
<lotuspsychje> i have enough with like 7-8h sleep then i have to get up
<ducasse> having a lazysunday as well, it's cold here so most likely me and the cat will stay inside :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> tight plan
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: did you buy something with your extra money yet, or still thinking about it
<ducasse> thinking of waiting a bit and buying a nuc
<lotuspsychje> yeah those interest me also
<lotuspsychje> but i was wondering if ubuntu installs right out of the box, or needed specific kernels
<ducasse> i also need a new motherboard in my server, so i need to think a bit
<ducasse> the nucs work well with ubuntu afaik, but maybe you should stay away from kaby lake for now
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: you know what would be cool? a store where customers can bring their own Os and test hardware before buy :p
<ducasse> :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: this company also interests me: https://www.logicsupply.com/lp/ubuntu-linux-computers/?___store=en_us
<lotuspsychje> rugged nucs
<ducasse> expensive, though
<EriC^^> morning ducasse
<lotuspsychje> https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops
<lotuspsychje> too bad they dont allow No hd and dont ship to belgium grrr
<ducasse> hi EriC^^ - how's life?
<EriC^^> hi ducasse good, ate breakfast, smoking time now :)
<EriC^^> you?
<ducasse> EriC^^: much the same, except here it's tea and a smoke before breakfast :)
<EriC^^> :D
<ducasse> priorities. food can wait. ;)
<EriC^^> hehe
<lotuspsychje> there, contacted entroware..curious what they will answer
<lotuspsychje> have a nice sunday guys, off to city :p
<Bashing-om> Had all I can stand can stands no more , laters ,
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lordievader> o/
<Bashing-om> Are we still live ?
<Bashing-om> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<Bashing-om> Yepper we live, we live ! .. irc sure slow all over this day :P
<DJones> Isn't that a good thing, people know what they're doing and don;t need to ask questions
<DJones> Either that or trolls are haviing a day off
<OerHeks> Yes, they come in waves, DJones
<OerHeks> trolls-attract-trolls-theory
<BluesKaj> Hi gents , the trolls were pretty active earlier today ...mostly all on ignore or quieted atm
<BluesKaj> Hi Bashing-om, DJones, OerHeks
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Hiya! Just not a thing going on - on IRC - 11 channels and all inactive . What is our world comming to ? 'buntu that stable and user friendly ?
<BluesKaj> watch ing the daytona 500 maybe
<Bashing-om> Well; I can accept that a proportion of the populace is occupied with the Daytona 500 - and that 'buntu is in a healthy state .. but all over !
<BluesKaj> heh, reading headlines about trump's latest BS
<OerHeks> oh boy, DJones ( see #ubuntu)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-19
<anstore> hey
<anstore> i am new here
<anstore> i want to learn about this
<anstore> ok bye
<daftykins> phew
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well today?
<lordievader> Doing allright here. How are you?
<jink> Morning. ^__^
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks - still half asleep
<ducasse> hi jink
<lordievader> ducasse: Monday mornings, eh? ð
<ducasse> lordievader: just stayed up a bit too long yesterday :)
<lordievader> I'm familiar with that problem ...
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<jink> Hi Kaj.
<BluesKaj> hi jink
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader, ok here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Almost lunch time ð
<BluesKaj> right
<lordievader> Condolences BluesKaj, just read my history in -offtopic. Must be hard.
<BluesKaj> thanks lordievader, we're managing with difficulty, but hopefully it will be easier as time goes by
<jink> What happened? :/
<lordievader> Hopefully, yes.
<BluesKaj> jink, my wife passed away almost 2 weeks ago
<jink> Goddammit. :(
<jink> That's not cool, man.  My condolences.
<BluesKaj> thanks
<jink> I'm going to ask everything, but feel free to ignore me: What age?  Was she ill?  Do you have kids?
<jink> I really, really can't imagine what that'd be like.  I shiver at the thought of my wife passing away. :(
<jink> Fuck.  Just....  fuck. :(
<BluesKaj> jink, no need for thast kind of language
<BluesKaj> she was 72, a merciful quick death from thoracic aortic aneurysm, she wasn't ill, we have 4 kids, all grown with families of their own
<jink> <3
<JimBunbtu> You have my sympathy BluesKaj.
<BluesKaj> thanks JimBunbtu
<ducasse> BluesKaj: so sorry to hear about your wife. hope you're doing ok under the circumstances.
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, thanks, we're doing ok, as well as expected
<ducasse> hi, oerheks - how's life in .nl?
<oerheks> hey guys
<oerheks> monday, boring as usual :-D
<oerheks> i am about to shutdown my pc, and remove everything, so i can sand down my desk to give it a fresh lack coating tomorrow
<ducasse> boring here as well, about to make dinner
<ducasse> oerheks: you shouldn't waste time on donofrio, he refuses to stay in the wsl channel for support
<oerheks> oh
<oerheks> :-D
<ducasse> i, at least, refuse to support that crap ;)
<oerheks> me too
<oerheks> have no clue actually
<ducasse> it's impossible to support, as we have no clue how it behaves
<oerheks> solved
<oerheks> 1 Q answered,2 to go for today \0/
 * oerheks is searching for sandpaper with 120 grit
<ducasse> !cookie | oerheks
<ubot5> oerheks: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<pauljw> hi everyone
<oerheks> hi there paul
<pauljw> hey oerheks, how you doing?
<oerheks> just finished diner :-)
<oerheks> ducasse, now he is trying with 18.04 .. https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/2960
<ducasse> oerheks: "hi! i'm doing unsupported stuff with unsupported tools on unsupported software, and i want support"
<oerheks> he really riscs a ban
<JimBunbtu> "riscs" like ARM? j/k
<oerheks> oh boy, laptop came in
 * oerheks starts looking at the specs
<oerheks> Acer Aspire 5738g / gma4500 / 300 gb / 4 gb ...
<oerheks> hmm maybe it will work with an ssd
<TJ-> is that one with a 32-bit EFI ?
<oerheks> no, old vista machine.. but with vga + hdmi :-D
<oerheks> now booting ubuntu, vista works, but no more updates
<oerheks> 2 ghrz machine, nice
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Some of the acer machines have vendor lockin :  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2330267 . set trust in the firmware .
<pauljw> my little acer aspire one didn't have any difficulty with the ssd i put in it.
<oerheks> amazing..
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse ; )
<oerheks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<lotuspsychje> not bad gnome-usage
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-usage bionic
<ubot5> gnome-usage (source: gnome-usage): simple system monitor app for GNOME. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.27.90-1 (bionic), package size 200 kB, installed size 637 kB
<oerlaptop> and... online
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> what you buy oerlaptop ?
<oerlaptop> no, freebie
<oerlaptop> :-F
<lotuspsychje> sysinfo?
<oerlaptop> avista acer 5738g 4gb/now ssd ...
<oerlaptop> wait
<oerlaptop> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 â¢ OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 â¢ CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T6400  @ 2.00GHz (1,20GHz) â¢ Memory: Physical: 3,8 GiB Total (2,2 GiB Free) Swap: 2,0 GiB Total (2,0 GiB Free) â¢ Storage: 10,8 GB / 64,7 GB (53,9 GB Free) â¢ VGA: NVIDIA Corporation G98M [GeForce G 105M] @ Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Memory Controller Hub â¢ Uptime: 30m 14s
<lotuspsychje> yay
<lotuspsychje> on xorg oerlaptop
<oerlaptop> not bad, just tested youtube
<oerlaptop_> switch to wifi
<lotuspsychje> :p
<oerlaptop_> now lets see about charging te battery
<oerlaptop_> brb
<lotuspsychje> kk
<oerlaptop> hdmi works
<lotuspsychje> cool
<oerlaptop> nad vga, perhaps
<oerlaptop> c/and
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<oerlaptop> hi lordievader :-)
<oerlaptop> early bird :-P
<lordievader> Hey oerlaptop
<lordievader> Early to work, early to go back home ð
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<oerlaptop> good, waiting for a repairman, and how do you do?
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader & oerlaptop
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx and you?
<lordievader> oerlaptop: Doing good here :)
<lordievader> oerlaptop: What kind of repairman?
<oerlaptop> ha, our roomsoesjes-man
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> XD
<lotuspsychje> oerlaptop: artful been tested well?
<oerlaptop> this lap is working great, for an ancient vista machine
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> what ssd brand oerlaptop
<EriC^^> morning guys
<oerlaptop> adata, 60 gb
<oerlaptop> hi di hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> moin oerlaptop , how dae got tae?
<oerlaptop> i wonder who is more happy, me or him finding out it will be of good use
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> oerlaptop: its a workover for a friend?
<oerlaptop> jups, used in an office
<oerlaptop> now they al have win10
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> good morning, all
<oerlaptop> hi ducasse
<ducasse> morning, oerlaptop
<ducasse> still happy with the new laptop?
<oerlaptop> sure, stood up early for it
<oerlaptop> but battery is not charging at all :-(
<ducasse> are you buying a new one?
<oerlaptop> Yes, as it is not that expensive, it would be wise
<oerlaptop> 30 euro, i was thinking 60 euro+
<lordievader> That is quite cheap. Official one or an unknown brand?
<ducasse> that's actually pretty cheap, yes
<oerlaptop> not from acer..
<oerlaptop> https://www.replacedirect.nl/category/119311-101031/acer-aspire-5738g-laptop-accus.html#product
<oerlaptop> or an original 4400ah or double, but might have a bulb that sticks out
<oerlaptop> free shipping too
<ducasse> my new cable modem is expected today, will give me an extra 100mbps
<ducasse> built-in wifi router, hope i can just bridge it and use it as just a modem
<oerlaptop> grrrrrrrr coupon 5 euro ... order â¬30 or more... 5 cents
<lotuspsychje> oerlaptop: i also order spare parts on that site
<lotuspsychje> very nice service
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj, pauljw - how are you guys today?
<pauljw> hi ducasse, good here, you?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, doing ok here, hanging in as the saying goes, how about you?
<ducasse> i'm fine, thanks - soon heading down to the city for a bit
<BluesKaj> was going to pick my son up at the airport, but the hwys are covered ice from freezing rain...dunno if his filght will be on time anyway
<TJ-> BluesKaj: tell him to hire a parachute and a helicopter :D
<BluesKaj> ice covered rather
<BluesKaj> uhhm, helis don't fly in this ewather TJ- ;-)
<ducasse> snowing here, but not heavily - yet. forecast says it's coming, though.
<BluesKaj> weather even
<JimBunbtu> Thanks to the local rain, I'm looking out my window at almost no snow. Blessed be the rains that melt the snow.
