#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-05
<ScottL> persia, are you around, i was hoping to discuss the network-admin bug and the new webiste with you
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-06
 * abogani waves
<abogani> Are there anyone interested to review and eventually upload -lowlatency and -realtime kernels?
<abogani> Sorry wrong channel! :-)
<scott-work> daily image failed to build last night
<scott-work> cd image was looking for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.maverick/
<scott-work> which doesn't exist and i don't think it ever did
<scott-work> i'll wait a day and see if the problem persists or if this affects other distributions and it gets attention by others
<jussi> scott-work: have you been running listadmin recently?  seems as though theres been a lot of spam for me to deal with...
<scott-work> jussi: i think the last time i ran it was late last week
<scott-work> but yeah, i leave that terminal up on my computer to help remind me and i tend to do it several times a week
<scott-work> jussi:  have you been running listadmin as well?   that would probably explain why sometimes i get metric tonnes of spam and others not so much ;)
<scott-work> TheMuso: would you be available in fifteen minutes to answer a few questions about me creating a few SRU's?
<scott-work> i have the wiki documentation but parts are still unclear to me
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-07
<ScottL> jussi, how often do you check listadmin?
<ScottL> TheMuso, when you get a chance, could you answer a few questions about me doing an SRU, the wiki information isn't completely clear about something to me
<TheMuso> ScottL: sure
<ScottL> TheMuso, thanks, i want to address a few issues in qjackctl and jack for 10.04.1
<TheMuso> ScottL: ok
<ScottL> for each of these a new upstream version was released that fixed the problem, do i still need to attach a patch to the SRU?
<ScottL> or will the new ubuntu version just be used?
<ScottL> i.e. use qjackctl-0.3.8 from maverick to fix the problem vs. qjackctl-0.3.5 that has the port renaming bug
<TheMuso> ScottL: Unless the upstrea version fixes many problems that need addressing, its better to take the patch from upstrea that fixes the bug, and apply it to the Ubuntu package.
<TheMuso> So take the single patch from 0.3.8 to fix the bug and apply it to lucid's 0.3.5.
<ScottL> i'm not sure there was a "patch" from upstream, rather a new upstream version was released, but i can create the patch myself though
<TheMuso> Yes, you have to extract the patch from the new upstream release that fixes that specific bug.
<ScottL> okay, the next thing it says is to upload the fixed package to 'release-proposed'...
<ScottL> not sure how to do this...is this with dput?
<ScottL> and not sure if i had rights to upload to it as i'm not MOTU or anything
<ScottL> TheMuso, ^^^
<TheMuso> ScottL: You need to get someone to sponsor the upload for you.
<ScottL> cool, that makes sense and is what i suspected
<ScottL> very groovy, thanks TheMuso, i'll start working on them this week :)
<TheMuso> ScottL: np
 * abogani waves
<ScottL> TheMuso, i had a thought while half awake in bed this morning, what if the package doesn't have a patch system right now?
<ScottL> should i introduce quilt or dpatch?  or is there another way?
<quadrispro> ScottL, composite has been uploaded to unstable
<quadrispro> hey persia! how are you?
<quadrispro> (hi guys!)
<scott-work> doh, quadrispro is too quick to leave :P
<scott-work> ardour 2.8.11 is released
<TheMuso> ScottL: You simply apply the patch to the files in question directly, i.e don't create a patch. The patch will then become part of the diff.gz.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-09
<ScottL> persia, are you around yet?
<ScottL> jussio1, what was the other irc channel you asked me to log into a couple of weeks ago?  it is the one where the interview was set up
<jussi01> ScottL: #ubuntu-community-team
<persia> ScottL: Kinda around now.
<scott-work> persia: there are a few items that i would appreciate your thoughts/input/suggestions, when would be a good time for you?
<scott-work> this evening or anytime almost this weekend would be good for me
<persia> I've 30-50% attention for the next couple hours, and more in the 12-15 hour range, or after about 19 hours.
<scott-work> 30-50% attention available or required of you?
<scott-work> available would imply that later is better for us to talk
<scott-work> required of you would imply that it would be better to talk now
<scott-work> i can make it work either way...your discretion
<persia> later is better, but now is easier to schedule :)
<scott-work> understood, later is preferrable to me as well, i forget your timezone, however +8 hours from now is good or approximately +30 hours from now is good
<persia> I'm not sure I can do now+8, but I'll let you know when I awake.  now+30 ends up being the middle of the night before a scheduled morning engagement for me, so won't work either.
<scott-work> now+30:  I am available from now+30 probably through now+40
<scott-work> we have always have a time delayed conversation where i post questions to start the conversation and you respond when available.  it's worked before :)
<persia> There's some uncertainty about the length of my engagement: I might be able to catch you in the now+38-now+40 range.
<persia> But yeah, contentful pings are more useful :)
<scott-work> detrate`: are you arround?
<detrate`> hey scott-work, what's up?
<scott-work> any word on the website update?  i'm hoping to clear up the hosting issues this weekend (or at least narrow the scope)
<scott-work> detrate`: i was hoping stochastic would be available to help, but alas, he is not apparently
<detrate`> honestly, I've kind of abandoned it in favor of other work waiting to hear back on the situation
<detrate`> I didn't want to move forward with a wordpress site if we couldn't deploy it
<scott-work> sorry, heading out to lunch, i'll catch you in an hour
<scott-work> understandable about not moving forward, bbl
<detrate`> k
<scott-work> detrate`: sorry 'bout that, as i was saying to have a clearer idea of where we are going after this weekend
<scott-work> i've been trying to get in contact with cory kontros also but haven't had much luck in the past few weeks
<scott-work> oops "as i was saying, i hope to have a clearer..."
<detrate`> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-10
<rlameiro> ScottL: hi there
<rlameiro> just cheking out with you
<rlameiro> i have beeing a bit busy this time
<rlameiro> I will try to get the ubuntustudio controls done
<rlameiro> at least the minimum things required for it to work
<rlameiro> sorry for beeing away 
<ScottL> rlameiro, ah, that's more than okay because i've been away for about a month as well
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-11
<ScottL> persia: i pm'ed you
<quadrispro> hello guys
<ScottL> hi quadrispro 
<quadrispro> hi ScottL 
<ScottL> my blog is syndicated on planet ubuntu! http://planet.ubuntu.com/
<ScottL> yay
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-04
<falktx> hey
<astraljava> Hi falk-work!
<falk-work> hey astraljava
<falk-work> ScottL: ping
<astraljava> Probably won't be online for another 3 hours or so.
<astraljava> ...or should I say, awake. :)
<falk-work> hehe, no hurry
<holstein> i 'stacked the new' a bit for the ubuntu weekly newsletter
<holstein> http://www.mikeholstein.info/2011/07/living-solo-bass-made-with-ubuntu.html
<holstein> stacked the news*
<ScottL> ah, missed falk
<ScottL> sorry i've been out, re-injured my back again and been on some medicine :/   kind of a waste of a holiday
<astraljava> ScottL: Oh crap! Take care of yourself!
<astraljava> I can imagine that. Well, HID anyway! :)
<holstein> ScottL: d00d... that sux
<ScottL> i'm doing okay, just really restricts how i move at this point...it's much better than it was two days ago  :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-05
<Kokito> howdy
<Kokito> happy 4th of July to those who celebrate
 * abogani waves 
<abogani> Anyone have tested Oneiric?
<astraljava> abogani: Don't have a test machine with me at the moment, but I can do some testing in a virtual machine, I suppose. Will have to wait until this evening, though.
<abogani> astraljava: Thanks!
<astraljava> Which reminds me, gotta download the .iso now that it won't drain my 3G quota. :)
<astraljava> Oops! 404 on cdimage.u.c
<astraljava> For our images, I mean.
<astraljava> Why are there no zsync files?
<astraljava> Oh, they are there.
<astraljava> Don't know what happened there.
<astraljava> First attempt at installing in virtualbox. Don't know which one is horribly broken, suspect the installer though. Cannot install libc6 while doing the base system install.
<ailo_> I had problems with the standard Ubuntu alpha 1. The alternate CD I was able to install, from usb stick, but no desktop. Had to add those afterwards
<ailo_> Those packages, that is
<charlie-tca> astraljava: that should have been fixed in today's latest images
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Right. The problem was, there were no today's images when I downloaded. Perhaps they appeared only later. I'll try again tomorrow.
<charlie-tca> They appeared quite late today
<charlie-tca> and the current one is a re-spin
<astraljava> So I understood.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-06
<astraljava> So still no new images. What gives? Where does one ask after them?
<charlie-tca> It is alpha2 testing, no new images during the testing days. New images should be out on Friday, but if you need a re-spin, ask in #ubuntu-release
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Ahh... okay then. But there were new ones for Xubuntu, at least for yesterday. We did not get images for 20110705 at all.
<charlie-tca> I don't see any for ubuntustudio for the 5th. Last spin for the testing is marked july 4
<charlie-tca> are those not usable?
 * charlie-tca will push a re-spin if needed
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu got new ones yesterday because I got pushy
<astraljava> That's what I said, we didn't get any yesterday. And yeah, it failed on me for a vbox install.
<astraljava> And zsync just said it wasn't updated after I got it, so it looks like I'm pretty much screwed until new images are being spun.
<charlie-tca> re-spinning now
<charlie-tca> Getting new images done now
<charlie-tca> astraljava: sorry, I should have looked at the date yesterday. I did look that the tracker had you in there
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Ooh, super! Thanks! :D
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah I've been lacking in attention now, I'm like out of my comfort zone since all my regular machines are in the old apartment still. :)
<astraljava> You know how it is, when you can't do your regular routines...
<astraljava> workflow, was the word I was looking for, but instead had to settle for routine
<charlie-tca> np
<charlie-tca> This is a big learning process, we will get you there
<charlie-tca> astraljava: images are ready now
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Excellent! Thanks!
<charlie-tca> astraljava: is the image working now?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Haven't had time to test yet, but will fire vbox up in a few minutes, I'll let you know soon enough.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Looks like it went past that stage now, so thank you _very_ much for re-spinning the discs!
<astraljava> err... images.
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<charlie-tca> We have to hope :)
<astraljava> Did you get the request through in #ubuntu-release, or where?
<astraljava> Well, now it fails in a much later stage, but still, good to have it done.
<astraljava> in-target: gnome-panel: Breaks: libpanel-applet2-0 but 1:2.32.1-0ubuntu6.5 is to be installed
<astraljava> in-target: liblash-compat-1: Breaks: lashd but 0.6.0~rc2-5build1 is to be installed
<charlie-tca> Probably did it in #ubuntu-release
<charlie-tca> I get kind of pushy when they don't respin and it isn't our fault
<astraljava> Right, for a reason too.
<charlie-tca> Now I have to file the installer bug, too. Ubuntu 386 alternate won't even boot on one computer here
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 386 in Baz (deprecated) "change to removed files does not conflict" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386
<charlie-tca> works on the other three
<astraljava> Haha!
<astraljava> Right. I'll file the ones above.
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> My installs are all on hardware here, so we will see what they do
<charlie-tca> so, you want me to select all the things or just the top one now?
<astraljava> Well, that's true. But I will of course state that these are on vbox. They can decide whether that's a problem or not.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: I always select them all, to get more coverage.
<charlie-tca> I don't what those things are, and I don't have any special audio/video stuff
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Shouldn't matter, isn't the point just to see whether the applications install at this point?
<charlie-tca> Okay, Picked all of them
<charlie-tca> As long as they don't require any special cards or anything
<charlie-tca> mythbuntu, for example, does require a tuner card to actually install
<astraljava> Ahh... right.
<astraljava> I don't think that holds for studio, though.
<charlie-tca> OkeyDokey
<charlie-tca> hm, you broke it
<astraljava> Every machine ought to have all the required components.
<astraljava> Did I? *damn*
<astraljava> What did I do now?
<charlie-tca> looking at the logs to find out
<charlie-tca> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<charlie-tca> gnome-panel : Breaks: libpanel-applet2-0 but 1:2.32.1-0ubuntu6.5 is to be installed
<charlie-tca> liblash-compat-1 : Breaks: lashd but 0.6.0~rc2-5build1 is to be installed
<charlie-tca> There is the cause of the failure. It won't matter what is selected
<astraljava> I believed as much.
<charlie-tca> Did you file the bug yet?
<charlie-tca> Or should I?
<astraljava> So, why is gnome-panel still being installed? It's going away anyhow?
<astraljava> No I didn't. Wondering what to file it on.
<charlie-tca> because it is still seeded?
<astraljava> Right.
<charlie-tca> I will file one, then. Against Ubiquity, of course
<astraljava> Okay. I'll check the code. It's about time to get involved with that.
<charlie-tca> and it is both images
<astraljava> Well, they come from the same seeds, don't they?
<astraljava> Yup, there it is in the desktop file of the seed. *grumble*
<astraljava> But wait, that's all over gnome. What the hell? What am I missing here?
<astraljava> Right, it hasn't been updated to accommodate Xubuntu at all. Or is it being used in the first place?
<charlie-tca> astraljava: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/806672
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 806672 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "UbuntuStudio images for Oneiric Alpha2 fail to install" [Undecided,New]
<astraljava> Okay. Ubiquity is a weird beast for me. How do I find out which seeds it uses for installation?
<astraljava> Wait a minute, Ubiquity? Isn't that the desktop installer?
<astraljava> I mean, not-the-alternate-installer?
<charlie-tca> crap
<charlie-tca> yes, I will change it to debian-installer
<charlie-tca> but it uses seeds that are decided here, probably scott 
<astraljava> Yep. I'm a little behind on those issues, so I will wait for more acknowledged opinions on where to fix the seeds.
<charlie-tca> trying without any packages selected fails too
<charlie-tca> I notified skaet already, too
<charlie-tca> ScottL should know about the seeds
<charlie-tca> maybe ailo_ too, and persia
<persia> If using ubiquity, no seeds are used for installation: rather the contents of the live filesystem are simply copied.
<persia> The live filesystem is constructed from tasks, and the tasks are created from seeds, but we'd see the issue with the live filesystem failing to build, rather than with a failure to install on some device.
<persia> When using the alternate images, as we tend to do, the installation is driven by tasks.
<astraljava> persia: Right. And tasks are defined where nowadays?
<persia> The tasks are created from the seeds: our tasks should be created from https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.oneiric
<persia> I *think* tasks are defined in tasksel, but derived from the seeds.  Unless something drastic has changed, we shouldn't care except about the seeds.
<persia> In this case, I suspect the desktop seed ( http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.oneiric/view/head:/desktop )
<astraljava> Right, so I was looking at the correct place.
<astraljava> And it seems the seed hasn't been updated to reflect the changing to Xubuntu base.
<persia> It doesn't look very much like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.oneiric/view/head:/desktop
<persia> Indeed.
<astraljava> No point in Alpha-2 testing, then.
<persia> Well, could fix it.
<charlie-tca> Can?
<persia> Sure.
<charlie-tca> We have a few hours, if they can do the re-spin while armel is building
<persia> Ah, it probably can't be fixed in that timeframe.
<charlie-tca> I have machines to test with
<persia> Would need a meta upload, a cron.germinate run, and then a rebuild.
<persia> Adding to seeds is quick.  Removing from them less so.
<persia> That said, it's worth doing the work to fix it anyway, so that it's ready for next time.
<charlie-tca> Well, we did try to get this done
 * persia isn't quite sure which parts of "desktop" should match xubuntu, and which other bits are needed
<charlie-tca> not sure Xubuntu should even have the alpha2, at this point.
<astraljava> That's the problem, I don't either. Cory has done some application-checking between what we had and what Xubuntu has, and I believe Scott participated. But I have no idea about any logs of such sessions.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-07
<ScottL> astraljava, i just talked to skaet about releasing an image for ubuntu studio and told her i would rather not make an A2 image
<ScottL> we still need to push the xfce changes from the seeds first
<ScottL> TheMuso, would you be able to help cory and i with the updated seeds and germination?
<TheMuso> ScottL: Not right now, but I may be able to later today.
<ScottL> TheMuso, not a problem, we shouldn't have an image for A2 anyway, so at your earliest convenience is fine :)
<ScottL> TheMuso, on a related topic, persia and i were discussing create a group that has rights to push to the repository so we will not have to keep bugging you for these tasks :)
<TheMuso> Sounds good.
<saidinesh5> ouch! kxstudio seems to have broken the packages on my ubuntu studio :-/
<holstein> in what way?
<holstein> eh... as long as you know how to purge-ppa, you should be alright
<holstein> ive used the -f flag a few times
<saidinesh5> Ah ya holstein..... well i can't install half the packages from kxstudio 
<saidinesh5> cuz they can't find the dependencies
<astraljava> ScottL: Right, but where are the xfce changes?
<ScottL> astraljava,  i believe they should have been the latest bzr revision in the desktop seed
<astraljava> ScottL: It still has things like: = Desktop GNOME Apps =, but rather more importantly, this: * gnome-panel, that breaks the installation now.
<astraljava> jaska@lagavulin 14:43:31 ~$ cat src/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.oneiric/desktop | grep -i xfce
<astraljava> jaska@lagavulin 14:45:00 ~$ 
<astraljava> Same goes for xubu.
<astraljava> $ bzr revision-info 
<astraljava> 1267 themuso@ubuntu.com-20110609234530-3s6n0t19tjsi8nr0
<ScottL> astraljava, hold on, let me look
<ScottL> astraljava, apparently this is where cory was working: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio
<ScottL> but if you are finding gnome-panel in the desktop seed then we should probably address this as well
<ScottL> astraljava, do you have cory's email address?  it would be nice to talk to him about it just to make sure we are all on the same page
<astraljava> He's not listing it on LP, and wiki's giving me hell. I seem to remember coryisatm@ubuntu.com, but I could be wrong. You can still send him an email through LP, though, from his page.
<astraljava> ScottL: Right, but that (u-d-settings) doesn't reflect to the image spinning, so we need to work on that now, so we can do iso testing soon.
<astraljava> Fortunately we got 4 weeks to date for Alpha-3, but we must start working on it pretty soon. I'll try to do some merging with Xubuntu over the weekend, if not tonight.
<astraljava> ScottL: Oh yeah, you wanted to talk about backporting. Did I miss anything thus far?
<astraljava> Oh, and I need to work on those graphics packages so that we can get them to debian.
<astraljava> Lots to do, lots to do. :)
<holstein> saidinesh5: interesting... is this 10.04?
<holstein> 11.04?
<holstein> you should /j #kxstudio and talk to falktx about it sometime
<falktx> saidinesh5: what's up?
<falktx> holstein: ^
<holstein> 03:27 < saidinesh5> Ah ya holstein..... well i can't install half the packages from kxstudio 
<falktx> saidinesh5: ping
<holstein> ^^ thats all i know, not sure what version of buntu the PPA's have been added to
<holstein> ive had to use the -f flag a few times, but nothing like that has happened to me
<falktx> holstein: he's probably on maverick, or he's missing some PPAs
<falktx> maverick is the system I never tested :(
<holstein> saidinesh5: this is probably the issue though
<holstein> some of the PPA's depend on the others
<saidinesh5> holstein: falktx pong
<saidinesh5> oh ya, i have added all the ppas by hand............
<falktx> saidinesh5: which ubuntu version?
<saidinesh5> i am on 11.04 btw.
<falktx> ah, k
<falktx> saidinesh5: please run:
<falktx> sudo apt-get update
<falktx> saidinesh5: post the results on pastebin or similar
<saidinesh5> ohh k one moment.........
<saidinesh5> need to change the net connection
<falktx> saidinesh5: so?
<saidinesh5> falktx: now i got a lot of updates all of a sudden.. :O
<saidinesh5> so downloading them all
<saidinesh5> how frequently do the updates come falktx ??
<falktx> ahha
<saidinesh5> my last update was today morning
<falktx> saidinesh5: not much recently, cause I've been busy
<saidinesh5> oh i see
<falktx> saidinesh5: the 1st update is the biggest one, then it will come small updates from time to time
<falktx> for example, I just uploaded zynjacku 6
<saidinesh5> today morning i remember doing a 220MB update
<falktx> wow
<saidinesh5> i think the reboot might have solved some issues
<saidinesh5> but ya falktx there was this one issue .... some jack related lib was provided by both kxstudio and ia32libs or something
<saidinesh5> so i had to uninstall all the programs that depended on jack ....
<saidinesh5> and apparently it took away all the audio softwares...... so which package to install now??
<falktx> saidinesh5: oh, I know about ia32libs problem, though it was fixed
<falktx> saidinesh5: install kxstudio-meta-audio ;)
<saidinesh5> on it :)
<saidinesh5> ouch! Need to get 315 MB/360 MB of archives.
<saidinesh5> for kxstudio-meta-audio
<falktx> of course!
<falktx> ardour, hydrogen, and lots of audio apps and plugins
<saidinesh5> hmm... ya
<falktx> KXStudio PPA is full of goodies you know
<saidinesh5> :D
<saidinesh5> so what did the kxstudio-desktop package bring then?
<falktx> saidinesh5: the desktop, not audio or video
<falktx> just like ubuntustudio-desktop does too
<falktx> note - default desktop is kde4
<saidinesh5> Ah yes ... :)
<saidinesh5> falktx: btw. the startup applications i add in GNOME 
<saidinesh5> are they common startup or 
<saidinesh5> just for GNOME ??
<saidinesh5> like for e.g the AWN DOck
<falktx> hm, not sure, but I think kde will got them
<falktx> saidinesh5: you can still use gnome if you want
<saidinesh5> hmm.... i m more comfy with KDE though ... now that it is getting installed, why not use it :P 
<saidinesh5> btw. is it only me or flash(youtube) + compiz is really choppy all of a sudden?
<falktx> flash = not linux friendly
<falktx> saidinesh5: remove libflashsupport if installed
<falktx> err, libflashsupport-jack
<saidinesh5> hmm...... its not installed falktx
<falktx> saidinesh5: install kxstudio-default-settings and relogin
<falktx> ^ this package has some cute system tweaks
<saidinesh5> aye aye 
<saidinesh5> falktx: where do i increase the buffer size or something of jack ??
<saidinesh5> lots of clicks in the audio
<falktx> saidinesh5: use candace (my own tools)
<falktx> need to install first though
<saidinesh5> its installed :)
<saidinesh5> wow ... your own tools?? kool :D
<saidinesh5> actually the whole thing "just works(tm)" .. didnt expect to hear the audio playing without messing around with jack.....
<falktx> saidinesh5: you'll be amazed with "carla"
 * falktx is proud of his work in KXStudio and Cadence
 * saidinesh5 is looking at it
<saidinesh5> falktx: awesome!! Caludia + carla
<saidinesh5> (+clementine :P)
<falktx> thanks
<saidinesh5> actually i mean its *really* intutive!! 
<falktx> saidinesh5: you can join the Carla conversation here - http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7165
<saidinesh5> was expecting to at least google for one thing to set things up....
<saidinesh5> falktx: the whole thing is in pyqt right??
<falktx> saidinesh5: yes, except for the carla audio processing, which is C++
<saidinesh5> umm.........
 * saidinesh5 googles for some info now
<saidinesh5> baaah @ please don't advertise this, it's too soon...!!
<falktx> hehe
<falktx> saidinesh5: it is, Carla still needs much love <3
 * saidinesh5 wonders if it would be added to claudia to makke 1 single app
<saidinesh5> was that part of your masterplan falktx ??
