#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-22
<epkugelmass> hi. i'm looking to double-check that the content of my chapter fits the ui changes in lucid. i'm trying to install beta1 in virtualbox, but i can't get past the first screen 'try ubuntu...install ubuntu...memtest...etc.'
<epkugelmass> anyone got a pointer?
<humphreybc> alright time to roll out the new logo
<humphreybc> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'm back now.
<humphreybc> godbyk cool
<godbyk> I started to read through the manual earlier.
<godbyk> You use 'simply' way too often. :)
<humphreybc> could you update the website with the new logo?
<humphreybc> including the favicon
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> I can try.
<godbyk> Is it the same size as the old one?
<humphreybc> no
<humphreybc> you'll have to change things a bit
<humphreybc> the new logo files are under team-images/logo
<humphreybc> and team-images/banner
<humphreybc> also can you add the following as options to the form
<humphreybc> Inconsistencies in wording
<humphreybc> Missing references
<godbyk> what's missing references mean?
<humphreybc> like links to community docs and things
<godbyk> how will people know when a ref is missing?
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> okay maybe don't add that option in, they can just specify it if they need to
<humphreybc> some people might know of a good guide to setting up ATI drivers or something that they think should be linked
<godbyk> They can categorize it under 'missing information' or use the 'other' option.
<humphreybc> kk
<godbyk> As I started proofreading the manual (I've only got halfway through the installation chapter), I've been making a list of common errors I'm encountering.
<godbyk> that way we can send that list out to give hints on what to look for, too.
<humphreybc> awesome
<humphreybc> i'm just typing up the OMG post now
<humphreybc> won't post it for another couple of hours
<godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> I think I'm gonna have to play with the graphic a bit.  :(
<godbyk> yeah, we should figure out a couple details before you post it.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins brought up a point earlier as to who should have access to edit the spreadsheet so we know what's been fixed and what hasn't.
<godbyk> also, who's allowed to make edits? we don't want everyone in the universe editing at the same time, or bzr will murder us.
<humphreybc> hmm\
<humphreybc> just me, you, Jamin, Josh and Bryan
<godbyk> When we're ready to push out the article, I'll add a para on the website about helping us find bugs.
<humphreybc> cool
<godbyk> is the svg for the logo and stuff in the repository?
<humphreybc> perhaps you and dutchie can triage the bugs from the spreadsheet to launchpad and assign them to either myself, Jamin or Bryan
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> all under team-images
<humphreybc> and is there a way in the spreadsheet to mark something as triaged? just delete the row?
<godbyk> just delete a row.  maybe we can add a column.. I don't know if the added column will show up in the form or not. we'll have to try it.
<humphreybc> kk
<godbyk> humphreybc: okay, inkscape hates me.  when I copy the logo and paste to a new svg, it is invisible.
<godbyk> Here's what I want:
<godbyk> the original graphic on the site was 344x100
<godbyk> can you make the logo the same size as the original logo (roughly) and then put the text "Ubuntu Manual Project" in two lines, left-aligned next to the logo?
<godbyk> the font is Linux Biolinum O
<godbyk> or we can wait for thorwil to make an appearance. :)
<humphreybc> bollocks. I suck at Inkscape too. I can't even select the logos for some reason
<humphreybc> i can probably do it in photoshop.
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> 344 x 100 you say
<godbyk> well, x100, really.
<godbyk> the width can be up to 364.
<humphreybc> k
<godbyk> er 344
<humphreybc> why does the text have to be on two lines
<humphreybc> ?
<humphreybc> godbyk http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/websiteimage.png
<godbyk> humphreybc: because one line looks crappy? http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<humphreybc> I just see the old one
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> no i dont'
<humphreybc> ew
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> does that one there work for you?
<humphreybc> we could just do a heap of spacing above it
<humphreybc> to push it down
<humphreybc> like this: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/websiteimage2.png
<humphreybc> can you try them both on the site please?
<godbyk> humphreybc: first one is up now.
<godbyk> open the site in a new tab and I'll try the second
<humphreybc> k
<godbyk> second is up now
<humphreybc> hrm
<humphreybc> what do you think?
<godbyk> maybe just make the second one bigger?
<humphreybc> can I make it longer?
<godbyk> about 50% larger?
<godbyk> we can try. :)
<humphreybc> k
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/websiteimage3.png
<humphreybc> try that
<humphreybc> I moved it up a bit to try and line it up with the language combo box
<godbyk> 'kay, it's up
<humphreybc> that looks okay
<humphreybc> i might move it up a tad higher
<godbyk> I s'pose we could even make it a bit bigger, even.
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> k
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/websiteimage3.png
<humphreybc> same link again
<godbyk> look good enough for me right now. we can have thorwil fix anything he finds wrong with it. :)
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> now it's not going to get overwritten by the branch auto update?
<godbyk> it will in 20 minutes if I don't commit it now.
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> okay, pushed.
<humphreybc> so did the healthcare reform work
<humphreybc> ?
<godbyk> I don't know that they've actually done it yet.
<godbyk> the republicans were dragging it out last I heard.
<humphreybc> ah ok
<humphreybc> what's the plan?
<humphreybc> the blog post is all ready to go
<godbyk> looks like it passed.  216 to 203.
<humphreybc> woohoo
<humphreybc> so what does it mean?
<humphreybc> are they publicising healthcare?
<godbyk> no clue.  most of it doesn't really take effect until 2014.
<humphreybc> oh ok
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> when's the next election?
<godbyk> I've lost track of what's in there and what isn't.  It's probably not nearly as cool as I'd hope.
<humphreybc> btw, http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-en.pdf better work because that's what i'm linking to for the post
<godbyk> the next presidential election is 2012.
<humphreybc> ah okay. will Obama be re-elected?
<godbyk> humphreybc: well it does now, but may break sometime.
<humphreybc> surely if W could reelected three times Barack has a chance...
<godbyk> let me copy that pdf over to the real site
<godbyk> that way everyone's using the same revision.
<humphreybc> cool
<godbyk> try this link
<godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf
<humphreybc> yeah that works
<godbyk> do you want to leave megan fox in there?
<humphreybc> is that what we should have as the download link on the wiki and the post?
<humphreybc> oO almost forgot haha
<humphreybc> we should probably take her out
<humphreybc> in case we get into trouble with some feminist OMG! readers
<godbyk> it might be best to just direct them to the website and use the download link there.
<godbyk> that way we can change it on the fly if needed.
<humphreybc> nah, people are lazy
<humphreybc> they won't want to click more than once to downloa it
<humphreybc> i can update the link on OMG if need be
<humphreybc> i'll remove megan and push
<humphreybc> decide on a URL to use for the download link
<godbyk> use the link I gave you then.
<humphreybc> draft?
<humphreybc> that's a good idea to include "draft" in the PDF namne
<godbyk> yeah.
<humphreybc> all clear for me to push?
<godbyk> that's what I figured too.  will make it obvious it's a draft copy.
<godbyk> hold off one sec.
<humphreybc> k
<humphreybc> I wonder if it's worth adding some red text on the top of the license page saying it's a draft
<godbyk> pull then push. I just pushed
<humphreybc> kj
<humphreybc> k*
<humphreybc> man it takes ages to make now
<humphreybc> a good 20 seconds
<godbyk> yeah, I know.
<humphreybc> okay, i removed Megan and replaced the PDF in daker with the new one without Megan
<humphreybc> pushing it now
<godbyk> k
<humphreybc> that's weird
<godbyk> ?
<humphreybc> whenever i try to make the link on the OMG! post
<humphreybc> it changes it to a google docs viewer link
<godbyk> that's lame.
<humphreybc> blogger is owned by google right?
<godbyk> yep
 * sunson referer: http://kanchilug.wordpress.com/
<humphreybc> okay it might have fixed it
<humphreybc> i might post it now godbyk
<humphreybc> check everything is alright
<humphreybc> it's 3:30am in the UK
<godbyk> hold on a bit. let's triple-check everything first. :)
<humphreybc> k
<godbyk> I'm still waiting for bzr to pull down the updates
<humphreybc> hi sunson
<humphreybc> godbyk you better triple check everything fast
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/ubuntu-manual-project-needs-you.html
<humphreybc> i don't think there's a way to un-do the publish :P
<godbyk> well, first, the pdf hasn't been updated on the site yet.
<humphreybc> and someone has already commented haha
<humphreybc> oh bollocks
<godbyk> did you actually push?
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> 'kay. just checking
 * humphreybc thinks so
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> rev 555
<humphreybc> 9 minutes ago
<godbyk> still waiting on it.
<humphreybc> odd
<humphreybc> I just filed a test bug
<humphreybc> the thanks thing on the form looks crap
<humphreybc> and it says "Your response will now appear in my spreadsheet"
<humphreybc> how do I get to the spreadsheet?
<godbyk> they should report if they think there should be a screenshot and there isn't.
<godbyk> still no bzr update. :-(
<humphreybc> crud
<humphreybc> i'll push again
<godbyk> I saw the email message that said you pushed.
<godbyk> not sure why it's not pulling
<humphreybc> hrm
<godbyk> it's not pulling on any of the 3 machiens I've tried.
<godbyk> did it pull already?
<godbyk> check the pdf on the site and see if it's the new one
<humphreybc> what rev have you gt?
<humphreybc> build it and check in the license
<humphreybc> it's quite slow to download off your server
<humphreybc> 3.4KB/s
<humphreybc> could just be our shitty internet
<humphreybc> how do I get into the spreadsheet?
<godbyk> the pdf on the site is rev 554
<humphreybc> crud
<godbyk> I downloaded it at about 400 kbps
<humphreybc> can you manually stick the new one there?
<godbyk> sure, if I had a copy of it. :)
<godbyk> my home computers aren't pulling the update yet either.
<humphreybc> rev 555: humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf
<godbyk> downloading at 15 kbps from you. :)
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> the one you gave me is 554, too.
<humphreybc> wtf
<godbyk> it looks like megan is gone.
<humphreybc> oh yea
<godbyk> so maybe you're just off by a rev?
<humphreybc> no
<humphreybc> i copied it before i pushed
<humphreybc> so i removed megan, compiled the manual, copied it into daker's folder, make clean and the pushed
<godbyk> gotcha
<humphreybc> so it would have been 555 after because I made it on rev 554
<humphreybc> so that's okay
<godbyk> so the pdf would lag behind by one rev #.
<godbyk> right.
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> now how do I get into the spreadsheet?
<humphreybc> to change the thank you text
<godbyk> what's the thank you text say?
<humphreybc> "Your response will now appear in my spreadsheet"
<humphreybc> and it looks all screwed up
<humphreybc> (when it's embedded inside the website)
<godbyk> I don't think we can edit that.
<humphreybc> that sucks
<godbyk> at least, I never typed anything like that.
<godbyk> http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en
<godbyk> feel free to look around.
<godbyk> don't break it, though. people are already using it.
<humphreybc> that's quite the link
<humphreybc> oh god people alreay are using it
<humphreybc> HA
<humphreybc> I found it
<humphreybc> what do we want to say?
<godbyk> How about: "Thanks for your bug report.  We'll get it fixed soon."  or somesuch.
<humphreybc> "Thanks for helping us make "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04" the best it can be."
<humphreybc> yup i changed it to what you suggested
<godbyk> 'kay.
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> and now we wait?
<humphreybc> or start triaging...
<godbyk> we just wait.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> Any idea what Bryan Behrenshausen's LP name is?
<humphreybc> dw
<humphreybc> found it
<humphreybc> godbyk could you de-capitilize "Edit" on the front page, in "Help Edit the Manual"
<humphreybc> please :)
<godbyk> You get to choose between "Help edit the manual" and "Help Edit the Manual"
<humphreybc> the former
<humphreybc> do that with all the links
<humphreybc> headings sorry
<Takyoji> Wouldn't "in-built" make more sense to be "built-in"?
<humphreybc> Takyoji: where is that?
<Takyoji> First page of Proluge
<Takyoji> page 7
<humphreybc> sure, can you report it as a bug?
<humphreybc> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?bugs
<humphreybc> :)
<Takyoji> "What this guide is not" 2nd paragraph
<Takyoji> Alrighty
<godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/  better?
<Takyoji> Is that a frontend to Launchpad by the way?
<humphreybc> Takyoji, nope
<humphreybc> it goes to a spreadsheet where we can look at the bugs and then report them to launchpad, assign them to the right people
<Takyoji> ahh
<humphreybc> thanks for using the form, it means we can keep track of stuff easier. Otherwise i'll just forget xP
<humphreybc> godbyk much better
<humphreybc> godbyk, could you put this underneath the countdown? http://linuxhub.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/alarm-clock.png
<humphreybc> maybe make it a bit smaller
<humphreybc> bout 70%
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> if you resize it, I can put it there.
<humphreybc> k
<godbyk> don't make it too big or the rest of the text will get pushed down and people may not read it
<humphreybc> you should run this command...
<humphreybc> sudo apt-get install gthumb
<humphreybc> xP
<godbyk> I'm busy editing the manual. :)
<godbyk> I leave the graphics work to those who are better at it than me.. Mr. Photoshop. ;-)
<Takyoji> Bug submitted.
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/alarm-clock.png
<humphreybc> thanks Takyoji
 * Takyoji continues reading
<humphreybc> if you find more errors, just submit them in the form :D
<Guest39530> hi
<humphreybc> hi Guest39530
<Takyoji> By the way, when is the day that screenshot capture starts?
<humphreybc> 1st April
<godbyk> humphreybc: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<Takyoji> Alright
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> godbyk beautiful
<Guest39530> hi humphreybc
<humphreybc> hi
<humphreybc> godbyk, not sure if you can fix this or wait for Daker, but when you click on "Get Involved" on the site, both the Get Invovled and Report a Bug links are dark and bold
<humphreybc> whereas it should just be the "Get Involved" link that's dark and bold
<humphreybc> and the bugs start pouring in
<godbyk> humphreybc: should be fixed now
<humphreybc> yay
<godbyk> four bugs are "pouring in"? :)
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> yes
<humphreybc> hah
<humphreybc> bear in mind that it's 5am in the UK
<humphreybc> and I have at least one person who's going to post it on Planet Ubuntu Monday morning US time
<godbyk> Well, thorwil's blog is syndicated on ubuntu planet.
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> Martin is going to post it, maybe Elizabeth
<humphreybc> I could ask Jono and Alan
<humphreybc> heh
 * humphreybc imagines the entire Planet Ubuntu filled with Ubuntu Manual Project
<godbyk> for bugs that I've found while proofreading, should I submit them to the spreadsheet, submit them to launchpad, or just fix them immediately?
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> fix the immediately
<humphreybc> no point wasting time if you can fix them straight away cos you have the source etc
<godbyk> lucid didn't wake up on my laptop after the lid was closed. that's a bummer.
<godbyk> true
<humphreybc> oh no! it fixed my suspend/resume but broke yours?
<godbyk> apparently.
<humphreybc> that sucks
<humphreybc> did you do a completely clean install or upgrade?
<godbyk> when I lifted the lid, the hard drive ground away for a bit, the screen was showing garbage.
<godbyk> I waited for the hard drive to stop and it did, but the screen was still garbled.
<humphreybc> what graphics card?
<godbyk> I hit ctrl+alt+f1 (to get a text terminal) and nothing happened.
<godbyk> finally had to hold down the power button to power off.
<humphreybc> when you hit caps lock, does the caps lock light go on?
<godbyk> clean install.  nvidia
<godbyk> using the nvidia binary driver
<godbyk> nope, it didn't.
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> same problem i had in Karmic
<godbyk> well, trade back then!  :)
<humphreybc> seems that everything starts up fine but the keyboard and monitor don't wake up properly
<humphreybc> ahaha
<godbyk> I love that the spreadsheet auto-updates as new bugs are filed.
<humphreybc> me too
<godbyk> also, telepathy-haze crashes all the time.
<godbyk> I'd file a bug, but there are already bugs with the same summary line and I'm too lazy to read through them and see if mine's the same bug.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> use Pidgin
<humphreybc> telepathy is empathy stuff right?
<godbyk> I'm going to turn on some music and proofread more of the manual.
<humphreybc> awesome
<godbyk> if you need more, just invoke my name. :)
<humphreybc> sure
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> I usually use pidgin, but I figured I'd give empathy another shot.
<humphreybc> hey
<humphreybc> Robert Ancell is testing our manual
<humphreybc> (Ubuntu core dev, wrote Simple Scan among other things)
<godbyk> well, at least the scanning bits.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> neat that he knows about us though
<humphreybc> I think everyone knows about us to some degree
<humphreybc> which means we're doing pretty well for a 3 month young project :P
<godbyk> you should tell the omg readers to pick a random chapter to start with.  that way we don't have all the bugs in the prologue and installation found, but none in chapter 9 or whatever.
<humphreybc> good idea
<godbyk> I'm going to go read some more of the manual.
<godbyk> ping me if you need anything.
<humphreybc> kk
<Takyoji> So does Quickshot need any testing yet, or?
<humphreybc> Takyoji: not sure. You'll have to talk to Red_HamsterX,  TommyBrunn or ubuntujenkins - they're some of the developers
<humphreybc> I think they're mainly doing in house testing at the moment until they get the UI finished
<Takyoji> ahh
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> you can download the branch if you like
<humphreybc> lp:quickshot
<Takyoji> I might, out of curiosity.
<humphreybc> sweet :)
<humphreybc> okay who the hell used the word "Snooping" in the manual
<godbyk> where?
<humphreybc> godbyk, see the spreadsheet
<godbyk-android> One sec.
<humphreybc> #10
<humphreybc> hey godbyk, howcome spanish isn't listed here? http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<humphreybc> (that's looking really pretty btw)
<godbyk-android> I think I had both those marked in my edits already too.
<pleia2> humphreybc: blog post forthcoming, I'll let you know once it's up
<godbyk-android> It is there.
<humphreybc> pleia2: awesome, thankyou!
<humphreybc> godbyk oh so it is
<humphreybc> I was looking under S for the name
<godbyk-android> Alphabetical by language code.
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> hey jamin
<humphreybc> everything is under way
<jaminday> hey humphreybc
<jaminday> excellent
<humphreybc> excellent *does the finger thing*
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/ubuntu-manual-project-needs-you.html
<jaminday> yeah i just read that post
<jaminday> did you get the email i just sent you?
<humphreybc> it's going to be reposted on the planet too
<humphreybc> nope i'll check just now
<humphreybc> the draft is updated whenever we want to update it
<humphreybc> it's just the one under website/daker
<jaminday> ok
<humphreybc> (anything in daker is hosted at ubuntu-manual.org)
<humphreybc> we could quite easily have the draft be updated for each revision if we wanted to
<jaminday> ah ok. What about just once a day at a set time?
<humphreybc> yeah maybe, we could do it manually
<humphreybc> or godbyk could set a cron job to run at the same time every day that copies main.pdf from the latest build to daker and renames it
<jaminday> yeah thats what i was thinking
<humphreybc> the PPA is a good idea, but I think it might be a bit too difficult to do right now
<humphreybc> I don't know anything about PPAs or packaging
<jaminday> yeah ok - like i said i've got no idea about setting up ppa's
<jaminday> nah thats cool - could be useful for next release maybe?
<humphreybc> yup
<godbyk-android> I can just have the build script copy the latest to the website too.
<humphreybc> we'll definitely do that for 10.10
<humphreybc> godbyk-android, yeah we could do that, can you rename it to ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf ?
<jaminday> oh ok - godbyk-android how often does the build script run
<godbyk-android> I've thought about making a ppa, but don't want to have people complain that it gets updated too often right now.
<godbyk-android> Maybe after the writing freeze
<jaminday> yeah that's why i thought calling it ubuntu-manual-daily or something
<jaminday> and just updating it once a day
<godbyk-android> Right now the build script gets run manually by me, but I can automate it pretty easily.
<humphreybc> godbyk-android: maybe just have it run at a set time every day
<humphreybc> 0000 UTC?
<jaminday> ok. Yeah that way people can see the changes that are made if they are interested, and might save us getting the same bug reported multiple times
<godbyk-android> Sure.
<humphreybc> neat
<jaminday> anyway i just got home from work so am gonna go eat some food etc then i'll be back in an hour or so to do some editing
<humphreybc> awesome :)
<humphreybc> jaminday, I'll start too
<humphreybc> I'm thinking we should just make changes ourselves
<humphreybc> instead of reporting them to the form
<godbyk-android> I hate proofreading
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> humphreybc: you mean if we find bugs we just fix them and not worry about reporting?
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> jaminday: yep
<jaminday> yeah that's what i was gonna do
<humphreybc> we may as well not waste time, since we have the source and are on the team as editors :)
<jaminday> doesn't seem like much point reporting the bugs to ourselves
<humphreybc> haha nope
<godbyk-android> When I was in school and had to proofread mt neighbor's paper I always felt bad because I'd scribble all over it and they wouldn't find many steroids in mine
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk-android> Gash
<godbyk-android> gah.
<humphreybc> steriods huh, android keyboard is fun :P
<jaminday> hehe steroids
<godbyk-android> Damn android keyboard.
<humphreybc> godbyk-android: it certainly has room for improvement
<godbyk-android> Errors.
<jaminday> At first glance i thought it said hemorrhoids for some strange reason
<jaminday> i have no idea why
<godbyk-android> I wouldn't put it past this keyboard!
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> anyway, i'll be back
<jaminday> Also maybe we should add on the website that the draft is updated once per day at 0000 UTC so people know to come back and re-download if it's been a couple of days
<godbyk-android> God idea.
<godbyk-android> Good idea, rather.
<humphreybc> sweet
 * godbyk-android goes back to his book for a bit.
<humphreybc> jaminday: if you log in to the spreadsheet, it gets updated live as people report things
<humphreybc> it's awesome
<humphreybc> we're up to 20 reports already
<humphreybc> http://planet.ubuntu.com/
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> I love how our new logo stands out on a page
<pleia2> :)
<vish> humphreybc: when did that[new logo] happen?
<humphreybc> last couple of days
<humphreybc> thorwil designed it
<vish> ah.. neat
<humphreybc> you like it?
<vish> yup , looks good
<humphreybc> neat :)
<humphreybc> hey so vish, what happened with chapter icons?
<humphreybc> we were going to do watermarked ones rightr?
<vish> humphreybc: i thought we dropped them.. thorwil didnt want them
 * vish doesnt like it either :s
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> righto then
<humphreybc> but i went to all the trouble of mocking up a series of different icon implementations :P
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon4.png
 * vish saw that , wasnt a fan ;p
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> okay then Vish
<godbyk-android> http://milocasagrande.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/what-you-shouldnt-do/
<humphreybc> heh
<nisshh> damn the website looks kickass
<humphreybc> hey nisshh :)
<nisshh> hey
<nisshh> daker did the website yea?
<humphreybc> yup, i designed it tho :{
<humphreybc> :P*
<nisshh> cool
<humphreybc> have a look at planet ubuntu
<humphreybc> and omgubuntu.co.uk
<humphreybc> godbyk interesting list. I think we're pretty good and adhere to most of those. I don't agree with the first one, my mum for example wouldn't make the connection that a button that says "open" opens a document
<humphreybc> for people who have never ever used computers before, even the most obvious things can be overwhelming when you are sat in front of a screen for the first time
<nisshh> many bugs been reported yet?
<humphreybc> nisshh: yeah just over 20
<humphreybc> :)
<nisshh> ah nice
<humphreybc> nisshh: do you have a login to the spreadsheet?
<nisshh> nope i think it requires a @ubuntu-manual.org email
<humphreybc> we need to start reporting these on launchpad and assigning them to people
<nisshh> if i had a login i would help lol
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> godbyk can we get Ryan a ubuntu-manual.org email address?
<godbyk-android> Sure. Email me his address and I'll set it up in a few minutes.
<humphreybc> nisshh: ^^
<humphreybc> what's your email?
<nisshh> nisshh@hotmail.com
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> and we'll go with ryan@ubuntu-manual.org ?
<nisshh> cool
<humphreybc> or do you want nisshh ?
<humphreybc> we've all got our first names
<humphreybc> it's friendlier :)
<nisshh> yea go with first name
<humphreybc> cool, so godbyk-android: nisshh@hotmail.com and if you could do ryan@ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> :)
<nisshh> godbyk: so i presume anything sent to ryan@ubuntu-manual.org will be forwarded to my actaul email?
<humphreybc> so nisshh, basically, there's a spreadsheet with the form results. You'll need to take the stuff from the spreadsheet and manually report each one as a bug under our project in launchpad, then assign it to me, Jamin or Bryan to fix.
<humphreybc> nisshh: nah you'll have to log in to @ubuntu-manual.org and set up email forwarding
<nisshh> ok easy to do
<humphreybc> sweet
<humphreybc> when assigning bugs, bear in mind that Jamin is doing chapters prologue - 3, i'm doing 4,5,6 and Bryan is doing 7,8,9
<nisshh> is there some way of knowing which ones have already been manually reported on launchpad
<humphreybc> none of them have yet
<nisshh> ok cool
<humphreybc> we have to work out a way
<nisshh> a column in the spreadsheet
<nisshh> maybe
<humphreybc> ah nope i found a way
<humphreybc> a strike through
<nisshh> saying "reported on launchpad"
<humphreybc> i did the first one as an example
<nisshh> ah cool
<humphreybc> a column would be better but it might show up on the form... i'll check
<humphreybc> okay no it doesn't, column is good
<nisshh> you will have to bear with me since i havent used google docs or whatever before
<humphreybc> do we need to even use launchpad then
<humphreybc> we could have an "assigned to" column
<nisshh> that would be far quicker
<humphreybc> and then once the bug has been fixed, strike through or have a "fixed" column
<humphreybc> okay let's do that
<nisshh> ok sounds good
<nisshh> also, what are the mugshots of team members going to be used for?
<humphreybc> it's a surprise!
<humphreybc> nothing evil i promise
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> i bet your going to compile a list of team members and post them somewhere arent you?
<nisshh> ok ill send you my mugshot later today
<humphreybc> close, but no cigar
 * humphreybc added in a "Which chapter is the error in" field in the form
<nisshh> hehe oh well worth a shot
<nisshh> godbyk: ping me on here when you have my email setup, thanks.
<godbyk-android> nisshh:  what's your full name?
<nisshh> Ryan Macnish
<humphreybc> godbyk, I added in a chapter question
<humphreybc> but i don't think it's working properly
<humphreybc> no it's not
<humphreybc> damn
<godbyk-android> nisshh: I've sent the info to your email address
<nisshh> cool thanks
<godbyk-android> humphreybc:  isn't the page number enough to locate the error?
<humphreybc> probably but i wanted to make it easier to assign errors to people based on chapters
<godbyk-android> Make it easier for the bug reporter
<humphreybc> doesn't look like it's going to work properly
<humphreybc> yeha
<humphreybc> i removed it
<godbyk-android> We can glance at the pdf and see what chapter it's in  pretty easily
<humphreybc> true
<godbyk-android> The more questions we ask, the fewer responses we'll get.
<humphreybc> kk
<nisshh> humphreybc: ok im logged in and setup, what is the link to the spreadsheet
<humphreybc> http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en
<nisshh> ok got it
<nisshh> so i just need to assing each report to one of you three?
<humphreybc> basically
<humphreybc> and if you come across duplicates, mark them as duplicates
<humphreybc> somehow
<nisshh> hehe ok
<humphreybc> and as they are fixed, we'll mark them as fixed
<humphreybc> in theory
<humphreybc> fun times!
<humphreybc> the spreadsheet auto updates when new entries are submitted
<humphreybc> so you don't need to refresh
<humphreybc> you can just stare at the screen waiting for one to come in and then assign it real quick :P
<nisshh> ok cool, i already found aduplicate
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> we should probably get to fixing them asap and then update the manual so we don't get a crapload of duplicates all week
<humphreybc> hey it's thorwil!
<nisshh> yea
<thorwil> hi!
<nisshh> how should i mark the duplicate?
<humphreybc> your new logo is all over the net :P
<humphreybc> nisshh, switch to the chat in the spreadsheet
<nisshh> thorwil: really like the logo!
<thorwil> humphreybc: cool, but why did i create specific sizes if you go and just scale it?
<humphreybc> I tried to export the big size one
<humphreybc> but it had this problem, i'll show you
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/logo.png
<humphreybc> see the green bar at the bottom left, is out of place
<humphreybc> I couldn't work out how to fix it in Inkscape :P
<godbyk-android> thorwil:  if you can whip up one to  fit the header area of the website, I'll get it uploaded.
<humphreybc> oh yeah thorwil, we had to do a quick and nasty fix for the website :P
<godbyk-android> Inkscape was being cantankerous.
<thorwil> ok
 * humphreybc doesn't know how to work inkscape
 * humphreybc used photoshop
<thorwil> if a hammer is the only tool you know, every problem looks like a nail
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> thorwil, you're so clever
<thorwil> godbyk-android: the first likely stumbling block would be that i have a locked layer in that file
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> there's the problem
<humphreybc> no wonder I couldn't select it
<thorwil> there's a "main" and a "targets" layer
<thorwil> main contains all artwork. targets contains rectangles with IDs such as "ump_logo_192px"
<humphreybc> ohhh
<thorwil> so you can lock the main layer, do a select all in the targets layer, -> export and enable batch export there
<thorwil> you end up with one PNG per rectangle with the IDs as filenames
<godbyk-android> When I copied the logo to a new svg file, it was invisible. I gave up.
<humphreybc> very good
<humphreybc> godbyk, you probably only copied the target area
<humphreybc> same as what I tried to do...
 * humphreybc spent ages furiously clicking the icon to see if he could select that bar to move it one pixel up
<thorwil> hit ctrl-shift-L for the layers panel
 * humphreybc hits ctrl+alt+L and locks his screen
<nisshh> humphreybc: there is a report on the spreadsheet that says "multiple pages" under which page
<humphreybc> that the XSane one?
<nisshh> its a "multi-chapter bug
<nisshh> no its number 22 on the spreadsheet
<nisshh> Should i assign it to all three of you?
<humphreybc> nah
<humphreybc> assign it to Kevin
<humphreybc> it's a LaTeX thing
<nisshh> yep
<humphreybc> give him pink :)
<humphreybc> heh nice, one step ahead of me!
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> might make it a bit lighter
<nisshh> google docs is easy to use
<humphreybc> that other pink was killing my eyes
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> it's google, what do you expect? :P
<nisshh> meh yea true!
<humphreybc> I added in a "Notes" column
<nisshh> yep, see it
<humphreybc> thorwil: there's a bug about the title page there
<humphreybc> awesome
<nisshh> humphreybc: whats with number 30 in the spreadsheet?
<nisshh> ok, they are all assigned at the moment, i will keep checking over the rest of today and update the spreadsheet as needed
<humphreybc> awesome
<humphreybc> # 30 was me testing something
<humphreybc> but i deleted the row
<jaminday> wow this spreadsheet is gonna save us heaps of time catching bugs
 * humphreybc thinks the form/spreadsheet thing will work quite good in future for surveys
<thorwil> humphreybc: what bug?
<humphreybc> "The chat icon's edges are cut"
 * nisshh agrees with benjamin
<humphreybc> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/48269/screenshot_013_xb86tF.png
<humphreybc> dropping your game thorwil, *shakes head* :P
<nisshh> hehe
<thorwil> humphreybc: not at all. this issue does not exist in the svg
<nisshh> humphreybc: you have it easy, chapter 4, 5 and 6 only have a couple of bugs
<thorwil> it would take effort to produce something like that
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> so far they do, nisshh, so far :)
<humphreybc> thorwil: hmm. well it's cut in the PDF, so somewhere along the line that's happening. It's not particularly noticeable
<thorwil> humphreybc: it's alos not cut in a direct export to pdf
<humphreybc> weird
<thorwil> godbyk-android: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/48269/screenshot_013_xb86tF.png ?
<godbyk-android> thorwil: not sure. I just selected the icon and saved as pdf using the selection as the bounds.
<thorwil> godbyk-android: we were going to use exports of the whole svg, anyway, right?
<godbyk-android> if inkscape can handle the typesetting correctly, sure
<godbyk-android> Otherwise we'll have latex do the typesetting and compose they page from within latex.
 * jaminday has his icecream and finally ready to sit down for an hour or two of editing
<humphreybc> jaminday: yay!
 * humphreybc is watching The Cleveland Show
 * nisshh has just finished cleaning out his entire room
<godbyk> just finished my book.
<nisshh> new bug reports rolling in
<nisshh> big one for you benjamin
<jaminday>  I like it how at the top next to the 'Form" menu it has in brackets how many responses we've received.
<nisshh> jaminday: yes i saw that too
<godbyk> I think both the bugs assigned to me are NOTABUGs.
<godbyk> The PDF is set up to be duplex and the chapters open on the right (recto) side of the spread.
<godbyk> jaminday: I was trying to figure out what that meant when it was (3).
<godbyk> I was thinking, 'did I screw up and make 3 forms?!'
<jaminday> hehe
<nisshh> meh
<jaminday> nope just google being kick-ass again
<godbyk> apparently. :)
<nisshh> google is part kick-ass and part privacy-encroaching
<jaminday> hehe yes true
<jaminday> but it's the way of the new digital age
<nisshh> good point there
<jaminday> no one under 15 seems to give a sh*t about privacy anymore!
<nisshh> nope
<godbyk> yeah, I'm torn on the privacy thing.
<godbyk> I like the idea of privacy, but I'm also a pretty open person.  I just don't want to be *forced* to be public.
<jaminday> yeah that's true
<godbyk> seems like society is headed that way anyway, though.
<nisshh> godbyk: exactly
<jaminday> but google does give you the option of making things public or not
<jaminday> it just wasn't too obvious when buzz first launched so they copped a lot of flack
<nisshh> criticism comes first these day
<nisshh> s
<jaminday> yes it does
<jaminday> I just freaked out at how many bug reports i'm getting, but then i realised that most of them are from pages i haven't even looked at yet. Phew!
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> benjamins got alot of bugs coming in for him
<popey> er
<popey> someone broke the bug reporting page
<popey> "Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_STRING, expecting ',' or ';' in /home/godbyk/bzr/ubuntu-manual/website/daker/includes/structure.php on line 139"
<nisshh> godbyk: you better take a look
<humphreybc> oh noes!
<godbyk> it's back
<godbyk> sorry
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> trying to re-add the google analytics code and mucked up the copy/paste.
<humphreybc> smooth
<nisshh> real smooth
<godbyk> heh.
<humphreybc> hey jamin, nice, you're burning through the bugs
<nisshh> bryan has alot of bugs to fix
<humphreybc> popey: thanks for letting us know it was gebrocht
<popey> np
<humphreybc> popey, was going to get you to look over the manual later in the week, along with a few other ubuntu community folk
<jaminday> yeah my first ones were pretty simple, but got a few bigger ones to look at
<humphreybc> looks like we've got a fun week ahead of us
<nisshh> meh
<jaminday> definitely! I've got thursday + friday off from work this week so I'll do most of mine then
<humphreybc> neat
<godbyk> okay, google analytics code should be back in there now.
<humphreybc> i'm pretty busy tomorrow but should have free evenings
<godbyk> I'll be reading the manual through this week and editing as I go.
<nisshh> i have college middle of the week but will assign people after i get home at night
<godbyk> Lots of little bugs so far.  I'm only halfway through the installation chapter.
 * popey has filed a few bugs humphreybc 
<humphreybc> popey, just reading through them now. Very good work, helpful suggestions :)
<humphreybc> we'll get them fixed asap
<humphreybc> feel free to do some more bug checking as you have free time in the rest of the week
<jaminday> godbyk: installation chapter has a few bugs around the partitioning section, as i haven't really fixed that bit up yet
<jaminday> but there are probably others
<godbyk> whoever wrote the prologue and installation chapters really likes the word 'simply'. :)
<humphreybc> godbyk... that may have been me :P
<humphreybc> simply is a good word
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> I've also been marking down where I think we should add glossary entries.
<jaminday> hehe i probably added a few as well
<godbyk> simply is usually not a good word to use in a manual, though.
<humphreybc> this is true
<godbyk> if you tell me I can 'simply' do something, and it's not simple for me, then I feel bad.
<jaminday> That's good feedback cos when you only write bits at a time you don't realise how often you use particular words
<godbyk> failing that, it sounds like bragging. :)
<humphreybc> yeah absolutely
<godbyk> and everyone has their own pet phrases and words when they're writing.
<nisshh> actually i put a few 'simply' in there too
<popey> humphreybc: why aren't you using launchpad for bug tracking?
<godbyk> 'as well as' is a phrase that jumps out at me, too.  usually 'and' will suffice.
<godbyk> popey: too high a barrier of entry
<humphreybc> popey: what he said
<godbyk> with this form we get to control the format and questions
<godbyk> as opposed to the free-form stuff we'd get via launchpad
<humphreybc> we can make it specific to our project
<popey> how will i know if my bugs are fixed?
<godbyk> and the form doesn't require anyone to log in.
<godbyk> so my mom can glance at the pdf and easily file bugs.
<godbyk> popey: you won't.
<godbyk> unless you track them yourself.
<popey> thats unfortunate
<godbyk> Do you really want the three emails per bug when we add a comma?
<humphreybc> unfortunate, but worth the trade-off
<popey> i would like to track my bugs
<popey> as I do with every other part of ubuntu
<humphreybc> but you're not reporting small bugs like commas and things
<godbyk> you're welcome to file them via launchpad if you really want to.
<godbyk> just provide the same type of info.
<nisshh> 44 bugs reported now
<godbyk> there's nothing that prevents anyone from filing a bug via launchpad.  this form is just for collecting a bunch of small bugs in a short period of time.
<humphreybc> for people who are just doing tiny bugs like spelling mistakes and whatnot, a form/spreadsheet type thing is more optimal than launchpad
<popey> ok
<popey> i can just see a few of mine generating discussion
<popey> and that wont be captured
<godbyk> popey: if you think they'll generate discussion or you want to track them more closely, you can submit them via launchpad.
<humphreybc> and besides, we honestly don't have time to discuss every bug - we're pressed for time as it is
<humphreybc> the idea of this is to fix quality issues like spelling, grammar, formatting errors, inconsistencies and whatnot - small bugs
<humphreybc> bugs that anyone who knows anything about english can find
<humphreybc> it will be interesting to see how effective this means of bug reporting and tracking is
<popey> depends how you measure 'effectiveness'
<humphreybc> if we get all of the bugs fixed before the writing freeze, then it's worked well.
<godbyk> I'm hoping that this method will have reduced the barriers to entry so that we get more bug reports than we would have via launchpad.
<humphreybc> it's also working out quite well at the back end too, the spreadsheet is updated live and we have a couple of people assigning bugs to people with colour-coding
<humphreybc> the fixers, three of us, can go through and see the ones assigned to us very quickly, all the information we need is in one row
<humphreybc> then we can just cross it off and mark it as fixed, move onto the next
<humphreybc> meanwhile the whole thing is working live like etherpad, and we can chat to each other while it's working
<humphreybc> for our project, it's a far more efficient and faster bug reporting and assigning tool than launchpad. That's not to say Launchpad isn't good, it is good for other projects that don't have to get hundreds of tiny bugs from hundreds of people and fix them in 9 days.
<godbyk> At least we're hoping that's the case.
<godbyk> Ask us how it worked next week. :)
<humphreybc> ;P
<godbyk> I think that icon bug you have assigned to thorwil is on me.  But I may need thorwil's help to resolve it.
<humphreybc> this is what it looks like: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/spreadsheet.png
<humphreybc> kk
<godbyk> (I probably just checked the wrong box when I exported from inkscape.)
<godbyk> the cover page that's in the pdf is one that I coded in latex. it's not the one thorwil created.
<godbyk> in other words, it's not per thorwil's spec. :)
<humphreybc> kk
<jaminday> Do you think we need a side note explaining what a 'window' is?
<humphreybc> I prettied up our twitter account btw
<humphreybc> http://twitter.com/TheUbuntuManual
<humphreybc> jaminday: hmm
<jaminday> it's kinda just introduced without any introduction to what it actually is
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> okay let's do that
<godbyk> is there an api for submitting bugs to launchpad?
<humphreybc> godbyk apparently there is one, but I'm not sure where the info is on it
<godbyk> that may be handy in the future.
<humphreybc> indeed
<godbyk> so we could design a nice web form that's specific to our project and submit the bug to launchpad in whatever form we prefer.
<humphreybc> that would be good
 * humphreybc might head to bed
<humphreybc> long day at uni tomorrow
<jaminday> humphreybc: no worries, have a good one
<jaminday> i'll do a bit more then join you
<jaminday> not literally of course
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> i hope not!
<nisshh> hehe
<jaminday> hehe
<humphreybc> someone might need to contact Bryan btw
<nisshh> did i miss something??
<humphreybc> has anyone heard from him recently?
<nisshh> no
<jaminday> humphreybc: no not since the meeting
<humphreybc> okay, jamin if you could flick him an email before you hit the sack
<nisshh> he needs to be contacted, he has alot of bugs to fix
<humphreybc> just make sure he knows what's going on
<jaminday> he seemed keen to help out though so hopefully it's still ok
<humphreybc> cool
<jaminday> yeah no worroes
<jaminday> worries
<humphreybc> godbyk can you make sure Bryan has an email to log in to the spreadsheet please
<godbyk> who what huh?
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> gimme his full name and current email address and I can set up an account for him.
<humphreybc> k
<jaminday> godbyk: Bryan Behrenshausen
<jaminday> bryan@stillnotcool.com
<humphreybc> or behrenshausen@gmail.com1
<humphreybc> without the 1
<humphreybc> behrenshausen@gmail.com
<humphreybc> either of those
<humphreybc> or this one bryanb@gmail.com
<humphreybc> send it to all three :)
<godbyk> gah.. pick one. :)
<humphreybc> set him up with bryan@ubuntu-manual.org
<nisshh> humphreybc: expect there to be alot of bugs reported tomorrow, since everyone will check their feed readers in the morning
<humphreybc> nisshh: yeah, well omgubuntu is on UK time
<humphreybc> but there are a couple of posts going up on Planet Ubuntu
<humphreybc> (to sync with US time)
<humphreybc> popey: if you want to post on the planet too I'll buy you a cookie at UDS :)
<nisshh> yep
<godbyk> I sent the info to behrenshausen@gmail.com.
<popey> you coming to UDS humphreybc ?
<humphreybc> popey: not confirmed no, but i remain hopeful haha
<humphreybc> i applied for sponsorship
<humphreybc> "Power of positive thought" right?
<popey> :)
<humphreybc> Elizabeth has already posted an article about our testing, but if you want to do one as well then that would be awesome :)
<nisshh> where is UDS this time around?
<humphreybc> any extra pair of eyes we can get on the manual won't go to waste
<humphreybc> nisshh: Brussels, Belgium
<nisshh> right cool
<nisshh> just hit 50 bugs too
 * humphreybc wonders if there are any UMP members in Brussels
<nisshh> not that i know of
<jaminday> Wow they are coming in thick and fast
<humphreybc> jaminday: heh
<humphreybc> well Joey does have 8000+ subscribers on omg!
<nisshh> and planet ubuntu is huge
<jaminday> 8000+ !
<humphreybc> and if we've made it as simple as it ought to be, there should be 8000 people clicking that download button and submitting bugs. besides, OMG! readers are total grammar nazis.
<jaminday> that works well for us
<humphreybc> indeed
<jaminday> Also i set the Fixed? column to autoformat to green whenever a 'yes' or 'y' is typed in
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> jaminday: nice!
<jaminday> we can remove it if distracting but thought it might make it easier to glance
<nisshh> makes it easy
<humphreybc> jaminday: could you set up the Assignee one to default to yellow if "Jamin" is typed in, green if "Benjamin" is typed in etc?
<jaminday> definitely
<humphreybc> awesome
<nisshh> cool\
<nisshh> its only 6pm here so ill keep assigning bugs
<jaminday> done
<humphreybc> cool
<jaminday> It should work for Kevin, Benjamin, Bryan and Jamin now
<godbyk> Ooh.. I'm aubergine! :)
<nisshh> aahhhh, not aubergine!
<humphreybc> hahaa
<nisshh> reminds me of the lucid theme too much
<jaminday> Kevin now you're WHITE TEXT on aubergine...
<nisshh> *shudders*
<jaminday> oooh
<godbyk> ah, that's better.
<godbyk> Note that my name is left-aligned, too.  Take that, Luddites!
<godbyk> I'm saving the space to the right of my name for something special.
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> like?
<godbyk> You'll have to wait 'til October to find out.
<humphreybc> hahahaa
<jaminday> argh i'm not good at waiting
<godbyk> the bugs marked 'fixed'.. have those been committed or are they just fixed locally on someone's hard drive?
<jaminday> At the moment mine are just on my hard drive till i do a push
<nisshh> if not, they  should be committed and pushed
<jaminday> no point pushing after every bug or i'll be here all night
<jaminday> so i'll just do it when i go to bed
<godbyk> right. was just curious.
<godbyk> though we'll have to orchestrate it well or it'll be hell resolving all the conflicts.
<jaminday> yeah i was thinking that
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> I suppose it everyone sticks to specific chapters, it should be okay.
<godbyk> So all the chapter 1 bugs get fixed by A, ch 2 by B, etc.
<jaminday> yeah hopefully our system will work that way
<jaminday> if we stick to it!
<nisshh> meh
<godbyk> Must not deviate from the plan!
<jaminday> hehe
<godbyk> I think I'll test out the form myself with some of the bugs I've found.
<godbyk> We'll see how fast/slow the form us.
<godbyk> form is.
<godbyk> (Can't blame that one on the android keyboard!)
<jaminday> hehe
<nisshh> godbyk: which android phone do you have?
<godbyk> nisshh: I have a Nexus One.
<nisshh> cool! is it any good?
<godbyk> I love it.
<nisshh> nice, i would get one if they would lower the price a bit
<godbyk> I think I may have to add a 'style / voice' entry to the list of bug types as I have more of those.
<jaminday> yeah good idea
<jaminday> wow, i just worked out that if you right click on maximise, it maximises the window horizontally but keeps the vertical height as is
<nisshh> jaminday: cool!
<jaminday> I've never seen that before!
<jaminday> Maybe it's a compiz thing
<nisshh> obviously they moved that out of compiz and actaully made it a feature
<nisshh> nah, theres a shortcut for it in compiz
<godbyk> Well, there's six bugs for page 7 alone.
<godbyk> On to page 8!
<nisshh> but, if you cant run compiz(like me) then its better
<jaminday> hehe good work godbyk
 * nisshh thinks that godbyk just opened a can of woop-ass
<jaminday> hehe
 * jaminday wishes godbyk started on someone elses chapters first
<humphreybc> ?
<godbyk> this is why I hate proofreading. takes so long to do a thorough job.
<godbyk> heh
<jaminday> humphreybc: are you sleep-typing?
<humphreybc> almost
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> hahah
 * humphreybc just read back through the channel
<nisshh> meh
<humphreybc> i've been trying to feature our bug checking marathon all over the web
<nisshh> like where?
<godbyk> Does that involve typing a lot of question marks? :)
<humphreybc> *"Help the Ubuntu Manual Project!" appears on google.com*
<humphreybc> facebook.com login screen: "Think. Do you REALLY need to perve at your hot friends' photos today, or should you come and help the Ubuntu Manual Project?"
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> nah but seriously, Planet Ubuntu, Ubuntu Forums, various blogs
<nisshh> cool
<humphreybc> and that right click on maximise thing is cool
<jaminday> yeah but it's definitely compiz
<jaminday> doesn't work in default lucid
<humphreybc> awh
<nisshh> no your right
<jaminday> i just googled ubuntu manual and saw this https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/pdf/ubuntu/C/desktopguide.pdf
<jaminday> it's from 6.06!
<godbyk> page 8 -- done
<humphreybc> yeah i know
<humphreybc> nothing like a bit of outdated documentation to throw newbies off xP
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> that always pops up when i do a search for docs i need
<jaminday> that's right. Still, someone put a lot of effort into it back in the day
<nisshh> yea looks like it
<godbyk> anything worth stealing?
<nisshh> most of its waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy out of date...
<humphreybc> jaminday: Canonical stuff
<jaminday> The 'conventions' page is a good idea
<humphreybc> jaminday: we have been meaning to put that in
<jaminday> ah ok
<humphreybc> I believe godbyk was going to do that... :P
<godbyk> oh, yeah. totally forgot about that.
<godbyk> remind me again in 12 hours. :)
<humphreybc> lol
<jaminday> Ours is much more newbie focused - ie we explain a lot of jargon and lingo
<jaminday> but at the price of a lot more words on the page
<humphreybc> indeed
<nisshh> and alot more work for us
<jaminday> there's a good summary of directories/file systems
<jaminday> ie stuff we were talking about the other day humphreybc
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> did you see the image martin made?
<jaminday> nope
<humphreybc> it's in the manual
<humphreybc> end of the installation chapter i believe
<humphreybc> it's just chilling
<jaminday> ah - i'll take a look
<nisshh> oh crap, that reminds me should i explain the different parts of the file system in my chapter for 10.10?
<humphreybc> we need to a) find somewhere to put it and b) write some text to go wit hit
<humphreybc> with it*
<jaminday> ah cool
<jaminday> would it work if the home folder was a different colour to represent it's own partition
<humphreybc> by default it's not on it's own partition thoug
<humphreybc> though*
<jaminday> yeah i know but as an example of how partitions are mounted
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> maybes
<jaminday> that they fit into the existing directory structure
<nisshh> you need to say its not default to have home on a seperate partitiion though
<thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: shall i add a "logo" dir to the manual branch?
<jaminday> rather than a separate 'e drive' or something
<jaminday> nisshh: yeah definitely
<humphreybc> thorwil, team-images/logo
<humphreybc> already one there
<humphreybc> check out /banner too
<thorwil> k
<humphreybc> godbyk have you got that build script automized to make the manual and copy it across to /website/daker each day at 0000 UTC?
<godbyk> nope
<nisshh> oooh, 78 bugs reported now
<humphreybc> could you do that asap so that it's ready for tomorrow?
<godbyk> I'll do it when I wake up, though.
<humphreybc> kk thanks
<humphreybc> bets on how many bugs we'll get to by next Monday?
<nisshh> 280+
<humphreybc> pfft
<humphreybc> we'll get way more than that!
<humphreybc> that's a safe bet :P
<nisshh> if godbyk keeps going, ALOT more!
<godbyk> lol
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> I'm almost finished with page 9.
<humphreybc> well, we've almost got 80 and it's only been available to the public for 8 hours
<thorwil> pushed updated logo files
<godbyk> Another downside to using this form is I don't get mad karma points. :(
<nisshh> yea good point
<humphreybc> godbyk, true, you don't!
<nisshh> godbyk: lol
<humphreybc> godbyk if you want mad karma, go through and update some blueprints :P
<nisshh> godbyk, we will just say you have heaps of imagniary ones
<godbyk> nisshh: I'll take it!
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> so, I reckon we'll easily get about 600 bug reports by next Monday
<humphreybc> potentially a lot more
<nisshh> should we have had more than the three of you on fixing?
<humphreybc> we'll see how we go
<jaminday> nisshh: possibly, but then you potentially sacrifice consistency
<humphreybc> if we need more then yeah we'll have to get some more
<godbyk> page 9 -- done
<humphreybc> yay
<jaminday> a lot of bugs will be simple, quick fixes like a spelling mistake or something
<thorwil> godbyk: want a logo-title image flattened on that grey for the website?
<godbyk> thorwil: sure! if that is transparent.
<nisshh> yea i guess
<godbyk> (not sure if the transparency would blend well or not)
<thorwil> godbyk: huh? current one seems to have alpha channel, but is on a flat grey ground, afaics
<godbyk> nice.  blame humphreybc. :)
<humphreybc> huh?
<thorwil> humphreybc: the website background will stay flat grey?
<humphreybc> thorwil: yep
<humphreybc> for the foreseeable future
 * humphreybc is expecting to wake up tomorrow to see 200 bug reports
<godbyk> We're at 87 now
<humphreybc> anyone else notice that we've had about 4 or 5 people join the team since this started?
<humphreybc> could prove to be quite the publicity stunt as well
<godbyk> page 10 -- done
<jaminday> godbyk: nice work on the bug reporting. I've been mainly focussed on bigger changes like rewriting paragraphs that needed it, so there's lots of little stuff I've missed along the way.
<jaminday> It will save me so much time just going through your bugs to find them.
<godbyk> yeah, it's not difficult to find the errors, just time-consuming.
<godbyk> who's assigned the installation chapter?
<jaminday> that would be me
<godbyk> oh, man.  you're gonna hate me today!
<jaminday> i still need to finish partitioning and some stuff at the end i think
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> i'm sure i will!
<jaminday> don't hold back though
<jaminday> godbyk: just a thought - you might want to skip chaps 2 and 3 for now and come back to them later.
<jaminday>  I am still doing my first edit (major edit) on these chapters so there will be a lot of stuff that gets fixed
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> I've only done the first couple pages of chapter 2
<godbyk> so I'll leave off that and come back to it later then
<godbyk> I'm going to try to finish entering the bugs I've got so far and then get some sleep.
<jaminday> ok. I'm up to 'managing windows' in ch 2.
<nisshh> 91 bugs now
<humphreybc> lol
<jaminday> btw - that bug you just reported on heading styles, page 11
<humphreybc> hey, i wrote the installation chapter, it shouldn't have that many bugs :P
<godbyk> jaminday: yeah? that applies to all the headings. just assign the bug to me.
<jaminday> are you talking about formatting?
<jaminday> ah ok
<godbyk> also assign the lining figures bug to me.
<jaminday> nisshh: can you reassign bug 90 to kevin
<nisshh> sure
<jaminday> and bug 88
<nisshh> to kevin?
<jaminday> yep
<jaminday> they are latex issues
<nisshh> ok done
<jaminday> ok all, ive gotta work tomorrow so heading to bed. I'll try and do a bit more tomorrow night.
<humphreybc> jaminday: awesome
<humphreybc> thanks for your help
<humphreybc> chow!
<jaminday> no probs, talk later!
<humphreybc> i'll head off now too
<humphreybc> night all
<humphreybc> keep it up :)
<jaminday> cheers
<humphreybc> 102 bugs now
<humphreybc> =|
<godbyk> how many are ones I've entered?
<godbyk> am I artificially inflating the bug count? :)
<humphreybc> about 20?
<humphreybc> a bug's a bug, regardless of who entered it :)
<godbyk> page 11 -- done
<humphreybc> and with that
<nisshh> ok who broke the colors when i assign people?
<humphreybc> i'm out!
<humphreybc> weird
<humphreybc> the rule just stopped working
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> weird
<humphreybc> i made them again but it doesn't want to work
<humphreybc> maybe it'll come back...
<humphreybc> k night!
<ubuntujenkins> night
<nisshh> night
<godbyk> page 12 -- done
<nisshh> ok, cya godbyk.
<godbyk> page 13 -- done
<godbyk> page 14 -- done
<godbyk> page 15 -- done
<godbyk> page 16 -- nothing to report
<godbyk> page 17 -- done
<godbyk> page 18 -- done
<godbyk> page 19 -- done
<godbyk> page 20 -- nothing to report
<godbyk> page 21 -- nothing to report
<godbyk> okay.  I think I'll stop there.
<godbyk> 152 bugs so far.  I think humpreybc will get his wish and wake up to over 200 bugs. :)
<ubuntujenkins> we are going to need more people to fix them
<godbyk> most of them are pretty easy fixes, I think.
<godbyk> at least the ones I reported were.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk yesterday i commented out 3 lines in /prefs-hardware/sound so that the manual would compile again. there is an image missing I don't suppose you happen to know who added it?
<godbyk> I added the few example screenshots. (Unless someone else has added more since then.)
<ubuntujenkins> That might be the case see if you have the file in the /pref-hardwar/images folder
<godbyk> there's a folder, but it's empty.
<godbyk> the screenshots should go in ubuntu-manual/screenshots/LANGCODE/
<ubuntujenkins> someone else must have added them then
<ubuntujenkins> there are images folders in each subfolder now
<godbyk> Interesting.
<godbyk> Guess we'll have to look into that.
<godbyk> Well, I'm gonna head to bed.  I'll be back in some number of hours.
<godbyk> I trust you'll hold down the fort in my absence?  :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will do my best but i am in and out all day
<wyh> hi there, I wonder where to download the source code and compile it myself?
<ubuntujenkins> wyh have you used bzr before ?
<ubuntujenkins> wyh I have to go but have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors follow that through and you should be fine
<wyh> ubuntujenkins: sorry, I was away for other things. thank you.
<wyh> ubuntujenkins: actually I didn't know much about Launchpad...
<wyh> I'll look it over.
<xfact> Hello
<xfact> I need help about Ubuntu manual
<xfact> I am searching for a different language Bengali (India, Bangladesh) is that available yet, or if not I would love to help Ubuntu manual to translate in that language
<xfact> Any help I can get?
