#ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 2013-05-14
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
<arosales> Hello folks, we'll be getting http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21815/servercloud-s-cloud-images-lts-enablement/ underway in a minute here
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | 12.04.x images with LTS Enablement Kernel | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21815/servercloud-s-cloud-images-lts-enablement/
<arosales> Any folks interested in being in the G+ hangout?
<arosales> specifically for http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21815/servercloud-s-cloud-images-lts-enablement/
<arosales> Hello getting kicked off for the 12.04.x images with LTS Enablement Kernel session
<smoser> http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/13.04/release/
<bjf> can you clearly state what you think the policy is today and what the difference is with your new plan?
<smoser> can you clarify "policy"?
<smoser> suggesting that there is a
<smoser>  http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/13.04/release/
<smoser> and a
<smoser> err..
<smoser> http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/release/
<smoser> and
<smoser> http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04-lts/release/
<xnox> Well - the desktop .X releases have only the lts-backports kernel. Thus to "get older" kernel, one installs using older .0 image.
<xnox> ...
<xnox> but raring-lts kernel is support for the lifetime of the LTS.
<bjf> the default for 12.04.2 is the Quantal kernel
<bjf> the default for 12.04.3 will be raring
<xnox> that's on the desktop images, but i don't think that was the case on the server images.
<xnox> would be interesting if server ISOs follow same as the Cloud images.
<smoser> xnox, personally, thats completely unacceptable.
<bjf> xnox, i thought that was supposed to be the default for all
<smb> The only pressing reason to ship the newer kernel would be if the cloud-image is run on hardware that would not run on the older kernel. OTherwise it should be simple to pull in the meta package for lts to switch over
<chiluk> no upgrade step is a big problem.  because most people see lts = 5 years of support ..  whereas lts+raring backport would have a 9 month support window.
<xnox> smoser: sure. that's just what the current state is on the desktop cds.... =(
<xnox> bjf: let me double check quickly.
<bjf> chiluk, lts+raring is more than 9 months
<bjf> chiluk, lts+raring is until 14.04.1
<bjf> chiluk, that's lts-backport-raring
<timrc> g+ hangout keeps dying on meâ¦ is this happening for anyone else?
<marcoceppi> timrc: not here, it's been going strong since start
<bjf> timrc, working fine here
<arosales> chiluk, there were always be the LTS (percise ) kernel where the 5 years of support lies.  The latter interim release kernels will have the 9 months of support
<xnox> timrc: refresh the page. It works ok for me, but I am on a good wifi.
<chiluk> I'm more worried about the confusion it will generate.
<timrc> bjf: argh, okay.  Thanks!
<bjf> arosales, that is not correct for lts-backport kernels
<xnox> arosales: lts-backport kernels have support from when they become part of the 12.04.X release up until throughout the rest LTS support cycle.
<bjf> arosales, lts-backport kernels for precise will be supported until 14.04.1
<xnox> including security fixes. See, the USN against all of them.
<arosales> bjf, xnox: would you be interested in joining the hangout to provide additional info on backports?
<xnox> nah =)
 * xnox thought this is more about server.iso but it seems like it's all about the cloud-images.
<bjf> arosales, sure
<bjf> xnox, did you figure out what the default kernel is for 12.04.2?
<smb> utlemming, For mass rollout could one not just change the seed to include the lts kernel meta package
<smoser> utlemming, right.
<smoser> that is the suggestion of re-bundling images
<smoser> user can do this already
<smoser> smb, do you know do the 12.04.X isos install the backports kernels?
<smb> smoser, Not 100% but I would expect them to
<smb> Cause of size restrictions on the iso
<smoser> right. so i know it doens't hav 2 kernels.
<smb> smoser, It _is_ 3.5 (Quantal)
<smoser> gracias.
<smb> utlemming, So they VM would not initially boot with the old kernel?
<utlemming> smb: that depends
<chiluk> hongout on air failing..
<smb> chiluk, running for me
<arosales> quick bottom of the hour check
<arosales> Any question still outstanding that haven't been answered in the hangout?
<rtg_> bjf, remember that quantal  is special 'cause we promised 18 months, but saucy and other interim releases only get 9 months.