<saidinesh5> :P
<falktx> saidinesh5: hey, that could be something...!
<saidinesh5> falktx: :D
 * saidinesh5 will try it out....
<saidinesh5> come to think of it, actually it shouldn't even take much effort ... a couple of hours work
<falktx> yep, but Carla still needs fixing firs
<falktx> *first
<saidinesh5> falktx: you probably need to update this :P http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/index.php/Development
<falktx> hehe, yes
<falktx> saidinesh5: I'm waiting to get network at home first
<falktx> should happen (finally) this weekend
<saidinesh5> Ahh to keep up with the updates? :P
 * saidinesh5 is tryign to get a virtual midi keyboard to work.... something seems to be missing ...
<falktx> saidinesh5: I already worked too much for KXStudio during work hours...
<saidinesh5> Ah.... what do you work as falktx ??
 * falktx recommends 'jack-keyboard'
<falktx> saidinesh5: currently I'm at php -> http://www.eter9.com/
<saidinesh5> Ooo
<falktx> saidinesh5: damn, I've shared the link and I was supposed not to...
<falktx> eeek, this is a public IRC... :(
<saidinesh5> falktx: suggest a virtual instrument that 
<saidinesh5> :-/
<saidinesh5> goes with virtual keyboard
<falktx> saidinesh5: yoshimi ?
<falktx> saidinesh5: install 'klaudia' and launch it. you'll see all synths there
<falktx> klaudia is also my own tool
<saidinesh5> wow
<saidinesh5> but still no sound :(
<falktx> saidinesh5: ah, configure jack first
<falktx> saidinesh5: if you just updated you neeed to reboot
<saidinesh5> falktx: i was able to apply effects to the output of my media player
<falktx> media player output != jack
<falktx> saidinesh5: JACK was updated, so needs a reboot (jack1 -> jack2)
<saidinesh5> ohh lemme check...
<saidinesh5> brb
<saidinesh5> hmm........... something is wrong with the virtual midi keyboard i guess
<saidinesh5> yoshimi seems to be working 
<saidinesh5> with it's own keyboard
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-08
<ScottL> TheMuso, if you haven't germinated the seeds already, do you mind waiting until astraljava and cory resolve an issue?
<TheMuso> ScottL: Not at all, haven't done them yet.
<ScottL> astraljava, i will send an email to cory and cc you  about your concerns about gnome-panel in the desktop seeds
<ScottL> astraljava, when you and cory resolve these concerns can you let TheMuso know so he can germinate the seeds?
<astraljava> ScottL: Oh absolutely. I'll wait for Cory to respond first, though, but will have a look at merging the seed with Xubuntu's. I'm pretty sure Cory has some significant changes to it, though, so we'll see how it goes.
<falktx> hi there
<astraljava> Howdy falktx!
<falktx> hey
<ScottL> hi falktx 
<ScottL> astraljava, there are changes, like the lash->ladish transition, that are planned but i am waiting to update the seeds for these until we make the xfce transition first
<ScottL> i'd like to keep it as simple as possible and not needlessly confuse any issue during this potentially difficult and trying time
<ScottL> astraljava, i think cory might be at home today as well, we should try to PM him at some point and draw him into conversation about the seeds
<astraljava> ScottL: Sounds good. I'll be traveling in about two hours, and for about four hours, so might not be available online until 1800 UTC, or 1300 for you.
<ScottL> astraljava, okay, i'll see if you are about in +6 hours or so and then try to catch cory if he hasn't already
<astraljava> ScottL: Sounds like a plan. :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Any word from Cory?
<astraljava> scott-work: Gonna walk the dog. It also seems that I got some company, so I'll be out soon. But I've got some time if we are all here for a bit at the same moment. If not, I'll read the backlog, and act accordingly over the weekend.
<scott-work> astraljava:  i've tried to query him but apparently he's not been on IRC all morning :(
<astraljava> scott-work: Okay. Well, I can do the merge with our desktop seeds tomorrow, and then I'll push it as it is. When you, Cory and whoever feels like taking part in that discussion, has voiced their opinions on the selections, we can tweak it to perfection, and let Luke know when it's ready.
<astraljava> I'm out for this evening, but depending on how long I'll be, I will have a look at the channel and see if there's been any talk regarding the issue.
<astraljava> So, later.
<ScottL> bassburner, i'm going to look at the website this weekend and makes some decisions for a direction forward
<ScottL> if anyone else is interested in helping please let me know and we can discuss
<ScottL> ailo, are you still available to test alessio's 3.0 -lowlatency kernel?  i should finish my tests this weekend
<ScottL> ailo, also have you made any progress on the documentation?
<astraljava> ScottL: I can participate, but am not a real web person.
<ScottL> should we take bite size chunks and you, holstein, and i can flesh out what we want to document for just a particular topic?
<ScottL> this would make positive progress for us at least and help define some things
<astraljava> Certainly.
<ScottL> astraljava, that would be cool, i'll see if i can find the website again
<ScottL> astraljava, oh, i meant the previous statement for ailo
<astraljava> ScottL: Figured as much. :)
<ScottL> but if you, astraljava, want to help with documentation that would be cool too :)
<ScottL> astraljava, here is the current website demo: http://ubustu.exit66.com/
<astraljava> ScottL: I intend to pay attention to the testing documentation, as agreed in the previous meeting.
<ScottL> that's good :)
<ScottL> that would probably be in the wiki.ubuntu.com documentation, the stuff ailo, holstein, and i are discussing is more user facing and probably in help.ubuntu.com
<astraljava> Uh oh... way too colourful for my tastes. :D
<ScottL> lol
<astraljava> yeah I figured as much, also.
<astraljava> The tweets thingie is great, though.
<astraljava> Some problems reading some texts, that are of the same color than the dots in the background.
<astraljava> Well, not real problems, but they make the font seem sort of messy.
<ScottL> astraljava, those are good points and we should probably notate them somewhere for bassburner 
<ScottL> also:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp#Rough_Site_Map
<astraljava> That's mainly in the bottom, underneath the white block.
<astraljava> Sure, sure.
<ScottL> that last link was just a list of ideas to include with the website, not everything is to be included or viable
<ScottL> we can sort through that and figure out what is most important right now and tenable
<astraljava> Oh, and get the "Our best release yet!" out of there. 11.04 is most likely the worst release ever. Falls behind of Warty, even. And I didn't have sound for Warty. :D
<holstein> ScottL: i dont need to be involved on the site, unless you need something i can help with
<holstein> just put it up there.. looks awesome!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-09
<ScottL> astraljava, why do you think natty is the worst?  i've not had any problems myself
<holstein> its not the best though
<holstein> hardy still has my vote :)
<ScottL> i don't think that natty is the best, just another release although a little leaner than others, but i don't think of it as the worst
<holstein> nah, its not bad at all
<holstein> we needed that kernel
<holstein> the -lowlatency
<holstein> that sucked
<ScottL> agreed
<ScottL> i should do my test this weekend, if it performs as expected i'll start packaging it, and hopefully persia can help get it into the repos
<ScottL> getting the xfce transition sorted i think is the most important at this point though
<holstein> we need that kernel for at least a few more cycles
<holstein> ScottL: im working on installing xubuntu 11.10 right now
<holstein> if i can test that kernel with firewire, let me know how
<ScottL> holstein, oh yeah!  that would be awesome because i don't think it's been tested with firewire yet
<ScottL> use abagoni's /broken ppa and install the kernel
<holstein> im having issues already though
<holstein> we'll see
<astraljava> ScottL: Mostly because of GNOME. It's unstable.
<astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, sorry I came out vague. Nothing from Studio's side made it worse. It's the foundations that suck.
<ScottL> astraljava, really?  you are having problems with gnome in natty?
<ScottL> i decided to resinstall ubuntustudio on my main machine and went to natty
<ScottL> the only issues that i have are sometimes individual applets will not load when logging in, sometimes the trash or the clock or the window list
<astraljava> Yeah, applets are really lousy, both loading, and functioning. Also, launching apps won't often honour options (like gnome-terminal refuses to give the geometry I give it to, but rather decides something of its own).
<ScottL> hmmmm, thta is crappy
<ScottL> i wonder if any of this has to do with the transition to unity
<astraljava> ScottL: No, cause I'm using Classic.
<jussi> astraljava: are you this end of the country today?
<astraljava> jussi: Nope, I'm in JyvÃ¤skylÃ¤ now.
<jussi> ok
<jussi> BBQ here today, hence I asked
<astraljava> Yeah :( Damnit. I might be there next weekend, depending on the packing and moving. Thanks for the invite, though!
<astraljava> ScottL: Also, the locale seems to be totally messed up in GNOME. I have every bit of language-support related thing set to en_US.UTF-8, only my keyboard layout is plain Finnish. Still every once in a while some dialog/window pops up with finnish texts.
<ScottL> i'm getting very disappointed that cory hasn't responded to the email astraljava :(
<ScottL> i'll try poking him in IRC later this morning and see if he's around, i don't think he logged in on friday, i tried to /query him and couldn't
<astraljava> ScottL: He's sometimes very busy, let's give him some time. I'm doing some manual merging right now for the desktop file, and I will push to the branch when I get it done. You guys can pull then, and really start the discussion going (I will participate, of course :)
<ScottL> astraljava, i seem to remember some discussion about the dekstop file with cory but i may be misremembering it because i didn't really understand it
<ScottL> i asked cory if we should be updating the desktop file, his response was no, that doing the other seed would update the desktop seed
<ScottL> it certainly seemed counter intuitive to me, however
<ScottL> astraljava, it might be better if you and cory worked directly as it seems you are more knowledgeable than i
<ScottL> i do have changes i want to make but would rather do them later after the xfce transition is complete
<astraljava> ScottL: I don't understand how other seeds would update the desktop seed, but it's rather easy to revert to an earlier commit if mine turns out to blow the whole thing to hell.
<ScottL> lol
<astraljava> ScottL: But I am really not knowledgeable about the seeds at all.
<ScottL> i already told cory that i expect it to blow up :P
<astraljava> ScottL: I go by what seems intuitive.
<astraljava> ScottL: It most likely will.
<astraljava> ScottL: There are so many GNOME 2 dependant packages, I seriously don't understand how it could be left alone.
<astraljava> But I'm done soon, and will then upload, so you can take a look.
<ScottL> astraljava, i certainly think removing gnome-panel, etc, certainly seems to be the right move
<astraljava> ScottL: That's an absolute must, and I believe many of them are, after all, GNOME 2 is removed from the archives, so how _could_ we depend on them? But granted, I have little knowhow about this migration from 2 -> 3.
<astraljava> Alright gang, revision 1268 of ubuntustudio.oneiric is up in LP. Go fetch, and discuss/modify/publish/whatever. :D I'll be on spuriously from now, will probably head downtown for dinner and some other action. :D
<astraljava> ehh... of course meant sporadically, not spuriously. :D
<astraljava> Surprisingly recalled to comment out lashd, as it breaks the installation nowadays. Of course it's not enough, as we have no ladish packages in the audio seed, but it should work now, unless some packages depend on it.
<astraljava> Oh, and yeah if you want to make more out of the files, look for my nick in the comments, that should give you a better idea of what was changed and why.
<astraljava> That is if you're not used to diff and other development-related tools. I'll of course rip my nick out of there when they're not necessary anymore.
<ScottL> if anyone is interested in testing mudita24 (the improved version of envy24control) i have it built in my /build ppa
<holstein> im having a challenge getting a stable 11.10 install
<astraljava> holstein: That should surprise us... exactly how? :D
<holstein> hehe
<holstein> well, im trying to update
<holstein> upgrade
<holstein> i have some issues getting the broadcom wifi up
<holstein> figured id just upgrade before troubleshooting
<holstein> it takes a *long* time to just apt-get update
<ScottL> oh, i should clarify, mudita24 is built for natty
<ScottL> and it didn't have a .desktop file for it, i made one locally
<holstein> i wiped the natty and maverick installs
<ScottL> holstein, you might start with xbuntu 11.10 first
<holstein> yeah... thats what im working with
<astraljava> ScottL: The source doesn't have one? Crap, it needs to be added to oneiric as well.
<holstein> ScottL: do you have any of the GUI settings applied?
<astraljava> holstein: What did you use as the base for?
<holstein> the xubuntu alpha i know was good
<holstein> the install was fine
<holstein> i dont know why we got rid of the advanced tab in the installer
<holstein> where you get to choose where/if you want GRUB
<astraljava> No idea. I always use the alternate installer, unless I'm doing tests.
<holstein> me too, but i wanted to install from USB, and see it run live before in installed
<charlie-tca> live sessions are broken, aren't they?
<holstein> charlie-tca: i have an early alpha image, and the live session worked
<charlie-tca> Oh
<holstein> im not sure whats going on now though...
<charlie-tca> desktop image removed most of the advanced options in natty
<holstein> is there a bug for that?
<holstein> a wishlist bug?
<charlie-tca> The only way to get them now is using the alternate image, as far as I know
<astraljava> holstein: You can boot the alternate from USB, too. It makes no difference.
<astraljava> Ahh... sorry, didn't read the rest of the line.
<astraljava> Silly me. :D
<holstein> astraljava: last time i tried, it didnt work
<astraljava> holstein: Huh? Really? Never failed on me.
<holstein> astraljava: an alternate installer from USB ?
<charlie-tca> There might be a bunch of wishlist bugs for those things, but I think most were closed as invalid.
<astraljava> holstein: Yes.
<holstein> in 10.04, it failed searching for the install media
<charlie-tca> The standard response is to use the alternate image to have more control
<holstein> astraljava: that was with unet, or the buntu tool
<holstein> what did you use?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Most of the wishlist bugs are being closed as invalid. :D
<astraljava> holstein: I've used both with considerable success.
<holstein> astraljava: since when?
<holstein> post 10.04?
<astraljava> holstein: Yes.
<holstein> i'll try it again then
<holstein> d00d
<holstein> this update is brutal
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> im getting
<holstein> The following packages have unmet dependencies: ubuntustudio-audio : Depends: ubuntustudio-generation but it is not going to be installed
<holstein> E: Broken packages
<holstein> maybe im just late to the party
<holstein> im just going to grab jack and ardour so i can test some things
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-10
<ScottL> holstein, that's what i did, installed xubuntu 11.10 then ardor, hydrogen, and qjackctl
<holstein> yeah... now its not booting
<ScottL> and qjackctl might not have been needed directly as it may have been a dependency of something
<ScottL> holstein, doh, no luck for you man, that really sicks
<ScottL> errr, sucks
<holstein> its OK... i'll get it going 
<persia> ScottL, Were you able to complete your test of -lowlatency?
<ScottL> persia, not last night, we went to my in-law's house (i am helping them with transition to xubuntu)
<ScottL> however, this morning i do expect to complete it as soon as i get a wireless card into my in-law's computer
<persia> No worries.  I just hoped it might be, so I could get to it in my weekend.  Let me know whenever, and I'll try to review it.
<ScottL> persia, i've tested it and it halves the stable latency, i'm going back to in-law's house and having lunch then  i'll start packaging it in ppa
<ScottL> persia, do i need to work on manpage for this?  if so, what is the utility that you suggested before
<persia> As much as I like manpages for everything, kernels don't really need them.
<persia> They are executables, but they should probably never be executed by the user directly.
<persia> http://liw.fi/manpages/ is my current best-practices guide to manpages: it's not a utility, but it lets you draft something quickly and easily.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-02
<len-dt> ailo_, Added two more items to the theme blue print. One to add our own icons for our extra menus which currently use icons from other packages.
<len-dt> They may change or vanish with a package change, we are better to have our own.
<len-dt> Also, I would like to finish fixing the text plymouth theme so it says ubuntu studio instead of just ubuntu.
<ailo_> len-dt: Let's hope you can get the rights to do changes to those directly, so we can get that stuff done soonish. I'm not very desktop orientated myself and prefer to use Gnome over XFCE, so I don't really have a clue about a lot of those things
<ailo_> astraljava: Any way to test if I have rights to upload changes?
<ailo_> astraljava: Or, no. I'm pretty sure I don't have them
<ailo_> Ok, let's see how fast I was today. Went for a 10km run just now. Trying to get under 40 min, but it's not easy :P
<ailo_> Bah, maybe in a few weeks :(
<astraljava> ailo_: Rights to where? LP+bzr?
<astraljava> ailo_: Of course you can try to push, there's no harm in that. If you don't have, bzr will fail and tell you why.
<ailo_> astraljava: I sent an email to Scott about this. Suggesting me and Len get rights.
<ailo_> We should talk about how to proceed. When are we having a meeting?
<astraljava> I still haven't heard from Scott, so don't know yet.
<ailo_> astraljava: Ah, a meeting with Scott. I guess it would be the best
<ailo_> But since he's going to be less active, we need to be able to work independently also
<astraljava> We do still sort of need him for some things. :)
<astraljava> Yeah, but we need to have a chat about that, what he needs to do to enable us working independently.
<ailo_> I do think we have a pretty clear path ahead of us for this cycle. Just that implementing some of the changes might need some considering, but that is not an issue yet. I think for the most part, we don't need Scott other than to have him ok some crucial things
<ailo_> Given we can do the changes directly ourselves
<ailo_> astraljava: As we were talking the other day, and I thought about how to start to do developer documentation, I kind of sketched out what I've interpreted as what US is about. Would you agree with this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation
<ailo_> The page might be missing something, but on the whole, I feel like it could serve as a good starting point for both active developers, as well as future ones
<ailo_> Simple and straightforward, with focus on the actual tasks that need to be done
<len-dt> falktx, thankyou for the fix in jackd yesterday.
<falktx> len-dt: sure, thanks for the report
<ailo_> Woo, I'm not officially an Ubuntu Studio developer
<ailo_> now*
<knome> congrats
<ailo_> How one letter can make such a huge difference :P
<knome> and sorry
<knome> ;)
<ailo_> Thank you for your sympathies
<ailo_> len-dt: I believe you have been made a member as well?
<ailo_> len-dt: Yep. I see you've been added at the launchpad page
<len-dt> ailo_, yes, I am going to work on default settings first to fix the menu.
<len-dt> xfce4.10 changes the catagories in the desktop files.
<falktx_> ailo_: heh? what did I miss?
<ailo_> falktx_: Me and Len got to be members of Ubuntu Studio Development Team, so we can upload changes ourselves
<falktx_> oh, I actually read this wrong
<falktx_> ie:
<falktx_> [20:07] <ailo_> Woo, I'm not officially an Ubuntu Studio developer
<falktx_> *now - so that it becomes:
<falktx_>  Woo, I'm now not officially an Ubuntu Studio developer
<falktx_> damn brain!
<ailo_> Hehe
<ailo_> You thought there was some drama going on
<ailo_> Sorry to dissapoint. Nope, we just wanted to get more dirty with our hands
<falktx_> well, it's good news, so I'm hapy
<falktx_> *happy
<len-dt> LADI has about 5 tools now... and have renamed the desktop files :P
<len-dt> Some of them end up in media (again) and some in accessories.
<len-dt> I am moving the ones in media to audio production and leaving the others where they are.
<len-dt> The name is better than "linux audio configuration" that it used to be, it is more obvious what it is for without starting it.
<len1210> astraljava, I am wondering if xubuntu is having icon problems.
<len1210> I am noticing that xfce-network.directory and xfce-accessories.directory don't seem to be displaying an appropriate icon in the menu.
 * len1210 is fixing things like this in ubuntustudio right now
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-03
<astraljava> len-dt: ochosi is the guy to talk to about that stuff.
<stochastic> Hello everyone
<astraljava> Hi stochastic! LTNS. :)
<Len-nb> astraljava, ok, I'll do that.
<Len-nb> astraljava, I have just pushed new ubuntustudio-default-settings in with fixed menus... now what?
<Len-nb> micahg, ^^ it looks like I talk to you next. It seems you have done the release before.
<astraljava> Len-nb: Yeah, micahg can update the -meta. Thanks!
<micahg> Len-nb: a couple things, first, please do one commit per change, it makes reviewing easier, second, please leave the changelog as UNRELEASED rather than quantal so that other changes can be made on top if necessary
<Len-nb> micahg, Sorry, my first time, I was following what I saw below. I thought I only did one commit.. only ram bzr commit once, but that may not be what you mean
<micahg> Len-nb: right, it should be bzr commit once per change
<micahg> or debcommit in this case
<Len-nb> ok, So for each file change or add or remove then?
<Len-nb> I was following this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadStepByStepInstructions
<micahg> Len-nb: things that would logically be one group can be one commit
<Len-nb> OK
<Len-nb> Its midnight I'm off
<micahg> Len-nb: let's chat tomorrow then
<Len-nb> I'll read the backlog in the morning
<ailo_> Ubuntu Studio Testing email list created https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntustudio-testing
<knome> great
<knome> now create ubuntustudio-bugs in LP and subscribe that to all bugmail instead of -devel ;)
<ailo_> knome: Might as well yes. And people don't need to be allround developers to be helping with bug management
<ailo_> Have to run now, but will look into it
<knome> good :)
<stochastic> Is scott taking a bit of a break right now?  Does anyone know what happened to the push of the new website?
<stochastic> knome, you around?
<ailo_> stochastic: It's being published soon
<ailo_> stochastic: Scott is not being as active this cycle. The people who will be is me, astraljava, len-dt and knome + xubuntu folks
<ailo_> stochastic: actually, it's already published :)
<ailo_> http://ubuntustudio.org/
<stochastic> okay, thanks ailo_ I had checked less than 12hours ago and the old site loaded
<stochastic> Glad to see it's finally up!
<ailo_> I sent an email to Scott about making it public. It'll be interesting to see the response from the community
<ochosi> len-dt: i was pinged by astraljava and you..?
<astraljava> ochosi: re: icons
<ochosi> astraljava: yes?
<ochosi> i'm about to have dinner, but i'll read the backlog and reply in a bit
<astraljava> ochosi: I don't know about it, but len-dt was talking about some problems.
<ailo_> ochosi: I believe len-dt needed some help with replacing the menu icons with ubuntu studio specific icons
<shnatsel> hey guys, I kinda fell out with elementary at the moment, so I'm all yours if you need me.
<ailo_> shnatsel: Hey, what areas are you most interested in? (I haven't really followed)
<shnatsel> ailo_: I used to be a distro architect in elementary, so I usually do all kinds of distro plumbing stuff. Only had experience with GNOME 2/3 based DEs so far.
<shnatsel> I'm fluent with BASH but I don't know any Python or Perl
<shnatsel> I also have experience with seeds and I converted US to using blueprints back in the day...
<ailo_> shnatsel: This is the blueprints for Quantal. misc might be a good place to start
<shnatsel> also did quite some performance research, though much of my work is irrelevant for low-latency environment
<ailo_> First thing that comes to mind is having nautilus handle the desktop, which I think is not happening right now
<ailo_> Nautilus is supposed to be the default file manager, but thunar will be opened instead at times
<ailo_> Feel free to look around and see what you would like to assist with
<shnatsel> well, in GNOME3 the desktop is (finally) split into two parts:
<shnatsel> there's gnome-settings-daemon drawing the picture and Nautilus drawing the folders and stuff
<shnatsel> do you still use desktop-as-a-folder btw?
<ailo_> shnatsel: I have no idea about the desktop part :). Have a dim understanding of gnome, while pretty much nothing about XFCE
<ailo_> len-dt has been doing some work on that, also, the Xubuntu folks are on top of things like that of course
<ailo_> shnatsel: If you do find a task that suits you, please just grab it and add your name to the blueprints. As for adding things to the blueprints, maybe just discuss with someone first.
