#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-19
<rocsteady> ubuntu++
<rocsteady> Also, guess wat
<rocsteady> ubuntu now has netflix on it
<rocsteady> http://www.iheartubuntu.com/
<k1l> i didnt know netflix is a that big issue.
<rocsteady> hmm
<rocsteady> I dunno.. I only use it to watch star trek
<rocsteady> & buffy the vampire slayer & angel & it crowd
<k1l> since im in europe i dont use it at all :)
<rocsteady> sometimes I watch some foreign films or documentaries
<rocsteady> What do you use in europe?
 * rocsteady has not been outside of the us yet
<k1l> i dont know if there is smth like netflix. here in germany most stations stream their films, series and documentarys for a week atleast.
<k1l> but thats mostly flash-based
<rocsteady> ah
<rocsteady> I can't wait to travel
<rocsteady> I want to know that there are other ways to live other than how it is in the us
<rocsteady> Not that it's bad here.. but I feel like my perspective is very limited.
<k1l> yes, i can understand that
<AlanBell> rocsteady: what do you watch netflix on?
<rocsteady> I haven't yet installed it cause I just recently put ubuntu on my labtop
<rocsteady> My boyfriend is the one that told me that it's available on ubuntu.. plan to try it out as soon as I get a free moment
<AlanBell> fair enough, I am just a bit puzzled about how people use films and such with computers
<AlanBell> whether they watch them on laptop screens or plug into hdmi TV and surround sound amps or whatever
<TheLordOfTime> AlanBell, depends on the setup / systems / person
<TheLordOfTime> AlanBell, i watch netflix on my laptop because if i'm dual-monitoring i/m likely (a) booted to windows and (b) gaming, which prevents netflix from having memory :P
<TheLordOfTime> Usually i dont watch Netflix and do anything else except some minor things simultaneously
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-20
<rocsteady> Hi guys/gals: I want to learn how to set up services on ubuntu 12.10.
<rocsteady> I was told that ubuntu would be the best os to use for learning how to set up servicse.
<rocsteady> My question is; do you guys have any links or docs that you're aware of with info on setting up servicse on ubuntu?
<rocsteady> I am also googling around and checking the ubuntu websites for some good docs to get me started.
<rocsteady> ACtually I found this
<bazhang> !upstart
<rocsteady> http://tinyurl.com/c6qdkfh
<ubot5> Upstart is meant to replace the old Sys V Init system with an event-driven init model.  For more information please see: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
<rocsteady> I guess I just need a service to set up that's okay for a linux and setting up services newbie
<rocsteady> ubot5: do you think upstart would be a good service to set up?
<ubot5> rocsteady: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<rocsteady> bazhang ^^
<AlanBell> rocsteady: upstart is the service manager
<AlanBell> so you probably need to write an upstart service
<AlanBell> you can see an example of one at /etc/init.d/whoopsie
<rocsteady> AlanBell: Oh okay, I will take a look as soon as I'm off work.
 * rocsteady is on windows at work :(
<rocsteady> Actually, I'll just ssh into another linux box..
 * AlanBell is on Ubuntu at work \o/
<rocsteady> wat
<rocsteady> u r lucky
<rocsteady> What do you think about systemd?
<rocsteady> http://tinyurl.com/33xknxf is what I'm reading
<rocsteady> To learn about the init daemons.
<AlanBell> systemd is probably a good thing
<AlanBell> but seeing as it came from the chap who wrote pulse audio I think it is reasonable for Ubuntu to wait until it is ready before switching to it
<rocsteady>  AlanBell | but seeing as it came from the chap    . k1l
<rocsteady>                         | who wrote pulse audio I think it is    . m4v
<rocsteady>                         | reasonable for Ubuntu to wait until it . MrChrisDruif
<rocsteady> ops
<rocsteady> sorry
<bazhang> heh
<rocsteady> I was reposting what AlanBell said about why ubuntu is going to wait to use systemd
<rocsteady> in another channel I'm in
<AlanBell> http://undacuvabrutha.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/why-ubuntu-should-continue-with-upstart-for-11-10/
<AlanBell> slightly more balanced and thought out opinion than mine :)
<AlanBell> I suspect we will end up on systemd at some point
<AlanBell> can't say I am massively excited about plumbing that low level
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-21
<rocsteady> CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:96 (TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES):
<rocsteady>   Cannot specify link libraries for target "/usr/lib/libcppunit.so" which is
<rocsteady>   not built by this project.
<rocsteady> -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
<rocsteady> ops
<rocsteady> sorry
<rocsteady> CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:96 (TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES):
<rocsteady>   Cannot specify link libraries for target "/usr/lib/libcppunit.so" which is
<rocsteady>   not built by this project.
<rocsteady> -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
<rocsteady> sorry guys.. mistake
<rocsteady> posting
<bazhang> no worries
<bazhang> could be worse, idoru could be in here
<TheLordOfTime> oh god, idoru in here would be evil
<RamchandraApte> hello
<RamchandraApte> Doesn't ubuntu have propriatery software in the repos?
<RamchandraApte> such as amnesia
<rocsteady> AlanBell: What was that link that you had about systemd?
<rocsteady> And why ubuntu is going to wait to switch to it?
<rocsteady> Could you post it one more time plz.
<k1l> 18:55:55 <        AlanBell > http://undacuvabrutha.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/why-ubuntu-should-continue-with-upstart-for-11-10/
<k1l> rocsteady: ^
<rocsteady> Thanks
<fpx> hello
<AlanBell> hello fpx
<Tm_T> ohai
 * genii-around makes a fresh pot of coffee and hands out clean mugs to everyone
<fpx> how nice
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-22
<SlitazMint> Hello.
<SlitazMint> I have an issue with fglrx in Ubuntu, I'm not sure if it a known bug or not...
<k1l> did you search launchpad.net for a related bug?
<SlitazMint> Will do.
<SlitazMint> Wow, fglrx has 171 bug reports on 12.10.
<k1l> most times when i step on a problem i try to google the lspci/lsusb line from that device and ubuntu. that will bring up some solutions. or at least users with the same problem :)
<k1l> but searching launchpad.net for the card and ubuntu version will bring up smth too. if its not there you may open a new bug. so devs willl notice that
<SlitazMint> Ubuntu Mini is very cool. I hope I find something.
<SlitazMint> If not I will open a new bug for sure.
<k1l> ubuntu mini?
<k1l> you mean the minimal install?
<SlitazMint> Ubuntu devs should really focus on working together with AMD so new users don't have this type of problems. Especially now that Steam is almost ready.
<SlitazMint> I have talked to a few people that had driver issues, so it's not just me.
<SlitazMint> Yes minimal install.
<k1l> if ubuntu mini is a spinoff pay attention to that this is not supported from ubuntu. you will need to talk to the makers from that spinoffs
<SlitazMint> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<k1l> SlitazMint: driver issues are most times issue with the manufactures not giving drivers. and that will effect all linux distributions
<SlitazMint> Not sure if it is a spinoff is it?
<k1l> no the minimal install is official
<k1l> (but there used to be a spinoff called ubuntu-mini)
<SlitazMint> k1l: In my case I had Mint 13 with AMD drivers working just fine. I even tried two driver version on it with no problems.
<SlitazMint> Mint is based on Ubuntu that is what perplexes me.
<k1l> mint doesnt care about restrictions and licenses, so they have some "advantage"
<k1l> but if you know what mint uses and works you can add that to your bugreport :)
<SlitazMint> k1l: I'm having a hard time searching for this problem in lauchpad.
<SlitazMint> I'll manage...
<k1l> well, since is after midnight here i ll leave you with that task now. bb
<SlitazMint> Bye!
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-24
<cloudrf> Xubuntu is best
<bazhang> why so
<cloudrf> actual desktop with icons
<cloudrf> lol
<bazhang> ubuntu has that
<cloudrf> i guess lubuntu probably has that too
<bazhang> learn to use the tweak tools
<cloudrf> i havent played with unity
<bazhang> seems the knowledge of Unity stopped pretty much from when it came out
<bazhang> it's changed HUGELY
<cloudrf> i did want to fiddle with gnome 3 a bit
<cloudrf> does gnome tools work for that?
<bazhang> but slashdot likes to slam Ubuntu with their lack of facts articles, so UNITY SUX
<bazhang> Unity is gnome3
<bazhang> its a shell.
<cloudrf> i know that bazhang
<bazhang> as is gnome-shell
<bazhang> so why say GNOME3
<cloudrf> as is cinammon-shell and so on
<bazhang> it's not something separate
<bazhang> gnome-shell and unity shell are both highly configurable, at least as of last weekend
<cloudrf> i right well, i like the interface of gnome 3, but would like a desktop like gnome 2
<cloudrf> last weekend?
<bazhang> perhaps they have reverted back to when slashdot said Unity sucked
<bazhang> yes last weekend
<bazhang> when I tweaked both
<cloudrf> no, listen i dont bash any desktop
<cloudrf> i just like xfce better
<bazhang> it was there by omission
<bazhang> gnome-panel is the "classic look"
<cloudrf> configurable from the start very light weight
<bazhang> and of gnome 3.8, there will be another "classic look"
<cloudrf> right on
<bazhang> s/of/as of/
<IdleOne> Don't mind bazhang. he woke up grumpy in 1993 and hasn't been right since.
<IdleOne> :P
<cloudrf> ive been a linux user since i was a kid
<cloudrf> back in 99
<bazhang> it's odd how Unity gets such bad press, but it's VERY configurable with the present tools
<bazhang> gnome-shell is much less stable
<cloudrf> i like light-weight desktop that doesnt skimp on the amount of configuration
<bazhang> the unity lenses make it truly invaluable
<bazhang> xubuntu is hardly lightweight
<bazhang> unless 4GB ram is lightweight
<cloudrf> huh?
<cloudrf> 4 gigs
<bazhang> which part was unclear
<cloudrf> i am not using 4 gigs..
<bazhang> phoronix and others matched up Unity shell with gnome against xubuntu
<bazhang> -no appreciable difference-
<cloudrf> i have 8 gigs of ram, using a total of 450 megs of ram
<bazhang> lubuntu IS lightweight
<bazhang> kde4 xfce4 gnome, not so much
<cloudrf> more light than say windblows
<bazhang> never use it, no idea
<bazhang> too complicated
<cloudrf> we are talking 4 gigs on boot
<cloudrf> at least
<bazhang> of course I try each new release from MS
<bazhang> but after a short time erase it and back to the sleekness that is UBUNTU
<bazhang> Vista was shorter than most
<cloudrf> well ive played with several distros
<cloudrf> several releases
<bazhang> I've played with the distrowatch top 100
<bazhang> every one, save 3
<cloudrf> which 3?
<bazhang> LFS
<bazhang> and two other no name ones
<cloudrf> i definately want to play with that
<bazhang> more ordeal than play
<cloudrf> not for me
<cloudrf> its fun for me
<bazhang> gentoo was the limit
<bazhang> and ARCH sucked
<cloudrf> fedora was broke
<cloudrf> i do remember that
<bazhang> which release
<cloudrf> their newest
<bazhang> 17
<cloudrf> yup
<bazhang> what was "broken"
<cloudrf> packagekit was broken
<bazhang> so use something else
<cloudrf> kept glitching out
<cloudrf> had to use terminal yum
<cloudrf> shit was waay broke
<bazhang> thats all I use with Fedora
<bazhang> awww
<bazhang> -ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation.
<cloudrf> well, was trying to find something people friendly
<cloudrf> i have to sell computers ya know
<bazhang> xubuntu is that
<bazhang> I dont like rats
<cloudrf> yes, that is why i have been selling my machines with xubuntu on them
<bazhang> nice
<cloudrf> got a brand new amd a10 5800k 3.8 ghz quad core system
<cloudrf> that i have for sale on ebay right now
<bazhang> yegads
<bazhang> bet that will run VALVE great
<cloudrf> yessir
<cloudrf> oh it has a 2tb hard drive
<bazhang> coming soon TO THE UBUNTU family
<cloudrf> 8 gigs of ram
<bazhang> and valve runs faster on Linux than on Windows
<bazhang> hahahaha
<cloudrf> the processor turbos out to 4.2 ghz by itself also
<cloudrf> forgot that little tidbit
<cloudrf> its sickeningly fast
<cloudrf> oh the price 650$
<cloudrf> 5 front usb ports, 6 rear, hdmi, desplayport, dvi, vga, optical sound, crossfires with any hd7000 series gfx card
<cloudrf> 8 channel audio
<cloudrf> it is sick!
<cloudrf> soon as steam is ready i will sell those like hotcakes
<bazhang> or faster
<cloudrf> fm2 socket systems are cheap, but quick
<bazhang> the addition of displayport is a nice touch
<cloudrf> oh yeah
<cloudrf> its the black edition processor too so its overclockable
<bazhang> nice
<cloudrf> hp, dell dont have the balls to do that
<cloudrf> for another 26$ i will add another 8 gigs of ram too
<IdleOne> cloudrf: Remember to keep it family friendly
<cloudrf> sorry
<DJones> cloudrf: I read 26$ as a 286 processor :)
<cloudrf> lol
<cloudrf> 16 gigs of ram at this point for a xfce load of linux is pointless tho
<DJones> And I hope the "lol" is at the 286 processor comment, not IdleOne's :)
<cloudrf> lol  was at 286
<cloudrf> reminds me of that pentium 3 secc i took in for scrap the other day
<cloudrf> i kept it for a sovennir
<cloudrf> i was actually trying to find a venue to sell linux machines to increase output
<cloudrf> locally i load about 15 machines a week
<IdleOne> that is pretty good
<cloudrf> i make 50 on each load i do
<IdleOne> seems a low profit margin
<cloudrf> i customize the interface to their needs and send them out with a smile
<IdleOne> but at least it is profit
<cloudrf> not everybody needs every item on the xfce taskbars
<cloudrf> some people i load extra, and some of the beginners i load less
<cloudrf> wanna get their feet wet and show them that we are not windows and we have something to offer that is better
<cloudrf> 120 people lost their jobs last week because of microsoft's windows 8 release
<cloudrf> and i am fighting back
<cloudrf> systemax plant closed
<guntbert> I am concerned about the documetation for ubuntu. I've got the impression that team is the most seriously understaffed one. Even a request "I want to help, give me a hint where to start and whom to ask" gets no reply for a long time.
<AlanBell> there is a lot to document
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/ is where the effort is going
<guntbert> AlanBell: indeed? then the issue is more serious - on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam I find no reference to that site
<guntbert> AlanBell: I was not talking about creating apps and documenting them
<guntbert> I was talking about https://help.ubuntu.com/ , both the official and the community part, bug reports get no response for a long time... - mind you I don't rant, but it looks like the issue is growing and the number of workers/volunteers is too small to handle it
<AlanBell> yeah, you are not wrong
<guntbert> AlanBell: :-)
<AlanBell> developer.ubuntu.com for the desktop and for server stuff juju.ubuntu.com
<AlanBell> that is where the platform documentation is really
<guntbert> AlanBell: are you implying that help.ubuntu.com has been abandoned?
<AlanBell> not really, it has been updated for 12.10
<guntbert> a short look at those sites doesn't give the impression that I will find what I need - juju is all about "cloud", not every server is part of one, and developer seems to be all about developing new apps - not about using the system to do ordinary work
<AlanBell> probably will be updated again for 13.04
<AlanBell> indeed, you won't find what you need on those sites, however the people that canonical is pitching the platform to probably will :)
<guntbert> AlanBell: as for the updates: look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - it ends with 11.10 with an inconsistent link to 12.04 somewhere else
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-25
<GNUHerd> Excuse me
<GNUHerd> I am not trying to be mean, to you or anyone involved with Ubuntu.
<GNUHerd> But PEOPLE DIED when a software error crashed Air France 447.
<GNUHerd> And as much as I recognize you have done nothing to me, I know the right thing is to speak up.
<GNUHerd> Even though I see the right thing to do is hurtful to others, I will not allow myself to compromise on my principles.
<GNUHerd> Read these in order.
<GNUHerd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi/+bug/562776
<GNUHerd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/863054
<GNUHerd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/708493
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 562776 in at-spi (Ubuntu) "Race condition at session startup sometimes prevents applications from being accessible" [Critical,Incomplete]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 863054 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "random login without common admin user permissions" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 708493 in openssh (Ubuntu) "Can't login anymore: Read from socket failed: Connection reset by peer" [Critical,Confirmed]
<GNUHerd> http://www2.oceantrailer.com/indexloc.html
<nikolam> Does Ubuntu plans to stick to unity? I see people migrating off it everywhere. I personally do no t get "all in one button" "applications not sorted" philosophy.
<nikolam> But I am tryong to.
<popey> yes, we're not moving off unity
<k1l_> it would be very dumb to drop unity after all that effort and acceptance for the DE, and the TV and mobile section
<popey> it also poses the question "what would we use instead"
<k1l_> most ppl will answer "gnome2!!!!!!!" which most even dont use ubuntu :/
<AlanBell> I would like to see some more harmonisation with gnome-shell
<AlanBell> but I would expect the two to remain distinct
<k1l_> and nikolam the applications are sorted. first you can go with super+a and klick on a subcategorie or there are several unity dashs which act like the gnome2-menu
<AlanBell> just little things like the top panel menus look massively better on gnome shell with the speech bubble and colours rather than the flat grey/brown stuff we have at the moment
<AlanBell> and I would expect the way workspaces work in Unity to change at some point, I don't think that is a critical part of what unity is
<nikolam> k1l_, oh yes, but user needs to click once more, on filters and filter them
<AlanBell> nikolam: not in some third party lenses
<AlanBell> there are much better ways of arranging an apps lens than the default one
<k1l_> well, most people use themes anyway (or at least the users who care about design) but the way ubuntu uses the indicators is way more logical than the gnome-shell top panel and bottom panel mixup
<AlanBell> are there themes for Ubuntu still?
<k1l_> nikolam: just because you learned the last years how you can slide your mouse through the gnome2 menu doesnt mean it is a better menu
<k1l_> AlanBell: at least i customized my unity, so there must be some themes because im a program noob myself :)
<AlanBell> I haven't really looked to be honest, I kind of assumed that most of the GTK themes wouldn't apply to the NUX layer
<nikolam> k1l_, problem is I used xfce for several years and 3 LTS. I did not even like gnome ways.
<nikolam> But willing to learn unity, to see if it is good idea.
<k1l_> i tried gnome-shell and liked that the second monitor doesnt rotate with the first monitor and loved gTile! extension
<k1l_> but it showed to me, which improvment the global-menu meant to display-space with several windows on a display.
<k1l_> i dont think that every user must love unity. but most critics just come from "i want unity to be like gnome2" which i dont understand
<nikolam> k1l_, As I am informed (not much) most critics goes to "half of unity is sending my data to third parties".
<k1l_> with alot of FUD that its not uninstallable or not unconfigurable
<nikolam> k1l_, yes. I am just trying to agains that FUD and uninstall all personal data-reporting parts from unity. To make it "behave" .
<nikolam> To see if it unity can be made user privacy friendly or not.
<AlanBell> the privacy thing is totally fixable, however they haven't done a good job of doing so yet
<nikolam> AlanBell, thing is, there are privacy switches in Unity. But it needs to be done manually, it is not transparent to the user (except thankfully it is available in legal notes page) and can not be set for the whole system, but for per-user, while happily leaking for other users.
<AlanBell> no, it doesn't work
<nikolam> someone mentioned gsettings. Maybe that can turn off all leaking parts.
<AlanBell> or rather, it is a preference setting for the default lenses
<k1l_> well, if you dont want it systemwide, you can uninstall the packages.
<nikolam> k1l_, yes. trying to. now it is how to remove video lens since I have info it does it too.
<AlanBell> sure, you can remove the lenses as a whole, but that rather negates the point of unity
<k1l_> but this paranoia and FUD leads to strange situations. we have alot of users asking why the unity dash is that "dumb" to not find recent files and folders etc. turns out they disabled zeitgeist because they read anywehere that its "evil"
<AlanBell> you don't need to remove any of the default lenses to turn off internet searching, just check the privacy box
<AlanBell> however if you have any third party lenses they won't respect that setting
<k1l_> nikolam: well. that is in the nature of a video lense. if it should find online videos it has to send information online :/
<nikolam> I love to explore new things. But seems like good ideas behind unity, can not be viewed right, behide privacy issues and FUD.
<AlanBell> yeah, lenses are a great idea, the privacy issue is mostly FUD (I really don't care at all if Amazon gets lots of searches for "gedit")
<nikolam> k1l_, I am too much frighten by sharing my data without control to see benefits of Unity.
<AlanBell> for me the botched implementation of the privacy thing is massively worse than the problem it claims to solve
<nikolam> Well I care. If I search local system, I want to know where searches go and not on internet.
<AlanBell> and you think that is what the checkbox in the privacy dialog does right?
<nikolam> I would like to add one search thing at a time, and be able to manage how it works and how privite it is. Not to "have it all running" by default.
<AlanBell> how many of these lenses do you think check for the undocumented flag and correctly don't send dash searches to the internet? http://askubuntu.com/questions/38772/what-lenses-for-unity-are-available
<nikolam> AlanBell, I supposed it disables informations from me sending to third parties.
<AlanBell> it doesn't disable anything. It sets a flag in gsettings (or somewhere) and the lenses we ship by default look for that undocumented flag and modify their behavior accordingly
<nikolam> I have no idea what unity does as a whole with my data now.
<AlanBell> so, interesting question for you. If I was to write a lens that searches intranet servers for stuff (private, internal company servers, possibly with authenticated access) should it or should it not respect the privacy flag?
<nikolam> As I see now, there are awasome lenses out there. But it is important to know what they are doing and I see no central checking point for their behavior.
<nikolam> AlanBell, that depends on user running that lense.
<nikolam> and domain usage rights. Local machine admnistrator should be setting it. If it could not be set, It goes against policies of local organisation, etc. it is complicated.
<AlanBell> so, if it respects the flag you have to send your data to amazon and canonical and flickr and youtube if you want your local business lens to work
<AlanBell> and if it doesn't respect the flag then OMG AlanBell is evil!!!11!!
<AlanBell> so I am not releasing it
<nikolam> It is complicated. needs review to all the aspects etc. Traverses over usage cases, security models, usage rights. It is all around OMG thing.
<AlanBell> yeah, it is just disappointing that the option they went for has this chilling effect
<AlanBell> it *could* be done by having a list of lenses or possibly scopes that can listen to global search queries
<AlanBell> so the user would have control of what can present results to the home lens
<nikolam> Seems like much more complicated architecture needed to get job done.
<AlanBell> slightly
<Pici> oops
<AlanBell> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-11-24
<tester> hi all, is there anyone alive that speaks English?
<tester> *native English speaker?..
<tester> oh wait... I should go offtopic
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-11-18
<YAMAMOTO> hello
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-11-20
<ubuntu_> greetings anyone here tonight?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-11-22
<doebama> hi
<william_doe> I wish major manufacturers had a no OS option they would ship with.
<william_doe> for laptops mainly
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-16
 * daftykins parts the channel, puts his feet up and grabs a beer
<pauljw> hey daftykins :)  been a day?
<OerHeks> :-)
<pauljw> :)
<OerHeks> weekend support is awesome
<daftykins> it sure has! out walking in the blustery windy island :>
<pauljw> ah...
<pauljw> was quiet here all day, daughter was visiting a girlfriend.
<daftykins> peace \o/
<pauljw> yeah
<DosTuMai> Dammit. Wish I could visit my girlfriend.
<DosTuMai> Anyways, I'm off to bed.
<OerHeks> daftykins, oh man, you miss all the fun in #ubuntu :-D
<OerHeks> g'night DosTuMai
<daftykins> i did :O
<DosTuMai> Daftykins still banned? =o
<daftykins> lol wat
<daftykins> no i just parted the channel to spare my sanity tonight
<DosTuMai> Oh. xD Maybe my brain finally dribbled out. Anyways, good luck with keeping your sanity together.
<daftykins> TJ-: mornin' o/
<TJ-> morning :)
<daftykins> what funky hours you keep sir! ;)
<TJ-> just got up :)
<TJ-> You stand need to talk! :p
 * daftykins blinks and looks at the beer can
 * cfhowlett reminds daftykins that when you stare into the beer can, the beer stares back.
<daftykins> ooh-err, and then i kill it :(
<pauljw> hi TJ- , gnite all...  :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<TJ-> morning
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks and TJ-
<OerHeks> been buzzy with hosts file, works wonderfull
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: what are you playing with?
<OerHeks> first i was looking at this https://winbeginner.com/block-facebook-hosts-file-windows-pc/ then added http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hostswin7.htm
<OerHeks> the last one is an old trusted one, but not complete, i dig further in my archives ..
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: to block kids facebook time, is your purpose?
<OerHeks> to block all facebook-crap
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: isnt there like an easy FF addon for things like that?
<OerHeks> i want to live in Belgium as they fine mark zugerflirk 250.000 per day
<OerHeks> maybe .. i don't have FF
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: ok chrome addon :p
<TJ-> OerHeks: best trick there is configure it the router to point to a host on the LAN with a web server on it, and on that web-server's root but a static capture (using wget) of the facebook log-in page, and watch folks get REALLY confused and mad at facebook being broken for so long :)
<OerHeks> oh, i usually do that with google
<OerHeks> :-
<OerHeks> D
<OerHeks> SSID "thisisnotfreeinternet"
<lotuspsychje> did FF have plans to integrated webcam? anyone tested this?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: lol
<TJ-> webRTC, yes
<wafflejock> lotuspsychje: jinx :)
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx
<lotuspsychje> not that im gonna use it :p
<lotuspsychje> sounds more like a hacker feast to me, abusing 0day webcam exploit to watch their victims
<lotuspsychje> in our country, the police received new android phones that are really exploitable...lol
<OerHeks> nom nom nom ... wikileaks ANNOUNCE: Today (Monday, EST) we release 30 hours of tapes related to a billion dollar corruption scandal with links to the White House.
<lotuspsychje> oh oh
<lotuspsychje> the world gonna shake
<lotuspsychje> finaly the top dogs to blame
<OerHeks> it is *just* a billion, lotuspsychje
<OerHeks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: that ammount is on my daily account pffft
<OerHeks> but i think it is oke, to get this in the open.
<lotuspsychje> of course unmasking the elite is always a win
<lotuspsychje> but, i wonder how much is gonna change after...
<lotuspsychje> if someone get sued, they just pay the fine and done..
<lotuspsychje> its such a dirty moneyworld
<OerHeks> "before the world becomes one califate ... it is already divided"
<OerHeks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<OerHeks> man is the beast in the animalkingdom
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> mankind live like beasts indeed
<lotuspsychje> its time the ubuntu lifestyle takes it over
<lotuspsychje> helping users with pc troubles always so much fun, you always run into personal funny stories
<lotuspsychje> morning Latrodectus
<Latrodectus> good night lotuspsychje
<Latrodectus> lotuspsychje: guess who got a job?
<Latrodectus> me ^.^
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<Guest13239> Good morning.
<Guest13239> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> wb cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> :)  yep.  Just can't get enough
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/birds-linux-6-0-is-a-distro-for-students-featuring-kde-plasma-5-4-3-496200.shtml
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, interesting , are you going to try it?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: no, just saw plasma thought it might be relevant to read :p
<BluesKaj> well, I'm a fan of kde 4 , but not the new plsama 5 on kde so much
<BluesKaj> plasma even
<lotuspsychje> i havent used kde for a long time myself :p
<BluesKaj> that's why I keep a partiiton with kubuntu 14.04 LTS as my main stable OS
<lotuspsychje> nice
<BluesKaj> plasma 5 has dropped some of my fav features and added ones I will probly never use
<BluesKaj> I'm quite disappointed in the direction Kubuntu is going
<lotuspsychje> ouch
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: will plasma be default in the future then?