<bjf> rtg, true
<bjf> rtg_, we said all lts-hwe kernels get until the first point release of the next lts
<bjf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BradFigg/SupportSchedule
<bjf> rtg_, ^
<bjf> rtg, so, not true
<bjf> ogasawara, ^
<rtg_> bjf, ogasawara - we gotta discuss this on mumble after the session
<ogasawara> rtg_: ack
<ogasawara> rtg_: but I agree with bjf, we agreed to special case support for some of the release until the 14.04.1 time frame
<ogasawara> else we'd leave users unsupported
<ogasawara> rtg_: I think we need to update some of the schedules and policies per discussions coming out of the sprint
<ogasawara> bjf et al, lets follow up in our kernel misc session later today
<ogasawara> smoser, arosales ^^
<bjf> ogasawara, ack
<ogasawara> I'd planned on talking about HWE kernels there anyways
<arosales> ogasawara, thanks, will do.
<smoser> ogasawara, ack
<smb> arosales, utlemming last session toda
<utlemming> smb: I'll be there
<arosales> smb, ogasawara the session is http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21777/foundations-1305-kernel/ correct?
<ogasawara> arosales: correct
<ogasawara> arosales: let me know if you or someone from you team want to be in the actual hangout for that
<bjf> arosales, ok, we'll cover this again in the afternoon session but the kernel team has agreed to the support as i stated it, until the next lts .1 release
<arosales> ogasawara, thanks. I think utlemming will want to be there
<ogasawara> arosales: ack
<xnox> Precise is that good =)
<xnox> i wonder if any of them will upgrade to 14.04.....
<smb> Usually VMs are more stable about hw emulation.
<smb> Except probably the case utlemming mentioned
<smoser> its interesting actually.
<smoser> you just have an immature hypervisor
<smoser> which is the same as having immature hardware
<smoser> only it can actually change *faster* than hardware could.
<smoser> xen and kvm were immature at osme point. as was vmware.
<utlemming> which is the reason why HyperV and HWE kernels are interesting
<utlemming> HyperV moves fast
<smoser> immature things move fast
<arosales> Any other questions?
<smoser> 18 year olds too.
<arosales> to specifically address in the hangout?
<arosales> [QUESTIONS]
<arosales> 12.04.x Images sessions has concluded
<arosales> Next session up: Cloud-Init for Vagrant @ 16:05 UTC
<arosales> ref link = http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21790/servercloud-s-cloud-vagrant/
<zyga> hi
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Cloud-Init for Vagrant | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21790/servercloud-s-cloud-vagrant/
<smoser> hello everyone
<smoser> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21790/servercloud-s-cloud-vagrant/
<smoser> 10
<smoser> 9
<smoser> 8
<smoser> ...
<smoser> should be live now
<smoser> do we have a vagrant developer here ?
<smoser> if so, you can come into the hangout discussion
<arosales> Starting http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21790/servercloud-s-cloud-vagrant/ session
<zyga> hi
<arosales> zyga, hello
<arosales> ping me if any folks would like to join the hangout
<geofft> I can hear you after reloading my YouTube page.
<arosales> Please pre-sed questions with "[QUESTION]"  so we can be sure we don't miss them.
<geofft> er, wrong channel
<zyga> I don't know if this is the session but I'd like to see more support for vagrant images in general: in particular, desktop images
<zyga> as a generic platform for testing
<arosales> zyga, this is mainly for cloud images, but the idea is to use that in a desktop platform.
<arosales> ie make it easier for a Ubuntu deploys in vagrant
<arosales> so while this is not specifically for desktop images, it would be applicable for desktop vagrant workflows
<arosales> jcastro asks, "what about virtualbox itself?
<arosales> would we need to mainline that too?"
<arosales> hello jcastro. I just asked your question, "what about virtualbox itself? Would we need to mainline that too?"
<zyga> arosales: existence of official vagrant desktop images would allow for a lot of testing that is currently splintered across various tools, to happen. I don't know if that is doable easily with the current infrastructure. I don't want to talk about this during the session too much but I would like to point out the usefulness
<jcastro> so what work is hardest, mainlining vbox or getting vagrant working on kvm?
<utlemming> jcastro: mainlining vbox
<jcastro> bummer. :)
<zyga> jcastro: vagrant upstream is very interested in additional backends and there are existing talks about kvm
 * jcastro nods
<jcastro> ok so vbox to get it out and working, and then kvm-long term for linux users
<arosales> vbox also is a good platform for other devs such as OSX users developing for Ubuntu
<arosales> kvick, hello
<kvick> Please keep in mind that the vagrant author thinks vbox is terrible
<jcastro> heh
<zyga> one thing you may need to remember about is vagrant likes to use guest filesystem sharing (which is useful for development targetting ubuntu, eg webapps work) and this has no direct replacement in kvm. There is a mode to use nfs but it's not the default
<zyga> er
<zyga> host filesystem
<smoser> zyga, plan9 is that.
