#ubuntu-marketing 2006-08-07
<johnlittle> yo marketing peeps
<adamant1988> hey johnlittle
<elkbuntu> johnlittle, the counter is getting similar windows viewage, but i think alot of that is exposure to the buttons in forums and on blogs
<adamant1988> Getting the word out is a big thing.
<adamant1988> When Ubuntu reaches the point redhat was at, where it is synonymous with Linux, people will start pushing for it on Dells and HPs
<johnlittle> Yeah blog exposure is very useful
<adamant1988> and when Dell and HP start offering Ubuntu it will start seeing market share
<iCod> hey
<iCod> hey?
<adamant1988> hey
<iCod> what's up?
<adamant1988> not much
<adamant1988> brb
<iCod> k, just curious since I've been away
<iCod> hey richj
<johnlittle> ugh..45 minutes from Monday
<adamant1988> heh
<johnlittle> Nix you around?
<adamant1988> nixternal ping
<nixternal> whats up!
<nixternal> dfajl
<nixternal> afda
<nixternal> hehe
<adamant1988> Yes, he's around johnlittle
<nixternal> im gettin' ready to do some BOFH stuff ;)
<adamant1988> BOFH?
<nixternal> bastard operator from hell
* adamant1988 hates acronyms. 
<nixternal> i have a guy in one of my chans being a little immature and anti CoC kinda sorta
<adamant1988> I'm reading... The economics of Linux are fascinating.
<adamant1988> ooooh, what channel?
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> im half asleep for some reason
<johnlittle> I may pull an all nighter..tons of stuff to do before morning
<johnlittle> I'm too old for that :(
<nixternal> i just might passout soon
<adamant1988> that's cool johnlittle... try some skyrocket
<nixternal> heh, im only 32, still young
<nixternal> haha
<johnlittle> I'll stick to coffee :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i could use some actually
<adamant1988> pfft... coffee is for the weak
<adamant1988> and it tastes bad.   Try some "bawls" (has so much caffeine there is grips on the bottle).
<nixternal> mmm bawls ;)
<johnlittle> I like Monster...but coffee is my first love
<adamant1988> I started with coffee when I was 2
<adamant1988> I'm so immune to caffeine that if I don't get it in LARGE doses it doesn't do anything for me.
<johnlittle> Or just drop a couple crack rocks in a cup of crystal lite...mmmm
<adamant1988> I can go through a 12 pack of coke in a couple hours and still sleep on time
<adamant1988> I'm up right now because I'm reading about the economic models with Linux... which ones are going to lead to more OEM installations etc.
<johnlittle> Yeah i need a few million milligrams of caffine to be functional..i can't get a buzz on it anymore
<johnlittle> a true addict
<johnlittle> nixternal?
<nixternal> hello
<johnlittle> Question..
<johnlittle> How many people are active on the marketing team..as far as you know?
<nixternal> comes and goes really, but you will see 20+ daily i believe
<adamant1988> depends on what you mean by active...
<johnlittle> Heh
<nixternal> right now, i think most of the people over -> are looking for a little direction really, as I know I find myself looking for it as well
<nixternal> i feel more is getting done marketing wise with the LoCo's over the Marketing Team
<nixternal> that is why i feel there needs to be a collaboration between the 2
<adamant1988> I've been focusing more on my local projects more than anything
<johnlittle> Surprised there isn't
<nixternal> with the LoCo's you have probably over 1000 Ubuntu advocates out there working
<nixternal> there has always been talk, just no action
<johnlittle> It's like a lot of volunteer work. You can't wait for somebody to tell you what to do...just do it. But then you risk stepping on toes
<nixternal> exactly
<johnlittle> Who sets the deliverables for the team..or does it work like that?
<nixternal> there needs to be a set "Marketing Agenda" for Ubuntu in it's entirety, and truthfully, I think Canonical needs to set that agenda if they want a real MT
<nixternal> nobody does...which i kind of think that is an issue
<nixternal> i know there are others who disagree, but I had worked for SuSE prior to them being taken over by Novell, and their Marketing Team was awesome
<johnlittle> Seems like it. I expected there to be a Canonical person driving it before I joined.
<nixternal> they were a German based company and owned market share at one point, and it was community driven as well, to a point
<johnlittle> Yeah I was SUSE before Ubuntu
<nixternal> the rules/guidelines, as well as the type of stuff that needed to get done was put out by employees of course, and then the community ran with it
<nixternal> Ubuntu has "Word of Mouth" marketing right now and that is it
<nixternal> granted nothign beats "Word of Mouth", we must need more Mouths
<nixternal> we need to create content that will push non-users to those mouths to learn more about Ubuntu
<johnlittle> It's been effective but the more ambitious stuff like magazines would probably benefit from a bit more structure
<nixternal> for instance, we had 90 people yesterday join #ubuntu-classroom for an IRC lecture
<nixternal> a lot of the people were using Windows and mIRC
<johnlittle> Yep..thats why I created ubuntu video
<nixternal> i have emails from people who want to switch, and asked for my help...i am open to everyone all the time
<nixternal> just from the class i got 10 interested switchers
<nixternal> they "heard" about ubuntu on digg, heard about the classroom on digg, and i did some work to get it pimped
<nixternal> i had 2 people message me asking what exactly ubuntu was
<nixternal> i told one guy i would ship him an Ubuntu CD, a Kubuntu CD, and some stickers for his enjoyment and to check out
<nixternal> he was on dial up, so i wasn't expecting him to dl the isos
<elkbuntu> or wait 4-10 weeks for delivery and have time to forget all about it ;)
<nixternal> hehe ya
<nixternal> i shipped him 5 CDs yesterday, and emailed him information on each CD i sent him
<johnlittle> Is the marketing team interfacing with LUGs at all?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> but the LoCo's do
<nixternal> right now I am currently in 5 different LUGs just to keep up
<nixternal> not in as a member, but i frequent the meetings
<Madpilot> 5 LUGs? Wow, we've only got one locally, and it's more into beer drinking & Gentoo :|
<nixternal> ya same here Madpilot
<nixternal> ChiLUG is good though
<Madpilot> beer drinking I'm in favour of; Gentoo I don't see the point of :)
<nixternal> I haven't made it to one of their events, but they are all pretty cool guys and have a good setup going
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I will be the "Ubuntu/Debian" guy for the College of DuPage LUG here within the next few weeks
<johnlittle> Ubuntu probably has all the brand awareness it needs in the linux world by now though
<nixternal> they/we just did an install fest...and their typical 15 to 20 people was darn close to 100
<nixternal> and about 80 were Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu installs ;)
<johnlittle> heh not surprising
<nixternal> I know I made one professor who envies Slackware MAD!!!
<nixternal> i just hope i never get him as a professor during the courses i am about to embark on ;)
<johnlittle> lol
<ormiret> nixternal: the "Public relations" section in your wiki mockups: was that for mathewrevell's press project?
<nixternal> yes sir
<ormiret> OK I'll leave that bit for him to write
<nixternal> i have no clue what is up with any of that truthfully
<ormiret> :)
<nixternal> that whole thing is a mess yet
<matthewrevell> Morning all. Been PC-free all weekend. Have I missed anything?
<Burgundavia> not much
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: the marketing team issue of memberships seems to have died down
<johnlittle> He missed the launch of http://www.ubuntuvideo.com :)
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: Cool. I think we can safely mark that one as, "Mistake made during transitional period" :)
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> thankfully LP is far better at membership stuff than even 6 months ago
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: I noticed a thread about that in the ML. Just reading John Baer's proposals at the moment
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: john baer seems very enthusiastic
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: What does team membership let someone do? Rather a basic question, I realise
<johnlittle> Good question
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: nothing but a shiny button on their user page
<Burgundavia> "feeling of inclusion"
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: Yeah, which is great.
<Burgundavia> yep, both very good but quite "soft"
<matthewrevell> Ah, superb
<Burgundavia> we need more people helping out the existing projects, like UWN and the Knot release reports, like I mentioned in my email
<Burgundavia> ideas are good but fairly cheap, talk is cheaper
<johnlittle> It's probably best that I created ubuntuvideo and then joined the team lol
<matthewrevell> I say "superb" because it means that what I'm about to suggest is probably worthwhile: let's stop moderating memberships.
<Burgundavia> sure that works
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: Agreed. I think people in the team are coming round to the idea that the magazine idea wasn't yet fully formed and that other projects need the help more
<Burgundavia> yep
<johnlittle> Why don't some of you busier folks identify tasks that can be offloaded to newer members and post them..put them up for grabs
<Burgundavia> and SU seems to have died the "fridge is now working" death, which is a good death
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: marketing is now an open team
<matthewrevell> SU is only dead because Jenda is on holiday
<matthewrevell> I believe
<nixternal> [02:47]  <johnlittle> Why don't some of you busier folks identify tasks that can be offloaded to newer members and post them..put them up for grabs
<nixternal> great idea ;)
<Burgundavia> nixternal: I did
<Burgundavia> we need an open task list, on the wiki
<nixternal> i know you did Burgundavia as that helps out you and I tremendously
<matthewrevell> nixternal: I'm definitely up for working on UWN
<Burgundavia> let me edit the wiki page
<matthewrevell> brb
<nixternal> for Kubuntu Knot release reports, I pretty much have that covered
<nixternal> i have a decent grasp with what is new and exciting for the knot releases since I work along side #kubuntu-devel as much as possible
<matthewrevell> I have to admit ignorance when it comes to knot reprots
<nixternal> there needs to be Xubuntu and Edubuntu release reports as well, and I am sure the Ubuntu release report is pretty large
<nixternal> matthewrevell: i was in the same boat for knot1 release, but i was thrown in it, and i could either sink or swim...luckily i swam ;)
<matthewrevell> I'll reply to Burgundavia's post, with a "okay, enough ideas, let's do some work" :)
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: tbbbhh...
<nixternal> my knot 2 release report, which is still "draft", is getting rave reviews ;)
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Hey, more than happy to help out, I'll follow your lead
<nixternal> which if it wasn't for Burgundavia lighting a fire under my @$$, i would have been working on it at the last second im sure ;)
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: ?
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: that was me blowing a raspberry at you
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: Oh :) BTW - not suggesting we need more work from you, dude
<matthewrevell> :)
<nixternal> heh, i also have a manual merge via MoM as well..i gotta get that done today, or Hobbsee will be chasing me with a pointy stick for sure
<matthewrevell> johnlittle's idea of an, erm, ideas list may work better now that an active group is starting to form within the team.
<matthewrevell> Sorry, not ideas list, "things to do" list.
<nixternal> i swore there used to be one for the MT
<matthewrevell> Previously, it's been a bit pie in the sky.
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: right, my plate is already pretty crowded
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Yeah, but it was stuff like, "Get me a mockup for this site or other"
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: I'm pretty busy too but I can definitely squeeze in some kind of "to do" list
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: I'll see what's already there, and amend it, or create a new one
<matthewrevell> nixternal: You still working on the MT wiki pages?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/GetInvolved
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Would love to help.
<Burgundavia> updated for actual projects in motion
<Burgundavia> feel free to add stuff
<nixternal> cool matthewrevell, they are open for editing
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: oh right
<matthewrevell> :)
<nixternal> feel free to write away on it if you would like
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Sure thing :)
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Didn't want to jump in if you had a plan underway
<nixternal> i have actually neglected it for the past couple of weeks, one due to vacation, plus edgy work and trying to get in with the doc team a little more
<matthewrevell> We've got to lose the team purpose statement on the MT home page
<matthewrevell> nixternal: fair enough
<nixternal> the plan is there, it just needs content and some loving ;)
<Burgundavia> the fewer wiki pages we have, the better
<nixternal> i think the V2 is what we want
<nixternal> once we have something, then I am going to do a /Marketing main page, and then everything falls under it
<nixternal> if someone is interested in Ubuntu Marketing, the only thing they see is an Ubuntu Marketing "Team" page that is hectic
<matthewrevell> The team home pag should be nice and simple
<nixternal> i woud like to see a "Brief" but "Professional" main Marketing page that explains Ubuntu Marketing, not team ideas, and goals
<matthewrevell> yeah, sounds good
<nixternal> i believe you have some mad marketing skills, so i am sure you can rock out with no problems
<matthewrevell> The team is too loose for a statement of purpose
<nixternal> exactly my point
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu <-- at some point this week, this page is going to go to ubuntu.com/community/participate
<johnlittle> It's a vibe more than a mission :)
<matthewrevell> other than, "If you want to help with Ubuntu's marketing, then just do it."
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: ping me when you are done editing the GetInvolved page
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: Yeah, exactly :)
<nixternal> nice Burgundavia!
<johnlittle> Burgundavia: No edits..go for it.
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: I'll amend that HelpingUbuntu page.
<matthewrevell> Unless anyone else was planning to
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: yes please do. Add anything you think that shoudl come over from the existing participate page
<nixternal> man, johnlittle just shows up and boom, he is working his tail off editing wiki pages, providing us with some awesome video
<johnlittle> Should I add Ubuntu Video as a project?
<nixternal> which btw johnlittle, if it wasn't for you, i would have never seen that hour long video of mark probably
<nixternal> that was good stuff at the brazil debconf i believe
<johnlittle> nixternal: cool video isnt it
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: as a non-official one, sure, but it is more a doc project
<matthewrevell> right, I gotta go, sadly
<matthewrevell> Catch ya later
<johnlittle> How do I add it as a non-official project? I'
<nixternal> hey johnlittle, i must say, it would be great to get about 10,000 more of you right now...you just came out of no where and you are rocking it brother!!!  i really like the attitude and your interest in helping Ubuntu!
<nixternal> you rock man!
<johnlittle> I'd like to be able to appeal to ubuntu marketing team members to record videos for it
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: are you looking for marketing videos or documentation videos?
<Burgundavia> you currently have  the latter
<johnlittle> Nixternal: Thanks. It's just nice to be able to contribute. Wish I had more time
<johnlittle> Burgundavia: Both!
<nixternal> i know the feeling!!! welcome none-the-less
<nixternal> feel free to email me at nixternal@ubuntu.com if you ever need anything!
<johnlittle> thanks :)
<nixternal> on that note, i am gonna goto bed ;)
<nixternal> g'nite all!
<johnlittle> oh bed..I should do that soon lol
<johnlittle> nite
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: can you have two different categories in your wordpress thingy?
<johnlittle> Burgundavia: I want to collect more user stories, gaming related videos, stuff that appeals to casual users
<johnlittle> yeah..i have 4-5 now
<Burgundavia> maybe ask for each type on each different page
<johnlittle> Yeah that makes sense
<Burgundavia> night all
<KenSentMe> morning
<KenSentMe> matthewrevell: I have a question about lug radio rss feeds. Can i ask you that here?
<Madpilot> matthewrevell, on that topic, can we harrass you about when the next LugRadio ep is coming out? :)
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!
<ormiret> Madpilot: should be today
<Madpilot> cool
<Madpilot> looking forward to the LRL report :)
<ormiret> This will be the one recorded live at LRL (and the last of the season :( )
<KenSentMe> What program do you use to collect the feeds from lug radio?
<ormiret> bloglines.com
<KenSentMe> I use iPodder, but it downloads the recordings with the extensions .ogg?project instead of .ogg
<Madpilot> I just check the site at random :)
<Madpilot> then download
<KenSentMe> Pretty annoying. My mp3 car radio doesn't accept those extensions
<digitalmouse> ken:  no desire to convert to mp3?
<KenSentMe> digitalmouse: the same with mp3, the extension becomes mp3?podcast instead of just mp3 (my car audio only excepts mp3 btw)
<digitalmouse> write a little bash script to rename automagically :-)
<digitalmouse> add the bash script to a cron process that watches a folder where the files are stored so you can 'fire-n-forget'
<KenSentMe> digitalmouse: that's not the way to solve problems. Maybe i can write such a script but other users may not
<digitalmouse> then write one, add a little gui to it, and make it available to everyone - that is a way to *share* solved problems
<digitalmouse> publicizing helps everyone
<KenSentMe> digitalmouse: again, that's no solution, it's a way to work around a problem. How will people know i've made a solution. I've the problem can be solved on the suppliers side it's much better
<digitalmouse> or, ask the host of the podcast to see if the problem is at their end.  could be a simple link fudging.
<KenSentMe> I've / if
<KenSentMe> digitalmouse: that's why i was pinging matthewrevell
<ormiret> KenSentMe: ask in #lugradio
<KenSentMe> ormiret: good tip
<digitalmouse> ken: I agree, but if others have that problem it is probably posted someplace.  if matthew cannot fix it at his end (though unlikely given his level of knowledge), then a bash-script solution is viable as well, IMHO.  better to have other possibilities available.  and maybe turn it into an article/tutorial on solving problems with ubuntu an something like Gambas (GUI-app developer) or other RAD package that requires little programm
<digitalmouse> way*  (not was)
<digitalmouse> (no coffee yet this morning)
<KenSentMe> I agree, but i haven't asked the people at Lug Radio. I think that's the first step. If they can't / won't solve it, THEN i'll check other ways
<digitalmouse> sounds like a plan
<digitalmouse> :-)
<johnlittle> Despite being touted as the most secure version of the Windows operating series, Microsoft's upcoming Vista has already been hacked at a hackers' conference last week, reports CNET News.com.
<Chons> ^^
<Klaidas> Dear aunt,
<Klaidas> you saw that one? :)
<Klaidas> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1123221217782777472&q=vista+presentation
<lophyte> hahaha
<lophyte> nice.
<johnlittle> I created an Ubuntu Video project page. Not sure if this is what I should have done. I guess it can always be deleted: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/UbuntuVideo
<lophyte> johnlittle: a group of people from Ubuntu Canada are meeting up next Friday to discuss doing videos, actually
<johnlittle> lophyte: fantastic
<lophyte> johnlittle: we have a Linux Caffe in Toronto.. the owner has some experience with film and video, as do a few of us in the team.. so we're gonna meet at the Caffe and toss ideas around
<lophyte> I'll post on the marketing mailing list what we come up with if you'd like
<johnlittle> please do. And if you can make whatever you create available via YouTube and Goolge it facilitates distribution (even though it isn't FOSS)
<lophyte> agreed :)
<johnlittle> er Google
<johnlittle> Sounds like you could do something pretty creative with a group like that
<johnlittle> Have you watched the adventures in Linux clip?
<lophyte> nope
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/2006/08/05/adventures-in-linux-episode-1-ubuntu/
<johnlittle> Pretty creative stuff from those guys
<lophyte> oo, I wasn't aware there was an ubuntu video
<adamant1988> yeah
<adamant1988> my blog is linked to on there :D
<johnlittle> Link back :p
<adamant1988> Maybe i will :P
<lophyte> I'm not quite sure what this Ubuntu Canada team is gonna do, we haven't really tossed out any ideas yet, but that what hte meeting will be for
<lophyte> I imagined it'd be mostly promotional type stuff, but who knows
<adamant1988> I think that widespread marketing teams are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place
<johnlittle> Just work  in the word ubuntu and I'll post it lol
<adamant1988> I've come to that conclusion after seeing all the things I've been able to do locally, but my severely limited options when it comes to the Marketing Team.
<lophyte> well, the reason I joined the marketing team is because I'm enthusiastic about promoting it and sharing it with others locally, but at the same time I believe there needs to be some kind of central management hub for those efforts..
<adamant1988> I think the purpose of the marketing team would be better to act as a center point for the loco teams, to see some collaborative efforts between them.
<lophyte> yup, that's exactly how I see it
<johnlittle> agreed
<lophyte> we collaborate internationally, and then find people in our localities and get together with them to go and actually do the things we've planned
<adamant1988> As it stands right now everything we do is in addition to the loco teams which are (typically) more active and more productive.  We're limited by cost, the Loco teams decide what their needs are individually.
<adamant1988> if the marketing team had a bank account I think we would be a bit more effective.
<lophyte> I'd say there needs to be some sort of organizational heirarchy (for marketing efforts anyway) with the marketing team at the top and the locos under it
<lophyte> it'd be even better if there was one or two representatives from each loco team in the marketing team.. kinda like a loco marketing person
<adamant1988> I disagree, that implies that the marketing team should be 'more powerful' than the locos.  The loco teams are actually out there, they're in the field and they know the territory.  Having a marketing team 'head' that told the Loco's what they should and shouldn't be doing is a bad idea.
<lophyte> well, no.. it'd be a collaborative effort, not necessarily a power thing
<lophyte> by heirarchy, I meant organizationally.. not power
<adamant1988> The Marketing team should be a rep from each loco team so they can collaborate, share ideas, and maybe even provide each other with small funding efforts.
<lophyte> exactly.
<adamant1988> think of it as a 'franchised' marketing team.
<lophyte> sorry, I didn't make myself clear
<lophyte> that's exactly what I was thinking
<adamant1988> The loco teams would be given a certain set of rules that needed to be played by, but for everything else they could do what they needed.
<lophyte> I agree
<adamant1988> and 'the marketing team' would merely be a means for the locos to collaborate and share information and statistics.
<lophyte> yeah :)
<adamant1988> I've actually been inspired to start a small business out of the loco team here in Elkins.
<adamant1988> I've had a lot of luck with the bait & hook advertising method locally, and this is a population that is just scared of computers.
<lophyte> I've been wanting to start Linux consulting business for a while.. I'm planning to in the next few years
<adamant1988> lophyte you want to see if this works for you?
<adamant1988> Do you have a laptop?
<lophyte> not at the moment
<adamant1988> Oh, I've found this works better with a laptop
<lophyte> I'll probably get one at some point when I find some work
<adamant1988> What I usually do is I go to the Wifi-Cafes and Libraries with Wifi access and sit around for a few hours and search and wait for someone there to do something stupid on their computer or start complaining about how slow things are, or other typical windows behavior
<adamant1988> Then what you do is "bait them" by "overhearing" them and coming out with "Oh, that's a shame, I don't have that problem anymore since I started using Ubuntu Linux"
<adamant1988> Of course you have to look them right in the eye and say it
<lophyte> nice.. I never thought of that
<adamant1988> and their next statement will tell you exactly what you need to do
<lophyte> though, that's kinda what I did to my girlfriend
<lophyte> I'll try that
<adamant1988> Sometimes I get "What's that", other times I get "I thought Linux was hard" or "But Linux is just command line stuff like DOS isn't it?"
<lophyte> and you smile and say nope
<adamant1988> Yeah but it works a LOT better if you can show them that their preconceived notions of linux are completely wrong.
<lophyte> yeah, true enough
<adamant1988> Which is why I keep my laptop handy
<lophyte> though, couldn't you boot the live CD on those computers anyway?
<adamant1988> I also show them how simple program installation is.
<adamant1988> Not around here, the PCs aren't powerful enough
<lophyte> ah
<adamant1988> Plus I've been kicked out of BestBuy for that
<lophyte> my girlfriend was complaining about stupid error messages she gets whenever Windows boots up
<adamant1988> I was testing their PCs for linux compatibility with an Ubuntu disk and one of their sales reps flipped retarded on me
<lophyte> so I showed her Ubuntu and let her try it for a while.. so far she's got no complaints
<lophyte> haha
<adamant1988> he came by and was like WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!
<johnlittle> most people just use their OS as life support for a broswer now anyway
<lophyte> exactly
<adamant1988> Most of my work is internet only anymore.
<adamant1988> My needs in a PC are a trifold.  I need Media... i can't stand computing quietly, there is ALWAYS music playing on my computer. I need Programs... I need programs that are pretty up to date and I need to see new additions to my library of programs being added (semi) regularly  so that I don't feel so limited, and I need internet
<adamant1988> But I also like having a computing experience that looks nice, so I refuse to use KDE
<lophyte> what do you use?
<adamant1988> Gnome
<adamant1988> Everything I use is Gnome... the only reason I would use otherwise is if the distro supplied functionality I needed but kind of 'locked me in' with KDE
<adamant1988> in which case KDE would be modified and themed as much as possible to look just like gnome.
<adamant1988> but stock KDE looks like something I would see on a computer designed for a 5 year old...it just looks like it was made by playskool.
<lophyte> I agree
<lophyte> I use Gnome as well
<adamant1988> Whereas gnome looks simple and clean right off the bat unless the distro has been screwing with it.
<johnlittle> KDE makes me want to hurt somebody
<johnlittle> there are some great KDE apps tho
<adamant1988> k3b rocks
<johnlittle> yep
<adamant1988> and KDE is supposedly going to help assist in hardware implementation with KDE 4
<adamant1988> but if they don't make it look different I'm going to cry
<adamant1988> anywho, we're off topic
<lophyte> hehe, yeah
<adamant1988> anywho lophyte the point is don't use LiveCDs at bestbuy, and get a laptop
<adamant1988> I would buy a laptop from System76 but the battery life on them leaves something to be desired.
<johnlittle> i might pick up a laptop in a couple of weeks
<adamant1988> But yes, My "business" as it were is going nicely, although I don't think I'm going to push Ubuntu solely.
<lophyte> My business idea mostly targets moving small-to-medium sized businesses to Linux
<adamant1988> Right now as it stands I have a decent install business going that adds to itself.  I do a free installations for groups of people.  Like full families and friends.
<adamant1988> But I make money still because I'm charging for my time.
<lophyte> that's cool
<adamant1988> But the installations themselves are free.
<adamant1988> That way I'm not charging for the OS
<lophyte> I'd like to help convert businesses to Ubuntu, and make my money off of supporting them
<adamant1988> I could push businesses in multiple directions.
<lophyte> like, small businesses who could really benefit from cutting the costs of proprietary products
<adamant1988> locally businesses spend a lot of money on backup tapes and so forth because they worry about virus and spyware issues.
<lophyte> I'm also considering pulling together Kerberos and LDAP into a single package, and writing a GUI configuration tool for them
<lophyte> for single sign-on services on a business network
<adamant1988> That's where I'm aiming to target, I can show them that they will save money by switching to Ubuntu simply because they don't have to worry about viruses and spyware.
<lophyte> yeah
<adamant1988> so that the total cost of installation would be less than they would spend on the tapes in 2 months.
<adamant1988> and they would start actually seeing the 'savings' in the following months.
<adamant1988> But right now I'm strictly grass roots
<adamant1988> I'm looking to collaborate with more people, get some potential investments, and maybe even talk with some people about making it into a corporation.
<lophyte> that's what I'd like to do at some point
<adamant1988> perhaps we could collaborate then lophyte/
<lophyte> that sounds like a good idea
<adamant1988> I'm looking for partners anyway
<lophyte> I'm definitely interested in that
<lophyte> you mean kinda like two separate companies having a business relationship?
<adamant1988> or we could make one, whichever suits the needs of us both best.
<lophyte> I also thought of it like that too.. kinda like one company, two locations
<adamant1988> think: franchise.
<lophyte> yeah
<adamant1988> we could workout the details via email my email is (my name) @ Gmail.com
<lophyte> mine is demsullivan@gmail.com
<adamant1988> you really shouldn't have done that
<lophyte> why?
<lophyte> oh.. irc logs.. d'oh
<adamant1988> this channel is logged...
<johnlittle> It won't travel far :)
* RichJ registers lophyte on every spam site imaginable ;)
<nixternal> get um RichJ
<johnlittle> lol
<lophyte> haha
<lophyte> alrighty.. I gotta go for a bit
<johnlittle> ttyl
<adamant1988> so nixternal how are the kids?
<nixternal> kids?
<nixternal> i have 1 10 yo daughter ;)
<nixternal> don't give me any more please
<johnlittle> lol
<adamant1988> lol
<adamant1988> I give you props, I could never have a daughter... there would be too many dead sons about 13 years after she was born 0_0
<johnlittle> I will not spawn..at least not soon. I may go larry king style
<adamant1988> lol
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-08-08
<_sara> hello
<_sara> anyone here
<RichJ> hiya _sara !
* RichJ is nixternal btw
* RichJ switches to other client
<nixternal> hiya _sara ;)
<_sara> hey Rich :)
<_sara> I  saw that you picked up the UWN
<nixternal> ya, how i did that i will never know ;)
<_sara> I was wondering if you need any help
<nixternal> as well as being a Fridge dev now
<nixternal> we always need help with the UWN
<nixternal> Corey is currently restructuring the layout
<_sara> what kind of help, maybe we can actually work togheter an make it work with the magazine
<_sara> My Linux went capum!!! for a few days, but I am back on now
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> right now the UWN is pretty much a recap in the world of the developers and other community teams
<nixternal> so, in order to publish the UWN, I have had to spend at least a good 8 hours to get information for it by scouring the mailing lists...the security updates and simple community news is easy
<_sara> so what do yout hink we could do to make it more attractive to others?
<nixternal> but the updates, new to edgy, community meetings/minutes is the real kicker to it
<_sara> ohh
<nixternal> right now, i don't think anyone outside of the community actually reads it, unless they catch it on the fridge and it interests them, or they of course subscribe to the new-list
<_sara> I mean actuall community people that are not developers, just users
<nixternal> i received an email from sabdfl about how I have gone forward with the UWN and he likes the direction of it, and stated he would enjoy to see the professionalism in it, for the community to read
<_sara> cool!!
<nixternal> the "users" will read it if someone points it to them more then likely...i don't think the news-list has a large amount of subscribers, so the fridge is it's only hope
<_sara> that makes sence
<nixternal> and i got on the fridge team via working for buntudot.org
<_sara> ok
<nixternal> all this happened while i was on vacation..so i was in mexico enjoyin' the sun and wifi at times
<_sara> I know I remeber you saying something about that
<nixternal> i went and looked at the house i almost bought, well now it is just a little piece of property since the owner burnt it down for insurance money
<nixternal> im moving to mexico one of these days
<nixternal> i will get there ;)
<_sara> Well I have to get back to work on this magazine issue thing, I think that John has a good ised with the whole blog, video thing so we might take a turn on that direction, but at this point in time we need something
<_sara> I am from latin America, but prefer the USA
<nixternal> w/o a doubt
<nixternal> hehe, im from the USA but prefer latin america ;)
<_sara> maybe if I was  a millinair i would move back
<nixternal> hehe, i have noticed the prices for sure, especially in cabo
<nixternal> jalisco has some nice places for good prices, and i could get an IT job with the tequila manufacturers there easily if needed
<_sara> well that sounds  like a plan
<_sara> well I cam here to see what others though about the video, blog way on making a magazine, should I go that direction
<nixternal> johnlittle has done an amazing job with the video stuff and has a great idea and future plan
<nixternal> now getting people to do the videos is what we need, as well as screencasts
<_sara> I have not seeing that, I remember writting an e-mail about it and getting some feedback but I don't remmber actaulyl seeing that
<_sara> where can I take alook at that
<nixternal> www.ubuntuvideos.com i think
<nixternal> hmmm
<nixternal> Hi there.
<nixternal> johnlittle: ping?
<_sara> ohh, it says hi there
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/UbuntuVideo
<nixternal> there is the wiki page he created
<nixternal> he is make some changes and adding a lot of stuff, i do know that...that "Hi there..." could be his server message for "work being done"
<nixternal> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/
<nixternal> that is the link there
<_sara> ok thnaks, so I guess that I no longer have a job
<bimberi> cuspweb
<nixternal> heh, i wouldn't say that, you have the "Magazine"!!!!
<bimberi> gah, wrong window :)
<_sara> wait, I am confused because this is what we started working on so perhaps there is some duplication of work, or maybe overlapping
<nixternal> OMG, that dual monitor XGL thing was awesome!
<_sara> I swa that too i wish I had dual monitors
<nixternal> oh, i didn't know that, concerning the video stuff
<nixternal> i have dual, actually quad monitors, but i don't have XGL
<nixternal> i don't think my computers are strong enough for XGL either
<_sara> maybe I need to get in touch with John Little so we don't duplicate stuff, our stuff is different
<_sara> ok have to go back to work
<nixternal> arlighty, talk to you later sara!
<nixternal> take care
<johnlittle> looking for me?
<nixternal> a little late ;)
<johnlittle> yeah im readin
<johnlittle> Not sure how the videos conflict with the magazine
<johnlittle> I don't think theres much overlap..although a video magazine would be cool..like rocketboom
<johnlittle> No video production for me though.
<johnlittle> was that sara vasquez?
<rjian> Hell,o People
<johnlittle> hi
<rjian> oh hello johnlittle
<SteveMyers> Hey everyone, is there someone here I can speak with about joining the marketing team?
<johnlittle> Youre in luck..they just opened it up. You can sign up at Launchpad
<johnlittle> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-marketing
<MenZa> DAMNIT JENDA
<MenZa> get back here.
<MenZa> When's he gonna be back?
<johnlittle> no idea
<SteveMyers> ty johnlittle :)
<johnlittle> sign up?
<SteveMyers> here's the deal, with launch pad you have to wait and you don't get a chance into getting reviewed, but I was thinking more of the lines of UbuntuForums as my chances are higher
<SteveMyers> but if you know someone who can review me from launchpad, then I will signup, I just need to find my login for launchpad
<johnlittle> The instructions say sign up at launchpad...not sure if theres another way
<johnlittle> it's an open team anyway
<bimberi> SteveMyers: you don't have to be reviewed.  It's an open team so you can simply join once you've logged into LP
<SteveMyers> Thanks bimberi :)
<SteveMyers> Glad to be back online with launchpad, been a few years since I've logged in
<SteveMyers> Good deal, thank you again johnlittle, and bimberi :)
<SteveMyers> Glad to finally be on the team after 2 years of trying :-/
<johnlittle> 2 years?
<SteveMyers> yep
<SteveMyers> Been with Ubuntu for 2 years
<SteveMyers> been on the teams of UbuntuForums, created projects, etc etc
<johnlittle> Theres quite a bit going on but I'm new here. just joined over the weekend
<johnlittle> I'm just kind of doing stuff until I get in trouble.
<SteveMyers> ?
<johnlittle> was a joke
<bimberi> johnlittle: what you're doing is great!
* bimberi dugg it
<johnlittle> Bimberi: Thanks!
<SteveMyers> hehe
<SteveMyers> So what exactly does the marketing group of Ubuntu do...and are they linked in any way of the forums? it's been awhile since I've been back, so I am not sure what has changed over the past 2 years
<bimberi> SteveMyers: you really need to take care with those timeframes.  Ubuntu's first release was less than 2 years ago :)
<bimberi> SteveMyers: it's not linked with the forums afaik
<SteveMyers> October 2005 I joined, yes my apologies
<SteveMyers> 2004*
<bimberi> SteveMyers: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/
<bimberi> SteveMyers: wow, that's right at the beginning :)
<johnlittle> everything I know I learned from this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
<johnlittle> and nixternal :)
<SteveMyers> I know :( I had to look at the schedule again to see my check when I joined...thought it was earlier than that
<bimberi> johnlittle: i'm worried now ;)
<johnlittle> lol
<SteveMyers> Thanks for the link
<SteveMyers> one sec
<SteveMyers> still doing work on this page johnlittle?
<SteveMyers> looks good :)
<johnlittle> which one?
<SteveMyers> the Ubuntu Marketing Team wiki page
<johnlittle> Oh i just added the Ubuntu Video project to that page.
<SteveMyers> oh ok
<SteveMyers> one sec, need to find my login for the wiki.
<SteveMyers> good deal, so what do you do on the marketing group john/
<SteveMyers> ?
<SteveMyers> Record Ubuntu Videos
<SteveMyers> sorry just noticed
<johnlittle> Mainly the Ubuntu Video project
<SteveMyers> you like it?
<johnlittle> Yeah
<SteveMyers> Very nice Bio :D
<SteveMyers> deffinently worth reading
<johnlittle> thx..need to work on it but I hate doing those things
<SteveMyers> hehe, I hear yah on that
<johnlittle> I kind of did it all backwords. I made Ubuntu Video, then joined the team, and then developed the project page lol
<SteveMyers> I like it
<SteveMyers> nice to see you motivated before joining, deffinently a plus my friend :)
<bimberi> johnlittle: that's the usual path really :)
<johnlittle> Yeah :)
<johnlittle> Is there something specific you wanted to work on Steve?
<SteveMyers> sorry, got busy
<rjian> hello steve
<SteveMyers> hey rjian :)
<rjian> wer u from?
<SteveMyers> North Carolina, you?
<rjian> im from Philippines
<SteveMyers> Nice :) how's the weather ?
<rjian> sometimes not good
<rjian> hehe
<SteveMyers> hehe, man, same here
<SteveMyers> Weather is jumping up and down like a kid on a sugar high
<SteveMyers> hehe
<rjian> :)
<RichJ> clear
<RichJ> omg, i just did that in 2 different channels
<Burgundavia> whiprush: one idea of spec communication might be to have a list published, in a form that is readable, at the beginning of the spec cycle
<whiprush> Burgundavia: there's a big list published at the beginning of every cycle
<whiprush> it's in every release note, and every annnouncement.
<whiprush> the problem is that no one reads them
<Burgundavia> right, but a quick summary, one sentence for each and why you care
<Burgundavia> and also what is *NOT* being considered
<nixternal> heh, i just got done reading it as a matter of fact for Edgy since I am trying to help jjesse with Kubuntu Edgy release notes ;)
<adamant1988> hey all
<Burgundavia> hey adamant1988
<adamant1988> how's everyone?
<adamant1988> Man the fedora community makes me appreciate Ubuntu's so much more.