<BluesKaj> it seems so, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: isnt there like a fallback or so? like gnome fallback?
<BluesKaj> my issues with plasma5 have been largely ignored by the devs
<BluesKaj> gnome doesn't have the features I like in kde4
<cfhowlett> BluesKaj, my sense is that there is an unhealthy amount of internal chaos on that project ...
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: no i mean a kde-style fallback to install if you dont like plasma
<BluesKaj> cfhowlett, there was, but it 's settled down for the time being
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I wish that was true, i'd install kde4/plasma4 immediately if I could on 15.10 or even 16.04
<lotuspsychje> !info plasma xenial
<ubot5`> Package plasma does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> !info plasma
<ubot5`> Package plasma does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> !info plasma4
<ubot5`> Package plasma4 does not exist in vivid
<BluesKaj> bot is incorrect
<lotuspsychje> hmmz
<lotuspsychje> got wrong packagename perhaps
<lotuspsychje> !info kde-plasma-desktop
<ubot5`> Package kde-plasma-desktop does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> !info kubuntu-desktop
<ubot5`> kubuntu-desktop (source: kubuntu-meta): Kubuntu Plasma Desktop/Netbook system. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.323 (vivid), package size 4 kB, installed size 58 kB
<lotuspsychje> its part of the kubuntu desktop?
<lotuspsychje> brb
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, yup
<BluesKaj> brb as well
<BluesKaj> switched back to 14.04, so I can stop complaining :-)
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: :p
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: maybe xenial will have nice plasma features?
<BluesKaj> I miss the different wallpapers for each virtual desktop on plasma 5
<lotuspsychje> maybe TJ- knows a trick for that, he's on kde also if i recall
<BluesKaj> it would be nice to run kde 4/plasma 4 on the newer releases , but I think most of the "improvements" are to the desktop and it's new look and so called features , otherwise there's not much difference in terms od real usage
<BluesKaj> od=of
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i see
<BluesKaj> in other words plasma 5 is mostly cosmetic in my experience
<lotuspsychje> it all changed alot
<lotuspsychje> !info kubuntu-desktop xenial
<ubot5`> kubuntu-desktop (source: kubuntu-meta): Kubuntu Plasma Desktop/Netbook system. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.331 (xenial), package size 3 kB, installed size 40 kB
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: did you notice changes on the xenial one?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, so far not many changes vs Wily, but it's still early in the game.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, pic of bug 1463112 http://imgur.com/qQXwGyj
<ubot5`> bug 1463112 in unity (Ubuntu) "Cat sitting on keyboard crashes lightdm" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1463112
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hehe: http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-team-needs-a-cat-to-replicate-important-bug-496205.shtml
<OerHeks> jups, wastrel is under siege for this pic :-D
<cfhowlett> oh, the picture just makes it PURRfect!
 * OerHeks thinks it is a selfie
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/art/BSDBox-with-Plank-572375842
<lotuspsychje> pretty nice that plank
<BluesKaj> gotta reboot ..new kernel version
<lotuspsychje> ok
<daftykins> i wondered why #ubuntu was so quiet, helps when you're in there...
<OerHeks>  /ignore *
<OerHeks> hihi
<daftykins> :D hallo! how's OerHeks today?
<OerHeks> Fine, did some household duties, now finishing my coffee and go for a walk to the store, food-hunt.
<OerHeks> And about you ?
<daftykins> sounds good! yeah just recovering from a long ride yesterday
<daftykins> i was meant to do another today but i felt pretty lethargic so i got out of it :)
<daftykins> carried on with my email support issue instead, weird one where a client couldn't receive or send from some domains
<OerHeks> Snow is comming, so use these last soft days to go out :-)
<BluesKaj> supposedly going to have a mild winter here in Ontario Canada, we could use one after the last 2 arctic blasts
<daftykins> :)
<OerHeks> Yay, fresh dogfood
<daftykins> OerHeks: tough times eh? ;)
<OerHeks> No, having guests ... ow wait
<daftykins> but that *is* the guests! :)
<OerHeks> got the 2 chihuahuas from my mom here, they really like Drabbers treats.
<OerHeks> eating out is always better, you know
<OerHeks> "neighbours grass is greener" ( funny translated dutch saying)
<daftykins> hehehe
<Latrodectus> there should be an entry for ubotu to not use enter as a punctuation...
<Latrodectus> something like "!enter -> Please stop using enter as a punctuation mark"
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-17
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<OerHeks> hi pauljw
<Bashing-om> pauljw: o/ , been slow but picking up now .
<pauljw> hey OerHeks
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> been seeing several unfamiliar helpers today.
<Bashing-om> pauljw: Yeah, The quality has been commendable .
<pauljw> seem to be holding their own.
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: The big 'E" has arrived .. Good for us !
<EriC^^> :)
<EriC^^> how are you Bashing-om ?
<Bashing-om> Fair .. considering .. Waiting on sumpthin to happen I can handle . How is your world ?
<EriC^^> i'm ok
<EriC^^> was sleeping and woke up to a thunderstorm, they're rare here
<EriC^^> it's one lightning after another like a stroboscope outside O.o
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Times like that I know to shut the systems down and unplug ! Lightening is unforgiving too .
<EriC^^> that's a good idea
<EriC^^> i'll remove them
<Bashing-om> I live at the top of a mountain ... highest point .. lighteneing has done a number here more than just once !
<EriC^^> i see
<EriC^^> i've removed everything from electricity
<EriC^^> i imagine in the morning "why is everything not turning on? wtf?"
<EriC^^> lol and i'm in my sleep and cussing is going on in the house
<Bashing-om> Hah ! Better bleary eyed and catching up that spending big bucks replaceing hardware .
<EriC^^> yeah :D
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: ya ninja's me with BlastRed . Fast on the fingers huh ?
<EriC^^> what's his issue?
<Bashing-om> sorta unknown .. I "think" He is working from a bad bad - what he thinks is a liveDVD - to install to the hard drive  .
<EriC^^> i see
<OerHeks> postfix configuration for the harddrive ...
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> new toys! https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rj9p21r6jowb4o7/AACkI5b027SctsMRNppGZLfOa?dl=0
<daftykins> Â£160 27" HannsG 2560x1440 IPS LCD arrived :)
<lordievader> 2560x1440 is nice :)
<daftykins> not for me, just ordered in for someone... but nice to see
<daftykins> it was even a hassle getting it to display over HDMI correctly on Windows ;)
<lordievader> I like having lots of screen estate.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> hallo o/
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<daftykins> TJ-: heya o/
<TJ-> Evening :)
<OerHeks> :-)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6vgbr5ix7pqj459/IMG_20151117_171517.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> still playing with this 27" thing :)
<daftykins> hmm i forget TJ- can't view those links without hassle!
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/lcd.jpg
<daftykins> there's a tad more sane version
<TJ-> It amazes me; an organisation depends on another externally controlled server for its core product - in this case ajax.googleapis.com
<daftykins> mmm that's annoying
<daftykins> some have sworn off dropbox because that ex-government person Condoleeza Rice is on their exec board o0
<TJ-> looks like the larger monitor ought to be above the other 2 :)
<daftykins> can't say i saw a reason there though
<daftykins> haha, well i bought this in for a client y'see, so it's just getting 'testing' right now
<daftykins> amusingly only my desktop can drive this 27" with its' native 2560x1440, and even then only if i turn off one of my two
<TJ-> I generally won't use any service that depends on external servers - shows the directors have no concept of controlling their quality and core value
<TJ-> is the GPU capable of driving more than 2 heads at once?
<daftykins> nope
<TJ-> many only have 2 outputs at once
<daftykins> only two TMDS signal converters on-die
<TJ-> right. That's why I have the Quadro with dual GPUs, to drive 4 heads
<daftykins> makes me laugh this panel came with VGA, since that can't drive >2048x1536 iirc
<TJ-> analog can get some very high resolutions, more than some digital outputs
<daftykins> RAMDACs used to be limited to the 2048 res though, or maybe more so the VGA cable MHz rating? *shrug*
<daftykins> i've not tried VGA, could be fun for a laugh
<TJ-> RAMDAC frequencies was the top limit, but bad cables could cause some terrible crosstalk and ghosting/wobble
<daftykins> it's funny that i've owned these Dell 2408 LCDs since 2008, with all the inputs under the sun, yet still haven't owned anything with displayport to make use of it :)
<daftykins> old v1.1 though it is
<TJ-> I've got the U2412 and the same; but what I like is they take 12V DC input
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> http://vrworld.com/2015/11/16/nvidia-unveils-pascal-gpu-16gb-of-memory-1tbs-bandwidth/
<daftykins> ooh nvidia's stab at HBM tech
<TJ-> trying to rsync 64GB from android phone over MTP; looks like it'll take a few days!
<daftykins> ugh
<daftykins> even on Windows when i've done backups of phones before wiping, it takes forever just counting the data before a copy starts
<daftykins> ooh i'm getting a free LG Nexus 5 soon, it has a smashed screen but i ordered one from Hong Kong on ebay for Â£26 :)
<TJ-> Good plan
<daftykins> hope it works out, 'official' LCDs with digitizer and panel etc are listed for more like Â£90
<daftykins> if only Elementary didn't exist :)
<Bashing-om> elementry is close, but no chocolate chip cookies !
<daftykins> that's true
<daftykins> OerHeks: i'm not sure that WMV or WMA have to have DRM, i think they can be without too, no?
<OerHeks> Yes, with and without
<OerHeks> themes problems should be top priority, guys.
<OerHeks> we are losing 1000+ users per hour
<daftykins> :D
 * daftykins sings whilst doing maintenance
<OerHeks> that game0 dude is annoying, earlier in #ubuntu-touch he was insulting volunteers, but they have a policy to be nice,not ban.
<daftykins> mmm i wasn't very impressed with the things being said
<OerHeks> daftykins, it is your fault that his celeron is slow.
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> man, some don't want help
<daftykins> maybe if i give it a cookie?
<daftykins> just because it came from Vista era though, it shouldn't be slow :/
<daftykins> maybe it has a faulty hard disk / shouldn't be running unity
<OerHeks> celeron single core perhaps
<daftykins> yeah, low cache celeron + low RAM = swap++
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-18
<pauljw> biab
<daftykins> never did like HackerII, so the defamatory comments make sense
<OerHeks> daftykins, 8 GBP is about â¬ 12 ?? http://www.staples.nl/usb-sticks/cbs/5893476.html
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> yeah that's the exact set :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kyjytcbwy2mmps8/IMG_20151109_181205.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> another evil dropbox link
<OerHeks> 8 gbp is cheaper than with us ...
<OerHeks> still, very cheap for this offer.
<daftykins> this user is high maintenance :P
<daftykins> i still haven't tested 2 actually
 * daftykins plugs in
<TJ-> *almost* ready to reinstall android OS on the dumbPDA
<daftykins> PDA o0
<TJ-> I refuse to call them 'smart' or 'phones' since they're generall neither!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> high school educated!
<TJ-> This thing embarassed me today, left me stranded whilst viewing property.
<daftykins> doh :(
<daftykins> hopefully i will obtain that Nexus 5 soon and get to operate on it 8)
<TJ-> This is an HTC One M8, Cyanogenmod on it, but it runs out of space continuously and started behaving strangely. High pitched growl/buzz instead of speaker sounds randomly happen, or messages/calls are not received
<TJ-> So, I'm backing up the SD-Cardd (32G) and internal (16G) onto the PC and wiping it to let the wear levelling and bad-block recovery have a chance, then installing afresh
<daftykins> ah no way, i have one of those from my mum to sell
<daftykins> i'm gonna head off for a film and then sleep, g'night \o
<TJ-> The device is nice, it's the way Android never handles the situation properly... warns space is running out at 5% ... doesn't say "I'm silently discarding this data/event without the app even knowing about it or telling you"
<daftykins> mmm, i've heard android compared to windows for the slowly self-mutilating approach :D
<TJ-> I blamed my large collection of audiobooks but it turned out it wasn't those at all, it was loads of hidden files being silently cached over lots of applications. Not sure if thats an app-design thing or a 'feature' of Android core
<daftykins> ah yes, that's a one tap clear :)
<TJ-> These weren't files the App Manager's Clear Cache cleared, though
<daftykins> oh even weirder then
<TJ-> It'll take me some time to go through the backups to understand what it all is, but I needed it off the device so I can get it working reliably again
<daftykins> at least it's not that awful stock ROM \o/
<daftykins> i don't like how HTC make their android versions look, or function... or anything :D
<TJ-> I prefer as close to AOSP as possible, but cyanogenmod takes a lot of the additional work out of the job. I use Racoon instead of installing Gapps so there's no Google spyware/phone-home/play-store on it
<TJ-> So I have Racoon on the desktop with a throw-away Google account on play store
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<TJ-> urgh! :D
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: hi there
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-xenial-xerus-to-be-rebased-on-linux-kernel-4-3-soon-496327.shtml
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: saw the mailing list, where can i vote for you?
<cfhowlett> ??? eh, whot?
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: vote for you as @
<lotuspsychje> your on the list right?
<cfhowlett> which list would that be?
<lotuspsychje> holdon ill pastebin the mail
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13326614/
<lotuspsychje> im member of the irc ubuntu mailing list
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, that's why I didn't see this!  I'm not on that list.
<cfhowlett> but yeah, I do remember applying or the ubuntustudio list.  never heard anything of it
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: want me to reply him i vote for you?
 * cfhowlett blushes
<cfhowlett> if you feel I'm so deserving, why yes!
<lotuspsychje> ok here goes
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: voted :p
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-10-to-have-unity-8-mir-and-snappy-personal-as-default-496340.shtml
<cfhowlett> didn't I read somewhere that UDS in person was coming back?
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: who's uds?
<cfhowlett> Ubuntu Developer Summit
<lotuspsychje> ah yeah, read an article about that, not sure where anymore
<lotuspsychje> maybe insights.ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<lotuspsychje> NSFW: https://webchat.anonops.com/?channels=OpParis
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, ??
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: related to isis vs anonymous
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/ .. sleep apnia ?
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om 20h37 here :p
<Bashing-om> Well, then it is a good evening .
<lotuspsychje> yeah :p
<OerHeks> hi lotus & Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks how are you
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Looks like I am settled in and caught up on the channel . Let's see what we can learn today !
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/11/17/magicstick-and-ubuntu-core-redefining-the-pc-on-stick-experience/
<lotuspsychje> nice idea on a tv
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: UHHHhh .. The times they are achange'n ! .. All that from the comfort of the sofa !
<lotuspsychje> yea :p
<OerHeks> ugh, another hdmi device, big thing hanging on your connector.
<OerHeks> without extentioncord, i would not risc it :-(
<lotuspsychje> :p
<OerHeks> did you get OTA-8 today ?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: not yet : (
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: might be tomorrow
<lotuspsychje> it was late on ota7 last time also
<OerHeks> oh oke
<MonkeyDust> installed MacBuntu, with a ppa in a vm... have to admit, it's beautiful
<OerHeks> :-)
 * OerHeks facepalms..lonely people find the largest channels to make fun
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i have to admit i kinda pushed that guy a bit further so he'd get himself kicked
<OerHeks> Octavius - zero0 ...
<daftykins> mmm
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-19
<OerHeks> my desktop https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/mybackground.png this happening 4 years ago
<daftykins> puppies!
<OerHeks> Jups, there were 8, but all i have now is the smallest one
<daftykins> you know what they say about picking the runt of the litter! :)
<OerHeks> spread your 2 hands together, and you'll have the size of the bunch
<OerHeks> picking the runt of the litter, let me bing it..
<OerHeks> oh, oke
<OerHeks> He was the smallest one, but so lightweight, he could get on top and get the fattest milk
<OerHeks> His eyes squint, but that is no problem, except if he runs off..
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> one way to keep him with me :-)
<ki7mt> daftykins, While you guys may not agree with what I said, it's function / method is used by many developers to test the very thing(s) you all said were unwise.  The guy was running a short term support release, that in itself is "unwsie" for a production environment.
<daftykins> ki7mt: that wasn't even vaguely the original query, you seem to be having a seriously hard time accepting being told you were wrong
<OerHeks> True, for production i would choose lts over cutting edge .. but he was asking earlier howto upgrade to the latest.
<ki7mt> I dont have a problem with that at all, but, what I said, in fact, is not wrong. It is a method, all bit, know the risks.
<daftykins> ki7mt: yes but for the second god damn time, you didn't SHARE the risks.
<daftykins> and no it was 100% ridiculous that you even brought it up
<ki7mt> God doesn't have anything to do with it, so dont take his name in vain please. So your requirment is, if there's a risk in any recommendation, we " those providing a suggestion", should make them agree to a risk statement before hand .. LOL ..
<ki7mt> that channel would cease to exist on that basis.
<OerHeks> It is not only the person who we talk too, many find solutions in the logs too. or read it with us.
<daftykins> this isn't a place for any daft religious commentary
<daftykins> ki7mt: it's a lot simpler, stop giving bad advice - can we move on now instead of having you get hung up for hours on a single query?
<ki7mt> They find them all over the web too, like roll your own kernel, but they don't write "Danger Will Robinson" all of the top of the WIKI page do they.
<daftykins> once again you're not even comparing apples to apples, that is some seriously poor logic
<daftykins> we weren't talking about something being obtained from a third party.
<ki7mt> what third party, how did that enter the picture?
<daftykins> when you just mentioned someone rolling their own kernel
<daftykins> that was totally miles away from the persons original query
<ki7mt> In response too: "It is not only the person who we talk too, many find solutions in the logs too. or read it with us." I didn't bring it up, your did.
<OerHeks> i did.
<ki7mt> his original query was well understood.
<daftykins> use a nick so we know who you're talking to, then
<daftykins> look, just drop it will you? and don't advise pinning again when it ruins security
<ki7mt> I will drop it, but what I wont drop is being told my answer was wrong, when in every bases of fact, what I was., was a viable solution. It's just your option, which your entitled too, that it should not be done that way, does not make the solution wrong.
<ki7mt> s/ wat it was/g
<OerHeks> ki7mt, big issue is: ubuntu switches to SystemD .. and skipping a release, well, i am not sure it is going to be oke
<OerHeks> it might be, but i am not going to test that.
<ki7mt> OerHeks, Yes, that may very well cause a problem.
<daftykins> it was not viable whatsoever.
<ki7mt> Option again.
<ki7mt> prove it.
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: the_count Be aware he is a 15 year old, but pretty sharp .
<daftykins> it doesn't need proving, you told someone to enact a process that meant they'd never get newer kernel versions (minor versions, the two digits following the major version)
<daftykins> ki7mt: i genuinely do not understand what major malfunction is preventing you from seeing blatant fact.
<ki7mt> "Never" thats wrong completely wrong.
<daftykins> bullshit.
<ki7mt> All one has to do is remove the lock.
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, wish i was 15 .. any show will give me a job :-D
<daftykins> oh my word every successive comment from you is more retarded than the last
<OerHeks> show-shop
<daftykins> i'm done with this topic. stop spewing nonsense.
<ki7mt> Now my comments are retarded, because but your statement was completely wrong.
<daftykins> well if you're going to be really childish and take apart sentences word for word, then yeah - we're done.
<ki7mt> So, I'm wrong because I dont wave a rad flag before a suggestion, I'm wrong because it's a risk, Im wrong becasue you dont like the method, and in case your wrong about package holding.
<daftykins> stating that a condition changes when you undo the action, is basic logic
<daftykins> i've already made my point, you shouldn't still be struggling at this
<daftykins> now try and detach your emotions from computing tasks, they don't belong here
<ki7mt> Oh, fear not, Im not struggling wiht this at all.
<ki7mt> now your saying I'm being guided by emotions?
<daftykins> you're ignored now. go spew nonsense somewhere else
<ki7mt> good thank you.\
<Ben64> you were wrong because you're wrong
<ki7mt> This is too funny.
<Ben64> your suggestion amounted to "disable security updates"
<Ben64> for absolutely no reason
<ki7mt> Agreed.
<ki7mt> whoops, not for no reason.
<Ben64> yes for no reason
<ki7mt> that' doesn't make it wrong.
<Ben64> it sure does
<ki7mt> holding any packages doe that.
<Ben64> Nov 18 2015 15:41:42 <ki7mt>	n8s, If you have a kernel you like, putting a hold on the package is one way to ensure it sticky
<Ben64> very dumb
<daftykins> *nod*
<ki7mt> Yes, exactly, "one way"
<Ben64> the dumbest way
<ki7mt> Option.
<Ben64> because normal updates don't change the kernel
<ki7mt> Agreed.
<Ben64> so its pointless, and not secure and stupid
<ki7mt> More options ==> Stupid
<ki7mt> And it's not pointless.
<Ben64> it absolutely is pointless
<ki7mt> So whats is the point of holding a package then?
<Ben64> don't get security updates for your kernel because...?
<ki7mt> Again, what is the point of holding a package?
<Ben64> so your argument is basically "why do knives have sharp edges unless they're made to stab people"
<ki7mt> No, I'd like you to answer the question, what is the point or purpose of holding a package?
<Ben64> not for holding kernels because you "like it"
<ki7mt> Oh, so, the hold function does not work for kernel packages, everything but?
<Ben64> again, the knife argument
<Ben64> obviously knives can be used to stab people, that means you must do it!
<ki7mt> It's there to use as one sees fit, if you don't like it, don't use it, that doesn't make it wrong to use.
<Ben64> using it improperly is wrong
 * daftykins chuckles
<OerHeks> bleeeh .. IT IS WRONG! and against the ubuntu policy, we need to keep a line here
<ki7mt> lol . yeah that's funny, where doe it say not to use this on certain files.
<Ben64> just like stabbing someone is wrong
<Ben64> its a tool, just like a knife
<Ben64> suggesting that someone hold a kernel package is a terrible idea, even more terrible when you don't explain the ramifications of doing so
<ki7mt> I dont care about knives dude, we're talkign about the usage of or not, the package hold function. You guys are telling me tis' wrong to use on a kernel, but the same argument could eb said oof any package could it not?
<Ben64> yes
<ki7mt> Thank You !
<Ben64> you shouldn't hold any packages
<ki7mt> sit is wsie to use, weight the risks oneself.
<ki7mt> is it wise ..
<Ben64> except you didn't explain anything
<Ben64> you made the stupid suggestion that someone hold a kernel if "they like it"
<ki7mt> You shoudl Hold Packages, "IF" you dont know what your doing with the hold.
<Ben64> theres no point, you have no point
<ki7mt> Sorry Should Not hold
<Ben64> which you didn't explain at all
<daftykins> batshit insane factor rising...
<ki7mt> And I agreed to as much.
<Ben64> yet you still argue that you have a damn point
<Ben64> you've yet to explain more than "liking" a package the reason to hold it
<ki7mt> I have a "valid" point, and I said, weigh the risks, but, it doesn't make the method "wrong"
<Ben64> it does make the method wrong
<Ben64> what problem does it solve, what problems does it create?
<Ben64> solves nothing, creates security issues
<Ben64> therefore, it's not a solution, its a problem
<ki7mt> And Ive asked how that is, and all I get back ins "security this, security that"
<OerHeks> WoW runs in Syria, Assasins Creed in Palestina and FallOut in Fukushima .. what gameconsoleshould i ask for xmas?
<Ben64> OerHeks: ps4
<daftykins> ki7mt: because security matters, surprise surprise.
<ki7mt> Your kidding right? So does using a short term release of software, does that mean you shouldn't use it.
<Ben64> what do you mean by "short term release of software"
<ki7mt> In this context, you'd have to say yes, because it's a security risk
<ki7mt> short term == not longer being updated
<ki7mt> no longer
<daftykins> once again you keep moving the topic about to take the focus off the mistake you made
<ki7mt> Whatever bug were there, are there
<Ben64> non sequitur
<ki7mt> Im not moving the topic at all,
<Ben64> you completely did
<Ben64> pinning a package is ok because sometimes people run unsupported releases?
<ki7mt> you said, don't do it because of security risks
<Ben64> complete non sequitur
<ki7mt> Your putting, and I dont disagree here, security above all else. But, there are times when a risk is needed to deal with a problem.
<Ben64> no
<daftykins> i think you need to learn to let this one go.
<Ben64> and still you haven't ever explained this magical problem that requires you to pin a kernel
<ki7mt> however, the person creating the risk needs to understand that risk, "which did not fully disclose"  on that count, guilty as charged.
<ki7mt> lol .. daftykins you need to stop telling people what to do, because your really bad at it.
<ki7mt> Ben64, I don't have a "magical" problem that needs solving.
<daftykins> ki7mt: at least i back down when i'm told my advice is wrong - and don't blather on about the same thing for an hour after it happens.
<daftykins> :)
<Ben64> ki7mt: so don't suggest a stupid answer to your non-existent problem
<ki7mt> Ben64, I didn't, he wanted to stay on a specific kernel version, what was it.
<ki7mt> that was it
<Ben64> which already happens in ubuntu without doing anything silly
<ki7mt> I merely said pin it, and the walls of hell opened up, OMG, you cant pin a kernal blah blah blah .. LMAO
<Ben64> yeah, because you're wrong
<ki7mt> how
<Ben64> learn from it
<ki7mt> I woiiuld if you tell me how it was wrong,
<Ben64> i just did
<ki7mt> You all said, its wrong becasue of security ? is that right?
<Ben64> Nov 18 2015 17:13:46 <Ben64>	which already happens in ubuntu without doing anything silly
<Ben64> kernel versions don't change on a release of ubuntu
<daftykins> ki7mt: 3 of us have said over and over it was wrong, grow up and accept it.
<ki7mt> daftykins, I thought you ignored me, please do that.
<ki7mt> Ben64, If the package name, number whatever, changes, is that not a version change ?
<Ben64> linux-image-3.13.0-27-generic
<Ben64> linux-image-3.13.0-68-generic
<ki7mt> kernel series, yes, I agree, 3.18, 3.19 whatever that would eb the series.
<Ben64> same version
<daftykins> i think there's a screw loose or medication situation here :(
<ki7mt> It's the same versies ( your calling version), the package is different is it not?
<ki7mt> same series
<Ben64> 3.13.0 is the kernel
 * daftykins chuckles
<ki7mt> yes, no what is 3.13.1
<ki7mt> A different PACKAGE !!!!!!!!!!1
<ki7mt> get it
<Ben64> correct, but i didn't say 3.13.1 ever
<ki7mt> that was an example.
<Ben64> because the version doesn't change
<Ben64> yeah a bad example
<ki7mt> Agreed, the "version" does nto, but the package does.
<Ben64> so you agree the version doesn't change
<ki7mt> and when I freeze that "Package" thats it, that what I want, and it should stay there.
<Ben64> why do you want that
<ki7mt> yes, the version, as in 3.18 series kernel does not, as the patches, unless Im mistaked are applied to that Kernel Version or series.
<Ben64> Nov 18 2015 17:13:06 <ki7mt>	Ben64, I didn't, he wanted to stay on a specific kernel version, what was it.
<Ben64> so again, the version doesn't change
<Ben64> want to stay on the same version
<Ben64> solution = update normally
<ki7mt> from my perspective, anythign that changes in the "Package" i is a change, be the series kerenl itself or not.
<Ben64> well you're wrong again
<ki7mt> BS
<Ben64> and you have no reason for any of this
<Ben64> i've tried to extract the dumb reasoning out of your head, but it's too damn thick
<ki7mt> The reason can be anything, I dont have a specific use case, I just provided an example.
<Ben64> the reason can't be anything
<ki7mt> agreed, if we're being pedantic here, anything is not true.
<Ben64> you can't provide any reason to pin a kernel package
<Ben64> so there is no reason to suggest it
<ki7mt> Sure I can. Becasue "I Want To" that's a reason; good one, no, but it's a reason.