<ochosi> len-dt: ok, sounds more like packaging. how do you handle your icons atm? i think scott should know...
<ailo_> knome: I seem to have missed something. The links at the download page don't work. I don't know how to add links to those boxes. I only know <a href..
<ailo_> http://ubuntustudio.org/download-ubuntu-studio/
<ailo_> knome: I made href links for now. If you can help me fix that we get the boxes back with the right links, it would be great
<knome> ailo_, i'll check that in a minute
<stochastic> ailo_, is it you that just made the ubuntustudio-testing mailing list?  I'm just thinking that those types of e-mails are exactly what the developer list should see.
<knome> ailo_, page updated
<knome> stochastic, the -testing list was created to avoid flooding the -devel list with automated test results and such
<knome> stochastic, those aren't really developer coordination, and sending them to -devel would, imo, make the real cooperation harder
<knome> ailo_, see how the [lb] tag is used; [lb url=internal/] and [lb urle=http://extern.al/]
<knome> ailo_, and then inside that tag, the button title, and close with [/lb]
<knome> ailo_, (just like <a>, but a bit easier, and handles style automatically
<ailo_> stochastic: We're separating those, making -devel more of a general devel discussion mail list
<ailo_> stochastic: Also, there will soon be a ubuntustudio-bugs mail list
<ailo_> knome: You added those back? They don't work for me
<ailo_> knome: This is the link I get http://ubuntustudio.org/http:/cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.04/release/ubuntustudio-12.04-dvd-amd64.iso.torrent
<ailo_> With urle
<knome> ailo_, i'll recheck then...
<knome> you're right.
<knome> weird
 * knome checks code..
<ailo_> stochastic: The idea is that we will start doing some automated testing not far into the future, and will be using the -testing site for posting and saving the results
<ailo_> -testing list*
<knome> ailo, oops!
<knome> :)
<knome> yeah, it's not as expected..
<knome> ailo, i'll push a fix asap
<knome> i'm getting it fixed by IS in the next 20 mins
<ailo> Nice. Time to hit the spring bed
<knome> hehe, nighty
<knome> ailo, fixed.
<len-dt> ochosi, we seed or depend on elementary-icon-theme and xubuntu-icon-theme.
<len-dt> ochosi, I am seeing that even in precise the icon for accessories and internet are default and not right.
<ochosi> where, in the application menu?
<len-dt> ochosi, the directory files we are using are xfce-*.directory
<len-dt> Yes.
<ochosi> this is how it should look: http://imagebin.org/219362
<ochosi> (and how it looks in xubuntu)
<len-dt> It seems to me when I looked at the xubuntu live cd I found a /usr/share/xubuntu dir with some images in it too.
<len-dt> Ya that is what I expected.
<ochosi> all you see here is from xubuntu-icon-theme aka elementary-xfce
<ochosi> what i did for xubuntu is, i forked elementary-icon-theme before they dropped all DE specific symlinks
<len-dt> Ok I will look around some more. maybe we have a spelling mistake
<ochosi> (pkg-name is xubuntu-icon-theme, icon-theme-name is elementary-xfce)
<ochosi> this is where we currently collect missing icons for quantal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1006416
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006416 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Add missing icons to elementary-xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<len-dt> Ours looks like this: http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/menu.html
<ochosi> then you're most likely using elementary, not elementary-xfce
<ochosi> could you open the appearance dialog in your session?
<ochosi> (in the settings-manager)
<ochosi> and then check what icon-theme you're using
<len-dt> It says elementary Xfce Dark
<ochosi> strange, that should be fine
<ochosi> could you please go to /usr/share/icons and check whether both folders elementary-xfce and elementary-xfce-dark are there?
<len-dt> Hmm, just noticed my education one is bad too.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> and if that all works, i'd like to ask you to clone the icons directly from our github-repo to test whether that works
<len-dt> Ya, they are there
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> you can go to elementary-xfce and to the categories folder
<ochosi> and 16
<len-dt> Yup, I see applications-internet.svg which matches Icon=applications-internet
<ochosi> very strange
<len-dt> applications-science.png which matches Icon=applications-science
<ochosi> yeah and there should be a symlink from -science to -education
<len-dt> they look like two files the same, no link
<ochosi> that would be very odd
<ochosi> anyway, could i ask you to clone (or download and untar) this repo to your ~/.icons folder? https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce
<ochosi> then you might have to switch icon-themes back and forth
<ochosi> then tell me whether it looks better
<len-dt> No change... but I think I found the problem...
<len-dt> The directory file is wrong in the *.menu file :P
<len-dt> These are parts I didn't look at because I wasn't changing them...
<len-dt> ochosi, thank you for all your help.
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> len-dt: well nothing to thank me for then ;)
<ochosi> len-dt: but if you could spread word about that bugreport in case people find missing icons, that'd be great!
<len-dt> Just making me look was worth while.
<len-dt> Ok, I am trying to make sure we create our own icons for any US menus.
<ochosi> what do you mean?
<len-dt> We have some menus that are specific to ubuntustudio that we have being using icons we have seen and liked. SOme from applications.
<len-dt> I would like us to have our own for our own *.directory files
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well you can easily create an icon theme addon for elementary-xfce if you want
<ochosi> all you have to do is set the inherit line in the index.theme file
<len-dt> That would be a good idea, so far they are in pixmaps even though they are pngs
<ochosi> what do you mean exactly?
<ochosi> (pngs are also pixmaps)
<len-dt> /usr/share/pixmaps
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> right
<len-dt> I have called them all ubuntustudio-*.png
<ochosi> well yeah, i think putting them in /usr/share/icons is the cleaner solution
<len-dt> Still learning here this is my second cycle and last was mostly test and complain stuff.
<len-dt> I'm trying to do a bit more this cycle, so making more mistakes too.
<ochosi> that's the normal way of getting involved in something new :)
<len-dt> :)
<ochosi> but anyway, if you need help with gtk-theme or icon-theme feel free to ping me
<len-dt> will do and thanks again. It looks right now...
<ochosi> ok great!
<len-dt> Just checking to make sure there are no more that we don't ship that are wrong.
<len-dt> Science is messed up but there is no *.directory file for that
<len-dt> It looks like a hold over from our Gnome DE days.
<len-dt> That may be the whole problem.
<ochosi> yup
<knome> \o/
<Len-nb> micahg, I have done another update to default settings. It seems there where some leftovers from gnome days. Internet, accessories and education pointed at *.directory files that are not there instead of the xfce ones.
<Len-nb> One fix one commit. Changelog says UNRELEASED.
<Len-nb> This page: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio
<Len-nb> shows me as name and email instead of LP login. I am not sure why, both whoami and launchpad-login are set in bzr.
<micahg> Len-nb: you should have the version there, just UNRELEASED as the suite (instead of quantal)
<micahg> I see this in lynx:   123. By Len Ovens <email address hidden> 16 hours ago
<micahg> looks like an LP bug
<micahg> Len-nb: and you can use the same changelog as long as it's unreleased still
<Len-nb> Anything I did in my own junk dir is fine. Do you want me to fix the changelog then?
<micahg> Len-nb: yeah, go ahead
<Len-nb> OK, I will add my latest to the other and make the whole unreleased.
<micahg> Len-nb: can you file a bug here for your LP issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<Len-nb> OK
<Len-nb> We seem to have an ISO again.
<micahg> Len-nb: I"m wondering about this file: etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus/xfce-applications.menu.original
<micahg> Len-nb: I'm also wondering about the PNGs, are they from SVGs?
<Len-nb> I have removed the *.original
<Len-nb> The pngs have always been pngs
<micahg> ah, yes, I see the removal now
<Len-nb> micahg, how is the changelog?
<micahg> Len-nb: almost, you still have 2 signature lines
<Len-nb> Ok, I was thinking two different dates.
<Len-nb> So just add lines to the bottom then
<micahg> only one of those is allowed (and it'll get updated when I or someone else do dch -r -m before upload)
<Len-nb> OK, so I should use the later time or not worry which
<micahg> doesn't matter
<Len-nb> Ok.. one more up.
<micahg> looks good, thanks
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-04
<ailo> Newer version of qjackctl should be released and available in the repos now
<ailo> astraljava: I started sketching out something for -controls here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioControls
<ailo> It's the outcome of what I did beginning of last year
<ailo> Right now, the only thing that exists is an example app that creates a menu in the app-indicator area
<ailo> What is missing is support for window managers that do not use app-indicator, and having the menu launch windows.
<ailo> 2 windows need to be made: 1. system settings 2. help
<ailo> astraljava: Where do you think the code should be hosted? launchpad? I have it on gitorious right now
<ailo> I had a systems check script last year also, but it needs to be revamped.
<ailo> Also, when we get further into system testing, we could start adding some system tweaks to the -controls for testing
<astraljava> ailo: The privileges would be easier to manage in LP, and it'd provide better bug management etc.
<astraljava> But in the end, it doesn't really matter.
<astraljava> A project can always be added to LP where one tracks bugs and that sort of things. The code doesn't have to be there.
<ailo> astraljava: There is already a ubuntustudio-controls in launchpad. I guess we should just use that then
<ailo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls
<astraljava> ailo: Hmm... cool. Now that Eric's back (he's stochastic, btw.), you guys can discuss whether there's anything in the old codebase that [sh|c]ould be merged. You could create a new series in that project nonetheless.
<ailo> stochastic: Hey. We have planned to create a new ubuntustudio-controls
<ailo> stochastic: I do believe we could reuse setting memory limit, however I wonder if that should be adjusted at each boot (since people tend to upgrade/downgrade RAM). Haven't investigated what problems that setting can cause. 
<ailo> stochastic: I put up some ideas that have been cooking for some while, here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioControls
<ailo> stochastic: There has been, and will be some system testing going on here, where we explore different possible system tweaks. Those that we'd like to have user control over, should end up in -controls
<ailo> Right now, about the only thing I know for sure we want is to have the user be able to administer realtime privilege
<ailo> Would be nice if one could do that for all users, selecting from a list
<ailo> astraljava: len-dt: is there a amd64 version of UbuntuStudio Quantal available? Am I looking at the wrong places?
<ailo> I'm installing using Ubuntu Alternative for now
<astraljava> ailo: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
<astraljava> ailo: Or rather: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/quantal-dvd-amd64.iso
<ailo> Just under my nose :P
<astraljava> URLs can be distracting and confusing. :D
<ailo> hmm, my rt ticket for ubuntustudio-bigs mail list was closed, but I have not got any email about it
<ailo> ubuntustudio-bugs*
<ailo> Maybe it just takes a little while
<astraljava> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntustudio-bugs
<ailo> astraljava: That's weird. They haven't sent me the admin info. Damn, I must have given them the wrong email :(
<ailo> knome: Do you know who to contact about that?
<ailo> I must have given them kaj.ailomaa@mousike.com instead of kaj.ailomaa@mousike.me
<astraljava> Ubuntustudio-bugs list run by kaj.ailomaa at mousike.com
<astraljava> ailo: I'd file another RT ticket of it. :)
<ailo> This is a mess
<ailo> Now there are two tickets with the same name
<ailo> I can't seem to delete them either
<ailo> to <be able to>
<ailo> I'm sure someone will be happy dealing with my tickets :(
<astraljava> Oh but you can do what knome does. Go to #canonical-sysadmin and start nagging at them. :D
<ailo> That sounds fun
<astraljava> knome doesn't really get customer service. That's also a big part of why he has no customers. *grin*
<ailo> Nice. They reset the admin details already
<astraljava> That wasn't too hard.
<ailo> Only no admin details have been sent to me yet :(
<ailo> Well, I'll sort it out
<len-dt> ailo, yesterdays ISO doesn't install you may want to wait a few hours for the new one.
<knome> astraljava, ouch. :)
<len-dt> ailo, it does boot ok on live and everything looks normal.
<len-dt> ailo, I got email on the ubunquity crash bug: This bug is a duplicate of bug 1020574
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020574 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "SystemError: Broken pipe while installing language packs" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020574
<ailo> len-dt: I'll just install using the alternate. Will do tomorrow. Need to set up a quantal system for development, etc.
<ailo> The rt ticket is just getting messier by the minute
<ailo> Now they tell me they sent me an email, and that my email server has accepted it, which was the correct one. Still, no email
<ailo> I even restored deleted mail from 7 days back and did thorough searches
<astraljava> ailo: Did you check the spam filters?
<ailo> astraljava: Yeah. Nada
<len-dt> ailo, there is a new ISO today, I'll try that.
<len-dt> There were a lot of updates in yesterdays ISO, over 15% new stuff from the last good one.
<len-dt> less than half  today.
<len-dt> Our ISO seems to have gotten just a bit smaller.
<ailo> Is it leaking?
<ailo> Maybe it's melting in the summer heat
<len-dt> :)
<len-dt> I just hope it installs
<ailo> I'm going to sleep. Went for a 100km bicycle ride today. Came home and looked in the mirror. White salt traces all over, and dead mosquitos on my forehead
<ailo> Insane sport
<len-dt> We used to look like mosquito fur... 
 * len-dt rode through them at 100k/h on a harley
<ailo> hehe
<ailo> I was at around 60km/h at best, downhill. 
<len-dt> They seem to rise just at sunset
<ailo> Yeah, all though it wasn't really time for it yet. And not that many. Had some bees and flies bouncing of my teeth sometimes
<ailo> Have to remember to keep the mouth somewhat closed
<ailo> I sometimes get one in the throat
<len-dt> Bees are ok, wasps are not.
<ailo> I got one down my throat a couple of years ago
<ailo> It left its stinger in the opening of the throat
<len-dt> They were as surprised as you...
<ailo> Had to carve it out with my nail
<ailo> Probably. Accidents happen
<len-dt> I haven't done so bad, got one up my sleeve, 5 stings at the elbow.
<ailo> Still, not very comfortable
<len-dt> I must have looked pretty funny slapping at my arm and trying to get my jacket off.
<ailo> ok, GN then :)
<len-dt> GN
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-05
<len-dt> ubiquity still crashes today too.
<Len-nb> micahg, ubuntustudio-look recommends plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio, but that doesn't seem to exist.
<Len-nb> There is a package by that name, but all it has in it is an empty debian directory
<Len-nb> ubuntustudio-look seems to have the whole plymouth theme inside anyway, can I safely remove that recommends?
<Len-nb> or maybe it should be a replaces or conflicts.
<Len-nb> synaptic shows a plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio installed (precise) with all the files the look package has.
<astraljava> Len-nb: The bzr branch indeed seems empty.
<Len-nb> But there is such a package
<Len-nb> And we install it
<Len-nb> Where is it coming from?
<Len-nb> The look package has not changed since march, but precise shows a lot less files installed than should be in the package.
<Len-nb> astraljava, it also recomends ubuntustudio-wallpapers
<Len-nb> But I can't find the branch for that at all.
<Len-nb> And the look package seems to have all the files in it that the wallpapers package does
<Len-nb> micahg, astraljava I have sent a message on the list to Scott (I think he was the last one to hit it) asking what his intent was.
<Len-nb> To break up one package into smaller ones or make one package do all.
<Len-nb> I was going to add a text plymouth theme that says ubuntustudio to replace the fallback that just says ubuntu.
 * Len-nb has a machine that actually gets the text one.
<Len-nb> I will wait on my fix until the recommends/replaces/conflicts are figured out. So I can commit that fix first.
<Len-nb> astraljava, One thing I do see is that all three installed packages are the same version.
<Len-nb> The install scripts in the look package are named for the packages... That is the look package has a plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio.install script as well as a ubuntustudio-wallpapers.install script.
<Len-nb> Thats it for me tonight...
<ailo> Got ubuntustudio-bugs details before
<ailo> Wonder if launchpad has a maximum limit for bug report size?
<ailo> I'm waiting until I can confirm everything is working. Then I'll add people to the ubuntustudio-bugs group and make an announcement
<astraljava> ailo: Cool!
<astraljava> len-dt: Yeah that's a bit of a mystery. I'll look into it once I'm on my Studio desktop, apparently I've forgotten to import my keys on this laptop.
<len-dt> astraljava, it's like many things, something got started and not finished. It is pretty easy to forget something.
<astraljava> len-dt: Yeah but that branch was created already in '09. :D
<len-dt> I think it used to just tie other packages together, but now has everything inside... or maybe it is in the middle of being split into other packages..
<len-dt> If Scott tells us which way he was going we can finish it.
<ailo> knome: I can't get bug notifications to be forwarded to the mail list. 1. The bugs are created in: https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio. 2. https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-bugs is a subscriber. 3. Team contact email for ubuntustudio-bugs team is: ubuntustudio-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com 4. I have already confirmed and approved everything between the bug team and the mail list, but seems like nothing is being forwarded, either to th
<ailo> Maybe it just takes a while, I don't know
<ailo> Launchpad seems to update slowly
<ailo> I have misunderstood something
<ailo> Xubuntu subscribes to Ubuntu bugs?
<ailo> I see that the Xubuntu-bugs mail list has no mail yet
<ailo> So far, it seems to me that bugs subscribed by a team will be sent directly to the team members
<ailo> And thus, it is up to each member to filter the email
<ailo> Still, it would be nice if the mail could just be redirected to the mail list directly
<ailo> astraljava: I'm starting to wonder about what teams there are out there, and what would be a good hierarchy for them
<ailo> Seems like the UbuntuStudio team is not connected with anything, while it has a lot of members
<ailo> Some of the things we do should be open for anyone, like testing, and bug management
<ailo> Might as well connect it all, and lead new people into development more easily
<ailo> At least we should put them all down somewhere, so people can find them
<ailo> knome: You think the only way to send the bug reports to the mail list is to create an account only for that?
<ailo> I mean, to use that to subscribe to the bug reports, and then forward to the mail list
<ailo> The mail list needs to be properly configured to have replies work the way they are supposed to
<ailo> I might be missing something here, so I won't continue on that thread
<astraljava> ailo: That's a good point. I remember one list was configured in a way that reply-to-list didn't work.
<astraljava> ailo: I also looked at ~ubuntustudio, and it didn't really seem to do much, just a random open team.
<ailo> astraljava: Would be good to add some info to that page, and make it easier for people to find ways to help out
<ailo> astraljava: If you like, I can help with that. I'd like to go through all teams, and see how we could best use them
<astraljava> Hmm... I'm not sure what that team should help out with, actually. Contributor team is ~ubuntustudio-dev.
<ailo> I think it's just a good starting point.
<ailo> For new people
<ailo> But right now, it isn't providing any info. Like links to web pages, or other teams
<astraljava> True. But then again, aren't the wiki-pages more of the informational nature?
<ailo> I'm working on those as well
<ailo> The tools we need, we can use. The tools we don't need, I guess we should think about shutting down. For now, I'm still investigating Launchpad teams/projects to see how things work
<ailo> astraljava: I just wish I could do some formatting for the text, is it possible? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-bugs
<astraljava> ailo: It's very valuable work, don't get me wrong. We should indeed review what we can and what we will be using, and for which purpose.
<astraljava> ailo: I don't know, really. I don't see where you could even modify the overview text for starters.
<ailo> That's the only thing that bugs me. It isn't fun to read that small text
<ailo> I think perhaps only the launchpad mail list is good for subcribing to bugs. I'm testing that now
<astraljava> ailo: Maybe you should ask on #ubuntu-bugs, cause the similar team ~ubuntu-bugs gets mail to ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com.
<ailo> good idea
<astraljava> ailo: True that, didn't think properly.
<ailo> Doesn't seem to work with the mail list either. 
<ailo> I mean the launchpad one
<astraljava> hrm... have you asked on #launchpad yet=
<astraljava> = == ?
<ailo> Yes, but I only get, why?
<ailo> astraljava: Actually, it is working now
<ailo> But, for some reason I wasn't getting duplicate bug reports
<ailo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntustudio-bugs/2012-July/thread.html
<astraljava> Hmm... wonder why.
<ailo> I had misunderstood. Thought they were coming from launchpad, but instead, I did have bounces@canonical.com in the headers
<ailo> So, it is working as it should
<ailo> Only, now the launchpad guys think it's evil to do this, cause it might help leak personal email adresses
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> Oh?
<ailo> Well, it's not launchpad specific. Their problem is with the fact that it is a public mail list, etc
<astraljava> Oh, and they don't like that the bug reporter email gets out there due that mailing list?
<ailo> Yeah. But I could agree on one thing. If you become a member of a team, you'd like to get email automatically
<ailo> Only, you'll need to filter it yourself
<ailo> For Ubuntu Studio bug reports, there's a header good for that: X-launchpad-bug: product=ubuntustudio;
<ailo> Haven't found one that is team specific
<ailo> As far as I can see, the only thing that gets included on the mail list, compared to any other mail list, is people's launchpad ID's if they choose to send a mail from Launchpad directly
<ailo> But that doesn't really do any harm anyway
<ailo> I do believe however, that now all launchpad emails sent to this mail list will be accepted, and I can't seem to find where I can change filtering :(
<astraljava> You can probably do that on https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admin/ubuntustudio-bugs/general, if you were given the password for that.
<ailo> astraljava: Nope. When I sent the first email from Launchpad, i created some sort of filter. But where is it now, so I can edit it?
<ailo> Found it
<astraljava> Where? I'm not sure I understood correctly what you are referring to.
<ailo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admin/ubuntustudio-bugs/privacy/sender
<ailo> non-member filters
<ailo> Well, it's probably ok for now. Need to go. Another day tomorrow
<astraljava> Sure, thanks! :)
<ailo> Seems like I didn't go after all
<ailo> knome: I can't see how a mail list on lists.ubuntu.com can be used wisely for bug reports. The sender is always the person who makes the bug comment, and for that to be accepted to the mail list, you need to make each sender a subscribed member, which is impossible. 
<ailo> Neither launchpad or the mailman seems to provide enough tools to filter the messages in such a way, that it becomes possible
<ailo> I mean to get email sent to the mail list, as well as posting it back, without any trouble
<ailo> If one could at least filter by headers
<astraljava> ailo: What is it that you want to achieve, really? I'm having a bit of trouble decyphering. :)
<ailo> astraljava: The idea was to set up a ubuntustudio-bugs mail list, and we'd need to redirect bug notices from the ubuntustudio project paget at launchpad to this mail list. There are blueprints about this, and also, knome suggested (why I'm asking him).
<ailo> Another blueprint was to create a ubuntustudio-bug team
<ailo> Both have been created, but I can't seem to find a way to make the bug traffic work between the project and the mail list
<ailo> Actually, I just realized
<ailo> No. Cause the sender is always the bug reporter
<ailo> That's where the problem lies
<ailo> Or, the sender is always the one commenting the but
<ailo> bug*
<ailo> Er, no. The sender is bounces@canonical.com, aha
<len-dt> That guy seems to be all over the place. wonder who named him/her bounces?
<ailo> Another problem is that if you're the reporter/commenter/member of a team, you get email from launchpad directly as well
<ailo> Would be great to just get it from the mail list
<len-dt> ailo, you need two teams. A one member team that gets all the bug mail and a team with the members in it.
<astraljava> ailo: I don't think that's a big problem. If someone is really interested in getting all the bug mail, [s]he'll find a way to drop the duplicates.
<ailo> len-dt: I don't follow. There's a project where the bugs are created. Those are sent to a team called ubuntustudio-bugs
<len-dt> The one member team would forward mail to the second team as from itself and forward members mail back as itself.
