#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-15
<Madpilot> anyone here?
<HrdwrBoB> vaguely
<Madpilot> that's about how I'm here, too... ;)
<Burgundavia> hello
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: hi
<Burgundavia> did you see the draft I threw up
<Burgundavia> very rough
<jsgotangco> let me check 
<jsgotangco> svn?
<Burgundavia> no wiki
<jsgotangco> ahh right
<Madpilot> the draft quickguide? looks OK
<jsgotangco> QuickTour?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: check RecentChanges, I added a bunch of search-engine-bait pages to Restricted
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> thanks
<Burgundavia> make rm a disambig
<jsgotangco> hehe I LIKE IT
<jsgotangco> marketing types will be happy with it
<Madpilot> it's a good brochure page
<Madpilot> anyone awake over here?
<jsgotangco> zzz
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> you can always holler Burgundavia he rarely sleeps
<Burgundavia> hey
<Burgundavia> check out quicktour right now
<highvoltage> hi Madpilot.
<highvoltage> i got up very early this morning.
<jsgotangco> QuickTourDraft?
<Madpilot> it's what, 0500 in South Africa? 0600?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
<highvoltage> it's 09:20 now.
<highvoltage> i woke up at 4:25
<highvoltage> which is about 5 hours ago :)
<highvoltage> feels like it's time for lunch already...
<Madpilot> hmm, I'd thought RSA was behind Zulu/UTM. nevermind!
<highvoltage> nope, GMT+2. we're with the germans :)
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: you can probably ask mpt's opinion on they layout
<jsgotangco> it looks like a chessboard to me
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> hopefully I can tweak it to be better spaced
<Madpilot> it's ironic that you have to go back to table-layout hacks in wikis - no nice CSS layouts there!
<Madpilot> how very 1990s...
<jsgotangco> if its possible to simulate a mediawiki style picture box/caption, it could probably work
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, I cannot see on this page how he turn off the border --> http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
<jsgotangco> although it would entail very serious css/xslt play on the source
<jsgotangco> if its bound to be sourced anyways
<Burgundavia> I am almost created this page as a subpage of my wikipedia user page
<Burgundavia> s/am almost/almost
<jsgotangco> since docbook is not presentation-centic as a format
<Madpilot> "border=0" works on both CSS & tables. 
<Madpilot> but I haven't looked at the source of either page
<Burgundavia> gah
<Burgundavia> leave it as is
<jsgotangco> i would suggest adding power tools/usage though
<Burgundavia> I need to mention the services and about me
<Burgundavia> and then play with the order
<jsgotangco> the power stuff should be at the end
<highvoltage> Madpilot: the table hacks on wikis suck :(
<jsgotangco> the showstoppers at the top
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I am going to move the laptop support stuff to the top
<Burgundavia> or near it, I should say
<jsgotangco> yep
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> is beagle to be included?
<Burgundavia> no idea yet
<jsgotangco> last i heard it was in danger of being not included
<Burgundavia> it is
<Burgundavia> should I mention menu-editing?
<jsgotangco> nasty deps?
<Burgundavia> no, not mature enough
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> smeg is ubuntu-specific so yeah why not
<Burgundavia> ok
<jsgotangco> should give credit to Amaranth for that
<jsgotangco> he worked so hard for that app
<Madpilot> http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html <-- this is an odd mix of tables & CSS
<Burgundavia> it looks good
<Burgundavia> the tables should probably be divs
<Madpilot> he floats the images, but uses table cells to enforce the rest of the layout
<jsgotangco> it works though
<Madpilot> yeah, it does work. Pure CSS would be a bit better, but I'm a purist... :)
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: its also a good idea to have different image sizes, although all of them should be a rectangle
<Burgundavia> probably
<jsgotangco> hmmm does A9 toolbar look evil to you?
<Burgundavia> a9?
<jsgotangco> the amazon search engine
<jsgotangco> i like it because i can show a wikipedia result at the same time
<jsgotangco> nice sample of AJAX cleverness
<Burgundavia> my bloody left mouse button is dying
<Madpilot> switch to a left-handed mouse layout, then left button = right button, therefore used slightly less!
<Burgundavia> right, I mean left
<Burgundavia> ;)
<Madpilot> then get a job, so you can buy a new mouse...
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> we have from the 25th of august to the 8th of sept to take all screenshots
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> pressure mounts
<Burgundavia> and one month to finish writing
<Madpilot> that's going to be a busy week...
<jsgotangco> we are very much behind
<Burgundavia> don't think so
<jsgotangco> well ok im very much behind on cookbook
<Burgundavia> well, you did just start
<jsgotangco> i dont think userguide is shippable
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> any kde stuff shippable?
<Burgundavia> the faqguide is
<jsgotangco> so we end  up with quicktour and faqguide
<Burgundavia> then we ship the faqguide as default yelp homepage
<Madpilot> how do you upload a pic to the U wiki? I want to stick a terminal window screenie in BasicCommands
<Burgundavia> more actions drop down
<jsgotangco> kde no idea it seemed to have lost steam when i turned over kubuntu quickguide
<Burgundavia> and froud vanished into thin air
<Burgundavia> although he is writing a book about ubuntu
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: "More Actions - Attachments"?
<jsgotangco> but i think quick tour and faqguide are good enough
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, yes
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
<Madpilot> thanks. now I need to reset my desktop to default for the screenshot...
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, xnest
<Madpilot> x-what?
<Burgundavia> install xnest
<Burgundavia> then create another user
<Burgundavia> and login with them in xnest
<jsgotangco> in a deeper thought, the next focus is harness existing docs and have them seen approriately instead of writing more docs
<Burgundavia> to be honest, after people graduate fromt eh faq, they are likely to know how to google
<Madpilot> gack. easier just to switch Gnome's themes briefly! interesting thought, tho
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: right
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, if you are going to be taking more screenshots, it is worth it
<jsgotangco> its quite easy but can take time
<Madpilot> just one terminal one right now... xnest can wait
<Burgundavia> Microsoft buys in Wal-Mart talent <-- that sums up the current state of MS right there
<Burgundavia> The Ubuntu Express installer that is being developed (and hopefully will
<Burgundavia> be the default Breezy installer) includes such functionality.
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu and any derived distro will be able to define a collection of
<Burgundavia> images to be shown during the 15 minutes (aprox) of installation. This
<Burgundavia> can be a combination of a GNOME tour (KDE tour for Kubuntu) plus
<Burgundavia> highlights of the main applications that are being installed.
<Burgundavia> sorry for the flood
<Burgundavia> we need to plan for this
<jsgotangco> ojeda's email?
<jsgotangco> oh installer
<Burgundavia> to ubuntu-devel from Quim gil
<Madpilot> XP does something similar, doesn't it?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> last time we installed XP, I seem to recall we went out for beer while it was grinding away...
<Burgundavia> do we want that stuff to be the quick tour?
<Burgundavia> that is about 15 minutes of stuff I have
<Burgundavia> 45 secs each
<Burgundavia> mentioned our effort in that thread
<jsgotangco> i think its only applicable in an installer guide instead of a quick tour
<Burgundavia> our quick tour?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> makes a good marketing webpage as well
<Burgundavia> ala the davyd thing and that other one
<jsgotangco> but your quicktour can only bee seen once installed
<jsgotangco> unless you publish it on a page
<jsgotangco> or a pdf
<Burgundavia> I intend to
<jsgotangco> its useful in a brochure though
<Burgundavia> and each distinct section could go in that installer
<Burgundavia> not perfect, but good enough for breezy
<jsgotangco> would it be nice on 1st boot the quick tour opens
<Burgundavia> that would be nice
<Burgundavia> maybe hack the upgrader to show the same thing?
<jsgotangco> good idea i totally forgot about upgrade paths
<Burgundavia> don't know if it is doable at this late stage
<Madpilot> which Help page has the images stuff?
<Burgundavia> attachment:YourImage.png
<Burgundavia> that adds it
<Burgundavia> images are specific to one page, unlike mediawiki
<Madpilot> got that - what about formatting and stuff? float:right;border:0 and all that?
<Burgundavia> HelpOnTables
<Madpilot> thanks
<Madpilot> dog, what a *hack* wiki markup is. can't we just use normal XHTML/CSS tags? please?
<Burgundavia> mediawiki markup is quite nice
<jsgotangco> yes
<Madpilot> I'd be done this image insertion already if I could use real markup!
<jsgotangco> although moin can be simpler
<Burgundavia> much less hacky
<Madpilot> is the only way to float:right with an image to stick it into a table?
<jsgotangco> you can probably go back to zwiki hell though
<Madpilot> I can't see how I associate the attachment:image bit with actual markup...
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> you need to wrap the attachment in a table
<Burgundavia> and then style that
<Madpilot> you're kidding? what a horrible hack
<jsgotangco> its the wikiwiki way
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> no, it is the moin way
<jsgotangco> oh right
<jsgotangco> mediawiki has nicer image sytling
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, speak of the devil, sean returns
<jsgotangco> styling
<jsgotangco> wa?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, check you inbox
<Madpilot> bah. styling later. there's a screenshot here now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicCommands
<jsgotangco> he's fixing the userguide
<jsgotangco> kde userguide
* Madpilot switches back to his custom theme with relief...
<Burgundavia> hey
<jdub> ahr
<jsgotangco> aye
<jdub> dudes, i am excited :)
<jdub> this is so much what the quickguide should be :-)
<jsgotangco> desktop showstoppers
<jsgotangco> yeah total rewrite
<Burgundavia> the idea had been percolating through my head since we talked jdub
<jsgotangco> i got convinced further when Burgundavia showed me the linuxguy.biz link
<Burgundavia> I was lucky that jsgotangco bought into the idea
<jdub> who is linuxguy.biz?
<Burgundavia> http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
<Burgundavia> he sells ubuntu to non-techies
<Burgundavia> our parents, sisters, brothers, etc.
<jdub> yeah, 'cos that page is rad
<jdub> so for the tour, "intuitive interface" is a bit too generic
<Burgundavia> I would buy ubuntu if I saw that page
<jdub> perhaps it would be good to split up the tour into two parts
<Burgundavia> "clear menus"
<jdub> 1. general ubuntu benefits (probably ongoing)
<Burgundavia> ubuntu in general and new in breezy?
<jsgotangco> basic/advanced?
<jdub> 2. new release benefits (changing with each release)
<Burgundavia> ok
<jdub> so 1. would include "easy software update"
<Burgundavia> it sort of is, but I haven't really fleshed that out
<jsgotangco> 2. can also serve as a changelog / whats new page?
<Madpilot> Hmmm. General Ubuntu Benefits: 1. Free. 2. Free. 3. Have we mentioned that it's Free?  ;)
<Madpilot> sorry, I'll go back to Minesweeper now...
<jdub> Madpilot: yes, the "ubuntu commitment" could be one whole page
<jdub> and that's definitely ubuntu-benefit-ongoing :-)
<jdub> Burgundavia: perhaps writing out the list of benefits would be a good start
<jdub> just as simple bullet points
<jsgotangco> hmm lycoris did something similar like this before
<jdub> we could start with BreezyGoals
<jdub> - edubuntu -> not really an ubuntu user benefit
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> Bluetooth support
<jdub> + laptopmission -> "ubuntu works great on your laptop hardware!"
<jdub> - oeminstaller -> not really an ubuntu user benefit
<jdub> + thinclientintegration -> "run thin clients out of the box! <see documentation>"
<Burgundavia> added to the list of Todo
<Burgundavia> further stuff?
<Burgundavia> jdub, I had thought of moving the latop stuff to a prominent section
<Burgundavia> but am unsure about features that might not make it (nm and gnome-power)
<jdub> +/- launchpadintegration -> hrm, could be pimped as user benefit, contribute to ubuntu, etc
<jdub> + audiocdburning -> serpentine is a good feature in general
<jdub> - audioinfrastructure -> not really a user benefit ("huh? sound works? well, ah, great... i guess")
<Burgundavia> might be worth a one liner
<jdub> + bluetoothsupport -> ubuntu talks to your phone
<jdub> Burgundavia: not really, it rarely pays to talk about expectations as benefits ;)
<Burgundavia> is that going to make it?
<jdub> dunno
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I am in a bind, because of the stuff that might not make it
<jdub> yeah
<jdub> work with janew on that
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jdub> will be good for pressure ;)
<jdub> anyway, so goals page is a good place to start for 2nd group stuff
<jdub> the new gnome features can also be helpful
<jdub> improved file management is a good one from 2.12
<Burgundavia> I cribbed quite heavily from davyds excellent stuff
<Burgundavia> gnome should promote his work more
<jdub> quite a few of linuxguy ones fit into the 1st group
<jdub> for instance, gaim should always be in there as a user benefit
<jdub> "talk to ALL your friends in one easy to use interface"
<Burgundavia> ok
<jdub> OOo is a good one
<Burgundavia> already there
<jdub> a page about GNOME in general
<Burgundavia> "the power of gnome"?
<jdub> good ones already about software management and installation
<jdub> Burgundavia: perhaps push the usability, accessibility and i18n benefits
<Burgundavia> glad niran didn't go awol on that
<jsgotangco> automatic updateds and stuff
<jsgotangco> hmm
<Burgundavia> "built on the highly usable and powerful Gnome desktop?"
<jsgotangco> mednu editing?
<Burgundavia> s/?"/'?
<jdub> also flagging some of these things as available for windows *right off the live cd* would be cool
<jdub> Burgundavia: powerful doesn't mean anything, easier not to say it :)
<jdub> see www.gnome.org/about/
<jdub> jsgotangco: hard to sell expectation as a benefit :)
<Burgundavia> for LanguagePackRoadmap, there is a gui tool now, no?
<jdub> yeah
<jdub> haven't seen it yet though
<jdub> oh, here we go
<jdub> oof
<jdub> ouch
<Burgundavia> pda, soundevents and printing went nowhere?
<jdub> have you been in touch with linuxguy?
<Burgundavia> nope
<jdub> ok
<jdub> emailing now
<Burgundavia> what about?
<jdub> hi, love your page, want to help out in ubuntu/gnome?
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> jdub, language-selector is already there
<jdub> yeah, i just looked at it (oof, ouch above)
<jsgotangco> hmm what about photoalbums and stuff
<jsgotangco> like plugging in a digicam
<jdub> jsgotangco: a 'just works' hardware angle?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> usb sticks, wlan sticks, etc
<Burgundavia> is mono a feature?
<Burgundavia> oo2?
<Burgundavia> sure
<jdub> OOo is, in general -> "complete office suite, compatible with common document formats"
<jdub> mono isn't, really
<jsgotangco> powe user/developer benefits?
<jdub> jsgotangco: probably best to avoid those, unless they're deeply, deeply cool
<Burgundavia> has SystemUpgradeTool gone anywhere?
<jsgotangco> these are mostly desktop showcases at the moment
<Burgundavia> I have added our notes to the ToDo section at the bottom
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, ironically, there is a thread on -devel about dropping the workspace switcher
<Madpilot> you mean the virtual desktop thingie?
<Burgundavia> yes
<HrdwrBoB> I used to use workspaces - I now use windowshade mode more
<Burgundavia> just for the default desktop, you can still add it after
<Madpilot> coolest new computer trick going, IMO, and they're going to drop it?
<HrdwrBoB> Burgundavia: I think that's a good idea
<Madpilot> ah, OK, provided it's still available to switch on...
<Burgundavia> there are some discoverablity issues
<Burgundavia> and generaly usablity "where has my program gone" ones
<Madpilot> "discoverability" means "what the heck is this?"
<Burgundavia> yes
<HrdwrBoB> but I have some odd views.. like home as desktop :)
<Madpilot> yeah, I can see that. I still like it, tho
<Madpilot> HrdwrBoB: we've argued about that already tonight...
<Madpilot> ;)
<HrdwrBoB> yeah :P
<HrdwrBoB> see http://evolvedoo.sourceforge.net/abstract/#2 for another take on it
<Madpilot> interesting - I'm still not convinced that it needs doing...
<HrdwrBoB> it doesn't NEED doing - it's just my opinion that it's better (in that it Makes More Sense) but eh
<HrdwrBoB> of more interesting note is that if you mouse over an mp3, it starts previewing and when you delete it with the delete key it keeps playing
<Madpilot> now that's an entertaining bug... heh
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, jdub I have to crash. Feel free to add more stuff to the todo/ the page itself or fire an email to the list. 
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> see you later
<jsgotangco> brb
<jsgotangco> mdke: awake?
<mdke> yes :)
<mdke> morning
<jsgotangco> you've been quiet lately :)
<jsgotangco> its unnatural
<mdke> jsgotangco, as I said, I'm at the computer less so I'm quieter on irc
<mdke> but I'm still checking it and emails
<mdke> is there a meeting tomorrow?
<jsgotangco> gf still around?
<mdke> jsgotangco, yes
<mdke> we're both looking for jobs
<jsgotangco> oh god i totally forgot about it
<mdke> and I'm looking for a house
<mdke> hence the quiet :)
<jsgotangco> what you think of the new direction of Quick Tour?
<mdke> i think it will be a good document
<mdke> i don't see why it should replace the quickguide
<mdke> it's totally different
<mdke> why not make them both?
<jsgotangco> time
<mdke> but the quickguide is already done no?
<jsgotangco> needs thorough editing though
<mdke> ah
<mdke> what about the relationship between quick tour and about ubuntu?
<mdke> the former is to some extent a subset of the latter
<jsgotangco> if you scrollback it can probably be included in benefit 3
<mdke> what is that?
<mdke> brb
<jsgotangco> night
<mgalvin> hi all
<mpt> hello mgalvin
<mgalvin> hey mpt
<mdke> hiya
<mdke> mgalvin, did you get anywhere with packaging ubuntu-doc?
<mgalvin> mdke: hi, i looked at it quickly a while ago and saw that some work was done on it, i didn't get a chance to build a working package... if we need/are ready for one i can jump back into it and get it built
<mdke> i dunno if we are ready for one now, but I was just wondering about it
<mdke> we have some time between string freeze and release so it can be sorted out then probably
<mdke> we need to consider l10n too
<mgalvin> ok, i will take a look at it again soon anyway so that when we need it, it will be ready
<jjesse> morning
<mgalvin> morning jjesse
<jjesse> is it afternoon for you? :)
<mgalvin> 10:30am here in NY :)
<jjesse> same for here in mi
<jjesse> i never remember what time zones people are in 
<mgalvin> wow, two people in the same time zone, who would have thought (for this team anyway ;)
<jjesse> grin especially a US time zone
* mgalvin needs food
<Burgundavia> ouch, openoffice, X and bunch of smaller stuff. 160mb to download
<cat> hey does ubunto have a handbook like fbsd?
<Burgundavia> what sort of handbook?
<cat> well ubuntus
<Burgundavia> targeted at what audience?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-16
<mgalvin> hi all
<Burgundavia> salut mgalvin 
<Burgundavia> nice work on the faqguide
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: thnx, i am trying to make it easier to work on, it such a pain looking thru a 10000 line xml file
<Burgundavia> mgalvin, jerome and I were talking about the userguide last night
<Burgundavia> hey thoreauputic 
<thoreauputic> Burgundavia: just to elaborate on what I was saying - as a non-technical type I would like to know a non-technical way that one can contribute
<Burgundavia> the wiki is probably the best way
<thoreauputic> hmmm
<Burgundavia> a lot of pages needs to be cleaned up to reflect ubuntu best practices
<Burgundavia> gui over cli, etc.
<Burgundavia> most of the wiki pages are too wordy
<thoreauputic> well, I'm probably not aware of "best practices" - I know a bit about debian-style stuff
<Burgundavia> basically, if there is a gui way, offer that
<thoreauputic> but I'm just an intermediate user...
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu uses sudo, so root stuff is right out
<thoreauputic> yes I know that ;)
<robotgeek> maybe we could just copy stuff over from ubuntuguide
<Burgundavia> if we can write for your parents, we can write for anybody
<Burgundavia> robotgeek, the ubuntguide is already the basis of the faqguide that mgalvin and rob stoffers are working on
<robotgeek> yeah, the focus has to shift from RTFM, though sometimes, it wud help
<Burgundavia> the ubuntuguide offers one solution to the problem
<Burgundavia> sometimes it is not the best one
<robotgeek> i liked the way gentoo articles work
<Burgundavia> on their wiki?
<thoreauputic> Burgundavia: I feel there should be a "first time druid" or similar that points people at documentation
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: so what were you and jerome discussing about the userguide?
<robotgeek> i use them to setup debian machines
<Burgundavia> mgalvin, pretty much that it can't be shipped and nobody is working on it
<Burgundavia> thoreauputic, we are still hashing out the main yelp page
<robotgeek> their wikis...they explain why we are doing and what we are doing
<thoreauputic> Burgundavia: right - but the average punter won't even open yelp without a nice popup that says "Welcome to Ubuntu! Start here..."
<Burgundavia> yes
<robotgeek> correct...
<Burgundavia> pretty much at this point the likely main page is the faqguide
<Burgundavia> because after people graduate the faqguide, they are likely to be googling instead
<thoreauputic> major questions: 1) multimedia 2)multimedia 3)sound 4) wifi  ... and so forth
<robotgeek> maybe we shud grep the irc logs?
<Burgundavia> already did
<thoreauputic> the repetition is intentional :)
<Burgundavia> and ubotu reports what is common as well
<thoreauputic> ah, good to know
<Burgundavia> we pretty much know what people want/need
<Burgundavia> we now need to decide how to deliver that
<robotgeek> yeah, can help out a bit
<thoreauputic> I would say aim at Aunt Tilly ;)
<robotgeek> wrote some documentation for Adium before, not much though
<Razor-X> is there any compiled list for stuff users need docs on?
<Burgundavia> CategoryCleanup on the wiki lists pages that need help
<Burgundavia> the other thing that is in the beginning stages is our QuickTour marketing guide
<thoreauputic> I think the search function for the wiki needs to be more obvious 
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuickTourDraft
<Burgundavia> yes, that would be nice
<thoreauputic> or rather, more emphasised, visually
<Burgundavia> file a bug about it
<thoreauputic> :)
<thoreauputic> noted
<Burgundavia> right now, we need help is just about every area
<Burgundavia> so find something that interests you and do that
<robotgeek> noted
<Burgundavia> the doc team is pretty spread around the world, so you are likely to find someone in this channel at all times
<Razor-X> I made a little script to automate MPlayer compilation for those who want all the codecs, or whose AAC is broken, or who want more than 2 GB file support
<robotgeek> makes sense, if you just want it working
<Burgundavia> if you want to cleanup up the mplayer stuff that would be great
<Burgundavia> make a main mplayer page and link all the various mplayer things off of that
<Razor-X> hmmm, nice idea
<Burgundavia> I don't know that any of doc team uses mplayer
<Razor-X> also, I'll put the Cedega automated install method up
<Razor-X> I use VLC and MPlayer, so that's where I can help
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: has there been any discussion about which docs we will be including?
<Burgundavia> remember that Ubuntu best practices is to promote existing solutions
<Burgundavia> so totem and rb are them
<robotgeek> i'll just have to find what i like. :)
<Burgundavia> mgalvin, aside from the faqguide and maybe the quicktour, is anything else going to be ready?
<mgalvin> i want to start getting the deb package ready too
<mgalvin> not that i know of
<mgalvin> ok, so i will only include those few things for now
<Burgundavia> quicktour is not even in svn yet
<mgalvin> right, i am just going to include the faqguide then for now as a first step, since the existing deb package doesn't even currently work
<Burgundavia> ok
<Razor-X> are there any plans to create an Enlightenment based Ubuntu distribution?
<robotgeek> enlightenment is full of eye-candy!!
<Razor-X> meh
<Razor-X> yeah, it is
<robotgeek> i liked what i saw, but too slow on mine...
<robotgeek> but why do u need whole distro?
<Razor-X> like Kubuntu
<Razor-X> Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Eubuntu (possibly)
<thoreauputic> Razor-X: Eubuntu sounds too much like "Ewwww... Ubuntu " ;-)
<Razor-X> meh ;)
<thoreauputic> Enlightened Ubuntu perhaps :)
<Razor-X> heh, yeah
<Burgundavia> not current
<Burgundavia> and eubuntu is too close to edubuntu
<Razor-X> yeah, I was thinking that
<robotgeek> i still don't understand why we need separate ubuntu/kubuntu
<robotgeek> anyone can explain?
<Burgundavia> they are not really seperate
<Burgundavia> same repos
<Razor-X> I like Kubuntu a lot, actually
<Burgundavia> it is more marketing
<Razor-X> I've been a KDE fan for a long time, I didn't want to bother with Gnome
<Razor-X> and I _love_ the document viewers in KDE
<Razor-X> (like KPDF and KDVI)
<Razor-X> oh yeah, and any note when URW Palladio is going to get fixed?
<robotgeek> use kdm, but gnome with openbox
<Burgundavia> evince is better
<Razor-X> does evince allow continuous facing pages?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Razor-X> hmmm, nice
<Burgundavia> evince is also going to do javascript stuff eventually
<Razor-X> they use the same rendering engine, i'm told
<Burgundavia> don't know if kpdf has switched yet
<Burgundavia> but yes, they do
<Burgundavia> poppler, a freedesktop project
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: was any specifc ubuntu-doc install location discussed or do you think just putting everything in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/* (as html) seems fine?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> best ask the list
<mgalvin> k
<cat> listen how can i help ubuntu 
<mgalvin> what do you want to help with?
<jsgotangco> hi
<Madpilot> hi
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, ping?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, pong
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot 
<Madpilot> meh - Freenode doesn't seem to be reporting "last active @ <time>" anymore when you do whois...
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, did you receive an email from claire?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I did
<jsgotangco> ahh goodie
<Burgundavia> fedex contacted my gf (to whose workplace I am shippping the laptop) and said that there were customs fees
<Burgundavia> I am getting a Toshiba Tecra A5
<jsgotangco> im getting a Tecra M2
<jsgotangco> which is smaller?
<Madpilot> is Canonical absorbing the customs fee, or are you folks on the hook for that bit?
<mgalvin> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, good question
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, no idea
<jsgotangco> hey mgalvin 
<Burgundavia> I emailed claire about it
<jsgotangco> we can ask claire on that
<jsgotangco> oh did she reply?
<Burgundavia> not yet
<Burgundavia> our appear to be about the same
<jsgotangco> well i have no clue at the moment if i'll be charged customs fee because mine is expected to arrive on the 17th
<Burgundavia> yours might be more powerful
<Burgundavia> she said the 17th for everybody
<Burgundavia> mine might arrive tomorrow
<jsgotangco> ah
<mgalvin> where is my laptop ;)
<mgalvin> so you guys are getting laptops for the testing work right?
<jsgotangco> unfortunately, yes
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> toshibas are nice laptops though
<mgalvin> cool
<jsgotangco> indeed
<jsgotangco> it should work out of the box though
<Madpilot> yeah, but they've got to babysit XP installs on them - Burgundavia's already been complaining about that! ;)
<Burgundavia> I am counting the days
<jsgotangco> i dont mind, an M2 has a geforce 2go
<Madpilot> 18 months of XP, right?
<mgalvin> i just bought a new one for myself, i can't wait to get it, but i know getting ubuntu on it is going to be a battle
<Burgundavia> mine is ati
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> mgalvin, what brand?
<mgalvin> hp nx6125, the new one with the AMD Turion 64 chip in it
<Burgundavia> http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&section=1&group=1&product=4592
<Burgundavia> that is what i am geting
<Burgundavia> http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&section=1&group=1&product=4196
<Burgundavia> that is what jsgotangco is getting
<Burgundavia> the next model to be exact
<mgalvin> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=H24-PZ092%20SB
<jsgotangco> wonder how many laptops were purchased
<jsgotangco> i dont see any M2
<Burgundavia> yours has bluetooth, mine does not
<jsgotangco> ok that's one more thing to test
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> and i dont have a bluetooth phone
<jsgotangco> hmm you're getting a widescreen
<Burgundavia> both have slots for cards
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> 14"
<Burgundavia> yours has tpm on it, mine does ot
<Burgundavia> salut rob^ 
<Burgundavia> they are very similar laptops
<jsgotangco> err we seem to have a big number here at the moment, do we continue with the meeting later or postpone it?
<mgalvin> hey rob^
<rob^> hi Burgundavia 
<rob^> hey mgalvin 
<Burgundavia> meeting?
<rob^> what time is it?
<jsgotangco> DocteamMeetingAgenda
<Burgundavia> isn't it tomorrow>?
<jsgotangco> let me check
<jsgotangco> August 11
<Burgundavia> ubuntumeeting says 11th
<jsgotangco> let's just move it
<Burgundavia> to right now?
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> sure just a lightning meeting would proabably do
<jsgotangco> or just move it for tommorow?
<jsgotangco> guys?
<rob^> now is better for me
<Burgundavia> let me check the agenda
<Burgundavia> right now is better for me
<rob^> I'm on shift for the next few days..
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, there's not much on the agenda
<mgalvin> i guess i can hang around a little longer for it
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> sure, why don't we meet quickly now
<jsgotangco> sure let's move then
* mgalvin goes to meeting
<Madpilot> can people who just happen to be here at the right time sit in on the meeting?
<Burgundavia> sure
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> its open anyways
<Madpilot> ubuntu-meeting, right?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, thanks for the help on the Quicktour layout
<jeffsch> np
<jsgotangco> ok anything more, it seems we have coveredgood for a quickie
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I am going to wait for your brain dump on QuickTourDraft before i start refactoring
<jsgotangco> ok but i can't do that right now, i'm going to the dentist later
<Burgundavia> np
<jeffsch> re: meeting times - maybe instead of two alternating times, would three be better?
<rob^> maybe
<jsgotangco> what would be the other time?
<rob^> I just wish it was on the friday instead of the thursday
<jsgotangco> Thursday 22UTC is Friday morning for us
<rob^> then it wouldn't matter much for me
<jeffsch> yeah, friday is good
<jsgotangco> but if we move to friday, it'll be better for me an rob
<rob^> as in friday 1400z
<jsgotangco> because it would be a weekend for us
<jsgotangco> yeah
<rob^> yep
<jsgotangco> friday 22UTC is morning for us on saturday
<jsgotangco> which is acceptable
<Burgundavia> I am not adverse to moving to friday
<jsgotangco> sure friday seems favorable to all of us
<rob^> yeah I dont mind a 2am meeting if I dont have to get up for work the next day
<jsgotangco> on the 26th then?
<rob^> man, I have to work out time zones for a job..