<adamant1988> I went in to ask them about an article I read in the fedora weekly news and I was called a troll and other things =\
<Burgundavia> hmm, debian has a bit of that too
<Burgundavia> sometimes Ubuntu can exhibit that side of humanity, but the lid is usually keeps a lid on it
<adamant1988> yeah, pretty upsetting stuff... I was thinking about installing FC.. but I'm not sure I want to deal with them.
<Madpilot> adamant1988, you could install Gentoo, and go brave #gentoo :)
<adamant1988> hehe Madpilot I have no interest... My interest in fedora core is strictly nostalgic anyway... I used red hat 7.1 as my first distro, so I feel some odd sense of attachment to red hat products.
<Burgundavia> many people first used Linux as an RH product
<mdke> Madpilot: hey, #gentoo is nice!
<mdke> isn't it?
<Madpilot> not always
<Madpilot> got into chatting with someone in -offtopic a while ago, they had some... interesting... tales
<mdke> I found it good, I must say
<Madpilot> maybe the rep is exaggerated; I've never had any reason to visit #gentoo myself, I'll admint
<Madpilot> admit, even
<mdke> forums are good too
<Madpilot> I know the gentoo wiki is massive, and seems well put together
<Burgundavia> yes, it is
<adamant1988> I know the rep for debian isn't exaggerated
<Burgundavia> they have had much longer at it than we have
<adamant1988> to prove it I went into #debian and said that I used linspire in passing.
<mdke> yes, debian is much less friendly
<adamant1988> I was informed that I was lucky that bullets did not travel well through the net.
<mdke> I suppose it's a matter of personal experience
<mdke> I went to #debian with a question about a genuine debian system that I ran, but they refused to answer and flamed me because they saw that I was joined in various #ubuntu-* channels
<adamant1988> I was almost kicked from #elive because I am an Ubuntu user =\
<ompaul> my first linux was .... turbolinux
<ompaul> I had been using freebsd before it, and I reverted to freebsd after that
<YoussefAssad> wow, big marketing community
<johnlittleWORK> afternoon
<Burgwork> whiprush, ping
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-08-09
<johnlittle>  -marketing is a very quiet place...
<johnlittle> Yo
<adamant1988> it's because the room is logged.
<johnlittle> I know..it's still quiet
<adamant1988> because the room is logged and people keep up on these logs.  don't want to flood the log with irrelevant banter.
<johnlittle> Yeah..got it. Just commenting on the lack of activity..not banter
<adamant1988> :)
<johnlittle> I've got over a weeks worth of videos stacked up and ready to go on Ubuntu Video - Including a couple more of Mark Shuttleworth and an episode of the Shuttleworth Foundation's Go Open
<adamant1988> coolness.
<adamant1988> I won't be participating in Ubuntu Video... I don't have the equipment...
<johnlittle> me either lol
<johnlittle> Heres one i bet you havent seen http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2530762832911796637&q=shuttleworth
<johnlittle> I wont be posting that lol
<lophyte> hey guys
<johnlittle> Hiya
<lophyte> how's it going?
<johnlittle> Good..just posting videos. You?
<iCod> hey
<iCod> brb
<lophyte> johnlittle: not bad.. working on building python for my Palm
<johnlittle> Cool
<adamant1988> Yay videos
<lophyte> I'm trying to write an RSS aggregator for it.. so I can download RSS feeds in the morning, transfer them to my Palm and read them on the way to school
<adamant1988> I noticed my blog is linked to on the Ubuntu Video site
<iCod> I'm back, I'm came in here quick to check if you guys knew about www.ubuntuvideo.com
<adamant1988> That makes me happy on the inside.
<iCod> adamant, I was typing as you said that
<adamant1988> :)
<iCod> yeah
<iCod> brb, again
<johnlittle> Um yeah..I've heard of it lol
<johnlittle> I just sent Roblimo an email..asked if I could use some of the stuff he's done.
<iCod> I'm back
<johnlittle> wb
<iCod> thanks
<adamant1988> yep
<iCod> hmmmm
<iCod> so yeah
<johnlittle> Just got an email from Roblimo where he said he'd be willing to pay people for producing high quality linux related videos
<johnlittle> No details yet but that's an interesting thought
<iCod> very interesting
<iCod> screencasting is very easy, but I doubt thats what he's talking about
<johnlittle> Nope he's talking better than YouTube quality video
<iCod> hmmm...
<johnlittle> But still something that most people could do pretty simply
<iCod> interesting
<whiprush> Burgundavia: pong
<rjian> Hello people of FOSS
<Madpilot> we're just the people of the Ubuntu part of FOSS :)
<rjian> Weeeee
<adamant1988> That gives me an idea for a blog lol
<Burgundavia> whiprush: ping (again, sorry out)
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: Hey - did you see the Frdige story?
<Madpilot> matthewrevell, is Jono's new position w/ Canonical paid or volunteer?
<matthewrevell> It's a paid position.
<klepas> matthewrevell: you getting the one-on-one>
<matthewrevell> klepas: Not sure what you mean
<klepas> or are you just too afraid to answer given the topic? :P
<klepas> ./q matthewrevell
<matthewrevell> klepas: Sorry mate, I'm a bit lost.
<matthewrevell> klepas: What are you asking?
<klepas> what client are you useing?
<mdke> one-on-one sounds a bit kinky
<matthewrevell> Oh
<matthewrevell> irssi
<klepas> mdke: lollers
<klepas> matthewrevell: type /q klepas
<matthewrevell> oh right
<matthewrevell> klepas: HAve you identified yourself to Freenode?
<matthewrevell>  /msg nickserv identify your-password
<klepas> ah..
<klepas> so it's me
<matthewrevell> :)
* klepas feels stupid
* matthewrevell kicks stupid klepas
<matthewrevell> :)
<ompaul> matthewrevell I had a quesiton for you about the previous show and I can't remember it  (I only listened to it last week)
* ompaul goes off wondering if it is worth listening to again to work out what one should do next
<matthewrevell> :)
<matthewrevell> Probably not worth listening to again :)
<ompaul> as in try to remember the question or not as the case may be
<ompaul> ohh yeah, I remember can we fall to pm?
<ompaul> cos it is offtopic for Ubuntu
<ompaul> :-)
<ompaul> to offtopic and beyond!
<matthewrevell> :)
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Marketing
<nixternal> that is where everything should start
<nixternal> i just emailed teh list with a long, boring, drawn out rambling about Ubuntu Marketing
<nixternal> im not affraid to say it, but the current state of "Marketing" is not good and needs massive direction. I cannot wait for Jono to start next month ;)
<nixternal> we keep talking about spread ubuntu, magazine and what not, but we never talk about marketing...ubuntu doesn't even have a marketing project, yet there is a team who keeps talking about spread ubuntu, magazines, bzr, svn
<nixternal> come on people...lets take this puppy by the reins and do real marketing stuff!
* mdke notes that long drawn out ramblings are quite well represented on the mailing list
<nixternal> now, was that a "Lou Holtz" motivations speach or what ;)
<mdke> spread ubuntu sounds like a reasonable project for a marketing team though
<nixternal> i even tried to do it in a grumpy old voice with an irish accent, did ya notice it ;)
<mdke> I haven't read it yet, I've just been reading another long drawn out rambling email
<nixternal> it sounds like a reasonable "campaign/project" under a main Ubuntu Marketing Project
<matthewrevell> I'm in two minds, here.
<matthewrevell> I've done an academic course in marketing
<matthewrevell> I've done some marketing in my day job
<matthewrevell> I've been a member of the free software community for a few years now
<nixternal> my cousin for instance, she works for the Chicago Cubs as a Marketing VP...i had her take a look at our stuff..and she said ok, where is Ubuntu Marketing?  i see ripples in the puddle, but no ocean...something to that effect
<mdke> nixternal: let him talk
<nixternal> oh..sorry
<matthewrevell> Bringing those together seems like an insurmountable task, at the moment.
<matthewrevell> Just quickly...
<matthewrevell> Sorry to hog the channel...
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> no, continue please ;)
<matthewrevell> The way the Marketing Team is working atm makes it almost impossible to do any serious planning *as a team*.
<matthewrevell> Canonical don't have loads of time to give us.
<matthewrevell> So we have to make it up.
<matthewrevell> Which is almost counterproductive.
<matthewrevell> The team isn't cohesive
<matthewrevell> so we can't plan together
<nixternal> very true
<matthewrevell> So, as much as I love the idea of planning etc
<matthewrevell> I think the only thing we can do at the moment is work on individual projects and let a team form out of that.
<matthewrevell> ends
<matthewrevell> :)
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> when I joined the marketing team list
<nixternal> but working on individual projects hasn't done anything...i have yet to see anything from an individual project, except for johnlittle's videos
<nixternal> spread ubuntu is still a drawing for all that we know
<nixternal> the magazine has about enough content for...heck not even a ToC
<mdke> I seem to remember questioning whether the team needed a specific leader, and suggesting that it could start off without a leader. I see little prospect of that working, there is too much lame rambling on the list
<mdke> a leader is needed, I'd say
<matthewrevell> nixternal: That'd down to limited personal experience.
<matthewrevell> mdke: Really?
<mdke> don't you think?
<matthewrevell> mdke: that'll just lead to a big cattle
<matthewrevell> ha!
<matthewrevell> battle
<mindspin> yup
<mdke> the last month on the list can be summed up like this:
<nixternal> i actually have to agree with mdke on a "leader" kind of...and a Canonical one if possible
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Ah, now if it were a Canonical person, that's different
<mdke> 1. person A gives a long ramblling email about "what is marketing
<mdke> 2. person B does it too
<mdke> 3. person C does it too
<mdke> and so on
<matthewrevell> I'd add to that mdke
<matthewrevell> 4. ye or me deflate them
<matthewrevell> :)
<nixternal> heh
<mdke> I see no need for the leader to be a Canonical person, myself
<nixternal> truthfully, John Baer knows about marketing, however I don't think he grasps FLOSS or Ubuntu
<matthewrevell> mdke: Who could it be then?
<mdke> dude
<matthewrevell> nixternal: I don't see much evidence of John's marketing knowledge
<mdke> you're the only candidate, for me
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Seems like alovely guy etc
<matthewrevell> mdke: Well, thanks but I have little experience in that sort of thing.
<nixternal> well, he knows marketing in a "Corporate" setting, since that is what he does
<matthewrevell> mdke: Also, I think jenda would have a thing or two to say
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Okay, fair enough. I'm just going by what I've read.
<mindspin> nixternal: does the corporate marketing approach fullfill our needs?
<nixternal> i would +1 matthewrevell as well, especially with jono coming aboard, and him and matthewrevell already share a bond
<mdke> right, jenda is nice and enthusiastic but doesn't really have the right attributes
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Less of those rumours plase
<elkbuntu> matthewrevell, w00t for fridge article on the counter, traffic's come out of the slump it was heading too
<matthewrevell> s/plase/please
<nixternal> mindspin: no, especially when he doesn't understand FLOSS or Ubuntu
<nixternal> rumors?
<mdke> nixternal: "share a bond"
<mdke> haha
<nixternal> haha
<matthewrevell> nixternal: That Jono and I share a bond.Sorry, geting childish
<nixternal> mdke get your mind out of the gutter
<nixternal> you too matthewrevell ;)
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: Cool! :)
<matthewrevell> Anyway, back to business.
<mdke> yes.
<matthewrevell> Let's say we had a leader
<matthewrevell> That person wouldn't be able to stop all the endless handwringing would they?
<elkbuntu> is this a meeting?
<nixternal> more then likely not
<mdke> I think they would be able to give some direction
<nixternal> no elkbuntu, this is opensource at its best in brainstorming ;)
<elkbuntu> ah
<mindspin> having a leader will not get us a marketing concept, beside that we really should define our point of start..
<mdke> maybe it won't take a leader, but a few people getting together and saying "stop the crap"
<matthewrevell> mdke: I mentioned to Chris K the other day that we need a marketing summit, for want of a better phrase
<matthewrevell> People need some real world meeting time to say hi, etc
<nixternal> mindspin: +1, and it should start out with Marketing, and not spread ubuntu or ubuntu magazine, which for some reason people tend to believe is marketing
<mindspin> nixternal: agreed
<matthewrevell> Then we can come back from that and say to the list, "Okay, this is where we're going"
<mdke> yes, I agree. A sprint
<nixternal> that would rock
<matthewrevell> Now, the logistics of that I nigh on impossible tho
<matthewrevell> I can get to London no probs. Not sure about other people :)
<nixternal> it could be a BOF at the next summit as well, no?
<mindspin> london could be cool beside room is expensive there...
<mdke> mindspin: london is the venue for most ubuntu sprints
<matthewrevell> Just to satisfy my curiosity, where is everyone?
* matthewrevell two hours from London
* nixternal is in Chicago
<mindspin> farnkfurt /germany
* mdke 0 hours
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> im a day away
<matthewrevell> mindspin: two hours from London, then :)
<nixternal> been a few years since my last visit as well
<mindspin> plus the ride... ;-)
<matthewrevell> brb
<nixternal> im going to try and make it to either south africa soon to visit in-laws, or greece
<nixternal> have to put london on the list, since that is where my x wants to move back to
<matthewrevell> Right, so maybe a meet-up isn't totally unrealistic.
<nixternal> even if everyone can't make it, i think "key personnel" would be well enough
<matthewrevell> I'd say we need leadership, rather than a leader.
<mdke> yes, that's fair
<matthewrevell> Okay, a leader may be usefl.
<nixternal> ya
<mdke> there are some very good aussies on the list, in terms of a meet, that would be problematic
<nixternal> leadership == direction
<matthewrevell> mdke: True.
<matthewrevell> Video link :)
<mindspin> what about starting with a council/membership thing like in other teams/branches
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Yeah
<nixternal> but how is a council determined for the marketing team?
<matthewrevell> nixternal: I suppose it would be a case of a hostile takeover
<matthewrevell> :-D
<nixternal> hehe
<mindspin> the team elects a "council" which is the "leadergroup"
<nixternal> i was thinking the same thing
<matthewrevell> mindspin: What team tho?
<mdke> I am not sure about this "council" concept, i have only seen one other team use it (artwork) and that hasn't got off the ground
<mdke> I do not think it will help much
<nixternal> mdke has a great point with that one
<mindspin> It could be a step after a RL meeting
<mdke> except for greating bureaucracy
<matthewrevell> I'd prefer a bunch of us to decide on a broad direction, then some specific projects, and to come back to the list and say, "This is where we're going, join us if you like".
<matthewrevell> The team, to be fair, is crying out for that.
<nixternal> a council still wouldn't provide us guidance or direction, but we would have leadership in a way
<matthewrevell> A "to do list" has been requested several times.
<mdke> yes
<nixternal> ya, there are a few of them from what i have seen as well
<nixternal> they all have spread ubuntu, ubuntu magazine, and some charter
<nixternal> spread ubuntu is great, and unoriginal at the same time..but the grassroots potential is decent
<matthewrevell> nixternal: We need to be careful with SU
<nixternal> the magazine i feel is a waste of time right now
<nixternal> Spread has been done many times
<matthewrevell> IMO SU should not be done jsut because it's worked for Firefox
<nixternal> omg +11111
<matthewrevell> However, some kind of grass roots advocacy support site would be good
<nixternal> so true
<nixternal> marketing.ubuntu.com
<matthewrevell> Magazine - agreed, not got any real purpose
<nixternal> and from there extend
<matthewrevell> nixternal: advocate.ubuntu.com?
<nixternal> UWN and Fridge rules that
<mdke> the key is to ensure that there aren't overlaps with the website
<nixternal> that as well matthewrevell, actually i like that
<matthewrevell> mdke: Absolutely
<nixternal> if you notice LoCo is all about "Advocating"
<nixternal> there needs to be "Ubuntu Marketing" before you can start creating campaigns or projects and saying that is marketing
<nixternal> right now, there is nothing on Ubuntu.com that explains the "Marketing Goals" of Ubuntu
<nixternal> before a team can work, or move forward, there needs to be a "Marketing Plan"
<mindspin> beside is for humans
<matthewrevell> nixternal: The first interview we did, with a big name, on LugRadio was with sabdfl
<nixternal> yup
<matthewrevell> He basically said that Ubuntu had no traditional marketing
<matthewrevell> Now, admittedly, we basically became the Ubuntu propaganda dept after thaqt
<matthewrevell> but my point is
<mdke> hehe
<matthewrevell> that Canonical's marketing has largely been ShipIT and that's it.
<nixternal> i like the "propaganda dept"
<matthewrevell> Things are changing a bit now, it would see,/
<matthewrevell> God I shit at typing
<mindspin> matthewrevell: its called public Relations guys
<nixternal> lol
<matthewrevell> :)
<matthewrevell> Now the Communications Manager role is up for grabs, I think we'll see more traditional marketing from Canonical
<mindspin> and indeed PR is the most important thing in my eyes
<nixternal> ok, so sabdfl states no traditional marketing, but do they want marketing, or just advocacy?
<matthewrevell> mindspin: PR has its place, of course.
<mindspin> we do not sell a product, we sell an idea
<matthewrevell> nixternal: They want marketing
<matthewrevell> mindspin: not true
<matthewrevell> mindspin: we sell Ubuntu.
<nixternal> excellent, other wise i was going to create #ubuntu-advocacy ;)
<matthewrevell> Just because the cost is not financial, doesn't mean it's not sold
<matthewrevell> but marketing != selling
<matthewrevell> as we all know :)
<matthewrevell> Anyway, back to trying to get some kind of coherence to this team.
<nixternal> so matthewrevell, with you and jono bonding the way you do ;)   he will be working pretty close with this team then?  I know he will be working close with LoCo's
<matthewrevell> I don't see how we can decide on a direction, without Canonical's involvement
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Yeah, I've spoken to Jono about the marketing team quite a bit
<nixternal> cool
<matthewrevell> nixternal: He bows to my marketing-fu :)
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> he'll be working on improving the team as a team, rather than doing the actual marketing
<matthewrevell> Seriously, though, he's well up for working with the team
<matthewrevell> I've described our, erm, difficulties
<nixternal> well, i did watch LRL and the only mention of Ubuntu was with Keybuck
<matthewrevell> Keybuck?
<nixternal> remnant
<mdke> (scott)
<matthewrevell> Oh, yeah
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> lol
<matthewrevell> Sorry, I think of him as "microphone monkey"
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> exactly
<matthewrevell> Yeah, but that was only 70 mins of a very full weekend :)
<nixternal> i know, had to poke fun though ;)
<matthewrevell> :)
<nixternal> and didn't dotwaffle do some cutting?
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> i have been working closely with Ubuntu Chicago, LoCo...we have been doing a lot of "Advocacy", to the point we have provided more then 1000 cds, have about 50 active support calls/deals, and converted a recent Linux Install Fest from the typical 10 to 15 fedora installers, to almost 100 people, 80+ installing Ubuntu
<matthewrevell> cool
<nixternal> that is my baby there, as i took it from the ground up and got it kickin' butt..i got lucky with the group of guys i got though
<nixternal> we actually have a few women making their way into it as well
<nixternal> i played the leadership roll just until it got lifted off the ground...then we went to open forum really...everyone is a member, team contact, and can rock and roll on any project they would like
<nixternal> we have Ubuntu Posters in certain places in chicago..we have CompUSA hosting CDs at their register right now in 2 locations
<matthewrevell> Superb
<matthewrevell> So, you've built up what could be called "best practice".
<nixternal> and hopefully, soon, i am in the process of bartering about 100+ hours for 5 billboard spots for 1 month..if i had $150k to throw away, i could get 5 billboard at each of the 4 major entrances into chicago
<nixternal> pretty much ya
<mdke> that sounds very cool
<nixternal> 5 billboards, 1 ubuntu philosophy general, with the other 4 being ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, and xubuntu
<mdke> nixternal: have you documented some of this? other loco teams might be interested (except the bit that requires cash)
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> I'm serious
<nixternal> we are working on documentation and pictures now
<matthewrevell> You see, this is where I think the marketing team can come into its own
<nixternal> this has all happened within weeks..we got flooded actually with responses
<mdke> when you have written down what you've done, please post it to -marketing and loco-contacts
<nixternal> most definitely
<matthewrevell> One of our main roles, I reckon, should be to find what people are doing and act as a central resource to distribute things that work.
<matthewrevell> Ideas, contacts, all that jazz.
<nixternal> one of our guys owns a business in a rich area of chicago, and has pictures of famous people holding ubuntu cd's
<nixternal> i don't know who they are yet, but he said i would love it
<matthewrevell> Cool :)
<nixternal> im guessing sports people from like the cubs, whitesox, and hopefully jordan!
<mdke> mmm jordan
<mdke> oh, this must be a different one
<nixternal> i tried to get brad pitt to hold an ubuntu cd a couple of weeks ago when he was here in chicago...i pretty much got told off
<nixternal> michael jordan ;)
<mdke> damn
<nixternal> we are planning a day at the cubs game as a group of 10, since my cousin works marketing, she said we could be pimped as a group for Ubuntu, and allow us to display a banner to be seen on TV
<nixternal> it might actually be more then 10 though, becase everyone wants to go, evern the ones who said they hate the cubs
<nixternal> anyways, enough about LoCo, this is marketing!
<matthewrevell> nixternal: I think you raise an important point, though: the marketing team should be working closely with LoCo teams.
<nixternal> and that has been said since i started hanging out here in marketing
<nixternal> but never done..i know im a LoCo person, bimberi is, and im sure a few others are, Burgwork is
<nixternal> the au team i heard is awesome
<nixternal> as well as the brazil team i believe
<mdke> loads of teams are great, they need to communicate better with eachother tho
<Madpilot> Burgwork mostly gets in arguments with the local LoCo longtimers :)
<matthewrevell> So, area for the team is: Find and advise of effective advocacy, working with LoCo teams.
<matthewrevell> Sorry, "one area for the team"
<matthewrevell> and "on effective"
<matthewrevell> Less haste, more spreed...
<nixternal> hehe
<matthewrevell> arse, can't even type that
<nixternal> hahah
<Madpilot> spreed? whazzat?
<Madpilot> ;)
<matthewrevell> :)
* Kamping_Kaiser felt pained today - Centos $someversion (linux2.4, gnome 2.2.2) being held up as an example of 'linux today', along with a 'linux has no guis' comment - thats what i need to change :|
<matthewrevell> oof
<nixternal> 4:15am...i love it
<nixternal> nothing like brainstorming when only 1 eye works
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehehe
* Madpilot could have sworn he was typing this from a Linux GUI... guess I'm hallucinating...
<matthewrevell> nixternal: This server works on your local time? Nice
<nixternal> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, friad so - gotta trust your lecturors, they know all....
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<matthewrevell> Okay
<matthewrevell> I gotta push off shortly
<matthewrevell> But this has been useful
<matthewrevell> I think we have a group of people now who "get it" in terms of FOSS, Ubuntu and marketing
<matthewrevell> We need to rein in the ML a bit
<mdke> I'd like to see fewer emails to the list, maybe I will reply to John and be frank
<matthewrevell> and start showing some more leadership
<matthewrevell> mdke: Yeah, I'll gladly back you up
<matthewrevell> mdke: Although, I thought I'd been frank in the past and it didn't seem to do much
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> we'll see
<nixternal> i will hide behind you ;)
<matthewrevell> Shall we try to agree on three or four areas where we see the team having a hand
<matthewrevell> ?
<nixternal> you have my support mdke, as well as you matthewrevell
<nixternal> you both are very trustworthy and know what is up!
<nixternal> i think the team would be great for centralizing documentation, artwork, and what have you for Ubuntu Advocacy
<nixternal> i know there is a DIYMarketing page, however there needs to be some "New" or "Fresh" stuff done
<nixternal> and when i say documentation, i mean like pamphlets, flyers, presentations, and such
<matthewrevell> I think we should nuke the legacy wiki pages, back from the old ubuntupeople.com days
<nixternal> alrighty, im off to bed..i will be back on here after the gym and what not
<nixternal> g'nite, and good chattin' everyone!
<Madpilot> night
<matthewrevell> night
<mindspin> night
<matthewrevell> okay, I need to go too. What action do we take now?
<matthewrevell> Persuade Canonical to fund/organise a summit?
<matthewrevell> Stamp harder on rambling on the ML
<mindspin> sounds reasonable
* mdke puts on some big boots
<matthewrevell> Propose a general vision for the team and three or four practical areas people can work on
<matthewrevell> :)
<mindspin> and come to a basic consensus about the targets
<matthewrevell> mindspin: yes, which is the difficult bit IMO
<mindspin> not that difficult if we can make it to have a sense for the plurality of targets
<matthewrevell> Yeah, it's important not to be overly prescriptive.
<matthewrevell> So, shall I put together a brief and grounded "vision" email for the ML? It'll prolong the pain a little, but if you guys can debate it and we can agree on the ML, then we should see an end to the "this is how it's going to be" stuff
<mdke> yes, please
<matthewrevell> Okay, I'll do that at some point today, if at all possible.
<matthewrevell> Good talking to you all, look forward to sorting all this out :)
<mdke> me too, later
<mindspin> yup me too
<mdke> ok, I've started the stamping process
<bimberi> good stuff
<bimberi> although it was borderline rambling ;p
<mdke> argh, mine was?
<bimberi> no, just kidding
<mdke> phew
<mdke> bimberi: awesome
<bimberi> mdke: thanks :)
<mdke> I need to get a quotes database to put that in
* johnlittle apologizes for his long rambling email to the ML
<matthewrevell> mdke: nice post. Bit of a busy day for me, but will try to make mine later.
<mdke> matthewrevell: np, fine
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:matthewrevell] : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam | Channel logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
* ompaul nudges matthewrevell got a second?
<nixternal> don't nudge, just punch him
<ompaul> nixternal, you obviously don't know my nudges :)
<nixternal> hehe
<ompaul> nixternal, are you involved with OOo?
<matthewrevell> ooof
<ompaul> or have I got you mixed up
<matthewrevell> ompaul: got your nudge
<matthewrevell> hello :)
<nixternal> no ompaul, but I know Joey Stanford is
<matthewrevell> Unable to talk at the mo :(
<nixternal> he goes by Rinchen when he is online
<ompaul> matthewrevell, I was going to say ping me when you get home - I have a meeting here at about 6-7pm for some time
<ompaul> it is dependant on the man in question getting out of his office and through the traffic to here (no mean feat)
<ompaul> nixternal, ahh
<matthewrevell> ompaul: cool
<matthewrevell> will do if able
<matthewrevell> busy evening ahead :(
<ompaul> nixternal,  I cracked the pseudo code for a nasty bug they have
<ompaul> nixternal, I'll document it and pass it back
<ompaul> matthewrevell, we can go for tomorrow if you want
<matthewrevell> ompaul: I'll catch you when I can. Wife will ill me if I don't get the lounge painted
<ompaul> sudo apt-get install painter :)
<nixternal> OOo has had some really nasty bugs recently i have heard with 2.0.3
<ompaul> nixternal, this is one of those longer lasting things - it involves centering it - between the top and bottom of the page
<nixternal> ahhh
<ompaul> and to do it as a setting :) - however implementing it is not what I have - just an approach
<nixternal> i have been using inkscape and scribus a lot lately, and have neglected OOo
* ompaul has been neglecting stuff >>    .       <<
* ompaul puts a sprint on to get to the end of the week intact
<nixternal> hehe..i try not to, but have a pretty full plate at the moment..and im always getting off track on something new and exciting
<MagicFab> Ubuntu and Suse suggested at http://www.getgnulinux.org
<Burgwork> whiprush, ping (really here this time)
<whiprush> yo
<whiprush> Burgwork: pong
<Burgwork> whiprush, jrb is not answering his phone
<Burgwork> can I give you a quick call and we can chat for a bit about what we need?
<whiprush> he's not sending a box.
<Burgwork> I want his posters, not a box
<whiprush> yeah, give me 10, I've got a lunch party in my office at the moment.
<whiprush> oh oh, good call
<Burgwork> I can supply small posters, but he has a large banner, right?
<whiprush> yeah
<whiprush> and someone sent him the two nice ones
<whiprush> the one that's the smiley with the "desktop for happy people"
<whiprush> and the multilingual one
<Burgwork> perfectc
<Burgwork> what about a large banner with just GNOME on it?
<whiprush> no idea
<whiprush> http://www.bagu.org/officialdekthappy.svg
<whiprush> http://www.bagu.org/poster-language.svg
<whiprush> those are so awesome
<MenZa> The last one is
<MenZa> Well
<MenZa> They both are.
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> I was going to get those printed if needed as well
<johnlittle> very slick posters
<Burgwork> too bad the other stuff on that gnome brochure sucks
<Burgwork> nixternal, would you be able to take over the UWN next week (this week I am good, next week I am enjoying the sea air in SF at Linuxworld)
<nixternal> got it
<Burgwork> nixternal, thanks. Wanted to line that up in advance
<nixternal> no problems there, as I think I will have a little help from Riddell and others as well
<nixternal> and now I am tracking all changes via mailing lists
<Burgwork> I think I am goingt o try and farm off various pieces to piece, regular beats, like
<johnlittle> Just an idea but if tasks like that were posted as open "positions" it might be easier to funnel new arrivals to the group into specific roles that result in product
<Burgwork> yes, that is good thinking
<Burgwork> I will put some thought into that tonight
<nixternal> johnlittle: are you talking about the UWN?
<johnlittle> nixternal: just marketing team projects in general
<nixternal> ahh, ya
<nixternal> i was gonna say, UWN is a whole other can of worms
<nixternal> you need to be in the developer's pockets so-to-speak for that one
<johnlittle> I try to stay out of developers pockets
<nixternal> heh
<johnlittle> If I have an idea for a new marketing team project whats the best way to float it out there given the current environment?
<nixternal> i would probably hold off right now, as there seems to be a "restructuring" coming along. I would normally say present it to the list, however, that is my opinion ;)
<nixternal> wait a day or two, and see what comes about the current emails that were just sent out
<johnlittle> Thats what I was thinking
<nixternal> ya, once that sorts itself out, and maybe some guidance is approved or accepted, then i would smack them with it ;)
<johnlittle> I'd just go do it myself but there's just no more time
<Burgwork> johnlittle, new ideas are always good, but I would recommend smaller ones and ones you, yourself, are willing todo
<Burgwork> whiprush, you around now?
<whiprush> yep.
<Burgwork> whiprush, can I get your number?
<whiprush> 248-370-2584
<johnlittle> Burgwork: I think i'll focus on Ubuntu Video. I'll document my idea and save it for later. I don't know if my msg made it to the ML but I'm willing to offer a hand with processes and structure if you guys need it.
<Burgwork> that is a perfect idea
<Burgwork> whiprush, jrb is on vacation. chris blizzard knows nothing about it, but is going to look around for me
<MenZa> jrb = Jenda?
<MenZa> :p
<MenZa> I need to get hold of jenda.
<whiprush> Burgwork: bummer
<_sara> Jenda is actaully on his last day of vacatio, he should be back tomorrow or the day after taht depneds on your time zone
<Burgwork> whiprush, do you have any idea how much a large vinyl sign costs?
<whiprush> nope
<Burgwork> apparently the large vinyl GNOME banner got lost a while back
<Burgwork> whiprush, I can get a 2x5 banner made by monday, black with the gnome logo in black. Should I go for it?
<Burgwork> whiprush, cost would be ~150 CAD
<_sara> CAD?
<Burgwork> canadian dollars
<Burgwork> _sara, sorry, whiprush and I are planning the gnome booth at lwe here
<Burgwork> whiprush, do you have any catchy phrases for this banner?
<whiprush> Burgwork: I like "the official desktop of happy people" myself
<Burgwork> if I am going to be spending money on a banner and the foundation is going to reimburse me, it better be good
<Burgwork> http://www.flickr.com/photos/chromatic/204385680/
<Burgwork> I was thinking of doing that, maybe smaller
<whiprush> Burgwork: hey that's the one we had in boston
<Burgwork> so that is the banner stuck at jrb's place?
<whiprush> I am not sure where it is
<whiprush> I would assume so
<Burgwork> right, that sucks
<Burgwork> we could do that happy people desktop as a sign, it would cost more
<whiprush> ah
<Burgwork> live.gnome.org is also down right now, so I cannot access it
<Burgwork> plus svg --> pdf is not easy
<Burgwork> whiprush, ok, I have cleaned up the happy people sign to make it more clear. Can I email you an svg for thoughts?
<whiprush> Burgwork: stuck with some work stuff at the moment, whatever you think works is nice. :)
<Burgwork> whiprush, http://www.flickr.com/photos/chromatic/204385680/ <-- this big or smaller?
<whiprush> Burgwork: what about something horizontal?
<whiprush> like, a banner banner.
<Burgwork> I have a stand, so that is not an issue
<whiprush> to hang on the back wall thing
<whiprush> ah
<Burgwork> busy stuff like that should go at the front
<matthewrevell> evening all
<matthewrevell> sorry if I appear to have ignored anyone.
<matthewrevell> Time out on the server i was using
<whiprush> hi matthewrevell
<matthewrevell> hey
<whiprush> Burgwork: I wish we were right next to the ubuntu booth
<whiprush> could have done one megabooth of sweetness
<Burgwork> that we could
<Burgwork> fedora might have bitched
* poningru wonders if the next ubocon could be held in florida
<Burgwork> whiprush, marketing list (gnome one)
<whiprush> Burgwork: heh I think that looks great
<Burgwork> whiprush, ok, sounds good
<Burgwork> whiprush, what is the latest on the hotel?
<whiprush> Burgwork: all set.
<whiprush> The Mosser, one block from the convention center
<Burgwork> whiprush, we are two to a room? I assume I am spliting the cost?
<whiprush> no, you get the floor. Employer covers the cost. :)
<Burgwork> prefect, even better
<Burgwork> my bank account is kind of hammered right now
<whiprush> yeah me too, had to pay for this trip and the gnome summit at the same time
<Burgwork> the gnome summit is going to be interesting to pay for
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-08-10
<sara_> hey all, I am wodnering something and need your opinion
<Rinchen> nixternal: email from me in your inbox
<nixternal> Rinchen: you have an email from me in your inbox ;)
<Rinchen> Nix: got it, thanks. And Yes, Mako is the answer.
<Burgundavia> nixternal, Rinchen: Mako is the answer?
<nixternal> on Ubuntu membership
<nixternal> mako still has 4 members to approve
<Rinchen> I'm still waiting on my launchpad update so I can get a cloak, email, and do the other fun things. Nix already has his so I inquired.
<lophyte> what exactly do you have to do for membership? just participate in groups and get 'references' of sorts?
<Madpilot> lophyte, lots of participation, bascially
<ormiret> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<Madpilot> ormiret, beat me too it :)
<ormiret> :)
<lophyte> yeah, I've read it.. just wanted to make it extra clar :P
<lophyte> clear, rather
<Madpilot> also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
<lophyte> ah
<lophyte> well, that's what I'm here for
<bimberi> nixternal: are you one of those four?
<nixternal> what 4?
<nixternal> oh ya
<nixternal> Rich Johnson
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> i got Kubuntu membership in the mean time, so i am good
<lophyte> how do you prove activism?
<Madpilot> lophyte, visibility
<bimberi> nixternal: great.  yes i saw you on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<bimberi> lophyte: the best way to answer that is to read through logs of previous CC meetings - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<nixternal> interesting..joey was approved just never added to the launchpad..so you aren't waiting for mako then, you need to poke and admin to fix it
<lophyte> bimberi: thanks :)
<nixternal> joey, you see that Colorado and Chicago got moved to official as well on the list correct?  the LoCoTeamList that is
<bimberi> lophyte: np :) - btw don't look at mine, i was crap ;p
<lophyte> bimberi: lol
<lophyte> I guess I have to wait a while and allow my contributions to add up
<bimberi> lophyte: yep, that's the way, the phrase "at least two months of visible, significant activity" on the NewMemberHowTo is a good guide
<bimberi> Has an appointment to Canonical's Community Manager position been made yet?
<welshbyte> yup, Jono Bacon
<Rinchen> nix: I missed it but I poked Matthias about that one about 2 weeks ago :-)
<nixternal> kamion as well Rinchen
<bimberi> welshbyte: ahh, thanks
<nixternal> he is probably in bed right now, but he is pretty cool and is very helpful as well
<Madpilot> heh - wonder if mdke's "stop posting long rambling emails to the marketing ML" email will have any affect?
<johnlittle> Not if I start drinking...
<Madpilot> heh
<Madpilot> Don't Drink & IRC. Or Drink & Email. ;)
<johnlittle> Esp in a logged channel
<johnlittle> Is this ugly?: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/
<Madpilot> no, looks good.
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: shiny
<Madpilot> better than the colour scheme I'm currently inflicting on www.ubuntu-ca.org :)
<johnlittle> Bad shiny or shiny happy people shiny?
<nixternal> johnlittle: i liked the old colors better ;)
<nixternal> well, the top logo part actually
<nixternal> colors are good
<nixternal> [21:31]  <Madpilot> heh - wonder if mdke's "stop posting long rambling emails to the marketing ML" email will have any affect?
<nixternal> simple answer:  NO
<nixternal> Difficult and fully detailed answer:
<nixternal> NO
<nixternal> ;)
<Madpilot> cynic :)
<nixternal> hehe
<johnlittle> Can you put that reply in a ten paragraph answer to the ML?