<astraljava> len-dt: That's getting a bit complicated, IMHO.
<len-dt> ubuntustudio-bugs should have one member. That member is fake and just forwards mail to a mail list as from them selves.
<astraljava> ailo: Also, I'm sorry to notice it now when it's too late. But the naming convention was going towards ubuntu-studio-
<astraljava> *
<ailo> astraljava: Well, I followed the naming in the packages. Didn't realize until later
<astraljava> Don't take this as critisicm towards you. We should have paid more attention.
<ailo> Doesn't really matter too much I think
<astraljava> At some point there was meaning to turn the IRC rooms as such, too. But the IRCC is... Oh hi jussi!
<ailo> len-dt: The problem is that even if you are not a member of any team, you'll get bug mail from launchpad, if you commented
<ailo> Or reported
<ailo> Unless you specifically unsubscribed
<ailo> Launchpad makes it that you only get one mail from them though
<len-dt> But if you reply to the list, then it would go to LP as from the list not the user.
<ailo> So, if you're in three teams that all get the same mail, they only send you one
<ailo> The reply-to in headers is set with the bug adress, yes
<ailo> There's more confusion for me as well. I think my email service is deleting duplicate mails or something
<len-dt> ailo, some do.
 * len-dt didn't know scott was on... 
<len-dt> ailo, I don't seem to be getting any dupes
<len-dt> Maybe I am not on the list though
<ailo> len-dt: I'm the only one on the list so far
<ailo> ubuntustudio-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<ailo> I'm doing ridiculous amounts of testing with a bug report
<len-dt> Ya I can see that.
<len-dt> There is a new ISO today, but Bug 1020574 is not shown as fixed yet so it probably still won't install
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020574 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "SystemError: Broken pipe while installing language packs" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020574
<ailo> I'll soon create my own project if this doesn't work, and continue playing with the mail list :P
<ailo> Hoping this last one will be ok
<ailo> len-dt: But I guess the ubuntustudio-bugs team could just as well be kept as a dummy team, just for forwarding bugs
<ailo> As you proposed
<ailo> I give up for today. And will set up a dummy project to do further testing, if nessecary
<ailo> I think Kubuntu has a working setup. I'll ask them tomorrow
<len-dt> ailo, astraljava, looking at the change logs on ubuntustudio-look, it appears this package acts as three packages. And is supposed to be the way it is. 
<len-dt> So I guess I can just add the text plymouth theme as is.
<ailo> I really have no idea about those packages, and would prefer to be ignorant :)
<len-dt> I can see why...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-06
<Len-nb> micahg, when you are ready to do some releasing, ubuntustudio-look is also been updated.
<Len-nb> s/is/has
<micahg> Len-nb: sorry, probably not going to happen before the weekend
<Len-nb> micahg, no hurry. Some of this was ready last cycle, just wanted to make sure it got done this time.
<Len-nb> ailo, re -default-settings, The changes I made to the menu(s) is backport-able. That is it works with precise too. I left precise things in there. It corrects the accessory/networking icons and moves more stuff out of media player (like the extra mixers)
<Len-nb> These are things reported as bugs in precise.
<ailo> Len-nb: Not sure if we should backport of do stable update
<ailo> I've never actually had a look at the backport procedure before, and still have to get how it works properly
<ailo> Stable update should update the package, and the next LTS release (12.04.1) should include it
<ailo> qjackctl is now backported, but I haven't got it installed yet. Haven't had time to look
<Len-nb> ailo, how do we make sure the change goes in for that?
<ailo> Len-nb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ailo> backporting doesn't seem like the best way to go, when fixing bugs
<micahg> ailo: Len-nb: bugs should be SRUd, features backported
<Len-nb> micahg, ok I'll wait till it tested in quantal. I'll take the package and test it against a new precise install to make sure there is no regression. Then I can SRU it.
<jussi> astraljava: Im not on the ircc...
<micahg> anymore...
<micahg> or were you never?  just an admin
<jussi> micahg: anymore
<jussi> I was for a long time
<knome> ailo, i'm not exactly proposing to create a -bugs list
<knome> ailo, just the LP team; those who are in that team, will get bugmail
<knome> ailo, (US bugmail isn't sent to any list atm either)
<micahg> please make bugmail opt in
 * micahg gets enough already...
<knome> micahg, that's what i'm after too :)
<knome> i'm currently just filtering it away, but i could do without it
<astraljava> jussi: But you are still attending to their meetings.
<astraljava> attending their*?
<ailo> I should probably just get the ubuntustudio-bugs mail list deleted. Even so, is it possible to make the bug mail from a launchpad project only be directed to one group?
<ailo> one team, I mean..
<ailo> filtering seems to be required in any case
<astraljava> ailo: Did you talk to the Kubuntu people, yet? I think it's a good idea to have a separate bugmail list, as you can see, many people want bugmail as opt-in rather than how it's now, on the -devel list.
<ailo> astraljava: We don't have bugmail in the -devel list? I think, only the build notices
<ailo> I'll talk with kubuntu folks and see how they do it
<astraljava> ailo: Not all of it, no. But some, and I assumed many people didn't want any of it.
<ailo> I can't find any 6 months back. There's just the build failures. Those could be redirected elsewhere, perhaps
<astraljava> ailo: Bugs filed against the project, for instance.
<astraljava> "You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Studio Development Team, which is the registrant for Ubuntu Studio."
<ailo> astraljava: I think there's no way of changing that, unless we remove bug management from the Ubuntu Studio team to the ubuntustudio-bugs team
<ailo> Or, no
<ailo> If we create a project called Ubuntu Studio Bugs, and have the team be it's admin
<ailo> And have the bug reporting take place there
<ailo> I would suspect that is what it would take
<astraljava> Ok. Well, maybe that's not such a big issue, I suppose bugs aren't filed against the project that often.
<knome> no, not really
<knome> and when they are, it's not too bad if it ends to the -devel list :)
<ailo> This part of the header is probably the best way to filter Ubuntu Studio specific bugs: "X-launchpad-bug: product=ubuntustudio;"
<knome> i use X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale
<len-dt> Bug 1020574, is fixed we may get an installable ISO today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020574 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "SystemError: Broken pipe while installing language packs" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020574
<len-dt> scott-work, greetings. Two menu fixes are in. The mixers have been moved, and we now point to the right *.directory files for xfce
<scott-work> len-dt: awesome! thank you :)
<scott-work> i want to tell you that i am amazed and appreciate the involvement i see from you, ailo, and astraljava
<scott-work> i think it's bloody amazing!
<len-dt> scott-work, no problem. I would like to seed/include qmidiroute which allows splitting keyboards etc. At least one user has asked for this
<len-dt> and I can't find anything we have that does that
<len-dt> I haven't heard any objections but thought I should pass it by you
<len-dt> Also changing taskmanager to system monitor.
<len-dt> scott-work, system manager seems to give a better representation of memory used by an application.
<len-dt> If these don't bother you, I'll do it.
<scott-work> len-dt: i don't see any problems, but would you mind posting to the mailing list just to ask for a more general opinion?
<astraljava> scott-work: I haven't done anything, it's the two lads here who run the show nowadays. :)
<len-dt> scott-work, will do.
<scott-work> ailo: you still want ubuntustudio-dev to invite the ubuntustudio-bugteam, correct?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-07
<len-dt> For those interested... we have an installable ISO once again.
<ailo> len-dt: Nice
<len-dt> ailo, I left email on the list asking about qmidiroute and system monitor.
<len-dt> Scott wants me to find out what others thnk.
<ailo> len-dt: Right. I think it's a good thing to put things up on the email list by default. I should probably do that also, more. But, I suspect, not many will have opinions, and the ones who do, aren't ready to help.
<ailo> But, that doesn't mean some good ideas come out of it
<ailo> Which is always good
<len-dt> I figure to wait till next week and if there are no real big complaints just do it.
<len-dt> This is a cycle to try things out.
<ailo> Sounds like a plan
<ailo> Yep, anything can always be returned back to previous state
<len-dt> Any other apps we should be adding?
<ailo> len-dt: The only thing that comes to mind, that bothers me, is automatic updates
<ailo> If they are automatic
<len-dt> ailo, is that adding or removing?
<ailo> They always used to be, I think
<ailo> There are two things actually
<ailo> No desktop sounds, and no automatic updates
<ailo> If it's a pro multimedia system, you don't want desktop sounds when you're booting into a PA
<ailo> No sound at all, unless you make it
<len-dt> There are no desktop sounds right now.
<ailo> Ok, good
<ailo> I don't really know that stuff too well. Not testing the desktop enough, since I prefer to use Gnome3
<len-dt> I am not sure why... it looks like PA has them turned on.
<ailo> Oh, sorry
<ailo> I meant like a PA system
<ailo> Or studio monitors, or whatever
<len-dt> There must be a setting that is tured off.
<len-dt> Or maybe there is just no sounds installed.
<ailo> The desktop should initialize, and then stay the same for whatever duration you use it. No notices, no desktop sounds, no nothing. I think that is the best default really
<len-dt> ailo, it is in "Appearance"
<len-dt> enable event sounds is deselected by default as I did not turn it off.
<len-dt> We do get notices by default
<ailo> +1 from me
<ailo> How about automatic updates? I think I had to turn that off?
<len-dt> Ya, it is turned on by default... audio mode turns of cron and friends though.
<ailo> I still think that the default "mode" should be good enough as it is.
<ailo> If it isn't, it's because of HW problems, in which case, you need troubleshooting
<len-dt> So what would you do about updates?
<ailo> I still don't see any reason to have a mode for audio, since most people don't need one, if the desktop is rightly configured
<ailo> I think updates should be turned off by default
<ailo> That is selectable during alternate install. I guess with ubiquity, there's no option, so it needs to be set by us
<ailo> The last thing you want in the middle of a live session is a window pop up
<len-dt> Do we want people to update at all, if so we should make the way to do so obvious.
<len-dt> I can understand that, right now it is just a tray icon.
<ailo> I think we should recommend for people to update at their own will. My own personal view is that, if it isn't broken, don't fix it
<len-dt> I was thinking that might make sense. I think holstein  would agree.
<ailo> There are security updates, etc, but those don't really concern pro audio users, generally
<ailo> More so, server admins
<ailo> I have the same philosophy with Windows, and it's done me good for many years
<len-dt> How about jockey
<len-dt> aka check for new hardware drivers.
<ailo> That's different, I think, since it's more about setting up the system, than maintaining it
<ailo> How is it, if you don't install drivers? I think it won't reappear?
<len-dt> When would it run? Right after an update? or when something is plugged in (USB etc)
<ailo> I'd need to check what it does. I usually always install the one driver I need: nvidia
<len-dt> My card is too old... I have to use the free one. Flakey as it is.
<ailo> As a Vulcan would say, logic dictates, that it should only run when discovering new HW, and the user has yet not declined to install drivers
<len-dt> Ubuntu tries to work every where all the time and catch things missed by logic...
<ailo> It would make bad sense for Ubuntu to try to force proprietary drivers on people who decline them, but I haven't tried not installing them, so
<len-dt> ailo, I think the next time someone asks how to turn off PA I will point them at the "session and startup menu" unselect PA and logout/in and be happy
<ailo> len-dt: Did you try it yet? I guess that should take care of it :). I remember removing PA was not easy back in the day
<len-dt> ailo, do you know where xchat stores it's default config?
<ailo> len-dt: .xchat?
<ailo> Or .xchat2, or something like that
<ailo> I don't use it anymore. Switched to irssi
<len-dt> It puts it there after you run it at least once.
<len-dt> I need to know where it gets it's default from.
<ailo> len-dt: ~/.xchat2
<len-dt> So on first start up the user can be connected #ubuntustudio as well as ubuntu
<ailo> I always keep my persisten folders on a separate partition, and create symbolic links to the home dir, replacing some of the standard folders
<ailo> .xchat2 was one of those, over a few installs
<ailo> Kept the settings
<len-dt> That makes sense.
<ailo> I don't like saving the whole home dir, just the folders I want
<ailo> I use a script to set it up
<ailo> for every folder in this dir, rm if exists, and add symbolic link
<ailo> etc
<len-dt> I was thinking about our ISO. One of the things we wanted to do was have ubuntustudio as one of the defaults when the user first uses it.
<len-dt> I guess we could add a .xchat2 to /etc/skel/
<ailo> len-dt: I like that idea
<ailo> Would be good to add a couple of channels
<ailo> At least #ubuntustudio
<len-dt> I don't want all queries to come there... lots of stuff is not studio specific
<ailo> len-dt: True. There should be both #ubuntu and #xubuntu
<len-dt> If we added it to skel we could have the server box not come up and the channel box not come up too.
<len-dt> Just auto connect.
<ailo> len-dt: There has been talk of an intro for a while. Would be enough with a link on the desktop to a wiki page
<ailo> Something that helps the user find all the channels, all the web pages
<len-dt> The menu has help buttons (for xfce) we could copy those. and put the desktop file on the desktop.
<len-dt> All they do is point to a web page.
<len-dt> In our case the web page isnt there.
<ailo> We just need to create it. 
<len-dt> That would be a bug...
<len-dt> Can we take part of the web docs we have and add it to the ISO?
<len-dt> Even point it at the wiki for now.
<len-dt> There should be something that tells firefox what to do with a irc url
<len-dt> right now it goes to some web interface... but freenode won't accept it so the user has to login wtice
<len-dt> s/wtice/twice/
<kubotu> len-dt meant: "right now it goes to some web interface... but freenode won't accept it so the user has to login twice"
<ailo> len-dt: Good idea
<ailo> Let's add it to the blueprints. I can knock it out
<holstein> http://ubuntustudio.org/ looks awesome!
<holstein> thanks to all who helped make that happen!!
<len-dt> ailo, do remember what the bug number was for qjackctl crashing jack on stop?
<len-dt> Some one has flagged it as a new bug... needs to be marked as dup
<ailo> len-dt: Bug #956438 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438
<ailo> The title could be changed
<ailo> I guess, since it's a jackdbus bug
<len-dt> The new one is Bug 1022003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022003 in jack-audio-connection-kit (Ubuntu) "Jack Crashes When Clicking Stop Button in QjackCtl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022003
<ailo> Sounds like the same deal then
<len-dt> is it the same version of jack 1.9.8?
<ailo> I don't think jack has been updated
<len-dt> Ya, it looks like the same stack trace too.
<len-dt> I have duped it. It is already marked as affecting jackd2
<len-dt> Ive added it the bugs I am watching so I will be able to find it easier another time.
<ailo> In cases like this it would be good to have it subscribed to a team and/or mail list
<len-dt> holstein, I don't expect an answer right now... but when you have time ;-) I need a list of IRC channels you direct people to most often.
<len-dt> holstein, I want to add some of them to xchat.
<len-dt> ailo, It looks like we are already subscribed.
<len-dt> Notified of all changes
<len-dt>     Artem
<len-dt>     Kaj Ailomaa
<len-dt>     Ubuntu Studio Dev...Remove
<len-dt> s/remove//
<kubotu> len-dt: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
<holstein> len-dt: #opensourcemusicans aint going anywhere anytime soon... thats where i send folks
<holstein> also, maybe #xubuntu ?
<holstein> other than that, sometimes the channels for the specific apps.. if its video related, and i just have no idea where to send them
<len-dt> holstein, thanks. I think those are the good ones (along with #ubuntu) to add as default to xchat.
<len-dt> ailo, it looks like xfce4-about can not be reconfigured to have other information in it.ls
<len-dt> We would have to make a web page in a normal browser.
<len-dt> ailo, there is another email on the list. I am thinking to change the URL from our help button to point at our website for now. It would be better than a file not found error.
<len-dt> In the long run there should be some help included on disk from the ISO install for those who don't use a net connect.
<ailo> len-dt: I think we should try to do a SRU for that
<ailo> Add a html page to the ISO
<ailo> Maybe also add a link to the desktop
<len-dt> ailo, we have other problems too, xfbrowser4 no longer exists.
<len-dt> we would need to split -default-settings into a precise branch
<len-dt> xfbowser4 was a part of the xfce-utils and is gone. The sugested workaround (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8642) is to use exo-open --launch WebBrowser 
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 8642 in General "Use 'exo-open' instead of 'xfbrowser4' (and fix argument handling) for compability with Xfce 4.9+" [Major,New]
<len-dt> If this works for precise as well we can still use one branch
<len-dt> ailo, Exec=exo-open http://ubuntustudio.org/ seems to work in precise. I will try it in Quantal too.
<len-dt> might be better to use Exec=exo-open --launch WebBrowser http://ubuntustudio.org/
<len-dt> That way when we switch to a file it will still work.
<len-dt> Ok, I have pushed this change.
<len-dt> ailo,  I am not sure which package would/should hold the doc/help files.
<ailo> len-dt: Perhaps ubuntustudio-settings? Something very basic anyway
<ailo> Hmm, or maybe ubuntustudio-desktop, since you won't be needing it otherwise?
<len-dt> ailo, should we have a -doc package?
<ailo> len-dt: I don't know. There's always the web site, and for this particular file, since it will only be obviously reachable from a Ubuntu Studio desktop, I think it should be included with ubuntustudio-desktop
<ailo> I'm using a video editor to make a video pretty much for the first time. Created and uploaded a video to youtube
<ailo> With openshot
<ailo> Really handy for that type of thin
<ailo> I have some ideas for further docs on this
<ailo> workflows for bands, etc
<len-dt> ailo, ok, I guess, the only thing to consider is that -desktop is, so far as I know, just a meta. No files.
<len-dt> ailo, looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev, I don't see a ubuntustudio-desktop.
<len-dt> maybe you are thinking of the file in seeds
<len-dt> ailo, what is the url for your video?
<ailo> len-dt: Ah, ok. Didn't realize that.
<ailo> Well, ubuntustudio-settings would be my second choice
<len-dt> ailo, that works
<ailo> len-dt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWVmRekeCUQ&feature=plcp
<ailo> Just trying it out. Hopefully we'll be having lots to post in the coming months with the band. I'm setting up all the social channels for it right now
<ailo> I did the artwork on GIMP just before too
<ailo> Not very original, but I was pretty happy with how it came out
<ailo> Considering I didn't put that much time into it
<len-dt> ailo, not much video? I have sound and the one still.
<ailo> Yeah, I didn't have any videos to use, but I just wanted to learn how to put up music on youtube
<ailo> We'll be recording videos too later on, but that will have to come last more or less
<len-dt> Well that worked then
<ailo> That's really why I've been pretty busy lately. I need to finish up coding the tools we use this week. Only after 2-3 weeks ahead will I be able to be more agressive with US development
<len-dt> I'll try and pick up any little fixs I can find.
<len-dt> ailo, I should, I guess, workout a publishing menu item/submenu any odeas what apps to put in it?
<len-dt> s/odeas/ideas
<ailo> len-dt: We should discuss adding one or both of scribus and calibre to the seeds
<ailo> libroffice writer should go there too
<len-dt> I can add both to the menu, only what is installed will show up.
<ailo> I'd need to do some research on what else
<ailo> len-dt: Ok, sounds good
<len-dt> it is a pretty new idea
<len-dt> lyx will go in there
<len-dt> ailo, I think Scott will need to give some input in this as it is mostly his vision. I am just thinking to do a little prep work...
<ailo> len-dt: Agreed
<len-dt> I want to wait till the current -settings is SRUed before adding that though.
<len-dt> ailo, I would like to add to each of our "workflow" menus a software center item that shows likely extra packages a user might want to add... call them supported rather than shipped.
<ailo> len-dt: Yes. I have thought about that too
<ailo> For people who only use that to install stuff, they won't find Ubuntu Studio otherwise
<ailo> We still have a problem with realtime privilege, but perhaps we can SRU that too, since the current one is not doing anything useful
<ailo> Sorry, I was talking about using -controls for that
<ailo> Or, I meant to say we should use -controls for that
<len-dt> OK
<len-dt> ailo, software center does not show meta packages at all... it may be possible to put something on the command line to fix that though.
<len-dt> But if I open SOftware Center the only ubuntustudio package that shows up is -controls
<len-dt> It is _not_ like synaptic
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-08
<len-dt> ailo, automatic updates... What we turn off in xfce settings only turns off the notification of updates, the actual net traffic to find out if there are any updates still happens so long as cron/anacron is running.
<len-dt> ailo, xchat is now connected to ubuntustudio, ubuntu, #opensourcemusicans and #xubuntu
<knome> len-dt, automatically? humm.
<len-dt> knome, which comment were you commenting on?
<knome> len-dt, xchat being connected
<ailo> len-dt: We should turn off the updates all together, wherever it's done.
<len-dt> xchat dosen't start automatically.
<knome> yes, nontheless. i'm not completely sure about opening with #xubuntu, still
<len-dt> ailo, cron does that and other things
<len-dt> Ok, not sure where to go with it then.
<ailo> len-dt: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic
<ailo> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
<ailo> Should be "0"
<ailo> Should be adjustable from the update manager
<ailo> If not adjustable from any gui that is preinstalled, we might need to add that to -controls
<ailo> There are the other options too
<ailo> All of them should be "0"
<ailo> If that doesn't take care of it, then I don't know
<len-dt> from the update manager settings in the updates tab, it can be set to never.
<ailo> len-dt: Sounds good.
<len-dt> (also daily, weekly etc.
<ailo> We should just make 0 default, and let the user change that later, if they want
<knome> ailo, if you do that though, you probably should mention that somewhere visible :)
<ailo> knome: We should probably mention it somewhere, but people who are used to multimedia work, especially audio will expect updates to be turned off by default
<len-dt> under "care and feeding of UbuntuStudio"?
<knome> ailo, mmh. but studio isn't just audio, is it? :) i think graphic artists, on the contrary, always want the latest tools..
<knome> (even if that meant just bugfixed stuff - inkscape is oh so crashy anyway!)
<ailo> The only reason to update is if something is not working in the first place
<ailo> And then you do it manually
<ailo> Updating is a potential danger
<knome> checking for updates will also stop from checking for security updates too
<len-dt> knome, ailo and I differe on this, I feel just turn cron and friends off while recording and on when not, ailo feels it should just work
<ailo> That's important for server people, not multimedia people
<knome> wait... security is not important for ubuntu studio users?
<ailo> knome: Give me an example of such an update
<len-dt> it depends if the net is connected.
<ailo> There's no reason to change something that already works
<knome> ailo, say, a firefox update that fixes a security bug that could damage your data.
<ailo> It's still best to have it off by default
<knome> i don't believe there is much need to justify security updates
<ailo> I haven't seen a single update that has had that sort of impact on a LTS, other than in theory
<ailo> Or any release for that matter
<ailo> Also, if you want to keep your box tidy and working, you might do as holstein. Keep the same install for years, without updating
<ailo> Graphics artist might install more often
<knome> it's your choice. i'm just giving some insight
<knome> just please remember ubuntu studio is just not for audio
<knome> if it is, please rename it as ubuntu music studio
<ailo> len-dt: My view is that if you can do it without modes, why use modes?
<ailo> len-dt: No reason to add complexity, if not needed
<ailo> The less the user needs to worry about the better
<len-dt> ailo, I know, there are two sides... I could argue with myself... and loose
<knome> "this site says ubuntu receives security and other updates, but i haven't seen a single one... am i insecure?"
<knome> s'pose that's not worrying :)
<ailo> Frankly, having updates on Ubuntu Studio seemed unproffesional to me
<knome> again i believe that's from the audio POV?