<BluesKaj> i prefer snow ...rain is useless in winter
<BluesKaj> but i gew up i with real winters so we took advantage of the the fun one could have doing winter sports and activities
<JimBunbtu> BluesKaj, I grew up with what I consider to be real winters as well... sub 40 latitude. While I do enjoy the occasional activity in the snow, I prefer not having to deal with it... all that to say I don't get my way very often and we have more snow-time than no-snow-time
<BluesKaj> JimBunbtu, right I live in Northern Ontario Canada 46' N  so we have long winters or at least we did until 10yrs ago or so
<JimBunbtu> BluesKaj, weather has been odd for the last 10 or so years, hopefully it's simply part of the long cycle.
<BluesKaj> yup, hopefully it's the 1000 yr warming cycle that had a climate in which wild grapes could grow in places like Newfoundland
<BluesKaj> and not the global warming that climatotlogists are yelling about
<JimBunbtu> yummy yummy wild grapes. Stay away from the moonseed though!
<BluesKaj> yeah, the Vikings were surprised  when they discovererd them growing in Nfld
<JimBunbtu> "Vinland"
<JimBunbtu> BluesKaj, I'm just a wee south of you now, winters are surely stronger and longer.
<BluesKaj> JimBunbtu, where is that?
<JimBunbtu> around 43 lat
<JimBunbtu> It's raining and I absolutely love it. Perhaps today I will muster up the will to check out that Unity update.
<BluesKaj> kde/plasma user here, never understood unity's appeal :-)
<BluesKaj> or gnome
<jink> bash.
<JimBunbtu> I spend most of my time in Bash shells. I don't really have a draw to KDE/Gnome or any other and mainly go with default for the distro. I haven't found any sufficiently bad enough to make me yak yet.
<BluesKaj> I'm an old windows guy and I'm used to gui, but since discovering linux I've migrated to the terminal for a lot of uses
<ducasse> i live in terminals and use terminal-based alternatives for a lot of applications
<BluesKaj> i3 ?
<BluesKaj> i3 wm rather
<ducasse> i3, yes. i've been playing with sway on wayland, but wayland just isn't ready yet.
<ducasse> i3 is excellent for managing lots of terminals. i also use tmux inside them, though.
<BluesKaj> right
<BluesKaj> yakuake is about as adventurous as I get in the cli realm
<JimBuntu> +1 for tmux
<ducasse> i also played with terminator, but handling window splitting etc in tmux is just nicer
<BluesKaj> for gui, i use a combo of activities and VDs for different fav apps
<BluesKaj> and an actitvty pager in the panel
<ducasse> i have a lot of desktops split across 3 screens, not familiar with 'activities'
<JimBuntu> ducasse, Are they different computers? If so, have you checked out Synergy for a single KB/Mouse to control everything?
<BluesKaj> activities is a kde/plasma thing, but I use a single screen monitor which is my Panasonic 43" plasma TV
<ducasse> JimBuntu: no, same box. there's only one computer on that desk. i know synergy, might use it if i decide to set up my mac mini again.
<JimBuntu> ducasse, I absolutely love Synergy. I'm using 5 machines spread across 9 monitors, it really saves me from headaches.
<ducasse> i can imagine that, thankfully i don't need to spread my focus across 9 screens :)
<BluesKaj> no need for multiple screens being a home user
 * TJ- whistles innocently
 * nicomachus searches his history for TJ-'s battlestation pics
<nicomachus> with all... was it 6?... monitors
<TJ-> Aye :) plus another 4 laptops within reach
<TJ-> Place is one heck of a mess right now, not even room for my mug on the worktop :)
<JimBuntu> This was already a 2-computer desk by design... I figured why not take it up a notch and make shelves for more monitors and simply use the desktop space for laptops ;-D
<TJ-> Yeah, I've 5 wall-mounted monitors around the corner plus the laptop driving them, then the rest around the sides on the worktop
<JimBuntu> I don't think I could reasonably justify any more over here. Even with them angled in at me, I still have to move my head a bit depending on which one I need to look at.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: I sit in the corner where the 2 walls meet, so all I do is swivel the chair slightly
<JimBuntu> TJ-, lucky you with your "corner office" lol.
<TJ-> I use a BT keyboard and mouse, and they are on a lap-stand across my legs so it makes things comfortable
 * BluesKaj sits in an easy chair with wireless KB and mouse about 3M away from the screen...pc is the floor below the table theat holds all my components and TV
<TJ-> BluesKaj: how larger physically is the screen, at 3m away?
<TJ-> I'm about 75cm from my monitors - they're 24" 1920x1200, with the laptop being 15" 1920x1200
<BluesKaj> it's a media center sort of ...TV is 43" screen TJ-
<JimBuntu> I can swivel 90 to the right... if I need to get up... if I swivel another 90 degrees to the right then I am facing a workbench with other gear on it. I call it "cozy", many would probably call it cramped.
<TJ-> BluesKaj: wow, so you can still see the pixels then! I did consider larger screens but it'd mean sitting further away
<BluesKaj> yeah I use a 18 sized font for these old eyes, with regular 1920x1080 res
<TJ-> JimBuntu: I've got a mini datacenter to my left, and electronics workbench to the right http://iam.tj/photos/Study-workstation.jpg (in that picture the electronics stuff was right next to me but now it's other end of the right-side bench about 3 meters away)
<TJ-> BluesKaj: yes, I've considered that - In the new place I'm planning on a couple of 4K 42"+ wall-mounted screens and be able to sit well back from them, as an alternative to smaller screens when I want to rest my eyes
<JimBuntu> TJ-, lol, we have similar gear... although I don't see a streo-macroscope in the pic, I do see an arm for what I suspect is a lamped magnifying glass. I really need to clean up around here so I can take some pics
<TJ-> JimBuntu: angle-poise magnify/lamp yes, and there's another arm with a camera on
<JimBuntu> It's hard to beat a magnified video feed when you want to complain to a fabricator about their shoddy work!
<TJ-> I've got a Raspi with a screen and a BitScope attached too
<nicomachus> Looks like Bodhi Linux didn't fix the 17.10 lenovo bug: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/7yq9r4/help_ive_bricked_3_motherboards_trying_to_install/
<JimBuntu> TJ, your KB looks like it's from the future. Is it blank or is that the lighting?
<BluesKaj> this is basically a media center with pc integration with audio spdif out to a an audio receiver and hdmi to the tv
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I bet it's nice to sit in the living room using that big screen.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: KB? keyboard?
<nicomachus> TJ-: so much WHITE
<nicomachus> makes my eyes hurt
<TJ-> BluesKaj: I find I cannot focus on programming/hacking sat on a comfy chair, I need to be in an operator/desk chair
<JimBuntu> TJ, I think it's your keyboard... between the chair and the laptop, left of the mouse.
<TJ-> nicomachus: that was the camera over-exposing; Generally the screens are mostly black / dark themed
<nicomachus> I would hope. ouch.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: It's an old Apple BT wireless keyboard A1016... beautiful smooth action
<JimBuntu> interesting TJ. I like the way it looks in the pic, basically without any symbols on it.
<TJ-> nicomachus: yes, it's those Samsung LCDs with very powerful backligts... the portrait to the right is a Dell U2412 EPS which is much better, and much cooler!
<TJ-> JimBuntu: I have 2 of them; the other is German layout, and I get /so/ lost on that since Y Z etc are swapped around!
<TJ-> Plus I find Debian/Ubuntu keyboard layouts don't exactly match them
<ducasse> i got a das keyboard pro 4 with cherry blue switches a while back, been *so* happy with it. just can't consider going back to anything but a proper mechanical keyboard now.
<nacc> ducasse: funnily enough, i also just got the same keyboard
<nacc> ducasse: i had tried a matias quite pro and had to return two of them
<nacc> for dying on me
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> nacc: you happy with yours? what switches did you get?
<nacc> ducasse: first full day using it for me, but so far so good!
<nacc> ducasse: i got the brown switches
<ducasse> so, a bit quieter than mine. i've got nobody else around me to complain about the clicking :)
<nacc> ducasse: yeah, i'm on a lot of calls
<OerHeks> please stop clicking guys
<OerHeks> :-D
<BluesKaj> TJ-, I can tell you one gets used to a comfortable chair very quickly. I also used a desk and swivel chair for a while in my den, but felt isolated there so i moved the pc into the living room and i haven't looked back. I'm retired from work and the desk/chair relationship :-)
<TJ-> BluesKaj: my problem is I'd have dogs trying to curl up on me, and I'd lean back and nod off :D
<BluesKaj> nothing wrong with nodding off ...I do it all the time, but I'm old :-)
<lotuspsychje> 1613 users in main
<TJ-> or just lots of bots logging the channel!
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: in april its gonna overload again :p
 * TJ- books a 3 month vacation ... for April!
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<OerHeks> without bouncers, 300 ?
<lotuspsychje> humans or robots, all help fill the room :p
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-21
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje_> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-donates-ubuntu-phones-to-ubports-to-continue-ubuntu-touch-development-519877.shtml
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje_> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje_> cold here today
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje_ How are you doing?
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lordievader> Yeah, indeed.
<ducasse> hi lordievader, lotuspsychje_
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje_> hey ducasse modem day :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: yep, picking it up a bit later - got to wake up first :)
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> what are you guys up to?
<lotuspsychje> bit irc before work here
<jink> Yes.
<lotuspsychje> morning jink
<jink> lotuspsychje: Why not at work?
<lotuspsychje> jink: i start at 11
<jink> I get that.  I mean the other question. :)
<lotuspsychje> its too early for riddles
<jink> Why can't you IRC at work?
<lotuspsychje> in the kitchen? lol
<jink> You work in a kitchen?
<jink> Fijn, doe maar zo. :P
<lotuspsychje> yes part time
<jink> Ok, so that won't work.
<lotuspsychje> nop :p
<ducasse> \o jink
<jink> I kind assumed this channel was full of IT nerds, with IT jobs.
<jink> Hey ducasse. :)
<jink> brb, coffee, tea.
<lotuspsychje> jink: my other job is IT
<lordievader> jink: Haven't you learned that assumptions are dangerous?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<jink> lordievader: :D
<lotuspsychje> few bionic updates again
<jink> "Ears 2.1: you can now configure your audible range."
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseSchedule
<jink> Yeah, I know. xD
<lotuspsychje> 8th march beta1
<jink> But you know, bionic.
<lotuspsychje> hi
<akik> i'm in disbelief about what canonical is planning to do with the data collection of the installation
<akik> the right way is to set it as a opt-in option, not opt-out
<ducasse> agreed, would think they'd learned from the amazon thing
<akik> they are saying it helps fix bugs faster. it took them 1.5 years to acknowledge   bug i filed about black text on black background in firefox, with the message "is this thing still a problem?"
