#xubuntu-devel 2010-11-01
<yahyai-0_> _> any one know how to make text-plymouth theme??
#xubuntu-devel 2010-11-02
<charlie-tca> Good morning, everybody
<ochosi> morning
#xubuntu-devel 2010-11-03
<charlie-tca> Good morning, everybody
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
#xubuntu-devel 2010-11-04
<charlie-tca> Good Morning
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, This looks pretty interesting, eh?: http://status.nullcortex.com/other/other/irccount2-year.png
<charlie-tca> That is interesting. How do we raise our numbers now?
#xubuntu-devel 2010-11-05
<serpyxa> hi every1
<serpyxa> i need help
<charlie-tca> 8gm
<charlie-tca> Good Morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: that abiword translation bug. Isn't that a .desktop file translation?
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Good morning, davmor2 
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: indeed, but still, it's probably upstream (unless they now translate universe packages on lp)
<mr_pouit> to me, rosetta is an awesome tool to break translation, so I avoid speaking about it :P
<charlie-tca> heh, thanks
<charlie-tca> um, I broke natty when I updated last night and then shut down the computer
<charlie-tca> I will have to try and fix it tonight
<charlie-tca> w00t! Xfce 4.7 now running in Natty
<pleia2> yay!
#xubuntu-devel 2010-11-06
<charlie-tca> We need to update team reports for October, please. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-31
<knome> ochosi, shot?
<ochosi> sure, one sec
<ochosi> actually i'm trying to figure out why skype and most other qt-apps don't recognize my gtk-theme in oneiric
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> as long as i export GTK2_RC_FILES="$HOME/.gtkrc-2.0" it works
<knome> a-ha
<ochosi> so i guess i need to make an xinitrc
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-010656am.php
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> doesn't look bad at all
<ochosi> i'm considering making the scrollbar a bit lighter
<ochosi> to stand out less
<ochosi> maybe like the resize-grip
<GridCube> ochosi, thats pretty much awesome
<ochosi> but i'm not sure
<knome> yeah, probably wise
<ochosi> with dark terminal-bg: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-011007am.php
<GridCube> not bad
<GridCube> not bad at all
<ochosi> yeah, i think that works ok as well
 * GridCube still wants embossed text :P
<ochosi> GridCube: i think that'd make the window-title stand out less...
<knome> the upper-right corner is a bit weird, but there's not much you can do about it..
<GridCube> :P i know, but it would still be awesome
<ochosi> knome: believe me, that's even weirder when adding a new tab...
<knome> ochosi, lol
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-011228am.php
<knome> ahha
<knome> overlapping detected  :P
<ochosi> yeah :)
<knome> otherwise, that's nice
<ochosi> we basically have that problem already
<ochosi> so it's not entirely new
<knome> mmh
<GridCube> it doesn't look that bad
<ochosi> GridCube: look closely at the resize-grip
<GridCube> yes and the top of the scroll bar too
<ochosi> knome: what do you think about adding a tiny border to the resize-grip, similar to what the scrollbar has. too obtrusive?
<ochosi> GridCube: yep
<ochosi> like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-011557am.php
<GridCube> thats better
<ochosi> knome: i have to say i instantaneously like it :)
<knome> ochosi, yeah, it's good
<ochosi> k, i'll push that then
<ochosi> it also looks better in other windows
<knome> :)
<knome> you mean in vista too?
 * knome hides
<ochosi> still not obtrusive and more like: "you can click me"
<ochosi> yes :)
<ochosi> meh, i hate that i have to always enter my credentials for zimagez in xfce-screenshoter
<ochosi> wonder whether there's a way around that
<knome> :)
<knome> probably is
<GridCube> using another imagehosting ?
<knome> or you can just use "sausage" as the password
<ochosi> yeah, maybe i'll just try something like that
<ochosi> GridCube: i think xfce-screenshooter only supports zimagez atm
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> REPORTING A WISHLISTBUG!
<GridCube> /caplocks OFF
<ochosi> another image with the new resize-grip: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-012252am.php
<knome> mm-hmm
<ochosi> actually that makes me wonder whether we should try to make the window-controls look like that as well
<ochosi> or whether it'd be over-the-top
<GridCube> light-grey icons?
<knome> hard to accomplish i think, since you'd have to add 1px border to top-right-bottm-left..
<ochosi> knome: yeah true
<ochosi> GridCube: was mostly referring to the border
<GridCube> ok
<knome> http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:websitetodo
<knome> feel free to see if there is something that looks off
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> knome: hm, i think mostly the "x"-button would be hard to do, the others i can imagine working out. but i'm not sure it would look pretty...
<knome> yeah
<GridCube> ochosi, but what about people moving them around?
 * GridCube hides
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> me thinks maybe it's too late for him already to get jokes
<ochosi> +/
<GridCube> ochosi, 
<GridCube> http://sirupsen.com/a-simple-imgur-bash-screenshot-utility/
<ochosi> GridCube: hmyeah, sure there are other ways, but i kinda like xfce4-screenshooter. probably i'll talk to jerome and see if he's willing to fix it
<knome> UAAH
<knome> i hate the ubuntu wiki
<knome> why is <b> and <a> set to be taller than a line?
<knome> that's retarded
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website
<ochosi> someone just fixed the terminal-tabs :) http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-014231am.php
<knome> hmm
<knome> can you have a gradient on the non-active tab?
<knome> or is that out of control
<ochosi> hm, tbh i don't know :)
<knome> it's slightly confusing
<ochosi> but i guess i can
<knome> the active tab mixing so much with the bh
<knome> *bg
<knome> in the tab-area too
<knome> if the gradient could start lower on the tab, it would be optimal
<knome> but i suppose it can't :P
<ochosi> yeah. that's the price you pay...
<knome> what if you added just a very slightly darker 1px border?
<ochosi> then it'd break the resize-grip again
<knome> huh?
<ochosi> i realized that what you see "behind" the resize-grip is the tab-frame
<knome> aha
<ochosi> so that border has to go...
<knome> :<
<GridCube> ochosi, what if you edit ~/.config/xfce4/xfce4-screenshooter/xfce4-screenshooter          and add a "password=something"
<knome> me not likey
<ochosi> GridCube: already tried ;)
 * GridCube doesn't know why he is so worried about this
<ochosi> worried about what?
<GridCube> XD about making it work
<GridCube> maybe worried is not tthe correct word
<knome> determined :P
<knome> meh, it's 3am
<ochosi> hehe
<GridCube> obsessed
<knome> oh yay
<knome> nuts
<GridCube> you broke the ubuntu wiki?
<knome> nope
<knome> i'm eating roasted and salted cashew nuts
<knome> i thought i could have a little something if i'm going to stay up longer :P
<ochosi> it's slowly getting better i think: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-015553am.php
<GridCube> :D it is
<ochosi> dunno why the gradient is so clumsy though
<knome> now we're talking; some *very* hot chili sauces with minced meat and beans with nacho chips
<knome> ochosi, would that be because some gtk setting?:P
<ochosi> knome: some stupid murrine-setting, no clue which one :)
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> but tbh i can live with this
<ochosi> i mean it's not like i create a lot of tabs in my terminals
<GridCube> cant it be not gradiented?
<ochosi> well it has a gradient, it's just not very elegant :)
<knome> ochosi, i think we played with that setting in albatross, but can't remember what that was
<ochosi> yeah, albatross has a very intense glaze
<knome> hmmm...
 * knome feels the 'after death' in his mouth
<GridCube> ochosi, :P can't you make it like firefox's tabs?
 * ochosi thinks GridCube must be kidding
<ochosi> :)
<GridCube> XD
<knome> anybody else want some 50k scoville dip?
<GridCube> not knowing what that is,no
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale
<GridCube> D: no, thanks
<GridCube> last time i did one of those i puked
<knome> hah
<ochosi> think i'll stick with this for now: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-021226am.php
<ochosi> definitely better than what we started out with imo
<knome> :)
<ochosi> it's even ok with a dark terminal
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10312011-021507am.php
<knome> :)
<ochosi> so i think i'll push both the new resize-grip and the terminal stuff
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> i like it very much
<ochosi> ok, both in git now
<ochosi> think i'll also update the gmb-version in our ppa
<knome> everyone gone? :P
<ochosi> nah, still waiting for the gmb-packages to build
<ochosi> so i can test them
<knome> heh
<ochosi> when it's already so late i tend to break things, so it's better to test the package :)
<knome> see image posted at #shimmer
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> you really think i'll click a link with such a title? :D
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> ok, i did, but i was a bit disappointed ;)
<knome> yeah
<knome> but what a lovely name
<knome> !
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> i wonder how much scovilles there is :P
<knome> i mean, if it's >500k, the name is earned
<knome> if not, then BOO
<knome> :P
<GridCube> i don't know how to apply this
<knome> how to apply a hot sauce? :P
<ochosi> ah nice, package just started building
<GridCube> i saved the old terminal.rc to terminal.old and then created a new terminal.rc, choosed the greybird.rc both on  appareance and windows decorations but no grey terminal
<GridCube> oh :D
<GridCube> manually changing it to #cecece
<ochosi> yes, the colors are not set by the gtk-theme
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> ochosi,  its possible to make round the bottom corners?
<ochosi> GridCube: for what?
<GridCube> like the top corners are when windowsed :p
<GridCube> for it to look nicer
<knome> SHINY!!
<ochosi> making them round would mean adding extra space in the bottom
<knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/
<knome> we got our changes pulled
<knome> one step closer to publishing it
<ochosi> nice
<GridCube> :D
<knome> okay, i'm off for tonight
<knome> see you later
<ochosi> nighty night
<GridCube> night
<GridCube> im gonna do the same
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> work tomorrow
<GridCube> :D
<ochosi> yup, me too
<GridCube> later this week i hope to buy my new computer \o/
<ochosi> what will you buy?
<GridCube> http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-125343930-netbook-exomate-1250-lcd-10-touchscreen-atom-450-2gb-320-gb-_JM
<ochosi> wow, pretty expensive stuff
<ochosi> yet very toy-ish in its aesthetics. that's a funny combination :)
<GridCube> (its on argentinian pesos, which is 700U$S
<ochosi> oh ok
<GridCube> but still, very expensive
<ochosi> yeo
<ochosi> yep
<GridCube> i could buy a 17" notebook for that, not touchy tho
<ochosi> looking forward to your xubuntu-touch-friendly review :)
<GridCube> this one i can make work lika a tablet and use at the uni or other places whitout calling too much attention :P
<GridCube> and its an intel classmate basically so it should work whit ubuntu
<ochosi> mhm
<GridCube> it has been reported to do so, except for the acelerometer
<GridCube> well now im gone :) good luck
<Bjorn__> hi, is there someone who can help me with a serious prob?
<GridCube> hey madnick, you around?
<madnick> GridCube: hi
<madnick> is everyone at the UDS :|
<madnick> GridCube: i read your email
<GridCube> apparently
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> awesome
<GridCube> i wanted to talk to you about that
<madnick> :P
<GridCube> i think theres a lot of redundancy on our database
<GridCube> date for example
<madnick> Well, the design is getting there, but the types are a bit wrong
<GridCube> :P explain
<madnick> Okay
<madnick> For example, we might not want "active" to bea 256 varchar, 
<madnick> and i was thinking we put arch to 64 bit or 32 bit
<madnick> we might even have an arch tble
<madnick> table*
<madnick> If its gonna be a not only xubuntu project
<madnick> and ram could be unsigned int
<madnick> and the schedule might need a bit more fields
<madnick> Or infact, we could put arch on the test table
<madnick> I have not really thought this through, because I was hoping we'd get more input on the mail
<GridCube> we might, we might not
<GridCube> i still do not understand what the "active" field stands for
<madnick> if the testcase is active or not 
<GridCube> the UserSpecs table needs a lotof work
<GridCube> i don't understand what that means madnick 
<madnick> well, lets say we have a test case "LiveCD Full Disk Install"
<madnick> or similar
<madnick> But we may want to make that inactive
<madnick> So that it does not show up
<madnick> But I also think that a test-schedule might be enough
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> thats what i was thinking
<GridCube> because teh "active" status is defined by the schedule
<madnick> Well, we can think more about the db, but lets wait a couple of days, because someone might come along with an idea that changes everything :D And then we need to do a complete redesign 
<madnick> And that is not fun :P
<ablomen> For the keeping the blog filled thing: just ran across this review >> http://goo.gl/6ug1D
<ochosi> mr_pouit: how come gvfs-backends isn't installed by default in 11.10? (as far as i can see now without it thunar can't do network-browsing)
<micahg> I take it there's no meeting today
<drc> Doesn't look like it....
<micahg> well, wouldn't be for another hour
 * drc hates time zones :(
<micahg> heh
<drc> Never remember if it's -6 or -5 here.
<micahg> drc: where are you?
<drc> Zulu Time Rocks!
<micahg> probably -5 this week and -6 next :)
<drc> I used to have a dula face watch, one with local and one with zulu
<drc> micahg: yeah...one I stop and think, I remember...but thinking is not my strong suit.
<micahg> drc: date -u :)
<drc> micahg: Sorry...Nebraska USA
<drc> I <think> it's CDT now...so -5...this week...
<micahg> yeah
<ochosi> micahg: yeah i think knome announced that the first team meeting would be after UDS
<ochosi> micahg: btw, has gmusicbrowser 1.1.8 been synced to debian yet?
<micahg> ochosi: alessio imported it, but hasn't uploaded, he's here at UDS, so hopefully I'll get to chat with him
<ochosi> oh cool
<ochosi> micahg: if you meet some of the other mozilla people, please bug them about the thunderbird-toolbar buttons ;)
<micahg> heh, I think I have someone to bug about that
<ochosi> awesome! :D
#xubuntu-devel 2011-11-01
<madnick> ScottL: Is a onscreen keyboard a priority in Ubuntustudios LightDM greeter?
<ScottL> madnick, i would say that it is not
<madnick> okay
#xubuntu-devel 2011-11-02
<astraljava> Congrats Pasi!
<Unit193> Not here ;)
<astraljava> Oh, damn.
<Unit193> He'll be back 5th-7th
<astraljava> Ok.
<Unit193> Welcome back yourself
<astraljava> Thanks.
<ochosi> mr_pouit: there seems to be a bug in xfce4-volumed when trying to unmute (simply put: unmute doesn't work anymore). can you confirm that?
<mr_pouit> I've seen a bug report about that for xfce4-mixer too, but I haven't investigated, audio on ubuntu tends to be messy ;>
<ochosi> hm, k
<ochosi> just wondering what could've broken
<ochosi> it's a bit annoying if you're used to use the shortcuts on a daily basis
<Unit193> xfce4-datetime-plugin is rather nice, I like the pop up calendar much better. I just can figure out how to get the date and time on one line. It's something that'd be nice in Pangolin
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i already added theming support for it in greybird
<ochosi> Unit193: try this in the "date"-line and disable the time: %a %d %b, %R
<Unit193> Thanks, wow...
<ochosi> Unit193: btw, this is how it looks with my theming: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-11022011-064214pm.php
<Unit193> Oh, that's nice!
<ochosi> you can try/use that if you want, it's not difficult
<Unit193> Hmmm.... Another post saying Xfce is like Gnome 2/KDE 3 http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/xubuntu-1110-and-my-netbook Worth a read (maybe the comments too)
<madnick> :)
<madnick> The grandmother argument shows up in the comments. again..
<Unit193> And people go into the channel asking why isn't Xfce Gnome2 -_-
<madnick> :P
<Unit193> mailtos not working for you?
<madnick> Did not understand that comment, what desktop? It works in the browser, where does one get mailto's on the desktop?
<Unit193> Terminal > Help > About > Credits > linky
<madnick> works :)
<madnick> Unit193: but it asks me to setup an account :\
<Unit193> Maybe you didn't set one up in T-Bird
<Unit193> ?
<madnick> Yeah, I do have a thunderbird account
<madnick> Unit193: i failed :P I used the terminal in the VM :D
<Unit193> Heh: :D
#xubuntu-devel 2011-11-03
<pleia2> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/xubuntu-1110-and-my-netbook
 * ochosi is already looking forward to the new xp.org site where we can then post stuff like this
<pleia2> we have a reviews page now, but it's hard to find
<pleia2> and not updated :\
<ochosi> pleia2: yeah, think we can/should do better
<pleia2> agreed
<madnick> There is no way to set autologin currently right? Except using lightdm.conf .. Perhaps there should be a simpler way for this?
<Pjotr> micahg: I noticed that you're not only a Xubuntu developer, but also a member of the Ubuntu Security Team. I'd like to request your attention for the following grave security issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/884252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 884252 in sun-java6 (Ubuntu) "Oracle (Sun) Java JRE urgently needs security update" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Pjotr> this affects Xubuntu as well, ofcourse
<micahg> Pjotr: indeed, but there's nothing we can do at the moment for that, use openjdk
<Pjotr> But shouldn't you pull Oracle Java immediately from the Partner repo then?
<micahg> although I'll try to poke about it
<micahg> Pjotr: well, there's not a licensing issue with 6u26
<Pjotr> Thanks in advance. IMHO, it should be pulled straightaway, en all current users should recieve a warning
<Pjotr> 6u26 is as insecure as can be:
<Pjotr> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/java-update-plugs-20-critical-security-holes/9670
<micahg> right, I'll bring it up at the security roundtable in the morning, but it's not the security team that would need to fix this as it's in partner, but I think we can poke the appropriate parties
<Pjotr> That's all I can ask at the moment. Thank you. :-)
<micahg> Pjotr: thanks for your interest in Xubuntu security :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-11-04
<olbi> hello
<olbi> I have seen that you started precise pangolin
<micahg> indeed, work has begun
<olbi> but I didnt seen much changes since last stable release :D
<micahg> it's early
<micahg> and we might end up with xfce 4.8 in precise
<olbi> nooo 
<olbi> in march xfce 4.10 so we have month to tests
<olbi> better take xfce 4.10 cause of 5 years support
<olbi> it could be bad stay 5 years with 4.8
<micahg> olbi: we won't be doing 5 years
<olbi> oh, I dont know that :D
<olbi> so Xubuntu doesnt have LTS?
<micahg> well, might be 3 years
<olbi> so good :) but with 4.10 :]
<olbi> I need it, for my 3 computers which I dont want change for 2 years :)
<Unit193> That may not be released in time, their schedule isn't working for them
<olbi> but they type that they should release at time
<Unit193> Show me where they say that
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-October/008008.html This is what I see
<olbi> sorry, problem with net at city :P
<Unit193> Seems they are never on time
<olbi> I love it :P
<olbi> it's like with Fedora and AMD CPU :P
<astraljava> I like AMD, but they're losing the battle worse and worse.
<astraljava> And their GPU drivers suck. For linux, that is.
<olbi> their Open source drivers are better  than Intel :P
<astraljava> But they don't do that.
<olbi> I have too 4 computers at house with AMD :]
<olbi> AthlonXP, Athlon64 and 2xAthlon II
<astraljava> I have one Athlon64 as well, and this laptop (from work) also has a quad core. It's great, but I'd rather have an i5.
<olbi> I would like to have i7 :D
<olbi> I dont understand why Core i5 for desktop are so expensive
<olbi> Intel could give less prices for them
<astraljava> I have no idea, I'm not buying anytime soon.
<olbi> I wonder if AMD will rise with their next CPU, than Intel lower price
<astraljava> Dunno. Don't really have much faith in them anymore.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-11-06
<madnick> bug 886401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 886401 in gthumb (Ubuntu) "xubuntu gthumb does not set desktop background" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886401
<madnick> infact the entire prodecure is gnome centric
<madnick> however the exact issue is this:
<madnick> #define DESKTOP_BACKGROUND_PROPERTIES_COMMAND "gnome-appearance-properties --show-page=background"
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> it works for me
<madnick> to click settings?
<holstein> maybe because i have gnome services enabled
<holstein> right-click and 'set as wallpaper'
<holstein> is that whats borked?
<madnick> Well, that may be due to not having gnome services, but clicking settings afterwards
<madnick> is broken, even with, i suspect
<holstein> not sure... i get the wallpaper set, and im unable to reproduce a settings error
<madnick> Oh
<holstein> i'll re-read the bug though
<holstein> maybe im not doing it right
<madnick> If it works, comment that he could enable gnome-services :P
<holstein> yeah, that would tell us if that is the fix i suppose
<madnick> Another issue is that, logging in with an XFCE session
<madnick> overwrites some data related to appearence
<nikolam> Hi. How to report a bug about ubuntu-bug unable to report bugs?
<astraljava> https://bugs.launchpad.net/apport/+filebug
<nikolam> ok, I did not know that reporting bugs on LP without ubuntu-bug works again
<astraljava> It's been working for quite a while now.
<nikolam> ah, it was a long time I reported bug, too. Ok, thanks.
<astraljava> No prob.
<SiDi> I can't believe gmusicbrowser has been set to default. The volume button in the app doesn't even work (ok, that MIGHT be because of Gstreamer, didnt check backtraces :D).
<knome> SiDi, it's much lighter and now better-looking too than exaile
<knome> SiDi, the problem with the volume control exists in oneiric only, afaik
<knome> (i don't really know since i only use the hardware volume control
<SiDi> knome: it's less intuitive imho. And there are things that are just confusing, the way playlists are managed is not straightforward, and I've had a hard time finding how to use the queue/current playlist/saved playlists, and what was this thing in the right side. I also didnt find how to sort albums by artists, there is no management of compilations (making it hard to find all songs of an album)
<SiDi> Also, why does the app tell you to go to the settings when the library is empty? A big "Add music to library" button could be added with no effort, and it would make it easier for users, who wouldnt have to find the settings icon and then browse through menus, to get their first experience of the player
<knome> SiDi, there is management for compilations
<knome> SiDi, select all songs in compilation, right-click -> song properties -> set "compilation"
<knome> SiDi, it is true that "playlists" are not the most intuitive in gmb, but it has great filtering capabilities
<knome> SiDi, the thing in the right side ??
<knome> SiDi, are you sure you are using the "shimmer" layout? :P
<SiDi> im using the default layout mate
<SiDi> well now the Exaile one. :p :p force of habit
<SiDi> i think playlist management should be audited. it's one thing i think was pretty clear in Exaile. Maybe it wasnt as powerful but I made sure that it didnt feel to weird or obscure to be used
<SiDi> compilations... should i really go through the pain of selecting the songs myself?
<knome> SiDi, i suppose so.
<SiDi> in exaile when an album has several artists, its a compilation, unless there is an albumartist tag which then indicates the main artist of the album and in which case other artists are just featured in a song
<knome> SiDi, maybe you should have a chat with ochosi, he can explain things better and knows more about them than me
<knome> SiDi, there is albumartist in gmb too
<SiDi> i think there should be an option to undo automatic compilations, instead of having to do them on my own :)
<knome> i don't really use playlists, so i don't know about those, or what is intuitive or not
<knome> i just use the queue tab if i need something to play after the current songs
<SiDi> okie
<knome> as i'm doing right now ;)
<ochosi> SiDi: i never had a problem with compilations
<ochosi> what problem are you having there?
<GridCube> :D ochosi im using the netbook now!
<GridCube> :D
<ochosi> nice, so it's working ok even with the touchscreen?
<SiDi> ochosi: they are not displayed automatically. I have plenty of artists with "1" song.
<GridCube> :D yes touchscreen worked out of the box
<ochosi> SiDi: hm, strange, the grouping should take care of that. maybe the album has differing albumartists
<SiDi> omg gmusicbrowser's options are so complex *.*
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> i know
<SiDi> i think its *insane*
<ochosi> that's why i created a rather easy-to-use layout for it
<ochosi> btw, exaile was also broken
<ochosi> and there was no-one to fix it
<ochosi> so...
<SiDi> i also suspect the french translation not to be so great...
<SiDi> yeah i know
<SiDi> but its more a gstreamer problem in 11.10 i think
<ochosi> the french translation of gmb?
<SiDi> yeah
<ochosi> the dev is french ;)
<SiDi> some words feel weird
<ochosi> so go and complain in #gmusicbrowser to squentin ;)
<SiDi> i dont even know how to translate in order to say whats wrong
<SiDi> i cant be arsed :D
<SiDi> i think the problem with gmb is kind of global. Things were put together, it can do a lot of things, ok, but the way features can be reached is just chaotic :D
<SiDi> i can do file management from the playlist, just as i have auto modifiers for song tags (some of them i dont even understand what they are for)
<SiDi> i think menus should be redesigned so that features are sorted by family, even if it takes more clicks, because it just makes life much more simple for newcomers
<SiDi> also there are bugs :p
<SiDi> (loves to whine)
<ochosi> yeah, please don't, i'm almost crying myself now... :)
<SiDi> :D
<GridCube> SiDi, :P you can always try other media centers, i like exaile and rhythmbox myself
<SiDi> GridCube: i'm a former exaile contributor, but it doesnt work on 11.10 and i didnt investigate yet.
<SiDi> even if i admit I SHOULD have worked on exaile so that it keeps working
<SiDi> i think gmb is not a better player :p
<GridCube> it is not by far even a "good" player
<astraljava> What, gmusicbrowser?
<GridCube> yes
<SiDi> im not arguing that :p it has potential because it has many features (meaning a probably clean and flexible underlying architecture)
<astraljava> Hmm, interesting.
<SiDi> it just needs a lot of love from HCI people i think
<GridCube> if you can not search something, and that be played, then its just bad
<astraljava> Please elaborate, that doesn't make much sense.
<GridCube> say you have a music collection, of 10000 songs, and you use the "search" option, it will search NOT on your collection, but on the "current playlist" wich has all the 10000 songs and will not play whatever you searched but the whole playlist instead
<SiDi> astraljava: who shall elaborate?
<astraljava> GridCube: Ahh... ok. Haven't used such a feature.
<SiDi> (besides i spent 90% of my irc time on the two last days whining to ochosi and knome just ask them for the irc logs :p)
<astraljava> SiDi: I meant the one who did so.
<GridCube> its not a feature, its how it works just after you install it
<GridCube> or add songs to the library
<astraljava> Umm... in my view, a feature isn't anything you add later on.
<astraljava> It's something how the app just works.
<GridCube> mmhm
<GridCube> well its not userfriendly
<astraljava> I can admit that much, sounds like it hasn't been tested.
<astraljava> Did we have a meeting today or tomorrow?
<madnick> tomorrow
<astraljava> Ok, thanks.
<madnick> 22 UTC
<astraljava> So it's not actually even tomorrow, for me.
<madnick> :D
<madnick> Not for me either :P
<astraljava> Really? You're not in Sweden?
<madnick> 22 UTC in Sweden is 00:00
<astraljava> We're out of DST.
<madnick> oh
<madnick> 23:00
<madnick> is gthumb is to be included in 12.04, it would be wise to have an extension for xfce ready
<knome> madnick, i'm hoping ristretto is in usable state again for 12.04
<madnick> okay :)
<knome> madnick, and it seems it will, so i'd go with that
<knome> but that's only my opinion
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-29
<knome> hullo
<astraljava> o/
<knome> hey astraljava!
<knome> astraljava, i'll get you a few ping pong balls.
<astraljava> Hey thanks! :)
<knome> the first plenary is on now
<knome> you all might want to follow @Xubuntu on twitter for random updates
<astraljava> Will not join.
<astraljava> I've managed to follow Twitter only through cheezburger.com.
<astraljava> *smirk*
<knome> lol
<knome> will be back later
<knome> see you!
<knome> pleia2, where are you?
<ochosi_> knome: when are the xubuntu-related sessions again?
<knome> ochosi_, scheduled for thursday right now but we're going to get them moved
<ochosi_> knome: right, i thought there were two sessions? (or are both on thursday?)
<knome> ochosi, currently yes. the automatic scheduling is kicking in.
<ochosi> knome: ok can't really promise i can attend then... :/
<knome> ochosi, we'll definitely move the sessions
<knome> ochosi, just tell us which times work for you
<ochosi> hrm, well the morning would work best
<ochosi> everything <11.30
<knome> CET?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> k
<knome> any day or thu only?
<ochosi> well tue and wed could also work fine
<ochosi> maybe ewven better than thu
<knome> ok
<knome> same time?
<ochosi> tue and wed are better at most times of the day
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll try to get the sessions moved
<ochosi> ty
<knome> in the same room as dholbach now, so should work relatively easily
<ochosi> :)
<knome> unless the automatic scheduling kicks in again
<knome> pleia2, you probably want to send a tweet about this session
<knome> i've been in a coma in the backrow
<pleia2> I don't know how strictly applicable it is to us
<pleia2> pretty general
<knome> yeah sure but just for the twitter feed
<knome> :)
<knome> [persia] follow up with product managers of flavors to decide on dates for flavor alphas (include Nick and ubuntu-release; must be done within a week of UDS)
<knome> from the pad of the other foundations session
<knome> just FYI
<pleia2> probably don't want to flood the twitter feed *all* week ;)
<knome> actually i think we do
<pleia2> hah
<knome> at least one tweet per session would be good
<pleia2> we don't actually do a ton of packaging :\
<knome> true
<knome> just write something like "attending a session about ubuntu development videos" then :D
<ochosi> i thought micahg and mr_pouit do quite a bit of packagin?
<pleia2> alright alright
<knome> hehe, thanks
<ochosi> and hi pleia2 :)
<knome> ochosi, yeah, but development *videos*
<ochosi> right
<knome> ochosi, we most probably are not going to record videos to tell people how to package etc
<ochosi> yeah, true
<ochosi> well it's not different from ubuntu, so why should we
<knome> yeah.
<knome> we could if we had the resources but...
<pleia2> bah, hashtags
<ochosi> i'd rather actually _package something_ than do a video about it :}
<knome> ochosi, :)
<mr_pouit> package the video then :P
<ochosi> mr_pouit: lol
<ochosi> knome: have you made any kind of plans for what exactly will be discussed in the xubuntu-related meetings?
<knome> ochosi, look at the blueprint
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-xubuntu-planning
<knome> that's not exhaustive, and if you're able to participate remotely, feel free to add items
<ochosi> right, i was wondering whether that's the plan
<ochosi> that's why i asked right after i got an email about the changes to the bp
<knome> ochosi, we moved the other xubuntu session to tuesday for now at least
<knome> yup
<knome> that's it
<ochosi> ok, sounds good
<knome> we need to specify our release schedule soonish
<ochosi> idea: UI-freeze one day before final freeze :p
<knome> probably going for one or two betas only as far as the milestones go
<knome> ochosi, haha
<knome> 12CET tomorrow
<ochosi> noted
<knome> ok, going to the next plenary soon
<pleia2> http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-xubuntu-12.10-quantal-quetzal
<knome> we should add that to our website
<knome> there's no youth session today.
<knome> hey people
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2012/10/29/uds-copenhagen-day-1/
<pleia2> tsk, beat me to it
<knome> heh
<knome> so where are you?
<knome> hotel room?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> mmh
<knome> i'm thinking of going to mine too, but i'm not sure
<pleia2> I need to recharge my batteries, all this being around people is exhausting :)
<knome> somewhat yeah
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-30
<knome> pleia2, which session you going to? best loco practices at b3-m2
<knome> pleia2, i mean, right now :)
<pleia2> eek
<knome> pleia2, maybe we should say soemthing about LoCos in our xubuntu fliers
<pleia2> yeah, we can do that
<knome> has to be general if we're handing it out all over the world, but maybe there's a geed general resource that lists all the local communities
<knome> there was at least some wiki page, but is that up-to-date?
<pleia2> loco.ubuntu.com ;)
<knome> heh, right
<knome> everybody who wants to follow the xubuntu session: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21410/community-r-xubuntu-planning/
<knome> and please join #ubuntu-uds-b4-m7
<pleia2> here we are :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8138289128/
<ochosi> pleia2: oh yay :)
<ochosi> i like kalikiana's pose in combination with his shoes
<knome> huh? the plenary still hasn't started?
<knome> i'm taking a break in the hotel room, but have the live stream on on the laptop
<pleia2> it's on
<pleia2> I mean, happening
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i'm not seeing talks
<knome> is that correct?
<knome> oh right
<knome> the live stream isn't really working forme
<knome> pleia2, we should probably sit down later today and think what we want to say in the flavors plenary
<pleia2> okie
<knome> most probably to the city today, right?
<pleia2> nah, QA pizza+beer thing tonight
<pleia2> city tomorrow
<knome> aha
<knome> i'm probably seeing a friend in the city tomorrow, but we just group together
<knome> ochosi, re: not being able to see the pad, try relogging to ubuntu SSO
<ochosi> knome: yeah, did that a few times now
<knome> ochosi, does it work now?
<ochosi> nope
<micahg> you have to be an ubuntumember or in the ubuntu-etherpad group
<ochosi> there you go
<ochosi> i'm neither
<smartboyhw> ochosi, join ubuntu-etherpad
<smartboyhw> Should be easy to get approved 
<knome> ochosi, but the pad worked for you before?
<ochosi> don't think so
<knome> aha, i thought it wad as you didn't complain about not seeing it on the previous session
<knome> :P
<smartboyhw> :P
<knome> but maybe you just didn't need the agenda
<ochosi> yeah, i was wondering about that
<ochosi> but since i arrived late, it felt like it's too late to ask
<knome> should've just asked
<knome> but yeah, try to join the ubuntu-etheprad team
<ochosi> well it would've slowed down the meeting
<knome> there should be multiple moderators accepting you really quickly
<knome> not really
<ochosi> and it didn't really matter that much
<pleia2> I can approve it
<knome> haha, there you go :P
<ochosi> pleia2: ok, joined
<pleia2> there you go :)
<pjotr> mr_pouit: thanks for your quick intervention in the "showing partitions double" Thunar bug!
<pjotr> Have you any idea when your fix will be accepted into quantal-proposed?
<mr_pouit> people are probably too busy this week because of the uds, so next week I think
<pjotr> Great!
<mr_pouit> I put the packages im my ppa if you can't wait and want to test them before that
<pjotr> where can I find your ppa, and what are the names of the packages?
<mr_pouit> https://launchpad.net/~mrpouit/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=quantal
<pjotr> Thanks! I'll test and let you know.
<pjotr> By the way, yesterday I launched a popularity poll on the Dutch Ubuntu forum, concerning usage of Ubuntu and official derivatives: http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/algemeen-42/peiling-welke-ubuntuversie%28s%29-gebruik-je/
<pjotr> With 47 votes cast, Xubuntu shows a stunning 25 %.  :-)
<ochosi> must be the refreshed artwork ;)
<mr_pouit> haha
<pjotr> lol
<pjotr> At least in the Dutch Ubuntu community, use of Xubuntu has risen dramatically since 11.10. And this change seems structural. So your work is being appreciated!
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/263312157784035328
<knome> micahg_mobile, we need to talk about the release schedule and the seed for R. i forgot those today
<micahg_mobile> Ok
<knome> but if it looks like you can't attend the session, let's just organize some time for it outside the sessions
<knome> at which time on thursday were you leaving again?
<pleia2> hm, was the new display dialog in a ppa yet?
<pleia2> thought someone said so in session, but it doesn't seem to be...
<knome> hurr durr
<knome> check the room logs
<knome> :]
<knome> or just ask ochosi 
<pleia2> the link I grabbed was the 4.12 ppa link
<pleia2> not there :)
<pleia2> ochosi: plz 2 help ^^
<knome> ah right!
<knome> that was that!
<pleia2> 4.12 ppa only has thuar and exo
<knome> mr_pouit promised to upload it there
<pleia2> thunar too
<knome> soonish
<pleia2> ah ok, cool
<mr_pouit> I'll upload it when there's a development release
<pleia2> thanks, just writing up the blog post for the session, need accuracy :)
<knome> yup
<knome> anyway
<knome> we're coming now
<pleia2> k
<knome> see you soon.
<pleia2> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-31
<knome> pleia2, http://pad.ubuntu.com/QBFI0rb1qH
<knome> (and others that are interested in the xubuntu plenary)
<astraljava> No granted access.
<knome> astraljava, apply to the ubuntu-etherpad team and pleia2 will approve you.
<astraljava> knome: Applied.
<pleia2> someone beat me to approving :)
<knome> pleia2, do you have the picture of our merchandise handy?
<knome> oh i see what you did there
 * knome downloads from flickr
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8138036803/ from yesterday
 * pleia2 meeting now
<astraljava> Thanks folks, and whoever is the mystery approver.
<knome> i'm about to send the slides to jorge soon, do you have any comments about them?
<astraljava> What, now?! Huuuuuh.
<astraljava> Lemme grab a cup of coffee and some sandwiches.
<knome> well yeah, the plenary is on 1,5 hours
<astraljava> Well, maybe you should have advertised this earlier than 3 hours before, then? *smirk*
<knome> i couldn't have, we didn't have the plans ready then.
<astraljava> Fine, fine. What-evah. :)
<astraljava> knome: Nah, I've got nothing. Looks good.
<knome> good
<ochosi> pleia2: are those ping-pong balls? <3
<knome> ochosi, yes!
<ochosi> awesome
<ochosi> i need some of those
<knome> ochosi, if you're coming to finland, i'll keep a few for you
<ochosi> lol
<ailo-uds> I just asked jorge about the slides. formats, etc. He just said to show up early
<ailo-uds> knome: ^
<ailo-uds> I made mine in impress, so just waiting to hear what is preferred or easiest, so I can convert
<pjotr> mr_pouit: I have tested your PPA packages for the Thunar and xfdesktop bug: your fix appears to work fine, without negative side effects (at least as far as I have experienced).
<knome> ailo-uds, i sent him both odp and pdf.
<ailo-uds> knome: Apparently the technician is the one who sorts it out. I'm gonna hand him a usb stick
<knome> yup. worksforme.
<knome> pleia2, i'm going to be interviewed about xubuntu today. is there any questions we would like myself to answer?
<knome> s/myself/me/ :P
<knome> others too^
<knome> ochosi, the google hangout videos should work, so you should both see and hear us tomorrow.
<ochosi> does it work both ways?
<ochosi> i.e. would you see/hear me as well?
<knome> ochosi, i don't think there is any way to join that session so we can see you, but we can just set up something else, like a separate google hangout
<ochosi> two google hangouts? :)
<knome> yeah.
<ochosi> we'll see how well my poor laptop handles that
<pleia2> nope
<ochosi> (also: i thought that was the point of a hangout)
<knome> pleia2, no?
<knome> pleia2, for what
<Paul_46> I might be in the wrong channel - where's a good place to head regarding xubuntu not working with cedarview? d2xx gpu's that worked in 12.04. 
<knome> what's cedarview?
<Paul_46> a atom chipset gpu
<knome> right... well, this is the right channel but i think you have the wrong people here :)
<ochosi> well, the support chan is #xubuntu
<ochosi> but i guess this is not really xubuntu-specific
<knome> right. yeah
<ochosi> so you might try any ubuntu-channel as well
<ochosi> Paul_46: ^
<Paul_46> :)
<Paul_46> a brief google search seems to suggest a mess 
<knome> ochosi, before i forget, the live stuff is here: http://video.ubuntu.com/live/
<ochosi> knome: that is for tomorrow?
<knome> ochosi, and the plenary today.
<ochosi> btw, we can also do an unofficial hangout
<pleia2> knome: I don't have any qestions for you to answer :P
<knome> pleia2, oki
<ochosi> hm, what'll the plenary be about? anything xubuntu-relevant there?
<knome> pleia2, do you know anything about the google hangouts?
<knome> ochosi, well, the flavors plenary where i will be talking about xubuntu :)
<knome> and ailo about ubuntu studio
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> ok
<knome> ...and stgraber about edubuntu
<knome> and riddell about kubuntu
<knome> ;)
<knome> or actually i don't know if it will be stgraber or highvoltage talking for edubuntu. or both.
<pleia2> knome: I do hangouts sometimes, but I can't do them on my netbook (it's way too slow)
<ochosi> pleia2: what about doing one on pasis laptop? (with your account, since he always keeps going on about "i don't have g+" ;) )
<knome> lol
<pleia2> ochosi: not really comfortable with that, my google account is tied to everything :P
<knome> well, the thing is,
<knome> somebody has to make the notes
<ochosi> oh well
<knome> and if they fit my mental mindset, great :D
<knome> i'll put my laptop away.
<knome> see you later
<ochosi> seeya
<astraljava> pleia2: Chrome Incognito? Oh well, Pasi most likely doesn't have Chrome either. "It's too googl-ish. Nyah."
<ochosi> :}
<mr_pouit> "tip: use pcmanfm"
<mr_pouit> what kind of tip is that
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> was also wondering about that
<ochosi> and maybe ubuntu should look into using thunar over nautilus :)
<ochosi> the only thing it doesn't do atm is searc
<knome> astraljava, actually, i don't :D
<pleia2> knome: all ready? :)
<knome> pleia2, yeah, we're in the auditorium and jorge is just taking the slides to IS
<ochosi> arr, no usb stick in da house
<astraljava> I just got a replacement. I ordered one that looks vaguely like a key months ago. When it arrived, it operated, but rather slowly. A few weeks after that I got mail saying the manufacturer had shipped faulty ones, and they needed delivery addresses so that they could send out new ones. But I forgot it home. Wouldn't help you here, though.
<astraljava> No idea why I even said this. I guess it's the fever.
<astraljava> And only now I realized this isn't -ot. Oh well, let's spam some more while we're at it.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> hm, still no strweam
<ochosi> -w
<ochosi> ok, stream is on now
<smartboyhw> Anyone give me the stream?
<ochosi> lol, nobody wants those speakers it seems :)
<ochosi> http://video.ubuntu.com:8080/stream.flv
<ochosi> hey bluesabre_ 
<bluesabre_> hey ochosi
<ochosi> i guess you got notified as well, but did you look at the patch for parole?
<bluesabre_> Not yet
<ochosi> ok, np
<ochosi> i quickly tested it
<smartboyhw> Good now I got the stream
<ochosi> i mean it's just about putting an xv-option in the prefs
<bluesabre_> yeah
<bluesabre_> that could be handy
<ochosi> i agree
<ochosi> wondering whether there's anything else we'd wanna put there
<ochosi> but we can talk about that later, depending on when you have time
<bluesabre_> Yeah, it's been hectic around here lately with getting anything done
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> probably even better to finish off the display-dialog first
 * smartboyhw is watching knome's session
<ochosi> knome shaved :)
<smartboyhw> LOL
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8141508970/
<knome> ochosi, you mean after yesterday?
<knome> the hp-sponsored cake is not a lie!
<smartboyhw> knome, good speech:D
<knome> thanks
<knome> i hope i didn't go too fast, but as you noticed, there wasn't any time left even for the questions:P
<smartboyhw> knome, :P actually nobody asked any questions at all right?
<knome> smartboyhw, no, because they didn't have time for it.
<knome> smartboyhw, i used all the time i was given
<smartboyhw> knome, hmm.....quite bad eh? 
<knome> not really.
<knome> they can just join our session.
<smartboyhw> knome, when is your session?
 * smartboyhw doesn't know:P
<knome> i mean, they gave us 7 minutes to communicate with the wider audience, why not use as much of it to communicate what WE want to say?
<knome> what session?
<smartboyhw> knome, you said "they can just join 'our' session" so "our session" = ?
<smartboyhw> Anyway I will find it myself
<knome> smartboyhw, it's the xubuntu session at noon tomorrow
<smartboyhw> Noon? Oh no then I can't join
<knome> noon CET
<smartboyhw> knome, yes I can't join...
<ochosi> finally on 12.10
#xubuntu-devel 2012-11-01
<knome> ochosi, mr_pouit: would you be able to join us if we did an informal meeting earlier or later?
<knome> i hope our scheduled time slot is fine for micah.
<knome> i would be okay with setting up an informal meeting at 10 CET
<ochosi> knome: yes, that would work for me. later wouldn't
<knome> pleia2, you have a session for the next time slot?
<pleia2> knome: no, but I need to spend at least half of it prepping for my lightning talk
<knome> pleia2, maybe you could use the other half for discussing the artwork/marketingish stuff
<pleia2> sure, meet somewhere at 10:30?
<knome> at the tables we were hacking on the plenary talk?
<knome> i think i'm just going to skip the next sessions so i'll just sit around there
<pleia2> sure
<knome> i need something to make me less dehydrated
<ochosi> ok, so 10.30 - 11.00?
<knome> ochosi, yeah
<ochosi> k, worksforme
<knome> ochosi, i'll be around from 10 in irc too
<knome> i'm not sure if a google hangout is doable, but maybe we can just chat in irc
<ochosi> thunar1.5.1 and xfsettings4.11.0 are ready in mr_pouit's ppa
<knome> aha, great
<ochosi> you should test it
<ochosi> thunar is lightning fast again
<ochosi> i mean really: like it was before the port to gio :}
<knome> i think i'll leave that for home
<ochosi>  /begin-unofficial-meeting
<knome> lol
<knome> so, is there something specific you want to discuss?
<ochosi> yeah, in fact the disc-size problem
<knome> yep
<ochosi> because it affects much of what we wanna do with artwork
<knome> micah would be useful here
<ochosi> yeah, true
<ochosi> but you can later argue that with him :)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> so, point is
<micahg_mobile> Well,I was thinking to look and see of we can port to python3
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> if we want new/more artwork (dark themes, wallpapers), we need more space on the disc
<knome> that would definitely be nice
<ochosi> in fact our icon-theme will most likely need more space in 13.04
<ochosi> because we'll implement a script by NSchermer to convert it to png
<satya164> themes are in kbs
<ochosi> which makes it faster
<satya164> wallpapers need a lot of space
<ochosi> satya164: for dark themes, we need icon-themes that work with them
<satya164> and we need wallpapers in different resolutions too
<zequence> How about a post install task, to add stuff that was not absolutely needed for a networkless install, but would be nice to have?
<ochosi> so that's something that goes hand-in-hand for me
<zequence> ..at first login
<satya164> ochosi: rigt!
<ochosi> zequence: yeah, that's one option
<satya164> right
<ochosi> but doing post-install scripts is a nice source for bugs
<knome> yeah
<zequence> I've seen Ubuntu sometimes does that to add some language files
<knome> satya164, we don't need wallpaper for different sizes
<knome> satya164, just shipping one big one is good
<satya164> there are monitors of diff sizes, so...
<ochosi> yeah, but ideally xfdesktop will take care of that
<knome> yes.
<satya164> yeah right, only if it is a simple one
<ochosi> we can test how they look in diff res before
<micahg_mobile> We can also evaluate the default list of Xfce components to see if we want to ship them all
<ochosi> so it's not that problematic
<satya164> wallpapers will text will look odd if scaled
<satya164> ok
<ochosi> micahg_mobile: is there anything you're thinking of right now?
<knome> i would like to do a complete check of the xubuntu ISO  seed this cycle
<micahg_mobile> No
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> i can only think of panel-plugins
<ochosi> but those are too small to matter
<knome> i mean, just go through it item by item and see if we need those
<micahg_mobile> Yes
<ochosi> what would be nice:
<ochosi> a list of our core components incl size on disc
<knome> right
<ochosi> just for everyone to be able to discuss on the same basis
<knome> with all dependencies or by package?
<ochosi> otherwise it's random finger-pointing at components that are supposedly heavy
<knome> i mean, when dependencies overlap...
<ochosi> yeah, that's hard to say
<ochosi> looking at you, mozilla
<pleia2> hehe
<ochosi> prolly ff and tb should be treated as one
<ochosi> getting rid of just one of them doesn't make too much sense anyway
<knome> unless somebody wants to do something like a virtual ISO size calculator
<knome> bluesabre, just sayin'!
<knome> it shouldn't be that hard
<ochosi> how much do we save by dropping python2
<knome> a few whales
<satya164> whales?
<knome> j/k
<ochosi> ok, that's what i meant by: we need numbers! :)
<pleia2> I asked how big a whale was, knome motioned "big" with his hands
<ochosi> haha
<knome> well the problem in Q was gtk2/3 and python 2/3, so it can't be like 2MB only
<ochosi> also
<knome> have fun calculating the dependencies :]
<ochosi> what about the apps we dropped this time?
<ochosi> gimp, ...
<pleia2> yay, micahg is here
<ochosi> are we going to bring them back immediately?
<ochosi> anyway, for me it's important to know so that i know what to invest my time in, artwork-wise
<satya164> so there is not a page containing all specifications for ringtail?
<ochosi> i can also try to come up with numbers on my end, btw
<bluesabre> I think it's time to pick up shotwell and replace gthumb and ristretto
<bluesabre> ;)
<pleia2> satya164: the specs are what we're defining right now :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: isn't shotwell a bit heavy for simple viewing? (agreed that for browsing/organising it's great)
<bluesabre> it has a lightweight viewer that comes with it
<pleia2> it's not even good for simple viewing
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> didnt know there was a simple viewer
<satya164> pleia2: I mean we need to have an index in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Raring/
<pleia2> micahg says shotwell is too heavy, that's why ubuntu kept eog
<knome> we should keep ristretto
<knome> satya164, that's why we are here, to build the roadmap
<satya164> knome: ok
<smartboyhw> Hi knome pleia2 
<bluesabre> ok, no shotwell, but here is that viewer :) http://imagebin.org/234154
 * smartboyhw thinks he can remotely come to the Xubuntu planning session now:P
<ochosi> hm, so a quick question round for you guys:
<pleia2> bluesabre: how is that launched?
<ochosi> 1) is everyone happy with our default icon theme? (looking at faenza mostly as alternative)
<bluesabre> pleia2: It can be set as the default viewer, and it's available from the right-click menu on an image
<ochosi> 2) do we want to have more gtk-themes installed by default?
<pleia2> I think images need to be added to the shotwell album and all that, shotwell is crazy slow on my netbook so I can't really use it for quick opening of images
<knome> ochosi, we just dropped some!
<bluesabre> ah
<ochosi> knome: yes, because they were unmaintained
<satya164> ochosi: the current one matches more with Greybird
<ochosi> i'm talking about getting ones that are maintained and have perfect gtk2/3
<bluesabre> I've had issues in the past with ristretto failing out on some images (especially svg)
<knome> are there such?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> even satya has a few we might think about
<bluesabre> and gthumb is just an image browser, not really a image library manager
<ochosi> bluesabre: yes, that's a known issue
<knome> bluesabre, report a bug
<ochosi> gthumb is mainly there for browsing camera's that use libgphoto (or what it's called)
<pleia2> micahg says we should fix ristretto to support svg :)
<astraljava> Do we need to _have_ an image library manager by default?
<ochosi> actually i think we don't
<ochosi> but as i said
<bluesabre> no, not really
<ochosi> the reason isn't image-library management
<ochosi> it's support for cameras
<pleia2> I don't use it
<ochosi> so if we can all agree that's not functionality that we need _by default_, it'll be easy to drop it
<ochosi> (i also don't use it, i don't even know anyone who has a camera that needs that)
<astraljava> Hmm... I always rather copy the images from the mem cards to HDD before looking at them, so I guess this discussion isn't what I'm looking for (/me makes jedi gestures)
<satya164> knome: I propose to include http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Evolve-GTK3-Theme-264780816 and http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Cream-GTK3-Theme-334006701
<satya164> though http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Cream-GTK3-Theme-334006701 is a work in progress
<ochosi> astraljava: even browsing them on sd cards works with ristretto. it's just about importing fotos via some canon-format or smthg like that
<satya164> ochosi: even if I had a camera, i will just copy the iimages to hdd
<ochosi> yes, but for copying you need something that supports libgphoto!!! :)
<satya164> may be professional photographers need that
<bluesabre> ochosi: for anything like that, you'd need ufraw
<ochosi> that's what gthumb is good for
<astraljava> ochosi: You do? Aren't the SD cards just some vfat filesystem?