<ailo> Suitable for a web browsing computer, but not for a workstation meant to use all of the system performance for only what you are using it for directly
<ailo> You don't want popups
<ailo> It's better to have manual control instead
<knome> i'm not saying it should be on all the time
<ailo> If someone wants to update, just do it
<knome> just make it clear that the updates are really turned off
<ailo> The update manager is still there for anyone who wants to use it
<ailo> For audio the problem is of course most relevant. You don't want to start recording, and find an automatic update caused clicks in your recording, especially if you can't do retakes
<knome> of course
<len-dt> ailo, ok, so why do we run popularity-contest, logrotate? (check out /etc/cron.daily)
<ailo> len-dt: Don't ask me :)
<len-dt> And there are others.
<ailo> The intial configuration should be as good as it can get for any workflow you choose to do
<ailo> Tweaks beyond that should either be for troubleshooting, or for personal preference
<ailo> len-dt: I've never really had a look at what processes Ubuntu Studio has. I do feel that during Gnome2, the system was very minimal and responsive, having much less bloat than Ubuntu. Since we went for XFCE, I haven't really had the time to investigate. Have only been using user desktops, and haven't gone through the trouble of installing a production machine, as I will need to before this autumn
<ailo> Computers are a bit faster now, and many things change
<len-dt> ailo, that was my feeling the first time I ever looked at ps x
<len-dt> ailo, Computers are a bit faster, but running more extravagant software negates that.
<len-dt> ubuntu tries to automate everything. It takes cpu cycles
<ailo> len-dt: Maybe not. Even with high cpu load, you don't nessecarily get any problems. It all depends on what prio the processes have and what they are doing, etc.
<ailo> Last year, with gnome-shell, or unity, on a standard Ubuntu install, with the -lowlatency, I had no problems. The kernel was a bit more responsive back then too
<len-dt> ailo, one example. rtirq sets priorities... snd first then USB. one user has a PCI sound interface, the other has a USB interface. rtirq is wrong for one of them.
<ailo> I think you might not have gotten better results with a super minimal desktop, maybe not even without graphics at all
<ailo> len-dt: Yea. It's not good if it causes problems.
<ailo> As often, it doesn't even solve any
<ailo> For some it's essential
<ailo> I was thinking about the possibility of a gui control for it
<len-dt> Thats what modes is.
<len-dt> Two settings, one click to change.
<ailo> How does that change the rtirq?
<ailo> Also, maybe the script could be enhanced
<len-dt> Run it against two configs of need be.
<ailo> I have no problem with investigating modes. I'm all for it. But, I don't think it's the place to start off. Rather the place to end up in as a last resort
<len-dt> I'm 50/50 on that... one of my machines needs it for sure the other has less uses and so doesn't.
<len-dt> A desktop machine with one use in mind, just needs permanent tweaks.
<ailo> I'd rather see about fixing everything that can be fixed statically first
<ailo> Damn, it's not even hot here, and I'm sweating
<len-dt> this is our first warm weekend... we are all to hot.
<len-dt> a laptop that gets used for everything from games and browsing to maybe some accounting with sql running and oh by the way we want to be able to record or run the guitar through it too, needs an off switch for all the junk
<len-dt> Even while accounting with sql turned on, it might be nice to turn everything else off.
<len-dt> (SQL eats memory worse than almost anything)
<ailo> I guess it's kind of a nice feature to be able to get good performance, even when the system is totally messed up :). But it's also a bit up to the user. Even if the initial install is super, it is possible to mess it up
<len-dt> It is not messed up just because the user wants to use the system more than one way.
<ailo> I haven't looked more closely into the mods thing, but from what I've gathered, there are things that get turned off that you might not want to
<len-dt> The main user of US will want just an audio machine or just video
<len-dt> They will want to set and forget.
<ailo> I don't think used modes is a good "general" approach anyway
<ailo> suing*
<len-dt> uh oh it s legal action now ;-)
<ailo> hehe
<ailo> using*
<ailo> But let's say there is a mode that gets automatically turned on with jack
<ailo> And you can tweak what the mode will do
<ailo> The initial mode should be more or less what a normal install would be
<ailo> In a preference window you could choose to toggle things off
<len-dt> Ya.
<len-dt> Thats the idea.
<ailo> I could live with that. Especially if I didn't need to bother even knowing it happened, as long as I didn't need to
<ailo> We could add the mode preferences to -controls
<len-dt> That would be a good place.
<ailo> And if a workflow bar is ever created, the -controls could live there
<ailo> len-dt: A system like that might become the envy of the linux audio world ;)
<len-dt> Could do that or even be a part of it... but two separate pieces would be more flexable.
<ailo> I'm going to try keep -controls in modules as much as possible
<ailo> There's a menu in the indicator bar, but the menu items are each separate programs
<len-dt> No need for envy... anyone can have it ;-)   (I get the drift)
<ailo> So, a mode preference item would also be a separate program
<ailo> The menu would mostly just open them
<ailo> Also, the icon in the menu might change color if there is something wrong
<len-dt> I would like the naming to be generic so it could get used even outside audio.
<ailo> I did a startup script last year for checking if the system was well tweaked for audio. If it wasn't, a popup after booting would let you know you should configure using -controls
<len-dt> The mode program I have been using is a tray item, The icon in the tray shows what the mode is. When clicked on there is a drop down menu to choose the new mode.
<ailo> Ok
<ailo> I think I'd rather have the mode enabled with jack, and that in preferences, you can make it not run
<len-dt> one of the dropdown menu items should/will be the config part. (call it controls or whatever.
<ailo> I think a config window should be enough
<len-dt> The actual mode change is done with a CLI command. so it would be possible to have Jack prerun it.
<len-dt>  and post stop it.
 * len-dt does simple stuff... as few lines as he can.
<ailo> simple is best :)
<len-dt> anyway, it is late for me, midnight, I should go to keep wife warm...
<len-dt> GN
<ailo> GN len-dt 
<holstein> ailo: yup... the idea of ven upgrading my production rig to 12.04 is daunting
<holstein> "if it aint broke", ya know?
<holstein> i think we are just mostly audio guys here, which is not bad necessarily
<holstein> i look forward to cultivating some more video heavy users
<len-dt> Its good for me I am learning lots ;-)
<holstein> i know Scott was doing some video
<len-dt> video takes a whole different artistic bent.
<holstein> its such a commitment... new software and workflow
<holstein> i cant casually keep up with it to provide better support
<holstein> well... i could, but im not going to take the tie it would take
<len-dt> The videos I have seen from Scott so far, show good use of of tools, but the content is less than stellar. Good how to stuff.
<holstein> yup... he's doing great at learning the ropes and showing what can be done
<len-dt> It is like me with keyboards, I can make a few chords and understand the midi specs and what it does... but I am no keyboard player
<holstein> you N.A.R.K. !
<holstein> im a nark and a narg
<holstein> not a real keyboardist/guitarist :)
<len-dt> :-)
<holstein> i can do OK at fielding some midi questions
<len-dt> I could say the same... it is easy to see what I can't do.
<holstein> i can help folks find things too.. but with video, i got no clue
<len-dt> Ya, if the program description says video it might work...
<holstein> that too... and you might not be able to use one program for everything
<len-dt> If it says "player" probably not.
<len-dt> I do have a pretty good idea how a video workflow goes, I used to work in TV, but it was all analog.
<len-dt> early 80s
<holstein> yeah, its all different
<holstein> i feel like if you know a professional workflow for audio, JACK really makes sense
<len-dt> Just not all real time-ish
<holstein> some of the other stuff we have too... im not sure that is true for video
<len-dt> The one thing I find missing from video equipment is timecode
<len-dt> The video to sound has to be synced by eye.
<len-dt> We used to run TC cables to everything.
<len-dt> One master clock
<holstein> gtg... bbl! :)
<ailo_> len-dt: No work on that? midi? jack? lv2?
<len-dt> It has to do with the camera hardware
<len-dt> I think the video file format can handle it ok.
<len-dt> But the TC has to be added at the camera for it to be any use.
<len-dt> And as with audio, any two cameras will drift with time from each other.
<len-dt> For short videos it doesn't matter as we are not as sensitive to video/audio match up as we are to stereo match up for example.
<ailo_> Recording sync is one thing
<ailo_> Mixing another
<ailo_> Both need to have sync
<len-dt> In audio SW we keep very close tabs on latency so we can keep sync, I don't know that video SW pays as much attention.
<len-dt> Maybe it doesn't need to. A video that just has one shot from start to finish (goes around the world?) would be boring.
<ailo_> The timecode needs to be relevant
<ailo_> Otherwise, how will you know where to cut in audio?
<len-dt> The workflow might change depending on the material for video. A live event starts with the audio and puts video on top, a movie starts with video and does audio after.
<len-dt> in the video world the timecode is based on real time.
<len-dt> Real time as in wall clock
<len-dt> ailo_, in the blue prints there is mention of removing thunar or at least replacing it for the desktop.
<len-dt> The list of things that depend on it is quite long.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-01
<smartboyhw> Guys, my classroom session is coming up in 7 minutes!
<OvenWerks> micahg: can I get another try at ubuntustudio-menu: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu
<OvenWerks> micahg: also for future reference, where would I find out about these lintian warnings before I bug you?
<OvenWerks> I corrected for any lintian warnings I got when I bult the source on my machine. I checked my PPA build log and found nothing there either.
<OvenWerks> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage is the where I got my instractions for building source
 * smartboyhw thinks that is not adequate.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, look at http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: The reason I used it is because it is a direct link from the personal PPA page launchpad gives
<OvenWerks> Thank you for the link
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, it's still OK, but my link is also great.
<OvenWerks> The biggest problem with a lot of the packaging instructions is that they assume you actually have a program to package and code to compile. Metas and settings packages do not need such a complex setup... or shouldn't
<OvenWerks> There is no real difference between source and binary
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-02
<micahg> OvenWerks: sure, will take a look tomorrow
<micahg> OvenWerks: I use lintian -iIEv --pedantic
<smartboyhw> Hey ttoine 
<smartboyhw> How's our merchandise going?
<ttoine> hey smartboyhw 
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I had some time in may
<ttoine> I will not have any time again before august
<smartboyhw> ttoine, :(
<ttoine> that was why I asked zac and zequence to be faster during spring
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I know...
<cub> What kind of merchandise were you looking at?
<smartboyhw> cub, T-shirts?
<smartboyhw> Ask ttoine for more:)
<Mish> we were going to have UBS T-Shirts?
<cub> I asked everyone. ;)
<cub> I want a coffee mug. A large one so I don't have to go to the machine all the time.
<smartboyhw> cub, there will be mugs I think
<cub> yay
<smartboyhw> Ask them for more.
<ttoine> cub, as soon as can have internet again at home, I will do that. I can't do it from the office
<cub> Anything we could help out with?
<cub> on the other hand, August is not far away
<ttoine> cub, yes
<ttoine> actually, with my new job, I am moving from one city to another
<zequence> ttoine: If you need help, just let us know. What do you need for the shop?
<x3la> Hi
<OvenWerks> x3la: hello back
<x3la> Hey so I wanted to se at what small level I could help
<OvenWerks> Ok, what kinds of things do yu like to do?
<x3la> Well limited programming I'm a web developer by trade and audio producer
<OvenWerks> zequence is our lead. but there is an art lead where most of our web work goes through... he doesn't seem to be on right now.
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia is the one to llok for in that.
<OvenWerks> s/llok/look
<x3la> Hey Overnwerks  Sorry connection lost getting off the train
<x3la> So Yeah keen to help not sure where to start. I signed up for the mailing list. I am a web dev by trade and audio producer when I get the time
<OvenWerks> Sorry I wandered off for a bit.
<OvenWerks> zequence is our lead. but there is an art lead where most  of our web work goes through madeinkobaia he doesn't seem to be on  right now.
<OvenWerks> If you have a good idea about a linux workflow for any of the software, documenting it would be helpful too.
<OvenWerks> generally a look around at anything that looks like it needs fixing that interests you and fix (or just improve) it.
<x3la> OK Cool -  So I guess I get it installed and take a look around and get back here for the next thing. I can help with web, documentation, testing so where is this happening?
<x3la> I really would like to help get my firewire card going again but this looks like a deeper issue
<OvenWerks> I personally don't know firewire well, but holstein does... or at least uses it.
<OvenWerks> a big part of things is to leave you irc up as much as possible. Some people are sleeping right now for example. But they do look at the logs when awake.
<OvenWerks> our testing lead is not on right now either ...smartboyhw
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-03
<OvenWerks> checking that the ISO installs and everything looks like it is where it shold be
<OvenWerks> That the user can start jack in RT and get reasonable latency with it
<OvenWerks> (this is a problem with USB audio and the current kernel BTW)
<x3la> Oh whats up with the USB audio - Major or Minor?
<OvenWerks> I'm not really sure to be honest. It is a kernel problem. I think there is a patch about which I have heard mixed reports.
<OvenWerks> zequence would know, but he is probably asleep right now as I think he is at UTC +1 or so.
<OvenWerks> I'm -7 so just getting supper ready
<OvenWerks> Then I have to be out to set up for a gig in about 1.5 hours.
<x3la> Cool What do you play?
<holstein> x3la: i would grab a live CD and try using the firewire device
<holstein> try ubuntustudio 12.04 and 13.04 live
<smartboyhw> zequence, since when did you make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/KernelMaintenance so detailed? :O
<ttoine> zequence, I just need some time
<madeinkobaia> wow ttoine is here !
<smartboyhw> \o/
<smartboyhw> REUNION
<madeinkobaia> Hi smartboyhw : )
<smartboyhw> Hi madeinkobaia :)
<Mish> Hey madeinkobaia
<madeinkobaia> Hi Mish !
<Mish> :D
<madeinkobaia> 8-)
<cub> madeinkobaia, have you had the chance to think about graphic profile for the upcoming Youtube tutorials?
<madeinkobaia> Hi cub, in fact we talked about it with Kaj, and we were completely sure about how display graphical elements and what was the exact content (text) to display.
<cub> what was the result?
 * cub wish for comic sans font only.
<madeinkobaia> cub : if you have the time should it be possible to send me a mail with those informations : witch picture size you need, how many pictures, with wish text, and your preference for the font (the font must have an Open license). Also the idea was to use as base the actual banner I made for our social networks. 
<madeinkobaia> cub : a mail can be send here madeinkobaia@ubuntustudio.org
<cub> Yeah, I think zequence  already emailed what we talked about. To use the G+ banner but without some of the text to leave room for information about the actual tutorial. 
<cub> So there are no preferred font for Ubuntu Studio already?
<madeinkobaia> cub: indeed, that was the idea.
<cub> I'll make a mock up and email you when I'm done
<madeinkobaia> cub: We use for the moment the ubuntu font, and some additionals fonts I used on the slogan "linux for creative human"
<ttoine> hello
<ttoine> sorry
<ttoine> lot of work
<ttoine> no internet at home until middle of august
<madeinkobaia> cub: You can find many fonts with an open license here : http://openfontlibrary.org/
<madeinkobaia> Hi ttoine
<cub> sure, I just wanted to check if it was already some guidelines in the making
<madeinkobaia> cub: For the moment I am the live incarnation of our guideline ;p we actually work on it, it will take a little bit time.
<madeinkobaia> cub: Also you can make a draft if you have some knowledge with graphic tools and then send it to me by mail. That works fine too.
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: Some news from the webshop ?
<cub> madeinkobaia, yup, I've made some graphic and video editing before. The quality of it can be discuss though.
<madeinkobaia> cub: No worries, its just for have an idea of what you would like to see.
<ttoine> madeinkobaia, I am moving my house from Lyon to Grenoble, so no Internet at home until august
<ttoine> And I have a lot of work. That was why I asked to have the artwork earlier... now everybody will wait
<ttoine> it's nobody's fault...
<smartboyhw> ttoine, wait. Grenoble?
<smartboyhw> Isn't that the place where the nuclear accident happened?
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: No worries mate, good luck for your relocation.
<cub> Chernobyl?
<ttoine> smartboyhw, a nuclear incident ??
<smartboyhw> ttoine, heh, I managed to confuse it with Chernobyl, sorry:P
<ttoine> smartboyhw, Grenoble, France. there is a nuclear reactor dedicated to research, that's all
<cub> Or the France did a very good work covering it up. ;)
<smartboyhw> Grenoble though, I did heard about it from Point Blanc of the Alex Rider series?
<smartboyhw> Is it placed near a mountain?
<ttoine> one of the oldest in the world, actually. and also, one of the oldest accelerator
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I have moutain everywhere around when I look outside the windows
<smartboyhw> lol
<ttoine> And I am moving to Lans en Vercors, a nice village in the Moutain. My wife hate cities
<smartboyhw> ttoine, why?
<ttoine> smartboyhw, why she hate cities ? or why I am moving ? ;-)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, first.
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: I went few times in Lans en Vercors. Nice place really.
<ttoine> madeinkobaia, yes, I hope my wife and kids will enjoy the place
<ttoine> smartboyhw, she likes poneys, landscape, walking or bicycle riding, and having a beautiful point of view from the living room
<smartboyhw> Whoa
<ttoine> this is definitely not possible in big cities dowtown ;-)
<ttoine> and yes, we have a poney ;-)
<ttoine> smartboyhw, she is always outside. In the other hand, I can live three days in my flat without going outside. strange, no ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, sometimes reverse is the best:P
<madeinkobaia> ttoine: same paradox by my side ;p
<ttoine> ;-)
<zequence> only two days left of teaching Linux (my head is echoing with Linux terms), then - vacation :P
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<Mish> you teach linux?
<smartboyhw> zequence, since when you made https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/KernelMaintenance that detailed?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I add to it from time to time
<smartboyhw> zequence, you should join the wiki team.
<zequence> Mish: Only temporarily - extra work. I teach unemployed people basic Linux administration
<zequence> smartboyhw: That might be a good idea, but maybe later
<Mish> cool
<zequence> I've been wanting to create documentation specifically for creating and maintaining flavors. Such exists already, but may be I'd like to add something to that, and in that case, it might be a good idea to involve myself more in the Ubuntu side of the community - documentation, wiki, etc
<smartboyhw> zequence, good.
<smartboyhw> I will tell phillw to add you:P (He did ask about that before)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-04
<Mish> Hello folks :D
<cub> Hi Mish 
<Mish> :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, Mish OvenWerks cub ttoine we have our catchup with the Community Council today
<smartboyhw> 17:00 UTC should be it
<Mish> hmm.... that's nearly 11 pm for me
<smartboyhw> zequence, you MUST attend:P
<cub> ok, are we supposed to have prepared anything before that? (which might already be done)
<smartboyhw> cub, no.
<smartboyhw> :P
<smartboyhw> Well, if you guys can't attend, no worries:)
<smartboyhw> It isn't compulsory except for zequence I think
<cub> I don't know if I can yet. I'm sort in charge of the baby tonight. :P It depends on her mood. 
<cub> I just imported the Ubuntu calendar and it told med there's an Ubuntu Studio meeting on Sunday. I'm not sure they are still running though?
<smartboyhw> cub, no,.
<ttoine> smartboyhw, is it in 10 min ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, nah
<ttoine> sorry, now ?
<smartboyhw> 17:00 UTC
<ttoine> so ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, 2 hours later
<smartboyhw> Should be
<smartboyhw> Yes, correct.
<smartboyhw> 2 hours later
<cub> ttoine, you're in CEST time? so it's at 19.00
<cub> And if Mark Shuttleworth is not there I will be disappointed. ;)
<cub> Gaah, I just realized he's younger than me...
<smartboyhw> cub, he normally isn't there:P
<ttoine> ah ok
<ttoine> even google calendar didn't helped me
<ttoine> I will try to stay until 19:00 at work, so
<zequence> yep, it's in hour, right?
<zequence> just came back from work
<cub> there was a great link on the agenda page: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130704T17
<cub> zequence, I think it's 19.00 our time
<zequence> ah, yes. summertime
<zequence> I just knew it was after 17.00 our time :P
<zequence> ok, good. I'll be attending of course
<smartboyhw> zequence, it's 01:00 in our time
<smartboyhw> but, it's near summer holidays, not much control:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, what  do you think can we tell the Community Council?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I don't have an agenda myself at all. I'm more curious on what they have to say really, since I have yet had no interaction with that council
<zequence> I'm currently reading up on what they do
<smartboyhw> Oh.......
<cub> There was a short agenda on topic they would like to hear about
<smartboyhw> cub, but they do ketchup only:P
<cub> heeh
<cub> but some pointers at least: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<cub> kind of standard updates
<smartboyhw> Here's what we wanna talk today
<zequence> Yes, I probably should have posted that link here as well for those interested. I went through a few logs to see what they do usually
<smartboyhw> things you're proud of,
<smartboyhw> reviewing team reports together,
<smartboyhw> outstanding things and plans for the near future,
<smartboyhw> things you and your team are discussing right now, want to get input on from a broader audience,
<smartboyhw> questions you might have. 
<zequence> It's a little weird that we are grouped with Xubuntu though
<cub> the last meetings I looked into didn't say much on what they were doing
<zequence> We have the same default DE, but quite different problems to solve
<cub> they seem to run two at the same meeting Lubuntu and Edubuntu last time
<zequence> Ah, right, yeah
<zequence> well, we'll be there anyway :)
<cub> there are a couple of things I've noticed since I started to pay attention
<smartboyhw> cub, ?
<cub> more members, the investigation about other DE's
<smartboyhw> yeah
<cub> tutorials on youtube
<smartboyhw> yeah
<smartboyhw> I think we are more ambitious this cycle.
<cub> I'm cooking dinner and watching my 9 months daughter at the same time....so I might be a bit lost in space
<smartboyhw> heh
<zequence> cub: not an age when you trust them to manage themselves yet by any means :D
<smartboyhw> lol
<cub> hehe no, but she's in her walking chair chasing the dog, within view
<zequence> reasonably secured then :P
<cub> the dog doesn't seem to think so. :D
<zequence> lol
<smartboyhw> lol 
<smartboyhw> CC meeting in 3 minutes
<cub> zequence, you'll do the talking?
 * smartboyhw +1 cub
<zequence> cub: I suppose. I mean, I might as well, but feel free to add something if I seem to forget something important
<cub> sure
<smartboyhw> zequence, mention leadership changes, you haven't been product lead before last CC meeting. with us..
<smartboyhw> um, I mean catch-up
<ttoine> smartboyhw, where is this stuff we should at 19:00
<ttoine> I am already late...
<smartboyhw> ttoine, #ubuntu-meeting
<cub> in #ubuntu-meeting
<ttoine> damned Jira...
<ttoine> it is a pain to setup
<cub> hehe
<cub> and a pain to use from what I hear
<zequence> ttoine: you didn't miss a whole lot. Just some information from us to them, basically
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> we still want to use Xubuntu ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, well yes
<ttoine> I saw on the mailing list stuff about supporting other DE too
<smartboyhw> At least, Xfce is our live DVD's default DE
<smartboyhw> But we will support other DE during install.
<zequence> ttoine: Yes, we've been experimenting with that lately
<ttoine> great to know that
<ttoine> does the change to Mir impact us ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, oops
<smartboyhw> zequence, you better answer this....:P
<zequence> ttoine: At least in that it might not be able to just logout from one DE, and then login to another, or who knows - maybe co-installing some DEs will not be possible. But, I don't think in the way that it would stop us from supporting any specific DE
<smartboyhw> zequence, wait. KDE.