<Ben64> no reason to suggest it to anyone else
<ki7mt> Or, I dont want the package to change at all, for any reason.
<Ben64> you can be as dumb as you want, don't bring others down with you
<ki7mt> Oh, now Im dumb?
<Ben64> your actions and reasons are dumb
<ki7mt> If he eantes to stay on s specif package, pin it, thats the purpose of the function is it not, It's up the the person "hwy" they want to stay on it, not my responsibility to "extract" his reasoning for doign something.
<Ben64> don't suggest it anyway
<ki7mt> Your wrong again. I gave no reason for doing it, other than it's a plausible method, that is not dumb.
<Ben64> it is very dumb
<ki7mt> it's a simple means to an end, period.
<Ben64> it's not
<ki7mt> That's an opinion.
<Ben64> nope
<ki7mt> does pinning the package not work?
<ki7mt> does it not prevent it from being upgraded ?
<Ben64> whats the reason
<ki7mt> I dont care about the reason, we're taking about the action.
<Ben64> the kernel version does not change in any version of ubuntu for a good reason
<Ben64> theres absolutely no reason to ever pin it
<ki7mt> does it not work == Yes It Does, therefore, a means to an end == True.
<ki7mt> You say there's no reason, that's an opinion.
<Ben64> its a fact
<ki7mt> and it's yours, your entitled to it.
<Ben64> the burden of proof is on you
<Ben64> and you can't provide anything other than "i want to"
<Ben64> which is stupid
<ki7mt> Wrong again, I dont have a reason for doing it, Im merely saying, that is works.
<ki7mt> Stupid == Another opinion.
<Ben64> nobody ever argued that it didn't work
<ki7mt> and its yuors.
<Ben64> the point is it is stupid
<ki7mt> Yes, but everyone sure screamed bloddy murder about security .. well news flash, if you freeze a package, you take that risk.
<Ben64> for no reason
<Ben64> = stupid
<ki7mt> Again, Your opinion.
<Ben64> you have no reason, you've provided no reason, there is no reason
<ki7mt> Other, may or may not agree
<ki7mt> Dude, what part of this dont you understand, "I Dont Have A Need To Pin A Package" .. I merely stated that would freeze the stupid kernel package.
<Ben64> theres no reason to do so, and no reason to suggest someone do that
<ki7mt> And you just agreed that it would/
<ki7mt> No reason == Your Opinion agian.
<daftykins> this looks like a bad nickname o0
<daftykins> or just silly :D
<Ben64> i've asked many times why that would be valid solution and you couldn't provide anything
<ki7mt> You see no reason, that does mot me the rest of the world may not have one.
<Ben64> so there is no reason
<ki7mt> does not mean
<Ben64> it certainly didn't solve the person's problem in #ubuntu
<Ben64> don't suggest it
<ki7mt> That may be a better criticism, while it was an option, it may not have solved his problem or need.
<Ben64> go pin all the packages you want, just don't tell others to
<Ben64> its not an option
<Ben64> it only causes problems
<ki7mt> Dont tell me what to do, you dont own me.
<Ben64> a support channel is for support, you did the opposite of that
<Ben64> i'll do whatever i want
<ki7mt> YOu can try.
<Ben64> i'll succeed
<ki7mt> I've not tolkd you what to do, not called you names, have I?
<daftykins> you should, by your own morals, want to adopt sense and not mislead users if you're ever going to field questions again
<Ben64> i haven't called you names either, just called your ideas names
<Ben64> which by all accounts, are stupid ideas
<ki7mt> Ben64, I don't think So, I've done "Nothing" against the rules.
<Ben64> !behelpful
<ubot5> As our !guidelines say, "When helping, be helpful". If you're not familiar with the issue at hand, let someone else handle it instead of making !offtopic comments or jokes.
<Ben64> you weren't helpful
<ki7mt> And you can prove I intentionally mislead this person or tried to do somethind "Bad" here? The only bad being done here, is the way you've all spoken  in general, to me personally.
<Ben64> the goal was to have you see that it was bad advice
<ki7mt> ANd you can prove my intention, was not to be helpful ?
<Ben64> which you seem to refuse to accept
<ki7mt> That's just wrong, did you look at the conversation he and I had just priror to you all jumping down my throoat?
<ki7mt> Of course not
<Ben64> i did
<ki7mt> ANd I was not trying to be helpful there?
<ki7mt> and that was bad advise to recommend LTS over a short term support version for "production" ?
<Ben64> we only took issue with you saying to hold a kernel package
<ki7mt> Oh, Im well aware of what you all took issue with.
<ki7mt> Well let me tell you something ...
<Ben64> i don't know why you're bringing other stuff up then
<ki7mt> I've called named, belittled, defaced, just a name a few adjectives, and it's all being logged.
<daftykins> it's definitely just being taken way too personally this
<ki7mt> Im pissed off at the matter in which you all treated me in this situation, when "In Fact" what I stated was true and would stop that kernel from being updated. Best choice, no, I didn't say it was.
<ki7mt> s/matter/manner/g
<Ben64> again, there is no reason to prevent kernel updates
<daftykins> pretty sad really
<ki7mt> yeah, you are pretty sad daftykins
<ki7mt> Ben64, You say there's no reason.
<daftykins> no, i've done nothing but honourable things :) you're the one crying over being told you were wrong
<ki7mt> I may say there's no reason, but it's a "Fact" we dont speak foreveryone, we're not god m8, newsflash.
<Ben64> ki7mt: give a reason then? a problem that would be solved by cutting off kernel updates?
<ki7mt> Ben64, Im not going down your rabbit hole again, what said was true, and factual, certainly no misleading, and was intended to be helpful. You all got nasty with me, and that pissed me off.
<ki7mt> daftykins, See, I'm not crying about anything, but you may be beofore it all over.
<Ben64> I didn't get nasty at any point. What you said was incorrect, ignored the effects of that action. It may have been intended to be helpful but it wasn't helpful at all. Please learn from this
<daftykins> s/nasty/correcting bad advice/
<daftykins> ki7mt: oh with laughter as you carry on? you may well be right there :)
<ki7mt> daftykins, No, that's not the issue at all, it's your attitude, to others, I can't do anything about, but when directed toward me, I can, and certainly will. Do bare than in mind.
<Ben64> you need to stop taking stuff so personally
<Ben64> daftykins and I have had our differences, but I'm not holding a grudge, I hope daftykins isn't either
<ki7mt> There you go again, telling me what I need to do, stop, you've not Idea what I need or do not need.
<ki7mt> If I am wrong, so bit, I've admitted as much in the channel many time.
<daftykins> Ben64: nah, i respect your advice giving - i've definitely been an ass to you at times, in fact i've never apologised for that!
<ki7mt> But I've never attacked anyone in the channel, or elswhere in IRC for that matter.
<daftykins> we're always going to point out those giving bad advice, because the #1 thing is doing right by the user, so you're just going to need to deal with that
<Ben64> any suggestion that compromises security is definitely going to get a negative response
<ki7mt> Ben64, I supposed it's all a matter of perspective, and in this case, it's my perspective, you've no leverage there, and to me, there are many comments that were / are uncalled for, and just plain indescent.
<ki7mt> Ben64, Because that's important to "YOU" .. dont put your prejudice on others.
<Ben64> don't tell me what to do!
<ki7mt> How do you like it?
<Ben64> i was joking, i don't care what someone says to me
<ki7mt> Im not
<ki7mt> and I do care what others say to me.
<Ben64> but really, a support channel is about support. give bad support, you better be able to deal with the backlash
<Ben64> the easy way is to not give bad support
<ki7mt> How old are you oif I may ask?
<Ben64> doesn't matter
<ki7mt> whoos, old
<ki7mt> Sure it does
<ki7mt> Ok, different tac, what was the first Kernel version you ever used.
<Ben64> not sure how thats relevant
<ki7mt> Sure it is, your telling me, that I need tolearn how to deal with support and it's pro / cons yes?
<Ben64> I'm saying don't give bad support. what kernel version I started with doesn't matter for that
<ki7mt> Your picking up on the the message here, it's not what you say, it's how you say it!
<ki7mt> LOL Your Not Picking up
<Ben64> you didn't pick up that what you said was bad advice
<ki7mt> If you ahve a better idea, better method, state the method, and put it to your self, as is, it's what you'd do, as smashing other people, be them right or wrong, is bad customer service in anyones book.
<Ben64> the "customers" would be the people wanting help in #ubuntu
<ki7mt> One know this if they they knew anything about real support at all.
<Ben64> if your analogy is expanded, you and I would be coworkers, and I was informing you of your bad customer service
<ki7mt> Im well aware of who the "Customers " are.
<ki7mt> Ben64, If you want to look at it that way, sure. Bust me for being wrong, but dont deface the service by doing in public.
<Ben64> its a public channel you were told that that isn't good advice, and you refused to accept it
<ki7mt> That yields nothing positive at all, for anyone.
<ki7mt> Your still not getting it .. it's not what I was told, it's how, good god.
<Ben64> you kept pushing it further
<ki7mt> Now the next time, if there is a next time, I go in the channel to help, and Im looked upon as a idiot thanks to you all, and the fact of the matter is, my answer "Was No tWrong" it would do exactly what I said it would it just did not meet the approval of others, for "Their Own Reason"
<Ben64> see, you still won't accept that you were wrong
<Ben64> just learn from this already
<ki7mt> Ben64, This is going allot further, it's just the beginning, I can assure you.
<Ben64> is that some kind of threat
<ki7mt> What?
<ki7mt> Ben64, I wont accept that I was wrong, because the asnwer I gave would do exactly what I said it would it would "Pin The Kernel".
<Ben64> that isn't what you said though
<Ben64> and it wasn't a solution to the problem
<Ben64> so it was and still is wrong
<ki7mt> and are you saying that it would not ping the kernel package?
<ki7mt> pin
<Ben64> thats not what you said it would do
<ki7mt> It may not have been a solution to the problem. I merely said, go look look up the transcript, one way to do x,y,z is to hold the package.
<Ben64> you were suggesting that if someone likes a kernel, that they should hold it. which doesn't make sense since the kernel version doesn't change
<ki7mt> And are you saying that that holding the package would not affectly freeze the kernel as is?
<ki7mt> Ben64, That's another rabbit hole, not going down those, .. go look up what I said.
<Ben64> i did, and you're still wrong
<ki7mt> How so.
<Ben64> you can't retcon when i have channel logs
<ki7mt> retcon ?
<Ben64> verb verb: retcon; 3rd person present: retcons; past tense: retconned; past participle: retconned; gerund or present participle: retconning; verb: ret-con; 3rd person present: ret-cons; past tense: ret-conned; past participle: ret-conned; gerund or present participle: ret-conning    1.    revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previousl
<Ben64> y described events.
<ki7mt> I can go get the exact satement if you like, I have them all.
<ki7mt> I log every thing that goes on is ever channel I join.
<Ben64> me too
<ki7mt> That's a wise thing to do.
<ki7mt> So, is what I said, not factual, in regards to pinning the package.
<ki7mt> I'll rephrase, would it not affectedly freeze that kernel by placing a package hold on it.
<Ben64> you keep changing the argument
<ki7mt> No, your saying I am wrong. Im saying, it will do what I said, but you wont tell me why what I said wont do what I stated in the channel.
<Ben64> in #ubuntu you were saying it like it was a solution to a problem. it isn't.
<ki7mt> You all have said, I'm wrong, I'm stupid, it's dumb, it's a security risk, and about ten other things, but what you've not said, will it not hold the package.
<Ben64> here you're trying to argue that holding a package holds a package
<ki7mt> that's what I said in the channel, Yes
<Ben64> i have in fact said that the tool does function
<Ben64> which wasn't the original argument at all
<Ben64> the whole issue was that doing so removes security updates from the kernel, which is bad
<ki7mt> And you all jumped all over me telling me why "I Should Not Do That", my argument allon has been, it should pin the kernel, but you tell me why it wont do that.
<Ben64> nobody ever said holding a package wouldn't work
<Ben64> its just a really bad idea to do so
<ki7mt> Dude, I Understnd the Risks, and Affect, but ANSWER the Questino !! wil it not do what I said?
<Ben64> please read above
<ki7mt> A simple Yes or No would Suffice.
<ki7mt> Your telling me Im wrong, and that's what I said, it would pin the package, so who is wrong.
<Ben64> that isn't what you said
<ki7mt> So ither pinnign doesn't work, or your statment is inaccurate.
<Ben64> that's what you're now trying to argue in this channel
<ki7mt> It what I said.
<ki7mt> It is what I said.
<Ben64> since you log everything, please post where anyone said that pinning wouldn't pin
<ki7mt> What I said exactly:  n8s, If you have a kernel you like, putting a hold on the package is one way to ensure it sticky
<ki7mt> Now, argue that.
<Ben64> terrible advice, and pointless
<ki7mt> Now you argue the work "Sticky"
<Ben64> same as before
<ki7mt> Those are opinions, again !!!
<ki7mt> would it not Workk !!!!!!!!!
<ki7mt> Answer = =Yes, it would.
<ki7mt> Whether you think it's good advise or not, is the issue we're discussing. The question si, Would It Work. Yes it would I think. Now is it the best advise, that's another matter.
<Ben64> its bad advice and doesn't belong on #ubuntu
<Ben64> and it's irrelevant because once again, the kernel versions DO NOT CHANGE
<ki7mt> That's an opinion, why wont you answer the question.
<Ben64> what's the question now? you keep changing it
<ki7mt> Would putting a hold on the package as suggested not freeze the kernel package as is?
<Ben64> nobody ever argued against that
<ki7mt> You said I was wrong did you not?
<Ben64> it doesn't change the fact that it's bad advice, has no point, solves no problems, and actually creates a host of issues
<ki7mt> Now we're back to that again, circle the wagons again.
<Ben64> because thats the point that actually matters
<ki7mt> Says you.
<Ben64> and you still refuse to accept
<ki7mt> I never said I didn't agree that is' not a security risk, did ?
<ki7mt> I never said, there's maybe other methods did ?
<Ben64> then why suggest it at all
<Ben64> it doesn't fix anything!
<Ben64> just accept it already
<ki7mt> I never said anything other than, it's "One Way To Do Something"
<Ben64> its not an option
<ki7mt> It is, very much so an opinion.
<Ben64> it isn't
<ki7mt> prove it.
<Ben64> it solves a problem that doesn't exist by creating a lot more problems
<ki7mt> A host of other issues, how open ended is that .. LOL .. solves no Problemn, sure it does, freezes the kernel, bad advise, it was a suggestion, not the ultimate solution, it certain has a point.
<Ben64> there is no point
<Ben64> the only reason you've given is "i want to"
<Ben64> which is not a valid reason to cut off security updates, much less tell someone in a support channel to do so
<ki7mt> Not, I even prefaced th sentence, in English no less.
<Ben64> you didn't
<Ben64> Nov 18 2015 15:41:42 <ki7mt>	n8s, If you have a kernel you like, putting a hold on the package is one way to ensure it sticky
<ki7mt> Do i really need to repaste the sentence again, so we can go over it word for word?
<Ben64> 1st off, not english
<Ben64> 2nd, the kernel version doesn't change under normal updates anyway
<ki7mt> It's not what is it?
<Ben64> its still bad advice, shouldn't be given in #ubuntu
<ki7mt> The Kernel Package most certainly does change, often.
<ki7mt> That's an Option again.
<Ben64> the package does sure, not the version
<ki7mt> dude, you can't help yourself can you.
<Ben64> you can't accept that you're wrong
<ki7mt> Finally, a straight answer. ONly took 2 hours.
<ki7mt> Im not wrong, you are,
<Ben64> you can go ahead and be wrong, don't do so in #ubuntu
<ki7mt> Freezing that package will prevent it form changin, or should, thus making it a "sticky bit"  :-)
<ki7mt> Stop telling me what to do.
<Ben64> i can tell you whatever i like
<ki7mt> And if you can prove I intentionally tried to do soething bad or not try to be helpful with that advice, I'll never go in there agian.
<Ben64> you're missing the point again
<Ben64> nobody is trying to tell you you're a bad person or trying to mislead people
<Ben64> i'm trying to educate you
<Ben64> what you suggested is a bad idea, and i'm trying to show you why but you keep trying to bring the argument to weird places
<Ben64> learn from your mistakes, don't double down
<ki7mt> Your hung up on what you think is god like, show me where it's written it's a bad idea to hold a package, any package.
<Ben64> no security updates = bad idea
<ki7mt> Show ME!!!!
<ki7mt> where it's written.
<ki7mt> And then show me where it should not be suggested to others.
<Ben64> right here -> no security updates = bad idea
<ki7mt> Oh, there's that god like complex again, anywone else write it, or did you come up with that yourself?
<Ben64> it's common sense
<ki7mt> so your argument is, dont ever hold a package, as it's a security risk?
<Ben64> right
<ki7mt> then we can tell the MOTU guys, delete that package, we dont needed, its a secutiry risk.
<Ben64> delete what package
<ki7mt> You dont even know what package provides the function LMAO
<Ben64> i'm asking you, don't assume
<ki7mt> It's s security isk, so flash, java, python, perl, bash, and god knows home many other hundreds of packages available in the repository, may as well get rid of them too.
<Ben64> you're not making sense
<ki7mt> My typing is bad sorry. You said, dont put a hold on packages as it's a security risk.
<Ben64> it's been about 3 hours of you rambling around trying to make yourself feel correct, i'm done now. Please read the above again when you're in a mood to actually learn something. Until then, don't make bad suggestions in #ubuntu
<ki7mt> I say, well then, my as well get rid of hundreds of packages, if not thousands, as they are all security risks.
<ki7mt> OpenSSH and Bash exploits come to mind, should we remove those packages.
<Ben64> that's why they get security updates.
<ki7mt> Ben64, I'll make whatever suggestions I feel is appropriate.
<Ben64> and if they're wrong, get ready to be informed of that
<daftykins> ^ +1
<ki7mt> daftykins, Is that a threat, or promise?
<daftykins> that's a really stupid question
<ki7mt> usually, in your case, obviously we need to make an exception.
<ki7mt> daftykins, what is stupid about the question?
<ki7mt> at least this time you attacked the statement, not the person making it, that's progress, however so slight.
<daftykins> i do not need to make progress when it comes to aspie trolls such as yourself.
<ki7mt> Now I am a troll, I'll and hat to the list. And what may I ask, do you men by Troll?
<daftykins> i don't have the patience to pander to your pathetic drama any longer, get lost.
<ki7mt> daftykins, You called me a Troll, I would like to know what that means.
<ki7mt> The Channel Topic says: We follow the CoC at all times here | No ranting here please
<ki7mt> That must not apply to everyone here.
<ki7mt> daftykins, I dont think this is in the CoC is it ?: <daftykins> i have to admit i kinda pushed that guy a bit further so he'd get himself kicked
<ki7mt> If it is, I must be missing a chapter.
<OerHeks> http://www.bing.com/search?q=ubuntu+port+53
<daftykins> :)
<OerHeks> i like bing more than google, now you know
<Ben64> eww
<daftykins> i guess you just "binged it" ;)
<OerHeks> bing on chrome ..
<daftykins> you made Bashing leave ;)
<OerHeks> I am so not sorry.
 * OerHeks likes bashing-0m
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> intel ivybridge (gen3) doesn't have dual-link DVI, how rude! so it's 1920x1200 max
<daftykins> g'night team \o
<OerHeks> gn daftykins
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> ms goes opensource
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/microsoft-open-sources-visual-studio-code-for-gnu-linux-os-x-and-windows-496393.shtml
<lotuspsychje> morning Latrodectus
<Latrodectus> night lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: excited for your new work?
<Latrodectus> yes
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: what will you have to do exactly?
<Latrodectus> it's tiring, but it's a job
<Latrodectus> lotuspsychje: i have to do my job, and not fuck it up...
<lotuspsychje> k
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: still no ota8 :p
<OerHeks> Today, sunshine
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> its rainy here :p
<OerHeks> OTA-8 will start phasing in today
<lotuspsychje> great
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, lets write an Ubuntu manual together ... it will be a hit: Ubuntu manual - how *not* to do stuff
<OerHeks> we have plenty of logs now
<Ben64> you missed all the fun in here earlier
<OerHeks> oh, we have the logs Ben64
<Ben64> it belongs in some kind of museum
<OerHeks> hips,  Microsoft published the Visual Code Studio sources on the GitHub project hosting website https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode
<OerHeks> Ben64, well, it might be a stupid idea, but i think worth a try, .. and if someone comes with that stupid idea to uncomment security updates, point them to the book ( that i'd like to write with others like you)
<OerHeks> or as title:   DON'T USE UBUNTU (this way)
<OerHeks> :-D
<TJ-> G'morning
<OerHeks> hi TJ-
<OerHeks> TJ-, he wants to copy his client ssh key to the server, as i understand ?
 * OerHeks is a little confused
<TJ-> Me too at the moment
<TJ-> if the server changes the IP address then he's going to keep getting a client-side challenge about accepting the server's key fingerprint
<OerHeks> Yes, that i understand, unlikely the server changes ip
<TJ-> I think maybe he's confused over what the local client does
<TJ-> You know how I seem to attract all the most complicated issues?
<TJ-> Took me almsot 24 hours continusouly yesterday to upgrade my HTC M8 from Cyanogenmod 11 to 12.1 (Lollipop) - everything I was supposed to do wouldn't work for some reason or other, and I had to jump through hoops!
<TJ-> It made me realise how enjoyable the same experience on GNU/Linux actually is!
<OerHeks> TJ-, i notice that, qualified helpers can stay for a few hours, then they are burned up. it is pretty intensive, irc help.
<TJ-> Certainly IRC is much harder than real support.
<TJ-> You've got to out-think the actions of clueless.positively crazy users, without any chance to actual observe what they're doing that might make things worse :)
<OerHeks> complete description of actions, or situation, is key.
<TJ-> One of my companies pioneered remote support many many years ago; When you've done that and can get on and fix a system in a couple of minutes IRC is like going back to the stone-age :)
<OerHeks> remote support, like teamviewer or phone?
<TJ-> as in a permanent network connection to the client's network over VPN, and ability to be remotely controlling the problem PC within about 10 seconds of a support call coming in.
<TJ-> most issues were user-created, and if you can get in quick 95% take no more than 5 minutes to solve, including warning the user as to proper conduct in future.
<TJ-> We had monitoring systems in-house that'd pre-emptively warn us of emerging issues too, so we could head them off before they caused knock on effects - obvious things like getting close to running out of disk space, or log messages warning of some system problem
<OerHeks> Ah, i see, but then you know the hardware profile, saves a lot of time too.
<OerHeks> here we don't know the hardware, software version, not even the level of knowledge by the user. and he has to type too.
<TJ-> right, but when youv'e got thousands of systems being managed in reality there's rarely much history for each individual system, so you've still got to get up-to-speed. The difference is you've got control and quickly do all the essential background research of system/config/logs without a user to mediate between you and the system
<TJ-> hmmm, looks like norc is getting rather confused and blaming the wrong thing for the problems.
<Ben64> OerHeks: he did mention wanting to see it in writing that disabling security updates is not a good idea
<Ben64> so please do write that book
<OerHeks> i will !
<OerHeks> :-D
<Ben64> and yeah, the hardest part of support is figuring out whats going on
<TJ-> logs logs and more logs :)
<Ben64> well when a user comes in, "I have a problem"
<Ben64> and you have to play 20 questions to figure out the issue in the first place
<TJ-> I recall one time during winter storms we had a call "my Internet isn't working" and our quick-thinking techie asked "Did you get any trees blown down?" ... telegraph lines were felled :)
<Ben64> I used to live in texas, working in tech support in person
<TJ-> Ben64: right, that's where the cost is. Everything you do to pre-empt that is money in the bank
<Ben64> I had to keep track of when thunderstorms were, because all the broken PSUs came in after that
<lotuspsychje> morning TJ-
<TJ-> g'morning :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: what you think of this: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/11/17/magicstick-and-ubuntu-core-redefining-the-pc-on-stick-experience/
<lotuspsychje> hi there ki7mt :p
<ki7mt> Hello
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: a lot of marketing hype there... "tap on it to launch it" ... so the stick magically turns the TV into a touchscreen does it?!
<TJ-> "Every app is just a few taps away on your TV."
<lotuspsychje> well i like the idea of ubuntu on every machine
<TJ-> I like how they omit the keyboard and pointing device
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<TJ-> If they'd engage in honest advertising I might be more appreciative; as it is I think it's all marketing hoo-har and no substance. I'd like to see someone 'enjoy' the experience shown in that photo... how far away are they from the screen? they must have a telescope to read the text!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> well smart tv is pretty far away aswell
<lotuspsychje> and depends how big the tv is also
<TJ-> right, and renders a few objects relatively large, and uses something like 140 pixel height fonts
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> on a 60" tv :p
<TJ-> I have no problems with the 'idea' but all I see there is wishful thinking rather than something that most people would find comfortable in reality.
<lotuspsychje> a friend of mine has this samsung 60" on his wall watching 1080P blurays
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah i understand where you going
<lotuspsychje> the real deal instaed of blingbling
<TJ-> the large screens are great if you're in a large room; I have one that's 10 meters from the sofa and that just about works nicely
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: how many "
<OerHeks> bigger than 25" is too big, i think, even from 10 ft away
<lotuspsychje> we have a 40" in about 5meters and were pretty happy with it
<lotuspsychje> hmm thats the first ive seen this http://trentaos.org/
<OerHeks> oke, my living room is 4 x 6 .. maybe i should get a bigger house
<TJ-> 60" Samsung
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: nice :p
<TJ-> only really watch BBC News on it :)
<lotuspsychje> what a spoil TJ- :p
<TJ-> Well, whilst Eddie is away at uni... when he's back it'll be movies I'm sure
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: you need a 80gig bluray bdwmv :p
<TJ-> I don't have the time to use it; only time it'd get used is for house parties
 * OerHeks needs a 70" 8k UHDTV with Dolby Surround 22.2 & betamax
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> LOL @ "needs"
 * lotuspsychje wants a houseparty too
<OerHeks> it is *just* 1m77
<lotuspsychje> i recently helped my brother in law with a 4K samsung that had mbt clouding
<lotuspsychje> seems like samsung cant repair that
<TJ-> We'll send you an invite next year. I had been thinking about hosting an Ubuntu get-together next spring
<TJ-> can't repair it?
<lotuspsychje> and i had to play around with brightness/contrast/led backlight
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: samsungs service doesnt aknowledges it as a defect
<TJ-> what's 'mbt' ?
<TJ-> I could only think Mountain Mike :P
<OerHeks> sounds nice, get-together meet&greet, in Europe or the States?
<TJ-> s/Mike/Bike/ !
<lotuspsychje> not sure, but thats what ive looked up
<lotuspsychje> clouding/bleeding
<TJ-> OerHeks: Europe, here in the U.K.
<OerHeks> oh oke, UK is doable, Ferry trip is not that expensive
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: hmmm... I'd best keep an eye open for that.
<OerHeks> tent, sleeping bag and air mattress, whoppa!
<TJ-> OerHeks: lol errr no I think we can do better than that!
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ebpM4yLSg
<OerHeks> and a lorry for my pc,monitor, keyboard and such ..
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: uk, netherlands and belgium not all far away
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: oh, yeah, I see that. no big deal.
<lotuspsychje> we should actually meet one day :p
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu lanparty lol
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's what I've been thinking... it'd be nice for us to actually meet and get to know each other aside from techy support
<OerHeks> yeah lotus, i was thinking about that too, for a long time, last big meeting here in nl was with the release of 10.04
<lotuspsychje> nice
<OerHeks> since then .. ubuntu-nl is a little dead
<TJ-> I've been looking at buying a farm in Kent which is the bit near the white cliffs of dover so it'd make a good location for hosting a gathering for UK and the continent
<lotuspsychje> would be cool
<lotuspsychje> dover is only a boat away from me
<OerHeks> and a chance to visit Canonical, London :-D
<lotuspsychje> lets hope the war victims from calais doesnt come steal the gear :p
<TJ-> OerHeks: Errr!