<ducasse> :)
<TJ-> Originally we had the data collection and popcon as standard but it was dropped, possibly around 2010 due to lack of interest. Belately someone's realised we need statistics to help focus resources where they're most needed
<akik> michael tunnel was on jupiter broadcasting irc channel yesterday and we had a long discussion, me saying it's not ok and he  defending the decision
<ducasse> which packages are responsible for doing this?
<TJ-> It's proposed to be  a 1-time hardware report at install time
<akik> i read that it'll also enable popcon
<TJ-> Same place as the 'install 3rd party drivers?" question I believe
<TJ-> but for package popularity it'll be popcon I assume
<TJ-> Seems to me, SEEMS TO ME, (hehe) that popcon isn't needed! Just analyse the archive.ubuntu.com server logs and count the downloads of packages divided by the dowloads of the release files
<akik> i bet there would be enough people who want to submit this data if they ask for it
<TJ-> The hardware data is very valuable now there are so many devices out there; it would help identify firmware bug trends rapidly
<akik> * Popcon would be installed.  This will allow us to spot trends in package
<akik> usage and help us to  focus on the packages which are of most value to our
<akik> users.
<akik> and also automatic apport reports
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-wants-to-collect-some-data-from-ubuntu-users-to-improve-new-releases-519815.shtml
<lotuspsychje> feedback here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-February/040139.html
<lotuspsychje> in a bad way, this information could be exploited right?
<akik> anonymous data, when you collect it enough, tends to be not so anonymous
<lotuspsychje> i also would rather see this package as 'optional'
<lotuspsychje> leaving it to the users choice has always been my favorite way for everything
<TJ-> Back around 2006 the installer asked users to contribute by using popcon and collecting info and it felt like a positive experience; that should just be brought back
<lotuspsychje> seems like this still works: popularity-contest | less
<lotuspsychje> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuPopularityContest
<lotuspsychje> laterz
<LtWorf> does the ubuntu popcon work differently than the debian one? I remember someone telling me that the ubuntu one doesn't count uninstalls
<akik> LtWorf: don't know about the differences but this checkbox would enable popcon automatically
<akik> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-February/040170.html "If the box is left checked, then popcon would get installed.  In the normal
<akik> desktop installer there isn't an option for that any more.  There used to
<akik> be in the past, and there was an option to turn it on in Software Sources,
<akik> but that went away ages ago.  10.04 I think."
<akik> although it says popcon would be installed, i gather that it would be enabled
<akik> i have it installed on 16.04 and for sure i didn't ask for it
<LtWorf> well it's opt out no?
<akik> that's the issue
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<LtWorf> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hi LtWorf
<akik> i hope the date at the bottom here https://popcon.ubuntu.com/ is not correct
<akik> otherwise it would seem nobody's submitting anything
<LtWorf> ubuntu's popcon is not very informative, debian makes charts per package
<LtWorf> https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=python-xtermcolor
<EriC^^> hmm why is #ubuntu +r ?
<TJ-> Spam attack
<OerHeks> from #devuan .. i wonder if their ops know about this now
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<OerHeks> ay lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> friend was happy with his artful box OerHeks ?
<OerHeks> friend?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: you gave it to yourself?
<OerHeks> ehm not sure what box you talk about; i just got a free laptop
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats the one i mean
<OerHeks> spare machine that was eating dus, he also has some win7 machines waiting for an user...
<OerHeks> if i would care, i got a win7 machine...
<OerHeks> but no, this is fun, i played youtube from my bedroom this morning
<lotuspsychje> cool
<OerHeks> yes, that is why i stayed in bed after 1st coffee
<OerHeks> brrrrrrrrr
<lotuspsychje> -4 today here
<lotuspsychje> got tears in my eyes from riding my bike
<hggdh> and here (Dallas, TX) we dropped around 18C from yesterday to today
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> thats freezing hggdh
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: it is... today is around 0C :-)
<hggdh> in the capital of the influenza...
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: you guys have this every year such colds?
<lotuspsychje> those are siberian temps oO
<hggdh> not quite normal. Usually we get some sub-freezing spells (this year we reached around -9C for a few days)
<lotuspsychje> thats cold enough already brrr
<hggdh> but most of the times it is between +6C to +15C
<lotuspsychje> we never get more then -5 in belgium
<lotuspsychje> yeah like 20 years ago i walked on the sea once
<hggdh> on the other hand, apart from a bit of snow dusting once this winter, no snow, no icy rain. So far
<lotuspsychje> good, we dont need that :p
<lotuspsychje> we had 1 night snow
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys tv time
<OerHeks> bing .. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dsBBS7G8hb/
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here, -4 again this morning
<lordievader> Yeah, appearantly the weekend will be brutal.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hggdh said they have -18 in texas
<lotuspsychje> weather app says -7 monday
<lordievader> Brr
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - how's life today?
<lotuspsychje> great here mate
<lotuspsychje> still snowing there ducasse
<ducasse> no, not any more, thankfully
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader - i'm fine, thanks, planning a trip out to have dinner and see a movie tonight. how are you?
<lordievader> Sounds nice, what movie?
<lordievader> I'm doing allright.
<ducasse> a norwegian one, a comedy. it's a remake of a classic norwegian comedy, so might be fun.
<jink> How are we ever going to find it?
<jink> "A movie, about something, might be fun."
<ducasse> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt7597486/
<lordievader> ducasse: Have fun ð
<jink> :D
<EriC^^> morning all
<jink> Morning, EriC^^.
<ducasse> hi EriC^^
<akik> not sure if serious: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/popularity-contest/+bug/493852 "The goal of popularity-contest not only collect what packages are installed, but also determine what packages were recently used. In order to do so, It checks what files are currently open and scans last access time for files belonging to installed packages."
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 493852 in popularity-contest (Ubuntu) "popularity-contest will stat() every file installed file or ~80k files on my system which grinds things to a halt" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ducasse> that's pretty horrible
<akik> although that's a 5 year old report
<akik> still open
<akik> here's a newer one from 14.04 :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/popularity-contest/+bug/1510996
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1510996 in popularity-contest (Ubuntu) "Popularity-contest consumes 100% CPU" [Undecided,New]
<TJ-> akik: That's how it works, popularity-contest is a Perl script that determines the most recently used (MRU) file in each package. It's triggered by a cron.daily job
<TJ-> I'm pretty sure that'll need reworking for Ubuntu if the plan goes ahead
<akik> i have little hope about this system helping development if bugs related to the popularity contest are kept open with seemingly no progress
<akik> it'll just bring in heeps of data in which the developers will drown
<TJ-> It's because it's a Debian package for Debian usage so it's not been touched much since we stopped using it actively about 8 years ago
<TJ-> Looks like the stats graphs need regenerating... can't make out the dates and looks like the last time it was generated wa 2016
<akik> wouldn't it be enough to see which packages the user installs after the initial install?
<akik> scanning the whole file system is idiotic
<TJ-> That made sense when Debian created it in the early 2000s but not now
<TJ-> when we maybe had 50 packages installed :)
<TJ-> It'd be much better to simply attach a kprobe to the kernel's exec*() functions and log the path of the executed binaries
<TJ-> And use the archive.ubuntu.com server logs to monitor the actual packages installed
<akik> yea :)
<akik> that package installation logs are _already_ there
<TJ-> Have you looked at the popcon graph? it looks like someone's been spamming fake results at it: architecture names include "34d64", "Here", and "ZX_Spectrum"
<akik> i looked into it yesterday
<akik> saw that 2016 at the bottom
<akik> i see
<akik> some improvement needed
<TJ-> I suspect no-one actually looked at what the package does and how it behaves.
<TJ-> I'm going to see if I can put together a simple, no-impact, systemtap probe to record the executables
<TJ-> We seem to already have the tooling in-place, try this please: "sudo execsnoop"
<akik> not installed, no thanks
<TJ-> Oh, it's just me because I've been doing kernel debugging. Darm
<TJ-> it's much more lightweight that popcon though
<akik> which package does that come from?
<TJ-> perf-tools
<TJ-> it uses the kernel FTRACE (function trace) mechanism to record all execve() calls
<TJ-> I think popularity-contest could be improved dramatically. Currently it checks for file-access times for *every* file in every installed packaged using foreach ("$dpkg_db/$pkg.list", glob("$dpkg_db/$pkg:*.list"))
<akik> :)
<TJ-> I would think that could be changed to simply monitor the executable files from PATH and then identify which package contains each exectuable using 'dpkg -S /path/to/execeutable'
<TJ-> And with a delay within the while() loop it wouldn't consume CPU
<akik> dpkg -S is a bit intensive to be run on a per file basis
<TJ-> Not if run on the server. On the client all it needs to do is report a summary count of how many times each executable was used
<TJ-> The server could keep an in-memory hashmap which would make the lookup trivial
<TJ-> If instead of submitting daily the submission only occurred when X bytes of data have been collected that would also randomise the load on the popcon server - currently the code tries to take server load into account
<akik> just to make clear, i'm totally against this new data collection
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> morning, BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<BluesKaj> ducasse, my son and I are going to install anew mobo and an i5cpu on this pc> What's your experience with legacy mode on UEFI, will it boot a  msdos table ?
<BluesKaj> any ifo about such a setup would be helpful
<BluesKaj> info
<TJ-> BluesKaj: yes, it will
<ducasse> i haven't really used legacy mode on uefi systems, i just install in uefi mode.
<TJ-> BluesKaj: you can pre-test it with a custom USB key to prove it if you want to be 100% sure
<BluesKaj> cool TJ- thanks ...I have all my valuable data backed up to 2 different computers, just to be safe
<BluesKaj> valuable data being family pics, fav music and movies etc
<ducasse> better safe than sorry
<BluesKaj> yup
<BluesKaj> anyway it should be an interesting exericise
<ducasse> what kind of mobo did you get?
<BluesKaj> my son got a good deal on a MSI Z370-A Pro
<BluesKaj> plus an i5 8400 cpu, 8G crucial Ram,and aEVGA 600W PSU
<BluesKaj> he wanted to get more Ram , but i thought 8G is plenty for my needs
<ducasse> sounds good
<BluesKaj> he's rebuilt several pcs ...this will be my first
<ducasse> you'll have fun, then :)
<BluesKaj> he says that MSI has received false unjust bad publicity about their products...he hasn't any problems with their mobos...ever
<BluesKaj> yeah , it should be fun
<ducasse> i've mostly used asus boards, no experience with msi myself
<BluesKaj> right, we considered an asus board , but msi deal was too good to pass up
<JimBuntu> I have had issues with MSI and Asus MBs. I would say that since I was a builder/maintainer for long enough that I have probably seen issues with all brands we ever purchased. Overall, I agree that MSI has taken a lot of what appears to be disproportionate hate from people buying the cheapest boards and expecting higher quality or longer life spans.