<ochosi> arrrr, it's for cameras that don't get mounted as mass-storage device and that for ppl who at the same time don't have a cardreader
<astraljava> Right.
<satya164> ochosi: oh... didn't know
<astraljava> Well, they can always install additional apps, IMNSHO. :)
<ochosi> but i'm all for dropping gthumb, it just has to be for the right reasons
<satya164> ochosi: we cannot support evrything!
<ochosi> yeah, i agree! :)
<ochosi> and as i said, let's drop it
<ochosi> ok, so any more voices on the themes satya164 proposed?`(i'm for them btw)
<ochosi> and general opinions about getting more themes that work?
<ochosi> (currently: blackbird, bluebird, greybird, albatross)
<ochosi> note: they're all blue
<bluesabre> evolve looks really similar to greybird
<ochosi> that's true
<ochosi> satya164: what about orion btw?
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: hf!
<satya164> bluesabre: tru
<satya164> ochosi: haven't updated Orion
<satya164> ochosi: will try to do it within a week
<satya164> ochosi: Orion already has a xfwm theme
<ochosi> yeah, no rush
<ochosi> target is 13.04 ;)
<ochosi> do you have a link to orion?
<satya164> ochosi: yeah, but I'm already flooded with comments and emails asking about update
<ochosi> k
<satya164> http://satya164.deviantart.com/gallery/33387415
<satya164> ochosi: my ppa status says, Orion is the most popular theme by me
<satya164> http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Orion-GTK3-Theme-281431756?q=gallery%3Asatya164%2F33387415&qo=6
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> i mean the colorscheme is again very close to greybird
<satya164> ochosi: it's a lot lighter
<ochosi> yeah, that's true
<satya164> ochosi: I can change it if you prefer
<ochosi> yeah we can discuss it during the cycle
<satya164> ochosi: I'll do it while porting
<ochosi> it's just about the highlight.color
<ochosi> the rest isn't too similar
<satya164> ochosi: yeah. we can perhaps use purple?
<Unit193> Heh, you like "action" buttons (title buttons) on the left.
<satya164> Unit193: I'm accustomed to it
<ochosi> yeah, purple would work well i guess
<satya164> as menus and most thing are in left, I don't have to travel to far right
<ochosi> i don't use window-buttons very much
<ochosi> i'm more a kb-guy
<satya164> :)
<ochosi> anyway, ppl can easily change the layout of that in xfce
<satya164> ok. I'm gotta go
<ochosi> yeah, in fact me too
<satya164> have to go to arrange sponsorship for my college seminar
<ochosi> have fun you UDS people, even though you're all zoned-out now it seems!
<ochosi> satya164: ok good luck!
<satya164> :)
<satya164> bye
<satya164> thanks
<knome> heh yeah
<knome> sorry
<Unit193> ochosi: I think they are generally zoned out.
<knome> true.
 * astraljava doesn't like zones
<ochosi> ok, i'm off
<ochosi> have fun everyone and talk to you later
<knome> see you
<smartboyhw> Gee session starting in 1 minute
<pleia2> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/
<pleia2> These are distributions of Ubuntu/Xubuntu Linux modified to work on the Joggler by Jools Wills (buzz [at] exotica.org.uk).
<GridCube> oh that looks nice
<GridCube> i wonder if that would work on my netbook :P
<ashNOP> hi, i have one problem, when run own compiled xfwm4 get this error: (xfwm4:5202): xfwm4-WARNING **: Missing defaults file. Can i fix it?
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> how did today's xubuntu-session go?
<elfy> I think it went ok ochosi 
<Unit193> I ended up staying up for it after all.
<ochosi> any decisions?
<Unit193> Yes, you have 5 work items.
<ochosi> woot?
<elfy> ochosi: 5 work items - each being a sub set of 10 other items
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> no, in all seriousness, is there a transcript or a summary?
<elfy> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21409/xubuntu-general-planning-for-r/
<elfy> not sure if there was anything else in other sessions  - that's the only one I got to 
<Unit193> The etherpad, there is a summery link in that, and audio may have been recorded?
<ochosi> mm, seems fine
<elfy> I think the audio will turn up eventually - that's if it's like last one 
<GridCube> Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.
<GridCube> :(
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8145973750/
<pleia2> haz party :)
<ochosi> nice
#xubuntu-devel 2012-11-02
<ashNOP> hi, using thunar 1.5.1 from ppa i notice there is no feature to back or forward with mouse additional buttons, like previous versions. It's bug or some kind of feature of new version?
<GridCube> bug 1069207
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1069207 in alacarte (Ubuntu) "Unable to edit or add items to main menu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069207
<GridCube> :/ 
<GridCube> alacarte saves applications.menu, and xfce wants xfce-applications.menu
<mr_pouit> I guess they decided to ignore XDG_MENU_PREFIX
<GridCube> so we are now shipping alacarte, which doesnt work on amd64 machines
<mr_pouit> it's the same on i386
<GridCube> oh, i've heard it happening only on amd64 machines, people with x86 was free
<bluesabre_> hi everyone!
<elfy> hi bluesabre_ 
<bluesabre_> hey elfy!
<bluesabre_> how are you today?
<elfy> I'm good thanks - you?
<bluesabre_> internal network is down in the office, so I can be chatty
<bluesabre_> :D
<elfy> ha ha ha
<astraljava> Well, apparently so is networking outwards, too.
<Unit193> GridCube: Nope, because I have i386.
<GridCube> i see
#xubuntu-devel 2012-11-03
<pleia2> knome: I think something is wonky with html generation of our docs, guide-desktop.html for instance is empty
<pleia2> (it's also possible I pulled down the wrong branch or something :))
<Unit193> bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs/  ?
<pleia2> just grabbed lp:xubuntu-docs
<Unit193> Isn't that the 2008 outdated ones?
<pleia2> no
<pleia2> the theme is quite different, and the 2008 version wouldn't be mentioning 12.04 precise :P
<Unit193> Try  lp:ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs  -  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs/quantal
<xnox> pleia2: you made me cry with your talk.... "field trip to see the computer" and no deployments "because they have no electricity"
<pleia2> xnox: it is pretty sad
<xnox> pleia2: I think between all my gadgets I had 12 CPU cores in my bag during your talk =/
<pleia2> I was carrying a few the day we visited that school, was tempting to pull out my netbook there but I think it would have caused the teachers more chaos than it was worth
<xnox> pleia2: yeah.... that would be a bit cruel.
<xnox> pleia2: how does it feel to be gods? Heck, after all, we do spin up clouds these days...
<pleia2> xnox: I meant to show the kids a computer, not to show off
<pleia2> chaos in that they would all be fighting to use it
<xnox> pleia2: yeah, I got that.
<pleia2> I don't think that would be "cruel" :\
<pleia2> just didn't want to interrupt lessons
<xnox> pleia2: but it would be a shock. Well they would not be able to keep it.
<xnox> pleia2: nore use it. I am guessing if they go to school that has no electricity, their homes don't have electric either.
<pleia2> I don't think exposing kids to technology is cruel, any exposure is good even if they can't keep it for themselves
<xnox> ack.
<pleia2> I had plenty of exposure to computers as a kid before we had one at home, or one that I could use at school, mostly at friend's houses and things
<pleia2> I was thankful for the opportunities I had :)
<xnox> yeah... =)
<pleia2> Unit193: that worked better, thanks
<Unit193> Sure, I'm pulling in the raring one, but I don't know what one we'd actually be working on or I'd switch to that.
<knome> did somebody update the xubuntu summary for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-R/Summaries ? <3
<knome> just a note for everybody developing xubuntu
<knome> in the R cycle, most of the freezes are later than previously, but getting freeze exceptions is harder
<knome> so please MAKE SURE you have your work done WELL BEFORE THE FREEZES
<Unit193> So with automated testing, does that mean human testing will be harder?
<knome> Unit193, nope.
<Unit193> Deja vu.
<Unit193> Alright, my guess was so because it's already doing the basics, but I know it does't have eyes.
<knome> yeah, and there's no reason to make human testing harder
<Unit193> Thinking that it would be pointless to duplicate work, but alrightyo.
<knome> i can't see how that would be a problem
<knome> in testing, the more tests you can do with different setups... the better
<Unit193> Cool.
<Unit193> Updated sync script.
<knome> should get something to eat
<Unit193> I already checked, there's only the banana bread.  (Which is rather good)
<knome> we have lots of food in the fridge
<astraljava> Yeah but your fridge isn't here.
<Unit193> Nor here.
<ochosi> knome: wb from uds!
<knome> thanks!
<Unit193> [xubuntu-team] See if we ship the Pidgin IRC client by default: TODO   We already ship pidgin IM client by default unit193@Sigma:~$ apt-cache show pidgin | grep Task  >  Task: xubuntu-desktop, lubuntu-desktop
<knome> GridCube, you still up to writing the top faq for 12.10?
<GridCube> knome, I've asked several times for help on topics
<knome> GridCube, i know
<GridCube> no answer whatsoever, i've been seen recuring questions lately tho
<knome> GridCube, we all have a bit more time now
<knome> GridCube, and less stress over the release :)
<GridCube> the ones about gigolo for example
<GridCube> :) ok ill ask again
<knome> maybe you could send an email to the -devel list?
<knome> i'll try to follow up ASAP
<Unit193> Covered by release notes, but you still get the indicator and dupe ones.
<knome> we can definitely add stuff that's been in the release notes, since some people just dismiss them anyway
<knome> ailo, old nick :)
<Unit193> Seen the non-PAE issue a few times, but pretty sure none were in #xubuntu >_>
<GridCube> ive seen it in xubuntu aswel
<GridCube> oh. i meant the new bios replacement, not non pae
<GridCube> that uefi thing
<GridCube> that might need a whole article by itself
<GridCube> pointing the gazillion manuals and stuffs it needs to work most of the time
<knome> maybe, but maybe not from xubuntu
<GridCube> true that
<GridCube> as said, not particularly a xubuntu thing, its a huge ubuntu thing though
<knome> yup, some ubuntu docs people should step up for that maybe
<Unit193> knome: See comment above about pidgin?
<knome> Unit193, does that mean IRC is supported by default?
<knome> Unit193, i mean we knew we ship pidgin, but irc...
<Unit193> It works pretty much as well as it's going to with IRC.
<knome> oki
<knome> i can't remember why we wanted to check that
<knome> but ok :D
<knome> Unit193, can you add your own nick to the work item and mark it done? :P
<knome> Unit193, and maybe add information in the roadmap that we have "pidgin with irc" in the def apps section
<GridCube> mister k, do i send the mail to users aswel?
<knome> GridCube, hmh, i'd say devel only for now
<GridCube> kay
<knome> but feel free to send -users too if you think it's useful
 * knome thinks that people can the micro-level decision making themselves too :)
<GridCube> knome, do i link them to the pad http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/QyW3FDrQcv ?
<GridCube> oh... it seems down
<knome> whatever you see fit
<GridCube> it doesnt seem to work so i wont use it, people should just post to the mailing list
<knome> yep
<Unit193> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-development Done, but the other?
<knome> Unit193, i can do that
<GridCube> As like the past few releases we are compiling a FAQ for our website.
<GridCube> This release brings many new things, with the inclusion of xfce 4.10 and the slightly hard problems of compatibility between xfce using gtk2 and mainbuntu using mainly gtk3.
<GridCube> If you have any tip or recurrent circumstance you happen to know how to solve, and think that might help new comers please share it with us.
<GridCube> Its easy to oversee things when you are used to a system, things we might have internalized as a procedural might not be so obvious to others. If you feel like you know something that can help the community we are here so asking you to share it :D.
<GridCube> Thanks for your time.
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> fail paste
<Unit193> knome: Alright, I don't remember where the roadmap is, and don't have FF open.
<knome> Unit193, did that already. and it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ :)
<Unit193> Thanks.
<GridCube> well its here now, do you think thats ok? i just dont like to post things whitout consulting
<knome> GridCube, that looks fine
<GridCube> good
#xubuntu-devel 2012-11-04
<micahg> Unit193: what's the question of pidgin IRC?  we ship pidgin, so we ship the IRC client
<Unit193> micahg: Exactly, that was my point exactly.
<micahg> ah, you marked it done?
<Unit193> As I was told, yes sir!
<knome> micahg, we discussed about it in UDS, but i can't remember why we didn't know if we have IRC or why would need to know...
<mr_pouit> if pidgin-irc is good, then we can drop xchat. I guess that was the point of the work item, wasn't it?
<knome> probably
<knome> micahg, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2obH7ugvIsQ :]
<knome> err, mr_pouit too
<mr_pouit> I'm sure you're trying to rickroll me
<knome> of course.
<knome> or knomeroll
<knome> :P
<mr_pouit> nice
<knome> is it? (:
<knome> i need some food
<astraljava> Yay! knomerolling
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-28
<brainwash> should I bother releasing a patch for users-admin to fix the "harmless" segfault on exit and cleanup some critical warnings? It looks like nobody cares about users-admin aynway
<brainwash> it looks like quite some work to verify the changes and release a fixed package
<knome> brainwash, we're still using that.
<Noskcaj> skellat: you pinged?
<Noskcaj> micahg: I didn't expect all of 4.11, i was just saying it would be far easier if it was all in experimental
<Noskcaj> micahg: do you think i've done enough to apply for MOTU and/or xubuntu dev
<Noskcaj> and one last thing, can you review my merge of xfce4-session?
<micahg> Noskcaj: far easier for what
<Noskcaj> For seeing what we want
<Noskcaj> and if it's stable
<micahg> Noskcaj: it's less about quantity than quality + experience, I'd need to review your latest stuff to tell you
<micahg> Noskcaj: merge, probably tomorrow
 * micahg is trying to finish up some work ATM
<Noskcaj> ok, https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/4.10.1-3 is my merge
<Noskcaj> If there's anything i can do to help, let me know. All my stuff is done 
<brainwash> there are still some changes pending for xubuntu-default-settings, low priority, but already 1 months old
<brainwash> month
<Noskcaj> Can we add http://www.thecodingstudio.com/?linux&release=Xubuntu%2013.10 to the "in the press" webpage
<Noskcaj> brainwash, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10395 has a patch now
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10395 in General "Terminal crashes when opening the encoding submenu" [Normal,New]
<Noskcaj> bug 1206739 being the original
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
<Noskcaj> bug 1245355
<ubottu> bug 1245355 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "New pop-up notification panel triggered by xfce4-display-settings blocks view and access" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245355
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i've gone through your prefs-docs, looks good so far! the remove-duplicates bug was recently fixed by bluesabre, so hope you can then update that part
<slickymaster> good morning all
<ochosi> hey slickymaster 
<ochosi> nice work on the terminal-options, just read through that a bit earlier today
<ochosi> the formatting has to be adjusted to fit the xfce-docs, but other than that it's the right direction!
<slickymaster> ochosi: good monrning
<slickymaster> ochosi: that's good. So, in your opinion, is any fix required?
<ochosi> slickymaster: apart from the formatting (using "?" and "!" for the indentation) it looks good
<ochosi> haven't had time to look what plugin of dokuwiki does that on xfce.org
<slickymaster> ochosi: that's my problem. I didn't manage to find in dokuwiki either
<slickymaster> find it ^^
<ochosi> yeah, no problem though
<slickymaster> ochosi: me and jjfrv8 decide to split the Usage section and I wanted to ask something
<slickymaster> I'm going to insert a few screenshots and I'm in doubt as to the size to use
<ochosi> bluesabre: could you please add this plugin to your dokuwiki installation? http://git.xfce.org/www/wiki.xfce.org/tree/lib/plugins/dl
<ochosi> bluesabre: it should fix the missing stuff like "?" and "!" for the terminal-options page
<ochosi> slickymaster: so i just found the missing plugin ^
<slickymaster> ochosi: Yeah :)
<ochosi> slickymaster: for the screenshots-size i'd say not much more than the screenshots here: http://docs.xfce.org/apps/terminal/preferences
<ochosi> and generally speaking not more size than needed
<slickymaster> ochosi: thanks, I'll follow the Terminal's ones as reference. And as soon as bluesabre add the plugin I'll reformat the command-line options
<ochosi> cool, thanks for your help!
<slickymaster> ochosi: np
<bluesabre> installed, try it now
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<bluesabre> and/or slickymaster
<ochosi> oh, that was quick :)
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning
<bluesabre> just dropped in as I was getting ready for work
<ochosi> ah right, i'm also about to run out
<slickymaster> bluesabre: thanks, I'll try later on. I'm having same issues with a database here at work I need to solve
<bluesabre> ok, cool
<knome> pleia2, http://jussi01.com/2013/10/28/kubuntu-polo-shirts-update/
<slickymaster> ochosi: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=command-line is reformatted to fit the xfce-docs
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I don't know about using the gtk2-engines-xfce theme and the faenza icons for screenshots. It looks pretty bad.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, http://imagebin.org/275043
<jjfrv8> you were right about that theme not working with the playback control bar but also some of the icons are just missing.
<jjfrv8> Can we just do our own thing and make it look as close as possible to the other xfce docs?
<jjfrv8> I have to run and won't be back until maybe 21UTC but...
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, I wanted to give you that heads up before you do too many screenshots.
<jjfrv8> bbl
<leif_> evning
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, ochosi, I was planning on use the default theme and icons packed with xfce, Greybird and elementary Xfce
<ochosi> slickymaster: that's xubuntu, not xfce itself
<ochosi> jjfrv8, slickymaster: so let's just do "our thing" as jjfrv8 said. but please remain consistent with each other if both of you take screenshots
<ochosi> or lets lay out the gtk/icon-theme by ourselves
<ochosi> i think greybird and elementary-xfce is fine
<ochosi> bluesabre: what do you think? ^
<slickymaster> ochosi: Yeah, you're about those being Xubuntu and not Xfce
<slickymaster> youÂ«re righ ^^
<ochosi> sure, but nevermind, i think we need to use something that works properly
<ochosi> there is a version of the xfce engine for gtk3 though
 * slickymaster has to re-learn how to type
<ochosi> should make things look semi-normal again
<slickymaster> ochosi: maybe we should wait for bluesabre view on the subject
<ochosi> yeah
<slickymaster> ochosi: has long as you're here, I've already corrected the indentation format in the command-line options section
<ochosi> slickymaster: ncice, will check in a minute
<pleia2> knome: do we want polos in addition to tshirts? (I don't wear polos, so I hadn't put much thought into them)
<knome> pleia2, i was mostly referring to the shipping/production model
<pleia2> oh :)
<elfy> hi knome pleia2 
<knome> allÃ¶ elfy
<ochosi> slickymaster: as --xv needs =true/false i'd add that to remain consistent with e.g. --display=DISPLAY
<ochosi> slickymaster: the rest looks good! after bluesabre has time to take a look at it i'd say this part is finished
<leif_> evning
<elfy> evening leif_ 
<leif_> hey
<leif_> new user here
<elfy> hi then :)
<leif_> :)
<leif_> still upgrading my lts 
<knome> leif_, before you go further; if you have support questions or something related to that, please remember that #xubuntu is the right channel for that
<leif_> ok
<leif_> :)
<leif_> thanks
<leif_> a technical quistion does x ubuntu use the translation from ubuntu
<knome> leif_, that kind of counts as a support question, but the answer is yes, where applicable
<leif_> ok
<leif_> is helping whit the translations on ubuntu
<elfy> which is something you could talk about here ;)
<ochosi> too late :>
<knome> nah, he's reappeared in #xubuntu
<ochosi> so there are still people who can only be in one place at one time?
<knome> haha
<knome> no
<knome> he was in both, but only rejoined #x after /quit
<brainwash> ochosi: so setting the required xwindowproperity (lightdm-gtk-greeter) and a simple rebuild of xfwm4 with the flag to enable background cloning would be the best solution, right?
<brainwash> the user could use another display manager or lightdm greeter though
<elfy> hi Noskcaj - you still going to be doing the social thing ? "I'd like to be the xubuntu representative unless elfy wants to." 
<elfy> if you're not can you let me know please 
<Noskcaj> Nothing has happened for that and i've not had the time/motivation for it.
<elfy> I know that - if you're not going to do it if it comes up that's fine - I'd rather we just got on and did what we wanted for us anyway
<knome> social what? :)
<elfy> knome: it's referenced in the trusty plan ;) http://pad.ubuntu.com/SdHxBbkLTO
<elfy> personally I think we'd be better doing it ourselves in the way we want when we want 
<elfy> I just want to either have an item to add to blueprint for Noskcaj or to not have one
<knome> elfy, is that integrated to the roadmap wikipage?
<elfy> not at present
<knome> ok, no hurries; we can do that sometime before thu's meeting
<elfy> knome: hang on - the social thing or the trusty plan ?
<knome> elfy, the outline of the trusty QA plan
<knome> elfy, we will create more specific blueprints later, which should then have all the details / work items
<elfy> there is a barebones outline there
<knome> yeah, i've noticed that; linking the QA pad wouldn't hurt i'd say
<elfy> was doing that :)
<elfy> but I'll get at that page prior to the meeting as well
<knome> sure
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi, slickymaster: I'd be fine with that.  I think its interesting that xfce.org uses Greybird and Faenza, but they say only Xfce themes for the docs
<brainwash> bluesabre: added a comment to bug 1232804, what do you think?
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<ochosi> brainwash: will test your patch asap
<ochosi> thanks for looking into this issue
<brainwash> ochosi: the patch is just a minimal approach, proof of concept
<brainwash> and you need to rebuild xfwm4 ofc
<ochosi> yeah, but i use it built from git anyway
<brainwash> still requires a rebuild :)
<ochosi> sure sure
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-29
<ochosi> well i also need to rebuild the greeter
<brainwash> however, you did not notice the flicker anyway, so you won't see any difference
<brainwash> or?
<ochosi> well i see *some* screen-corruption
<ochosi> it's not a clearly grey background
<ochosi> so i can see whether your patch improves my situation
<ochosi> i assume it works for you?
<brainwash> uhm, I did not test this patch in particular
<ochosi> you mean you didn't test your own patch? :D
<brainwash> I messed around with the code and created the patch afterwards from scratch
<brainwash> the idea is still the same
<ochosi> well i'd say it's more useful if *you* test it than if *i* do
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> yeah, I guess
<brainwash> didn't want to release a diff of my local greeter copy
<ochosi> and anyway, posting patches that you didnt test yourself is only useful if you can't reproduce a bug
<ochosi> sure, but why not clean it up locally and test it before uploading the patch to lp?
<brainwash> it's not meant to be a final patch, work in progress
<ochosi> sure, still
<brainwash> I'll test it, it's nothing complex anyway and the idea should be clear
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> agreed to that
<brainwash> but still, it will only work if the user actually uses the lightdm gtk greeter
<ochosi> yeah, but i thought we're trying to resolve this specifically for xubuntu
<ochosi> then we can see whether other distros pick it up
<jjfrv8> ochosi, bluesabre, slickymaster, just to nail down this screenshot thing, I thought I would note all the details in a draft on the wiki. http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
<jjfrv8> Judging by what's been discussed so far, I think the only thing left to decide is whether to use a custom highlight color or not.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: well done!
<jjfrv8> I was using a darker color than the default to try to make it match the xfce stuff a little closer.
<ochosi> yeah, i don't have a particular preference here. but if we do use a custom highlight-color, we should note it's hex-color-value so ppl without gtk-theme-config can easily reproduce it
<jjfrv8> good point
 * Unit193 wonders if he should get brainwash to figure out the bug he found with xfwm.
<pleia2> oh goodie, will brainwash fix all the things?
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, if you can give us your vote on the draft, then I guess we can proceed. Tell me if I'm off base about the file size thing, too.
 * ochosi hopes so
<bluesabre> I certainly hope that brainwash takes the title "official fixer"
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: yeah, I wonder if we should have the latest elementary-xfce and greybird for best support?
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<brainwash> tzzzz
<ochosi> bluesabre: latest as opposed to what? version from S?
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, tested now
<ochosi> brainwash: so it works?
<brainwash> it appears to work
<bluesabre> maybe, I know the icon theme at least has minor fixes like document-open-symbolic, repeat, shuffle
<ochosi> hm true
<ochosi> then let's use the git-version always
<brainwash> ochosi: well, no compile errors and so on, and no flicker after login
<ochosi> parole will always be a first-class citizen in elementary-xfce anyways
<ochosi> brainwash: sounds promising!
<ochosi> brainwash: i'll give it a shot asap then
<brainwash> no need to hurry
<bluesabre> shimmer-project daily ppa? https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily
<Unit193> Anyway, to get it in the devel channel rather than offtopic (since it's now not just a crazy me issue.)  Clicking and holding onto minimize then hitting alt+tab makes xfwm hang.
<ochosi> bluesabre: +1
<brainwash> holding minimize.. why would you do that? :D
<bluesabre> oh, nice find Unit193
<bluesabre> and darn it, you froze my xfwm
<Unit193> brainwash: Actually, I even dragged it to the center of the screen then hit alt+tab the first time. :P  Answer: I don't exactly know, it was late at night and I didn't want to minimize it anymore.
<Unit193> bluesabre: TTY, killall and it'll respawn fine.
<brainwash> it does not freeze for me
<ochosi> brainwash: how does the compile-option for xfwm4 look like exactly?
<brainwash> ochosi: config.h, #define MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP 1
<ochosi> ok, will see whether it changes anything for me
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> brainwash: doesn't seem to work for me. i can in fact see the grey bg now :)
<ochosi> but it might be due to other components being from git, like xfdesktop etc
<ochosi> anyway, time to go to sleep
<ochosi> night everyone!
<brainwash> good night
<jjfrv8> night, ochosi 
<ochosi> brainwash: as soon as i get a chance, i'll re-test this in a cleaner env
<ochosi> (might not be tomorrow though)
<brainwash> ochosi: make sure  #define MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP 1  does not get overwritten
<ochosi> well yeah, just now it becomes clear to me that editing config.h is pointless
<brainwash> it's a generated file :D
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> see, i'm too tired for this s***
<brainwash> Unit193: oh right, I'm using a custom built xfwm4 version, maybe that's the reason I cannot reproduce the freeze
<ochosi> brainwash: so why not add to the bugreport how to build xfwm4 exactly so that also tired ppl can do it? :]
<brainwash> read the autotools manual :)
<brainwash> maybe that a good opportunity for me to learn how to setup a PPA
<brainwash> mmh
<Unit193> brainwash: Rolling from git right?  So pointless to report as it's already fixored.  Gotcha.
<brainwash> Unit193: probably, well, go ahead and test it
<brainwash> Unit193: default xfwm4 shipped by saucy does not freeze either
<brainwash> I clicked on the minimize button and kept holding it while triggering alt-tab, nothing special happened
<Unit193> Got 2 people to confirm, 2 people deny. >_<
<brainwash> the usual procedure would be to check log files
<Unit193> brainwash: Yeeep.  dmesg, syslog, xsession-errors, and startxfce said nothing.
<Unit193> brainwash: As of late, suspend in Xfce somehow hasn't actually suspended the system, but pm-suspend works and resumes correctly it'd seem.
<Unit193> Calling it over login1: Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Failed: Operation already in progress
<slickymaster> good morning all
<knome> morning slickymaster 
<slickymaster> knome: hi, good morning
<brainwash> Unit193: right, that's bug 1184262 which nobody is able to fix, not even the mighty pitti (he isn't affected by the issue though)
<ubottu> bug 1184262 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "[logind] stuck in PrepareForSleep, causing network and other services to not resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1184262
<slickymaster> ochosi, jjfrv8, bluesabre, I've been through yesterday's log and it seems that there are no final conclusions on what theme and icons to use for http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=usage
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, I think the theme and icons have been decided on. We just need bluesabre to weigh in on the custom highlight color.
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, and bluesabre wants us to use the PPA that I put in the draft screenshot standardization document: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
<jjfrv8> And slickymaster, can you put your usage draft here? http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:slickymaster
<jjfrv8> instead of on the main wiki page.
<jjfrv8> We can combine yours and mine later after they are reviewed.
<jjfrv8> but upload your screenshots to root>wiki>usage-menu-items. That way we won't have to move them later when we move the doc pages.
<jjfrv8> does that make sense?
<brainwash> interesting request bug 1245870
<ubottu> bug 1245870 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 13.10 should be upgraded to LTS status" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245870
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: absolutely. It's clear as water :)
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, bluesabre, as soon as bluesabre has a decision on the custom highlight color we're good to go
<jjfrv8> yup
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, bluesabre, per ochosi's recommendation, I listed the custom highlight color number in the draft standards doc.
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: you'll have to send me the url to the draft standards doc
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: oh, I see. Thanks a bunch
<jjfrv8> np
<knome> bluesabre, you around?
<knome> ochosi, ?
<bluesabre> slickymaster, jjfrv8; I'm cool with the highlight color, I'll try to update my screenshots accordingly
<bluesabre> knome: yes
<knome> bluesabre, i commented on the bug and then noticed you had noticed the same thing and went over it in #shimmer. so nevermind
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> which bug?
<Unit193> The fun ones, Bug 1245355
<ubottu> bug 1245355 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "New pop-up notification panel triggered by xfce4-display-settings blocks view and access" [Wishlist,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245355
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll try to get an upstream fix on that today or tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-30
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll have to rework my patch for the greeter, because there seems to be a conflict with xfdesktop (race condition), so don't bother to test it yourself right now
<slickymaster> good morning all
<lderan> good morning slickymaster 
<slickymaster> lderan: good morning. Hope everything is fine with you
<lderan> indeed it is, and yourself?
<slickymaster> I'm alright, thnaks
<slickymaster> thanks ^Âª^
<lderan> \o/
<karpion> Hi all, I am very new to xubuntu-devel group and I'd like to contribute in some way (already read all guidelines on how to become involved as project contributor)...Could anybody tell me what are my "next steps" to do?thanks so much!
<knome> hey karpion, and thanks for your interest!
<knome> what would you like to work on?
<elfy> testing and qa ... :)
<knome> elfy, oi there ;)
<elfy> hi knome 
<ochosi> code code code? :)
<elfy> yea - I can go along with that :)
<karpion> :) I think that testing and qa are a good starting point...
<karpion> In my real life I am an embedded software engineer...not afraid by code (thanks ochosi & elfy :D)
<ochosi> nice
<knome> karpion, elfy is the right guy to talk about qa+testing, ochosi is one of the right guys to talk about development
<elfy> I'm not here though unfortunately - will be back later today and then for a week
<karpion> ok no problem..do you have any particular starting advice?
<ochosi> karpion: "scratch your itch"
<knome> karpion, with QA... get familiar with the QA trackers at iso.qa.ubuntu.com and packages.qa.ubuntu.com
<elfy> karpion: that and have a look at this for a basic rundown https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-October/004376.html
<elfy> karpion: and this if you're any good with python and fancy getting involved in creating automatic tests for us - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-October/004508.html
<elfy> but - be aware that most of what you read about automatic testing is of little use to us - most is phone stuff
<knome> we also have a #ubuntu-quality channel, which might be helping :)
<knome> *helpful too
 * elfy is now back to work 
<knome> me and elfy hang out there as well
<knome> hf elfy 
<elfy> that'd make a welcome change :p
<elfy> cya 
<knome> haha
<karpion> ok joining that too :d
<karpion> ok I'll give a look to automatic tests and try to be useful for u guys
<ochosi> karpion: great!
<ochosi> bbl
<lderan> huzzah for automatic tests :D
<lderan> got to do more on that myselj
<lderan> myself*
<brainwash> bug 1246364
<ubottu> bug 1246364 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not show a tray icon in xubuntu 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246364
<brainwash> anyone know anything about this?
<GridCube> i would assume that the update notifier its gtk3
<ochosi> GridCube: the app is gtk3, but the indicator should work with the indicator-application-gtk2 package as well (at least it used to)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/50235/ That's all I see.
<elfy> lderan: I'm going to try and spend as much time as I can find over the next week beating autopilot into submission - or if not that finding out what we can get from it
<elfy> I 'believe' the gtk2 issue is a bit more friendly now
<brainwash> the update notifier appears only in the unity sidebar
<brainwash> no indicator there also
<brainwash> but it apparently it will show as indicator, if there is a package conflict
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/947008 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 947008 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier inappropriately uses an indicator menu if xubuntu-desktop is installed" [Medium,Fix released]
<brainwash> probably
<elfy> there was no update 'notifier' thorugh much of the saucy cycle 
<brainwash> Unit193: between, take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-shim/+bug/1184262/comments/73
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1184262 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[logind] stuck in PrepareForSleep, causing network and other services to not resume" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainwash> after bothering pitti for some days he released a possible fix based on my observations
<Unit193> brainwash: I can give it a shot, I switched to alt+F2, gksudo pm-suspend as it worked, and resumes properly. (Stuck at the point where hitting suspend in the xfce dialog would tell me already in progress.)
<brainwash> right, the fix is addressing exactly this problem
<Unit193> Yep, as I said, I'll give it a shot tonight.
<Unit193> update-manager --help  heh, love the errors. :)
<brainwash> but what a mess, someone has removed all the duplicated reports earlier today and asked people to test the latest kernel version =S
<Unit193> Seemed to fail harder with the -generic kernel. :P
<lderan> elfy: if you need help with beating up autopilot let me know :)
<elfy> lderan: I'm 'still' at the 'is it even worth it' stage - though there has been work done on a gtk emulator - but whether it's of any use to us - I still don't know
<lderan> oo shall see if that helps me out at all
<lderan> do know abiword is a pain with it
<elfy> you go ahead and see if you can get anywhere with it - I'll not stop you :)
<lderan> woo
<Unit193> Sweet, a mirror!
<elfy> random
<Unit193> Not if you check -devel.
<slickymaster> bluesabre, jjfrv8_, ochosi, regarding the custom highlight color and screenshots sizes, will any of you please take a look at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:slickymaster to confirm if that's what we're aiming at?
<slickymaster> bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: adding a 1sec startup delay to xfdesktop does the trick and the desktop is loading normally with my work-in-progress patch for the greeter
<elfy> hi brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<elfy> back on a workless week again - so able to have more of an Xubuntu head on 
<brainwash> elfy: between, why did subscribe the xubu bugs team to bug 1232804 ?
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<brainwash> it's not really a bug, just an enhancement
<elfy> perhaps - I'd call it a bug if it lasts as long as it does for me :)
<brainwash> why not disable the compositor then :P
<Unit193> Use compton! :P
<brainwash> but true, this short flicker after login is driving me mad
<elfy> brainwash: mmmm 
<elfy> I could just install kde and not see it at all - not sure that's a real answer :)
<brainwash> compton will most likely create a plain background too and not copy the background
<brainwash> and we got some new trouble with abiword -> bug 1246111
<ubottu> bug 1246111 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword crashes when saving as pdf." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246111
<brainwash> saving/exporting as pdf is kinda important for some people
<elfy> brainwash: yea saw that this morning - not had time to do more than remember it
<elfy> yep agreed 
<brainwash> we could use this report as yet another argument pro libreoffice :)
<elfy> lol
<Noskcaj> And abiwords doesn't open .docx files that are in thunar
<Noskcaj> *abiword
<brainwash> libreoffice should be added to the roadmap of 14.04, so it can be discussed once again
<elfy> best add it then :) roadmap is up for discussion tomorrow PM
<elfy> I remember it coming up a shortish while back
<mikodo> Hi guys. I am assuming that 14.04 will be running on XMir if it can. Has there been any increase of help supporting the releases, so that 14.04 might be 5 year supported?
<pleia2> it'll probably be another 3 year lts, but no formal discussions have happened yet
<mikodo> pleia2, Thank you.
<pleia2> we'll do XMir testing again and see how it goes, but nowhere near any news on that
<ali1234> i wouldn't bet on even 14.04 unity using mir
<pleia2> yeah
<skellat> Ubuntu Developer Summit hasn't even happened yet!
<mikodo> OH, I have been out of the loop then.
<ali1234> not on the desktop anyway
<pleia2> it'll probably be 14.10 before anyone is tbh
<pleia2> it's not good to introduce a new major technology in an lts :)
<skellat> Lets wait for about 3 weeks to see what comes up at Ubuntu Developer Summit
<elfy> indeed not pleia2 
<elfy> didn't pulseaudio appear in 8.04 ? 
<ali1234> yeah and it was a major disaster that took until 10.04 to get properly fixed
 * elfy never had no problems with it tbh
<ali1234> then you must never have used any flash or java software
<pleia2> it all worked ok for me too, but I never did any fancy sound stuff (flash and java stuff was fine too)
<elfy> ali1234: flash was ok for me 
<elfy> all a bit offtopic - elfy slaps elfy for starting it off ... 
<pleia2> hehe
<ali1234> neither had any pulseaudio suppot so you could either have sound from flash or java or *everything else*
<ali1234> unless you are one of the lucky ones who's soundcard had hardware mixing, then it would all appear to work perfectly
<elfy> some old audigy thing - still working 10 years after I got it ... 
<ali1234> yeah, there you go then
<ali1234> anyone with onboard sound got screwed
<ali1234> ie nearly everyone
<elfy> oic - I'd never have noticed it then 
<ali1234> it's why we have !wfm
<elfy> :)
<ali1234> anyway - i'm looking at the appindicator bug since nobody else seems interested
<ali1234> i can't understand how i am supposed to debug software that uses dbus and gobject though
<brainwash> ali1234: before doing this you should file the SRU report for xfce4-terminal :P
<ali1234> what i've discovered so far is that the child-added error comes from libdbusmenu
<ali1234> it's not fixed in the current development release
<brainwash> T?
<ali1234> yeah, afaik
<ali1234> i'll add all the stuff to the bug report anyway
<brainwash> so it needs to be copied from 14.04?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i just find the bugs and fix them
<brainwash> I have no clue either
<brainwash> yeah :D
<elfy> and I for one thank anyone and everyone who does that stuff :)
<mikodo> ditto
<mikodo> I am looking forward to 14.04. (on Xorg, hehe), Thanks for your efforts. Bye now.
<Noskcaj> mr_pouit, Would you mind reviewing xfce4-session for me? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/4.10.1-3
<jjfrv8-work> slickymaster, the window title bar and menu highlights look good.  The playback control bar doesn't seem to have any contrast compared to mine in http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
<jjfrv8-work> I'm not sure where that's controlled, though. Maybe bluesabre can shed some light on that.
<jjfrv8-work> bbl as myself
<brainwash> ali1234: thanks for updating the bug report :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, ali1234: should i prepare a branch?
<Noskcaj> never mind, it's a debdiff, not a patch
<Noskcaj> so just ping micah and lionel a lot
<ochosi> brainwash: hmm, so this is quite the all-over-reaching issue. xfwm4, xfdesktop and the greeter need a patch
<ochosi> or, the session-manager needs a patch
<ochosi> i'm not sure whether there isn't a (more?) proper way to deal with this
<ochosi> i mean i'm happy if we can make this go away in xubuntu, but ideally we'd make it go away for everyone
<ali1234> what's the bug?
<ochosi> ali1234: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> i have not noticed that
<brainwash> it's not a bug
<ochosi> you're using the compositor though?
<brainwash> ochosi: it's seems to be a bit tricky, sadly
<ali1234> i have transparent terminal windows, so i guess i am?
<ali1234> maybe i just didn't notice it
<ochosi> transparency in the terminal can also be fake transparency
<ali1234> it's not
<ali1234> i hate that
<ochosi> do you have shadows?
<ochosi> :)
<ali1234> i actually use transparent terminals to refer to the window behind when a terminal is maximized
<ochosi> well the fake transparency is only ok if you don't have other windows behind
<ali1234> fake transparency is useless to me :)
<ali1234> in general i don't like eye candy that has no useful purpose
<ochosi> yeah, agreed
<ochosi> to me, shadows are useful (help distinguish windows)
<ali1234> yeah. i was thinking more of desktop cube and wobbly windows :P
<ali1234> the only thing i miss from compiz is ezoom
<ochosi> and i guess to some people even the animation to minimize windows (the geany-effect) can be helpful for first-timers to understand where the window is going
<ochosi> ezoom? expose you mean?
<ali1234> no. ezoom literally zooms into the whole screen
<ali1234> meta+mousewheel to zoom in and out
<Noskcaj> bug 1246474
<ubottu> bug 1246474 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "Sync gmusicbrowser 1.1.10-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246474
<ochosi> ah, yeah i remember that one
<ochosi> Noskcaj: good, that would be nice to get in
<ochosi> ali1234: i agree that one was very nice. unfortunately i don't see xfwm4 picking that kind of feature up anytime. and i mean anytime. not: anytime soon.
<ali1234> what if i write it myself?
<ochosi> not sure you can do it efficiently with xrender
<ochosi> but what do i know
<ochosi> it's a nice accessibility feature actually
<ali1234> yeah and it is handy for doing fake fullscreen with software that doesn't support it well (youtube, some games...)
<ali1234> youtube is mostly fixed now though
<ochosi> true, i used to use it for that too :p
<ochosi> bbiab
<slickymaster> good night all
<lderan> good night slickymaster 
<ali1234> don't kill dbus
<Unit193> Hah, yeeeeah.
<Unit193> Restarting it sometimes throws a fit.
<ali1234> so i;ve downgraded libappindicator and libdbusmenu to raring versions and the bug is still present. which means it has to be a bug in glib or gtk
<ochosi> ali1234: what bug are you referring to?
<ochosi> the sound-menu or something else?
<ali1234> bug 1203888
<ubottu> bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203888
<ali1234> aka why bluetooth indicator doesn't work
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> i don't use bt for anything, so i never noticed
<ochosi> (have it shut off in the bios)
<ali1234> it affects many other indicators too
<ali1234> and not just in xfce: everywhere
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> why haven't i heard ppl shouting about thisÃ
<ochosi> ?
<ali1234> "the desktop won't be neglected" they told me...
<ochosi> have you talked to some ayatana folks about it?
<ochosi> haha
<ali1234> i've been shouting about it for weeks :)
<ochosi> yeah, but *other* than you
<ali1234> well, i mentioned it on their irc and was completely ignored
<ali1234> the bug was reported by jbicha :/
<ochosi> :(
<ochosi> i thought ubuntu-gnome didn't use the indicators
<ochosi> don't they use their own system?
<ali1234> dunno
<ali1234> but classic does
<ali1234> maybe they have some kind of wrapper
<ochosi> hm, i see
<ochosi> no clue, i just tried u-gnome with 13.10 for the first time
<ali1234> also, plenty of people are shouting about it on the wrong bug report too
<ali1234> on our sound indicator bug
<ochosi> some things are really nice about gnome, e.g. color-management (would love to see colord-support in xfsettingsd)
<ali1234> i should put a big banner on that announcing the other bug
<ali1234> in fact i'm going to do it now
<ochosi> good idea
<brainwash> I think most people actually disable bluetooth
<ochosi> hm, possible, but if it affects multiple indicators, it should be fixed
<brainwash> yeah, luckily xubuntu doesn't support most of them anyway :P
<ali1234> yeah it does
<brainwash> can you name another example?
<ali1234> because this affects libappindicator ones, which aren't tied to a specific version of gtk, because it's all done over dbus
<brainwash> so I can have a look
<ali1234> glipper
<ali1234> if you want to see the bug in action there is a minimal testcase on the bug report
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glipper/+bug/1203888/comments/8
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged]
<ali1234> there is also a question about it on AU with 50 bounty: http://askubuntu.com/questions/364594/has-the-appindicator-or-gtkmenu-api-changed-in-saucy
<ali1234> so yeah, people have noticed
<ali1234> just not the right people unfortunately
<brainwash> ok, I guess you will manage to fix it sooner or later
<ali1234> your confidence may be misplaced. i have no idea where to even start tracing it, because everything goes over dbus i don't even know which process to look at
<brainwash> uhm, and did the maintainer already comment on this problem?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i'm not even sure who that is other than "appindicator developers in launchpad"
<ochosi> the faceless indicator-dev
<brainwash> hiding behind a generic label...
<brainwash> apparently debian's blueman package seems to work ok
<ali1234> yeah, because it is not matched for indicators, so it always uses notification icons instead
<ali1234> *patched
<ali1234> same will happen if you remove the indicator applet on xfce, and restart blueman - it will fall back to notifications
<ali1234> however, this is not possible under unity
<brainwash> does unity even use blueman?
<ali1234> not by default, but it can
<ali1234> it was nearly chosen for default at one point
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libindicate/+bug/1071940/comments/7
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1071940 in libindicate (Ubuntu) "Messaging Menu icon disappeared" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> mark it duplicate of the gtk3 bug :)
<brainwash> ah, right
<ali1234> we need to get that ppa up asap
<ali1234> it's by far the most painful bug right now
<brainwash> is it really a valid duplicate?
<ali1234> well, it's not going to get fixed any other way
<brainwash> it won't get fixed in older releases
<brainwash> right
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> at least people searching will find there way to the latest stuff
<ali1234> i think that's more important than worrying about being correct on an old bug nobody cares about
<brainwash> I really have to learn how to setup a PPA properly
<ali1234> well first you need a PGP key...
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: was your screenshot using the version of greybird from git/ppa?
<ali1234> oh, you have one ... good start
<brainwash> ali1234: yeah, got one, I just need to start reading the wiki about PPAs
<ochosi> luckily they're not that hard to set up
<ali1234> turns out you don't need to sign the CoC to do it either...
<ali1234> i never did get a satisfactory answer on why that is the case
<brainwash> same for marking reports as dupes, everyone can do that and mess up
<ali1234> oh yeah, but the PPA docs specifically say you are required to sign the CoC... but you aren't
<brainwash> ouch
<brainwash> ali1234: how about releasing packages without appindicator support?
<ali1234> that's a lot of packages
<brainwash> and it would not help the unity users
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6332940/
<brainwash> mmh
<ali1234> trying to find where that code was introduced
<ali1234> context: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/libdbusmenu/trusty/view/head:/libdbusmenu-gtk/parser.c#L424
<ali1234> i don't understand why insert has a special case but remove does not
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/libdbusmenu/trusty/revision/21#libdbusmenu-gtk/parser.c
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-31
<jjfrv8_> bluesabre, I had installed the ppa before I took those screenshots but I just got some updates tonight...
<jjfrv8_> and now it looks like slickymaster's. http://imagebin.org/275317
<jjfrv8_> latest version on top.
<ali1234> i think i may have cracked this one
<ali1234> yup
<bluesabre> congrats jjfrv8_ !
<Unit193> Reminder about the Xubuntu Community meeting tomorrow at 1500UTC.
<bluesabre> ali1234, that sounds promising
<bluesabre> Unit193, knome; won't be able to make it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nor will I. :)
<ali1234> bluesabre: it was indeed caused by that snippet of code i pasted above
<ali1234> i still don't know why, but I have it working again
<ali1234> updated the bug anyway
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> well, HMMMMMMMMMMM............ isn't valid syntax ;)
<ali1234> that was my commentary
<ali1234> anyway, i have a theory for what has happened here, off to test it out
<bluesabre> just messing :), good luck!
<Unit193> knome: Anything you think I had for the meeting feel free to carry. :P
<ali1234> so this is the fix http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/libdbusmenu/appindicatorfix/revision/462
<ali1234> still no idea why this fixes it, as it is the gtk2 version of the library that isn't working - this change should not affect the gtk3 version
<ali1234> PPA with fix is waiting to build: https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/dbusmenu
<slickymaster> dood morning all
<slickymaster> good ^^
<knome> Unit193, alllllright.
<lderan> hello knome, what shall we do about the slideshow thing, anyone i can poke to find their opinions?
<knome> can you remind what slideshow are we talking about?
<lderan> i can indeed
<lderan> https://code.launchpad.net/~lderan/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/test/+merge/180747
<knome> ah, that
<knome> umm, can you ask me again in two hours? :)
<lderan> sure thing :P
<knome> ta
<brainwash> ali1234: "I DO NOT understand why this works" :D
<lderan> slightly later then 2 hours but knome ping
<ochosi> brainwash: care to explain why bug #1231439 is related to shimmer-themes?
<ubottu> bug 1231439 in gnome-system-log (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-log crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231439
<brainwash> ochosi: ... give me some time to actually write a comment :P
<brainwash> now check again
<brainwash> well, it's probably the gtk engine or?
<elfy> is it not meeting time?
<brainwash> elfy: please confirm bug 1231439 :)
<ubottu> bug 1231439 in gnome-system-log (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-log crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231439
<ochosi> brainwash: we're using the default engine, so it would mean it's a bug in gtk itself
<ochosi> elfy: i guess it is, question is, who is actually here for it
<brainwash> ochosi: it does not happen with the unity themes, or the ugly default xfce ones
<brainwash> or the default kde gtk theme
<ochosi> brainwash: well those do use different engines (xfce-engine and unico)
<elfy> brainwash: not even got gnome-system-log installed
<brainwash> ochosi: so it happens with all the shimmer-themes, therefore I've added them to the affected packages list
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i understand. i'll see what we can do about it
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks :)
<elfy> brainwash: can confirm that it doesn't do anything but crash
<brainwash> elfy: try a non shimmer-theme
<elfy> ochosi: not many I guess :)
<elfy> brainwash: works with high-contrast
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for confirming
<elfy> welcome
<micahg-work> did I miss the meeting?
<micahg-work> oh, good, it's UTC based
<knome> no, you didn't
<knome> why wouldn't it be UTC based? :P
<skellat> We're only 13 minutes late starting then
<knome> hmm, right
<knome> well noticed!
<knome> i still hate DST :(
<knome> so.... who's here for the meeting? :)
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 31 15:14:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #topic Open action items from previous meeting 
<jjfrv8> o/
<elfy> o/
<knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
<knome> still TBD
<knome> skellat, have you prepared a blog article about upgrading? :)
<PhilDick> i came to lurk the meeting, hoping to get involved in 14.04 rollout/qa
<knome> PhilDick, welcome!
<knome> PhilDick, you should talk with elfy after the meeting is over
<PhilDick> ok
<skellat> knome: In light of a particular bug issue, it is best we put that action item on deep freeze
<skellat> Bug 1208204
<ubottu> bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<knome> ok, i'll just let it slip from the agenda
<knome> #topic Strategy Document reviewing 
<knome> yeah, i've been too busy to get the new version out
<knome> #action knome will send the updated SD to lists later this week
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will send the updated SD to lists later this week
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> does anybody have updates since last week?
<skellat> Tomorrow is the deadline for booking UDS sessions
<elfy> nothing to update from me 
<knome> let's bump the UDS discussion first after announcements.
<knome> any other updates?