<smartboyhw> KDE has denied Mir already
<smartboyhw> And Kubuntu will NOT use Mir.
<ttoine> smartboyhw, do we really have a lot of user on KDE
<smartboyhw> ttoine, that's a question.
<micahg> smartboyhw: no, Kubuntu has said they'll hold off on MIR until it's more proven
<ttoine> the other problem is: does it have an impact on KDE based application like Krita ?
<smartboyhw> zequence, ttoine I'm proposing a survey to find out which DE do users really use:P
<cub> about Krita, I've seen some issues from users about Krita and US lately
<smartboyhw> micahg, um, I know better than you on this business (I'm a Kubuntu member, IIRC, and an active packager hoping to apply archive access some time)
<micahg> and just because Kubuntu doesn't ship MIR, doesn't mean it won't run with XMir as long as they're still using X
<zequence> ah, yes, applications :P
<micahg> smartboyhw: I want the MLs and discussions and I think  you're polarizing the issue too much
<micahg> s/want/read/
<kubotu> micahg meant: "smartboyhw: I read the MLs and discussions and I think  you're polarizing the issue too much"
<smartboyhw> micahg, how about Wayland........
<Mish> If they use Mir won't they have to port Qt to Mir in order for any qt app towork?
 * smartboyhw is the least polarized among the Kubuntu people.
<ttoine> smartboyhw, would be interesting to create a poll about that on the website
<smartboyhw> Mish, nah
<micahg> smartboyhw: all of this has been discussed already on ubuntu-devel, if the wayland is a backend for Mesa, then it'll also just work
<smartboyhw> micahg, yeah, let's see......
<ttoine> smartboyhw, remember me you age ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, what?
<micahg> smartboyhw: the only decision that's been made AFAICT is that for 13.10 and 14.04 Kubuntu will ship standard X
<smartboyhw> micahg, yeah
<ttoine> smartboyhw, how old are you ?
<cub> hey ttoine I didn't know you was in on Ubuntu Studio in the beginning. cool.
<Mish> smartboyhw, no? but I toolkits and WMs wokred on top of display managers
<smartboyhw> ttoine, 14? 15 in 22 days.
<smartboyhw> Mish, well no is the correct answer, they won't need to port
<ttoine> and you already do all that stuff ? are you the next torvald ?
<ttoine> or the next aaron swartz ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, nah,  my programming is crappy still
<ttoine> do you think I know how to programm ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, no:P
<ttoine> you still have time to practice programing, you are so young, and already talented
<ttoine> and very active
<cub> exactly
 * smartboyhw has to sleep....... 1:39 AM
<zequence> this is quite interesting I think, and something I'd very much like to participate in for 14.04 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/CommunicationsTeam/WOWLubuntu/StartUbuntu
<ttoine> zequence, looks interesting...
<ttoine> but what could we do ?
<ttoine> distribute install CD on the streets ?
<zequence> ttoine: I imagine the best method would be to do, what is the right term, targeted advertisement, using banners, slogans, some specific and easy to understand messages to make people become more aware of the idea that Ubuntu could be an alternative to their XP install
<zequence> if we join up, using the same messages, it might do some good, I think
<zequence> or similar messages
<zequence> we still have our own nisches
<zequence> I'm sure the it should not be hard to involve most of the Ubuntu community on this
<ttoine> sure
<Mish> this sounds a lot like a full on advertising campaign
<zequence> It's a good moment to do something like that, since Win8 is really taking off slowly, and there are lots of people with older machines, etc, who might not be interested in any newer Win alternatives
<zequence> Lubuntu is a good choice for old machines
<Mish> true
<ttoine> Ubuntu 12.04 is a good one for old machines
<Mish> but personally I'd like to see what they come up with in phase 0 first
<ttoine> oh, oups... its end of life is it april 2014 too...
<Mish> no eol for 12.04 is in 2017
<Mish> last I saw that is
<Mish> *time
<zequence> Just today I helped a guy create a usb installer with Lubuntu 12.04 for his P4 machine at home
<zequence> He had XP on it, but it was broken, so the machine was not doing anything
<Mish> nice
<cub> Start Ubuntu seems like a good idea, but a bit late in the race
<cub> It will take time to get it going and XP users might already have made their change once the word gets out
<OvenWerk1> zequence_: (or anyone else) I  was working during the earlier chat re: MIR
<OvenWerk1> I think the point is generally mote. MIR _must_ run the huge pile of SW that is already out there or Ubuntu (vanilla) and the market it is aimed at will fail.
<OvenWerk1> So KDE, MIR support or not, should still be runable on top of MIR... time will tell.
<micahg> right, that's why XMir isn't going anywhere anytime soon
<OvenWerk1> My second point is that if someone chooses a different DE to run Studio on top of, they are not likeley to be switching back and forth. I am finding that right now KDE is the most stable on my desktop. The issue of switching from wayland to MIR isn't there. 
<OvenWerk1> (my laptop/netbook runs xfce just fine... where I am typing)
<OvenWerk1> The only people who will have an issue with switching from one display server to another is those of us testing them  :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-05
<micahg> OvenWerk1: FYI, one change per commit makes for much easier reviewing
<micahg> OvenWerk1: does anything in -menu still need xdg-utils?
<Mish> um Len?
<Mish> I mean OvenWerk1
<Mish> I have a little problem here
<Mish> I need a little help with the menus
<Mish> OvenWerk1: Sorry for quitting but I had to log out of my session for applying the changes. I have solved the problem by editing the xfce-applications.menu file
<Mish> Had to search a bit, but I learned something new today :)
<Noskcaj> Just so you guys are aware of it, Testdrive doesn't support studio anymore due to issue with the install size
<Noskcaj> If someone is willing to help fix this (on the testdrive end), let me know and i'll help you get started
<astraljava> Noskcaj: There's a size check? O.o
<smartboyhw> astraljava, Noskcaj what size check!?!?!?
<astraljava> smartboyhw: It was a question from my part, I am not sure there is, but if install size indeed is a deciding factor, then sounds like something is keeping track of it.
<astraljava> Noskcaj: I have a (mostly) free weekend, if I manage to finish my work project quickly, I could have a look at the code.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, is it?
<smartboyhw> We are a DVD install already
<smartboyhw> I don't think disk size is the deciding factor for us at least
<smartboyhw> Well, if you want all that software, disk space must be comprimized
<smartboyhw> We aren't Lubuntu (who strangely aims for CD-sized ISOs)
<cub> I like smaller iso's but sure, fitting all the applications might be difficult
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, astraljava, cub: Testdrive doesn't make a big enough virtual disk to install studio to, the "other size button is broken too. so edubuntu and studio won't install
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, If you get the virtual disk changes done i assume it would be simple to copy them across to get RAM allocation fixed too
<astraljava> smartboyhw: I don't think the conversation was ever about the ISO size, but the install size.
<astraljava> Nobody's interested in making ISO size smaller, that was deemed futile long ago. :)
<smartboyhw> We can't help either with install size
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I think we should rather work on making 10GB drives available on Testdrive instead
<smartboyhw> or 16GB
<astraljava> smartboyhw: That's what he's referring to with virtual disk changes. Should be trivial, but I'm interested more in finding out why the "other size" button doesn't work.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, me too
<smartboyhw> I do wonder how many people use Testdrive to test Studio:P
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw,  i would, if i could
<Noskcaj> neither of the "other" dialogue boxes worked, so they were disabled. this was ~2 years ago.
<Noskcaj> i vote for a 16GB and maybe a 32 and 64
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, probably NOT 64GB.
<smartboyhw> 16 and 32 should be OK
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, just a suggestion
<cub> Mish, did you do the icons in Inkscape?
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, 16 and 32 
<Mish> cub: Yes I do
<smartboyhw> I don't think 64 is needed when you are just testing an ISO
<Mish> cub: Do you need them?
<cub> Mish, do you have any good links or pointers on Inkscape? I would like to get myself up to speed on how to use Inkscape during my vacation
<Mish> the source SVGs I mean
<cub> Well, yeah it could be helpful to look at and dabble around to learn
<cub> I suppose I could get them from Launchpad?
<Mish> I mostly learned Inkscape by myself
<Mish> but microugly's guide is really good for starting
<Mish> let me find a link
<Mish> http://www.microugly.com/inkscape-quickguide/
<cub> cool thanks!
<Mish> The preview box of the source SVGs contains the finished product but all around it on the drawing board are preliminary designs and temporary assets 
<Mish> which looks like a mess
<cub> :)
<Mish> I"ll upload the svgs to my branch in a moment
<cub> I have a dream of creating a Solarized theme and icons for my xfce laptops. We'll see if I ever get the time to actually do it.
<Mish> Solarized is a big project. But that'd be really cool
<cub> yeah, I got hooked after changing my terminal, vim and xchat to solarized
<cub> there is one for KDE
<Mish> cub: Here's the link  --  https://code.launchpad.net/~mishrashubham2007/+junk/UbuntuStudio
<cub> thanks
<Mish> NP. The svgs in an src directory
<OvenWerk1> micahg: just on my way out... I thought I had done one change per commit, but I may have slipped, sorry. I think I can remove xdg-utils and will. I'll leave a note when I have done so.
<micahg> OvenWerk1: I see one big thing here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu/revision/58
<micahg> OvenWerk1: good job on fixing the warnings though, I didn't know about Link before in .desktop files
<madeinkobaia> Hi fellows : )
<DarkEra> hey mate
<madeinkobaia> Hi DarkEra, what's up ?
<DarkEra> not much to be honest, except being busy at home fixing and freshing up the rooms :)
<DarkEra> another thing is that my laptop broke/died. I'm on my old netbook at the moment
<madeinkobaia> So he died of old age, a natural ending, no worries except in case of data loss.
<DarkEra> the problem is that i can't get myself a new machine soon or let the laptop get fixed. That's what bothers me
<madeinkobaia> Ops sorry I didn't read well your previous post, its your new one who have died...and you're using the oldest right now. Well thats tricky indeed. By my side I get some old pc on stock too, in case of problem. 
<DarkEra> the laptop that died  was 5 years old now, so development can't continue for now
<madeinkobaia> Yeah, glorious time we live now, we planned obsolescence as leading point, etc. You just have to be lucky :(
<madeinkobaia> I know that built by yourself your own pc works better. When you buy an all made one, they are often more problems.
<DarkEra> true
<madeinkobaia> I always built by my self my pc, and except in case when I shoot them with feet ;p I keep them working. The actual I using for internet have 10 years. And works more or less fine. Well is outdated but, fortunately I run Debian on it, so, what else :)
<madeinkobaia> Bbl, see you :)
<OvenWerk1> micahg: Ah, I see what you mean, I lumped all the linian fixes together, I should have split them up. I will rememeber next time...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-06
<OvenWerks> micahg: I have removed xdg-utils from depends on ubuntustudio-menu, also I noticed that ubuntustudio-default-settings has some commits and could be released as well.
<Navion> Can someone suggest an S/PDIF digital audio input for Ubuntu-Studio? I've got an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 but I'm having trouble with the drivers (or lack of drivers).
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-07
<Navion> Does Ubuntu-Studio support ZFS or do I have to load that separately? 
<holstein> !zfs
<ubottu> For information concerning ZFS and Ubuntu, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZFS
<holstein> Navion: ^
<holstein> Navion: ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu
<Navion> Hi
<Navion> Yes, I figured it's an extended package.
<holstein> its quite new. the linux support for it
<Navion> Fuse has been around a couple years. The native ZFS is pretty new.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-30
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'm rewriting the controls page, making it easier to add to. Hope the format is good https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/UbuntuStudioControls
<zequence> Oh, and I moved it, as I'm putting all feature definitions at the same place
<zequence> I'll be adding to it today, but please do look it through later, and fill in stuff if you want
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-02
<nasenfahrrad7> Hey everybody!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-03
<cub> Good evening zequence , I pushed the css change to the web site branch but I'm unsure about creating the ticket at rt.ubuntu.com as I haven't done that before.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-04
<zequence> cub: no hurry to update the website. We still need to do a change in the footer too
<zequence> Canonical wanted a legal notice there, where we explain we aren't affiliated with them. Have it in a mail somewhere
<zequence> Also, we should change the logo to the new one madeinkobaia made
<cub> zequence: right, the same legal notice as ttoine updated on the spreadshirt site. I can push that later on this evening.
<ttoine> zequence, I already updated the spreadshirt shop and https://ubuntustudio.org/merchandise/
<ttoine> you can tell cub that he can use the same text for the footer. and then, we can remove the first sentence on the merchandise page
<cub> I made the update to the web site footer and pushed the branch.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-05
<OvenWerks> I thought we fixed this:
<OvenWerks> The following packages have unmet dependencies: libavcodec-extra-54 : Conflicts: libavcodec54 but 6:9.11-2ubuntu3 is to be
<OvenWerks> installed libavcodec54 : Conflicts: libavcodec-extra-54 but 6:9.11-2ubuntu3 is to be
<OvenWerks> installed
<OvenWerks> From The build log for the 64bit ISO
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-06
<zequence> OvenWerks: Started working on the new -controls version.
<zequence> Assembling functions for the new version under src
<zequence> src/
<zequence> We'll need to use at least python 3.4
<zequence> (if we use rlimits to check rtprio values using python)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-30
<OvenWerks> zequence: ISO build failures look like they are external to our setup. It looks like one of the servers is/was down. It looks like they were rebuilt a half hour later with success.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-01
<cub> OvenWerks or zequence online?
<cub> for the FreeDesktop review I'm a bit uncertain about the instruction:
<cub> Install the package that the desktop file belongs to, if needed, in order to learn what the application that you start with the desktop file is used for. Make sure you are starting the correct desktop file by investigating the contents of /usr/share/applications/<name>.desktop, if needed.
<cub> If I have the application installed, that should be equivalent to "install the package"?
<cub> Then, how do I make sure I'm starting the right .desktop file?
<cub> Also, does it matter which US version or application version I'm running? In 14.04 I have kdenlive 0.9.6, but perhaps I should do the review running 15.04/15.10 to get kdenlive 0.9.10?
<cub> And lastly, what is our policy on using "Audio or Video or AudioVideo"? Is AudioVideo enough or should we combine them?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-02
<zequence> cub: if you investigate the contents of the desktop file, you will see the line which executes the application
<zequence> /usr/bin/<something>, usually
<zequence> Or, let me show an example
<zequence> the desktop file ardour3.desktop
<zequence> Name=Ardour3 (the name that appears in the menu)
<zequence> Exec=/usr/bin/ardour3 (the actual binary)
<zequence> Or, just the name is enough, cause that will make sure that what you see in the menu is for the right desktop file
<zequence> Probably not a problem. I just put it in there in case
<zequence> Right, I forgot to put in the rules
<zequence> I was a little busy at the time. Still am. Also, a bit under the weather
<zequence> Let me do some changes to the instructions during the coming weekend
<DalekSec> zequence: he's long gone, mate.
<zequence> DalekSec: He usually read the backlogs
<zequence> It
<DalekSec> Ah, pardon me then.
<zequence> :)
 * DalekSec ducks and hides.
<ttoine> hello
<cub> How about the blueprints, fdc-graphics contains kdenlive which is AudioVideo, is there something we should do to move it to fdc-video? Or does that not matter?
<cub> Also, is the Categories order important? As for kdenlive it's: Qt;KDE;AudioVideo;AudioVideoEditing;
<zequence> cub: kdenlive is for some reason put in the graphics section in Debian, so that should probably be changed upstream as well
<zequence> I can't think of any other reason for the order being important than pure pedantism :).
<cub> Aha
<cub> I we find packages that might be dropped? Like Kino which hasn't been updated since 2009 and their webpage claims the project is dead. :D
<zequence> Well, this is really a full go through of all multimedia packages, just the ones with desktop files. Other subjects than categorization is not a part of the plan.
<zequence> this is not a full go-through, is what I meant
<zequence> If Kino still works, I see no problem with keeping it in the repo, as long as the package maintainer is active
<zequence> It's really a job for the maintainer to keep track of that, in Debian
<zequence> But, if there are problems, one should report a bug and make sure the maintainer is aware of it
<cub> Kino package is taken care of, and started just fine in my 14.04 
<cub> Kino has 44 open bugs
<zequence> atom has gone stable - http://atom.io
<cub> Looks good. Still hooked on vim though.
<zequence> I never started using anything beyond nano on terminal. Haven't had the patience to learn
<zequence> There are some editing features that I'm not sure you can do in a terminal
<zequence> Like cut and paste a section into a specific tab depth
<zequence> Also, moving a selection left, right, 4 spaces with TAB, or SHIFT+TAB
<cub> I have quite basic needs as long as I get 4 spaces tab, colour coding and Solarized theme
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-03
<zequence> cub: I will add this to the rules later. IF something is only video, it also needs the Video category
<zequence> If something is only audio, it also needs the Audio Category
<zequence> Both always have to have at least AudioVideo
<zequence> both kdenlive and kino seem like they are only Video, right?
<OvenWerks> zequence: I think they should be video tagged, but kdenlive at least is one of the many video programs that have AudioVideo, but not Video.
<cub> zequence: about kdenlive and kino they can both play and edit audio as part of the editing so both already were categorized as AudioVideo;AudioVideoEditing. In that case I'm wondering if it would be necessary to add Video or not
<cub> Now, you would probably not start kdenlive to edit your recorded music, but it would be possible. However, to tweak audio for a video I do all editing in kdenlive instead of preparing the audio beforehand
<cub> I can't really think of any application that would have only Video. Almost all videos have sound. All players can play sound as well as show the video.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-04
<OvenWerks> cub: (if you see this) That was one of my points also that most video apps could argue that they are AudioVideo.
<zequence> cub: Well, let's think of Video in this way: video is graphics+audio
<zequence> I think it would be correct to add the Video tag to those applications, as they are clearly created for video editing.
<zequence> Workflow: I want to create a video, 1) record - what tool do I use (category: recorder), 2) edit - what tool do I use (category: video editor).
<zequence> The Freedesktop categories are for tool types
<zequence> All audio or video has to at least have AudioVideo, so for kdenlive, I would do: AudioVideo;Video;AudioVideoEditing
<OvenWerks> zequence: I agree. My only question is if the developer will feel the same (or deb packager)
<zequence> We will have to find out. I think it will be easier to get people to agree on changes if our work is well thought through and well prepared
<zequence> My feeling is most people won't care
<zequence> ..and thus, they will have no big problem with changes
<OvenWerks> Good
<OvenWerks> I think too, that explaining this is about making things more organized and easier to find may help too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-05
<OvenWerks> Just had a thought. Maybe not much we can do about it here
<OvenWerks> but it sure would be nice if the Ladspa plugin packages could be split into ladspa plugins with no LV2 versions and then all the rest. I would really like not to have to look through all the LV1 plugs if there is already an LV2 of the same thing.
<OvenWerks> Those who use only LV1s would of course need the whole pile.
<OvenWerks> (LMMS, audacity, non* are some example that only do LV1)
<OvenWerks> Someone who has better wording to make a debian bug could do that.
<OvenWerks> One of the people on #ubuntustudio was asking about stereo imaging plugins. I find there is such a thing for linux: bs2b-ladspa which plays with the audio so it _should_ sound better in headphones.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-06
<OvenWerks> Re splitting packages: It seems that is mostly done. I removed the two really big ladspa packages that have lv2 replacements steve harris and invada. There are no doubt others but the LV2 conversion was done by someone other than the original author and the names are not the same making figuring this out a bit harder. But plugin browsing is already a bit easier.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks, i like your idea of splitting the lv1 and lv2. you mention it is already mostely done, does that mean that filing a bug is unecessary?
<sakrecoer> also, hi all! :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-07
<sakrecoer> hm... after posting the backport post, i seem to be blocked from doing anything administrative on the wordpress...
<sakrecoer> super weird...
<sakrecoer> autumna, could you try login? do you have the full dashboard?
<sakrecoer> ah... back to normal :)
<sakrecoer> read y'all later!
<autumna> I just saw this that's odd
<OvenWerks> Is there a quick fix for < CDPark> This needs to be updated:  https://ubuntustudio.org/category/news/release-notes/
<sakrecoer> autumna, it resolved it self automagically... maybe i triggered something by mistake...
<autumna> or server had a small hiccip
<autumna> hiccup*
<sakrecoer> :) probably
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: can our release notes get updated?
<OvenWerks>  https://ubuntustudio.org/category/news/release-notes/
<sakrecoer> good spotting OvenWerks :D
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: not me, one of our users.
<sakrecoer> lots of user interaction lately :)
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks, what is < CDPark> ?
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks, no need to answer, i've been pointed to the right direction :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-09
<FManTropyx> hi
<autumna> hi?
<autumna> :)
<FManTropyx> uh, I followed the orders on the Contribute web page (join this channel and say hi) :D
<autumna> hi and welcome!
<autumna> FManTropyx: I should show better practices and use name so that you can se me replying
<autumna> you should also join ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list btw, because a good portion of the conversation happens there. :) 
<autumna> and beyond that if you have any questions I can try to answer them, until sakrecoer or one of the more senior members drop by. (pretty new here)
<FManTropyx> is there a donation feature to which I can link?
<OvenWerks> FManTropyx: not that I am aware of. It is rather hard for us to deal with money in a right way.
<OvenWerks> but if you wait for sakrecoer to be on line he would be better able to tell you.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: from earlier: " < FManTropyx> is there a donation feature to which I can link?"
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: do you know off hand if we have any method (or are allowed) to accept donations?
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks, not for ubuntustudio, no...
<sakrecoer> even the t-shirt money goes to canonical
<sakrecoer> well... supposedly at least, i don't even know who administrates that shop, might ttoine
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: that was what I thought.
<OvenWerks> I think the t-shirts are set so they are zero difference from cost
<OvenWerks> (and mugs)
<sakrecoer> i try to tell those who ask that they can donate to canonical, or to their favourit apps upstream devels..
<OvenWerks> FManTropyx: ^^^^ there is the answer.
<sakrecoer> FManTropyx, actualy, getting involved with the team is the best way to give something back to the community
<OvenWerks> Upstream would be great :)
 * OvenWerks works on an upstream project...
<sakrecoer> :) ardour defenitly diserves your donations, FManTropyx :)
<sakrecoer> so does many other projects though..
<sakrecoer> but yeah, for ubuntustudio specificaly: spread the word, create awesome work and mention ubuntu studio, get involved in the project, write documentation, help packaging... those are a few things that can make a huge difference.
<FManTropyx> what's an ardour..? somehow I learned of Ubuntu Studio only a few months ago
<sakrecoer> FManTropyx, ardour is made for producing audio/music
<OvenWerks> FManTropyx: Ardour is a DAW similar to protools for example.
<autumna> FManTropyx what are you interested in working with btw? as in which aspect? (if you have a clear idea)
<autumna> is there anything in particular you wanted to contribute to, or just dropped by to just help whatever is needed in etc?
<FManTropyx> no
<OvenWerks> FManTropyx: from the original message, I get the idea you have a web page and would like to put a spot on it that redirects to something useful to US. Probably just the home page (ubuntustudio.org) would be fine.
<OvenWerks> We may not get finacial help that way, but exposure has value too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-03
<Eickmeyer> Hey everyone. Don't mind me. Just working on some stuff in Carla that I missed (namely the wine wrapper).
<krytarik> It's at 18 fail mails currently fwiw..
