#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-11
<jk2> ok guys
<jk2> setting up ftp using gproftpd
<kishan> hmm
<jk2> no idea how to set user account
<jk2> anyone help ?
<jrib> hi
<jk2> hey
<jrib> I thought you just wanted to mount a partition?
<jk2> yeah go with that
<jrib> heh
<jk2> cos I am trying to get the ftp drive pointing to another hd
<jrib> what is the parition that you want to mount?
<jk2> media/disk-1
<jk2> onto /home/FTP-shared/download
<jrib> so it's already mounted as /media/disk-1 then
<jk2> yeah
<jk2> well if an external drive is "mounted" as such yes
<jk2> ok I sorted it out
<jk2> easy as pie - you have to go through the command lines in gproftpd :|
<jk2> wow I almost learned something today
<jk2> :)
<jrib> great
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-12
<dawn_chorus> is there an effective difference between 'sudo sh -c echo "string" >> file' and 'echo "string" | sudo tee file'?
<dawn_chorus> oh wait.
<crdlb> yes
<dawn_chorus> i see it myself.
<dawn_chorus> d'oh
<crdlb> you can tee -a for >>
<dawn_chorus> ok.
<dawn_chorus> that would make the commands pretty much equivalent?
<crdlb> afaik yes, but the second is what I'd use
<dawn_chorus> just a personal preference?
<crdlb> well it's more efficient since you're not launching another shell
<dawn_chorus> that's true.
<dawn_chorus> thank you.
<andrewzab83> can anyone help me with a terminal
<woot> I have a nvidia nforce3 winmodem and have no clue how to use dialup, plz teach me?
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-13
<jrib> drizztzrevenge: I still have no clue what you did
<drizztzrevenge> heh okay
<drizztzrevenge> so i tried to change the root user directory to home/root using the users and groups gui component
<drizztzrevenge> and it looked like it worked
<drizztzrevenge> but it didn't actually at the system level, my ubuntu login just thinks it did i think
<drizztzrevenge> but i dont have synaptic installed
<drizztzrevenge> so i dont know how to fix this
<drizztzrevenge> er wait excuse
<jrib> what user are you logging in as?
<drizztzrevenge> it will install
<drizztzrevenge> but it won't let me run any of its programs because it cant use /root to create its config place
<drizztzrevenge> my account
<jrib> what's the name?
<jrib> for simplicity's sake
<drizztzrevenge> rickjames
<jrib> alright, so you changed the home directory for rickjames to /root?
<drizztzrevenge> nope
<drizztzrevenge> i changed the directory for /root to /home/root -.-
<jrib> that doesn't make sense
<drizztzrevenge> i know
<drizztzrevenge> now i do anyway
<drizztzrevenge> but everytime i try to run synaptic it tells me it cant create a file in /home/root
<drizztzrevenge> which is its config file i assume
<jrib> ok, are you able to get a shell?
<drizztzrevenge> yeah, i use console
<drizztzrevenge> konsole
<drizztzrevenge> excuse me
<jrib> what is the output of this command: getent passwd rickjames
<drizztzrevenge> rickjames:x:1000:1000:RickJames,,,:/home/rickjames:/bin/bash
<drizztzrevenge> y?
<jrib> how about: getent passwd root
<drizztzrevenge> root:x:0:0:root:/home/root:/bin/bash
<jrib> ok, I see
<drizztzrevenge> yah
<jrib> it used to be /root
<jrib> why did you do this by the way?
<drizztzrevenge> uhm....because i am nub and was experimenting
<drizztzrevenge> i then read an article that basically said its impossible
<drizztzrevenge> :-/
<drizztzrevenge> i haven't really done anything to make my computer freak out in a couple days, i'm learning how to maintain this crazy system pretty well
<jrib> ah ok, well you should play in a virtual machine
<drizztzrevenge> yeah...i noticed...
<jrib> can you do  gksudo gedit /etc/passwd  ?
<drizztzrevenge> nope
<drizztzrevenge> (gedit:9232): libgnomevfs-WARNING **: Unable to create ~/.gnome2 directory: No such file or directory
<drizztzrevenge> Could not create per-user gnome configuration directory `/home/root/.gnome2/': No such file or directory
<jrib> ok
<drizztzrevenge> i'm sure you see the problem here then? lol
<jrib> try:  sudo nano /etc/passwd
<drizztzrevenge> yeah it opened up soemthing
<jrib> alright, change the /home/root to /root
<drizztzrevenge> kay. how do i save it?
<drizztzrevenge> or do i just exit?
<jrib> ctrl-o to save
<jrib> ctrl-x to exit
<jrib> check for mistakes!
<drizztzrevenge> so it should say "root:x:0:0:root:0/root:/bin/bash" ?
<drizztzrevenge> er wait
<drizztzrevenge> so it should say "root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash" ?
<jrib> yes
<drizztzrevenge> kay
<drizztzrevenge> now i should restart?
<jrib> I don't think you need to
<drizztzrevenge> cool thanks alot man
<jrib> might be a good idea to restart anyway though in case some stuff failed
<drizztzrevenge> yeah for sure, i' gonna
<drizztzrevenge> bye!
<jrib> bye
<Pirate_Hunter> here i am
<jrib> hi
<jrib> less traffic here
<Pirate_Hunter> hi
<Pirate_Hunter> i know much better
<Pirate_Hunter> so i need to comment everything after line 20 will do so, but cna u tell me why
<jrib> because you are getting a lot of errors, so we will start by making sure that the important stuff works, then work on the extra stuff
<Pirate_Hunter> kk np
<Pirate_Hunter> im doing it right now
<Pirate_Hunter> kk don
<Pirate_Hunter> done
<jrib> ok, now:  sudo apt-get update
<Pirate_Hunter> no errors this time
<jrib> good
<Pirate_Hunter> k
<jrib> now add the extra ones you want -- do you really need all those?
* jrib wonders why mpd is not cooperating...
<Pirate_Hunter> I dont know what they do? i just ticked them all
<jrib> ok, then you don't need them :)
<Pirate_Hunter> lol
<Pirate_Hunter> but you cna tell me something
<jrib> if I know
<Pirate_Hunter> i know you said to stick to windows for my work
<jrib> me?
<Pirate_Hunter> but I want to integrate everything to ubuntu so i would liek if i could steal some of your time and tell me how to create a simple vpn connection
<Pirate_Hunter> you still here or are you gone? no way to find out
<jrib> ah well i've never done that so I can't really help, try: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=vpn&titlesearch=Titles or ask in #ubuntu
<Pirate_Hunter> jrib np thanx for your help my latest update was screensaver hack, im wondering how does that keep my comp clean
<bolloxmcgee> jrib:yo
<jrib> hi
<jrib> what output do you get when you try the command you said did not work?
<bolloxmcgee> wget http://janvitus.interfree.it/ubuntu/2C4C84CC.gpg -O- | sudo apt-key add -
<bolloxmcgee> after i put in that i get
<bolloxmcgee> Resolving janvitus.interfree.it... 213.158.72.68
<bolloxmcgee> Connecting to janvitus.interfree.it|213.158.72.68|:80...
<bolloxmcgee> connected.
<bolloxmcgee> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
<bolloxmcgee> Length: 4,460 (4.4K) [application/octet-stream] 
<bolloxmcgee> 100%[====================================>]  4,460         --.--K/s
<bolloxmcgee> 22:11:33 (43.51 KB/s) - `-' saved [4460/4460] 
<bolloxmcgee> OK
<jrib> yes, that means it worked
<jrib> use http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org in the future please
<jrib> proceed to the next step
<bolloxmcgee> then i put in sudo apt-get install nspluginwrapper
<jrib> that's not the next step
<bolloxmcgee> kk
<bolloxmcgee> whats the next step?
<jrib> you still have to finish adding the repository
<jrib> the instructions are in english if you scroll down
<bolloxmcgee> where is my sources.list?
<jrib> open them with this command: gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<bolloxmcgee> i think ive got it
<bolloxmcgee> i'll pastebin what i get in a second
<bolloxmcgee> i put the reposotries in the list, now im getting nspluginwrapper
<bolloxmcgee> ive done it all but it still isnt working
<bolloxmcgee> its up on pastebin
<jrib> bolloxmcgee: url?