<rob^> I'm having a real brain fart today
<Burgundavia> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=8&day=10&year=2005&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<Burgundavia> check out that
<Madpilot> thanks Burgundavia
<Madpilot> anyone know if there's a timezone app in the repos?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<jsgotangco> ok how does Aug. 26 14UTC sound
<Burgundavia> sure
<rob^> ok I'm going to sleep before work tonight
<rob^> umm night all
<jsgotangco> ok Aug. 26 14UTC it is
<rob^> :)
<Burgundavia> 
<Burgundavia> sorry, playing with random utf-8 character from spam I recieve
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: :)
<jsgotangco> err is that ok?
<jeffsch> yep
<jsgotangco> jeffsch, toronto right
<jsgotangco> ?
<jeffsch> vancouver
<jsgotangco> ok 7am then
<jeffsch> yep
<jsgotangco> jeffsch, question
<jeffsch> shoot
<jsgotangco> why does the styleguide pdf script doesn't work
<jeffsch> !!!!!
<jeffsch> i didn't know that... I take a look right away
<jsgotangco> i stole those scripts for edubuntu btw
<jeffsch> np
<Madpilot> cool, there is a timezone app in Hoary repos - sunclock - does a bunch of other stuff too
<mgalvin> i commited the ubuntu-docs packaging changes so if anyone can take a look at some point that would be great
<jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-doc/styleguide$ make pdf
<jsgotangco> xmllint --dtdvalid /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid styleguide.xml
<jsgotangco> xsltproc -o ../build/styleguide/styleguide.fo udp-pdf.xslt styleguide.xml
<jsgotangco> Making portrait pages on USletter paper (8.5inx11in)
<jsgotangco> fop.sh -fo ../build/styleguide/styleguide.fo -pdf ../build/styleguide/styleguide.pdf
<jsgotangco> make: fop.sh: Command not found
<jsgotangco> make: *** [pdf]  Error 127
<jsgotangco> ooopps
<jsgotangco> sorry
<jeffsch> ahhh.... you don't have apache fop installed
<mgalvin> i commented out the old stuff(for now) just incase we need it for something at some point
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: apache fop is needed to build the pdf's
<jsgotangco> i have to install apache?
<jsgotangco> jezz
<mgalvin> rob^: while working on the faqguide, please feel free to finish splitting into pieces
<jeffsch> no, not apache.
<rob^> mgalvin, yeah :)
<jeffsch> apache has more than the web server
<rob^> ok gtg to bed
<jsgotangco> i dont think we have that on the repos
<jeffsch> just a sec, i will find the link...
<rob^> cya's
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: it's not in the repos, you can only get it from the apache web site
<jsgotangco> and the make html doesn't include the images
<mgalvin> later rob^
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: http://xml.apache.org/fop/
<jsgotangco> i see
<jsgotangco> i was furiously lookfing for fop.sh
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: the makefile in styleguide folder is only good for pdf... it is there for that only
<jeffsch> I should revise it someday. To build the html, use the same make file as the other docs
<jeffsch> in ubuntu-doc/gnome, type make sg
<jsgotangco> ok i will try that
<jeffsch> when can we move our previews to the linode server?
<Madpilot> somebody was asking how many laptops Canonical was shipping out - it's quite a list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, i dont think everyone in that list got one
<Madpilot> wondered about that - that's a lot of lappies to give away!
<Burgundavia> quite a few did
<mgalvin> g'night guys, c y'all later
<jeffsch> latervdude
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, its not free hehe we had to sign an ageement but after 3 releases, its ours
<jsgotangco> a year and a half to be exact
<Madpilot> yeah, I know how the deail works - 3 releases and babysitting XP too?
<jsgotangco> its not so bad...heh games on XP are nice :)
<Madpilot> ... and you'll be able to stay abreast of all the exciting developments in spyware, malware & viruses, too! ;)
<Burgundavia> I will be able to play Dunegon Seige again
<Burgundavia> blah
<Burgundavia> my girlfriend confirmed that if I pay the customs, I should be able to have it tomorrow
<Madpilot> cool - but what's the customs damage going to be?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<jsgotangco> oh so you have it already
<jsgotangco> i mean so its there already
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, better wait for claire's resonse 
<Burgundavia> I intend to
<jsgotangco> let me check my tracking number
<Burgundavia> as she starts work at 2am my time, shouldn't be an issue
<Burgundavia> hmm, my tracking number spits out not found
<jsgotangco> mine too
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> I tried Canada and the UK
<jsgotangco> same here i also tried UK
<jsgotangco> TNT express?
<Burgundavia> http://www.tnt.com/tntgroup/en_corporate.html
<jsgotangco> sure just check on TNT express
<Burgundavia> I did
<Burgundavia> have you got anything?
<jsgotangco> my guess is that the consignment number is not yet in the system
<jsgotangco> but its strange if your machine is already in canada
<Burgundavia> it should be
<Burgundavia> mine is not yet in Canada, or on the easy coast
<jsgotangco> maybe we only have a number that is not yet in the system
<Burgundavia> could be
<jsgotangco> i encountered that as well in ups some time ago
<jsgotangco> i wasnt charged by customs on the zaurus that was given to me
<Burgundavia> canonical gave you a zaurus?
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> that was a long long time ago
<Burgundavia> oh
<jsgotangco> that was during my active time in OpenZaurus
<Burgundavia> fedex spits up nothing for me either
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, please do that brain dump so I can continue working
<jsgotangco> give me an hour, i'm going to leave in 30 minutes
<Burgundavia> ok
<jsgotangco> brb
<Burgundavia> http://sunsite.bilkent.edu.tr/pub/linux/www.kde.org/
<Madpilot> just doing some wiki cleanup
<Madpilot> there are THREE PHP5 pages right now
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PHP5FromSource
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PHP5Installation
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PHP5Installation2
<Madpilot> can someone who knows PHP5 & the whole install-from-source drill go thru them and take them down to one page, with redirects?
<Madpilot> OK, I"ve just added a note to all three PHP5 pages, and linked them all to ApacheMySQLPHP for ppl who actually want PHP4...
<Burgundavia> welcome to the fun of CamelCase
<Burgundavia> THings with two caps in a row must be explicitly linked
<Burgundavia> ["like this'] 
<Burgundavia> ["like this"] 
<Madpilot> ack, shite, I see what you mean. back to editing
<Madpilot> <mutter, mutter, mutter>
<Burgundavia> alrady did it
<Burgundavia> [" is  terrible way to link
<Madpilot> on all three PHP5 pages?
<Burgundavia> [[ is much easier
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> OK, done - but editing on top of each other gets messy...
<Burgundavia> I just asked on #moin about why [" was chosen
<Burgundavia> I really want to drop camelcase and force explict linking, with [[
<Madpilot> wikipedia is [[thing] ] , right?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> CamelCase is actually less intuitive than [[
<Burgundavia> because CamelCase falls down in corner cases like this one
<Madpilot> plus you get odd unwanted pseudo-links sometimes - OpenOffice.org turns into a fake link, for example
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> and then you need ugly hacky code to prevent it
<Madpilot> is there a way to force Moin to *not* CamelCase-link?
<Burgundavia> I think so
<Burgundavia> no idea how
<Madpilot> it would be useful w/ OpenOffice.org - right now every time that gets mentioned, the wiki looks... less than competent
<Burgundavia> if I had control over the wiki, CamelCase would already have been dropped
<Burgundavia> mind you, we would also have been running mediawiki
<Burgundavia> which is designed for presentation docs
<Madpilot> why doesn't U run mediawiki? it's just as Free as Moin, AFAIK
<Burgundavia> because it is PHP
<Burgundavia> and Canonical has no PHP expertise
<Madpilot> what's the backend to Moin?
<Burgundavia> python
<Burgundavia> moin has 2 things going for it: speed and python
<Madpilot> ah, OK. Fair enough for Canonical, anyway.
<Burgundavia> for everything else, mediawiki kics the crap out of it
<cat> hey people
<Madpilot> hi
<cat> hey to help aroound on the project what do i have to do?
<Burgundavia> the wiki is a good place to start
<Madpilot> sign up at the wiki, find a page that needs some help!
<cat> oh ok
<Burgundavia> CategoryCleanup is a good place to start on the wiki
<cat> Burgundavia, ?
<Madpilot> cat  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCleanup
<Burgundavia> cat, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCleanup
<cat> ok
<cat> so when i picked a category what do i do?
<Burgundavia> find a page in that category and fix it
<cat> i'm sorry i'm kind of slow,
<cat> =)
<Burgundavia> that page lists other pages
<Burgundavia> all those pages need help in one way or another
<cat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/3Ware9xxxAsRoot?highlight=%28CategoryDocumentation%29
<cat> i'm there
<cat> i don't really see no other links
<Burgundavia> the category page lists pages taht need cleanup[
<Burgundavia> cat, you don't need to click on the first link
<Burgundavia> scroll down and pick something that you know about and that interests you
<cat> oh ok,
<cat> is there something else i can do?
<Burgundavia> you can pull down the svn stuff and start hacking on our docbook
<cat> where?
<Madpilot> write a new wiki page for something the wiki doesn't have but should?
<Burgundavia> the wiki is much much easier to get started on
<cat> oh
<cat> well like helping around packaging reporting bugs
<Madpilot> bugzilla.ubuntu.com for bugs
<Burgundavia> if you want to help with non-doc stuff, #ubuntu-love can help you with that
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: have you seen the lycoris page?
<Burgundavia> no, got a link?
<jsgotangco> http://www.lycoris.com/products/desktoplx/desktop/
<jsgotangco> this was before they got bought by mandriva
<jsgotangco> check out the flow of features
<Burgundavia> opening gets you a submenu?
<jsgotangco> well yeah its kinda dumb, but i wanted you to see how they wrote it
<Burgundavia> way too much clicking
<jsgotangco> no not really on the presentation, its more on how they wrote it
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> so basically this is a tour of their features
<Madpilot> I see Lycoris has gone the MS "My <everything>" route too... ;)
<jsgotangco> but we don't intend to be that specific unless we are making a marketing brochure
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: this was years ago
<jsgotangco> Madpilot: they used to be called Redmond Linux
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: interesting... still, the basic brochure style has some nice features
<Burgundavia> I find it massively click happy
<Burgundavia> takes too much effort to read
<Burgundavia> and their screenshots suck
<Madpilot> yeah, there isn't enough on each page - but the tone & basic copy is nice
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> their screenshots provide no context
<Madpilot> in terms of the whole desktop, you mean?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> the menu ones are the worst
<Burgundavia> I am left asking, where in the menu is this?
<Madpilot> they've been cropped down too much - and whatever tree/popout structure they've got isn't visible
<Burgundavia> here is another stupid thing
<Burgundavia> all their titles are verbs
<Burgundavia> http://www.lycoris.com/products/desktoplx/menu/pictures.php
<Burgundavia> until you hit that page
<Burgundavia> Creative is now a verb
<Burgundavia> got productive their as well
<Burgundavia> ok, I take that back, it is worse
<Burgundavia> they are a mix of some verbs and some adjectives
* Madpilot never knew Burgundavia was such a grammar geek...
<Burgundavia> it looks bad
<Burgundavia> choose one and stick with it
<Burgundavia> mdke, T43? not bad
* Burgundavia misses the muine notification area thingy
<Madpilot> no mono in Breezy yet, then?
<jsgotangco> T43?
<jsgotangco> IBM?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, just muine borked
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
<jsgotangco> mdke should have gotten the biggest laptop since he's just in london :)
<Burgundavia> he did
<Burgundavia> 6 pounds to our 6
<Burgundavia> 5
<jsgotangco> lol
<Burgundavia> mine is the lightest at just under 5, yours is 5.3
<jsgotangco> im subscribing to gnome-doc
<jsgotangco> it seems too quiet
<Burgundavia> it is very very very quiet
<jsgotangco> stir up the natives?
<Madpilot> cue the creepy music?
<Burgundavia> the only sounds are the big guns off shore, firing the string change notices
<jsgotangco> its not that quiet at least Luis responds over there
<Burgundavia> the only thing deader than gnome-doc is ubuntu-ca
<mdke> :)
<mdke> what have you guys got?
<Burgundavia> mdke, I got a Toshiba Tecra a5 and jsgotangco got a Toshiba Tecra M2
<mdke> what are they like?
<Burgundavia> very similar
<mdke> i have a heck of a lot of debugging to do ;)
<Burgundavia> lighter
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, has bluetooth
<Burgundavia> mine is a full pound lighter than yours
<Burgundavia> 14" screens
<mdke> ah
<mdke> well mine isn't too heavy, i quite like it
<mdke> it's sexy
<Burgundavia> mine is only 5 lbs
<Burgundavia> you have a fingerprint reader in yours
<mdke> yes
<mdke> but it's a pile of shit
<mdke> i get 3 tries for the power on password and it never reads my finger that quick
<jsgotangco> whoa
<mdke> ;)
<jsgotangco> you already got yours eh
<mdke> ratio is about 1 in 5
<mdke> yes it arrived yesterday
<jsgotangco> neat
<Burgundavia> mine comes tomorrow
<jsgotangco> did you jump for joy?
<mdke> hoary doesn't work too well on it
<jsgotangco> mdke: dont fret you'll  have windows in it for 3 releases
<Burgundavia> ironically, hoary worked better than colony 2 on my fathers laptop
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: tracking works?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no, but fedex told my gf that it will be victoria tomorrow
<jsgotangco> fedex?
<jsgotangco> thought it was TNT
<Burgundavia> tnt doesn't exist in NA
<jsgotangco> ohh
<Burgundavia> I assume they partner with fedex here
<jsgotangco> TNT is big over here
<jsgotangco> along with UPS
<mdke> i like mine, but the one thing I really can't stand is laptops that put their function key on the left of the Ctrl key
<mdke> grrrr
<jsgotangco> i dont like IBMs at all
<jsgotangco> i like touchpads
<mdke> this has a touchpad
<jsgotangco> and thinkpads have this useless LED on top of the lid that is supposed to illuminate the keyboard
<mdke> yes it has that
<jsgotangco> yeah its uselss the LCD is too bright
<mdke> heh
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, scorched 39 out today
<jsgotangco> so you are 1 happy campter heh
<Burgundavia> do we have any idea who else got a laptop?
<jsgotangco> robitaille?
<mdke> loads of people i think
<jsgotangco> dholbach
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> seb
<jsgotangco> ogra
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mdke> where is the list?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: cool. is it going to make breezy?
<mdke> how stupid do you have to be to put the function key on the left of the ctrl key
<mdke> argh!
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=56027
<Burgundavia> coolshould
<jsgotangco> mdke: thinkpads are nicely supported on kde though with the keybindings
<Madpilot> this list? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
<mdke> Madpilot, i think that is the list of applicants rather than the list of successful applicants
<mdke> unless it has been tidied since yesterday
<jsgotangco> we'll probably receive a test list when everything has been shipped
<Madpilot> ah, OK, I just tripped over it in the wiki earlier this evening
<mdke> hmm since installing hoary I can't get into the rescue partition any more
<Burgundavia> mdke, you can contact ibm and get cds
<Burgundavia> mdke, they don't ship them by default
<mdke> i made cd's
<mdke> i've been there before ;)
<jsgotangco> is that a lenovo?
<Burgundavia> it is now
<rob^> hmm our svn repo is about 200mb
<jsgotangco> it is
<Burgundavia> that includes 2 upstream vendor drops
<rob^> just burning a copy to cd to take to work soon
<rob^> kde's svn repo for its docs is only around 10mb
<jsgotangco> hmm there's nothing on tv except korean dramas
<mdke> jeez hardly anything works on this laptop
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, take a look at that forum link I just posted
<jsgotangco> k
<mdke> is there a team meeting tonight?
<jsgotangco> mdke: we had a quickie meeting a few hours ago
<jsgotangco> :)
<mdke> eh?
<jsgotangco> sorry i didnt say earlier
<jsgotangco> almost everyone was online
<mdke> ok
<mdke> perhaps planning would be an idea for the future
<mdke> will someone do a summary?
<rob^> w00t! McGrath is playing in the third test!
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: nice
<mdke> rob^, noooo
<jsgotangco> mdke: we just discussed what's the project status for people involved
<mdke> cheating aussie bastards
<rob^> our butts are saved!
<jsgotangco> cricket?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes. it also shows how we misleading the breezygoals page is
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
<rob^> aha
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, even an ignorant Canuck knows that
<mdke> ok jsgotangco but a meeting is needed which discusses the Yelp frontpage sooner or later, i also want to discuss what will become of the userguide
* Burgundavia brings out his stake
<rob^> still have the normal meeting this week then
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: this is full of erroneous info
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, did you see my post below?
<mdke> rob^, it's a bit late notice...
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> I was only here before for it by chance
<mdke> that's np, but its a bit late notice for a full meeting
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> mdke: we can arrange a quickie next week then
<rob^> I wont be here if you did
<jsgotangco> besides we have less than a month to go before freeze
<Burgundavia> a specific meeting about the yelp front page?
<jsgotangco> good idea
<mdke> next week sounds good
<rob^> early in the week maybe?
<jsgotangco> sure
* jsgotangco checks calendar
<rob^> come on stupid cd, I'm going to be late for work
<mdke> rob^, back to the cricket, you cheating aussies have clearly done that on purpose
<rob^> yeah, well we had to at least let you think you were in for a chance
<mdke> like we did last week ;)
<jsgotangco> cricket is a cheater's game?
<rob^> making it intresting
<mdke> jsgotangco, only for aussies
<Burgundavia> only if the aussies play it
<jsgotangco> lol
<Burgundavia> how else you can explain 60 years unbroken winning at the ashes?
<rob^> skill
<mdke> 15 years
<jsgotangco> how about august 17?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia has been spending too much time on the BBC website...
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, still the best news out there
<rob^> and the bad sports poms won't even let us take the trophy home
<jsgotangco> August 17 14UTC for special docteam meeting on Front Page finalization?
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> gets me up early
<rob^> midnight sunday
<rob^> nah, its ok I have a long weekend
<rob^> might be a bit drunk though, wifes birthday party that night :)
<mdke> dude august the 17 is a wednesday
<rob^> oops, I thought it said 14
<Burgundavia> 14:00 utc
<rob^> heh my mistake
<mdke> check out how many things aren't working on my laptop with hoary
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewEast/LaptopTestingHoary?action=show
<rob^> yeah thats ok, I'll be out of town though so I wont be here
<mdke> rob^, np a lot of the groundwork has been done by email
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> righto, gotta go to work now :...(
<mdke> bye
<mdke> will think of you during the cricket
<rob^> I'll be watching it at work
<rob^> :)
<mdke> bad thoughts...
<rob^> at least I'm getting paid to watch it...
<mdke> :p
<mdke> yeah that is cool
<Burgundavia> mdke, did you shrink your windows partition with the hoary installer?
<rob^> bye!
<mdke_> gah
<mdke_> what did i miss
<HrdwrBoB> everything
<Burgundavia> mdke, did you shrink your windows partition with the hoary installer?
<mdke> Burgundavia, yes
<Burgundavia> how did that go?
<mdke> ok i think, windows works
<Burgundavia> well, night all
<Burgundavia> job search tomorrow
<mdke> night
<jsgotangco> mdke: our quickie meetings are nothing compared to the quiickies of edubuntu meetings
<jsgotangco> brb
<jjesse> morning
<jjesse> did i miss the meeting again?
<mgalvin> g'morning all
<highvoltage> goodmorning
<jjesse> moring mgalvin 
<robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda   August 26th is a Friday, not a Thursday.  So is the next DocTeam meeting on the 25th or the 26th?
<jjesse> depends on what time zone you are in?
<robitaille> "Thursday, the 26th of August, 2005 at 14:00 UTC".  Usually docteam meetings are on Thursday...must be a typo on the date
<jjesse> hmm just noticed that
<mgalvin> is there still a need for the release notes doc since we are going to have the quick tour?
<mgalvin> i was looking through it with the intention of updating it, but a lot of the stuff in the release notes will be in the quick tour(which also looks a LOT nicer)
<mgalvin> thoughts?
<mgalvin> mpt: ping
<jjesse> mgalvin: hasn't been much said here for a long time :)
<mgalvin> ghost town
<jjesse> mgalvin: can i ask a simple question? in authors my name is spelled in correctly, i would like to create a new file and remove the mispelled file
<jjesse> how do i do this?
<mgalvin> jjesse: you can just - svn move mispelled correct
<mgalvin> then make sure any docs that use the mispelled file now point at the correctly spelled file
<jjesse> ok i'll work on it
<mgalvin> hey rob^
<rob^> hey
<mgalvin> i'll try and find some time when i get home to break out some more sections
<rob^> the faq guide is all yours for the next 10 hours
<mgalvin> k, cool
<rob^> cool
<mgalvin> i got the deb package all set too, hopefully we can start getting ubuntu-doc seeded into breezy soon
<mgalvin> later all
<mpt> Who here is running Breezy?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-17
<robitaille> mpt I do
<mpt> robitaille: Would you recommend getting a Colony CD and installing updates from there, or getting a Daily CD?
<mpt> (I.e., are Colony CDs considerably more likely to work at all?)
<robitaille> I believe the last Colony was #2 from early July; very old, with broken X in in.  I would go for the daily CD.
<mpt> ok, thanks
<jsgotangco> hi
<Madpilot> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi robitaille, mgalvin 
<mgalvin> hey jsgotangco
<mgalvin> time for bed, g'night all
<Madpilot> exciting conversations we have here in -doc, hey? ;)
<HrdwrBoB> I'm excited
<Madpilot> yeah, but that's probably just by the recent spate of idiocy over in main #ubuntu...
* Madpilot wanders off, muttering about repositories and sudo and people who won't listen...
<HrdwrBoB> haha yes
<Madpilot> sorry, it's just good to vent a bit - and if I did that on the main chan bob2 would kick my butt right off...
<robitaille> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> robitaille, did you get your laptop model?
<robitaille> jsgotangco:  no.  Haven't heard anything yet.  What did you get?
<jsgotangco> Tecra M2
<robitaille> it feels like Christmas :)
<jsgotangco> i wonder if this is updated
<jsgotangco> http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/tasks.html
<robitaille> " Last modified 2003/03/25 03:15:32 UTC."
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> very nice
<jsgotangco> there is very very little love at all
<mdke> hi all
<jsgotangco> hey
<Madpilot> hi all - and bye, I'm just heading off to sleep!
<mdke> hi and bye :)
<jsgotangco> mdke, docteam.ubuntu.com is alive
<mdke> no way
<jsgotangco> yes way i see Apache 
<mdke> ah that's just the old address
<jsgotangco> m?
<mdke> that is not our linode
<jsgotangco> what is this? the svn?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> i think so
<robitaille> mdke: nice laptop
<mdke> robitaille, :)
<jsgotangco> ouch and i thought it was already alive
<mdke> what's yours?
<mdke> my laptop is boned on hoary though
<robitaille> mdke:  haven't received mine...don't know yet what I'm getting :(
<mdke> ah
<mdke> ask claire
<mdke> you know within about 10 minutes of writing that wiki page, I got an email from a guy telling me how to resolve loads of the problems.
<mdke> that was nice of him
<jsgotangco> robitaille, you're getting the biggest one at 8lbs
<jsgotangco> heh
<robitaille> mdke was supposed to get the biggest since he was the closest to London :)
<robitaille> I'll ask Claire on Monday.  Don't want to show too much that I'm jealous of all the others who have their already 
<mdke> heh
<jsgotangco> i dont have mine yet either but on the 17th
<jsgotangco> corey's getting an A5
<jsgotangco> hmm monsoon rains galore here lately
<robitaille> hmmm can't remember the last time it rained in Victoria (must have been a couple of months ago)
<jsgotangco> how big is the population of Victoria?
<robitaille> just over 300,000
<jsgotangco> WOW
<robitaille> yeah...that big :)
<jsgotangco> if things go well we might be moving there nex year (in canada)
<mdke> wow
<mdke> good thinking jsgotangco 
<robitaille> jsgotangco:  that's great.  your loco team needs new blood :)
<robitaille> s/your/our
<mdke> and his too
<jsgotangco> i dont think my wife is too keen on moving to a city with a 300,000 pop though :)
<robitaille> Vancouver is 1.7mil, and only 40kms from here.  (but the ferry ride is a  big long...)
<jsgotangco> 1.7M still isnt big
<jsgotangco> ottawa is probably the same no?
<robitaille> Vancouver 3rd biggest city  in Canada :)
<robitaille> I think Ottawa is probably in the 500,000 range
<jsgotangco> jeeezz whats the total population? 30M?
<robitaille> 33mil
<jsgotangco> and its the 2nd largest country in the world
<jsgotangco> Manila alone already has 14mil people
<robitaille> I wouldn't live in most of it...too cold 
<jsgotangco> i got to read that island dispute with denmark
<jsgotangco> heh
<robitaille> well...it's our piece of rock.  End of the story :)
<jsgotangco> hah
* robitaille is a bit biased
<jsgotangco> its no bigger than a cricket field
<robitaille> potential for oil is the magic word...and access to shipping lanes.   There is also a border dispute in the waters just off Victoria between us and the US.  But that one doesn't have either, so it's not a problem.
<jsgotangco> ahh have you heard of the spratleys, over here its being disputed by china, taiwan, philippines, vietnam, malaysia
<jsgotangco> every country took an island/s and all of em have military personnel
<jsgotangco> oil companies don't want to do research on the islands because it'll spark a war for sure
<robitaille> yeah...that's a bit scary with all these military powers.  Just sent an email to Claire.  I had to ask about my laptop before going to bed :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> heh
<robitaille> going to bed...
<jsgotangco> night
<jsgotangco> hmm lots of patches
<jsgotangco> e
<jsgotangco> bye
<WaterSevenUb> hey... what's the status of the quickguide in breezy?
<mdke> WaterSevenUb, we're making a new guide, quickguide will not ship with breezy
<WaterSevenUb> mdke: hhmm.. interesting, is there any version online already I can have a look at? Will it be completely different?
<mdke> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuickTourDraft
<mdke> so yeah, completely different
<mdke> you can see our projects here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
<WaterSevenUb> mdke: I'm a translator... The QuickTour will be merged with Rosetta around.... ? any date? :)
<mdke> WaterSevenUb, after string freeze at the beginning of september
<mdke> we will advertise it don't worry
<WaterSevenUb> mdke: thanks!:) can you tell me about that string freeze? It's a freeze of... ?
<mdke> there is a certain date when we stop changing documentation
<mdke> that is called freeze
<mdke> the documentation should be ready by then
<WaterSevenUb> mdke: ok.. only documentation.
<mdke> everything has freeze times
<WaterSevenUb> mdke: and then there is a "translation" freeze? 
<mdke> no
<WaterSevenUb> :)
<mdke> translation is added via updates
<mdke> if it is not ready for release
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
<WaterSevenUb> mdke: thx
<mdke> WaterSevenUb, np
<jsgotangco> hi
<jjesse> jsgotangco hello 
<jsgotangco> jjesse: hey hows it going
<jjesse> slow
<jjesse> issues at awork today :(
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> hope it gets resolved for you soon
<mgalvin> hi jsgotangco
<jjesse> grin thanks
<jsgotangco> i just arrived home after going out
<jsgotangco> i met some friends and did some chit chat
<jsgotangco> its nice to have some time lately
<jjesse> thanks sounds like fun, looking forward to tonight for doing the same
<jjesse> but got first game of softball tournment first
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: claire sent me an email saying that its Target Express, not TNT
<jsgotangco> hence the reason why the tracking number doesn't work
<jsgotangco> jjesse: what was the doc you were doing?
<jsgotangco> robitaille: morning to you
<jjesse> kuserguide
<jsgotangco> jjesse: how is it going?
<jjesse> good i finished configuring desktop section and started on athe users section
<jjesse> hopefully this weekend i'll have sometime to work on it
<robitaille> good morning jsgotangco:   so I'm getting a Dell... don't know the model yet
<jsgotangco> wow
<jjesse> so the goal is to finish the users section and then figure out where to start next
<jsgotangco> robitaille: sent by Target Express?
<jjesse> robitaille: i've had no problems w/ my Dell and Ubuntu and Kubuntu
<jsgotangco> jjesse: keep in your calendar that Documentation String Freeze is on Sept. 8
<robitaille> I don't have any detail.  According to Claire, Dell is really slow.
<jjesse> does that inclue the doc freeze for kubuntu?
<jsgotangco> yes of course
<jjesse> cool adding it to my calendar
<jsgotangco> UI Freeze is on the 25th this month
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule for reference
<jsgotangco> robitaille: Dell generally works
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: your method works on x86?
<jjesse> robitaille: like i said i've had no issues w/ my dell
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: for 20050812.2? yes
<mgalvin> eth0 will still not come up after rebooting, so you would have to dhclient after every reboot until it is fixed
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> ok i'll try that in a few minutes im already burning the iso
<jjesse> is that the daily build?
<mgalvin> i didn't get crazy looking for the perfect solution since it should be fixed soon, dhclient was the first thing i tried... it worked so i looked no further
<jsgotangco> yes, just after feature freeze
<mgalvin> jjesse, yes
<mgalvin> we should have colony 3 any day now, as soon as these lingering issues are fixed
<jsgotangco> initramfs
<mgalvin> its in there
<jjesse> mmmm lunch time see you all in 30 mins :)
<mgalvin> the splash screen doesn't show up under vmware though so i haven't seen it yet :(
<mgalvin> will try on my physical machine when i get home
<jsgotangco> good night all
<jjesse> night jsgotangco
* Burgundavia begins installing hoary on his new laptop
<mdke> :)
<mdke> hope you have more luck than me :p
<Burgundavia> first I have to catch at the right time
<Burgundavia> there
<Burgundavia> well, it sees the whole screen
<Burgundavia> first roadblock
<Burgundavia> no network interfaces detected
<mdke> heh
<Burgundavia> I just ignored that
<Burgundavia> grub installed correctly, and it detected XP Pro
<Burgundavia> first boot
<mdke> do you know how I can change my answer to the question "is your hardware clock set to GMT?" after installation?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> I wish I did
<Burgundavia> because I answered that wrong on my old machine as well
<mdke> i've changed my answer
<Burgundavia> ask in -devel
<mdke> since discovering that windows can't handle GMT
<Burgundavia> linux keeps the clock at gmt and does the change in software, windows changes the hardware clock
<mdke> i'll try #ubuntu
<mdke> ok sudo base-config
<Burgundavia> ok
<mdke> night
<Burgundavia> night
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-18
<jsgotangco> hi
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> did you see the post about Laptop testing?
<jsgotangco> i see you have already received yours
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i just woke up half an hour ago
<Burgundavia> already running hoary
<jsgotangco> how did it go?
<jsgotangco> how do you make a /foo page from an existing wiki entry?
<jsgotangco> wow sladen's report is really comprehensive!
