#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-10
* volvoguy is not dead.
<volvoguy> but close, i feel. 
<volvoguy> so is anyone awake? i thought that email from jdub a few days ago was implying that canonical were going to use their own artwork for breezy, but he asked today if we had anything ready for october's calendar wallpaper. 
<mpathy> Hi there..
<mpathy> I have some license choosing problems ;)
<mpathy> We try to establish a ubuntu pdf-zine, host it on sourceforge, and now I had to choose a appropriate license.. the product is closed (-> PDF) but the text of the articles and the pictures are allowed to used freely.. what would be the best license?
<derek[] > Hallo
<mpathy> derek[] : hi! :) do you know sth. about license?
<derek[] > which license?
<mpathy> derek[] :  We try to establish a ubuntu pdf-zine, host it on sourceforge, and now I had to choose a appropriate license.. the product is closed (-> PDF) but the text of the articles and the pictures are allowed to used freely.. what would be the best license?
<derek[] > GPL doesn't fit?
<derek[] > what's that pdf-zine?
<derek[] > mpathy, ?
<kamstrup> mpathy: You place a license on the _contents_ separately from the pdf-file itself.
<kamstrup> Isn't there a CC license with a "no derivatives" clause..? Maybe that would fit both articles and the pdf...
<kamstrup> Haven't read the license though.
<mpathy> I thought of CC also, but there is no CC in the license selection box in sourceforge, or I only didnt see it.. :o(
<mpathy> derek[] : its a pdf zine and because of that its not really "source"
<derek[] > can i see it?
<mpathy> right now, there are only some of the articles done.( perhaps it will be translated and get international and someone put it in the repository? like the linux-gazette? *gg*)
<derek[] > ok
<derek[] > wb lllmanulll 
<lllmanulll> :)
<klepas> Anyone home?
* klepas tried to change topic slighly
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:klepas] : Wrap up for Breezy and get a coherent development framework ready early in the Dapper cycle. Could we perhaps plan a meeting in either #ubuntu-artwork or the #ubuntu-meeting channel to discuss this development framework?
<klepas> Woohoo. :)
<derek[] > yo
<derek[] > :)
<klepas> Hullo! :)
<derek[] > GTK apps are so slow
<klepas> really?
<klepas> they're fast for me
<klepas> :)
<klepas> even under KDE
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > system configuration?
<klepas> AMD Sempron 2.2 Ghz
<klepas> 512 RAM
<klepas> DDR
<klepas> :)
* klepas needs to go
<klepas> sci-fi evening
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > you must have a graphic accelerator?
<derek[] > card
<klepas> nup
<klepas> simple graphics card
<klepas> basic one.
<klepas> I can't run tuxracer
<klepas> because of my video card
<lllmanulll> which is ?
<klepas> a 3D game
<klepas> of tux sliding down a hill
<klepas> on his tummy/belly
<klepas> you control him
<klepas> and try to steer him to correctly
<lllmanulll> I mean, which is your card :)
<klepas> and collect these herring
<klepas> oh.
<klepas> :D
<klepas> i wish i could tell you...
<klepas> i don't know how to find out :(
<lllmanulll> ah
<lllmanulll> lspci ?
* klepas is confused...
<lllmanulll> just open a terminal and run lspci :)
<klepas> $ lspci
<klepas> didn't do anything
<lllmanulll> It's like "ls" (list), for PCI cards (including AGP, actually)
<lllmanulll> ah ?
<lllmanulll> Did you press enter ? :-p
<klepas> yes
<klepas> :D
<lllmanulll> That's weird
<lllmanulll> Are you running Ubuntu ?
<klepas> no
<klepas> Suse currently
<klepas> apropos turned up this:
<klepas> lspci (8)            - list all PCI devices
<lllmanulll> Ah, well that might be your problem ;-)
<lllmanulll> Yup, that's her all right
<klepas> still won't work
<klepas> :(
<klepas> and i can't remember the KDE sys info app
<lllmanulll> Anyway, nevermind, getting the 3D acceleration to work when it doesn't work out of the box can be tricky
* klepas feels like such a newbie
<klepas> i don't need it to work
<klepas> i need to go
<klepas> be back in about an hour
<lllmanulll> But you could consider installing Ubuntu, the probability it'll work out of the box would be higher
<lllmanulll> bye :)
<klepas> i dual boot breezy preview and Suse
<klepas> cheers
<klepas> oh, and check the channel topic
<klepas> and the mailing list
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> cheers
<klep[a] s> Moin all
<klep[a] s> good night, i'm off to sleep a wee bit
<klep[a] s> :)
<mpathy> hi there
<mpathy> I got a question - would it be possible to make a webshop with shirts etc. with the logo of ubuntuusers.de which is including the ubuntu logo, where people can buy these things and donate for our server costs etc. at the same time?
<mpathy> or is there a conflict with a license?
<mpathy> (today I only got licensing questions *g*)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-11
<anivair> hey, look at that, i found this channel after all.  
<anivair> I was concerned
<klepas> Anyone awake?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-12
<volvoguy> hi all. i'm testing lightweight window managers and a console irc client for a server-ish machine i'm putting together. it's a little weird so i probably won't last long. :)
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> good luck :)
<volvoguy> i think blackbox is going to win.
<klepas> yea
<klepas> blackbox or flux are nice
<volvoguy> haven't tried flux yet - on breezy they have conflicting packages. i'll get to it eventually though. 
<volvoguy> so what'd you all think of jdub's last email? 
<klepas> *looks*
<klepas> oh
<klepas> the october calender pic
<klepas> mhh
<volvoguy> in the one right before that i got the impression that they were going to use their own artwork. then he sends out another one a few days after our deadline asking if we have any calendar artwork ready for october. doh!
<klepas> not too involved in the calendar stuff
<klepas> not even sure what theme we are using for the calendar pics
<volvoguy> you guys didn't make any decisions without me? i've been kinda dead the last week or so. 
<klepas> no
<klepas> none
* klepas is sad
<volvoguy> k. 
<klepas> school resumes on monday :(
<klepas> means next to no time for my net activities
<volvoguy> well, kamstrup and i put a ton of time into voting on cool backgrounds, so i sent our favorites list to jeff - but that's about all we had considering we thought we were off the hook with breezy. 
<klepas> yea
<klepas> you don't by any chances have a link to the logs?
<klepas> handy anywhere there...?
<volvoguy> what i'm thinkin', and maybe ogra can help us with this eventually, is to put together an "ubuntu-artwork-extras" package for universe until we have a nifty app for ubuntu that pulls stuff off art.ubuntu.com.
<volvoguy> ummm..... not handy. lets see.... what window manager am i using? 
<volvoguy> i don't know how to do multi window chats in this client. if you go into #ubuntu, you should see the link to their logs. ours are in the same general location - just named ubuntu-art or something. 
<volvoguy> wait..... i might have it....
<volvoguy> here's where ALL the logs are http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<klepas> cheers
<volvoguy> we're ubuntu-artwork
<volvoguy> (obviously) :)
<klepas> :)
<klepas> i really like the idea about packaging our own little thing in the universe repos.
<klepas> :)
<klepas> But I also have another issue i want to raise
<volvoguy> what's that? 
<klepas> for now, just with one person
<klepas> I didn't like the art-web system
<klepas> lacks a lot of functionality
<klepas> I am exploring installing the CMS that GNOME-Look uses
<klepas> and installing that on my server
<klepas> make it fully functionall
<klepas> add a few items already found in AUC
<klepas> and then open the ports
<klepas> and show this to the art team
<klepas> give the current admins of AUC admin access 
<volvoguy> yeah. i kinda know what you mean. we were in a rush to get a site up, and theirs looked cool - unfortunately we didn't really know how it worked behind the scenes. 
<klepas> and see what people think about perhaps putting this sort of CMS on AUC
<klepas> well then we should really change soon
<klepas> because the more we use the art-web system the more dependant we will make ourselves
<klepas> and the more work a change will be
<volvoguy> i don't know if we'd be able to get canonical to switch at this point or not. one of the big deals with that AGO code is that it's backend easily ties in with the gnome-art app (and presumably other apps, although gnome-art cvs versions already can access our site). 
<klepas> yes
<klepas> i know that KDE has made an app that interacts with KDE-look
<klepas> namely their wallpapers
<klepas> i can click on my desktop, go tot configure and click "get more wallpapers"
<klepas> very handy
<volvoguy> gnome-look.org is almost overkill, but i agree that ubuntu's popularity may be more than our current system can handle. it requires lots of adimin time.
<klepas> I am sure this would be easily changed to include more things
<klepas> that is what annoys me the most
<klepas> and the GNOME-look type CMS is so much more powerful
<volvoguy> yeah. that's what gnome-art does - with wallpaper, themes, icons - you can preview, download and install right from the app. 
<klepas> yea, i've seen that
<klepas> it's alright
<klepas> we could easily adapt some of the code which KDE uses to interact with KDE-look
<klepas> for AUC, if we used the same CMS
<volvoguy> well, except most of ubuntu doesn't use kde. ;)
<volvoguy> but the backend stuff, yes. :)
<klepas> adapt
<klepas> GPL code
<volvoguy> i'm just giving you a hard time. :)
<klepas> wouln't be to hard to adapt and get working in a GTK environment
<klepas> :)
<volvoguy> i'm tired and sore and slap happy. :-P
<klepas> anyway....
<klepas> because in my opinion it comes down to: The art team are an art team, not a coding team, or a team that wants to spend forever administrating a site. We need something easy, powerful and userfriendly
<volvoguy> yeah, i feel your pain about the website. we should at least bring the issue up when we have our first post-breezy meeting. 
<klepas> yea
<volvoguy> right. i agree. 
<klepas> :)
<volvoguy> i spent so much time doing admin stuff as "team coordinator" that i had to stop making art altogether. 
<klepas> same
<volvoguy> bleh. 
<klepas> and when school resumes monday i'll have next to no time
<volvoguy> you can do like me and go to starbucks for espresso right before they close every night. ;) 
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> i could
<klepas> starbucks are here in down under too
<klepas> there is one in civic
<klepas> very nice place
<klepas> but i'm no where near around that area usually
<klepas> so the perculator at home will have to do :D
<volvoguy> i swear. every starbucks in a 10 mile radius starts making my quad espresso for me as soon as they see my car pull in the parking lot. :) that's how much espresso i drink. 
<klepas> we've got an expresso machine here as well :)
<klepas> lol
<volvoguy> down under? are you an aussie too? 
<klepas> Yep
<klepas> Canberra, the capital
<klepas> Andy is up north
<volvoguy> cool! i want to visit there some day. the more people i know there, the better. :)
<klepas> cool
<klepas> Yea, our clug is full of cool hackers and devels
<klepas> i feel very inferior
<volvoguy> nice. 
<klepas> right amongst the stars: Andrew Tridge, Brad, and a few others
<klepas> Andrew Pollock
<klepas> Drew Parsons
<klepas> *ggg*
<klepas> Andrew Tridge fathered Samba
<klepas> :)
<volvoguy> i need to visit my lug. they were all excited to hear that i was "the art guy" and i haven't been able to make a meeting since then. oops. 
<volvoguy> nice. 
<klepas> lol
<klepas> When you come to Canberra, come to the CLUG
<klepas> much fun
<volvoguy> will do!
<klepas> talks, chats, install fests, bycle rides around the nearby lakes
<klepas> pizza.
<klepas> and lots of other cool places to visit
<klepas> Canberra is awsome :)
<volvoguy> ahh, i miss riding my bike. (i'm preparing for a spinal fusion in november). ugh. 
<klepas> yea, i know
<klepas> sounds nasty ever since i found out
<volvoguy> that's why i disappear for days at a time. drugs are bad kids. :-P
<klepas> {{{shudders @ the thought of the pain}}}
<volvoguy> it'll be ok. i have a great doc. he's doing a "not quite a fusion" surgery, which means faster recovery time, more flexibility, and less to go wrong. i feel good about it. 
<volvoguy> but on that note, i hurt like hell right now, so i'm going to go drug up and go to bed. 
<klepas> have a good one mate
<volvoguy> if i miss the meeting, talk about the website for me. :)
<volvoguy> g'night man!
<klepas> no worries
<klepas> cheers buddy
<klepas> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-14
<marcin_ant> hi all
<marcin_ant> anyone here?
<klepas> 'ello
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-16
<derek[] > Hi
<derek[] > Hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-09
<nysosym> hi all :))))
<BHSPitLappy> hi one!
<nysosym> hi BHSPitLappy, how are u? :)
<BHSPitLappy> good, you
<fschoep> Hello everyone
<HiddenWolf> G'day
<lapo> hi
<fschoep> Hey HiddenWolf, hi lapo
<Seveas> fschoep, mjg59 fixed the bug
<Seveas> theme is coming up
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, nice
<fschoep> Seveas: fixing the bug didn't cause new problems for Kamion?
<Seveas> fschoep, hmm, text display is still broken it seems
<fschoep> Seveas: is that very bad, I mean - is usplash working properly on any machine?
<Seveas> on all x86 machines with no framebuffer (the default) it is broken
<Seveas> so, the large majority
<fschoep> Oh dear
<fschoep> Did we have it working once previously?
<fschoep> Except for PPC
<HiddenWolf> Yes, for dapper. ;)
<fschoep> Right ;)
<Seveas> for edgy it was working as well, but not on all hardware
<Seveas> this was a fix to get it working on more hardware
<fschoep> I see
<Seveas> anyway, the progressbar now looks ok
<fschoep> That's great
<fschoep> and the logo is animated?
<Seveas> yes
<fschoep> awesome
<nysosym> hi all :)
<fschoep> hi nysosym
<nysosym> hi frank :)
<nysosym> how are u? :)
<fschoep> fine thanks, you?
<nysosym> fine, like ever :D
<fschoep> Good to hear
<nysosym> any news? :D
<fschoep> Not really, for it's been a bit quiet over the weekend
<nysosym> fschoep: yes, i know.. :-/
<nysosym> any new wallpaper concepts? :D
<fschoep> nysosym: working on them
<fschoep> call with Mark this evening
<nysosym> can i have a little preview? ;)
<nysosym> please :D
<fschoep> Not really, it doesn't seem to be uploaded anywhere and we're still trying things
<fschoep> sorry :)
<nysosym> no problem, some company secrets :D
<nysosym> frank, what does the gdm at moment? :)
<fschoep> can you rephrase that, I'm not sure what your question is, sorry :)
<nysosym> which state does the gdm have :D
<fschoep> Right - changing as well
<nysosym> sry, i'm german with a stupid english ^^
<fschoep> We're trying different variations for it
<fschoep> There are some ideas on the Wiki
<fschoep> :
<fschoep> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Polish/Incoming?highlight=%28polish%29
<fschoep> Scroll down a bit on that page for ideas
<nysosym> aa very nice, thx
<nysosym> this is my favorite https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Polish/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=JAustin_gdm.png :D
<fschoep> I see, it's one of the later uploads
<fschoep> We'll discuss it tonight
<nysosym> fschoep: which is your favorite?
<fschoep> nysosym: still working on creating that one
<nysosym> ok :D
<fschoep> nysosym: all of the designs on that page can be improved still, so that's what I'm doing
<fschoep> It's hard to say "this one's my favourite" if you know there's something wrong with it :)
<nysosym> hehe :)
<nysosym> what would u prefer? :D
<fschoep> I think I'd go for a heavily modified version of troy_s GDM 3
<fschoep> But ...
<fschoep> I can give a lot of reasons to use elements from other designs as well :0
<nysosym> i understand, surprise me (and any others) ^^
<fschoep> I'll do that :0
<fschoep> :)
<nysosym> can`t wait :DDD
<fschoep> I'm going to do some development and design work now - need to log off IRC, do you mind?
<nysosym> sure, have fun :)
<fschoep> OK, cu later :)
<nysosym> cu my friend
<Seveas> fschoep: seveas.demon.nl/~dennis/usplash
<Seveas> meh, he's gone
<bersace> hi all
<bersace> i agree with Alex Fraser
<bersace> i think that le logout sound should have some percussions
<bersace> low and bass percussions
<bersace> just a though anyway
<lapo> yo bersace
<lapo> and be shorter, It gets cutted on my machines
<bersace> lapo: even the new one ???
<lapo> new one?
<lapo> probably I'm speaking the former one then
<lapo> about
<bersace> lapo: you should upgrade
<troy_s> hey guys
<lapo> I don't upgrade since uhm-..two days ago, I wasn't home yesterday :-)
<troy_s> good to see you all.
<lapo> ciao troy_s
<troy_s> how have you been lapo?
<lapo> fine thanks, kinda busy with g-i-t and stuff (apart for RealLife(TM))
<troy_s> reallife is a busy one ;)
<troy_s> bersace -- how are you my brother?
<bersace> troy_s: fine
<bersace> i got a macbook
<bersace> thanks Google :D
<bersace> I drop Os X and install Ubuntu
<bersace> without BootCamp !
<bersace> Beryl run fine
<bersace> that's just amazing
<bersace> i don't have PC anymore on my desktop :D
<lapo> beryl is the compiz fork, right?
<troy_s> wow bersace
<troy_s> congrats.
<bersace> lapo: right
<effraie> bersace: what about ppc..
<effraie> ;)
<bersace> effraie: still waiting for iMac G5 support from Linux :|
<effraie> that's right ;)
<bersace> effraie: and i'm about to give he iMac G3
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<cbx33> hey fschoep
<fschoep> hi cbx33
<cbx33> I saw the email about the sounds
<cbx33> heh
<bersace> fschoep: i think that the sound is still too short
<cbx33> heh
<Seveas> fschoep: http://seveas.demon.nl/~dennis/usplash
<fschoep> on the phone brb
<cbx33> bersace, yeh, but we can't stall shutdown
<cbx33> and some machiens shutdown way too quickly
<cbx33> all we can gaurantee is 500ms
<bersace> O_o
<bersace> so why not drop the shutdown sound ?
<cbx33> well that was also discussed
<bersace> my macbook play 4 sounds
<bersace> boot shime, login ready (the only useful), gnome startup and gnome shutdown
<bersace> that's quite a lot !
<cbx33> yeh
<bersace> i don't know how to shut up EFI :)
<cbx33> bersace, so you'd opt for dropping it completely
<bersace> cbx33: yep
<cbx33> hey fschoep
<fschoep> cbx33: hi
<fschoep> I'm here
<troy_s> greetings all.
<cbx33> hey troy_s
<troy_s> how goes it cbx33 ?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> good thans
<cbx33> k
<cbx33> >k<
<troy_s> when is your online session?
<troy_s> frank was just here... i missed him by a few seconds.
<troy_s> bersace what are you up to my friend?
<bersace> wait
<cbx33> um.....troy_s not sure yet
<troy_s> wait?
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> erm
<troy_s> lol
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> laf  = lol
<troy_s> <laf means something different in dutch>
<troy_s> <so i need to avoid using it considering our high dutch component here.>
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-10
<nysosym> hi all :D
<BHSPitMonkey> rejoice!
<sivang> hi folks
<BHSPitLappy> yo
<sivang> does anybody know if Lapo Calamadrei is used to be around here?
<sivang> is he on the art teamm?
* BHSPitLappy shrugs
<sivang> I want to have someone of the are team subscribed to this:
<sivang> bug #43337
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43337 in hubackup "icons missing" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43337
<sivang> I would have made icons myself....but I lack any art knowledge what so ever :)
<BHSPitLappy> so the bug is that somebody forgot to make icons?
<sivang> Well, if he was working on them, yes.
<sivang> But I think it was just forgotten :-)
<sivang> It's no rush,
<sivang> hubackup is still in universe
<sivang> so it's not in main presenting an issue yet.
<BHSPitLappy> I'm not very familiar with hubackup  even
<sivang> BHSPitLappy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup
<BHSPitLappy> I think the Tango icon for Save Document might work fine... but I'm no expert
<BHSPitLappy> and I don't know about usage rights, either
<BHSPitLappy> http://tango.freedesktop.org/static/cvs/tango-icon-theme/32x32/actions/document-save.png
<sivang> also, there will be another one coming eventually:
<sivang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemCleanUpTool
<BHSPitLappy> are you involved with the project?
<sivang> I'm the asignne
<sivang> asignee, yes
<BHSPitLappy> ah.
<sivang> for both of them
<BHSPitLappy> what do you think about that link?
<sivang> it's nice icon, but express "backupness"
<sivang> IMHO
<BHSPitLappy> maybe a "home/house", as the arrow's destination?
<BHSPitLappy> from the home to the disk
<BHSPitLappy> sivang, http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3088/backupso6.png
<BHSPitLappy> a "vice versa" one would only take a second, if you like how it looks.
<BHSPitLappy> ...
<BHSPitLappy> Siv?
<nysosym> hi effraie
<effraie> hello nysosym, hello all
<BHSPitLappy> ello one
<effraie> ;)
<BHSPitLappy> sivang fell asleep at the keyboard
<Madpilot> BHSPitLappy, for that 'Backup' icon, put the hard drive behind the house, with the house->HDD arrow
<BHSPitLappy> yeah, I couldn't decide which should be foreground/background
<BHSPitLappy> http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2357/backup2ul2.png
<BHSPitLappy> Madpilot, how's that
<BHSPitLappy> err
<BHSPitLappy> hold on, it got my scrap in the render
<BHSPitLappy> http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7842/backup2qm3.png
<BHSPitLappy> there
<sivang> hihi I'm here
<sivang> sorry!
* sivang looks
<sivang> those sketches look nice,
<sivang> however, can we find somethign more expressing that this will make you safe? as in backup your personal data, or is it wrong to think that way?
<BHSPitLappy> lol I think you're trying to say too much in 22x22 pixels ;)
<BHSPitLappy> Madpilot, what do you think of that last link
<Madpilot> looks OK - still seems like the arrow is coming 'forward', though, even though the HDD is behind the house now
<BHSPitLappy> suggestions, then?
<BHSPitLappy> I didn't think there'd be a lot of dimension to an arrow
<BHSPitLappy> I'm dead
<BHSPitLappy> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hubackup/+bug/43337
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43337 in hubackup "icons missing" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<BHSPitLappy> I posted the SVG there as an attachment.
<BHSPitLappy> feel free to screw around with that in Inkscape
<BHSPitLappy> I'm out
<Madpilot> I'm shutting down for the night soon myself; I'll bookmark that and mess with the SVG tomorrow
<BHSPitLappy> go for it
<BHSPitLappy> night
<sivang> hi lapo !
<lapo> hi
<BHSPitLappy> oh, heh.
<BHSPitLappy> that's interesting.
<BHSPitLappy> I wonder if he has the icons made after all.
<sivang> BHSPitLappy, Madpilot , I think this is the lapo who had some planned hubackup icons :-)
<BHSPitLappy> it is
<BHSPitLappy> For the record: I'm not a fan of the new Edgy sounds :)
<BHSPitLappy> night all
<sivang> night BHSPitLappy , thanks
<sivang> lapo: did you manage to do anything with the icons scketches?
<lapo> sivang: help my memory to emerge please :-)
<lapo> ah, the packup thingy?
<lapo> backup even
<sivang> lapo: yeah :) 43337@bugs.launchpad.net
<sivang> or rather,
<sivang> bug 43337
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43337 in hubackup "icons missing" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43337
<lapo> I had the media-tape icon for g-i-t done, eventually it should use that one
<lapo> I'd like to know a bit more about the application tho
<lapo> It still needs to be committed to g-i-t btw
<lapo> hubackup = sbackup?
<sivang> nope
<sivang> you have edgy installed?
<sivang> sudo apt-get install hubackup
<lapo> yep, not here tho :-/
<sivang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup
<lapo> can you describe the application briefly? or point me to the homepage or something
<lapo> ok cool, thanks, lemme see
<lapo> so the main backup media seeing the scope of the application should be cds or dvds right?
<lapo> bbl
<sivang> lapo: indeed. but there's also possiblity of backing up to filesystem targets.
<nysosym> hi mhb :D
<mhb> nysosym: hi
<lapo> sivang: uhm...I'll try out something with the cd tho
<sivang> lapo: thanks, let me know when something is ready.
<lapo> sivang: any deadline?
<lapo> sivang: I'm really busy these days I don't think I can put out something before the weekend
<sivang> lapo: not really. the universe release in edgy is still just to have more testing and feedback, real dead line now is for edgy+!
<sivang> lapo: that's okay, just to make sure you didn't forget me :)
<lapo> sivang: note taken :-)
<sivang> lapo: cheers
<cbx33> hey Viper550
<Viper550> hello
<cbx33> what's the deal with usplash?
<Viper550> splash screen
<cbx33> what is the official log for xubuntu
<cbx33> we need the oclour palette
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-11
<troy_s> who lives?
<BHSPitLappy> not I
<nysosym> hi all
<BHSPitLappy> yo
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-12
<BHSPitLappy> hi,
<fschoep> troy_s: figured you might be online
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> unfortunately
<troy_s> fschoep, how are things?
<fschoep> Well
<Who_> hello people
<troy_s> Whosie...
<fschoep> Who_: great to see you
<Who_> yea, sorry I don't have long!
<fschoep> Who_: np
<Who_> is jmak around?
<Who_> the GDM looks freat, fschoep
<fschoep> ;)
<troy_s> who join #temp
<fschoep> great now everyone will :D
<troy_s> unlikely
<troy_s> we are a boring lot
<fschoep> At this time of day ;)
<Viper550> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
<fschoep> Viper550: nice to see it's available for everyone now
<fschoep> Viper550: I'm sure it'll fit right in for Edgy
<Viper550> you actually love it? thank you! took me a few hours to port it down
<fschoep> Viper550: I see, good work though
<troy_s> its beautiful
<troy_s> absolutely beautiful!
<Viper550> I just think Edgy should ship just with something half different that at least "shows evolution". An updithered version of Dapper's splash with a better progress bar is my definition of "evolution"
<Viper550> *different=decent
<troy_s> absolutely
<troy_s> i think it is incredible
<Viper550> think it would look good as default?
<Viper550> anyone still there?
<fschoep> Viper550: I'm here
<Viper550> (I was just updating the polish incoming
<Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Polish/Incoming (Added new splash, +replaced usplash_
<Viper550> like my new splash fschoep?
<fschoep> Viper550: it isn't exactly "new" but it's Dapper redone which is nice
<fschoep> Viper550: I'm sure a lot of people will want to try it
<fschoep> Viper550: it's on the forums as well, right?
<Viper550> yeah, posted it everywhere almost!
<Viper550> even here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/64819
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64819 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "[Edgy]  Usplash should use black background" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<Viper550> (oooh, that's neat!)
<troy_s> thank goodness for ubugtu
<Viper550> it does 2 types of bugs, ubuntu bugs and bugging other people right?
<fschoep> @calc 2 * 550
<Ubugtu> 1100
<Viper550> oh yeah, beryl can do metacity themes now!
<Viper550> i mean compiz
<fschoep> it's going to be fun times for people doing artwork and themes
<Viper550> my latest "pimpage" of the new usplash: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1606912#post1606912
<Viper550> but troy_S, fschoep, how did you like my login splash?
<unfknblvbl> looking for a nice terminal/console icon
<unfknblvbl> any linkage ?
<fschoep> troy_s: ping?
<nysosym> hi all :)))
<nysosym> hi fschoep :))
<fschoep> hi
<fschoep> phone brb
<fschoep> :)
<fschoep> b
<fschoep> How are you doing nysosym
<nysosym> badly, because i have some cold :-/
<fschoep> oh dear, I hope you get well soon
<nysosym> thx :)
<nysosym> how are u?
<fschoep> A bit.. sleepy
<fschoep> :)
<fschoep> Otherwise fine
<fschoep> thanks
<nysosym> aahhh, yes i'm a little bit sleepy too :D
<nysosym> what do you do at moment?
<fschoep> Sitting, waiting around
<nysosym> waiting?
<fschoep> Yeah, like waiting :)
<nysosym> ^^ what do you waiting for?
<nysosym> ohh, kernel update, restart.... brbr
<fschoep> :)
<nysosym> re ^^
<nysosym> fschoep: al artworks looks like dapper now? O.o
<lapo> hi
<fschoep> nysosym: right
<fschoep> nysosym: luckily
<nysosym> why?
<fschoep> nysosym: it's the only thing that Mark approved
<nysosym> hmmm :-/
<nysosym> is the temporary or final?
<fschoep> nysosym: final, as far as I know right now
<nysosym> hmm i don't like this, but okay, how will people know. That thes use, Dapper or Edgy, there is nothing to recognize
<fschoep> There are some different icons
<fschoep> ;)
<nysosym> ^^
<nysosym> yes okay, but nothing what u can see at first blush
<fschoep> Rounded window corners
<fschoep> high-res usplash
<fschoep> but that's pretty much it, indeed
<nysosym> hmm okay, can i have a look at your work please? :)
<fschoep> Last thing we tried was creating a new GDM
<fschoep> theme
<nysosym> sure, can i see them?
<nysosym> i know i'm pretty curious :D
<fschoep> I'm trying DCC send
<fschoep> Doesn't seem to work
<fschoep> Your e-mail is (PM)?
<nysosym> can u see my pm?
<fschoep> No
<fschoep> I know
<fschoep> Eric
<nysosym> yes :)
<fschoep> hang on
<nysosym> thx
<fschoep> I was a bit sleepy so I didn't remember you are Eric :)
<nysosym> no problem :)
<nysosym> maybe i should change my nick ^^
<nysosym> i like it a lot, much better as the dapper one, why does mark criticize them?
<fschoep> I won't go into that here to prevent escalation ;)
<fschoep> it's just not going in there yet :)
<nysosym> ohh noo
<nysosym> nothing escalate :D
<nysosym> i respect the mind of mark, but i'm interested on the critic :D
<fschoep> I see
<fschoep> Well, the most important things are the colors and the feeling of "glow" around the logo
<fschoep> those weren't really what Mark was looking for
<nysosym> ok, well, thx :)
<nysosym> i hope, edgy+1 will be a little bit "fresher" :D
<nysosym> fschoep: do u have an account on any instant messenger protokoll? :D
<nysosym> * protocol
<fschoep> nysosym: no IRC is already too much too handle for me :)
<nysosym> fschoep: okay, no problem :D
<nysosym> damn, these stupid fly's make some shit on my monitor ^^
<nysosym> sry for my language.. :-/
<nysosym> but this is a real problem ^^
<lapo> I respect mark a lot, but I feel having him "dictate" on graphic stuff is like me dictate on software architecture
<lapo> btw it is fully in his rights, so no problems
<nysosym> yes ;)
<fschoep> :)
<lapo> I really hope for him to pass the graphic decisions to fschoep eventually, only issuing general directions
<fschoep> lapo: that kind of happened
<fschoep> lapo: but didn't work out eventually
<lapo> fschoep: so it pratically haven't happend yet :-)
<fschoep> lapo: well, yes - we did a lot of work in the general direction but none of it worked for Mark
<fschoep> lapo: that's why noone should complain or be dissatisfied - we worked very hard with the team
<fschoep> lapo: that's way different than what happened during Dapper. For Edgy, we built momentum and worked in a focused way which is really great.
<fschoep> For Edgy +1 we should concentrate on making sure that whatever we do fits the needs of Mark
<fschoep> ...from the start.
<lapo> fschoep: watch out, the momentum will eventually end if he end results are not very good :-/
<fschoep> lapo: right, but Edgy was a testbed to build on the community and I think we succeeded in that
<lapo> that's cool
<lapo> but I'm kind of not really ok with the general direction mark wanted, the ubuntu looks is getting very ungnomish
<lapo> and that's kinda sucks for me because I thought ubuntu is all about gnome
<fschoep> I see
<lapo> btw chaning the looks of stuff is easier with all the specs around now, so I don't really care :-)
<nysosym> yes, i think although, edgy+1 will be the rival of vista and we should concentrate more for the design of edgy+1. :D
<fschoep> Going to get some food now, brb
<nysosym> yes, i'm too
<nysosym> brb
<andreasn> yeah, it would be really cool if the ubuntu-art team worked closer together with gnome
<andreasn> I did feel we made some progress at the summit, where the artists from both redhat and novell met
<andreasn> together with more "neutral dudes" like me :)
<ROBOd> hello guys
<ROBOd> is there something being done to provide a theme in kde which makes kde applications look the same in ubuntu?
<ROBOd> same colour theme, same icons, same widgets
<nysosym> re
<frandavid100> hiya
<frandavid100> I just noticed edgy's artwoek was reverted to dapper
<frandavid100> why was that?
<AnAnt> why did you change Edgy's GDM theme today ? It used to be nice !
<ROBOd> we all ask, no answers :(
<frandavid100> seems so
<frandavid100> andreas, are you there?
<AnAnt> ROBOd: so I'm not the only one who is sad about that theme
<ROBOd> AnAnt: i didn't say i asked about that :P
<frandavid100> not at all
<ROBOd> i asked something else
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> did you guys update gdm-theme today ?
<ROBOd> i don't use edgy yet
<troy_s> hi guys
<AnAnt> oh
<troy_s> how are you all?
<ROBOd> we are all feeling marvelous
<ROBOd> thanks for asking troy_s :)
<troy_s> frank was in here, did edgy revert today?
<unfknblvbl> anyone wwanna see some cool icons ?
<ROBOd> i dislike the tangerine icons in kde 3.5.5
<ROBOd> (in kubuntu)
<ROBOd> in pervious versions of kde selecting tangerine icons was futile, since folder icons were not changing to the orange theme, they were forever blue
<ROBOd> now in kde 3.5.5 this was "fixed". the orange icons look horrible, lol
<AnAnt> troy_s: revert ?
<troy_s> anant:  edgy artwork should have reverted to dapper today
<AnAnt> troy_s: yes, it did, it's horrible . Why they did that ?
<AnAnt> troy_s: the GDM theme used to be great
<troy_s> forward your mail to mark :)
<troy_s> that's about all you can do.
<troy_s> basically, when frank uploaded the work
<troy_s> it was halted
<troy_s> so no polishing took place at all
<troy_s> which is unfortunate
<AnAnt> huh ?
<troy_s> there were plans to unify the metacity borders to the palette etc
<AnAnt> halted = ?
<troy_s> frank uploaded the 'new' work
<troy_s> including the newer gdm etc
<troy_s> it was frozen from polishing because of his dilike
<troy_s> dislike even
<AnAnt> where can I get the old  (before reverting that is) artwork
<AnAnt> ?
<troy_s> anyways, speak with fschoep
<AnAnt> he disliked what he did ?
<troy_s> no
<troy_s> for edgy there was a plan to attempt and address some of the artwork inconsistencies
<AnAnt> oh
<troy_s> for example, the distinct palette issues from gdm to logon splash to wallpaper
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> what you saw were the first steps towards correcting those anomolies etc.
<troy_s> needless to say, when frank uploaded his decisions (as artist in chief) he was trumped
<troy_s> so the work sort of got frozen in an unpolished state
<ROBOd> sorry to bother...
<troy_s> Sorry ROBOd?
<ROBOd> when i came here today i asked about something is somewhat similar to what you guys discuss now, theme consistency and overall artwork consistency
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> anyways...
<troy_s> long story
<troy_s> basically we _tried_ to address that
<ROBOd> well...
<troy_s> fschoep was the artist in chief, but ended up being the artist in chains.
<troy_s> :)
<ROBOd> how about consistency between kde and gnome themes?
<troy_s> no chance
<ROBOd> i don't mean by default
<troy_s> as soon as you suggest any form of unifying, you will get serious issues.
<AnAnt> chains ?
<troy_s> what i was hoping was that we could have developed a few motifs
<AnAnt> prison ?
<troy_s> that we could have migrated between the distributions, that will not happen
<troy_s> as soon as you offer any sort of 'unify' talk, people get very political.
<ROBOd> i mean, can't kubuntu have an optional kde theme with human icons, human color theme and "widgets style" (polyester, but better)?
<troy_s> sure
<andreasn> ROBOd: hm, did tangerine use to display blue folders in kde?
<troy_s> you could do that yourself.
<ROBOd> troy_s: why not provide one by default?
<troy_s> andreasn -- how's tango going?
<troy_s> robod:  send your mail to mark
<ROBOd> troy_s: one that looks better than mine home-made
<troy_s> robod:  its free software, feel free to voice your thoughts.
<andreasn> troy_s: new version of fyre released recently with a new icon, abiword in the works, and some other apps having new icons
<ROBOd> troy_s: and ... since some users like the kubuntu theme. i also suggest that you guys provide a theme for gnome which tries to look the same as the kde-default one
<troy_s> in the end
<ROBOd> troy_s: who's mark? email address?
<AnAnt> troy_s: so I can tell him (mark) that the old splash was better ?
<troy_s> kubuntu, edubuntu, and xubuntu
<troy_s> are COMPLETELY different projects from Ubuntu
<troy_s> mark controls Ubuntu far more strictly than those other versions
<troy_s> _far_ more strictly.
<andreasn> ROBOd: as soon as the naming-spec get implemented correctly I think that will be fixed
<ROBOd> troy_s: other spinoffs are "different". but kubuntu isn't just *any* spinoff
<troy_s> andreasn can you email me privately re that?  as in the 'ideal' format for an icons set?
<andreasn> ROBOd: just need a easy way to set all the apps, regardless of toolkit to use a theme/set
<ROBOd> troy_s: ubuntu people can't seriously expect users to stay in a gnome-only box, or kubuntu users only in a kde-box
<troy_s> robod:  believe me, Ubuntu is completely different from the others.
<troy_s> i think dividing things into gnome / kde is folly for the free software community
<troy_s> they are nothing but window managers
<ROBOd> yep
<troy_s> and your _average_ user -- the folks we want to get involved -- don't care about
<AnAnt> troy_s: what's mark's email ?
<troy_s> both.
<troy_s> anant:  he is very transparent with it.
<troy_s> try launchpad.
<andreasn> troy_s: you mean with the spec and stuff?
<ROBOd> troy_s: exactly, most users don't care. they want a consistent interface
<troy_s> andreasn: yes
<troy_s> robod:  100% agreement with you
<ROBOd> and kubuntu is *very* important
<andreasn> troy_s: sure
<troy_s> robod:  well... yes and no.  i think people care that when they move their mouse it moves etc
<troy_s> andreasn:  thanks a bunch
<troy_s> also andreasn, ship me your private thoughts on how it 'should be done'
<ROBOd> andreasn: yes, selecting tangerine icons in kde <kde3.5.5 was still using the blue icons for folders and some more
<andreasn> troy_s: I don't know all the details though, a lot of stuff still in the works
<ROBOd> andreasn: sorry for the late reply
<troy_s> andreasn:  what you know and where to watch
<andreasn> ROBOd: what about using tango-icon-theme then?
<AnAnt> troy_s: how can I find him on LP?
<troy_s> sorry guys, must run off to pay the rent :)
<troy_s> be good.
<ROBOd> andreasn: the problem is now the folder icons look bad
<troy_s> take care.
<troy_s> keep your eyes peeled for fschoep
<troy_s> he will be in here soon
<ROBOd> andreasn: i always used the tangerine icon theme
<troy_s> and he has far more insight into the whole affair than i.