<bolloxmcgee> jrib: i still dont have write permissions to the /usr/lib/firefox/plugins directory
<jrib> you don't need it
<bolloxmcgee> what url?
<jrib> to the pastebin
<bolloxmcgee> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25446/
<jrib> yeah it installed fine
<jrib> use ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<bolloxmcgee> but the flash player still isnt working....its corrupt
<jrib> put extract the flash stuff there
<jrib> s/put//
<bolloxmcgee> srry man what do you mean?
<jrib> did you download the flash tar.gz?
<bolloxmcgee> yup
<bolloxmcgee> should i just extract it all straight into /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins?
<jrib> then extract flashplayer.xpt  and libflashplayer.so to ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<bolloxmcgee> could i not just extract all the files to there?
<jrib> then you will get junk
<bolloxmcgee> kk
<bolloxmcgee> i tried extracting just flashplayer.xpt to the /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins direcotry, but im told again i dont have permission
<bolloxmcgee> im using the GUI btw...
<jrib> extract to ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<jrib> does that make sense?
<bolloxmcgee>  ~/.mozilla/plugins/ <-- that exactly?
<jrib> yeah, ~ means /home/YOUR_USERNAME
<jrib> hmm
<bolloxmcgee> jrib: that still isnt working, i still dont have the write privilages.....
<jrib> what is the result of this command:
<jrib> ls -ld ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<bolloxmcgee>  No such file or directory
<jrib> do this: mkdir ~/.mozilla/plugins
<bolloxmcgee> done
<jrib> try extracting again
<bolloxmcgee> kk
<bolloxmcgee> that should be in my home directory right?
<jrib> yes, to ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<bolloxmcgee> well its not
<bolloxmcgee> all thats in my home directory is
<jrib> go to view -> show hidden files
<jrib> anything that starts with a '.' is hidden
<bolloxmcgee> righty-o
<bolloxmcgee> there there
<bolloxmcgee> still all corrupted....
<jrib> what does "all corrupted" mean?
<bolloxmcgee> like, it shows the flash box, but the buttons are all over the place and dont work
<bolloxmcgee> and there is absoloutely no playback....
<jrib> you used nspluginwrapper to convert flash already?
<bolloxmcgee> how..?
<bolloxmcgee> ohh yea
<jrib> what is the output of: ls ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<bolloxmcgee> i installed Gnash SWF viewer
<bolloxmcgee> flashplayer.xpt  libflashplayer.so
<bolloxmcgee> thats the output
<jrib> you haven't run nspluginwrapper yet
<bolloxmcgee> ok
<jrib> the command is on the janvitus page
<bolloxmcgee> nspluginwrapper -v -a -i
<bolloxmcgee> that?
<jrib> yes
<bolloxmcgee> done
<jrib> what is the output of: ls ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<bolloxmcgee> lashplayer.xpt  libflashplayer.so  npwrapper.libflashplayer.so
<jrib> good
<bolloxmcgee> should it now work?
<jrib> you probably want to remove gnash and restart your browser now
<bolloxmcgee> ok kool
<bolloxmcgee> gnash is now gone
<bolloxmcgee> jrib: it works!!!!!
<bolloxmcgee> thanks so much man!!!
<jrib> np
<bolloxmcgee> i know i am a complete n00bie
<bolloxmcgee> lol
<jrib> you'll get the hang of it
<jrib> with time
<bolloxmcgee> lol, yea, ahh i should be studying for my junior certificate right now, but this is more fun....lol
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-14
<mok0> Can I start with a question?
<lionel> Ok, so let's start MOTU Q/A session!
<lionel> I hope there are some MOTU arround:)
<lionel> mok0: please do !
<illovae> hello
<mok0> I am wandering about the name of a library package. Lintian wants it to end in $major.$minor
<mok0> but many places in the docs and in practice only $major is appended
<mok0> It should not be necessary to include $minor in the name since a change in that does not mean a change in API
<mok0> Am I making myself clear??
<lionel> mok0: yes, sorry
<lionel> I am not a library packaging expert, I have always used on $major in my libs. Could you pastebin the warning please?
<mok0> I renamed my package to suit lintian, so I can't quickly regenerate the lintian messag
<mok0> e
<mok0> But now the name of my library is ugly:
<mok0> libwulf2.5.0 is the package name
<mok0> and with version it becomes libwulf2.5.0_2.5.0 :-)
<mok0> I originally had libwulf2
<lionel> arf, yes, not nice :)
<mok0> But I had to bow to our lintian overlord :-)
<lionel> mok0: I'am sorry for my lack on knowledgy on this aspect, I would advice your or to uplaod to REVU and get it reviewed by a more experienced MOTU who will give you advices, or send a mail on the MOTU mentors ML
<mok0> OK, I could do that
<mok0> Could be a bug in lintian :-)
<mok0> In fact, linda disagrees with lintian on that point, too
<mok0> and it also disagrees with this:
<mok0> http://plan99.net/~mike/writing-shared-libraries.html
<mok0> where is says: "The minor version is not reflected in the soname."
<lionel> mok0: yes, I agree. All the libraries only reflect major (for exemple gtk)
<lionel> Are there any other question for this session of MOTU Q/A?
<mok0> Can we leave class, then? ;-)
<lionel> :)
<lionel> I'm still arround, so If anybody have a question feel free to ask
<lionel> it's free, and all questions are welcome
<lionel> event "what's a MOTU" :)
<porthose> yea what's the secret to using po-debconf
<lionel> what do you mean by "secret"?
<porthose> I tried to use it in my package (following the man page) and it just won't work for me when I do debconf-updatepo it laughs at me
<lionel> porthose: do you have a precise error?
<porthose> no let me try the process again will post on ubuntu-motu so class can end.
<mok0> I have a question
<lionel> mok0: you again?:)
<lionel> mok0: please, ask your question :)
<mok0> What is the standard place to put pyton modules? I am used to putting stuff in /usr/lib/pythonx.x/site-packages but when python is upgraded it gets buried
<lionel> oh yes, you should not put any more packages in directories
<lionel> you should now used or python-central or python-support for this
<mok0> Errr python-central?
<lionel> all is explained in the New Python Policy on Debian Wiki :
<lionel> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<mok0> Great thx
<lionel> you're welcome
<mok0> What about the situation where an application provides a python interface?
<mok0> (of course I can read the reference)
<mok0> Ah, I see, there are different dirs under /usr/lib/python-support, I guess thats the place?
<lionel> yes
<mok0> Very nifty
<lionel> but python-support automagically put the files at the right place
<mok0> OK, great
<lionel> You do not need any more package for python 2.4, python 2.5
<lionel> it done on the fly
<mok0> Amazing
<fatsheep> does anyone know when the next classes are going to be held here?
<dholbach> fatsheep: we'll decide on that in tomorrow's MOTU meeting
<dholbach> I will suggest in two weeks same time
<dholbach> but let's see what we will decide
<fatsheep> ok thanks
<dholbach> anytime
<mok0> fatsheep: keep a watchful eye on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<lionel> dholbach: do you plan to send a reminder for tomorrow meeting?
<dholbach> lionel: yes, adding to todo list
<dholbach> thanks lionel
<fernando> hey all
<lionel> dholbach: A mail from me may have less impact, but I can do that if your TODO is tooooooooo long :)
<dholbach> lionel: no no, that's fine - I'm just about to have a meeting, that's why I added it to the list
<dholbach> lionel: I'll take care of it
* dholbach hugs lionel
* lionel hugs dholbach
<dholbach> :-)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-15
<n2diy> Sanne:?
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-10
<Mamarok> this line is just a test
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-11
<Anon007_> hi if I remove my nvidia graphics card and replace it with a better one will it work ok without having to do anything or what do i need to do please thanks
<Anon007_> hello?
<aeGIs> Classy
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-12
<tim__> hi
<aeGIs> back
<visualdeception> is ubuntu-classroom having a meeting at 2000 UTC still?
<nalioth> visualdeception: meeting for which project?
<visualdeception> ubuntu-classroom...it was in a email for the group
<nalioth> well, if it said there would be a meeting, unless you got something that cancelled it to that groups ML, you're just confusing the majority of us
<visualdeception> yea, sorry about that.