<OerHeks> ...??
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> OerHeks: we could organise a Denial of Service party :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-:  doenst liek the big dogs :p
<lotuspsychje> haha
<OerHeks> Denial-Of-IRC-Helpdesk-Service-Party \o/
<lotuspsychje> d4rk ubuntu connecting canonical servers
<OerHeks> we should all login, and be quiet
<lotuspsychje> by the way we have an anonymous vs isis on freenode :p #opparis
<TJ-> You couldn't be quiet if you tried :D
<TJ-> All we have to do is say "I've got a black screen" and you'd have to shout out "!nomodeset" :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> Turn it on, man!
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: not very anonymous then :D
<lotuspsychje> your computer has been h4cked by !nomodeset
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: nope, the official is anonops ssl :p
<TJ-> I'd love to, as a stunt, recompile the kernel so all the command line parameters need to be entered in reverse: "tesedomtes"
<TJ-> oops, missed the "on" off that!
<lotuspsychje> :p
<OerHeks> Molloh, thank you for visiting the Official Ubuntu IRC channel!
<TJ-> See? it'd be real fun... that and a support house party with a slightly tipsy (drunk) agents :)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
 * lotuspsychje isnt getting drunk by few british drinks :p
<TJ-> Let's launch our own distro: utnubu.moc
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> I will have my 1st Guiness ..
<lotuspsychje> and i my kilkinny
 * OerHeks can dance
<TJ-> We'll have it on draught for you, we're going to install a bar
 * lotuspsychje flows down the heineken down the river
<lotuspsychje> how about we just stick with belgian beer :p
 * TJ- throws lotuspsychje a paddle
<OerHeks> I am so sad, no shop sells Koninck beer anymore :-(
<TJ-> I wonder if anyone's created a network/heat map of the Debian/Ubuntu derivatives, it'd be useful to understand the relationships and the relative popularity of them all
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: lol your such an out-of-the-box thinker :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you know thats an actual career/job internet thinker?
<TJ-> yeah, that's always been my thing :)
<OerHeks> There are so many forks .. Mint, Elementary, .. i think i named the important ones
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i saw an interview on the docu of panopticon on the internet thinker
<lotuspsychje> about internet/privacy/big brother
<lotuspsychje> mint brrrr
<OerHeks> I have never installed mate, nor windows on this pc.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good pc :p
<OerHeks> .. or Fedora
<OerHeks> .. or 15.10
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<OerHeks> Actually, it is a HP machine, with an win7 license ....
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-desktop-with-unity-8-to-handle-background-apps-and-file-access-differently-496410.shtml
<TJ-> I might build a test-bed that deploys the derivatives and auto-analyses all the differences caused, so we have actual hard data on what the differences are, rather than just saying "it isn't supported" we could then say *why* it wasn't - i.e. the differences that make it unique
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I wish I hadn't seen that article, it's put my heckles up immediately with the sub-headline: "the Ubuntu developers are still analyzing how much access will be granted to users"
<TJ-> What. The. $)^^)$Â£! are they thinking!?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> brb laundry
<TJ-> "... the new version of the OS will most likely land on the desktop with all the restrictions in place, ..."
<TJ-> time to abandon ship methinks
<OerHeks> like the USC, hard coded unity bar, etc?
<TJ-> the restrictions they're talking about is about running other applications in the background, access to the file-system, and so on
<TJ-> If anyone had doubts about Canonical not understanding what the F in F/OSS means, this really crystalises it
<OerHeks> But that article says it is during the development stage ..
<OerHeks> MS goes open source, Ubuntu goes closed binairy blob
<OerHeks> worldis changing rapidly, people
<OerHeks> maybe the world is going to swing on its axes ...
<OerHeks> \o/
<TJ-> Imagine the support headaches if the user themselves cannot access key parts of the file-system
<lotuspsychje> where there is money, weird things happen
<TJ-> no, its not money, its 'control'
<lotuspsychje> thats the same thing
<TJ-> No, it isn't.
<lotuspsychje> if you have money, you can control others
<TJ-> I've been considering launching a funded alternative for a while now, but with a strong legal community controlled constitution so these kind of 'visionary' centralised creeping changes can't be done.
<TJ-> Debian++ sort of basis
<OerHeks> With all these new changes, MIR/wayland, phone, tv/car/IOT ..
<OerHeks> i think i'll stick with ubuntu for now :-(
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> Some are disappointed about Kubuntu ..
<lotuspsychje> yeah blueskaj told me dodnt like where plasma is going
<lotuspsychje> and would like to stick to kde for its features
<lotuspsychje> isnt here like a kde fallback like we have gnome fallback?
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: greetings mate
<cfhowlett> hideeho lotuspsychje
<TJ-> I've long thought the main 'problem' with open-source is that it mainly is driven by developers satisfying their own desire to challenge and try out new things, rather than focusing on a stable overall design and goal and improving that incrementally, so we get all these disruptive changes in the core experience simpy because the key developers have got bored with things
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i totaly agree on that
<TJ-> that's also its best trait too, so how we 'square the circle' is a difficult problem
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but if your a dev, thats being like an inventor right?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: the community cant choose what a dev invents?
<TJ-> my main objection is to never rip out existing functionality before you've got equivalent replacements in-place and working
<lotuspsychje> yeah i really hope they wont rip out solid trusty stuff for xenial :p
<TJ-> correct, but having a settled design and roadmap that everyone can understand would go a long way, as would devs actually talking to the end users in the 'long tail'
<lotuspsychje> thats like a dream scenario :p
<lotuspsychje> but in the real field, things go otherwise
<TJ-> Above all, users should have the choice to keep things as they are for them, even if the underlying system focuses in a different direction
<lotuspsychje> thats a nice one
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: this should be in topic :p
<TJ-> I have no objection to doing new things - I want that - but I do object to upsetting a users expectations and settled exerperience - when you cause disruption you generate negative feelings and lose support
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: wasnt that how linux distro's started, big full cd/dvd with the user choosing packages/flavors
<TJ-> I'm a dev - I know the itch, but I also like to think I'm professional and respect my users
<lotuspsychje> kde,gnome,enlightment,..
<TJ-> right, but those choices didn't keep ripping out major functionality ... at that time they were incrementally adding to the existing experience
<lotuspsychje> true
<TJ-> We had it with KDE, then Gnome, Unity and now KDE/plasma,
<TJ-> that's the user-facing, mass-market part that everyone experiences.
<TJ-> Server-side the biggest disruptions have been Upstart and now Systemd, but Systemd is doing good things mostly (although breaking my rule of not replacing components until it has equivalent functionality)
<lotuspsychje> the user gets drowned in so many distro's
<TJ-> I was musing the other day of designing a super-distro that can take and use packages from any other distro no matter what packaging system it has. LXC makes that quite practical now
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: im real curious where this all will go
<TJ-> Like - and this is a major issue I think - instead of creating all this new stuff that causes turbulence, how about focusing on building an internal monitoring system that picks up on installation issues and reports/auto-fixes them. The number of issues we see that could be avoided or automatically fixed is massive.
<lotuspsychje> i like the auto-fix idea
<TJ-> Yo've only got to look at the logs - especially $HOME/.xsession-errors - to see that the developers are not checking how their programs are misbehaving. The code is, bluntly, crap!
<lotuspsychje> there should be more practical devs like you TJ-
<lotuspsychje> feet on the ground thinking
<TJ-> auto-fix would spot 'issue fingerprints' from the logs, and then query a distro server for related/the same issues and download a specific diagnostic shell script. That would do further specific in-depth investigation, report back to the bug/issue tracker, and if available download a 'fixer' script for the specific issue. It'd then tell the user, ask them if they wanted to attempt a fix, and if the
<TJ-> user approves, would create a snapshot of the system at that point, make the 'fix', ask the user to test it and if OK accept it. If not accepted, roll-back to the snapshot and carry on
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: if ubuntu brainstorm would still exist
<TJ-> All this is stuff I'm - slowly - working on myself, to create a secure (encryption from boot), auto-healing  distro
<TJ-> Whatever a distro does, the owner/operator of the PC should be, and feel to be, in positive control of their PCs destiny
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: not going to be easy, with so many diff hardware?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: hardware doesn't matter; in fact, hardware issues are the easiest to diagnose and fix!
<TJ-> hardest part is user interface issues
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> morning Ben64
<Ben64> hello
<TJ-> which is where snapshots come in. I use git to manage all changes to my .dotfiles .dotdirs config in $HOME, triggered recently by inotify watches on the key dirs. That way, I can instantly roll-back any and all changes. If that were a standard part of all installs... well... we'd have so many less issues and users could quickly fix their own problems
<Ben64> it's 2:51am btw
<lotuspsychje> night :p
<TJ-> Ben64: you're late!
<Ben64> had to cut power to test a GFCI outlet
<Ben64> turns out, no voltage from hot to neutral
<Ben64> very strange
<TJ-> mice eaten through the cable?
<Ben64> i hope not
<Ben64> don't really get much of that in this area though
<Ben64> more likely the previous owners did dumb stuff with the wiring
<Ben64> i've seen it in many other places in the house
<Ben64> old 1970s ceiling light above bathtub, one of those light socket -> outlet things, plugged into a fluorescent light box, in a box made of 2x4s
<Ben64> i'm surprised it didn't start a fire
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> crikey!
<TJ-> well, be glad you haven't got wiring from the early 1900s :)
<Ben64> yeah thats good
<Ben64> i've seen those... cloth insulation
<Ben64> aluminum wiring sucks too
<TJ-> right. I'm aiming to replace almost everything with 2-core copper 12V DC
<Ben64> 12v?
<TJ-> yeah, very little need for 240V AC around now most devices are digital, with the exception of ktichen/laundry
<TJ-> Hoping to go 100% off-grid with our own generation capacity
<Ben64> that's awesome
<Ben64> isn't it hard to power most things with 12v though
<Ben64> computers, tv, etc
<lotuspsychje> ive got 16/19v solar panel to branch smartphones/laptops on
<TJ-> No, most take 12V by default. PCs are 12V DC or less. Many monitors have 12V inputs or can be adapted, as can many LED TVs
<Ben64> hmm
<TJ-> In my study I have a 12V run and a 5V run. I use standard outlets for each (5V is USB A, 12V is barrels)
<TJ-> power comes from some large lorry/tractor/RV type batteries which are charged from solar, wind, and mains as needed. Just need to up the charging capacity and add a few more batteries so it can cope with a weeks worth of load without a charge
<Ben64> sounds good
<Ben64> would you run into problems with cable length though
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: do you charge batteries from the solar panel, or charge directly?
<TJ-> Ben64: shorter the better but using large core and keeping the batteries as close to the loads as possible.
<TJ-> I was investigating dual-use recently - using existing copper water pipes to also carry the power. It actually makes sense
<cfhowlett> that sounds WAY too exotic or me to mess with.
<TJ-> :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: it charges the internal battery + charge directly also
<lotuspsychje> bbl dinner
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotus|nexus7> updating
<daftykins> strange class of folks we're getting in these days
<lotus|xenial> good evening to all
<daftykins> hallo o/
<daftykins> how's lotus today?
<lotus|xenial> hey daftykins :p
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: fine just updated nexus7 and my bq to OTA8
<lotus|xenial> rocknroll :p
<lotus|xenial> what are you busy with daftykins
<daftykins> well i got given the Nexus 5 my friend promised, today
<daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5.jpeg http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5-2.jpg :)
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: new or 2nd hand?
<daftykins> very much second hand :> but free!
<daftykins> i've got a screen on order but it'll take until December to arrive :(
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: you sure the insides are intact?
<daftykins> yeah he's a mate i know well so he was using it for ages until the screen cracked enough that the above was how it looked
<daftykins> in fact when i pressed on it, i saw a message window display clearly
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: will you put touch on it?
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> if it works properly it'll be an option to move up from my Nexus 4 maybe
<lotus|xenial> ah nexus4 should work fine, n5 still got issues i think
<daftykins> i don't have any interest really :)
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: for smartphone use you mean?
<daftykins> in most things ubuntu for desktop and phone, really
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: running win for desktop?
<daftykins> depends on the system i'm on
<lotus|xenial> ah kk
<daftykins> but yeah, mostly :)
<lotus|xenial> !info xpad
<ubot5> xpad (source: xpad): sticky note application for X. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.5.0-0ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 99 kB, installed size 654 kB
<lotus|xenial> !info xpad xenial
<ubot5> xpad (source: xpad): sticky note application for X. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.5.0-0ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 99 kB, installed size 654 kB
<lotus|xenial> ah same
<lotus|xenial> this1 doesnt crash on xenial :p
<lotus|xenial> oO
<daftykins> or does it!?
<lotus|xenial> lol no, regular system crash :p
<lotus|xenial> http://oi66.tinypic.com/b3whs6.jpg
<lotus|xenial> xenial wobbly windows :p
<daftykins> such a fast IRC client, it's racing from left to right!
<lotus|xenial> lol
<daftykins> that really reminds me of a logo but i can't think which!
<lotus|xenial> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotus|xenial
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: 'run' from windows? :p
<daftykins> yes it is! :D
<daftykins> i am impressed, i knew i had seen it somewhere
<lotus|xenial> BluesKaj: you just missed my xenial wobbly windows shot: http://oi66.tinypic.com/b3whs6.jpg
<BluesKaj> oh wobbly windows...haven't used it in a while, mainly used it to impress my windows buddies ;-)
<lotus|xenial> lol
<BluesKaj> about all it's meant for IMO
<lotus|xenial> and then run winblows in a VM and wobble with it
<lotus|xenial> 'wobbly windows'
 * lotus|xenial hides for daftykins 
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> and possibly making your PC consume more power, to heat your home in winter
<BluesKaj> I've had enough of windows for a while , with all the tomfolery around the W10 upgrades , what a pita
<lotus|xenial> :p:p
<daftykins> tomfoolery?
<daftykins> works for me :) i'll still keep people on 7 though, for business folk
<lotus|xenial> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-ota-8-update-officially-released-496432.shtml
<BluesKaj> daftykins, yeah , it's foolishness to me , should have stuck with W7
<BluesKaj> I don't like the "look"
<daftykins> mmm lots of white to begin with, the latest build or "fall update" has already changed a lot of that
<daftykins> nooo lotus invites all the riff raff
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> this is the hardest channel to get idlers in
<lotus|xenial> dont worry
<daftykins> ;)
<lotus|xenial> after 2hours they leave and you never see them back
<lotus|xenial> even the hard volunteers keep forgetting to add to favs
<daftykins> we can't even keep eric in ;_;
<lotus|xenial> yeah lol
<lotus|xenial> and monkeydust
<lotus|xenial> and ioria
<lotus|xenial> and your friend, hackerII wahaha
<daftykins> i only just spotted Missl0tus ! hi o/
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> Missl0tus: be friendly to him!$
<daftykins> wow IRC under duress... :)
<Missl0tus> lol
<Missl0tus> hello!
<Missl0tus> :p
<daftykins> ah you have pinched the other computer, excellent
<lotus|xenial> yep im upstairs on xenial box again
<Missl0tus> otherwise I have no computer here
<Missl0tus> lol
<daftykins> do you tend to get by without?
<daftykins> i know a lot of folk can't stand to see them once they finish work
<lotus|xenial> its true, im clamining it most of the time
<Missl0tus> we are a nice couple he's upstairs and I am downstairs
<Missl0tus> ...
<Missl0tus> :p
<lotus|xenial> lol
<daftykins> "absence makes the heart grow fonder"
<lotus|xenial> shhhhh; dont tell all our secrets public
<daftykins> perhaps you can email him a recipe to do for dinner, Missl0tus ?
<lotus|xenial> we just had french fries with horse eye eggs
<daftykins> though i guess you guys have already done that in your timezone :>
<daftykins> horse eye o0
<lotus|xenial> humm
<Missl0tus> :p
<Missl0tus> lol
<lotus|xenial> not sure how its called in english lol
<lotus|xenial> the yellow of the egg complete?
<daftykins> i just had a couple of bacon sandwiches, mmm
<daftykins> oh right, yolk on its' own?
<lotus|xenial> like scrambled eggs, but not scrambled lol
<lotus|xenial> wait a google pic
<Missl0tus> the yellow of the egg complete lol
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: http://static4.koken.vtm.be/sites/koken.vtm.be/files/recipe/image/istock_000002975400small.jpg
<lotus|xenial> Missl0tus: you say it in english!
<daftykins> ah just normal fried egg i'd call that
<Missl0tus> the boiled egg fried egg, sunny side up
<daftykins> :D
<lotus|xenial> grrrr you googled it cheater Missl0tus
<Missl0tus> yes yes
<lotus|xenial> hahaha
<daftykins> :O
<Missl0tus> horse eye lol
<daftykins> that'd be one very sick horse
<lotus|xenial> hehe
<daftykins> :D
<Missl0tus> lol
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: so how would you call this then? http://rachelcooksthai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/fried-egg-1.jpg
<daftykins> an accident
<lotus|xenial> wahaha
<daftykins> looks like an omelette :)
<lotus|xenial> but an omelette is also fryed, in the pan?
<daftykins> ja
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> you dont have a special name for horse eye? :p
<daftykins> ok you win, i am no eggxpert
<lotus|xenial> :p
<daftykins> i'm going to reassemble this broken phone and put a SIM in, see if i can call it XD
<lotus|xenial> cool
<lotus|xenial> give it a second life
<daftykins> oh yeah it's going to be fine hopefully once i receive the new screen, it's just likely weeks away on delivery :(
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: overseas delivery?
<daftykins> yeah cheap Hong Kong ebay job
<lotus|xenial> goold ol china :p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Â£26 for the 1080p phone LCD, digitiser, glass and front casing O_O
<lotus|xenial> oO
<daftykins> i don't 100% believe it if i'm honest :)
<Missl0tus> http://www.123rf.com/photo_38902195_breakfast-with-croissants-orange-juice-and-coffee.html
<Missl0tus> *hint
<Missl0tus> tomorrow
<lotus|xenial> mmmmm
<Missl0tus> hard-boiled egg!
<Missl0tus> :p
<lotus|xenial> ill wait patienctly in my bed Missl0tus
<Missl0tus> haha
<lotus|xenial> :p
<daftykins> you'll be waiting a long, long time ;)
<lotus|xenial> lol
<Missl0tus> :-)
<lotus|xenial> she knows the way to the bakery
<Missl0tus> he's so nice
<Missl0tus> lol
<Missl0tus> romantisch
<lotus|xenial> romantic you mean
<Missl0tus> :p
<daftykins> hey it's no good to tease lisps!
<lotus|xenial> OerHeks: !!!
<lotus|xenial> OerHeks: OTA8 is alive and kicking
<Missl0tus> lol daftykins
<OerHeks> hoi lotus, ja ik zag het net :-)
<lotus|xenial> OerHeks: do you know the english word for 'paardenoog' (omelet)
<daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5-3.jpg
<daftykins> aww yes fixed! ;)
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: looking very techy :p
<daftykins> Mischief got in on the first pic - http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5.jpeg
<OerHeks> lotus|xenial, nope, 'paardenoog' looks like a normal egg
<lotus|xenial> OerHeks: daftykins thinks its fryed eggs, but omelette is also fryed
<OerHeks> omelette is egg, milk, salt & pepper, stirred until it is fluffy, then baked?
<OerHeks> and if you stirr it during baking, it is scrambled egg ??
<lotus|xenial> so fryed egg means its still complete
<daftykins> eggs are too complex for moi
<lotus|xenial> lol
<daftykins> that phone doesn't even turn its' display off, heh
<daftykins> ah well, i must wait for the screen :(
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: maybe with power+vol down?
<daftykins> nah i can see it boot
<daftykins> i think it's getting stuck after android comes up though
<lotus|xenial> lets hope it didnt break mobo
<OerHeks> Is there a Quizz going on in #ubuntu ?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> yeah some kind of locales challenge
<lotus|xenial> #ubuntu-touch is even more weird
<lotus|xenial> that studio guys is asking weird noob questions for n hour
<OerHeks> mir of wayland .. wat is cli?
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: she got a xorg line from an arch wiki
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: i already told her, thats not the way to go..
<daftykins> i gave a bunch of links, one was disabling Xorg's backing store, few other params
<OerHeks> *him
<lotus|xenial> victoria is a him?
<daftykins> yeah when this user first came in it was a guy, i think the nick is a cover up to maybe make people help more
<daftykins> common tactic
<OerHeks> it is just the same attentionseeker that is here all week, man.
<lotus|xenial> grmbl
<lotus|xenial> whats wrong with these ppl
<lotus|xenial> irc crossdressing
<daftykins> in all seriousness i've encountered a lot of transgender or otherwise users on freenode
<OerHeks> err .. wikipedia is right, 'heks' is most times a woman ... not always
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lotus|xenial> i thought hacking wasnt allowed on freenode?
<lotus|xenial> how did those #opparis guys create this without seeing?
<OerHeks> no such channel
<lotus|xenial> OerHeks: * Now talking on #opparis
<daftykins> zomg that phone booted! :D
<lotus|xenial> !yay | daftykins
<ubot5> daftykins: Glad you made it! :-)
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> it rings, when called too \o/
<OerHeks> call me ... mayby ..
<OerHeks> is there a thunderstorm worldwide, or earthquake comming?
<lotus|xenial> howso OerHeks ?
<daftykins> definitely some nasty gloomy weather over here :)
<lotus|xenial> rainy here also
<daftykins> aaaaand that's enough of ubuntu for today
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lotus|xenial> ioria: !!!!
<lotus|xenial> you found us again
<ioria> wow.... are you becoming xenial ?
<lotus|xenial> ioria: yes from the start
<lotus|xenial> ioria: updated from 15.10
<ioria> how it is ? i'm curious
<lotus|xenial> ioria: its still in daily image, but pretty sable so far
<ioria> good....
<ioria> something new  ?
<lotus|xenial> ioria: new libreoffice, new firefox
<ioria> wow....
<lotus|xenial> and lots of internal stuff
<lotus|xenial> !info libreoffice xenial
<ubot5> libreoffice (source: libreoffice): office productivity suite (metapackage). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:5.0.2-0ubuntu5 (xenial), package size 25 kB, installed size 147 kB
<ioria> i'd like to try it....
<lotus|xenial> ioria: well still looks mostly like 15.10 for now
<lotus|xenial> ioria: but im helping hunting early bugs so
<ioria> i see... you are like the Rangers " Always a step ahead  , Horra  !!! "    :Ã¾
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lotus|xenial> ioria: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-568865930
<ioria> lotus|xenial,   that's cool
<lotus|xenial> :p
<fusioned> hey guys
<lotus|xenial> hi
<daftykins> \o
<fusioned> was trying to get a feel for what games people with Trusty or Ubuntu are playing these days
<fusioned> be it naitive, with WINE, emulators, playonlinux, whatevs
<lotus|xenial> fusioned: i find shadow of mordor intensive on ubuntu
<lotus|xenial> steam game
<fusioned> ive heard of that game. what type of game is it like? rpg? mmo?
<lotus|xenial> fusioned: check steams database for linux games
<lotus|xenial> fusioned: check the shadow of mordor trailer :p
 * daftykins pats his xbox
<daftykins> ;)
<lotus|xenial> :p
<fusioned> have you tried Rust?
<fusioned> Rust looks kinda cool
<lotus|xenial> no im not really a gamer
<daftykins> #ubuntu-steam might allow gaming chat, not sure
<lotus|xenial> !info links2
<ubot5> links2 (source: links2): Web browser running in both graphics and text mode. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.8-2 (vivid), package size 1834 kB, installed size 3007 kB
<lotus|xenial> nite nite all
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotus|xenial> sudo halt -p
<OerHeks> see you soon, maroon
<lotus|xenial> OerHeks: byebye ; )
<fusioned> gonna kick it old school and play some diablo 2 and half-life and Q3 Arena
<fusioned> maybe Manhunt too since it runs well with WINE
<damnation> wow
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> just don't tell the devs...
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-20
<Bashing-om> TJ-: IRT tachyondecay dmesg - line 277 " Calgary: Unable to locate Rio Grande table in EBDA - bailing!" .. I see this a lot . What is the significance ?
<TJ-> It's an IOMMU in some Intel chipsets, used in IBM x series
<Bashing-om> TJ-: K; then "bailing!" is nothing to be upset about .
<TJ-> correct, it's built-in and is just looking for the tables that define the IOMMU. doesn't find them, so 'bails' out - doesn't stay in memory
<daftykins> nn all! \o
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> no bananas today!
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje prays for regular users
<lotuspsychje> !info nmap
<ubot5> nmap (source: nmap): The Network Mapper. In component main, is extra. Version 6.47-3 (vivid), package size 3668 kB, installed size 17433 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/after-wireshark-2-0-nmap-7-free-network-scanner-is-finally-here-496455.shtml
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: !! good morning
<cfhowlett> heyo lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Good afternoon.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<EriC^^> daftykins: o/
<daftykins> hello there, how're we all doing today? :)
<OerHeks> are we ready for the weekend madness?
<daftykins> never!
<EriC^^> daftykins: good good, yourself?
<EriC^^> let the madness begin!
<daftykins> but we'll stumble through :) very friendly customer just then i see
<daftykins> yes thanks, just picked up a nice new jacket today, so i'm all set for winter now :)
<daftykins> still some time to wait to get the new LCD for that LG Nexus 5 phone i'm fixing up, i love fixing things :)
<EriC^^> awesome
<daftykins> i don't think you were here when i was linking that?
<EriC^^> nope
<EriC^^> do link
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/n5.jpeg
<daftykins> a friend has had it for months at home sat doing nothing, with the hugely smashed screen
<EriC^^> ouch
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/n5-2.jpg
<EriC^^> wow it's pretty banged up
<OerHeks> kept in backpocket on a bicycle?
<daftykins> nah, he's an aircraft engineer, had to keep it on him when working alone in a hangar away from the company offices. For some reason he did a job lying down with it in his back pocket, so that caused a first smash to the glass upper left; but then he kept using it
<daftykins> essentially he was skating around on top of it, full body weight >_<
<daftykins> but Â£26 from Hong Kong on ebay for a new full screen, glass, digitiser and front case portion - a brief component swap and it should be back in business :D
<daftykins> i've got a Nexus 4 so i may even switch to using it myself
<EriC^^> it's very slim
<EriC^^> how does it not have buttons on the front though? it's in the lcd itself?
<EriC^^> like you slide to unlock then you get buttons at the bottom to navigate and stuff?
<daftykins> yep, soft buttons as they call 'em now
<daftykins> means that they can change icon to change purpose and be hidden during fullscreen content playback etc
<EriC^^> oh, cool
<Yaiyan> First thing I do after a new install is to open Firefox, download Chrome and replace Firefox with Chrome everywhere :l
<daftykins> ok
<Yaiyan> Once that's done I can start playing with Ubuntu-Chrome =)
<daftykins> you were wholly wrong about the unit discussion by the way, i'd appreciate if you didn't tread all over my assistance in future
<Yaiyan> ok
<OerHeks> daf noelia does not understand thatwifi speed is something different than cable,  30 mb sounds not bad to me.. how do we find out it is not 30mbit ?
<OerHeks> nvm ..
<daftykins> i had hoped an answer on that would be forthcoming, but i think given it's this problematic realtek adapter and heavily out of date, we've got to wait for that first :)
<daftykins> note to self, STOP trying to help 3 people at once
<daftykins> only confusion can result :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Uh Huh ^ .. problem such as that is compounded working a couple of forums ( while waiting ) . There are those times when I too stress myself out .
<daftykins> oh the pace of forums must make it 10x worse too, having to re-read before progressing?
