#ubuntu-discuss 2013-05-13
<snpresent_> hi
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-05-14
<Wizard> Hi.
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-05-15
<thebishop> "The Canonical developers also admitted that having features like multi-GPU/hybrid support for Mir is a long way out. "  - Mir or no-Mir, the hybrid graphics situation on Linux is getting untenable
<Thurin1> Was Unity the right choice or will Ubuntu suffer from ditching Gnome 3?
<Wizard> Hard to say, actually.
<Wizard> In my opinion Ubuntu will have to fork Gnome sooner or later or replace it with something else.
<Thurin1> True.
<Wizard> Unity in fact *is* built on top of Gnome 3.
<Thurin1> Yes, I am aware of that.
<Wizard> But Unity and Shell differ in many areas.
<Thurin1> But, I think Gnome 3 will be the choice for desktops.
<Thurin1> Ubuntu however has it made for tablets.
<Wizard> Bull... RedBull :P
<Thurin1> What part?
<Thurin1> Gnome on desktops?
<Thurin1> Or ubuntu on tablets?
<Wizard> Belive me, both Unity (as in regular Ubuntu, 13.04) and Gnome Shell suck on a touchscreen.
<Thurin1> Yes, but I find unity sucks a little less.
<Thurin1> Because the dash is always present.
<Thurin1> Gnome 3, more finger work.
<Wizard> Well, in Shell "Preview" button is always present.
<Wizard> Unity is Gnome 3 too.
<Thurin1> Yeah, at the top left corner... than look down, then press etc.
<Wizard> I don't get your point.
<Thurin1> The way the layout is. :D
<Wizard> You meant Gnome Shell?
<Thurin1> The defaults.
<Thurin1> Yes gnome shell
<Wizard> Well. Unity is a classic desktop actually.
<Thurin1> You like it as a desktop?
<Wizard> Sure.
<Wizard> Moreover, I think it was a step in right direction :)
<Thurin1> I do too, but I prefer gnome-shell after using it for a while.
<Thurin1> Oh, it was.
<Wizard> Well, both was.
<Thurin1> Much better than gnome 2.
<Thurin1> But...
<Wizard> I like gnome-shell too.
<Wizard> But what?
<Wizard> Man, I waited more than 10 years for this :D
<Wizard> Linux got its own desktop!
<Thurin1> For this conversation?
<Thurin1> Me too
<Thurin1> lol
<Thurin1> :P
<Thurin1> Yes!
<Wizard> No, for true Linux Desktop.
<Thurin1> It really feels like it. :)
<Thurin1> It's not a copy of MS or Mac...
<Thurin1> We're Linux.
<Thurin1> :)
<Wizard> Not FVWM with bunch of crappy athena widget apps, not KDE which immitates Windows 98 not Another OS X WM.
<Thurin1> KDE...
<Wizard> (Actually, Unity resembles OS X in some areas, but who cares )
<Wizard> Broken.
<Thurin1> Perpetually.
<Wizard> Well, KDE1 was nice.
<Thurin1> 4... 4... terrible.
<Wizard> Terrible.
<Thurin1> That's another thing
<Thurin1> With Unity now
<Thurin1> I think is the time to get rid of the Kubuntu line.
<Wizard> Why?
<Thurin1> Because people who want KDE know how to get it anyways.
<Thurin1> Unity should be Ubuntu and Ubuntu should be Unity.
<Wizard> Hence the name, I belive.
<Thurin1> hah
<Thurin1> One thing that's always been a blessing and a curse at the same time is the sheer amount of distsos.
<Thurin1> distros..
<Thurin1> So much wasted time on the same thing really.
<Wizard> This is only a matter of time.
<Thurin1> Ubuntu should just be Ubuntu... desktop/tablet/Server.
<Thurin1> Makes it simple.
<Wizard> If it comes about me, Ubuntu lacks two things.
<Wizard> 1. Fonts and LibreOffice templates which actually look good.
<Wizard> 2. Avahi integration for local network services discovery.
<Thurin1> Yes, especially #1.
<Thurin1> Actually the whole UI in libreoffice needs an overhaul but that's another story.
<Wizard> Well, I agree.
<Wizard> Sometimes when I look at it it reminds me of Ancient Egypt :D
<Wizard> I don't know why.
<Thurin1> hahahaha
<Thurin1> Yeah, it's sad actually.
<Wizard> Probably this UI design was found among hieroglyphs in Gisa :D
<Thurin1> You know when you're all excited to introduce a friend to Linux... and they ask "well what about work? documents and spreadsheets?"
<Thurin1> Then you fire up that damn ugly thing
<Thurin1> Wizard: haha maybe.
<Wizard> Even Google Docs offers more.
<Thurin1> lol... it even looks better.
<Thurin1> Anyways, that's the end of my lunch break...
<Thurin1> Back to work, yay.
<Wizard> And it is some kind of javascript abomination.
<Thurin1> see ya
<Wizard> Bye ;P
<Wizard> I hope we won't ba banned from here for this small chat.
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-05-17
<JesperHansen> Anyone got an idea where https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-chromium-default-browser is headed? Is it really happening no matter what the community thinks?
<Wizard> JesperHansen: I hope guys behind that idea burn in hell already :P
<JesperHansen> The arguments behind the idea appear flawed and shot down in every case
<AlanBell> JesperHansen: it isn't going to uninstall firefox for people who already have it
<AlanBell> it would mean shipping an inaccessible browser by default which is mildly annoying as a point of principal to me
<IdleOne> not sure what you mean by  inaccessible ?
<AlanBell> try it
<AlanBell> turn on orca and try and get around firefox and chromium
<IdleOne> ahh
<IdleOne> ok, well if that is the case then I agree it is a bad idea
<hackerjag> fullz and logins wanted... contact for deal
<guntbert_> JesperHansen: [jasoncwarner] Take research to public mailing list and reach consensus about defaultness switch: TODO
<guntbert_> doesn't sound like "no matter what community says"
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-05-11
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<daftykins> hi sir o/
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: hello mate
<daftykins> how goes it?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx, and you?
<daftykins> yeah not too shabby :D though still up at this insane hour once again
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> this LMNOP is a friggin' nutjob
<lotuspsychje> hmm never seen him b4
<daftykins> basically just does this bot style 'hi' but i don't think ever helps anyone
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<golf44> what's the oldest hardware you've got ubuntu currently running on?
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-05-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<daftykins> o/
<ablest1980> gm
<lotuspsychje> daftykins and ablest1980 hello :p
<ablest1980> hello XP
<lotuspsychje> you guys bought the ubuntu freidge yet :p
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/meet-the-smart-fridge-that-runs-ubuntu
<daftykins> hrmm i best quit to boot into a newer kernel
<ablest1980> lol
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: why's that?
<daftykins> just updates on 14.04
<daftykins> that's what my IRC client runs from
<lotuspsychje> im on trusty too
<daftykins> it was days ago but i've been putting it off
<daftykins> got the -52 to boot into :)
<lotuspsychje> hmm alot of ubuntu news today
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/User-Suggests-There-Might-be-Spyware-in-Ubuntu-Instructs-Others-to-Compile-the-OS-480844.shtml
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> we get trolls claiming that all the time :D
<lotuspsychje> amazon again...
<lotuspsychje> that isnt real spyware
<daftykins> sounds like that guy is claiming it's something else?
 * ablest1980 is a troll :(
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: well i recently asked in offtopic how canonical counted users worldwide with ubuntu installed
<lotuspsychje> some think they have a specialized way they wont tell
<daftykins> =/
<lotuspsychje> but i dont think its spyware
<daftykins> something just phoning home then at the very least
<daftykins> or could just be unique IPs to repos
<lotuspsychje> yeah, and the ubuntu phones were also counted im sure
<lotuspsychje> so some ppl just dont like ubuntu goes big now...
<ablest1980> hello
<daftykins> you again
<ablest1980> lol
<ablest1980> XD
<ablest1980> im lotuspsychje guest
 * daftykins stares at lotuspsychje 
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: morning
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, yowza!^2
<ablest1980> hello lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<kernel24> What would be the best solution to optimize the Linux kernel for older computers?
<BluesKaj> kernel24, maybe a lighter flavour like lubuntu or xubunru
<kernel24> That just hasa lighter desktop environment, the kernel is not lighter
<BluesKaj> kernel24, if the default kernel wom't suffice then a lighter desktop is probly the only alternative, because a modded kernel will break your systerm after thenxt kernel upgrade, unless of course you don't upgrade it
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-05-13
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/i908btv49l989q2/IMG_20150513_005611.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> too many questions, break time
<OerHeks> got new shoes https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/Keukenhof2015-grotepoten.JPG
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ugh schrodingersscat assuming misleading newbies
<OerHeks> raw is a photo, nothing else..
<OerHeks> well, we bite our tongue, daftykins
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> that guy is a total nutjob, won't share where this thing is from O_O
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> yeah i'm not so good at that part :P
<OerHeks> If someone abuses me like that, i stop helping him/het/it.
<daftykins> *nod* definitely not the deserving kind of helpee
<OerHeks> Someday we come to a point, where helpseekers should be muted untill a helper/helpers are ready.
<OerHeks> Then again, lots of times it goes well.
<daftykins> hmm, yeah i have seen channels that work like that, using voicing
<OerHeks> like that est31, complaining, but if you were in #kubuntu, you'll read stuff you don't believe...
<daftykins> is it worse over there?
<OerHeks> manually downloading a deb, from a ppa, then saying nothing about that in #ubuntu.
<OerHeks> No, usually it is beter and smoother than #ubuntu.
<daftykins> hrmm
<OerHeks> People take windows/ios/android for granted, but if Ubuntu does something logical, man,...
<OerHeks> Sorry for this outburst to you :-D
<daftykins> hehe no it's interesting
<daftykins> it's great having this channel now and not having to just suffer in silence at the #ubuntards
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: good morning
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> new snappy devices: https://insights.ubuntu.com/?p=11485
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> 2 eric ip's :p
<EriC^> hehe
<EriC^> cool
<lotuspsychje> well im not such a fan of internet of things,
<lotuspsychje> but rather have it secure with ubuntu core, then something else
<EriC^> yeah, that's a pretty cool refrigerator O.o
<EriC^> i heard the new apt will be called snappy
<lotuspsychje> yeah ive read somewhere they want snappy everywhere
<lotuspsychje> https://twitter.com/ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> the webupd8 tweet
<EriC^> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/more-stable-future-ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> yep thats it
<lotuspsychje> hmmm interesting security differences
<EriC^> yeah snappy core seems cool
<EriC^> did you try it?
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> not sure if it works on just laptop/desktop?
<lotuspsychje> maybe its like a minimal ubuntu or so?
<EriC^> yeah it seems for embedded stuff
<lotuspsychje> i think manufacturers need some more building for their specific device with snappy
<EriC^> http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/start/#snappy-local
<EriC^> seems pretty cool it's 100mb or so
<EriC^> i'm d/ling :>
<lotuspsychje_> lol
<EriC^> never tried kvm before
<lotuspsychje_> me neither
<lotuspsychje_> kvm, lvm, encryption,..
<EriC^> uncompresses into a 500mb image
<lotuspsychje_> wow
<lotuspsychje> EriC^: surely let me know how that works out :p
<lotuspsychje> on wich device are you installing?
<EriC^> just locally
<EriC^> just installed the kvm thing package
<lotuspsychje> thats like virtualbox thingy?
<EriC^> yeah i typed the kvm command and it opened another window like a terminal and it booted as if a live session to a tty
<lotuspsychje> cool
<EriC^> i'm supposed to ssh into it now but ssh isn't working locally on my machine dunno why
<EriC^> sucks
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<EriC^> i have ssh installed but when i ssh usually i get May 13 10:27:04.618 [warn] Got SOCKS5 status response '4': host is unreachable
<EriC^> port is open though for the kvm thing qemu-syst 18675    e    8u  IPv4 489326      0t0  TCP *:8022 (LISTEN)
<lotuspsychje> i think lordievader knows alot of that stuff
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: waky waky!!!
<lotuspsychje> socks5 is proxy right, maybe its blocking?
<EriC^> dunno i tried purging ssh and reinstalling, didn't work
<lotuspsychje> !info virt-viewer
<lotuspsychje> maybe this can help in some way
<ubot5> virt-viewer (source: virt-viewer): Displaying the graphical console of a virtual machine. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0-1 (vivid), package size 193 kB, installed size 1988 kB
<EriC^> interesting it works with another user
<EriC^> if i login to another user and ssh into it it works
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<EriC^> also if i ssh into my user from that one it works
<lotuspsychje> what about this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/Access
<EriC^> removed ~/.ssh and it works now
<lotuspsychje> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<EriC^> :D
<EriC^> kvm seems cool and pretty quick
<EriC^> anyways it got boring hehe
<lotuspsychje> cool, never used myself
<EriC^> snappy seems state of the art though and has lots of new features
<EriC^> will be interesting when it comes out
<lotuspsychje> yeah im real curious too
<lotuspsychje> the core of everything
<EriC^> lotuspsychje: oh, heh the image thing uncompressed to 4gb
<lotuspsychje> oO
<EriC^> don't know if it's a glitch or something cause of disk usage
<lotuspsychje> did it update in some way also?
<EriC^> nope
<lotuspsychje> pretty interesting snappy :p
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-05-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> hello douwtrapper :-D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> gÃ³Ã³Ã³Ã³dmorning to you too
<lotuspsychje> tnx :p
<OerHeks> I hope shops will open, i ran out of sugar
<lotuspsychje> lol, no suga coffee for you
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> ellow
<daftykins> i'm making a coffee just now, seems to be raining outside too as i see the sun come up
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/hp-launch-ubuntu-laptops-pcs-in-russia
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu pc's showing up everywhere :p
<OerHeks> no wonder, stocks are full, vendors grab anything to sell
<OerHeks> Still they do not show enough machines without windows
<lotuspsychje> true
<lotuspsychje> my idea i have not seen yet
<OerHeks> HP = business machines, i expected them to go with us
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu + ssd + windowsless + cheap
<OerHeks> .. shops open 12.00
<lotuspsychje> :p
<OerHeks> Shall i wake up the lady nextdoor?
<lotuspsychje> loool
<OerHeks> "buurvrouw, heeft u voor mij een ko...ko...ko..."
 * OerHeks is shy
<daftykins> i'm not sure taking Windows off really saves that much
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah im skared of that too
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: MS has grown so deep into hardware, it doesnt matter anymore if they gave it for free
<OerHeks> true, vendors get it for free incl sticker with number
<OerHeks> that is why they become 'partner' for a bag with gold
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> well, now the keys are in the EFI so you couldn't 'give it back' if you wanted to ;)
<daftykins> but i actually run Windows and am quite excited about 10 \o/
<lotuspsychje> 10 is gonna be better then 8 for sure,
<lotuspsychje> but with the keylogger inside oO
<OerHeks> oh, you test it so you get a free license?
<OerHeks> :-(
<daftykins> the keylogger is only the preview version
<lotuspsychje> ah
<daftykins> not sure how comprehensive that is either 0o
 * lotuspsychje gonna stick to good ol ubuntu LTS
<OerHeks> I am still on 14.10
<lotuspsychje> w10 will hold security flaws and injections like any other win version
<OerHeks> in doubt, shall i transfer my ssd to a i3 with 6 gb .. or use it as a testserver
<lotuspsychje> niceee
<lotuspsychje> testserver for what?
<OerHeks> i tried opencloud, http webserver, kodi 14.04
<daftykins> well heartbleed and others in the past 2 years have shown GNU/Linux distros are no safer from security woes
<lotuspsychje> alot of ubuntu patching lately also yeah
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: i would ssd your i3 :p
<OerHeks> else i am going to try to put 7 simple machines in line for openstack
<OerHeks> or wait 1 week to buy an 2nd ssd
<OerHeks> but then openstack would run on a 100 mbit network :-(
<OerHeks> current machine and i3 have 1000mbit
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: wich one you ordered?
<OerHeks> Nothing yet
 * lotuspsychje suggest samsung 850 pro :p
<OerHeks> 32 gb for â¬32 http://www.computerstunt.nl/onderdeel/5739/  not really interesting
<OerHeks> or 2 for 51 euro
<lotuspsychje> http://www.ssdcenter.be/product/483334/category-242021/samsung-850-pro-128-gb.html
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: really the fastest and stablest
<lotuspsychje> and 10 years garantuee
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: the samsung EVO's are cheaper, but they have performance bugs you need to fix with firmware updates
<OerHeks> Hier heb ik nu een adata 60 gb, niet meer leverbaar
<OerHeks> But when hollidaymoney comes in, have to take the dogs to the vet first. then i'll see
<lotuspsychje> kk
<daftykins> they're still not fixes either :( i am glad i had the sense to never buy an 840 EVO
<lotuspsychje> yeah i hear their struggling on evo 840
<lotuspsychje> they dont get it straight
<daftykins> their firmware does a maintenance pass to rewrite the data in the decayed cells :/
<daftykins> sketchy++
<daftykins> anywho i think it's all about the 3D NAND drives now :)
<lotuspsychje> yep :p
<lotuspsychje> 850 pro
<daftykins> well all the other drives using it too
<daftykins> think it was intel that is close to putting theirs in drives / already have
<lotuspsychje> intels are also stable
<lotuspsychje> but nothing can beat samsung :p
<daftykins> well their drives have been good, but i'm developing issues with them as a company
<ablest1980> hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: hi there
<ablest1980> whats' up?
<daftykins> uh oh (:
<ablest1980> >:D
<lotuspsychje> re
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox trusty
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 38.0+build3-0ubuntu0.14.04.1 (trusty), package size 37866 kB, installed size 88668 kB
<lotuspsychje> man dead silent support these days :p
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> o/
<OerHeks> daftykins returned
<daftykins> he did!
 * BluesKaj returns !
<daftykins> this morning me and a mate stripped my oven and replaced a dead thermostat, it's now working great :D
<daftykins> oh my Tux, a BluesKaj!
<OerHeks> oh my, BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> howdy daftykins, OerHeks
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-05-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/hp-launch-ubuntu-laptops-pcs-in-russia
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-05-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, greetings humanz
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: hello mate :p
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Meizu-to-Announce-Ubuntu-Phone-on-May-18-Rumour-481321.shtml
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, I'm in Beijing.  No news yet
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: you following it?
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, as best I can ...
<lotuspsychje> cool, you gonna buy when release?
<lotuspsychje> hardware specs gonna be much better then the Bq
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, I prefer to wait for version 2 so they have time to work out the glitches.
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: good idea
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hello mate
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> freenode having problems today?
<DJones> OerHeks: The only rufus I've heard of is the guy from Bill & Ted's Excellent adventure :)
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> it works witn windows iso's too, https://rufus.akeo.ie/ but never uses it myself
<OerHeks> *used
<OerHeks> also never installed on uefi too :-(
<DJones> From my own experience, uefi is simple, disable secure boot, install, job done
<OerHeks> disable fastboot, i know. but there is now a signed efi thing??
<DJones> Not sure about that, last install I did I just had to disable secureboot
<OerHeks> We didn't do a release/install party, so had no chance too see it myself.
<DJones> You should find there's a clone of ubottu online in #ubuntu now
<OerHeks> Thnx
<guntbert> hmm, who is currently to poke about completely botched download pages? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases/vivid/release/ shows images for *server* for *powerPC* and the likes only.
<OerHeks> http://releases.ubuntu.com/15.04/
<guntbert> OerHeks: yes, I don't have a problem finding what I want, but those "mislinks" should be handled, methinks
<OerHeks> true
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-05-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ablest1980> hello
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hello
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje, how's things ?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx
<lotuspsychje> they posted this in touch https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/05/17/meizu-launches-the-ubuntu-mx4-for-developers-in-china/
<ablest1980> hello
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: hi mate
<ablest1980> lotuspsychje, hello
<ablest1980> whats new lotuspsychje
<ablest1980> 3am there?
<ablest1980> pm*
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/meizu-mx4-with-ubuntu-launched-in-china-coming-to-europe-soon
<lotuspsychje> yep 15h here
<ablest1980> Canonical has previously said that the USA will get its own exclusive Ubuntu Phone (from an as-yet-unnamed OEM), details of which are expected in June, 2015.
<ablest1980> !!
<lotuspsychje> : )
<ablest1980> XD
<lotuspsychje> good news for ubuntu
<ablest1980> yes
<ablest1980> gold and silver
<lotuspsychje> gold for the ladies :p
<ablest1980> XP
<ablest1980> does hp make phones?
<lotuspsychje> they used to for sure
<lotuspsychje> not sure if they do now
<ablest1980> k
<ablest1980> my hp pavilion g6 has 8gb ram says 7.3gb though
<ablest1980> i use to have 4gb
<BluesKaj> hi ablest1980 , yes my old pc here supposedly has 6G RAM , but system monitor shows it as 5.8
<ablest1980> hi BluesKaj
<ablest1980> shows me 7.3gb
<ablest1980> oh your pc
<ablest1980> i thought you was saying mine
<ablest1980> XP
<ablest1980> going to play cs bbl
<ablest1980> XD
<daftykins> ablest1980: causing trouble again i see
<daftykins> ;)
<ablest1980> no
<ablest1980> XD
<ablest1980> i was having connection trouble and notice the of mac address from the usb wireless netzero stick but the hardware address was the same as before change of the mac address
<daftykins> so the label on the device ends in one number, but somewhere else on your ubuntu machine it states that your dongle has another address?
<daftykins> where is this other place? :)
<daftykins> hrmm compiled a newer webcam driver and got the camera on this old Sony laptop working in Skype :D
<OerHeks> Now you want us to see you ?
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> a young lass already is ;)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-05-16
<OerHeks> yay 4.6 is out https://lwn.net/Articles/687511/
<Bashing-om> ^^ and a whole bunch of long awaited fixes !
<OerHeks> usb 3.1 yes
<daftykins> 3.1 gen1 and gen2 is the new terminology for 5 and 10Gbps respectively :<
<daftykins> just to confuse you
<OerHeks> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-4.6-Kernel-Features
<Bashing-om> My time to call it . G nite.
<dax> nicomachus: i poked Pici about ubot5 and yakkety, he's going to take a look when he's not on the road
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon how are you
<baizon> tired
<lotuspsychje> what time is it
<lotuspsychje> 7h58 here
<baizon> lotuspsychje: im awake since 6am
<lotuspsychje> oh you early woke and still tired?
<baizon> yep, bad weather
 * lotuspsychje send a hot strong coffee to baizon 
<baizon> thank you lotuspsychje !
<suka1> hi
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi EriC^^
<nicomachus> dax: thanks. I wasn't too worried about it, just noticed it the other night
<nicomachus> sometimes /r/linux4noobs really delivers
<nicomachus> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux4noobs/comments/4jjb37/my_password_doesnt_show_up_in_the_terminal_when_i/
<TJ-> !encryption
<ubot5> For information on setting up encrypted private directories (8.10+) see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedPrivateDirectory
<TJ-> !encrypt
<TJ-> !luks
<TJ-> !fde
<TJ-> so useful.
<nicomachus> lol
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey hey OerHeks
<OerHeks> I am losing weight by the hour \0/
<lotuspsychje> whats going on?
<lotuspsychje> sick?
<OerHeks> forgot to do groceries
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> dont forget to eat mate :p
<OerHeks> bits and bytes, all i can find today are potatoes, spinach and some roast in the freezer
<TJ-> hiya :)
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<TJ-> "all" @ OerHeks ! ... that's a feast :)
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: make an oven dish of it
<OerHeks> true, with a nice gravy
<OerHeks> ..oh, apple sauce too!
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/geary-email-client-is-alive-and-kicking-geary-0-11-0-is-out-with-new-features-504092.shtml
<lotuspsychje> !info geary
<ubot5> geary (source: geary): lightweight email client designed for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.10.0-1ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 1465 kB, installed size 6791 kB
<lotuspsychje> yes yes
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/telegram-snap-package-ubuntu-16-04
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows a better !systemd url we got use for the trigger, so users can learn howto start/stop services?
<lotuspsychje> current one is bit outdated
<OerHeks> having breakfast, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/Food.JPG
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> mmmmm
<lotuspsychje> thats for a big hunger :p
<lotuspsychje> sure drabber doesnt need to help?
<OerHeks> there is more where that came from
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> yes, he offered to be volunteer.. i have his mom and aunt here too
<lotuspsychje> this looks like a cool systemd tut: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-systemctl-to-manage-systemd-services-and-units
<OerHeks> nice, but i miss systemd-analyze and the bootchart " systemd-analyze plot > filename.svg  "
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> also handy to know: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/simple-hack-to-use-skype-web-linux
<lotuspsychje> for users that dont wanna mess with skype linux physical install
<OerHeks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16463627/
<OerHeks> and besides that there are tons more commands
<lotuspsychje> we need a better systemd trigger, users keep asking commands in main
<lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<onyb> Can someone tell me since which Ubuntu version was "upstart" enabled by default?
<TJ-> onyb: see https://launchpad.net/upstart
<dax> 9.10 to 14.10, I think
<dax> !info nethack-curses yakkety
<ubot5> Package nethack-curses does not exist in yakkety
<dax> !info nethack-console yakkety
<ubot5> nethack-console (source: nethack): dungeon crawl game - text-based interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.6.0-3 (yakkety), package size 947 kB, installed size 2439 kB
<dax> yay
<nicomachus> TJ-: so good at support, he does it in two languages
<OerHeks> oh, i thought i knew her ..
<OerHeks> :-(
<onyb> It is 6.10 to 14.10, I guess. Ref: https://launchpad.net/upstart/+packages
<onyb> But I am not sure if upstart was the default option, instead of sysvinit.
<TJ-> onyb: not sure which release actually shipped it as the init system though
<OerHeks> xinit started with maverick 10.10 https://launchpad.net/xinit/+packages
<TJ-> onyb: 9.10 alpha 6
<Switches> Upstart was the default init from 6.10, it got native bootup in 9.10, and was ended in 15.04 as the default
<TJ-> huh?
<TJ-> no, it was added to the arrchives for 6.10, but it wasn't the default init until 9.10
<onyb> TJ-: So before 9.10 was sysvinit the default guy?
<Switches> it was actually the default for the user session in 6.10
<Switches> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstart its all on there
<Switches> "Upstart was first included in Ubuntu in the 6.10 (Edgy Eft) release in late 2006, replacing sysvinit"
<onyb> Switches, well the sentence might mean that upstart was meant as a replacement, but wasn't actually enabled by default. I time traveled and found this blog post: https://geeknme.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/getting-started-with-upstart-in-ubuntu
<Switches> it was user session only before 9.10, 9.10 it took over the bootup aswell as user sessions
<TJ-> it started out as just the init daemon, still using sysvinit scripts
<TJ-> 7.10 it took over mounting stuff like lvm, mdadm and so on
<TJ-> sorry, 7.04, then by 9.10 all the sysvinit jobs that could be were given upstart equivalents
<onyb> I think it was default since 6.10. Here is a post from 2006 mentioning that: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=285015
<TJ-> yes, but *only* for the /sbin/init process, no event-based jobs, everything was still sysvinit
<TJ-> if you want to know more jusk ask Scott
<Switches> For user sessions only (as in when you hit a CLI or UI, it didn't have bootup that was still sysvinit like TJ said.
<Switches> But I just saw the question as to when it was default, which as far as most the system apart from boot went was 6.10, 9.10 it took over completely from sysvinit. Debian I think had a big write up about it when they switched to it.
<onyb> Switches and TJ- I think I finally got the answer I was looking for.
<Switches> Great :)
<onyb> Switches, and TJ- Thanks a lot for your help. :)
<Switches> No worries, anytime.
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<TJ-> evening paul :)
<pauljw> :)
<EriC^^> hi pauljw :)
<EriC^^> !find vboxdrv
<ubot5> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 11 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=vboxdrv&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-05-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> shift change ! lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: found your hd issue yet?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well .. I cleaned the box, been stable so far ! .. still watching and waiting .
<lotuspsychje> ok, until the box running we need to use it right :p
<lotuspsychje> i one time had smoke out of a crt monitor after lighting
<lotuspsychje> then you know its real dead
<dax> !info nethack-console yakkety | lotuspsychje
<ubot5> lotuspsychje: nethack-console (source: nethack): dungeon crawl game - text-based interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.6.0-3 (yakkety), package size 947 kB, installed size 2439 kB
<dax> (Pici fixed it)
<lotuspsychje> dax: oh thank you!
<lotuspsychje> dax: we also have lots of users asking us systemd commands but i didnt found a good alternative url for !systemd yet
<Bashing-om> yeah ! Lightning is bad .. I have a long list of horror stories . We live at the Highest point on Devonshire Mountain . Back in the day that TV antenna was a lightening rod .
<dax> !systemd
<ubot5> systemd is the default init system for Ubuntu 15.04 onwards. For information on transitioning from upstart to systemd, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers
<lotuspsychje> dax: digital ocean had a nice systemctl guide, but then its really not ubuntu related
<Bashing-om> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-systemctl-to-manage-systemd-services-and-units
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats the one
<lotuspsychje> but then OerHeks found this url not having <OerHeks> nice, but i miss systemd-analyze and the bootchart " systemd-analyze plot > filename.svg  "
<Bashing-om> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Debugging/
<Bashing-om> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/systemd-blame.html
<lotuspsychje> not bad that second one, but then its really hard to find ubuntu related ones
<lotuspsychje> best scenario would be that guy editing current !systemd wiki
<Bashing-om> Anyway, it has been real, it has been fun - it has been real fun ! .. But, going horizontal for the duration .
<dax> what ubuntu-specific systemd info is there
<dax> i was under the impression it was pretty standard, even in Ubuntuland
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: night night mate
<lotuspsychje> dax: yeah systemd is indeed pretty universal, but doesnt it look bad if an url forward something to an arch page?
<Bashing-om> Yall can handle my light work . I gotta take a pause . Laters .
<lotuspsychje> laterz mate
<dax> meh, if it's the best source for the info...
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> that second link from bashing-om was neat
<lotuspsychje> morning TJ-
 * TJ- waves
<TJ-> how you doing?
<TJ-> that stacy is still at it since last night... I want to throw something :D
<TJ-> I'm playing with moving network interfaces off the host and into containers... but can't figure out how to retrieve the moved interface if things go TITSUP :P
<lotuspsychje> alot of network issues lately bah
<lotuspsychje> those persistent bugs keep showing up..not very cool on lts
<TJ-> which have you encountered?
<lotuspsychje> that network arrows instead of wifi icon bug
<lotuspsychje> and i need to restart network-manager sometimes to get it working
<TJ-> Oh, cosmetics in nmapplet, the fix for that was pushed out
<TJ-> there are some other issues... seems somehow the network-manager-gnome and network-manager packages got out of sync API wise
<dax> omg stacy- is still going
<Ben64> i'm going to cut my eyes out
<Ben64> i can't handle it
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i more run away when seeing curlyears :p
<lotuspsychje> he's doing support, but every day he finds something new to get solved for hours in main?
<Ben64> lets see if my link works
<dax> i take it the core issue here is she's trying to put her card in Infrastructure mode and it isn't happening?
<Ben64> who knows
<Ben64> she's stuck on repeat
<Ben64> it worked before
<Ben64> ubuntu should be user friendlier
<Ben64> it doesn't work, is there a bug
<dax> was "before" same hardware different Ubuntu version?
<dax> or different both
<Ben64> it worked before!
<TJ-> same hardware, possibly earlier release
<TJ-> in behaviour more like a troll doing a wind-up, 10 hours ago I asked for technical details and again this morning (my time) and still no actual technical replies. The IP address of the user is inside China which made me think there's a language barrier, especially as last night there was some mention of running questions/answers through a translator ( though that may have been another user!)
<Ben64> * sanket has quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
<Ben64> lol.
<TJ-> well it is a disgusting meat product :)
<dax> ayup, spambot killer misfired. trying to find an awake staffer :\
<Ben64> i mean it was technically spam
<dax> sigyn's only supposed to trigger on actual bots
<dax> not idiots
<Ben64> http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/aoz8kgx8pzknypz7z38n.jpg
<Ben64> oh sweet, android-x86 finally finished downloading
<Ben64> i hate how they made their iso un-wgettable
<brushdemon> kek
<brushdemon> I love that commercial
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ hows it going
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<lotuspsychje> sunny here, great!
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> zzZZZzzz in main :p
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> wb
<lotuspsychje> network problem stacy- is back lol
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, yeah, if someone didn't mention HIM about nmcli yesterday .
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-to-showcase-ubuntu-core-on-nxp-freescale-i-mx-6-hikey-at-oscon-2016-504157.shtml
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic yakkety
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.22.23 (yakkety), package size 2 kB, installed size 11 kB
<OerHeks> de-facto, that takes 5 clicks..
<de-facto> lol
<OerHeks> this tutor will not do, adhoc is peer-to-peer, no? https://help.ubuntu.com/16.04/ubuntu-help/net-wireless-adhoc.html
<OerHeks> "A network name (SSID) and security key are automatically generated. The network name will be based on the name of your computerA network name (SSID) and security key are automatically generated. The network name will be based on the name of your computer"
<OerHeks> oops
<lotuspsychje> morning hggdh
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: good morning. May the sun shine, birds sing, and whatever else
<lotuspsychje> yeah sunny here aswell :p
<de-facto> OerHeks well that one worked for me without any problems on Xenial with my usb ralink dongle
<OerHeks> just the adhoc in Networkmanager works fine too.
<OerHeks> i think there is a BIG difference between adapters, maybe his adapter does not work that well...
<OerHeks> so the statement 'i did it before' is just unbelievable, if you ask me
<de-facto> could be, i never went into the internals used behind the scenes by network manager, it just worked (tm)
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.22.23 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 11 kB
<OerHeks> (and switching too often to others/come up with a new problem) after a question)
<lotuspsychje> .40 is out on updates
<de-facto> OerHeks although its a bit inconvenient that there are no settings possible from within network manager, why the need for manually start "nm-connection-editor"? there should be a button for that in tehre
<OerHeks> shoot me, i confess .. dunno de-facto
<OerHeks> i am on 15.10 too.
<OerHeks> i have a small block-ish wifi adapter from sitecom, found sitting in a pc that people trown away with garbage, i didn't notice that untill i wanted to close the door to audio/usb/cardreader
<OerHeks> works fine 54 mbit
<OerHeks> .. err maybe that is the culprit, wireless N ...
<lotuspsychje> http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2014/09/3-ways-create-wifi-hotspot-ubuntu/
<OerHeks> and i wonder why nmtui ..
<OerHeks> mint user?
<OerHeks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> apt-cache doesnt show
<lotuspsychje> https://developer.gnome.org/NetworkManager/unstable/nmtui.html
<de-facto> but nmtui is network manager aswell, right? should just work imho...
<lotuspsychje> nmtui â Text User Interface for controlling NetworkManager
<OerHeks> standard available, lotus
<lotuspsychje> never used myself but looks like the text version of editing things right
<OerHeks> maybe he needs " sudo nmtui "
<de-facto> Dang, i hate when online stores advertise an explicit hardware version and then think they can deliver something else, and the customers wont care. Can typing a simple product code be THAT difficult? i ordered an LTE stick in 4 online shops already, they all said (and confirmed) its "E3372s-153" but then they ship me "E3372h-153" grrrrr
<lotuspsychje> ouch
<OerHeks> what is the difference? E3372s-153 vs E3372h-153
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<de-facto> the older E3372s can be flashed with a firmware which allows to use it as NCM device, many hacks for that out there, the E3372h-153 just shows itself as usb-ethernet device, its firmware is pretty much closed and just provides a webui. i dont want to be behind a NAT in the LTE stick, because i want to open ports on LTE network
<de-facto> it seems its very popular in russian hacker forums :P
<de-facto> and some LTE ISPs allow you to use the business APNs so you can open ports because you get a public ip then :)
<de-facto> but i dont understand why they advertise a explicit version in their online shops if they are unable to ship that then... i could understand if they used the generic name e3372 without any version but like that... its almost like fraud...
<OerHeks> hmmmm ...
<OerHeks> At time of writing, nmtui does not support all types of connections. In particular, you cannot edit VPNs, Wi-Fi connections using WPA Enterprise, or Ethernet connections using 802.1X
<de-facto> in "nm-connection-editor" GUI i could edit all those for my AP created from within wireless networks
<de-facto> but it really may depend on the backend used by network manager i guess
<OerHeks> here i get WEP too
<de-facto> can you change that in nm-connection-editor ?
<tgm4883> Just did FDE on a fresh install of 16.04, was expecting a lot more work to do that
<OerHeks> in nm i can set WPA, for ad-hoc
<OerHeks> not for AP
<de-facto> ah maybe it uses another AP backend then which just supports WEP for specific devices?