<visualdeception> pleia2: ping
<pleia2> visualdeception: hey, yes :)
<visualdeception> lol
<visualdeception> ok, whew thought I had misread it
<pleia2> wait
<pleia2> it's at 23:00
<pleia2> For everyone who *can* show up, lets go with a meeting tomorrow
<pleia2> evening to discuss:
<pleia2> Thursday, June 12, 2008 at 23:00:00
<visualdeception> ok, sounds good
<pleia2> ^^ from the email
<pleia2> in 3 hours :)
<visualdeception> ahh cool, misread the email...
<atlas95> salut !
<atlas95> quelqu'un pour m'aider a debugger mon premier vrai script bash?
<atlas95> j'ai un probleme de " ' `
<atlas95> re: voila j'ai fais un post, quelqu'un peut il y jeter un oeil svp ;) http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1850826#p1850826
<rzr> atlas95: salut t pas forcement au bon endroit ici
<rzr> atlas95: I look at it anyway
<rzr> atlas95: use $HOME
 * pleia2 pokes head in
 * pleia2 wave sto BLusk 
<BLusk> Hi, pleia2!
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-13
<pleia2> alrighty, who is here for the -classroom meeting?
<pleia2> 'lo NthDegree, ChinnoDog
 * apachelogger_ is 
<pleia2> yay :)
<apachelogger_> in a forced kind of way
<apachelogger_> :P
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> alright, so others can catch up when/if they wander in
<pleia2> this team had a nice run in 2006, died out in 2007, has had a couple resurrection attempts since then
<pleia2> our page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<pleia2> so, lets try this again
<pleia2> last time around we tried to use a hiveminder tool to organize tasks, which I didn't have time to use, and I suspect it made the entry bar a bit high
<pleia2> so I think what we need is to define a bunch of tasks on the mailing list & wiki, and get people assigned
<apachelogger_> emonkey: welcome to the meeting
<pleia2> and we probably want to start slow, the attempts in the past have been a bit ambitious
<pleia2> yeah that's all I've got :)
<pleia2> so we have tasks on the site:
<pleia2>     *
<pleia2> Being an instructor
<pleia2> Promotion: submit to fridge, UWN and teams that might be interested in specific topics. The marketing group has its own page for coordination.
 * nalioth waves
<pleia2> Keeping this wiki up to date
<pleia2> hey nalioth :)
<pleia2> Posting logs
<NthDegree> hello nalioth, long time no speak =]
<pleia2> Preparing notes/blog entries of sessions (or encourage instructors to do this), see ClassroomTranscripts for examples
<pleia2> these are all still valid
<pleia2> finding instructors and projects to use -classroom is a task we need covered too
<NthDegree> pleia2, we need to verify the Transcripts are still valid
<pleia2> I really like that MOTU has sessions here, we need more of that
<pleia2> visualdeception: welcome!
<visualdeception> sorry I'm late
<NthDegree> that is a critical thing for newer Ubuntu versions have different ways of doing things
<pleia2> NthDegree: right, they have dates on them though and we should make a point to note that
<visualdeception> have I missed anything?
<pleia2> lemme catch you up in PM
<pleia2> there
<pleia2> so, thoughts?
<visualdeception> I like using the wiki/mailing list for tasks etc
<BLusk> You may want to focus on LTS versions at first because the materials you develop will be useful longer.
<pleia2> BLusk: and luckily we're on an LTS release right now! :)
<BLusk> Exactly. :D
<pleia2> I wonder if once we assign roles (or some of us do tons at first until we can delegate) then our first step should be getting teams to do regular sessions like MOTU
<NthDegree> also don't be tied to a single version/flavour of Ubuntu
<pleia2> once we have regular activity we can start scheduling classes, slowly as we can handle it
<pleia2> NthDegree: yeah, I'm hoping we won't have that problem - admins of the project are Xubuntu and Kubuntu people, and there are plenty of vanilla Ubuntu folks out there :)
<NthDegree> also keep in mind Kubuntu is not LTS
<NthDegree> KDE 3.5.x version is 18 months
<NthDegree> KDE 4 version is 6 months or so
<NthDegree> (KDE 4 is a preview)
<pleia2> "remix"
<pleia2> yeah
<visualdeception> I think we need to keep getting the word out that there is more to open source than being a programmer
<visualdeception> seems I have to fight that all the time
<pleia2> visualdeception: *nod*
<pleia2> we need a marketing person
<visualdeception> I was trying to do that in the last try to bring this group back
<pleia2> yeah
<NthDegree> I have an idea
<pleia2> are you familiar enough with fridge and UWN to take on submitting stuff?
<pleia2> @ visualdeception
<NthDegree> it's a bit of a weird one though
<pleia2> NthDegree: go for it
<NthDegree> why not have days of the week where there is a specific theme for the whole day
<NthDegree> we have dedicated teams answer questions on those themes
<pleia2> the trouble with this is ambitiousness
<visualdeception> I've had one thing sent to them, and it was published
<pleia2> it was suggested the last time around to have something similar - but it was more like each week had a theme
<NthDegree> then we only have specific classes when we are sure they are going to be successful
<BLusk> pleia2, mind if I summarize what I've seen thus far?
<pleia2> visualdeception: good enough for me :) a task you'd be interested in?
<visualdeception> sure
<pleia2> BLusk: go ahead
<pleia2> yay!
<BLusk> ***
<BLusk> TEAMS:
<BLusk> Instructors
<BLusk> Course Development
<BLusk> Marketing
<BLusk> TASKS:
<BLusk> Change perception that programmers are all there is to Open Source
<BLusk> Develop course material based on LTS releases
<BLusk> Obtain instructors
<BLusk> Schedule classes
<BLusk> ***
 * pleia2 nods
<BLusk> Anything missing?
<pleia2> now, ubuntu-training has actual course material
<NthDegree> I have one to add
<NthDegree> get LUG involvement
<pleia2> which is a canonical sponsored initative (and crazy awesome)
<pleia2> defining where classroom ends and where training picks up is important
<pleia2> ubuntu-classroom focuses on IRC and posting of IRC session results to the web
<BLusk> So, training material is provided by ubuntu-training?
<BLusk> Ah.
<pleia2> ubuntu-training develops free course material that canonical uses for paid training sessions, and others are free to use it if they don't make money from it
<BLusk> So, the entire course development could be easily placed on unbuntu-training
<pleia2> I've worked some with the -training folks, we could use some of their material to develop -classroom sessions
<BLusk> Leaving only acquiring instructors.
<visualdeception> we should probably work with them to work on clear cut transition
<BLusk> And marketing.
<pleia2> BLusk: some, I'd like to see much more community-related stuff beyond what -training provides
<NthDegree> marketing is something that can come naturally
<NthDegree> "hey -classroom has a session going on all about this in 5 minutes, why not have a look?"
<pleia2> visualdeception: agreed, I have a dialog open with dinda on this issue, I'll snag her again soon
<visualdeception> cool
<pleia2> NthDegree: without being spammy ;)
<NthDegree> pleia2, well I mean if a user in #ubuntu happens to want help with something that is in our theme
<pleia2> NthDegree: I'd clear it with the -ops before such an announcement
<NthDegree> it's like extended spoonfeeding + training and they'll love the care and attention and hang around
<BLusk> Basically, suggesting it to an individual = OK, bulk marketing = check with ops first.
<pleia2> anyway, fridge, UWN, blogs and the like are OK
<pleia2> mailing lists that have expressed interest, cool (like ubuntu-women
<NthDegree> BLusk, i'd never "bulk market", it backfires
<NthDegree> word of mouth will be the most powerful tool
<BLusk> I'm referring specifically to making an announcement to an entire channel/group of channels.
<NthDegree> ah
<BLusk> (Which is still bulk marketing, even if the lesser end of the spectrum)
<visualdeception> another thing I think that would help is if some in the classroom group were willing to teach sessions
<BLusk> Instruct the instructors.
<pleia2> visualdeception: yeah, I expect I'll be doing some, and I can nag nixternal into it too
<visualdeception> yea
<NthDegree> I may be able to do some generic bits on the odd occasion
<pleia2> nixternal was really involved with the first successful classrom iniative, before he went and got all busy and famous ;)
<NthDegree> like AppArmor
<visualdeception> lol
<NthDegree> that works the same everywhere and is easy to use
<NthDegree> not that useful on the desktop but it's a neat thing users should be aware of and know how to use all the same
<visualdeception> we are more worried about getting people to try and give back to the community right?