<Burgundavia> link ["/FooSubPage"] 
<jsgotangco> ahh so \sh is getting a portege
<jsgotangco> that's less than 2lbs!
<Burgundavia> oh?
<jsgotangco> yeah i saw it on his blog
<Burgundavia> hmm, I seem to be getting random freezes
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> I need to blog about my gift as well
<Burgundavia> going to work this weekend on the Quick tour
<jsgotangco> same here i'll rip up some work later
<jsgotangco> the weather isn't too great at the moment
<Burgundavia> sunny and 26 here
<jsgotangco> its already the rainy season over here
<rob^> are you looking for help testing laptops Burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> rob^, if you have one and think you can be very rigous, join the team
<Burgundavia> rob^, canonical shipped laptops to us to get tested
<jsgotangco> yeah mjg59 can't do it all
<Burgundavia> rob^, if you think you can test it as thoroughly as they are expected us to
<jsgotangco> well they are supposed to be test units to us for 3 releases...
<jsgotangco> and take care of Windows as well
<Burgundavia> ugh
<jsgotangco> i should update my blog
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, are you syndicated on p.u.c?
<jsgotangco> nope
<jsgotangco> should i be?
<Burgundavia> talk to jdub
<Burgundavia> no reason not to be. after all, I am there
<jsgotangco> ok i'll ask him when i get to see him on irc
<Burgundavia> he is almost in the same timezone as you
<rob^> I wish I had a laptop
<rob^> would make writing a lot easier
<Burgundavia> so would bazaar
<rob^> at the moment I'm running sygwin on a Windows NT box, using u2d and d2u to convert our .xml files and editing them in notepad
<Burgundavia> ouch
<rob^> from an Xlivecd
<rob^> yeah not wrong
<jsgotangco> ok see you guys later, i have to go back to my dentist (ouch)
<Burgundavia> poor bastard
<jsgotangco> yeah, getting old sucks
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, how old are you?
<jsgotangco> ill be 31 on Aug. 28
<Burgundavia> oh. I am only 22
<Burgundavia> I feel so young
<jsgotangco> i have been doing linux since rh 5.2
<jsgotangco> but only got involved lately
<Burgundavia> ah
<Razor-X> hmmm?
<rob^> ah red hat 5
<Burgundavia> I started with RH 8
<rob^> brings back memories
<jsgotangco> rob^: yeah those were the days of manually configuring xfree86
<rob^> configuring sound with that command line app and hearing linus' voice
<rob^> pronounce linux
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Razor-X> Debian Woody is where I started
<jsgotangco> you had to pay for decent sound back then
<rob^> what year was rh5 released again?
<Razor-X> I had to do a floppy install
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> hmm 97 or 98
<rob^> I thought so
<Razor-X> because the 486 on which I installed Debian on had it's CD removed because it had only 2 IDE ports on the motherboard
<jsgotangco> i even bought caldera open linux
<jsgotangco> but caldera was good back then
<jsgotangco> until rh 6.2 came out with E
<rob^> yes, I had an "open circulation edition" of caldera
<rob^> gui installers mmmm
<rob^> and the game of tetris at the end
<jsgotangco> yeah haha
<jsgotangco> jeez
<rob^> ok I gtg out shopping now
<rob^> cys
<jsgotangco> same here
<rob^> cyas
<Burgundavia> someone suggested playing games on our installer
<jsgotangco> later
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: it was done before
<Burgundavia> ya
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: but we only have a text installer
<jsgotangco> unless we add a typing game
<rob^> add tuxracer
<rob^> hehe
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: we can also show some notes instead
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> hi all
<jsgotangco> well k i really haveto go cya
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia - swearing at XP yet?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> I have spent about 5 minutes in XP
<Madpilot> thought you had the lappie already?
<Burgundavia> I did
<Burgundavia> I have already installed Hoary
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5
<Madpilot> ah, cool. so swearing at Hoary instead? ;)
<Burgundavia> sort of
<Burgundavia> got some random crashes
<Madpilot> yeah, just reading your reporting page
<Madpilot> did they give the same model to more than one person?
<Burgundavia> shouldn't of
<Burgundavia> that would be a waste
<Madpilot> no? makes it a bit harder to seperate user issues and/or hardware issues from Ubuntu-issues, then
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> the people they have shipped the laptops to are likely to know what they are doing
<Madpilot> true enough - any idea how many they shipped?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> we will find out very soon though
<Burgundavia> going to do that to dads laptop when he gets back as well
<Burgundavia> and the other ones of dads I have sitting here
<Madpilot> good idea. you've already tried the live CD on Dad's new sony, haven't you/
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> but I haven't tested as thoroughly as I have this one
<Madpilot> Dad might require some convincing to let you mess with his primary work computer...
<Burgundavia> not going to install
<Madpilot> just test via LiveCD?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Madpilot> why to run Linux, reason #45,354: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4745053.stm
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> unfortunately, whoever wrote that didn't mention that those are exclusively windows issues
<Madpilot> the Beeb used to refer to "Windows viruses" - wonder if MS coughed meaningfully?
<Burgundavia> never know
<Burgundavia> likely the reporter was different or thought they were not only writing about viruses
<Madpilot> guess so, and of course "home computer = Windows comuter" for most ppl...
<Burgundavia> for 95% of the world
<Madpilot> yeah. Did you see that Brazillian Ubuntu Bus article in forums?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> and lwn and planet.ubuntu and some mailing list I am on
<Madpilot> yeah, I found it via planet.ubuntu too
<Madpilot> heh - Tim Berners-Lee is a Unitarian... http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/news/0,12597,1547447,00.html?gusrc=rss
<Madpilot> so I bought a new printer today - haven't plugged it in yet. HP Deskjet somelongnumber - linuxprinting.org gave it high marks
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> bloody hell, now that beagle works, it is now eating all my ram again
<Madpilot> bad dog! no more RAM!
<Burgundavia> geez
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> beagled had eaten so much of my ram my machine basically was unresponsive
<Burgundavia> and any mono app is currently borked, so I am going to restart the machine
<Madpilot> for the first time in how many days?
<Burgundavia> a very long time. Beagled has mostly been non-working until recently
<Madpilot> ... why I don't do beta apps...
<Burgundavia> actually, it is only blam that does it
<Madpilot> my current uptime is almost 3 days - damned power outage almost three days ago! ;)
<Burgundavia> you got that too?
<Burgundavia> we had it as well
<Madpilot> "im not really an idiot, but i do play one on the internet" <-- just went past on main channel. 
<Madpilot> we've had a bunch of short power outages in the last two weeks or so 
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> quite annoying
<Madpilot> the one when you were here, and two since then
<Burgundavia> they have affected me as well
<Burgundavia> we were the south edge of it
<Madpilot> irritating
<Madpilot> actually I've got to shut this machine down this weekend, I want to clear those two old drives off before I sell them
<Burgundavia> I want my old 20 back if you don't need it
<Burgundavia> I will need it for my server
<Madpilot> ya, sure. I'm selling the other one to Cam. poor drive
<Madpilot> ;)
<Madpilot> assuming one or both isn't borked, of course...
<Burgundavia> reformat them both
<Burgundavia> that should mark any errors
<Madpilot> will do - but will that work with fat32 formatting?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I will be back in a second or maybe longer if my machine doesn't come back up
<Madpilot> OK, good. 
<Burgundavia> hey, it came back up and quickly
<HrdwrBoB> :o
<Burgundavia> but all mono apps are still borked
<Burgundavia> alright, one sort of funny blog post written
<Madpilot> what're you drinking tonight, Burgundavia?
<Madpilot> "great flaming sword of organization" indeed...
<Burgundavia> do you follow my rss directly?
<Madpilot> no, I just found an old planet entry of yours and direct to your (ugly) blog
<Burgundavia> I will be moved to my own server eventually
<Madpilot> in the meantime, can't you drop a stylesheet on your advogato blog? it needs something to cover it up!
<Burgundavia> don't think so
<Madpilot> too bad...
<Burgundavia> relieved or releived?
<Madpilot> i before e, except when some damn exception says otherwise, remember?
<Burgundavia> ya ya
<Burgundavia> didn't trust my thinking
<Madpilot> <evil grin> I found a pic you can use for your icon-thingie on planet.ubuntu: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/uglydog.jpg
<Burgundavia> ugh
<Burgundavia> can you do some gimp-foo for me?
<Madpilot> on the dog? sure
<Burgundavia> good XP is ugly
<Burgundavia> no
<Madpilot> no dog pic? what on, then?
<Burgundavia> http://www.weav.bc.ca/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=11&cat=0&pos=40
<Burgundavia> s/good/god
<Madpilot> that pic of you? with little planet-style dropshadow thingie? can do
<Madpilot> I can even get rid of the redeye, probably
<Burgundavia> thanks
<Burgundavia> windows is even uglier with non-fisher price crap
<Burgundavia> gah
<Burgundavia> I also have 10 icons in my notification area
<Madpilot> and you have to pay *extra money* for a 3rd party util to reskin the bugger
* Madpilot goes and changes Gnome themes, just because he can...
<Burgundavia> sweet, my wireless is atheros
<Burgundavia> that means it is going to work
* Burgundavia is slowly loosing the fight to install a game on his ubuntu laptop
<Burgundavia> s/ubuntu/xp
<poningru> damn I finally made it back
<poningru> sorry guys but my work on docs stopped about 2 weeks ago
<poningru> and wont start again unless I can find time during college
<Burgundavia> np
<Burgundavia> RL is more important
<poningru> RL?
<poningru> real life
<poningru> hehe true
<poningru> well I am recruiting people at the local lug
<poningru> but I was kinda hoping to join the laptop testing team before college started
<poningru> I have a Presario 2100 Compaq
<poningru> if the testing can be boiled down to something like an hour per week
<Burgundavia> joining the team needs a lot of work
<poningru> I am sure I can manage
<poningru> ooph
<Burgundavia> probably an hour a week would probaby be all ou would need
<poningru> oh
<Burgundavia> a couple of hours at first
<Burgundavia> to test everypiece of hardware
<poningru> yeah I am willing to do that
<Burgundavia> every button, etc.
<Burgundavia> then just reinstall on each new release
<poningru> I have tested the crap out of this one
<poningru> xev etc.
<poningru> whats the process to get on the team?
<Burgundavia> you join
<Burgundavia> the part where they handed out free laptops is over
<poningru> well I dont want free laptops
<poningru> I already have one
<poningru> how do I join?
* poningru is confoozled
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
<Burgundavia> add yourself to that page
<Burgundavia> and create a subpage
<poningru> ok
<Burgundavia> see what we have done
<poningru> ah ic
<poningru> but what about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Requests
<poningru> the people down there
<poningru> maybe someone should contact them
<poningru> most people there seem to have their own laptops
<poningru> and are willing to use it to test
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> I just moved the page today
<poningru> ah ic
<Burgundavia> poningru, what is US?
<Burgundavia> poningru, the key part about contact is that you can be reached
<poningru> dont know
<poningru> ah ok
<Burgundavia> [""]  will link Poningru
<poningru> I guess I can put up an user page
<poningru> or just link to my email addy
<Burgundavia> better to create a user page
<poningru> anyway about the US
<poningru> the model number of the laptop is Presario 2140US
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<poningru> but there is a general model number Presario 2100
<poningru> dont know why there are two
<Burgundavia> more specific is better
<poningru> I am pretty sure the US is the keyboard layout
<Burgundavia> hardware might change
<poningru> but dont know about the 40 part
<poningru> hmm true
<Burgundavia> the model number you want to report is the one that one would see int eh store
<Burgundavia> which is often different from the one on the bottom of the machine
<poningru> sigh
<poningru> I will do this tommorow
<mdke> morning
<Burgundavia> morning
<mdke> hey you moved my laptop page
<Burgundavia> yes I did
<Burgundavia> read your mail
<mdke> i see it
<mdke> but why?
<mdke> not everyone will do their laptop reports on the wiki
<robitaille> but the ones that do it will be easy to find
<Burgundavia> mdke, if they don't, I am certain they will be hunted down
<mdke> Burgundavia, the instructions simply say "in a format which can be submitted"
<Burgundavia> yes
<mdke> oh well
<mdke> whatever
<mdke> if you want to do the maintenance work :p
<Burgundavia> it is still your page
<Burgundavia> this makes it easy for the community to see what we are doing, the other side of laptop testing
<Burgundavia> because we can point people there when they ask how laptops work with Ubuntu
<mdke> a link on LaptopTestingTeam would have achieved that
<mdke> but i don't have a problem
<mdke> so now do I have to do all the tests on one page? for hoary, and all the breezy releases?
<mdke> i planned to do them on separate pages
<Burgundavia> you can do as you like
<Burgundavia> I think one page is better for readability
* robitaille just can't wait to actually have his laptop to start testing it....
<mdke> i'm definitely gonna make several pages, one page with like 10 reports on will be insane
<Burgundavia> I was going to have 2 reports
<Burgundavia> a hoary one and a running breezy one
<mdke> ah
<Burgundavia> both on the same page
<Burgundavia> no need to report every colony release
<mdke> we have to test each release (colony 2, any more colonies, preview releases, final release) and then the same for breezy +1
<Burgundavia> unless there is a regression
<mdke> Burgundavia, the contract you signed says that you do
<robitaille> I thought you were supposed to report every colony release...
<Burgundavia> yes, but not once the next colony is out
<mdke> This should be repeated for each development snapshot released, the preview release, the release candidate and the final release.
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingConditions
<Burgundavia> the developers only care about the latest development release
<Burgundavia> so just mention that this is against Colony XYZ in the title of the breezy section
<Burgundavia> and update as needed for each release
<robitaille> but you have to issue a new report for each colony; might as well keep it around for documentation sake
<mdke> dude
<mdke> you have to follow the instructions given
<Burgundavia> I intend to test for every release
<Burgundavia> I just don't care about whether or not Colony 2 works when colony 3 is out
<Burgundavia> nor do the developers
<mdke> well you need to make the report in a format to be submitted
<Burgundavia> it is, right there!
<Burgundavia> you want to see what the latest state of my laptop, yyou can see it
<Burgundavia> no need to figure out which is newer
<Burgundavia> after the breezy is stable, that is different
<Burgundavia> then I need 3 reports
<mdke> up to you
<mdke> i will be following the instructions
<mdke> since it doesn't hurt me to do so
<Burgundavia> honestly, telling them wireless works in 3 and was broken in 2 can be mentioned inline
<Burgundavia> doesn't need another whole report
<mdke> i understand your view, but that is not what you were asked
<Burgundavia> if you read it, it merely asks you that you install the release within 2 days of a release
<Burgundavia> and that you submit the data
<Burgundavia> it doesn't say you need to keep old and useless data around
<mdke> ok well as long as you submit it
<Burgundavia> I intend to
<Burgundavia> that is point of collecting it all on one page
<mdke> awesome I've had emails from 2 people with help on the thinkpad
<Burgundavia> easy to see where people are at
<Burgundavia> the be honest, the wiki is probaby the best form of reporting for the developers, provided it is backed up with bug reports
<Burgundavia> mdke, robitaille how did you see yourself submitting reports? paper forms?
<Burgundavia> I would love to standardize the pages so they all look the same
<robitaille> I thought it was going to be by emails;  with a copy on the wiki for the sake of everyone else.
<mdke> wiki pages here
<Burgundavia> to whom?
<robitaille> not sure.
<Burgundavia> the people that are going to be fixing it read the bugzilla
<mdke> to claire, mjg and mdk
<Burgundavia> and maybe the wiki
<mdke> mdk/mdz
<Burgundavia> the developers really only care about what is broken
<Burgundavia> what works in for marketing
<Burgundavia> hence the standard pages
<robitaille> maybe this should be made clear.  I don't think everyone uses the wiki.  /sh reported on his laptop on his blog; and I can't rmeember seeing him editing a wiki page
<Burgundavia> I don't consider it unreasonable to make people edit a wiki page
<robitaille> maybe as an email to ubuntu-devel?  or that would be too much spam-like?
<Burgundavia> ugh
<Burgundavia> again, the developers don't need this in their face unless it is broken
<mdke> you can link to blogs on the wiki
<mdke> no problem
<Burgundavia> ugh
<Burgundavia> part of this is also marketing
<Burgundavia> we need to remember that
<robitaille> anyway I'm going to bed;  I finally found a bug to close in Malone.  THat's my cue to log off :)
<mdke> nice
<Burgundavia> buy this laptop because ubuntu works and we can prove it!
<Burgundavia> mdke, I had an idea for your page. If you want to keep the old reports around, keep you main page as the latest breezy and hoary
<Burgundavia> mdke, and just copy your old reports to archives
<mdke> i'll see how it pans out
<Burgundavia> yes
<mdke> i will put some hardware info on the main page i think
<mdke> then do the reports on subpages
* Burgundavia grumbles about mono
<mdke> gtg need to find a house
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> night all
<martinald> hi guys!
<martinald> i posted to the ubuntu -devel list about breezy marketing and was told to join you here
<martinald> anyone around?
<martinald> hello?
<martinald> anyone around?
<HrdwrBoB> yeah
<martinald> hi guys
<martinald> anyone still here?
<mgalvin> hey martinald
<martinald> hey!
<mgalvin> how it going
<martinald> not bad.
<martinald> yourself?
<mgalvin> pretty good
<mgalvin> have you had a chance to look at the doc team wiki yet?
<martinald> i'm looking at it now
<mgalvin> k, cool
<martinald> so what's needing the most attention
<mgalvin> well, the faqguide, rob^ and i work on and it almost done, but feel free to work on anything you would like to
<mgalvin> i jump around abit and work on many different things
<mgalvin> um, the about-ubunt and release notes still need some more updating...
<mgalvin> additionally if you have marking type stuff you want to do, make a wiki page for it called something like MarketingSpec and start putting your ideas there
<mgalvin> so we can all see it and start helping you with it
<martinald> right, will do.
<mgalvin> i have to run to the store... will be back in a little bit, see you later
<martinald> ok
<martinald> cya
<martinald> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyMarketing is my first effort
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-19
<rob^> its so cold
<Burgundavia> oh you poor man
<Burgundavia> some of us live where it is actually cold
* rob^ just bought a new wool doona yesterday
<rob^> omg it's 11C here 
<Burgundavia> you poor bastard
<rob^> hey, is ubuntu still sending out laptops for the testing spec?
<Burgundavia> don't think so
<mpt> Burgundavia: Maybe you could clarify the wiki page to that effect, describing what other people with laptops can do to help
<mpt> I tried to ask mjg59 about it the other day, but had to leave before he answered
<mpt> and you know the laptop pages well now
<rob^> grr @ spliting up the faq and it not working
<Burgundavia> mpt, will do tomorrow
<mpt> thanks
<jsgotangco> hi
<martinald> hi all
<martinald> quick question: is breezy going to use the gnome default clearlooks theme or will it use an 'ubuntu-ized' one?
<robitaille> mdke: ping
<Burgundavia> robitaille, you received your laptop yet?
<robitaille> not yet... it's a Dell and according to Claire, Dell is really slow.  I don't even have a model type :(
<Burgundavia> ah
<robitaille> what did you use to resize your NTFS partition?  WindowsDualBootHowTo seems to imply that Hoary's installer doesn't work for that
<Burgundavia> it does
<Burgundavia> some have had issue though
<robitaille> should we change the wiki page?
<robitaille> in the past I have used Knoppix to resize partition, but with the Laptop I was hoping to go the Ubuntu-only route
<Burgundavia> WindowsDual boot is for warty I think
<robitaille> look at the last line: "Note: According to [WWW]  this page NTFS Resize is part of the Ubuntu 5.04 partitioner, however partman/parted on the ubuntu-installer-5.04 does not support NTFS partitions."
<Burgundavia> I am going to be producing a standard wiki page layout the reporting soon
<robitaille> that would be great.  Everyone is doing all the organizing work before I get my own so that everthing will be organized by the time it's my turn to report :)
<robitaille> have you seen this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences/BrochureCopy
<Burgundavia> no
<robitaille> I thought Jerome had done a 2-page brochure in the past....
* robitaille is back subscribing at the whole wiki :)
<robitaille> ...and the whole bugzilla... should bug LP people to be able to subscribe at Malone
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> wow, the LaptopTestingTeam page is filling up nicely
<Burgundavia> need to get my report form done
<robitaille> do we know many laptops were sent?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Madpilot> hi all
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot 
<Flonne> Okay, so, like, I've been gone all summer, and chances are nobody recognizes me anymore, but I've managed to secure a reliable Internet connection.
<mdke> robitaille, sup
<Burgundavia> Flonne, your name rings bells
<Flonne> Thanks. :)
<Flonne> I kinda forgot that I'd have to pay for things once school ended
<robitaille> mdke:  what did you use to resize your ntfs partition on your laptop?
<Burgundavia> mdke, I clarified with mjg59. You don't need to keep old reports around. Just note any changes from the previous release (regressions, now works)
<mdke> robitaille, the hoary installer
<robitaille> mdke: ok.  I was reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WindowsDualBootHowTo  and it seemed to imply that it didn't work.  Maybe we should change it.
<mdke> robitaille, it works ok yes
<Burgundavia> robitaille, there is a bug open for it. seems to not work for some peoplel
<robitaille> (which I would do if I ever get that laptop :) 
<Flonne> I'm reading through all e-mail missed over the summer, so hopefully I should be able to start contributing again sometime this week. But I'm not dead, just in case someone actually cares. ^^
<mdke>  [21:26:36]  < Burgundavia> I am going to be producing a standard wiki page layout the reporting soon
<mdke> Burgundavia, you will be taking decisions about what everyone should do?
<mdke> seems a touch forward
<Burgundavia> mdke, mjg59 and I will be working together on this
<Burgundavia> I offered to create one and he jumped at it
<mdke> ok i'll leave you to work
<Burgundavia> you can comment as well
<mdke> no thanks
<mdke> i need to test my laptop
<Flonne> mdke, is testing open? I've got three laptops here and nothing better to do while catching up.
<Burgundavia> Flonne, yes
<Burgundavia> mdke, robitaille https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5 <-- can I have comments?
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  I'll check it later today...I have to go.
<Burgundavia> robitaille, np
<mdke> Flonne, testing is always open
<Flonne> The article contains a number of minor grammatical errors and some typos, if that's what you mean.
<mdke> Burgundavia, here is what I intended to do, although it's not fleshed out yet. I think it's a bit clearer
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ThinkpadT43
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> mdke, so a seperate page for each release and a summary of current issues?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> i don't like all those tables of different widths
<mdke> i've put in some example current problems if you refresh the page
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> hmm
<mdke> i've yet to test breezy so many problems might be solved already
<Flonne> Breezy, which I'm running on this laptop, is a bit... broken. You might want to wait.
<Burgundavia> mdke, take a look at the page now
<mdke> which?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5
<Burgundavia> I think that is best of both worlds
<Burgundavia> the complete hardware rundown with a quick section for current issues
<mdke> i still don't like the tables
<Burgundavia> I think I can fix their width
<Burgundavia> or make them all one big table
<Madpilot> you should be able to fix widths - or you could in real HTML, no idea with wiki markup...
<mdke> yeah i'm not sure you can do it in moin
<Burgundavia> mdke, is the issue the tables themselves or that they are different sizes?
<mdke> for me both, but its an opinion i guess
<Burgundavia> tables can be ugly, but they also provide quick information
<Burgundavia> as long as we provide a notes section
<mdke> that's why I don't think its a good thing to provide a template that people MUST use
<mdke> people can do things differently
<Burgundavia> and I like your idea of current issues at the top
<Burgundavia> mdke, but the goal of the testing team is standard answers to standard questions
<mdke> that is what I've done in the report
<mdke> i followed the Spec exactly
<mdke> AFAICS your report does not follow the Spec
<mdke> anyhow, as long as things are clear and getting into bugzilla, i don't think its a big deal
<Burgundavia> in what way?
<Burgundavia> the spec is "Test every device on the machine"
<mdke> erm
<mdke> there are specific questions
<Burgundavia> yes there are
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingSpec
<mdke> Basic Hardware Test, Advanced Hardware Test, Power Management Test
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I have merely organized the data in a different way
<mdke> quite
<mdke> which i have no problem with
<Burgundavia> the spec if very wordy
<mdke> but I did it that way
<mdke> i don't think you should have a problem with people doing it differently, as long as it is clear
<Burgundavia> mjg59 wants a standard form
<Burgundavia> if he doesn't like mine, we will work out the issues
<Madpilot> can someone remind me where the Ubuntu Glossary is? Not a wiki page, and I can't find it in the non-wiki Documentation so far...
<mdke> google tells you
<mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/glossary/document_view
<Madpilot> mdke: thanks
<mdke> Burgundavia, afaics mjg and others worked on the Spec for that very reason
<mdke> to establish a standard form
<Burgundavia> yes
<mdke> oh well whatever
<Burgundavia> mdke, night
<mdke> night
<mdke> Burgundavia, last thought
<mdke> how about including both hoary and breezy in your table
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> ok, I will try that
<mdke> works in stable? (yes/no), works in unstable? (yes/no)
<Burgundavia> ok
<mdke> otherwise it will be a huge page with lots of cumbersome tables
<Burgundavia> yes
<mdke> damn that guy in -devel is noisy
<Burgundavia> Diablo?
<Burgundavia> yes
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-20
<mpt> How do I tell what's in Breezy main without installing it?
<Burgundavia> packages.ubuntu.com
<mpt> tomboy, hoary universe only
<mpt> oh, bad default form
<Burgundavia> yes
<mpt> tomboy, breezy main
<Burgundavia> indeed
<mpt> Would tomboy be the only app in main that doesn't require you to Save your work?
<Burgundavia> probably
<mpt> ok
* mpt changes an "all" to a "most" :-)
<Burgundavia> what are you working on?
<mpt> <section id="saving"><title>Saving documents</title>
<Burgundavia> which doc?
<mpt> Ubuntu Help
<mpt> How does <link> work in DocBook?
<mpt> It's not in DocteamDocbookTags (which is probably a bad sign)
<Burgundavia> no idea
<mpt> ah, http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html-ng/link.html
<mpt> "endterm"
<mpt> that was, like, totally obvious
<mpt> oh, "linkend"
<mpt> ewwwww
<mpt> The yelp XSL or whatever it is really needs some work
<mpt> I don't want "Section 4.4 - Changing the name of an item", I want "Changing the name of an item"
<Burgundavia> sorry, canna help ya
<mpt> It's a froud job, I guess
<mpt> Is he in or out of the Ubuntu Doc team this week?
<Burgundavia> jeffsch or jerome might also be able to help you
<Burgundavia> froud, unknown
<Burgundavia> he might have actually meant it this time
<mpt> "this time"?
<mpt> Is there a mailing list post or something?
<Burgundavia> I think so
<Burgundavia> no idea and I don't really care
<Flonne> mpt, I'm familiar with DocBook if you want me to take a look at whatever.
<mpt> Flonne: That would be great ... Are you familiar with GNOME's use of DocBook?
<Flonne> Yelp?
<mpt> yes
<Flonne> Yeah.
<mpt> Flonne: There are several things I'd like to know how to do
<mpt> they're listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHelp
<mpt> Some of them may not even be possible in yelp, I don't know
<mpt> and I guess the only way to fix some of them will affect every document shown in yelp, not just the one I'm editing
<Madpilot> Yelp won't do local XSL stylesheets or something similar?
<Flonne> I'm fairly sure Yelp can use alternative style definitions (like CSS or XSL), so you'd just need to include another file.
<mpt> I don't know anything about XSL yet, but I'm keen to learn :-)
<Flonne> I think Previous and Next will have to be overridden, since Yelp inserts those automatically.
<Flonne> The frame may have to be toggled by the user.
<Flonne> If we're still using xinclude or something similar (I've been gone for a while), adding your own style shouldn't be too difficult.
<Flonne> Are you working out of SVN? If so, I can play with the styles in about two hours.
<mpt> No, baz
<mpt> See the "How to hack the help" section of that page
<Flonne> Ah. There are instructions below.
<Flonne> Yeah. I just noticed them.
<Flonne> I *have* been gome a long time. :(
<Flonne> gone*
<mpt> What did you used to do?
<Flonne> Not much...
<Flonne> I wrote several chapters for a userguide draft, but they were lost when the repository split, and then I just started looking for documents and Wiki pages in need of editing.
<Flonne> And then I forgot to budget money for an Internet connection over the summer. Being a student sucks.
<mpt> heh
<mpt> I've been there
<Flonne> ...But, yeah. I'll try to get some of those done tonight.
<mpt> Awesome, that would be great
* mpt reads up on other Flonnes
<Flonne> O.o
<Flonne> I stole the name from a game.
<mpt> That's roughly what I thought you'd say
<Flonne> It's probably fairly common.
<mpt> I guessed O_o instead of O.o, but hey
<Flonne> Ah.
<mpt> You'll probably gasp at the horribleness of my markup
<mpt> I'm still learning DocBook
<mpt> but tonight I have learnt <xref>!
<Flonne> It's pretty hard to mess it up. It usually only validates one way.
<Flonne> xref is awesome.
<mpt> Yes, and yelp crashes if you make a mistake
<mpt> though I think that's been fixed since Hoary
<Flonne> I'm sure I'll find some way to crash it under Breezy.
<mpt> uh oh
<mpt> phone's ringing
<Flonne> "Whoo! I've got Internet access again! Hmm... I wonder if the development branch is open yet... It is? Yay!"
<mpt> and I'm in Brazil and don't speak PT
<mpt> brb
<mpt> Enjoying Ubuntu, then? :-)
<mpt> (phew, it was an English speaker)
<Flonne> I've been enjoying it since someone jokingly installed it into swap on my Gentoo box and disguised it in menu.lst. :)
<mpt> Iiiiinteresting
<mpt> My girlfriend uses Gentoo
<mpt> She much prefers purple to brown.
<Flonne> I prefer white to brown. winter-OB3 is great.
<Madpilot> mpt: you could just install Ubuntu, re-skin it purple, and see if she notices? ;)
<mpt> Madpilot: I'd also have to uninstall Metacity, install Ion, set Thunderbird as the mail client, and probably half a dozen other things that I don't even know
<mpt> Flonne: My search - winter-ob3 - did not match any documents. What kind of color scheme is that?
<mpt> hi mgalvin
<mgalvin> hey pt
<rob^> hi
<mgalvin> hey all
<mpt> mgalvin: I don't start learning pt for another week and a half
<mgalvin> oops, s/pt/mpt/
<mgalvin> ;)
<mpt> :-)
<rob^> hey is everyone on breeze yet?