<Takyoji> (note: this channel may be a bit dead; as I think a handful are in a different timezone or something)
<ubuntujenkins> xfact: I will just find the link
<xfact> ubuntujenkins, Ok, But can yo utell me where to apply (or what to do) for translating Ubuntu manual in my own language?
<xfact> I want to start the work ASAP, cause we have only one month time and the manual is long....
<ubuntujenkins> xfact https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+lang/bn should be your language
<xfact> ubuntujenkins, Thank you very much.... :0
<xfact> :)
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<ubuntujenkins> If anyone has any questions feel free to ask them, if we are not always here we wil answer them when we get back
<xfact> One more question, do we have to end this job before 29th?
<ubuntujenkins> 29th of march?
<xfact> 29th April the day of Lucid stable release
<xfact> I am waiting for the answer...
<ubuntujenkins> that would be ideal, sorry just checking the wiki
<xfact> ok no problem....
<ubuntujenkins> yea 29th would be great
<ubuntujenkins> @all ask any questions, I will answer them when i get back from getting my dinner
<dutchie> o/
<dutchie> wow, planet ubuntu's picked up our testing
<ubuntujenkins> thats good
<titeuf_87> hey ubuntujenkins, do you still have the list of languages with short code?
<titeuf_87> I can't remember where I saved it anymore
<ubuntujenkins> have I have an in comlpete one I will look it up but also look at builds.ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: http://paste.ubuntu.com/399472/
<titeuf_87> aha, this is helpful, thanks!
<titeuf_87> and thanks for that second link too
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<ubuntujenkins> I am going to do some wiki work next week for quickshot
<titeuf_87> I'm going to finish the basic functionality of quickshot, will try to get it done asap
<ubuntujenkins> cool it would be good to get a alpha/beta out before the 1st
<titeuf_87> yeah that should be certainly possible :)
<titeuf_87> not a lot missing anymore really
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<ubuntujenkins> I will do the sample screenshots tomorrow, I am having problems changeing the live cd username I found one post that implied it worked but it doesn't work that way any more
<titeuf_87> does it have to be changed?
<ubuntujenkins> well it would be easyier if it could be ,c an you create a new user whilst in the live cd?
<ubuntujenkins> if so we can do a preinstall of quickshot and the languages needed
<titeuf_87> no idea, but the live cd runs a default setup anyway, so we can just use quickshot as the default user
<ubuntujenkins> yes but thats called ubuntu in the top right. I have a few things to add on release, detection if the user is using lucid
<ubuntujenkins> I can't remember the other one
<titeuf_87> How do you plan to distribute the iso? Just as a big file everyone can download?
<ubuntujenkins> Big file on the wiki was my thought, I will try and build one regulary so that it is up to date
<Red_HamsterX> Need anything from me, titeuf_87? I not, I'll write a basic index page for the server to make exporting a little more intuitive.
<Red_HamsterX> If not*
<titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, not right now, but if I'll have a question I'll be sure to let you know
<dutchie> MUSIC STORE HAS ARRIVED
<Red_HamsterX> Okay. I'll be around for a while, working on some other stuff.
<Red_HamsterX> Just highlight me and I should notice in a few minutes.
<titeuf_87> ok
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: its a bit slow
<dutchie> it's basically a website embedded into RB aiui
<ubuntujenkins> i know but the other stores are quiker
<dutchie> hasn't been a problem for me
<dutchie> hadn't really noticed speed one way or the other
<ubuntujenkins> strange i should probably do an update
<Daker> hi @all
<dutchie> hi Daker
<godbyk-android> Hey Daker. will you be around for a bit?
<godbyk-android> I'm going to shower then be back.
<Daker> ye
<Daker> p
<ubuntujenkins> hello Daker
<godbyk-android> I want to make sure I haven't screwed up  your website code too much. :-)
<Daker> hi ubuntujenkins
<Daker> oki godbyk-android
<Daker> be back
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: how do i set up a flag for quickshot like the "quickshot run -r"
<titeuf_87> near the bottom of bin/quickshot add something like: parser.add_option("-r", "--remove", action="store_true", dest="remove", help="Remove quickshot user")
<titeuf_87> then you can access that from anywhere with options.remove (or the name you've chosen)
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks i will have a play
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87 how can you call windows form options i have added http://paste.ubuntu.com/399527/ but i get  an error shown at the bottom.
<titeuf_87> That's because you're not calling this from the window class. You should move this over to the finish_initializing function
<titeuf_87> also, is this to show a different message when you're logged in as the quickshot user?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<ubuntujenkins> also trying to under stand more
<godbyk> Okay, I'm back now.
<titeuf_87> when quickshot is run it detects the username of the user running it, and if it's the quickshot user then the loggedIn function is called
<ubuntujenkins> but that is called on the click of the first next button.
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins. How's it going?
<titeuf_87> right
<ubuntujenkins> I am good, its been quite in here we have over 217 bugs last time i checked
<titeuf_87> you could check again at the end of finish_initializing: if os.environ["USER"] == "quickshot": ...set label text...
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: I would like the first screen to be a congrats you will soon be ready to take screenshots message
<ubuntujenkins> are that sounds good i will have aplay again
<ubuntujenkins> thnaks
<titeuf_87> no problem, let me know if it doesn't work or you have more problems :)
<daker> back
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: it works :-)
<titeuf_87> nice!
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: We're up to 254 bugs now.
<ubuntujenkins> ouch thats a lot good though
<godbyk> How's quickshot coming along?  Any major snags?
<ubuntujenkins> erm not as far as I know
<titeuf_87> godbyk, it should be able to launch an application now, maximize it, take a screenshot and upload it
<godbyk> titeuf_87: sweet!
<godbyk> if you guys need me to set up stuff at screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org, let me know.
<titeuf_87> So far I'm still using Red_HamsterX's test server, may want to ask him about what needs to be done server-side to make it work
<Red_HamsterX> It's just a simple symlink right now.
<Red_HamsterX> I've symlinked the working capy from bzr into a web-acessible location.
<Red_HamsterX> copy*
<Red_HamsterX> And that's all.
<Red_HamsterX> 'bzr pull' updates everything.
<godbyk> Sounds easy enough.
<godbyk> which dir is symlinked?
<ubuntujenkins> this apears bland what can i add to it http://imagebin.org/89943
<Red_HamsterX> server/screencaps -> ~/public_html/screencaps
<Red_HamsterX> You could symlink the contents under a virtual vost without issue.
<godbyk> Can we just skip that screen if it's not doing anything?
<Red_HamsterX> The only catch will be adding authentication, since we'd want that outside of bzr for obvious reasons.
<Red_HamsterX> Unless we use mcrypt or something.
<Red_HamsterX> Or maybe sha.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: like this? http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> what's the auth talk about?
<Red_HamsterX> Just to prevent someone from flooding the server.
<Red_HamsterX> Or from uploading questionable content.
<godbyk> Ah, I see.
<Red_HamsterX> A simple key (or set of keys) we could give out to anyone helping.
<Red_HamsterX> What OS are you running?
<godbyk> Do you mean a key that quickshot and the server share?
<Red_HamsterX> Everything seems to be working fine, except for the bzr query.
<godbyk> It's running Linux (Debian, I think).
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah. A simple key like that.
<godbyk> as long as the user doesn't have to deal with the key -- i.e., it's in the config file or something.
<Red_HamsterX> Key goes into a file in config/ and the user puts it in Quickshot somehow.
<Red_HamsterX> Or that.
<Red_HamsterX> I dunno how it'll work.
<Red_HamsterX> It's not necessary right now anyway.
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> we can deal with that later.
<Red_HamsterX> Is it a VPS or a more restrictive environment?
<Red_HamsterX> If it's a vps, just install bzr with apt and everything should be good.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll work on writing a more intuitive export proces this evening.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: the screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org site should auto-update every 30 minutes.
<godbyk> though the way it's set now, it'll wipe anything uploaded to that dir
<godbyk> if screenshots get uploaded under a subdir there, then I'll have to recode the cronjob a bit.
<godbyk> It's a shared server.
<godbyk> I have bzr installed.
<Red_HamsterX> Ah... Yeah, they go into data/.
<titeuf_87> the screenshots end up in the data directory
<godbyk> I don't get to use apt (no root access).
<godbyk> ok
<godbyk> let me see if I can fix something then.
<Red_HamsterX> If bzr's installed, then it's not working right...
<godbyk> it's not in the path, I don't think.
<godbyk> where is it calling bzr?
<godbyk> ah, it is in the path..
<Red_HamsterX> /usr/bin/env bzr, called in get_status.php
<godbyk> but the php file may not inherit the environment variables I set in .bashrc or _profile or whatever.
<Red_HamsterX> Can you see if the webserver's user can see bzr from env?
<Red_HamsterX> If not, I can just hardcode the path.
<Red_HamsterX> It's in /usr/bin under Ubuntu.
<Red_HamsterX> Probably the same under Debian.
<godbyk> Can you tell me what error msg you're getting?
<Red_HamsterX> (Though I haven't had cause to install it on my Debian systems)
<Red_HamsterX> No, I cannot.
<godbyk> It's installed in my ~/local/bin dir.
<Red_HamsterX> To simplify parsing, I just have the PHP script drop the bzr-query from its output if the command fails for any reason.
<Red_HamsterX> Your error log should tell you, though.
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm...
<Red_HamsterX> I could do an exists() check on the system location, then use ~/local/bin before aborting...
<humphreybc> 256 BUG REPORTS.!?!?!?
<Red_HamsterX> Is that bad?
<ubuntujenkins> I KNOW ITS LOADS
<humphreybc> SWFKL2NRIUP2P=F}"s
<humphreybc> WE HAVE LIKE 8 DAYS TO FIX THESE
<ubuntujenkins> I can help if you like
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: call the file again.
<godbyk> I'm tailing the http error log
<Red_HamsterX> Done.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to implement the workaround, though.
<godbyk> nothing in the http error log
<godbyk> the only error I see in the http error log (aside from the missing favicon) is: "client denied by server configuration: /home/godbyk/screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/config/"
<Red_HamsterX> So the bzr binary is in /home/godbyk/local/bin/?
<Red_HamsterX> config/ is protected by .htaccess.
<Red_HamsterX> That's probably what caused the error.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: yes.
<godbyk> $ which bzr
<godbyk> /home/godbyk/local/bin/bzr
<godbyk> gotcha
<Red_HamsterX> I just tried loading it twice to make sure.
<Red_HamsterX> Pushing a workaround...
<Red_HamsterX> Done.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: pulled
<Red_HamsterX> Still doesn't seem to be working...
<Red_HamsterX> does it auto-pull?
<Red_HamsterX> Can you put the following in get_status.php, on line 25, just before the exec() call?
<Red_HamsterX> echo $bzr_path.' ls -qR '.$_BZR_SCREENCAP_BASE.escapeshellarg($_REQUEST['language']);
<Red_HamsterX> I want to see exactly what it's trying to call.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: It's set to auto-pull every 30 minutes at the top and bottom of the hour
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: done
<Red_HamsterX> Okay. I can work with that timeframe pretty easily.
<godbyk> I can disable the auto-pull for now, too.
<godbyk> In fact, I'll do that.
<godbyk> since it was killing me the other day when I was fiddling with the website. :)
<godbyk> okay, disabled auto-pull for now
<Red_HamsterX> /home/godbyk/local/bin/bzr ls -qR lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/'fr'
<Red_HamsterX> That's what it says it's running...
<Red_HamsterX> If you put that into a shell, does it work?
<Red_HamsterX> You should see, after a few seconds, a list of chapter directories.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm expecting some sort of error to be reported almost immediately, though.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: $ /home/godbyk/local/bin/bzr ls -qR lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/'en'
<godbyk> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/".
<Red_HamsterX> We don't have an 'en' branch.
<Red_HamsterX> (Which is why I chose fr)
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: $ /home/godbyk/local/bin/bzr ls -qR lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/'fr'
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-1/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-10/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-2/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-3/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-4/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-5/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-6/
<Red_HamsterX> Bleh.
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-7/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-8/
<godbyk> lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr/chapter-9/
<Red_HamsterX> So it's working fine...
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_status.php?language=fr
<Red_HamsterX> That's what it should generate.
<Red_HamsterX> The --END FINAL signifies that bzr found data.
<Red_HamsterX> (It's one entry per line. I just didn't bother setting it to text/plain)
<godbyk> hmm..
<godbyk> I'm trying to see if php will tell us the output to STDERR
<Red_HamsterX> The single quotes are just a bash-escape, to prevent arbitrary execution of additional commands or stuff like that.
<Red_HamsterX> Well, we could change the comamnd to redirect STDERR to STDOUT and then echo $output...
<godbyk> lemme do that
<Red_HamsterX> 2>&1
<Red_HamsterX> It should work in PHP.
<Red_HamsterX> Since I think the entire command is processed by the shell before pipes are set up.
<humphreybc> wiatt whtf
<humphreybc> why am I now on rev 530 of the manual?
<humphreybc> have we gone backwards?
<godbyk> Aha!
<godbyk>     [0] => bzr: ERROR: Couldn't import bzrlib and dependencies.
<godbyk>     [1] => Please check the directory containing bzrlib is on your PYTHONPATH.
<godbyk>     [2] =>
<godbyk>     [3] => Traceback (most recent call last):
<godbyk>     [4] =>   File "/home/godbyk/local/bin/bzr", line 107, in ?
<godbyk>     [5] =>     import bzrlib
<godbyk>     [6] => ImportError: No module named bzrlib
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> Yes, that could definitely do it.
<humphreybc> what's happened to the branch??
<godbyk> humphreybc: ?
<humphreybc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/changes
<humphreybc> latest revision is 530
<humphreybc> last night it was 554
<humphreybc> remember?
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe someone merged the newer changed with one of their commits.
<humphreybc> check the spreadsheet, everyone is checking bugs on 554/555
<Red_HamsterX> changes(
<Red_HamsterX> Reducing them all to one node.
<ubuntujenkins> I am looking it doesn't build which i can fix i think it has been merged
<godbyk> That is odd.
<godbyk> bzr frightens and confuses me!
<humphreybc> we've lost 50 commits?
<godbyk> ;-)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: you know i was telling you about the line calling screenshots it has been uncommented again
<humphreybc> it was dutchie who broke it!
<ubuntujenkins> is sayantandas here?
<humphreybc> there are no commits on record between the 18th and the 21st March
<Red_HamsterX> bzr fightens and confuses me, too.
<humphreybc> does that mean we lost three days worth of commits?
<Red_HamsterX> DVCS in general does that.
<Red_HamsterX> It means the merge superseded everything.
<Red_HamsterX> It may include all of those changes.
<humphreybc> crap
<humphreybc> so now all the testers are testing something that's older than our branch, but 24 revisions ahead?!
<Red_HamsterX> I merged over someone's changes in Quickshot a few days ago, but I think I was able to patch everything back in.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: great.
<ubuntujenkins> I am fixing with a note not to uncomment
<godbyk> humphreybc: do you want to skim through the bzr logs and see what's been changed and if we're still okay or if things are borked?
<dutchie> what?
<ubuntujenkins> that was mine Red_HamsterX ;-) you did it fine
<dutchie> what did I break?
<Red_HamsterX> Does anyone have a 555 working copy?
<humphreybc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/changes
<humphreybc> dutchie, the branch had gone back about 20 revisions
<dutchie> since when?
<humphreybc> yesterday it was up to about 560 odd
<Red_HamsterX> If so, you can probably diff it and apply a patch.
<dutchie> hmm
<humphreybc> we released rev 554 to the testers
<Red_HamsterX> Sorry, ubuntujenkins. D:
<humphreybc> and that's what everyone is testing on
<godbyk> I've got a copy of this: $ bzr revision-info
<godbyk> 555 humphreybc@gmail.com-20100322032628-x7u14y55m6ap1uib
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: no problem it still works
<humphreybc> but now we're back to 530 somehow
<daker> humphreybc, hi :)
 * dutchie hasn't done anything bzr related for a while
<dutchie> $ bzr revno
<dutchie> 535
<humphreybc> if you check the dates, it looks like there has been a gap for 2 days, nothing committed on the 19th or 20th
<humphreybc> wtf
<humphreybc> dutchie: you have 535?
<dutchie> yep
<humphreybc> okay i'm confused
<humphreybc> does this mean we lost two days of work somehow?
<godbyk> we were at 565 and then Sayantan pushed 528-530.
<humphreybc> :\
<ubuntujenkins> I had a felling Ayantan caused it
<godbyk> humphreybc: are you subscribed to the bzr log emails?
<humphreybc> godbyk, yea
<dutchie> hang on, I've got a subscription to the RSS feed
<godbyk> looks like 529 was the big merge.
<humphreybc> yeah so we got up to 565
<humphreybc> where jamin pushed all his changes
<dutchie> it lists 561-565, then goes back to 506
<humphreybc> fixed a tonne of bugs from the spreadsheet
<humphreybc> crap
<dutchie> ask the folks in #bzr what's going on?
<Red_HamsterX> humphreybc, it's possible that the bugs are still fixed. The number-change may not reflect a progress-change.
<Red_HamsterX> Don't panic just yet.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> can someone please check
<humphreybc> take a look at the spreadsheet
<humphreybc> find a bug that's marked fixed by jamin
<humphreybc> see if it's actually fixed
<ubuntujenkins> bzr push has been done the manual will compile again
 * ubuntujenkins looks
<dutchie> uh oh, looks like the errors are still there
<Red_HamsterX> Looks like my cron pulled a post-merge update...
<Red_HamsterX> ...so I can't provide a diff. :(
<humphreybc> crap
<humphreybc> can we revert to jamin's last push. 565?
<humphreybc> run bzr log -n0
<ubuntujenkins> row 62 is fixed
<Red_HamsterX> 529 mentions some commits by jaminday...
<humphreybc> wait
<humphreybc> run bzr log -n0
<humphreybc> have a look at rev 525
<humphreybc> there are a shitload of *sub* revisions
 * godbyk is scared to touch anything now. :)
<Red_HamsterX> For 525? No, there aren't.
<dutchie> wow, this is a *big* pull
<humphreybc> wait
<Red_HamsterX> For 529, yes...
<humphreybc> eyah
<humphreybc> but if you look at
<humphreybc> revno: 525.4.25
<humphreybc> jamin's last push
<humphreybc> was rev 565
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, actually, there are a lot of 525-subs in 527.
<Red_HamsterX> Many by jaminday.
 * dutchie prefers git ;)
<Red_HamsterX> So maybe a lot of the fixes were preserved.
 * Red_HamsterX prefers Subversion.
<Red_HamsterX> branch and tag. =P
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/399564/
<ubuntujenkins> cjohnston: what revison is you version of the manual on?
 * godbyk at least groks svn.  DVCSs seem a lot more complicated.
<dutchie> bzr confuses me
<dutchie> git took a while to get my head around properly, but it seems founded on a much sounder model than bzr
<cjohnston> huh?
<Red_HamsterX> I suppose all we can do is ask jaminday to quickly check the status of 530...
 * dutchie is now on rev 531
<Red_HamsterX> git makes sense.
<humphreybc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/revision/529
<ubuntujenkins> cjohnston what bzr revison are you on?
<humphreybc> look at the files removed/modified
<ubuntujenkins> don't update it yet
 * cjohnston isnt doing anything with manual yety
<cjohnston> yet
<Red_HamsterX> What version have you pulled?
<humphreybc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/changes/525.4.25
<ubuntujenkins> cjohnston: no problem we just could do with an older version if someone has one
<cjohnston> you can get it all from LP
<cjohnston> I have to head off to my ubuntu hour... ill be back online when I get there
<dutchie> cjohnston: we've had a bit of a scare, with a load of revisions apparently disappearing
<Red_HamsterX> cjohnston, there was a branch merge and we're trying to make sure everything is accounted for.
<Red_HamsterX> If you have a pull from the past couple of days, please on't update it yet.
<humphreybc> i think we might be okay
<humphreybc> someone check if megan fox is still in the prologue?
<humphreybc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/changes/525.4.25
 * dutchie wonders if there is a way to make it not have to compile the manual 15000 times every time
<Red_HamsterX> I think so, too, based on the sub-commits.
<Red_HamsterX> Comppiling postscript is fun, though~
<dutchie> humphreybc: she is in my 535 version
<humphreybc> really?
<humphreybc> megan isn't in my 530 one
<humphreybc> so your 535 one is older than my 530 one
<ubuntujenkins> not in mine either
<humphreybc> which means that the testers have an older version, but a newer revision number.
<humphreybc> so i think our changes are fine
<dutchie> http://media.joshh.co.uk/megan.png
<godbyk> dutchie: probably, but we have run it at least 3-4 times with makeglossaries and makeindex interspersed to get everything to come out right.
<humphreybc> just the rev count was fucked when there was a big merge
<humphreybc> um okay
<ubuntujenkins> why was she ever there?
<humphreybc> for times like this :P
<humphreybc> haha
<dutchie> godbyk: another thing for your todo list ;)
<dutchie> are we sorted then?
<humphreybc> so when we update the testers PDF, they'll all be like WTF cos the rev number has gone down
<dutchie> (and it wasn't my fault :P)
<humphreybc> but we'll have to somehow tell them that they now have a newer version...
<humphreybc> sigh
<Red_HamsterX> I think we should wait for this to die down before worrying about PYTHONPATH, godbyk. =P
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: apparently. :)
<godbyk> I'll eat lunch in the meantime.
<humphreybc> either that, or we could push 40 times in the next few hours before we update the translations stuff
 * dutchie returns to maths
<godbyk> (good excuse to take a break)
 * Red_HamsterX returns to Python issue-tracker stuff.
<humphreybc> and whoever Sayantan is needs to be banned from bzr
<Red_HamsterX> That seems a bit harsh. :(
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> I still fail at bzr.
<ubuntujenkins> he needs a talking to
<ubuntujenkins> all you ahev to do is a pull before a commit
<Red_HamsterX> Pull beore you commit?
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<Red_HamsterX> It's a hard habit to break when coming from centralised VCS, though.
<Red_HamsterX> Pull before developing anything new...
<ubuntujenkins> I messed up bzr on my first use, I e-mailed the person whos commit I wrote over in a right panik
<ubuntujenkins> :-P
<Red_HamsterX> I think I have four such offenses in Quickshot.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: if you only commit when you upload and always do a pull before you will be fine
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, that's what I'm doing now.
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<Red_HamsterX> But I'm so used to svn complaining during the commit process that I've learned to use it as a crutch for speed's sake.
<ubuntujenkins> is my name showing in the spread sheet any one? if not how do i make it show?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: fair enough
<Red_HamsterX> Update before writing code, write code, commit, walk away.
<dutchie> hope nobody else does the same while code is being written...
<Red_HamsterX> Well, yes, but if they do, it'll get caught during the commit.
<Red_HamsterX> Instead of branches diverging.
<dutchie> "Merging that Just Works truly can change how developers work together."
 * humphreybc wonders if we need to make our team/branch restricted
<dutchie> from the bzr docs page
<dutchie> right, maths time
<dutchie> stop distracting me
<daker> humphreybc, +1
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: do you know if jamin wants any help fixing bugs?
<humphreybc> hey so daker, you all good with the website? did josh pass the message on?
<daker> josh =? dutchie
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: not sure, you could probably go through and help him fix small ones like spelling mistakes/missing commas and what not
<humphreybc> josh = dutchie
<daker> yeah
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: perhaps it would be better if you assign all the new bugs to people
<humphreybc> from 111 onwards they're not assigned
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I don't mind what i do but  can't write to the spreedsheet
<humphreybc> oh can you not?
<ubuntujenkins> last time i checked you needed a @ubuntu-manual.org e-mail
<humphreybc> godbyk, can you set up Luke with an @ubuntu-manual.org email please
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<godbyk> humphreybc: Give me his full name and email address.
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: ^^
<ubuntujenkins> Luke Jennings ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com
 * daker wants a @ubuntu-manual.org e-mail to :)
<humphreybc> godbyk, while you're at it, give daker one as well :)
<godbyk> gimme his details
<humphreybc> daker ^^
<daker> Adnane Belmadiaf adnane002@gmail.com
<humphreybc> hey daker did you see the new contributions mockup I did?
<humphreybc> (presuming it wasn't overwritten
<daker> not yet :s
<humphreybc> yay it's still there
<humphreybc> in the branch, website/source/contributors.png
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> oh and daker, all the text is now finalized, I've changed some of it
<humphreybc> I just changed it in the mockups
<daker> oki humphreybc
<godbyk> both accounts are created now
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: if the bug is just grammer does it matter who i assign the bugs to just do it evenly?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
<humphreybc> also, i was just thinking, when you see the contributors page you'll see the top section with the key people like me, Kevin, Jamin etc. Could you make each name a hyperlink with their email address, so like Jamin's name would be a hyperlink "mailto:jamin@ubuntu-manual.org"
<daker> thanks godbyk :)
<humphreybc> etc
<godbyk> assign all the bugs for one chapter to one person.  that way it reduces the potential conflicts we'll have.
<ubuntujenkins> makes sense
<humphreybc> yeah, so basically jamin is doing prologue - 3
<humphreybc> i'm doing 4,5 and 6
<humphreybc> Bryan is doing 7, 8 and 9
<humphreybc> I think that's how it is
<ubuntujenkins> cool on it now
<humphreybc> sweet
<humphreybc> there is meant to be a rule that automatically colour codes the boxes
<humphreybc> but it's not happening for some reason
<humphreybc> no idea why
<humphreybc> so you'll just have to do it manually
<godbyk> is bzr sorted now?
<humphreybc> i think so
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<humphreybc> godbyk, did you set up the auto update thing?
<godbyk> humphreybc: not yet.
<godbyk> have any edits been committed yet?
<ubuntujenkins> can someone link me the docs login page please
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: docs.ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> its not showing in the list
<humphreybc> http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<godbyk> why isn't it showing in the list?
<godbyk> it's set to allow all ubuntu-manual.org users to edit it
<humphreybc> no idea
<ubuntujenkins> it does now must be a accout set up thing
<humphreybc> there should be no excuse for not pulling before pushing now, i've emailed the list, facebook, twitter and contacted that user directly
<daker> humphreybc, the website works very well in Chrome, Opera, FF, IE6,7 and 8, Safari
<humphreybc> daker, yeah i saw that, awesome work
<humphreybc> it's looking great :)
<godbyk> shouldn't it be 'pull before commit'?
<humphreybc> huh?
<humphreybc> did i cock it up?
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> yeah it should be
<humphreybc> but whatever
 * humphreybc has too much stuff on to worry about details 
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> pff.. it's *all* about the details. :)
<humphreybc> i know i know
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I've added "PYTHONPATH=my_pythonpath" to the beginning of the exec line.  we should add that as a var to the config file along with the bzr path location.
<ubuntujenkins> are well night all o/
<humphreybc> hey godbyk, can you give us some fun statistics on how many people have downloaded ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf?
<humphreybc> and how many hits we've had at ubuntu-manual.org ?
<godbyk> one sec.
<godbyk> won't have any real stats until tomorrow after the stats programs run.
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> that's all good then
<godbyk> any numbers I gave you now would be useless.
<humphreybc> sweet
<humphreybc> looking forward to seeing some numbers
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> i'm going to stick my neck out here and say that UMP brings a whole new level of epicness to Ubuntu projects
<humphreybc> everything we seem to do is highly ambitious and completed in an incredibly short time frame
<humphreybc> like fixing potentially thousands of bugs in 7 days
<dutchie> wow, that maths paper was fun
<dutchie> now for more maths
<humphreybc> lol
 * daker will release a beta version of the website the 31 march
<humphreybc> daker = awesome
<humphreybc> godbyk, daker, can we still keep using test.ubuntu-manual.org while we have the other website running like it is at the moment?
<godbyk> humphreybc: they're pulling from the same place right now.
<godbyk> so unless someone reorganizes stuff, no
<humphreybc> so we'd have our final website, which is being tested at test.ubuntu-manual and then we have our temporary countdown/bug reporting website for this bug reporting stuff
<godbyk> (and if you do go about reorganizing things you have to talk to me first, or you'll break the live site)
<humphreybc> either that or daker integrates the bug reporting form into his final website
<daker> i can
<godbyk> the live site is the final site.
<humphreybc> perhaps daker copies everything in daker to daker-test and works on his site from there
<godbyk> I just hid the nav options for pages that aren't complete yet.
<humphreybc> okay cool
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> All i'm trying to avoid is testers seeing our website change all the time as daker changes stuff
<godbyk> you can still access the pages directly.
<humphreybc> okay that's cool
<godbyk> likt http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_status.php?language=fr
<daker> i'll copie daker to daker-test ?
<godbyk> er
<godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?contributors
<godbyk> if you know where to look
<humphreybc> so daker can work on the home page with the fancy javascript transition thing and no one will see it
<godbyk> uh
<godbyk> sure.
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> stop confusing me! :)
<humphreybc> all i want to do is make sure that a) the current site that people are using for reporting forms stays that way and is stable, and b) daker gets a place to test his website, where no one else can see
<humphreybc> so in theory we want ubuntu-manual.org to stay how it is, but test.ubuntu-manual.org to be pointing at a different folder in the branch, ie, daker-test, where he can test out the new home page/contributors pages and stuff with the links intact
<humphreybc> does that make sense?
<daker> godbyk, one minute
 * humphreybc thinks that our manual might be more popular and highly anticipated than lucid itself
<humphreybc> "Enrique RaimundoÂ I just can't wait!!! 60% Ubuntu manual progress!!!"
<dutchie> that'd be pushing it I think humphreybc
<humphreybc> lol
<dutchie> the music store is ludicrously cool
<humphreybc> true
<dutchie> as is the deep integration of mail/microblogging/chat
<humphreybc> would be kinda funny if ubuntu-manual.org got more hits on the 29th than ubuntu.com
<humphreybc> not going to happen but
<humphreybc> dreams are free
 * daker is doing a hundreds things at the same time
<godbyk> if you want test.ubuntu-manual.org to differ from ubuntu-manual.org, then they should be pointing to two separate directories, yes.
<humphreybc> okay, so let's copy what's in daker to daker-test
<humphreybc> leave daker as it is
<daker> humphreybc, +1
<humphreybc> point test.ubuntu-manual.org at daker-test
<humphreybc> daker can work on his beta release of the final website in daker-test, with the nav buttons restored, no countdown timer and what not
<humphreybc> daker, because we're going to be using the bug form after this week anyway, you could build support for it into your final website
<humphreybc> and daker, if you could fix the integration of the form confirmation dialog, that would be cool
<humphreybc> (fill out the bug form and hit submit, you'll see what I mean)
<daker> one sec
<godbyk> what integration?
<humphreybc> the confirmation box where it says "Thanks for reporting the bug, we'll fix it as soon as we can."
<godbyk> what about it?
<humphreybc> you can see how it's just sort of floating in the content area of the website
<humphreybc> (maybe it's just in chrome)
<godbyk> floating?
<godbyk> the whole form is in an <iframe>
 * humphreybc takes screenshot
<godbyk> so the height has to be set explicitly
<godbyk> if that's what you're complaining about.
<daker> godbyk, !!
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/thing.png
<daker> open includes/router.php
<godbyk> daker: what about router.php?
<humphreybc> godbyk, not exactly the end of the world, but something that could be fixed for the final website
<daker> and comment
<daker> case 'contributors':
<daker> 72 		
<daker> 				$file = 'pages/contributors.php';
<daker> 73 		
<daker> 				$class[4]='class="selected"';
<daker> 74 		
<daker> 				break;
<godbyk> yes
<godbyk> ?
<humphreybc> right i have to head off
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, I agree about adding that as a config parameter. I'll refator some constants into an appropriate file in the next revision.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: 'kay.
<humphreybc> ttyl guys, keep triaging and fixing those bugs!
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> i'll knock off as many of mine as I can tonight
<godbyk> daker?
<daker> <godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?contributors
<daker> <godbyk> if you know where to look
<daker> open includes/router.php
<daker> and the case 'contributors':
<daker> this $file = 'pages/contributors.php';
<godbyk> right.  I don't mind that you can access ?contributors by entering in the url explicitly.
<daker> this $class[4]='class="selected"';
<godbyk> I was letting humpreybc know that he could if he wanted to.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> also it might be easier to read parts of the code if the $class array used keys instead of indexes.
<godbyk> so $class['contributors'] = "class=\"selected\"";
<godbyk> then use $class['contributors'] in the structure.php file
<daker> right
<godbyk> (instead of the numbers which you have to look up all the time)
<daker> yeah
<daker> godbyk, the url rewriting is enabled on the server ?
<godbyk> daker: mod_rewrite is supposed. I don't know if it's enabled by default.
<godbyk> where do you want to use it?
<godbyk> you can create a .htaccess file to set up the rules you want.
<daker> is already created
<daker> ex: http://ubuntu-manual.org/contributors
<daker> mor usefull for SEO
<daker> http://ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/10.04/fr
<daker> and so
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, config/local_variables.php can now be used to set the bzr-binary stuff and PYTHONPATH. Please revert changes to get_status.php, pull, and update config/local_variables.php accordingly. (When you have time)
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: 'kay. one sec.
 * dutchie -> bed
<dutchie> night all
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: okay, I've set that var.
<godbyk> though if I don't commit the setting, we'll lose it during an auto-update.
<godbyk> g'night, dutchie
<Red_HamsterX> Why not just auto-pull instead of wiping it each time?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: right now I do bzr pull --overwrite -q
<godbyk> I could drop the --verwrite
<godbyk> --overwrite, rather
<Red_HamsterX> That would probably be best. I'm sure I can remember any local changes you've had to make.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-23
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Does the screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org site work as expected now?
<Red_HamsterX> Nope. Seems to be failing at bzr again...
<godbyk> lemme look
<godbyk>  Red_HamsterX try again
<godbyk> I think the env command ignores the environment variables or something.
<godbyk> I set the $bzr_line explicitly to /home/godbyk/local/bin/bzr
<Red_HamsterX> Seems to bbe working now.
<Red_HamsterX> Yay. :)
<daker> :)
<Red_HamsterX> :) begets :)
<Odd-rationale> Is there anyway to view existing bug reports on the manual? Thanks!
<godbyk> Odd-rationale: You can view them here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en
<Odd-rationale> godbyk: thank you!
<Odd-rationale> Also, when we specify a page number, do we use the page number of the book page or the page number of the pdf page?
<godbyk> Odd-rationale: I would go with the printed page number in the PDF
<Odd-rationale> godbyk: you mean the number printed on the page. not the actual pdf page number (which counts the cover page as 1)
<godbyk> Odd-rationale: Correct.
<Odd-rationale> Have you considered using Launchpad and bzr for the bug reporting?
<Odd-rationale> The spreadsheet does not seem like it could scale very well...
<godbyk> Odd-rationale: We wanted to try to reduce the barriers to reporting bugs.
<godbyk> Using launchpad requires having a launchpad login, filling out a bug report that has no structure and then someone has to triage it and flag it a dozen different ways.
<godbyk> Using the custom form and spreadsheet allows us to ask specific questions that help us deal with the bugs more quickly.
<godbyk> And makes it easier for the bug reporter to give us the info we require on the first try (instead of the back-and-forth you see in many launchpad bug reports).
<Odd-rationale> I see. Well that makes sense in some ways. But it is rather difficult to see if a bug has already been reported, or to comment on someone else's bug report.
<godbyk> Odd-rationale: That's true. But it's fairly easy for us to triage the bugs and flag the duplicates.  And most of the bugs are 'missing comma' or 'misspelled word' that don't require conversation.
<godbyk> Odd-rationale: If you have a larger bug that you'd like to track and have a conversation about, you're welcome to report it against the ubuntu-manual project in launchpad, however.
<Odd-rationale> godbyk: ok. well I was searching the bug reports to make sure I didn't post a duplicate, and I found a similar one and wanted to comment on it...
<godbyk> Ah, never fear.  You don't have to spend time checking for dupes. We'll take care of it on our end as we make edits.
<Odd-rationale> ok. Thanks for the help!
<godbyk> Odd-rationale: On the contrary -- thanks for *your* help! :)
<daker> godbyk, one question
<daker> $ bzr launchpad-login your-id
<godbyk> daker: fire away
<daker> you-id ?
<godbyk> 'your-id' should be your launchpad login id.
<daker> my username ?
<godbyk> yes
<daker> my username =? my email
<godbyk> nope, just your username
<godbyk> when you log in to launchpad, click on your name in the upper-right corner
<daker> https://launchpad.net/~adnane002
<godbyk> it'll take you to an address like: http://launchpad.net/~username
<daker> oki
<godbyk> so adnane002 is your username
<daker> oki
<daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main
<daker> it look like he doesn't know me
<godbyk> what does 'bzr whoami' say?
<daker> Daker <daker@daker-desktop>
<godbyk> did you set up an ssh key in your launchpad profile?
<daker> yes
<godbyk> you should be set then.
<daker> https://launchpad.net/%7Eadnane002/+sshkeys
<humphreybc> hi children, i'm back
<daker> hi
<daker> godbyk, what's the problem ?
<godbyk> daker: I'm not sure.  was launchpad-login set before you committed?
<daker> yes
<daker> humphreybc, !!
<daker> <daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main
<daker> <daker> it look like he doesn't know me
<godbyk> I'm out of ideas, then.  Sorry.
<humphreybc> huh who what where when what
<daker> humphreybc, Daker <daker@daker-desktop>, lp doesn't give a link to my profil
<humphreybc> you need to run bzr whoami
<daker> daker@daker-desktop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr whoami
<daker> Daker <daker@daker-desktop>
<humphreybc> odd
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> you need that to be your launchpad email address
<humphreybc> so whatever email you signed up to launchpad with
<daker> odd
 * humphreybc  needs a name for a set of questions we ask each week in a weekly interview thing
 * daker fixed the problem
<daker> $ bzr whoami "Adnane Belmadiaf <adnane002@gmail.com>"
<humphreybc> 317 bug reports...
<daker> hohoho
<humphreybc> srsly
<humphreybc> r u srslst?!
<humphreybc> lool
<daker> your time zone humphreybc ?
<humphreybc> +13
 * humphreybc is pulling the latest manual revision, time to decimate some bugs
<daker> godbyk, it takes time test.ubuntu-manual.org to be sync ?
<godbyk> daker: I've turned off the sync until after the bzr stuff is fixed.
<godbyk> if it's fixed, I can turn it back on.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> daker: when it is syncing, it updates every 30 minutes, though.
<daker> thanks
<humphreybc> this is really hard to find where the bugs are because the page numbers are all out after that big bzr problem
<humphreybc> godbyk could you please update the ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf asap so that bug reporters aren't getting page numbers wrong
<humphreybc> because everything is different now
<humphreybc> omg who wrote the scanning section
<humphreybc> =|
<godbyk> <sigh> the page numbers aren't *wrong*, you just have to look at the same revision as the bug reporters are.  handily, there's a link on the front page of our site where you can download a copy. :-)
<godbyk> I'll upload a new revision if you give me the all-clear on the bzr stuff being okay.
<humphreybc> i think the bzr stuff is okay now
<godbyk> but you should also consider than then we will have to look at two versions of the manual to confirm/fix bugs instead of just one.
<godbyk> (though it will help reduce dupes)
<humphreybc> we'll need to otherwise we'll have everyone reporting the same bugs in the prologue
 * humphreybc thinks this could turn into a right mess
<godbyk> have bug fixes been made and committed/pushed to bzr? or are they still sitting on someone's hard drive?
<humphreybc> hang on
<humphreybc> i'll push in a sec
<humphreybc> but jamin's pushed his
<humphreybc> bryan has changed anything yet
<godbyk> basically: if the bug is flagged as fixed in the spreadsheet, it needs to be fixed in whatever version I pull from bzr.
<humphreybc> i'm committing and pushing now, hold up
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> so we need to push regularly
<godbyk> yes. and be careful not to step on each others' toes.
<godbyk> And keep an eye on Sayantan's commits. ;-)
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> there are a couple bugs in his that I'm gonna fix real quick when you're done.
<humphreybc> okay i just pushed up to 539
<godbyk> that revision number may confuse people, but oh well.
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> maybe we should put a halt on people committing this week except for those who have been assigned specific bugs or daker working on the website.
<humphreybc> yeah maybe
<godbyk> Apparently someone (*cough*Sayantan*cough*) didn't read about how to insert screenshots properly.  They left off the captions, so instead, it'll use the first letter of the next sentence as the caption.
<godbyk> Fixing now.
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> far out
<godbyk> And when I get done with that, I'm gonna send an email to the list about common errors that I keep seeing.
<humphreybc> awesome
<godbyk> I don't want to file a bug for each and every quotation mark that's wrong.
<godbyk> I'll go insane first.
<godbyk> I may do some crazy global find-and-replaces on the thing before pushing out a new PDF.
<godbyk> It'll depend on how involved they are.
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> does anyone use tomboy notes in Lucid?
<godbyk> haven't tried 'em in lucid yet.
<godbyk> haven't done anything in lucid yet, actually.
<godbyk> though I caught myself looking for the close button on the right. :)
<humphreybc> haha
<cjohnston> o
<cjohnston> o/
<humphreybc> hi
<humphreybc> godbyk, cjohnston is going to help us triage and fix bugs
<humphreybc> he firstly will need an @ubuntu-manual.org email address to access the spreadsheet
<godbyk> cool
<humphreybc> then you'll have to install latex
<godbyk> gimme his full name and email address and I'll set that up.
<humphreybc> cjohnston: for now, just the next couple of days, if you could help us triage and assign bugs in the spreadsheet that would be good
<cjohnston> humphreybc: just aptitude install latex
<cjohnston> k
<godbyk> then point him at the authors page on the wiki to get everything setup there.
<humphreybc> cjohnston: nope, we use a later version of latex that's not in the repos
<humphreybc> cjohnston: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors
<cjohnston> godbyk: Chris Johnston chrisjohnston@ubuntu.com
<godbyk> cjohnston: I've emailed you the login info.
<cjohnston> k
<godbyk> cjohnston: follow these steps to get started with editing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors
<godbyk> during the tex live 2009 installation, make sure you enable the "create symlinks" option.
<humphreybc> cjohnston: once you've got your @ubuntu-manual.org email set up, join us in the spreadsheet:
<humphreybc> http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en
<godbyk> otherwise you'll be talking to me again when things don't work. :)
<cjohnston> ok
<humphreybc> godbyk what's the latex command to enter a tilde? ~
<godbyk> \texttilde
<humphreybc> I think there's a bug in google spreadsheet
<humphreybc> the auto colouring just stops working after 100 rows
<cjohnston> why are yall not just using LP bugs?
<humphreybc> cjohnston: long story
 * godbyk sighs
<humphreybc> you'll see why when you see the spreadsheet
<humphreybc> after all this is over, i'll write a post on why we didn't use launchpad
<godbyk> I should just write a blog entry about it so I can point people there. :)
<humphreybc> and how we saved time :)
<humphreybc> haha that's what I'm going to do!
<godbyk> whoops
<godbyk> Ctrl+W'd on the wrong window!
<godbyk> focus should follow my gaze, dang it!
<cjohnston> I don't see how its possible
<humphreybc> lol
<cjohnston> maybe im just so used to LP
<humphreybc> possible to what? save time? or follow your gaze?
<cjohnston> save time
<humphreybc> ah right
<humphreybc> well maybe you'll learn something :P
<godbyk> 1. It's easier for people to report bugs. They don't have to have a launchpad account, log in, fill out fields that don't really matter.
<godbyk> 2. It's easier for us to deal with the bugs. We get bugs reported in a consistent way and in a meaningful way to us.
<humphreybc> + a bunch of other reasons
<godbyk> 3. Saves both parties time as we skip the whole, 'Hey, thanks for reporting a bug, but you forgot to tell us all these details.'
<humphreybc> but all of that will be covered in a blog post at some poiont
<godbyk> humphreybc: anything else that needs to go into the new PDf or shall I push it to the website?
<humphreybc> blah just push it
<godbyk> you're so cavalier!
<cjohnston> run straight off of main correct?
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> we're badass
<cjohnston> how do yall pick bugs?
<humphreybc> Jamin is assigned to prologue through chapter 3
<humphreybc> I'm taking on chapters 4, 5 and 6
<godbyk> humphreybc: new pdf should be up now.
<humphreybc> Bryan is doing 7, 8 and 9
<humphreybc> godbyk wicked
<godbyk> humphreybc: and test.ubuntu-manual.org should point to daker-test now.
<humphreybc> cool
<cjohnston> what should I do
<humphreybc> cjohnston: basically if you could start assigning stuff to people
<humphreybc> so from line 186 onwards, there is no one assigned
<cjohnston> ok
<cjohnston> so assign based on chapter?
<humphreybc> so you need to look at the page number of the bug, find out what chapter it's in, then assign it to one of us three and colour code the box (it's supposed to colour code automatically bug google spreadsheet has a bug)
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> and check for duplicates as you go
<cjohnston> why does the reporter not just include the chapter?
<humphreybc> if you find a duplicate, cross it off and in the notes/fixed part type "duplicate"
<humphreybc> because godbyk thought that was a silly idea :P
<cjohnston> :-Puh huh
<godbyk> unless it's a formatting or artwork issue, then it's assigned to either me or thorwil
<humphreybc> yeah latex bugs are for godbyk
<humphreybc> art are for thorwil
<humphreybc> one downside of using a spreadsheet for bug tracking is lack of duplicates recognition
<humphreybc> so we have lots of duplicates
<godbyk> cjohnston: because we're trying to make it as easy for bug reporters as possible. and the chapter number doesn't appear on the page they're looking at.
<humphreybc> but that's something the triagers should pick up :P
<godbyk> and 'cause it's only helpful in assigning the bug to someone. the page number gets you where you need to go in the end. :)
<godbyk> well, finding duplicates is pretty easy when you start fixing the bugs. you'll figure out pretty quickly if you've already fixed it.
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> so it's not as vitally important that it be flagged in the spreadsheet.
<humphreybc> had the whole tilde missing bug three times now
<humphreybc> hopefully that'll be the last of that one now that the new PDF is pushed
<godbyk> humphreybc: it won't be, 'cause you didn't fix it.
<humphreybc> balls
<humphreybc> i must have fixed it after i pushed it
<humphreybc> oh well
<humphreybc> it's an easy one to recognize as a duplicate
<godbyk> Now did I or did I not verify like three times that you were ready?  :-P
<cjohnston> is there a page that lists who gets what?
<humphreybc> shush
<humphreybc> cjohnston: nope
<daker> humphreybc, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?contributors
<humphreybc> first 4 chapters to Jamin
<humphreybc> middle three to me
<humphreybc> last three to Bryan
 * humphreybc has fixed all his assigned bugs! YEA!
<cjohnston> am I supposed to verfiy and assign?
<humphreybc> verify they're not duplicates
<cjohnston> umm
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> don't worry about it for now
<humphreybc> as you go you'll come across some you've already seen
<humphreybc> just make sure they're assigned to the right people
<cjohnston> which are you, yellow or grean
<godbyk> don't worry so much about dupes
<cjohnston> green
<cjohnston> what the crap
<humphreybc> cjohnston: green
<cjohnston> looks yellow to me
<cjohnston> lol
<humphreybc> huh?
<humphreybc> Jamin is yello
<humphreybc> I'm green
<humphreybc> Bryan is light blue
<cjohnston> you said jamin is the first 4 chapter, but yet someone is changing those to green
<humphreybc> anything page number 0 - 97 is Jamin
<humphreybc> 95 sorry
<cjohnston> ok
<humphreybc> Bryan is 127 - 147
<cjohnston> not hte pagenumber then
<cjohnston> the
<humphreybc> and i'm 95 - 127
<humphreybc> cjohnston: look at M3
<humphreybc> cell M3
<humphreybc> those are the page numbers
<humphreybc> so anything that falls in 95 - 127, you assign to me
<cjohnston> M3?
<cjohnston> D?
<humphreybc> no
<humphreybc> column M
<humphreybc> row 3
<humphreybc> top right of the spreadsheet
<cjohnston> http://img697.imageshack.us/i/screenshotubuntumanuale.png/
<cjohnston> column d
<humphreybc> that should be assigned to me
<cjohnston> what should
<humphreybc> the thing you've highlighted in the screenshot
<cjohnston> no
<cjohnston> i was talking just about the column
<cjohnston> not the bug and not the row
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> wait i'm confused
<humphreybc> scroll to the right and have a look at column M, row 3
<cjohnston> oooo
<humphreybc> I have put the names of the people to assign stuff to, and the page numbers
<cjohnston> now i see it
<cjohnston> lol
<cjohnston> okie
<humphreybc> so anything between 0 - 95 goes to Jamin
<humphreybc> etc
<cjohnston> i thought you were telling me where to find the page # for each bug
<humphreybc> no
 * humphreybc wishes the stupid auto color thing would work
<cjohnston> it does for me
<humphreybc> really?
<humphreybc> i suppose that's good then
<cjohnston> si
<cjohnston> no more bragging about having all your assigned bugs complete
<humphreybc> loil
<humphreybc> i know
 * daker is going to sleep ,its 3:43
<cjohnston> stop that
<cjohnston> ill do it and itll have colr
<humphreybc> oh cool nisshh is here now
<humphreybc> he can help you :P
<nisshh> who?
<humphreybc> nisshh, cjohnston is helping assign bugs now
<humphreybc> we have like 319 now
<nisshh> oh cool
<humphreybc> yep
<nisshh> i saw
<humphreybc> i've fixed a few
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> does cjjohnston have access to the spreadsheet yet?
<humphreybc> yes
<humphreybc> he's working on it now
<nisshh> ok cool
<nisshh> listen iv got to go out ut ill be back in about 3 hours tops yea?
<daker> godbyk, http://ubuntu-manual.org/?contributors si fixed
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> daker, don't forget to update the text on the main page and the downloads page
<daker> what text ?
<humphreybc> daker: I've changed a lot of the text
<humphreybc> in the mockups
<humphreybc> /website/source/index.png etc
<humphreybc> you'll need to reflect the change in the actual website
<humphreybc> and don't forget to have dashes in the feature list, like this -
<humphreybc> right now it's:
<humphreybc> Easy to understand our manual has step by step instructions and is jargon free
<humphreybc> but we need:
<humphreybc> Easy to understand - our manual has step by step instructions and is jargon free
<daker> this is what godbyk says to me
<humphreybc> also, can you have the main text left justified
<humphreybc> so we don't have gargantuan spacing between some words
<daker> oki
<daker> ;)
<daker> i am going to sleep :)
<godbyk> back
<daker> 3:50
<daker> see you tomorro :)
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> thanks
<humphreybc> :)
<daker> we are in tomorro :)
<humphreybc> hey so godbyk, what have you got planned for formatting and colouring of the font etc?
<humphreybc> also, should we be using a sans font for the main text?
<godbyk> who? what? huh?
<humphreybc> well at the moment the manual looks pretty dreary
<godbyk> formatting and coloring of what fonts? where?
<humphreybc> no colour in the font
<humphreybc> like section headers/chapter headers etc
<humphreybc> and formatting of commands like \button and \keyboardinput or whatever
<godbyk> the commands are formatted.. though some may change a bit.
<humphreybc> and when is it going back to non-book style?
<godbyk> (I don't like how much bold we have. It's a little distracting.)
<humphreybc> yeah we have a tonne of bold
<humphreybc> can we please colour the section and subsection headers?
<godbyk> I've just been making all the commands bold for now 'til I see what we end up with.
<humphreybc> at the moment it's far too black and white
<godbyk> Then I'll change them.
<humphreybc> if you can use some colours from the title page to make it look pretty, that would be good
<godbyk> It's not a kaleidoscope, it's a manual. It's meant to be read, not admired from afar.
<humphreybc> :'(
 * humphreybc likes colours
<godbyk> you also like drop shadows, but I'm not putting those in either! :)
<humphreybc> I liked the maroon we had going on in the section headers
<humphreybc> can you put some aubergine in there? dark orange or something?
<humphreybc> at the moment it looks far too much like the Canonical desktop guide
<humphreybc> ie, boring and commercial
<godbyk> So far you haven't given me a good reason to.  You've just said, 'I like color.  Can you throw some color in somewhere?'
<godbyk> Colored text should serve a purpose.  It's used to highlight things and draw attention.
<godbyk> Give me some examples of where you would use color to good effect and why.  Then we'll talk. :)
<humphreybc> are the hyperlinks going to stay red?
<godbyk> I don't yet.  thorwil gave me a new palette to work with, but I haven't plugged them in yet.
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> use that new pallete :)
<godbyk> I think the links should be colored so people notice they can click on them from the pdf. But they have to be a dark enough color that they're readable when printed in greyscale.
<humphreybc> indeed
<humphreybc> we also need a key at the end of the prologue
<godbyk> could you file a bug about that in launchpad and assign it to me? I keep forgetting. :-(
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> the texttilde command broke the build
<humphreybc> i think i did it wrong
<godbyk> what'd it say? err msg?
<humphreybc> ! LaTeX Error: Command \texttilde unavailable in encoding EU1.
<godbyk> oh, nice.
<godbyk> eh, assign that bug to me and I'll look into it.
<humphreybc> should i push and let you fix it?
<godbyk> don't push, I'll look at it here.
<humphreybc> kk
<godbyk> just tag it with my name in the spreadsheet
<humphreybc> righto
<humphreybc> what's the correct name for the "key" ?
<godbyk> Nomenclature?
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> global bug: fix the capitalization of the headings.
<humphreybc> are they still screwed?
<godbyk> personally, I think the chapter headings should be title case, and the section headings should be sentence case.
<godbyk> also, weren't we going to rename some of the chapters?
<humphreybc> yeah we were
<humphreybc> I was thinking about that
<humphreybc> where's Ilya gone?
<godbyk> I think he's hiding.
<godbyk> I haven't seen him for a while.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> he's a smart guy
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: You here?
<humphreybc> yep
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: awesome
<sebsebseb> you so got to read what I am reading
<humphreybc> oh?
<sebsebseb> ,but first let me finnish reading comments before I link you
<godbyk> sebsebseb: uh oh.. good or bad?
<sebsebseb> godbyk: well false info about the manual
<humphreybc> =\
<sebsebseb> seems some people think Canonical have done it
<humphreybc> hja
<sebsebseb> and that paid writers have done it even
<humphreybc> must mean we're doing a good job...?
<godbyk> this? http://jjesse.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/not-working-w-community-a-respone-to-a-post-from-jono/
<humphreybc> I've seen a few blog posts and stuff that reckon this is an official thing
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: also is there some sort of lawyer for the manual?  I guess not,  so not sure what a comment on the second page is about
<godbyk> oh, wow
<humphreybc> huh?
<humphreybc> nah we don't have a lawyer :P
<godbyk> do we need one?! :)
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: well that's on the second page
<humphreybc> what?
<godbyk> link us
<humphreybc> that's the license
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: i'll link you soon, just going ot finnish it off first the comments nearly there
<humphreybc> oh you mean the 2nd page of this mysterious article
<humphreybc> godbyk, reading your article
<sebsebseb> humphreybc:  godbyk here http://blogs.computerworld.com/15784/the_new_ubuntu_linuxs_five_best_features
<sebsebseb> http://blogs.computerworld.com/15784/the_new_ubuntu_linuxs_five_best_features
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: the second  comment page, but the first mentions manual as well
<humphreybc> we saw that the other day, didn't look at the comments though
<godbyk> Wait a minute.. if you guys are getting paid, I want in! <grin>
<humphreybc> hahaha
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: anyway the beta or test version of the manual
<humphreybc> so where is the important comments i need to read?
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: I still haven't downloaded it
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: oh I guess there aren't really any
<sebsebseb> except something about a laywer on second page
<sebsebseb> and the manual being propritary
<sebsebseb> unless they are refering to some other manual of course
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: also I like the correct info,  from Steven J. Vaghen Nicholas's articles, he hasn't done it here
<sebsebseb> regarding the manual
<godbyk> who's Matthew East?
<godbyk> humphreybc: they really start on the second page.
<humphreybc> one of the ubuntu doc leaders
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: ok ok gimme a chance to read
<sebsebseb> There's a community to,  it's not all Canonical....
<sebsebseb> godbyk: I am behind on Linux Tech news, catching up here and there,  been reading  quite a bit of  negative Ubuntu 10.04 stuff recently.  People wanting to leave it for other distros, because of  Shuttleworths response to the buttons on the left, and that kind of thing.
<humphreybc> megh
<sebsebseb> Also I think ideally it would be better for people to know that the manual  is from the community rather than Canonical.
 * humphreybc just responded to guy claiming we're paid
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: :)
<Vitito> lol
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: is the comment on there yet though?
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> does it have to be approved?