<OerHeks> lets ask a network-guru
<de-facto> haha nm-connection-editor lets me choose 5GHz but my adapter only can provide 2.4GHz, so if i tick that it says its online but actually it is not :P
<dax> omg she's still going
<de-facto> if she/he? just was that ambitious with using the network manager settings instead of asking for help she would be up and running by now
<lotuspsychje> https://opensource.com/life/16/5/conflict-resolution-primer
<lotuspsychje> welcome nacc
<nacc> lotuspsychje: thanks!
<lotuspsychje> chitchat about latest ubuntu news and support knowledges here :p
<nacc> works for me :)
<OerHeks> nacc, i want ad-hoc networking with wep in 4 clicks please
<lotuspsychje> :p
<nacc> OerHeks: heh, let me introduce you to stacy- :)
<lotuspsychje> haha
<nacc> I hear they are on their knees, for some reason.
<lotuspsychje> she finally got it fixxed
<nacc> well, at least they got their problem fixed, which is good
<lotuspsychje> anyone thinks geary would be nicer then thunderbird on a default users desktop?
<daftykins> OerHeks: ouch did someone really ask for that?
<OerHeks> no, with wpa, using nmtui
<pauljw> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> hi pauljw and EriC^^
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> the volunteers club keeps growing :p
<lotuspsychje> evening baizon
<lotuspsychje> baizon: you are the 53th user! you have won todays price: http://www.wilko.com/content/ebiz/wilkinsonplus/invt/0137542/0137542_l.jpg
<OerHeks> nice site lotuspsychje
<OerHeks> they even have a bug solver like us
<OerHeks> http://www.wilko.com/insecticides+pest-control/bugclear-ultra-gun-1l/invt/0263120
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> aww i needed a bucket
<lotuspsychje> more luck tomorrows price daftykins
 * daftykins crosses his fingers
<lotuspsychje> lol
<baizon> lotuspsychje: yay! :D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> it's ok, the bucket is to keep your ubuntu flash drives in
<OerHeks> i need a bigger one for all my networkcables
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've a box of cat6 here still, 305m when it was new, but i've cabled my house with it
<lotuspsychje> every time you fix a pc for someone, give a cable for free
<daftykins> mmm imagine that, a delightful wireless free experience for all your customers!
<lotuspsychje> i advise cable use :p
<lotuspsychje> who moves his laptop anyway?
<daftykins> XD
<lotuspsychje> business guys traveling planes
<daftykins> i still have no way to connect LAN or external displays to my lovely new Dell for the moment
<daftykins> TJ linked me to a nice cheap USB 3.0 LAN adapter, but i dunno!
<lotuspsychje> devolo
<lotuspsychje> over the power net
<daftykins> well that's not what i mean, the laptop just only has USB C form factor thunderbolt 3 :)
<lotuspsychje> ah
<daftykins> i am using a cheap powerline kit for the network streamer in my bedroom now though :)
<lotuspsychje> no eth port?
<daftykins> nope
<lotuspsychje> unk
<daftykins> super faster 802.11ac wifi though
<daftykins> 50MB/sec file copy i've seen it do :)
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> intel?
<daftykins> it's actually the broadcom/Dell card in there
<lotuspsychje> ok
<daftykins> i think it's a 2:2 stream config so 866Mbps ac max
<daftykins> i got that free new dualband -ac 3:3 router from my ISP so i can actually use it :D
<lotuspsychje> great
<daftykins> but yeah Â£180 for the Dell WD15 dock - http://media.bestofmicro.com/2/K/549596/gallery/Dell-Dock-WD15-2-_w_600.jpg
<lotuspsychje> oO
<daftykins> and that's the low end one...
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: dang
<daftykins> connects via USB C, but the bus is displayport instead of thunderbolt with that one
<lotuspsychje> + new graphics card
<lotuspsychje> you need that adress from OerHeks :p
<OerHeks> same price here, â¬229 incl VAT
<OerHeks> hurry ! hurry! it is limited free! ... http://www.webupd8.org/2016/05/limited-time-offer-to-get-insync-pro.html ... but only available on 14.04 grinn
 * lotuspsychje is gonna pass :p
<OerHeks> .. but .. is is free, man! lolz
<nacc> daftykins: i have a dell usb3 hub that's got dp ports and ethernet
<daftykins> yeah i wouldn't allow that, video over USB is laughable
<nacc> daftykins: eh, it works fine if you use http://www.displaylink.com/downloads/ubuntu
<daftykins> i don't run Linux and nope sorry never happening :)
<nacc> heh
<lotuspsychje> yesssss Bashing-om is here!
<daftykins> \o/
<lotuspsychje> we are saved!
<Bashing-om> Uh hih .. Getting ready to learn somethging else . Hoz the channel been ?
<nacc> for reference, daftykins, it's this one: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=452-BBPG. I thnk windows has native support
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: crowdy, we need desperate help :p
<daftykins> nacc: thanks yeah, seen it
<daftykins> i'm even iffy about the above cheaper displayport one :)
<nacc> heh
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Lemme finish strapping in .. I join ya for the ride .
<OerHeks> that curlypears is still bothering the channel with hardware failures ..
<lotuspsychje> every day he finds something new to troll
<Bashing-om> Yuk, "curly" huts my sense of propriety .. dare we direct .." read the manual" ?
<lotuspsychje> and does 'support' in between also
<Bashing-om> Hurts*
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: did that 20min boot issue got solved yet?
<EriC^^> systemd-analyze blame , learned that recently
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: how does that work?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Nope .. OP have up on the time it is taking to troubleshoot .. make up and liveDVD and run the commands to see the Logs . A big concern in trust not to break his work system .
<EriC^^> it shows the time for each process
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: A great tut for "blame" : http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/systemd-blame.html .
<EriC^^> wow mines slow
<EriC^^> Startup finished in 4.502s (firmware) + 2.339s (loader) + 4.911s (kernel) + 43.647s (userspace) = 55.401s
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: try systemd-analyze
<EriC^^> without blame
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> Startup finished in 5.084s (kernel) + 5.824s (userspace) = 10.908s
<lotuspsychje> whats userspace?
<EriC^^> services
<lotuspsychje> 11sec boot then?
<lotuspsychje> thats till login screen
<EriC^^> i think so
<lotuspsychje> after that its lightdm log
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I am still on old sponners .. and I boot to terminal from a cold start is @ 5 seconds on old dual Athlon board :)
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> ok bbl guys, movies with the miss
<Bashing-om> quality time !
<lotuspsychje> have a good one
<EriC^^> wb pauljw
<pauljw> ty :)
<EriC^^> :)
<OerHeks> dax, ~opidont@104.236.185.82 is back
<dax> OerHeks: yep. Looks like they tried the same thing in another channel, based on that second Sigyn kill
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-05-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> WB lotuspsychje .... Just like you left it .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om bumpy night?
<Bashing-om> Nawww ,,, not to rough ..
<lotuspsychje> great
<Bashing-om> think'n bout time to hang out the 'done' sign . Think'n getting forced .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: make sure tomorrow the sign 'alive' is back on your door :p
<lotuspsychje> done sounds real final hehe
<daftykins> >:)
<daftykins> just for today i hope!
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> mornin' o/
<lotuspsychje> yeah 8 hours pauze, we can 'live' with :p
<Bashing-om> yeah .. I do think I done done it .. time to retire it for this session . Read yall later .
<daftykins> phew :)
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje daftykins
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> my eyes are like @_@
<lotuspsychje> hey morning EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: watched triple 9 yet?
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> it was good
<daftykins> wussat o0
<EriC^^> volunteer down
<EriC^^> :p
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> o0
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: new cool movie
<daftykins> o rry
<daftykins> who's the volunteer down? that was me! ;)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: kinda like heat
<daftykins> is that a film?
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: dont tell me you didnt see heat :p
<daftykins> then i cannot type a response :D
<lotuspsychje> with deniro & al paccino
<daftykins> newp!
<lotuspsychje> gotta see it mate, best movie ever
<l0k1> ola algum brazuca?
<lotuspsychje> if you like action that is
<lotuspsychje> !english | l0k1
<ubot5> l0k1: The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xbBLJ1WGwQ
<EriC^^> i think i'm going to go to a place nearby and buy dvd's
<EriC^^> my friend used to get them from there, they have like everything before it even comes in the theaters almost, movie for like $1 or $2
<EriC^^> i saw like a ton of trailers on youtube last time and nothing on the torrent or other sites :/
<lotuspsychje> regular or bluray?
<EriC^^> regular :p
<daftykins> dat 80s trailer
<daftykins> er 90s i suppose :P
<daftykins> EriC^^: how is that allowed to keep going?
<daftykins> or do you have to say a code word then go into a back room ;)
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: did you learn clutch very good yet?
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: movie is much better then the 'old' trailer :p
<EriC^^> hehe
<daftykins> i'm just teasing :>
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yes, its starting to come
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but i will never be a real fan of it
<lotuspsychje> when this car dead, i want automatic
<lotuspsychje> i know its lame but..
<EriC^^> to each their own
<EriC^^> i was going to tell you to get that ticket to leb and come to drive my car and buy me stuff
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> haha
<EriC^^> fuck my laziness
<daftykins> XD
<lotuspsychje> a trunk full of blurays
<daftykins> next you'll invite OerHeks and try to keep his dog Drabber to fetch you food from the kitchen
<daftykins> !
<EriC^^> i had it under control for a couple of days, i cleaned the car a bit, changed the fan clutch, fixed the tires and also tried to install the strut brace
<lotuspsychje> we all need to win the lottery
<EriC^^> the weather was too hot later, it reached 34'c O.o so i called it quits til it gets better
<EriC^^> it usually barely reaches 34'c in the summer here
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> we had 27 last week and its only may...
<lotuspsychje> let the heat summer come :p
<EriC^^> yeah it's odd
<daftykins> hey waiddaminute there are TWO Tripolis!
<lotuspsychje> trip what?
<EriC^^> where is the second one? :o
<daftykins> it's a city
<lotuspsychje> oh
<daftykins> one in north Lebanon, one in north-west Libya
<EriC^^> tripoli is a city in lebanon, it's pretty remote from the main city beirut though
<EriC^^> oh, not that remote really
<EriC^^> i dunno why i was thinking saida
<daftykins> EriC^^: you do all that funky right to left writing down there then? :>
<EriC^^> haha yeah
<daftykins> actually i don't know why i think it's right to left
<EriC^^> i've not written in arabic in like ages probably
<daftykins> hmm you can get away without?
<EriC^^> yeah most everything is in english or french here too
<EriC^^> i basically only used in arabic in arabic classes
<lotuspsychje> cool so you speak french also?
<EriC^^> lol no i was in an english educated school, i speak a little though
<lotuspsychje> ah oui!
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> EriC^^: does the country have many folks coming over from Syria?
<EriC^^> yeah i think so
<EriC^^> it's becoming a problem i think
<daftykins> erk
<EriC^^> i'm not much into politics, they all suck basically
<EriC^^> everybody's a crook here in politics
<daftykins> *nod* yeah i don't follow any
<EriC^^> i have a sick idea for a youtube channel
<EriC^^> it's kind of funny or silly i guess
<lotuspsychje> youtube is gonna start paying services
<EriC^^> paying what?
<lotuspsychje> like netflix and such
<EriC^^> it's really silly i think, i just typed it out and felt even more silly
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what would it be about?
<EriC^^> basically i put a camera inside the car, and maybe a drone that can follow the car
<EriC^^> well basically just going about lebanon driving and taking pics
<lotuspsychje> sounds cool
<EriC^^> and doing some sideway action and going up hill and stuff mountain roads
<EriC^^> also i was thinking at night i could film races with people
<lotuspsychje> a lebanon sightseeing channel
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> yeah and at night i just drive around
<EriC^^> and when somebody wants to have fun i can also film it
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> then afterwards they all sue you for copyrights :p
<EriC^^> i get a lot of people who want to have fun and stuff cause the car is pretty much a classic
<EriC^^> and it has an engine swap, so it's pretty fast too, it can walk over the nissan 350z and stuff and give other cars a run for their money
<EriC^^> it used to be twin turbo'd though before, and it was pretty sick, i wanted 600-ish hp from it and i only got to make it like 380bhp or so ( from 320bhp) so it was really low boost from the turbos
<EriC^^> but it was pretty sick with the turbo's, the torque was insane
<lotuspsychje> the streets are good to drive fast?
<EriC^^> yeah the highways are pretty good
<EriC^^> other streets as well
<EriC^^> beirut is all good
<lotuspsychje> mountains little rougher?
<EriC^^> the main roads are pretty good they get tarmac'd every year or so
<EriC^^> the old mountain stuff are rough though
<EriC^^> like village stuff or places far that aren't main
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> those drones are pretty sick
<daftykins> ooh it's raining just like the weather app predicted!
<EriC^^> they shoot 4k and they can go for 4km and they can follow you around perfectly filming
<EriC^^> obstacle avoidance and auto come back and land and stuff
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah gonna rain here aswell later
<EriC^^> costs $1400 though O.o
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: i'll send it over with a note! :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: if one day a drone reaches my face, ill smack it down
<EriC^^> would be so funny if it fell into some mountain side, no way
<lotuspsychje> and take the hardware apart :p
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> i think you'd be too busy getting chewed up by rotor blades ;)
<lotuspsychje> privacy man
<EriC^^> yeah lol
<EriC^^> you'll shoot arial shots and stuff
<lotuspsychje> next drones will film us while naked baking in your own yard?
<EriC^^> you bake naked in your yard?
<lotuspsychje> no, but i could :p
<EriC^^> lol
 * EriC^^ note to never eat doughnuts at lotus's house
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> how about a hotdog?
<daftykins> if you're offering
<daftykins> bbq \o/
<lotuspsychje> sure, or some tasty durum
<lotuspsychje> nice we have google streeview to watch stuff around the world
<daftykins> hehe except for over here ;)
<daftykins> i think they came over and filmed, then our government said NEWP!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> where is that again?
<daftykins> Channel Islands :)
<lotuspsychje> https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?t=k&oe=UTF8&msa=0&ie=UTF8&om=1&mid=1bSxM6h_SpUuDfNhFmOV0t3Oisg0
<lotuspsychje> lol a part of a street oO
<lotuspsychje> i wanna walk!
<daftykins> nah wrong one
<lotuspsychje> ah its aus?
<daftykins> that's the only bigger one, look for the triangle :>
<daftykins> nah correct area
<lotuspsychje> jersey ok
<daftykins> i live on Guernsey
<daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/1rRCqpcLoK62
<daftykins> hey there's the cycle lane i ride :>
<lotuspsychje> ah nice
<lotuspsychje> streeview is so complicated grrr
<lotuspsychje> wow the sea looks so nice
<daftykins> it's a trap, even when it does it's cold as ice
<daftykins> >:D
<lotuspsychje> even is summer?
<lotuspsychje> in
<daftykins> hehe yeah last time i went to a nice bay it was
<daftykins> like electric running up my leg!
<daftykins> *TTZZZT*
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> there's a lot of nice pics of leb in google
<EriC^^> https://www.google.com.lb/maps/place/Beirut/@33.8886289,35.4954794,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s-FEF_Xcs67GU%2FVqjTXo1WMmI%2FAAAAAAAAAZ4%2FM_cBDw8O3wEfyMtpUQZiYKu5nqwHk5q2g!2e4!3e12!6s%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-FEF_Xcs67GU%2FVqjTXo1WMmI%2FAAAAAAAAAZ4%2FM_cBDw8O3wEfyMtpUQZiYKu5nqwHk5q2g%2Fs203-k-no%2F!7i1024!8i683!4m5!3m4!1s0x151f17215880a78f:0x729182bae99836b4!8m2!3d33.8886575!4d35.4954529!6m1!1e1?hl=en
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> this ones pretty awesome https://www.google.com.lb/maps/place/Beirut/@33.8886289,35.4954794,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s-IHqMgnvFq3A%2FVqdsTYB79UI%2FAAAAAAAAAIE%2Fi8MoLl8MrFEFJHwU69Mui5nO8-k9uj8sQ!2e4!3e12!6s%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-IHqMgnvFq3A%2FVqdsTYB79UI%2FAAAAAAAAAIE%2Fi8MoLl8MrFEFJHwU69Mui5nO8-k9uj8sQ%2Fs218-k-no%2F!7i1920!8i880!4m5!3m4!1s0x151f17215880a78f:0x729182bae99836b4!8m2!3d33.8886575!4d35.4954529!6m1!1e1?hl=en
<daftykins> ooh
<EriC^^> i always feel like taking a camera and taking pics when i go out driving
<daftykins> two tall buildings on the left look unfinished at the top :>
<daftykins> do it :D be neat to see you guys areas
<EriC^^> then i think it's kind of stupid cause you wont enjoy the view as much
<lotuspsychje> nice
<daftykins> that's why you take a tonne of pics and stitch 'em together :D
<lotuspsychje> http://street360.net/#51.20936;3.22474;-111.72;4;1;7;1;h;0
<lotuspsychje> this is where i live
<EriC^^> you live in a souvenirs store? O.o
<EriC^^> j/k
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> goodmeurning
<EriC^^> good morning
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i sell donuts :p
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> at first i was scared it was a doughnuts shop
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: we are showing off street views of our city
<lotuspsychje> giaqor: morning
<OerHeks> nice site lotus, http://street360.net/#52.35605;4.65729;57.15;11.42;0.34;12;1;h;0 this is where i live
<OerHeks> faster than google mups
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> i choose to believe vlamingstraat is Flaming Street
<OerHeks> EriC^^ is living in Beirut??
<daftykins> lotus lives on flaming street, rawr
<EriC^^> wow that's really cool
<EriC^^> yeah OerHeks
<OerHeks> vlamingstraat with childrenheads
<daftykins> OerHeks: is the pedestrian crossing pole still leaning over drunk like that? :>
<OerHeks> i would swear you live in England, nm
<lotuspsychje> yeah better then google maps that site
<OerHeks> still leaning over indeed
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys breakfast :p
<lotuspsychje> donuts :p
<daftykins> !
<OerHeks> vlamingstraat, that will be 1.5 day bicycling for donuts..
<daftykins> maybe we should all turn up uninvited on the same day so lotus can order in 50 for us ;D
<OerHeks> odd, 2 guys in #kubuntu, both cannot type the letter K in konsole..
<OerHeks> yeah, surprice visit
<daftykins> maybe they wore out the K from speaking about all the programs that start with K?
<OerHeks> onsole?
<OerHeks> daftyins
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> onsole from the eyboard
<OerHeks> he is still thinking about my advise: soap & water
<EriC^^> i have a sticky "," key
<EriC^^> the "l" was sticky i poured some "easy" window cleaner on it and it seems to have fixed it
<EriC^^> that stuff is brutal, if you pour it on some plastic it it heats it up, but it cleans really well
<daftykins> suddenly you were running windows ;D
<daftykins> a 'clean' install :>
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> wow the weather is perfect here today
<OerHeks> here too, and someone sended me money, so i am singing
<EriC^^> sun isn't hot, and the air feels clean and a light breeze and some white clouds
<OerHeks> little cloudy, but nice temp
<daftykins> then the doughnuts are on OerHeks! :D
<OerHeks> !find donuts
<ubot5> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 11 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=donuts&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
 * lotuspsychje sending his network-manager bug
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1583114
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1583114 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Dhcpdiscover loops on interval until network-manager restart" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> there we go
<lotuspsychje> anyone find a clue here, let me know :p
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje, what's up today?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: just arrived, trying to solve my recent bug 1583114
<ubot5> bug 1583114 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Dhcpdiscover loops on interval until network-manager restart" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583114
<lotuspsychje> hi there rilleh :p
<lotuspsychje> and TJ-
<rilleh> Whadapp
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  this is on your laptop, right?  I have the dame BCM4313 on my lenovo, I just opened the network manager "edit connections" and deleted the ethernet connection. It reappears after a reboot but at leasr the annoyance is gone for the session
<BluesKaj> dame=same
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yep my netbook here
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: but i also wanna use the ethernet at some times aswell
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: did you notice that the wifi connection is called "Wired connection 2" ?
<BluesKaj> yeah, it reappears after a reboot , not a fix but it's a workaround
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: weird, in network connections/edit its named belkin7 1
<TJ-> <warn>  [1463567736.9384] device (wlp7s0): Activation: failed for connection 'Wired connection 2'
<TJ-> i'd suggest deleting all the connections and recreating the Wifi connection first
<lotuspsychje> ok lemme try that first
<lotuspsychje> and reboot
<BluesKaj> I think an upgrade eventually fixed it here, I haven't seen that problem since , actually
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: lol wifi shows as cable arrows now
<TJ-> that's the unity issue with NM and network-manager-gnome I guess
<TJ-> but is it working correctly now? any more sign of the DHCP failing?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: well its hard to say, as this issue doesnt arise every boot
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: ill keep an eye on it next few boots
<lotuspsychje> ok, changed to ignore ipv6 and all users can connect to it
<lotuspsychje> lets see what it does on reboot
<lotuspsychje> wifi icon is back now
<TJ-> it went out to lunch :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ill update the bug so far
<lotuspsychje> and see what it does next reboots
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: howto check if network names are good now?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: read syslog
<lotuspsychje> not seeing connection2 anymore
<lotuspsychje> belink7 1
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: http://mixing.dj/2016/livesets/adam-beyer-drumcode-302-13-05-2016/
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<brushdemon> elky: We need to talk
<TJ-> !grub
<ubot5> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<OerHeks> nom nom nom http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/geforce-gtx-1070
<OerHeks> daftykins ^^
<lotuspsychje> hi de-facto
<de-facto> Hey guys :)
<lotuspsychje> hi there
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/mark-shuttleworth-we-are-at-our-best-when-we-are-constantly-improving-504182.shtml
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: good morning
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/snappy-ubuntu-core-power-innovative-digital-signage
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: a very good morning to you
<lotuspsychje> man that curlyears found another trolling way again oO
<nacc> lotuspsychje: :)
<lotuspsychje> cant believe that guy is doing support also
<TJ-> is that what you call it?
<lotuspsychje> loll
<lotuspsychje> ok 'trying' to do support
<TJ-> pink noise?
<lotuspsychje> he helped users for hours the other day
<nacc> heh
<lotuspsychje> god help em :
<lotuspsychje> :p
<TJ-> You know... 16.04's sheer number of bugs is exhausting me mentally
<TJ-> Every day I aim to do something, I'm sidetracked dealing with yet more regressions that require diagnosing, isolating, and reporting.
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i know its crazy
<TJ-> this has to be the worst LTS ever
<TJ-> and its not just in the fluffy stuff (GUI) its core stuff
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: most tiring is the returning bugs, that actually should be solved and not return at all
<TJ-> yes, regressions all over
<nacc> are you seeing patterns at all? we could create rules for them, aiui, in launchpad
<TJ-> the QA fell down on this one for sure. Dev's need to be tied to the unit-test chassis for all new code!
<TJ-> nacc: no, it's literally across the entire code base. I think I reported/diagnosed (fixed a few) about 25 in the 1st week or so
<nacc> TJ-: :/
<TJ-> the common thread is the causes mostly feel "sloppy"
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, i've fixed several,b ut mostly stuff i introduced because of the php7 transition :)
<lotuspsychje> well i wouldnt call it the worst, as there is also good news really
<lotuspsychje> but returning bugs on lts is not very pleasant
<nacc> are they bugs with corresponding tests? that seems to be the biggest gap i've seen
<nacc> things get fixed, but no autopkgtest for it gets written, so it can regress and no one will notice
<lotuspsychje> kernel 4.6 also fixxes alot of xenial stuff
<nacc> lotuspsychje: ack, esp. skylake stuff
<TJ-> I was on a remote server support overnight, in a DC, 16.04 ubuntu-server ISO in 'expert' mode fails to install (configure) the kernel... why... because devtmpfs isn't mounted into /target/ so the root file-system's device cannot be located... why ... live-installer's postinst script comments out the step that mounts proc dev etc into the /target/ ... and no commit history, no changelog, as to why or
<TJ-> when
<nacc> intel found tons of bugs lately
<lotuspsychje> nacc: yeah
<TJ-> these 'little' things suck the time out of life
<lotuspsychje> i agree, we should be able to focus on newer things then older bugs
<TJ-> whilst doing that I also noticed the installer fails to reset the /dev/disk/by-uuid/ link names if installing to existing partitions but reformatting them, so UUID matching fails
<TJ-> I think when we get to the 'Z' release we should suspend the next release for 12 months and have everyone focus on fixing the bugs
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: ive been on xenial on the start fixing bugs
<TJ-> we've got terrible documentation bitrot, we've lost the UDD so there's no fine-grained commit history for most packages, and its impossible to know where the source code for the package is being managed
<nacc> TJ-: that's a kernel bug, no?
<lotuspsychje> i wanna stick lts
<nacc>   /dev/disk is managed by the kernel
<TJ-> nacc: no, it's base-installer/debian-installer, failing to tell udev to redo the links
<nacc> TJ-: ah
<nacc> TJ-: for server side, we're working on it :)
<TJ-> nacc: installer does a mkfs.XXXX /dev/sdaY but there's no event add/change event for udev to redo the links
<nacc> TJ-: the "release" part of the server side is getting some more dedicated folks, it's a konwn issue
<TJ-> nacc: it sure needs it, I'm getting tired!
<nacc> TJ-: i'm one of those folks, if it matters :)
<TJ-> there was a period when i actually felt proud of the new releases, but now I feel more like "uh-oh, brown stuff is about to hit the fan!"
<nacc> TJ-: so while we may not have a perfect source solution going forward (ack on that sometimes being tricky), we are going to be introducing some git tracking for merges and fixes in the server-maintained pacakges
<TJ-> nacc: well, if you need any more bodies that can fix stuff, shout me! anything to get these bugs cleared and a stable viable quality back
<lotuspsychje> also ubuntu going the mobile way, its prudent not getting old bugs on new OTA's and stuff
<TJ-> I've been working on Ubuntu since 2005 and its getting not to be fun
<lotuspsychje> but so many things are changing here
<nacc> TJ-: i think up to my joining the team, there was just 1 person on server for years just doing the maintenance, and it was going unnoticed :/
<nacc> TJ-: i think the other issue is the 'ubuntu server' community (in my experience so far) is quite small and not very active in the fixing of bugs (beyond filing them :). We're now actively triaging again which will help
 * TJ- shakes head ... too much chasing dreams instead of delivering quality
<nacc> TJ-: 100%
<lotuspsychje> agree
<nacc> TJ-: for better or worse, they've realized it's a mistake now, at least
<TJ-> nacc: it is pretty hard to miss :D
<nacc> TJ-: you'd be surprisded (without going into the politics of it all)
<TJ-> the 'pull things inside Canonical' approach that started back in about 2007 was the first sign I noticed when the creep started
<TJ-> Let's hope that by the next 'A' release sanity has been restored
<nacc> TJ-: i'm unfortunately ignorant of that stuff beyond being a user at the time (and not having any issues I couldn't solve myself)
<nacc> TJ-: but i will work on continuing to champion for community interaction and involvement -- it seems a bit difficult to get htat going again at this point
<TJ-> it was subtle, I only noticed it early because I was a member of the Ubuntu kernel team. without warning it suddenly became the "Canonical kernel team' with no notice or explanation; mailing-list content dropped off, visibility for the community was lost, and then I noticed it elsewhere
<nacc> TJ-: sad.
<TJ-> indeed, it's how to lose the dev community
<nacc> absolutely
<nacc> tbh, it's a control issue -- and i think canonical still doesn't fully know (not meant as a pejorative) how to manage both sides (still learning)
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<nacc> that's at least how it seems to me
<nacc> i was at ibm before this and they had similar issues at the levels outside the linux division in terms of understanding the community 'cost' of doing enterprise work. you don't get it for free, in other words
<TJ-> Yes, and I can understand it with IBM, but Canonical started from the community, employing the core Debian devs and so on, so it doesn't really have a great excuse... except the out-in-plain-sight joke-but-not-a-joke nickname of SADFL
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, that part is sad
<nacc> TJ-: if you have any great ideas on how to revitalize (in particular) the server community, i'd love to hear them :)
<TJ-> I've worked full time on Ubuntu since 2005, but outside of Canonical's sphere, just to invest into the F/OSS community, so I guess I've got more exposure to it than most
<TJ-> nacc: ship fantastic code and documentation - simple
<nacc> TJ-: :)
<TJ-> nacc: I used to run/own a group of IT businesses but sold out back in 2004, so I can pick and chose what I do now, and F/OSS is my 'work' I guess
<TJ-> I prefer the tech to the C* roles
<nacc> TJ-: it's a fair point, though -- i think i view it as a bit of chicken & egg. There aren't enough cnaonical folks to make "fantastic code and documentation" and add new features. And I doubt that there will ever be a release freeze (just my opinion) just to fix bugs. So the best way to improve code and documentation is to get more eyes and hands on it ... how to do that effectively is the question
<TJ-> nacc: but there is an artificial 6 month 'sprint', rather than setting a quality deadline, its a calendar dealine regardless of quality
<nacc> TJ-: ack i've noticed that too
<TJ-> customers will forgive slipped deadlines; they won't long forgive shoddy buggy incomplete regressing code
<nacc> that's what i would think too
<nacc> i'm not privy to that level of discussion yet :)
<TJ-> there's a reason RedHat turns over US$2bn
<nacc> TJ-: yep
<nacc> and why people are ok running RHEL5 still :)
<TJ-> precisely :)
<nacc> RHEL4 probably too (even if not really supported)
<TJ-> nacc: 1 step on the road to improving server (shameless plug!) is to see bug 1582899 gets attention and the ISO images respun to contain the fix
<ubot5> bug 1582899 in live-installer (Ubuntu) "in-target: mkinitramfs: failed to determine device for /" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582899
<TJ-> i pinged cyphermox about it earlier but didn't see a reply; cjwatson no longer deals with that; not sure who else other than those two (who have changelog entries)
<nacc> TJ-: i'll do what i can to at least make it a release bug
<nacc> TJ-: as presumably it's still borken in yakkety and then i'll help sru it
<TJ-> nacc: the problem is because we have no reliable commit history I've no way of knowing who, or why, the bug was introduced ... so frustrating
<nacc> TJ-: yep
<TJ-> Another area that could do with attention is the Secure Boot + OS verification chain. Currently the Ubuntu specific GRUB patches adding certificate verification of kernel images will still load an unsigned vmlinuz image
<nacc> ugh
<nacc> yeah, i'm glad i've never touched secure boot
<nacc> :)
<TJ-> I've an interest in the crypto side, am writing code for GRUB mainline to add LUKS keyfile, detached header support, and working on U2F or challenge/response for Yubikey-like devices
<nacc> nice!
<TJ-> it would be nice to be able to secure the entire chain, starting from Secure Boot through kernel loading, and in addition have PID 1 provide hashes of all packaged executables (from /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.md5sums/shasums) to a (new) kernel module (which I'm designing and wull write) so the kernel can prevent any non-signed code being executed
<nacc> that feels like it would have been the goal all along :)
<TJ-> there's a big valuable market in secured systems now, both server and laptop
<nacc> absolutely
<TJ-> if someone would stop introducing bugs faster than I can fix them I might get time to write that code before 2020 :D
<nacc> heh
<nacc> TJ-: well, i thank you for all the assistance i've seen you provide on IRC and in bugs already
<TJ-> that's my choice, a way to keep close to the fundamentals, no thanks required. Although, you could lock some of the Canonical decision makers in the ubuntu support channels for a week until they understand how much quality is suffering
<TJ-> I used to make my directors spend 1 week every 4 months doing front line support; has a wonderful effect on quality and customer satisfaction
<TJ-> (especially the Sales Director, to ensure he didn't oversell the promises, or undersell our capabilities)
<nacc> heh, wish I had that kind of power
<nacc> I'll just try to be noisier in meetings :)
<TJ-> it's one of the perks of being the 'dictator' :D
<nacc> TJ-: yeah :)
<TJ-> oh, one thing about the online UDS format... make everything that is used F/OSS, drop the reliance on proprietary stuff that excludes anyone that doesn't use, for example, Google Hangouts
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, i've wondered about that
<TJ-> that was the stupidest decision ever for a F/OSS dev community
<TJ-> gave me the same feeling as the kernel-team event
<TJ-> a F/OSS distro company should be boasting and showcasing the open alternatives and dog-fooding them
<nacc> agree
<Bashing-om> Well, close to that time ( Howdy Doody time ) and here I am. Let's see what we can learn this day .
<daftykins> >:)
<OerHeks> :-D
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Is alive and well ? Keeping all systems in the island ironed out .
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> yes sir-ee, today i have glorious news for my subjections to windows 7 reinstalls
<daftykins> right now they take a day to update, but yay! https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsitpro/2016/05/17/simplifying-updates-for-windows-7-and-8-1/
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Not looked but my solution to updating Windows a lot of years past ....... install ubuntu .
<daftykins> ;)
<OerHeks> fear of startbuttons, i suffer
<Bashing-om> Acutely so when that buttton supposed to do Windows :)
<daftykins> fun to be sat in cmd for the first time in ages
<EriC^^> evening everyone
<Bashing-om>  wb EriC^^ . Looks like a 'testy' time on the channel .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: thank you
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Now that Spring is here . gainful employment opportunity arose ?
<EriC^^> nah
<EriC^^> not looking much my man
<pauljw> hi EriC^^
<Bashing-om> Peehaps for the best ? I happen to like not puncing someone else's clock :)
<EriC^^> hi pauljw :)
<pauljw> :)
<EriC^^> yeah i dont like to work
<EriC^^> i mean to have a 9-5 schedule and also a "boss"
<EriC^^> maybe make money on my own somehow or a freelancing job
<Bashing-om> Ah but the downside .. no ficial recompense. no can buy that new SSD that is so desired .
<Bashing-om> Daughters 37 and 41 think I should continue to support them .. go back to a J O B ... My Heels are scooting !
<EriC^^> 37 and 41 O.o
<OerHeks> 78 together
<EriC^^> wb daftykins
<Bashing-om> Re-adjust their priorities .. They are raised and resposible for their own . huh ? Daddy not buying that new car .. when I want a 8 core Athlon system .
<EriC^^> haha
<daftykins> ty sir!
<daftykins> note to self, never experiment from your own server
<Bashing-om> daftykins: One of those times when " I think I can " ?
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> doh
<EriC^^> 37 and 41 ages
<EriC^^> i thought numbers 37 and 41
<Bashing-om> Now I would be prolific .. I do not evsn wish !  .. I do infer ages .... ages !
<OerHeks> oh, not shoesize?
<OerHeks> oke
<EriC^^> lol i thought it was a joke or something
<daftykins> nah i'm just integrating this update rollup into a windows 7 install image file, but to do so you have to mount the image first... then i got file locks trying to unmount it, so had to reboot my server
<daftykins> and since this IRC client runs on a VM on that host, i had to come back ;)
<daftykins> nothing but a learning experience! :)
<Bashing-om> wharever does not kill the server .. just makes it stonger .,. yes ?
<daftykins> very true! lives to die another day
<Bashing-om> LOL
<daftykins> cue James Bond theme ;)
<daftykins> this is quite cringe, my win7 ISO contains all 4 flavours of win7, i have to apply the updates to _all 4_ to make this image install for each flavour
<daftykins> quite a lot of work if i don't ever do any win7 installs again ;)
<daftykins> a better person would have scripted this...
<Bashing-om> daftykins: 3rd time around .. you will .
<daftykins> actually i have begun immediately! buahahaha!
<daftykins> "if not today, when?"
<Bashing-om> Axiom ; Never do today, what you can put off 'til tomorrow - leaves more time for IRC .
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> this is actually my idea of fun
<Bashing-om> I relate to what is fun . I have begun the preliminaries to have 16.04 on a SSD .. planning the partitioning I will do this time around .
<daftykins> excellent :D
<daftykins> then it shall be welcome to the fast lane!
<Bashing-om> And on the wish list is that nicer Nvidia Graphic's card .
<daftykins> i'm itching for these new ones too so i can upgrade
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-05-19
<pauljw> gnite everyone
<LambdaComplex> Bashing-om: i can irc today. should i put that off until tomorrow?
<daftykins> XD
<Bashing-om> LambdaComplex: Ouch ... There is such a thing as sin ... Only you can answer for abstaining from IRC .
<Bashing-om> WAIT .. Now how about those hundreds that await the words of wisdom ???
<juanmapalad> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<nicomachus> !LTS
<ubot5> LTS means Long Term Support. Until 12.04 LTS versions of Ubuntu were supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; since 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) LTS versions will be supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04)
<nicomachus> !xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.04 LTS (Xenial Xerus) is the current release of Ubuntu. Download at http://www.ubuntu.com/download - Read the release notes at http://ubottu.com/y/xenial
<nicomachus> !LTSupgrade
<ubot5> Users of 14.04 LTS will be offered the automatic upgrade when 16.04.1 LTS is released, which is scheduled for July 21st.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> o/ lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Been a good session .
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> ill start with cuppa tea
<Bashing-om> Good way to start the day .