<nixternal> sure
<johnlittle> switched ubuntu video back..it was to shiny
<johnlittle> too
<Madpilot> nixternal, don't forget to use the word 'synergy' at least twice in your long, rambling reply - this is a marketing ML, after all :)
<nixternal> i haven't seen synergy in a while actually
<nixternal> i remember when that was the word for a week
<johnlittle> I like organic synergy personally
<Burgundavia> http://192.168.1.61/official-desktop-happy-corey.png
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, that URL isn't loading for me...
<Burgundavia> oh, crap, sorry, I cannot access ubuntu.ca or -ca.org within my firewall
<johnlittle> 192.168..
<Burgundavia> that is the internal IP, which is very seriously non-routable
<Madpilot> ah, that's why - not a real IP :)
<Burgundavia> substitute ubuntu.ca in there
<Madpilot> http://ubuntu-ca.org/official-desktop-happy-corey.png
<Madpilot> what the heck is that?
<Burgundavia> the GNOME banner I am getting made, once I get PDF generation working
<Burgundavia> imagine that 3' x 5'
<Madpilot> that's a scary looking happy face
<nixternal> Burgundavia: how about a KDE one ;)
* nixternal hides
<johnlittle> KDE users aren't happy nix
<Burgundavia> nixternal: I am at the GNOME booth at LWE
<nixternal> oooh
<nixternal> johnlittle: you better hide
<johnlittle> lol
<nixternal> i am very happy ;)
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: scary, how? got a suggestion on a fix?
<johnlittle> less scariness? j/k
<Madpilot> tone down the big black bug-eyes?
<nixternal> make um bloodshot, the true eyes of a GNOME user ;)
<Burgundavia> http://ubuntu-ca.org/official-desktop-happy-corey.svg
<Burgundavia> nixternal: well, they would be bloodshot *and* non-smiling for a KDE one :)
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> with a bullet hole in the head
<johnlittle> I really like it...but if i stare at it for 10 or 15 seconds i get the feeling it wants to hurt me.. a lot
<nixternal> rofl
<Burgundavia> right, then fix it
<nixternal> i pasted the picture on kubuntu-devel ;p
<nixternal> im waiting patiently for the flaming to begin
<Burgundavia> given I am about to spend $200 CAD on a banner with that on it
<nixternal> i actually like it..it is simple, clean, and concise
<johnlittle> Yeah I like it to..don't think many ppl would find it scary
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, kill the stroke around the eyes, and make the slightly smaller - helps a lot, IMO
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: you have the svg, you do it
<Madpilot> no worries, I am :)
<Madpilot> "We can rebuild him, we have the SVG!" </flashback to cheesy old TV show>
<johnlittle> We can make him...less scary
<johnlittle> people are giving the Get Ubuntu video kid a hard time. hes like the star wars kid of linux
<Madpilot> is "Official Desktop of Happy People" an actual Gnome slogan?
<johnlittle> According to google it is
<Burgundavia> not official, per-se
<johnlittle> de-facto official?
<Burgundavia> strongly pushed and I was given approval by a board member that they would reimburse me for the cost
<Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/official-desktop-happy-corey-2.svg <-- toned down the happy face a fair bit, I think he's non-scary enough now
<johnlittle> Youre bankrolling it? nice
<Madpilot> also, I think the "Does your desktop..." & "Official Desktop..." text should be larger
<johnlittle> It is surprisingly less scary
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, loose that little pale yellow bit under the mouth, too
<Burgundavia> yep, that looks good
<Burgundavia> now I just have to get this thing into a pdf for the sign shop
<Burgundavia> the odyssey
<johnlittle> I hope people start making something besides xgl videos
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, export it as a monster PNG, then use either Scribus's native PDF creation or the GIMP's connection to CUPS_PDF
* Madpilot wishes Inkscape's printing support didn't suck
<Burgundavia> hmm, that is an idea
<Burgundavia> with native cairo and the gtk printing stuff
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, actually, try (in Inkscape) File->Save As, then put the dropdown to PDF
<Burgundavia> doesn't work
<Burgundavia> try it yourself
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: just fyi: it is Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Linux and thus it is Edubuntu, not Edubuntu Linux
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, you need to adjust the page size in Inkscape to match the actual image size
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: it should be
<Madpilot> never mind, that still doesn't work :|
<johnlittle> I was referring to it that way in an attempt to be a little clearer for people new to the subject..but youre right it doesnt work from a branding perspective
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> I bludgeon people for that mistake. Community members merely mean I don't have to go as far ;)
* bimberi is still recovering ;)
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, looks like Inkscape's native PDF creation is still fubar'd - try the giant PNG method
<Madpilot> or figure out the command line cupspdf stuff :)
<johnlittle> Burgundacvia: THink I caught those edits..let me know if you find more
<Burgundavia> indeed, will do
<johnlittle> the ubuntu billboard made diggnation
<adamant1988> yeah, think that's the first linux billboard EVER :P
<Burgundavia> unlikely
<adamant1988> it was sarcasm :P
<johnlittle> Anyone seen the guys in penguin suits giving out ubuntu disks at a steve ballmer speech?
<Madpilot> there's a video of that, isn't there?
<poningru> what are we trying to make?
<johnlittle> Madpilot: yeah..unfortunately the video is boring lol
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/get-ubuntu/
<johnlittle> new video..downloading ubuntu
<adamant1988> Steve Ballmer bothers me
<johnlittle> When he dances linux gains market share
<adamant1988> Well, RSM bothers me almost as much, so meh.
<adamant1988> RMS
<johnlittle> Yeah he costs us a few points..they cancel each other out
<poningru> rofl
<poningru> wtf
* poningru cant see the video
* poningru doesnt have flash
<johnlittle> :(
* #ubuntu-marketing  [freenode-info]  if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!
<matthewrevell> morning human
<nixternal> there goes the neighborhood
<Burgundavia> nixternal: we had one? I guess this cardboard box is mine and that one over there is yours. Hmm, that doesn't leave much for matthewrevell though... ;)
<nixternal> i think i have a spare shoebox just for him
<nixternal> nope, it is my outhouse, sorry
<matthewrevell> nixternal: sounded perfect until you mentioned that
<nixternal> hehe
<matthewrevell> So, what's new?
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: I would love more people to help with the UWN and the Knot2 release information
<nixternal> i have no answer for that question ;)
<nixternal> Burgundavia: btw, Knot2 for Kubuntu is done, except for a link to download it
<Burgundavia> nixternal: cool, but I don't see much cool new crack on it
<Burgundavia> tell my why I want Knot2?
<Burgundavia> what about the new easy zeroconf?
<nixternal> oh it is lovely ;)
<nixternal> you want knot2 to test it, thats why you want it
<Burgundavia> right, sell me
<nixternal> you want to download it, and file about 20 bugs
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: This kinda comes back to my, somewhat disputed, suggestion that some of what's being discussed on the ML amounts to vanity projects.
<Burgundavia> yes
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: There's plenty to do - like UWN and Knot - but people would rather build their own empires, it seems.
<nixternal> good analogy there, i never looked at it that way
<matthewrevell> As for my involvement, I'm definitely up for helping out with UWN. Knot reports I have no experience of.
<Burgundavia> yep
<Madpilot> 'vanity projects' - thank you, now I have a name for what I've been noticing ;)
<digitalmouse> I'm still wondering what happened to the web magazine
<nixternal> hehe exactly
<matthewrevell> digitalmouse: It's raising its head again.
<nixternal> digitalmouse: it is http://fridge.ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> funny, the marketing guy at work (who gets paid for this kind of thing), is just as prone to long winded diaherrea-like mental outgassings
<nixternal> hahahahah
<Madpilot> digitalmouse, the Ubuntu Magazine thing is an undead project, it will not die
<matthewrevell> Some of the idea for content are interesting but the magazine itself is a solution looking for a problem.
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: It seems marketing attracts such people :)
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> it is also a bloody lot of work
<nixternal> it attracted me ;)
<nixternal> hey wait a second ;)
<Burgundavia> my case study is essentially stalled because of that, but I heard chris kenyon is working on a template
<nixternal> now that is an essential project right there
<matthewrevell> Yeah.
<nixternal> how else can you determine what you need to market, and what you don't
<matthewrevell> mdke's post to the ml yesterday sort of said what I'd planned to.
<matthewrevell> However, I'm going to post a "To do" email.
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: I tried posting that type of email
<matthewrevell> People have asked for a to do list several times.
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: Yeah, true
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2006-August/000876.html
<nixternal> matthewrevell: make sure you add "Leave your dreams in the 'Draft Box'" this is for projects only ;)
<Burgundavia> notice the stunning responses
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: I remember, yeah.
<mdke> Burgundavia: things have changed since then... there are a few people who can step up to the plate now
<Burgundavia> in fairness, I didn't really say what I wanted
<matthewrevell> Here's the thing, I don't mind dreams and definitions of what the team should do.
<matthewrevell> But
<mdke> oh, that mail was 4 days ago, yeah
<matthewrevell> We've had a serious of disconnected monolgoues, no dialogue
<nixternal> Burgundavia: i am going to slam together an Ubuntu Edgy setup so I can help with the other os knots as well
<nixternal> actually, i have then all in vmware
<Burgundavia> nixternal: would you mind drafting a "what the Knot announcements need?"
<Burgundavia> I will do a "What does the UWN need" one
<nixternal> im sure i can come up with something
<matthewrevell> While it at it, I'll doa Fridge version :)
<Burgundavia> perfect
<nixternal> the knot announcements need "new and exciting, why edgy is bleeding edge" type stuff
<nixternal> i haven't really gotten that yet..
<Burgundavia> don't tell me, tell the mailing list
<nixternal> it needs to hit the dev mailing list as well i think
<Burgundavia> you can tell people, "you can just list a one line idea, even if you can't write it"
<Burgundavia> -devel interaction should come on a one on one basis
<nixternal> kde 3.5.4 isn't bleeding edge at all, it is bug fixes to 3.5.2 > 3.5.3
<Burgundavia> rather than having poor developers swamped
<nixternal> im going to bring that up at the Kubuntu meeting...i need to add that as an agenda item
<Burgundavia> oh, btw, feel free to critque issue9. I currently have a bunch of brain dump ideas in there that need to be cleaned up
<mdke> great, freenode is "full"
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: that is likely what happened to you
<nixternal> heh
<Madpilot> no, I got caught in that failure of the 'main rotation server', whatever that is
<Madpilot> there was a /w from lilo just after I finally got back on
<Burgundavia> matthewrevell: if you want good bikeshedding, see the new gnome webiste stuff that is happening
<matthewrevell> Burgundavia: Yeah, I've been following it on and off. Cheers.
<nixternal> Kubuntu Edgy Eft Knot Releases - Knot 2 is pretty much complete, but for the next releases, we need content that is "Edgy", the bleeding edge stuff as reported in the original Edgy Eft announcement by sabdfl
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
<nixternal> i added that as an agenda item for tomorrow's kubuntu meeting
<mdke> we need to focus this magazine project
<nixternal> heh, focus it to where though?
<Burgundavia> on producing magazine articles
<nixternal> it could be focused to the fridge, to the wiki, and maybe even some to the UWN
<Burgundavia> large, full, colour, nice articles that can stand on their own
<nixternal> i have written articles (techie howto, reviews, etc.) for like Maximum PC, Tech Edge, and what not..and have written online articles much the same that have been displayed on [H] ardOCP, Anandtech and what not in the past, and I worked for a few years for Virtual-Hideout
<nixternal> while doing that, everything they setup ran very smooth
<Burgundavia> writing is hard
<mdke> nixternal: fridge/wiki/UWN is exactly right
<nixternal> i can do technical aspect articles, and reviews i am good at..i can be professional with it, or i can have fun with it
<nixternal> with the UWN, we need to clarify, is it for the "Development Community" or is it for the "User Community"
<nixternal> i think a lot of people are confused by it
<Burgundavia> it is "for the community"
<Burgundavia> http://inkscape.sourceforge.net/win32/pdf/ <-- can people compare the test2.pdf and the corey-2.svg and see if you think they are a pretty good?
<nixternal> they look very good!!!
<Burgundavia> they match pretty closely?
<nixternal> win32 directory?  no need to explain why there would be Gnome propaganda in a win32 directory ;)
<nixternal> the smiley face is different, noticeably as well
<Burgundavia> right, that would be because i had help rendering that
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, test2.pdf looks pixelated here
<Burgundavia> zoom in, it is a evince bug
<Madpilot> yeah, it's badly pixellated @ full size
<Madpilot> ah... until evince gets around to redrawing the damn thing... nevermind
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, how did you get the PDF done?
<Burgundavia> inkscape 0.44, but it appears .44 will do it as weel
<Madpilot> cool
* mdke would hope so too
<Madpilot> you mean 0.43? ;)
<Burgundavia> yep
<Madpilot> is Inkscape 0.44 in dapper-backports yet?
<Burgundavia> don't know
<Madpilot> you just got the .deb from inkscape, or did someone else do the PDFs for you?
<matthewrevell> test
<Burgundavia> night
<mindspin> toast
<mdke> matthewrevell: psst
<matthewrevell> yo
<mdke> ok, your email. Good stuff
<matthewrevell> ta. Would hate to miss something.
<mdke> I'd note that there are a number of aspects of the UWN that the magazine people can contribute to
<matthewrevell> Okay, will update the mail.
<mdke> in particular underline "feature of the week" and "in the press"
<mdke> I can't think of anything else
<matthewrevell> cool, thanks.
<matthewrevell> Right, posted
<mdke> very good
<mindspin> well done
<mindspin> you could have added: structured regular irc-meetings
<mindspin> and basic markezing concept
<mindspin> should be a todo, but does not really fit in your messages context
<matthewrevell> mindspin: Nah, I was more keen on saying, "Look, here we have some things to do". I'm gonna deal with the structure etc in my next post :)
<mindspin> hehe
<mindspin> for the media/PR part, it is absolutely necessary to work with the LoCos, but for general diskussion about strategies and ideas an "international" background would not harm
<matthewrevell> I see us providing ideas of best practice and resources/help to loco teams. Seems to make sense to me.
<matthewrevell> they know their local media
<mindspin> they know their media, but they mostly have no idea of approaching the media
<mindspin> here in germany , journalists come to ubuntupeople, not the other way round
<matthewrevell> cool :)
<mindspin> and its strictly the tech media that asks, In my opinion we should target public-media
<mindspin> in germany , linux is =suse in "regular media" and they get their articles, but ubuntu is still a geeky thing here...
<mindspin> this is a situation, where the loco team has to deal with, but strategies and ideas and some basic PR-skill advise could be done by us..
<mindspin> the media part of the team should contact all locos tell our purpose and ask them how to help
<mindspin> in reality you will probably find only one or two people doing press stuff in each loco
<matthewrevell> If that
<mindspin> ;-)
<mindspin> the german spokesperson for the ubuntudeutschland verein has resigned a month ago and there is still no info about wether there is a new one in sight..
<mindspin> beside the first class relationship between the ubuntu/kubuntu community here...
<mdke> what is ubuntudeutschland verein?
<mindspin> the official partner of canonical and holder of "ubuntu" in germany
<mdke> "official partner"?
<mindspin> http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/
<mdke> I don't speak german, that is the organisation set up by Matthias to own the loco servers, right?
<mindspin> yes
<mdke> and it has some other role except for simply owing the servers?
<mindspin> it's difficult to explain cause its concerned to law stuff I cannot translate correctly
<mindspin> give me a second
<mindspin> http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/file/agreement/pdf/
<mdke> right yeah
<mdke> but that organisation just exists for the locoteam to own the servers... it doesn't have any other role right?
<mindspin> thats where the discussion may start
<mindspin> there is a unsuiteable atmosphere between some keypersons of kubuntu.de and ubuntu-users (the german ubunt community) and some of the "verein"people
<mindspin> I#m not involved and never want to be...
<mdke> and which of the two represents the locoteam?
<mindspin> you should approach both
<mdke> but which of the two is the locoteam?
<mindspin> as the agreement states (if I understand it correctly) the ubuntu-verein
<mindspin> but you cannot keep out the kubuntu people....
<mdke> so the verein thing has stopped representing the community?
<mdke> the obvious approach is for them to step down and let others step int
<mindspin> you got me wrong, spokesperson should have been read as Press relation speaker
<mdke> anyway, sounds like a nice mess
<mdke> jono will no doubt have fun with them
<mindspin> yup
<Madpilot> mdke, I think the German thing has already surfaced - reached Mark, even
<mindspin> it can be handled, especially by a not involved non german
<mindspin> its kinda solved but now we see the borders that had been build...
<mdke> well, I certainly remember that kubuntu.de nonsense a few months back
<digitalmouse> 'german thing?'  *raises head, as he lives in Germany
<digitalmouse> *though an American/Canadian by birth
<mindspin> seperation in fractions and splinter groups
<digitalmouse> ah
<digitalmouse> egos in other words..
<mindspin> yup
<digitalmouse> *sigh*
<mindspin> the nerd factor
<digitalmouse> heh
<mindspin> socially handicaped
<digitalmouse> I guess I've been known to do that as well, but atleast when I am aware of it I can step away from the ego long enough to see what really needs to be done (in my opinion)
<digitalmouse> and accept input from others
<mdke> lol @ the nerd factor
<mindspin> a lack of communication skills and social intelligence is normal for people living in a binary world
<mindspin> read common for normal
<digitalmouse> oh and I realize Burgundavia, left, but a quick comment of his/her statement about the ubuntu mag: "it is also a bloody lot of work" - true, but the technical aspect has already been proven that it can be solved (server, CMS to use), and all that remains are people to climb on board to actually *write* content (plus editor/proof).
<digitalmouse> related to the current topic, as it seems to be only a break in communications
<mdke> I'd like to see the idea of the magazine disappear completely as a marketing team project (btw Burg is a he)
<mindspin> can anybody explain to me what a printed magazines's purpose could be and who would buy/read it?
<digitalmouse> mindspin- this is why I play Ultimate Frisbee and do cycle-tours on a regular basis- to keep in touch with the rest of the world :-)
<mdke> it's completely clear to me that the ideas of those interested in the magazine can be well channelled into the UWN, fridge, documentation
<Madpilot> mindspin, it sounds really cool when you talk about it - beyond that, I'm not sure either
<matthewrevell> yup
<mindspin> Madpilot: about what?
<digitalmouse> I'm not for a printed mag... my take early on (we are talking months ago in the old forum on the subject) was that we only needed a website with a good CMS, and perhaps offered a PDF download for those that needed to kill trees.
<Madpilot> mindspin, your comment about who would buy/download the mag
<Madpilot> and the purpose thereof
<mindspin> comment?
<mindspin> it was aquestion
<mindspin> "can anybody explain to me what a printed magazines's purpose could be and who would buy/read it?"
<Madpilot> right, and my answer was "it sounds really cool"
<mindspin> ah
<mindspin> not to me sorry
<elkbuntu> i realise ive come in to the middle of this... but i dont quite see how a magazine be any different to what we have already with the newsletter, fridge, etc, other than being another suck on time and resources
<mindspin> and "you" meant anybody
<Madpilot> I also left the </sarcasm> tag off the end ;)
<mindspin> ;-)
<digitalmouse> mindspin: but it was commentary too- there really is not much need for a 'printed' rag on ubuntu, given the large amounts of content available.  about the only thing I see the mag doing is to bundled those resources together in a friendly 'new-user' format so that people know where to go, and perhaps learn something new about ubuntu and its spinoffs.  I was thinking more along the lines of TUX magazine in format and content (albeit
<digitalmouse> bondle*
<mdke> elkbuntu: absolutely right
<digitalmouse> ack
<digitalmouse> bundle*
<matthewrevell> digitalmouse: A new user intro pack would be something different though, and possibly more a Doc Team thing
<digitalmouse> good point
<matthewrevell> They already do something like that, so could build on it
<elkbuntu> as much as i  ubuntu, i wouldnt pay for a magazine when there's this thing called 'the internet'
<mindspin> its definitely the fridge and uwn where the magazine stuff should go to..
<digitalmouse> whatever the 'magazine stuff' is menat to be, that is...
<digitalmouse> meant*
<digitalmouse> (sorry, no caffine yet today)
<matthewrevell> tbh I think the plans for a printed mag were swiftly booted
<mdke> I think if we can make it clearer on the fridge that there is an area for articles as well as "pure news", the magazine project can drift away
<elkbuntu> if we want magazine exposure, then we should rather infiltrate existing tech or linux magazines and get regular articles in them or columns
<matthewrevell> However, the magazine exists because it's a cool shiny thing to do
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: Absolteuly! I've been saying that for ages :)
<mindspin> you are my Woman elkbuntu
<matthewrevell> mindspin: steady on!
<elkbuntu> the -au loco team managed to get into APC, which is australian personal computer
<mdke> very cool
<digitalmouse> agreed- in the old now-missing forum posts on the topic, I suggested web-only, and provide PDF or text for those who wanted to read 'offline', but make no effort towards print
<matthewrevell> mdke: Yeah, we need to work on the Fridge. This is where a get together would help, to thrash out ideas.
<elkbuntu> gimme a sec and i'll pull up the scan they let us have to show around
<digitalmouse> good idea elk!
<digitalmouse> (regarding adding articles to other mags)
<mdke> matthewrevell: yeah. I'd like to see those members on the team who are better at code than writing step up and do some cool things with the CMS
<matthewrevell> yes
<matthewrevell> nixternal: is a drupal man, I believe
<matthewrevell> right, meeting
<mdke> ah, good
<elkbuntu> http://www.flickr.com/photos/duivesteyn/209999468/
<elkbuntu> mind you, it's more a pimping of the loco, but the way he went about it was to simply contact the mag
<elkbuntu> now, afk for Lost
<digitalmouse> mdke, as one of the earlier supporter of the 'tech/feature' aspect of the ubuntu mag CMS - I've done writing, desktop publishing, editing, *and* I'm self-employed as a website programmer for over 5 years that focuses on CMS support and mods for nearly anything from Joomla to Jaws, to MODx/Etomite, to TYPO3) - so if you have ideas on what 'cool things' you'd like to see, I would be interested in hearing them.
<digitalmouse> supporters*
<digitalmouse> (stepping out for lunch- back in 5 minutes)
<mdke> digitalmouse: yeah: we've put some early ideas on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge and we'd like to hear more, in particular about potentially having different sections of the fridge, such as "news", "articles", etc
<digitalmouse> ah so more interest in expanding the fridge than creating a whole new beastie, eh?
<mdke> absolutely no new beasties
<mdke> makeover, news ideas, certainly
<digitalmouse> sounds good to me
<digitalmouse> but I fear that might fall on the deaf ears of those wanting to make a separate 'ubuntu magazine' thingy
<mdke> no matter. Those wanting to make a separate ubuntu magazine can always do so, but I don't think it should be an official project or seen as part of what the marketing team does
<mdke> Sara has written to me recently about how the magazine contributors can contribute to the fridge, I'm just replying now
<digitalmouse> I have not visited the fridge in quite a while, so I'm re-acquainting myself, as well as the wiki
<mdke> cool
<digitalmouse> what-the-heck...  since my writing/editing skills are still pretty good, I've signed up as an editor for the Fridge.  maybe I can contribute at least this way, until the whole 'ubuntu mag' dust settles
<digitalmouse> or even after.  I enjoy writing/editing as much as programming, so there is little reason to 'jump ship' if a magazine comes to light.  I like to think I'm flexible.
<mdke> digitalmouse: you're not an Ubuntu member yet, right?
<MenZa>  /whois digitalmouse
<matthewrevell> I'm not a member yet.
<mdke> terrible
<matthewrevell> I'm an impostor
<digitalmouse> hmm... not sure... I don't *think* I'm a member.. I've signed up to so many things, I may have overlooked it...  how does one become a 'member' exactly?
<Madpilot> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<Madpilot> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto - good places to start
* kgoetz hugs elkbuntu 
* elkbuntu hugs kgoetz
<kgoetz> :)
<MenZa> Hi Melissa :)
<kgoetz> hi MenZa
<MenZa> lo kgoetz
<kgoetz> :)
<ompaul> \o/ \o/ \o/ matthewrevell well spoked
* ompaul crawls back under his rock
<kgoetz> hi ompaul
<ompaul> kgoetz, hi there
<kgoetz> :)
* ompaul would love a script that would grab all the gnome looks stuff 
* ompaul is kind of in a funny humour with too much bandwidth doing nothing
<kgoetz> heh. i can fix that :)
* kgoetz runs debmirror with teh 'download debian sparc ' switch
<elkbuntu> hi MenZa :)
* kgoetz sighs. not again! (this is tottaly OT btw...), all the users on the server just got kicked out of a group. :S, yay for ubuntu
* kgoetz shoots mesanger
<matthewrevell> cheers opaul - just got back from lunch.
<matthewrevell> heading into another meeting now :(
<kgoetz> matthewrevell: :( sounds busy
<digitalmouse> MadPilot: well that counts me out of membership at the moment.. while I might have posted a bit on the forums, and installed n-number of ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu machines (lost count), I don't really qualify, based on the requirements listed in the wiki.  :(
<digitalmouse> most of what could be called 'contributions' to the community is fairly off-the-record- local or regional stuff:  help, installs, training, etc.  not much I could document I think.
<kgoetz> digitalmouse: you thinking of going for memebership?
<digitalmouse> I suppose I could make a wiki page and stuff it with:   "A complete description of your contributions to Ubuntu" and "Your plans and ideas for Ubuntu in the near and far future", but that would be about it at the moment.
<digitalmouse> kgoetz: well I was hoping to help out with editing/writing for the fridge, but that requires membership, so yes- need to work that part out first
<elkbuntu> i've got no idea if what i've done is sufficient enough
<kgoetz> digitalmouse: sounds like a strange requirement :(
<digitalmouse> instead of pushing forward a separate ubuntu mag (which I had helped out with months before, but seems to be going no-where at the moment) it made more sense to help out with existing publications like the fridge
<digitalmouse> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto I can only provide the last two 'requirements' at the moment.. plus maybe point to a post or two that I tried to contribute with.
* kgoetz looks at list
* kgoetz has decided not to go for membership at all
<digitalmouse> also http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember (as posted earlier), under 'Becoming a member'... I'm all for ubuntu and its off-spring, it's just that my contributions are largely regional and personal...  I suppose I could get everyone I've helped with Ubuntu to sign an affidavit :-p
<matthewrevell> I must dip in here and say that there's nothing stopping anyone writing for the Fridge, member or not.
<matthewrevell> It would help to be a member, as that shows a certain level of commitment etc, before being an editor.
<elkbuntu> those points are all relevant to whether the contributions are considered 'significant'
<matthewrevell> I'm not yet a member, but I'm an editor etc
<digitalmouse> "we the undersigned to hereby state that Jimm has helped us in the past with not shooting ourselves in the foot when it comes to installing or using Ubuntu"  :-p
<digitalmouse> interesting matthew- according to the 'join the team' part of fridge, you need to be a member, if I read that correctly
<elkbuntu> digitalmouse, who you know, not what you know
<matthewrevell> Yeah, to be an editor.
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: Not entirely
<matthewrevell> Jenda became a member, so it can't be that hard :-D
<matthewrevell> <joke everyone>
<matthewrevell> :)
<elkbuntu> rofl
* kgoetz wonders if he could fake a contribution big enough for membership -probably, but thats not really teh point.
<elkbuntu> would you have said it if he was in the channel :P
<matthewrevell> You just need a couple of people to vouch for you.
<kgoetz> lol matthewrevell
<digitalmouse> helping out 50+ people no-one has ever heard of in the Ubuntu community probably does not qualify much, without written proof
<matthewrevell> yes I'd have said that. It's a logged channel, after all :)
<kgoetz> matthewrevell: jenda had a few channels ;)
<matthewrevell> digitalmouse: You .au?
<digitalmouse> .de though originally from U.S.
<digitalmouse> moved over to Europe because it was saner...or safer... take your choice
<matthewrevell> digitalmouse: Then I'm sure you know some Ubuntu members. They can vouch for you having helped people etc
<matthewrevell> It's not so much about proof, per se
<matthewrevell> More about people saying, "yeah, this person gets it, they've shown they get it"
<digitalmouse> probably not directly known...  and here in the north-west, not likely... hmm... maybe Bremen, but I doubt we know each other
<digitalmouse> just my work-colleagues I guess... that might be useful
<matthewrevell> Okay, well, put together a wiki page that describes what you've done. Even just hanging out and debating the marketing team is a contribution at the moment, as it's up in the air
<digitalmouse> but we are all developers here so debian based stuff is par for the course... though I give out CDs when I have them
<matthewrevell> Then, peoplewho know yuou in here may say, "yeah, I've heard digitalmouse talk about working with people on one to one advocacy/support etc"
<matthewrevell> Basically, I'd recommend putting your wiki page together
<matthewrevell> See if you can get some existing members - one or two - to vouch for you.
<matthewrevell> Maybe add a couple of pages to the wiki, some tips or something.
<digitalmouse> ok.. sounds like a plan... I'll work on a wiki page.... thanks for the tips
<elkbuntu> writing up some howtos that havent already been done is a good move also
<kgoetz> as is working on ones in CatagoryCleanup... people look at recent changes to see how often your name comes up
<digitalmouse> hmm... another good point
<digitalmouse> now the fun part... finding time to sit down and write :-)
<kgoetz> digitalmouse: heh. know the feeling.
* kgoetz has written 5 howtos in all his time using ubuntu, 4 of them last week
<digitalmouse> cool
<kgoetz> speaking of which, theres some errors in one that need fixing....
* kgoetz adds to the home todo list
<kgoetz> digitalmouse: look at any app you use that isnt well documented, and hammer out a quick howto, its not hard ;)
* kgoetz stops pushing work on digitalmouse 
<digitalmouse> heh
<digitalmouse> well, not many people seem to use Revelation
<digitalmouse> (password manager)
<digitalmouse> or has it been doc'd already?
* kgoetz apt-cache shows it... never heard of it ;)
<digitalmouse> quite a nice little proggy for tracking passwords and account info.. ya just got to remember the password to *that* app of course :-p
<kgoetz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/YourIntrest is where to look first, then wiki.ubuntu.com/YourIntrest
<kgoetz> hehe
<digitalmouse> thanks kgoetz
<kgoetz> np. you should ask in #ubuntu-doc for more help - thats where the great doc minds hang out ;)
<digitalmouse> whoops- was too literal... 'YourIntrest     This page does not exist yet. '  heh
<digitalmouse> not enough coffee today
<kgoetz> lol
<MenZa> No such thing as 'enough coffee'.
<kgoetz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Nexuiz <- heh. i just found this, i downloaded it from the nexiuz site, extracted it and ran it... didnt know about fancy installer things
<digitalmouse> there was an interesting installer project for KDE (and in principle any program for any distro)...  gah! can't recall it now... it was neat in that you install the program and if you wanted to remove the program you just deleted the installer (installer was also run-time with all dependencies).
<kgoetz> klick (sounds like it anyway)
<digitalmouse> yes, that's the one
<digitalmouse> have not used in a while (got proficient with apt-get and adept)
<digitalmouse> but it is/was a good idea I thought
<kgoetz> never liked the look/sound of it. some people swear by it
<matthewrevell> Did anyone do a t-shirt design?
<elkbuntu> i did
<kgoetz> matthewrevell: no, i'm not really creative :)
<elkbuntu> http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/tshirtidea.png was my submission
<elkbuntu> err, sec...
<elkbuntu> ok, now :P
<elkbuntu> .svg != .png ;)
<kgoetz> hehe
* kgoetz wonders what to put on an ubuntu tshirt
<kgoetz> a big evil sabdfl planting an ubuntu flag on the world , with 'ubuntu for *all* human beings' (or similar text) ;)
<matthewrevell> elnice
<matthewrevell> I mean, elkbuntu nice
<kgoetz> or "we use non free softwrae (LP), so you dont have to" etc.
<MenZa> matthewrevell, el nice!
<MenZa> :)
<matthewrevell> :)
<kgoetz> sudo vi /etc/dnsmasq
<kgoetz> er, oops.
<elkbuntu> :)
<kgoetz> :S
<MenZa> :D
* kgoetz edits some dns lookups
<elkbuntu> vi? ewww! BURN!
<kgoetz> :O
<elkbuntu> :P
<kgoetz> # Anti MS-check-your-system redirect
<kgoetz> address=/update.microsoft.com/192.168.0.2
<kgoetz> :)
* kgoetz drops a dns redirect on elkbuntu 
<MenZa> kgoetz, how about 127.0.0.1 instead?
<MenZa> :D
<kgoetz> MenZa: on that site is a message "blocked in dns" :)
<MenZa> :)
* kgoetz sorries - feel free to go back to shirts :)
<mindspin> The server at meldra.no-ip.info is taking too long to respond
<kgoetz> i can host it. try again
<kgoetz> lynx loaded it fine.    MeldraNet is Melissa Draper's personal local network. The network currently consists of two computers.
<mindspin> nothing here, no ping reply neither to the name, nor to the ip
<kgoetz> i wasnt getting ping either.
<kgoetz> lynx has 'frozen' though :/ wonder if its elkbuntu s fault
<elkbuntu> o.O
<kgoetz> or if my ssh session has died - always possiable i suppose
<kgoetz> %s/possable/probable
<mindspin> prosibble
<kgoetz> :/
<mindspin> i see something
<mindspin> The first computer is a Dell OptiPlex G1 Pentium II 350mhz with 256mb RAM running as a http server and a Compaq Presario AMD Sempron with 512mb RAM that runs a webcam server for a webcam that is usually pointed at Melissa's fishtank.
<elkbuntu> that is all soo out of date
<elkbuntu> well the webcam part is anyway
<kgoetz> "a webcam that is usually pointed at Melissa's fishtank.
<kgoetz> "
<kgoetz> ROFL
<elkbuntu> the fishtank is months gone
<kgoetz> elkbuntu: well fix it then :)
<elkbuntu> it probably says the compaq is running windows too
<kgoetz> hm. i feel better about my servers after lookin at that phpsysinfo
<mindspin> seems too be a xxxl t-shirt
<kgoetz> elkbuntu: thats a fiarly broken site :(
<kgoetz> oooh, one of those optiplex's *knows them well*
<elkbuntu>  optiplex'
<kgoetz> heh. sure.
<elkbuntu> the little beast ran gnome fine, albeit a wee bit sluggish when i had half-a-dozen things going
<kgoetz> take out half the ram and try again... :)
<elkbuntu> hell no
<kgoetz> heh.
<elkbuntu> although it ran fine on the 160mb ram i got it with
* kgoetz doesnt mind them as such, but i'v had to many issues 
<elkbuntu> the only issue i had was that the graphics card is old and crap and i had to set colour depth to 16 to get a resolution above 800x600
<kgoetz> 16 bit?
<kgoetz> or 16 colour?
<elkbuntu> bit
* kgoetz runs everything @ 16 bit
<kgoetz> whats wrong with thta :/
<elkbuntu> wtf? insane
<elkbuntu> 24bit ftw
<kgoetz> why?
<elkbuntu> less ringing in gradients
<kgoetz> ah, of course.
* elkbuntu thinks that's the right word
* kgoetz wonderd why gnome-term looked so ordinary
<kgoetz> :P
<elkbuntu> rofl
<MenZa> elkbuntu:
<MenZa> <justie> i did something stupid
<MenZa> <justie> chmod -x chmod
<MenZa> <justie> anyone knows how to fix it?
<elkbuntu> i saw
<kgoetz> hahahahahahaa
<kgoetz> send them a new one - fastst way
* digitalmouse catches up on the last hour of text above
<digitalmouse> "we use non free softwrae (LP), so you dont have to"  - ha!  I like that one
<digitalmouse> (minus the misspelling of course)
<mindspin> digitalmouse: where are you in germany?
<kgoetz> digitalmouse: :P spelling is optional
<digitalmouse> Oldenburg Germany - west of Bremen by about an hour
<digitalmouse> (by car)
<digitalmouse> ok 30 minutes or less if you drive a BMW or Mercedes or Porsche
<kgoetz> digitalmouse: for those of us not familar with teh country... which corner? ;)
<kgoetz> *quadrant
<digitalmouse> north west
<kgoetz> ah, havent been there
<digitalmouse> closer to Netherlands
<mindspin> the flat part of germany ;-)
* kgoetz was in the south/south west when he visited... a decade ago
<mindspin> north-west
<mindspin> I#m sitting mre in the center, Frankfurt
<digitalmouse> so if you have an idea where Hamburg is, I'm west/southwest of there.   googlemaps is your friend!  search "Oldenburg, Niedersachsen, Germany"
<digitalmouse> then zoom out to get a reference
* kgoetz seaches
<kgoetz> +r
<digitalmouse> seachesr?
<kgoetz> :/ searches
<kgoetz> hm. Gottingen sounds familar
* kgoetz wonders how many heh remembers from his visit, and how many from bombing them playing Civ2
<digitalmouse> heh
<digitalmouse> I flew around here in MS Flight Sim 2 months before I came here... gave me a good feel for distances between places
<kgoetz> i think we went to koln, not sure if we got further north
<kgoetz> hehe
<digitalmouse> Cologne?