<ROBOd> i just want a human theme, with a colour scheme and everything
<ROBOd> shouldn't be that much :P
<AnAnt> doh, what's his name
<AnAnt> there are many Mark's ther
<andreasn> ROBOd: do they have a weird gradient?
<ROBOd> i myself use gnome, but i also use amarok, quanta, kolourpaint and some more
<ROBOd> andreasn: yeah, dark grid-line
<ROBOd> top left corner
<ROBOd> where they should be glass-white or whatever
<andreasn> ROBOd: screenshot?
<ROBOd> i could make a screenshot
<ROBOd> but i really gtg now :(
<ROBOd> be back later ... will provide a screenshot soon
<andreasn> sure, I'll probably be around
<andreasn> catch you later
<ROBOd> i'll let you know when i'm back
<mhb> hi all
<effraie> ho, alone
<mhb> what's the situation about Edgy artwork? I read about a decision to use Dapper artwork in Edgy, is it true?
<effraie> no
<mhb> good :o)
<effraie> the situation totally fixed yet, but edgy would have specific artwork
<effraie> have a look to the topic links
<effraie> situation /is not /
<mhb> effraie: yeah, I guess so
<nysosym> re
<mhb> effraie: IMO it's a bit absurd with all the phases and all, and at the end there is little done
<effraie> it's not absurd.. it's a human complex process...
<effraie> art team is young, & open. join us, if you've got any ideas
<mhb> effraie: I've been monitoring progress from Dapper to Edgy, but I'm sadly no artist
<effraie> many of us are not artist ;) i'm not
<mhb> effraie: I have a lot of work now with my other teams (czech l10n and kubuntu testers) so I can't help much :(
<effraie> ;)
<frandavid100> hi andreas
<frandavid100> are you there?
<frandavid100> andreasn I'm the guy who mailed you about the cancel and apply icons
<andreasn> hey there
<andreasn> I haven't asked the maintainer about the issue yet I'm afraid :(
<frandavid100> oopsie
<frandavid100> what's your opinion on the issue anyway?
<andreasn> I discussed it with dholbach and lapo a while back before removing the icons, and we agreed that we shouldn't put these icons in tango-common
<andreasn> but rather fix it in gnome-icon-theme and tango-icon-theme
<andreasn> upstream
<frandavid100> I can't really tell the difference
<frandavid100> why gnome and tango but not tango-common?
<andreasn> there were a lot of bugs about the metaphors
<frandavid100> AFAIK tango common affects tango and tangerine, right?
<andreasn> yes
<frandavid100> and tango does not affect tangerine
<frandavid100> but gnome does
<andreasn> and not just a couple of bugs, but a lot of people were outright confused about the cancel icon
<andreasn> tangerine falls back on tango
<frandavid100> yeah you mean the yellow one right?
<andreasn> and tango falls back on gnome
<andreasn> yes, that one
<frandavid100> I read that
<frandavid100> but the one I was proposing was not that one
<andreasn> hm, perhaps I missed that e-mail
<frandavid100> I agree that one could be confusing... it's more "revert" than "cancel"
<andreasn> I can send you the icons so you can install them in ~/.icons if you want to
<frandavid100> but the cancel icon I sent was a red cross... not a yellow arrow
<frandavid100> I guess we keep the metaphor if we include it
<andreasn> hold on, I'll see if I can dig that e-mail up
<frandavid100> thanks
<andreasn> apart from the color, the cross is very similar to the close-icon though
<frandavid100> well it's a red cross... it has to be
<andreasn> what would we use for close then?
<frandavid100> anyway I guess the color stands out clearly enough to tell them apart
<andreasn> not if you have impared color vision
<frandavid100> that's what I was going to say yeah
<andreasn> or are in a hurry, it's easy to mix them up
<andreasn> and if it was used in a hospital, people would die
<frandavid100> what can be done about it then?
<andreasn> we need to figure out distinctive shapes
<andreasn> the yellow arrow was distinctive from the close-cross, but the metaphor was weird
<frandavid100> so it would be, either change the shape for cancel or the one for close
<andreasn> yes
<frandavid100> dunno which one would make more sense though
<andreasn> and the cross for close is similar to the cross for closing windows
<frandavid100> I guess the cross makes more sense with cancel, since it's opposed to apply
<andreasn> but then we need to change the icon for closing windows as well
<frandavid100> and the cross and tick symbols are widely applied as opposites
<frandavid100> One being "yes" or "true" and the other "no" or "false"
<andreasn> a possible way out of the problem would be to solve it in a similar way that the other two operating systems dominating the market does
<frandavid100> what would that be?
<andreasn> neither windows nor osx use any icons in their dialog-buttons
<frandavid100> but that DOES lead to errors
<frandavid100> it lead me many a time at least
<frandavid100> anyway, how would we have to change the red cross so it's not so similar to close?
<frandavid100> since the current cancel is a red cross too
<andreasn> by using a completley different shape
<frandavid100> should we make it more closed, like the current?
<frandavid100> the one we have now is not completely different though
<andreasn> perhaps I should bring this up on the tango-artists mailing list
<frandavid100> that would be cool
<andreasn> few of the tango developers are subscribed to the ubuntu-art list
<frandavid100> I could raise the question in the forums to see if anyone comes up with a good cancel or close metaphor
<andreasn> are you subscribed to that list?
<frandavid100> I'm no artist so I can do little more
<frandavid100> nope
<frandavid100> but I'm interested, how can I subscribe?
<andreasn> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/tango-artists
<frandavid100> there I go
<andreasn> always good to have input from people other than the regular bunch, all tangled up in our old sort of thinking
<andreasn> :)
<frandavid100> what abut the apply button? Everything's fine with it I take it?
<andreasn> yeah, I don't see any problems with that one
<frandavid100> and the accept one?
<frandavid100> I didn't send that, it was in previous versions
<andreasn> I'm thinking there must be some reason they aren't in the regular set yet...
<frandavid100> I guess the problem was:
<andreasn> I'm fairly new to this stuff compared to the maintainer
<frandavid100> they don't like people using "accept" and "cancel" buttons
<frandavid100> because they're too generic
<andreasn> they are quite generic, yes
<andreasn> so I guess there is a bit of interface politics there :)
<frandavid100> they say it would be better to use "print", "send", you know, more specific commands
<andreasn> yes, that usually helps a bunch more in many apps
<frandavid100> so using those ugly icons would be a way to get app devs to get rid of those buttons and use diffrent ones
<andreasn> yes
<andreasn> pretty evil ;)
<frandavid100> it is
<andreasn> I think there are some places where OK and Apply makes sense to use though
<frandavid100> of course, I don't fully get this metaphor stuff and then we have the language barrier, so it could be something totally different
<andreasn> how do you mean with the language barrier?
<frandavid100> I'm not an english speaker, so when people get too technical I have a hard time following them
<andreasn> what about using the system in your native language then?
<frandavid100> doesn't help in conversation with the devs, rather the other way round
<andreasn> ah, yeah
<frandavid100> since I don't know what the correct terms are, and I end up having problems to understand AND to make myself clear
<andreasn> ah, yeah
<andreasn> I run in to that issue myself from time to time
<andreasn> but about metaphor, it's the thing you think of when you see the image
<frandavid100> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/human-icon-theme/+bug/60424 take a look at this bug
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60424 in tango-icon-theme-common "GTK default icons used in several places" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<frandavid100> wow man it was YOU explaining the issue lol
<andreasn> heh, yes
<frandavid100> I'm so in shame now
<frandavid100> haha
<andreasn> don't worry about it
<andreasn> I have been thinking about the issue for quite some time
<andreasn> I better go make some errands before it becomes to late
<andreasn> later!
<frandavid100> see you later andreas
<frandavid100> I'll do some work too, see you later guys
* PingunZ heard rumors about edgy's artwork getting reverted to dapper's ?
<nysosym> yes
<PingunZ> nysosym, Is this permanent // why ?
<nysosym> PingunZ: it seems to be permanent, because no artwork matches with marks specifications
* PingunZ quits ths channel before he starts flaming ...
<PingunZ> I'm kinda pissed atm
<PingunZ> so .. cya :)
<nysosym> lol
<nysosym> hi Viper550
<Viper550> you saw this? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/64819
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64819 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "[Edgy]  Usplash should use black background" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<PingunZ> Cooled down -_-
<nysosym> ^^
<nysosym> ok wb
<PingunZ> I guess there is nobody here that likes the revert ?
<Viper550> revert?
<PingunZ> Yes .. Edgy will use dapper's art
<Viper550> WHAT THE F-WORD?!?!?!
<PingunZ> Indeed
<PingunZ> I don't know if the kde / xfce version are reverted too
<Viper550> no, just Ubuntu, kwwii worked hard on the new purple so it stays.
<PingunZ> nysosym, It's not a joke right ?
<Viper550> no, it isn't. But I do have an idea, I am going to make some new failsafe products
<nysosym> there are many many very good works, but mark has some specifications for edgy, he like as good as every work. But there es nothing (not 100%) what would be match with his specifications :D
<PingunZ> If Edgy uses Dapper's art I'm going to quit this team and look for another distro
<PingunZ> And I'm not joking
<nysosym> hey
<PingunZ> Not that I made a lot of things ( like troy or who ) but .. darn .. I'm really pissed
<Viper550> what program was it made with
<PingunZ> Viper550, ?
<Viper550> the wallpaper?
<nysosym> i personally think, that the dapper artwork wouldn't be the final artwork for edgy, because there are too many problems with the community ^^
<Viper550> I've decided to make some new failsafe wallpapers in Dapper's style...BUT with a new design
<PingunZ> I hope mark was drunk when he told his crew to revert the artwork
* Viper550 gets to work on new wallpapers
<nysosym> good work Viper550 :)
<Viper550> well, at least if this does become final, my port of Dapper's usplash will be useful
<PingunZ> Viper550, Respect, you keep being motivated ..
<Viper550> how you link up a path in gimp again? i sorta forgot
<Viper550> nm
<nysosym> i think the artwork is the thing with the most priority in a BS (especially today). Because the artwork is the first who any people looks, and change in her mind "good" or "bad". A good artwork is the half way to more popularity :D
* PingunZ agrees ... SuSE ...
<nysosym> (have a look on Windows Vista, the best example for only a good artwork and nothing new in the background :D
<Viper550> umm, Windows Vista has alot new in the BG, even worse - animated wallpapers anyone?
<Viper550> how big are widescreen walls on ubuntu?
* PingunZ thinks 1920*1200
<PingunZ> But I'm not sure
<PingunZ> Can't we like .. mail Mark to tell him we hate his decision ? :D
<Viper550> they might be bringing up the artwork thing in the meeting?
<Viper550> kwwii: Big ubuntu shocker - dapper artwork only! no new artwork for Edgy Ubuntu! Kubuntu and Xubuntu are safe.
<kwwii> Viper550: the first I heard of that was today
<kwwii> thank god kubuntu looks nice :-)
<kwwii> Viper550: was this announced somewhere?
<Viper550> package changelogs, and community outcry
<kwwii> wow
<ROBOd> i am back
<kwwii> and I thought the whole point was to get something, perhaps not quite done, but good enough as a basis to start making edgy+1
<PingunZ> kwwii, totally agree on that
<PingunZ> We need a kwwii clone for gnome ..
<kwwii> lol
<PingunZ> Like lokheed :)
<PingunZ> kwwii, Can't you swith to gnome-art ? :D
<kwwii> PingunZ: actually, I started off making artwork for Gnome ;-)
<PingunZ> woah .. where can I see it ?
<kwwii> I should get away from being so desktop-specific
<kwwii> PingunZ: in lots of 7 year old gnome packages (and all the suse gnome stuff up till a year ago
<kwwii> )
<PingunZ> Oh yeah .. you're the suse-guy
<ROBOd2> i'm back
<kwwii> was the suse-guy
<PingunZ> Can't you port all suse art to ubuntu :)
<ROBOd2> andreasn: are you around?
<ROBOd2> got the screenshot
<PingunZ> I did it .. my desky looks like suse :p
<kwwii> lol
<PingunZ> kwwii, http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/ :)
<Viper550> this should be the new wallpaper - has a nice Dapperish like vibe to it while still being modern... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7946_ubuntu-glow-standard.jpg
<PingunZ> Viper550, I don't really like that
<Viper550> why?
<andreasn> ROBOd2: doing the dishes right now, something urgent?
<kwwii> PingunZ: hehe, that is pretty wild - looks nice though
<PingunZ> Thanks :)
<PingunZ> Viper550, Can I tell you later I goto go ;)
<ROBOd2> andreasn: not urgent. it's just what we talked about, the tangerine icons in kde 3.5.5, kubuntu
<andreasn> ah, yes
<Viper550> anyone else wanna crituque?
<ROBOd2> andreasn: when you have time, please let me know
<kwwii> Viper550: that seems to be like another of those pics that looks neat at a small size, but has too much contrast and lines in it for full-screen
<kwwii> Viper550: my opinion only, of course
<PingunZ> but Viper550 I can tell you .. its a but .. painful for the eyes and .. not really nice imo
<andreasn> ROBOd2: sure, need to take care of the kitchen before my girlfriend comes home :)
<ROBOd2> andreasn: :)
<Viper550> too bright?
<kwwii> Viper550: way too much contrast for a default wallpaper
<Viper550> I lowered the contrast a bit... http://bay01.imagebay.com/full_view.php?view=7947_ubuntu-glow-standard.jpg
<kwwii> Viper550: the contrast is better, but I am still not so big on the lines...they seem to distract me eye
<Viper550> it's the trademark curve!
<andreasn> ROBOd2: so, let's see now, tangerine looks weird on kubuntu
<andreasn> ROBOd2: I think there is a set on kde-look.org that can fix that
<andreasn> ROBOd2: try this one out: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=44533
<ROBOd2> andreasn: PM for link
<ROBOd2> to the screenshot i have
<ROBOd2> andreasn: as you can see...
<ROBOd2> the kde icons look pretty bad
<ROBOd2> the dark gridlines i talked about
<andreasn> ROBOd2: I can't see your private message
<andreasn> ROBOd2: are you logged in on freenode?
<ROBOd2> oh
<ROBOd2> no :(
<ROBOd2> i got your message
<kwwii> I like an orange KDE ;-)
<ROBOd2> wait
<andreasn> kwwii: orange is a totally wild color
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, definitely...perhaps not the right color for the desktop
<ROBOd> done
<andreasn> kwwii: btw, will you be at LGM2 in Montreal in March?
<kwwii> LGM2? what is that?
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> libre graphics, I guess
<andreasn> Libre Graphics Meeting
<andreasn> the same as in Lyon
<kwwii> that would be really cool, yeah
<ROBOd> andreasn: now, my wish is this needs to be fixed ;)
<ROBOd> i like the tangerine icons
<kwwii> andreasn: only it'll cost me a thousand dollars just to get there
<ROBOd> andreasn: loaded?
<andreasn> kwwii: can't you get canonial to sponsor you or something?
<kwwii> andreasn: canonical does not usually sponsor that kind of thing, but I could ask :p
<andreasn> kwwii: never hurts :=
<andreasn> :)
<andreasn> kwwii: would be cool to meet in person
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, that is the best part about conferences...actually meeting the people
<andreasn> totally
<kwwii> I guess I could come as an Oxygen sponsor (get KDE to pay)
<andreasn> yeah, that would be worth a try
<andreasn> I beg for tickets from the gnome foundation all the time ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<andreasn> it works from time to time :)
<andreasn> "yes, whatever, you can go there then, just shut up!"
<kwwii> yeah, I have actually had good luck with getting them to pay for things this year, perhaps I can make it
<kwwii> we'll see
<kwwii> thanks for mentioning it :-)
<PingunZ> Ok, I've been doing some thinking .. I'm going to propose a themeteam for edgy+1
<PingunZ> I'll try to do some mockups etc tonight :)
<PingunZ> Is the pixmap gtk engine slower / worse then normal engines ?
<effraie> PingunZ: i just saw your screenshot (susified) what metacity did you use? i'm looking for it since 2 hours...
<kwwii> probably
<PingunZ> effraie, That is a compiz theme I made myself :)
<effraie> arf..
<PingunZ> its on gnome look -> xristal
<effraie> no metacity port?
<PingunZ> No .. sorry
<PingunZ> effraie, Is your pc slow ?
<effraie> no, it's a ppc
<PingunZ> Oh wait .. I just realise :)
<PingunZ> On that screenshot I'm using Gilouche
<PingunZ> Ported to compiz .. but the original is a metacity
<effraie> yes, but i can't found gilouche metacity on gnome-look..
<PingunZ> Hmm
<PingunZ> what's your email adress ?
<effraie> effraie@gmail.com (normal times, it's apinc.org, but apinc is in panic mode that week
<PingunZ> effraie, You could download the MurrinaGilouche gtk theme
<PingunZ> it takes care of the metacity as well :)
<PingunZ> I'm using it :)
<effraie> ok
<effraie> PingunZ: that's what i was waiting: no metacity included
<PingunZ> O_o
<PingunZ> Are you sure you have the murinna engine installed ?
<effraie> yes
<PingunZ> gimme a sec, I'll mail it to you
<effraie> thanks
<PingunZ> effraie, this is the one you installed http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=44510 ?
<effraie> yes, i'm using it right now
<PingunZ> effraie, And you installed the latest murinna engine ? http://cimi.netsons.org/media/download_gallery/murrine/gtk2-engines-murrine_0.12-1_i386.deb
<effraie> i'm on ppc
<PingunZ> Because .. I'm pretty sure the metacity is included in that theme
<effraie> so i build engine from sources
<effraie> PingunZ: just untar the theme
<PingunZ> effraie, http://cimi.netsons.org/media/download_gallery/murrine/murrine-0.13.tar.bz2 Here's the source :)
<effraie> i used the just previous (0.12)
<effraie> i'll build the 0.13
<effraie> but can you send the metacity btw?
<PingunZ> I sent it
<effraie> thankx
<PingunZ> But I'm  not sure it'll work
<effraie> i'll try
<effraie> PingunZ: it work ;)
<PingunZ> And .. ?
<PingunZ> Like it ? :)
<effraie> yes ;)
<effraie> just one question : is it normal that my scrollbars are dark grey?
<PingunZ> no :p
<effraie> so i'll buld the 0.13 for ppc now ;)
<PingunZ> effraie,
<PingunZ> $ ./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-animation
<PingunZ> $ make
<PingunZ> and then as root:
<PingunZ> # make install
<effraie> ok
<PingunZ> Oh .. I'm soo exited .. I'm working on a theme-team proposal for Edgy+1
<PingunZ> Hmm .. What could I pick as main color : Green, Blue, Orange, Gray, .. ?
<frandavid100> hi again
<frandavid100> andreasn: are you around?
<PingunZ> hey frandavid100
<frandavid100> hi PingunZ
<frandavid100> I was working for a while on that cancel icon
<effraie> PingunZ: green
<effraie> i never see a green ubuntu theme
<effraie> gray is fine too
<PingunZ> effraie, I doubt between green -> lime , fresh or orange
<frandavid100> modifying it a bit it has the same shape as the old cancel icon... could you guys take a look at it?
<PingunZ> I'm going to start a vote on ubuntuforums :)
<frandavid100> what's about the colors PingunZ?
<effraie> ;)
<PingunZ> frandavid100, I'm going to propose a themeteam for edgy+1 -> I need a main colour :)
<frandavid100> I'd go for green yeah
<PingunZ> That 3 votes :)
<frandavid100> in fact I usually use outdoors and a green BG
* PingunZ starts a poll on ubuntuforums :)
<kwwii> I have soooo much experience making green themes
* PingunZ is listening to Brown Paper Bag - Roni Size/Reprazent 
<frandavid100> orange is cool but it can get to your nerves after a while, green is more relaxing
<kwwii> true
<PingunZ> kwwii, Could you help mee in this themeteam :)
<frandavid100> not lime-green though
<frandavid100> please take a look at those:
<frandavid100> http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/9441/dialogcancel2kh1.gif
<frandavid100> http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3404/pantallazoepiphany3nb3.png
<PingunZ> frandavid100, I'm open for suggestions :)
<PingunZ> frandavid100, Too dark imo
<PingunZ> I'll be making a fresh look that's sure
<frandavid100> I can give you a screenie of my desktop for you to see the tone I like
<PingunZ> Go ahead
<frandavid100> just hold on for a sec, imageshack seems a bit slow today
<PingunZ> frandavid100, http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902254/ :)
<PingunZ> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/
<frandavid100> blue theme?
<frandavid100> weren't we away from those?
<PingunZ> frandavid100, I'm just used to it :)
<frandavid100> I mean I like them, but they're used by windows and macOS
<frandavid100> http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1733/pantallazo1vn9.png
<frandavid100> see, it's a soft green tone, kinda like moss
<frandavid100> doesn't catch your eye too much but you can look at it all day
<PingunZ> nice
<frandavid100> I can't see your second link BTW
<frandavid100> :?
<PingunZ> Its just like the first link I gave you .. just without the cube :)
<frandavid100> ooh right
<frandavid100> I like it really
<frandavid100> I always thought a blue theme should be added, even if only as an option
<PingunZ> frandavid100, Blubuntu ;)
<frandavid100> not as default cause it's not very distinctive, but people like blue, they're used to it as you say
<PingunZ> I will be in edgy afaik
<frandavid100> that's good news
<frandavid100> you said the cross was too dark right?
<frandavid100> give me a sec to fix it
<PingunZ> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=276152
<frandavid100> take a look at it PingunZ
<frandavid100> http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pantallazopreferenciasfy6.png
<frandavid100> http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8954/pantallazopreferencias2vq7.png
<PingunZ> not bad frandavid100 .. But still .. A little too dark for me :)
<frandavid100> still too dark? O__o
<PingunZ> Its a real nice theme .. But I need my theme to be bright :)
<PingunZ> Shiny .. Fresh :)
<frandavid100> well it could be made lighter... I just don't want to stray too much from the original one
<frandavid100> PingunZ: maybe you should link example images
<frandavid100> for people to decide what they like the most
<PingunZ> Bah .. I just want to see what the mainstream likes most
<frandavid100> http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/1258/pantallazopreferencias2me2.png
<frandavid100> the accept one is very CHEAP but you get the idea how it would look
<frandavid100> anyway, do you think that the cancel one looks too much like the close icon?
<frandavid100> just a question about the revert to dapper art... is it provisional or is it going to be definitive
<frandavid100> I mean, what do you want to do? polish the dapper theme? just leave it as it is?
<Viper550> So my wall would look better with no lines?
<ROBOd> link
<ROBOd> :)
<n8k99> hi fschoep!
<fschoep> hi
<fschoep> hi n8k99
<n8k99> sorry about all the trouble with the moderation
<fschoep> ML moderation is going better now eh :)
<fschoep> no problem
<fschoep> I'm glad everything's going fine now
<n8k99> yeah, so much easier when you have access!!! ;)
<fschoep> ;)
<Viper550> I heard there was going to be work on a new usplash?
<fschoep> There's a storm incoming right now
<Viper550> yes...severe stroms in the area, edgy users are advised to stay in their homes and lock down their artwork packages
<fschoep> oh dear ;)
<Viper550> :D just had to!
<n8k99> viper550 are you talking about the reversion?
<Viper550> Well, if we're going to be using Dapper's art now, why can't you use my port of Dapper's splash I made?
<Viper550> n8k99: yes
<fschoep> brb
* n8k99 is slightly disappointed
<n8k99> I think it just means we have a super good head start for edgy+1
<frandavid100> hi again
<Squee> Anyone know what happend with edgy's art?
<Viper550> we all know
<Squee> ok, can anybody tell me?
<andreasn> frandavid100: Totoro!
<frandavid100> hi andreas
<andreasn> sorry for the delay, had dinner
<frandavid100> I've done a couple mockups to make that icon look like the former one, and I think it resembles it more than the close button now
<frandavid100> it's a bit cheap cause I used gimp, but you'll get the idea
<andreasn> http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/1258/pantallazopreferencias2me2.png ?
<andreasn> ah, cool
<frandavid100> yeah that's right
<frandavid100> I'm quite sure anyone who mistakes that would mistake the current one too
<frandavid100> they have the same exact shape
<andreasn> yeah, we want to be better than current though
<andreasn> anyway, join #tango and share your thoughts
<andreasn> perhaps someone else than me can offer some thoughts on the issue
<msikma> Hmm, that cancel icon looks odd
<msikma> The other ones are not crooked at all, but this one is. And very strongly.
<zorglu_> q. is edgy include a theme to make it look blue like dapper ?
<frandavid100> yeah msikma it mimics the current cancel icon, so it doesn't resemble the cancel button
<msikma> frandavid100: it shouldn't. The Gnome cancel button was made to appear like a script x. This is not a script x. It's a normal, geometric x.
<msikma> That's what I feel, anyway.
<msikma> I think it would look a lot better--and more balanced--to set it straight. It looks a little awkward right now.
<msikma> Since it's neither a script x nor a geometric sans-serif x.
<frandavid100> I'm afraid I don't know what a script x is
<msikma> Ballot x.
<msikma> 
<frandavid100> the problem with a straight x is people could mistake it for the close icon
<n8k99> kwwii: if i run update, am I gonna lose my kubuntu artwork?
<msikma> frandavid100: the close icon is at the top-right of the window. The cancel icon isn't.
<msikma> It's a fallacy to say that "people will mistake it". I find it very hard to believe.
<frandavid100> there are close buttons at the bottom right too
<frandavid100> big grey cross
<frandavid100> straight cross
<kwwii> n8k99: the kubuntu artwork is not being reverted
<Squee> #join #openwrt
<msikma> My concern here is consistency. The x does not seem very consistent with the "aplicar" icon. It's made to look like a sans-serif x, but is crooked. To me, it seems like a bad thing. Both using the typeface [in vain]  and breaking what appears to be a good balance.
<AnAnt> is mark here ?
<msikma> No.
<AnAnt> what is his username in LP ?
<msikma> I'm not sure, sorry.
<AnAnt> or his full name ?
<frandavid100> I totally agree with you, I'm just trying a suitable cancel button to be accepted in time for edgy
<msikma> frandavid100: I think that it's a very nice cancel button. Much nicer than the stuff that's in Human.
<msikma> I'd pick it over the current default anytime.
<msikma> I'd still like it better if it were a "normal" x, though.
<msikma> Or maybe you could try making the x more like an actual ballot x, like this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Vote_icon.svg
<frandavid100> http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6092/dialogcancellu1.png take a look at the original one
<msikma> Oh
<msikma> That's the original Tango one?
<AnAnt> ok, if I want to suggest that the old edgy-gdm-theme was better than the new one (which is actually dapper's). Do I file a bug on edgy-gdm-theme ??
<msikma> Well, I'm sorry, but I like that one better. I just think that it makes more sense to have a non-ballot x be "normal".
<frandavid100> I agree with you, but it looks like the art team doesn't want such similar icons
<msikma> I've decided that I shouldn't bother with the artwork team too much anymore for a while. I intend to work on new art after Edgy.
<msikma> This cycle has failed for me.
<n8k99> kwwii:oh that's pretty swell
<andreasn> oh, it wasn't the art team
<andreasn> it was rather tango upstream
<msikma> I'm disappointed in some of the higher-ups involved, and that's why I don't feel like working hard to try and get some of my work in for Edgy.
<msikma> But that's how it goes.
<frandavid100> we're all a bit disappointed I think
<msikma> Well, same old.
<frandavid100> the art revert was a big disappointment for me at least
<msikma> Who hasn't done graphic jobs for people who know absolutely nothing about graphic design but think that they know everything about graphic design?
<n8k99> i think the next deadline needs to be a month before 'furious ferret' is released - in order to insure that the additional documentation such as books can be consistent with what is actually put out
<msikma> It's a real art to be able to persuade people to go along with your route, but I didn't have the time to try this.
<frandavid100> Me, I haven't :P
<msikma> frandavid100: then you're either very very lucky or you're new.
<n8k99> this cycle was truncated because dapper was pushed back, but our artwork will be more than ready for 'F* F*'
<msikma> By the way
<msikma> What about Firefox?
<msikma> I missed out on the entire debate.
<n8k99> !Firefox
<frandavid100> msikma: no, I'm just not a graphic artist haha
<msikma> So is Ubuntu going to take the extremely non-Ubuntu and non-marketable way of using a Firefox clone just so a few stupid additions could be made?
<msikma> (Which is totally not what I'd expect of Ubuntu, but rather of Debian zealots?)
<msikma> I mean, I thought Ubuntu was aiming to take over part of the market.
<n8k99>  Ubuntu Philosophy: that software should be available free of charge, that software tools should be usable by people in their local language and despite any disabilities, and that people should have the freedom to customise and alter their software in whatever way they see fit.
<msikma> So? There are non-free drivers in Ubuntu.
<msikma> Besides, it's not like the software isn't free.
<msikma> Firefox is a fully free work of software in every sense of the word.
<n8k99> The Mozilla Foundation prohibits the use of the Firefox logo if you alter the code of the web browser - ubuntu alters the code of ff - so honoring MF's request is sutiable
<msikma> It's just that Debian feel that somehow the TRADEMARK POLICY of Mozilla makes the code non-free.
<msikma> Which is why I object to the modifications.
<n8k99> the logo is trade marked and the MPL states the above conditions
<msikma> It's just stupid to get a different browser than the most ubiquitous piece of free software in the entire world.
<msikma> n8k99: yes, and like I said, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to the code.
<frandavid100> msikma: what's the alternative?
<n8k99> IceWeasel is FF, with new branding-
<msikma> n8k99: yes, which is why it's terrible.
<msikma> I don't see how you don't see that this is terrible.
<frandavid100> the problem n8k99 is we lose the brand
<msikma> Have you ever heard of marketing?
<msikma> frandavid100 is right.
<frandavid100> which is maybe the most important part of having FF
<n8k99> i understand the loss of a brand - but the loss of integrity is greater
<msikma> It's not like an operating system is something that people will begin to use because it's good. An operating system is something people use because it's brought to their attention in a certain way.
<AnAnt> troy_s: u there ?
<frandavid100> I totally agree
<msikma> n8k99: you're a terrible zealot. The software is free. Completely free. There is no non-free aspect of Firefox. At all. The only thing is that you can't use their trademark if you modify their software.
<msikma> It has absolutely nothing to do with integrity.
<frandavid100> anyway msikma what else can ubuntu do?
<msikma> So Ubuntu has decided to drop a very well-known trademark (I repeat: the most ubiquitous piece of free software in the entire world) for the sake of a few dumb modifications.
<msikma> Yes, it can not modify the software.
<n8k99> msikma: you are right - i am wrong
<msikma> If this were Debian, n8k99, I'd say that you're right.
<msikma> But this is Ubuntu.
<frandavid100> how important are those modifications anyway?
<frandavid100> do they affect performance, or what?
<msikma> It's aimed towards getting people to use the system. It's aimed at a general audience. It's not free for the sake of being a free operating system.
<n8k99> msikma: however, neither one of us actually makes these decisions
<msikma> I feel that the decisions are questioning Ubuntu's positioning strategy.
<msikma> In fact, it goes completely against it.
<msikma> Yet another reason for me to question why I'd even want to contribute to this project.
<n8k99> from my understanding, the changes which are made are security based - but you'd have to get a better description of what and how from someone in #ubuntu-devel
<msikma> I don't see how Ubuntu can claim to be a free operating system aimed at a general market and then take this decision. It's completely inconsistent with what they claim that they are.
<n8k99> mskima: what is ubuntu's positioning strategy
<msikma> Even security-based reasons are not reasons. Ubuntu isn't exactly the hottest item for a hacker to want to try and crack.
<frandavid100> have to go guys, take it easy and good night
<n8k99> g'night
<msikma> Ubuntu's positioning strategy can't really be summed up that easily, but generally, it's a free Linux-based operating system that aims to bring the power of the Unix-like operating systems to the general user.
<msikma> I'm going away for a while now.
<n8k99> and by rebranding the browser in order to satisfy the requirement of the MPL, how do they not satisfy this position
<msikma> n8k99: do you have any idea of what a "general audience" is and wants?
<msikma> How does avoiding trademark infringement have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with what I just said?
<msikma> Take a marketing course. I don't have the damn time to explain everything to everybody. Just... open up your mind and realize that "free" software (even though this has NOTHING to do with software) isn't always the Great Ideal that all of us chase around like a holy grail.
<n8k99> i am pretty sure a general audience just wants their computer to work when they turn it on, they don't really care if its MS, Apple or Linux
<msikma> You really are dense.
<n8k99> once again, I assert that you are absolutely correct
<msikma> And so I am. It doesn't OUTWEIGH the disadvantages. Linux boxes never get hacked. Ubuntu boxes will not either. So go ahead and use your Iceweasel if it makes you feel more free. You have absolutely no idea of how marketing works.
<n8k99> so let me get this straight, ubuntu is _doomed_ if they can not use a brand that nobody heard about four years ago.
<msikma> I reassert that you know absolutely nothing about marketing and that you should cease to make it appear as though you do.
<n8k99> i am not trying to make any appearances, these are questions
<n8k99> sorry if i leave capitals and quotations marks off as one hand must hold an infant while i type
<msikma> Questions? No, you're trying to waste my damn time by provoking me with sarcastic and rhetoric questions. Of course Ubuntu is not DOOMED. But it is HURTFUL to the marketing strategy to not have Firefox over some stupid silly security fixes that won't be necessary for its target audience anyway!
<msikma> I'm out of here.
<n8k99> msikma: am sorry to see you leave
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> how do I change the font colour of the Applications./Pleaces/System menu taskbar thingy
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-13
<lapo> yo
<bersace> lapo: hi
<lapo> ciao bersace
<troy_s> greetz
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork!  For more information -  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<PingunZ> hey troy_s
<troy_s> PingunZ!
<troy_s> How are you?
<PingunZ> I'm doing fine, thanks
<PingunZ> You ?
<troy_s> A little busy.
<PingunZ> ^^
<lapo> yo troy_s
<lapo> ciao AndyFitz
<lapo> AndyFitz: uhm...why are you not sleeping? :-)
<AndyFitz> ohwdy lapo
<AndyFitz> I'm in westford MA  right now :)
<AndyFitz> my friends have just come back from their friday night
<lapo> AndyFitz: wow, cool, a redhat netmask, do you work there now?
<lapo> s/there/for them/ eventually
<AndyFitz> oh yeah,  I work for them back home in brisbane..  just visiting this office since I was at the gnome summit in boston
<lapo> cool, I didn't know you were a redhat agent :-)
<AndyFitz> lapo,  yeah shadowman is my boss now
<AndyFitz> its kinda cool being able to justly wear those funky hats
<AnAnt> I found a solution for the art reversion thing
<AnAnt> I installed the old versions and set their state to hold
<effraie> hello all
<effraie> something new about reversion?
<effraie> my mail is down...
<PingunZ> kwwii, Do you have a few minutes for me ? I'd like to know where to start for a new theme. :)
<PingunZ> I'm planning to propose a themeteam for edgy+1 .. but I want to make some previews / maybe some real artwork :)
<PingunZ> I guess not :)
<kwwii> PingunZ: sure
<PingunZ> Oki, pm ?
<kwwii> ok
<PingunZ> kwwii, can I pm you again, I need to ask you a favor :)
<PingunZ> It won't take long, I promise :)
<kwwii> PingunZ: I gotta run to the station to pick up my wife....be back in half an hour, ok?
<PingunZ> No prob
<PingunZ> ping me when you're back ;)
<kwwii> ok
<PingunZ> kwwii, back yet ?
<kwwii> re
<PingunZ> can I pm ? :)
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/kmenu_snap.png  <--ideas anyone?
<kwwii> (just the pic on the left, not the menu itslef :p )
<andreasn> make it more subtle perhaps?
<kwwii> yeah, I am doing that now
<andreasn> right now it screams "Hey, look at me!"
<PingunZ> In some way that is what I said too :)
<Viper550> For artwork, think we could just have a new wallpaper and just polish what we have?
<Viper550> got my new email?
<Viper550> anyone here?!?!
<kwwii> hehe
* PingunZ is off to bed, goodnight all
<Viper550> I'm trying to get my port of Dapper's Usplash to be included in Edgy, since we are using Dapper's art now
<kwwii> ok, check out the difference between http://sinecera.de/kmenu_snap.png and http://sinecera.de/kmenu_snap2.png
<kwwii> tell me which one is better
<BHSPitLappy> kwwii, it really depends on being able to see the whole desktop in the pic
<andreasn> the first one strike me as saner
<andreasn> less distracting
<kwwii> the really hard thing about this pic is that it is greyscale and then colorized with the theme color
<kwwii> so it is very hard to simply do what you want
<andreasn> oh
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-14
<ryanakca> kwwii: ping
<ryanakca> kwwii: quick question, http://rkavanagh.homelinux.org/~ryan/kubuntu/1.png  , should I add two lines at the bottom next to the motto like I did at the top? or not?
<ryanakca> don't worry, that's just the text part, I'll colorize and emboss and add the logo and all that good stuff :)
<kwwii> ryanakca: yes
<ryanakca> kk
<ppd> hi
<PingunZ> morning all
<klepas> moin
<Viper550> Our Usplash bug (that may have gotten rid of the ugly placeholder) got rejected!
<Viper550> https://launchpad.net/bugs/64819
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64819 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "[Edgy]  Usplash should use black background" [Wishlist,Rejected] 
<Viper550> Our Usplash bug got rejected...
<Viper550> anyone here?
<troy_s> it is
<troy_s> _your_ bug
<troy_s> the placeholder was just that
<troy_s> temp art
<troy_s> deal with it.
<Viper550> but still, even Breezy had feasable placeholders (just plain using Breezy's art)
<Viper550> I mean Dapper
<troy_s> IT DOESNT MATTER
<troy_s> it was temp
<troy_s> so bickering over it is a complete waste of time for yourself, the developers, and everyone who has to read the letters.
<PingunZ> O_o
<troy_s> there are far more important things to be exerting your energy on
<troy_s> and always remember
<troy_s> _everything_ in the world is relative
<troy_s> if you don't believe me read something some fellow named einstein said about some general theory of something er other.
<Viper550> I know, but this isn't the first time we've complained about temp artwork. Remember back in Dapper?
<troy_s> which means terms like 'ugly' simply do not exist.
<troy_s> who cares.
<troy_s> its temp
<troy_s> no one cares.
<troy_s> get over it.
<PingunZ> rof
<PingunZ> *rofl
<troy_s> it is purely an exercise in attention deficit disorder.
<troy_s> In fact, let's put a poll up on the forums
<troy_s> and decide what your handle should be
<Viper550> But, people in the community are actually complaining about it!
<troy_s> or how you should put an extra 0 on your name
<troy_s> or change it to asp001
<troy_s> so what
<troy_s> SOME people might complain
<troy_s> SOME people might love it
<troy_s> it is all totally irrelevant
<Viper550> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=275477&highlight=Usplash
<troy_s> _who_ _cares_
<Viper550> "The artwork for USplash in Dapper is excelent, while the in Edgy it is gawdy and annoying"
<troy_s> yah great
<troy_s> one person
<troy_s> terrific
<troy_s> no one cares
<troy_s> and the more you cry wolf, the less chance _anyone_ will listen to you
<troy_s> Your energy would be more well spent if you focused on attempting to communicate with your computer without using an interface such as a mouse or a keyboard.