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> o/
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> another day, another local unit of currency :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<juanmapalad> hello
<Ben64> another stuffed shirt with another white collar
<lotuspsychje> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/
<daftykins> Ben64: smart look today? :>
<Ben64> going off your almost rhyme
<lotuspsychje> hi juanmapalad
<juanmapalad> sup
<daftykins> i keep hearing it's already compromised (TOR)
<daftykins> never used it though
<lotuspsychje> same here
<lotuspsychje> real anonymity is being john doe
<lotuspsychje> not hiding with tools
<lotuspsychje> http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-steal-25-billion-from-your-bank-with-a-few-clicks/#ftag=RSSbaffb68
<lotuspsychje> this what happens when millions of people use the 'easy' banking apps
<daftykins> mmm, mine pushes a smartphone app... i can't think of anything more ridiculous
<daftykins> especially given how folks don't even secure their phones
<lotuspsychje> what is a secure phone? :p
<daftykins> certainly isn't one, but those that don't even have a lock screen pattern/PIN/pass
<daftykins> not another one :/ http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/may/19/egyptair-plane-cairo-paris-live-updates
<lotuspsychje> so weird this
<lotuspsychje> do we have bermuda triangles in the sky now?
<daftykins> https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ms804/#9c0b766 oy
<daftykins> seems so
<EriC^^> morning daftykins lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey EriC^^
<daftykins> heya \o
<Bashing-om> OK, guys .. enough is enough .. calling it for this session .
<daftykins> aww missed 'im
<EriC^^> ps4 or xbox 360
<daftykins> those are two different generations :)
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> what's the new xbox
<daftykins> xbox one!
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> ps4 or xbox one?
 * lotuspsychje takes out his comodore 64
<daftykins> hehe
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> i think which camp you go for depends solely on which you like the games of
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> i'm more of a nintendo guy
<daftykins> those guys have a new console coming too!
<EriC^^> i grew up playing golden eye, fox64, mario, stuff like that
<lotuspsychje> all consoles had cool games
<lotuspsychje> sega aswell
<lotuspsychje> some games are real legendary right
<EriC^^> nintendo64 had so many
<lotuspsychje> mario bros,altered beast,street fighter,pit fighter
<lotuspsychje> i like those oldskool luna park games :p
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yesterday i tried putting the 42" in the living room
<lotuspsychje> oh?
<EriC^^> it wasn't all that bad, you can still pass on both sides
<lotuspsychje> great!
<EriC^^> yeah i was pretty bummed, i cant stand the 32" i feel like punching it sometimes
<lotuspsychje> full screen smplayer working nice?
<EriC^^> should have gotten a 40" 1080
<daftykins> all the peas! all the inches!
<lotuspsychje> i got a 27" HP lcd for my desktop
<lotuspsychje> full screen movies does the trick for me
<EriC^^> 32" feels like you're watching a micro tv from a distance a little
<EriC^^> like you're looking into something
<EriC^^> 42" is like in your face watching something
<lotuspsychje> depends how far you sit of course
<EriC^^> 32" i feel like saying hi little guy how are you doing?
<EriC^^> then maybe smack it with a baseball bat and put it out of its misery
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> d'aww poor little TV, gift it to someone in need :P
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yeah man, sell it again, buy your wish
<EriC^^> i really like the plasma though
<lotuspsychje> dont you have a second hand website in lebanon?
<EriC^^> there is but i dont think it'll sell for much
<daftykins> i always found an idle buzz and too high power consumption in plasma
<EriC^^> i got it for like $240
<daftykins> old tech getting killed off now too
<EriC^^> it'll sell maybe $100 i guess
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: screen wash, pÃ»t in original box and ask 200
<lotuspsychje> how old is it?
<lotuspsychje> months?
<EriC^^> not worth it really, dunno what to do with it though, for the saloon i want to eventually maybe get a 55" , i can maybe put it on the closed balcony
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> so there's still 2 years warranty, for someones kitchen
<EriC^^> daftykins: yeah it feels hot, yesterday it even made the living room kind of warm
<daftykins> hehe
<EriC^^> but i love how there's a glass at the front of the screen
<daftykins> i've a 55 in my lounge
<EriC^^> the 32" feels so cheap and odd
<EriC^^> it's like plastic and very matte colored
<EriC^^> the plasma feels more like an old fashioned tv somehow, and the picture feels more vibrant and warm at the same time
<lotuspsychje> or...get real angry in the store and say you got wrongly informed lol
<lotuspsychje> and ask another tv
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> you said 32 was going big!
<lotuspsychje> i need a 55!!
<EriC^^> if i knew someone who worked there probably could get a sweet deal
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: there's a dutch online store with a takeover formula for phones also
<EriC^^> 55 is sick
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: send back your 'older' smartphone and get a voucher for a new buy
<EriC^^> i used a meter to see how big it would be
<EriC^^> crazy
<EriC^^> daftykins: it is a 55" 1080 samsung?
<daftykins> yep, 2012 model
<daftykins> UE55ES6800
<EriC^^> sweet
<lotuspsychje> i got UE8000 40" also from older year (1600$)
<lotuspsychje> but the blurays playing flawless
<lotuspsychje> with this mediaplayer: http://www.mede8er.eu/en/
<lotuspsychje> plays all codecs and formats
<lotuspsychje> up to 2TB hd you can place inside
<daftykins> i remember the 8000 was the 2013 model with voice control and all the gimmicky stuff
<lotuspsychje> i got only 3D and smarttv
<lotuspsychje> but the smarttv feels old
<lotuspsychje> newer models are faster, better
<EriC^^> wow the amount of games exclusive to either ps4 or xbox one are massive
<EriC^^> i thought it was just gran turismo for ps4 and a couple games for xbox
<EriC^^> ps4 seems to have more exclusive games though
<EriC^^> not sure of quality of them though
<EriC^^> http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_Games_vs_Xbox_One_Games
<lotuspsychje> i never liked xbox myself
<lotuspsychje> ps4 or steambox
<EriC^^> i only played it once
<EriC^^> the new controller i saw looked a little like the sega dreamcast's controller a little also a little nintendo64-ish
<EriC^^> i have a good idea
<EriC^^> i'll go to the store that has those dvd's i was talking about yesterday
<EriC^^> i remember they had a bunch of games too, i think xbox 360
<EriC^^> if they have games for xbox one i'll get an xbox one
<EriC^^> fuck gran turismo i'll get the gran turismo 6 for the ps3 if i want to play gran turismo style car
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> we should sell games online
<EriC^^> buy them from there for $5 or something
<EriC^^> then rip them and upload them for a price
<EriC^^> or make sketchy international orders
<EriC^^> "used games for sale"
<EriC^^> make a website for movies
<EriC^^> the movienight.ws site got like 1mil for deadpool views
<EriC^^> that's $2000-$3000 in ad revenue
<lotuspsychje> thats gonna cost you copyrights
<EriC^^> probably can put it on a local server here with some corporate line, i'll actually manually rip the dvd's
<EriC^^> and nobody would care cause this is lebanon
<lotuspsychje> risky idea :p
<EriC^^> when i was like 14 i got the sega dreamcast
<EriC^^> cause i heard you could rip games for it from online
<lotuspsychje> alot of online services want this to happen, that users pay for recent movies/series
<EriC^^> after like a dozen failed cd's it finally worked
<EriC^^> i started selling them at highschool
<EriC^^> made a shit ton of $$
<lotuspsychje> lets use the other chan
<EriC^^> well not a shit ton, but good for a 14 yr old
<lotuspsychje> !info krita
<ubot5> krita (source: calligra): pixel-based image manipulation program for the Calligra Suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.9.7-0ubuntu12 (xenial), package size 7975 kB, installed size 31997 kB
<lotuspsychje> bug 1583114
<ubot5> bug 1583114 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Dhcpdiscover loops on interval until network-manager restart" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583114
<lotuspsychje> still stable for now..
<brushdemon> wait, so what happens if the discover gets a response? It still loops?
<lotuspsychje> after network-manager restart it just connects and stops looping
<brushdemon> oh, I see
<brushdemon> lotuspsychje: try setting your ipv6 to link local
<lotuspsychje> i did
<brushdemon> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> now waiting for it to happen again
<lotuspsychje> working now
<brushdemon> ah I see, you actually get a link-local address assigned then it 'withdraws' it for "reason 'none'"
<lotuspsychje> not sure why it does it
<lotuspsychje> its not every boot neither
<brushdemon> well, layer 1 seems to be fine if you can get it working at all, l2 is probably okay since the driver is working and your NIC seems to work
<brushdemon> that's an interesting bug
<brushdemon> lotuspsychje: have you tried disabling ipv6 completely?
<brushdemon> unless you need to use ipv6 ofc
<lotuspsychje> brushdemon: yes, its set to ignore now
<daftykins> just the other day i tore out some notes i had on how to disable the ipv6 module, from when it was separate and not in the kernel :)
<daftykins> 8.04!
<brushdemon> hmmm, I'm honestly more concerned that it doesn't just fail after a few retries
<brushdemon> old time :p
<brushdemon> 8.04 was my very first clash with anything not windows
<brushdemon> I'm not 100% sure on how ubuntu does it but I know that the ipv6 module in the kernel is well... a module
<brushdemon> so you can technically blacklist it
<brushdemon> I haven't took a look at the .config for the ubuntu kernel in a while
<lotuspsychje> this isnt normal behaviour, devs should fix this by default
<brushdemon> lotuspsychje: I'm aware, it should fail and not infinitely loop
<daftykins> my ISP seems to have no plans to implement v6
<Ben64> my isp can't get a patch out to fix ipv6 on my modem
<brushdemon> ouch
<Ben64> comcast released the patch october 2015
<Ben64> :(
<daftykins> but you don't want to use it, or?
<brushdemon> lotuspsychje: I would honestly go to say that it's the dhcp implementation that's messing up here based on the logs. I'm not a dev though so we can see if I was right or not once they get around to it :)
<lotuspsychje> brushdemon: ipv6 ignore fixxed this for now...lets see the next days if it occurs again
<brushdemon> well, it's an okay work around
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: does your ISP use v6?
<daftykins> i tend to fully disable it on my Windows hosts since there's no reason to bother
<brushdemon> I wonder if it's possible that it's failing with v6 due to one of v6's auto-allocation methods
<daftykins> well you'd think that wouldn't be possible to fail
<daftykins> link local v6 should surely just assign an address itself and be done
<brushdemon> you also have stuff like slaac
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: no
<lotuspsychje> dont need ipv6 myself
<brushdemon> but you are right, there should be priority with slaac and dhcp on the client side
<brushdemon> this really shouldn't be an issue at all
<lotuspsychje> true
<de-facto> Morning Guys :)
<lotuspsychje> hi de-facto
 * daftykins stands to attention
<de-facto> just found out t-mobile probably is the only mobile ISP in germany which gives you a public ip where you can open ports when you choose the correct APN (internet.t-d1.de) for auth. Also it seems both vodafone and o2 employees are astonishingly incompetent, they dont even know what a IP address is, leave alone NAT or ports :P
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> ok breakfast guys
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one!
<de-facto> enjoy :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<brushdemon> but NAT is extremely old now by tech standards
<daftykins> well sure, they are there to sell and let people text and call - they're not network admins
<de-facto> they all permit outgoing connections, but usually you get a private ip in their cellular networks (like 10.x.z.z) and are with another ip in the internet (like 80.a.b.c), hence they use NAT in their APNs and you cant open ports (e.g. for reaching the endpoint via ssh or such).
<Ben64> my cell phone gives me a real ipv4 and a real ipv6
<Ben64> ooh maybe not
<Ben64> looks real, but isnt
<de-facto> some give you just a private ip behind a nat (O2), some a transparent public IP without NAT (I read vodafone with cda.vodafone.de), but block ports, others give you a public IP and let you open arbitrary ports (like internet.t-d1.de)
<de-facto> that is in germany
<Ben64> ipv6 is real
<Ben64> ipv4 the phone has is 100.x.x.x, but when i go to my server, server sees 70.x.x.x
<Ben64> can't traceroute the 100.x, it goes in circles
<de-facto> can you reach a service on it (like ssh helper) when you open a port on your phone with that public ip from another computer (like your desktop )?
<Ben64> NetName:        SHARED-ADDRESS-SPACE-RFCTBD-IANA-RESERVED
<Ben64> ah, it's a small reserved section i didn't know about
<Ben64> NetRange:       100.64.0.0 - 100.127.255.255
<Ben64> de-facto: if i put it on ipv6 i bet it would work
<daftykins> "my ip" in google also handily gives you your internet facing IP
<Ben64> i have a server that is easier and lighter than that :D
<Ben64> http://ben64.com/ip.php
<de-facto> yeah no need for NAT with v6, but still i guess the ISPs dont want you to open ports and such, for whatever reason
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> wonder if there's a non-PHP way
<Ben64> whats wrong with php
<daftykins> nothing, just in case it's not on a given host is all
<de-facto> webrtc with stun server?
<Ben64> * Ace0 has quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
<Ben64> :D
<Ben64> warms my heart
<daftykins> XD
<de-facto> Ben64 http://pastebin.com/TWStyWve  :)
<Ben64> ??
<Ben64> <?php echo $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; ?>
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> one liner > essay
<de-facto> half js with webrtc (to get private ip in wlan/lan), half php to reflect public ip and headers
<daftykins> well the former is actually rude
<de-facto> also you probably can use nginx with echo module or such if you dont want php
<de-facto> daftykins why rude?
<daftykins> they call them private IPs for a reason (:
<de-facto> yeah, but its just displayed client side, so no leak (well except for the sdp request done in background)
<daftykins> i wasn't looking at that code specifically
<rilleh> I can't seem to get iTerm2 shell integrations to work in Ubuntu
<daftykins> that sounds a bit like a support question
<rilleh> You are correct :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<rilleh> Found out what the cause was: tmux
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> how'd the dog walking go?
<lotuspsychje> i dont have a dog :p
<lotuspsychje> i got 4 russian puppies :p
<lotuspsychje> hi TJ-
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> morning TJ- o/
<EriC^^> !iraq
<EriC^^> !iran
<EriC^^> !euthopia
<EriC^^> !ethiopia
<EriC^^> !afghanistan
<lotuspsychje> bot is down :p
<EriC^^> !turkmenistan
<EriC^^> nah it's giving me pms
<EriC^^> !sudan
<EriC^^> !france
<EriC^^> !french
<EriC^^> i think it has me on ignore now
<EriC^^> !info bla
<ubot5> Package bla does not exist in xenial
<EriC^^> !french
<daftykins> pre menstrual strain? sorry to hear that eric
<daftykins> feel better! :)
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> did i typo somewhere
<daftykins> nah just teasing pms, PMs
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> lots of shit go over my head
<EriC^^> the linguistic/cultural stuff
<daftykins> you do better than i would!
<EriC^^> oh man almost done with the spring cleaning
<EriC^^> had mcdonalds for lunch, i feel wrecked now
<EriC^^> still 2 rooms to clean and maybe the balcony, so many stuff to do
<EriC^^> i'm thinking if i can muster enough strength to carry the 42" to the living room again and put san andreas to continue watching it
<daftykins> what do you buy from mcds? :) we don't have any fast food places on the island
<EriC^^> that thing is heavy as fuck it's unbelievably heavy
<EriC^^> i usually get the double cheese burger meal and an oreo icecream thing
<EriC^^> sometimes i get a big mac meal, i dont like tomatos in hamburgers and most of the rest all have tomatos basically
<daftykins> do they do the gherkin thing over there? little slice as normal on top?
<EriC^^> gherkin?
<daftykins> pickle?
<EriC^^> oh, yeah i love those
<daftykins> first time i had one on the larger island near here, i thought wtf? but yeah i quite like it :D nice addition
<EriC^^> yeah pickles are great
<daftykins> sometimes i go and get a mcdonalds at London Gatwick airport when i pass through, i can do that at the start of June 'cause i'll be going down to Spain again
<EriC^^> cool
<crocodilehunter> hi there. who would like to discuss the state of ZFS?
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<crocodilehunter> hi
<daftykins> not me!
<crocodilehunter> i have spent all day trying to boot ubuntu 16.04 off ZFS root...
<daftykins> such storage is better as solely storage, with an OS outside of it
<daftykins> easier to fault find from and so on
<crocodilehunter> yes. there has definitely been a learning curve..
<crocodilehunter> the way people were talking about 16.04, i thought it was going to be an option in ubiquity
<crocodilehunter> i'll just have to use it as a seperate storage for LXD...
<lotuspsychje> crocodilehunter: talk to ducasse
<ducasse> zfs on root is a nightmare right now.
<crocodilehunter> what do people on this channel usually discuss? any dev stuff?
<lotuspsychje> crocodilehunter: ubuntu stuff
<crocodilehunter> is ZFS on the ubuntu roadmap for full integration?
<daftykins> i thought the license hassle would prevent that ever being a thing
<daftykins> you should move distro if you want that
<crocodilehunter> do you think that we would be at a disadvantage not supporting a feature like ZFS?
<daftykins> ZFS is niche
<OerHeks> crocodilehunter, what guid did you follow?
<OerHeks> https://github.com/zfsonlinux/pkg-zfs/wiki/HOWTO-install-Ubuntu-16.04-to-a-Native-ZFS-Root-Filesystem
<crocodilehunter> move distros??
<crocodilehunter> i tried all the guides including the one linked.. i guess it's not that important to boot of a ZFS /, but I was hoping to learn a repeatable method so i could contribute to documenting it...
<daftykins> as i said, run a standard root and make a storage volume ZFS to tinker
<crocodilehunter> i wouldn't move distros, i am a stakeholder in ubuntu just like you. what im trying to highlight is that storage is a pretty big component of an OS, and there's no denying that ZFS  is unrivalled when it comes to storage....
<crocodilehunter> yes, i guess i will have to.
<daftykins> stakeholder sounds like a financial connection :P
<BluesKaj> or a serious dependency
<daftykins> i think it's only justified based on your specific setup
<daftykins> ZFS isn't for everybody
<crocodilehunter> not stake doesn't mean financial, i guess 'vested interest' would be a more appropiate term...
<daftykins> yeah
 * BluesKaj has no desire to fooll with fringe filesystems just because theyre exotic and promise faster speeds etc
<ducasse> zfs isn't really 'fringe'.
<BluesKaj> to me it is :-)
<crocodilehunter> i guess ZFS isnt for everybody, but i just thought withZFS being suggested to be used with LXD, that there would be more official docs...
<daftykins> sorry but to claim otherwise you can't be considering home users in that
<crocodilehunter> i would rather use zfs for /home than btrfs...
<ducasse> crocodilehunter: second that, usage with lxd is poorly documented.
<Ben64> i'd rather use ext4
<crocodilehunter> considering i dont talk to much people these days i plan to hang out on irc more, and i happen to be an ubuntu user...
<lotuspsychje> less hunt the crocodiles :p
<BluesKaj> crocodilehunter:  what's so fascinating about zfs, anyway ..just curious
<Ben64> it's got a z in it
<crocodilehunter> it just happens to be what i've been working on. but i was hoping to learn myself so i could contribute to the docs....
<lotuspsychje> !contribute
<crocodilehunter> licensing aside, its more about LXD, than ZFS. i think LXD is a killer app that will put ubuntu even further in front....
<daftykins> i'm not even aware what that is just by the letters :>
<BluesKaj> oh the container thing
<crocodilehunter> but like i said, im surprised because alot of the official ubuntu PR mentioned  native ZFS support and i thought there would of been more resources on it...
<crocodilehunter> am i on the wrong channel? i want to contribute to ubuntu. is there another channel where they talk about projects and such?
<daftykins> !channels
<daftykins> hrmm.
<daftykins> there's a list of the channels on the website
<daftykins> i think the wiki could use some work everywhere :)
<crocodilehunter> i'm concurrently on 5 ubuntu channels, but this channel is the only active one....
<daftykins> well #ubuntu is the main support one, #ubuntu-server for server support... and so on
<crocodilehunter> i want to get involved..
<daftykins> those are the more active ones
<crocodilehunter> thanks..
<crocodilehunter> actually, i used to use centos, i tried to get involved on the forums, but i didnt find them to friendly..
<daftykins> no idea on a more specific one though, it's not really the kind of thing i've tried to look for before
<crocodilehunter> "i have a dream".... to contribute to linux...
<daftykins> if the bot were working there'd be factoids i could trigger
<daftykins> not quite sure what's up with that
<BluesKaj> crocodilehunter: perhaps #ubuntu-devel might be right for you
<crocodilehunter> i was just about to type that in... im a bit apprehensive about bothering them.. oh well, worth a shot
<BluesKaj> well, if you want to get wet , the best way is to dive in , if it's too deep you'll find out soon enough :-)
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: :p
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  :-)
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<daftykins> hey sir o/
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> BluesKaj
<TJ-> Unity is quickly pissing me off! It has no concept of maintaining user input focus in the correct control
<BluesKaj> unityand gnome pissed me off a long time ago :-)
<TJ-> I'm only using it because for 16.04 it has the only desktop that can correctly adjust pixel pitch on a high-DPI screen
<BluesKaj> oh fancy, afraid my TV/monitor is only 1920x1080 capable, but it still looks quite good
<JanC> TJ-: what do you mean with the user input focus?
<TJ-> JanC: where a user-initiated action results in either 1) the launched application window being behind the 'current' window (example: using firefox, then go to System icon  > System Settings ... or Bluetooth icon  > Bluetooth settings...) or 2) using Thunderbird + Enigmail, have an encrypted email selected in the mail list, go to the Enigmail menu > Decrypt/Verify, Passphrase dialog opens on-top with
<TJ-> highlighted focus in input text box, cursor flashing, but typing goes nowhere until actually interacting with the dialog with the pointer
<TJ-> I'd say (1) happens about 75% of the time and (2) 100%
<JanC> (1) happens when you click (or somehow otherwise focus) the current window after launching the other application
<TJ-> that's what is supposed to happen, but I'm seeing the launched GUI appear in the launcher but behind everything else, without having moved the pointer or 'accidentally' pressed mouse buttons
<TJ-> It seems to happen in fits and spurts, as in it will be fine then there'll be a period where it does it constantly, no matter what I launch. The only commonality is the applications are started from the iconic taskbar top-right
<de-facto> yeah "fake focus" is quite annoying
<de-facto> happens in gnome shell too
<TJ-> so likely caused by the underlying Gnome then?
<de-facto> good question, idk
<TJ-> it's damned annoying when doing decryption and hitting the keys to type the secret passphrase and it goes someplace else; it could accidentally be delivered to chat for example, although I've never seen any process actual consume the typing - that's the other annoying part about it - does it just disappear, or is it being directed to another process
<de-facto> it may depend on how you loose focus mabye?
<TJ-> with the passphrase every visual indication is the dialog, and its text box, has got focus.. the I-beam cursor is flashing, the border is highlighted orange
<de-facto> does it depend on where the real focus acutally sits? like another window or say unity somewhere?
<TJ-> I don't think so, as in Thunderbird main window has focus, it's menu is stolen by Unity into the top bar, I click on Enigmail, sub-menu shows, I click on Decrypt/Verify, the passphrase dialog appears
<TJ-> the common thread is unity menu/taskbar is involved
<de-facto> i dont have thunderbird installed currently, so cant verify that on gnome shell
<de-facto> for me it happens on firefox and chromium
<de-facto> both arent quite native gtk apps i guess they implement their own way of focus somehow
<TJ-> Yes, I've seen it there too but I probably don't have a workflow that provokes it so reliably
<TJ-> and debugging GUI event/focus loops is not the easiest of jobs at the best of times so I'm gritting my teether, swearing, and getting on with fixing other bugs :)
<de-facto> both move away from being native and implementing more and more their own ways i guess. same might apply to libre office maybe
<de-facto> but thats just wild guesses
<de-facto> maybe you can script a reliable way to reproduce with xdotool, but that might be overkill
<TJ-> once I find time to figure out why the high-DPI scaling isn't working well in XFCE or LXDE I'll switch to one of those.
<TJ-> I work at the CLI in tmux mostly, so apart from web access, I can do everything else in a terminal
<de-facto> once i got used to gnome shell it became quite convenient for me, plus i like the extensions idea
<de-facto> there are even some extensions for tiling support in gnome shell
<de-facto> shellshape
<TJ-> aha! just found another example! Using firefox and noticed an email notification in the taskbar, click on the mail icon that shows a sub-menu with 2 'folders' listed with new mail... click on one, the Thunderbird icon in the launcher 'wiggles' but doesn't come to the front
<de-facto> maybe because the notification is not a "real window"? not sure...
<de-facto> https://vimeo.com/25589480
<de-facto> "shellshape demo"
<de-facto> http://gfxmonk.net/shellshape/
<JanC> TJ-: your (2) I didn't address because I don't use Thunderbird, but that _might_ be a Enigmail bug (e.g. setting focus to the dialog instead instead of to the entry box)
<JanC> or some other Xul bug
<JanC> one possibility is also that some of the focus stealing prevention is too aggressive
<lotuspsychje> wb
<lotuspsychje> you can smell when im online? telepathy? or i need a shower?
<TJ-> JanC: the indicatations for the passphrase dialog is the text-box *has* the focus, as I said. Orange border, I-beam cursor blinking in it
<lotuspsychje> bbl pizzatime!!
<JanC> right, but that *could* be a/the bug also
<JanC> it would be interesting to figure out where the actual focus is  :)
<TJ-> Enigmail doesn't have control of *how* the focus point is indicated
<JanC> TJ-: it has to some degree
<TJ-> yes, I'd rather like to know that too :)
<JanC> actually, applications can quite easily pretend to have focus when they don't  ;-)
<TJ-> JanC: no, in GUIs you can do component.focus() to tell the toolkit to give it focus, the toolkit paints the indications and draws the input cursor if appropriate. If gnome is doing something else it's very broken
<TJ-> I think it's the same issue as (1) but as the passphrase dialog is modal it is forced to be in front of everything else
<JanC> TJ-: you can change the theme, you can create your own widgets for whatever reason, etc.
<TJ-> it's as if the menu that launches it keeps the input focus. Maybe it captures it and doesn't release it appropriately, or releases too late. I know there are other event timing related issues in Unity so it wouldn't surprise me
<JanC> and contrary to what you think, it's not always the toolkit painting that indication (and in case of Xul-based applications, you have something that tries to emulate another toolkit, but sometimes fails to do so :) )
<TJ-> the well known Gnome Terminal minimize/maximize bug is due to event timing. I've seen the same thing using non XUL applications. I thought it was me glitching when I was using the System Settings applets just after installation, but I suspect that was the same lost-focus issue
<TJ-> damned thing is so hard to capture debug data on, which makes it worse
<TJ-> ahhh, and I recall something else that had this focus that isn't brought to the front issue - the on screen keyboard
<JanC> there is a GNOME terminal minimize/maximize bug?
<TJ-> yes, it is very popular :D
<TJ-> I think lotuspsyche and others first told me about it, I had assumed it was normal behaviour
<JanC> I've never had any focus issues with it?
<JanC> so please explain?  :)
<TJ-> no, it's an event timing bug. Start the terminal, change its size to be appreciably smaller than the screen. Maximize it. Now restore it
<JanC> hm, never had any issues with that
<JanC> which is possible with timing-related bugs, of course
<TJ-> bug 1521302
<ubot5> bug 1521302 in unity (Ubuntu Xenial) "gnome-terminal maximize than un-maximize behaves odd" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521302
<TJ-> there's another bug affecting the greeter where it resizes the greeter unexpectedly
<nicomachus> TJ-: had a guy on #ubuntu last night that was completely missing kernel/drivers/hwmon.
<TJ-> nicomachus: how did you boot him? :p
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<TJ-> bug 1571640
<ubot5> bug 1571640 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "lightdm changing resolution" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571640
<nicomachus> didn't realize until he started looking for cputemp modules and couldn't find the directory they were supposed to be in. but I don't think he ever fixed it
<TJ-> nicomachus: had the user done a purge of the kernel packages then?
<TJ-> all modules are at /lib/modules/<kernel-version>/
<TJ-> linux-image-<version> installs /boot/vmlinuz-<version> and modules to /lib/modules/<version>/
<TJ-> so the system was booted and then the running kernel's packages were removed
<JanC> TJ-: I wonder where those gnome terminal windows are located on the screen & how big they are for the people who see that...
<nicomachus> TJ-: he had upgraded from 14.04 to 16.04. :/
<TJ-> JanC: can be anywhere, but always restores to a size a few pixels less than maximum
<JanC> TJ-: so based on Marco's explanation, there actually is a bug in gnome-terminal and/or in Gtk3 ?
<TJ-> Yes
<TJ-> It happens 100% of the time for me; as I said, I assumed it was an annoying but intentional 'feature' since I've not used Unity in years
<JanC> I've never seen that bug
<JanC> I wonder if some Compiz/Unity settings make it better or worse
<TJ-> Did you fresh install or upgrade? Maybe there's an inherited config value that prevents it. Mine was a fresh install from ISO
<JanC> this was a fresh install
<JanC> although I did move some config back (but no Compiz stuff, I think)
<JanC> OTOH, I did change some settings right away...
<TJ-> I've not touched anything except setting the Display scaling factor to 1.15 or so, since this thing has a 2560x1440 11" LCD
<TJ-> Maybe it would trigger in a guest session?
<nacc> sometimes i wish people would realize that doing something outside of a distribution's control implies you are supporting yourself...
<OerHeks> -and i don't hear you-
<OerHeks> grinn
<nacc> :)
<TJ-> nacc: I can tell you're new here :D
<nacc> it's something i've thought so many times over the years
<TJ-> 1/2 or more of support issues are due to that :D
<nacc> it's a fool's hope, i know -- but a distribution is just that, a bundle of stuff that is supposed to go together
<nacc> TJ-: 100% ack :)
<TJ-> hahaha I'm going to print and frame that!
<TJ-> "supposed to go together"
<nacc> :)
<nacc> i think there probably should be nested quotes around both 'supposed' and 'together'
<TJ-> or great but tongue-in-cheek emoticon
<TJ-> s/but/big/
<nacc> heh
<OerHeks> step 1 add any ppa from ... wait, http://www.dailyubuntu.com/ domain expired today :-D
<TJ-> really?
<TJ-> Expiration Date: 19-may-2017
<TJ-> someone must have just renewed!
<OerHeks> http://i.imgur.com/oYAE0xj.png i still see this
<nacc> heh, they got stolen out and now are hax0rd?
<TJ-> well the SOAs are still what looks like parking pages: Name Server: DNS3.PARKPAGE.FOUNDATIONAPI.COM
<TJ-> there's a grace period after expiry before the domain can be taken over, so I doubt the ownership has changed.
<nacc> TJ-: yeah it's weird, got a random bad popup page once, then a domain search page once
<TJ-> (speaking as a domain registrar myself its generally 14 days grace or sometimes more, with plenty of reminder emails)
<nacc> seems fishy at best
<Bashing-om> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Users of 14.04 LTS will be offered the automatic upgrade when 16.04.1 LTS is released, which is scheduled for July 21st.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-05-20
<OerHeks> pinguy OS e.o.l. http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/pinguy-os-wants-to-pull-the-plug-on-his-ubuntu-based-gnu-linux-operating-system-504268.shtml
<OerHeks> this bug generates a lot of heat https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream/+bug/1579712
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1579712 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "Refresh hangs due to strdup on non-NULL terminated string" [High,Fix committed]
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: L) ,, pounded by : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream/+bug/1579712 ,
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1579712 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "Refresh hangs due to strdup on non-NULL terminated string" [High,Fix committed]
<lotuspsychje> hey bash
<lotuspsychje> lemme have a look
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: a bit over my head this bug :p
<lotuspsychje> would not have a clue where to start
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: The short answer " sudo apt remove appstream " .
<lotuspsychje> !info appstream
<ubot5> appstream (source: appstream): Software component index. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.4-1 (xenial), package size 30 kB, installed size 176 kB
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> still waking up here :p
<lotuspsychje> 6h32
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> debating getting up myself
<Bashing-om> debating/close to calling it a night :(
<daftykins> the changing of the guard!
<Bashing-om> And, The watch notes have been passed .
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje> morning daftykins & nacc
<daftykins> heyup
<Bashing-om> Done in for this session, calling it ! All on yall now ,
<EriC^^> i think i'm about to die
<EriC^^> i slept without a tshirt and the a/c on and i think i didn't eat dinner either
<daftykins> EriC^^: D:
<daftykins> quick! obtain sustenance!
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/nvidia-367-18-beta-graphics-drivers-released-for-linux-no-gtx-1080-support-yet-504267.shtml
<daftykins> >:)
<Switches> So they don't have support in a driver yet for a card that isn't available to buy until 27th, but nvidias own site says it has Windows, Linux, FreeBSDx86..ok
<daftykins> doesn't make sense to buy and run a high end card under Linux anyway, since it'd be castrated performance wise
<Switches> Although saying that I guess you could argue that the AMD drivers already have Polaris support
<daftykins> 'amdgpu' ?
<Switches> yeah amdgpu has some support being added for the polaris ids
<daftykins> do you run modernish AMD hardware to have been dabbling with that? i wonder if they'll turn around the rep fglrx has
<Switches> But then noone is really sure where Polaris is being aimed, as it doesn't look like its going to be "high end" with the first iteration of it
<Switches> Well not really, my main rig has an old GTX750ti, other system has the older HD7950 Radeon (GCN 1.0) which has gotten some support lately
<daftykins> ah you're scraping legacy there!
<daftykins> rumours i've read speak of mid-range Polaris this June/July with availability for the 'back to school' period and high-end in December
<daftykins> which means there'll be no high-end comparison between the two before i want to buy a new :(
<daftykins> GTX 560Ti 2GB i have right now... 5 years old
<Switches> Pretty much :p I'm waiting on the polaris desktop chips tbh, the nvidia stuff although interesting isn't really upto scratch imo, So i'll wait
<Switches> The VR stuff for Nvidia looks amazing, but I don't have a Vive
<daftykins> i'm concerned about the async DX12 stuff
<Switches> Well AMD already owns nvidia in async stuff, I can't see them losing that edge especially when Nvidia don't seem to be interested in it.
<daftykins> they just had too much investment in their preemption approach to DX11 from what i gathered in reviews and so on
<Switches> Just gotta hope nvidia don't try the stunt they have been doing with Gameworks, can't see that happening in gaming at the mo though, way to lucrative for them
<daftykins> my lovely new game gives me 14fps average in a benchmark so i am itching for a new purchase :D
<Switches> lol
<daftykins> not enough for a silly 'early adopter' price hike mind you
<daftykins> i'm not too fussed about VR at all, way too early for all that
<Switches> Well being a Linux only guy, I try to stick to stuff that works well with Linux or has great support. AMD seems to have a better way with the new drivers than Nvidia does, but only time will tell
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> are they wholly open, or do they still have some closed content?
<Switches> well amdgpu is totally open they also have gpuopen program going for some of the addon stuff like TressFX, plus the proprietary driver (amdgpu-pro) uses most of the amdgpu stuff and just sorta plugs into it from what i've read
<daftykins> oh that sounds good
<Switches> I haven't had much time using it as its still very unstable, but it is under a hell of a lot of development at the mo
<daftykins> i was reading something the other day alleging that nvidia purposefully make their fancy hair tech run like a dog on AMD kit
<Switches> Yeah theres been a big kickup about it, its actually something in Gameworks that messes with AMD cards
<Switches> Reminds me a bit of the Intel crap they tryed to pull with the compilers
<daftykins> really sad when such games go on, does make me think nvidia are perhaps less deserving of my money now
<daftykins> never had any problems with their kit even in Linux land though
<Switches> Well Nvidia aren't really "open source" friendly, but if you game on Windows aswell as Linux tbh they have way better performance and much better drivers (at the moment atleast)
<Switches> If you're a gamer tbh put your money where the performance is. The politics of it all will work itself out lol
<daftykins> true enough :)
<daftykins> just had a browse for fun, geforce.co.uk doesn't even have the 1000 series on their driver dropdown menus yet :>
<Switches> :)
<Switches> Well tbh noone but the reviewers should have them just yet
<Switches> But it was just a post saying the drivers don't support them is just like the "2way SLI" posts. I think they are just trying to get click bait out the door lol
<daftykins> totally
<daftykins> it's quite cringe reading tech sites, none that cut the crap
<Switches> Na they all spin it for themselves
<Switches> I read a lot of them in a day.. I'm surprised my hand isn't perm attached to my face the amount of times I facepalm reading them
<daftykins> =]
<de-facto> i get the feeling apt is a bit messed up right now :-/
<de-facto> s/feeling/impression
<daftykins> you got last nights bad updates?
<daftykins> the guys were talking about some showstoppers it seems
<daftykins> or is this just your install?
<EriC^^> what bad updates? O.o
<daftykins> not sure, can't find that chat now... let me see
<daftykins> hrmm seems like past dafty was drinking some strange stuff
<EriC^^> hehe
<EriC^^> i saw somebody in the channel mention apt being broke
<EriC^^> earlier today i think
<daftykins> yeah that must've been the one
<lotuspsychje> hi TJ-
<lotuspsychje> welcome to xenial bug day :p
<lotuspsychje> bug 1579712
<ubot5> bug 1579712 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "Refresh hangs indefinitely, appstreamcli using 100% CPU" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579712
<daftykins> ^_^
<lotuspsychje> stuck apt update all morning
<daftykins> yeah what's this wonky apt situation?