<HrdwrBoB> no
<mpt> I wanted to install it this weekend
<mpt> I picked a bad time
<mgalvin> i am
<rob^> I got it running ok on a spare pc
<mpt> the CD images were unrunnable
<rob^> I just installed hoary and apt-get updated it
<mpt> (produced unrunnable installations, I mean)
<rob^> dist-upgrade-ed it
<mgalvin> 20050812.2 works
<Flonne> It's one of Gentoo's OpenBox GTK2 themes. Want it?
<mgalvin> thats the one i used
<Flonne> I dist-upgraded Breezy, too.
<Flonne> It's... broken.
<Flonne> Usable, but some libraries aren't quite stable.
<Flonne> (amd64 on a laptop)
<rob^> amd64 yeah
<rob^> I'm just using an old 500mhz pc
<mpt> I'll download 20050815 ... I want a clean install so I can see exactly what someone installing it from scratch sees
<rob^> yep
<mpt> Otherwise I'll be writing about things that don't exist, and not about things that do
<mgalvin> there is still the issue where on that cd eth0 doesn't come up right, you have to sudo dhclient eth0 during stage to on con 2 or 3
* rob^ thinks, do I risk my desktop PC to dist-upgrade and show off at lug meeting tonight or not :P
<mgalvin> s/stage/stage 2/
<mpt> Flonne: ob3 screenshots anywhere?
<mgalvin> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-August/009594.html
<rob^> my mouse doesn't work in breezy though (to lazy to configure it), so I have a vnc connection to it
<mpt> Flonne: nm, I found one
<mpt> Someday someone will make a pretty GTK theme
<Flonne> http://hamsterx.homelinux.org/~rhx/Algol-14-8-05.png If you want to see another one for some reason.
<mpt> thanks
<Liz> wow..we have gotten bigger in here havent we
<mpt> hi Liz
<mpt> Still mostly lurkers, I think :-)
* robitaille waves
* Madpilot lurks
* mpt crashes yelp
<mpt> ugh, laptops and sleeping bags are not a good mixture heat-wise
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: ping?
<mpt> hi Jerome
<jsgotangco> mpt: hey
<mpt> Flonne: It's nearly 1am, I'm going to sleep ... Let me know how you get on, and thanks
<Flonne> I gashed my palm on a cupboard, so I'm just starting now. :(
<mpt> ow
<Flonne> I'll let you know.
<mpt> don't reopen any wounds for my sake :-x
<Flonne> I type DVORAK-Left. I gashed my right palm. I'll be fine. :)
<jsgotangco> mpt, ping?
<rob^> is the daily build working?
<rob^> doh!
<jjesse> morning, finally had a chance to write more this weekend ;)
<mgalvin> enrico: ping
* rob^ looks
<mgalvin> hey rob^
<rob^> hey Madpilot 
<rob^> grr
<rob^> hey mgalvin 
<enrico> mgalvin: hi
<mgalvin> hi enrico
<mgalvin> enrico: did you happen to see the changes I made to the ubuntu-doc deb pakcage?
<mgalvin> i wondered if you would mind taking a peek since you are the maintainer, i updated it to work with our current plans and wanted to see if you had any suggestions or concerns
<enrico> mgalvin: I'll have a look
<enrico> mgalvin: I haven't been tracking it
<mgalvin> great thanks
<mgalvin> ok, well i just wanted you to know i modified it, i don't mean to step on toes or anything, i just wanted to get a working package since we are going to be shipping html
<enrico> mgalvin: no problem with stepping on toes: I can't really claim ownership on that, as I've been inactive for quite some time.  I'm basically maintaining while noone else is
<mgalvin> enrico: ok cool, i should be able to keep it updated and working, i just don't have upload privs yet... would you still be able to upload it when the time comes?
<enrico> mgalvin: sure
<mgalvin> enrico: cool, thanks again
<mgalvin> enrico: would you mind then if I became the maintainer and add you as comaintainer?
<enrico> mgalvin: not at all.  As soon as you can upload
<mgalvin> enrico: ok sounds good to me
<hno73> Hello
<hno73> About the new server: nI understand there was a conflict with svn in trying to point docteam.u.c to it
<hno73> (which makes sense now that I think about it)
<hno73> Any objections to just calling the WIP server doc.ubuntu.com?
<rob^> no
<rob^> what was the conflict?
<hno73> On the front page we could link off to mature docs and WIP in separate sections
<rob^> yeah I don't mind
<hno73> rob^: the svn repository is currently on the maitri server and docteam.u.c points to that
<hno73> which we in turn read from to generate pages on the new server
<hno73> so if we change that address then we'd have to move the svn repo too
<hno73> (which we culd do, but it's a hassle we might not need right now)
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> well it could just be doc.u.c then
<rob^> or docs
<hno73> yep, and then we could move the repo to bzr on doc.u.c in due course :)
<rob^> I take it there are tools for doing that?
<hno73> Yes, they're in the works
<rob^> so we don't lose revision history etc
<rob^> cool
<hno73> See: http://www.bazaar-ng.org/ for what bzr is
<hno73> baz and bzr will merge soonish 
<rob^> arch is written in python?
<hno73> no, just bazaar-ng
<rob^> how are they going to merge the two?
<hno73> that's mainly to speed up development
<rob^> well, the fork of arch then
<hno73> bazaar (baz), no think that'sjust built on the arch code
<rob^> ah
<rob^> but it will end up all being in python
<hno73> They will take the cool new features of bzr and possibly reimpliment in a faster language (C)
<hno73> don't know
<rob^> just reading the faq on that site
<hno73> anyway, it will be smooth when it happens
<mgalvin> hi hno73
<mgalvin> no objections here about doc.u.c
<hno73> mgalvin: ok, thanks. I'm emailing the list too, just to make sure
<mgalvin> i think i like docs.u.c, sounds better to me
<mgalvin> k cool
<mpt> bzr is going to continue in python
<mpt> it's quite fast enough
<hno73> ok, I'm happy with either. We can vote on the list :)
<hno73> mpt: ok, thanks. You've got more up-to-date info than me :)
<mpt> There will be a pie in someon's face at UBZ related to bzr
<mpt> someone's
<hno73> python is cool (says the ex-FORTAN-hack)
<hno73> care to elaborate?
<mpt> um, how does it go
<mpt> Robert Collins will get a pie in the face if we Launchpadders aren't doing all our work in bzr before UBZ
<mpt> and kiko (iirc) will get a pie in the face if we *are*
<hno73> cool :)
<robitaille> UBZ?
<hno73> mpt: shouldn't it be the other way 'round though?
<robitaille> (was that the same pie promised on ubuntu-devl ML the other day?
<robitaille> :)
<mpt> oh, no, that pie has already been delivered
* mpt should post the photo
<enrico> mgalvin: is debian/copyright still valid?  It mentions 'Ubuntu Handbook' in gnome/debian
<mpt> that was because kiko failed to implement the Untriaged bugs page, something else entirely
<robitaille> too many pies...it's getting confusing
<enrico> wow.  nice framework, lots of translations, even some translated screenshots!
<hno73> as long as they are cream pies and not steak and kidney pies
<mgalvin> enrico: i had left that in there since it is history and didn't want to take it out, but it can be removed, its not necessary to have it there
<mpt> hno73: Well, Robert C. is lactose-intolerant, so it would need to be dairy-free
<enrico> mgalvin: fakeroot debian/rules binary in gnome/ gives an empty .deb
<enrico> mgalvin: make gdeb is not invoked
<enrico> mgalvin: I'll try to fix it
<mgalvin> hmm, it worked for me the other day, looking now too...
<enrico> mgalvin: ok, fix on its way
<enrico> mgalvin: committed.
<mgalvin> enrico: got it, thanx
<enrico> mgalvin: I have XML errors on c/kuserguide.xml
<enrico> I'll commit the debian/rules updates for kde and you'll maybe look into it
<mgalvin> enrico: wierd though, it works here without the build target
<mgalvin> ok
<enrico> mgalvin: committed
<enrico> Lots of errors 'No localization exists for "c" or "".  Using default "en".
<enrico> (in gnome/)
<enrico> is froud still around?
<enrico> last commit on the 10th, sounds like yes
<mgalvin> yea, those happen everywhere, and always have since i started here
<enrico> maybe he's on vacation
<mgalvin> yes
<mgalvin> he is
<mgalvin> hes around, been busy i think
<enrico> gnome/ builds fine here
<enrico> the Co-maintainer field is wrong.  Let me fix it
<enrico> it's "Uploaders"
<enrico> gnome/ builds the deb fine now; let's see kde
<mgalvin> oops, i know, i accidentilly typed the wrong thing there, sorry about that
<enrico> someone committed some mismatched tags in the kuserguide
<enrico> fixing...
<enrico> kde .deb is empty
<enrico> let me see...
<mgalvin> i copied the ubuntu-docs rules from kubuntu-docs, probably needs the same fix
<enrico> mgalvin: no, it was missing ../ before build.  Fixed
<enrico> it's 9 megs now :)
<enrico> wow
<enrico> the gnome one is 573Kb
<enrico> something is wrong
<mgalvin> kubuntu-docs does have more docs in it than ubuntu-docs
<enrico> you might want to fix the debian/changelog for kde
<enrico> mgalvin: ah, ok
<enrico> I'll commit the changes so far.  Looks good to me
<mgalvin> ok, i will talk to froud about that too
<mgalvin> k, cool
<enrico> mgalvin: there you go.  Try building the packages and see if there's everything.  Then, when you need it, I can make an upload
<mgalvin> building them both now
<mgalvin> kde failed... checkign
<mgalvin> fixed
<mgalvin> comitted
<mgalvin> enrico: they both build fine now, thanx
<enrico> mgalvin: anytime!  Does the .debs contain everything they should and install it in the right place?
<mgalvin> enrico: the final decisions have not been made yet as to what we are going to ship (depends on what gets done in time ;)), the current install locations should be correct
<rob^> hey mgalvin, I will be away for about 10 days starting in a few days time
<rob^> so don't get too worried when I seem to vanish from the face of the earth for a while
<mgalvin> rob^: ok, thanks for letting me know
<mgalvin> :)
<rob^> np, bloody work..
<mgalvin> work trip, that sux
<enrico> mgalvin: [tip]  to check the contents of a .deb, you can use Midnight Commander as it's able to navigate inside
<rob^> heh, yes, considering who I work for
<mgalvin> enrico: i did not know that, neat
<rob^> I think there is a gui app that can do the same also
* rob^ forgets the name
* rob^ laughs at his 500mhz testbed pc running nv x.org drivers trying to render a GL screensaver
<mgalvin> hehe
<rob^> whist installing packages with apt-get
<mgalvin> it's funny watching it struggle
<rob^> yeah, its probably doing about a frame a second
<rob^> the hd is going nuts
<rob^> its only got 64mb ram in it, running breezy
<mgalvin> lol
<mgalvin> gesh
<rob^> its installing OOo2, should be intresting to run
<rob^> eh poor thing. I'm going to be
<rob^> d
<rob^> night all
<mgalvin> night
<ploum> Hello
<ploum> To take screenshot of the breezy installation, I'm looking for a virtualizer software
<ploum> free
<ploum> Is there anything easily installable in Hoary ?
<ploum> (a 30 days trial of vmware or anything like that would be enough)
<ploum>  To take screenshot of the breezy installation, I'm looking for a free (a in beer) virtualizer software
<mgalvin> ploum: you can use the vmware trial, they will send you a temp serial #, it does work in hoary
<venda> enrico: ping
<mgalvin> venda: hey, i am replying to your email now
<venda> waz up
<enrico> venda: hey!
<venda> crontabs my side just stopped
* enrico hugs venda
<venda> enrico: make kubuntu is now broke
<venda> :-(
<enrico> venda: is that my fault?
<venda> can make debs
<enrico> used to work here
<venda> see ./prepdeb.sh
<enrico> I didn't touch the makefile! I swear!
* enrico hides behind the sofa
<venda> with pwd kde/
<venda> do ./prepdeb.sh
<venda> enrico: mgalvin; kde/debian was changed
<enrico> venda: so, I see now that hte packagew isn't built using the stuff in svn
<enrico> weird
<enrico> any reason for it?  Usually one does a svn export and builds on it
<enrico> I see you also do some rm -rf
<enrico> fine
<venda> ./prepdeb.sh does exports
<venda> and prunes folders not required
<enrico> wouldn't that be enough?  svn export . /tmp/kubuntu-docs-version; cd /tmp/kubuntu-docs-version; rm -rf (what you need); dpkg-buildpackage 
<venda> so making deb size smaller
<mgalvin> venda: i just told make not to -C kde/, which didn't work outside of prepdeb.sh
<venda> mgalvin: prepdeb is there to make life easier
<enrico> venda: goal would be to have predeb get smaller and smaller
<highvoltage> venda: hi there
<mgalvin> venda: sure, i just didn't know that when we modified it :-/
<mgalvin> i didn't notice that prepdeb was there
<venda> humm, all I do is have cron run a job executing the script passing it the 5.10
<venda> I used it for lnix.net/~froud
<mgalvin> ok, cool... well i have no objections to rolling back the kde changes since you rely on it being the way it was
<venda> see http://lnix.net/~froud//deb/kubuntu-docs_5.10-0.4_all.deb
<venda> what was the problem that prompted your change
<venda> is there someting you need
<mgalvin> i only wanted to make ubuntu-docs work anyway
<mgalvin> i don't need kubuntu-docs to be changed at all
<venda> ok
<venda> so next time, just do ./prebdeb.sh 5.10
<mgalvin> enrico: what was the initial reason for mod'ing kubuntu-docs package?
<mgalvin> ok
<venda> that will do everything for you the result is deb and srcs
* mgalvin check commit logs
<venda> do you know how to role back :-) or shall I
<mgalvin> i think when DEB_MAKE_BUILD_TARGET=kdeb was added it broken the other stages
<mgalvin> which ever, go ahead an do it so you know you have the proper things there that you need
<mgalvin> sorry for the breakage
* mgalvin hides under my desk ;)
<venda> np
<venda> later
<mgalvin> later
<ploum> ths mgalvin 
<ploum> thanks ;-)
<mgalvin> ploum: np
<enrico> dah.  I was at the phone
<enrico> mgalvin: please feel free to revert my changes
<enrico> however, common practice is that when you see a debian/ directory, you can do dpkg-buildpackage
<enrico> venda: oh, there you are back.
<enrico> replay:
<enrico> dah.  I was at the phone
<enrico> please feel free to revert my changes
<enrico> however, common practice is that when you see a debian/ directory, you can do dpkg-buildpackage
<enrico> I'd suggest to have as a (long term?) target the idea of not needing the predeb.sh script anymore
<enrico> as you've seen today, an experienced developer approaching this structure for the first time is going to make messes
<venda> hmmm
<enrico> about the DEB_MAKE_BUILD_TARGET, I can't undertsand how that could break things: it was just a better CDBS way of saying that build is "make something" instad of just "make"
<venda> trick is to move away all the unwanted stuff for th epackage
<venda> the difference in size is huge
<venda> hence this method
<enrico> plus the messup because there are common things in debian/../.., while there should only be a debian/..
<enrico> I understand
* enrico thinks better ways...
<enrico> why having two debian/ directories, BTW?
<venda> yeah we have a debian for gnome and a debian for kde
<enrico> There could be only a debian/, toplevel, building both KDE and GNOME stuff
<enrico> that way you don't need reshuffling common and libs at least
<venda> enrico: could be
<venda> Hmmm
<venda> see upstream drops
<enrico> upstream drops?
<venda> large things
<enrico> I don't understand
<enrico> What I mean is that it'd be much better to just do svn export and a bunch of rm -r than also having to reshuffle directories
<enrico> the difference being that the build system you see on the svn checkout references actually existing directories
<enrico> so when I look at the dh_install lines, they match what is around
* enrico needs to go to dinner
<enrico> I'll be back in 20'
<venda> enrico: mgalvin: for now I have done a role back svn merge -r HEAD:1565 debian debian
<mgalvin> ok
<venda> enrico: run ./prepdeb.sh see how it builds, if we can improve and keep the build working it would be good
<venda> enrico: what's most important is that we won't package src that is not used
<venda> at present I still have th eproblem of packing the upstream dro[
<venda> s/dro[/drop
<venda> but that could be src used to build html in future
<venda> k later
<mdke> evening
<mgalvin> hey mdke
<mdke> heya
<mdke> i have an idea to pass by you
<mdke> mgalvin, i know nothing about packaging, which is why I ask. Is it going to be an easy thing to sort out packages for other languages do you think? Like ubuntu-doc-fr or whatever
<mdke> if so, we might be able to sort it so that the language selector installs the right package automatically, like with the language packs (if there is enough space on the install cd)
<mgalvin> mdke: i have not actually created lang specific packages so i have to learn how, but... i don't think its difficult though and it would be nice to be able to do that
<mgalvin> i am pretty sure its just a matter of creating the packages in debian/control, build all the docs for all langs and in debian/rules just stick them in the proper package (for the most part)
<mdke> ok cool
<mdke> the hardest thing might be to get them on the cd
<mdke> we'll have to speak to the tech board for advice i guess
<mdke> how big are the packages?
<mgalvin> yea, the good thing right now is that ubuntu-docs is really small
<mgalvin> ~590k
<mdke> just html right?
<mgalvin> yup
<mdke> cool
<mdke> ok we can speak to some devs nearer the time then
<mdke> great
<mgalvin> yup, sounds good
<mpt> wow, Evolution's help is actually pretty reasonable
<ranto> I have a rather off topic question. Does anyone know how to charge a documentation project? what's the typical man-hour price?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-08-21
<mpt> How to charge a documentation project? With a battering ram, and a large quantity of superb writing ready to use.
<ranto> my english is not very good, what i mean is how to price it
<ranto> i have to write a java tutorial with full copyright
<ranto> and i don't know how much is the standard man/hour price
<HrdwrBoB> ranto: in au we quoted $90/hr for coding
<HrdwrBoB> settled at $75/hr
<mpt> sorry for the joke
<ranto> wow thats a lot :D
<ranto> its ok, no problem!
<HrdwrBoB> ranto: yeah it depends on the job
<ranto> it's a java tutorial for japan
<HrdwrBoB> but if you're experienced and delivering a finished product on a short contract basis
<HrdwrBoB> you have to make your money somehow
<ranto> i've 20 days to finish the job
<ranto> HrdwrBoB: us dolars?
<Madpilot> Australian dollars, I'm assuming - I think HrdwrBoB is in .au
<jsgotangco> jdub, ping?
<jdub> pong
<jsgotangco> jdub, who built/updated the install guide in the breezy iso?
<jdub> no idea
<jsgotangco> hmm ask the list i guess?
<jsgotangco> its the debian installer doc with an ubuntu flavour
<mgalvin> jdub: Kamion i think
<jdub> jsgotangco: it's probably colin
<jsgotangco> most probably
<jsgotangco> ill ask colin later
<mpt> Morning all
<mgalvin> morning mpt
<jsgotangco> mpt, looked at your UbuntuHelp on baz
<jsgotangco> what needs to be done there?
<mpt> hi jsgotangco, pong :-)
<mpt> thanks for looking at it
<mpt> How recently did you merge? I mirrored quite a lot of changes about 14 hours ago
<jsgotangco> i haven't merged yet
<jsgotangco> im just followed your steps in the wiki
<mpt> ah, ok
<jsgotangco> since i don't know yet what needs to be done, most of the issues you raised are yelp stylesheets
<mpt> So, baz merge mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0 should get you my latest changes
<mpt> Yes, stylesheet niceties
<mpt> So, what else is missing
<mpt> The Breezy-specific stuff, basically
<mpt> Since I only had the time+machine to consider installing Breezy as of Friday
<mpt> and afaict the installer CDs have been pretty dodgy since then
<jsgotangco> yes
<mpt> So, stuff about setting up a firewall
<mpt> and connecting to a wireless network
<mpt> Actually, connecting to the Internet in general
<mpt> I could find practically no information about that at all
<jsgotangco> so we're aiming for a Yelp-aware doc?
<mpt> except for the WiFiHowTo or whatever it's called on the wiki
<mpt> I'm not sure what you mean by yelp-aware
<jsgotangco> if it opens up in Yelp
<jsgotangco> because Yelp is pretty dumb in other docbook tags
<jsgotangco> sime
<jsgotangco> some
<mpt> yeah, I noticed
<mpt> The to-do list on the wiki page are my biggest gripes
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> is ubuntu-help my branch then?
<mpt> Type "baz tree-version" (without quotes)
<mpt> that'll tell you what your branch is
<jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz tree-version
<jsgotangco> jgotangco@gmail.com/help--0
<mpt> ok
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> where is this?
<mpt> Where on disk?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> ubuntu-help?
<mpt> If you followed the instructions on the wiki it's in an ubuntu-help directory, yes
<jsgotangco> ok what's the purpose of the archives folder then?
<mpt> The archives folder records the various archives you have
<mpt> For example in my ~/archives I have records for mpt@canonical.com (my Launchpad work) and mpt@myrealbox.com (my Ubuntu Help work)
<jsgotangco> ok so actual editing is done on ubuntu-help right?
<jsgotangco> i see
<mpt> Yes, you just edit the files inside ubuntu-help
<mpt> You can use "baz diff" to see what you've done
<Flonne> Unpaid overtime == bad.
<mpt> ("baz diff | less" if you've done a lot)
<Flonne> I'll get back to work now.
<mpt> heya Flonne
<Flonne> Hi.
<jsgotangco> heh
<mpt> What kind of job?
<Flonne> Techwriting, system document evaluation, and Python prototyping.
<mpt> Someday I'll be good enough to be a professional tech writer
<jsgotangco> mpt, so if i do some changes, i request you to merge to my archive?
* mpt realizes he was actually a professional tech writer once, earning NZ$15/hour
<mpt> jsgotangco: Correct
* Flonne isn't making too much... but all work is done with FreeBSD, so it's fine.
<mpt> you commit them (baz commit -s "summary") and mirror them (baz archive-mirror), and then I can merge from them
<mpt> And the same for my changes, you merge from those
<mpt> Providing you agree with them, of course :-)
<mpt> Flonne: How's the hand?
<Flonne> It's better. I also got a chance to play with Yelp and XSL at work, so hopefully I'll find the problem soon.
<Flonne> Thanks for asking.
<jsgotangco> mpt, i like the structure
<mpt> as in the sections and subsections?
<jsgotangco> yes
<mpt> Modelled loosely on the Gnome User Guide
<jsgotangco> i noticed..the it still needs a lot of work though
<mpt> yes
<jsgotangco> i dont think this can be done by documentation freeze
<jsgotangco> but its a nice start
<mpt> Well, I guess that depends partly on the number of contributors :-)
<jsgotangco> :)
<jsgotangco> i'd like to work on it and learn baz more on the process
<Flonne> It could be done if existing sources are mined for information and a few editors refine the content...
<jsgotangco> Flonne, yeah we can pull info from the gnome user guide
<jsgotangco> some from the faq guide being worked on and just detail it further
<mpt> For me, where I've been writing topics the same as covered in the GUG, I'm pretty sure it's been faster for me to write from scratch
<mpt> but I guess it might be different for other people
<jsgotangco> i'll see what i can hack up later and request for a merge when i see you
<mpt> excellent, thanks
<jsgotangco> mpt, ok say we have 10 contributors, who manages the merge? only 1 person?
<mpt> jsgotangco: How long ago did you grab the archive?
<jsgotangco> mpt, last night, updated today
<mpt> ok
<Flonne> baz up ~= svn up?
<mpt> No, there's no mainline for "up" to work from
<jsgotangco> everyone has a copy
<jsgotangco> there is no server copy
<mpt> right
<Flonne> Ah.
<Flonne> I'll need to read about this system tomorrow.
<jsgotangco> so it can be a bit confusing at the start
<mpt> What usually happens, as far as I know, is that two or three people end up being the hub of the wheel
<jsgotangco> the rest would request then
<mpt> They pull in contributions from others
<mpt> and constantly merge between themselves
<jsgotangco> how is conflict resolved?
<mpt> It helps if they're in different timezones :-)
<jsgotangco> via the merge?
<mpt> Yes
<mpt> When you do a merge, it'll tell you if there were conflicts
<mpt> the conflicted files will be prefixed with "C" in the listing instead of "M"
<mpt> When you open them, you can see conflict markers which look roughly like this
<mpt> <<<<<< TREE
<mpt> your stuff here
<mpt> ======
<mpt> the stuff you merged from here
<mpt> >>>>>> MERGE-SOURCE
<mpt> So for each of those sections, you can decide which bits should be retained
<mpt> edit the files as appropriate
<mpt> and once you've done that for all the conflicts, "baz resolved --all"
<jsgotangco> hmm ok if you're merging my changes you'd do baz merge jgotangco@gmail.com/help--0 as well?
<mpt> exactly
<jsgotangco> i dont have a supermirror
<mpt> You don't have an account on the supermirror?
<Flonne> Hmm... 123 updates for Breezy today. Maybe I should revert.
<mpt> jsgotangco: So is your archive public at all
<jsgotangco> it won't let me do it if i follow your wiki
<mpt> ?
<mpt> really?
<Flonne> amd64
<jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz make-archive -m jgotangco@gmail.com sftp://jgotangco@gmail.com@mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/jgotangco@gmail.com
<jsgotangco> Permission denied (publickey).
<jsgotangco> Error reading from server
<jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$
<mpt> hmmmm
<mpt> What's your Launchpad account name?
<mpt> Flonne: That might be a good thing :-)
<jsgotangco> jgotangco@gmail.com
<Flonne> The first sixty were Xorg input updates. That's a lot, considering xserver-xorg isn't one of the packages to be upgraded.
<mpt> jsgotangco: Oh, you need your SSH key registered with Launchpad
<jsgotangco> i see
<jsgotangco> ahh
<mpt> I think that's the problem
<jsgotangco> i haven't done that
<mpt> I'll put that on the wiki page
<mpt> sorry, I went over those instructions with the lead baz hacker, but we both missed that step :-)
<jsgotangco> You need to register an SSH key with Launchpad to be able to publish your Bazaar code branches in the Bazaar supermirror.
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> so that's why
<mpt> Flonne: So now would be a bad time to install Breezy from scratch?
<mpt> jsgotangco: wiki page fixed.
<jsgotangco> alright ill try it out again now
<Flonne> It's still holding back three packages... including Python.
<jsgotangco> ill just make a small edit and commit
<Flonne> I'm not sure about i386, but I'm going to replace my 64-bit Gentoo partition with Hoary so I can work.
<mpt> jsgotangco: Committing you can do anyway, it's the archive-mirror that's the test :-)
<jsgotangco> mpt, archive-mirror goes into my supermirror right?
<mpt> goes to your account on the Supermirror, yes
<jsgotangco> wooo Seg fault
<mpt> erk
<jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz archive-mirror
<jsgotangco> Enter passphrase for key '/home/jsg/.ssh/id_rsa':
<jsgotangco> Segmentation fault
<jsgotangco> so that's the test :)
<mpt> oh man
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, pong
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, where have you been? roaming in the real world lately? :)
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, at my gf's place
<Burgundavia> which means my machine stays on
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, my laptop is being held captive by customs
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, if they are asking for money, canonical should cover it. But you need to pay up front
<jsgotangco> no worries though, claire to the rescue
<jsgotangco> mpt, if i always get a segfault, i wont be able to mirror and you can't merge :)
<mpt> jsgotangco: I realize that
<mpt> I ... don't know why that could be happening
<mpt> jsgotangco: Try using the ssh-add command
<mpt> and then baz archive-mirror
<mpt> That'll tell us what's segfaulting, ssh or baz
<jsgotangco> i still segfault on baz
<mpt> oh, sucks
<jsgotangco> the authentication agent works
<mpt> It seems pretty much all the Bazaar hackers are asleep/busy
<mpt> Try asking in #bazaar in a few hours
<mpt> Sorry I can't help you further
<mpt> No response in there at the moment.
<jsgotangco> its ok i'll just grab a bite first
<mpt> There's always e-mail :-)
<mpt> By default, "baz diff" gives you the diff since your last commit
<jsgotangco> yes i did that
<jsgotangco> its really nice
<mpt> but "baz diff mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0" will give you the diff between yours and mine, regardless of whether you've committed or mirrored or whatever
<jsgotangco> ahh
<mpt> Also good for examining someone's changes to see if you want to merge them
<jsgotangco> i see your 14 patches
<mpt> It takes quite a bit longer than a normal diff, because it's comparing across the network
<mpt> jsgotangco: Do you know how to use gdb?
* mpt wonders if Flonne will have the same problem
<Flonne> What problem?
<Flonne> Yelp is still not accepting XSL, but I'll continue reading while downloading Hoary.
<mpt> The baz problem
<mpt> Though from "downloading Hoary" I guess you have slightly bigger issues to deal with :-)
<Flonne> Well, I could install it from Knoppix, but I really want to get something done. :)
<jeffsch> mpt: I get Permission denied (publickey) when trying to create supermirror
<jeffsch> is that an ssh problem?
<mpt> jeffsch: I've just updated the instructions to mention that you need to register your SSH key with Launchpad
<mpt> jsgotangco had the same problem
<mpt> soryr
<mpt> sorry, even
<jeffsch> hmmm... i see that, but there is no "SSH Keys" on the right of my launchpad page
<mpt> yes there is, I can see it from here
<mpt> https://launchpad.net/people/jeffsch
<mpt> between "Bugs Reported" and "GPG Keys"
<jeffsch> ahhh. silly me... i was looking at the launchpad homepage, and not MY launchpad page :)
<mpt> ok, good point
<jeffsch> might also be useful to mention that "baz make-archive -m your@e-mail.address etc etc" is all one line, and not two lines
<mpt> done.
<mpt> ok, 2am, I'd better sleep or I'll be late for work yet again
<Flonne> I don't seem to have encountered any problems while setting up a baz account.
<jsgotangco> creating a supermirror relies on an ssh key
<mpt> Flonne: I meant when doing archive-mirror
<jeffsch> ok, i have to generate an ssh key: which is better - rsa or dsa?
<Flonne> I'd need something to commit. I'll do that at work. You need sleep.
<jdub> jeffsch: dsa
* mpt commits himself to unconsciousness
<mpt> 'night, people
<highvoltage> night mpt
<Flonne> G'night.
<jeffsch> night
<jsgotangco> night
<jsgotangco> mpt, thanks
<mpt> jsgotangco: So if you want to, you can e-mail a diff
<jsgotangco> ok
<mpt> if you get no luck in #bazaar
<jeffsch> jdub: how long for the ssh public key to work its way through the launchpad system?
<jeffsch> i still get Permission denied (publickey).
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> it just worked for me instantly
<jsgotangco> after uploading my ssh key
<jeffsch> doh! my bad. hold on a sec...