<troy_s> Brain waves perhaps.
<troy_s> The bottom line -- it is _temp_ art.  Subsection 2.2a.32 -- No one cares.
<Viper550> 10 people counted so far...
<troy_s> So, put a poll up on the forums and see how many people like your handle.
<troy_s> GREAT
<troy_s> now divide that by six billion
<troy_s> and see if you can count the decimal places
<troy_s> It is completely, utterly, and irrovocably irrelevant.
<PingunZ> troy_s, chill out m8
<troy_s> But thanks for putting the profound "...(and is ugly)" my mailbox.
<troy_s> I am quite chill actually. :)
<PingunZ> Well, to be honest, I prefer the Edgy usplash to the dapper one
<Viper550> (okay, I'll remove that part)
<troy_s> NO
<troy_s> Just sit on you hands.
<troy_s> your hands
<troy_s> Every time you change I get mail
<PingunZ> Indeed
<PingunZ> Viper550, You could let it go and try to focus on edgy+1 like me.
<Viper550> I added artwork team to it because this is an art problem
<troy_s> Travel the world and attempt to seek out change on the placeholder theme.
<PingunZ> Edgy's art will be screwed anyway :)
<troy_s> By the time you have conducted a poll on every one of the six billion
<troy_s> Someone might listen.
* troy_s is out.
* PingunZ salutes troy_s 
<Viper550> LjL just left a good argument...
<Viper550> hello
<LjL> hi
<Viper550> Ljl just made a big comment on my bug, could you give us just the jist of it for troy s here?
<LjL> well, i believe the boot-up splash screen should have a black background - the reasons are mainly 1) uncentered screens are quite evident with a colored background (and they're very common), not so with black 2) the boot process necessarily has stages during which the screen is blank, so having a black background makes everything much smoother
<PingunZ> Goto go, installing arch linu
<PingunZ> *linux
<Viper550> cool, Arch Linux
<ppd> hi
<Viper550> I can't believe we had to "throw away" months of work!
<Viper550> Everyone, I have one final plan for getting new art in Edgy
<Viper550> anyone?
<Viper550> troy_s?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-15
<Viper550> ???
<klepas> moin
<troy_s> greetz klep
<klepas> hey there troy_s
<klepas> how have things been hanging up?
<klepas> troy_s: ping
<Madpilot> klepas, he's listed as being idle for more than 4hrs
<klepas> Madpilot: thanks
<klepas> how are you holding up btw Madpilot ? :)
<Madpilot> good enough. Very slack day at work, which was nice. :)
<troy_s> go klepas
<troy_s> pong
<klepas> hey troy_s
<klepas> been meaning to catch up with you
<PingunZ> If someone sees fschoep, tell him to ping me
<PingunZ> !seen fschoep
<Viper550> msikma, you designed Dapper's Usplash right?
<msikma> Yeah
<Viper550> I ported it to Edgy
<msikma> I had a much nicer one that used the new technology for the new usplash, but I'm not sure if it got rejected or not
<Viper550> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
<msikma> i.e. this one: http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_7.gif
<msikma> That's pretty nice, but you cut off part of the reflection.
<Viper550> No, I didn't, it was like that when I got it
<msikma> Very strange.
<Viper550> I stretched it out of the OSdir screenshots
<msikma> It's 256 colors max, right?
<Viper550> yep, but I go with 255
<msikma> I'll make you a 255 colors one.
<Viper550> I think it already is
<msikma> Your port is currently using only a very small portion of the available colors and the reflection is messed up because you got it from a stretched OSdir screenshot.
<Viper550> Do you have source files for the original (pre-dither)?
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash-dapper-255.png
<msikma> There, that looks much better.
<msikma> I indeed have source files, but they won't open in GIMP. (PSDs.)
<msikma> I could upload a 32-bit PNG.
<Viper550> okay, that would work good
<Viper550> but, your 255 is good too
<Viper550> So, that's an actual higher quality version, nice!
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/newsuggestion_0_32.png
<msikma> Just in case.
<msikma> I guess this just reassures the convenience of keeping source files around even when you think you're no longer going to edit them. :)
<Viper550> I don't think we'll ever get Usplash that high-rez, but still!
* Viper550 emails it from his Linux machine to his Windows machine using his own email address
<msikma> Yeah, 256 colors should be plenty for this design, though. More enthusiastic designs (such as my new Edgy one which is likely to never see the light of day) would need a full color range to really be effective.
<msikma> I try my best to dither it properly (and not have the dithering "move around" or "squirm" in the animation) but it still looks awkward.
<Viper550> Think I should keep the glossy progress bar as is?
<msikma> I'd personally add reflection. It's done by copying the bar, flipping it vertically, and then applying a vertical linear gradient from 0x00000000 to 0x000000FF.
<msikma> (black, transparent, to black, opaque.)
<Viper550> so, you think reflection there too like the logo
<msikma> In the case of the logo, I also added a small gaussian blur.
<msikma> Yeah, but I wouldn't add gaussian blur to it. That'd make it look strange.
<Viper550> okay...I know it would look strange on progress bars, but it would look neat!
<Viper550> does setting the pallete indexes in Usplash themes actually do anything?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-08
<nothlit> another one http://www.opensourcexperts.com/bountylist.html ...and wow lucasfilm is on there
<KidProQuo> Wow, we're still on the bounty topic.... 12 hours later
<lapo> hi
<KidProQuo> hi lapo
<lapo> _MMA_: I installed ubuntustudio, nice
<_MMA_> Thanx. The dailies still need a couple of issues sorted.
<lapo> _MMA_: small bits tho
<lapo> _MMA_: the panel theming is kinda broken, it work only for small panels, you'll have the same effect with a bg with less issues
<_MMA_> Yeah. Im working with Colin today on some things.
<_MMA_> lapo: Yeah. Its known. Its a trade-off.
<lapo> _MMA_: would be just better to kill it and use a 1x70 picture as a bg?
<lapo> woulnd't
<lapo> _MMA_: you won't have issue with resizing and with the window selector applet for example
<_MMA_> We do use a 1x24px image on our panel.
<lapo> it's in the gtkrc tho, right?
<_MMA_> Yes
<lapo> if you use a taller one in the panel itself you'll have less issues
<_MMA_> But then the image gets cropped.
<_MMA_> though....
<lapo> uhm?
<_MMA_> Sorry. Lemmie get back to you.
<_MMA_> (kids need attention) :)
<lapo> you need a 24px for the top panel but you can use a bigger one in bottom one
<lapo> eheh
<lapo> np
<kwwii> panel themeing, the best reason to use kde :p
* kwwii ducks
<nothlit> maybe, with kmenu in kde4, generally kicker doesn't look so great, especially by default =p
<lapo> yeah, but if you call a 5 years old version of nautilus innovations...erm dophin even :-)
* lapo ducks as well
* lassegul just ducks, no reason required.
<lapo> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: You are _supposed_ to be able to fully theme the panel but it is broken in Debian.  A private gtkrc deals strictly with the panel.
<troy_s> Hopefully someone upstream will fix it... https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel/+bug/112665
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112665 in gnome-panel "/usr/share/gnome/gnome-panelrc fails to impact theme" [Low,Confirmed] 
<kwwii> troy_s: hopefully we will have that fixed for Hardy then, it is part of my nefarious plan
<_MMA_> kwwii: Maybe a refresh of the topic? Maybe mention the new Hardy art page?
<troy_s> kwwii: You should keep your eye on it or bug seb to heat upstream.
<nothlit> _MMA_: the submissions aren't that organised yet lol
<troy_s> kwwii: It is a rather vital part of theming, and the limited kluding using pixmap stretching is awful compared to unleashing the full power of a gtk engine on it.
<_MMA_> nothlit: Could still point to where the page _will_ be.
<nothlit> speaking of the topic, is there any date set for the next meeting?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Probably limited audience in here -- maybe elsewhere would help?
<_MMA_> troy_s: Well I was just trying to think of _something_ to put up there. Otherwise its kinda bare. :)
<troy_s> lol
<_MMA_> The topic for #ubuntu-artwork is: Where in the world is terlmann?
<nothlit> leaving it hanging is befitting of the current situation =p
<troy_s> LOL
<kwwii> _MMA_: very good point
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I'll talk to seb about it at UDS
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o kwwii]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : terlmann, we miss you
<_MMA_> lol
<kwwii> Guess I should spend the rest of the evening making a wiki page for Hardy
<_MMA_> Or watching "The IT Crowd". :D
<kwwii> instead of watching avi's from MMA
<kwwii> I'll point the topic to that with a notice that it is coming soon
<_MMA_> ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Coming very soon to a wiki near you: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy
<kwwii> there, I changed it a bit to get ready for the other changes
<kwwii> once I get done working on my current projects I'll work on getting everything in place for Hardy
<kwwii> first I need to get Gutsy out the door
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Check out the revamped http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ ::  Coming very soon to a wiki near you: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Next team meeting Nov 2nd 17:00UTC :: Check out the revamped http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ :: Coming very soon to a wiki near you: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy
<kwwii> guess that is long enough now
<nothlit> any news on artwork licenses?
<kwwii> nothlit: nope, none yet...I asked for a good opinion from management but I assume it will take a bit of time
<kwwii> for now I guess it is best that we do not suggest any license
<kwwii> in particular, I mean
<kwwii> one thing I was thinking about the CC is that although it will not be accepted by debian upstream nor OOo upstream it seems to be OK for use by Ubuntu itself
<kwwii> but again, I'll wait for an official response on that one, IANAL
<nothlit> oh yeah, the superguide to the wiki https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HelpOnEditing
<kwwii> lol, several different places for editing info, how wiki-like
<lassegul> So, anything else one could get to work on now?
<lassegul> how about cleaning up the Incoming page?
<kwwii> lassegul: that sounds like a great idea
<kwwii> not sure if there is any point keeping old stuff around
<lassegul> just put it in /OldStuff/ ?
<kwwii> yeah, or something like PreviousReleases
<Misosaki> Can we link to them anyway?
<lassegul> How about on incoming we link to one page for Hardy, then one page for previous.
<lassegul> *one
<kwwii> Misosaki: yes, the idea is not to lose them completely but to move them somewhere more appropriate
<kwwii> lassegul: we could do that
<lassegul> Or should incoming be for hardy, and just link to previous
<nothlit> i would just use #DEPRECATED at the most
<kwwii> incoming just for the current release sounds better
<Misosaki> One incoming for each release?
<Misosaki> Or some kind of page for each?
<nothlit> it takes out revision history for the old stuff, and makes it not pop up in search results
<kwwii> to be honest, the best thing is what will work best for everyone
<lassegul> dont ubuntu-studio do it one page for each?
<kwwii> no personal opinion on my part
<kwwii> _MMA_: ?
<Misosaki> The Gutsy page might need a little cleaning though, lols
<nothlit> #DEPRECATED: Mark this page as deprecated, i.e. further changes to the page will create no backup versions and displaying it will show the current contents (usually the reason why this page is deprecated) plus the last backup. This effectively freezes the last version of the page, makes it unavailable for searches (no hits on stale content), but keeps that content available for viewing.
<_MMA_> um...
<kwwii> nothlit: I guess some people might still like to search for something
<nothlit> they can manually see it in the Incoming subpages section
<_MMA_> This is how we do it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork
<Misosaki> Also might like to clarify the "free license" thing a bit, since it seems to be so important people attach one
<troy_s> just delete the older crap that isn't relevant
<troy_s> some things will be relevant, some won't... kill the 'won't'
<troy_s> lol
<lassegul> that was what i initally was thinking about.
<nothlit> _MMA_: btw i would make that straight up a hardy page with links to the old ones @ the bottom or top, based on your preference, jmho
<_MMA_> Its that way because it shows all of our artwork pages.
<Misosaki> Can they be migrated to the new gallery system, or will that always be only for current artwork?
<_MMA_> Talking to me? :)
<kwwii> Misosaki: I think we will have categories for the gallery
<Misosaki> nods
<Misosaki> Just so everything is in one place
<kwwii> lassegul, nothlit: deprecated sounds like the best idea
<Misosaki> But whatever you all decide is best
<lassegul> gobby session is up for those who want to participate lassegs.ath.cx
<Misosaki> lassegul: gobby?
<nothlit`alpha> i don't see a point of a gallery system tbh if theres a ubuntu-art.org already up and running
<lassegul> Misosaki: gedit mulitplayer mode.
<nothlit`alpha> we should just point people there for "general ubuntu artwork"
<nothlit`alpha> lassegul: i still don't know whether we should make an alternate page where people have the opportunity to post their theme name, link and a thumbnail or just do an autoindex of alternate submissions
<lassegul> nothlit`alpha: i think we should do the latter
<nothlit`alpha> the first option can still have the autoindexing on the bottom
<lassegul> nothlit`alpha: BUt that would end up taking more work right?
<nothlit`alpha> only if <they> want to post a thumbnail
<nothlit`alpha> another minisketch btw :) https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnails/
<kwwii> the whole point is to make art.ubuntu.com what we need to help people contribute
<nothlit`alpha> the vote was for a.u.c for general contributions though
<kwwii> nothlit: actually, I was discussing with my friend who runs that site to put them together
<kwwii> nothlit: right, exactly
<nothlit`alpha> general contributions or community contributions?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Just my 2 cents here but doesnt Gnome-look fill that just fine. Especially considering that there's really no traffic on art.ubuntu.com since its launch?
<_MMA_> Having our own place for things is nice sometimes but I feel it can also separate us as well.
<nothlit`alpha> _MMA_: ehem 30k visitors a week even when no submissions had been added for months
<_MMA_> nothlit`alpha: Get me the Gnome-look stats then we'll talk again.
<nothlit`alpha> gnome-look encompasses significantly more of the entire linux community
<_MMA_> And that still doesnt address what I said about segregating ourselves.
<_MMA_> And that a community we are a part of. ;)
<kwwii> _MMA_: the guy who does gnome-look.org is the same person who does ubuntu-art (and it is the same infrastructure) so this would only be a more specific part of this
<kwwii> actually, it all started with kde-look.org (he is a kde guy)
<kwwii> now he has all kinds of websites
<_MMA_> You I remember you saying.
<_MMA_> gah
<_MMA_> I remember you saying.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> perhaps we can just point art.ubuntu.com at that site and be done with it
<kwwii> adding our own categories, etc
<_MMA_> Im still unsure of the need and the larger concern of segregating ourselves.
<kwwii> well, it would be nice to be able to see what is submitted just for ubuntu without the other stuff and without having to click through searches even if the names are different
* _MMA_ wishes he was around for that CC meeting. ;)
<kwwii> maybe we should bring this back up at the next meeting
<kwwii> seem sto be a bit of confusion
<_MMA_> kwwii: Oh sure. Maybe the -look sites could have a "Distro tag" added?
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, exactly
<kwwii> that might work just as well
<nothlit`alpha> _MMA_: well, originally as a place to work and avoid picture mess, but the fedora wiki gives me hope
<_MMA_> nothlit`alpha: Though the Fedora WIKI is nice I think that the right OCD people on the Ubuntu WIKI can keep things in shape just fine. :)
<kwwii> OCD?
<_MMA_> Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
<_MMA_> @google OCD
<_MMA_> gah. Not in my channel. :)
<kwwii> lol, anal-retentive
<_MMA_> Sure. That works as well. :)
<kwwii> ATAFME
<kwwii> AllTheseAcronymsFreakMeOut
<_MMA_> lol
<Misosaki> lols
<kwwii> QCIYAM - QuiteConfusingIfYouAskMe
<kwwii> it will never end
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> from now on any answer I give will be in acronym
<Misosaki> ITYFA?
<Misosaki> (Is that your final answer?)
<kwwii> IWLTAYBITIAOCDAFDA - IWouldLikeToAnswerYouButITurnedIntoAnObsessiveCompulsiveDisorderAFewDaysAgo
<_MMA_> :)
<Misosaki> :)
<kwwii> NRTITLNTYWGFM
<kwwii> anyone?
<kwwii> NoReallyThisIsTheLastNormalTextYouWillRecieveFromMe
<kwwii> I wonder if people would learn to live with it
<_MMA_> NKOTB?
<kwwii> I could kinda become a freak show
<_MMA_> gah
<Misosaki> NWIT?
<kwwii> see how hard it is?
<lassegul> EIE - enough is enough?
<Misosaki> (Normal, what's that?)
<_MMA_> WOW. We _must_ be bored. :)
<Misosaki> lols
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> _MMA_: just finished the first season in one night
<kwwii> probably enough to drive me crazy
<kwwii> thanks be to god that english tv has short seasons
<_MMA_> "Did you turn it off and on again?"
<kwwii> "Is it plugged in?"
<kwwii> very nice
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> very true, unfortunately
<_MMA_> The writers know the job and their audience well. :)
<kwwii> no doubt
<_MMA_> Im gonna order the DVDs from Amazon UK. We cant get 'em here.
<_MMA_> Though my DVD player can do PAL Ill convert them to NTSC
<kwwii> I could probably pick 'em up for you cheaper and bring them to UDS
<kwwii> at least the shipping would be cheaper ;-9
<_MMA_> Oh hell yeah.
<kwwii> even better, I could get someone at the company to get 'em for you
<_MMA_> Uhhh. We dont need to go that far. :)
<kwwii> I know that if I transfered money to Jono in advance he would take care of it
<_MMA_> Well ok. I can do whatever. :)
<kwwii> money transfer in europe is much easier, and if not I can take care of it
<kwwii> I'll find out and tell you tomorrow
<_MMA_> np
<kwwii> man, two weeks of clam chowder - can't wait
<_MMA_> Totally.
<_MMA_> I thought the same thing. :)
<_MMA_> FOOD! :)
<kwwii> as fat as I already am, going back home puts on 5lbs
<kwwii> real food for a change
<kwwii> how nice
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> maybe I should bring some sauerkraut and sausage for the americans
<_MMA_> :)
<nothlit`alpha> _MMA_: heres how i managed the picture thing :)
<nothlit`alpha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionTemplate
<nothlit`alpha> the platypus page is ready btw lol :D
<_MMA_> nothlit`alpha: Nice. I think Ill steal that. :)
<kwwii> nothlit`alpha: excellent work
<nothlit`alpha> i wrote a thumbnailing script, i'll put it up in a bit as well
<kwwii> let me know when you do, I can probably help with that
<nothlit> its here for the moment, https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnail also has svg support, but will need inkscape
<kwwii> the most important thing is that it only makes a few columns of pics
<kwwii> I think that we cannot assume that everyone will use svg
<kwwii> we need to make the thumbnails out of the exported pngs or whatever
<nothlit> will only need inkscape if it comes across svgs lol
<nothlit> will thumbnail the image in whatever format it was originally in
<nothlit> has a gui :)
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> can't hurt then
<kwwii> I will add a montage script for imagemagick later
<lassegul> kwwii: people have posted all kinds of crap to the /Ideas page. Mind if I clean up all those ideas about how to make the default desktop better, like "Windows over the panel", possibly collecting them to their own page. though that might allow it to evolve to a whole another level of crap.
<kwwii> lassegul: I would simply put everything into another section like PreviousReleases or whatever as everything that comes next will be different
<kwwii> of course, if you feel like you can make more sense of it than the simple sentence I just stated feel free
<kwwii> maybe there is a good reason to put some ideas together and leave them in Ideas
<lassegul> kwwii: hmmm. im cleaning up /Gutsy/Ideas and /Gutsy/ConceptArt  and organizing them into Gutsy/Alternate/
<kwwii> sweet
<lassegul> kwwii: so i dont think  they fit in the attic, maybe.
<kwwii> anything directly concerned with Gutsy or older artwork can go into another place though
<kwwii> man, I wish that wikis where better at that kind of thing
<kwwii> probably a lot of work
<lassegul> kwwii: when I say gutsy i mean hardy :S
<kwwii> ;-)
<lassegul> kwwii: sorry to make this confusing
<kwwii> no worries
<lassegul> kwwii: to take it from the beginning:
<lassegul> kwwii: people have already begun putting up ideas and concept art in these wiki pages: Hardy/Ideas and Hardy/ConceptArt (nothlit and terlmanns different versions I believe)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-09
<lassegul> kwwii: ill pick up the concept ideas and put them to Hardy/Alternate where each concept has its own page.
<lassegul> kwwii: but some stuff is about how to organize the default desktop in hardy, and adding another colour option to the gtkcolourchooser etc. what do i do with them?
<kwwii> ouch, yeah...looking at those pages makes it hard to decide
<kwwii> might be best to put the ideas into another page, as they do not fit what is going to be default (nothing I saw so far)
<kwwii> nasty situation
<kwwii> probably should have put some notice somewhere that the direction for Hardy is still coming
<kwwii> I kinda did that tonight though
<lassegul> I like this one /!\
<kwwii> all the concept art stuff seems to be ready to move to alternate
<kwwii> as it does not really fit the information that I have not posted yet :p
<lassegul> ive not seen this information
<lassegul> this could spare me some work
<kwwii> lol, no because I have not posted it
<kwwii> I need to specifically define exactly what we want artistically speaking
<kwwii> but gutsy is not even out the door yet
<nothlit> lassegul: no terlmann's is HardyIdeas lol
<lassegul> nothlit: your work looks very similar :D
<nothlit> *ehem*
<kwwii> damn, this is a hard situation to deal with
<kwwii> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Ideas has some good ideas but I am not sure how many are good for Hardy yet
<lassegul> how about you make a hard decision here on what goes, and what doesnt and return a list to me?
<kwwii> as far as the ConceptArt goes I would move them to Alternate for now...I do not want people to get the wrong idea and think that they should base their artwork on this
<kwwii> ConceptArt sounds to official to me
<kwwii> better to move it to Alternate or something else
<kwwii> s/to/too
<lassegul> everything goes into Alternate for now, and then you move what should be moved ok?
<kwwii> now you see why I was hesitant to start posting stuff about hardy so soon
<kwwii> ok, sounds good
<lassegul> ok then
<kwwii> but put a notice on it that it is being moved so that we can create the offical pages
<kwwii> not that anyone thinks we are throwing away their ideas
<lassegul> sure
<kwwii> but once we have posted the official design direction that might be much easier
<_MMA_> Haha. Stolen. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
<_MMA_> /me runs from nothlit.
<nothlit> lol i don't mind
<_MMA_> ;)
<nothlit> takes away your [[BR] ]  smugness ;p
<_MMA_> lol
<nothlit> _MMA_: your art guidelines are both hilarious and awesome
<_MMA_> :)
* kwwii heads out for the night
<_MMA_> nothlit: Refresh my page. I think I 1-uped you. ;)
<nothlit> lol
<nothlit> thanks for grabbing the alignment code so i didn't have to find it :D
<_MMA_> ;)
<lassegul> good morning
<lassegul> if anyone wants to check it out, the wiki was heavily reorganized last night. Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming. (nothlit has even done magic)
<KidProQuo> Hi, I want to change the title of my submission on the Hardy Heron artwork page to something a bit more descriptive. How do I go about that?
<coz_> KidProQuo, I personally have no idea but would appreciate a link to the site :)
<KidProQuo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate
<coz_> KidProQuo, thanks let me go there and look maybe I can find the answer you need :)
<KidProQuo> Everything has been moved into their own sub page there from the ideas page.
<coz_> KidProQuo, mm   I am not seeing any info on chaning anything it should be easily done if this is like a wiki
<KidProQuo> It is a wiki but since it's the name of a whole page that I want to replace, not just a heading within the page, I'm not sure what to do
<coz_> KidProQuo, well I logged in and let me check out the options for changes hold on
<KidProQuo> cheers
<coz_> KidProQuo, sorry  I havent submitted anything so I am probably not able to see any of the edit features avaiable
<KidProQuo> No worries, I'll wait until someone a bit more familiar with the system comes online.
<KidProQuo> Failing everything else, I could just delete the page and make a new one with the proper title.
<KidProQuo> Cheers for trying anyway
<coz_> KidProQuo, oh ok i guess that would work also    which one was your submission
<lassegul> KidProQuo: you rename the page from the drop-down menuy
<KidProQuo> ah, thankyou
<lassegul> i did that with about 10 000 pages last night *yawn*
<lassegul> sorry if yours got a wierd name.
<lassegul> Please add your name to the concept description if it isnt already there. lots of these posts werent signed.
<KidProQuo> no worries. I just thought I'd give it a bit more descriptive title than it had
<lassegul> which one is yours?
<KidProQuo> 'savanna' - the page formerly known as 'DifferentApproach'
<KidProQuo> which reminds me, those screenshots are a bit out of date. I should put the new lot up
<lassegul> nothlit: are you awake?
<nothlit> lassegul: yeah, what do you need
<nothlit> lassegul: btw the platypus page has some stuff you didn't use in the reshuffle https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Platypus
<nothlit> the center tables for images, the attach list, the attach link for easy use, and the [[Include] ]  for the guidelines
<lassegul> yeah I see that now.
<lassegul> Does that mean I must redo them all? :/
<nothlit> not if you don't feel like it
<nothlit> but replace the guidelines with the include
<nothlit> so we can easily modify the guidelines
<lassegul> Ok. I will.
<nothlit> otherwise we'll have to do it per page in the future lol
<lassegul> probably smart yes.
<lassegul> I put the Hardy/Ideas and Hardy/ConceptArt in Attic, so they wouldnt be used anymore.
<lassegul> but is that the right place for them?
<nothlit> if you're sure you've moved <everything> out of them
<lassegul> not the bug report/feature request.
<nothlit> then just clear the pages of content, and if we need do some recovery we can view the revision history
<nothlit> and add #DEPRECATED
<lassegul> they are already in Attic but you want me to clear content as well? Why not just add deprecated?
<nothlit> i'd keep the pages for now (as in not delete them) just in case someone pops up and says we missed something
<nothlit> try that first then
<lassegul> how do I use #DEPRECATED ? Just add it to the top?
<nothlit> yeah
<lassegul> the "create new project page" is genious.
<nothlit> lol, just browsing through syntax =p
<nothlit> i was looking for something else actually =/
<lassegul> Yeah but as long as people uses it, everything will be according to the standards.
<nothlit> apparently doesn't exist in the exact form i was searching for
<lassegul> things like /DVDCover have gone to /Attic. Maybe I should put it back?
<nothlit> oh, also, the template page is in the artwork category
<nothlit> um, lemme take a second look at the page
<nothlit> yeah i guess put it back, feisty is supported for another generation and it might give other people ideas to do it themselves
<lassegul> what about those panel theming concepts? Its not like they are connected to Hardy in any way, but they are timeless enough
<lassegul> (but so are some of the themes there, I guess)
<lassegul> nah, theyll stay in the attic. They havent been touched by others than terlmann in a long while
<nothlit> lassegul: btw, my community theme page isn't pregutsy ;p, but it is still old
<lassegul> pre-hardy?
<nothlit> Everything pre-Gutsy has now gone to /Attic
<lassegul> ok, so we should rename it to prehardy then? That will be correct wont it?
<lassegul> s/rename/correct/
<nothlit> sorry, dc
<nothlit> Just say Everything not current has been moved to Attic
<lassegul> yeah
<nothlit> i'm going to revert GutsyIdeas back to its old location ok? i think people will still want to look at it for now
<lassegul> sounds good. starting to edit the alternate pages with dynamic guidelines.
<nothlit`alpha> lassegul: i added previous/next links and a siblings navigation at the top as well
* nothlit`alpha runs away from the now driven crazy lassegul
<lassegul> wow. thats so cool.
<lassegul> dont run!
<lassegul> :)
<lassegul> Ill get it in. Anything else you want before I start editing again :)
<nothlit`alpha> yeah, if the wiki wakes up lol
<nothlit`alpha> it freezes for minutes, especially on changing preferences
<lassegul> whats the idea?
<lassegul> what else are you planning on adding?
<nothlit`alpha> table of contents and reformatting it so it fits better there
<nothlit`alpha> done now i hope
<nothlit`alpha> bulleted comments
<nothlit`alpha> its fine go ahead, if there are small improvements along the way so what
<nothlit`alpha> the other pages are still good
<lassegul> looks good. ill add the attachement list as well and bulleted comments.
<lassegul> and imagetable etc.
<lassegul> hold on a sec. the navigation on the top shows Incoming, not Incoming/Alternate. Shouldnt it do that?
<nothlit`alpha> arg, the wiki is annoying, this delay in edit syncing shows funny things sometimes
<nothlit`alpha> the navigation will show alternate when the page is in alternate
<nothlit`alpha> the template isn't
<nothlit`alpha> it shows siblings, the templates siblings are the things in incoming
<lassegul> ah right. im forgetting its a redirect.
<lassegul> I dont like the image table though. :S
<nothlit`alpha> it keeps the images and fullsize/source links organised though, another example of it being used it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
<nothlit`alpha> lol, look at what the top of this page says https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Attic/HardyIdeas
<lassegul> yes i see. But its a pain in the ass to add them to every picture in here, and are you really sure people will use it? I think the more wiki syntax editing people must use, the more messy its going to get.
<lassegul> i came i saw i giggled.
<nothlit`alpha> i never noticed that before
<nothlit`alpha> if they won't  use it they'll delete it
<nothlit`alpha> thats fine if they keep it organised anyways
<nothlit`alpha> but if they want to use its there for them
<nothlit`alpha> if you want i can put ##comment in about the table use being optional
<nothlit`alpha> but, otherwise people just do it row by row like this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Attic/ConceptArt
<lassegul> ok im with you. wanna split this task with me? You start in this end  /GTK2Idea1 and ill do the one before that one
<nothlit`alpha> oooh ,the next meeting is set
<lassegul> s/the one/those/
<nothlit> kwwii: so the meeting is during the last day of UDS?
<nothlit> lame wiki system... the original ideas page is gone... i moved it to Artwork/Incoming/Attic/Hardy/Ideas, but for some reason it existed in both places, so i deleted the Attic/Ideas and kept Attic/Hardy/Ideas, but they're both gone now
<nothlit> probably in some weird wiki sync
<nothlit> lassegul: ok starting at GTK2Idea1 and moving down the list
<lassegul> nothlit: great!
<kwwii> nothlit: not necessarily, I just put that up so that some meeting was somehow planned
<kwwii> we might do it one day in advance
<kwwii> or perhaps a couple of days later
<kwwii> we could also change the time so that other people have a chance to join
<lassegul> kwwii: you probably shouldnt let a date that is possibly wrong be public for too long :P
<nothlit> i thought you had VoIP planned? or just stick to irc
<nothlit> lassegul: i also added example comments, * Comment 1 * Comment 2
<kwwii> lassegul: yeah, probably not
<kwwii> I'll send an email to the list
<lassegul> nothlit: why must you always do better than me! :P
<lassegul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/FreshTheme lol this didnt go so well.
<nothlit> lassegul: i'm just more accustomed to the wiki and i can't stop the incessant tweaking
<nothlit> lol, well its fixable =p
<lassegul> fixed.
<nothlit> lassegul: psst, the Fullsize link goes in a second row of the table under the images =p
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Next team meeting Nov 2nd 17:00UTC :: Check out the revamped http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ :: Coming very soon to a wiki near you: http://w
<nothlit> btw bullet points need a space before the * or it becomes an ordinary asterisk
<kwwii> erm
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Next team meeting sometime around Nov 2nd 17:00UTC :: Check out the revamped http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ :: Coming very soon to a wiki near you: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy
<nothlit> lassegul: you have guidelines twice and the = = don't match
<lassegul> nothlit: I should do this when im not working at the same time. Ill clean up my mistakes, then leave it either for you to fix the rest, or when i get home tonight. This just leaves a mess.
<nothlit> kk
<nothlit> sorry for the nagging lol
<lassegul> nothlit: no no, of course, this must be done right.
<nothlit> kwwii: what do we do about damians wallpaper rules? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/WallpaperRules declare them canon? or leave them until you find time to edit it
<kwwii> nothlit: I like the basics of what is there but I do not agree with them all
<kwwii> so no, they are not canonical, so to speak :p
<lassegul> ok. ill leave for a meeting. See you all later tonight.
<_MMA_> Bye
* kwwii is off to parent-teacher night at school
<_MMA_> kwwii: Hit me up when you're back.
<lassegul> re
<lassegul> nothlit: you mind checking the syntax on this for me?
<lassegul> nothlit: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Animals
<thorwil> lassegul: interesting concept. i think the 3 flares on the bottom are too much - they get in a fight with the bird over the viewers attention ;)
<lassegul> thorwil: its not mine, im just concerned of the wiki syntax
<lassegul> thorwil: but i agree :)
<lassegul> thorwil: im having trouble with the || || syntax to make tables.
<thorwil> lassegul: now that you say ... who's is it, or rather shouldn't that page state that clearly?
<nothlit> lassegul: contributions is top level, and you left a trailing space
<nothlit> you're missing the attach file link in contributions as well
<lassegul> thorwil: it should, but when they dont attach their name to it in the first place it takes some time to get through the revision logs to see who actually uploaded it.
<nothlit> and you have leading spaces making funny tabs
<lassegul> nothlit: im correcting that as we speak
<lassegul> nothlit: funny tabs?
<lassegul> nothlit: nm, i understand, but that isnt the reason. look i fixed it now, but the same table appears.
<nothlit> lassegul: nm, i fixed it--you forgot about the trailing spaces and watching the concept and reference levels too
<lassegul> nothlit: didnt I fix that?
<nothlit> lassegul: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Animals?action=diff
<lassegul> i see.
<nothlit> anyways, i paste in a bare template to a text editor, and then paste in the text from the working page
<nothlit> that way i can't make mistakes as easily
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-10
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<KidProQuo> When are the official guidelines for Hardy due out?
<lassegul> fedora 8 artwork looks fantastic. with the 24 hour-by-hour animated infinity wallpaper and their really nice graphical boot.
<lassegul> not too original maybe, but very clean.
<Madpilot> animated wallpaper? cool
<Madpilot> tho lately all I'd see is the nighttime versions :)
<lassegul> Madpilot: :)
<KidProQuo> Is there a way to hook up your wallpaper to a RSS feed of images?
<artnay> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/MairinDuffy - mmh, animated background? didn't see that coming
<lassegul> its pretty clean, as I understand it. Just changes the colour very slowly?
<_MMA_> lassegul: It just looks like its a program that uses a XML file to fade between static images. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-August/msg00170.html
<_MMA_> I gotta see how this works. Package it up for Gutsy.
<lassegul> Do that!
<lassegul> but does it fade continously, slowly over 60 minuits, or is it a fast fade every 60 minuits? i didnt get that.
<_MMA_> Look at the link I posted. If you look at the example xlm you'll see.
<_MMA_> You can set the duration.
<lassegul> <3
<_MMA_> I cant find where this functionality was added though.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Do you know?
<kwwii> _MMA_: never saw that before
<kwwii> wow, they hacked gnome to make that work
<kwwii> killer
<andreasn> hm, I think that is going upstream
<andreasn> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2007-September/msg00530.html
<_MMA_> Yeah. Looks like something they did. I was looking for something to package but I guess not. :)
<_MMA_> kwwii: Will Hardy move to using the "Liberation" fonts?
<kwwii> _MMA_: not sure, to be honest I am not sure if they are really better
<_MMA_> Well if they're no worse, I'd like the move simply because they are free.
<_MMA_> Fedora and Mandrake have made this move.
<kwwii> guess we would have to look into the license issues with those as well
<kwwii> seem to be GPL but I am not sure what the font exception is
<_MMA_> Worthy of a ML post?
<_MMA_> I could write something up real quick.
<kwwii> probably a good idea
<kwwii> I was just thinking that I need to start a list of things
<_MMA_> k. Ill do it not to simply pose the question and get responses.
<kwwii> man, I wish I could just get done with these other projects so that I can start on Hardy
<_MMA_> s/not/now
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> see what others think
<_MMA_> Can you Skype?
<kwwii> let me get a new battery in my mic first
<_MMA_> np
* terlmann laughs at the beady-eyed platypuses... very funny :-)
<nothlit> its a joke template
<terlmann> its good man
<terlmann> very good
<terlmann> man , I wake up and find linspire and mandriva have both released new versions...
<lassegul> nothlit: ping?
<troy_s> lassegul: Fedora 8s artwork is paltry and bland compared to where Diana was taking it.
<troy_s> In fact, it has reverted to that ever so crappy 'curves from nothing' land.
<troy_s> Their reputation as being the best looking distro just went for poop again.
<troy_s> (I am still wondering where Diana went)
<nothlit> lassegul: pong
<nothlit> darn, i tried to tab complete po and it didn't work
<lassegul> nothlit: Artwork/Incoming  Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas-Feedback wont disappear from the sub pages index.
<nothlit> arg, this guy created a lot of empty page redirects
<terlmann> I loved the curves from nothing.I just coundn't stand the rpms though.. :-)
* terlmann shudders
<nothlit> lassegul: ok its gone :)
<terlmann> mind if I post a funny off-topic artistic link ?
<nothlit> go ahead, as long as it fits the CoC
<lassegul> troy_s: hmm. its not the really unique look they had before, but its certainly pretty, and its consequent
<terlmann> http://wtfzup.com/2007/10/09/13-demotivational-posters-because-we-all-need-more-encouragement-to-slack-off/
<terlmann> very funny
<lassegul> nothlit: how did you manage that?
<nothlit> went to to the original page that was the redirect, checked for contents, and deleted
<lassegul> nothlit: where wasa the original page?
<nothlit> it was of the same name, just with dashes in between instead of spaces
* kwwii takes a break for a while...bbl
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<kwwii> oh man, I fell asleep on the couch
<_MMA_> The best kind of sleep. :)
<kwwii_> erm, that was freaky
<_MMA_> What happened?
<kwwii_> it seems that something on my server died
<kwwii_> I can ping it fine, but no ssh connection anymore
<_MMA_> Odd.
<kwwii_> wow, firefox-bin uses 8.6% Memory
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii_> btw. I like the murrine theme but I am not too big on the panel bg
<_MMA_> Yeah. I just threw that in there.
<_MMA_> I like theming it in general.
<kwwii_> the controls look awesome
<_MMA_> It could probably use some tweaks here and there but I tried to stay close to the Ubuntu colors.
<kwwii_> looks pretty good overall
<kwwii_> the orange in the active menu overlay is a bit too dark
<_MMA_> 1 thing to change maybe is the burnt orange color on some things.
<_MMA_> Yeah.
<kwwii_> I had the same problem when I tried to make a gtkrc
<_MMA_> I actually had it set to the brighter Orange but I made it more in line with the current gtkrc.
<_MMA_> I can revise if you like.
<_MMA_> Or you could. Your call.
<kwwii_> I think that the only thing that is too dark is the active menu overlay thingy...could you lighten that a bit?
<_MMA_> Sure.
<_MMA_> kwwii_: In the metacity.xml file can things defined as: bg[SELECTED]  (just an example) be replaced with a hex color? ie: #ffffff
<kwwii_> _MMA_: the new format wants you to define that color somewhere so that it can get the other colors around it using some math somehow
<kwwii_> that is why I never changed the human xml :p
<_MMA_> Hmm...