<pleia2> I think we can have a balance
<visualdeception> ok
<pleia2> some "how to use ubuntu" some "how to help ubuntu"
<pleia2> + sessions by teams
<visualdeception> cool
<NthDegree> some could be a form of attractive advertising
<NthDegree> like charities do
<pleia2> hm?
<NthDegree> like "Why *you* should join the Artwork team?"
<NthDegree> err minus the ?
<pleia2> heh, yeah
<NthDegree> but you get the idea, having the artwork team say what they do and what makes them cool
<pleia2> we can suggest such things to the teas
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> visualdeception: do you have links to those old logos that were made?
<visualdeception> let me check
<visualdeception> http://linux.dudenhofer.net/ubuntuclassroom.png
<visualdeception> that was the basic one
<visualdeception> and actually the only one I made
<pleia2> I forget who had the little chalkboard
<pleia2> I'm gonna have to go back in the mailing list archives and dig up slogans too
<visualdeception> I think I was looking for it and never found it
<pleia2> #
<pleia2> Review'd slogan submissions from the mailing list
<pleia2>     *
<pleia2>       Decided to go with learn something new every day
<pleia2> (from a past meeting)
<BLusk> Heh heh...
<visualdeception> sounds good...
<BLusk> Why'd I just get this picture of a video of some guy in old safety glasses in front of a small chalkboard with the words "Ubuntu Safety" on the board?
<visualdeception> I can do some tinkering with that and the logo
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=example.png
<pleia2> there it is :)
<visualdeception> cool
<pleia2> visualdeception: cool, so maybe go with what you have now, but with the new slogan and the little chalkboard at the bottom :)
<pleia2> and make it buttony - I don't know how to do images
<pleia2> but sorta raised feeling with some boarder
<pleia2> border
<visualdeception> I'll see what I can do
<visualdeception> doesnt sound to difficult
<visualdeception> I might do some variations on that as well
<pleia2> great :)
<pleia2> just go ahead and post them to the list when you're done
<visualdeception> ok
<visualdeception>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?ac â n0p
<visualdeception>                           tion=AttachFile&do=get&target=exampl â nalioth
<visualdeception> woops
<visualdeception> thats nice
 * nalioth waves
<pleia2> hehe
<visualdeception> lol
<visualdeception> stinking middle mouse button
 * visualdeception grins
<pleia2> I think we're good now
<pleia2> have a plan to move forward :)
<BLusk> All right, so basically the meeting is done?
<pleia2> I'd say so, unless anyone has anything else to add
<BLusk> All right, here's my notes...
<BLusk> ***
<BLusk> TEAMS:
<BLusk> 1. Instructors
<BLusk> 2. Course Development (Primarily Ubuntu-Training, but Community contributions accepted)
<BLusk> 3. Marketing
<BLusk> TASKS:
<BLusk> 1. Change perception that programmers are all there is to Open Source
<BLusk> 2. Develop course material based on LTS releases
<BLusk> 3. Obtain instructors
<BLusk> 4. Schedule classes
<BLusk> 5. Reach out to user groups
<BLusk> 6. Logo update/adjustments (Assigned to visualdeception)
<BLusk> PRIORITIES:
<BLusk> 1. Balance the goals of "How to Use Ubuntu" and "How to Help Ubuntu"
<BLusk> ***
<visualdeception> is that going on the wiki?
<pleia2> yeah, I might tweak it a bit
<pleia2> thanks BLusk :)
<BLusk> No problem.  Hope it helps.
 * BLusk bails for dinner
<pleia2> dinda: if you're interested, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Meetings/Minutes2008Jun12
<pleia2> just finished up about 40 minutes ago
<persia> Is there a reference to the wiki or ML discussion that sparked this?  I've read the meeting log, but don't understand it.
<pleia2> persia: hm? we just haven't had a real meeting since March
<pleia2> so we're getting back to it
<dinda> argh, fell asleep
<dinda>  forgot to do the whole UTC to my time thing
<dinda> pleia2:  did I miss the UW meeting too?
<pleia2> dinda: yes :(
<pleia2> if I post UW logs, wanna read through and do the summary?
<dinda> yes, please
<persia> pleia2: Ah, then I'm missing even more context :)  Who is "we"?
<pleia2> persia: the ubuntu-classroom team
<persia> Oh.  I didn't know there was one.
 * persia hunts for a wiki page to learn more
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<persia> That looks great.  Thanks for sharing.  I had previously thought this was for open week and MOTU School: I didn't know it was organised.
<persia> Is there a reservations system?  I've led a few sessions in here when it happened to be quiet, but would prefer to avoid any collisions in the future.
<pleia2> persia: we're progressing that way, I'd suggest signing up for the list and mention stuff you had in mind
<persia> pleia2: OK.  I'll do that.  My sessions to date have either been packaging tutorials or guidance on reading stacktraces, so not quite in line with the core focus.
<pleia2> persia: there isn't really a "core focus" per se, I think we want to branch out into all sorts of areas, from how-to to community involvement, beginner to advanced
<persia> pleia2: Are you also integrated with MOTU School?
<pleia2> persia: not really, UOW does their stuff here, MOTU does their classes here, but we don't have oversight over that - we're trying to get more MOTU School type groups to use this channel, coordinate it, and run our own classes
<persia> pleia2: Ah, so the ubuntu-classroom team is more about 1) coordinating the channel and 2) providing user-focus classes, rather than being a central Ubuntu Education coordinator?
<pleia2> persia: something like that, yes :)
<persia> OK.  Thanks for the detailed explanations.
<persia> (and, for the record, I'm not certain that there's enough educational activity to require central coordination yet)
<pleia2> persia: (I agree)
<AboSamoor> #python
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> Flannel: So here I am! lol
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> Flannel: It kicked up some fuss about a password! :(
<Flannel> right, the gksu will require your password
<Flannel> just type your user password
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> Flannel: Error "Failed to run gedit/etc/network/interfaces: Wrong password
<Flannel> Chiselhuk_Plus1: Did you use your user password?
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> yes, there's only one password on this clean install!
<Flannel> Try again... make sure capslock is off, etc.
 * Chiselhuk_Plus1 is about to give up!
 * Chiselhuk_Plus1 is not blonde!! lol
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> capslock is so not on....any other ideas?
<Flannel> You just used this password to log in, right?
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> yes
<Flannel> blah.  Ok, lets try the command line, it'll give us more familiar error messages.  in gnome-terminal, sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-14
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> okay, I'm there, now wot?
<Flannel> auto lo\n iface lo inet loopback\n\nauto eth0\niface eth0 inet dhcp
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> type that? lol
<Flannel> Chiselhuk_Plus1: Is this dialup?
<Flannel> Or DSL
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> DSL
<Flannel> Chiselhuk_Plus1: so, you have to dial in?
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> nope, always on....and would u believe AOL too! lol
<Flannel> Alright, so we don't have to deal with ppp.  Yeah, make that the contents.
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> This pc is connected 2 the same router....am running Gutsy here
<Flannel> "\n"s become carriage returns (new lines)
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> Do I delete all that's there?
<Flannel> Just put #s in front of it, to comment it out
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> I'm really lost, sorry.
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> So I should put a #s in front of every line or just at the 1st line
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> Flannel: I spent over 12 hours fighting with this thru the night, am ditching it for now, will phone a geeky Linux friend tmr!
<Chiselhuk_Plus1> Thanks for your help, I'm ditching 'n running for now. :)
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-15
 * lejon pokes jrib
<jrib> hi
<lejon> Hi there
<lejon> jrib, could you here explain a little more about how ln works? I was going to try to make a symlink to trash so I dont have to go through /.local/share/trash/ to empty it
<jrib> sure
<jrib> ln -s TARGET NAME
<jrib> TARGET is the path relative to where the symlink is created
<jrib> and NAME is what the path to the symlink itself is
<lejon> so for that trash bin to be located in /home/lejon/trash I would have to write ln -s /.local/share/trash /home/lejon/trash?
<jrib> so to create ~/trash pointing to ~/.local/share/Trash/, you could do: ln -s .local/share/Trash ~/trash
<lejon> ah yeah thats right ~corresponds to home directory
<lejon> so I could create a symlink and use it as a part of a script too? almost like a pointer in programming?
<jrib> lejon: sure kind of
<lejon> jrib cool, seems like they are really useful, they work like shortcuts in windows but without the limitation of it having to be a folder or a executable?