<digitalmouse> = Koln
* kgoetz doesnt have umlout on his keyboard
<kgoetz> just below essen
<kgoetz> 50~km
<digitalmouse> heh you mean these fun characters:   and  plus  and 
<mindspin> kln
<kgoetz> heh. yeh, them.
<digitalmouse> I'm so used to the german keyboard, I have trouble when installing a new machine that defaults to english keyboard on first boot
<kgoetz> lol.
<digitalmouse> the z and why are reversed for one, plus = - ? / \ are in the wrong places (to me, now)
<digitalmouse> ack  y I meant
<mindspin> yup
<kgoetz> mm. i tried qwertz for a while, but i couldnt handle it :), i'm /not/ used to it
<mindspin> and :
<digitalmouse> (GAIM replaces y with why automagically, if I don't pay attention)
<digitalmouse> heh
<kgoetz> digitalmouse: i guesed :)
* kgoetz thinks about going home
<kgoetz> gotta reboot rommel, which means disconnection Kamping_Kaiser
<mindspin> do you call your machines after former german city mayors ?
<kgoetz> heh no, thats the only remotely german box name i have.
<kgoetz> otheres include Evangelion, Digital, and jceasar
<kgoetz> (and that was actually named after the SS general)
* kgoetz goes home
<mindspin> rommel was not related whatsoever with the ss
<kgoetz> i'll see you all in 30 min~
<kgoetz> mindspin: yes, i'll keep talking when i get back :)
<ompaul> digitalmouse, near butchers street
<ompaul> eine stuck von koln
<digitalmouse> my boxes are all named after Alice in Wonderland characters...  doormouse is the router/firewall, madhatter is my dual-boot lin/win laptop, whiterabbit is my primary desktop, redqueen is the girlfriend's laptop, tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum are my experimental cluster nodes, with alice being their controller (they run mostly @home distributed computing projects), walrus is my fileserver/printserver
<elkbuntu> mindspin, i think he was referring to this rommel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel
<digitalmouse> butchers street?  never heard of it... and Koln is quite a ways away from me :-p
<ompaul> digitalmouse, at least it is not Whuppertal
<digitalmouse> heh, true, true.....   and speaking of home... guess I have done enough damage at the office- time to get out of here... talk to you folk later!
<mindspin> elkbuntu: I know, i was just a bit nitpicking
<digitalmouse> folks*
* digitalmouse exits stage left
<elkbuntu> mindspin, hehe, thanks for the list reply ;)
<mindspin> I normally refuse to send "metoos" but if it comes to decisions at last, its good to know who stands for what
<matthewrevell> mindspin: yup
* mindspin suffers from long time ireland -holiday effect, listening to irish music and getting "homesick" for a foreign country...
<elkbuntu> mindspin, yeah, 'me too's are often just noise, but: "It is permitted in time of grave danger to walk with the devil until you have crossed the bridge,"
<mindspin> hehe
<elkbuntu> nice little proverby thing, bulgarian iirc
<digitalmouse> come to Germany!  we have blondes and redheads and brunettes, oh my!
<mindspin> digitalmouse: I just came back from a far too short holiday in ireland and it has always the result that I want to move to the emerals island...
<mindspin> digging for jobs, listening to music, reading reports about hurling semi-finals and so on...
<mindspin> last week I bought a bottle of bushmills just out of nostagian feelings
<digitalmouse> funny thing is that I've been here 6 years now, and don't miss the US at all - well except my folks and a few friends.
<mindspin> but this belongs more to #ubuntu-offtopic...
<digitalmouse> ok really going now before it rains....
<digitalmouse> Oldenburg, Niedersachsen, Germany
<digitalmouse> ack
<digitalmouse> wrong paste
* digitalmouse exits stage left... for real this time
<mindspin> bye digitalmouse
<digitalmouse> ciao
<sara_> hello all, I am wondering if we still need a magazine?
<mindspin> I think the (wo)manpower should go to the fridge
<digitalmouse> hello sara - we were just talking about that earlier (as you may have read)... I'm interested in the idea and months ago I offered my services as editor/webmaster/occasional writer... but the implementation/execution needs a bit of work.. I don't see a problem technically, but it needs to be determined how best to provide original content that the other well known resources (like the fridge provides) do not have- otherwise we may b
<sara_> uhh
<sara_> I think that you are right digitla mouse, what kind of content you had in mind
<sara_> The thing is that I keep on getting e-mails from people that want a magazinem so maybe we should ask them as a whole
<digitalmouse> but what can a magazine do that the current resources don't do now?
<digitalmouse> and I would love to continue discussing, but I'm late for leaving the office... I'll catch up with you folks later... ciao!
<sara_> we can fill avoid  and be more current
<mindspin> a printed one? or a online one or online for "selfprint" one ?
<digitalmouse> (I'll leave this up to log things)
<sara_> What I mean is that Corey Burger recentyl posted about the add/remove marketing
<sara_> http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=94
<sara_> and I think that he is right there is no place where we have shown exposure to that
<sara_> That is why I suggest we make that part of our magazine, an articel or videokast about it, just showing it off and stuff
<sara_> We can monthly take needs that arise here and feel that need. What we produce could become part of the documnetation
<mindspin> But why in an extra magazine and not as part/subsection of the fridge?
<sara_> As it stands right now How-to are not a marketing tool but improving them and giving some of them monthly exposure is
<sara_> I think taht we might do that, I we are working on that
<elkbuntu> why not the constant exposure that The Fridge is already receiving?
<mindspin> I see there is a lot of potetially good use, but I can't get why it has to be a standalone magazine
<sara_> I think that we are moving way from beign a stand alone magazine , but to be a part of the fridge
<sara_> we still need to follow our plans is just that we will be news and information section of the fridge
<matthewrevell> sara_: I can see loads of great ways we can work together. The Fridge basically is the magazine, or can be
<sara_> Matt exactly
<elkbuntu> that's exactly our point. the fridge can grow, and infact the fridge guys were talking in here earlier about how they *want* to grow on what's already there
<matthewrevell> The Fridge can grow to do the cool stuff you're talking about
<matthewrevell> And you can be an integral part of that
<mindspin> sounds good
<sara_> What we need to do now is work on that part of the fridge
<matthewrevell> Yeah
* Kamping_Kaiser hug elkbuntu , matthewrevell , digitalmouse and mindspin (if still around)
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, and sara_
<mindspin> wb Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> ty
<sara_> so I'll show you all waht we were working on and we will become the news and infomartion part of the fridge
<nixternal> good mornin' everyone!
<mindspin> ah
<matthewrevell> sara_: Well, we already news, but yes it'd be good to have you working on articles and news for the Fridge
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey nixternal
<Kamping_Kaiser> brb.
<sara_> that is waht I meant that we don't neeed to stop working but work on how we can merge witht he fridge
<matthewrevell> Yeah, no need to stop working, but I think we all agree it makes sense to do it in the context of the Fridge
<matthewrevell> Perhaps post your proposal to both fridge-devel and ubuntu-marketing lists
<sara_> well' we need to make the news section better
<nixternal> i think it is more than just merging with the fridge...howto section for the wiki, news for the fridge, developer spotlight for the uwn/fridge
<nixternal> i just had an idea, but where it went i dont' know
<elkbuntu> anyway everyone, im off to bed. g'night!
<nixternal> nite elkbuntu
<mindspin> sleep tight elkbuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> back again
<Kamping_Kaiser> night elkbuntu :'(
<sara_> nixternal- yeah I alreay contacted people from behind ubuntu to see if we can work toghether
<mindspin> nixternal: the fridge will grow into a news/magazine/(docu) thing
<sara_> mindspin- that sounds like a good place to go
<nixternal> oh, i remember my idea....i think it might be cool to spotlight "howto's" on the wiki maybe, and put it in the UWN, or create a "spotlight" on the fridge
<nixternal> mindspin: that is the plan of the fridge afaik
<mindspin> if we get the online journalist to reading and quoting the fridge everything will be perfect
<sara_> It hink that I sent an e-mail about taht
<sara_> that would be nice to have like the How-to of the week
<nixternal> mindspin: i apologize, i misread your statement ;)
<sara_> We can expand on the information and make it more attractive, eye candy
<nixternal> expand on the information is great, and that should be done on the wiki, of course w/o the eye candy...and now doing a spotlight on that how-to and providing eye candy would be the task, which would be good
<sara_> i think in teh frdige we should have and update on the developments, not just like the UWN with new packages and stuff but  a show off type ogf thing
<nixternal> as i think that would lead more people to editing the wiki, and creating pages as well...people like that feeling you get when you have been acknowledged by the "community"
<sara_> nixternal- about the how-to exactly that way if we see a need for one we cna make one and have it back on the wiki withou all the eye candy
<mindspin> btw. is there a link to the fridge-developer list I can#t see it on the ubuntu site
<nixternal> bingo sara_ ;)
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-fridge ?
<sara_> back to my example we can have screekast that show wha tis coming on the next ubuntu
<nixternal> mindspin: im a bloomin' idiot at this time...a link to mail the list ;)
<nixternal> i just gave you the link to the developer list...lol
<sara_> that way they just don't read about what new packages, but get exicted about it. Many software companies do taht already
<matthewrevell> I've got to drive home now, but just my few thoughts on all this.
<mindspin> nixternal: indeed ;-)
<sara_> like my katapult example
<matthewrevell> sara_: Your ideas sound great for the expansion of The Fridge. The new sections of The Fridge will have to be well thought out and proposed, because we need to win round someone like Nixternal to modify Drupal, then the rest of the community to help contribute.
<nixternal> we definitely need some drupal hackers, jdub would be great as the info he poses on the list is bar none..
<sara_> Matthew- I don't know how to dot he read commnet thing, but I'll write a proposal with it and I'll give you a mocup of the tyeps of thigs we were thinking on Saturday
<matthewrevell> nixternal: We may have to prepare to do it without jdub
<nixternal> oh i know..imbrandon is a good php hacker as well, but he is to busy with packaging and what not right now
<matthewrevell> right
<matthewrevell> Let's have a think
<matthewrevell> right, I'm going home
<matthewrevell> laters all
<sara_> ok guys its time for my lunch, I'll send something to the list later
<MitchM> Marketing team still taking design stuff for spreadubuntu?
<adamant1988> I don't think so, but your contributions are always welcome.
<MitchM> which design won?
<sara> I don't think any of them won, we are going to have a meeting the 13th to figure that out
<adamant1988> *shrug*
<MitchM> so then ... designs are still open to be submitted?
<MitchM> or?
<MitchM> is the window a little too small? =_
<MitchM> =)*
<sara> I don't know
<johnlittle> Looks liek you have until the 13th
<johnlittle> er like
<Burgwork> sara, please push for merging SU with the Fridge
<sara> burgwork-sounds good
<sara> msg Burgwork
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-08-11
<johnlittle> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Why_Is_Ubuntu_So_Freakin_Popular
<poningru> cool
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ubuntupolice.png
<Kamping_Kaiser> *rofl*
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats marketing? ;)
<johnlittle> No.its for my ubuntu hating coworker :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehehe
<tonyyarusso> johnlittle: Now you just have to hack the machine to make the whole screen pop to that randomly throughout the day.
<johnlittle> Believe me..if I set his wallpaper he won't know how to change it..sadly
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> tjats a bit sad :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> *thats
<johnlittle> Yeah..don't get me started lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Madpilot> johnlittle, that's a brilliant wallpaper!
<Madpilot> where is the base image from, or is it your own original work?
<johnlittle> V2: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ubuntupolice2.png
<elkbuntu> rofl
<elkbuntu> that's brilliant
<johnlittle> Oh no..its a half-life 2 wallpaper with the obvious mod
<Madpilot> no, "We've come for your desktop" is better
<johnlittle> Yeah I think so too
<elkbuntu> indeed
<elkbuntu> put that up on gnomelook or something. people will  it
<johnlittle> lol
<Madpilot> might be a bit of a copyright issue - what does Valve let you do with their wallpapers?
<johnlittle> No idea. I wasn't really thinking about releasing it..but I'll look
<johnlittle> I grabbed the base off some third party site
<elkbuntu> go buy some lego policemen and do something similar :)
<johnlittle> lol
<johnlittle> those guys are so cool looking though
<elkbuntu> lego policemen are just as cool tyvm
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> johnlittle, grab garrys mod and diy :)
* Kamping_Kaiser hugs elkbuntu , hi tehre :)
* elkbuntu hugs Kamping_Kaiser back.
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> zomg! i cant believe it works! http://alcopop.org/unix/sparc/ actually works!
<elkbuntu> i wonder if they've decided on the tshirt comp thing... i wanna know if i won, or if not, whos design was cooler
<Kamping_Kaiser> and i still have a working sparc!
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry for OT, just excited
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, you put a design in? Good luck! I kicked a few designs around, couldn't get one I liked that wasn't also super-basic, and dropped it... not much time for that contest...
<elkbuntu> http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/tshirtidea.png
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, :)
<johnlittle> I like it
<elkbuntu> so do i. and im not being biased here. i often dont like designs i do
<johnlittle> The logo wrap is a very cool concept..not sure i like the small print on the back..but thats it
<elkbuntu> well, when i submitted it, i pointed out that things could be altered, and the design was GPL'd which means they could mess with it however they want
<johnlittle> What about one with a fake beard glued to the front color...so we can all have that "linux guy" look
<johnlittle> front colar
<elkbuntu> lol
<elkbuntu> that kinda rules out those of us who do not have the hormone predisposition to grow beards anyway
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<johnlittle> Nah..wear it at a foss event and nobody will notice
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, wear it at LCA
<Kamping_Kaiser> and SFD
<elkbuntu> heh
<elkbuntu> i've gotta get a freaking job before i can get to lca :P
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, nice design - I like the re-working of the Ubuntu logo like that
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, no, if you have a job, you wont be goin ;)
<Madpilot> probably too much text on the back, going down too low, though
<elkbuntu> Kamping_Kaiser, if i get a job, i'll make the point that i am unable to work for that week due to something that is booked and paid for
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D
* Kamping_Kaiser is waiting for books to open already - they wont open for another 3 or 4 months
<Kamping_Kaiser> *bookings
<elkbuntu> yeah. but the work im likely to get, the employers are barely goign to know what Linux is, let alone the conf etc
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh
* Kamping_Kaiser doesn thave that issue  - i'm totally unemployable :)
<johnlittle> Heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey bimberi
<bimberi> Kamping_Kaiser: maaaaaate :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> g'daiiy
<bimberi> noice die to die
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntux.org/ubuntu-search/
<Kamping_Kaiser> strewth yer
<johnlittle> anyone here using stumbleupon.com?
<Kamping_Kaiser> a while back iitc
<johnlittle> im getting lots of traffic from them..guess its popular with ubuntu ppl
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats a good thing i suppose
<johnlittle> no complaints..just kind of surprising
<elkbuntu> the counter site is not getting all that much stumbleupon traffic..
<elkbuntu> ~1500 hits for the past 10 or so days
<johnlittle> by hits do you mean visitors?
<elkbuntu> by hits i mean hits
<elkbuntu> http://www.webmarketingnow.com/tips/hitsvsvisits.html
<elkbuntu> johnlittle, do you have something like awstats set up for the video site?
<johnlittle> Yeah..I'm aware of the difference..just never know if the person I'm talking to is :)
<johnlittle> yeah awstats
<elkbuntu> what's your unique visitor count for august so far?
<johnlittle> 847
<johnlittle> up less than a week
<elkbuntu> heh, you havent been dugg or anything then, have you
<johnlittle> nah. and I haven't even linked it from of my other sites. Didn't want to promote much until i get the kinks out
<johnlittle> from any of..
<elkbuntu> Jul 2006: 140031 (latter half only) | Aug 2006	159175
<elkbuntu> that's the sort of traffic you can expect
<poningru> guess this is already known around here
<poningru> but whats ubuntux.org?
<elkbuntu> afaik, another community site
<poningru> sweet
<poningru> but I was asking more along the lines of who runs it etc.
<poningru> how long has it been up...
<elkbuntu> and judging by my search for 'counter', i need to attack them with counter goodness
<poningru> rofl
<johnlittle> I've had my blog linked from CNN..reuters. thats 100k uniques an hour. But ubuntuvideo isn't setup for that kind of traffic. I can make that switch with a call though.
<johnlittle> Not really expecting it
<elkbuntu> yeah. i dont particuarly want to be slashdotted either
* Kamping_Kaiser submits to /.
* elkbuntu cries
<johnlittle> I've been talking to roblimo..if he links UV i hope he warns me
* Kamping_Kaiser giggles
<elkbuntu> UV?
<johnlittle> Ubuntu Video
<elkbuntu> ah, ok then, who's roblimo
<johnlittle> Editor in chief for slashdot/linux.com etc
<johnlittle> he was kind enought to give me permission to use any videos they create
<johnlittle> er enough
<elkbuntu> ahhh.. btw, i coded the counter site to be sparse so as not to suck much bandwidth. last month, even with the digg, it only went through 1.58 GB, already up to 1.05 GB for august
<johnlittle> Yeah I'm lucky in that I don't get charged for overages.
<elkbuntu> slashdot isnt quite as rabid for ubuntu as digg is though
<elkbuntu> what's your host?
<johnlittle> hostingmatters.com
<johnlittle> highly recommended
<elkbuntu> the counter's just on the smallest shitty 3ix.org account.. in truth, tacked on the end of my blog hosting ;)
<johnlittle> That's not their typical policy though. I got a deal. Still, they rarely charge customers for overages
<johnlittle> Hostingmatters has seen me though the CNN linkage, massive DDOS attacks, you name it. they're awesome
<Kamping_Kaiser> johnlittle, do you have issues with logins/sites disapearing etc?
<johnlittle> on my hostingmatters account
<johnlittle> ??
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
<elkbuntu> yeah, a good host is important. so far 3ix saw me through the digging, but im not sure i'll be renewing with them.
<johnlittle> nope
<johnlittle> I switched to hostingmatters something like 4 years ago and it's been great. Up till then it was hit or miss..mostly miss
* Kamping_Kaiser is with dreamhost, they have been 'ok'
<Kamping_Kaiser> but not so great recently
<johnlittle> elkbuntu: You think the big spike is behind you?
<elkbuntu> johnlittle, no idea
<johnlittle> Kamping_Kaiser I honestly can't remember being down..maybe 20 mintues tops in 4 years
<johnlittle> minutes
<elkbuntu> but i have some good hosting from a company here in .au that i'd move the counter to if i needed to
<johnlittle> I can host some images for you if you need it. I push 40-100gigs a month on my main account
<Kamping_Kaiser> johnlittle, impressive
<elkbuntu> the bandwidth isnt the issue
<elkbuntu> the stability is
<johnlittle> gotcha
<johnlittle> Yeah youre doing good on bandwidth with that many uniques
<johnlittle> I still have plenty of room bandwidth wise on ubuntu video so if you want to stash an image or two there for any reason just let me know
<johnlittle> I've got the recent mark shuttleworth interview up if you haven't seen it
<ormiret> johnlittle: is that legal?
<johnlittle> It's streaming from google. Not really possible to tell.
<ormiret> did you upload it to google?
<johnlittle> Nope
<ormiret> you're probably in the clear then, not so sure about google...
<johnlittle> I don't produce videos. I just tap whats out there
<johnlittle> I'm not the least bit worried about my liability. YouTubve and Google is another matter
<johnlittle> So many copyright holders are desperate to get their content out there. it makes it difficult to determine. But the hibs bear the liability for making that determination..and the uploaders
<johnlittle> hibs=hubs
<elkbuntu> johnlittle, you havent got the counter linked on the page anywhere... :P
<johnlittle> i thought i had..i'll fix it
<elkbuntu> choose between: ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net, ubuntucounter.org or ubuntucounter.com  the former two being the preferred :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> bhahahha
<Kamping_Kaiser> ubuntucounter.org is blocked by privoxy
<elkbuntu> the .com is just pointed from the registrar, hence slower
* elkbuntu larts Kamping_Kaiser with a clue-by-four.
<johnlittle> hows that
<johnlittle> geeksophical was already linked
<johnlittle> now gimmie a lower counter number :p
<elkbuntu> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> heheeh
* Kamping_Kaiser changes the stats by making his lappy edgy  -  as i tshould be
<elkbuntu> hehe
<YoussefAssad> Hello
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey
<YoussefAssad> I was just wondering; I joined the team then sent an email, but I got a message that it was awaiting moderation since I wasn't a member. What's up with that?
<YoussefAssad> Oh, hi there Kamping_Kaiser
<ormiret> YoussefAssad: did you sign up the the mailing list as well of just join the team in launchpad?
<YoussefAssad> ormiret: No sir/ma'am!
<YoussefAssad> I don't think so.
<YoussefAssad> erh, let me check that. I'm still on my first coffee this morn
<ormiret> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
<YoussefAssad> er, think I'd better debug this later; flight in a few hours
<YoussefAssad> thanks ormiret
<matthewrevell> Guys, I had to leave part way through the magazine discussion with Sara yesterday. Was a conclusion reached?
<ormiret> matthewrevell: 17:34 < Burgwork> sara, please push for merging SU with the Fridge
<ormiret> 17:36 < sara> burgwork-sounds good
<ormiret> that's the only discussion of it I can see after you left
<matthewrevell> ormiret: thanks
<matthewrevell> Not sure about merging SpreadUbuntu with the Fridge, though
<mdke> no, that's a step too far in my opinion too
<matthewrevell> yes
<matthewrevell> SU *can* have some great value, if done properly
<ormiret> I also noticed talk about a meeting on the 13th when I was reading through scrolback, but thats not in the wiki.
<ormiret> anyone know more?
<digitalmouse> @schedule
<digitalmouse> arg
<digitalmouse> hmm
<digitalmouse> I forgot the command.... um, to answer: not me
<matthewrevell> no
<digitalmouse> hmm... an ubuntu-centric shoutcast radio program that highlights the fridge and other resources, and maybe provides an audio interview, or Q&A session via Skype... hmmm
* digitalmouse ponders
<digitalmouse> I have all the hardware and software too...
* digitalmouse ponders some more
<matthewrevell> Shoutcast? Why not just a podcast?
<MenZa> digitalmouse: no Skype! Use Ekiga!
<matthewrevell> There are a few Ubuntu and related podcasts out there
<digitalmouse> several reasons:  skype is available on all platforms; it's also well known;  if Ekiga or any other voice-over-ip-telephone system is easy to use, then it should be considered... and nothing much prevents me from hosting multiple protocols at once (ok the sound-server might give trouble).... shoutcast, podcast, ubuntucast.. does not matter really... but it would depend on whether to provide a 'live' show or a podcast-like download 
<Madpilot> digitalmouse, there are SIP apps for Windows too
<digitalmouse> true
<digitalmouse> evil.... but true
<Madpilot> less evil that Skype - SIP being an open protocol & all...
<digitalmouse> also true
<digitalmouse> now that skype is owned by.. um eBay I think it is?
<Madpilot> ya
<MenZa> Madpilot: what license is SIP?
<Madpilot> MenZa, not sure, but it's open
<MenZa> Madpilot: alright
<MenZa> alright*
<MenZa> Madpilot: Skype is based on SIP.
<MenZa> SIP is nowhere near as good as Skype's own protocol though.
<MenZa> I get really dodgy sound on Gizmo
<Madpilot> MenZa, but not compatible w/ each other
<MenZa> True.
<matthewrevell> digitalmouse: We should probably have an "Ubuntu friendly podcasts" section on The Fridge
<matthewrevell> sebpayne: Long time no speak
<sebpayne> hey matthewrevell
<digitalmouse> not a bad idea matthew
<digitalmouse> *chirp* *chirp*
<matthewrevell> Don't mice squeek?
<Kamping_Kaiser> matthewrevell, genetically engineered ;)
<matthewrevell> ah
<elkbuntu> well he is a digital mouse, which means it's probably an audio file
<digitalmouse> *squeak* *squeak*
<digitalmouse> there... happy?  :-p
<Kamping_Kaiser> damn, the mouse is coming loose again
<matthewrevell> digitalmouse: Order is restored.
* Kamping_Kaiser gets in there with a screwdriver :P
<matthewrevell> I'm up for Ubuntu membership at Monday's meeting. Not sure I can make it though, which obviously would be a problem.
<mindspin> you could write your statement and get it posted, but it would be nice if you could appear
<mindspin> or give a delay until a further meeting
<matthewrevell> I understand the guys are fairly busy at the moment, so I'd prefer not to delay. I'll work around it somehow. :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> matthewrevell, what times the meeting (GMT)?
<mindspin> !ubuntu-meeting
<matthewrevell> GMT/UTC it's 16:00, which 17:00 British Summer Time. I'll be leaving work at that time.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah bugger, i wont be tehre for you
<matthewrevell> And won't get home for an hour and forty mins after that
<mindspin> so stay in your office ;-)
<mindspin> or go to an internet cafe
<matthewrevell> mindspin: With a 1hr40min commute, I'm not prepared to wait an extra hour at work :)
<matthewrevell> I'll see if I can work from home that day.
<bimberi> matthewrevell: put yourself at the end of the list, they usually start late and it takes quite a while (usually) to even get to the first membership application
<matthewrevell> bimberi: Cheers for the tip.
<mindspin> maybe wecan bid for putting your issue at the end of meeting
<bimberi> matthewrevell: np, it will be at 2am here :(
<matthewrevell> I'd be home by 17:45 UTC-ish. If I went last, would that still be too late, d'you think?
* matthewrevell realises this is not particularly on topic
<Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, thats why i wont be there :/
<matthewrevell> I'll see if I can pull mdke into the meeting :)
<mindspin> timezone is always a bit itchy when it comes to aussies
<mindspin> which is very sad for the marketing-team meetings
<bimberi> matthewrevell: it's really hard to say, it really depends on the topics prior to the memberships.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i need to get someone to update my 'ok times' page on the wiki. those times are totally wrong now :) out of sync by about 5 hours
<bimberi> mindspin: 19:00UTC is actually quite good for me.  Early night, up at 5am to a quiet house for 2 hours
<mindspin> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, wow. your up early
<bimberi> Kamping_Kaiser: i'm usually up at 6am, but can do 5am when needed :)
<mindspin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, that times untinkable for me - i have trouble with 8 am to get to tafe at 9
<bimberi> matthewrevell: reading through the logs of previous CC meetings is good to see how it works - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<bimberi> Kamping_Kaiser: :)
<bimberi> Kamping_Kaiser: it's something that comes with having kids - a more disciplined routine :)
<mindspin> indeed
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe :) *hopes for a never-to-be-disiplned rotine
<Kamping_Kaiser> *sp
<matthewrevell> bimberi: I've sat in on a couple but will check the logs too.
<matthewrevell> ta
<mdke> matthewrevell: that's a tricky time for me too
<mdke> damnit
<bimberi> matthewrevell: np, just don't look at mine, i was crap (as i keep telling people)
<mindspin> all on the road ?
<mindspin> filing up at M5
<bimberi> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> "and indeed it is Mr Seacom, hauling his huge welsh body up the M1, all 4 lanes are blocked, and motorists are advised to take an alternative route - like france"
<mdke> matthewrevell: it's likely to be a long meeting though, as I believe that they would like to discuss the recent forums stuff
<bimberi> mdke: yes, and IRC Network might be lengthy too, although they did discuss it last time
<mdke> I'm going to put wiki licensing on the agenda too
<Kamping_Kaiser> recent forums stuff?
<bimberi> hey lets all help matthewrevell by making up lots of agenda items ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehehe
<bimberi> pad it out - CNN style
<mdke> well, it's been ages since the last meeting
<matthewrevell> Ah, you guys are the best </cheesy American film mode>
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl
<bimberi> lol
<matthewrevell> mdke: At the risk of losing the topic altogether, but forum stuff?
<Kamping_Kaiser> matthewrevell, dont worry, i lost it for you....
<matthewrevell> :)
<elkbuntu> eeeeevening bimberi
<mdke> it's not well documented, there was a bit of a stir on the forums recently with staff changes and so on.
<bimberi> hi elkbuntu :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke, hopefully for the better. *ages since i was involved in the forums in any way, so dont know much about it anymore*
<mdke> well, that's part of the dispute.
<mdke> it seems to have been handled rather badly
<Kamping_Kaiser> never a good thing unfortunately... well just have to see how it goes
<matthewrevell> We need to create a marketing super-hero to help out in situations such as that
* Kamping_Kaiser sticks an M on matthewrevell s shirt, go supermarkeer, spread the word!
<elkbuntu> yeah, we need a chief whip
<matthewrevell> Said super-hero would spread love, equality, integrity, teamwork ... sorry, I digress.
<mindspin> nope
<mdke> matthewrevell: "forums" = ubuntuforums.org, not marketing team related
<matthewrevell> mdke: Sorry, yes, I'm being a fool.
<mdke> but yeah, superhero needed anyway
<mindspin> nonsense
<elkbuntu> matthewrevell, yes, stop now, for risk of being tagged as the annoying one's twin
<mindspin> collectivity shuld be our drive
* mindspin waving a red flag .... ;-)
<elkbuntu> mindspin, i dont know about in other governments, but the australian government has 'chief whip' positions
<mdke> I think we're talking at cross purposes
<mindspin> hehe
<elkbuntu> where the chief whip is literally as the name suggest, he or she literally keeps everyone working together and moving forward
<mdke> anyway, Canonical just appointed a community "chief whip"
<mindspin> deep in my heart I#m still an anarchist, like when I was 16
<mdke> or "cat herder" in mpt's words
<bimberi> lol, that's what i feel matthewrevell tries to do here ;)
<elkbuntu> mdke, rofl, the only way to herd cats is to use incentives...
<mindspin> to be honest, it looks a bit like jenda 2 months ago ....
<elkbuntu> there's no problem having a team whip, the chief whip cannot see into the workings of all teams
* mdke doesn't understand whether mindspin is talking about the same thing that he was talking about 
<mindspin> so we need job-titles for every team member and the cats will be silenced
<mindspin> sorry g2g
<elkbuntu> mindspin, not really, the cats will then turn into green-eyed-monsters if -everyone- gets a title, however having someone to keep track of things is a good idea, so there's no doubling up of effort
<elkbuntu> we dont want multiple Fridge projects, or 10 clones of the surveys
<matthewrevell> mindspin: Are we getting into conspiracy theory here?
* digitalmouse realizes his 'superhero underwear' is not clean, so therefore does not offer to be 'marketing superhero'
<digitalmouse> I'm a programmer deep down, anyway :-p
<digitalmouse> and moonlights as a desktop-publisherer/graphic-designer/shoutcast radio host
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<digitalmouse> now with fewer calories!
* Kamping_Kaiser tries to not talk - i only seem to be OT in here
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<digitalmouse> actually I tend to hang out here because you marketing-types come up with ideas us programmer-types have to implement... so this way I get a 'heads-up' when something useful comes along that I could contribute to
<Kamping_Kaiser> digitalmouse, what do you program in?
* Kamping_Kaiser was starting to learn python untill tafe started
<elkbuntu> matthewrevell, ping
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: yo
<elkbuntu> re: your mail... thats sort of what we want to find out with the surveys :P
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: I'm not sure I agree (altho' am willing to be persuaded). Yeah, on the surface it looks similar, but with the surveys we're looking for something approaching empirical data. I'm looking for people's exisitng feelings on the matter.
<matthewrevell> So, rather than looking at the evidence, I wanna know what people think is the case.
<matthewrevell> It'll be interesting to have something to compare against.
<elkbuntu> ah ok, i get you now
<matthewrevell> Plus, I'm thinking around the idea of Ubuntu as benign cult.
<matthewrevell> I suppose I'm really asking "Why did you come into the Ubuntu community?" but sometimes it seems to be easier to get people to think in the third person :)
<elkbuntu> yeah.. although, a forum post would only end up a flame war if you tried to ask there
<elkbuntu> you should have asked expressly for private responses, so it eliminates momentary bias or offense, but stated that the responses will be published later, and by responding they are giving permission for this unless they explicitly state otherwise
<elkbuntu> strong disagreement with previous theories can kill genuine reasoning quicker than a sniper shot to the head
<matthewrevell> Not sure where the forums come into this.
<elkbuntu> a side thought
<matthewrevell> ah
<elkbuntu> put the call out on sounder also, so you're not just getting marketeers, but try keep responses hidden until publication
<matthewrevell> I don't think there'll be a problem with people replying to the -marketing list, if that's what they want to do.
<matthewrevell> Other than the risk of some more blue-sky thinking :)
<elkbuntu> im basing the potential to spoil responses from the various 'why did you stop using windows' forum threads, and how ugly they often get
<matthewrevell> I *hope* that we have slightly less confrontational people on the -marketing list. Let's see how it goes :)
<matthewrevell> I'll post to -sounder too.
<Kamping_Kaiser> matthewrevell, its people joining to have their say thats the problem, not the existing crew
<matthewrevell> Kamping_Kaiser: Maybe there's a tendency that I haven't noticed, then.
<matthewrevell> I'll ask specifically for private responses on -sounder :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> herers a good thing to market ubuntu to satanists : my ubuntu-users email is 666 unread
<matthewrevell> gotta go
<mindspin> elkbuntu ping
<elkbuntu> yep?
<mindspin> you are sure that you'll get matthewrevell#s question answered by the ubuntu counter?
<mindspin> the counter is a more quantyfied method wether matthew's question is a more qualitative kinda research
<elkbuntu> the counter? heck no, that's nothign to do with either surveys or his call for theories
<mindspin> ahh misread you, you were speaking of surveys
<elkbuntu> the surveys are goign to be both qualitative and quantitative anyway
<elkbuntu> i initially misunderstood matt's aim too
<mindspin> I was just reading what happened here while I was away
<elkbuntu> i figured
<elkbuntu> i think he's got a good idea too. getting in-depth opinion, rather than just brief opinion is a worthy cause and could be very useful as well
<mindspin> I#m not really sure what it will be good for beside enlightment...
<mindspin> or better say empiric knowledge
<elkbuntu> psychological research ;)
<mindspin> cultural anthropoligian far more in my eyes
<mindspin> hey and that is what I did at University ;-)
<elkbuntu> i've never taken psychology, but i should have.. im somewhat of a natural
<mindspin> "80 % of the survey showed, that their main reason for using ubuntu is the unability to install debian"
<mindspin> ;-)
<elkbuntu> if that's what we get, then the debian people will benefit. the survey results are not going to be useful to only ubuntu, but the whole OS community
<mindspin> "while 8 % are attracted by godd looking smart wealthy geeks from south africa"
<mindspin> argh I forgot to switch off "sarcasm mode"
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl
<mindspin> kill -9 sarcasmd
<elkbuntu> its like "71% of people like ubuntu because of <blah>"... mandriva dev #1: "do we do that", mandriva dev 2: "nope..", mandriva dev #1: "hmm, maybe we should"
<digitalmouse> Kamping_Kaiser:  mostly PHP/MySQL with a sprinkle of AJAX for flavor
<elkbuntu> meanwhile, the 'potential users' part is going to be relevent to every single OS wanting to bring in the unwashed masses
<mindspin> If ubuntu will succeed we we'll have to deal with many kinds of users and very diifferent reasons for their choice
<Kamping_Kaiser> digitalmouse, ah cool,
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'web stuff' ;)
<mindspin> like (politeness of) community, usability, easyness, security and so on...
<elkbuntu> mindspin, getting a proper and documented expression of that is important. we cant just guess/
<digitalmouse> and I've dabbled with everything from TRS80 BASIC and Commodore BASIC, to C, Pascal, eevviill FORTRAN, Perl and SmallTALK...
<mindspin> we can and we can try to get scales and surveys to help us guessing
<mindspin> both is relevant
<mindspin> imho
<Kamping_Kaiser> digitalmouse, :)
<digitalmouse> whatever took my interest in the last 30+ years...
<elkbuntu> yep. guided guessing is far better than blind guessing ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> anyway, leaving this chan for a moment or 4
<digitalmouse> too bad blind dates can't learn from the same wisdom
<elkbuntu> rofl
<mindspin> isthere a discussion area in the survey project or should comments inserted in the wiki?
<elkbuntu> there's a Discussion section at the bottom of the wiki page if that's what you're asking
<mindspin> Feel free to dig your hands into the wiki page and list off question
<mindspin> ideas.
<mindspin> just read your reply
<elkbuntu> ;)
<mindspin> the harder part of the survey is interpretation
<mindspin> I'll read the questionaire a bit more in depth and will try to add some comments (if neccessar immho)
<elkbuntu> yep :)
<elkbuntu> anyway afk a few
<mindspin> metoo
<matthewrevell> yesterday's logs suggest a meeting on 13th for this team
<matthewrevell> Can anyone confirm?
<mindspin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings?highlight=%28meeting%29
<mindspin> so there is no meeting on agenda
<matthewrevell> Yeah, I see that :)
<matthewrevell> But sara seemed to think there was one, according to the logs
<mindspin> who said that there is ameeting?
<mindspin> coud be a magazine meeting
<matthewrevell> She was talking about SpreadUbuntu at the moment, so I'm not sure.