<_MMA_> Well the only way I can change the active menu overlay also effects the metacity bar.
<kwwii_> yeah, that was the problem
<kwwii_> we stuck to the old style which defines everything directly
<_MMA_> Now this is with Murrine.
<_MMA_> If I had another color in the top section on the gtkrc I could change the metacity.
<_MMA_> The ones defined like: bg[SELECTED] 
<kwwii_> to be honest, that whole system is still kinda like magic to me
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii_> the mailing list got like 30 spam mails today - what a fun job
<kwwii_> funny enough it gets like 3-5 spam emails in hebrew every day
<_MMA_> Yep. I really dont like running a ML. I have 2.
<kwwii_> there are like 5 moderators for the site but none of them do anything
<_MMA_> The art site?
<kwwii_> wow, I just found a major problem with the liberation fonts
<kwwii_> yeah, ubuntu-art
<_MMA_> Oh?
<kwwii_> I opened a firefox browser and typed "news.bbc.co.uk"
<kwwii_> there is way too much space between the w and the s in news
<kwwii_> I am using 8pt fonts
<kwwii_> on my 1024x768 laptop
<nothlit> i got rid of the liberation fonts, they defaulted past the dejavu and made all the font rendering ugly
<_MMA_> kwwii_: Wow. I see it.
<kwwii_> big time nasty
<_MMA_> Hmm.. yeah.
<_MMA_> kwwii_: re: ubuntu-art. Why are they there then? Id kick them to the curb.
<kwwii_> yeah, I just took over about a month ago...I'll probably remove them soon
<_MMA_> People love to sign up for things for the status of it.
<kwwii_> and find a few new people
<_MMA_> kwwii_: Honestly Im for the dismantling of it in order to stay closer with Gnome/KDE-Look.
<_MMA_> kwwii_: Did you mention the "Distro" flag to you friend?
<kwwii_> _MMA_: you mean the art.ubuntu.com site...I was talking about the mailing list for ubuntu-art
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<kwwii_> _MMA_: nope, I haven't sent him an email yet, probably do that tomorrow
<kwwii_> I wish we could have another meeting to discuss art.ubuntu.com
<kwwii_> I personally do not see the need for it, but it seemed like several others did
<_MMA_> ML to the rescue!
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii_> :-9
<_MMA_> To some degree, I think if you "in charge" you should just "take charge". :) Post the question. Have some chat about it and if there really isnt a compelling reason to keep it, get rid of it.
<_MMA_> *think if your...
<kwwii_> yeah, probably so
<kwwii_> I think I will spend most of my day tomorrow writing emails :p
<kwwii_> lol, this is the treatment I need: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7037443.stm
<_MMA_> kwwii_: So there are 5 mods for the -art ML?
<kwwii_> _MMA_: something like that
<kwwii_> and none of them do anything as far as I can tell
<_MMA_> hahaha. Funny. (even though I dont drink)
<kwwii_> when I took over being admin last month there where like 2,500 emails in the queue
<_MMA_> kwwii_: Crap.
<_MMA_> Wow.
<kwwii_> I spent two whole days going through them
<_MMA_> I need to get someone else on my team. :)
<_MMA_> I thought it was tied to 1 person.
<kwwii_> so now I try to keep it empty all the time but it gets really old doing it every few hours
<_MMA_> I can imagine.
<kwwii_> I definitely have better things to do
<_MMA_> Like work on the wiki. ;)
<kwwii_> or spamming the list with emails about the gallery
<_MMA_> :)
* _MMA_ goes to bother Kenneth with -art emails.
<nothlit> kwwii_: i'd say we just take a quick vote at pointing the domain name to ubuntu-art.org next meeting
<nothlit> subdomains*
<_MMA_> I just found out jorge castro is a metal guy. :) I talked to jono over Skype about Ubuntu Open Week and Boston. \m/
<kwwii_> nothlit: the thing is, I am not sure if we can just do that on our own without getting permission from canonical as they own the domain
<nothlit> unless both you and matthew are interested in turning it into a project management system
<kwwii_> _MMA_: we should all bring instruments and make a quick CD in boston
<nothlit> kwwii_: well. if we can't we can still make it unofficial wiki policy
<_MMA_> nothlit: I just dont see the need for it when a person with vigilance could do it all on the WIKI.
<_MMA_> kwwii_: We TOTALLY wanted to do that in MTV.
<nothlit> _MMA_: i know, thats why i stopped pushing for the gallery lol
<_MMA_> I didnt know enough people at the time. :)
<_MMA_> nothlit: You said "a project management system" instead right?
<nothlit> _MMA_: but the function i'm talking about now is all the random ubuntu-art clogging up gnome-look/kde-look, and they have a seperate site for it anyways, so both the ubuntu community and the rest of the nix community can be happy
<nothlit> _MMA_: yeah, but that would be a one stop shop not just replacing the wiki
<nothlit> but everything else as well
<kwwii_> _MMA_: jono is scared I will outshine him :p
* kwwii_ growls better than Jono
<_MMA_> nothlit: re: clogging -look. I dont see it as an issue. Especially if a "distro" tag could be done.
<nothlit> _MMA_: i know, but now they opened up a site for it
<_MMA_> kwwii_: Pfftt... then I go tyou hands down then. ;)
<kwwii_> personally I think that the existing ubuntu-art.org is enough for our purposes, if we put more info about it on the wiki
<kwwii_> :-)
<_MMA_> *got you
* _MMA_ grew up with alot of death metal bands. \m/
<kwwii_> I was into death metal before they called it death metal
<kwwii_> lol
* kwwii_ is ooooooold
<kwwii_> wow, another shooting at a school in america
* _MMA_ smiles as he remembers Germans cant get the Cannibal Corpse albums with the original graphic covers. ;)
<kwwii_> then again, anyone who does to a school called "SuccessTech Academy" is probably a looser to begin with
<_MMA_> ouch... :)
<kwwii_> _MMA_: freaky about that in germany, nudity is everywhere, they say shit, fuck, etc. on childrens TV in the mornings
<kwwii_> and they love horror films
<kwwii_> stupid laws, they exist everywhere
<_MMA_> Yeah. Always struck me as odd.
<kwwii_> well, I am off for bed now...night all
<_MMA_> Night sir.
<kwwii_> night man, see you tomorrow
<kwwii_> btw. I sent a mail to the list about the gallery issue
<lassegul> re
<lassegul> im just wondering about the gallery again, because I thought it was such a good idea. then I worked on the wiki with you nothlit, then we changed our minds about the gallery and said that there was no need for it because of the wiki.
<lassegul> then i tested the wiki on some buddys, not ubuntu users or artists, just techies. and they couldnt find out how to get to incoming at all.
<lassegul> (kwwii added something about it in the getinvolved page, now its better but it certainly aint there yet)
<nothlit> lassegul: they could see the bolded hardy link from wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork?
<nothlit> couldn't*
<lassegul> so when i think back (to last week) i remembered we summarized two main problems: 1. The wiki gets messy. 2. The wiki is hard to use for many potencial contributors. We(you to some extent) have fixed the first issue, with organizing and keeping it clean. But for now, problem nr 2 still stands imo.
<lassegul> nothlit: who knows why they should go to incoming? Is the name really that obvious?
<lassegul> But the solution to number 2 isnt necessarily a gallery.
<lassegul> In fact, when I think again it probably isnt.
<lassegul> lol i just made a u-turn argument
<nothlit> lassegul: you put them on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork and asked them to get to the the most current stuff thats being worked on?
<lassegul> nothlit: to Artwork yes, and told them: "How do you contribute". All three of them, seperatly answered mailing list. When I asked them if there was a place to put things on the wiki, they didnt know for sure, but would assume there maybe was. I didnt think that was good enough.
<lassegul> nothlit: after i wrote these things down, I see now that I dont want a gallery but I think there still might be some kinks to work out in the wiki organizing. What do you think?
<lassegul> "your friends are stupid" ?
<nothlit> lassegul: i'm a little suprised
<nothlit> lassegul: things could be made clearer yes, but i wouldn't think people would have trouble finding the page
<nothlit> yes wiki code is a difficulty, but i would think the other thing is just basic web browsing skills, or at most a google
<nothlit> the mailing list archives have a google search, and there have been plenty of people that have found the gutsy ideas page
<kwwii> lol, which kwwii is the *real* kwwii
<lassegul> hehe.
<nothlit> terlmann?
* nothlit is slightly confused
<terlmann> what ?
<nothlit> nm
<lassegul> nothlit: lets face, it, as troy says people wont probably read through the whole page.
<nothlit> lassegul: lol, ok, we'll put a bolded notice at the top
<lassegul> nothlit: so I guess they would probably do one of three things when they are on /Artwork. 1. Click the links to the subpages. 2. Go to get involved. 3. Go to Hardy Heron
<nothlit> lassegul: thats why subpages to me have always been an auxilary thing at the bottom
<nothlit> for manual browsing of the less important things not directly mentioned
<_MMA_> nothlit: Thats why on my page the sub-pages, while not totally at the bottom, are grouped.
* terlmann mimes a mime
<nothlit> _MMA_: as in the theme elements and misc links?
<_MMA_> Correct.
* terlmann sniffs up the wiki...
<terlmann> mmm
<terlmann> needs more salt(a custom theme perhaps :-)
<lassegul> How about skipping the Community Artwork section, let Projects link to incoming, and have incoming say "if you want Hardy Heron work, go here" "If not, go here". We have to get it shorter if people are going to read the whole page
<_MMA_> lassegul: I think thats a good idea. Link them right to the page. No need to have then go through another page or 2.
<nothlit> lassegul: i thought you wanted it simpler, i would think a big notice at the top would serve best
<nothlit> and just to hardy
<lassegul> nothlit: oh you were serious.
<lassegul> nothlit: I thought you were making fun of me
<lassegul> Ok, so lets do that.  _MMA_ you also agree?
<nothlit> if i do that i'll use a ':P'
<_MMA_> Sure.
<nothlit> i'm not a mean person lol
<lassegul> :-)
<_MMA_> lassegul: Its the way I do it. ;) I worry about injecting my ideas too much though as I want you guys to be free to create. :)
<nothlit> _MMA_: don't worry, if i don't agree i won't use it
<nothlit> air as many useful suggestions as possible :)
<_MMA_> ;)
<terlmann> useful quick links in their own section.
<terlmann> correction
<terlmann> useful : ->
<terlmann> set apart a small section that is all candied up with the links to common pages
<_MMA_> nothlit: I am thinking about reducing my thumbnail size to be able to fit my examples on 2 lines.
<_MMA_> Something rubs me wrong about it now.
<nothlit> _MMA_: i would rather get rid of a few
<_MMA_> Yeah. I think I get the point across.
<nothlit> no point in making them itty bitty, just reduce it to the basic message
<terlmann> nothing like bad info to spoil a few pieces of good intel :-( this June person was submitting , of all things , fluorescent green. Silly , silly silly.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-11
<_MMA_> nothlit: Ja. That's better.
<_MMA_> Ill bbl.
<lassegul> im going to add a sub pages to the /Hardy page
<nothlit> lassegul: :o
<nothlit> what
<lassegul> theres no link to Alternate from Hardy
<lassegul> im sorry there is.
<lassegul> ok, theres no need then.
<nothlit> lassegul: theres more artists apps to add to the tools page, and we have to finish the etiqueutte page, and we have to clean up get involved
<nothlit> as well as all the unfinished stuff commented in the main page
<lassegul> nothlit: thats right. You take the Get Involved and i do the Tools page?
<lassegul> nothlit: which one do you want to do?
<nothlit> i don't much care
<nothlit> i'll do what needs to be done
<nothlit> and anything else i'm interested in i'll work on anyways
<lassegul> ok lets bring em up on gobby then.
<nothlit> lassegul: delete the duplicates first =p
<lassegul> nothlit: true :)
<lassegul> we are set
<lassegul_> hmmm. dc. nothlit i gotta sleep. talk to you in the morning
<nothlit> lassegul: kk, lemme reconnect and save everything first
<nothlit> lassegul: ok
<nothlit> lassegul: cya later
<troy_s> lassegul_: Sorry went to work...
<troy_s> lassegul_: And I call you on the Fedora 8 work - it is complete drivel.  Looks about as 'wow' as Novell's abortion.
<lassegul_> troy_s: :)
<troy_s> lassegul_: :)
<lassegul_> troy_s: isnt that the good kind of 'wow'?
<troy_s> lassegul_: It is repetitive, done, and well... dried up like a prune.
<troy_s> lassegul_: So no... not good.  lol.
<lassegul_> troy_s: I think the colours are well used, with the desaturated blue and purple. Its calm and has and the textures on the drop/splash/swoosh are nice.
<troy_s> lassegul_: Feck.  I can't even begin to comment on it.  Blue is done like dinner.  The curves are repetitive of 1995 mentality.  The consistency is rather akin to painting your entire house taupe, then your chairs and the rest of furniture, then your dog.
<troy_s> lassegul_: It is just tripe.  Utter uber tripe.  No balls.
<lassegul_> lol
<troy_s> lassegul: It is just a sad sad sad reminder as to how far Diana pushed F.
<troy_s> lassegul: And I can only imagine that she was probably restrained.  Oh more... No motif.
<lassegul> troy_s: I understand what you are saying.
<troy_s> lassegul: It is really symptomatic of all the other crap distros are peddling.
<troy_s> lassegul: Completely mediocre, completely restrained, completely vague in directionality, and completely lacking in a clearly defined and focused audience / goal.
<troy_s> lassegul: The fear of mistake perhaps?  Hard to cite the reasoning.
<troy_s> lassegul: The funny thing is that all of this 'we should do it this way' that the distros are showing clearly is helping them get to a colossally underwhelming 2% market share.
<lassegul> troy_s: I agree that being conservative when we are in this situation is silly.
<lassegul> but artwork alone is hardly the only reason for only %.
<lassegul> *2%
<troy_s> lassegul: It plays a significant role.  The design of anything used by humans always plays a significant role.
<troy_s> lassegul: If you need further proof, look to the many vast areas that have seen significant change in adoption based purely on design -- records for example -- started without album art and the like.  The adoption of that simple trend helped to establish the entire music industry.
<troy_s> lassegul: Arguably the art and design of music videos launched another chapter.
<troy_s> lassegul: Automobiles, furniture, etc.
<troy_s> lassegul: Arguably _everything_ goes through the phase where people 'don't give a care' to the aesthetic presence / design elements.
<troy_s> lassegul: And, eventually, after much success through execution, the 'mainstream' adopts the application.
<troy_s> lassegul: We must remember that the computing industry is still in a relative 'dark age' -- people only 'see' the Model T Ford -- there are many varieties to come.
<troy_s> okie... night all.  take care.
<lassegul> good nigt
<lassegul> nothlit: check out GetInvolved.
<lassegul> nothlit: could you add the announcement on the top about Hardy?
<LDS_Trooper> Greetings!
<LDS_Trooper> Any luck in getting an advanced look at the new wallpaper?
<lassegul> LDS_Trooper: the one in gutsy?
<kwwii> lassegul, nothlit: ping?
<nothlit> pong
* _MMA_ runs nekkid through the channel.
<nothlit> kwwii: i hope you don't mind i put this as a third bullet point? Simple wallpapers and themes ubuntu-specific can be submitted to  Ubuntu-Art.org, a sister site of the -look.org and -file.org websites.
<kwwii> nothlit: I think we should wait another day or so until we know the outcome of the discussion on the mailing list
<nothlit> sure, its commented
<_MMA_> I think splitting submissions over 2 spots like that is unwise. Twice the work to me.
<nothlit> _MMA_: splitting? its for general simple things
<kwwii> _MMA_: right, I think that we should explain the different purposes of the wiki and such a site
<nothlit> _MMA_: not for the hardy cycle, just a general collection of ubuntu wallpapers etc
<nothlit> unless you think the wiki can handle hundreds or thousands of like submissions
<kwwii> the site is for general artistic rambling, the wiki is for definite explicit work on a whole theme
<_MMA_> Ahh.... I see now. I read it as Ubuntu-Art.org would also be a plsce to post your submissions.
<_MMA_> *place
<kwwii> nothlit: once lassegul is around we need to discuss the wiki stuff...I talked to Jono today about our team using the wiki structure they created for every team...most of the information we have already, we just need to tweak things to fit
<kwwii> check out for more info on what I mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/SampleTeam
<kwwii> boah, i have spent a day on just conf calls and meetings :-(
<kwwii> _MMA_: can you create a package for you murrine theme without the panel background?
<_MMA_> Just pull the "panel" folder from the GTK folder and comment out the 2 lines at the top of the gtkrc file.
<_MMA_> I can do it in a bit if you dont feel like it.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I can do that, thanks :-)
<lassegul> kwwii: im back
<lassegul> hello everybody
<kwwii> lassegul: howdy
<kwwii> lassegul: might want to read the log a bit
<lassegul> ive read it
<kwwii> so what do you guys think?
<lassegul> that sample is really nice
<kwwii> we have a lot of that info already
<lassegul> and theres not much work we need to do to make it fit either
<nothlit> theres not much difference to what we have now, except theres basically a global navigation bar
<nothlit> it might be interesting to add, but is it needed @ the top of every submission?
<nothlit> my preference is of course the traditional child-parent page relationship but i can see how that may be useful at the "base" pages
<kwwii> no, not at the top of the individual projects...that is why I thought we should discuss how and where to use this
<lassegul> I think we could just link to /Artwork from the submissions, and keep them like they are
<lassegul> something like "home"
<nothlit> are you talking about moving the function of the main page into the getinvolved page like they have now?
<nothlit> and leaving the page for news and events?
<nothlit> i think thats more a loco team style thing
<lassegul> nothlit: who are you talking to?
<nothlit> lassegul: feel free to respond =p
<nothlit> but the navigation system in the main. documentation, incoming, and hardy/gutsy pages might be good\
<nothlit> just to allow jumping around even if the page gets a little longer
<kwwii> it seems to me that we could use that top bar but that we will still need a bit more than just that
<kwwii> teh faq sounds like a wonderfull idea, really
<lassegul> nothlit: arent main page and getinvolved organized just like we do?
<kwwii> someone asks "who is in charge of this mess" and I say "check this url"
<lassegul> the roadmap is also good.
<nothlit> lassegul: well, not entirely
<kwwii> yes, the home page and the getinvolved seem to fine in the state we have them, basically
<nothlit> lassegul: yeah, we can just point that at the general hardy roadmap though, unless we start developing a more detailed one
<nothlit> lassegul: our main page is more like a portal, for projects etc, their getinvolved is similar--but the template main page is more of an event based thing
<nothlit> lassegul: for teams that hand out cds this week, have a meeting that week, put up posters the next etc
<kwwii> I'll create a more precise roadmap...we can explain that major changes are only for every new LTS cycle and then go into specifics for this cycle
<nothlit> does the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Processes page do anything the artwork builder page itself doesn't do?
<lassegul> lol
<nothlit> so basically, we want a faq and roadmap?
<nothlit> do we also want a meeting 'ticker' at the top?
<kwwii> nothlit: yeah, that seems like the basis of what we need
<kwwii> I just thought that there might be issues with certain pages where we still need a table of contents as well as the top bar thingy
<lassegul> But where will we put the subpages section then? Under the navigation bar?
<lassegul> or should we put it back down to the bottom?
<nothlit> kwwii: i'm wondering about the Archives Section and the Processes page, can we move everything in the archives section to the incoming attic? and is the processes page deletable?
<nothlit> lassegul: well, if we want to make it fit closer to the template we'd have to leave it at the top
<kwwii> nothlit: well, I don't care where the archives end up but I would like them to be viewable somewhere
<kwwii> and the proceses page is perhaps poorly named but the info there is somewhat important I guess
<nothlit> lassegul: otherwise, my inclination would be to move it to the bottom once we were absolutely sure everything was covered in the text itself
<lassegul> nothlit: re:archives  at least they should be collected in one place.
<lassegul> nothlit: i disagree with you there, becuase people want to point and click, not to read through the whole page.
<kwwii> I think that experience has shown that people do not see the links at the bottom
<nothlit> kwwii: i don't see anything in the processes page that isn't duplicated in the builder instructions itself, other than the spec for the builder and that hopefully it will create browsable html pages
<lassegul> But it might take up too much screen space when the page has lots and lots of subpages, like Hardy/Alternate, if we have both navigation bar and sub pages on the top, it will probably be 500 pixels tall.
<nothlit> lassegul: thats why i prefer the children and "Show Parent" method of navigation generally
<lassegul> maybe we should skip the navigation bar on certain pages. Just have a "home" link.
<nothlit> and then keeping the relevant information on the pages itself
<nothlit> like the hardy page has the technical resources link, and the submission guidelines and meeting link
<Samuli^> is there a .deb for murrine engine configurator, by the way?
<lassegul> nothlit: now you are talking about skipping the sub pages table?
<nothlit> lassegul: i'm talking about not relying on a global navigation as a crutch and making sure we put links where they're needed instead
<nothlit> lassegul: the hardy page itself doesn't have a subpages anyways because there is only alternate and (will be) official to navigate to
<lassegul> nothlit: i think relevant links collected in one place is better
<nothlit> sorry, d/c
<nothlit> what was the last thing i said?
<nothlit> this is what i got last < lassegul> nothlit: now you are talking about skipping the sub pages table?
<lassegul> nothlit: i think relevant links collected in one place is better
<nothlit> lassegul: in the navigation bar?
<lassegul> nothlit: as a principle
<lassegul> nothlit: im not really sure how we implement it in pages that can get messy because of it
<nothlit> lassegul: sure, but do you want the one place to be in the main page or at the top of every single one
<lassegul> nothlit: every page that isnt necessarily the users destination.
<nothlit> lassegul: that would be every page or none
<lassegul> hold on some wierd sounds are coming from the other room :S
<nothlit`alpha> lol ok
<lassegul> nothlit: (a pidgeon got in to my kitchen) yeah you are ok.
<lassegul> *you are right
<lassegul> kwwii: what do you think?
<kwwii> although I like the idea of having all links in one place I am not sure if it would work
<kwwii> I wish Jono were here to express his opinion
<lassegul> he is away?
<kwwii> not sure, checking
<nothlit> well, we can try the menubar at the top approach, and if it doesn't work, just make a link back to the main page
<lassegul> agreed
<kwwii> he is coming
<jono> heya
<kwwii> the man, the myth, the legend
<lassegul> hi
<jono> hehe
<jono> WHAT DO YOU WANT?!!!
* jono chuckles
<kwwii> lassegul, nothlit: can you explain that again for mister cool?
<jono> :)
<lassegul> nice template btw.
<lassegul> nothlit: will you do the honors?
<nothlit> we're wondering whether to adopt your navigation bar include for the artwork wiki section
<jono> right
<nothlit> we're worried about the clutter, and whether its relevant for every page, such as the individual theme ones
<jono> I would recommend
<jono>  the purpose for every page is so people can easily navigate around
<lassegul> we agreed on having subpages on the top earlier for the same purpose
<jono> right
<jono> there is no reason why you can't additional items to the menu bar I suggest
<jono> but I think you need to have each the things in my menu bar
<jono> such as a knowledge base
<jono> and a faq
<kwwii> I guess the thing is that we have extra pages in addition to what is already included in that bar
<jono> and a link back to the main page
<jono> sure, so add some additional pages
<jono> I would recommend you add a Projects item to the menu bar
<jono> and link a lot of things under that
<lassegul> so /Incoming goes under projects?
<kwwii> right, that would be our current incoming page and subpages from that
* _MMA_ eagerly awaits the growl-off. \m/
<kwwii> lassegul: exactly
<jono> so as an example:
<nothlit> jono: do you think its relevant for this set of pages? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Animals
<jono> Processes can go under Knowledge Base
<jono> and Specs can go under projects
<jono> nothlit: I would link that from Projects
<jono> I woudl say pages for ongoing projects would be linked under a Projects option
<nothlit> jono: as in, placing the menu bar in that collection of concept pages in the first place
<nothlit> jono: its already has the siblings and slideshow navigation to begin with
<jono> nothlit: sure, I would suggest the menu bar is on all art pages
<nothlit> adding another navigational item, may be a bit much?
<lassegul> with the forward back etc. navigation we have there from before it will take up much space.
<jono> sorry, I am getting confused
<nothlit> perhaps just leave the menu bar to the parent page?
<jono> I would recommend having my menu bar as it outlines all core sections
<jono> but then you have sub-sections, such as the animals page
<jono> but all pages should have the main menu bar, so the navigation feels consistant
<jono> and it also makes the pages easier to navigate for new users
<kwwii> at some point we could include a secondary navigation under the top bar if necessary I guess
<jono> kwwii: exactly
<jono> I agree you might want a nav bar for sub-sections
<jono> but you want one main menu bar with Home Roadmap Projects Knowledge Base FAQ Contact and the meeting time on it
<kwwii> right, that clears things up then, I think
<jono> it also helps keep the art team pages consistant with other teams in the ubuntu community
<kwwii> lassegul, nothlit: agreed?
<jono> right, I best run
<jono> later folks, have fun :)
<kwwii> thanks man
<jono> np :)
<lassegul> yep. so long
<nothlit> kwwii: i dunno, imo not much point in talking about it, it sounds like something worthwhile to try, doesn't take much work so that would be the best approach
<lassegul> I just tested it on Animals, and it looked good.
<nothlit> so header should for now have, main page, hardy, get involved, documentation, and meetings?
<lassegul> nothlit: we do that first then redo it into Projects etc.?
<kwwii> no, the header should at least have everything in the example
<nothlit> kwwii: we don't have faq and roadmap atm created
<kwwii> the other pages are either in one of those links or it should be in a subnavigation bar
<kwwii> nothlit: yes, but I'll create them soon
<nothlit> we can place it in when its created and the include will handle it automatically then
<kwwii> ok, fair enough
<kwwii> I think that instead of just having hardy we should have a Projects page (which is basically Incoming)
<kwwii> and Hardy will be one of those projects
<nothlit> we don't want a quick link to hardy itself?
<nothlit> i find that more important than the main page actually
<lassegul> so do I.
<kwwii> ok, fair enough
<troy_s> seems that you must distill the levels of the tiers
<kwwii> troy_s: not sure I understand you
<nothlit> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<nothlit> !hardy
<ubotu> Hardy Heron is the code name for Ubuntu 8.04-LTS, due April 2008. For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron
<nothlit> bah
<troy_s> kwwii: It appears that where one might 'expect' to find the Hardy elements isn't laid out as one would expect.  (being the more naive form of 'expect'
<troy_s> kwwii: And my comment was directed at the 'we should be able to jump to hardy easily)
<kwwii> troy_s: so you think that having a direct link in the top bar would be helpful, right?
<troy_s> Hrm... I also just noticed that some of the pages don't have ToCs nor a way to navigate quickly to the subpages -- nothlit did you re-save the artwork page template?
<troy_s> it would seem logical to use it for all pages.
<nothlit> troy_s: i've never edited the artwork page template, the platypus template has it though
<nothlit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/PageTemplate/Header
<troy_s> kwwii: I know I probably _wouldn't_ put an exception link in the top bar, but maybe make it such that whatever sub-sections one has makes it logical to get to the hardy stuff -- in this case I suppose the most relevant would be 'guidelines'.
<nothlit> anyone want any changes?
<troy_s> nothlit: You simply put 'template' in a page title and it is shelved there.
<troy_s> nothlit: You can also use some macros to make it automagically fill in bits.
<kwwii> troy_s: right, now I get it...I think that having a projects page in the main bar and then having that main page point to the hardy project, alternate projects, and a "create new" project might be the best idea
<kwwii> naturally, there will also be guidelines for hardy and those should also be interlinked
<nothlit> I don't know if the other projects are important
<troy_s> kwwii: Yes.  My instincts tell me that 'breaking' any form of developing logic in layouts probably won't help the cause.
<nothlit> other than for the contributors themselves
<kwwii> right
<nothlit> not many people will be interested in modifying oransun or blubuntu, etc
<troy_s> also, i always tend to err on the shallow side of the magic number value -- meaning the five or less -- for total elements of information presented.
<nothlit> my inclination would just to leave it as it is as a link in the Projects section on the main page
<troy_s> one must remember that a short burst of items -- 9 is the MASSIVELY big side of the magic number.
<troy_s> 7 is average.
<troy_s> and 5 is the lower 'common' end, especially when someone isn't trying to remember elements.
<troy_s> http://www.musanim.com/miller1956/
<troy_s> for more quick information on that
<kwwii> nothlit: right, on the project main page there would be a link to the alternate projects (kinda a main page for those projects
<kwwii> )
<kwwii> I have to head out for now...see you guys in a few hours
<troy_s> (and that is a technical way of basically saying that on average, people process 7 elements of information at peak -- 9 for exception -- and 5 at the low end of the exception.  Miller was one helluva bright guy and his research has direct implications in design.)
<troy_s> kwwii: Ciao kww.
<kwwii> ciao troy_s
<lassegul> nothlit: it looks good.
<troy_s> greetings calavera, what brings you around?
<nothlit> this is what it looks like with the main page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork , and this is what it looks like on a concept page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Savanna
<lassegul> hm. you sure we shouldnt skip the index of the other sub pages of /Alternate in the submission pages, and just keep Next and previous.
<nothlit> i would prefer keeping the stuff there and getting rid of the main bar to keep it in the root Alternate and Hardy
<nothlit> people in that area, will just want to browse all the concepts
<lassegul> true
<lassegul> thats what i meant by "pages that might not be their destination".
<nothlit> ahh lol
<nothlit> when kwwii gets back he can decide =p
<lassegul> ja
<nothlit`alpha> anyone have an opinion to montage size? https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/scripts/test/
<coz_> nothlit`alpha, you mean as to its size  ?
<coz_> in what manner
<joejaxx> nothlit`alpha: small looks like an adequate size for a gallery
<nothlit`alpha> as in thumbnails for the wiki stuff
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> it does
<nothlit`alpha> they all fit within 1024x768 afai can tell
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> i think small.png is adequate
<nothlit`alpha> this is the 320x240 sizing atm /home/justin/montage/large.png
<nothlit`alpha> arg
<nothlit`alpha> running more than one x
<nothlit`alpha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionTemplate
<agoliveira> kwwii: Yes?
<kwwii> howdy
<agoliveira> kwwii: What's up?
<kwwii> agoliveira: nothing I just forgot to type / before join, sorry
<agoliveira> kwwii: lol I'm becoming paranoid :)
<kwwii> my server died while I was away
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> no worries
<_MMA_> "died" in what sense?
<_MMA_> HW failure?
<_MMA_> Smoke and ozone smell? :)
<kwwii> one of the fans went out
<kwwii> so it overheated
<kwwii> I turned the others up (nice webserver/java app on the firmware)
<kwwii> nice to find out at 9:39pm that there is a deadline tomorrow
<_MMA_> Ouch.
* _MMA_ has 4 180mm fans in his server (plus 2 smaller ones). Turned down a bit. Pretty quiet actually. I mostly hear the drives.
<kwwii> well, this server is a few thousand miles away
<kwwii> so it is really nice to have a way to interface the hardware without touching it
<_MMA_> Oh.......
<_MMA_> Neat. :)
<kwwii> yeah, and it was for free!
<kwwii> :p
<_MMA_> Nice. I have about $1000 tied up in my home one with the addition of the TB drive.
<kwwii> I just did some work for a large computer manufacturer (3 letter acronym starting with A and ending with D) and they gave me a server to boot
<_MMA_> Killer.
<_MMA_> Whats it run?
<_MMA_> (OS)
<kwwii> bsd naturally :p
<_MMA_> Nice.
<_MMA_> Was gonna do BDS or Debian on my home one. Just said F-it and put Gutsy on it.
<_MMA_> CLI install. SSH into it. Been solid so far.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> linux is not for servers :p
<_MMA_> kwwii: Better than Windows. ;)
<kwwii> _MMA_: hehe, no doubt
<kwwii> man oh man, all-in-all today was a total crap day
<kwwii> this mobile stuff is just killing me
<kwwii> you know it was a bad day when artwork for ubuntu is the best part :p
<kwwii> muahahaha
<kwwii> I knew I should have become an evil scientist or something less stressy
<_MMA_> lol
* _MMA_ just wanted to record musicians for a living. Oh well. That's life. :)
<kwwii> well, i studied civil engineering and didn't like building toxic waste landfills for a living so I got into this stuff
<kwwii> some days I think I should have just stuck with the toxic waste
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> what in the heck is trackerd ?
<kwwii> it is using 69% memory
<nothlit> tracker is like beagle
<_MMA_> Its this search thing.
<kwwii> well it sucks
<kwwii> big time
<_MMA_> If its up that high it might be indexing things.
<kwwii> making my laptop unusable
<kwwii> it should die and go to hell
<nothlit> lol, it shouldnt be active while you're on battery
<nothlit> beagle was even worse though lol =p
<kwwii> I am not on battery but it is making my "user experience" total shit
<_MMA_> Turn off the service.
<_MMA_> (Ubuntu Studio doesnt ship it) ;)
<kwwii> lol, you apparently cannot change the preferences while it is running
<_MMA_> Ouch.
<kwwii> boah, if I was a normal user this would *really* piss my off
<kwwii> s/my/me
* kwwii is out for the night
<troy_s> that indexing service is awful.
<troy_s> 'live' searches should be banished if they are going to hog up proc time.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-12
<nothlit> https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/tablet_fun/ mypaint brush tests :)
<KidProQuo> kwwii: when are the official guidelines for Hardy due out?
<KidProQuo> anyone?
<kwwii> KidProQuo: probably sometime like the end of next week or the beginning of the next
<KidProQuo> kwwii, thanks. I heard it was brown & orange mainly; what kind of orange are we talking? bright, light, dark, etc?
<kwwii> actually it will be black and orange mainly
<kwwii> so the brown is kinda going away
<KidProQuo> that's what I meant, black
<KidProQuo> anyway, what kind of orange?
<kwwii> I'll make a palette soon but I would think that it will be more darker oranges than lighter ones
<KidProQuo> Ok, thanks. I'll get my thinking cap on.
<KidProQuo> :-)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lassegul>  /join #ubuntu-no
<lassegul> sry
<hellraiser_rob> Hey folks, anyone got any tips for someone just joined?
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: What would you like to do?
<hellraiser_rob> I feel i could contribute in quite a few areas, i guess what i'm after is advice as to what needs help working on?
<_MMA_> Well the WIKI for info on Hardy's art will be up soon.
<_MMA_> Reading that will be a good start.
<hellraiser_rob> ah thats explains it, i thought it looked a bit sparce
<hellraiser_rob> i get everything has been tidied now gutsy is going out the door?
<hellraiser_rob> get=guess
<_MMA_> Gutsy is done yes.
<hellraiser_rob> which would be here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy
<hellraiser_rob> ?
<hellraiser_rob> i guess i should wait for the new artwork direction advice
<_MMA_> That will be it yes. I believe its a work-in-progress ATM.
<hellraiser_rob> what kind of work do you do _MMA_?
<_MMA_> I'm the lead on Ubuntu Studio.
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: Do you have examples of your work?
<hellraiser_rob> i guess i would say i'm looking to give something back even if it is a small amount: http://www.robertjamesphillips.com/
<hellraiser_rob> Do you think i could be of any use?
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: If you want to take a look our page is farther along. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: Well that's up to you. Having self-motivation is key IMO.
<hellraiser_rob> interesting concepts for studio
<hellraiser_rob> it's surprising that your going so far away from the main branch design
<_MMA_> So once the pages are further along for Ubuntu, read the wiki and post your ideas.
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: "main branch" is what? Ubuntu?
<hellraiser_rob> yeah sorry i'm not up with the lingo yet
<lassegul> nothlit: ping?
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: np. In any case, if you're looking for an "assignment" it doesnt work that way.
<_MMA_> Just post your ideas to the wiki once its done. :)
<hellraiser_rob> yeah i assumed it would be way to busy for that
<hellraiser_rob> well thanks for the advice
<_MMA_> np
<hellraiser_rob> I also guess there is some technical skill within this "artwork" group in order to implement the designs?
<hellraiser_rob> or are the graphics simply handed over?
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: Could you elaborate?
<_MMA_> Are you asking about the process?
<hellraiser_rob> yeah
<hellraiser_rob> i guess designs are all mocked up first
<hellraiser_rob> revised, changed, finalised.....then sliced up and actually built (as in a theme created etc)
<_MMA_> Yeah. Thats pretty much it.
<hellraiser_rob> and who would build the theme? the art group?
<_MMA_> "build" as in package?
<hellraiser_rob> build as in slice it up and create the theme
<_MMA_> Im still missing what you're saying. :) Do you mean pick the best submissions for each part of the theme?
<_MMA_> ie: icons, walls, GTK theme, etc...
<hellraiser_rob> sorry, my descriptions probably aren't very good
<hellraiser_rob> i mean:
<_MMA_> Ubuntu has a art lead that will take into consideration all opinons. Mark S. also has a say.
<hellraiser_rob> is it up to the artwork team to turn the designs into working parts (themes for example), or do they hand the designs over to another department, who build them
<lassegul> hellraiser_rob: you mean like creating the gtkrc and stuff?
<hellraiser_rob> yeah
<_MMA_> No. People submit that. :)
<_MMA_> Like wallpaper, icons and what have you.
<hellraiser_rob> yeah
<hellraiser_rob> people submit that?  What does that mean?
<hellraiser_rob> oh i think i see
<hellraiser_rob> ignore me now,
<hellraiser_rob> i'm starting to annoy myself
<_MMA_> huh? What have we been talking about for the past 30mins? :)
<_MMA_> :)
<hellraiser_rob> sometimes it's hard to understand bloody text conversations :)
<hellraiser_rob> how do you find time to be lead for studio, do you have a fulltime job?
<_MMA_> No. I'm a stay-at-home Dad.
<hellraiser_rob> that is a full time job!
<hellraiser_rob> i read that the main form of communications is the mailing lists?
<hellraiser_rob> is this the most common way for people to send work etc
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: Using the WIKI? Yes.
<_MMA_> kwwii: You around?
<kwwii> _MMA_: now I am
<_MMA_> kwwii: I was just seeing if you could chime in on my chat with hellraiser_rob and just wondering whats up. How goes the day and all that jazz.
<kwwii> I think I will change my nick to something so overtly positive that people will be nice to me
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, just reading back
<kwwii> _MMA_: today has been ubuntu-mobile hell
<_MMA_> :(
<kwwii> well, nobody wants to work on the weekend and apparently it is a holiday in brazil so last night they decided that today is the deadline
<kwwii> I was up all night
<_MMA_> kwwii: re: nick. My normal internet name (fourms and such) is MetalMusicAddict. I started using IRC when most networks wouldnt take all those characters. So I had to shorten.