<jrib> lejon: right, you can point to any file, including files on other partitions
<lejon> wow, thats useful
<lejon> on another subject, I know of the alias command and how to use it, but those aliases, where are they put and how do I make sure they still exist after I shutdown? Because it has happened that I make a couple of aliases but they dont work when ive rebooted
 * lejon pokes jrib
<jrib> lejon: you need to add them to your ~/.bashrc
<jrib> lejon: you'll see a note in the comments there about creating a ~/.bash_aliases if you want to be more organized
<lejon> jrib what does that file do? because I read a guide and the author kept em in a .bash_aliases file, but that might have just been a symlink?
<jrib> !rute
<ubottu> documentation is to be found at http://help.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com - General linux documentation: http://www.tldp.org - http://rute.2038bug.com
<jrib> http://rute.2038bug.com <- this is an excellent read if you want to understand these kind of things.  I wish someone had given me this link when I started
<lejon> jrib Ah I see, ill try that sometime, I think its maybe time for me to go to bed soon, its kindof late
<jrib> lejon: everytime a new bash shell starts it executes the commands in ~/.bashrc
<lejon> ah thanks ^^ I really appreciate ur help mate, sorry for my rudeness before
<jrib> "rc" mans "run commands"
<jrib> s/mans/means
<lejon> ah!
<lejon> jrib, you've given me alot of help now, I will try and experiment with this but now I gotta go to bed :P
<jrib> lejon: good night
<lejon> jrib I might cya later or something
<lejon> Good night sir
<lejon> jrib, are you there?
<lejon> jrib, think you could try to explain how to make a .bash_aliases file? I have to uncomment that check in .bashrc first and then create a file called .bash_aliases in my home directory?
<jrib> lejon: hey
<jrib> lejon: exactly
<lejon> jrib and then in that file I define aliases by writting "alias ls=ls -a" and then save?
<jrib> should be like:
<jrib> alias ls='ls -a'
<lejon> within single qoutes, does it have to be?
<jrib> the spaces need to be escaped somehow I believe.  '' is one way
<lejon> or \ right?
<jrib> try
<lejon> jrib Will do, gotta go and throw some trash first ^^ I have also setup a VM and gonna download the x86 iso for xubuntu and start laborating
<jrib> have fun
<lejon> ^^ Thanks for all the help so far mate, you realize that I am going to poke you alot probably? :P
<jrib> sure, if I'm around, I don't mind
<lejon> Cool, its people like you that lift up communities to what they are, keep the good work up mate *thumbs up*
<lejon> jrib, you s till here?
<jrib> lejon: somewhat
<lejon> jrib okay :P well I uncommented the check in .bashrc and made .bash_aliases and I have defined a few aliases with "alias blargh='ls\ -a'" but when I type the alias, it says command not found
<lejon> something more I have to do?
<jrib> two things
<jrib> you should just do: alias blargh='ls -a'
<jrib> you should start a new terminal after doing that and check if it works
<lejon> not escape the spaces?
<lejon> well Ill try that then and see if it works
<jrib> lejon: if you use '', then you don't escape the spaces
<lejon> ur right, how stupid I am... that is like the basics of programming, gah! :P
<lejon> the '' indicates it whole as one string right, so therefor the space is already "there" in the string
<lejon> it worked now, thanks for teaching me that :P
<jrib> np
<lejon> also jrib, you know where the compiz config file is somewhere? I get a weird error about a invalid path that I should remove, but I dunno the name nor location of compiz config
<jrib> lejon: nope, try #compiz-fusion
<lejon> jrib, will do
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-08
<bigbearomaha> heya folks
<bigbearomaha> is the the school environment crowd?
<ikt> just a quick ty to bodhizazen and all the other session hosts for what they do :) I'm idle (asleep :P) when you do the sessions here as I'm in Australia, but everytime you do a quick show of hands, count mine up :)
<irvan> hi
<bin1010> hey guys
<bin1010> I am trying to find the script from a class that happened on  Thu June 4 2009     6:00 UTC     Make Your Package Upgrade Correctly     mvo  Is there a way to get to that?
<kklimonda> !log
<ubot2> Channel logs can be found at Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - See also !OpenWeek - See also !OpenWeek
<bin1010> thanks.
<nhandler> kklimonda: Also, all packaging training session logs are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs
<kklimonda> nhandler: I though that they were missing and that's why he was asking..
<nhandler> kklimonda: I meant to direct that reply at bin1010 ;) And the logs are up on the wiki
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-11
<ttx> Who is here for the Packaging Training session on Java libraries ?
<ttx> anyone? :)
<jkeyes0> I am, sort of. I know little to nothing about packaging in Ubuntu, so I just planned to sit on the sidelines and observe.
 * drubin 
<ttx> jkeyes0: that's perfectly alright. I was worried I would talk with noone listening
<ttx> OK, let's start !
<ttx> Welcome everyone to this packaging training session, today the subject is Java library packaging...
<ttx> This session assumes you know some basics of Debian packaging and have a vague notion of what a Java library and "ant" are.
 * Quintasan waves
<ttx> Talk / discussion should happen in #ubuntu-classroom-chat. Prefix questions with QUESTION: so that I can spot them more easily. Let me know on channel if I go too fast...
<ttx> So...
<ttx> Java software uses lots of Java libraries, which are commonly provided as JAR files
<ttx> It usually ships with a directory full of those JAR files and some launcher that builds a classpath from them. But that's not how we do it in Linux distributions
<ttx> We want to build from source, and we want to avoid code duplication. So we want to package Java libraries separately, place them in a common directory (/usr/share/java), and then have the software started with a classpath that points to them
<ttx> Trying to have a common library set causes several global issues (in particular with software requiring slightly different versions of the same library) but that's not the purpose of this session
<ttx> We lack a lot of very common Java libraries, which makes packaging Java software more complex than it should. This session will focus on the specific rules and tips to properly package Java libraries, with a few examples.
<ttx> Any question so far ?
<ttx> OK, there should be a lot more in a few minutes :)
<ttx> So let's say you are packaging some Java software and it imports org.safehaus.uuid, conveniently from a binary JAR bundled with its own source in lib/jug-asl-2.2.0.jar
<ttx> I meant, "So let's say you are packaging some Java software and it imports org.safehaus.uuid, conveniently from a binary JAR bundled with its own source in lib/jug-asl-2.2.0.jar"
<ttx> We can't just use that binary JAR. We have to build that JAR from source and have the software build-depend on it.
<ttx> So we need to package version 2.2.0 of that "jug-asl" library.
<ttx> Basically what you want to do is to build jug-asl.jar from source and end up with /usr/share/java/jug-asl-2.2.0.jar, together with a symbolic link /usr/share/java/jug-asl.jar -> jug-asl-2.2.0.jar
<ttx> First you need to double-check that this library hasn't already been packaged somewhere. It's not as easy as it sounds, sometimes its classes will be hidden somewhere in a strange jar name in an obscure package...
<ttx> To be sure, you would need to unjar all the JARs that the distribution contains to check.
<ttx> Fortunately I did that for you and published java-Contents.gz files that contain all classes in all jars in all packages...
<ttx> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/JavaContents
<ttx> So making sure that nobody already provides org.safehaus.uuid in Jaunty is just a matter of downloading the java-Contents.gz file and do a "zgrep org.safehaus.uuid jaunty-java-Contents.gz"
<ttx> If you try it, you can see that it's packaged as part of the "eucalyptus-javadeps" package...
<ttx> But now you want to properly package it separately, depending on eucalyptus-javadeps is just not an option for you.
<ttx> Questions, so far ?
<ttx> Before we attack the packaging part :)
<ttx> I'll assume everything is crystal clear, then.
<ttx> QUESTION: how could I know that an app uses org.safehaus.uuid?
<ttx> You can usually tell from the build documentation of the software you want to package.
<ttx> But you often find out when you try to compile it... and get import errors during java compilation
<ttx> jmehdi: does that answer your question ?
<jmehdi> ttx: yep ;)
<ttx> Ok, let's continue.
<ttx> Java library packaging follows the usual rules, with a few specificities.