<matthewrevell> s/at the moment/at that moment
<mdke> well, nothing on the mailing list or wiki, so, no meeting
<matthewrevell> yeah, that's what I thought,but I'd feared factionalism had set in :-D
<mindspin> cool down matt
<mdke> meh. /me really has to stop nick highlighting on "matt", nowadays
<mindspin> hehe
<mdke> every damn channel I'm in has like 10 matts
<mindspin> the curse of a popular name
<ormiret> At the last meeting Jenda said he would be back around the 13th, that might be where the date came from
<ormiret> just found the actual minuted from the last meeting and they do include the next meeting as being the 13th
* digitalmouse exit's stage left... for food
<ormiret> (the link on /Minuts is wrong)
<matthewrevell> mindspin: I wasn't serious :)
<nixternal> mornin'
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey nix
<Kamping_Kaiser> * nixternal
<nixternal> well hello there
<MitchM> greetings all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey MitchM
<nixternal> hello
<Kamping_Kaiser> how are we all thismorning?
<MitchM> oh; a tid bit hungry myself
<matthewrevell> hey hey
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey matthewrevell
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, come and say hi :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lets have 5 people active at once ;)
<elkbuntu> wheee
<elkbuntu> you mean semi-active
<MitchM> *chuckles*
<Kamping_Kaiser> <g>
* Kamping_Kaiser hugs elkbuntu  matthewrevell MitchM nixternal 
<MitchM> So I'm a new member of the ubuntu-marketing team; joined up on launchpad after I did some reading.
<MitchM> seems like there are some good goals set out for us
* MitchM hugs kamping_kaiser back
<Kamping_Kaiser> :) yay
<MitchM> =P
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<MitchM> Looks like everyone still needs a little coffee this morning...
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<matthewrevell> MitchM: This is the end of my working day :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> this place works in spurts.
<elkbuntu> not morening for all of us
<elkbuntu> morning*
<MitchM> well good point...
<MitchM> but coffee is good anytime.
<Kamping_Kaiser> its morning in a very technically accurate way here atm
<Kamping_Kaiser> 1:18
<matthewrevell> Hey guys, do you have experience of the marketing projects of other FOSS projects?
<MitchM> *chuckle*
<Kamping_Kaiser> matthewrevell, only observing, never partaking
<Kamping_Kaiser> (lol, i just tried to use a touchpad with my thumb, then realised this is a desktop)
* MitchM pats kamping_kaiser on the shoulder... "its ok"
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> debian etch beta 3 is out
* Kamping_Kaiser is looking at debian again
* MitchM pokes kamping_kaiser 's eyes out.
<MitchM> stop that sillyness :-P
* Kamping_Kaiser thanks goodness for the brltty support in the installer ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<MitchM> haha
<elkbuntu> lol
<MitchM> good 1 =)
* Kamping_Kaiser is torn now - to debian or not to debian. :/ its hard :/
<MitchM> Ubuntu is debian
<MitchM> stick with simplicity ^.^
<MitchM> stay ubuntu
<MitchM> or better yet; Kubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> ubuntu != debian, a lot of custom patches are applied
<elkbuntu> debian is the cake. ubuntu is the cake with frosting and decorations
<MitchM> for all intensive purposes
<MitchM> haha
<Kamping_Kaiser> its the simplicity that i'm looking at escaping - i also want to know whats happening in debian land.
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, i'm a sysadmin....
<Kamping_Kaiser> i use 16 bit colour ;)
<MitchM> then simplicity is your _policy_
<elkbuntu> i wasnt saying it for your benefit, Kamping_Kaiser
<MitchM> =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> MitchM, so is power (system wise, not human interaction/bofh wise) :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol elkbuntu
<MitchM> absolute power corrupts absolutely
<elkbuntu> that's a pre-requisite for being a sysadmin
<Kamping_Kaiser> any level of power does  :( *holds self up as example*
<MitchM> lol
<MitchM> who isnt a sysadmin these days?
* MitchM gumbles at dbmail
<Kamping_Kaiser> MitchM, dont get me started....
<MitchM> =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<MitchM> so whats new on the ubuntu-marketing project list
<MitchM> I know there is a metting the 13th for spreadubuntu
<MitchM> and voting for the design winner
<MitchM> but i only know that because I'm psychic; any other roles/things that need to be done in the near future?
<matthewrevell> I'm still confused about this 13th meeting. No one that has been active on the list or on this channel over the past few weeks seems to know of it
<matthewrevell> PLus, I still think it's really far to soon to talk about design for SU, when we haven't really worked out what it's for :)
<MitchM> *chuckles*
<MitchM> its for... "Spreading Ubuntu"?
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<matthewrevell> MitchM: To answer your questio, though, have a look at the mailing list and a post titled "To do" from yesterday.
<MitchM> could you perchance send me a link to the mailing list?
<matthewrevell> sure
<matthewrevell> http://lists.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-marketing
<poningru> arr
<MitchM> arr
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-08-12
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ubuntupolice5.png
<ompaul> johnlittle, not very much in the spirit of Ubuntu but .... very very funny
* ompaul is laughing a minute later
<johnlittle> Yeah I know it's not PC :)
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ubuntumktg7.png
<johnlittle> cleaned up a bit
<ompaul> still not human enough :-)
<ompaul> very very funny
* ompaul has a huge grin on his face
<ompaul> "we have come to humanise your desktop"
<ompaul> hmmm
<ompaul> ergo the protective clothing
<johnlittle> Hunanize..or else
<ompaul> ohh there is an copywriter here
<johnlittle> Humanize
<ompaul> no it is a "public service"
<johnlittle> lol
<ompaul> so we heard about the desktop, we are here to help ... and then picture two is a lappy on a tropical beach?
<johnlittle> if i could get bill gates cowering in the center,.,,
<ompaul> or we heard about the software
<ompaul> no - you can't dis microsoft it is not about them - it is not about steve jobs it is about the people and their access to great technology
<ompaul> :-)
<ompaul> it is brilliant, it is very 1984, grey and every sifi movie about a brave new tech future, then picture two is the consquence of the release
<ompaul> johnlittle, ^^ what do you think of that?
<johnlittle> Yeah it is very 1984..actually you can find some riot gear cops use now thats pretty close to that.
<johnlittle> You could craft a pretty cool anti-drm campaign with images like this
<ompaul> lets not take it too far
<ompaul> well that is another battle, and I think the hazmat suits tell that story very well, here we are talking to the event known as Linux for Human Beings
<ompaul> (and servers as one poster said)
<ompaul> drm also has a fantastic catch phase, Defective By Desing
<ompaul> Design even
<johnlittle> yep
<ompaul> this is like the apple 1984 advert
<ompaul> all the grey computing
<ompaul> then there was apple
<ompaul> now we are taking the shine off the box design (but you have to hand it do Jobs he is - all style, like kier sosa
<johnlittle> how about some guy being hauled of in handcuffs...with a Microsoft Genuine Advantage logo :)
<ompaul> kaizer sosa even
<johnlittle> of=off
<ompaul> no
<ompaul> rule 1 of marketing never mention the opposition
<johnlittle> I'm not talking about something I'd produce..just a joke
<ompaul> I actually see a real opportunity there with that picture
<johnlittle> Yeah but belongs to Valve. Cant use if for marketing
<ompaul> ahh
<ompaul> you can't own ideas ;-)
<johnlittle> Yeah the concept could be used if someone could create similar artwork
* ompaul looks for some dart vader style images for the cops 
<ompaul> woops 6.5 hours left until I have to get up
<ompaul> hmm
<johnlittle> wow thats two nights worth of sleep for me
<johnlittle> I'd go to bed if i were you
<ompaul> I will have to read a stallman essay before I go :-)
<ompaul> save me from all the "w" words used in this channel ;-)
<ompaul> cheers
<johnlittle> nite
<johnlittle> rich is stuck in a revolving door
<nixternal> sorry for the floods earlier, as it seems my router was nailed...
<johnlittle> yeah you made tons of friends..in many channels :)
<nixternal> i can tell
<nixternal> thanks to nalioth, a Freenode staffer for at least sparing a couple of channels some pain
<johnlittle> I just told people you were executing the worst DDOS attack ever
<nixternal> i was the blunt of an attack
<johnlittle> lol
<johnlittle> check this out: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ss/auguststyle.png
<nixternal> i was watching that on another system while i was being killed
<johnlittle> the ss?
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> i was showing of your 2 sites to family
<nixternal> that looks horrible
<nixternal> who bent your screen?
<johnlittle> hehe
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> you are on to something with that
<johnlittle> I really need to spend some time on my other site this weekend. there so much going on
<johnlittle> im kind of burnt out
<nixternal> ya, that isn't hard to do with websites
<johnlittle> Yep..the video on is easy. I have posts stacked up until the 24th
<johnlittle> video one
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: very cool, but lose the winamp/xmms crap and make the eyes glow orange
<nixternal> i am seriously thinking of whiping my one Kubuntu setup and throwing Ubuntu on it, however I have edgy running for testing stuff, but I have an itchy trigger finger that wants an Ubuntu setup to play with
<nixternal> especially with the aix stuff
<johnlittle> Yeah the orange eyes would be cool...its going to have to wait tho
<johnlittle> Tired of that windows 3.1 DE?
<adamant1988> uhm?
<johnlittle> ;)
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> you know what, in a way i am
<nixternal> however, gnome nor kde look much different from say 5 years ago
<johnlittle> walk into the light rich
<nixternal> joey!!!
<nixternal> whats up bud
<Rinchen> Hiya Nix
<Rinchen> Just recoupering from the verbally abusive week :-)
<nixternal>  gotta love those ;)
<Rinchen> Yeah, I have a winner for a client these days.
<nixternal> i get those every now and then
<Rinchen> I've been so tied up with work and then staffing Defcon that I haven't had much of a chance to do much around here lately.
<Rinchen> I did buy my 2.5 year old his first kite though tonight. :-)
<nixternal> cool ;)
<nixternal> i remember that age ;)
<nixternal> 7.5 years ago
<nixternal> man time flies
<Rinchen> Yeah. Related topic: I need to hit up a few more areas with the loco and then ramp up for a joint software freedom day and Eft release party.  There is talk on our list of doing a small debian party as well although I don't think it will be well attended.
<nixternal> freedom day is right around the corner
<nixternal> i am hoping my cd's are here for that
<nixternal> i just offloaded 100 today for an install fest put on by....
<nixternal> Microsoft of  all people
<nixternal> but i got the guy to distribute Ubuntu & Kubuntu CDs instead of "Old" Win98 and ME CDs that microsoft gives..this install fest is to create systems for "not-for-profit" orgs that do stuff like help older people find jobs and what not
<nixternal> it is good, microsoft shipping him 500 computers with win98 and winme discs, and he is gonna put ubuntu and kubuntu on them, and then he is going to hand them out for me
<Rinchen> wow, score
<Rinchen> good job
<Rinchen> makes me feel inadequate
<Rinchen> oops...being paged by wifey to go watch stargate
<Rinchen> cheers
<nixternal> heh, i ran into him looking at the Hacking Ubuntu book at the bookstore
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> hehe
* nixternal breaks down and installs Ubuntu
<Madpilot> nixternal, what had you been inflicting on yourself?
<nixternal> Kubuntu ;)
<nixternal> i always will though
<nixternal> i just wanted to play around with Gnome a little bit
* johnlittle reports nix for playing with a gnome
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> please don't as i will never hear the end of it
* elkbuntu points to ubuntulog
<adamant1988> muahahahah
<adamant1988> nixternal played with a gnome
<adamant1988> ok, it wasn't that funny, I'm going to sleep now
<nixternal> jeesh, so much for a secret
<johnlittle> I predict you won't go back to KDE
<nixternal> Sysinfo for 'MasTequila': Linux 2.6.15-26-k7 running KDE 3.5.4, CPU: AMD Athlon XP 2000+ at 1667 MHz (3338 bogomips), HD: 47/110GB, RAM: 1037/1264MB, 114 proc's, 2.4d up
<nixternal> im not leaving ;)
<johnlittle> wha?
<nixternal> plus that machine is a dual boot, and kubuntu is the main on it ;)
<johnlittle> cold feet?
<nixternal> im a qt kinda guy
<johnlittle> :|
<johnlittle> I'll drop by and setup  Gnome for you..kind of a Stright Eye for the QT Guy kid of thing
<johnlittle> kid=kind
<nixternal> haha really funny
<johnlittle> damn i can't type
<Madpilot> "Straight Eye for the QT Guy" - he
<Madpilot> heh, even - can't type either ;)
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> or should have i done,    lo
<johnlittle> I need some quality time with Mavis Bacon
<nixternal> might as well match
<nixternal> mavis can't keep up with me
<nixternal> i had her max out
<nixternal> she won't count anything over 150wpm
<johnlittle> I wonder what she's doin now
<nixternal> i remember i had to take a typing course in 1996 in college while i was in the navy..and to ace the course you had to hit 60wpm, my first day average was 130+
<johnlittle> 60wpm...preschoolers can do that now
<nixternal> and the teacher still made me take the stupid class
<nixternal> that was in 1996
<nixternal> when vcr's where the item
<johnlittle> ah the olden days ;)
<nixternal> 10 years ago
<nixternal> don't say olden, im starting to feel "my age"
<johnlittle> I think I'm older than you..
<nixternal> probably are you old fart
<johnlittle> ouch..a guy at t-mobile said that to me..i was looking at a sidekick and he said "Guys your age dont buy those"
<nixternal> rofl
<nixternal> i went and bought 4 boxes of romeo y juliet cigars today, and got carded
<johnlittle> Luckily i was able to shoot back "Most guys my age aren't getting 200 txt messages a day from 22 year old coeds"
<johnlittle> carded?
<nixternal> im like, how many people under 18 are smoking cigars?  ok if they are, how many of them are dropping $2k on cigars?
<nixternal> i got rid of my sidekick, blackberry, and cell phone
<johnlittle> All this volunteer work has been good to you
<nixternal> i do not give out my phone number, except to family, otherwise they can email me
<nixternal> actually, the first box was a gift, so i actually dropped 1500
<nixternal> nothing like fine cigars
<johnlittle> I'm in the cancer biz so....well enjoy those cigars ;)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> at least they aren't clinton cohibas
<johnlittle> Oh the jokes...
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> cohibas aren't made anymore..no more cuban cigars
<nixternal> that stinks
<nixternal> dominican and us cigars are now #1
<johnlittle> I used to smoke cigars now and then. Spending time in a head and neck cancer clinic kind of eliminated my craving
<nixternal> rofl, i bet it would...i have always enjoyed a good cigar, i quit smoking more then 2 years ago..so a good cigar every now and then won't kill me
<johnlittle> Probably not. I just met too many folks with half a face.
<johnlittle> I know I could smoke one now and then and it'd probably be ok but I just can't kick those images when I get near a cigar lol
<Madpilot> nixternal, there's still Cuban cigars made - all the tourist shops here sell them to American tourists ;)
<nixternal> and when they go bye bye, that will be it, for cohiba
<nixternal> since castro quit smoking, he closed down his entities, one being cohiba
<johnlittle> is there more than one sysinfo plugin for xchat?
<Burgundavia> nixternal: according to wikipedia they are still made, as for 2006
<nixternal> ya, they still have productions, but very limited...very very limited, until they run out of their stock type limited...i get cigar afficianado magazine and that is all they have been about for the past year now
<nixternal> market this http://buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/images/
<nixternal> sure looks purdy
<mindspin> good mornig :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> nixternal, what is it/they
<johnlittle> are u playing with gnomes?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> glx-compiz
<nixternal> set everything to 25% opaque in the one, and then the scaling/pinning to desktop
<johnlittle> thinking about running that fulltime
<nixternal> no
<nixternal> i want to get it setup on my kubuntu box for fun
<mindspin> nixternal: will it work, afaik its kinda "tricky"
<nixternal> it works
<johnlittle> im installing kde :)
<nixternal> best thing i have heard you say yet ;)
<johnlittle> im pretty sure that im just waisting an hour of my life but why not
<nixternal> boo
<johnlittle> we'll see
<johnlittle> is kde default on any big distros these days?
<johnlittle> brb
<johnlittle> it still feels all clobbered together to me
<nixternal> you say that now
<Madpilot> johnlittle, it's KDE, you've got to spell it "klobbered"
<johnlittle> ahaha
<nixternal> hardy har har
<johnlittle> 1993 drop shadows on menu titles...um yeah
<johnlittle> ok..I tried..but I gotta switch back now :)
<johnlittle> KDE could be really good if the GNOME guys could work on it
<johnlittle> ;)
<Madpilot> thankfully, GNOME already exists :)
<johnlittle> wow
<johnlittle> better :)
<nixternal> bullpoop
<johnlittle> It's odd. Gnome hasn't changed much in 5 years but it's so much more polished and consistent..KDE still feels like a system playing catchup to a decade old version of windows to me
<nixternal> thats what you get when you play with default
<nixternal> the levels of theming in kde far exceed anything gnome could ever imagine ;)
<nixternal> for instance..compare gnome-look to kde-look...ummm you get the point there
<johnlittle> yeah but how much lipstick can you put on a pig?
<johnlittle> i might have to try xfce now
<nixternal> kde 3.5.3 and 3.5.4 are far from pigs
<nixternal> install edgy knot1, update all the way...and boot...gnome can't touch it from power on to desktop
<nixternal> reboot == 31 seconds from desktop to desktop
<Madpilot> XFCE is kind of cool, I played with Xubuntu LiveCDs a lot during Dapper testing
<nixternal> ya it is
<johnlittle> I've always liked it
<nixternal> i have it installed on my lappy
<nixternal> however, it isn't much faster if you ask me
<nixternal> but then again, that could be my lappy
<johnlittle> I think it's getting bloated (comparitively)
<nixternal> fluxbuntu might be cool if they get it out soon
<johnlittle> yeah i think so
<johnlittle> nubuntu looks like fun..i'd get in trouble but..
<Madpilot> Flubuntu? Bird Flubuntu?
<johnlittle> lol
<nixternal> haha
<Madpilot> need sleep - night, all
<johnlittle> me like
<jenda> Hello Marketeers.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey jenda
<jenda> ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<elkbuntu> hello jenda :)
<johnlittle> just did a fresh install with the new release...slick'
<nixternal> i just did a fresh install of Kubuntu Edgy Eft Knot1 Pre and just up'd everything..talk about nice.. ;)
<nixternal> got rid of that ubuntu/xgl install, however that is some sweet eye-candy
<johnlittle> :-/
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-08-13
<poningru> http://techanchor.blogspot.com/2006/08/ubuntu-vs-debian-what-canonical-doesnt.html
<johnlittle> read that last night
<johnlittle> Theres a lot of silly backlash out there
<poningru> hehe yeah
* poningru especially likes the fact that he thinks our forums are official
<poningru> or the fact that this is exactly what linux needs to offer the 7 years mature mind of the 'consumer', a choclate covered spinach.
<nixternal> what did i miss you guys?
<johnlittle> nothing..all the actions on the ML :)
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> you leave that man alone ;)
<johnlittle> I'm being quiet
<johnlittle> installed 6.0.6.1 and did bios updates for smp..ive been busy
<johnlittle> bios updates could be easier..
<Burgundavia> nixternal: ah, crap, we need to get UWN out today
<Burgundavia> just remembered
<nixternal> getting ready to work on it...it is all good ;)
<nixternal> kontact tells me i have to work on it every saturday ;)
<nixternal> we have a 12+ hour window Burgundavia, and i plan on spending the next few hours after i eat on it
<nixternal> i am going to work local, so if you want to make edits, go for it
<Burgundavia> ok, I am going to write a bit on dapper changes
<nixternal> sweet
<nixternal> i appreciate that
<nixternal> i will cover edgy changes then
<nixternal> hey Burgundavia, what do you think of adding a screenshot or 2 for the UWN wiki page?  and then when we send it out to news-list we can just link to the images
<nixternal> you know what..somebody said something to me about the layout as well..that they didn't like it..and i can't remember who it was, and what they didn't like..i will scour my log and see
<Burgundavia> ok, sounds good
<Burgundavia> nixternal: finished section on soc. Need a feature of the week
<nixternal> i did a Kubuntu one last week, maybe an Edubuntu feature or a Xubuntu feature so we don't leave them out
<Burgundavia> hmm, got any smart ideas?
<nixternal> not for Xubuntu i don't...Edubuntu has so much stuff to choose from
<nixternal> you know what..is laser around?
<Burgundavia> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15476 <-- giant howling conspiracy theory
<nixternal> omg i hate that guy
<nixternal> food time
<poningru> Burgundavia: hehe too slow
<poningru> posted that in marketing like half an hour ago
<poningru> err this is marketing...
<nixternal> rofl
<nixternal> poningru: we weren't around
<nixternal> ok, food for real this time
<poningru> hehe cya
<poningru> uwn?
<nixternal>  Anonymous said...
<nixternal>     I like the shiny design, I like the community forums, but most of all I like the fact my grandmother can install it.
<Burgundavia> ubuntu weekly news
<nixternal> pwnd
<poningru> ah
<Burgundavia> that is great quote
<Burgundavia> we should lead with that this week
<nixternal> hey Burgundavia, it would be great to link that in the "Press" section, and then with that quote below it ;)
<Burgundavia> I want to lead with it, dammit
<nixternal> however, i am sure someone will complain because that "wasn't professional"
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> do it
<nixternal> we run the UWN, we can do what we want ;)
* poningru wants to help out, let me know if you need any
<nixternal> now if we could get some of the people in #ubuntu-marketing to get off their lazyboys, and get back on the computer and start helpin' ;)
<nixternal> heh, poningru, there you go ;)
<Burgundavia> poningru: currently laserjock is adding his section on the MOTU school, then I am going to be adding that quote
<nixternal> im gonna go eat my dijorno
<nixternal> b4rb
<Burgundavia> poningru: if you wouldn't mind proofing it, that would be great
<poningru> yep
<poningru> just let me know
<Burgundavia> I hoping to get people to have regular "beats"
<Burgundavia> newspaper like
<poningru> ooh /me could cover mozilla
<Burgundavia> mozilla?
<poningru> yeah mofo
<poningru> the foundation/corp
<Burgundavia> not really ubuntu specific
<poningru> yeah...
<poningru> what did you have in mind?
<Burgundavia> something ubuntu specific
<poningru> like what kinda fields?
<Burgundavia> if it happened in the ubuntu community, we want to hear about it
<poningru> ah gotcha
<Burgundavia> poningru: can you proofread now poningru?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue9
* poningru reads
<poningru> quick question shouldnt we have a wink or a sarcasm tag for the jokosher app comment
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> feel free to make any edits you want
<poningru> but which one? wink seems not so 'professional' but then again this is a community paper... guide me por favor
<Burgundavia> wink works
<Burgundavia> you will not be the last person to proof it
<poningru> cool
<poningru> everything looks good
<Burgundavia> poningru: what is your real name?
<Burgundavia> should we officially make this a marketing team project and not a documentation team one?
<poningru> hmm
* poningru would like it to be a marketing team project
<Burgundavia> hey mdke
* poningru is also known as Eldo Varghese
<Burgundavia> mdke_: rather
<poningru> hehe
<nixternal> ok, Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter == The Communities "Week in Review"...that way there everything the devs have done, the doc team has done, marketing team, or any other team has done since last saturday, goes into the UWN ;)
<Burgundavia> nixternal: I just need to add bug stats. Anything else?
<nixternal> i cheat bug stats...i just grab the list on the left hand side of /+bugs on lp
<nixternal> copy and paste, remove the "assigned to me" and wallah
<nixternal> you did the whole UWN already?
<Burgundavia> I think we are pretty much done
<nixternal> did you cover the Kubuntu Meeting?
<nixternal> "This is the first of what is likely to be several security and updates rollups"
<nixternal> that is from the 6.06 point release section
<Burgundavia> we need add teh various upcoming meetings
<Burgundavia> you want to do that?
<nixternal> i can sure
<nixternal> we need to add this weeks meetings as well
<Burgundavia> should we mention the Ubuntu counter project?
<poningru> well there is uv or something
<Burgundavia> uv?
<poningru> ubuntu video
<poningru> and there is also ubuntux
<poningru> .org
<poningru> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/
<Burgundavia> random pages are nice, but why should I mention them?
<Burgundavia> uv and the counter I guess we shoudl mention
<poningru> well the counter project...
<poningru> I was just throwing couple of community sites around
<Burgundavia> yep
<poningru> err attempting community sites
<Burgundavia> are you editing currently?
<Burgundavia> we need to do this via some collaborative method next time
<poningru> oh no stopped editing a while ago
<Burgundavia> ok, I will add the community websites
<Burgundavia> who runs the counter again?
<nixternal> Burgundavia: i think this current layout could be posted on the fridge and the fridge only almost...it is so precise and much smaller now
<nixternal> you know a good place to post the UWN to, is like a blog, and have it goto the different planet.*
<nixternal> then everyone would read the damn thing ;)
<Burgundavia> it is key it goes to the mailng list
<Burgundavia> it will not get picked up by lwn otherwsie
<nixternal> of course
<Burgundavia> having a weekly news seperate from teh fridge is a good thing
<Burgundavia> regardless, are we ready for a final proof?
<poningru> Burgundavia: elkubuntu iirc
<poningru> hold on let me ask
<Burgundavia> poningru: I got it
<poningru> ok cool
<rjian> Hello Burgundavia can u help me about Gp keys?
<nixternal> gpg?
<Burgundavia> rjian: sure, but right now I need to get uwn out
<nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<rjian> actually is just the validation ive already receive the email about the key confirmation what will i do next?
<poningru> anyreason for not taking this to #ubuntu?
<poningru> rjian: I can help you out
<rjian> poningru: wat will i do next?
<poningru> ->#ubuntu
<Burgundavia> nixternal: ok, what next?
<nixternal> im readin' ;)
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> are you going to ToC the top?
<Burgundavia> yep, once we finish
<nixternal> how about a "members" section where people who made some type of membership this week could be noticed, like MOTU's, Dev's, Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu/Xubuntu memberships and what not?
<nixternal> maybe in future releases
<Burgundavia> yep, add that to the "future ideas" page
<nixternal> good idea ;)
<Burgundavia> create a 10 and note it there
<nixternal> there isn't a way really in moinmoin to make a quote stand out, like <blockquote">
<nixternal> actually doesn't matter, since the UWN is designed for email anyways..never mind that one...belay my last
<Burgundavia> yep
<nixternal> there is an Upcoming NUN Class this week, that we could mention
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<nixternal> should i put it after the feature of the week?
<nixternal> actually, let me find out what is up with that...they have been contemplating everything this week
<nixternal> Burgundavia: i am in edit mode for 2 minutes
<Burgundavia> ok, no worries
<nixternal> should i put the NUN class at the end, or is there some place better for it
<Burgundavia> with the other education stuff
<nixternal> ya, exactly where i put it
<nixternal> one more second
* poningru proofs
<nixternal> not yet
<poningru> k
<nixternal> it is saving
<nixternal> i added a ToC at the top
<nixternal> ok done
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> hey Burgundavia, you want me to add the upcoming meetings?
<Burgundavia> yep
<nixternal> k, doing it now, so i have it open
<poningru> let me know when you are done couple of things need to be fixed, quotes etc.
<poningru> nixternal
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> working on bug day info right now
<nixternal> trying to see if it is every week, or every other week
<nixternal> ok poningru, i am done
<nixternal> work your magic
<poningru> k
<poningru> how do I <br> in wiki?
<Burgundavia> [[br] ] 
<Burgundavia> remember it is going out as text
<poningru> oh nm then
<poningru> guys I finished half way through
<poningru> look through mine and see if they sound ok from a can,uk,aus prespective
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BR
<nixternal> arg
<nixternal> nm that
<nixternal> i tried [[ BR ] ] 
<nixternal> but i have an alias
<nixternal> setup
<nixternal> use capitals poningru, or it won't work
<nixternal> for the break
<poningru> oh I didnt use it
<nixternal> ok
<poningru> but read through the first half
<poningru> see if it sounds ok from nonUS perspective
<nixternal> i am from Chicago, so my language is totally different from eveyrone elses ;)
<Burgundavia> nixternal: poningru: are you both still editing?
<nixternal> im done
<nixternal> poningru had it last
<Burgundavia> I think I am going to have one last look thorugh it and then send to ubuntu-news
<nixternal> let crimsun look it over...he is a good proofer
<nixternal> once it is ready, i will get it on the fridge
<Burgundavia> and I will get in on -news, cause I want the credit this week ;)
<poningru> yeah /me is still editing
<poningru> ok done
<poningru> bbl /me has to go eat
<poningru> Burgundavia: did you catch that?
<Burgundavia> poningru: that you are eating? yes
<poningru> rofl
* poningru meant the /me is done
<poningru> Burgundavia: I thought this had to go out today
<Burgundavia> poningru: it does. crimsun is doing a quick check and then I am going to send it
<poningru> sweet
<poningru> Burgundavia: one quick thing make sure screenshot is changed to plural
<Burgundavia> yep
<nixternal> heh, someone sent me an email telling me i need to get an advogato account...so i check it out..and...well i am going to leave that alone
<Burgundavia> nixternal: did you use raw view and send the email of that?
<nixternal> yes
<poningru> hehe
<Burgundavia> done
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Burgundavia] : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam | UWN #9 is out |
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Burgundavia] : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam | UWN #9 is out | Channel logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<Burgundavia> *grumble at x-g*
<poningru> sweet
<johnlittle>  woo..thx for the mention
<Burgundavia> I like to mention the people behind the projects
<johnlittle> I added a link to the counter..and the book publisher btw
<johnlittle> still working my way through the site looking for places to do things like that
<poningru> woah /me is in there too
<poningru> thanks dude :)
<Burgundavia> funny how a mention in a newletter can really validate people
<Burgundavia> hmm, reply to should have been set to the marketing list
<johnlittle> I'm constantly self-validating but it's still appreciated :)
<nixternal> Burgundavia: nobody ever replies to it anyways..so it is fine..good job!
<Burgundavia> right, I have already got two bounces and one thanks
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> oh ya, you always get the "thanks" one
<johnlittle> anyone speak french?
<nixternal> that would be useless however i think for the marketing list
<nixternal> ya johnlittle
<johnlittle> http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/ubuntu/video/x4h9j_obountou
<nixternal> http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en speaks it just fine
<nixternal> well google won't fix that ;)
<johnlittle> Nope
<johnlittle> Slab is pretty slick
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: bit is it useful?
<Burgundavia> it is usable?
<johnlittle> very
<johnlittle> no bugs or instability noticed yet
<Burgundavia> that is not same as usable
<johnlittle> it can be
<Burgundavia> I think what they are doing is interesting, I just don't know if it has anything over the current menu structure
<Burgundavia> now gimmie, that is interesting
<johnlittle> I'm not sure I'm a fan of that whole architecture but I think a lot of people will go for it
<johnlittle> It's very customizable which is a plus. I'm going to try it for a few days and see if it takes.
<poningru> wait what are we talking about?
<johnlittle> I think we were talking about Slab
<poningru> sorry the bit threw me off
<johnlittle> http://youtube.com/watch?v=xSkCny-HtTw
<johnlittle> That video might sink the FOSS movement lol
<poningru> that actually isnt so bad
<johnlittle> Production quality is great..but I find the whole thing kind of odd
<johnlittle> then theres this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHY5EFvldJc
<johnlittle> if there's a video about foss, linux, ubuntu online then i think ive seen it. I hope people start making more.
* ompaul hands johnlittle a copy of revolution o/s and wonders if there should be a revolution o/s part deux
<johnlittle> I think i have that slated to go out..its great
<johnlittle> the bbc codebreakers series is awesome too
<ompaul> johnlittle,  http://www.newsforge.com/blob.pl?id=d68a3f301777be569a9f7dd1c202cc7e
<johnlittle> lol
<johnlittle> no live demo..thats hilarious
<johnlittle> One of his videos is on the Get Ubuntu page: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/get-ubuntu/
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, so is the 'herder of felines' joke in the lastest UWN your fault?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: no, absolutely not ;)
<Burgundavia> I was playing on the whole "ubuntu, pronounced balh, means blah in ancient african"
<Burgundavia> although I apparently made jeff annoyed
<Burgundavia> he seems to think my comment linked his leaving and jonos coming
<elkbuntu> i know im coming in late on this.. but.. oh. my. gawd.. that song stinks of techno-hippiness
<johnlittle> lol
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: song?
<poningru> elkbuntu: hey man I love that song
<elkbuntu> the free software song
<poningru> http://youtube.com/watch?v=xSkCny-HtTw
<poningru> http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html
<ormiret> I think jono's version is the best I've heard: http://www.recreantview.org/blog/?page_id=15
<poningru> rofl
<Madpilot> OK, that was strange as hell - thank you, ormiret ;)
<ormiret> :)
<johnlittle> Yep thats the best version
<elkbuntu> canonical needs to get some better redundancy in their servers... cant be a good look to have the wiki down at some point on an almost weekly basis
<elkbuntu> s/wiki/sites
<poningru> and for the loco team one of the server is down :(
<poningru> which hosts software freedom day webpage
<poningru> :(
<johnlittle> these are the kinds of linux videos i want ppl to make more of: http://youtube.com/watch?v=yMjk31_AfT0
<johnlittle> wiki is down again?
<poningru> uh...
<poningru> it is
<Kamping_Kaiser> poningru, oh, is that wheres its gone
<poningru> Kamping_Kaiser: yeah :(
<poningru> greebo is not happy
<poningru> not that we can complain or anything.... but still
* Kamping_Kaiser is so over servers going awol
<Kamping_Kaiser> we can complain, we just cant help
<poningru> you know what I do like? the ibm mini eminem linux commercials
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt seen em
<poningru> hbqOqOuLTT8
<johnlittle> Those are awesome
<johnlittle> I'll probably run those but im saving them for a slow period
<poningru> another good series is the red hat once
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-es/attachments/20051202/4abe3cb1/ubuntu_5.11.jpg
<Burgundavia> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Sexy_Logo
<Burgundavia> I pass no judement
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<poningru> rofl
* poningru <3
* Kamping_Kaiser thinks its good to have that sort of artwork coming back - its been 3 years now since we had any!
<elkbuntu> back to the warty days?
<poningru> yeah we need the porn distro title back
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe "boobuntu would be the most secure platform to surf for your pr0n"
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, yeh
<johnlittle> theres a better one..hmm off to google
<johnlittle> yep google images..ubuntu..yikes
* Kamping_Kaiser knows people who swear they only started using ubuntu for the cover on the warty cds 
<poningru> rofl
<elkbuntu> sex sells
<johnlittle> linux could using some xtra sexy :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, not sure that fits in with the marketing team ;)
<johnlittle> use
<poningru> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/no-pony-for-you.jpg
<poningru> that comes up thats so awesome
<poningru> google imags for ubuntu
* poningru goes to show to rob
<johnlittle> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh
<elkbuntu> Kamping_Kaiser, my body wouldnt sell peanuts to an elephant
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, nm, we can use poningru .
* poningru is a guy
<poningru> ...
<poningru> err different rob
<poningru> not our rob
<Kamping_Kaiser> poningru, theres female elephants
<elkbuntu> rofl
<Kamping_Kaiser> and when females do something, males follow ;)
* Kamping_Kaiser hatches master plan to ubuntu the world, starting with women
<poningru> hmm excellent
<johnlittle> you're not far off the mark actually. Linux needs a female face
<Kamping_Kaiser> i just showed someone that link, and i got back:() Hiedi H: u perve
<johnlittle> heh
<poningru> lol
<johnlittle> I think i need to make an old school ununtu wallpaper
<Madpilot> old school, in this case, translating as, "Women not wearing much"?
<poningru> rofl
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<poningru> we need our own qdb
<Kamping_Kaiser> poningru, the bzr team just have a wiki page where people can put quotes
<poningru> hmm
<Kamping_Kaiser> (they had 4 last i looked)
<poningru> oh man...
* poningru is gonna put up his gentoo box as a qdb eventually
<johnlittle> i still need to make orange eyes for this one: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ubuntumktg7.png
<johnlittle> anybody good at that sort of stuff?
<poningru> should be simple to do
<poningru> give me a sec
<Madpilot> I can have a go. Glowing orange eyes would be fun.
<johnlittle> go for it
<poningru> oh wait you want the glassy orange right?
* poningru cant exactly do that
<johnlittle> ideally yeah
<johnlittle> but whatever
<poningru> hmm /me reads gimp docs
<poningru> hopefully there is a replace function
* Kamping_Kaiser waits for a caching proxy that breaks images into chunks, and caches those - i could just reload about 100^ px of this image, rather then the whole lot
<Kamping_Kaiser> *lol* at MT reference
<Madpilot> johnlittle, it's a bit hackish, but: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/ubuntupolice-orangesample.png
<poningru> woah
<poningru> how did you do it so quick?
<johnlittle> very nice
<johnlittle> better than I could have done
<poningru> indeed
* poningru too
<Madpilot> poningru, I is a gimp guru ;)
* poningru bows
<Madpilot> tutorial in a moment, if anyone wants an improptu gimp lesson
<Madpilot> after I get a drink :)
<poningru> ooh yeah
<Madpilot> right, I have a nice cold gin & tonic.
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: is that an official valve image?
<Madpilot> how to give anime-ish policemen glowing orange eyes
<Madpilot> 1. start the GIMP & open that image. Zoom in on one pair of eyes.
<johnlittle> Not sure. Couldnt find it on their site. It was on third party wallpaper sites
<poningru> ooh wait
<johnlittle> I'm assuming that it is though.
