#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-10
<GirlyGirl> Morning
<daftykins> hi
<daftykins> GirlyGirl: early one for you!
<GirlyGirl> daftykins: Yup
<GirlyGirl> daftykins: You too
<daftykins> i wish
<daftykins> late unfortunately :S
<knightwise> morning everyone
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> ahoyhoy
<knightwise> Does anyone know any good programs in linux to manage your rss feed ?
<knightwise> as in : Make my own podcast feed
<nigelb> knightwise: I'm guessing popey might know ;)
<GirlyGirl> knightwise: listgarden
<knightwise> thanx :)
<knightwise> i'm givin it a google
<GirlyGirl> knightwise: Why not a bing .. sounds better
<knightwise> Lol :)
<knightwise> hahahaha :) I haz my OSX Virtual machine purring along quite nicely :)
<daftykins> oh yeah not run mine in a while
<knightwise> its pretty spiffy
<daftykins> shame about the OS
<daftykins> ;)
<knightwise> got them workin headless using vmware and stuff :) pretty nifty
<knightwise> Going to see if I can build a headless box with 2 or 3 of those vm's on there and ship it off to a friends house
<knightwise> would be great to use it for remote backups and more
<daftykins> =]
<knightwise> and that vboxmanage command does pack some punch :
<knightwise> Ps : i wrote up an article on the Virtualisation thing http://www.knightwise.com/blog/technology/872-sliders-resort-to-running-osx-in-a-vm
<ali1234> knightwise: i might have a go at that later today
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> morning diplo
<knightwise> Grrr
<knightwise> Gpodder stopped working from the command line cuz of some stupid locale settings
<czajkowski> mrevell: darling dearest did you get people on friday for your thingymebobby
<rml_home> can anyone point me towards a site that shows how to direct all my network traffic through my vpn connection?  My google fu is failing
<mrevell> czajkowski, I did not, no. Thanks for asking. I ended up getting tied up with other things, so I didn't manage to do put much time into recruiting people for it.
<mrevell> czajkowski, I think we'll have a working mock-up soon so I'll just wait to test that.
<czajkowski> mrevell: wanna do it now
<czajkowski> am free and tis early and noboyd is in
<mrevell> czajkowski, Yeah, why not? :) Cheers. I'll email you the slides.
<czajkowski> mrevell: coolio
<czajkowski> skype ?
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> i haz made bubu
<knightwise> i has installed lxde on remote machine
<knightwise> now machine way to slow
<knightwise> quiestion is : In russia .. how to kill lxde off system
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, all!
<bigcalm> White Stripes, JamesTait
<knightwise> small question. If i want my Ubuntu to boot into command line only (for speed issues) where do i change that setting ?
<daftykins> you need to set a default runlevel
<daftykins> you could duplicate the boot entry in GRUB config and have one boot as runlevel 0 or something
<daftykins> although i do recall ubuntu doesn't use runlevels as other distros do
<knightwise> daftykins: whats the correct one (no single user mode , system still needs to be accesable via sftp and stuff)
<daftykins> nope i've convinced myself out of that one XD
<daftykins> i'm too newb i'm afraid! total guess that was
<ali1234> just disable lightdm from starting automatically
<popey> Morning all
<freckle> on unity if I have something maximised in the background and something not maximised in the foreground how do I minimize the background app without having to first select it?
<knightwise> popey: !
<ali1234> freckle: you can't
<freckle> ali1234: huh? how is the productive?
<ali1234> it isn't
<ali1234> unity sucks
<freckle> ?
<freckle> on 11.10 can you ditch unity?#
<ali1234> sure
<gord> its one tiny extra click, i wouldn't say its the most unproductive thing in the world
<ali1234> you can use gnome-shell, or gnome-fallback, or kde, or xfce
<ali1234> gord: that one tiny extra click involves looking around on the app for somewhere safe to click, else you make it do something you don't want
<czajkowski> that was fun
 * czajkowski hugs mrevell 
<gord> well no, you can click the launcher
<freckle> gord: the rest of the world tries get rid of extra clicks.. unity makes them a feature
<gord> measuring how productive UI's are by counting clicks is maybe the worst statistical measurement you can do
<ali1234> gord: so it's a move to the left, wait for launcher, find the right icon for the app, then click it
<ali1234> gord: well you're the one saying "it's only 1 click" :)
<gord> if you happen to want to do it that way, or you can just click on the application if its visible, or you can alt tab to it
<ali1234> the real problem is that you have to hunt around for the icon, or a safe spot
<ali1234> it's not about clicks, it's abut having to hunt around for stuff
<ali1234> alt-tab is also a fail, i have to find the right icon that is associated with the app
<ali1234> all these things involve a lookup in my brain
<ali1234> i can't just "minimize this window without caring what it is"
<ali1234> so now i have to 1. figure out what app the window belongs to. 2. figure out if it is safe to click 3. if it isn't, try to remember what it's icon looks like  and then hunt for it in alt tab or launcher
<ali1234> vs the old method "just click the minimize button"
<daftykins> OS roulette
<bigcalm> I've only just started trying out Unity on my laptop. I don't care how late I am to the game. Doesn't seem to be a very productive interface to me. Having everything maximised is not optimal
<czajkowski> I love it that way
<bigcalm> Not sure how that will work with 3 monitors on my desktop though
<ali1234> bigcalm: extremely badly
<bigcalm> Looks like I will keep Unity away from my workstation then :)
<ali1234> i recommend you to try it anyway
<ali1234> just to see how bad it is
<bigcalm> Heh
<ali1234> besides, it's still better than *everything else*
<bigcalm> I'll try, but not sure it'll work having a unified menu system
<knightwise> anyone know how you can reconfigure your locale settings  ? Gpodder wont run anymore from the command line
<daftykins> dpkg-reconfigure locales ?
<daftykins> oh wrong approach maybe
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<hagisbasheruk> :) morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning hagisbasheruk :)
<bigcalm> Morning
<daftykins> ohayo gozaimasu!
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm and daftykins :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<bigcalm> I love that Japanese greeting. Sounds like one is sneezing
<daftykins> hehehe
<knightwise> Strange, this is the error i get even after i run dpkg-reconfigure locale http://pastebin.com/Ap9RDfAS  (when i run gpodder from the command line)
<brobostigon> interesting, i just found a domain setting on my router, so presumably, i could apply a domain, to the internal network.
<daftykins> sounds odd
<brobostigon> odd?
<daftykins> yarr
<brobostigon> why?
<daftykins> just not the usual way they work of course :)
<brobostigon> very true, i thought it weird also, but it is there.
<daftykins> i'd do that with hosts file configs
<brobostigon> good point, yes.
<knightwise> hey guyz , when i start up Gpodder from the command line , i get the following error http://pastebin.com/K0bnarNV
<knightwise> any idea how i can set those locale settings straight ?
<Laney> happy one year since maverick
<BigRedS> Should the mysql client that ships with 5.1 be able to connect to mysql 5.0?
<davmor2> morning all
<gord> mornin'
<davmor2> morning gord
<gord> davmor2, rather late in today aren't we? ;)
<davmor2> gord: my hours of work are 11:00 â 20:00 to tie in with the bulk of my team
<gord> davmor2, all US based?
<davmor2> gord: some in Europe but my boss was originally in US based and it was so we had some overlap.  Now in the new team the one guy that can help me the most is Argentinian based  so isn't on till midday-ish
<oimon>  how can the price of kindle books be justified when they are comparable to *hardback* prices?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 do not mention the rugby 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ireland to wales wt...
<davmor2> czajkowski: :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: I'm warning you
<gord> oimon, i don't think they are trying to justify prices, the market decides and the market has up to now said that its an okay price
<oimon> gord: are early adopters generally suckers?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm over here dancing a jig that my twitter feed will no longer be full of tweets about Irelands score any more :P
<gord> oimon, early adopters? the kindle has been around for years
<czajkowski>  /ignore davmor2
<czajkowski> davmor2: 2 more weeks of RWC :)
<gord> kindle is waaaaay past the early adopter period, its hugely successful
<oimon> in the grand scheme of things, people with ebook readers vs other people is avery small part of the pop
<davmor2> oimon: kindle sales out sell paper now I'd hardly say that was the case
 * Laney was just considering trying to snag a new kindle in orlando
<davmor2> czajkowski: I know but it won't have the same twitter inpact :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have a hug I know you're upset
 * czajkowski pours water on davmor2 
<czajkowski> brat
<davmor2> czajkowski: hopefully while I'm hugging you cause you'll get as wet :P
<oimon> davmor2: where did you get that statistic?
<davmor2> oimon: bbc news, cnn news, the whole of the T'interwebz reported it
<oimon> [citation needed]
<davmor2> oimon: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/kindle_e-books_now_outselling_all_paper_books_on_a.php
<davmor2> for one
<oimon> i wonder if "sold" ebooks includes the free ones?
<davmor2> oimon: if you type in ebooks out sell paper books there are about 20 pages of it though :)
<oimon> ah free ones are excluded
<davmor2> oimon: In which case it's left them way behind
<davmor2> oimon: My wife gets really cheap books off of amazon for her kindle and it's the books she wants,  I think it depends on the manufacturer as much as amazon as it's the publisher that sets the price as much as it is amazon
<davmor2> oimon: so to be fair I think you'll find the kindle isn't so much flash in the pan or small fry as you think
<oimon> i was hoping that the price of ebooks was artificially high and would come down :(
<oimon> it seems that everyone is buying them though
<oimon> as you point out
<oimon> Â£10 for ebook, 10.72 for hardback :-\
<selinuxium> popey, How did you get on with the Android Joggler install?
<popey> its okay. has some issues
<davmor2> oimon: yeap but is there a paperback price available what you'll find is the paperback price sets the kindle price too
<selinuxium> popey, I couldn't even get it to fire up.. Think all my USB drives are not compatible..
<popey> how did you write it?
<davmor2> oimon: it's so the publisher makes as much
<oimon> davmor2: and the govt..
<oimon> VAT on ebooks
<czajkowski> whoo release party thursday
<czajkowski> selinuxium: still coming
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Hopefully :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm still gonna try too just depends how our releases are going
<Monsterwizard> all the best computer scientists were maths grads :P
 * popey wonders if its safe to follow czajkowski on twitter again
<oimon> popey: are your g+ exactly the same as tweets now? i.e. can one unfollow on twitter ?
<davmor2> popey: apparently not there are still 2 weeks left, however Ireland suck and got beaten by a new welsh team so who knows .....  /me wait for the plume of smoke to erupt from czajkowski
<oimon> Monsterwizard: i did joint honours :P
<Monsterwizard> hmm
<popey> oimon: not always, no
<oimon> had a face-off yesterday at the in-laws between a ipad / touchpad and galaxy tab 10.1
<popey> who won?
<gord> how do you even do a face-off? like, speed tests?
<gord> or just throw them at one and other and see which breaks first?
<gordonjcp> gord: get a screwdriver under the bezel, see how long it takes to pull the face off
<popey> heh
<gordonjcp> the ones on the galaxy tab are glued down really well
<czajkowski> popey: yeah pretty much
<czajkowski> wont be ranting and raving any more
<gordonjcp> the ipad uses the lightest, thinnest glue ever, but you need a special tool to get the cap off the bottle
<oimon> the ipad had the best games, the galaxy had the best screen , the touchpad was the cheapest
<oimon> galaxy has an interesting form factor, slightly longer and thinner
<hagisbasheruk> touchpad is nice with uberkernel and tweeks
<oimon> webos got special mention for it's cards multitasking
<davmor2> czajkowski: popey she is lying she will always rant and rave on twitter it just won't be about the rugby anymore
<oimon> ipad failed on multitask
<hagisbasheruk> so who owns the touchpad
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi 
<oimon> hagisbasheruk: moi
<davmor2> popey: ^ see you know it's true when she gets all offensive :D
<hagisbasheruk> Android cm7 release soon oimon :)
<davmor2> oimon: how you getting on with it now?
<bigcalm> 7.1 was released this morning. That was a very long time from 7.1rc1
<oimon> davmor2: i like it, with more apps would be great.
<hagisbasheruk> on touchpad bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: no, in general
<hagisbasheruk> have you tweeked the hell out of it via preware oimon
<oimon> bigcalm: how do you go about upgrading CM 7.0.x to 7.1? straightforward or destrcutive?
<bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: I only care about my own Nexus One ;)
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<oimon> hagisbasheruk: only as much as i need to. a couple of patches is all i added
<bigcalm> oimon: used ROM Manager (ClockworkMod) and it 'just worked' (tm)
<popey> oimon: how did the ipad fail on multitask?
<hagisbasheruk> fast card switching patch is a must oimon :)
<selinuxium> popey, sorry, missed your response.... I used dd
<bigcalm> oimon: don't know about 7.0.x, I went from 7.1rc1
<bigcalm> But it will be just as easy I'm sure
<popey> selinuxium: odd, I did that too, you did dd to /dev/sdb and not /dev/sdb1 didnt you?
<oimon> popey: the ipad v1 owner told me it was lame and didn't really multitask properly , so i took his word for it
<selinuxium> popey, yup, I believe so... I will give it another go..
<bigcalm> Why has dabs.com recently started spamming me again?
<popey> oimon: thats hardly a test
<hagisbasheruk> i look forward to no chroot ubuntu on touchpad as i hate they way the devs have implamented using the webos onscreen keyboard in ubuntu
<diplo> any of you guys got the HTC Desire ?
<oimon> popey: no, but he forfeited the round optionally :)
<oimon> diplo: i have it
<popey> has he actually _used_ the device?
<popey> :D
<oimon> popey: all the time, plays a lot of games it seems
<oimon> he is making a game too
<mfraz74> Am I the only one who can't get the new Ubuntu countdown banner to work?
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown that one?
<mfraz74> popey: yes that one, it saying 8 days to go
<hagisbasheruk> oh i hope they dump that stupid new desktop
<czajkowski> seen someone say that in -website a few hrs ago
<popey> hagisbasheruk: unity?
<bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: Unity?
<hagisbasheruk> yup it sux
<mfraz74> plus they're all showing the same version
<bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: bad luck :)
<popey> other desktops are available
<hagisbasheruk> i know but unity should not be standard
<mfraz74> like KDE, XFCE and whichever one Lubuntu uses
<popey> LXDE
<popey> hagisbasheruk: why?
<hagisbasheruk> i like lxde :)
 * oimon is getting impatient wating to see what elementary will look like
<hagisbasheruk> i am liking webos gui , ubuntu/linux should clone that
<selinuxium> Minecraft for android goodness... https://market.android.com/details?id=com.mojang.minecraftpe&feature=more_from_developer
<selinuxium> popey, what issues did you have with the android install? was the market available?
<popey> not properly, no
<popey> it wouldnt sync gmail
<popey> beeb player wouldnt play audio
<popey> enough issues to make it unusable
<gord> hehe beep
<gord> forgot that even existed
<bigcalm> popey: Xalior maybe able to help you
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<popey> !pong
<lubotu3> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: boo
<czajkowski> Daviey: darling dearest.......
<popey> bah!
<popey> have shaken co-workers can of coke
<popey> he's taking too long to open it
<bigcalm> HAHA
<bigcalm> Office japes!
<Pernig> anyone got any distro suggestions for a 486 laptop with 16MB RAM? (puppy doesn't work)
<mfraz74> they don't work as well as the old ring pull ones did
<popey> windows 98?
<bigcalm> Windows 95?
<cda0> slitaz
<Pernig> oh, there is another complication
<Pernig> cd drive is broken
<cda0> door stop?
<Pernig> haha
<Pernig> i will give slitaz ago, heard of that one
<Daviey> hey cztab
<bigcalm> An old version of suse. Floppy boot, and net install
<mfraz74> dsl?
<popey> here we go
<popey> ftzzzzz
<cda0> Pernig, try tiny core too
<popey> lfs?
<Pernig> cda0: i'm using microcore at the moment
<Pernig> it is running out of memory at boot
<popey> whats it going to be used for?
<czajkowski> Daviey: darling are you in london yet
<davmor2> Daviey: Say no save yourself
<bigcalm> ;)
<Pernig> popey: text editing and maybe as a terminal to SSH into my main machine
<popey> whats wrong with microcore?
<Pernig> i can't get it to boot :(
<popey> where is the main machine?
<Pernig> i'm talking to you on it :P
<popey> just wondering if it's worthwhile
<popey> time and effort + power consumption
<bigcalm> Geeks - we do it because we can
<Pernig> probably not, but i am determined to get some use out of it!
<Pernig> it's an awesome little machine, the battery lasts about two hours
<Daviey> czajkowski: on the train right now \o/
<czajkowski> Daviey: you had better have the banner with you
 * czajkowski waits for the pause
<czajkowski> and swearing to not come across via IRC
 * czajkowski notes the lack of comments from Daviey 
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<davmor2> Daviey: gets off the train and walks back home to get it
<Daviey> cz	erk.
<knightwise> czajkowski: would you like me to sing you an oompa loompa song ?
<davmor2> oompa loompa dumpadedoo I've got another puzzle for you, why leave to Daviey what you can dooooo, he just a bloke and really busy toooo  or words to that effect
<bigcalm> Listen to Absolute 80s and it'll block out the Oompa Loompa song :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: haha I am listening to Absolute 80s on my dab radio and still have the oompa loompa song now :D
<bigcalm> Ha
<davmor2> ohhhhh chromium in oneiric plays nicely with the kindle app
 * bigcalm fights for his right to party
<knightwise> i think czajkowski is gonna kill us all ...
<davmor2> knightwise: never happen she'd have no one to threaten to kill if she killed us
<knightwise> davmor2: that would indeed put a serious opening in her daily agenda .
<czajkowski> knightwise: NO
<czajkowski> Daviey: !!!
<kazade_> afternoon all
<dwatkins> knightwise: I heared the Oompa Loompa song yesterday, coincidentally enough
<Pernig> hi kazade
 * dwatkins hums it
<dwatkins> hoya
<dwatkins> also, hiya
<czajkowski> kazade: aloha
<kazade> hey czajkowski
<kazade> how's things?
<czajkowski> kazade: good was in your place last week
<kazade> you were?!
<kazade> cool :D
<kazade> no-one tells me anything :p
<davmor2> kazade: that's cause you'd know as much as them if they did
<kazade> heh
<knightwise> i'll be able to pick on of these babies up for 250 euro's . Any thoughts ? http://www.anandtech.com/show/4018/asus-eeepc-1215n-ng-ion/1
<davmor2> knightwise: it's an over sized netbook
<gord> heh atom and ion? gonna get hot
<gord> but it'll decode 1080p content
<gord> if you are on linux
<davmor2> knightwise: wait for the transformer 2 to come out and pick up the transformer for a song instead :)
<knightwise> of COURSE i"ll be on linux gord :)
<knightwise> allthough I AM looking to hackintosh that baby too
<knightwise> just cuz i can
<knightwise> (at least i hope i can)
<knightwise> but a dual boot osx - mint would be sweet
<knightwise> davmor2: i reviewed the transformer 1 on www.knightwise.com ... its not all that its hyped up to be
<gord> yeah i just thought i'd specify because windows doesn't have access to the same API's :)
<knightwise> gord :) Pretty funny .. asus new taggline should be : does less with windows
 * oimon watches knightwise video about transformer, and notices a picture of popey on the tablet :-o
<popey> o_O
<oimon> http://www.knightwise.com/kwtv-screencast/848-kwtv0028-reviewing-the-asus-eeepad-transformer go to 4:54
<knightwise> yeah .. it became an X-rated podcast about there
<popey> i dont see it
<oimon> top lfet
<popey> oh, i see
<popey> good spot!
 * knightwise wonders if he will have to pay popey royalties now.
<oimon> this video is too long and i'm getting hungry..why didn't you like the taransformer?
<knightwise> cuz its not a netbook and neither a real tablet
<knightwise> it looks and feels like a laptop
<knightwise> but it doesnt act like a laptop
<oimon> only when the kb is connected
<popey> i thought it was quite nice
<ali1234> i have not been able to determine any difference between "netbook" and "laptop"
<popey> played with one at uupc recording
<knightwise> popey: what did you think of it ?
<popey> nice device
<oimon> if i had the money to spend on a tablet, i would choose the transformer over the gal tab
<ali1234> although i do think that convertibles are too heavy to use as tablets
<popey> the transformer isnt thatheav
<popey> also like that the tablet charges from the keyboard when it's docked
<oimon> typing on a tablet touch screen is a pain
<oimon> i think that an optional keyboard suddenly makes a tablet more useful
<ali1234> well so is typing on a netbook
<ali1234> typing on anything that isn't a full size proper good keyboard sucks
<ali1234> basically anything that isn't a model M
<popey> heh
 * popey hugs his model m
<ali1234> i have the minimalist lexmark version
<ali1234> unfortunately it doesn't work properly on modern computers
<ali1234> i don't think they supply enough current on PS/2
<ali1234> i am currently using logitech G19
<ali1234> and for a Â£100 keyboard, the key actions is ramarkably bad
<MartijnVdS> Lexmark is used to building cheap hardware.. but keyboards don't work on expensive ink ;)
<ali1234> lexmark built all the later model M keyboards to the exact same design, but they also made a small model with the same keys but a much smaller body
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/keyboard1.jpg
<popey> \o/ Altoids!
<MooDoo> hello all
<oimon> android users may have noticed a new option in the android market which is autochecked : show ads based on interests
<MartijnVdS> but you can uncheck
<oimon> yes
<MartijnVdS> it's been there for months now
<oimon> that's the problem
<oimon> :)
<oimon> only just noticed it
<oimon> however, if it means that i don't get ads for stephen fry books every 5 seconds on the market app, then i'm all for it
<oimon> anyone know anything about the google ebooks format?
<oimon> read a whole article on the telegraph that didn't mention the format
<DJones> oimon: I think they're mostly epub or pdf formats
<DJones> http://books.google.com/help/ebooks/content.html This page only seems to mention epub & pdf
<oimon> DJones: does epub allow drm?
<dwatkins> http://books.google.com/help/ebooks/content.html yeah, as DJones says
<DJones> yes it does (it seems from that page)
<oimon> ah, didn't know that
<oimon> but epub doesn't work on kindle AFAIK
<DJones> correct
<Azelphur> does 127.0.0.1 have a bandwith limit?
<DJones> Its the one major format thats missing
<oimon> and you can't convert DRM laden epub
<Azelphur> I want to stream a 320x240 display down it, so 320x240 = 76800 * 3 (3 bytes per pixel) = 230400 / 1024 = 225KB per frame, call it 10 FPS that's around 2.2MB/sec
<MooDoo> hi all
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: not beyond the rate at which the kernel can sling packets
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> is 2.2MB/sec a reasonable requirement? or should I be trying to do this a different way
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: hows the new one the older one and the prettier one? :D
<MooDoo> we're all fine, the new one is still on aus time, the older one is in their terrible 3's period and czajkowski is fine :D
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> Azelphur: you don't need to keep resending it
<ali1234> G15 only updates the display when something changes on it, or "every now and then"
<Myrtti> electricity â¥ power company decided to cut off power to cut off trees... time to go make breakfast tea and toast
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, but there's some pretty hefty stuff for the G19 that will most definitely need a decent framerate
 * czajkowski peers at MooDoo brat
<Azelphur> ali1234: like WoW supports minimizing the game to the G19 and playing it while tabbed out, for example
<czajkowski> gord: you're off the hook MooDoo is back
<ali1234> Azelphur: well localhost will trivially support than anyway
<Azelphur> ok :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you see my photo last night? I got the fb up
<ali1234> seen it now
<ali1234> good work
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oi not a brat :p
<Azelphur> ty, I got gamepanel-wine talking g15daemon protocol :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: run for pity's sake man Ireland got booted out of the cup by a young welsh team czajkowski is a bit upset :D
<Azelphur> but I do need to make my own protocol, there's some stuff g15daemon protocol doesn't do a lot
<czajkowski> davmor2: and so did England so shrup ya pup
<MooDoo> davmor2: NZ for the cup....
<davmor2> czajkowski: England weren't beaten by a bunch of upstarts though Ireland were :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'd shutup, we were beaten by france of all people...who previously lost to tonga....
<czajkowski> davmor2: I suggest biting your tongue there right now
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know that but I'm picking on czajkowski here
<czajkowski> and don't go any further
<MooDoo> davmor2: she'd win
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know but it's fun :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's prettier than you today so i'm on her side :p
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski another consolation hug
<davmor2> MooDoo: are you saying I'm ever prettier than czajkowski cause if that's the case I can say what I want she'll be gunning for you :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: er no lol
<Monsterwizard> oh god
<Monsterwizard> shell shocked
<Monsterwizard> finite automata
<Monsterwizard> serious business now
<davmor2> czajkowski: nice catch on the bristol open source thing :)
<czajkowski> amusing I used to work for the other company
<davmor2> czajkowski: Their loss I'm sure :)
<Azelphur> oh hey that's interesting, I just noticed youtube implemented some kind of smart buffering that doesn't waste bandwith, been waiting for it to do that
<Azelphur> it shoves the buffer as fast as it can at you (Burst to 1.5MB/sec for me) then once you've got a bit of buffer, it slows right down to like 60KB/sec
<hamitron> Azelphur, how will that work if my connection is slower than the stream?
 * hamitron likes to buffer the whole thing
<Azelphur> hamitron: fine, because the slow down is still faster than the video comes in
<hamitron> ah, ofc
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> long day
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> it's a sensible decision, stops people watching the first 5 seconds of a video, then thinking "nah" after having downloaded the entire 100MB video at 5MB/sec
<Azelphur> or whatever
<hamitron> tbh, I think I may clock off
<hamitron> yep
<hamitron> and it will certainly have been in the interests of google
<hamitron> but also benefits the user
<czajkowski> iphone 4 s - iphone 4 steve
<hamitron> dead before it started? ;/
<davmor2> czajkowski: Wrong s is for sleeker, sexier, speedier, stylee  there have to be for of them you muppet
<dwatkins> like the 3GS, clearly
 * czajkowski gags davmor2 and sends him to the naugthystep 
<davmor2> czajkowski: already there :P
<MooDoo> czajkowski: take the gimp mask off please
<davmor2> MooDoo: you missed it czajkowski was on the #naughtystep
<MooDoo> davmor2: /join #naughtystep
<heeed> wow, gagging on the ubuntu channel...whatever next? :)
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> *grin*
<czajkowski> welcome back popey
<oimon> when editing switch configs, i find it impossible to type ctrl-Z without automatically typing bg afterwards :S
<davmor2> czajkowski: you know you just signed up for everyone to send you awesome note on twitter now right?
<czajkowski> see the video I posted
<czajkowski> it's one word that drives me crazy
<czajkowski> over used
<MooDoo> bird bird bird birs is the word
<czajkowski> and sounnds like brainless clueless people like the flim clueless
<davmor2> czajkowski: see there's you're problem you watch things like clueless
<davmor2> :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's trying to learn stuff ;)
 * davmor2 starts measuring MooDoo for his Coffin
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's miles away :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: technically the meaning on awesome is it has some awe,  awful would mean it was magnificent and full of awe maybe you should switch the words out and watch peoples faces
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> when i start glassfish service it shows pid and not processname as glassfish,
<kaushal> am i doing something wrong ?
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/705413/
<kaushal> basically 710 should be replaced by glassfish
<popey> kaushal: username is too long
<popey> kaushal: known issue with ps
<kaushal> popey: ok
<kaushal> popey: is it do something with the init.d script ?
<popey> 15:31:13 < popey> kaushal: known issue with ps
<kaushal> popey: ok
<popey> it always shows the user ID rather than user name when the name is longer than about 8 characters
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> popey: Thanks
<directhex> popey, not an issue. BYDESIGN!
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> 4 letter name usernames ftw \o/
<DJones> Ouch http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/10/toshiba_laptop_shoots_through_mans_hand/
<DJones> The spike looks more like a 6 inch round nail than something that could come out of a laptop
<AlanBell> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612063.stm
<gord> so the one thing i don't understand about whole thing, why is the raspberry pi being touted as the solution? i mean, its basically just a regular computer anyway
<AlanBell> it has the advantage of being cheap, and a bit rubbish
<AlanBell> and has no case
<gord> well, what i am getting at is, schools already have computers
<AlanBell> they do indeed, and they *could* be used for teaching
<AlanBell> but they are not *for* teaching computer science they are for teaching office skills
<gord> right, sure. 100% agree, but again how does the raspberry pi slot into this? why can't we just load up visual basic (or python or something or whatever) onto these machines?
 * brobostigon returns
<AlanBell> it is a marketing issue really
<MartijnVdS> that, and it's not just "running python or vb"
<MartijnVdS> You need to teach low-level things as well
<AlanBell> it is something the BBC can support
<gord> well obviously, thats what computer science courses teach, i just don't get the involvement of a small arm device is all
<Monsterwizard> I'm doing a CS course and have a chance to learn assembler <3
<MartijnVdS> gord: politics
<MartijnVdS> gord: also, if everyone has the same (known) hardware, that makes it easier to write good school books
<MartijnVdS> gord: (about them)
<AlanBell> ARM has a BBC heritage
<MartijnVdS> none of the "If you have WinME, do X, on Win7, do Y, on MacOS, you're on your own"
<AlanBell> and they are flattering the BBC and the good old days
<gord> now its if you have a raspberry pi do X, otherwise you are on your own?
<Seeker`> anyone else following the ARG?
<MartijnVdS> gord: Sure, but you could include the Raspberry PI with the book.. won't make it much more expensive
<gord> AlanBell figured it out weeks ago and i'm not smart enough :( its infuriating
<MartijnVdS> gord: (school book prices are extreme already)
<gord> collages with computer science departments have gotten along without dedicated devices for years, i just don't see any point
<Seeker`> Monsterwizard: assembler or assembly?
<gord> just bring the collage courses to the high schools and make the collage courses higher level
<Monsterwizard> assembler
<Monsterwizard> why gord?
<gord> you have lost me, why me?
<Seeker`> Monsterwizard: assembler is the program that converts assembly to machine code. "I'm going to learn assembler" is like saying "I'm going to learn compiler"
<Monsterwizard> no no
<Monsterwizard> you can learn assembler
<Seeker`> ...?
<Monsterwizard> assembler is the complier too
<Seeker`> yes, assembler is the compiler, not the language
<gord> you could certainly make the statement "i'm going to learn gcc" i think ;)
<Monsterwizard> lol
<Seeker`> gord: not sure what you'd actually be learning though :P
<gord> how not to shoot yourself in the foot with cflags
<mgdm> gord: don't run Gentoo. Simples.
<Monsterwizard> Seeker I suck :/
<Seeker`> Monsterwizard: hmm?
<AlanBell> gord: you are of course totally right, they have perfectly good hardware in schools already, and there are perfectly good languages they could teach
<furryrobot> The potential for kids to learn programming has never been greater.  I expect in practice only a minority will be interested though.
<AlanBell> this computer is different in that it looks like an arduino so is obviously not an office computer, it doesn't have a lot of power and is being marketed with the entire point of the thing to be learning
<AlanBell> not getting on the interwebs to buy new hats
<furryrobot> It would be a bonus if it has a coolness factor, and you can use it for something which annoys adults.
<gord> so basically, its a computer to force schools to teach programming on it because you can't really do anything else with it?
<AlanBell> gord: exactly
<AlanBell> and the BBC can market it
<gord> okay, one last question. who is buying all the new monitors with HDMI in to support the HDMI out on it? ;)
<AlanBell> HDMI to DVI works fine
 * bigcalm nods
<MartijnVdS> also, TVs do HDMI now
<gord> its been a long time since i was in a school ;) but they were all VGA back then
<bigcalm> 2 quid cable on amazon: HDMI -> DVI
<AlanBell> not-for-profit organisation behind it, and it is the conceptual successor to the BBC model B
<AlanBell> VGA output is a problem
<AlanBell> they were investigating abusing the DSP to do VGA signalling
<gord> i kinda just wish windows came with a slimmed down version of visual studio hidden away somewhere
<gord> kids are amazing, you give them a tool and they'll figure it out soon enough
<gord> its how i learnt the basics when i was a kid
<bigcalm> How the heck can mailto: not be supported on my android tablet?
<AlanBell> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ZXBasicManual/ <- best textbook ever
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Encouraging Membership - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/10/10/encouraging-membership/
<ali1234> gord: windows has a built in programming language (and i don't mean command.com)
<ali1234> it is basically visualbasic
<ali1234> gord: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Script_Host
<ali1234> AlanBell: abusing the DSP to do arbitrary signal generation is *exactly* what i need from it (not VGA though)
<ali1234> essentially i just want a software defined rx/tx that operates up to 10Mhz or so
<ali1234> it's not really a radio at those frequencies, but still gnu radio is probably the closest thing right now
<popey> Evening all.
<ali1234> i should probably just buy a FPGA board
<ali1234> would solve all my problems
<MartijnVdS> Buying FPGA boards won't get you women where I'm from
 * MartijnVdS tries to decide what music to listen to
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdms76XDyng
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: W to the T to the F
<ali1234> i dunno it just appeared in my subs
<ali1234> i lol'd
<shauno> AlanBell: I'm curious, have you ever installed osx?  (looking at the voiceover / a11y stuff)
<popey> oh golly
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-0MXklxHlQ
<shauno> heh, I know, osx should be pariah here.  but they get a lot of the accessibility stuff right
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: heard that one too much (ex-colleague liked it A LOT)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: try the original then
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBWrLhgiX74
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: have that on vinyl I think :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJv5qLsLYoo&feature=related
 * MartijnVdS listens to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5r3GoTAXcE
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914&feature=related
<ali1234> i've had all those bad lip reading songs stuck in my head for a week now
<ali1234> they are so catchy
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Bad lip reading?
<ali1234> especially "dirty spaceman"
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MufJJ9Yj8Mw
<ali1234> probably nsfw, if you listen too closely to the lyrics
<AlanBell> shauno: no
<shauno> AlanBell: I'm setting up a few VMs .. I'll try to record the process with a11y turned on one of them.  I think it's interesting :)
<AlanBell> yeah, would be interested to see how they do it
<AlanBell> I have heard it is quite good
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: But.. what?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what am I looking at?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and why doesn't it seem to match the original linked below?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: it's "bad lip reading" - they take the original video and make a whole new song to it, based on what it looks like they are singing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah
<ali1234> and every single one is better than the original
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not un-understandable lyrics mis-interpreted on purpose
<ali1234> nah the songs are completely different to the originals
<ali1234> at first they are just funny, but they are also really great pop songs as well
 * MartijnVdS watches a few more
<shauno> AlanBell: last time I tried (installing with voiceover on a machine with a dead screen) it had some niggles.  it's not flawless
<GirlyGirl> bye
<MartijnVdS> \o GirlyGirl
<shauno> apparently there's some magic key combinations you're expect to know in advance
<AlanBell> ctrl+s at the drums for ubuntu
<shauno> I mostly find this interesting because nothing has serial ports anymore.  a11y is important for me because it's easier to find a machine with a sound card, than a serial port
<AlanBell> serial ports for a braille tty?
<shauno> well, any tty
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> I want "installing headless servers" to be a use-case for the speech install
<shauno> I'm not impaired, but the hardware is increasingly so.  used to be I could bring a machine up headless with a serial cable
<AlanBell> I have headphones and a USB keyboard, I don't need a monitor
<shauno> which is again something osx is interesting for.  the installer boots with sshd live with the mac address as a root password
<AlanBell> that kind of scenario would be cool
<shauno> or the hardware s/n, I forget
<AlanBell> now that is something we *should* copy
<shauno> that's what's irking me.  it seems ubuntu is taking a lot of cues from the mac lately
<shauno> but it feels like they're taking all the wrong ones
<shauno> copy the stuff they get right, not the stuff they make pretty
<AlanBell> bug 764905 being prime example of copying the wrong stuff
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 764905 in Ayatana Design "Drag and drop a USB key into the trash should eject the USB key" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764905
<shauno> heh.  that's a hangup from pre-osx.  that has no place on osx, let alone anyone trying to copy the bits they do right
<shauno> if nothing else, I expect things thrown in the trash to be impermanent; I can undo with a keystroke
<ali1234> dropping a usb stick in the trash should delete all the files on it, then permanently brick it
<shauno> lol
<shauno> I don't know about brick it, but if it "initialized" the volume, then I pretty much got what I asked for
<MartijnVdS> They should fix it by making drag-usb-to-trash format the device without asking
<jacobw> why not pop a what-do-you-want-to-do dialogue when the usb icon hits the trash
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: because people don't want to choose -- they've already chosen!
<AlanBell> badly
<MartijnVdS> (to throw it in the trash)
<shauno> "huh?" is probably about the best response to a trashed keyring
<AlanBell> that is like people who habitually keep all their emails in the trash folder, because that has no quota on some systems
<shauno> ugh .. we get that with desktops.  the desktop isn't saved between sessions
<AlanBell> came across that once when I was doing support, had to close their mail client to do an upgrade, it asked me if I wanted to empty the trash as I closed the window, I said yes without thinking
<shauno> ~/Desktop is /tmp for most people
<MartijnVdS> shauno: only because /tmp is so full of sockets, pipes and other assorted cruft
<jacobw> does anyone use /tmp as its intended?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I have lots of "try.pl" etc. in there
<BigRedS>  /join #linuxoutlaws
<BigRedS> urk
<popey> BigRedS: i think you mean /join #sixgun
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<BigRedS> popey: aha, quite possibly. ta
<BigRedS> I've got distracted by something else now in any case :)
<czajkowski> evening chaparoos
<BigRedS> G'morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> BigRedS: hows things?
<BigRedS> I'm on the world's laggiest SSH session :( It's like typing through glue...
<BigRedS> you?
<popey> f
<popey> i
<popey> n
<popey> e
<czajkowski> trying to figure out how to register at my embassy over here
<czajkowski> and also sort out my british passport
<czajkowski> love paperwork
<BigRedS> is 'over here' still England?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: yup
<czajkowski> I'm here 11 months and 3 weeks now
<czajkowski> :o
<BigRedS> ah, I'm not used to, er, here being 'over here'
<popey> BigRedS: you coming out to play on thursday?
<BigRedS> popey: yeah, should be
<popey> yay
<BigRedS> I can't remember the circumstances in which I can't, but I'm pretty sure there are some
<BigRedS> oh, that's a point. I need to learn this gpg thing for your email :)
<popey> âº
<czajkowski> oh I can finally see that large smiley
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> popey: how do you do the smiley like that
<BigRedS> Unicode? No, that's being put off indefinitely :)
<popey> ã
<popey> is also nice :D
<hamitron> can't see that last one
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> oh tis
<czajkowski> (:)
<czajkowski> nope
<popey> â¨
<hamitron> or that
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> i have aliases in irc, so I do : ) and get âº
<popey> and : ( and get â¹
<popey> and : s and get â¨
<czajkowski> :  )
<czajkowski> :  )
<czajkowski>  : )
<popey> without the spaces
<hamitron> :/
<popey> you have to define the aliases :D
<czajkowski> bugger
<popey> ask paultag
<popey> he did it
<popey> also ->
<czajkowski> naturally
<popey> er â
<popey> and â
<czajkowski> ohh funky
<hamitron> will mess up any C code you paste ;/
 * Laney uses the compose key for such
 * BigRedS uses old-fashioned smileys
<hamitron> old boring and reliable ftw
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> I have, occasionally, been called a luddite...
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/10/10/encouraging-membership/  if you know people who should be going for membership, why not give them a  nudge
<bigcalm> I wonder how I can get Synergy to handle more char codes. AltGr + i gives me nothing on this screen
 * AlanBell updates pictures on http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<ali1234> i should submit a patch to OBS to use âº instead of : in filename
<ali1234> because : just isn't annoying enough
 * BigRedS wonders how painful this newsnight is going to be
<hamitron> BigRedS, what is the subject?
<BigRedS> There's talk that it's about actually teaching IT in IT lessons
<BigRedS> but, er, it's the Arts minister explaining
<hamitron> I can't see the point in teaching a lot of IT tbh
<hamitron> the younger generation pick a lot up as required
<BigRedS> yeah, but it'd be nice if they learnt more than just what was required
<hamitron> so I'd sack that minister and save a bit of money
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> also, no point in learning tech in some parts of the country
<hamitron> the country (at least the UK), is going to fragment as areas are cut off from lack of services
<hamitron> I suspect some will take a step back and stop using IT so much at this rate
<jacobw> unix skills are like an tab file of generally useful paradigms
<BigRedS> The talk is of school-level education
<BigRedS> it's not to send people to get a job in $subject, it's because knowledge of $subject will be useful whatever they go on to do
<hamitron> I guess word processing can be useful
<BigRedS> no, that's the point
<BigRedS> teaching *actual* IT
<hamitron> what do you consider IT?
<AlanBell> have they talked about it yet?
<BigRedS> how computers work
<BigRedS> no
<BigRedS> they're talking about liam fox
<AlanBell> yeah, watching that now
<hamitron> oh, I thought IT was using a computer, where as Computing is how it works :D
<AlanBell> hamitron: ICT is what they call useless teaching
<BigRedS> oh, perhaps. I don't know. Either way, the things kids should learn in IT lessons are what you'd call compting
<BigRedS> word processing belongs in English lessions, using spreadsheets in maths ones.
<hamitron> spreadies are not maths
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> information technology is about processes independent of what performs the process imo
<BigRedS> IT shouldn't be "how to do other subjects with computers"
<BigRedS> aren't they? I've only ever usd them for stats
<AlanBell> yeah, and they are fine for doing that
<BigRedS> but, still, my brother's IT coursework was basically doing stats in Excel. That should have been maths coursework.
<BigRedS> A lot of the IT curriculum isn't really IT so much as other subjects but on computers
 * jacobw agrees
<hamitron> from what I've seen, kids lack basic Maths and English skills. need to learn how to write before they worry about typing things up
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> learning how to do a bubble sort is computing
<BigRedS> well, yes. I'm not saying the rest of the education system isn't broken :)
<AlanBell> learning why not to do one is advanced computing
<StevenR> IT (as taught in UK secondary schools) isn't much about computers, but more about generating vast amounts of pointless paperwork.
<bigcalm> Computing or confusing? ;)
<jacobw> i think computers are used to coerce kids in to doing english and maths
<AlanBell> but any kind of learning about algorithms is great
 * StevenR wishes there was more about algortthms, how things actually work, basic networking, etc.