<ttx> First debian/control:
<ttx> You should build-depend on "default-jdk" (+any other Java library needed at build-time)
<ttx> That will use openjdk-6-jdk in Ubuntu
<ttx> (for amd64/i386)
<ttx> The binary package that will install those MUST be named libjug-asl-java, this is a requirement of the Debian Java policy. I'll name the source package after the project name, "jug", even if some packagers use libfoo-java as the source package name as well.
<ttx> The binary should usually depend on "default-jre-headless | java2-runtime-headless". That makes sure the right runtime environment is pulled if nothing is already present.
<ttx> If the library requires Java 5 or Java 6, use java5- or java6- instead of java2-
<ttx> If the library *really* cannot do anything without the full JRE, then you should depend on "default-jre | java2-runtime". But usually you don't need to.
<ttx> Any question about the debian/control file ?
<ttx> QUESTION: what's the difference between jre-headless and default-jre?
<ttx> The "headless" JRE is one without graphical extensions
<ttx> so it doesn't pull 50 Mb of X libraries with it
<ttx> On a desktop you don't really care
<ttx> but on servers... you clearly don't want to install all those X libraries that your Java library doesn't really use
<ttx> OK, moving on to debian/rules
<ttx> the complex part :)
<ttx> Downloading jug-src.tar.gz from http://jug.safehaus.org/Download I can see that there is a build.xml there, which means it uses the ant build system, which is good news.
<ttx> "ant" is like a Java-oriented "make". The Makefile is called build.xml and contains targets (in XML) that you can call with ant <target>.
<ttx> The easy way to write the rules file is to use the CDBS ant class. See http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/192289/ for example
<ttx> simple, uh ?
<ttx> You just need to identify the ant task that will build what you need. here it is "jar.asl", you don't want the native part of the jug-lgpl version.
<ttx> Now, the tricky part.
<ttx> To successfully compile you will need to have the required Java libraries in the compiler classpath.
<ttx> To make the Ubuntu build-daemons happy we need to build-depend on the needed library package and insert its JAR into the compiler classpath, we can't use directly another binary coming from nowhere.
<ttx> As a sidenote, that means you first need to properly package all the Java library dependencies needed to build your own... which can be a very large number ;)
<ttx> The CDBS ant class has a nifty mechanism for inserting JARs in the system classpath, just add the required JAR names on a DEB_JARS line. You can put JAR names (without path or extension, it will look in /usr/share/java) or complete paths.
<ttx> In our example, jug needs the log4j library to compile. We would just add a liblog4j-java build-depend in debian/control, and in debian/rules :
<ttx> DEB_JARS := log4j
<ttx> (will add /usr/share/java/log4j.jar to the Java compiler classpath)
<ttx> If the build.xml doesn't try to be too smart with required dependencies, it's all that is needed. But sometimes the "source" bundles the needed binary JAR dependencies, so you need to patch out the part that adds them to the classpath.
<ttx> Another option is to play with the "build.sysclasspath" ant property to control precedence between system classpath and build.xml classpath, like this:
<ttx> DEB_ANT_ARGS := -Dbuild.sysclasspath=last
<ttx> There is no definitive solution since it all depends on how the build.xml file is written. I'd suggest starting packaging easy libraries with no build-dependencies, then try one with a couple dependencies, etc.
<ttx> Questions ?
<ttx> That may seem complex. But Libraries without any dependencies are really simple
<bdrung> i missed the start, is there already a log for this session?
<ttx> QUESTION: is this dependencies management specific to java?
<ttx> bdrung: maybe on irclogs.ubuntu.com
<ttx> This dependency management is not really specific to Java
<ttx> What is specific to Java is that stuff usually depends on tons of other stuff
<ttx> and their build systems aren't distribution-oriented
<ttx> so they just pack their binary dependencies with their source code
<ttx> and tell you to run "ant" and be done with it.
<ttx> the difficulty here is to make that build-daemon compatible
<ttx> and end up with everything built from pure source
<ttx> and without code duplication
<ttx> That's where it gets complex :)
<ttx> OK, we have some time left, so I'll speak of what we do when the library doesn't use "ant".
<ttx> If there is no build system, the easiest way is to write a minimal build.xml file and use the ant CDBS class.
<ttx> Something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/192303/
<ttx> (this one will compile all classes in src/main/java and make a JAR out of them)
<ttx> This should be sufficient for most libraries. But sometimes... if you're unlucky... the stuff you want to package will use maven.
 * ttx pauses for some dramatic effect
<ttx> Maven is a complex build/integration system that handles both build rules and dependency management. The trouble for us is that it makes heavy use of pre-built JARS that it downloads directly from Maven repositories.
<ttx> Since we want reproduceability our build-daemons cannot download from outside repositories. We need to use our own packages. So we need to bypass Maven dependency management completely.
<ttx> If the software is simple enough I'd recommend rewrite an ant build.xml file, as if there were no build system, and use the maven files as hints on required dependencies.
<ttx> But if you're really really unlucky, the thing you're trying to package will make heavy use of "maven plugins" so rewriting it as a build.xml file is just impossible.
 * ttx pauses again for more dramatic effect
<ttx> We are still investigating techniques to work around that problem. The idea is to set up an environment around maven to make it believe it already has everything it needs to run, so that it doesn't download anything.
<ttx> For those interested, Debian proposes: http://wiki.debian.org/Java/MavenBuilder. It's not really complete, but they packaged a lot of Maven plugins already so that's very good.
<ttx> We originally proposed a slightly different approach, less integrated but that can be used on a per-package basis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec. We benefit from Debian work on packaging plugins.
<ttx> That's all about alternative build systems.
<ttx> To sum it up, looking at the build system and dependencies you'll have a good idea of the complexity of the task ahead
<ttx> ant-based, no build dependencies --> easy
<ttx> ant-based, a few already-packaged build dependencies --> medium
<ttx> no build system --> medium
<ttx> ant-based or no build system, lots of build deps --> hard
<ttx> maven-based with lots of plugins --> huh
<ttx> Questions ?
<ttx> QUESTION: does eclipse uses maven?
<ttx> I don't think so. I think they use ant, and they don't have so much external dependencies
<ttx> apt-get source eclipse and looking at debian/rules you should be able to see
<ttx> Jetty 6 uses maven, for example
<ttx> But upstream was kind enough to produce an ant build.xml
<ttx> Most of the stuff I talked about is documented in wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/LibraryPackaging
<ttx> Please join #ubuntu-java and the Java team meetings (on Thursdays, 1400 UTC) if you're interested in doing Java packaging.
<ttx> We should publish a list of wanted libraries, with an evaluation of the expected difficulty
<darkwise> Q: is-it the same why to package a java program ? (there is some where to ask questions?)
<darkwise> ah ok thanks :)
<ttx> darkwise: Java programs have the same problems. A few things I talked about don't apply to them though
<ttx> like package naming
<ttx> or runtime dependencies
<ttx> But in the end programs are made of libraries, so... :)
<ttx> If you look into the tomcat6 package for example...
<ttx> it produces a library part called libtomcat6-java
<ttx> the rest is the launchers, init scripts and tools around that
<ttx> that's all I wanted to talk about, so I open the floor for discussion
<darkwise> I get it ;) thanks ttx
<ttx> Any other question ?
<ttx> OK, thanks everyone for listening, hopefully I didn't make it look like more difficult than it really is :)
<ttx> I expect the logs of the session to be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/11/%23ubuntu-classroom.txt in a few minutes
<darkwise> thank you ttx
<ttx> for those that have been missing the beginning
<maxpaguru> ttx: thanks! Bye everybody
<ttx> and soon on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs
<derwas> nice!
<ttx> For more questions you can always ping me on #ubuntu-java
<ttx> (as long as it's Java packaging questions more than Java questions)
<ttx> bye everyone !
<mib_dg74kw7p> anyone know how to view or change uid to gain permissions for devices ?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-classroom || Upcoming: 25th June @ 00:00 UTC: Testing your packages using pbuilder || Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find out the UTC time
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-12
<mib_i6cej5tz> hello
<mib_i6cej5tz> anybody here online
<LinKDeaD> Hi, I am wanting to get more involved in the ubuntu community.  I have an avid interest in computers, and I have been loving Linux.  I would like to get involved in programming and was wondering if anyone knew of any free online books covering it.
<stefanlsd> LinKDeaD: This is pretty good. Lots of others out there - http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/
<stefanlsd> LinKDeaD: Have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted   for Ubuntu involvement on the dev side...