<Madpilot> hit "B" - that'll get you the Path tool
<Madpilot> Paths are cool, they're an easily controlled way to do all sorts of things
<Madpilot> click on a series of points, and the Path tool will connect them. Close the shape & hit Enter, and you've got a selection - like the lasso, but way easier to control
<poningru> select the eyes?
<Madpilot> yup, select the inside edge of the eyes - the inside of the socket, basically
<Madpilot> where the strong blue ends
<Madpilot> hit Enter to make a selection, then B again to clear the path nodes - you don't need them again
<Madpilot> Now go Select menu->Grow, set that to 5 pixels, hit OK
<poningru> woah
<Madpilot> then Select->Feather, set to 5px, hit OK
<Madpilot> that'll give our orange glow a soft edge, when we're done.
<Madpilot> next, create a new layer - Layer menu->New Layer
<Madpilot> make sure you're on the new layer - layer dialogue is on the righthand side of the screen
<poningru> oh transparency new layer fill type?
<Madpilot> leave it at default, just hit OK when you get the new layer dialogue
<poningru> ah ok
<Madpilot> Transparency should be the default
<poningru> yeah transparency is the default
<elkbuntu> you did it the hard way
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, there's different ways to do all this stuff, I'm going with 'easiest to explain' ;)
<Madpilot> 'easiest to type', perhaps
<Madpilot> OK - next, Shift+B to get you to the bucket fill tool
<elkbuntu> lasso the eyes, layer > colourise, get to the right colour, tweak lightness and saturation, dont let it go too pale. layer > brightness/contrast, get it looking bright enough
<Madpilot> double click on the colour selector, pick a nice bright orange shade
<elkbuntu> that's all i need to type :D
* poningru sticks to Madpilot's way
<poningru> for now
<poningru> will try elkbuntu later
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe. dissed
<poningru> err...
<johnlittle> not quite old school: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ss/ubuntubeach2.png
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, my way introduces a bunch of new cool concepts, too. layer blends & such
<elkbuntu> http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/ubuntumktg7.png
<Madpilot> next, flood fill the selection with orange. It'll be opaque, but that we'll fix next
<johnlittle> beautiful work
<elkbuntu> johnlittle, my link.. that what you were wanting?
<johnlittle> i gotta kill the blue ubuntu now
<Madpilot> above the Layers dialogue there's a dropdown called Mode - set that to "Screen" - glowing orange eyes, with no blue bits around the edges to distract
<poningru> mode?
<Madpilot> poningru, in the Layers display, above the actual layers, there's a dropdown, titled "Mode"
<poningru> doh ic it
<poningru> woah
<Madpilot> is cool, no?
<poningru> nice
<Madpilot> Layers blending is awesome
<johnlittle> I think i need to play with the color of the ubuntu but it more or less works: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ss/umkt.png
<Burgundavia> can you put the logo in their eyes?
<johnlittle> thats easy enough. I thought about that
<johnlittle> You think like Dr. Evil...
<Burgundavia> now we need to just get around the issue of the fact that we are using a copyrighted image...
<poningru> rofl
<johnlittle> I wasn't planning on releasing this anywhere.
<johnlittle> Can you imagine rolling this out at a some linux event..that would freak people out
<johnlittle> giant posters in a convention hall
<Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/ubuntupolice-orange.png <- my version, slightly brighter orange
<Madpilot> the righthand guy is a bit messy :|
<Madpilot> I serioiusly think "We've come for your desktop" should replace "Linux for human beings" :)
<johnlittle> lol
<johnlittle> I like them both. I don't think I would have done as well as either of you
<johnlittle> two different styles..both cool.
<Madpilot> or maybe we could just adopt it as Marketing Team's logo
<Madpilot> slogan, rather
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, well there are a few bounties open on LP about changing it, so why not :0
<johnlittle> This just in..theres been a slight change in Ubuntu's image...
<poningru> more evil
<poningru> ;)
<johnlittle> Now With More Evil
<Madpilot> I thought MS had that market cornered?
<Burgundavia> we just need them to have puppy skin helmets, and we will truly have cornered the evil market
<johnlittle> Ballmer will be calling Bill..."I think these guys are serious..."
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
* poningru wants to see sabdafl throwing a chair
<johnlittle> Puppy Skin Shipit CD covers?
<poningru> ooh
<Burgundavia> hmm...
<johnlittle> and small pring "Puppies were harmed in the production of this distro:
<johnlittle> er small print
<Madpilot> but not ponies, because there is no pony for you!
<johnlittle> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Burgundavia> I wonder why somebody would unsubscribe from a three message *a month* mailing list...
* Burgundavia watches the -news subs and unsubs come by
<Kamping_Kaiser> -news?
<Madpilot> So, quick poll: Has John Baer had his sense of humour surgically removed, or was it absent from birth?
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ss/ubuntubeach3.png
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, quicker poll. whotf is that?
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, you not on the marketing team mailing list?
<johnlittle> That cracked me up
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, if not, this post, and thread from there: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2006-August/000944.html
<Madpilot> gah, is gmail sending my email as HTML? Eww.
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, i'm on it, but not following any lists at the moment.
* Burgundavia wonders if his 600
<Burgundavia> 600+ email backlog is due to jbaer...
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, no, just the really, really long, strange emails to -marketing :)
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> at the marketing team is not trying to produce documentation
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, oh, i see.
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders at some people
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, hence my 'quick poll' question ;) Which way would you vote?>
<Madpilot> Perhaps hitting him with Webster's was a bit too much... nah.
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. absent from birth :) (ducks incase said person is here)
<Burgundavia> his nick is jbaer
* Kamping_Kaiser will read the thread in a bit
<johnlittle> He seems to just hang around to drop bombs..unless someones seem him do something else.
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: remind me to forward you some of the stuff our marketing guy produces at work
<ormiret> johnlittle: I think he wrote the charter for the magazine
<Madpilot> johnlittle, he writes long wiki articles too
<Madpilot> well, not really articles, just long pages
<Kamping_Kaiser> ormiret, has it exploaded? :)
<johnlittle> pages of what?
<johnlittle> oh wait I think i read one of those...nevermind
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, if it's in similar vein, I'm not sure you need to waste the bandwidth :)
<Burgundavia> oh, very much so
<Madpilot> johnlittle, long 'this is how real marketing is done' pages :|
<Burgundavia> the sad part is that our marketing guys get paid to do this
<johnlittle> Yeah read that...shudder
<Madpilot> I'm sure he means well, but really...
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, you can mean whatever you like, but when you say 'do it my way, because', you loose... er... everytghing
<Madpilot> what about when you take 500+ words to say that?
<johnlittle> it least it wasnt in all caps
<Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, one reason i'm not follings lists atm: they seem to be in big email overdrive (esp marketing)
<Madpilot> yeah, -marketing has picked up lately
<Burgundavia> sadly at least half of it is noise
<elkbuntu> nice response to the loony, Madpilot :)
<Madpilot> Thank you. I try for brevity & clarity. Sometimes I make it. ;)
<johnlittle> Wait until you see my 5 page "What is a loony?" piece
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<johnlittle> j/k..no reply from me
<elkbuntu> i seriously felt like replying with 'stop wasting our <profanity> time', but i restrained myself
<johnlittle> It would be more entertaining to send out that wallpaper with a note about it being the official edgy theme
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl
<elkbuntu> johnlittle, find one of the well-established hoax sites that is techy.. see how quickly they get it viral ;)
<poningru> yar
<poningru> r
<Burgundavia> like digg?
<poningru> or /.?
<elkbuntu> no...
<johnlittle> Yeah it probably would
<elkbuntu> i mean like the sites that manage to pull of actual proper hoaxes
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, so, like Digg or /. then
<Madpilot> ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<poningru> elkbuntu: hehe
<elkbuntu> meh
<johnlittle> I find myself going back to the default theme and wallpaper a lot these days...that's odd
<Burgundavia> funny how it grows on you?
<johnlittle> yep
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt changed his default theme since ubuntu came out
<Burgundavia> I started using the default as part of the doc team, because I need to have default for that
<Madpilot> I use default theme, but I change wallpapers a couple times a week
<johnlittle> Will there be new artwork for edgy?
<johnlittle> Guess so...ive seen the wiki lol
* poningru either
<Burgundavia> wow, youtube is filled with lots of really old videos
<Kamping_Kaiser> GARRR!, just when i want to find help on checkinstall ubuntus disapeared *slaps randomly*
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: checkinstall is evil anyway, my son
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, :/ well i can checkinstall it, or make install it
* Kamping_Kaiser make installs. and hopes he wont regret it
<poningru> hehe
<elkbuntu> i must be bored. http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/apple.png
<Burgundavia> that is good
<johnlittle> haha me too: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ss/moonbuntu.png
<johnlittle> mine isnt so good
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, pimpin' it to the apple usr ;)
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: wash out the apple to grey and just have the ubuntu logo in colour
<johnlittle> good idea
<johnlittle> would be nice to have it next to a macbook with ubuntu...
<elkbuntu> or in a screenshot of a mac ;)
<elkbuntu> and not screenshot as in print screen
<Burgundavia> no, don't go that far
<elkbuntu> a shot of the screen of a mac
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, cool apple
<elkbuntu> let me do the desaturated version
<Madpilot> cool moon, too
<johnlittle> thx..just playin
<Kamping_Kaiser> you people and your pictures :( your amazing :|
<Madpilot> an Ubuntu.ca wallpaper I did last week: http://ubuntu-ca.org/wallpaper/UC_wallpaper1.png
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ss/catbuntu.png
<johnlittle> nice
<johnlittle> I was thinking canadian before i read the logo :)
<Madpilot> johnlittle, distort the logo sideways on that cat's eye a bit, so it looks more like a reflection
<johnlittle> yeah i know..im lazy :/
<johnlittle> I'll retouch it in the morning
<elkbuntu> http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/apple2.png
<johnlittle> would be better with the xubuntu mous elogo
<elkbuntu> definately
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, very cool
* Madpilot swears at the GIMP's awful rescaling tool...
<elkbuntu> hehe
<Madpilot> Seriously, I don't think it's possible to rescale something and automatically keep the same aspect ratio...
<johnlittle> nice apple
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: here is my last idea. What about a slightly coloured apple, with a less transparent logo (yes, I am very picky)
<elkbuntu> http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/apple3.png
<Madpilot> Cool
<elkbuntu> full series, hehe
<Madpilot> wonder how much it would cost to get that on the side of a bus for a month or two? :)
<elkbuntu> lol
<poningru> not much actually
<poningru> if you go a cheap rural route
<elkbuntu> strangely, i dont even own an apple, but the idea popped into my bored brain anyway
<Burgundavia> too bad it would just advertise apple
<Burgundavia> better to do something else
<elkbuntu> yeah, but the idea was to aim it at apple users
<Burgundavia> as long as it says "ubuntu" linux for human beings
<Madpilot> no, no, "We've come for your desktop", remember?
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> that can be another add
<Burgundavia> ad, rather
<elkbuntu> are we seriously considering ads now?
<Madpilot> I'm not, just BSing
<mindspin> good morning
<johnlittle> omg wtf: http://primativeperspective.com/monkey_pictures.htm
<mindspin>  is the wiki down ?
* poningru goes to bed
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: I have given much thought to it locally
<poningru> mindspin: yeah
<elkbuntu> had i more $s to my name, i probably would consider it also
<poningru> Burgundavia: seriously?
<poningru> damn too tired to discuss...
<Burgundavia> poningru: yes, but ultimately rejected it
<poningru> night guys
<Burgundavia> due to lack of return for investment
<poningru> ok /me was going along the same lines
<poningru> night or morning now I guess
<mindspin> ads are boring and imho not a good way concerning price/effort
<Burgundavia> yep
<elkbuntu> magazine exposure is where it's at
<mindspin> press press press
<elkbuntu> location location location
<mindspin> ;-)
<johnlittle> ok I know im tired now: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ss/chimp.png
<Madpilot> ...
<Madpilot> I'd suggest using a pic of a certain world leader & the same end tag, but that would probably severely bend the CoC ;)
<elkbuntu> you mean, he's not actually a chimp? there i was thinking...
<Madpilot> be nice
<elkbuntu> it was the facial contortions that confused me
<johnlittle> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/8/prweb423568.htm
<Burgundavia> fridge it
<johnlittle> who me?
<johnlittle> ok this is odd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0_qDqqyj1k
<Madpilot>  _____________________________
<Madpilot> < We've come for your desktop >
<Madpilot>  -----------------------------
<Madpilot>         \   ^__^
<Madpilot>          \  (oo)\_______
<Madpilot>             (__)\       )\/\
<Madpilot>                 ||----w |
<Madpilot>                 ||     ||
<johnlittle> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<elkbuntu>       _                    _
<elkbuntu>   ___| |_    _ _  ___  ___| |_ _ _ _  _
<elkbuntu>  / _ \ ' \  | ' \/ _ \/ -_)  _| '_| || |
<elkbuntu>  \___/_||_| |_||_\___/\___|\__|_|  \_, |
<elkbuntu>                                    |__/
<Kamping_Kaiser>  /mode +b elkbuntu Madpilot "stop spamming :P"
<elkbuntu> you'll never defeat us
<Kamping_Kaiser> :/
<elkbuntu> my spam was less spammy
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe. but less meaningfull
<ormiret> elkbuntu: perhaps not defeat but we can /ignore which is almost as good
<Madpilot> my spam was cowsay, so it doesn't count as spam
<elkbuntu> is that so?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<elkbuntu> sh: fig: command not found
<elkbuntu>  __
<elkbuntu> <  >
<elkbuntu>  --
<elkbuntu>         \   ^__^
<elkbuntu>          \  (oo)\_______
<elkbuntu>             (__)\       )\/\
<elkbuntu>                 ||----w |
<elkbuntu>                 ||     ||
<elkbuntu> fugg
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe. jOO m3ss3d up!
<elkbuntu> figlet: oh.flf: Unable to open font file
<elkbuntu>  __
<elkbuntu> <  >
<elkbuntu>  --
<elkbuntu>         \   ^__^
<elkbuntu>          \  (oo)\_______
<elkbuntu>             (__)\       )\/\
<elkbuntu>                 ||----w |
<elkbuntu>                 ||     ||
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl
<elkbuntu> o.O
<elkbuntu>  _________________________________________
<elkbuntu> /      _                    _             \
<elkbuntu> |  ___| |_    _ _  ___  ___| |_ _ _ _  _  |
<elkbuntu> | / _ \ ' \  | ' \/ _ \/ -_)  _| '_| || | |
<elkbuntu> | \___/_||_| |_||_\___/\___|\__|_|  \_, | |
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: please stop, think of the puppies
<elkbuntu> \                                   |__/  /
<elkbuntu>  -----------------------------------------
<elkbuntu>         \   ^__^
<elkbuntu>          \  (oo)\_______
<elkbuntu>             (__)\       )\/\
<elkbuntu>                 ||----w |
<elkbuntu>                 ||     ||
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<mdke> elkbuntu: please stop now
<elkbuntu> there!
<Madpilot> my God, it's full of cows!
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, is there a puppy cowsay? you started this remember
<mdke> let's not get overexcited
<elkbuntu> i wasnt, excited, i was just undertaking Madpilot's decree that cowsay wasnt spam :P
<elkbuntu> and stuffing it up twice
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, you need to practice ;)
<Madpilot> no, *my* cowsay isn't spam. Yours might be. ;)
<elkbuntu> how can cowsay + figlet be a bad thing?
<matthewrevell> wow, the wonders of SUnday morning irc
* Kamping_Kaiser sees 5000000 lines of spam bad things :)
<Burgundavia> morning matthewrevell
<matthewrevell> morning :)
<Burgundavia> night all
<ompaul>  /exec cowsay did you know every time you use cowsay I loose a karama point
<jenda> ompaul--
<ompaul> jenda, deps on eariler conversations
<jenda> Of course :)
<ormiret> ompaul was kind enough to not actually do it
<jenda> But you lose a karma point all the same ;)
<jenda> I see.
* jenda is tired... will be a hard job to catch up with everything that went on in the meantime.
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh, naughty elkbuntu :P
<ormiret> Did we ever figure out if there was a meeting today?
<jenda> Meeting???
<jenda> nvm, I gotta run. I hope I'm here if it happens.
<ormiret> The next meeting date at the end of the last minuted is today
<ormiret> sara mentioned at one point but noone else knew anything about it
<elkbuntu> sometime the past few hours, the counter hit the 10k machine milestone.. w00t!
* Kamping_Kaiser claps 
* MenZa applaudes
<MenZa> !karma
<MenZa> blepe.
<MenZa> bleep/*
<Kamping_Kaiser> does ubuntu have offical forums? when did they become offical?
<elkbuntu> nooo idea
<Kamping_Kaiser> :/
<elkbuntu> its just the work of an uneducated troll
<Kamping_Kaiser> i wanted to be sure
<elkbuntu> oh ffs.. john baer is at it again
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt looked at the list allday
* Kamping_Kaiser thinks hes probably not missed much
<elkbuntu> baer is getting his knickers in a knot re: bug #1
<Kamping_Kaiser> wghat can i say? good
<elkbuntu> so you agree bug #1 should be abolished?
<Kamping_Kaiser> stuff that. print it on tshirts
<elkbuntu> that's what baer is calling for...
<elkbuntu> not the tshirts.. the abolishment
<Kamping_Kaiser> exactly. pin it to him.
<Kamping_Kaiser> people with no sence of humour/uniqueness can bugger off. i have to put up with to many of them already
* Kamping_Kaiser has amusing thought 
<elkbuntu> ive run out of patience with him.. i'll leave it to one of the more articulate fellows to give him a verbal enema
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'any of you who are in advertising or marketing, kill yourselfs. there is no rationalisation for what you do, you are satans little helpers, kill yourself, killyourself,kill yourself now. now. back to the show" - bill hicks
* Kamping_Kaiser sees email topic 'bug 1 closed it', and goes to look
<elkbuntu> if he did, he'll be banished from ubuntu for life
<Kamping_Kaiser> he hasnt, he just ranted
<elkbuntu> did you go check?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
<elkbuntu> heh... i was refraining from just incase...
<Kamping_Kaiser> its been closed before, but it always gets reopneed
* ompaul wonders if he should call john b a troll 
<ompaul> and decides not to
<mindspin> I#m just reading him...
<ompaul> mindspin, don't - you should have a nice Sunday
<mindspin> hehe
<mindspin> I had til now
<elkbuntu> ompaul, i did consider replying, but i could only think of non-CoC things to say
<ompaul> elkbuntu, let it alone, the "it is a joke" is not getting though is an issue not for the list
<elkbuntu> he seems intent on just making a crapload of noise in the list though.. he sent another 'values' email too...
<elkbuntu> if finances, or lack thereof, and conscience were not stopping me, i would be quite tempted to vent frustration at his ignorant persistance in performing bodily harm on his person
<ompaul> elkbuntu, it is not worth investing your energy in such
<elkbuntu> but it would be so empowering ;)
<ompaul>  /cs m elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> :P
<ompaul> we can be diverted by people like him or not - frankly I still have that idea and I can't get it onto a wiki page .. but I will, after I get a blinding flash of brilliance on the staircase
<ompaul> words fail me in my "super map" :-(
* elkbuntu hands ompaul replacement words.
<ompaul> elkbuntu, it is not the words but capturing the picture I have in my mind - I find it very difficult to wrestle it into words, it is a specific picture but it can be viewed as macro and micro at the same time - almost a fractal like quality
* ompaul gives up 
<mdke> oh christ, the mailing list bug strikes again
<MenZa> ohnoes
<elkbuntu> mdke, common reaction tonight.
<nixternal> i just sent an email to the list, i hope it isn't considered a bug ;)
<elkbuntu> nixternal, only if you're verging on trolling or repeating the same crud over again
* mdke winds up a reprimand to John Baer
<nixternal> ooh mdke, i can't wait to see it
<nixternal> i love how Corey finally let off a little steam
<nixternal> all of a sudden, since he doesn't get what he wants, he attacks..i don't like that, and if he was "intelligent" enough to understand he is talking about the CoC and at the same time disrespecting or disregarding it
<mdke> sent
<mdke> hopefully that is not too harsh
<elkbuntu> no, its just one up from dennis' earlier mail
<elkbuntu> and i thought he was being too kind.. hence why i havent replied
<mdke> I'm encouraged by how this team is evolving
<mdke> there are a good number of sensible doing people stepping up now
<mdke> hopefully things will start to move now
<elkbuntu> i can only hope i'm part of that
<nixternal> mdke: very well said in that email
<mdke> hey, you're the top one :)
* nixternal hands mdke an attaboy
<elkbuntu> you serious?
<elkbuntu> i sort of thought with the fridge and all that the surveys would be sort of minor
<mdke> well, the fridge isn't really doing much marketing :)
<elkbuntu> nor are the surveys yet.. but i suppose the counter is
* poningru yawns
<poningru> morning
<elkbuntu> anyway, off to bed with me, since it's almost 3am
<poningru> night
<matthewrevell> evening
<matthewrevell> How does one scream on a mailing list?
<MenZa> *screams in matthewrevell's face*
<MenZa> Like that.
<johnlittle> I can't believe the nasty emails I'm getting because of ubuntu video
<matthewrevell> MenZa: Nice work
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: seriously?
<johnlittle> mattewrevell: Yes...I'm an enemy of FOSS for leveraging flash
<johnlittle> youtube hosting..etc
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: Has it been openly hostile?
<johnlittle> no big deal. I'm just surprised that people don't understand that they aren't all videos I produced
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: I can't remember if it's flagged up clearly on the site and am too lazy to open a Firefox tab ... but maybe you could make it more clear.
<johnlittle> some of them are. I think that those folks are in the minority though. I think we have to keep in mind that not all ubuntu users are concerned about FOSS. Some people just want a great operating system
<johnlittle> Yeah I'm thinking about another way of making that point
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: Thing is, and I've siad this many times before, zealotry isn't really helpful, most of the time
<matthewrevell> So, people attacking you are basically counterproductive. They should be trying to persuade you of what they believe, rather than attacking you for disagreeing
<johnlittle> Yep. It doesn't bother me. My other gig is politics so I can take it :)
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: Cool.
<matthewrevell> johnlittle: Not everyone can, though, and people shouldn't have to.
<johnlittle> I'm just suprised that some people are that emotional about it
<nixternal> he will take it, and he will enjoy it ;)
<johnlittle> lol
<matthewrevell> Anyway, love, teamwork, integrity, excellence, inclusion, teamwork.
<matthewrevell> again
<nixternal> a client of mine brings in a broken lappy, and says fix it..immediately after boot, i know it is a bad drive..replace the drive, and offer him Kubuntu or Ubuntu free of charge, and that I will service his laptop for FREE, for the next 6 months, and that i will instruct him on his new setup
<nixternal> he tells me
<nixternal> Nah, I don't like the way the name sounds
<matthewrevell> nixternal: UncleSamOS suit him better? :)
<nixternal> so, he insisted on windows...so i charged him full price and offer him no free support ;)
<nixternal> i have all his servers, and he runs Ubuntu on them ;)
<johnlittle> Should I even have comments enabled on UV..I don't really want to wade through lots of battles about FOSS or other distros every day.
<nixternal> jenda!!!
<nixternal> i just noticed you were here ;)
<nixternal> welcome back buddy!
<johnlittle> http://www.digitalcitizen.info/2006/08/09/when-co-optation-is-called-rivalrous-where-is-users-software-freedom/
<johnlittle> I removed the comment feature on UV and beefed up the about page a little.
<johnlittle> Has anyone ever been booted from the marketing ML?
<ormiret> I don't think so
<Madpilot> Wow, Mr. Baer has trouble taking hints, doesn't he?
<johnlittle> I have to fight the urge to send that wallpaper to the group
<jenda> johnlittle: would you be the one behind ubuntuvideo?
<johnlittle> jenda: I would be.
<jenda> Very nice project - I was amazed.
<jenda> I had a look even though I was on vacation.
<jenda> Could use a little polishing and community integration.
<johnlittle> Yep I'm still polishing as we speak
<jenda> Congrats on great work - and thanks :)
<johnlittle> Thank you.
<johnlittle> If you have suggestions just let me know
<jenda> How about using the ubuntu header instead of yours - for continuity, not that it doesn't look good.
<Burgundavia> hey jenda, welcome back
<johnlittle> That was my original idea but I didn't know if that was possible
<jenda> Hello Burgundavia, thanks.
<jenda> What'd I miss?
<jenda> :-D
<Burgundavia> whiprush: ping
<johnlittle> Jenda: I have to run. Feel free to shoot me an email with any ideas you have.
<johnlittle> johnwlittle@gmail.com
<jenda> johnlittle: okeydoke ;)
<jenda> Who is whiprush? (Sorry to be rude...)
<Burgundavia> jenda: guy I am manning the GNOME booth with at LWE
<jenda> I see.
<jenda> Hello mindspin
<Burgundavia> he also uses Ubuntu. Real name is Jorge Castro
<mindspin> hi
<jenda> Sounds great.
<Burgundavia> jenda: lots has changed since you went on vacation. I suggest you talk to the fridge guys, as SU is basically already done, by them
<jenda> eh
<jenda> OK
<whiprush> Burgundavia: pong
<jenda> One brief look shows that the most important part of SU - the DIY Marketing guides - is simply not there.
<jenda> Burgundavia: what might happen, though, is that I'll stick to doing just that as the main focus of SU.
<jenda> But - I first need some time to catch up.
<Burgundavia> the DIY stuff can happen on the wiki
<Burgundavia> just like the rest of the marketing material
<Burgundavia> thus make SU a virtual project, rather than an actual website
<jenda> Hm
<jenda> Will consider.
<jenda> Or it should be a page on ubuntu.com
<jenda> in the how to contribute section
<Burgundavia> well the community/contribute page is mostly going to point to the wiki
<Burgundavia> and the marketing stuff is going to point to the marketing pages
<jenda> Of course
<jenda> what marketing pages?
<jenda> hm
<Burgundavia> wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
<Burgundavia> creating SU at this point is pure insanity
<Burgundavia> as spreadubuntu.com, that is
<jenda> IYO, that is ;)
<mdke> I think spreadubuntu, if done well, will be a good project
<mdke> so does Matthew R
<Burgundavia> mdke: as a seperate website?
<mdke> yes, potentially
<jenda> Burgundavia, I think that many of the points on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu are unfilled anywhere, and would be a big help to advocating Ubuntu worldwide.
<Burgundavia> under goals and objectives: the first three need to be addressed via the main website and I admit it isn't the greatest at that
<Burgundavia> regardless of whether SU exists and duplicates that, they do need to be addressed by the ubuntu website
<Burgundavia> number 6 is the wiki
<Burgundavia> so is 5
<Burgundavia> number 4 can simply be a wiki page: "How to tell your neighbours about Ubuntu" or something similar
<mdke> yes, numbers 5 and 6 are certainly not relevant. 1-4 are valid for an ubuntu marketing website
<Burgundavia> MS does not have a seperate "marketing website"
<jenda> wikipages do not have the appeal needed for most people to notice, unfortunately.
<Burgundavia> we need good marketing stuff on Ubuntu.com with links saying "come help us market Ubuntu", linking to the wiki
<Burgundavia> voila, SU
<mdke> Burgundavia: MS has totally different marketing considerations
<jenda> Since when was MS the idol we consider...
<Burgundavia> yes, but marketing is marketing
<mdke> no
<Burgundavia> I was using MS as an example
<mdke> MS doesn't need to get into people's awareness, everyone knows who they are
<Burgundavia> at the level we are talking about, yes
<mdke> it's completely different marketing they look at
<jenda> Alrighty, I gotta go. I still feel there is a point in SU - and will do all I can to get it up and running.
<Burgundavia> precisely why we shouldn't be splitting the viewers
<Burgundavia> I like SU as a virtual project, to keep us focused on working on the existing resources
<mdke> grabbing awareness is something a spread/get* site does well
<Burgundavia> right, FF has two pages
<Burgundavia> getfirefox <-> ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> and spreadfirefox <-> fridge/wiki
<jenda> SU is not modelled after spreadfirefox
<Burgundavia> mdke raised FF, via his get/spread site thingy
<Burgundavia> jenda: all I am saying is that I cannot see a place for a read spreadubuntu.com that does not needlessly duplicate and fracture existing resources, including people
<Burgundavia> s/read/real
<Burgundavia> where are people going to go when they produce new marketing material? SU or here
<mdke> what do you mean by "new marketing material"?
<mdke> spreadubuntu is a website for potential new Ubuntu users, not marketing people
<Burgundavia> spreadubuntu is going to attract people, people produce stuff
<mdke> people produce stuff?
<jenda> If you mean new DIY material - they'll post it to the wiki, which will be checked and added to SU periodically, I'm imagining...
<mdke> you mean, when they go to the toilet?
<Burgundavia> if SU is all about merely attracting new users, then what about ubuntu.com
<jenda> gah
<jenda> It is not.
<Burgundavia> I think this much is clear: there is no clear idea for SU that we all agree one
<Burgundavia> which makes it hard to make a rational decision to create such a website
<jenda> Burgundavia: that might be true.
<mdke> well, cutting out goals 5-6, it is about attracting new users
<mdke> and goals 5-6 are clearly not helpful
<Burgundavia> in which case, we need to answer the question: What about ubuntu.com is not fufilling that role?
<jenda> And for me - the highest priority are guides and material for potential local spreaders (though, of course, not the only goal).
<mdke> because ubuntu.com is a much more complicated a rich site
<mdke> jenda: ok, that's definitely a completely irrelevant role for any site other than the wiki
<Burgundavia> if your goal is to merely produce things like that, which are sorely needed, the wiki serves great for that
<jenda> I strongly disagree, but don't have time now to discuss it.
<mdke> in fact, not using the wiki would be seriously damaging
<jenda> The wiki will be used, of course.
<mdke> and completely unacceptable
<Burgundavia> mdke: you say "We are different than MS". Our main website should reflect that. It should reflect out community. Currently it does that badly, but that is a fixable issue
<mdke> sure sure. but I think there is a place for a much simpler site with a single page/a few pages which is used for attracting new users.
<mdke> maybe I'm wrong, and the website is appropriate
<Burgundavia> why not a /newusers
<Burgundavia> create a template of what you want on the wiki and we can argue about specifics of such a page
<mdke> ugh /newusers?
<Burgundavia> just an idea
<ormiret> does the url really matter?
<Burgundavia> manic creation of new resources is a common issue amongst new teams
<Burgundavia> and the idea that something technical will solve what is essentially a social issue is also
<mdke> yes, I'm aware of that
<Burgundavia> mdke: observe froud and that apache lenya thing
<mdke> there are many clear examples of that tendency
<mdke> however, I just have the feeling that a simple site might be useful
<Burgundavia> I have always wanted a more simple ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> I understand that matthew n is going to be working on just such a thing later this month/next month
<mdke> certainly it would be nice to see people contributing marketing ideas for the main website
<Burgundavia> yes. I think people see the main website as this cathedral that they cannot touch
<nixternal> i miss all of the good stuff, but consider this question, "What are the goals for Ubuntu Marketing?"
<Burgundavia> to spread ubuntu to the unwashed masses
<nixternal> heh
<Burgundavia> if you want marketing speak: To raise the profile of Ubuntu amongst target groups and increase adoption
<nixternal> see, there is not 1 defined goal anywhere for "Marketing Ubuntu", and I don't mean the goal of the Marketing Team, because right now, the team's goal and idea is totally different from various marketing aspects
* ormiret prefers the first one
<Burgundavia> part of that is to create materials for the unwashed to marketing ubuntu to the other unwashed
<Burgundavia> the other part is to argue of the first part
<nixternal> i don't see how we can propose projects and what not when there isn't a goal, let alone a "Marketing Plan" to even follow. I think there needs to be a definite "Plan" put in place, before any real marketing can take place
<Burgundavia> "welcome to the revolution comrade. Our first meeting is to define what the revolution is"
<mdke> nixternal: you were reading the list this week? there were some emails with exactly that
<Burgundavia> nixternal: now you are starting to sound like jbaer
<nixternal> no no
<mdke> exactly
<Burgundavia> what we need are discrete goals
<Burgundavia> create a pamphlet
<nixternal> that is good
<Burgundavia> improve the main website
<nixternal> there you go
<nixternal> keep going
<Burgundavia> rather than A GIANT PLAN TO END ALL PLANS
<nixternal> right now the "team" has expressed interest or goals in SU and a Magazine..i haven't see much else, except for the Fridge and what lloydhino?? is doing
<Burgundavia> umm, active projects are: Fridge, UWN and Knot release announcements
<Burgundavia> the magazine and SU are mostly in the talking phase
<Burgundavia> likely never to leave them, tbh
<nixternal> ok, the UWN if considered marketing is marketing the "community" aspect if anything
<mdke> nixternal: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2006-August/000902.html
<nixternal> but yes, all a part of marketing
<mdke> read, rinse and read again
<ormiret> take a look at the MarketingTeam page Andreas Lloyd has updates the project list
<Burgundavia> ormiret: I see that, perfect
<Burgundavia> mdke: funny how basically the entire doc team is now helping hte marketing people
<nixternal> mdke: that is great, a nice to do list of projects..and that is great...im just trying to figure out if Ubuntu Marketing is defined anywhere, and if there are plans on defining it..that is all
<Burgundavia> nixternal: definitions are constraining
<Burgundavia> marketing is very very vague
<nixternal> it is
<nixternal> true
<mdke> nixternal: dude, get away from this "what is marketing" nonsense, or we will stick a jbaer label on you
<mdke> that list of projects is an excellent start
* jenda scrolls up, and agrees with mdke - a simple, new user site is a very important thing, and SU will fill up that gap.
<nixternal> but yet everyone/every company who is involved with marketing will tell you, there is an initial plan that will change every day as the "project" evolves
<mdke> nixternal: right, so if you are employed by Canonical, you can start with that plan. UNtil then, this team is not even near an appropriate place to do that
<nixternal> i know marketing open source != marketing as well, as it is totally a different "monster" itself
<mdke> this team has some tasks, and can help loco teams, and should start getting on with them
<mdke> loads of people have ideas, it's just time to focus them in the right place
<Burgundavia> mdke: by simple, you mean one page, no?
<nixternal> mdke: thank you!  that is what i needed to know, and i think others may need to know..that could explain some of the confusion and ramblings as well on the ML
<mdke> one page, maybe 2 or 3
<mdke> yeah, I guess one page
<mdke> the sort of things I had in mind were things that tell people that Ubuntu doesn't get viruses, and comes free with loads of software, and all that jazz
<nixternal> also, i wanted to reply so bad to the email about "bug #1", believe me, i worked for the "evil giant" and they have a "bug #1" that is similar to ours, only difference is we are open, they aren't
<mdke> the sort of thing that the website might not do on the front page
<ormiret> mdke: http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop ?
<mdke> ormiret: more of a list of a few compelling reasons why people would try Ubuntu. a bit simpler than that
<mdke> a bit like Manu's http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/, except maybe better looking and simpler
<Burgundavia> that is quite a few pages
<mdke> yeah, simpler than that
<ormiret> mdke: I think that should be doable on the main site then, we just need someone to make such a page :)
<Burgundavia> ormiret: both mdke and myself can do tht
<Burgundavia> we just need a page to move there
<mdke> ormiret: maybe more biased than would be appropriate for the main site ;)
<Burgundavia> if you create one on the wiki
<ormiret> yeah, it was the writing the content that I meant
<mdke> bit of propaganda
<Burgundavia> everybody else screams how great they are from the main site
<Burgundavia> http://www.redhat.com/rhel/details/clients/
<Burgundavia> http://linspire.com/
<Burgundavia> crap, look at apple
* mdke bed
<ompaul> Burgundavia, ehhn what informs the knowledge of what has changed?
<ompaul> Burgundavia, worry wrt your mail
* ompaul stops typing
<ompaul> sorry - if you know what I am saying fine if not I will try again in a minute
<Burgundavia> ompaul: simply using edgy
<Burgundavia> edgy-changes mailing list
<Burgundavia> secret and inside knowledge
<ompaul> Burgundavia, doh! I knew there was a list missing from my list of lists
<ompaul> dapper-changes was great :)
<ompaul> it should actually be the "ubuntu+1" list and then it would never change and it could be release name after a release
<Burgundavia> usually jdub copies the names over
<Burgundavia> there is no end of real projects that need real help, right now
<jenda> Hmm...
<jenda> Yo people...
<ompaul> we got one new user yesterday at a computer fair :-) showed off a ubuntu desktop and gave away a clatter of CDs and DVDs
<jenda> Since the fridge is now very open-minded... do you guys think that it might be viable to fuse it with SU somehow?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> what do you think is still missing from the fridge?
<jenda> (I'm thinking - there are news stuck on the fridge... but what's inside? Something fresh and new for the new user - and also some deep freeze material for anyone to DL)
<jenda> But I seriously need some sleep now :)
* jenda just read the sentence "he Fridge is in the community's hands." in a ML post by matthew revell
<jenda> and that sparked the thought...
<ompaul> jenda, be careful - see that mail I put on the list we have raised expectations we really need to address them :)
<jenda> ompaul: I currently have over 200 unread mails on _that_ list.
<jenda> :(
<jenda> So it will take me a bit.