<lotuspsychje> this bug daftykins
<daftykins> oh i see
<TJ-> that was a funny one last night!
<lotuspsychje> bashing-om: " sudo apt remove appstream " .
<lotuspsychje> !info appstream
<ubot5> appstream (source: appstream): Software component index. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.4-1 (xenial), package size 30 kB, installed size 176 kB
<TJ-> Jeeze! I really start to dispair of programmer's abilities these days, I've just read the code to see what the bug was, it's awful
<TJ-> Didn't do the most basic of checks - namely when opening a file checking the returned file descriptor wasn't an error code, just assumed it was valid! That's not even under-graduate level mistakes
<lotuspsychje> hmm sudo apt upgrade works
<EriC^^> apt is broken?
<lotuspsychje> and appstream gonna get updated so
<lotuspsychje> bug 1579712
<ubot5> bug 1579712 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "Refresh hangs indefinitely, appstreamcli using 100% CPU" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579712
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: this
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: try apt update, then close terminal
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: then sudo apt upgrade
<EriC^^> got a bug myself
<EriC^^> 2 lock screens after suspending
<EriC^^> nothing in /etc/pm/sleep.d that's obvious though
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: didnt you move to kernel 4.6 for suspend issues?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: there was an alternative: "dpkg-divert --local --rename --divert /usr/bin/appstreamcli.dpkg /usr/bin/appstreamcli "
<EriC^^> yeah it was maknig a black screen before
<EriC^^> now it's making 2 lock screens somehow
<lotuspsychje> bah
<EriC^^> when the battery is about to turn off
<EriC^^> ill try manually i think its different
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: tnx, but appstream is in updates so :p
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: yeah I know, but the general usage of dpkg-divert is useful to know
<TJ-> since it works for fresh package installs to prevent them putting things back
<lotuspsychje> cool workaround
<EriC^^> pm-suspend works fine, actually doesn't ask for a password when turning back on
<EriC^^> systemctl suspend asks for 2 passes
<TJ-> EriC^^: from the GUI greeter/locker ?
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> one old looking one, gray
<EriC^^> then the usual one of lightdm with the background
<lotuspsychje> there we go, apt update working again :p
<TJ-> sounds like the 'old' one could be the xscreensaver based thing; you may be hitting a bug I noticed on 15.10 with Lubuntu actually, or similar, where light-locker + xscreensaver would result in a totally blank unlock display (just LCD backlight visible)
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@RooTBooK:~$ apt-cache policy appstream
<lotuspsychje> appstream:
<lotuspsychje>   GeÃ¯nstalleerd: 0.9.4-1ubuntu1
<lotuspsychje> its the same version they patched right?
<EriC^^> TJ-: seems like a light-locker, it has a background and the user name at the top but it's kind of older version
<EriC^^> installing lubuntu once changed the locker to it
<TJ-> EriC^^: I discovered the light-locker-command tool for controlling it
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<TJ-> the reason for 2 lock screens may be that with multiple lockers installed, you've got gnome-locker and light-locker both with files in /etc/xdg/autostart/light-locker.desktop
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> TJ-: yeah gnome-screensaver-command -l brings the second standard one
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: you got the appstream bug also on kde?
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje, EriC^^ , TJ-
<EriC^^> TJ-: no light-locker.desktop though
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<EriC^^> find /etc -iname "light*lock*" returns nothing
<TJ-> EriC^^: it's all in the autostart entries for XDG
<BluesKaj> appstream ? do mean update stuck  in the repos?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yes
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,^
<BluesKaj> yeah I had it last night
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: how did you solve?
<BluesKaj> on Xenial on the laptop
<lotuspsychje> yakkkety didnt have it?
<lotuspsychje> -k
<EriC^^> TJ-: nothing about lock there
<EriC^^> ps aux | grep lock returns nothing too
<TJ-> EriC^^: no light-locker package installed you mean?
<TJ-> EriC^^: what files are in /etc/xdg/autostart/ ? maybe its another?
<EriC^^> no i meant no files there that have light-locker, but i just checked dpkg and it's not installed
<EriC^^> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16519453/
<BluesKaj> had to run sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock;sudo dpkg --configure -a, a few times til the unneeded kernel was cleared by doing an autoremove
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,^'
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ok tnx, i just sudo apt update and force close terminal, then sudo apt upgrade
<lotuspsychje> appstream in the update list
<EriC^^> heh i have vnc installed, dunno how it got here
<lotuspsychje> yikes
<lotuspsychje> be carefull with vnc EriC^^ :p
<daftykins> i'm in yr computer
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<daftykins> ;)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: your gonna steal hardware now?
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> hmm apt-mark showauto has it listed, wonder what pulled it in
<TJ-> EriC^^: those all look 'normal' ... maybe something else in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ?
<BluesKaj> no upgrade problem today tho, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: neither here
<lotuspsychje> !info appstream yakkety
<ubot5> appstream (source: appstream): Software component index. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.6-1 (yakkety), package size 30 kB, installed size 176 kB
<lotuspsychje> higher version it is..
<EriC^^> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16519494/
<TJ-> EriC^^: best thing would be to switch to a VT console when the first locker is up, and do "ps -efly | grep lock" or whatever to try to identify the process name
<EriC^^> looks ok
<EriC^^> aha good idea
<EriC^^> it comes up first thing after systemctl suspend, then pc turns off
<EriC^^> in ps aux there's nothing that has lock in it, just /usr/lib/gnome-screensaver/gnome-screensaver-dialog --enable-switch
<EriC^^> it's gone now
<EriC^^> just /usr/bin/gnome-screensaver --no-daemon
<EriC^^> i tried to press switch user this time and it took me straight the to standard lightdm one
<EriC^^> *to the
<TJ-> hmmm, can you do it using a remote ssh connect as soon is it resumes? Not sure it'll gain anything, but I always prefer that since I don't disturb what the GUI is doing by switching VTs
<EriC^^> could this be relevant /etc/pam.d/
<EriC^^> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16519606/
<EriC^^> maybe it's a pam thing?
<lotuspsychje> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje
<pauljw> everyone
<EriC^^> i did while sleep 0.4; do ps aux > file$i; i=$((i+1)); done
<tsimonq2> who's coming to Kubuntu Party 3 today? :D
<lotuspsychje> too far for me :p
<EriC^^> hmm 18,000 lines
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: but it's on the interwebz, nothing is too far! :D
<EriC^^> first 3 files http://termbin.com/nqsa
<EriC^^> TJ-: do the new processes always end up at the bottom?
<EriC^^> i could tail the last 10 lines for each file wouldn't be that bad
<TJ-> EriC^^: no, the PIDs get reused
<EriC^^> how could i just get the new stuff that's going into ps aux
<TJ-> I use the elapsed-time column to get an sense for what is most recently started, in addition to PID
<TJ-> EriC^^: I'd capture snapshots and diff them
<EriC^^> i'll just run it for a few secs cause as soon as i run systemctl suspend the old locker comes
<TJ-> EriC^^: hmmm, the locker will start before suspend won't it! as in it locks first, so its active on resume. maybe you can figure it out from that
<EriC^^> TJ-: resulting list http://paste.ubuntu.com/16519895/
<EriC^^> that's the process that pops up /usr/lib/gnome-screensaver/gnome-screensaver-dialog --enable-switch
<EriC^^> after i log in it disappears
<TJ-> I think you need to add to its cmdline --debug :)
<EriC^^> if i run it with DISPLAY=:1 just trying it it said
<EriC^^> Failed to connect to Mir: Failed to connect to server socket: No such file or directory
<EriC^^> what the
<EriC^^> oh it works for both xorg and mir?
<TJ-> seems that xdg/autostart starts /usr/bin/gnome-screensaver   which is responsible for the dialog
<EriC^^> ok trying again
<EriC^^> killed gnome-screensaver to see how it'll go
<EriC^^> works great now
<EriC^^> still get the the lightdm standard one
<EriC^^> i wonder if ctrl+alt+l will work now
<EriC^^> yup still works
<EriC^^> hmm
<EriC^^> what was that gnome-screensaver daemon for then
<EriC^^> i guess the timed screen lock?
<EriC^^> hmm this is odd
<EriC^^> gnome-screensaver-command -l still works
<EriC^^> i thought it only works if the daemon is running
<TJ-> hasn't dbus restarted it?
<EriC^^> nope
<EriC^^> ps aux | grep gnome-screen shows nothing
<EriC^^> http://termbin.com/wyov
<EriC^^> ps aux loop thingy while pressing ctrl+alt+l
<EriC^^> aha that's what's running it /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/unity/unity-panel-service --lockscreen-mode
<TJ-> I read in the gnome-screensaver package notes its dynamically started by dbus if not around
<EriC^^> hmm
<EriC^^> let me try with gnome-screen-command -l
<EriC^^> http://termbin.com/ccej
<EriC^^> hmm typo or something
<EriC^^> http://termbin.com/503z
<EriC^^> i added a grep gnome-screen at the bottom
<TJ-> what other DEs besides Unity has that system had installed? It feels rather like multiples conflicting
<EriC^^> just ubuntu 16.04
<EriC^^> fresh install
<TJ-> the only other thing I can think of is the X built-in locker is also being triggered by gnome-screensaver. Have you installed/deinstalled any screensaver packages, or themes?
<TJ-> done any configuration for the user on that.
<TJ-> Also, have you tested in a clean new user account?
<EriC^^> strace of gnome-screensaver-command -l in case it's useful http://paste.ubuntu.com/16520168/
<EriC^^> no
<EriC^^> xscreensaver might be installed
<EriC^^> actually it's not
<EriC^^> i saw xscreensaver somewhere though
<EriC^^> hmm doesn't seem so must have been on a website or something
<EriC^^> let me try a fresh user
<EriC^^> same thing with different user
<EriC^^> i did a strace systemctl suspend in case it can help
<EriC^^> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16520261/
<EriC^^> there seems to be 2 gnome-screensaver daemons running right now one in the new user's id and the other in mine
<EriC^^> ah it runs from /etc/xdg/autostart
<TJ-> yes
<TJ-> this is one of the issues with using DBus, you can't see what's going on where the message is received
<de-facto> ubuntu hates me today :(
<de-facto>  Guys when i create a <program>.desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications/   where does that lookup its icon? can i place an icon somewhere in the ~/.local/share/  tree for that?
<EriC^^> try to +x it
<EriC^^> and see if you can search for it from the dash
<de-facto> yeah that works, but shows no icon
<de-facto> oh wow wait, it does now!
<de-facto> nice, i just places one in ~/.local/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/<program>.png  and referenced that with Icon=<program> in the desktop file
<lotuspsychje> de-facto: wich package needed an icon?
<de-facto> not really a package, i am trying to integrate the Signal chromium browser app in my gnome desktop
<lotuspsychje> cool
<de-facto> yeah so, so, launching apps in chromium from command line is very buggy, now the chromium update somehow broke that :(
<lotuspsychje> man wth...https://bugs.launchpad.net/baltix/+bug/959043
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 959043 in Baltix "Canon PIXMA ip1000 and others (ip1200, ip1300, ip1500-ip1900, ip2200, etc) drivers were removed from Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> 2012 bug lol
<lotuspsychje> i wonder if xenial printer files re-added these models?
<lotuspsychje> hey nicomachus
<lotuspsychje> nice wiki guys: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/httpd.html
<lotuspsychje> can we do something with this dax? ^
<nicomachus> lotuspsychje: what's wrong with it?
<nicomachus> it's a wiki: fix it. :D
<lotuspsychje> nothing wrong, its new!
<nicomachus> oh
<lotuspsychje> and i like it
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: would be cool for a trigger
<lotuspsychje> or addon for !lamp
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: you still remember factoid add command?
<lotuspsychje> want to try one
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: no, sorry. hang on, i'll check if i have it in my history...
<lotuspsychje> okay mate
<ducasse> here you go - /msg ubottu !no, triggergoeshere <reply> text goes here
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the , and reply also?
<ducasse> afaik, yes.
<ducasse> that's what i was told (and used) anyway.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: worked
<ducasse> goodie :)
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, apt update is locked up again, "Unable to lock dir /var/lib/apt/lists" ..thought I had this fixed , but it's happenng again
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: on xenial or yakkety?
<OerHeks> maybe updates pending?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah try sudo apt upgrade, see if appstream is in there
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, nothing
<lotuspsychje> did you sudo apt update first?
<pauljw> happened to me first thing this morning, turned out to be updater was in the process of checking.  once i saw the pending updates notice, i could use apt update again.
<lotuspsychje> force close terminal?
<BluesKaj> how?
<lotuspsychje> or cant you get a sudo apt update?
<BluesKaj> no update , the error is after update
<de-facto> hmm that apt lock thingy keeps hitting my nerves the whole day already :(
<lotuspsychje> i fixxed it after i could sudo apt upgrade
<lotuspsychje> even if sudo apt update freezed on last, i force closed terminal
<de-facto> lol really?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<de-facto> that was exactly my experience too
<lotuspsychje> then appstream showed up updates
<BluesKaj> what is force clos terminal?
<lotuspsychje> and thats the patched one
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: when terminal freezes on last step, just close it
<de-facto> then i reinstalled and went for a coffee, i guess that freeze melted itself after a few minutes
<de-facto> i think its that huge fonts update
<lotuspsychje> 75mb update was big
<de-facto> but still freezing on me? thats unacceptable :(
<lotuspsychje> hmmz?
<BluesKaj> cit's not stuck at the update , after the error i posted it goes back to the prompt
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: tried a reboot?
<de-facto> cant dpkg/apt/whatever is doing hard work in the background locked into a cgroup or such so that gui freezes are not possible due to running out of ressources?
<BluesKaj> no
<lotuspsychje> de-facto: workes here now without freeze
<de-facto> hmm
<lotuspsychje> de-facto: you sure you got appstream update this morning?
<lotuspsychje> !info appstream
<ubot5> appstream (source: appstream): Software component index. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.4-1 (xenial), package size 30 kB, installed size 176 kB
<lotuspsychje> we cant policy cause its same version but patched
<BluesKaj> the reboot unstuck the upgrade, appstream and associted pkgs installed
<lotuspsychje> yay
<de-facto> "sudo apt install --reinstall fonts-noto-cjk language-selector-common" makes my system freeze for one or two minutes, GUI completely unresponsive
<lotuspsychje> ouch
<de-facto> and its a fast system with ssd
<lotuspsychje> same here on ssd
<BluesKaj> haven't checked Xenial on the desktop yet, guess I should
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: oled tv's any idea about them?
<lotuspsychje> no sorry
<lotuspsychje> alot of 4K lately
<de-facto> oled tv? wouldnt those burn in with icons and fonts always at the same place?
<de-facto> i use a 1080p 40" LCD LED tv as my main monitor, works quite well over HDMI with nvidia-340 and got even sound :)
<lotuspsychje> cool
<de-facto> yup because otherwise i would have to wear glasses :P hahaha
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> oled is a new technology i think
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: checkout samsung SUHD tv's :p
<EriC^^> seems it can do infinite contrast ratio
<de-facto> oled is organic light emitting diodes like those used on some smartphone displays. they had the issue of wearing out (especially the blue ones), but the big advantage that they have true blacks (hence infinite contrast)
<de-facto> plus the colors match pretty much the human eyes receptors, so i guess you cant get more vibrant colors
<lotuspsychje> UE55KS7000 55" 7-Series SUHD TV
<lotuspsychje> sweet, i wanna see a bluray on that1
<EriC^^> i've heard about the blue fading out on the smartphone thing
<de-facto> basically its organic dyes emitting light themselves by being driven by electric currents, there is no backlight, each pixel emits light by itself
<EriC^^> i wonder how long it takes though, 4-5years?
<EriC^^> only lg is making oled right now, samsung made one then discontinued, they say they're working on quantum-dot enhanced lcd
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yeah my brother in law bought a 4K samsung and got those clouds in screen
<de-facto> they look breathtakingly awesome, i have seen some in a local store here
<de-facto> yeah those Lucky Goldstar ones
<lotuspsychje> samsung is the best :p
<EriC^^> i love plasma cause of the contrast ratio, oled would be really sweet, they're so expensive it seems though
<JanC> OLED isn't new really
<de-facto> im using samsung LCD LED tv right now, i love it
<EriC^^> $2000 for 55" lg
<lotuspsychje> lolll
<de-facto> btw first OLED ones came from sony
<de-facto> several years ago
<de-facto> then samsung, now lg...
<EriC^^> picture quality is great though lotus
<JanC> it was common on many MP3 players too
<EriC^^> i think next iphone will be oled
<EriC^^> not 7, the 7s
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: a friend worker bought a 60 " LG plasma once, installed it on his wall and got all blur when bluray action movies
<de-facto> but still using OLED as monitor, i would be scared by the burn in ... not so much for moving pictures (as in movies) but with fixed position elements like on desktop? hmmm...
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: so he brought it back to the store fast, and bought a samsung
<de-facto> plasma burns in too
<EriC^^> de-facto i meant as a tv
<EriC^^> i wonder how long it would last
<EriC^^> and why samsung isn't making them
<de-facto> plasma uses huge amount of energy, i read hundreds of watts for a usual screen size
<EriC^^> i've been really happy with my plasma lg, it's great build quality really robust and stuff
<EriC^^> also the picture is more alive and warm
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wich lg you have?
<EriC^^> dunno i got it back in 2011
<EriC^^> i think it's 1024x768
<EriC^^> most plasma have that res
<lotuspsychje> ah for pc?
<EriC^^> no it's tv
<de-facto> yeah plasma also has each individual pixel emitting light, i guess in a similar way as those cold cathode ones
<EriC^^> 42"
<de-facto> using a ionized gas or such
<EriC^^> yeah de-facto it feels more like a good old fashioned tv, also the screen is made of glass not plastic like the lcd
<de-facto> for moving pictures its probably great
<lotuspsychje> im not a fan of plasma
<JanC> some LCD are glass  :)
<EriC^^> aha
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu should make a tv usb :p
<EriC^^> honestly i dunno if it's cause the samsung is 32"
<JanC> e.g. those used for medical devices often are, because the plastic doesn't like the disinfectants & such
<lotuspsychje> so i can get rid of this stupid smarttv
<JanC> or germs like the plastic too much, or something
<EriC^^> but the movies on the samsung are very like crispy, like a 30year old actor will look 40-50 on it and the curves of the faces are like sharp, and everything seems very robotic kind of
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> on the plasma it feels more natural and smooth and more vibrant and stuff
<EriC^^> i swear man
<JanC> and of course in general glass doesn't scratch as easily as plastic
<lotuspsychje> yeah the natural feeling is plasma i agree
<lotuspsychje> but i dont have a problem with 1080p blurays on my samsung
<EriC^^> maybe cause it's 42" and 1080p
<EriC^^> i'm using 32" and 720p
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> and its an expensive model aswell
<EriC^^> yeah the samsung feels kind of cheap the one i got
<lotuspsychje> payed 1600$ back in the days
<EriC^^> like the edges are plasticy, and i can carry it with one hand it's like 5kg or something
<lotuspsychje> with silver edges here
<EriC^^> the lg weighs like 20kg minimum i'd think
<EriC^^> and it's built very sleek and elegant
<EriC^^> got the samsung for $240
<lotuspsychje> always buy a full hd 1080p tv
<EriC^^> they didn't have for 32"
<EriC^^> 768p max
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> resell it mate
<lotuspsychje> im sure some pc freak will buy it from you
<lotuspsychje> one that uses his tv for pc screen like de-facto haha
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: does your screen have usb ports?
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: tried a 10gig mkv yet on stick?
<EriC^^> hmm i put the external hdd on it once and played some stuff
<EriC^^> btw i'm an idiot i always take the laptop there
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: try right from the source mate to avoid lags
<EriC^^> i can probably just put the external and watch the movie
<EriC^^> lol just remembered
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: grab some 1080p mkv an test on usb
<lotuspsychje> im sure quality will be nice
<lotuspsychje> it cant do subs though..
<EriC^^> aha
<lotuspsychje> unless their built in
<lotuspsychje> but on mkv it wont work i think
<lotuspsychje> only built in avi's
<EriC^^> dunno
<lotuspsychje> try an english mkv :p
<EriC^^> i think it's like built cheap or something
<EriC^^> it's soo lightweight
<EriC^^> and the sound is horrible i hooked up the laptop and put music, it's not as bassy and depth kind of as the lg one
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://www.h264info.com/clips.html
<lotuspsychje> sound on samsung is not so good, thats a known issue
<lotuspsychje> many buy a soundbar or so
<EriC^^> when i bought it there were 2 32" tv's samsung the other had a sound thingy ad but this one was on sale and was $20-$40 cheaper so i asked the guy which one he thought was better he said it's like the same and better to get the one that's on sale, i wonder if that's why
<EriC^^> maybe it doesn't have any sound bass kind of technology stuff
<lotuspsychje> think so
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but my 1600 model isnt so good on sound neither
<EriC^^> i watched gravity on the samsung it was pretty awesome
<EriC^^> i think it depends on the movies
<de-facto> if one uses a TV as monitor one woudl have to make sure that its possible to *disable* all those fancy picture "enhancing" processors, initially my screen had fonts with halos and mickey mouse colors
<de-facto> if one can disable all of those its fine though (but not every tv can do that)
<EriC^^> i feel like getting a 27" to put on the desk in my room
<de-facto> also for gaming it has to be low latency, otherwise it would be annoying to have extra lag in there
<de-facto> some have lags of several frames
<EriC^^> maybe get an all-in-one pc or get a really powerful box and put a 27" lcd
<de-facto> those old samsung run on ARM linux, somewhere one could even download the image and hack it :P
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: for 500$ you should have a decent samsung 1080p now
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: if you can resell your 32" one for 200
<EriC^^> it's hard to resell i think
<de-facto> also its pretty neat to have an upnp server in the network providing a source device, because with a control device (like bubbleupnp or such on android) one can push the movies to the render device (network tv)
<BluesKaj> not impressed with tv audio , it's usually an after thought, best to connect the audio output to an analog input, even on a cheap stereo the sound wi9ll be much better
<lotuspsychje> true
<EriC^^> what does a led 3d mean?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: thats my model
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: means you get 3D glasses with it
<EriC^^> how's 3d work on it?
<de-facto> i used to have minidlna server for providing the movies, worked really well
<EriC^^> just glasses?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: and the technology is inside the tv
<EriC^^> what technology though
<de-facto> there is different technologies for separating the two eyes channels on the same screen
<EriC^^> oh
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: 3D technology, you can watch movies in 3 dimensions
<EriC^^> so if you buy a 3d movie it can play it
<lotuspsychje> yep
<EriC^^> ah i thought it just puts the screen on
<lotuspsychje> but its real silly to sit in the couch with glasses lol
<lotuspsychje> i sold mine
<EriC^^> you know, didn't know it needs seperate channels, like just a picture that's overlayed or something
<EriC^^> why though
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> i think 3d is overrated on a tv
<de-facto> time division (shutter) flicker each image on whole screen while one eye is blacked out (with active shutter glasses), polarization uses filters to display both images at once and separates them by light polatization
<lotuspsychje> in theathers its cool, for a scifi movie or so
<de-facto> hence you just woudl need cheep pol filters in front of your eyes, but i guess you just get half res for each eye (with the benefit of no flicker)
<de-facto> my tv can do the shutter thingy, but actually i never used it
<EriC^^> can you download movies in 3d online?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yes
<de-facto> yeah some yt are in stereo
<EriC^^> i think in the future movies will be 360
<EriC^^> like you get a controller in the movie theater or with the tv
<de-facto> that is already possible too on youtube
<lotuspsychje> millions of VR glasses gonna be sold in 2016
<EriC^^> that didn't make sense
<lotuspsychje> that real evil!
<de-facto> a whole video sphere, its awesome you can look in all directions on a playing movie
<EriC^^> unless each person had a glasses kind of display on his eyes
<EriC^^> what's evil lotuspsychje ?
<EriC^^> yeah de-facto i saw an unboxing video on youtube in 360
<lotuspsychje> soon we will all be robots with VR
<lotuspsychje> i dont like it
<EriC^^> you can look around the whole area while he unboxes and see stuff on the street etc
<EriC^^> it's pretty cool, like you could watch a movie in so many different ways and see new stuff every time
<lotuspsychje> cant be good for your brains
<de-facto> the quadcopters with 360x180 videos are awesome
<de-facto> those make really cool flights and you can look in any direction as if you were there
<de-facto> i think some even couple that with VR glasses and stream that live via wireless link
<EriC^^> i bet there's a million practical uses for 360videos
<lotuspsychje> im sure someone will invent a VR you can walk with on the street like google glass
<de-facto> avatar :P
<EriC^^> haha yeah
<lotuspsychje> pure evil i say
<lotuspsychje> :p
<de-facto> didnt google buy some robot company
<de-facto> ....
<de-facto> :P
<lotuspsychje> and everyone a google car
<EriC^^> google has become self-aware
<EriC^^> :p
<de-facto> jup i think it was boston dynamics
<EriC^^> it's actually running the company now and the headquarters is a hologram
<lotuspsychje> remembered when internet started to be popular we al go to yahoo and msn
<EriC^^> yeah yahoo was the main site before
<lotuspsychje> or altavista
<EriC^^> there was geocities for hosting
<BluesKaj> checked my Xenail update/upgrade, all went well, no stuckage
<lotuspsychje> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<de-facto> so you stay at home, no risk at all, having a robot do your daily stuff out there and you use vr for "tele presence", weird. hopefully that wont become reality
<BluesKaj> on the desktop install
<lotuspsychje> de-facto: it surely will, robots are taking over our jobs worldwide
<lotuspsychje> its no joke mate
<lotuspsychje> look it up
<de-facto> yeah just like AI
<EriC^^> it can have a lot of uses though
<EriC^^> robot with 360cam
<lotuspsychje> mcdonalds with auto burger delivery lol
<lotuspsychje> drones deliver pizza
<EriC^^> enters a building where humans can't cause of fire and saves people
<EriC^^> or space stuff or deep water diving
<EriC^^> of course we'll end up with a robot army probably
<EriC^^> gamers will rule the planet someday i guess, all the nintendo wii guys
<EriC^^> they should make a movie about this
<EriC^^> like in the end they go to a basement and there's a bunch of them there causing all the havoc
<de-facto> oh im sure there already are some
<lotuspsychje> rise of the machines
<lotuspsychje> http://techcrunch.com/2016/05/13/robots-wont-just-take-jobs-theyll-create-them/
<de-facto> ex machina
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> "Their predictions of what this would look like usually center around two scenarios: a dystopia where humans no longer have jobs or incomes, leading to increased income inequality and social upheaval, or a utopia where governments give incomes to their citizens, who will then be able to lead more productive, creative and entrepreneurial lives."
<EriC^^> which one do you think will happen?
<OerHeks> robots make robots, so i guess that is untrue, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> i think countries will be forced for a basic income soon
<lotuspsychje> zwitserland is about to vote for it in june
<lotuspsychje> if it passes, everyone get 2000 euro or so
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> so i hope it gets passed :p
<lotuspsychje> other countries will follow
<EriC^^> switzerland is very chill
<lotuspsychje> perhaps we should immigrate then lol
<EriC^^> yeah we should
<EriC^^> the suicide rate there is very high though
<de-facto> actually i think i remember having seen some engineers in japan developing AI and control systems (like image recognition and such ) on ubuntu boxes
<de-facto> have seen unity on their monitors
<EriC^^> i think it's cause everything is very easy for them, money jobs etc
<lotuspsychje> http://www.basicincome2016.org/
<lotuspsychje> de-facto: yeah there was a recent omgubuntu article about ubuntu in the wild
<lotuspsychje> de-facto: ubuntu desktop turned up everywhere
<lotuspsychje> scientists are trying to implant chips in the human brain
<lotuspsychje> transhumanism is real close upon us
<lotuspsychje> http://fusion.net/story/204316/darpa-is-implanting-chips-in-soldiers-brains/
<lotuspsychje> i like technology...but this is really going to far
<daftykins> you need to play the Deus Ex games :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ill start with the trailer daftykins
<de-facto> once i was talking to a medical doctor in the train, he an his team developed an interface for speaking to the nerve endings in the ear for making deaf patients hear
<EriC^^> yeah de-facto there's already that on youtube
<de-facto> they kinda reverse engineered the "conversations" on the nerves in the ears and now can provide implants with computer chips translating sounds to the nerves so they can understand that
<EriC^^> videos of people hearing for the first time
<EriC^^> they're like O.o then they start crying
<de-facto> same goes for eyes, there are retinal skin implants talking to the optical nerves and providing camera images
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: ;)
<de-facto> military is experimenting with direct brain interfaces (like those for helping paraplegic patients with computer interfaces) for controlling jets and weapons
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: fat!
<de-facto> guys im gonna have to disconnect for a while, playing around with my new lte stick on ubuntu :P
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: ill do this in the real world lol
<lotuspsychje> de-facto: have fun!
<lotuspsychje> and dont forget, ubuntu is our weapon!
<de-facto> thanks
<de-facto> always :P
<lotuspsychje> :p
<nicomachus> !info libsecp256k
<ubot5> Package libsecp256k does not exist in xenial
<nicomachus> !info libsecp256k1
<ubot5> Package libsecp256k1 does not exist in xenial
<nicomachus> !info secp256k
<ubot5> Package secp256k does not exist in xenial
<nicomachus> !info secp256k1
<ubot5> Package secp256k1 does not exist in xenial
<nicomachus> !info secp
<ubot5> Package secp does not exist in xenial
<baizon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w41jsZHKYVg
<lotuspsychje> nice :p
<baizon> damn i want a ubuntu phone so badly :D
<lotuspsychje> i have the 4.5 :p
<lotuspsychje> 169 euro
<baizon> noo, i want the Meizu MX4 or the Meizu Pro 5
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> the flagship :p
<baizon> yep
<baizon> but when ist more advanced
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<daftykins> *ring ring*
<daftykins> ah damn i can't answer my ubuntu phone, there's a screensaver lock screen that's not responding!
<daftykins> brb SSHing in to diagnose ;)
<EriC^^> daftykins: for real?
<daftykins> hehe nah
<daftykins> just teasing :>
<EriC^^> :)
<_3vi1_> I hope they package the new nvidia drivers in the graphics-drivers ppa soon.  Looks like a good bag o' fixes.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-05-21
<EriC^^> !info linux-generic
<ubot5> linux-generic (source: linux-meta): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.22.23 (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 11 kB
<de-facto> !ubuntu+1
<ubot5> Xenial Xerus is the codename for Ubuntu 16.04 - Support only in #ubuntu+1
<de-facto> ^^needs an update?
<baizon> indeed
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon
<lotuspsychje> hi de-facto
<de-facto> hey lotus :)
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1583114
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1583114 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Dhcpdiscover loops on interval until network-manager restart" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> still got the bug this morning
<dax> !-ubuntu+1
<ubot5> ubuntu+1 has no aliases - added by LjL on 2006-11-29 22:24:59 - last edited by Pici on 2013-06-26 19:09:18
<dax> !+ubuntu+1
<ubot5> <reply> $curDevelLong is the codename for Ubuntu $curDevelNum - Support only in #ubuntu+1
<dax> sigh
<dax> reported to bot person
<de-facto> who is that btw?
<juanmapalad> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<dax> de-facto: Pici
<dax> (he's the admin for ubottu.com, which is where those things live)
<juanmapalad> hi, ihave installed vmware in my aptop in ordr to install ubuntu desktop but it was unsuccessfull: http://imgur.com/QaedIqE
<juanmapalad> any advice
<baizon> enable virtualization for you cpu?
<baizon> exactly what that picture is saying
<de-facto> dax thanks thats good to know to whom to report :)
<dax> de-facto: probably your best bet is to just shout into the void in #ubuntu-irc and see who replies, imho
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> dax: in wich channel factoids request spam in?
<lotuspsychje> hi ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> hi, lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey EriC^^
<BluesKaj> Yakkety seems to be quite stable on the 4.6 kernel here, got rid of my nvidia driver build problem at least
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah saw you posting it, we had alot of users getting magic on 4.6 already
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, i didn't feel like waiting for the next kernel version to be loaded into the backports ...who knows how long that was going to take
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> 4.4 won't work for me anymore
<EriC^^> i get a high kidle_inject processes using cpu and i tried the rmmod intel_powercap fix and cpu kept heating up but no usage
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: cool eric
<EriC^^> i can't get vbox to work with 4.6 though
<EriC^^> that's why i was booting into 4.4
<EriC^^> it says to do modprobe vboxdrv
<EriC^^> modprobe: FATAL: Module vboxdrv not found in directory /lib/modules/4.6.0-040600rc6-generic
<EriC^^> !find vboxdrv
<ubot5> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 11 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=vboxdrv&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<EriC^^> it's been pretty long on 4.4.0-22
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, I saw anotice that KVM was turned off in the BIOS in plymouth after installing 4.6
<EriC^^> usually there are updates every couple weeks
<BluesKaj> why it specified KVM is a mystery to me
<EriC^^> yeah that's odd
<BluesKaj> maybe becuase I was going to install W7 guest on qemu-kvm , but I changed my mind and removed kvm so it disabled the virtualizer in the bios... just a guess
<lotuspsychje> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hey pauljw
<pauljw> morning BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> ok, time to check the Xenial install, bbiab
<baizon> !swearing
<ubot5> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-05-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> \o
 * daftykins yawns
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> long night?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> lotus can i borrow Â£528? http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Components/cat/Graphics-Cards-Nvidia/subcat/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1080
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> what a monster that is right
<daftykins> hehe yeah, although it's actually quite a flawed design from the reviews i've read... so i'll be waiting to see what the third party ones are like... plus the slightly slower 1070
<lotuspsychje> re-sale a few other stuff you have laying around :p
<lotuspsychje> thats how i do it if i need cash
<lotuspsychje> still got 2 laptops to sale 2nd hand here
<lotuspsychje> mac & acer
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> oh i'm not that desperate, in fact i just ordered a 500W PSU to throw in my old core 2 quad to get that up and working again
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> you keep all for yourself, ok thats also good
<daftykins> probably give that one away
<lotuspsychje> i recently received 4 sigar boxes full of ddr rams
<lotuspsychje> the uncle of my gf, goes to the trash containers where ppl throw away hardware
<lotuspsychje> and he takes all back to his home
<lotuspsychje> you wouldnt believe what ppl throw away!
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> laptops, screens,desktops with data, working hd's
<daftykins> oh i do, i hear about it a lot over here
<daftykins> a friend of my dad calls it "meerkat alley"
<daftykins> 'cause when anyone turns up, they all stand up and look over like meerkats ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> it'd be neat to hang out there, but it's a bit of a gamble
<daftykins> got enough crappy machines on the shelf already :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> i have plenty of hardware to start my business
<lotuspsychje> its a matter of time now :p
<daftykins> you got any laptop RAM in that collection? :>
<lotuspsychje> yes
<lotuspsychje> 40 banks
<daftykins> i'm still after a 2GB DDR2 SODIMM for the macbook i have here, shame TJ can't find it :D
<lotuspsychje> i got 2 sorts of formats
<lotuspsychje> those DIMMS are hard to get right?
<lotuspsychje> the most of what i have is ddr
<daftykins> could be, bit old now
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: can you send me a pic of the right model?
<lotuspsychje> ill have a look later
<daftykins> http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/macbook-3%2C1/CT7932255
<daftykins> crucial sell that sucker
<daftykins> there's some trick to it for macs though, hrmm
<lotuspsychje> put to favs
<lotuspsychje> ill search for it
<lotuspsychje> is this the same size as ddr banks or smaller?
<lotuspsychje> like thos older dimms are smaller then ddr
<daftykins> !mac
<ubot5> For help on installing and using Ubuntu on a Mac, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<daftykins> yep i picked the right model :D
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: is it for an empty model you have laying around?
<lotuspsychje> or does it have another slot with 1
<daftykins> it's got two existing modules yeah, 1 x 2GB and 1 x 512MB
<lotuspsychje> ah so if i dont find 2, 1 is also good?
<daftykins> weeell i'm really hoping to max it out and flip it :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah of course
<lotuspsychje> but if its free :p
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i have some 1GB modules here already as it goes
<lotuspsychje> ah
<daftykins> haven't been bothered to check if they work
<daftykins> still smells like a mac!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i have a working macbook late2006 here to seel also
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: http://www.2dehands.be/computer-game-consoles/computersystemen/apple-systemen/-koopje-macbook-pro-15-4-286894392.html
<daftykins> ah-har a pro
<lotuspsychje> have a nice sunday to all!