<FujiVickery> what can I learn here?
<fujisan> mack-oh-es
<ikonia> what do you want ?
<fujisan> I just want to be more like you
<ikonia> fujisan: what do you want - you've just claimed your intention is not to troll - yet you join here and start making random comments
<fujisan> and be a productive and respected member of freenode
<ikonia> then do that then,
<fujisan> i saw it on the logs
<fujisan> and i thought i would check it out
<fujisan> i want to learn more about Ubuntu
<ikonia> ok - so be quiet and attend the next class
<fujisan> is the place for it?
<fujisan> oh okay ty
<ikonia> if there is a class that's valid - yes this is valid
<fujisan> is there a schedule somewhere?
<ikonia> read the topic
<fujisan> ok ty
<fujisan> and sorry for earlier
<ikonia> don't waste your time
<fujisan> i am watching revolution os now
<ikonia> that is not relevant to this channel
<fujisan> ok sorry bye
<ikonia> bye
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-13
<charly> hello, i want to set up a mirror repository of http://mark.tester.be on my local server, can anybody tell me how to do that?
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-14
<LetarisFran-da33> hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-06-17
<AkShams_> Hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-06-19
<raegis> hello everybody
<raegis> can anybody help me with ubuntu 10.04?
<nigelb> raegis: you might to try #ubuntu
<nigelb> thats the main support channel and were you can get help normally
<raegis> thx a lot
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-06-14
<jcastro> testing!
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-06-15
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Michigan LoCo Lernid Demo - Instructors: jcastro, jsjgruber - Slides: http://is.gd/pFqbV4
<ClassBot> Slides for Michigan LoCo Lernid Demo: https://sites.google.com/site/gruberdocuments/engineering-docs/lernid-demo.pdf
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/15/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<pleia2> For folks watching, this session is a demo for an event at the Michigan LoCo, not much to see here for IRC-only attendees I'm afraid!
<jcastro> jsjgruber: ok I am ready
<jsjgruber> jcastro, I'll talk for a few minutes before we starting lernid
<jcastro> ok perfect!
<jcastro> Welcome to my Class! This is an example class for the michigan user group.
<jcastro> THis class will be about foo and bar
<jcastro> Today we will start with basics for ubuntu ...
<jcastro> So, you've installed ubuntu, what next?
<snap-l> Hello foo and bar followers.
<jcastro> Well, ubuntu comes with some great software out of the box
<jcastro> Like Firefox and OpenOffice
<jcastro> Any questions?
<ClassBot> greg-g-lernid asked: Where can I get a beer after the event?
<jcastro> You can get beer at Shield's
<jcastro> just follow the car in front of you.
<jammcq> hey
<ClassBot> jsjgruberxyz asked: Since lernid uses desktopcouch for preferences will they be stored in the cloud?
<jcastro> Yes they will, any software that uses desktop couch can be auto synced between all of your computers!
<jcastro> Ok well thanks for coming everyone
<jcastro> THis concludes out session
<jcastro> http://www.ubuntu.com
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com
<jammcq> http://www.mug.org
<jcastro> http://launchpad.net/lernid
<jcastro> [slide 14]
<nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid
<jcastro> [SLIDE 14]
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/15/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<jsjgruber> testing lernid
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-06-17
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Q and A with Penelope Stowe and Charlie Kravetz of the Ubuntu Accessibility Team - Instructors: Pendulum, charlie-tca
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<Pendulum> Hiya! Sorry, had a slight organizational confusion
<Pendulum> I'm Penelope Stowe, I'm the Community Accessibility team lead. Which mostly means I do non-devel accessibility stuff
<Pendulum> with me is Charlie Kravetz ( charlie-tca ) who pretty much runs accessibility testing within the community
 * charlie-tca waves
<Pendulum> As a team the Accessibility team is a mix of people. Running development is Luke Yelavich (I think I spelled that correctly ;-) ) at Canonical
<Pendulum> Otherwise we're mostly a group of community members trying to improve accessibility and advocate for it within Ubuntu
<Pendulum> We do focus on Ubuntu rather than the other 'flavours' such as Kubuntu or Xubuntu, however, we welcome anyone to come talk to us and help. For example, Charlie is also the Xubuntu Project Lead :-)
<Pendulum> So now that you know a little about us and what we do, I think it's probably a good time to start asking for questions!
<ClassBot> AlanBell asked: what bits of Ubuntu are not yet accessible?
<Pendulum> Well, as of this very moment Unity is not fully accessible, although it's getting closer.
<Pendulum> things Ubuntu has are: screen reader, screen magnification, and on screen keyboard.
<Pendulum> The biggest thing it's missing is voice control and voice recognition, however, those are larger issues within the Linux and free software community
<charlie-tca> Unity is great for the keyboard user, most items in it are fully accessible with shortcut keys
<charlie-tca> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts/28087#28087
<ClassBot> AlanBell asked: what accessibility applications are there in Ubuntu?
<Steppy> I am having trouble getting my minidisk player to work under ubuntu. It is plugged into the pcs line in port. Under windows I had this set up so it would play through the pc speakers and not ned it's own
<dasupergamer> ask that in #ubuntu
<charlie-tca> There are by default in Ubuntu, Onboard Keyboard
<charlie-tca> and mousetweaks
<charlie-tca> The libraries to run the screen reader are also installed by default
<charlie-tca> Any user may install Orca, which is the gnome screen-reader. You can also install Dasher, which is a typing application used with a mouse
<charlie-tca> We also have several themes designed for accessibility. both low contrast and high contrast themes, and of course any user can increase font sizes
<charlie-tca> pe
<charlie-tca> Did I miss anything?
<Pendulum> I think that's pretty much what's at least easy to access and use :)
<ClassBot> dasupergamer asked: In terms of Accessibility whats does Ubuntu have over other linux distro's and windows and mac
<charlie-tca> I think the answer to this question lies in how Unity is designed
<charlie-tca> Unity allows a user to navigate the entire desktop with a mouse, if desired.
<charlie-tca> It also allows the same user to not use the mouse, if need be. With the keyboard shortcuts in Unity, one can navigate almost everything.
<charlie-tca> No other Linux distribution allows this, to the best of my knowledge
<charlie-tca> As for Windows and Mac, I don' t use either one, and could not tell you if there is any advantage.
<Pendulum> Well, an advantage in the past that is still somewhat there is cost
<charlie-tca> I do know that speech synthesis in Linux is less advanced than in proprietary operating systems.
<Pendulum> Orca is free, whereas the major Windows screenreader JAWS is about $1000
<Pendulum> Unfortunately, where Linux does take a hit in accessibility is voice recognition. But that's very much a larger issue than Ubuntu and projects like julius and CMUSphinx (and it's library) are working hard to correct it. Bot of those, by the way, are availible in the Ubuntu repositories :-)
<Pendulum> Anyone else with questions?
<charlie-tca> I would like to take a minute here and say that although the Accessibility Team is small, we have a loud voice in Ubuntu.
<charlie-tca> We would like to be able to help every flavour with accessibility, unfortunately, our time is limited.
<charlie-tca> This makes accessibity within Ubuntu our priority.
<charlie-tca> We strive to keep accessibility within Ubuntu in the forefront as much as possible.
<ClassBot> Winterpeg asked: Are there any universal design guidelines for Ubuntu developers? How do you communicate those guidelines? Thank you.
<Pendulum> We don't have any set guidelines for Ubuntu yet, however, the guidelines that the Gnome Accessibility team has are quite good
<Pendulum> they can be found at: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Developers
<Pendulum> The Ubuntu Accessibility team has also been putting together personas for both developers and designers to give them additional points to think about
<Pendulum> the personas done so far can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas
<ClassBot> dasupergamer asked: Gnome was a very good GUI. But why switch to Unity. It doesn't make Ubuntu any more friendly to people who use tablets and such?
<charlie-tca> I will attempt to answer this.
<charlie-tca> Unity was started some time ago. It was known as Ubuntu Netbook in 10.10, I believe. It actually started to come together a year or so before that.
<charlie-tca> At that time, gnome 3 was still an unknown.
<charlie-tca> After putting in a lot of time and effort to make unity, there was no good reason to not use it, even when Gnome3 was announced.
<charlie-tca> Unity is a fantastic idea, if you think about it. Full accessibility, the same interface on any computer, netbook, notebook, desktop, palm!