<kwwii> hellraiser_rob: there is nobody who officialy helps with getting the more technical pieces together, so we need to search for help among the community developers in other channels, etc
<kwwii> _MMA_: my nick is just my name, abbreviated but for years gnome people gave me shit because they said it meant "k world war 2"
<_MMA_> lol. Nice. ;)
<kwwii> thanks be to god nintendo made the wii :-) now they say I am proud of owning a wii (which I don't even own)
<_MMA_> hahaha
<nysosym> lol
<_MMA_> Man. Dont wanna work on the weekends. pftt... Thats crazy.
<kwwii> I know that I will be working this weekend
<kwwii> but my son is leaving in a bit to stay at a friends house
<kwwii> so I will definitely try not to do too much work tonight
<_MMA_> Yeah. Im not doing much till after UDS.
<_MMA_> Ill get Ubuntu Studio out the door then its time for a break.
<_MMA_> Go to Boston. Have some geeky fun. Eat some food. Spend time away from the crazy kids. Should be fun. ;)
<kwwii> you should do it every 3 months and more as I do to see how un-fun it can be
<kwwii> also, I'll be in Boston for 17 days :-(
<_MMA_> kwwii: Wow. Time enough to miss the family again. :)
<kwwii> time enough to get really sick of sleeping in a hotel rooom
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Yeah. I see that.
<kwwii> and being the only artist I get sick of listening to funny developer stories
<_MMA_> lol.
<nysosym> funny developer stories?
<nysosym> any developer has my greatest respect!
<kwwii> "did you see code X...what I think you need to do is blahblubblah" - everyone chuckles
<_MMA_> And the use of "crackful" get old in reference to code. :)
<_MMA_> kwwii: But the fact that you understand the geeky joke is also telling. ;)
* _MMA_ points at kwwii and yells "NERD"!
* _MMA_ also realizes its the pot callin' the kettle black. ;)
<kwwii> _MMA_: lol, doubt
<kwwii> I kept telling the intel people that they cannot expect me to do the technical stuff as I am just and artist, you should have heard their response
<_MMA_> Which was? :)
<kwwii> basically they said "compared to our artists you are a geek"
<_MMA_> :D
<_MMA_> Our their artists OSX/Windows guys?
<kwwii> pure osx people
<_MMA_> There ya go. :)
<kwwii> well, I have two osx boxes as well
<kwwii> :p
<_MMA_> You are the exception.
<kwwii> I should just learn to shut my mouth
<_MMA_> Most Mac people I know are arty and dont even know they can bring up a terminal.
<kwwii> terminal? what's that? :D
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> guess I should stop chatting with irssi before I say that
<nysosym> i need a terminal very often and i use osx too :D
<kwwii> I just wrote a bash script for a friend so that he can create indexes of his external drives
<_MMA_> kwwii: On what OS?
<kwwii> he does video production and until now was taking screenshots of the finder windows
<kwwii> on OSX
<kwwii> he wanted to be able to look for a file without having to hook up the drive
<kwwii> I came to his office and one wall was nothing but taped-together printouts of screenshots
<_MMA_> There's nothing like Tracker or Beagle in OSX?
<kwwii> sure but he has like 50 external harddisks and did not want to have to hook it up first
<_MMA_> Dont Tracker and Beagle do this.
<_MMA_> Well maybe not.
<_MMA_> 50!? Time to get a couple of TB drives. ;)
<kwwii> he actually was going out to buy newer bigger drives
<kwwii> he also has DVD backups for some stuff but that is very time consuming
<kwwii> of course, he also has the original tapes and such
<_MMA_> Wow.
<kwwii> man, I just saw my christmas present to myself...a 300mm/2.8 nikon lense
<kwwii> costs only 4,500Euros
<kwwii> :p
<nysosym> ahhh a nikon fan :)
<kwwii> my wife just stared at me like I was stupid
<kwwii> guess I will have to buy it when she is not looking
<_MMA_> :D
<kwwii> if she knew how much all my cameras and stuff cost she would probably divorce me
<nysosym> girls doesn't understand what costs so much money on a lense :D
<_MMA_> Im hoping to get a Nokia 770/800 and a 30" Dell LCD Christmas. I doubt Ill get the LDC. I ll have to wait till the spring most likely.
<nysosym> which model do you have kwwii?
<kwwii> nysosym: I have a fuji S5 pro atm
<kwwii> nysosym: but I am going to pick up a D3 when they come out in November
<_MMA_> Oh, and a bigger Wacom pad. :)
<kwwii> I have a big wacom tablet and I love it
* _MMA_ will have to pick kwwii's brain in Boston about cameras.
<kwwii> in fact, if anyone is looking for an a4 intuos3 I would be willing to get rid of it pretty cheap
<_MMA_> kwwii: Really?
* _MMA_ googles
<nysosym> wow a d3 my hearts beats on! :D
<_MMA_> kwwii: Works fine using wacom-tools I suppose right?
<nysosym> kwwii what kind of photos did you shot?
<hellraiser_rob> kwwii: Thanks for the clarification
<kwwii> _MMA_: yepp
<_MMA_> kwwii: Ignore the PM. How many levels of sensitivity? Does it work fully in linux buttons and all?
<kwwii> nysosym: I do all kinds of stuff, although not much sports
<nysosym> kwwii: wow, any examples?
<kwwii> _MMA_: not sure about the extra buttons, been a while since I tried to get them to work
<_MMA_> kwwii: Any chance of bringing it to Boston?
<kwwii> _MMA_: sure I can bring it along
<_MMA_> Cool.
<kwwii> nysosym: www.flickr.com is my personal stuff
<_MMA_> Depending on what you want for it I might be able to get the $ together. The sweatshirts I got printed and the trip in general got me pretty thin atm. Maybe after Boston. December-ish.
<_MMA_> But Im interested.
<nysosym> kwwii: i can't find you there under "kwwii"
<kwwii> _MMA_: I took it with me when I left SUSE so the price will be pretty low :-)
<kwwii> they gave me both my tablets and one of my macs when I left
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Sweet.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Is it a 9X12?
<kwwii> let me find a pic
<kwwii> it is not the really big one
<kwwii> I am keeping that one :-)
<_MMA_> I have a 4x5 now.
<kwwii> erm, I take it back that it is an a4, it is an a5 intuos3
<kwwii> 34.5cm x 25cm or su
<kwwii> so
<kwwii> nysosym: www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii
<kwwii> there are lots of pictures of my son though ;-)
<kwwii> I don't post anything there that I sell, so most of the best pics are not on that page
<nysosym> i see, is see and i like them :)
<_MMA_> Because I'm crazy, I want this: http://www.wacom.com/intuos/12x19.cfm
<nysosym> yes, you are crazy :D
<_MMA_> Ooo.... Cool. http://www.wacom.com/cintiq
<nysosym> i wanne have the wacom display, these is much better as any externel Tablett :)
<_MMA_> Though I want something thats 16:10.
<nysosym> kwwii i love your macro shots!
<hellraiser_rob> Are the majority of the art team US based?
<nysosym> hmm i*ll say no
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, if your monitor is wide, it is worth every penny to get a wide version
<_MMA_> hellraiser_rob: I dont know how much of a "team: it really is. Most of the people who hang out here seem to be pretty spread out.
<kwwii> hellraiser_rob: I would guess that there are more europeans working on artwork than americans at this point
<_MMA_> kwwii: Yeah. After having the 24" LCD I could never go back to 4:3
<kwwii> although I am american I live in germany
<hellraiser_rob> well thats good to know it's diverse
<kwwii> _MMA_: I found that the most important thing is to have a tablet which is at least as big as your monitor
<hellraiser_rob> have a good weekend all
<_MMA_> Bye
<troy_s> what do you guys use your tablets for?
<nysosym> bye
<kwwii> dude, the mailing list got a spam bomb today
<_MMA_> kwwii: Yeah. Seems a tablet the same size as my LCD would be more than the LCD itself. :)
<kwwii> troy_s: I use it to draw with...although it is really nice to use in an "inking" kind of way
<kwwii> _MMA_: lol, you're monitor is too big
<_MMA_> kwwii: We got hit as well. I just block/rejected the address.
<kwwii> I'll give you my small tablet and you give me your monitor
<_MMA_> Pfftt.. No such thing.
<_MMA_> Well the wife gets the 24 if I get the 30. ;)
<_MMA_> Though Apple has a 32 now I think.
<_MMA_> troy_s: You arent using you tablet in Inkscape?
<kwwii> hehe
<nysosym> troy_s: my current work for a computer game :)
<nysosym> http://www.nysosym.de/crazyboy.png
<nysosym> that's what i do with my wacom :)
<_MMA_> Thanx to jono for the link to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1WKYmx4i1Q :)
<kwwii> lol, I think you just turned me on to a new hobby
<_MMA_> :)
<nysosym> much better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZN1puUwH0c ^^
<_MMA_> lolololol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiLAy7mDbw
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> this guy has too much free time
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Theres TONS of videos. I didnt look at them all. I stopped with the cantena clip.
* kwwii heads to the store
<kwwii> be back much later
<_MMA_> Later sir.
<nothlit> kwwii: if you have a tablet as large as your monitor you can do this ;p http://www.bongofish.co.uk/wacom/wacom_pt1.html
<nothlit> theres youtube videos of it as well
<nothlit> i don't find much of an advantage for digital painting, perhaps for inking, or anything in inkscape where zoom is death
<nothlit> but on another computer i just used a tablet meant for writing chinese, never missed the 9x12... i think its more important to get the touchstrips and control buttons if you need them
<nothlit> lassegul: pong
<nothlit> oh, last reason for getting a large tablet would be if you would like to transfer/trace things digitally, rather than scan/shoot and trace as a layer
<Andeh> hai guize :D
<Gadren> hi, i heard that the Ubuntu colors are moving away from brown and more toward orange and black -- is that true?
<nothlit> Gadren: that seems to be what sabdfl prefers, if you want to know about the official direction you'll have to wait for the official page to get populated
<Gadren> nothlit: oh, ok -- is sabdfl a person?
<nothlit> !sabdfl
<ubotu> Mark "sabdfl" Shuttleworth is our favourite cosmonaut, the founder of Canonical and the primary driver behind Ubuntu. You can find pieces of his thinking at http://www.markshuttleworth.com
<Gadren> oh :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-13
<nothlit> wow, quite nice inkscape work https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Animals?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=kuti_heron.svg
<Gadren> that's cool
<kwwii> someone remind me how to increase the font size in an xterm
<nothlit> xterm*faceSize:          10
<kwwii> ?
<kwwii> export that before opening it or what?
<nothlit> put that into your ~/.Xdefaults
<nothlit> if reopening xterm doesn't fix it, use xrdb -load ~/.Xdefaults
<kwwii> well, I really just wanted to increase it for this one session
<kwwii> I am ssh'ing into my server from my samsung q1 with ubuntu-mobile atm
<nothlit> xterm -fs #
<kwwii> ahha, let me try that, brb
<_MMA_> Hmm.. didnt work here. :-/
<nothlit>        -fs size
<nothlit>                This option sets the pointsize for fonts selected from the FreeType library if support for that library was compiled into xterm.  This corresponds to the faceSize resource.
<kwwii> yeah, and on this machine I cannot start an xterm like that
<kwwii> I need something to change it while it is running
<kwwii> hrm
<_MMA_> kwwii: Family in bed?
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, my son is sleeping over at a friends and the wife went to sleep at 11
<kwwii> I fell asleep for a while but woke up
<kwwii> so I thought i would play with my little toy here
<_MMA_> I do that at least twice a week.
<kwwii> but a 7" screen with 1024x600 resolution makes for tiny fonts in xterm
<_MMA_> I can imagine.
<_MMA_> I wanted to SSH with the Nokia Im gonna get. That has a smaller screen. :(
<kwwii> hehe, I did that with my N770
<kwwii> it sucks
<_MMA_> Should I wait for this samsung thing? ;)
<kwwii> wait for the next version
<kwwii> the next ones will have bascially a core-single chip
<kwwii> and a nice intel graphics chip
<_MMA_> samsung q2?
<kwwii> this one has something like a celeron
<kwwii> not sure how they will be named
<_MMA_> Whats the MSRP _supposed_ to be?
<kwwii> I think sony will make one as well
<kwwii> MSRP?
<kwwii> ahh
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> somewhere around 1000 dollars I woudl guess
<kwwii> I got this for free from intel :-)
<_MMA_> Ouch. Might be a bit steep.
<_MMA_> I might get a 770 to play with for a bit. I can grab one for $130 US.
<kwwii> looks like the current version costs around 1500+
<_MMA_> Yeah. That would be a hard-sell to the wife.
<_MMA_> At least $1500 for a 30" screen looks like we got something.
<_MMA_> Though Im fighting her on a $1500 replacement wedding ring. :)
<kwwii> yeah, no doubt
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> did you lose it?
<kwwii> that is like instant divorce
<_MMA_> She developed a nickle allergy. Cant wear gold.
<kwwii> ouch, that sucks
<kwwii> I am allergic to nickle but I have a white-gold wedding band
<kwwii> doesn
<kwwii> 't seem to bother me
<_MMA_> Yeah. I really like her engagement/wedding rings. Slight bummer.
<_MMA_> And replaceing them feels, wrong somehow.
<_MMA_> *replacing
<kwwii> she could just replace you at the same time :p
<_MMA_> lol. Sure. I cant give her kids anymore. She's done with me. :)
<kwwii> oops, just learned one thing
<kwwii> the control center on that machine does not work well
<kwwii> I clicked on another keyboard layout and it immediatly rebooted and just kept rebooting
<_MMA_> Oh hell.
<kwwii> considering that I spent most of the day setting it up to use the new theming and tweaking that it really wasn't worth it
<kwwii> oh shit
<kwwii> I totally screwed it up
<_MMA_> :(
* kwwii reinstalls everything
<_MMA_> ouch
<nothlit`alpha> if you can reinstall everything, you can't just wipe out the messed up config files? =/
<kwwii> I erased all the config files
<kwwii> this thing runs some things as root
<kwwii> and once you do init 3 you cannot go back
<kwwii> so something somewhere is b0rked and it would take more time to figure that out than to just reinstall and redo all the hand-tweaking I did today
<kwwii> it has something to do with matchbox-keyboard not being able to start
<_MMA_> :(
<kwwii> funny thing is, this device has a keyboard built into it *and* I use an external keyboard
<kwwii> all I did was click on the control panel and select keyboard layouts and then select german (didn't even hit "ok") and then it died
<DanaG> Is there an easy way to get my Tangerine icons to be orange again?
<DanaG> I don't like how the Computer icons are now brown.  It clashes with everything else.
<nothlit`alpha> DanaG: grab the ones you want and paste it over the new ones
<DanaG> Is there a nice list of the ones that that change applied to?
<nothlit`alpha> packages.ubuntu.com has the source files for the previous releases
<nothlit`alpha> you can probably grab it from the bzr
<DanaG> I'll look there, then.  Thanks.
<DanaG> I don't see 0.25 on packages.ubuntu.com.
<DanaG> What is bzr?
<nothlit`alpha> !bzr
<ubotu> bzr is Bazaar-NG, a decentralized revision control system designed to be easy for developers and end users alike. Decentralized revision control systems give people the ability to work over the internet using the bazaar development model.  See http://bazaar-vcs.org/QuickHackingWithBzr for a quickstart guide.
<nothlit`alpha> !launchpad
<ubotu> launchpad is a collection of development services for Open Source projects. It's Ubuntu's Bounty and Bug tracker, and much more; see https://launchpad.net/
<DanaG> Yay: http://mirror.linux.org.mt/mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/t/tangerine-icon-theme/?C=N;O=D
<DanaG> Yay, I have my orange icons back.  Cool.
<andreasn> kwwii: around?
<kwwii> andreasn: for a bit
<kwwii> andreasn: you still around?
<andreasn> kwwii: yeah
<andreasn> just wanted to check when you were going to be in and out of boston
<andreasn> I ordered flight tickets already though
<andreasn> arriving 26th, departing 2nd
<kwwii> cool, sounds ok
<kwwii> I will be arriving on the 26th as well but I do not leave for another week
<kwwii> (canonical has an all-hands meeting for one week after the UDS)
<andreasn> ah, I see
<kwwii> andreasn: if you send me your flight info I will add it to our internal wiki (in case I forget or such)
<andreasn> sure
<andreasn> will do
<kwwii> I arrive at 19:35 at Boston Logan airport on the 26th
<kwwii> I'll answer your email with my info as well, just so you know
<kwwii> Also, I'll send you my cell phone number in case of any problems
<andreasn> ah, good
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-14
<catfacts> Ok what is I would be say in school at 1700 UTC
<catfacts> are all the meetings at that time on a friday
<catfacts> cuz ill never get to one
<nysosym> Hi there
<troy_s> http://blog.creativethink.com/heraclitus/index.html
<mhb> hi artists
<troy_s> mhb: What's up mhb?
<mhb> I like the idea of a completely new artwork for Hardy
<mhb> I wonder if you're all devoted to GNOME only, or whether you would like to help improve the KDE (Kubuntu) artwork, too
<mhb> because we're lacking good graphic artists at Kubuntu (well, we have kwwii, but he's immensely busy, and we're a very community project, so we'd welcome some community artwork effort)
<troy_s> I thought everyone was umpty happy in Kubuntu land.
<mhb> heh, I wish.
<mhb> Kubuntu has got only its wallpaper slightly changed for Gutsy - we'd like something radical for Hardy, too.
<mhb> non-wallpaper mockups (window decoration, panel background, colour profile) very welcome
<mhb> I've seen some nice mockups for Ubuntu/GNOME, so I thought perhaps a community-friendly artist could do one or two for KDE, too :o)
<nothlit> i don't see the point of trying to run off and go create a seperate concept for kubuntu, itd be interesting to bring it all into line
<mhb> nothlit: well you're not the first who would like to push brown into kubuntu but that won't happen
<mhb> nothlit: the unique look of KDE is what makes it special/interesting for users
<lassegul> Hello everybody. Im back from 2 days of hell.
<nothlit> mhb: i never said push brown into anything
<mhb> nothlit: you said "bring it all into line", which I interpreted as using unified guidelines for both, of which colour set is an important part
<nothlit> i don't see the point of creating a whole new concept for the same distro though, its more important to unify, they're both ubuntu, if it was kde that was favoured i'd say the same
<mhb> nothlit: if I misunderstood your point, please do correct me
<mhb> nothlit: well, kubuntu and ubuntu are separate in many ways
<mhb> nothlit: not only the amount of cash flown into GNOME
<nothlit> mhb: basically the point is if your going to grab for artists you're basically going to get swishyness, unifying doesn't necessarily mean a mirror image
<nothlit> or does kubuntu just want the gloss look?
<mhb> well it certainly doesn't need angry arguments
<nothlit> ... huh?
<mhb> well you sound a bit agitated :o) it's just that ubuntu and kubuntu has taken a different path than say opensuse
<mhb> we're not one opensuse with two environments that look more or less the same ... we are brothers, but not twins
<nothlit> i realise that, but i'm not saying they need to share the same wallpaper or try to have exactly the same look, but do you really believe that kubuntu is distinct enough to create and promote an identity wholly on its own?
<mhb> and "unifying looks" usually means "copy over from A to B"
<nothlit> if you want to ask for stellar artwork, imho it'd be easier to run with a solid <concept> for everything, otherwise at least one of the *buntu is going to be left behind
<mhb> well, kubuntu doesn't resemble Ubuntu/GNOME today at all, and we'd like to keep that, yes
<mhb> believe me, any such unifying efforts usually tend to drop one DE in the end
<mhb> "it looks the same now, why are we maintaining them both again?" attitude
<mhb> the truth is, the Kubuntu artwork is quite inconsistent because we lack a concept
<mhb> and without graphic artist community we can do little about that
<mhb> we'd like to show that we're proud of being KDE and of being Ubuntu.
<mhb> any unification effort would hinder one or the other.
<troy_s> mhb... hem
<mhb> troy_s: a supporter of consistency?
<troy_s> mhb: I am a huge supporter of audience and goal.  Internal consistency...
<nothlit> thats fine, but i'm of the belief that trying to completely seperate yourself will dilute and confuse both the ubuntu brand and the power that kubuntu draws from it (i'm definitely not saying kubuntu should just be absorbed, i've defended the kubuntu/xubuntu naming a few times)
<troy_s> mhb: I suppose that if the designer realm actually had some experience it would be nice to different twists on a motif.
<troy_s> mhb: In the end however, it is irrelevant -- what should be important in my eyes would be for each distribution to have a strong presence.  Something they currently do not have (for various reasons)
<nothlit> thats what i'd wish for ^, not a complete seperation or mimicry
<nothlit> same as kubuntu is not entirely on its own or entirely the same
<troy_s> mhb: The bigger question would be if the 'core' of K would agree on a concept.  That would be a very difficult thing to achieve I would think.
<troy_s> (by the way, serious +1 on wanting to break out of the bleak landscape of uber-conservativism)
<mhb> troy_s: I think the "KDE" in us is more visible in the technical side of things, like the layout of the Kicker panel ... and the use of the colour blue, which we cannot really give up
<nothlit> you can keep your colour blue or whatever, doesn't mean you can't run with a take on the same concept
<troy_s> mhb yes -- very strange that.
<troy_s> mhb: In an ideal world, what would the KDE folks cite as 'perfection' of execution?
<mhb> nothlit: right, "sharing a concept" is not a bad idea in itself, although I am a bit sceptical about it until the concepts in question are made clear
<mhb> troy_s: I am afraid I don't understand the question well
<mhb> nothlit: also note that you need an artist to build upon a concept and create artwork we can integrate - if you gave us concepts and said "build upon it" we wouldn't produce anything useful
<troy_s> mhb: I guess what I am asking is there some 'ideal' that someone has seen or thinks was excellent work?
<nothlit> mhb: i'll think about a way to gently put on the wiki pages that kubuntu is interested and looking btw
<troy_s> greets tonic-pushcart
<tonic-pushcart> morning
<tonic-pushcart> have headache :(
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: did you get joejaxx bug report about the usplash landing in the upper corner for someone?
<troy_s> joejaxx: I suppose it should technically be filed as a bug against the usplash bzr repo.
<mhb> troy_s: well, when it comes to artwork, the KDE way has never had a specific vision ... but when it comes to users, http://www.nuno-icons.com/images/estilo/image247.png seem to be appealing to many
<mhb> but it's the usual "glass&gloss" metaphor
<tonic-pushcart> troy_s: yeah I did. It is either a problem with the video card deciding to not center the image or with usplash
<troy_s> mhb: Hrm... not much there to go on unfortunately.  I would think that just about anyone should be able to 'clone' an abstract sort of approach though -- or are you specifically referring to the outlines.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Ok good.  At least you were touched on it.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I have to design the full animation for the usplash for myth
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Which is more or less as we discussed, but the animation itself will probably be a lesson in nodal editing / compositing in Blender.
<tonic-pushcart> troy_s: okay   how much time do we have on that?
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I will keep all of the elements in raw format as much as we can.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Plenty.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I would like to deliver the full package before Hardy
<mhb> thanks for the discussion folks, good luck with Hardy artwork, I will be monitoring your efforts :o)
<mhb> I have to go now
<tonic-pushcart> troy_s: I have exams at the moment   two this week   but next week is free
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: But it seems that
<troy_s> mhb: Ciao my friend.
<tonic-pushcart> ...
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: superm1 and foxbuntu have agreed that none of the fresh look will land in gutsy (which I was pretty clear about going into it.)
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: So there is plenty of time.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: And again, most of us are full time 'other' types
<troy_s> which means that it moves at the pace dictated by the other things.
<troy_s> ;)
<tonic-pushcart> troy_s: yeah
<tonic-pushcart> troy_s: oh hey could you look at something for me
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Most certainly.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Yikes... you have found one of my weak spots -- I am a gaming slut.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I have about 400 games in my collection.
<tonic-pushcart> troy_s: 400 boardgames?
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: About that.
<nothlit> LOL
<troy_s> although I have started a nasty trend of buying expensive ones and not opening them
<nothlit> oh wait, they're serioualy board games?
<nothlit> i didn't know there were so many
<troy_s> board games and roleplaying games.
<troy_s> some of the art (timbradstreets stuff) was very influential early going for me in some aspects.
<troy_s> and the design of a solid game is an exercise in brilliant design.
<troy_s> nothlit: That artist is bloody brilliant.
<nothlit> i'm only on about # 340 of his 1000 self portraits
<tonic-pushcart> I agree with that. Boardgame design is hard   you have so many restrictions on what you can do   and you have to account for the social aspect of the game.
<nothlit> he does the conceptart for the metroid games
<tonic-pushcart> for example   with manufacturing you are limited in the number of bits you can have
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: And of course the Kniza's out there are mind blowing.
<tonic-pushcart> mechanics have to be simple. There is no computer...
<nothlit> troy_s: yeah D&G, forgotten realms concept art is brilliant, i wish that sort of book was available in chapters
<tonic-pushcart> troy_s: I pretty much exclusively play Euro style games
<troy_s> Yes.  Simple and yet allow for an impressive building of complexity of depth.  Carcassone for example.
<troy_s> Chess even.
<tonic-pushcart> and in my opinion 'Tigris and Euphrates' is the epitome of the boardgame
<tonic-pushcart> Gameplay is soo tight on that board
<troy_s> nothlit: Brilliant stuff.  Tim Bradstreet defined the look for a bunch of years in White Wolf's stuff.
<troy_s> Tigris is soooo +1
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Kniza's stuff is all killer.
<troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Modern Art is another pretty amazing game.  Hell... his Lord of the Rings game is brilliant.
<tonic-pushcart> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-06
<Hobbsee> Have you guys seen http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/14082/ yet?
<BHSPitMonkey> wtf, a "blatant digression"?
<BHSPitMonkey> this is what happens when people think they're smart
<BHSPitMonkey> Oh my word, those are terrible.
<rsc-> hey.
<rsc-> ;)
<rsc-> I know that with the "no default" policy around here, this'll go to waste.
<rsc-> but i'd love some comments on this.
<rsc-> http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8030/screenshot1ta6.jpg
<rsc-> :D
<rsc-> no likey?
<rsc-> oh well
<lucazade> it's nice rsc!
<lucazade> ;)
<rsc-> thanks thanks :)
<kwwii> sooo...let's pick a new wallpaper and see what people say
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> rsc-: you should show that to nuzum
<rsc-> nuzum?
<kwwii>  
<kwwii> "Matthew Nuzum" <newz@bearfruit.org>
<rsc-> kwwii, sorry bout the whole community backlash against your circles swirl wallpaper.
<rsc-> :(
<rsc-> *group hug*
<kwwii> rsc-: no worries, I was kinda expecting that
<rsc-> any thoughts on what the wall should be?
<kwwii> it had more to do with internal issues than external that I put that wallpaper in anyway
 * karmaferit suggests using a lighter version, how about the same style but with white as the background
<kwwii> until now I have been looking into your stuff and thorsten's remix of it
<rsc-> too dark/busy/aiming-at-a-little-demographic imho
<kwwii> rsc-: I am afraid that, while your pic is really nice, it has too much contrast to be a desktop
<karmaferit> like so http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/countdown_8_10_a_date.png?w=180&h=150
<rsc-> kwwii, so how should it be?
<kwwii> rsc-: well, that is hard to sum up in words, but generally I would say "not so dark, not so busy/less contrast"
<kwwii> although maybe I should put the original dark version of the current wallpaper in
<karmaferit> kwwii: so rumor has it that mark has some kind of art team happening in the shadows?
<rsc-> thorwil, http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8030/screenshot1ta6.jpg
<kwwii> I guess when I say contrast I mean the contrast to the other elements on the screen
<kwwii> karmaferit: we are building a new team, yes
<rsc-> karmaferit, any way i can join in from the other side of the globe? :p
<thorwil> hi!
<thorwil> rsc-: what is that screenshot supposed to tell me?
<karmaferit> rsc-: i've got nothing to do with it actually
<rsc-> thorwil, just something im working on. kinda trying out some Kyudo ideas and hitting the main site with it
<rsc-> karmaferit, oops, that was for kwwii
<karmaferit> rsc-: no worries
<thorwil> rsc-: the Learn More button stands out because of the color
<rsc-> yeah. i didnt want a brown/orange monotone thing
<rsc-> and it should, as a call-to-action
<thorwil> rsc-: well, you know my take on changing the webdesign
<rsc-> not really *shrug*
<thorwil> rsc-: sure, but that color doesn't seem to say: touch me, i feel good
<thorwil> rsc-: i think that we will have a much better stand after having proven our ability with a theme
<rsc-> okay
<thorwil> rsc-: by all means, work on whatever you feel like. i can only say that i think your time could be spent more efficiently in other ways ;)
<thorwil> rsc-: you mockup looks like one could sell coffee with it. that might be a pretty good thing :)
<rsc-> haha coffee shops were an inspriation
<thorwil> kwwii: a decision on the wallpaper? any tweaks i could help with?
<rsc-> thorwil, in what ways?
<rsc-> where can i get a good ibex silhouette?
<thorwil> rsc-: by helping to define the message, mood images, personas if you want to take responsibility for that area, by starting to list parts like windows, wallpaper and widgets and what has to be taken care of for each
<thorwil> rsc-: what kind of view exactly?
<rsc-> i got an idea of showing a landscape of a mountain with a small ibex perched on top of a cliff.
<rsc-> ...in silhouette
<thorwil> rsc-: http://picasaweb.google.com/uriahyaniv/TheNabateanCityOfOvdatAvdatAndNearbyNahalOvdat#5140434436365813042
<rsc-> hehe, could work
<rsc-> thanks
<thorwil> rsc-: everyone's favorite has been http://pages.usherbrooke.ca/mfesta/images/IsraelIbex1.jpg
<thorwil> but he has a broken horn
<kwwii> I had an idea on vacation, not sure how to realize it though: http://flickr.com/photos/kwwii/2801625988/
<thorwil> rsc-: and i have an SVG shape, but it looks a bit silly: http://www.ubuntu.com/files/countdown/810/c_brown/countdown_8_10_c_00_days_a_here.png
<thorwil> rsc-: you can have my 25 ibex pictures, but i already linked the good ones regarding posture
<rsc-> gimmie
 * thorwil packs and mails
<rsc-> rico@ambiescent.com :)
<thorwil> rsc-: is an 9 MB attachment acceptable?
<rsc-> as long as gmail can accept it
<rsc-> i think 10mb's the limit, so yeah
<rsc-> http://www.sxc.hu/photo/350608
<rsc-> EEEEEEEEEEEEE :D
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> kwwii: well, with a screen filling rock texture shot and layer effects it should be relatively straightforward. getting said shot not, necessarily, though :)
 * thorwil -> coffee
<thorwil> plop
<rsc-> hmmm.
<rsc-> an idea, i has it
<rsc-> http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9432/ibexidea2dn8.jpg
<thorwil> why the inverse contrast?
<rsc-> shrug
<rsc-> (pardon the grundge, lots of leftover layers)
<rsc-> was thinking it'd need to be dominantly orange/brown
<rsc-> and the bottom has to contrast against it without making the thing dark
<thorwil> rsc-: i think it would be better with normal contrast. as is, it has a gothic/techno feel
<rsc-> but anyway the main idea is a mountainscape + ibex silhouette.
<rsc-> maybe someone can iterate on that :)
<kwwii> rsc-: that is pretty cool :-) is the source available?
<rsc-> not really
<savvas> what do you think: http://savvas.radevic.com/previews/ubuntu-ibex/ubuntu-ibex-0.8.png - sucks? :p
<kwwii> so, test out this panel bg for the light human theme
<kwwii> http://sinecear.de/panel_light.png
<kwwii> oh, and don't forget to set the gconf key to stretch the panel bg
<thorwil> http://www.sinecera.de/panel_light.png actually
<savvas> I'm not familiar with panel bgs.. but shouldn't they be pixmaps or something?
<thorwil> savvas: what do you think what that .png is?
<thorwil> kwwii: appears rather dark compared to the plain default
<savvas> ah ok
<savvas> as I said, I don't know about pixmaps :P
<savvas> just read that in some old email archive in artwork's mailing list :)
<savvas> what was the default size of a panel, 30 pixels?
<thorwil> 24
<savvas> thanks, looks nice on my end :)
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I might have made the sizes a bit too dark
<kwwii> ohhhh, on this computer it is quite dark
<kwwii> I love my new system and all but everything looks too good on on it :p
<thorwil> http://ilovetypography.com/img/english-diacritics.jpg
<rsc-> nah
<rsc-> that's what makes the other languages special :)
<rsc-> if the global lingua franca has them too, the special characters won't be too special
 * xanax` appreciates that English language's easy
<savvas> maybe easy on the eye, but not in spelling :p
<kwwii> not that the "I" at the top of that picture should have been blue :-)
<kwwii> s/not/note
<thorwil> kwwii: seems the panel bg has the side effect of removing the outline around unfocused window items
 * thorwil wonders how to better structure the kyudo main page
<TuniX12> hello
<kwwii> thorwil: yes but on the mouse-over you see one :-)
<thorwil> kwwii: oh, i'm fine with, just the coupling with settings that say nothing about this is ... a bug
<kwwii> thorwil: the whole panel is a bug if you ask me
<kwwii> someone seriously needs to rewrite the panel
 * kwwii makes dinner for the family, bbl
<TuniX12>  who is reponsible of rmaking default wallpaper for ubuntu?
<thorwil> TuniX12: why do you ask?
<TuniX12> is the wallpaper of intrepid beta the final one?
<TuniX12> its really horrible an unprofessional
<thorwil> TuniX12: chances are good that it will be replaced
<TuniX12> look at this  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/14082/
<TuniX12> good idea
<thorwil> oh dear, the sounds say Windows
<thorwil> TuniX12: i understand your position but have to say that the uproar has been noticed and there's nothing else to do than to wait and see. except perhaps if you actually want to create artwork yourself
<TuniX12> there are many good backgorunds here but they choose the ugly one for intrepid beta     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid
<TuniX12> sorry for my bad english
<thorwil> TuniX12: it is not too clever to show us our own wiki ;)
<thorwil> TuniX12: no problem with your english at all so far
<TuniX12> thorwil i know that it is "your" wiki i'm not new to ubuntu
<thorwil> TuniX12: what i meant to express is that we are all very familiar with the submisions there
<thorwil> kwwii: i think the vertical gradient of the panel bg stays a bit weird in my eyes, as the titlebars and other stuff next to it is rather uniform in that direction
<kwwii> thorwil: well, i tried to make it fit well with the active window decoration
<kwwii> making it lighter will make the gradient less noticable, perhaps an improvement in that area
<thorwil> hmm. cory is still the only other one subscribed to kyudo wiki pages
<thorwil> rsc-: the mountain scape background ... do you think a version with normal contrast, brighter sky, cropped and much smaller could be good for the wubi site?
 * thorwil throws tribbles at rsc- 
<savvas> I found a great way of promoting art.. pARTicipation! I was listening to a serbian podcast, when I saw "When artists share their ideas with non artists you get pARTicipation" :)
<thorwil> 0.o
 * savvas minimizes thorwil 's eye :p
<thorwil> hi aantn, ye who you appear when i will leave soon :)
<Half-Left> Hello folks, ibex still put for a change in artwork/wallpaper?
<Half-Left> up*
<kwwii> yes, the wallpaper will change
<kwwii> enough info?
<kwwii> night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-07
<gaminggeek> rsc-: your the dust developer eh?
<rsc-> yep.
<gaminggeek> cool
<gaminggeek> I'm loving your theme :)
<gaminggeek> found a bug with it on monodevelop
<rsc-> Kido helps out with the technical aspects, but I'm the one who's started it and the self-appointed aesthetics guy.
<rsc-> oh?
<rsc-> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dusttheme
<rsc-> :
<gaminggeek> gonna submit a bug report..
<rsc-> :)
<gaminggeek> do you need any further infomation or will a screenshot do?
<rsc-> just whatever it is you need to get your point across. a screenshot will help a lot, plus steps to reproduce (if any)
<rsc-> hey just as a drive-by feedback-gathering, what do you think of the new wallpaper?
<rsc-> http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/776/screenshoton3.jpg
<gaminggeek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dusttheme/+bug/279581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279581 in dusttheme "Fonts too light monodevelop preferences" [Undecided,New]
<gaminggeek> oh wow that is nice!
<rsc-> ouch.
<rsc-> i think this is a problem with monodevelop
<gaminggeek> :/
<rsc-> a similar bug exists with Evolution's prefs pane
<gaminggeek> I dont know if I like the way you have done its horns...
<rsc-> i apologize im not familiar on how to fix it, but maybe Kido can figure it out
<rsc-> why not?
<gaminggeek> hmm
<gaminggeek> looks a little to messy maybe
<gaminggeek> personally tast I guess
<gaminggeek> fedora :O
 * rsc- thinks the whole thing is too messy anyway
<rsc-> yeah, i'm using the foxtrot icon theme for now.
<rsc-> (but it's ubuntu)
<gaminggeek> ah ok :D
<gaminggeek> I like the colours of the background
<gaminggeek> and the texture you have him sitting on
<rsc-> oh cool
<rsc-> thanks
<gaminggeek> I dont know how much control you have over the firefox theme but if you make into fullscreen mode the close min and restore buttons are almost illegible
<gaminggeek> and the spinner is a little dark if your being overly nitpicky :P
<gaminggeek> btw is the little arrow thing on the bottom right hand side of the window final?
<rsc-> hehe
<rsc-> i started the firefox theme
<rsc-> haven't been able to work on it much though.
<mrooney> rsc-: very nice new background :)
<rsc-> I can see that minmaxclose issue
<gaminggeek> :)
<rsc-> still no idea on how to fix it right now, but I'll inspect on it when I get time
<gaminggeek> cool
<rsc-> mrooney, no reservations against it being the release's default?
<rsc-> thanks for the bugreport btw, gaminggeek
<gaminggeek> rsc-: no problem :)
<mrooney> rrsc-: nope, I quite hope it is!
<kwwii> ok, so the themes package is being split...maybe we could include some other neat themes instead
<thorwil> hi rsc-!
<rsc-> hola :)
<kwwii> hi guys
<thorwil> kwwii: how are you doing? none of the mob found out your address yet? :)
<rsc-> ugh i can't believe the backlash on the forums
<thorwil> rsc-: i think it has to do with the spirit of ubuntu. linux for the poop throwing monkeys. humanity for no one ^^
<rsc-> hehe
<kwwii> I am used to the forums being more a waste of of time than anything serious
<rsc-> and a source of unintentional comedy
<thorwil> rsc-: i hope i can work through getting the message down this week. and also add a bit about the audience
<rsc-> great
<thorwil> rsc-: perhaps then i will have a brief go at moods
<thorwil> next could be guidelines for wallpaper, windows and widgets
<thorwil> to then create mockups, several variations for each widget
<rsc-> okay
<thorwil> rsc-: sounds like a plan? somthing to add or would you suggest a different route?
<rsc-> wpi;dm
<rsc-> wouldn't that be a little to rigid and restrictive?
<thorwil> in what way?
<rsc-> "okay guys let's do widgets. just widgets. give us your button and dropdown concepts now."