<arosales> kvick, do you have any pain points for the current vagrant/ubuntu workflow?
<utlemming> zyga: plan9 is the shared fs...and that works really well.
<kvick> besides chef not being already installed in 12.04 :) Â I know it's a licence issue that is resolved in later versions
<zyga> utlemming: are you really proposing to use plan9?
<zyga> utlemming: I know about what plan9 is but I have no experience with it
<jcastro> man I didn't even know people used plan9, hah
<kvick> thanks for the explanation. Â makes sense
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-chef also for reference for the work done to get chef updated
<arosales> kvick, I think utlemming does have some thoughts on using backports for a way for betting the story on 12.04 though
<arosales> the 12.04 vagrant story that is.
<jcastro> it is certainly an awesome local dev story
<utlemming> I can't hear Mims
<arosales> m_3, coming through ok for me.
<jcastro> m_3: +50!
<utlemming> can I get a repeat?
<utlemming> I can't hear m_3
<jcastro> maybe yes! :)
<arosales> any other questions for this session?
<arosales> jcastro, assigned you the work items to get juju working against vagrant :-)
<jcastro> all good here
<jcastro> arosales: yeah I see what you did there
<arosales> Cloud-Init for Vagrant session has ended
<arosales> We'll start the next session, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21789/servercloud-s-cloud-init/
<arosales> @ 5 minuts  past the top of the hour (18:05 UTC)
<smoser> arosales, that is the *next* hour
<smoser> (its currently 16:45 UTC, cloud-init discussion here starts 18:05 UTC)
<arosales> smoser, ah yes at the top of the next hour :-)
<arosales> smoser, thank you
<arosales> lunch/break is up next
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Cloud Init & Cloud Image Development for Saucy | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21789/servercloud-s-cloud-init/
<arosales> we'll be starting the http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21789/servercloud-s-cloud-init/ session shortly
<smoser> 3 seconds
<smoser> reload now. we are live
<arosales> ether pad is at http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-cloud-init
<arosales> please feel pre-sed any qeustions with [QUESTION] so we can make sure we don't miss them here.
<utlemming> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5665285/
<smoser> any questions
<smoser> ?
<rbasak> I wonder how many people start cloud instances today without writing or knowing how to write cloud-init userdata?
<rbasak> Thus I think the defaults matter
<rbasak> How about a "fast" option in userdata instead, which drops all the slow stuff? Then the default will still be good.
<rbasak> Sorry I think my stream is lagging.
<arosales>  cloud-init session wrapped up
<arosales> utlemming, smoser do you guys want to work off of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-init
<rbasak> smoser, utlemming: I meant in relation to dropping things like universe and backports by default from the images.
<utlemming> rbasak: actually it would be adding them to the inmages by default. Right now, neither are there
<rbasak> Oh, OK
<rbasak> +1 to making the images easier to use by default
<rbasak> Then we can blog about how to make the cloud images more streamlined via userdata after adding that option. I think it fits Ubuntu better by preferring to make the images more useful with less intervention to more people.
<smoser> rbasak, some smart person decided not to jump on the "throw everything in apt sources list" band wagon
<smoser> i disagree.
<smoser> i htink the *are* usable by more people by default by having less garbage.
<rbasak> Hmm, OK.
<rbasak> I don't feel too strongly about it, and we don't seem to have any other feedback.
<smoser> in reality, the change if we included backports, mulitiverse, partner , the download and apt-decompression time makes 'apt-get update' take like twice as long.
<smoser> i think a general tool for manipulating the common repositories would be nice... and cloud-init then just interacting with it.
<smoser> basically like apt-add-repository
<smoser> but have that support 'multiverse' , 'universe'
<smoser> and have 'apt-remove-repository'
<rbasak> I have a really horrible thought
<smoser> you have 1 minute.
<rbasak> Special userdata "keywords" like "fast" and "full-featured" (and nothing else) that cloud-init automatically interprets with pre-set defaults.
<smoser> :)
<smoser> "ha"
<smoser> and "money making"
<smoser> also
<smoser> :)
<rbasak> Could just be a pointer to a preset userdata file supplied by the package.