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I'm about to revert the changes. It's just not working.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-04
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I have an addition to -controls that will turn up and unmute speakers when the phones are unplugged. However from what you have said... I am not sure it would help you. It doesn't work on my son's computer either (laptop) which shows not headphone or speakers levels in the mixer.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: :/
<OvenWerks> There is a utility called hda_analizer.py That shows a bunch of pin stuff
<Eickmeyer> If I may throw some good news your way, I managed to package Cadence, and Catia can be installed separately, so it looks like we have a viable replacement for Patchage.
<OvenWerks>  I am told it should hold some keys
<OvenWerks> That does sound good.
<OvenWerks> Now to add it to the repo...
<Eickmeyer> I just need to clean it up to make lintian happy. Also, I packaged the latest version of the Calf plugins that fixes a bug that causes Ardour to crash.
<Eickmeyer> Might require less cleanup since I used leftovers from the package in the repo.
<OvenWerks> There have been more comments about https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/AudioHandbook/UsingVSTPlugins 
<Eickmeyer> I was trying to get Carla's wine bridges to work, but alas, there's a ton of work that would go into it.
<OvenWerks> ""Next, download a VST. Here is a remarkable and very popular free  synth from British vendor U-He"
<OvenWerks> 16:08 < rgareus> uhm, except U-he is not British and there are native Linux versions  of the plugins
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, native VST versions. VST != Windows only.
<OvenWerks> There are still, somehow, people using ubuntu who think the latest Ardour is 2.*
<Eickmeyer> smh
<OvenWerks> The screen shots for Ardour in the handbook are way out of date too. I don't remember the mix strip ever looking like that :)
<Eickmeyer> I just s/British/German
<Eickmeyer> I"m looking at the mix strip now, and it looks very similar, just different colors. He left the fader out.
<Eickmeyer> I could probably sub it out.
<OvenWerks> The buttons are differently placed too. Probably not a really big deal
<Eickmeyer> It translates well, tbh.
<OvenWerks> The write up on VST plugins should be changed somewhat I think.
<OvenWerks> It shouldl at least not say that vst plugins are not available for linux because that is just wrong
<OvenWerks> As of vst3 linux is even officially supported.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'll make the changes.
<OvenWerks> (by Steinberg)
<Eickmeyer> VST isn't proprietary anymore, is it?
<OvenWerks> Yes it is, but there is a GPL api version.
<OvenWerks> vst2 is officially not there any more. Steinberg is actively going after people who create new plugins for it.
<OvenWerks> your problem with Carla and wine may be 32bit vs 64bit.
<OvenWerks> wine that is
<OvenWerks> a lot of win vst are 32bit.
<OvenWerks>  You will want to make any wine lib you pull in match whatever LMMS pulls in.
<Eickmeyer> That's part of the problem. The other part is that I couldn't get the bridge to compile properly because of an error in WINE.
<Eickmeyer> I just made changes to the VST plugins section that remove references to wine or 32-bit. That section could, honetly, eventually be removed. I might rewrite it to include effects plugins as well.
<OvenWerks> The only windows program I have ever used in linux is hulls.exe
<OvenWerks> It is the only one that has run well for me.
<OvenWerks> For anything else there has been something in Linux that worked for me
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's why I haven't done much with Waves plugins like my co-worker, because LV2 plugins work well for me.
<Eickmeyer> Honestly, if it's possible to get LinVST packaged, that might be the way to go for people who want to use Windows VST plugins.
<Eickmeyer> But, I'm not going to waste my energy on it yet.
<Eickmeyer> I'm just happy to get Calf 0.90.0 and Cadence packaged. I think I'll be done for the evening.
<OvenWerks> does our version of Ardour include the a-* plugins?
<OvenWerks> a-fluidsynth has replaced my last use for calf.
<krytarik> https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/amd64/ardour/filelist - appears to be so.
<OvenWerks> Ya, the show up when I open Ardour, just wanted to make sure that wasn't because I also build Ardour src
<krytarik> I see.
<OvenWerks> My Harrison plugins don't show though... maybe I haven't imported them from my 16.04 yet
<OvenWerks> my keys are there...
<OvenWerks> we don't seem to set LV2PATH
<OvenWerks> hu, "All runlevel operations denied by policy
<OvenWerks> invoke-rc.d: policy-rc.d denied execution of reload.
<OvenWerks> then listed are a number of cups packages... I am guessing cups updating is half done.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-05
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: I have packaged the new version of calf plugins (that came out in November and everyone seems to have abandoned). It was requested by the developer that I use the latest git version since it fixes a bug that would cause DAWs such as ardour and qtractor to crash.
<Eickmeyer> But... lintian keeps yelling at me about the changelog version not being higher. >:(
<Eickmeyer> False positive perhaps? https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/
<OvenWerks> I believe -controls is still waiting for release too.
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: If you're around, perhaps you could take a look (if you want)? ^
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I would disagree that packaging a new upstream Git snapshot is good practice unless there are patches you can not cherry-pick.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Have you talked with the Debian Multimedia Team at all?
<tsimonq2> Ideally it should go through Debian.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: I have not, but somebody else filed a bug against the Debian package and there has been no response.
<Eickmeyer> Additionally, all patches in the git version are required to fix the crashing per the developer.
<Eickmeyer> If nothing else, this should go into Universe. It would be nice to push it upstream to Debian, but as you alluded, a git snapshot wouldn't fly there. The developer fears that 0.90.1 won't be ready in time.
<Eickmeyer> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=901705
<ubottu> Debian bug 901705 in calf-plugins "Latest stable version is 0.90.0" [Normal,Open]
<Eickmeyer> I suppose for Debian's purposes I could go with the official 0.90.0 version, but the developer seems to be against this.
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: calf?
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Yes. It's a set of audio effects and instrument plugins.
<cyphermox> you absolutely can take a snapshot if that's what you really want
<cyphermox> it's just that snapshots are often not a good idea because unstability, bugs, etc.
<cyphermox> it depends on the project itself, if they release often, etc.
<Eickmeyer> The developer wants a snapshot to fix a major bug causing other software to crash.
<Eickmeyer> They don't release often. The latest release was in November and it was their first in over 2 years. 
<Eickmeyer> However, there were a number of bugs that, until recently, broke stuff.
<Eickmeyer> They don't think the next release (0.90.1) will be ready by October.
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: if you're okay with the bugs that might introduce; that's fine.
<cyphermox> because, well, you'll be stuck with the bugs, since it's mostly a package that only ubuntustudio uses
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: so; can you fix the packaging such that you're pulling a snapshot for the upstream code and keeping the debian packaging?
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: That's exactly what I'm doing. My pull is set to the github repo, and my push is set to my PPA currently.
<cyphermox> the version number looks odd for that
<Eickmeyer> How so?
<Eickmeyer> My pull from github treats it as a branch merge.
<cyphermox> ah, nevermind, I got confused by the makeup of it
<Eickmeyer> So, I can update as bug fixes happen.
<Eickmeyer> If I get bug reports, I'll throw them upstream unless it's a packaging issue.
<cyphermox> wait, no, the packaging is wrong
<Eickmeyer> What do I need to do?
<cyphermox> how did you get the snapshot in the first place?
<Eickmeyer> Pulled from the calf developer's github repo, added and tweaked the official /debian directory from the old version.
<cyphermox> the issue is that you have both the source and the debian/ directory in the same tarball right now; that's usually wrong (but not always), and certainly deviates from how things were
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> but generating the tarball?
<Eickmeyer> The source in git does not contain a /debian directory.
<cyphermox> right
<Eickmeyer> Launchpad is generating the tarball. I push to https://code.launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/ubuntustudio/+git/calf and autobuild.
<cyphermox> ah, I see
<cyphermox> right, you don't really want to go git add things to the upstream repo like that, it does confuse LP recipes
<Eickmeyer> That's why I'm not adding to the upstream repo, I'm just adding the /debian directory locally and pushing to the lp:~eeickmeyer/ubuntustudio/+git/calf repo.
<Eickmeyer> Additonally, I can cherry pick patches easily by pulling and checking the last commit.
<cyphermox> well, to LP with your current recipe, this is equivalent to it being straight in the upstream repo
<cyphermox> you could do this by keeping your debian/ directory in a separate branch or tree, and then compositing from the recipe
<cyphermox> ie: "merge fix-build lp:~bzr/bzr/fix-build"
<Eickmeyer> I tried that, it didn't work too well for a different package since it required modifications to the makefile as well. This was easier, but I see what you're saying. It is possible with this since it didn't require any modification to the source, just the /debian directory.
<cyphermox> such that say, your current tree is your debian/ stuff (as-is, doesn't need to change), and you have an untouched git source repo, then you can use the untouched git repo as the original code, add the merge command, etc
<cyphermox> even if it requires modifications to the source
<cyphermox> then you should use patches to handle this :)
<Eickmeyer> I see.
<cyphermox> otherwise, you might want to look at git-dpm; which can let you do all this, at the cost of a slightly more complicated way of patching the source
<cyphermox> https://wiki.debian.org/PackagingWithGit/GitDpm
<cyphermox> ^ that's what we use for grub2, but it *is* a bit complex, and people often get tripped up -- I certainly did at the beginning
<Eickmeyer> I'm trying to figure out how I'd create patches from the upstream git repo in my head right now.
<cyphermox> so; to simplify; what I'm looking for to sponsor would be a source package where you have the pristine upstream source in one tarball, and the debian stuff in a separate tarball (with the patches there if you need to change the upstream code -- use quilt if possible)
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: create patches from the upstream git?
<cyphermox> you mean for stuff that you need to change for your build, or for cherry-picking?
<Eickmeyer> Sure. So, for instance, a bug gets fixed upstream based on a bug report received on launchpad, how would I get those fixes downstream?
<cyphermox> you have two options
<cyphermox> if you use snapshots, and want all the commits from upstream, you can take a new snapshot
<cyphermox> otherwise you can pick individual commits and turn them into patches under debian/patches
<cyphermox> (I gave a class some years ago about how to do this, I'll look that up for you)
<cyphermox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1201/IncorporatingUpstreamChanges
<cyphermox> actually, you have a third option, convince upstream to make a release and upload that :)
<Eickmeyer> I might do that as well. But, if you want me to change to a tarball + merge /debian directory, I guess i need to work on that.
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: and I can share scripts I have used in the past to take snapshots for NetworkManager, with great results
<cyphermox> with that you could create the tarball, copy just debian/ from wherever you have it in, and make sure the version number is correct (my scripts tell you what it should be) and you can upload
<Eickmeyer> Looks like I need to make a "calf-packaging" repo with just debian/. 
<cyphermox> I use ~/bin/generate-git-source-version: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WNrSb4MpqW/
<Eickmeyer> Okay, so that just generates the tarball?
<cyphermox> and ~/bin/git-make-snapshot (which calls the previous script): https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/3bPKqv98Jp/
<cyphermox> pretty much
<cyphermox> it gets you the tarball with the upstream repo, and the right version number for a snapshot (whether it needs a ~ or + and the hash of the commit, etc.)
<Eickmeyer> Okay.  Since I've been using a simple "git push", how do I upload to LP?
<cyphermox> you have a gpg key in LP?
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<cyphermox> you can use "dput" to upload straight to a PPA
<cyphermox> ie. dput ppa:eickmeyer/ppa  file.changes
<cyphermox> that means you need the .changes file
<cyphermox> which you build with "debuild -S", or "gbp buildpackage -S", depending on how you keep the packaging
<Eickmeyer> Yes, but what about the initial tarball to combine with the packaging source with the recipe?
<cyphermox> I'm not sure I follow what you mean by that?
<Eickmeyer> So, the initial git snapshot would be a tarball, correct?
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> you want the tarball in a directory, then extract it to make calf-(version) in that directory, copy debian/ inside
<Eickmeyer> So, that needs to get to launchpad for the recipe to make it with a merge of the packaging source I upload separately, correct?
<Eickmeyer> OIC
<cyphermox> then running 'debuild -S' should get you the other files you need
<cyphermox> it makes no use of a recipe whatsoever
<Eickmeyer> So, you're saying I need to do all the packaging locally?
<cyphermox> not necessarily
<cyphermox> I was getting you through the steps to do things locally, manually, because it's the basis for how it works in general :)
<cyphermox> if you want to use a recipe in LP, it's as you pointed it out -- you want a repo for the debian packaging, and a repo for the upstream code
<cyphermox> then the recipe combines all that, and generates the source package that it uploads
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's what I was alluding to. :)
<cyphermox> using that, I think you also need some small extra bits in debian/ to make it work correctly
<Eickmeyer> Well, I think I got those extra bits otherwise it wouldn't have built using the recipe I used. All I'd be doing is taking the /debian package out of what I've got and put it in a separate repo, right?
<cyphermox> it would have built, just exactly the way it's built right now
<Eickmeyer> I mean, as a first step.
<cyphermox> which is incorrect -- it creates a native pacakge, with both the debian/ and upstream stuff together in the same tarball
<cyphermox> lemme think about it for a second
<cyphermox> maybe what I'd start with to get you working with the recipe again would be to begin with http://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/git-buildpackage/manual-html/gbp.import.new.upstream.html
<cyphermox> so; generating the tarball from upstream, then 'gbp import-orig $file'
<cyphermox> or http://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/git-buildpackage/manual-html/gbp.import.convert.html  if you want to do things from the repo you already have
<cyphermox> that might be even easier, you can git checkout -b from a commit to get the upstream branch, and keep the other one for your packaging -- you'll want to read more on it
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: I see the debian git repo is already in the right format for git-buildpackage
<Eickmeyer> Oh, that's good.
<cyphermox> that means if you start from https://salsa.debian.org/multimedia-team/calf.git; you could then load the snapshot (after creating the tarball, however you prefer to do it) with 'gbp import-orig $file'
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: There were a number of issues with the rules file that I had to fix, so that wouldn't work very well.
<cyphermox> it'll update all the upstream files (everything but debian/) to what ti should be, then you can commit any changes you need on top of that
<Eickmeyer> Okay, I see.
<Eickmeyer> Trying to wrap my head around this.
<cyphermox> there's no way around it being a bit of work
<cyphermox> but that'll get you a package I or any other ubuntu developer would be happy to upload, and you'll also easily be able to send patches to debian :)
<cyphermox> I know it's like drinking from the firehose right now :)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'm just trying to create the "calf-packaging" repo at the moment for the sake of the stuff I've done.
<cyphermox> I thought you already had that for the recipes
<cyphermox> hm. cooking smells upstairs mean I should probably go check on the dinner.
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Just pushed my packaging code: https://code.launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/ubuntustudio/+git/calf-packaging
<Eickmeyer> I'll see if I can get the upstream tarballed and then push patches into my packaging.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> why do you need patches in your packaging right now?
<cyphermox> I'm afraid we might have had a misunderstanding
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: I'm thinking all you need is the upstream tarball right now; because then you can take the git tree from debian, run gbp import-orig with the tarball; and finally copy over your debian/ directory and you'll be done
<cyphermox> in fact, you potentially already have part of it
<cyphermox> it depends if you have a 'pristine-tar' branch that already exists for your tree
<cyphermox> or an 'upstream' branch
<Eickmeyer> Could I push the source snapshot to a launchpad repo and have the recipe merge the source and packaging repo?
<Eickmeyer> For instance, local clone pushed to launchpad without any revisions.
<Eickmeyer> Nm, I see what You're saying.
<cyphermox> well, I think one git tree would be better than two :)
<cyphermox> then you won't need to change your recipe either
<Eickmeyer> I have the upstream tarball locally (did a git clone folllowed by git archive).
<Eickmeyer> Where should I put it on LP?
<cyphermox> there isn't really a location
<cyphermox> that's why I was recommending starting with the debian tree, and running gbp import-orid
<cyphermox> *import-orig
<cyphermox> that imports the tarball in the upstream branch to get things just right
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: would it help if I did the steps here, but not push, so you could see the set of commands and the idea behind them?
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that would be great.
<cyphermox> ok, give me a minute
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/24jqkkFSfp/
<cyphermox> I should make this in a wiki page, and I'm sure there's already one somewhere..
<cyphermox> there I did things as root because I was in an lxd container, but that was just so I could copy-paste correctly, you certainly shouldn't develop stuff as root :)
<Eickmeyer> Absolutely. :)
<cyphermox> hopefully this helps a bit
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: It should. Unfortunately, I have run out of time and must go to work. :(
<cyphermox> np, kind of busy here too now :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-06
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Thanks for the help! New package based on the process you gave me: https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/ppa1 (deleted the old PPA to keep version numbers from crying).
 * Eickmeyer goes to bed
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: there's a single issue with this, please push the upstream branch as well, otherwise I can't use the tree ;)
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Ah, okay.
<cyphermox> best is to push everything, so 'git push -u origin upstream ; git push -u origin --tags' or something like that
<cyphermox> the tags are important too for proper operation of gbp -- otherwise I will likely not be able to build the pacakge here
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Done
<Eickmeyer> I'll start a new build
<cyphermox> shouldn't need a new build?
<cyphermox> do you have changes needed?
<Eickmeyer> Nope. Oh, shoot. Build is now pending. *facepalm*
<Eickmeyer> It'll just rebuild what's already there.
<Eickmeyer> Looks like the build failed anyhow.
<Eickmeyer> Something is wrong with my PPA: "No_PUBKEY"
<Eickmeyer> I might have to make a new PPA and build it there.
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: New PPA, same as the old: https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<Eickmeyer> Deleting the "/ppa1" since it has signing problems.
<cyphermox> ok..
<cyphermox> I wouldn't be worried about whether the PPA stuff works or not, I can't take the packages from there
<cyphermox> I need to use what's in the git tree, and rebuild here at least the source package (but I'll rebuild all of it), to make sure it's all good
<Eickmeyer> Okay, in that case, it's ready.
<cyphermox> cool
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/#packages-which-break-other-packages-breaks
<cyphermox> are you sure that it should be "Replaces: calf-ladspa" in debian/control?
<cyphermox> section 7.4 further explains the difference between Breaks/Conflicts and replaces
<Eickmeyer> Per https://github.com/calf-studio-gear/calf/issues/181 calf-ladspa is broken and is no longer supported. If you want, I could change it to Breaks.
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: ^
<Eickmeyer> But, gotta go run time-sensitive errands.
<Eickmeyer> Should probably be "Conflicts".
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-07
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: Okay, so in reading the policy, this needs to happen: by installing calf-plugins, calf-ladspa needs to be removed. The two will conflict, and since calf-ladspa is depricated, calf-plugins nees to provide, confict, and replace.
<Eickmeyer> Basically, the root of much of the crashing problems (and in my experience, confirmed by the github issue I linked above) is the calf-ladspa package.
<Eickmeyer> Am I correct with provides, conflicts, AND replaces?
<captain-tux> Hi! o/
<Eickmeyer> Hi!
 * Eickmeyer isn't feeling too well, bad side-effect of a medication he's on.
<captain-tux> Ugh.. what have you done?
<Eickmeyer> I have restless leg syndrome, so my dr put me on a medication and had me ramp it up to the highest dose. I don't think the highest dose is good for me.
<captain-tux> Oh, not cool.
<eylul> hi and yikes
<eylul> Today I realized I completely forgot to do the pdf/epub of the guide.
<eylul> on it now
<Eickmeyer> Oh cool! The handbook got some press this week.
<Eickmeyer> I figure with the edits regarding VST plugins we're okay.
<eylul> yeah the omgbuntu article might have reminded me of it ;)
<Eickmeyer> Cool. Just going to do a copy/paste? I can get you a larger version of the cover if you'd like.
<eylul> actually unless we go for a print version we don't need a much higher resolution.. (I think)
<eylul> let me double check
 * eylul is having a tiny bit of an issue logging to the wiki
<Eickmeyer> I've had to let the login page just sit there. Quite annoying.
<eylul> yep it just took forever. :)
<Eickmeyer> Okay, here we go...
<Eickmeyer> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jul  7 19:01:39 2018 UTC.  The chair is Eickmeyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Eickmeyer> #chair krytarik eylul captain-tux OvenWerks
<meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer OvenWerks captain-tux eylul krytarik
 * Eickmeyer hopes he's not forgetting anyone
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow... I guess we can get started.
<Eickmeyer> We can continue the conversation we were having just before I hit the button RE: Handbook
<Eickmeyer> #topic Audio Handbook
<Eickmeyer> eylul: You said you were working on the pdf and epub, and I mentioned I could get you a larger version of the cover. My reasoning was because the small version wouldn't translate to a full-page cover on a PDF very well.
<Eickmeyer> I also added "by Peter Reppert and the Ubuntu Studio team" to the bottom-left-corner.
<Eickmeyer> er, bottom right corner
 * Eickmeyer doesn't know his left from his right today... ask captain-tux.
<eylul> haha 
<eylul> ok email it to me?
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Can do.
<Eickmeyer> Just gotta get Krita to export a PNG, probably just need the library installed.
<eylul> should I create a PPA for myself and stick the epub in there along with the pdf output? 
<eylul> epub can serve as source code
<Eickmeyer> Not a bad idea.
<eylul> until we find a good way to export epub/pdf directly out of wiki that is
<Eickmeyer> Then we can publish there and link to it. I was just going to do an attachment in the wiki and link it.
<Eickmeyer> But, I like your idea better.
<eylul> it should ideally be a PPA in the ubuntustudio assets
<eylul> but I assume if I can SOMEHOW put it into a dev ppa, you can pull it easily enough from there
<Eickmeyer> That's easy to do. Just make a local git repo and git push to lp:~eylul/ubuntustudio/+git/handbook or something like that.
<Eickmeyer> Or, just do it the easy way. :)
<eylul> which is?
<Eickmeyer> dput? Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<OvenWerks> I am sure we could make it one of the ubuntustudio-core owned subs
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<OvenWerks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-documentation
<OvenWerks> eylul: you are a member there anyway.
<Eickmeyer> So, one just needs to create a ppa under that.
<eylul> yep but you know me and versioning software.
<OvenWerks> the git can be under that too: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-documentation
<eylul> ok lets figure this out after the meeting I don't want to hog the time
 * Eickmeyer gives a thumbsup
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: You good with assisting with that?
<OvenWerks> ok
<Eickmeyer> #action eylul to create epub & pdf and upload to -documentation team ppa, OvenWerks to assist
<meetingology> ACTION: eylul to create epub & pdf and upload to -documentation team ppa, OvenWerks to assist
<Eickmeyer> Reason being is that it seems eylul and versioning software don't get along. :)
<OvenWerks> I don't know if I will be available right after meeting... but I will work with it.
<Eickmeyer> Cool
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> Cool, then.. moving right along...
<Eickmeyer> #topic Progress Reports
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic ubuntustudio-controls
<OvenWerks> ready to test, ready to release...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Is this ready for upload?
<OvenWerks> I need bug reports to do much else
<Eickmeyer> Sweet.  Let's give cyphermox, tsimonq2, and or Ross the heads-up on this.
<Eickmeyer> (they will probably see this, but Ross will need an email)
<OvenWerks> The best test case is to install on a non-ubuntustudio flavour to test rt fix
<OvenWerks> (worked for me)
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha. Truth be told, I'm on a Kubuntu install that I converted to Ubuntu Studio at the moment.
<Eickmeyer> -controls seems to run rather smoothly in my setup, but qjackctl doesn't like it, and other than Catia I have yet to find a good way to monitor Jack with it running from -controls.
<OvenWerks> carla works too.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, but carla doesn't show xruns.