<jenda> Ah - wow! Buntudot is merging with the fridge? That is great news to me :)
<jenda> nixternal: confirm?
<nixternal> no comments
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> i believe it has, sort of
<jenda> OK
<jenda> damn - just sent several duplicated emails ML&directly... I lost the hang of it during these three weeks :(
<ompaul> jenda, most of the stuff has been sorted I suggest that you sort by thread and see if the thread has value (some of them don't and it is obvious early on ;-))
<jenda> Sorted by thread by default ;)
<jenda> (In the marketing ML directory)
<jenda> Hmm... is there any chance of moving the ubuntu counter to count.ubunt.com?
<Burgundavia> interesting idea
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-08-06
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o Burgundavia]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Burgundavia] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Keep in mind that whatever your LoCo does, any other LoCo can benefit from your work or experience! | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | Beuno is doing UWN | UWN #51 is out! UWN #52 is in progress to be released Sunday August 12th
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o Burgundavia]  by Burgundavia
<boredandblogging> do your digg duty: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Weekly_Newsletter_51
<gerr2> the posters you guys had at LinuxTag - is the art file image somewhere i can point people to? 
<juliux> gerr2, mom
<gerr2> morning julius are you well? 
<juliux> http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20Posters/
<juliux> gerr2, no realy i was at the dentist this morning
<gerr2> thank you
<juliux> there is a 18mb pdf file with the poster
<gerr2> i am going to the dentist later
<gerr2> i have most of a tooth missing
<gerr2> extraction i think
<juliux> good luck
<juliux> i am going everday this week to the dentist
<gerr2> yikes
<juliux> gerr2, we are searching for somebody from the canonical marketing team to held a talk at ubucon in germany, did you know who wants to do that?
<gerr2> well it's me or kat. what to talk about? 
<gerr2> and when is it? 
<juliux> it is the weekend after the gutsy release
<gerr2> i am looking for a german speaker to go on television 
<juliux> hehe
<gerr2> seriously. we would send holbach but he is on holiday
<juliux> it would be cool if somebody can tell something about canonical and what they are doing with ubuntu, i think most people don't know that
<juliux> i allready talked with all the german canonical employees
<juliux> but most of them have no time
<gerr2> where is it on? 
<juliux> it i in krefeld it is near to  cologne
<juliux> 30min away from cologne
<gerr2> but i would be speaking in English is this any use? 
<juliux> if you take the public transport
<juliux> english is well
<juliux> most talks are in german but everybody should understand english
<gerr2> ok. i will look at the event and get back to you this week
<gerr2> i think it should be possible
<gerr2> what about television? are you interested? 
<juliux> did you know a guy who is called Markus Oberndrfer
<juliux> depends what i have to do;)
<gerr2> well the big problem might be getting to Dusseldorf 
<gerr2> we will cover the expenses naturally
<juliux> dusseldorf is netxt to krefeld
<gerr2> but the TV show is not related
<juliux> ok
<gerr2> they want to take the top three OSes in the world (their words)
<juliux> which tv station is it?
<gerr2> gemanys  regional television nrw.tv called "Computerclub 2".
<gerr2> ever heard of it? 
<juliux> yes i know computerclub 2
<juliux> but i think it is only a radio podcast
<gerr2> or the next show  (thursday, 16th of august) were a planning a special feature about the  three mostly used os. in this 60 min. show we will discuss the features,  benefits and differences of and between ubuntu linux, ms windows and  apple os. it would be great having a canonical representative in the  studio to discuss this topics with her or him. Can you name a german  speaking person who could be our guest? The pre-recording o
<juliux> hmm sounds cool
<gerr2> it appears to be a v show. if it was podcast someone could dial in. 
<gerr2> are you interested? 
<Burgundavia> gerr2: ogra is very photogenic :)
<juliux> yes but i don't know if i have time next week
<juliux> i have to find a new flat this week in hannover
<juliux> and then i have to start my movement to hannover
<gerr2> did you get a job? 
<juliux> yes
<juliux> it is a half job;)  in england it is called trainee at the job
<juliux> but i also have to go 16weeks a year to school
<gerr2> Burgundavia: i love ogra but he looks a bit too 'Linux'
<Burgundavia> gerr2: I was being ironic
<gerr2> the smooth good looks of young julius here is much more for tv
<gerr2> Burgundavia: i know 
<Burgundavia> pitti might also make a good choice, if juliux cannot
<juliux> yes pitti is also good
<gerr2> pitti is away somewhere as well
<juliux> hmm
<juliux> is the recording at the 16th august?
<gerr2> pitti is getting married on the 17th so a good excuse
<gerr2> juliux: yes
<juliux> gerr2, Wednesday i will see more flats in hannover so Thursday i can say yes or no
<gerr2> juliux: yes would be better
<gerr2> :)
<juliux> i can't promies it
<gerr2> when can i know? i have to let the guy know tomorrow
<juliux> hmm
<juliux> i cann't say yes without a flat;9
<juliux> my boss will kill me if i say i have no flat but i am going to dusseldorf for an internview
<gerr2> is there anyone else you can think of? 
<juliux> re
<elkbuntu> gerr2, what about kwwii
<juliux_> beuno, ping
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-08-07
<gerr2> morning all
<gerr2> we've changed the front page for a day - www.ubuntu.com
<elkbuntu> excellent. i wish they'd hurry and expand it to oceania so the 'nobody cares about australia' people can shush :
<elkbuntu> gerr2, did you get my PM yesterday?
<juliux> hey gerr2 
<gerr2> elkbuntu: great story about a start up using ubuntu and getting rid of red hat 
<juliux> gerr2, www.dell.de/ubuntu is not working
<gerr2> elkbuntu: did you see it? 
<elkbuntu> gerr2, not sure?
<gerr2> juliux: read the page: available from tomorrow
<juliux> http://www.ubuntu.com/dell there stands 8th july
<juliux> www.dell.de/ubuntu (available July 8th) 
<juliux> perhaps a bug;)
<gerr2> elkbuntu: <http://digg.com/linux_unix/Telco_dumps_Red_Hat_for_Ubuntu>
<elkbuntu> gerr2, that looks familiar
* elkbuntu larts all the gecko applications for chewing resources
<elkbuntu> yeah, i had heard that
<gerr2> juliux: :-/ i can't seem to edit that page either for some reason
<gerr2> this is a little frustrasting
<gerr2> elkbuntu: i got your 
<gerr2> p
<gerr2> elkbuntu: i'll try that again. i got your PM yesterday
<elkbuntu> cool, just wanted to be sure :)
<gerr2> juliux: i take it julius your position has not changed re: dusseldorf
<juliux> gerr2, it has changed a little bit;)
<juliux> gerr2, i can go to the tv show
<juliux> but somebody should sponsor my travel costs
<gerr2> ah!! ok. yes we will pay the travel costs
<gerr2> i'll mail you of line
<juliux> ok
<gerr2> i'll PM you I mean . not sure how i would send a message offline :-[
<juliux> hehe
<gerr2> juliux: did you get my PM? 
<juliux> not yet
<gerr2> juliux: still nothing? this is a bit odd
<juliux> gerr2, i have greylisting enabled 
<juliux> gerr2, are you sure you send it? i cann't see any mail in the log file from you
<gerr2> i did not send an email
<gerr2> i tried on irc
<gerr2> i don't have your email address
<juliux> you have to register your nick on freenode
<juliux> without that i cann't read your pm on irc
<juliux> or you join #gerry ;)
<gerr2> juliux: can you just send me an email with your travel requirements julius? gerry dot carr at canonical dot com 
<juliux> yes
<juliux> so you only need the cities?
<juliux> where i start?
<juliux> gerr2, take a look at  http://www.opensourcefactory.com/cms/index.php?page=ubuntu_linux_7-04 there are no more ubuntu colors
<jenda> juliux: you can also turn on umode +6 to be able to accept PMs from unreggeds
<juliux> jenda, ahh ok
<juliux> thxs
<jenda> gerr2: but you should register ;)
<jenda> and hello :)
<juliux> jenda, did you know http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/product_info.php/info/p1332_PC-Sticker---powered-by-Ubuntu--verzerrt.html ;9
<jenda> juliux: your work? :)
<juliux> no
<jenda> they're still 3 times what mine cost ;)
<juliux> that is one of the professional shops in germany
<jenda> cool
<juliux> he sells them for 25cent
<jenda> I'm 100% sure they use it with commercial intent.
<juliux> i know
<jenda> gerr2: how does canonical deal with that? Did they ask and receive specific permission to do so?
<jenda> Not to mention they are using the name "Ubuntu Linux", which is totally counterproductive to our branding policies :(
<gerr2> jenda: i thought i had registered
<gerr2> although i seem to be gerr2 these days
<jenda> then try /nick <whateverthereggednickis>
<jenda> (gerr2 isn't registered)
<gerr2> jenda: i don't think we have approved this - we would not approve Ubuntu Linux
<jenda> indeed
<jenda> gerr2: and if they were to sell it as 'Ubuntu', would you have approved it even if it was for-profit?
<gerr2> jenda: probably but i don't know anything about these guys 
<jenda> ok
<jenda> gerr2: so, theoretically it would be possible to ask for such permission?
<gerr2> jenda: if they are a legitimate business and particularly, as they appear to be, promoting Linux then there is no conflict with them making a profit
<jenda> gerr2: I meant, for example, if I or another community member did so.
<elkbuntu> providing they're promoting the correct thing, as in Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Linux
<gerr2> jenda: permission to use the trademark? Mail trademarks@ubuntu.com and tell them what you are doing
<gerr2> jenda: and show them what you are doing
<jenda> gerr2: oh, permission to use the trademark isn't the problem - but permission to use it and make a profit in the process is a different thing, innit?
<jenda> (I mean, I've had them check every single thing I ever shipped)
<gerr2> jenda: it's a confusing area
<jenda> The thing is, I'm now pulling out of the 'business', because I can't pay myself for the time I spend doing it. I had to get a job instead.
<gerr2> jenda: example 1 - comm member sells t shirts above costs and uses money made to attend events: fine
<jenda> ok
<jenda> that's pretty much what I intended.
<elkbuntu> Even when I write about Ubuntu these days, I take specific care not to write Linux directly after Ubuntu. So rather than "the Ubuntu Linux distribution" i make sure i write "the distribution of Linux called Ubuntu"
<jenda> I mean, I have about $500 here which I made using the stuff, and it'll be used for the Czech Loco, mostly. But I might continue doing the stuff if I could use the money to attend a UDS eventually.
<gerr2> jenda: someone we don't know uses trademarks to sell t-shirts for personal gain and contributes nothing to ubuntu or linux community? not good
<jenda> mhm
<elkbuntu> gerr2, that opinion varies from person to person. some would not care so long as the brand is getting out. i believe riched is one of that stance
<jenda> gerr2: so, if I wanted to continue in the field, selling this stuff, in order to be able to afford a UDS later on, what would be the process? Ask trademarks for approval?
<jenda> elkbuntu: the trademark policy is quite clear on that, however :(
<gerr2> elkbuntu: for commercial use you need our permission
<gerr2> elkbuntu: but that's not to say we won't give it. if it is legitimate we likely will 
<jenda> gerr2: so, what's the process of asking for the permission?
<elkbuntu> i didnt read 'without asking permission' into the case, sorry
<gerr2> in principle we want people to make money out of ubuntu in order to sustain the project as long as they do it the right way
<gerr2> jenda: tell me what you want to do jenda?
<elkbuntu> one could very easily argue that brand placement is a valid contribution too
<jenda> gerr2: what I've been doing for ages :)
<jenda> gerr2: I've been selling ubuntu stickers and posters to the community for bulk prices, with very little profit
<jenda> with the proviso that I don't keep the profit.
<jenda> gerr2: but I can no longer afford to do so.
<jenda> gerr2: however, if I could keep part of the profit, I would very likely continue.
<jenda> gerr2: I've already sent out some 14000 case badges, 800 posters and some 200 other stickers.
<jenda> gerr2: here's a complete budget and other info on the 'project': https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite/Get/PriceListJenda?action=show&redirect=PriceListJenda#head-d52bd66652f2bbd8244cfe459cd68bed6460edcf
<jenda> (note: most of the actual profits are generated from tips. the prices them selves are low-margin, or even negative-margin)
<jenda> gerr2: and another point is that before the new trademark policy was in place, I frequently encouraged people to create Ubuntu swag to get the brand out there, even based the DIY marketing project around that, citing that they could make money doing so - as that would serve as a great incentive for locoteams in poorer countries, and a way for them to make money even for the locos, which is extremely difficult in poorer countries.
<jenda> (so knowing how exactly it is possible to do the same now would also be good)
<gerr2> jenda: i am aware of your activities
<gerr2> jenda: and i don't want them to stop
<gerr2> jenda: this sounds like a fairly big topic and i want to make the ground rules as clear to all as possible 
<gerr2> jenda: how about a MEETING!!!
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> sounds good :)
<jenda> My activities actually have stopped, pretty much, because of the job, but that should be just temporary.
<gerr2> gerr2: i'm serious; it feels to me that there has been a bit of a decline in the DIY marketing
<gerr2> gerr2: and we need to revive it. 
<gerr2> gerr2: also i need someone to tell me how to register a nickname
<gerr2> that can be item 1
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> you were talking to yourself there ;)
<jenda> I can help you register the nickname.
<jenda> As for DIY - I became very busy over the summer. I will pay it a lot of attention as soon as I finish my work, which _should_ be this weekend.
<elkbuntu> we get jenda back? YAY!
* elkbuntu hugs jenda 
<jenda> hehe
<gerr2> jenda: that was not a criticism - it's just that we need to spread it beyond your activities
* jenda hugs elky back
<jenda> gerr2: oh, definitely
<jenda> gerr2: I've always wanted that to happen
<jenda> gerr2: in fact, I've tried persuading several people who showed interest to take over whichever part of swag production they were most interested in, but most people chickened out in the end :)
<jenda> the only one who hasn't, so far, is juliux, and he started on his own.
<gerr2> well maybe we need to figure out a way for people to do it really easily and maybe even make some money ;)
<jenda> mhm
<jenda> I don't know how to make it easier for them, apart from offering the necessary digital material, and not obstructing their work :)
<jenda> Of course, DIY was also intended to list people who offered swag, so as to give them a basic advertising.
<gerr2> i don't know either - maybe we need to identify some people and encourage them .
<gerr2> anyway meeting? 
<gerr2> how do we guarantee a good attendance? 
<elkbuntu> gerr2, figuring out who you're targetting, for a start
<jenda> gerr2: and then sending it out on teh mailing list, and prodding specific people individually :)
<gerr2> juliux: you back online?
<juliux> gerr2, yes
<juliux> i am back from dentist
<gerr2> juliux: news on your tickets.. it's an early start fella
<juliux> np
<gerr2> i'll fire them through - they'll be paid for you will just need to pick them up in hamburg 
<gerr2> elkbuntu: i don't know who to target
<juliux> gerr2, cool
<juliux> gerr2, where should i pick them up? and where?
<elkbuntu> gerr2, you could try the LoCo contacts mailing list, but be aware that some teams will take it as an invitation to cry poor and ask canonical to fund ventures
<juliux> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<juliux> jenda, can you explain "the only one who hasn't, so far, is juliux, and he started on his own." to me
<juliux> i don't understand what you try to say;)
<jenda> juliux: you're the only one who hasn't given up, and made the shirts :)
<juliux> ahhh
<jenda> juliux: but I didn't talk you into it - you did that on your own.
<juliux> btw i think you still get money from us for the stickers
<jenda> juliux: hmm?
<juliux> jenda, as you was in dresden you gave me stickers, did you get the money for them?
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> I didn't!
<jenda> :D
<jenda> jeez
<jenda> I thought they were subtracted from the shirts, but that didn't happen in the end, did it?
<juliux> i have no idea
* beuno hides the money in his bank account in switzerland
<juliux> lol
<beuno> juliux: also, your tshirts rock!  :D
<juliux> beuno, thxs
<juliux> with the next shirts there will be a lot of things better in the organisation
<juliux> i want to use a ticketsystem so everybody can see where the shirts are
<juliux> or i will setup a webshop for that
<juliux> jenda, perhaps we can setup an ubuntu community shop, but we will write there that this is not a normal shop and everthing is not a payment it is a donation to the community;)
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> juliux, I've been working on that for the past 6 months ;)
<juliux> oscommerce is not so difficult i think
<beuno> I can do web stuff  :D
<juliux> cool
<jenda> juliux: so... it's 75 :)
<beuno> I've been bugging jenda to commit to the sticker selling, so I would setup a shop for him
<beuno> if it's a more broader thing, even better!
* jenda shrugs
<jenda> that's what DIY is supposed to be
<beuno> jenda: :X
<jenda> but I'm not capable of getting a team or person that would set it up :)
<juliux> beuno, did you tested oscommerce? 
<juliux> beuno, i am searching for something where i can track all the stuff
<beuno> juliux: yes, it's icky!
<beuno> I'll look for something better, if possible
<juliux> ok
<juliux> i also tried rt
<beuno> and jenda, clear it with Dan first, if I can take over, I'll get it done
<jenda> juliux: what do you mean by 'track'?
<jenda> juliux: no matter what you do, you'll always be dependant on your shipping company in that.
<juliux> jenda, i want to track the e-mails between me and the people who order the shirts;)
<jenda> ah
<beuno> unless he ships personally, which would have an added value!  :p
<jenda> I use gmail for that :D
<juliux> like a bugtracker
<jenda> ok
<juliux> baahhh gmail
<beuno> juliux: launchpad?  :D
<juliux> beuno, it shouldn't be open
<juliux> beuno, i think i will setup an ticket system for that
<jenda> juliux: I would definitely hate to have to go to an extra website to see the orders etc.
<jenda> but meh, I can't do anything till I finish my work :) I'm off.
<juliux> jenda, cu
<juliux> gerr2, should i book the train?
<juliux> gerr2, and is 4:42 right?
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-08-08
<tristanbob> I thought I would join this team since I have some ideas related to marketing Ubuntu :)
<jenda> tristanbob: welcome to the team, then :)
<tristanbob> thanks jenda !
<tristanbob> I just plugged this team on the planet :)
<jenda> :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-08-09
<Burgundavia> anybody around?
<juliux> morning
<Hobbsee> greetings all
<juliux> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> juliux: have you guys been asked to fix up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4 yet? 
<juliux> Hobbsee, i don't know
<juliux> i think there was something on the mailinglist
<Hobbsee> juliux: okay, can you add stuff to there, and find others to help you out if required?
<juliux> i think everybody can add stuff there;)
<Hobbsee> juliux: indeed.  hence, find the pile of "everybody" people, and get them to write please :)
<juliux> i am sorry i can't do it, i am busy at the moment with ubucon in germany
<Hobbsee> ah, darn.
<juliux> i have to search speakers
<juliux> and i have to found some sponsors
<Hobbsee> hiya mrmonday 
<mrmonday> hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> oh hooray, this doesnt blow up
<Hobbsee> mrmonday: i dont suppose your'e interested in helping write release notes?
<mrmonday> release notes for what?
<Hobbsee> tribe 4 - gutsy
<mrmonday> ooh
<mrmonday> would do...
<mrmonday> but I'm busy
<mrmonday> gotta do 2 articles for full circle
* Hobbsee sighs
<gerr2> juliux: i contacted dell for you but the lady is awat
<gerr2> away
<juliux> gerr2, ok
<juliux> gerr2, i will call them directly in germany, i found a dell communication manager and a pr manager
<juliux> gerr2, there is a replay from here;9
<juliux> her
<gerr2> juliux: i would go through whomever Caroline sets you up with 
<juliux> gerr2, yes i found a phone number from the pr men for germany
<juliux> gerr2, i think i will call him in the next days
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-08-10
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<beuno> jenda: friendly ping
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-08-11
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<jenda> What's wrong with devubuntu.com?
<juliux> jenda, it is down;)
<jenda> juliux: oh, I see!
<jenda> ;)
<juliux> jenda, i think there is no valid ipaddress in the nameserver record;)
<juliux> dig devubuntu.com @yns2.yahoo.com
<jenda> O_o
<jenda> juliux: you know that I have no idea what you're talking about, right? ;)
<juliux> there you can see the nameserver has no ip address
<juliux> jenda, open a shell and type "dig devubuntu.com @yns2.yahoo.com"
<juliux> jenda, then you can see an output like ;devubuntu.com.                 IN      A and normaly after the A comes the ipaddress for the server
<juliux> ;)
* juliux hopes that jenda knows what a server and an ip address is
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> juliux: could that mean that the domain name is expired?
<juliux> jenda, no
<jenda> s/name/registration/
<jenda> ok
<juliux> run "whois devubuntu.com" there you can see who owns the domain at the moment and when it expires
<juliux> 2008-08-10 that is the expire date
<jenda> ok :)
<jenda> thanks for the education 
<juliux> np
<juliux> you are welcome
<juliux> now your creditcard numbers pls;)
<jenda> haha
<jenda> :)
<jenda> nevah
<juliux> ok then i will send you a reception;)
<jenda> hehe
<mrmonday> full circle meeting's just started if anyone wants to come :) ( #fullcirclemagazine )
<jenda> mrmonday: I don't understand why the magazine is keeping such a distance between itself and Ubuntu.
<mrmonday> what do you mean?
<mrmonday> is it?
<ryanakca> beuno: Ok. Dillema.
<ryanakca> beuno: My mom's digital camera died.
<ryanakca> aka, I can't take a closeup...
<beuno> ryanakca: hey, oh...  
<beuno> well, it was very popular, so we should do it again
<beuno> I cn give it a try  :D
<ryanakca> beuno: *nods*
<ryanakca> beuno: Umm. Shall I just try to 'steal' a full version off the www ?
* ryanakca is sure that someone has a CC'd image of a CPU
<beuno> ryanakca: could be too!  :p
<ryanakca> there's http://www.pcpret.nl/weetjes/fotos/www9235.jpg ... but copyrighted and low quality.
<beuno> ryanakca: wikipedia?
<ryanakca> beuno: haven't found anything. I see a 166MHz... but not 200 mmx... is it permissible to include someone else's photograph, and say 'Image by foobar, 2007' ? http://komz.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/sl27j.jpg as well
<beuno> ryanakca: depends on the license
* ryanakca nods. I don't see one
<jenda> mrmonday: I mean, not having meetings in #ubuntu-meeting, for example.
<mrmonday> there's no advantage to that
<mrmonday> we have a bot that logs
<mrmonday> and more people are there even if they don't realise if we have it in our channel
<mrmonday> so can chip in anyway
<ryanakca> beuno: And I have to leave for a couple hours. Worse comes to worse, for this week I'll give them a closeup of an icon :)
<ryanakca> cheers
<beuno> ryanakca: great, thanks!
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-08-12
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<ryanakca> boredandblogging: ping
<boredandblogging> ryanakca: pong
<ryanakca> boredandblogging: ok, the owner of http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium/L_Intel-BP80503200%20PPGA%20(bottom).jpg has offered to CC it.
<boredandblogging> cool, are you going to add it to the UWN?
<ryanakca> yes, but I'm leaving for a week in 10-, so mind if I give him your email address and let you stick it on?
<ryanakca> s/10-/10-20 minutes/g
<boredandblogging> ryanakca: nope, boredand blogging @ gmail
<ryanakca> thanks
<ryanakca> boredandblogging: it's up, cheers *leaves*
<ryanakca> johnc4510: ping
<johnc4510> ryanakca: pong
<ryanakca> johnc4510: what's going on with the CPU image?
<johnc4510> ryanakca: gaa,  i just made a mistake uploading it     that's all
<ryanakca> fixed :)
<ryanakca> Cheers
<johnc4510> ty
<Gary> ummmm, does anyone know of a way I could get hold of promotional materials, like the big boxes of cd's etc plus banners?  I want to get my LUG to take part in Software Freedom Day by setting up a stand in the library
<jenda> Gary: order a conference pack from canonical.
<Gary> jenda, got a link?
<Gary> I could not find any order pack thingy
<jenda> erm
<jenda> I'd have to google :)
<jenda> Gary: first result: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences
<Gary> found it
<Gary> did not know what it was called :p
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> I googled canonical conference pack ;)
<jenda> but that might be google's storage of my personal info at work.
* jenda highfives google
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-08-04
<meoblast001> hi Flannel
<Flannel> Howdy meoblast001 
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> wouldnt it be cool if you were in #ubuntu-us-oh too?
<meoblast001> your probably not though
<meoblast001> nope
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-08-05
 * meoblast001 is away: meoaway
 * meoblast001 is away: meoaway
<beuno> meoblast001, could you disable the auto-away message please?  :)
 * meoblast001 is away: meoaway
 * meoblast001 is away: meoaway
 * meoblast001 is away: imnotaway
 * meoblast001 is away: helpimnotaway
 * meoblast001 is away: is_realy_not_away
 * meoblast001 is away: help_me_be_not_away
<meoblast001> im thinking about making a Ubuntu commerical
<meoblast001> an animated one
<meoblast001> for youtube
<meoblast001> hi jackster
<jackster> hey meoblast001 
<meoblast001> im thinking about making an animated Ubuntu commercial
<jackster> cool
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-08-07
<shahriar086> I am wondering why this channel is quite :?
<Flannel> shahriar086: because no one is talking
<shahriar086> duh!
<shahriar086> :P
<shahriar086> humm ok.. just hoping to catch up how the experts works
<shahriar086> I am still learning
<shahriar086> is there any loging for this channel??
<shahriar086> I dont think so... or is there??
<shahriar086> Flannel: ?
<Flannel> yeah, this channel is logged
<Flannel> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<shahriar086> thanks
<shahriar086> :)
<shahriar086> looks less active
<shahriar086> ;(
<JonPackard> Wow that was great.. I gave away a PC with Ubuntu on it and the Comcast (broadband internet) guy told the person I gave it to that they had to install a Windows program to get through their firewall to access the Internet.. what a load of balogna
<JonPackard> I never let Internet installation people touch my PCs.. the software they put on is garbage
<learning> humm..
<learning> what kind of softwares actually?
<learning> and my isp tells me their service is not compatible with linux :S
<learning> that is why my browsing/download speed is poor
<learning> just rubbish talk
<JonPackard> I'm going to call her back later and get her online.. I just can't believe that their service would require a Windows program to access the internet.. it's FUD
<learning> humm I am not a techie person... so I have nothing to compare to,,, but I really dont think Linux have to be supported to get decent internet service
<JonPackard> Linux doesn't connect to the internet any differently than Windows.. it's pretty much plug and play.. there's no software that's needed
<learning> I have talked to few ISP's they say that they will give me internet service for windows,, I will have to set up internet in Linux myself :S
<JonPackard> yep.. they don't train their installers on configuring internet on Linux.. although it's as simple as plugging in the Ethernet cord =X
<learning> actually these isp's knows less about linux... that's why they are afraid to give service on Linux
<learning> yes JonPackard
<learning> actually it is my choice which OS I use... and it is their responsibility to set it up internet on what ever OS my pc have
<learning> be it Linux BSD, or windows
 * learning is wondering so this is when this channel usually gets alive?? I have never found people participating
<JonPackard> Comcast wasn't telling her that they couldn't set it up for her.. they told her that she HAD to have the Windows software to connect to the Internet at all.. I strongly doubt that there's any truth to that
<learning> humm...
<hubuntu> Sometimes people talk... 
<learning> yes I get that part
<hubuntu> Anything related to u_m you want to talk about learning?
<learning> I guess people are busy spreading Ubuntu :D ??
<learning> humm hubuntu not really..
<learning> I am a marketing student.. so I visit this channel sometimes to see experts work
<learning> but most are too busy to talk :(
<hubuntu> So what you think about ubuntu marketing tactics thus far?
<learning> well nothing much.
<learning> I am from an underdeveloped country. so it is really tough over here to spread Ubuntu,
<hubuntu> Where in the world are you? I'm from an "underdeveloped" country myself
<learning> humm Bangladesh
<learning> South East Asian country
<hubuntu> I know where it is
<learning> ok. so which country you are from?
<hubuntu> Ecuador, but I live in Norway
<learning> ok
<hubuntu> So are there many users of FOSS in Bangladesh?
<learning> Yes there are...
<learning> but in major Cities only.
<hubuntu> How is your LoCo doing?
<JonPackard> sweet.. just called my friend running Ubuntu back.. they finally just plugged the modem into the computer and she was online =D
<learning> hubuntu:  they are short of volunteers
<learning> JonPackard: that is great :P
<learning> but we are trying
<learning> we are reorganizing Ubuntu-Bangladesh
<hubuntu> In my experience there are always a few members in a LoCo that are there all the time
<learning> from now on we are planning to be more on the field rather being online..
<hubuntu> Then you have the occasional members that show up in events and when needed
<learning> yes.. that is also true for us.
<hubuntu> And the people that  get interest for a short while
<learning> but organizing events are now tough in BD
<hubuntu> LoCos are mainly "Online umbrellas" for the organization of events and happenings
<learning> you were saying something hubuntu?
<learning> yes, however there are few divisions in the groups, which hurts our causes more
<learning> :(
<hubuntu> Yeah, lots of politics...
<learning> any way.. how you spread the news?
<learning> I mean the philosophy of FOSS?
<hubuntu> While giving support online and organizing events
<hubuntu> Funding some activities as well (when and if I can, of course)
<learning> yes. Currently we are organizing three functions in the coming months..
<learning> all at leading universities..
<hubuntu> A good idea is to have working groups within the LoCo
<hubuntu> Students are always good supporters with relatively plenty of time
<learning> yes they are..
<learning> how you get positive responses from organizations?
<hubuntu> Well, it varies a lot
<JonPackard> Nice talking with you, ï»¿learning. Have a nice day. Good luck with your marketing studies. :)
<hubuntu> The main idea is to have a plaan and show a good and active community
<learning> I mean we talk to these leading peoples in the unis and offices, they shows plenty of interests initially but when it is required they just say they are unable to support us
<learning> Thank you JonPackard
<learning> which is really problem for us. since we put lots of effort into convincing these people
<tyche> Don't be discouraged.  Part of the problem with Linux is the very fact that Microsoft has been there ahead of us, and has had time to spread their FUD.
<learning> yes. but I dont really think that is much of a problem
<tyche> It's nice to make big changes.  But sometimes one has to make little changes first - one person at a time.
<learning> you see we have really good example in our country with other technological sectors
<hubuntu> Unis need serious people doing the contacting job. In Ecuador it works better when 'core members' do the talk
<hubuntu> And make compromises and show seriousness
<learning> yes. but serious 'core members' are actually not that much interest in doing that
<learning> :(
<learning> they are too busy with their professional works recently
<learning> its really tough to balance professional projects and personal projects
<hubuntu> Well... That can always be an issue
<learning> as you see I am really not the right person to make this contacts. (after all who will trust an immature person and make serious commitment right??)
<tyche> One way that even a non-techie can make a difference is by talking about one's experiences and handing out disks.
<learning> yes yes.. of course. we do that
<learning> btw can you show me a good place to find ubuntu related resources ?? (I mean tutorials and quick guides.) I know about Ubuntuforums just looking for more organized form
<tyche> Put on release parties and invite outsiders to them.  Put on install-fests and invite semi-interested people.  Show them what Linux and Ubuntu is, and let them interest themselves.  Help them to install, and be supportive (such as IRC) for when they run into trouble.
<learning> yes.
<learning> we are becoming more active now. we organized hardy  release party this time
<hubuntu> Well I am the contact member for the Ecuadorian Team, but live in Norway... So it is of course easier to tell what I see and hear, than what I do
<learning> also looking to have Free Software day celebration
<learning> + intrepid release party
<tyche> Good for you.
<tyche> One resource is psychocats:  http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/
<learning> but there is one problem. this time of the year most of the people fasts (Ramdan month- Majority is Muslim)  so enthusiasm is low
<learning> Besides Bangladesh is very humid country
<learning> we were planning to organize a field infofest .. but had decide against it
<learning> :(
<learning> thanks tyche
<learning> checking
<tyche> Main link to the site is http://www.psychocats.net/
<tyche> My bookmarks aren't very well organized.
<hubuntu> Good luck with marketing of FLOSS and Ubuntu in Bangladesh
<tyche> Also, there's the UWN https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue102
<hubuntu> :)
<learning> yes I am aware of UWN
<tyche> You can see what other people are doing, and even get in contact with them and ask for help.
<tyche> I'm afraid I kinda push that one a bit, since I'm part of the volunteer staff for it.
<learning> yes. we can. But politics and grouping is hampering
<learning> there are 5 separate groups working in my city alone. let alone other cities
<tyche> That's always a problem.  Cliques are hard to break into
<tyche> By separate groups, you mean like Linux User Groups (LUGS)?
<learning> yes
<learning> Most of them works separately,
<tyche> OK, one thing we're trying, with some success, in Arizona is to work with them.
<learning> ok listening
<learning> the only problem for us working with them is differences in ideology
<tyche> We invited a local LUG to join in an install fest we had, and that was a success.  That's lead to our working together on an open source conference set for September 20
<tyche> The differences in ideology disappear when one doesn't just stress ONE distribution or license, or whatever.
<learning> they have taken FOSS as a mean to be their livelihood. i mean they sell FOSS to survive.
<learning> How can a LUG claim Ubuntu is their product?
<tyche> In that regard, we've got it lucky.  We already had the attitude that it didn't matter what distrubution a person was running, we'd invite them into the channel and try to help.
<hubuntu> The Nicaraguan Team is extremely good at that (meaning cooperation of LUGs and different groups) and they have really gone far.. They even have a tv show
<tyche> With FLOSS, the product is service.  The software, since it can be picked up for free, really doesn't have a price.
<hubuntu> And the work as a gnu/linux group
<hubuntu> *They
<learning> Besides if we organize a function we will try to make it open for all right?. why charge the attendants fees?
<hubuntu> No fees should ever be necessary
<learning> yes that is the point
<tyche> Some things have to be paid for somehow.  Catering - insurance on the program, things like that.  Either they have to be paid for by the group(s) or by the attendees
<learning> yes tyche but it should have a limit
<tyche> We're trying to do it on the free basis, ourselves, and it IS difficult.
<learning> 1000 TK for one day 2 hour function is a bit too high dont you think?
<tyche> And since this is our first time out, we're having to stumble through as we find new difficulties.
<learning> yes
<tyche> Well, I don't know that 1000TK translates to, but I'd say "yes"
<tyche> That's high.
<learning> he he..
<hubuntu> Trying to get sponsors is always a good idea.. But again it takes time and contacts
<learning> yes
<learning> its a combination of all
<learning> ok can I ask for your guidelines?
<tyche> At this point, I'm not sure we have any.  it's more like semi-organized chaos.  Afterward, we might be able to sort it out into a better guide for ourselves and others.
<learning> ok
<tyche> We're still trying to find out what works, ourselves.
<hubuntu> In Norway we try to get sponsors directly, but not as a loco, rather as FLOSS entusiast together with other entusiasts
<learning> humm if politics were not in the groups it would have certainly helped us more
<learning> think of 5 LUG groups working as one
<hubuntu> In Ecuador the financing is by members in a per event basis and some companies (usually affiliated to members or other FLOSS entusiast)
<tyche> yea, we "stepped on a stair that wasn't there" with that one.  We expected the rivalry, and there wasn't any.
<learning> you are lucky then tyche
<hubuntu> Think of an Ubuntu LoCo as an umbrella organization, the Fedora guys doing the same and we all cooperating
<hubuntu> That would be great as a global strategi
<tyche> Yea, Ubuntu, Fedora/RedHat, Debian, BSD.  We've got them all.
<hubuntu> *Strategy
<learning> in here you see a person from one LUG group cant be member of another LUG group
<hubuntu> Of course all of the FLOSS ecosystem
<learning> most people are working with ego sense. one cant see another
<learning> Yes we have fedora Bangladesh with us
<hubuntu> If we could cooperate at a marketing level, then synchronization of our releases would be more natural
<tyche> That's Mark's theme, hubuntu.  Hee hee
<learning> well actually the problem for us is 1) there are less volunteers 2) the people who are interested to work are nontechie 3) there are less people who have the technical know how to help other out
<learning> its not hard really to get other use Linux, but its hard to give them support
<hubuntu> Yes, but the marketing effort is easier to achieve than the technical release synch
<tyche> You're not alone in that.  We have nearly 100 members "on paper".  In reality, we have maybe a handful of people that actually help out with events.
<learning> humm... to tell the truth we are only 5 member group
<hubuntu> Same here, over 100 on paper... Under events just a few step up
<learning> literally ... others are just sleeping
<tyche> Good way of describing it.
<hubuntu> Ubuntu-ec is a 3-10 member group
<learning> humm..
<hubuntu> ubuntu-no the same
<learning> how you manage to organize a infofest?
<tyche> Ubuntu-us-az is effectively the same.
<hubuntu> But in the list and the site there hundreds registered
<learning> its hard to get it all organized
<learning> different people have different time schedule
<learning> so coordination is a problem
<tyche> I did a release party in Phoenix.  There were 2 of us that put it on, and about 12  people that showed up for the party.  Some of them became semi-active members, meaning that they are in channel sometimes, and help out when they are.
<learning> hardy release party took us more than a month to get it organize
<tyche> The install-fest was much the same way.
<learning> well tyche we are lucky then
<learning> we had 65 attanding
<tyche> You did that release party in very short time, then.