<jeffsch> ok. it worked. I only changed two of the three "your@e-mail.address". tsk tsk
<jsgotangco> heh
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: what up with styleguide? a while ago you said something about making pdf available
<jeffsch> i want to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide with appropriate info
<jsgotangco> ouch
<jsgotangco> i havent fop'ed it yet!
<jsgotangco> sorry
<jeffsch> np
<jeffsch> i can prolly get around to it myself.
<jsgotangco> and i don't have anywhere to put the PDF either
<jeffsch> only thing is, where to put it?
<jeffsch> oh
<jsgotangco> should have been on the linode but only mdke has access to it at the moment for all i know
<jeffsch> ok. so next time you see mdke, ask him about it - i will ask too
<jsgotangco> ok
<jdub> jeffsch: shuoldn't take long at all
<jeffsch> yeah... turned out to be my fault
* Burgundavia has finally cleared his mail backlog
<Madpilot> how long did that take?
<Burgundavia> a couple of hours
<Madpilot> not too bad, then
<Burgundavia> only 319
<Madpilot> must have been lots of glance-and-delete to get thru 319 in only a couple hours
<Burgundavia> most are bug email
<Madpilot> are you on #ubuntu now? following Determinist's "what Linux should do" rant? 
<Burgundavia> yes, but not actively following it
<Madpilot> can you send me a gmail invite? they still don't seem to be accepting regular signups
<jsgotangco> i can send you one
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: that was actually meant for Burgundavia, but whatever! yh728@victoria.tc.ca  - you two can race to see which gets to me first... ;)
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, done
<jsgotangco> there
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: thanks
<Burgundavia> bloody hell. Meeting in 6 hours
<Madpilot> that's early...
<jsgotangco> what meeting?
<Burgundavia> 14:00 UTC
<Burgundavia> oh wait, 1 day and 6 hours
<Madpilot> bit of a difference. still too early in the morning
<Burgundavia> need to be up early that morning anyway
<mdke> jsgotangco, yo
<jsgotangco> hi
<mdke> aha
<mdke> hello
<mdke> saw a highlight from you about the linode?
<jsgotangco> been busy?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> looking for a place to live
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<mdke> wassup?
<jsgotangco> well me an jeffsch are stumped on where to put our PDF on styleguide
<mdke> ok
<mdke> what are the options?
<mdke> build/gnome?
<jsgotangco> make pdf on styleguide
<jsgotangco> but it needs apache fop
<mdke> what is that?
<mdke> it needs it to build?
<jsgotangco> http://xml.apache.org/fop/
<jsgotangco> just the pdf
<jsgotangco> the make html works
<mdke> ok is this apache fop in Ubuntu?
<jsgotangco> nope
<mdke> damn
<mdke> so what do we do?
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i can make a PDF on oxygen
<jsgotangco> and just upload it
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> it would be better to have it automated on the server tho no?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> but jeff's script needs fop
<mdke> if we can get it building and into the "make all" then it will get copied with the rest
<mdke> jsgotangco, we can install fop on the server?
<jsgotangco> you have root
<mdke> yes, and henrik
<jsgotangco> we'd like to release StyleGuide 
<mdke> i'll install it then
<jsgotangco> ok
<mdke> will you put the make target into "all"?
<jsgotangco> all our docs?
<mdke> jsgotangco, there is currently a make all in the /gnome/ folder
<mdke> if you can add the styleguide, it will get built automatically with the others
<mdke> actually it doesn't make sense to put it under gnome/
<jsgotangco> i can try im not too familiar with the other scripts, only jeff's
<mdke> i can do a separate cronjob if you like
<mdke> but it would be best to have one make target that builds both html and pdf, what do you think?
<jsgotangco> sure that's the best route actually i will just compare the scripts that we have
<mdke> ok
<mdke> leave the existing ones, and make one that calls both?
<jsgotangco> well that should be our end goal
<jsgotangco> is that linode in hoary?
<mdke> it runs hoary
* mdke looks for instructions on how to install fop
<jsgotangco> ackkk styelsheet borkage
<mdke> where should I install fop?
<mdke> looks like I just have to untar the binary somewhere convenient, if you tell me the right address for your scripts, I'll do it there
<jsgotangco> im trying to remember where i put it then
<mdke> ok cool
<mdke> i've changed my mind
<mdke> i'm gonna install from source, that way all the paths should be right
<jsgotangco> wha?
<mdke> the make pdf script seems to need fop.sh, so building from source should ensure that that script is installed in the right place
<mdke> or no?
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> actually... building it requires java
* mdke goes back to the binary
<mdke> jsgotangco, lemme know where you have it installed and I'll install it now
<mdke> also, do a "locate fop.sh"
<mdke> looks like I need java anyway
<mdke> jeez is there no other way to build pdf?
<Burgundavia> xml2pdf?
<mdke> i dunno anything about it
<Burgundavia> part of the xml2 package
<mdke> that does sound a bit more convenient
<mdke> jsgotangco?
<Burgundavia> just call it as part of a script
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco has used it for edubuntu stuff I think
<jsgotangco> sorry i was downstairs
<jsgotangco> no i used a Java ide for that
<mdke> if we can do xml->pdf without installing java and a non-packaged library, that would be a bit more convenient no?
<jsgotangco> it should be
<jsgotangco> i'm trying to install the binary on this machine and it just fails
<mdke> ok can you let me know via email? maybe Sean will be able to help
<jsgotangco> ok i'll just email later
<mdke> i'll set up the server this evening if so
<mdke> i'll get it building html already
<mdke> (also if you do a make all target, that would rock)
<mdke> argh
<mdke> what does he use for building the html?
<mdke> make: xmllint: Command not found
* mdke grumbles
<jsgotangco> on what?
<jsgotangco> styleguide?
<jsgotangco> make html works for me
<mdke> yeah
<jsgotangco> without any other app
<mdke> seems not to use the same tool as the other docs
<mdke> it uses something the linode doesn't have installed yet
<jsgotangco> its basic docbook stylesheets
<jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-doc/styleguide$ make html
<jsgotangco> xmllint --dtdvalid /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid styleguide.xml
<jsgotangco> xsltproc -o ../build/styleguide/styleguide.html /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/docbook.xsl styleguide.xml
<mdke> dude
<mdke> the other docs build, this doesn't. So it _must_ be using a different tool to them
<mdke> because the linode doesn't have the xmllint progra installed
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mdke> i'll try and install it if you like, but it would seem sensible to build all the docs the same way
<jsgotangco> what is the syntax of the other docs?
<mdke> not sure
<mdke> you have to look at the makefiles
<mdke> in gnome/ and kde/
<Burgundavia> night all
<jsgotangco> hmm ok
<mdke> jsgotangco, anyway for now I've installed xmllint and it works
<jsgotangco> let me check this, i see some stuff on themake file
<mdke> ok I've set up a cronjob to build the styleguide and serve it
<mdke> for now it is just doing "make html", when you set up a "make all" i'll change it
<mdke> http://65.19.178.132/styleguide/
<jsgotangco> ok i'll test it first
<mdke> cool, let me know via email
<mdke> looks great btw
<jsgotangco> hmm there's make sg
<jsgotangco> but no pdf
<jsgotangco> its all html make
<mdke> ?
<mdke> there is a make pdf in the styleguide folder
<mdke> if you get jeffsch on it, he'll sort it out I'm sure
<jsgotangco> no in the big makefile in gnome
<mdke> ah
<jsgotangco> he probably mixed up on the 2 scripts
<mdke> if I were you I'd remove references to the styleguide in gnome/ because it is separate really
<jsgotangco> and forgot about the big script
<mdke> that is probably deprecated
<mdke> best thing is to have a "make all" target in the styleguide/ makefile
<jsgotangco> make html on styleguide goes into build as well?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> OUTFILE = ../build/styleguide/styleguide
<mdke> it goes into build/styleguide
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> so that works
<jsgotangco> hrmm
<mdke> yep
<jsgotangco> wonder what is wrong with the other make i did
<mdke> we can just email jeffsch
<mdke> maybe ask if he can build the pdf without using fop, via some other tool that doesn't require installing java
<jsgotangco> it built nicely on my ide though :)
<mdke> and then if he can do a make all target
<mdke> sure
<mdke> if there is no other way to build pdf, then we will have to install java and fop on the server
<mdke> i'm sure Sean will know the best way
<jsgotangco> heh
<mdke> maybe investigate this xml2pdf thing
<jsgotangco> ok i'm going out for a walk first
<mdke> cool
<mdke> see ya later
<jsgotangco> i've been in this room for hours
<jsgotangco> nothing else to do
<mdke> heh
<mdke> see you on email
<mdke> need to go and look at some more houses
<mgalvin> morning all
<rob^> morning
<rob^> doesnt look like there is going to be enough people to approve membership to CC at this meeting
<rob^> dam it
<mgalvin> for who
<rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<rob^> I think they need 3 acutal members or something
<mgalvin> did they already speak to you?
<rob^> I spoke to them
<mgalvin> hm, this meeting was to early in the am for me to get to all of it, did anyone give you +1
<mgalvin> who was around
<rob^> I asked, the said "go for it"
<rob^> its still going now
<mgalvin> i am there to +1 for you
<mgalvin> they are doing members now
<rob^> thanks
<rob^> yep
<jsgotangco> members?
<mgalvin> think they just called on u
<mgalvin> CC meeting
<jsgotangco> oh there's a CC now?
<rob^> JonathanJesse
<rob^> yep
<mgalvin> yup
<jsgotangco> i forgot its tuesday
<mgalvin> i missed the first half, to early for me
<mpt> hi jsgotangco, any luck with baz?
<jsgotangco> i still segfault
<jsgotangco> i didnt see the baz people online either
<mpt> jsgotangco: Did you get a backtrace?
<jsgotangco> err why should i do that?
<mpt> to debug the crash with
<mpt> or more precisely, for the Bazaar hackers to debug the crash with
<jsgotangco> baz makes a log on that?
<jjesse> morning
<rob^> morning
<jjesse> did my commit to svn come across? i made some changes to kuserguide, but haven't seen the normal email (i'm subscribed to that list that sends out changes)
<mpt> jsgotangco: No, you need to use gdb for it, that's why I asked you earlier if you knew how to use gdb
<rob^> jjesse, yes
<rob^> 1595
<jjesse> thansk rob^ 
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i only see enrico's
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> wait
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> mpt: i'll check it later then
<jsgotangco> im getting a bit sleepy
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> good night
<rob^> night all
<mgalvin> g'night
<rwabel> @RobertStoffers: why did you remove the ubuntuguide link? It's still a ressource! Could u next time comment the change you made
<rwabel> why isn't it possible to revert the last change on the UserDocumentaion?
<highvoltage> rwabel: ubuntuguide is not seen as a reliable link, it also doesn't offer explanations.
<mdke> rwabel, it is always possible to revert
<mgalvin> highvoltage: why is ubuntuguide not seen as reliable? "many" people have found it "very" useful
<mdke> it is a good link and should be there
<mdke> and it is especially bad that there was no comment made when editing that page
<highvoltage> the ubuntu community says that ubuntu-guide should not be recommended. it says so somewhere in the wiki too.
<mgalvin> i don't understand why people, especially the nun don't like ubuntuguide, so many new users have stayed with ubuntu b/c of it
<highvoltage> i'll search for the link quickly...
<mgalvin> yea, the nun
<mdke> highvoltage, the ubuntu community?
<mdke> that depends how you define community dude
<mgalvin> just the nun say that iirc
<highvoltage> mdke: true
<mgalvin> most of the community absolutely love it
<mdke> if you include the thousands and thousands of users of the ubuntuguide, you're gonna struggle to make your point
<mdke> although we have some problems with the guide, i don't hesitate to recommend it for many things
<mdke> rwabel, reverted
<highvoltage> i don't know ubuntuguide, so i don't have any gripes with it. i know that i've seen many, many times, that people on the ubuntu irc channels say that you should avoid ubuntuguide.
<mdke> yeah for some things it is not great
<mdke> but for others it is
<mdke> people on irc channels can get a bit high and mighty sometimes
<mgalvin> yea the people on #ubuntu saying that are nun members and they don't represent the majority... of course it has pros and cons but the pros seem to outweigh the cons
<highvoltage> ah yes, the bot on ubuntu says this when you ask about ubuntuguide:
<highvoltage> 18:45 < ubotu> somebody said ubuntuguide was a set of instructions with no explanation. Please do not advise people to use ubuntuguide.  Advise https://wiki.ubuntu.com instead. The official FAQ Guide will be released with Breezy, stay tuned
<mdke> bah
<mdke> if I wanted to set up Samba I would use it
<mdke> or something like that
<mdke> as I say, they get a bit high and mighty on #ubuntu sometimes
* mdke does his third system restore in as many days
<mdke> gah
<mdke> mgalvin, does the faq guide need any proof reading?
<mgalvin> mdke: yup
<mdke> is it ready for that?
<mgalvin> mostly yes, feel free to start proofing
<mdke> cool
<mdke> i guess the relevant sections are marked review/
<mdke> ?
<mgalvin> thats the status' right?
<mgalvin> no that are not marked
<mdke> ah
<mgalvin> just about the whole thing is done
<mgalvin> java still needs to be worked, but i will have that done soon
<mdke> ok marks some sections "review" and I will do a bit
<mdke> marks/mark
<mgalvin> ok, i will mark those as soon as i get a chance... at work right now
<mdke> cool
<mdke> i have plenty to do on this damn laptop but i haven't done any doc work for ages so it will be nice to do some reviewing
<jjesse> afternoon
<judax> Hi
<jjesse> how ofen does the preview site get updated?  
<rwabel> mdke: thanks for reverting, in my case there has only been revert links for the other changes
<rwabel> highvoltage: doesn't matter if it doesn't offer explanations. It's another ressource. It's no bad. And there has been a long discussion about it. It's an external link and not supported by ubuntu people but it's a know ressource
<highvoltage> rwabel: i didn't say it was a bad resource.
<highvoltage> rwabel: other people have said so. like i said, i have no problems with ubuntu-guide.
* mpt 's head explodes at all the occurrences of the word "resource"
<mgalvin> is everyone one turing into business managers ;)
<jjesse> what mgalvin ?
<mgalvin> calling things/people/page/anything a "resource" is manager speak
<mgalvin> just joking about mpt head exploding b/c of "resource"
<jjesse> grin
* mpt transcends the paradigm
<mdke> jjesse, i updated it yesterday
<jjesse> * thinks outside of the box
<mdke> rwabel, you have to use the revert link on the version you want to revert to
<mdke> rwabel, that's why the latest version has no revert link
<mdke> jjesse, once we have an address for our linode server though, it will be updated daily automatically
<mdke> jjesse, did you get the messages I just posted? not sure if you got disconnected first
<jjesse> hmmm why do i always get disconnected
<jjesse> last one i got was mpt transcending the paradigm
<mdke> ok
<mdke>  [19:38:03]  < mdke> jjesse, i updated it yesterday
<mdke>  [19:39:10]  < mdke> jjesse, once we have an address for our linode server though, it will be updated daily automatically
<jjesse> mdke thanks i was wondering how that worked as i had committed some changes and stuff
<mdke> jjesse, if its to the kde stuff, Sean updates it quite regularly
<jjesse> nod it was kde stuff
<mdke> once we have an address for the linode, both kde and gnome will be updated every day tho
<jjesse> is there a better preview then waiting for it to be updated?
<jjesse> especially in kubuntu
<mdke> you can build it yourself and view it
<mdke> or view it directly as xml
<mdke> to build, do "cd ubuntu-docs/trunk/kde"
<mdke> then "make kall"
* mdke winces
<jjesse> make all or make kall?
<mdke> kall sald
<mdke> sadly
<jjesse> hmm thats different then normal
<jjesse> umm i just got lots of errors on the make kall for kuserguide
<mdke> yeah it sucks. have a look in the makefile to find out how to build individual documents
<jjesse> should i just post the errors in  an email to the doc list?
<mdke> no
<mdke> they are probably because you don't have stuff installed
<jjesse> kuserguide/C/kuserguide.xml:6: parser warning : PEReference: %xinclude; not found
<jjesse> %xinclude;
<mdke> ah
<mdke> that is an error in the xml
<mdke> you should check the xml all the time as you work using the validate.sh script
<mdke> e.g.
<mdke> ./validate.sh kde/kuserguide/kuserguide.xml
<mdke> those sorts of errors can go to the list yeah
<jjesse> ok
<rwabel> mdke: ah ok. thanks
<rwabel> highvoltage: I know others are saying. That wasn't for me a reason to remove it. Acutally I prefer to have it as an external ressource. People can decide by themself if they want to use it or not :-)
<highvoltage> rwabel: cool bananas.
* highvoltage goes to bed...
<rwabel> highvoltage: bananas?
<mpt> Who here knows about the ubuntu-doc SVN repository?
<mpt> mgalvin?
<mgalvin> mpt: whats up
<mpt> mgalvin: Is there a "viewsvn" for the repository?
<mgalvin> i don't think so
<mdke> mpt, what is viewsvn?
<mpt> I don't know :-)
<mdke> what do you want to do?
<mpt> ddaa is currently trying to get ubuntu-doc imported into baz
<mdke> ah
<mpt> as Launchpad does for over 500 other projects developed in CVS/SVN
<mdke> what does he want to do?
<mpt> but ubuntu-doc caused a bug in the import process
<mpt> otherwise it would have happened a couple of weeks ago
<mdke> ok
<mgalvin> viewsvn allows you to view an svn repository via a web interface
<mdke> right
<mgalvin> http://viewsvn.berlios.de/
<mpt> and he was trying to understand the bug
<mdke> you can view it at its address
<mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/
<mdke> does that help?
<mdke> open in a browser
<mdke> but elmo is the best person to help you understand the bug I think
<mpt> yes, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-14
<jenda> Is the drupal theme for ubuntu.com available? I would like to use it for ubuntuvideo.com
<Burgundavia> jenda: ubuntu.com uses moin
<jenda> ah
<jenda> damn
<jenda> i'll prod ubuntu.cz then :)
<nixternal> jenda: http://chi.ubuntu-us.org
<nixternal> is that what you want?
<nixternal> i can zip it and get it to you if needed
<jenda> nixternal: good 'nuff
<jenda> If you could zip and send to John Little instead, it would be great :)
<nixternal> hehe, that is the same theme going around all the other sites ;)
<nixternal> i can do that for him
<jenda> Thanks a bunch.
<jenda> I told him it's coming.
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings/MinutesTemplate
<nixternal> ^^ does that flow ok?
<nixternal> i had my girlfriend make me a meetings minutes template that they use for her board meetings
<LaserJock> nixternal: cheater ;-)
<nixternal> lol
<Burgundavia> nixternal: that just isn't fair
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I am dragooning you into doing the Knot2 stuff
<Burgundavia> I am not going to have the time
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I see, and I have time? :-)
<nixternal> i love it...kubuntu knot2 stuff is done...we are going to add some more minor touches now that we have a bit of a wait on our hands
<Burgundavia> nixternal: then do the gnome one
<nixternal> i can help out, sure
<Burgundavia> night
<LaserJock> lloydinho: you busy?
<lloydinho> LaserJock, not really - what's up?
<LaserJock> lloydinho: oh, I was just going to comment on the template for MOTU
<lloydinho> LaserJock, cool. Anything special?
<LaserJock> do you invision that being wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU or a seperate page linked from there
<lloydinho> I think that would be the first team page that people reach - ie. /MOTU
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> with a team as large as MOTU it might be interesting
<LaserJock> I'll have to work on that
<lloydinho> Well, I thought you could introduce each sub-team as an individual project.
<lloydinho> But the template would be more like guidelines, anyway..
<LaserJock> the sub teams already have their own pages (not terribly well maintianed or done)
<LaserJock> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
<LaserJock> we have 23 teams listed
<LaserJock> lloydinho: basically the problem is we have a littl over 100 MOTU pages
<lloydinho> whoa!
<lloydinho> Cleanup time.
<LaserJock> we've tried to clean up a couple times since I've been around MOTU
<lloydinho> No, what I would like is just a link from the Projects section to the sub-teams page.
<lloydinho> With clear descriptions of the sub-teams...
<lloydinho> ... I guess the problem is that there is simply too many packages and not enough people to fill the teams yet.
<lloydinho> Simply cutting back on the number of teams might help?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I think just advertising the teams would be good
<LaserJock> we don't really utilize them much
<lloydinho> why advertize something that we don't use anyway?
<LaserJock> nobody will use something that they don't know about ;-)
<lloydinho> :-)
<lloydinho> LaserJock, to be fair, I think that cleaning up in a tough way will make it a lot easier for new MOTUs to find their way around. With so many pages, it is kind of tricky knowing what to read.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> gotta be ruthless
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<lloydinho> :-)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-15
<nixternal> hiya jjesse
<jjesse> hiya nixternal
<LaserJock> jjesse: gee whiz man, you need to have your svn password tattoed or something ;-)
<jjesse> LaserJock: i keep on having to redo virtual machines and always forget to copy the password or something stupid :(
<jjesse> but i'm also 5 states away from my local box that has it
<LaserJock> hmm, well I seem to have frozen debconf midway through a dist-upgrade
<jjesse> doh that sucks
<LaserJock> man, what is it doing
<LaserJock> oh wow
<LaserJock> it was doing "less" in the little terminal part of updatee-manager
<LaserJock> so I had to quite less for it to continue
<LaserJock> Burgwork: you at LWE?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, leave early tomorrow morning
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I'm going over late Thursday night
<LaserJock> my wife's aunt lives ~ 1mile from Google
<LaserJock> so we get to stay there
<nixternal> havin' fun on your trip there jjesse?
<jjesse> not really, i was scheduled to be onsite today and tomorrow, but that got canceled so i'm trying to get my gig on wednesday moved up
<nixternal> good deal, you got my email concerning the membership stuff right?
<jjesse> yup
<jjesse> mdke: now that nixternal has membership, can we get him svn access?
<nixternal> i think what mdke wants is a "proven" history with the doc stuff first, which i totally understand..that is why i offered to help him out with the translation stuff this week
<jjesse> well hopefully you have a proven record then :)
<nixternal> actually, got the kubuntu docs translated, xubuntu docs translated, and the packaging and server guide translated
<jjesse> woot
<nixternal> brb, my dog is scratchin' at the door ;)
<nixternal> how many switching wiki pages are there ;)
<nixternal> jjesse: do we have our own page for planning here?
<jsgotangco> hey LaserJock have you decided on anything yet with udr?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well...
<jsgotangco> i'll take that as a "i had fun over the weekend"
<LaserJock> fun isn't what I'd call it exactly
<LaserJock> I haven't had a "fun" weekend for a couple years
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> well, I just don't like it
<jsgotangco> haha
<LaserJock> I have no idea if Debian will move to docbook before edgy is released
<LaserJock> so I hesitate to do it in docbook if we keep the "giant patch to debian's  developers-reference package" scheme
<LaserJock> however, I see more and more reasons to just fork the thing into a seperate package
<jsgotangco> be bold
<jsgotangco> damnit
<jsgotangco> ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> you havin' fun with debiandoc ey
<LaserJock> I don't "want" to have fun with it
<nixternal> is the wiki server on a 56k modem?
<jjesse> running slwo for you?
<nixternal> always
<nixternal> it always runs in one mode for me, and that is aol 1996 slow
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-16
<nixternal> jjesse: i think this is the longest online streak i have seen from you in some time ;)
<LaserJock> :-)
<robotgeek> nixternal: ping
<robotgeek> btw, i should be working in trunk, right?
<LaserJock> yes
<robotgeek> hey LaserJock , how goes it?
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> realy busy :-)
<LaserJock> how about you?
<robotgeek> same here, started working. looks like i am going to have to go back to school because of visa issues. 
<LaserJock> :/
<LaserJock> where are you living these days?
<robotgeek> huntsville, al
<crimsun> that's not a bad thing
<crimsun> normally doctoral students are much better funded than masters
<crimsun> and you get an extra few years to twiddle your sponsors' money
<crimsun> (no, I'm not cynical at all)
<LaserJock> hehe
<robotgeek> heh. 
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco wonders when he'll get the chance to go to school again
<nixternal> whats up robotgeek?
<robotgeek> nixternal: how about we split up the KDG
<nixternal> we can do that
<nixternal> i hadn't realized i was working on that just yet ;)
<nixternal> oh ya, i replied saying i could help, thats right
<robotgeek> heh
<nixternal> just read your email
<LaserJock> lol
<nixternal> man...digg is in the process of killing the new usernetwork
<LaserJock> you know you're doing too much when you start forgeting you signed up for things :-)
<LaserJock> really?
<nixternal> heh, and that was within the last 24 hours
<LaserJock> nixternal: got a link for digg?
<nixternal> google.com
<nixternal> lol
<robotgeek> lol
<nixternal> LaserJock: it is on the front page
<nixternal> www.digg.com
<nixternal> i almost did diff..i only created 30 of um today
<nixternal> i see our new quote of the day
<nixternal> KJay says "Wow, looks like Ubuntu is the new Apple."
<crimsun> that's kinda insulting.
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> i like the poeple who are like, ubuntu and linux need to figure out how apple does all their stuff with a gui, and with linux you still have to use the terminal...just like the us gov't, always wanting to dumb things down
<LaserJock> hmm, I've had a lot more frustration with OS X than Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but that might be because I want OS X to behave like Ubuntu ;-)
<nixternal> i can't stand osx
<LaserJock> I'm liking it a lot more after I kinda let go of Ubuntu habits
<LaserJock> "don't try to bend the spoon" or something like that
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> qucksilver is awesome
<robotgeek> in kde, i have same keyboard shortcuts as in OS X. just cause os x wont behave like kde 
<LaserJock> but unfortunately I reinstalled OS X the other day and now I don't have MS Office
<LaserJock> which I kinda need
<LaserJock> I feel so dirty :-)
<LaserJock> I hate needing MS crap, grrr :(
<jsgotangco> i am glad i am in a work that doesnt require me to do MS stuff
<LaserJock> oh my goodness
<LaserJock> and now Firefox is crashing all the time
<LaserJock> what a day
<jsgotangco> firefox on xp?
<LaserJock> I started out with 2 edgy dist-upgrades going bad
<LaserJock> OS X
<jsgotangco> i heard safari isn't like great at all?
<LaserJock> actually no OS X browsers are that great
<LaserJock> I've tried safari, camino, opera, and firefox
<jsgotangco> how does opera stack up?
<LaserJock> and they all stink to varying extents
<LaserJock> opera's not bad
<LaserJock> but they all vary in their level of integration with OS X
<LaserJock> excellent, now firefox won't even start up
<jsgotangco> i would say opera would be most stable among those you mentioned
<jsgotangco> its pretty consistent in most platforms ive used
<jsgotangco> even on my mobile phone
<jsgotangco> or my nintendo ds even
<LaserJock> yeah, I like opera ok
<LaserJock> I don't know, I've never really found a browser I've liked
<jsgotangco> ive just warmed to epi
<LaserJock> yeah, I did for a while too
<jsgotangco> but opera has this really nasty bug of suddenly going berzerk and open up its own instance without any toolbars
<robotgeek> nasty
<LaserJock> well, as far as I can tell all OS X browsers have nasty tab behavior
<jsgotangco> s/opera/epi
<robotgeek> anyways, gotta cook food. later
<jsgotangco> opera just doesn't look great in linux either
<jsgotangco> fonts rendering isnt consistent
<LaserJock> ok, well OS X is acting real odd, like it's going to explode into tiny bits any second
<LaserJock> I think I'll reboot
<LaserJock> brb
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, well that was fun
<Madpilot> right, I've basicaly decided that LP karma is mostly random... I've done nothing, zip on LP for at least a week, but I seem to have gained around 10,000 karma points...
<mpt> Madpilot, that's kind of a design bug in the way karma is distributed
<Madpilot> is it connected to activity by the teams I'm part of, or is that karma gain really just random?
<mpt> Madpilot, currently if people do more work in (for example) specifications, that makes less karma available overall for (for example) bugs and translations
<mpt> I just showed your complaint to sabdfl and we agreed the current approach was kinda bong :-)
<mpt> so I'll talk to stub about it
<Madpilot> heh. I know LP is very much a work-in-progress... the random nature of karma is actually quite amusing ;)
<mpt> Yes, but time is one of the dimensions of design
<mpt> So for example, if people learn to ignore karma now, they'll keep ignoring it even once it becomes accurate
<Madpilot> true
<lloydinho> I wrote a huge blogpost comparing various karma systems, if you're interested:
<lloydinho> http://eskar.dk/andreas/blog/?p=154
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi lloydinho 
<lloydinho> hi Kamping_Kaiser
<lloydinho> Kamping_Kaiser, thank you for the praise on the Karma article. Much appreciated. :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lloydinho, np, it was a good read :)
<dsas> "If this book sells well, there will be another, and we can keep having a high quality official guide for Ubuntu." heh
<jsgotangco> heh that sounds a bit hmmmm
<jsgotangco> not so promising? heh
<dsas> Dunno, It's from Jono Bacons blog. I was just hehing at needing to buy the book in order to have a high quality official guide.
<jsgotangco> yeah there is some irony of sorts
<jsgotangco> depends on how you interpret the statement i guess
<dsas> I suppose. Though I've only read the sample chapters of the book anyway, so I'm probably not the best placed to comment.
<jsgotangco> same here
<jsgotangco> we'll see amazon reviews soon though
<mpt> "Guide" is a weasel term :-)
<jsgotangco> ouch planet ubuntu demon
<jsgotangco> "At first the NUN was nothing more than an IRC channel (#ubuntu-nun on the freenode network) that we could bring a user from #kubuntu or #ubuntu into, for one-on-one work that couldn't be done in the busier support channels. Since then, it has become a popular haven for geeks and new users alike," says Rich Johnson, a NUN mentor.
<jsgotangco> nixternal: ^^
<nixternal> Burgwork: hangin' out with Adam I see ;)  smack him around and tell him to hurry up and get ubuntuchicago blog rollin' ;)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-17
<Plug> Did/does Dapper have an (d-i) installation guide, like prior versions?
<Plug> or since Ubiquity became 'the way to install' was it dropped?
<jsgotangco> it has the traditional install guide
<jsgotangco> not sure about the desktop CD though
<jsgotangco> since it boots directly to live
<HighBit> http://tinyurl.com/m48lc
<HighBit> who's excited about docs on a plane?
<nixternal> whats up guys
<nixternal> fo0d time
<Plug> jsgotangco: I can't find it on the web
<Laser_away> Plug: what? d-i?
<Plug> yeah, for dapper
<Plug> it stops at Breezy
<bimberi> Plug: do you mean the guides off https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation ?