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: maybe, I don't know
<godbyk> I don't see it yet
 * godbyk is bummed now that he's not getting paid. :(
<humphreybc> ha
<humphreybc> me too
<sebsebseb> maybe someone should do a comment saying it's from the community not Canonical,  I am not bothered enough though to do it myself, well I might.
 * godbyk is obviously working on the wrong manual project!
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> yeah didn't you hear?
<humphreybc> #ubuntu-manual-paid
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> that's where they get paid
<humphreybc> :(
<godbyk> I'm jumping ship and switching to the paid manual project.  Forget you guys!
<humphreybc> i guess it has to be approved or something
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> there also seems to be this notion that we're official' in some capacity.
<godbyk> not sure where that's coming from either.
<sebsebseb> well ideally want it part of the ISO, but I guess that won't happen
<godbyk> not yet, at least.
<humphreybc> we'll be on the CD for 10.10
<humphreybc> in some way or another
<humphreybc> yeah no idea where the official thing came from
<humphreybc> i never mentioned official anywhere
<sebsebseb> well generally it seems for example that loads of people think Ubuntu did this and that
<sebsebseb> when really it was upstream for example
<humphreybc> i think there is a lot of misunderstanding
<sebsebseb> so I guess it's a bit like this, for the manual as well
 * humphreybc tried posting his comment twice, not working
<sebsebseb> people think it was Canonical, but really it was the community
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: I guess needs to be accepted
<humphreybc> maybe it means we're so awesome people don't believe that volunteers did it
<sebsebseb> and that will take some time I guess
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: well not all of us were making the manual,  I wasn't for example, however I did tell someone about it who has been making it.
<sebsebseb> anyway yeah  the beta I still haven't seen that
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: by the way Lubuntu is rather nice
<humphreybc> yeah i know
 * humphreybc is a writer for OMG! Ubuntu!
<sebsebseb> the beta of the manual that is above
<godbyk> sebsebseb: you can grab the latest copy at http://ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: you can download the manual here, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: yes I have seen you put stuff on there
<humphreybc> big orange button
<godbyk> humphreybc: that's old now, right?
<humphreybc> godbyk nah
<sebsebseb> godbyk: what's old?
<humphreybc> it should have the same link as ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf
<humphreybc> this guy seems to think the docs team are god
<humphreybc> http://jjesse.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/another-ubuntu-doc-response-get-involved/
<godbyk> ok
<godbyk> he's on the docs team.
<humphreybc> what's his name?
<godbyk> J. Jesse? :)
<humphreybc> and really, really, anyone who thinks we're a Canonical project are crazy. Would a Canonical project have a silly Live Ubuntu Manual progress meter with the letters "OMG!" on it in silly writing?
<humphreybc> and have 66.1337% as a value one time?
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> Jonathan
<humphreybc> Jonathan Jesse?
<humphreybc> never heard of him
 * humphreybc has heard of a lot of people
<humphreybc> cjohnston: how'd you go with setting up latex?
<humphreybc> hey godbyk, do you remember what we were going to change the names to for some chapters?
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'd have to look again. Let me finish this blog entry first.
<godbyk> (I'll have you read the draft.)
<humphreybc> what's the blog entry on?
<humphreybc> why we're using a spreadsheet instead of launchpad?
<godbyk> yeah
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> include that screenshot of the spreadsheet
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/spreadsheet.png
<godbyk> k
 * humphreybc is going to fix the headers
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'd recommend having chapter titles use title case and section headings use sentence case.
<humphreybc> really?
<humphreybc> but title case is so unnatural and ugly
<humphreybc> honest!
<godbyk> sentence case for the chapter headings just looks weird.
<humphreybc> give me a better reason than "just weird"
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/clearing-up-some-misunderstanding/
<humphreybc> anything I've missed?
<godbyk> They just look better on the right, damn it!
<godbyk> Oh, wait, wrong argument.
<humphreybc> hahaha
<godbyk> lemme look
<godbyk> Capitalize "Internet".
<godbyk> I don't know if we're 'endorsed' or what form that 'endorsement' may take.
<godbyk> Use a semicolon instead of the comma in the second bullet point
<humphreybc> huh?
<humphreybc> woah grammar nazi alert
<godbyk> Heh.. have you seen the bugs I've been posting? :)
<humphreybc> yes, yes I have
<humphreybc> I fixed a couple of them
<humphreybc> okay, refresh.
<godbyk> I don't know what 'single-page PDF' means
<humphreybc> I need something better than "What this guide is not" cos that sucks balls
<humphreybc> yes you do
<godbyk> "in good intentions" -> "with good intentions"
<humphreybc> double-up printing would be different, where you have two pages to every A4
<humphreybc> what's the technical name for having one page per A4 page
<godbyk> A single-page PDF is a PDF that contains only one page.
<godbyk> I don't know.  I'd guess it'd be one-up.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> now
<godbyk> But that's awkward too
<humphreybc> give me a better section header for "What this guide is not"
<godbyk> "Linux barrier" -> "barrier"
<humphreybc> maybe just "About this guide"
<godbyk> Or "barrier to entry to Linux" maybe?
<godbyk> the current phrasing makes it sound like Linux is the barrier.
<humphreybc> okay okay
<humphreybc> good
<humphreybc> thanks for the english lesson :)
<humphreybc> now, moving on
<godbyk> "About this guide" would be better as long as you're talking about more than what the guide isn't.
<godbyk> Or just drop the section heading and let it all flow together.
<humphreybc> it's now about this guide
<humphreybc> oh true
<humphreybc> that could work
<humphreybc> hey
<humphreybc> you changed it back to indentation
<humphreybc> instead of paragraph spacing
<humphreybc> grr
<godbyk> Hmm.. that probably happened when I went from book to tufte-book.
<godbyk> I think the indentation looks nice. :)
 * humphreybc doesn't agree
 * humphreybc likes paragraph spacing as much as drop shadows
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> is Gnome GNOME or Gnome?
<godbyk> I'm not sure what it is these days.
<humphreybc> oh it's all caps
<humphreybc> from System > About GNOME
<godbyk> is that the official word?
<godbyk> Looks like it's GNOME all over gnome.org
<godbyk> I might set GNOME in small-caps, though. I dunno yet.  Have to see how things look.
<humphreybc> so, for the chapter "Working with Ubuntu" do you suggest we have it "Working With Ubuntu?"
<godbyk> No, it'd be "Working with Ubuntu"
<humphreybc> okay good
<godbyk> the chapter headings (in title case) would be:
<godbyk> Prologue
<godbyk> Installation
<godbyk> Around Your Desktop
<godbyk> Working with Ubuntu
<godbyk> Preferences and Hardware
<godbyk> Software and Packaging
<godbyk> The Command Line
<godbyk> Security
<godbyk> Troubleshooting
<godbyk> Learning More About Ubuntu
<godbyk> License
<godbyk> Credits
<godbyk> Index
<godbyk> I don't remember what all our suggestions were for renaming, but a few that come to mind:
<godbyk> Around Your Desktop --> The Ubuntu Desktop   (this one doesn't bug me too much though)
<godbyk> Preferences and Hardware -->  I don't know, but there's not much about preferences (from the section headings, at least)
<godbyk> Software and Packaging --> drop the packaging.. that means nothing.  "Software Management" perhaps?
<godbyk> the others are okay at first glance.
 * godbyk will never finish his blog post at this rate!
<humphreybc> okay i've fixed up the chapters and headings
<godbyk> that didn't take long
<humphreybc> most of them were okay
<humphreybc> tell me how to fix the tilde thing please
<godbyk> I don't know yet. I'll have to look into it.
<humphreybc> okay I just commented it for now
<godbyk> \texttilde usually works, but apparently not under XeTeX.
<humphreybc> so it doesn't break the build
<godbyk> you can temporarily use $\sim$ if you want.
 * humphreybc thinks the Hardware drivers section is a ginormous bunch of text
<happyaron> how to translate ubuntu-manual.org?
<godbyk> Hello, happyaron.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/translators should get you started.
<humphreybc> godbyk, he means the website
<happyaron> yup, website
<happyaron> regarding the manual itself, I wonder whether Chinese is able to be rendered using TeX
<godbyk> ah, good question.
<godbyk> I'm not sure what the status of the website translation stuff is at the moment.
<godbyk> I haven't set up the Chinese translation stuff for TeX yet. It's on my list of things to do.
<happyaron> oh
<godbyk> So far we haven't had many translations for Chinese, so it's been a lower priority for me.
<godbyk> happyaron: If you send a message to our mailing list, we'll have someone get in touch with you about translating the website.
<happyaron> godbyk: some members in Simplified Chinese team are starting to translate the manual, but we are not sure whether it is useful
<godbyk> I know the site is designed to be translated (it's using gettext), but I don't know if they've uploaded the .pot file yet or if the text has been finalized.
<happyaron> oh
<godbyk> happyaron: Cool.  If you translate it, I'll find a way to make it work. :)
<sebsebseb> happyaron: By the way what's the difference between simplied chinese, and well chinese?
<happyaron> that's good
<sebsebseb> simpflified
<happyaron> sebsebseb: simplified is being used in China mainland, and traditional in Hongkong, Taiwan, etc.
<sebsebseb> happyaron: oh,  so which is the original?
<sebsebseb> happyaron: Which was first?
<happyaron> neither of them is the original, but traditional one is more likely to the original one
<sebsebseb> happyaron: oh ok,  but why aren't the other counteries using the same one as China?
<happyaron> sebsebseb: most of people using Chinese in other countries are migrate from Hongkong, Taiwan and south China, who have the tradition to use Traditional Chinese, :)
<sebsebseb> happyaron: oh ok
<sebsebseb> happyaron: As for the manual and the website for it, being translated into different  languages, I guess the more, the better.
<happyaron> sebsebseb: I suggest to have it translate to Simplified/Traditional, but not only leave a Chinese
<happyaron> because the usage are quite different
<sebsebseb> happyaron: but not only leave a Chinese?
<happyaron> I meant, there is only a selection named "Chinese"
<happyaron> but neither Simplified nor Traditional Chinese can represent "Chinese"
<happyaron> the should be two different selection in the list
<sebsebseb> I guess if there's going to be one Chinese language version,  there should be the other as well really, Simplified and Traditional.
<humphreybc> cough
<humphreybc> !ot
 * happyaron *they
<humphreybc> AWH MANUAL BOT
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: yeah where's the bot
<humphreybc> may have died
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: and yes it was
<sebsebseb> off topic
<sebsebseb> happyaron:  I meant for the manual and website,  probably better to have both Simplified and Traditonal,  but haveing only one is better than none.
<happyaron> yes, I see
<happyaron> I am sure Simplified Chinese team is translating, but don't know Traditional one
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: Only some of that was off topic actsualley, but the factoid message :) unless it's been changed since...
<godbyk> cjohnston: Did I miss any of the arguments that I gave you earlier?  http://kevin.godby.org/2010/03/22/ubuntu-manual-bug-tracking/
<godbyk> humphreybc: When you renamed the chapter labels, you have to fix all the \chaplink and \ref commands that refer to that label, otherwise the links break.
<humphreybc> bollocks
<humphreybc> was kinda hoping they'd fix themselves magically
<godbyk> if you leave the \label command alone, they would've.
<godbyk> \label is like the variable name.. it can point at anything, but if you change the name of the variable, all bets are off.
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> my bad
<nisshh> hey again
<godbyk> hey, nisshh
<nisshh> cjohnston: nice job with the assigning
<humphreybc> now just to actually fix them :S
<humphreybc> nisshh: if you want something else to do, you can help with the index and/or glossary
<nisshh> ok, what needs doing there?
<humphreybc> godbyk, what's the best way Ryan can help with the Index or Glossary?
<godbyk> Read through the manual and decide what words should have entries in the glossary.
<godbyk> Add those entries to the frontmatter/glossaryentries.tex file
<godbyk> See the email I sent a while back about glossary entries.
<nisshh> ok, thanks
<nisshh> what kind of words should be in the glossary?
<humphreybc> definitions of stuff that a new user wouldn't know
<humphreybc> so like, Gnome, applet, package
<humphreybc> etc
<nisshh> ok got it
<nisshh> oh, crap i just remembered that i did a forced fresh install of lucid yesterday
<nisshh> so all my tex live stuff is gone
<nisshh> ill have to install all the make dependencies again
<humphreybc> fun :P
<nisshh> arrh
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> you got a fast internet connection?
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: That's one big manual, with many lacking screen shots.  Plus I have some text feedback.
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: It's so big I am not done reading yet :D
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: That's a good thing though,  that it's big.
<sebsebseb> Covers a lot
<nisshh> my net connection should be ok, i got all the stuff installed in about 2 hours last time
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: heh
<humphreybc> sebsebseb, submit your feedback at http://ubuntu-manual.org otherwise it'll get lost
<humphreybc> i know we're right here and it seems easier to tell us now, but trust me, we'll forget if it's not in the spreadsheet
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: It was just little things,  plus there are channel logs, and  submitting to that site would mean signing up I guess,  I don't really want to bother doing that.
<humphreybc> you don't need to sign up :)
<humphreybc> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?bugs
<humphreybc> just fill out the form and hit submit
<humphreybc> we don't have time to trawl through channel logs sorry sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: ok, but not right now
<humphreybc> sure
<nisshh> godbyk: i shouldnt have problems installing texlive 2009 this time since i enabled "create symlinks" in the script this time
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: or  I might not bother :D  not sure yet
<humphreybc> you should bother, every little bit helps :)
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: oh yeah the cover uh
<sebsebseb> that's nothing like what I saw before
<humphreybc> looks like the bug reports have slowed down a bit
<nisshh> not for long probably :)
<humphreybc> godbyk, should we include http:// in \url{} 's?
<godbyk> yeah, we should.
<humphreybc> neat
<godbyk> the links won't work otherwise.
<humphreybc> hi thorwil, TommyBrunn, ubuntujenkins!
<nisshh> ok, im compiling the latest revision now, should be good to go in a minute
<humphreybc> nisshh: oresome
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc
<nisshh> humphreybc: where is the glossary?
<humphreybc> nisshh: at the end
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> what? its not funny!
<humphreybc> godbyk, teach nisshh how to do glossary stuff pl0x
<nisshh> not my fault if humphreybc made th glossary hard to find
<nisshh> :)
<humphreybc> hey don't look at me
<humphreybc> it was godbyk
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> all i can see is the index
<nisshh> no glossary
<godbyk> I just put it where it's meant to go. :-)
<nisshh> must be me then lol
<godbyk> nisshh: page 155.
<godbyk> between the license and credits
<nisshh> lol its not even listed in the ToC
<nisshh> it should be
<nisshh> found it anyway
<humphreybc> yay it's daker
<nisshh> omg! daker! woooooo!
<daker> good morning :)
<nisshh> uh, that would be evening for me
<daker> nisshh, hhh
<nisshh> meh
<nisshh> godbyk: where is the .tex file with the glossary in it?
<godbyk> nisshh: define new glossary entries in frontmatter/glossaryentries.tex
<godbyk> but they won't appear in the glossary unless you've invoked them in the document proper.
<nisshh> i noticed, alot are in the tex file but not in the pdf
<godbyk> See this: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00925.html
<nisshh> godbyk: in the manual you just have a \printglossaries command, which does not seem to entirely work
<nisshh> look in /backmatter/glossary.tex
<godbyk> nisshh: In what way?
<godbyk> It works as expected here.  What isn't it doing?
<nisshh> well in frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex you have about 7 or 8 entries right?
<godbyk> yep
<nisshh> but when i run make, it only shows one glossary entry
<godbyk> Correct.
<nisshh> why?
<godbyk> That's because only one of the entries was linked to in the text.
<godbyk> (The others used to be linked to, but someone removed the links somewhere along the way.)
<nisshh> should i relink them?
<godbyk> Sure.
<nisshh> ok how do i do that?
<thorwil> hi!
<nisshh> thorwil: hey
<godbyk> I've been creating bugs when I think we should create a glossary entry. See http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en.
<godbyk> For a super-short tutorial, see my email: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00925.html
<godbyk> Otherwise, run 'texdoc glossaries' for the whole story.
<nisshh> hmmm, i dont really get how it works still
<nisshh> can you elabrate a bit?
<godbyk> I can give you a quick run-down.
<nisshh> yes please!
<godbyk> First, before anything else happens, we have to define the glossary entries using the \newglossaryentry command.  These are stored in the frontmatter/glossaryentries.tex file.
<nisshh> right
<godbyk> Then, in the main document, we have to tell LaTeX which glossary entries we're using.
<godbyk> We can have a huge dictionary, but only reference a couple words in it.
<nisshh> by main document, what do you mean?
<godbyk> all the other .tex files
<godbyk> .the chapters
<godbyk> the main text
<nisshh> ok i get it so far
<godbyk> So if we have an entry for Canonical, we could say, "\gls{Canonical} is the creator of Ubuntu."
<nisshh> yep
<godbyk> Then LaTeX will see the \gls command and know that it needs to include the Canonical entry in the glossary
<godbyk> Finally, at the end, we say \printglossaries to output the glossary itself.
<nisshh> oh, i think i get it now
<godbyk> So \printglossaries will only output the entries that we've specified with \gls and friends.
<nisshh> so the \gls command can be in any of the chapter .tex files?
<nisshh> in any sentence?
<godbyk> Yes.
<godbyk> But it will actually print the word.
<nisshh> ah right
<godbyk> So you don't want to just toss it about.
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> so if i had a sentence say "Canonical is the creator of ubuntu."
<godbyk> The email (https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00925.html) covers a few of the variations of the \gls command.
<nisshh> i just add a glossary entry
<nisshh> yea ok
<godbyk> And if you want too much more detail, you'll have to run 'texdoc glossaries' and read the docs.  I haven't read through them all yet. :)
<godbyk> I read just enough to get it set up initially.
<nisshh> and then say this in the sentence "\gls{Canonical} is the creator of ubuntu."
<godbyk> yep
<nisshh> and it will add it to the glossary?
<godbyk> precisely.
<nisshh> oooohhhhkkkkaaaayyyyy
<nisshh> lol latex can take a bit of thinking sometimes
<godbyk> Said another way, Canonical will *not* be added to the glossary *unless* \gls{Canonical} is in the document someplace.
<godbyk> Yeah, it takes a bit of getting used to
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> But generally there are good reasons for doing it the way they do.
<godbyk> In this case, you could have one huge set of \newglossaryentry commands that you use for all your papers and it will only print the ones you actually use in any particular paper.
<nisshh> oh yea and if i say "\gls{Canonical}" somewhere in the main document it will still print the word canonical in the pdf?
<godbyk> yes.
<godbyk> and it will link the word Canonical to the glossary so you can click on it.
<nisshh> ok il have a crack at linking them in now
<nisshh> thanks for the explanation
<godbyk> np
<nisshh> oh, one more question, so for a word in the glossary say "applet" should i be linking every mention of the word applet to the glossary? or can i just do one and it will do the rest?
<godbyk> I wouldn't link every word.
<godbyk> I would link maybe the first occurrence in each chapter at the most.
<nisshh> ok, ill do that
<nisshh> if anyone thinks of anything to add to the glossary give me a yell
<godbyk> nisshh: look through the bugs in the spreadsheet. I mentioned a few things there.
<nisshh> ok cool
<nisshh> ill link the current ones then go there
<semioticrobotic> time for squashing
<humphreybc> yay, bryan!
<humphreybc> go hard :)
 * daker pushed up the 545 rev
<daker> humphreybc, do you have the text version of the "Special thanks" section?
<humphreybc> daker no sorry
<daker> :s
<semioticrobotic> ready to push a revision
<humphreybc> cool
<semioticrobotic> 546 committed
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: we'll need to be committing and pushing quite often
<humphreybc> so we don't have conflicts
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc: that's what I figured, so I'll push every few minutes or so
<humphreybc> neat
<semioticrobotic> maybe every two or three revisions
<humphreybc> every 20 minutes should work okay
<humphreybc> we are all editing different chapters
<semioticrobotic> and after lunch today, I'll complete my superedit of Chapter 7
<humphreybc> so there shouldn't be a problem even if there is a conflict
<humphreybc> awesome
<semioticrobotic> ok
<humphreybc> i'm going to print the manual tomorrow at uni
<semioticrobotic> then 7, 8, and 9 will have complete superedits
<humphreybc> and then go through the whole thing with a red pen
<semioticrobotic> nice
<humphreybc> then spend the next few days fixing things
<semioticrobotic> sounds good
<nisshh> im kind of getting used to the window buttons on the left, its not so bad
<godbyk> I'd recommend pushing after every commit to avoid potential conflicts (and merges).
<humphreybc> oh yeah
<nisshh> and make sure to pull changes all the time too
<humphreybc> i just commit and push in one thing
<humphreybc> to me, they're the same
<godbyk> right, except they're not. :)
<godbyk> I've committed and forgotten to push before.
<humphreybc> so when I say commit, I mean commit and push, when I say push, I mean commit and push :)
<godbyk> and with that, I'm off to bed.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> night!
<nisshh> godbyk: you still there?
<godbyk-android> Kinda. What's up?
<humphreybc> godbyk is always here
<humphreybc> ... lurking
<nisshh> how can i link a glossary entry if say the word applet is like "\emph{applet}"
<nisshh> humphreybc: lol
<godbyk> nisshh: \emph{\gls{applet}}
<nisshh> thanks, ill try that
<nisshh> oh, the first mention of the word applet is "applet's"
<nisshh> can i still link it>
<godbyk-android> Try \gls{applet}'s
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> hang on a sec compiling
<nisshh> works great, thanks godbyk
 * humphreybc was thirsty, skulled a bottle of beer. not thirsty anymore.
<nisshh> i should be ok for now if you want to get some sleep
<nisshh> humphreybc: lol!
<humphreybc> nisshh, you're now on the glossary. have fun!
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> humphreybc: how many bugs reported now?
<humphreybc> a cool 358
<nisshh> oh not many yet
<humphreybc> what did I say we'd get to by the end of the bug reporting period?
<humphreybc> that's almost two bugs per page
<humphreybc> which isn't good enough
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> I want zero bugs in my manual. :)
<humphreybc> If I find an apostrophe missing after the writing freeze I think i'll pop a blood vessel
<nisshh> yea but we both know there are going to be heaps and heaps
<nisshh> lol
<daker> lol
<humphreybc> no! It has to be perfect come final release day!
<nisshh> i bet we will
<humphreybc> if it's perfect everyone will be like "WOW"
<humphreybc> wow, i'm actually using a sizable about of gmail space
<humphreybc> 672MB (9%)
<nisshh> ooohhh
<humphreybc> amount*
<nisshh> at one point last year i hadnt cleaned out my inbox for over a year and had 42000 emails
<nisshh> no kidding
<humphreybc> lol
<daker> humphreybc, James Holland ?
<nisshh> i was like "WHAT?!?!"
<humphreybc> no idea who james holland is
<humphreybc> there's Josh Holland... which is dutchie
<semioticrobotic> evil twin?
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> what has James Holland done?
<daker> haha
<daker> nothing he sends a email to me from FB :)
<nisshh> FB?
<daker> FaceBook
<nisshh> oh, sorry im a shunner of facebook :)
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> daker
<humphreybc> check out the ubuntu manual team facebook page
<nisshh> i have
<nisshh> we had like 600 fans or something
<humphreybc> what'd the email say?
<humphreybc> nah i mean the latest post I just did
<nisshh> oh lol
<humphreybc> will explain the email to daker
<daker> "Great work on the website, well done"
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> "The Ubuntu Manual:-Â Everyone thankÂ Adnane BelmadiafÂ for his awesome work making the website mockups into reality!"
<daker> haha
<humphreybc> :P
<daker> i'll become famous
<humphreybc> you may do!
<humphreybc> nisshh, plenty of places for glossary entries from stuff in chapter 5
<humphreybc> repositories, packages, libraries, dependencies, Software Center, PPA, application etc
<humphreybc> those are just a few
<humphreybc> get crackin!
<nisshh> lol wow im going to be up all night
<humphreybc> i'll probably pull an all nighter on Saturday
<humphreybc> and then work all sunday too
<nisshh> im going through the ones already there now and then godbyks
<humphreybc> cool
<nisshh> THEN ill add more
<nisshh> i have college till friday but dont stress out about the glossary, ill get it done still
<humphreybc> nisshh: awesome
<humphreybc> we have until next wednesday..
<humphreybc> another week yet
<humphreybc> what chapter talks about internet connection setup?
<ubuntujenkins> 3 i think
<ubuntujenkins> yep its 3 "Working with ubuntu"
<humphreybc> cheers
<ubuntujenkins> np
<nisshh> wow, far out, the word package is mentioned about a billion times in the manual
<humphreybc> indeed
<nisshh> oh and evince has a terrible search function
<humphreybc> i know
<humphreybc> it sucks eh
<nisshh> does anyone know of a better pdf reader?
<humphreybc> nope
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> meh well that was helpful of you lol
<humphreybc> we need more usage of the warning icons etc
<nisshh> ill look in the repos
<humphreybc> you know, the yellow road signs
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> at the moment only a couple of chapters use them
<nisshh> yea iv seen about 4 uses or so
<humphreybc> nisshh: my definition of a package is pretty shit
<humphreybc> feel free to improve on it
<humphreybc> also, change the number of employees at Canonical from 200 to 310.
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> yep
<nisshh> holy crap, someone put the word kernel in the manual
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> where?
<nisshh> just ONCE!
<nisshh> in a freakin margin note
<humphreybc> was it me?
<nisshh> hang on
<nisshh> not you
<nisshh> its on page 115
<humphreybc> well that's okay
<nisshh> lol
<ubuntujenkins> page 113 software management
<nisshh> na ah page 115
<nisshh> do you have the latest revision?
<ubuntujenkins> ops it is page 115
<ubuntujenkins> in dual mode with 4 pages showing
<nisshh> hehe
 * ubuntujenkins loves his big screen
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> how big is it?
 * semioticrobotic is jealous
<ubuntujenkins> 22 inch 1080p
 * humphreybc bought another Dell 24" today
 * nisshh giggles
<humphreybc> well, last week
<humphreybc> so now i'll have two 24"
<semioticrobotic> I'm doing my editorial work on an Acer Aspire 1410 with 11.6-inch screen
<ubuntujenkins> I want another one to make three
<humphreybc> albeit they won't be sitting beside each other in dual screen
<semioticrobotic> totally awesome
 * humphreybc will remember to take photo
<humphreybc> check out the spreadsheet, Mark Hepworth hates me
<nisshh> hehe
<semioticrobotic> if we can push the manual to the public in advance of writing freeze, I think our benevolent dictator should buy monitors for the team
<ubuntujenkins> +1
<nisshh> im going to leave the word package unlinked for now, since the first mention is in the words "Synaptic Package Manager"
<nisshh> +1
<humphreybc> hahaha
<nisshh> ill have a 30" thanks
<semioticrobotic> +1
<humphreybc> i'll remember to tell him that next time I talk to him
 * semioticrobotic laughs
 * nisshh giggles like a girl
<semioticrobotic> dude, hepworth is a machine
 * humphreybc does actually chat to mark once every few days
<humphreybc> hepworth IS a machine!
 * nisshh just realises i said that out loud
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hehe
 * humphreybc can't wait to see the printed version of the manual tomorrow
 * humphreybc and to get his greasy hands on it with a red pen
<ubuntujenkins> thats going to cost a fortune to print
<humphreybc> i'll get it done at Uni
<ubuntujenkins> at uni that would cost me Â£9.78
<humphreybc> hopefully it won't cost too much
<humphreybc> maybe $10
<ubuntujenkins> in black and white double sided
<humphreybc> awh boo, our post quality has gone from 5 stars to 4 stars on facebook
<humphreybc> it's been at 5 stars ever since we opened the account
<ubuntujenkins> how is it worked out?
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> how many people like your posts?
<nisshh> okay, very funny, who put wubi in the glossary but not in the rest of the manual?
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<humphreybc> ha!
<humphreybc> it was in the installation chapter
<humphreybc> but is currently commented out
<nisshh> lol leave it ill deal with it later
<nisshh> ok on to godbyks stuff
<semioticrobotic> if you were closer, humphreybc, I'd print a copy for you with my faculty and ship it to you
<humphreybc> look at the latest UMP status update on facebook
<semioticrobotic> ... but that's be just as expensive as your printing costs, I'm afraid
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: haha
<humphreybc> and shipping?
<humphreybc> lol
<semioticrobotic> exactly
<humphreybc> "The Ubuntu ManualÂ Everyone! Bad news! Our facebook "post quality" has dropped down to 4 stars! It's been 5 stars ever since we started this fan page. I think it's based on how many "likes" your post gets, so, everyone, like everything! Including this! Like this!"
<humphreybc> "The Ubuntu Manual likes this"
<semioticrobotic> ha!
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> I must admit, our new logo looks awesome
<semioticrobotic> love it
<semioticrobotic> hey -- is anyone in charge of discovering duplicate bugs before they hit the spreadsheet?
<humphreybc> nope
<humphreybc> you can't do that
<humphreybc> because form goes straight to spreadsheet
<ubuntujenkins> I pick any up I can when asinging people
<nisshh> has to be done in the spreadsheet
<semioticrobotic> oh, right, I know -- I was just wondering if anyone was vetting these before they
<semioticrobotic> no big deal, of course ... I'm just encountering lots of duplicates
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> you will get lots of duplicates
<humphreybc> just mark them as duplicates and move on
<humphreybc> i think the manual is looking pretty good... for 160 pages long in 3 months we've done pretty well
<humphreybc> from scratch, too
<semioticrobotic> i must agree!  and I'm a latecomer, of course
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> haha, the like status is getting liekd
<humphreybc> liked*
 * ubuntujenkins is shouting at glade
 * daker saw a woman name in the Special Thanks section
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> OMG!
<humphreybc> lol @ ubuntujenkins
<humphreybc> you just liked everything :P
<daker> lol
<ubuntujenkins> I did indeed
<nisshh> bugger, got a conflict when i pulled, how do i resolve them?
<humphreybc> bzr merge
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> we're 4 fans away from having 700 on facebook. that's pretty gnarly.
 * daker is asking who is the 700 fans of the UMP page
<humphreybc> I'm aiming for 10,000 downloads of the manual on the first day of launch, the 29th April.
<daker> awesome
 * ubuntujenkins writes script to download it :-P
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> daker, did you make all new buttons for the wiki?
<daker> yeah
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> nice work, they look good
<daker> thanks
<nisshh> oh great
<humphreybc> although you should probably make the font size smaller in the programmer button
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> the padding (or lack of) at either end annoys me
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/contributions
<humphreybc> (for those who haven't seen the new contributions page)
<nisshh> i pulled, then got conflicts now i cant commit till i resolve them and cant resolve conflics till i commit my changes
<humphreybc> LOL my compiz is being super weird
<nisshh> freakin brilliany
<nisshh> t
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: whats the message you get?
<nisshh> well i got a conflict in the prologue when i pulled
<nisshh> to rev 550
<nisshh> and i cant commit my changes till i resolve the conflics
<nisshh> apparently
<nisshh> but i cant resolve the conflics until i commit
<ubuntujenkins> go thought the file and work out which bits you want to keep or not then do bzr resovle <Filename> i think
<nisshh> wtf?
<nisshh> im in a deadlock
<nisshh> i either lose my changes or i cant do anything
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> odd
<humphreybc> first, backup your changes
<humphreybc> you may have to delete the branch and re branch it
<ubuntujenkins> then do bzr conflicts
<nisshh> backing up my changes could be hard
<nisshh> they are everywhere
<ubuntujenkins> copy the whole branch to a new folder
<humphreybc> yeah
<nisshh> ok
<ubuntujenkins> ie ubuntu-manual-old
<humphreybc> just copy everything into a backup folder
<humphreybc> did you get the merge conflict when pulling my revision
<humphreybc> ?
<nisshh> i got it when i went from about 546 to 550
 * ubuntujenkins hates glade
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> weird
<nisshh> its ok im branching now
<nisshh> omg now i need a fresh ssh key
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2007/07/02/the-community-o-meter
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<nisshh> WOW...
<nisshh> thats really good
<nisshh> im going to blog about that
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> jono will probably post a comment
<nisshh> oi! thats not funny nisshh!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> I like his comment on Stuart's post
<humphreybc> "Shouldn't you be working or something, Langridge?"
<nisshh> havent seen it
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> have you seen the shot of jaq podcast
<nisshh> its great
<humphreybc> nah haven't listened to it yet
<semioticrobotic> ha!  nice!
<semioticrobotic> nisshh, everything resolved?  I'm ready to push some changes
<nisshh> not yet
<nisshh> need an ssh key dammit
<semioticrobotic> okay
<semioticrobotic> I love how some bug reports tend to be less grammatically correct than the "bugs" they seem to be reporting
<nisshh> lol funny isnt it?
<humphreybc> haha
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: do you have a branch of quickshot to hand?
<nisshh> humphreybc: nearly done
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: ?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc:or any one can you update quickshot and od a screnshot of these windows http://imagebin.org/90005 http://imagebin.org/90006 they look different but they are set the same and i want to see if it is my computer
<ubuntujenkins> you can get to the second one by clicking next on the first screen
<humphreybc> i haven't even looked at the quickshot branch in weeks, and i'm heading to bed now :)
<humphreybc> it's 2am
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool np
<ubuntujenkins> night o/
<humphreybc> chow
<semioticrobotic> later
<semioticrobotic> nisshh, how are things coming along?
<semioticrobotic> can I commit some changes now?
<semioticrobotic> ??
<nisshh> sorry i had to fix the branch
<nisshh> should be ok to commit and push your changes now
<nisshh> make sure you pull the latest first
<semioticrobotic> okay, thanks
<semioticrobotic> just pushed
<semioticrobotic> hopefully we're good to go
<nisshh> yea i hate it when the branch breaks
<semioticrobotic> how does that happen?
<nisshh> when someone forgets to pull before they commit and push the branch "diverges"
<nisshh> and it can happen other ways too
<semioticrobotic> gotcha
<semioticrobotic> looks like my commits pushed without trouble
<semioticrobotic> thanks
<semioticrobotic> but something does seem amiss
<nisshh> what
<semioticrobotic> I think a recent push of mine was support to bump us to revision 551
<semioticrobotic> but that appears to be your stuff
<semioticrobotic> a subsequent commit was numbered 553, and that looks fine
<nisshh> yea i know
<semioticrobotic> but my changes are still there?
<nisshh> but my stuff was going to be < 550
<nisshh> yes
<semioticrobotic> okay
<semioticrobotic> I might not be able to wrap my head around the logic, but I trust the system
<semioticrobotic> lol
<nisshh> i pushed someone elses up as well
<semioticrobotic> okay, cool
<nisshh> lol probably yours
<semioticrobotic> ah!
<semioticrobotic> yes, they are
<semioticrobotic> lol
<semioticrobotic> 552 is all my changes
<semioticrobotic> (whew)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> yea 551 are mine
<semioticrobotic> okay, thanks for clarifying that for
<semioticrobotic> for a moment I saw the last hour of my life disappear before my eyes ... lol
<nisshh> lol
<semioticrobotic> okay, I'm off
<semioticrobotic> take it easy
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: can you give me the link for the fr branch of the screenshots i am on a windows pc and lanuchpad is rubish in interent exploer
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr
<Red_HamsterX> Unless you mean the web-side.
<Red_HamsterX> Which you probably do.
<Red_HamsterX> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/fr
<ubuntujenkins> thanks Red_HamsterX
<daker> 707 fans awesome!!!
<donri> Lovely project you've got here.
<donri> "Additional repositories are available from site such as nd Launchpad PPAs" page 125
<donri> Also noticed Flickr spelled "flikr" at least twice, where Gwibber is documented.
<donri> The lower header sizes are somewhat too similar and it's not obvious from their sizes that the next section regards a new topic.
<donri> Any estimates on what a print on demand will cost?
<donri> Someone should sell prints bundled with shipit-like pressed CDs. :)
<donri> re header sizes: I'm at page 128, "Setting up a secure system" and "Firewall" look like the same heading levels, but I'm guessing "Firewall" is a subsection to "Setting up a secure system". This is not obvious from their sizes.
<donri> Page 128 also typo: "Preconfigued"
<donri> and missing a space: "simpletab"
<donri> On page 134, a normal prompt is used where we're actually root (rescue mode).
<donri> Also, would one not want a screenshot instead of the example "root@something#" text block?
<dutchie> netbook + android 3g tethering = irc from car
 * dutchie wonders why there are about 15 million blank pages
<ubuntujenkins> what?
<dutchie> title page, blank page, page with date, blank page, contents, blank page, prologue
<dutchie> don't think all those are needed
<ubuntujenkins> true they may be caused by laytex automatically
<dutchie> godbyk can sort it when he has a spare moment ;)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: If I remove the chapter folders form the branches will it break anything as far as your code goes?
<Red_HamsterX> It will make things easier for me.
<Red_HamsterX> But no, it will not break anything.
<ubuntujenkins> cool I will do i have written the script to remove them automatically
<ubuntujenkins> I will aslo get all the languages compele tonight
<Red_HamsterX> Can I help?
<ubuntujenkins> well if you like can you make the new branches for the missing languages?
<ubuntujenkins> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots?field.lifecycle=ALL
<ubuntujenkins> that is all the ones so far
<ubuntujenkins> any new ones need a folder added to lp:ubuntu-manual-screenshots as well
<Red_HamsterX> Necessary stupid question: how can I create a branch and make it public?
<ubuntujenkins> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots click regiter branch
<ubuntujenkins> then set the owner to ubuntu manual team
<ubuntujenkins> the name is just the short language code
<ubuntujenkins> we shall delete the en_GB and make it just en
<Red_HamsterX> Hosted on Launchpad?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<Red_HamsterX> en_GB/en_CA/en_US -> en?
<ubuntujenkins> I think so I will be interested to see if we can find a difference
<Red_HamsterX> Americans like to misspell words.
<Red_HamsterX> And they have weird rules about punctuation.
<ubuntujenkins> True it does depend on how quickshot detects the languages, lets make seperate one
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see why we could just have a mapping in Quickshot.
<Red_HamsterX> couldn't*
<Red_HamsterX> Just a lookup dictionary.
<Red_HamsterX> Got a link to the list of languages we still need?
<ubuntujenkins> all languages can be found at builds.ubuntu-manual.org
<Red_HamsterX> Yay.
<ubuntujenkins> you have to crate a blank folder in you user and go to it in the command line and type bzr init
<ubuntujenkins> there shoudl be about 5-10 missing
<ubuntujenkins> then do bzr push bzr push lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/$language where language is the laguage you just made
<ubuntujenkins> make sense?
<Red_HamsterX> Yep.
<Red_HamsterX> Like an initial commit for svn.
<ubuntujenkins> cool you may have to use an option something LIKE --use-current-dir when you do the next one
<daker> godbyk, !!!
 * ubuntujenkins thinks we should do a canwedoscreenshotsyet.com site like the http://isthemusicstorereadyyet.com/
<daker> lol
<titeuf_87> the answer is a yes with a * after it. Below the page the * should show that it's only possible for one or two cases
<ubuntujenkins> I only say it as we have lots of people wanting to do it over the last few days
<titeuf_87> I'll work more on it and try to get a workable version done as soon as possible.
<titeuf_87> Although lately whenever I'm programming and my sister runs in my room she wants me to teach her how to code too.
<ubuntujenkins> its fine its good to see people so keen
<daker> lol
<titeuf_87> She's only eight and already learning some python, give her some years and she'll be able to help out too!
<ubuntujenkins> can you look at the lastest push by me I can't get the three screenresolution windows to look the same. they are set up the same but they look different
<titeuf_87> sure
<ubuntujenkins> thanks it has been driving me mad i like the one that warns me that we are about to change the reolution but the other suck
<ubuntujenkins> *others
<titeuf_87> talking about the "resolution change", "nochange" and "success" windows right?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<Red_HamsterX> Created en, fi, ms, sv, ta.
<ubuntujenkins> will en be for USA?
<Red_HamsterX> I assume it'll be for all English.
<Red_HamsterX> And we can just add an 'en_*' -> 'en' rule in Quickshot.
<Red_HamsterX> America's weird, but it's not like their dialect is unintelligible... yet.
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough
 * Red_HamsterX was a linguistics minor.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to write an index page now.
<Red_HamsterX> Nothing fancy.
<Red_HamsterX> Just a way of quickly viewing status and generating zipfiles for download.
<ubuntujenkins> have you filled the branchs?
<Red_HamsterX> Filled them with what?
<Red_HamsterX> I wrote a simple bash script that inits and pushes them.
<Red_HamsterX> And ran it on each one.
<Red_HamsterX> Launchpad recongizes them as empty branches.
<Red_HamsterX> (As opposed to uninitialized branches)
<ubuntujenkins> Are yse makes sense, sorry getting confused
<Red_HamsterX> bzr does that.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks I am running the script that removes the chapter folders
<Red_HamsterX> I noticed.
<Red_HamsterX> Looks like it's working.
<Red_HamsterX> Based on the branch list status.
<ubuntujenkins> Its done and I have shortend a 700+ line script to 15 lines
<Red_HamsterX> for i in *; do cd "${i}"; for j in *; do bzr del "${j}"; done; bzr commit -m "Blanked tree"; cd ..; done
<Red_HamsterX> Something like that?
<ubuntujenkins> thats what my new script looks like
<Red_HamsterX> +push
<Red_HamsterX> I forgot the push.
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc
<humphreybc> hiya!
<daker> hi humphreybc
<humphreybc> hey daker!
<daker> the test.ubuntu-manual.org is not sync
<daker> also
<daker> ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> I think godbyk turned off auto-sync for now
<humphreybc> he may not have turned it back on yet
<daker> oki
<donri> Were my above notes received?
<ubuntujenkins> silly but how do i get the date command to work date -u %H:%M:%S doesn't work
<humphreybc> hmmm?
<ubuntujenkins> donri: what notes where did you post them?
<donri> I was rambling here about some stuff I noticed while reading the draft.
<ubuntujenkins> when? was it before 17:32?
<donri> Before you joined.
<ubuntujenkins> ok then i don't know sorry
<ubuntujenkins> they will be in the logs
<humphreybc> everything is logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com
<donri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/400119/
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: I suppose the obligatory answer to your date question is "RTFM"
<ubuntujenkins> RTFM whats that mean
<humphreybc> donri: cool, thanks for the feedback :)
<dutchie> read the fine manual
<dutchie> though not always "fine" ;)
<humphreybc> "Someone should sell prints bundled with shipit-like pressed CDs." << we're probably going to put it on lulu.com
<dutchie> Usage: date [OPTION]... [+FORMAT]
<donri> uhm, + <donri> Also, would one not want a screenshot instead of the example "root@something#" text block? (page 134)
<ubuntujenkins> The formating is messing it up I can't get the formatt to work
<ubuntujenkins> missing the +
<humphreybc> ... almost 400 bug reports now
<ubuntujenkins> ouch
<daker> ouch
<donri> Anyway, the manual exhibits high quality, good work people.
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> donri: thanks!
<donri> Proper documentation is essential to the usefulness of any software project.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I am going to make an install cd with quickshot and all the languages already on so users can do screenshots easily
<humphreybc> oh really? awesome!
<humphreybc> that is super kickass
<humphreybc> is quickshot going to be ready by Monday?
<dutchie> do we fancy doing a PPA with a daily build?
<ubuntujenkins> in a few day I would think so
<humphreybc> for quickshot?
<dutchie> no, the manual
<humphreybc> if you want to set it up dutchie
<ubuntujenkins> I ment quickshot
<humphreybc> sure
 * dutchie adds it to the todo list
<humphreybc> sweet
<daker> humphreybc, is the website's text finalized ?
<humphreybc> daker: yes
 * humphreybc is pretty sure he hasn't made any spelling errors or typos
<daker> in /website/source/ ?
<humphreybc> yup
<daker> oki
<daker> 27 languages for the website
<humphreybc> gnarly
<humphreybc> right I need to head off
<humphreybc> catch ya'll later!
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/ (Or, whenit gets updated, the ubuntu-manual.org interface)
<humphreybc> cjohnston: make sure you keep on top of those bugs and get them assigned to people :P
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: nice
 * ubuntujenkins has assigned them all
<humphreybc> neat!
<Red_HamsterX> It lists all languages for which screencaps have been gathered and the amount of completion relative to the number of dictionary entires.
<Red_HamsterX> It looks hideous, but it works and it should let you get at the finished data pretty quickly.
<ubuntujenkins> woo as long as it works
<humphreybc> sweet as, if you talk to godbyk and daker you could probably pretty easily implement it into the ubuntu-manual frame
 * humphreybc thinks that a screenshot page might be in order for the website
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure it needs to be part of the rest of the site.
<Red_HamsterX> It's just a data-retrieval system right now.
<humphreybc> right
<ubuntujenkins> also we only want to let certain people to be aloud to aprove the screenshots,
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, this system doesn't handle that at all.
<ubuntujenkins> ie not the whole world
<Red_HamsterX> It just gives you files with correct filenamesto stick into the branches manually.
<Red_HamsterX> I figure we'll all help with that once we have more data.
<ubuntujenkins> I know it will help allot
<Red_HamsterX> In a purely ideal case, you'd just unzip the archive into a branch, bzr add *, and commit.
<Red_HamsterX> And that would be all you'd have to do.
<ubuntujenkins> sweet
<humphreybc> neato burrito
<humphreybc> how's the Quickshot front end coming along?
<Red_HamsterX> If there's a screenshot that needs to be replaced, you'd have to pluck it from data/ manually, rename it, and overwrite the bad one.
<humphreybc> I haven't had a chance to have a proper look recently
<Red_HamsterX> I'll develop better tools as we get more of an idea of how this system gets used in practice.
<dutchie> humphreybc: neato burrito? you kiwis are weird...
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> Burritos are always neato!
 * Red_HamsterX Canucks and avoids scrutiny.
<daker> godbyk, !!!
<daker> godbyk, you turned off auto-sync ?
<daker> godbyk, you turned off auto-sync ?
<dutchie> daker: give him a chance ;)
<daker> dutchie, ok
 * dutchie looks into doing a daily build
<dutchie> bah, was just about to ping godbyk when he timed out :(
<daker> lol
<dutchie> and humphreybc's gone too :(
<daker> yeap
 * ubuntujenkins  also has a question for godbyk
<dutchie> christ, the branch has got big recently
<luke-quickshot> mattgriffin, I am just doing the sample screenshots are there any in your section?
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: yes. there are a few in the rbox doc and will be a few in the Ubuntu One section
<luke-quickshot> ok what are they?
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: sorry. are you looking for a list?
<luke-quickshot> yes please
<luke-quickshot> ad descrition will do
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: \screenshotTODO{Rhythmbox Toolbar}
<mattgriffin> \screenshotTODO{Rhythmbox Side Pane}
<mattgriffin> \screenshotTODO{Rhythmbox Toolbar with CD options}
<mattgriffin> \screenshotTODO{Podcasts Toolbar with podcast options}
<luke-quickshot> mattgriffin, can the top two not be one of the whole window?
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: yeah. that'll work
<luke-quickshot> cool
<luke-quickshot> which ones for ubuntu one?
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: in face the first 3 can be the whole window
<mattgriffin> s/face/fact
<luke-quickshot> by toolbar with cd options do you mean inserting a cd to rip? or do you mean the cd like button?
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: so here's the rbox list: \screenshotTODO{Rhythmbox application with a CD inserted}
<mattgriffin> \screenshotTODO{Podcasts Toolbar with podcast options}
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: haven't written the ubuntu one docs yet. writing tonight.
<luke-quickshot> ok can you push the rythambox ones asap please
<luke-quickshot> whos wrote chapter 8?
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: pushing rbox docs now
<luke-quickshot> thanks mattgriffin that way they can be checked for typos
<mattgriffin> coo.
<mattgriffin> cool
<mattgriffin> ugh... can't type today
<luke-quickshot> Red_HamsterX/ titeuf_87 how easy is it to auto bank out the part of a window?
<luke-quickshot> *blank
<dutchie> ARGH
 * dutchie throws the last hour's work in the bin
<luke-quickshot> dutchie, I feel your pain
<luke-quickshot> any one know why there is no network icon in the quickshot user?
<dutchie> OOOOOOOH GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
<luke-quickshot> is Tom Cantara here?
<ubuntujenkins> any answers for luke-quickshot can be aimed at ubuntujenkins as it is the same person
 * ubuntujenkins has done 25 sample screenshots
<daker> goof
<daker> d
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk is it possible to make the screenshots that are in the manual also apear in the screeshots log please?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, it's not godbyk its godbyk's ghost :)
<ubuntujenkins> I think its a sign i should go to bed :-)
<daker> may be
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie have you got the ppa set up yet?
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: nah, that's all the work I just threw in the bin
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool I need a screenshot of a ppa so I thought i should use ours. Is there anything i can do to help?
<dutchie> nah, no, it's fine
<dutchie> I'll sort it in the morning
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, what was your question from earlier?
<titeuf_87> sorry bit late, but family came over and I couldn't be around
<ubuntujenkins> how easy is it to auto bank out the part of a window?
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<ubuntujenkins> *blank
<ubuntujenkins> there is a screenshot of the user accounts window but we can't rally show peoples account names I was wonering if we could auto blank part of it out
<titeuf_87> hmm, right now it's not possible but it should be easy enough to add, just like only getting a certain rectangle of the window
<ubuntujenkins> ok that shoulc be alright
<titeuf_87> where do you need this?
<ubuntujenkins> user accounts window system > admin... > users and groups
<godbyk> Okay, Internet is really spotty here today.
<daker> hhh
<godbyk> gonna try to turn auto-update back on for you daker.
<godbyk> (if I can type the commands before the internet dies again!)
<daker> oki
<godbyk> I re-enabled auto-update
<godbyk> trying to run it manually now to get it up to speed
<godbyk> I hate my ISP.
<godbyk> Internet goes down all the time.
<godbyk> Drives me nutes.
<godbyk> nuts.
<godbyk> Called tech support.
<godbyk> They didn't know what the problem was.
<godbyk> But they scheduled a tech to come around tomorrow afternoon.
<godbyk> Of course, the Internet will be fine by then.
<ubuntujenkins> alwasy is
<godbyk> But I may let them come anyway to test the signal on the line.
<godbyk> Okay, website should be updated now.
<godbyk> 540 bugs? holy cow!
<ubuntujenkins> I know
<godbyk> are we finding new bugs all the time or mostly dupes or what?
<ubuntujenkins> I am unsure with so many now its hard to find duplicates
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, I'm going to take a look tomorrow at your problem with the various resolution windows, didn't have the time for it today
<titeuf_87> going to bed now, night all
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: thansk and night
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I saw your msg about screenshots.
<godbyk> you want the screenshots command to add something to the screenshots.log file, too?
<ubuntujenkins> please what with the rouge screenshots in there we are way over 50 and i can't keep track of them looking at the document its self
 * ubuntujenkins what my log out button is read
<ubuntujenkins> *red
<ubuntujenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-24
<Raylton> hi !
<Raylton> someone online?
<Red_HamsterX> Nope.
<Raylton> =P i'm sorry...
<Raylton> i'm from wikibooks pt
<Raylton> como posso me envolver na traduÃ§Ã£o?
<Raylton> sorry! a say...
<Raylton> how can I get involved in translation?
<Raylton> and
<Raylton> which the license of the manual?
<Raylton> alguem pode me  ajudar com isso?
<Raylton> please
<Raylton> sorry again
<Red_HamsterX> If you can wait a couple of hours, ask humphreybc when he's online.
<Raylton> can someone help me with this?
<Red_HamsterX> Or godbyk or ubuntujenkins.
<Red_HamsterX> Nobody who's around right now.
<Red_HamsterX> But your help would be appreciated.
<Raylton> certo....
<Raylton> certo... entÃ£o eu apareco depois
<Raylton> sure ... then I showed up after
<Raylton> Tank's  Red_HamsterX!
<Red_HamsterX> You can just stay in the channel. I'll let them know as soon as they're around, if you on't see them first.
<Raylton> anything I'm here: http://pt.wikibooks.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Raylton_P._Sousa
<Red_HamsterX> I speak French, if it would be helpful for me to try to say things in that language.
<Raylton> do not worry if you want to talk to me in English, no problem
<Raylton> or possibly French
<Raylton> will leave now ... bye for hours
<Raylton> tank's again!
<Raylton> bye! =D
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, we had a visit from Raylton, someone associated with pt.wikibooks.org, looking to get involved with the translation project. He said he'd be back in a few hours.
<Red_HamsterX> I wasn't sure where to direct him.
<godbyk> Cool.
<godbyk> I would point him at the translators page on the wiki
<Red_HamsterX> Link?
<godbyk> (my Internet connection is crap today.
<godbyk> only comes up for a couple minutes at a time.)
<Red_HamsterX> :(
<Red_HamsterX> No link, then.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll find it.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/translators
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, I just found it.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll let him know when he returns.
<godbyk> k
<humphreybc> phew
<humphreybc> that was close
<humphreybc> i was *this close* to reinstalling lcid
<humphreybc> lucid*
<humphreybc> btw i printed the manual at uni today
<humphreybc> double sided, got it bound
<humphreybc> it looks AMAZING
<donri> Is it done enough to print?
<humphreybc> no but i wanted to print it so I can go through with a red pen and mark stuff for editing
<donri> Ah. :)
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> it's going to take me a while
<donri> (Silly how computers still somewhat fail at such tasks. Need better HIDs!)
<donri> I suppose a tablet could do somewhat well.
<donri> But who owns one.
<humphreybc> no one :P
<donri> Are you using any spell correction software on the manual?
<humphreybc> nope
<donri> aspell -t check file.tex
<humphreybc> hrm
<donri> No idea how that works with your translation setup.
<humphreybc> omg
<humphreybc> 450 bloody bug reports now
<godbyk> humphreybc: how many bugs did you want by the end of the week? :)
<humphreybc> godbyk well, not sure
<humphreybc> =|
<humphreybc> oh yeah godbyk my computer is fixed now
<humphreybc> bloody gnome-panwl
<godbyk> my Internet is back up.. for the time being, at least.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> the manual looks so beautiful
<godbyk> trying to run a new build of all the translations and get them uploaded.
<humphreybc> i took some photos of it
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> will put them on flickr and facebook
<humphreybc> the typeface is unbelievable
<humphreybc> i love it
<godbyk> how do the printed screenshots look?
<humphreybc> I was showing all my flatmates and they were like "I don't care"
<humphreybc> the printed screens look good
<godbyk> and do you see why those blank pages are there now? :)
<godbyk> that's good.
<humphreybc> great, actually
<humphreybc> the printed screens are fantastic
<humphreybc> it looks f**king professional
<humphreybc> can't wait to see it in full colour with screenshots
 * humphreybc might have to get every single language printed just for himself
<godbyk> It always looks a lot nicer when you've printed and bound it, though.  The whole idea of, 'Hey, this is a *book*!' hits home then.
<humphreybc> yeah totally
<godbyk> I had the same feeling when I had that other book printed through lulu.
<godbyk> Was kinda neat.
<godbyk> Went from, 'Meh, it's a nice-looking PDF.' to 'Holy crap, this is a book!'
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> i can't wait to see this as a book with a thick cover and stuff
<humphreybc> and if we print it as a book, should we do it a bit smaller than A4?
<godbyk> If we go through lulu.com, we're limited to a selection of page sizes.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> such as?
<humphreybc> halfway between A5 and A4 would look good
<godbyk> pulling up the site now..
<humphreybc> A4.5...
<godbyk> Nice.. they have a lot more sizes than they used to: http://www.lulu.com/publish/books/?cid=nav_bks
<godbyk> The last book I did was 6x9 inches because they had soft-cover and hard-cover books that could use 6x9-inch pages.
<godbyk> Ours is already designed for letter and A4.
<godbyk> So that'd be the simplest for us..
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> letter is smaller than A4 right?
<godbyk> It wider and shorter, if I remember correctly.
<godbyk> But they're on par with each other.
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> it would be nicer if it was thicker and a smaller surface area
<humphreybc> at the moment it looks more like a course book than an operating system manual
<humphreybc> A4 is just a generic size, so it doesn't have that whole "Ooo custom size therefore it MUST be professional" thing
<godbyk> Just plugging in some numbers to their calculator:
<humphreybc> I know i'm being picky
<godbyk> Standard paper, paperback cover, black and white, US letter size, perfect bound, 180 pages x 1 copy = US$10.00
<humphreybc> wow that's cheap
<humphreybc> oh but black and white
<humphreybc> boo
<godbyk> Let me see what paper sizes they offer.
<godbyk> Color is expensive.
<godbyk> Same settings, but with color = $41.50
<humphreybc> wow
<godbyk> Hardcover options only allow for 8.25"x10.75" or 6"x9".
<humphreybc> we can do options for both right?
<humphreybc> hardcover would be awesome
<godbyk> Sure, we can publish a color version and a B&W version, a paperback and hard-cover edition, etc.