<ochosi> nothing much from my side
<jjfrv8> #info nothing from docs
<knome> yeah, as expected, still quiet in the development front
<ochosi> well, there's some news in xfdesktop
<knome> aha, go ahead
<lderan> belated here for the meeting
<ochosi> not sure that really belongs here, but in many of our reviews ppl complained about us not shipping a set of nice wallpapers by default
<ochosi> a few things have become easier with the new xfdesktop (4.11)
<knome> ochosi, oh great :)
<ochosi> there are builtin options to change wallpapers based on time
<knome> we do have the community wallpapers idea still WIP, and i think the LTS release is the perfect place to introduce that
<ochosi> so we could have a morning, noon, afternoon and evening variant of our wallpaper
<ochosi> yup, i agree
<ochosi> and the thing is that the new xfdesktop allows users to simply select a folder which contains wallpapers, which is much better than the current system of being able to only add single wallpapers to the list (which would disappear after logout)
<ochosi> so i hope we can get a 4.11 release into 14.04
<ochosi> (as i don't expect xfce4.12 to land in time for 14.04)
<skellat> ochosi: What's the timeline looking like for 4.12 upstream?
<ochosi> many fixes also went into the desktop, eric was quite active on it
<ochosi> skellat: it's unknown
<skellat> ochosi: Okay
<ochosi> basically xfce has become a one-man show (especially wrt core-releases)
<knome> ochosi, i agree with trying to get the 4.11 release in. can you add that to the roadmap and specify the package we need and the reason? :)
<ochosi> so as long as NSchermer isn't around/active, nothing much is going to happen
<slickymaster> hi guys, sorry for being late :(
<lderan> hey slickymaster 
<ochosi> knome: yeah, will try to quickly add that (the package is already in the 4.12ppa)
<knome> ochosi, cheers
<ochosi> so we can even ask ppl to test things *now*
<elfy> excellent 
<ochosi> and report issues if they exist (so far i've not experienced any extra bugs with the 4.11 version, and i've been using it for a while)
<micahg-work> ochosi, I won't land 4.11 unless 4.12 is guaranteed to come behind it
<knome> #info xfdesktop 4.11 has some nice features; builtin support for wallpapers based on the time, support for selecting a specific directory where xfdesktop looks for wallpapers instead of the fixed system directory
<knome> micahg-work, i think we need to discuss that
<micahg-work> I don't like the idea of dropping in pre-release versions unless necessary
<micahg-work> we selected the pieces that look stable enough
<knome> micahg-work, landing stuff is fine from my point of view, as long as we test it thoroughly
<ochosi> yeah, so why not continue to do so?
<micahg-work> knome, sorry, didn't mean to be snarky :)
<ochosi> (i mean, continue to land pieces that seem stable enough)
<knome> micahg-work, the list we dropped in for 13.10 was short because of the lack of time, not because components weren't stable enough
<micahg-work> ochosi, because upgrade paths might become messy, as this is an LTS, I'd prefer to keep it as stable as sanely possible
<micahg-work> if this were LTS+1 I'd have no problem dropping in the prereleases if they looked stable
<micahg-work> I'd just rather not do it for the LTS unless we have no choice
<knome> as i said, i think we need to discuss what the policy re: including stuff is
<ochosi> micahg-work: i agree, in this case there's a migrate-patch: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=af240b063cd0678dc1739ffa28e93f1ff530bead
<ochosi> just saying, xfdesktop should take care of the transition by itself
<knome> ultimately, us dropping in some pieces of 4.11 can help xfce release 4.12 sooner.
<ochosi> +1
<knome> and we should definitely be in touch with them about releasing 4.12 too
<micahg-work> I wouldn't mind getting it packaged in a PPA, I'm just averse to throwing it in the archiv
<ochosi> well, it's already in a PPA ;)
<knome> my point is that if nobody is pushing stuff forward, we're going to stay quite frozen
<micahg-work> if we knew 4.12 was being released in Jan or Feb, this wouldn't be an issue, but that was supposed to happen at the beginning of the year
<ochosi> yeah, as i said, the situation weighs more or less on NSchermer's shoulders
<ochosi> and there aren't many other contributors to -core
<ochosi> i could get in touch with him about a 4.12 release-date, but i'm very pessimistic about that
<knome> we should all sit down, with nick, and discuss about this openly
<ochosi> there are still things left to do for 4.12, and i fear many of these things would have to be done by him
<skellat> We need to get that done before UDS anyhow as we need to have our features settled by then
<ochosi> simply because there aren't many other ppl around
<knome> with our and their concerns, the ways we can help them release sooner
<knome> skellat, yes and no... that's quite subjective :)
<skellat> knome: Feature Definition Freeze supposedly falls the same week as UDS in the Trusty Tahr schedule
<knome> skellat, yes, i'm aware of that, but it's still so-so if we "really" need to have everything planned; we've slipped that times and times...
<skellat> Okay
<knome> skellat, ...and nobody comes asking us what we're preparing, or need our list
<skellat> Okay
<ochosi> yeah, i think these are things we can decide for ourselves
<ochosi> but ofc it's helpful if we have some kind of feature definition freeze (in theory)
<knome> of course!
<knome> there's still a week to go, and tbh, i think that's enough time for us to sit down and think what we want *even if 4.12 didn't land*
<knome> i mean it's not a huge list, and it's not something that's going to break the world.
<ochosi> knome: one more thing we could discuss is the current panel layout
<knome> ochosi, okay.
<ochosi> i'm mostly happy with the top-panel, but i'm wondering about the bottom panel
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre, micahg-work: can we set some date in the next 7 days to sit down and discuss?
<micahg-work> Sunday is probably better for me
<ochosi> i mean i personally haven't used that one for ages and i'm really wondering how useful it is
<micahg-work> otherwise, it'll be too late for all of you
<lderan> i remove the bottom
<knome> sunday works for me, if it's late enough
<ochosi> hmm, sunday i'm travelling all day, but depends on the time
<knome> 22UTC?
<knome> ochosi, micahg-work: late enough?
<micahg-work> sounds good to me
<ochosi> late enough or too late :)
<elfy> ochosi: +1 to bottom panel and lderan I do as well  
<knome> ochosi, propose.
<ochosi> i'll try to make it
<micahg-work> well, that's late afternoon for me :)
<knome> ochosi, i can make it later... and earlier.
<ochosi> knome: ok, let me quickly check my train schedule
<knome> sure
<ochosi> elfy: +1 means drop the bottom panel or keep it in this context?
<PhilDick> i remove bottom panel
<knome> i'm fine with dropping the panel
<micahg-work> I'm fine with 22:00 UTC
<knome> micahg-work, let's wait for ochosi's train schedule confirmation :)
<elfy> ochosi: I mean I never use it and in fact remove it 
<ochosi> i think if we add e.g. whiskermenu by default (which i hope we will), it's easay enough to launch apps
<ochosi> easy
<knome> *coughs* :)
<ochosi> ok, thanks for the quick feedback
 * ochosi adds it to the roadmap
<knome> ochosi, sun schedule?
<ochosi> knome: sure sure, just one sec...
<micahg-work> I think the panel adds a nice touch, but if we can easily launch apps, it should be fine to remove
<knome> i don't know who actually use the panel
<micahg-work> let's make sure we have docs on how to add it back for people
<micahg-work> I use it to launch email/browser
<knome> it's somewhat hidden, and otoh, when it opens, it's a distraction
<knome> that's why i remove it
<ochosi> yeah, either add a real dock or drop that
<ochosi> (imo)
<jjfrv8> it's one of the first things I do on a new install - remove it, that is
<ochosi> knome: so i think it might work for me, let's make it 22utc
<knome> not sure if a real dock is any less distractive.
<knome> okay, 22 utc it is
<ochosi> dunno, i've been using plank for a while now and i enjoy it so far
<knome> #info Discussion about cherry-picking on Sunday, 3 November at 22UTC on #xubuntu-devel
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x18d3690>
<PhilDick> keep in mind xfce/xubuntu users may be avoiding bells and whistles intentionally. otoh those here may not be representative of all xub users
<ochosi> it also fits xubuntu nicely, because it's lightweight etc
<knome> #info Discussion about cherry-picking Xfce 4.11 components (and related issues) on Sunday, 3 November at 22UTC on #xubuntu-devel
<knome> ochosi, i think we can discuss about the panel configuration at a later time, in a general meeting
<ochosi> knome: we could try to invite some xfce devs too..
<knome> yep, we should.
<knome> #info ochosi and knome will try to invite some Xfce devs to the meeting
<knome> err
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x15afe10>
<ochosi> i'll send a quick note to the xfdesktop-dev
 * elfy will try to be there for that meeting so he can keep up with what he might need to think about
<knome> #action ochosi and knome will try to invite some Xfce devs to the meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi and knome will try to invite some Xfce devs to the meeting
<knome> elfy, cheers :) we will naturally also make notes...
<knome> #topic Announcements
<elfy> yep - not the same as following a discussion though at the time :)
<knome> #info Today is set as the last day of brainstorming for the Roadmap; the team shall approve blueprints next week
<knome> #info After approving, people have two weeks to finalize their specifications (where applicable)
<knome> any other announcements?
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> ochosi, thanks for the announcement
 * elfy has a pet peeve that could be an announcement 
<knome> elfy, go ahead
<elfy> does it need an # ?
<knome> elfy, #info please
<elfy> #info - When I ask people on the -dev list for what's likely to come up that needs testing during the cycle - can they please answer. Because I will be doing so. 
<knome> yep, we will :)
<knome> and we will also try to be in contact the other way; when we know something else/new needs testing, we will let you know
<skellat> #info A meeting may be scheduled if circumstances warrant outside the regular team meeting schedule on creating the core seed
<elfy> I'd rather know now that something is coming up in a few months - than then when otjher things are planned
<knome> elfy, sure. the meetings on sunday and next thurday when we approve things should give you a good idea what we are preparing to land to 14.04 images
<lderan> will be going through the list of the gtk apps for autopilot testing and seeing which ones now launch without error that didn't before and update the wiki
<knome> lderan, #action lderan ... :)
<elfy> #info During the next week I will be mailing -dev list re planning testing (cadence) 
<knome> elfy, feel free to add that to the meeting schedule as well, if you want that discussed next thu
<lderan> #action lderan to go through the gtk list to see which apps now work with autopilot
<meetingology> ACTION: lderan to go through the gtk list to see which apps now work with autopilot
 * knome bows
<elfy> lderan: can you keep in touch with me re that 
<lderan> will do
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<lderan> catfish works with it now which is prompting it
<knome> #subtopic Xubuntu Core: Do we offer it only as a metapackage or shall we make downloadable media avaiable as well? 
<elfy> knome: I suspect I will be working next thursday and missing - will leave copious notes
<knome> elfy, sure :)
<skellat> I can speak to the subtopic briefly
<knome> this has been discussed quite a bit, and i think the current stance is "only a metapackage"
<knome> skellat, go ahead
<micahg-work> would be nice as a netinstall or metapackage, I don't know that we need media unless we have the testers
<knome> i would like to avoid the extra image
<knome> another option is to make it selectable from the installer, as edubuntu does
<knome> i'm not against that, but if you make me choose, just a metapackage works.
<skellat> Within the limits of the current approved generation options for installation, we can either generate an image or have a user go through mini.iso
<PhilDick> as a potential new qa tester, easier is better.... i'm willing to learn whats required but easier may equal more testers.
<elfy> I'd be +1 for whatever is easiest for us as a team to work with 
<skellat> If core is kept as a strict subset of regular xubuntu-desktop, though
<knome> skellat, ...and we can offer it as an option in the installer :)
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be really nice
<skellat> knome: That would require some hacking on ubiquity to make it available as an option
<knome> skellat, sure, but that's completely in our reach, if we want to do that
<elfy> and a whole lot of extra testing - do we really think that we'd get that? 
<skellat> With the way live cd images are generated
<skellat> ...
<elfy> I don't want to be having to do more tests on milestone days because we've not had sufficient turnout
<skellat> core would have to be a strict subset and ubiquity would need additional rules on what to leave behind
<knome> elfy, a few more testcases.
<knome> skellat, yep.
<xnox> skellat: ubiquity supports plugins, so one of xubuntu specific packages can just drop in one .py file as a plugin to fully customize ubiquity. thus actually you can do all of that without touching lp:ubiquity at all =)
<elfy> knome: which is ok if you have more than ~20 testers
<GridCube> oh meeting
<elfy> yep :)
<skellat> Thank you xnox.  We'll still need somebody to make the plugin, though.
<knome> elfy, i'm not disagreeing or pushing for the ubiquity stuff. just saying *it is possible if we want it*
<knome> even from the QA point of view.
<elfy> yep - I understand what you're saying - just putting my pov across now :)
<knome> of course it's additional burden... but it's about the same as if we reintroduced the alternate images
<xnox> skellat: knome: in terms of implementation - ubiquity is stupid and copies everything first, and then does removal. So xubuntu-desktop will be install first, and then you need to intelligently do an $ apt-get remove * step in essence.
<skellat> The case behind core remains we give the bare basic subset of desktop, which should require fewer test cases, that installers can then customize as they see fit in lieu of what xubuntu-desktop provides.
<elfy> skellat: it's not about what is IN a testcase - but that we rarely have enough people testing what we already have :)
<skellat> elfy: True
<knome> skellat, we still need/want to test what's in the -desktop metapackage as well
<skellat> Ideally the tests would overlap
<knome> sure :)
<skellat> The same things would be covered
<skellat> -core would just have fewer of them than -desktop
<knome> skellat, what's your take on the subject? what would you do?
<skellat> From what xnox said about ubiquity, I'd generate a separate image
<skellat> That way we don't have to deal with ubiquity having to remove things
<knome> that would mean quite many new testcases though
<skellat> True
<knome> which i think isn't sustainable
<skellat> My second choice would be fabulous documentation on the art of using mini.iso
<knome> okay
<knome> so you would try to avoid modifying ubiquity? :)
<GridCube> but mini ist a real option to poeple who want -core because they dont have a fast connection
<skellat> The plugin could be done as xnox mentions above but then we'd have to worry about dependencies being broken during a remove and possibly creating dead installs
<xnox> knome: skellat: alternative is to make the default liveimage xubuntu-core, and ship the rest of xubuntu-desktop in the /pool/ which is installed in-target "the slow way" (same as it was done by alternate image)
<knome> GridCube, that's not the only reason why people want -core
<GridCube> no, i didnt said it where
<xnox> knome: skellat: but then "try xubuntu" would actually be "try xubuntu-core"
<knome> xnox, yeah, that's not what we want... whatever we end up doing, -desktop should be the default
<knome> so anyway, Unit193 has been setting up a list of packages we want for -core
<xnox> knome: it can still be default, but there is an option to sacrafice the "livecd session" to be -core.
<micahg-work> Personally, I'd rather generate and test one image well, than 2 images poorly
<knome> rather than argue about how we'll do it, let's see what it would consist instead, first
<knome> micahg-work, +1
<elfy> micahg-work: +1
<GridCube> +1
<GridCube> also thats why we droped alternate in the first time
<skellat> As to GridCube's notion of needing a fast connection to download, we would get enough to bootstrap & apt-offline would be useful to grab the rest.  That's why we seed it.
<knome> #action Unit193 to send a proposed list of packages for -core to ML
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to send a proposed list of packages for -core to ML
<PhilDick> i'd say that raising visibility of the need for testers and the howto on tester setup might be most impactful option. i'd describe what i found starting from xubuntu.org as subdued and scattered.
<micahg-work> I'm fine with the metapackage and tasksel installation option, but let's leave it off the media, I think we have enough to test for the LTS, let's not add to that
<elfy> PhilDick: yea - that's on the roadmap for QA actually 
<knome> PhilDick, that's a different question, and i can't agree more; and it's on the roadmap/plans for 14.04; talk with elfy if you want to help :)
<knome> micahg-work, s/for the LTS/for any version/ :)
<micahg-work> we can think about adding that for LTS+1 and if it's successful, we can produce a point release for those new images
<knome> i don't think it's important enough to warrant a new image
<knome> ultimately, it should be only installed by people who know what they are doing
<micahg-work> knome, I'd say especially the LTS as we have to support this for 3 years, so we want to get it right, plus, this is what we point non-advanced users to as a rock solid platform
<knome> and that kind of people should be comfortable with the mini ISO
<knome> micahg-work, sure, but it's true enough for any release, we don't have dozens of testers anyway
<knome> anyway, we're agreeing; let's move on
<knome> #chair ochosi 
<meetingology> Current chairs: knome ochosi
<knome> ochosi, the floor is yours
<ochosi> ok, first of all, thanks slickymaster and jjfrv8 on helping out with parole-docs
<knome> ochosi, #subtopic too, if you want to have #info #action
<ochosi> it's really a great help for bluesabre and me, so we can focus on fixing bugs
<ochosi> knome: sure
<ochosi> i think one way we can help both xfce and xubuntu is by improving the xfce docs
<ochosi> they're in dokuwiki format, which is easier to handle for newbies than docbook etc
<ochosi> #info ochosi thinks one way we can help both xfce and xubuntu is by improving the xfce docs
 * knome facepalms
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x17c9f10>
<knome> #subtopic Documentation
<knome> #info ochosi thinks one way we can help both xfce and xubuntu is by improving the xfce docs
<ochosi> ok ok :)
<ochosi> #info e.g. for parole-docs we set up a staging site for the docs, we can do the same for other xfce components
<ochosi> #info xfdesktop could use some updates, looking ahead at the changes of the 4.12 release
<ochosi> #info so feel free to get in touch with ochosi if you wanna help out with xfce docs
<knome> that includes jono_ at the redhat nat!
 * knome hides
<jono_> ;-)
<ochosi> ok, that's it from my side
<knome> anybody else has any issues?
<GridCube> o/
<GridCube> i added a few topics to the roadmap
<knome> ok
<knome> thanks
<GridCube> well, two
<knome> we will be going through them this week, and deciding about them next thu
<GridCube> ok, if we find new ideas can we still add them to the roadmap?
<knome> feel free to; i'll add a subheader to separate things added after today though
<GridCube> alright
<knome> but no reason to not add new items; ultimately, we can use them for planning the U roadmap
<GridCube> what about the desktop of the week?
<knome> i will need to get to that some day
<knome> i've still been really busy; sorry about that :)
<GridCube> :/ that doesnt sound very promising
<knome> and :(
<GridCube> but alright :) i know its really low in the lists
<knome> tell that to my clients and real life :P
<knome> anything else?
<GridCube> do not worry
<knome> don't worry, i won't worry... and don't get that wrong, it's on the list and i will eventually get to it ;)
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #info There is a non-regular meeting on Sunday, 3 November at 22UTC on #xubuntu-devel about picking Xfce 4.11 components (and related issues)
<knome> #info The next regular Xubuntu community meeting is on Thursday, 7 November at 15UTC on #xubuntu-devel
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 31 16:18:15 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-10-31-15.14.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-10-31-15.14.html
<knome> ta!
<knome> i'll put up the logs up later today
<elfy> thanks knome 
<skellat> I may ask Unit193 to join me for an impromptu core meeting at some point in our local evening
<knome> skellat, sure! if you have any conclusions, send them to the list :)
<knome> bbl ->
<elfy> lderan: PhilDick is kind of onboard for helping out with autopilot as well 
<lderan> awesome
<elfy> he's mid USA I think - he's going to mail the -dev list 
<lderan> ah righteo
<elfy> lderan: you are on that list I assume?
<lderan> i think so
<lderan> will check
<lderan> yup i am \o/
<elfy> ok - what I think will be best is to 'talk' it over on there for him 
<elfy> but we shall see
<Unit193> knome: Fantastic, metapackage only is currently how I know to do it, but can tasksel offer without recommends?  I had the metapackage built for saucy and it does work, I created the image only so you wouldn't actually have to do an install, reason why it's bigger is because it has the installer and casper.  (So, it's for lazy people that want to know what's up.)
<elfy> brainwash: the fix for restart button is in proposed - works for me 
<brainwash> elfy: yeah, something which should have been fixed before release =S
<elfy> maybe so 
<brainwash> fixing stuff afterwards won't happen or with a big delay :)
<brainwash> oh, "
<brainwash> Encoding errors in gmusicbrowser" fixed too
<elfy> fixing stuff afterwards won't happen or with a big delay :)
<elfy> bbl
<brainwash> elfy: did you boot a fresh system to test the updated update-manager package?
<elfy> brainwash: nope - enabled proposed and upgraded it 
<Noskcaj> I just read the meeting logs, a few comments: 1. iso testing should get easier when dan chapman finishes the ubiquity autopilot, should be some time soon. 2. I can't make the dev meeting, i'll have just got to school when it starts. 3. We should look at xfce4-setting 4.11.1, i doubt anything bad will have come from the point release. 4. Should i contact pkg-xfce (since lionel is usually busy), and see if anyone wants to attend the meeting?
<elfy> Noskcaj: re #1 - I know and it'd on the roadmap and the pad - which I appear to have removed the link for
<elfy> though I've not yet ascertained how much of the iso testing actually gets done 
<knome> automated testing doesn't replace manual testing though
<elfy> no
<elfy> and I'm not anticipating it doing so - just making life a bit easier 
<knome> sure
<knome> just saying
<elfy> yep :)
<skellat> knome: Do we have anything we want to schedule?  The UDS schedule looks open at the moment: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/all/
<Unit193> Do XDS again! :D
<skellat> LoCo Council also made a decision that it will have its own separate summit so those type issues should hopefully be split away from the UDS schedule this time
 * skellat was not the driving force behind the LoCo Summit proposal
<skellat> Proposals for UDS are due by tomorrow if we want to book time slots
<skellat> Or we can do our own thing again too
 * ochosi is afraid of huge video-talk and privacy concern discussions (again)
<Unit193> ^
<elfy> ^^
<ochosi> (especially since i had the feeling the video-conferencing was actually fun and productive)
<elfy> I didn't mind it ochosi - but I've still not got a mike nor cam :p
<ochosi> elfy: well then that'd be something that silly project money could be used for
<ochosi> a webcam with integrated mic is how much, 15â¬?
<elfy> no idea ochosi tbh 
<lderan> they are fairly cheap nowadays
<elfy> subjective :)
<elfy> ochosi: but yea I know what you mean - I'd just not have said that would a good use for that project money - seems a bit like asking for a handout :)
<ochosi> dunno, if i deeply cared about the money, i'd have claimed it for myself ;)
<ochosi> so i think whatever helps xubuntu
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> and if it improves our communication, i don't mind throwing 15â¬ of that project money at you :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> then I'd feel honour bound to not wander off ... 
<skellat> I merely bring up UDS to point out a deadline.  While it would be nice to meet as part of it so that we might be able to interest passers-by, we've also lived without that framework too.
 * elfy needs a comfy chair now - bbl
<elfy> skellat: yep - I think the issue we had before is likely to be the same one again - getting people together at the right time - it's always slap bang in the middle of my working day - so can't contribute
<knome> skellat, bugger, forgot that.
<knome> elfy, i think buying you a set of mic+cam would be a good use of the project money
<knome> elfy, whether we did videoconferencing or not...
<knome> elfy, do you have a paypal account?
<lderan> aye good use :)
<elfy> knome: I think I did have one - but not used it for ages 
<elfy> knome: yes I do 
<Unit193> knome: We're not actually going to consider xmir this round, since it's an LTS, right?
<brainwash> Unit193: did pitti's systemd-shim package fix the issue on your system?
<Unit193> brainwash: Testing tonight.
<brainwash> Unit193: alright, it looks like 50% of the comments confirm, that it does fix the issue
<Unit193> Read them yesterday, so if no new ones appeared, that's kind of what it looked like.
<knome> Unit193, *shrug*
<brainwash> can xmir be installed right now?
<brainwash> for some random testing
<knome> i can't see why not
<brainwash> but it won't work ootb or?
<knome> when we evaluated it, it worked for some and didn't work for some
<knome> i can't see any reason why it shouldn't at least *try* to work when you install it
<brainwash> so installing the required packages is enough? no additional adjustments?
<knome> i am not the expert on that field, but i would start with that.
<brainwash> ok, always hearing stories about xmir made me curious, so I decided to test it
<brainwash> it does not look like anyone here is actually testing xmir currently
<knome> no, not specifically
<brainwash> I assume xmir gets improved and patched on a regular base
<knome> olli, hullo!
<Unit193> knome: Ran him off.
<Unit193> brainwash: Just install the needed packages and you're set, whether it works or not on your hardware is a different story.
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> You can always try the image. :P
<Unit193> Should be unity-system-compositor, and that should pull in xorg-xmir or whatever the packagename is.
<brainwash> it's a low end intel gpu, so I don't really expect any trouble
<brainwash> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Installing
<brainwash> oh, libgoogle-glog0 gets pulled in
<brainwash> "library that implements application-level logging."
<ochosi> brainwash: is that a depend or a recommend?
<Unit193> Depends: libgoogle-glog0
<ochosi> i wonder what the heck that one does
<brainwash> logging
<brainwash> isn't it great to have google and the NSA (selinux) in your system?
<ochosi> jono: any comments on that? ^
<jono> ochosi, not really
<ochosi> jono: anyone we could ask about what this is really about?
<jono> ochosi, what do you want to achieve?
<ochosi> well, i just wanna know what the library does
<jono> I don't know, ask the maintainer
<jono>  This library provides logging APIs based on C++-style streams and various helper macros. 
<jono> http://packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/libgoogle-glog0
<jono> maintainers:
<jono>     Daigo Moriwaki
<jono>     Laszlo Boszormenyi (GCS)
<jono> http://code.google.com/p/google-glog/
<brainwash> it should be harmless, because everyone can take a look at the source code, right? :)
<ochosi> jono: that's all good, i was just wondering whether you knew anything about that by any chance. no worries if not, i can inquire myself too
<ochosi> night everyone
<lderan> a quick look it looks like it emails the logs
<lderan> night ochosi 
<Unit193> 0_O
<lderan> lines 129 ~ 146 in logging.cc
#xubuntu-devel 2013-11-01
<astraljava> Emailing logs is all good and dandy, as long as there's no hardcoded email addresses induced.
<lderan> can't find any
<astraljava> Ok, Unit193, breathe normally again.
<Unit193> astraljava: Not yet, nope.
<astraljava> Oh yeah, sorry I forgot who I was talk*... typing to.
<Unit193> Well, that and gparted went to sleep on the job (segfault during op)
<Unit193> queuebot:#ubuntu-release: New: accepted light-locker [source] (trusty-proposed) [1.0.0-0ubuntu1]
<astraljava> Unit193: Ugh, that's not nice.
<Unit193> astraljava: Reeeeeeeeally not good. :/
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1237134  And the ubuntu1 version is just because it's in Ubuntu first, there are no debian/patches/ files.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1237134 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] light-locker -- lightdm-based session locker" [Medium,In progress]
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/q/369302/12435
<skellat> ali1234: It went kaboom because test-glib-events failed on the PPA builder
<Unit193> brainwash: Re: Update notifier appindicator, I seem to have it, though I did edit the dbus file.
<bluesabre> re: xfce-4.11, I agree about not shipping dev components for an LTS
<Unit193> Well, in some ways I do too, but I want them personally. :P
<bluesabre> re: bottom panel, I like the bottom panel, prefer plank more
<Unit193> Isn't backports at a lower pin number?  Can we ship some there?
<Unit193> Yeah, I keep it as well.
<bluesabre> re: meeting sunday at 22UTC, I'll try to make it
<bluesabre> dunno about backports
<Unit193> ...And guess what?  Can't make the meeting. :)
<bluesabre> Not even trying :P
<Unit193> Can't, busy at that time. :P
<Unit193> knome: bug 1242417 - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/154805913/grub2_2.00-19ubuntu2_2.00-19ubuntu2.1.diff.gz
<ubottu> bug 1242417 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu Trusty) "UEFI install broken when GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR!=Ubuntu (e.g. Kubuntu/UbuntuStudio)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242417
<knome> Unit193, i know, but does that really affect us?
<Unit193> No, remember about the /etc/default/grub.d/xubuntu.cfg idea?
<knome> yes, and i'm aware that's related
<knome> thanks for the heads up though :)
<Unit193> Cool, wasn't sure you saw, or would care to see. :P
<knome> i did, they are probably doing a .1 release for studio
<Unit193> smarts backed it out.
<knome> aha..
<Unit193> (Or, he did and someone else I think did in the repo.)
<knome> mmkay
<knome> it's november!
<knome> BAHH.
<brainwash> elfy: this annoying issue remains, bug 1247002
<ubottu> bug 1247002 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "There is no way to cancel restart when installing updates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1247002
<elfy> yea - I'd noticed that for a while actually - I wonder if it is actually a bug or a change in behaviour that's just been badly communicated
<elfy> it is a bit 'windowsy' for my liking
<elfy> not been annoyed enough to actually report it I must add
<brainwash> windowsy like in ms windows?
<elfy> yea
<elfy> a bit YOU WILL RESTART AND WE'LL ANNOY YOU TILL YOU DO :p
<brainwash> but microsoft allows the user to close the restart window
<brainwash> if you run unity, it will remain in the sidebar, not a bit deal there I think
<ali12341> that's currently the top post in r/ubuntu
<brainwash> big
<elfy> ali12341: is it - I harldy ever go there 
<brainwash> r/ubuntu :D
<elfy> reddit I assume
<ali12341> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1pnwfx/who_put_windows_on_my_laptop/
<brainwash> http://imgur.com/VoI36N0
<brainwash> yeah
<brainwash> but keeping the window open/alive is the only solution right now, if there is no working appindicator
<Unit193> Ctrl+Alt+Esc click, fixed. :D
<elfy> of course it was a WHOLE lot more annoying when the restart button didn't do anything even if you did click it :p
<brainwash> mmh, anyone familiar with https://www.ksplice.com/ "Ksplice Uptrack lets you apply 100% of the important kernel security updates released by your Linux vendor without rebooting.
<brainwash> "?
<brainwash> I feel like installing this software which sends information to Oracle :)
<elfy> I'm aware of it 
<Unit193> I've used it.
<brainwash> the funny thing is that update-manager will continue to show the restart window even on such a rebootless system
<brainwash> Unit193: and it worked flawless?
<Unit193> brainwash: 1. No, it won't as uptrack moves/removes /run/reboot-required.  2. Define "flawless"?
<brainwash> without causing any trouble
<Unit193> Never made the system unstable, tried to hit a bug with the patch applied and couldn't, but didn't verify beforehand that it did work.
<brainwash> and why did you stop using it?
<Unit193> On one computer I bake my own kernel, and I didn't on the other.
<Unit193> Note, inxi knows about spliced kernels. :)
<brainwash> wow, thanks for the information
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> Bug #1033226 
<ubottu> bug 1033226 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "No close option, only restart" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033226
<Unit193> brainwash: I'm not saying it works magic, but handy because server kernel is technically the same as desktop, just no -extras.  I do know of one other at least that uses it.
<brainwash> Unit193: I'll give it a go then
<elfy> give it a go in -offtopic :p
<brainwash> just looking for a "solution" to get rid of the restart window :)
<brainwash> so it's ontopic, well if you consider talk about the update-manager ontopic =S
<Unit193> sudo rm /run/reboot-required /run/reboot-required.pkgs
<ochosi> brainwash: nice, your update-manager patch just landed
<ochosi> (i mean "just" landed here on my laptop :))
<elfy> does that add a restart later button ... :p
<ochosi> no, but it makes the restart-button actually work :)
<ochosi> good first step
<elfy> aah yes - I got that yesterday :)
<brainwash> a restart later button, yeah, if you press it, it will minimize the window :P
<Unit193> Copy from windows, hide for 30 minutes.
<brainwash> I don't expect any change before 14.04
<ochosi> well, 14.04 is a good-enough goal i'd say
<Unit193> I'd agree as this is the first I've known about it.
<ochosi> cool thing is that the window is closeable via e.g. plank :)
<ochosi> and then there's always xkill (handy to have that bound to ctrl+alt+esc like it used to be)
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> ochosi: You setting up another default kebind I have now?! ;)
<brainwash> xmir still lacks proper support for dpms, utilizes a software cursor, does screen flickering on quite few occasions, even reacts delayed to some events and does not like systems with hybrid graphics if both gpus are powered on
<brainwash> what a bummer
<brainwash> oh, and I noticed some redraw issues too 
<Unit193> brainwash: Hey, sounds like it works better for you, then!
<brainwash> Unit193: lucky me :)
<brainwash> so xmir or not? clearly a NO at this point
<Unit193> It's an LTS and it'd be the first with it, I'm saying no.
<brainwash> could be shipped as optional choice, but not in the current unpolished state
<brainwash> Unit193: btw, got some suspend/resume test results finally?
<Unit193> brainwash: Nothing much, worked so far, but funny that wireless came alive faster when "directly" using pm-suspend. :P
<brainwash> the whole issue is slowly driving me mad, pitti released the new package and wasn't seen online since then, another dev removed all the duplicated reports and reassigned them to the linux package while asking people to test kernel 3.12
<brainwash> it's a mess
<Unit193> When I was using pm-suspend I was on the generic kernel, now I'm back to liquorix, so that'll hit 12 once it's released.
<slickymaster> night all
<elfy> good night slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi elfy, how are you?
<elfy> tired - should be asleep lol
<slickymaster> :), yeah, that makes two of us
<slickymaster> and tomorrow I'll have to wake up pretty early
<slickymaster> I'll just finish one last thing at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:slickymaster and thn I'm off to bed
<elfy> cool
<slickymaster> and then ^^
<elfy> I'm planning trusty from my point of view
<elfy> or trying to get a start :)
<slickymaster> I know, I've been paying attention 
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> no need to say that I'm here for everything you might need, righ?
<slickymaster> right
 * slickymaster and is typing skills
<elfy> no need to say so - I know I can shout :)
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> and as far as I've been able to get, you're going to be dealing with a plate full of tests
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> I'm sure you'll cruise through the all storm
<elfy> it's not the rerun of saucy I'm thinking about, but the getting in testing for things that we hope to land :)
<slickymaster> yeah, I know what you mean
<slickymaster> but I'm under the impression that the autopilot tests will take a more important role this next cycle, at least with Xubuntu, but I might be misunderstanding it
<elfy> not looking that way from where I'm sitting at the moment I'm afraid 
<elfy> anyway - good night all :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-11-02
<Noskcaj> Where's the logout bug? Someone reported a dupe at bug 1247337
<ubottu> bug 1247337 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Xfce Restart button logs me out but does not reboot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1247337
<brainwash> ali1234: https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/rand
<bluesabre> slickymaster, jjfrv8; this channel is too long... where is the page with the theme definition on my wiki?
<bluesabre> micahg: If you get a chance, could you approve this and merge it so we can fix two very simple bugs? https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes
<bluesabre> I've had the merge request available for it since beta 2
<sadin> archlinux-offtopic
<sadin> ugh woops to out of it this morning...
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, you mean this one? http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
<bluesabre> yes, thanks!
<jjfrv8> welcome
<ali1234> brainwash: yeah it doesn't build
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, all the data on that page were current but my screenshots weren't. I just corrected that.
<jjfrv8> I've also updated the screenshots on the pages I've been working on: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:playground
<ochosi> jjfrv8: nice work!
<ochosi> looks pretty
<jjfrv8> ochosi, so you think I'm on the right track? It's not too basic and stating the obvious?
<ochosi> no, to me this looks very god
<ochosi> good
<ochosi> :)
<jjfrv8> cool
<ochosi> indeed, if bluesabre is around while i am, we can discuss what parts we can copy over to docs.xfce and when
<bluesabre> ochosi: with the exception of my screenshot on introduction, I think everything we've got so far is in great condition
<jjfrv8> ok. I think the overview is pretty much done. I'm not sure yet how we will link to the menu pages that slickymaster has started...
<jjfrv8> and I have yet to start on.
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i agree. that's why i thought we can start to migrate some pages even today if you want
<ochosi> bluesabre: it's not like it has to be there in one go
<bluesabre> true
<bluesabre> I'd say go for it
<ochosi> btw, i'm not sure we've changed the report-bugs link in 0.5
<ochosi> cause we should probably do that
<ochosi> and also change the help-link
<bluesabre> right now I am starting to work on an mpris plugin
<ochosi> might take a while for parole 0.6 to spread (mainly because of libxfce4ui)
<ochosi> sweet!
<ochosi> does the dbus-stuff we already have help?
<bluesabre> not sure yet
<bluesabre> but yeah, go ahead and start moving some of the docs over
<ochosi> alright, i'll start with something easy (commandline-opts)
<bluesabre> I'm jealous of totem's python plugin interface
<ochosi> mmm, i figured :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: are you fine with me copying the prefs next or is there any blocker from your perspective?
<jjfrv8> ochosi, nothing that I know of
<elfy> afternoon 
<jjfrv8> hey, elfy 
<elfy> jjfrv8 - cracking job you and slick have done :)
<jjfrv8> thanks :)
<ochosi> elfy: +1
<elfy> I hope you all read this bit of my mailng " Can the team please comment on the pads where applicable and here." :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: great, now since you've set everything up already at your end, would you mind re-taking the screenshot from the introduction page? then i could copy that one over as well
<ochosi> and then only the usage page is missing, but that one seemed to be pretty ready as well, no? (despite being in the playground-section for no obvious reason :p)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I added that screenshot, but anybody can replace it with anything
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> hm, i like video-position for the screenshot a lot btw :)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I started with Usage in playground because I was waiting for a review before moving it.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: alrighty. but this is really just the staging site, so feel free to play ;)
<jjfrv8> alright, I'll move it over now.
<ochosi> cool, thanks!
<jjfrv8> I'll also see if I can reproduce bluesabre's opening screenshot and put that in.
<ochosi> thanks, that's great
<ochosi> it's looking a bit like we might get the docs moved over completely today \o/
<jjfrv8> well, we're still missing some menu items. the ones I'm supposed to do :(
<ochosi> ah, well no worries
<ochosi> i'm even pretty happy with the status quo: http://docs.xfce.org/apps/parole/start
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> i still love our bug-page
<ochosi> we should propose this layout to more xfce-components
<ochosi> although few have such a clean bugzilla as parole :p
<bluesabre> this is true
<bluesabre> the mpris stuff seems like it might take a while
<ochosi> bluesabre: well if it isn't straightforward we can also do something else before that
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> i thought it would've been nice, cause it'd have qualified parole as a basic music player as well
<bluesabre> I just thought it might be a bit more accessible :)
<ochosi> in modern desktops
<ochosi> yeah, that's certainly true
<bluesabre> right, hence my interest in it.
<ochosi> in fact, the xfce-deps are a bit of a bummer now
<bluesabre> I'll see what I can do with it today
<ochosi> cause xfce4.12 will delay the spread of 0.6
<bluesabre> that just means more time to fix bugs and improve stability
<ochosi> and it makes it harder to use parole in e.g. gnome3
<ochosi> sure, true
<bluesabre> and maybe crank some plugins out
<ochosi> making parole youtube-enabled would be probably on top of my list
<ochosi> but even using that grillo framework might be a lot of work
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> there might be an easier way
<ochosi> an it's a source for another gazillion new bugs
<bluesabre> might look into youtube-dl
<ochosi> mhmmmm
<bluesabre> http://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/
<bluesabre> might be some handy info in there
<ochosi> holy moly, that one has quite a few options
<ochosi> seems like it's already quite complex
<bluesabre> yeah, we might be able to convert some small part of that to get our stream url
<ali1234> you can never make youtube work in a third party player
<ali1234> at best it will work only for 30% of videos
<ochosi> ali1234: minitube seems to do ok
<ali1234> and after about two months it will stop working because they redesigned the website
<bluesabre> still works pretty well for totem
<ochosi> well true, a stable api is something else
<ochosi> but we don't *have to* provide browsing of youtube in the player
<bluesabre> all I'm interested in is pasting the youtube url in the open network location and it streaming something
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> holy moly, they say it works on youtube "and a few other sites", then look at this impressive list: https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/tree/master/youtube_dl/extractor
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> btw ochosi, I saw that light-locker is now in trusty
<ochosi> yup :)
<bluesabre> I think there needs to be a minimal configuration tool for it
<ochosi> and we finally managed to set up translation stuff
<bluesabre> to enable/disable/set the timeout
<ochosi> hm, not sure, usually you'd either have the timeout or not
<bluesabre> It's all xset stuff, right?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> should be easy to make a simple gui for that, even in C to ship as part of the light-locker package
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i mean the timeout is just an addon to the xset stuff
<bluesabre> just a thought, since ubuntu is very interested in using it, and so are we and possibly lubuntu
<ochosi> yeah, i mean the thing is that even if we designed such an app, i'm not sure ubuntu wouldn't simply include a single checkbox or whatever in their powermanager-settings
<bluesabre> ah
<ochosi> i think a more integrated solution would be better
<bluesabre> thats a good point
<ochosi> so e.g. you could have a compile-time check in xfce4-powerman to see whether light-locker is there
<ochosi> then just add a few settings
<ochosi> a separate thingy could be an ok-fallback-solution though for people that don't use proper DEs
<ochosi> what's more important, we've finally set up our translations in transifex.com, so it'll be easier for ppl to add/update the translations
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> actually, if you make a simple config for light-locker, the desktop entry could be set to OnlyShowIn=Xfce;LXDE etc
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> but i think before we do that, it'd be nicer to get support into xfce4-powerman
<ochosi> the main issue with that at the moment is anyway that lightdm would have to support the feature
<ochosi> at the moment, the screen unblanks when light-locker starts the locking
<ochosi> (because you get redirected to the unlock-screen)
<ochosi> (and that spawns a new x-session, hence the dpms timeout is reset)
<bluesabre> makes sense
<ochosi> so lightdm would have to be called with some additional parameter or something to keep the screen blanked
<bluesabre> but for that, wouldn't that be an ubuntu-specific patch for powerman since lightdm is not an xfce project?
<ochosi> at least that'd be my approach
<bluesabre> if ubuntu takes light-locker, they'll add that to lightdm for sure
<ochosi> well hopefully
<ochosi> not sure i got that, what ubuntu-specific patch do you mean?
<bluesabre> ... and then break it for us potentially :)
<ochosi> there'd not be a patch in the powermanager, but in lightdm
<ochosi> and light-locker would keep its behavior as is
<bluesabre> for xfce4-powerman to control light-locker timeout, enabled
<ochosi> hence things should work on all distros shipping lightdm and light-locker
<ochosi> xfce4-powerman would only control xset
<ochosi> nothing else
<ochosi> and probably the additional timeout, but that's over-the-top imo
<bluesabre> oh!
<bluesabre> hmmm
<ochosi> 3-5secs should be fine from screen-blanking to screen-locking
<ochosi> so, the way things work now:
<ochosi> you set your "screensaver" with xset s $timeout
<ochosi> then you start light-locker with the additional timeout parameter
<ochosi> (as it is autostarted in the session, the distributor will usually set that one)
<ochosi> and then after xset kicks in + light-locker-timeout, you get redirected to the login-screen
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> makes sense to me
<ochosi> so all that needs to be added is for lightdm to keep the screen blanked in this case
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> and an option in xfce4-powerman's UI to set the X-screensaver timeout
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, ochosi, I've replaced the opening screenshot: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=introduction
<ochosi> jjfrv8: sweet! nice work
<ochosi> i'll copy that over then
<jjfrv8> the playback control bar turned light gray as soon as the video started playing, is that normal?
<bluesabre> fantastic!
<ochosi> yeah, it is
<jjfrv8> ok, good.
<ochosi> the bar should be transparent, but due to gstreamer, it isn't in windowed-mode
<jjfrv8> ah
<ochosi> so the transparency of the bar gets interpreted as being on a white background
<ochosi> hence the brighter bg-color
<ochosi> (the default screen has black bg, so the bg of the overlay is darker)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks a lot! done: http://docs.xfce.org/apps/parole/introduction
<bluesabre> ochosi: on -offtopic, know what package he should report that bug for?
<jjfrv8> :)
<PhilDick> Morning ochosi
<PhilDick> I just got my first xubuntu-devel mailing list digest, and it had like one request from an apparent outsider, and no other messages... is this correct or have I got something wrong?
<ochosi> PhilDick: you can always check in the web-version of the ML archive
<elfy> PhilDick: hi there - there's not been much on the list this week - the digest probably missed the long one I sent earlier :)
<ochosi> PhilDick: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel
<PhilDick> Good reminder thanks, just thought I'd shout out and be seen ;)
<PhilDick> thanks for the quick link!
<ochosi> bluesabre: problem is xfce4-powerman's lack of logind-support. not sure this'll get fixed in time before 14.04, so we'll be stuck with half-broken powermanagement
<ochosi> don't think anyone in xfce-core will work on it
<ochosi> not too many powerman-users there afaik
<ochosi> jjfrv8: would you rather finish the usage page or shall i copy over what we have now?
<ochosi> (totally up to you, i don't think either is a problem)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: also, small feedback, i think instead of "
<ochosi> "Removes all selections at once" it could be "Removes all items in the playlist at once."
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, we also need a part on keyboard-shortcuts in parole. would you rather put that in usage or on a separate page?
<bluesabre> probably in usage
<bluesabre> and should we mention in the docs where the auto-saved playlist is stored?
<ochosi> yeah, probably a good idea
<bluesabre> also document the right-click menu
<ochosi> hmm, true
<bluesabre> which I updated today
<bluesabre> so be sure to pull the latest git
<ochosi> you did? oh, haven't seen
<bluesabre> I'll document the plugins
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> noted the todo-stuff in your wiki, just not to forget it
<bluesabre> thanks
<jjfrv8> ochosi, good feedback. I made the change.
<jjfrv8> I was going to do some more work on the Usage page...
<jjfrv8> maybe try to link slickymaster's stuff into it...
<jjfrv8> don't know how far I'll get today, though
<jjfrv8> I was also thinking of putting in a section on kb shortcuts and will add bluesabre's suggestion about auto-saved location.
<bluesabre> great!
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I will run updates. What should I look for with the right-click menu?
<bluesabre> The order, previous should come before next track
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, got the update but I don't think it changed. http://imagebin.org/275535
<bluesabre> yeah, looks like the package hasn't rebuilt yet
<bluesabre> I'll try to force it
<bluesabre> ok, launchpad estimates the package should be rebuilt and available in around an hour
<jjfrv8> sounds like lunchtime then :)
<jjfrv8> bbiab
<ochosi> jjfrv8: sweet! and bon appetit :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: so you're still working on mpris2?
<bluesabre> got distracted
<ochosi> if you want, i can try to dig up some more example code, or something that's closer to what we need
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> hehe, nvm
<bluesabre> I found some example code
<bluesabre> inside of bluez
<bluesabre> unfortunately, it seems to be registered as an active application with mpris, you have to use dbus-service
<bluesabre> which makes for a lot of code
<bluesabre> so I might put this off for now
<ochosi> sure, no worries
<ochosi> i added a plugin-part to the wiki
<ochosi> is it as you'd expect?
<ochosi> (staging site, ofc)
<ochosi> alternatively we could have the plugins all on one page
<bluesabre> I think it'd be best to have them on a single page
<ochosi> yeah, with the amount of plugins we have now they can easily fit on one page
<bluesabre> since they don't have many features
<ochosi> ok, converted
<bluesabre> think I might try to get some work done for menulibre now
<ochosi> you mean the classical menu-editing stuff?
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> wasn't that very messy and frustrating? :)
<bluesabre> I've been doing a little bit at a time and thinking about how to best go about it
<bluesabre> I think I've got a pretty clear idea of what to do now
<ochosi> and UI wise?
<bluesabre> for the classic view, I'm going for two panes
<bluesabre> the left pane will be a folding applications view with DnD
<bluesabre> the right pane will be the standard menulibre editor
<bluesabre> just not the iconview
<bluesabre> the modern view will stay the same
<bluesabre> or I can get rid of the modern view and just go full-classic
<bluesabre> since the editor is the good part
<bluesabre> either way, the new design will make it a lot more modular
<bluesabre> and easier to hack on
<ochosi> folding applications?
<ochosi> a listview with extenders?
<bluesabre> a multi-level treeview
<bluesabre> yeah, that
<ochosi> for the categories?
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> i see
<bluesabre> think xfce menu inside of a treeview
<ochosi> sure sure
<bluesabre> or combining the two panes from alacarte
<ochosi> the extenders would show what? apps or just subfolders?
<bluesabre> both
<ochosi> so the right pane would only be in use for the details/editing
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> not bad, but imagine you have tons of apps
<ochosi> the left side will get pretty... long
<bluesabre> it will be completed folder by default, just showing the categories
<bluesabre> and search will still work
<bluesabre> s/folder/folded
<ochosi> sure, i'm just imagining extending a category and ending up with a really long list :)
<bluesabre> it could happen :)
<ochosi> but otoh i don't think there's a much better way
<bluesabre> and it does even with the xfce menu
<bluesabre> I'll try to have something working this/next weekend
<ochosi> wow, sounds nice
<bluesabre> emphasis on try
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i added in a placeholder for the kb-shortcuts, do you want me to keep the autosaved-playlist-location on the todo-list on the first page for you?
<ochosi> anyway, if you don't need that reminder, just feel free to drop it from the frontpage :)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, it's okay to leave the reminder there.
<jjfrv8> I'm having some issues, though, with dokuwiki...
<ochosi> yes?
<jjfrv8> I was trying to figure out how to integrate all the menu pages...
<jjfrv8> it seemed like it was going to create a very large single page but I could not figure out how to break it up...
<jjfrv8> without creating sub-namespaces on the main wiki page...
<ochosi> go ahead and create sub-namespaces
<ochosi> i don't see any issues with that
<jjfrv8> so I wanted to see if just the TOC on the top right of the page would be enough...
<ochosi> e.g. parole:menu:*
<jjfrv8> that's when I got into trouble with formatting
<ochosi> i mean to the worst the TOC helps ppl to navigate
<jjfrv8> just a sec, I'll show you what I mean
<ochosi> sure, thanks
<jjfrv8> as the TOC got longer, it pushed my first screenshot down the page and there was a big gap. So I pasted another image in without the "Figure"
<jjfrv8> and now I any new text wants to flow around the screenshots. So here's my current workaround: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:playground
<jjfrv8> why the first screenshot is not centered like the others, I don't know
<ochosi> hmm strange
<ochosi> looks like a bug in the dokuwiki theme
<jjfrv8> Yeah, in bluesabre's intro page, the first line of text went under the screenshot just fine. It doesn't work that way in my page...
<jjfrv8> it will flow around the first screenshot, unless I make it a "figure"
<bluesabre> you have to tell the image to be centered
<bluesabre> I don't remember how to at this point though
<ochosi> you have to add spaces
<ochosi> instead of {{wiki:usage-intro:intro-main-window-plain.png?nolink |}}
<ochosi> use {{ wiki:usage-intro:intro-main-window-plain.png?nolink |}}
<ochosi> the space after {{ means left-aligned, the one before |}} means right-aligned
<ochosi> both together mean centered
<ochosi> but i'm not sure that really solves your problem
<jjfrv8> ooh, let me try that.
<ochosi> problem is anyway that the TOC takes away some precious width for the first few paragraphs...
<ochosi> ristretto worked around it by adding some text-only stuff on the top of the page: http://docs.xfce.org/apps/ristretto/preferences
<jjfrv8> badda bing! I think that might just do it.
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> although i have to admit the text in ristretto is a bit superfluous, duplicating the TOC :)
<elfy> they perhaps had the same discussion - just had it first :)
<ochosi> hehe, possible
<elfy> shame you can't have to TOC 'floating' so it is always visible and the doc itself fits in the rest of the pane
<jjfrv8> does this look all right? http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:playground
<jjfrv8> it repeats the main window shot but I thought it might be weird to show it with the highlights right off the bat anyway
<ochosi> hm, yeah it's a bit repetetive
<ochosi> as we have a very similar screenshot in "intro"
<ochosi> i don't have a problem with showing the highlights directly, i think that is very nice and useful
<ochosi> (but ideally that screener wouldn't be scaled down)
<jjfrv8> okay, I can left-align it without using 'figure' and that should do it.