<Bashing-om> Yeah, not (RE-)reading has bitten me bad a time or 2 . And then tunnel vision is my worse fault .
<Bashing-om> Looks like I am about caught up.. will try and lessen your load daftykins .
<daftykins> thanks :) which user do you fancy taking?
<daftykins> BottomNotch seems to have tried to install xfce and now gets 'low graphics mode' on boot
<daftykins> then "ich_" i think has heavily modified an install already to try and get it working and left it useless
<Bashing-om> I thouhgt you had both of those under control . Awaiting them to get the systems up-2-date.
<daftykins> looks like one has a system that won't comply and the other one is offline when at a TTY so can't fix >_<
<OerHeks> Some considder that as trolling, keeping volunteers buzzy by not telling all important info, as a merry-go-round
<OerHeks> for days now ..
<Bashing-om> Our crystal balls have cracks, we do not see clearly .
<daftykins> :( always odd when they keep the key component to the end
<OerHeks> All power i need, is to realise i don't have to give support allone ;-) and be able to walk away
<OerHeks> but it surely is misty sometimes
<daftykins> that guy with the killer wireless, i remember they weren't supported not long ago - wonder if it's changed yet
<daftykins> i think the ath10k driver for a specific atheros model was still in development
<daftykins> i'm gonna keep my hands off that one though :D
<OerHeks> hmm i notice a lot of www.askubuntu-com.pw in google, not an official ubuntu site, is it?
<daftykins> not seen that one
<Ben64> $ whois www.askubuntu-com.pw
<Ben64> DOMAIN NOT FOUND
<daftykins> i don't understand why my chown command in channel didn't work for others but works fine for me
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-21
<lotuspsychje> good (early) morning all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-s-ip-policy-is-vague-for-a-reason-but-matthew-garrett-says-ubuntu-is-not-free-496496.shtml
<lotuspsychje> heyia daftykins :p
<daftykins> ^_^ o/
<daftykins> just popped back after grabbing my laptop adapter
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> morning OerHeks :p
<lotuspsychje> insomnia too?
<OerHeks> no, maybe ..
<OerHeks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> 24/7 support heh
<lotuspsychje> full house here, hi Ben64 :p
<daftykins> well i'm actually playing a game now ^_^
<TJ-> morning :)
<lotuspsychje> hey there TJ-
<daftykins> o/
<TJ-> Anyone here got an HTC One M8 ?
<lotuspsychje> bq here :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: whats the issue
<daftykins> TJ-: yeah i've got one upstairs doing nothing with stock 5.x installed
<Ben64> hi lotuspsychje
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Ooooo my friend :)
<TJ-> I've got Cyanogenmod 12.1 on mine, and am hacking the Duo Camera UFocus capability so its available for Cyanogenmod users. I would like to get an 'adb logcat' capture that includes the Camera app being started for the first time after power-on.
<lotuspsychje> oh never played with cyan
<TJ-> I've already figured out the reason it doesn't work on CM is that the code is trying to read a customized 'bundle' of settings, and so I'm trying to identify what creates that bundle - it could be a missing Java class, or it might be text settings in an XML file shipped with the phone.
<daftykins> mmhmm, so as simple as throwing debug mode on, plugging into the PC and using adb; i can do that, i have a minimal adb and fastboot install on my desktop
<TJ-> daftykins: right, precisely that. Power up phone from off so nothing's already been done, from the PC do "adb logcat |& tee /tmp/m8.log" and then start the Camera application and use it to take a UFocus photo (not sure if there's some user-controlled setting in the app to choose UFocus, or if it is automatic)
<daftykins> hrmm not even heard of such a thing before
<TJ-> I currently see this on CM 12.1: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13383367/
<TJ-> daftykins: the One M8 has 2 main cameras, 1 of which captures depth-of-field info, that allows the Gallery app/Effects/UFocus function to change the object of focus in the picture
<daftykins> weird, i just powered it up and it says safe mode in the corner - i sense that might throw things?
<TJ-> I've decompiled the Camera.apk to Java code using JDL-GUI so I have the source on view, but the method that throws the exception doesn't get decompiled correctly, so I'm a bit in the dark. I've just downloaded the stock M8 ROM image and am working on that, too
<TJ-> Safe mode? You installed windows on it? :D
<daftykins> lawl
<TJ-> I think that happens when the buttons get pressed in certain ways at power-up
<daftykins> weird, don't think i was leaning on anything
<daftykins> ok debug mode on, rebooted so it's normal, just installed on this lappy will get adb going
<TJ-> thanks :)
<daftykins> yay adb working, often you have to get a windows driver that works =|
<daftykins> so i'll run the camera app
<daftykins> do i need to go to anything specific within?
<daftykins> nm i re-read, gonna try to find this feature
<TJ-> It may be entirely automatic; I replaced stock immediately I got the phone in 2014 so can't recall
<daftykins> okie dokie lets try
<daftykins> TJ-: not sure if i got the right bit; http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/log.txt
<TJ-> wow, that output looks amazingly different to the logs I captured
<daftykins> android 5.0.1 on this guy atm
<daftykins> happy to try anything else you like whilst it's here
<TJ-> ahhh, I see why
<TJ-> Just found some tips on the Android Dev web site
<daftykins> oh ja?
<TJ-> "By default, the Android system sends stdout and stderr (System.out and System.err) output to /dev/null. "
<TJ-> apparently, to enable it we do "adb shell stop; adb shell setprop log.redirect-stdio true; adb shell start"  ... then the "adb logcat ... " again
<TJ-> Directions at the end of this page: http://developer.android.com/tools/debugging/debugging-log.html#outputFormat
<daftykins> TJ-: http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/log.txt updated
<daftykins> or replaced, even
<daftykins> all those commands were accepted by the minimal adb i have here, so i assume they were honoured
<daftykins> doesn't hugely look that different does it? :S
<TJ-> Unfortunately not, that's a shame!
<daftykins> it could be this thing i'm using then, would it be of any use to throw the tools on a Linux laptop i have around instead; then let you SSH in and have a fiddle with getting adb running properly?
<TJ-> my log has none of those 'mm-camera' entries. Seems to be totally different
<TJ-> I don't think so, I suspect its related to the HTC spin of the ROM
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> i've been keeping this thing around with the idea to update it when marshmallow goes live, heh
<TJ-> I know there are a lot of classes of the name-style HTCWrapXXXX where XXXX is some standard Android
<daftykins> probably need to sell this phone
<TJ-> class name
<TJ-> I have what is supposed to be a stock ROM image here so I'll plug away in that to try to figure it out.
<daftykins> how on earth does this thing use 6.62GB of the storage after a factory reset 0o
<TJ-> the ROM image is about 1.5GB compressed ZIP
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: it"s FOSS website has alot of nice tuts, maybe you can find what your looking for there?
<daftykins> i think it's more treading new ground getting this camera stuff working off the official ROM :)
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: unfortunately they don't document the Camera to that degree; The issue appears to be that stock and custom ROMs with te HTC 'Sense' interface have UFocus support, others don't. So I'm trying to track down what else is needed to add to enable this. currently it looks like this CustomizedBundle is the key
<lotuspsychje> or maybe the XDA forums also very handy
<lotuspsychje> there might be some HTC8 projects there
<TJ-> XDA is clueless too; There's isloated camera packages that work on Sense-based ROMs, but no one has put in the effort to analyse what is needed without a Sense ROM
<lotuspsychje> ic
<daftykins> this is the problem with going custom ROM, you get rid of all the junk on the official... but some features just don't work
<TJ-> I actually know what I'm looking for - what I don't know is where it is stored, and it what kind of file! It could be a simple .xml properties file or a Java Class file with attributes
 * daftykins hands over a Sherlock Holmes hat
<TJ-> the HTC Camera has a class FeatureConfig, with a .query() method. It checks a linked-list of FeatureConfig objects, each of which contains a 'feature' flag. Currently its returning "W/FeatureConfig( 4296): mIsUFocusSupported:false" mIsUFocusSupported is the one I have to change.
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: can this help for dir search? http://www.apkmirror.com/apk/cyanogenmod/cyanogen-camera/cyanogen-camera-2-0-005-04864afef4-00-android-apk-download/
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: unfortunately not; the stock camera app doesn't know about the Duo/Ufocus camera, I'm working with the com.htc.camera Camera code from the HTC ROM
<TJ-> You can install the HTC Camera and Gallery apps from the Play Store; the problem is they don't enable the UFocus support due to this issue I'm hacking on
<daftykins> i didn't even twig why there are the two rear cams :D
<TJ-> It seems there's something done when the entire Sense API classes/configs are installed that causes a FeatureConfig class to be instantiated that has the mIsUFocusSupported set to true
<daftykins> only got given this thing by my mum when i got asked to move her data over to the LG G4
<TJ-> I know the class that sets it - what I have to find is the code/file that causes that class to be instantiated
<TJ-> daftykins: the M8 camera is amazing - it has ultra-large CCD pixels so works really well in low-light conditions, and this DepthMap means you can pull out detail from a photo logn after it was taken
<daftykins> kinda like shooting RAW?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: how about this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15077257/windows-phone-8-htc-8x-flashlight-does-not-turn-onwithout-using-camera
<TJ-> No, the CCD actually takes in more photons per pixel, so though its 'only' a 4 mega-pixel, those pixels collect a lot more photons
<daftykins> funky tech!
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: no, that's a Windows Phone 8 API security issue - the app has to claim rights to the camera to control the flash
<lotuspsychje> just trying to find relevant files/dirs :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: how about this: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/Camera.html
<daftykins> ;)
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: unfortunately not; this stuff is all specific to the M8's Duo camera setup, and it capturing a DepthMap using the 2nd camera, and storing that in the photo data so it can be used by the Photo Editor
<lotuspsychje> right
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: none of the stock Android code knows anything about the Duo/Ufocus
<TJ-> I even have the HTC DuoCamera SDK but its for application writers, it doesn't go into detail on the underlying driver functionality
<TJ-> There are so many parallel tracks to follow and compare to find the differences I've got lost! Time for a coffee
<TJ-> daftykins: thanks for the logs; there may be some clues in them yet, once I'm a bit clearer on what to be looking for
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: http://forum.cyanogenmod.org/topic/99456-will-ufocus-or-the-double-camera-function-work-on-cm11-m9-or-m10/
<daftykins> TJ-: :D my pleasure; although i already deleted the files so i hope you snagged a copy :>
<TJ-> yeah, I did
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: yeah, already been there :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: http://mostlyirrelevant.info/2015/08/19/duo-camera-support-for-htc-one-m8-roms/ ?
<TJ-> daftykins: hmmm, question: did you have the Camera app in Video or Stills mode?
<daftykins> TJ-: stills definitely, took a couple of pics of the cat by tapping on the still square/circle before ending the cap :D
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: right, that page has the table showing the support matrix across Sense and non-Sense ROMs
<lotuspsychje> The trouble for people who like to use custom ROMs is that many non-stock (Sense) based ROMs break the Duo camera because the camera drivers do not capture the necessary additional photographic data to make post-processing possible. Hereâs a compatibility matrix to figure out if youâll be able to use Duo camera effects like U-Focus:
<TJ-> daftykins: OK... I asked due to "W/System.err(12741):  at com.htc.camera.component.AudioManager.setVolumePanelOrientation(AudioManager.java:887)"
<daftykins> hey lotus' link says something about HTC gallery update, this phone being reset might need an update of some kind?
<TJ-> daftykins: in your logs there's some Class/process running called "HfmClient" - I don't see that on CM, I'm wondering if it could be the missing link
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> is that in your image too?
<TJ-> daftykins: right, originally folks had to install the HTC Camera.apk/Gallery.apk by sideloading via Recovery... then HTC released those apps on the Play store and they contain updates, so you can install the apps directly rather than side-loading
<daftykins> hmm, so would i maybe have needed to add a google account and grab that for it to supply the data you needed?
<TJ-> "HfmClient" makes me think the "H" stands for HTC ... not sure about the rest, but its not in the Cyanogenmod images
<daftykins> right now it's just been turned on after a factory reset, then every menu skipped to get it to the home screen
<TJ-> No, since that phone has the stock HTC ROM that always contains the UFocus code
<daftykins> ah ok
<TJ-> I actually found a properties XML file in the Camera.apk ufocus.xml that has no settings and I'm reall, really, hoping all I need do is add some magical attribute there :)
<daftykins> hehe
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> The way the FeatureConfig  works, as far as I can tell,  is all features are disabled unless some confguration parameter specifically enables them
<daftykins> reverse engineering some companies' approach to a topic must be so enlightening / horrifying all at once
<TJ-> So it could be as stupidly simply as adding "<config attrib="mIsUfocusSupported" value="true" />
<TJ-> The Camera.apk I'm working from has another, related, FeatureConfig value set to true. If I can find how that is configured in the APK I might be able to deduce how to enable the other features
<lotuspsychje> chinese for me :p
<TJ-> daftykins's log has some similar entries: "W/HTCCamera(12741): onPause() - mIsUIReady = false" - that 'mIsUIReady' also appears in my CM12/Camera.apk logs "W/HTCCamera( 4296): onPause() - mIsUIReady = false"
<TJ-> daftykins: I don't think that phone does have UFocus support! I found 2 matching blocks in the log files, and on mine after "W/UIComponentFactory(14969): Creating component 'Zoe UI Controller'" I have "W/UIComponentFactory( 4296): Creating component 'UFocus UI Controller'" but on yours it doesn't try that
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> doesn't make sense that it'd lack their main prized feature
<TJ-> But HAHA!
<TJ-> "E/CameraConfigFileReader( 4296): CONFIG_FILE does not exist !"
<daftykins> :O
<TJ-> whilst on yours: "V/CameraProfiler(14969): [PROFILE][INTERVAL][CameraConfigFileReader.ReadConfigFile.Start -> CameraConfigFileReader.ReadConfigFile.End] 28.901 ms (28900781 ns)"
<TJ-> and 6 lines later I see "W/FeatureConfig( 4296): mIsUFocusSupported:false" - so, there's a CONFIG_FILE to find
<daftykins> two down D:
<OerHeks> jups
<TJ-> wow, the wind speed alarm has gone off on the weather station... might end up in the English Channel at this rate!
<OerHeks> hmm see france http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-0.07,50.51,1050
<TJ-> red/purple is faster ?
<TJ-> oh, it wasn't the wind-speed alarm, it was low-temperature: -27C !!
<OerHeks> brrr
<TJ-> I think either we had bad wind-chill or the weather station has been blown down and is having a fit... I'll wait until daylight to go out into the field to check
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> g'night folks, i've thrown a second duvet on the bed and it's time to retire
<daftykins> TJ-: i'll have that HTC kicking around for a while i think, so let me know if it can be of any further use :)
<TJ-> daftykins: thank-you. I'm currently struggling to build the lateset Java decompiler in order to get to see more of the Camera source-code, but hit a problem with incorrect Java libraries using the 'gradle' build system, so it might be put on hold for a few days
<daftykins> doh!
<TJ-> as in https://github.com/java-decompiler/jd-gui/issues/97
<TJ-> OK, I'm braving the wind and rain, the alarm is doing my head in! Send the rescue huskies if I'm gone too long :)
<OerHeks> What if the alarm stops?
<OerHeks> I'll send Drabber
<TJ-> Had to dry it out with a hair dryer, the transmitter was hanging on the wires upside-down and had got rain in it
<OerHeks> let me invent the tyrip for you
<TJ-> it's gone quiet now, thankfully
<lordievader> Good morning.
<TJ-> morning :)
<lordievader> Hey TJ-, how are you doing?
<TJ-> fighting android decompiliation to hack a fix :)
<lordievader> Hehe, the best fixes :P
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<TJ-> g'afternoon :)
<pauljw> hi TJ- :)
<OerHeks> ~~~~~~/\~~~~~\o/~~~~~~
<pauljw> OerHeks: heheh..
<pauljw> as usual, i'm a day late and a dollar short, but i want to say thanks to all of you guys who i watch day after day in awe of your knowledge and willingness to help we of lesser abilities...
<pauljw> brb
<pauljw> why would someone that hasn't even figured out where to find xorg.conf think he can successfully overclock his vid card???
<OerHeks> yeah, plus i think the drivers are not all suitable for such overclokc action
<pauljw> :)  just asking for trouble
<BluesKaj> who really needs to overclock on computers for th last 10 yrs anyway, I doubt very much if has made much difference in response time, even on 3d games
<pauljw> i haven't even heard anyone use the term in years.
<BluesKaj> overclocking is a holdover from distant past IMO
<pauljw> agreed
<OerHeks> overclocking processors i do hear sometimes
<OerHeks> and underclocking
<pauljw> yeah, i just read something on supercomputers referring to overclocking the processors...  doubt that's what he's talking about.
<BluesKaj> tafaik overclocking was used on the cpu
<OerHeks> not sure what guide he comes up with, we'll see.
<lordievader> Intel processors overclock themselves these days.
<BluesKaj> hyper thread?
<lordievader> No, turbo boos.
<lordievader> boost*
<lordievader> Hyperthreading is intelligent scheduling of operations to reduce stalls.
<BluesKaj> turbo boost sounds like some king phony internet spped boost from my dialup days :-)
<pauljw> lol
<BluesKaj> err something
<lordievader> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Turbo_Boost
<pauljw> cool, i have an i7 but didn't know that about it
<BluesKaj> well, that leaves me out , my laptop is an i3
<pauljw> :(
<BluesKaj> but i didn't expect an entry level cpu to come with something like that
<BluesKaj> i3 is perfectly fine, it's plenty fast enough for my needs
<pauljw> no doubt
<Bashing-om> It Saturday, how tight should I cinch up when climbing in the saddle ?
<pauljw> tight
<pauljw> :)
<Bashing-om> Ho-kay .. will be a wild ride .. See what I can learn .
<OerHeks> persons that mess with runit, and don't know sudo ..
<OerHeks> please kill me, have mercy
<pauljw> lol
<MonkeyDust> there
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all mates
<DosTuMai> EvEning.
<pauljw> hi
<lotus|xenial> !info inity-tweak-tool xenial
<ubot5> Package inity-tweak-tool does not exist in xenial
<lotus|xenial> !info unity-tweak-tool xenial
<ubot5> unity-tweak-tool (source: unity-tweak-tool): configuration tool for the Unity desktop environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.6ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 325 kB, installed size 2353 kB
<lotus|xenial> hey ioria
<ioria> lotus|xenial, hi ... how are you doing ?
<lotus|xenial> ioria: im gonna try unity8 on xenial
<ioria> oh...
<lotus|xenial> not sure if this will overwrite unity7 or not
<Bashing-om> lotus|xenial: Great, someone has to blaze the trail :) .
<lotus|xenial> Bashing-om: im curious :p
<ioria> lotus|xenial, don't know .... http://askubuntu.com/questions/447891/how-to-install-unity-8
<ioria> lotus|xenial, maybe not
<lotus|xenial> ok lets test this== logout
<Bashing-om> lotus|xenial: Huh ! Being curious, generates a high level of smart .
<lotus|xenial> brb
<pauljw> hasn't worked for me...
<lotusMIR> ioria Bashing-om i had to install that mir
<lotusMIR> and logout brings me to choose mir login
<ioria> mmmmm......
<lotusMIR> looks like ubuntu-touch phone
<ioria> !info unity8-desktop-session-mir
<ubot5> unity8-desktop-session-mir (source: unity8-desktop-session): Unity8 desktop session for Mir. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.12+15.04.20150309-0ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 4 kB, installed size 53 kB
<lotusMIR> yep thats the one
<ioria> i see....
<ioria> !info unity8-desktop-session-mir xenial
<ubot5> unity8-desktop-session-mir (source: unity8-desktop-session): Unity8 desktop session for Mir. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.12+15.10.20150609-0ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 4 kB, installed size 54 kB
<lotusMIR> ok back to normal unity
<lotus|xenial> that was fun :p
<ioria> ^_^
<lotus|xenial> http://oi64.tinypic.com/2nk31c0.jpg
<lotus|xenial> unity7 and unity8 settings :p
<ioria> the upper bar is interesting ...
<lotus|xenial> ioria: its like on ubuntu touch
<ioria> i see...
<Bashing-om> lotus|xenial: ^^ it's alive --- it's alive !
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lotus|xenial> nite nite
<daftykins> Bashing-om wins the points for most patient support; lasting what feels like a week now with the same user :>
<pauljw> :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: If I only know better .. In my defense, when I started this I did warn that " I know nothing " .
<daftykins> :D very brave!
<Bashing-om> wow ^^, makes me wonder at the deffinition of "brave" .. a glutton for punishment might fit better .
<daftykins> hahaha
<pauljw> bbl... dinner time
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-22
<daftykins> weekend folks be crazy! :D
<OerHeks> yeah, it must be getting colder
<OerHeks> just seen that james bond movie ..
<daftykins> OerHeks: what did you make of it?
<OerHeks> of that bond movie ?
<OerHeks> ... mwah.. it is not the bond i used to know when i was a kid, say 40 years ago
<OerHeks> the story/plot was enough for a 55 minute soap
<OerHeks> nice effects though.. all i miss was the music.
<OerHeks> all bond movies were full of music, this one was 'dead'
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> mmm, i don't really do the generic action films
<OerHeks> well, my neighbour is bond fan, and a few months back, someone dumped his dvd collection when he moved out ( and other stuff), and got him the 7 first movies.
<OerHeks> the other 200 dvd's i kept myself
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> still need a dvd player, else i need to put them on usb
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> that's a lot of discs
<OerHeks> i always take the curtainrails from those piles, when a newcomer arrives, i am the friendly neighbour that helped with expensive rails for free ( when i leave, i have to remove them too and fill the holes, crazy )
<OerHeks> people trow away so much, we are filthy rich but do not know it.
<OerHeks> pc's ..
<daftykins> very true
<daftykins> certainly when someone comes in having trouble with a rubbish netbook...
<OerHeks> oh got one of those, not really worth to run anymore, single core, gma 450 poulsbo ..
<daftykins> yeah, they were rubbish when new :D
<daftykins> was all this stuff in a skip, then?
<daftykins> not sure if that word translates well
<OerHeks> 207 dvd's? yes
<OerHeks> every month someone moves, 100 appartments in one building.
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> big high-rise tower thing?
<OerHeks> no, l shape, one side 3 floors, and my site is 6 floors high, i live top floor
<OerHeks> pretty view, and from the frontdoor i can see Schiphol airport
<daftykins> ooh nice!
<daftykins> i don't suppose you have any images of said view?
<OerHeks> https://goo.gl/maps/qt9WFYhhyT22
<OerHeks> no, no picture of schiphol, got one from early spring, say april https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/bijnaGroen.JPG
<OerHeks> only when the wind comes from the east, i can hear the planes starting and landing.. but still acceptable.
<OerHeks> hehe Drabber loves flowers https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/DrabberRuiktBloemetjes2014.JPG
<daftykins> sorry just nipped downstairs to check on the cat :D
<daftykins> ooh that's a nice bright snap :)
<daftykins> i like all the little figures by the window
<OerHeks> copper things, i used to collect them a lot.
<OerHeks> or cupper, not sure
<daftykins> copper yep for the shiny metal, mmm
<pauljw> gnite all
<daftykins> phew, i felt positively surrounded by them all just before
<Bashing-om> daftykins: You wield the sword of truth so well.
<daftykins> haha, i'm being mistaken for grumpy!
<Bashing-om> some people do not take the cut well :))
<daftykins> TJ-: aww you've been missing all the fun!
<daftykins> have you found a time the crazies go away? :P
<TJ-> morning :)
<TJ-> Have you been stirring it up?
<daftykins> that Victoria has been comment on my demeanour in front of the riff raff!
<daftykins> *commenting
<OerHeks> VictoriaXOXO is writing a book
<OerHeks> or you are doing his schoolwork
<TJ-> his?
<TJ-> I thought it was a her from some gender based comments 'it' made a few daya ago
<OerHeks> my solution was /etc/network/if-post-down.d/ >> http://askubuntu.com/questions/519920/how-to-run-an-up-script-using-network-manager-openvpn
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<TJ-> breakie time, mmm
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: found your duocam issue yet?
<TJ-> Getting closer yes
<TJ-> It turns out the reason UFocus isn't enabled is that the HTC Camera code makes calls to another, separate, HTC CustomiziationManager class from a separate package which is part of the 'Sense' framework. I should be able to reverse it sufficiently to create alternate placibo classes that give the answers the Camera code expects to hear
<lotuspsychje> ic
<lotuspsychje> ive been testing out unity8/mir on xenial yesterday
<lotuspsychje> pretty fun :p
<lotuspsychje> install/logout/choose mir/8 from login/use
<TJ-> I cannot believe how much time that cimbakahn has wasted just making a decision!
<lotuspsychje> pffft
<lotuspsychje> its not ubuntu's website thats confusing, but he confuses himself lol
<TJ-> Entered the channel 1 hour 10 minutes ago... amazing
<TJ-> no wonder the lubuntu channel played dead when he was in there :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i wish they would mention minimal is more expert: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall#Full_install.2C_minimal_install_or_core_install.3F
<lotuspsychje> looool
<TJ-> Well, it sounds like thats what this user wants, let him have it
<lotuspsychje> alot of chans are really dead for sure :p
<TJ-> sounds like OCD/micro-manager type
<lotuspsychje> hahaha 15.04 minmal :p and let him encounter alot of issues
<TJ-> OH GAWD, I need a stiff drink else I'll explode
<lotuspsychje> lolz
<lotuspsychje> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/wily/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
<lotuspsychje> 40mb minimal lol
<lotuspsychje> that would be a pain :p
<TJ-> a few minutes until dawn so I'm going to take the dogs out
<lotuspsychje> ok cheers TJ-
<lotuspsychje> run them tired :p
<TJ-> that's the plan, there's frost on the ground so shouldn't be too muddy
<lotuspsychje> yeah getting colder here also
<lordievader> Good morning.
<TJ-> hallooo
<lordievader> Hey TJ-, how are you doing?
<lordievader> Gotten your Android fixed?
<TJ-> which bit was broken that you're thinking about? :S
<lordievader> Yesterday you said: 21-10:48 < TJ-> fighting android decompiliation to hack a fix :)
<TJ-> The M8 is fine with CM12.1 on now. What I'm tackling is enabling UFocus support
<TJ-> yeah, was decompiling the HTC Camera apk to figure out what is missing for getting the application to use the 2nd camera to capture a depth map, so the UFocus will work
<lordievader> That is all uncharted territory for me.
 * lordievader is one of those persons who doesn't have a smart phone
<TJ-> an apk is basically a Java JAR archive, but with all the Java class files compiled into a single 'classes.dex' Dalvik VM bytecode file, so had to do dex2jar and then decompile the jar (Java class files)
<lordievader> I see, interesting.
<TJ-> some methods in some class files weren't able to be decompiled, and they happened to be the ones I needed to see! Sorted it eventually, with an online service using the same libraries I was using, so I must have been doing something not quite the same
<lordievader> Why weren't those able to be decompiled? Some missing dependency?
<TJ-> no, something in the bytecode from the dex2jar output as far as I can tell. I used http://www.decompileandroid.com  and that worked. nice little project, that, too
<lotuspsychje> good sunday to all
<lordievader> https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-coders-worst-nightmare/answer/Mick-Stute?srid=RBKZ&amp;share=1
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader and cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> hideeho lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: too complicated for a sundaymorning :p
<lordievader> It ain't that hard is it? It comes down to the ex-grad student poisoning the compiler that if it saw its own project it would rewrite the source and compile that instead.