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj
<Bashing-om> Ben64: In a fresh install does the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream/+bug/1579712 appstream bug still apply ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1579712 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "Refresh hangs indefinitely, appstreamcli using 100% CPU" [High,Fix released]
<Ben64> not sure
<Bashing-om> Me neither ! .. Seems a possibility in raul782_ case .
<OerHeks> only for existing users of that package that turn their computer on, today
<Switches> In a fresh install from the current iso, it probably would unless they have the "get updates while installing" thing checked
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Of consideration here is a clean install of 16.04 .. Maybe if the burn is prior to the bug then it still applies ?
<OerHeks> oh ofcourse, clean install too
<Bashing-om> Re-booting to verify in terminal a command .. be back soonest .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-05-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: See, I did hold it for you .. WB :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx Bashing-om :p playing with aardvark here
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1690605
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1690605 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved: no dns resolution after upgrade to Artful" [Undecided,New]
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: still ? The edit to the resolv.conf (??) file does not fix ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yes, it fixxed! gonna reply on all existing bugs here
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Such a good man :)
<lotuspsychje> edited bug
<lotuspsychje> and gonna hunt down duplicates now
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2356787 can you confirm the same in this thread?
<lotuspsychje> 17.10 DNSSEC=off fixxed it
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not have 17.10 installed . Bit I will look at the link .
<lotuspsychje> i know, but i just tested it and fixxed
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: K .. default setting on 16.04 " #DNSSEC=no " .
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> hi vivsoni
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> im bugging out 17.10
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader[m]> Good morning
<lordievader[m]> Hey ducasse
<lordievader[m]> How are you?
<ducasse> hi lordievader[m], good thanks. all good with you too?
<lordievader[m]> Jup, doing fine here :)
<BluesKaj> howdy folks
<brunch875> hayo BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey brunch875
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj brunch875
<brunch875> o/ ducasse
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<lordievader[m]> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader[m]> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader[m] fine here, and you?
<lordievader[m]> I'm doing good, having lunch.
<oerheks> lunch ... waiting for the 1st graskaas this year
<oerheks> 2 weeks to go
<ducasse> aha, cheese...
<ducasse> good stuff?
<oerheks> jups, cheese made from fresh grass when the cows go outside
<ducasse> just read about it :)
<oerheks> date + 8 weeks
<immu> ducasse, BluesKaj
<immu> ducasse, BluesKaj hi
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-05-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader[m]> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader[m] xangua
<xangua> Good midnight
<lordievader[m]> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you?
<Bashing-om> Good deeds done this day - 4 stars - but I be backing out now . I feel good !
<lotuspsychje> have a nice night Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> great here lordievader[m] just wakeup
<Bashing-om> I shall, as I leave it in good hands .
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader[m]> Hey ducasse
<lordievader[m]> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader[m], good thanks. you also, i hope?
<lordievader[m]> Jup, sitting in the train.
<ducasse> ah, on way to work?
<lordievader[m]> Indeed
<lotuspsychje> oh no..crazytux in da house!
<lotuspsychje> he was banned ducasse ?
<ducasse> yes, he was. now he's pm'ing me...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> dont need this when waking up..
<lotuspsychje> well well, that worked out fast :p
<lordievader[m]> Have fun :p
<lotuspsychje> tnx lordievader[m]
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: "this is not fair" he said...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> sometimes i think, do they really belief theirselfs?
<ducasse> i can understand him, but i've told him how to get the ban lifted. but just coming in and lying to us when asked if the ban is lifted is not the way to go.
<ducasse> and he _did_ lie about using ubuntu, why should we believe him now?
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats the whole point
<lotuspsychje> cant support on fake facts
<ducasse> well, well. let's hope the day gets better from here :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> 25 degrees here today, we might get out ducasse
<ducasse> rain here, but it's kind of warm. tomorrow is our national holiday, if that's the right term.
<lotuspsychje> oh?
<lotuspsychje> 17 of may?
<lotuspsychje> we have it at 21 of july
<ducasse> yep, the day our constitution was signed.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> will that do anything special in norways streets?
<ducasse> parade etc. tons of people everywhere, no way in hell i'm going out ;)
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<lotuspsychje> we dont like the masses either..
<lotuspsychje> but in many cases, ppl have the same ideas..lets all go to the sea today
<ducasse> i can't stand crowds. my mother is bringing my sister's kids later in the week, going to some amusement rides etc.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> how old are they?
<ducasse> they'll be 3 and 8 this summer.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-guest-sessions-login-disabled
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1663157
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1663157 in lightdm (Ubuntu Artful) "Guest session processes are not confined in 16.10 and newer releases" [High,Triaged]
<ducasse> will there be an easy way to reenable it? guest session is good for debugging.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> fixxed my 17.10 bug the other day also
<lotuspsychje> DNSSEC=off did the trick
<lotuspsychje> linked 3 duplicates to each other, and added the solve on all
<ducasse> not sure if i'd call that a 'fix', but good work :)
<ducasse> the problem goes away, sure, but you no longer have dnssec :)
<lotuspsychje> reported in #ubuntu+1 and ubuntu-devel also
<ducasse> i think the move to resolved came a bit early
<lotuspsychje> this should have been solved already from previous existing bug
<lotuspsychje> not sure why stuff like that can keep showing up on new releases
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1690605
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1690605 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved: no dns resolution after upgrade to Artful" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ducasse> resolved has worked well for me, but issues in main lead me to think it might be a piece of junk...
<ducasse> seems to break so easily
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys
<lotuspsychje> going to the sea
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - has your cold gotten better?
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse, somewhat, it's still hanging on, quite virulent, but I'll survive :-)
<ducasse> good, hope you get well soon :)
<BluesKaj> thanks ducasse, I'm sure I will
<BluesKaj> wife is feeding me lots of vitamin C and lemon
<oerheks> lightdm/systemd security flaw .... "Canonical has already pushed out a update that temporarily disables Ubuntu guest session logins (so if you noticed it was missing, thatâs why)." http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-guest-sessions-login-disabled
<akik_> oerheks: what does it mean for the guest session to be confined?
<oerheks> akik_, due to a systemd bug, guest account is disabled temporary
<oerheks> you *can* enable it again, if you need to, but it will be unsafe, well, unsafe if you know what to do
<akik_> oerheks: i meant what does it mean that a guest session is confined or not?
<akik_> is it something about seeing other resources of the system?
<oerheks> confined - limited, but in this case disabled
<oerheks> yes, access files and possibly other resources that they would not typically have access to
<oerheks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2017/CVE-2017-8900.html
<chatter29> hey guys
<oerheks> nuts puzzle .... 800 mb is nice
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
<oerheks> chatter29, bye
<oerheks> we don't like slaves.
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-05-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^ !
<lotuspsychje> how are you?
<EriC^^> good you?
<lotuspsychje> wow 168mb updates
<lotuspsychje> great here EriC^^ working day
<lotuspsychje> 29 degrees in belgium today
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> ububtu base
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.78.84 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> think i have seen some wayland packages during update of aardvark
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ^
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Guess our developers are gearing up for wayland to be the default .
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> bit weird waylanbd still with unity now lol
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse xangua lordievader[m]
<lotuspsychje> working day here ducasse and 29 degrees
<xangua> Midnight here
<lotuspsychje> where is that xangua
<xangua> MÃ©xico
<xangua> Well 1 am already
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lordievader[m]> Hey ducasse, lotuspsychje, xangua
<lordievader[m]> How are you all?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<xangua> Broken
<ducasse> hi lordievader[m]
<lotuspsychje> on the train again lordievader[m] ?
<lotuspsychje> the [m] stands for mobile right?
<lordievader[m]> The [m] stands for Matrix ;)
<lordievader[m]> This time I'm not in a train.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-survey-1710
<xangua> lotuspsychje: can we have window controls at the bottom center?
<lordievader[m]> lotuspsychje: The nice thing about Matrix is that I get push notifications to my phone if someone mentions my name.
<lotuspsychje> xangua: vote for the best
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<lotuspsychje> working day
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw
<BluesKaj> what's new?
<pauljw> not much new here BluesKaj, made a road trip to new jersey over the weekend for my brothers' surprise 60th bday party.  then had lots to get done yesterday like bailing the lawn... :)
<BluesKaj> nice  :-)
<BluesKaj> been laid up with a virulent cold...my plans are on hold for now ...the yard needs attention , but it has to wait
<pauljw> oh no, sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon.
<BluesKaj> well, it's a setback , but I'll catch up
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> biab, time to ride to school.
<pauljw> back
<oerheks> :-)
<pauljw> my daughter is driving to and from school but is still on her permit so i have to go along. :)
<pauljw> brb, need to reboot this mess following updates...
<ducasse> aren't there any ops present in main? i was under the impression 'dreaman' was pretty persona non grata after his constant trolling...
<nacc> that would be great if they can be klined or something at this point
<nacc> *I* got klined for typing too quickly last week :)
<ducasse> should i ask in #ubuntu-ops?
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> hey guys, wanna take the 17.10 desktop survey for me?
<lotuspsychje> https://goo.gl/forms/y33GYsiEe6BH6m3t1
<lotuspsychje> lets make gnome great by default
<BluesKaj> sorry , not me :-)
<lotuspsychje> no sweat BluesKaj
<ducasse> if this is at all gnome-related i'm probably a bad candidate :)
<oerheks> "Sign in to your Google account to fill out this form" .... no joey
<lotuspsychje> well its good they want the users opinion right?
<oerheks> another hoax ... https://twitter.com/hackerfantastic/status/863359375787925505
<oerheks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-survey-1710
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: you think they wont influence gnome?
<ducasse> oerheks: funny :)
<oerheks> i think it does not what that dude says
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: you dont like joey from omg right :p
<lotuspsychje> and BluesKaj doesnt like phoronix
<lotuspsychje> is there any good linux news out there?
<oerheks> lotuspsychje, oh no, he is doing a great job, but i don't do surveys with google
<nacc> LWN
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, i don't trust his sources
<lotuspsychje> lets c nacc
<nacc> https://lwn.net/
<oerheks> i suspect he uses a lot of things *we* talk about, that is nice ( if he would give us credit too)
<lotuspsychje> lol, found on irc..
<nacc> i feel like verything else is (legitimate or otherwise) clickbait these days
<immu> ducasse, BluesKaj hi all, lotuspsychje i got banned
<lotuspsychje> why immu
<lotuspsychje> uh-oh..that escaladed quick
<BluesKaj> immu, banned where?
<lotuspsychje> and for what
<immu> http://eu1.dronebl.org/lookup_branded.do?ip=86.99.123.222
<immu> check here all
<oerheks> immu why would we check your drones ??
<lotuspsychje> lol
<immu> i don't know
 * lotuspsychje is a lil lost..drones got banned?
<immu> A listing in DroneBL is NOT always related to spam. But in most cases because of an open proxy !!!
<immu> full message.
<immu> You are banned from this server- You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For
<immu> more information, visit
<immu> http://eu1.dronebl.org/lookup_branded.do?ip=86.99.123.222  Please contact
<immu> proxyscan@freenode.net with questions. (2017/5/16 17.03)
<immu> so i mailed them and got my ban removed
<immu> :)
<lotuspsychje> i was thinking, grub can be lost/damaged by other things then windows right?
<lotuspsychje> !recovergrub
<ubot5> Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub
<lotuspsychje> confused a user this morning
<immu> hmm
<nacc> lotuspsychje: you can break grub with linux :)
<lotuspsychje> nacc: :p
<nacc> e.g., dd over your MBR
<nacc> i mean, windows breaks it quicker, probably :)
<lotuspsychje> oh well, the url is there so
<immu> hmm
<lotuspsychje> what hmm immu ?
<Bashing-om> Multi booting several 'buntu releases .. I have a lot of experience breaking grub :P
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: lol
<immu> critical thinking at your thoughts :) lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> Lost GRUB after installing another Operating system? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub
<lotuspsychje> would this be better nacc?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: oh i was just kidding
<nacc> lotuspsychje: more than likely it can just be 'Lost GRUB?'
<lotuspsychje> no, i mean would this be valid?
<lotuspsychje> or are there other ways to loose grub non-os related?
<nacc> off the top of my head, i don't know
<nacc> i imagine once could fubar the grub cfg
<lotuspsychje> yeah was just thinking, delating stuf
<lotuspsychje> delete
<immu> MBR attacked by some virus
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: What I see most often in multi-booting is recursion within the grub.cfg file from other install's grub .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ok great but in theory perhaps messing with other boot programs like lilo could break grub also perhaps?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Oh gosh .. been so long since I messed with lilo. will have to think on this .
<nacc> lotuspsychje: i think, if using lilo or others on normal systems, it will *replace* grub
<nacc> in the boot sector
<nacc> lilo is rarely used outside of ia64/power, though, right?
<nacc> and power went to yaboot
<nacc> and is now grub2
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<immu> This is a synopsis of recent activity in DroneBL. DroneBL is a realtime monitor of abusable IPs, which has the goal of stopping abuse of infected machines.
<nacc> so yes, installing lilo then runing lilo --install or whatever, would break grub :)
<nacc> but you'd need to be root
<lotuspsychje> just thinking of the trigger nacc, what else could happen to break
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, i'm not sure you can come up with a fully-inclusive list
<nacc> what you have is probably good enough
<ducasse> you might be overthinking this, lotus :)
<lotuspsychje> ill think nacc first sugestion to keep it simple would be best then
<lotuspsychje> Have you lost GRUB? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub to restore it.
<nacc> +1
<lotuspsychje> but i doubt the ops gonna like this
<lotuspsychje> they surely will ask why to erase windows :p
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje> !ubports is Ubuntu Touch is the touch-friendly mobile version of the Ubuntu operating system. Originally designed and developed by Canonical, it now lives on in the UBports community. Visit us @ https://ubports.com/ and #ubports on irc
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje> !recovergrub is Have you lost GRUB? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub to restore it.
<lotuspsychje> <ubottu> Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
<lotuspsychje> there
<lotuspsychje> have a nice evening to all, work tomorrow
<lotuspsychje> dont forget to vote for gnome 17.10 baizon akik_ Ben64 immu lordievader Mr_0_ nicomachus wafflejock https://goo.gl/forms/y33GYsiEe6BH6m3t1
<lotuspsychje> laterz
 * nacc thinks gear4 shouldn't have bid on a contract they don't undrestand
<ducasse> something is fishy here...
<nacc> yeah, my instinct was trolling
<nacc> you can setup fully unauth'd ssh
<nacc> but it's so terrible that no one does
<nacc> and if any client machine is compromised, there goes your repo
<ducasse> he's not listening to that, though.
<nacc> right
<nacc> and called me blind and arthiritic instead :)
<ducasse> :)
<nacc> ducasse: i'm tempted to ask what company they are contracting with and make sure not to order anything from them :)
<ducasse> is this too rude: ?
<ducasse> gear4: you might want to take into consideration that when everybody tells you something is stupid there's a good chance it is, and maybe pass that on to whoever's in charge...
<nacc> ducasse: i just don't think they are responsive
<nacc> to such feedback, i mean
<ducasse> ok, then screw it and good luck to him :)
<nacc> i also stand by my position that it's not an ubuntu support topic to a) solve a non-problem that they are being paid to solve b) configure a service for a user in an insecure way
<ducasse> i whole-heartedly agree. kind of like helping people do their homework.
<nacc> yeah -- or at least be up front that "i can't do my job, how do i do this?" :)
<ducasse> :)
<immu> survey done
<DJones> Anobody thats on Ubuntu 17.04 (Unity) can you check something for me, right clicking on the desktop lets me create a new folder, but not a new document, is that right, I'm sure I used to be able to create new text documents etc
<DJones> Ah never mind, default Nautilus file browser lacks âNew Documentâ option in its context menu (right-click menu) in my fresh installed Ubuntu 17.04
<nacc> DJones: LP: #1437502 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1437502 in Ubuntu GNOME "nautilus lacking 'new document' in context menu on GNOME" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437502
<nacc> DJones: i found another bug that was duped to that one that was about unity (i think)
<DJones> nacc: Yeah, touch ~/Templates/Untitled\ Document fixes the issue, looks like a nautilus bug/issue
<nacc> DJones: ah ok
<DJones> http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2017/04/enable-new-document-context-menu-in-ubuntu-17-04/
<DJones> Seems to explain it
<DJones> ducasse: Sorry for pm
<ducasse> DJones: np. the way he was harassing ikonia for a while i didn't expect that to happen soon :)
<immu> DJones, no new right click for docs menu entry not present
<Ben64> heh, can pick both left and right side for window controls on the survey
<nacc> is it confusing to anyone else when someone comes in and doesn't know what ubuntu they are running?
<nacc> i'm trying to think of reasons that happens
<nacc> I guess if a University gives you a VM or something
<nacc> or your company does
<nacc> but presuming you installed it -- how do you not know what version you installed
<nacc> maybe people are so used to the loud windows splash screen?
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-05-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> working day
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys
<lordievader[m]> Good morning
<ducasse> morning
<lordievader[m]> Hey ducasse, how are you
<lordievader[m]> ?
<ducasse> i'm ok, thanks, and you?
<lordievader[m]> Doing good here :)
<ducasse> lordievader[m]: #ubuntu is certainly lively this morning, some days i just want to do something else...
<lordievader[m]> Then do something else ;)
<lordievader[m]> You are not getting payed to do this right?
<ducasse> considering it :) no, i'm not, but i like doing what i can for the community. today might be a good day to work on translations :)
<lordievader[m]> Same here, I like helping people get their systems working again. But if I have no time for it, it is too bad.
<ducasse> no, long rants on why win10 is spyware etc is just a waste of everyone's time. it seems quiet again now, though.
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> everyone got pwned lol? https://haveibeenpwned.com/
<lotuspsychje> https://www.linux.org/threads/linux-ransomware.4424/
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic artfull
<ubot5> 'artfull' is not a valid distribution: artful, artful-backports, artful-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xenial-proposed, yakkety, yakkety-backports
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic artful
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.10.0.20.22 (artful), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> hey xangua
<xangua> Sup
<lotuspsychje> fooling around with aardvark xangua Âµ
<lotuspsychje> xangua: cant get online with a dnssec bug
<lotuspsychje> spams my syslog every sec
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-05-19
<nacc> Bashing-om: probably worth a ban at this point
<nacc> for janny
<Bashing-om> Not sure of there is not a serious language barrier here also . Thin ice either way .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader[m]> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader[m] kostkon Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> morning tea here, rainy day
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o .. makes for a good irc day :)
<lotuspsychje> not here Bashing-om working day : (
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Some ome has to pay up for the taxes :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I tell the truth - for some years I did subsistence living - I was glad to pay taxes when I was able !
<lotuspsychje> i bet Bashing-om :p
<lordievader[m]> Hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lordievader[m]> Hey ducasse
<lordievader[m]> How are you doing, ducasse ?
<ducasse> good thanks, and yourself?
<lordievader[m]> Doing good here :)
<ducasse> very quiet this morning, good opportunity to catch up on some news :)
<lordievader[m]> Indeed.
<immu> hi all
<lordievader[m]> Hey immu
<oerheks> grinn https://www.sudosatirical.com/articles/canonical-reboots-convergence-introduces-the-no-desktop-environment/
<lordievader[m]> sudosatirical is quite funny.
<lordievader[m]> https://www.sudosatirical.com/articles/man-loses-will-to-live-during-gentoo-install/
<lordievader[m]> https://www.sudosatirical.com/articles/kde-user-in-awe-experiences-stability-first-time/
<oerheks> indeed, 1st time i noticed, thanks to reddit
<oerheks> Ubuntu fan wakes up from two year coma ...
<oerheks> Hilarious
<lordievader[m]> Yeah, I learned of the site too via reddit (/r/linux).
<immu> hey lordievader[m]
<lordievader[m]> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<immu> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<lordievader[m]> Het BluesKaj
<lordievader[m]> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader[m], ok here, and you ?
<lordievader[m]> Doing good here too :)
<oerheks> Windows 10 S won't run Linux, says Microsoft \0/ best news today
<DArqueBishop> Windows 10 S won't run a lot of stuff, so the Linux subsystems aren't a surprise.
<BluesKaj> W10 is hopeless
<KristijanZic> Need assistance. I've installed the light-themes_16.10+17.10.20170515.1-0ubuntu1_all.deb from omgubuntu.co.uk to my 17.04 and the theme got broken because some apps in ubuntu use toolbar instead of headerbar. When I want to delete the light-themes package it also wants to delete the ubuntu-artwork and ubuntu-desktop packages. What should I do? If I enable CSD I'll loose HUD on the affected apps but that fixes the theming
<KristijanZic> because the app uses header bar then :/
<nacc> KristijanZic: install the one for your release
<nacc> KristijanZic: `apt policy light-themes` shoudl show you possible version numbers to use
<nacc> KristijanZic: `sudo apt install light-themes=<version>`
<nacc> KristijanZic: and next time, don't do such things without knowing how to undo them (you had to install the themes as root, you should know how to undo it)
<nacc> KristijanZic: note also, /topic specifies your request should be in #ubuntu
<immu> hi all
<immu> ducasse: hi lordievader[m]
<KristijanZic> nacc: Thank you! It was on #ubuntu but got left in history. I thought I knew how, I was wrong. Why? I'm exploring my system (in somewhat safe manner), Isn't that the whole point? And I have you guys here for occasional assistance and you have me unlike if I was running windows.
<nacc> KristijanZic: ah ok
<nacc> KristijanZic: well, as root, if you do something, it often cannot be undone.
<nacc> KristijanZic: so my point is, know what you're doing. IMO, root isn't for exploring.
<nacc> KristijanZic: or be willing to reinstall your system
<KristijanZic> nacc: That's why I'm in the vm. I didn't know about apt policy.
<nacc> KristijanZic: you never said VM :)
<nacc> KristijanZic: then you are fine :)
<KristijanZic> nacc: you would have told me to reinstall it :P
<nacc> KristijanZic: yeah, it's a VM, who cares? :)
<nacc> KristijanZic: i would have told you to restore from a backup
<KristijanZic> I wouldn't learn anything then, that's the point also.
<nacc> you would learn not to do experimental things without backups.
<nacc> I stand by my earlier point, if you're root, you should know what you're doing and how to undo it.
<nacc> Or be willing to accept the consequences of doing things as root
<nacc> Too many users in #ubuntu don't bother doing that
<KristijanZic> nacc: I agree 100% with you on that
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<MentallyRetired> hiya
<lotuspsychje> hi MentallyRetired first join on discuss?
<MentallyRetired> yup yup
<lotuspsychje> MentallyRetired: welcome here
<MentallyRetired> recently switched back to windows from mac and not really satisfied, plus tired of blue screens
<MentallyRetired> and I've dabbled with ubuntu before, but now seriously considering a switch to it for my primary desktop
<MentallyRetired> plus it runs rocket league, so w00t
<lotuspsychje> MentallyRetired: wich ubuntu version did you choose?
<lotuspsychje> !info plank
<ubot5> plank (source: plank): Elegant, simple, clean dock. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.11.1-1 (xenial), package size 81 kB, installed size 378 kB
<MentallyRetired> 16.04? what do youmean
<MentallyRetired> 16.04 with unity
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats what i was after :p
<MentallyRetired> I installed cinnamon but not a fan of the UI. unity is what really got me seriously thinking about linux for my daily driver
<MentallyRetired> nice and polished UI is a must for design snobs like me :)
<xangua> Unity is no more
<lotuspsychje> MentallyRetired: 18.04 will have back gnome as default
<MentallyRetired> I know :(
<MentallyRetired> it makes sense
<MentallyRetired> gnome doesnt look too bad though
<xangua> At least until someone brings a usable fork, but it will be unity 8, not 7
<MentallyRetired> I think thats my biggest issue with OSS
<MentallyRetired> sooo much fragmentation
<MentallyRetired> people aren't willing to accept something they dont 100% agree with, it seems
<lotuspsychje> thats why canonical wants opinions now
<lotuspsychje> take the vote also MentallyRetired
<MentallyRetired> the vote?
<xangua> Where can I vote? Lost the page
<xangua> I won't be using gnome shell tho
<lotuspsychje> https://goo.gl/forms/y33GYsiEe6BH6m3t1
<lotuspsychje> xangua: what will you change to mate?
<xangua> To KDE probably
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> i feel like back in the days of linux now, choosing KDE or GNOME ate setup hehe
<MentallyRetired> haha
<MentallyRetired> thats the linux I'm more familiar with
<MentallyRetired> I could get it installed but couldnt do crap from there
<MentallyRetired> good ol fedora
<lotuspsychje> redhat back in the days
<MentallyRetired> pardon my ignorance, but what is KDE neon?
<MentallyRetired> KDE just sits on top of a linux distro, right?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: can you explain ^
<MentallyRetired> KDE is the 'windows' to ubuntu's msdos?
<MentallyRetired> lol
<MentallyRetired> kde, gnome, unity are all window UI systems, I know that much
<lotuspsychje> newest snaps guys: https://uappexplorer.com/apps?type=snappy&page=1
<MentallyRetired> I've had gnome on fedora, ubuntu etc
<MentallyRetired> but what the heck is KDE neon? just a bunch of software apps? or is it its own OS
<MentallyRetired> ok yeah, kde neon runs on plasma
<lotuspsychje> or perhaps lordievader can explain
<baizon> MentallyRetired: kde neon is kde + ubuntu lts
<ducasse> MentallyRetired: kde neon is a kind of 'reference implementation' of kde on top of an ubuntu-based os
<MentallyRetired> there we go, ok cool
<MentallyRetired> kde's website doesnt really mention ubuntu
<MentallyRetired> I found them listing canonical as a partner or supporter or something
<BluesKaj> MentallyRetired,  https://neon.kde.org/download
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-05-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> 'nother glorious day for you !
<lotuspsychje> working day!
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: And thankful to be working :)
<lotuspsychje> hey zhanx
<zhanx> lotuspsychje: i am doing a fun pc with mineral oil cooling etc. just trying to watch the hardware on it
<lotuspsychje> great
<zhanx> so not your standard dell or gateway etc
<lotuspsychje> zhanx: there is an ubuntu certified hardware url also, but as i said, doesnt mean other systems cant run ubuntu properly
<lotuspsychje> zhanx: best way is to just try/install
<zhanx> yea and that costs money on the tests etc
<zhanx> but like i said i will wing it
<EriC^^> morning guys
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> nothing much, chill before work EriC^^
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> it's raining here
<EriC^^> damn now it's sunny
<EriC^^> or i was dreamings it's raining :P
 * EriC^^ gets out of bed to check
<xangua> Looking nice https://youtu.be/92s0aYnD3DE
<EriC^^> yeah it's raining
<EriC^^> wow that's pro
<lotuspsychje> got plans for today EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon xangua ducasse
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did you vote already? https://goo.gl/forms/y33GYsiEe6BH6m3t1
<baizon> what are the results?
<lotuspsychje> baizon: dont think canonical gives that out
<lotuspsychje> baizon: just collects 1 vote/per google account
<baizon> ehh
<lotuspsychje> *yet
<lotuspsychje> i didnt excpect canonical would influence gnome...
<lotuspsychje> as they told at first not to interfere with 'gnomes ways'
<xangua> Hi
<xangua> Just voted
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: not much
<lotuspsychje> tnx xangua
<lotuspsychje> hi fr0tzed
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys
<baizon> omg
<baizon> someone stole my cpu!
<lordievader[m]> Good morning
<EriC^^> morning lordievader[m]
<lordievader[m]> Hey EriC^^ , how are you doing?
<EriC^^> good thanks, you?
<lordievader[m]> Doing good here
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<brunch875> g'monrnin' BluesKaj
<brunch875> hope the night was refreshing and you're full of energy
<oerheks> meurning
<BluesKaj> hey brunch875, not exactly, but I'll get by
<brunch875> I recommend plenty of water then!
<lordievader[m]> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader[m]> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> still dealing with a virulent cold, It's almost done, but the cough is persistent :/
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader[m]
<oerheks> When you start getting wings, you have the birdflu?
<lordievader[m]> BluesKaj: Annoying, glad it is getting beter.
<BluesKaj> oerheks, I got the rockin' pneumonia and the boogie-woogie flu :-)
<brunch875> damn
<oerheks> visual studio snap ... http://news.softpedia.com/news/you-can-now-install-microsoft-s-visual-studio-code-ide-as-a-snap-on-ubuntu-linux-515882.shtml
<Bashing-om> Here I go again .. all rested up and raring to go :)
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: \o .. good day on our neighborhood ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: the usual lunacy :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Oh ! .. the things that keep us sane :P
<daftykins> ^_^
<immu> daftykins, Bashing-om ducasse BluesKaj hi all, and Bashing-om are you of senior age
<Bashing-om> immu: How do you define "senior age " - Old enough to know better, too young to resist ?
<immu> like BluesKaj is of senior age ? so much so he is uncle grandpa :) Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> immu: We;, yeah .. I fit into the grampaw catagory :)
<immu> how old are you? then Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> immu: Last account I took was over 65 years of age .
<immu> awww, now we have two uncle grandpa's :)
<Bashing-om> immu: :) .. " do not do as we do; do as we say do "
<immu> oke Bashing-om
 * oerheks age is 7x7
<Bashing-om> *oerheks* old 'nuf to know better too .
<ducasse> oerheks: are you counting in dog-years?
<immu> ducasse, lol oerheks
<immu> its nice to have elders here :)
<Bashing-om> immu: let me remind you - that I have seen 14 year olds that can run circles of knowledge/ability around me ! - all depends on what you seek :)
<immu> fair enought
<immu> fair enough :) Bashing-om
<oerheks> wraf
<BluesKaj> Gonna watch Blade Runner tonight , newly released on bluray withenhanced video and 5.1 AC3 audio ...great old movies
<BluesKaj> one of the great old movies, rather
<ducasse> blade runner is a classic :)
<BluesKaj> sure is ducasse, nice to see it in re-release
<ducasse> "i watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the tannhÃ¤user gate..." :)
<BluesKaj> LA 2019 :-)
<immu> cool BluesKaj
<ducasse> BluesKaj: might be going to see the new alien movie tomorrow, if we get tickets. i've been a big fan since the first film came out, even though i was way too young to see it - it scared me stiff at the time. :)
<BluesKaj> ducasse,  yeah, 1977 iirc
<BluesKaj> oops 1979
<ducasse> i was probably 8 or 9 when i saw it on video, a good ten years too soon ;)
<ducasse> BluesKaj: was just thinking of watching 2001 again the other day, another one of the classics. very different, though.
<BluesKaj> ducasse,  ever read the book it's based on , Childhood's End ?...excellent read
<BluesKaj> arthur C Clark
<ducasse> yep, read most of clark's stuff.
<ducasse> _long_ ago, though.
<BluesKaj> cool stuff ...yeah a while ago alright
<ducasse> i actually liked rendezvous with rama, but not the rest of the rama series...
<BluesKaj> never read the rama books
<ducasse> iirc they're not very popular. imo how you perceive a lot of sf depends on what you've read before - how new/interesting the concepts are to you.
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-05-21
<Bashing-om> outta here \o
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<brunch875> heya BluesKaj, feeling a bit better?
<BluesKaj> hi brunch875, yes, shouldbe 100% soon :-) , how's things with you?
<brunch875> a bit stressed but otherwise good :)
<BluesKaj> stressed, anything linux related?
<BluesKaj> i don't like to delve into personal issues since i consider that kind of thing none of anyone's business ...I'm old school that way
<BluesKaj> anyway, we're getting much needed rain here , finally
<oerheks> yay, rain, shampoo in your hair and dance outside \0/
<BluesKaj> hey oerheks I'm not that happy about it, let's not get carried away here
<BluesKaj> it's a long weekwnd here so the wather is dampening some people's fun, that's for sure
<BluesKaj> weather even
<brunch875> BluesKaj: Finishing college so I'm working on my degree project. The deadline is approaching and it's a big deal for me to succeed. Once I'm done, life is going to be different
<brunch875> all work and no play makes /me a dull boy
<brunch875> I'm going to savor weekends once I start working
<oerheks> "when you finished school, learning starts again" said my headmaster
<brunch875> yeah, but learning without pressure is leisure
<BluesKaj> brunch875, well, I wish you the best in your future endeavours. I'm sure you'll do very well. There's time for fun once the work is finished as the old saying goes ;-)
<brunch875> I'm sure I'll do fine. Others have just started with it right now and I've been working on it for months
<immu> hi all
<immu> BluesKaj, ducasse EriC^^ lordievader
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<immu> how are you all doing
<immu> did you watch the blade runner?
<BluesKaj> not yet
<immu> ok
<ducasse> buenos dias!
<BluesKaj> ducasse, hola
<Bashing-om> OK, prepared to have fun now :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<Bashing-om> \o lotuspsychje !
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: A pleasnt Sunday afternoon here ( 02:00 ) . Activity in main is brisk :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: sunny familly day here
<lotuspsychje> with lots of food & drinks
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: OUch ! 14:00 !
<Bashing-om> Family and food will alway make for a great day :D
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys
<daftykins> weyhey the result of PIA's funded OpenVPN audit - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/16/openvpn_security_audit/
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-05-14
 * tomreyn just learnt that ubuntu should actually mount /boot/efi (and any vfat FS) with the 'discard' option if this is on a storage which supports TRIM. that's because vfat supports TRIM only in this immediate way, and (the weekly cron job which runs) fstrim -a will not handle vfat at all.
<tomreyn> https://askubuntu.com/questions/391101/does-trim-work-with-fat32
<oerheks> .. and HFS+ .. amazing ..
<tomreyn> i dont see discard / trim listed at https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/hfsplus.txt
<oerheks> yes, amazing
<oerheks> :_D
<tomreyn> oh, ok :)
<tomreyn> ntfs doesn't mention discard / trim either
<oerheks> i am not sure fat32 is a good idea, as it can contain that special UEFI part
<tomreyn> how do you mean "that special uefi part"?
<oerheks> an UEFI partition to enable secure boot, on newer systems
<tomreyn> i think you're referring to the ESP
<Menzador> Yeah, the ESP (EFI System Partition)
<oerheks> jups, and that would be fat32
<Menzador> tomreyn, actually that's a good tip as my next machine will have an SSD, thanks
<tomreyn> it's just a fat file system, which uefi supposedly reads in a similar way as linux
<tomreyn> the ESP is usually tiny and doesn't get a lot of writes, so it's not too important. but still nice to have.
<Menzador> I mean the recommended size is a quarter of a gig
<tomreyn> > nothing
<tomreyn> on a side note, i just ran into /usr/share/doc/util-linux/examples/fstrim.{timer,service}
<tomreyn> debian lacks the weekly fstrim cron job, so i enabled it there.
<nicomachus> Bashing-om: rutorrent is a torrent website, not a program.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Well, thanks .. brenster23 is not to knowledgeable, and I sure did not know :)
<nicomachus> np :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: is back ! Hide all the women :D
<lotuspsychje> lol hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Been too long - I sleep while you are on ?
<lotuspsychje> been on weekend Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: weekends are good things :)
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader - how are you today?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse , doing good here. How are you?
<ducasse> all good so far, thanks
<lordievader> ð
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx lordievader and you?
<lordievader> Doing okay here
 * oerheks feels sad, just ran out of coffee-creamer
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> something broken, lotus computers repairs
<oerheks> yay
<oerheks> broken
<oerheks> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/05/attention-pgp-users-new-vulnerabilities-require-you-take-action-now
<oerheks> https://twitter.com/seecurity/status/995906576170053633
<oerheks> LoLz, some have knowledge of this for abot 4 years, i guess
<lordievader> From a different channel: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2018-May/060315.html
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<oerheks> heya BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey oerheks
<JimBuntu> Good morning my fellow non-bots.
<oerheks> bliep
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu....grok
<oerheks> more about gpg.. https://efail.de/efail-attack-paper.pdf
<oerheks> fddasdf-dude ignores the wiki, so i have warned him 3 times..
<BluesKaj> he's an idiot
<oerheks> good ol' apt
<oerheks> noooo... i think he is blind
<lordievader> About the gpg flaw, if your client doesn't actively do things with the html (load images, for example) you should be fine.
<BluesKaj> seems there's no more access to akonadi-server in kubuntu to change settings for the file indexer baloo
<BluesKaj> file indexer/search
<BluesKaj> users complained about akonadi's bugs and now that they are solved access to GUI settings is no longer available. How does that make sense?
<leftyfb> jmgb4: and by "get around" , that would imply they are actively ON the same local network and have access to all services services on that network
<leftyfb> services/served
<jmgb4> Its not that hard... It depends on how you footprint and scan with nmap (or whatever tools you use)
<leftyfb> footprint? scan with nmap?
<leftyfb> please explain
<jmgb4> So how experienced are you?
<jmgb4> If you dont know what footprinting and nmap is I am not sure where to go to even begin
<leftyfb> sysadmin/devops for over 20 years, built multiple datacenters from the ground up and had to manage over 3000 servers running Debian/Ubuntu 24/7 for the largest shared hosting company in the world
<leftyfb> I am well aware of nmap. Never heard of it being used to "get around" NAT, nor am I familiar with the term footprinting
<jmgb4> It is just doing a thorough scan. Seeing where they are going, whats coming to it, what protocols are being used, what ports..