<ochosi> righty, go ahead
<ochosi> also, we can figure out these formatting issues when the page is kinda finished
<ochosi> who knows, maybe more notes in the beginning will become necessary
<jjfrv8> ok
<jjfrv8> shall we leave it like this for now? http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:playground
<ochosi> jjfrv8: you can put the text "The three main parts..." above the screenshot, that might help with the alignment
<ochosi> just replace "above" with "below" in the text ;)
<jjfrv8> k
<ochosi> oh, and you could actually link those 3 headlines to parts of the page
<jjfrv8> !
<ochosi> jjfrv8: alright, i think i gotta leave for tonight
<ochosi> feel free to ping me whenever problems occur or when you've finished another part that i can copy over to docs.xfce
<jjfrv8> I think I do too.  Thanks for your help. I might be able to finish enough to copy it over tomorrow.
<ochosi> thanks again for your efforts, really great!
<ochosi> sounds good
<jjfrv8> will do.
<ochosi> have a nice evening everyone
<Noskcaj> Does anyone know why xubuntu-bugs is subscribed to convertall ?
<elfy> I don't
<Noskcaj> It would be a good thing to include in xubuntu, but since it's not, i don't see why -bugs is subscribed
<elfy> the only idea I have is that it was done before I got mails re that bug
<elfy> no idea what it even is 
<Noskcaj> It's a really powerful unit converter, that i now maintain in debian
<elfy> unit converter?
<Noskcaj> e.g. meters to feet
<elfy> oic 
<elfy> I can't see any reason to have that in Xubuntu 
<elfy> not sure why we'd be subscribed to it either, given what it is :)
<elfy> Noskcaj: I can't even see how we're subscribed to it
<elfy> nvm - yes I can lol - time to turn it off and go sit elsewhere ... 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Why does the build.py for catfish import so many unused modules? is it just to check that all dependencies are installed?
<PhilDick> I'm trying to get up-to-speed on testing for 14.04.  I'm looking here: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases, but I don't see any download instructions that describe what environment/setup I need to have in place before testing.  I know I'm newb, any advice appreciated.
<PhilDick> I mean the link to "install instructions" links to a page with no apparent instructions...
<Noskcaj> PhilDick, Are you trying to use a VM or install on actual hardware?
<PhilDick> I could go down either path, I was thinking about setting up a new partition on my actual hardware
<PhilDick> Easiest that gets me going is probably best
<Noskcaj> How much RAM do you have?
<PhilDick> I have older hardware currently, AMD X2 + 4Gb RAM
<PhilDick> I've ran VirtualBox on this box on the past, was usable, but haven't used it lately
<Noskcaj> for a VM, install the program testdrive-gtk. For real hardware, put the iso on a usb or dvd and install it with manual partitioning
<PhilDick> Where do I find xubuntu 14.04 iso?
<Noskcaj> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20131102/ or in testdrive
<PhilDick> Thank you.  I need to figure out testdrive more, but I might start with the iso for now... guess that changes daily though.
<PhilDick> I'm just trying to keep at it for now, keep moving forward and take notes.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I've made a start at pep8 conversion for catfish at lp:~noskcaj/catfish-search/pep8 . Would you like all changes in the one branch?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: Your awesomeness never ends, does it?
<bluesabre> By all means, one branch would be fine.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, thanks, i should have all the pep8/flake8 fixes by the end of the day (australia time).
<bluesabre> fantastic, thanks a lot!
<bluesabre> in case you get excited, don't worry about doing that for menulibre yet, I'm currently rewriting it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: idea (menulibre): use the traditional view for normal editing, use the "new/current view" for search-results
<brainwash> ochosi: just curious, wouldn't it be possible to fork gnome-screensaver and copy the interface of lightd-gtk-greeter?
<brainwash> I still dislike the vt switching :(
<ochosi> that was our initial idea before creating light-locker
<ochosi> but it makes user-switching more cumbersome
<ochosi> and the cleanest approach is to use lightdm
<bluesabre> vt-switching has one very annoying drawback
<bluesabre> audio
<ochosi> (in fact we started out with that, a gnome-screensaver using the .ui file of the gtk-greeter)
<brainwash> well, it would still use lightdm for this
<brainwash> mmh
<bluesabre> ochosi: not sure if that would be a good thing for menulibre or not, but I can definitely experiment with it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: well it's such a pity to see the current view going away... i really like it and think it's easy to use and simple
<ochosi> bluesabre: all for editing the traditional menu, when we might switch to something like whiskermenu (which uses categories as well, not a fixed menu-file afaik)
<ochosi> and then who else uses fixed menus like xfce/xubuntu does atm?
<brainwash> lxde
<bluesabre> oh, we don't use a single fixed file
<bluesabre> if that was the case it would be easy
<ochosi> brainwash: my hope is that the lightdm guys will figure out taking away the pain of vt-switching
<ochosi> brainwash: e.g. with fading or some Mir-trick, who knows
<brainwash> mir trick? xfce won't support mir any time soon
<ochosi> i guess not, but maybe wayland will help
<ochosi> anyway, stripping out the gnome-components isnt that hard, and you can pick up from a commit where we did that with light-locker and then implement the gtk-greeter UI ;)
<brainwash> sounds interesting
<brainwash> btw I was about to create a PPA for xfce4-panel with support gtk3 indicators, but gave up after like 1 minute.. "how the heck do I build the packages?!"
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> local I assume, or?
<ochosi> building locally should work fine with the instructions in the wiki
<brainwash> and how do I upload the packages?
<ochosi> dput?
<brainwash> ok, looks like need to read some more tutorials
<brainwash> I
<brainwash> so far I've only uploaded the changes files and the packages have been built remotely
<ochosi> that's the only way i've done it either
<ochosi> micahg might know more about that
<brainwash> still waiting for someone to create a PPA for the panel, but nothing so far, so why not try it myself :)
<ochosi> yeah, sounds good
<brainwash> btw bug 1205384
<ubottu> bug 1205384 in lxsession (Ubuntu) "Lock can be circumvented by switching to console" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205384
<brainwash> still not fixed
<ochosi> only way to fix it is by using gnome-screensaver or light-locker or something like that
<brainwash> or switch back to xscreensaver
<Noskcaj> brainwash, You need to use dput, with the target as your ppa and this input as a .changes file made by debuild -S
<brainwash> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators
<brainwash> what about the dependencies?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Are they in the ubuntu repositories? (if so, just make them build-dependancies)
<Noskcaj> If not, find a way to link PPAs or upload them
<brainwash> most are, but newer versions are needed also
<Noskcaj> Maybe upload the stuff from the pkg-xfce debian SVN?
<Noskcaj> I don't really know, ask micahg or mr_pouit 
<ali1234> micahg was trying to package the indicator stuff, but got problems
<ali1234> the problem is mainly that we need to package from a random arbitrary git commit, not a real release
<brainwash> maybe it's a bit too complicated for me at this point, started to learn how to build packages for a PPA just yesterday
<ali1234> tweaking something that is already packaged is much easier
<ochosi> actually the branch is mergeable
<ochosi> i hope it will happen soon
<ali1234> ochosi: i found the appindicator problem, and a couple more bugs in the process
<ochosi> ali1234: right, so what's going on there?
<ali1234> well it looks like some gtk3 changes got backported to gtk2, but the special case code in appindicator was not removed
<ochosi> hmpf
<ali1234> i asked tedg about it, but he couldn't remember anything useful
<ochosi> lordy
<ali1234> it's actually in libdbusmenu, not libappindicator
<ochosi> so was he at least interesetd in the fix?
<ali1234> hard to say. i only got a 1 line reply
<ali1234> annoyingly, libdbusmenu cannot be built in a ppa because one of the tests fails only in a ppa - where you cannot get the log to find out why
<ali1234> all this is reported on the relevant bugs, which have been met with stony silence
<ochosi> email to ayatana ML?
<ali1234> i guess so. that ML looks dead tbh... only a couple of posts per week
<ali1234> last time i tried to post my message never got through the moderation queue
<ochosi> there's a moderation queue even if you're subscribed?
<ali1234> i don't think you can post at all if you're not subscribed
<ochosi> hmm
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1247470
<ubottu> bug 1247470 in firefox (Ubuntu) "firefox tooltip sometimes too big" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1247470
<brainwash> looks like greybird
<brainwash> see the attached screenshot
<ali1234> i might just hit the "request merge" button on my libdbusmenu branch... at least then someone might look at it
<ali1234> correction: the ayatana design list is now known as unity-design and hasn't had a post in over a month
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, try with a merge-request
<ochosi> can't hurt
<ochosi> but also be sure to ping someone about it
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm not sure there's much i can do about it, ff isn't even gtk
<ochosi> i've never seen this so far
<brainwash> greybird is most likely not even the cause
<brainwash> so ff is not gtk.. how do you theme it then? o.o
<ochosi> firefox uses XUL and with some black magic it tries to resemble gtk
<ochosi> but some stuff almost always looks different, like tabs
<ochosi> not very noticeable, but also because i decided not to do anything crazy with greybird
<ochosi> tooltips are always square
<ochosi> and more stuff i guess
<brainwash> maybe the next ff release will fix it
<ochosi> that particular bug? yeah, maybe
<ochosi> or are you referring to the UI changes in firefox that are coming up sometime later this year?
<ochosi> (iirc i read something like that a while ago)
<brainwash> the tooltip one
<ochosi> night everyone
<brainwash> ochosi: good night
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1228360 sounds like the same thing we've seen with xfce4-panel
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1228360 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "No clock in menu bar and can't edit Clock settings" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<PhilDick> If there's somewhere else I should ask, please point me there... #ubuntu-quality?
<PhilDick> I'm trying to get testdrive-gtk working... 1) It has two identical looking entries for xubuntu Trusty Tahr 2) When I "launch" either one, nothing happens... is there an environment needed that the package doesn't check for?
<ali1234> yeah #ubuntu-quality is your best bet
<PhilDick> thx
<ali1234> but there won't be anyone there on a saturday night
<PhilDick> what kind of geeks are these??? ;)
<ali1234> paid ones
<PhilDick> LOL
<ali1234> also, i have to day, we know plenty of bugs in xubuntu already
<PhilDick> day = say?
<ali1234> *say
<PhilDick> I just want to get in the loop early so I'm able to get involved...
<PhilDick> I think I can download an iso and point it at that...
<ali1234> this is just my opinion, but i am not really impressed by the iso testing stuff. it appears to be just another step to make bug reporting harder
<PhilDick> Yah, I'm a little ... challenged by the lack of a "just get started testing" howto
<PhilDick> not giving up yet, but only have so much time...
<skellat> ali1234: Make sure you attend the virtual session at Ubuntu Developer Summit in three weeks or so.  Bug Reporting & Quality Assurance will have a panel going on.
<ali1234> skellat: i did all that SRU stuff
<ali1234> i have no idea if i did it right though
<skellat> Someone will comment on the bug if you didn't
<skellat> The current vUDS-1311 panels list is here: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/all/
<ali1234> i never know what to do at vUDS
<skellat> ali1234: From the Xubuntu perspective, mostly observe
<skellat> If you can chime in via IRC, try
<skellat> But mostly observe
<PhilDick> skellat, excellent, I was wondering about those workshops... I'll have to check the UTC it's going on at
<ali1234> they're not workshops - we do do those though
<ali1234> UDS is like planning meetings
<PhilDick> I heard balloons say something about upcoming QA workshops
<ali1234> yeah, that will probably be after UDS
<Noskcaj> PhilDick, Yeah, we've got logs of old ones if you wanted a look
<skellat> The more community-related matters that fall under LoCo Council's remit are being separated to a different summit if we manage to pull things together in time.  Tentatively that's supposed to be scheduled for November 23rd so that'll leave vUDS-1311 a lot more focused on tech & planning.
<ali1234> lol, forking UDS?
<skellat> ali1234: Yep
<Noskcaj> The QA workshops might be different since phill has left most of ubuntu and we think good wiki pages and videos would be more useful
<ali1234> lordy. things are getting weird
<PhilDick> Noskcaj sounds useful, can you point me towards them? IRC logs I guess?
<skellat> ali1234: It more comes down to a time factor.  For LoCo Council it is easier for the others to participate on the weekend.  The vUDS-1308 schedule was a little too jam packed so taking stuff that would be under our remit out should balance nicely.
<ali1234> PhilDick: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<ali1234> skellat: i never really understood what the council does anyway
<ali1234> except for "free PR"
<skellat> ali1234: Equip, Advise, Mentor for local communities.  Help them keep going, intervene with Canonical if they need help, and otherwise serve as back-end support.
<skellat> All of this being said, I'm probably going to have to give thought to Three Nights of Xubuntu appearing again
<ali1234> but what do LoCos actually do?
<Noskcaj> ali1234, translations, support, mirror hosting, installfests, release partys
<skellat> To a certain extent, this session on testing the upgrade path from 12.04 to 14.04 makes me nervous: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21973/core-1311-lts-upgrade-testing/
<PhilDick> thanks for the link ali1234. Also, I've moved to only running LTS's so I'm... wondering what makes you nervous?  I have to reboot to another partition, brb
<ali1234> there's different types of LTS now too, with enablement or without...
<skellat> Generally we don't have hardware enablement stacks in Xubuntu so that's not an issue
<skellat> Ubuntu gets those but we don't
<PhilDick> hmmm, tell me more when I come back...
<ali1234> automated anything makes me nervous
<ali1234> if the developer remembered to write a test, they probably remembered not to cause the bug in the first place
#xubuntu-devel 2013-11-03
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, What's the point of line 766, catfish/CatfishWindow.py ?
<PhilDick> you were saying about ...
<skellat> PhilDick: The jump from LTS to another version can get exciting
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: p = subprocess.Popen(command, shell=False)?
<skellat> For any other version we advise a chain of upgrades and not making a giant leap
<skellat> With the HWE point releases out there and the variety of install media, it is going to be interesting to see if we can assure the LTS to LTS upgrade leap
<skellat> Some of the issues thrown in the description look a bit odd
<skellat> Hopefully it is just nothing
<skellat> But, I'll likely be watching that session closely
<PhilDick> Ah... maybe I can help with that testing... but maybe I'd be wiser to install Xubuntu 14.04LTS fresh...
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, You ever use p again
<Noskcaj> Or have i missed something
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> I guess not
<bluesabre> p is the process, but since it starts it and moves on, we don't need to store it.
<skellat> PhilDick: It'll be one of the great questions we won't know an answer to until next April
<PhilDick> I've moved to Xubuntu and LTS's only... I guess I'm not as daring as I used to be... or don't have as much spare time ;)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Is there any reason catfish_lib/__init__.py imports stuff?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, My current branch fixes all but 5 warnings (excluding the build.py). http://paste.ubuntu.com/6350485/
<ali1234> yay, finally some movement on the dbusmenu bug :)
<ali1234> merge proposal sent
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I added a bullet to the Preferences section to point out the location of the auto-saved playlist: http://imagebin.org/275630
<jjfrv8> Is that location okay? And did you want to say anything more, like why one might want to find this file?
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: that seems like a good location. Some users have asked where it is in the past, so it seems like something people might want to know
<jjfrv8> cool, thanks.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, since the Preferences page has been updated, I guess you'll need to copy that again to xfce.docs
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I'm working on Usage today and should have slickymaster's work moved over and some more items of mine done...
<jjfrv8> so that might be good enough to copy over later as well
<elfy> that's looking awesome :)
<elfy> as much as I hate that word ;)
<jjfrv8> elfy, glad you think so :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: sounds good, i'll do that late in the evening ~22utc
<ochosi> jjfrv8: just ping me with the pages that are ready/updated when you're done and i'll take care of it
<jjfrv8> ochosi, will do
<ochosi> bluesabre: guess we should include somewhere that the docs are only for parole>=0.6, what do you think?
<brainwash> ochosi: just noticed that and didn't check the code yet, does the lightdm gtk greeter first show the background specified in the conf file and then immediately replaces it with the user one?
<ochosi> brainwash: sorry, i'm on the train, very spotty coverage
<ochosi> let's postpone an meaningful conversation ;)
<ochosi> s/an/any/
<brainwash> ochosi: sure
<jjfrv8> ochosi, the Usage and Preferences pages are ready for you to copy over.
<jjfrv8> The remaining sections that are missing from Usage are DVD and Video. I may start on them today, but they won't be ready before EOD.
<jjfrv8> I'll work on them in the playground and won't bring them over until they're ready.
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, there's a lot of backlog to read from yesterday about the Parole docs, and I'm not sure if you'll see that before this...
<jjfrv8> but I just wanted to give you the heads up that I moved your sections over to the main Usage page so ochosi could copy them to the production xfce.docs
<jjfrv8> if you need to edit them, make sure you work on the real Usage section and not on the playground version anymore.
<jjfrv8> bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi: isn't that understood with upstream documentation?
<bluesabre> "The manuals on this website are written for the latest stable release of the module. At this moment this means the manuals apply to Xfce 4.8 and 4.10. "
<bluesabre> so I guess once xfce 4.12 is released, I guess thats fair
<ali1234> ochosi: bug 1239710 seems to fix the bug where the datetime doesn't appear on first boot
<ubottu> bug 1239710 in indicator-session (Ubuntu Saucy) "indicator-datetime and -session missing ~10% of the time" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239710
<brainwash> ochosi: the greeter does set the background according to the config file first, and then applies the user background if available
<brainwash> ochosi: so if we can improve the greeter -> desktop transition (I lost the motivation to understand the X client/server error triggered by xfdesktop when xwfm4 is cloning the root background), we should also fix the greeter to not set the background twice (config and user one)
<brainwash> or am I the only one who dislikes even the smallest screen flicker? :)
<elfy> I don't like flicker but find I notice that sort of thing less and less 
<tolga> sa
<Noskcaj> hey tolga 
<tolga> i don't speak english. some
<tolga> :/
<tolga> Noskcaj
<Noskcaj> tolga, There should be an irc channel for whatever language you speak
<tolga> they are not online 
<tolga> i look list of channel but not turkish channel
<Noskcaj> oh
<elfy> tolga: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-tr/
<tolga> thanks elfy, I'm joined #ubuntu-tr
<elfy> ok
<micahg> knome: I might be in transit at 22:00, I should be around shortly thereafter
<micahg> knome: I'm looking at 22:30 right now for approximate meeting time
 * micahg is away now
<Noskcaj> I might be able to make some of the meeting, depends on what class i have first
<knome> micahg, yup, i'm here
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre, Unit193? :)
 * skellat can observe but is trying to get scripts written for two podcasts that have to be recorded tonight
 * elfy is lurking with his 'oh no - that's not much time for me' head on :)
<knome> m-hm
<bluesabre> knome?
<bluesabre> I'm early!
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> hehe!
<knome> yeah... we might need to wait for a bit to get micah around
<knome> but that's okay
<knome> (at least for me)
<bluesabre> no hurry here
<bluesabre> I was just playing super mario galaxy 2
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<knome> and yep, hi elfy and skellat 
<brainwash> a meeting now?
<knome> brainwash, yep.
<knome> well, in some time.
<elfy> brainwash: not a normal one - an extra :)
<brainwash> unusual time
<knome> brainwash, yes, was announced in the meeting minutes and is mentioned in the meetings wikipage since thu though
<brainwash> ok
<Noskcaj-school> What did i miss?
<elfy> brainwash: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-10-31-15.14.log.html#l-105
<elfy> Noskcaj-school: nothing - waiting for people 
<knome> Noskcaj-school, nothing, we're still waiting for micah
<Noskcaj-school> ok
<knome> oho, elfy beat me in speed
<knome> i must be getting old
<elfy> not happening often ... wait for 2015 for next one
<brainwash> wait.. what?! you consider dropping the bottom panel? :(
<elfy> knome: and you'd have to hurry to catch me up :)
<elfy> brainwash: yep
<knome> elfy, hehe
<Noskcaj-school> brainwash: no one uses the bottom panel
<pleia2> oh hi
<brainwash> I do, on my test installation
<elfy> pleia2: hi 
<bluesabre> hey pleia2!
<ochosi> ot'll take me like 10 more mins to get home
<ochosi> was travelling the whole day
<elfy> bluesabre: I can see you on the forum ... 
<ochosi> almost there now
<knome> ochosi, sure, in line with micah's schedule ;)
<bluesabre> elfy, indeed
<knome> ochosi, so don't hurry too much, just take your time
<elfy> ochosi: a lot of travel 
<Noskcaj-school> bluesabre: While you're here, do you think you could fix the last 5 pep8 issues in catfish? i left them since they actually affect the code
<bluesabre> l
<ochosi> knome: thanks, not eaSy to walk and tpye
<knome> ochosi, i see
<bluesabre> Hey Noskcaj-school
<ochosi> as you can read :)
<knome> no typos though1
<knome> except from my side
<knome> but i'm not walking
<bluesabre> what are the last pep8 issues, or is there a way to verify that automatically?
<ochosi> k, see you in abitÃÂ¤
<knome> :)
<Noskcaj-school> bluesabre: sudo apt-get install pep8, then pep8 */*.py in the main directory
<elfy> bluesabre: http://tinyurl.com/qymdz7d
<bluesabre> thanks elfy!
<elfy> welcome :)
<ochosi> right, well i'm here reading now
<knome> yep
<knome> welcome
<knome> still waiting
<ochosi> so what's up with evryone else?
<pleia2> I'm in hong kong :)
<bluesabre> :O
<knome> i'm king kong
<elfy> well I wasn't expecting you to say that pleia2 
<bluesabre> s/king/donkey
<Noskcaj-school> I'm in science class
<pleia2> elfy: haha
<pleia2> elfy: got your friend sorted with etherpad
<elfy> oh cool - thanks
<ochosi> i just travelled back to my home country, it's getting *late* here :)
<elfy> pleia2: that e-mail completely confused me to start with 
<knome> ochosi, home as in austria or italy?
<knome> bluesabre, heh
<ochosi> .at
<knome> cool
<knome> you still have your flat there, or did you give it away?
<ochosi> same tz anyway
<ochosi> atill have a couch..
<knome> lol
<knome> in the same flat?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> that's nice then
<ochosi> well...
<knome> isn't?
<ochosi> it's fine, it just doesnt feel like the same, obviously
<knome> sure
<micahg-work> sorry for the delay
<knome> that's okay
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: ping
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu meeting: Xfce 4.11 components in 14.04 and more
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Nov  3 22:39:21 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Noskcaj-school> whiskermenu 1.2 has just been released, it will be ready for upload this week.
<knome> #topic Cherry-picking Xfce 4.11 components 
<ochosi> ok
<knome> so,
<ochosi> just arrived
<knome> let me start with what i think
<knome> we should keep the 4.11 components we have in 13.10
<ochosi> ping eric_the_idiot 
<knome> in addition, we should drop the gtk3 indicators patch into 14.04
<ochosi> +1
<eric_the_idiot> ochosi, pong
<knome> as well as the new xfdesktop features
<Noskcaj-school> +1, but try and backport some of the patches from settings 4.11.1
<Noskcaj-school> Nearlky everything else needs the new xfce4ui
<Noskcaj-school> *nearly
<knome> we can discuss backporting/SRUing gtk3 indicators to 13.10, but that's not a high-priority, i would say medium
<micahg-work> +1
<micahg-work> to knome
<knome> the reason why i additionally want the xfdesktop features in is that they will make it easier for the user to control their wallpapers 
<knome> 1) they allow setting a specific dir to look for wallpapers instead of the system-wide one
<micahg-work> we already have that though, right?  I wasn't talking about going backwards
<ochosi> yeah, and it goes hand-in-hand with the new display-dialog (helps ppl to set their wallpapers per display)
<knome> no, i don't think we have that
<ochosi> yeah, we don't
<knome> so the new-new thing for 14.04 would be: gtk3 indicators and new xfdesktop release
<knome> and i will personally promise i will organize enough testing for them
<elfy> read that ;)
<knome> if not else, i'll make my mum test it.
<skellat> If we can squash LP Bug 1208204 via backports that may help with perception issues we have about 13.10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<skellat> Which would require the GTK3 things
<micahg-work> well, as long as xfdesktop doesn't risk LTS -> LTS upgrades or has major dependencies, I'm fine with that
<ochosi> skellat: yeah, or some less intrusive fix, not sure whether it's possible. ali1234?
<brainwash> the uproar about the broken sound indicator is now almost gone anyway :)
<knome> micahg-work, as ochosi said, xfdesktop should take care of the migration itself
<ochosi> eric_the_idiot: any upgrade issues you can see?
<micahg-work> well, at the very least, we can throw it in backports
<micahg-work> if there's demand (GTK3 indicators)
<Noskcaj-school> xfwm might be worth investigating, vsync is a good thing to have. But i'm not sure how stable it is
<micahg-work> I just need the testing
<brainwash> what about the new xfwm4 release with vsync support?
<brainwash> Noskcaj-school: :D
<knome> the focues should be getting 14.04 in a *good* shape
<Noskcaj-school> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: that's the same with every release, that's one reason why you get more relaxed with each release...
<knome> and with that, telling people to try to get along until that is released...
<ochosi> knome: +1
<knome> we can of course write a blog article with updates on the most irritating bugs
<knome> and their workarounds
<knome> and if we have time, backports
<ochosi> let's hope not too many...
<bluesabre> im back
<ochosi> wb bluesabre 
<knome> ochosi, i'm referring to things we already know, pretty much the release notes mentioned bugs
<knome> there hasn't been too many new things after that
<ochosi> knome: yeah, we should knock those down. i'll mention one more thing that's looming ahead a bit later...
<knome> go ahead
<micahg-work> I'd be for backporting 4.12 to trusty-backports assuming we can get sufficient reverse dependency testing
<knome> yes, considering 4.12 is released during the trusty support period...
<ochosi> well the logind transition leaves us with a borked xfce4-powerman
<knome> bah..
<micahg-work> haha
<knome> okay, that's stupid.
<skellat> And Lennart Poettering is talking about breaking logind again
<knome> we should fix that.
<ochosi> xfce4-powerman doesn't support logind at all
<micahg-work> ochosi, we can hopefully come up with a patch for that
<ochosi> micahg-work: "we" = who?
<knome> let me do some #infos
<micahg-work> someone should be able to
<brainwash> bug 1222021
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<micahg-work> well, is upstream planning to solve that?
<ochosi> yeah, the open question is *who*
<skellat> Is there a way to get rid of logind as a dependency for us in the mix?
<ochosi> not in time for 14.04 i think
<knome> #info New Xfce 4.11 features to be dropped into 14.04: GTK3 indicator support, new xfdesktop release
<micahg-work> I think we'd be better off writing the patch...
<brainwash> the patch does already exist
<micahg-work> a working one?
<knome> yes, that sounds like a good idea and a justifiable use of time
<brainwash> micahg-work: didn't test it yet
<micahg-work> well, if it works, let's get upstream to approve it, then we can move forward
<knome> #info Xfce 4.12 will be backported to Trusty if enough testing resources are available
 * bluesabre equips testing hat
 * pleia2 as well
<ochosi> micahg-work: the powerman isnt actively developed upstream, not sure we'd get much feedback
<ochosi> and systemd is a *hot* topic (as in: flamey)
<micahg-work> ochosi, is there a suggested replacement?  is that something we need to either pick up development for or find an alternative?
<skellat> ochosi: Mark Shuttleworth and Lennart Poettering have been arguing repeatedly on Google Plus about it
<brainwash> there is even a patch for xfce4-powerman to use logind directly instead of upower for suspend/hibernate
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9963
<knome> #info Xfce power manager doesn't support systemd; we want a patch for that if at all possible
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9963 in General "upower is no longer doing suspend/hibernate, switch to logind" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> skellat: i know
<ochosi> skellat: and it doesnt help...
<knome> micahg-work, there is always gnome-power-manager, but it isn't too long since we switched away from that...
<knome> #nick team
<ochosi> micahg-work: no, but i'm just saying looking at how xfce is moving along upstream, i think they'll be cautious about new depends/recommends
<knome> #action team to investigate patching xfce4-power-manager or finding alternatives
<meetingology> ACTION: team to investigate patching xfce4-power-manager or finding alternatives
<ochosi> i think the alternative is an easy UI for systemd/logind
<micahg-work> I'm for corsac's suggestion of runtime support for it
<ochosi> for what's currently stored in /etc/systemd/logind.conf
<ochosi> and dropping xfce4-powerman
<brainwash> ochosi: why not re-use xfce4-powerman :P
<ochosi> and using e.g. indicator-power
<ochosi> or some other applet to display battery status
<ochosi> brainwash: no reason against that, apart from not having any upstream maintainer/dev
<bluesabre> does xfce4-powerman handle screen-blanking, or is that something else?
<bluesabre> ochosi: we could always adopt yet another forgotten project :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: theoretically yes, but i think xscreensaver does that now
<micahg-work> if indicator-power will do what we need, then that's fine, otherwise, maybe we can pick up maintenance of xfce4-powerman together with corsac?  I'd hate to reinvent the wheel
<brainwash> it's X, powerman just sets the parameters
<bluesabre> but aren't we wanting to move away from xscreensaver?
<knome> yes...
<ochosi> bluesabre: yes, if we are, then this would be a solution:
<knome> i think we should move away from xscreensaver in favor of light-locker
<micahg-work> fine by me, should be quite a bit lighter as well
<bluesabre> I agree, and I think ubuntu is heading that direction as well based on their interest
<brainwash> micahg-work: I think so too, the patches do exist already and could be extended if needed
<ochosi> 1) use light-locker 2) use X11's screensaver-extension to blank the screen 3) use a logind/X11-screensaver ext dialog (we'd have to write that) to control it
<knome> micahg-work, and it would be a shame to throw out all the work we've done to get to this point!
<knome> and yeah, ubuntu wants light-locker as well
<ochosi> fwiw, light-locker has already been uploaded to trusty
<knome> was micahg CC'd/TO'd in that email?
<ochosi> i've talked to the uploader, but it hasn't been decided yet whether it'll be default afaik
<knome> ochosi, since they seemed very interested about it, we should try to collaborate with them
<ochosi> those processes aren't extremely transparent tbh
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<knome> ochosi, or at least try to change information and track the progress
<ochosi> we've recently set up a translation portal for light-locker btw ;)
<knome> yay
<ochosi> i can #info that later if you want
<micahg-work> well, if Ubuntu doesn't move to it by default, I don't know that we want to be the pioneers in an LTS
<brainwash> the lubuntu guys would love to use light-locker :)
<ochosi> hihi
<ochosi> evil comment, brainwash 
<knome> sure, and #info stuff about collaborating too as appropriate
<bluesabre> hehe
<knome> micahg-work, well, same as with 4.11 components; i'd really like that in and i will organize enough testing.
<knome> micahg-work, so please let's move forward with it and only not do it if it looks like it's going to be broken...
<ochosi> #info it would be great if users could help wth translations for light-locker here: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/light-locker/ 
<knome> micahg-work, again, it's one of those things that we have prepared almost since the last LTS...
<micahg-work> knome, ?  we're responsible for the xfce components in the LTS, so our testing/fixing suffices, I'd rather us not be responsible for light-locker as well if we can avoid it
<ochosi> #info for info or assistance on the translations (about 10 strings) or transifex, feel free to ping ochosi on freenode.org
<knome> micahg-work, i understand that. and yes, i would like to avoid being responsible for that as well, but i don't think the fear of having to maintain should be the reason keeping us from using it.
<micahg-work> oh, I thought light-locker was created by Canonical, if it's an Xfce component, that's fine
<ochosi> it's neither
<knome> that
<knome> but it's something ochosi and bluesabre are familiar with
<ochosi> it was created by me and cavalier (an xfce-dev)
<micahg-work> oh, then, by all means :)
<knome> or at least ochosi :P
<knome> great!
<micahg-work> is it in Debian yet
<ochosi> but canonical are looking into picking it up by default
<micahg-work> which would be totally awesome
<knome> micahg-work, while we are at that, i want mugshot and menulibre in the seed for 14.04 as well. :)
<knome> micahg-work, they are not core components, and they are by bluesabre, who will hopefully have uploading rights by the release of 14.04
<ochosi> micahg-work: i haven't done any extra communication on that at all, but from what i read there was a proposal a while ago
<bluesabre> I'll get both of those in debian soon
<micahg-work> ok, I can't do much for the next 2 weeks, after that, I'll have more time again for Xubuntu
<bluesabre> working on the alacarte-replacing rewrite for menulibre
<knome> #info Other new components to drop for 14.04: light-locker, MenuLibre, Mugshot
<bluesabre> mugshot needs an update and then I'll try to get it in debian again
<knome> was that everything that was mentioned?
<micahg-work> menulibre should also make us a bit lighter
<knome> yep
<knome> and mugshot should make us user-friendlier
<pleia2> ++
<knome> micahg-work, what about python 2/3?
<micahg-work> sounds like this'll be an awesome LTS
<knome> yes, that's the plan...
<knome> that's the evil plan i've been carrying around since 12.10
<knome> you never would have guessed that! HA!
<micahg-work> knome, it would be nice to move to python3 only, but I"m more concerned about stability than that since we have only 3 years of support
<knome> micahg-work, sure, just asking as it was mentioned in the roadmap brainstorming
<knome> now that we have a bigger ISO it's not a showkiller.
<micahg-work> right
<brainwash> bigger ISO... mmh, libreoffice :)
<knome> ochosi, did you want to talk about whiskermenu?
<micahg-work> noooooooOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
<ochosi> yeah, good point
<knome> oh btw,
<ochosi> whiskermenu would be a nice addon and replacement for our current menu
<knome> ubuntu lately changed their system requirements to 1GB of memory
<knome> so we are now well under
<ochosi> it's really fast and lightweight, i've tested it for a while, it adds search-capability to the menu (sweet!)
<ochosi> and it's far more customizable than the integrated menu
<knome> how does menulibre work with those menus?
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<knome> or, in other words, how useful is menulibre for a user using whiskermenu
<bluesabre> same
<bluesabre> whiskermenu is a searchable xfce menu
<bluesabre> same thing, different interface
<knome> okay
<bluesabre> so when I fix menulibre, it will work fine with either
<ochosi> we could bind it to a kb-shortcut
<ochosi> e.g. super+space
<ochosi> so users could quickly bring it up to launch apps
<brainwash> isn't it alt+esc right now?
<ochosi> (just as a more understandable and visually integrated alternative to xfce4-appfinder)
<brainwash> ctrl+esc I mean
<ochosi> (although appfinder is atm still more powerful with custom commands)
<ochosi> brainwash: well, up to us to decide i think, mine was just a suggestion
<knome> ochosi, would you be willing to put up some kind of spec for the proposed whiskermenu integration with some highlights and screenshots why it would be so awesome, as well as talking a bit about the panel layout (with possibly a finalish proposal on that), ideally before thursday?
<ochosi> knome: in general yes, before thursday is not realistic (PM)
<knome> well the deadline for finalizing specs is november 21
<bluesabre> ochosi: could you talk to mrpouit and get whiskermenu in the xfce-4.10 and/or xfce-4.12 ppa?
<knome> but would be good to have *something* on that before thu, since we're discussing and approving most of the roadmap then
<skellat> bluesabre: Is it in on the Debian side?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think there's already a PPA (give me a sec)
<micahg-work> knome, FWIW, I'll talk to barry, if there are plans to drop python2.7 to universe, I'd be much more encouraged to port to python3
<knome> micahg-work, oki
<knome> #nick micahg
<micahg-work> bluesabre, I could probably upload that
<bluesabre> skellat, I believe it is in debian now, will check
<lderan> woo for pyton 3
<lderan> python*
<knome> #action micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation
<bluesabre> micahg-work, sweet
<micahg-work> bluesabre, remind me in a couple days
<bluesabre> will do, thanks micahg-work
<skellat> bluesabre: packages.d.o doesn't show it
<bluesabre> skellat: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin_1.1.1-1.html
<knome> bluesabre, micahg-work: you can do #action items if you want reminders. i'll go through those on thu
<bluesabre> its in new
<ochosi> knome: there's a really nice blog about it: http://gottcode.wordpress.com/category/open-source/whisker-menu/
<ochosi> (by the dev)
<pleia2> cool
<ochosi> there are screenshots and all the bells and whistles
<micahg-work> #action micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs
<ochosi> thanks micahg-work 
<ochosi> please check it out folks, it seems like a nice improvement and would justify getting rid of the bottom panel (that no-one seems to use anymore :))
<lderan> will do :)
<brainwash> the switch to whisker menu feels like copying linux mint xfce edition :P
<knome> ochosi, feel free to paste that link to the roadmap page
<ochosi> brainwash: well, it was the other way round for a while now, wasn't it ;)
<bluesabre> brainwash, but we'll do it better ;)
<micahg-work> seems there are about 130 rdepends for python2.7 in main
<brainwash> yeah, it will be awesome
<elfy>  ochosi - I quote like whiskermenu 
<knome> so...
<knome> do we want to talk about other things that we want to land in 14.04?
<ochosi> knome: done
<bluesabre> ooh, a new wallpaper!
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> or other development-related issues that should be resolved ASAP?
<knome> bluesabre, bollocks, we'll use the old one
<ochosi> well, folks, help us to find *free* wallpapers
<skellat> Eventually there'll be movement on the -core draft seed but nothing tonight
<brainwash> we just rotate the current one, just like the ubuntu guys do it
<ochosi> or contact the authors of the images of this page and help us get them to change the license: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Raring/Wallpapers
<ochosi> they should all be cc-by-sa
<ochosi> knome: and i guess we should move that page to trusty... ^
<knome> ochosi, rather copy it and add a link to the raring page saying it's postponed
<knome> ochosi, i can do that unless you want to do it.
<ochosi> knome: no, please do, brb
<brainwash> what about xmir? definitively no, right?
<skellat> brainwash: We haven't heard of anything new from them and haven't had an intervening UDS yet.
<pleia2> I think it's highly unlikely that ubuntu will go with it in an LTS
<pleia2> if they try, I think we can do more tests, otherwise push to 14.10
<knome> ochosi, moved to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/CommunityWallpapers
<knome> err, copied :P
<ochosi> knome: great, #info it? :>
<bluesabre> :D
<brainwash> right, the development of xmir seems to be rather slow and some things still do not work properly
<ochosi> knome: we could also do a call on the ml, but specifically announce that there'll be an internal council that decides on the final selection
<pleia2> brainwash: it actually seems fast for me, it's just a HUGE undertaking
<knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/CommunityWallpapers
<ochosi> knome: xubuntu being a do-ocracy and all...
<knome> ochosi, yup-di-do
<bluesabre> d'oh-ocracy?
<Noskcaj-school> :)
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> #action ochosi announces the community wallpapers project on the mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi announces the community wallpapers project on the mailing list
<skellat> brainwash: Never underestimate the possibility of unexpected breakthroughs when you least expect them.  They're trying to supplant over 25 years of technical archaeology so they have a monumental task at hand.
<knome> oops, i just wrote in ochosi instead of knome! :)
<bluesabre> haha
<ochosi> knome: bastard! :)
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> not an accident
 * ochosi feels tricked
<knome> well actually, i'm not a basterd..
<knome> :P
<lderan> :P
<skellat> :-!
<bluesabre> :wq!
<knome> ochosi, transifex sucks, do i really have to sign up for an account to be able to translate anything? (or in other words, if you send me the .pot-file, i'll reply with a fi.po)
<ochosi> knome: transifex.com has a really nice web-interface, but if you prefer, you can also have it your way (email)
<knome> i didn't seem to be able to get it delivered
<elfy> ochosi: I might be able to get someone to do the Galician translation 
<ochosi> elfy: great! thanks
<knome> or at least i needed to allow loads of JS, and still didn't work...
<elfy> ochosi: but they'd not want to be signing up for anything 
<ochosi> knome: well let's finish the meeting before we talk transifex :)
<knome> ochosi, hehe.
<knome> so anything else?
<knome> micahg-work, you content with everything?
<Noskcaj-school> I didn't see any python or whiskermenu stuff, but i assume that's my internet crashing
<elfy> Noskcaj-school: yep
<knome> Noskcaj-school, micahg-work is looking at python stuff, ochosi does a whiskermenu spec at some point
<Noskcaj-school> log reading time
<knome> #agreed 14.04 is going to be an awesome and solid LTS!
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Nov  3 23:32:07 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-11-03-22.39.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-11-03-22.39.html
<knome> ta
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<bluesabre> thanks knome!
 * knome bows
<elfy> thanks all 
<ochosi> ta
<micahg-work> thanks knome 
<micahg-work> if we need to port to python3, I'll have to brush up on python I suppose
<knome> micahg-work, just ask for help; i'm sure at least lderan is willing to help 
<elfy> I'm off now
<ochosi> what's left to port from our default seed and if yes, can we drop it? :D
<lderan> \o/ python
<knome> some gimp plugins
<bluesabre> and I am often around
<micahg-work> knome, oh, sure, but I'm going to need to review patches at the very least ;)
<elfy> you can't have lderan - I claimed him already :p
<ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks for all your docs-work!! starting the xerox now
<elfy> check the m/l ... 
 * skellat goes back to writing his speaking scripts so that new episodes of "LISTen: An LISNews.org Program" and "Burning Circle" can be recorded tonight
<knome> micahg-work, sure. but you can leave the rest of the tasks for others ;)
<lderan> elfy,  :P
<Noskcaj-school> I'm willing to help port python, and i will have whiskermenu ready today, then it's just waiting for the debian NEW queue
<knome> skellat, have fun with that
<knome> ochosi, so... transifex.
<Noskcaj-school> isn't freenode a .net ?
<knome> yes, freenode.net
<ochosi> knome: yeah? :)
<knome> ochosi, so where do i get the file?
<ochosi> it works just fine for me
<ochosi> you dont need a file
<knome> hmm.
<ochosi> or do you really want a .pot file?
<ochosi> if you do, you can have it
<knome> no, not necessarily
<knome> let me fetch a mouse
<Noskcaj-school> knome: check the meeting info, it says freenode.org
<ochosi> start here: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/light-locker/language/fi/
<knome> lderan, ^
<ochosi> knome: or to be more exact, here: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/light-locker/language/fi/
<ochosi> (for finnish, that is)
<lderan> ooo
<ochosi> 2/10 translated :)
<ochosi> in .fi
<ochosi> i don't have much transifex exp yet, so if you hit dead-ends or need admin approval anywhere, lemme know
<knome> ochosi, then what.
<ochosi> we just set this up a few days ago
<knome> ochosi, i click stuff, but nothing shows me strings or allow me to download anything.
<ochosi> knome: that page i linked to shows the complete translation interface, i can't help you if you block all the js :]
<knome> i have allowed all js, but nothing
<bluesabre> actually, whisker menu does not show a traditional menu
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i was wondering about your comment on that
<bluesabre> so current menulibre would be pretty sufficient
<ochosi> remember my comment from one or two days ago, whining about the current menulibre going to ****
<bluesabre> I'd be happy with not having to super rewrite it
<bluesabre> knome, go ahead and approve whiskermenu! :D
<ochosi> +100
<knome> approve where what huh=
<bluesabre> just say ye
<bluesabre> s
<knome> hah.
<knome> not yet
<knome> i don't personally use *a menu*
<ochosi> yeah, the good thing about whiskermenu is that it uses categories
<ochosi> and search
<ochosi> not a *fixed*, old-school menu
<ochosi> that gives lots of headaches and grief when trying to create an editor for it (bluesabre)
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> or alacarte
<bluesabre> which keeps having bugs
<ochosi> yeah, headahces, griefs, or alacarte
<bluesabre> saying that it doesn't work
<ochosi> you can name all those in one breath
<ochosi> just a funky sidenote: xfdesktop still has a garcon-based menu (eric_the_idiot)
<ochosi> not that you'd have to be able to edit that one
<ochosi> but it'd still be there
<ElderDryas> FWIW, if one wanted to check out Whiskermenu w/o installing it or using a ppa, grab a copy of the SolydX Live CD (well DVD:)
<ochosi> ElderDryas: at least if you consider dl-ing an .iso less effort than adding a PPA ;)
<ochosi> (no offense)
<ElderDryas> ochosi: I won't have to unstall a ppa when I'm done (no offense:)
<ochosi> wait, "unstall" is a mix of "install" and "uninstall"? :D
<ElderDryas> no, fumble fingers in typing, I mean uninstall (eating dinner, typing and watching football all at the same time)
<ochosi> ElderDryas: hehe, hf multi-tasking then!
<ElderDryas> no, that's the problem...single tasking slowly :)
<ochosi> :]
<knome> ochosi, unstall means to get something moving.. so can mean either installing or uninstalling ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-27
<bluesabre> you bet I was
<ochosi> poke what?
<bluesabre> ochosi: nvm, you're free to go 
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> anyway, i'm quite happy with how productive today's sprint was
<ochosi> so kudos to everyone
<ochosi> i'll have to set the next meeting soon, then we can see whether there's anything left to discuss
<ochosi> bluesabre: have you seen the new MR by andrew for the greeter yet?
<ochosi> so many options...
<bluesabre> ochosi: haven't seen it yet
<bluesabre> ochosi: actually, those look like nice improvements
<ochosi> yeah, they are, it's just such a high level of customizability
<ochosi> (keeping in mind that it's "just a greeter")
<skellat> greeterD
<bluesabre> right... eventually we'll run out of things to add though ;)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> as long as things are still stable, i'm fine with it anyway
<ochosi> btw, i saw an odd bug about the greeter spawning new indicator processes with each login/logout
<ochosi> sounds annoying for machines that run in public places with many users logging in and out each day
<bluesabre> yeah, I think there might be a fix in the queue for that one
<ochosi> oh cool
<ochosi> that'd be relevant also for ll2.0
<ochosi> imagine un/locking restarting indicators...
<ochosi> i mean spawning indicators each time
<ochosi> not really sure how ll2.0 and indicators are going to work anyway
<ochosi> anyway, night all!
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, any regressions likely by swapping evince to evince-gtk, or should we probably wait for the huge 3.14 drop?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I have no idea, Gnome isn't something to predict.  I don't see -gtk picking up any new ones though, Debian still has it.
<bluesabre> ok
<Unit193> bluesabre: And, you may want to talk to Corsac as well.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, We already have evince 3.14, so it's unlikely anything will break form it
<knome> added a mention of the release notes to near the top at http://xubuntu.org/help/
<ochosi> folks, have any of you seen this sort of corruption in evince? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-10-27-124835.php
<ochosi> (seems related to ubuntu patching out the headerbars and faking a toolbar instead)
<elfy> ochosi: yea - can confirm that 3.14.1 in vvampire
<elfy> get a bunch of this, which looks familiar in a terminal (evince:12247): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_show: assertion 'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> elfy: hmpf, uncool. we could test whether it's there in evince-gtk too
<ochosi> hmpf, yeah, at least in U the corruption happens for both evince and evince-htk
<ochosi> gtk
<bluesabre> that looks annoying... is that new with an updated theme? it looked fine when I tested earlier
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, it is. if i open evince without a file, it looks fine. if i open a pdf, i get this sorta corruption
<ochosi> installed Ub2 and then upgraded
<brainwash> bluesabre: any news re bug 1382977 ?
<ubottu> bug 1382977 in thunar "Thunar open default not respecting mimetype" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382977
<brainwash> did you or anyone else test the fix from upstream?
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so I removed evince, installed -gtk
<elfy> when I start it - no corruption as you, then open 1 and no corruption, open another and get corruption
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, silly bug :/
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> the upside seems to be that evince-gtk seems to work just as well/badly as evince
<elfy> and re the mimetype issue above - if thunar in vampire includes the upstream fix - then it appears to be ok as I don't get the same thing now here
<elfy> ochosi: does this evince issue have a bug report or need one?
<ochosi> it doesn't have one yet
<ochosi> i've been pinging some folks in u-desktop about it, to see whether it appears in unity too
<elfy> ok - I'll do one - start with LP 
<ochosi> just to know what to file it against (shimmer-themes or evince)
<ochosi> okeydokey, thanks!
<elfy> I can confirm or deny in unity first then :)
<ochosi> you have unity installedÃ
<ochosi> ?
<elfy> no - but I tend to - when *we* get some issues I like to confirm in unity so I can hassle balloons :p
<ochosi> ok :)
 * ochosi hasn't tried unity in years
<elfy> it's only ever a vm 
<elfy> it is better than it was seemingly - but I don't use it for long enough to really tell
<elfy> oh
<elfy> odd
<elfy> ochosi: so do you see it with all pdf's?
<ochosi> humm, i haven't noticed a pattern
<ochosi> it just seemed to pop up randomely
<ochosi> have you?
<elfy> not seeing a pattern 
<ochosi> mka
<ochosi> y
<elfy> but if I rollup the title bar and then roll down a corrupted one is then uncorrupted
<ochosi> yeah, which is why i think it's just a gtk rendering issue
<ochosi> and i still suspect it's connected to that headerbar patch
<ochosi> the only way to find out for sure would be to try evince 3.14 from upstream
<ochosi> maybe there's a gnome3 ppa with evince with headerbar...
<elfy> I'll get unity installed for the moment as I'll need it eventually anway
<ochosi> elfy: the stuff in "discussion" on the meeting page has actually been discussed, right?
<ochosi> so if you don't mind, i'd take it off there to clear space for the next meeting
<ochosi> unless there is stuff to be kept around
<elfy> yep - fine to clear that
<ochosi> ok, ty
<ochosi> !team | halloweeny meeting on friday, 11 utc
<ubottu> halloweeny meeting on friday, 11 utc: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> might still be awake :)
<elfy> or might be unable to type ... 
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> ochosi: radiance theme in unity http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-271014-163954.php
<elfy> let me know how you want me to about reporting it 
<knome> ochosi, ^ added to calendar
<knome> ochosi, and that's 11am, right?
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> silly me - assumed sensible time at night 
<knome> hehe
<Unit193> He linked to the clock that said AM.
<knome> i'm not paying attention!
<knome> :P
<elfy> while this whole moving feast time is great - I wonder about the sense in having one person run 3 out of 9 
<elfy> and someone else 2 out of 9
<slickymasterWork> well, at least it won't crash with dinner time
<knome> slickymasterWork, lol, because everything else you can move around except EATING
<knome> ;)
<slickymasterWork> when my kid is with me is sort of difficult to move meals 
<slickymasterWork> one thing that always works great with younger kids is routines knome 
<knome> i was just teasing
<Unit193> And, http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m72yoqybvl1qgbyhko1_500.gif
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I know :)
<slickymasterWork> lol Unit193, quite right, she is
<knosys> hello
<Unit193> Looks like a short meeting, too bad I can't attend and make it shorter. :D
<elfy> lol
<knome> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2014/10/26#2014-10-26-moving-on-but-not-too-far
<elfy> yea read that 
<Unit193> Linked to yesterday ^.  Sum up, LP only, or tiny bugs.
<knome> i actually consider that a good thing
<Unit193> Stepping down before burning out fully?  Or getting rid of cjwatson? :P
<knome> not because he's now away from development, but because him working "full-time" on launchpad is (hopefully) going to be awesome
<knome> and stepping down before burnout too
<Unit193> Right, but really stinks for Ubuntu.