<JimBuntu> While it's not always the case, a mobo that costs 4 times as much, at least had the finances behind it for the manufacturer to have used higher quality/fresher components, run more rigorous testing and could afford more QA on the built products.
<JimBuntu> I had a batch of CPUs that we could only get to show their fault by using them in a flight simulator... vendor didn't want to exchange/return them so I had to drive the lot of them back to them and show them the issue and how they otherwise passed all of our testing. Once they saw it, no more hassle.
<TJ-> I recall something similar with one of my guys discovering some weird issue and having to prove it to distributor; this was back around 2002
<JimBuntu> TJ-, this would have been around the same time, +/- a couple years.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: be ironic if it were the same batch :D ... maybe you got ours, or we got yours!
<JimBuntu> TJ-, lol. It's possible, or that we were getting them from the same manufacturing LOT. I'm sure their LOT sizes were bigger than our distributors. I'm trying to remember if it was a Pentium or an AMD K2 series, pretty sure it was a Pentium flavor.
<JimBuntu> After a quick check, I'm fairly certain it was a K6-III as it wasn't a slot processor... oh do I remember how much $ I spent on my K7 Athlon
<TJ-> Back then we were using AMD only, their CPUs were so much better.
<TJ-> I've still got an Asus A7D266 with dual socket AMD Athlon 2000 MPs running as one of my legacy forensics servers
<JimBuntu> I was always on the fence... it was always a tossup, spend more money for more reliability or go cheaper and spend that money on something else. I bought the Athlon on like day 2 that it was available though, so I paid quite a bit and it actually worked great, even wound up with the overclock device that could be slid onto it
<JimBuntu> If I dig around enough, I should still have a dual Pentium Pro machine laying around somewhere. I don't leave these older beasts running, they simply hold the floor down for me.
<TJ-> or just a graphite pencil rubbed over the traces :)
<JimBuntu> TJ-,  yeah? I had never heard of doing that for the Athlon or at least I don't remember. THe add-on board was pretty inexpensive
<TJ-> here it is! http://computer-communication.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/unlocking-duron-and-athlon-using-pencil_08.html
<TJ-> basically joining exposed links
<JimBuntu> That's hilarious!
<TJ-> That's true hacking :)
<JimBuntu> I know I still have the Athlon itself in it's custom Aluminium case... unsure if I kept the mb
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-23
<TJ-> !secure
<TJ-> !security
<ubot5> Security Updates are dealt with here:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Security - See also !root, !firewall, !server, and !usn
<TJ-> !firewall
<ubot5> Ubuntu, like any other Linux distribution, has built-in firewall capabilities. The firewall is managed using the 'ufw' command - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW | GUI frontends such as gufw and ufw-kde also exist. | An alternative to ufw is the 'iptables' command - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IptablesHowTo
<TJ-> !ports
<ubot5> For instructions on how to set up port-forwarding (for games, torrents, webservers) see http://portforward.com - also see !firewall
<TJ-> !hardened
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> 68mb bionic updates
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.10.11 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> popcon is being configged lol
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<lotuspsychje> how are you today?
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Doing allright here, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx
<lotuspsychje> just had breakfast
<lotuspsychje> almost weekend :p
<lordievader> Hahaha
<lordievader> Indeed
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lordievader> Any plans for today? lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yes, work come home and chill on tv
<lordievader> Sounds nice :)
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje, lordievader - how are you guys?
<lotuspsychje> brb reboot
<lotuspsychje> Linux R00TBOOK 4.15.0-10-generic #11-Ubuntu SMP Tue Feb 13 18:23:35 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<lotuspsychje> !info popularity-contest bionic
<ubot5> popularity-contest (source: popularity-contest): Vote for your favourite packages automatically. In component main, is standard. Version 1.66ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 33 kB, installed size 118 kB
<ducasse> has popcon been added to bionic yet, lotuspsychje?
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: yep
<lotuspsychje_> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ apt-cache policy popularity-contest
<lotuspsychje_> popularity-contest:
<lotuspsychje_>   GeÃ¯nstalleerd: 1.66ubuntu1
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: but i dont find some settings for it in gnome
<ducasse> nothing in the privacy section?
<lotuspsychje_> ducasse: checked there, no
<ducasse> probably not added yet
<lotuspsychje_> think so
<lotuspsychje_> !info popularity-contest xenial
<ubot5> popularity-contest (source: popularity-contest): Vote for your favourite packages automatically. In component main, is standard. Version 1.64ubuntu2 (xenial), package size 32 kB, installed size 115 kB
<lotuspsychje_> seems like added on xenial aswell for the upgrade
<lotuspsychje_> work time, have a nice1 guys
<immu> ducasse, HI
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) Welcome to weekend support .
<lotuspsychje> tnx Bashing-om :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Maybe get the high waders on as maybe gets deep :P
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> -5 here monday -7
<ducasse> morning, lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<tomreyn> hehe, i'm not sure i would buy servcies from an ISP whose domain name is getinternet.no
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> bbl tv time
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om ty
<ducasse> good morning
<JimBuntu> g'morn ducasse
<ducasse> \o
<lotuspsychje> good sunday to all
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse how are you mate
<lotuspsychje> its gonna be lazy day here today
<ducasse> good here, thanks, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine & cold :p
<lotuspsychje> pancakes, tv & irc
<ducasse> cold here as well, no snow today
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: glad it stopped
<ducasse> never mind, it seems it just started again :(
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> one for you https://www.deviantart.com/art/Arch-Linux-i3wm-NumixSolarizedDarkGreen-732226799
<lotuspsychje> bbl tv time
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-17
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Morning ducasse, how are you?
<ducasse> lordievader: all good, thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<oerheks> hi lotusw lordievader ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<lordievader> Heho oerheks
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<oerheks> just testing some cantor tool.
<oerheks> funny request from #u
<pragmaticenigma> !headless
<lotuspsychje> !nogui
<Bashing-om> UWN618 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue618 :D
<pragmaticenigma> damn, in all the time the blender has spent on this today... he could have found a monitor for that thing and been done and installed already
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: he's homeless
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: but I did suggest going to a somewhat local makerspace and asking for help
<pragmaticenigma> hmm
<pragmaticenigma> guess I will need to read up on why this is a priority for them
<daftykins> challenging circumstances?
<pragmaticenigma> not being insensitive... but if it were me... I'd be more focused on trying to find a job and a place to live. Then setting up a computer
<oerheks> it can be a good way to stay out of trouble
<pragmaticenigma> that's true
<daftykins> yeah we know someone like that in another channel, he'd speak of getting external monitors to game on and stuff whilst living in some kind of shared accomodation... seemed to keep breaking his laptops every month or three
<pragmaticenigma> gofio or something?
<daftykins> username? nah
<pragmaticenigma> gofio always seemd to be trying to make some acient computer come back to life with Ubuntu
<pragmaticenigma> at least that's what I'm thinking of
<pragmaticenigma> maybe combining two personas
<daftykins> hehe, urgh true necromancy
<pragmaticenigma> right?
<oerheks> i have more issues with fedora 31 users lying about running ubuntu
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> i'd love to see the response when given an APT command
<pragmaticenigma> They think they can translate... but you really can't
<daftykins> always fun when they out themselves though :)
<pragmaticenigma> time for dinner and tv...ttfn
<oerheks> :-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-18
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> #ubuntu , the trivia channel :p
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: a littlee help with kimmy please?
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: which is why I pinged the !ot on them... they do this daily
<oerheks> yes, this dude is regular
<pragmaticenigma> mm hmm
<pragmaticenigma> and they really weren't looking for help... they post links and bait them like that to get people to look at it
<oerheks> not clicking bitcoin pdf
<oerheks> grinn
<pragmaticenigma> Less you want to be co-opted into some bitcoin mining
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> we need a !clickbate instead of !danger these days
<pragmaticenigma> !danger
<ubot5> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<oerheks> carefull with URLs given in this channel. paste.ubuntu.com uses no JS.
<oerheks> *hips*
 * oerheks putting sandwiches/cheese on the grill
<lotuspsychje> good idea oerheks
<pragmaticenigma> I'm assuming the VPn is because they're setting up a seedbox
<pragmaticenigma> Most links I open in Tor browser, if only to avoid someone easily pulling my IP address
<pragmaticenigma> and it has JS blocking enabled
<pragmaticenigma> Us: Would you like that in Black or Gold Aadam? Aadam: Yes
<oerheks> :-P
<oerheks> i want to write .. tell me
<pragmaticenigma> I'm guessing he's one of those trying to make a quick buck at the ol' link farm types
<pragmaticenigma> We need tutorials so we can load the page up with thousands of adverts
<ducasse> why create a wiki on something you don't know how to do?
<oerheks> cookies!
<pragmaticenigma> because they think that somehow everyone will flock to their "no fun" christian proxying service
<pragmaticenigma> I'm surprised they allow Ubuntu and Arch... they have demons.. err, I mean daemons in them
<oerheks> yeah
<oerheks> a system deamon
<oerheks> systemd
<Ussat> well, look, systemD is pretty evil.....
<Ussat> maby not THE devil, but
<Ussat> and I am pretty sure Lennart hasd performed a black mass or two
<Ussat> has
<leftyfb> oerheks: "<oerheks> such upgrade path is not supported" huh? That is the most supported upgrade path there is. LTS -> LTS
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: I think the comment was based on the failure that occurred during the update, and being able to recover the limbo state?
<oerheks> leftyfb, on AWS?
<oerheks> just got back from cooking diner
<leftyfb> Oh right, that Iâm not sure of
<leftyfb> They use their AMI images right?
<oerheks> yes, also i suggested ##aws
<oerheks> vpn and vps upgrades, specialist support
<pragmaticenigma> vielfarbig: I am unable to reproduce your seg-fault in an instance of Ubuntu running as a host
<pragmaticenigma> vielfarbig: what ever is causing the seg fault... has to do with the environment that you have setup
<vielfarbig> pragmaticenigma: Have you tried it with Ubuntu 18.04 as a ltsp 2019 client
<vielfarbig> pragmaticenigma: On the Ubuntu 18.04 host I also not get a segfault
<pragmaticenigma> right, which would mean that something in the host environment for Ubuntu (ltsp 2019 in your case) is causing the behavior... not ubuntu
<vielfarbig> pragmaticenigma: Do you know how i can determine the cause of this segfault? I've tried to debug it with gdb, apport-bug and strace, but I had no success
<pragmaticenigma> vielfarbig: I suspect the debugger has to be implemented in the ltsp environment
<vielfarbig> pragmaticenigma: So all tools from the host system are basically available, but e. g. "gdb sudo /bin/echo Test" says that the core was not dumped and with "list" inside gdb i says that no symbol table was found
<pragmaticenigma> vielfarbig: I'm not an expert in this sort of stuff... There's so much going on with STDOUT, STDIN, STDERR going here... I don't know how things are sent to those I/Os when sudo is requesting passwords
<sarnold> sudo should be opening the terminal device directly
<vielfarbig> Ok. So I've read that one can see the called syscalls with strace, but with "strace sudo /bin/echo Test" the Segfault did not throw but the exit status is 1
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic eoan
<ubot5> Package linux-image-generic does not exist in eoan
<lotuspsychje> interesting facts: https://ubuntu.com/blog/design-and-web-team-summary-14-february-2020
<leftyfb> "JordiGH> And let's tell HN about this."   who is HN?