<TJ-> I'm amazed this so-called consultant didn't inspect the executable code; that would always be my first step when something 'strange' is happening :D
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> TJ-: i'm pretty sure there's a bug involving kernels and grub or so, wondering about it
<EriC^^> this is my grub kernel line in /etc/default/grub
<EriC^^> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="splash quiet crashkernel=384M-:128M crashkernel=384M-:128M crashkernel=384M-:128M crashkernel=384M-:128M crashkernel=384M-:128M"
<EriC^^> keeps adding that same parameter i guess
<lotuspsychje> ive recently made a 15.10 iso then got error on boot, and had to press TAB and manual enter liveinstall to be able to boo the usb
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> this related?
<TJ-> EriC^^: oh, in the linux-image postinst script?
<EriC^^> TJ-: i guess so
<TJ-> EriC^^: which release is that?
<EriC^^> 14.04
<TJ-> EriC^^: oh, strange! didn't think 14.04 used the crashkernel setting. Which kernel version is latest? one of the HWE varieties?
<EriC^^> there's this line in /etc/default/grub.d/kexec-tools.cfg
<EriC^^> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="$GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT crashkernel=384M-:128M"
<EriC^^> not sure if it's related
<TJ-> oh, kexec-tools
<EriC^^> looks like it takes the last one and adds that?
<TJ-> EriC^^: right, it's doing a simple concatenation every time grub-mkconfig is called by update-grub
<TJ-> bug 1318111
<ubot5> bug 1318111 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "Adds more and more copies of âcrashkernel=384M-:128Mâ in /etc/default/grub when upgrading or reinstalling grub-pc" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318111
<EriC^^> hmm i tried to update-grub it's still not adding it
<EriC^^> oh ok, must be when i grub-install
<TJ-> no, the code in grub-mkconfig calls it
<TJ-> for x in ${sysconfdir}/default/grub.d/*.cfg ; do
<EriC^^> it's not adding it though
<EriC^^> yeah but it doesn't touch /etc/default/grub though right? just makes grub.cfg?
<TJ-> EriC^^: it 'sources' /etc/default/grub and /etc/default/grub.d/*
<EriC^^> odd it's still just 5, i tried to grub-install
<EriC^^> maybe it was fixed or something
<EriC^^> TJ-: yeah, the line is being added to /etc/default/grub
<TJ-> It shouldn't be added to /etc/default/grub
<EriC^^> let me try reinstalling kexec-tools
<EriC^^> nope still just 5
<TJ-> update-grub sources /etc/default/grub and then /etc/default/grub.d/* so anything in the later will be added/replace to anything in the former
<TJ-> EriC^^: Try "bash -x /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig" to see what the script does
<EriC^^> TJ-: yeah, but added to grub.cfg , not /etc/default/grub right?
<EriC^^> how's it getting added to /etc/default/grub though
<TJ-> EriC^^: whatever grub-mkconfig generates is redirected to /boot/grub/grub.cfg by update-grub script
<TJ-> EriC^^: not from those scripts
<EriC^^> yeah, let me try to reinstall grub package
<EriC^^> nope
<EriC^^> TJ-: ok i found it
<EriC^^> when i installed grub-efi-amd64 it added a 6th one
<EriC^^> while installing the package it said
<EriC^^> Replacing config file /etc/default/grub with new version
<EriC^^> then /etc/default/grub had an extra kernel parameter
<EriC^^> TJ-: oh i see, so /etc/default/grub.d is used to generate changes in /etc/default/grub
<EriC^^> and update-grub triggers just /etc/default/grub and /etc/grub.d to make grub.cfg as usual
<TJ-> EriC^^: no, it shouldn't, unless the content of yours is different to mine
<EriC^^> shouldn't what?
<TJ-> shouldn't change /etc/default/grub
<TJ-> /etc/default/grub.d/kexec-tools.cfg should just have:
<EriC^^> it makes sense, there's /etc/grub.d to build grub.cfg
<TJ-> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="$GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT crashkernel=384M-:128M"
<EriC^^> and /etc/default/grub.d to build /etc/default/grub
<TJ-> No, it doesn't build it, both files are sourced into the grub-mkconfig environment
<TJ-> I've posted a fix to that bug report, anyhow
<EriC^^> i modified the kexec-tools.cfg and while installing it asks whether to merge with /etc/default/grub or what
<TJ-> can you pastebin that, because there's no such questions in the grub-mkconfig script
<EriC^^> it's before grub-mkconfig
<EriC^^> Replacing config file /etc/default/grub with new version
<EriC^^> Installing for x86_64-efi platform.
<EriC^^> Installation finished. No error reported.
<EriC^^> Generating grub configuration file ...
<EriC^^> then it's calling grub-mkconfig
<TJ-> That's the package post-inst script then, not from calling update-grub
<TJ-> update-grub calls grub-mkconfig which does: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13444873/
<EriC^^> this is in the .postinst
<EriC^^> for x in /etc/default/grub /etc/default/grub.d/*.cfg; do
<EriC^^>     if [ -e "$x" ]; then
<EriC^^>       . "$x"
<TJ-> right, same thing, sourcing the content
<EriC^^> yeah
<TJ-> incorporates it into the script environment, then the functions later work from the various variables they find
<EriC^^> ah there's something about merging
<EriC^^> merge_debconf_into_conf "$tmp_default_grub" GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX grub2/linux_cmdline
<TJ-> right, that's debconf stuff
<TJ-> which is part of the dpkg --configure or dpkg-reconfigure code
<EriC^^> it's in the postinst
<EriC^^> so what was the fix? is it something to modify in kexec-tools.cfg?
<TJ-> Yes, I added it as a comment to that bug
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> how are you mate
<pauljw> doing well, you?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx
<ioria> hi lotuspsychje ... it's all ok chez toi ? listening weird  things ....
<lotuspsychje> weird things ioria ?
<ioria> in bruxelles ......
<lotuspsychje> ahhh
<lotuspsychje> im in the flemish part of belgium ioria
<ioria> ok.....
<lotuspsychje> ioria: but lucky for you im tri-lingual :p
<ioria> ^_^
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ive been playing with unity8/mir on xenial
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: after install/logout/login to unity8 and use
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: looks like the ubuntu touch phone enlarged :p
<pauljw> lotuspsychje: are touch capabilities incorporated for PC/Laptop installs
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: looks like a unity-style ubuntu touch enlarged
<pauljw> do you like it?
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: unity8 will be on 16.10 so it will change alot
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: sure its fun
<pauljw> sure
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
<daftykins> hey everyone o/
<OerHeks> hi daftykins
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Is back in the house. Attention on deck .. we have relief .
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> i've just been out doing some paid work until now as it goes, so i'm quite tired from my exploits
<daftykins> of all things, today i had the displeasure of rearranging someone's music collection in iTunes for Windows... >_<
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh, wow, do you pick the places to relax . :)
<daftykins> and earlier this evening, an AVG Internet Security product had stopped letting an elderly lady's PC from connecting to wireless networks due to the subscription having run out... !
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> now i must throw some food in the oven :D
<daftykins> are we all well?
<OerHeks> i am going to give the dogs their last walk for tonight, brb
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I wound up with a fairly descent box because of an AVG update ( user chose driver option , could not even boot a liveDVD ) .
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I am still trying to convince the_count that I do not know what I am doing .
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> have you been tempted to tell him to clean install?
<daftykins> i forget the original issue, something touchpad related?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Yeah .. that clean install 'bout 2 weeks past . I do not mind spending the time learning where the translations happen between the hardware and the kernel. Always open to learning - particularly so at other's expense .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Bashing-om: forgive me if this is something you had already done, but i remember that guy coming in with a synaptic driver that needed changing... it was the one i wrote up on my site, not sure if it'd apply to the_count? http://www.techblo.gg/?p=301
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Yeah, you have the right of it .. touchpad driver issue ( maybe ?) .. look'n on your blog .
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I had seen that option in bug reports, As I am shooting in the dark, sure - worth a shot .
<daftykins> i remember the one i linked was the touchpad worked, but the buttons beside it didn't... so it could be quite different
<pauljw>  time for dinner...  bbl.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-21
<rkrohan> Hey
<rkrohan> Does anyone know how to install Ubuntu desktop on raspberry pi 2?
<Bashing-om> It is that time for me once again .. G nite.
<Bashing-om> It is that time for me once again .. G nite.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj - are you still having winter weather?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, sort of , still cool and clear
<BluesKaj> and there?
<ducasse> BluesKaj: cloudy and cloudier, mostly. it's been pretty warm today, i've had the window open all day, but expected to get colder again from now on.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> welcome back!
<lotuspsychje> hey there daftykins
<lotuspsychje> morning Bashing-om :p
<Bashing-om> hey lotuspsychje .. Welcome back .. jumping from the pan into the fire are you ?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> yeah from the kitchen into irc
<lotuspsychje> my collegues dont understand i combine IT job with the kitchen
<lotuspsychje> and i was 18 years in truck n trailer company
<lotuspsychje> all different things
<daftykins> oh what did you do there?
<Bashing-om> That is what makes us ... these varied interest .. Me, I stay so immershed in FOSS .
<daftykins> i dunno i think cakes make me ;D
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: making alluminium trailes of trucks
<lotuspsychje> trailers
<daftykins> funky!
<daftykins> i'd find that quite interesting
<lotuspsychje> howso
<daftykins> i dunno, just the process
<lotuspsychje> yeah same here
<lotuspsychje> it proves we are human and capable of learning without a proof on paper
<lotuspsychje> your not your title, but what you have learned yourself
<Bashing-om> Rebootung .. see how my xorg.conf file performs .
<lotuspsychje> kk
<Bashing-om> Nope, I do think -- that if the kernel does not recognize the chip set, ya recompile the kernel OR install a kernel that does recognize ! No cheating .
<daftykins> :>
<Bashing-om> stick a fork in me ................ I am done, See yall later .
<ducasse> hi all
<lotuspsychje> hi and bye ducasse , how a nice one mate
<ducasse> you too, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> tnx :p
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<Bashing-om> Once more, I find my self here , Now see where we go .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-23
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, i still wonder about that cat /etc/lsb-release.dpkg-dist , http://paste.ubuntu.com/23519642/
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Yeah, got me too .. as I ran it in 14.04 .., DNE .
<Bashing-om> One thing about working support, we often wind up with more questions than we answer :)
<OerHeks> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-22/no-evidence-of-aloe-vera-found-in-the-aloe-vera-at-wal-mart-cvs
<OerHeks> #aloeveragate
<Bashing-om> Now why Am I Not surprised - truth in advertising - NOT .
<daftykins> aloe aloe aloe, said the policeman investigating ;)
<Bashing-om> There is something vera wrong here .
<daftykins> :D
<Bashing-om> Boy, an hour on the channel, with no activity .. times are getting hard for us volunteers :(
<daftykins> best break a few installs so you have something to fix!
<OerHeks> add a lot of ppa's
<daftykins> ooh and then hit upgrade!
<Bashing-om> OH .. It took me the longest to learn not to do that !
<OerHeks> -d
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Wirehunter> lotuspsychje,  Good afternoon
<daftykins> hallo \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> hey Wirehunter
<lotuspsychje> its rainy here
<daftykins> d'aww, i hear nothing atm
<daftykins> and no light!
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows a lightweight browser that doesnt get that cpu is too old warning?
<lotuspsychje> its for an old acer laptop
<lotuspsychje> tested chrome,firefox and opera, they all got that warning
<ducasse> hi all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> good morning, lotuspsychje - how is life?
<lotuspsychje> great here mate, day off xmass shopping today :p
<ducasse> aha, i'm thinking of doing that tomorrow.
<lotuspsychje> too avoid the mass crowds :p
<ducasse> i hate that too, i usually try to get it over with early.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: great idea :p
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: laterz mate and have a nice day
<ducasse> you too, lotuspsychje - talk later
<lotuspsychje> one day we will have a normal conversation lol
<ducasse> :)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> good morning \o
<ducasse> o/
<daftykins> ah hey ducasse \o
<BluesKaj> "Morning daftykinsm ducasse
<BluesKaj> er daftykins
<ducasse> sun and warm today, almost all the snow is gone \o/
<daftykins> so soon! :)
<ducasse> i'm sure there will be lots more :(
<daftykins> postie brought me Fallout 4 today, cost me all of Â£12.50
<ducasse> that's not bad at all.
<daftykins> quite amusing because it's a DVD copy, but it has a steam key - so it can copy over 4.5GB then download the remaining 20GB :D
<ducasse> duh!
<daftykins> apparently it was a pirating measure
<daftykins> er anti-pirating even :)
<ducasse> lol
<daftykins> YARR!
<ducasse> drm sucks, in any case. thankfully it seems a lot of people are starting to realize that now.
<daftykins> i've heard the argument that it makes more sense to buy a games console as a bluray player now, because they can keep releasing fixes for the app e.g. on the xbox one, instead of firmware updates for a consumer player
<daftykins> makes a lot of sense
<ducasse> it does. i had a standalone bluray player, but gave it away. still have a bluray writer in my desktop, handy sometimes.
<ducasse> daftykins: do you know much about arm boards?
<daftykins> no sir
<ducasse> me nether. just looking at what is available, but i don't know which are any good.
<ducasse> *neither
<daftykins> what's the task?
<ducasse> i want a light desktop with low power consumption and minimal space requirements for my living room.
<ducasse> just for web, mail, irc etc
<daftykins> i'm waiting to see prices on the intel atom apollo lake type NUCs
<daftykins> those'll be #1 HTPCs and fit that role well :)
<daftykins> full 10-bit HEVC decode and encode support to boot!
<ducasse> oooh, i'd lov a nuc
<ducasse> not now, though, looking for an amplifier and that's the budget-buster for this month :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> stereo musics only?
<daftykins> still enjoying my NAD :>
<daftykins> i really wish the PSU in it didn't give an idle whine though, i have it run overnight so i wake up to internet radio - bit less than ideal, but bearable
<ducasse> yes, just stereo. i'm looking at a nice one with built-in dac from a local shop, since i'll mainly be using it to play flac and mp3
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> did y'hear about what.cd? :(
<daftykins> very sad times
<ducasse> taken down? never used it.
<daftykins> ah, twas a thing of beauty
<ducasse> i'm still angry about kat :(
<daftykins> *shrug* dirty public ones are a dime a dozen :)
<BluesKaj> ducasse, what kind of amp are you looking at?
<ducasse> local company
<ducasse> it's quite small and not very powerful, but i don't need much. it just has two digital inputs and one analog, which is perfect for me.
<daftykins> sounds good
<daftykins> 18 mins to download Fallout still, my my
<daftykins> 5MB/sec and it's still not enough ;)
<BluesKaj> my HK receiver is rated at only 40W RMS/ch and it can play plenty loud with the Paradigm speakers
<ducasse> i'll combine it with a raspberry pi and mpd, voila music player :)
<BluesKaj> right
<ducasse> thos is just 20, i think, but it will drive my kef bookshelf speakers.
<ducasse> i *could* also get an analog nad or something with more watts, but then i'll need a separate dac at some point
<BluesKaj> KEF used to be a real power eaters back in the day
 * daftykins has a pi in the lounge feeding his Onkyo AVR over HDMI
<BluesKaj> serarate dacs aren't worth the money if you're going t listen to streaming audio
<BluesKaj> separate
<daftykins> well he mentioned FLAC so all is well :D
<daftykins> can get some nice 24 bit 96kHz vinyl ripped stuff in FLAC
<ducasse> not streaming, files. mostly flac or apple lossless.
<daftykins> eww ALAC, get out :)
<ducasse> that's the minority :)
<daftykins> must say a certain digit of mine was extended when i first saw a clients iTunes wanting to convert FLAC to ALAC
<ducasse> some of the ones i didn't rip myself, so to speak :)
<BluesKaj> I've converted all my FLACs to wav ...less processing needed
<BluesKaj> no need for any kind of compression, lossless or not nowadays
<ducasse> flac shouldn't be a problem for an rpi2, i'd guess.
<ducasse> BluesKaj: are you using your rpi to play them? through what software?
<BluesKaj> thinking of connecting the rpi to a monitor and speaker system in the den/office
<BluesKaj> ducasse, no the media HTPC has an outboard drive with all the media on it
<ducasse> ah, ok. and that runs kodi?
<BluesKaj> yes, I have kodi on both the HTPC and the rpi
<daftykins> FLAC is about having the metadata though
<daftykins> useless playing wav and having none :>
<ducasse> i hope to avoid a display on mine, so mpd looks like the best choice
<ducasse> good point
<BluesKaj> I need to do rearranging in my den to set the rpi up properly, just have to get off my butt to do it  :-)
<ducasse> hehe, familiar problem :) i've been meaning to clear up cables etc around the routers for weeks now :)
<BluesKaj> heh, there'a little more than just a few cables deal witrh in my case
<ducasse> then you are more justified than i am :)
<ducasse> i also need to replace the root disk in my server, but actually doing it is a major hassle...
<BluesKaj> bookshelves full of outdated apps etc on cds and dvds and old stereo amps and other junk that has to be thown out or recycled
<ducasse> sounds fun
<BluesKaj> yeah, wife has been after me for weeks now to clear it out
<BluesKaj> now that winter is settling in I'll have time
<BluesKaj> looking forward to new setup though
<ducasse> i've got a small storage room where i keep the server and lots of junk. it'd be nice to clear that out and get stuff properly on shelves etc.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> you guys experienced that cpu too old error on any browser yet on old machines?
<lotuspsychje> forgot its name
<pauljw> not yet, what's old?
<lotuspsychje> ive tested opera, firefox, IE and chrome, all gave me that error
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: acer laptop
<lotuspsychje> aspire older type, not sure wich cpu anymore
<lotuspsychje> i should have written it down
<pauljw> well, i have a 2011 Acer AspireOne w/Intel Atom dual core processor that I just fired up and Firefox is working just fine, no errors.
<lotuspsychje> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/your-hardware-no-longer-supported
<lotuspsychje> think thats the warning i had
<pauljw> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> so many machines have p4 or lower right
<daftykins> Pentium M perhaps? :)
<daftykins> also hi \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<pauljw> hi daftykins
<pauljw> yeah, lotuspsychje, i don't know where the Atom processor falls in modernity of cpu's.
<lotuspsychje> so i guess an older browser would do the trick..
<daftykins> there are quite a number of them (atoms)
<lotuspsychje> but then safety of the browser lacks
<daftykins> you can't run an older browser though chief, once Mozilla have given up it's irresponsible to use it online - time to ditch it
<lotuspsychje> so i thought
<pauljw> mine is running FF 50.0 fully up to date on xubuntu 16.04
<pauljw> lucky for me i guess...
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> it was on a w7 acer aspire, lubuntu didnt like the machine lol
<lotuspsychje> so i couldnt test chromium
<daftykins> hmm can't have come with 7
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: no it came with ME, but i putted 7 on it
<daftykins> from the factory i mean
<daftykins> oooooouch! :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pauljw> oh, must be a bit older than mine, mine had win7 starter originally.
<lotuspsychje> yeah if lubuntu cant run it...its very ancient :p
<daftykins> well you guys know my feelings, lubuntu does not polish a turd - some have to be let go
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pauljw> lol
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: ! never throw away a working box
<daftykins> sir i gave away core 2 duo laptops with 4GB RAM and SSDs :)
<lotuspsychje> i would rather make it a calculator pc out of it, then throw it away
<daftykins> but then they said they might find their way to Africa if they couldn't be used
<lotuspsychje> loll
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - finished xmas shopping? :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah mate, we found quiet a bit today
<lotuspsychje> not all, but the booze and some gifts
<daftykins> :D
 * lotuspsychje wants a retro atari for xmass to play pong
<ducasse> daftykins: what do you think about this? https://www.amazon.com/Musical-Fidelity-V90-AMP-USB-Integrated/dp/B00H54F9R8
<daftykins> hmm totally beyond my skill set i'm afraid
<daftykins> says made in england though, so it can't be snake oil ;)
<lotuspsychje> me neither
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: whats the purpose gonna be?
<ducasse> well - amplifier for playing music :) from rpi, probably, mainly flac.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> we are thinking of buying a portable internet radio
<lotuspsychje> to play everywhere in our new house
<daftykins> o0
<lotuspsychje> both wifi and cable would be nice
<lotuspsychje> and usb support of course
<ducasse> when these things have usb ports, do they function basically as an external sound card?
<daftykins> think so
<ducasse> aaargh! incoming attention-seeking fur missile!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: anyone we know?
<ducasse> she jumped up behind the laptop and tried to hang on to tne screen :)
<lotuspsychje> heeere kitty
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> ok, so i'll need drivers to use usb? not that big a deal since it has optical, i guess.
<daftykins> Mischief says "i could do that but i'm too busy enjoying grooms" http://i.imgur.com/1Fuu02I.jpg
<lotuspsychje> cool pic :p
<ducasse> d'awww
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> i tried to take a oic of her now, but that was _not_ acceptable :)
<ducasse> *pic
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !info xpra
<ubot5`> xpra (source: xpra): tool to detach/reattach running X programs. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.15.8+dfsg-1 (xenial), package size 1046 kB, installed size 4717 kB
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> never heard of it
<ducasse> can be handy
<lotuspsychje> i loved sux, too bad they depraced it
<lotuspsychje> !info sux precise
<ubot5`> sux (source: sux): wrapper around su which will transfer your X credentials. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.1-6 (precise), package size 9 kB, installed size 64 kB
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: what do you think about this? https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx1000
<lotuspsychje> lemme check
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: lookin neat!
<ducasse> i thought so too. more expensive than intended, but i can get it brand new for about $200-250
<lotuspsychje> ethernet and internet radio i like
<lotuspsychje> services like spotify and apps support, not so much..but i guess all devices are trying to these days
<ducasse> don't need that, but it has hdmi, coax/spdif etc
<lotuspsychje> yeah basics are great
<ducasse> a bit overkill, really, but... *shrug* :)
<ducasse> oooh! network controllable, i just *know* there will be a linux client on github :D
<lotuspsychje> ;p
<lotuspsychje> https://www.lifewire.com/best-home-theater-starter-kits-to-buy-4062692
<ducasse> home theater isn't really what i need, all i care about is audio :) the hdmi part is just a bonus, since there are so few hdmi ports on most tv's.
<ducasse> installation finished \o/
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the receiver only then?
<lotuspsychje> omg http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/model.php?m=TX-RZ3100&class=Receiver&source=prodClass 3199$
<ducasse> that's $3000 more than what i'm looking at :)
<ducasse> it looks *nice*, though :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> arch now installed on desktop, think i'll wait until the morning to reboot :)
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: http://www.themasterswitch.com/best-av-receivers
<ducasse> jeez, NixkorN has just been behaving like a total asshole this whole day
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: i also dont like BT as connectivity on such devices
<ducasse> i don't see the point of it :)
<lotuspsychje> audio in/out, eth and usb :p
<lotuspsychje> and hdmi of course
<ducasse> i basically just want a nice amp, but one with built-in dac and digital inputs. the denon thingy looks like the best i can get for my money, and will also be decent for a home theater setup if i ever want one.
<lotuspsychje> yeah denon looks pretty neat
<ducasse> it's a woman seling them, not far from me. she said it's just been sitting in the box, never opened.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> then plugin a nice bredsbandbolaget in it :p
<ducasse> now he's rude to you, too.
<lotuspsychje> ill sack him pretty soon :p
<ducasse> :)
<BluesKaj> yes ducasse, denon is decent quality equipment
<ducasse> i know, this looks like a decent choice that is somewhat future-proof for my needs.
<ducasse> think i'll call tomorrow.
<BluesKaj> I've had my HK since 2008 and it hasn't missed a beat ....knocks on wood :-)
<ducasse> it usually pays to buy good-quality stuff. the only thing this lacks is preout, but that's not a big issue with my economy :)
<BluesKaj> but I've had 3 other HK receivers and amps over the yrs, eventually they all get old and caps dry out etc
<ducasse> eventually, but that can be a long time. a friend of mine is still using his nad 3020, that must be 20 years old.
<BluesKaj> my Heathkit AA29 that I put together as a kit back in 1972 still runs well, a little noisy when switching sources, but otherwise sounds great
<BluesKaj> outlasted all the Harman Kardon stuff
<BluesKaj> ok, gotta run a few errands ...BBL
<ducasse> ttyl BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> same here movietime guys
<pauljw> :)
<ducasse> â« 99 little trolls on the wall, 99 little trolls... â«
<BluesKaj> tomtegubbar :-)
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> this was a nasty one, though. a tomte is usually friendly :)
<lotuspsychje> cheers guys, have a good troll night :p
<lotuspsychje> movie nr 2 here :p
<ducasse> you too, lotuspsychje. might order a pizza here before night :)
<lotuspsychje> yummy
<lotuspsychje> laterz ; )
<romelios> hola
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-24
<ducasse> hi all \o
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> Bashing-om: surprising to see you here this early :)
<Bashing-om> OH .. All the wemen folk are acook'n for Thankgiving .. I be handy for "honey do " .
<ducasse> i see :) i hope you have a pleasant one, eat some turkey for me and make sure to relax plenty :)
<BluesKaj> Happy Thanksgiving Bashing-om
<ducasse> BluesKaj: yours was some time ago, i guess?
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Here we will eat well, Forgive me in that I do not recall your local if you also celebrate this day .
<BluesKaj> yes. it's the 2nd Monday in October
<BluesKaj> in Canada
<BluesKaj> we already have snow on the ground here
<Bashing-om> Oh us Southern illiterate Americans, I am not familiar with the Canadian traditions :(
<Bashing-om> Yeah .. on the snow up North .. was seeing so last night .. It has been unseasonably warm here .. And I am not complaining .
<ducasse> i don't get turkey for another month :(
<BluesKaj> won't last tho , gonna be +7C/45f in a day or 2 so i'm jnot gonna bother shovelling snow
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, we had a very nice november up until last weekend ,... the warmest on record, so I'm not complaining
<ducasse> almost all the snow is gone here, it's been very mild the last week or so. i'm suspecting that is only temporary, though.
<Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 46 F (8 C) ~ Overcast ~ Humidity: 87% ~ Observed: Thu 24, 11:15
<BluesKaj> Arkansas, ok  gotcha
<Bashing-om> ^^ That is about right for this time here .
 * BluesKaj nods
<ducasse> BluesKaj: out of curiosity, do you also have black friday?
<BluesKaj> ducasse, yes, the retailers here have adopted it to compete with the US retailers cities close to our border, but now that our dollar is in the toilet Canadian shoppers are staying here....the retailers here are still advertising black friday but the consumer isn't as enthusiastic as before our doller went down so low
<ducasse> right. they've also started trying to introduce it here the last couple of years for some reason, but consumers don't seem very enthusiastic about it. there are half taxes in december, so most wait with the shopping until then.
<BluesKaj> our traditional "deals day" is  the day after Christmas called Boxing Day and British tradition that transfered to Canada many yrs ago and the retsilers adopted it as a chance to obtain some profit before years end, especially if they had a poor Chritmas shopping season
<ducasse> BluesKaj: ours is first business day after new year, most of everything is (semi-)closed until then anyway.
<BluesKaj> some cities here still don't allow businesses to open on boxing day , but they are very few
<ducasse> we are kind of backwards that way :) there has been some talk of allowing shops to be open on sundays, but it's getting a lot of opposition.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, that's understandable, the people who work in retail deserve some time of on weekends too, at least that's the argument here
<BluesKaj> of=off
<ducasse> right, that's what most people think (we're very protective of employees), plus most simply want a shopping-free day.
<BluesKaj> why should businesses run 24/7 anyway, unless they're considered too important to close like gas/petrol stations and perhaps some convenience stores for those who work shifts
<ducasse> the consensus here seems to be that people should be capable of a minimum of weekend planning :)
<\9> that's the kind of common sense that people here seem to be lacking
<ducasse> "yes, i will do backups. at some point."
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all \o
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<daftykins> has anyone gotten to the bottom of the issue yet, where if someone has installed an nvidia driver, when they enter their password at the login screen, it thinks for a moment then kicks them back out?