<knome> does it?
<knome> and do you mean ubuntu or ubuntu desktop :)
<knome> going to eat some, back after that
<ochosi> yes, am
<ochosi> not pm
 * Unit193 PMs ochosi.
<ochosi> bbiab
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/a0y78WkRnO7oeqkiuYF4/
<knome> sighj
<knome> -j
<Unit193> Yeeep, but at least it's the same one as last time I pasted, and not a new one!
<Unit193> knome: Did you fix it?
<Unit193> knome: We can blame slickymaster if you didn't, because he's docs lead! :D
<knome> i didn't, but maybe i should look at it
<knome> Unit193, is there a quick way for you to check who has done those translations?
<knome> Unit193, especially the ones that bring the translated tags?
<knome> would like to tell the contributor to stop doing that because obviously we can't run after them and fix stuff all the time
<Unit193> Think so on LP.
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~franciscomol
<knome> also has done </ application>
<knome> i don't know if it's ok to leave spaces like that
<knome> and another semi-annoying thing is that he's leaving spaces inside the tags
<knome> i mean...
<knome> <application> App name </application>
<knome> bluesabre, slickymaster: docs branch for vivid set up
<knome> Element placeholder-2 in namespace '' encountered in guimenuitem, but no template matches.
<knome> ^ for PT too
<knome> tut tut, slickymaster 
<knome> Unit193, should running 'make' in the docs root clean up lang directories under desktop-guide ?
<Unit193> make clean?
<knome> aha
<knome> :)
<knome> now, why does the makescript need to give me silly line numbers
<knome> like 315
<knome> i know that's the virtual line number for that spot in the whole documentation, but it's not too useful
<knome> Unit193, oh! have you noticed that if you s/--postvalid/--valid/ in scripts/validate.sh, you actually get the context too?
<knome> wonder if there's any reason to keep --postvalid as the default argument?
<Unit193> Never tried.
<knome> /home/knome/Downloads/es.po
<knome> eh
<knome> --postvalid Validate after parsing is completed. 
<Unit193> (Also not always sure what's different/uncommitted here. :P )
<knome> oh, yeah
<knome> it fails the IDREF attrs
<knome> >__<
<Unit193> Makefile, debian/control, desktop-guide/Makefile, scripts/translate.sh, scripts/validate.sh, and my own wrapper, I see.
<knome> you should do a MP for all the improvements you have stacked there.
<Unit193> "improvements", hah. :D
 * knome shakes head
 * Unit193 be hacking up the buildsystem.
<bluesabre> hey all
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/0nnq42t16hbMea43TRHb/ nothing groundbreaking, and the one is an attempted fix for the current problem, but doesn't fix it.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, hello.
<knome> Unit193, do a MP, i'll merge them today so you can keep hacking
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<Unit193> knome: Should have bluesabre magically fix it.
 * bluesabre is a bit busy through Friday
<Unit193> :(
<knome> Unit193, all of the validation fails in es.po was from the same user
<knome> and all of them was basically that tags were translated
<knome> hmm, now pt also magically validates
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/XYdFzBsMMIinNNlVFqjB/ new one.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-28
<knome> Unit193, where's the MP?
<Unit193> Doesn't exist? :D
<knome> boo.
<pleia2> http://searchenterprisedesktop.techtarget.com/feature/Boot-to-open-source-desktops-with-Linux-on-USB-sticks
<pleia2> using xubuntu as an example, how nice :)
<knome> :)
<Unit193> knome: There.
<Unit193> Unless I broke it. :D
<knome> great
<knome> merged
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/+activereviews
<Unit193> You didn't even test it. :(
<knome> hah.
<knome> ^ cleaned that list up
<knome> pleia2, note: re the press page: i thought we could keep trusty for now since it's the latest lts, and especially since there is no stuff for utopic yet
<knome> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnKv6PcmDU
<knome> he'd like to have the categories on the left side on whisker. is that currently possible?
<ali12341> no
<ali12341> if you want the categories on the left, just use a normal cascading menu...
<knome> one could argue one might want both the search (and other) features from whisker, but the categories on the left
<ali12341> moon on a stick...
<knome> i don't think it's an unreasonable request tbh
<knome> one thing that he mentions, which has been brought up before, is the default file type abiword saves as
<knome> could we potentially poke that value for new users, making it something that's more widespreadly readable?
<skellat> ODT?
<knome> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkIWArfBq_4
<knome> ^ he says USC is not working, but would, if we installed package X
<knome> skellat, or DOC
<Unit193> !info x
<ubottu> Package x does not exist in utopic
<Unit193> Too bad.
<knome> awwh.
<knome> ^ and whining about theme colors.
<ali12341> ubuntu-sso-client-qt
<knome> what about actually reading the release announcement before doing a video review
<knome> and people generally think to seem there needs to be something new for a release to be successful
<ali12341> rounded corners not working?
<ali12341> window decorations are bitmaps, that is impossible
<ali12341> yeah if you want everything to be different in every release, there's ubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu-gnome
<Unit193> Lubuntu and will be a MATE ubuntu too.
<ali12341> neither of those are different in every release though
<knome> so he's half way to the video, and he's mostly been talking about his own modified themes and how themes are broken and how there are still the same bugs
<knome> maybe we should write a blog article about why everything's not changing every time
<knome> but maybe they'd just not read it.
<knome> "so the only thing they did here is to make it worse"
<knome> hahah.
<knome> contributions that improve the quality are welcome.
<ali12341> i have to agree that there is no reason to upgrade
<knome> there rarely is a good reason to upgrade from LTS to the next regular version
<knome> unless you want the later versions of packages 
<knome> but sure, i do understand the point, and i'm not offended by it
<knome> it just doesn't seem very legit to whine about "no new things" either
<ali12341> i agree
<knome> "and they've introduced some new [bugs] as well"
<knome> wait, which bugs did we *introduce* ?
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-October/038516.html is something great to read, though.
<ali12341> i think we should drop USC
<knome> though it was resolved.
<knome> ali12341, that's been discussed several times, but if you want, you can start the discussion again
<knome> http://www.reviewstoday.in/2014/10/review-quick-look-at-xubuntu-1410.html
<knome> come on guys!
<Unit193> knome: Not this one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/owncloud
<knome> we serve the logo that works with your website on the website you took a screenshot and created a crappy JPG from
<knome> Unit193, fix committed 9 hours ago. now testing, will probably land soon enough
<ali12341> i couldn't reproduce any USC bug with missing sso
<knome> mhm.
<Unit193> Ah, still a pity.
<Unit193> Wonder what's taking up with the stuff in proposed and NEW.
<knome> don't know about that but i know i'm going to bed now
<knome> ttyl and have a nice day
<Unit193> Good nighty.
<skellat> ali12341: I look forward to reviewing your case for dropping U-S-C
<skellat> Unit193: jriddell did the empty packages earlier for owncloud.  The builders have been **very** busy...
<skellat> And rmadison fails on me...AGAIN!
<Unit193> Normally shows as pending.
<elfy> ochosi: -release team will be expiring soon - can you deal with that, afaik if I'm not in -release then I can't work on the trackers
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think my membership might be expiring for release and others as well
<brainwash> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey brainwash: haven't gotten to the thunar bug/fix yet
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> any news from the sru team?
<bluesabre> haven't heard anything.  What was the last status... still waiting for xfdesktop to land in proposed, and xfce4-weather-plugin to get out of proposed, right?
<brainwash> yes, exactly
<slickymasterWork> morning
<slickymasterWork> saw you ping knome 
<slickymasterWork> s/you/your
 * qwebirc653355 sighs
<qwebirc653355> knome, also saw that you already bumped version to Vivid
<slickymasterWork> there's something I don't get though, https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8/xubuntu-docs/print-server-settings/+merge/222962
<slickymasterWork> wasn't this already merged?!
<slickymasterWork> I thought I had merged it on 2014-06-12
<slickymasterWork> what gives?
<slickymasterWork> knome, Unit193: Element placeholder-2 in namespace '' encountered in guimenuitem, but no template matches.
<slickymasterWork> in PT ^^
<slickymasterWork> I almost 100% sure that I never translated tags
<slickymasterWork> s/I/I',
<slickymasterWork> * I'm
<knome> slickymasterWork, was merged, but not in the right way, so it was left open; i just did the paperwork to get it disappear
<slickymasterWork> ok,
<slickymasterWork> I remember that back then I had a few glitches with the merge
<knome> yep
<knome> i don't get that error anymore
<knome> the placeholder-2 one
<knome> it suddenly just disappeared
<slickymasterWork> i could almost swear that I never translated tags
<knome> it's not necessarily linked to that
<knome> but in the spanish translations, that was the case
<slickymasterWork> knome do you think I should mail https://launchpad.net/~franciscomol regarding his es translations issues?
<slickymasterWork> at least to be somewhat preventive 
<brainwash> bluesabre: someone needs to add a comment to the sru report and mention that he tested the trusty-proposed package
<bluesabre> brainwash: for xfce4-weather-plugin?
<brainwash> bluesabre: it's not clear which version of xfce4-weather-plugin elfy has tested
<brainwash> yes
<knome> slickymasterWork, yeah, that'd be good
<knome> slickymasterWork, cc or bcc me
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll do it
<bluesabre> brainwash: I think its clear by elfy's setting verification-done
<brainwash> -> pitti â brainwash: I asked elfy in #u-quality whether his comment 21 was testing the proposed package
<bluesabre> added comment
<bluesabre> I would like to note that while #ubuntu-quality makes sense, it is not mentioned that any sru discussion happens there on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<bluesabre> added that to my permanently joined channels
<brainwash> sounds like a good idea
<ochosi> morning all
<slickymasterWork> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> bluesabre, elfy: looking at the expiry dates now...
<ochosi> ok, bumped all of us until 15.04
<ochosi> any other teams with expiry problems?
<ochosi> fwiw, if many people of -team can't make it to the meeting on friday, we can re-schedule for sometime next week
<ochosi> i originally thought a sorta holiday was a good idea, but in case it actually isn't, there's no problem with postponing until after the weekend
<ochosi> so feel free to let me know
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> works for me just as well as any other day
<ochosi> bluesabre: i know you said you were busy, but i guess with adding some preliminary gtk3.14 support to greybird, it's time to disable its daily builds for trusty as it'll just break the theme for gtk3.10/12
<ochosi> (note: the support for checks and radios has already been added, so ppl using the PPA with trusty will notice the breakage. so you could also argue that it's too late already)
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you can give me the last good commit for, I'll package it up, stop daily uploads, and push the final supported package.
<bluesabre> Trusty
<ochosi> that's the last commit 2b5b144fa145f31a6c4500b03fb9a5bcd5d89952
<bluesabre> When I get home, ofc
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/2b5b144fa145f31a6c4500b03fb9a5bcd5d89952
<ochosi> sure, no rush
<bluesabre> Thanks.
<slickymasterWork> knome, ping
<knome> slickymasterWork, pong
<ochosi> it's actually the pen-ultimate commit
<knome> ochosi, not the brush-ultimate?
<slickymasterWork> please comment -> http://pastebin.com/6ZpC1Gdh
<ochosi> knome: whoa, that was a *bad* one...
<knome> but of course!
<knome> ochosi, i didn't you liked frisbeeing
<knome> (^ another bad one) 
<ochosi> indeed :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: fountain or ballpoint?
<ochosi> awwwhh, you're really starting to hurt my feelings...
<knome> slickymasterWork, i'd just say "Hey Paco, ..." and i would include your name (at least first name) at the end instead/in addition to your nick
<ochosi> :]
<slickymasterWork> other than that knome? anything?
<knome> hmm
<knome> actually
<knome> tell him to avoid adding spaces where they do not belong
<knome> example:
<slickymasterWork> isn't that included in the data placeholders paragraph?
<knome> original string: <tag><tag2><placeholder-1/>content</tag2></tag>
<slickymasterWork> ^^
<slickymasterWork> isn't that included in the data placeholders paragraph?
<knome> translated string: <tag> <tag2> <placeholder-1 /> content </tag2> </tag>
<knome> is it?
<knome> let me read again
<slickymasterWork> knome, Copy these variables and placeholders exactly as you see them....
<elfy> brainwash: and it seems perfectly clear to me
<knome> right, but it's also something he does outsides the tags
<brainwash> elfy: I did not complain ;)
<slickymasterWork> ok, 
<elfy> bluesabre: possibly because pitti knows where I'm likely to be found all the time
<knome> there's practically nothing wrong with that, and it should look the same, but it makes it hard to debug potential problems with the translation  
<slickymasterWork> another thing knome, how do I go about nagging the website responsible :) 
<knome> which website? :P
<slickymasterWork> there's an outstanding bug in it
<elfy> ochosi: re meetings - any meeting during my working day - I'm going to be working :) 
<slickymasterWork> xubuntu.org :P
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you test this patch and see if you notice anything negative?    https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11107
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11107 in Xfsettingsd "xfsettingsd resets TV mode to NULL on power cycle" [Normal,New]
<knome> slickymasterWork, just tell me what the bug is, and i'll either 1) fix it, or if it's not a trivial thing 2) ask you to file a bug (against xubuntu-website)
<slickymasterWork> I was just putting you on knome ;)
<knome> slickymasterWork, if i'm not around when you'd like to ask it, a bug is always okay
<bluesabre> Worked for me. Just looking for extra verification
<knome> aha :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, will try to test that tonight. i don't have a TV, but i can try my hdmi screen (never had any problems at all with it)
<slickymasterWork> now seriously in the Internet Relay Chat section of http://xubuntu.org/help/ there's still a mention to XChat
<knome> so this is the "tease the fellow team member" day :P
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> this is the paragraph in question "To join the community support channel, you can use the link above. To join any of the channels, you can use the XChat IRC client, which is installed by default in Xubuntu. You can find XChat under the Internet category in the applications menu."
<knome> ta, will go edit
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks. If nothing gets worse, I'll apply it to trunk
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i guess these things will always be a bit of trial and error...
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'm going to edit the mail an send it, CC'ing you knome 
<slickymasterWork> s/an/and
<knome> slickymasterWork, done
<knome> and ta
 * slickymasterWork bows 
<knome> and arrows?
<slickymasterWork> :P
<slickymasterWork> there's no room anymore for courtesy
<knome> no
<slickymasterWork> you sarcastic people ;)
<knome> this room is too small to bow
<slickymasterWork> ah ah ah ah
<knome> you'll just hit your head to tables and such
<slickymasterWork> watch out knome, XPL is around and will kick us to -off
<knome> that's ok, he doesn't have the opping rights
<slickymasterWork> lol
<davmor2> slickymasterWork: if there is no room to bow then there isn't a hope in hell of courtesy that what women do when they meet the Queen right ;)
<elfy> the room's big enough - I just think we're all Giants
<elfy> apart from pleia2 of course - who's a giant in her own way :)
<slickymasterWork> lol davmor2 
<elfy> hi davmor2 
<knome> elfy, you mean the san francisco giants? :P
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<davmor2> elfy: how do
<slickymasterWork> knome, sent
<knome> good
<pleia2> I think elfy is calling us fat
<knome> ahaha
<elfy> pleia2: not at all - I was calling you short :p
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> :)
<elfy> was just - you're short - we're not - but *we* are Giants - we are the best team :p
<davmor2> pleia2: I wouldn't stand for that, I'd sit instead ;)
<elfy> davmor2: or we could all sit and pleia2 could stand :)
<slickymasterWork> lol
<elfy> as all can tell probably - I'm back :)
<slickymasterWork> \o/
<pleia2> :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: "accepted xfdesktop4 [source] (trusty-proposed) [4.11.8-0ubuntu0.1]"
<brainwash> also, xfce4-weather-plugin is available in -updates now
<slickymasterWork> he he, and another busted Verocious Velociraptor box :P
<slickymasterWork> no ending for this fun moments
<brainwash> so, we need some testers for xfdesktop4 in trusty (-proposed)
<brainwash> bug 1365965
<ubottu> bug 1365965 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[MRE] Please update xfdesktop4 to 4.11.8 in Trusty" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365965
<elfy> brainwash: mail the devel list :)
<brainwash> don't you already have a template for test calls? :P
<elfy> no
<elfy> just write it to the list - it's really not hard at all
<slickymasterWork> I'll probaly be able to test those tonight, depending on kid being able to go to bed not too late 
<elfy> knome: how do I add vivid core/desktop builds to tracker 
<elfy> I looked in the docs - but the page is blank
<knome> are there actually builds ready?
<elfy> yea
<knome> okay
<elfy> I assume http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/builds
<knome> i'll go through that with you a bit later if that's oki
<elfy> ok - might be mia though and tomorrow will do if that's ok 
<knome> sounds good
<elfy> there's not any real rush imo 
<knome> yep
<knome> elfy, still about?
<elfy> I is
<knome> want to go through adding the builds?
<elfy> yep - please:)
<knome> ok, let's open the tracker admin
<knome> an
<knome> hmm :P
<knome> tell me when you're ready
<elfy> yep
<knome> ok, so go to the "Builds" tab
<elfy> I'll shout if I've got an issue
<knome> and scroll down until you see the xubuntu builds
<knome> there you can see we only have two active builds; desktop builds for trusty daily
<knome> now we obviously want to create a new build
<knome> the form is conveniently just after our builds
<knome> so, the version number is practically YYYYMMDD
<elfy> aaah 
<knome> so, 20141028 for today
<knome> milestone is vivid daily
<knome> or whateever you want to add the build to
<knome> and finally,
<knome> check the products you want to add builds for
<knome> in the "xubuntu" section
<knome> then hit "add these builds to the tracker"
<knome> and they should be up and available :)
<elfy> cool - the version number was were I fell down
<knome> yep
<elfy> awesome - thanks :)
<knome> i don't know why others have 20141024 as the vivid version number
<elfy> upgrades? 
<knome> right
<knome> true, my bad :)
<elfy> I think I did that 
<knome> i don't know what happens after this:
<elfy> didn't want a version number
<knome> i guess the builds are just being updated automatically or so
<elfy> well I can check in a day
<knome> yep
<elfy> questions is - do we do core again 
<knome> i'd say yeah, we probably have things to iron out
<knome> but do we want to do it already, don't know
<elfy> I think that balloons did something *else* with that so it didn't update daily
<knome> i guess it doesn't hurt even if somebody ran a core test :)
<Unit193> Just don't let them do upgrades. :P
<knome> :P
<elfy> I'd rather we did the same thing again - so we get only one core and people just continually add onto that test result page
<knome> yeah
<knome> then just add "vivid" as the version number
<knome> or sth :)
<elfy> ochosi: adding a couple of easy things to the agenda - but I'll not be there - will need to be sorted though
<Unit193> Best time to check, when something big drops, make sure the deps don't get clobbered.
<elfy> knome: mmm - but milestone will be vivid daily
<elfy> looking at utopic
<elfy> yea - think that's right - it stayed on dailiy
<knome> yep
<elfy> ok - added it 
<knome> if we want, we can add builds for the other milestones as well
<elfy> yep
<knome> nice :)
<elfy> Unit193: will you be about at the meeting? 
<Unit193> elfy: No.
<elfy> okey doke
<elfy> Unit193: ok - well we (QA) will come up with a plan to deal with core then - you can start that off :p
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> :P
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/vivid-QA-plan
 * knome tickles Unit193 from the armpits
<Unit193> Really want that hair?
<knome> ...with a stick
<Unit193> Ah good, not too cluttered yet.
<elfy> yep - almost a virgin pad :)
<Unit193> Dev and last QA one got biiiig.
<knome> elfy, not BT?
<knome> orange?
<elfy> make notes on that pad - then once we're sorted I'll get it on blueprint and trello as appropriate
<elfy> knome: wut?
<knome> nvm, just very dry puns about virgin/BT/orange/...
<elfy> Unit193: yea - there are some big pads atm :p
<elfy> oic :)
<elfy> Unit193> Best time to check, when something big drops, make sure the deps don't get clobbered. good point - just need someone to watch that, as lead I'll ask someone in particular to watch it :D
<knome> ^ like Unit193 ?
<elfy> entirely possible as dkessel is going to be tied up with autopilot I hope :D
<elfy> knome: thanks by the way :)
<knome> np :)
<Unit193> Anyone tried xfce4-panel's intelligent hiding?
<elfy> I read about it 
<knome> haha
<knome> almost tested then :)=
<Unit193> I updated the package, because I wanted the option, but I don't use hiding. :P
<elfy> heh
<knome> Unit193, elfy: can you cooperate some testing via the ML?
<Unit193> -core?
<knome> intelligent panel hiding
<elfy> knome: only if we're actually going to get it in 15.04
<knome> i don't know if we will... ochosi?
<knome> anyway, i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to test it even if it's not included, just see if it works and such
<knome> so not too much work/effort in testing it, but some brief
<elfy> knome: well it's not installable without mucking about afaik 
<elfy> and we have enough trouble getting people to test what we really need doing ;)
<dkessel> elfy: I hope I will be busy with autopilot, yes :)
<elfy> woohoo
<elfy> we do need to ensure that if we get anywhere it will be used 
<elfy> I'll catch up with balloons on that next week if possible, don't want effort going into it - if at the end - they won't add it 
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce I dropped it in there for myself (and because I got shouted at last time, pinged someone too!)
<elfy> perhaps that's where I read it :D
<Unit193> Yes, I pinged elfy, in case he wanted to copy it over for elfy. :D
<elfy> I've had a headache - you're making it worse :p
<slickymaster> it's not my fault now elfy 
<elfy> nope :)
<knome> elfy elfy elfy elfy elfy elfy elfy elfy elfy 
<dkessel> elfy everywhere
<elfy> I've had one since I made the fatal mistake of looking at that upgrading stuff in docs lol
<Unit193> (And if someone pokes me and wants to try it, I can pop a vivid one up too.)
<knome> elfy, hahah
<knome> reminds me i should look at that soonish
<elfy> Unit193: well ... if *we* decide to look at for this cycle - thenit needs to be in staging 
<knome> or via extras, which is the pre-staging phase
<Unit193> Right, and not sure if you/we/he/it/donky plans to look at it this cycle.
<elfy> knome: mostly it's the top bit, the plaintext, but it would be nice to know how wrong the marked up is 
<Unit193> Extras isn't right.
<knome> elfy, yep, i'll try to look at it probably even tonight
<knome> chances are i won't be going to sleep soon
<slickymaster> elfy, what mark up is wrong?
<elfy> I will be 
<Unit193> I won't be.
<elfy> slickymaster: no idea - never done it before :)
<knome> elfy, then you'll get to that in the morning
<knome> slickymaster, the markup he wrote for the upgrading section
 * slickymaster haven't saw it yet
<knome> don't hammer it either
<slickymaster> do you have it somewhere elfy?
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/upgrading
<knome> but there it is ^
 * slickymaster checks it
<slickymaster> wow that's a big section
<knome> elfy, one thing i see is the id's... you can't have spaces :)
<elfy> it's not all changed 
<knome> fixing that
<elfy> knome: well as long as the changes are on pad I'll be able to see the diff colours :)
<knome> yep
 * knome goes pink
<knome> other than that, it seems to look okay
<slickymaster> and there's some icon entities missing
<knome> i'll run it through the validator too to ultimately check that
<elfy> really - didn't do too bad then
<knome> slickymaster, want to add them?
<knome> elfy, yep, very good
<slickymaster> yes, I'll do it
<slickymaster> kudos elfy
<knome> elfy, re: content: instead of linking directly to the trackers, i'd probably link somewhere in the website
<slickymaster> I'll ping you when it's finished knome
<knome> that is, "QA" under "get involved" or sth
<knome> slickymaster, yep
<elfy> Please consider getting involved with reporting usage of development versions and associated packages.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> that's better
<elfy> and then link to contribute/qa
<knome> yep
<knome> btw, question:
<elfy> is what I did right?
<knome> (yes)
<knome> do you think it's weird that we basically have:
<knome> 1) upgrading from LTS->LTS
<knome> 2) upgrading from a regular release  (note: no "to" here, because the target can be either a regular or an LTS release)
<knome> 2) upgrading to the development version
<knome> 3^
<knome> (and note release VS. version)
<elfy> hang on a minute
<elfy> you've changed the 'title' of the first one and it doesn't match the content :)
<knome> hmm
<elfy> title is Upgrading from one LTS version to another
<elfy> BUT change Update to for any new version
<knome> slickymaster, just checking, are you modifying the docbook markup?
<elfy> title *was*    For LTS versions (unless the next release is LTS):
 * knome reads agian
<knome> *Again
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> there are a few tags missing knome 
<knome> elfy, any reason to keep the non-docbook section?
<elfy> none - now I know the marked up bit is ok
<knome> slickymaster, i see you've been editing the non-markup version
<knome> the docbook one is below
<slickymaster> I'm starting at the top
<knome> lol
<knome> ok
<knome> start at the docbook top
 * elfy makes it easier 
<slickymaster> btw what the hell is sudo edit?!
<elfy> yea - new one on me too :)
<knome> elfy, that's a horrible color ;)
<elfy> slickymaster: it edits as sudo with default editor 
<knome> ouch!
<knome> my eyes are bleeding
<slickymaster> does it have a space between the sudo and editÂ»
<knome> elfy, that's good :)
<elfy> slickymaster: no space
<slickymaster> ok
<Unit193> Now, s/sudo -i mousepad/pkexec mousepad/
<knome> ^ that
<slickymaster> lol knome 
<slickymaster> really??
<elfy> slickymaster: well we do have the policy by default 
 * slickymaster now has sign in the pad
<elfy> in new releases
<slickymaster> a sign
<slickymaster> knome: but do you want me to drop the tags I added above your SIGN?
<elfy> what's <literal> ?
 * slickymaster is way dumb
<slickymaster> just now I've noticed what you are talking about knome 
<slickymaster> dumber than the dumbiest guy there is
<slickymaster> :P
 * slickymaster kicks himself insanely
<knome> elfy, it denotes something that literally read like that on the screen
<knome> slickymaster, i don't mind if you keep them there :P
<knome> slickymaster, i was going to remove that text
<knome> but keep it to copy/paste
<knome> elfy, reading this now
<knome> isn't the second subsection just duplicating now?
<slickymaster> yes, I'll be able to start to think straight in a few seconds
<elfy> knome: it probably is now - you changed the meaning of the first one ... 
<knome> of course i did! :D
<knome> the only thing left to explain now is how to make you only upgrade to LTS releaes
<knome> if you've jumped through regular releases before
<elfy> of course
<elfy> but before you started changing it all around it made sense
<knome> it did make sense
<knome> but i think it was a bit weird
<knome> and somewhat repeating
<knome> i think this is much better; just explain upgrade targetting
<knome> and we should probably mention the GUI way too
<elfy> of course it does - because the first bit is the same - when the first bit was different - it didn't repeat
<elfy> I'm just getting confused now - I'll look tomorrow
<knome> ok, i'll try to get this in shape and pushed to the branch
<elfy> yea ok - I can delete all the local stuff 
<knome> yep
<elfy> cya tomorrow
<knome> thanks :)
<slickymaster> knome see my question in the tab
<knome> resolved
<knome> slickymaster, not execute because the other option is the GUI way
<knome> which isn't in the pad yet
<slickymaster> ok, agree, but do either of doesn't sound right _P
<knome> let's fix it then
<slickymaster> give me just a econd to put my son in bed
<knome> sure, no hurry
<slickymaster> knome: why not choose one of the following 
<knome> i guess i prefer "do" because ultimately, after you choose one of them, you got to do it as well
<knome> so choosing is implied whatsoever
<slickymaster> I', just guided by the sound of the sentence in this case knome 
<slickymaster> *I'm
<knome> either one works for me
<knome> let me push that to the actual code now
<knome> i'll do a test branch so we can see how it looks
<slickymaster> ping so i can branch it and build it locally
<knome> 5mins
<knome> slickymaster, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/vivid-upgrading
<slickymaster> on it
<knome> hmm
<knome> now the first subsection is duplicating
<knome> we should drop the first two points from the list
<knome> agree?
<knome> and maybe put the second subsection as the first section
<knome> then we could also possibly drop the note from the currently first subsection
<slickymaster> let me build them knome :P
<knome> sure sure...
<knome> ;)
<knome> i'm still a man of action..
<slickymaster> yeah, my machine is slower than yours
<knome> and i had the code available earlier than you etc
<knome> note that i of course testbuilt it before i committed
<slickymaster> but starting I think that the second paragraph of the upgrading section can be a little confusing for non native english speakers
<knome> yeah, i was considering moving that to the upgrade path subsection
<knome> to have a bit more context
<knome> and then merging the currently first and third paragraphs
<slickymaster> let me see
<slickymaster> yes, I agree on that merge
<slickymaster> it's logical
<knome> ok, let me do a few simple changes
<knome> then push again
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> Unit193, want to debug why the translation attributions aren't working today?
<knome> slickymaster, pushed
<Unit193> knome: Sure, why aren't they working?
<knome> >___<
<slickymaster> one thing knome, he also should reduce the coverage of the hyperlink in the <note><para>If you are not getting an upgrade notification, or aren't seeing the release you are expecting to upgrade to, see <xref linkend="changing-upgrade-path"></xref>.</para></note> </section>
<knome> oh yeah.
<knome> duh.
<slickymaster> ok, I'll wait before I pull it again
<Unit193> knome: Not what you meant? :(
<knome> Unit193, no :D
<knome> it works locally.
<Unit193> Utopic?
<slickymaster> yes, locally their being built
<knome> nooo
<slickymaster> VV
<slickymaster> V V
<Unit193> Well that's another bit of info then.
<knome> pushed 270
<knome> slickymaster, ^
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> second please
<knome> Unit193, do you think it would be sensible to put the .xml files for the desktop.guide under build or something else that can be bzr-ignored, so you didn't have to do make clean before each push?
<slickymaster> knome: the hyperlink still covers the section called part of the text
<knome> there is no way to edit the link content
<knome> that's the way it is
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> the only other sensible option is to drop that note completely
<Unit193> knome: If you do that, you have to also edit the buildsystem. :P
<knome> but i'm not sure if it's better to keep it or not
<knome> Unit193, well exactly, which is why i asked..
<slickymaster> also missing a period in the end of the first item of the Upgrading to the next available release list
<Unit193> I don't see anything wrong with make clean...
<slickymaster> knome: ^~
<knome> Unit193, except that then you have to build again after pushing
<knome> slickymaster, actually, the second point should just get rid of that dot :)
<slickymaster> that's what I was going to say since the third item also doesn't has it
<slickymaster> knome: Changing your upgrade path
<slickymaster> "a user of 14.04 could upgrade to 14.10 or 16.04."
<knome> let's edit that paragraph in the pad where i just pasted it (at the top9
<slickymaster> I'm not sure about the use of could
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> opt?
<slickymaster> as in choose
<knome> but is that right
<knome> i mean,
<knome> the only sensible point to change the upgrade path is when you are running an LTS release
<knome> i guess it makes sense
<bluesabre> brainwash: good work
<slickymaster> but you can always choose knome
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> knome: I suppose feel free to...
<knome> :P
<knome> do we need the examples really?
<knome> maybe
<knome> let's see how that would look like
<knome> i'm thinking an image would be so much better
<knome> but i'm thinking that would be so overkill
<knome> it would be like the first image ever in our docs ;)
<knome> the reason why i don't think the examples help much is that the users reading this documentation will proabably have no idea about the release cadence we're having anyway
<slickymaster> I'm happy with how it is now knome 
<knome> "even.04" doesn't ring their "LTS!!!" bells
<slickymaster> ok, in the pad
<knome> see the alternative paragraph
<slickymaster> hmmm
<knome> i think it's much more clear for the regular user
<knome> no version number crap
<knome> or too technical explanations
<slickymaster> yeah, agree
<knome> how would that look?
<slickymaster> much cleaner 
<slickymaster> way better
<knome> yeah, let's do this
<slickymaster> we were just complicating excessively
<knome> yeah
<knome> testbuild..
<slickymaster> have you pushed it knome 
<knome> soon
<knome> hmm
<knome> you know
<knome> we're going main branch now
<knome> oops ;)
 * knome shrugs
<knome> it's pretty much ready anyway
<knome> so get the main branch
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> it's seems alright in my pov knome 
<slickymaster> knome, tell me something please
<Unit193> Cat starts with the letter "C".
<slickymaster> whatie Unit193 ?!
<knome> slickymaster, yes?
<knome> slickymaster, he told you "something"
<slickymaster> can I safelly delete this/my branch -> https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs
<slickymaster> since it's all done with
<knome> sure
<slickymaster> Ãµr abandoned it
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> sergio-br2, connection problems?
<knome> apparently...
<slickymaster> like slickymasterWork
<slickymaster> heheh
<knome> got to banforward him next if he keeps going in and out
<slickymaster> don't do that to the Work guy
<knome> (a friendly banforward, to be lifted once the connection problems are solved)
<knome> heh, not
<knome> at least you are saying stuff
<knome> but just littering the channel with join/quits is meh
<slickymaster> :P
<slickymaster> hey knome, maybe we should leave a ping to forestpiskie about his upgrade section already being in the main branch
<slickymaster> it's done now
<knome> well done ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-29
<bluesabre> Unit193: docs still broken?
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8725926/
<bluesabre> did a lazy test build of a lazy recipe
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, warning, I moved the tests so now they'll fail the build if they don't pass. :P
<Unit193> And yeah, but different breakage.  Translators thing doesn't work for another reason.
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> recipe good then, putting it on -staging for vivid
<Unit193> Compare https://unit193.net/xubuntu/fi/ln-idp49113396.html and https://unit193.net/xubuntu/es/ln-idp39481532.html to what you build in chroot, you'll no longer get the translators.
<Unit193> Heh, glad you like it. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: If you're doing a daily, you can disable the tests so you don't get spammed.  Also, I have a daily setup, but it doesn't build a package, just uploads the docs.
<bluesabre> are the tests likely to fail for a while, or be a once-in-a-while thing?
<Unit193> Well, es tends to fail.
<elfy> ummm
<elfy> so looking at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/vivid-upgrading/view/head:/desktop-guide/C/migrating-upgrading.xml
<elfy> seems that it was rather pointless me doing anything in the first place ;)
<Unit193> Heey, you must have done good!
<ochosi> knome, Unit193: intelligent hiding was unfortunately written for 4.10 and then merged into 4.11, which seemingly (without any obvious reasons though) has broken the whole hiding logic a bit, so that needs to be fixed first before we can ship it
<elfy> yep so good that's something else I can ignore in future :)
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<Unit193> ochosi: Ah, so I shouldn't select that option, then.  Thanks.
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah well i'm not sure anymore what exactly it breaks
<ochosi> i think it breaks autohiding too
<ochosi> if i ever get time, i'll look at it
<Unit193> Chance it'll be fixored soonish?
<ochosi> hm, no
<ochosi> the author of the original patch (JPohlmann) won't look at it anymore and andrzejr said he doesn't get why it's not workig
<ochosi> working
<ochosi> so the worst-case scenario is that the patch will be reverted
<Unit193> Won't look anymore?
<ochosi> yeah, he's not contributing to xfce anymore
<Unit193> Oh.
<Unit193> That's sad.
<ochosi> and true :>
<elfy> I guess that's a QA doesn't need to worry then
<ochosi> elfy: your evince screenshot, is that supposed to tell me that the bug isn't present in unity..?
<elfy> ummm
<elfy> that was days ago ... 
<ochosi> it also seems that they have more compressed toolbars, maybe their patch is somehow related to that
<ochosi> yeah, but we haven't talked since then
<ochosi> "days ago" -> the day before yesterday
<elfy> yea - I'm older than you :p
<elfy> yep - no bug in unity it seems
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> well, actually a bit annoying too
<ochosi> but yeah, i guess i'll have to ping around in u-desktop again until i find whoever is responsible for the headerbar patches
<elfy> ochosi: I've tried opening up a bunch of different pdf's in different orders and I don't seem to see any pattern
<ochosi> right
<elfy> though anything that's an exported from odt to pdf doesn't seem to get the issue that I can see
<elfy> ochosi: blueprints all approved :)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> that was a really productive session on sunday
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> at least we have a tiny head-start on V
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> "UOS"
<elfy> "UDS"
<Noskcaj> Does anyone here use bluetooth in *buntu?
<elfy> not many do - which is why we don't test it any longer
<Noskcaj> I'm looking for someone to help with the bluez5 transition
<ObrienDave> help, in what way?
<elfy> bluesabre must - he's the only one who reported against it last cycle
<Noskcaj> ObrienDave, Making sure everything we ship works with it, and maybe helping me package stuff
<Noskcaj> hopefully patches aren't needed
 * ObrienDave knows nothing about packaging
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i'm using bt
<Noskcaj> ochosi, In a few week is it ok if i ping you for testing?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> is the stack anywhere in a PPA already?
<ochosi> all i saw was blueman 1.99 in bluesabre's PPA
<Noskcaj> ochosi, no PPA yet, i'll make one once i'm done with upower
<ObrienDave> Noskcaj, i have BT adapter, android phone, can that be of use?
<Noskcaj> probably, i'll call for testing when the PPA is done. ty
<ochosi> ok, just lemme know then, thanks Noskcaj!
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: ping me when we get there
<knome> elfy, no, not really pointless. it was a useful starting point and there are still parts of it intact :)
<knome> elfy, also, note that since the bug is linked to the blueprint, we don't need a work item for the same item
<jjfrv8> slickymasterwork, knome, the discussion about the docs upgrading section change made me realize something...
<jjfrv8> I think we might want to change the  wm-settings-manager entity.
<jjfrv8> The current version with "icon-> Settings Manager" was kind of a workaround for the situation in Trusty
<jjfrv8> Whisker got that nice update in U where Settings got added to the category sidebar and  there is nothing is called "Settings Manager" anymore.
<knome> jjfrv8, right, fair point :)
<slickymasterWork> yes, absolutely correct
<knome> fortunately we did it with entities, so we only have to change it in one place \o/
<slickymasterWork> do you want to get on with that jjfrv8?
<slickymasterWork> or do you lack the time to do it?
<jjfrv8> sure, I can work on it.
<knome> it's an almost trivial thing to do... the only thing left to ask is whether we want to explain that
<knome> "go to [icon] -> [icon]" might not be the best way to put it
<knome> i think we decided to keep the settings manager text because of that thing ^
<slickymasterWork> hey knome, morning ;)
<knome> because if you know the name of the application you want to open, you can at least search for it in the whiskermenu
<knome> good day slickymasterWork!
<jjfrv8> Yeah, I thought we might want to put some kind of explanation in there about how you can search for one of the settings dialogs or you could use that icon to see the whole shebang at once.
<slickymasterWork> yes, but I'm not sure if there's really a need to explain it knome 
<slickymasterWork> isn't that already implied?
<knome> what about "[icon] -> [icon] (opens the Settings Manager)"
<jjfrv8> except it's called "Settings"
<knome> jjfrv8, in the GUI, right
<jjfrv8> ja
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> the label in whisker is settings
<jjfrv8> the dialog also says "Settings"
<knome> slickymasterWork, kind of, but really, the icons are supposed to be a nice additional touch and guide to find it
<knome> so what about:
<jjfrv8> the icon tooltip says "All Settings"
<knome> [icon] -> [icon] (<guilabel>Settings</guilabel>, opens the Settings Manager)
<knome> maybe i'm stubborn, but we've always called it the settings manager, even if the labels said something else
<knome> at least we should check if/what we call it elsewhere in the docs
<slickymasterWork> hey jjfrv8, haven't noticed that yet, but you're right, the dialog oes just says Settings now
<knome> ultimately, consistency is the key
<slickymasterWork> right
<knome> we can't call it three different names and get away with that :)
<slickymasterWork> I agree with your proposal knome -> [icon] -> [icon] (<guilabel>Settings</guilabel>, opens the Settings Manager)
<knome> yeah, that sounds like the least ambiguous and helpful
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8: what do you think? ^^
<knome> Unit193, were entities translatable again? :)
<jjfrv8> sounds good to me. I can work on the proposal
<knome> i guess they are.
<slickymasterWork> great, do it jjfrv8, and knome or me will merge it
<knome> yep ^
<knome> or himself.. :)
<knome> we're the three that have the access to the main branch
<knome> and technically pleia2, but socially she doesn't have the privileges
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, I noticed that you haven't add the LP bug number in the changelog, yesterday
<knome> my mistake.
<slickymasterWork> ok, even better
<knome> should probably change that so it is there
<knome> whoever merges the settings thing can add it
<knome> (just add "(LP: #123456)" at the end of the row
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123456 in xine-lib (Ubuntu) "podcast crashes amarok" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123456
<slickymasterWork> ok, easy piezie
<elfy> knome: what I mean by pointless is - there was no rush for it, I was trying to use it as a learning exercise, you and slickymasterWork took over, pushed it, etc so yea pointless from that perspective
<elfy> knome: could you look at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/series I get an error if I try and add vivid - we only have utopic available in builds, not sure if there is a bug or my perms are mucked up 
<elfy> tia
<jjfrv8> slickymasterWork, knome, how does this look? http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/settingsmanagerchanges.php
<jjfrv8> the first item would just be that single instance, the second one shows what all other settings entities would look like
<knome> elfy, nah. the markup was good
<knome> elfy, that was a great learning experience, and i think you did well
<knome> elfy, i'll look at the tracker... at some point :|
<knome> jjfrv8, i'm not (yet) convinced
<knome> slickymasterWork, ^ what do you think?
<slickymasterWork> will look at it in a second knome 
<knome> elfy, i see the vivid dailies in the list...
<slickymasterWork> just got in from lunch and still have to smoke a cigarette before starting :p 
<knome> elfy, do you have another problem?
<knome> slickymasterWork, hahah :)
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy, sorry about that, but ours was a good intention
<knome> elfy, and the *29 builds show up in the admin as well
<jjfrv8> knome, actually, I'm not convinced either. I think having two entry points to Settings (manager) from whisker is potentially confusing
<jjfrv8> and then, of course, there's the issue that the icon could change depending on which theme a user has
<knome> yep.
<jjfrv8> that's why I think it might be good to have a short section on whisker somewhere
<knome> maybe
<knome> though we can't link to that in every instance where we mention the menu
<knome> but yeah, if it was at the beginning of the docs
<knome> maybe a "how to read this documentation" section
<knome> i would even say a new section between "What is Xubuntu?" and "Migrating and Upgrading"
<jjfrv8> I like that ^. I've got to run but I'll ponder it and if you and slickster have any more suggestions, let me know.
<knome> and could be linked to in the "welcome" section in the main page too
<knome> ideas: do a short glossary of the different tags we use
<knome> and then mention the possibility that the icons are not the same if the user changed the icon theme
<knome> that's a good one
<slickymasterWork> that's what I was going to suggest
<knome> and maybe note about the navigation arrows at the bottom of the page
<slickymasterWork> perahps adding a note that whenever user change the them to a different one other than the default, the icons will chamnge
<slickymasterWork> `perhaps 
<knome> not sure if that's the right way to approach it
<knome> just mention that "if you have changed your icon theme, the icons might not match"
<slickymasterWork> either that or adding that new section you mentioned
<slickymasterWork> also
<knome> we don't want to patronize too much
<slickymasterWork> that's a a double-edged sword
<knome> always
<knome> anyway, how i see it that this section would not be the place where we teach them how to use xubuntu
<knome> but how to use the documentation
<knome> if we want to mention what you said, maybe it should be mentioned in the section where we tell them how to change icon themes
<slickymasterWork> hmmm
<knome> but i'm not sure if it's necessary
<knome> either way works for me though
<slickymasterWork> I would go for the mention about the implications of changing the theme
<slickymasterWork> linked in the welcome section
<jjfrv8> bbl
<ali12341> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738321 <- we should watch out for this one
<ubottu> Gnome bug 738321 in .General "GtkMenu has unnecessary scroll buttons" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<elfy> knome: - sorry - was talking about packages 
<knome> elfy, oh...? i'm not following then, but it's okay... especially if everything's okay :P
<elfy> knome: no - it's not okay - Can't build packages for vivid - there is no vivid milestone, if you add milestones in series - then I get an error when trying to do that :)
<elfy> but I'm not sure if it's because perms are screwed or ...
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll try to look at that later, busy now
<elfy> yep ok - not a rush at all 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Could you please have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-xkb-plugin/lp-733563
<pleia2> were docs reorganized at all for this release?
<pleia2> no, I just forget how to do docs
<pleia2> nevermind :)
<pleia2> knome: is pretty? http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/
<pleia2> I'll update startpage too
<knome> pleia2, the startpage branch should be updated
<knome> yeah, looks like it should
<pleia2> coo'
<dkessel> Hmm online docs do not include the translations?
<pleia2> knome: hm, last modified 10/07?
<pleia2> dkessel: currently we don't build .html pages for non-english in our Makefile
<pleia2> so no
<pleia2> knome: want me to do MP, or you?
<pleia2> knome: also, should look into getting you access to this system, since it's a historical fluke that I have ssh access it may take some time, might as well get started now
<pleia2> because bus factor and things
<dkessel> pleia2: I think I built non-english HTML docs from the makefile just the other day... It even included them in the start page. Is this a different branch than the installed docs?
<pleia2> dkessel: ah, it may be possible but the simple "make" in the desktop-guide/ directory only produces english
<dkessel> OK I think I used the root directory
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> I see, yeah, that does build in es, fi and pl
<pleia2> er, pt
<pleia2> suppose we could upload these too, could modify the startpage to point to them
<knome> pleia2, hehe :)
<knome> hmm, right
<knome> if you feel like updating it, you can
<knome> otherwise i can do that straight to the docs branch
<pleia2> I feel like putting socks on because my cousin is coming to pick me up any minute now
<knome> lol
<knome> ok, i'll update the branch for you
<pleia2> I can do it later, there's no rush
<knome> nah
<knome> it's trivial
<knome> pleia2, done and pushed
<pleia2> neat-o
<pleia2> where did that tab go
<knome> hiding
<pleia2> now my internet is acting like I'm at a hotel (oh)
<knome> :D :D
<slickymaster> good to see pleia2 working on docs :)
<knome> at least it's not acting like you're a hotel, like i first read
<pleia2> slickymaster: just updating the website ;)
<slickymaster> well, anyway it's related
<knome> slickymaster, did you understand elfy's problem from earlier?
<knome> was he talking about the package tracker maybe?
 * slickymaster is feeling lazyI got the idea that it was about the package tracker, yeah
<knome> i guess so..
<pleia2> okie, http://docs.xubuntu.org/ is updated and I have socks
 * slickymaster is infarcted
<slickymaster> too many grilled lamb ribs for dinner
 * knome longs for the sockless pleia2 
<pleia2> me too, but I didn't bring practical sandals with me
<knome> forestpiskie, package tracker now has vivid series, vivid daily milestone, and xubuntu desktop has a vividdaily build for the vivid daily milestone
 * slickymaster goes pour himself a rum
<knome> pleia2, so you only took the unpractical sandals?
<knome> "a rum"
<knome> sounds like a lot of rum
<knome> a bottle of rum?
<pleia2> knome: yes, good for the beach! but not so good for a pub
<knome> damn
<knome> you should go barefoot!
<slickymaster> lol, no, just a tall glass
<knome> slickymaster, 0.5l? :P
<knome> huhu
<slickymaster> tomorrow is still thursday
<knome> you're incorrect
<slickymaster> ah ah 
<knome> today is thursday
<pleia2> knome: is not allowed :(
<slickymaster> for you, not for me
<knome> pleia2, stupid bar
<knome> pleia2, just go to the liquor store and buy a bottle of rum and follow slickymaster's lead
<knome> bottle of rum on monday
<knome> ++
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> that's the way to do it pleia2 
<knome> eh
<knome> wednesday
<slickymaster> go for it ;)
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> I don't see my family much, need to be social :)
<knome> pleia2, heyyy... ask them to join your hotel room
<knome> :P
<pleia2> +4 yr old nephew
<pleia2> er, cousin's child, what is that?
<pleia2> mini-cousin
<knome> minime
<knome> (^ second cousin)
<pleia2> aha
<genii> Yes, second cousin
<slickymaster> it's only second cousin if pleia2 is a 'direct' cousin of the child parent
 * slickymaster thinks
<pleia2> yeah, I'm that
<pleia2> our moms are sisters
<slickymaster> being so, yes it's second cousin
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: bug 1387413
<ubottu> bug 1387413 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387413
<bluesabre> ugh
<knome> and see #xubuntu for the backstory
<brainwash> oh, yet another Thinkpad user with suspend problems
<Unit193> Close lid => black screen issue, suspend + close lid = a-ok.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-30
<elfy> thanks knome - I guess it must be perms then
<knome> elfy, possibly... i guess you wasn't able to register a serie?
<knome> elefy, (do you have a "series" tab in the admin?)
<knome> elfy too :P
<elfy> no - can't look now obviously with the 403
<knome> oh, duh
<knome> yeah
<elfy> yes I had series tab :)
<knome> oki
<knome> then i guess you just should have registered one
<elfy> had all the tabs in packages that we see in iso
<knome> i don't know what you see in there, but okay
<elfy> it wouldn't let me :)
<knome> aha, ok
<knome> then it's a permissions issues for sure
<knome> i happen to be in the qa-website-devel team, so i guess i have access to *everything*
<elfy> yep - that's why I needed someone (like you) to have a look as well :)
<knome> yep, np
<knome> glad to help
<elfy> thanks anyway :)
<elfy> was just looking at the kubuntu trello board https://trello.com/c/8lGyen85/8-port-kdesu-to-pkexec
<knome> bah, should do some $work (and -ish)
<elfy> might try and follow that - see what they do 
<knome> lol, when i go to that screen, i get a message
<knome> "Thanks for using Trello. You're all logged out." :P
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> oh harald
<knome> sent him a PM and asked to join here and keep us informed
<elfy> bluesabre: where are our pkexec policies? thinking about *others* 
<knome> /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/ ?
<elfy> sorry - too early in the day here ... 
<elfy> I meant which package provides them :)
<knome> generally it should be the package that the policy is for, eg. mousepad for mousepad policy
<knome> but i don't know if we ship (some of) them in xubuntu-default-settings for now
<knome> those are the two options afaik
<elfy> mmm - I thought that was where they were - x-d-s
<knome> if they were there, non-xubuntu-desktop users wouldn't be able to benefit from the policy files we created, so that's why the source packages for the binaries :)
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> that's correct, on both accounts. 
<knome> of course i'm correct!
<elfy> iirc when I did bug report for this at bugzilla - got "what's this for?" I think eric did it in the end
<dkessel> hah
 * dkessel got his xubuntu stickers from unixstickers
<dkessel> didn't know this is an italian company... nice
<knome> me neither
<dkessel> https://i.imgur.com/qtS9vN5.jpg
<dkessel> also, pleia2, if you're interested in what the unixstickers look like ^
<knome> guess i need a set of those at some point
<knome> or want, more accurately
<bluesabre> they're really good quality... I've ordered several stickers, and recently a xubuntu pin
<knome> ok, bbl
<ochosi> morning folks
<slickymasterWork> morning ochosi 
<brainwash> bluesabre: fixed in debian https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=763726
<ubottu> Debian bug 763726 in thunar "thunar: trouble with file associations since glib2.0 upgrade to 2.42" [Normal,Fixed]
<slickymasterWork> knome, I've been wondering about the short glossary of the different tags we use idea
<slickymasterWork> knome, and my doubt is the scope of it, ie., would we only be considering entities from MENUS and items?