<humphreybc> yay!
<godbyk> But I'd prefer not to have to fiddle with too many paper sizes.
 * humphreybc is going to get the hardcover colour version 
<godbyk> And too many options will just confuse people, so we should choose carefully.
<humphreybc> what's shipping to NZ?
<humphreybc> we can do what windows do and have three options
<godbyk> Hardcover color (at the larger paper size) will cost ~$50 USD.
<humphreybc> "Basic" "Premium" and "Ultimate" haha
<godbyk> heh
<humphreybc> Basic is just paperback, US letter, black and white
<humphreybc> premium is paperback, US letter, colour
<humphreybc> ultimate is hardback, colour
<humphreybc> obviously we can think of better names
<godbyk> If we use a lower-quality paper, we can get it cheaper (for B&W).  Down to $6.74 instead of $10.
<humphreybc> that's cool
<godbyk> Fresh builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> did you update the draft one?
<godbyk> not yet
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-04-in-real-life/
<godbyk> Just wait 'til it's properly bound. :)
<humphreybc> :D
<godbyk> I'll find my other lulu books and take pics a bit later for ya.
<humphreybc> do lulu charge much for shipping?
<godbyk> I don't recall.
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> now, time to take out the red pen
<humphreybc> the wide margin is good for editing
<humphreybc> but i still think it's a tad too wide
<humphreybc> just a tad though
<humphreybc> :P
 * humphreybc has Beethoven's symphony #6 playing while editing
 * godbyk is watching Lost and will edit some more afterward. :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> oh btw, if I haven't made it clear: I don't want to see one single error in the manual.
<humphreybc> we are going to set the quality standard incredibly high
<humphreybc> so that means no errors at all.
 * humphreybc now has 20 euros riding on it
<humphreybc> I made a bet with Martin. If he finds an error in the final english publication, I have to give him 20 euro at UDS.
<humphreybc> if he cannot find an error, he has to give me 20 euro.
<godbyk> How much will you pay me to ensure that you win the bet? ;-)
<humphreybc> hahah
<humphreybc> nothing, but i'll hurt you if i lose.
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> If only you weren't halfway around the world, that threat might hold a bit more power. :-P
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> now, get editing! I'm halfway through the installation chapter. Will make all my changes soon
<humphreybc> I'm going to fix the errors at the end of each chapter before moving on.
<humphreybc> I must say, the prologue only had a couple of errors... :)
<humphreybc> i'm seeing lots of places for margin notes, so i'll be putting some more in
<godbyk> how are we doing at incorporating the changes from the spreadsheet?
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> looks like they're being assigned quickly. are they getting fixed quickly, too?
<humphreybc> sort of
<humphreybc> i can't do two things at once
<godbyk> or do we need to break it down and assign more chapters to people?
<humphreybc> all of the spelling and grammar bugs i will pick up in my sweep
<humphreybc> jamin and bryan are doing okay with the spreadsheet bugs
<humphreybc> jamin has thursday and friday off work so we should be able to nail most of them
<humphreybc> lots of duplicates
<humphreybc> overall, we're doing pretty good
<godbyk> I might grab one chapter's worth of bugs from the spreadsheet, fix them, and then make any other edits I see in the chapter myself.  (If that's okay.)
<godbyk> Marking it up on paper and then filing a ton of bugs per page is a bit slow.
<humphreybc> sure, go for it
<humphreybc> don't file the bugs you've found on paper
<humphreybc> just fix them
<godbyk> Any specific chapter you want me to tackle first?
<humphreybc> chapter 5
<humphreybc> wolter's one
<humphreybc> after I fix these bugs i'll be able to say with confidence that the prologue and installation chapters are perfect
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> Okay. Chapter 5 it is.
<humphreybc> what chapter is the me menu discussed in?
<humphreybc> godbyk, i have a sentence here that i'm not sure about
<humphreybc> it goes like this
<humphreybc> Under 'What is your name?', type in your full name.
<humphreybc> the whole ?', thing is a bit odd
<godbyk> It is a bit awkward.  You could probably leave the comma out there, as the prepositional phrase "Under [blah]" is short enough that it doesn't need the comma.
<godbyk> You should use double quotes, though.
<godbyk> I'd rephrase:  Type in your full name under ``What is your name?''
<godbyk> Then you don't need the comma.
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> "Now you need to decide on your computer's name."
<humphreybc> apostrophe needed for computer?
<godbyk> yep
<godbyk> it's possessive
<godbyk> the name belonging to the computer.
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> we need someone to write about the migration assistant
<humphreybc> and also wubi.
<humphreybc> i might see if i can sort that out
<godbyk> They'd better hurry. :)
<humphreybc> =|
<donri> How stable is wubi though? Updating dad's wubi install kinda fucked it up several times until it completely stopped booting.
<Red_HamsterX> Does "error", in the context of your bet, extend to syntax/punctuation?
<donri> 9.10.
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: whether it is an error is decided by Alan Pope :)
<Red_HamsterX> So many names!
<humphreybc> I think errors are grammar, punctuation, spelling, formatting, missing words etc
<humphreybc> inconsistencies in formatting
<humphreybc> donri: well wubi is included with Ubuntu by default so we need to cover it
 * humphreybc is trying to think of a place to put the information about the file system structure
<Red_HamsterX> As much as I love defining editorial styles and sticking to them, I don't see myself having enough free time to grammar-nazi 150+ pages. :(
<donri> Wubi is lovely if it works, but I think does more harm than good if it can't handle things like updates, and updates are enabled by default.
<Red_HamsterX> How much does an average user need to know about the filesystem?
<humphreybc> not a whole lot, but it might be helpful to mention how it works and is different to their C drive etc
<humphreybc> also how mounting drives/ USB flash disks get incorporated into the directory structure
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, right. I completely forgot about the concept of drives.
 * humphreybc has finished editing prologue and installation, now to make changes
<Red_HamsterX> I thought you were going to explain something like the difference between bin and sbin and how /usr/local/ works under Debian.
 * Red_HamsterX skims the chapters to provide an opinion.
<Red_HamsterX> I'd probably expect to see it in a sub-section at the start of Chapter 3. Something like "Where are my files?" or "How can I share my files with others?"
<Red_HamsterX> Though both of those questions need to be covered by a single header...
<Red_HamsterX> And "file system" is a term I'm sure my mother wouldn't understand.
<Red_HamsterX> "CDs and USB keys: what you need to know"?
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> godbyk, the first bug I found was in the contents
<humphreybc> the glossary isn't listed in the contents
<humphreybc> there appears to be a space reserved for it however
<godbyk> Space reserved for it?
<humphreybc> yeah, it's weird
<godbyk> okay. assign me a bug and I'll look at it when I'm done with this chapter.
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> look at the suggestion for row 348
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> good man
<humphreybc> godbyk, what's the correct syntax for chapter links?
<godbyk> \chaplink{ch:label}
<humphreybc> thought so
<godbyk> If fixed almost all the bugs listed for this chapter. I'm going to print it out and edit it myself now, too.
<humphreybc> awesome
<godbyk> how are yours coming along?
<humphreybc> good, i've marked all the bugs on paper for prologue and installation
<humphreybc> just making changes in tex now
<humphreybc> should finish the entire manual by sunday
<godbyk> cool
<humphreybc> I'm thinking, do we need our launchpad and the planet websites under contact details?
<humphreybc> I would just go for home page, wiki and email
<godbyk> Probably not.
<humphreybc> or perhaps just our website and email
<godbyk> Home page, email, and maybe IRC.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> IRC sounds good
<godbyk> The wiki content should get moved over to our own site.
<humphreybc> yeah it will do eventually
<godbyk> I'm gonna sit across the room and scribble on the printout of this chapter.
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> feel free to ping me if you need anything.
<humphreybc> how do I insert a # ?
<humphreybc> godbyk?
<godbyk> Oh, sure, wait until I just get settled in!
<godbyk> Use \#
<humphreybc> thanks
<godbyk> Didn't you attend my LaTeX tutorial session?  :)
<humphreybc> shush
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/ubuntu-manual/talks/latex-handout.pdf
<humphreybc> if you do the "conventions" section at the end of the prologue, we can mark the prologue as completely finished.
<humphreybc> anyone know what the wording is on the button that is in the installer, where you can let Ubuntu detect your keyboard?
<humphreybc> I've got it in here as "Guess" but I think it's something like "Let Ubuntu try to detect your keyboard"
<godbyk> I don't remember what it said.
<donri> humphreybc, I think it says "Guess", yes.
<humphreybc> oh really?
<humphreybc> that's weird
<donri> I recall thinking it was somewhat cryptic, when I installed yesterdayish.
<ubuntujenkins> MORE BUGS!
<humphreybc> lol
<donri> Bugs om nom nom.
<ubuntujenkins> I think we should sort the spread sheet by page no we can sort duplicates easiyer then
<humphreybc> that's a good idea
<godbyk> go for it.
<godbyk> that's what I did.
<godbyk> I copied the spreadsheet to a local spreadsheet.
<godbyk> then filtered for the pages in the chapter I was editing.
<godbyk> you'll want to sort by both rev and page num.
<godbyk> (since the pages change from revision to revision)
<godbyk> when you guys have finished with the bulk of the edits you're working on, give me a holler and I'll upload a new draft.
<ubuntujenkins> can we do it on the main sheet or will it mess the form up?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: good question.
<godbyk> I'm pretty sure we can sort and it'll be fine.
<godbyk> I don't know if auto-updates will be sorted or not.
<ubuntujenkins> I guess the auto-updates will not be sorted, I have to run to lectures now I will lok later
<godbyk> k
<nisshh> hey all
<donri> Hello some.
<nisshh> hey donri, havent seen you in here before, you a team member?
<donri> I'm just a consumer who does no good.
<humphreybc> haha
<nisshh> hehe
 * humphreybc has finished editing the hell out of the prologue, installation and The Ubuntu Desktop chapters
<nisshh> nice
<humphreybc> godbyk, howcome italics don't work in margin notes?
<godbyk> humphreybc: because there is no italic sans serif font.
<humphreybc> oh
 * humphreybc has finished editing chapter 2, committing and pushing
<humphreybc> okay pushed
<humphreybc> everyone pull and make the manual and observe the beauty that is the prologue, chapters 1 and 2
<donri> Is http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ up to date?
<humphreybc> should be
<humphreybc> oh godbyk, can you please update the draft
<godbyk> sure.
<godbyk> gimme a sec.
<humphreybc> hopefully we'll make some people happy as there should be 0 errors in the first three chapters now :D
<humphreybc> okay maybe not 0, I have to go back through them and double check
<godbyk> pushing
<humphreybc> swell
<godbyk> pushed
<donri> The wrapping algorithm is a little weird, do you have any control over it?
<donri> Page 7, a URL breaks after "http:".
<humphreybc> yeah a lot of URLs are breaking after the http bit
<godbyk> URLs are a pain in the butt to wrap
<donri> Is it really "on-line"?
<godbyk> I'm okay with online.
<donri> Also, are non-technicals familiar with the term "docs"?
<godbyk> spell out 'docs' -> documentation
<donri> "on-line docs" in the margin notes on page 7.
<donri> I read somewhere you prefer guided clicks to arrows, the first such click-steps are arrowed on page 7. "System â Help and Support".
<donri> Why is it wrapping "connecting" into "connect-ing"?
<godbyk> Because it can?
<humphreybc> fix the wrapping you cock godbyk :)
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> LaTeX's wrapping algorithm is literally the best in existence. :)
<humphreybc> uh hu
<humphreybc> is that why it's stuck a screenshot just before the last word in a paragraph
<humphreybc> so it goes blah blah blah blah.... SCREENSHOT.... "packages."
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> heh.
<humphreybc> I destroyed all of the nice formatting in chapter 2
<humphreybc> by putting in more screenshots and margin notes
<humphreybc> the worst ones are the times where it has the section header at the bottom of one page, then it has the next bit on the next page
<godbyk> It has to fill the page in any way it can.
<godbyk> Once all the writing is truly finalized, I'll be tweaking the formatting to make it all awesome.
<donri> Does a colon feel more natural after "Ask taken from the Ubuntu website, [URL]." instead of the period (ubuntu promise, page 8)?
 * humphreybc needs food
<donri> (humphreybc wanted perfection, so I'm going OCD on this. Ignore me whenever you feel like it. :))
<godbyk> donri: OCD away!
<godbyk> I'm saving my OCDing until later this week. :)
<donri> I can't save OCDing, as I actually have it.
<humphreybc> lolo
<godbyk> I nit-pick a LOT when it comes to editing things like this.
<humphreybc> the manual isn't long enough
<humphreybc> by the way
<godbyk> So it's better if I save my energy to find the small bugs at the end than to freak out about 20 bugs per page right now. :)
<donri> Missing a period in the margin note on page 8.
<godbyk> I'll let others find the obvious bugs. :)
<humphreybc> I purposely left out some periods where the margin note ends with a URL.
<donri> Feels wrong to me.
<godbyk> You should add the periods.
<humphreybc> just in case people think the period is part of the URL when they're reading it off the page
<godbyk> It's a complete sentence.
<humphreybc> sigh
<godbyk> Some notes I made about mistakes I kept seeing over and over again:
<godbyk> Use American quotation marks: `` and ''.  Also, following the (insane) punctuation rules, too.  So commas and a lot of other punctuation goes inside the quotation marks.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> that's what we do in NZ too
<godbyk> Title case chapter headings and sentence case section headings.  (I think humphreybc fixed most these already.)
<godbyk> Use serial commas.
<humphreybc> "Sam," said the shop attendant, "Sam, what's the matter?"
<godbyk> Make sure there are periods at the end of the sidenotes.
<godbyk> humphreybc: yep.
<humphreybc> that was actually a pretty nice line of dialogue, if I don't say so myself
<humphreybc> (writing convincing natural sounding dialogue is the hardest thing in fiction writing)
<donri> BTW, B/W will suck and if it's a difference of a few dollars... make the colored version clearly available and note its superior awesomeness.
<humphreybc> It's not really a difference of a "few" dollars
<humphreybc> try like, 10x more expensive
<godbyk> Well, 4x as expensive. :)
<humphreybc> $6 USD or $50?
<donri> Oh, I thought it was $6 vs $10.
<humphreybc> Or is that for the hardback version?
<godbyk> Lemme look again.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> did you include a brick in your latest push godbyk
<humphreybc> the pull is quite large
<godbyk> Added a PDF. :)
<donri> What VCS are you guys using?
<godbyk> Standard paper (as opposed to the cheapskate paper), paperback, black and white, US letter size, perfect bound, 180 pages (estimating), single purchase = $10
<godbyk> donri: bzr
<donri> Good. :)
<humphreybc> not an SVN guy then?
<humphreybc> I think we'll go for that one as our baseline godbyk
<godbyk> Same but with color = $41.50
<donri> I'm an ex-gitting bazaar enthusiast.
<humphreybc> and same with colour and hardback?
<humphreybc> (do we really need hardback?)
<humphreybc> (i'm going to say no)
<godbyk> $51 (with slightly smaller pages)
<donri> Some people probably don't mind those dollars, and hardback feels way more quality.
 * humphreybc just pushed fixes to missing periods
<humphreybc> $51USD with exchange rate + shipping to countries outside of the US would be pricey
<donri> Just provide cheaper options.
<donri> Is this print on demand?
<godbyk> humphreybc: With an extra note, even: This product is manufactured in the U.S. Shipping rates will be high for customers outside of the U.S.
<godbyk> donri: yeah.  lulu.com
<donri> Do they only print in the U.S. though?
<humphreybc> I say we do versions, both in paperback to not over confuse anyone. We're not big enough or complicated enough to deserve "hardback" status, and because we release a new version every 6 months, it's not like we have to be hardback because we don't have to last that long till the new one is released
<humphreybc> do two versions*
<humphreybc> books that only come out once every 10 years or so get hardback editions
<godbyk> plus, we'll have all those translations to deal with.
<humphreybc> I think paperback would work fine for our needs
<humphreybc> so we could have Basic which is the $10 one in black and white, and Colour which is the $47 one
<humphreybc> Colour could be called "Premium" or something
<donri> humphreybc, hardbacks for LTS? :)
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> donri: didn't think about that
<humphreybc> how will the translated manuals work kevin?
<humphreybc> (for publishing)
<godbyk> same way
<godbyk> I just upload a PDF.
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> one at a time?
<godbyk> yep
<humphreybc> righto
<humphreybc> each translated PDF will need to be signed off
<godbyk> yep
<donri> $47 and $51 isn't that different.
<godbyk> they'll have to be edited, too.
<humphreybc> to ensure we aren't uploading any low quality ones, you know, with strings missing or bad formatting
<humphreybc> we could do a paperback black and white edition for $10 and then a hardback colour version for $51
 * humphreybc hates to think how much it's going to cost me to get the hardback version
<donri> Maybe I could help with the Swedish translation.
<humphreybc> $51 USD in NZD is about $80 NZD + shipping to NZ which would be huge
<humphreybc> over $100 probably, for a manual that I am team leader for :P
<humphreybc> i wonder if it would be cheaper if someone stateside bought one for me and shipped it to me, instead of lulu doing it
<godbyk> Or have someone drop it off at a conference you're at or something.
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> like... UDS?
<humphreybc> cough
<humphreybc> I'd probably buy at least two copies, so I can give mum one
<godbyk> I don't know if they'll ship in time for UDS or not.
<humphreybc> well we'll have to stick them on lulu before the 29th
<humphreybc> so they can be ordered on the 29th
<humphreybc> I wonder if it would be cheaper for me to get it printed in colour here
<humphreybc> James Holland wants to sell our manual along with a CD and a support package
<humphreybc> "On Lulu is there a way to save a project so people can order runs of it themselves? I'm looking at selling this along with a CD and support package."
<humphreybc> I guess he's allowed to do that
<humphreybc> it would be cool if we could bundle a CD with it
<godbyk> Yeah, he can do that.
<humphreybc> you know how those books have the CDs in the back cover
<godbyk> And if you order in bulk, the prices go down.
 * humphreybc should order in bulk and sell them on trademe
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> I don't know about putting the CD in the book.  But you can publish/order CDs via lulu.com, too.
<donri> A proper, pressed shipit-like CD.
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> Canonical should do an order for like 5000 and give them away to people
<humphreybc> especially people at UDS...
<humphreybc> should come with the free t shirt you get for going to UDS
<humphreybc> :D
<godbyk> heh
<humphreybc> "here, have this t shirt and this lovely book"
 * humphreybc needs to get chips
<humphreybc> back soon
<donri> "Also, here are some daring pictures of Mark."
<humphreybc> hahaha
<donri> Hey, that's a good idea for the manual cover.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> everyone has this fascination with Mark
<humphreybc> it's quite comical
<humphreybc> and i have hot chips now
<humphreybc> it's really quite cold
<donri> Page 9, margin notes, weird chapter link.
<humphreybc> have you been reading all this time?
<donri> websites such as "YouTube and Google.com" my OCD thinks this is somewhat inconsistent.
<donri> Nope.
<humphreybc> did the .com because google owns youtube
<humphreybc> ill probably change it
<donri> And suddenly the URL-ending margin note does end in a period. At least be consistent! :)
<humphreybc> hey
<humphreybc> i told you to pull
<humphreybc> i fixed them all
<donri> rev 561?
<humphreybc> i'll check hang on
<humphreybc> rev 563
<humphreybc> if you pull, they'll be fixed
<humphreybc> oh but do you not have latex?
<donri> Then the builds site is lagging behind.
<humphreybc> yeah it is
<humphreybc> because godbyk has to manually run each build
<godbyk> right
<donri> Oh. :(
<humphreybc> and he only does it when he feels like it's necessary :)
<godbyk> though I ran it when you told me to push the new pdf.
<godbyk> you didn't have the periods then.
<donri> I totally thought that was automated.
<humphreybc> nah
<humphreybc> do you think the bit on Wubi should be before the main installation instructions?
<humphreybc> at the moment it's not given in enough detail so i just included it near the end of the installation chapter as a sort of "after thought" type mention and explanation of what it is
<godbyk> no
<godbyk> I'd do wubi afterward as an alternative.
<donri> Maybe hint at its existence first, referring to its section.
<humphreybc> ah mattgriffin
<humphreybc> just who I need to see :)
<mattgriffin> heh
<humphreybc> i'm sure you know what I'm going to say :P
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: speak softly. just woke up
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> okay so we're 6 days away from the writing freeze and don't have any documentation on rhythmbox, the music store or ubuntu one
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: er... the rbox and music store stuff is done. it's in my branch. what do you want me to do next?
<humphreybc> what format is it in?
<humphreybc> plain text?
<ubuntujenkins> Are its in bzr branch lp:~mattgriffin/ubuntu-manual/rbox-docs
<mattgriffin> ubuntujenkins: si
 * humphreybc grabs the branch
 * ubuntujenkins all ready doing it
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> so we need to put it into the manual and presumably add latex code to it
<humphreybc> mattgriffin, have you got some documentation for Ubuntu One?
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: not yet. i'll have to get to it during my afternoon.
<humphreybc> okay cool
<humphreybc> you don't have any official docs anywhere you can just copy?
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/400500/ ryhtam box docs
<humphreybc> oh matt, you've formatted it in latex!
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: most of the docs already do exist in our tutorials but some changes and additions are needed for some of the 10.04 enhancements and new features - wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials
<humphreybc> okay
<ubuntujenkins> mattgriffin do you want to add it to main?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: we have to work out where to put it first
<humphreybc> hold on
<ubuntujenkins> the file for it is there
<humphreybc> okay, leave it to me, i'll put it in main and push
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: thanks. would i typically "Propose for merging"
<humphreybc> mattgriffin: nah, we don't do merges around here, no itme
<humphreybc> time*
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool
<mattgriffin> ok
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> matt, check out http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-04-in-real-life/
<mattgriffin> nice
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> it's going to look great when it's finished and translated
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we need to sort out the screenshots we are now way over 52 and not all of them show in the screenshots log
<humphreybc> yeah
<ubuntujenkins> also how are we going to get this one? Chapter 1, page 20: Wubi in Windows 7
<ubuntujenkins> in all languages?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> it'll have to be
<ubuntujenkins> can someone who has windows do a sample please?
<ubuntujenkins> who asked for that screenshot?
<humphreybc> me
<ubuntujenkins> grrr you are doing them all then :-P
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> I think we will have to cu abut 10 screenshots if we wan tto stick to 50
<humphreybc> 50 isn't as important now as it used to be
<humphreybc> there are some parts that desperately need screenshots
<humphreybc> we can take out some of the ones taken by that dude
<humphreybc> Sarantan
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: the screenshots look good when printed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4459042125/sizes/o/
<ubuntujenkins> planing to I was going to see which ones are important
<ubuntujenkins> not bad suprizingly good
<humphreybc> they're really nice
<humphreybc> that photo doesn't do justice
<humphreybc> will be really nice in colour and printed with a proper book press
<ubuntujenkins> I have done about 25 sample screenshots so far I just need to work out how to do half of the others.
<humphreybc> awesome
<ubuntujenkins> do you have a windows 7 box?
<humphreybc> godbyk and I were talking about getting all the shots in english now
<humphreybc> nope i don't sorry
<humphreybc> someone will though
<ubuntujenkins> I am doing the english ones this week
<humphreybc> fantastic :)
<ubuntujenkins> we need them as samples for quickshot
<humphreybc> with default theme and stuff?
<ubuntujenkins> yep of course and at the right resolution
<humphreybc> you're a legend
<ubuntujenkins> erm ok
<humphreybc> (it's a new zealand thing)
<humphreybc> means you're wicked, awesome
<humphreybc> etc
<godbyk> You guys have fun with that. I'm off to bed.  (It's 6:30 in the morning here.) :)
<ubuntujenkins> I know, just not sure I am that amazing :-)
<ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
<humphreybc> ha
<humphreybc> see ya kevin
<godbyk> Ta!
<ubuntujenkins> I think some of the screenshots can be used in all languages
<ubuntujenkins> someone needs to format Sarantan stuff
<humphreybc> ugh
<ubuntujenkins> I am thinking of removing all but the screenshot that shows you where the bluetooth menu is
<ubuntujenkins> some of it is ok but it needs some work
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> what did he actually add?
<ubuntujenkins> sound and bluetooth so far one sound screen that is no help and all of the stages in the bluetootj setup
<humphreybc> mattgriffin: what's your canonical email address?
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: matt.griffin@canonical.com
<humphreybc> the bluetooth setup can be useful i guess
<humphreybc> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> it is usefull but each screen isn't needed they are wel described and relitily simple
<humphreybc> yeah
<ubuntujenkins> *relativley
<ubuntujenkins> If we keep them then we should have e-mail accout setup screens and empathy and all of the gwibber ones
<humphreybc> we're not going to keep those ones
<ubuntujenkins> good I shall remove them now
 * humphreybc is pushing the rbox docs in the manual now
<ubuntujenkins> ok
<humphreybc> so pull before you make any changes to anything please :)
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: when do you estimate you'll have all of the screenshots completed in english?
<ubuntujenkins> erm hopefully friday night I have a test this week and i am having issues with virtualbox
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> great
<ubuntujenkins> if i am lucky 70% tonight
<humphreybc> start putting them in main
<humphreybc> but don't remove the screenshotTODO command that contains the description
<humphreybc> just comment it for now
<ubuntujenkins> will, do I need godbyk to make the ones that are already there to show in the screenshot log
<humphreybc> true, talk to him
<humphreybc> we need to make sure we finalize all the wording for the captions before writing freeze
<ubuntujenkins> I asked hm but he had dogy internet
<humphreybc> so if we have the screenshots it'll be much easier to write good captions
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<humphreybc> somehow we need to have the descriptions remain so you guys can put them into quickshot
<godbyk-android2> Remind me again when I wake up.
<humphreybc> godbyk-android2: okay
<humphreybc> i'll email you now :)
<ubuntujenkins> will do godbyk-android2
<ubuntujenkins> also i ahev aproblem with no network icon in the quickshot user
<humphreybc> have you tried a killall gnome-panel?
<humphreybc> that usually fixes it
<ubuntujenkins> I will try it in a moment
 * ubuntujenkins screenshots changes pushed
<ubuntujenkins> mattgriffin comments on my bug :-)
<mattgriffin> ubuntujenkins: which one was that?
<ubuntujenkins> bug 544458
<ubuntujenkins> can't play all songs samples
<ubuntujenkins> bot bug #544458
<humphreybc> manualbot aint here
<humphreybc> he died :(
<ubuntujenkins> I just realized sad day
<mattgriffin> ubuntujenkins: yeah. that would be a cool feature. got a meeting in 2 hours to review all of the bugs so far so just getting ready.
<ubuntujenkins> amazon has it I found it anoying on first use
<ubuntujenkins> and seven digital site has it
<humphreybc> matt, you know my bugs
<humphreybc> :)
<luke-quickshot> humphreybc, killall gnome-panel doesn't help
<humphreybc> that sucks
<luke-quickshot> who wrote security?
<humphreybc> nisshh
<humphreybc> howcome?
<humphreybc> it needs a lot of work
<luke-quickshot> well he would like a screenshot of gufw but quickshot is an unprivaliged user and getting that screenshot is hard
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> forget it then
<luke-quickshot> one off the list
<luke-quickshot> what about chapter 2? This one is a good idea but is  also not possible NOT POSSIBLE - Chapter 2, page 27: Resize mouse pointer that appears when resizing window
<luke-quickshot> and who did chapter 1?
<humphreybc> i did chapter 1
<humphreybc> yeah the resizing mouse pointer thing might be a mission
<humphreybc> remove that.
<luke-quickshot> woo
<luke-quickshot> I like the idea though
<luke-quickshot> also why have we got two Chapter 1, page 12: Ubuntu Live CD `Welcome' screen
<luke-quickshot> Chapter 1, page 14: Ubuntu Live CD `Welcome' screen in chapter one
<luke-quickshot> are they ment to be the same thing?
<humphreybc> no
<humphreybc> one of them is now removed
<humphreybc> or should be
<humphreybc> I fixed that in like revision 561 or something
<luke-quickshot> ok the list in the wuickshot user is out of dat by a few hours i guess
<humphreybc> yeah
<luke-quickshot> humphreybc, are you running lucid?
<humphreybc> yep
<luke-quickshot> do you have a music cd?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> I'll take that screenshot for you soon :)
<luke-quickshot> thanks i have none at uni
<humphreybc> is it of the CD playlist screen
<humphreybc> ?
<luke-quickshot> nope
<humphreybc> if it's just of the main window there will be no music
<luke-quickshot> put the cd in and open up rytham box and just show the main screen. I think thats what mattgriffin ment by \screenshotTODO{Rhythmbox application with a CD inserted}
<humphreybc> mattgriffin: can you clarify please
<mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: yes
<humphreybc> okay cool
<luke-quickshot> thanks
<mattgriffin> thank you
<luke-quickshot> I will be back
<ubuntujenkins> jaminday1: are you editing any files at the moment?
<jaminday1> hey ubuntujenkins, no not right at this moment.
<jaminday1> I just got home and about to go to bed
<jaminday1> how come?
<ubuntujenkins> thats ok then I am adding screenshots thats all adn didn't want our work to clashif we edit the same file
<jaminday1> ah ok, no problem
<jaminday1> I'm off work next two days so in about 8 hours i'll be getting stuck into it good and proper
<jaminday1> 48 hour bug-fixing marrathon!
<ubuntujenkins> nice I will have done most of them by then
<jaminday1> *marathon
<jaminday1> cool good work
<jaminday1> How big a problem would it be if a screenshot changed as I go through tomorrow
<ubuntujenkins> As long as its not all of them, I expect you will want to change the captions I ahev removed some since last time you looked
<ubuntujenkins> *some screenshots
<jaminday1> ah ok. If there's any screenshot stuff that really needs changing i will let you know, but otherwise will try and keep things as is if possible
<ubuntujenkins> Thats fine with me.
<jaminday1> Will you be around tomorrow?
<jaminday1> (Well, might not be tomorrow for you)
<ubuntujenkins> erm I have a day of lectures I will leave irc on and just ping me I will look when i get back i am gmt time
<jaminday1> cool sounds good
<ubuntujenkins> bzr push
 * ubuntujenkins thinks this screenshot needs a crop http://imagebin.org/90168
<ubuntujenkins> is Elan Kugelmass here?
<Red_HamsterX> Cropped? Why? I like black.
<ubuntujenkins> i just seams a waste of ink
<ubuntujenkins>  there are 34 sample screenshots on the quickshot branch now
<Red_HamsterX> Yay.
<Red_HamsterX> Also, <sarcasm/>
<ubuntujenkins> there will be more soon
<Red_HamsterX> More sarcasm or reference screenshots?
<Red_HamsterX> I hope for both.
<ubuntujenkins> more screenshots
<dutchie> o/
<ubuntujenkins> hello dutchie o/
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<godbyk> Though I may have to disappear in a hurry when the Internet repair guy shows up.
<dutchie> "Hi, I'm here to fix The Internet"
<godbyk> (Of course the Internet is working right now, but I'm going to have him check the signal on the lines anyway.)
 * dutchie thinks that fixing the internet would require a very large spanner
<dutchie> and a colossal amount of duct tape
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> duck tape ftw
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins.
<godbyk> duct tape is awesome.
<ubuntujenkins>  have you seen the screenshots there are more
<ubuntujenkins> only 20 left to take
<godbyk> I was just reading through the bzr logs
<godbyk> nice!
<godbyk> So one thing we can do is leave the \screenshotTODO commands and I'll just make them write to the file but not draw anything in the PDF.
<ubuntujenkins> any thought on these 3 Chapter 8, page 136: Screenshot of a virtual terminal (i.e. ctrl-alt-F1)
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 8, page 137: GRUB screen with Rescue Mode option highlighted Chapter 1, page 20: Installation: The Ubuntu login window
<godbyk> The \screenshot command will draw an empty box and say 'file not found' if you point it at a non-existent file.
<godbyk> So that can serve as the placeholder.
<ubuntujenkins> that would work godbyk I haven't removed them
<godbyk> Oooh.. um.. fake them?
<ubuntujenkins> I knoticed I pointed it a the wrong file name
<godbyk> Or snag them from a virtualbox session?
<Red_HamsterX> Couldn't you also just pipe the file through sed/'grep -v' before compiling it?
<ubuntujenkins> I can't get a virtual box to go to 1024X786
<Red_HamsterX> 768*
<dutchie> my laptop is held together with duct tape
<godbyk> So's my brain.
<godbyk> I'm going to make a series of commits for simple, but global changes.  Like ensuring that "Internet" is always capitalized and "email" is spelled without the hyphen.  Will that adversely affect anyone at the moment?
<ubuntujenkins> not here
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> I'll brb. gonna fix a sandwich.
<Daker> hi @all
<ubuntujenkins> hello Daker
<Daker> working ?
<ubuntujenkins> revising
<godbyk> back
<godbyk> Internet repair guys will be here in about 10 minutes. Yay.
 * ubuntujenkins well humphreybc can't have his wubi screenshots, the wubi doesn't work in windows 7 (at the moment)
<godbyk> Okay, I'm back now.
<godbyk> We just replaced a bunch of the cable splitters with barrel connectors since I'm not using most of the connections anyway.
<godbyk> So that should improve the signal on the line and make my Internet work smoother.
<godbyk> We'll see how it goes, I guess.
<godbyk> :)
<ubuntujenkins> we shall in deed
 * dutchie has another shot at doing a deb package
<godbyk> dutchie: a deb for the manual or for quickshot?
<ubuntujenkins> manual
<dutchie> so we can have auto-updated dailies
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot is easy "quickly package"
<godbyk> nice.
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie debs look veyr hard
<dutchie> they are hard to do right
<dutchie> a cat has come to help
<godbyk> dutchie: Is it possible to pull down the latest .po files without affecting the translators?
<dutchie> you can make LP email them to you iirc
<godbyk> (Just so I can see how the various translations are progressing.)
<dutchie> godbyk: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+export
<godbyk> thanks.
<godbyk> and that'll just email me the files that I can dump into our po/ dir?
<ubuntujenkins> it e-mails you a link
<dutchie> to a tarball
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> you'd better stick around to hold my hand.  I don't want to bork something and have hundreds of angry translators storming my house. :)
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> don't think you can go too far wrong just extracting the tarball into the po dir
<dutchie> it's when you start mucking around with po4a deleting old translations that things can end up in a mess
<godbyk> gotcha.
<godbyk> Browsers used by visitors to ubuntu-manual.org:
<godbyk> Firefox: 57.67%
<godbyk> Chrome 27.04%
<godbyk> IE: 5.06%
<godbyk> Mozilla: 4.08%
<godbyk> Opera: 3.64%
<ubuntujenkins> nice
 * dutchie thinks the branch is far too big :O
<ubuntujenkins> I will be back I am going to do the installtion screenshot
<inetpro> godbyk: nice, and the actual numbers?
<godbyk> The number to match those percentages?  Or visitors each day?
<godbyk> The percentage align to 5519, 2588, 484, 390, and 348, respectively.
<godbyk> On March 22, we had 1,015 visitors.
<godbyk> Though that number may be a bit short because I didn't have the analytics running the entire time.
<godbyk> (I hadn't added the stats code to Daker's new site and just remembered later in the day.)
<godbyk> woohoo! new translations are here.
<godbyk> let me drop them in.
<godbyk> bah!
<godbyk> I have to rename them.
<godbyk> lame!
<godbyk> yay, bash!  for i in ubuntu-manual-*.po; do mv $i `echo $i | cut -d"-" -f3`; done
<godbyk> dutchie: do I want to use the .pot files that came from that launchpad tgz, too?
<ubuntujenkins> clean install in 15 minutes ubuntu rules
<godbyk> or will that hork the translators' work?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: nice!
<dutchie> godbyk: no, leave the .pot file as-is
<dutchie> godbyk: you know you can do that all in one go with suitable tar options?
<dutchie> namely --exclude=*.pot --transform='s/ubuntu-manual-(.*\.po)/\1/'
<dutchie> godbyk: can you give me a list of build-time dependencies (just for the non-localised version for now)?
<godbyk> dutchie: what kind of deps are you looking for?
<godbyk> the install-pkgs.sh lists most of them
<ubuntujenkins> is any one editing chapter 1?
<dutchie> are all of those really needed?
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: I think Ben is
<ubuntujenkins> now?
<godbyk> dutchie: and what command do those options apply to?
<dutchie> tar
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: more or less
<godbyk> well, they're needed to guarantee that any of the translations will compile.
<godbyk> you'll need all the TeX packages listed there.
<ubuntujenkins> he isn't viewing the bug doc dutchie, i just need to add the screenshots
<godbyk> but not all the fonts (Ubuntu pkgs)
<godbyk> ah, gotcha.  I didn't know what files were in the tarball, though. :)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: oh, go for it.
<godbyk> he's not actively editing right this moment.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't think so
<godbyk> crap.. I broke something. :-(
 * dutchie likes semi-transparent terminals
<ubuntujenkins> .me agrees
 * ubuntujenkins agrees
<dutchie> I can read the description off the website straight into my editor
<godbyk> I didn't break something, wolter did. ha!
 * godbyk was trying to figure out how adding two little commas broke the build!
<ubuntujenkins> what did he break it with?
<godbyk> as soon as I've fixed it, I'll let you know. :)
<ubuntujenkins> probably a typo we all make mistakes
<godbyk> I think it was adding \begin{comment} and \end{comment} in the middle of a list.
<godbyk> well, that fixed one problem.
<godbyk> now he's got a \then outside of the \menu command.
<godbyk> I understand making mistakes.  I make plenty of typos.
<godbyk> It would be helpful (and save me a lot of grief) if people would try compiling their stuff before they commit it, though.
<ubuntujenkins> true, i always do \textbf{} and \textfb{}
<godbyk> Spurious closing brace.
<godbyk> I think it's compiling okay now.
<godbyk> lemme commit those fixes
<godbyk> okay, pushed.
<ubuntujenkins> ta
<dutchie> that's going to wreak havoc with my debianisation
<godbyk> heh.
<godbyk> aren't you just wrapping a PDF up into a deb?
<ubuntujenkins> if you wait 5 mins you can have screenshots as well
<godbyk> dutchie: obviously the solution is for you to be less efficient. :)
<ubuntujenkins> how do i find my bzr revison number?
<ubuntujenkins> bzr revno
<dutchie> godbyk: heh
<ubuntujenkins> pushed more screenshots :-)
<dutchie> godbyk: I'm having to completely rewrap the CC license
<dutchie> s/license/licence/
 * dutchie will retain his britishness
<godbyk> What do you mean "re-wrap"?
<dutchie> make look reasonable
<godbyk> Ah, go for it.
<dutchie> seeing as it was in a horrible format copied from the CC website
<godbyk> I haven't done any formatting of the licenses yet.
<godbyk> Others have done that for me. :)
<dutchie> yeah, I'm in plain text
<dutchie> it's a huge pain
<godbyk> Feel free to set the all-caps text inside the \smallcaps{STOP SHOUTING SO LOUDLY} command.
<ubuntujenkins> there are now 42 screenshots in the manual only 12 to go
<godbyk> It'll make things look 200% better right there.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can we see what it looks like if we centre the screenshots? some of the small ones look odd at the moment
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I originally had them centered and I was told to make them right-aligned. :)
<ubuntujenkins> I thought you did, tell the person who said right aligned to see what they think then
<ubuntujenkins> I think they now look silly
<godbyk> I think it may have been thorwil;. I don't recall.  But yet, I'll mention it.
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<ubuntujenkins> thorwill is an artist i am not
<godbyk> Did Ilya ever figure out what we're to do about the licenses?
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know, last thing i remeber was don't translate our selves if there isn't one in that language put the english one in
<godbyk> Right. But then we found a ton of translations on the CC site, and I thought there was some debate over whether we could/should use them.
<ubuntujenkins> I can't remember I think the idea was to use the ones from the cc site.
<ubuntujenkins> it was a while ago
<dutchie> I think we did decide to use the ones from CC
<dutchie> not sure though
<godbyk> just curious.
<godbyk> we should get that settled soonish.
<ubuntujenkins> what are people thoughts on this screenshot? Chapter 3, page 65: Small view of the message list, showing column headers and a few email messages my only thought it the messages, if you look in the empathy screenshots you will see i used quickshot@ubuntu-manual.org as an e-mail account
<ubuntujenkins> but we don't want every one to know the password if we set an account up as that
<ubuntujenkins> not that it is needed
<godbyk> I could set up a quickshot@ubuntu-manual.org account.
<ubuntujenkins> I guess we could create an empathy back up file for people to import but how easys would it be for people to work out the password for the accout?
<ubuntujenkins> and we don't want random e-mails showing in the window people could start sending al sorts to the account
 * dutchie thinks he is going to get quite deep into debian packaging black magic
<ubuntujenkins> write a script to do it each day, it looks sssssssssoooooooooo hard
<dutchie> once it's done, it's done
<dutchie> I just have to work out how to call dpkg-gencontrol and dpkg-deb
<ubuntujenkins> but how do you get it to auto update?
<dutchie> you just cron it to build every day
<ubuntujenkins> I am so glad quickshot is quickly
<godbyk> Whenever I've looked into packaging, I've been cared off.
<godbyk> Where's the one-button package creation tool?
<dutchie> debhelper 7 with the miniscule control file?
 * dutchie isn't using that ;)
 * dutchie is doing it by hand
<godbyk> that doesn't sound fun.
<dutchie> top tip: do not try and inhale muffins
<ubuntujenkins> what falvor?
<ubuntujenkins> *flavour?
<dutchie> home-made banana
<ubuntujenkins> nom nom I had and orange and rasin today
<godbyk> New translations/builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> I'm going to fix banana bread later this evening.
 * ubuntujenkins has 5 bananas next to him
<dutchie> these are basically banana bread in muffin shape
<dutchie> s/are/were/
<godbyk> dutchie: When I've fixed latex-related typos in the translations, I've always edited the .po file and fixed it in launchpad.
<godbyk> what's the best way to fix translation bugs like that?
<dutchie> fix it in LP and let it trickle through
 * dutchie builds his package
<godbyk> 'kay
 * dutchie is not optimistic
 * ubuntujenkins hopes it works then i can do another screenshot
<dutchie> ERROR: The build failed
<dutchie> well that was a surprise
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: knock yourself out, the branches are already diverged
<ubuntujenkins> what who messed it up?
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: I've had it branched for a while
<dutchie> I'll try rebasing
<dutchie> there aren't going to be any conflicts
<ubuntujenkins> o i see i thought you ment main had been messed up. I would like the ppa screenshot to be of our ppa you see
<dutchie> you'll be lucky to see it tonight I should think
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine i can see how much of a pain it is I looked online
<ubuntujenkins> I hope cononical don't change the default theme
<donri> Who likes the buttons? :)
<ubuntujenkins> I set them back to the right
<ubuntujenkins> I am use to the max, min close thing now
<donri> I quite like the for myself, but fear how it might confuse others.
 * dutchie doesn't actually care
<donri> You can change the order too, you know.
<donri> Oh but that's ugly in that theme?
<ubuntujenkins> I will set it to the right for my family, I know you can change the order but it then looks awful
<donri> Need better theme engines!
<godbyk> frak
<godbyk> Sometimes LaTeX packages are a total pain in the butt.
<godbyk> To get the Arabic (and other languages) set properly as right-to-left, I want to use the 'bidi' package
<godbyk> The bidi package wants to be loaded last so it can modify all the code that comes before it.
<dutchie> but so do all the other packages
<godbyk> But the document class (tufte-book) needs to modify the footnote and citation code to put things in the margin and bidi will overwrite that code if it's loaded afterward.
<godbyk> Thus begins the race to see who's hand ends up on top.
<godbyk> I think the best solution would be to see if I can modify tufte-book to wait until after the bidi package has been loaded to do its modifications.
<godbyk> But that may be tricky.
 * dutchie wonders whether him or godbyk has the harder job
<godbyk> heh
<dutchie> ooh, nearly ready to have another go at building
<godbyk> at least I wrote the tufte-book class, so I can modify it freely. :)
 * godbyk may have to spend a couple hours to build a quick website/database that can track the dependency trees of latex packages.
<godbyk> so I can pull up the page on bidi for instance, and see that it requires these other packages, it must be loaded before package X but after package Y, that it's compatible with packages A, B, and C, but incompatible with packages D, E, and F, etc.
<godbyk> that is obsoletes package P and supercedes package Q.
<dutchie> \o/ another failed build
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> what part of the build is failing?
<godbyk> latex-related or deb-related?
<dutchie> getting the dependecies
<dutchie> I suspect the latex bit will work fine
<godbyk> what dependencies?
<godbyk> if you're just packaging a pdf, there are no dependencies. it's a pdf.  right?
<dutchie> dependencies for final package != dependencies for building said package
<godbyk> Gotcha.
<godbyk> How are you attempting to get the dependencies to build the package?
<dutchie> is there a minimal set of texlive packages?
<jaminday> Mornin all
<dutchie> you specify a Build-Depends line in the control file
<godbyk> dutchie: remember, we require tex live 2009.. the tex live 2007 packages in karmic won't work.
<ubuntujenkins> morning jaminday
<dutchie> I'm on lucid
 * dutchie is unlikely to even attempt doing karmic for a while
<ubuntujenkins> I never had any luck with lucid packages i downloaded it as per the wiki
<godbyk> I don't know what state the lucid tex live packages are in.
<dutchie> hmm, it says that ttf-linux-libertine is a virtual package
<godbyk> I just went straight for the TL2009 downloads directly because it's easier to keep them up to date than to rely on ubuntu.
<godbyk> (esp. since I'm doing dev work using latex.)
<godbyk> dutchie: what's it point to? did they rename it?
<ubuntujenkins> I had the packges about 2 months ago but after perstering godbyk with all my errors i use the downloads no problems with them at all
<dutchie> I think I will get the manual to build properly outside the debian build system
<dutchie> the install-pkgs script isn't finding my version of texlive
<godbyk> what version do you have installed?
<godbyk> what does 'which tlmgr' return?
<dutchie> which tlmgr gives nothing, but I installed tl-full 2009 out of the lucid repos
<ubuntujenkins> all do a pull i broke main for 2 mins then
<ubuntujenkins> forgot bzr add doh!
<godbyk> do they package the tlmgr program?
<dutchie> it seems not
<godbyk> that's what the install-pkgs.sh script relies on for installing TeX dependencies (and checking that TL2009 is installed).
<dutchie> could be a problem there then
<dutchie> godbyk: are you going to change the install-pkgs.sh script then?
<godbyk> dutchie: in what way?
<dutchie> so it works on lucid? ;)
<godbyk> It does as long as you stop trying to get away with using Lucid's packages. :-)
<dutchie> this is very hard when you need to build a deb package
<godbyk> I could add a command-line flag to say 'assume TL2009 is installed', but if it doesn't have tlmgr, the script can't install any missing dependencies anyway, so it's rather useless.
<dutchie> in theory, it's probably *just about* possible
<dutchie> (to use upstream packages)
 * dutchie wonders why lucid doesn't ship tlmgr then
<godbyk> do you have all the texlive packages installed?
<godbyk> lemme see if tlmgr exists anywhere.
<dutchie> I've got texlive-full installed, and I serached on packages.ubuntu.com
<godbyk> dutchie: doesn't look good: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=tlmgr&mode=exactfilename&suite=lucid&arch=any
<dutchie> so what does tlmgr actually do?
<godbyk> dutchie: it's basically apt-get for latex packages.
<godbyk> or like cpan
<dutchie> can apt-get not be used?
<dutchie> that would probably be an ideal solution
<godbyk> it downloads the packages from ctan.org, not ubuntu.
<godbyk> they're not .debs
<godbyk> but .tgz
<dutchie> are they not in ubuntu?
<godbyk> I don't know.
<godbyk> When I first looked at the lucid packages a couple months ago, I couldn't tell what state they were in.
<godbyk> but there are a lot fewer texlive packages in lucid than in karmic, I think.
<ubuntujenkins> I am off guys night night  o/
<dutchie> fewer?
<godbyk> G'night, ubuntujenkins!
<godbyk> dutchie: also, we need the bleeding edge version of polyglossia for our translations.
<godbyk> (that is, I'm running the version of polyglossia from git, in fact.)
<dutchie> translations are not a priority right now
<dutchie> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=ccicons.sty&mode=exactfilename&suite=karmic&arch=any :(
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> at the end of newsnight (exactly as serious as it sounds), they just played http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5SX3A-ifME
<godbyk> lol. why?
<dutchie> no idea whatsoever
<dutchie> that is the british equivalent to country and western
<dutchie> you can see why it's not so popular
<godbyk> sounds better than the country/western crap we have over here. :)
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btEpF334Rtc was their big hit
<godbyk> impressive. ;-)
<godbyk> my last paying job was working on a simulator of a combine harvester. :)
 * dutchie wonders if that song is in the U1MS
 * godbyk has the urge to design/create a new web interface for ctan.org.
<godbyk> Damn it.. I don't need *more* project ideas!
<godbyk> dutchie: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.text.tex/browse_thread/thread/bc81e38cabb35249#
<dutchie> gah
<dutchie> just as I was going to bed, you have to go and distract me
<godbyk> It's a quick read. And a bit of a bummer.
<dutchie> yeah
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-25
 * dutchie will file a needs-packaging for ccicons and hope that lucid+1 has all the relevant packages
<dutchie> night anyway
<godbyk> g'night.
<humphreybc> screenshots are looking goofd!
<humphreybc> good*
<donri> Are they in the PDF and everything?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> hey godbyk, do you think it'd be worth putting a thin border around each screenshot?
<donri> Update the builds site! And automate it! :(
<humphreybc> the one of the firefox looks a bit weird because it just blends with the page
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> Hmm.. maybe, I dunno.
<godbyk> I haven't really looked at 'em yet.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> they look pretty good
<godbyk> compiling now.
<humphreybc> you'll have to eventually go through one by one and make sure the alignment and stuff is all good
<godbyk> I know that ubuntujenkins uploaded a TON of 'em today.
<humphreybc> some of the captions have overlapped margin notes and things
<humphreybc> yeah there are quite a few in there now :P
<godbyk> yeah, that'll be another last-minute thing.
<humphreybc> so did you work out how to keep the descriptions from the TODO commands?
<godbyk> I think I may just make a \quickshot command or something.
<godbyk> I haven't really decided yet.
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> The screenshot caption and the quickshot description will be two different things.
<humphreybc> they will be
<humphreybc> we're just on 500 bug reports now btw
<godbyk> And the \screenshot command will print a TODO-like box if it can't find the file.  So we can go ahead and start using those instead (and writing good captions).
<godbyk> nice!
<godbyk> I made some global edits earlier today. They might have fixed a few of those bugs.
<godbyk> things like capitalizing Internet, fixing some quotation marks, and other random stuff.
<humphreybc> yeah I saw some of those
<godbyk> I was just digging through some docs looking at how to fix some other issues.
<humphreybc> is there any latex spellchecker thing we can use?
<godbyk> Btw, it looks like I should be able to tell \url to *not* break after a colon.  I'll give it a shot sometime here.
<humphreybc> nice
<godbyk> aspell or ispell or one of 'em has a -t option for parsing tex files.
<godbyk> it's not the smartest parser in the world, but it'll skip over most the common latex commands.
<humphreybc> worth running it?
<godbyk> maybe.
<godbyk> I'll give it a try a bit later.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> let me know how you go
<godbyk> will do.
<godbyk> I'll be back in a little bit.
<humphreybc> also, i changed some subsections to sections so they'd appear in the contents
<godbyk> Gonna grab something to eat.
<humphreybc> k
<godbyk> Cool.
<godbyk> I added the glossary to the toc -- just for you!
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> (actually, I was surprised it wasn't there. turns out you have to pass the 'toc' option to the glossaries package.  <shrug>)
<godbyk> anyway, brb.
<humphreybc> kk
<jaminday> Hey humphreybc: I just rearranged the order of nautilus section a bit
<humphreybc> hey
<humphreybc> oh?
<jaminday> Makes more sense to have navigating first
<jaminday> then opening files
<jaminday> then creating folders
<jaminday> then copy paste
<jaminday> Kinda least complex to more complex
<jaminday> Is that ok?
<humphreybc> yea
<jaminday> sweet
<humphreybc> sounds good
<jaminday> 500 bugs, wow
<humphreybc> there is a severe lack of margin notes in the "Working with Ubuntu" chapter
<jaminday> Yeah i noticed that
<jaminday> I've added a couple this morning
<humphreybc> Tonight when i go through it I'm going to see if I can take a lot of stuff and make them margin notes
<jaminday> Ok cool. Make sure I've pushed before you do so we don't double up
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> have you seen all the screenshots?
<jaminday> yeah they are looking good!
<jaminday> Except are blurry on my screen - i'm not sure why
<jaminday> it could be evince?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> it's evince
<humphreybc> they're not blurry in adobe reader or when printed
<jaminday> what do you use in ubuntu? adobe?
<humphreybc> evince
<jaminday> ah ok
<humphreybc> adobe isn't packaged for lucid yet
<humphreybc> are you still on karmic?
<jaminday> yep, but i've got lucid in a virtualbox so i can refer to it as i go
<humphreybc> ok
<jaminday> except i just broke it trying to install guest additions
<humphreybc> lol
<jaminday> hehe
<humphreybc> guest additions don't support lucid yet :P
<humphreybc> btw, when you come across screenshots, the captions will need to be looked at
<jaminday> yeah i just learnt that the hard way!
<jaminday> ok
<jaminday> that will probably be the last thing i come back to once bugs are done
<humphreybc> yep
<jaminday> are screenshot captions included in the writing freeze?
<humphreybc> yes
<humphreybc> they get translated too
<jaminday> ah yes of course
<jaminday> Did you see that post from the team translating in Tamil?
<humphreybc> nope?
<humphreybc> about the photo?
<jaminday> Hmm.. not sure. I'll dig up the link
<jaminday> http://kanchilug.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/translating-ubuntu-manual-into-tamil/
<jaminday> you might have seen it
<humphreybc> nope haven't seen it, looks awesome! reading now
<humphreybc> (those guys are hardcore btw)
<humphreybc> what country is tamil spoken in?
<humphreybc> wow
<jaminday> Umm i'm not really sure - i think it's called kanchipuram ?
<humphreybc> that is awesome
<jaminday> actually that's probably the city
<humphreybc> wow
<jaminday> yeah i know - pen and paper!
<jaminday> I wrote to them and said they might want to wait till writing freeze before doing too much more
<jaminday> especially if they are doing a lot by hand
<godbyk> back.. with banana bread.
<jaminday> btw - any bugs on the spreadsheet that we won't have time to address till next version, put 10.10 in the 'fixed' column
<jaminday> that way we can keep track of them so they don't get forgotten
<godbyk> I have a ta.po file for the Tamil translation, but it doesn't have any translations yet.
<godbyk> Hope everything is going well there.
<jaminday> yeah same, they seem to be very keen
<jaminday> They might be waiting till writing freeze
<humphreybc> I think I suggested they wait till writing freeze
<humphreybc> that is so cool though
<godbyk> ok
<godbyk> just checking
<humphreybc> I wonder if there are other groups like this translating the manual
<jaminday> godbyk: Just added a link to www.ubuntu-manual.org in the welcome section of prologue
<godbyk> 'bout time someone did!
 * godbyk glares at humphreybc.
<jaminday> hehe
<humphreybc> huh?
<humphreybc> it was already there
<humphreybc> under contact details
<jaminday> ah - hang on i'll show you what i did
<godbyk> I fixed some bugs in your 'perfect' chapters, too, humphreybc.  Bugs that I even told you about. :)
<humphreybc> ..
<humphreybc> such as?
<godbyk> I don't remember; I'd have to glance at the bzr logs for today again.
<godbyk> maybe capitalizing Internet or serial commas or somesuch.
<humphreybc> lol ok
<jaminday> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/716997/Prologue.png
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> sure
<godbyk> \o/
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> godbyk: did you say you had a way to fix the web address breaking at the : in the welcome section?
<godbyk> I think so, yes.
<jaminday> ok great
<godbyk> I haven't coded it yet, though.
<jaminday> no worries
<godbyk> And that may cause even worse line breaks, who knows? :)
<godbyk> I need to totally refactor my tufte-book code sometime soon.
<humphreybc> Tamil is spoken in a province of India
<jaminday> ah ok
<humphreybc> btw, i need your mugshots people
<jaminday> that's right i forgot
<jaminday> Here you go
<jaminday> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/716997/n612706380_207551_8825.jpg
<humphreybc> LOL
<humphreybc> you're an idiot
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> you think it's usable?
<godbyk> Wow.. that's *exactly* how I pictured you in my mind, jaminday!