<OerHeks> no kernel headers?
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> so that would be a failed module build?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I have 3 other posters with similar issue .. just for info - that to this time with a number of expedients I have not resolved . Pssibility does exist that we "Have" a problem with nVidia .
<daftykins> mmm, i installed xubuntu once on a bare metal box many months ago from 14.04.5 media (so HWE kernel on there) and saw the issue myself, i ended up just reinstalling from 14.04.1 media to be without an HWE
<daftykins> anyway, came up over in #kodi just now and seemed like a puzzle we've seen many times too, yeah :)
<Bashing-om> Each time I mess with re-install Nvida driver ... I hold my breath .
<daftykins> you would love it on Fedora ;) even worse
<daftykins> you have to boot in and blacklist nouveau, change the runlevel to init 3 (because i couldn't work out how to stop X on there) then run the installer binary by hand before rebooting and X coming up fine
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Now ya get a idea why I do like ubuntu ... I have messed around a bit some years back .. ubuntu was a breath of fresh air . I had the greatest amount of difficulty in understanding not to make things difficult .
<daftykins> oh i had the same as i was taught on debian, i found every package i installed and tried to use had defaults that stopped it from even being usable
<daftykins> install a package on *buntu, it works out of the box (usually)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-26
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/11/dell-xps-13-kaby-lake-review/
<daftykins> hrmm new model of my laptop, which a friend is buying soon for Linux use, has shifted to using the nasty 'killer wireless' adapters
<daftykins> i wonder if Linux still has issues with supporting those
<JanC> Dell sells XPS laptops with Ubuntu?
<JanC> XPS13
<OerHeks> it comes with free software, JanC, OS Windows 10 Home 64-bit
<JanC> I suggest he waits for a linux version
<daftykins> no, you can install on them
<daftykins> pretty sure they sell the developer editions with Loonix
<JanC> well, I suggest waiting for a developer edition because they will test & if necessary swap hardware for those
<daftykins> JanC: you don't know about Dell then? they work on it with Linux folk and then put things back into the kernel
<daftykins> sounds like there are no problems though according to reports online, things just work out of the box
<daftykins> usualy Linux issues like rapid battery killing in sleep, wifi iffy after resume from hibernate etc... but if you're mad enough to get a bleeding edge laptop and ruin it with Linux, that's the least of your troubles
<ducasse> hi all
<daftykins> good morning
<ducasse> hi daftykins - how is life treating you?
<daftykins> not so bad here thanks, keeping my funny times as usual though
<daftykins> how's about for you? any new exciting toys? :D
<ducasse> i'm thinking of buying this, got an offer for a brand new one at a very reasonable price: https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx1000
<ducasse> i'd only use it for music now, but then i have the option of doing more with it later.
<daftykins> neat
<daftykins> though in my experience all Denon kit as the most horrible clunky interfaces :>
<daftykins> a clients AVR-3313 takes 30 minutes to update itself over the internet X|
<ducasse> i just need an amp with digital inputs, this is just the best deal i could find. i found a nad at almost the same prace, but it didn't even have hdmi.
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> yeah doesn't hurt having an AVR
<daftykins> i think i'm using all the HDMIs on my little baby Onkyo :D
<daftykins> i'll have to replace it if i upgrade to a 4K TV
<ducasse> there are small amps intended for playing music from a pc, but the price difference was like Â£40.
<ducasse> nearly spent all my money on black friday deals yesterday, but managed to keep control :).
<daftykins> just looked at the spec PDF... which didn't tell me the specs XD
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> tell me about it, i nearly bought an nvidia 1050Ti 4GB just because it was Â£115 delivered
<daftykins> i'd have thrown it in my old quad core desktop, but there's just no reason to bother :D
<ducasse> besides, it's dumb to buy stuff *just* because it's cheap and fool yourself with the idea you're saving money :)
<daftykins> that it is, but i've totally noticed it's a personal failing of mine
<ducasse> me too :/
<daftykins> what's really evil is how amazon put up the 'list price' claiming they had it for sale way higher before the sale day, when in reality it was exactly the same
<ducasse> hehe, that's pretty nasty.
<ducasse> they've just started doing black friday here, and this is the first day i actually saw any good deals. last year it was just 15% on toasters etc.
<ducasse> i'll be ready next year, though! :)
<daftykins> haha, starting simple!
<daftykins> mmm there it is, Â£116.54 delivered for: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/zotac-geforce-gtx-1050ti-mini-4096mb-gddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-109-zt.html
<ducasse> people hardly knew about it last year, but now it was advertised pretty aggressively.
<daftykins> mmm it's amazing how quickly this US thing has headed eastward
<ducasse> yup. when i was a kid we didn't have halloween either. that's not been a big success here, though.
<ducasse> btw; have you seen dr strange?
<daftykins> nope! i don't really do films
<daftykins> i think we knew of halloween but i still stand by sitting that one out
<ducasse> me neither. i used to love dr strange in comics as a kid, though, so i'm considering seeing it tomorrow.
<daftykins> i'd like to see The Arrival :>
<ducasse> interesting, was a new one to me.
<ducasse> i don't keep up at all...
<daftykins> our one cinema is... pretty bad
<ducasse> more tea! \o/
<ducasse> we got a new cinema a few years back, at the time it was supposed to be one of the best in the country.
<ducasse> hmmm... the dar tower is coming next year, i'm not sure i want to see that one. i love the books so much, i don't want the movie to spoil them for me.
<ducasse> *dark
<daftykins> ooh an AMD RX 470 4GB performs about 30% faster for Â£16 more XD
<ducasse> amd, though...
<daftykins> yip, i'd say that's only really a problem in Loonix land, but... yeah they suck everywhere :D
<daftykins> probably a lot more power to do the same thing
<ducasse> i don't understand people who want to use linux for gaming...
<daftykins> nah, it's like tying one arm behind your back on purpose
<daftykins> there we go, 75W on the nvidia vs. 120W on the AMD
<ducasse> terrible :(
<ducasse> have you seen the humble bundle unix books thingy?
<daftykins> nope!
<ducasse> https://www.humblebundle.com/books/unix-book-bundle
<lotuspsychje> good morning guys
<ducasse> hiya lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse how are you mate
<ducasse> good, thanks. and you?
<lotuspsychje> great, day off here
<ducasse> any plans for the day?
<lotuspsychje> yeah later we have a coffee and pc repair appointment at friends
<lotuspsychje> there android tablets gets updates stuck, so ill have a look
<lotuspsychje> do updates on their ubuntu box aswell
<ducasse> sounds fun :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah always nice at their place
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: did you made up your mind about the receiver yet?
<ducasse> i'm thinking about it over the weekend, there are a couple of other things i'd also like to have money for.
<lotuspsychje> wich are?
<lotuspsychje> excuse my curiosity :p
<ducasse> one more screen for my desktop, for example :)
<lotuspsychje> great
<ducasse> we'll see, i'll do some thinking.
<lotuspsychje> stores should have a formula, when interested in more devices you get 30% off
<lotuspsychje> we are always too gentle
<ducasse> oooh, yes!
<lotuspsychje> screen, receiver and new raspberyPI for 500$ lol
<ducasse> :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the uncle of my gf, goes to the trash park often, and gets home with like tons of pc material
<lotuspsychje> for free
<lotuspsychje> you wouldnt believe what ppl throw away, working
<lotuspsychje> he gave me like 4 cigarboxes full ddr rams from 128till 2gigs
<lotuspsychje> all working
<ducasse> i know, it's ridiculous. my dad actually threw a laptop because it had gotten a virus :-/
<lotuspsychje> omg
<ducasse> i yelled at him :)
<lotuspsychje> i think ill make a free service in my business, to take their old stuff back for free :p
<ducasse> you can build machines and give to those who can't afford them.
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<lotuspsychje> got a little issue with my clevo dealer
<ducasse> oh?
<lotuspsychje> he doesnt wanna release his pictures from his website for free
<lotuspsychje> and asks like 45 euro/month to release his feed material
<ducasse> idiotic. you'll be selling his gear.
<lotuspsychje> but for starters, i think thats too expensive for just a feed
<lotuspsychje> even if i buy 1 per 1
<lotuspsychje> he says i can get discount then...
<lotuspsychje> bah
<lotuspsychje> problem is, its the best barebone company i found this close to my home
<lotuspsychje> so im unsure what to do here, perhaps ask main clevo support to use their pictures
<ducasse> what are you going to do about it?
<lotuspsychje> well i need his company, as i needing barebone laptops like that
<ducasse> this is far beyond my skillset, sorry. i've always had purely technical jobs for a reason :)
<lotuspsychje> with no Os, no ram no hd
<lotuspsychje> ill think it over for a while..
<ducasse> talk to clevo themselves, see what they say.
<lotuspsychje> yeah, think im gonna do that
<lotuspsychje> and order 1 per 1 at my reseller
<ducasse> not easy to set up a business :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah, slowly ill get what i want
<lotuspsychje> got a strong will ;p
<ducasse> seems you will need that :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys, citywalk
<ducasse> ok, have fun
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - how's it going?
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, good thanks , and you ?
<ducasse> good thanks. soon heading out to the shop, making sure i have all i need.
<BluesKaj> shop ?
<ducasse> groceries etc.
<BluesKaj> oh ok
<ducasse> there's a store a couple hundred meters from me, so it's not a long trek :)
<ducasse> really nice weather today, so it will be good to get some air. spending too much time inside in winter.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> quick jump-in before work :p
<OerHeks> heya lotus
<daftykins> morn \o
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: i got a super cheap little HP laptop for someone :) well, 15" - and sadly the nasty 1366x768 res, but it's an i5-6200, 8GB RAM and a 256GB SSD
<daftykins> only Â£340 delivered \o/
<lotuspsychje> wow good price
<daftykins> very plasticy machine, i should grab it and snap some :>
<lotuspsychje> what kind of ssd brand is that
<daftykins> samsung, must be a basic SATA one
<lotuspsychje> cool
<daftykins> there was a nice looking HP for Â£260 with a proper 1080p IPS screen, but it was an i3 with 4GB RAM and a 500GB mechanical... could've upgraded it but you have to do full disassembly as they have no underside panel for RAM
<lotuspsychje> smart move
<daftykins> yep less work the better :D
<lotuspsychje> w10 came by default?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> first build :| wiped it instantly, as well as the silly recovery partitions :D
<lotuspsychje> what did you put as OS?
<daftykins> 10 still
<lotuspsychje> work times guys
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one!
<ducasse> hi all
<daftykins> good morning \o
<daftykins> yay you brought the sun with you
<ducasse> the same to you :) having a quiet sunday morning?
<daftykins> sorta, got that cheap HP laptop yesterday and i just checked the air pressures on my bike suspension
<ducasse> laptop for you or a client?
<daftykins> client
<daftykins> i've got a Dell XPS13 9350 :)
<ducasse> yes, i recall you saying that. nice machine, that :)
<ducasse> any plans for the day?
<daftykins> yeah hoping to take the bike out in a mo since i've done the suspension
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mphzaxpfscn00cx/AAAxMSxzFI4zskjulALvNRbFa?dl=0
<daftykins> \o/
<ducasse> lookie here :)
<ducasse> i'm going into town, maybe see a movie or get something to eat. dunno yet.
<daftykins> buuut i just saw a twitch streamer i was watching play Mass Effect is back on, so chatting about that now
<daftykins> ah neat
<ducasse> i keep meaning to install civilization, but never get around to it. might screw up my productivity :)
<daftykins> lately if i find a game i enjoy i do get twinges that i should be doing something better XD
<daftykins> hmm the fancy 65" 4K OLED TV is Â£100 off because of the sales, need to get that client to buy it D:
<ducasse> there were some of those gaming chairs quite cheap during friday's sale, they look really comfy. can hardly justify it, though.
<daftykins> oh that every twitch person seems to have?
<ducasse> possibly.
<daftykins> kinda look like sports car seats
<daftykins> if i were a famous streamer i'd refuse them XD
<ducasse> :)
<daftykins> at least i figure the companies give them away
<ducasse> i would think so. cheap advertising.
<daftykins> yip
<ducasse> wonder why everything has to be designed to look like alien fighters now, have you seen some of these wifi routers etc?
<daftykins> hahaha, yeah pretty mad
<daftykins> you can bend the antennas and make them look like crabs
<ducasse> ridiculous. :)
<daftykins> my current ISP supplied one is 2:2 stream -ac, 866Mb is pretty good
<daftykins> seen 40MB/sec from one floor away on 5GHz through wood
<ducasse> that's decent. i haven't really measured my new one yet.
<ducasse> http://bash.org/?953518
<daftykins> can't believe ;)
<ducasse> no, but funny :)
<daftykins> cats hugging me
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsq68su8to3d0ih/IMG_20161127_083724.jpg?dl=0
<ducasse> d'awww :) does yours also sleep in your bed?
<daftykins> yep, but only on top of the sheets
<ducasse> mine too. she curls up against my legs, and gets really annoyed if i move around :)
<daftykins> =]
<ducasse> the snow is just about gone noe, so she has decided it's safe to go outside again :)
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> less litter tray work is always good
<ducasse> yep. i guess i could have forced her to go outside at least to do that, but i don't have the heart.
<daftykins> =]
<ducasse> wow, $92,000 so far... https://holidayhole.com/
<ducasse> dammit, these nazi spammers are back...
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> #ubuntu ?
<ducasse> yep. pretty bad stuff.
<daftykins> ducasse: did you head out yet?
<ducasse> not yet
<daftykins> know anything about this? a mate is trying to x forward between his laptop and office desktop at the lab in Japan he works at
<daftykins> laptop is CentOS, desktop is ubuntu 16.04 - he gets a seg fault on trying emacs
<ducasse> strange.
<ducasse> tried emacs here now, just popped up. that was ubuntu -> ubuntu, though. ask him to try 'emacs -nw' to check that emacs itself fires up ok.
<daftykins> asking now
<daftykins> yep he says that's fine, whatever it means? :D
<ducasse> it means "run as tui application"
<ducasse> can he try forwarding something like xterm, see if that works?
<daftykins> he reckons 'xclock' works
<ducasse> odd.
<ducasse> not sure what to suggest, i would probably see if strace could give me a hint as to why it segfaults...
<daftykins> thanks, i'll pass that on :>
<daftykins> he'll eventually have a new lab bought laptop to put 16.04 on too
<ducasse> i keep thinking about getting a new laptop myself, but i'll probably  end up just getting more memory for this and use it until the magic smoke departs :)
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> laptops are spensive :(
<daftykins> i was so pleased i could get the XPS13 for the Â£580 i scored it for
<daftykins> so good :D dream machine!
<ducasse> i know, but i don't have that kind of money for toys now. that's a good price, though.
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> right i'm gonna go change and hop on the wheels now
<ducasse> daftykins: have fun!
<daftykins> mmm suspension is ace now, but i forgot the brakes
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<daftykins> morning o/
<pauljw> hi daftykins :)
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw how are you mate
<pauljw> doing well, thanks.  you?
<lotuspsychje> great here, finished work for today
<pauljw> ah... :)
<pauljw> my day is just getting underway.
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/steam-autumn-sale-2016-kicks-off-with-big-discounts-lots-of-linux-games-on-sale-510454.shtml
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> what's up? :)
<lotuspsychje> oh nothing much, we just had dinner
<lotuspsychje> yesterday i updated the ubuntu box from our friends
<lotuspsychje> to xenial
<lotuspsychje> but i didnt got rid of the grub 10sec countdown boot
<ducasse> don't you just set the timeout to 0?
<lotuspsychje> yes, it was set to 0, dont understand why it doesnt work
<ducasse> no clue, but i've seen others have issues with it in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> oh well, after the 10sec it boots to xenial now
<ducasse> you ran update-grub, i assume?
<lotuspsychje> yes, didnt changed nothing
<ducasse> strange.
<lotuspsychje> lemme check mine holdon
<ducasse> GRUB_DEFAULT=0
<lotuspsychje> GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=true
<lotuspsychje> GRUB_TIMEOUT=10
<ducasse> that's all i did
<ducasse> gah, wrong paste
<ducasse> GRUB_TIMEOUT=0
<lotuspsychje> mine is 10, but i dont have a countdown
<lotuspsychje> GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0
<lotuspsychje> should compare it to their grub
<lotuspsychje> http://askubuntu.com/questions/609431/grub-loader-always-takes-10-seconds
<ducasse> ah, i see. i've commented out all the hidden_timeout stuff
<lotuspsychje> yeah cant remember if some line was commenten yesterday or not
<lotuspsychje> and how the heck it gets commented?
<ducasse> just put a # in front
<lotuspsychje> yeah, but why does lines get commented without a reson?
<lotuspsychje> grub shouldnt timeout like that by default right
<ducasse> i can't remember what the default is
<lotuspsychje> me neither
<ducasse> i should probably change my post-install script to save the original config files, now i just copy mine into place
<lotuspsychje> newest linux shots: http://www.deviantart.com/browse/all/customization/screenshots/nix/?order=5
<lotuspsychje> nice stuff in there
<lotuspsychje> lol http://www.deviantart.com/art/LXDE-Windows-95-Theme-645546740
<lotuspsychje> now thats some linux eye candy
<lotuspsychje> hi Srikanta
<lotuspsychje> howdy Daekdroom
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: you got borderless terminal like this on i3? http://www.deviantart.com/art/2016-07-05-10-17-49-619706638
<lotuspsychje> hi brunch875
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: for certain windows, yes
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> i don't use transparency for terminal windows, though - it looks cool but gets annoying
<lotuspsychje> i set it 50-50
<lotuspsychje> and green on black
<lotuspsychje> but borderless terminal interests me
<lotuspsychje> brb
<ducasse> i have a keybinding to toggle border on/off, because i want them now and then.
<ducasse> i3 also uses the border to indicate where the split will be if you open a new window
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: cool, whats the packagename of that terminal?
<ducasse> the wm handles borders, not the terminal.
<lotuspsychje> ic
<lotuspsychje> !info i3-sensible-terminal
<ubot5`> Package i3-sensible-terminal does not exist in xenial
<ducasse> that's just a script that calls whatever terminal is installed
<lotuspsychje> ah
<ducasse> on debianish systems it runs x-terminal-emulator from the alternatives system.
<lotuspsychje> i see
<ducasse> oh, first it checks if $TERMINAL is set
<lotuspsychje> bbl mate, coffee and movies :p
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> firefox 57 is defenatly slower the previous
<lotuspsychje> its like those dots keep loading
<lotuspsychje> and hangs at TLS handshakes etc
<lotuspsychje> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<lotuspsychje> at least ducasse will wakeup soon lol
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: i'm awake :) good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> hey hey ducasse
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> another week of work
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: you tested FF 57 speed?
<EriC^^> heya lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> hey lordievader
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Unpacked the tar, haven't really played with it yet.
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: You?
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^
<lordievader> How are you?
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<lordievader> Doing good here, waking up :)
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: feeling bit slow on my side
<EriC^^> maybe it's your internet lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> feels more responsive, quick to load for me
<lordievader> Hmm, it is supposed to be much quicker.
<lotuspsychje> not sure why
<lotuspsychje> those blue dots keep going back n forth
<lotuspsychje> and TLS handshakes lag
<EriC^^> must be isp stuff
<EriC^^> the app itself feels quicker
<lordievader> Yeah, that doesn't really sound like Firefox's fault.
<lordievader> Or at least, I don't think FF implemented their own SSL ð
<lotuspsychje> 56 did fine & fast on me?
<ducasse> \o lordievader, EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey ducasse o/
<lotuspsychje> swap: 0 and on ssd?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<EriC^^> ducasse: how are you?
<ducasse> good, EriC^^ - and you?
<EriC^^> ubuntu removed that mobile browser thing eh?
<EriC^^> ducasse: good thanks
<EriC^^> oh it's still there, lotuspsychje try "browser"
<EriC^^> webbrowser-app launches it from the terminal
<EriC^^> hmm they improved it, it now has tabs at the top
<lotuspsychje> goes fast aswell
<lordievader> FF 57 seems quite fast to me. About as quick as Chrome.
<lotuspsychje> hmmz
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: no dots wiggle at you side?
<lordievader> For a little bit. But then the page shows.
<ducasse> i'm horrible at estimating these things, but 57 feels faster than 56 to me
<lotuspsychje> real weird
<lotuspsychje> ill test on few other systems
<lordievader> I haven't run FF for ages. Certainly not on fast machine. So, me saying it is alot faster than previous versions... should be taken with a stone of salt.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<ducasse> i run ff on my desktop all the time, and it's a decently fast machine
<lotuspsychje> i had no issues until now
<lotuspsychje> ill try a new profile or guest account later
<lotuspsychje> or fresh system
<lordievader> Did you try FF56 or Chrome on the same machine>
<lordievader> ?
<lotuspsychje> yep lightning fast all other browsers
<lordievader> Hmm, that is odd.
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: which cpu is this again?
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<EriC^^> hi pauljw :)
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<pauljw> all good here, you?
<EriC^^> good thanks
<EriC^^> starting to rain here
<pauljw> ah, rain is good. :)
<pauljw> mornin' BluesKaj :)
<EriC^^> pauljw: yeah :)
<BluesKaj> "Morning pauljw ...Hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<pauljw> gotta run, bbl...
<oerheks> Free Cheesecake 4 ALL !!!
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Great thought ... A welcome change from CC cookies :)
<immu> :)
<immu> hi oerheks
<immu> Bashing-om,
<Bashing-om> immu: :)
<immu> whats up\
<lotuspsychje> good evening guys
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: CPU:       Dual core AMD C-60 APU with Radeon HD Graphics
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I run a dual core Athlon system . no issues with FF on 3rd day .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: speed double or not?
<lotuspsychje> i dont have real issues, but speed is bit dissapointing
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well .. As I am testing FF from chromium prior .. FF is just a tad bit faster than chromium .
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/11/20/firefox-private-browsing-vs-chrome-incognito/
<EriC^^> hey guys
<EriC^^> what's cooking?
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: did you try running ff from a terminal?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Meat loaf :)
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: yum
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lets try
<lotuspsychje> ATTENTION: default value of option force_s3tc_enable overridden by environment.
<EriC^^> let me try it here to compare
<EriC^^> no attention stuff
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: try echo $force_s3tc_enable
<lotuspsychje> still same error
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: seems the error has to do with graphics stuff
<EriC^^> so probably unrelated, what exactly is happening, after you press enter for a website it takes a long time during making TLS handshake?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: that tab blue dot keeps going back n forth loading page
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: then i can follow loading text at bottom, as i have time to read it :p
<lotuspsychje> hi TJ-
<TJ-> morning :)
<TJ-> found a really humorous man-page Description earlier whilst looking for a file-seeking tool: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/diskseekd.1.html
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: ruled out a bottleneck in network ? ' traceroute ' .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: all other FF versions ran fine
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: was a thought .
<Bashing-om> TJ-: "simulates Messy Dos' drive
<Bashing-om>        cleaning effect" >> Thus I strongly advise you to use the original texinfo doc. ! .. Then why not just give the original .. huh ?
<TJ-> yeah... and the tongue-in-cheek "Several people have noticed that Linux has a bad tendency of killing floppy drives" :)
<lotuspsychje> !info refind
<ubot5> refind (source: refind): boot manager for EFI-based computers. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.10.4-1 (artful), package size 2877 kB, installed size 4629 kB (Only available for amd64; arm64; i386)
<lotuspsychje> !info refind xenial
<ubot5> Package refind does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> http://www.speed-battle.com/speedtest_e.php
<lotuspsychje> what you guys score on FF 57 here?
<lotuspsychje> 82.22 lol wth..
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: " 587.75 " ??
<lotuspsychje> jesus
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: want I shoul run it against chormium ?
<immu> 907.91 on GoogleChrome
<immu> 1254.16 on Firefox57
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: sure
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: chromium " 457.45 " . as overall score .
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: could you remind me about that link tomorrow?
<immu> Bashing-om, why is the score so low compared to mine
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: sure
<lotuspsychje> maybe its cpu related now?
<lotuspsychje> intel i3 and higher perform better?
<lordievader> Cool, thanks.
<immu> firefox is higher but its always hung up in getting the data
<Bashing-om> immu: old hardware ?? lotuspsychje:: how about : http://ipv6-test.com/ <-  checks your IPv6 and IPv4 connectivity and speed. Diagnose connection problems,
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: lets c
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ipv6 not supported, score 4/20
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: My FF57 3/20 !
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ok lemme go test guest FF
<lotuspsychje> holdon
<immu> ipv6 is supported but not enabled for me
<immu> or others
<lotuspsychje> ok guest account is a little faster
<lotuspsychje> so it must be my profile
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: interesting .
<immu> good nite
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: browser test was 240 there
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I still find it hard to believe my old hardware is faster than yours .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: well im over wifi here, with used profile and ssd + 2 gig ram
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: More ram that I have will make the difference :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: your on cable?
<lotuspsychje> the weird thing is, FF 56 worked bloody fast over wifi still
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yes in cable : Speed 47.7 Mbit/s .
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: How bad is it going to break things to purge ( and /home too ) FF and RE-install ?
<lordievader> I get 426 on my phone.
<lotuspsychje> cool lordievader
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: got cable in now, going faster
 * lordievader wonders what his workstation gets
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<Bashing-om> Gotta run an errand ... back soonest .
<Bashing-om> and back ,, not missed much :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-21
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !cdrom
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: http://www.speed-battle.com/speedtest_e.php
<lordievader> Thanks :)
<lordievader> 1343.23 on Chrome
<lotuspsychje> neat
<lordievader> 2085.27 on FF57
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> woot
<lordievader> Do you have any idea how they come up with these numbers?
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<EriC^^> hey lordievader
<EriC^^> good, just woke up, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Just found out FF is faster than Chrome in that browser test.
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: hey
<lordievader> "problem" is... I don't really want to switch.
<EriC^^> heh :D
<EriC^^> whatever floats one's boat is good :)
<lordievader> Ture
<lordievader> True, even.
<ducasse> good morning all
<EriC^^> good morning ducasse
<ducasse> \o EriC^^
<ducasse> all good today?
<EriC^^> yes thanks
<EriC^^> how about you?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<ducasse> good here, still waking up
<ducasse> hi lordievader
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> morning, lotuspsychje
<ducasse> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> tested FF57 on cable yesterday
<lotuspsychje> was double fast, and even faster on guest
<lotuspsychje> so its my profile/system lagging
<ducasse> i've been using both chromium and firefox for a while, but might cut out chromium again now
<lotuspsychje> cool ducasse
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Could also be a browser plugin.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: it disabled old plugins
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: or you mean like shockwave flash or so?
<lordievader> No, things like Reddit enhancer. Those kind of plugins.
<lotuspsychje> didnt add of those stuff
<lordievader> So, no browser plugins loaded?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yes: openh264 codec & shockwave flash
<lordievader> Hmm, those shouldn't make a huge impact.
<lordievader> Probably some config option then.
<lotuspsychje> well i got bit scrambled system also
<lotuspsychje> installed gnome,kde and mate over unity lol
<lotuspsychje> so i surely need a clean install
<lotuspsychje> to test FF vanilla
<lotuspsychje> anyway showertime & prepare for work
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<oerheks> hi BluesKaj
<oerheks> again those 2 trolls
<BluesKaj> Hi oerheks. which trolls
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<oerheks> everything will go bad, whatever we say :-D
<oerheks> all i read is some libinput issue, and nothing more really
<lordievader> Libinput made my touchpad a whole lot better ð
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<ducasse> oerheks, the trollslayer!
<oerheks> different name, different ip, same behaviour if you ask me
<oerheks> doctor says i have no pheunomia, just water behind the lungs
<ducasse> i've noticed that Lavinho has started logging on with different nicks from the same ips, still asking for help with that known-bad acer
<ducasse> just won't accept it has known issues
<BluesKaj> oerheks, wegot that guy in ##linux too
<oerheks> bad acer .. wait, is that the same as CrazyTux?