<hamitron> I think the main thing I got against computers.... they can be used to reduce the need to think for yourself. same problem with calculators
<hamitron> ban them all till they are 14
<hamitron> ;)
<StevenR> hamitron: my primary school pretty much never let me use a calculator
<BigRedS> nah, as with calculators, the questions just need to be rephrased
<AlanBell> depends totally on what you are asking them to do
<jacobw> teachers can't teach what they don't know, and most don't know their subject
<StevenR> hamitron: I consider that good teaching :)
<BigRedS> or, perhaps, the notion that you need to be able to not use them needs to be questioned
<hamitron> StevenR, same :)
<jacobw> in my experience at least, my secondary math teacher didn't have an A level in maths :|
<hamitron> jacobw, :-o
<BigRedS> jacobw: really?
<jacobw> yes, for years 7 to 9
<BigRedS> that's not right
<jacobw> i didn't know this until we were doing our GCSEs and he was studying inline with us for his AS exams
<hamitron> sounds about right
 * hamitron sighs
<KrimZon_2> somehow in xubuntu beta, firefox freezes xorg for several seconds whenever I try to customize the toolbars
<jacobw> that's odd
<jacobw> have you looked fora matching bug report?
<KrimZon_2> I've googled around
<BigRedS> ah, they're talking about computers now
<BigRedS> and failed with the 10 people binary joke...
<jacobw> what programme is this?
<hamitron> "no signal"
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> at least the text is crystal clear
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> jacobw: Newsnight, BBC2
<hamitron> brb, coffee
<BigRedS> Oh. Ed Vaizey's insane
<mgdm> He's a politician, that's almost a tautology
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> well that was interesting
<KrimZon_2> aha, I switched to the recommended nvidia drivers and it seems to work better now
<bigcalm> Freedom isn't all it's cracked up to be ;)
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<daftykins> nn brobostigon o/
<daftykins> brobostigon: hehe, i greeted you this morning, slept, then said g'night :D
<daftykins> my sleep pattern is officially funky.
<daftykins> guys does alt+f2 still work even in the newer unity'd ubuntus?
<daftykins> to get a run dialogue
<daftykins> just helping someone but haven't touched the latest versions
<JohnRobert> I wonder if wifi works in 10.10
<JohnRobert> :/
<JohnRobert> wait
<JohnRobert> it's 2011 isn't it
<JohnRobert> lol I can't even pronounce the new one
<funkyHat> daftykins: yes
<funkyHat> The run dialog looks just like the dash, but you still type normal commands into it
<daftykins> ah well, gitso wouldn't work so the person couldn't get me to connect in so i gave up
<funkyHat> This reply is probably a bit too late though â¢D
<daftykins> nah that's cool, thanks anyway :)
<daftykins> rather one than none!
<daftykins> JohnRobert: oh-near-ick? :)
<daftykins> it was a weird one that, this person's windows xp install shutdown at boot, so dualbooting with ubuntu he/she was trying to scan it with clamav
<daftykins> only the windosw partition didn't show up on the places menu
<AlanBell> JohnRobert: install the new one then run "spd-say oneiric ocelot" in a terminal session
<AlanBell> we tweaked the pronunciation :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: got any suggestions on where I should listen inside this DLL for reply packets? (button presses, etc)
<ali1234> there should be a function for that?
<Azelphur> ali1234: maybe KeyHandler? If it gets called repeatedly
<Azelphur> I don't get it though, do the applications call these functions? if so surely we shouldn't be relying on that
<daftykins> Azelphur: you playing with some kinda blackbox DLL for funsies? :>
<Azelphur> daftykins: something like that o.O
<daftykins> heh
<Azelphur> daftykins: attempting to add wine support for gaming keyboards
<Azelphur> ali1234: reverse engineered most of the dll I'm trying to make it talk to the Linux driver :D
<JohnRobert> interesting
<JohnRobert> what's so different about gaming keyboards?
<Azelphur> JohnRobert: onboard LCD display that games display fun things on
<daftykins> Azelphur: ah, should've known ;)
<daftykins> do many really support it?
<Azelphur> yep
<daftykins> anything very recent?
<Azelphur> daftykins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_G15#Game_and_application_support
<daftykins> ta!
<Azelphur> daftykins: oh hey this is a better/more official list http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/68/554 :p
<Azelphur> hahaha, "World of Warcraft Cataclysium" :D
<daftykins> can't say i understand it myself
<daftykins> when i'm playing a game i'm looking at the screen ;D
<Azelphur> daftykins: the world of warcraft one is quite cool, it lets you minimize the game to the G19 while your tabbed out :)
<JohnRobert> that is cool
<JohnRobert> not that I play games, but that's quite a nice feature
<Azelphur> yea
<daftykins> oh man
<daftykins> Dodgy are playing in Brighton next month
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> anyone remember them?
<daftykins> guess not
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> "Staying out for the Summer" ?
<daftykins> "If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me...?"
<daftykins> 90s band
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-11
<JohnRobert> I remember dodgy
<JohnRobert> mind you, I'm almost 30
<JohnRobert> and my hair is falling out
<daftykins> JohnRobert: thank you! that's ok, i'm 26 but i know them
<ball> What is it now, 4am?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Keeping The Feedback Train Rolling - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/11/keeping-the-feedback-train-rolling/
<czajkowski> aloha
<GirlyGirl> Morning
<ball> Hello GirlyGirl
<ball> Hey, is anyone here from Somerset, or at least somewhat familiar with it?
<BigRedS> ball, what's the actual question?
<danfish> morning - who broke twitter?
<BigRedS> works for me :)
<danfish> working here now. #blameczajkowski ;)
<czajkowski> oi
<popey> morning
<danfish> czajkowski: just checking that irc wasn't bust as well
<popey> M3 is broken this morning
<popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.338334,-0.777283&spn=0.183596,0.425377&t=h&z=12&vpsrc=6&layer=t
<danfish> ouch - you caught in it?
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> no
<popey> working from home with a sick child
<MooDoo> :(
<vibhav> Queens english!
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> mornin
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<dwatkins> Myrtti: you should have an extra gig on spideroak now.
<dwatkins> also, good morning all
<Myrtti> dwatkins: ooh, wow, thank you
<dwatkins> thank you, Myrtti - your referral was what did it :) I just mailed them to ask they add it after I'd set my account up.
<dwatkins> They were quite responsive, considering I only have a free account.
<AlanBell> morning all
<dwatkins> hi AlanBell
<shauno> the referral bonus is 1GB?  I used Myrtti's link too   lol
<Myrtti> â¥
<czajkowski> popey: awwwww poor sick kid
 * TheOpenSourcerer needs a bigger and more reliable phone: http://www.t3.com/news/samsung-galaxy-note-uk-release-date-officially-confirmed :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah 1280x800 resolution.
<AlanBell> nice screen!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: try not and lose it :p
<AlanBell> I haven't lost my galaxy S2
<AlanBell> it is here somewhere
<Joeb454> seriously? A 5.3" screen?
 * Joeb454 thinks 4.x" is a little too big for a phone, but that's just ridiculous
<TheOpenSourcerer> My current phone is 5.0"
<Joeb454> TheOpenSourcerer: I guess you'd be hard pushed to forget it was in your pocket
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ask AlanBell about that.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They keep saying how unique a form factor it is, but it is very similar to my Dell Streak - Just made by a better company and newer technology.
<popey> er
<popey> it has a pointing device
<TheOpenSourcerer> it has an [optional] pointing device
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's use is not necessary, but seems like a nice idea to scribble notes etc.
<Joeb454> It's like it's trying to be a tablet, but trying to make sure it doesn't compete with the tablet market
<Joeb454> so basically, trying to fill a gap that never really existed
 * popey expects there will be a good market for new pointers
<hoover> morning all
<popey> because people lose them
<TheOpenSourcerer> The form factor is about right for me - I use data services more than voice. But I still need voice and would like it in the same device.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Samsung is significantly lighter than my current Streak, yet has a bigger and much higher res screen.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And a bigger battery ;-)
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<popey> lo
<popey> my new phone arrives this week âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> Let's have a sweepstake to guess what it will be. ;-)
<diplo> I need a phone :( - Can't afford one and don't want to go contract so 6230i it is again :(
<popey> heh
<popey> I'd go back to Android if anyone made a decent phone :D
<diplo> Galaxy S2 is decent imo, everyone I know who has one is very happy
<Joeb454> popey: I take it you ordered a 4S?
<diplo> couple of them prefer to iphone
<popey> yup
<diplo> S3 specs supposedly leaked yesterday
<diplo> dual core 1.8ghz proc!!!! jeesh
<popey> I have yet to hold an android phone that didnt feel like cheap plastic rubbish
<MartijnVdS> popey: Nexus One
<MartijnVdS> it's metal! :)
<popey> observe 'feel'
 * BigRedS just proved his observation that if you need coffee you're in no fit state to make it :(
<popey> spillage?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it feels very metal to me, compared to my previous phone (HTC Magic), which was pure plastic
<BigRedS> hah, yeah. I just plonked the cafetiere lid on and go coffee all over the place
<BigRedS> not on me, which is fine
<popey> ah
<BigRedS> though that might have woken me up somewhat
<selinuxium> diplo, I have the S2 and it is fabulous...
<DJones> diplo: 1.8ghz proc, sheesh, I thought the Nexus Prime was looking good with a 1.5Ghz
<diplo> I want an s2 :/
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the Prime
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Note is actually somewhat shorter than the Streak and is almost the in same sq mm.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Note:
<TheOpenSourcerer> 146.85 x 82.95 x 9.65 mm, 178g
<TheOpenSourcerer> Streak
<TheOpenSourcerer> 152.4 x 78.74 x 10.16 mm, 218g
<MartijnVdS> I can't stand the "customizations"  on other phones
<selinuxium> diplo, http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/878154-samsung-galaxy-s-ii-beats-apple-iphone-to-best-phone-at-t3-awards
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: popey will ignore this and state categorically that the iPhone is better ;-)
<popey> wow, thats heavy
<popey> feel free to ignore the truth :D
<popey> iphone is 140g
<MartijnVdS> no it's 4g
<MartijnVdS> :P
<popey> wakka wakka
<DJones> Question to always ask, does it do what you want? If Yes, its the best phone for you :)
<MartijnVdS> Hah, but my phone can make calls.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I'm able to carry 218g around without an issue. 178g is amazing for a device of that size.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 4 what?
<popey> yeah, i am not that bothered by weight
<shauno> making calls is pretty much an optional extra on mine.  I used 47 seconds out of my 300 minutes last month
<popey> i thought the iphone 4 was considered 'heavy' though
<diplo> DJones, I totally agree, I like the iphone
<diplo> Itunes was a big bug bear with me
<popey> yeah, no need for that anymore
<popey> finally!
<shauno> heh, it's free of itunes assuming your sole source of tunes is itms :/
<popey> no
<MartijnVdS> u1ms?
<popey> spotify
<MartijnVdS> I still can't get used to that myself
 * gord still buys music like a smuck
<MartijnVdS> But then, I still buy CDs
<diplo> gord, Me to :)
<Joeb454> +1 for spotify, though it doesn't have everything I want to listen to, it has a lot of it
<MartijnVdS> Joeb454: youtube has the rest? :P
<oimon> have apple removed the requirement for itunes now?
<shauno> spotify isn't available in ireland yet :(
<oimon> shauno: grooveshark?
<diplo> think so oimon
<Joeb454> MartijnVdS: awkward to listen to youtube on the go though :P
<Joeb454> oimon: they have for the setup, and you could back-up to icloud if you didn't want to sync with itunes
<popey> oimon: yes
<MartijnVdS> Joeb454: Spotify on the go is iffy as well over here
<MartijnVdS> Joeb454: you can't get "unlimited" mobile data anymore, only up to 1GB
<Joeb454> MartijnVdS: I sync the playlists I want on the go locally to the phone
<MartijnVdS> Joeb454: (the Netherlands)
<Joeb454> MartijnVdS: can't get unlimited here either :(
<popey> MartijnVdS: i sync the music to device
<MartijnVdS> popey: I thought Spotify was all streaming?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Nope
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> you can download
<popey> i have thousands of tracks on my phone
<bigcalm> But you still have to be able to login to access the content you have downloaded
<popey> no you dont
<popey> you can go fully offline
<popey> you just have to go online again within a month or so
<bigcalm> Oh, news to me :)
<bigcalm> Ah
<Joeb454> MartijnVdS: I believe you need spotify premium to sync locally though
<oimon> if you unsubscribe from spotify you lose all your offline stuff i suppose?
<bigcalm> Yes, the mobile app won't work without a premium account
<popey> wonder if anyone has decrypted the spotify tracks :D
<selinuxium> popey, for some reason my Spotify now requests that it is online when you start it up, making it useless for me if I want to turn it on on the tube.. Is that just me or do you have issue switching the app on while it is in force offline or the data is unavailable?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> ARGH!
<bigcalm> Why is Absolute 80s playing non-80s music?
<selinuxium> popey, no to which part?  :)
<popey> no to having any issues with it
<oimon> bigcalm: what song?
<Joeb454> bigcalm: do they have a 'give or take 3 years' policy?
<GirlyGirl> bigcalm: Maybe time machines existed in the 80's
<bigcalm> It was a track from 2000+ era
<bigcalm> Humm, 80s, 90s and Absolute radio all playing the same stream
<selinuxium> popey: also, my desktop app (Native Linux) always ask for the T&Cs to be accepted on each start up. DO you use it? Is that apparent in your setup?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<oimon> bigcalm: anyone from the 80s knows you shouldn't cross the streams!
<bigcalm> I couldn't take it. Switched to 6 music for a bit
<oimon> Q music is quite good too
<Joeb454> selinuxium: I've not come across that, it does tell me there was an error each time I start up, and that I'm running on an unsupported platform though
<MartijnVdS> http://www.pinguinradio.nl/
<popey> selinuxium: no
<BigRedS> selinuxium: is that Spotify? I got that until I upgraded to the version that complains that I'm on an unsupported platform
<BigRedS> This is a relatively unobtrusive bug, though, so I'm loathe to upgrde and see what's broken next
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Hey fella, Maybe there is an update out there I haven't got... :)
<BigRedS> selinuxium: perhaps. I've definitely not had that 'agree to the T&Cs' thing pop up since I got the unsupported platform thing
<BigRedS> I can't remember if there was an upgrade in between, though
<popey> selinuxium: coming out to play on thursday?
<oimon> beefy miracle is actually the new fedora name? fantastic!
<bigcalm> popey: got a moment free?
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> Cool
<MooDoo> oimon: it took ages to get that name, we tried it for F15 but it got beat
<oimon> i would use it in tribute
<oimon> for one cycle only :)
<oimon> on my test box :)
<MooDoo> oimon: http://beefymiracle.org/
<oimon> i want the t-shirt
<andylockran> howdy all
<BigRedS> If anything's going to get me to use yum again, it's that codename
<AlanBell> MooDoo: so how did they get from Verne to Beefy Miracle?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: Beefy Miracle is a name suggested for Fedora 16. Verne is also a name suggested for Fedora 16
<AlanBell> how delightfully meta
<danfish> Jules Verne invented marmite, hence the beefy reference
<popey> wut
<popey> marmite isnt made from beef
<bigcalm> It's made from beer
<AlanBell> danfish: the naming convention is "X+1 is a $foo, X is also a $foo"
<DJones> Vegemite -> Marmite :)
<danfish> s/marmite/bovril/taste-hell ;)
<popey> weirdo
<danfish> :)
 * gord had a good giggle at everyone thinking marmite is made from cows
<DJones> That would be "moomite"
<bigcalm> Even bovril is made of vegetarians
<bigcalm> s/of/for
<BigRedS> is it?
<BigRedS> oh, there'a a vegetarian form of it
<DJones> To make all the ipad owners who really, really, really need an app for it, you can now get a facebook app :)
<popey> yeah, i tried it last night
<popey> wish google would do the same for G+
<popey> The ipad Twitter app is hands down the best twitter app on any platform
<DJones> There's an android app for G+ I thought they'd done an ipad app
<popey> there's an iphone app, but not an ipad one
<DJones> Right, that must be what I'd seen
<BigRedS> I just want to make G+ talk or listen to Twitter
<popey> DJones: it scales up on ipad, and looks like arse âº
<BigRedS> I (briefly) tried c+ping posts, and I've decided that's more hassle than I can be bothered with
<bigcalm> You can't just use iPhone apps on an iPad?
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> thats what I do bigcalm
<popey> unless I am in a hurry
<popey> I'll generally compose on twitter and paste over
<popey> and even download from twitpic and re-upload to g+ and fb
<popey> â¹
<DJones> I think my next target for a phone is either the S3 or Nexus Prime, and a Motorola Xoom as a tablet
<DJones> Since when does BBC official twitter accounts have adverts?
<bigcalm> Maybe it's run like the RadioTimes
<DJones> Wierd, even stranger is that I don't have that BBc account on my "follow" list
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Retweeted by somebody else then
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning DJones
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<brobostigon> sorry DJones
<DJones> Ah, sorted, somebody sent a personal tweet advertising giffgaf from their bbc twitter account by mistake
<oimon> i like it when the official account of big companies sent pocket tweets Xisjods,cfsd that don't get deleted
<oimon> wow, libreoffice up to 3.4 already. http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm so happy your back dude :)  So czajkowski she said so, and so's gord cause now czajkowski isn't picking on him in your stead :)
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 and MooDoo to the naughty step 
<czajkowski> brats
<BigRedS> me really wishes people would take advantage of sensible defaults
 * MooDoo has a crush on czajkowski :)
<BigRedS> er. /me
<davmor2> czajkowski: we're there already just waiting on you're arrival shouldn't take long
<czajkowski> MooDoo: lack of sleep is showing there lad
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1283/detail/ loadsa people
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah i think so, but it was a compliment as well :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: how was your lens have you done it yet?
<MooDoo> 22nd oct
<davmor2> hahaha I like thisisthecountdown.com today
<andylockran> I'm just massively confused by it.
<Joeb454> andylockran: me too
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/64284/what-does-thisisthecountdown-com-count-down-to
<andylockran> AlanBell: that doesn't help :p
<AlanBell> the hex codes of the colours in those vertical bars are a clue
<AlanBell> they can be decoded to a URL
<Joeb454> AlanBell: what about the error code?
<AlanBell> 0x575341 is HEX for WSA
<AlanBell> 484558 is hex for hex
<AlanBell> which is pointing you to decode the colour bars
<bigcalm> #4A2E6D #702F61 #65726F #737061 #636572
<oimon> i think there's a irc room for this
<AlanBell> #awholenewworld
<bigcalm> Nothing else going on in here ;)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: now put that in the hex box here http://home2.paulschou.net/tools/xlate/ and decode
<AlanBell> J.mp/aerospacer which is a URL
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> No flash, time to download
<oimon> does anyone know why i can't "telnet mailserver 25" from a windows server? the firewall is off
<andylockran> oimon: probably isp blocking port 25?
<oimon> on my internal network, all other linux clients can do it
<MooDoo> what's the error?
<oimon> oh, i disabled mcafee on access protection and it works
<oimon> there's some hidden configs that are to stop mass emailing worms
<AlanBell> really pleased at 34-59 people signed up to the release party on Thursday
<bigcalm> I won't be able to make it :(
<bigcalm> Plugging my headphones into my android tablet is giving some seriously good sounds. Better than having them plugged into my work station
<bigcalm> Most strange
<bigcalm> Nice music, I could see it being used in tv adverts or a film presentation
<davmor2> AlanBell: all that for that I depressed now
<AlanBell> davmor2: that is just the next clue, not the end of the game
<davmor2> AlanBell: oh man there's more....../me needs to deaf it out now and go do some work
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<MooDoo> that wasn't nice czajkowski
<monsterrr> OK I need to know my history
<monsterrr> on the british side of computing
<monsterrr> any recommeded sites, books, articles ?
<MooDoo> wikipedia ;)
<monsterrr> meh
<oimon> monsterr  watch micromen , a bbc programme
<oimon> acorn vs sinclair
<MooDoo> how about reading up on blechly park :)
<oimon> and read register articles on acorn and psion
<oimon> plus the world's first stored instruction  computer at Manchester
<brobostigon> do i need to logout/login for update-alternatives changes to kick in?
<monsterrr> I'm on it :)
<oimon> have fun monsterrr, those were great days :D
<bigcalm> Maybe they are going to shoot sabofl into space?
<bigcalm> sabdfl
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: Is your experience on 11.10 good? All GTK 3 apps have a laggy UI for me
<brobostigon> sabdfl*
<directhex> micro men is split into bits on youtube, fwiw
<AlanBell> GirlyGirl: working fine so far
<davmor2> monsterrr: Goto Bletchley Park!
<monsterrr> I live near it I think
<bigcalm> I like to go, not sure if Hayley would be that interested though
<davmor2> bigcalm: My wife a non tech loved it,  the tour guides really bring it to life
<oimon> how much does it cost?
<bigcalm> Aha, cool
<oimon> is it ok to take toddlers to?
<monsterrr> can you actually go in the buliding
<DJones> My wife would be totally bored, if it doesn't run facebook or 2nd life, she's not interested
<AlanBell> bletchly is cool
<brobostigon> :)
<oimon> adults  Â£12.00, parking Â£3
<oimon> All tickets for Bletchley Park are now valid for as many visits you would like during the 12 month period from time of purchase
<directhex> bletchley is cool, yeah
<directhex> well, as cool as it can be given it's in milton keynes now
<brobostigon> directhex: do i have to logout/login for update-alternatives to take affect?
<oimon> i need to read the enigma book first to get the most out of it. i'm on page 1 :-\
<directhex> brobostigon, no. update-laternatives just changes symlinks in /usr/bin
<brobostigon> directhex: ok, thank you.
<brobostigon> issue being, when i try and open a url, from terminal, it isnt obaying, what i set in update-alternatives.
<directhex> opening it with what?
<brobostigon> it open with iceweasel, insted of inside chromium, that i have it set to.
<directhex> there are five places the default browser might be read from.
<brobostigon> ok.
<directhex> x-www-browser alternative, www-browser alternative, $BROWSER environment, gnome default applications widget, and the kde equivalent
<directhex> gnome-default-applications-properties
<brobostigon> www-browser is set to w3m.
<directhex> run that, check which browser it's set to
<brobostigon> i checked that one, quickly.
<brobostigon> $browser, that in bash config, minute.
<andylockran> guys, I want to receive an email, each time /usr/bin/convert is run
<andylockran> if I create a /usr/local/bin/convert - can I get that to email me, then run /usr/bin/convert on what was passed to the command?
<andylockran> or is there a more 'elegant' way ?
<brobostigon> directhex: there is no $BROWSER set, in bashrc that i can see.
<directhex> nope, that's the normal way
<directhex> brobostigon, dunno then. might be set in another place
<directhex> linux is fun!
<brobostigon> directhex: i am just checking gnomes default settings.
<brobostigon> weird, in gnome's default applications thingie, all other options are chooseable, other than web browser, which is blanked out.
<oimon> brobostigon: probably a new feature :D 20% of users didn't use it or something
<brobostigon> oimon: that is not logical, as the other default options, are there, and changable. if you logic is right, then why show the option at all, blanked out or otherwise.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: probably because you don't have multiple browsers installed?
<oimon> i was joking , based on the other silly gnome choices
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i stripped everything back to a single browser. also there is only one mail client installed, mutt, and it is giving me a dropdown, as if there is more than one option. not blanked out.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: hm, strange
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: quite, yes.
<andylockran> or is there a more 'elegant' way ?
<oimon> when i ask users "have you changed your password in the last 3 years", i wish they wouldn't lie if they aren't sure :-\
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it's a shame thing -- they know they SHOULD say "yes, I have"
<AlanBell> !info tsclient
<lubotu3> tsclient (source: tsclient): front-end for viewing of remote desktops in GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 0.150-4ubuntu2 (natty), package size 295 kB, installed size 592 kB
<AlanBell> !info tsclient oneiric
<lubotu3> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<AlanBell> E: Package 'tsclient' has no installation candidate
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient
<MooDoo> bloomin eck what a day so far
<bigcalm> In PHP, you can set the local timezone to be UTC (or whatever) so that all time manipulation functions make sense no matter where they are done in the world. Is it possible to do the same with JavaScript?
<diplo> bigcalm, afaik you can't
<diplo> But there is a file called php.js that implements php functions in js
<diplo> Just found after a quick look round
<bigcalm> Found http://stackoverflow.com/questions/439630/how-do-you-create-a-javascript-date-object-with-a-set-timezone-without-using-a-st
<bigcalm> Wondering if the top answer will help
<bigcalm> Yeah, php.js is great. Not sure about setting of local timezones though
<diplo> I've never used it, or had this issue so far, so not the best answer
<diplo> Seems others wouldn't touchphp.js with a barge pole
<bigcalm> :)
<gord> huh, pm got major isp's to make pornography websites opt in, scary times.
<gord> wonder what will get blocked next
<brobostigon> social networking?
<brobostigon> using the recent riots as an excuse,
<oimon> drains?
<brobostigon> beer?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: the nice gatwick flight is gone for the winter :(
<AlanBell> oh noes
 * AlanBell wonders if czajkowski will be coming round for turkey
<czajkowski> AlanBell: so getting the boat
<czajkowski> have warned the mothership
<czajkowski> not going through that flight lark again
<AlanBell> which boat?
<czajkowski> ferry from hollyhead to dublin
<AlanBell> probably best that time of year, Cork is a long crossing
<shauno> curious, flight lark?  never had a problem getting in & out myself
<AlanBell> never follow czajkowski to an airport
<shauno> heh.  gotcha
<Pendulum> shauno: you missed the saga of czajkowski flying home in the snow
<Pendulum> which turned into czajkowski taking the boat in the snow
<czajkowski> look that saga haunts me
<czajkowski> reason I will not fly out of heathrow!
<Pendulum> it was an epic tale ;-)
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/21/
<shauno> it is a shame they've all but given up on Shannon tho.  that always made my life much easier
 * MartijnVdS now has the ubuntu monospace font in his terminals
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/22/
<czajkowski> I can go via stansted
<czajkowski> but that's a 6am flight
<MooDoo> czajkowski: was going to say sounds like you're having fun until i read the date :)
<shauno> good lord, that does read like an epic trip.  luckily they don't get snowed in /that/ often
<shauno> reminds me, I really should try to figure out how I'm going to get home this christmas, since aer arann have stopped flying to newcastle :(
<czajkowski> shauno: aye the kicker was dublin, 3 carriage train and it broke down no reaso given what so ever then it started
<czajkowski> mum greated with trains planes and automobiles....... too soon, went to bed
<czajkowski> than feck I had twitter to let off steam
<czajkowski> it was an entertaining few days
<shauno> trains here are odd.  they're either completely fine, or completely catastrophic.  never anywhere in between
<shauno> (besides the fact they're only any use if you're going to dublin.  otherwise it's a bus)
<czajkowski> well sister had me booked on that train
<czajkowski> as there was a snow storm
<czajkowski> I dont want to relive that ever again
<czajkowski> saying that I got offers from people via twitter of places to stay for xmas if I stayed over
<czajkowski> my dad at one point said stay over here
<czajkowski> at which point I'm pretty sure I heard a shrill cry from the mothership
<shauno> mother keeps asking when I'm going to visit :/  unfortunately the answer is "when you don't live in alaska"
<gordonjcp> shauno: heh
<dwatkins> my mother keeps threatening to drive 400 miles and visit me. She'll have to stay in a hotel, though, as we have no spare bed anymore and pet rats in the lounge ;)
<shauno> what's stopping her?  400 miles is nothing!
<czajkowski> pet rats.........
<MooDoo> yuck
<popey> pet rats are cute
<oimon> neither cute nor tasty
<oimon> and they eat your clothes
<MooDoo> rat burger
<czajkowski> http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_03/pygmyhedgWEB1504_468x549.jpg
<czajkowski> that#s cute
<czajkowski> a rat is not cute and is not a pet have shivers gone down my back
<oimon> latest humble bundle doesn't work with intel gfx cards :-\
<oimon> hedgehogs have fleas and ticks
<oimon> and it is showing you its bum
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you're nuts
 * GirlyGirl thinks oimon is criticising her pet hedgehog
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oops sorry missread that
 * MooDoo needs sleep as today he's being an ass
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Don't think Spotify's model is sustainable like this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2011/10/11/spotify-loses-42-million-on-licensing-costs/
<gord> well thats interesting, i remember reading something the other day that claimed artists were getting next to nothing from spotify
<gord> hugely popular songs getting maybe a few hundred dollars or some such
<ali1234> just because the licensing fees are huge doesn't mean any of it goes to the artists
<AlanBell> nice to have a business that pays money for people to listen to music
<oimon> hmm thames water "upgraded" their pipes and broke my water meter
<oimon> they don't know how much water i've used
<diplo> Will probably estimate it on last few months usage then oimon ?
<oimon> diplo: yeah, they broke it in april
<diplo> :/
<oimon> could have had free water all summer
<diplo> You know with a company like that it won't be writ off :P
<oimon> :(
<oimon> they broke it too
<diplo> Who knows, you may be lucky
<oimon> no..they will estimate...except they never read my meter, it is always estimated
<ali1234> united utilities claimed i used Â£1000 of water in like 6 months
<oimon> so the estimates will be based on estimates
<ali1234> i challenged them to show me the meter
<ali1234> after about a year of failing to do so they wrote it off
<oimon> i was able to take a photo of my meter because it was completely unattached to any pipe
<oimon> and my neighbours one was sitting in my front garden
<oimon> does anyone know what an oystercard statement is?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it's a statement ... for your oystercard
<oimon> except they don't exist, although i'm being asked for one :-\
 * oimon munches on licorice to cheer himself up when dealing with customer service 
<diplo> Dont use Oyster, but can you retrieve it online
<oimon> maybe cos i have a season ticket, it doesn't actually tell me anything
<AlanBell> if you register your card you can get a statement
<oimon> it's definitely registered. no journeys appear on my history either (not a bad thing)
<shauno> that bugged me; I couldn't register my oyster card without a UK address
<oimon> oyster is a bit flawed really
<shauno> you'd think London of all places would realize that not everyone's a lcoal
<oimon> no photocards either now with oyster
<shauno> photocards?
<oimon> if you have a season ticket, there is nothing on the ticket to identify the owner
<shauno> ah
<shauno> that would seem ripe for abuse
<oimon> therefore if you put the oystercards in a drawer, you don't know if you are picking up a PAYG or season ticket
<shauno> grab a sharpie: fix it!
<oimon> any whether they care about family members sharing? maybe the non-transferable thing was to avoid resale in the old days
<funkyHat> They are fine with sharing your oyster card with anyone
<oimon> funkyHat: PAYG they are, but prob not season tickets
<oimon> although a weekly pass does not have to be registered
<funkyHat> I think they say you can't use it on the same day someone else has or something, but I see no way they would possibly bother to check up on that
<popey> i thought weekly didnt need a photo but monthly and above does
<oimon> red ken probably set up a spooks-style monitoring centre
<popey> has that changed?
<oimon> popey: i have a yearly, no photo on mine
<funkyHat> I cycle mostly so season tickets don't make sense for me
<oimon> student and discount cards require a photo
<shauno> payg makes sense for me, since I don't live on the same island :p
<oimon> i will deregister my card if ken got back in
<shauno> I only have one because it saves me trying to find change in the right currency the minute I land
<popey> oimon: the photo isnt on the card, there's a number which refers to the photo card
<popey> oh, you talking oyster or rail?
<oimon> both
<oimon> popey: oyster annual
<oimon> not the old school rail card
<oimon> i travel by rail but use my oyster to do it
<oimon> interesting article on slashdot re: german govt spyware
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> anyone know if there's an ubuntu preferred technology similar to gluster?
<bigcalm> Weird. The Linux Spotify client just told me I was using an unsupported platform
<andylockran> bigcalm: moi aussi, yesterday
<bigcalm> Say what?
<diplo> bigcalm, "me to"
<diplo> = moi aussi
<bigcalm> I see
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] Web frameworks for Scala - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/316
<bigcalm> Not sure which language that was
<diplo> Or me also probably better
<diplo> French
<diplo> Just been teaching my 5 year old some french
 * bigcalm shrinks away
<diplo> I'm limited so he isn't going to learn much :D
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1340/detail/  <- installfest
<ball> diplo: I think fork knows more Spanish than I do.
<diplo> :D
<diplo> I can understand spoken french, it's me speaking it that lacks
<diplo> Can even read it to some degree
<oimon> i managed to pick up french while working in a french company
<oimon> by osmosis
<popey> ball: Too much Dora?
<ball> popey: Si!
<popey> :D
<shauno> I can read french without feeling like a complete idiot.  anything spoken just goes straight past me tho :/
<BigRedS> I'm still amazed every time I install Ubuntu and it's done in about five minutes
<BigRedS> it's almost quicker than cping a vm image
<gord> if you are not speaking english to me, i will just be louder. it is all i know
<shauno> I used to hate that, until I started dealing with singapore on a regular basis.  They seem to speak faster if I didn't catch them the first time around.  Now I think louder would actually be preferable
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I just switch to WWII film quotes
<BigRedS> that _never_ goes down well
<BigRedS> surprisingly, it's worse in France than it is in Germany, though.
<andylockran> sorry, back to the pre-French question - any preference on ubntu clustered filesystems - or should I just invest in a SAN ?
 * BigRedS votes san
<BigRedS> I argue too much with ocfs/drbd to wish it upon anybody else
<diplo> Only experience I have had is a SAN I'm afriad, so can't compare
<BigRedS> I've never used a san, but the concept seems a lot more sound
<oimon> i use a iscsi SAN for my VM farm
<oimon> performance is excellent
<andylockran> ah, ok
<diplo> EMC talked us out of iSCSI when we bought ours, wish we had gone down that route as well
<oimon> depends on your budget
<oimon> i use equallogic
<andylockran> ok, I'm looking at around Â£500-Â£1000 I think
<oimon> rather than the 15-20k i had :P
<andylockran> :P
<diplo> Ours was 120k well for that and the secondary :)
<oimon> diplo: i think EMC ripped you off :)
<oimon> was it before the days that Dell owned EQL?
<diplo> I think so yeah
<Azelphur> woo, latest oneiric really breaks sound for me
<oimon> my old company managed to get 3 SANs for almost nothing in a deal similar to selling eggs in Catch 22
<BigRedS> haha
<diplo> Was a CX3-20 and a CX3-10
<diplo> Arefurbished part for one ( controller is going for Â£1200 ) let a lone the drives and rest of the equipment
<oimon> anyone have experience with samba locking and XLS spreadsheets ? a spreasheet gets getting set read-only and i'm not sure if it's user misoperation or samba options
<Azelphur> might actually be latest wines fault, looks like they've made some huge sound changes o.O
<oimon> just looked in the mirror for the first time today and discovered i've had really bad hair all day
<andylockran> dmesg
 * andylockran has bad hair also
<DJones> That reminds me, I need a haircut
<Azelphur> Anyone else on wine 1.3.30 confirm that wine now requires a lock on sound?
<MartijnVdS> it seems to\
<MartijnVdS> well not require
<MartijnVdS> it just takes it if it can
<MartijnVdS> and won't play sound if it can't
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, and if not no sound?
<Azelphur> yea
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 1.3.28-0ubuntu1 btw
<MartijnVdS> oneiric-current
<Azelphur> 1.3.28 doesn't have the issue, it's 1.3.30 that I have problems with
<MartijnVdS> Then my windows app is teh suck ;)
<Azelphur> maybe :D
<MartijnVdS> heh https://twitter.com/#!/qikipedia/status/123786909699944448
<shauno> heh .. I liked https://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK/status/123438349569630208
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<HazRPG> shauno:  xD @ Queen_UK's status
<shauno> I'm wondering if this rain's going to stop any time soon, or if I should be building an ark.  5 days constant.  ugh.
<jacobw> i think 5 days is when you should start building a ark
<dwatkins> whereabouts are you, shauno?
<shauno> the atlantic coast of ireland
<shauno> it's pretty much the Hebrides with less snow, weather-wise
<danfish> I went there once for a week and it only rained twice...once for 3 days and again for 4 days :/
<shauno> it's just wearing a bit thin because it's not even mixing it up a bit.  just the same *cough* day in, day out
<shauno> I don't even mind when it decides to throw the furniture around the garden.   just mix it up a bit
<danfish> sounds grim
<MartijnVdS> m
<MartijnVdS> I did _something_ that made arrows show up on all corners of the window
<MartijnVdS> (resizing arrows)
<MartijnVdS> and in the middle of all sides
<shauno> like the indicators you get when you mouseover?  or like drag handles
<MartijnVdS> no bigger
<MartijnVdS> Purple circles, 1cm across with arrows in them
<MartijnVdS> on all sides at once
<MartijnVdS> *aubergine
<shauno> interesting.  let me know when you figure out what you fat-fingered, might make it easier to resize Terminal :)
<MartijnVdS> three-finger move on touchpad maybe?
<MartijnVdS> that seems to be it
<AlanBell> wow, I have three finger window dragging
<SuprEngr> sounds pornographic
<Azelphur> do want
<AlanBell> SuprEngr: I can assure you I am not dragging porn :)
<SuprEngr> AlanBell, ;D
<AlanBell> or dressed in drag
<AlanBell> ooh, even more interesting, it is window dragging without moving focus
<AlanBell> or raising the dragged window
<AlanBell> and after drag is initiated you can take two fingers off
 * SuprEngr has tried this - worked out it would be better *with* a touch screen
<AlanBell> true
 * SuprEngr giggles
<czajkowski> bleugh soooo full
<SuprEngr> thinks... touch screens need a utility for degreasing - like degaussing for CRTs
<SuprEngr> boing!.... grease gone
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr++
<AlanBell> it could double as a remote electric shock device
<SuprEngr> podcast in 15  :)
<SuprEngr> - discussion tonight - electric shock
<SuprEngr> any foul ups - touch the screen - boooiinnnngg! - shock!
 * gord just wasted far too much of his life playing with the new cheese in oneiric, far too much fun http://ubuntuone.com/5LUF76R0Zaw3mQ1txk5Al5
<Azelphur> gord looking good XD
<gord> seriously, there are so many filters, i could waste hours playing in this thing
<gord> http://ubuntuone.com/1Ny01x8UDt7wPdKH2otESN :D
<smittix> evening all
<smittix> Don't suppose anyone is interested in a Power Mac G5, Quad Core Xeon 2.66?
<smittix> evening all
<smittix> Don't suppose anyone is interested in a Power Mac G5, Quad Core Xeon 2.66?
<mgdm> two machines?
<mgdm> two machines?
<mgdm> it's either a G5 or a Xeon :)
<mgdm> it's either a G5 or a Xeon :)
<smittix> mgdm: Just pulled the info from system information :/
<smittix> Say's Quad Core Xeon Processor?
<mgdm> Then it's not a PowerMac G5, it's an Intel Mac Pro
<shauno> 	he's right, and calling it a mac pro will do you wonders trying to sell it
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Sorry about that
<mgdm> G5s are PPC CPUs
<mgdm> They got rid of those a few years ago - if it's an Intel, it's probably still worth a fair chunk
<smittix> look similar too.
<smittix> I was going to sell it for 200 quid :/
<mgdm> duuuude
<mgdm> check eBay out and get the real price :)
<shauno> G5 are politely described as "legacy".  xeon is a whole 'nother story
<mgdm> (though I'll have it for 200 quid ;)
<shauno> hah.  I'd have it for 200.  the case sells for more than that.
<smittix> To be honest, I just want to get rid of it.
<smittix> Suck it on swapz.co.uk
<mgdm> might as well get its proper value
<shauno> aye.  moving it's one thing.  cheating yourself is quite another.  macs defy the norm when it comes to resale value
<mgdm> smittix: try "quad core mac pro" in a search on eBay. You're looking at the best part of a grand.
<mgdm> possibly more.
<smittix> woah
<smittix> Just looked on ebay..
<mgdm> Now you see? :)
<smittix> Indeed!
<smittix> so, anyone interested in a Intel Mac Pro Quad? ;)
<smittix> heh
<mgdm> Not now that you know what it's worth ;)
<shauno> you ruined it for everyone :(
<shauno> I'll still give you 200 quid for it   lol
<smittix> lol
<smittix> The hassle of ebay and such puts me off.
<bkerensa> 32-bit is better
<bkerensa> :D
<mgdm> smittix: perhaps, but...
<ali1234> how can you confuse a G5 for a mac pro
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you find a good g15 applet for testing with?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> also how do you set the button states?
 * Myrtti stabs the local DSLAM
<Myrtti> http://bit.ly/od4EhT
<ali1234> i dunno what "button states" means
<Azelphur> ali1234: how do I press a button in the dll library
<smittix> mgdm: Yeah, I will stick it on see what I get. Id be happy with a swap for a decent laptop.
<bkerensa> :(
<Azelphur> ah, found it in the header file
<bigcalm> Just tried Unity (11.04) on my 3 screen setup. Didn't work so well. Wonder if 11.10 will work any better
<silner> I've still not got used to Unity bigcalm and it has crashed once or twice, the first crashes I've ever had with Ubuntu actually
<bigcalm> Really regretting having just tried Unity now
<bigcalm> It's messed with my window manager settings
<bigcalm> Nothing has window controls on the 2nd and 3rd screens
<bigcalm> argh
<bigcalm> All fixed by using "Ubuntu classic without effects"
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15260534 sound advice
<bigcalm> Think I'll work from home during the games
<MartijnVdS> I think I might skip London next year, and visit some other part of the country :)
<bigcalm> Time for a 3rd play of the recent DJ Shadow album
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: have you looked at where else yet?
<_janen> #edinhacklab
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-release-party is open
<ali1234> is it scrolling 3 lines per second yet?
<shauno> AlanBell: if you're still curious, http://oneil.me.uk/Voiceover.mov .. that's capital vee, lower case all else.  that's me babbling thru an a11y install of osx-client
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-12
<shauno> it's rather weak in places, but I decided re-recording it forwarned would lose the effect
<harry_> Hey is there any channel for the InstallJammer's help???