<thorwil> rsc-: well, in the ned widgets need to be developed in context
<thorwil> rsc-: but so far it has worked like this: boom! widget is there, right in place. i have been missing design variations made visible
<thorwil> having a go at a single widget without thinking about the others might lead to new ideas
<thorwil> rsc-: so it would be: create a large pool and see what swims. to only then build a family of the survivors
<rsc-> okay
<thorwil> rsc-: how do your own plans look like?
<thorwil> kwwii: what do you think about my plans?
<rsc-> i haven't really thought of it much
<kwwii> thorwil: I think it sounds ok, but you have to stay flexible enough to accept different ideas at different times and to completely rethink everything if something related changes
<thorwil> kwwii: sure. with the exception that complete rethinking is not an option too close to release :)
<kwwii> thorwil: one thing that I think is important to know is that these kinds of processes can take longer than 6 months and therefor do not fit easily into a release cycle
<kwwii> an icon theme takes years to get near completion
<thorwil> kwwii: without the goal to have something for the next release, i don't think i could motivate any contributors
<thorwil> kwwii: oh sure, Breathe will need more time
<kwwii> right, so the plans need to take into account the long term as well as the release cycles
<thorwil> guess we should have a breakpoint. work in freewheeling mode, following the long process until a date where we need to care about the upcoming release
<kwwii> and even breathe can use a long term plan with snapshots at releases
<thorwil> kwwii, rsc- you both have much more experience to enable you to set such a date ;)
<kwwii> once you know what you want to change and have a good idea of how long it will take to get done things clear up a big
<kwwii> s/big/lot
<kwwii> crazy, not sure what I am thinking when typing :p
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> i like the sound of "clear up the big", though
<kwwii> wow, I got a request from the american department of defense and department of homeland security for a bootsplash screen :p
<thorwil> lol
<kwwii> kind anifty, really, they have servers booting from openbios with the splash stuff built into it so it appears immediately and does all kinds of neat stuff (and at 24bit)
<kwwii> kinda nifty
<kwwii> aahh, the bootsplash, it still brings in work even 8-9 years after we wrote it
<rsc-> kwwii, how?
<rsc-> hwo did they contact you?
<kwwii> so how much money would someone pay me to put an easter egg in the firmware for America's servers?
<rsc-> is it like something in the movies ("Are you Mr. Wimer? Sir we have a request from General McGrady for a special civilian operation for you, please come with us")
<kwwii> rsc-: the code is taken from the bootsplash that I wrote with a friend 9 years ago
<rsc-> :D
<kwwii> I asked for details and they told me that they basically copied everything as it was
<kwwii> the linux kernel wouldn't accept the patch but the friggin US government has included it in the kernel that they boot their servers with :p
<rsc-> usplash theme?
<rsc-> interesting
<kwwii> nope, the usplash takes it's name from the fact that it is totally in user space (u-splash) whereas the bootsplash (which we wrote at suse about 9 years ago) was the first of its kind and a funky kernel patch
<kwwii> we wrote our own jpeg decoder, animated png display stuff, and more
<thorwil> good night! :)
<rsc-> oh okay.
<rsc-> interesting
<rsc-> anyone got any tips for me? I'm cooking chili tonight :D
<kwwii> it's the only reason that most geeks will talk to me more than 5 min :p
<kwwii> chili con carner?
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> carne?
<rsc-> yes
<kwwii> cumin is the important spice
<rsc-> so how did they contact you?
<rsc-> "We need your help with our computers splash screens. Will you be able to do you patriotic duty and help America?"
<rsc-> i unfortunately don't have cumin
<kwwii> ouch, that sucks
<kwwii> that is really bad then
<rsc-> i have paprika and oregano and cayenne powder though
<kwwii> hrm, maybe a bit of koriander instead
<kwwii> but that would make it more like curry than chili
<kwwii> real mexican chili is totally different anyway
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> oregano is a good replacement for the koriander
<kwwii> or coriander, I guess
<rsc-> cool hehe
<kwwii> no k in non-german languages
<kwwii> it is the ground up seed of the same plant used in mexican cooking (only they use the leaf fresh)
<kwwii> cilantro
<kwwii> I know quite a lot about cooking :-)
<rsc-> okay.
<rsc-> it's basically tomatoes + water + beef + spices, yeah?
<kwwii> right, but you could substitute a beer for the water
<kwwii> or a beef broth
<kwwii> chili con carne translates to chilis with meat ...you should really add some red pepper or such
<rsc-> beer?
<rsc-> wow haha :)
<rsc-> well, the girlfriend likes it mild.
<kwwii> one secret that I add at the very end is a very little bit of cocoa
<kwwii> and I mean very little or it tastes too much
<kwwii> cocoa is often used in south american cooking
<kwwii> like half a teaspoon for a pot of chili for 3-4 people
<rsc-> really? why? i'll try that on the next batch.
<rsc-> i got some red bell pepper
<kwwii> if nothing else, take a small bowl aside and put a tiny bit of cocoa into it, it tastes great, it rounds the taste
<kwwii> yes, definitely fresh bell peppers
<kwwii> and onions
<rsc-> I know it's not spicy, but would it help to add some of that for taste?
<rsc-> nice okay
<kwwii> be sure the brown the meat before anything else
<kwwii> brown the meat, and then add the spices
<kwwii> a couple of minutes later add the rest
<kwwii> the spices can only release their flavor in oil
<rsc-> brown the meat and sauteed in with some garlic and onions, right?
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> garlic and onions are added after the meat is basically done
<rsc-> cool
<kwwii> they release water so the beef will not overcook
<rsc-> oh okay
<rsc-> wouldn't the onions take a bit lnoger to cook?
<rsc-> so it's meat first before anything els?
<rsc-> e
<kwwii> well, because they are cut in larger pieces the onions take a bit longer because they do not all fall right to the bottom of the skillet like garlic
<kwwii> yes, meat first
<kwwii> and when it is good and brown (somewhat crispy) add the spices
<kwwii> and the onions
<kwwii> then the garlic
<kwwii> then the peppers
<kwwii> you might want to peel the peppers or they will loose their skins after cooking
<kwwii> although you can remove them later with a spoon or such
<kwwii> you want to cook the bell peppers less than anything else
<rsc-> okay
<kwwii> if you had a more spicy flavor I would also suggest a tablespoon of brown sugar
<kwwii> just do not add black pepper until the end
<rsc-> spices = oregano cumin cayennepowder paprika, they're all i got for now
<rsc-> oh and that too
<kwwii> then try to avoid using too much cayenne or it will taste funky
<kwwii> add it slowly and taste it a lot :-)
<rsc-> after the peppers, add in water + tomato paste + diced tomatoes?
<kwwii> how much meat do you ahve?
<kwwii> I like to add stewed whole tomatoes (learned that from my mom) but adding diced tomatoes or canned tomatoes as well as tomato paste is correct
<rsc-> i have 1/2 kilos of ground beef but ill probably use half of that for now
<kwwii> in germany I buy a bottle of piri-piri chilis and use a couple of them to up the heat
<kwwii> yeah, 250g for two people should be more than enough
<kwwii> I use around 500 or 3-4 (one of them being my hungry son who likes left-overs)
<rsc-> ah, nice.
<rsc-> all i got here for heat are cayenne powder and a chili sauce that comes in a bottle
<kwwii> usually 100-150g of meat is normal per person per meal
<rsc-> on another one, what recipes can i use turmeric for?
<kwwii> in the case of stews and chili and soups you can use less as there are more ingredients
<kwwii> lol, not many
<rsc-> another note*
<kwwii> it is very close to dried mustard
<rsc-> okay 100 to 150, ill keep that in mine
<rsc-> mind
<kwwii> you can subsitute it for anything that needs dry mustard (which isn't much either)
<kwwii> you can make a great curry with it, and a good chutney
<rsc-> okay
<kwwii> ie it is good in indian food
<rsc-> oh okay
<rsc-> thats great i plan to try some curry next
<kwwii> oh, but be carefull using tumeric, it is yellow and will stain anything yellow
<kwwii> and it gets stronger when cooked
<kwwii> so you add it, cook it, and then taste it
<rsc-> oh and no flour/cornstarch for the chili?
<kwwii> no, there should be no need to thicken it
<kwwii> you should cook it down until it is thick enough
<kwwii> oh, and in america it would have beans in it
<kwwii> the beans thicken things up a bit I guess
<kwwii> but if this is for the girlfriend and you want to have a nice romantic evening you might not want the beans
<kwwii> in order to thicken things up a bit you could, theorecticaly add a bit of flower when you add the last stuff to the meat
<kwwii> if you do add flower make sure to cook it a bit in oil/fat/butter
<kwwii> and then let it cool off a few degrees and then add liquids
<kwwii> then it will have a thickening effect and not just make ugly clumps
<kwwii> do not add flower to liquid directly :-)
<kwwii> cornstarch would thicken it as well, guess you know how to use that
<rsc-> of flower..?
<kwwii> ? not sure I get you ?
<rsc-> "theorecticaly add a bit of flower"?
<rsc-> OH
<rsc-> flour
<rsc-> sorry :)
<kwwii> well, it would not be the correct way to make chili, but you could do it
<kwwii> I doubt that there are rules that everyone follows :-)
<rsc-> hehe, alright.
<kwwii> when are you cooking this?
<kwwii> I would seriously suggest getting cumin and chilis
<rsc-> its 4 in the morning here
<rsc-> ill cook some for me (for brunch later) and some more next week
<kwwii> hehe, cool...good luck!
<rsc-> hehe thanks :)
<gaminggeek> what are you cooking?
<kwwii> little babies
<kwwii> in a sweet-sour sauce
<kwwii> I know, I know...that is horrible! They belong in a nice white wine-butter sauce
<kwwii> the thing about cooking babies is that you need really big pots
<kwwii> so we are talking about cooking very small babies
<kwwii> :p
<gaminggeek> kwwii: 'cause they are delicious?
<kwwii> gaminggeek: exactly
<Cimi> hi
<kwwii> Cimi: updates are still coming...no worries
<rsc-> kwwii, i put too much canned diced tomatoes in
<rsc-> but the bell peppers really gave quite a taste
<rsc-> it seems it really needs quite a lot of spices for it to taste
<rsc-> thanks :)
 * rsc- thinks the chili he did kinda tastes a bit too much like spaghetti sauce
<rsc-> :P
<Cimi> kwwii, GtkEntry::honors-transparent-bg-hint = 1 in the new gtkrc
<Cimi> also take a look at this http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2008/10/04/more-murrine-mockupsglazestyles/
<kwwii> Cimi: can you send that to me in an email? I am passing out here and don't want to miss out
<Cimi> kwwii, no I'm going to bed. I've told you I'm really busy and I don't have a laptop ;)
<Cimi> bye bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-08
<kwwii> amazing...people now think that the bug tracker is for commentary
<kwwii> "I represent all ubuntu users because I am an unbuntu user" - great statement
<ziroday> kwwii: where?
<kwwii> ziroday: in a bug report...no worries
<ziroday> ah :)
<dashua> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-1.png
<dashua> Some new murrine tweaks to human-murrine.  What do you think?
<kwwii> dashua: what did you change?
<zniavre> dashua:  icon theme is great what name it is please?
<dashua> kwwii: I added the new new glazestyle=5 and lowered the contrast to .65 which gives a nice subtle look.  Also added GtkEntry::honors-transparent-bg-hint = 1 for  rounded entries in web pages.
<dashua> zniavre: A combo of the Breathe Icon Set and whats missing from that is Human.
<Nece228> im using murrine storm cloud right now
<Nece228> it seems to be faster than other murrine themes
<zniavre> dashua:  thank you
<dashua> zniavre: Np :)
<dashua> zniavre: Sorry, reboot new Nvidia drivers 177.80.  Working good :)
<zniavre> still beta drivers ?
<rsc-> hiiii
<kwwii> howdy
<kwwii> rsc-: just answered your email
<rsc-> yeah, seeing what i can do about the colors
<thorwil> tweaking earthen ibex?
<rsc-> yep.
<rsc-> on a side note, i managed to get some cumin today from the grocery store and 'adjusted' my leftover chili with it. :p
 * rsc- now regrets making earthenibex waaayyy too messy
<thorwil> adjusting chili with cumin is new to me
<rsc-> "adjusting" meaning just reheating it and adding more spices to it
<rsc-> (because I cooked it /without/ cumin)
<rsc-> uploading a preview of the adjusted one now (with more gold-ish colors)
<thorwil> =8-[]
<rsc-> =8-[]?
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/cave3.jpg
<thorwil> rsc-: hair-big-eyes-mouth open-wide regarding cooked /without/ cumin
<rsc-> haha.
<rsc-> I didn't have any. :P
<rsc-> (for the record, now i got more than enough)
<rsc-> i thought it was in response to the comment about the gold color.
<thorwil> that's not earthen ibex any longer. i like it better
<rsc-> yeah. I'm not sure about the new additions right now though (the dust and the gems)
<zniavre> it looks prehistorical (if the word is correct) i like it
<thorwil> rsc-: where's the bg texture from?
<rsc-> yeah, i think Kenneth was the one who was pointing towards the "cave painting" direction
<thorwil> yes
<rsc-> thorwil, layered from a few textures from cgtextures.com
<rsc-> (crosses fingers that that'd be alright :()
<rsc->  http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/cave2.jpg before adjustment
<thorwil> rsc-: do they have any words about licenses on that sit?
<rsc-> "No payment or royalties are required to use these Textures"
<rsc-> "The use of Textures is non-exclusive, royalty free, and you have the right to modify them"
<thorwil> rsc-: no doubt, the new one fits titlebar color better
<rsc-> thorwil, titlebar color of human?
<thorwil> rsc-: lacks a word about re-distribution. but i guess if no single texture can be made out in your image, it'Ãs safe
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> or any toned down orange
<rsc-> thorwil, im just quoting snippets from their document
<rsc-> i think theres a clause about it there
<thorwil> ah found the page
<rsc-> http://www.cgtextures.com/content.php?action=license
<rsc-> yep.
<rsc-> really nice resource site, jsut found it recently
<thorwil> "Can I use these textures in my Open Source (Creative Commons, GPL, etc) project?
<thorwil> No, unfortunately the textures cannot be used in Open Source projects because the licenses are not compatible. Allmost all Open Source licenses allow redistribution of the materials, which is not allowed for these textures."
<rsc-> right
<rsc-> hehe
<rsc-> oh well.
<thorwil> but that likely is about unmodified re-distribution
<rsc-> yeah
<rsc-> i think it's saying it in the context of including the unmodified file as, say, a 3d texture in a GPL'd piece of software
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> rsc-: i'm not sure the gems will be understood as such, but they are a nice touch
<rsc-> they made more sense when that area was darker (i.e., not on the one i showed), i was planning to do some sort of space-y abstract thing there
<rsc-> but with the new color direction im not sure anymore
 * thorwil sets as background
<rsc-> ah whatever, i'll figure out where to go from here :)
<rsc-> cool :)
<thorwil> rsc-: human windows on top if it look almost cold in comparison
<rsc-> cold?
<thorwil> rsc-: yes. cave3 has a quite warm feel and the grey and muddy orange of the windows loose in that competition
<rsc-> i was afraid of that.
<rsc-> i just toned down the saturation a bit
<thorwil> rsc-: now reducing saturation could fix that, but would also risk to make it drab. i would try to make it just a bit darker
<rsc-> im just afraid of repeatnig the "way-too-dark" mistake of earthenibex
<rsc-> hehe
<thorwil> understandable
<rsc-> i'll call it a night and do the adjustments tomorrow (its 12 midnight here) :)
<thorwil> kwwii: is changing the titlebar color an option?
<thorwil> rsc-: ooh, sleep you very well!
<rsc-> who did the warty wallpaper?
<rsc-> that looked nice.
<Borzo> gidday
<kwwii> thorwil: not really
<kwwii> thorwil: we could change it slightly but not by very much
<kwwii> in the meantime I spoke to mark about the themeing
<kwwii> and he thinks that although we did say we would include something new we should wait until we have our new team together
<kwwii> and with that, I will spend some time helping my son with his homework
<kwwii> bbl
<thorwil> hello Borzo
<Borzo> hi thorwil
<kwwii> thorwil: do you know of any way to subscribe to all the KyÅ«dÅ pages at once?
<kwwii> I am subscribed to the main page, but that doesn't change much
<thorwil> kwwii: no, have been wondering myself
<thorwil> kwwii: i will post to the list about any more noteworthy edit/addition
<thorwil> although opening all pages in tab to cycle through them and clicking subscribe everywhere doesnt take long :)
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I'll do that in the end, just thought I should ask first
<kwwii> I am not the wiki-king in any sense
 * kwwii doesn't like wikis (but don't tell anyone)
<thorwil> hmm, didn't use wikis much before. it's a good tool for this
<kwwii> I was born before the days of computers...been thinking about getting a t-shirt that says "I hate emails"
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> just added a section "Means to Express the Message" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Message
<thorwil> all other edits already on the ML
<thorwil> good night!
<kwwii> night man, sleep well
<kwwii> see you soon
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-09
<rsc-> why on earth is the wiki immutable? :(
<thorwil> immutable?
<thorwil> where?
<thorwil> rsc-: you surely do have an account and are logged in?
<kwwii> rsc-: you should be able to change things
<kwwii> rsc-: I am going to put cave3 in intrepid
<kwwii>  :-)
<thorwil> hmm. http://kasrakeshavarz.wordpress.com/2008/10/04/Ø±ÙØ²Ø´ÙØ§Ø±Û-ØªØ§-Ø§ÙØªØ´Ø§Ø±-Ø¨Ø²-Ø¨ÛâØ¨Ø§Ú©/
<kwwii> I for one, disagree completely
<kwwii> (like I understand anything :p)
<thorwil> not? surprise! :)
<thorwil> i got links in 8 or 9 languages back to me for the countdown banner
<kwwii> killer! that is really cool
<thorwil> and one hack of the banner to make it finnish: http://www.ubuntu-fi.org/
<thorwil> kwwii: which made me wonder if these should offered with translations right away. of course, english alone has been enough work :)
<thorwil> well, just a thought thrown out for the far away next round
<kwwii> yeah, sonunds kinda crazy ot me
<thorwil> i am kinda crazy :)
<kwwii> :D
<thorwil> kwwii: looks like one might subscribe to pages blow a common root using regex for the list of subscribed pages as it appears in user prefs
<thorwil> below, even
<kwwii> hehe, oh well... I went through them all and subscribed to them last night
<kwwii> I didn't think about doing it that way
<thorwil> there's an example: WikiSandBox/.*
<kwwii> I was hoping for some simple command (subscribe to all linked pages or such)
<thorwil> kwwii: i neither, even though i was on my prefs page before
<thorwil> those nerdy coders ;)
<kwwii> lol, no doubt
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-10
<rsc-> kwwii, but its not even 1920!
<zniavre> hello can i use the intrepid background image to make a gdm theme and give it  to gnome-look.org ?
<lucazade> of course you can
<lucazade> it's gpl
<zniavre> thank you ,
<lucazade> i'm looking if it's also Creative Common, btw i don't see any issue with it
<zerwas> umm isn't GPL good enough?
<lucazade> yes i think it is
<gaminggeek> Hello
<jianfei> a great ass shot of mrs. jianfei! http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mrsjianfeikh3.jpg
<kwwii> anyone running intrepid and my ppa will want to check for updates and install them
<kwwii> let me know of any problems
<yanndinendal> hi kwwii
<yanndinendal> I've done the update
<yanndinendal> but I don't see the difference
<yanndinendal> what has changed ?
<yanndinendal> kwwii, should I log out to see the new theme and background?
<Cimi> kwwii, which version of murrine did you packaged?
<kwwii_> Cimi: the old snapshot should still be in...planning on putting all the new stuff in on Monday
<Cimi> kwwii_, please change the metacity
<Cimi> and fix menuitem's separators
<kwwii_> Cimi: which part of metacity were you refering to?
<Cimi> human metacity
<Cimi> totally not consistent
<kwwii_> well, the metacity is the one we have been using for ages
<kwwii_> I might be able to hack on it a bit over the weekend
<kwwii_> but my brother just came into town
<Cimi> ubuntu maybe has the bad theme between all distro
<kwwii_> lol
<Cimi> just mandriva is worste
<kwwii_> gotta pick up my wife from the train station, bbiab
<SiDi> Hello, anyone around ?
<thorwil> SiDi: hi, perhaps
<kwwii_> maybe
<SiDi> Hi
<SiDi> I'ld like to know, do you have any idea where i could get the Ibex official themes from without having to get the whole liveCD?
<kwwii_> there are three packages which install themes
<kwwii_> apt-get source will get the source code
<kwwii_> the package names are gnome-themes, human-theme, and community-themes
<kwwii_> so....
<SiDi> alright
<kwwii_> apt-get source gnome-themes
<SiDi> but i'll get those of my repo, 8.04
<kwwii_> etc
<kwwii_> erm, right...there is a way to get that somehow...hrm
<kwwii_> not sure
<kwwii_> launchpad
<SiDi> ah yeh
<SiDi> good idea
<kwwii_> get them from the bzr repo
<zniavre> really nice the wall from PPA
<kwwii> argh, my server has gone crazy :-(
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-11
<Ravenseye> evenin all
 * Ravenseye sets up a small desk and begins to putter around.
<brunus> great ! ...I love the new Ibex wallpaper
<brunus> I mean this one : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=943693
<brunus> imho, need a little bit more colors, it's quite monochromatic, but the actual balance between light and darkness is optimal
<karmaferit> wow nice ^^
<karmaferit> now just to replace those ugly human icons
<hagabaka> what font packaged in ubuntu is suitable for general use but more interesting than bitstream?
<elkbuntu> hagabaka, search for ttf-* and you should get a good selection
<Nece228> why dust theme dont works for me?
<Nece228> it shows me simple theme instead of dust
<jianfei> !dow
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about dow
<Cimi> kwwii_, ping
<jianfei> http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intrepiddustyv5.jpg
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-12
<shaney101> hello i tried changing my usplash but now it just shows a cursor blinking
<jianfei> shaney101: can u still boot?
<shaney101> hello anyone here?
<gaminggeek> hello rsc--
<rsc--> wahtsup
<gaminggeek> notalot
<gaminggeek> how is dust going?
<jianfei> hey mate
<jianfei> GG: you got a good login ?
<jianfei> im looking for a good gdm
<rsc--> Kido's working on it
<rsc--> lots of fixes in the past few days/weeks.
 * rsc-- hates his own wallpaper :(
<rsc--> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_10_Has_a_Brand_New_Wallpaper
<rsc--> versus http://www.behance.net/Gallery/Intrepid-Ibex/13289
<jianfei> dust theme working well
<jianfei> added some spec circles
<jianfei> require a login to suite
<jianfei> however....amsn..icon causes color issue around it when adding the recommended background
<rsc--> did you file a bug report?
<jianfei> rsc: me?
<jianfei> it messes with transparency
<jianfei> i also noticed skype did
<jianfei> perhaps the animations
<rsc--> yes
<rsc--> bugs.launchpad.net/dusttheme
<jianfei> if i can replicate i will post
<jianfei> NP
<jianfei> usually happens when someone leaves a msg on skype or amsn
<jianfei> and the icon animates
<jianfei> perhaps its the intel GFX
<jianfei> always a suspect
<gaminggeek> jianfei: hey there
<jianfei> hey gg
<rsc--> yeah maybe.
<jianfei> rsc: im testing on compaq laptops...nx6120 and nx6130
<jianfei> i can also test on asus fj3's
<jianfei> lol seems the aging nx6120 is better suited than the nx6130
<jianfei> gg: got dust working perfectly on the 6130...even with the compiz script
<shaney101> hello i need help with usplash
<gaminggeek> jianfei: thats cool
<jianfei> its works perfect on the nx6120 without updates ibex clean and no icon animation issues
<jianfei> i can do a install on asus fj3...it has a nvidia card
<gaminggeek> sweet :)
<jianfei> havent fired her up in a while..i think its a 6800
<gaminggeek> its best to test where you can :)
<jianfei> gg: yeh agree
<gaminggeek> rsc--: why dont your like your own background?
<jianfei> also got an acer extensa will try tomorrow with dust
<jianfei> i think its 5120 or something...and also a dell vostro
<rsc--> gaminggeek, it's an unfortunately watered-down version of the original
<gaminggeek> I think the main thing with dust is not hardware because that is mostly handled by things out of thier hands but lots of apps :)
<jianfei> gg: agree
<rsc--> <rsc--> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_10_Has_a_Brand_New_Wallpaper
<rsc--> <rsc--> versus http://www.behance.net/Gallery/Intrepid-Ibex/13289
<shaney101> hello i need help with usplash
<jianfei> rsc: yeh its nice
<gaminggeek>  http://www.behance.net/Gallery/Intrepid-Ibex/13289 is a 404
<shaney101> i tried to change splash screen
<jianfei> and then?
<shaney101> but now all i see is a cursor blinking
<rsc--> meh
<jianfei> shaney: cant u turn it all off by removing splash?
<rsc--> http://www.behance.net/Gallery/Intrepid-Ibex/132891 :)
<rsc--> forgot one char
<shaney101> its usplash
<shaney101> how to turn it off?
<jianfei> damn whats the boot file again?
<gaminggeek> rsc--: why did you get rid of that blue?
<gaminggeek> it made the brown in the ibex pop nicely..
<rsc--> ubuntu.
<rsc--> heh
<rsc--> *sigh*
<gaminggeek> :)
<rsc--> i'd say i went with the wrong direction from the start.
<jianfei> shaney: Youll have to remove 'quiet' and 'splash' fromt he boot options. You will ahve to edit /boot/gtub/menu.lst
<gaminggeek> so everything has to be brown?
<jianfei> sudo in
<gaminggeek> can't is just be that partsof it can be brown?
<gaminggeek> *it
<jianfei> shaney: sudo gedit /boot/gtub/menu.lst
<jianfei> grub
<gaminggeek> jeeze I need to start proof reading lines before I send them
<jianfei> sorry
<jianfei> well it worked for me
<jianfei> lol
<jianfei> shaney: sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst
<shaney101> its grub/menu.lst
<gaminggeek> rsc--: you managed to make the brown sexy in dust though :)
<shaney101> yes opened
<jianfei> remove splash
<jianfei> scroll down
<shaney101> grub splash?
<shaney101> thats fine
<jianfei> i removed quiet and splash from the end of the boot lines..i was left with a bare boot
<shaney101> i am having problem with usplash
<jianfei> u will need to replace after if u wanna see splash again
<jianfei> thats all i know
<jianfei> lol
<shaney101> # defoptions=quiet splash vga=788
<shaney101> should i remove things like thgis?
<jianfei> shaney: yeh remove quiet and splash
<jianfei> scroll down there could be a few
<jianfei> the goal here is to get u up and running right?
<shaney101> kernel		/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic root=UUID=58b1caa1-0a83-41cc-b520-aab8923e22f1 ro quiet splash vga=788
<shaney101> the whole line?
<jianfei> NO
<shaney101> then
<jianfei> quiet and splash
<jianfei> two words
<jianfei> pls dont do more
<jianfei> hehe
<shaney101> ok you mean wherever quite or splash is written i should remove that only
<jianfei> yes
<jianfei> then save
<jianfei> reboot
<shaney101> splashimage=(hd0,4)/boot/grub/splashimages/grub_buddha.xpm.gz
<jianfei> ignore
<shaney101> what about this type of line
<jianfei> just those 2 words
<gaminggeek> I wish they had a widescreen version of the usplash...
<gaminggeek> I dont even have a 4:3 display on ether of my computers
<jianfei> hope it helps
<jianfei> lol
<jianfei> damnit i should have said they were at the end of every line
<jianfei> in the boot file
<jianfei> did it work?
<shaney101> back after rebooting :)
<shaney101> now i dont even see a cursor blinking
<shaney101> :)
<jianfei> good
<jianfei> lol
<shaney101> a black screen
<shaney101> yes what next
<jianfei> did u remove all splash? it was not supposed to be....just at the end of every boot command
<shaney101> yes i did
<jianfei> u did what?
<shaney101> i searched every word called quiet and splash
<jianfei> no!
<shaney101> and then erased it
<jianfei> lol
<shaney101> shit!
<jianfei> nevermind...
<jianfei> just fix it
<shaney101> lol
<shaney101> ok
<shaney101> can i mail u my .lst file?
<jianfei> yep
<jianfei> daniel.gluer@gmail.com
<jianfei> i'll fix it
<jianfei> waiting
<jianfei> so anyway..does the dust theme have a login screen?
<rsc--> no.
<rsc--> not at thsi point
<jianfei> rsc: it should..im trying to match the theme with one
<shaney101> sent
<jianfei> shaney: where was it located?
<shaney101> sorry i keep getting disconnected
<shaney101> irc is blocked in my college :(
<gaminggeek> jianfei: I have just set it to log in to my user by default seeing as I'm the only user
<shaney101> it was in /boot/grub
<jianfei> shaney101: you have left spaces otherwise yours completely matches my boot.lst
<shaney101> ok so?
<jianfei> waity
<shaney101> jianfei fix it and mail it back
<jianfei> cant help u...lol...looks identical..
<shaney101> ?? try
<jianfei> apologies mate
<jianfei> im happy to email u mine
<shaney101> spaces? will they help?
<jianfei> no
<shaney101> ok send me ur's
<shaney101> but my version is 8.10
<shaney101> any prob?
<jianfei> im searching...
<jianfei> where is it,,,?
<jianfei> im fucking working on 2008 servers
<jianfei> lol
<shaney101> ohh
<jianfei> WHERE IS IT?
<shaney101> what?
<jianfei> the location of boot.lst
<jianfei> last chance
<jianfei> where?
<jianfei> i am happy to give you mine
<jianfei> 8.10
<jianfei> l0ol
<jianfei> where?
<shaney101> its in "/boot/grub/menu.lst"
<jianfei> thank you
<jianfei> im not a linux guru
<jianfei> yet im attempting to help
<shaney101> guru :D
<jianfei> will email u on the same address
<shaney101> yes
<shaney101> done?
<mib_d0myt6> ?
<jianfei> shaney: ok
<jianfei> done
<shaney102> got
<jianfei> k.
<shaney102> thanks
<jianfei> if it fails
<jianfei> dont blame me
<jianfei> its a clean install
<jianfei> shaney: btw i get paid 200k to do something else....so no offence i got to get back to it..\
<shaney102> k bye
<jianfei> Q: how can u replace a boot.lst file with anothers?? lol
<shaney101> hey it failed
<shaney101> cant even boot in my pc
<jianfei> no shit
<shaney101> error 17:
<jianfei> i never said replace the boot.lst .. i meant to copy parts of it
<jianfei> lol
<shaney101> oops
<shaney101> i think i must get my live cd back now
<jianfei> good fortune
<jianfei> - -
<shaney101> ~_~
<jianfei> shaney: pls dont be so rude next time...i was trying to help you
<shaney101> hey chill
<shaney101> its my stupidity
<jianfei> is it?
<jianfei> hehehe
<shaney101> not exactly
<shaney101> you should have been explained properly
<jianfei> yes
<shaney101> anyways othr pc is booting now
<jianfei> its all my fault
<shaney101> can i access those files from live cd
<jianfei> of course
<jianfei> i really tried to help you
<jianfei> im sorry it failed
<shaney101> hey i opened it
<shaney101> "/boot/grub but its blank
<jianfei> perhaps u didnt save it?
<jianfei> u have a backup?
<shaney101> opening my email
<shaney101> from live cd
<jianfei> so anyway my point is...how can we release any themes like this? the end user cant go back to dos commands...we are trying to assist..yet the result?
<jianfei> we need to concentrate on translucency, compiz cuts it...yet it does not..
<jianfei> we are close
<jianfei> very
<jianfei> majority of people wont accept a theme such as dust
<jianfei> its a tough one
<jianfei> in this debate...no one is liked
<jianfei> it is survival
<jianfei> gui wars
<jianfei> compiz raised a lot of eyebrows
<jianfei> yet made no one blink
<jianfei> the real question is...........why didnt they blink?
<karmaferit> because its hacky
<jianfei> perhaps
<karmaferit> compiz is a hack ontop of the os, people want things to be seemless
<jianfei> true...pple want seemless
<karmaferit> and thats where ubuntu fails
<jianfei> not by much
<jianfei> yet it does
<karmaferit> theres not enough qualified people nitpicking at the look and feel of it all
<jianfei> i mean i can tweak my ubuntu as much as i want...yet i still seek something more...the thing i seek is what ubuntu should deliver
<jianfei> guess what that is?
<karmaferit> take gnome for example, after the transition to 2.xx we went into good enough mode, ubuntu's fallen into this trap for the user experience, its focus is on getting linux installed
<jianfei> popularity........
<jianfei> i need to know the OS i use....is popular
<jianfei> dont we all have to quit being...so self centred by our OS of choice...??
<jianfei> how do u make it popular?
<jianfei> its just a sales issue
<jianfei> yet ubuntu is free
<jianfei> better wallpapers?
<jianfei> no
<jianfei> a seemless intergration of wine..that supports the latest office and adobe..
<jianfei> so pple wont even notice the underlying OS
<jianfei> ubuntu...unoticed
<jianfei> hehe
<karmaferit> choice is the issue, people don't want it, it complicates life
<jianfei> true
<karmaferit> a geek sure wants choice, options are fun
<jianfei> yet if they didnt have time to think about the OS that delivers the packages they are used to...
<jianfei> hmmm
<karmaferit> ever had a chance to speak with troy, your musing seems similar.
<jianfei> karma: im used to all things gui...
<jianfei> just for a moment think about it...a gui unnoticed
<jianfei> the end user doest care
<jianfei> just wants the apps delivered
<jianfei> and they have a right to have them delivered
<jianfei> the end user as fussy as they are.....deserve reassurance
<jianfei> not through compiz...through software compatibilty
<jianfei> OS acceptance has already begun
<jianfei> if im to use openoffice 2.4 why should i be able to use beta 3?
<jianfei> shouldnt
<jianfei> hehe
<jianfei> should the end user really have the choice between gnome or kde?
<jianfei> if yes..why?
<BHSPitLappy> Am I the only one who sees the new wallpaper as something other than an Ibex?
<BHSPitLappy> Like, the bloodied imprint of an undead's face against a basement wall?
<karmaferit> jianfei: choice is the bane of the end user
<karmaferit> BHSPitLappy: its better than the dots, but ubuntu's not the distro if you want a coherent look and feel
<BHSPitLappy> hear hear
<BHSPitLappy> I just think it borders toward "scary"
<jianfei> karmaferit: http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intrepiddustym5.jpg i think that looks quite nice...yet what is the audience thinking?
<thorwil> BHSPitLappy: i think you are the first to notice. it's surely a hint that ubuntu is actually made by enslaved undead chained into a cave
<BHSPitLappy> thorwil, so my suspicions are confirmed then.
<jianfei> karma: they want to see that desktop filled with MS OFFICE ADOBE CS3
<karmaferit> jianfei: they're thinking, where do i start, theres no focus for ones eyes
<jianfei> am i false?
<BHSPitLappy> jianfei, is that just a long exposure shot, or is it mixed media?
<BHSPitLappy> water looks neat
<karmaferit> knowledgeable users you're not, average users who don't know the differences yes
<BHSPitLappy> but yeah, it's a photograph not a wallpaper
<jianfei> BHSPitLappy: www.interfacelift.com
<karmaferit> a average new person when shown that, isn't going to know where to focus
<karmaferit> since focus is always in the center
<karmaferit> then by training during childhood( reading) top left corner
<jianfei> karmaferit: you see..someone goes 'wow' then wonders where the apps are
<BHSPitLappy> jianfei, yeah, I thought it might be HDR
<jianfei> BHSP: it is
<jianfei> karma: perhaps all customers are somewhat required to be stimulated by a OS
<karmaferit> or presented with what they need with the least ammount of work
<jianfei> karma: after the eyecandy...comes the icons...of familiar things MSOFFICE and yes CS3
<karmaferit> http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=ubuntu_810_alpha1&image=ubuntu_810a1_screen the average, it doesn't present anything to you
<karmaferit> http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/empty/macosx102.png average mac desktop, all the apps you need/want on the bar
<jianfei> besides Adobe PDF.. a few plugins later..such as amsn ...what else do they really want?
<jianfei> if we are targeting gui the real gui...then we need to plan properly
<jianfei> visual gui seemless integration
<karmaferit> the other big issue is that the people doing things here there arn't all using the same desktop, case in point the ubuntu websites navigation buttons, during the release of ubuntu that featured firefox 3( GTK integration for navigation buttons) swapped to custom images for the navigation buttons
<karmaferit> now why not just leave them as they were so that ubuntu's default web browser could theme them
<jianfei> karmaferit: coz in the end...they dont really care
<karmaferit> which is why they won't be the end of apple
<jianfei> karmaferit: i hated adjusting as well...
<jianfei> karmaferit: i was happy with novell
<jianfei> lol
<jianfei> btw...where is the Deb..of Novell Client?
<jianfei> lol
<jianfei> fanised
<karmaferit> :P
<jianfei> :-)
<karmaferit> i rather liked suse's enterprise desktop
<karmaferit> 10
<karmaferit> it was rather nice to see what could happen
<jianfei> karma: u remember Novell though?
<jianfei> hehe
<karmaferit> before my time i must say :P
<jianfei> its gone
<jianfei> now
<jianfei> hehehe
<jianfei> bugger
<jianfei> but the gui thing is different
<jianfei> im not here for show and tell...nor do i have the right to...
<jianfei> yet the gui issue is no longer an issue...compiz sorted that out...
<thorwil> jianfei: what _are_ your here for?
<jianfei> open minded discussion
<jianfei> thorwil: if u dont like my input im happy to leave...
<thorwil> jianfei: nah, i don't own this channel
<jianfei> me either...but i am raising serious questions here...god knows why i care...lol
<jianfei> my civilian job is to teach students
<thorwil> jianfei: i just started to wonder if you would switch to at least thinking about what you could do to improve things
<jianfei> everyday i hear parents mention microsoft.......
<thorwil> as with all due respect, we have oceans full of open minded discussion that didn't change a thing
<jianfei> alright from an educational point of view.....make the OS seem transparent
<jianfei> then deliver the industry standard applications on a OS that the targeted audience doesnt even think about
<thorwil> jianfei: if you get to apoint where it doesn't matter if it's windows or ubuntu beneath th software, ubuntu and free software will have lost
<jianfei> thorwil: incorrect in my opinion...it will have won
<jianfei> transparency
<jianfei> a student will not have to think
<jianfei> it will come down to hardware cost
<jianfei> not software
<jianfei> thorwil: they wont care
<thorwil> jianfei: if all you care about is delivering proprietary applications, you lose all advantages of software freedom
<jianfei> perhaps..yet which target audience are we focusing on?
<jianfei> btw i dont deserve to be booted off a channel..
<thorwil> jianfei: huh?
<jianfei> thorwil..
<jianfei> i was booted
<thorwil> jianfei: nobody kicked you, it was: * jianfei has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<Flannel> jianfei: No, you disconnected
<jianfei> i felt my opinions were quite vaild
<jianfei> arent we supposed to shape the future of OS?