<Plug> not as such
<Plug> http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs01.html exists
<Plug> s/breezy/dapper/, 404.
<Laser_away> hmm
<Plug> It's important as dapper uses Etch's d-i, which has, among other things, removed base-config.
<Laser_away> must have gone somewhere
<Laser_away> honestly I've never seen any installation docs
<Laser_away> but I must be looking in the wrong places
<Laser_away> because people say they exist :-)
<Plug> I think I've asked before and they've never been there :)  I just went to the Debian d-i docs at the time
<Plug> I'm doing a huge wikipage update on install CD cutomization
<Laser_away> ah cool
<jsgotangco> im pretty positive mdke had it placed on help.u.c during the dapper development cycle
<jsgotangco> hmm this change in the front page of the wiki looks pretty self serving
<bimberi> jsgotangco: the games stuff?  i agree
<nixternal> i wish robotgeek would pop back up..he wanted to split the kdg, i want to know what he splits
<nixternal> jjesse: SFW, what direction are we taking with it?  are we going to split sections?  deadline?  anythign else you can think of put <here> ;)
<Plug> so!
<Plug> I've been busy
<Plug> on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization
<nixternal> looks good Plug
* nixternal bookmarks that
<poningru> http://www.osnews.com/img/15517/linuxworld2.jpg
<poningru> err wtf
<LaserJock> cool, Burgundiva and whiprush
<bimberi_> what's the award?
<LaserJock> not sure
<bimberi_> "Golden Penguin Bowl" trophy - http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15518
<nixternal> is it me or do the fedora guys look like jerry's kids?
<nixternal> omg one of my old bosses is on page 2
<nixternal> lol
<bimberi_> nixternal: lemme guess, Mototola?
<nixternal> haha ya
<bimberi_> :)
<nixternal> guy martin, as a matter of fact, he is the head dude for the division now
<nixternal> he is so stinkin' rich now it isn't even funny
<poningru> yeah
<poningru> apperantly they kicked novells ass
<poningru> waah?
<poningru> who?
<jjesse> when?
<bimberi_> Burgundavia and whiprush - at bowling!?
<nixternal> i know corey is there with one of the Ubuntu Chicago guys
<poningru> he is on the planet iirc
<poningru> so quick question, there was a to do list for the wiki a while ago
<nixternal> jjesse: you working on ubuntu switching guide as well?
<poningru> but now I cant find it
<nixternal> poningru: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCleanup
<nixternal> there you go..have at it ;)
<poningru> :)
<poningru> thanks
<nixternal> that is pretty much the wiki todo list..at least it should be..but because of edgy and doc updates it has been put on a back burner
<poningru> oh wtf
<nixternal> lol
<poningru> hmm ic
<poningru> yeah /me was searching through the wiki
<bimberi_> nixternal: you're cruel
<bimberi_> ;)
<poningru> you guys are nuts... :p
<nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiToDo
* poningru dives in just to spite nixternal 
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> the todo list is going to point you to the same thing ;)
<poningru> hmm yeah
<poningru> so is that geared toward lts or edgy?
<poningru> anyone...
<LaserJock> is what geared?
<nixternal> LaserJock: any luck with the debiandoc stuff?
<LaserJock> heh, not yet
<LaserJock> I"m trying to get through the rest of the week
<poningru> LaserJock: the to category cleanup thing
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> I've got Ubucon on Friday
<nixternal> nice..i tried to get some time to get there...but i got school crap to get ready for this weekend
<nixternal> i emailed the professors and was like can we move this stuff until monday..i have a plane to catch for cali
<nixternal> they are like..nope you have 1 week until class starts
<LaserJock> well, I have 1 presentation almost done, and perhaps I will do another one (I don't know yet :( )
<nixternal> nice
* poningru still doesnt have the answer :(
* poningru looks at nixternal with puppy eyes
<nixternal> im doin' a goofy lecture next week.. they call it a "lightning" something or other..im doing mine on KDE and PIM for PDA type stuff
<nixternal> what answer?
<nixternal> laod
<nixternal> das
<nixternal> lol
<poningru> dude what is that category cleanup articles supposed to be geared towards? edgy or lts?
<LaserJock> poningru: I don't think it really matters
<poningru> if something comes up, leave it alone?
<nixternal> i usually attack the easy ones truthfully
<nixternal> get the little ones out of the way and pray someone comes along and takes care of the big ones
<nixternal> the big ones usually have 4 or 5 other pages with the same stuff
<nixternal> like NVidia and ATI
<nixternal> they both have 23483423 pages each..and people keep creating versions that still don't work cuz the driver support is garbage
<poningru> well the first on the list 32bit 64bit has pretty good explanation on the forums 
<poningru> so I was gonna go bug the author
<nixternal> oh, and who could forget VMware..i have been working on that for who knows how long..and every time i start it back up..they change versions..and when they change versions you upgrade, or your license runs out
<nixternal> so...i have been working on creating new..and then whiping the others out/merging them into 1 page
<poningru> heh
<poningru> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Gentoo_has_a_better_cow_than_Ubuntu
<poningru> rofl
<jsgotangco> hey they actually dug a malone bug
<Madpilot> jsgotangco, which one? bug 1?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<jsgotangco> no the super cow powers thing in apt
<Madpilot> link, pls? it's not on digg's front page, and that's as far as I ever bother with digg ;)
<bimberi_> bug 56125
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56125 in apt "doesnt look like a cow" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56125
<jsgotangco> its a critical bug
<jsgotangco> heh
<Madpilot> good lord
<Madpilot> ;)
<Madpilot> hi robitaille 
<robitaille> Hi Madpilot 
<Plug> hi Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi Plug 
<Plug> what needs cleaning up about h.u.c/coimmunity/ClamAV ?
<Plug> I tidied it up some weeks ago but see its made it back in
<Madpilot> Plug, ah, that was my fault, I see. If you think it's sane currently, go ahead and take it back out of Cleanup
<mdke> does anyone know if jjesse's patches are cumulative?
<nixternal> i don't know..he just came up with a big chunk tonight, which i see you posted
<nixternal> i don't think that included teh phil bull ones though
<nixternal> phil bull has the preparing.xml patch
<nixternal> couples posts ago
<mdke> I'll let jonathan review it then
<nixternal> i think he did, and that is what brought up the reason of him mailing the list..he couldn't commit
<nixternal> i can review and validate local if you would like..or just wait for jonathan to do so
<nixternal> actually..it is 3:30am..im off to bed
<nixternal> g'nite
<mdke> does anyone know why we use this:
<mdke> +<!ENTITY ubuntu '<phrase>Ubuntu</phrase>'>
<mdke> lloydinho: yeah, I'll do that now
<lloydinho> mkde: cool
<mdke> lloydinho: one thing - the interwiki links will not work
<lloydinho> hm!
<mdke> you can change those to urls afterwards, or before, if you prefer
<mdke> before is better, if you want to put it on the website, if you want it to stay on the wiki, after is better
<lloydinho> well... I'd much prefer to just have to do the changes once.
<lloydinho> So I'll just do them now.
<lloydinho> by "interwiki" you mean the links that refer to other pages in the Ubuntu wiki? Or pages in the Doc wiki?
<mdke> both of those
<lloydinho> okay, I'll get back to you shortly.
<mdke> the latter doesn't exist though, right?
<mdke> anything which isn't a url, basically
<lloydinho> right, I'll run through the doc now, then.
<mdke> (unlink LoCo, btw)
<mdke> that's one hell of a document, great work
<lloydinho> hm, I thought I found all of those. I'll check again.
<lloydinho> wow, running the whole doc again, there was a fair few things that needed fixing..
<lloydinho> mdke, it's all yours to export and commit, now.
<mdke> lloydinho: uploaded. I haven't tidied the xml because tidy seems to have an annoying bug which means that it loses a whitespace after a link
<lloydinho> mdke: cool, thanks. Don't know what to do about the tidy bit, though.
<mdke> we can use tidy then correct the spaces
<lloydinho> well, you make it sound so easy ;-)
<mdke> lloydinho: heh, am struggling with some validity issues with it though
<lloydinho> yeah, I saw that. Mostly problems with the bold type, as far as I can see.
<mdke> yes. I suspect a bug for mvirkkil 
<lloydinho> Actually, most of the bold types I'd rather turn into little info boxes - but I don't know if it is possible to do directly in the wiki.
<mdke> mvirkkil: if you have time, a bug for you with emphasis tags not getting closed here: http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de/MatthewEast/ContributeToUbuntu
<lloydinho> (that would save some editing later on)
<mdke> ooh, they don't get closed on the Moin page either
<mdke> perhaps a moin bug then
<lloydinho> strange, why would it do it in moin and not on the Ubuntu wiki?
<mdke> devel version
<mvirkkil> mdke: Ok. I'll try to see if I can fix it :)
<mdke> mvirkkil: seems to be a moin bug, see #moin
<mvirkkil> mdke: Yeah, I'm seeing it like that too :/
<mdke> lloydinho: alright, I've hacked out all the errors, you should probably give it a quick proof read
<lloydinho> mdke - cool. Will do.
<mdke> lloydinho: that is one hell of a good job
<mdke> congrats
<Laser_away> hi lloydinho 
<lloydinho> mdke: thanks! 
<lloydinho> hi LaserJock 
<lloydinho> .. it's eaten the whitespaces after each link, but otherwise it looks fine.
<LaserJock> lloydinho: check out http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/ubucon.odp
<LaserJock> it's getting close to done
<mdke> oh damn, I corrected it once, then reverted and forgot to correct again
<lloydinho> mdke, btw. People are still proof-reading the original on the wiki - I hope it won't be a problem to export it again later?
<LaserJock> if there aren't that many changes we could probably use the moin diff and do it manually
<mdke> well, I might have to go through it again and hack the errors out, we'll see
<mdke> the bold bug has been fixed already though
<mdke> maybe most of the errors were due to that
<lloydinho> mdke: I think so, I didn't notice any other problems when I first looked at it.
<lloydinho> in any case, it is something we will have to figure out, if we are going towards more wiki-based doc writing.
<mdke> i mean in terms of the docbook
<mdke> yes, sure.
<mdke> lloydinho: you can try the exporting procedure yourself by using the wiki at docbook.wikiwikiweb.de (http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de/MatthewEast/ContributeToUbuntu)
<lloydinho> mdke: yes, I meant the first docbook draft that you posted.
<lloydinho> mdke: cool. I'll try it out.
<mdke> you can test validity using the validate.sh script in our repo
<mdke> wait until mvirkkil has updated the wiki though, because that will fix the bold bug
<nixternal> when are we going to get that great feature?  wiki2docbook that is
<lloydinho> cool. Yes, I tried that before when I did patches for the desktop guides.
<lloydinho> LaserJock, your presentation looks good. 
<lloydinho> A bit text heavy, maybe - but good.
<LaserJock> ok
<lloydinho> You should perhaps consider less information on each slide, or maybe just string the info out over several slides.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm used to science presentations :-)
<lloydinho> and pictures! More pictures!
<LaserJock> bah, pictures
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I'll try
<mdke> nixternal: it's active on the wiki I posted above
<mdke> already works quite well
<LaserJock> jsgotangco suggested a picture or 2 from Paris
<lloydinho> check the wiki pages for the various summits. There are lots of pictures there
<nixternal> mdke: i use do the same thing actually..i use moinmoin, create the page, export it, and then delete it
<nixternal> wow
<nixternal> i do the same thing*
<nixternal> fumblefingers already this morning
<lloydinho> oh, and LaserJock - you should definitely have slide presenting yourself and how you got involved.
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah
<LaserJock> I was planning on doing more of talking about that
<LaserJock> but maybe a slide would help out
<lloydinho> Telling the sordid story of one mild-mannered chemist turned into a raging ubunt-holic. ;-)
<lloydinho> *ubuntu-holic
<nixternal> lloydinho: simply amazing work on the list you created...amazing job!
<lloydinho> nixternal, thanks!
<nixternal> i think everything is covered
<nixternal> and then some
<lloydinho> heh. Yeah, it's probably to big, too. Writing it, I really wanted there to be some procedure for creating new teams.
<nixternal> heh, why create a team now, you listed every team known to man ;)
<lloydinho> I think at least 2 or 3 new teams came up in the past 2 weeks.
<lloydinho> "Forum howto to help.ubuntu.com" team, PDA testers team, what have you ... 
<lloydinho> and I haven't even gone through all of the launchpad teams.. *shudder*
<LaserJock> mwuahaha
<nixternal> oh ya, i see the pda team is on there now..hehe
<LaserJock> I realized last night that I'm missing translation
<lloydinho> yeah. It wasn't until a couple of days ago that I realized that I'd forgotten the Ubuntu Women's team.
<lloydinho> Now, hopefully, the community won't grow any more :-P
<nixternal> ooh, that would have been bad ;)
<trappist> by the way, I'm finally back to where I can work on docs.  the guy who was living in the computer room has gone back to ireland :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-19
<theCore> it's really quiet today
<Madpilot> shhh!
<Madpilot> ;)
<Madpilot> Burgundavia! How's Ubucon so far?
<Burgundavia> pretty good
<Burgundavia> sitting in a mall with whiprush and adam
<Madpilot> borrowing wireless?
<Burgundavia> oh, not told nickserv who I am
<nixternal> over here instead
<Burgundavia> ok, x-g has this cool new feature where they have this line to see where you were when you last looked at the channel
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, Xchat has always had that - nice to see that x-g is finally getting a few actual features, however :)
<Burgundavia> right
<nixternal> que es eso?
<nixternal> x-g
<Madpilot> Xchat-Gnome
<nixternal> heh
<Madpilot> Xchat-Godawful
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> konversation for kde is nice for gui..very simple and clean
<nixternal> probably the nicest gui i have seen next to mIRC
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, so as tonight is your actual birthday, shouldn't you be going out to get totally ripped?
<nixternal> ooh
<nixternal> Happy Birthday Corey!!!
<Burgundavia> no, did that last night
<Burgundavia> it was bad
<nixternal> hehe
<Madpilot> still hungover?
<Burgundavia> not really, but tired
<Madpilot> so you're not going to repeat tonight?
<Burgundavia> not really
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, how long does Ubucon run?
<Burgundavia> today and tomorrow
<Madpilot> cool
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: how do I find out who owns a channel and who has access to it?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, /msg chanserv info #name-of-channel
<Burgundavia> that gets me nothing
<Madpilot> it should - try /msg chanserv info #ubuntu
<Burgundavia> a  big fat desktop
<nixternal>  /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
<Madpilot> nixternal, thanks, I always forget the access command to get op names ;)
<nixternal> im a chanserv junky
<nixternal> i have hit /msg chanserv help so many times i know him by heart now
<Burgundavia> hmm, that doesn't work fo rme
<Burgundavia> ok, it did work, but x-g was dumb
<Burgundavia> nixternal: can you join #ubuntu>gentoo please
<nixternal> join what
<Burgundavia> nixternal: thanks
* nixternal points to rob as well Burgundavia if he gets way out of line as well
<nixternal> he has been a lot of help in the past for issues like this as well
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage is also a freenode staffer
<Madpilot> it's useful having Freenode staff working closely w/ us
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, not currently, she resigned
<Madpilot> nalioth is staff now, though
<Burgundavia> really?
<Burgundavia> I know she is pretty busy
<nixternal> i messaged nalioth, he is out drinking southwestern beer im sure ;)
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: dealt with. Thanks for helping me
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, no problem.
<Madpilot> What is it about IRC that brings out the worst in some people, anyway?
<dsas> anonymity
<nixternal> yup
<Burgundavia> tell me about it
<Burgundavia> rob: ping
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, [rob]  idle 04:38:01, signon: Fri Aug 18 08:57:46
<nixternal> also, he isn't a member
<nixternal> there are no Christophers
<Burgundavia> right
<nixternal>  /stats p
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal>  /who freenode/staff/*
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> they are all 'away'
<Burgundavia> nixternal: you speak french?
<nixternal> no, but google does ;)
<Burgundavia> rightg
<nixternal> either this guy isn't listening or google is wrong
<Burgundavia> he just came back
<Madpilot> Good night, all - got to be at work at 0730, 7hrs 26min away... bleh
<nixternal> mdke: ping?
#ubuntu-doc 2006-08-20
* rob looks in
<Burgundavia> hello all
<rob> hi Burgundavia 
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia 
<LaserJock> Burgundavia!!
<Burgundavia> I notice #ubuntu>gentoo is still around. Did that issue see a resolution?
<Madpilot> so, no Ubucon blogpost yet?
<Burgundavia> not yet
<Burgundavia> finished today
<LaserJock> hehe, he has to recover first
<Plug> What was #ubuntu>gentoo all about?
<rob> someone poked me earlier?
<Madpilot> Plug, rude people, mostly
<Plug> I see
<rob> what did they do?
<Burgundavia> kicked me for no reason and they swore at me when I told them they were not very nice people
<LaserJock> are they Ubuntu users or just the generic troll?
<rob> why did you do that? did they attack you?
<Burgundavia> no, they are gentoo users
<Burgundavia> rob: I can send you the logs, if you want
<Burgundavia> Seveas has them
<rob> sitting in a channel called Ubuntu > Gentoo?
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> they are gentoo people in ubuntu>gentoo?
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> I could of sworn that I learned > and < correctly in school ;-)
<Plug> do they mean > as in greater than, or > as in directional migration
<Madpilot> it's supposed to be "Ubuntu to Gentoo", not greater than
<rob> ah, well if they are trolls they are doing a bad job :P
<crimsun> LaserJock: unfortunately we haven't quite mastered the perfect past (have, not of ;)
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> hukd on fonuks wurkd for me :-)
<Burgundavia> you know, we should actually work on documentation this cycle
<Burgundavia> I know most of us are hardon for marketing right now
<LaserJock> marketing?
<LaserJock> I want other people working on marketing, but I'm afraid I stink at it
<Burgundavia> mdke, jerome, Madpilot and myself have been doing work on that team recently
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> unfortunately, IMO
<LaserJock> the doc team shouldn't have to be the marketing team too
<LaserJock> of course if the doc team *wants* to be the marketing team ....
<Burgundavia> right
<nixternal> all my marketing efforts are with the Ubuntu Chicago LoCo now...I am working with Jonathan and Phil with the Switching Guide, but I want to get more involved with docs as well
<jenda> mdke: ping
<mvirkkil> mdke: ping
<jenda> hmm, double ping
<theCore> ping *
<mvirkkil> theCore: pong
* theCore don't really expect 25 *pongs*
<theCore> yay
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-13
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4226 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: kubuntu index updates
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<nixternal> mdke: svn isn't building daily it seems...everything builds fine locally, if you can find out from the logs what the problems are I can look into fixing it
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4227 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): remove temp redirect for kubuntu index and update sidebar for kubuntu
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4228 ubuntu/internet/C/networking.xml: Removed unneccessary topics
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4229 ubuntu/internet/C/web-apps.xml: Removed unneccessary topics
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4230 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Removed unneccessary topics
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4231 kubuntu/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Added relevant user admin info to basic-concepts
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Removed user admin info from keeping-safe
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Added 2 example images for user admin
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Updated index links in support section
<mdke> nixternal: the server is down for the foreseeable future
<nixternal> down as in not building, or going down down as in can view?
<nixternal> s/can/can't
<mdke> that server was compromised and has been taken down
<nixternal> ahh, well doc.ubuntu.com can be viewed
<mdke> doc.u.c has already been migrated to a canonical server, but I wouldn't have thought they have got round to arranging to build things yet
<nixternal> ahh, OK..that's cool
<nixternal> so then it isn't a makefile issue..that is all I was checking on
<mdke> doubt it
<jjesse> mdke: do you know if the change would affect logins to d.u.c
<nixternal> lol
<jjesse> i can't login via ssh to doc.ubuntu.com
<jjesse> not using the pwd i thought i had
<mdke> jjesse: erm, yes of course
<jjesse> is it a new install or a migration of the existing box?
<mdke> jjesse: well, neither I think
<mdke> I'm not sure yet what services will be available
<mdke> we'll have to wait and see
<jjesse> mdke: oh
<jjesse> i just figured cause i could get to svn i could ssh into it
<mdke> the svn server has always been on a different machine to doc.ubuntu.com
<jjesse> oh yeah silly me
* jjesse is having a rough day at work
<mdke> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-14
<nixternal> Kubuntu tasks added to the DocTeam wiki page
<mdke> good job
<robotgeek> nixternal: thanks for adding, taking a look now
<robotgeek> nixternal: i wil grab unrar
<nixternal> excellent
<robotgeek> after i eat my pasta and finish teh daily show
<nixternal> I finished the quicken write up..working on the publisher/scribus write up now
<robotgeek> nixternal: shouldn't the nvidia/ati drivers just work
<robotgeek> with the restricted drivers
<nixternal> ooh, ya, I forgot about that now that Kubuntu has the restricted thing
<nixternal> wow, that makes that section "Easy" and "Complete" pretty much :)
<robotgeek> heh
<robotgeek> i can take up the wifi section too
<nixternal> we could be done way ahead of time then..unless you can come up with things to add
<nixternal> the wifi base is there, just needs a little love
<nixternal> I did the base for Feisty
<robotgeek> i saw that, i used to maintain the wifidocs page on the wiki
<nixternal> you are my hero
<robotgeek> and you are mine :)
<nixternal> whee :)
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4232 kubuntu/ (4 files in 4 dirs): added new sections and updated index
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4233 kubuntu/validate_all.sh: little bash script that will allow quick validation of all Kubuntu docs
<robotgeek> nixternal: did you break validation, i am trying to see if you broke it (or fixed it?)
<nixternal> everything validates
<nixternal> never mind the little validation error with index about entrytbl
<robotgeek> oh okay :)
<nixternal> ya, I don't know why it complains about that..it works as it should and is a valid label
<robotgeek> uggh, i removed vim-full, need to edit with vim-tiny
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4234 kubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: added the ati and nvidia restricted manager information
<nixternal> woohoo, that was easy :)
<robotgeek> nixternal: good going!
<nixternal> I can see us being available for a total review this week, with a new package uploaded, and the translations starting
<robotgeek> i think i should dump vim and get an editor that just works, like kate :)
<nixternal> yes, kate rocks
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4235 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: updated index
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4236 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: more index updates
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4237 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: last update, promise
<robotgeek> konqueror is pissing me off
<nixternal> what is it doing?
<robotgeek> i can't see the built index, even after copying to /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/
<robotgeek> i moved the older kubuntu to kubuntu-feisty
<robotgeek> There is no documentation available for /kubuntu/basic-concepts/user-mgmt.html ...grrr!
<robotgeek> all the help:/ links which refer kubuntu dont work
<nixternal> ya, they go back...I just browse to the trunk/build/kubuntu directory and try to avoid clicking on any of the links
* robotgeek takes a deep deep breath
<nixternal> hehe
<robotgeek> man, nothing has been going well for me today. my vim is painfully slow, and khelpcenter links dont work.
<robotgeek> all i want to see if where to insert the unrar section :)
<nixternal> the khelpcenter links work as they should by pointing to a help:/ based url...just gotta get used to that
<nixternal> the fun part will be converting all of those links to http links when I build them for the website
<robotgeek> well, we probably also need to handle the extra C directory while being built.
<robotgeek> khelpcenter expects it at /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ , while when we build, we get kubuntu/C/about-kubuntu
<nixternal> true
<nixternal> ya, but when I build the package, it gets moved over correctly
<nixternal> the C translates to en during packaging
<robotgeek> oh okay. cool.
<nixternal> that pain is the stupid Firefox frontpage and translations
<nixternal> that silly perl script doesn't work as it should...so I need to figure out how to go about fixing that
<robotgeek> perl..good luck
<nixternal> ya, I think if I decide to keep a script like that, I am converting it to python right away
<robotgeek> yup, then i could also possibly help
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I used to know perl, but for some reason, it looks so cryptic to me now
<robotgeek> umm, isn't dolphin the default file mangler in gutsy?
<nixternal> hrmm...if it is, I hope it understand the help:/ kio
<robotgeek> heh
<nixternal> if it doesn't, no huge deal, because KHelpCenter does
<nixternal> plus I don't even see dolphin on my gutsy box yet
* robotgeek tries
<nixternal> oh ya I d
<nixternal> o
<nixternal> nope it doesn't
<robotgeek> it seems restricted to file mangling
<nixternal> you know what...I think it does...if you look in the top right corner at the big icon, it says "about-kubuntu" and has it labeled as html
<nixternal> dolphin doesn't do html
<robotgeek> oh well, i guess we should also link to dolphin, as it will be the default file manager
<nixternal> I guess so..need to find out more from Riddell first..I don't remember it being agreed upon just yet
* robotgeek undeletes konqueror
<nixternal> OK, filed a bug for Dolphin and help:/ kio
<nixternal> it is funny, if I navigate to the doc html file and click on it, dolphin opens up konqi...but doing the help:/ it gives the malformed url error, yet it knows it is an html file
<robotgeek> funny the way things work. but i like the looks of dolphin. its very clean
<robotgeek> btw, my problem was vim trying to connect to X server. vim -X fixes speed issue!
<nixternal> that it is
<nixternal> it is growing on me
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4238 kubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: added 64bit flash section procedure TODO
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4239 kubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: don't forget about flash and java
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4240 kubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: oops, forgot to remove that
<nixternal> hehe, doing a quick push before bed time
<robotgeek> nixternal: i am almost done with my small edit. damn, i have been out of the loop.
<robotgeek> nixternal: adding this entire section: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/file-managing.html
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> rock on
<robotgeek> it just seemed too bare with unrar section :)
<nixternal> did I forget the file managing stuff? for some reason I thought it got into the files-and-docs
<nixternal> where are you putting it at?
<robotgeek> in the same folder
<robotgeek> under files-tips.xml
<nixternal> umm, we don't have a desktopguide though in gutsy
<nixternal> and the way the indexes build is that the folder name and the *.xml name are the same...so if you could fit it into files-and-docs that would be great actually
<robotgeek> i'm sorry, i missed the initial plan to this, so how do we want to handle it? should i just add the unrar item ?
<robotgeek> oh okay, i will fix it then
<robotgeek> okay, will do.
<nixternal> just double check and make sure I didn't forget stuff out to the dg from 6.10...but I think most of the file stuff that was in the dg is also in the konqueror handbook, so I may have just linked everything instead of copying it all over
<robotgeek> yeah, sounds like a better thing to have done.
<nixternal> ya, plus the whole CC-by-SA for us and GFDL for KDE thing too that kind of hurts
<nixternal> but there is a lot of great KDE documentation that is hidden in that mess called KHelpCenter
<robotgeek> yeah, is learnt a lot about kio:/ there.
<robotgeek> man, it feels like something MS did!
<nixternal> haha
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: robotgeek * r4241 kubuntu/files-and-docs/C/files-and-docs.xml: Added section about file manglign
<robotgeek> damn, that thing is fast
<mdke> morning
<robotgeek> hey mdke
<robotgeek> alrite, i am off to bed. gotta get to work tomorrow
<mdke> buongiorno enrico
* mdke goes to work
<mpt> The FSF are currently working on a SFDL (Simple Free Documentation License)
<mpt> It gets rid of the cover-pages-and-invariant-texts problem from the FDL
<mpt> but it retains the attribute-many-of-the-previous-authors problem
<ubotu> New bug: #132462 in ubuntu-doc "Xubuntu help list terminal located at Application>System>Terminal" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132462
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4242 ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent: Added restricted-manager entity
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4243 ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml: Mention Xubuntu as well as Kubuntu, and provide instructions on how to change between DEs
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4244 ubuntu/internet/C/networking.xml: Added sections on Samba shares, including creating shares and using smbpasswd
<mdke> now to find out how to apply a "bzr bundle"
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-15
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<robotgeek> damn, i dozed off. what a waste of useful time
<Admiral_Chicago> woot. I get to do doc work today
<Admiral_Chicago> heya robotgeek
<mdke> mpt: interesting about the license; wonder if Gnome will adopt it
<mdke> dsas: no attachment...
<dsas> mdke: doh! I do that too often.
<mdke> me too :)
<dsas> A thunderbird extension to scan the text of your mail for 'attach*' and warn you if there's not an attachment would be nice.
* mdke nods
<mdke> so deskbar is there by default eh?
<mdke> what is deskbar?
<mdke> ah, it's that irritating search thing
<mdke> dsas: does it not have any yelp documentation?
<dsas> mdke: no there's no help link when I right click on it.
<dsas> I didn't actually search yelp though... I'll have a look.
<mdke> hmm, bad
<dsas> hmm
<mdke> so is that yet another search option we need to include in the searching files section; or is it integrated with tracker?
<dsas> there is help, but the yelp search function doesn't find it.
<dsas> I think it uses whatever nautilus does. but might not be right.
<mdke> perhaps we should say "for more about searching, see *link*"
<dsas> ok, i'll link to the help too.
<mdke> link to the bit in the userguide which deals with searching, if you can
<mdke> (userguide#nautilus-searching)
<mdke> whoops; user-guide#nautilus-searching
<dsas> hmm, interesting that nautilus seems to have *two* search interfaces. places->search on the panel and places->search from a nautilus window.
<dsas> the deskbar applet manual basically just consists of copyright info. So there's no point linking to it.
<mdke> dsas: on feisty the manual is quite good; are you sure? try /usr/share/gnome/help/deskbar/c/deskbar.xml
<mdke> well, it's large; not sure about good
<dsas> hmm
<dsas> all seems to be commented out here (gutsy)
<mdke> dsas: you don't have introduction/usage/settings/about
<mdke> ?
<mdke> maybe give them a poke upstream and see what's going on
<dsas> I have introduction and about
<mdke> perhaps they didn't have time to update it and commented it out
<mdke> dsas: if you fancy it, you might be able to help them :)
<dsas> mdke: ok, i'll get in touch with them. Should we link to #nautilus-search regardless of the quality of the deskbar manual?
<mdke> dsas: yes I think so; because I believe there is someone interested in expanding that section to deal with searching generally
<mdke> dsas: I've added you to the authors list btw; afaics there isn't anything more we need to do, licence wise. I can't remember if we need to change the title of the document for our modification, probably we do
<mdke> mpt: ^^ ?
<dsas> I think we do yes, (each gnome manual used to be titled e.g. "gnome-terminal v2.8 manual" for precisely that reason.
<dsas> they stopped doing that because they realised their doc team wasn't likely to sue theirselves (or something)
<mdke> haha
<mdke> dsas: ok, i have to go to work; if you do an amended patch I'll apply it this evening
<dsas> ok, I have to leave the house in 10 mins myself. have fun.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<mdke> hiya philbull
<philbull> hey mdke
<philbull> pitti seems interested in the restricted-manager docs
<philbull> (it is installed by default in Gutsy)
<mdke> just not on your system?