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Juju Core Development | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21818/juju-core-development/
<rbasak> Has this started? I don't see the stream.
<chilicuil> I don't see it neither, let's hope it hasn't started =)
<arosales> just started
<marcoceppi> rbasak: chilicuil just started
<arosales> refresh should show
<arosales> actually refresh once more.
<rbasak> It seemed to take a couple of minutes after you said but got it now.
<arosales> Any questions for Juju Core development here?
<avoine> Question: Do you plan to make juju-core to be install on machine via the ubuntu archive instead of uploading tools?  i.e enable cross arch bootstrapping
<arosales> avoine, ok, queued up next
<avoine> ok, got it
<avoine> thanks
<arosales> avoine, thanks for the question
<arosales> Any other questions?
<jcastro> DAY ONE DONE!
<avoine> lot of cool stuff coming!
<gary_poster> :-) definitely
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
#ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 2013-05-15
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Flag Bearer Charms (application) | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21704/servercloud-s-juju-flag-bearer-charms/
<mattgriffin> marcoceppi: how does one join the hangout?
<marcoceppi> mattgriffin: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/fa6dea509240bfe96361ee99a233312bebed02b0?authuser=0&hl=en
<marcoceppi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-flag-bearer-charms
<arosales> Any question please preced them with [QUESTION]
<arosales> Welcome to Flag Bearer Charms (application) session :-)
<bkerensa> [QUESTION] Will there be preferred languages for textbook charms?
 * bkerensa jolts marcoceppi 
<bkerensa> maybe have a textbook charm in all the most common languages?
<bkerensa> ahh
<bkerensa> uhh loud phone
<bkerensa> :s
<bkerensa> if you going to pycon have a py charm
<bkerensa> ruby event have a ruby charm
<bkerensa> that way if people say well lets see ruby we have one
<bkerensa> Could we maybe have a screencast showing the anatomy of them?
<marcoceppi> bkerensa: docs will have that
<bkerensa> ahh
<arosales> bkerensa, ya we'll definitely do an anatomy of a charm web cast.
<marcoceppi> Questions?
<arosales> Flag Bearer Charm Session ended
<arosales> jcastro, in regards to work items in the pad I think it is useful to first collaborate on them in the pad, and then just to a past afterwards into the BP.
<jcastro> ack
<arosales> as launchpad can stomp multiple folks pasting, but if that is coordinated in the hangout no worries
<jcastro> yeah
<bkerensa> heh
<jcastro> I just pasted in the notes to the BP
<jcastro> I've just been burned by buried notes and WI not making it into LP in the past
<m_3> jcastro: thanks... I was just worrying through trying to figure out what work-items we needed to capture
<jcastro> I had one cycle
<jcastro> where I missed an entire blueprint
<jcastro> like next month my boss is llike "how's it going?"
<jcastro> and I was like man, what is he talking about
<m_3> well 0 workitems works too: "It's going great!... what do you mean?"
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Charm Policy Review | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21705/servercloud-s-juju-charm-policy-review/
<arosales> Charm Policy Review starting in a couple of minutes
<arosales> IF you want to join us please feel free to. We are at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a8dd2bb22ca20fe5b4473891f25210fe2d5710da?authuser=0&hl=en
<arosales> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21705/servercloud-s-juju-charm-policy-review/
<cjohnston> heya
<marcoceppi> o/
<jamespage> o/
<cjohnston> so professional
<arosales> cjohnston, hello
<cjohnston> :-)
<utlemming> I don't care where the bits land, as long as they are in the same place
<utlemming> its really hard to do a backup charm with everyone dropping the bits anywhere they want
<arosales> cjohnston, utlemming feel free to join us in the hangout :-)
<arosales> URL is above ^
<avoine> o/
<arosales> avoine, hello
<avoine> hi
<arosales> If folks want to join us in the hangout the URL is in the pad
<arosales> or just give me a ping
<arosales> also preface questions with [QUESTION] so we don't miss them.
<robbiew-uds> jcastro keeping them honest!
<avoine> hehe
<wedgwood> wow, reminder fail. just tuning in
<marcoceppi> Questions?
<avoine> [QUESTION] Does charm writer will have access to per commit test run?
<wedgwood> I'm just catching up. I don't see any surprises.