<leftyfb> yup, I just read about it ... I get a basic understanding
<leftyfb> you're building a profile of security measures in use
<jmgb4> How well you can footprint will usually give you an idea of what their internal network looks like. How well you can read that traffic and set metasploit packages to each and every port / protocol you think is going on is what will eventually leak their internal network ip / range / cidr / whatever
<leftyfb> lets say you've got a typical home network with a ISP's modem in bridge mode and an off the shelf router using NAT. No ports are open/forwarding. No UPNP. No DMZ. How does a script kiddie go about "getting around" the NAT. How does that script kiddie get onto the local network and are now able to browse Windows share for instance.
<jmgb4> Theres always something open.
<leftyfb> negative
<leftyfb> And even so, just because someone has SSH or a VPN port open, does not make it easy for a script kiddie to get onto the local network
<jmgb4> Lets back up one more step here. Do I know a network lives at X ip or am I scanning randomly
<leftyfb> you're targeting a public IP
<jmgb4> That I know exists?
<leftyfb> no ports are open, get around NAT
<jmgb4> You wait. A port will open
<leftyfb> UPNP is off. Grandma doesn't know how to open ports
<jmgb4> There will be a session up eventually. If you konw the network you will know the natted ip. All you have to do is wait for a session to open and hijack it
<leftyfb> If your assumption is that some port is always going to be open/forwarding and you have an exploit for the protocol listening on that port that allows you root/local control, then to say that NAT is inherently insecure by itself is false.
<JimBuntu> if there is a service listening on an open port (on the target) and you have a metasploit vuln, and you use it... you didn't get in due to some issue with NAT, you got in due to the sploit/vuln.
<jmgb4> Its all about the footpting. I have yet to see a network (still learning here) that doesnt leak or give hints at if it is behind a nat or not
<JimBuntu> Again, how does the use of NAT add to the vulnerability?
<leftyfb> that does alone not open the door for script kiddies
<leftyfb> boy, bad English there ... just woke up :)
<JimBuntu> jmgb4, I don't want you to feal like you are being attacked or jumped, but this is an interesting discussion and I simply don't see any real danger coming from the use of NAT itself.
<jmgb4> It doesnt "add" to a vulnerability. I said before its like closing your blinds and pretending you are not there. There will be signs you are.
<JimBuntu> Oh, I thought you said something like "closing the blinds and now we are safe"
<leftyfb> jmgb4: I encourage your path to knowledge and understanding, especially around infoSEC, as long as it's for the greater good. But to post in a public support channel that NAT as a security method is insecure and easily circumvented is just plain false and can cause undo confusion and concern.
<leftyfb> jmgb4: It would have been better to say NAT can be easily circumvented if you are forwarding ports to protocols that are easily exploited.
<jmgb4> leftyfb, So you are saying a  nat is all yo uneed?
<JimBuntu> Are there people who use NAT (alone) for security?
<leftyfb> jmgb4: If you are grandma with nothing but an ISP's modem, off the shelf router with NAT an UPNP disabled and tablet or chromebook then yes, that's all she needs to not have to worry about a script kiddies "getting around" NAT.
<jmgb4> JimBuntu Yes. There are still people that hook up modems directly to the internet with no security enabled.
<leftyfb> most modems from ISP's these days have a router using NAT built in
<jmgb4> My modem had NAT and forwarding enabled. I was able to scan myself and figure out my internal / external ips.
<leftyfb> ok?
<leftyfb> That is not "getting around" NAT
<leftyfb> knowing a local ip does very little
<leftyfb> jmgb4: Also, I assume you did this scan from an external location. Not scanning your public ip from within the network for traffic
<JimBuntu> jmgb4, What forwarding was enabled? Were they basically putting your machine in the DMZ?
<jmgb4> leftyfb, Yes... I scanned from outside the network.
<jmgb4> JimBuntu Yes
<leftyfb> jmgb4: using what tool?
<leftyfb> oh, it's a DMZ.
<JimBuntu> jmgb4, that's hilarious. I presume this was a situation where you were only allowed to have a single NIC/computer connected.
<leftyfb> DMZ != NAT (not in the security sense)
<leftyfb> you basically turned off NAT
<jmgb4> I didnt touch it. Thats the way it come "out of the box"
<JimBuntu> In this case, again, the use of NAT didn't contribute anything to the security issue... it was actually being used the way it was originally intended... IP translation and nothing else.
<daftykins> most browsers give up the internal subnet via most website queries btw, so it's not a surprise
<daftykins> also hi all \o
<JimBuntu> I remember ISPs that told us we could only connect one computer to the modem... and it had to be our computer, no routing. Internet Connection Sharing (TM) became very popular for a while.
<daftykins> heh many moons ago back in Uni we were only allowed the one, too - they explicitly banned routers and WAPs
<leftyfb> jmgb4: if you had DMZ turned on by default, that completely nullifies any benfits of NAT.
<leftyfb> again, to say NAT is insecure is false .... in all cases discussed so far
<daftykins> i highly doubt that it would've been
<leftyfb> ^
<leftyfb> jmgb4: I encourage route path to knowledge though. Keep going.
<jmgb4> This is the way the modem was out of the box.
<leftyfb> er
<leftyfb> route/your
<JimBuntu> perhaps it was a previously used modem, or some major fail in mass-configuration
<daftykins> a 'modem' doesn't have such settings :>
<jmgb4> It was an all in one I should say. Not a "modem".
<leftyfb> daftykins: The ones with routers built in do ... which these days is most of the ones provided by ISP's
<jmgb4> ^
<jmgb4> If one was given to me, you cant say there arent others out there but we also got off the discussion of NAT and why I thought / think its not a very good defense but I guess I was proven wrong.
<daftykins> yes i know that leftyfb - i'm pointing out using the wrong term for the device, is all
<daftykins> in fact i'm pretty sure 'modem' in general is one of those words that's been hung onto for far too long, think they're really transceivers that we use over here where both send and receive are on the same chip/board :)
<daftykins> (but we likely use a different technology here to what you guys use to get online)
<jmgb4> daftykins, What would you rather it be called? An all in one? Router / modem combo?
<leftyfb> yep
<leftyfb> ISP provided router
<daftykins> is it cable? 'cable modem/router' would explain it well in lieu of a make and model
<jmgb4> I have no idea what make and model it was. I no longer use it.
<leftyfb> jmgb4: it was a productive discussion
<daftykins> oh so we're talking about the past as well? bit pointless
<daftykins> marginally worse than the support seeking folks who come online and say "i'm at work now, but can you tell me what to do to solve x?" :D
<leftyfb> itâs ok. It was a productive discussion.
<jmgb4> How is it pointless? daftykins, thats kind of like saying devices on the internet are upgraded as soon as a new model is released. I am trying to find that website that looks for old devices now.
<jmgb4> I cant think of the name
<JimBuntu> looks for old devices? Not exactly the same, but I like Shodan
<daftykins> jmgb4: just that you can't confirm anything or speak of the model etc, is what i mean
<daftykins> i'm sure you had some interesting chat regardless, i just think it a bit odd when folk are like "i had this thing once, it was bad"
<daftykins> anyway, nevermind
<leftyfb> you upset him :)
<leftyfb> It was ok daftykins, that was one of the good ones. They learned a thing.
<daftykins> leftyfb: this is still conversation, there's no need to act like the police in here, it's kind of annoying
<leftyfb> huh?
<daftykins> i'm just saying there's no conflict here :)
<leftyfb> You were being a bit hostile toward him. And I'm just trying to say, no need for the hostility, he learned a thing and didn't keep on about it. That's productive and exactly what discussions should be like.
<daftykins> well since we're going to keep beating a dead horse, i didn't mean to invalidate the entire conversation - i just think it's dumb bringing up a device that's no longer owned
<daftykins> i do have a tendency to be short that people see as hostility, but it's never intended as such - try to bear that in mind
<daftykins> unless it's a troll :P
<leftyfb> I can verymuch be the same ... but this one was open to learning so I try to help them along as much as I can
<BluesKaj> heh, nertworking is an arcane subject from the get go...I find it to be so..tried a an online course (coursera) and the presenter just crammed waaay too much info into each session for these old brain cells to absorb properly , and his high squeaky voice did not help matters any
<JimBuntu> but, come on, any script kiddie can get around NAT ( if by that you mean a wide-open machine in the DMZ of a router)
<leftyfb> :)
<daftykins> i still laugh thinking of the days over here when our broadband first came out - routers weren't a thing yet, so it was just these nasty USB ADSL transceivers
<daftykins> then the msblast flaw in Windows XP came out - and no joke you could be online without a firewall (as one wasn't added to XP until SP1 or SP2?) for 14 seconds before you'd get hit by it - and a forced reboot dialogue came up
<daftykins> i tested it one day for fun, to come up with that time :)
<pragmaticenigma> SP2 enabled the firewall by default
<pragmaticenigma> and blaster is still rampant on the open web
<daftykins> mmhmm, i was leaning more that way but i'm happy to purge my memory of all XP related things now
<daftykins> i highly doubt they're scanning for it as regularly as that, as at a later point i tried the same and nothing happened overnight
<daftykins> er, *as regularly as then
<pragmaticenigma> No one really is scanning for it... it's all the dummy machines that never got fixed that still spew it out
<pragmaticenigma> I still get Code RED hitting my apache server
<daftykins> hmm that name doesn't ring a bell
<pragmaticenigma> Code Red was a worm that infected IIS web servers
<pragmaticenigma> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Red_worm
<daftykins> ah, i'd almost say i feel sorry for someone using IIS - but i don't :D
<BluesKaj> my W7 to W10 upgrade a few yrs ago was a total loss for me, the cheapest W10 version is as fugly as it gets ...yuk
<BluesKaj> no more windows for this guy
<pragmaticenigma> I still have windows for a few select applications that just run better in their windows home land. (and I get tired of Wine with the circular references in symbolic link littering up my home directory)
<BluesKaj> I've managed to live without Windows for a while now..really don't miss anything windows at all
<daftykins> works for me :)
<daftykins> a lot of my clients willingly choose to be stuck with Microsoft products for no good reason, can't really help them from that
<BluesKaj> I don't hate windows, it just doesn't do anything that i need anymore
<pragmaticenigma> I just wish customizations of any OS were a lot easier than having to either install a theme pack (which often hides criticle features) or hack away at stuff in hopes of achieve the desired effect.
<pragmaticenigma> I strongly dislike the default font sizes, they're always way to big for me
<pragmaticenigma> that's all I want to change, yet my options are to hunt down a theme, build my own, or hack
<daftykins> which desktop is that with?
<pragmaticenigma> I run defaults, so right now I'm on Unity + Ubuntu 16.04
<pragmaticenigma> Even windows 10 the fonts are stupid huge... I don't personally need size 12 fonts for window titles
<daftykins> guess it depends on the display, on my laptop which is a 1920x1080 LCD... 10's default is to enable scaling, whereas i prefer 1:1 or '100%'
<daftykins> if you go too small you start seeing the subpixel rendered edges that are a bit offputting imo
<BluesKaj> daftykins, some people don't understand the concept of an "operating system". It's just a computer to them, press this, click that and that's all hey worry or think about
<pragmaticenigma> I'm not referring to scaling
<daftykins> no but i have...
<daftykins> hmm does 16.04 unity still have the keyboard shortcut underlines to the alt+space menu? 18.04 ditched those and i find it a mistake
<daftykins> not that i use it
<pragmaticenigma> that's a rather strong generalization there BluesKaj
<JimBuntu> daftykins, 16.04, yes.
<BluesKaj> I always have to increase fonts on this setup no matter which OS I use
<daftykins> JimBuntu: amazing they dropped it, what a foolish move
<daftykins> dumbing down the desktop to the mouse bandits :)
<BluesKaj> pragmaticenigma, the qualifier in my comment was "some people" :-)
<JimBuntu> daftykins, I know, I don't understand it either... things like from within Terminal, you can't ALT+F to bring up the file menu/etc. I like those underscore-shortcuts, especially if I have to do the same few things to a bunch of files/etc.
<daftykins> reminds me, i was gonna snag an 18.04 xu to see if it's still there, don't see why it wouldn't be
<pragmaticenigma> BluesKaj: Exactly
<pragmaticenigma> I think the loss of the underlines is a design decision in Gnome-Shell than Ubuntu
<daftykins> yep there they are, still in xu :>
<pragmaticenigma> Is Xubuntu any easier to customize now? I remember my struggle was getting apps added to the app drawer
<daftykins> i'm not the right person to ask, i don't use desktop
<daftykins> last i tried it (on a laptop) i fell over laughing at desktop Linux in general for the fact that if i had firefox playing a youtube video fullscreen on battery, it STILL blanked the screen in the middle of said video
<daftykins> talk about foolish defaults
<pragmaticenigma> I don't think it still does that... but then again, might be a good thing the webbrowser can't disable system functions?
<daftykins> that was probably 14.04 yeah, so no idea of the current state - and whilst i can see what you're saying, i don't think it's a very practical concern
<pragmaticenigma> I do most my media watching via LibreElec, Nexus Player, or Roku
<pragmaticenigma> no powersaving shinanigans there
<daftykins> well Kodi does have a screensaver that dims by default :) so i might marginally challenge that
<daftykins> but yeah it's not gonna turn off the display mid video xD
<pragmaticenigma> Kodi is smart enough to do that only when not active playback of video. Unless you pause said video, it does dim
<pragmaticenigma> Though I don't know if Kodi talks to a desktop to prevent it's screensaver/power saving functions
<daftykins> you really need to dial back on the explanations :) i've used it since the original xbox days
<pragmaticenigma> I wish I were able to telepathically see what's in your head, but I can't (and probably don't want to) so I have no idea your experience with the application or it's history
<daftykins> i get the sarcasm :) but you don't see how annoying it is to keep explaining stuff like it's everyone elses first day? :)
<daftykins> i think a lot of 'normal' users are likely to play videos in youtube in the browser, as originally mentioned anyway
 * pragmaticenigma changes room the #ubuntu-explainations
<daftykins> maybe minus the typo
<pragmaticenigma> nah...
<daftykins> pragmaticenigma: something the matter today? you seem to be trying awfully hard to disagree with everyone on everything!
<pragmaticenigma> I'm really worried about the PGP vulnerability :-)
<pragmaticenigma> https://efail.de/
<daftykins> from what i skim-read it sounded like it's fine if you don't send and receive in HTML
<daftykins> which i always thought was something most tech folk did who didn't want all kinds of rubbish enabled
<BluesKaj> some are looking for a debate ...seen it many times ...I don't bother wasting my energy when I know I'm right :-)
<pragmaticenigma> oh? haven't gotten that far in the article... only gleaned as much to see that plugins that autodecrypt were the primary target
<SlidingHorn> It's SO funny how hard this guy was trying to make this his 15 minutes of fame
<daftykins> what a time to be alive, everything folks use to be safe in open source land seems to have been blown open this year so far
<SlidingHorn> ??  It's not a GPG vulnerability.
<pragmaticenigma> This one looks pretty benign... and yeah... mislabeled... it's the tool kits, not the actual algorithm
<JimBuntu> SlidingHorn, not to my understaning, it's a failure of mail programs/etc in (pre)processing the HTML in the emails.
<pragmaticenigma> it also seems to be really elaborate
<SlidingHorn> and this guy has been prepping and hyping it to make it his "big moment"
<SlidingHorn> he's still patting himself on the back on Twitter and trying to pass it off as something it's not
<JimBuntu> The community will likely shun him, he didn't even send the details to GPG/etc first.
<SlidingHorn> they should (in my opinion)
<daftykins> i heard some German rag leaked it early
<EriC^^> a new vulnerability?
<daftykins> kinda
<EriC^^> what are they calling it?
<daftykins> no fancy name yet afaik xD
<EriC^^> the names are always fun :D
<SlidingHorn> trying to essentially blindside GPG for fame...went through the trouble of creating a website, hashtag, and logo though... :/
<SlidingHorn> "eFail"
<JimBuntu> EriC^^, This just in, mail clients and tools using GPG (some of them anyway) will obey the user and (pre)process HTML
<daftykins> oh yeah, there was i just have a sieve-like memory :>
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<daftykins> JimBuntu: so even still not everything gets a shortcut key assignment - http://i.imgur.com/BuJmg9f.png
<JimBuntu> daftykins, That one might be due to the developers. When I was making GUIs, I had to assign the latters manually.
<JimBuntu> s/latters/letters
<BluesKaj> I see those "root action" services in the file manager/dolphin no longer work or at least they don't appear in the context menu when righjt clicking in dirs owned by root
<BluesKaj> it was a handy feature that i started using when kdesudo was no longer working
<daftykins> root action? as in stuff to do as root? maybe due to the death of gksudo? (at least i think i heard that)
<BluesKaj> daftykins,  yup
<BluesKaj> well, stuff to do for an hr or 2 ...bbl
<daftykins> think i tend to just go straight to a terminal :)
<daftykins> oh this might amuse someone besides myself, i offered to fix up the PCs of a friends girlfriends kids... but she mentioned that they don't get much use out of them, instead preferring to use the various Apple products...
<daftykins> i can just imagine what a conversation might go like there, "hey kid, why don't you run x?" - "huh? is that on the app store? how much does it cost?" - "no, it's free!"
<daftykins> generations hamstrung by the decision to use walled garden ecosystem devices that don't foster huge possibility
<daftykins> madness! :)
<daftykins> at least i subscribe to the thinking that use of such devices stops them exploring and learning as much as they could, does anyone else feel the same way?
<JimBuntu> Yeah, somewhat. On the tablets, my kids don't have access to a browser or YouTube/etc... they do have a laptop with no restrictions on it (Ubuntu), but they have to use it in the living room.
<daftykins> interesting, what's blocking the browser on the tablet?
<daftykins> +s
<JimBuntu> They get to see both worlds play out. I think that between the drastic improvements with CPU/etc of mobile devices, and the fact they are so mobile... has led to people going to them first.
<JimBuntu> daftykins, We use Amazon KidTime
<JimBuntu> Basically, we pick what apps work under their profile and can do all kinds of time-based controls/etc.
<JimBuntu> At 5 years old, one of them had found a way to break out, but it seems to have been patched as they can't do it any more.
<daftykins> JimBuntu: ah we got one of those amazon Kindle Fire tablets for a clients son, i saw all the rubbish about setting up a childrens account, then the ability to choose content they could run but it looked like too much work, so they just use it under the mums account
<daftykins> then saw that when they go on holiday to Spain, amazon content mostly doesn't work down there - and it kept wanting to be online to authorise the DRM - so it was nigh-on useless
<JimBuntu> daftykins, it's really not that bad. There are oddities we have encountered where a kids program basically wasn't compatible if you had started the program from the adult account first, that's about it. What's really nice is that it's all auto-backed up too... so, when we had to replace one of their devices, all we had to do was sign in, then sign them in and it downloaded everything.
<JimBuntu> yeah, Amazon services can be tricky outside the country of origin. For example, eBooks from you area wont work when you try to use them in the U.S.A. and vice-versa. I know someone who has a U.S. registered Kindle exactly for this reason.
<daftykins> hmm maybe it has grown up since i last saw it, their son is about 4.5 now so i'm not sure how much time he gets with the thing
<daftykins> mmm i know all that fun all too well, typically this island is geoIP detected as being 'other' and not applicable for most online services
<daftykins> Google and Microsoft even refuse to sell devices to us typically :)
<JimBuntu> wow, that's ridiculous, imho
<daftykins> it's because we don't have tax on goods and they won't do the paperwork to sell to us, so they just blanket refuse instead
<JimBuntu> Still seems silly to me, but... if they only care about the bottom line... that's on them.
<daftykins> hrmm i should be working on my 18.04 VPS with digitalocean to move off the old 14.04 one
<pragmaticenigma> why not 16.04 :-P
<daftykins> 'cause it's already old
<daftykins> those folks are great, i mentioned the tax status we have and they developed a new feature to subtract it so the lowest tier at $5/mo is about $4.xx/mo for me i think o0
<pragmaticenigma> island of misfit toys?
<daftykins> given the fact i often get brought computers that aren't working right, that may be quite fitting :D
<pragmaticenigma> hehe
<daftykins> but yeah if i'm gonna take the time to move all my servers to a newer release, i would rather make the bigger step to current - even if 18.04 sounds many alarm bells for me
<pragmaticenigma> true that
<pragmaticenigma> running server edition should be more stable than the desktops... no?
<daftykins> EriC^^: did you get on top of your data usage problem?
<daftykins> pragmaticenigma: you'd hope, i cringed when i saw the default image they have for 18.04 still installed 3GB though...
<daftykins> and removing some stuff somehow made it increase o0
<pragmaticenigma> what about the minimal install?
<daftykins> that's not how VPSs work, you don't install the OS yourself
<pragmaticenigma> oh
<daftykins> they have sort of one click templates that get spun up once you click through the choices, then you get sent login credentials
<daftykins> or you import an SSH key to use, yada yada
<pragmaticenigma> cool... I learned something new :-)
<daftykins> if you ever have need of running services online for folks, they're really neat - paying that little to keep a simple little machine going works out really nicely, i host 3 or so websites these days along with an OpenVPN endpoint so i can tunnel to safety if i'm out on some nasty public connection
<daftykins> even for the bottom tier which i use - https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/
<EriC^^> daftykins: yeah, it turned out to be windows updating, making d: very small solved it
<daftykins> heh or broke it intentionally ;D i suppose that beats constantly updating to the new builds manually though
<EriC^^> yeah those pc's are what i'd like to sit and work on, i just want them running and barely ever have to fix anything
<EriC^^> especially now in summer, it's a sona in that room
<EriC^^> *aren't what i'd
<daftykins> hehe i'll bet
<daftykins> kinda surprised Windows is the choice for the mining stuff, seems like the worst OS choice for uptime
<EriC^^> i'm loving it for the mining tbh, drivers come out immediately and there's a lot of support for hardware stuff
<EriC^^> i also loved the tasksch thing it's pretty much window's cron
<EriC^^> i'm using it to run a sync command every 1 minute to avoid fs failures on the constant powercuts we have :D it's held pretty steady
<EriC^^> also all the clocking software and bios modding stuff is in windows
<daftykins> that's true, though i wouldn't touch any of that :>
<daftykins> spotted them in your pics ^_^
<daftykins> i doubt newer driver releases really change mining speeds much though?
<EriC^^> sometimes they do a little, but i've had to use a new 'block chain driver' because the 'dag' became larger and that caused the miners to drop like 9mh/s each
<daftykins> ah har
<EriC^^> amd actually released a blockchain specific driver that optimizes mining, it was released beta and they were like this is it, there wont be any official release later
<EriC^^> they are kinda supporting the miners i guess, it's a good profit for them $$ %%
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> hey krytarik
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<krytarik> Howdy.
<daftykins> \o
<pragmaticenigma> alo
<lotuspsychje> !info chromium-browser bionic
<ubot5> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium web browser, open-source version of Chrome. In component universe, is optional. Version 66.0.3359.139-0ubuntu0.18.04.3 (bionic), package size 52374 kB, installed size 186497 kB
<lotuspsychje> seems im up to date
<pragmaticenigma> oh boy... here we go in main chat
<SlidingHorn> upcoming troll in main
<leftyfb> saw that coming
 * daftykins raises an eyebrow
<SlidingHorn> same
<pragmaticenigma> do we tell them and encourage more yammering... or blindly let them stay as to not draw more attention
<leftyfb> they'll bring it upon themselves
<leftyfb> just wait
<lotuspsychje> im not an ignore fan myself
<lotuspsychje> thats like sticking head in the sand :p
<daftykins> i didn't used to be, but damn is it good (:
<leftyfb> neither am I, but the ops have strict requirements before any action is taken, if ever
<SlidingHorn> I assume an op will have them change the nick or (hopefully) see that this is a troll waiting to happen & kick
<lotuspsychje> freenode policy url is dead on !guidelines
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<SlidingHorn> they still haven't kicked that guy?
<pragmaticenigma> That's the ubuntu guidelines lotuspsychje ... freenode are on their site
<pragmaticenigma> https://freenode.net/policies
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: i know, but there is a section mentioning freenode policy on tab language & subject
<pragmaticenigma> sometimes the best course of action isn't to give anymore attention than what is already been given. that's what they want, and they'll keep doing it so long as it keep sworking
<pragmaticenigma> I did ask ops about the /remove instead of /kick... I was satisfied with their answer, though I don't feel it's very effective
<pragmaticenigma> I think they know what they're doing, and best let them figure it out
<leftyfb> heh
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: didnt you apply for ops?
<lotuspsychje> i hear they need some
<leftyfb> yep
<leftyfb> I assume they won't take me though. I actually plan to do things about trolls. Looks like that goes against their unwritten policies :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> nooo, that's just doing 'anything'
<daftykins> :)
<SlidingHorn> wish there was a way to ignore parts unless they're kicks
<SlidingHorn> lol
<daftykins> they're still useful if you're giving advice and the person leaves, you know how patient most helpees are :)
<pragmaticenigma> haha... looks like op just missed the window... ping timeout
<pragmaticenigma> always amazes me how someone can cuss so much
<lotuspsychje> like in the movies pragmaticenigma :p
 * SlidingHorn curses like a sailor, but I keep it cool in chat
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pragmaticenigma> I rarely cuss, so when I do, people know I'm very disturbed/upset/angry/in pain about something
<SlidingHorn> I rarely finish a sentence *without* cussing :P
<lotuspsychje> tv time here guys
<lotuspsychje> cya tomorrows
<daftykins> o/
<lotuspsychje> gonna watch some cursing lol
<lotuspsychje> cheers
<JimBuntu> lotuspsychje, have fun
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/DVD7DRCqN2/
<leftyfb> it's the same troll
<leftyfb> el: ^
<leftyfb> he's not actually looking for help
<pragmaticenigma> send a note to the ops with that information
<el> apparently humoring them rather than confronting them gets them to go away
<leftyfb> el: they play the long game
<leftyfb> they are only looking for fill the chat with their offensive nicks and pointless banter
<leftyfb> for/to
<leftyfb> they'll be back
<el> they'll be back even if i ban that vpn node too. they just have to refresh the app
<leftyfb> it's an ADSL, I doubt it's a VPN endpoint
<el> vpngate is all consumer internet
<leftyfb> where you do see vpngate?
<el> a lot
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/D8VwpSNTXz/
<leftyfb> the ip is coming from an ADSL account with "superonline.net" / Tellcom Ankara ADSL Pool
<leftyfb> I see nothing about a VPN
<el> it's not going to be listing "vpngate" in their whois
<leftyfb> how do you know it's vpngate?
<leftyfb> Not that I doubt you, I'm genuinely curious to know if there's some identifying tool I should be using going forward that I'm not aware of
<el> i cannot know with any guarantee, but vpngate.net is commonly used by these kinds of trolls and frequently doesn't list all their current in use addresses
<leftyfb> he's back
<leftyfb> different ip
<leftyfb> oh wait, nevermind
<leftyfb> flipping windows too quickly :)
<leftyfb> ok, so you're making an assumption on the ip origin
<el> and the behaviour
<el> an educated assumption.
<el> which also tells me he'll be back no matter what i do with bans and it's better to make him bored of us
<leftyfb> I see the past joins that backs up your assumptions
<pragmaticenigma> and luck talking with the ops leftyfb
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-05-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<SlidingHorn> mornin lotuspsychje  :)
<lotuspsychje> hey SlidingHorn how are you
<SlidingHorn> not too bad, just got tipped off to a bunch of sites with free ebooks :)
<lotuspsychje> ah cool
<lotuspsychje> from reading to free music, do you know jamendo?
<SlidingHorn> rings a bell
<lotuspsychje> pretty nice copyrighted free music
<SlidingHorn> oh yeah that's why I remembered it...
<SlidingHorn> there's also a nice YouTube channel with over 700 pieces of free music
<SlidingHorn> Audio Library
<lotuspsychje> neat
<EriC^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^
<lotuspsychje> how are you mate
<EriC^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^> great you?
<lotuspsychje> fine, bit tired from amsterdam weekend :p
<EriC^> nice :D
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<EriC^> morning ducasse , how's it going?
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje, EriC^ - fine here thanks, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine here ducasse on the coffee :p
<EriC^> great thanks
<ducasse> any plans for the day, guys?
<lotuspsychje> breakfast now and working day here :p
<lotuspsychje> you got plans ducasse ?
<ducasse> not until tonight, invited to a friend's house for dinner
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey EriC^
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<EriC^^> great thanks yourself?
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<jink> 'sup, n00bs?
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
<ducasse> enjoy, lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> https://www.deviantart.com/art/Lubuntu-18-04-turned-into-Windows-95-744039600
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> it does bring back weird memorys
<ducasse> that was a long time ago
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> http://www.iflscience.com/technology/smart-city-china-controlled-artificial-intelligence/
<lotuspsychje> saw a docu on this recently, its crazy
<lotuspsychje> https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/china-has-highest-number-of-smart-city-pilot-projects-report/articleshow/62998738.cms
<lotuspsychje> 500 smart city projects comming up
<ducasse> maybe they can also do something about human rights and leave tibet alone...
<ducasse> :P
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> guiverc: you skared him away :p
<guiverc> not the first time either :(
<JimBuntu> good job guiverc , I was about to ask them a question... no TAB auto-complete... :-(
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - all well today?
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, yeah, ok here. How about you?
<ducasse> all good, thanks. just about to make lunch.
<BluesKaj> right
<BluesKaj> another idiot in #ubuntu with a stupid sexually suggestive nick,  funny or not, i think that shouldn't be allowed , call it censorship if you want, but in this I think it applies
<BluesKaj> oops not  #ubuntu , ##linux
<JimBuntu> I, I saw that. It's not even suggestive, it's beyond that
<BluesKaj> thank goodness they k-lined him
<BluesKaj> or her , who knows
<JimBuntu> I have all the extra notifications turned off, didn't see that they did... whoever will no doubt be back
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu
<JimBuntu> 'Morning to you too BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> yeah, I have hide nick joins/parts except watched nicks and those active within the last 24hrs...helps keep the page clean and readable
<JimBuntu> I started thinking about looking for a more scriptable IRC client the other day. There *should* be one that let's me really drill down with filters.
<JimBuntu> I started up my bouncer about a week ago, but haven't gotten around to really messing with it yet
<BluesKaj> Konversation has always been my favourite , tried lots of others including hexchat, quassel and the shells like irssi and weechat etc, but I always return to good ol' Konversation.
<BluesKaj> irssi is handy when the desktop won't load due to issues of some kind
<JimBuntu> I'm going to check out Konversation. I normally use X-Chat, but have a few others installed.
<JimBuntu> I may look into Python IRC libraries, as it shouldn't be hard to interact with IRC... then I can have the GUI display whatever I want.
<BluesKaj> think Konversation comes with a lot of KDE "baggage" , read kde dependencies
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: about 9.9.9.10, you say it is "not recommended for full time use". can you rewfer to some official statement on this?
<pragmaticenigma> Quad 9 goal is to provide secure, private, highly available DNS services via the 9.9.9.9 address. 9.9.9.10 is their unsecured address which is only a DNS resolver, it does not block malicious sites, offer dnssec, or any of the other features of Quad 9
<pragmaticenigma> https://www.quad9.net/faq/
<pragmaticenigma> Unsecured IP: 9.9.9.10 Provides: No security blocklist, DNSSEC, sends EDNS Client-Subnet. If your DNS software requires a Secondary IP address, please use the unsecured secondary address of 149.112.112.10
<pragmaticenigma> Secure IP: 9.9.9.9 Provides: Security blocklist, DNSSEC, No EDNS Client-Subnet sent. If your DNS software requires a Secondary IP address, please use the secure secondary address of 149.112.112.112
<pragmaticenigma> The recommend using the Unsecured IP for troubleshooting their Secured IP services for false positives
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: personally i prefer the raw beast. i don't like to promote the use of a filter bubbles by default.
<tomreyn> i do see how using 9.9.9.9 rather than 9.9.9.10 can be useful for others, but i still think they should be made aware of these filters before they are pointed to the filtered variant.
<pragmaticenigma> I agree... If it were me, I'd suggest google dns by default then
<tomreyn> well not i, since i think privacy matters, too
<tomreyn> and that google is way too large
<JimBuntu> aw, no fair ;-)
<pragmaticenigma> opendns?
<JimBuntu> being knows as |
<pragmaticenigma> oh, it was going to be shortlived... I got a stern message from nickserv
<pragmaticenigma> can anyone tell me how to verify that someone is running true ubuntu and not some unspoorted dirivative
<pragmaticenigma> I think we're being phished by codercat
<BluesKaj> cloudflare 1.1.1.1 seems to be fastest to resolve DNS globally, no restrictions on malicious sites tho, https://medium.com/@nykolas.z/dns-resolvers-performance-compared-cloudflare-x-google-x-quad9-x-opendns-149e803734e5
<pragmaticenigma> BluesKaj: cloudflare is also doing some filtering, it's minimal though. Most of these global DNS providers are filtering to some degree. Some in response to attacks, some just to reduce the propagation of malicious software
<BluesKaj> well. tha's probly a good thing, judicious surfing is a "matter of taste" and what the resolvers definition is of family friendly sites etc
<pragmaticenigma> I've been using OpenDNS for many years now, with their utitilty to offer enhanced filtering for my network, and my parents. Since making that decision, I get a lot less frantic phones calls when Mom's computer goes AWOL, rarely see malware on their computers. In both locations I have some categories blocked (my network blocks parked domains; theirs, adult themed sites because of grandkids visiting)
<pragmaticenigma> I don't like filtering my parents internet, I feel bad for doing it. They are aware of the filters though and agree to keep them. Only once and a while do I get a question about why a site mysteriously stopped working, and I just whitelist it in their profile
<JimBuntu> pragmaticenigma, don't trust `lsb_release -a` ?
<pragmaticenigma> I don't know what part of it to request from a user to make sure I get the actual flavor
<BluesKaj> I've been the only user on my network except for my adult kids and my grown grandchildren (I'm old), so I'm lucky not to concern myself about "adult sites" . I never use them anyway.
<pragmaticenigma> they kept talking about libuntu (some esoteric derived copy of ubuntu) but I wanted to make sure it was a typo before telling them they couldn't be helped
<pragmaticenigma> The grandkids don't go looking for it... The oldest goes in search of poetry and artwork and ends up in some sketchy parts of the web, were an advert has an adult ad which gets their curiosity
<pragmaticenigma> the grandkids haven't learned that anything past the first page of google results is best not looked at
<BluesKaj> unfortunately I'm a widower now and my wife was intelligent and knowledgeable enough to be careful on W7 when surfing the 'net
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<pragmaticenigma> for us it's a delacate topic for my sibling to start talking to their kids about these topics... We haven't figured out a tactful approach to broach the subject
<pragmaticenigma> hello pauljw
<pauljw> hi pragmaticenigma
<tomreyn> re "true ubuntu", "lsb_release -ds", but this can be easily falsified, and what really tells you what they have is actually apt-cache policy (if run after "sudo apt update")
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: wouldn't that just tell me what version by friendly name like trusty, xienal, bionic ??
<pragmaticenigma> I guess the _CODENAME value
<pragmaticenigma> truely anything can be falsified... And if you know how to ask in the first place, no one would be the wiser anyways
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: there's also /var/log/installer/lsb-release
<tomreyn> which tells you what the lsb_release for the installer was
<tomreyn> or /var/log/installer/media-info rather
<tomreyn> (that's what apport uses)
<pragmaticenigma> crap.. they made themselves sound so knowledgable... and then don't know how to boot with nomodeset
<pragmaticenigma> :-(
<pragmaticenigma> I don't remember how to do it
<daftykins> used to be holding shift at boot time to stall GRUB, buuuut that was a long time ago :>
<pragmaticenigma> I don't know what 18.04 boot even looks like
<JimBuntu> hold shift during boot, edit the kernel settings, place nomodeset after the root's drive declaration
<daftykins> so far in my tests it's looked very blank :)
<JimBuntu> Oh, I also don't know if it's diff in 18.04
<pragmaticenigma> blind leading blind
<pragmaticenigma> haha
<pragmaticenigma> google results for me talk about modifying the grub config file... which is hard to do when you can't get into ubuntu
<leftyfb> live cd
<daftykins> that's a mistake, you don't set it permanently when you don't know if it's going to help yet
<pragmaticenigma> right
<daftykins> goodness me though, 2018 and still nomodeset hassles? YOLD!
<JimBuntu> you can edit the kernel config from grub though, can't get into the grub menu?
<JimBuntu> ir did they take that away with 18.04
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins, some users are having them
<pragmaticenigma> turns out that the issue is nvidia drivers not liking wayland... no surprise there
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> real surprise is why people are so impatient to use the damn thing
<pragmaticenigma> add to that everyone saying go to tty1... which is no more in 18.04
<daftykins> heh i'm embarassed to admit i was pressing ctrl+alt+F1 a few times before i realised xD
<JimBuntu> tty1 is on CTRL+ALT+F7 now, isn't it?