<AlanBell> http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
<Girly-Girl> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<MooDoo> morning all
<GirlyGirl> MooDoo: Mooooooooo
 * MartijnVdS likes the Ubuntu monospace (terminal) font
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://xkcd.com/963/
<MooDoo> GirlyGirl: mooooooooo back :)
<GirlyGirl> MooDoo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_EsxukdNXM
<popey> heh MartijnVdS
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> GirlyGirl: ok ok you win :)
<dwatkins> mornin ubuntu-uk
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I completely agree with that graph :D
<AlanBell> morning all
<Joeb454> morning AlanBell
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<bigcalm> Hi cz
<bigcalm> ajkowski
 * czajkowski hands bigcalm a tab key 
<oimon> man i hate those self-serve tills in sainsbury's." unexpected item in bagging area ,remove item" : remove item, "please replace item". repeat ad nauseum. cannot cancel or proceed
 * MooDoo need a caffine drip and a punch bag :)
<Joeb454> oimon: I had a self-serve till where the card machine didn't recognise my card 3 times in a row
<Joeb454> that was fun
<Joeb454> couldn't find a way to cancel and pay by cash either
<oimon> you know they run windows, right? :)
<gord> so just press random buttons until it bsod's?
<Joeb454> oimon: I vaguely remember seeing one on a windows screen once. Shame there's no proper keyboard
<oimon> at my local shop there is always 1/6 terminals showing a windows screen and unknown exception error or similar
<Joeb454> that's pretty impressive
<oimon> bad software on top of bad software :D
<JamesTait> Good morning, all!
<BigRedS> g'morning!
 * oimon wonders if JamesTait's regular morning greetings are produced by a script ;)
<BigRedS> It's how I'd do it :)
<oimon> is there any way to disable the "top story" thing on facebook?
<DJones> oimon: I just clicked on the option to "Sort by recency" that seems to have put it back mostly like normal
<oimon> where? where? !!
<DJones> Just above the 1st story
<DJones> Underneath the whats on your mind box on the right if of the centre section
<oimon> doesn't show on mine?
<DJones> Underneath the whats on your mind box, I get "x recent stories, x matked as top", then just to the right, "Top stories first:Sort by recency"
 * oimon tries on firefox instead
<DJones> This is on Chrome
<DJones> oimon: http://imagebin.org/178617
<oimon> wow, definitely don't get that
 * DJones feels "special"
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/2GFiTN7NKOThjSlhH1wpCQ
<oimon> chromium and firefox are the same
<DJones> I have seen people suggesting betterfacebook is a good add on to use, but I'm wary of letting facebook apps/addons have access to login details
<DJones> http://betterfacebook.net/#wwbfd
<ali1234> haha so facebook completely copied google+
<DJones> ali1234: You mean the betterfacebook? Its not anything to do with facebook, 3rd party addon
<ali1234> no i mean facebook.com
<DJones> I have seen people suggesting betterfacebook is a good add on to use, but I'm wary of letting facebook apps/addons have access to login details
<DJones> ali1234: ok, I misunderstood
<ali1234> i have never heard of betterfacebook but it sounds a bit like polishing a turd
<DJones> oimon: http://betterfacebook.net/#wwbfd (Hadn't noticed you'd disconnected)
 * oimon wonders if better facebook is always the previous version :)
<DJones> oimon: Looking at the screenshots, it does look quite useful for reducing the amount of junk on there
<oimon> does anyone else get djones option my my (lack of) option
<czajkowski> oimon: nope
<oimon> czajkowski: your view looks like mine or djones?
<czajkowski> mine looks perfect
<oimon> :-\ is that 1 or 2?
 * oimon thinks djones has written his own app in his sleep.
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> Maybe my facebook hasn't been upgraded yet
<oimon> "upgraded"
<MooDoo> DJones: upgrade it yourself :)
<DJones> oimon: ok spamgraded
<oimon> just found an ubuntu 8.10 CD in my cd, complete with ubuntu stickers :D
<bigcalm> CD in your CD?
<oimon> s/cd/drawer/
<bigcalm> Ah
<DJones> drawer or drive?
<oimon> my brain is broken today
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://puffbox.com/2011/03/22/testing-hmrcs-open-source-claims/
<popey> ey'up all
<czajkowski> you havea drawer full of cds
<bigcalm> Hello mr cake man
<popey> i need to find somewhere to crash tomorrow night
<bigcalm> Have you upset the wifey?
<popey> or check times of last trains home
<popey> nope
<popey> she's out tonight, I'm out tomorrow
 * DJones goes one better, my wife is out tonight and won't be back until Monday evening
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Farnborough mainline trains run quite late don't they popey?
<bigcalm> Hayley is at work all day, not sure how I will cope
<popey> not sure TheOpenSourcerer
<MooDoo> my wife is p***d off she can't go out, rosie won't let her :) lol
<popey> who is rosie?
<popey> and how old is she
<bigcalm> What's the current prescription charge per item?
<popey> 7 pound sommat?
<bigcalm> Is it 7.40?
 * bigcalm pokes TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch
<MooDoo> popey: rosie is my daughter who it 4 weeks, yeah 7 pound sommat
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Any particular reason for that abusive prod?
<bigcalm> Sorry, guess I got the wrong nick :)
<popey> ahhh
<popey> quite young then
<bigcalm> Who is the medical type person in here?
<MooDoo> popey: very, she doesn't like to sleep unless held :S
 * bigcalm gives TheOpenSourcerer a plaster and a lollypop
<oimon> babies are overrated.. toddlers are great though
<Myrtti> popey: are you encouraging people to flood the u-r-p? :-D :-D
<bigcalm> I was right with 7.40
<popey> Myrtti: moi!?
<Myrtti> yes, you!!!
<DJones> Has anybody had any issues with 11.10 not shutting down properly, mine just sticks at a point with the 5 dots on it
<bigcalm> DJones: not on 11.10 yet, but do you have any network shares?
<DJones> bigcalm: NFS shares, yes
<gord> the network share problem was fixed a few releases back (or at least, significantly reduced)
<DJones> Hadn't had any issues with 11.04 with shares
<bigcalm> DJones: next time you go to shut down, try unmounting them before you shutdown
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> Just an idea :)
<gord> DJones, iv had it take a long time, but never just hang, let it be for a bit more?
<AlanBell> I would like to see a non-negotiable suspend or shutdown based on laptop lid
<gord> hrm?
<bigcalm> Works on my laptop in 11.04
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seems like I need to practice drinking more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317
<MartijnVdS> Suspend on lid-close works on my laptop
<DJones> Will have to look at bug reports, the longest I've left it is 10 minutes before pressing the power button, it starts up with no errors afterwards
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, but applications can block it, transmission for one
<MartijnVdS> But only after suspending manually once
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Guess I'm not using such apps :)
<gord> suspend shouldn't be blockable
<AlanBell> pops up a dialog saying "do you really want to suspend, I am doing something really important" or something like that
<DJones> May also try a command line shutdown to see if that has the same problem
<gord> AlanBell, file a bug in transmission telling them that its an extremely dumb thing to do :)
<gord> i understand for shutdown, but on suspend its just stupid
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> actually it might not be doing that, there is a checkbox for "inhibit hibernate"
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<gord> so the countdown was a countdown to the start of a countdown thats counting down to the actual release?
<AlanBell> estimated, yes
<AlanBell> decrypting the transmission from chi saggitari
<bigcalm> This makes me think they copied the idea from the Portal 2 release
<sebsebseb> hi
<Joeb454> hi sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> Joeb454: hi
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<bigcalm> (I wish it was)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm only on the ubuntu-uk mailing list and haven't seen any responses. Have you had any more feedback elsewhere?
<smittix> Moaning all
<bigcalm> Morning
<smittix> Anyone know what they are doing about the mailing list admin position?
<Laney> IS IT OUT YET?
<DJones> Anybody with Virgin cable tv, http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42491/sky-anytime-on-virgin-media
<bigcalm> Sweet
<bigcalm> Not that we bother to watch any of the Sky channels
<AlanBell> smittix: the ubuntu-users one?
<jaymeskeller> Why would you want to do that? It's like tying your breakfast onto a plauge rat.
<smittix> AlanBell: Yeah
<AlanBell> popey might know about that, are you stepping forward?
<oimon> isn't that the one that turned popey into a bitter and twisted old man? ;)
<smittix> Yeah I emailed but have not recieved anything back yet? That was quite a few weeks ago now.
<oimon> perhaps it got moderated :)
<AlanBell> oimon: no, popey has always been bitter and twisted
<AlanBell> like a slice of lime in a G&T
<oimon> he's more machine now than man
<smittix> heh
 * AlanBell slaps youtube with a support ogv properly stick
<davmor2> AlanBell: it might support webm more realistically
<gord> i use webm when sending to youtube these days
<AlanBell> I have an ogv made with gtk-recordmydesktop
<AlanBell> ffmpeg and mencoder are arguing with me
<AlanBell> openshot saves the day I think
<popey> i have uploaded to youtube by renaming .ogv to .avi before now
<gord> i have a command somewhere in my bash history i refer back to that gets me things from <whatever> in to webm :)
<gord> chances are it uses non free stuff for audio though
<DJones> Ok, Evidence that intelligence levels of the human race are dropping, just noticed this question from a friend on twitter "What date is halloween" (and it was asked in all seriousness)
<MooDoo> oh dear lord
<MooDoo> DJones: i hope you're still taking the mickey
<DJones> MooDoo: Nah, can't be bothered with that
<BigRedS> man. Ctrl-A, Backspace is a _really_ bad thing to have in muscle-memory :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: nope me neither only gord, alex has it in his diary for next month, Ron has been made aware again and will try and make the afternoon again and mrevell will hopefully be there so there should be more than us this time :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka how's things dude
<mrevell> davmor2, I'm hoping to be there, yeah
<MooDoo> davmor2: i need lots of beer at the moment, day it's not going well
<davmor2> mrevell: 17th put it in your calendar ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh dear what did you break?
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol nothing, it's just well busy
<davmor2> MooDoo: we're not, not with a release tomorrow on no we're not busy at all oh wait.........
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh it's only a release, stop whining, you'd think hundreds of thousands of people are looking forward to it or something
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh wait.....
<davmor2> MooDoo: :D
<davmor2> gord: have you tried out ryzom yet?
<gord> davmor2, rywah?
<davmor2> gord: look at USC ryzom mmorpg for Ubuntu
<davmor2> gord: it's not terrible either :)
<gord> davmor2, not in my sc
<davmor2> gord: oh you're on oneiric right
<gord> yup
<davmor2> gord: it will be latter today I think
<davmor2> we are porting the for purchase games across steadily
<gord> aha
<gord> still think most of them are priced too high in the sc
<bigcalm> davmor2: goodo :)
<davmor2> gord this is free
<gord> so why is it "for purchase" :P
<davmor2> gord: non free license, and at some point I'm assuming they will have some sort of subscription system to fund the hardware and bandwidth
<popey> Lunchtime seems like a good time to release a podcast episode to me.
<popey> Agreed?
<bigcalm> Yep
<davmor2> popey: +1
<bigcalm> Gimmie gimmie :)
<gord> i disagree, for unspecified reasons that may be made up
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/10/11/s04e17-chains-of-misery/
<popey> done
<ali1234> davmor2: do they have a website?
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap
<bigcalm> gpodder to the rescue!
<bigcalm> :(
<gord> why isn't quake 3 arena in the software centre :(
<bigcalm> gpodder says no new episodes
<davmor2> http://www.ryzom.com/en/
 * bigcalm goes to lunch. Maybe it'll work later
<oimon> davmor2: how is it funded?
<davmor2> gord: they would have to novitiate it
<davmor2> oimon: magic
<gord> its free to play
<gord> so the same way all other free to play games. hats.
<oimon> what's this page? http://www.ryzom.com/en/mmorpg-rpg-mmo-subscription-options.html
<ali1234> the video says "21 day free trial"
<popey> bigcalm: blame feedburner
 * bigcalm blames with fire
<davmor2> oimon: as I say I think they will be implementing a subscription system
 * oimon scrolls up and nods
<gord> davmor2, there is no one outreaching to people who have made games?
<davmor2> gord: there is
<gord> then tell them to talk to ID about quake 3, because i want it. its the most important thing
<ali1234> you need to get that legend of grimdark ported. if i see another mmorpg or fps i might actually lose it
<davmor2> gord: you're wrong rage is the most import thing linux client scheduled for next year ;)
<gord> how is it supposed to be the year of the linux desktop if we don't even have quake 3 :(
<BigRedS> I'm sure I've got quake3 working under linux before
<BigRedS> openarena's way easier and basically the same, though
<BigRedS> it's like quake 3 but with the lights on
<gord> *no* its not
<gord> its stupid and i hate it
<gord> its *slightly* different in every way, which means its unplayable
<DJones> Oh dear, its that time, sony accounts accessed http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/10/11/an-important-message-from-sonys-chief-information-security-officer/
<davmor2> BigRedS: I'm pretty sure I got it playing although it may of been Doom3 it's been a long time
<BigRedS> hm, maybe it's just been too long since I played Q3 proper, then
<BigRedS> either way, it is pretty doable. Basically you need a Q3 disc for the images and the for-linux version of the engine off id's ftp server
<davmor2> Rage looks nice though
<gord> yeah i don't have my q3 disks anymore
<BigRedS> ah, Im sure I've one somewhere which I could stick somewhere accessible to you?
<gord> i want to buy it again :) on the software centre, you can play it for free at quakelive.com anyway
<davmor2> and I hate fps
<BigRedS> yeah, I've bought it several times now. In fact, I think I've got it on steam
<gord> but the plugin for quakelive breaks every time firefox updates, which given their new version schedule of a new major version every day, means it breaks a lot.
<BigRedS> wonder if that's at all usable as far as extracting he media
<gord> should be, you only need one file or so
<BigRedS> yeah, just wondered if steam did silly things to it
<BigRedS> I have a distrust of anything that makes things that easy. Something must be up there somewhere
<gord> yeah there is a wrapper around the exe file that forces authentication with steam, but everything else should be fine
<ali1234> sony hacked again? lulz
<gord> i think its just people who, when told by sony to choose a new password, put in their old one again =\
<BigRedS> oh, gord, have you faffed around getting old id games working on new ubuntus and debians at all?
<davmor2> I may have to install neverwinter nights again at some point
<BigRedS> the sdl-sound hack appears to have stopped working in oneiric & experimental and I don't know enough about sound in linux to know why :(
<ali1234> gord: so ioquake3 with q3a datafiles is not acceptable to you?
<gord> BigRedS, they all have open source replacements, up until doom 3, doom 3 source should be out already though i think
<gord> ali1234, sure, ioquake3 is great
<gord> why wouldn't it be acceptable?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> it's in the repositories so what is the problem?
<gord> i don't have the datafiles?
<davmor2> man upgrades are slow
<ali1234> how do you know it's a good game then?
<gord> because i used to 12 years ago?
<ali1234> is it really that old :|
<BigRedS> gord: yeah, they're open, it's just that I'm playing old games that are unawre of the, uh, developments of linux sound recently
<BigRedS> I'm playing Enemy Territory mostly
<gord> i think 1999
<gord> BigRedS, ah, that one never got open source code, sorry :) - maybe remove pulseaudio?
<davmor2> BigRedS: it might be that you need the 32 bit lib if you're on 64bit
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I've got that from whenever it used to work (Maverick?) so I think that's all there. Every couple of releases something changes to keep me on my toes
<BigRedS> gord: I did wonder that. I'm sure it used to work on pulse, but it's probably simplest to just do without it and it'll keep just working
<BigRedS> or install a Lenny VM and play in that...
<davmor2> BigRedS: don't forget the new naming version in oneiric for the apps is now :i386 other wise it will install the 64bit version that might not be any cop to you
<BigRedS> Ahh, I'd not noticed that (Is *that* what these release notes are for? :)
<BigRedS> I'll have a poke next time I'm at home
<BigRedS> ta
<jaymeskeller> Wait. They're changing the naming version in oneriric?
<Laney> whawt?
<Laney> -w
<gord> hawt?
 * Laney sews sides back together
<davmor2> jaymeskeller: only on packages, it's using multiarch now so you can install any i386 only app
<MartijnVdS> not any
<MartijnVdS> but lots of them yes
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: well the bulk of them then :)
<gord> reason #1351 why this is not the year of the linux desktop, we don't have this application ported to ubuntu; http://bitboost.com/pawsense/
<BigRedS> oh!
 * BigRedS wants
<Laney> one of my passwords is cat generated
<BigRedS> haha
<Pendulum> Laney: how'd you memorize it?
<Laney> i just take the cat with me everywhere
<Laney> he knows it
<Pendulum> heh
<Laney> he is also immune to social engineering
<Laney> but not tuna engineering :(
<davmor2> gord: when you get to reason 1337 is it then cause linux is too leet?
<davmor2> got not get
<gord> reason #1337 is that linux users think saying 1337 instead of using letters is cool :(
<davmor2> gord: haha
<davmor2> gord: you mean it isn't cool?
<gord> no sir
<BigRedS> he lies!
<davmor2> BigRedS: gord just isn't 1337 :D
<BigRedS> haha, we r t3h 1337 h4xx0rz
<BigRedS> I'll stop now
 * gord puts more easter eggs into unity to make all text be leetzorized for davmor2 
<davmor2> gord: Yay it's you that has to read it though with all the bugs I'll report so I don't care :P
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E17  Chains of Misery - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/10/11/s04e17-chains-of-misery/
<bigcalm> Encoding fail
<Myrtti> next naming scheme should be Take That
<Myrtti> or Oasis or Blur, just for lulz
<dwatkins> !samba
<lubotu3> Samba is the way to cooperate with Windows environments. Links with more info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently and https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/windows-networking.html - Samba can be administered via the web with SWAT.
<dwatkins> I need to reinstall a server, so this documentation should be useful.
<sagaci> is there an en_GB team for the Launchpad-hosted packages, or only the en_GB team for the main Ubuntu package set?
<bigcalm> Bloody hell
<bigcalm> I got mentioned in the podcast
<bigcalm> Meep
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah they like mentioning stalkers nowadays
<Laney> "be aware, strange man spotted wearing a suit made entirely of bacon and bees"
<Laney> beer fans, help me choose which ones to try http://www.beerfestival.nottinghamcamra.org/Assets_pdf/Beer_2011_List.pdf
<MooDoo> Laney: you going?
<MooDoo> er obviously
<MooDoo> Laney: i should of asked, what day you going lol
<Laney> thursday + saturday
<MooDoo> cool
<Laney> Dark porter style beer with a ginger infusion
<Laney> interesting...
<hamitron> WineHQ App DB hacked? :/
<MartijnVdS> "a ginger infusion" sounds dirty
<Laney> sounds tasty
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: hacked? how?
<hamitron> just got an email, saying the user database has been stolen
<Monsterwizard> :O
<oimon> via phpmyadmin
<oimon> easily done
 * hamitron spits
<oimon> i got an email about it
<oimon> fortunately have not used that passwd anywhere else
<hamitron> all this stuff is just annoying
<oimon> even more fortunate that firefox still remembered the password
<hamitron> well, I had done.... only I've changed all important passwords since sony and codemasters
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> go for low hanging fruit and hope that users use simple passwords across sites
<hamitron> database leaks appears to be the norm :/
<oimon> wonder if i can transfer my firefox saved passwds into chromium?
<ali1234> yeah so the recent sony breach... done with winehq passwords?
<gord> first time i have listened to the u-uk podcast in a while, things i have learnt; popey things a warthog is a type of aardvark
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Oattes] How to improve on ARGs - http://www.cjo20.net/blog/?p=33
<oimon> the other thing is that when the wing commander comes on it's the end of the show
<popey> :D gord
<MartijnVdS> oimon: the wing commander rocks :)
<gord> hamitron, i just noticed onboard works with unity dash now :)
<gord> erm
<gord> sorry, not hamitron, i meant "ha" but i tried to tab complete it i guess
<hamitron> onboard?
<hamitron> haha
<Pendulum> gord: yes :)
<_janen>   /join #edinhacklab
<Seeker`> wow, I['m still on the planet
<hamitron> Seeker`, which one?
<Seeker`> ubuntu-uk
<Laney> earth
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Health and Exercise - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/12/health-and-exercise/
<bigcalm> So, when does uupc get renamed to the Popey Show?
<popey> :D
<gord> "Popey and friends"
<popey> s/P/p/
<popey> WAKEY WAKEY!
<oimon> ssshhhhh
<DJones> zzzzzz's
<bigcalm> Bed please
<DJones> Hang on, isn't this the wrong channel for that
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> yeh, take it into private ;)
<DJones> I was thinking more of the minecraft channel :)
<ascenseur> hey :)
<hamitron> yeh, but no harm in misleading those not aware ;)
<kirrus> There's a minecraft channel?
<kirrus> hello ascenseur
 * DJones erases my last comment
<ascenseur> howdy kirrus :)
<gord> huh, intel have shut down their Digital Home Group - looks like arm is gonna power tv's and media devices for the foreseeable future
<gord> wonder what that means for atoms
<DJones> I wonder if you made a "supercomputer" using atom processors, could you call it a molecule computer (I know, bad joke)
<hamitron> :D
 * hamitron kinda liked it
<hamitron> ;/
<DJones> gord: Probably the share price will go up
<gord> you could network up a bunch of atom computers, each of them simulating a virtual atom
<hamitron> that work done at intel with old i586 cpu recently sounded interesting
<hamitron> used a lot less power, hope that is the direction they are moving towards
<ujjain> What is the children game called when children have to run away from eachother and the 'catcher' has to touch them, them the touched person becomes 'catcher'
<ujjain> sorry for bad explanation
<hamitron> think it has a few different names
<gord> tic-a-nic?
<gord> americans like to call it tag i think
<popey> "it"
<popey> (is what we call it)
<DJones> ujjain: We called it "Tic"
<ali1234> we called it dobby
<popey> ujjain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_(game)
<popey> explains it best
<davmor2> that's Tig surely
<bigcalm> It goes by many names
<bigcalm> I was always it :(
<popey> heh
<Pendulum> bigcalm: that's because you were loved :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you still are muppet boy ;)
<hamitron> we mostly played British Bulldogs iirc
<gord> i was really really fast and there was a girl who was really really fast so we both used to only chase each other, ahh to be 8 again
<popey> we used to play "1, 2, 3 and out" where you ran hid and had to get back to the base before you were caught
<bigcalm> popey: I knew that as 40/40 home
<bigcalm> Why, dunno
<bigcalm> davmor2: wakka wakka
<bigcalm> Pendulum: sweet :)
<davmor2> bulldogs and pile-on when they got banned tagdogs bugdogs without the aggression
<davmor2> then we realise that if you went to the field and held a rugby ball you could still play pile-on and bulldogs :)
<bigcalm> Hahaha
<hamitron> banned? :|
<ujjain> DJones, popey, thanks! :)
<Diogo> #webdetails
<marcushaslam> hi
<gord> cool, if you buy "dungeons of dreadmore" on steam, they put the linux binaries in the download :)
<Girly-Girl> bye
<bigcalm> Hi?
<popey> YES!
<MartijnVdS> Howdy!
<bigcalm> Fish fingers!
<davmor2> Rupert the Bear
<christel> and custard?
<Azelphur> fish fingers and custard \o/
<Azelphur> I should try that sometime, I wonder how it actually tastes
<mgdm> boggin', I'd suspect
<Azelphur> apparently it tastes good, http://www.alananna.co.uk/blog/2011/fish-fingers-and-custard/
<christel> Azelphur: yeah, you and i both!
<christel> i am all for trying it
<Azelphur> I've tried more daring things
<Azelphur> The other day I cooked a recipe someone pulled off 4chan \o/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Dead baby stew?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: 2 minute brownies :D
<MartijnVdS> ah the microwave one
<Azelphur> yep, it was good \o/
<davmor2> http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=crickets  :D nice
<brobostigon> bbc4 10pm, brazil, :)
<brobostigon> get-iplayer :)
<MartijnVdS> I don't think that'll work on movies
<Patch230> Evening !
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :'(
<Patch230> Anyone from the north east ?
<davmor2> AlanBell: well looking at the workload I have left I don't think I'll be coming down tomorrow :(  still midst application migration testing for the paid for apps :(
<davmor2> oneiric new multiarch is being a pain for us :(
<AlanBell> aww
<andres-kain> does anyone have gnumeric? if so could you try something simple like adding two columns?
<andres-kain> does it work or does it give you #Value!
<jacobw> andres-kain: gnumeric is a bit outdated
<andres-kain> Ah! found it! it was that I was using decimals like 0.1 and not 0,1
<andres-kain> jacobw how is it updated?
<andres-kain> outdated?*
<andres-kain> last update was in july according to wikipedia... it is what is recomended for lighter distros (or so it seemed)
 * jacobw is wrong 
<BigRedS> andres-kain: does that mean you don't need it testing?
<andres-kain> yes sorry
 * BigRedS is as fond of gnumeric as he'll allow himself to become fond of any spreadsheet app
<BigRedS> ah, it's fine!
<BigRedS> I don't mind not doing something :)
<andres-kain> gnumeric is awesome.
<BigRedS> I wouldn't go that far, but it's preferable to all the alternatives
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] iPhone4S or Galaxy S2? - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/12/iphone4-or-galaxy-s2/
<AlanBell> Galaxy S2
<andres-kain> samsung tizen
<andres-kain> with flexible screen display thanks to grafene.
<BigRedS> Despite the goodness of the S2, I'm having trouble liking Samsung again after what they did to the S
<Monsterwizard> I need help from you guys
<Monsterwizard> Ok when I look at a problem..yano a software or logic one
<Monsterwizard> I pannic
<Monsterwizard> anixiety
<Monsterwizard> kicks in
<andres-kain> what is the problem?
<Monsterwizard> any problem
<Monsterwizard> :P
<andres-kain> in what do you need help now..?
<zleap> hi
<popey> hello
<zleap> looks like 10.10 is released friday or very late thursday
<popey> i think you mean 11.10
 * zleap is going by the counter (yheah 11.10)
<popey> i wouldn't go by the counter
<popey> that has pretty much no bearing
<zleap> okj
<AlanBell> zleap: the release manager is coming to the party in London
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> that is a much more sensible upper bound on the release time
<zleap> i have a countdown banner on my website showing 1 day
<zleap> i would have organised a release party but no one on the linux user group ever seems interested
<zleap> plus lack of suitable venues
<YaManicKill> wow that was a lot of typing
<YaManicKill> my ubuntu reviews always end up being so big...
<popey> yay
<popey> YaManicKill: url?
<popey> is it on G+?
<YaManicKill> its not posted yet...i'm waiting till the release
<popey> ah ok
<BigRedS> YaManicKill: but by then it'll be out of date! :)
<YaManicKill> ;-)
<YaManicKill> it seems premature releasing it when people can't get the stable version
<popey> hahah you said stable
<YaManicKill> i know, i know, its not much different...but that tag makes a huge difference to people
 * BigRedS spots another oneiric user
<popey> i had a bit of a rant
<YaManicKill> i saw :-P
<YaManicKill> i dont think its "broke" its just a rubbish rubbish design tbh...
<BigRedS> wonder if ubuntu can beat apple tomorrow: http://www.lonap.net/bandwidth.shtml
<AlanBell> no, sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager was *not* what I wanted to do in an SSH session to a customer server
<YaManicKill> haha
<BigRedS> hah. oops
<BigRedS> I apt-get installed mongodb once and got half of X...
<AlanBell> saved by a broken proxy :)
<zleap> hmm how do I fix a package in an inconsistant state
<zleap> does dpkg -p purge a package
<zleap> so i can remove it
<zleap> still got problems with apt being in an inconsistant state with this printer driver
<ali1234> why are you all hating on oneiric?
<ali1234> it isn't worse than natty
<ali1234> it certainly crashes a lot less
<BigRedS> it's more surprising for me
<BigRedS> alt-tab in particular seems to go out of its way to not do what I meant
<BigRedS> and I can't quite work out whether that's what it's supposed to do
<ali1234> i prefer the new alt-tab to the old alt-tab, which was useless
<ali1234> now it is only mostly useless
<BigRedS> it makes the same assumptions as gnome3 - that I don't necessarily not want another window of the current app - but gnome3 is easier to correct
<ali1234> there's too many double negatives in that, i can't parse it
<YaManicKill> ali1234: why is it that pointing out a problem is immediately "hating on" something?
<BigRedS> haha
<zleap> ok if I wanted to search /var/lib/dpkg/status for a specific package how do i do that
<zleap> grep /var/lib/dpkg/status <what i want to search for >
<ali1234> YaManicKill: i just wonder why so many people seem to have /only just/ noticed that unity sucks
<YaManicKill> it doesnt
<BigRedS> when I alt-tab in an app with two windows open (say firefox and firefox downloads) the hardest window to get at is the other window of that app
<BigRedS> which is completely contrary to how I work
<YaManicKill> thats a stupid crap generlisation
<ali1234> well, we'll see
<BigRedS> I don't think it sucks necessarily. I think it's just made for people with different tastes to me
<BigRedS> though I don't find it *hard* to use, I did prefer Gnome2
 * TheOpenSourcerer will be sticking to 10.10 on his work machines for *another* round by the sound of things...
<BigRedS> Hah. I'm still postponing my shift from Debian
<BigRedS> I've been doing that for about five years now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oneric on my netbook is ludicrously slow to boot... And sometimes I just get the nautilus menu in the top bar and nothing else. Anywhere. CTL+ALT+F1 the login and reboot. Yawn.
<popey> takes ages to boot on my 8 core i7 on SSD
<BigRedS> surely you could just restart gdm?
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: that means unity failed to start due to graphics driver bugs
<BigRedS> not a lot more elegant, granted
<popey> I dont quite get why its so slow to get to the logon screen
<ali1234> or rather compiz
<popey> my 1.6GHz atom is faster
<TheOpenSourcerer> oh crumbs popey - an i7 should be quite quick.
<popey> indeed
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\quite\very
<popey> 3.4GHz quick
 * popey looks for a bootchart
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<mgdm> about half an hour of going "Cor, that's quite a lot of cores you've got"?
<popey> hmm, i installed bootchart and now its gone
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: it doesn't seem to have gdm anymore. Something else I found I could restart but it didn't help much.  I had to login as a guest and copy some .gnome2/.gconf dirs from the /tmp/guest to my home dir so it would start properly ;-)
<popey> lightdm
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: it's got *something* gdm3? lightdm?
<TheOpenSourcerer> that's it.
<BigRedS> ah, lightdm
<TheOpenSourcerer> that is a lie.
<ali1234> where is the lightdm theme stored?
 * popey shrugs
<TheOpenSourcerer> *light*dm my bottom.
<BigRedS> Well, it's nice in some perverse way to know that someone else is having more trouble than me...
<ali1234> yeah, it has a whole html engine built in, doesn't it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> should be slowdm
<TheOpenSourcerer> you are kidding ali1234?
<ali1234> no, that's the point of it
<BigRedS> oh, is that where this write-a-wm-in-javascript thing comes from?
<ali1234> the theme is done in html
<TheOpenSourcerer> wft?
<AlanBell> lighter than GDM
<ali1234> anyway i want to get rid of all traces of that ugly purple wallpaper, even though i only see it after a kernel upgrade
<popey> my pc boots to a black screen
<popey> with a flashing cursor
<popey> _and_ a mouse cursor
<BigRedS> oooh
<ali1234> nice
<YaManicKill> haha
<ali1234> sounds like KMS fail
 * popey videos this madness
<popey> its intel
<ali1234> yeah, there you go then
<popey> if i press enter lightdm starts
<ali1234> the only way to escape the insanity is to use a driver that doesn't support KMS
<zleap> ohh i think i may have fixed this issue
<TheOpenSourcerer> On  a lighter note: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/CTKqTsrFyVF
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: looks painful
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had all three on my Beans last night ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/wopr-oneiric-20111012-1.png
<popey> hows that for lolworthy
<TheOpenSourcerer> Today I got some new seeds for next year: Trinidad Scorpion "Butch T" (Current world record holder for hottest chillie at ~1.4m scovilles) and the Naga Viper(R) (The 2nd hottest at ~1.3m scovilles)
<BigRedS> you freak :)
<mgdm> popey: wow
<zleap> what do i need to install to connect to another computer on the same network i am on running Windows XP ?
<gordonjcp> popey: comedy cold
<ali1234> popey: that looks like the weird IRQ bug again
<BigRedS> zleap: define 'connect to'
<gordonjcp> or even gold
<ali1234> 20 seconds of nothing, then you hit enter and it comes to life
<BigRedS> but probably smbclient
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: interesting
<zleap> ok
<zleap> if I want to actually control the other computer
<YaManicKill> 1:15 for a core i7???
<BigRedS> for various windows services (filesharing, wins, netbios)
<BigRedS> zleap: aha, there's a terminal services client
<YaManicKill> mine booted in about 30...
<BigRedS> I can't remember what it's called
<zleap> ok
<BigRedS> but you don't need smb for it
<zleap> so what do i need to run on the windows box ?
<BigRedS> 'terminal services' is what windows calls remote desktop
<BigRedS> you need to enable terminal services. I can't remember where.
<TheOpenSourcerer> zleap - you can browse to an existing Windows share without having to install anything IIRC.
<TheOpenSourcerer> On 10.10 Places->Network and wait a mo.
<zleap> 11.04
<TheOpenSourcerer> Christ knows on anything later than that though
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<zleap> but yeah,  i havce tried to install what is needed but don't seem to be able to see the other computer
<TheOpenSourcerer> open a terminal and (if it isn't installed install it) run smbtree
<popey> you can get to that menu in 11.04
<popey> just go to the top of the screen
<popey> where the menu is
<TheOpenSourcerer> With sudo if you need to  - it will browse the LAN for any Windows shares
<zleap> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> like that:
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/707019/
<zleap> that sees my windows box
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not much else on now - everyone else in bed
<zleap> hmm
<ali1234> /etc/lightdm/unity-greeter.conf to change the wallpaper on the login screen (or replace it with a solid colour like i just did)
 * TheOpenSourcerer decides to (just for a laugh) update his netbook to Oneric released -1day
<zleap> i think i need to change the domain  name or what ever on the windows box to WORKGROUP so its the same as for the computer I am on now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Does anyone else get a message on startup about a sparse file not allowed?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> did you install on ntfs or something?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I *think* I might have selected btrfs just for fun :-[
<BigRedS> haha
<ali1234> oops
<BigRedS> 'just for fun' about a filesystem choice?
<YaManicKill> popey: your weird alt-tab stuff doesn't happen in unity2d
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's my netbook. Not a "production" machine. Well - it has Unity on it so definitely not production.
<popey> YaManicKill: colour me unsurprised
<popey> friend of mine laments that Ubuntu dont put big warnings in the installer about btrfs
<popey> its proper grolsch
<ali1234> popey: i've been complaining about the inability to switch to a single window without revealing all of them for 6 months
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Robin Hood beer festival 2011 - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/10/beer-festival/
<ali1234> how did you not notice this before?
<popey> pass
<ali1234> i just don't get it :|
<popey> I used OSX for a fair chunk of this cycle
<popey> but wiped that out completely recently
<Laney> man that kernel bug looks annoying
<Laney> not even the bug itself, but the automated ping pong
<popey> which bug?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh no updates for the last day or two... Don't say this is final. Perrrrlease
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: enable -proposed :D
<popey> there's loads of updates
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah OK.
<popey> get them now, while you can :D
<alexcockell> I was thinking - when I do a major upgrade next year, the learnign curve could be a bit big.. as other LTS-LTS users like me will find...
<popey> nah, we'll have the documentatino done by then :D
<alexcockell> HArdy to Lucid was pretty seamless...
<popey> there will be a new Ubuntu manual out by then
<Laney> popey: the one you twote
<popey> ..for maverick
<Laney> but kernel bugs in general
<popey> Laney: the ralink one?
<ali1234> popey: is that the italian localization?
<alexcockell> but considering my muscle memory was XP Classic - to GNOME2...
<Laney> i don't even remember what it was
<popey> Laney: i believe it's just that the driver is shit
<Laney> i just saw the automated responses and got annoyed
<popey> it seems to work if you power down completely
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Only 43 packages
<TheOpenSourcerer> About 11MB
 * Laney upgrades to precise
<Laney> oneiric? pfft, who uses that?
<zleap> i can now see my ubuntu box from windows
 * popey smells Laney's breath
<alexcockell> I also found out the hard way ( as there was a second partition on my netbook) that it's always best on lappies to have nothign connected and battery in - and on mains - to do the full dist-upgrade..
 * popey puts a pint of water next to Laney's bedside for rehydration
<alexcockell> You lot been following the whole RIM debacle and giggling?
<ali1234> popey: point about full shutdown. i *always* do that. half the time this machine wont even post if i warm reboot. bioses these days...
<alexcockell> Unless of course you have Blackberries...
<popey> i only know about the RIM stuff because a) my nieces are moaning about it and b) people keep posting steve jobs jokes about it
<alexcockell> Core switch in Slough went bang and took the whole bloody network with it.
<shauno> if a bug has been milestoned for oneiric-updates, does that mean it won't be oneiric at release?
<popey> no
<popey> it will go to -updates
<ali1234> their whole operation was routed through slough?
<ali1234> lol
<alexcockell> Europe, North Africa etc was..
<alexcockell> And BBMs stacking up in their queues then rolled over to their datacentre in Canada and started affecting everything over there as well.
<TheOpenSourcerer> On the R4 news this eve. they said it was affecting North America too
<alexcockell> Apparently there was a network change going in.. and no disrec or backout plans..
<alexcockell> And auto-failover didn't.
<alexcockell> One fuckin' massive SPOF waiting to happen.
<ali1234> it's still going on? jeez
<alexcockell> Apparently no major net upgrades had happened since 2007..
<popey> 3 days I think
<alexcockell> Oh - and it was *since* then that they decided to add all the consumer traffic.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right reboot Oneric and then time for bed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, breakfast proly
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: this samsung is running oneiric
<alexcockell> So - Cisco 9000 goes bang... and took down all the proxies with it..
<TheOpenSourcerer> "error: sparse file not allowed" It's a grub thing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> bug 464743
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 464743 in grub "error: sparse file not allowed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464743
<TheOpenSourcerer> Notice "New"... Reported 2009-10-30
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you have one partition and it's btrfs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<popey> you need /boot
<popey> AIUI
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: new in grub, fix released in grub2
<TheOpenSourcerer> The installer didn't tell me that
<TheOpenSourcerer> It boots OK - Just pauses to tell me about sparse files
<alexcockell> Oh - re the RIM debacle, I run a Nokia N900... so I'm sitting back with popcorn..
<shauno> I thought that was kinda ironic timing.  the same day apple's take on bbm goes live, bbm's nowhere to be seen
<AlanBell> wonder if matti is very busy right now
<popey> i thought he left
<popey> i like that I can send animated gifs over apple imessage :D
<AlanBell> ah, I see, matti moves on and the whole infrastructure falls apart!
<popey> typical
<wintellect> Anyone else having issues with Virgin media?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right time for bed. nn all.
<wintellect> Seems I can do anything except access port 80 on other servers :(
<shauno> popey, I'm told imessage becomes bbm-compatible if you turn airplane mode on
<AlanBell> o/ TheOpenSourcerer
<popey> haha
<popey> wintellect: no
<wintellect> :'(
<wintellect> thanks popey
<alexcockell> Shauno> LOL
<alexcockell> RIM report msg - as quoted by the Grauniad - "The messaging and browsing delays being experienced by BlackBerry users in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, India, Brazil, Chile and Argentina were caused by a core switch failure within RIM's infrastructure. Although the system is designed to failover to a back-up switch, the failover did not function as previously tested. As a result, a large backlog of data was generated and we are now working to clear
<alexcockell> that backlog and restore normal service as quickly as possible. We apologise for any inconvenience and we will continue to keep you informed."
<shauno> argh .. NTL can't do anything right :/  dvr decided to record exactly 60 seconds of billy connolly
<BigRedS> alexcockell: yeah, I'm still skeptical that it's *a* core switch failure. That's one hell of a SPOF
<alexcockell> If the whole *frame* went phut...
<alexcockell> Cards to each of the related areas... possible?
<alexcockell> But no mesh implemented?  No MPLS infrastructure?  or just PVCs to the related centres?
<BigRedS> what, and no plan for if the DC had gone away?
<alexcockell> Sounds fucking stupid..
<BigRedS> well, yeah
<Seeker`> alexcockell: language
<BigRedS> and, oddly, now doesn't seem to be the time for people to realise that relying on someone else to run a 'free' service for you doesn't always work out well
 * BigRedS pats xmpp server
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I'm sure that's a script
<MattJ> It's not, I assure you
<alexcockell> Apparently, North America was badly affected - as probably BBNs were being rerouted...
<alexcockell> The problem is - they seem to have very few interlinks to the rest of the Net - and they rely on push servers to interrogate remote mailfiles run at external IMAP and POP servers...
<alexcockell> ... on behalf of their users..
<BigRedS> MattJ: ah, I think that proved it.
<alexcockell> Same witht he interlinks to Facebook etc.. and their proxy servers..
<MattJ> BigRedS, or I'm a good scripter
<BigRedS> either it's not a script, or it's a good one :)
<MattJ> ;)
<doad> hi room im currently using ubuntu 11.04 and im finding it rather slow but when i try to download ubuntu 9.10 and try burning it using ubuntus cd burning software it keeps coming up with error when burning disk, i have tried downloading it from several different sites but no good can anyone help me please
<AlanBell> doad: older versions are not neccessarily faster
<AlanBell> what processor and ram size do you have?
<popey> doad: have you tried installing unity-2d on your 11.04 system?
<doad> yeah but my comps quite old and i found using 9.10 faster than 11.04
<popey> its quite a bit faster then unity 3d
<doad> any ideas people?
<doad> 11.04 wont let me burn 9.10 to disk and im stuck :(
<doad> any ideas peeps
<doad> popey << where can i obtain unity -2d
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install unity2d
<doad> do i do that in a terminal?>
<AlanBell> yes
 * AlanBell heads off to bed
<doad> can i ask what does it do?
<AlanBell> happy 11.10 release day everyone, see you at the party later
<hamitron> 12.04 is next :D
<AlanBell> doad: from the login screen you can choose unity2d, it does exactly the same as unity3d, but with less bling (slightly)
<doad> and is it a bit faster like for my firefox  internet and loading other programs
<AlanBell> not much
<AlanBell> what spec  is your computer?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-13
<doad> see i really wanted to get back 9.10 but when i try to burn it to disk it comes up with errors
<AlanBell> what spec  is your computer?