<pragmaticenigma> hacker news
<leftyfb> :/
<leftyfb> lame
<pragmaticenigma> y-combinator ... i don't even know who reads that anymore
<pragmaticenigma> I took it off my feed lists when all it was doing is repeating everything that came in through slashdot
<pragmaticenigma> and ars
<leftyfb> oh, found another way of disabling it. sed -i "s/ENABLED=1/ENABLED=0/" /etc/default/motd-news
<pragmaticenigma> oh yeah
<pragmaticenigma> that works too
<sarnold> this is my favourite way to read HN http://n-gate.com/
<pragmaticenigma> interesting
<pragmaticenigma> looks like a kindergarten home page
<sarnold> lol
<xln> Quick q. Whats the current situation with grub and luks2
<pragmaticenigma> wasn't aware there was a situation
<oerheks> As of January 10th 2020, GRUB supports LUKS2 https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/commit/?id=365e0cc3e7e44151c14dd29514c2f870b49f9755
<xln> Any ideas if that exists in 19.10 ?
<oerheks> cryptsetup 2.0in 19.10 ?
<oerheks> you can look that up on launchpad
<xln> thanks :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-19
<pragmaticenigma> sarnold: a link to a russian site? yeah... don't think that was their output either
<sarnold> pragmaticenigma: yeah..
<pragmaticenigma> I think we have a troll
<pragmaticenigma> or someone without a clue... I'm out for the night... ttfn
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<pragmaticenigma> I don't even know where to begin with Manny... that's all over the palce
<lotuspsychje> its that time again..
<pragmaticenigma> They're going to be in for a rude awakening when they find out 32 bit installs are no longer supported with Ubuntu
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: that is not true
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: There are no images for 20.04
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: there are not images for 19.10 either. That doesn't mean it's not supported.
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: I said 32 bit installs... not 32 bit support .. big difference there
<leftyfb> though it's funny, they still created a broken link for i386 for 19.10 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/19.10/
<leftyfb> little annoyed that they don't even make an initrd for it
<leftyfb> that'll be a fun project for me. ... see if I can make one up myself
<pragmaticenigma> I just switched to a different distro ... MX Linux has been working well for my older machines (and took care of a really annoying display issue I was having with a laptop)
<Toast> Hi, I just followed Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019 and have feedback. The page pointed me here.
<Toast> There were a number of paths like in this line: cryptsetup open ${DEV}p1 LUKS_BOOT
<Toast> ${DEV}p1 <---- I found that I had to remove the p from this an other lines like it. This was for the p1 and p5 examples.
<Toast> Other than that, everything seems to have worked.
<sarnold> it does depend upon which kind of device if the 'p' is needed
<jeremy31> I think only nvme uses p
<daftykins> yeah
<sarnold> brw-rw---- 1 root disk 259,   3 Jan 28 16:27 /dev/md126p1
<sarnold> etc
<daftykins> ah applies to mdraid member disks too?
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<nedR> lotuspsychje, haha i said all i needed to say at this point.. just icewm is awesome... didn't try lxde/xfce which is whole window manager.. oh ya another correction.. last week i believe i i said benchmarks showed lxde as having high input lag and xfce as low..  i got it mixed up.. lxde is the one with low input lag... but icewm seems to be even lower
<nedR> lxde xfce is *whole desktop environment
<lotuspsychje> nedR: did you install preload & haveged aswell?
<lotuspsychje> and stacer
<nedR> lotuspsychje, err no.. why?
<lotuspsychje> to boost your system even more
<nedR> lotuspsychje, oh no yeah you did mention... i forgot.. no i will check those out definitely thanks again
<nedR> "preload, haveged, bleachbit, stacer, tweak startup items, tweak system services," is what you said
<lotuspsychje> yep
<nedR> so many tools to look up, hehe, its exciting.. already know bleachbit tho
<nedR> Another persistent problem in linux is that filled ram causes a crash at all in the first place...  i have allocated 7gb swap space but it barely uses that.. usually when systems goes below 50mb free, the whole system locks up with little to know recourse
<nedR> seems a long-running bug... or does it just happen to me
<daftykins> how much RAM are we talking? never once seen someone have issues
<nedR> daftykins, very low - 4gb ram
<daftykins> hmm not sure why you would do that to yourself :D
<nedR> maybe ppl with high ram don't notice the bug
<lotuspsychje> nedr is a linux gamer daftykins :p
<daftykins> not on 4GB you're not
<nedR> linux lowspec gamer... i tux on hard mode :D
<daftykins> that swap is definitely turned on, right o0
<daftykins> please say it's not an HDD install too?
<nedR> 5400 most likely.. 10 year old laptop running core2duo intel gma
<nedR> :D
<daftykins> why keep using it?
<nedR> old pc died , between situations currently
<nedR> all you guys are about saving the planet and greta thunenberg and all that but when some one tries to use 10 year old pc the question 100% of time is why
<lotuspsychje> 10y old pc's consume alot of energy :p
<oerheks> i think it is good to use old hardware, i run a vista-capable desktop
<daftykins> yep, gotta cut out inefficiency
<nedR> its a laptop... seems to be a regular old adapter.
<lotuspsychje> ask an ssd for your birthday nedR
<nedR> u know very well that most of a electronics items lifetimes co2 happens during manufacture and shipping.. stop justify buying new crap all the time!!
<nedR> lotuspsychje, haha yeah .. but need a new computer overall anyway
<daftykins> you come in here with problems on decade old equipment, i'm going to state what i believe in
<oerheks> to save â¬2/month by buying new low energy hardware, no
<daftykins> please don't bring up an attitude in here
<daftykins> it's about a hell of a lot more than that, intel abandoned the core 2 range from getting any microcode fixes for the big design issues revealed over the last couple of years
<nedR> lol ya i was half-joking, but maybe other half not so much.. actually been using linux on off over 10 years.. linux is not exactly power-efficient
<oerheks> if i was scares, i would jump to Ryzen
<nedR> doesn't linux version get the patches?
<daftykins> oerheks: from core 2's? that doesn't make any sense
<daftykins> core 2 didn't get microcode mitigations at all, nor the first 2 or 3 generations of core series
<nedR> this is from 2010 i think ... might be the last of them.. will google
 * oerheks runs IntelÂ® Coreâ¢ i3 CPU 530 @ 2.93GHz Ã 4
<daftykins> it's not important
<nedR> but ya over 10 years... ppl always say buy new hardware, chuck your junk... but os should be about 'do more with less ' not other way round
<nedR> this laptop actually works better than my previous 'better' nvidia optimus ones lol
<daftykins> well if you want to try and begin a one-man fight against all developers to try and undo their ways of making new things chunkier, go for it - but i don't think you have a chance :)
<daftykins> hybrid graphics ones were always a pain to deal with under Linux yeah, not a lot of surprise it's easier to manage
<nedR> gnome does quite well actually on this hw all things considered... not complaining on that front...
<daftykins> i think people have wildly different perceptions of what running well is, i bet a single youtube browser tab brings that thing to its' knees :)
<daftykins> anyway i suppose i should feel lucky that you're not trying to fight for 32-bit in here
<nedR> well since i game on linux, i did fight for that before lol.. when ubuntu tried to ditch 32-bit support
<daftykins> slightly different
<nedR> daftykins, not really.. u would be surprised.. its not that bad.. i do have to close and open firefox/chrome if the ram dangerously approaches full.. hell vlc allows me to play x265 videos without issue even :D (seeking may take some time though)
<nedR> So does noone have the ram/swap bug? or do you not face it because your ram never gets full?
<daftykins> no there's no way a core 2 is playing HEVC content fine
<nedR> i guess my eyes must be lying to me then... :DD
<daftykins> i really think something is wrong with your swap setup, it should take the pressure off that surely
<daftykins> unless it's a super low resolution HEVC file :P
<nedR> i had this issue on my previous laptop too... so i dont think its just me.. u r saying that ur system uses swap fine? mine barely uses 10-20% at  the most... right now i am at 85% ram used, 2% swap used for example
<nedR> daftykins, 720p mostly, i think i have had 1080p high quality files too but bit longer to load i think.. vlc really is amazing... initilaly even my previous newer laptop had issues with it...
<lotuspsychje> try smplayer its even lighter use
<daftykins> on a c2d you'd be stuck at software decode only for HEVC so that'd be pretty taxing
<nedR> will check it out thanks... ofc hw acceleration for x265 is key..
<daftykins> maybe some processes aren't the kind that can be shifted into swap, or maybe the vm.swappiness variable should be checked
<nedR> i dunno how vlc does it.. i think it buffers longer to make up for slow cpu.. cuz seeking is slow depending on file ... couple of seconds
<daftykins> probably just slower to sync from the previous keyframe
<nedR> what is ur average swap usage? does it go above 1gb swap used say?
<daftykins> i'm not on a Linux desktop today
<nedR> ah ok.. searching online ppl do complain of this problem.. but i dont know if its for everybody (which i suspect) or just few users..
<nedR> https://askubuntu.com/questions/41778/computer-freezing-on-almost-full-ram-possibly-disk-cache-problem
<daftykins> see the reference to vm.swappiness as i mentioned above
<nedR> my swapiness is default 60
<oerheks> without HW specs, that post is pretty .. useless
<daftykins> oerheks: my thoughts too
<oerheks> ond the golden rule of thumb: if you cannot recreate the issue with a fresh install..
<nedR> i had this issue on previous laptop too.. and i always setup swap when installing ubuntu...
<nedR> it was fresh install
<nedR> shall i try swapiness of 10.. ? recommending by ubuntu wiki?
<lotuspsychje> nedR: dont tweak swappiness on a spinner and 4gb ram
<oerheks> there are no white-spot issues anymore to do that.
<nedR> lotuspsychje, ok.. ya it seems not the issue.. i dunno i used windows before on previous craptop.. but windows never seems to get itself to point of 100% non-responsiveness due to full memory
<lotuspsychje> nedR: can you pastebin an inxi -F of your system?
<nedR> ok will do...