<slickymasterWork> or should we broaden this scope to INLINE ICONS and Whisker Menu for example
<slickymasterWork> any thoughts?
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8: ^^^
<pleia2> dkessel: hooray
<knome> slickymasterWork, anything that's used in the docs broadly
<knome> like the packages and keycap icon
<slickymasterWork> hmmm, knome
<slickymasterWork> so much for a short glossary then
<elfy> evening all
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<elfy> what use is a short glossary :p
<slickymasterWork> knome, instead of a "how to read this documentation" section linked to in the welcome section on the main page, I'm thinking if it wouldn't be a better approach to this all glossary thing to make an appendix
<slickymasterWork> elfy, it all started here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/10/29/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t12:11
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8: ^^
<slickymasterWork> thing is that I'm afraid that this short glossary might not end up being so short and it may result in a potential cluttering of the docs 
<elfy> too much doc talk for me I'm afraid ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol
 * slickymasterWork was wondering waht would elfy's reaction be ;)
<Unit193> I'd note thunar 1.6.3-2 was uploaded, but it's already been noted...
<elfy> I've not seen the note noted - so thanks :)
<Unit193> Debian #763726 was fixed.
<ubottu> Debian bug 763726 in thunar "thunar: trouble with file associations since glib2.0 upgrade to 2.42" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/763726
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, oth it just got a fresh one -> bug 1387695Â´
<ubottu> bug 1387695 in thunar "File size displayed wrong" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387695
<elfy> Unit193: I'm not actually plagued by that bug in vivid
<Unit193> mp3 files try to open in audacity, not vlc...
<elfy> not here - they open in clementine - as expected
<knome> slickymasterWork, appendix works for me as well
<slickymasterWork> ok, knome, but don't you think we might potentially be facing something way to heavy to be somehow forced to the main docs structure? 
<knome> hmm?
<slickymasterWork> an appendix would be a good avoiding solution
<knome> wherever we put it (inside the main index, or as an appendix), the markup to create the subchapter is essentially the same
<knome> we can see where it fits the best after we've written it
<knome> the appendix idea is good enough
<knome> we can still link to it in the introduction
<knome> which we probably want to review
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll start doing it, including the markup, and we'll see where it fits the best then
<knome> wasn't jack goint to look at it?
<knome> going too
<slickymasterWork> quite right you are knome, quite right
<slickymasterWork> heh
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8: ^^
<knome> if we want to collaborate on it, push it into a pad :)
<elfy> dkessel: well it appears that work for our stuff on autopilot will actually be usable 
<Noskcaj> Is anyone doing the thunar merge or should i take it?
<dkessel> elfy: good to know
<elfy> indeed - which is why I thought I'd check :)
<elfy> skellat: when you get chance can you add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware please - tia :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-31
<jjfrv8> apologies to slickymaster for my not being around earlier to comment on his glossary suggestion
<jjfrv8> I think the glossary idea is a bit more than I was originally considering
<jjfrv8> my main concern was pretty much limited to the potential for Settings Manager confusion caused by there being two ways to get to it and three names for it
<jjfrv8> would it be out of the question to just remove the icon from the bottom of the whisker menu?
<jjfrv8> I think that would just about take care of both problems
<jjfrv8> bbl, but not for the meeting, unfortunately
<sml> algun lugar de ayuda en espaÃ±ol?
<Unit193> New xfpm upload fixes Debian #763713 with upstream commit.
<ubottu> Debian bug 763713 in xfce4-power-manager "xfce4-power-manager-settings: minimum window size is too big" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/763713
<Unit193> sml: Generally English.
<sml> thanks
<Logan_> Unit193: aw, I could've helped him
 * Unit193 has been rather out today.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, bluesabre: I've merged thunar in a bzr if you guys haven't already. I was using it as an example to teach a person trying to join ubuntu as a developer, so if we could wait a few days to see if he can merge it, that would be great
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: np, let me know when its ready to upload/sponsor
<ochosi> !team | Reminder: meeting in ~45 mins
<ubottu> Reminder: meeting in ~45 mins: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning ochosi
<ochosi> still busy php-ing? :)
<bluesabre> drafting a study guide now
<ochosi> for yourself or for others?
<bluesabre> me
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> can we disable the pink highlight in vivid now?
<bluesabre> will do this weekend
<bluesabre> the code is already in xubuntu-default-settings trunk, so if you have the xubuntu-staging ppa installed in vivid, it should be gone
<brainwash> ok, that's nice
<brainwash> any thoughts on http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=7e8e8669606e662d1ee1e85815000f068f48acd9 ?
<ochosi> haven't tried it yet, but it sounds like something that i'll activate in greybird once we have it
<slickymasterWork> I can confirm that brainwash 
<brainwash> great, hopefully it's not a cpu hog
<slickymasterWork> and morning everyone
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: hi
<brainwash> confirm what?
<slickymasterWork> what bluesabre stated
<brainwash> ok :D
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: well, it'll only hog the cpu once when loading xfdesktop
<ochosi> but yeah, it's something to monitor
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<slickymasterWork> but as it's a testing box it's not a big deal ochosi 
<slickymasterWork> it's meant for destruction, one way or the pther :P
<slickymasterWork> s/pther/other
 * slickymasterWork is not sure if he'll be able to really follow the meeting properly because of the constant annoying TTLs
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8, not sure if I understood you correctly. Do you mean remove the Settings icon from whisker itself?
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^ (http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/10/31/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t00:25)
<dkessel> elfy: I hope you don't mind - I extended the QA pad with an item for discussion of priorities for autopilot tests. If the topic comes up in today's meeting, that would be nice.
<knome> dkessel, just bring it up after any other items under "discussion", or you can just simply add it to the agenda at it will be brought up
<ochosi> !team | meeting time everyone!
<ubottu> meeting time everyone!: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> o/ here~ish
<ochosi> yeah, that would've been my next question
<knome> i'm -ish too, but will be at least loosely following :)
<ochosi> who's around?
<ochosi> right
<knome> and can comment, but not always swiftly ;)
<slickymasterWork> trying to keep myself here
<ochosi> just in case nobody apart from me is *really* around, i guess i'd postpone the meeting to wednesday or something
<knome> huhu :P
<ochosi> otherwise i'd just be talking to myself with a few folks lurking and occasionally commenting and that'd be weird :)
<bluesabre> that's how meetings are every now and then :)
<ochosi> alright then, so let's do this and we'll see how far we get
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct 31 11:01:51 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> well, we can also do a "loose agenda" meeting
<knome> where people can bring up stuff they want to discuss
<ochosi> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> hm sure
<knome> and then we'll #endmeeting at noon
<knome> i guess there aren't too many team updates
<ochosi> knome: how about your action items?
<knome> let me see what there was
<slickymasterWork> at OK Corral knome? ;)
<knome> no formal proposal yet
<knome> #action knome to write a more formalized proposal about the QA process improvements with elfy after N days of comments/feedback for the pad 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to write a more formalized proposal about the QA process improvements with elfy after N days of comments/feedback for the pad
<ochosi> does anybody know about whether pleia2 contacted unixstickers?
<ochosi> otherwise i'd carry that forward too
<knome> the "translations important for xubuntu" list is now at the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Package_translations
<knome> she did
<knome> let me see if i can dig that up
<knome> it was #done in the previous meeting already
<ochosi> #done elfy mail the -devel list to garner comment on pad https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-October/010448.html
<knome> for the record:
<knome> 23:07  pleia2: #DONE pleia2 to contact unixstickers
<knome> 23:24  pleia2: #info unixstickers has sold plenty of Xubuntu items, so we just  need to let them know what we want for the reward based QA program
<knome> 23:24  pleia2: #info unixstickers will also be producing t-shirts soon,  production info here: 
<knome> http://www.unixstickers.com/tshirts/underground-t-shirts/the-ultimate-pirate-bay-tshirt
<ochosi> ah good
<slickymasterWork> #action slickymaster to start a series of run calls for "translations important for xubuntu" list defined in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Package_translations
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to start a series of run calls for "translations important for xubuntu" list defined in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Package_translations
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> anything else you think we should carry forward?
<ochosi> to me it seems like the rest is probably #done one way or the other
<knome> yep
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<knome> oh
<ochosi> ok, if you got anything, #info it now
<knome> #action Elfy to mail -devel re where we support testers 
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to mail -devel re where we support testers
<ochosi> i'd rather move on to discussion after this and leave things open
<knome> ^ that
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<knome> hah
<ochosi> #action Elfy to mail -devel re where we support testers
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to mail -devel re where we support testers
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<ochosi> fixed
<bluesabre> #info Vivid branches for each xubuntu package/project are now open
<ochosi> nice work bluesabre 
<knome> #info Vivid series are up on the QA trackers (which are down ATM)
<bluesabre> #info Daily builds of xubuntu-artwork, xubuntu-default-settings, and (soon) xubuntu-docs for Vivid are up at https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<bluesabre> #info All other daily packages across our PPAs have been updated to build for vivid as well
<ochosi> #info Greybird already has basic Gtk3.14 fixes, ping ochosi when you notice bugs
<ochosi> #info All other themes will still need fixes for Gtk3.14
<bluesabre> #info upower 0.99.x landed yesterday, our packages have been rebuilt to support it... watch for breakage!
<qwebirc11992> grrr
<bluesabre> landed, or is landing... couldn't keep up with lp notifications :)
<bluesabre> I think that's all I have currently
<ochosi> yeah, pitti spammed all our inboxes :)
<ochosi> qwebirc11992: any team updates from your side?
<slickymasterWork> the re-write of the section about upgrading is done and already merged to the main branch
<ochosi> could you #info that properly plz?
<slickymasterWork> thanks for the excellent work elfy done
<slickymasterWork> #info the re-write of the section about upgrading is done and already merged to the main branch
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> ok, let's just open the floor for everyone...
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<ochosi> would be nice to get some feedback on the blueprint sprint
<ochosi> i mean: on the result of the blueprint sprint, which is the workitems
<bluesabre> Nice. work. everyone.
<knome> it's a good start ;)
<ochosi> if you feel that we've covered our basis well, or something is still missing/overlooked
<knome> i mean, i'm happy to see that there are many work items registered
<ochosi> or something that needs review
<knome> that gives us a more realistic view on how much work there is to be done
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> even if we most likely will need to change some wording and add even more smaller blueprints
<bluesabre> the dev blueprint is in good shape, and I'm glad to see others contributing to it
<dkessel> I would like to have some feedback on this QA item: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-autopilot
<dkessel> there is this old utopic specification with a large list of applications on the wiki - I think it would be better to have priorities
<dkessel> like, which applications should get tests first. As I don't believe we will get autopilot tests for 30 apps done this cycle ;)
<ochosi> hm, that is a difficult one
<knome> i guess it's obvious, but i'd start with those which work with autopilot ;)
<bluesabre> I think it would be a good effort for sure... haven't looked into it myself, but I'd be curious to know to what extent we are testing with autopilot
<ochosi> i remember knome was considering to write a proposal to drop abiword and gnumeric
<knome> yeah... i wouldn't start with those anyway
<knome> (even if we kept them)
<knome> catfish  parole  settings manager  run program  app finder  mousepad  screenshot  xfburn  ristretto  task manager
<bluesabre> start with simpler apps and build a core test suite
<knome> those are something i think might be good places to start
<knome> and yeah, in the order bluesabre mentioned, easier first
 * ochosi agrees
<knome> run program should be relatively easy
<bluesabre> agreed... xfburn might be more difficult to create a meaningful test
<dkessel> in that order? (see pad)
<knome> i looked through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Autopilot and thought which of the "works" items would be somewhat "essential" or "important" to xubuntu
<knome> maybe that
<knome> grouped things being "equally important"
<knome> or, "pick whichever you please"
<dkessel> sounds good for a start!
<dkessel> thanks!
<knome> but that's just my opinion :)
<dkessel> what do the others think?
<bluesabre> I agreed already ;)
 * ochosi too
<knome> did you look at the pad?
<knome> i did some subordering on the items i mentioned before
<ochosi> hm, actually, app-finder == run program
 * slickymasterWork lost the arguments but as a matter of principle, agrees with his fellow team members
<ochosi> and functionally == whiskermenu
<ochosi> so i'm somewhat wondering whether we really need to test it that much, as it isn't as important anymore as it used to be
<knome> i'd bet people migrating from other systems *cough* windows *cough* still use it a lot
<ochosi> hm, not sure, i mean whiskermenu does pretty much all that appfinder does too
<knome> well run a poll for users
<ochosi> my guess would be that catfish is actually more important
<ochosi> but either way, we don't have to do a poll to prove or disprove anything
<dkessel> I guess that's all I need for now
<ochosi> dkessel: great!
<ochosi> looking forward to the tests
<bluesabre> so, we're considering swapping evince to evince-gtk... there doesn't seem to be a functional difference, and it reduces gnome dependencies
<knome> any downsides?
<ochosi> yeah, i tried -gtk and it looked/behaved the same
<bluesabre> none discovered so far... I'm thinking it might be a good idea to go ahead and switch now since we're so early in the cycle
<ochosi> +1
<knome> then a +1 and "go ahead" from me
<bluesabre> and we can reevaluate at a later point as needed
<bluesabre> got it
<slickymasterWork> +1 from also
<bluesabre> will do tonight/tomorrow
<ochosi> yeah, better switching now and having more time
<ochosi> fwiw, i don't have the feeling that people really noticed that XChat is gone
<ochosi> the only shitstorm i saw was about the pink highlights
<slickymasterWork> yeah, there's no public nagging about it
<ochosi> (and even that was not very excessive)
<slickymasterWork> about XChat that is
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> did any others of you hear anything?
<ochosi> or: read
<bluesabre> nope
<knome> the next time we plan to drop something, just change the highlight color at the same time and nobody notices
<slickymasterWork> nopes
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> since time is pretty much up and there aren't many new topics brought up i'd say we end today's meeting
<ochosi> thanks to everyone for participating!
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> ttyl
<ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting
<ochosi> #info bluesabre to schedule the next meeting
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct 31 11:56:08 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-31-11.01.moin.txt
<slickymasterWork> thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> minutes will be up in a bit
<brainwash> ochosi: is it worth to include the qt theme selection file in xubuntu-default-settings?
<brainwash> to fix bug 1382741
<ubottu> bug 1382741 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Some apps are displaying a very old styled theme as oppose to greybird" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382741
<ochosi> iirc bluesabre already had a patch for that
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/533
<brainwash> ah nice
<brainwash> branch should be added the report then :)
<ochosi> sure, feel free to do that ;)
<ochosi> meeting minutes are up
<brainwash> bluesabre: the lp number is wrong http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/533
<brainwash> 1373887 is commit 530
<brainwash> bluesabre: you could also add the extra keybinding for screen locking, bug 1033174
<ubottu> bug 1033174 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Improvement in the default keyboard shortcuts (lock screen and shutdown menu)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033174
<brainwash> "Add <Ctrl><Alt>l shortcut for screen locking (xflock4)"
<brainwash> from upstream
<brainwash> the launchpad report also requests "CTRL+ALT+DEL for firing the shutdown menu"
<brainwash> not sure if we could add this too (xubuntu only)
 * slickymasterWork needs a good serach engine to find something in the logs
<slickymasterWork> *search
<brainwash> bluesabre: I guess not, CTRL+ALT+DEL is triggering xflock4 atm
<brainwash> people are used to this binding
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: https://www.google.com/#q=site:irclogs.ubuntu.com
<bluesabre> brainwash: thanks, will take a look tonight
<elfy> <ochosi> #action Elfy to mail -devel re where we support testers
<elfy> ummm 
<elfy> so perhaps if people in team could actually read things I send to the list - that would be awesome :D
<pleia2> elfy: I read it!
<pleia2> but that meeting confused me, I think we had a duplicate agenda from last meeting :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> xchat suddenly appears to have decided to be old school in appearance
<jjfrv8> slickymasterwork, yes, my suggestion was to remove the default All Settings icon from whisker: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/menu0020.php
<jjfrv8> with just the one way to get to Settings from the menu, all of our references to [icon]-> Settings would be unambiguous
<jjfrv8> now that we have the searchable Settings in the category pane of whisker, I don't see any need to have the extra icon
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: opinions ^ ?
<jjfrv8> gotta go, back later
<slickymasterWork> lol, bluesabre, that I already have
<slickymasterWork> I was just nagging with myself ;)
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8, right, but that goes way beyond the -docs scope so the project and the technical leads in particular and the team at large will have to have a say on it
<slickymasterWork> hmmmm
<slickymasterWork> knome, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu is set yet
<slickymasterWork> *isn't
<knome> what a shame
<knome> ;)
<slickymasterWork> just saying it because of the call for translation mail to -devel
<knome> i'll set it up in a minute once i have coffee in my mug
<slickymasterWork> I'm going to mention it and people will start complaining about an invalid link, for sure
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll fix the link in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^^ fixed
<knome> actually..
<ochosi> knome, jjfrv8: i don't have a strong opinion on that. i don't think ppl will really miss it there since we have the category. otoh i don't think the "ambiguity" of the docs is a really a big issue in that respect
<knome> i think it'll show up when there's the first upload for that package
<slickymasterWork> but the url is going to be that one, right?
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> it's not a big issue ochosi, but an issue nevertheless 
<knome> since we've had the icon already, i think it's better to keep it
<knome> and solve the ambiguity docs-internally
 * slickymasterWork nods
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: btw, shall we take another look at the powerman docs sometime next week?
 * ochosi doesnt really remember where we left off
<knome> coffee is yummy
<slickymasterWork> yes ochosi, I've been postponing that because of work/son 
<slickymasterWork> but things are calmer these days
 * slickymasterWork was wondering when would ochosi poke him about that ;)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, same here tbh
<ochosi> i was also busy and it's not on the top of my priority-list
<slickymasterWork> lol, knome, I received that one (in the PM) during today's meeting
<knome> yes :|
<knome> talk about wasting bandwidth
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> knome: about http://pad.ubuntu.com/outdated-debian-screenshots do you know if it's required some form of an account in debian to upload the screenshots?
<knome> you should ask bluesabre 
<slickymasterWork> I'm planning to start working on it this weekend
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre ^^
<slickymasterWork> or Unit193 (for that matter) ^^
<knome> anyway, don't let them not answering keep you back... if you take new screenshots, keep them somewhere until they know where to put them :)
<slickymasterWork> yeah, that goes without saying
<slickymasterWork> knome, thanks for adding  that item to the blueprint
<knome> np
<elfy> evening all
<knome> hello elfy 
<elfy> hi knome 
<elfy> so then knome ... 
<knome> yes? :)
<elfy> what shall we call N days then :)
<elfy> has to be more than 14 or we've done that :S
<elfy> D
<knome> yeah, it's a random integer from 1 to 30 that changes every day
<knome> and the only way to get out of this loop is that the random integer matches the day number we're on.. eg. so the deadline is "today"
<elfy> if we postpone that till after the 6th I've got a week off and can just blast it out
<knome> hasn't happened yet, so we're still stuck
<knome> this weekend and forthcoming week generally look better (less busy) than the weeks before, so fingers crossed :)
<elfy> yea - I like that deadline should just always equal either yesterday or tomorrow
<elfy> I've got little time this weekend - and next week it's only be evenings - if I manage to find any of that elusive commodity
<knome> yep
<knome> let's try to coordinate some time
<knome> tomorrow day is bad for me, but eveningish is good
<elfy> no chance this weekend 
<knome> oh
<knome> duh
 * knome misread
<knome> :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> there's no rush - I'm happy to leave it till the 2nd week of November 
<knome> mhm
<elfy> I'm more concerned about other things atm - incentive/scheduling testing/starting testing than the process page
<knome> yep
<knome> i'm generally interested on the process page because that's a good way to pass on information
<elfy> I agree - I'm not *did-interested* - just less interested ;)
<elfy> s/did/dis
<knome> it's okay :P
<knome> and yeah, got that
<knome> just get used to me nagging about that page ;)
<elfy> that's fine - I'll treat it the same way as people do when I ask for them to test images ;)
<knome> haha
<knome> fair deal
<elfy> :)
<elfy> knome: to be fair, I've done a bit more on that pad in the last N days - the draft proposal is certainly different than it was 
<knome> haven't looked at it, but judging from what you've said in this channel, i guessed it would be :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> hi brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-11-01
<bluesabre> slickymaster: no account required
<slickymaster> ok, thanks for the info bluesabre 
<knome> only account is required and that's the bank account where bluesabre will shadily transfer a random amount of money per screenshot
<slickymaster> that's not for public's ears knome 
<knome> ;)
<skellat> bluesabre: This one needs TLC -- http://askubuntu.com/questions/544243/how-do-i-work-menulibre-in-xubuntu-14-04-14-10
<elfy> so does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware
<elfy> just mentioning that ;)
<skellat> elfy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/skellat/laptop-profile
<elfy> skellat: not what I asked for ;)
<skellat> Notice the editing lock...
<elfy> wut?
<slickymaster> lol skellat, that's what I call thorough 
<skellat> slickymaster, It's merely taking the dump of lshw and slapping on the wiki
 * skellat goes cross-eyed editing tabular matter in MoinMoin
<elfy> skellat: do you get a lock when trying to edit the page I would REALLY like -team to fill in
<skellat> No, I should be the one with the edit lock on it! :-)
<elfy> if you don't then please do so - if you then please report is a a bug with wikie
<bluesabre> skellat: will take care of it...but generally if somebody says the word "root" and mentions alacarte or menulibre, they probably gave their menu files to root
<elfy> skellat: thank you :) 
<elfy> bluesabre: which could *possibly* be some sort of doc page given that "point at docs" belongs to knome
<elfy> in a general sort of root pwnd you page somewhere ;)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Please review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/thunar/merge/+merge/240349
<bluesabre> good morning everyone!
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: looks good, anything else or is that merge-ready?
<ochosi> morning folks
<ochosi> lotsa upower mail lately
 * bluesabre hasn't caught up yet
<bluesabre> whats up ochosi?
<ochosi> not much, but pitti said on -release that the transition in V is done for upower
<ochosi> i still have to test that xfsettings patch you pointed me to
<ochosi> although others seemingly have successfully tested it meanwhile
<bluesabre> oh yeah, please check it out
<bluesabre> it worked well (better than without) for me
<ochosi> thing is everything is already working well, so i can only check for regressions
<bluesabre> yeah, just a quick spot check should be sufficient
<bluesabre> don't want to add any nasty regressions to that code
<bluesabre> ochosi's disapperance can only mean there was a pretty nasty regression
 * ochosi just got busy with other stuff
<ochosi> but yeah, i'm already pulling in git master
<ochosi> already building it
<ochosi> ouch
<ochosi> that makes the minimal dialog pop up a lot
<bluesabre> I think it does that without... sadly
<ochosi> odd, never had that before though
<ochosi> we should try to add in a check whether there's already a minimal dialog open
<ochosi> that might mean we'd have to strip it out of the display dialog code, no?
<ochosi> other than this, i don't notice any regressions
<bluesabre> I can experiment with that...
<bluesabre> do we have a display settings roadmap?
<ochosi> frankly, the version in 14.04 works flawlessly fo rme
<ochosi> no popping up of extra minimal dialogs
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> so i dunno, really, what's up with that
<bluesabre> interesting
<ochosi> we don't really have a roadmap
<ochosi> at least i don't
<ochosi> afaik we've implemented everything we wanted :)
<ochosi> and tbh the dialog feels very polished and finished to me
<bluesabre> yeah, its pretty solid
<ochosi> the last thing we could do is draw all the icons in the minimal dialog with cairo
<ochosi> but it feels a bit overkill atm
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> as long as there are still other bugs to iron out...
<bluesabre> I'll add that to my todo... at least making the minimal dialog a singleton app
<bluesabre> there's value in that anyway :)
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> that'd make the display dialog quite solid again i guess
<ochosi> i mean it's working really well as it is
<ochosi> these are the only notable regressions/bugs i know of
<bluesabre> I'll get the light-locker code done today, btw
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> looking forward to testing it all out
<ochosi> as soon as that is merged we can release 1.5.2
<ochosi> maybe even get that in V
<ochosi> and then start looking at lls
<bluesabre> yeah, lls will be a nice restructure with using dbus bindings instead of writing desktop files
<bluesabre> also have plenty of fixes to do today... will probably get plenty of pings when brainwash gets online
<ochosi> indeed, that'll really make it a lot cleaner and safer
<ochosi> bluesabre: so, you gonna push the patch for hdmi cycling or was asking me to test also asking me to push?
<ochosi> i also added that bugreport about the infinite amount of minimal display dialogs to xubuntu-v-bugs
<ochosi> to keep it on the radar
<slickymaster> knome, pleia2, I was thinking that it would be a good idea to 'mediatize'  http://ubuntu.5.x6.nabble.com/First-call-for-translators-Xubuntu-packages-translations-td5083953.html
<slickymaster> it would be a way to get the message across a wider audience and hopefully get a greater number of translations
<bluesabre> ochosi: you can push if you want, or I'll do it shortly
<bluesabre> neglected the apartment for a week, so been cleaning all morning
<slickymaster> lol bluesabre
<slickymaster> you and me :P
<slickymaster> I finished a few minutes ago
<slickymaster> house keeping sucks
<ochosi> haha, incredible
 * ochosi is cleaning too
<ochosi> time for an early dinner now though
<ochosi> bbabl
<slickymaster> lol house keeping for the xubuntu team weekend :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: any news on bug 1361143 ?
<ubottu> bug 1361143 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please release menulibre-2.0.6 to trusty" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361143
<bluesabre> brainwash: gotta do it again... upload, rejected because I didn't have the cancelled 2.0.4 changelog in there
<bluesabre> gotta dig that up
<bluesabre> basically, a new issue cropped up with the SRU 2.0.3 to 2.0.4, so it was rolled back to 2.0.3 in the archive
<bluesabre> and now I have to include the 2.0.4 changelog which I gotta find
<bluesabre> anyway, on my todo
<brainwash> ok, there seems to be some general problem.. xubuntu and sru updates :D
<brainwash> maybe the process could be improved somehow, somehow it takes too much time in general to get these updates released
<bluesabre> yeah, its a pain... upload, get released to -proposed, verify, wait 7 days, release to -updates, detect regression, roll back to previous version.
<bluesabre> rinse. repeat.
<brainwash> I did reset the theme tweaks (pink highlight), but it's not gone after a relog :/
<brainwash> so it's applying the gtkrc stuff from /etc/..
<knome> slickymaster, worksforme, but let's use https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-October/010454.html <- that url
<slickymaster> ok knome, I assume that's up to pleia2 to do it, now
<knome> i can tweet
<slickymaster> you can? lol you jack of all trades
<slickymaster> besides twitter there's jus G* and facebook, right?
<slickymaster> G+
<knome> yep, pretty much that
<slickymaster> ok, I leave it to you both :)
<slickymaster> and thanks for that knome 
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/528661811932188672
<knome> hmm, i notice, langauge
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/528662337398788096 for the english version :P
<slickymaster> I don't have a twitter account knome, besides the 'language' error what is the difference between the two posts?
<knome> nothing :D
<slickymaster> lol, okay
<pleia2> what day is it
<pleia2> I'll do these things
<slickymaster> it's November, 1st
<slickymaster> Hallowmas, over here pleia2 
<pleia2> I think it's an actual holiday here in Paris, some things were closed
<pleia2> yeah, All Saints' Day is a proper thing
<pleia2> ok, fb and g+ are done
<slickymaster> in most european catholic countries is a holiday
<knome> pleia2, all places closed here too
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-11-02
<Leviticus> !ops | waaa rww ban me
<ubottu> waaa rww ban me: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Pici, Myrtti, jrib, Amaranth, tonyyarusso, Nalioth, lamont, CarlK, elky, mneptok, PriceChild, Tm_T, jpds, ikonia, Flannel, genii, wgrant, stdin, h00k, IdleOne, nhandler, Jordan_U, popey, Corey, ocean, cprofitt, djones, Madpilot, gnomefreak, lhavelund, k1l, rww, phunyguy, bazhang
<Leviticus> !ops | waaa rww ban me
<Leviticus> !ops | yo rww in here
<ubottu> yo rww in here: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Pici, Myrtti, jrib, Amaranth, tonyyarusso, Nalioth, lamont, CarlK, elky, mneptok, PriceChild, Tm_T, jpds, ikonia, Flannel, genii, wgrant, stdin, h00k, IdleOne, nhandler, Jordan_U, popey, Corey, ocean, cprofitt, djones, Madpilot, gnomefreak, lhavelund, k1l, rww, phunyguy, bazhang
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre Noskcaj - just updated vivid - upower upgrade has taken out xfpm -xfce4-power-manager : Depends: upower (< 0.99) 
<Noskcaj> i'll fix that now, unless bluesabre wants too
<Noskcaj> well played pitti + me
<Noskcaj> elfy, Are you sure? looks fine in the bzr
<elfy> Noskcaj: I am completely sure ;)
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/BQhc391s
<elfy> mind you it's possible that xfpm is coming from -staging perhaps 
<elfy> one way or the other, something isn't right
<Noskcaj> i need sleep. i'll try and find a fix tomorrow.
<elfy> ok - so it IS the ppa version, purged the ppa - installed xfpm ok 
<elfy> bluesabre: ^^
<elfy> xfce4-power-manager-data kept back after readding the staging ppa
<dshad14> Hi all
<knome> hello dshad14 
<dshad14> where are you from?
<knome> dshad14, if you want to chat, please join #xubuntu-offtopic 
<knome> this channel is for development issues/discussion
<dshad14> ok, sorry
<bluesabre> elfy: thanks, will flip the switch on the ppa
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks :)
<elfy> bluesabre: what's the chance of getting bug 1382977 fix in 14.10 - seems to be turning up a lot now as an issue
<ubottu> bug 1382977 in thunar "Thunar open default not respecting mimetype" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382977
<bluesabre> elfy: chances are good.  I've been mostly away for a week which is why I haven't tried to fix it yet
<elfy> awesome :)
<bluesabre> ok, new xfpm for vivid build should be in the ppa in ~30 or less minutes
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: let me know when you are around.
<elfy> bluesabre: \o/ upgraded now :)
<bluesabre> yay
<elfy> knome: am about this afternoon and later this evening if you are 
<knome> mm, probably
<brainwash_> bluesabre: people keep adding comment to bug 1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<brainwash_> they use 14.10
<knome> brainwash_, bug 1387413
<ubottu> bug 1387413 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387413
<knome> ^ but don't mark that as a duplicate (yet)
<knome> notice it has extra debug steps done
<brainwash_> maybe it's a good idea to point people to this new report
<knome> maybe it's not
<knome> because then we'll have 50 comments in that and it's less usable for developers
<brainwash_> the question is, do bluesabre and ochosi still care about this annoying bug? :)
<brainwash_> it should be fixed, but some people still report that it's not :/
<knome> they do care about it
<bluesabre> We care, and we've provided a fix that works for most users.
<bluesabre> There is definitely a pattern of laptops that do not work. Lots of Thinkpads, and particular Dell Latitudes
<bluesabre> We're actively developing light-locker to hopefully kill off the issue for good
<bluesabre> But don't really have any additional comments at this time, other than if it doesn't work for you, use xscreensaver
<bluesabre> The community is helping to debug. If we could recreate it on our own hardware, we'd have a better lead.
<brainwash_> nice to hear
<brainwash_> I'm just not sure how to explain the situation to the people who are still affected
<brainwash_> they expect an answer
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, i'm awake now
<Noskcaj> I'll be away for the next week or so, please email me if there's stuff that needs doing
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: do you know if uploading to ubuntu branches results in a package upload as well, or does that still need to be done separately?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-26
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hey there
<ochosi> managed to finalize my first LO patch last night \o/
<knome> congrats
<ochosi> it'll make our experience a little nicer ;)
<akxwi_dave> morning all
<ochosi> plus it removes deprecated gtk code from LO
<knome> ochosi, cool
<knome> hello akxwi_dave 
<ochosi> knome: try alt-tabbing between LO windows and look at the blurry mess that those icons are. so yeah. that will soon be a thing of the past
<knome> \o/
<knome> slickymaster, apparently you didn't change the translation focus for docs; i did it now, and it should update at some point to target at xenial once the automatic import is done
<akxwi_dave> guys, with the development ppa's, i can see on the individual ppa pages that there are new build to install (which i have), but call me thick, i cannot see anywhere to see whats changed in the new one.. I know its monday morning, and i'm still half  asleep.
<akxwi_dave> stupid internet..
<ochosi> knome: quick question, can i still get to the wily tracker somehow? (if you already told me, sorry, i might've forgotten ;))
<flocculant> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/?s=wily
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^
<ochosi> sweet, thanks flocculant :)
<flocculant> only know because he told me and I forgot so serarched logs this morning :p
<ochosi> hehe
<flocculant> ochosi: packages are all updated now, iso should build tomorrow - so I'll be shooting the starter pistol soon
<flocculant> not sure if you caught bluesabre and me rabbiting the other day - but pushing packages more than iso's (apart from when we want iso tested - milestones obviously)
<flocculant> ahah
<flocculant> I can answer you now :)
<flocculant> " i cannot see anywhere to see whats changed in the new one." 
<flocculant> go to the ppa - then just to the right of Overview of published packages - View package details
<flocculant> and when you get there you can check out the changes file
<flocculant> I've not found any easier way of seeing a changelog for something in a ppa
<akxwi_dave> cheers mate, will take a look..
<flocculant> oh great - so there are blog posts about raspberry pi and xubuntu 
<flocculant> I hope we don't get bunches of people in here wanting that 
<flocculant> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-mate-tools-could-bring-xubuntu-lubuntu-and-ubuntu-server-to-raspberry-pi-2-495293.shtml
<drc> Just remember No means No.
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> bluesabre: you haz mail - if you can comment on that I'll get that out - thanks :)
<flocculant> I wish that more people tested installs and upgrades :(
<flocculant> dkessel: I've put nothing on the QA blueprint re autopkg testing - if you think you'll get time to look at it then feel free to add it
<ochosi> flocculant: pkgs over isos sounds good to me
<flocculant> glad you said that :D
<ochosi> hm, do we have any license experts in the team?
<flocculant> not sure 
<flocculant> certainly not me ;)
<ochosi> i wonder if you fork something while it was under gpl2 and re-share your thing under that license, whether a change of the former to gpl3 forces you to change the license of your fork too
<flocculant> ochosi: wish I could help
<flocculant> night anyway :)
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> nighty!
<ochosi> (still trying to get a follow-up to my LO patch today ready...)
<genii> ochosi: A license cannot take effect retroroactively, except in rare circumstance ( like when FSF made gpl3 apply retoroactively to binutils but this was because it was already often supplied without a license or availability of source code). The license which was accepted at the time of the fork is the license still in use on that fork unless the author(s) change it.
<Unit193> flocculant: Changelog, well apt-listchanges actually pulls from the package now, so there's that, or you can check in /usr/share/doc/xfce4-notifyd/changelog.Debian.gz (or sometimes just changelog.gz), using notifyd as an example.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-27
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hey sean
<bluesabre> hey pasi
<knome> what's up?
<bluesabre> nm, just got home from work and dinner
<Unit193> Figured may as well backport the -pulseaudio- from the repos.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras/+packages oh right, forgot about the different dep.
<flocculant> Unit193: changelog - didn't know apt-listchanges - but surely /usr/share won't help to see what's changed in a ppa before it's updated? 
<Unit193> flocculant: Hah, correct.  Though, apt-listchanges can be noisy.
<flocculant> rightio 
<Unit193> flocculant: apt-listdifferences is even more fun. :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I can guess that :D
<flocculant> Unit193: so all in all - checking the changelist on the ppa package detail page is the best option ?
<Unit193> Likely.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - fiddled a bit more with it - but you'll see that anyway :)
<Unit193> xubuntu.xenial: Unit 193 <unit193@....com> xubuntu.xenial * 992 /  supported: Add xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin to supported
<sorinel1o> Unit193, Hello. You wanted to PM me yesterday, but I was off. I'm on GMT+2.
<bluesabre> Unit193: nice
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also hit up whisker.
<bluesabre> also good to see that supported started working for our packageset at some point
<bluesabre> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/xenial/xubuntu
<Unit193> Yes it did!
<bluesabre> did you do that?
<Unit193> Added supported to packageset?  No.
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> maybe something just started working, or somebody fixed a bug in secret
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: well done, looks good
<akxwi_dave> flocculant, I'm going thru some of the testcases for the packages, but the file  a bug link doesn't let me file one..
<akxwi_dave> i'll post a failed for the moment with the bug details in comments and then file the bug report when it lets me.
<akxwi_dave> ok change that to In-progress with the bugs in comments
<akxwi_dave> off for lunch back later
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: in for a short while - when you're back can you explain what "the file  a bug link " refers to :)
<akxwi_dave> hi mate, when you are on the tracker, and go thru the testcase, at the bottom you have th option  to submit the failure or pass etc, on the  option to submit the pafiled, it has a link to File a big
<akxwi_dave> bug*
<akxwi_dave> when you lclick on it, it take you to a page that says... Bug reporting instructions for Xubuntu Desktop
<akxwi_dave> You are currently on: Ubuntu Package Testing
<akxwi_dave> This product doesn't have detailed bug reporting instructions yet.
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: yea - never noticed that before :p
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: basically report a bug with ubuntu-bug packagename (for non-ppa) or if that fails https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/PACKAGENAME/+filebug
<flocculant> changing the packagename to suit 
<akxwi_dave> cheers will try it that way..
<flocculant> then once you've got a number you can add it to a test result
<flocculant> bluesabre: something I just thought of - if we keep getting fails - gmb say - we can disable that from testing, then re-enable it when we know there's a fix
<flocculant> could get that kind of info on qa trello for testers so they know not to bother 
<akxwi_dave> cheers flocculant, reported those bugs
<akxwi_dave> bbl
<dkessel> yay, xenial images are there :)
 * drc bets that if one installs that image, it'll still say 15.10 wily :)
<dkessel> probably :)
<dkessel> just like everytime
<flocculant> I would be extremely surprised if that wasn't the case :)
<flocculant> dkessel: did you catch my ping the other day re autopkg tests? 
<dkessel> flocculant: yup thanks. i'll have a look and only add it back if i am sure something will happen
<flocculant> yep - works for me :)
<dkessel> bluesabre, would it be possible to build the mousepad version in the xubuntu-dev PPA against GTK3, just like the version in wily/xenial?
<flocculant> bluesabre: something odd in xenial - just did an update - now have both evince-gtk and evince installed 
<flocculant> -gtk now appears to have evince as a depends
<flocculant> knome: when you've a handful of minutes :p
<dkessel> do we need to remove some dependencies on python2 in our default packages, or is there nothing left to do for us? i noticed normal ubuntu wants to move to a python3 default installation
<flocculant> no idea myself 
<Noskcaj> flocculant, debian is making evince-gtk go away
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> Noskcaj: k - thanks - now I can't see why we went to -gtk
<Noskcaj> lowering deps, but really it's just the two minor ones listed https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=755071
<ubottu> Debian bug 755071 in evince-gtk "evince-gtk still necessary?" [Minor,Fixed]
<knome> flocculant, hello
<flocculant> knome: hey :)
<flocculant> I'm thinking about the contribute page again ... 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> and now wondering if wiki -> /Xubuntu/Testing/few child pages 
<flocculant> is a better way of dealing with it 
<flocculant> pro's being that each page can grow easily as needed/or shrink
<flocculant> con - being that we've not much control - other than reverting a change
<flocculant> just wondered what you thought of that 
<flocculant> then just have basic information on website pointing elsewhere as necessary
<flocculant> I want to try and start including those like akxwi in stuff tbh 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you have any issues with reverting the evince-gtk dep?
<flocculant> Noskcaj: so reading that - the reasoning is one person didn't like there being 2 evinces? 
<Noskcaj> it doubled the build time, and was mostly unneeded.
<flocculant> apart from the bits that obviously caused us to move to -gtk from evince
<Noskcaj> We seem to already have all the r-deps, so in it's current state this isn't an issue for us
<Noskcaj> since the nautilus thing was dropped
<flocculant> right - as I said I'm not finding why we did it
<Noskcaj> killing the nautilus dep i think
<knome> flocculant, sorry for disappearing...
<knome> flocculant, anyway, i really wouldn't want to start using the wiki more :(
<flocculant> knome: that's ok :)
<knome> slickymaster, you around?
<flocculant> knome: I realise that - but frankly editing website is just a pain 
<flocculant> not the actual editing - the only *foo* can
<knome> flocculant, yep, i'm not exactly saying we should use the website either
<knome> flocculant, maybe the docbook way would be the best, even if it means people need to be able to write docbook...
<flocculant> my issue is making the information both as encyclopaedic as we need and in as short a text per subject as possible
<flocculant> and a website page 6 metres long won't be much fun :)
<knome> yep
<Unit193> TBH, Docbook isn't as nice as other markup languages.
<flocculant> knome: re docbook - I don't care one way or the other - but then where does it land for people to read
<knome> Unit193, but we already use fit for docs
<knome> flocculant, as i said before, it can be any subdomain on xubuntu.org
<knome> flocculant, or docs.xubuntu.org/developers
<knome> flocculant, and we can ship it in pdf
<knome> Unit193, s/fit/it/
<flocculant> so we could docs.xubuntu.org/qa then sub pages? 
<Unit193> I gathered that, and know that yep.
<knome> flocculant, well, i'd make one documentation for all contributor documentation
<knome> flocculant, so sth like docs.xubuntu.org/contributors and then same index as the regular docs
<knome> and structure
<flocculant> right ok - so long as there are *pages* 
<knome> sure
<knome> comparing to http://docs.xubuntu.org/1504/C/index.html
<knome> i would imagine QA would be in the same level as "What is Xubuntu?"
<knome> and different subtopics under that
<flocculant> so say Developer section > Chapters, QA section > Chapters
<flocculant> yep 
<knome> i know the chapters are currently shown all on one page
<knome> but that can be changed
<knome> if we feel like it's necessary
<knome> then also,
<knome> appendix for basic stuff
<knome> like "how to register a launchpad account"
<flocculant> so front page could just be Dev/QA/Docs for instance
<flocculant> yep
<knome> and "how to work with bzr"
<flocculant> saved me typing ... 
<flocculant> lol
<knome> yes, the front page would be a very simple index with a nice hello message
<flocculant> ok - so I can work with that plan - as long as it's not 16.10 :D
<knome> as i said before and as you know, we have the doc building process ready 
<knome> so we just need to copy that and start working on the docbook stuff
<knome> but i'd like to quickly run this through slickymaster 
<knome> to make sure he doesn't completely disagree
<flocculant> yea yea - I understand we have the behind curtain available
<knome> yep, what i'm saying is that there isn't nothing that is slowing us down except ourselves :P
<flocculant> :D
<knome> bbiab
<flocculant> http://xubuntu.org/?p=3559&preview=true
<flocculant> biab too
<Unit193> Also, will pop the new -pulseaudio- into Extras, want -staging too?
<flocculant> Unit193: I guess you're not asking me - but I have extras so ... 
<flocculant> hi akxwi-dave - re the bug reporting link - fixed
<Unit193> flocculant: Honestly?  You'd likely care the most.
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: re the other bug - I changed the package - but the fix is done now
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - so I'll see if from extras is what I meant :)
<flocculant> at least it'll be fairly simple to tell you my world imploded :D
<akxwi-dave> cheers floc, will re-run those test
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: shouldn't need to do that - I saw the issue so I know it's fixed :)
<flocculant> wasn't actually a package problem but a testcase one
<akxwi-dave> ok mate.. :-) 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: also - better to tab people's whole name in IRC - if I wandered off I'd not see floc :p
<flocculant> Unit193: what's the soundmenu plugin? possible replacement? 
<Unit193> soundmenu is the mpris2 (media controls) panel plugin, we liked pulseaudio better and want that to grow them.
<flocculant> k 
<akxwi-dave> Just a quick question on testcases, if I have run some under a vm, would you want those re-doing on real hardware as well? I knwo some would be better on real hardware like power manger etc? 
<flocculant> if something doesn't run properly in a vm - there should be a note to say that
<flocculant> generally for a package testing in a vm is enough to check it works as expected
<akxwi-dave> thanks flocculant.. just wanted to ensure that i don't go to overboard..:-)
<flocculant> you won't go overboard :)
<flocculant> there's no such thing as too much testing in relation to having ~10 people regularly test things :D
<akxwi-dave> nice to know, well time for the wife and wine, have a good evening all
<flocculant> thanks akxwi-dave :)
<flocculant> Unit193: oh - did it fail to build for xenial? 
<flocculant> knome: when you get time can you check out the draft post on x.org :)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> ta 
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: probably fine to go ahead and return to evince
<bluesabre> flocculant: I like the idea of disabling a test if its known to already fail
<flocculant> I'd not thought of that before 
<bluesabre> dkessel: yes, I think that would be logical for -gtk3 mousepad builds to be in the ppa :)
<flocculant> seems a bit silly to leave it there till we know it's fixed 
<bluesabre> agreed
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll go ahead as and when then - just need some sort of agreement about how much fail is enough :D
<flocculant> take gmb - fails when closing - I'd remove it 
<flocculant> and fails all the time - not one person here and there 
<bluesabre> maybe 3 "me toos" and 1 "still affects me, when is it getting fixed?"
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - that sounds fair :)
<flocculant> I'll disable gmb then :D
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: it is mentioned in a post I've got drafted - but adding them to disabled test list at https://trello.com/b/IV66JCHl/xubuntu-qa
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> flocculant: ...I haven't gotten to it yet. :3
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...I'm not supposed to update gmb?
<flocculant> bluesabre: I did check to make sure we didn't lose results from the tracker by the way :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: please update gmb
<flocculant> thought that got turned off ... going to get noisy while I try remembering how to do something ... 
<knome> flocculant, i poked many places in the article - mostly just saying things in a better form
<flocculant> well - depends if it still says what I want it to ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: K, was going to take a vcs snapshot of Debian.
<flocculant> oh my 
<flocculant> read that as vlc and shuddered violently 
<bluesabre> Unit193: good deal
<Unit193> Yeeeah, not touching VLC.  Was thinking about doing xscreensaver merge, if I can line up a sponsor.
<bluesabre> bbiab
<slickymaster> I am now knome 
<slickymaster> evening all
<flocculant> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey flocculant 
<knome> slickymaster, see the discussion about contributor docs just begore that ping
 * slickymaster goes through the backlog
<knome> *before
<knome> flocculant, should do
<slickymaster> I don't disagree at all, knome 
<slickymaster> flocculant ^^
<knome> ok
<slickymaster> tbh today I took a look at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ and it's a big wall of thext
<knome> slickymaster, some of that is totally moving to the contributor docs
<knome> slickymaster, that's part of the reason we want one :P
<slickymaster> thing is, pages tend to grow
<slickymaster> not the other way around
<knome> once we have that, we can keep the stuff on the website at minimum
<knome> even just one page
<slickymaster> yeah, and even though Unit193could be right about the docbook markup value, we do have it now
<slickymaster> Ã£nd we already have a structure build with it
<slickymaster> so it's only natural to use it, imo
<flocculant> slickymaster: "big wall of thext" which is why I'm wanting to do something else 
<knome> flocculant, as i just said... ;)
<slickymaster> yeaps, and that's why I agree with you two
<flocculant> probably - fighting trello too ... ;)
<slickymaster> hm hm
<knome> flocculant, stop typing, you'll just end up repeating me anyway!
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<slickymaster> and besides, we do have a few of us able to cope with docbook markup anyway
 * slickymaster is +1 on that idea
<flocculant> the other day I did fight with the current qa page and docbook so can get a draft on there pretty swiftly to see how it pans out
<slickymaster> flocculant, practice makes perfection 
<flocculant> perfect
<flocculant> :p
<slickymaster> ok ok :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: My point wasn't that the docs could be something other than docbook, but that we wouldn't have to use it with new stuff.
<Unit193> flocculant: As knome pointed out to me, if people don't like the notifications, it's simple to ignore.  Unless there's another issue.
<flocculant> nah - not too worried you all know I do something then kill it and have another go :p
<Unit193> (Notices don't get logged nor ping me. :D )
<slickymaster> ok Unit193, I misinterpreted you
<flocculant> Unit193: yep - saw that afterwards :p
<slickymaster> flocculant, are these already made tests your's? http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/350/builds/105268/testcases
<slickymaster> * yours
<flocculant> knome: ack - that works for me - I'm logged in and can press the button
<flocculant> slickymaster: those are the pkg testsuites we're using this cycle yes
<slickymaster> that's not what I'm asking flocculant
<flocculant> ok - what are you asking then - not sure what you mean :)
<slickymaster> what I'm asking is if it was you who run them and report the bugs?
<flocculant> oic 
<flocculant> a couple - akxwi did a bunch too
<slickymaster> there are already three tests registred
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> correction, six tests
<flocculant> yep
<Unit193> I got a VM on xenial at least..
<slickymaster> I'll run a couple tomorrow
<ochosi> evening all
<slickymaster> evening ochosi 
<flocculant> evening ochosi :)
<flocculant> knome: also - thanks for looking and those changes - should trust you more :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: I presume you saw new python is default?
<flocculant> right - I'm just flailing about now :p
<flocculant> knome: not sure if you wanted to do anymore to that page - if not I'm happy for that to publish
<flocculant> night all :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, what about libdvdcss2 and gst1.0 for restricted?
<slickymaster> night flocculant 
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm no longer maintaining -pa- for trusty. :P
<bluesabre> back
<Unit193> Wow, yer slow, SwissBot.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, python3 is now default for xenial, catfish, menulibre, mugshot should all be functional
<Unit193> bluesabre: 3.4*
<bluesabre> 3.4?
<bluesabre> I thought 3.5 was the goal
<Unit193> Fine, that's the one! :P
<Unit193> !info python3 xenial
<ubottu> 'xenial' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed
 * bluesabre might be wrong
<Unit193> Nope, you're good.
<bluesabre> woot
<bluesabre> and oh yeah, libdvdcss2 exists now
<ochosi> +1 on Unit193's suggestions
<bluesabre> Unit193 is on a roll lately
<Unit193> bluesabre: Been tracking that since saucy or so. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> hi ochosi 
<Unit193> bluesabre: And, it's cooler, I'm finally up and running again. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/gmusicbrowser_1.1.15~ds0-0ubuntu1.dsc ?
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> Unit193: great stuff, I've been slightly less useful the past few days, hoping to have a burst of productivity this weekend
<ochosi> btw, not sure what that thing really is that i linked there on g+, i just remembered that elementary had developed a small helper to login on wifis that need that
<ochosi> and if it's only that it could be interesting
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, I'd have to take a better look at it (take an elementary iso to starbucks)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Review?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll take a look now
<Unit193> Danke.