<humphreybc> lol
<jaminday> hey godbyk: remind me how i search through the entire manual for a phrase
<jaminday> never mind, evince is actually pretty good at searching
<godbyk> if you want to search the .tex files, you can use 'grep "my phrase" -ir */*.tex' from the ubuntu-manual/ dir.
<godbyk> the -i is for case-insensitive searching, and -r is recursive.
<jaminday> ah cool
<jaminday> i'll have to remember that
<jaminday> humphreybc: In the prologue you said the linux is THE most popular unix-based operating system
<jaminday> is this correct?
<humphreybc> yes
<jaminday> even more so than mac os x?
<humphreybc> well on servers yea
<donri> touchÃ©
<jaminday> hmm...
<humphreybc> i would say that linux overall has a larger market share than OS X
<humphreybc> you can chuck the "most" back in there if you like
<jaminday> yeah i think i will - most people reading this probably will be desktop users
<jaminday> so it could be confusing
<humphreybc> kk
<jaminday> "and is currently one of the most popular..."
<humphreybc> sure
<jaminday> Hey who is in charge of glossary
<humphreybc> nisshh
<jaminday> Ok. I'll leave any bugs that mention glossary for him to look at then
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> right off to class
<jaminday> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> jaminday: Hey.
<jaminday> hey - do you know what the 'power' button in lucid is actually called
<jaminday> ie where you logout shutdown etc
<jaminday> is the the session management button?
<jaminday> *it
<godbyk> I'm not sure what it's called now, actually.
<godbyk> right-clicking and selecting About just mentions the indicator applet.
<jaminday> hmm ok.
<godbyk> but that's what the power button thing is sitting in.
<jaminday> I could call it the session management button, or otherwise keep it as "Power" button
<godbyk> what does the docs team call it?
<jaminday> I've been looking but cant seem to find it anywhere
<godbyk> let me poke around a little.
<jaminday> ok. Let me know if you find anything.
<godbyk> I think it's the fast-user-switch-applet.
<godbyk> but that's a crappy name
<jaminday> ooh awkward nam
<jaminday> *name
<jaminday> Maybe we could do the inline image like you suggested
<jaminday> and just call it the "Power" button as it's descriptive
<godbyk> help.ubuntu.com didn't appear to mention anything about how to shutdown your computer.
<jaminday> yeah i couldn't find anything on logout or restart either
<godbyk> where are the docs that the docs team writes?
<godbyk> it's a good thing we're writing a manual 'cause I can't find anything!
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> I'll leave as is for now then.
<jaminday> Might talk to ubuntujenkins about putting in an inline image instead of the description
<godbyk> yeah, there are a few others places where displaying the icon (instead of just describing it) would be handy.
<godbyk> we'll need to collect the icons from the default theme.
<godbyk> c'mon!
<godbyk> a google search for "ubuntu how do I shutdown my computer?" was useless
<godbyk> way down the list, I found a yahoo answers page about it.
<godbyk> the answer was:
<godbyk> "Click the button at the top right of the screen."
<jaminday> hehe
<donri> Well, it is a little cryptic. But less so in Lucid, I think?
<jaminday> Yeah lucid is a little more obvious i think
<donri> In Karmic, that I should click my user name to shut down, is about as helpful as good ol' windows "click start to stop".
<jaminday> hehe that's right!
<godbyk> right
<godbyk> I like the new icon.
<jaminday> same
<godbyk> just not sure what its official name is. :)
<donri> It's the same icon as most computers have on their power switches, yea?
<godbyk> yep
<donri> So maybe call it something like that, "power switch button" and specify its location, "top right corner".
<godbyk> just call it the power button may be confusing the icon with the physical power switch, though.
<godbyk> (though pushing the power switch should be fine, too.)
<jaminday> This is what it says currently
<jaminday> When you are finished exploring, restart your computer by clicking the ``Power'' button in the top right corner of your screen (circle with a line through the top) and then select Restart
<donri> Screenshot with an arrow pointing at it? :)
<donri> But can't really get more specific than "top right corner".
<jaminday> yeah that's right
<donri> There's nothing that is more to the top right than that button.
<jaminday> godbyk suggested just a small image of the icon in-text might be the go as well
<jaminday> to replace the (circle with line through the top) bit
<donri> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol#Definitions
<godbyk> is it the top right corner for RTL languages?
<donri> My laptop uses the standby symbol on the on-off switch. Now I'm gonna have OCD itches about that. :(
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> I think it's used a lot now for on-off rather than standby
<jaminday> godbyk: thats a good question
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: morning.
<ubuntujenkins> well if humphreybc wants the wubi in different language we need someone with windows 7 ultimate and they only support 35 languages
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/ubuntu-is-awesome.html
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: screenshots left http://paste.ubuntu.com/400996/ can we scrap the last two?
<ubuntujenkins> the last one is a maybe i think
<humphreybc> the GRUB screen would be good
<humphreybc> we can scrap the second to last one, number 9
<ubuntujenkins> does grub show it in different langauges?
<ubuntujenkins> good number 9 gone
<humphreybc> I tried to get a shot of Rhythmbox but my Lucid install wasn't letting my create a new user and then Rbox wouldn't recognize my CD drive and uh
<humphreybc> oh good point, not sure
<humphreybc> maybe scrap GRUB one as well
<ubuntujenkins> if it only dies english then it might be easyier as we can include it in all of the manuals
<ubuntujenkins> *does
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks for trying i will try and get a cd from some one.
<ubuntujenkins> if you want the wubi in different language we need someone with windows 7 ultimate and they only support 35 languages
<ubuntujenkins> I can get the english one now i have found a wubi that works
<humphreybc> we only need wubi in english
<humphreybc> not going to bother getting that in multiple languages
<ubuntujenkins> will it go in all languages still?
<humphreybc> y4ep
<ubuntujenkins> right I wil do that one today
<humphreybc> awesome
<humphreybc> the shots are looking great in the manual :)
<ubuntujenkins> I know I just have the hard ones left
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: how's quickshot going? when can we test it?
<ubuntujenkins> are there any others that you think we don't need?
<ubuntujenkins> total is now 53
<humphreybc> what's number 6?
<ubuntujenkins> creating a day event in evolution
<humphreybc> "visual example of adding an event in the day view by typing"
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> the description needs to specify that it's actually in evolution
<ubuntujenkins> It will do, number 5 is questionable as we need to give people an e-mail address to enter
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> scrap that then
<ubuntujenkins> wooo!
<humphreybc> the messaging menu isn't fundamental
<godbyk> you won't get IMs if you don't know how to handle the messaging menu, though, right?
<humphreybc> you don't need to do anything with the messaging menu
<humphreybc> it works with empathy by default
<humphreybc> plus i think empathy uses the notification system
<humphreybc> as well
<ubuntujenkins> how do you change the language in the log in screen?
<humphreybc> no idea
 * humphreybc has only ever needed to use english ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> I can get away with one screenshot for the whole manaul if i take it before selecting a user, owever it will have "thur" in the bottom right
<ubuntujenkins> as in thusday
<humphreybc> that's not the end of the world
<ubuntujenkins> good, virtual box isn't playing ball so doing only one makes it easyier
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/original-thriller.mp3
<humphreybc> An avant garde tune I wrote for a couple of cellos, a viola and a violin in high school
<humphreybc> first time i've listened to it again in like 2 years, i think it sounds pretty neat!
<humphreybc> I especially love the part at 2:26, i remember i thought it was gold when I wrote it
<humphreybc> oh yeah, ubuntujenkins
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/ubuntu-1004-installation-slideshow.html
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I will redo it later
<humphreybc> kk neat
<ubuntujenkins> I thought there was a new one
<humphreybc> should hit Lucid sometime next week
<ubuntujenkins> ok I wil keep checking
 * humphreybc is fixing up the blueprints
<ubuntujenkins> lol my mate whilst drunk changed his computer password and now he can't think of it :-P
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> that's a dumb thing to do
<ubuntujenkins> Its so funny he is the peson who has windows 7 and is providing screenshots
<humphreybc> haha
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: have we any idea if the default theme is going toi
<ubuntujenkins> change?
<humphreybc> will find out next week, Ivanka is just double checking with Mark
<ubuntujenkins> I hoep not so i con't have to do the screenshot again but I think white is the better default
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> Ivanka is pushing for the dark one
<humphreybc> So it will probably stay as it is at the moment
<humphreybc> but i'm honestly not sure
<ubuntujenkins> yey
<humphreybc> let's see if we can get all the bugs fixed in time for beta, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/beta-release
<godbyk> yikes!
<godbyk> flood me with bug emails, why doncha! :)
<humphreybc> hehehehe
 * humphreybc gets another few thousand karma
<humphreybc> where are those mugshots everyone!?
<godbyk> what kind of mugshot are you wanting?
<humphreybc> one where you're happy to be working on UMP
<humphreybc> grinning, even
<godbyk> I don't smile.
<godbyk> Ever.
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> well now you have to
<humphreybc> just pull a silly face, if you must
<humphreybc> come on jaminday, cjohnston, godbyk, TommyBrunn, Red_HamsterX, vish I need mugshots!
<godbyk> Heh.. it's 5 a.m. here. You'll have to wait 'til I've had my beauty sleep!
<humphreybc> okay okay
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> we had two people deactivate their membership in the team after that large amount of spam
<godbyk> nice
<nvsbl> to anyone who has contributed to the ubuntu manual project: thank you. this is exactly what i needed to help convert my nigh-computer-illiterate friends into ubuntu users
<humphreybc> :)
<TommyBrunn> humphreybc: What do you need the mugshots for?
<humphreybc> TommyBrunn: it's a surprise
<TommyBrunn> How exciting. :P
<humphreybc> I know!
<humphreybc> I need to collect as many as I can
<humphreybc> so email me yours asap
<TommyBrunn> Alright. I'm not exactly my most charming self at the moment (I've managed to get sick again), but I'll see what I can do.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> any photo of you smiling that's at least 800 x 600 is good
<TommyBrunn> Mmm, I've managed to get a blister the size of a kiwi bird on my lower lip, so I'll be sure to show that off.
<humphreybc> lol, don't you have any photos of you already lying around?
<humphreybc> on facebook or something?
<TommyBrunn> Not on facebook, I don't think, but I'll see what I can find.
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> godbyk, you wanna run the build script again and update the draft?
<godbyk> I s'pose
<humphreybc> :)
 * humphreybc didn't know that Google used Ubuntu so extensively 
<humphreybc> who made the awesome progress bar on the website?
<godbyk> no clue. I just assumed it was you.
<humphreybc> must have been daker
<TommyBrunn> Speaking of which, does anyone know why the countdown timer is so freaking slow all of a sudden?
<TommyBrunn> It takes like 5 seconds for it to even start on my machine.
<humphreybc> slow?
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> yeah same here
<TommyBrunn> Oh, I think I know.
<TommyBrunn> I would guess that it's because Google Analytics is a slow beast, and the countdown timer doesn't start until the page is fully loaded.
<godbyk> new builds up: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> draft is being pushed as we speak.
<TommyBrunn> Wow, 100% of the Bengali edition seems to be translated. When did that happen?
<godbyk> plus, the countdown timer's javascript is in-line, not loaded during the header.
<godbyk> it's not. it's a bad po file, I think
<godbyk> in any case, postats fails when dealing with it.
<humphreybc> Italian?
<godbyk> same.
<TommyBrunn> The italian one seems a bit off as well. It's listed as 100%, but I'm reading it now, and only some parts of it are in italian
<TommyBrunn> Oh, I see.
<humphreybc> awh
<godbyk> $ postats po/it.po
<godbyk> Error: "potool po/it.po -ft -s" failed
 * humphreybc cannot wait to see a fully translated manual
<godbyk> Spanish is getting there.
 * ubuntujenkins curses all the bug mail from humphreybc 
<humphreybc> hehehe
<TommyBrunn> I'm a bit surprised at how little of the text has been translated. Generally, software projects (especially those hosted on Launchpad) are translated very quickly without ever even asking for help in the first place. But I guess it's a lot harder to translate 150-some pages of text than it is to translate 50 words to be used in some application.
<humphreybc> especially when those 160+ pages are ever changing
<TommyBrunn> True.
<humphreybc> I think we'll see the pace pick up after the writing freeze
<humphreybc> I'm planning on doing a big push/campaign to get translators moving
<humphreybc> godbyk: https://help.launchpad.net/API
<fenre> Yup, I'm not starting before the text stops changing :P
<humphreybc> fenre: awesome. don't forget to send me your mugshot too
<humphreybc> godbyk, we'll have to set up our form with the API at some point. We can get Tim to help us/ask him questions if need be
<fenre> sure
<godbyk> if they expose the parts we need to access.
<humphreybc> okay, i'll talk to thumper about it tomorrow
<humphreybc> godbyk https://dev.launchpad.net/API/ImplementingAPIs
<ubuntujenkins> where can i get music that i can legaly burn on to a cd?
<humphreybc> the Jamendo store?
<humphreybc> I can have another go at taking the screenshot if you want
<ubuntujenkins> I am pssibly going home at the weekend so if that one can wait
<humphreybc> I'll try taking it for you now
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<humphreybc> well, in a sec
<humphreybc> ill just change my account theme and stuff
<humphreybc> it won't have the panels in it, will it?
<humphreybc> it won't be maximised
<ubuntujenkins> nope just the window maximized when the destop is a t 1024x768
<humphreybc> my panels aren't default though
<humphreybc> or should I crop the panels out
<humphreybc> is that what you mean?
<ubuntujenkins> no when you go aplications > accessories > take screenshot choose "grab the current window" and un tick "include pointer"
<humphreybc> okay
 * humphreybc has to change his window controls back
<humphreybc> what were they? maximize:minimize:close
<humphreybc> right?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<humphreybc> okay taken them
<humphreybc> god the default theme is AWFUL
<ubuntujenkins> I like it best default theme yet
<humphreybc> the "take screenshot of current window" thing didn't work with the window borders
<humphreybc> it didn't take the window borders
<humphreybc> so i just took the whole thing, and i have to crop out the panel. so it will be 24px less than 1024 high
<ubuntujenkins> in that user go system > preference aperences and turn off effects
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> any more you want me to take since i've got the default theme set up?
<ubuntujenkins> no thats fine those were the ones i could do
<humphreybc> I can take some more if you want
<humphreybc> assistive technologies?
<ubuntujenkins> done
<ubuntujenkins> I only have 5 to do
<humphreybc> okay then
<ubuntujenkins> Thanks
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/rbox.tar.gz
<humphreybc> I took two, one with the default and the other with the CD tracklist visible
<nisshh> hey dudes
<nisshh> hows it coming along
<humphreybc> hi nisshh
<humphreybc> you have lots of work to do! :)
<nisshh> i know
<nisshh> only just got home
<humphreybc> kk
<ubuntujenkins> thats good thanks humphreybc
 * TommyBrunn is taking a mugshot.
<nisshh> im going to be sorting out my music collection and adding stuff to glossary tonight
<TommyBrunn> It just occurred to me that I look a lot like a drunk emo Peter Parker.
<humphreybc> hey cool, the title page for the spanish one is translated
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> nisshh: sweet
<humphreybc> we need at least two pages of glossary entries to make it worthwhile
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> have to work hard then lol
<humphreybc> you do :)
<humphreybc> you've got six days
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> hey, i just noticed ilya hasnt been around for a while
<ubuntujenkins> I was thinking that
<nisshh> havent heard anything
<humphreybc> yeah, he's probably hiding haha
<nisshh> meh
<ubuntujenkins> does image bin work for anyone?
<humphreybc> nisshh: I need your mugshot too
<nisshh> humphreybc: saw your blog post of the printed manual, looks really nice
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: no
<nisshh> yea, im getting my sister to take it it in a minute
<humphreybc> cool
<ubuntujenkins> glad its not just me any where else i can post something?
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> try this http://www.imagesocket.com/!
<humphreybc> without the !
<humphreybc> http://www.imagesocket.com
<humphreybc> OMG EW
<humphreybc> i just clicked "Random"
<humphreybc> got this
<humphreybc> http://www.imagesocket.com/view/1DSC06046fe6.jpg
<humphreybc> BIG mistake
<TommyBrunn> AHHH
<TommyBrunn> My eyes!
<humphreybc> this one's nice
<humphreybc> http://www.imagesocket.com/view/Hour_Glass_500x50037a.jpg
<TommyBrunn> What is this I don't even
<nisshh> humphreybc:does the mugshot need to be super high quality?
<TommyBrunn> That was the remedy my eyes so needed.
<humphreybc> nisshh, bigger than 800 x 600 is good
<TommyBrunn> Freaking great. Now my memory card isn't being detected, for some reason
<humphreybc> so many pics of girls on that site
<godbyk> I'm off to bed.  See you guys later.
<humphreybc> ugly and nice
<ubuntujenkins> ninght godbyk
<nisshh> cya
<humphreybc> godbyk chow!
<TommyBrunn> Screw this turdbuntu, I'm going back to Windows! :@ :'(
<humphreybc> hahaha
<nisshh> hehe
<ubuntujenkins> ok guys have a close look does this look wrong? http://www.imagesocket.com/view/01_ubuntu_login7fd.png
<humphreybc> clicking random is actually quite entertaining, provided you don't come across something shit
<humphreybc> it's like 4chan, but faster
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: no
<nisshh> hehe
<TommyBrunn> I'm going to try the old windows trick and see if a reboot has any effect.
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh:  good I may have faked it.
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: they're going to be changing some stuff in the login screen soon
<humphreybc> how'd you fake it?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: aaaaarrrrrrrrhhhh
<humphreybc> you know how the logo and icons are really white at the moment and hardly visible?
<humphreybc> they'll be changed to a darker colour at some point
<ubuntujenkins> well got the backround and did a screenshot of virtual machine at the wrong res and made it look good in the right res
<humphreybc> ah ha
<ubuntujenkins> I noticed but I would like to point out the ui freeze
<humphreybc> Canonical doesn't adhere to UI freezes
<humphreybc> remember?
<ubuntujenkins> It's very anoying
<humphreybc> right, i'm going to get some snacks and then watch a movie
<humphreybc> night all!
<ubuntujenkins> night
<humphreybc> keep workin' !
<ubuntujenkins> don't worry faking grub now
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> TommyBrunn, nisshh, email your mugshots to me
<ubuntujenkins> virtualbox doen't know what 1024x768 is its more like 1024 x 1920
<humphreybc> hahaha
<TommyBrunn> humphreybc: Sent it
<humphreybc> aww you need to smile more!
<nisshh> humphreybc:sending it now
<TommyBrunn> If you're making a collage with the subtitle: "The smiles of Ubuntu", you're going to give me diabetes.
<humphreybc> hahaha not quite
<nisshh> darn, none of us will ever quess
<nisshh> guess
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> you'll just have to wait
<humphreybc> it's really cool though
<nisshh> so you will show us at the end of april?
<nisshh> and i just sent my mugshot off to your gmail
<ubuntujenkins> woo grub is done http://www.imagesocket.com/view/08_grub_boot_screenf2b.png
<TommyBrunn> Ooohh, today is waffel day here in Sweden. I need to get myself a waffel iron.
<TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins is that the official grub in 10.04?
<ubuntujenkins> that is grub uptodat at the moment
<ubuntujenkins> if they change it it better be easy to fake
<TommyBrunn> I wonder why they don't do something with grub. It seems every other distro is, so why not Ubuntu?
<ubuntujenkins> check out burg that is really good
<TommyBrunn> I've seen it, I just don't really feel like messing up grub. I've already done that too many times.
<ubuntujenkins> I keep doing clean installs to get screenshots so I haven't bothered
<ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn: http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=121105
<jaminday> humphreybc: just saw your post on the tamil translation team
<ubuntujenkins> well lets see if i have broken grub ;-) i may or may not be back
<ubuntujenkins> it worked and nvida boot splash is looking good
<ubuntujenkins> mattgriffin, have you decided on the screenshots for ubuntu one yet? I only have 3 left to take to complete them all
<mattgriffin> ubuntujenkins: not yet. i should know in a few hours
<mattgriffin> i'll ping you when i have the list
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, was about to say that
<mattgriffin> :)
<nisshh> just pushed initial work on the prologue to lp
<nisshh> more coming later
<nisshh> oops
<nisshh> i meant glossary
<nisshh> also if anyone has any suggestions for glossary items, please say so
<donri> Will the screenshots look this pixely in print/final PDF?
<donri> Oh, probably just evince sucking at scaling images.
<ubuntujenkins> donri: it is evince being sucky
<donri> Sad, as most people will be reading in evince.
<donri> I wonder what it uses to display images, and if it could be patched to use whatever eog uses (which scales much better).
<ubuntujenkins> i have no clue i am afraid
<ubuntujenkins> does any one have access to windows 7?
<ubuntujenkins> are the wubi only works in vista compatible mode
<nisshh> our college computers run win7
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for the offer nisshh but I have now got it sorted.
<ubuntujenkins> 7 doesn't like the wubi you haev to tell it to run it as vista
<artnay> how do I find which translations have errors? I'm looking at the build log at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ - what should I look for?
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: look at the errors colum it tells you how many errors which one are you after?
<artnay> yeah, there's like 24 out of 300 now. but which ones cause those errors? I'm looking at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-fi.log and there's no mention of "error"
<artnay> any way to track down those 24? ctrl+f and ...
<jaminday> nisshh: ping
<ubuntujenkins> there is no way of tracking it down easily you will have to ask godyk when he wakes up
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: you know that you can still see the pdf even if there are errors it many not be complete thought
<artnay> I think it's those compound words (in Finnish) which are related to those words that have (LaTeX?) syntax
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: true, I already checked that one
<ubuntujenkins> I have a feeling they will be laytex errors
<artnay> same, but not knowing which translations have errors will cause a lot more problems if we continue translating
<artnay> have to investigate the syntax a bit to complete this task...
<ubuntujenkins> have you seen the notes for translators?
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: sure I have
<ubuntujenkins> ok then amke sure you haven't tranlated stuff that you shouldn't have, I have to run to alecture but I will try and do a build of it when i get back and see what errors i find
<artnay> but, umh, here's an example. so we have "company named \gls{Canonical}" in the english sentence. but in Finnish (and many more langues) that translates to "\gls{Canonical}-niminen yritys"
<artnay> does the dash break the syntax?
<artnay> so we now have compund word that should have a dash just next to the text "Canonical"
<ubuntujenkins> I have no clue i am afraid I will look when i get back sorry go to go
<ubuntujenkins> *got
<artnay> I see only warnings in the log, not actual errors. anyways, I'm too tired atm to inspect this any further. please highlight my nick if you reply, thanks.
<nisshh> jaminday: yes, sorry i was busy
<nisshh> jaminday: what did you ping me for?
<nisshh> artnay: the dash should not break the syntax unless the word niminen forms part of the word Canonical in your language
<nisshh> if need be i can move that latex code somewhere else
<artnay> nisshh: it does form a compound word
<nisshh> so your saying that to say the word canonical in your language you need to say "canonical-niminen"?
<artnay> unless we want to rephrase the whole sentence (which probably would make the whole sentence a bit complicated)
<nisshh> sorry, if it takes me a little while to grasp what your trying to say, i am an english only speaker
<artnay> so basically yeah, there are a lot of situations where you have to combine the original word and the finnish word with a dash
<artnay> GNOME desktop environment would be GNOME-tyÃ¶pÃ¶ytÃ¤ympÃ¤ristÃ¶
<nisshh> right
<artnay> so I think the dash breaks the syntax. is there and escape charater?
<nisshh> have you run make and looked at the manual?
<artnay> sorry, lots of typos here (won't be in the final draft of manual!)
<nisshh> it shouldnt break the syntax from what i understand
<nisshh> but basically, whatever phrase in finnish makes up the word canonical should be inside those curly braces.
<nisshh> everything else should be outside them'
<artnay> nisshh: 1. haven't run any make for this 2. I've been looking for answers at wiki & ML
<nisshh> ok i will try this out, what is the code for finnish e.g. UK is united kingdom
<artnay> fi
<nisshh> ok give me 2 minutes
<nisshh> running make now
<artnay> nisshh: I could figure out those problems if only I saw the actual error lines
<nisshh> hmm ok, well where you have translated the terminal commands, they seem to have broken, they come up with wornings during compilation
<nisshh> warnings i mean
<artnay> there's a's and o's with dots
<nisshh> yes
<artnay> like account = kÃ¤yttÃ¤jÃ¤nimi
<nisshh> right ok
<nisshh> hmmm, well since i cant read finnish i cant tell if the syntax is actually broken
<nisshh> your going to have to check for me
<nisshh> ill guide you through compiling the manual and you can see the errors and check the pdf for breakage ok?
<artnay> nisshh: well enough
<nisshh> ok so have you got the latest revision of ubuntu-manual from launchpad
<artnay> nisshh: main.pdf?
<nisshh> oh, have you compiled it?
<artnay> no I haven't. so where do I get the source?
<nisshh> oh did you download the pdf from our website?
<artnay> nisshh: from here http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ and now I'm browsing https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main
<artnay> so there's a makefile, right.
<nisshh> right, ok do you have bazaar installed?
<artnay> sorry, nope.
<nisshh> yes theres a makefile
<nisshh> ok your running ubuntu though?
<artnay> debian but I have lucid in virtualbox
<nisshh> ok can you install the bzr package in lucid please, i assume you know how to install stuff?
<artnay> nisshh: sure, it's warming up ;)
<nisshh> ok cool
<nisshh> once thats installed go to an empty directory somewhere in your home directory
<nisshh> doesnt  matter where
<nisshh> you with me still?
<artnay> nisshh: I'm here with fsck, will take some time before lucid is up
<nisshh> oh ok, so your translating from debian?
<artnay> nisshh: using launchpad, yeah. I'm at work now, no Ubuntu here.
<nisshh> ok well i do believe you can get bzr in debian
<nisshh> if thats any easier for you
<artnay> well bzr is now installed in lucid
<nisshh> ok good
<nisshh> so now open a terminal
<artnay> and now I should fetch those files with bzr, hmh?
<nisshh> yea , but bzr will put the files in your current directory
<nisshh> so you should make a temporary one
<artnay> yes, I'm in an empty dir atm
<nisshh> ok cool
<nisshh> so now run: bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual
<nisshh> and it should fetch all the files for you
<artnay> 750KB/s
<nisshh> oooh nice net connection
<nisshh> way faster than mine
<nisshh> which is 160KB/s
<artnay> shouldn't take long, 1.2MB/s currently
<artnay> 70 MB fetched
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> i think its about 130mb
<nisshh> maybe more
<nisshh> lol
<artnay> done, 585 revisions
<nisshh> ok cool
<nisshh> so now go into the newly created ubuntu-manual directory
<artnay> pwd ... /home/ubuntu/bzr/ubuntu-manual
<artnay> yep
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> and run: make ubuntu-manual-fi.pdf
<nisshh> this will compile a pdf in your language
<nisshh> it does take a little while though
<artnay> my vb-lucid was missing po4a, now it's installed. now it can't exec "kpsewhich", /usr/share/perl5/Locale/Po4a/TeX.pm
<artnay> so, umh, some TeX magic missing?
<nisshh> oh no, darn it i forgot
<nisshh> you need texlive installed
<artnay> uh, 229 MB to fetch. ~40 secs
<nisshh> what is it fetching?
<artnay> 4 MB/s from the main repos, way better than the country mirror
<artnay> texlive
<nisshh> ok, so your installing texlive?
<nisshh> make sure its texlive 2009
<jaminday> nisshh: sorry was trying to fix some bzr issues
<nisshh> jaminday: yea sorry my commit and someone elses diverged
<jaminday> yeah that's ok i think it was me!
<nisshh> hehe
<jaminday> think i got it sorted thought
<nisshh> so do i
<nisshh> there were 2 conflicts
<jaminday> yep thats right
<jaminday> scariest moment of my life
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> artnay: hows it coming along?
<artnay> nisshh: so if someone else is up to the same task, the default installation needs po4a and texlive before you can even try to make
<nisshh> yes we have a script for that
<nisshh> i completely forgot
<artnay> now the make fails, po4a::tex: Can't read from file without having a filename at /usr/bin/po4a-translaite line 229
<nisshh> its in the branch you downloaded under pkgs/install-pkgs.sh
<nisshh> it will install everything you need
<jaminday> anyway i'm heading to bed, but nisshh was just gonna let you know that i changed a few bugs in the spreadsheet to your name as they were regarding the glossary
<nisshh> ok thanks
<nisshh> if they were from godbyk i already saw them
<jaminday> ah ok, don't worry then
<nisshh> unless hes submitted more
<jaminday> wasn't sure if you had or not
<nisshh> yea thanks
<jaminday> no i don't think so, probably the ones you saw
<artnay> nisshh: so I tried "sh install-pkgs.sh", it told me No version of TeX Live was detected.
<jaminday> anyway, i'll be back tomorrow for some more bug-fixing fun!
<jaminday> night all
<nisshh> night
<artnay> apt-cache show texlive says it's 2009-7
<artnay> and yeah, it's installed.
<nisshh> ok, there is a downloadable script that installs texlive 2009 for you
<nisshh> follow these instructions:
<artnay> sh install-pkgs.sh --> Checking TeX Live version...Status: install ok installed -ne E[33m
<nisshh> oh, the script works now?
<artnay> nope, that's the error msg
<nisshh> oh ok here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors
<artnay> then it gives me a link to wiki
<nisshh> at the bottom of tha page
<nisshh> there are instructions on how to install texlive 2009
<nisshh> but there is one thing missing
<nisshh> make sure you enable create symlinks in the texlive install script
<artnay> I do need the build-essential for that, right?
<nisshh> yes
<artnay> uh... my wife is waiting at me ;)
<nisshh> just install build-essential and then run the script
<artnay> for me even
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> if you have to go dont worry
<artnay> umh, can we continue this tomorrow or some other day?
<nisshh> sure
<nisshh> i need some sleep anyway lol
<artnay> I would like to learn the procedure and then help with the translations
<nisshh> cool just jump in here tommorrow and someone will be here
<artnay> and I need to learn more that TeX syntax
<artnay> ok, thanks and sleep well!
<nisshh> cheers!
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: I am back sorry I had to go in arush how is it going?
<ubuntujenkins> *rush
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: after thinking about it i think you should leave \gls{Canonical}-niminen yritys as that, laytext is only effected by the stuff in the {}
<ubuntujenkins> the rest appears as it is
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: I can now build you manual with no errors that stop it being built it was the same thing through out
<ubuntujenkins> as for the Canonical thing if the way you pronounce it is Canonical-niminen then it should be how nisshh said
 * ubuntujenkins I suppose i better do some revision ping me if you want help
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone know when titeuf usually gets on?
<ubuntujenkins> he hasn't been on for a day our two but he is utc+1 so about 3 hours ish would be my guess
<ubuntujenkins> at least i think he is utc+1
<Red_HamsterX> Sounds about right.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure how much more I reallyneed to do with the backend, so I'd like to start making sure the frontend works.
<Red_HamsterX> I really need*
<ubuntujenkins> that would be good, I have only 1 screenshot left to take and the ubuntu one one's
<Red_HamsterX> And then we need to decide whether we want to pull them from the server on demand as lower-quality JPEGs (to make Quickshot's package smaller and to decouple data from implementation) or push them out with the client for speed, only pulling anything added after the freeze from the server.
<ubuntujenkins> the largest one is 406.8KB total 3mb
<ubuntujenkins> I think pull them from the server
<Red_HamsterX> I think so, too. It'll make changing thing on the fly a lot easier, and we've already developed and implemented the functions to make it work.
<ubuntujenkins> means the program is future proof, for the next release if someone were to try and use an older version of quickshot
<Red_HamsterX> Well, the next version will work differently... I'd say it means the design is future-proof.
<Red_HamsterX> Just not this implementation.
<Red_HamsterX> Since it's very much just a "get stuff working" structure right now.
<ubuntujenkins> true it just means that people can't aciedently take older screenshots
<Red_HamsterX> It needs a good refactoring cycle before we can be sure we're building it right.
<ubuntujenkins> we need to get testing it
<ubuntujenkins> 7 days untill release
<ubuntujenkins> we need to add the files to the sever for each screenshot that tell it what program to launch etc.
<Red_HamsterX> That's part of the dictionary structure.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll be working on that as soon as we've got proof that the client pulls data properly
<Red_HamsterX> It's already defined and tested.
<ubuntujenkins> is it all one file? I looked at the one in the branch
<Red_HamsterX> It just hasn't been integrated into the user's flow.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, just one.
<Red_HamsterX> Entries are delimited by -<name>- lines.
<Red_HamsterX> To allow for ordering in the event that you want to drop the number prefixes from the filenames.
<Red_HamsterX> That file is considered authoritative for everything.
<ubuntujenkins> thats where the screenshot description goes as well
<Red_HamsterX> Yep.
<Red_HamsterX> And the steps and the sub-rect data and anything else we may need to add as we go along.
<ubuntujenkins> I can help create that if you like, once we know it works
<Red_HamsterX> Any unknown fields are just treated as free-form text.
<Red_HamsterX> It works. It just needs to be integrated with the workflow.
<Red_HamsterX> I can quickly populate it with dummy data for each screenshot we have to take.
<Red_HamsterX> It can be updated in real time, since the client will have to query each individual entry before taking a screenshot.
<Red_HamsterX> So once the skeleton is done, we can just keep adjusting it until everything looks right.
<ubuntujenkins> I have jsut pushed the latest screenshots they are in /images/screenshots-samples
<ubuntujenkins> we are going to have 43-48 to do some of the other screenshots will be the same in all languages, ie grub, wubi, help icon, netwrok icon, window buttons.
<Red_HamsterX> ?
<Red_HamsterX> Why not create a 'common' language branch outside of the coded ones for things like that?
<Red_HamsterX> Then just update the pull/compile scripts to draw from that location, too.
<ubuntujenkins> I hadn't considered how i was going to do that, but Iw ill make that branch now
<ubuntujenkins> Only the screenshots we haev to do are in the quickshot branch
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87 and Red_HamsterX in the manual at the end there is a list of people who have contributed, what are you names as you would like them to appear ?
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, sure, it's Simon Vermeersch.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks I will add you when i next do a push
<ubuntujenkins> good day titeuf_87 ?
<titeuf_87> just got home from work and have some time now, so yeah :)
<titeuf_87> looking over at the changes made in quickshot, you only took the screenshots but haven't yet added any extra information right?
<ubuntujenkins> yep, Neil said he will add the info, the screenshots are going to be pulled from the server as an when needed, that way we can change them at the last minute if needed
<titeuf_87> And those that you included are definitive?
<Red_HamsterX> Neil Tallim works for me.
<Red_HamsterX> Anything you want me to look into on the GUI side, titeuf?
<ubuntujenkins> yes as far as i know I haven't ahd any writers moaning that i have got them wrong 01-first-slide will look different but will still be of that screen
<ubuntujenkins> thanks Red_Hamster
<titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, I'm going to add the detection of the used language now, then the descriptions of the screenshots before taking them
<titeuf_87> Hmm, not sure what else needs to be done on the GUI side except for polishing it then.
<ubuntujenkins> wow i didn't know we were that close.
<Red_HamsterX> So we just tell it what server to use (probably some sort of global constant) and go?
<Red_HamsterX> If so, I'll do some testing today.
<Red_HamsterX> Anything you absolutely want me to stay away from?
<titeuf_87> Yeah, right now it uses your test server as default, although you can override it by launching it with --server.
<Red_HamsterX> (i.e., sections of code you're working on and want to have left alone)
<ubuntujenkins> feel free to add the screenshots to the en bzr branch to check for the bzr hand shake
<titeuf_87> the gui side of the code is a bit of a mess (all in one class, different styles mixed together), but let's keep it that way and not make any big changes now
<ubuntujenkins> the gui needs tidying up
<titeuf_87> except for the get_active_language function, feel free to play around
<titeuf_87> going to eat now, back in a little bit
<Red_HamsterX> There's ugliness everywhere in the PHP side and error-detection could be a bit less draconic, so I can't criticise you for cluttered design. =P
<Red_HamsterX> Besides, we just need to have something working at this stage. We can use the next six months to make it right.
<ubuntujenkins> very true
<Red_HamsterX> Is the LiveCD that was discussed usable?
<ubuntujenkins> it will be when it is finished I need a ppa of wuickshot to finish it off
<ubuntujenkins> *quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> it will have quickshot pre installed and all of the languges. I couldn't get the default user to be Quickshot
<Red_HamsterX> Speaking of PPAs, can we make them depend on other packages?
<Red_HamsterX> In a liveCD environment, would the default user actually have to be Quickshot?
<ubuntujenkins> not sure I will look into it, what are the dependacies apart from disper
<ubuntujenkins> no it doesn't have to be quickshot but that was the ideal case
<Red_HamsterX> What about adding a dummy file to /etc/skel/ that tells Quickshot is can do whatever it wants?
<Red_HamsterX> it can do*
<Red_HamsterX> python-gtk2 and python-wnck
<Red_HamsterX> As far as my stuff is concerned.
<ubuntujenkins> if people starts taking screenshots then they will all have ubuntu in the top right and not quickshot
<Red_HamsterX> wnck is used to automate maximizing and stuff when possible.
<ubuntujenkins> added to the listy
<Red_HamsterX> And it will (time permitting) be used to replace my raw WM hints calls.
<Red_HamsterX> It handles failure and geometry better.
<Red_HamsterX> (libwnck is part of Gnome. The Python bindings, however, are not)
<ubuntujenkins> well if we can get a pre release out soon then we can get a head start and the change can be made in an update.
<ubuntujenkins> well i have a deb of quickshot now
<Red_HamsterX> Is it easy to build one using debhelper?
<Red_HamsterX> (In case I want to try it on some other systems)
<Red_HamsterX> (Which I probably won't)
<titeuf_87> back now
<titeuf_87> normally quickly will detect the dependencies for us when it makes a deb package
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, right. I forgot about that.
<ubuntujenkins> all i did was quickly package but dependacies were not detected
<Red_HamsterX> About Quickly's facilities, I mean.
<ubuntujenkins> also before we package there are a few lines of code to change
<ubuntujenkins> off to get food o/
<titeuf_87> I just did a quick test of packaging and it correctly found python-gtk2 and python-wnck as dependencies.
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: where did it list the dependancies?
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, I installed it and checked in synaptic (there's probably a better way to check without having to install it first, but I'm not sure how)
<ubuntujenkins> are makes sense rather obvious, i am going to try and make disper a dependancy as well
<titeuf_87> I thought that was only needed for nvidia cards?
<ubuntujenkins> yes but it is neater if we have it as a depndancy than having to check it is installed every time
 * ubuntujenkins should really learn how to spell dependency
<titeuf_87> It's why I love using the built-in spell-checker in xchat.
<ubuntujenkins> I do but I type to quick and often forget to check
<titeuf_87> Is disper available in the standard ubuntu repositories?
<ubuntujenkins> no its not, I am hoping the developer will let us add it to our ppa
<ubuntujenkins> he has a ppa of it
<titeuf_87> Problem with that then that everyone that wishes to use quickshot will need to install that package, even if they don't use an nvidia card.
<ubuntujenkins> mm I know the bit at the start anoys me, with out it the program flows better
<titeuf_87> Well lshw doesn't work that fast, which is used to see if we have an nvidia card.
<titeuf_87> Can't we replace that with something faster?
<ubuntujenkins> not sure i will see what we can do, at the moment adding a manual dependency doesn't work
<ubuntujenkins> you are suppose to be able to do quickly configure dependencies but it doesn't work
<titeuf_87> Basically we could check the xorg.conf file to see what driver it uses...although, not sure if that's a great way to go about it.
<titeuf_87> Also, does the livecd use the binary nvidia driver?
<Red_HamsterX> xorg.conf doesn't exist by default.
<ubuntujenkins> we can't as 10.04 doesn't have one by default,
<ubuntujenkins> the live cd will use nouvea which excepts xrandr
<titeuf_87> It depends on how most users will take the screenshots, if most will download the livecd you're making, then it won't be an issue as we can always use xrandr then.
<ubuntujenkins> I think we will have to leave it as it is at the moment
<titeuf_87> Yeah, it's not -that- bad as it only happens once at startup.
<Red_HamsterX> Why does nvidia support matter?
<ubuntujenkins> because we want as many users as possible to take screenshots
<Red_HamsterX> We should be able to screencap things with only VESA...
<titeuf_87> The only reason we check for nvidia is to be able to change the resolution automatically.
<ubuntujenkins> also godbyk will so file a bug if we don't support nvidia :-P
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> That makes sense.
<Red_HamsterX> Except...
<Red_HamsterX> Wait...
<Red_HamsterX> Why couldn't we just use VESA for that?
<Red_HamsterX> That should support xrandr just fine.
<Red_HamsterX> Just pare down the modules list to restrict what X can load.
<Red_HamsterX> .
<Red_HamsterX> -.
<ubuntujenkins> i may be on the wrong vesa but wikipedia says VESA has issued a number of standards, mostly relating to the function of video peripherals in personal computers
<ubuntujenkins> i am confused on the use of vesa
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: did you get that packaging up the manual is not going to work?
<ubuntujenkins> no i missed that
<ubuntujenkins> what shall i do a ppa shot of?
<titeuf_87> vesa is a really basic driver that works with every graphic card and doesn't use any kind of acceleration
<Red_HamsterX> "VESA", referring to the X driver, is among the most primitive in existence. Every card in circulation supports it.
<Red_HamsterX> It's got no card-specific enhancements.
<Red_HamsterX> It's not really much more useful than a framebuffer.
<titeuf_87> And we could use that for the livecd, but we can't change the graphic drivers of already installed systems.
<Red_HamsterX> But it should be enough.
<ubuntujenkins> does it support 1024x768?
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf beat me to it. D:
<ubuntujenkins> also it may be to much for this release
<titeuf_87> Doesn't support compiz though and all those shiny effects, but I don't think you can actually see that in screenshots.
<Red_HamsterX> Not having those would be kinda helpful, actually.
<ubuntujenkins> i guessed that
<ubuntujenkins> to what titeuf said
<Red_HamsterX> Since their drop shadows add to the geometry of windows.
<ubuntujenkins> ooo we have a quickshot question
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, no!
<ubuntujenkins> just answering now
<titeuf_87> On the UI-side of things, when would be a good time to show the steps/explanation of the screenshot?
<titeuf_87> Right now I show its description under the list of screenshots when you select one, but I still need to show the explanation steps.
<titeuf_87> Adding another window with just that before the capture window does seem kind of silly.
<ubuntujenkins> put them in the capture window
<titeuf_87> I'll try, hopefully the window won't get too big.
<ubuntujenkins> just a thought also can we decorate the window with only a mimize button?
<titeuf_87> We can, although I don't think that's really needed. The capture window hides itself right before taking the screenshot so it'll never show up.
<ubuntujenkins> I was thinking if the user has to set some stuff up that happens to be behind it
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: you know the comment you put on line 190 if the quickshot file next to os.system('cd /home/quickshot/quickshot && bzr pull lp:quickshot')
<titeuf_87> yeah
<titeuf_87> Forgot to ask why it was there.
<titeuf_87> But I don't think it's needed: this is run when quickshot is already launched, if we do that we'll have to check if any files got changed, and if any were, then restart quickshot.
<ubuntujenkins> when you are next there can you uncomment it as it means we don't have to run quickly run -r all the time. It updates the user with the branch every time we open the quickshot program in the quickshot user
<ubuntujenkins> it may be in the wrong place then
<ubuntujenkins> I didn't add it
<titeuf_87> Also, if we package quickshot on a livecd or in a ppa we can't just download the latest version from bzr.
<ubuntujenkins> I know that line will be one of the ones that goes from the code before packaging
<ubuntujenkins> they are work arounds whilst we use quickly
<dutchie> using quickly is not a barrier to having a ppa
<dutchie> it's a positive boon
<ubuntujenkins> reword (work arounds for the testing branch)
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, try out my latest changes I just pushed?
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: pulling now
<titeuf_87> If everything works well, this was the last bit that was missing for basic functionality.
<ubuntujenkins> Traceback (most recent call last):
<ubuntujenkins>   File "bin/quickshot", line 25, in <module>
<ubuntujenkins>     import babel
<ubuntujenkins> ImportError: No module named babel
<Red_HamsterX> We'll probably want to show the user the commands that will be issued to launch applications.
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: what should the module be
<titeuf_87> Install the python-pybabel package ubuntujenkins
<Red_HamsterX> Just so they don't authorize something bad, like rm -rf ~/*
<Red_HamsterX> (Maybe a tiny label at the bottom of the screenshot prompt window)
<ubuntujenkins> i forgot that package I did a clean install the other day
<titeuf_87> They wouldn't lose much as it runs as its own user. But doubt anyone would want to use quickshot anymore if someone ever sees a command like that.
<titeuf_87> But I'll it in there anyways.
<titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, does your server mention if a screenshot should be a full-screen one instead of just a window?
<Red_HamsterX> Well, it's more of a precaution than anything else...
<Red_HamsterX> It's an optional dictionary value.
<Red_HamsterX> 'maximize': bool
<Red_HamsterX> There's also 'maximize-delay': int.
<Red_HamsterX> Which is the number of seconds to wait after launching the subprocess before trying to maximize it.
<titeuf_87> Ah I thought maximize meant that we should try to maximize the application.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, it does.
<Red_HamsterX> I haven't written anything to manage subprocesses.
<Red_HamsterX> But if you give me a module into which such functions should be placed, I'll add it.
<Red_HamsterX> Managing processes seems like it should be outside of the Webserver/Xserver domain.
<titeuf_87> Yeah, right now the applications gets launched when we click on the next button after selecting a screenshot.
<titeuf_87> And gets maximized too if needed.
<Red_HamsterX> if data_dict.get('maximize'): sleep for delay (if specified), attempt to auto-maximize.
<titeuf_87> I meant for full screen screenshots, like one of the whole desktop, without any applications running.
<Red_HamsterX> The maximize function I provided is only semi-reliable, though. It doesn't keep trying until the window's state changes, though I could add that functionality with a thread, if needed.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh.
<Red_HamsterX> No, there's no flag for that.
<Red_HamsterX> I figured that would be implied by the lack of a command.
<Red_HamsterX> But we can add an explicit value, if you want.
<Red_HamsterX> (It's super-easy to do)
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, maybe we should...
<Red_HamsterX> Since it's possible that there may be something we can't launch programmatically.
<Red_HamsterX> But still need to capture in windowed form.
<titeuf_87> I think it's better to explicitly add that, although I can't think of an example right now of why.
<Red_HamsterX> Just come up with a key for it, then.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll translate it into a boolean.
<titeuf_87> Just use fullsceen, simple enough and will avoid confusion.
<Red_HamsterX> Okay. Gimme a moment to add it.
<ubuntujenkins> ok going to do a reboot then i will test quickshot the user detection is palyinmg up
<titeuf_87> Ah good, that means we can fix it. What's wrong with it?
<Red_HamsterX> 'fullscreen' is now an optional boolean key. Assume False if not set, I suppose.
<ubuntujenkins> not sure
<Red_HamsterX> I can give it a default value if you want, but .get() sould be sufficient.
<titeuf_87> It's fine like this, thanks!
 * Red_HamsterX updates the docstrings.
<titeuf_87> Could you also add an example screenshot like the gedit one on your server that uses fullscreen and another one with sub-rect?
<Red_HamsterX> We should probably start adding real screencap entries.
<Red_HamsterX> But, yeah, I'll add two more in a moment.
 * Red_HamsterX collects food-stuff.
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: it works :-)
<titeuf_87> Sweet!
<ubuntujenkins> can you neaten up the windows i metiont he other day
<titeuf_87> Ah right, what was the problem with that exactly?
<ubuntujenkins> they are supposibly set up the same but they look different
<titeuf_87> Right, I'll take a look.
<ubuntujenkins> thansk i can't work it our
<titeuf_87> I always run quickshot with -n so I don't see those windows.
<ubuntujenkins> click skip so you can see the other window.
<ubuntujenkins> I have to do some revison but ping me and i will look when i get back
<Red_HamsterX> There are now three entries.
<titeuf_87> Thanks!
<Red_HamsterX> Also, entries will show up in the order they're defined in the dictionary.
<Red_HamsterX> So you don't need to have any sort of local list.
<Red_HamsterX> Or worry about working in alphabetical order or anything like that.
<titeuf_87> Ah, I do explicitly order them. I'll take that bit out then.
<Red_HamsterX> It occurred to me last night that preserving order would probably be helpful.
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, I just fixed those layout problems, I think it looks fine now, but let me know if it doesn't.
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: they look better but the icons are two far to the left also the label for the countdown has gone.
<ubuntujenkins> its a definate improvement though
<titeuf_87> Ok, I'll fix those issues too.
<ubuntujenkins> Thansk I think the label was label19
<titeuf_87> it showed below the normal text right?
<titeuf_87> I was wondering why an empty label was there and deleted it.
<ubuntujenkins> yea but you can put it where you like, it doesn't look that good there
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, going to finish this tomorrow. I'm going to bed now.
<titeuf_87> Night all.
<ubuntujenkins> night titeuf_87
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie i fixed the build for the fi manual if i upload the po file will i break any thing?
<dutchie> not if you didn't do anything wrong
<dutchie> email me a diff if you like to check it
<ubuntujenkins> whats your e-mail? I only removed a \ from about 10 lines for some reason some commands have two \\ in and work but others don't
<dutchie> jrh@joshh.co.uk
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: sent
<dutchie> you'll probably get greylisted, so I may have to wait a while
<ubuntujenkins> ok, on lucid when a windows in active do the buttons change order for you?
<dutchie> no, they just change colour
<ubuntujenkins> oh no its the background that changes the oval shape is messed up
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: http://www.imagesocket.com/upload/
<ubuntujenkins> opps http://www.imagesocket.com/view/Screenshotd57.png
<dutchie> nope, not seeing that
<dutchie> file a bug
<dutchie> 3
<dutchie> 2
<ubuntujenkins> your e-mail failed
<dutchie> bah, manualbot
<ubuntujenkins> hello manualbot
<dutchie> you ruined my countdown,
<ubuntujenkins> ok e-mail sent a again typo as usual
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: ahh, don't go
<jaminday> mornin' all
<ubuntujenkins> why?
<dutchie> did you try building the manual in that language?
<ubuntujenkins> morning jaminday
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<dutchie> did it work>
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<dutchie> go for it then
<ubuntujenkins> I will ask gobyk in the morning as there are a few errors with chapter links but it does build fine
<ubuntujenkins> I am confused why there is a double \ before most commands
<ubuntujenkins> bug #543384
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 543384 in simple-scan "Toolbar confusing for new users" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/543384
<ubuntujenkins> thank you manualbot
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<jaminday> dutchie: ping
<dutchie> jaminday: pong
<jaminday> are you familiar with the command "sudo change -M 90 username"
<dutchie> no
<dutchie> why?
<jaminday> hmm - you have access to the bug spreadsheet? There is a bug report we aren't sure on
<jaminday> dutchie: actually don't worry - i think the offending section has already been removed from the manual
<godbyk> I'm awake again.
<godbyk> Just reading through 8 hours of backlog. :)
<jaminday> godbyk: fun!
<godbyk> To donri: It's evince. If you load our pdf using xpdf or acroread (Adobe Acrobat Reader), then they look a lot nicer.
<godbyk> artnay: Errors in the log files are marked by one of two things: The word "Error:" or an exclamation point (!) at the beginning of the line.
<godbyk> artnay: The hyphen won't break the syntax in \gls{Canonical}-niminen yritys.  But you do have to make sure that 'Canonical' stays untranslated here and only translate the name/description parts in the corresponding \newglossaryentry line.
<godbyk> Okay, caught up on the backlog now. :)
<semioticrobotic> lucky!
<semioticrobotic> is this syntax correct?
<semioticrobotic> See \chaplink{ch:system-maintenance} for how to update your Ubuntu computer with the latest security updates and patches.
<godbyk> semioticrobotic: Yes, the syntax is fine.
<semioticrobotic> hmm
<semioticrobotic> okay
<semioticrobotic> thanks, godbyk
<godbyk> no problem
<semioticrobotic> is jamin still here?
<godbyk> artnay: Whenever you get back: The only LaTeX-related problems I found in the Finnish translation is that when you type "uusi_hakemisto", you need to escape the underscore (_) character with a backslash (\).
<godbyk> artnay: So change "uusi_hakemisto" to "uusi\_hakemisto" in the four instances and the manual compiles fine.
<godbyk> jaminday: ping
<semioticrobotic> jaminday, that bug report regarding "chage?"
<semioticrobotic> I was the one who edited that portion out of the manual!
<semioticrobotic> ha!
<godbyk> I'll be right back. Need to find something to eat.
<godbyk> Back.. with chili.
<semioticrobotic> mmmm
<semioticrobotic> chili
<jaminday> godbyk + semioticrobotic: hey, sorry pidgin has decided to stop telling me when someone pings me
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-26
<semioticrobotic> ha!  no worries
<jaminday> semioticrobotic: ha that's great - you must have been on autopilot when you did it if you forgot!
<semioticrobotic> yeah, and it was a few days ago
<semioticrobotic> I just made a supereditor decision and commented out the entire section of Chapter 7 devoted to sudo
<semioticrobotic> someone left a comment saying that this was covered elsewhere in the manual ... and indeed it is
<jaminday> really?
<jaminday> i didn't realise
<humphreybc> what's that?
<humphreybc> oh hi everyone
<jaminday> heeeeeeeres humphreybc
<semioticrobotic> evening humphreybc
<semioticrobotic> (at least, it is where I am!)
<humphreybc> it's a ridiculously nice day here
<jaminday> "I just made a supereditor decision and commented out the entire section of Chapter 7 devoted to sudo" -- semioticrobotic about 3 seconds before humphreybc arrived
<semioticrobotic> thanks, jaminday
<semioticrobotic> sudo is covered extensively enough in Chapter 6
<humphreybc> okay, cool
<semioticrobotic> now, someone left a comment suggesting that section be converted into something on permissions
<semioticrobotic> I agree, but it means we need someone to write a section on permissions!
<jaminday> could it wait till 10.10?
<semioticrobotic> unfortunately, I don't know enough about permissions to do this
<semioticrobotic> most likely it could
<humphreybc> that was me
<humphreybc> just a suggestion
<humphreybc> but yeah, if no one has time then that's all good
<jaminday> it's definitely an important topic
<humphreybc> (you could steal some stuff from the community docs)
<humphreybc> or here
<humphreybc> http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/permissions
<humphreybc> not sure what  license that is
<humphreybc> i know we can take wording from here tho
<humphreybc> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions
<semioticrobotic> This is good stuff, but it actually might be too complicated for a new user
<humphreybc> copy/paste and simplify?
<humphreybc> we just need to explain what it is/how it works
<semioticrobotic> how can we address the issue of permissions with instructions that refer to the command line?
<humphreybc> you don't need to explain to users how to change permissions
<semioticrobotic> okay
<humphreybc> don't have any command line stuff
<humphreybc> just an introduction/overview to permissions
<jaminday> it might be a good troubleshooting topic for future
<humphreybc> i'm sure between the psychocats and that community page you'll be able to come up with a couple of paragraphs
<humphreybc> jaminday: it's not really a problem though
<jaminday> but maybe something like "why can't i copy this file to this location"
<semioticrobotic> actually, this is the security chapter
<semioticrobotic> sorry, did I forget to mention that?
<humphreybc> hey!! nisshh said this, "More work on the prologue, long way to go yet though."
<humphreybc> i've finished the damn prologue!
<semioticrobotic> ah, but jaminday is suggesting it for a future topic in 8 as well
<semioticrobotic> I was wondering about that!
<jaminday> humphreybc: i think he was referring to the glossary?
<humphreybc> must have been
<jaminday> actually we decided to delete your entire prologue and start again
<jaminday> hope that's ok
<semioticrobotic> I commented out the entire prologue, actually
<semioticrobotic> supereditor
<semioticrobotic> can't touch me
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> I had a friend suggest we should do a translation into pirate speak
<semioticrobotic> Then I say your friend is awesome.
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe for 10.10.
<jaminday> hehe
<semioticrobotic> And I think one version of the manual should be produced entirely in Comic Sans
<humphreybc> jaminday: OMG i was thinking that same thing!
<Red_HamsterX> In celebration to 10.09.19
<Red_HamsterX> of
<jaminday> ha classic! semioticrobotic yes definitely!
<semioticrobotic> make one copy of the Comic Sans version, get the team to sign it, and auction it off
<jaminday> semioticrobotic: it would have to be shipped around the world for everyone to sign it
<semioticrobotic> exactly!
<jaminday> i think that's a great idea
<semioticrobotic> how cool would that be?
<humphreybc> that would be cool
<humphreybc> neat idea
<jaminday> although i don't think i want to give humphreybc my address
<semioticrobotic> though auctioning might not be possible (depending on the CC license we chose)
<jaminday> never know what will turn up!