<nedR> lotuspsychje, https://pastebin.com/vWqGE1ga .. removed some info if u dont mind : https://pastebin.com/vWqGE1ga
<lotuspsychje> intel mobile graphics oof..
<nedR> imagine gaming on that :D
<Ussat> solitare
<lotuspsychje> lol
<nedR> https://askubuntu.com/a/1045919 I think this might the problem and solution... the way it happens to me.. linux seems to wait until way too late to swap out stuff then gets stuck in endless loop of swapping in and out of RAM/HDD ... sometimes waiting 10-20 minutes allows enough responsiveness to manually kill some process..
<lotuspsychje> !swap | nedR
<ubot5> nedR: swap is used to move unused programs and data out of main memory to make your system faster. It can also be used as extra memory if you don't have enough. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq for more info
<nedR> i am aware of what swap is.. but way i experience it... once ram goes below 50mb there is very little chance of system recovering... and by then 90%+ of swap is completely one used.. just my feeling on matter.. i will try out the fix
<nedR> swap is completely *unused
<nedR> i can play cs 1.6, terraria (now), stardew valley, gta 3 , games like that on linux
<lotuspsychje> gta3 on intel mobile graphics?
<daftykins> sure, it came out on the PS2 originally
<nedR> yep.. gta 3 is like the first 3d gta
<nedR> gta games of that era are very optimized for low-end systems, vice city, san andreas..
<daftykins> not a term i would use xD
<nedR> which term?
<daftykins> optimisation on PC ports :D
<nedR> haha.. i dunno.. either way, those games always used to run decently on underpowered systems
<daftykins> speedruns of those are pretty amusing if you've not checked them out
<nedR> You know its not just me and my craptop though... gamers are always looking for that extra edge... if linux can provide extra fps to them.. then gamers will seriously consider linux.. rocket league gamers break their back to get extra fps (and lower latency) on their top-end systems
<nedR> majority of  DEs though seem to be not as good as windows on average though for input lag/fps from the benchmarks i have seen , anyway
<nedR> gnome , lxde seems to do well
<pragmaticenigma> nedR: that statement completely ignores the archetectual differences between platforms
<nedR> pragmaticenigma, true.. but my statement is  based on a rough survey of different benchmarks from different ppl running different platforms
<nedR> there is definitely huge variability in results, but some overall patterns/trends can be noticed
<pragmaticenigma> I think you're also forgetting ... PCs where designed to be productive, not entertainment. Linux comes from a long line of distros that have had the focus on productivity and serving. Entertainment is secondary and an after thought. Therefor, with a GUI, the purpose was driven more towards an office worker, not a gamer.
<pragmaticenigma> Newer GUIs are attempting to make bridges to increase productivity by allowing actions that normally would require launching an entire program, to be contained in something smaller
<pragmaticenigma> most of what you have said so far is completely anecdotal. Also, the games your looking at were written to work with a Windows based PC... you're going to take a performance hit running it in Linux, because there are compatibility layers written to get it to execute. With that, there will always be reduced performance just from the way the game is being run. Not even considering the desktop gui being used.
<pragmaticenigma> nedR: There is a reason that Steam choose Debian 8 over Ubuntu for their Steam OS platform... I'd start your researching there
<nedR> pragmaticenigma, well ya obviously windows games are expected to run better on windows... i was comparing linux native to windows native..
<nedR> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/cii545/linux_input_lag_analysis_v26des_windows_10_1809/ https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-8400-desktops&num=5  https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/c0ly6b/linux_input_lag_analysis7des_tested_windows/ These are some examples i was talking about
<nedR> This one is more mixed, KDE vs gnome seem indistinguishable : https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=bionic-kde-gnome&num=4
<nedR> This one completely flips it tho : https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=gaming-desktop-eoy2018&num=2 .. seems wayland has gotten very good recently.. and differences between DEs is almost indistinguishable
<nedR> Yeah, my point was with steam/proton linux has a really chance to attract desktop users, since linux is so configurable... we just need linux devs to give more attention.. and new benchmarks seem to indicate that they are
<pragmaticenigma> All of these are generalizations
<nedR> well yeah, surveys and benchmarks and overall opinions are generalizations.. individual results will be different
<nedR> On this "Newer GUIs are attempting to make bridges to increase productivity by allowing actions that normally would require launching an entire program, to be contained in something smaller" ... don't want to get into this but, i felt i could do more with older DEs gnome 2 , unity than i do today but thats my 2 cents :)
<nedR> don't want to start a war there :D
<pragmaticenigma> I don't like the paradigm of DEs today. I hate when the DE tries to employ a feature that I used a program in the past for
<nedR> pragmaticenigma, preach bro
<nedR> i have felt that way with ubuntu over 10 years...  everytime i update my distro i feel a need to change my workflow :/ it can be pretty stressful...
<lotuspsychje> evolution
<Ussat> whats a DE :) all of my nix systems are servers with cli only
<pragmaticenigma> I plan on giving GnomeShell a shot here... but I'm tempted to just keep moving more toward LXDE
<nedR> lotuspsychje, but its a huge mental load.. relearning shortcuts , commands.. and if the changes were one direction for the better i could understand.. but it feels very schizophrenic overall
<nedR> ubuntu will swap from rhythmbox to clementine.. then back again..
<lotuspsychje> nothing a purge cant fix
<nedR> you mean purge like install or purge like the movie... if the latter , i agree :D
<pragmaticenigma> nedR: That's just the default set of apps being installed... nothing prevents you from installing the application of your choice and removing what you don't want
<lotuspsychje> you can tweak any Os the way you like
<daftykins> if you can't adapt to change in your OS, i have bad news for you xD
<pragmaticenigma> and if having all that installed by default is a problem... it's why I intall via mini.iso... get the base Ubuntu going first... then install the DE, and programs I desire
<Ussat> ^^^
<Ussat> so much that
<nedR> pragmaticenigma, yeah in that case i was like "rhythmbox - weird- okay i will try it out" , "oh clementine fine i will give it a shot, maybe its better" "Rhythmbox again... sonofabi..."
<nedR> i just use vlc now
<oerheks> "ubuntu looks bloated"  .. i laugh when i read that
<nedR> which file managers do you guys use...
<lotuspsychje> good ol nautilus
<oerheks> nautilus and some plugins
<pizzaiolo> nautilus++
<nedR> nautilus - recursive search on type ; thunar no recursive search (and the extension is annoying)... is there anything with sane defaults that does both like nautilus used to in gnome2
<nedR> oh is there something that brings back the old search behaviour of gnome2 nautilus?
<oerheks> 'sane defaults'...?
<oerheks> you make things up, what is wrong with nautilus in gnome3?
<nedR> for me that would be nautilus on gnome 2
<lotuspsychje> https://www.deviantart.com/search?q=lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> some progress over the years
<nedR> noice
<lotuspsychje> earliest was on an amd 3200+ with 4gb ram and ati x800
<nedR> i properly started out on ubuntu 10.04 (or was it 11.04?) the last one with gnome2.. everything felt just perfect on that, battery life better than windows, ui better than windows, just better .. then unity came and for some reason and some major kernel regression coupled with optimus woes that caused my laptop to overheat and die (i had one of those faulty nvidia gpus that would die on overheating, yay)..  unity was laggy and broke lot of stuff but
<nedR> over time i l really liked the ui innovations and by the time i learnt to love unity,   then ubuntu went ahead and killed that too :(
<ducasse> nedR: unity is still available in the repos, although it's in a sort of maintenance mode
<nedR> ducasse, ya, i know, it seems more trouble than its worth at this point to get it up and running.. especially on my current laptop...
<pragmaticenigma> unity was okay... I didn't understand it's purpose, and even less now that it's on the community to support it
<nedR> pragmaticenigma, i liked the menu bar thing a lot... the way it saved vertical space.. and typing to search menu commands too..
<pragmaticenigma> unless I'm mistaken... Gnome-Shell has the same features
<nedR> via extensions u mean? i dunno i had some issues with that when i looked into it before.. does anyone use them now?
<pragmaticenigma> I guess I don't know what you define as "menu bar"
<nedR> i mean the title bar, menu bar, and the top unity bar were all combined into 1
<nedR> and you could search commands by typing alt
<nedR> menu commands
<lotuspsychje> gnome-panel?
<nedR> lotuspsychje, is that what the top bar is called? yeah
<lotuspsychje> unity had the choice to see menu items in window or the panel, is that what you mean?
<pragmaticenigma> nedR: the merging of the application menu into the top bar of the DE was a gnome-shell feature first. It was later dropped because app developers didn't appreciate their menu's being stripped out of the applications where people where accustomed to finding them
<lotuspsychje> or you mean gnome2 style panel with items on?
<pragmaticenigma> the same argument the developers are using in asking DEs to stop skinning their icons
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: He's talking about the top bar, where the time and notifications are displayed.
<pragmaticenigma> When you launched some applications, the "File, Edit, etc" menu drawers were relocated into to the DEs top bar
<nedR> yes.. everything on 1 bar instead of 4... really appreciated that feature ,  especially on firefox
<nedR> and also the alt + type menu command... you could do a lot with gui applications without taking hand off keyboard
<nedR> i will try again to get those gnome extensions if they're there now
<nedR> Unite gnome extension seems to do this...
<nedR> sortof...
<nedR> not as well as unity tho... sigh
<nedR> ok i gonna keep searching.. thanks for putting up with my talk/rant
<oerheks> no no i love a good argument
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> 1 or 1000
<Ussat> Well.......lets see, politics/religion/chocolate & penut butter or penut butter and chocolate
<Ussat> coke or pepsi
<Ussat> :)
<lotuspsychje> forbidden Ussat only ubuntu here :p
<oerheks> yum
<Ussat> apt or apt-get :)
<oerheks> a snap that transforms appimage/flatpak
<sarnold> peanut butter and chocolate, good idea
<TJ-> Can anyone recommend a known-good dual-band 802.11a(c) mini PCI-e that uses fully open drivers (presumably Atheros or Intel) for upgrading an old (2007) laptop? Chipset model code is what I'm after
<leftyfb> Atheros aren't open source
<oerheks> i would standard say intel, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005511/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html
<oerheks> good list, with supported kernels
<TJ-> I've had a lot of issues with bugs in the iwlwifi drivers over the last 2 years or so with various different Intel chipsets so considering an alternative
<TJ-> leftyfb: The ath9k driver is fully open-source and doesn't require a firmware blob , e.g. AR5BXB112 (AR9380)
<leftyfb> TJ-: ah, not the ath10k
<TJ-> leftyfb: right; we've got a bunch of 2007 Asus laptops I just want to add 802.11a (5GHz) access to (currently 2.4GHz only)
<TJ-> I'm hoping to order a sample tonight so it arrives tomorrow and if it works we can buy a bunch of them
<oerheks> oh, one without firmware..