<bluesabre> initial review looks good
<bluesabre> building it now
<bluesabre> Unit193: builds cleanly, installs fine, runs, still crashes on close, so it seems no worse than where we currently stand :)
<Unit193> "Great"
<Unit193> Ubuntu Installer (5K) [ubuntu/xenial-proposed] gmusicbrowser 1.1.15~ds0-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)   :3
<bluesabre> yay
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-28
<Unit193> micahg: Can we get you to introduce xfdashboard to Ubuntu?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything else
<Unit193> ?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, and Debian added support for lightdm in xscreensaver.
<Unit193> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/xscreensaver.git/commit/?id=79dff7655455327ee5b7376149fa2975fea3e0b9
<bluesabre> neat
<Unit193> Crap, now I need a MOTU.
<micahg> Unit193: is that not in Debian?
<micahg> it appears not, is there any reason we can't upload to Debian?
<micahg> debian 788332
<ubottu> Debian bug 788332 in wnpp "ITP: xfdashboard -- GNOME shell like dashboard for Xfce" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/788332
<micahg> if we get it in Debian, autosync takes care of that :)
<Unit193> micahg: I know, but it is still not uploaded and been sitting there as an ITP/in pkg-xfce for a bit now.
<Unit193> micahg: Also, see -motu?
<pleia2> knome: woo, we can start our press page for 15.10 http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-15-10-officially-announced-uses-libreoffice-writer-and-calc-xfce-4-12-495122.shtml
<flocculant> Unit193: installed xfce4-pulse 
<Unit193> Sounds fun?
<flocculant> well you've not got an immediate Unit193 my world imploded :D
<flocculant> knome: published now
<Unit193> So...Not fun. ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> Unit193: well - volume changes with mousewheel, mute works and mixer starts pavucontrol 
<Unit193> Feature of this release is if pa is killed and respawns, it'll re-attach to pa.
<flocculant> yep - read that
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings_1.2.0-1.html
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh goodie
<knome> pleia2, :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Want me to keep xfce-4.12 up for wily?
<dkessel> flocculant: i want to report an ISO test for xenial here, but there are no tests yet :p heelp :) http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/105523/testcases
<dkessel> i386 is there...
<slickymasterWork> lol dkessel, only us, the i386 underdogs, matter :P
<dkessel> you oldschoolers
<akxwi_dave> :-)
<dkessel> is there a tag for usability tags already?
<dkessel> usability bugs i mean
<slickymasterWork> I think not dkessel 
<dkessel> fyi:bug 1511053
<ubottu> bug 1511053 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "orca is not preinstalled, accessibility settings do not install it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511053
<dkessel> i propose the tag xubuntu-x-usability, as used in this bug :)
<dkessel> cya later
<flocculant> dkessel: just add usability as a tag - please don't start creating ones :)
<flocculant> idea is that we have 3 or 4 tags we can search with 
<flocculant> dkessel: testcases will turn up - ubuntu has none at all atm :)
<flocculant> dkessel: thanks - saw the tag change :)
<dkessel> np :) i just thought a tag only used by us would be easier. but i guess we can filter on other criteria, too.
<flocculant> dkessel: it's not that so much - I just don't want a long list of tags :)
<flocculant> so xubuntu-exp wily xenial ppa usability 
<dkessel> oh i wanted to ask about that... "exp" is for "exploratory"?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> so mostly me for 3 months :D
<flocculant> hi slickymaster 
<flocculant> work
<flocculant> :D
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> I saw you changed the package from ubiquity to casper flocculant 
<flocculant> yep - only because other's were the same 
<slickymasterWork> oki doke
<flocculant> some discussion in -quality with cypermox about that problem
<slickymasterWork> aren't you going to add yourself to it?
<flocculant> luckily it's general and not just us 
<flocculant> I will 
<flocculant> I'll also be mailing our testers so they use the same bug 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/10/28/%23ubuntu-quality.html#t17:50
 * slickymasterWork reads
<slickymasterWork> so, basically they run out of ideas to fix that
<slickymasterWork> :P
<flocculant> well I think that it keeps changing 
<flocculant> so they fixed something - then vb does something - broken again
<flocculant> because it was at least letting you Enter and it would restart once 
<slickymasterWork> let us see how the all thing evolves, on their end
<dkessel> the xubuntu-staging is not set up for xenial yet, could you fix that too, bluesabre?
<dkessel> the PPA i mean
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: so what's the next stage in docs.xubuntu.org/developers thingy 
<slickymasterWork> currently I'm reviewing your MP and writing the -docs build tutorial flocculant 
<slickymasterWork> then I'll start with that
 * dkessel tries to be super annoying today
<dkessel> docs.xubuntu.org doesn't have the wily docs :p
<slickymasterWork> knome or pleia2 ^^^
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: ok - well I will just make some start on what I want locally then :)
<slickymasterWork> speaking about it flocculant, and not trying in any way to question a native speaker, but "The position of the panel, the items it contains are configurable and the Menu are all customizable. See "settings-preferences" for more information on those topics.
<slickymasterWork> doesn't sound right in my head
<flocculant> nothing is going to sound right in mine today 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: what is that actually in? 
<slickymasterWork> lol, still the headache?
<flocculant> because that sounds like the original not my change ... 
<flocculant> yea
<slickymasterWork> it's in the desktop-guide/C/guide-desktop.xml of your MP
<flocculant> oh meh
<flocculant> did that all wrong when I did it the second time
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: can you just inline comment in the MP :)
<slickymasterWork> will do
<flocculant> you wait till you get to offline ... you'll not be wanting to do that 1 by 1 in here ... 
<flocculant> you'll be 0_0 
<slickymasterWork> hahah
<flocculant> basically I replaced repetition upon repetition with 3 warns or notes at the beginning 
<flocculant> and then did some more :p
<slickymasterWork> well, you sure kept yourself busy 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: also I obviously didn't expect to not have to re-look at things 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: yes - I won't promise that sort of thing ever again :p
<slickymasterWork> lol
<drc> flocculant: quick question on the dev ppa's...it's ok to run the staging <and> the daily ppas?  They wont interfere with each other?
<flocculant> shouldn't do :)
<flocculant> I have them all here
<drc> So the " 'useful' second place" option is: 1) install wily, 2) update, 3) add the 3 ppas, 4) update, 5) run as normal until something breaks?
<flocculant> drc: yea - that's pretty much what devs are doing afaik
<flocculant> drc: unless you've no problem with breaking and reinstalling - in which case xenial + ppa's :)
<flocculant> mostly it's about getting as many different people to report things - so if people can use wily they might feel a bit safer
<drc> So, just substitute "install today's daily"  for "wily"
<flocculant> more or less :)
<knome> slickymaster, pleia2 is the only one who can update that
<flocculant> hi knome 
<knome> hey fki
<knome> aÃ¶lskfjglaskfjg
<knome> flocculant, 
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> well time for wife and wine have a good evening all
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm so getting parole crashing here 
<flocculant> thought I'd best cheer you up ;)
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12994203/
<flocculant> have the apport file if needed
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> he's going to hate me by April ... 
<flocculant> if not already :p
<knome> i'm positive about the latter
<knome> :P
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> oh silly me - not a ppa can just report it :D
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> bug 1511136
<ubottu> bug 1511136 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole crash when starting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511136
<flocculant> guess I should do a clean xenial install to wipe the dirty slate clean asap 
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> qa skewing the burndown at the cycle start :p
<knome> hmm
<knome> that doesn't look healthy
<knome> the lines, that is
<flocculant> then it goes Inprogress till more or less the end of the cycle for qa
<knome> hmm
<knome> they are fine in ff
<knome> not chrome
<flocculant> oh yea - odd 
 * knome attempts a quick fix
<knome> should be fixed for chrome
<knome> it isnt beautiful, but...
<flocculant> looks better than it did :)
<flocculant> almost logarithmic before 
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> good job it wasn't - not sure how we'd manage 1000 tasks in 6 months :D
<knome> lol
<Unit193> dkessel: Created it for you so it won't 404 anymore, just has -pa- and xfpm.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-29
<pleia2> knome: still about?
<knome> pleia2, yep
<pleia2> knome: we have bzr access (yay for static.x.o) but no build tools for docs on the server, so I still have to do it locally and then upload the bits we need
<pleia2> knome: aware of anything I should know before this always manual process?
<knome> can't think of anything
<pleia2> ok, I'll build and upload and maybe you can check it
<knome> sure
<knome> i'll update the startpage branch
<pleia2> oh, hm, translations
 * pleia2 needs to make sure she gets those too
<knome> the startpage branch is done
<pleia2> we should write down dependencies for building somewhere, I don't have pdf stuff
<knome> pleia2, just "make" should take care of translations
<knome> pleia2, sudo apt-get build-dep xubuntu-docs ?
<pleia2> knome: doesn't bring in pdf stuff, so I assumed it wasn't set up
<knome> hmm.
<knome> it should
<pleia2> I don't have fop installed
<knome> right, it's in build deps
<knome> but i guess your ubuntu version doesn't have a package recent enough yet
<pleia2> it's vivid
<knome> yeah... it was introduced for wily
<pleia2> aha :)
<knome> (because we didn't do PDFs before)
<pleia2> well, yeah
<pleia2> ok, installing fop and hopefully that'll solve it
<knome> should do
<knome> if not, i'm here :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: D:
<knome> hey sean
<bluesabre> hey knome 
<bluesabre> Unit193: good work upkeeping the PPAs
<knome> bluesabre, any feature requests for the tracker at this point of the cycle? ;)
<bluesabre> Unit193 is making it easy for me to focus on other tasks :)
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> knome: no requests at this time, just looking forward to using it all cycle
<knome> good good :)
<pleia2> knome: http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/
<pleia2> and anyone else
<pleia2> before I update startpage to link to it
<knome> pleia2, looks good to me
<knome> also happy about how the PDFs are turning out
<pleia2> I hate bzr
<knome> heh
<pleia2> ok, can bzr branch directly for the start page, so that's set up now \o/
<pleia2> and done
<knome> great
<knome> hmm
<knome> something backlashed
<knome> but...
<knome> that happens
<knome> :P
<pleia2> uh oh
<knome> it's minor
<knome> you won't notice it
<pleia2> k
<knome> but if you go to the startpage
<pleia2> the pdfs do look good, nice work
<knome> and then open the docs
<knome> you'll notice the bgcolor is different
<knome> and the startpage lacks the shadow
<pleia2> probably overwrote some css thing?
<pleia2> but yeah, I don't notice :)
<knome> maybe
<knome> i don't know
<pleia2> no art brain
<knome> i also just had rum, so no brain here
<pleia2> sorry, I didn't make a backup
<pleia2> haha
<knome> i'll fix it for 16.04
<knome> np
<pleia2> wfm
<knome> the branch should have that stuff
<knome> or maybe i didn't fix that to begin with!
<knome> there's no trace of that in the branch at least
 * knome shrugs
<pleia2> knome: want to tweet about docs + yay pdf!
<pleia2> ?
<pleia2> I can do the other social medias
<knome> sure
<knome> ...what
<knome> 42 notifications @twitter
<knome> apparently we didn't tweet release
<knome> oops
<pleia2> yeah, I certainly didn't, was in the middle of many airplanes
<knome> tweeted that now
<knome> next the new docs
<knome> aaaand done
<pleia2> same
<knome> anything else?
<pleia2> someone did g+
<knome> we should likely sit down some day to wonder about X marketing/community stuff
<knome> and a plan for the website stuff too
<pleia2> yeah, probably has to wait for december
<knome> sure... though we might have a little one here then ;)
<pleia2> that's ok
<knome> haha
<pleia2> I'm still in japan, and have trips to DC and Philly in November
<knome> well, you won't hear the screaming there
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> ok, back to conferencing
<knome> mhm, hf
<Unit193> bluesabre: Except I don't touch trusty. :P
<knome> time to sleep
<knome> ttyl
<drc> clear
<Unit193> We're losing him!
<drc> He's not alive!
<drc> It's all right, the brain from from someone named Abie Normal anyway.
<flocculant> morning 
<akxwi_dave> morning mate
<flocculant> morning akxwi_dave 
<flocculant> had an issue with parole yesterday - time to clean install a new slate for me to break :p
<akxwi_dave> :-) what problem - i did a test last night on parole and it seemed ok (apart from some of the movies from the suggested download area were porn)
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I went to the channel for that - and got an isiot saying they were the the webmaster and comments along the lines of "oh there's porn on the web"
<flocculant> so I just left 
<flocculant> need to find a link to a specific video and audio and change the testcase to those 
<flocculant> and it just crashes :)
<akxwi_dave> ouch..  have fun with the re-install...
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: I guess you're like me - look for the right sounding folder - pick the first file - play it and 0_0 :)
<akxwi_dave> oh yes... I did..  got funny looks from the wife when it started playing..
<flocculant> should do that today really - you might have been 13 ... 
<akxwi_dave> :-)
<akxwi_dave> add 33 to that figure.. :-)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so it seems that this odd parole crash I have is vid only :p
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: can you check a vid where you are? 
<flocculant> nvm - not awake will check in vbox :D
<akxwi_dave> yep i can do.. got botth vivid and xenial on vms here
<flocculant> samples.mplayerhq.hu/MPEG1/zelda%20first%20commercial.mpeg
<flocculant> make sure it's not nsfw :)
<akxwi_dave> :-) that was the second one i ran yesterday
<flocculant> oh - so more porn :(
<akxwi_dave> no that ones good.
<bluesabre> I usually use https://download.blender.org/durian/trailer/sintel_trailer-480p.ogv
<flocculant> oh good :D
<akxwi_dave> its the other in that folder thats the oron one
<bluesabre> can even be played with parole's open location
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - I'll use that one then 
<bluesabre> np
<bluesabre> ogg means you won't have to fiddle with codecs :)
<flocculant> that too 
<flocculant> parole appears to play flac ootb too 
<bluesabre> cool
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll change the testcase so we grab an audio and play it, but use open location for that ogv 
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool, yay test variety!
<akxwi_dave> lol
<flocculant> ok - as soon as the change is approved I'll get that to the tracker
<flocculant> bluesabre: see this is why it's good to have people like akxwi_dave about :) he should almost hang about as much of the cycle as he can so I can dragoon him into xubuntu-qa :D
<akxwi_dave> flocculant, :-) well I'll be here as much as possible..  been using ubuntu on and off since the 9.04 release and xubuntu since 10.10 want to give something back.. been testing as much as possible from  the 13.10 
<flocculant> then hang about in here and you can get more involved - tbh someone involved enough to have a bit of time to help me with other bits and bobs would be awesome
<flocculant> like for instance proposing the testcase fix
<flocculant> up to you obviously, but the -qa team was setup so that people involved more than 'normal' had a possible way to join the xubuntu team itself
<flocculant> anyway - back in a short while in a new install :)
<akxwi_dave> That would be great, deffo something i'm interested in..   have fun and see you on the new install :-)
<knome> ooh ooh, potential new team members
<akxwi_dave> o7
<knome> i've seen your nick in the tracker too - thanks for the work and welcome to the irc side of things too!
<akxwi_dave> Cheers Knome. Glad to be here.. 
<knome> i'm sure flocculant has said it, but if you ever have anything... just ask :)
<akxwi_dave> will do.. :-)
<flocculant> silly installer
<flocculant> well ... silly flocculant 
<knome> :P
<flocculant> thought I had xenial on it - nope ... trusty
<knome> hah
<knome> good luck with that...
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> later
<akxwi_dave> laters
<akxwi_dave> flocculant, did the same myself, re-installed my test laptop,  and couldn't fine an uptodate installer, so installed from 14.10 and just upadted each version.
<flocculant> oh my 
<akxwi_dave> well I was playing world of warshiprs on my other pc, so couldn't download a new iso.. :-)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> ok - off again :)
<akxwi_dave> :-)
<tracker0> I do like the tracker irc tool :)
<tracker0> hanging formatter in the installer 
<flocculant> which then appears to have killed the stick too so restoring that now :|
<flocculant> and formatted the new partiton while I'm here :)
<akxwi_dave> not going well then.. :-)
<flocculant> not too well :p
<flocculant> and off I go again :D
<akxwi_dave> off for lunch// cya later
<flocculant> that was a barrel of laughs ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: you'll be pleased to know that it was me that appeared to have killed parole :p
<akxwi_dave> and back..  
<akxwi_dave> flocculant,  up and running again?
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> had some bizarre systemd issue ... 
<flocculant> welcome back
<akxwi_dave> thx, what a prat, I have two vms running and retsrated the wrong one..  :-)
<flocculant> :D
<akxwi_dave> well at least the test works on both.. :-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: landed that testcase fix now - you can tell the wife :p
<akxwi_dave> flocculant, cheers.. she won't think i'm as big a pervert now...  :-)
<akxwi_dave> another iso build up I see..
<flocculant> they build at 09:50 ish every day 
<akxwi_dave> ahh.. will have to keep an eye on that then
<akxwi_dave> am i right in assumming that each build is the same as the previous but with all the latest updates on them?
<akxwi_dave> so i can have a vm unning xenial that is apt-get update && Upgrade upto date and then keep a sepertae ne for the iso testing?
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> and zsync the iso ofc
<akxwi_dave> sorry bout that.. managed to kill virtualbox, by plugging in an external hdd
<flocculant> got to love vbox 
<akxwi_dave> seriously thinking about getting out an old copy of vm workstation that i bought age ago.
<flocculant> not used that for a long time
<akxwi_dave> use vmware esxi server at work, and brought workstation 7 years ago in a sale to show my old work the wonders of ubuntu as a platform for the intranet server
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: thinking about it more - if you want to get more involved then I'd be happy to add you to the -qa team
<flocculant> but I will actually ask you to do things :p
<akxwi_dave>  Cheers..thats fine with me - more than happy to help.. and don't mind doing stuff to help
<akxwi_dave> will give me an excuse to finish off my test lab at home.. :-)
<flocculant> added then :)
<akxwi_dave> thx.. :-)  finally sold my soul to Xubuntu
<flocculant> ha 
<knome> akxwi_dave, welcome!
<flocculant> it's nice to have new people about :)
<akxwi_dave> Cheers flocculant , email received... nice to be onboard
<flocculant> :)
 * knome dances a silly dance and leaves for a shower
<knome> ttyl
<akxwi_dave> just had the /etc/mtab error on todays iso build 32bit
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: I suspect that we'll see lots of people saying that - they changed a quite warning to a halt to get it reported - if I read between the lines correctly
<flocculant> me too bug 1511376 is enough
<ubottu> bug 1511376 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "install writes /etc/mtab as file, not symlink" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511376
<akxwi_dave> reported against that bug and marked it as affecting me as well
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> akxwi_dave: was it a vm? 
<akxwi_dave> yes.. 
<akxwi_dave> 32bit
<akxwi_dave> i see the oteh report was for 64
<akxwi_dave> other*
<flocculant> ok cool
<akxwi_dave> time to go.. got to visit another office before going home.. cya later
<Noskcaj> Did we end up deciding to switch back to evince in the metapackage?
<flocculant> bluesabre> Noskcaj: probably fine to go ahead and return to evince
<Noskcaj> ok
<ochosi> akxwi-dave: welcome to the QA team :)
<knome> hello o
<knome> chosi
<ochosi> hey k
<ochosi> nome
<akxwi-dave> cheers ochosi 
<akxwi-dave> and thanks
<flocculant> ochosi: poor you - I haz question :p
<flocculant> what do you know about the gtk indicator - works for gmb not for what I use
<flocculant> and good evening :)
<knome> hello
<flocculant> hello
<Noskcaj> is there a current bzr branch for xubuntu-meta?
<flocculant> works for banshee it seems - not rhythmbox though either
<knome> flocculant, soundmenu
<flocculant> ?
<knome> flocculant, the thing that doesn't work for you but works for gmb
<knome> flocculant, is called soundmenu
<flocculant> is it? 
<knome> if that helps..
<knome> well if i'm thinking the ame as you
<knome> click an indicator -> shows play buttons etc
<flocculant> yea
<knome> yyyep, that's soundmenu
<flocculant> well there's no package called that
<flocculant> but bug 1245495 was commented on by seb the other day 
<ubottu> bug 1245495 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox controls and track info broken" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245495
<flocculant> I just did too
<knome> indicator-sound sounds like the right package
<flocculant> yep - pretty sure that's the kiddy
<akxwi-dave> night all.. time to go..
<flocculant> cya akxwi-dave 
<flocculant> !team | can someone with a laptop AND a battery run through this http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/350/builds/105268/testcases/1582/results 
<flocculant> I tried - but ~2 minutes battery life :D
<flocculant> oh meh 
<knome> that much? :P
<flocculant> yea :p
<drc> I can/will, but the inactivity requirement for 15 min and the suspend will make it later tonight (~1 1/2 - 2 hours from now)  I'll ask before starting if you still need it done.
<flocculant> drc - yea - I think I got it right, but couldn't with no battery - later is fine
<drc> Actually, it'll be interesting to see...I've never suspend this laptop in 8 years of owning it :)
<flocculant> drc: if there are problems can you report it to testcases https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug 
<drc> yup
<flocculant> title incuding 1582, so we don't need to search stuff :p
<flocculant> drc: cheers :)
<Unit193> Netbook doesn't suspend so well.
<flocculant> drc: also - it would be extremely handy to know how long it takes to run it all - I can add that to the top of the test 
<drc> ok
<flocculant> Unit193: laptop does everything ok with the mains :p
<ochosi> flocculant: gtk indicator? you mean indicator sound?
<ochosi> ah right, now i see it in the backlog.. :)
<knome> silly
<ochosi> so what's up with that?
<ochosi> i mean how does it not work for you and what is the consequence?
<knome> doesnt' work -> makes him grumpy
 * knome hides
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> right, but what's the relation to gmb then?
<flocculant> I never use it - but we test it 
<ochosi> also makes him grumpy? :)
<knome> ochosi, yep
<flocculant> ochosi: there's no relation to it - other than that bit at least works :p
<flocculant> ochosi: and I found a bug too - so all done I guess 
<drc>  Are we playing "music app, music app, who's got the music app" again?
<flocculant> nope
<drc> whew!
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> though we should, but perhaps at a meeting :D
<Unit193> I did not read that.
<flocculant> Unit193: I said - we should, but perhaps at a meeting :p
 * drc whimpers
<knome> hahah
<ochosi> :D
<knome> flocculant, well done sir
<flocculant> though on the other hand perhaps it should just go straight to m/l so we don't talk in circles for hours :p
<knome> circles > elliptic circles
<flocculant> pretty straightforward with option A/B on the spec if you ask me
<flocculant> knome: depends on what one has imbibed ... 
<drc> Yeah, that's what we all thought last time.
<flocculant> I'm being positive
<flocculant> ly ludicrous 
<knome> flocculant, on drugs?
 * knome hides
<flocculant> no hiding will work 
<drc> no, on rap
<flocculant> well now I'm just insulted 
<knome> hah
<flocculant> he he 
<flocculant> was music better when ugly people could make it 
<knome> flocculant, judging on rap, no
<flocculant> :)
<drc> Yeah, that's Ludicrous 
<flocculant> I seem to pick good things to report as bugs lately - they get fixed :p
<ochosi> hehe
<flocculant> ochosi: had loads of fun this morning trying to do an install 
<flocculant> admittedly some of it was facepalm :)
<ochosi> is that why you're in such a good mood? :)
<knome> ochosi, yeah, he likes slapping his face
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well I didn't say who I had doing that ;)
<drc> Someone told me he has a "Whip me, Beat me, Love me"  tattoo...which is probably why he became the QAL.
<flocculant> and nice to have other people joining in this cycle too 
<flocculant> yea yea 
<flocculant> s/other/new
<flocculant> akxwi doesn't know that he's in charge of editing testcases yet :p
<knome> oops
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> haha
<flocculant> knome: just quickly - because it's the weekend already - is there a lot of work that needs to be done to set up the dev docs thing? 
<knome> not too much
<flocculant> ochosi: and do you know that either you or bluesabre are pegged to set the first meeting? 
<flocculant> knome: cool - the more I look at contribute the more I'm glad I don't read it :)
<knome> :9
<flocculant> I knew it was long - but it needed to be somewhere ;)
<ochosi> flocculant: right, i think i read that somewhere in the backlog
<ochosi> i'll set one up
<flocculant> not that I mind cos you'll set it for when I'm not about :p
<drc> Interesting...I had deleted the Power Manager icon from my panel...for the test I put it back.  After install making my panel 32 pixels changes the icon to a green battery...adding it back shows the monochrome icon.  On purpose?
<knome> drc, bigger panels do not have the symbolic icons
<flocculant> that 
<drc> symbolic = green or monochrome?
<knome> monochrome
<flocculant> mmm 
<ochosi> actually let me correct you there:
<flocculant> actually here mine is monochrome regardless
<ochosi> symbolic icons would adjust to the panel color
<ochosi> dynamically
<ochosi> xfce4-power-manager 1.5.x does that already
<ochosi> but the 1.4 branch is still gtk2 so it doesn't
<flocculant> ok - so I have 1.5.x here 
<drc> OK, 1.5.2
<ochosi> and that version should also always remain symbolic, regardless of panel size
<flocculant> but now you mention it - when I installed the icon was green, I removed it - just added it back and it is now monochrome
<ochosi> earlier versions made the distinction whether to show a monochrome or colored icon based on icon size
<drc> OK, I didn't have 1.5.x when I installed, that explains it.
<ochosi> which is not a great idea, but there were no alternatives
<ochosi> so in our icon theme all icons >32px are not monochrome anymore
<ochosi> because we assume they're shown in another context (lists, menus, notifications..)
<drc> Oh, I need to quit wasting tine here... flocculant  wanted a time hack.
<flocculant> hah - no rush at all drc :)
<ochosi> but in gtk3 the icons recolor dynamically (that's what symbolic icons mean in gtk-land)
<flocculant> I really should push for the panel to default to what I use so I am always on default :p 
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> or you create a testuser on your machine that has the defaults, so you can at least always quickly check
<ochosi> but this is not about panel config, it's about xfpm version
<flocculant> omg add a user that's the same as everyone else - dodgy 
<flocculant> I shall end up with cramp from muscle memory :p
<ochosi> ask someone in your team for a muscle memory massage then
<flocculant> pretty sure I can cope ... 
<flocculant> knome: not sure if you're still around, but thinking about "Methods to inform team of auto iso testing" - for that we are reliant on what gets done by nuclearbob et al - which could be who knows when
<knome> flocculant, of course i am, it's not even 1am yet!
<flocculant> but we can tell whether something has gone horribly wrong with the build from the buildlog size - either a massive rise or drop
<knome> right...
<knome> would it help if that information was in the tracker?
<flocculant> possibly - gives people - read me - a ball park it's probably ok 
<flocculant> and of course while I know the time - I was just being polite :)
<flocculant> knome: currently I grep it with krytarik's script 
<Unit193> knome: Now, gogogo! :P
<drc> flocculant: Does it matter that I'm running the "Big 3 PPA's" for this test ? ) 
<knome> :D
<flocculant> drc: not at all :)
<drc> OK
<drc> flocculant: Still testing, but quick note In the on the test page itself 'Display->Handle display power management Has no "Handle" ' and is not "tickable" but an on/off button.
<flocculant> drc: ok - if you could note those things - then report it we can sort them out 
<drc> Did not know if you want comments on the test itslf in the report itself.
<drc> Gottcha :)
<flocculant> nah - if there are things then I'd have to make a bug from the comments anyway :)
<flocculant> knome: anyway so if that did tickle a fancy perhaps a line on overview would save me at least time if we didn't get rss jenkins reports
 * Unit193 sets up SwissBot with RSS too. :---D
<flocculant> :)
<knome> flocculant, oh right, we have rss..
<flocculant> knome: well we would if it was working :)
<knome> heh
<flocculant> as you'll see message left for nuclearbob
<knome> mm
<flocculant> don't know enough about the issues to even make a judgement call
<knome> heh
<flocculant> hibye 
<flocculant> ochosi: see - I knew it :p
<flocculant> I'll have to be represented by the Ghost of QA Present :)
<flocculant> with this clean install firefox appears to not be insisting that text in tabs/url bar/bookmarks isn't some dark font - which it has been forever
<flocculant> and it's not a clean ff profile either - so it's not that
<flocculant> seems to be respecting the Ubuntu font I have set 
<drc> Hey flocculant, I'm going to have to finish this testing later tonight (or possibly tomorrow morning...my time :)
<flocculant> yep - thanks for looking at it for us all :)
<drc> And you're sure that the ppa's don't change the wording in the screens?  Because I'm finding several major descrepencies between the screen and the test wording.
<flocculant> shouldn't do - I will double check things
<flocculant> drc: as always - if someone writes something - when they read it they tend to see what they mean, rather than the words 
<flocculant> mneaning me :)
<drc> Yup, that's why when I was in Grad School we always traded papers to read.
<drc> especially thesis/dissertations.
<flocculant> yep - I made the ex-wife read mine 
<flocculant> and I still managed +70% on the diss :p
<drc> I didn't make my wife read anything (although it might have been a good idea, she knows nothing about what I was studying)...myaby that's why she's not my ex- :)
<Unit193> I won't be at the meeting.
<flocculant> drc: :)
<drc> But yeah, check each line of the instructions with the screen, several times it reerences different wording and/or things that aren't there.
<flocculant> drc: thanks :)
<drc> When I go thru it again, I'll keep notes of that sort of thing.
<flocculant> ta 
<drc> laters all
<Unit193> Suppose the agenda hasn't been updated?
<flocculant> nope 
<flocculant> someone else should do that or I'll add media player :D
<Unit193> Looked all the same.
<knome> flocculant, media manager :P
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> no-one had cleared the old stuff so I did :D
<flocculant> knome: seriously on that - when we do start that decision - might be useful to know what the poll we ran said about that stuff
 * flocculant suspects a split between kept gmb and installed something else and removed gmb and installed something else for the most part 
<flocculant> but I'm biased :p
<knome> flocculant, that being media manager?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> trying not to name it - it's almost voldemort :D
<knome> i would say the meeting after the kickoff meeting would be good
<knome> well, the kickoff meeting too, if it's very quiet
<flocculant> :)
<knome> it needs to be soon
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> re that wiki page - I wonder if when ali1234 did gmb it read mp3 length when file read - probably, I think it's default setting 
<flocculant> adds enormously to lib build time
<ali1234> hi
<flocculant> hey ali1234 
<ali1234> when i did those tests i did it in the most obvious way possible
<ali1234> i didnt change any settings
<flocculant> ali1234: right - thought so 
<ali1234> i just did it like i was a new user who had no idea how to use the software
<ali1234> because in most cases that was actually the case
<flocculant> yep - as one would expect 
<flocculant> I have a change in our docs for that issue - with my library it is just stupid - I went shopping 
<flocculant> ali1234: also the apport thing - I didn't actually point you to anything :D
<ali1234> yes that... why do you think i know anything about apport?
<flocculant> because I remember you talking about adding Crash :)
<ali1234> ah yes
<flocculant> which I now see I've not got in there ... 
<flocculant> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
<ali1234> well, i only know about that because i had to spend 6 months trying to find out how to get proper crash dumps from apport in release
<flocculant> there's a bit about dealing with crashdb.conf
<flocculant> mostly because wily was almost over before they turned it on 
<ali1234> you shoulnd't need to add anything in a beta
<ali1234> the point is they turn off "Crash" in release
<ali1234> so crashes don't go to lp, they go to euc instead
<ali1234> and then nobody ever sees them
<flocculant> yep 
<ali1234> so basically all i know is here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/150476/how-do-i-submit-a-full-bug-report-with-crash-dump-and-steps-to-reproduce
<flocculant> ali1234: if you could look at that - because I got a bit fuddled 
<ali1234> look at that?
<flocculant> oh ok - I'll read that too 
<flocculant> ali1234: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ the bit about crashdb.conf 
<ali1234> hmm okay
<flocculant> you don't have to obviously :)
<ali1234> commenting out the whole line is probably a bad idea
<ali1234> instead just add 'Crash' as described in the AU question
<ali1234> although maybe that's how they do it, i'm not sure
<ali1234> also, i sure wish it was possible to report bugs on PPA packages
<flocculant> ali1234: I just did that from what they do in cycle to enable it - seems that the change to turn it off removes the # 
<ali1234> okay, it is probably overriding another variable somewhere else then
<flocculant> ali1234: and yes - reporting a PPA bug would just be great 
<flocculant> ali1234: yep - that's my understanding 
<flocculant> welcome back drc :)
<drc> Yeah, got that done fast also....
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy.
<flocculant> ali1234: if I find out re apport do you want to know? 
<bluesabre> hiya Unit193 
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> howdy flocculant 
<flocculant> hung about to annoy you :D
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> oh no!
<flocculant> bluesabre: I marked that parole issue invalid - cos I think it was that install 
<bluesabre> flocculant: oh, thats good news
<bluesabre> I didn't want to say that I did not have a good idea of how to fix something with messages like that
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> also fixed the testcase so if someone finds porn it's not our fault :p
<drc> I missed pr0n!?!  I quit.
<flocculant> I have a copy of the old testcase still :D
<knome> it will always exist in the branch history
<drc> Psst...hey kid, wanna free sample of testcase?  Sheesh :)
<flocculant> knome: somewhere given I broke it a bit today :D
<Unit193> knome: Why you no pokeypokey?!
<knome> Unit193, i'm lazy
<flocculant> not shaving enough ... 
<ali1234> flocculant: i know enough about apport i think :)
<flocculant> ali1234: :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I sense an 'oh god' before the apport :
<flocculant> D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-30
<flocculant> probably why things like pareole break for me - I have no cares :p
<drc> No, it's becasue apps don't like you..hence perfect QAL.
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> I knew I would WIN
<drc> 8 or 10?
<knome> 9.
<flocculant> 7
<flocculant> always 7 
<drc> as long as it's not 98ME
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> 6 was my favorite number before but now i don't care
<flocculant> always 7 
<knome> bluesabre, you should really join #ubuntu-quality 
<knome> bluesabre, otherwise me and flocculant start telling you silly things we don't understand, and with our little "manipulation", nor won't you
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> you CAN apparently make ubuntu-bug work with PPAs
<flocculant> knome: like that? 
<knome> heh, well, maybe...
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> suppose I'll join then
<bluesabre> I wonder if I might regret this
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: I promise not to too often link youir quote :D
<bluesabre> which one?
<bluesabre> the "give us all your bug reports" one
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> the "we want all your usabilty issues as bugs one
<flocculant> which I make up from 2 ro 3 different quotes
 * flocculant should run for office .... 
<knome> yes
<knome> the bad typing dept.
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> would I win?
<flocculant> silly flocculant 
<flocculant> ofc you would :P
<drc> It's unanimous
<bluesabre> +1
<flocculant> woot I win then 
<drc> <flocculant> I knew I would WIN
<drc> egotist
<drc> and with that, I concede and "goodbye"
<flocculant> I would like to take this opportunityy to win things for drc - we are all equal, or old or stuff
<flocculant> o 
 * bluesabre forgets that his youth escapes a bit more each day
<flocculant> he missed winning :(
<flocculant> bluesabre shouldn't do that 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Soon you'll be a cranky old man like the rest of us.
<knome> or, with some exact surgery, cranky old lady
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ha ha
<akxwi_dave> flocculant, I retried the window snapping last night on real hardware (fresh install) and its working as is.. On my old vm it isnt, however, i have just built a fresh Xneial VM from the 1st iso release and snapping is working fine.  So I'll assume that there is something wrong with my original VM.
<akxwi_dave> oh and Morning by the way..  :-)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> morning all
<akxwi_dave> Morning
<drc> OK, Before I dive back into flocculant's "Xfce4 Power Manager Settings" Testcase, I'd like to clear up a little confusion I'm having re: Power Manager plugins.
<drc> It appears that there is a Power Manager plugin that is installed in the panel by default and is independent of either the Notification Area or Indicator Plugin.
<drc> It also appears that there is a Notification Area Power Manager Indicator/plugin that is activated via the XFCE Power Manager Settings/General Tab (System tray icon)
<drc> Both these do the same thing, abeit is slightly different fashions.  Am I correct so far?
<drc> And that the Power Manager plugin is now monochromatic while the "System Tray icon (maybe not the best working, not sure we have a system tray now) is colorized.
<drc> SO my question is:  Is this by design, we really want both of these?
<drc> After thinking for a bit, I wonder if this results from folks wanting the old "Indicator Plugin" battery indicator?
<Unit193> Right, so one is an xfce4-panel plugin, one is a tray icon, for say tint2.  The panel plugin should have more features, or generally be slightly better than the plain tray icon.
<drc> Unit193: From what I see, they do the same thing, except one uses a right click and one uses a left click.
<drc> Hey flocculant, quick question on "Xfce4 Power Manager Settings" Testcase.  Why was Display-> Brightness reduction not tested?
<drc> Other than some (still) wording on the testcase itself, everything work as advertised.
<drc> Submitted a "Pass". But what do you want in the Hardware profile?  I <can> use a inxi -F :)
<slickymasterWork> or you can go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware drc
<slickymasterWork> and then just add the gist github link
<drc> reading now
<Unit193> ...That is a horrible page.
<slickymasterWork> that's what I use whenever I need to add my hardware profile either on the tracker or LP
<slickymasterWork> yes, it is
<akxwi_dave> thats one o fthe reasons i typr mine in the comments.. :-)
<drc> OK, pretty straight forward until it comes time to "edit the top table only"  How would one go about doing this? I see nothing that would let me edit it.
 * drc wonders if he'd get away with just saying "Apple ][" ? 
<akxwi_dave> dare you... :-)
<drc> To misquote Red Skelton "He don't know me very well, do he?"
<flocculant> good day everyone 
<flocculant> installs are still fubar with the mtab thing I see :)
<flocculant> off shortly and will be back Sunday :)
<akxwi_dave> going anywhere nice?
<flocculant> god-daughter and her family - Brighton 
<flocculant> have a good weekend 
<akxwi_dave> enjoy flocculant, have a good time..
<slickymasterWork> drc, you're not obliged to add yourself to that table
<drc> I know, I was just wondering if I was missing something obvious.
<slickymasterWork> all you need is the gist github link itself, since it's where your hardware specs are listed
<slickymasterWork> did you login successfully in the wiki? 
<drc> My guess is no.
<slickymasterWork> so that's probably why you weren't able to edit it :P
<slickymasterWork> tbh the wiki is a pain, anyhow 
<drc> Like I said, something obvious :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<drc> All I really care about is "what do they want me to put in the "hardware profile" of the test cases"  If Dell 1420n is enough, I'm good.
 * slickymasterWork doesn't have a clear answer to that
<slickymasterWork> ballons would be the one
<slickymasterWork> * balloons
<drc> I may just go with that Apple ][ ... see how long it takes someone to ask "Really?"
<slickymasterWork> lol
<drc> Silly Ubuntu One/wiki/whatever logins...running in circles
<drc> That's why I gave it up years ago :(
<drc> It seems like it's more about the infrastructure itself than what you do with it
<slickymasterWork> yeah it's really annoying 
<drc> BAH!  Apple ][ it is :)
<akxwi_dave> ;-)
<drc> hey akxwi_dave ... and congrats on becoming a "made man" :)
<akxwi_dave> drc, cheers mate
<knome> slickymasterWork, at least you around?
<slickymasterWork> yes, I am
<slickymasterWork> why
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome> hah
<knome> "whyyyyy"
<knome> i was thinking setting up the contributor docs
<knome> what's your take on this:
<slickymasterWork> I saw you add it to the blueprint
<knome> should we add it to the same repository or create a new one?
<slickymasterWork> I'd go with a new one
<knome> right
<slickymasterWork> just a matter of organization, keeping things tidy 
<knome> i'll register a new project in lp for that then as well
<knome> xubuntu-contributor-docs ?
<knome> (obviously we can always change that..)
<slickymasterWork> yes, that's about what I'd call it
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll make some room on the kitchen table and start working on it next then
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, the "HowTo build docs locally"
<knome> the what? :)
<slickymasterWork> can I draft it right on the website or do you want me to do it in a pad?
<knome> sudo apt-get build-dep && make
<knome> works in wily...
<slickymasterWork> not that you silly you
<knome> :D
<knome> that's building docs... locally
<slickymasterWork> the tutorial I'm writting on how to do it
<slickymasterWork> it's an item in the blueprint
<knome> i'm wondering if we need a tutorial
<slickymasterWork> silly nilly
<knome> :D
<knome> am i missing something here?
<knome> the tutorial is this:
<knome> 1) sudo apt-get install bzr
<slickymasterWork> well flocculant mentioned it, the need for it, and I do see that there's a need
<knome> 2) bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs
<slickymasterWork> I know that knome 
<knome> 3) sudo apt-get build-dep xubuntu-docs
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> stop
<knome> :D
<knome> let's just add that to the contributor docs :P
<slickymasterWork> chances are that we may have a lot of potential contributors that just don't know
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> either way works for me
<knome> well i'm not opposed to a blog article either
<knome> i guess just write it up in the blog
<knome> unless you decide to go deeper in the docbook land
<slickymasterWork> oki doke
<slickymasterWork> one thing I remembered that afterwards will have to go on the contributor-docs is this https://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8, ochosi and I kind of settle that'd be the standard 
<knome> slickymasterWork, i guess that's debatable, but at least we can link to it :)
<slickymasterWork> of course it is, bit it's one standard at least
<knome> one con to the seprate repositories is that then it isn't as easy to share the same stylesheet
<knome> or at least we need to update both repositories with that when doing updates
<slickymasterWork> well, that focus mainly in the wiki-type of documentation
<knome> still
<knome> we want it to look the same as the end-user docs
<knome> with some changes, sure
<slickymasterWork> no argues there
<knome> but mostly the same
<slickymasterWork> but we have to take in consideration the weight of xfce in that particular solution/standard 
<knome> hmm?
<slickymasterWork> and sean adopt it to his appps
<slickymasterWork> hey so many 'ppp'
<knome> oh, you're talking about something else than me
<slickymasterWork> what are you talking about, then?
<knome> 18:58  knome: one con to the seprate repositories is that then it isn't as easy to share the same stylesheet
<knome> so basically, we have an established stylesheet (and a somewhat matching PDF style layer)
<knome> if we do a separate repository, it isn't as easy to use the exact same files for this
<slickymasterWork> oh, yes
<knome> or at least it means that if we make changes, we need to push them to two repositories
<slickymasterWork> yes, I agree with that reasoning 
<knome> also, if we want to mention the contributor docs from the docs startpage, the easiest way is that they exist in the same repository/package
<knome> of course, it would have its own subdirectory
<slickymasterWork> I wasn't at all go against it
<knome> and all of it would be separated fromt he main docs
<knome> so i guess i'll do that - at least for now
<knome> it's relatively easily splittable too
<slickymasterWork> I was just merely considering that we should somehow reference that standard in there some way
<knome> yeah, that's a totally different discussion :P
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<slickymasterWork> the goal is to also try to catch some contributors to the xfce documentation
<knome> can be
<slickymasterWork> on a different topic, I've been going through flocculant's -docs MP and I must say that other than a few minor wording changes it seems great
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> he has done a great, and thorough, work on it
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> my two cents are that we don't necessarily have to follow the style of the xfce docs
<knome> ochosi, no, i'm about to follow the style of xubuntu docs
<ochosi> the faenza icon theme is not an ideal choic there since its not maintained for yeras
<ochosi> (just as an example)
<knome> ssh, i need silence for working
<knome> i'm just breaking all the docs and i want to do it well
<slickymasterWork> hey ochosi 
 * ochosi sneaksout
<ochosi> hehe
<slickymasterWork> I wasn't implying we should follow that style ochosi, just saying that we should somehow link some sort of reference to yet another side/aspect of -docs contribution
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> sorry very slow internet on this train...
<slickymasterWork> :)
<ochosi> and yeah, to that i agree
<knome> bbl
<knome> ooookay, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial
<dkessel> bluesabre: i need some translator hints for catfish :p
<dkessel> strings 25 and 27: in which context are "other" and "any" used?
<dkessel> only those two string to do in german now :p
<ochosi> dkessel: checking...
<ochosi> dkessel: "other" is part of the file type filters
<knome> ochosi, now you can start writing documentation for contributors :P
<ochosi> as in: documents, folders, images, music, videos,..., other
<ochosi> knome: doc for contributors in what sense?
<knome> ochosi, like developer docs
<ochosi> dkessel: so "any" is the same in terms of the date range
<knome> ochosi, "how to contribute with artwork"
<dkessel> File filters... where do i have to click? :?
<ochosi> dkessel: those are in the sidebar
<dkessel> ah. strange enough, those are both translated in my version here... although on launchpad they aren't
<ochosi> dkessel: here's the context for "other" http://i.imgur.com/FGg6NhX.png
<dkessel> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> grep is your friend ;)
<ochosi> (in case you run into such a problem again)
<ochosi> or you can also check the "Located in.." hint on the launchpad translation site :D
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i  guess that'd be a nice effort, but why the "now"?
<knome> ochosi, i just set up the infrastructure for that, we now have a new docbook book in the -docs branch
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> well that would be a nice target for 16.04
<knome> ochosi, ultimately, we can ship that with all releases and have it in docs.xubuntu.org
<ochosi> then again, are you sure ppl will read docs like that?
<knome> no, but then again, i'm not going to put a huge effort on them
<knome> i mean, we should document our processes as we have done now
<knome> and if we can extend that to some of the technical issues, that's good
<knome> it's as much a guide to us as to new contributors
<knome> at least that's how i imagine it...
<ochosi> yeah, that makes sense
<knome> slickymaster, see above
<slickymaster> doing it already
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> knome, "The Xubuntu status tracker is where the development progress for the current development cycle is tracked and is located at."
<slickymaster> isn't there an extra 'is' between 'tracked and' 'located'
<slickymaster> what about "The Xubuntu status tracker is where the development progress for the current development cycle is tracked and located at
<knome> no, the link tag was faulty and the link didn't show up
<knome> i pushed a new revision now
<knome> happy that you are happy that we can actually work on this now ;P
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> are you referring to rev. 465
<knome> ^
<slickymaster> yeah, lag
<slickymaster> the sentence remains the same knome 
<knome> well, you can fix it yourself...
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> don't want to do it if you do not agree with it
<knome> no, i just wanted to set some initial content up
<slickymaster> branching it anyway
<knome> this is by no means final, or well-thought
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> it will also serves the purpose of seeing it in the browser
<slickymaster> * serve
<slickymaster> knome, the license file is a clone from the one in the -docs?
<knome> slickymaster, yes
<slickymaster> thanks, it saves the effort of reading it
<knome> heh
<slickymaster> another quetsion knome, are you thinking in having the common-infrastructure bzr centric?
<knome> no, but for anything that is common for several subtopics
<slickymaster> yes, agree
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-31
<phillw> Hi guys... Between my poor memory recalling information from master bodhi-zazen some extra work I also did with ubuntu beginners team, there is a couple of work arounds for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1511376
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1511376 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "install writes /etc/mtab as file, not symlink" [High,In progress]
<dkessel> fyi, new bug: 1511979
<ubottu> bug 1511979 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "second (non-admin) user cannot change profile picture" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511979
<dkessel> it would be great if someone could try and confirm
<dkessel> nvm, it seems to be a dupe
<slickymaster> knome, ochosi, I add Wily Werewolf documentation link to http://xubuntu.org/help/ in the documentation for currently supported Xubuntu releases section
<slickymaster> knome, http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=3574&action=edit
<slickymaster> care to comment, please
<knome> slickymaster, why the long install command instead of build-dep?
<slickymaster> trying to make it simple as possible knome 
<slickymaster> btw did you saw my other ping?
<knome> slickymaster, i did, but why not ordered by release date?
<slickymaster> I thought the ordering was by support date
<knome> how is "sudo apt-get install coreutils debhelper docbook-xml docbook-xsl fonts-droid fop gnome-doc-utils xsltproc" simpler than "sudo apt-get build-dep xubuntu-docs" ?
<knome> i mean,
<slickymaster> fell free to change it
<knome> the latter example provides some information on how the list of the packages can be fetched for other packages too
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> did changes to the post, feel free to check them out
<slickymaster> is the ordering done release date instead?
<slickymaster> + by
<slickymaster> can I take over the lock now, knome?
<knome> i don't have it, WP is just lagging
<slickymaster> there is a typo
<knome> maybe
<knome> i just came from sauna
<knome> anyway, i think ordering by release is logical
<slickymaster> ok, corrected the typo
<slickymaster> ready to hit publish
<slickymaster> is ok with you, now?
<slickymaster> + it
<knome> no
<knome> there's a formatting mistake
<knome> check http://xubuntu.org/?p=3574&preview=true
<knome> apparently it's visible in the admin too
<knome> in the fop command
<slickymaster> not seeing it
<knome> well release the lock
<knome> and i'll fix it
<slickymaster> released
<knome> sigh:D
<knome> oh
<knome> hah
<knome> nvm
<slickymaster> what?
<knome> i thought you released == published
<knome> i'm thinking the following:
<knome> add a short paragraph at the end
<slickymaster> lol, no just the lock
<knome> saying something like
<knome> - now you have the documentation
<knome> - you also have the sources, and you can edit them and suggest improvements on the docs
<knome> - here's where you can read more about contributing to the docs
<slickymaster> ok, will do it after dinner. Little one is already naging if we're not having one today :P
<knome> hahah
<knome> hf and bon appetit
<slickymaster> http://xubuntu.org/help/ is fixed now
<knome> mhm
<slickymaster> ythanks
<knome> ttyl
<slickymaster> hf
<knome> Unit193, welcome back to the headful club.
<ochosi> yeah, congrats
<bluesabre> wait, not the headless norseman?
<bluesabre> or headless server?
<bluesabre> cmon man
<ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> i thought it'd be nice to factor out distro-specific icons from elementary-xfce
<ochosi> so we could just replace those few relevant ones in xubuntu-artwork
<knome> yes please
<ochosi> i could keep the icons we need in a separate git repo
<ochosi> or i could push them directly to xubuntu-artwork and we replace them when installing the package
<bluesabre> sounds reasonable
<bluesabre> maybe have the distro icons in the repo, and let distributor-logo be a symlink to one of those
<ochosi> distributor-logo is just one of them
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> but yeah, symlinks would be another (good) way
<ochosi> there's at least ubiquity and usb-creator
<ochosi> but i think also some xfdesktop menu icon
<bluesabre> probably many many others
<ochosi> i hope not too many others though
<ochosi> thing is, for now i don't really have a generic distributor icon etc
<bluesabre> ochosi: why not something xfce-ish?
<bluesabre> like a nice version of the xfce mouse
<bluesabre> or its head
<bluesabre> on a blue circle
<ochosi> wait, i thought that's what the xubuntu logo..
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i guess i could try to pull some distro logos and put them in the places folder and then add a symlink
<ochosi> that's definitely a good idea
<ochosi> in terms of ubiquity i'm not sure yet what's the best idea there
<bluesabre> the ubiquity logo is generic enough
<bluesabre> elementary-xfce is blue
<ochosi> yeah, but i re-did that last night
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> will need to take a look then :)
<slickymaster> knome, did you want that article in the FAQs or in the Articles section?
<ochosi> bluesabre: haven't pushed it yet ;)
<knome> slickymaster, it's not really a FAQ for end-users, so i would vote against FAQ
<knome> slickymaster, as i think we discussed back then...