<OvenWerks> if qjackctl is started after jack is running it works fine
<eylul> we did have a few new people who offered to help. we could reach out to them too, and ask them to test the daily image? assuming it will be there?
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, most have said they'd be up for testing.
<Eickmeyer> Well, should we have them subscribe to the Autobuilds PPA?
<eylul> we should probably contact them via email first
<eylul> then surprise. :) 
<OvenWerks> Is there anything else in there that may be a problem?
<eylul> that's a good question
<Eickmeyer> I'm subscribed to it and haven't seen any problems.
<OvenWerks> ya it looks ok.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it should be possible to build Catia separate from Cadence.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Not in my experience. It depends on carla-data.
<Eickmeyer> er, cadence-data
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: :)
<OvenWerks> so maybe write a bug against -controls to show xruns as a start
<Eickmeyer> When you install catia, it only pulls-in cadence-data, so cadence itself doesn't get pulled-in, though cadence will pull catia in.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Okay, I'll do that.
<Eickmeyer> Okay. OvenWerks, do you want to do the call-for-testing email for -controls?
<OvenWerks> I could detect cadence is installed and limit what controls can do in that case.
<Eickmeyer> Oh, not a bad idea! That way I could get rid of the Breaks: line in the debian/control file.
<OvenWerks> But I don't use cadence because it is quite intrusive
<OvenWerks> Once cadence is installed, pulse will no longer start without cadence running.
<Eickmeyer> Right, unless you edit ~/.pulse/client.conf
<OvenWerks> That may be ok for audio users, but not for graphics only users
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I don't think cadence should be installed by default, but it has been requested.
<OvenWerks> hopefully a good -controls will help that not to be needed
<OvenWerks> I will write the email. I was hoping for a release first though.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Honestly, the features in Cadence, aside from the pulse bridge, are available in Catia alone.
<OvenWerks> I will include how to add the autobuilds PPA
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<Eickmeyer> #action OvenWerks to put a call-for-testing out to the -devel ML, instructions to add autobuild PPA.
<meetingology> ACTION: OvenWerks to put a call-for-testing out to the -devel ML, instructions to add autobuild PPA.
<Eickmeyer> Shall we move on to the next topic?
<OvenWerks> I have no more for that
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic ubuntustudio-plasma
<Eickmeyer> Any progress?
<OvenWerks> not really.
<OvenWerks> I have been working on Ardour for the past few weeks.
<OvenWerks> I will have a seed up soon, after that I don't know how to go about getting a second ISO built
<Eickmeyer> Okay. I noticed a cool file in /etc that configures the "About This System" to customize the distro & logo.
<Eickmeyer> That sould be a matter of contacting the release team.
<OvenWerks> which file?
<Eickmeyer> Trying to remember...
 * OvenWerks notes that changing the os-release file may have odd problems
<Eickmeyer> Nah, it's a simple little config file specifically for the plasma system info app.
<OvenWerks> Ah, ok
<Eickmeyer> KInfoCenter
<Eickmeyer> /etc/xdg/kcm-about-distrorc
<Eickmeyer> That's it.
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow, anything else on this topic?
<OvenWerks> ok, I will be doing the plasma seed as a bzr repo for now. I don't know how they want git repos set
<Eickmeyer> They might not want seeds as git yet for all I know.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2 would have more info.
<OvenWerks> I know they wated master with branch per cycle or something like that
<OvenWerks> bzr has repo per cycle
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Branch per cycle makes sense.
<OvenWerks> (or maybe even tag per cyce)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<Eickmeyer> Shall we move on?
<OvenWerks> ok]
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Plymouth Theme
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Any progress?
<Eickmeyer> (looks like we may need to come back to this)
<Eickmeyer> Okay, moving along for now. eylul, if you come back, we'll go back to this topic.
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Website theme and backend access)
<Eickmeyer> Still roadblocked on this one. Honestly, I haven't been working too much on the administrative end on this, the past two weeks have been crazy and I've been learning a lot about packaging.
<Eickmeyer> So, that's my progress report.
<Eickmeyer> Anybody have anything to add?
<eylul> no progress on plymouth theme
<Eickmeyer> Okay.
<Eickmeyer> No worries.
<Eickmeyer> :)
<eylul> :) 
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Packaging for Carla
<OvenWerks> please test?
<Eickmeyer> So, I've got it packaged in a very dirty way, and it doesn't include the wine bridges, which looks like they have to be packaged separately to keep carla from pulling-in wine.
<OvenWerks> same as lmms
<Eickmeyer> I ran into a compilation error on the 32-bit side where it just plain wouldn't compile even though I had the right dependencies and everything.
<Eickmeyer> So, that's where I'm at. Testing Carla would probably be good, but since it's just a git snapshot with a /debian directory added, any bug reports will have to be reported upstream.
<Eickmeyer> Any questions?
<Eickmeyer> Okay, moving along
<Eickmeyer> #topic Discussion
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Replacing lightdm with sddm
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I believe this was your idea.
<OvenWerks> ya
<Eickmeyer> The floor is yours, my friend. :)
<OvenWerks> It deals with wayland sessions better
<Eickmeyer> Would this be something we can or should do this cycle?
<OvenWerks> I noticed that when I added plasma, that it gave two entries in the login page using lightdm. As happens the first one was really for plasma with wayland and so failed.
<OvenWerks> it failed in such a way that I needed to reboot
<Eickmeyer> Yikes
<Eickmeyer> And, from what I saw you write before, sddm doesn't have this problem.
<OvenWerks> using the sddm at least puts a (wayland) behind anything for that
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. And from what I've seen, sddm is fairly customizable, so we could even come up with our own theme from that.
<OvenWerks> Now it is possible to configure both sddm and lightdm to look in a different directory for the desktop files, so that is another solution.
<OvenWerks> that is another thing.
<OvenWerks> US-plasma will probably, at first come with sddm
<OvenWerks> so maybe test it there
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. So, maybe hold-off on switching xfce to sddm until next cycle?
<OvenWerks> wayland is coming... so is fusion power
<OvenWerks> I think we should consider it testing this cycle if we can get us-plasma going
<Eickmeyer> Okay. So, we'll focus on us-plasma then and having that use sddm. The default breeze theme for sddm in Plasma 5.13 is really pretty.
<OvenWerks> If people really like it, I think it would not be hard to switch
<Eickmeyer> We could take that and customize it to use our US background.
<OvenWerks> yes
<Eickmeyer> Cool. I like this idea.
<Eickmeyer> So, we'll test this cycle and implement in Xfce if all goes well.
<OvenWerks> eylul: as an aside, I have taken the jpg and reloaded it as a png, but it may be better to use a png made from the original.
<eylul> jpg of...
<eylul> the background. 
<Eickmeyer> #action sddm to be default display manager in Ubuntu Studio Plasma. If it goes well, look at making it default for Ubuntu Studio Xfce.
<meetingology> ACTION: sddm to be default display manager in Ubuntu Studio Plasma. If it goes well, look at making it default for Ubuntu Studio Xfce.
<eylul> The original is a tif and jpg that were edited in photography. It is in my todo list to check what can be done to reduce the file size. 
<eylul> I'll just roll that into it? I just didn't have a lot of time to experiment with tracing etc
<Eickmeyer> I'd say just convert the tif to png and replace what's already there.
<OvenWerks> The png is there now so there is no rush
<eylul> I do have it converted... somewhere
<eylul> I'll email it
<OvenWerks> that sounds good.
<Eickmeyer> Excellent. :)
<Eickmeyer> BTW, it's my background now. :)
<eylul> :))))
<Eickmeyer> Okay, speaking of wallpapers...
<OvenWerks> Ya, it is in autobuilds
<eylul> I also was planning to do several color versions. epub/pdf first that next. then I will look into the plymouth theme?
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Wallpaper Contest
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Absolutely.
<Eickmeyer> So, we had talked about the Ubuntu Studio users coming up with wallpapers of their own.
<Eickmeyer> Showcasing the best  of the US community.
<Eickmeyer> I think with all the other flavors doing their wallpaper contests, we should start ours.
<Eickmeyer> Question is, where should we host it?
<eylul> we have had one... 
<eylul> for 16.04 possibly?
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I saw some stuff for 16.04.
<OvenWerks> That sounds like the last one.
<Eickmeyer> Should we have people link us their work and post it on the wiki, then vote on the top 10?
<Eickmeyer> Or, vote to create a top 10?
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I would argue that all new seeds need to be Git.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: There's our answer. tsimonq2, I think OvenWerks is going to need some help with that down the road.
<Eickmeyer> #chair tsimonq2
<meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer OvenWerks captain-tux eylul krytarik tsimonq2
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: ok, so just load it with no cosmic?
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: Huh?
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Sure.
<OvenWerks> in bzr we have: lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.cosmic
<Eickmeyer> #action tsimonq2 to assist OvenWerks with ubuntustudio-plasma seed
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to assist OvenWerks with ubuntustudio-plasma seed
<OvenWerks> for git it would be just ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio?
<tsimonq2> Look at how Lubuntu does it :) https://git.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/lubuntu
<OvenWerks> ok
<tsimonq2> So https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: we want a second iso ubuntustudio-plasma, same thing?
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: That needs some tweaks in lp:livecd-rootfs, lp:ubuntu-cdimage, and a few other misc places, but essentially, yes.
<OvenWerks> I expect I don't have access for the rest :)
<Eickmeyer> So, once we have the seed, is it a matter of contacting the release team?
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: Instead of https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntustudio you would have https://git.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntustudio-plasma
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Yep.
<tsimonq2> (I don't have access either :) )
<OvenWerks> Ok, I will do that
<Eickmeyer> So, then infinity and slangasek are our contacts once we have the seed ready.
<tsimonq2> It's generally useful to talk to someone who is an Archive Administrator, is on the Release Team, and works for Canonical. I always personally bug infinity and slangasek (<3) but there are other options too, depending on who you're comfortable with.
<Eickmeyer> slanasek has always been cool with me.
<tsimonq2> ("Works for Canonical" is not something I usually look for, but in this case, they have SSH access as Canonical employees where I don't.)
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Then there you go. :)
<tsimonq2> Once you have a seed for Plasma, you'll need a separate metapackage.
<tsimonq2> I can help with getting that uploaded.
<Eickmeyer> Okay, cool. I'm starting to run low on time, so I think we need to get back to the wallpaper contest.
<tsimonq2> Thanks. :)
<Eickmeyer> No, thank YOU!
<Eickmeyer> :)
<Eickmeyer> So, how should users submit their creation? Email us a link and we post that on the wiki? Then we vote at a later time?
 * OvenWerks needs to go as well, my lovely Laura is calling. :)
<eylul> :)))
<Eickmeyer> Okay, we'll table the rest of the topics for next meeting.
<Eickmeyer> Everybody okay with that?
<eylul> I can sort out how we could theorically do the uploading, have them email and then put it somewhere in website. the voting part. I'd really look into how we did it last time
<eylul> because I came in right after it happened. 
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Sounds good.
<Eickmeyer> #action eylul to look into how the last wallpaper contest was run
<meetingology> ACTION: eylul to look into how the last wallpaper contest was run
<eylul> errr
<eylul> haha actually I was hoping we could ask on email.
<Eickmeyer> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<eylul> I think the person who ran it might still be around
<Eickmeyer> Okay, then we can take the discussion to email. :)
<eylul> *nods*
 * eylul really doesn't want to take on more work, before clearing the backlog
<Eickmeyer> Okay, well, the next topic is something that can wait (replacing abandoned patchage with Catia).
<eylul> *nods*
<Eickmeyer> Just something to think about.
<Eickmeyer> And the installability of Cadence is something I can work on with OvenWerks throughout the next two weeks.
<Eickmeyer> Everybody okay with ending the meeting here?
<eylul> from a user perspective I love patchage, and if catia has the same tools it would be wonderful to have it. (I use carla, as a sort of replacement, but it doesn't show alsa midi inputs)
<eylul> (otherwise is wonderful)
<eylul> yes for me
<Eickmeyer> Catia shows alsa midi inputs, but it's considered experimental. :/
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> Allrighty then...
<Eickmeyer> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jul  7 20:18:13 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2018/ubuntustudio-devel.2018-07-07-19.01.moin.txt
<eylul> Carla shows jack midi inputs btw
<eylul> just not alsa ones
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<eylul> I won't be done with the epub tonight. this basically turned into, manually coding everything which will be a bit slow. 
<eylul> but... please send me the image asap so that I do replace it
<Eickmeyer> Absolutely.
<eylul> (and yes the one we have on wiki is REALLY tiny ;) )
<Eickmeyer> I'll get right on that.
<eylul> also who should be the preface credited to?
<eylul> you or Ubuntu Studio team.
<Eickmeyer> You can credit me for the preface.
<eylul> *goes to write it*
<Eickmeyer> Okay, I'll get that to you in the next 30 minutes. 
<Eickmeyer> I'll get the meeting notes out later this evening.
 * Eickmeyer always feels good after these meetings, we get stuff DONE! :)
<eylul> thanks :)
<eylul> doing the releases is a bit of a messy procedure, in that we do need to redo everything, or reflect the changes to wiki manually (which I think will be at least direct copy paste of the whole page, but makes editing the epub required step, rather than doing so at the wiki) I don't have a good answer to this yet
<eylul> but I'd rather have the epub/pdf out, then figure it out
<Eickmeyer> Email is away
<eylul> thanks :)
<eylul> received :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-08
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: I was just informed by the Calf developers that they have released 0.90.1. I'll redo the package since it would no longer be a git snapshot.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-01
<teward> Eickmeyer: i presume no movement on dpf-plugins
<teward> :P
<Eickmeyer> teward: Not so far.
<Eickmeyer> SRU of ubuntustudio-installer is getting attention, though.
<studiobot> <teward001> well it was the weekend
<studiobot> <teward001> :P
<studiobot> <teward001> most of the AAs are Canonical IIRC
<studiobot> <teward001> unrelated, more coffee is reqiured.
<studiobot> <teward001> ERR:COFFEENEEDED
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-03
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer et al: dpf-plugins was rejected details in the bug
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 Yes, I got that email.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep and I just did too :p
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Not hard stuff to fix, but watchfiles baffle me.
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah those are evil.  Once things are fixed hit me up.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Ok, but I have no idea how to do a watch file. I got the release from the github page, so I don't think he investigated.
<teward> i commented accordingly in the bug give me a bit
<teward> i'll do some work
<teward> Eickmeyer: remind me where the GH page is again?
<Eickmeyer> teward: https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF-Plugins/
<teward> Eickmeyer: i'll commit a debian/watch
<Eickmeyer> teward: ack
<Eickmeyer> teward: I'm working on the copyright file. Looks like I just missed those for whatever reason.
<teward> ok
<teward> unrelated: https://wiki.debian.org/debian/watch#GitHub
<teward> this was a good starting point for the watch :)
<Eickmeyer> Indeed!
<teward> Eickmeyer: we may need the git retagged though it did a version tag :|
<teward> or we can always version bump xD
<Eickmeyer> Ew
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, falktx likes to put that v in front of everything. :P
<teward> no i mean our tag
<teward> https://git.launchpad.net/dpf-plugins/tag/?id=1.2-0ubuntu1 <-- probably tagged from upload :|
<Eickmeyer> Oh, yeah, that's not good.
<teward> AIUI that was your doing :P
<teward> by tagging it as 1.2-0ubuntu1
<Eickmeyer> teward: I'll delete the tag and retag with a force.
<Eickmeyer> As soon as I know you're not doing anything else to it.
<teward> i've added the watch.  but lets retag after you fix all the issues sil pointed out
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<teward> I am updating the changelog to show the debian/watch was added by me though that's my next commit (I forgot to do it in one commit oops)
<teward> though it might not be needed heh
<Eickmeyer> That's fine.
<teward> Eickmeyer: i did make a rev to debian/copyright, added my name to the debian/* folder copyrights since i've added some things as well (debian/watch)
<teward> i haven't pushed it yet i'm waiting :)
<teward> unrelated I got PGP mail working on my android phone and my iPad xD
<teward> yay for encryption
<Eickmeyer> W00t
<Eickmeyer> Now, if only PGP encryption was more widespread... :P
<teward> :P
<teward> I use it for communications with MITRE
<teward> and others :P
<Eickmeyer> teward: Retaggged, fixed, ready for upload (again)
<teward> Eickmeyer: did you drop the versioned dependency in debian/control?
<teward> as was suggested by sil?
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yes.
<teward> hail hydra :P
<Eickmeyer> haha
<teward> (upload in progress slow as heck though)
<Eickmeyer> The servers have been funny lately.
<teward> nah the bottleneck is my side
<teward> guest wifi at work is slow as heck
<teward> compared to my stable connections at home
<Eickmeyer> Ah, I see.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-04
<Eickmeyer> @tsimonq2: RE: pulseeffects & lsp-plugins: I have the feeling that lsp-plugins won't get accepted. lsp-plugins will not build (and is not supported for building) on PowerPC and s390x. Unless that's not a show-stopper. Therefore, pulseeffects, since it depends on lsp-plugins, would be broken in powerpc and s390x. 
<Eickmeyer> Correct me if I'm wrong.
<studiobot> <teward001> it wont migrate from proposed no, but AA might override unless you define in the packaging the compatible arches.
<studiobot> <teward001> it could still be rejected though.
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer ^
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: That was regarding Debian.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-05
<studiobot> <teward001> ah
<studiobot> <teward001> *didn't see the Debian reference, but now sees it after scroling back*
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-29
<RikMills> plasma 5.19.2 has landed in groovy-proposed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-30
<RikMills> https://kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5-19-testing-in-groovy-gorrila/
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: \o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-01
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: was just wondering if you had repacked mcpdisp so I can test it. before releasing it. (built from latest git)
<OvenWerks> The big change is making it -o0 :)
<OvenWerks> The rest is spelling kinds of things.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I packaged it, but the version I have is kinda not working, and I haven't rebuilt it since. Do you have a new release?
<OvenWerks> I want to make sure it works when packaged before I mark a release
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I'll see if I can do a git pull and push that in, but I probably won't get to it until tomorow.
<OvenWerks> no problem
<OvenWerks> the problem was getting it to build while packaging... worked fine otherwise
<Eickmeyer> Right. That's why I did it via my PPA before.
<OvenWerks> evrything is 0.1.2 except the tag.
<Eickmeyer> Ok. I'll do it in the morning. Headed to bed now.
<OvenWerks> gn
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Here's my build of mcpdsp: https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/19533996/+files/mcpdisp_0.1.1+git20200621-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<Eickmeyer> Give it a whirl.
<OvenWerks> Thankyou lets see if I can do this by remote :P
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: that looks old
<OvenWerks> Say june 21
<OvenWerks> ok build log looks right though
<OvenWerks> Ok, that loads and runs
<OvenWerks> so setting -O0 worked
<OvenWerks> That probably means in the long run I need to explicitly manage memory differently because something in -O1 is trying to put all my buffers (well some the ring buffer will be right) on the stack
<OvenWerks> firefox seems to explicity open nauty-lis instead of the DE default file manager. There are so many things one cannot do with naughty-lis that Thunar can do... like open remote locations (at least it is hard to find)
<OvenWerks> one more test to do.
<OvenWerks> Ok, it does actually display the info when hooked up to Ardour :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: So if I tag it as a 0.1.2 release will that work for packaging? is there anything else I need to do?
 * OvenWerks hates "naughty loss of functionality"
<OvenWerks> Looks pretty good: https://i.imgur.com/KenRrmX.png
<OvenWerks> somethings not right -V still shows 0.1.0
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If you tag for 0.1.2, it has very little impact on packaging except the version number that gets submitted at this point.
<Eickmeyer> And if -V is wrong, it's a good thing you *haven't* done that. :D
<OvenWerks> except the -V, -h show the right version on a self build
<OvenWerks> also looking at the build log: Project version: 0.1.2 and: -DVERSION="0.1.2"... let me try downloading the file again.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I do not know how the Version 0.1.0 ends up in the package. The build log shows 0.1.2, the build from the same package shows right version here.
<OvenWerks> The file name for the resulting package does not look like today however.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, the version number I used is 0.1.1+git20200621: the date of the commit.
<OvenWerks> right.
<Eickmeyer> That's all I saw. I didn't see any newer commits.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I did remove the Makefile which should not be needed/used
<Eickmeyer> Yes, if it's a meson build. Debhelper is smart enough to figure out how to build with what the package build deps are.
<OvenWerks> the makefile was left over from before meson, I thought I had removed it already.
<Eickmeyer> It probably wasn't being used anyhow.
<OvenWerks> doing a grep 0.1.0 * shows nothing.
<Eickmeyer> Weird.
<OvenWerks> so anyway, I am going to tag a release (bug fix)
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks> The main thing is that it runs
<OvenWerks> maybe I would be better calling it 0.2.0?
<OvenWerks> but really it is a bugfix for 0.1.0
<OvenWerks> so 0.1.2 is correct
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: here it is: https://github.com/ovenwerks/mcpdisp/releases/tag/mcpdisp-0.1.2
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, I'm trying to test it, but I'm in a pickle: I can't get studio controls to start Jack.
<OvenWerks> Latest from cit?
<OvenWerks> git
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> known problem
<Eickmeyer> Oh?
<OvenWerks> fixed here already
<OvenWerks> git was not ready for use, but needed to be made so I could have a full install
<OvenWerks> (on 18.04
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I see. Yeah, I yeeted it into Groovy. My bad.
<OvenWerks> I can push to working (still not ready)
<Eickmeyer> Of course. "1.99.x" implies not ready until 2.0.
<Eickmeyer> Not much of a matter anyhow. I used qjackctl to test.
<OvenWerks> found out why -V might be 0.1.0... it seems there is an old copy in /usr/local/bin
<OvenWerks> when I run the one in /usr/bin/ everything works
<OvenWerks> fixed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-02
<Eickmeyer> Ah, good.
<OvenWerks> so next step is?
<Eickmeyer> Well, it's subitted to teward for sponsorship.
<Eickmeyer> I probably won't have much difficulty getting it into Fedora either, which simply requires a package review and me getting off my butt and actually writing the .spec.
<OvenWerks> hmm, I already have someone building mcpdisp on MacOS Catalina.. and running. So adding meson and -O0 has made a difference for someone other than package builders :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: \o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-03
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am thinking to disallow setting pulse connections unless jack is running
<OvenWerks> That seems... yucky
<OvenWerks> I think I will instead show: disconnected, old choice, each device we know about with only ports 1 and 2, system with 1 to 18 as now?
 * OvenWerks thinks thinking out loud can be helpful  :)
<OvenWerks> I will add an aditional entry that says: please start jack for the real list of ports
<OvenWerks> So the first entry would be: no connection, then the users last choice (if different from none) and make this one active, then a warning that jack is not active and the ports can not be seen.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That sounds good.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-04
<OvenWerks> I thought I was done with the GUI... but what about mono devices.
<OvenWerks> with multi-port devices we assume stereo out from pulse get an odd/even pair... if a device has only 1 input (I have three or four of them and I guess some internal ones are mono too)
<OvenWerks> In my case that would end up as the last one, so I took care of that first.
<OvenWerks> Then I thought what if the mono device was not the last device (or in my case I can add two of them)
<OvenWerks> doubled the lines of code for that part of things :P
<OvenWerks> Anyway, GUI figured out, just have to do outputs... in case there is a mono one. (though I have not seen this)
<OvenWerks> (and I guess can't test it)