<TJ-> I'm trying to confirm the ath9k driver is the one required for the AR5BXB112 chipset so I don't trip up :)
<TJ-> oerheks: "without firmware" isn't essential but would be nice to have since my experience with Intel's that require FW is that's often where some of the weird bugs are manifesting
<TJ-> We're going to operate these laptops for Community/Maker Space guests and I'm setting a 5GHz only rule to avoid typical 2.4GHz band congestion
<TJ-> So our APs will only use 802.11a band
<daftykins> 2007 :(
<TJ-> daftykins: with SSDs they fly
<TJ-> perfectly usable
<daftykins> laughable :)
<daftykins> hf
<TJ-> If software is so bloated it cannot function satisfactorily on these, it simply doesn't get installed/used/site-visited or whatever.
<TJ-> I'm not here to pander to dev's who don't know how to tie their own shoe-laces
<TJ-> I took my apprentice on a visit to the Science Museum, and National Museum of Computing this week, and he was blown away by the still-working pre-digital and first digital-based computers running on analogue, or basic valve tech, filling large parts of a room. Made him realise what is possible with good engineering. Then his father sent him a message asking "...but can it run Facebook?" :D
<daftykins> i've pointed out youtube before as an example you forget, but you disregard it because you don't use it personally
<TJ-> daftykins: I ban it
<TJ-> signal to noise ratio is too low
<daftykins> maybe in a work context, yeah
<TJ-> In all
<sarnold> but so many good conerts
<sarnold> concerts, too
<TJ-> sarnold: so much time wasted
<TJ-> what a video takes 500MB to convey, can be done in text + photos in 5MB or less, and is easier to digest and disect
<daftykins> sarnold: there we go, you're only allowed to download the sheet music at TJ-'s place ;)
<daftykins> why not -ac over -a too?
<TJ-> ac isn't essential ... main requirement is using the 802.11a band... also MIMO considerations and the number of antennas
<sarnold> heh, my favourite concerts are apparently in the 1.1 to 1.3 gb range :)
<TJ-> sarnold: concerts are for attending, not videos :)
<sarnold> TJ-: that is better, yes :)
<TJ-> as in "shared experience" not passive consumption
<TJ-> One of our innovation/maker-space activities is to simulate the 1990s Internet connections (56/64K modems) to educate our folks on how not to waste bandwidth and to focus on a decent signal to noise ratio in content design and transmission
<sarnold> "why is my reaction gif taking twenty seconds to load?"
<sarnold> "you could use this time to tell osomeone why you dislike their idea"
<TJ-> The flip-side is, optimising for this means in current applications your application/service/site will absolutely FLY compared to most others, and users notice the seemingly incredible reaction speed and lack of spinners and delays in reacting
<TJ-> The problem being, shallow knowledge in many devs mean they shovel abstractions and frameworks and 3rd part libraries into their applications without any consideration for performance... often because the dev's get to use the latest fastest powerful systems and don't consider what a fair number of their target market might be using.
<sarnold> that reminds me of navigating around projects hosted on https://sourcehut.org/
<sarnold> it's *so* responsive it's incredible
<oerheks> uh oh https://thehill.com/policy/technology/483750-trump-administration-backs-oracle-in-supreme-court-battle-against-google
<daftykins> oh dear :(
<oerheks> could well be a push that helps Oracle loose :-D
<jeremy31> Like an overdose of exlax?
<oerheks> i think both are right, google should have created their own api structure and names. oracle should not prevent such api.
<jeremy31> I don't think shrinking the Windows install from Windows is needed anymore.  The Ubuntu installer should handle it fine
<oerheks> i would avoid alignment and antivirus issues by doing so.
<oerheks> i hope he moves it to the end :-D
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-21
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<sarnold> Bashing-om: ooh do you know your way around these things? :)
<sarnold> Bashing-om: I've got to bail, so I'm hoping you can keep poking our new friend towards success
<Bashing-om> sarnold: :) ,, I got a few more minutes befor I too bail :P
<sarnold> aw :(
<sarnold> Bashing-om: cool, thanks
<lotuspsychje> lotus is still in tha house :p
<sarnold> yay :)
<sarnold> and it's bloody four in the morning or something
<sarnold> hehe
<sarnold> gnight or good morning :)
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.88.80 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 16 kB
<Bashing-om> sarnold: We await you on your flip :D
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic-hwe-18.04 bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic-hwe-18.04 (source: linux-meta-hwe): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 5.3.0.40.97 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf; arm64; ppc64el; s390x)
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<FlyingPersian> hello
<Ussat> o/
<FlyingPersian> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019 <-- can this be done on a Linux V-server I rented?
<FlyingPersian> I don't think I have access to manually installing an OS, just wanna make sure..
<leftyfb> FlyingPersian: why would you encrypt the entire drive for a VPS?
<FlyingPersian> well I can also just encrypt a partition tbh if that's good enough
<FlyingPersian> I just want an encrpyted partition since I use the server as backup server for personal stuff
<FlyingPersian> documents, pictures, etc.
<daftykins> those queries seem to be growing
<oerheks> After Trump supported Oracle in the Java blob against google:
<oerheks> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/report-300-oracle-employees-walk-out-over-ceos-trump-fundraiser/
<pizzaiolo> :(
<Ussat> eh...I would fire em on the sport
<Ussat> wanna proitest, fine, do it on your time
<Ussat> I dont care what ya protesting
<leftyfb> uh
<leftyfb> good thing you're not in charge
<daftykins> my thoughts exactly xD
<Ussat> leftyfb, yup
<Ussat> I have no problem with people protesting, but not if I am paying ya
<Ussat> or use a vacation day
<leftyfb> Ussat: looks like you didn't read the article
<Ussat> nope, I did not
<leftyfb> I've got lots to say on the matter, but this isn't the place for it so I won't
<oerheks> it started with this >>  https://thehill.com/policy/technology/483750-trump-administration-backs-oracle-in-supreme-court-battle-against-google
<leftyfb> yep
<oerheks> earlier: i think both are right, google should have created their own api structure and names. oracle should not prevent such api.
<oerheks> so this will end up android being more expensive
<leftyfb> didn't this or something like it happen like a dozen years ago or so? Something to do with java maybe?
<oerheks> oh, tons of times, licenses on android are huge?
<oerheks> not sure how much they pay per handset, tens of dollars
<leftyfb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America#District_Court
<leftyfb> bingo, 10 years ago
 * sarnold flips
<daftykins> gymnastics or user related? :)
<sarnold> lets hope not gymnastics, that'd be a quick way to break something that doesn't heal
<daftykins> hehe
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Aavar> This might be the wrong place to ask but. I have a server with a 2-drive raid (raid 1 i believe). I am running out of space and I am thinking about expanding the array with one or two more drives. Whar raid-level would you recommend? I am thinking 3-4 drives with one of them being a pairity-pairity-drive. Is this recommended and what raid level would this be?
<tomreyn> cp'd to #ubuntu and #debian
<jeremy31> lotuspsychje: ask samarai-one for results for  inxi -rc0 | nc termbin.com 9999
<lotuspsychje> cool trick jeremy31
<jeremy31> lotuspsychje: they might be using Mint
<lotuspsychje> didnt know inxi had a repos command
<jeremy31> It is used on Mint support often as inxi is installed by default
<lotuspsychje> i see
<daftykins> another liar eh :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Ussat
<Ussat> o/ heya
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<marcoagpinto> :)
<Ussat> o/
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto!!!
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE!!!!!!!!!!!!
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> little one!
<EoflaOE> Hello marcoagpinto! How are you?
<marcoagpinto> fine, and you?
<marcoagpinto> revising the thesis
<EoflaOE> All fine
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-23
<oerheks> i would standard say intel, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005511/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html/clear
<oerheks> oops
<leftyfb> Fair warning, I banned ptah from #ubuntu and #linuxhelp on EFnet from constantly spamming garbage.
<pragmaticenigma> ptah has been doing this all week
<pragmaticenigma> has had some valid support issues... but rambles into the ot realm
<leftyfb> yup, which I found interesting. He filters himself quite a bit here. Pretty outright trolling/spamming on EFnet
<pragmaticenigma> agreed, very good at dancing on the line between what is and isn't acceptable
<pragmaticenigma> they have been told about -discuss and -offtopic and usually find their way over there after being reminded
<pragmaticenigma> unlike this alazy character
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/fH3THkyQmr/
<leftyfb> there was nobody else talking during any of his rambling
<pragmaticenigma> I think they're doing it because it all gets logged... so they can tell all their friends... hey look, I did something
<pragmaticenigma> guessing it's either some 15 year old who hasn't quite met the world yet, or some 40 year old living in their mom's basement
<pragmaticenigma> !gpt
<ubot5> GPT is a partition table format. It is required to boot EFI. See also !efi
<pragmaticenigma> or they should just get a real laptop?
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: aren't some chromebooks capable of having ChromeOS completely removed and replaced by another OS now?
<leftyfb> I think so
<leftyfb> but this isn't that
<pragmaticenigma> hence why I didn't mention it in main as an option ;-)
<leftyfb> I bet they could potentially get it going properly with namespacing, but that goes way beyond the scope of #u and that individuals capabilities
<pragmaticenigma> agreed
<daftykins> those ones i got free, you had to crack the case and remove a write protect screw... flash an alternate firmware... then you only got some super limited options due to the tiny eMMC
<leftyfb> I still have my CR48. It won't power on/charge though due to the defective barrel connector or something that they all had.
<pragmaticenigma> I think the newer ones are less physical to switch over
<leftyfb> for a while, I could plug/unplug the power cord 10-100 times in a row(according to googles official documentation) to get it to charge and power on
<pragmaticenigma> oh geeze
<pragmaticenigma> that sounds like a guide to... here... let
<pragmaticenigma> it limp along until the warrenty expires
<leftyfb> I should bring it down to the makerspace and see if I can get it going one of these days
<leftyfb> there was no warranty, google just sent it to me one day
<pragmaticenigma> sounds like a fun afternoon project for the maker space
<leftyfb> I think I signed up to test google products or something a long time ago, then one day this thing just showed up out of the blue.
<leftyfb> yeah, though I question how well it'll work. I can guarantee it's not going to run any modern chromeOS. It's got to be about 10 years old now
<leftyfb> oh look, it's just about exactly 10 years old
<leftyfb> it has free built in 3G too. I wonder if that's still active
<pragmaticenigma> It would be impressive if it was... worth pulling it apart to get at the SIM card?