<tyche> Yes, you are lucky.  That's good!
<learning> yes we could have done better
<learning> only problem was that even though we planned for months there were still many lapses
<tyche> We all could.  We just do the best we can - one event to the next, and learn as we go.
<hubuntu> In our events we always manage to get 10_15 people helping.. Last time we had hundred people coming (from the average 20-30)
<learning> hopefully we will manage to cover them up in the next function
<hubuntu> We did the best out of it
<hubuntu> Im glad we have wubi now
<learning> ahh.. to tell the truth? only one worked to organize the release party
<tyche> Advertising is a key factor to getting people to attend events.  That's one place where we know we've fallen down in the past.
<learning> Russell John worked worked for weeks to organize it. and we are grateful to him
<learning> but he must start cooperating with others
<learning> we wanted to help, he said he will manage everything,
<hubuntu> There it comes the need for democracy at the organizatory level
<learning> I even did not know who are the speakers (or how many)
<hubuntu> A somehow elected or meritocratically chosen group for different tasks
<learning> ohh yes
<learning> but we dont have that large group to have a democratic selection
<learning> I have mentioned that its only 5 member groups, only Russell John is experience enough to work on it
<hubuntu> Then meritocracy or interest based positions should be good enough
<learning> This is the first time I arranged a release party, so had no prior experience to work
<hubuntu> Rusell can be in all groups, but at the end of the day cooperation must emerge
<learning> yes hubuntu
<hubuntu> It will push itself I gues..
<learning> well hopefully we will manage this things out the next time
<learning> we have talked with him about cooperation
<hubuntu> Ok guys one question off-topic
<learning> ok
<learning> another major problem for us is that we cant request free CDs on large quantity
<hubuntu> If you where to put everything you have related to marketing (material, guides, artwork, papers) that you or your LoCo has created or changed (or that you have come across for that matter and is not related to your LoCo but can be shared) would you like to post it in the teams page or in a centralized page?
<hubuntu> Same problem here learning... Just order up to 40 CDs and it should be ok
<tyche> hubuntu: Now you're talking like a marketing droid.  Hee hee
<learning> well hubuntu it depends
<tyche> Reality?  It needs to be a central resource.
<learning> we have two sites now..
<hubuntu> It could get centralized with a "collecting module"
<tyche> learning: We did the last one on home-burned CDs
<learning> tyche: we also did that
<hubuntu> Takes a lot of work, but it can be done
<learning> but the problem was we requested and recieved 400 cds
<tyche> One of the functions (that I see) of marketing is to go out and see what is adaptable, what can be used as a template for something else, and what can be used directly.
<learning> gov charged us 40,000TK
<learning> which is out ragious
<hubuntu> Govs are good at that
<tyche> For example, hubuntu, see http://www.flickr.com/photos/22090195@N03/
<learning> the shipment is now getting rotten at the depo
<tyche> We took the idea from what the team leader saw Colorado LoCo do.
<tyche> At least the top 4 wallpapers.  Ignore the rest.
<tyche> learning: out of curiosity, on what basis did the government charge you that much?
<learning> tyche:  each cd costing 200 tk
<learning> while we can burn them 15 tk
<tyche> But the CDs cost nothing.  That's what I can't understand.
<learning> 70 tk = 1 Dollar
<learning> tyche: yes. but current govt is charging tax and customs on everything
<learning> if a bee gets in the country that bee have to pay tax :o
<learning> seriously
<learning> the custom guy told us that
<tyche> I believe you.  And it is outrageous.
<tyche> That sounds more like a scam.  Perhaps it should be publicized, so as to shame the government for it's behavior.
<hubunt1> What did the guy told you?
<hubunt1> That is getting rotten?
<learning> yes
<learning> we dumped the consignment... we dont have that much of fund to get it released hubunt
<hubunt1> We had the same problem in Ecuador
<hubunt1> We can't just show up with 100dollars
<learning> tyche:  any kind of public criticism against govt is illegal in our country
<tyche> You don't have a government, then.  You have a gang.
<tyche> Sorry, I shouldn't disparage your country.  That's improper of me.
<tyche> But I really hate seeing people taken advantage of.
<learning> ahh no tyche
<hubunt1> Wow... Without critical voices there's no room for healthy discussions and different opinions 
<learning> actually funny thing is we support present govt
<learning> :P
<learning> they are way better than the previous ones
<learning> can you imagine Military-Backed govt. taking over and not a single voiced heard??
<tyche> Well, your point of view is closer to the subject than mine is.  And I'm sure that it's valid.  Remember, that I'm at a disadvantage, here, in not knowing as much about it as you do.
<learning> yes ofcource tyche
<tyche> Yes, actually I can understand that.  Especially since what has happened in this country in the past 7 years.
<learning> :P
<learning> sorry. for that
<tyche> But that's politics, and I won't get into it here, since the problem is how to help you.
<learning> yes yes
<learning> politics aside
<tyche> Is there any way to holler for help outside your country?  To get volunteer funds to you to release the disks?
<learning> the thing is now we provide distros by ourselves
<learning> holler?
<tyche> Ask
<learning> sorry did not get that part
<tyche> Ask outsiders for help
<learning> tyche:  that would be nice
<learning> but we dont want to make it an international issue
<tyche> I'm not sure that it has to be an international issue.  Just a "person to person" issue.
<tyche> People helping people.
<learning> its an embarrassement for our country
<learning> tyche: we actually dont want to do so...
<learning> because its off no use anymore
<tyche> I understand.  And I've seen it in this country, where being in need feel embarrassed about it.
<hubunt1> Why not? It would help to get out 400 cds
<learning> hubunt1: see it in point of feasibility. opportunity
<learning> I can get 400 cds out with 40000 tk
<hubunt1> Is it 8.04?
<learning> and can burn 2666.6  cds with 40000 tk at the rate of 15 tk
<learning> yes hubunt1
<hubunt1> Oh, but marketing wise the CDs with covers do wonders
<learning> it costs us around 40 tk with all the levelings and such
<hubunt1> But again.. I see your point ;)
<learning> so still 1000 copies
<learning> thank you hubunt1
<tyche> So do I see the point.
<learning> yes that is another reason we did not pursue it much
<learning> *main reason
<tyche> Value for money is always a convincing factor.
<learning> he he tyche now can you manage us 40000 tk//??
<learning> for home burning purpose :P
<learning> its around $571
<tyche> I'm an old, retired man.  Where would I come up with so much?  I would have to save up my allowance for 6 to 8 months to manage that.
<hubunt1> That's a lot for 571...
<learning> he he :P tyche
<learning> hubunt1: what?
<tyche> But I could chip in $20.  And if enough others could, then you'd make that goal
<learning> yes tyche
<learning> but that is not what we want
<tyche> learning: I don't think that hubunt1 realizes that I really AM an old, retired man.  Hee hee
<learning> then other will brand us as money making opportunist
<tyche> See https://launchpad.net/~tyche for proof.
<learning> my Father was in BAF
<hubunt1> I meant that 571 dollars is a lot for 400 cds
<learning> ahh yes hubunt1
<hubunt1> My thougths went faster than myh fingers
<tyche> Yea, it's nearly $1.50 per disk.
<learning> so now you get it
<learning> and inhouse we can burn/level/package cds with less than 50 cents
<tyche> Yep
<tyche> All it takes is your time and energy.
<learning> that is not much tyche because it is worth the time and effort
<learning> tyche:  I like the story behind your nick :)
<tyche> Yep.  She's always with me, even though she found her "doorway into summer" years ago.
<learning> ok :)
<learning> tyche: we all have a bit of moments in our heart about our beloved one. be it family or friends or pet
<tyche> And I agree, that it's worth the time and effort.  I picked up a spindle of 100 disks for about $12, and burn them off in batches of 10 for installfests and the like.
<learning> yes tyche
<tyche> I even got a batch of the mini-jewel cases (half the thickness) to put them in.  It still didn't cost me $0.50 apiece for them.
<tyche> Just my time and energy.  and since I'm retired, I can afford to do that.
<learning> :(
<learning> humm...
<learning> the only drawback is my writer is broken :(
<learning> need to replace it, cant manage the fund
<tyche> One thing to stress in marketing is "what do people use a computer for?"  Most people use it to connect to the web, for email, maybe for music or videos.  Some for word processing or spreadsheets or presentations.  Ubuntu has all that on a LiveCD, and you can show it to them.
<learning> humm being a student has some drawback :(
<learning> I cant find a job :(
<learning> yes tyche
<tyche> learning: believe me, I know THAT feeling well.  Despite being American, I'm not a rich person.  And I've had trouble finding work all my life.  At least work that paid well.
<learning> only problem?? some minor adjustments
<learning> humm tyche
<tyche> We've struggled along, my wife and I.  Even been through bankruptcy.  But we continue to strive.
<learning> from my personal experience, the codecs needed to be included in the cd
<tyche> If they can connect to the web, the codecs are in the repos.
<learning> ahh.. that is nice that you have not given up
<learning> yes tyche
<learning> but many dont have decent connection
<learning> tyche:  guess my net speed
<tyche> That is a problem.  But even so, it's more of a chance for them than having to try to save up for a Microsoft operating system.
<learning> ahh tyche
<tyche> And there, all you GET is the operating system.  You have to pay again for word processing, etc.
<learning> Bangladesh is no 1 in piracy
<learning> in asia
<learning> and second in the whole world
<learning> you cant find original windows in BD
<tyche> With a pirate copy, you are at the mercy of whoever burned it.  Does it include viruses, trojans, worms, etc.
<learning> even if you are willing to pay
<learning> yes..
<learning> but many dont understands these facts
<tyche> If it does, (and I would bet that it does) then that computer is no longer your own.  It belongs to whoever is using it to distribute more viruses, etc.
<learning> hmm.
<learning> this are philosophical understanding
<tyche> I see the wheels spinning, and the gears meshing.  Hee hee
<learning> like many wont understand the open source philosophy
<tyche> Yes, and I'm a philosopher.
<learning> he he
<learning> I believe in it.
<tyche> They can understand free instead of cost.  They can understand "sweat equity" - where something is paid for in work rather than in money.
<learning> so I work
<learning> humm.. tyche
<tyche> (Actually, I AM a philosopher.  I have a bachelor's degree in philosophy)
<learning> really my friends and parents call me crazy for working in open source cause
<tyche> Or, as I choose to term it, a B.A. in BS
<learning> :)
<learning> they expect something in return
<learning> if I work for my pleasure they dont get it
<tyche> It's your time, and your energy.  You can spend them as YOU wish, or you can spend them at someone else's orders.  But then THEY benefit.
<learning> yes tyche
<learning> but there is little problem
<learning> its not our tradition :(
<tyche> I've had enough jobs where I had to work to someone else's orders.  What I do in my time is my business.
<tyche> Is it your tradition to help those in need?  And yes, that one is hitting below the belt.
<learning> sometimes culture comes in the way (even though I dont believe in those, and I hate them)
<tyche> I agree.  I've seen culture obstruct progress for too long, even here in America
<learning> humm tyche if I truely think of helping the needy?
<learning> then I should not focus on computer
<learning> I should work curve the proverty
<tyche> Are you sure of that?  Every step that one takes toward freedom is a step away from poverty - a step towards enabling others.
<learning> 60% people earns less than $10
<learning> so they dont have the mean to have computer
<tyche> I believe it.
<learning> perhaps tyche
<learning> I am still not that matured to understand that
<tyche> Yes, and I'm talking from outside your culture and environment, so I may know nothing about it.
<learning> no its ok tyche
<tyche> We each see things from our own point of view.
<learning> yes we do
<learning> like we have perception that westerners have a easy life, easy funding
<tyche> And I'm not out to sell you anything, even ideas.  If something I say helps you in ANY way, and not just in computing or with Linux or FLOSS, then that's something.
<learning> but I am sure it is not true
<tyche> Believe me, that's only really true for the top 10% of the population.
<learning> tyche: please be free of any thoughts about offending me
<tyche> It's just that they're most visible.
<learning> I dont get offended so easily..
<learning> I am open to listen other's opinion
<tyche> I'm glad of that.  Because I truly do not mean any offense.
<learning> :)
<tyche> I tend to be too direct in my talking (and typing).  And some people DO find that offensive.
<learning> ahh I am direct person
<learning> sometimes it is a problem (I faced it myself)
<tyche> Yes, and you've taught me more about your culture and environment than I knew before because of that directness.  So I'm grateful.
<learning> ahh tyche then I think you have wrong perception about our country
<learning> :(
<learning> because i have not talked anything positive about my country
<learning> (though I love it in every way)
<tyche> Not really.  It sounds like much of your country is like much of mine. . . struggling to just get along.  Anyone can say the good things about their country.  It takes understanding to recognize the things that are less than perfect, and STILL love one's country.
<learning> :)
<learning> thanks
<tyche> That you feel the way you do is a credit to you.
<learning> what I love most about my country?? the dedication of the people... if people believe something they are ready to give their lives for it
<tyche> It demonstrates a maturity beyond what most people achieve in their entire lifetime.
<learning> ?
<tyche> Most people can't take in the entire spectrum of what their culture, environment, etc. that makes up their country.  So they only listen to what others of their group say, and only believe that.
<tyche> Sometimes, it's right.  Most times, it has errors in its thinking that they'll never discover, because they don't understand themselves.
<hubunt1> I believe everybody can, and at some level do take the spectrum of what means to be human
<hubunt1> Which does not mean that it is easily explainable in a logical-discursive framework ;)
<tyche> That they can, I will agree.  That they do is in question.  There are too many out there that want to control the way people think
<tyche> Oh, I QUITE agree with THAT!  LOL
<hubunt1> BA in Philosophy here too ;)
<tyche> hubunt1: Oh, you poor guy.  Hee hee
<tyche> You're as warped as I am.
<learning> ahh then philosophy helps marketing :)
<learning> but I wanted to study psychology :(
<tyche> Well, philosophy helps with BSing.
<hubunt1> Studied a bit of marketing too.. FWIW
<hubunt1> And worked in sales, which helps way more than theory
<tyche> I've taken some psychology, too.  Also sociology, history, anthropology, literature, music.  At the time, I was studying to become a minister.
<learning> :)
<learning> I am only marketing
<learning> yet to finish
<tyche> The thing with marketing is to find out what people want, then "sell" it to them.
<hubunt1> I took some IT related subjectas too... Minister as in a Department or as in Church?
<tyche> As in Church.
<learning> I think church
<learning> see :P
<tyche> And that, too, has its marketing.  Hee hee
<tyche> I didn't make it.  I ran out of money, first.
<hubunt1> True
<learning> seems I am the youngest, and immatured of you
<tyche> One way of looking at it is that we have lived the same amount of time:  All our lives.
<tyche> What differs is the experiences we've had.
<tyche> Some people have more experiences in 11 years than others do in 30 or 40
<learning> ahh.
<learning> that is actually what I meant in the tradition way
<tyche> Oh?
<learning> our tradition is family guides what we do
<learning> so we dont have much liberty to explore the posibilities
<tyche> Yes, I grew up that way.  Then I broke free of it.
<learning> when is the first time you were free?
<tyche> I had to.  I was an introvert, and unable to function in the "outside" world.
<learning> we get freedom at the age of 30
<tyche> I decided I didn't want to be that way when I was 19, and in the Air Force.
<learning> humm tyche I am still an introvert
<learning> but changing
<tyche> You're doing better than I could have when I was one.
<tyche> I had to tear down my entire personality and put it back together.  And I had no one to help.
<learning> I am in this arena (lnux/opensource/online) for about a year
<learning> humm tyche I am more free online
<learning> I am very introvert inperson
<learning> but I am changing myself
<tyche> I didn't have that, then.  That was back in the early 1960's.  However, every step, even if it's not in person, helps to overcome that introversion.
<learning> yes tyche true
<learning> I am sure it was hard for you to change to cope with the situation
<learning> I was in the cadet, but had to left it
<learning> in the last year :(
<learning> sorry for my language... please pardon the spelling and grammatical errors
<tyche> It took some time for me to make the change.  I was 25 before the groundwork was fully laid.  Then it was a long time afterward before I actually became comfortable with the changes.  There are still elements of socialization that I can't handle.
<tyche> learning: You're doing fine.  I can understand what you're saying.
<learning> humm..
<learning> hubunt1: I see your name on spreadubuntu.
<learning> can you explain what it is about
<learning> I mean I know what it is, but how?
<tyche> learning: I don't think he's ignoring you.  I think he's got connection problems.
<learning> ahh not about ignoring
<learning> he might be busy with work
<tyche> That, too.
<learning> :)
<tyche> Here's their wiki page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu
<learning> I have seen it before
<learning> just it seems dead (no offence)
<tyche> Well, it's one reason that I'm not in this channel very often.  The marketing team just didn't seem to be going anyplace.  Or at least not any place that I wanted to go.
<learning> humm..
<tyche> I dropped in earlier to see if hubuntu was here, to ask him about something he asked me to include in the UWN.
<learning> ohh ok
<learning> I dont know much about the inner works.
<tyche> I just hadn't left the channel.  Too busy working on the teasers in the UWN.  Then I noticed the tab flashing, and took a look, and there you were.
<learning> ahh.
<learning> thanks for being here :)
<learning> I tell what I see and understand. and yes Ubuntu-marketing seems lost, no guideline
<tyche> And part of the whole way that #ubuntu-us-az handles itself is to try to find solutions for people's problems.
<learning> perhaps those who are directly involved understands better
<tyche> I would hope so.
<aflake> I just joined the marketing team today, don't say that!
<tyche> But I feel that I'm doing more within my LoCo and the UWN than I could here.
<learning> aflake: I am saying on part of 3rd person view
<tyche> aflake: Then maybe you can make a difference.  :-D
<aflake> Care for a suggestion?
<tyche> I'm always open to suggestions.  Sometimes I even use them.
<tyche> Hee hee
<aflake> As a writer I wuld suggest each local do it's own marketing as much as possible. THen the global approach would simply follow the leads the LoCo's develop that work.
<aflake> Saves time, money, effort, and everything is proven on a smaller scale.
<learning> aflake: that is true, however there should be a guideline
<aflake> Marketing and copywriting writing, direct response, is how I make my living now.
<tyche> I think, basically, you and I are saying the same things.  Find what works, use it, then put it out for others to use, modify, use as a generic template, etc.
<aflake> THe guidelines should be those embraced by the ubuntu philosophy, or it is dead duck to others.
<learning> I mean, just saying have a release party, install fest, spread the news, 
<learning> is not enough
<tyche> Yes, that goes without saying.  Or should I say that it was the primary premis.
<learning> I mean what about the people who are not expart
<aflake> No that is not enough. Follow up and demos are critical.
<learning> yes yes aflake
<aflake> No one is born an expert, I have used Linux for all of 3 months!
<tyche> That's where the template comes in handy.  It acts as a guide that one can use or modify to suit the situation.
<learning> we failed to get into the first step
<aflake> simplicity will always rule
<learning> for the past one year we managed to have only one release party
<tyche> That, too, is true
<learning> humm, not sure about that
<aflake> There are many venues to expose people and businesses to ubuntu, use them at a grass roots level and grow from that foundation
<tyche> learning: That's a start.  it takes time to build up a team.
<learning> aflake: what we see as a marketing effort it seems to easy, but when it is too be done we face problem
<learning> and there is no way to get help
<learning> no guideline, opinions
<learning> marketing is just not about spreading the news, its also an art of convincing other people what you believe
<learning> make them believe
<tyche> At this point, without a strong Marketing Team to act as a resource, your best bet is to talk to teams that have had successes, and find out answers there.
<learning> then they will buy your product
<aflake> Write your own guidelines for each local, as long as they embrace the basic philosophy then who cares. Make it workable.
<learning> humm aflake that is a problem, 'Make' it workable is not easy
<aflake> Marketing is easy unless you choose to make it hard.
<learning> perhaps we are not cut out for it may be the situation is not favourable
<aflake> Work on the LoCo level first, grow from there
<learning> yes I am on the loco team aflake
<learning> I am the second person in charge
<aflake> Everything starts at home, if each person here got 1 convert a week, how large would this place be in a year?
<learning> it will be huge amount undoubtedly
<aflake> Success breeds success, confusion leads to even more. 
<learning> however we did a simple survery,
<learning> not much to say
<learning> yes aflake
<learning> we tried, are trying, and will keep trying
<aflake> surveys are good for the takers but in reality mean little, the questions are always based on what if's, instead market with what is!
<learning> ahh.. humm
<learning> listening
<aflake> This is what I do for a living, not as a hobby or sideline, if I can help let me know.
<learning> ok then, what I have been in trouble is that we might convince people initially how to follow it up?
<aflake> I am a member of the Florida Loco, just joined this week too. ANd I am a testement to linux and ubuntu.
<learning> ok since you are a marketing person give me some tips?
<aflake> You have your web presence, use it. Make calls if they take a cd, meet at Starbucks for coffee, anything to help you press the palm and make eye contact. Try direct mail if you get their address. Have an article written in a newspaper.
<aflake> Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, SCORE< Chambers of Commerce, Business courses at college level, 4h's, and the list goes on...
<learning> 1) their are some experts in the community who have profound knowledge but they prefer remaining in backdrop
<learning> we need to bring them out
<aflake> Let them be the hidden resources and the knowledge bank then.
<aflake> No first you must get attention and be noticed as valuable, then bring them out.
<learning> humm yes
<aflake> DO not scare people away with techno-jargon... leada them in and step by step educate them.
<learning> yes of course
<aflake> All marketing is a step by step process.
<learning> we actually are not stuck in the first stage
<learning> its the second stage we are stuck
<learning> following up is a problem for us
<aflake> The world is there, and I am working on several individuals here where I live now. And I "ain't no guru" either.
<learning> like we get formal understanding with organizations that they will cooperate with us
<learning> but when we need their support they back of
<learning> then I have seen people being interested a lot, but their interest just dies down after a while
<aflake> Get email addys, snail mail address, etc, and follow up with a simple email or letter. If they take a cd call and ask how they liked it and if they have any questions. It is up to  you to follow up.
<learning> we have our forum, our channels
<learning> but it does not help much
<learning> only the loco members are there
<aflake> If others back off then call them on it in irc or whaqt ever. Often praise does wonders too.
<learning> :)
<learning> yes,
<learning> I wish you could understand Bengali
<learning> then I could have shown the works we are doing
<learning> then you could have understand what it is.
<aflake> Find out why it isn't helping much. Exactly why too. A nebulous it isn't helping much is not worth much. Clarity of purpose is required.
<learning> people are interested, no doubt about it
<learning> aflake: its tough to have understanding why its not working
<aflake> THen use that interest. Have a question and answer night, then if you do not know the answers promise to get back to them at a later date. A perfect time for names and numbers too!
<learning> for example "A" have given us promise to hold a workshop on next saturday, we informed all our members, and we are verge of announcing it to the mass
<learning> then "A" calls and says we are sorry we wont be available for next 3 months
<aflake> THen you are stuck at that point, but what was plan B?
<learning> we had similar experience in all side
<learning> plan B also failed
<learning> plan C too
<learning> it seems luck is not favouring
<aflake> than play ball in the parking lot and turn it into a joke. But do not let it drop!
<learning> ?
<learning> have I angered you any way?
<learning> we were working on three Universities at a time
<aflake> never let a failure cause a failure, if the people are there do something or go somewhere, but you have them at that time so use what you can to make it a success.
<learning> and another ISP to sponsor us
<aflake> No one has angered me! 
<learning> ohh ok
<learning> they just backed out at a time
<learning> now we are stuck with nothing
<aflake> You may be trying to have events that aqre too large at first. Remember, keep it simple and if that means small then it means small. 5 alone would be great if 3 joined up!
<learning> yes
<learning> I know
<aflake> actually if only 1 did, a 20% success ratio is wonderful
<learning> but it does not take much to give us an auditorium for 3 hour for one day
<learning> and we would have done the rest
<learning> and in the sponsor's case we wanted a room
<aflake> So meet for coffee and donuts, anything! Just meet people and start small. THe world's largest marketing plan starts with an individual customer.
<learning> BTW versity auditorium is open for all
<learning> humm yes,
<learning> it is going on
<learning> there is no doubt about
<learning> *it
<aflake> You do not need or want large gatherings at first. You want to provide the ubuntu philosophy up close and personal.
<learning> we are working on individual level, not stopping on that
<learning> there are lots of people just waiting to grab a chance
<aflake> then work with 5 individuals at once, then 10, then 15. Again if everyone here did that what would happen.
<learning> we cant just get to all of them personally
<aflake> develop the material you need. A good brochure, and FAQ paper, etc, and hand them out.
<learning> I know you are saying about chain reaction
<learning> we are doing that
<learning> aflake: I think I failed to make you understand what I need
<aflake> \learn to empower others to help you. that is what real marketing is, generate interest and they will seek you out.
<learning> people are aware about linux
<aflake> what do you need exactly learning.
<learning> many are enthusiast about it, but they are not aware of how to help other
<learning> make our presence be hard
<aflake> then start a training class to teach them how.
<learning> *heard
<learning> he he
<aflake> start small and soon many will hear if the experience was fun
<learning> are you serious?
<learning> where we start...
<learning> we can start but following up is a problem
<aflake> yep, as a heart attack. Find someone that likes linux and is personable, use them
<learning> we are using
<learning> :)
<aflake> if you can't follow up don't start, that will leave a bad impression on others.
<learning> ohh ok
<learning> I mean people are there to help,
<learning> some helps, but fades away
<aflake> only work with the number you can handle, time and success will let growth take place.
<learning> I am not saying that volunteers are to be there always
<learning> but if they left then some other people should come into their position
<learning> that is a lacking
<aflake> if you hav a solid group of 3 then you can educate several at a time
<learning> you give much of a time after one person, then they left
<learning> its hard really
<aflake> think small scale at first!
<aflake> then do it alone and work with 3, but slowly the help will be there and probably from those you took the time to help first.
<learning> ok
<learning> :)
<aflake> this isn't rocket science, we aren't going to the moon, we just want to get it off the launchpad for now!
<aflake> the moon comes later!
<learning> L)
<learning> yes hopefully
<learning> we are working, just need some more active guys
<learning> there are only three people active
<aflake> if every LoCo did it's thing and got 2 new members a month the word of mouth would be wonderful, if the experience was fun.
<aflake> if I can help let me know. 
<learning> ohh ok I will inform you :)
<learning> but not about online help though ;)
<learning> we need people in person
<aflake> case studies, press releases, ads with your local Chambers and businsess, etc... use them all
<learning> humm explain this bit please
<learning> how to make sponsors interested
<learning> (not in terms of money but in terms of facilities- place, time, logistics)
<aflake> news item work, and a well written press release appears to be news. Businesses are always looking for a better way, people are always curious, use those traits to your benefit.
<learning> if we can make organizers interested we can surely stirve
<learning> last release party attracted 65 people with 5 volunteers
<aflake> if you must use a small meeting room in a church or library then use it. 5 small meetinga are better than 1 large one that never happened.
<learning> so what we need is space and opportunity
<learning> ahh yes
<aflake> remember small and spread out over time will probably be more efficent than 1 big bash
<learning> yes
<learning> we are trying actually
<learning> coffee house used to be an option
<aflake> Let Microsoft have the parties, they can afford it. we however must use brains and not brawn
<learning> but we went away from it
<learning> it proved to be costly (we cant invite people in a coffee house then not offer them something)
<aflake> linux and ubuntu especially are meant to be personal, so use that idea in yur marketing. Do not try to play the big boy player, we can't and win.
<learning> yes sadly we got that
<aflake> use a library meeting room then. 
<learning> not available sorry
<learning> we tried them all
<learning> uni library
<aflake> how about a FIrestation, I used one Monday to talk to 4 here about ubuntu!
<learning> public library
<learning> ahh :|
<learning> I am sorry to say those are not possible
<aflake> do you mean to tell me there is not one single room available where you are?
<learning> our community is not like that
<aflake> a house, a bar, any where?
<aflake> a town square,?
<learning> we dont have it
<aflake> street corner?
<learning> if we want it it costs us
<learning> we have street corners
<learning> we are there
<aflake> let me think on this then. Somewthing is possible I know.
<learning> ok
<aflake> where exactly are you?
<learning> I give you a seneareo
<learning> In Bangladesh
<aflake> I know htere are Christian curches there approach them
<aflake> churches I mean
<learning> ok I have no problem
<learning> any free places is fine with me
<aflake> give the police free lessons for their assistance, that worked in Italy when I was there
<learning> :(
<learning> police will arrest us
<learning> seriously
<aflake> then forget that!
<aflake> but something is available because you are here now
<learning> I once crossed under there umbrella by mistake they charged me with obstruction of public service
<learning> I am at my house
<aflake> then do it there but keep it small of course
<learning> privet home are available I can host in my house
<learning> but people wont come
<aflake> then what are you waiting for, and that is the ultimate in personal
<learning> people are not so keen about going an strangers house
<aflake> would 3 come?
<learning> yes
<aflake> how about a friend of a friend?
<aflake> small is better than none
<learning> yes we are doing that
<learning> every month
<learning> but it has been long doing like that
<aflake> then you are doing all you can for the present. Work on the conversion ratios now, and follow up!
<learning> no visible impact about it
<aflake> have you followed up?
<learning> yes several time
<learning> some success some failure
<learning> but not in a large schale
<aflake> then start over with a new group. Don't wste time on everyone, go with the numbers
<learning> I am not saying that 100s of people will come
<learning> and become volunteers
<learning> but what we expect atleast one full time volunteer will join everymonth
<aflake> in marketing a low success rate is ok
<learning> ok
<aflake> do not make expectatipns on others. why apply the pressure, instead make it enjoyable for all.
<learning> ahh it is enjoyable
<aflake> pleasure gets more followers than pain
<learning> not sure whether think of it
<aflake> I had rather eat cnady than go to the Doctor
<learning> I mean its a pleasure for me (but not sure whether for the recipients)
<learning> :)
<learning> true
<aflake> then make it so, lete them play  and experience ubuntu first hand
<aflake> but remember it isn't for everybody, yet...
<learning> humm yes
<aflake> but the first steps must always be baby steps
<learning> one major problem we have is poor internet service
<learning> that is why most people cant enjoy it much
<learning> with 10KBs line its not possible to download repo
<learning> or cds
<aflake> then play chess and other games too, but get them on the comuter as soon as possible
<learning> :)
<learning> okk
<aflake> download evy gnome game and have fun!
<learning> :)
<aflake> just do something that is enjoyable
<learning> humm yes
<aflake> I am a writer, I only use the interent for research, etc. My life is off-line and still have fun
<learning> humm yes
<learning> one problem is the codec problem
<learning> most dont have internet at all
<aflake> that is al problem I can't answer!
<learning> so they cant play music or video (which people do when there is no internet)
<learning> he he no need aflake
<learning> its a problem we have to accept
<learning> we cant do anything about it
<aflake> I am a writer/marketer, not a techno-geek
<tyche> If you have one person that does have a connection, and can burn disks, put the codecs on that.
<learning> just can wish the world of music will follow into using open format soon
<aflake> there, the answer is available
<learning> :P
<learning> yes I can do that
<learning> but I was not thinking on terms of myself only
<learning> not about the people I help
<aflake> the more people interested the sooner it will happen
<tyche> Debs can be installed using gdebi, and that way they don't break the system.
<learning> but hundreds other who receives cds on shipit
<learning> I dont know them so cant help them
<learning> ok tyche
<learning> have heard about it
<tyche> Help the people you can.  It will expand in time.
<learning> but have no personal experience
<aflake> so all of you present will learn together
<aflake> lack of knowledge is no excuse
<aflake> get it
<aflake> any one else have any ideas?
<aflake> on ubuntu marketing?
<aflake> figure I had qualify that question
<aflake> time to go I guess. Sorry to have taken so much time. 
<learning> tyche:  can you tell me more about gdebi?
<learning> I only heard what you have told me,,
<learning> nothing furthur
<tyche> gdebi is a program that uses the apt or apt-get back end to install .deb files.  Because it uses the apt structure, it registers the installation with apt, so that updates can continue normally.
<learning> gdebi is not installed by default (but gdebi-core is, so I think that is not a problem)
<tyche> It should be on the LiveCD.
<learning> ok
<learning> then I burn the codecs (or other apps package) into the cds
<learning> how I install?
<tyche> The .debs are set up to collect any dependencies that might be necessary.  So you might want to test them by installing yourself to see what the dependencies are.
<learning> humm yes
<tyche> Once you have gdebi on the system, simply select the file that you want to install, and gdebi will check to see if everything is available.  If so, then you click "Install" and it will ask for your password, and install it.
<learning> humm but it happens by default in ubuntu kubuntu
<learning> because we have gdebi-core
<learning> so why need to have gdebi?
<learning> and install with care?
<tyche> gdebi is what the program is called, or the command that is used.  Hold on a sec, I want to check something.
<learning> oh ok
<tyche> OK, I just brought up Synaptic, and checked out the dependencies for gdebi.  One of them is gdebi-core.  So, in other words, gdebi is the front end for gdebi core.  It might be that gdebi-core is used by apt and/or Synaptic as part of the installation process.  But for single purpose, one would use the gdebi front end, instead.
<tyche> The front end does the registration process that the core lacks.
<learning> ok got it
<learning> :)
<learning> thanks for explaining so easily ;0
<tyche> I hope I'm explaining them well enough for you.
<learning> yes no problem
<tyche> Believe me, I'm not a tech, but I do pick some stuff up along the way.
<learning> ok
<learning> I wish I could say that about myself
<learning> i pick up some stuff leave half of them :S
<tyche> I don't pick up everything.  And realize that I've been using Ubuntu since the first release came out, and FedoraCore and RedHat before that.  and even earlier, System V Release 4 UNIX at a job.
<tyche> So, I've been exposed to it for a while.
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-08-08
<learning> :o
<learning> not that surprising
<learning> you are an old man :P
<tyche> Since the early to mid 90's altogether.
<learning> he he
<tyche> Yep.  I definitely am.
<learning> old means enough time to get things tested
<learning> :P
<tyche> Old means enough time to learn from my mistakes, because I made plenty of them.  LOL
<learning> he he true
<learning> I have to leave now
<learning> it was nice talking to all you guys
<tyche> OK.  Any time you need me, I'll be in #ubuntu-us-az
<learning> tyche: I think I have made some bad impression about my county
<tyche> Not at all.
<learning> but be assured this country is full of potential and I love it
<learning> yes I will visit it,
<tyche> I think you've been honest about the problems you're facing.
<learning> atleast you have living people there
<learning> visit #ubuntu-bd
<tyche> We all have problems.  many of them are similar.
<learning> all are bots :S
<learning> any way thanks again
<tyche> You're entirely welcome.
<learning> take care :) be well and keep rocking and keep getting old (the older you get the longer you live :P )
<tyche> LOL
<learning> bye
<tyche> You, too.
<tyche> Bye
<learning> leaving
<rjian> hello bueno
<Burgundavia> http://www.concernedcitizen.co.uk/about <--- ubuntu brainstorm in action
<rjian> helo Burgundavia
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-08-09
<rjian> hello everyone :) 
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-08-10
<johnc4510-laptop> Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter #103 is now available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue103
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-08-03
<crystaldart_> Hai evrybody, could you please help with installtion of Samsung SCX - 4521 F printer on my Ubuntu 8.1 ?
<crystaldart_> Hello, Some help with printer installation please
<Hellow> You will get more help in #ubuntu
* You're now known as ubuntulog
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-08-05
<crystaldart> Hello friends, I am finding it impossible to get my Samsung SCX-4521F  printer to print. Some tips please
<crystaldart> I am using Ubuntu 8.1
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-08-07
<maco> the speadubuntu site looks really really screwed up in Camino web browser (Mozilla derivative for OSX)
<maco> all that stuff thats in the middle of the page in Firefox on Ubuntu? one long vertical column down the left
<Takyoji> Alright; I'll be sure to give someone note of that.
<maco> kk
<maco> thanks
<maco> are there plans for anything like karma on spreadubuntu?
<maco> like points for completing missions or uploading materials?
<Takyoji> Not that I'm directly aware of at this moment
<maco> Takyoji: im pushing a css change to make the licensing/legal fieldset not overlap the upload one on the "share materials" page
<maco> on the ~spreadubuntu branch, not trunk
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-08-08
<AliTabuger7> Hi everybody!
<maco> AliTabuger7: you get my reply?
<maco> AliTabuger7: it looks like adding "clear:right" to the fieldset legal also makes it stop overlapping. perhaps other browsers automatically do that and firefox 3.0.13 and 3.5.2 (i see overlap in both) need to be told explicitly?
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-08-09
<johnc4510> The newest issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter #154 is now available:
<johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue154
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-08-09
<akgraner> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here:
<akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue205
#ubuntu-marketing 2011-08-11
<truthlogik> greetings all
#ubuntu-marketing 2011-08-12
<seidos> hello
#ubuntu-marketing 2012-08-11
<smartboyhw> Hi@
#ubuntu-marketing 2012-08-12
<smartboyhw> Hi!
#ubuntu-marketing 2013-08-07
<ignaath> Iemand wakker? 
<ignaath> NIet dus. jammer :-(
#ubuntu-marketing 2014-08-08
<silverlion> o/