<doad> its old real old its got 256mb ram 120gb hdd and a pentium 3
<doad> im in the middle of upgrading
<AlanBell> crikey
<AlanBell> give up!
<doad> i know
<doad> but see when i was running 9.10 it was running fine
<AlanBell> really, get one on ebay for Â£20 for a much better spec!
<doad> cant i try download it from somewhere and instal ontop of 11.04
<AlanBell> the downloads are fine, you can use md5sum to check them
<AlanBell> night all o/
<doad> ok ill try that ive got a cupboard full of good pc's and laptops but its like a computer graveyard in there and it will take me forever to find all the components but ill try what you said thanks
<hamitron> do a cli and add lxde
<hamitron> cli install*
<doad> whats lxde
<hamitron> erm
<doad> lol
<hamitron> is lubuntu alive?
<doad> oh ok and where can i obtain this
<hamitron> maybe a better place to start, but I'd want someone who knows for sure to confirm it is good
<doad> ok
<hamitron> before recommending it fully to you
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I have a 1.2ghz p3 with 512mb ram
<hamitron> runs well on lxde....
<hamitron> but it will still slow down with the heavyweight apps
<doad> right
<hamitron> alan is probably right though
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron just doesn't like throwing out old hardware
<doad> see im quite new to ubuntu do i obtain these files from my terminal?
<hamitron> well, I normally install it all from the command line.... but
<hamitron> but there is a version of ubuntu that uses lxde by default
<hamitron> !lubuntu
<lubotu3> lubuntu is a project to create a derivative of Ubuntu using the LXDE desktop environment. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu . /join #lubuntu for lubuntu support.
<hamitron> that page is a good place to start
<doad> thanks hamitron
<hamitron> good luck
<hamitron> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 11.10 and London Release Party - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/13/ubuntu-11-10-and-london-release-party/
<hannibal> Hey!
<hannibal> anyone here?
<Guest14475> the...?
<Guest14475> Ok, then! I'm a guest now, so treat me well! :-)
<Guest14475> guise, I need some help...
<Guest14475> !!!
<Guest14475> And, I guess this could be one of the many reasons why Linux holds onle 1% of the market share... Support is almost null sometimes!!!
<Seeker`> eugh, itunes copying to an iphone is soooooooooo slowwwwwwwwwwwwww
<Seeker`> upgrading to ios5 means copying my library over again
<Seeker`> 351/2482 :/
<shauno> uff .. appears dennis ritchie died :/  now that's a legacy
<Seeker`> wow
<RichTUK> 1% what... get some more patients and do some more studying
<david_> Can I re-install with apt the LAMP stack - what command would I use? Me a noob -sorry
<sebsebseb> hi
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> 02:41 < Guest14475> And, I guess this could be one of the many reasons why Linux holds onle 1% of the market share... Support is almost null sometimes!!!
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> yes, 02:41 would indeed be one of those times
 * daubers cooks up bacon and eggs for breakfast
<AlanBell> sunny side up for me
<daubers> Also, it's cold :(
<daubers> Coming back to this from temperatures in the 38's is a bit o a shock
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all/
<MartijnVdS> howdy TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> ooops who put / next to
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 20th October 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Ubuntu 11.10 Release Day \o/
<smittix> Another 10 hours to wait for 11.10 :/
<MooDoo> 10 hours?
<MooDoo> oh got ya :D
<BigRedS> what? There's a set time for it this time?
<smittix> according to thisisthecountdown.com :)
<BigRedS> ah yeah. somehow I'd forgotten about that
 * BigRedS blames an absence of coffee
<smittix> heh
 * MooDoo drinks his costa :) :p
 * smittix drinks his 20p crap cup of coffee from the vending machine :/
<MooDoo> i needed proper coffee, in for a crap day today
<AlanBell> smittix: it will be released before 7PM I should think
<MooDoo> smittix: can't you just download the beta and then upgrade?
<AlanBell> or the daily and have less to upgrade
<BigRedS> or just upgrade on sunday when the mirrors wont all be on their knees
 * BigRedS is a debian user. I don't really get release dates.
 * TheOpenSourcerer will probably be holding off for a while...
<smittix> Yeah, I suppose.
 * smittix prods popey - Any news on the Ubuntu-Users list vacancy?
<BigRedS> wait. Ritchie's dead? That's not supposed to happen
<TheOpenSourcerer> People die all the time
<TheOpenSourcerer> And people can die at *anytime* too.
<BigRedS> yeah, but he's init. Everyone else is supposed to be killed of first.
 * AlanBell is having a low brainpower day
<BigRedS> That said, I've no idea what he's been doing since the 70s. I've just been quite fond of this state where almost everyone who was involved in the invention of modern computing is still alive
<TheOpenSourcerer> not trying to install compiz on a client's server again?
<AlanBell> just microwaved a cup of coffee that I had forgotten about and whilst waiting for it to warm up I absent mindedly made myself a cup of coffee
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<BigRedS> haha
<smittix> HEH
<MooDoo> AlanBell: doh!
<smittix> heh, Put that mac on swapz.co.uk - Been offered cars, motorcycles, guitars . Everything but a bloody laptop!
<MooDoo> smittix: what you got?
<smittix> Even though the ad states "I'd be interested in swapping for a laptop only"
<smittix> Its a Mac Pro Quad Core 2.66
<MooDoo> nice.
<smittix> Dual Dual Core Processor's
<smittix> Trying to get rid of it without putting it on ebay.
<MooDoo> if my dell was working properly i would probably have been up for that
<smittix> My current laptop is playing up so want something else, and I dont have the room fori t.
<MooDoo> smittix: my cd rom is knackard although i've got a external, and there are dead pixels on screen lol
<smittix> heh
<MooDoo> smittix: thank goodness for 4gb and a ssd :)
<smittix> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> very lol: https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/124394040899801088
<DJones> Ouch
<smittix> lol
<smittix> Anyone know what Lenovo T400's are like?
<BigRedS> that's the big thinkpad isn't it?
<smittix> Yeah
<BigRedS> my diddy one (x201) is awesome.
<BigRedS> in fact, all my thinkpads have been good :)
<BigRedS> but this is my first lenovo one and it seems as good as the ibm ones
<smittix> I have always liked them but Havent used one for years.
<BigRedS> It feels a tad cheaper than the old IBM ones, but it's lived up pretty well to my, er, less-than-careful ownership of it
<smittix> heh
<tim__> hi guys what time is 11.10 out?
<AlanBell> tim__: some time today. join #ubuntu-release-party
<MartijnVdS> Every time you ask, it's delayed another minute.
<oimon> 11.10 is out today? whoah, somehow thought it was later in the month
<RichTUK> comes out pretty soon mate
<czajkowski> aloha
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<andylockran> howdy all
<czajkowski> morning all
<andylockran> anyone having issues logging into the wiki?
<danfish> ahoy hoy savaloys!
<gord> i really need to start answering my phone with "ahoy hoy"
<gord> is it out yet?
<kazade> hehe
<kazade> I was gonna type the same thing :p
<directhex> anyone else got no internal speaker sound with oneiric?
<gord> like the speaker that goes beep? i lost that several releases back
<directhex> i mean at all
<MooDoo> blimey, how about this.  It's released when it's released.....sigh lol
<directhex> i only get sound via headphones
<gord> all my laptop speakers work fine
<gord> and desktop
<gord> just not the one that goes beep
<RichTUK> gord its out in 9 hours or so, there is a countdown clock at http://thisisthecountdown.com/
<gord> hehe 9 hours or so
<oimon> any thunderbird users managed to get the ubuntu notifications working since v6?
<gord> replace 9 with $rand
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<gord> oimon, you have thunderbird-globalmenu installed? i *think* then notifications are piggybacked on to that
<oimon> gord: i'm on lucid
<gord> oimon, ah...
<directhex> gord, in "sound settings", in the output tab, which devices are in the connector pulldown menu?
<oimon> there's a thunderbird plugin for ubuntu notifications, but seems to have stopped working on later versions
<gord> directhex, analogue, but i have a bunch of devices so its different for different ones
<JamesTait> Happy Release Day, everyone!
<czajkowski> popey: get all your issues resolved?
<bigcalm> Is it out yet?
<bigcalm> Is that a defrag image?
<smittix> heh
<RichTUK> bigcalm: not out yet
<bigcalm> 7pmish then
<diplo> Morning all
<smittix> bigcalm: yup
<diplo> Wondering if any one can point me in direction of performance issues with *linux in general testing
<diplo> IE we have got a lot more powerful server yet it's running things slower, want to pick out if it;s a hardware fault or software I guess
<diplo> Old server running a report takes 20 secs with 200+ users, new server with 0 users takes 52 secs
<diplo> hdparm is similar output
<popey> Morning all
<popey> czajkowski: no
<kazade> morning popey
<kirrus> diplo: have you tried using bonnie to check I/O speed?
<czajkowski> popey: bugger
<diplo> Nope, not heard of bonnie, I'll investigate now. Been using IOStat and seen nada there
<czajkowski> popey: poked folks in -desktop wwith the bugs ?
<popey> not yet
<popey> they are aware of them
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> I think it'#s good
<czajkowski> but thre does seem to be too many niggle bugs still lurking
<andylockran> yeah
<andylockran> popey: one last night for example
<popey> morning andylockran
<andylockran> morning popey
 * popey wonders what free stuff andylockran got for his blatant advertising blog post
<constrictor> andylockran, popey morning
<czajkowski> I think that's the big downside to a fixed date release
<czajkowski> it should/could happen any time in october for 11
<czajkowski> fixing it to a date not sure is actually working
<oimon> i get less excited by ubuntu releases each year. i don't know if that's because i've tested the beta for months already, or that releases have been less momentous in terms of features since 10.04?
<andylockran> czajkowski: I understand why there's a date there - but I'm not sure if there's too much focus on 'new features'
<andylockran> i.e. LTS releases should be the rock solid stable ones
<andylockran> these 6 monthly releases should be considered beta of LTS releases imho
<oimon> the next LTS won't have anything like gnome classic though :-\
<MartijnVdS> oimon: xfce :P
<oimon> xfc-ugly
<MartijnVdS> lxde?
<oimon> quite nice, although feels more kde3 to me
<oimon> for average corporate users on 10.04 , the 12.04 will be a struggle
<MartijnVdS> eww
<czajkowski> oimon: I'm ok with the lack of classic I like unity
<MartijnVdS> oimon: not more than WinXP->Win7
<oimon> i have many users on kde3 still
<oimon> centos5.x
<oimon> they've been using it for 10 years
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIrhVo1WA78
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ^
<directhex> persists through a reboot. sigh
<oimon> MartijnVdS: in the related videos, there seems to be a whole meme of <thing> for 10 minutes
<oimon> watch nelson "ha ha" for 10 minutes
<gord> aww, krename is broken in oneiric, i'm going to have to use actual bash :(
<popey> seems that bug i filed last night is well know by design and unity
<oimon> alt-tab?
<popey> bug 873082
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 873082 in unity (Ubuntu) "ALT+Tab doesn't switch between two most recent windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873082
<popey> and _is_ current desired behaviour
<popey> according to bug 861250
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 861250 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt-tab - quick alt + tab (before the switcher shows) not consistent" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861250
<gord> popey, get people to hit the also affects me button, i hate it too :)
<popey> should I mark my bug as a dupe do you think?
<oimon> but popey, why would you ever want more than one terminal windows :P
<Daviey> don't find bugs on the day of release!!
<popey> it doesnt just affect terminal windows
<Daviey> oh, i'm good then
<popey> it affects any app that is multi-window
<gord> marking as a dupe seems sensible
<gord> seems like the same issue
<kazade_> popey: I just checked in Gnome-shell, the behaviour seems the same
<kazade_> however, I heard there was a lot of noise about it so there is a G-S extension to go back to the old-fashioned behaviour
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Join The Online Ubuntu Release Party - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/13/join-the-online-ubuntu-release-party/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Guest Bloggers - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/13/guest-bloggers/
<BigRedS> Oh. Oh. I assumed that was just
<popey> kazade: its properly mental
<BigRedS> ah, so my keypresses *are* getting to the server. Just about forty minutes later...
<nymwar> When is the 11.10 release date?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> today
<nymwar> today?  Oh, that was good timing then.  I was just wondering about this earlier
<bigcalm> About 7pm tonight
<nymwar> ok
<constrictor> 7pm is too far away I want it now
 * MooDoo is predicting 43 people ask when is the release date, any one for their guess.
<oimon> constrictor: i'm sure you can get the RC now
<oimon> and apt-get update later
<czajkowski> about 4pm today as drinks start from 5/6 onwards
<constrictor> already did that with my personal laptop (xubuntu)
<constrictor> it's perfect
<oimon> does xubuntu come with ubuntu one integration etc?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: as we can't bet on the release time, this is the alternative?
<gord> oimon, depends what applications you use in it. if you install the u1 daemon, then ~/Ubuntu One will be synchronized - however you won't be able to set more folders to synchronize unless you use nautilus
<MooDoo> bigcalm: sorry i'm just grumpy and wonder how many more impatient people will ask :D
<gord> is it out yet?
<oimon> !topic
<lubotu3> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<smittix> Didn't think there was a RC of 11.10
<directhex> i miss audio :(
<gord> how would you do a release without a release candidate?
<smittix> I can't find the RC
<constrictor> oimon, no xubuntu doesn't I didn't use that much anyway
<BigRedS> MooDoo: the whole the-more-you-ask-the-more-it's-delayed thing should really be implemented
<oimon> i think the oneconf stuff can be a killer feature for ubuntu
<MooDoo> BigRedS: hear hear :)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I'm tempted to do that with my clients ;)
<nymwar> what is oneconf?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: try asking in #ubuntu-release-party
<gord> bigcalm, problem is, we would actually like to release some time this year ;)
<gord> BigRedS* ^
<gord> stop having similar nicks you two >:(
<bigcalm> Bwuhahaha
<oimon> nymwar: using ubuntu one to store configs and application settings to make it easier to use multiple machine and perform super easy reinstalls and upgrades
<nymwar> ah
<oimon> it's a work in progress
<smittix> Is it out yet?
<smittix> What about now?
<smittix> Ok, Now?
<oimon> release the hounds on smittix
<smittix> That would have taken it back 3 hours
 * AlanBell kicks smittix to #ubuntu-release-party
<smittix> heh
<Laney> did that ARG finish?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: can't you just kick hom?
<MooDoo> s/him
<_serial_> hi all, do you guys know when the iso's will be release for 11.10?
<_serial_> released*
<bigcalm> UUPC mentioned about chromium being old and the update manager wants to bring it up to date
<AlanBell> _serial_: no, but feel free to join #ubuntu-release party and ask there
<bigcalm> Feel the power of the podcast
<_serial_> thank you AlanBell
<AlanBell> _serial_: join #ubuntu-release-party even
<smittix> MooDoo: Thats not nice :P
<MooDoo> smittix: what isn't?
<smittix> asking alan to kick me heh
<MooDoo> smittix: ah i'm in one of those moods, feel free to poke me at will :)
<MooDoo> smittix like this czajkowski *POKE* :)
<czajkowski> >:(
<MooDoo> czajkowski: well seeing as davmor2 wasn't here, it's my job to fill in :)
<czajkowski> yeah where is that little you know whatits
<MooDoo> czajkowski: just logged in by the look of it......now we can harras you more :)
<popey> AlanBell: what time you heading into town?
<AlanBell> after the school run
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod
<davmor2> morning all
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 I suggest you behave 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: are you in a stressed mood?
<MooDoo> morning GirlyGIrl :D
<AlanBell> 5pm train maybe, have to grab an offspring from a netball match
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ha! not gonna happen
<czajkowski> MooDoo: nope
<GirlyGIrl> MooDoo: Hi
<MooDoo> GirlyGIrl: are you well?
<GirlyGIrl> MooDoo: Ehy such a question?
<davmor2> gord: friggin app launcher suck in oneiric and I blame you personally for it ;)
<kirrus> GirlyGIrl: because we're a friendly bunch? :-)
<MooDoo> GirlyGIrl: just being friendly and nosey and making conversation
<oimon> etherpadlite opens new notes, but hangs at "loading..." for existing notes - any ideas?
<GirlyGIrl> MooDoo: Fine then :d
 * MooDoo makes a mental note, totally ignore any one that joins the channel as he doesn't like the spanish inquisition [moodoo waits to see if anyone will say say it]
<davmor2> gord: I have thunderbird and xchat maximised and now the launcher won't show at all
<kirrus> MooDoo: that didn't make any sense
<davmor2> gord: I have to hit the windows button to open/swap apps :(
<MooDoo> kirrus: i said spanish inquisition, wondered if anyone would comment [ala monty python]
<gord> davmor2, yeah its known
<davmor2> gord: :(
<davmor2> not a happy bunny
<gord> restarting compiz should help
<kirrus> MooDoo: ahh, never seen monty python..
<davmor2> gord: yeah but I should have too ;)
<BigRedS> kirrus: what!?
<BigRedS> Oh, hang on, I recall being astounded at that before
<bigcalm> Spooky convo.
<kirrus> BigRedS: I'll watch your youtube video link after you've seen the fifth element.
<MooDoo> not seen monty python??? disgraceful
<MooDoo> :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: when you said that somebody had never seen MP, I found it hard to believe
<davmor2> kirrus: get off this channel and don't return till you know it word for word
<AlanBell> popey: really not enjoying the alt-tab behavior now
<MooDoo> davmor2: bring out your dead :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: He's not the massiah, he's a very naughty boy
<kirrus> davmor2: the snippets I've seen made me cringe
<BigRedS> cringe?
<davmor2> kirrus: don't watch snippet watch the whole film
<BigRedS> and all of them
<BigRedS> and most of the series
<kirrus> I don't like the humor.
<AlanBell> twice
<czajkowski> I've never watched a whole Mp film
<BigRedS> kirrus: it's humour :)
<kirrus> BigRedS: which doesn't mesh with my sense of humor
 * kirrus knows he's odd
<BigRedS> no, your sense of humour
<davmor2> kirrus: Stone him, are there any Ladies here?
<czajkowski> you're talk to MooDoo and davmor2 and they're pretty odd
<czajkowski> so you're ok
<kirrus> Woo! \o/
<MooDoo> czajkowski: bugger off
<davmor2> MooDoo: Language timothy
<MooDoo> davmor2: yea sorry
<davmor2> MooDoo: we are pretty and odd to be fair take it as a compliment that czajkowski thinks you're pretty
<bigcalm> heh
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski knows i'm pretty, i mean just look at all my facebook images :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: we do seem to have a similar taste in humour oh hang along with pretty much the entire channel so that makes us all odd in your book :P
 * czajkowski sends MooDoo and davmor2 to the naughtystep to stop talking for 10 mins 
<davmor2> czajkowski: hahahahahaaha we talk all we want on the naughtystep
<kirrus> czajkowski: do you really think that'll work?
<AlanBell> davmor2: czajkowski is an oasis of sanity in the desert of buffonery and tomfoolery
 * AlanBell doesn't really believe that
<davmor2> AlanBell: careful you are at the release party tonight and she has a memory
<MooDoo> feel free to join us on #naughtystep :)
<AlanBell> yay, my openerp module loads without crashing
<AlanBell> now to make it do something
<popey> AlanBell: good! me-too the bug please
<AlanBell> popey: did already
<czajkowski> popey: me too
<davmor2> popey: what bug?
<bigcalm> There are no bugs?
<AlanBell> bug 873082
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 873082 in unity (Ubuntu) "ALT+Tab doesn't switch between two most recent windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873082
<MooDoo> bugs?  on release day? surely not
<MartijnVdS> but unity is PERFECT
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't have ANY bugs
<MartijnVdS> Everything it does, it does by design!
<AlanBell> which is why the bug is against ayatana design as well :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it's amusing how much of it could plausibly just be down to a drunk design team
<czajkowski> alt tabbig is slow for me in 2D and 3d
<czajkowski> really really anoying
<czajkowski> it takes an age for the default display of applications to pop up
<czajkowski> drives me insane
<MooDoo> install fedora
 * MooDoo ducks and runs
<bigcalm> Mmmm, crispy duck
<gord> czajkowski, that.. is by design
<gord> basically because if you are alt tabbing about between things, you don't want the windows
<BigRedS> huh?
 * smittix trips MooDoo up
<AlanBell> and on the non-unity switchers it is a configurable delay
<MooDoo> smittix: rats foiled again
 * BigRedS *does* want the windows
<AlanBell> and really there is little point in the delay when quick alt-tabbing doesn't generally do something predictable anyway
<davmor2> AlanBell: so I wonder what magic thisisthecountdown.com holds for us today
<BigRedS> AlanBell: exactly. When I select that icon which represents six or seven different windows, it'd be nice to have some idea of which desktop I'm going to be transported to, even if I can't affect what unity decides to do there
<davmor2> oh the worlds longest barcode genius
<AlanBell> davmor2: it is a qr code
<davmor2> AlanBell: oh no it isn't,  well it's not one that my phone recognises at any rate
<AlanBell> davmor2: you have to chop it up on the red lines, reassemble it and reverse it
<bigcalm> Haha
 * bigcalm gets to work
<Laney> what happens at 7pm?
<davmor2> AlanBell: NO time for such frivolities
<MooDoo> Laney: ubuntu release
<davmor2> MooDoo: Release Party more like
<MooDoo> davmor2: can't go :(
<Laney> i will be enbeered by then
<davmor2> MooDoo: nor me, I got way too much to do that requires more than the 2 laptops I could take to London
<MooDoo> davmor2: rosie is just too young for me to get a pass out just yet
<davmor2> MooDoo: You love it you know you do
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes i do, but meeting you lot would be nice too :)
<davmor2> haha
<davmor2> MooDoo: shame you don't work from Home you could of come to the Home Workers Anonymous on the 17th of nov
<MooDoo> well you davmor2 not czajkowski :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's only cause you'd have to put your hand in your pocket for that pint you still owe her :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh shush she's forgotten about that
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's beer you don't stand a chance of czajkowski forgetting that
<smittix> The beta has gone from the oniric folder on cdimage.ubuntu.com
<smittix> now it actually says "release"
<gordonjcp> ooo
<smittix> Looks like its out http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.10/release/
<popey> *sigh*
<AlanBell> when skaet says it is out it is out
<popey> it isnt out until this page has content on it https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2011-October/000153.html
<DJones> smittix: The announcement email hasn't been sent out yet, so its not out yet, anything else is rumours or unsynched iso's for now
<czajkowski> smittix: long day ahead give it another 3-4 hrs ok
<directhex> why does it matter?
<smittix> heh ok
<directhex> you can do-release-upgrade now
<popey> indeed you can
 * BigRedS wanders off to update his twitter bot
<popey> heh
<BigRedS> every time it gets a bit later
<BigRedS> one day I'll automate it or somthing
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I've constructed what looks like a qr code from that image, but google goggles doesn't like it yet
<AlanBell> reverse it
<bigcalm> I'm wondering if I've missed a line
<bigcalm> My image is 25 px high
<bigcalm> Could have been human error
 * bigcalm writes a script to manipulate it
<AlanBell> should look a bit like this http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14204175/qr.png :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it doesn't look like miss piggy hitting kermit in a czajkowski chop then it's wrong
<kirrus> davmor2: what's a czajkowski chop?
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> kirrus: prey you never know
<kirrus> davmor2: hunted animals never know?
<kirrus> :P
<davmor2> AlanBell: that's just nasty locking the file
<Singham> Hi..I have win 7 and ubuntu on my hard disk...If I remove ubuntu , will the windows start automatically ? Or I have to install mbr etc.. ?
<DJones> Singham: You'll need to reinstall the mbr
<Singham> DJones : How to do that ?
<DJones> !fixmbr
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<DJones> Thats not quite what I was hoping for
<Singham> !mbr
<brobostigon> there was a dos program, to restore a dos and or windows mbr, if memory serves.
<AlanBell> davmor2: eventhorizon
<DJones> Singham: This looks about right http://www.ehow.com/how_4836283_repair-mbr-windows.html
<DJones> I'm not sure how you can do it if you don't have a Win 7 disc though
<gord> couldn't you just set grub to boot into windows?
<gord> my grub 2 skills are lacking/nonexistant - but thats what i would do if it were grub1
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: fdisk /mbr
<Singham> DJones : Thanks..will tyr it.. :)
<Singham> gord : how to do it
<Singham> ?
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: thats it. :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: you guys have way too much time on your hands :D
<brobostigon> twitter.com/GrumpyOldSodBan lol
<Andres-kain> is this thing on?
<AlanBell> yes Andres-kain
<daubers> lo
<BigRedS> hah. wow. I'm 7 minutes away from the release do tonight apparently.
<BigRedS> I might even be early
 * kirrus grumbles about lucky people
<popey> I'm 70 mins away
<bigcalm> Any PHP peeps want to play with a script I just wrote to reassemble the countdown qr code?
<bigcalm> Because it's not giving me a qr code that google goggles can read
<AlanBell> have you reversed it?
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/707301/
<bigcalm> Do you mean reverse the colours or mirroring the image?
<AlanBell> colours
<bigcalm> Doh
<AlanBell> black=white white=black
<bigcalm> Indeed
<MartijnVdS> can't you make compiz do that?
<bigcalm> Haha, can't open 7zip files by default
<bigcalm> It's password protected!
<bigcalm> :D
<MartijnVdS> "aubergine"
<bigcalm> AlanBell: is the password known?
<bigcalm> Aww, don't give it away so quickly :)
 * MartijnVdS was just guessing
<bigcalm> Wrong guess :D
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: apt-get install crack :P
<bigcalm> It's not this or next release names
<bigcalm> Hummz
<MartijnVdS> sabdfl?
<MartijnVdS> plain "ubuntu"?
 * AlanBell did say it earlier
<bigcalm> No and no
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah, starting with e?
<bigcalm> Why would you say it? ;)
<bigcalm> Makes sense though
<bigcalm> AlanBell: so you are part of all of this
<AlanBell> 3it is a conspiracy
<AlanBell> but I am not in on it
<bigcalm> You're named :)
<AlanBell> #awholenewworld is the place to go
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kl4hJ4j48s
<bigcalm> This is a fun game indeed
<davmor2> hey popey  how long till zaney zebra?
<MartijnVdS> popey: is it out yet? and will it contain KDE4?
<davmor2> popey: my reckoning is 17.04
<tim____> when will ubuntu 11.10 be released
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2011-October/000153.html
<awilkins> Hmm? There's a release planned, you say?
 * awilkins goes back to sleep
<heeed> are we there yet?
<gord> is 12.04 out yet?
 * kirrus bashes gord with the don't-be-a-child blow-up mallet
<kirrus> (and heeed)
 * awilkins emits the standard "Timmy Mallet's Mallet" noise
 * kirrus googles Timmy Mallet's Mallet
<smittix> gord: HAH!
<gord> this is the only fun i get to have all through the cycle :( everything else is just people complaining at me
<davmor2> gord: the amount of work that needs to go into it I would imagine trunk is available now right?
<smittix> Can I upgrade to Intrepid yet?
<gord> davmor2, trunk what?
<davmor2> gord: for all the new software
<Nafallo> happy release guys! :-)
<imexil> I'm not really sure if I can be happy with a release where synaptic is broken :(
<freckle> I have a 3 monitor setup with 2 Nvidia cards. Is Unity going to work for me?
 * czajkowski hugs Nafallo 
 * Nafallo hugs czajkowski back :-)
<diplo> freckle, I didn't have much luck
<diplo> with natty
<diplo> But also didn't have a lot of patience this time
<davmor2> guys take the time to take the tour it's awesome
<diplo> I'm running Oneric on lappy at home, find it slow and unfinished tbh
<freckle> diplo: since going to 11.04 my 3 monitor experince has dimished over 10.044
<freckle> 10.04
<diplo> Yep, I moved to 10.10 after trying natty
<diplo> everything worked perfectly
<diplo> :/
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 20th October 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Ubuntu 11.10 Release Day \o/ | YES it is out!
<diplo> I'm not against it perse the new look and working, I just find it on both releases buggy as hll
<freckle> I find it amazing you can't get a classic desktop out of the box
<freckle> is there a rationale to that?
<BigRedS> freckle: gnome 2 isn't supported any more
<BigRedS> 11.10 ships with gnome3 which is incapale of doing a gnome2 de
<freckle> BigRedS: I understand that but why stop supporting when the alternative is a backward step in many respects
<diplo> I suppose if Gnome are not supporting 2.* then security issues etc
<davmor2> freckle: Because it is no more?  who do you expect to support it?
<diplo> Gnome/Canonical have both made the decision to move on, so whats the point in supporting it
<constrictor> just got an email it's alive!!!!
<freckle> I understand all of that but I think the alternative is inferior
<diplo> Who knows, someone may fork it yet
<diplo> Yep, I'm not sold.. XFCE/LXDE or use a distro that still is using 2.* ?
<diplo> Or KDE
<freckle> I use Ubuntu for my desktop at work and Unity is a disaster in this scenario
<andatche> unity is a disaster full stop when multiple monitors are involved :(
<freckle> all of my colleagues who use Ubuntu feel the same.
<ali1234> unity is still better than anything that isn't gnome 2.x
<davmor2> freckle: so don't use it there are plenty of options out there
<gordonjcp> unity is actually okay once you get rid of the stupid menu-at-the-top thing, and put the window decorations back on the right side
<andatche> I love openbox on the desktop, but it lacks some of the convenience features I need a laptop
<constrictor> it just inverted all my eclipse menu
<freckle> davmor2: so what is a good desktop for triple monitors:?
<ali1234> apparently xfce has good multimonitor support
<jaymeskeller> Unity may be helpful in the case of netbooks/anything portable. Not on desktops, I say.
<gordonjcp> it would be nice if it had a proper taskbar and didn't take up such a huge amount of space with that strip down the side
<ali1234> as long as it is real multimonitor nd not twinview
<davmor2> freckle: no idea I don't use 3 monitors
<constrictor> so "help" comes first and "file" comes last
<BigRedS> I really don't get that. It seems as bad to me on a desktop as anything else
<freckle> lol4
<jaymeskeller> And yes, I did get the memo that 11.10 is live. Not in a hurry to upgrade though.
<jaymeskeller> Might wait until it's settled down some.
<BigRedS> well, if you were in a hurry you'd have skipped the rush and done it yesterday
<jaymeskeller> Really?
<BigRedS> well, the RC as it stood yesterday would be basically the same as what's just been released
<jaymeskeller> Ah. I see.
<BigRedS> and so you'd have a minimal upgrade to do whenever everyone stops ddossing all the mirrors
<jaymeskeller> Not to mention that bugs that were missed for whatever reason will be fixed by that time. For example, when I first got natty, it was flaky with RAID support. Now it's working fine.
<jaymeskeller> Although that could have also been nvidia acting the goat again.
<BigRedS> ell
<BigRedS> oop.
<popey> http://www.lonap.net/bandwidth.shtml
<BigRedS> well, they'll fix some bugs and introduce more :)
<popey> will that climb âº
<BigRedS> some way to go to beat apple
<popey> yeah
<BigRedS> though the spike from 10.04 scared me
<BigRedS> http://www.lonap.net/mrtg/lonap-total-year.png
<BigRedS> at least I assume that's what it is
<BigRedS> hah. no. wrong month :)
<jaymeskeller> Mind you, there's always using a VM to road-test it. :)
<BigRedS> which wouldn't catch your hardware bug
<jaymeskeller> True. Then again, it's useful for testing if software I compile on a regular basis form mercurial and so on still work.
<jaymeskeller> Although getting an ISO of orneric is tricky due to the aformentioned bandwith spike.
<jacobw> torrent
<jaymeskeller> That's what I thought.
<scoundrel50a> Hi, I got my e-mail telling me Oneiric is finally out to download. it gives the urls to get the download, but I want to upgrade using the update manager, but its not showing on there yet, how do i get the upgrade that way
<kirrus> scoundrel50a: wait
<kirrus> it's not released yet
<kirrus> scoundrel50a: ahh, sorry, it has released
<kirrus> try updating your package lists. Personally, I'd wait though, you'll wait ages for it to download
<esteeven> Hello 11.10. How can I edit the services that start when I log on?
<Azelphur> esteeven: startup applications?
<gordonjcp> the ubuntu tour is pretty cool
<bigcalm> The update manager can't download the release notes so no upgrade for me yet
<addicted2ramen> hello
<bigcalm> Is it me you are looking for?
<addicted2ramen> me?
<addicted2ramen> lol
<bigcalm> I'm just singing, ignore me
<addicted2ramen> lionel richie...nice touch
<addicted2ramen> *yawns*
 * DJones replaces the lionel ritchie song in bigcalm's head with Agadoo......
<bigcalm> DJones: do you like to sing along with Oompa Lumpa?
<smittix> hmm can't resize the launcher with CCSM
<DJones> I'll give that a miss thanks
<bigcalm> I assume that the Update Manager can't get the release notes due to network load?
<bigcalm> popey: stop playing with Ubuntu and upgrade the mc servers to 1.9pre4!
<smittix> There is nothing still that changes the mouse cursor properley. I have tried using gnome-tweak-tools to change the cursor to DMZ_Black and it still doesnt work. Only manually changing the index.theme in /usr/share/icons/default works.
 * BigRedS has found a bug in this ubuntu tour thing
<BigRedS> If I try to view a tour in a tour in a tour I can't get at the side panel thingy
<gord> PEBCAK
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I'm quite impressed, though
<davmor2> BigRedS: you're not meant to the T'interweb implodes on itself if you do ;)
<oimon> just seen a bug with the longest title in humanity
<oimon> surprised launchpad allows them that long
<davmor2> oimon: there are ways and means, my friend, ways and means
<oimon> i'd post the bug number in here but it would lubotu3 would kill me
 * popey tickles ali1234 
<popey> er AlanBell
<popey> :D
<oimon> popey: agree, thenewubuntu.com is a well made site
<hcfd> Hi, has anyone got advice on installing Windows 7 alongside Ubuntu? I have 7 HDDs, 6 of which are Ubuntu/ext3 and ext4 RAID1 mirrors. The 7th drive I want to install Windows 7 on. I propose to use the Win7 USB installer, point at HDD#7, install, then use BIOS boot order to boot that drive. Later I will add Win7 to GRUB. Will my Ubuntu installation be fine?
<hcfd> GRUB (and /) is on /dev/sda and /dev/sdc ... I'm guessing Win7 will not touch these drives or any of the others?
<ali1234> install windows first
<ali1234> if you can't install windows first, unplug all other drives to prevent windows from screwing with them
<hcfd> Well that's my main question.. do I need to unplug the drives or not
<hcfd> Also, I'm on Ubuntu now (using all 6 current disks). Win7 is going on its own disk.
<hcfd> No MBR backup/restore needed I'm assuming.
<hcfd> Win7 will put its own MBR on its own disk. BIOS determines which OS boots (sda or sdc = Ubuntu via GRUB, and sdX = Win7)
<hcfd> I'm guessing Windows 7 will see the sdX drive just fine
<hcfd> Later.. when all is working.. Win7 can be added to GRUB
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) Review - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/10/ubuntu-11-10-review/
<smittix> wow seeing some really slow wireless problems in 11.10
<oimon> anyone running cyanogen 7.1 ? MooDoo?
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> Humm, changing the software source from GB mirror to main server has sped up the upgrade process
<bigcalm> I wonder if the next Wii console with have 802.11N. I would like to ditch g
<bigcalm> The wii and my joggler are the only devices left on g I think
<Azelphur> wtf, this is really messed up
<Azelphur> If I go to /media/ there's nothing there
<Azelphur> in both a terminal and nautilus
<Azelphur> but if I click the "1.0TB File System" button in nautilus, it takes me to /media/<uid> and it works
<Azelphur> but /media/ is still an empty folder
<Azelphur> how the hell does that work xD
<rindolf> Hi all.
<oimon> Azelphur: anything under the output of the mount command?
<Azelphur> oimon: nope I can't see it in there
<Azelphur> oimon: http://i.imgur.com/eW5MV.png
<DJones> Azelphur: Is it supposed to be auto mounted via fstab?
<Azelphur> DJones: I just clicked on the icon in nautilus to mount it
<DJones> Azelphur: I ask that because I've got some nfs shares I mount and tehre should be an icon on the desktop for each one, but sine 11.10, I've not had the icon, haven't investigated it yet, but I wondered if mine aren't auto-mounting as they should
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> nah this is 11.04
<DJones> They're not being mounted under /mnt by any daft chance are they
<Azelphur> nope
<DJones> Is it the same after a reboot?
<Azelphur> dunno, don't particularly wanna reboot that machine. I can work around it by navigating direct to that folder anyway
<gord> Azelphur, check ~/.gvfs/ - i think some stuff gets mounted under there
<Azelphur> gord nope
<ando> Has anyone else experienced difficulties installing 11.10 from a USB stick?
 * bigcalm cracks a whip at the Ubuntu servers. Download things more quickly!
<ando> It just drops me in an initramfs shell or something
<ando> I'm going to try from a DVD now and see if that helps
<DJones> ando: Have you checked the md5sum of the iso you downloaded
<Azelphur> is it release day today?
<DJones> If the iso is corrupted, the usb stick might be corrupted because of it
<DJones> Azelphur: Yep
<Azelphur> oh, fun :D
<Azelphur> any fancy page that gives a brief overview on what's new?
<DJones> !11.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1 | /join #ubuntu-release-party and wait for the announcement.
<DJones> Nope, thought that went to the release notes
<Azelphur> lol
<DJones> I would guess ubuntu.com will have a list of changes
<DJones> Azelphur: http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/ :)
<DJones> Maybe
<Azelphur> DJones: woa, haha that's cool
<DJones> That does have a whats new link as well
<bigcalm> I look forward to Libre Office correctly handling .docx with track changes enabled
<ando> Azelphur, the md5sums are fine
<ando> Perhaps my USB stick is screwed
<Azelphur> md5sums? o.O
<ando> I'll try from a DVD now anyway
<bigcalm> Had to print a file from MS Office on a windows laptop just to get the correct list of changes :(
<ando> md5sum
<ando> :P
 * AlanBell is on a train
<bigcalm> Not a horse
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Aww
<DJones> A sea horse would be better
<davmor2> AlanBell: wow London has an A trian
<MartijnVdS> A++++  would ride again?
<shauno> my natty bug just got confirmed for precise :(
<bigcalm> Well, means that it'll get looked at...
<shauno> (on the plus side, I do like that I can spell 'precise')
<DJones> shauno: Does it affect Oneiric as well?
<shauno> yeah
<DJones> Thats good, in that if it affects the latest release, there's even more chance of it being investigated/fixed
<shauno> it's been investigated, just waiting for it to trickle down from the mainline kernel now
<czajkowski> I wnanna be on a bus into town
<awilkins> Ack, dammit, why did you have to have the release party in Leeds.
<awilkins> I'm in Leeds. But I have to go home now. Waah. Etc
<czajkowski> awilkins: wghere do you want one to happen ???
<awilkins> Manchester? On a Friday?
<awilkins> :)
<czajkowski> go make one happen so
<czajkowski> simples
<awilkins> Maybe MadLab will have one
<sdh> \o/
<bigcalm> Absolute Radio feeds have all just gone down :(
<ali1234> hackers. everywhere.
<gord> they are gonna hack the planet =\
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15287391
<jacobw> :(
<jacobw> gord: perhaps the IBM Smart Planet :P
<ali1234> "Many users complained on Apple forums that the download was taking time"
<ali1234> are the bbc paying writers by the word now?
<jacobw> their coverage of dennis ritchie's death is underneath their coverage of BBM
<emorris> release parties: do you just put your name down and turn up or...?
<bigcalm> As far as I know
<emorris> is anyone going to the leeds one?
<daftykins> damn - the cyanogenmod channel for the HP touchpad has just gone ridiculous since they released the alpha
<daftykins> full of newbies refusing to read instructions
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: newbies are good at that
<daftykins> ^_^ indeed
<daftykins> oh look new ubuntu - *yawn*
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: this is why I left #ubuntu-nl -- people refusing to read instructions, and then blaming me for pointing them to them ;)
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> ("I followed the instructions, and it doesn't work." "So, did you do X Y Z?" "X Y Z?" "Yes, step 3/5 from that HOWTO I linked earlier" "...")
<MartijnVdS> *shakes fist*
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> Sod the HP Touchpad. I want CM on my Kogan Agora
<daftykins> the what...
<bigcalm> ;)
<daftykins> screw the Kogan Agora, HP touchpad \o/
<bigcalm> :P
<daftykins> =]
<MartijnVdS> I want Google and Samsung to hurry up with the new Nexus
<daftykins> though i'm not touching the alpha for now :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahahahaha CM have probably never heard of it ;)
<bigcalm> Sensible
<daftykins> i enjoy good battery life on my devices
<bigcalm> davmor2: oh hush now :P
<daftykins> and i'm not a big fan of doing things repeatedly
<bigcalm> The Kogan tablet is a rebranded product. So there are lots of devices that will have the same hardware
<daftykins> bigcalm: just buy one and send it to a CM dev
<daftykins> problem sorted \o/
<bigcalm> daftykins: Not _that_ bothered :)
<daftykins> oh WELL
<daftykins> NOW you say
<bigcalm> I know it's being worked upon. But I've lost track of where things are
<daftykins> ah
<bigcalm> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=14737322
<daftykins> yeah found that just now
<daftykins> seems CM don't really care 'til XDA finish
<MartijnVdS> sounds reasonable
<bigcalm> Indeed
<daftykins> oh so it has android already
<daftykins> ok well that's far less of a priority than the HP Touchpad ;)
<bigcalm> Yes, but doesn't work well
<bigcalm> Bah
<brobostigon> get-iplayer --nopurge --get 89     ,brazil :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: :)
 * MartijnVdS goes to watch some other TV first
<Monsterwizard> boob
<bigcalm> Odd
<scoundrel50a> how do I know if I have the correct kernel for 11.10. I didnt get the upgrade button....and it keeps telling me that there is no upgrade available
<scoundrel50a> been updating every day, via the terminal
<emorris> scoundrel50a, uname -r # should be 3.0.0-12
<DJones> scoundrel50a: What version of ubuntu did you have prior to the upgrade?
<scoundrel50a> it was the beta version, I did sudo apt-get dist-upgrade this morning, really early, and since then it tells me there are no upgrades.