<TJ-> Wow! tried to read an upstream bug report at freedesktop.org for that libinput bug... and got (from browser) "Nightly blocked this page because it might attempt to install malicious software that may steal or delete personal information on your computer."
<oerheks> no distro works fine for his failing hardware
<TJ-> Is that the Acer locked to Windows bootmgr64.efi ?
<ducasse> oerheks: no, i doubt it
<TJ-> the workaround is simply to rename the Linux bootloader to be bootmgr53.efi
<ducasse> TJ-: aiui that was not enough
<ducasse> then again, the language barrier is a major burden in that case
<TJ-> well, as bootmgr53.efi it certainly won't work :)
<TJ-> ducasse: all the articles I researched on that said it does work
<ducasse> i didn't look that much into it, but he swore he'd done it and it still won't work. one article i read also mentioned a bios update being necessary, don't know if he'd done that - i'll ask him next time.
<TJ-> as you said half the problem or more is the communication
<ducasse> i think so, yes. whenever he's asked for something he just clams up and eventually quits, or just says he doesn't understand what he's being asked for. hard to help in that case, as i charge for mind-reading.
<oerheks> man, his rant is really going nowhere
<oerheks> on ignore now
<TJ-> Yes; after a time you can sense when the instructions you've given aren't being applied verbatim - the user's make arbitrary changes to them and don't tell you but report "it doesn't work"
<TJ-> BluesKaj: regarding your PVR disk. Check it's health with "smartctl -a /dev/sdX" - if there are no logged errors and a low reallocted_sector count then writing zeros to the badblocks will allow the device to remap good sectors in.
<TJ-> BluesKaj: as to whether the badblocks are a precursor to a larger failure; it's hard to know
<BluesKaj> TJ-, thanks for the tips...think I'll order an out boaed enclosure for it and connect it tp my laptop which has a faster cpu when I decide to try again \
<BluesKaj> outboard
<TJ-> BluesKaj: some devices develop a few badblocks early and then stabalise... others continue developing them and die suddenly
<BluesKaj> TJ it does show I/O errors with fdisk
<TJ-> BluesKaj: it's on the way out!
<TJ-> I/O errors mean it the drive firmware can't correct
<ducasse> the magic smoke has gone :(
<BluesKaj> yeah, kinda figured that, the pvr was acting up with pixelating etc even with a 90% sat signal, so i had it rplaced
<BluesKaj> no biggie anyway
<TJ-> I think my follow script is about fully debugged now - it's making support much more fun not having to chase conversations
<BluesKaj> follow script eh? , sounds interesting
<TJ-> I've a couple of feature add-ons I'm thinking of: 1) auto-post the topic log to a web server so others can read it and 2) make the topic buffer an IRC channel so other's can join and monitor the conversation
<TJ-> It's for weechat; a python plugin add-on. http://iam.tj/projects/weechat/
<oerheks> easter egg in man  https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/405783/why-does-man-print-gimme-gimme-gimme-at-0030
<oerheks> :-D
<ducasse> "what sort of test would break on parsing the output of man with no page specified? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that one turned up eventually, but it did take six years."
<ducasse> lol
<ducasse> great find, oerheks!
<oerheks> i was waiting for an easter egg, as i like this rebellion
<oerheks> yeah, 6 years, too long to take security survey serious, it should be noticed
<oerheks> what is next, easter eggs in GCC?
<ducasse> http://www.eeggs.com/items/651.html
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> omg it did
<oerheks> LoLz https://twitter.com/joesaward/status/932738294852603904
<BluesKaj> oerheks, he cloned the OS from a different pc, this setup is gonna be fulll of errors
<BluesKaj> don't think there's much point trying to help...we shouldn't encourage this kind of installation
<oerheks> true, but he claimed it also does on a live iso
<oerheks> meh, no answer, he is probably trying elsewere
<BluesKaj> that's just his first problem
<TJ-> Remember that warrshrike complaining about libinput earlier? Switched to Fedora and now the BCM wifi has no drivers
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> he switched because of blaming ubuntu for problems, so now has a new one?
<TJ-> apparently... in ##linux
<daftykins> that's so perfect :D
<oerheks> TJ-, from the same ip as Lavinho
<oerheks> ./11/15/17/ubuntu servers (freenode)/#ubuntu.log:nov 15 13:31:37 <TJ->	Lavinho: we had someone else with this same issue on an Acer a few days ago
<oerheks> ./11/15/17/ubuntu servers (freenode)/#ubuntu.log:nov 15 13:34:21 <TJ->	Lavinho: if i recall correctly that user saved the new setting but needed to do 2 reboots to have it recognise it
<oerheks> is he trolling???
<TJ-> oerheks: I doubt it; I think there's language issues plus the user just not understanding the instructions. Which is, in summary, AFTER installation but BEFORE reboot, creating the /boot/efi/EFI/windows/ path (is that the Windows path on EFI?) and copying the /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/shimx64.efi or grubx64.efi to that directory as "bootmgrfw.efi" (or whatever the articles say the bootloader name is)
<oerheks> grub was installed /EFI/ubuntu and not /EFI/Linux.?? https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=254948
<TJ-> I'm asking for a translator in #ubuntu-pt
<daftykins> Mint? *spits*
<ducasse> has the policy on supporting derivatives changed? i've always heard we should tell them to get support from their distro, so why spend time on an elementary user?
<oerheks> i dunno
<daftykins> it's down to how you feel really
<daftykins> if the ops told you to stop helping someone then that would be pretty poor form
<daftykins> Mint users however should be sent to /dev/null
<oerheks> debian users too ... wait..
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> do you still get folk lying about what they're using? :D
<ducasse> constantly, probably
<daftykins> the best were the CentOS users who clearly pasted their [user@host:/#] shells
<daftykins> square braces being the dead giveaway
<oerheks> nooo.. never noticed they held important non-standard information back,from some webblog, i heard
<oerheks> All proper and honest open people, daftykins
<oerheks> .. things have changed since your ban
 * oerheks runs with Drabber to the door
<ducasse> and we get the funny ones, like the guy that edited out uuids from parted outputs and refused to pastebin stuff without censoring it first :)
<oerheks> hostnamectl status | nc termbin.com 9999
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> hey all
<oerheks> Hi di hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi oerheks :D
<ducasse> \o EriC^^ - signing on for the evening?
<EriC^^> ducasse: o/ yup :)
<oerheks> wait, is azureus still around ?
<oerheks> grinn
<daftykins> EriC^^: \o
<EriC^^> hey daftykins :)
<EriC^^> i wonder why google hates me
<daftykins> hmm? they hate us Guernsey folk too, don't worry :)
<EriC^^> "get all comments of a youtube video youtubextras" it even shows like 9th or something with the name in the search
<EriC^^> daftykins: why do you say that?
<daftykins> well they won't even let us view/buy their devices direct solely for living here
<daftykins> we're geoIP blocked
<oerheks> Gexit !
<EriC^^> yikes
<daftykins> we never were in Europe!
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> er the EU even
<oerheks> true, keeping the pound is such a weird thing being a member of the EU
<daftykins> it is #1 currency!
<TJ-> This is a great article on LWN about NERF - removing/reducing the Intel ME and UEFI blobs and using Linux https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/738649/81007748bf15c1e5/
<daftykins> our notes are better though ;)
<Bashing-om> Do this again :)
<oerheks> something new discovered, Linux.BackDoor.Hook.1
<immu> oerheks, whats thats a torjan
<immu> or a rootkit
<oerheks> https://vms.drweb.com/virus/?i=15961534&lng=en
<oerheks> brute attack
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<Advation> Hey everyone - Have an interesting setup I'm trying to get setup. I'd like the ability to allow Ubuntu 16.04 guest sessions have access to the lpadmin command to add and remove printers. Anyone have an idea on how I can accomplish this?
<TJ-> Advation: see "man sudoers"
<daftykins> please read the topic, this isn't a support channel
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning all!
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> would firefox update use about:config settings from previous or reset again?
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<ducasse> good morning
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<EriC^^> good morning ducasse
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader
<ducasse> all well?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse doing good here
<lordievader> How are you?
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> ok here, except getting gradually buried in snow :)
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lordievader> Found your browser problem yet?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: just found out about:config continues to next update FF
<lordievader> Those settings are saved in a sqlite database in your profile, right?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: i played with previous FF settings so think it might be a mess
<lordievader> Removing the profile should fix that....
<lordievader> It also clears all the rest of the config though.
<lotuspsychje> work time, have a nice1 guys
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<TJ-> !info weechat trusty
<ubot5> weechat (source: weechat): Fast, light and extensible chat client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.2-3ubuntu0.1 (trusty), package size 2 kB, installed size 31 kB
<nicomachus> !info irssi trusty | TJ- better software is better
<ubot5> TJ- better software is better: irssi (source: irssi): terminal based IRC client. In component main, is optional. Version 0.8.15-5ubuntu3.3 (trusty), package size 603 kB, installed size 2389 kB
<TJ-> irssi cannot run my script though
<oerheks> internet relay script storage interface ?
<daftykins> i rarely see some intelligence
 * oerheks didn't finish highschool
 * TJ- didn't finish Perl school and doesn't want to - a language designed to get lost in!
<nicomachus> aw, Perl can be fun!
<TJ-> if you like your fun to be obtuse! I programmed in Perl for a few years and I still get lost in it
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-23
<legitpie> dance puppets dance
<Bashing-om> 'Nuff g nite guys
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> trying to make a w10 usb with universal usb installer
<lotuspsychje> as winusb and woeusb failed on me
<lordievader> Good morning
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Doesn't Mircosoft have its own toolie for that?
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: yes, but that one failed on me
<lordievader> Ah
<lordievader> Right... errr...
<lotuspsychje> usb/dvd download tool
<lotuspsychje> when trying to unmount, also spits me errors
<lotuspsychje> its running with universal usb installer now, but taking ages
<lordievader> The usb-drive is okay?
<lotuspsychje> yeah tested few
<lotuspsychje> the .iso is an AIO but should fot the stick
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well?
<lordievader> Yes, doing good here.
<lordievader> Fixed a problem with our mDNS yesterday.
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lordievader> Turned out the multicast traffic was NATted too...
<lotuspsychje> trying with rufus now
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
<ducasse> quite a bit of snow here, but some hope it will melt today
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> here is stormy/rainy
<lotuspsychje> my garden chairs flying around lol
<ducasse> https://photos.app.goo.gl/buNLeVVNwi5g01912
<lordievader> Wow, cool
<ducasse> thankfully, i'm pretty sure i don't need to go out today :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> lookin good ducasse
<ducasse> maybe _this_ year i'll chop off the top of that tree for xmas ;)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> okay rufus did the trick lordievader jesus..
<lotuspsychje> 4 tools failed oO
<ducasse> why are you playing with windows? customer?
<lotuspsychje> winusb, woeusb, unetbootin and w7 dvd/usb download tool
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah a guy needs to play with w10 for school
<lotuspsychje> i suggested xenial but no luck
<ducasse> right. the only software i need windows for is winbox, and that works perfectly in wine :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast & starting the setup :p
<ducasse> enjoy!
<ducasse> :)
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Good to hear ð
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<BluesKaj> oerheks, do you understnd what this guy is trying todo thru his vpn connection, seems he should use a proxy with whatever internet app he wants to use to access his own server
<oerheks> BluesKaj, not really, he wants to manage a service, but not through the same vpn ??
<BluesKaj> ssh tunnel maybe
<oerheks> another linux laptop player .. https://stationx.rocks/
<BluesKaj> sure can tell nerds named thecompters too :-)
<oerheks> British heroic indeed  https://stationx.rocks/collections/all
<oerheks> njummie https://stationx.rocks/products/b-29-superfortress
<oerheks> 3440x1440
<oerheks> all volunteers should have one, BluesKaj :-D
<BluesKaj> out of my buget I think , most linux pcs are overpriced
<BluesKaj> over my budget rather
<oerheks> GOBBLE gobble, gobble gobble gobble gobble, gobble ....
<lordievader> Nice monitor oerheks ð
<oerheks> what, this one?
<oerheks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lza51nh9co56ad3/philips273El.JPG?dl=0
<oerheks> i moved it from my desk, too big
<lordievader> No, the b-29-superfortress one ð
<oerheks> oh, yes, it looks nice, curved double wide
<oerheks> you need 8 to make a circle
<lordievader> Are you going to sponsor?
<oerheks> i would, if you needed 16 or so ...
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> i could send an email to santa ..
<oerheks> "He *needs* 8 x b-29 .."
<oerheks> ".. excl options."
<lordievader> ð
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-24
<immu> yo amigos
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<immu> lotuspsychje, mornings
<immu> come lotuspsychje have tea (black tea +milk)
<lotuspsychje> hey immu
<lotuspsychje> coffee n milk n sugar here
<lotuspsychje> i tested firefox 57 on a fresh w10 intel core2duo and im not really impressed
<lotuspsychje> 561 on speed battle
<immu> hmm
<immu> link to me please, i still like google chrome as i have more real estate
<lotuspsychje> speed battle.com
<immu> 1207.55 is my score
<immu> google dns or opendns
<lotuspsychje> thats neat
<EriC^> morning all o/
<lotuspsychje> hey hey
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> got 3 pc jobs for lotus computers
<ducasse> \o/
<ducasse> good for you, lotus
<lotuspsychje> w10 install battery order & clevo laptop sold
<EriC^> great!
<lotuspsychje> did you guys read read this?
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-needs-your-help-to-figure-out-a-direction-for-ubuntu-s-mir-wayland-518693.shtml
<lotuspsychje> does that mean wayland is unsure for 18.04?
<ducasse> here's a new direction for mir, canonical: copy all the source to a single drive, delete the originals, and drop the drive in a volcano
<lotuspsychje> so if devs are in need of our help, will we get paid lol?
<lotuspsychje> drop responsability to volunteers?
<immu> they want our feedback
<immu> its called as salaa mashwaraa,
<lotuspsychje> feedback is something else then direction
<lotuspsychje> to mee it seems they bit stuck
<immu> general consensus
<ducasse> chromium security update here today
<lotuspsychje> yeah also see it ducasse
<immu> what are you referring to?
<lotuspsychje> !who
<ubot5> As you can see, this is a large channel. If you're speaking to someone in particular, please put their nickname in what you say (use !tab), or else messages get lost and it becomes confusing :)
<immu> the devs need our help?
<ducasse> the developers *always* need help. there's plenty of stuff to do.
<immu> Mirâs next steps - we need your input! <-----i though u meant this
<immu> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/mirs-next-steps-we-need-your-input/2140?u=mohammedimran
<immu> Mir+wayland
<ducasse> any of you use steam? humble bundle has a couple of free games for 48 hours, but i dunno if they run under wine or steam on linux...
<immu> you can always check compatibility
<ducasse> don't game any longer, so don't really care :) only reason i subscribe to their newsletter is the book bundles they have
<immu> with family and work life you can just keep playing game and expect your wife and kids be amused by it
<ducasse> i've been playing computer games since i was 4, about 10 years back i just got fed up
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: gotten any snow yet?
<lotuspsychje> not yet here
<lotuspsychje> last years belgium didnt have much snow
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<ducasse> wb lordievader, all well?
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, ducasse
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<lordievader> Got coffee :)
<lordievader> How are you guys?
<ducasse> quiet morning here, drinking coke and having a morning cigarette to kick the system into gear :)
<lotuspsychje> lol coke
<lordievader> I made a Matrix-Zabbix bot yesterday (or well, to put it more accurately I uploaded it to Github yesterday). ð
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: not that kind of coke ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> lordievader: to notify you of alerts?
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: You are thinking of the American kind of coke ð
<lotuspsychje> coke, and beef in the morning
<lordievader> ducasse: Err, a script takes care of that. The idea of this bot is more on demand trigger requests. And ultimately being able to ack them.
<ducasse> ah, right. cool. i don't really use any kind of monitoring except a small mrtg thing called routers2
<lordievader> We already had a bot spewing zabbix notifications into a channel. But I wanted the ability of acking certain triggers from the same channel, rather than opening a web page and acking it there.
<ducasse> of course, i see the point. i'm just not quite awake yet, so couldn't offer a better guess :)
<ducasse> how do you like zabbix compared to the other options?
<lordievader> I've only ever used Nagios before. Compared to Nagios it is much better.
<ducasse> easier to work with, or? i tried nagios, but found it a bit unwieldy...
<lordievader> Zabbix has its own quirks.
<lordievader> I find zabbix a whole lot friendlier than Nagios.
<lordievader> Zabbix also does graphs ð
<ducasse> nice, good to know. i originally just wanted something to graph a few parameters from here and there when i looked at monitoring tools, but i don't think i tested zabbix.
<lordievader> Configuring Zabbix for the first time may be a daunting task.
<immu> hey lordievader ducasse lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Hey immu
<lotuspsychje> skype app from windows store failed mehh
<lotuspsychje> for a better experience download the skype app from the store..
<lotuspsychje> telegram desktop exe for windows failed aswell
<lotuspsychje> its my lucky day
<lotuspsychje> jesus..
<lotuspsychje> bbl guyes work time
<lotuspsychje> ; )
<Ben64> that guy is annoying
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<jink> Howdy
<JustCurious> Hello, I am doing some tests with Ubuntu 12.04 (EOL version), I am trying to install the newest kernel (3.4)
<JustCurious> I mean, the newest kernel for that version
<JustCurious> I've downloaded the kernel .deb on http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<JustCurious> and I've installed them, but when I reboot it freezes
<JustCurious> and I have to go back to the kernel 1.13.0-32
<JustCurious> sorry, 3.13.0-32
<JustCurious> any ideas?
<daftykins> aww JustCurious left, i wanted to highlight EOL means EOL - and no support channel means no support channel
<oerheks> i answered him in ubuntu+1, but surely he didn't fix it
<daftykins> :D
<oerheks> j #EOLubuntu
<ducasse> some doofus earlier today asked a question, but left after less than a minute and a half without an answer. i think some of these people think irc means instant reply chat :)
<immu> ducasse,  lol
<daftykins> well they pay for answers! :)
<nicomachus> uhhh where's my check
<ducasse> it's in the mail, nicomachus - promise ;)
<nicomachus> send me the tracking number or I don't believe you
<ducasse> :D
<daftykins> you may have a cheque ;D
<immu> Payfor your answers
 * oerheks surely is in debt now
<oerheks> who said anything about refunds?
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<immu> hiii
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> whats a black friday lol
<Ben64> well, we found the problem
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Ben64> : / i have no usable scrollbars
<lotuspsychje> !krack
<ubot5> KRACK is a group of attacks against the wireless WPA2 protocol and related software. Ubuntu clients are protected against it if they are updated; see https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3455-1/ for details. Networking equipment needs updating if using 802.11r, repeater mode, or other AP-as-client configurations, which most are not. See https://www.krackattacks.com/ for technical details.
<ducasse> good morning!
<lotuspsychje> have a nice day guys, shopping time ; )
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje , have fun!
<lotuspsychje> tnx EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys
<ducasse> morning EriC^^ - all good today?
<EriC^^> morning ducasse
<EriC^^> yup thanks, you?
<ducasse> good so far :) hoping for a quiet, uneventful day - got a few things to do.
<ducasse> how's it going with your site - is it finished now?
<EriC^^> ducasse: cool, yup it's done, fixed a few bugs yesterday
<EriC^^> i think it won't make any money though, so i think i'll leave it as is and without any ads or anything
<EriC^^> i get like 20 users / day , i think max 100 / day will happen if google actually starts listing the site, they're coming mostly from duckduckgo.com :D
<ducasse> :)
<EriC^^> anyways as long as few people are getting something out of it i'm pretty happy, i'm sort of excited on xmas to put santa hats and stuff and on other holidays tweak some stuff :)
<ducasse> see it as a learning experience :)
<EriC^^> yup :)
<ducasse> what language did you code it in?
<ducasse> i'm thinking of how bad an idea it is to tell someone to add a dns server to the end of /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head...
<ducasse> i'll sum up the proper ways to do it, but as a quick fix...
<EriC^^> ducasse: it's in php/javascript and uses some bash scripts
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> \o lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> ok here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good :)
<ducasse> not too cold today, which is a bonus :)
<lordievader> True
<immu> hey ducasse lordievader
<lordievader> Hey immu
<immu> whats up
<lordievader> Doing good here, working on a bit of code.
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> lordievader: don't let the code beat you, show it who's boss! ;)
<lordievader> Hahaha, luckily this is a personal code job :P
<Ben64> holy crap i hate javascript
<immu> i am good too lordievader
<lordievader> Ben64: Who doesn't?
<lordievader> The only good thing about JS is NanananananaBatman!
<Ben64> i never really used it before
<Ben64> have to for this one project and it's awful
<lordievader> For those who don't know what I am talking about: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
<Ben64> funny
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<EriC^^> hey lordievader Ben64 BluesKaj
<EriC^^> hey immu
<BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^
<lordievader> He EriC^^ , BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader
<Ben64> hey
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj :)
<Ben64> its so late, but i gotta finish this website junk
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse :-)
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<immu> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> hey *.everyone :)
<immu> i was playing with my kids
<immu> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<immu> whats up
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<oerheks> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks :p
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: main also still waking up so ti seems :p
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. Pleased you are stil here :) .
<lotuspsychje> main going slowly up as i came in :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Un-believeable that week end support is so slow !
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> hey there pauljw
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje, how's it going? :)
<lotuspsychje> great here mate bout you?
<pauljw> great, thanks.
<lotuspsychje> sold few items again
<pauljw> awesome!!
<lotuspsychje> laptop & battery and win10 job
<pauljw> :) win10 will keep you working forever.
<lotuspsychje> lol after 5min win work ive had it again already
<lotuspsychje> the waiting time and find what you look for..terrible
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: but that guy needed it for school, so..
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)
<lotuspsychje> never heared of this before, now it comes flowing into belgium lol
<lotuspsychje> all webshops are spamming those
<pauljw> you'll never be the same...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pauljw> pretty soon you'll be sending emails advertising Black Friday deals yourself. :)
<lotuspsychje> oh no i dont
<pauljw> you will... you'll see...
<lotuspsychje> nop :p
<pauljw> heheh.
<lotuspsychje> ill always try to deal fair
<lotuspsychje> with personal service
<lotuspsychje> every day is black
<pauljw> that's noble of you, you'll get over it.  mark my words...  Black Friday deals at LotusComputers is coming...
<lotuspsychje> haha
<pauljw> :D
<lotuspsychje> i have a secret mission with my biz
<lotuspsychje> waking up users from the sheeple
<lotuspsychje> profit i dont really care
<pauljw> ah, gotcha.  then it's a non-profit charity and not a business?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: if i can live from it without loosing its good
<pauljw> uh huh, but that living from it is profit which is pretty important if you wish to eat.
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-26
<oerheks> spoiler, Ben64  :-D
<Ben64> :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> dax: can you delete the #ubuntu-touch part from topic here :p
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-discuss to: Welcome to #ubuntu-discuss. This is a channel for high quality on-topic non-support discussions about Ubuntu | Non Ubuntu stuff to #ubuntu-offtopic or the relevant other channel | We follow the CoC at all times here | No ranting here please
<dax> done'd
<lotuspsychje> tnx mate
<ducasse> good morning all
<Bashing-om> ducasse: :)
<EriC^^> morning all
<ducasse> hi EriC^^ - bright-eyed and bushy-tailed? :)
<EriC^^> ducasse: :)
<EriC^^> how are you today?
<ducasse> almost awake by now :)
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & EriC^^
<ducasse> good morning lotuspsychje :)
<ducasse> had breakfast yet? :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: just finished :p
<lotuspsychje> this morning bath and delivery of w10 laptop
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj - up this early on a sunday? :*)
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, yeah, i went to bed early kast night, so i woke up at 4AM...probly have a nap later this aft
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<ducasse> doing some chores here, got to fill the day somehow :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: snow still available?
<ducasse> yup, but melting a bit today. luna still wants nothing to do with it, though :)
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<BluesKaj> gonna be  mild here +10 by tue
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/it-s-official-city-of-munich-is-ditching-linux-and-moves-back-to-windows-518709.shtml
<lotuspsychje> uh oh
<lotuspsychje> to windows10 lol..
<lotuspsychje> thats gonna be much better, safer
<ducasse> maybe they shouldn't have tried rolling their own distro...
<BluesKaj> from what i read, there was alot mistakes made and also there was pressure and incentives from MS....but they'll regret the change in a yr or 2
<lotuspsychje_> ubuntu to the rescue
<ducasse> ms is allergic to playing fair, that's well-known
<lotuspsychje_> someone promised a good deal
<EriC^^> hey all
<BluesKaj> fair, hehe their whole philosophy is predatory, fair doen't exist in their vobaulary
<BluesKaj> vocabulart eveb
<BluesKaj> oops ...need more light
<ducasse> "if you buy from us, we give the people who make that decision $100k each"
<BluesKaj> I'm sure they'll regret it the regression
<ducasse> the problem was the users, aiui
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I guess MS is more effective ar herding sheep than Linux
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> sheeple worked
<Nokaji> ms's biggest fear would be that a trend was started - it is worth their losing money on any 'deal' to prevent that
<lotuspsychje> +1 Nokaji
<lotuspsychje> now munich will find out whats real money..it wont stop after 100million
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<EriC^^_> just installed ubuntu 17.10 on my spare laptop
<EriC^^_> damn alt+tab doesn't have a show desktop?
<EriC^^_> alt+space then 'n' doesn't minimize too wth
<aloe_v3ra> Good evening
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<EriC^^> eveninig lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ wb
<EriC^^> thx
<lotuspsychje> digested your pizza :p
<lotuspsychje> we had pancakes & bread after
<EriC^^> haha yeah :D
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ready for the new jurassic park
<lotuspsychje> comingsoon.com lol
<EriC^^> movie?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.comingsoon.net/trailers
<lotuspsychje> juraasic world..something
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you seen anything good lately?
<EriC^^> not really
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: that jackie chan movie looks good to me
<EriC^^> which one?
<lotuspsychje> erm some bombing movie in theaters
<lotuspsychje> the foreigner
<lotuspsychje> 7.2 imdb
<EriC^^> ah i saw the thumbnail
<EriC^^> wow he looks so old than he used to look
<lotuspsychje> im sure they say the same thing about us
<EriC^^> reminds me of "collateral" by arnold schwarziniger
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> lol no i mean he looks pretty old since his last movies, gray hair etc
<EriC^^> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615160/
<lotuspsychje> the commuter seems also nice, with liam neeson
<EriC^^> pierce brosnan is in the foreigner movie
<lotuspsychje> oh? didnt see
<EriC^^> anybody good with dns cname stuff?
<lotuspsychje> not me :p
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, I just use my ISPs dns nameservers in /etc/systemd/resolved.conf and it works for my static IP with ifupdown installed instead of using NM
<BluesKaj> static settings are in /etc/network/interfaces
<EriC^^> it's about a domain, not my own pc BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> ahh ok
<EriC^^> thx anyways
<BluesKaj> heh
<ducasse> EriC^^: what's your question?
<EriC^^> i got it solved ducasse, thanks anyways :)
<ducasse> cname records aren't really very mysterious :)
<EriC^^> yeah :)
<ducasse> my mikrotik router comes with a ddns service built-in, but the hostname you get consists of a long, impossible-to-remember string, so i set up a cname record for home.mydomain.com to point to it.
<EriC^^> that's pretty neat
<ducasse> easier to remember, at least
<daftykins> that's much the same as i did recently for clients setups
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<EriC^^> nighty night all
<oerheks> :-)
<EriC^^> :)
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> sleep well
<Nokaji> ciao ...