<philbull> yep
<philbull> there was a bug in tribe 2 which deselected it
<philbull> ubuntu-desktop only recommends it, so it hadn't been installed in subsequent updates
<philbull> mdke: do you have any ideas on how to open Yelp from a python app?
<mdke> philbull: "yelp"?
<philbull> we were thinking of using gnome.help_display('topic-name')
<mdke> fraid I know nothing about python; but just however all apps do it from the help menu, I guess
<philbull> not to worry
<mdke> would be useful to link more to the help system in general, actually
<mdke> I have the feeling that no one reads it, i've been worrying a lot recently about how we could improve that
<philbull> me too
<philbull> Now that deskbar-applet is installed by default...
<philbull> 'Get help on $search_string'
<mdke> would be good
<philbull> Shouldn't be too difficult
<mdke> you could propose it upstream; I guess it's way too late for this release though
<mdke> so about searching; is tracker integrated with deskbar and nautilus, or are there three separate search mechanisms?
<philbull> This tracker thing has been confusing me.
<philbull> There's a spec up at freedesktop.org
<philbull> This would allow a common API for all of the desktop search tools (beagle, tracker, strigi?)
<philbull> But GNOME seem to have really bought into Beagle
<philbull> Yelp optionally uses Beagle, so does deskbar-applet and nautilus
<mdke> but Ubuntu has bought into tracker?
<philbull> Yep
<philbull> tracker probably has patches for nautilus and deskbar-applet
<philbull> but I'm not so sure about Yelp
<mdke> ok, so nautilus and deskbar use tracker?
<mdke> I wish there was better communication about new features in Ubuntu :)
<philbull> they always add features at what seems like the last minute!
<mdke> yes, well that's ok; we just need to know more about it
<philbull> I normally watch the GNOME release note draft
<philbull> it's a mess this release, though
<philbull> did you notice the new Yelp upload replaces the ubuntu-docs front page?
<mdke> eh?
<mdke> not intentionally, I don't think. What does it look like?
<philbull> In gutsy, Yelp currently has the default GNOME front page, rather than ours
<philbull> Wasn't Don Scorgie making some pretty big changes?
<mdke> perhaps our patch is broken, I'll ask him
<philbull> It only changed in the updates earlier today
<mdke> I'll ask him
<philbull> Ah, I forgot to ask:
<philbull> How are the GNOME docs? Is any more work needed on customising them?
<mdke> I don't really know, I would have thought so
<mdke> I've just started a thread on their list about a good way to deal with the fact that they keep mentioning "Gnome" all the time rather than $distro or "desktop"
<mdke> other than that, just read and see what you think: probably there are a lot of aspects which need work upstream as well as in Ubuntu
<philbull> how is the gnome doc team for contributors?
<mdke> philbull: really bad :)
<mdke> I don't think anyone is really working on docs at the moment
<philbull> ouch
<philbull> we might have to lend a hand...
<mdke> yes
<philbull> after string freeze maybe
<philbull> I'll be going back to uni then though, so won't have as much free time
<mdke> philbull: no free time at uni?
<mdke> what sort of uni is this?
<philbull> he he, physics degree
<philbull> all my 'free time' is filled with maths (or drinking)
<mdke> must be different with physics
<philbull> I can still contribute, its just that I can't do things at crazy hours like I do ATM
<mdke> sure
<philbull> did you take a degree, then?
<mdke> yeah, I miss Uni
<philbull> i'm intending to stay in uni as long as possible
<mdke> heh. a friend of mine did that, a lot of physics
<philbull> however much you do, it's never enough...
<philbull> there's always something to catch you out!
<mdke> heh
<mdke> I got pretty tired of studying though; there is only so much you can put up with
<philbull> what degree did you take?
<philbull> 'night guys
<mdke> damn
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-16
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4245 kubuntu/ (index/C/index.xml internet/C/internet.xml):
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Updated Internet docs to use streamlined 32bit and 64bit install instructions
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: for both Java and Flash.
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: Updated Index file to point the URLs to the correct location
<robotgeek> damn nixternal , always pressuring me
<nixternal> that section is starting to rock now
<nixternal> the Wiki and the Forums have installation for 64bit flash and firefox all wrong
<nixternal> you don't need to install 32bit firefox first or the flash player from adobo
<nixternal> adobe
<robotgeek> nixternal: cool! i will start on wifi either tomorrow or day after, too tired now!
<nixternal> sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree && nspluginwrapper -i /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/libflashplayer.so && sudo ln -s ~/.mozilla/plugins/npwrapper.libflashplayer.so /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so
<nixternal> that easy
<nixternal> hell, there is a wiki page with like many sections that makes the user do way more than that
<robotgeek> heh
<robotgeek> maybe that auto plugin thingie will install it automatically (it did for me on feisty)
<nixternal> not for 64bit systems it won't
<nixternal> or did it?
<nixternal> you are talking the installer that is in Konqueror right?
<nixternal> it never works for me, I don't even get the option anymore
<robotgeek> nixternal: well, i had the 32 bit, and i was really surprised by that plugin installer
<nixternal> I need to fix the java section yet...damn..I don't remember trying java and firefox with 64bit system
<robotgeek> shouldn't java just work now, GPL and everything?
<nixternal> well, the sun-java6-plugin isn't available for 64bit systems
<robotgeek> hmm, weird stuff
<robotgeek> neither for ppc, i guess
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> but we don't care about ppc anymore :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> heh, I just copied over the Konqueror info into the firefox and flash section...oops :)
<robotgeek> ah yes, i keep forgetting that we dont care about ppc. *sigh*
<robotgeek> nixternal: man, you are all about the lazy web :)
<robotgeek> anyways, night
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4246 kubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml: fix 64-bit java and firefox install info - pointed to community docs for the time being
<mpt> Heyyyyy
<mpt> Moin has an "Add spaces to displayed wiki names" option
<mpt> That option should be on for help.ubuntu.com
<mpt> for search bots, at the very least
<mpt> so that pages show up in Web search results
<mdke> mpt: yes that's right
<mdke> mpt: if we haven't got one, can you file a bug?
<mpt> mdke, reported as bug 132879
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132879 in ubuntu-website "help.ubuntu.com/community should have "Add spaces" option on by default" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132879
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4247 ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml: Remove info on installing other DEs (it's being moved), add authors files
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4248 common/authors/ (4 files): Upload new authors files
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4249 common/ (C/contributors.xml authors/richard.johnson.xml): adding the other Xubuntu doc writers - adding my name to the authors dir
<nixternal> didn't know we were still using that directory...I thought everything was being put in the contributors.xml file for some reason
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4250 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: minor update
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4251 kubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): final updates before I package this up
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4252 common/C/contributors.xml: Added names to the correct location (thanks mdke)
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4253 kubuntu/ (19 files in 19 dirs): update get-pot.sh and create new pot files for translations
<sommer> hey all, I was just curious about what editor to use to edit DocBook files?
<sommer> or if it really matters?
<jjesse> it doesn't really matter, most of use an editor that does syntax highlighting to help us out
<jjesse> i've used nano before as well
<sommer> cool
<sommer> thanks jjesse.
<jjesse> np
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4254 kubuntu/khelpdesktop/kubuntu/ (7 files in 2 dirs): prepare desktop and directory files for translations using intltool - README in khelpdesktop/kubuntu/po for further info
<nixternal> sommer: if you use Gnome, gEdit is pretty nice, and if you use KDE, then Kate
<sommer> nixternal: cool...I've been using vim, but console resolution is sometimes an issue.
<nixternal> ya, vim is good as well...I believe it has xml highlighting from the get go
<sommer> yep...it's probably just my console, but the line wrap sometimes looks strange on large paragraphs.
<sommer> at least ones that end with xml tags, and are nested in other tags.
<mdke> evening all
<sommer> afternoon
<nixternal> howdy mdke
<jjesse> hello
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4255 ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml: Applied Milo's patch to fix comma
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4256 ubuntu/add-applications/C/add-applications.xml: Applied Milo's patch to replace emphasis tags, also removed apostrophes
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4257 ubuntu/add-applications/C/add-applications.xml: Changed wording of Synaptic launch instructions (thanks Milo)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-17
<ChrisBM> I'm having a go at cleaning up the "AutomaticallyMountPartitions" article in the wiki, as I have a simple partition setup I don't really know whether this article is really necessary anymore or what version it's applicable to... Ideas anyone?
<ChrisBM> FYI, it states that Ubuntu doesn't automatically mount partitions and suggests that the user download a script from 'http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/scripts/diskmounter' to solve this
<ChrisBM> The script should be executed with root privileges
<ChrisBM> Nevermind, I'll see if I can find a better page to work on.
<ubotu> New bug: #133159 in ubuntu-doc "Serverguide sources.list link broken" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133159
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4258 kubuntu/khelpdesktop/kubuntu/ (8 files in 2 dirs): fixed pot files for desktop and directory files
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4259 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ (7 files in 3 dirs): created about-kubuntu desktop for casper and created translation files
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4260 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ (about-kubuntu.desktop desktop/): moving
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4261 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/desktop/ (6 files in 2 dirs): about-kubuntu potfile for casper
<jjesse> he,llo Admiral_Chicago
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4262 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: updated kubuntu index
<jjesse> nixternal: just a note i'll be reviewing this weekend all the docs :)
<nixternal> groovy
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4263 kubuntu/ (Makefile libs/legalnotice.xml): updates
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4264 kubuntu/Makefile: can't use hotwords
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-18
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4265 kubuntu/getting-help/C/getting-help.xml: booged abstract outside of articleinfo
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4266 kubuntu/ (18 files in 18 dirs): updated kubuntu translation files
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4267 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/desktop/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed icon in about-kubuntu desktop file and regen pot file
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4268 ubuntu/add-applications/C/add-applications.xml: Applied Milo's patch to use more appropriate tags
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4269 ubuntu/accessibility/ (. C/ C/accessibility.xml): Added accessibility topic
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4270 ubuntu/config-desktop/C/config-desktop.xml: Added topics on installing other Ubuntu variant desktops
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4271 ubuntu/files-and-docs/C/ (disks.xml files-and-docs.xml): Remove disks.xml, move content into new hardware.xml, change link in files-and-docs.xml
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4272 ubuntu/hardware/ (. C/ C/hardware.xml): Added new hardware section
<jjesse> nixternal: ping
<jjesse> nixternal: question on kde-menus-C.ent should Adept Manager Manage Packages have the - in it
<jjesse> nixternal: to look like Adept Manager - Manage Pacakges as the menu reads?
<jjesse> nixternal: because there are several missing the "-"
<j1mc> hi all.  when i "make" the xubuntu docs, where does the index.html file get created?  anyone know the default path?
<nixternal> jjesse: ya, make it look like KMenu reads
<nixternal> j1mc: build/xubuntu/$$doc/C/index.html
<nixternal> would you like me to create a Makefile for you guys?
<jjesse> nixternal: cool working on it right now :)
<nixternal> jjesse: I uploaded the latest kubuntu-docs package today, so we are ahead of schedule pretty much
<nixternal> from now until next week, work out some kinks, and release 1 more package before final
<j1mc> thanks, nixternal
<j1mc> let me check that out.
<nixternal> ya, you guys need your own Makefile, it seems you are using the Ubuntu one
<nixternal> then again, the Makefile is only to build out the html, which you guys don't do iirc...Yelp parses xml on the fly and I believe that new doc viewer you guys are working on does the same
<j1mc> nixternal: i'm not sure if the new doc viewer will be ready for gutsy
<j1mc> the docs seem to build ok.
<nixternal> if it isn't, then you guys will stick with Yelp then
<j1mc> no, we would stick with firefox.
<nixternal> and I have no clue about Yelp, and would like to keep it that way :)
<j1mc> firefox displays our docs now
<nixternal> ahh, so you would then need to build out the html then
<j1mc> yes
<nixternal> well, I can work on fixing your makefile if you would like me to
<j1mc> the make file outputted the about-ubuntu file, but not an about-xubuntu file.
<nixternal> do you guys have all of the docs updated in the repo?
<j1mc> that would be awesome if you could.
<nixternal> I haven't seen any Xubuntu patches for a while
<nixternal> and I would prefer not to receive 1 huge patch
<j1mc> i have two patches to submit.  one is a one-liner
<j1mc> but i couldn't get it to validate until tonight.  kevin is here helping out.
<nixternal> ahh, just go ahead and head out into the main directory when you create a patch then, and you can either link me to it, or email it to me
<j1mc> "head out into the main directory"?
<nixternal> Kevin has no clue what he is doing, he not only uses Foresight, but he also uses Gnome :)
<nixternal> trunk/
<j1mc> no, no... another guy who was at chi-ubuntu
<j1mc> he's been using docbook since 99 or something
<nixternal> ahhh, I haven't met him then
<j1mc> he's from weaton
<nixternal> out by me then
<nixternal> so you have someone who has been using docbook for a while...so that means I need to watch out for deprecated tags
<nixternal> and if I see an xreflabel anywhere in there, someone will get hurt :)
<j1mc> ok.  he hasn't really helped me with too much tonight
<j1mc> just helped me fix that error
<nixternal> cool
<jjesse> taking doc book work back to doc channel :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> nobody else is talking in devel anyways :)
<jjesse> there are entities in a section called <!-- open office --> and also entities in a section called <!-- KDE Menu Entries -->
<jjesse> is this done on purpsoe?
<nixternal> I think we are pretty good...maybe a couple of fixes here or there..but we should be done ahead of time
<nixternal> <!-- blah --> isn't an entity..that is a comment
<jjesse> i understand that :)
<nixternal> oh
* jjesse isn't totally stupid
<nixternal> you mean under the comments
<nixternal> ya, if I could read correctly then I would have made you look totally stupid :)  instead I look totally stupid :)
<jjesse> there is an entity called menuoooimpress and menuooop
<jjesse> for impress
<jjesse> same for all of the open office products
<nixternal> get rid of the bigger one
<jjesse> will that break docs?
<nixternal> or the menuooop since that makes no sense
<nixternal> grep menu office.xml
<nixternal> see what it is using
<jjesse> menuoop follows the ppater for menuooow for writer, menuoooc for calc, etc
<nixternal> ppater? hahah
<jjesse> patern :)
<nixternal> I had to look at that a couple of times
<jjesse> must be the bailieys and the coffee kicking in
<nixternal> haha, nice
<nixternal> but none of those are used in the office.xml
<jjesse> menuooimpress is
<nixternal> ya, but the menuoop and such aren't
<jjesse> ok deleting those
<nixternal> none of the menuooo ones are used in any doc
<jjesse> removed them
<nixternal> you can delete them, and then run the validate-all.sh script in the kubuntu directory
<jjesse> wiill do
<jjesse> danng tigers are losing to the yankees
<nixternal> teeheeehheee
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4273 kubuntu/libs/kde-menus-C.ent: lotzs of changes to make the entites reflect the k menu...
<nixternal> you go!
<jjesse> thanks
<jjesse> on to the next doc
<jjesse> add-applications.xml
<nixternal> go go go
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4274 kubuntu/add-applications/C/add-applications.xml: minor change -- still reading this doc, but its bed time
<nixternal> haha
<posingaspopular> hey all, im trying to find 'desktop guide' documentation for edgy online. can anyone help me find a link?
<posingaspopular> i checked out the latest docs in SVN tonight, but when i do cd ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/desktopguide.xml, i can't find anything. in fact i cant find anything about the desktop guide after ubuntu-docs/ubuntu for the desktop guide
<robotgeek> posingaspopular: for edgy?
<posingaspopular> yes please robotgeek
<robotgeek> posingaspopular: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/edgy/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/
<posingaspopular> robotgeek: thanks. how can i check these out in subversion?
<robotgeek> posingaspopular: it was probably removed for feisty
<posingaspopular> yea it was, because i couldn't find it for fesity
<posingaspopular> and i did a checkout today and couldn't find anything
<robotgeek> posingaspopular: create directory, "svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/edgy/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/"
<robotgeek> posingaspopular: however, please donot commit to this branch (if you have commit rights)
<posingaspopular> robotgeek: im kind of bad at command line. mkdir svn co https:// etc?
<posingaspopular> i don't have commit rights, either way
<robotgeek> posingaspopular: no, create a location where you want do download it.
<posingaspopular> ......
<robotgeek> say, mkdir ~/ubuntu-doc
<robotgeek> cd ubuntu-doc
<robotgeek> svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/edgy/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4275 ubuntu/ (hardware/C/hardware.xml libs/gnome-menus-C.ent): Added power management and input device sections to hardware topic
#ubuntu-doc 2007-08-19
<sommer> 6\
<jjesse> nixternal: that index for khelpcenter rocks
<jjesse> friggen awesome dude
<jjesse> nixternal: bug #133415
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133415 in kubuntu-docs "[Gutsy]  Missing harddrives.xml" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133415
<ubotu> New bug: #133415 in kubuntu-docs (main) "[Gutsy]  Missing harddrives.xml" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133415
<jjesse> man ubutu you are slow tonight, must be because you are running vista
<jjesse> nixternal: bug #133418
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133418 in kubuntu-docs "[Gutsy]  Missing links for top networking questions" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133418
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> ya, missing links mean a section is incomplete
<jjesse> evening btw :)
<nixternal> evening to you as well
<jjesse> just doing doc review
<jjesse> btw i love the index
<jjesse> it is freakin awesome
<jjesse> you rock hard core
<jjesse> seriously dude
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4276 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: closes LP: 133415
<nixternal> ahh, looks like a typo by me on the harddrives thing
<nixternal> should be hardware.html :)
<jjesse> do you want me to creat bugs for each problem i find?
<nixternal> that or just fix them :)
<jjesse> looking at how index is created
<jjesse> is index.xml?
<nixternal> kubuntu/index/C/index.xml
<nixternal> it is a nasty formaltable
<nixternal> but it works
<nixternal> as long as the table stuff isn't messed with, it is fine...that table stuff is a pita
<jjesse> hmm should i then let you deal with it?
<nixternal> ya, the wifi and the dial-up sections are incomplete currently
<jjesse> bittorrent.html?
<nixternal> what about that?
<jjesse> missing in the link "no documentation available for /kubuntu/internet/bittorrent.html
<nixternal> where are you getting that from?
<nixternal> should be torrent.html
<jjesse> index
<jjesse> "how do i download torrent files?"
<nixternal> argh
<jjesse> sorry :)
<ubotu> New bug: #133418 in kubuntu-docs (main) "[Gutsy]  Missing links for top networking questions" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133418
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4277 kubuntu/index/C/index.xml: fixed :)
<nixternal> why be sorry, you are finding my typos
<nixternal> I think what I did, it was originally bittorrent.html, but I went through and shrunk some of the id="" things
<nixternal> those are easy fixes in the index file...so if you feel like editing them, go ahead
<jjesse> ok hold on dog issues
<nixternal> it isn't like we can't go back if it accidentally gets broken :)
<nixternal> hahaha
<jjesse> its nice and cool here so we have the windows open and the dog is hearing animals
<jjesse> so if i find a broken link it is all in index.xml then?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> down in the bottom portion
<nixternal> I have documented that index.xml file pretty good, so it should be easy for you to edit
<jjesse> ok reading it
<jjesse> so something like tips-to-manage-files.html#unrar should really read files-and-docs.html#unrar?
* jjesse is trying to understand how these docs work
<nixternal> ahh, I built the docs locally so I could get the correct links
<nixternal> and then just navigated to them, or copied the link from the Table of Contents link to the topic
<jjesse> ok i understand
<jjesse> ok heading to bed because wife is there already
<jjesse> good news is all the rest of the links work that i've tried (besides How do I extract RAR files)
<nixternal> got it...thanks for that, and g'nite!
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4278 ubuntu/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Changed PhotoPrint instructions, as it now has a .desktop file
<CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4279 ubuntu/ (desktop-effects/C/desktop-effects.xml libs/gnome-menus-C.ent): Updated desktop-effects instructions to use new CompizConfig Settings Manager
<tritoch> hello
<tritoch> when i installed ubuntu a year ago i relied heavily on the ubuntuguide.org website
<tritoch> when i try to access it now i'm unable to - further, i can't load the google OR archive.org cache
<tritoch> wondering if anyone knows of mirrors or has a backup
<tritoch> it's unofficial so i understand it's not really supported here
<tritoch> well now i'm ticked off - both xubuntuguide.org and kubuntuguide.org are working
<tritoch> ahh found a cache: http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:oCNVrC8mgQ8J:ubuntuguide.org/+ubuntuguide&hl=en&client=firefox-a&strip=1 - don't know why the one i tried on google wasnt working but this one appears to be formatting stripped, so who knows
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-12
<jjesse> why do i always mess up when i check out the branch for ubuntu and kubuntu docs?
<jjesse> what should i be doing instead of bzr checout?
<sommer> jjesse: what I've been doing is bzr branch, edit, bzr commit then bzr push... if someone else has performed an edit since my last commit and push I do a bzr pull to the get the latest
<jjesse> sommer: i'm getting some funky bzr error when i go to check out
<jjesse> on the bzr checkout lp:ubuntu-doc
<jjesse> initial checkout
<sommer> jjesse: try bzr branch lp:ubuntu-doc
<sommer> jjesse: also try bzr launchpad-login your_lp_username
<jjesse> already didd i don't have any problems w/ any other checkouts just the ubutnu-docs
<sommer> what's the exact error?
<jjesse> hold on just a second
<jjesse> sommer: pastebin.ubuntu.com/36701
<sommer> whoa, never seen that... did you recently update your ssh-key and not update lp?
<jjesse> yes i did update my ssh key and yes i did up lp
<sommer> jjesse: you might try creating a "Docs" dir and do a bzr branch lp:ubuntu-docs ... maybe it's something with that dir?
<jjesse> sure will try
<jjesse> same error
<jjesse> tried as well under /home/jjesse
<sommer> mmm... testing
<sommer> it just worked fine for me... I'm running bzr-1.3.1-1ubuntu0.1
<sommer> on hardy
<jjesse> bzr 1.5 on kubuntu intrepid
<sommer> ah... there may be an issue with that version and the version of lp... you might try asking in #bzr, they may know more
<jjesse> sommer: thanks
<sommer> jjesse: np, sorry I couldn't help more :)
<sommer> I'll try the check out from an intrepid vm
<jjesse> np i thought there was a different way of checking out the docs repo as i got once before
<sommer> jjesse: I just tried bzr-1.5-1 on intrepid and it worked
<jjesse> sommer: must be something on my end
<nixternal> jjesse: it is working for me it looks
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> wow, that was fast
<jjesse> that's a bummer
<jjesse> don't know what i'm doing wrong
<nixternal> jjesse_: I am getting ready to do a huge kubuntu commit on docs
<jjesse_> wahoo
<nixternal> big restructuring effort, everything validates, and will get it to build shortly
<jjesse_> awesome
<jjesse_> i need to figure out my bzr issue
<nixternal> heh, got into a doc mood while watching the olympics
<nixternal> you try #bzr or whatever it is
<jjesse_> yeah? nice
<jjesse_> i did but no one responded and i got busy again w/ werk
<nixternal> I think I have had that problem in the past, but I cannot remember what the fix was
<jjesse_> i have had it as well
<nixternal> doing a 'validate_all' right now to make sure everything is good
<nixternal> I restructured the stuff just like you would see a "proper" software package
<nixternal> everything will be under docs
<jjesse_> cool
<nixternal> I was going to go with the ubuntu-doc setup, but it was kind of messy for my tastes :)
<jjesse_> maybe the change will rub off on ubuntu-docs then :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> damn, I hope this hurries up
<nixternal> I may commit tonight w/o getting the builds working because my battery is about dead and it is getting late
<jjesse_> yeah it is getting close to bedtime
<nixternal> everything is validating...just needed to make changes since I moved everything into 1 libs directory
<nixternal> that will need some cleaning up too because there is quite a bit that we do not use
<jjesse_> figured
<nixternal> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu-intrepid/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
<nixternal> great
<jjesse_> i kept keeting errrors on edubutnut-core-doc as well
<nixternal> heh, might help if I had the right pub key maybe
<jjesse_> lol
<jjesse_> xthat alwyas helps
<jjesse_> i can't  figure this thing out for work
<jjesse_> this sucks
<jjesse_> but it is a beta product
<nixternal> fixed
<nixternal> alrighty, getting ready to shutdown here and call it a night
<nixternal> I will try and work on some more docs this week
<jjesse_> cool see you l8ter
<nixternal> g'nite
<jjesse_> aesome so will i
<mdke> jjesse_: it's because your repository is incompatible with the type of branch we use on ubuntu-doc
<mdke> jjesse_: if you download it into a new folder which isn't a shared repository, it should work
<mdke> jjesse_: see http://bazaar-vcs.org/SharedRepositoryTutorial for more info about shared repositories
<mdke> nixternal: you can't commit over http... you need to use bzr+ssh or sftp
<mdke> nixternal: ah, good work on the recent commit. The next step might be to move everything in "docs" into the top level of the tree ;)
<brousc1> Arg! How do I create a blockquote on the wiki? This does not help: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HelpOnMoinWikiSyntax?action=show&redirect=SyntaxReference#Blockquotes%20and%20Indentations
<brousc1> nevermind, i got it. the {{{ and }}} have to be on their own line
<brousc1> heh, my quickbooks server on linux post in the intuit forums has the second most views of any post
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-13
<sommer> mdke: hello, just wanted to say that the new layout look great :)
<sommer> mdke: also, is the doc.u.c/~mdke going to be up for a while?
<sommer> mdke: I was thinking about posting a serverteam blog requesting reviews, and wanted to double check
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-14
<sebastean> hi
<sebastean> is the content in the help wiki licensed under an open license?
<Old_Soldier> the community wiki is CC-BYSA 2.5
<Old_Soldier> or possibly 3.0 now
<Old_Soldier> its been said that help.ubuntu.com is open source but its a derivative work of the ubuntu documentation which is also CC-BYSA 2.5 (soon to be 3.0)
<Old_Soldier> i'm no expert sebastean but thats my take on it.
<sebastean> Old_Soldier: oki thanks, I will look up what BYSA stands for ;)
<Old_Soldier> its creatic commons share alike (with attribution)
<Old_Soldier> *creative
<sebastean> ahh
<sebastean> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/
<sebastean> Old_Soldier: do you know have I should attribute?
<sebastean> is there information about this in the wiki? I couldn't find it..
<Old_Soldier> i'm not 100% certain. I would suspect that an acknowledgement or link would be good enough.
<Old_Soldier> <- I'm not an authority on the subject, just a new member of the syudents team
<sebastean> ok
<sebastean> Old_Soldier: thank you for your help, got to go..
<Old_Soldier> grrr.
<seisen> ok..........
<seisen> what was that for
<Old_Soldier> are there any admins for the mailing list here?
<cody-somerville> yes
<Old_Soldier> cool, I changed my email address and confirmed it, but now my replys are being held in moderation
<Old_Soldier> *replies
<Old_Soldier> should i just quit and rejoin using my ubuntu.com address?
<cody-somerville> Just login
<cody-somerville> and update
<Old_Soldier> ok cody-somerville  i logged in and updated again. i had to login using my new email address so i dont understand why i got put in moderation
 * Old_Soldier shrugs. hopefully it stuck this time
<cody-somerville> Did you actually send it using your new address? ;]
<Old_Soldier> lol now i feel like the idiot- digging in my sent mail shows i sent under the old address, pebkac error on this end
<Old_Soldier> i'll cancel the post request
 * Old_Soldier hangs his head in shame and slinks to the corner
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-15
<mdke> sommer: yes, it's not going away as far as I know
<agy> I will be performing maintenance on wiki.ubuntu.com in 20 minutes. During this time the wiki will be placed in read-only mode. Please save your edits before this time. The maintenance is expected to last 15 minutes.
<Old_Soldier> thx agy
<agy> Starting the wiki.ubuntu.com maintenance.
<agy> Maintenance on wiki.ubuntu.com has been successfully completed.
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-16
<squires1993> hi
#ubuntu-doc 2008-08-17
<mdke> morning all
<brousch> kel?
<Alan_M> hey guys, i requested to join ubuntu-doc-students a while back...its been quite some time now, when will my request be acted on so i can get a mentor and be on my way in the project?
<Alan_M> i sent in my "hello doc team" letter a LONG time ago.
<mdke> Alan_M: I'll take a look. What type of documentation are you interested in contributing to? You don't need a mentor to get started, just ask any questions you have here or on the mailing list
<mdke> Alan_M: I've added you to the Launchpad group
<Alan_M> im interested in doing whatever is needed...im currently expanding my knowledge on the wiki and how to create pages through it.
<Alan_M> sorry..i was helping a user with a bug in the #ubuntu-bugs room
<Alan_M> i would like to learn how to edit system documentation honestly, but when i went to download docbooks it gave me some errors.....
<mdke> Alan_M: if you show us what the error was, probably we can help
<Alan_M> meh i uninstalled it, i could reinstall it, it would take me a little while though mdke
<mdke> Alan_M: you mean you uninstalled bzr?
<Alan_M> Is Docbooks not the tool you use to edit system documentation?
<mdke> docbook is the name for the programming language used to write the system documentation, a bit like html
<mdke> it's a very simple language which uses tags like html does
<mdke> but to get our documents, you need to use "bzr" which is a revision control program. the instructions are https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<mdke> when you have got them, you can edit them with any text editor, like gedit (the Gnome text editor)
<Alan_M> well, i guess i screwed up but i actually have bzr, so i guess im good to go :)
 * Alan_M just removes docbook
<Alan_M> yes im familiar with bzr, i work on another project with it :)
<mdke> you don't need the docbook package necessarily to edit the documents, but it doesn't do any harm to have it around
<Alan_M> just a lot of wasted space right?
<Alan_M> heh
<mdke> about 3MB
<Alan_M> eh, not too bad i guess
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-10
<dhillon-v10> hi everyone
<dhillon-v10> hi everyone
<dhillon-v10> hi everyone
<dhillon-v10> how is everyone doing
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-12
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: hi
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: :)
<Rocket2DMn> hi dhillon-v10
<Rocket2DMn> im in a meeting right now, so i cant really chat
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: sorry
<Rocket2DMn> welcome back though
<dhillon-v10> jpds: hi
<dhillon-v10> jpds: how are you?
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Hi
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-13
<heinonen> Anyone, the "Events" link on front page of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ points to invalid resource http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event. What would be the right channel to report this so somebody with edit rights can fix the link?