<wedgwood> jcastro: question ^^
<wedgwood> or arosales ^^
<arosales> wedgwood, ack
<arosales> Any other questions?
<wedgwood> have we discussed anything about how a ratings system might relate to or affect policy?
<wedgwood> jcastro: +1
<wedgwood> It would be nice to be able to say we require a certain quality rating for production environments
<wedgwood> I'm good thanks
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Audit Charms | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21703/servercloud-s-juju-audit-charms/
<arosales> jcastro, ping
<jcastro> pong
<jcastro> coming
<arosales> Started session: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21703/servercloud-s-juju-audit-charms/
<arosales> pad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-juju-audit-charms
<arosales> Google hangout URL is in the pad if you are interested in joining us. Be sure to preface questions with [QUESITON] so we don't miss them.
<marcoceppi> Questions?
<arosales> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/charm-store.html --> should we add an "audit charm" guide ?
<arosales> Charm Audit session done
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Charm Development Tooling | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21702/servercloud-s-juju-charmhelper2/
<arosales> Charm Development Tooling starting in a bit
<arosales> If your are interested in joining us in the hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7702813e48c52e2459fda12e4c5e86b4da64541c?authuser=0&hl=en
<arosales> we are live in the google hangout.  If you have any questions please preface them with [QUESTION] so we don't miss them
<mattyw> QUESTION: I'm a bit confused by the idea of the contrib directory. Are we saying this is where contributers would merge to, and then it would get taken into 'main' when it was deemed ready?
<arosales> mattyw, thanks for the question. I'll tee it up
<avoine> +1 for package in main, pip is not checking for signature
<avoine> or other security check
<arosales> for folks wishing to joing us in the g+ hangout feel free to join via https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7702813e48c52e2459fda12e4c5e86b4da64541c?authuser=0&hl=en
<bac_> The branch can be seen at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charm-helpers/charm-helpers/devel/files/head:/charmhelpers/
<arosales> marcoceppi, sorry not main, but universe for charm-tools
<arosales> marcoceppi, Filename: pool/universe/c/charm-tools/charm-tools_0.3+151-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<marcoceppi> arosales: ack
<bac_> arosales: there is also python-charmhelpers, which is in the lp:charm-tools project
<bac_> packaged universe also
<arosales> bac_, thanks
<mattyw> It sounds like contrib is a temporary place to put stuff in to achieve the goal of having stuff in one place - without contributors having to mess around with their package structure too much, and the first step on the road to organising it into a sensible place
<arosales> +1 on keeping charm-tools seperate
<wedgwood> mattyw: that's exactly it
<mattyw> wedgwood, ok - thanks very much, sounds good
<arosales> wedgwood, thanks for confirming
<arosales> wedgwood, do you have the LP link to the current charm helper
 * arosales is trying to collect the list of charm dev tools at the bottom of the pad
<arosales> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-juju-charmhelper2
<wedgwood> lp:charm-helpers
<wedgwood> https://launchpad.net/charm-helpers
<arosales> wedgwood, the icon for the project is nice too
<bac_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charm-helpers/charm-helpers/devel/files/head:/charmhelpers/contrib/
<bac_> arosales: ^^
<arosales> bac_, thanks
<mattyw> wedgwood, arosales does stuff that gets put it in here need to support py juju & juju-core? It looks like there's some stuff in here which is pyju specific
<wedgwood> arosales: I put a list of the included projects at the bottom of the pad
<marcoceppi> mattyw: great question, I'll ask in a second
<arosales> mattyw, I think going forward we would just make sure there is support for juju-core
<arosales> wedgwood, thanks for adding the list
<arosales> adam_g, did you want to confirm out of band relations with mramm, and file a bug if it is not there?
<adam_g> arosales, sure
<arosales> adam_g, thanks
<arosales> Any other questions ?
<bac> marcoceppi: did you see my comment: lp:python-shelltoolbox (documented via extensive docstrings)
<marcoceppi> bac: thank you!