<slickymaster> iirc back then I thought you mentioned something about the FAQs :P
<knome> so there was a blog post on the planet about UOS with the title "Is your team ready for UOS?" and that made me think whether we wanted *any* participation there?
<knome> slickymaster, well as i think i said then, we can create another category
<slickymaster> imo, Articles is a perfectly suitable venue for it, knome 
<knome> wfm
<knome> and obviously we can fix that later
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> published
#xubuntu-devel 2015-11-01
<dkessel> so thunar still randomly crashes on file renames.... meh
<dkessel> i thought that might have been fixed in the meantime
<bluesabre> dkessel: yeah, its better than it was, but still often enough to be a headache
<dkessel> bluesabre: would it not be possible to install some kind of error handler to help pin down the cause of this?
<bluesabre> dkessel: potentially one could run thunar with valgrind to try to find it, but since it doesn't happen everytime, could be a pain to figure it out
<dkessel> bluesabre: oh, i can reproduce it fairly often
<dkessel> it is just that i haven't been renaming folders often lately, which is why it hasn't happened during the last weeks
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> install valgrind and run thunar with it.  Get it to crash and save the output to a file with the bug report, might help
<dkessel> ok, will try
<Unit193> bluesabre: Maybe more gdb?
<Unit193> Or install -dbg and let apport do it?
<bluesabre> Unit193: potentially
<bluesabre> gdb is a pain for all though
<bluesabre> :D
<dkessel> Unit193: i got the -dbg package, but apport doesn't detect the end of the child process as crash
<dkessel> mhh i am getting this while copying/files sometimes: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13071572/
<dkessel> also, something seems to be with thumbnailing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13071670/
<dkessel> i don't know if any of these could sometimes cause the child process to crash/end
<dkessel> oh, now i got it
<dkessel> i got a trace in the moment of the crash. created bug 1512120
<ubottu> bug 1512120 in thunar (Ubuntu) "crashes on file renaming" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512120
<knome> dkessel, fwiw, duplicating the app name in the bug title isn't unwelcome
<dkessel> knome: oh, ok in fact i believed it might be. np, fixing that
<knome> it helps when it's there when linking to it externally (package/app name isn't always visible)
<dkessel> ok i see.
<knome> (including the status tracker... :P)
<knome> np, continue
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> dkessel: cool, that looks like a good indicator of where the issue might be starting :)
<bluesabre> suppose I'll start learning thunar's codebase now
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre sets up xenial dev env and goes shopping
<bluesabre> bbabl
<dkessel> bluesabre: note that i my stack traces are from wily though. but it guess there should be no difference yet
<bluesabre> dkessel: np, its been crashing since at least vivid
<dkessel> alright. happy shopping
<flocculant> oh boo - hating bzr
<Unit193> That's usual, anything specific?
<flocculant> merged the xubuntu-docs stuff cos of the changes there
<flocculant> now got a bzr conflict with desktop-guide/libs/xubuntu.ent
<knome> :Ã
<knome> flocculant, sorry, i needed to poke it..
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> knome: so how can I deal with this then? 
<knome> Unit193, krytarik: there's some work for you in the docs branch, the translation process isn't completely supporting two docbook sets yet
<knome> xubuntu.ent should not exist any more...
<knome> enduser doc related stuff should be in xubuntu-docs.ent
<knome> in the same directory
<knome> basically bzr expects you to get rid of all the .THIS .THAT .OTHER and whatever files
<flocculant> still conflicts apparently
<flocculant> can't be bothered to fight this 
<krytarik> knome: Is this the proper time for me to refer to '- contributor-docs/Makefile: "ln -s ../libs-common ../build/contributor-docs/libs-common" seems unnecessary', first? :P
<Unit193> http://xkcd.org/1597/ mostly applies here.
<flocculant> funnily enough ... 
<knome> krytarik, how is it?
<knome> flocculant, if it's just about getting your MP rebased with the new stuff, don't bother
<knome> flocculant, we'll handle that
<flocculant> oh my lord
<flocculant> still got problems :|
<knome> flocculant, did you run "bzr resolve" ?
<flocculant> why would I do that? 
<knome> flocculant, that checks if you have resolved the stuff in question
<flocculant> you might know all these commands - but I don't ;)
<knome> heh, sure
<knome> that's why i ask
<flocculant> knome: I grabbed anew - then copied my local stuff in to the new copy 
<knome> flocculant, mhm
<flocculant> bzr resolve
<flocculant> All conflicts resolved.
<flocculant> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.
<flocculant> how can that be - if I *just* grabbed it 
<knome> flocculant, if you grabbed the new stuff, and then applied yours, they can be diverged because you have files that the new branch doesn't
<flocculant> knome: I copied my changes into the new branch - not added anything that's not there, unless you removed doc pages
<flocculant> knome: any reason not to delete branch lp:~flocculant/xubuntu-... 
<flocculant> and push it again? 
<flocculant> drc> [14:37:50] All I really care about is "what do they want me to put in the "hardware profile" of the test cases"  If Dell 1420n is enough, I'm good. 
<flocculant> I'm happy with whatever you want to put there - I'm not bothered about all that gist stuff at all 
<knome> flocculant, you can just push it again :)
<flocculant> no I can't 
<flocculant> I get errors
<Unit193> --overwrite
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks - hopefully that got it :D
<Unit193> That or it broke everything. :D
<knome> flocculant, so was this about the changes you did?
<knome> flocculant, or something new?
<flocculant> knome: I appear to have pushed something now ;)
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> all manner of things happening in https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/274703
<flocculant> none of which I actually did :D
<flocculant> Diff against target: 	182719 lines (+33977/-27848) (has conflicts) 
<Unit193> :D
<flocculant> I give up - losing interest with this rapidly :p
<knome> rrright...
<knome> i'll figure it out
<knome> just don't touch it again
<knome> :P
<flocculant> knome: all that I have done is bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs, changed the dozen or so files I changed before, commited it, tried to push it - and it threw a fit then --overwrite appeared to push it ok
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> no wonder people start to get involved and then give up 
<knome> the reason why you see the huge diff is that you have now merged main into your branch
<knome> (main did have a lot of changes)
<flocculant> right
<knome> so you are seeing both your changes, and mine
<flocculant> should have just deleted my branch and started again
<knome> which i guess i could have committed slightly more cleanly
<knome> (but only slightly)
<knome> i'll take a spot on the dining table and figure it out
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> so if you did stuff with the .ent file(s) and I had added something to one here I guess that's all gone now
<knome> i'll make sure it gets all in.
<knome> don't worry
<flocculant> anyway - I'm off, I only turned the machine to check a few things, saw slickymaster's comments fixed those and commented where I didn't 
<flocculant> then it all went wrong ... 
<knome> np
<flocculant> cya tomorrow :)
<knome> hf
<flocculant> sleep I want - 3 nights of 3 or 4 am's 
<flocculant> :D
<knome> huh
<knome> good nighty then ;)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 13 updates, showing the latest 3
<knome> flocculant, ok done; see https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/276351 for the "actual" diff against the xenial branch
<knome> wut?
<knome> what was my quit message?
<knome> because i think i just chrashed irssi...
<krytarik> knome: "* knome has quit (Remote host closed the connection)"
 * knome facepalms
<knome> totally inaccurate
<knome> i typed a /command and BOOM
<krytarik> knome: Also, please refer to  http://paste.openstack.org/show/YAxHwIMt52LGwcrFVmoP/  reg. the changes to 'desktop-guide/libs/xubuntu.ent' previously made by flocculant.
<knome> hmm
<knome> i wonder why launchpad totally forgot about that
<knome> i tried to find the previous commit by him, but no
<knome> maybe it was the --overwrite...
<krytarik> Yep.
<krytarik> Like he said, that killed it.
<knome> mhm
<knome> stupid.
<knome> ok, pushed
<knome> well, pushing
<knome> done
<knome> krytarik, so... as i said before
<knome> there is some work with the docs scripts
<knome> i can help with that too
<knome> one thing we should probably reconsider is the structure on how the docs are built
<knome> now the startpage is on the root directory, language directories for docs directly below it
<knome> if we get new contributor docs, wouldn't it make sense to put each of them under their own subdir
<knome> that would help with some of the linking stuff too
<krytarik> knome: Yeah, I guess that'd be a workable solution.
<krytarik> knome: Btw, these are the other ones :P -
<krytarik> - Release notes on website and wiki: "LibreOffice Calc and Writer and [âare] now included."
<krytarik> - http://xubuntu.org/news/building-xubuntu-documentation-package-locally/:
<krytarik>   'fonts-droid' added in Wily too, but installed in Xubuntu by default
<krytarik> - http://xubuntu.org/help/: "Wily Werewolf 15.10" is split in two links
<knome> heh
<knome> this is why you shouldn't let others update the website ;)
<krytarik> :D
<knome> say
<knome> should the scripts always require a template
<knome> or should we fall back to desktop-guide?
<krytarik> For clarity, I guess I'd prefer specifying it.
<knome> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-31
<akxwi-dave> well thats todays 64bit iso fail to install
<slickymasterWork> same here akxwi-dave 
<slickymasterWork> in VB, not in hardware
<akxwi-dave> just trying the 32 bit now as well..
<akxwi-dave> bug 1637985 for teh 64
<ubottu> bug 1637985 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install Fail - Attempt to configure apt to install additional packages from CD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637985
<slickymasterWork> that's the one
<slickymasterWork> it's now confirmed
<akxwi-dave> cheers
<slickymasterWork> np
<akxwi-dave> back in a bit.. food is calling
<slickymasterWork> enjoy akxwi-dave Â´
<akxwi-dave> 32 fails as well
<slickymasterWork> don't forget to add the tag to the bug report akxwi-dave 
<akxwi-dave> done.. :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: hardware or virtual?
<akxwi-dave> vbox
<akxwi-dave> not sure about slickymaster though
<flocculant> ta - with kvm - get nothing at all
<akxwi-dave> gunna give it a bash on the testing lappy when home, just incase its a virtual thing
 * flocculant is doing hardware round about now 
<flocculant> biab
<flocculant> or not - stupid usb creator
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: yup - fails on hardware
<akxwi-dave> ta
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, that was also on vbox 
<flocculant> bluesabre: there's been discussion in -desktop today that might have some bearing on the issues we got at the end of yak around lightdm 
<flocculant> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/10/31/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t15:45 and on
#xubuntu-devel 2016-11-01
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks, looks like we're still not 100% there
<flocculant> bluesabre: I thought so - just a heads up :)
<knome> pleia2, once you have time, plz g+/fb http://xubuntu.org/news/presenting-xubuntu-status-tracker/
<bluesabre> flocculant, made some PPA updates for zesty, got some more work to do which I hope to get to tonight
<flocculant> thanks :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sorry I didn't get to testing before you released.
<bluesabre> Unit193, no problem, it was confirmed working
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> lunchtime methinks
<bluesabre> wife sick today, took the day off
<flocculant> oh dear :(
<Unit193> Nice, now whisker will build again.
<Unit193> flocculant: So, what's up with the GTK3 ppa?
<flocculant> Unit193: not sure what the crack is - and zesty iso's are knackered till rebuilt, so can't try with a vanilla install
<flocculant> but - here if I use the ppa and upgrade everything it kills the panel on reboot
<flocculant> I can then rebuild the panel, except terminal refuses to run from panel launcher
<flocculant> then on reboot - panel lost again
<Unit193> Some of that sounds like xfconf fun, but that's not even in the PPA any longer.
<flocculant> Unit193: I'll check tomorrow at some point once we've a good iso to work from
<Unit193> Sure.  Reminds me, slick poked about core..
<flocculant> always the possibility it's this install obviously - it's been been mucked about with since ~ yakkety beta1 or 2 time
<flocculant> Unit193: yea saw that poke :p btw I did a testcase based on the actual thing for it
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> I presume all worked as suual.
<flocculant> it did at the time
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> with the same bug we saw before it did 
<Unit193> Mini isn't using the new installer, right?
<flocculant> no idea - not been near mini.iso for over 6 months
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<Unit193> flocculant: Mass plugin update incoming...
<flocculant> I saw the explosion all over thunderbird earlier ... 
<flocculant> didn't read them - just marked the whole lot as read :D
<Unit193> Yeah, as I said, someone in Xfce land doesn't like me. :P
<flocculant> I did wonder why the comment - then just made some stuff up in my head ... 'oh yea, that'll do it' :p
<Unit193> Because Sean is doing things upstream means I get all of 'em.
<flocculant> re those plugins and gtk3 - before I purged them - they did (at least the 6 or so I had) seem ok 
<Unit193> (Gah, 18 messages now..)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I think that's them all :D
<flocculant> I guess by the time they're all in ppa - there will be a good iso - I'll recheck at that point
<Unit193> I pushed them to my staging PPA, but will copy over after successful build without testing, they've been tested. :P
<ochosi> Unit193: hmm, any plans regarding xfconf 4.12.1?
<ochosi> (i mean i have it here now locally, so just as a general question, not a request ;))
<Unit193> ochosi: No, it breaks stuff and is evil.  It killed my pet ghost.
<ochosi> seriously?
<Unit193> ochosi: I read that wrong, neeeeevermind. :D
<ochosi> i thought it just adds one more api call
<ochosi> errm, one more type
<ochosi> gdkrgba
<Unit193> Right, any reason I should care rather than having it trickle through Debian first?
<ochosi> nope, that'd be ok as well
<Unit193> (Wasn't trying to be a jerk, just asking.)  OK, I think that's been poked at in pkg-xfce SVN, so should land soon.  If it doesn't, you can poke me and tell me to hurry up.
<ochosi> k, awesome, thanks!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
 * genii twitches
<Unit193> genii: Twitchy, too much coffee?
<Unit193> flocculant: Sooo, what's the issue with the ISOs? :3
<flocculant> fixed afaik - can't be arsed to rebuild and wait
<flocculant> and resting from running about :p
<Unit193> Sure, just was wondering to look for in the newly built ISOs.  No big deal.
<flocculant> Unit193: oic 
<flocculant> hang on
<genii> Unit193: Also tempted to test the amd64 iso
<flocculant> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637985
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1637985 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "zesty install fails - "An attempt to configure apt to install additional packages from the CD failed."" [Critical,Fix committed]
<flocculant> Unit193 that
<Unit193> Ah.
<Unit193> Danke.
<flocculant> genii: - currently falls over half way through installing
<flocculant> should be ok when they rebuild
 * flocculant notes time is getting close to Rush time and wanders off for the day
<Unit193> Erm, well I'm an idiot.  Just noticed what genii twitched at.
<Unit193> ochosi: What's the status of tumbler?
<ochosi> Unit193: you mean the gdbus port?
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> i haven't tested it tbh
<ochosi> and i already got myself into too many projects by "just taking a look"
<ochosi> you've tested it?
<Unit193> I was wondering more about release/merge to master/etc.  Yeah I've been running it for quite some time now.  Not cranky.
<ochosi> yeah, merging it to master means taking some responsibility for it
<Unit193> Only thing I can think of, if you wget a video with thunar open, it'll spam the CPU a tad.
<ochosi> i thought "notifyd looks ok, i could merge that"
<Unit193> :D
<ochosi> boom, i had to do a lot of fixes to get it really working
<ochosi> ouch, not fun
<Unit193> Then they ask for features too.
<ochosi> and that's not the case with the the current glib-dbus version?
<knome> and your credit card number.
<knome> and a ring.
<knome> and some children.
<Unit193> ochosi: No idea anymore tbh, likely is.
<ochosi> seems like a bit of a corner case, that's why i'm asking
<Unit193> Yey!  Now the GTK3 tracking page is happier.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-11-02
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dict 0.7.99 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dict-0-7-99-released-tp48546.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<bluesabre> daily builds of parole and xfce4-power-manager should now be resolved
<bluesabre> a new sgt-launcher is on its way to https://code.launchpad.net/~sgt-launcher/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<bluesabre> a new mugshot is on its way to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice.  Did you ever look into upstreaming a fix for whiskermenu?  FWIW, -panel and -settings had micro releases that could likely be merged from Debian.
<Unit193> (Oh, and -dict done.)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-genmon-plugin 3.99.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-genmon-plugin-3-99-0-released-tp48548.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
<flocculant> Unit193 bluesabre and akxwi-dave > http://paste.ubuntu.com/23416779/
<flocculant> gtk3 stuff in ppa is broken somewhere
<Unit193> I like the last step.
<flocculant> although I'd rather it wasn't broken - I'm glad I could reproduce on a clean install 
<flocculant> Unit193: I thought you might :p
<Unit193> Right, will get a bootstrap a VM later and poke at it.
<flocculant> bluesabre: given I've got time to actually do specific things - file manager - if we did move - which do you *think* is likely to be the one we'd move to? I'll just move to using one of the others - just which one :)
<flocculant> Unit193: ack
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> Unit193, think I missed the whiskermenu issue
<knome> pleia2, did you get my ping about fb/g+?
<pleia2> yes but I forgot already, I'll do the thing
<knome> thanks
<knome> and no worries
<knome> i tried to get some ideas for our AUA on twitter, but everybody seemed to interpret the question as "which feature should we implement" rather than "ask us about food and stuffz!"
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> ok, I did the things
 * knome bows
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> hello sean
<bluesabre> hi pasi
<knome> what's up?
<bluesabre> not much right now, probably doing some releases tonight and maybe checking out flocculant's reported issues
<knome> mhm
#xubuntu-devel 2016-11-03
<bluesabre> flocculant, pcmanfm or nemo would probably be what I would consider, but both have annoying usability issues
<Unit193> bluesabre: Spacefm! :P
<Unit193> Did you get all the pings?
<bluesabre> Unit193, which whisker fix?
<Unit193> Oh, the simple gdmflexi â dm-tool thing.
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> yeah, should do that
<bluesabre> Unit193, and some things to merge from debian, and flocculant's gtk3 woes
<Unit193> I've not been able to install zesty yet or I'd have poked at the latter. :/
<bluesabre> I'll see what all I can get to tonight :)
<Unit193> Yeeeeah, but at least I'll get to whatever GTK3 stuff you release! :P
<Unit193> ...Unless it involves effort. :3
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> actually pretty tired now, so will pick up these things early in the morning
<Unit193> G'night.
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll try and narrow this gtk3 thing down a bit later today rather than just some vague all the gtk3 things
<bluesabre> xfce4-settings and xfce4-panel uploaded
<bluesabre> flocculant, akxwi-dave, can you confirm if the mugshot in the staging ppa pulls everything it needs for the camera to work out of the box?
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre: will check when i get home and let you know..
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave, thanks
<bluesabre> if it does, I'll upload it tonight to ubuntu and we'll mark an item off of the dev bp :)
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<RFleming> Morning
<RFleming> Is the implementation of xfce4-topmenu-plugin deemed complete in 16.04?
<flocculant> bluesabre: took a logout but after that .face is http://imgur.com/kImgyFV
<flocculant> missed the black vortex in the very centre there :(
<flocculant> must be an ellipsicircle 
<flocculant> it installed gstreamer1.0-tools
<flocculant> only
<flocculant> bluesabre: been adding info to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-gtk3 
<akxwi-dave> http://imgur.com/a/v1CBj
<akxwi-dave> I did have a restart, but that was due to nvidia..
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre:  for you that is
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: not sure that's as cool as the vortexing mugshot :p
<akxwi-dave> deffo not.. it was that or a real pic of me
<flocculant> well - there's been 2 screenies from mugshot in here from me - the vortex and a cup of tea :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-11-04
<bluesabre> sgt-launcher 0.1 released, https://launchpad.net/sgt-launcher/0.1/0.1 :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks for the gtk3 investigation, will be digging into that more this weekend
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-13-0-released-tp48552.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> productive night
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> night everyone
<Unit193> Cool, g'nighty.
<nicolaEdison> Night
<flocculant> bluesabre: np
<akxwi-dave> just a note for anyone testing todays ISO's  had "at-spi-bus-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in strlen()"crash  on the live session and also on first boot after install of the 64bit version. if anyone else gets it please let me know..  after a reboot of installed not getting any more.
<flocculant>  akxwi-dave yea I've had that - me too'd an existing bug - also let the system report one - that's marked private 
<flocculant> started dayish ago
<flocculant> bug 1638833
<ubottu> bug 1638833 in at-spi2-core (Ubuntu) "at-spi-bus-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in strlen()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638833
<akxwi-dave> cheers  i could only find  earlier version s that weren't the strlen()  error.
<akxwi-dave> wierldymilamber
<akxwi-dave> oops last bit wrong chat.. :-)
<akxwi-dave> Unless you need to know the Tsurani call Pug.. 
<flocculant> I know that :p
<Unit193> I'm presuming we don't care about UOS, as usual?
<knome> ubuntu folks have yet to convince us we have any benefits in scheduling our meetings at the same time as they do
<knome> (i'm not bitter or anything like that, i'm just indifferent)
<knome> if people want to schedule UOS sessions - go for it
<Unit193> IOW, "correct"
<knome> in that direction
<Unit193> $stuff uploaded to Debian.
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i agree. i'm indifferent too
<Unit193> Then you don't get to see my pretty face. ;(
<ochosi> Unit193: nice. i like $stuff
<knome> Unit193, we already saw it in a photo in a flickr stream
<ochosi> wat?? youre at uos?
<Unit193> knome: Yeeeeah. :'(
<Unit193> Sorry about your eyes.
<knome> that happens.
<ochosi> wowza, when?
<knome> around OLF
<pleia2> <3 Unit193 
<knome> o hai pleia2 :)
<pleia2> ono
<knome> yoko
<Unit193> :3
#xubuntu-devel 2016-11-05
<flocculant> what's this then?
<flocculant> some surprise that canonical try and care 2 times a year?
<flocculant> I'd be surprised at 3 tries ... 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r629 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<flocculant> ochosi: seems to be icon missing from pavucontrol http://i.imgur.com/mS7VCTn.png
<Unit193> Welp, zesty still doesn't like me.  Fun times.
<Unit193> bluesabre: There?
<bluesabre> Unit193, here
<Unit193> Sweet.  How hard are we pushing GTK3 this cycle?
<bluesabre> I'd recommend that plugins get pushed unless they depend on core xfce, and things in core are case-by-case depending on our perceived stability
<bluesabre> so plugins and exo I'd agree to right now
<bluesabre> xfce4-settings I would not
<bluesabre> notifyd, probably
<bluesabre> ochosi might also have good input here, being more upstream than myself lately
<Unit193> Good, had hoped you wouldn't with -settings, -notifyd has already been in, going to push -appfinder now, etc.
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<bluesabre> anything specific, feel free to make a judgment or ask if unsure
<Unit193> Not sure how well the GTK3 taskmanager is, so holding off.  Been holding off on -terminal, but should just sync it.
<bluesabre> I'll take the heat for anything I approve :D
<Unit193> Well, tech lead, so figured it'd be good. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> I'm ignoring any experimental goodies and plugins too.
<bluesabre> Sounds reasonable to me
<Unit193> Poke me if you want anything, as always. :D
<bluesabre> Sure thing
<Unit193> xfce4-datetime-plugin 0.7.0-1ubuntu1, xfce4-appfinder 4.12.0-2ubuntu2, xfce4-terminal 0.8.1-1, xfce4-diskperf-plugin 2.6.0-0ubuntu1, xfce4-mpc-plugin 0.5.0-0ubuntu1, xfce4-wavelan-plugin 0.6.0-0ubuntu1, xfce4-netload-plugin 1.3.0-0ubuntu1, xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin 0.5.0-0ubuntu1 uploaded/sync'd.
<ochosi> flocculant: i think that's not our, but clementine's fault for not installing a 16px icon variant in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/*
<Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
<ochosi> hey Unit193 
<ochosi> regarding Gtk3, i think the panel won't be really ready
<ochosi> that's my guess currently
<Unit193> We're not pushing that yet either.
<ochosi> taskman should be fine, but i can also look into that one again and drop gtk2 and do a release
<ochosi> but it's not really a top prio atm
<ochosi> for me at least
<Unit193> That might be nice, didn't because not sure how good a shape it's in.
<ochosi> well it's a pre gtk3.20 port, so i would presume there will at least be new deprecation warnings
<Unit193> Yeeeeah.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> but maybe breakage too
<ochosi> who knows
<ochosi> with notifyd i'll do another release soonish
<ochosi> and clipman too
<ochosi> clipman should be fine after the first bugfix release
<ochosi> aka 1.4.1
<Unit193> Welp, it's already in. :D
<Unit193> !info xfce4-clipman-plugin zesty
<ubottu> xfce4-clipman-plugin (source: xfce4-clipman-plugin): clipboard history plugin for Xfce panel. In component universe, is optional. Version 2:1.4.0-1 (zesty), package size 23 kB, installed size 83 kB
<ochosi> it's not *that* bad ;)
<ochosi> but the size of the menu is small if you put the panel at the bottom of the screen
<ochosi> weirdly this only happens with a gtk2 panel
<Unit193> I don't remember if I sync'd that or autosync.
<Unit193> I've been busy today with packages.
<ochosi> i'll review a patch that someone posted on bugzilla now
<ochosi> if it fixes the problem i might look into one or two more bugs and then do the release
<ochosi> humm, crap, so with the gtk3 panel it stil works :)
<knome> wait, you want to release something that DOESN'T work?
<ochosi> humm, release what?
<knome> nvm :P
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - thanks - wasn't sure what was up there :)
<ochosi> in theory we can add an icon for it in elementary-xfce and fix it that way
<ochosi> but this will only work with this one icon theme then
<Unit193> Yeah we need to split those out too...
<ochosi> i'd recommend reporting a bug against clementine
<ochosi> k, so the most annoying 1.4.0 clipman bug is fixed in master now
<ochosi> Unit193: in case you wanna pick up the patch early on ^
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - I'd agree seems pointless us doing anything, not sure I'll bother reporting anything to upstream - done that in the past ... 
<ochosi> oh ok
<flocculant> as long as it's not a bug for us - which was why I mentioned it :)
<Unit193> ochosi: We're in sync with Debian, no point pulling early.
<ochosi> k, fixed the bugs i wanted for clipman
<ochosi> hope i'll get to doing some releases (clipman, notifyd) soon
<ochosi> night everyone
<Unit193> G'nighty.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-11-06
<bluesabre> evening everyone
<Unit193> Howdy.
<ochosi> evening everyone
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> how're thingsÃ
<ochosi> ?
<flocculant> pretty good thanks - week off :)
<ochosi> oh that sounds nice
<ochosi> would love to have that :)
<flocculant> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-30
<ninetls> ochosi: I saw 2 releases yesterday and thought "maybe it's time to release sn-plugin too?"
<ochosi> crap, i lost the link to the pad i created
<ochosi> could someone please re-paste it here?
<ochosi> (or do i really have to go to the meeting logs)
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/PyIIYsyIfn
<ochosi> thanks
<knome> /lastlog pad.ubuntu
<ochosi> stupid ff not remember stuff
<knome> you are using irssi, right? :P
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> bluesabre: don't forget to add your input to the pad
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-31
<bluesabre> ochosi: I don't think I have any additional changes to what is currently there
<HeadlessHorseman> We want that strange git snapshot of xfwm there still?
<flocculant> special halloween usecase I assume
<HeadlessHorseman> I remembered we have a 'sane' ppa too that they can copy over whatever, so uploaded.  -notifyd too.
<flocculant> the gtk3 ppa no longer has a release file
<flocculant> I'm informed
<HeadlessHorseman> My instructions were to copy/move it over to experimental then delete it.  I've just now finished that.
<flocculant> oh right - so gtk3 is now dead?
<flocculant> ppa that is - not all of gtk3 ever
<flocculant> :P
<HeadlessHorseman> xfce4-gtk3 is dead and gone.
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> and experimental has no artful nor bionic
<HeadlessHorseman> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+packages should, but some packages are waiting to be built.
<flocculant> oh hang on - I'm a doofus 
<flocculant> was looking at Sean's experimental :p
<flocculant> and staging is expected to currently be empty?
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume that qa can now push people to artful + the 2 (qa) ppa's ?
<HeadlessHorseman> ..Yes?
<flocculant> :)
<HeadlessHorseman> ochosi: I'd guess that was xfce4-gtk3 as I was migrating to exp?
<ochosi> HeadlessHorseman: bluesabre and Unit193 are taking care of the PPAs atm
<HeadlessHorseman> Yes I'm aware I am. :P
<ochosi> k :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-11-01
<flocculant> :D
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<Unit193> flocculant: Always knew he liked you better.
<akxwi-dave> flocc
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  just give me the nod when we can move to AA+ppa's  new setup ready and waiting for it..
<flocculant> Unit193: what can I say ...
<flocculant> ochosi: hi :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ack - will do, as far as I'm aware they're all up now - mostly just need to be sure I can ping lists
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: ta
<Unit193> -<!ENTITY devel-codename 'zesty' >
<Unit193> +<!ENTITY devel-codename 'b' >
#xubuntu-devel 2017-11-02
<knome> Unit193, yes.
<ali1234> cyphermox: do you have 5 minutes to answer a couple of questions about lp:mtp? and what's a good channel to discuss it?
<ali1234> (asking cos you seem to have the most branches of it)
<cyphermox> ali1234: yes, because I mostly was the only person to write it
#xubuntu-devel 2017-11-03
<Unit193> bluesabre: xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin still isn't in our packageset... :/
<Unit193> New version is in ~/ :P
<Unit193> ninetls: (wrapper-2.0:9370): libstatusnotifier-CRITICAL **: sn_item_invalidate: assertion 'item->properties_proxy != NULL' failed  that seems interesting, given I don't get an icon.
<ninetls> Unit193: which app?
<Unit193> ninetls: veracrypt+indicator patch.
<ninetls> Unit193: always reproducible?
<Unit193> Not sure about the error message, but missing icon is.  0.2.0 and 0.2.1, artful both
<ninetls> Unit193: what patch?
<Unit193> ninetls: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/debian-edu/pkg-team/veracrypt.git/tree/debian/patches/003-indicator-support.diff
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r642 * etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel/default.xml:... (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Unit193: also pushed changes for the seed... that might result in it sn showing up in the packageset later
<bluesabre> will upload meta and settings tonight :)
<Unit193> :3
<ninetls> Unit193: meh
<ninetls> it's harder to build with this patch
<ninetls> Unit193: don't see this message
<ninetls> do you see the icon in the plugin?
<ninetls> I mean button without image
<Unit193> Yeah, area is there, just no icon.
<Unit193> ninetls: I'll be around for more poking in a few hours.
<ninetls> maybe that means there are no icon with this name in systemd?
<ninetls> lol
<ninetls> system*
<ninetls> :>
<Unit193> Well no, works in ind-app. :3
<ninetls> it uses icon named 'veracrypt-indicator'
<ninetls> do you have it?
<Unit193> ninetls: Oh hi.  No.
<ninetls> Unit193: wat -_-
<Unit193> You asked about the icon, -indicator, I don't have it.  I remember messing around with that a bit, not in the patch but on the filesystem.  Odd results, IIRC.
<ninetls> so I don't know how indicator-plugin can display the icon when you don't even have it
<Unit193> I don't know either, but if I understand correctly the mate one does too.  So I guess you'll declare this NOTMYPROBLEM. :D
<ninetls> Unit193: WONTFIX NOTABUG NOTMYPROBLEM IWILLBETHEGUYWHOWILLDEVELOPGTK
<Unit193> ninetls: Understandable, only voiced it because the other one displayed it correctly and sn-plug didn't.  I should fix that. :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-11-04
<flocculant> sounds like a sep
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r643 Fix xml validation and release 18.04.0 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Since you're pushing that, I'm going to presume you want me to sync from exp. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: go for it :)
<Unit193> Already did.
<bluesabre> Awesome. :D
<bluesabre> And thanks for updating the PPAs
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, fonts.
<knome> foooooonts.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-11-05
<aaronfranke> Hello xubuntu-devel IRC members, I would still like to propose something. For the purpose of making it easier for Windows, Mint Cinnamon, Lubuntu, and other users to transition to Xubuntu, I propose changing the default location of the panel to the bottom of the screen. People who prefer it at the top of the screen can simply move it back there. 
<aaronfranke> The default location mostly affects new users, so it should cater to them first. I'm sure there are also non-newbies who prefer the bottom of the screen.  I have created a poll to see what everyone's opinions are: http://www.strawpoll.me/14263444 There are options for top, bottom, side, or don't care. All are useful results, I encourage you to vote. This link was previously only sent to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, but I
<aaronfranke> I don't expect that the poll results will be the final decision, but it will probably help decide where the panel's default location should be. I'm also not sure if polls are allowed in the IRC, so I apologize if they're not. Thanks for your consideration, Aaron Franke, a Xubuntu user
<Unit193> The obvious response is "And the people who prefer to put it on the bottom can".  Your second message was cut off at 'xubuntu-devel mailing list, but'
<aaronfranke> "This link was previously only sent to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, but I'm posting it here too."
<aaronfranke> The default location mostly affects new users, so it should cater to them first.
<Unit193> Ah, there we go.
<Unit193> I'm not entirely sure I agree with that statement, but eh.  Anyway, of course I'm not the sole decider.
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: Hi!  So I hear you're doing the Indicator stuff this cycle, are we flipping over to ayatana ones or sticking with Ubuntu ones?  I fixed xfce4-indicator-plugin in Debian such that the new version compiles, but in order to do that in Debian it needed ayatana, not sure what we'd need in a merge.
<Unit193> Also: Our version uses crappy systemd calls to start indicators, whereas the much nicer Debian ones have xdg autostart files.
<aaronfranke> I will be exiting this IRC now, but I hope y'all will consider what I posted above.
<flexiondotorg> There is no requirement to switch to Ayatana Indicators project, it's your choice if you'd like too :-) 
<flexiondotorg> Unit193: ^
<flocculant> morning
<bluesabre> Somebody should have told aaronfranke about xfpanel-switch
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, fonts.
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: ..Right, was just trying to see what the general plan was.
<Unit193> ninetls: More ifdef!  https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/commit/e42cc02d0eab067263b841133dbbee8674a667d0 :D
<flexiondotorg> Unit193: The aspiration for Ubuntu MATE is to switch to Ayatana Indicators during the 18.04 cycle.
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: OK, I was told you were in charge of those things this cycle.
<ninetls> Unit193: I saw that
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-30
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: platform.cosmic -> platform.disco @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=7570fbf6a630f11d0a42858179e719462e678efd (by Adam Conrad)
<HeadlessHorseman> We've got a name!
<HeadlessHorseman> ...The 70s called, they want it back.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-31
<HeadlessHorseman> bluesabre: gconf is dead, we should remove it from xubuntu-defaults.
<HeadlessHorseman> ....Or I'll haunt you..?
<knome> HeadlessHorseman, not scary, you already haunt us
<bluesabre> HeadlessHorseman: feel free to give it the axe :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-11-01
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-1-released-tp52094.html (by Sean Davis-6)
 * HeadlessHorseman tazes bluesabre.
 * bluesabre farts... spookily.
<HeadlessHorseman> Number of people that seem to have pulled that from the PPA is pretty low.
<bluesabre> Not super surprising :)
<HeadlessHorseman> Are you going to be pushing for its inclusion?
<bluesabre> Once it's ready, yeah
<knome> bluesabre, phaha.
<bluesabre> Morning everybody.
<bluesabre> !team | I made a Xubuntu 19.04 proposals pad (link below) for us to dump plans and ideas for this release. Please drop in and add some ideas  and feedback :)
<ubottu> I made a Xubuntu 19.04 proposals pad (link below) for us to dump plans and ideas for this release. Please drop in and add some ideas  and feedback :): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> Link: https://pad.ubuntu.com/x-19-04-proposals
<bluesabre> nice, pad.ubuntu is down :D
<knome> always fun when $tech fails when you need it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Got a copy elsewhere?
<bluesabre> Unit193: nah
<Unit193> Let's see what I can do then.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-2-released-tp52097.html (by Sean Davis-6)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-11-02
<flocculant> you could just look today instead :p
<Unit193> Yes, I have since been able to see it.
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed :)
<ondondil> Could this be a problem with xfwm as this behaviour doesn't occur on other desktop environments? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1484877
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 1484877 in Widget: Gtk "[Xfce][CSD] Context menu and autoscroll position incorrect in un-maximized window with title bar disabled on Xfce" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ondondil> I tested it with xfwm 4.13.1 on cosmic. The same thing happens.
<brainwash> ondondil: disable xfwm4's builtin compositor
<ondondil> xfwm 4.13.1 on cosmic with compositor disabled - now it works correctly but there's a caveat
<ondondil> if I open unmaximized window it works fine until I snap window to the side of the screen. Then the wrong behavior reocurrs
<ondondil> or open maximized window -> snap it to the side of the screen (it works correctly) -> snap it to the other side and the wrong behavior reoccurs
<brainwash> I saw this report some days ago
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14807
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14807 in General "Snapping and exiting fullscreen firefox without titlebar (and CSD apps) is broken" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> ondondil: you will to report the issue to the maintainer of xfwm
<brainwash> so that he can look into that
<ondondil> okay, thanks for pointing me in the right direction brainwash (IRC) 
<ondondil> I described my the issue here https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14807#c4
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14807 in General "Snapping and exiting fullscreen firefox without titlebar (and CSD apps) is broken" [Normal,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2018-11-03
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: just so you know - dd is uninstallable - for everyone afaik (using ubiquity that is)
<flocculant> bluesabre: we going to get ppa's for dd soonish?
<bluesabre> flocculant: planning on putting all the plumbing together today
<flocculant> cool - got it all updated here for dd
<flocculant> also commented a bit on the pad
<flocculant> more to come there when I'm more with it 
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks :)
<Unit193> I can push what needs to be pushed, sure.
<flocculant> hi Unit193 
<Unit193> Hello.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you have something in mind, or can I do that for you?
<bluesabre> Unit193: go for it, it was nothing more than flipping the dd switch on dailies and copying the not-dailies
<Unit193> OK, I can certainly do non-daily
#xubuntu-devel 2018-11-04
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you know of a way to export a list of bugs from lp? Maybe a scriptable way?
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean like "top 3 bugs"? :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I mean, yeah, that's the direction I'm going, but I have other uses for said data as well :)
<TJ-> bluesabre: Are you using launchpadlib?
<bluesabre> TJ-: figured that'd be the answer :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: For doing things in batches, that's always the answer.
<flocculant> Unit193: cheers - saw the experimental disco
<flocculant> which just sounds awesome :p
<flocculant> we doing daily and hopefully shimmer?
<Unit193> I presume so.
<flocculant> oh - ha ha ha - I thought you did it :p
<flocculant> oh now I re-read, "I can certainly do non-daily"
<flocculant> nver understood why update-mangler shows a changelog but synaptic tells me the 'it's a ppa' doom page
<Unit193> Doom and gloom, and despair are more fun?
<flocculant> :p
<TJ-> bluesabre: You'll quickly get frustrated with the launchpadlib/lptools python classes! 
<TJ-> bluesabre: PoC for hottest bugs list: http://iam.tj/projects/ubuntu/lp-top-bugs.py
<flocculant> pretty sure a while back knome had something like that 
<TJ-> flocculant: the lptools/lazr libraries are a pain to work with, as is the API at times :)
<TJ-> flocculant: e.g. the bug_task doesn't include just the bug id, you have to 'scrape' it out of another attribute
<flocculant> certainly something I'm glad I can safely ignore
<TJ-> and the lazr.* Entries aren't iterable so have to convert them
<flocculant> we were looking to get something showing on https://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa iirc
<flocculant> just realised that was PoC - cos none of our issues there :p
<TJ-> I could knock something together; are there xubuntu specific tags or other attributes?
<flocculant> TJ-: not sure anymore tbh, I think there is a list of packages we 'care' about 
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<TJ-> I might be able to automate that, pull in the team object and get that list. 
<flocculant> that'd would be useful I am sure
<flocculant> the amount of bug reports I have no interest in via something I belong to means I mostly ignore them all 
<TJ-> Looks like team.getBugSubscriberPackages() ... I'll play about
<flocculant> TJ-: you are a star :)
<ochosi> TJ-: i don't know you (yet), but i think i like you already
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> TJ-: unfortunately ochosi timed out loads lately and hasn't seen you in channel
 * flocculant remembers from ~18.04
<ochosi> indeed, shame on me
<flocculant> such is the interwebs
<ochosi> such is RL
<flocculant> didn't mean to make ochosi feel shit
<flocculant> yea for sure :)
 * ochosi goes into a quiet corner to cry
 * flocculant feels REAL bad now :(
<ochosi> :D
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> TJ-: I'm guessing here, but I would suspect a whole lot of 'our' bugs have an equal heat (or are dupes) so some date ordering might help - as would (if possible) listing any external bug number
<flocculant> it's likely that people would be dealing upstream more than on lp
<TJ-> flocculant: once it can get the bug object you can extract whatever info you want from it
<flocculant> right - just thinking outside the box, where I would have been
<flocculant> I'm sure bluesabre will get what he needs
<flocculant> personally now I'm only worried about possible release blockers
<flocculant> little things like bugs are akxwi-dave's problem now from my perspective
<flocculant> but I will be loud if I think something is a release blocker :p
<TJ-> here's the PoC  http://iam.tj/projects/ubuntu/xubuntu_top_bugs.py
<flocculant> that's much more xfceish :D
<TJ-> well, that's the package list for xubuntu-team
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> except the stagin urls at least 
<flocculant> bluesabre: you might want to check packages on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<flocculant> gmusicbrowser at least isn't on e of ours now afaik
<flocculant> actually don't you just need https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs ordered by open?
<TJ-> script was only listing statuses that are confirmed,triaged,in-progress, to avoid 'noise' from new/incomplete
<TJ-> since presumably those are the ones you can actually do something about immediately
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-28
<knome> bluesabre, "poke the database", i can do that today
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<knome> ok, i'm pretty sure it should start working sometime soonish, the database is now set
<knome> bluesabre, should be set now
<knome> also fixed the display for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyxdg/+bug/1833863, now uses htmlentities()
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1833863 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Incorrect logic for <Merge type="all">" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> thanks again knome!
<knome> np
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<knome> haha.
<knome> well cheers... but isn't it the council who starts the cycle meetings :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for kicking of the cycle with the blueprints and branches
<Unit193> knome: It's just going on what the wiki says. :D
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-30
<knome> ;)=
<scribe64> Where would one go to get involved with the themes and artwork side of xubuntu?
<GridCube> :) hi scribe64 you can start by reading here https://xubuntu.org/contribute/artwork/
<scribe64> thank you GridCube, are there any other helpful links you could point me towards?
<GridCube> also just wait here until some of the devs are around to talk more with you, if you can not then follow the mail route
<GridCube> https://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<scribe64> thanks for the good info
#xubuntu-devel 2019-11-01
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Drop workspace labels, inconsistent with 5+ workspaces (LP: #1829778) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=f61baa5b71472fbf86acaf67055f101dd8d6cd6d (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Set the Xubuntu wallpaper as default for up to 4 displays @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=ee2ce75541b769f3d78598ce2f2d17acfea8a232 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Not sure if there was a bug for that or if it's just been mentioned here and there for a while
#xubuntu-devel 2019-11-02
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Refresh translation templates @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=24c933943661107e9be05217e8a0188f1bc6f89f (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Restore translation ability to xfhelp4.desktop and xubuntu.desktop @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=8a1c3a58536965de213eeea745af3b9f1e59b1ae (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add debian/files to .gitignore @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=2698a9999d1f50d5dce30c4e5327139617453563 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Remove conffiles /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/autostart/xfce4-tips-autostart.desktop and /etc/xdg/xdg-xubunt... @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=3601dcea09b1c7d508a44998e6318082b1ad9965 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> (Sorry)
<Unit193> So, as far as translations go we have several things supporting it, and several that do not such as thunar-print which uses notify-send to display messages in English only.
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/usr/share/polkit-1/actions I'd still really like it if we could upstream that. :/
<bluesabre> I agree
<Unit193> When I had poked about that, codebrainz didn't seem too interested.  Would you have better luck?  Does AndreLDM have some control over that pkg?
<bluesabre> Yeah, I can bring it up again
<Unit193> Thanks!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Merge translation templates with Launchpad @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=564cbabe8fd949b8821a5e03235e09b3b83d3dd5 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for that note about thunar-print, I'll see if I can get that translatable today
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Refresh translations now that everything is connected again, and update da @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=77085fa45c7c1d757fb95a8ae098fafb78b98096 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> Hello.  OK!
<bluesabre> other than that, everything should be translatable again now :)
<Unit193> Bash scripts aren't too hard to add translation support to, with that script you'd mainly just adjust it so rather than repeating lines you add FailMsg= or so.
<Unit193> (I have a crappy weather script with translations support.)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Make thunar-print translatable @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=c2a577572bfb89b55c70d205cfa3510292dbe6c3 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Unit193: look sane? ^
<Unit193> Err..
<bluesabre> (ish)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Convert Makefile spaces to tabs @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=77f51ab66ba71a34408adf1d304599714297d979 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> You realize you can just put  TEXTDOMAIN=thunar-print  then use 'echo $"All script options:"'  ?
<Unit193> (There's a newer, nicer way to do it, but I can't remember what.)
<bluesabre> I didn't realize that... the google searches made it out to be harder
<bluesabre> I'll give it a go though
<bluesabre> Oh, does that play well with variable expansion (e.g. File %s failed to print)
<Unit193> I have line+=$"Observed: $obtime"
<bluesabre> Ah... ../thunar-print:10: warning: the syntax $"..." is deprecated due to security reasons; use eval_gettext instead
<Unit193> https://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/localization.html
<Unit193> Aha!
<bluesabre> Thanks
<Unit193> That's the function I was thinking of.
<Unit193> https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Preparing-Shell-Scripts.html might be way better...
<Unit193> eval_gettext () { gettext "$1" | (export PATH `envsubst --variables "$1"`; envsubst "$1")
<Unit193> Heh, doesn't seem like it'd be any faster after all.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Think I've got it
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GHrfhBx9fR/ how's that?
<bluesabre> Interestingly intltool is still dumb with eval_gettext
<Unit193> ...Is it overthinking it to use "$program does not seem to be installed" and just change the program rahter than re-translating it 4 times? :D
<Unit193> (Likely, yes.  I'll shut it now)  Seems good?
<bluesabre> That's a good point
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Better gettext handling, simpler translations @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=6e9091cdc9a62b7b8efe905f629586f0b8ab02f9 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> As always, thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Thank you, bluesabre!  And huh, did not know #: ../thunar-print:27 ../thunar-print:36 ../thunar-print:45 ../thunar-print:56  was a thing.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Use 'Print file(s)' instead of 'Print file/s' @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=3d89b1b0e5d1683dc783a815ada17fe20570b7d8 (by Sean Davis)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-11-03
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfburn 0.6.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfburn-0-6-0-released-tp56418.html (by Rene Kjellerup)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Workaround menu handling errors in pyxdg (LP: #1833863) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=7b9ad09a7408895b76028dc110c7c7373aeabfa0 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Move live config files to debian/live; Remove lock menu option in live since locking is disabled (LP... @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=a2b3677aae988b469c7ad6a7eaad25590d5b2bd9 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Remove light-locker autostart entry since we no longer ship it @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=8d4d61392f385d01176b3d4162d77d80c89bfe8c (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> ..Won't that cause co-install with x-d-s issues?
<bluesabre> Which one?
<Unit193> whisker.
<bluesabre> ah, dang, you're probably right about that
<bluesabre> Guess I could install that into skel instead
<bluesabre> hacky but less conflicty, right? :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Install whiskermenu override to /etc/skel/.config/xfce4/panel/ @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=3501c1211a7ad760b2fd1646b01160ab126a9a7c (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Unit193: thoughts on Thunar's breadcrumb pathbar by default?
<Unit193> Dunno, guess I should look at it.
<bluesabre> I'm also surprised that thunar-shares-plugin isn't packaged... was it at one time?
<Unit193> I pushed it to extras.
<bluesabre> aha
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Version bump to 20.04, unreleased @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=21c71281f4646bd7c9336f748a297d8005fc03a0 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> So, sort of but not in any real repos.
<bluesabre> right
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screenshooter 1.9.7 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screenshooter-1-9-7-released-tp56420.html (by Andre Miranda)
<bluesabre> It's cool to see some fresh translations rolling into https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/+translations
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you have any BSD familiarity? If so, do you know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1565330 is still applicable?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1565330 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "ubuntuBSD support" [Medium,Incomplete]
<Unit193> Is UbuntuBSD still a thing...?
<bluesabre> No ideaaaaaa
<Unit193> I don't like changing it from all to any. :/
<Unit193> It's dead, Jim.
<bluesabre> Cool
<Unit193> > SF.net project hasn't been updated since '16, same for Twitter, nxdomain on the site, IRC lists 16.04 BETA1 as latest release.
<bluesabre> Handy
<bluesabre> Another bug to close out :)
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Does this mean I should stop slacking? :3
<bluesabre> Nah, you're fine. I ask a question, you give the right answer, what more can I ask for? :D
<Unit193> As I see it: Not a lot of uploads to do since we're *not* going to pull in 4.15.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfburn 0.6.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfburn-0-6-1-released-tp56432.html (by Rene Kjellerup)
<bluesabre> Unit193: yup, definitely fair. I'll have to start pushing out some 4.14.x releases instead ;)
<Unit193> Ahaha. :D
<keremet> hello. can anybody give me a link to article how to build xubuntu installation image?
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, no 4.15 plz :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: I'm a bit confused.. you removed the screen lock entry from whiskermenu?
<brainwash> for the live session
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, screen lock is disabled in the live session, so the button should not be visible
<brainwash> I was under the impression that xfce4-screensaver does not ask for the user name, so unlocking the live session would only require the user to press a button
<brainwash> with light-locker the user had to provide the user name
<brainwash> "xubuntu"
<bluesabre> Right, but it will still present a password prompt, and from the lock screen you could click "switch user" to go back to the greeter
<bluesabre> Figure it's better to not show confusing things as our first impression
<bluesabre> (but also happy to discuss)
<brainwash> my concern was that hiding it would be confusing too
<brainwash> sometimes users are asked to test screenlocking with the live session
<brainwash> to see if it a bug with their normal installation
<brainwash> or, people just want to check how the lock screen looks like
<bluesabre> So maybe, we instead enable locking and show the button, but disable lock on suspend and timeout to avoid surprise locks?
<brainwash> but those are not surprise locks
<brainwash> that is how the system works
<brainwash> when installed
<brainwash> it says "Try Xubuntu" when you boot the ISO
<brainwash> :D
<bluesabre> True, but asking for a password when a user has never set one is ehhhhhh
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> uhm
<brainwash> I just tested it
<brainwash> it unlocks the screen without any input
<brainwash> black, brief unlock dialog, desktop
<bluesabre> interesting
<brainwash> because it is a passwordless account?
<bluesabre> Yeah, I think there might be something in the code for that scenario
<bluesabre> Or, it crashed
<brainwash> works as expected after setting a password
<bluesabre> Neat
<brainwash> my idea: no password -> show unlock dialog with input field hidden
<bluesabre> Mind creating a bug report for that one on bugzilla? Not going to get to it today, but I think it's a good idea
<brainwash> okay
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-time-out-plugin 1.1.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-time-out-plugin-1-1-0-released-tp56437.html (by Andre Miranda)