 * semioticrobotic laughs
<godbyk> I think I'd have to refuse to sign a Comic Sans edition out of principle. :)
<semioticrobotic> ha!
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> we could just do the regular version
<humphreybc> the comic sans one is a bit... comic sansy
<godbyk> That's be neat. What would we do with the money?
<jaminday> pay someone to do a pirate translation?
<Red_HamsterX> Pay for your bandwidth?
<jaminday> then we could auction off the pirate translation and make even more money!
<humphreybc> buy big monitors
<humphreybc> ?
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: what's the status of Quickshot? Can we test it yet?
<Red_HamsterX> I'll be doing some testing tonight.
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf has most of the issues worked out, and ubuntujenkins was providing feedback on the GUI earlier today.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Cool. Lemme know when I can go through and nit-pick again. :)
<semioticrobotic> awesome!
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> so it'll be ready by the 31st?
<Red_HamsterX> I can't imagine that it wouldn't be.
<humphreybc> that's fantastic news!
<godbyk> I'm impressed!
 * humphreybc loves testing Ubuntu, 203mb of updates available after just one night
<godbyk> The live CD is such an awesome idea!
<humphreybc> huh?
<godbyk> A Quickshot Live CD.
<godbyk> Boot up the CD, run quickshot, take screenshots
<godbyk> Simple.
<godbyk> don't have to install anything
<humphreybc> oh neat
<humphreybc> is that what's happening?
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<humphreybc> wow
<humphreybc> that is awesome
<Red_HamsterX> That's what ubuntujenkins has been working on.
<semioticrobotic> In Ubuntu, files and folders can be modified so that only specific users can view, modify, or run them.  For instance, you might wish to share an important file with other users, but do not want those users to be able to edit the file.  Ubuntu controls access to files on your computer through a system of "permissions."  Permissions are settings that you can configure to control exactly how files on your computer are acces
<semioticrobotic> sed and used.
<Red_HamsterX> I've been cleaning up a few small contracts and bug reports.
<humphreybc> you guys need to fill me in at some point so i can make all the instructions/blog posts/publicity about it
<jaminday> semioticrobotic: nice
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: that'll do
<semioticrobotic> okay
<humphreybc> good work :)
<semioticrobotic> ...followed by a URL to community docs, of course
<humphreybc> yup
<semioticrobotic> can I humbly ask to add my name to the 'credits' file?
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: haha sure
<humphreybc> the current one is just a placeholder
<humphreybc> I'll be going through around RC and adding in everyone properly, in alphabetical order etc
<semioticrobotic> okay, then I won't bother modifying anything right now
<humphreybc> so I'm curious as to how you guys got Quickshot + Ubuntu + language packs(?) all on a CD?
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: ^^ ?
<Red_HamsterX> Dunno.
<Red_HamsterX> I have no connection to that.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm guessing a number of non-essential packages were stripped or they'll be downloaded at launch.
<Red_HamsterX> Or maybe it's a DVD.
<humphreybc> okay neat
<semioticrobotic> gah
<semioticrobotic> i think I screwed something up
<jaminday> semioticrobotic: you deleted the prologue again?
<semioticrobotic> lol
<semioticrobotic> I commited changes
<semioticrobotic> then the wireless dropped out before I could push
<semioticrobotic> now I get an error message
<semioticrobotic> the branch has diverged
<jaminday> hmm - that could be if someone else has pushed changes since you last did a pull
<Red_HamsterX> Make a diff before doing anything.
<semioticrobotic> how do I do that?
<Red_HamsterX> Gimme a moment to pull the old branch first...
<Red_HamsterX> bzr diff > ~/changes.patch #this would probably be sufficient.
<Red_HamsterX> That way, if we need to revert to a pre-merge version for any reason, we can apply your changes to that tree.
<Red_HamsterX> Unless you need to specify what you're diffing against...
<Red_HamsterX> In case it considers your last commit the target.
<semioticrobotic> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: changes.patch
<Red_HamsterX> The > is significant.
<semioticrobotic> it worked
<Red_HamsterX> And you may need to use 'bzr diff -r 590 > location'.
<Red_HamsterX> Since 590 is the version currently in Launchpad.
<semioticrobotic> I didn't receive any output
<semioticrobotic> what did I just do?
<Red_HamsterX> > redirects all output the a file.
<humphreybc> Sarantan dude pushed again
<semioticrobotic> gah.
<Red_HamsterX> Did he push or merge?
<Red_HamsterX> to a file*
 * humphreybc looks
<humphreybc> pushed
<humphreybc> he didn't merge
<humphreybc> added some stuff on webcams and printing
<humphreybc> =|
<Red_HamsterX> If you cat or edit ~/changes.patch, you'll see a diff3 list of everything that you've changed.
<humphreybc> what's a nice way of telling him to stop adding stuff to the branch?
<Red_HamsterX> Where else is he supposed to put it?
<humphreybc> nowhere, the content freeze has been and gone
<humphreybc> in theory we shouldn't be accepting any more material, only edits
<Red_HamsterX> Just say that, then.
<humphreybc> I could ask him to store it locally for 10.10
<Red_HamsterX> The freeze has passed, so please make a note of things for the next revision.
<semioticrobotic> changes.patch is an empty file
<Red_HamsterX> Or you could fork the current branch for 10.10.
<Red_HamsterX> And have him work against that.
<Red_HamsterX> semioticrobotic, use the second version of my command, then.
<Red_HamsterX> The -r 590 one.
<semioticrobotic> I did
<semioticrobotic> same result
<Red_HamsterX> Odd...
<Red_HamsterX> 589?
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe your 590 is different from our 590.
<Red_HamsterX> (Due to this push)
<semioticrobotic> boom
<semioticrobotic> there we go
<Red_HamsterX> Yay.
<semioticrobotic> it's seriously the three sentences i added to a single file
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, so if, when you merge, something goes wrong, you can send us that file and we can work it out.
<semioticrobotic> okay
<Red_HamsterX> Meh. Still good practice.
<semioticrobotic> so go ahead and merge?
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme take a look at what was just added...
<semioticrobotic> okay
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, merge. He only changed two files, so I can quickly check to nake sure his new content is still there.
<semioticrobotic> ok
<Red_HamsterX> Your next commit should show changes to webcam.tex and printing.tex, since it'll contain his changes as sub-revisions.
<semioticrobotic> ok
<semioticrobotic> here goes
<semioticrobotic> pushed
 * Red_HamsterX waits for Launchpad to scan things.
<semioticrobotic> sure is taking its time
<semioticrobotic> :)
<Red_HamsterX> security.tex?
<semioticrobotic> yep!
<Red_HamsterX> Looks good, then.
<Red_HamsterX> I see his changes and yours.
<semioticrobotic> *whew*
<semioticrobotic> thanks, guys!
<semioticrobotic> I was sweating
<Red_HamsterX> bzr: serious business
<Red_HamsterX> Or something.
<semioticrobotic> lol
<semioticrobotic> you got it
<Red_HamsterX> I dunno how that meme works.
<semioticrobotic> alright, time to turn in
<Red_HamsterX> G'night~
<semioticrobotic> take care, everyone
<jaminday> I had to sort out some conflicts in the branch last night. I've never done it before and it was about 2am here - my head was going crazy.
<humphreybc> haha
<Red_HamsterX> Conflicts aren't *that* bad, since at least you know what you're actually pushing.
<humphreybc> 'if you break the branch i will destroy you
<jaminday> humphreybc: lol
<Red_HamsterX> Merging is scary, since we don't know how it actually works yet.
<jaminday> Red_HamsterX: yeah i figured it out in the end
<jaminday> But i freaked at first
<Red_HamsterX> I remember my first SVN conflict.
<Red_HamsterX> My first thought was, coming from CVS, "
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, great. It's corrupt again."
<Red_HamsterX> -again
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> I had conflict in 2 files. I spent about an hour searching through them with meld to realise that it came down to a \gls command had been added in both
<Red_HamsterX> Gah. :(
 * jaminday is off to hunt for some lunch
<Takyoji> It would be interesting if there was also a project for creating documentation or learning materials for new computer users as well, in context of Ubuntu
<Takyoji> As I haven't really found anything of such.
<Takyoji> Something just a little more primitive of topics than the Ubuntu Manual. Perhaps something that could be a prerequisite to such.
<Takyoji> For basic terminology, when to double-click or single-click, etc. It probably wouldn't even be that much of content to go over either.
<Red_HamsterX> Takyoji, that sounds like the Ubuntu-Beginners' mandate.
<Red_HamsterX> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/MissionStatement
<Takyoji> I guess I haven't come across it before; perhaps it would be something I could participate with.
<Red_HamsterX> Not quite that basic, but they're kinda close to that level.
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, I may be totally wrong.
<Red_HamsterX> I must be confusing them with another project. :(
<Red_HamsterX> They're more migration.
<Takyoji> Moreso with going from another operating system to Ubuntu?
<pleia2> the ubuntu learning project is working to write course materials that people can teach
<pleia2> starting with really low level intro to classes
<Takyoji> ahh
<pleia2> but we need more volunteers, haven't really gotten things off the ground yet besides some sysadmin courses (which are more advanced)
<humphreybc> UMP has plans for a quick start guide at some point too
<Red_HamsterX> Why did I make my Lucid password non-standard?
<Red_HamsterX> Ugh... When there's only the red X in Lucid's control box, it looks super-ugly.
<Red_HamsterX> apport: full report: 26.6MB; reduced report: 13.3KB.
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone see a problem here?
<RPG-Master> Hey, wasn't it decided that Lucid keep the window buttons on the right side?
<Takyoji> For some reason I thought the same as well; but I haven't seen it reverted.
<Takyoji> It would be nice if there was an option in the Appearance dialog of what the window buttons orientation would be, so that people would have a choice either way.
<RPG-Master> I just noticed that the screenshots in the manual have the buttons on the left
<humphreybc> they'll probably be staying on the left
<Takyoji> What's the straightforward method of tweaking such, without having to install any specialized app for such?
<Takyoji> Random fact: I'm running 10.04, and have been current with updates, yet my window controls are actually still on the right.
<Red_HamsterX> Did you upgrade from 9.10?
<Takyoji> Actually no, it's a separate installation
<Takyoji> Either Alpha 1 or 2.
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot rev 100 pushed!
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/100 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 100
 * Red_HamsterX eats the bot.
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm... Can anyone try to reproduce a bug with the Users and Groups application that manifests when trying to delete the quickshot account?
<Red_HamsterX> Requires Lucid.
<Takyoji> (if I had Quickshot installed currently, I would try)
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, it could just be because I haven't restarted since doing a dist-upgrade.
<Red_HamsterX> After a month.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, that looks like it was the problem.
<Red_HamsterX> humphreybc, Quickshot is now minimally functional: we can give it instructions from the server and it will do as we command. IT'S ALIVE. Or something.
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone around, please ask titeuf_87 to look at the Quickshot section under http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F when he's back.
<Red_HamsterX> (It still needs polish and error-handling, but we can start populating the development system with real data now)
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> hello, yesterday I changed the fi po fiel i am yet to update it but it now compiles to the end this is the diff of it .......
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/401631/
<ubuntujenkins> as you will see there are often two \\ before laytex commands i removed one of them before the "userinput" command and now it works, but why does the "prompt" one work with two\
<godbyk> ah, leave the two backslashes in.
<godbyk> the po file uses a backslash to escape LaTeX's backslash.
<godbyk> Otherwise, it would expand things like \n to newline, \t to tab, etc.
<ubuntujenkins> thats why i didn't upload it
<godbyk> The problem in the fi translation is that the underscores need to be escaped with a backslash.
<godbyk> artnay: Whenever you get back: The only LaTeX-related problems I found in the Finnish translation is that when you type "uusi_hakemisto", you need to escape the underscore (_) character with a backslash (\).
<ubuntujenkins> right i see
<godbyk> That's what I sent earlier, but artnay hasn't responded (yet).
<godbyk> Changine uusi_hakemisto to uusi\_hakemisto should work
<godbyk> (or with two backslashes if you're editing the po file directly.)
<ubuntujenkins> nice ok if i go through and update the po file is that ok
<godbyk> should be.
<ubuntujenkins> ooo not seen this before Success!  Wrote 153 pages
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah, I prettied up the output a bit.
<godbyk> to make it easier to see errors and warnings.
<ubuntujenkins> its nice does this count as a eorror as far as the list on bulds.ubuntu....       Overfull \hbox (8.73792pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 6648--6649
<ubuntujenkins> []\EU1/LinuxLibertineO(0)/m/n/9 mozilla_help_viewer_project
<ubuntujenkins> because there were 24 eorrors in th fi file but i only changed 6 lines
<godbyk> Nope, that doesn't count.
<godbyk> The error count on the builds page is from lines containing "Error:" and those that begin with "!"
<godbyk> The warning count is those lines that contain "Warning:"
<godbyk> I stole the color coding from the original Makefile we had.
<godbyk> I need to modify it to show the stuff I really care about.
<godbyk> Overfull boxes are important to fix, but that'll be one of the last things we do.
<godbyk> (They just mean lines that are too long.)
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i figured but i was unsure if it counted as build error
<ubuntujenkins> this is interesting to learn
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: are you still text bug fixing ?
<godbyk> how are we doing on bug fixing?
<ubuntujenkins> for quickshot or the manual?
<godbyk> I figured I'd spend this weekend going through the manual and trying to fix all the nit-picky bugs I could find.
<godbyk> But I wanted to want 'til most of the obvious ones were out of the way.
<godbyk> the manual.
<godbyk> and quickshot. :)
<ubuntujenkins> we have no official quickshot bugs just tweaks to make
<ubuntujenkins> no screenshot bugs yet
<godbyk> gotcha.
<godbyk> give me a holler if you want me to run through quickshot again with my pedant's hat on. :)
<ubuntujenkins> 206 fixes on the manual
<ubuntujenkins> i will godbyk in a day or two
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<godbyk> k
<artnay> godbyk: ok, thanks for the info. I escaped those lines. I'm currently installing texlive (using the script from wiki as texlive from repos doesn't seem to work well enough)
<godbyk> artnay: Great!  ubuntujenkins has updated the po file, but if you make the changes in launchpad (rosetta), they will be incorporated in.
<godbyk> artnay: Also, let me know if you encounter any problems installing tex live 2009 or compiling the manual.
<artnay> godbyk: I'm getting http 500 errors with the script - TLDownload::get_file: response error: 500 read timeout permanent server connection set up, but downloading did not succeed!Retrying with wget.
<godbyk> artnay: It sounds like the server it's trying to download from is offline.
<artnay> godbyk: what's wrong with texlive from repos? apt-cache says it's 2009-7, shouldn't that work?
<godbyk> you might hit Ctrl+C to cancel the installation and try it again, but select a different mirror this time.
<godbyk> artnay: It may, but I can't guarantee it.  When I checked a couple months ago, it appeared to be missing some of the LaTeX packages we require.  Plus, they're already out of date.
<jaminday> Is anyone here running lucid at the moment?
<godbyk> jaminday: I am on my laptop.
<jaminday> godbyk: are you able to tell me what options you have in the Session Indicator applet?
<godbyk> which is that? the shutdown button menu thingy?
<jaminday> yep
<godbyk> Sure
<jaminday> i think that's what it's actually called
<godbyk> Lock Screen
<godbyk> Guest Session
<godbyk> Switch from kevin...
<godbyk> Log Out...
<godbyk> Sleep
<godbyk> Hibernate
<godbyk> Restart...
<godbyk> Switch Off...
<godbyk> there's a menu separator between Switch from kevin... and Log Out...
<jaminday> Ah ok great. Sleep was missing from my virtualbox install, so it must only appear if you are on a laptop.
<jaminday> What is the difference between sleep and hibernate?
<godbyk> Hibernate should (I think!) save the memory state to disk and power off the laptop, basically.
<godbyk> So it's like an even deeper sleep.
<godbyk> Uses much less battery power, etc.
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> thanks godbyk
<godbyk> no prob
<jaminday> One other thing- does pressing Ctrl Alt Del do anything on your laptop?
<godbyk> let's see.
<godbyk> It brings up a window for shutting down.
<godbyk> has options
<godbyk> hold on
<godbyk> switch off
<godbyk> restart
<godbyk> sleep
<godbyk> hibernate
<godbyk> and says that it will shutdown automatically in 60 seconds.
<jaminday> Ah great. Again that didn't work in virtualbox so just needed to check.
<jaminday> thanks again!
<godbyk> gotcha.
<godbyk> I had to shut down the windows that were open (just in case it did something bad). :)
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> glad it didn't fry your computer!
<godbyk> it's a fresh install, so no worries, there.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: on your computer do bzr launchpad-login userid replacing "userid" with you launchpad login, that way you will get karma
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: once we have a build of quickshot we can release I am going to make the quickshot live cd, I was going to put it on the wiki but the realised any one can change it. Are you able to add it to the server?
<godbyk> Yeah, I can do that.
<ubuntujenkins> will it be best of i put it in a bzr branch?
<godbyk> Put an iso image in a bzr branch?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<ubuntujenkins> not sure how else i can get it to you
<godbyk> Hmm..
<godbyk> Dropbox, perhaps?
<ubuntujenkins> they don't work they have a file size limit
<godbyk> Oh, that stinks.
<ubuntujenkins> I know its caused me a problem before
<godbyk> Well, when you have one ready, we'll find a way to get it transferred.
<godbyk> If nothing else, I'll just have you ftp to my computer and I can upload it to the server.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks, it will be ready when we have a release
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> If you think there will be tons and tons of people downloading it, we may want to have it mirrored.
<ubuntujenkins> how do we do that? get other people to haev it on there servers?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc/ any one have you any good ideas for a ppa to use in the screenshot, ideally something a new user would find fun/useful
<ubuntujenkins> I have no clue on download figures at all
<artnay> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/files/head%3A/screenshots/ there will be more dirs (named after country ISO code?), right? so in translations if we have \setmaxscreenshot{screenshots/en/02-blank-desktop.png} - we only change the en dir to own language, right?
<godbyk> artnay: Just leave that line alone in the translations.
<godbyk> It gets updated automatically by LaTeX at run-time.
<godbyk> Well, compile-time, rather.
<godbyk> I thought I had a note about that someplace.
 * godbyk looks
<godbyk> oh, I don't.
<godbyk> I'll fix that.
<artnay> \SI{384}{\mega\byte} of system memory (\smallcaps{RAM}) will the units be translated automatically?
<godbyk> artnay: \SI{384}{\mega\byte} will look like "384 MB" in the text.  If you're not using the SI units, then you will need to delete the whole \SI command and write in your translation.
<godbyk> (\SI can't handle other languages.)
<nisshh> hey
<nisshh> humphreybc: did you get my mugshot?
<artnay> godbyk: ok. what about CC license, will it stay in English?
<godbyk> We're going to pull translated CC licenses from the CC website.
<artnay> great
<nisshh> hey, artnay
<nisshh> and godbyk
<artnay> hey nisshh, I'm still compiling texlive *g* Installing 1526/2050
<nisshh> hehe, yea its takes a long, long time
<jaminday> ubuntujenkins: how about the ppa for ubuntu tweak
<jaminday> humphreybc: I just remembered you want a mugshot - got one coming your way in a sec
 * jaminday is about to sit down and watch 24 with the wife and a bowl of icecream
<godbyk> I'm off to bed.  Gonna read a bit, then sleep.
<godbyk> G'night, all!
<humphreybc> hey team, what's new?
<thorwil> humphreybc: hi! do you know from memory if David Nel is being credited in the manual, or should i check?
<humphreybc> He's not being credited at the moment
<humphreybc> Do you think he should be?
<thorwil> humphreybc: yes, for the idea to use icons on the cover. and the mouse pointer
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> we can add him in, no probs
<humphreybc> remind me around RC :P
 * humphreybc is excited to try quickshot, damnit
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we built a package of it last night
<humphreybc> ;D
<humphreybc> can you give me some more information on the live CD?
<humphreybc> how have you managed to fit all the translations + quickshot + Ubuntu?
<ubuntujenkins> easily :-P it might be bigger than a cd not sure on the final size
<donri> "no apps to shoot" ;)
<ubuntujenkins> I could remove the apps we don't need
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> that could work
<donri> "Hm, 'Upstart'? We don't document that. *Delete.*"
<ubuntujenkins> this is another ppa suggestion from popey https://launchpad.net/~cmsj/+archive/lifesaver
<artnay> I'm trying to compile the manual but it fails: po4a-translate --master-charset=utf8 -f latex -m main.tex -p po/fi.po -l ubuntu-manual-fi.tex -k 0  --- po4a::tex Can't read from file without having a filename at /usr/bin/po4a-translate line 229 --- make: *** [ubuntu-manual-fi.tex] Error 9
<artnay> any ideas?
<ubuntujenkins> donri: I will stick with removing games and simple stuff
<donri> Maybe if you have shots of menus and whatnot maybe lacking some applications will look wrong.
<ubuntujenkins> there are no shots of menus
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: just to check you are doing "make ubuntu-manual-fi.pdf" right?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: there are two shots of menus :)
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: yes.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: where has some one added more
<donri> Does po/fi.po exist?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: all that are missing are Chapter 1, page 22: Installation: The Ubuntu login window
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 1, page 23: Wubi in Windows 7
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 2, page 29: Ubuntu Help Center main window
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 2, page 40: Screenshot of the Assistive Technologies window.
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 3, page 69: Small view of the message list, showing column headers and a few email messages
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 3, page 78: visual example of adding an event in the day view by typing
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 3, page 94: Rhythmbox application with a CD inserted
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 5, page 122: Screenshot of PPA page on Launchpad.
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 8, page 140: Screenshot of a virtual terminal (i.e. ctrl-alt-F1)
<ubuntujenkins> Chapter 8, page 141: GRUB screen with Rescue Mode option highlighted
<artnay> donri: file fi.po --- fi.po: UTF-8 Unicode English text, with very long lines
<donri> in po/?
<ubuntujenkins> and they are all done except r 3, page 69: Small view of the message list, showing column headers and a fe and Chapter 8, page 140: Screenshot of a virtual terminal (i.e. ctrl-alt-F1) which we removed. ( humphreybc )
<artnay> donri: yes.
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: haev you run the install*.sh script? in pkgs folder?
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: yes I have
<ubuntujenkins> its not the po file as it works here it must be your text live
<ubuntujenkins> *tex
<artnay> Done! You should now be able to compile the Ubuntu manual! --- and after that I tried make
<ubuntujenkins> did you do the "create symlinks to standard directories" option.
<ubuntujenkins> in the texlive install
<artnay> yes I did
<artnay> as recommended
<ubuntujenkins> can you do normal make to crate the english one?
<ubuntujenkins> *create
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: Which screenshots? still confused
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: no, other languages fail as well (same error)
<humphreybc> I thought I added in some screenshots of some menus, in chapter 2
<ubuntujenkins> I may have commented those out then......
<ubuntujenkins> Commented out as we can't rely on the user taking the screenshot to have default programs in stalled luke jennings (ubuntujenkins)
<ubuntujenkins> i can add them back but i don't think they are that essential
<ubuntujenkins> gggrrrrrr I am being dragged away will be back, artnay I am not sure i will think about your problem
<humphreybc> okay
<ubuntujenkins> that way i can make the disk small
<artnay>  /usr/bin/po4a-translate line 228: # Prepare the document to be used as translator, but not parser   line 229: $doc->process('po_in_name'    => \@pos,
<artnay> well, I have to try it again when I get back home.
<ubuntujenkins> ok back
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: i can't think why it doesn't work
 * ubuntujenkins is building another live cd
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, regarding text bugs (most of which were my fault, since I forgot it was pango markup), no, I've adressed everything I saw in the normal use cases.
<Red_HamsterX> I haven't gone over the full script, but I didn't change anything outside of the normal path.
<Red_HamsterX> I've updated stuff in the EtherPad.
<ubuntujenkins> brilliant  i fixed a text wrap problem this morning i didn't want to mess up your editing
<Red_HamsterX> (All the old data was way outdated, so I scrapped it and started fresh)
<Red_HamsterX> I was already asleep.
<Red_HamsterX> The textwrap issue was probably my fault.
<Red_HamsterX> But I worked out a few flow issues and everything now seems to work like it's supposed to.
<ubuntujenkins> doesn't matter
<ubuntujenkins> good good
<Red_HamsterX> i.e., once I start populating the manifest with real data, we could actually start using this internally.
<Red_HamsterX> (It's not ready to give to others yet, though, as you're well aware)
<ubuntujenkins> woo I am trying to get the live cd back to a cd
<ubuntujenkins> not a dvd
<Red_HamsterX> LiveUSB!
<Red_HamsterX> >.>
<ubuntujenkins> well ben said that it should be a cd
<ubuntujenkins> I will make a ppa tonight
<ubuntujenkins> daily build ppa
<ubuntujenkins> before it it built you have to remove some bits of code
<Red_HamsterX> Which?
<Red_HamsterX> We may be able to remove them outright or make them conditional.
<ubuntujenkins> lines 206 -215 ....
<ubuntujenkins> and change 251-255
<ubuntujenkins> some how that live cd was bigger
<ubuntujenkins> some of 206-215 may change not remove
<Red_HamsterX> We could definitely sidestep that with a conditional.
<Red_HamsterX> Something like a 'DEVELOPMENT_MODE' flag.
<Red_HamsterX> Which could itself be set by the build script.
<ubuntujenkins> wow thats so cool I will work out which lines chnage to what as i wrote it it shall be easy.
<Red_HamsterX> I can implement it later, if you'd like.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll try to create the manifest entries today.
<Red_HamsterX> (With dummy text, to be updated as we do our test runs)
<ubuntujenkins> that would be great, i will look at which lines need to change and what to.
<Red_HamsterX> I should probably also add a function to let the user look at the latest pending screencap, so they can decide whether an updated one needs to be submitted.
<ubuntujenkins> cool i am off for a bit. will talk later
<Red_HamsterX> I'll start moving your sample screenshots to the server as I write entries.
<Red_HamsterX> Have fun with life. =P
<ubuntujenkins> and you bye all o/
<ubuntujenkins> afternoon all
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: http://paste.ubuntu.com/401958/  these are the line numbers and what they should change to
<ubuntujenkins> for release
<ubuntujenkins> also suggested in or first question was to remove the user when we remove the quickshot package
 * ubuntujenkins gggrrrr another icon changed in lucid
<Red_HamsterX> Do you have the package stuff set up to apply patches automatically?
<ubuntujenkins> asuming you are on about quickshot all i do quickly package
 * ubuntujenkins is thinking about packages on live cd
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm... I just thinking about a way to automate toggling the flag to avoid the possibility of us forgetting to set it.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm*
<ubuntujenkins> would it be work that we run a flag to run it under devolpment, and if we run quickly run it runs normally?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, yeah, that would work fine.
<Red_HamsterX> If it gets a --debug flag, run in debug mode...
<Red_HamsterX> debug/development
<ubuntujenkins> which would work like we run it now
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, it should probably have both flags.
<Red_HamsterX> 'Cause then I could suppress its prints.
<Red_HamsterX> Or I should integrate logging...
<ubuntujenkins> or you can add a flag to the quickshot.desktop.in file
<Red_HamsterX> I mean in the optparse rules.
<ubuntujenkins> i like the idea of a --devel flag
<Red_HamsterX> Same.
<Red_HamsterX> But I think we should have a separate --debug flag.
<ubuntujenkins> Same
<Red_HamsterX> I'll add logging to the system so we don't have to mess with conditionals for pintouts.
<ubuntujenkins> thank you I need to get around to understanding more of this when my exams are over
 * ubuntujenkins hopes this live cd is smalll enough
<ubuntujenkins> 717mb lets see whats missing
<ubuntujenkins> fail only got a command line :$
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, check the EtherPad. I made note of what I worked on last night.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to add --debug and --devel flags as soon as I have a break.
<titeuf_87> Ok.
<titeuf_87> I just pulled the latest version to fix those issues I still had last night.
<Red_HamsterX> (And make use of the logging module so we can print as much stuff as we want)
<titeuf_87> But the glade file looks wrong? I see the menu on the left, the text in the middle, image on the right as if the vbox is a hbox.
<titeuf_87> It works fine when I run quickshot though.
<ubuntujenkins> glade is anoying at times
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think I touched anything that would affect it.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't think you effected anything Red_HamsterX
<titeuf_87> You two both use Lucid right?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<Red_HamsterX> For testing, yes.
<ubuntujenkins> main a machine
<titeuf_87> I'm on Karmic, could be cause the glade file got changed with a newer version of glade/quickly?
<Red_HamsterX> It could be a Glade bug.
<ubuntujenkins> possibly i am on version 3.6.7
<titeuf_87> Ah same version for me.
<ubuntujenkins> which window looks strange
<titeuf_87> All of them.
<ubuntujenkins> only user setup, resolution change, no change and success look stange to me
<ubuntujenkins> shot check looks small
<titeuf_87> Aha, latest commit on quickshot removed orientation=vertical from a lot of vboxes in the glade file. Setting those back fix the glade issue.
<ubuntujenkins> my bad
<ubuntujenkins> all i did was change the text wrap of one box
<ubuntujenkins> I was really careful
<titeuf_87> of which one?
<titeuf_87> I'll get back an older revision so that it's fixed if that's the only change you did.
<ubuntujenkins> usersetup
<titeuf_87> ah set the maximum width there right?
<ubuntujenkins> to width in chariters -1
<ubuntujenkins> *characters
<Red_HamsterX> Oh. There's already a bit of logging stuff.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll just expand on that.
<titeuf_87> How do you grab a specific revision with bzr?
<ubuntujenkins>  bzr revert [FILE...]
<ubuntujenkins>               Revert files to a previous revision.
<ubuntujenkins> is what man says to revet a file
<ubuntujenkins> or bzr pull  bzr revert [FILE...]
<ubuntujenkins>               Revert files to a previous revision.
<titeuf_87> Aha, got it, thanks!
<ubuntujenkins> scrap that
<titeuf_87> bzr revert QuickshotWindow.ui -r-2 did the trick for me.
<Red_HamsterX> You can use diff with -r.
<ubuntujenkins> what else can i remove from a live cd?
<ubuntujenkins> openoffice.org-core openoffice* pitivi gedit compiz* gnome-utils transmission* gnome-games-common gbrainy openssh-client rsync bzr apport apport-gtk fakeroot gcalctool gnome-screensaver vino nano samba* fakeroot gstreamer* jockey* gparted is the list so far
<ubuntujenkins> how much of that gets installed back in when i install f-spot firefox totem rhythmbox evolution empathy brasero software-center gwibber light-themes tomboy  I am not 100% sure
<titeuf_87> The list of what to remove?
<ubuntujenkins> packages from the live cd, ben wants it as a cd not a dvd/usb
<ubuntujenkins> examples
<ubuntujenkins> that can go
<titeuf_87> I'm not sure what all needs to stay for screenshots, but I would guess samba, rsync, bzr, apport can go from that list.
<ubuntujenkins> thats the list of stuff already removed
<ubuntujenkins> the programs that are needed are listed in the next line
<titeuf_87> I'm not exactly sure what else can go, not really familiar with what's all installed on the livecd.
<titeuf_87> Do you miss a lot of space on it?
<ubuntujenkins> i need an extrat 100 -50 mb from it
<ubuntujenkins> just adding the language packs totals to about 880mb
<Red_HamsterX> Kill gnome themes?
<titeuf_87> That's a lot for a cd. Hmm, any of the help files?
<ubuntujenkins> we have a screenshot of the help home page and the theme page
<ubuntujenkins> help was my firts thought
<Red_HamsterX> :(
<ubuntujenkins> cups
<titeuf_87> Any other *-doc packages that could go?
<ubuntujenkins> I will have a look
<ubuntujenkins> xorg-docs-core can go
<ubuntujenkins> ubuntu docs is a whole 256mb on the hard disk
<ubuntujenkins> does anyone read it?
<titeuf_87> That's actually installed on the livecd too?
<Red_HamsterX> Nope.
<ubuntujenkins> the live cd un compressed is about 2.4 gb
<ubuntujenkins> lets see if i have agui this time
<ubuntujenkins> o we need to kill nm-applet before we login to the quickshot user and then start it in the quickshot user, as you can only haev one session of it running
<titeuf_87> Why not just use the default ubuntu user on the livecd?
<titeuf_87> That way we won't have to logout/login again from a livecd, which I assume would be slow.
<ubuntujenkins> we can do but that applies to when you are not in the live cd as well and a program change for the livecd also the desktop screenshots will have ubuntu as the user name. I wanted ben to let me change the user name to ubuntu rather than quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> the name thing is pick though
<ubuntujenkins> *picky
<ubuntujenkins> me being
<titeuf_87> If quickshot is running as the quickshot user, or the ubuntu one, then we can take screenshots, otherwise make the quickshot user?
<ubuntujenkins> true, I think we should make that change, how can we make quickshot launch automatically for the live cd? Can we remove the icons on the desktop?
<titeuf_87> same way we make quickshot launch automatically when we login as the quickshot user?
<titeuf_87> By adding it in the .profile in the home dir.
<ubuntujenkins> nope because you have to be able to write to the .profile file the ubuntu user is generated each boot
<titeuf_87> Ah. Worst case we can add a quickshot icon on the desktop or ask to launch quickshot from the applications menu.
<ubuntujenkins> it appears in the accessories menu
<titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, your first issue you noted about the quickshot dir belonging to the quickshot user: I don't think that'll be an issue once quickshot is released as it'll be installed from a deb?
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, you're right. And it's more of an annoyance than a problem.
<daker> hi @all
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> fine ?
<ubuntujenkins> yes I am good you?
<daker> very tired, I passed two exams
<ubuntujenkins> wwwoooooo well done
<ubuntujenkins> I have to reboot i will be back
<daker> back :)
<daker> and now I'm in holidays
<ubuntujenkins> indeed this live cd is anoying, i am as well, lots of work to do though
<ubuntujenkins> jaminday: are you editing?
<ubuntujenkins> is any one editing the manual now? I would like to add the last screenshots
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, do you know, offhand, what 'screenshotstore' is in Quickshot?
<Red_HamsterX> (What type of object)
<titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, it's a liststore
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: beat me had to check first
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> Makes sense.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to hide finalized items and make the first not-submitted one the default choice.
<Red_HamsterX> Just to streamline the process a bit.
<Red_HamsterX> When they're all accounted for, the user should probably be prompted. So they don't keep searching for something to do.
<titeuf_87> Take a look at screenshotinfo_update, this gets run every time the screenshot list window is shown.
<Red_HamsterX> Yep. That's where I'm working.
<titeuf_87> I did some changes in there just a little bit ago, you got those?
<titeuf_87> Changed so that it only retrieves the list once from the server.
<Red_HamsterX> Pulling now.
<Red_HamsterX> No, I don't seem to have your changes... though the file was updated.
<titeuf_87> Weird, it shows up in launchpad, change happened in revision 105.
<Red_HamsterX> I've got r106...
<Red_HamsterX> Doesn't look like the branches diverged...
<titeuf_87> Yeah, that was a commit right after that one where I fixed a silly mistake of mine.
<titeuf_87> line 331 is "if self.screeshots is None:" ?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh.
<Red_HamsterX> Duh.
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, it's there.
<titeuf_87> Hehe, ok :)
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks. :)
<titeuf_87> You're welcome!
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i need a rtl logo of UMP
<ubuntujenkins> whats rtl?
<daker> right to left
<ubuntujenkins> oo i see ask thorwil if he will make you one
<daker> thorwil, !!!
<thorwil> daker: how is the ump logo direction dependent?
<daker> what ?
<daker> so i need the logo at the right and the "Ubuntu Manual Project" at the left
<daker> the logo = the book
<thorwil> daker: ah. no translation of "Ubuntu Manual Project"?
<daker> no
<thorwil> daker: which size?
<daker> the same as http://ubuntu-manual.org/images/header.png
 * daker adds a rtl support for the design
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i made update in the pot file
<ubuntujenkins> err not sure exactly what that fiel does
<daker> if i upload it, the unused strings will disappear ?
<thorwil> daker: that header image should have been replaced. anyway, email address, please, so i can send you both
<ubuntujenkins> daker don't upload it with out checking with dutchie
<daker> adnane@ubuntu-manual.org | adnane002@gmail.com thorwil
<daker> ubuntujenkins, oki
<ubuntujenkins> I ahev 44mb to lose from the cd
<daker> the Hebrew language is rtl ? yes
<thorwil> daker: send
<ubuntujenkins> daker no its he
<ubuntujenkins> you can check here https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<ubuntujenkins> clikc on each one and the language code is on that page somewhere
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i know its he
<daker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-directional_text
<daker> Some writing systems of the world, notably the Arabic (including variants such as Nasta'liq), Persian and Hebrew scripts
<ubuntujenkins> o sorry that whole rtl got me again
<daker> are written form right to left
<daker> hhhh
<ubuntujenkins> I haev no clue without googleing
<daker> :)
<ubuntujenkins> trying to do to many things at once
<daker> thorwil, you send it where ?
<thorwil> daker: your manual address
<daker> oh spam
<daker> we need the logo with transparent background pls thorwil
<daker> i will be back
<godbyk> Okay, I'm alive again.  (Somewhat.)
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk do you have a strange sleeping pattern?
<thorwil> daker: ok, send, too
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yes, quite.  I'm in the US/Central time zone.
<godbyk> I went to sleep this morning at about 8 a.m. and woke up at about 3 p.m.
<ubuntujenkins> lol, any suggestions on what else to remove from the live cd need 44mb of space
<godbyk> Let to its own devices, my sleep time seems to keep moving later and later.
<godbyk> Hmm..
<godbyk> We can remove pretty much any of the apps we're *not* taking screenshots of, right?
<ubuntujenkins> done most of them openoffice
<ubuntujenkins> went and games
<godbyk> Crazy-ancient kernel modules that no one uses?
<godbyk> The printer database is pretty big, I expect.  Did you remove all the printing stuff?
<ubuntujenkins> yep printing is gone, kernel gets complex not sure thats worth the effort
<ubuntujenkins> unless the are apt-get
<godbyk> probably not separate packages
<ubuntujenkins> though as much
<godbyk> you could remove all the sound stuff, probably.
<ubuntujenkins> i did but installing rytham box brings it back
<godbyk> crap.
<godbyk> can you create a list of all the packages that are still there?
<godbyk> I can skim through it and see if something pops out.
<ubuntujenkins> i will do next build, that would be good thanks it is mid build at the moment
<ubuntujenkins> so glad i scripted this
<godbyk> gotcha.
<godbyk> I'm *always* glad after I've scripted something.
<godbyk> It seems to pay off every time.
<ubuntujenkins> I have done about 20 builds today
<godbyk> how long does it take to build?
<godbyk> and is the process of customizing a live cd pretty easy these days?
<ubuntujenkins> about 40 mins allowing for changes, its easy once you have a script uck is suppose to make it easy but it breaks for me. the wiki on it is good
<daker> thorwil, spam again :)
<thorwil> dang! :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: where would you like the list?
<godbyk> How big is it? You could just email it to me at kevin@ubuntu-manual.org if you like.
<godbyk> if you want to put it up so everyone can gawk, maybe drop it in an etherpad?
<ubuntujenkins> etherpad
<godbyk> fair enough.
<ubuntujenkins> every one suggest things have a look at and see what we can remove http://etherpad.com/hRCjx2Yu2G
<ubuntujenkins> irc so nearly got spamed like mad with over 1000 lines
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> anacron
<godbyk> app-install-data* ?
<godbyk> apparmor
<godbyk> aptdaemon
<godbyk> at
<godbyk> at-spi (and all the accessibility stuff)
<ubuntujenkins> accessibility has to stay
<godbyk> bc
<ubuntujenkins> screenshot
<godbyk> rats
<godbyk> 'cause that probably would've been a big one. :)
<godbyk> what did you use to generate the list?
<godbyk> can we have the list of packages and their sizes? sort by size and see if that's faster
<ubuntujenkins> dpkg -l >> packages i couldn't rember the other way
<daker> ubuntujenkins, "The requested version of the Ubuntu Manual is not yet released." is it correct ?
<ubuntujenkins> in what manner?
<daker> spelling
<ubuntujenkins> us english or uk english
<daker> in my english :)
<ubuntujenkins> its fine
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: try: dpkg-query -W -f='${Installed-Size}\t${Package}\n' | sort -nr
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will in a bit i started it going again
<godbyk> bah!
<godbyk> :)
<ubuntujenkins> it takes so long...
<ubuntujenkins> ;P
<godbyk> wow.. I have a package libopensg-doc that's 8 times larger than the kernel image.
<ubuntujenkins> whats that one do?
<godbyk> it's the documentation for the OpenSG library.
<ubuntujenkins> thats going as well then
<godbyk> OpenSG is a scenegraph library. (Used with graphics.)
<daker> dutchie, !!!
<godbyk> Well, it's not in your system.
<godbyk> It's only in my system.
<ubuntujenkins> o dam
<godbyk> Good try, though! :)
<ubuntujenkins> right got all of the screenshots in
<ubuntujenkins> build is finished and still 44mb to find
<godbyk> If you update the etherpad with the sorted list, we can see what else there is to remove.
<ubuntujenkins> I will start it off again and let you know when it is updated
<godbyk> Aw, man.. this book on amazon costs $20, but I need to spend $25 to get free shipping.  Oh, whatever shall I do?  <grin>
<godbyk> k
<ubuntujenkins> by more stuff
<ubuntujenkins> *buy
<godbyk> yeah, the super-saver shipping is just an excuse for me to buy more books.  twist my arm, why don't ya, amazon!
<godbyk> (they know I don't need much of an excuse!)
<daker> i will be back
<ubuntujenkins> its only Â£5 now for supersaver it use to be Â£15
<ubuntujenkins> I still have to pack my dad is picking me up from uni in less than 10 hours and i need sleep
 * ubuntujenkins the manual has all the english screenshots in it rev 602
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/602 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 602
<ubuntujenkins> thank you manualbot
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: awesome!
<ubuntujenkins> I am glad we are not doing all the rest manualy
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: is it possible to define what the file names are for each screenshot?
<Red_HamsterX> ?
<Red_HamsterX> What do you mean?
<ubuntujenkins> well if i am right the first screenshot of the install must always be called 01-live-cd-welcome.png otherwise laytex will not find it. am i right godbyk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: well, I just need to know the name of a screenshot that is a full-screen shot (e.g., the entire desktop).
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, yes, that's the purpose of the manifest dictionary.
<godbyk> that's what I key off of to get the scaling factor.
<godbyk> so you can name it whatever you like.
<godbyk> I just need to know what the name is in the end, so I can set the scaling factor.
<Red_HamsterX> "gedit-welcome" is just something I made up.
<godbyk> (alternatively, you can create a dummy graphic that has the same width as the widest screenshot and I can use that instead.)
<Red_HamsterX> A dummy graphic in the common branch would probably work for that.
<ubuntujenkins> 02-blank-desktop.png is the full desktop
<ubuntujenkins> but what i mean is we the french version of the screenshot must be called the same as the english one right?
<godbyk> the file names of the screenshots should be the same across all languages, too.
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i thought
<godbyk> so 02-blank-desktop.png should be the file name regardless of the language.
<Red_HamsterX> And that's how the system is set up to work.
<godbyk> cool
<Red_HamsterX> When the zipfile is generated, the language and timestamp stuffis stripped.
<ubuntujenkins> wwwooo
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to go test today's changes.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll start building the manifest based on your sample screencaps in a few hours.
<Red_HamsterX> It should be done sometime tomorrow, assuming I don't get distracted by taxes.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, wait. I forgot something.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks I am working on a daily ppa
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: etherpad is updates
<ubuntujenkins> *updated
<ubuntujenkins> http://etherpad.com/hRCjx2Yu2G
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: linux-firmware?
<ubuntujenkins> whats it do?
<godbyk> Firmware for Linux kernel drivers
<godbyk>  This package provides firmware used by Linux kernel drivers.
<godbyk> says it's optional
<ubuntujenkins> going
<godbyk> and we don't care about most devices that require firmware, I don't think.
<godbyk> do we really need libc6-dev?
<godbyk> we're not compiling or building anything are we?
<ubuntujenkins> nope
<godbyk> what's using perl and perl-modules?
<ubuntujenkins> I am adding these to the current build and will not set it going untilll it is done. not sure don't think so
<godbyk> do we mention tomboy in the manual?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<Red_HamsterX> Perl is a dependency of a lot ofstuff...
<Red_HamsterX> of stuff*
<godbyk> figures
<godbyk> anything we need?
<Red_HamsterX> Probably.
<ubuntujenkins> most of the basic programs
<ubuntujenkins>  f-spot firefox totem rhythmbox evolution empathy brasero software-center gwibber light-themes tomboy
<godbyk> strange.
<godbyk> we don't need make, do we?
<ubuntujenkins> no...
<godbyk> or manpages
<ubuntujenkins> nope
<Red_HamsterX> If we don't need make, we can scrap gcc, too, right?
<godbyk> probably
<Red_HamsterX> And things like m4.
<Red_HamsterX> If that's in there.
<godbyk> and autotools if they're there
<ubuntujenkins> what line are we reading?
<godbyk> looks like gcc is there
<godbyk> autotools aren't there
<ubuntujenkins> grep can go
<godbyk> we don't need vinagre
<godbyk> are you still using grep from an exec call?
<ubuntujenkins> don't think so
<ubuntujenkins> I removed any grep i put in
<godbyk> file-roller?
<godbyk> is seahorse required?
<godbyk> aptitude?
<ubuntujenkins> I know none of these at all, except aptitude
<godbyk> ubuntu-docs is huge!
<Red_HamsterX> file-roller is the archival utility.
<godbyk> seahorse is a gui for gpg
<ubuntujenkins> we have a screenshot for yelp
<Red_HamsterX> Isn't ubuntu-docs a requirement of ubuntu-desktop?
<ubuntujenkins> seahorse can go
<godbyk> did you remove all but the default theme?
<Red_HamsterX> We have screenshots of the themes window.
<godbyk> rats
<Red_HamsterX> That's what I thought, too.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, what about the sample data?
<godbyk> linux-libc-dev
<Red_HamsterX> The music and documents.
<godbyk> manpages-dev
<Red_HamsterX> Anything -dev can probably be scrapped.
<ubuntujenkins> I think i removed the samples
<godbyk> dnsutils
<godbyk> ubuntu-sounds
<Red_HamsterX> Doesn't resolver depend on dnsutils?
<godbyk> hplip-data is for printing. can we yank that?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, no.
<Red_HamsterX> It's removable.
<Red_HamsterX> (dnsutils, I mean)
<Red_HamsterX> Why don't I try ripping these out of my Lucid system to see?
<godbyk> dnsutils only has dig, nslookup, and nsupdate.
<godbyk> not used by anything except sysadmins, afaik.
<Red_HamsterX> dnsutils breaks gnome-nettool (which we probably aren't covering).
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, no normal user would need it.
<ubuntujenkins> we are covering nm-applet
<godbyk> oh, well, yank that, too, then. :)
<Red_HamsterX> nm != nettool
<godbyk> right.
<Red_HamsterX> nettool is the GUI for doing network testing.
<godbyk> nettool is a gui for ifconfig ping netstatus traceroute, etc.
<Red_HamsterX> nm is the thing Canonical is supposed to be getting back to me about.
<godbyk> what about it?
<ubuntujenkins> so do we need dnsutils?
 * Red_HamsterX rages at how long it takes for them to do anything.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: nope. kill dnsutils
<Red_HamsterX> dnsutils can be dropped.
<godbyk> and gnome-nettools
<Red_HamsterX> It's removed as a consequence.
<Red_HamsterX> Broken dependency.
<godbyk> gotcha
<godbyk> any idea how much more space we need to free up?
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see hplib-data on my Lucid box.
<godbyk> can we kill linux-headers-* ?
<godbyk> we're not compiling modules against the kernel.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think so.
<Red_HamsterX> We may need them for disper.
<ubuntujenkins> as much as possible, if someone adds a language....
<Red_HamsterX> Though I don';t actually know how disper works.
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe it's binary.
<ubuntujenkins> all i know is it works :-)
<Red_HamsterX> If it's source, we may need gcc after all.
<godbyk> looks like disper is python
<ubuntujenkins> I will add disper and check
<Red_HamsterX> I meant the modules it installs.
<Red_HamsterX> Actually... What does it do?
<godbyk> doesn't depend on the kernel headers
<Red_HamsterX> I know it's related to nvidia...
<godbyk> it changes the screen res.
<ubuntujenkins> wraps xrandr up for nvidia
<Red_HamsterX> That's it?
<Red_HamsterX> Ignore me, then.
<godbyk> let's see how close that gets us first.
<godbyk> then we can kill more stuff if we need to.
<ubuntujenkins> rigth well we don't want to remove something there
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/402071/
<godbyk> binary search.
<godbyk> split the list in half and try it
<godbyk> then keep splitting in half 'til you find the culprit
<Red_HamsterX> Binary searching's for chumps.
 * Red_HamsterX greedy algorithms.
<ubuntujenkins> its perl
<Red_HamsterX> That makes sense.
<Red_HamsterX> Given that everytthing requires perl.
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<ubuntujenkins> WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
<ubuntujenkins> This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
<ubuntujenkins>   grep
<ubuntujenkins> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 28 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
<ubuntujenkins> After this operation, 219MB disk space will be freed.
<ubuntujenkins> You are about to do something potentially harmful
<ubuntujenkins> To continue type in the phrase âYes, do as I say!â
<Red_HamsterX> Which essential packages?
<ubuntujenkins> grep is important not removing that
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think you'd save enough space by removing grep to make it worth typing the command.
<ubuntujenkins> i don't think it is
<godbyk> right
<ubuntujenkins> I am going to get packing to go home
<Red_HamsterX> I seem to have run into textwrap issues related to labels and the changes I was making. :(
<ubuntujenkins> :(
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, well.
<Red_HamsterX> Easy to fix.
<Red_HamsterX> Although...
<Red_HamsterX> Couldn't we just call .fit() on each window after populating it?
<ubuntujenkins> does that ake the window bigger?
<ubuntujenkins> *make
<Red_HamsterX> Probably, but it'll respect max size hints.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, well. Save it for later.
<Red_HamsterX> When we have a translated program to worry about and need to rework the windows anyway.
<Red_HamsterX> (And have a more modular design to make testing easier)
<ubuntujenkins> cool :-)
<ubuntujenkins> its all a bit of a rush togther for thsi release
<Red_HamsterX> As long as it works.
<ubuntujenkins> exactly
<godbyk> we'll clean up the design for the next release.
<ubuntujenkins> what version number should this release be?
<Red_HamsterX> Probaboy 0.1.0 or something.
<Red_HamsterX> Probably*
<ubuntujenkins> the most important thing :P
<Red_HamsterX> That usually means "functional, but without every feature we wanted. Also unsuitable for forking."
<ubuntujenkins> that sounds like a good number then
<ubuntujenkins> and the total of the cd is.............
<ubuntujenkins> 702mb
<Red_HamsterX> So close...
<ubuntujenkins> we lost 40mb so thats really good
<ubuntujenkins> just checking we still have a gui
<ubuntujenkins> it fits onto a cd-rw with 678.0kb of space
<ubuntujenkins> but we still haev to get quickshot and disper on it
<titeuf_87> Weren't we going to not use disper on the livecd and use vesa drivers on there?
<ubuntujenkins> good point disper is not needed in the live cd
<ubuntujenkins> we will need a massive DONT INSTALL FROM THIS CD sign next to the download button
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: I forget when its this late
<godbyk> can we just remove the installation stuff from the CD so it *can't* be installed?
<godbyk> that should save space, too
<ubuntujenkins> somebody.... no names wants install screenshots
<ubuntujenkins> same person who wanted the wubi one
<titeuf_87> could comment out the last part of the installation that actually does it maybe?
<Red_HamsterX> I'd imagine installing is an extensively documented process already...
<Red_HamsterX> Probably a bit too late in this document's livfecycle to bring that up, though.
<ubuntujenkins> as long as we see alll install windows the first slide of the install and the "restart now" window I don't mind
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, there's a new function that lets users pull the last-uploaded screenshot from the server into a pixbuf.
<Red_HamsterX> And your local caching thing seems to be working perfectly.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to nuke the data/ directory on my server so we can start fresh.
<titeuf_87> Right now I loaded it from a filename right?
<Red_HamsterX> No.
<Red_HamsterX> It's Pixbuf for the reference.
<ubuntujenkins> anyone a quickly expert who can help with ppas?
<Red_HamsterX> This is so they can see what was uploaded before.
<Red_HamsterX> In case they need to update a screenshot.
<titeuf_87> Ah ok.
<Red_HamsterX> It's a nice-to-have thing.
<ubuntujenkins> I can't find the quickshot devs group
<Red_HamsterX> Not something you have to implement if you don't have time.
<Red_HamsterX> It seems we're nearing the point at which we can actually do real testing, though. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Thank you very much for your work.
<Red_HamsterX> I hate writing GUIs.
<titeuf_87> I can add that in tomorrow, right now I'm getting a bit too tired.
<ubuntujenkins> thank you both for your work, i would have got no where
<Red_HamsterX> No hurry.
<Red_HamsterX> It's just a "This could be useful" thing.
<Red_HamsterX> Spawn a new window when a button is clicked.
<Red_HamsterX> It'll probably be unused by 99% of the users.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, and I peppered the thing with debug messages.
<Red_HamsterX> Use --debug to see them.
<Red_HamsterX> And use --devel if you need to install Quickshot.
<Red_HamsterX> (The absence of --devel implies that it was installed from a .deb, which ubuntujenkins is working on now)
<Red_HamsterX> Also, you're welcome, ubuntujenkins. I just wish I had more time for this cycle.
<titeuf_87> --devel pulls the latest version from bzr?
<Red_HamsterX> --devel makes things work they way they've been working 'til now.
<ubuntujenkins> so close I can get it to my personal ppa not the quickshot devs which is where i want it
<Red_HamsterX> LEt's see...
<ubuntujenkins> getting help from #ubuntu-app-devel
<Red_HamsterX> That'll probably be faster than me poking around the docs.
<ubuntujenkins> thats where i found titeuf_87 bet he regrets the day he helped me :-P
<titeuf_87> oh right
<titeuf_87> with that counter thing
<ubuntujenkins> yep indeed
<Red_HamsterX> humphreybc just wandered into #python and asked if anyone wanted to help with Ubuntu-Manual. He provided no other details.
<Red_HamsterX> Somehow, I ended up here.
<Red_HamsterX> Writing PHP.
<titeuf_87> that reminds me, I've reworked it in an acire snippet, just forgot to publish it yet
<ubuntujenkins> that took me a week
<ubuntujenkins> it took titeuf_87 20 minutes
<titeuf_87> Who started quickshot actually?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc
<Red_HamsterX> It started itself.
<ubuntujenkins> (ben)
<ubuntujenkins> his idea he did the first gui stuff then TommyBrunn started it and i started as a "tester only" where my words
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah... Things don't work out so well for testers.
<Red_HamsterX> Especially in my projects.
<daker> godbyk,
<ubuntujenkins> i am not much of coder but i can do some python now
<ubuntujenkins> the list on etherpad is up to date again http://etherpad.com/hRCjx2Yu2G
<Red_HamsterX> http://uguu.ca/uguusoft/ultra-tank-chan/ The other two who worked on it were just "testers" when I proposed the idea.
<Red_HamsterX> One of them learned XML analysis techniques from it.
<ubuntujenkins> nice wish i had more time all this uni stuff
<Red_HamsterX> That was my university pre-graduation-semester project.
<Red_HamsterX> I only worked on it in classes.
<Red_HamsterX> (Useless things, like Anthropology)
<titeuf_87> I'm glad to be done with all this :)
<ubuntujenkins> thats amazing, what did you study if you don't mind me asking
<Red_HamsterX> University?
<Red_HamsterX> Or Quickshot?
<titeuf_87> Well college for me.
<Red_HamsterX> AI major, linguistics minor.
<Red_HamsterX> Hence crazy things like http://uguu.ca/ar-sphaela/hymmnoserver/
<ubuntujenkins> cool, we don't do minors
<ubuntujenkins> I really want to remove the screenshot of help its so anoying
<Red_HamsterX> Because it costs so much apce and it doesn't really do anything?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<Red_HamsterX> Since you're reading a manual.
<Red_HamsterX> So you don't really need online help.
<ubuntujenkins> 269mb and the screenshot is awful
<ubuntujenkins> have you looked at help recently?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?lang=he
<ubuntujenkins> oo daker we can choose our languages
<Red_HamsterX> The last time I looked at help was when I was writing the section on installing and managing packages in 2005.
<daker> yes
<daker> there somothing missing
<daker> e
<daker> is
<daker> godbyk, !!!
<ubuntujenkins> why is the text at the bottom to the right? daker
<daker> where ?