<bac> np
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Juju Framework Charm for Server Application Technologies | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21697/servercloud-s-juju-framework-charms/
<arosales> Framework Charms starting in a bit
<arosales> Feel free to join us in the hangout @ https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f7a5e5cb4adb060c1bc942cd70f0bf62b13c7fb2?authuser=0&hl=en
 * arosales will also put it in the pad
<hatch> I'm hoping to start on it right away
<arosales> hatch, if you want to join us feel free to load up https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f7a5e5cb4adb060c1bc942cd70f0bf62b13c7fb2?authuser=0&hl=en
<hatch> I would like input from anyone who wants this charm as to what relations and feature they would like
<hatch> arosales, yeah it won't connect from either of my machines....I'm keeping trying
<hatch> that's a good idea
 * hatch is going to try and participate via chat 
<hatch> Creating a base charm and then passing it off to someone in that industry is a good idea
<hatch> I think it removes the barrier to entry
<hatch> I would like to create a standard for node
<hatch> so that the juju charm config goes in X
<hatch> across all node apps
<hatch> I would be worried about a way to display these properly in the browser
<hatch> node would be an easy one for that I would think
<m_3> yup
<avoine> [question] Where charmers should put documentation for an application charms? in the README of the framework charm? in a docs/ directory? rtd.org?
<hatch> +1
<hatch> thanks arosales :)
<marcoceppi> avoine: thanks, queued!
<hatch> exactly
<hatch> m_3, we SHOULD standardize the location of the config for juju
<hatch> wrt node applications - so we could say - "put your juju config file in the root dir and call it juju-config.yaml"
<hatch> but we can has that out later on
<m_3> hatch: ack.. that'd be awesome
<m_3> hatch: it's also a problem with sinatra
<m_3> hatch: but yeah, it's worth being opinionated about it imo
<avoine> ok, but what about documentation about creating an new application charm?
<marcoceppi> QUestions?
<m_3> haven't been to date
<marcoceppi> avoine: ack, queuing
<hatch> yeah I'm ok with being opinionated ;)
<hatch> ahh yeah that is also a good idea
<hatch> sure thing
<m_3> http://markmims.com/cloud/2011/09/07/node-mongo-ubuntu.html
<hatch> thanks I'll read that after this
<arosales> Any other questions ?
<jcastro> avoine: any platform you're interested in in particular?
<avoine> I'm Patrick, I'm writing the Django charm
<hatch> yup will definitely be doing that blog
<arosales> hello Patrick :-)
<arosales> aka avoine
<avoine> Hey o/
<arosales> avoine, feel free to join us @ https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f7a5e5cb4adb060c1bc942cd70f0bf62b13c7fb2?authuser=0&hl=en
<avoine> my internet is really bad...
<arosales> avoine, our G+ ended, but please feel free to join us tomorrow in some sessions if you are available
<arosales> avoine, ah
<hatch> great chat guys
<arosales> hatch, m_3 has complete confidence that you will fix all node.js problems :-)
<hatch> haha - I am excited to use the node charm so it's in my own selfish interests to do a good job ;)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
<avoine> jcastro: I'll request a merge to get the Django+Gunicorn charm in the store maybe this week or the next one
<avoine> I just need Bruno to check out my spelling :P
<jcastro> sounds awesome
#ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 2013-05-16
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Improve Juju Documentation | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21699/servercloud-s-juju-docs/
<arosales> Juju Docs session starting in a minute
<arosales> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21699/servercloud-s-juju-docs/
<arosales> Notes @ http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-juju-docs
<arosales> Blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-docs
<marcoceppi> Google Hangout having some issues starting on air, please hold
<m_3> questions on docs?
<mattyw> arosales, +1 on that idea
<arosales> If folks want to join in on the Juju Docs session the hangout URL is https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/10bbba04970621a9233d57c88c7d469acc185e86?authuser=0&hl=en
<arosales> Any other questions?
<mattyw> arosales, golang has done a similar thing recently with golang.org pointing to current docs and tip.golang.org pointing to the docs for the tip of the language, that kind of thing is nice
<arosales> last call for questions
<jcastro> arosales: hey for new hangouts
<jcastro> make sure your plugin is up to date
<arosales> jcastro, ah thats probably it
<teknico> my gtalk plugin package is up to date, but still cannot use the toolbox :-/
<arosales> teknico, do you get an error or just not able to navigate to the tool box
<teknico> arosales: I get an authorization request, and then an empty sidebar on the right
<arosales> teknico, firefox, chrom, or chromium?