<DJones> Over the last few days, there have been very few updates because they were finalising the images
<scoundrel50a> It seems I am up to date, with out a huge upgrade, it says after that command I have 3.0.0-12-generic
<DJones> That sounds about right
<scoundrel50a> That is good news I was dreading a huge upgrade
<scoundrel50a> brilliant
<scoundrel50a> thank you
<smittix> are the mirrors getting hammered or what?
<smittix> trying to update a natty box and getting nowhere
<DJones> I would expecr they're being hammered at the minute, you could change to a different repo and try with that
<scoundrel50a> I got the Tomboy Synch working as well, it was a simple as removing the / at the end of the url
<jacobw> smittix: have you got many extra packages on this natty box?
<smittix> quite a few.
<smittix> im begining to think its my connection now
<DJones> I'm just trying to get on the lubuntu site, but that must be overloaded
<ali1234> how do i make virtualbox host networking work?
<ali1234> it says there are no drivers
<ali1234> answer: vboxmanage hostonlyif create
<daftykins> main prog didn't install those bits? how poo
<ali1234> they are installed but not enabled
<ali1234> you don't need it for 99% of the time
<daftykins> hmm
<Azelphur> ali1234: any idea how to get USB in virtualbox on 11.10?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> just add yourself to the group permissions
<ali1234> same as always
<Azelphur> what group is it again?
<Azelphur> found it, ty :p
<AlanBell> hello from the party
<Azelphur> hello from the home
<MartijnVdS> haha @ BBC 4
<MartijnVdS> Jo Brand about crying on TV
<davmor2> AlanBell: Say hello to everyone for me,  give czajkowski a hug and say hello to Michelle popey and evan_d
<awilkins> How many people in Leeds?
<awilkins> (at party)
<smittix> Hello party people!
<bigcalm> Laptop has just finished upgrading and rebooted. Looks nice. Opening any folder shows the archive manager which complains about not being able to handle it. Dropbox doesn't work anymore.
<bigcalm> More fun after tea I think
<smittix> bigcalm: having weird internet connection problems here
<smittix> getting a lovely 33.4 kb/s upgrading another natty install
<smittix> heh
<StevenR> hmmph. Can't download release notes.
<StevenR> :(
<GirlyGirl> Bye
<bigcalm> StevenR: try changing the software source
<bigcalm> You may have the GB mirror selected, try the main Ubuntu server
<bigcalm> Drumming fingers, waiting for Dropbox to sort itself out
<bigcalm> I don't think it's going to happen
<bigcalm> The sidebar is not showing when I move my mouse to the left hand side of the screen. I have to press the super key to access things
<addicted2ramen> hello....again
<addicted2ramen> .............
<bigcalm> Hi
<bigcalm> Oh, I missed :)
 * smittix gives up
<smittix> Ill update tomorrow lol
<smittix> 40 minutes to install vlc :(
<bigcalm> Are you doing a fresh install?
<smittix> yeah
<bigcalm> It's not really surprising that installs will take a long time tonight :)
<smittix> heh
<bigcalm> Turns out the dropbox updater was trying to do system stuff without asking for permission 1st. So it failed every time
<bigcalm> "sudo dropbox update" worked from the command line
<bigcalm> smittix: ping
<bigcalm> How might I have more than 4 workspaces in Unity?
<mgdm> so, Oneric has removed GNOME classic, correct?
<smittix> bigcalm: does compizconfig-settings-manager have the option to add more workspaces?
<bigcalm> mgdm: yes
<bigcalm> compizconfig-settings-manager: command not found
<smittix> install it :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: byebye Ubuntu, then
<bigcalm> Heh
<smittix> it will take 3 hours to download though
<bigcalm> mgdm: try xfce?
<smittix> mgdm: :( not a Unity fan then?
<mgdm> smittix: oh heck no
<emorris> mgdm, if you install gnome-panel, you get the Ubuntu Classic options back
<mgdm> bigcalm: actually if I can get LXDE I might stick with it
<mgdm> emorris: Oh?
<smittix> mgdm: KDE?
<mgdm> i *detest* Unity, it's unusable for me
<mgdm> smittix: not a huge fan of that
<emorris> mgdm, yeah it installs some fallback package
<mgdm> emorris: interesting
<mgdm> either that or I use this Mac as my main machine
<mgdm> which i'd rather not
<mgdm> (I am no longer interested in the politics of free software/OSS - RMS has put paid to that)
<mgdm> I don't want to be associated with a movement with him at the head of it
<emorris> FOSS OTTness annoys me
<bigcalm> I won't be updating my workstation any time soon as Unity won't be able to cope with 3 screens
<bigcalm> Just about works so far on my laptop though
<mgdm> bigcalm: does it cope with 2?
<bigcalm> Un-maximising everything is a good start
<bigcalm> mgdm: the version on 11.04 didn't do what I needed
<bigcalm> mgdm: I'm slightly unusual in that I have my central screen (2nd) rotated 90deg. So no defaults will ever work for me :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: heh
<bigcalm> I _have_ to have my workstation working. So testing the waters on my laptop
<bigcalm> Wonder how the eeeeeeeepc 1000 would do with 11.10
<smittix> i dont like it how the appearance menu has gone
<smittix> so changing font sizes and themes is more of a pain
<mgdm> Can I install GNOME 3's shell on Ubuntu?
<bigcalm> You have to search for everything now
<bigcalm> Yes, it'll work propperly with 11.10
<mgdm> If I can do that, I might be able to tolerate it
<smittix> i installed gnome-tweak-tool to just change the fonts :/
<bigcalm> Will have a look at Gnome 3 in a bit
<Andres-kain> so what is the waiting period for me to recomend upgrade?
<Andres-kain> as in my non-techie sisterinlaw?
<bigcalm> A month +
<Andres-kain> wow.
<Andres-kain> i have had people say from 1 week to wait for 12.04
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Do you want stability?
<Myrtti> dumdidum
<Andres-kain> bigcalm i guess the basic things really. for a user that uses firefox and little more
<bigcalm> Then upgrade whenever you want. Consider that you'll be providing the support though :)
<Andres-kain> i'll need to upgrade my machine as well. just to know where things are.
<jacobw> i think i prefer unity in natty :s
<zleap> it will be nice when the ubuntu manual is updated (if ever) so new and i mean new users have a good reference for how to use stuff
<bigcalm> Would be good if that were to happen in time for the 12.04 LTS
<zleap> yes
<zleap> but the manual needs to be ready ideally before
<bigcalm> zleap: nice of you to volunteer ;)
<zleap> hmm,  i can contribute something, butdon't really know enough LaTeX
<bigcalm> I know diddly squat
<zleap> i use lyx,  whichis not that helpful really, not for this,
<jacobw> why not?
<zleap> its using texlive
<zleap> so i need to use pure latex by the looks of it,
<zleap> ok so i need to find my ubuntu lauchpad password
<dutchie> zleap: i'm sure that they will be happy to have anyone contributing anything, even just plain text
<dutchie> there are plenty of latex experts in the project who will mark it up afterwards
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> so would i need to have 12.04 beta then
<dutchie> a vm would do
<zleap> i can't even login to lauchpad can't find my password and its bound to my old e-mail address
<Myrtti> LaTeX â¥
<Myrtti> just rewrote a five page rental agreement with it
<zleap> cool
<zleap> ok just strugglingto create a new account,  stupid captcha thing is really hard to read
<AlanBell> yay, home
<AlanBell> anyone go to the Leeds party?
<AlanBell> London was great fun
<funkyHat> wheeee
 * funkyHat prods BigRedS 
<AlanBell> o/ funkyhat
<funkyHat> Ã´/ AlanBell
<bigcalm> Apart from alt-tabbing and number of workspaces, 11.10 seems to work ok on my laptop so far
<emorris> kind of glad I didn't go to the Leeds one
<emorris> 3 ppl asked about it and no-one replied...
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-14
<Azelphur> lol, I just ran htop on my server "Uptime: 107 days(!)"
<Azelphur> that little ! makes me laugh :P
<C-S-B>  compress=lzo as an option for my btrfs home partition is not working, what am I doing wrong?
<C-S-B> no worries sorted.
<RichTUK> im a Lint user mainly, but used ubuntu for a long time, how are the ppl who updated finding 11.10? im thinking of triple booting
<RichTUK> Mint*
<sammmm> heyyy
<sammmm> Ubuntu 11.10 is out yayayayyayayay :D
<sammmm> Downloading now :D
<bkerensa> Ubuntu Ocelot Release Google+ Hangout - [Live] http://j.mp/qzpYDB
<sammmm> Anyone out tonight in Swansea?
<imexil> Morning, so I'm still struggeling with synaptic not running under 11.10. Found out it's related to a segfault in /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so only I can't find out which package is providing that file.
<imexil> Anyone a tip on how to search for the package with the help of apt-get (there is a reason why I want to use synaptic you see  since I'm NOT blessed with apt-get foo ;) )
<AlanBell> dpkg -S /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so
<imexil> thanks AlanBell
<imexil> strange that http://packages.ubuntu.com can't find it though
<imexil> I mean the file not libc6
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all. Any sore heads this morning?
 * AlanBell is fineish
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<dwatkins> hi folks
<Pendulum> hi dwatkins
<DJones> Morning all
<danfish> morning - how'd the release partay go?
 * BigRedS is sure he spent more time in a tube tunnel than in the pub last night...
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 20th October 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | YES it is out!
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I think http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1206051 is my problem
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> Pendulum: ok, so you need to run fsck on the drive of the virtual machine
<Pendulum> yeah
<AlanBell> did it say the drive was read only?
<AlanBell> sudo touch /forcefsck  <- try that
<AlanBell> it will either work, and do the fsck after a reboot, or tell you the drive is read only
<Pendulum> it did the fsck after reboot, but has not fixed issue
<Pendulum> I'm going to try recovery mode on a live cd next
<MartijnVdS> Coworker had the NVidia driver enabled (and Unity) in 11.04, then upgraded to 11.10 and during the upgrade Unity became unresponsive
<MartijnVdS> That's unfixable, because the NVidia driver breaks text-consoles as well :|
<Pendulum> ugh
<Pendulum> at least this isn't an upgrade bug
<Pendulum> it's probably a "my laptop hates me" bug ;)
<Pendulum> (have ubuntu in VM on MacOS, laptop neglected to tell me it was running out of power and just shut down, ever since I turned it back on, it  just gives me a black screen part way through booting Ubuntu. I'm guessing it's because the Ubuntu instance shut down "incorrectly")
<AlanBell> Pendulum: might be something in /var/log/xorg.0.log
<DJones> Has anybody looked at or bought one of these http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/14/whsmith_signs_kobo_to_battle_amazon_kindle/ Just wondering how it compares with teh kindle, seems to have one major benefit in letting you use epub files
<gord> DJones, is that really a major benefit? at least, never found it a hindrance
<DJones> gord: Most of my ebooks are in epub format
<gord> DJones, calibre :) it manages your ebooks and auto converts to whatever your device needs
<gord> the touch screen on that thing looks interesting, but you'd really have to have a play with it to know if you like it i think
<DJones> gord: I know, I use it to convert anything I get to epub to read on my phone up to now, but converting a 1000 or so books to a kindle format could be a bit time consuming if I bought one of them
<gord> DJones, well, thats the fun part, not really. it knows what format the kindle require, so you just tell it to put the books on your kindle and does everything for you
<Pendulum> AlanBell: any idea what I might be looking for?
<DJones> gord: Right, didn't realise that
<gord> yeah, calibre is a life saver :)
<AlanBell> Pendulum: something that looks errorish
<AlanBell> possibly near the end
<Pendulum> no errors near the end
<czajkowski> aloha
<Pendulum> the only error I'm finding that doesn't immediately have a line of "disregard error" after it is  "/dev/fb0: no such file or directory", but I'm not sure what the connection is since searching seems to mostly give me that error once people are actually running programs
<andyc> I thought gnome classic was going to be removed from ubuntu 11.10?
<AlanBell> andyc: it isn't on the disk
<andyc> I take it back it's jus tin the list of window managers for some reason
<andyc> Maybe because I installed gnome-shell
<AlanBell> yup, that would probably do it
<Pendulum> AlanBell: was that aimed at me?
<AlanBell> Pendulum: no, at andyc
<Pendulum> okay, didn't think so, but was checking
<AlanBell> Pendulum: /dev/fb0 is the framebuffer, not sure why it would be missing, or what to do  :(
<AlanBell> popey: might know
<MartijnVdS> maybe it shut down in the middle of a kernel upgrade and the initrd is broken?
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: wasn't upgrading anything. Only even had irssi and firefox open
<JamesTait> Happy morning after, everyone! It's Friday! :D
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: weird!
<kazade> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<smittix> GB mirrors still going slow?
<jamespage> smittix: thats what I see at the moment
<smittix> jamespage: :/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: o/
<fr-z> morning. has anyone made the upgrade from ubuntustudio to 11.10?
<bigcalm> Yes, mostly works well so far
<bigcalm> (on my laptop)
<bigcalm> Though the Archive Manager wants to open everything
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<bigcalm> Having to set up the default apps for different file types is irritating
<bigcalm> Also, dropbox needs to be updated from the CLI as root, otherwise the GUI will just sit there and do nothing.
<fr-z> bigcalm but wasnt the gnome 2 removed? if so, like it was expected, what do they use now?
 * oimon eating a biscuit made by my 20 month old toddler. not bad. he made me a nice beef casserol the other day too
<bigcalm> fr-z: yes, gnome 2 is no more. The default is now Unity
<bigcalm> Takes some getting used to. I'm giving this new version a month
<fr-z> but thats ubuntu not studio
<fr-z> "Ubuntu Studio does not currently use Unity as it is transitioning to XFCE. "
<bigcalm> The thing that put me off the most about Unity is that everything is full screen by default. Un-maximising is the way forward
<bigcalm> I'm sorry, I miss-read your initial line
<ali1234> everything is not fullscreen by default on desktop
<awilkins> Blurrgh, who set the default fixed-width font in Oneiric to "large and ugly"
<gord> bigcalm, ali1234 everything is fullscreen by default, *if* unity thinks you are on a netbook
<gord> which is generally a machine that has a vertical resolution < 700 or so
<awilkins> And who stole the font config panelâ½
<ali1234> gnome
<ali1234> install gnome-tweak-tool
<MartijnVdS> but that installs all of Gnome 3
<gord> looks like they are bringing it back for the next gnome version though, hopefully
 * awilkins bangs ctrl-c
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: open a packaging bug then
<gord> its not a packaging bug, tweak-tool relies on shell, it brings in shell which brings in a bunch more stuff
<ali1234> why does it rely on shell?
<AlanBell> good use of the interrobang awilkins :)
<ali1234> it doesn't rely on it to run
<gord> for the shell extensions part iirc
<awilkins> AlanBell, Why thank you, I saw it on QI and decided it needed a resurgence
<ali1234> the shell extensions part is empty...
<gord> yeah you'd have to install some
<gord> i don't know how
<ali1234> i don't even use gnome shell
<awilkins> What are GNOME smoking... we get an "online accounts" tool that ... doesn't integrate chat, mail, or anything else when you configure it. And they take away the font config panel.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: For the greater good!
<awilkins> The greater good of people who enjoy being driven cross-eyed by their terminal, maybe...
<awilkins> What is that font anyway, Ubuntu?
<awilkins> The u and n say yes
<gord> well technically you should be able to change the font in the terminal app too
<BigRedS> awilkins: remember the heyday of gnome 2 when you couldn't configure it?
<BigRedS> that's what Gnome3 is aiming for
<awilkins> gord, You can change the font in the terminal app, which is nice. But it rather defeats the point of having system-wide font config. And for some reason, XChat thinks the system terminal font is something other than the one being used in the terminal by default ..
<AlanBell> awilkins: it is the ubuntu mono font
<fr-z> i hope ubuntu studio with xfce goes well because unity and gnome 3 are a complete usability fail
<awilkins> AlanBell, Whoever decided that it was a good idea for the terminal font needs shooting.
 * AlanBell likes it
<awilkins> Should be forced to type all his press releases in a terminal using vim.
<AlanBell> but I reduce the size to 10
<bigcalm> Ubuntu Mono is the only font that anybody needs
<awilkins> And Ubuntu Mono
<gord> i'v been using ubuntu mono in my terminal for a long long time, its nice
<bigcalm> Same here
<bigcalm> And in anything I code with
<oimon> what's the font package name?
<awilkins> I suspect this is why it's called "Preferences", dammit.
 * awilkins changes the terminal to Liberation Mono 10 like it should be by default
<smittix> anyone have any remote desktop solutions for Ubuntu?
<awilkins> smittix, Clients or servers?
<smittix> Using the standard one a user has to login before it allows you
<smittix> Servers
<oimon> on-site users or far away?
<sdh> wow
<sdh> i thought i would hate the new version of ubuntu
<sdh> in fact i had already lined up mint
<sdh> but i love it
<smittix> oimon: both
<sdh> it looks amazing
<smittix> for a home server
<oimon> i use freenx cos it's so fast and allows suspend sessions etc
 * awilkins concurs with freenx
<awilkins> Or neatx perhaps (not tried it)
<smittix> Coolio, I will look them up
<awilkins> But if Google has something to do with it, it has half a chance of being decent
<awilkins> Or just learn to do things on the terminal and use SSH
<oimon> how can i get ubuntu monospace on lucid?
<bigcalm> Download the zip from http://font.ubuntu.com/
<bigcalm> Extract the files. Load each one and click 'install font' in the bottom right of the new window
<bigcalm> Or something like that :)
<smittix> awilkins: I use SSH already, It's just sometimes I need to download from a website with a login and can't seem to get wget to grab the files.
<awilkins> smittix, Ah, yes, I know that pain
<oimon> bigcalm: thanks. easy when you know how
<awilkins> smittix, You could try a CLI mode browser like elinks
<smittix> awilkins: Yeah I have tried Links already and the page just doesnt display
<DJones> smittix: Connecting from Ubuntu or Windows? For the rare occasions when I need to connect from windows, I just use TightVNC viewer which askes for login details
<awilkins> smittix, But yes, I've resorted to installing a desktop and an NX server to download files on servers before now
<awilkins> May a thousand fleas infest the underpants of people who implement file download servers that don't work without session cookies (I spit on you, CollabNet)
<smittix> heh
<bigcalm> smittix: filezilla for windows and linux.
<davmor2> morning all how was the party's?
<bigcalm> The party's what?
<awilkins> The party's release?
<smittix> trying to access a routers gui within ssh is a pain aswell
 * bigcalm notes a lack of popey. I wonder if he's nursing a hangover
<smittix> well web interface
<davmor2> bigcalm: there were 2 release party's one in London and one in leeds
<bigcalm> So, parties
 * bigcalm feels evil today
<shauno> if session cookies for downloads earn a thousand fleas, what does a java-based downloader earn you?
<smittix> death by fire
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah whatever
<bigcalm> :D
<oimon> i get "install failed" when i try to install the font :(
<bigcalm> Pass
<DJones> oimon: http://askubuntu.com/questions/5097/how-do-i-use-the-new-ubuntu-font-family-in-older-releases
<DJones> Maybe that has it
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I think you may be right: http://www.project-distribution.co.uk
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh  - wrong url.
<bigcalm> Eh?
<bigcalm> Oh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Try this one: https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/124778355080957952
<TheOpenSourcerer> ooops ;-)
<bigcalm> Ah, I have been avoiding twitter during work hours. Has made me a little more productive ;)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: you were missed last night
<BigRedS> czajkowski: well aim better, then
<czajkowski> BigRedS: well I didnt miss you :p
<popey> Afternoon!
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<AlanBell> o/ popey
 * popey has a hurty head
<smittix> self inflicted no sympathy
<bigcalm> GOOD MORNING POPEY!
 * popey dials down the brightness on the world
<popey> ugh, boss just asked if i wanted to go to the pub
<Pendulum> popey: good time at the party last night, then?
<popey> i have been here 8 minutes
<awilkins> Hair of the dog?
<bigcalm> Sounds like a smashing idea to me :)
<DJones> popey: You've already been in the pub for 8 minutes?
<popey> hah
<davmor2> popey: happy party?
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<popey> yes
<davmor2> popey: how's the head?  You actually went drinking with Jono do you have a death wish?
<popey> it was fun
<gord> hrm, really need to get an arduino then hook it up to a laser that knows when its beam has been broken, that then uses servos to move the position of the laser quickly. would keep the cat entertained for hours
<daubers> Morning
<ali1234> = blinded cat
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: I was at (hopefully) my son's next school's open evening.
<czajkowski> nods
<davmor2> AlanBell: hows your head not as bad as popey's I hope?
<AlanBell> I am OK
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you made the train then
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I came home to new headphones and an android tablet :D
<czajkowski> guess how happy I was after the day I had :D
<AlanBell> yes, got the bus with christel
<czajkowski> yay
<christel> awww
<czajkowski> I went home and played angry birds
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> and angry frogs and snakes
<czajkowski> jon had the tablet all set up for me :D
<czajkowski> it's so fast and nice
<czajkowski> LOVE IT
<bigcalm> Those are some funky headphones
<czajkowski> I <3 orange
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/702dzw
<bigcalm> Do you have a VAX vacuum cleaner?
<AlanBell> wow
<czajkowski> BigRedS: no we have a roomba
<czajkowski> the tablet is a advent vega
<BigRedS> czajkowski: that was for bigcalm :)
<czajkowski> confused.com
 * bigcalm tuts
<bigcalm> ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> wait, czajkowski, that's windows?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: at wor
<czajkowski> k
<BigRedS> tsk tsk
<BigRedS> actually, no, I'll just sympathise
 * popey hugs BigRedS 
<popey> now he has put 2 and 2 together and knows who BigRedS is
<jacobw> 4?
 * bigcalm still doesn't
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I was sure I'd explained before
<popey> â memory retention fail
<BigRedS> though, presumably, it was rather late and in a pub
<DJones> I thought BigRedS was a pseudonym for Santa Claus :)
<popey> BigRedS has nice hair
<popey> i aspire to have hair like him
<popey> he also has a good laugh
<BigRedS> ah yeah. I've been told off for it in campsites before :/
 * daubers just aspires to keep his hair :(
<BigRedS> "stop laughing, you're waking people up"
<daubers> A battle I'm seemingly loosing
 * DJones hands daubers a bic
<bigcalm> DJones: to colour in the bald bits?
<jacobw> lol
<czajkowski> there is no fear of BigRedS losing his hair
<DJones> bigcalm: Not the pen
<czajkowski> there is enough of his hair is to share with all of ye and still have a full head
<BigRedS> I should sell it
<DJones> Sounds like your describing RMS, lots of hair etc
<DJones> Or Anita Dobson :)
<popey> lol
<popey> i like the idea of Anita dobson running the FSF
<czajkowski> DJones: BigRedS is clean and doesnt pick at his hair and eat it
<czajkowski> so nothing like RMS
<popey> s/hair/feet/
<DJones> popey: With her boyfriend singing in the background "I want to break free" :)
<bigcalm> DJones: davmor2 is the one who breaks free
<davmor2> bigcalm: Never they'd have to catch me first before I'd need to break free MUhahahahaahahahahah
 * TheOpenSourcerer has been told off for snoring in campsites before ;-) ^^re: BigRedS ^^
<BigRedS> haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> I kept about a 500yd radius of my tent awake :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wifey was fine
<BigRedS> haha!
<popey> i am on windows atm, can someone on ubuntu help me pls?
<bigcalm> o.O
<brobostigon> my dad has been told of similerely, before.
<bigcalm> Is anybody in here using Ubuntu? ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Turn it off and insert an ubutu cd
<TheOpenSourcerer> then trun it back on
<DJones> popey: What do you need?
<bigcalm> Your clothes and your motorcycle
<DJones> TMI
<TheOpenSourcerer> Damn I need a wee. BBL
<popey> open gconf editor and look for the key relating to vnc
<popey> when you enable/disable vnc it flips a switch in gconf key somewhere
<popey> i cant remember which key
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: my dad now has a thing, to help him breathe properly, while asleep. and he no longer has such snoring problems.
<BigRedS> popey: http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/
<popey> BigRedS: funny man
<DJones> I'm on windows but I can ssh/vnc into a Lucid machine
<popey> need someone with a gui really
<BigRedS> Ah, I've got that vm I made for gpg
<BigRedS> hang on, I'll boot it
<davmor2> popey: on oneiric? there no gconf-editor ;)
<gord> dconf-editor - fun times
<irene> hej
<davmor2> popey: The program 'gconf-editor' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<davmor2> sudo apt-get install gconf-editor
<popey> why are you telling me this?
<BigRedS> popey: I've got it. What am I looking for? all I can see with anything to do with vnc is a vinagre directory/folder/thing
<popey> hmm
<BigRedS> is there a way to search it? There really should be but it's not obvious
<popey> yes
<popey> menu item âº
<BigRedS> i appear to have no menus
<BigRedS> hm
<AlanBell> is it the always-enable-listening key perhaps?
<AlanBell> in org.gnome.Vinagre (I am using Oneiric and dconf-editor)
<BigRedS> oh. ctrl-f
<DJones> Hmmh, server died, ah well, that'll keep me busy tonight
<popey> open the dash, search for remote
<popey> flip the 'allow remote access' tickbox
<popey> does the thing in dconf-editor change?
<bigcalm> popey: found it
<bigcalm> It's /desktop/gnome/remote_access/vnc_password
<popey> thats it
<bigcalm> Key is 'enabled'
 * popey points corenominal at the last 3 lines
<BigRedS> /desktop/remote/gnome/access has a 'enabled' which changes
<BigRedS> oh
 * bigcalm makes the connection and smiles
<bigcalm> Right, think I should get some lunch
<corenominal> popey, got it, thanks :)
<gord> hrm, the infernal decision. un-7z a large file on a network storage via the slow 100mbit ethernet cable but with the i7 machine. or ssh into the file server and un7zip slowly on the dual core atom but without the network overhead
<ali1234> 7z isn't that CPU intensive
<gord> i'm racing them
<gord> mostly IO limited on both
<BigRedS> haha, gord picks the slowest of three options :)
<gord> my IO is faster than my network speed, didn't really impact it :)
<gord> now reading the directory full of spectrum games, that is slow
<BigRedS> this firefox release schedule combined with their amusing bugs is hilarious
<BigRedS> Ive just closed four firefox instances, each running a different version so I can still use the right extensions and use the right websites...
<diplo> It's annoying me as well BigRedS
<diplo> Firebug
<diplo> for example, with newer releases of FF
<diplo> Need to stop breaking add ons with every upgrade
<BigRedS> yeah, and SSL cert handling just seems to get worse and worse.
<BigRedS> I'm not a web developer, I shouldn't need to run multiple versions of a browser...
<shauno> ff's versioning for addons really doesn't seem to be holding up well against this major-version-per-week deal
<BigRedS> No, I think they need to bring in some automated testing
<BigRedS> no add-on dev is going to test against every major version, and so they're not going to want to claim compatibility with them all
<BigRedS> It'd be cool if the add-on devs just all came to an agreement to designate LTSs that they'd support :)
<ali1234> add-on devs should just set compatibility to * and then blame ff devs when it breaks
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I'd do
<BigRedS> it's a moving target, nobody can be expected to program for it. The onus is on Mozilla to stop moving it, rather thanthe devs to follow
<ali1234> exactly
<gord> iirc mozilla are working on a stable API
<BigRedS> and the point of the rapid major releases is to have little difference between them. 95% of add-ons for version 8 should work in version 9 with no modification
<ali1234> even better, someone should fork firefox and make a simplified light version
<gord> a simplified light version that three people use ;)
<ali1234> and then have a 6 monthly release cycle for it
<BigRedS> I'd use it, but then bog it down with silly add-ons...
<gord> seriously, mozilla know about the problem, they are taking steps to fix it but its just not something you fix overnight
<ali1234> why not? they broke it overnight
<gord> this is not a new problem
<gord> its just one that is exacerbated by the new release schedule
<DJones> Hmmh, dead server, do I just put the hdd in a replacement machine to see if its hardware releated, or just build a new server & configure it
<smittix> talking of servers i need to get these drives to automount
<DJones> I think I'll just swap the drive into a replacement machine & see if it still crashes
<DJones> That'll give me time to do a clean install of its replacement anyway
<smittix> I should have just installed server edition instead of desktop
<DJones> This one occasionally gets used for web browsing etc, so it needs a desktop now and again
<DJones> Otherwise I'd put server on it
 * bigcalm returns and flops
<smittix> Oct 13 21:42:19 macbuntu sshd[3070]: Invalid user iain
<smittix> had to think who that was then heh
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> Have you changed your sshd port yet?
<smittix> no i will do it when i get home. So i can forward the ports on the router
 * bigcalm nods
<smittix> Installed fail2ban though
<bigcalm> You can have sshd listen on multiple ports. Let internal machines connect on 22, external connections on something else
<mgdm> having it on 443 is occasionally handy :-)
<bigcalm> If a little confusing at 1st
<smittix> I want to setup my domain smittix.co.uk with it too
<smittix> actually sack that idea
<smittix> decided to keep the mac though. found a space for it.
<Joeb454> mgdm: I have to have my machine at home on 443 so I can access it from work ;)
<bigcalm> I do like that joker.com allow you to set up dyn subdomains. Means I can use cuth.eu (nice and short) at no extra cost
<Darael> Having upgraded to Oneiric, my wifi card appears no longer to exist... even if I use an older kernel.  Any ideas what on earth might be going on?
<gord> i used to use things like dyndns, but could never find anything that worked well with it, routers would occasionally forget everything or dyndns would start threatening to lose the subdomain because i hadn't logged in for a while. so now i just have a static IP and the home subdomain of my domain point at it -_-
<smittix> 123 reg want me to pay 10 quid for a subdomain
<bigcalm> joker.com \o/
<mgdm> that's whyI run my own DNS
<gord> gandi just let you go crazy, log in, write a new subdomain, gets propagated in an hour or two
<mgdm> I can have as many subdomains as I like
<Darael> smittix: If thou canst use DNS of thy choosing with the domain, move thy DNS to someone who'll let thee manage it thyself - do it thyself, or I understand that hurricane electric do a free DNS service.
<smittix> mgdm: I have thought about doing that. But it'd be the first time i have done so on linux
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Onwards and Upwards - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/14/onwards-and-upwards/
<oimon> darael , which wifi card do you have?
<Darael> oimon: From memory, a Realtek RTL8191SE.  It doesn't even show in lspci any more, though, so I can't check.
<bigcalm> Live cd of 11.04?
<Darael> I could dig that out of wherever I put it...
<oimon> weird that it's not in lspci..have you enabled it via bios/function key/hardware switch?
<osiris_> Bah wrong session heh
<Darael> oimon: Tried the function-key, there's no bios setting or hardware switch.
<mgdm> There's a lot of Bluetooth hardware that just drops off the uSB bus when you use the hardware switch to turn it off
<mgdm> never seen it with wifi kit, though
<smittix> :/
 * smittix prods MooDoo 
 * smittix hides
<awilkins> Annoying things in Unity - alt-F2 is still there. But if you type faster than it resolves the command you typed, it picks the first thing showing in the history list. Grr.
<davmor2> awilkins: it doesn't for me and I'm not the worlds fastest typer, it only selects when I hit enter
<awilkins> davmor2, Hmm. I've had a couple of instances where I typed "eclipse" and it picked "bcompare" which was the previous thing I loaded
<awilkins> I mean "executed" rather than just "selected"
<davmor2> awilkins: if you check the history as it comes up mine shows everything that is selected and whittles it down as I type then I hit enter when the right one is first in the queue
<davmor2> or click on it in the list
<awilkins> Just tried again... entered "gvim" and quickly hit enter. It starts an eclipse instance, because that was what I ran previously. I'm sure I would have noticed this behaviour before, I've not suddenly become a fast typist.
<Darael> Many thanks to oimon and mgdm - I had a faint memory of having this before, and while the first few reboots didn't fix it, a shutdown-and-boot /did/ bring it back.
<oimon> weird. laptop or desktop?
<oimon> sounds like a soft disable setting was being remembered that wouldn't be enabled until power off
<Darael> oimon: laptop.  But the hardware key /normally/ doesn't remove it from lspci - it still shows up, but rfkill list shows it as hard blocked.
<oimon> wow, liberation monospace font sucks for @ symbol
<pepito> Greetings my fellow Ubuntu-ers!
<gord> it sucks at the î¿ symbol too
<andyc> Out of curiosity has anything serious changed re: library linking in ubuntu 11.10
<andyc> I'm trying to compile somethign using a makefile which worked fine yesterday and now it has all sorts of undefined reference errors
<pepito> being newly converted to Ubuntu, I am loving it, in many many many dimensions
<gord> andyc, if you upgraded, then the ABI will have broken for some libraries you use, you'll need to make clean first
<gord> pepito, great to hear! :)
<pepito> :)
<andyc> gord: It was a fresh install
<pepito> I just wish I knew what library sharing and ABI and makefiles were.  Then maybe I'd be useful here
<andyc> pkg-config seems to be finding the correct libs/locations but it still fails linking
<pepito> I have noticed a big difference in the fundamental principles that dictate the structural differences between windows and ubuntu
<pepito> which are mostly awe inspiring and liberating, but sometimes confusing
<pepito> thats a long way of saying, I have a question, can someone please help? :/
<oimon>  pepito, go ahead :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Congrats czajkowski
<pepito> I am wondering about what used to be called "shortcuts" in windows....
<awilkins> pepito, Sure but no need to ask, to ask  ---->  http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html  :-)
<awilkins> pepito, Are we talking about desktop shortcuts, or file system links?
<awilkins> pepito, Something to click on, or something to truly lead somewhere else?
<pepito> aha!  see, I just got smarter already!  thanks awilkins....
<pepito> I am talking about my files are buried about six clicks deep, on my external drive, and in windows I just
<pepito> clicked on a desktop shortcut, but now I have to click my way in every time I open a file
<TheOpenSourcerer> In Linux/Posix systems shortcuts are termed links. Normally symbolic
<ali1234> shortcuts are a lot closer to .desktop files
<diplo> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1534517991.png  <-- My work connection today :(
<ali1234> NT has it's own symbolic link system, which is buried deep in the command line
<awilkins> pepito, From the file explorer (nautilus) you can find "make link" in the right click menu
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: on what?
<TheOpenSourcerer> pepito: I don't know how to do it from the GUI but from the terminal you can create a link quite easily
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Council
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_234037fcede80bac
<awilkins> pepito, This makes what's called a "soft link" - like Windows it's a file that points to another place, but it's a bit more integrated ; apps don't have to understand them to open them
<ali1234> pepito: you drag the file while holding down ALT then select "link here"
<pepito> "the terminal" is that bit that you are never ever supposed to mess with, right between turning on the PC and the OS powering up, right?
<ali1234> pepito: don't mess about with symbolic links and the terminal
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's easy and fast :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> cd Desktop
<TheOpenSourcerer> ls -s path/to.my/dir
<TheOpenSourcerer> done
<ali1234> wrong
<awilkins> pepito, The terminal / shell is the thing that makes Linux much more powerful and "flow-ish" than Windows for many power users
<ali1234> you have commited a typo
<oimon> that's a point, does nautilus have "favourite folders" anymore? on lucid , i drag common folders onto theleft pane - doesn't seem possible in 11.10?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: oh wow
<czajkowski> hah
<pepito> seriously, I feel like an infant in the world of using my own PC all of a sudden
<awilkins> oimon, It still works, your left pane set to places, drag folder to "Bookmarks" section
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: Works for me :-)
<pepito> which is a good thing, I know it opens up a world of freedom, but where Microsoft did all my thinking for me I now have to actualy know stuff
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: no it doesn't. read what you typed again, except slower this time
<czajkowski> kinda lost for words now
<oimon> awilkins: can u explain?
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK missed the trailing slash
<DJones> czajkowski, The words you're looking for are "Oh bugger, what have I let myself in for"
<awilkins> oimon : what's your sidebar set to, tree or places?
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: nope, try again
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK I actually did the following:
<oimon> awilkins: places
<TheOpenSourcerer> ls -s ~/link/to/my.dir/
<oimon> cannot drag a folder onto the leftbar in oneiric though
<TheOpenSourcerer> ln -s
<awilkins> oimon, I see : Devices, Bookmarks, Computer, Network. Dragging a folder to Bookmarks makes it a bookmark
<TheOpenSourcerer> bah
<pepito> awilkins: I am looking for what you called the file explorer.  please excuse my absolute ignorance, I really am brand new to this... is that the small grey magnifying glass in my launcher?
<oimon> i see Computer/Netowrk
<awilkins> pepito, I usually start it up with the "Orange house folder" icon ( /home is where all user "home" folders are kept"
<awilkins> pepito, The application itself is called nautilus, it's the standard GNOME graphical file explorer - the counterpart to explorer.exe in Windows
<ali1234> pepito: what version of ubuntu are you using?
<pepito> natty narwhale
<Darael> awilkins: Except that it's not quite as tied into the guts of the system as explorer.exe - notably, if it crashes, the rest of the desktop keeps working.
<ali1234> Darael: not all of it
<ali1234> desktop icons are a nautilus instance, just like on windows
<awilkins> Darael, You  can restart explorer.exe if you start a task manager from alt-ctrl-del and Run it ... (but this isn't a Windows help channel :) )
<Darael> ali1234: True.  But at least it doesn't kill the panels, as explorer.exe mucks up the taskbar.
<Darael> awilkins: Oh, I'm aware of that.
<awilkins> Anyway, back to nautilus
<oimon> awilkins: you are on 11.10 unity?
<oimon> nautilus 3.20?
<awilkins> oimon : maybe your bookmarks are empty and if you add one with ctrl-D the section will appear
<pepito> I believe that is correct, yes
<awilkins> oimon, Yes, Oneiric  / 11.10 / 3.2.0
<pepito> I just installed it a week ago, after I got fed up with Microsoft
<pepito> it was the most recent version
<oimon> i can also close/crash nautilus by right clicking on the sidebar and choosing open when on blank space
<ali1234> lol, confirmed
<awilkins> oimon, Mine doesn't seem to have that behaviour
<pepito> okay I just discovered I can toggle between different types of displays in the LH window of the file explorer, including the "tree"
<ali1234> um. how?
<pepito> which makes it a little quicker to scroll down and find my files
<oimon> awilkins: weird, cannot add a bookmark in unity3d
<oimon> maybe a fresh install is required :-\
<ali1234> oh, i got it
<pepito> there is a drop down menu right above it that says places...
<pepito> yeah that one
<ali1234> well that's gone in oneiric
<ali1234> you have to use the menu
<awilkins> pepito, Yeah, you came to the party a week late and installed the previous release version... never mind, natty is pretty stable and still very good
<awilkins> I'm still running Maverick on my work machine (for the moment)
<pepito> awwwww bunk.  :)
<pepito> oh well, I am still happier than a fly on a cowpie
<awilkins> I'll work out the kinks at home then install Oneiric on it
<davmor2> oimon: I can if that helps and this is a fresh install
<awilkins> oimon, I do fresh installs... you could try removing your .gnome2 folder (or wherever Unity keeps its prefs)
<pepito> hey this emblems feature for marking documents is pretty nifty
<awilkins> oimon, I move my old home folder and then move back any files I want to keep. (home on a different partition to root)
<oimon> awilkins: trying with a fresh user
<oimon> hmm either 11.10 is extremely buggy or i have a ropey install
<oimon> gonna try a fresh one!
<oimon> pepito: http://ubuntu-manual.org/ has a user manual for the 10.10 version from last year, although many ubuntu "concepts" are the same
<awilkins> oimon, I've noticed a couple of desktop crashes so far but things have startup up again (I am on the post-release nvidia driver which may, I suppose, be less stable)
<pepito> thanks for the tip
<awilkins> oimon, It's been stable for hours though, only crashed when attempting things like resolution changes to cover both widescreen monitors
<awilkins> Which is now working fine
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tonight I will be mainly eating raw DorsetÂ #NagaÂ chillies in a pub with a mate who thinks he's hard for a bet. ;-)
<awilkins> Yipe
<awilkins> Are you an experienced capsaicin extremist or are you just mad?
<Guest6129> does anyone use Xchat? I would like to know where i can add my auto identify command
<diplo> Yep i use it
<awilkins> Guest6129, It's in the properties for the server you joined ; the default one is Ubuntu Server, not Freenode (despite appearances...)
<oimon> i read about the madman on reddit who wanted to stick a very hot chilli up his botty
<diplo> pfft awilkins beat me to it
<oimon> this PC has Ubuntu 11.10 on it, would you like to Upgrade 11.10 to 11.10?
<Guest6129> diplo where do i set the command?
<diplo> So you have network list open and then edit/properties of the server you are on
<diplo> option saying NickServ Password
<brobostigon> what is the software pad.ubuntu-uk.org uses ?
<ali1234> etherpad
<brobostigon> thank you ali1234
<oimon> been having problems with my etherpad lite install :(
<oimon> not retrieving existing pads until etherpad+apache restart :-\
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> i hear congrats are in order czajkowski
<zleap> hi
<zleap> where do i get the md5 sum file thing from so i can check 11.10 was downloaded properly
<popey> !md5sums
<lubotu3> See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes for the md5sums of Ubuntu discs.
<zleap> thanks
<popey> which doesnt have 11.10
<oimon> lolz
<zleap> great
<awilkins> THere's usually a MD5SUMS and SHA1SUMS file inthe same download folder
<popey> http://releases.ubuntu.com/11.10/MD5SUMS
<zleap> i was looking for a direct link to that page but was unable to find it
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i thought there was something strange when the file size was 610mb
<zleap> that was from the main ubuntu download page thing
<zleap> popey: thanks
<oimon> guys, i just reinstalled 11.10 to check the bookmark thing FAIL again
<awilkins> zleap ; you could "repair" it with bittorrent
<oimon> can anyone reproduce? open Home folder from launcher, go to menu and choose Add Bookmark
<oimon> nothing happens
<zleap> awilkins: not sure how to do that,
<awilkins> zleap, start the torrent, stop it again, swap out the file for the partial download
<zleap> i will download again
<GirlyGirl> zleap: zsynch will be easy to repair an iso
<GirlyGirl> edit zsync
<AlanBell> oimon: by design I think
<AlanBell> it is a kind of standing bookmark
<zleap> as i don't have any torrent software
<awilkins> oimon, Pick another folder and try to bookmark that
<zleap> zsync isn't installed this is my 2nd pc with the cd burner and 10.10 installed
<awilkins> zleap, What are you running? Windows? uTorrent will be sufficient and it's about 300KB as I recall
<zleap> ubuntu 10.10
<oimon> awilkins: AHHH..you have to be inside the folder to bookmark it
<AlanBell> zleap: should have transmission installed then
<awilkins> zleap, Ubuntu has a torrent client in the default packages
<zleap> yeah
<oimon> and you cannot drag anything to bookmarks unti lyou have done that for the first time
<oimon> arghgghh
<zleap> i am downloading its only going to take a few mns anyway
<awilkins> zleap, A nice fat pipe, the other solution to downloading files...