<jianfei> hehehe
<thorwil> jianfei: it is true that there are a lot of users out there that we can hardly win without letting them have there precious adobe suite and maybe MS office
<jianfei>  thorwil: and if we attract those...
<thorwil> jianfei: but you have to wonder why free softeware developers should invest their time and skill to serve the wishes of people who are ignorant about the very foundation of free software
<thorwil> jianfei: also, if a user doesn't need to care if he's using ubuntu or windows, that's very bad for marketing. also means a lack of incentive for other to develop for linux
<jianfei> thorwil: yet these are our unloyal customers...they are the 'numbers'
<thorwil> jianfei: many say this is what killed os/2
<jianfei> thorwil: we have to forget that
<jianfei> thorwil: focus on the future
<jianfei> otherwise we will be in endless blogs of argument
<jianfei> thorwil: brb wife calls
<jianfei> - -
<thorwil> jianfei: yeah, i also implied that mere words will not change a thing
<thorwil> s/also/already/
<jianfei> thorwil: true... yet i have to order a pizza for my wife...im here but in spirit
<jianfei> lol
<jianfei> btw: the interpid gui is perfect
<jianfei> intrepid
<thorwil> perfect? by what kind of requirements / or in which context?
<jianfei> thorwil: http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intrepiddustym5.jpg
<thorwil> jianfei: that surely is not what users of intrepid will see
<jianfei> thorwil: only took 15 mins
<jianfei> hehehe
<jianfei> thorwil: ok ..the pizza is ordered..
<jianfei> thorwil: dont get me wrong..im questioning the gui and the effects it will have on the customers...ive noticed yes it will assist..yet in the end they expect results
<jianfei> no matter what the age
<jianfei> do u realise how difficult it will be to turn parents from msoffice to openoffice?
<gaminggeek> it all depends how computer savy they areeeeeee
<gaminggeek> woa sorry about the eeeee overload
<jianfei> they all realise its free..yet how do u change their mindset
<gaminggeek> just install it :)
<thorwil> jianfei: yes, i'm familiar with users who don't actually understand a thing and work strictly schematic, if that's what you mean
<gaminggeek> say its office 2009
<jianfei> thats the problem im faced with every monday morning at at our board meetings
<karmaferit> it would help if openoffice was atleast intergrated fully with atleast 1 platform
<jianfei> it is a bugger of a thing
<jianfei> hehe
<karmaferit> its hacky
<jianfei> its so fixable..
<Hellow> lots of things are
<karmaferit> its not gnome GTK+ so it doesn't look 100% in gnome, its not aqua so its not 100% in OS X, and its even hacky on windows
<karmaferit> gnome's**
<karmaferit> if i were to recreate it i would whipe the UI and make a custom version for each platform
<gaminggeek> karmaferit: looks alright on vista
<karmaferit> Microsoft manages to do this with Office, it has a windows version and a totally different Mac os version
<thorwil> karmaferit: if you were to recreate it, you suddenly would have much more man hours to your disposal, then? ;)
<karmaferit> thorwil: im musing on a ideal world
<karmaferit> for the non-ideal i would follow firefox's lead, where they don't have native toolkit versions of the application but have intergration with each platform
<karmaferit> for GTK+ they use the icon theme from the desktop
<karmaferit> for all the other version they have separate themes custom made for the OS
<jianfei> karma: perhaps we can chat another time...i would like that..my wife now knows what im doing...'are u still on ubuntu'
<jianfei> lol
<_MMA_> Yo kids.
<thorwil> _MMA_: hi! right when i'm going to ride my bicycle
<yanndinendal> hi
<yanndinendal> do you know what happened to the new sounds that were in kwwii's ppa in august?
<yanndinendal> was this just a test
<yanndinendal> ?
<yanndinendal> I liked them but they are not here anymore
<rsc---> somethinglikethat
<kwwii> rsc---: hey man, did you get my emails?
<rsc---> yeah.
<rsc---> i dont think the feedback is very good about that wallpaper though.
<kwwii> rsc---: which feedback?
<kwwii> don't worry about what gets said on the forums...there are always people who complain
<rsc---> just what people say about it i mean
<rsc---> it looks weird, etc
<rsc---> :)
<_MMA_> Pfftt..
 * _MMA_ loves it. :)
 * kwwii too
<kwwii> rsc---: could you send me the original (no matter which format)...I would like to use the background image in gdm as well
<rsc---> original of?
<rsc---> i mean which original?
<_MMA_> rsc---: Damn. I can't find your Ibex wallpaper page. :(
<rsc---> its in the intrepid incoming folder.
<rsc---> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Earthenibex_wallpaper
<_MMA_> Muchos gracias
<kwwii> rsc---: we are using the cave3 pic you posted last week
<kwwii> so if you have an orig of that it would be great
<_MMA_> rsc---: Do you have the 2nd earthenibex image minus the text?
<rsc---> yep
<rsc---> sigh, i wonder why its not there.
<rsc---> lemme see if i can get it there too
<kwwii> good idea
<kwwii> :-)
 * kwwii cooks dinner for the family
<_MMA_> ok. The text doesnt work well if you set the view to "Zoom" to preserve the aspect. You might wanna move the text or make a 4:3 version if you want to retain the composition.
<tretle> Hi, Im using intrepid atm and saw this post - http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-8-10-Has-a-Brand-New-Wallpaper-95451.shtml  ... Is the alternate wallpaper going to be included too?
<_MMA_> rsc---: But man, this thing is gorgeous.
<rsc---> on a separate note, i think i just found the cause of my harddrive crash. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielHahler/Bug59695 :( :( :(
 * _MMA_ clicks
<_MMA_> rsc---: Oh wow. Ouch.
<thorwil> _MMA_: so, how are you doing?
<thorwil> rsc---: ouch?
<_MMA_> Ok. Not much to do here but work.
<_MMA_> But 60hr work weeks keep me pretty busy.
<thorwil> ic
<_MMA_> bbl
<rsc---> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Earthenibex_wallpaper should be there in a few minutes
<tretle> rsc--- so It will be included in final?
<rsc---> i have no say on that, tretle
<tretle> hopefully, I like the new one included but those two alternative ones would go better with newhuman
<tretle> couldnt be a matter of cd space as I heard they are sticking on a community created song and video on the disk, would prefer some more quality wallpapers myself :D
<thorwil> cd space seems to be a matter, always. the size restriction for the example content are pretty tough
<rsc---> on 2nd thought i'm not happy about the new wallpaper
<rsc---> lol
<thorwil> rsc---: are you one of those artists that tend to be never satisfied? :)
<rsc---> sort of, but it's beyond that.
<rsc---> http://www.behance.net/Gallery/Intrepid-Ibex/132891 this is how it was supposed to be -- not even a wallpaper, actually.
<rsc---> but making compromises to make it "wallpaper-able" and neutral was quite a half-baked effort
<tretle> hmmm..... in terms of content like video/music etc I would have prefered a dropbox like solution.. Was slightly surprized to see jonos post on the added song/video when the size of the cd has always been a major restriction when it came to the inclusion of more themes/wallpapers which are more relevant to ubuntu then adding a song/video.. I do like the idea though.
<rsc---> the end result is that it's not even recognizeable as an animal, looks dirty, etc
<thorwil> rsc---: your half-baked is more than many other attempts had to offer at all
<rsc---> but nonetheless half-baked.
<rsc---> the most ideal thing to do was to actually create a wallpaper with the vision of being a neutral wallpaper
<rsc---> but instead, it was just an image shoehorned into a wallpaper as a silhouette
<tretle> rsc - did you make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Earthenibex_wallpaper?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=earthenibex-full-text.png ?
<thorwil> rsc---: there's a high risk of creating something stale if you aim at neutral too hard
<thorwil> rsc---: anyway, might become time for you to move on
<rsc---> tretle, everything on that wiki page, yes
<rsc---> and the url i posted earlier
<rsc---> thorwil, move on?
<tretle> I hope some of the more sharp variations make it in
<thorwil> rsc---: yes, as in leaving that ibex for good
<tretle> would have stopped using computers all together if this made it as default - http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-files/91122-Magic_X.jpg lol
<thorwil> wow!
<tretle> :)
<thorwil> but the artist should have made it glossy, somehow!!
<rsc---> yeah maybe
<rsc---> i got something good planne dto try out for jaunty :p
<thorwil> would be fun to have a seemingly serious animal wallpaper with the jackalope for beta releases
<rsc---> i gotta admit i love thsi idea http://he1z.deviantart.com/art/The-FWA-New-Day-99586296
<rsc---> thorwil: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3862/screenshot2ph5.jpg
<tretle> I don't think that aiming for something plane is the way to go, I think you did quite well with your ibex attempts, they weren't plane, they were original and they jumped out at you but not in a bad way. The colours were sharp and distinct and there was an imaginative use of textures and shapes.. The fact that it made it to softpedia was great but you should take pride that one of your works which is not included with intrepid(yet?) also made it on th
<tretle> e article
<rsc---> plane=plain?
<tretle> yup
<tretle> planne=plain?
<tretle> lol
<thorwil> rsc---: yes, that catches some of what we should have. allthough, for theming, there could be a conflict with making things look stable and reliable
<rsc---> of course not for theming.
<thorwil> rsc---: if that is yours, could you please add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Mood?
<thorwil> dinner time, bbl
<rsc---> ill see.
<rsc---> and yes its ine
<rsc---> *mine
<tretle> rsc--- you are he1z then?
<rsc---> no
<rsc---> oops
<rsc---> i meant http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3862/screenshot2ph5.jpg is mine
<tretle> ooh.. Must of missed that link, nice :D
 * rsc--- wishes the new macbook will be compatible with Intrepid.
<rsc---> ah shit nevermind, it doesn't come in 17" so i'm not buying one. :P
<tretle> the one with nvidia chipset?
<tretle> I like there new wireless keyboards, maily because of the absence of a windows/apple logo in favor for the word command
<rsc---> oh no.
<rsc---> apple's wireless keyboard.
<tretle> ?
<rsc---> aside from being ridiculously expensive, the bottom-leftmost key is the fn key
<rsc---> (facepalm)
<rsc---> I'd like it as ctrl thank you
<rsc---> also, no pgup/pgdn.
<rsc---> sucks being too reliant on ctrl/alt/super like I am. I get picky with keyboards
<tretle> I never use pgup or pgdown so wouldnt mind, what annoys me about the apple keybaord I am using right now is the absence of a # symbol on the keyboard, annoying for so many things
<rsc---> I use it when coding.
<rsc---> and i edit a lot of 900-line CSS files
<rsc---> which makes pgup/dn quite indispensable for me
<rsc---> #? how about shift+3?
<tretle> try no having a # symbol when coding
<tretle> that would be the pound symbol which is pretty useless becaus ein ireland we use euros
<rsc---> oh.
<rsc---> nothing keyboard mapping or xmodmap couldn't fix, im sure
<tretle> indeed but still annoying not having a physical marker as to where the # symbol is
<rsc---> oh, well. sharpie? haha
<tretle> and for some odd reason I have found myself freaking out at the fact keyboards are sold with that stupid windows logo, I havent used windows on my system for a long long time and I dont think hardware should be branded with there logo
<tretle> I brame the absence of windows logo on netbooks for my new found insanity
<tretle> :D lol
<thorwil> plop
<_MMA_> flush
 * thorwil looks into Sebastian's aliasing issue
 * thorwil likely knows the answer
<_MMA_> thorwil: So what's your feeling on this optical drive if his? (anyone else feel free to chime in)
<_MMA_> s/if/of
<thorwil> _MMA_: i like the firts, but not the second. if he would fix the right side of the tray, i would be for including it
 * _MMA_ brings up the current images.
<thorwil> well, ok, small sizes need some work, too
<thorwil> _MMA_: he seems to have a quite good feel for shading and reasonably good perspective. but he has a tendency to mess up left/right symmetry
<_MMA_> Yeah. I see issue on the right. Odd how he missed that.
<thorwil> whereas i have to fight my damn tendency to end up with a gray mess :)
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> I am also for using the 1st.
<thorwil> _MMA_: a mail from you asking for that fix might motivate him. i do not want to modify his work if it's not necessary
<kwwii> re
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. I'll read over things and shoot of n email.
 * thorwil edits Means to Express the Message
<Cimi> kwwii, update murrine
<Cimi> and remember to add firefox support for rounded gtkentry
<kwwii> Cimi: right, those changes should go in tomorrow sometime (or possibly later if it takes a while to get it included)
<coz_> is troys  gone for good or just temporarily?
<_MMA_> For good last I heard.
<coz_> oh man thats a shame
<thorwil> the revolution will happen with or without him. or it will not happen :)
<coz_> true
<BHSPitLappy> and it won't be televised I hear
<BHSPitLappy> much to the dismay of our audience at home
<thorwil> _MMA_: i think this is for you: http://www.monkeyreview.co.uk/index.php/2008/10/09/i-introduce-the-kazookeylele-this-is-wha
 * _MMA_ clicks
<thorwil> aww, seems he didn't like it
<BHSPitLappy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw8sNoodIDk
<BHSPitLappy> way better
<thorwil> in making the dog angry
<BHSPitLappy> thorwil, watch it
<jianfei> the russians are planning a attak
<BHSPitLappy> thanks for the heads-up
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-05
<knome> hey! is there any way to make the handling of dual monitors in gdm better? one image streched to fill two monitors doesn't exactly look good...
<zniavre> http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2623/captureyf.png  > there is a way to seperate the both treeview rule for sidepanel en regular treeview ?
<zniavre> Hello / Bonjour  sorry)
<zniavre> en > and *
<mac_v> thorwil: hi... i cant seem to find your scrollbar idea url... could you link me? i'm thinking of asking Software center to use that idea :)
<thorwil> mac_v: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/popup-scrollbar-concept-demo/
<mac_v> thorwil: awesome .. thanks :)
<mac_v> thorwil: folks seem to love it! damn, i didnt get this idea earlier :/   since its late for Karmic... they might consider it for a future version
<zniavre_> that s true it's nice
<thorwil> mac_v: so far it were never the right people who love it. as in: those who could make it happen ;)
<zniavre_> :o)
<mac_v> thorwil: hehe , yeah... mvo the main maintainer likes it... just need to now convince mpt as soon as i find him ;)
<thorwil> btw, if someone here feels like having fun with python, there's a still incomplete demo script ...
<thorwil> mac_v: mpt is among the skeptics. i think you would not do that anyway, but to be sure: don't even think of calling it intuitive ;)
<mac_v> lol
 * thorwil received some real money via paypal and now his account is frozen :/
<mac_v> argh! lucid is going to be LTS , so it would be even harder to convince mpt :/ since he's already a skeptic...
<mac_v> i thought we could use software center as a testing ground to push this idea into gnome3
<thorwil> mac_v: try it. you could suggest that they do user testing at canonical ... :)
<mac_v> thorwil: yeah... i'll find the right time and pick on mpt ;p ... already there are a few suggestions to improve it , i think making it better and then presenting it would be ideal
<mac_v> ex: <Amaranth> Then just fix it up to implement the current scrollbar API perfectly, be accessible, and implement a couple of the changes mentioned in the bug report (single click jumps a page, don't make the arrows disappear if you move your mouse off the scrollbar for a second)
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> I am looking for some help re-designing a logo, not entirely sure this is the best place to ask, feel free to point me in another direction if not.
<thorwil> mac_v: except for "implementing the API", almost done. but it got a bit of a mess when i added a horizontal version
<mac_v> thorwil: then you should update the video too , with the current version
<AlanBell> The logo is for the http://nakedcomputers.org site which promotes vendors who will sell a computer without an operating system, a contribution towards a fix for bug 1
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)
<AlanBell> the current logo is a rotated 3 on a keycap. In the right light this kind of resembles a bottom, which is a bit cheeky
<AlanBell> that is fine, however some people look at it and see boobs, which is not gender neutral and causes offense
<AlanBell> any tips on how to make it not offensive, or any suggestions for a total redesign would be appreciated
<mac_v> AlanBell: why did you use 3 in the logo?
<AlanBell> mac_v: because I can't draw, and it is a mash up of free as in freedom elements
<thorwil> mac_v: because it looks like ass! ^^
<AlanBell> 3 because it is the glyph from a free font that looked most like a bottom to me
<AlanBell> the FAQ states "It is the bottom half of a 3 from the DejaVu Sans font rotated 90 degrees and mirrored. This is then placed on a keycap image from the Nuvola icon set designed by David Vignoni. Anything you see other than a rotated 3 is all in your head."
<mac_v> lol ;)
<thorwil> AlanBell: you could try to express that it's about having just the "core" without addition
<thorwil> or actually: an empty shell
<AlanBell> thorwil: ok, good sugestion, but there are problems with going in an apple direction in this context
<AlanBell> empty shell is interesting
 * AlanBell keeps chickens
<AlanBell> it might be a bit negative though. I want to promote naked computers as a good thing, an empty shell doesn't sound like a positive image, but there might be a way to do it
<thorwil> something ridiculously simple like a filled circle with a dotted outline around it might work
<AlanBell> I like ridiculously simple
<thorwil> or something bowl-like http://www.der-feine-tisch.de/images/Bowl.jpg
<mac_v> AlanBell: out of the concept a bit > hmm... peace symbol or the olive branch ?
<mac_v> in the key
<mac_v> AlanBell: or we could just make the color version of the bottom ;)
<AlanBell> we were working on a new theme for it and tried to modify the existing logo a bit, but it looks rubbish
<AlanBell> http://lordies.co.uk/naked/
<thorwil> a fig leave? http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/17540.jpg
<AlanBell> mac_v: interesting thought. Using color could make it more bottomish and less boobish?
<mac_v> yup
<AlanBell> thorwil: lol
<thorwil> i don't think you can use color for bottom/boob differentiation ... excpet if you start to add some blue veins :)
<mac_v> AlanBell: that way , it wont be confused as boobs and you dont have to change your logo a lot
<thorwil> i think you should stay away from body parts
<mac_v> thorwil: if we extend the bottom a bit above to include the back?
<mac_v> so it becomes clearer as a bottom
<mac_v> upto the small of the back
<mac_v> http://img2.photographersdirect.com/img/19309/wm/pd2128909.jpg
<AlanBell> maybe some kind of abstract line drawing representation of that sort of pose would work
<AlanBell> don't think I have the skills to do that though
<thorwil> i have but i don't think it's appropriate at all
<AlanBell> it gets a bit too explicit really
<AlanBell> I kind of like the way the current one is quite abstract and just points the mind in a direction
<AlanBell> just too many minds went in an unexpected direction
<mac_v> lol ,
<AlanBell> who would have thought that bums and boobs could look so similar!
<mac_v> AlanBell: then you can just modify this icon a bit  http://lordies.co.uk/naked/ to add the small of the back
<AlanBell> mac_v: just tried that. Turns out looking like another unfortunate body part :-(
<mac_v> AlanBell: do you have the icon ? i could give it a shot ;)
 * mac_v brb
<thorwil> AlanBell: not sure what to think of it myself: http://xs344.xs.to/xs344/09411/naked_computers409.png
<AlanBell> http://nakedcomputers.org/bums.svg is our attempted new logo, the bits for the existing one I don't have as svg, it was just done in the gimp
<AlanBell> thorwil: hmm, quite abstract
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> re
<dashua> zniavre, Pull again when you have some time.  Many fixes, just not Firefox yet =/
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26568/screenshot_007_51pJF6.png
<dashua> zniavre, The only fix for Firefox seems to have a dark menu_bg
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26574/screenshot_lQik0J.png
<zniavre__> dashua, http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5833/captureee.png
<dashua> zniavre, Damn.  Alright.  I'll have to tweak it just a bit more.  Thx.
<zniavre__> it make more yellow but it's a workaround
<zniavre__> i saw also in gdm an issue with font color and button on the gdmbar in the bottom
<zniavre__> i hav to reinstall a vbox karmic to screenshot gdm
<zniavre__> dashua,  maybe do you know the way to do the progressbar yellow ?
<zniavre__> dashua buttons also in the new ubuntu store are wrong
<mac_v> kwwii: mat_t: Bug #443163
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443163 in human-theme "Replace computer with white Ubuntu logo on GDM screen" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443163
<mat_t> mac_v: yeah, already in the works
<mac_v> \o/
<tgpraveen> mac_v: why should their be anything at all? in the mockups with no image it looks beautiful
<tgpraveen> + the white ubuntu logo is already used in the
<tgpraveen> bootup
<mac_v> tgpraveen: huh?
<tgpraveen> so using it again ...
<tgpraveen> about ^^  Bug #443163
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443163 in human-theme "Replace computer with white Ubuntu logo on GDM screen" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443163
<mac_v> tgpraveen: pls read my comment again ;)
<tgpraveen> k. 1 sec
<mac_v> tgpraveen: i'v also said to *not* use the icon as in the mockups
<mac_v> tgpraveen: BTW,  you could have invalidated the -UNR and -Dark bugs :/
<tgpraveen> oh i hadnt reead the report when i said that good that all of us agree ;)
<tgpraveen> :)
<tgpraveen> mac_v: oh invalidate i though u did that when u talked to me about that
<tgpraveen> lemme do it now
<mac_v> tgpraveen: too late ;p
<mac_v> tgpraveen: waited half hr for you to do it ;p
<tgpraveen> mac_v: ok.good work. will keep in mind in future
<zniavre__> dashua can i keep your theme ? i m starting to like the color schemas
<SiDi> kwwii: if you open firefox, type w/e in the url bar, there'll be a menu popping up with some suggestions from your history, made of entries consisting of a name in @text_color and an uri in blue
<SiDi> if you wanna customize that blue (actually the one of default links on the web), you can via GtkWidget::link-color = "#foo"
<Abooood> hey guys, I am a fan of windows style but ubuntu ( linux) lover so any ideas?
<Viper550_> that x-based splash = awsum
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-06
<dashua> zniavre, Ofc.  Let's develop it together.
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> following on from the http://nakedcomputers.org logo discussion yesterday I was thinking about drawing in the rest of the body, I sketched it out by hand with a mouse (i.e. rubbish) but I would like to know what you think of the idea
<AlanBell> http://nakedcomputers.org/nc.png
<AlanBell> it would be smaller and drawn as a vector in inkscape or something
<zniavre_> some apps are so tricky to theme
<thorwil> so i added a 2nd user account to test something. switched to that user, logged out there. got a grey screen, no login box. switched to the console to find that sudo was no longer allowed for my main account
<thorwil> hard reboot. system doesn't boot because groups are messed up
<thorwil> booted to old install to see that my /etc/group consisted of only 3 entries
<thorwil> restored it from a backup
<thorwil> can boot into current system again. had no network access due something about permissions still being wrong. somehow hacked that to work
<thorwil> saw there is a bug report for story similar to mine. devs wanted to close it due to being unable to reproduce
<thorwil> makes me wonder if i should switch distro
<AlanBell> thorwil: this doesn't seem to be the best channel for that
<AlanBell> is it a karmic issue? if so #ubuntu+1 would be the place
<thorwil> AlanBell: you should not tell a long-time resident in how far this is or isn't the right place. no, it's a jaunty issue, making it about 10 times worse ;)
<Cimi> sorry for the spam to the mailing lists and launchpad, I was victim of the attack
<kwwii> boy, today is going really well
 * kwwii is sick, Cimi's email was hacked, thorwil has major problems
<dashua> zniavre, Any progress w/ Firefox and those few oddities?
<zniavre> dashua not at all
<AlanBell> thorwil: sorry, just trying to help you get a better answer to the problem
<thorwil> AlanBell: np
<tux> something is scheduled for the stable , the 29?
<tux> some change from the beta?
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<kwwii> anyone have any idea which icons are used in gdm? I mean, exact names, not a description
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-07
<darkham> how many changes until october 29?
<zniavre> a et les options de nautilus sont revenues
<zniavre> oops sorry wrong chanel
<zniavre> channel *
<kwwii> hrm, so if anyone wants something to do, look into gdm
<kwwii> I cannot figure out why the cancel button is so much bigger than the login button
<kwwii> mac_v: hey, do you know when the last package upload for humanity was?
<kwwii> mac_v: ie, I need to know which changes in bzr have gone in and which not
<mac_v> kwwii: yesterday... for some reason the mail is sent to the ML , wasnt received :/
<kwwii> ;(
<mac_v> kwwii: which changes do you mean ?
<kwwii> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementaryart/humanity/Humanity/revision/396 is the last?
<mac_v> kwwii: 395 is the last , lool didnt include edit 392 :/
<mac_v> he cherry picked that one out... it was a very minor edit , i dont know why he did that
<kwwii> wierd
<kwwii> there were just some questions about the remaining missing icons, etc
<kwwii> there is something missing in the installer
<kwwii> mac_v: apparently the accessibility icon in the installer is showing the guy in the wheelchair
<mac_v> kwwii: huh? from where i dont think there is an icon for wheelchair in humanity
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, that is what I meant...if so, it is falling back to gnome
<mac_v> kwwii: i think the icon didnt not make it into beta cd
<mac_v> humanity accessibility icon*
<kwwii> mac_v: that would make sense
<kwwii> thnx
<mac_v> np :)
<dashua> zniavre, There is really no other workaround for Firefox as it takes the menu_bg for the menubar_bg and screws up the text.  Theme works fine with dark menus, just not the yellow ones.
<dashua> At least one I know of without patching FF
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<zniavre> dashua http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7892/capturekh.png  > 3 bugs i m not able to solve
<zniavre> dashua,  my workaround for firefox is a new launcher > env GTK2_RC_FILES=/home/zniavre/.themes/zni3/gtk-2.0/gtkrc firefox -new-tab
<kwwii> zniavre: you should add that to the dark theme wiki page
<zniavre> add what ? a new bug ?
<dashua> zniavre, That is sexxy.  This color scheme is really growing on me.
<kwwii> zniavre: screenshot and info
<dashua> I should probably make a project so we can work on it as a team when I get some time.
<zniavre> in the screenshot firefox is using "regular" theme
<zniavre> at least the yellox/dark one
<zniavre> where is the dark theme wiki page please ?
<dashua> zniavre, Do you have latest gtkrc posted anywhere?
<tgpraveen> mac_v: so now in the GDM login , white ubuntu logo is shown? wasnt it decided to use no image like in the mockups?
<zniavre> the one im using right now?
<tgpraveen> is this going to be changed
<dashua> Yeah, with the latest fixes.
<zniavre> wait a min
<dashua> Ok
<zniavre> dropbox is not working well on karmic sorry
<dashua> I'd like to make it a project so we can track the bugs and progress.
<dashua> I think we have some potential here.
<dashua> Firefox seems to be an upstream issue
<dashua> Does it with New Wave as well
<zniavre> no
<SiDi> zniavre: workaround for what in firefox,
<SiDi> oh the buttons
<zniavre> to use it with good gtk theme when dark theme are crappy with menus or / and buttons
<SiDi> zniavre: i think the vbox and vlc ones are problems in Qt's gtk theme
<dashua> SiDi, Buttons and having a light menu_bg with dark menubar does not play well with the text color
<zniavre> SiDi,  tout a fait
<SiDi> yeah cause they use the menutextcolor for the menus, but the button bg ?
<SiDi> i'm having problems with firefox and thunderbird, bad XUL theming, too :]
<zniavre> :o)
<SiDi> i fixed one of them (ugly #00F links in awesome bar) with a GtkWidget::link-color = #xxxxxx
<SiDi> the other one still needs fixing
<zniavre> dashua,  http://dl.free.fr/lyJ7n4pJI
<dashua> zniavre, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26781/screenshot_009_3VDlWK.png
<dashua> New Wave same
<mac_v> tgpraveen: i dont know ... ask kwwii  ;)
<zniavre> i got also a bug with pygtk apps and progressbar in treeview
<dashua> I think I like this menu_bg better than the gradient pixmap
<tgpraveen> kwwii: so now in the GDM login , white ubuntu logo is shown? wasnt it decided to use no image like in the mockups?
<tgpraveen> is it going to be changed
<tgpraveen> mac_v: u got the bug # for that?
<tgpraveen> u had commented on it so u must be subscribed
<mac_v> !logs | tgpraveen:
<ubottu> tgpraveen:: Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<mac_v> tgpraveen: i dont remember the bug# ... you could check the logs ;)
 * mac_v reboots
<dashua> zniavre, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26786/screenshot_010_o35Nqj.png
<dashua> I get tabs right, just the menubar is screwed.
<zniavre> haha i forgot his one > im using globalmenu and tinybar for firefox
<zniavre> this*
<dashua> If we revert to a dark menu_bg all issues are resolved =/
<dashua> Lighter looks better though
<zniavre> with bg pixmap this bug exists too?
<dashua> Yep
<dashua> It's a FF bug
<zniavre> one more ...  ^^
<dashua> I wouldn't care, but now epiphany uses webkit and it's not so good
<zniavre> do you like the yellow touch i added every where ?
<dashua> I'm still undecided on the progressbars.
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26787/screenshot_8z3ZxS.png
<dashua> Combo entry was fixed in bzr
<mac_v> dashua: seems you have ditched breathe ;)
<dashua> mac_v, The panel icons are pulling me in =/
<zniavre> if you are speaking icons > do you know wich icon of vlc must be changed for systray and titlebar ?
<dashua> zniavre, Not sure
<zniavre> i modified so many icon and still does not work
<mac_v> zniavre: i would guess the the app icon..  which icons have you modified so far?
<dashua> I guess I could make it like Dust and hybrid it between dark and light to get these issues resolved.
<zniavre> mac_v from usr/share/pixmap and usr/sharevlc (all icons i hav found exept the one ".ico" )
<mac_v> zniavre: did you change the /usr/share/vlc/vlc128x128.png ?
<zniavre> yes
<mac_v> :(
<Viper550> I had an idea for Kubuntu's xsplash theme
<mac_v> Viper550: for lucid ? ;)
<Viper550> lucid?
<mac_v> lucid == ubuntu 10.04
<mac_v> or kubuntu 10.04
<Viper550> we already got one?
<Viper550> maybe rehash the KDE 4 splash screen design for it
<Viper550> but with like a flashing kubuntu logo and saying "Kubuntu 9.10" on it
<Viper550> good idea?
<SiDi> Xubuntu's xsplash is the best of all *buntus
<SiDi> isnt it MadsRH ? :D
<Viper550> what does it look like?
<SiDi> It looks like beauty.
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic
<Viper550> so is xsplash bitmap based?
<SiDi> its based on files, yeh
<knome> SiDi, actually it's based on the pink bunnies inside your monitor
<knome> SiDi, wth are files anyway?
<SiDi> files are fluo green octal mosquitos
<SiDi> in your computer
<SiDi> fixing your ramz, like kittenz
<SiDi> this is the return of the revenge of the come back of the pink binary birds, now featuring swimming mice !
<mac_v> SiDi: lol! you used MadsRH splash :)  what happened to mr_doob's ?
<SiDi> no idea =)
<Viper550> so does kubuntu karmic have a splash yet?
 * mac_v thinks SiDi is right for once about xubuntu's being better ;)
<mac_v> hmm , btw SiDi which are you guys using? sparkles or throbber?
<SiDi> Sparkles
<SiDi> Throbbler was something i just began to hack before knome and MadsRH decided to do some magic together in my back
<SiDi> i was busy petting kittens, and poof, it was there
<mac_v> yay knome  ;)
<knome> SiDi, ;)
 * mac_v doesnt like the throbber used in ubuntu , feels like ubuntu went through all the trouble of creating xsplash to finally use a throbber :/
<Viper550> so for artwork, are we gonna have some sort of consistant splash screen design?
<zniavre> dashua, fixed slab apps >http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2040/captureiu.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-08
<zniavre> hello/bonjour
<zniavre> dashua,  emesene hav the same bug than firefox   :o(
<zniavre> http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8904/capturea.png
<dashua> zniavre, :(
<dashua> Dark menu_bg seems to be the only workaround at this time.
<zniavre> yep
<zniavre> it will solve maybe the gdm
<dashua> I also discovered if the GDM theme uses murrine or clearlooks for treeview-header, the ugly dotted line is eliminated.
<zniavre> http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4506/capture1fh.png
<zniavre> http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9056/capturevk.png
<zniavre> check the combobox on bottom
<zniavre> at*
<dashua> Looks great
<zniavre> font are light on light
<zniavre> fonts*
<dashua> Yeah, that happens in the theme as well
<dashua> Need to fix it
<zniavre> i hav not find any apps with this behaviour
<zniavre> twf is displaying better
<dashua> It was doing it in nautilus as well
<dashua> Creating or renaming a folder
<zniavre> ha yes just for renaming here
<mac_v> kwwii: around? how is breathe making symlinks? the .links file only has a few links , is it using the icon-naming-utils during install ?
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26833/screenshot_001_m6PA60.png
<dashua> Tweaked up Hanso a bit
<dashua> zniavre, Do you how to get scrollbar_through in murrine trunk?
<dashua> Looking through the code and it appears its there, just not implemented like scale and progressbar
<zniavre> non i do not know
<kwwii> mac_v: the icon naming utils and the .links file
<mac_v> kwwii: so basically , if i want to add more symlinks , i just add them to the .links file ... what if i need to rename icons? will that break something?
<mac_v> also how do i use the icon-naming-utils locally?
<kwwii> mac_v: you can remove and rename files as you have done in the past
<kwwii> adding the links to the .links file will create the links when building the package
<kwwii> as will the icon naming utils
<kwwii> the icon naming utils includes an xml file with all the links it tries to make
<mac_v> kwwii: how do i run icon-naming-utils locally to test that it works?
<mac_v> works== creates correct symlinks
<kwwii> mac_v: I do not know how or if you can do that
<kwwii> mac_v: the only way I know to do it is to build the package
<kwwii> certainly there is a way to run it localy
<kwwii> I just don't know how
<mac_v> kwwii: ;) ... ok will check
<kwwii> it is just a perl script or such
<mac_v> kwwii: did you get the mail about the slideshow? was that what you were saying about the wheelchair?
<mac_v> s/saying/asking
<kwwii> mac_v: no, I did not see that
<kwwii> did you send it to a list?
<mac_v> kwwii: Bug #445102 , i sent it to your at ubuntu.com id
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445102 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu "[UserInterface Freeze Exception]Merge new content in middle of slideshow" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445102
<kwwii> mac_v: thanks for pointing that out, I get several hundred bug emails a day so I missed it
<mac_v> :) np
<zniavre> dashua,  http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6867/capturehx.png
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<zniavre> dashua, http://dl.free.fr/qDucHwptS   (nautilus renaming/insensitive menu / firefox menubar and notebook are fixed)
<zniavre> emesene still bugged :o(
<zniavre> i made a mix from your theme and this one http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/node/220
<picklesworth> Hi everyone! I have a question :)
<picklesworth> Since the Humanity icon set has a different distributor-logo icon, should I be shipping that one in the introduction slideshow? (Or is there a more official scalable icon I should really be using anyway?)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-09
<picklesworth> Eeek, I've gotta go. Oh well, bye :)
<zniavre> good morning
 * thorwil enters new areas: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_search.php?action=file&userID=4970236
<kwwii> thorwil: hehe, cool stuff
<thorwil> ty :)
<mac_v> thorwil: whats that for , btw?
<thorwil> mac_v: quite surprisingly for a site called istockphoto, it's stock art. a bit much on the specific side for stock, but they already have so many images, that it's hard to be generic but still unique
 * thorwil -> food
<mac_v> kwwii: quick question , do the notification icons[notification daemon , not notify-osd] use the fdo naming? or do they use the naming from the apps?
<kwwii> mac_v: the attempt was mixed but they really don't follow fdo naming
<kwwii> or the notification would not be in front
<kwwii> but when possible they follow it
<mac_v> kwwii: i'm trying to file a bug in notify-osd to use the translate notification used by the apps rather than forcing all ubuntu packages to carry patches .. we could do this for atleast the apps in the default install
<mac_v> s/to use the translate/to translate
<mac_v> that is why gpm still hasnt been patched , seb and pitti are reluctant
<kwwii> mac_v: ? slow done
<kwwii> let me understand ;)
<kwwii> down
<kwwii> mac_v: what do you mean by "translate notification"?
<mac_v> hehe , ;) , let me explain
<mac_v> kwwii: No upstream app will ever use notify-osd icon labels , since notify-osd is only ubuntu specific , so every ubuntu package will need a patch for this! , But it is not possible to patch all apps and carry patches just because Ubuntu has a new notification system.. Instead it will be simpler to make notify-osd to recognize the upstream names and  to convert these icon names to its own naming system [notify-osd icon names ]... this is a more
<mac_v>  ideal approach
<mac_v> right now , nm applet is patched , empathy is patched ,
<mac_v> im apps are all being patched  , but they all use a common icon name , why cant notify-osd just be smart ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: honestly, I have no opinion on this other than the fact that it works
<kwwii> mac_v: I think it would be very hard to have notify-osd change icon names and such
<zniavre_> hello / bonjour
<mac_v> kwwii: ;) ... well... ok , then you need to convince seb and pitti /asac to patch gpm
<zniavre_> what is this widget in The Gimp (zoom) please >http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8576/capturebp.png
<zniavre_> ?
<mac_v> kwwii: it still uses the gpm icons for notifications , and there has been no bug filed for a gpm patch ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, let's talk to them
<kwwii> mac_v: in any case, there should be a bug about this
<kwwii> mac_v: is the current problem with the battery icons in notify-osd caused because gpm uses the same names for that as in the apps?
<mac_v> kwwii: yup
<mac_v> mat_t: ^ i think you should file the bug ;)
<kwwii> mat_t: yeah, mac_v is right
<mac_v> kwwii: is the gpm icon supposed to exist in the gdm? the gdm uses the greyscale icon for the gdm instead of using mat_t's icons
<mac_v> i guess he hasnt done the icons yet for the gpm
<kwwii> mac_v: where does that appear in gdm?
<kwwii> ahhh, in the notification
<mac_v> kwwii: it shows up to the right of the accessibility icon , maybe i see it because i'm on a laptop
<kwwii> mac_v: I am on a laptop as well
<mac_v> hehe , ... hmm , so you have the icon as well?
<kwwii> yes, the notification shows a green battery
<kwwii> which is incorrect
<kwwii> I had this discussion a week or more ago
<kwwii> and thought it was fixed
<mac_v> kwwii: odd , for me the icon is the greyscale icon from humanity...
<kwwii> mac_v: hrm, it also appears in the panel
<kwwii> shit
<kwwii> do you know the name of the icon being displayed there?
<kwwii> mat_t: ^----^ we need an icon asap
<mac_v> kwwii: the gpm-* icons
<kwwii> fsck, I hate gdm
<kwwii> this new gdm is nothing but pain
<mac_v> lol , it's gonna be a pain doing those icons in white with glow ;)
<mac_v> mat_t: you need to do 15 more icons ;p
<mat_t> mac_v: don't worry about it now, for now the shutdown icon is more important - we have to make sure it gets in
<mac_v> mat_t: the panel shutdown icon is already in , it is just a bug from tedg's side ;)
<mat_t> cool, dude you rock
<mat_t> :)
<mat_t> thanks
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings/+bug/444766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444766 in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings "some text not visible in UNR default theme" [Medium,Confirmed]
<kwwii> anyone want to try fixing this?