<teknico> arosales: chromium
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Juju Charm Testing | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21698/servercloud-s-juju-charm-testing/
<arosales> teknico, I have had the most luck with chrome
<arosales> teknico, but as long as you can join that is the main thing :-)
<teknico> arosales: I'll be able to once I get the URL (hint ;-) )
 * arosales starting that now :-)
<arosales> hopefully posting to on air works for me this time
<arosales> For folks wishing to join us in the Juju Charm Testing hangout the URL is: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e6a3c9896f155a4be381900f3fed310542d442b8?authuser=0&hl=en
<arosales> notes for this session are at: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-juju-charm-testing
<arosales> blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charm-testing
<utlemming> just an fyi -- the video lag is about ~4 minutes
<mattyw> arosales, what was the jenkins address?
<arosales> mattyw, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/view/Precise%20Charms/
<mattyw> arosales, thanks
<arosales> mattyw, sure np.
<arosales> that the latest marcoceppi has been working on for graph testing to get reliable results
<arosales> marcoceppi, [QUESTION]: Will there be an example test folks can look at?
<mattyw> marcoceppi, are you planning on talking about it during one of jcastro 's friday charm schools?
<arosales> mattyw, question queued
<jcastro> charm school is this friday btw!
<m_3> but that charmschool won't have the integration tests examples
<m_3> perhaps the next one
<arosales> testing charm school may be a couple weeks out to follow when the initial testing bits are ready.
<marcoceppi> +1 arosales
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> basically, anytime anything lands except the next charm school to deal with it
<mattyw> arosales, I'm joining the hangout with questions
<arosales> mattyw, yes please do :-)
<marcoceppi> Questions?
<arosales> coming round the bend . . .
<arosales> last call for questions for Juju Charm Testing . . .
<arosales> 3
<arosales> 2 .  .
<arosales> 1 . . .
<wedgwood> marcoceppi: I'd suggest test_* rather than *.test. allows for filetype extensions (and it's the python convention, fwiw)
<marcoceppi> wedgwood: so test_00-blah.py for lexi ordering>?
<wedgwood> if ordering matters to you, I suppose so...
<marcoceppi> Also, since all tests need to be +x anyways, would it matter?
<marcoceppi> wedgwood: it would for this case
<wedgwood> I'm also thinking *.bench would clash when listing your tests
<wedgwood> why not just "anything executable inside x directory"
<wedgwood> then they could be named freely
<marcoceppi> wedgwood: as long as people didn't make their "test helpers" executable, that would be fine
<wedgwood> ALSO, what about .exe on filesystems that don't have executable bits.
<wedgwood> fail for both of us
<m_3> might also wanna bootstrap tests from a single master.test file or something
<wedgwood> shall we take this to #juju?
<m_3> or subdir per scenario
<marcoceppi> I guess people could just use a lib/ for helpers and then anything that's executable in tests/ run
<wedgwood> marcoceppi: but NTFS doesn't have an executable bit
<marcoceppi> wedgwood: .exe is whole other bundle of fun, but I could see juju test scanning for +x then for .exe
<marcoceppi> Yeah, lets move to #juju
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Add User Feedback loops and Social Networking to Charm Store Charm Pages | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21694/servercloud-s-juju-charmstore-feedback-loops/
<arosales> For folks wishing to join us in the hangout for the Feedback loops in the Charm Store please use
<arosales> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0668cba98347aa731901ad12783d4ba70dd1bebe?authuser=0&hl=en
<arosales> Notes @ http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-servercloud-s-juju-charmstore-feedback-loops
<arosales> Any questions for adding feedback loops to the charm store?
<arosales> Last call for questions?
<arosales> sinzui, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charmstore-feedback-loops work items updated
<sinzui> thank you!
<arosales> sinzui, thanks for joining the session :-)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Track: Cloud & Server | Juju GUI Development | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21819/juju-gui-development/
<gary_poster> jcastro, link?
<jcastro> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/041beb28b529693593663161927dfd82747426c9?authuser=0&hl=en
<gary_poster> thank you
<jcastro> 2 minutes until we begin!
<jcastro> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21819/juju-gui-development/
<Makyo> Blog: http://jujugui.wordpress.com/
<jcastro> http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/wordpress
<marcoceppi> +1 icons on deployment map
<marcoceppi> woowho logs \o/
<Makyo> +1 to fantastic job
<Makyo> For instance: <url>/:flags:/gui.draganddrop.enable
<gary_poster> If anyone wants to ask a question, now's your chance
<marcoceppi> no questions! Thanks!
<gary_poster> :-)
<arosales> just a +1 for general Juju GUI goodness
<arosales> good to finally visually show Juju
<hazmat> http://jujugui.wordpress.com/
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/servercloud-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