<zleap> yeah
<oimon> ok , this is a real bug. open nautilus and right mouse on the grey area of the sidebar..choose open in new tab: closes nautilus
<oimon> anyone reproduce?
<awilkins> I had a few tries, not so far
<oimon> happens on unity2d and 3d for me
<zleap> brasero now crashes when i try and copy a cd
<popey> oimon: did you do a clean install?
<AlanBell> oimon: opens a new window for me
<gord> opens a new tab for me?
<AlanBell> oh, that time it did open a new tab, then tried again and it all crashed
<AlanBell> fairly even mix of new tab and crash now
<oimon> within 10 mins of install i got a unity crash too :(
<oimon> plus a software center bug
<popey> yay
<gord> fyi, testing is great. but generally you want to do it before release
<oimon> been too busy to check the beta for last few weeks
<oimon> been running for 3 months
<oimon> irl got in way
<popey> UNACCEPTABLE ANSWER!
<ali1234> does software centre still crash if you try to submit reviews?
<gord> i still find it slightly magical that i can eject my cd tray without touching it
<ali1234> welcome to 1998
<MooDoo> next you'll be saying your computer will be one day able to boot in under 10 seconds....
<gord> my ubuntu does :)
<gord> not the bios to ubuntu bit though
<ali1234> i'm thinking of buying a blu ray burner
<MooDoo> gord: i was being sarky ;)
<ali1234> do they... "work" in linux?
<MooDoo> not even upgraded to the new ubuntu yet, might do it tonight
<gord> what do you want to burn?
<MooDoo> burn the witch
<gord> files i think should work, not video
<MooDoo> sorry python mode again
<Darael> MooDoo: Does she weigh the same as a duck?
<popey> gord: havee you got an efika mx smartbook>
<popey> ?
<diplo> I'd like a Bluray player as well ali1234
<gord> popey, never even heard of that
<diplo> Let me know if you do get one how well it works
<popey> arm laptop
<diplo> I want to start ripping my Blurays
<gord> ah no, i have an ac100
<popey>  i.MX515
<davmor2> ali1234: that was an old fault got faixed ages ago
<Hippychick> how is blu ray support in ubuntu, ive been trying to pursade oly to get a bluray drive for the server so we can play films on there and share the drive with the eeep in the kitchen
<ali1234> davmor2: well either it broke again recently or your idea of "ages ago" is rather short
<davmor2> I just want my audio to work right with skype/voip/mumble
<MooDoo> Darael: hehe ;)
<davmor2> ali1234: If you were on oneiric it was a completely different bug some code was missing it got fix as soon as I tested it and it failed so 2-3 weeks ago
<swat_> what does a bug mean if it is 'triaged'?
<ali1234> swat_: it means that the bug has all the necessary information that you need to give, but nobody cares enough to fix it
 * BigRedS plays spot the cynic :)
<ali1234> it will likely stay that way until about 2 years has passed, then it will be closed because that version is no longer supported
<swat_> ali1234: sounds a bit negative :)
<ali1234> not at all
<ali1234> you are lucky to even get that far
<ali1234> 90% of my bugs are still at confirmed
<BigRedS> yeah, one downside of it being so easy to file bugs on launchpad is that the vast majority of bugs never get fixed
<oimon> how do you find openssh-server in software centre?
<BigRedS> search for ssh?
<oimon> try it
<oimon> also try openssh-server
 * diplo has never tried
<diplo> always command line
<oimon> why doesn't software centre show the right package?
<AlanBell> search for ssh
<AlanBell> first option is secure shell client and server (metapackage)
<oimon> AlanBell: sort by name, relevance, ?
<gord> generally if its a command line thing, you want to use apt
<AlanBell> relevance
<gord> software centre is mostly for things that have .desktop files
<oimon> AlanBell: not there.
<AlanBell> ah, maybe becuase I have it installed
<AlanBell> see the link at the bottom "show 196 technical items"
<oimon> ah LOL
<oimon> AlanBell: hmm don't get that either
<oimon> i have no explanation for what happened, except that software center hung for a few minutes and now shows ssh and the technical items bit
<oimon> must be a repo problem
<Darael> Since I upgraded to Oneiric, all buttons and dropdowns in the various config boxes are unreadable unless currently selected - white text on a very-light-grey background - in Ambiance, Radiance, /and/ Adwaita.  Any ideas how I can get those elements looking as they ought to?  I've tried gnome-tweak-tool, and changing the GTK+ theme to Greybird solves it but causes /other/ elements to look out-of-place.
<livingdaylight> Hey, ubuntu 11.10 is available
<livingdaylight> just got an ivnite to upgrade
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: welcome to the party :) lol
<livingdaylight> I think I'm a bit late to the party, no?
<livingdaylight> I expected release towards end of the month as per usual
<MooDoo> ah :)
<livingdaylight> Is there a good screencaptur app like Jing for windows in Ubuntu/Linux?
<gord> generally better to describe what you actually want rather than asking for a replacement for an app most of us prolly don't know about
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jeez - The toolbar has gone from Nautilus... Have to use the menu (at the top of the screen!) to change the left column view...
<livingdaylight> trying shutter, but it doesn't seem to provide a link I can copy /paste and share the screenshot with
<oimon> reported bug 874321 with video
<TheOpenSourcerer> AND half the dialogues are too bloody long to fit on my netbook screen. Just like Evolution all over again.
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 874321 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Nautilus closes after choosing open in new tab from sidebar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874321
<livingdaylight> god: i'd like an app that does what Jing does or other similar screencapture apps
<livingdaylight> clip2net is close but rough on the edges
<TheOpenSourcerer> And you can't change main panel display without using the menu either. Sorry this sucks quite a lot.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Elected to the Ubuntu Community Council - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/10/14/elected-to-the-ubuntu-community-council/
<brobostigon> mr fox, has just resigned.
<oimon> there was a fox hunt going on after all
<brobostigon> quite.
<oimon> as if the papers "knew" a back-story  but weren't reporting it
<oimon> barely hidden between the lines of the articles
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - I thought he might have managed to hang on.
<oimon> anyone else still getting text corruption? i think it's particular to my vga card http://i.imgur.com/pDEIP.png
<ali1234> oimon: don't get that here
<ali1234> i got stuff like that with natty but not any more
<oimon> i can't find a list of bugs in launchpad i've said "me too" on
<ali1234> oimon: there is one ut it is under development... 1 sec
<oimon> affecting bugs?
<ali1234> yeah
<oimon> get an error page :(
<ali1234> when/if that starts working i have a patched update-manager that tells you if any of the updates fix bugs that affect you :)
<oimon> i think ive managed to completely break ubuntu today
<oimon> ooh
<oimon> ali1234: smart
<ali1234> at the moment it only tells you if bugs you submitted were fixed
<ali1234> because that's all you can get with the API
<daubers> lo
<TheOpenSourcerer> wow - some big things coming out here: http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/213373/libreoffice-sees-new-platforms-more-users
<TheOpenSourcerer> The French government will be shifting 500,000 Windows users from  OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice. This will increase the installed base of  LibreOffice Windows users by five percent in a single migration.
<TheOpenSourcerer> RÃ©gion Ãle-de-France (the region where Paris resides and itself a  premium sponsor of the conference) will be distributing 800,000 USB keys  loaded with LibreOffice and a cloud plugin to that region's students.  Parisian students and their families will be getting heavy exposure to  the LibreOffice application.
<TheOpenSourcerer> On-line LibreOffice
<TheOpenSourcerer> Android and iOS ports
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer, Did you read the article about openoffice that just appeared on El Reg
<DJones> sorry, no it was on slashdot
<DJones> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/10/14/1531252/openoffice-is-dying-and-ibm-wont-help
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting DJones... It was going to take a *long* time to get it all ported into the Apache ways and the world is moving quite quickly.
<DJones> Stupid Windows tools, Windows 7 USB iso burner refuses to accept that an ubuntu 11.10 iso is a valid iso format
<ali1234> why should i care if OO.o dies?
<oimon> using ubuntu-bug to report a bug suggests i go to askubuntu?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the great thing about Open Source. It hasn't. Libre Office is it's offspring and competitor.
<ali1234> oimon: just click "i have been through tech support"
<oimon> ali1234: bit misleading i feel
<ali1234> oimon: it only happens on unity bugs
<oimon> ali1234: ah thanks
<ali1234> and perhaps a few other things
<ali1234> is this the graphical corruption?
<ali1234> cos if it is, you probably want to report it against the video driver anyway
<ali1234> maybe it only happens on video card drivers actually, i forget
<oimon> it only shows on unity windows. not sure if unity or intel
<ali1234> it's intel
<ali1234> video corruption is always down to the driver
<oimon> cool ta
<ali1234> intels drivers have gone pretty bad since i945 days
<gord> i only get corruption on my intel box 1/7 days now
<gord> much better than constantly all the time of 6 months ago
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer, I would have thougt their biggest problem now will be that they're not competing against a Â£xxx version of MS Office, they're also competing against LibreOffice and MS Office, If people have seen that a lot of the development has moved to LibreOffice, that's another battle for them to fight against
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's also that the traditional Office Desktop Suite is becoming rather "old hat".
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't use OOo/Libre very much at all.
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: what do you use? cloud stuffs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Email, Twitter and stuff like Google Docs.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Occasionally I need to use it but not that often.
<DJones> Is google docs free to use?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Spreadsheets probably more than word processor docs.
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: I haven't paid anything to use it
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have a shed load of docs up there now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's very handy when working on projects with customers
<DJones> Right, I might give it a look anyway next time I have to do any documents, maybe once a month I need to do something word processed
<mgdm> I'd like google docs more if it would let me mark things as headers, rahter than just changing the fonts
<TheOpenSourcerer> mgdm: Yeah - it isn't perfect by any means.
<mgdm> I want more semantics, rather than just making it bold
<popey> minecraft on my intel box is painful.
<mgdm> Personally I think Markdown's where it's at :)
<popey> graphical corruption which gets worse
<TheOpenSourcerer> We use it to prepare materials then might import into OOo for final "presentation work"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh man oh man. 18TB hard drives... http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/researchers-increase-hard-drive-density-sixfold-with-salt.ars?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+Featured+Content%29&utm_content=Google+UK
<TheOpenSourcerer> 3.3Tb per Sq In. :-D
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: wow
<Monsterwizard> http://theoatmeal.com/blog/fix_computer
<ali1234> "learn to code in java" :|
<andyc> In unity when I alt+tab, should a window come up showing me which windows I'm scrolling through?
<ali1234> sort of yeah
<andyc> I dont get one and I have to guess when to stop :/
<ali1234> you should see something, put it that way
<andyc> That's a negative
<andyc> Can I configure it in compizconfigsettingmanager?
<andyc> I haven't used unity before - I think I prefer it to gnome shell but it's a bit buggier
<andyc> Also I don't know whether this is unities fault but user switching since updating to 11.10 has locked up my machine pretty much every time I've tried it
<andyc> Unity's***
<Monsterwizard> ali1234 I'm learning to code in Java D:
<ali1234> user switching has never worked properly
<popey> andyc: in a terminal issue a "unity --reset"
<ali1234> not in ubuntu, not in windows...
<popey> see if it fixes your alt-tab
<ali1234> maybe in OS X but i never tried it
<popey> user switching in osx works well
<popey> the mac in our kitchen is pretty much always logged on as me, wife, and both kids
<andyc> popey, That did it - thanks!
<popey> np
<ujjain> Is there an English expression that means: putting the finger on the weak spot?
<popey> ujjain: context?
<ujjain> popey: This has nothing to do with ungratefulness, but the team should not be affraid to point the finger at the weak spot?
<popey> like a whistleblower?
<ujjain> right. It's a complaint.
<popey> my brain is too muddy to think of an appropriate phrase, sorry
<ujjain> no problem :)
<popey> i suspect ali1234  or AlanBell can help :D
<ujjain> hehe, it's alright :) I don't have to have perfect wording every time I guess.
<popey> do you work as a translator?
<popey> I am sure I must have asked that before
<ujjain> You have not asked it before. I do not, I like languages and want to improve my English, but do not know how.
<popey> Laney is also good.
<Laney> so i've heard
<ujjain> I have responded, I hope 'pointing the finger at the weak spot' makes sense hehe.
<popey> it does to me
<ujjain> Great. :)
<Laney> silly freenode
<daubers> Evening
<daubers> Anyone fancy buying me a robot chassis?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] KDE is 15, Kubuntu is 11.10 - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4490
<andyc> daubers, What sort of robot
<andyc> ?
<andyc> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1331949/George-foot-robot-comes-life-45-years-stored-inventors-garage.html
<andyc> This one doesn't look to hard to put together
<daubers> andyc: I want to play with a robot to map out a room :) So just a little thing on wheels. I'm currently being very tempted by this http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10336
<andyc> Stick an arduino on it or something?
<daubers> Yeah, pretty much
<daubers> Was thinking of grabbing the new ARM based arduino when the boards are available
<andyc> I didn't know they were making an ARM version
<andyc> ARM have just got absolutely huge over the last few years
<andyc> Everythign is ARM
<daubers> Arduino DUE I think is the arm one
<daubers> 32bit Cortex-M3
<andyc> Quite a lot more powerful than my arduino :)
<daubers> :)
<daubers> I want to do the mapping with vectors, so I think the extra clock speed will make life easier
<daubers> http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6167088135_1270e2ff44_b.jpg <- The new arduino range
<andyc> Yeah plus there isn't much RAM to play with on current arduinos
<daubers> Yeah, I've seen a lot of guides on how to attach more SRAM to the mega
<daubers> (or was it DRAMâ¦ one of the two)
<ali1234> daubers: that's not a robot, this is a robot: http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/hi-res/ch3r01.jpg
<daubers> ali1234: I'm trying to map a room, not invade the Earth
<ali1234> um
<MartijnVdS> daubers: that's what you tell other people, but we know better!
<ali1234> just map it then? like, by hand?
<daubers> ali1234: It's a stepping stone to something else. I want the little bot to wander around and make a vector map of the room it's in
<MartijnVdS> daubers: surveying before taking over the world?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: smart strategy :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Nah, just surveying on where to hide the bodies :)
 * MartijnVdS now has a smiley in his prompt
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/lbu5f/whats_your_ps1/c2rfh13
<ali1234> daubers: wheeled/tracked robots are a bit bad at dead reckoning
<daubers> ali1234: because of the encoders in the wheels?
<ali1234> no, because the wheels tend to slip a lot
<ali1234> so you know how far the wheels have rotated perfectly
<ali1234> but not how far the robot moved
 * daubers was going with the wheel encoders + magnetometer + ultrasound sensor philosophy
<ali1234> also that sparkfun thing looks ok but... tamiya have a much nicer one
<ali1234> and i think sparkfun sells it
<daubers> ali1234: I'd rather start with wheels, easier to control and I'm more interested in the mapping algorythm
<daubers> stuff at the moment
<ali1234> wheels is a bit of a dead end though
<daubers> Could always do something optical under the body to detect movement and see if it's slipping or not
<ali1234> pretty much nothing you can do with them translates into bipeds/hexapods
<daubers> or, later down the line move to a hovercraft :)
<ali1234> you can do what a optical mouse does
<ali1234> that works quite well
<ali1234> you need two sensors though, or a camera
<daubers> isn't that some kind of laser interferometry?
<ali1234> because mice don't understand rotation
<ali1234> no, an optical mouse is just a camera
<ali1234> someone hacked one to be a scanner
<ali1234> then it just compares last two frames and calculates the movement
<ali1234> a raspberry pi would be perfect for this
<ali1234> just rip apart two mice and stick them under the robot
<ali1234> plug them on usb of course
<daubers> yeah, could do
<ali1234> you can't do that with an arduino
<ali1234> you have to write your own chip controller
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_rangefinder
<ali1234> http://spritesmods.com/?art=mouseeye
<daubers> All I really need to do is just attach an optical mouse to it and ask the mouse to detect movement. Shouldn't really need to do the rest of the processing myself
<ali1234> yeah if you go with a usb capable ontroller
<ali1234> you need two mice though
<daubers> http://www.martijnthe.nl/2009/07/interfacing-an-optical-mouse-sensor-to-your-arduino/
<awilkins> Anyone know where the desktop background setting is stored?
<awilkins> I've tried committing .config and .gconf to version control and inspecting what changes when you change the background but I've not found it yet
<daubers> it's in gconf-settings somewhere isn't it?
<awilkins> daubers, Not if you believe the content of the files... lots of darkness, type, palette information
<daubers> I thought you had to run some tool to get to that information?
<awilkins> daubers, it's all stored in XML files, isn't it?
<awilkins> Except I can't find the wallpaper settings
<daubers> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-244297.html
<daubers> (I think)
<awilkins> it says "file:///usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png"
<daubers> :)
<awilkins> Which is obviously a total lie
<daubers> Is it?
<awilkins> It's the Ocelot
<daubers> I'd open that file and have a lookâ¦. the filename might be wrong
<awilkins> And it doesn't change when you change the setting - I've got this folder in Bazaar and I can see everything that changed
<daubers> http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/gconf-9.html.en <- suggests the setting is /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename
<awilkins> That's the setting stored in that file
<awilkins> It's kind of like the registry, only not an evil great bit BLOB database
<daubers> Yeah, I suppose it assumes you're using some kind of gnome type wm?
<awilkins> The mtime on that element says it's not been changed recently
<awilkins> There are other settings in gconf that change when you change the theme / wallpaper but not this one
<awilkins> Arrgh.
<Darael> WRT the erlier comment about warty-final-ubuntu.png: my memory, if it helps, is that every release-wallpaper has been warty-final-ubuntu.png - this annoyed me, faintly.
<awilkins> It's the purple plasma thing
<daubers> awilkins: Change it with gconftool-2 and see if the bg changes?
<ali1234> /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png is correct
<awilkins> ali1234, What, even if I have the Ocelot wallpaper selected?
<ali1234> what is the ocelot wallpaper?
<ali1234> is it a picture of an ocelot?
<awilkins> Stalking_Ocelot_by_Sayantan_Chaudhuri.jpg
<awilkins> It's kind of a Retro Tron Ocelot
<ali1234> ah yeah
<awilkins> An Ocelot from Darwinia
<ali1234> dunno then
<ali1234> why do you even want to know?
<awilkins> Trying to work out how to change all the wallpaper using Puppet
<ali1234> i would politely suggest that bzr sucks and probably just missed the change
<ali1234> and you should use git instead
<awilkins> bzr doesn't suck
<ali1234> yeah it does
<awilkins> I've used it since it's zero-point-something versions... it's different to git but I wouldn't characterise it as sucking
<daubers> awilkins: Do you know the name of the program that changes the wallpaper?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [James Tait] Whats in a name? - http://voices.canonical.com/james.tait/2011/10/14/whats-in-a-name/
<awilkins> It's whatever the Appearance settings panel is
<ali1234> gnome-control-panel
<awilkins> Nope, not anymore
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> gnome-system-settings
<awilkins> gnome-control-center summons the top level of it
 * daubers would just go to the source
 * daubers goes to the indian for dinner
<ali1234> awilkins: it all goes over dbus: http://pastebin.com/HXppDeug
<ali1234> seems to touch both dconf and gconf
<ali1234> dconf being the "new" thing
<awilkins> dconf... that must be some kind of cloud thing
<awilkins> It's not in a folder called .dconf
<ali1234> it's probably in a nasty binary blob somewhere
<awilkins> Binary files dconf/user	2011-10-14 18:01:54 +0000 and dconf/user	2011-10-14 18:23:23 +0000 differ
 * awilkins passes them into a fancy binary file-compare-o-matic
<awilkins> Yup, that's where it is
<ali1234> heh
 * awilkins sees that this file is a serialized GVariant and remembers "Variant" from VB
 * awilkins shudders
<ali1234> remember when gconf came out and everyone said "lol, registry"
<ali1234> and they said "no, you can still edit the files"
<ali1234> but now that has been fixed with dconf
<awilkins> I even wrote a library with the same API as the registry calls for VB6 that used a tree of INI files to store the settings
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> how did that work out with ntfs filesystem limits?
<awilkins> Wasn't that bad, not too many settings
<awilkins> Not like I was trying to store the REAL registry in it
<awilkins> It was much easier to deploy apps with, it had global defaults and user overrides and everything, and you just copied the files to the profiles folders
<awilkins> Much like a lot of *nix apps that get ported to Windows
<awilkins> The thing that makes the registry look like a filesystem in Powershell is probably testament that you really want to be able to manage these things with tools as powerful as those for files
<awilkins> Ick, it's like an ouroboros of Ghandi - both MS and Unix are doomed to reinvent each other badly
<awilkins> So, the UI themes are still in gconf but the background has been moved to dconf
<awilkins> Lovely
<ali1234> you should have patched windows
<ali1234> and put the whole registry in it
<awilkins> As you note, NTFS would melt down
<ali1234> do it for the lulz
<awilkins> The registry is fricking HUGE and contains this enormous database of stuff about how everything works in Windows
<ali1234> i know
<awilkins> Imagine putting HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT in INI files
<ali1234> i know, lulzy right?
<awilkins> You'd start an app and your disk would thrash for a week
<awilkins> (ok, another week, this IS windows)
<ali1234> as if windows doesn't do that anyway
<awilkins> I'm getting a laptop refresh next week
<awilkins> It should be one of those great big HP Elitebooks like an aircraft carrier
<awilkins> A shame they are going to anchor it to bedrock with Windows, Antivirus, etc
<awilkins> If it has a second drive bay I'm shoving an SSD with Oneiric in it
<Monsterwizard> Ok I need to try and find these files but I thnk they don't exists anymore
<Monsterwizard> in fact they can't
<Monsterwizard> /etc/profile
<awilkins> That one will be gone
<awilkins> I presume you've installed?
<Monsterwizard> yes
<awilkins> Monsterwizard, If keeping files in /etc is important to you, maybe etckeeper would be helpful (never used it myself)
<Monsterwizard> ahh ok I look at that
<popey> Good evening everyone
<ross_> ok so I'm learning the terminal
<ross_> When I type ls -a at an empty folder
<ross_> it lists . and ..
<ross_> what are these?
<AlanBell> they are your current directory (.) and parent directory (..)
<AlanBell> so cd .. changes directory to the parent directory and goes up the hierachy
<ross_> AlanBell this resource is telling if I type ' cd.' would make you stay where you are in the directory
<ross_> but
<AlanBell> "cd ." would indeed do that (you need the space)
<ross_> oh :P thank you
<ross_> so cd . takes me back to my home folder
<popey> no
<popey> . is the current folder, whichever one you happen to be in
<popey> cd ~
<popey> that will take you "home"
<popey> the ~ is shorthand for home
<ross_> I see
<ross_> thank you popey
<popey> no problem
<ross_> command line gives me POWER!
<andyc> `cd` takes you home as well, and you can cd ~username to go to username's home folder
<ross_> The output of ls ~/.. is 'ross'
<ross_> does that show the users
<ross_> ?
<andyc> Thats the list of files in the folder above your home
<ross_> ahh
<andyc> .. is the directory above, . is the current directory
<andyc> hence if you do ls -a there will always be a . and a ..
<ross_> wait...I don't understand. Why would there always be a . and ..
<ross_> ?
<DJones> Phew, finally got my server up and running again, faulty power supply caused shutdown, take hdd out into chassis of another machine of the same model, beep, beep, beep, go away to think about it, realise that there's no memory in the machine...Doh!
<andyc> So you can do things like `cp * ..`
<andyc> to move all files to the directory above
<DJones> Now to build a new replacement server with sata drives & also rebuild a laptop for my father-in-law
<andyc> Or you could do `cp /mnt/disk/somefile .` to copy a file from somewhere to your current directory
<andyc> 20:21, I meant copy not move...
<ross_> hmm I'm trying to copy a file from my Documents folder into a folder in my home directory
<ross_> first  I typed cp ~/Documents/random.txt but it doesn't recognise the command
<andyc> you need a destination
<ross_> what's a destination?
<ross_> ohhhhh
<ross_> but wait
<andyc> `cp ~/Documents/random.txt ~/whereyouwanttoputthefile`
<ross_> ah
<AlanBell> ross_: this is what . is handy for :)
<ross_> See I thought because I was in ~/unixstuff it would copy anyway
<andyc> Yes - you don't need to type lots :)
<AlanBell> `cp ~/Documents/random.txt .` copies it to "here" wherever you may be
<ross_> :O oh cool
<andyc> Or if you are in ~/unixstuff, you could `cp ../Documents/random.txt .`
<ross_> because the . represents the current directory, correct?
<andyc> Yes
<ross_> and the .. reprents the home directory
<ross_> Difficult to grasp at first
<AlanBell> no, .. is just one above where you are
<andyc> And because you are in ~/unixstuff, the .. represents ~ (The folder above ~/Documents), so you can `cp ../Documents/random.xtx .` which means get the file random.txt from the directory Documents from the folder above and copy it in my current directory
<ross_> right so if I was in Documents .. would take me to my ross(home) folder
<ross_> right
<andyc> Agh, I mistyped that - I mean (The folder above ~/unixstuff)
<andyc> yes
<andyc> Why do GIDs change with new ubuntu versions?
<esteeven> good evening. I have a fresh install of 11.10 but there are no tty consoles. Are they disabled by default?
<ross_> clear
<ross_> so I'm typing grep -v science science.txt but I am not sure what it's doing
<AlanBell> esteeven: no, they should be there
<esteeven> AlanBell> Hmmmm. I thought so. They are not.
<AlanBell> ross_: it is looking for the word "science" in the file called science.txt
<ross_> what does the -v mean
<ross_> ?
<ross_> any ideas
<AlanBell> esteeven: ctrl+alt+f1 works for me, ctrl+alt+f7 brings me back
<AlanBell> ross_: try "man grep"
<esteeven> AlanBell> :) not for me........not yet.
<ross_> ooo interesting
<AlanBell> ross_: ah, it does the opposite of what I said :)
<ross_> Yeah I don;t understand what it is actually saying
<AlanBell> it should return all the lines from the file that don't contain "science"
<ross_> see those were words I can understand
<AlanBell> Invert the sense of matching, to select non-matching lines.  (-v is specified by POSIX.)
<AlanBell> yeah, that is a bit cryptic
<AlanBell> the manual pages tend to use rather precise language
<esteeven> AlanBell> I suspect that it may be that I installed from a beta. I'll get a torrent and try again :)
<andyc> Can I change the system monospace font in unity?
<ross_> ah interesting
<ross_> Once I typed cat then wrote a few words before pressing ctrl D it copies what I say
<ross_> I'm reading about redirecting the output
<ross_> when I type 'who' it lists three of me...the same and only user on the machine, any ideas why>?
<andyc> How many terminals do you have open?
<^aDaM> lo
<^aDaM> andyc, the andyc ? \o/
<^aDaM> I'msure I have said this to you before.
<andyc> I doubt I'm "The andyc"
<andyc> If you mean "The andyc" who is sat ina  room in manchester on IRC and reading fairly useless tech news on twitter
<andyc> Then yes
<andyc> tis me
<ross_> I have two terminals open
<andyc> If you type `who`, it will show username, tty, and a time
<ross_> Ohh I see
<andyc> if you type tty in one of the terminals
<andyc> It will say something like /dev/pts/0
<andyc> Which corresponds to one of the rows in the table returned by who
<andyc> This new installation of 11.10 HATES coming back from another tty to X
<andyc> I get really horrible artifacts/complete blackness on the screen
<^aDaM> haha andyc, my bad lol I was thinking more like the Andy C Drum 'n' Bass DJ :D
<^aDaM> \o/
<daubers> Evening
<zleap> good evening
<zleap> hello ross_
<MooDoo> evening all
<Monsterwizard> hi
<Pernig> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> hullo :D
<MooDoo> still at work, getting tired :)
<Pernig> i bet!
<MooDoo> still finish at 12 :D
<StevenR> hrrm. what's the unity launcher settings app called?
 * buzz_ just switched to xfce on ubuntu
<buzz_> the global menu on ubuntu was giving me wrist ache. felt like im constantly moving the mouse back and forth
<buzz_> (i know it can be removed/disabled but thats 1 of many things)
<TheOpenSourcerer> buzz_: I think the global menu sucks. It just demands too much mouse mileage
<buzz_> thats my feeling
<ali1234> where were you guys 6 months ago?
<ali1234> seriously :(
<buzz_> i was here
<buzz_> moaning about unity
<AlanBell> here, saying that the global menu sucks
<buzz_> ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The nautilus toolbar has now gone. You have to navigate to the top of the screen to do *anything* mouse-driven
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unity.png
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell:  Feeling better now?
<AlanBell> yeah, had a sleep
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> I won the chilli eat-off :-D (Of course)
<AlanBell> naturally :)
<buzz_> ouch
<gord> AlanBell, thats the version of unity from a year ago no?
<AlanBell> gord: yes, 2010-10-28
<buzz_> still, it illustrates the global menu point
<gord> that doesn't happen anymore
<AlanBell> gord: yes, there is a clone on monitor 2 now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Going to Lincolnshire tomorrow. I'm off to the Catchpoles are emigrating at end of the month.
<AlanBell> which sometimes even works
<ali1234> AlanBell: um. no?
<ali1234> on this machine, the global menu is only on the same monitor as the window
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's a decent alternative to Unity? i.e. One that is intuitive and doesn't GET IN MY WAY?
<buzz_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/668415 is like the window gadget position thing all over again. . Marks comment isnt relevant anymore since the ubuntu button is in the launcher now, but i assume canonical will have another reason why they wont let users configure things how they like
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 668415 in Ubuntu "Movement of Unity launcher" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: there is none. sorry
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thought so.
<ali1234> the closest to being workable is xfce
<AlanBell> ali1234: oh, I see, if a window overlaps then it is on both
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will stick on 10.10 for a while yet then.
<ali1234> but it is closer to gnome 1.x than gnome 2.x
<buzz_> gord, when will ubuntu listen to users? when they have all ditched the main ubuntu desktop environment ? :)
<ali1234> which is to say, nothing works right, and it's really ugly and has no good themes
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Shiny" isn't the issue...
<AlanBell> buzz_: depends what they say and when they say it
<ali1234> gnome 2.x with human theme was never shiny
<ali1234> it's just the only one that isn't completely horrible
<gord> updates always bring slight inconveniences, mountains and molehills i say personally
<TheOpenSourcerer> *slight* inconveniences...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm.
<ali1234> the other day i finally found a KDE user willing to listen to me explain in detail why KDE is ugly and at the end he was like "damn now i hate KDE"
<ali1234> and XFCE is no better at the moment
<gord> gnome 3 bugged me, but i just kept using it, reported problems to the desktop team, we distro-patched some stuff to make it slightly nicer. but i never felt like throwing the baby out with the bathwater
<ali1234> XFCE looks like KDE after you turn off the glowing gradient transparency effects
<buzz_> AlanBell, yeh well, ok, so ubuntu ignore what most users want from their desktop environment then. thats how it looks here from reading bugs and forum posts over the last years (and looking at the numbers of people jumping ship to say linuxmint - just ubuntu with a different ui). ubuntu underneath is "mostly" decent. just the UI stuff is the problem, and complaints have been falling on deaf ears since it all started
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gnome2 wasn't broken!
<ali1234> it kinda was
<ali1234> it was just less broken than everything else
<gord> thats what people said about gnome 1 ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's not just Ubuntu/Canonical's fault but currently everything seems to suck balls.
<AlanBell> unity is looking fixable to me right now
<AlanBell> another 6 months and it will be good for the LTS
<ali1234> i already gave you my shopping list of how to fix unity
<ali1234> none of it will be implemented though
<andres-kain> Guys cheer up! look at this job trend: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=ubuntu+linux%2C+windows7&l=
<buzz_> AlanBell, will it still need a middle mouse click ? im sure it will. the whole concept is broken imho
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: *we* don't have the bandwidth to fix it ;-)
<AlanBell> fix the alt tab oddness, fix the global menu
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: not my kind of development stuff at all really
<AlanBell> fix the apps lens
<ali1234> andres-kain: you made a typo: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=ubuntu+linux%2C+windows+7&l=
<andres-kain> OK but now put the y axis in logaritmic scale...
<ali1234> it doesn't have log...
<andres-kain> ok use relative http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=windows%2C+ubuntu&l=&relative=1
<hamitron> <TheOpenSourcerer> It's not just Ubuntu/Canonical's fault but currently everything seems to suck balls.  <--- nothing more to say ;)
<ali1234> i say we start a protest outside canonical towers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu 10.10 was/is a great OS. It's reliable, doesn't GET IN MY WAY, and *just works*. Not seen anything to match it since.
<ali1234> what do we want?
<ali1234> we're not sure!
<ali1234> when do we want it?
<ali1234> 6 months time!
<AlanBell> 12.04
 * hamitron is looking forward to 12.04
<andres-kain> is it not going to be monthly release after 10.04?
<andres-kain> 12.04*
<gord> no
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yeah that would be even better <sarcasm> go down the Mozilla - every 6 week major release - that sucks too (as an extension developer/maintainer).
 * hamitron would scrap the 6 monthly releases, and just have LTS.... but encourage PPA
<TheOpenSourcerer> </sarcasm>
<andres-kain> hamitron that sounds good.
 * AlanBell expects lively remote participation in the Unity UDS sessions
<hamitron> I'd bring back i586 binary too
<hamitron> encourage different branches with different GUI
<andres-kain> as an extension developer/maintainer quick releases means more work and more jobs: does it not?  companies will not be able to stick to their 5 year old code not maintained.
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> you wish
<AlanBell> hamitron: I would drop 32 bit binary
<hamitron> AlanBell, another option, yes
<hamitron> but I'd go for a wide audience
<ali1234> hamitron: that's exactly the problem that has got us in this mess
<hamitron> my thoughts were more for the project Lubuntu
<ali1234> everyone wants to be apple
<ali1234> have a wide audience
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - time for bed from me on Ubuntu 10.10 (Pidgin).
<buzz_> some hardware still needs 32 bit
<ali1234> at the expensive of their existing audience
<buzz_> plenty im sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: Not me - I have no interest in being Apple
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apple = lockin
<hamitron> ali1234, I don't agree
<ali1234> the lockin stuff is a smokescreen
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: What? for more lockin?
<ali1234> apple does not have lockin
<hamitron> I see no point in Shuttleworth mentioning Lubuntu, if there is no support for older hardware
<ali1234> they don't even charge for their SDK
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are far worse than MS for tying customers into their world
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh FFS. nn
<hamitron> nn
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> the "lockin" is used as a smokescreen by the people who want to position linux in the same market segment
<ali1234> "we're just like apple, except without the lockin"
<ali1234> "look, see, we have a dock, and a global menu"
<ali1234> "but we are OPEN"
<andres-kain> "and cheap and work on any computer"
<andres-kain> ?
<hamitron> tbh, the "free" as-in cheap is what wins me over ;)
<ali1234> open source software was never supposed to compete on price
<buzz_> i wouldnt pay for ubuntu
 * hamitron would
<hamitron> Â£5 maybe
<ali1234> i would pay for a distro with 5 years support for gnome 2.x starting today
<andres-kain> I am tempted on paying for support. not licence.
<andres-kain> debian?
 * hamitron was thinking that
<ali1234> no, debian doesn't support anything
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> tbh, most distro don't, do they? :/
<ali1234> pretty much
<hamitron> Redhat maybe? ;)
<ali1234> i guess i could switch to red hat
<ali1234> but finding rpms for it is a nightmare
<hamitron> I've decided to use slackware on my 32 bit comps now
<buzz_> i much prefer the debian setup. especially the use of conf.ds for lots of stuff. tidy
<ali1234> ok let me rephrase
<hamitron> then hoping ubuntu 12.04 for 64 bit
<andres-kain> scientific linux
<ali1234> i would pay for a debian based distro that commited to maintaining gnome 2.x for 5 years
<andres-kain> scientific linux will do the rpm search for you I think.
<ali1234> as long as they appeared to have the resources necessary for such a task
<buzz_> ali1234, just maintaining or forking/improving ?
<ali1234> buzz_: maintaining - in the sense of making sure the latest version of firefox etc works properly with it
<ali1234> and all other commonly used software
<ali1234> basically a suite of software similar to what you'd find on ubuntu
<ali1234> CD
<ali1234> and kernel updates
<ali1234> you know, the usual distro stuff
<buzz_> im happy enough to use xfce on ubuntu for now.
<hamitron> why not just aim to have a ubuntu base, with a Gnome 2.x set of packages?
<ali1234> sure
<buzz_> yeh that should be doable.. gnome2 ppa for ubuntu or so
<ali1234> but you have to make sure it works properly
<ali1234> you can't just compile it and get my money
<ali1234> and you have to keep it working for 5 years
<hamitron> could i not compile it, and get your money then? ;)
<ali1234> or at least until something better comes along
<hamitron> k :/
<AlanBell> what is the plan for the gnome2 packages?
<AlanBell> !info libgnome2-0
<lubotu3> libgnome2-0 (source: libgnome): The GNOME library - runtime files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.1-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 58 kB, installed size 232 kB
<AlanBell> stuff like that in main, is it staying in main?
<hamitron> I read in here from someone, it was going to be removed in 11.10
<andres-kain> !info stayinginmain?
<lubotu3> Package stayinginmain does not exist in natty
<andres-kain> the computer says no
<buzz_> probably as long as it is in debian for ?
<buzz_> actually i dunno..
<buzz_> i really should read how they pull updates from debian and work out what to remove strip out and replace with their own stuff etc.
<ali1234> they sync with debian in every cycle
<ali1234> then apply a bunch of patches
<ali1234> the patches used to go upstream more
<ali1234> then ubuntu developers introduced a load of subtle security bugs into debian
<buzz_> yeh but i mean more specifically, because some packages must be removed completely no? or installing them could break stuff
<ali1234> now the patches don't go upstream quite so much
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-15
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Weekly Canonical Community Team Meetings Now On IRC - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/15/weekly-canonical-community-team-meetings-now-on-irc/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] New Community Council - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/15/new-community-council/
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> hmm, streaming video via NFS seems to pause at times, I wonder how I can see what's going on on the disk in more detail than iotop
<popey> Morning everyone
<SuprEngr> o/
<DJones> Morning all
<dwatkins> ooh, iftop
<FunnyGuy> hi
<FunnyGuy> hi
<FunnyGuy> bye!
<daubers> Morning
<popey> yo
 * SuprEngr did upgrade in place for both netbook & desktop pooters last night. no fails to report - well done to  MS's team and all involved.
 * SuprEngr is now Oneiric'd
<popey> \o/
 * daubers needs to upgrade some servers soonish
<DJones> How can I check whether I'm running 64 or 32 bit, I'm sure I should have 64 bit, but just want to double check
<DJones> No worries, got it
<GirlyGirl> Hi
<GirlyGirl> DJones: in terminal "uname -a"
 * daubers pops into town to spend some money
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<ikonia> how amazingly frustrating, I went to place an order with scan after waiting for a part to come in stock, to find out that the motherboard I wanted is now out of stock and won't be coming back in stock, and the CPU I was ordering is on today only so reduced....
<ikonia> lesson learnt....never wait for parts,
<esteeven>  Hello. I am using the fglrx driver and it works but there is a lag when moving windows around ie the cursor gets ahead of the window. It's a bit disconcerting.
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> heya lovely laura
<czajkowski> christel: hey darling
<christel> :)
<DJones> Anybody around able to help with a grub2 problem of a fresh 11.10 install, I'm getting an error on boot "error: symbol not found: grub_divmod64_full"
<AlanBell> 64bit capable machine?
<DJones> No
<DJones> Fairly old Dell 210L, 32 bit installation from the alternate cd
<AlanBell> wonder what that "64" is doing in there
<DJones> Its a good question, the cd has been used on another machine and installed with no problems
<DJones> Just gets left at the grub rescue prompt
<AlanBell> bug 768716
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 836378 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #768716 Oneiric upgrade, boot hangs at error: symbol not found: grub_divmod64_full" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836378
<DJones> Good spot, I'll have a read
<AlanBell> have a look at 768716 as well as the new one
<DJones> bug 768716
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 836378 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #768716 Oneiric upgrade, boot hangs at error: symbol not found: grub_divmod64_full" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836378
<AlanBell> over-helpful bot
<DJones> Time to download the minimal iso
<penguin42> AlanBell: I suspect the 64 is just dividing 64bit values - like block addresses
<penguin42> DJones: Just checking, you are on grub2?
<AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, plenty of reasons for a 64 to be there, just the first thing that sprung to mind
<DJones> penguin42: Yes, grub 2, fresh 11.10 install
<DJones> Just trying to see how to use the minimal iso to reinstall grub now
<penguin42> DJones: Erk
<penguin42> DJones: OK, before you reinstall
<DJones> ok, go on
<penguin42> DJones: Can you take a copy of your /boot/grub as a tar and attach it to the bug
<DJones> I shall try, I'll see if I can get access to the hdd to tar it up
<penguin42> DJones: Thanks - it needs some analysis to find out wtf that symbol went!
<DJones> Just booting up with a livecd
<penguin42> DJones: Other than raid is there anything else odd about your machine ? zfs/btrfs/painted green?
<DJones> Not that I know of, Dell Optiplex 210L, 2 sata drives, 1 dvd/cd burner & 1 pata drive
<penguin42> ok
<DJones> Just stuck a live cd in and I don't even know which version it is
<penguin42> DJones: Also, do you have a separate /boot?
<DJones> No, 80gb sata is pationed as 25Gb "/", 4Gb "swap" and the rest as "/home", 2nd sata is 100gb & 200Gb data partitions, all as ext4, pata drive is a media storage partitioned as ext3
<penguin42> please comment all that in the bug
<penguin42> DJones: It's a pity the bugs are duped that way around - there is more info in the bug 768716 - my guess is that it's got half of the new grub on each of your drives
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 836378 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #768716 Oneiric upgrade, boot hangs at error: symbol not found: grub_divmod64_full" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836378
<DJones> penguin42: Which bug number would you prefer I attach this bug report to
<penguin42> DJones: 836378
<DJones> ok, will do
<ujjain> what does "all but stopped mean"?