<daftykins> i feel like i read a piece on something like that getting retired
<leftyfb> not to mention it's 3g which is starting to get phased out everywhere
<pragmaticenigma> phased out? hadn't heard that yet
<pragmaticenigma> most I heared recently was the 2nd gen and older being shut off
<leftyfb> https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/knowledge-base-218813/
<pragmaticenigma> found an article for AT&T planning on shutting it down in 2022
<leftyfb> https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1324171/
<leftyfb> so yeah, basically gone in the next 2 years
<pragmaticenigma> damn... guess another set of phones to get rid of
<leftyfb> hm, wonder if my old kindle paperwhite supports LTE ... that'll be a pitty if it doesn't
<leftyfb> shocker, it needs to be charged
<pragmaticenigma> haha
<daftykins> i'm seeing a theme developing :)
<leftyfb> ooo, new one is waterproof
<daftykins> finally a feature dead-tree lacks
<pragmaticenigma> I thought the waterproof one was released back in 2015?
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: now you know how long I've had my OS paperwhite :)
<leftyfb> 2014 is when I bought mine
<pragmaticenigma> it's all good... I have one in the cupboard from about the same time... though it wasn't mine originally... and I'm sure it's battery is dead
<pragmaticenigma> I wanted to see if I could make it into a weather display
<leftyfb> hm, interesting. The latest paperwhite is still 3G. Wonder how they expect to not tick off their customers in the next couple years
<leftyfb> nm, I guess it's LTE
<pragmaticenigma> wonder how many are still on the old whispernet system
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<pragmaticenigma> guess who's back
<pragmaticenigma> back again... ptah8's back...
<lotuspsychje> when you see me, you need to goto bed :p
<pragmaticenigma> watching some shows on the telie
<Bashing-om> I am going to go to bed :P \o
<daftykins> g'night!
<pragmaticenigma> I'm not too far behind in that plan... the tom foolery in main and #kodi... has me brain dead
<daftykins> same here, fried and 4:30am
<ducasse> good morning
<JoeLlama> I have a number of older, slower machines that I want to run linux on.  Which will run faster and use few resources: lubuntu or xubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: depends on the hardware really, i had machines that worked smoother with xubuntu
<JoeLlama> ok
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: but in most cases, lubuntu should still be the lightest
<JoeLlama> lubuntu is generally faster?
<JoeLlama> I have a number of intel atom n250 computers
<JoeLlama> wait lemme make sure
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: think we cant generalize the fastest flavor by default
<lotuspsychje> its all about how the user tweaks his own system
<JoeLlama> well I mean a straight install and updates
<JoeLlama> and that is about it
<JoeLlama> Intel Atom n270
<JoeLlama> single core two threads 32 bit
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: best way to findout is compare yourself on your hardware
<JoeLlama> it gets a bit bogged down at atimes for sure
<JoeLlama> yeah I am just installing xubuntu at this point... it just works... lubuntu I couldn't get wireless working but then again I'm not real sharp when it comes to that
<JoeLlama> mainly I just want the one that runs faster
<JoeLlama> takes 7 to 10 seconds to open firefox
<JoeLlama> but at least xubuntu works very well
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: firefox is a heavy browser for older hardware
<lotuspsychje> best case is you tweak everything possible, to have a smooth system
<JoeLlama> oh ok :) what would be a good browser in your opinion
<JoeLlama> I would need a link/referenve on tweaks
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: there are few lighter browsers like chromium or text based browsers links2
<JoeLlama> ah
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: tweaking: install preload, haveged, stacer, bleachbit, trim down unwanted startup items, disabled unwanted systemd services, use lightweight software
<JoeLlama> not sure I would want chromium because it's google... google has enough data gathing going on but I dunno
<JoeLlama> oh ok
<JoeLlama> I saved that information and I'll google that up later
<JoeLlama> mostly one box I am working on is just for very simple things like running VLC, email, and browser
<JoeLlama> I can see how firefox is rather loadedd down
<lotuspsychje> you can also install lubuntu/xubuntu with minimal option during setup
<JoeLlama> how so?
<JoeLlama> I did not see much in the way of choices
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: did you never install ubuntu before?
<JoeLlama> I think my preference is xubuntu at this point
<JoeLlama> I have installed many times yes but far from an expert
<JoeLlama> it pretty much installs itself
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: during setup depending on your ubuntu version, you can enable/disable minimal option
<JoeLlama> hrm...
<lotuspsychje> that will save you alot of space on harddisk
<JoeLlama> I am not sure if I saw that anyplace during installation
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: https://i.stack.imgur.com/pMgbB.png
<JoeLlama> thanks :)
<JoeLlama> hrm I do not remmeber seeing that
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: depends wich version you tryed to install
<JoeLlama> I am sure there is a way to pick and choose right>
<JoeLlama> well this was 16.04 I think
<JoeLlama> 32 bit
<lotuspsychje> 16.04 didnt have that option yet
<JoeLlama> I'm not really worried about how much storage I use (hard drive) just mainly speed... so dump firefox and install chrome right?
<JoeLlama> how can I pick and choose each utility item during installation I assume there is a way
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: more space on hd will also help overall system smoothness
<JoeLlama> oh ok well is SSD
<JoeLlama> small SSD
<JoeLlama> so there is no way to choose individual options with 16.04 during install??
<JoeLlama> I will try chrome
<JoeLlama> thanks lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> chromium is the ubuntu alternate for chrome
<JoeLlama> oh! ok I was wondering
<lotuspsychje> so wich ubuntu version are you on now?
<JoeLlama> for the box I set up xubuntu 16.04 I think...  that is the last version that is 32 bit right?
<JoeLlama> lemme look
<JoeLlama> oops:
<JoeLlama> xubuntu-18.04.4-desktop-i386
<JoeLlama> that's it lotuspsychje
<JoeLlama> I need cheese products brb
<JoeLlama> bak
<JoeLlama> so I should uninstall firefox and install chromium right lotuspsychje?
<lotuspsychje> you can try what you want JoeLlama
<lotuspsychje> live dangerous, try out some things on ubuntu
<JoeLlama> let me rephrase
<JoeLlama> for a speed increase in browsing I might have better luck with chromium right? also, removing firefox can help wtih speed issues?
<JoeLlama> looking for an opinion here
<lotuspsychje> my opinion is to try and compare things for yourself
<JoeLlama> yes let me rephrase again...
<lotuspsychje> cause on different hardware, software willr eact differently
<JoeLlama> in your experience...  do you find chromium to be faster and also in your experience do you find that removing firefox helps with speed issues
<JoeLlama> I notice it's very hard to get straight answers from linux people and I don't know why
<lotuspsychje> in my experience i use firefox only on my i5 and i7 machine
<JoeLlama> it's a single core CPU so...
<JoeLlama> oh ok
<JoeLlama> that's the answer I think I was looking for
<JoeLlama> I will uninstall firefox and install chromium
<lotuspsychje> lol
<JoeLlama> also I will look up the tweaks you mentioned
<JoeLlama> like I said takes 7 to 10 seconds for firefox to open on that box
<JoeLlama> Intel Atom n270 1.6 GHz
<JoeLlama> I run Dells almost exclusively here
<JoeLlama> I have piles of dells (literally)
<lotuspsychje> before uninstalling firefox, TRY chromium first and compare, then let me know wich1 goes faster
<JoeLlama> I went nuts, bought used older Dells sometimes 5 at a time on ebay
<JoeLlama> oh ok
<JoeLlama> I think I will just uninstall firefox I'm not that big of a fan to be honest
<JoeLlama> I will try chromium
<lotuspsychje> JoeLlama: open software center, there's like several browsers you can test alternate
<JoeLlama> hrm ok
<JoeLlama> I will trust that chromium is a good alternative from what you have told me
<lotuspsychje> you are using xubuntu already, you never looked in the software?
<JoeLlama> I also use opera
<JoeLlama> I like opera
<JoeLlama> no not much haven't looked
<lotuspsychje> so, you already know all this
<JoeLlama> hrm?
<JoeLlama> all what?
<lotuspsychje> wich browser goes faster, opera or firefox?
<lotuspsychje> i need your opinion
<JoeLlama> well I assume opera
<JoeLlama> yes I Think opera goes faster on a windows box
<lotuspsychje> you use it right?
<JoeLlama> but it doesn't work with every site
<JoeLlama> I use opera and firefox on windows boxes
<JoeLlama> opera seems faster and lower overhead
<lotuspsychje> well lets not discuss windows here
<lotuspsychje> did you test them on xubuntu?
<JoeLlama> and to be honest I like opera a little better than firefox
<JoeLlama> so then I will try both opera and chromium on xubuntu
<JoeLlama> perhaps leave both installed and uninstall firefox
<lotuspsychje> the fastest browser is tested was brave snap
<JoeLlama> brave snap?
<lotuspsychje> but i think they removed the snap
<JoeLlama> oh
<lotuspsychje> brave browser
<JoeLlama> brave browser?
<JoeLlama> do you like it? does it work well?
<JoeLlama> I will try those three then
<JoeLlama> I have not tried windows 10 yet but from what steve gibson says it makes me itch :(
<JoeLlama> I will have a number of ubuntu boxes up and running soon I hope
<JoeLlama> microsoft offered me the job but I find that I am unable to write slow and bloated code
<JoeLlama> ok thanks lotuspsychje :) I appreciate the input
<JoeLlama> steve gibson is writing a new version of spinrite btw for newer drives
 * JoeLlama wanders off munching cheese and crackers with a wee bit of scotch
<JoeLlama> oh yes I know brave browser!  saw it on security now.
<JoeLlama> seems like a good thing but at the time was still not available when I saw it...  I look again now
<lotuspsychje> just keep in mind some software are snaps or will add external ppa's to your system
<JoeLlama> installing brave now
<JoeLlama> dunno what an external ppa is
<lotuspsychje> !ppa
<ubot5> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge
<JoeLlama> oh ok looking
<JoeLlama> yes brave advertised on security now for a short time a while back: https://twit.tv/shows/security-now
<JoeLlama> ok thanks lotuspsychje
<JoeLlama> I find that drinking never solves any problems but it does make them go away
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: ping for your wakeup: <Battle> leftyfb if you're here, when i returned home I found this message on the KVM when the system crashed again https://prnt.sc/r6gdrc ive asked them to reconnect the KVM so i may be able to get more info but uncertain atm
<oerheks> Microsoft Defender ATP for Linux ...
<daftykins> i hope it has Clippy
<oerheks> i am trying t find a download, but no
<oerheks> https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-defender-atp-now-public-preview-linux
<oerheks> maybe just part of WSL?
<leftyfb> I think it's only part of the Windows preview or whatever they call it
<leftyfb> basically beta testers
<daftykins> ah for "Windows Insiders"
<oerheks> peew, i had a deja vu
<leftyfb> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/windows/microsoft-defender-atp?ocid=docs-wdatp-main-abovefoldlink&rtc=1
<leftyfb> it's only for business