<kwwii> it is a matter of fixing the definitions of color for those widgets
<dashua_> kwwii, Already fixed upstream :)
<kwwii> dashua_: sweeet!
<kwwii> dashua_: you rock
<kwwii> dashua_: are you coordinating getting this change included with anyone?
<kwwii> dashua_: or to put to better, can I help in any way ;)
<tgpraveen> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<dashua_> I'm marking the bug, but this fix is pushed to Dust and Hanso (community-themes) and should make it in.
<dashua_> Kido pushed to Dust and I pushed to Hanso, affects both
<dashua_> AndrewSB here?
<kwwii> dashua_: cool, if there is anything I can do to help get it in, just let me know
<kwwii> I've got special buttons on my computer for making devs do things
<dashua_> I think Andrew was making the changes to community-themes and gnome-themes-ubuntu
<dashua_> They should both be updated
<dashua_> :)
<kwwii> cool
<zniavre> re-hello >how is managed the bottom panel with gdm ?
<zniavre> the combobox does not follow the gtkrc rules
<zniavre> they are not combobox right ?
<kwwii> zniavre: not sure, haven't looked into it
<kwwii> zniavre: I can imagine it is a special widgets
<zniavre> i can too
<zniavre> there is a way to check it ?
<kwwii> check the code
<zniavre> mmmm  :o(       code lines are hieroglyphes for me
<zniavre> it could be that ?>http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/557/capture1v.png
<MisterKanister> Hi! I painted a Wallpaper what should I do with it?
<MisterKanister> (to make it accessible to the public)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> SiDi: found the wireless notify-osd icons you kept asking > they are in gnome-colors
<knome> mac_v, gnome-colors is mostly a ripoff theme :P
<mac_v> knome: i have *never* used it...! i dont know why they are so famous :( only now i downloaded it since i was asked something regarding them
<mac_v> knome: i think those notify-osd icons were first used by canonical , and then the gnome-colors guys have copied them
<knome> yeah, well, it is a theme that just combines many themes
<mac_v> kwwii: copyright ;)
<knome> mac_v, exactly.
<knome> mac_v, kwwii is probably going to have a heart attack or something for your comment
<mac_v> lol ;)
<knome> well i suppose that doesn't really matter, mark is going to kill him anyway
<thorwil> knome: who's going to be killed and why?
<mac_v> damn it.. mark just quit the irc... or we could have had a blood bath ;p
<knome> thorwil, kwwii for copyright issues
<SiDi> mac_v: err, which icons do you mean? may i have a screeny ? :P
<mac_v> SiDi: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/notification-network-wireless-high.svg
<SiDi> err, yeah, thats the notify-osd ones
<mac_v> found them in the gnome-dust ,and a couple of others
<mac_v> *all* the notification icons have been copied ...
<SiDi> ouch
<knome> lol
<knome> kwwii, you're a dead man
<mac_v> wow , they have a folder 'notifications' with all the canonical proprietary stuff
<thorwil> mac_v: what's the issue? stuffed that shouldn't have slipped out of canonical? or canonical icons resemble someone else's earlier work?
<SiDi> thorwil: kwwii published the icons in the human theme, and then was shout at because sabdfl wanted them to be under a proprietary license so that only ubuntu would have it, if i understood well
<mac_v> thorwil: icons dont resemble , they *are* canonical stuff... and these icons are allowed to be used only after sabdfl gives permissions to copy... which i dont think the gnome-colors guys asked for ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: and tbh they are from the earlier stuff canonical did , these didnt even make it to jaunty beta...
<mac_v> the wireless icons are older ones
<thorwil> SiDi, mac_v: ty
<kwwii> how am I a dead man? what did I do?
<kwwii> you just cannot copy the icons into another theme
<kwwii> so we added a theme with just them in it
<kwwii> which makes sense
<knome> kwwii, people have still copied the icons
<thorwil> some people are just ignorant of licensing
<knome> yep.
<kwwii> knome: then they might very well get a letter or email or such
<kwwii> if it is ever noticed
<knome> yup
<knome> kwwii, but be careful, the paper might be sharp and make a cut in your throat
<knome> ;)
<thorwil> why so bloodthirsty? :)
<kwwii> it's not my license anyway ;)
<kwwii> and I don't think this is meant to point fingers at the "normal guy"
<knome> thorwil, unwanted guests and i'm bunkering in the bedroom with two laptops
<thorwil> lol
<knome> and i'm hungry. and the only "food" is some stuff that smells worse than my dump on a hangover morning
<darkham> no changes until act. 29?
<mac_v> darkham: what changes?
<darkham> changes about artwork
<dashua> SiDi, Is the usplash mouse supposed to do anything other than fade?
<dashua> The particles on xsplash are pretty sweet :)
<SiDi> dashua: sometimes it eats cheese
<SiDi> dashua: actually, its not meant to do anything. knome did that mouse
<dashua> Ok cool
<dashua> Everything is working good other than my multimedia keys sporadically working
<dashua> I'm eating some cheese again ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-10
<dashua> kwwii, Any chance of deprecating Human-Clearlooks and renaming to Human-Legacy or something and base it on psyke83's original Humanity?
<nysosym> hi there
<nysosym> congrats for the new ubuntu design
<kwwii> dashua: not for this cycle, but very likely in the future
<nysosym> hi kwwii :)
<nysosym> what was the question from dashua?
 * ckontros waves
<darkham> some artwork change until the 29?
<nysosym> hi there, what was the reason to choose the dark xsplash and gdm theme?
<nysosym> i like this ones to..
<nysosym> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/27033/mrdoob_ubuntu910_boot08_03_t8gGuK.png
<nysosym> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/27032/mrdoob_ubuntu910_boot08_02_2UH3C5.png
<nysosym> this matches the default wallpaper much better
<ckontros> nysosym: kwwii might be able to tell you as he's the only one who works @ Canonical and this is a channel for community art.
<nysosym> a well, but is there an official art channel?
<ckontros> Not really. Mostly a closed team. Closest thing is #ubuntu-desktop. kwwii is the guy to talk to though. (but even he doesn't make the art decisions)
<nysosym> is there a new art director except mark himself?
<ckontros> nysosym: Mark still has final say. AFAIK. kiwwii will pop his head up soon. He's watchin' a basketball game.
<mac_v> ckontros: nysosym: AFAIK , it was mat working on the xsplash more than kwwii
<ckontros> mac_v: Sure. I was more commenting on who best to give direct answers.
<mac_v> yeah
<mac_v> nysosym: there was a thread on the artwork mailing list regarding the choice , but it was more because they wanted to more away from the color and use new shades
<mac_v> move away*
<nysosym> fine, but why still orange as default desktop?
<mac_v> nysosym: oh... the wallpaper?
<nysosym> jep
<mac_v>  guess, you cant take out the orange from Ubuntu easily ;p
<mac_v> nysosym: the main problem i believe is more, they want to change the default colors but havent yet decided which new color to choose
<ckontros> This is why I point people to kwwii. (no guessing)
<mac_v>  ;p
<mac_v> ckontros: give the man a rest ... we were all up his ass yesterday too ;0
 * ckontros tries to stop his imagination after that last comment.
<nysosym> lol
<mac_v> lol
<ckontros> mac_v: So which issues did you fix in Breathe? (i'm gonna build it now)
<mac_v> ckontros: didnt andrew sb just push a release?
<ckontros> Yeah. Don't know if it's in the archive yet.
<mac_v> ckontros: i fixed only the 3 bugs , i mentioned.. Add symlink for for nm-no-connection (LP: #429449),  drive-*-usb (LP: #253599), and media-flash-* (LP: #417294).   bug tracker finds it in the archives > breathe-icon-theme (0.51.1) karmic; urgency=low
<ckontros> mac_v: So it's an issue beyond us where I see a disconnected connection icon when I use a wired connection?
<mac_v> ckontros: i didnt understand? why is it beyond us? when the symlnk is added for no-connection that icon will be used when disconnected
<mac_v> when wireless is disconnected
<ckontros> Well, I have a connection. A "wired" one. What icon /should/ we see?
<mac_v> but for wired we need to make a new icon
<ckontros> I swore we had one.
 * ckontros looks.
<ckontros> What /should/ it be named?
 * mac_v checks
<picklesworth> Is there a particular direction that the light should be coming from with the Humanity set?
<mac_v> ckontros: /status/network-offline , i havent checked for wired could you check it
<ckontros> mac_v: Maybe use network-wired?
<mac_v> ckontros: the 'nm-device-wired' is for the connected state
<ckontros> mac_v: Looks like we dont have that one. Maybe a link for now.
<mac_v> ckontros: like to network wired? oh no... there was a bug which forced a change in human theme
<ckontros> I "wired". ;)
<ckontros> *I said..
<ckontros> mac_v: And shouldn't your icons be used in the panel? The nm-* ones?
<mac_v> ckontros: Bug #423167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423167 in human-icon-theme "Ethernet icon looks wrong in Default theme" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423167
<ckontros> mac_v: Yeah. That's what I was getting at with the  "beyond us" comment
<mac_v> ;)
<mac_v> ckontros: i can see the wireless icons being used as they are supposed to to be
<mac_v> picklesworth: i didnt understand what you meant , light from within?
<picklesworth> I noticed start-here.svg has light from the top left, but at-prefs and help have light from the top right.
<ckontros> mac_v: Odd. I switch to other sets and still get the issue. Karmic. Up-to-date. Has the fix hit the repo yet?
<mac_v> ckontros: i'm using the breathe set from the repo , and it uses the wireless icons nm-* for me , the no-connection update hasnt yet arrived though
<nysosym> mac_v: did you made the new icons?
<ckontros> mac_v: Ok. That's why I don't see it. Thanx.
<mac_v> nysosym: no... not all of them , mostly i started out doing the panel icons and then some icons within the humanity theme , but the Humanity theme was from the elementary theme
<mac_v> picklesworth: i think the start here was done similar to the human logo ,and the help and stuff, yeah inconsistent lighting ;)
<nysosym> oh well, i like the panel icons :)
<ckontros> mac_v: And is the issue fixed w/thumb drives? I have one plugged in here and it just stays the unmounted icon image where it used to look like a mounted drive.
<mac_v> thanks :)
<nysosym> but i miss one for the keychain :)
<mac_v> ckontros: yeah , we dont have different icons for the drives mounted/unmounted...so the both states will look the same
<picklesworth> mac_v: Hrm... good enough explanation. I guess that icon is small enough, but good to know I'm not just crazy. Thanks :)
<ckontros> We do. Unless the spec changed. drive-harddisk and drive-removable-media.
<mac_v> nysosym: doing the icon for the keychain , will make the greyscale icon appear in the windows .. so hence it hasnt been done
<nysosym> mac_v: ohh ok hope for the next ubuntu version :)
<mac_v> ckontros: oh that  , yeah ... davidz has messed up , gvfs :/
<mac_v> he has the drive icons change only for certain disks !
<mac_v> ckontros: drive-harddisk will be used for only the internal partitions , the external usb drives will use the drive-harddisk-usb icon , and the removable media not sure where that is used !
<ckontros> mac_v: drive-removable-media-* ?
<ckontros> Seems like we might need more links. :(
<mac_v> ckontros:  drive-removable-media-usb for pendrives
<ckontros> Damn. Something musta changed. We have: drive-removable-media-usb-pendrive.
<mac_v> ckontros: drive-removable-media-ieee1394 is for firewire drives thats labelled correctly
<mac_v> ckontros:  i corrected the pendrive by adding a symlink "drive-removable-media-usb"
<ckontros> We need to link drive-removable-media-usb to gnome-dev-harddisk-usb
<ckontros> And the pendrive one should be removed. (i think)
 * ckontros starts hackin'.
<mac_v> ckontros: i asked andrew sb about remaning , he said that would mess up the ivon-naming utils
<mac_v> icon*
<mac_v> ckontros: hence i just added the symlinks
<ckontros> mac_v: Which would it mess up?
 * ckontros looks at the latest spec.
<mac_v> ckontros: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506532#c6
<ubottu> Gnome bug 506532 in general "icons needed for gvfs" [Normal,New]
<mac_v> thats the new naming for the drives , the drive-removable-media , seems to be unused
<ckontros> Blah. And the spec is not updated to reflect.
<mac_v> ckontros: forwarding andrew sb's mail
<ckontros> k
<ckontros> mac_v: So can we keep gnome-dev-harddisk-usb and make a link names drive-removable-media-usb? Humanity does this.
<mac_v> yeah
<ckontros> *named
<mac_v> ckontros: thats what i'v done for breathe too
<ckontros> I gotta look then because it doesn't work here.
<mac_v> ckontros: check the .links file
<mac_v> i added loads of symlinks
<ckontros> No. You just did it for the pendrive. Where it needs to link to gnome-dev-removable-usb
<ckontros> I'll edit and test locally.
<mac_v> ckontros: are you having the latest rev? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/revision/128
<ckontros> I am.
<mac_v> ckontros: oh! the gnome-dev-... why do you want to add it?
<ckontros> Because That's part of my issue here. Here other sets have the links.
<mac_v> damn! i missed that one
<ckontros> I'm doing it now.
<ckontros> mac_v: I understand what Andrew is saying. Something he's uncertain about though. I'll work on this today and hopefully we can eek out 1 more fix.
<ckontros> Yep. That was it. ;) Ant the "wired" connection thing is out of our hands right?
<mac_v> ckontros: which was it?
<mac_v> the wired is out yeah
<ckontros> Ok. I wan't waste my time then.
<ckontros> gnome-dev-removable-usb with a link called drive-removable-media-usb
<mac_v> ckontros: how did you fix the naming for the drives?
<ckontros> But I think it needs to be the other way around. (as per the spec)
<mac_v> ckontros: so that now changes the icon when you unmount?
<ckontros> Hmm...
<mac_v> well... it doesnt for me :(
<ckontros> Something's odd.
<ckontros> I didn't up the change yet.
<ckontros> USB drives show as such, but are dissappearing when unmounted.
<ckontros> brb
<ckontros> mac_v: I do not get 2 different icons for the state the pendrive in in anymore. (ie: Jaunty) But, it does correctly show as a USB drive and not an unmounted drive icon.
<ckontros> mac_v: But wow. The more I just look at this bug (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506532#c6) just, wow.
<ubottu> Gnome bug 506532 in general "icons needed for gvfs" [Normal,New]
<ckontros> It's WAY more broke down.
<mac_v> ckontros: the disappearing is because the eject icon now "ejects" the drive completely , right click and select unmount that way the icon will not dissapear and wont change
<mac_v> ckontros: yeah , davidz broke more stuff just for his own convenience and his ideology!
<ckontros>  /Should/ it? I don't see an icon for that now. Unless it should use the old one.
<mac_v> ckontros: he doesnt want the icons to change! see the last comments on the bug :/
<ckontros> mac_v: I see. I liked that! It told me what state it was in. :(
<mac_v> ckontros: me too, i totally miss that feature , do comment on the bug ;)
<ckontros> Like a "Me to!" will get us anywhere.
<mac_v> ckontros: he seems to think having separate icons for SATA , SCSI and stuff are more useful! than the state change icons :/
<ckontros> Well sure. I agree there, but if you unmount the drive using the old unmounted icons for everything seems fine.
<ckontros> Seems a simple thing.
<ckontros> But someone needs to update that damn spec. http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html
<ckontros> Constant moving targets and spotty documentation like this wanna make me stay in windows. :(
 * mac_v makes me wanna downgrade to intrepid ;)
<ckontros> mac_v: I'm *seriously* considering going back to Jaunty.
<mac_v> ckontros: did you upgrade or d a fresh install of karmic?
<mac_v> do*
<ckontros> Fresh install.
<ckontros> I usually do. Though I've had fine luck on the wifes lappy.
<mac_v> ckontros:  it seems that doing an upgrade to karmic will allow the old icon changes to work... someone said so , but have to test it myself
<mac_v> this seems to occur due to hal vs gvfs conflicts
<ckontros> I mean, I like that USB drives show that way now. Just wished we had the unmounted states back.
<mac_v> ckontros: wishing without commenting on the bug or without convincing davidz is not going to solve anything ;p
<ckontros> mac_v: I'm gonna push these changes and email Andrew.
<ckontros> I'll let you guys fight that fight. I have more important personal matters to attend to.
<mac_v> ckontros: just a sec , what naming did you add?
<ckontros> ie: usr/share/icons/Breathe/scalable/devices/gnome-dev-removable-usb.svg usr/share/icons/Breathe/scalable/apps/drive-removable-media-usb.svg
<ckontros> But it should be the other way around. Actual icon should be: drive-removable-media-usb.
<mac_v> ckontros: usr/share/icons/Breathe/16x16/devices/drive-removable-media-usb-pendrive.png usr/share/icons/Breathe/16x16/apps/drive-removable-media-usb.png
<mac_v> that icon is for the pendrive
<ckontros> I wanna tackle that later.
<mac_v> aw crap!
<ckontros> That wasn't working here as it showed everything as pendrives.
<mac_v> ckontros: adding this link link worked for me > usr/share/icons/Breathe/scalable/devices/gnome-dev-removable-usb.svg usr/share/icons/Breathe/scalable/apps/drive-harddisk-usb.svg
<ckontros> What crap?
<mac_v> i pasted the wrong line ;)
<ckontros> And that's what I added to the .links file.
<mac_v> we both have added contradicting links :/
<ckontros> But, the *actual* icon should be "drive-harddisk-usb" and icon-naming-utils makes the "gnome-dev-removable-usb" link. If the utils package is up-to-date.
<ckontros> I commented out your pendrive one.
<mac_v> hmm... no sure how that works for me the pendrive link works for the pendrive like a sony vault and the hardisk-usb worked for a western digital drive
<mac_v> that works.... for me*
<ckontros> Well we have an actual pendrive icon. So that should work fine. And my addition should fix the rest.
<ckontros> But hell. I don't see a pendrive mentioned in the spec. :(
<ckontros> Geeze this is maddening. Damn moving target.
<ckontros> Pendrive isn't even mentioned here: http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html
<ckontros> mac_v: In the end, I'll get as much info on this as I can and rework trunk to reflect these changes.
<mac_v> ok... i'm a bit confused about what links you'v added .... from what i'v tested... pendrive uses > /drive-removable-media-usb  , the usb external drives use > /gnome-dev-harddisk-usb.svg
<mac_v> ckontros: ^
<ckontros> mac_v: What rev are you looking at?
<mac_v> ckontros: not rev any rev in particular... but in general .. from testing ... since these were the icons used i made the symlinks accordingly
 * mac_v links i'm blabbering ... cd bed 
<mac_v> think*
<ckontros> Hmm... I have to test something.
<mac_v> ckontros: the new update just arrived , and the links i made are working correctly.. ie  pendrive uses > /drive-removable-media-usb  , the usb external drives use > /gnome-dev-harddisk-usb.svg
<mac_v> the other symlink i have for the usb external drive is drive-harddisk-usb from gnome-dev-harddisk-usb
<ckontros> I'm seeing that. I mighta messed up.
<ckontros> I'll revert the branch in a sec.
<troy_s> ckontros: Greets.
<ckontros> yo yo
<mac_v> ckontros: another thing! when i uninstalled breathe and installed again... the symlinks are not being created ... why is that?
<ckontros> Don't know. I'm gettin' the update now. (damn archive is slow)
<mac_v> symlinks from the .links file are not being created*
<ckontros> mac_v: Which ones?
<troy_s> ckontros: Has there been movement in -rt or something?
<troy_s> ckontros: I see much chatter about it.
<ckontros> troy_s: Other channel.
<mac_v> ckontros: oh ,they are created... but i messed up! i created the links to the apps folder!;( but the icons work though ;p
<ckontros> mac_v: Doh! I'll fix that up now.
<mac_v> ckontros: but how are they working? even when i the apps folder? doesnt the folder location matter ...? [not that it shouldnt be fixed]
<mac_v> when it is in *
<ckontros> mac_v: I think it doesn't matter. Looks for them anywhere. If you look at the Humanity structure, it's totally different than other sets. I changed apps->devices. Anything else I should do before I commit?
<mac_v> ckontros: i think if you do a minor edit we can have the generic flash icon
<ckontros> media-flash?
<mac_v> yeah
<ckontros> What do you need? What's not right??
<ckontros> (sorry for the "??")
<mac_v> ckontros: the media-flash icon is now a chip , which seems wrong... the memory stick icon can be used instead .. remove the labels from the memory stick icon and rotate it 90degrees and we can have a generic media-flash icon
<mac_v> well , its for a quick edit ;p ... but if you have time you can add more details ;)
<ckontros> Well that's why it's a chip. :) REAL generic. I'll leave this one for now as it's an aesthetic design choice I'll run by Sebastian 1st.
<mac_v> ckontros: lol ... ok ... then nothing more i can see that needs an edit
<ckontros> mac_v: Changes pushed.
<ckontros> bbl
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-11
<mac_v> ckontros: http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/icons-types.html.en#document_icons
<mac_v> the first part is specifically against the use of the paper for music files ,
<mac_v> its like how we differentiate /incoming/sebas_mimes/application-x-executable.svg  and /incoming/sebas_mimes/text-x-script.svg
<darkmatter> they better ban the use of paper metaphors in general then, as nothing on the system is actually on paper :D
<ckontros> mac_v: While I appreciate the link, we're gonna design the icons as we see fit.
<ckontros> Not trying to sound crappy. Just wanna acknowledge receiving the link, though I somewhat disagree with it.
<mac_v> ckontros: yeah , i disagree with the part about using text in the icons ... but someone filed a bug and pointed that link regarding humanity's icon ... so wanted to show it ;)
<ckontros> mac_v: Thanx
<nysosym> good morning :)
<nysosym> mac_v: is a grey panel icon for ubuntu one planned? :)
<mac_v> nysosym: it already has the ubuntuone icons , but they seems to be not used :/ i think it was more due to the reasons that the app might need code change
<darkmatter> is it just my OS's, or does GNOME 2.28's tooltips make balloon sounds when they pop up? oO
<darkmatter> hello xp.... /facepalm
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> mat_t: heya... the shutdown icon was updated ;) the screenshot you showed helped speed up stuff ;p
<mat_t> mac_v: yeah, just updated - looks great :)
<ckontros> mac_v: One thing about this whole drive naming shuffle is that now my media players done come up as such. (iPod and iRiver players) One comes up as a thumb drive and the other as a usb harddrive.
<mac_v> ckontros: try adding a drive-removable-ipod or a media-removable-ipod? see if that works?
<ckontros> They are there.
<ckontros> Oh wait.
 * ckontros looks
<ckontros> mac_v: So then multimedia-player-* no longer is the standard convention?
<mac_v> ckontros: did it work? i think we can leave those names as is and just add symlinks... the names are needed when users upgrade rather than fresh install
<ckontros> Hell with it. I'm leaving it as-is. I'll say upstream is nuts and broke it all. I'll rename the actual icons according to the spec when it's done. I'm tired of the moving target.
<nysosym> hi there
<nysosym> mac_v: is a gray panel icon for file operations planed?
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<nysosym> hi
<mac_v> dashua: around?
<mac_v> anyone know how to remove the focus around the slider ?  http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-The%20Widget%20Factory.png
<zniavre> mac_v,  in scale (whatever the name here it's scale-murrine) bg[SELECTED]	 = @bg_color  but it takes the bg color for the slider
<zniavre> http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4167/capture1z.png
<zniavre> http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6946/captureznt.png
<mac_v> zniavre: ah ha! ... got it thanks... that was driving me crazy :(
<zniavre> :o)
<mac_v> zniavre: for some reason i kept missing this setting! i always remember not to use murrine for slider! argh! silly me.! i like clearlooks for slider :)
<zniavre> CLASSIC OR GLOSSY ?
<zniavre> oops sorry for caps-locks
<mac_v> zniavre: glossy
<zniavre> i do not like the classic one (it remind me ubuntulooks)
<mac_v> with glossy , the slider knob can be as small as we like :)
<mac_v> and still look decent
<zniavre> it can be round ?
<zniavre> as in my screenshot?
<mac_v> zniavre: round i'm not sure , how do you get it round?
<mac_v> GtkScale::slider-length = 10 , this is an easy one
<zniavre> engine murrine added roundness = 7
<zniavre> you can see the gtkrc in the shot
<mac_v> zniavre: oh yeah... i dont think there is a roundness option in clearlooks
<zniavre> radius does not exists anymore?
<mac_v> zniavre: doesnt seem to work... or maybe i'm doing it wrong
<mac_v> engine "clearlooks"{
<mac_v> 		contrast = 1.0
<mac_v> 		radius = 0.0
<mac_v> 		style = GLOSSY
<mac_v> 	}
<dashua> mac_v, Sup mate?
<mac_v> dashua: i was litterally pulling my hair after accidentally using murrine engine for the slider and forgetting about it ;p ... zniavre rescued me ;)
<dashua> Ah nice
<dashua> Still working on your blue Dust Sand theme?
<dashua> Image was gone
<mac_v> dashua: oh , i'm doing a mix of your hanso and kwwii's login theme
<dashua> Sweet.
<dashua> Why the industrial engine?
<dashua> Sure, there is a reason.
<mac_v> dashua: the window border is from kwwii's
<mac_v> metacity
<dashua> Cool, can you repost that image?
<dashua> Expired.
<zniavre> are you speaking about HumanLogin metacity ?
<mac_v> dashua: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-2.png
<mac_v> zniavre: yeah , or was it more from your theme  ;)
<dashua> zniavre, widget_class "*GdmGreeterPanel*" style "dark"
<dashua> Did you try that for your GDM issues?
<dashua> mac_v, Nice
<dashua> Ofc dark will have to be defined
<mac_v> doing stuff in black mess-up a lot of stuff :( ... just started hacking this up...
<zniavre> dashua,  im starting vbox to try right now
<dashua> Use the dark defintion from Hanso if it was not included in DarkHuman
<dashua> mac_v, It's truly a mess going black.
<zniavre> dashua,  http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2347/capture2pf.png
<zniavre> no it does not work
<dashua> Did you add a style = "dark" ?
<dashua> http://paste.ubuntu.com/291128/
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/27188/screenshot_006_9zUuI6.png
<dashua> This is pretty sexxy
<dashua> You Xubuntu guys have some good taste ;)
<mac_v> dashua: why adding breathe for hanso? it wouldnt be in the default install so might prompt , theme wont work
<dashua> It's always been there and Andrew added a dependency for it in the community-themes package
<dashua> I didn't want to screw things up too bad
<mac_v> oh... if its in the dependencies ... then not a problem :)
<dashua> Yeah
<zniavre> dashua,  still does not work
<dashua> It will get more exposure too as Humanity is already getting it by default
<zniavre> even with your dark style
<dashua> zniavre, Damn
<dashua> GDM is evil.  I don't know what else to say. =/
<zniavre> i was thinking about gtkHBox but i did not success
<dashua> Try changing fg[NORMAL] to a dark color in the dark style?
<zniavre> what is funny it has the same behavior of XUL apps (reverse bg/fg for menu)
<dashua> Yeah, that is crazy
<dashua> Thunderbird does some weird thing as well
<dashua> things*
<zniavre> it change only the color of font of the panel not the widget inside the pnel
<zniavre> panel*
<zniavre> (sorry for my bad english  :o(  )
<dashua> Np
<zniavre> thank you
<dashua> mac_v, The Bluetooth icon in elementary is sexxy.  Maybe something like that for Breathe?
<dashua> It would integrate pretty nice.
<mac_v> dashua: i think breathe is frozen for now... not sure when work will start again...
<dashua> Ah alright.
<kwwii> breathe is not frozen, people need to step up and help
<kwwii> anyway, night
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-11
<thorwil> vish: didn't see you mail in notification addressees. edited https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<thorwil> vish: feel invited to tweak it
<thorwil> good night!
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-12
<Wazzzaaa> Hello, anyone knows where I can find a printable CD Cover (the one from shipit?) for lucid 10.04?
<Wazzzaaa> Found it, bye
<thorwil> http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/be-a-designer/
<Schendje> thorwil: most of it sounds pretty fair
<Schendje> thorwil: big list though :P
<thorwil> nah, certain publications would have stretched that to a top 10 or 20
<Schendje> thorwil: oh yeah but the individual points i mean
<Schendje> "know cognitive psychology" is quite a bit easier said than done ;)
<thorwil> Schendje: i think just a few basics is all you need for most projects
<Schendje> thorwil: yeah that's true
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-13
<markben> *ping*
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-14
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> hello i can't modify the "application-running.png" icon do you know why ?
<zniavre> icons theme are trickiest things like panel theming   :o(
<Cimi> zniavre: what's that for?
<Cimi> zniavre: is that the triangle used in indicator-messages?
<zniavre> small triangle in indicator stuff
<zniavre> that right
<Cimi> zniavre: it is now using a custom cairo drawing
<Cimi> zniavre: that icon no longer works
<zniavre> ok
<zniavre> it should be tweaked via gtkrc if it's possible?
<Cimi> no
<Cimi> it's static
<zniavre> ha ok
<zniavre> thank you
<zniavre> :o)
<doctormo> thorwil: That's not a list of requirements, that's an ultimate list of god like power. But I think we can do it ;-)
<thorwil> doctormo: heh, yeah, the list is demanding. but that's where i arrived after thinking about the process several times
<doctormo> I think your right. launchpad accounts we can do, svg thumbnails can be done via librsvg-bin (at least better deps than full inkscape)
<doctormo> Management of entries is just database stuff, front end would be html, css and js monkeying and the git/bzr stuff would need an interface.
<Schendje> you guys are seriously considering making this?
<Schendje> if so, i'd love to help where i can
<thorwil> doctormo: what would you pick as a base? i'm interested in http://liftweb.net/, but it's scala. otherwise i would tend to pylons/turbogears2
<thorwil> i would try to make the project neutral, as tying it to ubuntu would needlessly limit its value
<thorwil> after all, some art/design projects could be tied to applications, not a distro
<thorwil> Schendje: cool. do you have a background in web-development?
<Schendje> thorwil: well, sort of ;)
<Schendje> thorwil: i'm not a developer, but html/css/javascript i can do
<thorwil> my python is limited, i'm not in training in any other programming language. have a good base in html/css, should have no problem to write templates. at least if it's mako templates
<thorwil> doctormo: is the preview on http://art.ubuntu-owl.org/files/thorwil/13 the result of librsvg-bin?
<thorwil> bbl, out for a walk
<doctormo> thorwil: No, that's imagemagik, whihc is why it's unsuitable.
<doctormo> librsvg is what does gnome svg, it's not as good as inkscape, but it's not as terrible as imagemagik.
<doctormo> I'm a python programmer, django is my thing and I have modules that tie into launchpad already. We can reuse code from the loco directory and other django sites if we use that as a base.
<doctormo> bbs, sleep
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-15
 * vish catches up with artwork mailing list..
<vish> thorwilÂ¦ did you reply to kofi ?
<vish> i think i may have stopped you back then :(
<thorwil> vish: no, didn't. don't worry about people who don't show initiative too much ;)
<vish> :)
<thorwil> doctormo: heh, while the list might be full of people who have no idea who you are, i often read your posts via planet ubuntu and i took notice of groundcontrol
<doctormo> thorwil: Hey!
<doctormo> thorwil: I've been battling IRC to get back online to talk to you some more about the website idea.
<thorwil> doctormo: i'm here now, but about to disappear soon, for a bit
<doctormo> What is your timezone?
<thorwil> CEST/Berlin, currently GMT+2
<doctormo> thorwil: I'm GMT-5, so we'll be out by about 7 hours, :-/ but not impossible.
<doctormo> Quickly though, I fancy django, I have code, it's python, I like it. your thoughts?
<thorwil> doctormo: who doe,  decides
<doctormo> thorwil: And if 5 people doeth on their tod?
<thorwil> doctormo: in the python realm, pylons/turbogears are nice for making it easy to select components and for only including what you need
<thorwil> doctormo: tod?
<thorwil> ah, it means alone, on their own, apparently
<doctormo> thorwil: increasing English comprehension since 1984 ;-)
<thorwil> heh
<doctormo> So about this kind of thing, what does django not do that pylons can help with?
<doctormo> (I'm also reading up on them both too)
<thorwil> it's rather that django might do a bit more. the pylons stuff is based on wsgi from the get go, so you have components sitting right on that standard
<thorwil> where django has it's own approach to components, afaik
<vish> thorwilÂ¦ what are you guys talking about? design hub?
<thorwil> it's my a suspicion that django is more rigid and gets in your way once you treat offside usual CMS paths
<doctormo> http://www.djangopony.com/
<thorwil> vish: our take on it, yes
<vish> ah..
<vish> k.. I will really read the full mailing list, now! ;)
<vish> i mean the backlog.
<doctormo> thorwil: So, reading up it seems that if we're making a website which is mostly publishing, then djanog makes a lot of sense.
<thorwil> who could argue with a pink pony!?
<vish> doctormoÂ¦ was that by hbons or lapo by any chance?
<vish> they seem to have a recent pony fetish ;p
<thorwil> doctormo: i don't doubt that django will be appropriate, but still wonder if other approaches wouldn't be better in the long run
<doctormo> But if we're making a lot of custom models and doing a lot of things out of ORM/MVC then pylons would work better in the long run.
<thorwil> doctormo: but in any case, best might be to design this thing first, before turning to implementation
<doctormo> We have AlchemySQL in pylons, but the rather weak db ORM in django, (I don't like that ORM btw)
<doctormo> thorwil: You wanted to discus frameworks first.
<thorwil> doctormo: that's a misunderstanding.
<thorwil> but it doesn't hurt to see what's out there and where we have experience
<thorwil> gone for a bit, bbl
<thorwil> i think nothing i didn't mention already, but http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/web-frameworks/
<ineedhelp> Hello!
<ineedhelp> I was just offered $100,000 from Pepsi plus $10,000 from other contributors and I am donating ALL of the money back to the arts and public schools! I just need votes! I have to hit 10,000 votes in order for them to donate, so please assist me in giving back to the arts. In addition I will donate $1 of my own money for every vote I receive. Society needs to come together and MAXIMIZE the votes! Let's get this thing viral! We can 
<ineedhelp> www,arttakesmiami.com/ryanpaulsimmons
<ineedhelp> www.arttakesmiami.com/ryanpaulsimmons
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-16
<thorwil> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Supplemental_Wallpapers_Winners
<vish> thorwilÂ¦ huh! so fedora has gone flickr too!
<vish> well, they atleast  clearly mention the winner names ;)
<vish> 's
<Nece228> hi
<Nece228> i have a question
<Nece228> what engines other than murrine light themes uses
<Nece228> also, why tooltips on my arch linux using light themes are squared and not transparent, while on ubuntu they are rounded and transparent
<Nece228> and window titlebar buttons background is ugly: http://j.imagehost.org/view/0795/Screenshot
<Nece228> altough same happens with ubuntu 10.10 themes
<Nece228> i think ubuntu has some patches
<kwwii> Nece228: the tooltip rounding and transparency is a patch from RH which probably didn't make it into ARCH, also there are some minor changes in ubuntu to include those settings in the theme itself (which is also probably missing) and in addition, you probably don't have the latest theme engine snapshot
<Nece228> well i have installed latest murrine git packages
<thorwil> looking for a term to describe someone who goes to a website because he needs an asset from it. needer/wanter is all i came up with, so far
<Nece228> kwwii: where can i get those patches
<vish> thorwilÂ¦ if he is an artist,  'artist' should work ;)
<vish> he/she too
<vish> and i dont think "needer/wanter" are english words
<vish> thorwilÂ¦ if you dont want to tie the person to a profession, you can just mention as "a person looking for assets..." :)
<thorwil> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Needer
<kwwii> I think we should get away from the term "artist" as it really means more of a fine-art artist
<kwwii> hi thorwil and vish, btw :-)
<thorwil> vish: trying to define the roles of potential users of a design-hub. one is  a person that is not a contributor and does not issue a request, but just visits the site and looks for an asset
<vish> kwwiiÂ¦ hey! :)
<thorwil> kwwii: hi ken!
<thorwil> yeah, if i was in charge, we'd close ubuntu-art(work) and start anew with a "design" label
<vish> hehe!
<kwwii> thorwil: well, I don't  think anyone else would really mind (and nobody is in charge now afaict)
<vish> yea..
<vish> thorwilÂ¦ just do it like how mizmo did for the personas, just pick someone or some person who is not an artist.. ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<thorwil> vish: not working on a persona level. this is thinking on the system level
<vish> thorwilÂ¦ yep, got it, but its like saying "average joe/jane" â¦
<thorwil> vish: one sometimes valuable thing to do when designing is to define the system
<thorwil> the environment, people and their roles and relations ...
<thorwil> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-community
<thorwil> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-design-in-open-source
<thorwil> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-research-to-design
<thorwil> mpt brought those up. maybe this time i'll be in my element at uds :)
<vish> hmm, i need to catch up on a lot of mails :(
<vish> btw, i think the web needs better dictionaries  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/needer
<vish> http://oxforddictionaries.com/noresults?dictionaryVersion=region-uk&isWritersAndEditors=true&noresults=true&page=1&pageSize=20&q=needer&searchUri=All&sort=alpha&type=dictionarysearch
<kwwii> vish: well, it is not a real word in english
<kwwii> there is no such thing as a "needer" in the official language
<vish>  yea, i said so too, but freedictionary is misleading thorwil :(
<vish> [00:56] <thorwil> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Needer
<thorwil> i though needer was a perfectly cromulent!
<vish>  or Klingon!
<kwwii> hrm, that is a very old phrase as well as the fact that needer is not used as any kind of pronoun but rather as an adverb
<vish> there is needier, and the sort.. but needer is odd
<kwwii> indeed
<kwwii> lol, I am not a needer, I am an indeeder
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> guess i have to go with Seeker, then
<thorwil> but i always will have to think of http://www.entertainmentwallpaper.com/images/desktops/movie/tv_legend_of_the_seeker01.jpg then
<vish>  heh, i thought of harry potter ;p
<thorwil> harry potter lacks mord-sith: http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e372/Nomae/Kahlan-MordSith.jpg
<thorwil> good night!
<kwwii> so who is coming to Bamberg Germany on the 23rd to see my concert?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-17
<daker> hello
<daker> anything about the DesignHub ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-12
<zniavre> good morning
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-13
<kezia> exit
<kezia> exit
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-14
<Angelo> Hi! I'm new at ubuntu community. Could I help in some work?
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-15
<paul_> I was wondering what kind of art I could contribute?
<Thomas_de_Graaff> Anybody online?
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-10-08
<jimonade> hello, i would like to submit a wallpaper for quantal.  did i miss a deadline?  i've submitted it already to flickr/ubuntu (flikr/quantal is closed to uploads.  i've also uploaded to http://ubuntu-art.org/.
<jimonade> i'm just trying to submit this properly.  quetzal wallpaper at http://ubuntu-art.org/content/show.php?content=154574 , and http://www.flickr.com/photos/34439741@N03/8067270944/