<AlanBell> ujjain: means "very nearly stopped"
<AlanBell> but not quite
<ujjain> "EU memberships talks have all but stopped." < ok, I get it now :)
<ujjain> thanks!
<DJones> penguin42: Bug report submitted with attachment, now to reinstall grub, going to try the boot-repair-disk iso suggested on the grub2 wiki
<penguin42> DJones: Thanks
<penguin42> DJones: It looks kind of sane
<DJones> penguin42: Ah well, at least its there if needed, just waiting for the boot repair to finish to see if solves it
<DJones> :)
<DJones> Wrong window
<DJones> penguin42: The repair cd did its job anyway, up & running with no problems now
<penguin42> DJones: Good! Please add a comment on the bug to say that
<Monsterwizard> anyone here good at discete maths?
<isleofmandan> A friend of mine has managed to persuade another friend to install Ubuntu 11.10 as dual boot on a Windows machine. Trouble is, there's no Windows option at boot time now, goes straight to Ubuntu. This machine will be coming my way at the weekend - any idea where to look first?  (Windows files can be seen in Ubuntu, so at least is sounds like Win partition is intact!)
<isleofmandan> Monsterwizard - I've a maths degree, but it was a long time ago... If it's easy, and still in my memory, you could try me...!
<Azelphur> !fix_grub| isleofmandan
<Azelphur> aww, can't remember the factoid for that :(
<Monsterwizard> Ok well I'm doing strings and languages
<isleofmandan> pass :) Sorry!
<Azelphur> isleofmandan: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<Monsterwizard> I just need to see if the three questions I did were correct
<Monsterwizard> ok
<Monsterwizard> :p
<Monsterwizard> http://mathbin.net/74649
<Monsterwizard> anyway ^
<Monsterwizard> if anyone is interested
<Azelphur> isleofmandan: oh nice! there's a tool that does it now https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<Azelphur> press button fix boot XD
<penguin42> Monsterwizard: Interesting, don't know anything about it, almost looks like the formalisations behind regexps etc
<isleofmandan> Thanks Azelphur. Should save me some time. No idea why it didn't at Windows to boot menu though. I've never seen that behaviour before.
<isleofmandan> Monsterwizard: I looked. Definitely not my thing. :)
<Monsterwizard> thank though everyone
<penguin42> Monsterwizard: You might also look at dalnet irc - I think there might be a #math
<Monsterwizard> I'm on to it
<Monsterwizard> irc.dalnet.com ?
<penguin42> Monsterwizard: http://www.dal.net/servers/
<ujjain> "sheldon threw his back out, handing him that book" (what does throwing your back out mean?)
<penguin42> hurting it
<penguin42> like if you pick something up wrong or force someone to carry a heavy book
<ujjain> ah right, I get it
<ujjain> thanks.
<ujjain> I have another question, what makes a hostname resolve? I reinstalled my PC and Samba
<ujjain> but I can only access the computer via
<ujjain> \\192.168.10.138
<ujjain> and not anymore via \\DEVELOPER, with the hostname
<matti> AlanBell: You may laugh, but getting only 100 CD signed by Mark to sell them for a little bit more money in order to raise money for something, whoild not be such a bad idea :) Remember, that people value originality over anything else :)
<AlanBell> even one or two scattered randomly in the collection
<Azelphur> matti: that does sound quite cool
<matti> Azelphur: I know :0
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Manual rename command on OS X using bash - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/10/15/manual-rename/
<popey> âº
<alexluckett> Hi guys, wondering if anyone could help me? Ubuntu 11.10 won't work on my laptop (freezes, crashes) - Ubuntu 11.04 will. Got a feeling it's due to the new 3.0 kernel in 11.10
<alexluckett> Is there any way to run 11.10 with the kernel from ubuntu 11.04?
<hamitron> probably easier to use a custom kernel
<hamitron> or stick with 11.04
<hamitron> but it is way more fun to find out the problem
<hamitron> ;)
<alexluckett> Sorry, I'm a lil bit of a Linux noob. I wouldn't know how to do that :(.
<alexluckett> I've just come from Windows as my main OS, to Ubuntu... still learning, haha.
<hamitron> cool :)
<AlanBell> you would probably be better off running 11.04 than a hybrid of 11.10 with the 11.04 kernel
<AlanBell> but definitely file a bug
<hamitron> and AlanBell explains things better than me
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> alexluckett: does 11.10 boot up at all?
<alexluckett> Ah okay, thank you anyway! I'll file a bug
<AlanBell> enough to run "ubuntu-bug linux" from a terminal
<alexluckett> AlanBell: yes, however it freezes pretty much after I've logged in - mouse is the only thing that moves, can't do anything else
<AlanBell> might not be the kernel then, might be grahpics drivers if the mouse is moving
<AlanBell> have you tried unity 2d rather than unity?
<alexluckett> Yep, both the same.
<alexluckett> I could be wrong, but it sounds like my hard drive turns off, and my hard drive activity indicator on my laptop case stops flashing
<alexluckett> I thought it might have been that?
<AlanBell> when it happens can you use ctrl+alt+f1 to flip to a terminal?
<alexluckett> nope
<alexluckett> Can't do anything but hit the emergency restart button and move my mouse
<AlanBell> ok, well you can file a bug on launchpad and detail the hardware you have
<alexluckett> Okay, thank you. I already posted it the question/answers section in launchpad - does that matter?
<AlanBell> link?
<alexluckett> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/174499
<AlanBell> I would leave it there for a bit, see what suggestions you get
<alexluckett> okay, thanks for all your help :) I really appreciate it
<SuprEngr> hmmm... not impressed with 10.04 -> 11.10 imports. evolution doesn't import any contacts or calendars, thunderbird doesn't even recognise there's anything to im[ort from :(  come on chaps [& lchapessies]... realworld needs you to put than screens & titles there... functionality really would bre nice.
<penguin42> SuprEngr: Did you go straight from 10.04 to 11.10 ?
<SuprEngr> penguin42, no - from 11.04 - but never used it seriously [stayed with 10.04 for main work]
<SuprEngr> the files are therefore from 10.04
<SuprEngr> ...as in I still have 10.04 - the partion with 11.10 was upgraded from 11.04. Thought I'd give it a serious go ready for next LTS...
<penguin42> SuprEngr: My guess is that you'll have a better bet upgrading each apps files one step at a time - but I don't honestly know
<SuprEngr> and this is not "whining *- a lot of peeps gave time free of charge for me to use it - I'm grateful for what does work.
<penguin42> SuprEngr: Report them as bugs - my guess is that people test upgrades from the previous version, but not much more than that; I guess they also will try one LTS to the next
<SuprEngr> penguin42, yeh.. i was wondering the same.  on t'other hand - a nice chance to start anew.
<SuprEngr> ;)
<Univoid> guys i just upgraded to 11.10 now my netbeans project c++ wont build complains about a lot unresolved references
<penguin42> Univoid: I know *nothing* about netbeans....but
<penguin42> Univoid: Do you have a link line which has a bunch of -lwhatever ?
<Univoid> yes it uses pkg-config --lib --cflags gtk+-3.0 to get includes
<penguin42> Univoid: Do you have the full link line?
<Monsterwizard> hello world
<dwatkins> hi Monsterwizard
<AlanBell> just tracked an upgrade problem in one of the kids computers down to faulty ram
<mgdm> Hmmm
<mgdm> this machine's stuck using Monaco as the terminal font
<penguin42> AlanBell: Oh that always causes fun - getting hash mismatches in dpkg ?
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> was running just fine with 11.04
<penguin42> AlanBell: Downloading and hashing a few hundred MB of data is a reasonably good test
<AlanBell> indeed
<AlanBell> what is a good networked game in the repos?
<penguin42> can someone just confirm something for me; default side for window button on OO is on the left?
<AlanBell> yes
<penguin42> thanks
 * SuprEngr wonders why they took the fun of me pictures folder from 11.10 - as in "wot - no screensaver?!"
 * SuprEngr cries at thought of no more slideshow of own prized photies :(
 * AlanBell installs nexuiz server and client for some deathmatch stuff
<DJones> Seems stragnge that to play deathmatch games, you have to have friends who you're prepared to kill
<AlanBell> I have children :)
<DJones> You're prepared to kill your children...../me calls the nspcc
<DJones> And in case anybody reports that log, I know, its not a serious comment
<AlanBell> they are prepared to kill me, I am only defending myself!
<DJones> Heh
<AlanBell> there really should be an FPS where most of the players are armed to the teeth, and someone gets to be Daddy and go round taking their weapons away
<DJones> I've now got a vision of a game of Grand Theft Auto where a kid in nappies pulls a 458 Magnum on his father for taking away his derringer :)
<jacobw> \o/ oneiric
<SuprEngr> jacobw, let me know when you find the secret of the hidden [as in any at all] screensavers
 * jacobw investigates
<jacobw> its a one
<jacobw> oops
<jacobw> ahem, removing the screensaver program seems to one of the ways they've made gnome 3 better :P
<SuprEngr> ;)
<zleap> hello
<zleap> hello C-S-B
<C-S-B> hi
<shauno> it seems there's plans for the screensaver, they just haven't come to fruition yet - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-screensaver
<zleap> How are you
<SuprEngr> shauno, thanks - all I found were bugs saying what I found - yours is good news
 * SuprEngr makes note to check next time in vm tests *before* release
<SuprEngr> knock knock - who's there - "he says he's a rugby ref" said mrs welsh - shoot the *****r sed mr welsh
<shauno> VMs are odd.  I'd never have noticed a missing screensaver in a VM
<SuprEngr> ...and so she shot the ref - [& saved the rugby union a load of Â£Â£Â£]
 * SuprEngr tops going o/t
<SuprEngr> yep - never thought about checking a sleeping pooter in a VM  - shame, i'm proud of my my photies and like them in a slide show now & again
<penguin42> tend not to want screensavers in VMs, it only wastes CPU on the host
<SuprEngr> VM testing of screensavers - *sad*
<shauno> I tend to turn even blanking off in a VM.  it's just annoying, forcing me to give it a password when I resume it
<SuprEngr> ...till you come to the real thing
<SuprEngr> ...but if that's the worst thing I can say about the guys and guyesses giving me a free distro... I still say well done to them.
 * SuprEngr refrains from commenting on 10.10 & 11.04 however ;)
<GirlyGirl> SuprEngr: Guyesses??
<SuprEngr> GirlyGirl, yeh... it's short for / slang for GirlyGirls i 'spose :D
<AlanBell> yay, offspring laptop all oneiriced
<shauno> what did they do to deserve that?
<AlanBell> didn't eat their broccoli
<shauno> hm, sending mail from a script; I can't find any way to set a different From address when just doing content > mail user@host
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-16
<pepito> good morning everyone!
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> g'day! Loverley weather in the SE today :)
 * danfish is updating an hp microserver to 11.10 and crossing fingers and toes!
<SuprEngr> Google+ suspended Super Engineer's a/c - didn't believe it was a real name - lol
 * SuprEngr is now now known as Bill Boo on G+
<dwatkins> yeah, they seem to have decreed we're not allowed to use anything but real names, annoyingly
<SuprEngr> I feel sorry for all those good peeps using the name Ubuntu + firstname on G+
<SuprEngr> i did wonder how I got away with mine for so long ;)
<dwatkins> the thing is, they did a complete about-face on this issue
<dwatkins> http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2011/02/freedom-to-be-who-you-want-to-be.html
 * SuprEngr looks at ^
<SuprEngr> hmmm... interesting
<dwatkins> yeah, as many of the comments say it appears to be a complete reversal
<dwatkins> They could insist you tell them your real name, but it remain secret, for example.
<SuprEngr> but end result of the policy is that e.g. "Super Engineer" gets suspended with only option given being to change it and "submit for approval" which "normally takes a few days"
<dwatkins> http://vimeo.com/26180854
<dwatkins> interesting interview
<SuprEngr> love it!  - as I haver always maintained.. sarcasm is the *highest* form of wit
<dwatkins> indeed
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> aloha
<SuprEngr> anyone got Tomboy Notes synching setup in 11.10?  I get as far "Connected. Pree Save to start synchronising". The Save button stays grayed out ^ can't be pressed.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] The obligatory Hello Planet Ubuntu post - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/09/07/the-obligatory-hello-planet-ubuntu-post/
<doubi> 'afternoon all. I foolishly started dd'ing a device to an external HD without specifying a reasonable block size. The drive is ~480Gb, it's copied ~340 since Friday night.
<doubi> Now, I've read that ddpt and dd_rescue both have the ability to resume a copy. What I'd like to know is if they'll be able to do so with an image created by plain ol' dd? Because if so, I should be able to Ctrl-C this process and resume it with a reasonable block size and finish the whole thing quicker, right?
<penguin42> hmph, freenode took a while to connect
<popey> Afternoon all
<Girly-Girl> popey: Hi
<SevenMachines> SuprEngr: Remove the trailing '/' from the server, make it https://one.ubuntu.com/notes
<ubuntu-fan>  I'm looking for person who be able to help me with native translation. Is here anyone who is under 18 and coming from UK?
<jacobw> ubuntu-fan: why under 18?
 * jacobw has just discovered bash vi mode \o/
<ubuntu-fan> jacobw: it's not obligatory
<ubuntu-fan> but we would meke sure translation is correct
<jacobw> what are you translating, in to en_GB I presume?
<ubuntu-fan> it's photo album
<ubuntu-fan> all about catastrophy wihich cused water
<ubuntu-fan> jacobw: how about tis kind of challenge? Are you in?
<jacobw> i don't have the time right now, if you post a link to more details someone in here will probably have time to help you.
<jacobw> o/ issyl0
<issyl0> Hey!
 * issyl0 wonders how she went so long without realising that she was Guest[whatever]...
<ubuntu-fan> jacobw:ok. thx for your attention. By the way, do you know some english forums focused about translations?
<jacobw> i don't
<ubuntu-fan> ok, one more time: THX.
<SuprEngr> given up on 1104 -> 1110 upgrade in place Oneiric. formatted partion.  too many fails
 * SuprEngr downloads 1110 iso to see if fresh install kills those bugs before reporting
<SuprEngr> [how's that for dedication!]
<SuprEngr> ...& it was oh so promising... no fails in upgrade - all 'apparently' working :(
<penguin42> SuprEngr: What broke?
<SuprEngr> tomboy, U1, evolution [should I continue?]
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> upgrade from 11.04 ?
<SuprEngr> shame... it reallly did go so well & in normal use noone would notice any fail... guess I'm not normal
<SuprEngr> ;)
<SuprEngr> penguin42, yup, upgrade in place 11.04 -> 11.10
<SuprEngr> 1st time I'd tried it - always done fresh instals before
<SuprEngr> but I still will not knock it or Ubuntu - I am given this software for very little in return... so I find what's wrong, I report bugs
<SuprEngr> [pity others in some other channels forget that ethos
<SuprEngr> still... theres BTCC on ITV4 to pass the download / install time ;)
 * SuprEngr hums waiting for iso to download .... & shuts gob due to realisation of channel hogging :D
<smittix> afternoon all
<smittix> anyone noticing any wireless problems with 11.10?
<jacobw> i haven't smittix, what problems are getting?
<DJones> smittix: Seems fine on my machines
<jacobw> *you
<smittix> Ultra slow connectivity
<smittix> Looks like a driver problem as if I disable 'n' it works fine.
<smittix> all previous releases have also been fine.
<jacobw> with n? how are you disabling n?
<smittix> By issuing           <-- | leeb9972
<smittix>          
<smittix> sudo rmmod iwlagn
<smittix> sudo modprobe iwlagn 11n_disable=1
<jacobw> have you checked how busy your channel is?
<smittix> Yes, nothing around here on the current channel
<smittix> I have fallen back to 11.04 just to test it and its working fine.
 * peng42phone looks at penguin42
 * penguin42 looks back
<jacobw> feedback loop :P
<jacobw> smittix: i've found reports of problems with iwlagn and kernel 3.0.x
<jacobw> smittix: there doesn't seem to be a solution besides kernel downgrade
<gord> SSO looks down :(
<mgdm> SPOFSO? :-)
<jacobw> hehe
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> How do czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great match this morning :-)
<daubers> Evening
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Kiwis were pretty awesome.
<DJones> daubers: What have you broke (re twitter fixing things again)
<daubers> DJones: Some foam packing in a case I have (it's pick and pluck stuff, tends to degrade with constant use)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right, better go and finish dinner for the family. Anything good on telly tonight?
<DJones> daubers: Fake quavers?
<daubers> DJones: No, black pick and pluck foamy stuff like this http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=pick+and+pluck+foam&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1184&bih=615&tbm=isch&tbnid=ZR3LknDv8_0snM:&imgrefurl=http://www.casesbysource.com/product/soft-charcoal-ester-pick-and-pluck-foam-2-pack-fs04&docid=JNEUyWBwUEQBLM&imgurl=http://www.casesbysource.com/img/cache/variation/FS04375_319_.jpg&w=375&h=281&ei=5wabTpnDK8Sl8QPIi_3XBQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=233&sig=102392950821632151567&page
<daubers> =1&tbnh=127&tbnw=169&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0&tx=4&ty=25
<daubers> ...nice
<daubers> http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQUl4j2NthG9T8EKbwHJKBSMCtY2-Fv82DaXGueuh0x4bBl8rQJ
<daubers> Still not nice, but better
<DJones> Link still doesn't work in irssi, the ":" breaks the link, don't worry about it
<daubers> Haven't managed to do a thing on my ldap tool since I got backk from holiday :(
<jacobw> google should make beter use of their url shortener
<bigcalm_lappy486> Evenin' all
<daubers> http://goo.gl/R01Y2 <- shortened image url
<jacobw> evening bigcalm
<DJones> That link worked, I see what mean, foam does go funny after a while
<daubers> yeah, 'm just gluing it onto a board base to try and give it back some rigidity
<gord> kinda strange that the slowest mirrors in my apt sources is google...
 * daubers wonders if googles apt mirror has a line like "if user='gord' then THROTTLE"
<gord> well it peaked at 300bytes/second ;)
<gord> its only there for the google+ hangout plugin, but it slows down all my apt-get updates
<daubers> heh :)
<m4r35n357> hmm, anyone know how to get rhythmbox to load songs from twonkymedia?
<m4r35n357> it's just sitting there, empty
<m4r35n357> works fine on my netbooks, but nothing appears on the laptop
<m4r35n357> according to twonkymedia, it has been contacted by teh laptop
<m4r35n357> but no songs . . .
<m4r35n357> nothing in banshee either
<smittix> well adding a config file to modprobe.d sorted the wireless out for a quick fix.
<smittix> Does anyone change the launcher size here? I usually change it using CCSM but for some reason it wont save the settings?
<smittix> Bah I hate how you can't easily edit startup services in 11.10.
<Univoid> anyone here used webkitgtk??
<mgdm> I used it for evil, once
<smittix> Univoid: Try asking in #webkit-gtk
<smittix> Quiet in here tonight
 * smittix thinks everyone is watching X-Factor :/
<mgdm> Oh heck no
 * brobostigon has close encouters on, :)
<brobostigon> encounters*
<smittix> brobostigon: Was going to watch it but missed the begining
<brobostigon> smittix: i made sure i watched the whole thing, :)
 * smittix watched flight of the navigator earlier
<mgdm> \o/
<mgdm> great film
<smittix> indeed! one of my many favourites
<smittix> I have a collection from my childhood heh
<smittix> Wargames, D.A.R.Y.L, Goonies etc
<mgdm> Not seen the Goonies actually, but I remember the other two
 * smittix taps popey on the shoulder.
<Univoid> Wat bout ET
<smittix> I have that too!
<smittix> Classic
<smittix> Tron and Pi too!
<Univoid> wat about I think it was called the last starfighter
<Univoid> i need to get it i think
<Univoid> aint seen Pi
<smittix> Pi is a good, I will dig it out for you
 * daubers puts Merlin on and dozes off on the sofa
<daubers> stupid colds
 * SuprEngr sends daubers a vitual box of snot rags
<penguin42> daubers: I hope it's not your cold I'm getting - or I'll get very angry
 * SuprEngr sends penguin42  a vitual box of snot rags
<penguin42> why thank you
<penguin42> I'll send them back later
 * SuprEngr dons a face mask
<bigcalm> Evening peeps
<penguin42> http://jezebel.com/5849891/baby-ocelot-kitten-is-too-cute-for-words would have made a good OO backdrop
<Pendulum> penguin42: that's adorable!
<penguin42> it is isn't it - dreamy even
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-08
<popey> Morning all!
<christel> morning popey
<MooDoo> hello all
<mungojerry> does anyone know about the processor in the iphone5?
<mungojerry> i heard apple may have designed their own chip
<daubers> mungojerry: It's a weird apple designed thing a bit like arm
<daubers> think it has an arm core, then lots of apple added stuff
<mungojerry> so are ARM gaining financially from it?
<daubers> probably
<mungojerry> i have ARM shares, and the price seems to swing wildly on apple news (e.g.lots of ipads sold...whahey)
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A6 <- suggests it's an armv7 based thing
<mungojerry> i know they signed a special licence with apple
 * daubers is quite interested in the Cortex-A15 stuff when it finally hits the market
<mungojerry> i noticed news about the arm support in 3.7 has been unified across SoC
<mungojerry> linux kernel 3.7
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<mungojerry> time to replace your hp microservers: http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> today I learn python
<SuperMatt> maybe
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> ning
<SuperMatt> I have an app in mind for the next showdown so I'm getting started now
<SuperMatt> writing code that sites within my ubuntu one folder is awesome, means I can take it to any PC with me and continue working on it :D
<gord> why not just use a revision control system?
<SuperMatt> I can, I'll probably stick it on launchpad, but for now while I'm dong exercises, it doesn't matter so much
<popey> Tomato juice o'clock!
<daubers> popey: Turned red yet?
<mungojerry> has u1 got version control yet?
<jacobw> is the tomato juice for a particular project? like jono's charity show?
<popey> daubers, no
<popey> mungojerry, no
<popey> jacobw, no
<AlanBell> popey is not from del monte
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Or TSB
<Daviey> popey: you are not a tomato juice drinker, are you?
<popey> Daviey, No. I am not, "not a tomato juice drinker"
<jacobw> tomato or openwrt? that is the question
<popey> ebuyer spam o'clock
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/341347-kingston-60gb-v-200-ssd-svp200s3-60g
<popey> their spam says 30 quid
<popey> must have sold out
<mungojerry> SSD is now 0.50 per GB
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungojerry> popey, what's the diff? http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/ocz-ssd2-1vtxpl60g-vertex-plus-internal-2-5-sata-ii-ssd-60gb-11342072-pdt.html?srcid=867&cmpid=comp~Google~Computing+Accessories~11342072&istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istItemId=ptmpqpai&istBid=t
<popey> mungojerry, longer url?
<popey> i expect the performance is better on the kingston one but can't find the specs of the ocz
<Oli> mungojerry: the kingston uses a newer controller. The vertex plus is ancient.
<Oli> (by SSD standards)
<mungojerry> Oli, thanks
<mungojerry> performance or something else too?
<AlanBell> popey: they fixed the price now
<Oli> Short answer: Who knows exactly.
<Oli> mungojerry: I'm fairly certain benchmarks exist out there for both though. They have both been popular products in their time.
<Oli> Cor blimey they're cheap though! I'd only been looking at the model numbers and only just noticed they're asking for Â£30 for each. Argl. Pains in my wallet. Somebody call a bank manager!
<Oli> Four of those in RAID0 would blow your face off...
<mungojerry> 4x the risk of failure
<mungojerry> i think you would have a failure within 1 yr
<popey> I've yet to have a single SSD fail
<mungojerry> :-\
<gord> i think you are more likely to want to upgrade your SSD to a larger capacity before they will fail
<popey> yeah
<mungojerry> except when used in servers
<mungojerry> we experience high failure rates due to death from writes
<directhex> vertex plus is first-gen sandforce iirc
<mungojerry> hard drives tend to die of age, rather than i/o
<gord> maybe you don't want an SSD then
<mungojerry> we need them for performance
<directhex> for servers, buy intel 710 series. you won't wear out the write cycles any time soon
<gord> cache cache and cache some more
<directhex> i.e. the write cycle allocation on a consumer-grade drive is around the 60TB mark, depending on factors. intel 710 is around 1.5PB depending on size
<directhex> yes they cost more, but over a period of 3 years, replacing consumer-level SSDs which are worn out (and not warrantied as a result) will cost a lot more
<Oli> And most controllers can work around failing sectors. OCZ stuff has a 5-10% buffer (you get less usable space but it'll keep working)
<directhex> all controllers have some number of reserved sectors for reallocation.
<directhex> the question is how gracefully they deal with the initial reallocation, and with maxing out all reallocation sectors
<directhex> in ocz's case, the answers to those two questions are "lol" and "loooooooool"
<directhex> especially on the older controllers
<Oli> s/controllers/firmwares/
<mungojerry> all these faster components are keeping my 4+ year old laptop running very nicely
<directhex> Oli, mmm, yes, that's more correct
<directhex> e.g. intel 330 series and ocz 3-series use the same controller, but the firmware makes a huge difference in performance (and more importantly, reliability) characteristics
<directhex> Oli, raid0 with ssd would likely not improve speed btw
<Oli> To their credit, OCZ has done a lot of work on improving some of their failings. it's a shame they then go and roll something out like the Revo 3 which seems to be a completely proprietary controller.
<Oli> directhex: depends on your RAID controller and bus. I've got the PCI-E OCZ Revo (RAID0 on PCIE) and that still bombs along. Slow by the most modern standards but that system of doing things scales up to multiple gigabits per second in their latest jazz.
<directhex> Oli, the revodrive pci-e ssd?
<Oli> yeah
<directhex> or their old raid3 sata controller?
<directhex> hm, i think that was xfx's actually
<Oli> the raid-and-SSD-in-one
<Oli> Ooo. Intel are doing PCI-E SSDs
<directhex> 910 series? yes/
<directhex> i wouldn't build my business on ocz data storage
<Oli> Oh god no.. I don't think I'd build my storage on any one business though. They're all occasionally dire.
<directhex> the reason to pay for intel's "consumer" grade drives (330 or 520) is because when they cock up, they reliably go read-only
<directhex> with ocz, your os will keep sending data to write, and it might get written, or might not, who knows
<directhex> unwritten data gets thrown away
<AlanBell> going read only is a good failure mode
<mungojerry> yeah, didn't know that
<mungojerry> i wonder if it's actually works in practice
<directhex> i'm informed by our co-lo host that it does
<shauno> that's been my sole problem with ssd so far. when they go wrong, they go very wrong
<directhex> ocz i also hate because their firmware update process is hateful
<directhex> kingston is the best for ssd firmware updates from the drives i've tried
<mungojerry> are they good on their 3yr warranty?
<mungojerry> never got a drive replaced by manufacturer, only under dell support
<directhex> i've not had to make a warranty claim directly with anyone yet
<directhex> most ssd firmware updates must be done either by booting windows & the ssd *not* being the boot drive, OR by booting some kind of updater ISO which typically runs freedos or a mini distro
<directhex> ocz's updater iso is particularly hateful, and in the end i had to scour their forums for an admin who posted an old version of the updater to mediafire.com, as the latest version "accidentally" can't update old bugged firmwares to less bugged versions, you need an older version of the updater to handle older drives properly
<mungojerry> what does the ssd firmware do generally?
<directhex> kingston you can update your current boot drive safely, either with the windows-based tool or gtk+ tool for desktop linux
<directhex> mungojerry, makes it work. which might sound obvious, but crucial shipped firmware for the M4 SSD that would cause a BSOD every hour once you had 5000 hours of cumulative drive uptime, and OCZ have shipped drives that vanish from the bus and cause windows to hard lock for years
<Goshawk> hi there, i'm trying to install a program in the terminal. It tells me to enter the installation path, which i do, the tells me i have no write to said path. any ideas?
<Goshawk> 'write premission'
<popey> Goshawk, what is it you're trying to install?
<Goshawk> freeorion - the game ;)
<brobostigon> !info freeorion
<popey> cool
<lubotu3> Package freeorion does not exist in precise
<popey> http://www.playdeb.net/software/FreeOrion
<popey> could you use that package?
<brobostigon> sudo dpkg -i PAACKGE
<Goshawk> popey: got rev3727 already
<Goshawk> popey: how did you go about installing it?
<popey> I didnt :)
<Goshawk> ok, fair doos :)
<Goshawk> So how do i give myself write permission?
<popey> what instructions are you following for installation?
<Goshawk> just the set up file in the terminal
<popey> where from?
<Goshawk> from the unpacked download
<popey> where from?
<Goshawk> i unpacked the DL on a external hd
<AlanBell> from where did you download it?
<gord> its probably trying to install in /opt/
<AlanBell> and what is the installation path you are giving it?
<Goshawk> AlanBell: http://www.playdeb.net/software/FreeOrion thats where the DL came from
<AlanBell> hmm, that isn't working at all for me, but I am on 12.10
<AlanBell> the whole playdeb thing seems to need to be set up as a repository
<AlanBell> but anyhow, getting it from there it should be a package that installs through the software centre
<Goshawk> i tryd that but software centre say it cant open the file
<gord> should probably note that the last release they have for free orion was from 10.04
<Goshawk> yeah, fair point
<Goshawk> well thanks for the help anyhows :)
<daubers> ls
<daubers> bah
<popey> .
<popey> ..
<popey> goat_porn
<kirrus> how bored are you popey ? ;)
<popey> heh
<Flashtek> zleap:
<daubers> rm -Rf ~popey
<Seeker`> :O
<Flashtek> sudo umount popey
<daubers> less popey & more | cat kitten
<daubers> I think freeview changing to DVB-S2 broke my old usb dvb dongle
 * Flashtek is looking for a DSL modem that does bridging for use in the UK... recommendations via PM please...
<mgdm> daubers: most things should still be DVB-T, thought it was only the HD stuff that was DVB-T2
<daubers> mgdm: Maybe it's just old and pants then :)
<mgdm> heh heh
<mgdm> DVB-S2 is the Freesat stuff, iIRC
<daubers> getting lots of "cannot pre fill buffer" and "Failed with errno 0 when reading" stuff
<mgdm> hmmmm
<daubers> ah interesting
<daubers> take it out of the usb hub and it's fine
<zleap> hi Flashtek
<zleap> Flashtek,
<daubers> Woot! Now I can get the radio properly :)
 * daubers ponders streaming this around the house using vlc
<daubers> Alternativley I could have just turned on the radio that's sat next to the laptop
<davmor2> daubers: surely you mean less popey & more | tail -f kitten
<popey> \o/ kittens
<MartijnVdS> \o/ pumpkin soup
<kirrus> MartijnVdS: you're making pumpkin lanterns?
<MartijnVdS> kirrus: no, just the soup
<MartijnVdS> I'm not good enough with knives to make lanterns
<MartijnVdS> I'd bleed dry before finishing one
 * mgdm is going to ask his friend with a laser cutter
<mgdm> ;-)
<kirrus> mgdm: doesn't that count as cheating? (even if it is pretty awesome cheating)
<kirrus> MartijnVdS: that's a shame :(
<MartijnVdS> kirrus: what about a waterjet?
<kirrus> MartijnVdS: wouldn't that just get messy?
<davmor2> \o/ Pumpkin Kittens \o/
<daubers> popey: On the subject of kittens... do you have petplan or similar?
<popey> we did
<popey> but don't now
<kirrus> davmor2: http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9100/catolantern1cj2.jpg
<daubers> How much was it? The missus wants a kitten
<popey> they refused to pay out for our previous cat
<daubers> really? on what grounds?
<popey> pre-existing condition
<popey> which we didn't know about
<daubers> ah... ok
<popey> they're arseholes
<popey> they put the heavy sell on and make out like everything is covered
<daubers> Isn't that just insurance companies in general??
<popey> clare tore them apart on the phone
<popey> not in my experience
<daubers> do you have any form of pet insurance now? Or just cover it yourselves?
<davmor2> kirrus: I was thinking more this kinda thing http://www.bandofcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/cat-pumpkin-stencils_waving-cat.jpg
<MartijnVdS> stencils = cheating
<davmor2> http://www.bandofcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cat-pumpkin-carving_026.jpg
<davmor2> http://www.meow.com/product_images/uploaded_images/cat-pumpkin-carving-062.jpg
 * daubers gets the meerkats looking into it
<daubers> Hmmm... according to the meerkats, homebase is better than petplan
<kirrus> davmor2: they're cool
<popey> daubers, we have none
<popey> ooh, reminds me, car insurance due soon
<popey> uh, the meerkcat thinks my car has 6 seats
<daubers> popey: Ta :) Just need to find a kitten that needs a home now really
<davmor2> popey: nice did you know about the extra seat?
 * popey told the meerkat it has 5
<davmor2> popey: did you not know your car is 2 front 2 back and 2 fold aways in the boot?
<popey> it doesnt
<popey> thats an option
<popey> which it doesn't have
<davmor2> popey: hahahaa or so you thought
<ali1234> hey directhex, that stuff you posted on mjg's blog is factually inaccurate, jfyi :)
<ali1234> "purging Microsoft's key means losing hardware support, unless you turn off Secure Boot." - this isn't true, it is possible to add the signatures of firmwares on a one by one basis, without needing the kek that they are all signed by
<ali1234> and i realise that most people won't do it as it won't be easy, however, it is possible none the less
<directhex> ali1234: did you reply as such on the blog?
<ali1234> yes, but under a different thread
<AlanBell> !info phpmyadmin
<lubotu3> phpmyadmin (source: phpmyadmin): MySQL web administration tool. In component universe, is extra. Version 4:3.4.10.1-1 (precise), package size 5217 kB, installed size 15113 kB
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps
<popey> pip pip
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> popey: what'd you think about my post about VMs and VLANs?
<bootinfdsds> Screw-me ! Just stumbled across some dude called Richard D. Hall on Youtube.co.uk  :: Surprised that these people still exist !
<dwatkins> UFO believers, bootinfdsds?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: Alien believers just need to head to margate, people continually see a UFO moving at high speeds off the coast here, I've seen it myself
<Azelphur> no idea wtf it is.
<KrimZon> UFO believers don't actually exist, they're a hoax
<Azelphur> UFO = unidentified flying object, just so we are clear here, take it literally. UFO != Aliens
<dwatkins> I believe there are unidentified objects in the sky, but that just means that we havn't worked out what kind of plane they are yet.
<dwatkins> My point exactly, Azelphur :)
<Azelphur> ^ that
<dwatkins> If there were aliens, I very much doubt they'd bother buzzing members of the public after flying all the way here. They'd either quietly approach the governments of the world, or they'd hang in the air for all to see like a large gold brick doesn't.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: District 9
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, or V or The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy ;)
<MartijnVdS> V?!
<MartijnVdS> V doesn't have aliens...
<dwatkins> the ships hung in the air
<Azelphur> hitchhikers guide to the galaxy would be amusing
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yes it does O.O
<Azelphur> did you even watch V
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: assuming http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ here
<bootinfdsds> dwatkins, crop circles versus MI5 too !
<Azelphur> that's V for vendetta, not V
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there's a difference?!
<Azelphur> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1307824/
<dwatkins> I mean this series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhtkV5622Yo
<Azelphur> xD
<MartijnVdS> oh
<dwatkins> ff to 30s for the ships hovering
<Azelphur> no aliens, just ignore those big space ship thingies.
<Azelphur> they are ... uhh ... christmas decorations!
<MartijnVdS> Independence Day
<dwatkins> so, aliens either don't exist, or they're quietly liaising with the governments of this world and we'll never know.
<dwatkins> ah yes, thanks MartijnVdS - I knew there was at least one more film I was thinking of
<MartijnVdS> "Let's use a mac to upload the virus to the alien ship."
<MartijnVdS> proving that macs came from aliens.
<dwatkins> considering the vast distances involved, I think it's more likely that no alien race has discovered yet, and highly possible that we're the first race to get beyond banging rocks together.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, that makes me laugh every time :)
<dwatkins> oh look, their alien operating system is binary compatible to a PowerBook...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: then it MUST be alien!
<dwatkins> hahaha
<dwatkins> perhaps Apple were run by aliens back then...
<dwatkins> *conspiracy*
<MartijnVdS> Jobs didn't die, he just went home
<dwatkins> dun dun duuuuuuun - the real mystery unfolds
 * AlanBell wonders what happened to shuttleworth on the ISS
<dwatkins> he went up there?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: why do you think Ubuntu looks like MacOS these days
<AlanBell> dwatkins: his thinkpad is still up there as far as I know
<dwatkins> cool
<MartijnVdS> forgot to pack? :)
<AlanBell> http://ariss.rac.ca/faqariss2.htm blown power supply now
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxAoxwYyxE&feature=plcp
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Do you use libvirt/any other kind of virtualization on Ubuntu? :)
<dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4qRJ-ym3U0&feature=plcp :)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: sure, KVM on servers and virtualbox on laptop
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did you see my post about vlans? Took me ages to figure it all out 8-)
<AlanBell> oh, I did have a read, I was going to re-read it slowly with our server config in front of me
<MartijnVdS> heh :)
<MartijnVdS> vlan trunks are fun
<MartijnVdS> once you understand how they interact with Linux and the bridge code
<AlanBell> yeah, allows us to use all the addresses in a subnet
<dwatkins> I wonder if I should do a CCNA or something similar.
<MartijnVdS> It also allow you to separate traffic from different networks completely.. like "customer" and "office" traffic (as I've used it for)
<MartijnVdS> They only "meet" on the router
<MartijnVdS> and it's smart enough not to forward everything ;0
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<AlanBell> /etc/network/interfaces has 162 lines on this host
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: if you have questions, or if it's unclear, just ask :)
<AlanBell> vmbuilder is new to me too
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Mark Shut. was giving a talk on the tele this week about space .. Do you want me to find the link ?
<AlanBell> bootinfdsds: sure, that sounds interesting
<bootinfdsds> scanning 4 Mark S. ....
<bootinfdsds> Not sure if its blocked now .. but here it is ..http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/7128   TEll me if it works , please.
<AlanBell> I got one of those Â£29 SSDs today, deciding whether to let one of the kids use it or find something better to do with it
<AlanBell> bootinfdsds: works, thanks
<bootinfdsds> cool ;)
<bootinfdsds> I sat my bicycle theory exam in that hall .. very nerve-racking, let me tell you !
 * daubers doesn't want to buy 5000 resistors :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: You could sell them at a profit
<MartijnVdS> daubers: there's an option to buy SMD stuff in small quantities.. let me find it
<daubers> Surface Mount resistors? Who'd buy those
<daubers> MartijnVdS: At HUGE cost
<MartijnVdS> daubers: no at REASONABLE Cost
<daubers> Nobody does good deals on middling amounts
<daubers> I need 60!
<daubers> Just 60!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: yes!
<daubers> Or 30 even
<daubers> sorry
<daubers> 5 boards not 10
<bootinfdsds> How can you resist ?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you can buy several 100 for a fair price.. not quite 5000
<daubers> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surface-mount-fixed-resistors/7172994/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: they even put it on a pick&place reel for you
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Building a pick and place machine to populate 5 boards is even sillier than buying 5000 resistors when I need 30!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: in that case.. why NOT buy 5000?
<MartijnVdS> and.. I don't know.. sell them to the needy?
<MartijnVdS> leave them at the hackspace for general use?
<daubers> But 5000 resistors is a _lot_
<daftykins> daubers: it was you that works with RAID a lot wasn't it?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it is..
<daubers> daftykins: Yes
<daftykins> ever make much of 3ware controller resets under Windows?
<daubers> urgh
<daubers> 2 words in that sentence that make me want to run and hide
<daftykins> :D
<daubers> 3ware and Windows
<daftykins> yay \o/
<daftykins> normally i see it if i have to reset the PC, but i got one during use recently
<daftykins> not sure whether i should be concerned yet
<daubers> Is the controller bombing out?
<daftykins> not that i've seen
<daftykins> the message just came up in the Windows AV alarm prog
<daubers> What was the message?
<daftykins> INFO   :  Sep 29, 2012 06:10:21 PM: Controller 0: Controller reset occurred: resets=1
<daubers> How many drives, PCI or PCI-E and what PSU?
<daftykins> PCI-E, pretty darn new Corsair AX750, PCI-E x4 controller
<daftykins> actually, 8x card in a 4x slot
<daubers> how many drives are you running?
<daftykins> 6
<daftykins> verify ops check out fine
<daubers> Windows install is all ok? No media errors on whatever it's installed on?
<daubers> Oh, what drives?
<daftykins> probably. OS is on its' own disk and seems ok
<daftykins> er 5 x WD1000FYPS and 1 x WD2002<something here> due to RMA
<daubers> Western Digis????
<daftykins> yish
<MartijnVdS> :( WD
<daftykins> WD are fiiiiine
<daubers> hmmm.... rather you than me...
<daftykins> have had a couple of deaths :)
<daftykins> very far spaced out though
<daftykins> one when this array was new, in 2008
<daftykins> and another hmm... last year
<bootinfdsds> Wow .. just looking at the past hour .. UFO's entered the log and then it all gone abit stratospheric.
<daubers> We found that western digi's tended to occasionally wipe out whole arrays
<daftykins> even when only with their own exact kind?
<daubers> Yup
<daubers> so each disk is 7.4W peak so 45W for the disks
<daftykins> power's never gonna be an issue on that box
<daftykins> 125W draw according to the UPS :)
<daubers> daftykins: That's a mantra I've heard a few times :)
<daftykins> amusingly a while back i went to do some maintenance on said box
<daftykins> switched it off - never came back again :D
<MartijnVdS> daubers: so.. always overspec power massively?
<daftykins> had to buy a new PSU then and there
<daubers> HDD's run off the 12v rail don't they
 * daubers always forget
<MartijnVdS> sata is 5+3.3 isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> or is it 12+3.3
<daubers> Your max output on the 3.3 Rail is 125W....