<ubuntujenkins> on the link you sent me
 * Red_HamsterX updates his dev-blog for the first time in a month.
<daker> the string are not yet translated
<ubuntujenkins> but the top is left it looks odd
<daker> screenshot pls
<ubuntujenkins> o no sorry its right
<ubuntujenkins> just not so obvious
<ubuntujenkins> godbyks internet must have gone again
<Red_HamsterX> What's the URL for the translation status page?
<ubuntujenkins> for quickshot?
<Red_HamsterX> For the manual.
<ubuntujenkins> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks. :)
<ubuntujenkins> how can i get dpkg to list just the pakage name?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, weird... It just collapsed back to English/French, which is what I was trying to avoid.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh. View all. So I did find it initially.
<Red_HamsterX> dpkg or apt?
<ubuntujenkins> either just need to look for all file ending in doc
<ubuntujenkins> i don't want to have to type them manualy apt-get remove *doc doesn't work
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> Gimme a moment.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> apt-cache search "\-doc" | cut -d " " -f 1
<Red_HamsterX> for i in `apt-cache search "\-doc" | cut -d " " -f 1`; do echo $i; done
<Red_HamsterX> Or store the list in an array or something.
<Red_HamsterX> And concatenate it with spaces.
<Red_HamsterX> Depending on what you're working with.
<ubuntujenkins> That list is good thanks
<godbyk> apparently, the internet is still not fixed here. :-(
<Red_HamsterX> Apparently. :(
<ubuntujenkins> i guessed :(
<daker> godbyk,
<godbyk> Hey, daker. What's up?
<godbyk> (Talk fast!)  :)
<daker> some files hasn't been updated :s
<godbyk> daker: which ones and where?
<daker> css/styled.css
<daker> images/header.png
<godbyk> on test.ubuntu-manual.org or ubuntu-manual.org?
<daker> test.ubuntu-manual.org
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-27
<godbyk> can you point me at what changes you expected to see and don't?
<daker> the new css/styled.css & the new images/header.png
<godbyk> the server says it's running the latest revision
<daker> what :O
<godbyk> does refreshing the page help?
<godbyk> the header looks the same in my browser as it does in the repository, as far as I can see.
<daker> fu*** cache
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> also, depending on when you pushed the changes, the server only updates every half hour (at x:00 and x:30).
<godbyk> So when I looked, it had just ticked past the hour mark and may have updated.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> Do you have it set so the website can detect the browser language and use the appropriate translation?
<daker> yes
<godbyk> awesome
<daker> i have to upload the new pot file for the new strings
<godbyk> sure
<daker> i have to wait for dutchie
<godbyk> how do you generate a pot file from the php pages?
<daker> with my hands :)
<daker> first i used a php function
<humphreybc> hey daker
<daker> hi :)
<humphreybc> nice work on the site, looks a lot better with left aligned text :)
<humphreybc> and i noticed some of the text has already been translated!
<daker> we can't update the strings ?
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc we have a cd sized live disk with the help of godbyk and Red_HamsterX how ever there isn't enough space for quickshot yet
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> how big is quickshot?
<humphreybc> have you managed to fit all of the language packs on?
<humphreybc> daker, really? The spanish one and the czech one has some stuff translated already somehow
<ubuntujenkins> 83.7 kb i think we will get it on humphreybc but we could do with some more space if anyone adds a languge all the language packs so far are on there
<godbyk> we'll make it fit.
<humphreybc> good work team
<godbyk> we just have to cull some more packages.
<humphreybc> what'd you have to remove to make it fit?
<godbyk> the kernel
<godbyk> and the boot system.
<ubuntujenkins> well you only have a command line now
<humphreybc> =|
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> any thing that said ubuntu
<Red_HamsterX> debian/hurd!
<humphreybc> oaky
<Red_HamsterX> THE FUTURE IS NOW!
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> sounds like an awesome Live CD
<godbyk> it boots incredibly fast now, though. ;-)
<ubuntujenkins> openoffice.org-core openoffice* pitivi gedit compiz* gnome-utils transmission* gnome-games-common gbrainy openssh-client rsync bzr apport apport-gtk fakeroot gcalctool gnome-screensaver vino nano samba* fakeroot gstreamer* jockey* gparted example-content cups virt-manager qemu-kvm devhelp dhelp gimp-help gnome-help anacron app-install-data apparmor linux-firmware libc6-dev make manpages gcc m4 vinagre file-roller seaho
<ubuntujenkins> rse aptitude linux-libc-dev manpages-dev dnsutils ubuntu-sounds hplip-data linux-headers-* is the list so far
<humphreybc> you can remove all the audio stuff like pulse and alsa
<humphreybc> you removed open office?
<humphreybc> don't we have to screenshot that?
<ubuntujenkins> nope rhyhambox needs it
<ubuntujenkins> nope
<humphreybc> ah okay
<ubuntujenkins> not this release its a really short section
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what was the screenshot we wanted to kill?
<ubuntujenkins> plus openoffice is huuuuuugggggggeeee
<ubuntujenkins> in built help
<godbyk> ah, yes.
<ubuntujenkins> also humphreybc the screenshots in english are complete
<humphreybc> yeah i saw that :D
<humphreybc> rockin!
<godbyk> ubuntu-docs is 25 MB.
<humphreybc> so the live CD still works with all that stuff gone?
<humphreybc> can we remove the memory test
<godbyk> should work well enough for our needs.
<humphreybc> and what happens when there are UI updates?
<ubuntujenkins> works in virtual box
<ubuntujenkins> I update the image
<humphreybc> neat
<ubuntujenkins> all scripted
<humphreybc> awesome!
<daker> humphreybc, so ?
 * godbyk is hungry -- waiting for his food to be delivered.
<ubuntujenkins> sorry daker sotle your thunder
<ubuntujenkins> *stole
 * daker is gonna be crasy with the UMP Team
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I think you have to already be crazy to be a member of the UMP team. :)
<daker> hhh
<humphreybc> sorry, daker what did you want to know?
<daker> i have changed all strings with new strings from the mockups
<daker> if upload the pot file will the old strings disappear ?
<godbyk> probably
<daker> humphreybc, check the text
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?notyet
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?unavailable
<godbyk> I would recommend adding some text on those two pages that helps the user find what they're looking for.
<godbyk> the notyet page could link to the latest released manual, for instance.
<daker> i m not good in english
<godbyk> and the unavailable page could suggest the most common pages that people would want (home, download, ..?)
<godbyk> daker: you don't have to write it yourself. I'm just tossing out ideas.
<godbyk> If no one else it up for it, I'll write some text a bit later for those pages.
<humphreybc> yeah that's cool, good idea godbyk
<humphreybc> you could have "The requested version of the Ubuntu Manual is not yet released."
<humphreybc> then on a new line underneath:
<humphreybc> "However, you can see the current editions available for download here."
<humphreybc> and the "here" is a hyperlink to the downloads page
<godbyk> I would link directly to it.
<godbyk> Be specific, not generic.
<daker> humphreybc, godbyk http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?lang=ar
<humphreybc> hey  that is cool
<godbyk> Say: "The latest version of the manual is <i>Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04</i>." etc.
<godbyk> daker: that is so awesome! great job! :)
<humphreybc> that looks wicked
<daker> :)
<humphreybc> the website is looking fantastic daker
<humphreybc> everyone is going to be blown away
<godbyk> definitely
<humphreybc> no wonder everyone assumes we're "official"
<humphreybc> we're doing such an awesome job it'd be hard to believe we're all just volunteers :D
<daker> yeah
<daker> humphreybc, i need the images for the homepage(slideshow)
<humphreybc> godbyk: It's really awesome how ubuntujenkins has gone through and put the english shots in, now we can work on the captions
<humphreybc> I think we're *almost* on schedule
<ubuntujenkins> please do mine are rubbish
<humphreybc> daker: sure, i'll sort that out today :)
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, I'll add the captions to my to-do list.
<humphreybc> daker, what does the slideshow look like?
<godbyk> make sure they're up to speed
<daker> fade effect
<humphreybc> could you chuck in some placeholder images just so I can see it in action, so I know what I need to make?
<humphreybc> godbyk: yeah we have 4 days till the writing freeze to make sure there are zero errors in the manual, otherwise I'm 20 euro poorer
<godbyk> humphreybc: can I start panicking now?
<humphreybc> godbyk: sure
<humphreybc> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
<godbyk> I have to spend a good part of tomorrow helping a friend move, too. :-/
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> priorities kevin, priorities
<humphreybc> :P
<Red_HamsterX> Spend the part while your connection's down.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> so Red_HamsterX, how stable is quickshot?
 * humphreybc really cannot wait to try it out
<ubuntujenkins> well i am working on a ppa
<godbyk> lol
 * ubuntujenkins agrees with dutchie ppas are hard
<Red_HamsterX> You can try it now, if you want. It's just not polished and it's lacking real data.
<humphreybc> just from the branch?
<Red_HamsterX> We've got everything working.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<ubuntujenkins> i will send you a package
<humphreybc> okay neat
<Red_HamsterX> Or that.
<humphreybc> amd64?
<ubuntujenkins> its and all packages
<ubuntujenkins> *package
<humphreybc> also, where are we going to host the ISO?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, actually, that's a good point...
<ubuntujenkins> well the server but (ubuntu-manual) but we may need another one depending on downloads
<Red_HamsterX> Is it amd64?
<Red_HamsterX> If so, making it i386 might reduce the filesize.
<ubuntujenkins> no the iso is I386
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: okay you'll have to make sure godbyk has the ISO by wednesday so he can host it
<ubuntujenkins> right message recived
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: does quiclky run work for you we have a merge at some point to day
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine my end related just got a new branch
<ubuntujenkins> panik over
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> its 12.54 am here
<daker> humphreybc, will be up in 6min as godbyk sad
<Red_HamsterX> Panic? What?
<humphreybc> daker: awesome, so you added in some temporary pictures to the slideshow
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: just me getting stressed due to over tiredness
<humphreybc> :)
<ubuntujenkins> i want this ppa working
<humphreybc> will the PPA have the ISO in it, or the package?
<ubuntujenkins> package there will be a daily and a release ppa
<humphreybc> awesome
<ubuntujenkins> so i can put it on my lucid box without needing a whole cd
<ubuntujenkins> e-mail sent humphreybc
<humphreybc> sweet
<humphreybc> here goes!
<ubuntujenkins> it appears under aplications >> accsories
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> you should put a higher resolution icon in the menu :P
<ubuntujenkins> you made it :P
<humphreybc> lol
 * humphreybc is switching user
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: don't say anything I want to hear it all I need to reboot
<godbyk> we need photos of grandmothers and children using our manual. :)
<humphreybc> that's wicked!
<humphreybc> godbyk: absolutely. anyone have an istock account? :P
<godbyk> that's cheating!
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/ humphreybc
<humphreybc> that's awesome!
 * humphreybc is overwhelmed by the awesomeness in this team
<Red_HamsterX> "Features" is covered by the image.
<Red_HamsterX> (Possibly because I'm using small fonts)
<humphreybc> daker: maybe change the timing so that each image is displayed a bit longer?
<daker> oki
<daker> 5sec ?
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: looks fine to me in Chrome and Firefox, I'm using size 9
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: back
<humphreybc> daker, what's it set to now?
<humphreybc> okay so quickshot stuff
<humphreybc> it didn't set my screen res correctly, but I set it using monitors fine
<Red_HamsterX> Dunno, then.
<humphreybc> In the last screen, where you can choose a shot and see descriptions
<ubuntujenkins> whats your graphics card again?
<humphreybc> I think the "Cancel" button needs to be "Close"
<Red_HamsterX> I've made a note of that.
<ubuntujenkins> I think i can solve the grahpics problem
<Red_HamsterX> (EtherPad)
<ubuntujenkins> the button can be changes
<ubuntujenkins> *changed
<humphreybc> because after I had taken some screenshots, and uploaded them (they were all pending approval) I had to think for a second whether I hit Next to upload them or hit Cancel - but if I hit cancel, my work might be lost?
<humphreybc> Maybe it'd be better to change it to "Finish"
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe we need to change the status text, too.
<humphreybc> the Help > About window can be changed to reflect the real developers names so you guys get credit - myself and tommy haven't done a lot
<Red_HamsterX> "uploaded; pending aproval"?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: ATI HD2600
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: yeah that will work better
<humphreybc> where did the screenshots go that I took?
<Red_HamsterX> My server.
<humphreybc> neat
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/data/
<humphreybc> I love it how gedit automatically opens with some sample text
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: open driver?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> are the gedit ones just test shots?
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<humphreybc> cool
<Red_HamsterX> Those arew just dummy entries to test things.
<humphreybc> daker what size do the images have to be on the main page?
<humphreybc> sweet
<Red_HamsterX> I'll add real entries tonight and tomorrow.
<ubuntujenkins> can you post lshw -C display for me please, this is where I need bug reports of ones that dont'work ( humphreybc )
<humphreybc> it's looking really awesome though, i'm really impressed. considering the short amount of time you guys had!
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: sure
<ubuntujenkins> the more bugs on non reolution change we get the better
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf did a lot for making the GUI simple and functional.
<ubuntujenkins> *resolution
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/402132/
<daker> humphreybc, width="310" height="296"
<humphreybc> daker: cool
<humphreybc> daker: I'll make some images for you now
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: are you editing the bin/quickshot file now?
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not doing anything at this moment.
<humphreybc> daker: i'll email them to you in an hour or so
<Red_HamsterX> (I've got a DHCP server issue to resolve)
<ubuntujenkins> cool just making a change
<daker> humphreybc, that's fine
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: another thing, is it possible to disable certain things in the quickshot user?
<Red_HamsterX> I won't be touching the code 'til at least twenty-four hours from now.
<humphreybc> for example, if we can disable docky from starting
<Red_HamsterX> Everything I'll edit will be server-side.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks Red_HamsterX
<humphreybc> (I have docky installed and it starts by default)
<Red_HamsterX> docky?
<ubuntujenkins> erm I will have a think
<humphreybc> k
<ubuntujenkins> thats easier said than done
<ubuntujenkins> awn doesn't start for me
<Red_HamsterX> Wouldn't the Quickshot user be completely free from such things?
<ubuntujenkins> aparently not
 * godbyk is still waiting for his food to arrive. :-(
<Red_HamsterX> That seems to suggest that there's something wrong with the other package.
<Red_HamsterX> :(
<Red_HamsterX> Go stab people.
<Red_HamsterX> Stabbing makes time pass quickly
<Red_HamsterX> And they may drop candy.
<godbyk> heh.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: it should work now, if you remove the old package and add the one in your e-mail inbox and give it a wirl
<humphreybc> awesome
<humphreybc> ill try it in a sec
<humphreybc> should i remove the quickshot user?
<ubuntujenkins> erm not any more did it auto launch last time?
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> quickshot started before the gnome session did
<ubuntujenkins> just before if you had one that had bzr related stuff in
<ubuntujenkins> swwwweeeeeeeeeeettttttttttt
<humphreybc> you *could* add a slight delay to quickshot loading
<humphreybc> but it's not that important
<ubuntujenkins> added to the list
<jaminday> ubuntujenkins: hey - no i'm not editing (he replies 5 hrs later!!!)
<ubuntujenkins> np problem jaminday I like to check before doing changes in lots of files
<ubuntujenkins> all of the screenshots are now in
<jaminday> great
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: yep, it works! you're awesome1
<jaminday> humphreybc: you get my mugshot?
<humphreybc> yup sure did
<humphreybc> looking good dude haha
<ubuntujenkins> not really me that stuffs easy, any promotion after its relese can you ask for people to check for autores changes
<humphreybc> sure
<ubuntujenkins> ta
<humphreybc> it might be worth fine tuning some of the wording in the quickshot text
<ubuntujenkins> will do :-) any suggestions are welcome
<jaminday> humphreybc: hehe
<Red_HamsterX> Rewording will be part of polishing.
<humphreybc> UMP is just getting more and more awesome every day
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: sweet :D
 * humphreybc is listening to the Kraken from Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> MAking it delay its startup should e easy, too.
<Red_HamsterX> We could just put a 'sleep 2' or somethin in the rc file.
<humphreybc> yeah, maybe just a 5 or 10 second delay
<ubuntujenkins> I know
<ubuntujenkins> I can do that tomorrow
<humphreybc> :D
<Red_HamsterX> Just put it in the pad and one of us'll do it.
<humphreybc> where's the pad?
<Red_HamsterX> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F
<humphreybc> thanks
<nvsbl> question: will physical copies of the manual be available for purchase at any time in the future?
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> THAT pad
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> nvsbl: yup they will be :)
<humphreybc> we're going to publish it through lulu.com
<jaminday> On a side note - is anyone using banshee from the unstable ppa?
<nvsbl> thats awesome, thanks
 * ubuntujenkins is going to go all linux outlaws and use #blamepo pey
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> anyone know how i sign a file with my pgp key?
<ubuntujenkins> a pen will not work :P
<daker> $ gpg --clearsign file  ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: that deoesn't work i am afraid
<daker> http://www.sonatype.com/people/2010/01/how-to-generate-pgp-signatures-with-maven/
<daker> $ gpg -ab file
<Red_HamsterX> Are you trying to encrypt the file or just prove it's yours?
<ubuntujenkins> I think prove its mine
<Red_HamsterX> Clearsign's what I'd use, then.
<Red_HamsterX> Unless it's binary.
<ubuntujenkins> are sorry daker i made a typo
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<daker> don't worry
<daker> godbyk, can u write the text for the previous pages ?
<godbyk> daker: which pages?
<daker> <daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?notyet
<daker> <daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?unavailable
<godbyk> ah, sure.
<godbyk> give me just a moment to finish eating and I'll write the text.
 * daker think that launchpad is bugging
<humphreybc> daker, i'm just going to email you the new images for the slideshow now
<humphreybc> wait
<humphreybc> i can put it on my server :)
<godbyk> Okay, finished with supper.
<daker> sure
<godbyk> Lemme write daker's text.
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/images.tar.gz
<humphreybc> that should work
<godbyk> daker: on the ?notyet page, do we know which version they requested?
<daker> we can
<humphreybc> daker, i had to make the images slightly higher, i hope that doesn't screw anything up
<daker> nice
<daker> i remove this http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/images/gettingstartedguide.png
<ubuntujenkins> gggrrr i give up night all o/
<daker> good night
<godbyk> hey, daker. what's your email address?
<daker> adnane@ubuntu-manual.org
<godbyk> daker: I emailed you some text for those pages.
<godbyk> Let me know if you have any questions.
<daker> great
<daker> another thing
<humphreybc> :D
<daker> i need description for the pages : home,downloads,getinve,contrib
<humphreybc> did you put the new images on daker?
<daker> humphreybc,  i remove this http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/images/gettingstartedguide.png
<daker> ?
<humphreybc> daker, yes
<daker> oki
<godbyk> daker: as in <meta> descriptions?
<daker> yes
<daker> if we put the same description, it will be considered as duplicated content
<jaminday> humphreybc: when is the writing freeze exactly - in UTC time - so i know how many nights i've got left to work on it.
<humphreybc> jaminday: dunno, probably 0000 UTC on the 31st
<humphreybc> so midnight on the 31st
<jaminday> ok
<humphreybc> which will mean you have most of April 1st to work on it :P
<humphreybc> well, a few hours
<jaminday> yeah the more time the better
<humphreybc> the writing freeze won't hit me till thursday at about 1pm
<jaminday> ok so that means it'll be about 11am thurs for me
<humphreybc> yeah
<jaminday> cool thanks
<godbyk> ?home: "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 is a free, comprehensive beginner's guide for the Ubuntu operating system."
<godbyk> ?downloads: "Download a PDF of Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04."
<godbyk> ?getinvolved: "Find out how you can help contribute to the Ubuntu Manual Project."
<godbyk> ?contrib: "The Ubuntu Manual team consists of a large number of volunteers: authors, translators, editors, designers, and developers."
<humphreybc> godbyk: yeah that's good
<daker> great
<humphreybc> also, daker, those images are in order 1, 2, 3 4
<daker> yeap
<humphreybc> so if you can put them in order in the slideshow (i know it'll loop) that'd be great
<humphreybc> it's sort of like a small walkthrough of the book
<daker> yes
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> you're doing an awesome job daker!
<daker> thanks
<daker> the title "Getting Started with Ubuntu XX.YY" will be translate in the manual ?
<jaminday> hey great progress bar on the site
<daker> :)
<godbyk> daker: yes, it will be translated.
<daker> ok
<jaminday> Well i gotta go play a wedding!
<jaminday> bye all
<daker> bye
<humphreybc> hey daker, are you adding those new images to the site? I'm excited to see what they look like xD
<daker> just minute i am adding godbyk's text
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> See, humphreybc.  This is how the world works.  Given a choice between working on my stuff or working on your stuff, people will always choose my stuff first.  :-P
<humphreybc> lol
<daker> hhh
<humphreybc> godbyk: isn't everyone working on my stuff? wasn't this whole thing my idea? :P
<daker> humphreybc's stuff are already done
<humphreybc> ha!
<daker> fu*** we missed the xx:30
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> daker, hmm?
<daker> we have to wait 30 min to see the changes
<humphreybc> ohh right
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I'll do a manual pull for you guys
<humphreybc> well, just push your stuff now and i'll update in 20 minutes
<humphreybc> maybe godbyk should change it to every 15 mins :P
<daker> yeah
<godbyk> okay, I pulled.
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> oh wow
<humphreybc> that's lovely
<daker> nice
<humphreybc> good work daker!
<humphreybc> it's perfect, nice and subtle
<humphreybc> lovely fade
<daker> great
 * humphreybc can't stop staring at it
 * daker will hibernate in 10minutes
<humphreybc> i'll have to make a new image for the downloads page
<humphreybc> i'll do that tomorrow
<daker> yeah
<godbyk> if you're going to use a cover image, use thorwil's, not the one in the pdf.
<godbyk> (I haven't finished fixing up the pdf's cover page yet)
<humphreybc> what's the difference?
<daker> humphreybc, What time is it now?
<humphreybc> daker, it's 4:45pm my time
<humphreybc> on saturday
<nisshh> what about saturday?
<godbyk> lots of little things.
<humphreybc> oh, just telling daker my time
<godbyk> font sizes, positions of graphics.
<godbyk> etc., etc.
<humphreybc> nisshh: check out this, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> godbyk: okay i'll change it tomorrow
<daker> 3:45am saturday
<godbyk> anyone know what the best netbook out there is these days? my brother's asking.
<humphreybc> godbyk: the Dell mini 9 is pretty awesome
<daker> humphreybc, try to switch between languages
<godbyk> humphreybc: he just sent me a link to a $350 ASUS Eee PC Seashell 1005PE-PU17-BU 10.1-Inch Blue Netbook (Up to 14 Hours of Battery Life)
<humphreybc> daker, the slideshow is out of place on the arabic languag
<humphreybc> godbyk: I don't really know that much about netbooks
<nisshh> hehe, i like the "Lead TeXnician"
<godbyk> me neither.
<daker> humphreybc, hhh
<nisshh> godbyk whats his budget?
 * humphreybc still can't get over how awesome this project is becoming
<godbyk> nisshh: I'm not sure.
<godbyk> nisshh: You can just toss out some options and I'll forward them along.
<godbyk> I'm not sure what his criteria is either.
<nisshh> ok, i suppose he wants a large battery life though>
<godbyk> brb. I'll ask him.
<nisshh> godbyk: http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/collection/1658/top_10_netbooks.html
<nisshh> also my brother has a nice one from early last year
<nisshh> although it has no ssd and only 2GB ram
<humphreybc> daker: the website works in the android browser too!
<daker> GREATTTTT
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org
 * daker will hibernate in 1minutes
<nisshh> so the "test" website is going up on release day?
<humphreybc> daker: works on mac in safari too
<nisshh> humphreybc: is there a meeting this weekend?
<humphreybc> nisshh: RC
<humphreybc> and no, no meeting
<nisshh> oh release candidate?
<humphreybc> actually
<humphreybc> i'm not sure
<humphreybc> probably put it up like a day before the launch
<nisshh> ok yea
<humphreybc> it'll be super awesome
<daker> godbyk, give it a pull
<nisshh> tell you what, the glossary is a bit of work
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> we might have to cut the glossary
<nisshh> adding bits of code all over the place
<nisshh> yea, does it depend what i get done by wednesday
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> aim for about a dozen entries
<nisshh> ok thats doable
<humphreybc> if it's any less than that, we'll have to cut it
<humphreybc> obviously if you reach 12 keep going though
<humphreybc> we want as many as possible
<nisshh> yes
<humphreybc> use common sense as to which ones are the most important
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> ill make a big push this arvo
<humphreybc> have you got anyone in your family who's totally hopeless with computers?
<humphreybc> like mum/sister/grandparents?
<nisshh> yes, everyone except me and my bro
<humphreybc> haha okay
<daker> no
<nisshh> ill ask them
<humphreybc> if you're in doubt, ask them if they know what a word means
<daker> friends
<humphreybc> if they don't, it'll have to go in the glossary
<humphreybc> daker: hmm?
<nisshh> yeo
<nisshh> i got my bro to put crunchbang on hs netnook actually
<humphreybc> lol nice
<nisshh> netbook
<nisshh> he likes it
 * daker will hibernate in 50secs
<humphreybc> lol see ya daker
<nisshh> daker: you said that 10 minutes ago lol
<daker> i am at 0.1%
<daker> of energy
<nisshh> :D
<nisshh> laptop or netbook?
<daker> humphreybc, the bugg is fixed , just for the next refresh
<daker> wait
<humphreybc> daker: awesome :D
<godbyk> back now.
<daker> pls tell dutchie to upload verify the /daker-test/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot
<daker> file
<nisshh> humphreybc: did you get my mugshot the other day?
<humphreybc> nisshh: sure did
<humphreybc> daker: kk
<godbyk> daker, humphreybc: I pulled the new site
<godbyk> nisshh: thanks! I'll forward that to my brother.
<nisshh> godbyk: no probs
<daker> humphreybc, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?lang=ar
<nisshh> godbyk: tell your bro that googles his best mate
<godbyk> It is hard to write good glossary entries.  What're the main difficulties you've been having, nisshh?
<daker> see you @all
<nisshh> it just takes ages
<nisshh> since i have to add little snippets everywhere
<humphreybc> see ya daker! thanks!
 * daker is shutting down
<daker> no problemo
<godbyk> see ya, daker.
<nisshh> cya daker
<godbyk> just looking at the arabic version of our site.
<godbyk> you know what would be neat? to have the slideshow display pages from that translation of the manual.
<godbyk> so the arabic page shows the arabic manual in the slideshow.
<nisshh> thats an awesome idea
<humphreybc> godbyk: as if i didn't make it hard enough
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> i think we can get away with english screenshots at that size
<humphreybc> i think it's more than enough to have an arabic site :D
<humphreybc> unless you can think of a really easy way to capture some shots of pages of the translated manuals, resize them and then have them display in a slideshow on the correct translated site
<humphreybc> after all this is done, when someone asks me how we did all this
<godbyk> Except the headings are readable, and the RTL languages will look a lot different. :)
<humphreybc> my answer is going to be "Well, we just thought of some cool stuff to do and did it"
<godbyk> Sure.  convert is awesome.
<godbyk> imagemagick
<humphreybc> godbyk: we could do an arabic version just for the RTL language things
<godbyk> I'll write a script to do it sometime.
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> okay if you can do it easily and have enough time
<humphreybc> with the drop shadows too?
<humphreybc> (it has to look pretty)
<humphreybc> right, gotta go to work
<humphreybc> later
<nisshh> godbyk: do you still want the glossary entries to be linked in the first instance of each chapter?
<godbyk> It's not a hard rule, just link them where you think it's appropriate.
<nisshh> right, currently iv only linked them from the first instance in the entire manual
<nisshh> not sure if its enough or now
<nisshh> not
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, any chance you're still awake?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Yep.
<Red_HamsterX> Yay.
<Red_HamsterX> Question about screencap names for chapter 3.
<Red_HamsterX> The ones ubuntujenkins uploaded read "rythambox"
<Red_HamsterX> Should I fi the typo or would it break things?
<Red_HamsterX> fix*
<godbyk> lemme look
<godbyk> it won't hurt anything outright, but we should spell it correctly to make it easier for others.
<Red_HamsterX> Afected filenames: 03-rythambox-cd.png -> 03-rhythmbox-cd.png; 03-rythambox-podcast.png -> 03-rhythmbox-podcast.png
<Red_HamsterX> Affected*
<godbyk> you'll need to change the lines in the .tex file, too.
<Red_HamsterX> Which?
<godbyk> default-apps/listening-to-audio-and-music.tex
<Red_HamsterX> 'Kay.
<Red_HamsterX> This won't affect translations, right?
<godbyk> nope
<godbyk> well, fixing the spelling error in the caption will.
<godbyk> but it needs to be done
<Red_HamsterX> Done.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks. :)
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<Red_HamsterX> Eight entries left before I can sleep~
<ubuntujenkins> hello Red_HamsterX nice work I better ad the screenshots to the english bzr branch
<Red_HamsterX> I'd wait.
<Red_HamsterX> We should try to use Quickshot to collect as many of those as possible.
<Red_HamsterX> So we'll know what needs to be fixed.
<ubuntujenkins> ok I think i may have forgoteten to put some in the quickshot branch, you can do those later
<ubuntujenkins> when you next have time
<ubuntujenkins> I am still waiting for news on what screenshots are wanted for ubuntu one, the section is yet to be finished
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: which chapter is the ubuntuone section in?
<ubuntujenkins> 3 nisshh I keep asking mattgriffin each time he comes on
<nisshh> has he not said he will do it yet?
<nisshh> its a must, if we dont get it finished it will be cut for final
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, no. More screencaps. D:
<ubuntujenkins> Well done Red_HamsterX
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: he has said he is doing it  and i keep casing him
<ubuntujenkins> he said he would do it since very near the start of th release cycle
<ubuntujenkins> are weel it goes on
<nisshh> hmmmm, i dont think he will end up getting to it
<nisshh> i mean cmon, start of cycle was 2 months ago
<nisshh> is anyone available to do it
<Red_HamsterX> So why are we teaching users about PPAs?
<Red_HamsterX> I didn't get a response last time I asked.
<nisshh> because they are an integral part of ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: he did rythambox the other day
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: i think its in the advanced section, it is a good way to get other programs easily
<Red_HamsterX> rhythmbox*
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: you need to tell him that he must get all his writing in quick if he wants it to be included
<Red_HamsterX> (I already fixed the typos in the filenames and tex files)
<ubuntujenkins> I just knoticed thanks Red_HamsterX
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I do keep telling him, i told him to get it done by 21st at the start of last week
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ok, well if he hasnt written it by monday we either do it for him or drop it for next release
<nisshh> we really cant afford to have half finished stuff
<ubuntujenkins> mm we will have to see what he comes up with
<nisshh> yes, its up to matt now
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: benjamin needs to know about this
<nisshh> if you speak to him first can you let him know?
<ubuntujenkins> he already knows i think
<nisshh> ok, thats good
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, my server's updated with all the new stuff. It's scripted to update every hour.
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot should now see a pretty full list of screencap data.
<Red_HamsterX> Please feel free to edit server/screencaps/config/dictionary to fill in holes in descriptions/steps or to fix any typos I may have missed in my need-sleep-ness.
 * Red_HamsterX sleeps.
<ubuntujenkins> thansk night Red_HamsterX
<Red_HamsterX> Welcome and g'night~
<nisshh> hehe night
<ubuntujenkins> I am off my dad is here o/
<daker> back
<humphreybc> hi
<daker> :)
<humphreybc> what's up?
<daker> i need the image for the downloads page :)
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> okay i'll get onto that
<humphreybc> what size?
<daker> 310*310
<humphreybc> thorwil: pin
<humphreybc> ping*
<thorwil> humphreybc: pon(g)
<humphreybc> where can I find an image of the final title page?
<humphreybc> (not from the PDF in the branch)
<humphreybc> I looked on your blog, but the icon colours are brown instead of light orange
<humphreybc> have you got the final title page lying around somewhere as a png?
<thorwil> humphreybc: there's only the svg of that so far
<humphreybc> could you export a png and email me it/stick it in the branch please?
<thorwil> humphreybc: letter or a4, what resolution/size?
<humphreybc> size could be < 400px
<humphreybc> and A4 please
<thorwil> k
<humphreybc> thanks thorwil
<thorwil> humphreybc: send
 * thorwil -> lunch
<daker> humphreybc,  What languages are rtl?
<daker> i know the arabic, the hebrew
<daker> wich are rtl
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> ask google ;)
<daker> he tells me arabic, the hebrew
<humphreybc> daker, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/downloads.png
<humphreybc> maybe godbyk will know
<humphreybc> is that okay daker?
<humphreybc> also, i think the logo/header on the site is a bit too big
<daker> good
<humphreybc> could you reduce it by about 20% ?
<daker> the height
<daker> thorwil, made some changes on the logo yesterday
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> it's a bit big
<daker> that's the header(100px) not the logo image
<daker> i'll changed to 80px
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> also should the word "Language" above the language selector be a wee bit smaller?
<daker> it will be
<humphreybc> cool :)
<daker> could you pls check the spelling text :)
<humphreybc> throughout all the website?
<daker> http://127.0.0.1/daker-test/?getinvolved
<daker> sorry
<daker> test.ubuntu-manual.org/?getinvolved
<humphreybc> and consistent documentation for the Ubuntu operating system..
<humphreybc> you don't need the two dots
<humphreybc> just one
<humphreybc> "Â the Linux barrier to entry fo new user"
<humphreybc> "fo" should be "for"
<humphreybc> "user" should be "users"
<humphreybc> "We are always looking for talented people to work with, and due to the size of the project, we"
<humphreybc> the second comma isn't needed
<humphreybc> so it should be "We are always looking for talented people to work with, and due to the size of the project we"
<humphreybc> "Head to our wiki page" I think this should be "Head over to our wiki page"
<humphreybc> "on how to get started:" should be "on how to get involved:"
<daker> fine
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> Could you please add the following to the end of the third paragraph: "We have a strong emphasis on just "getting things done" and therefore we have a fast-paced development environment filled with lots of unique ideas."
<humphreybc> So it should be:
<humphreybc> "It didnât take long until the project amassed hundreds of contributors, and what Benjamin originally envisioned became a reality as the Ubuntu Manual Project blossomed into an ambitious and successful project. We have a strong emphasis on just "getting things done" and therefore we have a fast-paced development environment filled with lots of unique ideas."
<daker> oki :)
<humphreybc> actually, make that "filled with lots of exciting new ideas." :D
<humphreybc> so add in the excitin
<humphreybc> exciting*
<humphreybc> sorry!
<humphreybc> also, daker, on the first page you've spelt license with a 'c' - "licence." I think it should be "license."
<humphreybc> so, "It is written under an open source license and is free for you to download, read, modify and share."
<humphreybc> "everday tasks" should be "everyday tasks" << there's a "y" missing in everyday
 * daker is very bad in english :s
<humphreybc> no you're doing a great job :D
<humphreybc> Some of these are my fault anyway
<humphreybc> I might change this: "Progressive learning curveÂ - start with the basics, and learn as you progress through each chapter"
<humphreybc> to this:
<humphreybc> "Progressive learning curveÂ - start with the basics, and learn as you work through each chapter"
<humphreybc> so remove "progress" and add "work" instead
<daker> "getting things done" should be with the " "
<humphreybc> yep
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> "CC-BY-SA licensingÂ - modify, reproduce and share as much as you like" can become:
<humphreybc> "CC-BY-SA licensingÂ - download, modify, reproduce and share as much as you like"
<humphreybc> so add in the word "download"
<humphreybc> at some point we'll have to add in the fact it'll be available to purchase physically from lulu.com
<humphreybc> but we'll come to that when we set that up
<humphreybc> change this: "No costÂ - our documents are all written by volunteers and there is no charge to use them"
<humphreybc> to this:
<humphreybc> "No costÂ - our documents are all written by Ubuntu community members and there is no charge to use them"
<humphreybc> in the footer, you don't need a dash between "Attribution" and "Share"
<humphreybc> so at the moment it is: Creative Commons AttributionâShare-Alike
<humphreybc> but it should become: Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike
<humphreybc> I think that's all the errors I can find!
<humphreybc> good work daker, really it's looking awesome
 * humphreybc just realised this project is truly an international effort
<humphreybc> godbyk lives in the USA, dutchie lives in the UK, thorwil lives in Germany, Jamin lives in western Australia, I live in New Zealand
<humphreybc> daker: where do you live?
<thorwil> daker: what did you do exactly?
<daker> humphreybc, i live in Morocco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco
<humphreybc> Morocco! cool!
<daker> thorwil, 21 & 5month, i'm student at the university
<daker> years
<thorwil> daker: heh, i meant with the logo/type
<daker> thorwil, everything fine
<humphreybc> hey daker, is it just me, or is the text inside the buttons slightly higher than centered?
<daker> where ?
<humphreybc> on the main page... is the "Download Now" text inside the orange button in the center, horizontally?
<humphreybc> it might just be me
<daker> i'll look
 * daker is listening  to Outlandish - Feels Like Saving The World
<daker> titeuf_87, you're french ?
<titeuf_87> I'm Belgian, I can speak French but I'm horrible at writing it.
<daker> oki
<daker> dutchie, !!!
<daker> godbyk, we need a google-site-verification
<daker> hi ubuntujenkins
<daker> ubuntujenkins, godbyk what's the percentage of UMP progress ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I am at home with anyoing interent joining godbyk ;P as for progress % ask ben. It depends if you count translations
<daker> kk
<godbyk-android> Daker: humphreybc usually makes up and sets that number
<godbyk-android> There's no real imperial measurement that we're using
<godbyk-android> I just got back from helping my friend move
<godbyk-android> Going to catch a little more sleep now
<godbyk-android> since he woke me up after only 3.5 hours
<ubuntujenkins> nn godbyk-android
<daker> oki godbyk-android
<ubuntujenkins> w=evening
<daker> heklp!!!
<daker> anyone here ?
<dutchie> o/
<semioticrobotic> hi all
<dutchie> daker: what's up?
<daker> one min
<daker> dutchie i have ubuntu installed with wubi
<daker> so i have made a big update > 200Mo
<daker> when rebooting it gives me the sh:grub> terminal
<dutchie> er, not sure
<daker> so i have made a mistake when i execute the commands in the manual
<daker> sudo grub-install --root-directory=/media/root /dev/sda and so
<dutchie> from a live cd?
<daker> yes
<dutchie> could you pastebin your /etc/default/grub.conf?
<daker> i search in the net and i found that its a bugg and i have to replace the old wubildr file in c:\
<daker> i want to remove the grub menu
<dutchie> ah, if it's wubi specific, I have no idea
<daker> :s
<dutchie> try asking in #ubuntu or in your loco channel
<semioticrobotic> number of unfixed bugs in the manual is dwindling!
<ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: thats good news
<semioticrobotic> indeed it is
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, titeuf_87, http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/ now shows a (still-primitive) progress display for each language.
<Red_HamsterX> (When languages are partially done, you can see what's missing, and when they're totally done, you'll be given links to the zipfile facilities)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: thats really good nice to get an idea of how it is all going
<titeuf_87> Oh sweet, nice work.
<Red_HamsterX> It's better than the <select/> I had before.
<Red_HamsterX> It should appear on the other server in a few minutes.
<ubuntujenkins> and I have got the live cd down to 692 mb
<Red_HamsterX> Yay!
<ubuntujenkins> space for another language or two
<ubuntujenkins> I wouldn't like to installl using this disk there is so much random sutff missing
<Red_HamsterX> Sounds fun.
<daker> back
<ubuntujenkins> now for this ppa
<daker> dutchie: could you pls check & upload the new pot file /daker-test/includes/languages/ubu....pot
<dutchie> one moment
<dutchie> to be honest, checking is probably superfluous as LP will do that for us
<dutchie> wasn't there something about splitting out the website stuff into a separate brancH/
<dutchie> wow, completely missed the shift key there
<daker> ?
<dutchie> weren't you going to move all of the website code out of the main ubuntu-manual branch and into a separate ubuntu-manual-website one
<daker> well i don't know if, i have to talk to humphreybc about it
<Red_HamsterX> It might make more sense to wait 'til the launch, to avoid confusing people.
<dutchie> I will definitely have to go to bed before humphreybc shows up
<dutchie> daker: that seems to have worked reasonably well actually
<daker> worked what ?
<dutchie> daker: the .pot file
<daker> did you upload it ?
<dutchie> no, launchpad auto-imports then from the branch
<daker> oki :)
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<daker> still 3days of work
<godbyk> I'm alive again.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-28
<Red_HamsterX> Bleh... I dunno what, if anything, I can do for the current PyWeek.
<Red_HamsterX> Ooh. Quickshot is working well.
<Red_HamsterX> And Alstroemeria CDs make for great programming music.
<Red_HamsterX> Looks like Metacity returns decoration information slightly differently under Lucid...
<Red_HamsterX> All Firefox-related screencaps successfully taken and uploaded using Quickshot.
<Red_HamsterX> (A number of small bugs were worked out in the process, hence the time taken)
<godbyk> The Internet here is still being really flaky, but I'm around if around if anyone needs me.
<humphreybc> what's poppin' ya'll
<godbyk> humphreybc: 'bout time you showed up! :)
<humphreybc> haha, i've been enjoying my lazy sunda
<humphreybc> sunday*
<humphreybc> then I had an interesting experience
<godbyk> oh yeah?
<humphreybc> I tried to enable some transparency for pidgin
<godbyk> uh oh
<humphreybc> just for the buddy list, by using compiz
<humphreybc> I selected the pidgin buddy list window
<humphreybc> compiz turned my entire computer transparent
<humphreybc> panels, all windows, my docks disappeared
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> awesome
<humphreybc> so I went into a virtual terminal
<humphreybc> removed the compiz config files in my home directory and restarted X
<humphreybc> that didn't work
<humphreybc> restarted computer, that didn't work
<humphreybc> so I figured I should run a metacity --replace command
<humphreybc> tried that in a virtual terminal and got an error saying that X wasn't loaded (because I was in a virtual terminal)
<humphreybc> so, I blindly opened up a terminal by using my keyboard shortcut and typed in the command slowly, even though i couldn't see it... it worked
<humphreybc> disabled the opacity plugin for compiz and restarted X, success
<humphreybc> it was pretty funny though because I had all my windows open, and could grab them/resize them and stuff but they were invisible
<godbyk> nice
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> so what's new?
<godbyk> I'm currently spell-checking our manual.
<humphreybc> oh fun
<godbyk> Loads.
<humphreybc> using aspell?
<humphreybc> or by hand/eye?
<godbyk> It strikes me that we need to establish a really comprehensive style guide for the manual.
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> that was the plan
<godbyk> It's probably too late to create one for this edition, but we should definitely add that to our TODO list for the next edition.
<humphreybc> never eventuated
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> did you see some of the stuff that Martin Lukes did?
<godbyk> Also, you're totally gonna lose that bet. :)
<godbyk> Which stuff?
<humphreybc> I better not
<humphreybc> check the mailing list
<humphreybc> unless he just sent it to me
<humphreybc> nah the list
<humphreybc> http://etherpad.com/Dws558WVvc
<godbyk> oh, the manual for manual thing?
<humphreybc> he made this
<humphreybc> yea
<godbyk> yeah, I saw that.
<humphreybc> by trawling through our ML messages :D
<godbyk> most of that will be incorporated into the style guide.
<humphreybc> yea
<godbyk> latex-handout.pdf was supposed to be the start of a style guide, but I didn't spend the time needed to really get it fleshed out completely.
<humphreybc> it's a good list of stuff though
<humphreybc> that's okay
<humphreybc> we have other things to worry about, as you said it's too late but next release we'll have 6 months
<humphreybc> instead of 3 :)
<godbyk> can we just pretend this initial release doesn't count as much? :-)
<godbyk> (so many little bugs!)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> well I anticipate we'll get a shitload of interest after this release
<godbyk> a lot of the bugs I'm seeing are more style issues that I didn't bring up before.
<Red_HamsterX> Learning experience. =P
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> hey, we can't be perfect, we've done bloody well
<humphreybc> i'm sure everyone appreciates that
<humphreybc> so don't fret too much
<godbyk> I know, I know.  Still, it bugs me when I see typos or errors in my books. :)
<humphreybc> what we've got now is already beyond any expectation anyone ever had
<humphreybc> hehe
<humphreybc> your books huh?
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> as in 'books I own'.
<humphreybc> rigt
<humphreybc> sure sure :P
<godbyk> although it applies doubly to books I've been involved with producing. :)
<humphreybc> fair enough
<humphreybc> i'm the same
<humphreybc> we have a lot of work to do, that's for sure
<humphreybc> but that's good, it'll keep us busy and keep people interested and willing to help
<godbyk> also, I think I found a typo/error in the CC license (the original on the website).
<humphreybc> unlike the *cough* docs team *cough*
<humphreybc> O rly?
<godbyk> I asked about it in #cc, but haven't had a response yet.
<godbyk> yeah,
<godbyk> in section 1(b), they refer to section 1(f) but I think they meant to refer to section 1(h).
<humphreybc> ok
<godbyk> exciting, no?
<humphreybc> indeed
<humphreybc> hey cool people are starting to post irrelevant ads and links on our facebook page
<humphreybc> which means we're becoming famous
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> how's our bug spreadsheet doing?
<godbyk> do we still have a ton left to fix?
<humphreybc> "Abdel Hakim Hakim Mouhoubi" has spammed pretty much all of our wall posts with this link: "www.livequaran.org"
<humphreybc> i'll give you one guess
<humphreybc> i'm going to kick him off our page
<humphreybc> i'm never going to find him in our fan list
<humphreybc> we have 750 now
<humphreybc> oh no wait
<humphreybc> he posted directly on our oage
<humphreybc> page*
<humphreybc> so i can "report and block this person from this page and remove everything he has posted"
<humphreybc> thanks facebook!
<humphreybc> sorry Abdel Hakim Hakim Mouhoubi, but we're not that interested in your live quaran :)
<godbyk> nice
<godbyk> facebook is actually helpful for once
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> it's actually a really crap website
<humphreybc> they duplicate so much stuff
<humphreybc> but just like windows, people only use it because everyone else does :D
<humphreybc> ... at least it's better than bebo or mysapce, though
<humphreybc> myspace*
<humphreybc> myspace is awful
<godbyk> so true
<godbyk> there are TONS of comments in these .tex files.
<godbyk> we should really remove the ones that don't matter anymore.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> that's what i've been doing
<godbyk> means less text to get in the way when I'm spell-checking and reading.
<humphreybc> is automount installed/enabled in ubuntu server edition by default?
<godbyk> no clue
<humphreybc> nvm found it
<godbyk> Is 'gedit' the proper capitalization?
<humphreybc> yes
<godbyk> k
<humphreybc> i'm downloading the Kubuntu 10.04 beta1
<humphreybc> gonna try it out in a vbox/live CD
<humphreybc> never really looked into it too much
<humphreybc> i tried 9.04 and found it too be really cluttered and inconsistent
<humphreybc> plus i don't really like all my apps beginning with k
<humphreybc> it looks silly and amateur
<godbyk> g is much better than k. :)
<humphreybc> well not even that, i just wish app developers would come up with their own names
<humphreybc> the menus can look hideous at times
<godbyk> I think I'm going to start making notes for our style guide as I fix things.
<godbyk> easier than thinking of them later.
<godbyk> I'm also writing a python script right now to help me track down some frequent bugs.
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> haha, the many uses of python
<godbyk> we also need to get the glossary and index up to speed.
<godbyk> so much work to do!
<humphreybc> i know!
<humphreybc> i'm going to go through this evening and make all the captions nice
<godbyk> I haven't even looked at daker's test site to proofread that yet.
<godbyk> New rule: If you see a spot in the manual that's obvious unfinished, or needs attention, put a \todo{Note goes here} there.  That way it'll show up in the PDF and we'll see it.
<godbyk> I'm trying to make a list of the formatting bugs, too. I'll deal with those after the writing freeze.
<godbyk> Though basically anything we touch in the .tex file will impact the translators, won't it?
<godbyk> might have to branch or something. :-/
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> u,
<humphreybc> um*
<humphreybc> the comments should be excluded?
<humphreybc> oh wait
<humphreybc> AFTER writing freeze
<godbyk> the comments are, yet.
<humphreybc> um
<godbyk> wait, what?
<godbyk> you're confusing me. start over. :)
<humphreybc> yeah i'm going to be really strict on the writing freeze
<humphreybc> so you may have to branch
<humphreybc> i've been proof reading dakers test site
<humphreybc> we went through it together yesterday
<humphreybc> he's still got a couple of mistakes
<humphreybc> but it's getting there
<godbyk> did you fix the missing apostrophe in 'beginner's guide'?
<humphreybc> maybe
<humphreybc> no
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> so who else from UMP will be attending UDS?
<humphreybc> I presume thorwil will be going
<godbyk> no clue.
<godbyk> have you heard if you're going yet or not?
<humphreybc> nope, haven't heard yet
<humphreybc> i guess it'll be announced sometime this week or next
<humphreybc> jono and crew will have a lot of applications to go through
<humphreybc> i really hope i go
<humphreybc> you'll have to participate remotely
<humphreybc> especially if we have a meeting with the docs/learning team etc
<godbyk> definitely.
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> we'll try to get a good UMP representation in those meetings
<nisshh> hey
<nisshh> time to rock
<humphreybc> hey nisshh
<nisshh> hey
<nisshh> i have 21 glossary entries lines up
<nisshh> hope to get them all done today
<godbyk> nisshh: heh.. I'm adding more glossary TODOs as we speak. :)
<godbyk> at some point, we need to look at indexing, too.
<nisshh> godbyk: hehe, you always crash the party!
<godbyk> :)
<nisshh> indexing?
<humphreybc> the index
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> 3 days till writing freeze... fun times
<nisshh> right, what exactly goes in the index
<humphreybc> key words used throughout the manual
<humphreybc> with page numbers that are linked
<humphreybc> check it out in the book
<humphreybc> it's on the last page
<nisshh> kk
<humphreybc> you must have come across indexes before in other book
<humphreybc> books*
<nisshh> oh, who made the makefile awesome with colors and stuff
<godbyk> that was me.
<nisshh> looks wicked and is much easier to use
<nisshh> nice work godbyk
<godbyk> thanks.
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> I need to reclassify some of the warnings as errors, though, so they stand out more.
<humphreybc> i wondered why it became pretty
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> much easier to tell if make was successful now
<godbyk> Well, if it's not successful, it'll stop the presses and tell you about it.
<nisshh> yes
<nisshh> just noticed apt-get is there twice in the index
<godbyk> nisshh: I only see it once (as a main entry).
<godbyk> All of the applications and command-line apps are listed under then own name and under the heading 'applications' or 'command-line applications' right now.
<nisshh> yea, theres one under vlc and one under command line
<jaminday> humphreybc: ping
<humphreybc> jaminday: pong
<nisshh> hehe, still find that funny
<jaminday> humphreybc: hehe hey there - i'm just on my way out but thought i'd catch you real quick
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> fire away
<jaminday> how are you going with editing your chapterrs - have any spare time?
<jaminday> *chapters
<humphreybc> i'm getting there
<humphreybc> haven't had a huge amount of time these last couple of days
<humphreybc> what's up?
<jaminday> yeah me too. I've just been doing bits when i can.
<jaminday> Chapter 3 still has a ton of editing needing to be done though
<jaminday> and not sure i'll have time to look at it properly
<nisshh> godbyk: we talked about this the other day but i forgot which way around to put the \gls command if it interfered with another
<humphreybc> jaminday: it's on my list
<nisshh> like: \smallcaps{GNOME}
<godbyk> nisshh: The \gls command goes on the inside.
<humphreybc> i'll try to get it done by tuesday
<jaminday> humphreybc: ok cool. You want me to focus mainly on the chapters before this then?
<godbyk> To \emph{\gls{word}}
<nisshh> godbyk: thanks
<godbyk> np
<humphreybc> i think focus needs to be on 5+
<jaminday> chapter 5?
<humphreybc> chapter 5 and up
<jaminday> ah ok
<humphreybc> so 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9
<jaminday> yeah i haven't looked at them for ages
<humphreybc> 5 is quite important as it deals with the software center
<humphreybc> so make that your priority
<godbyk> I think the later chapters have probably had less focus by our OMG proofreaders, too.
<humphreybc> plus godbyk was reading through it the other day and said it needs a lot of work
<godbyk> So they likely need more attention.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> good point
<jaminday> ok. There is still some work needing to be written on partitioning in chapter 1, but otherwise pro, 1 and 2 are nearing completion
<humphreybc> yeah i'll get there with the partitioning
<humphreybc> actually
<humphreybc> i might need some help with that
<humphreybc> i can't remember much about the partitioning big
<humphreybc> bit*
<jaminday> Yeah - the manual partitioning stuff will be hard to make newbie friendly
<humphreybc> yeah
<jaminday> ok - well anyway i have to head out
<humphreybc> okay
<jaminday> i'm about to push a few minor changes, will this stuff anyone up?
<humphreybc> enjoy your evening, we'll be slaving away here
<humphreybc> nah it shouldn't
<jaminday> humphreybc: hehe
<nisshh> might stuff me up
<jaminday> nisshh:  ah really
<humphreybc> nisshh: you push first
<nisshh> yea im doing glassry work
<nisshh> ok hang on a sec
<jaminday> ok
<jaminday> maybe i'll wait till i get back?
<nisshh> no 1 sec
<godbyk> jaminday: I've got a ton of minor changes, so it won't matter much to me. :)
<jaminday> ok
<jaminday> godbyk: glad to hear it ;-)
<godbyk> so many changes!
<godbyk> So far:
<godbyk>  Help/godbyk/latex-handout/latex-handout.tex |   15 +++++
<godbyk>  around-desktop/around-desktop.tex           |    8 +-
<godbyk>  backmatter/license-en.tex                   |   50 +++++++++---------
<godbyk>  command-line/command-line.tex               |   76 ++++++++++++++--------------
<godbyk>  default-apps/browsingtheweb.tex             |   24 ++++----
<godbyk>  default-apps/default-apps.tex               |    2
<godbyk>  default-apps/gettingonline.tex              |    4 -
<godbyk>  main.tex                                    |    1
<godbyk>  prefs-hardware/other.tex                    |    2
<godbyk>  ubuntu-manual.cls                           |    9 ++-
<godbyk>  10 files changed, 107 insertions(+), 84 deletions(-)
<nisshh> jaminday: ok you can push now
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> maybe you should pull first though
<jaminday> wow
<jaminday> nisshh:
<jaminday> hehe
<humphreybc> good times had by all
<jaminday> nisshh: ok
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> humphreybc: 5 glossary entries finished
<humphreybc> in the future, if anyones' wife/gf is having a baby it is now mandatory to scream "PULL BEFORE YOU PUSH" when they're giving birth
<nisshh> hehe, ok
<humphreybc> nisshh: schwing!
<jaminday> humphreybc: ha classic
<jaminday> I love that 'no conflicts generated' window. Makes me happy.
<nisshh> that should be an official bzr joke
<nisshh> jaminday: so push to lp went ok?
<humphreybc> someone broke the make though
<jaminday> hehe i tried to push without committing, so no
<nisshh> lol
<jaminday> ah there we go
<jaminday> ok gotta run!
<jaminday> by all...
<humphreybc> nisshh: did you compile before pushing?
<nisshh> cya
<humphreybc> "is called \smallcaps{\gls{GNOME}}" is throwing an error
<humphreybc> chow jamin
<nisshh> i ran make clean before pushing
<nisshh> hmmmm gimme a sec
<humphreybc> you should probably run make before pushing, then make clean
<humphreybc> to ensure it actually compiles
<godbyk> lol
<nisshh> hehe, i had it compiled just before i pushed
<nisshh> just obviously worked ok for me
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> godbyk: why is it throwing that error?
<godbyk> Hmm.. not sure.
<nisshh> i seem to have done the syntax right
<godbyk> what's the error?
<nisshh> where i put \gls{GNOME}
<nisshh> inside smallcaps{}
<nisshh> it saysl.40 ...ronments is called \smallcaps{\gls{GNOME}} , which is used by default...
<nisshh> do you want it removed for now?
<nisshh> godbyk:?
<godbyk> Sure, go ahead and remove it for now.
<nisshh> ok
<godbyk> File a bug or remind me to look at it after a bit.
<godbyk> (Or just stick a \todo{Kevin, look at the GNOME glossary entry link.} in places of the \gls command._
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> testing it now
<humphreybc> cool
<nisshh> it is kind of inconsistent where someone has smallcapsed all the DE names in around-desktop, but nowhere else in the chapter
<godbyk> wow.. everyone's joining the party now!
<nisshh> or whole manua;
<godbyk> nisshh: yeah, I've been fixing them when I see them.