<nhandler> I went ahead and updated the Events link that heinonen was talking about to point to the Fridge calendar
<dhillon-v10> hi everyone
<starcraftman> lo' dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: I remember you, how are you?
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: fine, nothing too special atm, looking round forums for threads to post in. Also notebook window shopping.
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: you? Found something to pitch in with in documentation?
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: yah phillbull send me an email and also Rocket2DMn regarding a new type of documentation format
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: good good, well read up and get aquainted. I'm mostly a wiki editor, if you've any questions in that area I'm usually around... otherwise just pick something your interested and edit or add new content. :)
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: do you know about Mallard
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: nope, that's system documentation stuff. Not my area atm, I'll probably get into it sometime though.
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: thnaks
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: no problem. If you've questions, probably best to send questions to the doc team mail list. Someone knowledgeable sure to answer there.
<shaunm> dhillon-v10: I know a thing or two about mallard
<dhillon-v10> shaunm: sorry  for the late response but go ahead
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-14
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: how are you?
<Rocket2DMn> hi dhillon-v10
<Rocket2DMn> im well, thank you, how are you?
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: good
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I got an email from phillbull regarding Mallard, so can how can I start working with it
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, i haven't a clue about Mallard, sorry
<Rocket2DMn> what is that you want to do with it?
<dhillon-v10> "We're also looking for writers to work on rewriting the GNOME documentation using a new format called Mallard [2]. This is going to be an extremely big job, but would be a great way to learn about technical writing. "
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: that's what I got from phillbull
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, that sounds like work that would be done upstream at Gnome, not in Ubuntu yet
<Rocket2DMn> There was discussion at the last team meeting about converting our ubuntu-docs stuff to Mallard to align with Gnome, but not yet
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: well that was the email I got and how can i join the meetings here...
<Rocket2DMn> Meetings here will be announced on the mailing list
<Rocket2DMn> I don't know anything about Gnome operations upstream though
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I am subscribed to the mailing list but I don't get any email regarding meetings, I check them all
<Rocket2DMn> well we don't have meetings very often, so it's not surprising that you haven't seen any meeting announcements
<Rocket2DMn> if you're on the mailing list, you'll see any discussion about planning the next meeting when it comes time
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Alright, so I am working on modifying wikis and adding some new pages and such, any thing else you would have me do...
<Rocket2DMn> Lol, I'm not in charge here dhillon-v10 :)
<Rocket2DMn> you can email the list to ask for more suggestions if you want
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Oh, I thought you were, nevermind
<dhillon-v10> :)
<Rocket2DMn> no, mdke is the doc-team lead
<Rocket2DMn> However, if you want wiki work, have a look at the Tag page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<Rocket2DMn> anything tagged for Content Cleanup, Style Cleanup, or Expansion need work
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I guess I should say hi to him too...  :)
<Rocket2DMn> heh, indeed
<dhillon-v10> mdke: hi, how are you?
<Rocket2DMn> he is marked as away right now, so it's unlikely he'll respond, but if you stay signed on, he will respond to any notes you leave for him
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: how do you find that out????
<Rocket2DMn> His name is gray on the user list
<Rocket2DMn> I'm using Xchat, if you're using something else, you may have to check somewhere else
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: oh I use pidgin, it comes with ubuntu so ...
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I will talk to you later, thanks and bye
<Rocket2DMn> see ya
<mdke> dhillon-v10: hi, what can I do for you?
<dhillon-v10> mdke: sorry to make you wait, just 2 mins..  thanks
<mdke> I am on and off irc myself
<mdke> so no probl
<Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , what would you like to do with this page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiCleanupProposal
<mdke> hmm
<Rocket2DMn> it's rather old
<mdke> I'd probably say let's nuke it and keep working on the latest proposal from Marc and Andrew
<Rocket2DMn> alright
<Rocket2DMn> also, what about pages like this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/PageDiscussion
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure if we want to keep PageDiscussion pages or not.  Either way, there are many with lots of old content
<mdke> I'd say not, they aren't helpful for discussing - i much prefer the mailing list
<Rocket2DMn> you want to delete all PageDiscussion pages?
<dhillon-v10> mdke: Alright so I am back, I wanted to know about mallard
<mdke> I wouldn't say all, because they might have useful material in them. if so I think we should think about how to keep them
<mdke> but those without useful material, yes
<mdke> dhillon-v10: ok. Are you broadly familiar with the difference between Ubuntu and Gnome?
<mdke> (not sure what your level of experience is with the Ubuntu ecosystem)
<dhillon-v10> mdke: yah well gnome is the desktop environment but ubuntu is the whole operating system
<mdke> right
<mdke> the Gnome project has its own documentation team
<dhillon-v10> mdke: alright
<Rocket2DMn> sounds good mdke , i know there are some with useful content. or that direct users in how to update some pages.  I'll put PageDiscussions on my radar and delete those that aren't helpful.
<mdke> they are currently working on a rehash of their documentation to make it easier for distributions like Ubuntu to use it
<dhillon-v10> mdke: Can I help with that?????
<mdke> part of that rehash is a new document language which they will use to write their documents in
<mdke> it's called Mallard
<dhillon-v10> mdke: you are smart :)
<mdke> similar to html, if you are familiar with that
<dhillon-v10> mdke: I am a programmer, working with computer vision
<mdke> dhillon-v10: I haven't said anything smart so far ;)
<Rocket2DMn> mdke - delete the two pages I linked you to?  I only ask b/c they are doc-team pages.
<mdke> you can definitely help contribute to the Gnome documentation team, if you like
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, I think so (if you agree)
<mdke> dhillon-v10: the Gnome documentation team has its own mailing list and irc channel so the first step is to join those
<dhillon-v10> mdke: well for the most part computer vision is my area of work, is there anything other than wikis that needs to be worked upon
<dhillon-v10> mdke: I know that and I have joined it
<Rocket2DMn> i do agree mdke , but i'm pretty liberal with the delete button, so i just wanted to make sure :)
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: cool
<mdke> dhillon-v10: what do you mean by computer vision?
<dhillon-v10> mdke: It is the art of making computers see what we humans do using solid mathematics
<mdke> ok
<mdke> if you'd like to contribute to Gnome documentation, I'd say just contact the mailing list and ask how you can help
<mdke> if you'd like to contribute to Ubuntu documentation, we'd love that too :)
<dhillon-v10> mdke: I am working on some wikis is there anything else
<mdke> the thing to do there is to visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam and read on :)
<mdke> there should be plenty of information there about how to find things to work on, but feel free to ask if you have any other questions
<dhillon-v10> mdke: I have been guided by Rocket2DMn and I have read some pages there as well
<mdke> great
<dhillon-v10> mdke: so what should I do now?
<mdke> dhillon-v10: that's kinda up to you, it depends on what you are interested in
<dhillon-v10> mdke: What about system documentation
<mdke> yes, plenty to do there
<mdke> so
<mdke> there is likely to be plenty to do in updating the documentation to the new features in karmic
<mdke> for example, the move to empathy as an irc client, and I'm sure there are plenty of other user visible changes
<mdke> another thing we are missing is documentation for connecting to bluetooth devices, if you have had any experience with that on Ubuntu
<dhillon-v10> mdke: what should I do to get to those pages and write out what I can
<mdke> you'll need to read the system documentation pages quite carefully, those will tell you how things work and where to get copies of the documents
<mdke> there is no substitute for reading those pages, but it's quite easy to pick up
<mdke> I'm referring to the wiki pages at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation
<dhillon-v10> mdke: I had a look at those pages before but I don't see a ubuntu karamic branch
<mdke> where?
<dhillon-v10> mdke: sorry I wasn't specific enough:  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc-project
<mdke> yeah, that's a bit confusing actually
<mdke> it's here - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-karmic
<mdke> I'll see if I can clarify the page, unfortunately Launchpad is a bit unhelpful about how it presents the branches
<dhillon-v10> mdke: Please don't get me wrong but are you sure that's the right page...
<mdke> yes
<dhillon-v10> mdke: alright I will get the branch and then how do i proceed
<mdke> what do you want to do?
<dhillon-v10> mdke: Update the documentation for various packages
<mdke> you need to identify some material that needs to be changed, change it, and then submit a patch as described in the Editing, Checking and Submitting pages on the wiki
<dhillon-v10> mdke: Oh that was simpler than I thought
<dhillon-v10> :)
<mdke> see how you go
<dhillon-v10> mdke: do you recommed this work to be done under a virtual machine or not
<mdke> editing the documentation doesn't have to be at all
<mdke> but trying karmic out is probably best done in a virtual machine
<dhillon-v10> mdke: alright thanks and nice talking to you
<mdke> dhillon-v10: same, catch you soon
<dhillon-v10> bye
 * mdke notices that doc.ubuntu.com is still working on jaunty
<mdke> *cough*
<Rocket2DMn> man every time I go to clean up stuff on the wiki, I find another set of things that need to be done
<Rocket2DMn> lol
<mdke> hah
<mdke> you're doing awesome work on the wiki
<mdke> thanks for that
<Rocket2DMn> sure thing, i would just like to see some order on the wiki.  I think it would be a lot more useful that way
<Rocket2DMn> requires a lot of pruning and constant upkeep
 * mdke nods
<Rocket2DMn> the summer of documentation has been going well, people are putting out some great work - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
<mdke> nice :)
<mdke> we should have a page like that for the whole team, do you think it would work?
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure if it would work, I think it's been tried before, hasn't it?
<mdke> it's a damn site better than DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks
<Rocket2DMn> I basically took pages that were Tagged or had older Categories - ones I thought BT members should be able to handle, and just listed them for covenience
<mdke> it looks like it's been a great success
<Rocket2DMn> yes, I get quite a few requests for ideas about "what should i work on next", i havent always been able to keep up
 * mdke nods
<mdke> the age old problem really
<Rocket2DMn> however, directing users to the doc-team pages is best.  Members can get their hands dirty with stuff I start them off with, then are more comfortable and can jump further into the doc team
<Rocket2DMn> at that point they can find their own way
<Rocket2DMn> that's the whole point really
<mdke> right but we need to keep the docteam pages updated with current tasks
<mdke> never easy
<mdke> I like the list you've done there
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, it's tough to stay on top of it.  When I finish some other tasks I have on my list, I'll see if I can come up with a proposal for a similar method for the whole doc-team.
<mdke> I guess the tag system is the way forward
<mdke> I don't know whether that is effectively used or not, but it should work in theory
<Rocket2DMn> the biggest problem I've had with the tag system is that when you want to see the list, it can only show 10 per page
<Rocket2DMn> perhaps there is a simple way around that which I haven't discovered.  regardless, it's not user friendly in that sense
<mdke> I wonder if we can fix that
<mdke> surely we can fix it
<Rocket2DMn> hopefully it's as simple as adding a parameter to the URL
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: we could create pages like this one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag/Unsupported/List
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, that is brilliant, why didn't I think of that!
<mdke> :)
<Rocket2DMn> the only thing better would be to have the ability to separate the listings by letter, not sure if the search function can produce output that complex though
<Rocket2DMn> either way, that is much more user friendly since it is all in one place
<mdke> not as far as i know, but feel free to look into it :)
<Rocket2DMn> the TitleIndex page does it, perhaps there is a way to harness it's capability in search queries
<mdke> possibly
<mdke> if you fancy creating a new more of those pages and linking to them on the "Tag" page, go ahead. Otherwise I'll try and do it over the weekend
<mdke> bed for now
<Rocket2DMn> I'll put it on my radar, but you can go ahead and do it, you'll probably get to it first
<mdke> cool, will do
<mdke> cya
<Rocket2DMn> alright, good night
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-15
<sianis> hi
<sianis> can somebody setup bzr translation export of ubuntu docs?
<sianis> adiroiban: could you do it?
<mdke> sianis: what do you want to do?
<sianis> mdke: a bzr branch where I can reach trasnlations of the ubuntu documentation
<sianis> http://blog.launchpad.net/general/exporting-translations-to-a-bazaar-branch
<mdke> sianis: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation ?
<mdke> I don't think automatic translation export works for translations of packages
<mdke> it only works for projects
<sianis> mdke: :(
<sianis> will this thing change?
<mdke> the problem is that we host our branches in a different place to where we do the translations
<mdke> we host them in projects, and do the translations in the package
<mdke> it might change in the future, but it's not imminent, I don't think
<mdke> I might talk to the Rosetta developers about it
<mdke> they will probably say that we should be using projects for translations and not packages
<sianis> :)
<mdke> adiroiban, Gwaihir - let me know if you have any thoughts about this
<Gwaihir> mdke: having the export feature with docs translations would be cool, but don't know if it's going to work as we would like to
<Gwaihir> I think it will export the files in one single directory, where we need locale specific directory
<Gwaihir> so... there's always some manual work to do...
<mdke> Gwaihir: we keep the files in a single directory too ($doc/po)
<mdke> Gwaihir: having said that, it might be less convenient for translators to have the translations away from other Ubuntu packages
<Gwaihir> I thought they were separate directory... anyway, it's better to have them under Ubuntu from a translators perspective
<mdke> Gwaihir: that's what I'm thinking
<lukjad007> Where do I find the syntax so that you can click a link in the wiki and the program installs from the repos?
 * lukjad007 was reading it earlier, but cannot find it now
<starcraftman> lukjad007: ah, that's apt url stuff I think. See here. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptUrl
<lukjad007> Thanks!
<starcraftman> lukjad007: good reminder, I should update my pages to use that...
<lukjad007> starcraftman Yeah. I'm updating a page to use that, but couldn't find it. :P
<mdke> starcraftman, lukjad007 - have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/WritingGuide for the recommended use of apturl on the help wiki
<starcraftman> mdke: ah, thanks. I've read those pages, must have simply missed it.
 * Rocket2DMn had no idea that page existed
<starcraftman> Hehehe
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, i implemented the List pages for Tags last night
<Rocket2DMn> also blew away all but a handful of PageDiscussions
<Rocket2DMn> most of them had almost nothing on them
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, I saw that, nice job
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, one that i didnt delete was this, which marc put together some time ago - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Categories/PageDiscussion
<Rocket2DMn> wasnt sure if there was stuff on there we wanted to keep, or move, or discuss further
<mdke> seems to pretty much overlap with the work he is doing at the moment
<mdke> I'd maybe ask him whether he can merge it with that, or delete it
<mdke> gtg for now
<Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks, see ya
<lukjad007> mdke Thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2009-08-16
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, I think we have some overlap in the use of the ContentCleanup and StyleCleanup tags.
<Rocket2DMn> I think "Pages with confusing or inadequate structure. " and "Pages which are 'over-structured' (i.e. too many short sections) " belong under StyleCleanup
<Rocket2DMn> actually the latter is already stated in different words under StyleCleanup
<Rocket2DMn> and we should add to ContentCleanup, something like "Pages with material that is not up-to-date or valid with the latest Ubuntu release"
<Rocket2DMn> not that it is unsupported, but just doesn't apply to the latest version (a bit confusing to explain clearly)
<lukjad007> Rocket2DMn So, the cleanup tags need a cleanup?
<Rocket2DMn> lukjad007, yup :)
<lukjad007> Haha!
<Rocket2DMn> the tag has been getting used as i explained, it's just not worded so on the page
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Hi
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: hi how are you?
<Rocket2DMn> good evening dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: how are you
<Rocket2DMn> doin well thanks, and you?
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: not bad actually
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I have a question, as usual :)
<Rocket2DMn> lol, ok
<starcraftman> lo' dhillon-v10, sorry was out a bit, lo to you too Rocket2DMn
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Alright so I was looking in my system guide (the one that came installed on my system) and in the programming section, I found that one of the links that was apt:gambas wasn't working there was a dialogue box saying package not found and when I do that in synaptic it works, is that a possible bug
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: how are you
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, yes, that is a bug.  However, recent discussion on the mailing list and a bug report opened by Phil Bull tells us that we are probably going to remove the programming section from the system docs
<Rocket2DMn> it looks like that gambas package only exists in the Dapper repositories
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: It isn't the only package and can you tell me why are we removing the programming section
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: had better days, was just offline for an hour and a bit after a problem during update. Fixed up, now back to well wiki work. :)
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, you can report that as a bug and they system docs devs will figure out how to proceed
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, first things first - given that the programming section is still there, i would report any problems you find with it
<starcraftman> dhillon-v10: correction, day was fine, was just the after supper that annoyed me.
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Alright if you say so
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: LOL
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, as per your question about why it's being removed, I think the consensus was that it isnt material appropriate for normal desktop systems
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: ah smart
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, i think it is a good call
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/414287  done
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 414287 in ubuntu-docs "links broken in help and support section" [Undecided,New]
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: who is ubot4
<dhillon-v10> j1mc: how are you?
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, that is a bot
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: okay
<Rocket2DMn> lol, not a very detailed bug report dhillon-v10 , but it will do
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I want to know more about solving bugs that I get in my mail
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I seem to be helpless for other people who need me
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix I read that but not helping
<Rocket2DMn> what bugs do you get in your mail?
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Mostly regarding sound and kernel problems
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I know programming but in this case I can't do anything
<Rocket2DMn> fixing bugs like that is complicated, you need to work upstream with the linux kernel developers and audio/soundserver developers (like PulseAudio)
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Please elaborate
<Rocket2DMn> I don't have most of those answers dhillon-v10 , i dont develop for them
<Rocket2DMn> you would need to talk to the kernel team and audio team folks
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: should I try google to look for them
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, yeah, they should have pages on wiki.ubuntu.com
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: sorry i gotta go, talk to you later and thanks
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: I'm not a bot. :)
<j1mc> I work on Xubuntu docs
<j1mc> Jim C.  :)
<starcraftman> lo' there j1mc, kinda quiet night, guess rocket's busy. Though last time I said his name he magically appeared....
 * starcraftman braces self for surprise.
<j1mc> :)
<starcraftman> I guess it only works once a day.
<j1mc> mebbe
<j1mc> i just think it's funny that he thinks i'm a bot
<Rocket2DMn> lol j1mc , he asked about ubot4 , i'm the only other bot here
<Rocket2DMn> lol starcraftman , i havent failed you yet today :)
<starcraftman> YES! I got the touch :)
<Rocket2DMn> twice before i logged into irc on cue :)
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i see now... that's funny.
<Rocket2DMn> what an awesome bug - bug 414287
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 414287 in ubuntu-docs "links broken in help and support section" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414287
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Hi, how are you
#ubuntu-doc 2010-08-16
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: Hello
<ChrisWoollard> How's it going?
<godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard
<godbyk> Not too bad.
<ChrisWoollard> Who is Christophe Pfeiffer?
<godbyk> No clue.
<godbyk> I like the change he made, but he's using a newer version of csquotes than I am.  And my version doesn't have the polyglossia option yet, so I had to revert his change.
<ChrisWoollard> Just wondered. He is in our commit log for a few minutes ago
<godbyk> Yeah, I saw that. I don't recognize the name.
<dutchie> i thought the changes jenkins made would stop randoms from fiddling
<ChrisWoollard> He did some kind of merge that changed a bucket load of stuff
<godbyk> dutchie: He didn't change the bzr commit access -- only translation stuff, I think.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Well, he apparently committed stuff and then had to merge in all the changes we'd made since he'd started his work.  So the big commit is just re-applying the changes we'd made since.
<ChrisWoollard> I hope there are none of those conflicts
<godbyk> I hope so, too.
<ChrisWoollard> I'll grep for them
<godbyk> 'kay.
<ChrisWoollard> looks okay
#ubuntu-doc 2010-08-18
<charlie-tca> mdke: got a minute?
<charlie-tca> mdke: apparently the branch added for Xubuntu-docs is bringing in the kubuntu documentation. Any way to get that changed to bring in ubuntu or the old xubuntu docs?
<charlie-tca> mdke: never mind, new guy looking at docs
<j1mc-android> charlie-tca: i will see if i can find some time to help. i am afraid im pretty swamped lately, though.
<charlie-tca> That would be great! I have KE1HA trying to start on them, but he is very new at it in bazaar and could use some advice if you get a chance.
<j1mc-android> sure. do u lnow their email?
<charlie-tca> mailto:ke1ha@yahoo.com
<charlie-tca> well, anyway, you know what I meant
<j1mc-android> :-)
<charlie-tca> Thank you, j1mc-android
<j1mc-android> yw
<j1mc-android> thank YOU, charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<charlie-tca> We just keep trying
<KE1HA> j1mc-android, I'm ok at the moment, have the branch pulled, just need to few pointers on revisions and c/in  c/out options and process, that would be vry helpfull.
<mdke> charlie-tca: not sure I follow the question - have you resolved now?
<charlie-tca> mdke: yes, thanks. Got it straightened out
<mdke> cool
<charlie-tca> I am starting KE1HA on Xubuntu docs. but I probably need help with it...
<mdke> happy to help if I can
<charlie-tca> Thanks. We will come crawling
<charlie-tca> :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-08-20
<komputes_ubuntu> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RenameUSBDrive - Outdated, needs palimsest (Disk Utility Method), can anyone help with this change?
<jjesse> anyone that wants to
<j1mc-android> howdy, Gwaihir
<Gwaihir> hey j1mc-android
<j1mc-android> :-)
<Gwaihir> how you doing j1mc-android?
<j1mc-android> Gwaihir: i am good. still at work. almost 4pm here.
<Gwaihir> me almost heading to bed :-)
<j1mc-android> :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-08-22
<no0tic> hi
<no0tic> I'd like to request the deletion of my personal wiki page (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GabrielePostorino)
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-15
<head_victim> Regarding the person on the mailing list having the fit about the searching, oh never mind jbicha just said what we're all thinking.
<head_victim> As I was half way through typing that line.
<jbicha> I just saw he tried this foolishness 3 years ago
<head_victim> He just linked himself to the other thread, so I was about to say "so betwen when it was looked into last time and now, what have you done to assist in the problem and what has changed to make the previous reasons you were given now null and void"
<jbicha> kim0: howdy
<kim0> jbicha: hey there
<jbicha> kim0: are you sure that Ubuntu Server supports ARM?
<kim0> jbicha: starting 11.10 it will support ARM yes
<kim0> jbicha: I got a confirmation from Robbie the server team manager
<jbicha> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/oneiric/alpha-3/ doesn't have a usual installer for ARM but it does have some preinstalled
<jbicha> ARM image for an SD card so that's a bit weird
<jbicha> ok, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-16
<jbicha> mdke: I'm guessing that the idea to have yelp adapt its homepage to the environment it's running in won't happen for 3.2?
<jbicha> so I'm resetting the homepage to ubuntu-help and then we can just sync gnome-user-docs from Debian, right?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-17
<mdke> jbicha: thanks for taking care of yelp, that's right. I'm not sure about synching gnome-user-docs from Debian - I don't know what the state of it in Debian is. I was planning just to sync it with upstream git
<mdke> jbicha: oh, I see that you've synched from Debian already. I guess that makes this branch out of date now - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/oneiric
<mdke> jbicha: what I've been doing is maintaining that branch so that it can be easily synched from the latest upstream via "bzr merge lp:gnome-user-docs", that way we don't have to rely on Debian or upstream releases but can use the latest git
<jbicha> mdke: whatever you like, not much has been happening in Gnome recently
<jbicha> I figured syncing with Debian was a good start though
<mdke> jbicha: I guess what we should do it sync the packaging of the latest package which you uploaded to that branch, so that it stays up to date, and we can keep synching with upstream Gnome when appropriate - does that make sense?
<jbicha> mdke: you mean ship git snapshots of upstream Gnome?
<mdke> yes, that's what we've always done in the past
<mdke> lp:gnome-user-docs is a bzr import of the upstream git
<jbicha> mdke: ok, that's fine, it just hadn't been pushed to the repositories yet, we were still using a rather old snapshot
<mdke> sure
<mdke> jbicha: do you have upload privileges?
<jbicha> mdke: not yet...
<mdke> it would be good to have someone who can take care of yelp uploads and so forth
<jbicha> I help with the Desktop Team & they sponsor my uploads
<mdke> that's great
<mdke> jbicha: would you be able to merge the package that you uploaded to the ~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/oneiric branch? I could try to do it but might get stuck if there are many packaging changes - I don't understand things like quilt
<mdke> (if you agree that it makes sense to keep that branch going)
<jbicha> mdke: sure, but the packaging is pretty simple
<mdke> I can give it a try this weekend otherwise
<jbicha> mdke: what about just overwriting the branch with debian's svn experimental branch? or do you want all 1946 revisions in the source tree?
<mdke> jbicha: I think that keeping the revisions means that we can sync more easily from the upstream branch, unless I've misunderstood
<mdke> I may be wrong about that though
<mdke> the branches are based on the same base
<mdke> -> work
<jbicha> lp:ubuntu/gnome-user-docs only has 44 revisions, I could copy that over instead
<mdke> jbicha: I don't that lp:ubuntu/gnome-user-docs could sync from lp:gnome-user-docs, because they have different bases, but again, I may be wrong about that
<mdke> jbicha: I recall that failing in the past but I don't know whether bzr has changed its behaviour
<jbicha> mdke: probably not, you could just take the current oneiric branch and copy and paste the upstream git pages into it
<jbicha> I don't know how to make it more automated and work
<jbicha> PPA recipes can do that I believe but that's not what we're wanting
<jbicha> I noticed today that upstream's releases exclude the .stub and .page-old, I need to add a filter like that in our rules file
<mdke> My approach would be to copy the packaging changes that you have made manually over to lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/oneiric, and then synching with upstream is as simple as "bzr merge lp:gnome-user-docs". But I may not have understood your response
<jbicha> mdke: oh ok, maybe that would work, I don't have a lot of experience with merging branches
<mdke> I think it should work, that was the whole point of maintaining gnome-user-docs in those branches
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-18
<komputes> Hi everyone!
<komputes> I am trying to find every wiki page which points to HardwareSupport, does anyone know how to get a list of pages that refer/link to HardwareSupport?
<komputes> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport?action=info&hitcounts=1 seems to do that but I can't get it to load
<jbicha> komputes: this might not be what you need but it's something to try: http://is.gd/WPdlhM
<komputes> jbicha: no only from within the wiki, I searched linkto:HardwareSupport
<jbicha> you could add site:wiki.ubuntu.com to the Google search
<komputes> jbicha: brings up so many false positives: http://is.gd/5gZBRr
<jbicha> hmm, sorry
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-19
<kim0> hey folks, I have a question, what's the freeze date for merging fixes to the ubuntu server guide ? Is this the same as "Documentation string freeze" = Sep 15th ?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-08-21
<mdke> kim0: yes
#ubuntu-doc 2013-08-15
<pleia2> meeting with the CC in 5 minutes
#ubuntu-doc 2014-08-12
<DS-McGuire> Time appropriate greetings all! Did anybody else have problems with Ubuntu.com and the ubuntu archives?
<pmatulis> Darkwing: hello
<pmatulis> woops
<pmatulis> hmm, DS-McGuire left quickly
#ubuntu-doc 2014-08-14
<belkinsa> [08:12] <dholbach> alllllll right, 2h to go until the Ubuntu Global Jam planning on http://ubuntuonair.com We could plan for the Doc Team side of things on the Hangout today
#ubuntu-doc 2015-08-10
<pleia2> ahoneybun: people without a launchpad account can't edit the help.ubuntu.com/community/ wiki because ubuntu single sign on alone does not pass along a nickname, which is required for the wiki
<pleia2> we've been trying to get this fixed for quite some time
<ahoneybun> ohhh
<ahoneybun> I thought you meant a name for the service
<ahoneybun> SSo
#ubuntu-doc 2015-08-12
 * pmatulis unavailable for an hour
#ubuntu-doc 2016-08-15
<Sven_vB> hi.
<Sven_vB> ok my idea of volunteering just collapsed under the requirements, so... can I win some approved docs people to fix some web design issues on help.ubuntu.com? most urgent for me, there's that anonymous table with direct styling around the div.table-of-contents, could someone give a class or id to that? it even looks like it should probably be a <nav> instead of a single cell table.
<pleia2> Sven_vB: are you able to send a message to the mailing list about this? I don't think the folks who can make changes are always in channel
<pleia2> we mostly collaborate on the mailing list
<Sven_vB> if the list allows, i could send a fire&forget mail. really joining and getting accustomed to the list would look more tedious than making my proxy rewrite it for my part of the internet.
<pleia2> you need to be subscribed
<pleia2> (the Ubuntu mailing lists get a TON of spam otherwise)
<Sven_vB> ok... maybe i can find a bug tracker and file a feature request for the docs instead
<pleia2> yeah, the link in the footer of all the pages will work
<pleia2> assuming it's the static docs on help.ubuntu.com, and not the wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community/
<Sven_vB> indeed, above problem is on wiki pages
<Sven_vB> I followed the wiki guide's link to login with Launchpad, and instead it leads me to Ubuntu one, have they been merged?
<pleia2> they have
<Sven_vB> thr transition from UbuntuOne back to help.â¦ takes forever :<
<Sven_vB> and I haven't even figured out which project to file the bug for. maybe i should start the local fixing approach
<pleia2> yeah, they put a lot of caching in on the wiki since the moinmoin software version we're using hasn't scaled well
<pleia2> so everything is slow
<pleia2> many discussions about switching to a different wiki, but we're all volunteers and none of us has time to work on such a project
<Sven_vB> at least now I have an idea why there's still a table in the code. :D
<pleia2> you can file the comments against the ubuntu-doc project and someone will re-file if needed
<pleia2> but yeah, not at all surprised by use of tables, it's old
<Sven_vB> so that launchpad login link lead me to ubuntu one which lead me back to the wiki. then i follow the "ubuntu-wiki-editors Launchpad team" link and shall login to launchpad, but this time using launchpad's version of Ubuntu one which my browser hasn't saved the password for... this is chaos
<pleia2> I know, I wish it wasn't such a mess
<pleia2> the LP/Ubuntu One switch was done by Canonical IS with no communication with the community, and apparently fixing it isn't a priority of them, so we're pretty stuck
<Sven_vB> so finally i arrived at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc but there's no button to file a bug. :< i guess it's like Ubuntu forums where they expect me to clairvoyantly guess that buttons will appear once i login? (or joined the team and get approved in this case)
<pleia2> that's the team, you want the project: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc
<Sven_vB> oh ok, thanks
<pleia2> sure
<Sven_vB> it's filed. in case anyone wants to add heat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+bug/1613309
<pleia2> thank you
<Sven_vB> yw :)
#ubuntu-doc 2019-08-12
<craigbass76> I was reading on the site the other day , and ran across SUbiquity with a capital U. Now I'm seeing Subiquity, with a lowercase u. Is the latter the "official" capitalization?
#ubuntu-doc 2019-08-13
<pleia2> I've never seen it with a capital U
<pleia2> which sites were you seeing it on?