<charlie-tca> No more learning many different keystrokes and mouse gestures for each system
<charlie-tca> A chance to make a linux distribution that everyone can use and become familiar with easily.
<charlie-tca> Unity is simply another shell for gnome, and gnome is still the underlying environment
<ClassBot> dasupergamer asked: What about Speech Recognition?
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<Pendulum> Right now Speech Recognition in open source across the board is lacking
<Pendulum> there are projects such as julius and CMUSphinx working on it, but it's still mostly not at a usable level
<Pendulum> both the libraries for Julius and for CMUSphinx are in the Ubuntu repositories
<Pendulum> so you can install and play with them, however, it's not really to a level that can be used daily
<Pendulum> As well, in the past people have managed to get Dragon Naturally Speaking to work under Wine, but I'm not sure it's been possible recently
<ClassBot> dasupergamer asked: How does Ubuntu 11.04 feel like on tablet PCs due to there touch screens rather than the standar keyboard and mouse?
<charlie-tca> As far as accessibiliut
<charlie-tca> As far as accessibility, touch screens work great for those with good hand movements
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu 11.04 should work on those quite well, even though touch is not perfected yet, and depends somewhat on the actual hardware.
<ClassBot> AlanBell asked: what help do you need to make accessibility better?
<Pendulum> More people, mostly.
<ClassBot> dasupergamer asked: What is the best way of using Ubuntu. Speech, Touch, Keyboard and Mouse?
<charlie-tca> Each person has to decide this on their own. For some of us, it depends on what parts of the body are working.
<charlie-tca> If a person has no arm movement, touch screens are harder to use
<charlie-tca> If you are deaf, speech is not usable
<charlie-tca> etc...
<charlie-tca> Unity tries to make all of these things usable, which is very helpful for those who need different hardware to use the computer.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<Pendulum> Thank you everyone for coming!
<Pendulum> We can be found in #ubuntu-accessibility
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<Pendulum> and are more than happy to answer any other questions there!
<nigelb> ..
<nigelb> .
<nigelb> hat removed
<nd456> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-06-19
<roy_> hey
<Kvrmurthy> Anybody there?
<m4n1sh> Kvrmurthy: hi
<Kvrmurthy> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-13
<smoothtexan___> howdy
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-14
<bobweaver> If you are here for that packaging class please also /join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Packaging From Scratch - Instructors: bobweaver
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<bobweaver> Hello there I am joseph Mills https://launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills
<bobweaver> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/josephmills
<bobweaver> If you just joined plz go to for audio  http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ubuntu-packaging-help
<bobweaver> we are going to be using teamviewer for looking at my desk top
<bobweaver> for all thous that have not installed the pre recs for this class plz see http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10932045&postcount=4
<bobweaver> chili555,  thanks for making it plz point browser to   http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ubuntu-packaging-help
<bobweaver> please open team viewer and click the metting tab and then enter the meeting room m31-328-510
<bobweaver> If you have Questions for me we can use the bot please Use QUESTIONS: <how to ....> ?
<bobweaver> can every one hear me ?
<bobweaver> If you just joined plz go to for audio  http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ubuntu-packaging-help
<bobweaver> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10932045&postcount=4
<bobweaver> we will make package that does all the work of that link
<bobweaver> so 1st
<bobweaver> open terminal
<bobweaver> enter in
<bobweaver> gpg --gen-key
<bobweaver> if you have questions about the questions just ask
<bobweaver> well we wait for key to get done open new terminl
<bobweaver> terminal *
<bobweaver> enter in
<bobweaver> gedit ~/.bashrc
<bobweaver> add these lines
<bobweaver> export DEBFULLNAME="Joseph Mills"
<bobweaver> export DEBEMAIL="josephjamesmills@gmail.com"
<bobweaver> at the bottom taking using your info that you used in gpg --gen-key
<bobweaver> proof read then save
<bobweaver> and close gedit
<bobweaver> go back to terminal and run
<bobweaver> source ~/.bashrc
<bobweaver> please download this file  download this file http://www.omattos.com/sites/default...all-fw.tar_.gz
<bobweaver> to Desktop
<bobweaver> that is the file that has firmware
<bobweaver> the package that we will be making
<bobweaver> once it is downloaded to the desktop extract there
<bobweaver> sorry the correct link is    http://www.omattos.com/sites/default/files/b43-all-fw.tar_.gz
<bobweaver> rename the all file to  b43patch-0.0.1
<bobweaver> sorry the flder
<bobweaver> folder *
<bobweaver> go inside that folder
<bobweaver> and move the folder b43LAGACY  to the trash so that there is only the b43 folder
<bobweaver> look on team viewer now
<bobweaver> download this txt and save as LICENSE.  (watch teamvier) http://ubuntustreetteam.tk/boadcomLICENSE.txt
<bobweaver> after the class is over guys this will be on youtube
<bobweaver> all of it
<bobweaver> teamviewer is recording the session now
<bobweaver> I will post link at the end of class
<bobweaver> sorry I droped the mic
<bobweaver> make a tar ball of the package now
<bobweaver> and move that tar ball into the soruce package look at teamviewer
<bobweaver> now open terminal and
<bobweaver>  cd ~/Desktop/b43patch-0.0.1/
<bobweaver>  ls
<bobweaver> b43patch-0.0.1.tar.gz  lib  LICENSE  Makefile
<bobweaver> that is what you should have any questions ?
<bobweaver> so we are now going to use dh_make
<bobweaver> to generate stuff for us
<bobweaver> in terminal
<bobweaver> dh_make -c gpl3 -f b43patch-0.0.1.tar.gz
<bobweaver> s
<bobweaver> for single binary
<bobweaver> enter
<bobweaver> then enter again
<bobweaver> now open file manager
<bobweaver> now we have debian dir
<bobweaver> go in there
<bobweaver> and rm all the examples files
<bobweaver> watch team viewer
<bobweaver> under debian dir open up changelog copywrite and Control files in editor
<bobweaver> in browser look at   http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<bobweaver> in you control file remove   #Vcs-Git: git://git.debian.org/collab-maint/b43patch.git
<bobweaver> #Vcs-Browser: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/b43patch.git;a=summary
<bobweaver> them 2 lines
<bobweaver> Home page is here
<bobweaver> http://www.broadcom.com/docs/linux_sta/README.txt
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<bobweaver> thanks for showing up I will make log of everything and post it
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<jsjgruber-x-p> bobweaver's youtube:  http://www.youtube.com/user/mrbobweaver
<jsjgruber-x-p> bobweaver's blog: http://ubuntustreetteam.tk/
<bobweaver> for anyone that missed some things or came in 1/2 way I will be posting video and audio of all of this on my blog and also on youtube take care and thanks for showing up you Rock !
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-15
<aakwah> Hi
<aakwah> Regarding schedule what is time system used?
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-16
<arun__> a new to this ! can anyone help me out ... wat is this all about ?
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-17
<WindBuntu> i am here to learn
<JoseeAntonioR> WindBuntu: We don't have any class atm, but we'll host a series of classes called the Ubuntu User Days next week. You can learn more here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> This is a test
<wangerin> d
<wangerin> Det var engang en bager
<JoseeAntonioR> !de | wangerin
<ubot2> wangerin: In den meisten Ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuche bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Einfach "/join #ubuntu-de" eingeben. Danke fÃ¼r Dein VerstÃ¤ndnis!
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-10
<TannerCook100> Hi?
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-11
<Jonel15> hi
<toddy> hi Jonel15
<Jonel15> Who can speak German?
<Jonel15> nobody?
<Jonel15> bye.
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-12
<edoedo_> Hello , I am new and need some help
<edoedo_> How can I learn more about terminal and how to type those words?
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-13
<ChRisHansen> classBot teach me something please?
<ChRisHansen> am sorry if i hurt your feelings classBot
<ChRisHansen> well i am oof to do my homework then
<ChRisHansen> i am going to study hard tonight
<ChRisHansen> taa taa classBot
<ChRisHansen> !bash ClassBot
<ubot2`> Factoid 'bash ClassBot' not found
#ubuntu-classroom 2014-06-09
<Aturnwald> Hello, I've got a problem with Ubuntu 13.10, I can't install any packages, because the file git-daemon-sysinit is corruped, so can anyone help me, please ?