<pragmaticenigma> or as it should be labeled tty7
<daftykins> on the 18.04 test install i have, i didn't appear to have a 1 - only 2 through 6
<daftykins> then X was on 1
<daftykins> (i suppose)
<JimBuntu> is it though? I didn't realise the key-mapping needed to be tied to the tty, explicitly, would make sense though
<JimBuntu> interesting, a lot of changes were slapped into 18.04... I wonder how much will be reverted in the point release
<daftykins> xD
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<JimBuntu> "oops, sorry peeps, we didn't mean to mess with tty1 and display manager output"
<daftykins> o/
<JimBuntu> hiya lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey JimBuntu daftykins
<lotuspsychje> you guys had a nice day?
<pragmaticenigma> JimBuntu: None, moving X to virt 1 is standard across all other distros... Ubuntu is late to the party
<pragmaticenigma> CentOS, RedHat have been doing it since 6.x release which is 8 years old
<JimBuntu> I'm having a nice day, T-4h
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: Wayland support for Nvidia isn't stable enough for mainstream use yet. Things might be promissing , but I wouldn't be recommending it anytime soon
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: that doesnt mean a system cant tryout wayland properly right?
<pragmaticenigma> let's put it this way... no
<pragmaticenigma> haha
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: apt-cache search wayland gives nvidia-driver-390
<pragmaticenigma> If you have a machine to play with , sure have at it... most of the people in channel are trying to get their main daily driver rigs up and running.
<lotuspsychje> yeah agree on that
<lotuspsychje> perhaps on .1 ?
<pragmaticenigma> not even then... I will not move to wayland until all the things I can do with X are carried over.
<pragmaticenigma> Wayland largest defect is it does not support user privelage escalation. Meaning you cannot run GUI apps under a substitute user
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats bad indeed
<lotuspsychje> if that aint fixxed, no point yet to make the switch
<pragmaticenigma> exactly... I like many of the coming features of wayland, but they are missing some major legacy features
<lotuspsychje> hey krytarik
<krytarik> Hellooo.
<daftykins> o/
<pragmaticenigma> oh no... krytarik is here... everyone act cool :-P
<krytarik> :D
<BluesKaj> i don't need to act cool...I am :-)
<pragmaticenigma> turn up the heat then BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> temperature has nothing to do with it
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> heya BluesKaj all well on your side of the world?
<BluesKaj> yeah, everything seems normal...chaos as usual in the US, but here it's a nice day, but we still have a silly gov't  :-)
<BluesKaj> going to try one of those ethernet over house wiring adapters
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: devolo style?
<BluesKaj> tp-link
<lotuspsychje> cool
<BluesKaj> a friend uses one in his garage /studio due to poor wifi reception from his regular router
<lotuspsychje> i got devolo and its pretty neat
<lotuspsychje> i use it when updating customer boxes over eth
 * BluesKaj nods
<BluesKaj> looks good as well
<BluesKaj> don't have poor wifi, but moved a pc to my den that needs ethernet (no wifi nic) so that seems like an easy solution
<daftykins> there are plenty of TP-Link ones
<lotuspsychje> hmm bionic removed aptoncd?
<lotuspsychje> !info aptoncd xenial
<ubot5> aptoncd (source: aptoncd): Installation disc creator for packages downloaded via APT. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1.98+bzr117-1.4 (xenial), package size 213 kB, installed size 1561 kB
<kostkon> !info aptoncd bionic
<ubot5> Package aptoncd does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om SlidingHorn
<SlidingHorn> hey how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> great
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. Good to read ya - still here .. what's the session like ?
<lotuspsychje> up and off irc Bashing-om so idle/support for me
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell
<ubot5> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.28.1-0ubuntu2 (bionic), package size 669 kB, installed size 7390 kB
<lotuspsychje> thats some nice simultaneous idling :p
<lotuspsychje> tv time guys
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1
<SlidingHorn> trolling hour has arrived, apparently
<oerheks> *hips*
<oerheks> maybe update, baby!
<oerheks> :-D
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-05-16
<SlidingHorn> inb4 Rixter comes back in an hour complaining that Opera isn't installed after reboot
<oerheks> wait, it does not stick ...
<oerheks> SlidingHorn, we just blame nacc
<nacc> :)
<SlidingHorn> simonizer is one of the contributors in a linux users' discord server - can't remember which one
<leftyfb> SPM?
<leftyfb> https://github.com/simoniz0r/spm
<leftyfb> oh, linux users
<SlidingHorn> same guy though
<leftyfb> yep
<SlidingHorn> I actually left that discord a couple days ago by accident and couldn't find a link to get back :/
<leftyfb> I tried discord, too millennial for me :)
<SlidingHorn> I needed a discord server for my Twitch stream
<oerheks> i see lots of bugreports about certificates..
<daftykins> isn't that only once you get popular :>
<SlidingHorn> well, define "popular"  lol - got to being an affiliat
<daftykins> hrmm dunno, 100 viewers regularly?
<SlidingHorn> that's pretty rare, honestly
 * oerheks is populair by birth
<daftykins> i know some minor folk with maybe 40+ regularly
<SlidingHorn> I haven't been able to stream at all lately so my server's dropped in population quite a bit...was regularly around 50 folks online
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning all
<SlidingHorn> morning EriC^^
<lordievader> Good morning
<daftykins> \o
<lordievader> Hey daftykins
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<daftykins> not too bad thanks :D all well with yourself?
<SlidingHorn> interesting thing re: the Skype snap situation in main - In my software center (using 18.04 Studio) the version he ended up installing is what's available.  On the snapcraft.io website, the 8.20... version he originally installed is what's listed.
<daftykins> which is newer? i can't follow along :>
<SlidingHorn> the one in my software center is 8.22....
<lordievader> Doing good here ð
<daftykins> i'm currently still amused by having taken a pair of scissors to my previously long hair, just earlier
<lordievader> Sometimes it is good to cut it short.
<ducasse> good morning
<daftykins> \o
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> hi daftykins, lordievader - all well here, thanks. you too, i hope?
<SlidingHorn> mornin ducasse
<ducasse> i shaved my hair off yesterday, daftykins - ready for summer :)
<daftykins> o rly
<ducasse> hi SlidingHorn - all well?
<daftykins> how much did you have?
<daftykins> yip yip all well here, debating what to do for breakfast
<SlidingHorn> so far, so good
<lordievader> ducasse: Yes, doing good :)
<ducasse> daftykins: a few cm, i shave it regularly
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> fine here received an email about gpdr from my banker lordievader
<lotuspsychje> new privacy law
<lordievader> Yeah, you almost get a daily gpdr email these days.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: you understand whats it about in short?
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje
<ducasse> how are you?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lordievader> In short: more control to the user about his data. Sending out privacy data needs to have a valid cause.
<lotuspsychje> i see
<lordievader> Oh, and lots of stuff is now personal data. If you are able to relate a piece of data back to a person, it is personal data.
<lotuspsychje> jesus
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: so i have a blogger with customers database for newsletter, how would this influence me?
<lordievader> As a company you need to document what you are storing and why you are storing it.
<lordievader> If you can defend why you store something (it is necesary to save an email address for a newsletter, for example) it is okay.
<lotuspsychje> if not= big fines
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: so the backdoor out of this, hiding your customers data from online?
<lordievader> Don't think that will happen very soon. This new law has been in effect for quite some time... just now they are starting to actually enforce the rules.
<lordievader> Hiding? The whole point of gpdr is to make this sort of thing more transparent.
<lotuspsychje> right
<daftykins> nah GDPR comes into force in a few days
<lordievader> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Timeline
<lotuspsychje> yeah saw the wiki lordievader but seems real complicated
<daftykins> ah i should've qualified that with my home being outside of the EU so choosing to do it later, but at the same time as England
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: tnx for the explain
<daftykins> pretty horrifying it took 6 years xD
<lotuspsychje> i dont like anything european
<lordievader> No problem. However, do be sure to read the more official documents if you need a real answer. This might be  half my own interpretation ðm
<lotuspsychje> this always fits in a big brother plan
<EriC^> heh
<lotuspsychje> they got us first with the euro currency
<daftykins> â¬_â¬
<lotuspsychje> everything 4 times more expensive
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<SlidingHorn> mornin BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning SlidingHorn
<BluesKaj> was busy doing some banking for a few mins
<SlidingHorn> no worries
<JimBuntu> morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> up early as usual
<BluesKaj> if I sleep past 6AM it's a bonus :-)
<JimBuntu> I woke up at 4, I normally get up by 5 so I didn't see any point in going back to sleep.
<BluesKaj> yup
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, what do you mean by the  <TAB> in that line?
<JimBuntu> press the TAB key
<JimBuntu> That's why I added the next line with what it would look like, just in-case.
<BluesKaj> ok thanks
<BluesKaj> lordievader, funny how some users don't think of a reboot ...if it was windows they probly would since they're so used to having to do so
<lordievader> Usually  a reboot ain't necesary in Linux. That said, some computers are strange with their usb ports. Nothing connected at boot means they won't use it or something.... No idea what they are thinking.
<leftyfb> lordievader: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/BbRw5ty5ft/
<lordievader> leftyfb: Luckily I don't often see those kind of machines ð
<SlidingHorn> pragmaticenigma: really? (about the clock thing)  I found an answer on StackExchange (it *was* for Fedora though..but under gnome)
<pragmaticenigma> SlidingHorn: I've seen that same support article, last person I recommended it to, it had no effect on their install.
<SlidingHorn> pragmaticenigma: guess it worked for them :/
<pragmaticenigma> yep... weird
<pragmaticenigma> I'll update my notes :-)
<leftyfb> kiriuha has been joining and posting garbage for a while now
<leftyfb> since the beginning of the month
<leftyfb> also, what's this client? https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/8bXXpyCRMx/
<pragmaticenigma> what client leftyfb ... I see what appears to be a list of handles.. not user agents
<leftyfb> look at the idents and a good portion of the nick names
<leftyfb> ~u0_XXX
<pragmaticenigma> A reason that the #ubuntu channel should really start requiring nick registration is what I think it means
<leftyfb> actually, ~u0_aXXX
<pragmaticenigma> possibly their all masked?
<pragmaticenigma> *they're
<leftyfb> that would cut down on the garbage, but it would also exclude a lot people legitimately looking for help
<leftyfb> if they're masked, they're all masked the same way, I'm assuming the same client
<pragmaticenigma> I guess I don't know enough about IRC to make an educated guess. If that's from the main room... I would assume one of the freenode servers is doing something odd
<leftyfb> nope
<leftyfb> Freenode doesn't do tha
<leftyfb> that*
<pragmaticenigma> magic and voodoo then
<leftyfb> this is the only thing anyone with the nick u0_a* has ever said https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/DTQfxM7sSD/
<leftyfb> it's all garbage
<pragmaticenigma> what channel are you in that you see that?
<pragmaticenigma> i don't see any of those handles
<leftyfb> it's all #ubuntu
<leftyfb> look at the timestamps
<leftyfb> they're all sinch the beginning of the year
<leftyfb> since*
<pragmaticenigma> ah... starting to piece things together... I'm scanning the current list up and down and not seeing any of those
<pragmaticenigma> now it makes sense when I have a date to associate with the capture
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/QzCzNBHN83/
<leftyfb> that's every nick that has had u0_a in it's nick/ident and everything they've ever said
<leftyfb> looks like they might all be from Russia
<leftyfb> ok, maybe not just Russia
<leftyfb> but certainly mostly have issues with English
<SlidingHorn> leftyfb: there's another one... :/
<leftyfb> :)
<JimBuntu> great, now they are learning new commands. I was tempted to !ru > them
<leftyfb> sorry
<SlidingHorn> they're freakin evolving  D:
<JimBuntu> pretty slowly though.
<SlidingHorn> I mean...they're bots right?  What's their purpose?
<leftyfb> they're not bots
<SlidingHorn> hm...I don't see the "fun" in just posting random gibberish in a chat several times a day
<JimBuntu> You are SOOOO boring SlidingHorn, such a buzzkill, lol
<JimBuntu> I don't get it either, some people actually have fun causing trouble. I guess that it makes them feel powerful or important or something
<SlidingHorn> well, I mean...I get trolling, just not that brand, I guess...
<leftyfb> it's just dumb kids with nothing better to do
<SlidingHorn> oh wow...did I miss the flood?  Drone got that one on its own
<BluesKaj> we had a power interruption so I missed all the fun :/
<BluesKaj> the next door neighbour's overgrown cedar hedge grew inti the electrical power distribution box and shorted out the lines connected to it ...think she'll be receiving a hefty bill from the local utility :-)
 * SlidingHorn is starting to think IntelCore is bugzie's kin
<leftyfb> SlidingHorn: my eye twitched for a moment as well. We'll see
<leftyfb> SlidingHorn: I don't think so .. IntelCore has been around for over a year
<leftyfb> same ip since January
<SlidingHorn> how do you get that so easily?
<leftyfb> funny, I count 204 questions from IntelCore since exactly 1 year and 2 days ago
 * tomreyn just learnt that there is no mirroring infrsatructure for cdimage.ubuntu.com. unfortunately that's where the 'proper' server images are hosted. so better have a local copy in case this (canonical CDN?) goes down.
<SlidingHorn> just making sure I don't give the wrong advice here - had the guy nomodeset, install nvidia drivers, and when he rebooted, it still went to black screen & nouveau still loaded.  At this point do I have him blacklist noveau in the grub config?
<SlidingHorn> ah Bashing-om to the rescue, thanks :)
<Bashing-om> SlidingHorn: Ahw ,, just a tad bit of experience with nvidia drivers :P
<SlidingHorn> sorry...inxi is my new favorite tool :P
<leftyfb> I keep forgetting it's name :)
<Bashing-om> SlidingHorn: By the same author .. check out the revamped pinxi : https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2387337 .
<leftyfb> pinxi isn't as useful if it's not available in the official repos.
<SlidingHorn> oooo...if we can get that released and packaged :P
<Bashing-om> SlidingHorn: Yeah, getting pinxi to replace inxi is the goal .
<leftyfb> pitty it's not going to be written in bash anymore
<leftyfb> that was the impressive part for me
<leftyfb> and I always planned to pull it apart to use some of it's data gathering in other scripts
<leftyfb> looks like I need to keep a copy of it around for future refernce
<Bashing-om> Yeah, been my experience, if ya do not save it - ya loose it ( now just where did I save it at ??)
<oerheks> Bashing-om, all his symptoms looks like his machine has reached EOL... i had no issues yesterday installing 1804
<oerheks> tomorrow my desktop :-P
<Bashing-om> oerheks: well, like this .. I installed 18.04's beta ubuntu and no issues, played with wayland - impressive . Installed xubuntu-core for testing and never went back to 16.04 . the core install is now my work horse .
<SlidingHorn> leftyfb: is there somewhere you pulled all that info from other than the log site?  Did you use some sort of script or something?
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-05-17
<leftyfb> SlidingHorn: it's mostly a function I have that looks through my logs
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<SlidingHorn> mornin lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey SlidingHorn how are you mate
<SlidingHorn> tired
<lotuspsychje> SlidingHorn: up all night?
<SlidingHorn> yeah
<lotuspsychje> slide down and relax, new timezones taking over from you :p
<lotuspsychje> !wacom
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lordievader> Why does Neo4 still claim his English is 'proficient' when multiple people have given up on him due to his poor English?
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^ lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are  you doing?
<lotuspsychje> fine here, weather is colder now
<lordievader> Yes, indeed -.-
<lotuspsychje> and almost weekend cant be bad :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
<lordievader> Weekend is nice :)
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<EriC^^> morning ducasse lordievader lotuspsychje
<lordievader> ð
<jink> Morning, nerds.
<ducasse> hi lordievader. EriC^^ - i'm fine, thanks, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<EriC^^> great thanks ducasse
<ducasse> national day here today, lots of stuff happening everywhere
<lordievader> Nice stuff, or 'too many people, not nice' stuff?
<ducasse> for me, the latter. there will be crowds *everywhere*, and i don't do crowds.
<ducasse> so staying at home and preparing for family to come for barbecue :)
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse jink
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the meat is marinating already?
<lordievader> ducasse: Crowds are the worst.
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje - all well today? haven't really started on the meat yet :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah fine here ducasse :p
<lotuspsychje> !info zzuf xenial
<ubot5> Package zzuf does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> !info zzuf precise
<ubot5> zzuf (source: zzuf): transparent application fuzzer. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.13.svn20100215-2ubuntu1 (precise), package size 65 kB, installed size 244 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info zzuf bionic
<ubot5> zzuf (source: zzuf): transparent application fuzzer. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.15-1 (bionic), package size 63 kB, installed size 187 kB
<lotuspsychje> weird
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys workday ;)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<JimBuntu> Hello there BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu, how's things this fine morn?
<JimBuntu> Good and looking up so far. It's a crisp/chilly morning with blue skies. I'll take it! How are you?
<lordievader> ð
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, the weather's the same here and I'm doing ok so far...lotsof stuuf to do today. My 2 daughters are driving up from Montreal today so i have to finish cleaning this place :-)
<JimBuntu> Awesome for you though!
<BluesKaj> yeah, absolutely
<BluesKaj> Hey lordievader, how's things?
<lordievader> Doing good here ð
<lordievader> Good luck with cleaning ð
<BluesKaj> hehe, yeah , had a good stsrt yesterday so it shouldn't be too difficult to finish up
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj, everyone. :)
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw :-)
<lordievader> ð
<BluesKaj> lordievader, that emoji is showing up here as a vertical rectangle
<pauljw> looks a hello kitty here...
<pauljw> looks like
<lordievader> Hmm, it is a waving hand emoji. Either your client doesn't use/support utf-8 or your fon't is missing this specific emoji.
<BluesKaj> the first 2 you posted worked ok
<lordievader> https://emojipedia.org/waving-hand-sign/
<pauljw> ah yeah, now i see the hand...
<pauljw> i'm so used to emoji's being face oriented that i wasn't looking for something else. :)
<BluesKaj> font I use is Dejavu Sans
<BluesKaj> of course I'm also testing 18.10 Cosmic dev OS so who what can happen
<BluesKaj> who knows
<BluesKaj> running well so far , but there haven't been many upgrades or new installs since it's early days
<daftykins> lordievader: i saw it
<daftykins> yeah i would've thought at this point there's not even anything between 18.04 and 18.10? :)
<BluesKaj> had about 50-60 upgrades so far
<BluesKaj> no kernel upgrades or kde/plasma major version changes
<tgm4883> leftyfb: yea dpkg-dev isn't needed for this
<leftyfb> got all the files already?
<tgm4883> dpkg-dev is for creating the repo. The repo is already created
<tgm4883> whoever gave her the ISO created the repo
<tgm4883> so I think we just need to find the right deb line to add to sources.list
<tgm4883> That page that was linked to assume you're dumping a bunch of random debs in a directory and want to make a repo out of that
<tgm4883> leftyfb: so I think what probably need to happen is to have a sources line something like
<tgm4883> deb file:/usr/local/mydebs xenial-updates main restricted ...
<leftyfb> deb file:///home/repository SuiteCodename main restricted universe multiverse
<tgm4883> yea
<leftyfb> deb file:///home/repository xenial-updates main restricted
<leftyfb> deb file:///home/repository xenial-security main restricted
<tgm4883> she's got updates and security, so two lines. Figuring out what parts she has now
<leftyfb> I'd say the 2 lines I just posted
<tgm4883> Probably. I'm doubtful she has universe and multiverse, but she might not have restricted either
<leftyfb> the lines I posted last don't have universe and multiverse
<daftykins> what's the deal with a custom repo?
<tgm4883> I know. I'm just saying we need to figure out what she has first
<tgm4883> daftykins: someone was given an ISO with a mirror of the repo to update an air-gapped server
<tgm4883> a mirror or a semi mirror, unsure how complete it is
<tgm4883> it's 45GB, so it's not a full mirror
<daftykins> curious method
<leftyfb> not a bad idea if it's done correct and with some instruction
<tgm4883> leftyfb: main and multiverse
<tgm4883> what a weird combo
<leftyfb> yeah, interesting
<tgm4883> oh and universe
<leftyfb> and universe
<tgm4883> that's not so crazy then
<daftykins> by the sounds though, it would've been easier to ship an image of an installed OS to transfer over
<daftykins> oh no i'm being an idiot, 'cause they wouldn't necessarily know what software they want to use
<leftyfb> nacc: you know WSL has very little do with #windows right? It's based off the cloud image of ubuntu. The error they were having has to just do with a broken mysql installation. The "runlevel" error is a red herring
<EriC^^> evening all
<EriC^^> hey oerheks
<oerheks> Hi EriC^^ \0/
<nacc> leftyfb: dunno any of that, i know that WSL is not supported in #ubuntu.
<leftyfb> nacc: I'd say with it's installation or kernel level stuff or maybe even advanced networking. But as far as a broken package system, it's just ubuntu. At that point it has nothing to do with Windows
<leftyfb> nacc: sending someone to #windows because of a broken mysql installation in ubuntu is going to get them nowhere and very frustrated with ubuntu
<leftyfb> not Windows
<nacc> leftyfb: i have seen donofrio find enough weird shit that i disagree with you.
<nacc> leftyfb: and choose to not disclose they are on wsl until an hour into debugging.
<nacc> leftyfb: and you know what, i honestly don't care if they are frustrated with ubuntu. All I did was point them to the FAQ response for their specific usage.
<oerheks> donofrio.. he is the only active user i know on WSL .. problems with installing a desktop and such
<leftyfb> which tells them to ask for help in #windows
<nacc> leftyfb: I believe I've seen you do the same with other users for other things. So let's just drop it
<nacc> leftyfb: feel free to change the FAQ response, if you think it's wrong.
<leftyfb> nacc: is that something I have the ability to do?
<nacc> leftyfb: yes.
<nacc> "!ubuwin is ..."
<nacc> (without the quotes, of course)
<oerheks> the !wsl factoid is correct, no?
<nacc> leftyfb: the admins of the bot will have to approve it, but that's how the responses are defined and adjusted over time.
<oerheks> !wsl
<ubot5> Windows 10 has a feature called Windows Subsystem for Linux, which allows it to run Ubuntu (and other Linux distro) userspace programs without porting/recompliation. For discussion and support, see #ubuntu-on-windows or ##windows. For installation instructions, see https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/install_guide
<nacc> leftyfb is claiming that support for some parts of it should occur in #ubuntu, afaict.
<nacc> might be true, but hasn't been our policy until now
<leftyfb> I most certainly claim that. #windows has no business supporting an Ubuntu OS. Maybe the installation on their subsystem. Or if something is wrong at the kernel level. But userland, no way.
<nacc> it's not an Ubuntu product, it's a Canonical prodcut
<nacc> *product
<nacc> also, I would think someone would pick "#ubuntu-on-windows" first, but that's just me
<leftyfb> the running OS is just the cloud image. Same thing that gets installed on servers
<nacc> except *how* it runs is nothing like Linux
<nacc> so you can handwave all you need to, I will handwave back
<leftyfb> there's 14 people in there. One is a chanserv, one is me, and one is the guy that was looking for help earlier. Not going to get much help there.
<nacc> nope, that's the consequence of choosing to use the product, then
<nacc> maybe don't use windows
<nacc> just like any number of other products that have no support on IRC
<nacc> <cough>mint</cough>
<oerheks> and 12.04 extended support
<oerheks> oh i love the wave of 32 users in the future
<leftyfb> In the case of today, the issue was with ubuntu as an OS and zero to do with windows or the WSL product.
<oerheks> 32 bit *
<oerheks> oh my ..
<lotuspsychje> oO
<kostkon> :/
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu & windows are such good friends :p
<lotuspsychje> ive readed it on internet!
<JimBuntu> it MUST be true! Kinda like how IBM loves Apple
<oerheks> Canonical loves ibm too.. and the next day 100.000 layed off
<leftyfb> a little too much
<leftyfb> that's all I worked on for most of the 3 years I worked there
<leftyfb> damn Power 8
<oerheks> I can not be paid, sorry Mark.
<oerheks> :-D
<tsimonq2> To be fair, Canonical probably loves IBM because they're a big ... corporate sponsor. ;)
<JimBuntu> For sure, there should be some love their. Plus, it's IBM, a fair amount of Linux love from IBM in general.
 * oerheks facepalms
<oerheks> sorry nacc .. i explicitly asked him about other os that might controll ..
<nacc> oerheks: that's what i thought too :/
<oerheks> then we all still win, guessing was right
<oerheks> !cookie | nacc
<ubot5> nacc: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<oerheks> !pizza EriC^^
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-05-18
<nacc> lol
<SlidingHorn> where would I direct someone to ask about a possible SRU?  (see: bug in main regarding openssh)
<guiverc> SlidingHorn, looking myself - #ubuntu-bugs comes to mind - mailing list maybe is https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad  - but is it appropriate??
<SlidingHorn> Well, if I'm reading it correctly they patched it into Yakkety, but not Xenial yet
<SlidingHorn> oh...wait.
 * SlidingHorn sings alphabet to self
<guiverc> i can't help (and i looked), mostly upstream & debian is all i saw re: xenial..  I'd ASSUME xenial is covered by debian versions mentioned; but I don't know
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> uh oh nebi is in the house>...run
<lordievader> Goos morning
<lotuspsychje> heys lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje How are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx happy almost weekend
<lotuspsychje> you also have holiday on minday lordievader
<lotuspsychje> *monday
<lordievader> Long weekend :D
<lotuspsychje> yess
<lordievader> Yes
<lotuspsychje> we have been to amsterdam last weekend
<lordievader> Oh, how was it?
<lotuspsychje> very nice, we had the best weather
<lordievader> Yeah, the weather last week has been nice :)
<lotuspsychje> we did van gogh museum, canal cruise, center town, shopping,bijenkorf
<lotuspsychje> and lot of grachten :p
<oerheks> That is where heineken is made of
<oerheks> LoLz
<lotuspsychje> lol
<oerheks> and amsterdam has got famous cheese .. but i never see any cow
<lotuspsychje> lol
<oerheks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmdxyqo3197gvp6/2018ride.jpg?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: drabber split in 2?
<oerheks> Drabber & Pien ( from mom)
<lotuspsychje> ahhh
<lotuspsychje> on your bakfiets.nl
<lotuspsychje> we saw alot of those too
<SlidingHorn> what is happening? xD
<el> bugzie has spent the past hour making a mess in #freenode and then decided to return to #ubuntu to show off his aptitude at using vpns. it'll be messy for a while, it usually is with him.
<SlidingHorn> not that it surprises me, but he was doing the same thing in #freenode?
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> ð
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<jink> Hi paul.
<pauljw> hi jink :)
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj, biab... :)
<leftyfb> gah, I did that once
<leftyfb> at a place I worked, we had a box that we did EVERYTHING on. It was the sysadmin of boxes. I forget how, but I executed every line in the bash_history ... or at least started to
<leftyfb> we didn't end up finding any consequences, but boy could that have been dangerous
<pragmaticenigma> sounds like fun... I'm curios what 7.* actually removed
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: just because there's a channel specifically for ubuntu-on-windows doesn't mean it's not supported in #ubuntu
<tgm4883> just that there may be more users for that specific niche in that channel
<pragmaticenigma> tgm4883: They were asked to change channels several times. It doesn't help a user to have multiple people tell them to move to another channel and then someone turns around and starts helping
<tomreyn> tgm4883: are you saying that WSL should now be supported on #ubuntu? since that'd be new - so far the common POV seemed to be that it's not. but i think the ubottu factoid must have recently changed about it, too. i think it used to state that it's not supported.
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: that happens all the time
<tgm4883> tomreyn: I see no reason why it shouldn't be supported in #ubuntu
<tgm4883> It's ubuntu branded and thus blessed (if not developed directly) by canonical
<tomreyn> well, works about as reliable as nvidia on 18.04, i guess.
<JimBuntu> I have no say really, but I view supporting WSDL in #ubuntu as worse than supporting non-English speaking in #ubuntu
<JimBuntu> is WSDL covered under the listed versions in the topic? "supports Ubuntu and official flavors; versions 14.04, 16.04, 17.10, and 18.04 "
<tomreyn> ok, i'm making things up about a recent change of the factoid: Last modified: 2017-10-18 14:59:12
<tgm4883> JimBuntu: WSL is 16.04, so yes?
<leftyfb> I think any server/dev activities with WSL should be supported within the OS. Any installation or hardware level or Windows integration issues should not be. WSL literally downloads the Ubuntu cloud image for the OS.
<pragmaticenigma> My take is the cross over between doing some things with Windows and some things with WSL in CLI confusing to any new user who's actually on Ubuntu and comes to the room looking for help, and wondering why we are talking about Windows
<leftyfb> !wsl > leftyfb
<ubot5> leftyfb, please see my private message
<pragmaticenigma> If they had asked something that was easily accomplished with the WSL environment, I wouldn't have cared as much. But they didn't even know where the file was download or how to do a simple "cd" command. To me, better to move them to a more dedicated venue, then tie up others
<JimBuntu> !wsl > JimBuntu
<ubot5> JimBuntu, please see my private message
<tomreyn> i remember that we had several situations where one of us spent a lot of time on trying to debug a weird issue with someonee. and then they said "oh btw. i'm using ubuntu on windows".
<tgm4883> Literally the only thing they needed assistance with is where the C drive was mounted in Ubuntu
<tgm4883> which would have been super simple to find out for us even for anyone not using WSL
<JimBuntu> That seems official enough... coming from a ubot
<leftyfb> tgm4883: that's the sort of thing I feel we shouldn't go out of our way to support since it's not an officially supported feature
<tgm4883> leftyfb: how is it not an officially supported feature?
<leftyfb> the problem is, when someone has a broken package like they did yesterday, which was easily fixed by someone that knows ubuntu, and they get sent to ##windows to help. How does that help anyone?
<leftyfb> tgm4883: well, WSL seems to be lava for a lot of people here .... so something beyond what's found in a typical ubuntu server install I would assume would be where we draw the line
<leftyfb> tgm4883: and since there's no host Windows drive mounted in a default install of ubuntu server ....
<tgm4883> leftyfb: anything not a standard Ubuntu ISO install seems like lava for lots of people here...
<leftyfb> again, I'd be happy to help with that regardless
<tgm4883> leftyfb: with that regard, we stop supporting anything that isn't available in the live cd
<leftyfb> and it's somewhat understandable in most cases .... but again, to send someone to #windows for help with a broken mysql-server install on ubuntu, that's just plain silly
<tgm4883> leftyfb: omg, that actually happened?
<leftyfb> yep
<leftyfb> yesterday
<pragmaticenigma> tgm4883: because there's a lot of bad information out there, and out dated information. Worst of all, these "helpful" articles ask users to install PPAs that include older packages that are properly maintained in the offical Ubuntu PPAs. It's a nightmare trying to untangle all that
<tomreyn> personally i won't support WSL, because i think people should switch to linux (and that is what i want to support) and i think WSL is just another way to prevent them from doing so.
<tgm4883> I swear I need banning powered for that reason
<tgm4883> tomreyn: not supporting something for person reasons and sending someone away are different things
<leftyfb> tgm4883: that wouldn't have been an easy ban for you. It was a regular who triggered !wsl which tells them to go to the channel with 9 people in it or #windows. Then we had someone from #windows come in and complain we sent someone there. I ended up helping the guy fix their packaging.
<tomreyn> tgm4883: taht's right. so i should say that IMO #ubuntu should not support WSL, because microsoft does not support it either, nor does, to my knowledge, canonical.
<tgm4883> tomreyn: so we only help with packages in main then?
<leftyfb> Again, the install is just Ubuntu cloud image. I see no reason why it wouldn't be supported by Canonical.
<tomreyn> tgm4883: with software you can install from an ubuntu OS (which in my understanding runs on the linux kernel), i'd say.
<pragmaticenigma> tgm4883: That's what we have documentation for. That's why anything outside of that is treated like lava. Without some documentation, it's hard to know the  right questions to ask a user about what they did and how to correct it
<pragmaticenigma> I can use the Ubuntu documentation much more readily than when someone comes in asking about how to run some program that I can't even access it's documentation because the company that made it is gone or hides the docuemntation behind a customer login
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: as leftyfb has mentioned (twice), it *is* a Ubuntu install.
<tomreyn> this may seem like a fierce discussion, but i think it's good to have it actually.
<tgm4883> tomreyn: +1
<leftyfb> +1
<pragmaticenigma> And if they install packages that come from the repos that are offered by Canoncial, then that's great. But when they install PPAs that go and force updates on the user, that aren't part of the main ubuntu repos... we're stuck in limbo have not realzing that they have a kernel patch or library patch that is required by some other component that is expecting a now deprecated method or function
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: when I say main. I mean "main", as in not "Universe", "Multiverse", or "Restricted"
<tomreyn> i don't have a say in what will be supported in #uubntu and what not, but i if WSL will be supported then i won't be able to support anyone without asking "do you run WSL" anymore in the future. which adds to the questions of "so you actually run ubuntu?" and "do you run a non EOL release?",. and at some point people will need to fill a questionnaire before we can sart supporting them. ;-)
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: as in, the only canonical supported repo (eg. I can purchase support and get help from canonical on this)
<leftyfb> oh, I don't think we should limit those out. I really haven't ever seen an issue with a package because it was from universe or multiverse
<pragmaticenigma> that's why I don't agree on supporting outside software. it's also in my experence that most of the outside software is stuff that the user is paying for support on, and they refuse to call the software vendors support line. Or the other fun one, when they come in and expect us to fix a problem they're getting paid to fix themselves
<leftyfb> btw, inxi is from Universe and we suggest that all the time
<tgm4883> leftyfb: you're right, we shouldn't. But that's kinda the point
<pragmaticenigma> Universe, Mulitverse, Restricted are offered and maintained by Canoncial (at least that my knowledge) they're currated to ensure system compatibility. And they are also included by default, if only disabled by default
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: yet they are not supported by Canonical
<pragmaticenigma> tgm4883: Source of that information would be helpful for me
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: you can't purchase support for packages in those, they don't get security updates
<tgm4883> one sec
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
<tomreyn> there's the security team faq. but i think not everyone in canonical agrees to their strict interpretations.
<tgm4883> Main - Canonical-supported free and open-source software.
<tgm4883> Universe - Community-maintained free and open-source software.
<tomreyn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ
<tgm4883> Or check the software sources app on any Ubuntu install. It says that right there
<tgm4883> tomreyn: I don't see how that conflicts with anything that was said, other than main and restricted being supported by the security team
<leftyfb> aren't we the community? :)
<tgm4883> leftyfb: yes
<leftyfb> I miss those LoCo days
<tomreyn> tgm4883: i didn't mean to say it conflicts with anything that was said here.
<tomreyn> tgm4883: is just posted the link as a second perspective on things
<tgm4883> leftyfb: that's kinda the point. We (the community) already support many more things than are supported by canonical. WSL is a Ubuntu install, and as such should be supported in #ubuntu
<leftyfb> I agree
<leftyfb> to a point
<leftyfb> asking how to install it, maybe just point at the docs
<leftyfb> how to get Desktop working on it, no
<pragmaticenigma> Thanks for the link tgm4883, I agree that it implies Canonical only handles main. I'm open to the others as was just said, we are the community. the community support repos are fine with me as well. I'll have to look up the requirements for a package to be added to Universe/Restricted ... as I think Canoncial does required a listing for a developer website
<tgm4883> leftyfb: that sounds fine to me
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: There are requirements, I don't believe they are from Canonical though (although it's likely that all the gate keepers for said repo are Canonical employees)
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: they likely came from the technical board
<tgm4883> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard
 * tomreyn /invite donofrio #ubuntu
<tomreyn> apparently i'm the only one who considered this funny. :-/
<leftyfb> inside joke?
<tomreyn> must be. donofrio was sharing his experience about running ubuntu on windows a lot, asked a lot of questions on it in #ubuntu, was repeatedly asked to ask them in the wsl channel instead, and then talked a lot to himself there.
<tomreyn> so tgm4883 + leftyfb, if #ubuntu will take a softer stance wrt wsl then the factoid should maybe be updated...
<tomreyn> or we just keep it as it is and just dont ask people to move there anymore
<tgm4883> Does it need updated?
<leftyfb> who makes the decision
<tgm4883> !wsl
<ubot5> Windows 10 has a feature called Windows Subsystem for Linux, which allows it to run Ubuntu (and other Linux distro) userspace programs without porting/recompliation. For discussion and support, see #ubuntu-on-windows or ##windows. For installation instructions, see https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/install_guide
<tgm4883> I think it looks fine
<tomreyn> ## windows folks will probbal ynot appreciate it.