<nisshh> godbyk: which way is prefered?
<humphreybc> GNOME is all caps
<humphreybc> KDE is all caps
<humphreybc> so XFCE
<humphreybc> actually all of them are all caps
<nisshh> sorry you misunderstood
<nisshh> i mean someone has done \smallcaps{GNOME} in around desktop
<humphreybc> oh right
<nisshh> but nowhere else in the manual at all
<nisshh> its extremely inconsistent
<godbyk> where is my python guru?
<humphreybc> godbyk, what do you want to know?
<godbyk> I want to apply a regular expression to a line of text and if it matches, print something out.
<godbyk> easy enough to do.
<godbyk> figured I'd ask instead of looking it up. :)
<humphreybc> what do you mean apply a regular expression?
<godbyk> (if anyone's around who knows right off.)
<godbyk> I want to see it there are any matches in the line of text.
<humphreybc> ah right
<humphreybc> i'm not sure what the function name is
<nisshh> ok, if everyone pulls now they have the fix
<godbyk> I think re.search will do it.
<godbyk> nisshh: thanks
<nisshh> np
<humphreybc> sweet, so just assign it to something and then run the function on the string in an if statement
<nisshh> im trying to write a description for MeMenu, except i havent used it much, can someone with more experience give me a hand?
<nisshh> nevermind, its done
<nisshh> hey ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> hey nisshh
<nisshh> everything is coming along nicely
<ubuntujenkins> thats great, quickshot is doing we to
<ubuntujenkins> *well
<nisshh> good
<nisshh> humphreybc: finished descrptions for another 10 or so glossary entries
<humphreybc> nisshh: fantasticx
<humphreybc> without the x
<ubuntujenkins_> humphreybc: I am planning to do some quickshot wikii stuff today, have you done any? I don't want to double up on your work
<ubuntujenkins_> also the quickshot cd is down to 692 mb
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: quickshot cd?
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: there is a cut down version of lucid on a cd with the quickshot program so that people can take screenshots with out installing lucid
<nisshh> ah, cool
<ubuntujenkins> and it has all of the lanuage packs that the manual is in on it
<ubuntujenkins> I will be back just swapping to the wifi
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> sounds really cool
<nisshh> also just pushed more work to lp
<ubuntujenkins_> kk
<ubuntujenkins_> humphreybc: why did you remove the rhythambox screenshots but not the \screenshot command?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: they were spelt wrong so i just adjusted the command and the filename
<ubuntujenkins> I don't think you did bzr add then
<humphreybc> oh maybe not
<ubuntujenkins> also have you done any quickshot wiki stuff?
<humphreybc> just pushing now
<humphreybc> nope, I haven't updated ubuntu-manual/quickshot in some time
<humphreybc> you may want to update it
<ubuntujenkins> thanks I can never spell rhythambox
<ubuntujenkins> I am updating the wiki to day in prep for the release
<humphreybc> cool
<ubuntujenkins> didn't want to double up on any work you had done
<humphreybc> nah that's cool, thanks for asking
<humphreybc> go for it though
<ubuntujenkins> who made the wiki buttons?
<humphreybc> I made the original ones and then daker made some new ones
<ubuntujenkins> cool I will see if i need any
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<godbyk> I pushed a bunch of my edits.
<godbyk> more to come.
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: hey, have you got a quickshot live CD image for me to test?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I have an image but its not got quickshot on it thats a 2 min job, but how do i get it to you?
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> is it 700mb?
<ubuntujenkins> 692mb
<humphreybc> http://www.mediafire.com/ ?
<humphreybc> or ubuntu one account?
<ubuntujenkins> ubuntu one/dropbox have file size limits
<humphreybc> dropbox?
<humphreybc> oh really
<humphreybc> that sucks
<ubuntujenkins> I will try and sort it today, just working on a ppa I will drop you an e-mail so that you have it when you get up
<ubuntujenkins> the image that is
<ubuntujenkins> ok humphreybc media fire is no good 200mb file size limit
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> yeah PPA should work
<ubuntujenkins> I am doing a ppa of quickshot not the cd
<humphreybc> how are we going to share the CD?
<ubuntujenkins> on the ubuntu manaul server
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> but you'll have to get it to kevin
<ubuntujenkins> I have to ftp to kevins pc
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> that should work
<godbyk> I hate resolving conflicts. :-(
<godbyk> I've got a file that I marked resolved, but it just merged stuff together and it's a mess.
<ubuntujenkins> don't worry i hate ppa's
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> aren't PPAs meant to be easy?
<godbyk> downloading a fresh branch
<godbyk> it's huge!
<godbyk> 55 MB and only halfway done.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: they will be easy with quickly 0.4 you currently choose which ppa it goes in
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> godbyk, yea
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> the manual branch is huge
<godbyk> 110 MB and still going
<humphreybc> once we take all the website stuff out that might help
<godbyk> 145 MB total.
<godbyk> website dir is 34 MB
<godbyk> po dir is 24 MB
<godbyk> screenshots is 11 MB
<humphreybc> wow
<humphreybc> that's impressive
<humphreybc> i'm impressed
<humphreybc> are you?
<ubuntujenkins> imagine once all the screenshots are in it
<humphreybc> =|
<humphreybc> won't that be fun
<humphreybc> 11mb for each language
<ubuntujenkins> 550 mb
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> fun
<humphreybc> so our final branch will be a cool 600mb
 * nisshh doesnt want to know what the branch size is after the screenshots are all added
<ubuntujenkins> we don't ahev to merge in untill the last minute there is a screenshot main
<humphreybc> me
<humphreybc> meh*
 * humphreybc hates to think how long it would take to download the branch then at 2KB/s
<humphreybc> (which is how fast bzr goes for me most of the time)
<nisshh> hehe, thats what bzr does sometimes
<nisshh> but mostly for me it does over 50kb/s
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> i feel like i'm missing out lol
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> your using bzr 2.1.0 yea?
<humphreybc> i think so
<nisshh> thats the default in lucid
<humphreybc> 2.1.1 even
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> i think it's my ISP
<humphreybc> they just don't like bzr
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> who are you with?
<humphreybc> telecom
<ubuntujenkins> where do we want the quickshot release ppa ?
<nisshh> hehe, you seem to have more problems than me and im with freakin telstra
<ubuntujenkins> manual or quickshot teams
<nisshh> quickshot tema
<nisshh> team
<nisshh> i reckon
<nisshh> lol, the progress bar is still at 71%
<humphreybc> yeah quickshot team
<nisshh> should be a bit higher shouldnt it/
<humphreybc> nisshh: it'll probably be that way for a few more days :P
<nisshh> ah right
<humphreybc> nah
<humphreybc> translations make up at least 30%
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> when the next meeting btw?
<nisshh> i think we need one during rc
<humphreybc> RC is ages away
<humphreybc> we'll probably have a meeting next weekend
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> does anyone know how many languages ubuntu supports/
<humphreybc> ?
<nisshh> alot
<nisshh> atleast 80 i think
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/ReleaseLanguages/9.10
<humphreybc> would be hilarious if the manual supported more languages than the operating syste,
<humphreybc> system*
<humphreybc> we might have more 100% complete languages than them :P
<humphreybc> ubuntu supports 244 languages in total, 25 of which are considered "translated"
<humphreybc> ie, 80% or above
<humphreybc> so if we get 25 languages finished we'll be rockin
<humphreybc> kubuntu is scary
<godbyk> my python script is finding lots of little nit-picky bugs.  gotta love scripts.
<godbyk> basically, when I find a bug, I add it to my script so it can search for similar bugs.
<humphreybc> haha neat
<nisshh> nice
 * humphreybc is installing kubuntu 10.04 in a virtual box
<godbyk> sadly, it means I'm finding even more bugs.  :-/
<humphreybc> it's weird
<humphreybc> lol
 * dutchie is reminded of Fibonacci's rabbits
 * humphreybc has already found inconsistencies in the Kubuntu installer
 * ubuntujenkins grr ppa build failed again
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> sounds like you're having a lot of fun with that PPA luke
<ubuntujenkins> ;(
<godbyk> I've done enough damage for tonight. I'm headed to bed.
<ubuntujenkins> nn godbyk
<humphreybc> night
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: now imagine doing all the packaging by hand
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: it almost impossible here so you must have had no end of fun
<dutchie> I gave up reasonably quickly
<dutchie> ooh, I was going to file a needs-packaging bug
<ubuntujenkins> I am using quickly :P
<nisshh> humphreybc: are you trying out kde 4.4?
<nisshh> coz i already have
<humphreybc> does that come with kubuntu 10.04?
<nisshh> i beleive so
<nisshh> i wrote a blog post about 4.4.1 SC
<nisshh> you should check it out
<nisshh> ultimately since i only have 1 machine im sticking wuth GNOME since i develop GTK apps
<nisshh> but holy crap kmail is better than evolution
<nisshh> my blog post is here:http://freakaboutlinux.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/trying-out-kde-4-4-1-sc/
<nisshh> its not very in depth but it gives a general idea
<nisshh> right, now im off to watch some newly downloaded movies
 * humphreybc is trying out Moovida. It's really cool, but sluggish on the open source radeon drivers. Kinda want to build a dedicated home media center now... will do that next year :D
 * ubuntujenkins is waiting for launchpad to build the package but has a bad feeling there is only a i368 version
<ubuntujenkins> see you all later o/
<ubuntujenkins> The ppa worked woo
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: can we make the screenshot list scrollable?
<titeuf_87> Oh I thought it already was.
<titeuf_87> I'll do that in just a little bit.
<ubuntujenkins> you can do it with the down arrows but a scrollbar would be better
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<ubuntujenkins> thanks titeuf_87
<titeuf_87> Are there any other things that still needs to be done outside of what's written in the todo list?
<ubuntujenkins> erm those three windows don't look the same. I am going to get the wiki sorted, the cd is done and the ppas are done
<titeuf_87> The change resolution windows?
<ubuntujenkins> yep they look better but they still don't look the same
<titeuf_87> Ah can you describe the differences? I'll take another look at those too.
<ubuntujenkins> The one that warns you is fine, the other two the icons are to far to the left in comparison
<titeuf_87> Ah ok.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> this came out of a question raised on quickshot The quickshot user isn't removed when the program is removed
<ubuntujenkins> I have added it to the todo list
<titeuf_87> Should it be removed?
<ubuntujenkins> I will look into it and see if it is possible, maybe an option to remove it/
<ubuntujenkins> like when you except java licence agrement or configure grub.
<titeuf_87> Usually when you uninstall an app you keep its config files in your home dir, I guess it's similar here and we shouldn't touch this?
<ubuntujenkins> this was the original question https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+question/105213
<ubuntujenkins> good point
<titeuf_87> Bleh, glade file looks all messed up again.
<ubuntujenkins> thats why i haven't touched it
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: humphreybc noticed a typo in the screenshot names, I haven't made the changes in the quickshot branch, how much code needs changing to fix it?
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, Do you still get prompted to change the resolution?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<titeuf_87> Weird, it doesn't for me anymore.
<ubuntujenkins> what graphics are you on?
<titeuf_87> nvidia
<ubuntujenkins> let me double check
<titeuf_87> Ah think I found it, let me try it out.
<titeuf_87> Ok, found what the problem was and fixed it too :)
<ubuntujenkins> what was it ti works here
<titeuf_87> In the detechgrahpics function, for nvidia it never called on_ok_changeres() like it should.
<ubuntujenkins> strange how it works for me
<revberaldo> hello
<ubuntujenkins> hello revberaldo
<revberaldo> can anyone tell me where do I download the ubuntu manual source?
<revberaldo> It would be nice to have a kind of âlatex visual referenceâ
<ubuntujenkins> have you used bzr before?
<revberaldo> not really but I have used git
<dutchie> the branch is quite big, and we've got lots of helper commands
<ubuntujenkins> have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors
<dutchie> it's probably not your best example of vanilla LaTeX
<revberaldo> thank you, ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> the total is 145mb
<revberaldo> dutchie I have some experience with latex
<revberaldo> ubuntujenkins my connection is fast enough :)
<revberaldo> (but not that fast)
<dutchie> still, I don't think it'll be massively useful as a visual reference
<ubuntujenkins> I am at home with a sucky interent speed
<revberaldo> dutchie well, I'll try anyway...  I want to see what can I do with large LaTeX knowledge
<dutchie> sure
<revberaldo> well, thank you all
<ubuntujenkins> np
<Daker> Hello
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, Quickshot was used to capture all of the Firefox screencaps last night. It worked (almost) perfectly. :)
<Red_HamsterX> My last night.
<titeuf_87> What didn't work?
<Red_HamsterX> (UTC-7)
<Red_HamsterX> It's clipping one row of pixels from hte bottom of each window (I know how to fix this), and I needed to fix a few minor bugs, all of which were on my side.
<Red_HamsterX> Just letting you know it's working. Great job. :)
<titeuf_87> To show the reference screenshot, I'm thinking about just adding an extra button in the screenshot list.
<titeuf_87> Probably not the best way for the UI-side, but it's the simplest way for now without changing too much.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, that's what I'd do.
<Red_HamsterX> Until we rebuild it based on user feedback.
<titeuf_87> April was the deadline right?
<ubuntujenkins> hell guys
<Red_HamsterX> I think that's the target, yes.
<Red_HamsterX> A wonderful Hades to you, too, ubuntujenkins.
<titeuf_87> Hey ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> how are we doing?
<Red_HamsterX> I should be done with backend stuff today, so I'll start taking care of any usability issues added to the Etherpad after that.
<Red_HamsterX> We're doing well.
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot works in practice.
<ubuntujenkins> I am liking the list of stuff for future releases
<Red_HamsterX> Feel free to add/comment/ctiricise.
<Red_HamsterX> I just came up with that while waking up.
<titeuf_87> The 31st and the 1st I won't be around as I'm going to be two days at the MS Tech Days, just letting you all know cause I won't be able to work on quickshot then.
<Red_HamsterX> (To delay having to do taxes, which I'm doing now)
<dutchie> titeuf_87: freedom hater ;)
<ubuntujenkins> I like it a lot, I am going to add some stuff to the devel flag so that a normal run will check if you are using lucid or not
<Red_HamsterX> Can't own the opposition without knowing what they're doing. =P
<ubuntujenkins> we don't want people taking screenshots in karmic
<titeuf_87> dutchie, I'm tempted to wear my gnome shirt, but I don't think my work would really appreciate that :(
<dutchie> heh
<ubuntujenkins> but with the devel flag you can run it on any system. Does that seam a good idea or is there a better way of doing it?
<Red_HamsterX> It seems like a good enough way of doing it.
<Red_HamsterX> That or --debug.
<ubuntujenkins> what are you guys running?
<ubuntujenkins> I am on lucid
<titeuf_87> karmic for me
<Red_HamsterX> Debian testing for most development, Karmic for things like the server, and Lucid for testing.
<Red_HamsterX> I use Debian for most things.
<ubuntujenkins> as we have to use the devel flag to run the latest version i think it makes sense to put it in with that?
<Red_HamsterX> --devel currently ony changes how the quickshot user gets set up.
<Red_HamsterX> only*
<Red_HamsterX> Either flag's good. I'm running with both of them.
<Red_HamsterX> We don't really have a design standard yet.
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't run debug yet must see what it is like
<titeuf_87> It just spams your console.
<Red_HamsterX> It just spams the console with status printouts.
<Red_HamsterX> It's useful if you need to trace the path the program is taking.
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: in the dictonary  file why is the command have ~ on the next line?
<ubuntujenkins> nautilus
<ubuntujenkins> ~
<titeuf_87> The ~ is synonym for your home dir. So that command will open nautilus on your home directory.
<Red_HamsterX> Each line represents a separate token.
<Red_HamsterX> So we don't have to escape everything.
<Red_HamsterX> Aside from that, what titeuf_87 said.
<ubuntujenkins> ok make sense, ~ means home
<Red_HamsterX> ~<username> means <username>'s home.
<donri> Eww, they made the power switch red?
<dutchie> donri: only when you have to reboot
<donri> Oh!
<Red_HamsterX> ~flan == /home/flan on a default setup.
 * donri is mid-update.
<Red_HamsterX> ~root would be /root on a Debian system.
<dutchie> and on an ubuntu system too
<ubuntujenkins> Its such a random symbol to use, I can't think of a better one though
<Red_HamsterX> It's a convenient shortcut for scripting.
<Red_HamsterX> It's been around forever.
<Red_HamsterX> Since, like, the inception of Unix.
<Red_HamsterX> You see it in Apache a lot.
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan on my home server links to /home/flan/public_html
<Red_HamsterX> Ah, you're right, dutchie. I forgot that root was defined on Ubuntu.
<dutchie> This practice derives from the Lear-Siegler ADM-3A terminal in common use during the 1970s, which happened to have the tilde symbol and the word "Home" (for moving the cursor to the upper left) on the same key.
<dutchie> according to WP
<Red_HamsterX> (I thought it was actually left out of /etc/passwd, rather than merely being deprived of a password)
<Red_HamsterX> (I dunno why I thought this, though, given that root can own things)
<ubuntujenkins> has anyone heard from mattgriffin?
<ubuntujenkins> Just added a few bits to the dictionary
<Red_HamsterX> 'Kay. They'll get auto-pulled in twenty minutes.
<Red_HamsterX> (Or I can force it if you want to test)
<ubuntujenkins> no only little things here and there
<Red_HamsterX> Like replacing my "Dunno, lawl"s?
<ubuntujenkins> Yep and any missing commands
<Red_HamsterX> Yay.
<ubuntujenkins> If i show the user a link how can i make it click able (in a python window)
<titeuf_87> Isn't there a special kind of label for that?
<ubuntujenkins> possibly I am changing a current label when the user launches and the are not using lucid. It will point them at the wiki and the live cd
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, from what I can find in glade, you'll need to use a linkbutton
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i just discovered, I will have to add an extra lable
<donri> Does pango markup support anchor links?
<titeuf_87> I'm not sure donri
<donri> Quite sure I've seen links mid-labels with Gtk.
 * ubuntujenkins googles what donri said
<Red_HamsterX> You could try it. (I'd volunteer, but I'm almost done with one of the more painful tax forms)
<ubuntujenkins> how do i set pango mark up for the label? It is already set in glade but doesn't work when you change the label text
<titeuf_87> try label.set_markup?
<ubuntujenkins> I will have a go
<ubuntujenkins> night all o/
<titeuf_87> Goodnight ubuntujenkins.
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-21
<master5o1> Stupid OMG! Ubuntu has "IRC: #ubuntu-manual.org on freenode.net"
<master5o1> :P
<godbyk> master5o1: Ah, well.  They'll find us. :)
<master5o1> :P
<c7p> hey godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.
<c7p> am i intrerupting you or something ?
<c7p> interrupting *
<godbyk> I'm just troubleshooting some multithreading issues.  Please interrupt! :-)
<c7p> lol
<c7p> if you are working on something just ping me later
<c7p> :P
<godbyk> We can chat.
<godbyk> I may be a titch slow to respond occasionally, but otherwise, it's okay.
<c7p> i don't have problem with that
<c7p> we got one more applicant for the EiC job
<c7p> so now we have around 4-5 candidates for the Editor position and two for the leadership
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> I think the editor is more important that the project lead, actually.
<c7p> yes i totally agree on that
<godbyk> I see the project leader role as having more to do with marketing, recruiting, motivating, etc.
<godbyk> And the editor role actually makes sure everything gets done.
<c7p> appart from the EiC that we will "earn" from this process, the rest candidates can work as authors or editors
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-25
<rickfosb_> quit
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, can you generate the manual in pt-br with e1 series, I didn't have sucess
<c7p> godbyk: are you on ?
<jasono> Hi am I online?
<Guest4810> Hi
<Guest4810> This is jasono please tell me if you see this. Iam testing irc on the browser. Waiting for tonight's meeting.
<Guest4810> Mobile browser.
<Guest4810> .
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-26
<zkriesse> Apparently I missed a meeting eh?
<godbyk> zkriesse: Nope, hasn't happened yet.
<godbyk> It'll happen at Saturday at 20:00 UTC.
<zkriesse> ah
<zkriesse> jasono: was asking me if it did is why
<jasono> :O
<jasono> sorry zkriesse I got the days mixed up.
<godbyk> No problem. :)
<zkriesse> it's cool
<zkriesse> Ok, have to run
<jasono> I  was freaking out for no reason then!
<godbyk> Better to be a day early than a day late, right?
<zkriesse> Trying to put in job apps
<jasono> godbyk I guess. Do you know who won the election by any chance? ;)
<godbyk> jasono: Election?  For the editor-in-chief and project leader positions?
<godbyk> We will be voting on that during the meeting.
<jasono> zkriesse Interesting that you leave every time I'm done speaking to you.
<jasono> godbyk Yes
<zkriesse> Lol sorry bro but it just happens i guess
<jasono> godbyk Oh :(
<MichealH> Hi all
<MichealH> The meeting is at... 8:00 PM UTC?
<Infosoft> Hey everyone! Who is responsible for ubuntu-manual.org translations coordination?
<hannie> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2
<hannie> Is this url ok?
<hannie> Server not found
<c7p1> it doesn't work for me
<c7p1> http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2
<c7p1> check the above link
<popey> works for me
<hannie> ok, thanks
<c7p1> due to technical issues i think we will use the ietherpad link which is accessible to everyone (until now)
<hannie> btw, good evening everybody
<c7p1> hello all, meeting will start within the next 10 minutes
<hannie> In the meantime I'll read info Fosburgh
<godbyk> We'll be starting the meeting in just a few minutes.
<godbyk> (We like to give a few minutes for the stragglers to arrive.)
<daker> o/
<godbyk> If you'd like, you can read the meeting agenda here: http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2
<godbyk> You can also start looking at the emails and resumes we received from the 'job' applicants here: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/
<godbyk> Hello, daker and hannie.
<shrini> hello godbyk
<shrini> hello c7p1
<daker> hello godbyk c7p1 shrini hannie popey
<shrini> happy to see you all after a long time
<hannie> daker, hello
<popey> hi
<MichealH> Sorry I'm a little late o/
<MichealH> What have I missed?
<godbyk> MichealH: Nothing yet. We'll be starting in just a couple minutes.
<MichealH> godbyk, Okies
<MichealH> :)
<daker> Earth Hour in 30min ã who's going to turn off the lights ?
<godbyk> daker: Well, it's the middle of the afternoon here, so it wouldn't help much. :)
<MichealH> I hopefull will If my sister lets me  :P
<hannie> Tonight we loose one hour here (summertime)
<c7p1> let the computer screen light your room !
<beginer> shrini ya just got me
<godbyk> hannie: We started summer time a couple weeks ago.
<daker> godbyk, shutdown your servers :D
<MichealH> Oh yeah, its BST for me tommorow
<godbyk> daker: Never! ;-)
<godbyk> Okay, I think we can get started now.
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:10. The chair is godbyk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<godbyk> Hello, MootBot, my old friend.
<MichealH> Hi o/
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Discuss turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing and recuiting team role.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing and recuiting team role.
<c7p1> before all agenda http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2
<godbyk> Ah, yes. Thanks, c7p1.
<godbyk> We had to move the agenda page because the previous pad server went offline.
<godbyk> We had two people apply for the project leader role and four apply for the editor in chief role.
<godbyk> Since there were only two applicants for the project leader role, we were considering just having both of them join forces and form a marketing/recruiting/etc. team.
<MichealH> godbyk, Its okay, as long as we have the Etherpad :)
<godbyk> But I wanted to get your thoughts on that first.  I'd like to hear from the applicants on this, too.
<godbyk> Any thoughts?
<beginer> nope
<MichealH> godbyk, As I have worked with Jason, and have been asked to do so by my UBT Master, i think it would be great
<Teotw> although not applying for the project leader role, I think it's a good idea
<popey> I'd be interested in seeing what work both jason and michael have completed for the ubuntu project
<popey> i.e. not stuff that's been started, but _completed_
<MichealH> Unfortunalty It seems Jason is not here... :(
<godbyk> While we discuss this, everyone is welcome to read the emails and resumes submitted by the applicants: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/
<hannie> I'm busy reading them now
<godbyk> Okay, I'll ask a slightly more pointed question then: Is anyone *against* the idea of turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing/recruitment/etc. team?
<MichealH> I would not mind :P
<c7p1> to candidates: if you could add you name next to your nickname in the pad/agenda, that would be very helpful for everyone
<hannie> can you explain a bit more about that?
<MichealH> As my UBT Master has indeed taught me the art of 'kidnapping' people and other important stuff, I can do some of that already
<shrini> what will be the roles and duties?
<MichealH> c7p1, Where shall I put it?
<godbyk> The roles we posted are shown here: http://ubuntu-manual.org/jobs
<MichealH> I have my Nick next to my name in the pad names list
<c7p1> MichealH: http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2
<MichealH> c7p1, I mean, where in the document?
<beginer> hey jasono ? is that you>?
<godbyk> The project leader's primary responsibilities are to promote the project and help recruit new members.
<MichealH> Hi Jason :D
<jasono> Hi beginer Yes it is, sorry I'm late.
<jasono> Hey MichealH
<godbyk> jasono: No problem.
<MichealH> godbyk, As I said, my UBT Master has helped me perfect that art :)
<godbyk> jasono: We were just discussing the idea of turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing/recruitment team for both you and MichealH.  Do you have any objections?
<beginer> jasono just chill
<jasono> godbyk I have no problem with that. Care to explain more?
<MichealH> jasono, I would love us both to work on UM together
<jasono> beginer Sure.
<jasono> MichealH I'm willing.
<godbyk> jasono: Sure. You and MichealH were the only two applicants for that role.  Instead of electing just one of you, we thought we might coerce the two of you into working together.
 * popey wonders if his question will get addressed.
<godbyk> So effectively, jasono and MichealH would be sharing the role and working together.
<MichealH> Im perfectly willing :)
<MichealH> (as long as Jason is)
 * shrini claps
<godbyk> popey: You might re-ask it since jasono is here now.
<popey> 20:13:59 < popey> I'd be interested in seeing what work both jason and michael have completed for the ubuntu project
<popey> 20:14:06 < popey> i.e. not stuff that's been started, but _completed_
<jasono>  MichealH of course.
<beginer> lol
<c7p1> in other words you will both work both in a team that has as it's main goal to promote the project, attract new members
<MichealH> c7p1, Yeah, I understood :)
<c7p1> that's what we called "marketing team" on previous meeting, at least that was the idea
<jasono> popey I honestly have no completed work.
<popey> thanks jasono
<MichealH> Me and Jason were going to start a IRC Bot, but as SpeechControl was pushed upstream and so was the SII, we could not start it as
<MichealH> Alot of work was put int o start work, though
<MichealH> s/int o/into
<MichealH> and also, we had thought again about the IRCBot
<MichealH> Leaving our work ready to start, but not completed.
<c7p1> so i guess we are done with this topic, if so we should move on
<shrini> what will that bot do?
<c7p1> is there anything else ?
<shrini> ok
<shrini> we can move on
<MichealH> shrini, It was going to help people with Hearing and Sight problems
<shrini> awesome
<MichealH> It was gonna help them IRC :)
<jasono> I'm also helping out with BrowserSpeak https://launchpad.net/browserspeak/
<MichealH> c7p1, Totally doe here :)
<MichealH> *done
<godbyk> Okay, it sounds like both MichealH and jasono are willing to work together as a marketing and recruitment team.
<MichealH> godbyk, Indeed we are
<jasono> A little similar to the one MichealH and I are doing, but it's a Chrom(ium)e extension.
<godbyk> [ACTION] MichaelH and jasono will work together on a newly formed marketing/recruitment team to promote the Ubuntu Manual Project and help recruit new team members.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  MichaelH and jasono will work together on a newly formed marketing/recruitment team to promote the Ubuntu Manual Project and help recruit new team members.
 * jasono Awesome. 
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Editor in chief
<MootBot> New Topic:  Editor in chief
<godbyk> Next up, we'll take a look at the editor in chief applicants.
<godbyk> You can view the emails and resumes from those applicants here: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/
<godbyk> If any of the editor applicants are present and would like to talk about their background and how they'd like to contribute to the project, feel free.
<godbyk> We'll take a few minutes to chat with any present applicants and review the emails.
<Teotw> Shall I go first, or does anyone else want to?
<rickfosb> Sure My name is Rick Fosburgh.  I'm a Senior Specialist with AT&T responsible for Service Metric and Capacity results.   I have led efforts to design and implement software, primarily in C and CSQL.  I've also led the team responsible for documentation of those software development projects.
<rickfosb> Teotw Sorry..  I hit send about the time I saw your remark.
<Teotw> Hey no problem
<rickfosb> Until recently, I've been an avid Ubuntu user.  Rather than spending time in development, I  felt a role in editing the Ubuntu Manual would be a good fit.  However, I look forward to working with this team in any capacity you see fit.
<rickfosb> Thanks! for the opportunity.
<godbyk> Thanks, rickfosb!
<godbyk> Teotw: Feel free to jump in.
<shrini> Thanks for the interest guys
<Teotw> Ok then, my name is Daniel Duncan. I have a grade A in both English & English literature. I have also 100% in Design and Technology GCSE. Those are my only achievements (in this general area) but then again I'm only 17.
<shrini> :-)
<Teotw> I have been in an avid Ubuntu user for several years now, and have only helped a little in the Ubuntu community
<Teotw> which is the main reason I wish to have this role, as I have a strong desire to give something back.
<Teotw> (Next applicant can go!)
<c7p1> thanks Teotw
<godbyk> Are there any other editor in chief applicants here?
<godbyk> Anyone present should feel free to ask questions of the applicants.
<MichealH> Teotw, As Editor in Cheif, what will you do to make sure all manuals are "ship-shape" as I could put it before release?
<MichealH> Would you test them personally? Or would you dedicate a team for testing?
<Teotw> Well, even though it is potentially long winded, one thing would be to go through the manual as a new user to Ubuntu, testing them out on my guinea-pig laptop
<Teotw> and from there check factual accuracy, how readable it is, spelling, as well.
<MichealH> You would give it some sort of quality mark for each section?
<MichealH> So the more questions a new user could ask, the less of a quality mark it would get?
<Teotw> Yes,
<Teotw> A quality mark, and comments.
<godbyk> For both rickfosb and Teotw: It takes a number of months (and a lot of hours) to complete an edition of the manual.  Do you foresee any problems with being able to dedicate the time required (especially over the long term)?
<Teotw> I see no reason not to be able to dedicate the time required (unless there's a coffee shortage!)
<MichealH> Teotw, hehe ;)
<Teotw> ;P
<shrini> how will you manage translations?
<hannie> Is the job not more about delegating others?
<rickfosb> godbyk I do have a day job.  But this is the type of work that adds 'spice' to your life.  I'll put in the hours. :)
<godbyk> Please note that we don't provide coffee. :-)
<Teotw> godbyk: Lmao
<MichealH> godbyk, heh, You provide your own coffee :P
<Teotw> shrini, hannie: Are the questions directed at both of us?
<shrini> yes
<hannie> in general
<rickfosb> I find that extra eye are always good to have on documentation.  However, prior to a release, the ultimate responsibility should fall to the EIC.  I would expect that I'd spend those final hours review the work of the team and checking the work.
<hannie> You must let others do the work!
<MichealH> Teotw, How would you communicate with the Leaders, at what times would you come to us to ask us a favour?
<godbyk> hannie: A lot of delegation is involved, yes.  But we definitely want someone who will stick around throughout the entire release cycle.
<Teotw> shrini: translations will be managed by finding and delegating people for translations.
<hannie> godbyk, yes, but it takes special skills to delegate
<rickfosb> shrini I'm new to this part of the process, however,  I would expect to work closely with those team members to ensure that the output document shares the same look and feel of the original.
<Teotw> MichaelH: IRC, skype, email, msn and from 7:00pm to 11:00 pm weekdays, and probably not the weekend
<shrini> great
<shrini> look and feel is same as we use latex
<shrini> for typesetting
<c7p1> please give some time to candidates to answer :)
<MichealH> Teotw, That in UTC?
<Teotw> yes, sorry, probably should have mentioned that!
<MichealH> Okay, I am on UTC :)
<MichealH> Not too sure about jasono, though
<Teotw> For any other timezones, I might make a delay to emails, or something
<c7p1> i would like to ask both applicants if they will work for the project despite of not being electing as Editor in Chief
<c7p1> elected*
<Teotw> I don't mind what I do, though my preference is definitely Editor in Chief
<jasono> MichealH: UTC-4:00
<rickfosb> Per my opening, I'll continue to work with the team.  And am looking forward to this.  :-)
<MichealH> jasono, Wanna ask any quesions to the EIC candidates?
<jasono> MchealH Sure.
<MichealH> rickfosb, Again, If you ever needed to contact me or Jason, how and when would you do it?
<MichealH> How often would you ask us something, or suggest something that will be benificial to your team?
<jasono> Teotw How much time are you willing to spend too be EIC?-What will you do to make sure everything is well and up to date?
<rickfosb> It would depend on time sensitivity.  Email is at your discretion.  I do have access to skype, etc. as well as a 'generous' phone allowance  :)    I intend to minimize impact to your life while getting the job done.
<Teotw> jasono: I would willing to be EIC as long as you would like me too - I would spend as much time as possible (I can't say how many hours per day, my guess is a few),
<godbyk> We'll start voting in about five minutes to give everyone time to get their questions answered and to finish reading the applications.
<rickfosb> My current responsibilities allow me to work various hours, at my discretion.  This gives me the opportunity to keep up to date with your progress, etc.
<godbyk> Teotw and rickfosb: Do you have any questions for us about the editor in chief role or any of its duties?
<Teotw> I don't think so
<rickfosb> Sure:  How many folks have been involved in the actual manual in the past?  How many 'writers' should we expect to be involved this time?
<hannie> Teotw, rickfosb have you given translating the Manual a thought?
<godbyk> rickfosb: In the past, we had assigned one or more authors to each chapter, and one editor to each chapter.  Usually the chapter editors covered multiple chapters.
<Teotw> hannie: no, sorry - do you mean getting people to translate it? I know a few people who *might* be interested - though that's a big might
<rickfosb> I have some 'limited' Spanish skills. So, I've only thought about how to use vi and text editors to manipulate provided translations.
<Teotw> (that's into Spanish, by the way)
<godbyk> rickfosb: The number of authors is hard to determine as anyone can commit code, but I'd guess that we had less than a dozen primary authors.
<rickfosb> godbyk; thanks.
<Teotw> I have, by the way, limited French skills (B GCSE) and um, well, I'm currently learning Ancient Greek
<Teotw> Though that's probably not helpful!
<godbyk> rickfosb: When it comes to translators, the number varies wildly from language to language.  Some of the languages had a dozen or more translators, while others only had two or three.
<rickfosb> I saw some work come in this week.  I expect that merging those documents 'might' be a challenge, but again, with latex as your guide,  seems doable.
<hannie> Teotw, I meant getting translation teams involved
<c7p1> Teotw: i don't think there are many who will read the manual in Ancient Greek :P
<Teotw> c7p1: Well, you never know :P
<c7p1> regarding the translations EiC hasn't any responsibility on them, right godbyk ?
<Teotw> hannie: Ah! I see!
<Teotw> hannie: shall I re-answer?
<hannie> maybe it is not one of the tasks for the eic
<godbyk> c7p1: Not directly.  We have a translation editor who is in change of managing each translated edition.  The translation editors are basically equivalent to the editor in chief of the primary English edition.
<c7p1> thanks for making it clear :)
<godbyk> Okay, so let me explain how to vote.  [This ought to be entertaining.]
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Elect an editor in chief
<MootBot> New Topic:  Elect an editor in chief
<godbyk> We have four applicants: Fosburgh (rickfosb), Humnabadkar, Burgos, and Duncan (Teotw).
<godbyk> We'll be voting using the instant-runoff method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting).
<godbyk> Anyone can vote.
<hannie> Can we vote when only two of the applicants are present?
<godbyk> To vote, you'll need to rearrange the four names in the order of preference, most preferred applicant's name first.
<godbyk> hannie: Yes.  They're not required to attend, though we did invite everyone.
<MichealH> godbyk, Cant we just [VOTE] and count the +1's?
<MichealH> :P
<godbyk> MichealH: We considered that, but this method avoids ties and revotes.
<MichealH> Okies
<MichealH> I will look up xP
<godbyk> For example, if you preferred ApplicantB over ApplicantA, you'd say: godbyk: ApplicantB ApplicantA.
<godbyk> Any questions on the voting procedure?
<jasono> No.
<MichealH> godbyk, Out of the people attended today:  Teotw, rickfosb
<godbyk> MichealH: You can vote for all four applicants (not just Teotw and rickfosb).
<MichealH> I see that Teotw would work alot, so would rickfosb
<godbyk> List all four applicant's names in order of preference.
<hannie> You want us to put the four names in order of preference?
<godbyk> hannie: Yes.
<godbyk> When you've figured out your preferences, let me know and I will keep a tally.
<godbyk> We will close the voting in 10 minutes (at 21:20 UTC).
<godbyk> If you have any questions, please let me know.
<hannie> It's not a secret vote, is it?
<godbyk> hannie: Good question.
<MichealH> I have made my vote
<godbyk> Do we want all votes to be public or should we allow anonymous votes?
<MichealH> godbyk, Private ones if they want :)
<godbyk> Okay. You can either vote publicly in this channel or message me privately with your votes.
<c7p1> that's good
<godbyk> I'll report all the votes in this channel (but remove the voters' names from the privately cast votes).
<godbyk> Vote received: Fosburgh Burgos Duncan Humnabadkar
<godbyk> Vote received: Fosburgh Duncan Burgos Humnabadkar
<shrini> Duncan Fosburgh Humnabadkar Burgos
<godbyk> Vote received: Fosburgh Duncan Burgos Humnabadkar
<shrini> godbyk: Duncan Fosburgh Humnabadkar Burgos
 * godbyk opens a spreadsheet before this gets too insane. :-)
<hannie> Where is your secretary?
<MichealH> godbyk, Duncan Fosburgh Burgos Humnabadkar
<godbyk> hannie: If only I had one! :-)
<godbyk> Vote received: Duncan Fosburgh Burgos Humnabadkar
<godbyk> So far I've received votes from: godbyk, c7p1, hannie, jasono, rickfosb, shrini, MichealH.
<MichealH> godbyk, Nice script you have there :P
<godbyk> Anyone else have any last-minute votes?
<MichealH> godbyk, Can you tell us the results so far?
<MichealH> I expect it will be close...
<godbyk> Sure. One sec.
<godbyk> Okay, our ten minutes are up.
<godbyk> Let me tally up the results here.
<hannie> Before the EiC is elected I want to say thanks to all the candidates
 * MichealH seconds that
<Teotw> Thanks to all you too
<godbyk> Okay, I've got the totals.
<MichealH> godbyk, Last Place first!
<MichealH> Last place was:
<godbyk> We had seven voters.
<hannie> suspense
<godbyk> Here are the totals for each candidate:
<MichealH> godbyk, Last place to first place?
<godbyk> Fosburgh: first: 4, second: 3, third: 0, fourth: 0
<godbyk> Humnabadkar: first: 0, second: 0, third: 1, fourth: 6
<godbyk> Burgos: first: 0, second: 1, third: 5, fourth: 1
<godbyk> Duncan: first: 3, second: 3: third: 1, fourth: 0.
<MichealH> SO CLOSE :P
<godbyk> A majority of votes would be 4 or more.
 * shrini whistles
<hannie> pffff
<godbyk> With 4 first-preference votes, Fosburgh has been elected as editor in chief.
<Teotw> Grats, Fosburgh
 * shrini claps and whistles
<rickfosb> Thank you all!
<MichealH> Congrats, rickfosb
<shrini> wishes  rickfosb
<godbyk> So congratulations, rickfosb.
<hannie> rickfosb, congrats!
<godbyk> And huge thanks to all of our applicants.
<c7p1> Congrats all !
<Teotw> Thanks
<godbyk> While you didn't win the election, we'd love for you to join our team.
<Teotw> Me?
<c7p1> of course
<Teotw> What would I do?
<rickfosb> I'll look forward to your help Teotw!
<hannie> standby
<godbyk> To all of our candidates, you're welcome to join our team and help out.
 * jasono :s
<godbyk> Teotw: Don't worry -- there's never a shortage of work to be done!
<hannie> what luxury!
<Teotw> Don't suppose I could be told why I didn't get voted for?
<Teotw> lol
<godbyk> I will add the votes to the minutes.
<c7p1> thanks all for coming and voting
<hannie> you're welcome
<godbyk> c7p1: Since our meeting has run so long, should we address the maverick release in our next meeting or do you want to go ahead and do it now?
<MichealH> Lets do it now :P
<rickfosb> Agree.
<godbyk> Okay.  I'll let c7p1 handle that then (being as he wrote the agenda and all). :-)
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Maverick release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick release
<hannie> It's close to midnight here in Europe, but I don't mind
<godbyk> c7p1: It'll let you lead this topic.
<godbyk> c7p1: Still around?
<c7p1> actually there is nothing from me to tell about the Maverick
<godbyk> Ah, okay.
<c7p1> i mean it was supposed to be an update for screenshots that's all the maverick update essentially
<hannie> Natty will be released shortly
<c7p1> yes we  should start talking about Natty
<shrini> I hope natty manual will require more work as it has unity
<godbyk> Would you like to discuss Natty a bit now or wait until our next meeting?
<MichealH> godbyk, Now, April is just arount the corner
<godbyk> shrini: Natty will definitely require a lot more work as we can't just make a few small changes.
<MichealH> *around
<hannie> I was wondering if the manual can be put chapter by finished chapter on Launchpad
<shrini> let us finish discussion about maverick now
<godbyk> MichealH: True, but we've also kept everyone here for 1.5 hours already and some of them are in time zones where it's quite late.
<godbyk> Okay, so on the Maverick front, I think that we still need to take the updated screenshots.
<hannie> godbyk, it is never too early
<godbyk> I *think* that the screenshots list is the same as it was for Lucid, but we'll need to double-check that.
<c7p1> maybe natty planning should be next meeting's goal
<MichealH> I can kidnap a handy doc guy :P
<godbyk> To take the screenshots, we need to grab the latest version of Quickshot, figure out how to use it, and make sure it's working okay.
 * c7p1 sorry for slow responses
<MichealH> c7p1, Its okay
<shrini> is there any other pending task for maverick?
<godbyk> shrini: I think screenshots are the primary one.
<godbyk> shrini: Other pending tasks would be to continue to pore over it for errors.
<c7p1> there is nobody here knowing for screenshots, i think jenkings was supposed to give us more info but i'm not at all sure
<shrini> godbyk: reading about quickshot
<shrini> godbyk: will try to do that task of capturing screenshots
<godbyk> shrini: Thanks.
<shrini> can anyone guide me on what to do after this meeting?
<Teotw> ditto!
<godbyk> shrini: If you want to look at Quickshot, that'd be helpful. Download the latest version, see if it works, and then write some instructions on how to use it.
<shrini> sure
<godbyk> Has anyone been using Natty yet?
<Teotw> I tested it the other day
<godbyk> We need to make a list of changes between Maverick and Natty.  What parts of the manual need to be updated? What parts need to be replaced entirely (Unity)? Etc.
<rickfosb> Just an initial glance.  I haven't spent any real time as yet.
<rickfosb> Sounds like section 2?  I didn't see any differences during installation.  anyone?
<hannie> You could open a wiki page for that
<godbyk> I'll add a discussion of Natty changes to our next meeting's agenda.
<godbyk> If anyone would like to install Natty and poke around and start a list of changes, that'd be great.
<Teotw> I don't mind doing that
<godbyk> You can create a wiki page for it under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/.
<hannie> And post changes on the mailing list?
<c7p1> for natty changes you could also use this http://ietherpad.com/NattyChanges
<hannie> ok
<godbyk> You're welcome to use the mailing list to discuss changes, too, yes.
<Teotw> kk
<godbyk> c7p1: I'm starting to be a little more wary of pads since it seems they are offline a lot. :)
<c7p1> godbyk: you are right
<c7p1> maybe a google doc ?
<godbyk> rickfosb: I'll send you an email soon to fill you in on some of the fun things we have planned for you. <evil grin>
<rickfosb> godbyk; thanks
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<godbyk> I think it's getting a bit late for some folks, and I don't want to keep you any longer.
<godbyk> Is there any other business that needs to be discussed?
<hannie> So, when is the next meeting?
<godbyk> We've been trying to schedule meetings every couple weeks.
<godbyk> The frequency of the meetings can be adjusted as needed, of course.
<shrini> godbyk: installed quickshot
<shrini> will test it and mail the team later
<shrini> getting very late
<shrini> it is 3.30 am for me
<shrini> very good morning for all
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> Between now and the next meeting, feel free to use this IRC channel and our mailing list to stay in touch, ask any questions, continue discussions, etc.
<c7p1> for me there is nothing more
<hannie> ok, bedtime for me too
<shrini> wishes for the new leads
<hannie> see you all nest time, guys
<shrini> thanks for all participants
<godbyk> Thanks everyone for coming.
<godbyk> And thanks especially to all of our applicants!
<hannie> *next
<Teotw> :)
<c7p1> Thank you all for coming
<rickfosb> :)
<c7p1> next meeting in two weeks or next week ?
<komsas> I'm happy to see that ubuntu manual community begin to live again. Good luck and don't stop :)
<godbyk> We'll post the minutes to the mailing list soon.
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:53.
<shrini> godbyk: did you work with quickshot?
<shrini> how to create user for that
<shrini> ?
<godbyk> shrini: I didn't write it. And I haven't used the new version yet.
<shrini> ok
<godbyk> shrini: You might contact the Quickshot folks.  they've been really busy lately.  But let them know that you're going to be writing instructions on how to use it and may need some help getting started.  https://launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs
<shrini> sure
<MichealH> I need to go now :)
<shrini> godbyk: bye
<godbyk> Okay.  Thanks for coming, MichealH.
<MichealH> Byez! :P
<shrini> thanks for all folks
<godbyk> Goodbye, shrini. Thanks for your help.
<shrini> thanks godbyk
<rickfosb> Thanks again to all.  Going to move on to another weekend task. :)
<godbyk> rickfosb: Thanks for coming, rickfosb.  And congratulations on your new role.
<godbyk> (You may regret it sooner than you think. ;-))
<rickfosb> ha!  oh wait!  is that the ground?????  Better run...
<rickfosb> :))
<c7p1> rickfosb, jasono, MichealH whatever you want i'm willing to help and also to help you understand the projects situation etc
<jasono> c7p1 Thanks.
<rickfosb> c7p1 Thanks.
<komsas> godbyk, do you know shrini email or any other contact, I wanted to give him email log with Neil, when I did all screenshots. It could help him a lot.
<godbyk> komsas: Let me see if I can find it real quick.
<godbyk> Found it.
<komsas> thanks, by the way, infosoft said that you'll help me with one little problem in the latex world. I hope you could find for me time till next sunday?
<godbyk> komsas: Yeah, it sounds like the small-caps font may not have all the letters you need.
<godbyk> komsas: Which edition are you working on?
<komsas> second
<komsas> there is all my sources https://github.com/komsas/Ubuntu-manual-lucid-2
<godbyk> komsas: Okay. I may have to create a small file for you that you can drop in to change the formatting of the running heads.
<godbyk> If the small-caps font doesn't have all the letters you need, we can just use regular uppercase and lowercase letters.
<komsas> sounds good
<godbyk> komsas: Actually, if you give me your email address, I can send this file to you right now.
<godbyk> Then you can test it out sometime and let me know how it looks.
<komsas> godbyk, komsas@gmail.com
<godbyk> komsas: Okay, sent.
<komsas> thanks you, I'm going to tray
<komsas> try *
<godbyk> Hopefully I didn't screw up the file. :-)
<godbyk> There are some other options in that file that we may want to set, too, but we can do those a bit later if we need to.
<komsas> godbyk, it worked only in the first running head "Ä¯î¦îîîî£" changed to âÄ®vadasâ, other left same.
<godbyk> Hmm..
<godbyk> So the running head on the left-hand page and right-hand page are formatted differently?  (One is still in small-caps and the other is now correct [using uppercase and lowercase]?)
<komsas> in the left all letters are latin (without Lithuanian letters), so mainly only right have problems. So for now only first right have correct, it is in lowercase with first latter capitalized.
<godbyk> I haven't updated my copy of the Lithuanian translation for quite a while, but it didn't compile cleanly.  It did however, show "Ubuntu 10.04 pradedanÄiÅ³jÅ³ vadovas" on the left-hand page and "Ä®vadas" on the right-hand page.
<komsas> try my branch
<komsas> it is fresh and new
<godbyk> Okay
<komsas> I did some changes there, like to show better screenshots and other.. there is all commits so you can see
<godbyk> What do I run to build it?
<komsas> make ubuntu-manual-lt.pdf
<komsas> there is sometimes problems with glossary or index, then I run this commands manually
<godbyk> Ah, I see what's happening.
<godbyk> The formatting change is only in effect for the front matter (the copyright page, table of contents, introduction), but not the main matter (chapter 1 onward).
<godbyk> I wonder if it's that way in the original lucid-e2 code..
<godbyk> At any rate, I can fix that.  One moment.
<godbyk> I'll just fork it real quick. Probably easier for you to see the changes then.
<komsas> yee.. I wanted to say that to fork is best solutions
<komsas> I'm going to see
<komsas> oh I read that you did that.. ;))
<komsas> so I'm going to sleep it is late here, thank you godbyk for help, tomorrow I'll check your commits
<c7p1> night komsas
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-27
<UndiFineD> congrats people for finding a core team
<godbyk> UndiFineD: Thanks!
<godbyk> UndiFineD: Could you tell me a little more about the meeting minutes to posted to the ubuntu-manual list?
<godbyk> I didn't read through all of them and only noticed a passing reference to the Ubuntu Manual Project, but didn't know what it was in reference to.
<UndiFineD> it was in reference to cassidy james his older manual
<UndiFineD> he offered it to ubuntu-manual in the past, but was rejected
<godbyk> He did?  I don't recall that.
<UndiFineD> his words :)
<UndiFineD> I dont know the details
<godbyk> Fair enough. :)
<godbyk> Huh.  Apparently Cassidy lives just 45 miles south of me.  I guess I can just drive down and find out what's going on sometime. :-)
<UndiFineD> hah
<godbyk> That's a pretty surprising coincidence given that I live in the middle of Iowa.  No one else lives in Iowa. :-)
<UndiFineD> appeartly the state is not yours alone
<godbyk> I'll have to fix that.
<UndiFineD> ok ...
<godbyk> If he misses the next meeting, now you'll know why. ;-)
<UndiFineD> must I warn cassidy there is an murderer on the loose in his state ?
<godbyk> Just let him know it'll be the only other person with an Ubuntu logo on his laptop.  There can't be too many of us, I'd guess.
<UndiFineD> heh
<UndiFineD> attending an UGJ ?
<godbyk> I'm not sure yet.
<godbyk> It'll depend on how busy things get at work.
<UndiFineD> does it solve bug #1 ?
<manualbot> UndiFineD: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1)
<godbyk> Nope, 'fraid not.
<MichealH> Hi all
<jenkins> download wuickshot and use http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-10/[ump]10-10.qsproj to help out for the 10.10 screenshots
<c7p> hey jenkins, how are you ?
<jenkins> hello c7p, I am good thanks, you?
<c7p> i'm also fine
<jenkins> I thought the meeting was tonight :( realised i got it wrong
<c7p> it's ok
<c7p> we got an Editor in Chief now, we have a marketing team... the project seems to start working again
<c7p> jenkins: how can i get quickshot ? through it's ppa ? or is there any deb file available ?
 * jenkins gets the ppa page
<jenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release
<c7p> thx
<jenkins> make sure you go edit > user credit and fill it in. we haev a bug that  does nto make it pop up atuomatically
 * jenkins tries to fix it
<c7p> ok, my pc lags at the moment ... actually software center freezes my pc
<c7p> i hate it !
<jenkins> is your pc a low spec of is softwar centre bad?
<c7p> both :P
<c7p> but the center is the prob now
<c7p> what's the name of debian installer on previous releases ?
<c7p> i mean the programm that helps the user to install a programm from a deb package
 * jenkins thinks i know it
<jenkins> gdebi?
<c7p> yeah thx
<c7p> brb
<c7p2> jenkins: back
<jenkins> hello
<c7p2> what am i doing now ?
<jenkins> if you go to the accessories menu and launchin quickshot
<jenkins> *launch
<c7p2> yeah i have done all these and credit too
<MichealH> Hi all
<jenkins> hello MichealH
<c7p2> hey MichealH
<jenkins> c7p2 so you need to paste  http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-10/[ump]10-10.qsproj  into the bottom box on the front page and click "Get started"
<c7p2> done
<c7p2> ah
<jenkins> do you have a list of screen shots?
<c7p2> there is no screenshot, i capture it ?
<MichealH> :)
<c7p2> yeah the list exists
<MichealH> Hi jasono , c7p (2) :P
<jenkins> choose a screenshot and then click capture
<c7p2> MichealH i am tasting quickshot and then we will talk, thx
<c7p2> jenkins: ok
<jasono> Hi MichealH
<MichealH> Okay, c7p2
<c7p2> jenkins i captured one screenshot, the first in list
<c7p2> you may check it
<jenkins> c7p: did you do 02-appearance-preferences ?
<jenkins> in english
<c7p> yes
<c7p> 02 is the second in list ?
<jenkins> for some reason the window buttons are not active http://imagebin.org/145220 ? any idea why. )2- is the chapter
<jenkins> *02 is the cahpter
<c7p> i don't know :/
<jenkins> can you try again please?
<c7p> i think when i mazimize the window the window buttons became like this
<jenkins> try maximising then clicking the window to check it is active
<c7p> jenkins ok, actually now i have something todo, in this week i hope that i will capture the most screenshots
<c7p> thx for pushing the screenshot stuff :)
<jenkins> no problem pleasse capture lots, I need to add the install screens as well. but will need to make a custom cd
<c7p> :/ i don't know if i will make it with install screens but i will find a solution, maybe jasono and MichealH can help
 * c7p brb
<jenkins> install screens are easy I use to spin custom live cds to do it.
<jenkins> who rewrote the install chapter for 10.10 with the new installer?
<daker> hello
<daker> jenkins, pls give me the link .qsprojec
<jenkins> daker http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-10/[ump]10-10.qsproj  in is the url you need to put in quickshot and https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release is the ppa
<daker> ok
 * c7p back
<c7p> hey Muscovy, did you wrote the install chapter ?
<Muscovy> Uh I think I edited it.
<Muscovy> Only piece I really "wrote" was a chunk of the software centre.
<c7p> ok thx
<MichealH> Need to go...
<MichealH> Talk tommorow :)
<MichealH> Okay?
<MichealH> Or leave me a /msg
<c7p> good night all :)
<jenkins> night all
<godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard. How's it going?
<ChrisWoollard> alright
<ChrisWoollard> yourself
<ChrisWoollard> i see we have a new eic
<godbyk> Pretty good.
<godbyk> Yep. New editor in chief and a marketing/recruiting team.
<ChrisWoollard> What's the eic's experience?
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/editor-in-chief-01-Fosburgh.txt and http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/editor-in-chief-01-Fosburgh.odt are what he sent us.
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-19
<CarstenG> Hi at all.
<hannie> hey CarstenG
<CarstenG> I saw your email about the screenshots.
<hannie> ah, yes, did you make them for raring already?
<CarstenG> I did just these screenshots which are in the branch.
<CarstenG> The others are still to do.
<CarstenG> I will wait until the GUI freeze
<hannie> What do you think about having authors/editors do their chapter's screenshots?
<hannie> That is what we did in previous versions, didn't we?
<CarstenG> Sure, they can do it, of course.
<CarstenG> I will have only a look on them if they are ok according our guideline.
<hannie> And should we remind them in the editor's phase? And offer help if needed?
<CarstenG> Jepp.
<CarstenG> :-)
<hannie> Ok, I will make a note of it
<hannie> Did you read the added sections on PPAs and Wine?
<CarstenG> no, not yet.
<hannie> In Advanced Topics
<hannie> I like it, but sometimes I wonder if we should make a special manual for advanced users in the future
<tacorwin> What is the deadline date for 13.04 Manual?
<CarstenG> Hi tacorwin
<CarstenG> See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/raring
<CarstenG> here is our release plan for the manual
<tacorwin> I contributed to the Wine section of the manual, should i add my name to the credits, or no?
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-24
<tacorwin--> Could someone help me with a problem?
#ubuntu-manual 2016-03-21
<jaack000> Hi, I am a student from Germany and would like to get involved in it. Have basic knowledge  in Python and willing to invest 10 to 20 hrs per week on the project. Please let me know if it is possible to join. Thx:)