<leftyfb> I feel ##windows shouldn't be lumped in with general support. That's false. #windows should only be used for installation and nothing else
<leftyfb> Also, #ubuntu-on-windows is dead
<tgm4883> leftyfb: I'd agree with that
<pragmaticenigma> I'd agree to support WSL, so long as it's confied to the WSL environment. Like how to run a program/service ... that would easily traverse the Ubuntu/WSL environments. Like config files, package management, etc
<leftyfb> bingo
<pragmaticenigma> So in the case of NOOB... I'd go as far as helping them run the md5sum command
<tgm4883> That seems reasonable
<pragmaticenigma> but how to find the file they downloaded in windows... seems harder to explain...
<pragmaticenigma> other than to offer them the "cd" command and letting them know that C: => /mnt/c
<tgm4883> pragmaticenigma: that also seems reasonable
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: rm -rf /mnt/c ? ;)
<pragmaticenigma> lol
<leftyfb> too soon? :)
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... leftyfb need to burn the ISO first :-P
<leftyfb> ah, right. good call
<pragmaticenigma> Believe me when I say, I love to help others. Impatience is one shortcoming I don't handle well, and that honestly is why I was quick to deflect NOOB to the other channel.
<pragmaticenigma> This conversation was great to have too... I come away with some better insight, and better ideas for how to continue being helpful, and keeping instep with everyone else
<leftyfb> tgm4883: so again, who makes the decisions on how #ubuntu is operated? I'm all for coming away from this conversation being more helpful, but there's the possibility of upsetting others who feel we shouldn't touch WSL with a 10ft pole
<tgm4883> leftyfb: IDK, previously I've asked in #ubuntu-ops
<leftyfb> ok, so while this conversation was productive, at least with the few of us in agreement, it doesn't make much of a difference unless we get official buy-in from the appropriate parties
<oerheks> i like spring
<oerheks> .. Win10 spring Update screwed up Grub. https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8ke0vq/win10_spring_update_screwed_up_grub/
<pragmaticenigma> screwed up? nah, I'm guessing MS made a change to their bootloader and didn't bother to check what was written to the MBR
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: claim is UEFI installs are fine though... odd
<tomreyn> obviously, windows is a monotheistic religion
<pragmaticenigma> what a pane it is too
 * pragmaticenigma smirks
<tomreyn> :))
<ducasse> coming in late to this discussion, but would it be fine to answer a request for help with wsl with "sorry, i can't/won't support that, please hang around and see if someone else can"?
 * ducasse is one of the 10ft pole crowd
<JimBuntu> I would wait until they start being impatient, otherwise, !patience
<ducasse> it's just that i often find myself alone for a while in #ubuntu in the mornings, was just wondering how to handle a wsl user
<ducasse> btw, hi JimBuntu :)
<JimBuntu> Hey there ducasse. I was surprised by the discussion. A lot to learn from it for me.
<ducasse> yep, but i basically want nothing to do with an environment i've never even seen irl. i get that it's ubuntu in a way, but not enough for me :)
<leftyfb> it's not "in a way" .. it IS ubuntu
<leftyfb> it's the Ubuntu cloud image, same thing they put on all of AWS and what MAAS uses to deploy with
<oerheks> not the desktop, but the core..
<leftyfb> ducasse: why not help with just the OS part of it if you can? If there's a package or permission problem or the like
<leftyfb> right
<leftyfb> there's no desktop stuff supported on it
<ducasse> leftyfb: possibly, but if things start getting weird i'm dropping it and walking away
<ducasse> as in, it doesn't behave like a standard install on a linux kernel would
<tgm4883> ducasse: I think that sounds fine, provided that was an actual issue. I would have a problem with saying "I'm not supporting you because you use WSL"
<tomreyn> well, i may choose to say so. nothing anyone can do about my preferences. and an individual choosing not to support $something is not against the channel policies, afaik
<leftyfb> tomreyn: sure, but there's no reason to answer with the fact that you won't support it. Just let someone else take care of it.
<tomreyn> what is the reason not to asnwer that i won't support it then?
<tomreyn> i mean, either seems fine to me, unless i'd build a political disucssion around it, which wouldn't beloing to #ubuntu
<leftyfb> answering with "I won't help you" helps nobody
<tomreyn> right, but answering "I cannot help you with WSL since I don't like to support it", this could help soemone.
<tomreyn> that's how i do it for nvidia drivers
<leftyfb> how does that help anyone?
<leftyfb> it's pretty negative
<tomreyn> hmm you think so? i just consider it a statement, an explanation, not negative it all, since it's not personally addressing the user.
<SlidingHorn> what differences are there in a WSL ubuntu vs a normal installation?
<tomreyn> i think this helps someone in terms of making them wonder whether their choices are good.
<leftyfb> SlidingHorn: it's not running the linux kernel. Other than that, none
<leftyfb> tomreyn: so the whole purpose is to impose your opinion of a product on the one asking for help with it without providing any help
<tomreyn> leftyfb: no, the main purpose would be to at least respond something, explaining why they're not getting any help. i'd just do that if there was no one else responding.
<leftyfb> IMO, things like that are best kept to yourself. I'm sure the person asking for help is well aware there are people in existence that do not like/prefer the product they're looking for help with and don't really care to hear there is yet another one right in front of them not willing to help them
<tomreyn> you know it happens that people come ot the channel and ask rather specific questions about functionality which no one is really into, or no one likes to support. i think in those situations it's better to provide an explanation to the one asking than not to respond at all.
<tomreyn> since people will just feel left out, being ignored.
<tomreyn> and i don't like *this* to happen.
<leftyfb> I don't see why there's all this hatred towards WSL. I think it's a great gateway solution to getting people to switch. At the very least, someone never switches completely but instead develops linux solutions for the rest of us on their windows machine.
<leftyfb> it's a lot better than just ignoring Windows users completely
<leftyfb> since they do make up the biggest market for us
<tomreyn> i'm just an ubuntu user, i dont have a market. ;)
<leftyfb> the community does
<tomreyn> let's be positive: let's see how we get along and if you get annoyed or just think i'm doing things wrong you are welcome to point it out.
<pragmaticenigma> I would start encouraging WSL helpees to join #ubuntu-on-windows either way... just to help build up that community too
<leftyfb> That's not a bad idea. But we'll have to convey the idea that at the moment there's not much of a community
<nacc> leftyfb: afaict, no one does what you're suggesting. m$ wants people to use powershell and all that stuff
<nacc> leftyfb: but i agree with your sentiment, in principle, that if someone has an ubuntu issue, then it can be resolved in #ubuntu.
<nacc> leftyfb: however, the moment they get to something related to the kernel, say, they are in potentially unsupported territory
<oerheks> sudo apt install wsl-desktop ... err ... https://github.com/QMonkey/wsl-tutorial
<nacc> as I don't believe WSL is virtualizing the cloud image properly, but I genuinely don't know
<leftyfb> nacc: in the past 2 days, there's been exactly 2 cases of people using it for docker and to actually verify an ubuntu ISO. Neither of those have anything to do with powershell and one was actually moving to ubuntu
<pragmaticenigma> It's not... in fact the number of hoops to enable it right now should tell the average user to just not do it
<nacc> leftyfb: the only user who asked about wsl over the past year consistently had bastardized a desktop and requested helper repeatedly for it
<leftyfb> nacc: I agree with not supporting the kernel part and anything not having to do with Ubuntu
<nacc> (donofrio)
<leftyfb> that's a bad example and one that I would agree with not supporting
<nacc> the issue will be they will see you supporting something else and will complain (IMO)
<nacc> but that's up to the community to resolve anyways
<leftyfb> right
<leftyfb> and no, it's not virtualizing the cloud image at all. It IS the cloud image running on a "linux compatible kernel interface"
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, that is the slippery slope of this ... you cave and help one, then everyone expects the same treatment... rules or otherwise
<leftyfb> the kernel is the only thing that's modified from the cloud image
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: that can easily be managed. Just gotta define what is supported
<leftyfb> I would say, anything within the cloud image environment, mainly userland
<leftyfb> no installation or kernel level stuff. Certainly nothing desktop/GUI related
<leftyfb> networking is fine as long as it's within the OS and nothing to do with whatever layers M$ is providing for it
<leftyfb> I would even say, if the image has an ip, that's the end of networking support
<leftyfb> it's gonna be great if that was the recovery partition for Windows lol
<leftyfb> "hey guys, weird question, but i need to figure out what this 732 MB (windows units) partition is on my drive, from windows" I read this differently
<daftykins> sounds like you need a tinfoil hat at the ready for that one
<JimBuntu> as I did. I was like "windows" has it's own "units"
<SlidingHorn> lol leftyfb
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-05-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> have a nice weekend mates
<ducasse> good morning
<SlidingHorn> good...lord.
<SlidingHorn> ugh, another one of the spammy accounts
<SlidingHorn> is it just me, or is that issue getting worse lately?
<ducasse> they've sure been doing it a lot lately
<lordievader> Good afternoon
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<oerheks> hi beautifull
<BluesKaj> hey oerheks....beautiful?
<oerheks> oke oke ... gorgeous
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - having a nice weekend?
<ducasse> oerheks: you charmer!
<BluesKaj> oerheks, oh i get it now, you were referring to my 2 daughters who are visiting this weekend :-)
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse yes, a very nice weekend, how about you?
<ducasse> a very good one, thanks. had family here from thursday to yesterday, today just relaxing. starting dinner soon.
<leftyfb> obvious troll is obvious
<leftyfb> anyone else care to "help" them
<leftyfb> ?
<krytarik> Noope!
<tomreyn> kostkon: i guess this factoid should be reworked (reisub), since there is /etc/sysctl.d/10-magic-sysrq.conf
<tomreyn> ...effectively limiting this to SUB
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> is that happening on all distros or another juicy 'buntu quirk?
<tomreyn> i think this was introduced after media outcry about the fact that you could kill the screensaver that way
<tomreyn> i'm not sure what other distros do
<tomreyn> SUB is usually sufficient, though
<tomreyn> (kill the screensaver and gain physical, unauthenticated access to the graphical desktop, that is)
<kostkon> tomreyn, oh yeah they've disabled part of it
<daftykins> never even tried it if i'm honest, all my Loonix are virtualised so it doesn't tend to be relevant
<tomreyn> you can still write it to /proc/sysrq-trigger just for the fun of it
<leftyfb> SlidingHorn: good luck with that. I just had a long conversation in #ubuntu-ops. They made it pretty clear they don't understand what trolling is. They'll try to reason with him (maybe) and then ..... poof ... nothing
 * leftyfb is shocked
<daftykins> i wish i was, been like that for over 10 years
<tomreyn> I believe you may have been trolled by #ubuntu-ops
<tomreyn> (not really, but it would be kind of funny if that was their response to it)
<JanC> actually, some sysrq commands can be useful in virtualised systems too...
<daftykins> can't say i'm too familiar with them but if i've got a problem with a VM, i've got bigger problems i'm sure :D
<daftykins> and i'm more likely to recreate it
<JanC> some can be used for debugging purposes & such
<JanC> and if e.g. your VM keeps hanging, you might want to find out why instead of keeping to restart it  :)
<JanC> all available sysrq commands should be documented in /usr/share/doc/linux-doc/admin-guide/sysrq.rst.gz
<JanC> (it also explains how you can change the sysrq permissions with sysfs/sysctl)
<daftykins> well i wouldn't be that dumb :> never happened though
<tomreyn> 131 ubuntu archive mirrors currently do https
<tomreyn> a lot more than i expected
<tomreyn> 131 of 450 total
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> had those people moaning about them not being, again?
<tomreyn> someone stated that that were none (or they could not find any, apparently not tried too hard), so i checked whether that's correct.
<tomreyn> i had assumed there would be a small number, like 5 or 10
<daftykins> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-05-20
<tomreyn> cross posting from #ubuntu-mirrors: i'm looking at http://mirrors.ubuntu.com/?C=S;O=D and am wondering what these special country codes are. e.g. VA would be vatican, but most or all of those mirrors are not from there.
<tomreyn> i guess the script which creates those files is just buggy
<SlidingHorn> two_dogs is back....hopefully sober this time
<daftykins> in for a ruff time, twice over
 * SlidingHorn boos daftykins
<daftykins> :D
 * SlidingHorn throws tomatoes
<daftykins> i will save those for my lunch
<SlidingHorn> joke's on you, they're rotten
<daftykins> :( well that's just doubly rude
<daftykins> granted it's tradition :P
 * oerheks throws hardware
<oerheks> 32 bit uefi
<oerheks> doorstopper
<daftykins> nasty
<daftykins> although didn't they make that easy to handle now?
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<SlidingHorn> you're up early
<oerheks> rent-a-bed-from-0400
<oerheks> hi lotuspsychje SlidingHorn
<daftykins> hey lotus \o
<daftykins> heh is this serious, you can't list ufw rules if it's not enabled xD
<oerheks> ufw show added
<oerheks> sudo cat /etc/ufw/user.rules
<daftykins> ah, i was doing 'status numbered' and 'status verbose' which just tell you you're not using it :D
<daftykins> thanks oerheks - i should have just googled rather than manpage'd
<oerheks> bing
<daftykins> bing'd it ;D
<oerheks> but oke, with android phone, ubuntu+chrome and nexus-player on hd tv, it is fun
<daftykins> hrmm?
<oerheks> 1 can swap a movie to tv, from browser or phone, and control
<oerheks> or swap from tv to mobile because i want to grab cookies in the kitchen
<daftykins> hrmm what source though? google play video?
<lotuspsychje> hey SlidingHorn daftykins oerheks
<lotuspsychje> yep its 4h41
<lotuspsychje> weekends i wakeup more relaxed
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje> trying instant cappucino here, but bit strong, saur
<lotuspsychje> hey Guest48915
<guiverc> sour is okay - you can always add sugar (too sweet is i think a little worse)
<lotuspsychje> guiverc:
<lotuspsychje> there's suppose to be sugar in it, and added one sugar :p
<lotuspsychje> but still not really tasty
<guiverc> instant are usually UHT milk; i'm used to real milk...
<lotuspsychje> yeah same here
<lotuspsychje> that might be the prob
<JanC> tomreyn: it's the mirrors people from those countries are proposed to use
<JanC> obviously if there are no mirrors in Vatican City, they have to use others in Europe
<daftykins> or pray ;)
<daftykins> to almighty Tux
<JanC> even the pope doesn't believe that IP-over-prayers works
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> im sure the pope got admins
<guiverc> ;) @ daftykins
<daftykins> yeah he prays, then a flash drive appears
<lotuspsychje_> 0o
<lotuspsychje_> !unity
<ubot5> Unity is a graphical shell for the GNOME desktop environment. Ubuntu used it by default from 11.04 to 17.04. For more information, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity
<lotuspsychje_> !gnome
<ubot5> GNOME was the default desktop environment on Ubuntu up to 10.10. To install the GNOME Shell, type [ sudo apt-get install gnome-shell ] in a !terminal. For the GNOME-based !flavor of Ubuntu, see !ubuntu-gnome
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje_> hey hey
<oerheks> "installing xinit doesnt give you a working xorg like it used to"
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, he he hey
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey kostkon BluesKaj how are you guys
<kostkon> hey jimmy jim jimmy jim jim jim jim all is good
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> doing fine here lotuspsychje, and you?
<lotuspsychje> all good here mate
<lotuspsychje> nite nite tv time
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-05-11
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<Datta> ping
<eddvrs> Hey- anyone using a cloud VPS to host ubuntu server- I'm using one at the moment, but it doesn't support additional storage in my location so I'm looking for suggestions for other providers
<daftykins> i manage a few digitalocean VPSs, never had any problems
<daftykins> lowest tier, $5 USD/month
<eddvrs> Yes, that came up in my searches and looks good. and do you get full root access with that?
<daftykins> yep
<eddvrs> I'll look into that further then. thanks
<daftykins> np
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-05-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<GR1M0R4CL3> hello
<daftykins> \o
<sarnold> hey GR1M0R4CL3
<GR1M0R4CL3> hey !
<GR1M0R4CL3> any discussions going on ?
<sarnold> nothing at the moment
<Deano59> anyone tried Ubuntu 20.04 on a RPI4 yet?
<GR1M0R4CL3> nope. got one but didnt try yet
<GR1M0R4CL3> was thinking of installing the pihole stuff on it
<Deano59> I have raspbian and pihole, it's good. but I have a spare 4gb rpi4 sitting about doing nothing so might try it.
<GR1M0R4CL3> previous versions before 20.04 could not be used ?
<Deano59> 19.10 could.
<Deano59> 16.04 on a pi2/3
<Deano59> no idea about others.
<Deano59> I ain't used ubuntu on a rpi4 for a long time lol
<Deano59> last time was when usb/mouse was broke because of 4gb ram.
<Deano59> that was fixed and I haven't used it since. ;P
<daftykins> the 4 has had a pretty bad run alright, wouldn't touch one without a heatsink fitted myself
<sarnold>  < micrex22> try installing OSS instead of ALSA :p < micrex22> you can always use JFS :3
<sarnold> this guy sure has a theme..
<Deano59> daftykins: my RPI4 melted my sdcard to a case. it gets way too hot.
<Deano59> lesson learned, think I'll get the fanshim.
<daftykins> lol, oops
<daftykins> honestly i think it's the point where the makers are misleading people
<daftykins> *to the point
<Deano59> yep
<Deano59> should never have been released without a heatsink/fan. like how the Odroid C4's SBC comes with a pre-installed heatsink.
<oerheks> even a rasp pi 3 needs cooling, right?
<Deano59> not really
<Deano59> my rpi3 is on constantly, 40c. not tried under load.
<Deano59> just pihole on it.
<Deano59> I was getting throttling on my rpi4 because of 80c temps lol
<Deano59> couldn't even touch it
<akem> You need a radiator and a fan.
<akem> I even got one on my RPI3.
<Deano59> haha those look cool like but nah, forget that.
<Deano59> Active Temp: 46.2 Â°C
<Deano59> my RPI3 ^
<akem> Mine has 2 little fans. With Recalbox without it, it was going up to 70C IIRC sometimes.
<akem> I mean without the fans.
<akem> And with it, it stays about or less than 50 like yours.
<akem> Its a Pi 3b+.
<Deano59> mine is the 3, not b+.
<akem> You run Ubuntu with Gnome on it?
<Deano59> no.
<Deano59> atm it's got raspbian on it. using it for pihole and a znc.
<Deano59> I wanna try 20.04 but on my rpi4.
<Deano59> ;P
<akem> Ha ok. Yeah, Pi 3 is probably too lightweight anyway for running Gnome. But i heard some people are running desktop stuff sometimes, but more likely with the Pi 4.
<akem> I use mine for oldschool video games 16/32b It does very well :P
<JanC> if the GPU in the Pi 3 is capable of running GNOME it should be okay
<sarnold> heh, I ran unity from ubuntu dot ancient on a pandaboard es
<sarnold> was that 12.04 LTS?
<sarnold> it wasn';t something I'd have liked as a daily use system but I was impressed with how well it worked
<JanC> as long as you don't try to run too many applications on it, it probably works  :)
<sarnold> I've even heard the rpi4 is pretty good
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-05-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<Deano59> good morning.
<Psi-Jack> Heh, so, anyone notice recent Firefox updates enabling TRR by default, causing local DNS resolution to just fail?
<joelcrump> if that's the thing i'm thinking of it asked me and i declined, i believe
<Psi-Jack> It doesn't ask, it just enables it, DNS over HTTPS, basically.
<joelcrump> i may be thinking of something else, not sure
<Psi-Jack> Heh.
<Psi-Jack> Yeah. This was something that, for me, which I have local DNS, made looking up local DNS versus remote DNS, completely broken, and all because Firefox decided to silently enable DNS over HTTPS.
<Psi-Jack> Which is going to piss off a lot of people I imagine, especially in similar split-horizon DNS situations.
<tds> Psi-Jack: out of interest, where are you?
<Psi-Jack> I'm... At home?
<tds> I think firefox were planning to only enable it in certain countries
<Psi-Jack> Ah, Florida, USA.
<tds> ah, that would line up
<tds> but this kind of thing is often discussed in #dns, may be worth grumbling there if you like :)
<Psi-Jack> Yeah, I had to specifically go and disable that. :/
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. #dns wouldn't be the right place. More like Mozila's IRC channels, directly.
<Psi-Jack> I already personally hate that their browser does its own DNS resolving and caching.
<Talikka> Are there "universal" Ubuntu guide books that are translated into several languages? How is the translation process managed if e.g. the original (English?) version is changed?
<GR1M0R4CL3> hello
<joelcrump> hello
<GR1M0R4CL3> i feel stupid
<lotuspsychje> why's that
<GR1M0R4CL3> in the settings, power options. there are 2 buttons for wifi and bluetooth
<GR1M0R4CL3> i thought those, when ON, would allow Gnome to "turn off wifi or bluetooth" to save power
<GR1M0R4CL3> so i turned them off to avoid losing wifi and of course, those buttons DO turn off wifi when clicked
<GR1M0R4CL3> took me 3 disconnect in a row to realize I was the one disconnecting myself
<GR1M0R4CL3> ><
<joelcrump> i did the same thing not long after installing 20.04, i misunderstood what it meant in the settings
<sarnold> oh jeeeze
<sarnold> I've heard apple switches have the same feeling, and heard much grumbling that we'd followed their mistakes on that one. or they followed our mistakes. I'm not sure which :)
<joelcrump> well i mean i figured it out once i did it
<joelcrump> it didn't take away from my appreciation of ubuntu's excellent setup of linux
<lordcirth> Anyone got a link to good docs on tuning LVM for NVMe?
<daftykins> can't see the advice being any different than SSDs in general, be they SATA or PCIe - NVMe is just a protocol and a misused one at that, we didn't call SSDs or HDDs 'AHCI'. though i don't touch LVM -
<lordcirth> daftykins, I meant more for NVMe speeds rather than the protocol. A coworker has benched LVM as being 2x slower than raw on Optane, and I'm curious to know hy
<daftykins> PCIe speeds ;)
<lordcirth> Sure
<oerheks> just a notice; https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/java-client-roadmap-updates
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-05-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> !ping
<marcoagpinto> The demon!!!!!
 * lotuspsychje runs
<marcoagpinto> yesterday I spent several hours working on Proofing Tool GUI and damaged teh whole decoding words code.... :((((((((( I had to revert the code
<lotuspsychje> whats wrong Deano59 ?
<Deano59> ? I want to know who's OP.....
<lotuspsychje> Deano59: why
<Deano59> if you're not an OP, no idea why you're replying....
<Deano59> I want to kno who's OP, it's simple really. :)
<lotuspsychje> Deano59: there is an op channel, but you need a reason to join there, hence why the question
<ducasse> Deano59: there is a list of ops, but we don't highlight them unless necessary
<lotuspsychje> Deano59: also, you dont have to be an op to respond to questions in the ubuntu support channel(s) there are many volunteers that can help
<Deano59> lotuspsychje: can I PM?
<Deano59> I need someone I can trust. :)
<lotuspsychje> what is this about exactly Deano59
<leftyfb> Deano59: what do you need exactly? These channels are for support and ubuntu discussions. I you have business only related to Ubuntu ops, then ask in #ubuntu-ops
<Deano59> leftyfb: I need someone to access something that I forwarded a port for to see if the link asks for a user/pass. need someone I can trust.
<Deano59> I can't do it and don't know anyone who I could ask to try.
<daftykins> that's it...
<Deano59> yes.
<leftyfb> Deano59: feel free to pm me
<daftykins> you went about it in the worst most suspicious way xD
<Deano59> oops
<leftyfb> Deano59: it's not the best way, but for now, you can stick an .htaccess auth on this page
<leftyfb> until you can figure out the proper auth for what you're playing with
<Deano59> thanks leftyfb :) :) :) :)
<GR1M0R4CL3_> hello
<GR1M0R4CL3> hello
<sarnold> hey GR1M0R4CL3
<GR1M0R4CL3> changed the irc client. hexchat kept disconnecting
<sarnold> lets hope this one is a bit more reliable
<GR1M0R4CL3> trying Polari
<GR1M0R4CL3> hexchat was disconnecting. then every channel it would not rejoin. very annoying
<GR1M0R4CL3> what are you using if i may ask ?
<GR1M0R4CL3> trying to find how to increase font size. 4K display makes it tiny
<daftykins> irssi here
<daftykins> (not GUI)
<GR1M0R4CL3> not tried yet in console. might be a very good idea
<GR1M0R4CL3> the shell looks very good. so irssi should too
<daftykins> i run it in a VM on a host that's always on, then SSH to that VM from whichever system i'm on, so that i don't disconnect and reconnect all day
<GR1M0R4CL3> it is useful to have something always on compared to me that only logs from time to time ?
<daftykins> it depends what you use IRC for
<daftykins> it does need some work, i use the basic nickcolor.pl script to give different colours to each user
<sarnold> irssi here, I've been meaning to try weechat for a decade though, since I'm now scared to touch my irssi config
<daftykins> a pal was giving thelounge.chat a try the other day, a self-host web client
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-05-15
<oerheks> come on guys, fix those videos https://askubuntu.com/questions/1239703/hi-i-cant-install-my-kali-with-30gb-and-see-a-lot-of-kali-installing-videos
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
 * TJ- waves ... can anyone recall which channels I'm supposed to be in!? This thing keeps 'forgetting' :D
<ducasse> hiyas TJ- - join all the channels!
<TJ-> hehehe ... all 20,000 ?
<ducasse> :)
<TJ-> I know I usually have about 25 in the list and I'm at 15 so far :D
<ducasse> i have the same problem now and then, need to fix my autojoin list
<TJ-> It's since I moved to the new weechat and a couple of the python plugins seem to be tempremental
<TJ-> Ahhh! read the logs/ directory list
<daftykins> :)
<JakeSays> ok so what's the purpose of #ubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: to ask ubuntu issues and get them solved
<oerheks1> technical support, JakeSays
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: why did you regret upgrading to 20.04, and from wich version did you?
<JakeSays> lol ok well i have an ubuntu issue
<JakeSays> lotuspsychje: 19.10
<JakeSays> well, ok, i guess it's not an issue per se
<JakeSays> but i found a problem with tcgetattr that came about with 20.04
<JakeSays> it's behavior has changed in such a way that fails when lazy developers use it.
<JakeSays> lol ok this is totally not a support issue
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: please lets treat developers with respect, everyone is doing what they can
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: you have chosen to install a non-lts, and move to the next version early
<JakeSays> lotuspsychje: i'm a developer. i can be just as lazy as the rest
<lotuspsychje> that means extra bugs can arise
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: if you want a stable, less bugs experience choose the LTS way and wait for the point releases
<JakeSays> anyway, i'm just trying to get more info on this behavior change. the change is specifically three padding bytes in termios are being returned with garbage in 20.04, and they were zero'd in 19.10
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: you can also help the community and the devs by filing a !bug about it
<lotuspsychje> might work better then regret and frustrations
<JakeSays> hey lets not get hung up on the word regret. i was just expressing myself.
<JakeSays> where do i file this bug.
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: do you have a launchpad account?
<JakeSays> i dont believe so
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: create one first, then ubuntu-bug yourpackagename from terminal
<JakeSays> ok. what package would this issue be a part of?
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: well that was gonna be my next idea, it might be handy to first ask about your issue in #ubuntu volunteers might know a solution or an existing bug
<JakeSays> lol that's where i started
<lotuspsychje> JakeSays: yeah but you never asked a question
<JakeSays> you never gave me a chance! but i'll go post my question there
<JakeSays> lotuspsychje: ugh. i should just go back to bed. so trying to create a launchpad account - it keeps telling me to fix errors, but doesn't highlight anything. (it was highlighting errors when my passwords don't match)
<daftykins> web forms are pretty basic
<JakeSays> lol nevermind
<JakeSays> i should know better than to attempt anything before i've consumed my requisite amount of caffeine
<GR1M0R4CL3> hello
<JakeSays> lotuspsychje_: your earlier comment about "the lts way" - 20.04 is an lts release.
<daftykins> you misunderstood, plus he's gone
<daftykins> ah no he hasn't, hmm surprised - usually long gone by now :D
<JakeSays> daftykins: misunderstood what?
<daftykins> what you just quoted obviously
<JakeSays> daftykins: i didnt, but thanks for the opinion.
<daftykins> JakeSays: no you've got it all wrong, you stated that you were on 19.10 and upgraded to 20.04, you were told it'd be different had you stuck to LTS, which means that you'd have been running 18.04 - and upgrade to 20.04 wouldn't work until 20.04.1 releases
<daftykins> quite simple really
<JakeSays> yes i understood that.
<daftykins> why did you just affirm 20.04 being LTS then? shows you didn't get that
<JakeSays> because i would assume that an lts release would be solid enough to support upgrading over a previous version without causing major issues.
<daftykins> i don't think the destination being an LTS has any bearing whatsoever on the upgrade process
<JakeSays> yeah ok.
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> for some the discussion is too much
<Eickmeyer> This is why I put in every release announcement: "Since itâs just out, you may experience some issues, so you might want to wait a bit before upgrading."
<daftykins> such a shame the obvious has to be said
<Eickmeyer> Also, most of the time I find people that have trouble upgrading have added PPAs with weird versioning schemes in their packages.
<daftykins> mmm definitely
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-05-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey mesaboogie
<mesaboogie> hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> welcome mhpl3141592
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: Hi :)
<lotuspsychje> if you have config issues with i3, talk to ducasse when he wakes up in a few mhpl3141592
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: I try to adopts to Gnome as much as possible. But I tried relogin i3 and couple of otehrs.
<lotuspsychje> mhpl3141592: the ubuntu-docs ? icon also holds up a lot of help resources, and the wiki leftyfb pointed you
<mhpl3141592> My main problem is how things goes in advanced/intermediate level ubutnu best practice. In Arch for example everything is in the wiki and man pages, the user seldomely need anything else. With ubuntu it seems the mainstream is to search through google and find your way through. This have its advantages. But as a noob. I want to know best practices. If I missed anything. Ubuntu wiki for
<mhpl3141592> example is very sparse and obsolete
<mhpl3141592> So, ubuntu docs, wiki, then google. right?
<lotuspsychje> there's tons of resources out there mhpl3141592
<lotuspsychje> like i say, we have an active ubuntu community here aswell for support & discussions
<lotuspsychje> there's also #i3 channel
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: Thanks. I want to learn how things works here. So the resources are diverse and even an advanced user will use combinations of these: Doc/Wiki, IRC and Google
<lotuspsychje> manpages, askubuntu, ubuntu forums, individual websites,..
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: I get it know. I feared that due to being noob I'm doing things wrong through my early adoptation.
<lotuspsychje> i very like the tutorials on https://linuxconfig.org/ for example
<mhpl3141592> Actually having such diverse resources has its own merits
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: this linuxconfig.org seems very polish and good. Thansk
<mhpl3141592> Does anybody know how to bring back default ubuntu icons? I install regolith and switched to it and when I switched back it changed the icons which I don't like
<lotuspsychje> mhpl3141592: we can only support the ubuntu !flavours not the other derivatives
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: I've fresh ubuntu default install. I just install regolish as an DE and login to it, didn't like it
<mhpl3141592> I'm using vanila Ubuntu
<mhpl3141592> but the regolith has changed the icons
<lotuspsychje> mhpl3141592: i dont see regolith on the repos, how did you install?
<mesaboogie> 20.04 fresh install default vanilla here as well.
<mesaboogie> defaut theme is really nice
<lotuspsychje> cool mesaboogie
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: it was right in their website. I add a ppa repo though
<lotuspsychje> mhpl3141592: thats also where support stops, adding external ppa's we point back to the maintainers for support
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: how can I remove that ppa (I can figure it out), uninstall regolith and revert back the icons?
<lotuspsychje> mhpl3141592: we also strongly advice to use packages from the ubuntu repos, to keep your system healthy, but you are the end admin of your system, you do what you want ofc
<lotuspsychje> !ppapurge | mhpl3141592
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: I din't know PPAs has such implications
<lotuspsychje> mhpl3141592: not all, some not so well maintained ppa's can conflict with apt
<lotuspsychje> and bring your system into dependency nightmares
<mhpl3141592> how do you know which one is well maintained? activity or experience?
<mhpl3141592> lotuspsychje: can it be reversed? purge, unistall and healthy again :)
<lotuspsychje> mhpl3141592: it sure can, remove your ppa's, packages, and sudo apt update to make apt healthy once again
<mhpl3141592> what about: remove regolith, ppa-purge, update, upgrade?
<mesaboogie> !ppapurge | mesaboogie
<lotuspsychje> yeah bot needs a fix here
<mesaboogie> ppa-purge --help works just fine
<mhpl3141592> ppa-purge was easy and neat.
<mhpl3141592> Is there a way to have gnome less wasted space on title bars. With firefox I have multiple layers of empty bars.
<mhpl3141592> Is there a "healthy" way to configure gnome kind of like MacOS title bar? integrated in top bar
<mhpl3141592> What is the difference and role of `apt` and `apt-get`? For install I mostly use `apt install` but sometiems apt-get is used.
<guiverc> mhpl3141592, i see `apt` as a newer front-end for package tools, it's easier for common tasks & can do things `apt-get` didn't do (dpkg- type queries) however it cannot do everything, thus apt-get remains
<mhpl3141592> guiverc: That's the problem. I want a general view over the role of apt, apt-get, dpkg..
<guiverc> Well you could look at questions on support sites (https://askubuntu.com/questions/445384/what-is-the-difference-between-apt-and-apt-get shows up in a quick search), however that was mostly written for trusty/14.04 where apt has improved since then (covers more uses cases of apt-get now; covering all but rarely used cases)  the best guide would be `man` pages of course (they are more detailed for whatever release you are using)
<guiverc> dpkg installs packages, but they need to already be local (and all dependencies installed on same command or already installed).  apt-get will get (dwonload) the packages & install whatever is required (if dependency is required, it can download which dpkg cannot)
<guiverc> apt-get is like a wrapper around `dpkg` allowing dpkg to do more..  apt-get relies on dpkg to do actual install
<Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer | tomreyn
<Eickmeyer> Broken bot.
<Eickmeyer> tomreyn: Ubuntu Studio Installer is an app that can be used to add Ubuntu Studio's benefits to an existing Ubuntu (or official flavor) installation, or add additional packages. For more info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioInstaller
<Eickmeyer> tomreyn: They were using Ubuntu MATE's raspberry pi image. Also, we don't support rpis.
<tomreyn> Eickmeyer: thanks. i will *try* to remember only to send non rpi users to #ubuntustudio if you prefer this? alternatively, what i probably coule remember, i could try not sending anyone there.
<Eickmeyer> tomreyn: The biggest problem is that #ubuntustudio is pretty inactive with only two people from the same timezone (including myself) providing any support. Despite cries for people to help, we've had next to no takers.
<tomreyn> Eickmeyer: sorry to hear this. please just be aware i don't send people to the channel out of bad intentions.
<Eickmeyer> tomreyn: Oh, I know. I appreciate everything you do. :)
<tomreyn> oh thanks!
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-05-17
<newuser444467899> Does anyone really use proprietary drivers from AMD?
<Eickmeyer> newuser444467899: Except for in very specific circumstances, there's no need.
<newuser444467899> Eickmeye i have freeze after installing amdgpu-pro 20.10 on ubuntu 18.04.4hwe
<Eickmeyer> Can't help you. We don't support things brought-in from outside of the repositories.
<newuser444467899> Eickmeyer ok
<Bashing-om> newuser444467899: Just as a thought - how do you know that your card supports the -PRO overlay ?
<newuser444467899> Bashing-om i have rx560
<Eickmeyer> newuser444467899: Most AMD cards don't support the -PRO overlay. Unless it's a designated PRO card, then it doesn't work.
<newuser444467899> 1 year ago i use amdgpu-pro on ubuntu and with that rx560 and no freeze all works perfect, but now ....
<Eickmeyer> Again, it's for specific use cases. 99% of people don't have that specific use case. The pro driver offers no better performance.
<Eickmeyer> If you got it to work, awesome. We don't support it. You need to talk to AMD.
<Bashing-om> newuser444467899: Could be outdated AMD info, But: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-radpro-lin-16-40 does not show that card as -PRO supported.
<newuser444467899> Itâs a pity that I canât remember what kind of ubuntu I used then and what version of the driver I installed 1 year ago
<newuser444467899> i dont have logs in my memory haha
<Eickmeyer> AMD has a specific PRO series that does not include the RX series.
<tomreyn> i don't think there's a direct relation between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_Pro and amdgpu-pro. amd does claim that the amdgpu-pro overlay works with (at least some of?) the RX models
<newuser444467899> Of course, I could try reinstalling the versions of ubuntu and AMD pro and using the enumeration method to find a working option, but it takes a very long time
<tomreyn> this is the wrong audience for this discussion
<newuser444467899> I believe that AMD themselves do not understand what they are doing with their video cards since about 2006. I have been using cpu and video card from amd since 2001
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> morning TJ-
<TJ-> G'morning lotuspsychje
<ducasse> hiya TJ-
 * TJ- waves