<MartijnVdS> daubers: SATA is 3.3, 5 AND 12V
<MartijnVdS> so it could be any
<MartijnVdS> or all
<daubers> or 3.3v and 5v rail
<daubers> page 7 http://www.corsair.com/en/media/cms/manual/49-000037_revAB_AXManual_Webversion.pdf as listed
<daubers> so it depends which rail is providing that 125W that the UPS is saying
<daubers> is that idle or in use?
<daftykins> er no that's the entire system draw
<daubers> Yes :) But when you get close to a rail's limit things get uppity sometimes.
<daftykins> still not quite sure where the leap to rails came from but righty-o ;)
<MartijnVdS> leap rails.. now there's a concept
<daubers> If it's 20 watts on the 12v rail and 105W on the 3.3v and 5v rail then I'd expect the PSU to get grumpy when the things are being abused
<daftykins> i've got 500GB left on this 5TB array, don't think i can be bothered to buy another set of disks and upgrade any time soon
<daftykins> plus the 3ware can't do more than 2TB disks anyway
<daubers> however, 3ware RAID cards are a law unto nuggun in themselves
<daubers> I have 3 in a cupboard gathering dust as their all as bad as each other
<daftykins> got a new favourite?
<daubers> We still use Areca cards
<daubers> What does the machine do?
<daftykins> ah i told a lie, i'm at 108W idle atm
<daubers> Ah. PSU might be ok then.
<daftykins> run two VMs, idle, file serve...
<daubers> I'd suspect the cards :)
<daftykins> good times \o/
<daubers> daftykins: In that case I'd look at adaptec cards, they have some nice "Use this SSD as block cache" things in them
<daubers> pricey though
<daftykins> i thought adaptec went the way of the dodo 0o
<daubers> http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/
<daubers> Nope :)
<daftykins> oddness, i read loads of articles about how their main shareholder had muscled in and wanted to dissolve the company
<daubers> Pretty good cards from the few I've dabbled with. Linux drivers are/where a bit pants, and configuring the thing in linux is like building a house out of peas
<daftykins> hmm are we still at 3TB the largest disk
<daubers> You can get 4TB drives. They're a bit weird in performance terms though
<daftykins> ah no 4TB from Hitachi
<daubers> No idea how reliable they are as we can't certify them until we've sussed the performance
<daftykins> been a bit erratic?
<daubers> No... just weird
<daubers> We normally see high end streaming increase, but with the 4TB drives they're improving performance at the bottom end (ioppy stuff) but the top end is suffering
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> how odd
<daubers> Looks like they'd been optimised for file serving too much
<daubers> not a problem in your environment however :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> good ol' storage
<daftykins> can almost put all my stuff on a single disk now
<daubers> ....... a risk taker I see
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> not really
<daubers> :)
<daftykins> not since i have a grand of 1TB RAID edition ones, for the lengthy warranty
<daftykins> just had enough of replacing it all every 4-5 years
<daftykins> costly exercise
<daftykins> i don't really hoard as much as i used to now either
<daubers> yeah. HDD prices are starting to normalise a bit now
<daftykins> ebuyer got rid of their remove-VAT button >_<
<daubers> daftykins: Does the RAID you have problems with go to sleep and then spin back up again when it's not busy?
<daubers> Also WD data sheets suck
<daubers> Where the hell is the spin-up power requirement?
<shauno> people actually pay attention to inrush?  how many you stacking?
<daubers> Gave up with WD when I asked one of their support guys about that and got the response of "*snort* /Our/ drives don't need to spin up, they're green don't you know"
<daubers> shauno: I have a box at work with 32 Hitachi 3TB drives in it.. that _has_ to spin each drive up individually with a wait time between them, or the box get's sad
<shauno> ah
<shauno> I work with UPSes .. way too used to phantom overloads when machines blow past their spec on inrush current
<daftykins> daubers: nah i consider that a bad move for reliability
<daftykins> pretty much all controllers i've seen use staggered spin-up
<daubers> daftykins: Turn it off and watch the fireworks :)
<daftykins> ?
<daubers> I turned off staggered spinups to test a cheap UPS someone asked me about. Needless to say it got RMA'd :)
<daftykins> hahaha
<daubers> Yes spin up 128 disks ALL AT ONCE!
<daftykins> i'd have thought the PSU would do something before a UPS
<daubers> 4 chassis :)
<daftykins> ooh
 * daubers heads to bed
<daftykins> daubers: same, cheers for your input o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-09
<bootlfdhfrsa> mornin' All .. Sun just came up ... lovely and Cold out there !  .. better put heating on this morning ... Make a note to turn it off before work though !
<christel> morning
<czajkowski> bleugh
<Myrtti> yeah, something like that
<theopensourcerer> *!MORNING!*
<popey> *\o/*
<theopensourcerer> Moar coffee.
<theopensourcerer> This guy is NUTS!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19860249
<popey> http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/blackberry-playbook-tablet-pc-32gb-10647931-pdt.html
<popey> cheapo
<theopensourcerer> Blimey - that is cheap.
<popey> 16GB Nexus 7 is 190
<diplo> Morning
<diplo> Blimey that is cheap, did i read somewhere that they were going to get Android apps running on it as well ?
<gord> i could get one of them and it could sit in the closet next to my joggler
<diplo> hah
 * AlanBell wants a tablet that is known to run Ubuntu
<popey> :)
<gord> i want a tablet running the zx spectrum os, will a full keyboard and internal tape-deck
<gord> it would be awesome
<daubers> gord: Get some SD cards made up to look like tiny tapes?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<gord> daubers, how is that anywhere near as cool :(
<SuperMatt> all righty, if I want to talk quickly dev with people, which channel should I inhabit?
<diplo> SuperMatt: quickly ide ?
<diplo> thingy
<diplo> #quickly I think works, was on there a while ago myself
<SuperMatt> cool
<SuperMatt> unless anyone here know's the answer
<diplo> I'm a n00b myself at it, but might as well ask
<SuperMatt> I'm following jono's video tutorial, which is great, but I've just got to about 09:50 where he sets the label for his refresh button and I just can't set the label :(
<diplo> Got the link to the vid ?
<SuperMatt> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/
<SuperMatt> mine's just greyed out
<SuperMatt> I am doing this in quantal, if it makes a difference
<diplo> So add button is greyed out ?
<SuperMatt> no, I can add it, but I can't set the label
<SuperMatt> quite a lot of options are greyed out
<diplo> Just installing on my box now and see if it is, on;y have it installed at home
<SuperMatt> thanks
<diplo> 2 secs ( Im on precise, so at least we can see if it's an issue )
<SuperMatt> legendary
<diplo> Works fine for me, just set label test
<SuperMatt> must be a quantal thing :/
<diplo> I may have to have a play with quickly again now
<SuperMatt> hah
<diplo> I've got Quantal at home, will try it tonight
<SuperMatt> thanks, that'd be awesome if you could
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<Myrtti> I need more tea :-|
<SuperMatt> well, I've had to edit that UI file by hand
<SuperMatt> oh, well that doesn't help because the next step is changing the icon, which doesn't work either
<SuperMatt> maybe I should install a quantal vm
<SuperMatt> *precise
<diplo> I found you had to wait ages for any quickly peeps, lunch time was best i think as the US were waking up
<diplo> I guess I could run up a vm here at work and test
<SuperMatt> oh that would be kind :)
<popey> the main quickly person is didrocks, and he's based in .fr
<daubers> SuperMatt: does that video cover Gtk 3 or is it based on Gtk 2?
<SuperMatt> ooh, I don't know
<SuperMatt> it *looks* like the tutorial was designed for precise
<daubers> It is Gtk 3 :)
<SuperMatt> so that'd be gtk 3, surely?
<daubers> it's using gi.repository which is normally a good sign it's using Gtk3
<daubers> (from my very limited experience anyway)
<diplo> Quantal vm installing now
<SuperMatt> thanks diplo
<diplo> Anyone here use SME Server ?
<SuperMatt> not I
<diplo> It sucks soooooooooooooooo badly :)
<diplo> 3/4 installed now
<SuperMatt> awesome
<SuperMatt> by precise is almost ready
<SuperMatt> I have decided that precise is quantal's ugly sister
<diplo> I've got to say it is much more finished and faster etc
<gord> i wish life was a tv show, so we could quick cut to six months later where you guys are saying the same thing about 13.04 and how bad 12.10 is ;)
<diplo> Well tbh gord 12.04 really was a huge improvement over 11.04, but 12.10 should be what the LTS release was.
<diplo> It was sooooooooo slow
<chambs> Anyone have any idea of the location of the script which modifies /etc/motd when you ssh onto ubuntu server?
<diplo> ali1234: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-change-message-of-the-day-motd-in-ubuntu-server.html
<AlanBell> !info update-motd
<lubotu3> update-motd (source: update-motd): superceded by pam_motd in libpam-modules. In component main, is optional. Version 3.5-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 5 kB, installed size 56 kB
<chambs> (Think that was for me not ali but thanks!)
<diplo> lol it was, sorry chambs / ali1234  :)
<diplo> And so was AlanBell response chambs ( same thing )
<chambs> Yep I'll just tinker with things in /etc/update-motd.d
<chambs> Thanks all
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> ello davmor2
<chambs> Much better. Now I don't get a link to ubuntu landscape every time I log in ;P
<davmor2> morning diplo
<popey> chambs, i do "touch .hushlogin"
<popey> then it is nice and peaceful on sshing in
<chambs> popey, so it is!
<chambs> Thanks
<popey> bug 1064285 - AlanBell or davmor2 can you confirm that?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1064285 in shotwell (Ubuntu) "Triangles shrink when mouse over" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064285
<AlanBell> popey: nope, works for me
<popey> it works for me too, but i have little triangles
<AlanBell> I don't
<popey> only on mouse over
<AlanBell> nothing remarkable happens on mouseover
<AlanBell> I am unable to reproduce your screenshot
<popey> hmm
 * popey restarts
<davmor2> popey: I don't here either let me try a reboot and see if I get it then
<popey> bah, reboot and it's gone away
 * popey marks invalid
<diplo> SuperMatt: I can confirm on quantal it's disabled for me as well
<diplo> SuperMatt: If you click on Action related action and use action appearance it enables it
<diplo> AlanBell: Expensive PJ's!
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, they are
<SuperMatt> diplo: run me through that?
<SuperMatt> diplo: go it! Thanks!
<diplo> So on the action part of the tool bar editor
<SuperMatt> *got
<diplo> :)
<SuperMatt> I HAS A BUTTON
<diplo> Not played with it much as the vm is quite slow
<diplo> yay!
<SuperMatt> thanks muncly dude :)
<diplo> OK, my ask for help now :)
<SuperMatt> uh-oh!
<diplo> I asked this friday but my foo is failing me today
<diplo> I have 2 dirs with 300+ files int hem
<diplo> in them*
<diplo> they all start with sp10.000.randomnumber
<diplo> I want to compare the files to tell me which are different
<diplo> Should be the same output but i haver 304 in one dir and 307 in the other
<diplo> I think gord said use md5, I've tried but it says all files are different
<bigcalm> You can diff 2 directories
<diplo> yeah, but because the filenames are different between 2 dirs that's not working
<bigcalm> Oh
<diplo> Well I believe that is the issue
<bigcalm> Might have to script it
<shauno> what's the content of these files like?  any unique string you could pull out of each one?  (an accountid, name, etc)
<diplo> it's statements in plain text
<diplo> so yeah account numbers / addresses etc
<diplo> I can grab the files and bring locally if there is a gui app that's good as well
<SuperMatt> hmmm
<SuperMatt> do you want to just compare the contents?
<diplo> I just want to find which 3 files are different without going through 600+ files :)
<shauno> if they're not similar enough to match md5's, I'd try to awk an account number out of each one, pipe through sort so you have almost-identical lists, and then diff those two lists
<SuperMatt> cos you could do cat dir1/* > file1; cat dir2/* > file2; vimdiff file1 file2
<diplo> I've tried md5suming the files and then diffing that but that's not working
<davmor2> diplo: you can try beyond compare on the 2 files
<SuperMatt> what do the files contain?
<diplo> basic text displaying statement details, so account/address/and inv numbers etc
<SuperMatt> then my method should work
<diplo> davmor2: will look, will try SuperMatt's first
<diplo> ta
<SuperMatt> it won't tell you which files are different, but it'll tell you what differences there are between them
<Laney> ah
<Laney> fitted a non-shitty 2.5"-3.5" adapter for the SSD
<Laney> no longer is it hangin' loose inside my case
<davmor2> diplo: there is meld diff viewer too iirc
 * popey hangs loose
<shauno> only thing I'd watch for with cat dir1/* is that most shells return the glob as sorted, so the random numbers will jumble the order.  you might want to loop through $(ls -U) instead so they're cat'd in the order they were created  (which I assume will be closer to natural, assuming they were created with a mostly-similar method)
 * theopensourcerer loves meld. It is full of awsomeness
<diplo> shauno: Sounds like I may have to as it's saying all different
<diplo> :/
<Laney> :(
<Laney> why do lastpass link to some hateful script instead of the chrome web store
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/ quite a few people coming to the release party now
<gord> .. 2006?
<shauno> it's just incremental, not a date :p
<gord> oh okay :P
<Laney> silly london
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod hello
<davmor2> christel: hello
<christel> hihi davmor2
<czajkowski> ello
<davmor2> AlanBell: Hey dude wasn't the city bar used for the release party before?
<Dave2> All of the Cs.
<AlanBell> davmor2 err, maybe, why?
<davmor2> I had a memory of it being there before and everyone clearing off else where cause it was cheaper :D  but I could be wrong
<davmor2> AlanBell: ^
<AlanBell> well this isn't there
<AlanBell> this is at the George
<davmor2> AlanBell: ah maybe I got the wrong release party page from a link
<AlanBell> there was one in a dark and small wine bar in westminster
<mungojerry> hmm alt-tab in gnome shell seems "broken" in that it doesn't switch back to the previous app
<czajkowski> aquarius: all recovered :)
<aquarius> just about. :)
<livingdaylight> to all pangolin lovers http://tinyurl.com/8fdptwr
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: that's a lovely pangolin (full URL is https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151058216545658&set=a.10150523921480658.372668.270212045657&type=1&theater )
<Sintex> hey?
<dwatkins> hey?
<mattt> OHAAAAAAI
<davmor2> mattt: is obviously by the landing site of a large pod that has come from mars
<davmor2> oh no that oooooooooooooooooolllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<DJones> Heh, had to laugh at this http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308574_324291280918787_1961835811_n.jpg
<Azelphur> anyone know what the deal is with hdmi 1.3 / 1.5 cables?
<Azelphur> sorry, 1.3 / 1.4
<diplo> In what way ?
<Azelphur> mostly in a "will a 1.4 cable work with my laptop if it's 1.3"
<diplo> Yep afaik
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> found a 1.5m 1.4 cable for Â£5 with free delivery, sounds like that'll do me nicely
<diplo> I'll get proof first :) but I'm sure they are
<diplo> OK, no reputable sources, but everything I've read agrees with me :)
<Azelphur> same
<diplo> I'm 90% sure
<AlanBell> Bug #1061229 is critical \o/
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1061229 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt-Tab - alt+grave (key above tab) takes you back to where you started, not to the next window" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061229
<directhex> you cannot call a cable a 1.3 cable or 1.4 cable
<directhex> it's a requirement of hdmi logo certification
<directhex> short version: yeah, the cables have never changed, really
<directhex> you've got four types of cable, you only need to care about one of those
<diplo> Pretty much how I understood it, just added higher resolution, proper hd 3d support and some other stuff that I can't do off the top of my head
<directhex> "standard", "standard with ethernet", "high speed", and "high speed with ethernet"
<directhex> every single feature you need is covered by "high speed"
<MartijnVdS> directhex: then there's the "mini" connector..
<directhex> and i don't think "standard" have been sold for yonks
<directhex> MartijnVdS: yeah, talking about the cabling itself
<directhex> if it says it can do 1080p, then it's high speed. if it's high speed, it can do everything else too - 4k, 3d, etc
<MartijnVdS> I have an "HDMI splitter box" that can only do "low refresh rate" 1080p
<MartijnVdS> 25-30fps
<MartijnVdS> Hz
<MartijnVdS> in short, hdmi is weird :)
<directhex> yeah, talking about cables here ;)
<MartijnVdS> We have a "cheap cables" web store in .nl
<MartijnVdS> â¬4 HDMI cables \o/
<MartijnVdS> instead of the extortionate â¬50 you pay in stores
<dwatkins> people actually pay that for HDMI cables?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: if you just bought a shiny new 3D TV and blu-ray player, but don't have cables, AND don't want to wait 3 days for it to arrive in the mail
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea I just paid Â£4.99 for a 1.5m hdmi 1.4 cable
<dwatkins> ah ok, I can understand paying over the odds to get it quickly (although the local 24 hour Tesco has them in stock)
<Azelphur> free next day delivery too, can't complain
<MartijnVdS> some people even fall for the "audiophile" ones ("copper with argon bubbles and a silver coating and gold contacts")
<dwatkins> haha
<MartijnVdS> because it's BETTER
<Azelphur> I could have got it for like Â£1 but I don't wanna wait
<dwatkins> I can understand a slightly better built connector and a thicker cable so it doesn't bend too much with frequent reconnection, but that's about it
 * MartijnVdS has a Zoom H1 mic
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: how often do you reconnect though
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^ H1 mic = cool :)
<popey> me too!
<popey> picks up hand noise when holding it though
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I got the "accessory pack" with it
<MartijnVdS> with a small tripod and an afro^Wwind screen
<MartijnVdS> popey: I also made my Canon 50D do video (it's not supposed to, yay MagicLantern ;))
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: quite frequently at the moment, as I havn't yet spent 50 GBP on a HDMI switch box.
<daftykins> my old school TV with its' one HDMI drove me mad
<daftykins> last Christmas i gave myself a Denon AV receiver and 5.1 speaker set ^_^
<brobostigon> this prog on bbc3 makes me laugh, how they came to make it.
<MartijnVdS> why would you go to the US to _disprove_ creationism?
<daftykins> for the crack?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: exactly, but just because there is such an extreme public view of it.
<MartijnVdS> haha.. how to annoy McDonald's employees http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNTSugyS038&feature=youtu.be
<czajkowski> http://hackntalk.org/hello-world/  say hello to my new pet project
<kjalil> hey has anyone ever reported audio problems when playing flash that can be fixed by doing 'pulseaudio --kill'?
<kjalil> I keep having audio issues even on a fresh PC startup and that fixes it
<MartijnVdS> don't use flash ;)
<kjalil> awesome :-) next...
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: poor McDonalds ;)
<daftykins> in the US, just speaking in my Guernsey accent was enough to get orders confused \o/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you're missing
<diplo> evening all
<diplo> Anyone remind of the package for joining images together to make 1 out of 3
<diplo> Got a big school photo of one of my boys but needed to be scanned 3 times to get it copied
<Darael> Hugin?
<Darael> That's what comes up if I axi-cache search stitch
<Darael> diplo: ^
<diplo> hugin, that's it
<diplo> thanks
<Darael> There's also the pandora package, which is a GIMP plugin, apparently.  Both hugin and it are aimed at panoramas, but they should work just as well for stitching scans.
<diplo> Sorry was looking on other screen
<Darael> No worries, I just thought I'd make sure of the highlight.
<diplo> Now to see if I have the images somewhere on this machine :)
<diplo> Nope, ok.. tomorrows job :)
<gebbione> is there a freenode channel for .net?
<AlanBell> gebbione: you could ask the alis bot
<AlanBell> gebbione: /msg alis list *.net
<AlanBell> seems to be ##asp.net                                           86 :[##ASP.NET] Read Guidelines @ http://aspdotnet.supertechhelp.com - Entity Framework: #entityframework  Winforms: ##vb.net or ##csharp -  WPF/Silverlight/Metro: ##xaml - WCF: ##WCF
<Darael> There'll be mono channels, too, which are /related/.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-10
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<diplo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
 * daubers is having many eye problems this mornin
<daubers> g
<diplo> And typing...
<diplo> :P
<czajkowski> everyone see my new pet project :) hackntalk.org/hello-world/
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<daubers> czajkowski: Interesting....... London based I assume?
<czajkowski> daubers: anywhere I cna find a venue
<czajkowski> I'm not fixed in London
<czajkowski> as long as I can get to it to oversee it
<czajkowski> I'm flexible :)
<daubers> So somewhere on a direct train route from London then :p
<daubers> czajkowski: Instant venue option.... since what you're talking about is a bit like hackspace open evenings (with the addition of a talk), ask the hackspaces for space :)
<mattt> yeah
<mattt> interesting, but kinda vague :)
<czajkowski> daubers: nice idea
<daubers> czajkowski: I'll chuck it out to the people at Reading this evening
<czajkowski> daubers: thanks
<czajkowski> just need it for one sautday 10-4/5
<mattt> daubers: rdggeek was last night :(
<czajkowski> 2 rooms ideally
<czajkowski> one room for talks
<czajkowski> 1 room for demo/hacking on stuff
<czajkowski> or showing things off which is also a demo but you know what I mean
<czajkowski> :)
<daubers> mattt: I can't do that one, too much going on. Always try to get to the hackspace on a wednesday evening
<daubers> czajkowski: Indeed! Reading hackspace is a bit small for that, but there are options. I'd suspect Bristol/London/Nottingham would be quite interested though
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> but you get the idea
<czajkowski> if you miss one
<czajkowski> you cna cathc another on 4 months later
<czajkowski> and not fel you have to wait a year :)
<daubers> Yup.
<mattt> the #rdggeek space isn't too bad
<daubers> Copa?
<mattt> they end up using the whole basement floor on a tuesday evening
<mattt> yep
<mattt> but i doubt you could get that for a while saturday :)
<bootlfdhfrsa> Just in case Anyone wants a good book :: http://mad.ly/04f523?pact=12145030818&fe=1 HumbleIndieBundle
<bootlfdhfrsa> AlanBell, Just wondering what was the wisdom behind your post on G+ this morning ... ??
<bootlfdhfrsa> Oh, I see now .. I responded to your Post.
<SuperMatt> only 8 days till quantal!
<SuperMatt> I hope my t-shirt arrives before then
<mattt> SuperMatt: i can make you a tshirt
<mattt> SuperMatt: 1/2 price
<SuperMatt> I can make my own t-shirt
 * SuperMatt strokes his sewing machine
<mattt> :)
 * mattt has memories of the 'wan buy dvd' fonejacker skit
<SuperMatt> I have never watched fonejacker
<mattt> it's not really worth it
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<mattt> there are a handful of calls that are hilarious, the rest are rubbish
<SuperMatt> I shan't bother with it
<mattt> SuperMatt: this one's funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwwTFElMX7w
<mattt> SuperMatt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe3cqLPhN-I
<SuperMatt> I might have to watch those later, my boss just came in
<gord> \o/ working from home, all the youtubes you can eat
<mattt> gord: i'd be eating more than just youtube at home
 * mattt would be triple x
<SuperMatt> I *could* work from home
<SuperMatt> maybe I need to set up some kind of vpn from my office to home
<SuperMatt> my ip address always changes though :(
<bootlfdhfrsa> AlanBell, You must be away from keyboard.
<AlanBell> why is that then?
<Myrtti> $timeofday
<Myrtti> ho-hum
<bootlfdhfrsa> AlanBell, Oh maybe you there.. I'm still discussing my earlier posts on goole plus .. see 09:43AM
<bootlfdhfrsa> We're just wondering if the same thing could be done for the likes of the book that the Ubuntu Dev Team introduced to me this summer ( debian adminstrators handbook ) [ http://debian-handbook.info/ }
<davmor2> morning all
 * AlanBell has a new toy
<AlanBell> motorised webcam \o/
<kirrus> AlanBell: so.. are you gunna give us all access? ;)
<AlanBell> sure :)
<kirrus> \o/
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:8080/index1.htm
<AlanBell> operator/operator to control it
<AlanBell> might have to enter it a few times, the admin interface is a bit rubbish
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk/ view only mjpeg stream here
<kirrus> awesome
<kirrus> Well.. the controls don't work
<kirrus> ;)
<kirrus> At least for me!
<kirrus> enough play time .. looks neat though
<AlanBell> controls are a bit rubish over the WAN
<kirrus> gunna see if you can put a better control interface on?
<AlanBell> yeah, might do
<AlanBell> I have been looking at the javascript from the UI, it kind of reloads a page on mousedown and mouseup which means it is rubbish for high latency
<AlanBell> and the video stream is mjpeg which is a bit rubish for streaming, so I might use VLC to transcode it to something else
 * AlanBell has sriracha in mushroom soup for lunch
<diplo> Attention: Propose using 1024 * 768 screen resolution
<diplo> :D
<AlanBell> yeah!
<diplo> How very early 00's
<AlanBell> for Â£35 I am not going to complain about a bit of chinglish in the UI
 * diplo gives up on trying to log in
<diplo> I re-wrote front ends for Axis network cameras
<diplo> into our company specific one
<AlanBell> the mjpeg stream is behind basic auth so I can put http://guest:guest@mumble.libertus.co.uk:8080/videostream.cgi in an img tag to just have it display
<diplo> yeah I did that on ours
<Dave2> IT'S AM EMPTY CHAIR
<AlanBell> I forwarded the port via SSH to our server in Germany
<diplo> Most of ours were really quite old, but I had 36 cameras attached to a nas storing jpgs/mpegs
<diplo> and scripts to convert jpgs to avi's if needed
<davmor2> AlanBell: failed: exceed max clients. I'm amazed at how popular your new gadget has become :D
<diplo> I want two network cameras for my network at home
<diplo> front/read doors
<AlanBell> davmor2: well I am tempted to write something to control it better and stream it better that should not have any limits
<Dave2> no no, no no no no, no no no no, no no there's no limit
<diplo> Got a link to the camera AlanBell, got me interested :)
<AlanBell> also need to get it battery powered so I can put it in the chicken house
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00432J56G
<diplo> ta
<AlanBell> found it using the shopping lens :)
<diplo> hah
<Dave2> is it R2D2?
<diplo> ooh, defo interested now.. wireless and night vision
<Dave2> You can control it anythere in the world.
<diplo> hardest part would be getting power to them for me.
<Dave2> "Spy Night Vision Girl Goggles"
<Dave2> I think them being bright pink somewhat detracts from that
<diplo> Dave2: Search for a axis network camera string in google, you can find 100's not set up correctly
<Dave2> yeah
<Dave2> it was more the "anythere"
<Dave2> wait what, since when has Amazon done ads on other sites
<arsen> has anyone ever developed a 'top'-like app to display various other information related to say.. my own application monitoring etc?
<bigcalm> GAH!
<bigcalm> I'm having an argument on the internet. I should be locked up for my own good
<kirrus> arsen: theres like.. mytop and varnishtop
<christel> hahaha
<bigcalm> Ello christel my dear :)
<christel> hi hi bigarguementative
<bigcalm> :P
<arsen> ok kirrus - ill google them, thanks :)
<bigcalm> Am I going to have to put that in my highlight list now?
<arsen> i just want a framework for developing a tool monitoring various key server stats/logs/etc
<daubers> arsen: You want cacti or something like that then
<daubers> (or just make it from scratch (tm))
<arsen> yeah we already employ zabbix
<arsen> but im more interested in a live view on-host
<arsen> not that zabbix is great, but zabbix/cacti/nagios style monitoring is too slow for this purpose.
<directhex> iotop!
<directhex> nettop!
<arsen> yeah but .. i want to do my own one :D
<arsen> pulling in a combo of stuff, in one display.
<arsen> namely tail a few logs, or even a 'watch -n1 wc -l' type thing, combined with top for certain processes, a multicast monitoring system etcetc
<arsen> with colours and ASCII art. :D
<arsen> ^ optional.
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NrlIK_ArzeM
<diplo> evening all
<geekmeplease> Anyone here ever installed Matplotlib to OSX?
<geekmeplease> See http://dpaste.com/812055/
<MartijnVdS> While Ubuntu might look like OS X, it's not OS X :)
<geekmeplease> MartijnVdS: Yes, I know, but I normally use Ubuntu, but I have now only OSX.
<geekmeplease> * it is difficult for me to think in OSX
<MartijnVdS> osxese
<MartijnVdS> installing on OSX is either drag & drop from a .dmg into your "Applications" folder
<MartijnVdS> or a double-click in the same .dmg to start an installer that does that for you
<geekmeplease> Yes, but not when installing Matplotlib
<geekmeplease> it is like in Ubuntu, but need to everything yourself
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> macports? or whatever it's called these days
<mgdm> go and look at either Homebrew or Macports instead?
<MartijnVdS> that's what you're looking for, I think
<mgdm> I prefer homebrew, personallu
<geekmeplease> mgdm: Does not look promising: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12363557/matplotlib-install-failure-on-mac-osx-10-8-mountain-lion
<geekmeplease> They have same problems in all those tools
<mgdm> well, there's a sample size of one
<geekmeplease> ok, I will try it
<geekmeplease> I will just download the binaries and make and install it - a lot easier.
<geekmeplease> * ok, no such process exists, and python setup.py install uses the same procedure as the first one
<shauno> any suggestions for a more efficient alternative to dd?  (I want to dump a full disk, including boot block, fs labels, etc.  but it's a 40GB disk with 1GB of data, so it seems silly to dump 39GB of slack)
<directhex> dump it where?
<shauno> hopefully a different disk on the same system, but netcat as an alternative
<shauno> (I'm not booted from the disk I'm trying to copy)
<directhex> you could use http://www.bouncybouncy.net/programs/blocksync.py with a sparse 20G file as the target
<shauno> just an awkward machine.  usb1 & 10meg ether, so trying to avoid moving all 40GB if I can
<directhex> er, sparse 40G file as target
<directhex> the point is it does a blockwise copy but md5sums at both ends to see if the data is the same or not and only copies if needed
<MartijnVdS> isn't that like rsync?
<ali1234> doesn't rsync only do whole files?
<directhex> rsync isn't blockwise though, this is for shuffling lvm volumes around
<ali1234> thing is
<ali1234> dd | gzip would probably be just as efficient, if you just want to skip zeros
<MartijnVdS> ah
<ali1234> because you have to read it to know it's zeros
<shauno> it's a 10yo disk, I can't promise slack space is zero'd
<ali1234> hmm so you need something filesystem-aware?
<shauno> it would be handy.  I'm considering just tar & gz and recreating the target volumes by hand  (I just need to match UUID & label, nothing fancy)
<ali1234> i don't know of anything unfortunately
<shauno> I think I'll just try gzip and find a movie to watch then
<shauno> trying to move some redhat6 boxes into VMs while they're still bootable.  great fun
<shauno> looks like the disk is going to end up being the bottleneck.  getting 500kB/s.  oh well.  I have until Monday :)
<AlanBell> anyone know how to restream an mjpeg stream with ffmpeg
<mgdm> 'restream' in what sense?
<mgdm> as in play it out again over the network?
<AlanBell> well I have an mjpeg stream from an IP camera
<AlanBell> I want to restream that in a lighter format so that it can keep up
<MartijnVdS> don't mjpeg cams just drop frames if you happen to be on a slow link?
<mgdm> not sure about ffmpeg - you could look into mjpeg_streamer maybe, though
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk/
<AlanBell> that is the camera in night vision mode
<AlanBell> it seems better now than it was earlier, it was just getting behind
<MartijnVdS> can't it do h.264?
<MartijnVdS> what kind of camera is it? (brand/model)
<AlanBell> http://www.rewont.com/web/enProductshow-51.html tenvis  JPT3815w
<AlanBell> the night vision thing is really good
<AlanBell> and the firmware upload format is kind of simple, might be able to hack my own web interface onto it
<popey> ooh thats good
<popey> AlanBell, where did you get it? which specific one?
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00432J56G
<dwatkins> AlanBell: how much upload bandwidth do you have?
<dwatkins> I ask because I have about 1 MBit and I'm wondering if I could stream something like a camera or not.
<AlanBell> dwatkins: about 16mbit
<AlanBell> but that is going over SSH to Germany and back
<AlanBell> just cutting out that link at the moment
<dwatkins> AlanBell: oh wow, quite a bit more than my home internet upload bandwidth :)
<dwatkins> I'd like to do timelapse videos as well, but I'm guessing that's easy enough with wget and ffmpeg
<chambs> Is anyone else unable to change to a custom colour scheme in gnome-terminal in 12.10b2?
<chambs> I can select it from the dropdown, but none of the colours I've selected show up
<chambs> Changes I make in gconf-editor also don't seem to have any effect
<chambs> Ah ignore all that - fixed it
<chambs> Can't do without zenburn :)
<jonathonf> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/questions
<jonathonf> hmph
<popey> jonathonf, i think you're some way off with your G+ post
<jonathonf> "tell us what you think is important and weâll put your cash towards improving your favourite features"
<jonathonf> i may be misreading that, but it seems as though feedback counts when it comes with money
<popey> you are
<jonathonf> so why not just a donate button?
<jonathonf> donate if you want, vote if you want
<AlanBell> top tip, get the default gateway setting right on devices you want to port forward through your router
 * AlanBell wonders if canonical will provide a VAT receipt for these payments
<jonathonf> ok, well, i can't say anything else without sounding a bit snarky (phrasing a criticism is difficult) so i'll just point out i don't think it looks good; it seems as though it's prioritising the needs of people with money which isn't what Ubuntu was supposed to be about.
<ali1234> i like having a choice
<ali1234> linux is all about choice you know
<ali1234> my question is will canonical produce a report on where the money went, like wikipedia does, for example?
<czajkowski> jonathonf: no it's a case of if folks want to donate great, and if you cant that's also fine
<czajkowski> ali1234: yes I think there will be, how frequent or when I dn't know
<czajkowski> *don't
<ali1234> cool
 * czajkowski goes back to sleep
<AlanBell> is the Ubuntu Foundation involved in it?
<christel> the donate button doesnt work!
<christel> :o
<czajkowski> unsure tbh. I thought it was Canonical doing it
<czajkowski> perhaps jono would know ali1234
<czajkowski> AlanBell^
<jonathonf> oh it's being updated
<jonathonf> THANK YOU!
<jonathonf> "Or, alternatively, help out in the bug tracker ;)"
<jonathonf> _that's_ what it needs
<ali1234> so as a unity hater, do i donate to the desktop in the hopes it will get fixed, or do i donate nothing to it in the knowledge that it will just fund further disimprovements?
<jonathonf> wait... it's a random title.. bah
<ali1234> also, you need to get google checkout because i'm not touching paypal
<AlanBell> !dvd
<lubotu3> Ubuntu's default installation and repositories do not include packages needed to play commercial DVDs for legal reasons. For information on adding them, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs | For information on the legalities involved, see the "DVD" section of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<popey> AlanBell, no
<popey> ali1234, yes, I already asked if they would add more payment providers
<jonathonf> ali1234: i guess that could go under "better coordination with Debian and upstreams" ?
<ali1234> jonathonf: nah, "better support for flavours" would be my choice, except that gnome isn't listed
<ali1234> and if it was no doubt it would be gnome shell
<ali1234> i heard that the gnome classic in ubuntu 12.04 is actually quite different to the upstream one
<popey> i cant see gnome shell getting any love
<ali1234> so i wonder who is maintaining that
<jonathonf> ali1234: i switched from gnome-shell to cinnamon and haven't looked back
<ali1234> cinnamon is gnome shell
<ali1234> it has all the same problems
<jonathonf> have to admit 1.6 is working well for me - what sort of problems?
<ali1234> rubbish multimonitor support
<jonathonf> how so rubbish? (not doubting you, wanting to know ;)
<ali1234> can you put a panel on the second monitor?
<ali1234> can you have multiple workspaces on the second monitor?
<ali1234> can you even move the panels at all?
<ali1234> can you use indicators with it? gnome terrible without them
<jonathonf> 1) not a separate panel, but you can stretch them across both
<ali1234> stretching them won't work, my monitors are different sizes
<jonathonf> 2) Almost. There seems to be a bug with Expo
<jonathonf> 2) cont. but it mostly works as multiple desktops
<jonathonf> 3) top or bottom or both. not sides which is a bit limiting
<jonathonf> 4) indicators, yes. full notification support.
<ali1234> notifications aren't the same as indicators
<jonathonf> indicators as in the new system tray whatsit?
<ali1234> indicator-applet-complete
<AlanBell> it is the new standard
<AlanBell> now we have two standards \o/
<ali1234> yes, but the old one is so bad that nobody should ever use it
<ali1234> can i have a clock and a start menu and a "tray" on both monitors, without everything shuffling around all the time?
<ali1234> oh and a volume control and messaging widget and networking widget
<jonathonf> hmm... i thought i had an indicator-applet but maybe i don't...
<ali1234> most of that simply doesn't work in vanilla gnome, in 2 because their whole applet system is broken for multimonitor and in shell because they've just given up on multimonitor and you can't have any panels or widgets on the second monitor at all
<ali1234> but indicators fixed all that
<shauno> if anyone's curious, a tool named 'zerofree' saved the day.  zeroes unused blocks on ext2/3, so I got the 40GB disk down to a 1.1GB gzip
<ali1234> shauno: nice one. i was going to suggest just filling unused space with cat /dev/zero > filler but i figured hat would take just as long as cloning the full disk
<jonathonf> shauno: if that's a vm disk image there's an application CloneVDI (free, runs in WINE) that will do the same as zerofree but also works for NTFS/FAT
<shauno> zerofree took 12 minutes, then about 30 for dd|gzip.  before zerofree, it was looking closer to 25 hours (they're very underpowered machines, 700MHz VIA)
<shauno> jonathonf: they're not yet, but should be by the end of the night :)
<ali1234> jonathonf: this is what my desktop looks like https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/82D6UjGZh6L
<ali1234> most of the things i like about it can't be reproduced in any other desktop
<ali1234> the theme is ubuntu, the indicators are ubuntu...
<popey> retro
<ali1234> yes, it's still the best desktop i've ever used
<ali1234> no other distro ever polished anything up this good
<ali1234> popey: look, i was even considering making a tutorial video on how i did it back then...
<ali1234> i should do it
<popey> :)
<popey> you should
<ali1234> though the multimonitor stuff is kind of hard to do in a video
<ali1234> the tricky part was recording the login screen
<ali1234> someone asked a question about screenshotting the login screen recently, but not video
<AlanBell> tripod+camera
<ali1234> i've done it before, but it always sucks
<ali1234> i could just edit it in
<ali1234> or fake it with a vm
<ali1234> or buy a HD capture card
<popey> i have one of them
<popey> black magick thing
<ali1234> internal or external?
<popey> both
<ali1234> theinternal one has a usb port on the inside
<popey> external usb vga capture
<popey> and internal pcie one
<ali1234> what's the usb port for?
<popey> didnt know it had one
<ali1234> http://www.jigsaw24.com/product-details/x627ana
<ali1234> top left corner
<ali1234> mini usb
<popey> no idea
 * popey gets it out of the box
<ali1234> i would guess usermode firmware flashing
<popey> " This port is for internal programming and will not be used by the customer in most cases."
<ali1234> right-o
<AlanBell> ooh
<popey> we have used these to do some of the ubuntu promo videos
<ali1234> what software does it use?
<ali1234> v4l2?
<popey> their own
<popey> they have a kernel driver
<ali1234> hmm
<popey> and I think you can hook up to it with other apps like vlc
<ali1234> that goes for both versions?
<popey> but they ship their own desktop tool
<popey> the external one I have isnt black magic
<ali1234> ah ok
<popey> http://www.epiphan.com/products/frame-grabbers/vga2usb/
<popey> one of them
<ali1234> i wouldn't really trust USB tbh... it would have to compress it a lot
<ali1234> so i'd get the pci-e one anyway... but then i have to have another desktop PC
<ali1234> not a laptop for example... but then a laptop probably couldn't handle the bandwidth anyway
<ali1234> not any of mine at least
<popey> any of you using thunderbird can you go to Tools -> Import and see if you can import mail?
<popey> I get a blank screen in there making it impossible
<ali1234> wfm, on 12.04
<popey> what do you see after the "please select the type of file that you would like to import" screen?
<ali1234> file?
<popey> hmm, wonder what populates that
<popey> its blank
<ali1234> i see "seamonkey 2 or later"
<popey> http://imgur.com/KfqWS
<ali1234> http://i.imm.io/Hr0Y.png
<ali1234> that's the first thing i see
<popey> click mail
<ali1234> ah yeah, blank
<ali1234> presumably it wants a unix mailbox?
<ali1234> or... i dunno
<popey> yeah, I've used it in the long past
<ali1234> http://i.imm.io/Hr42.png
<ali1234> this is why i don't use thunderbird
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> it's not even correct
<ali1234> i only have about 40000 unread emails
<ali1234> it must be counting dupes where a message has two labels
<Darael> In fairness to it, I've not encountered another client that correctly handled GMail labels over IMAP.
<ali1234> i have. the mail app on android and the mail app on symbian
<ali1234> both do a better job than thunderbird
<ali1234> thunderbird is mostly ok though, after the initial 16 hour sync
<Darael> Somewhat amusing, really, that mobile clients can do a better job of understanding labels than desktop ones.
<ali1234> well the nokia/symbian one goes through a proxy
<popey> Azelphur / directhex you on the steam beta?
<Darael> And the Android GMail app isn't designed for arbitrary IMAP accounts, just GMail ones.  Unless th'art talking about some specific vendor one?
<Azelphur> popey: it isn't out yet
<Azelphur> they only have a private internal thing, no public members have it yet afaik
<directhex> popey: :o no :(
<popey> :(
<directhex> popey: the steam beta is open now then?
<popey> dunno, i thought some people were signed up
<ali1234> hey does 12.04 server usually have a fancy coloured shell prompt?
<Darael> Mine does, but I've deliberately got it set up that way, partly so I can tell I'm in zsh rather than bash.  My Precise server's bash prompt is without colour.
<ali1234> probably a customization the hosts have done
<ali1234> Darael: btw this might not have come through. i was talking about the gmail app but android 4.0 has a generic "email" app. it looks very similar to the gmail one.
<ali1234> with the logos removed
<ali1234> at least, cyanogen has it
<ali1234> i didn't actually try it though
<Darael> ali1234: Ah.  I've seen several vendor-specific ones but I've not played with ICS, cyanogen or otherwise.  Most of the vendor-produced ones follow the GMail one's style, which can be confusing...
<ali1234> hmm thunderbird just said i have 170000 unread emails now
<shauno> this VM migration isn't going so well :/  the resulting .vmdk doesn't have labels on the filesystems (and appears more partitions than the original)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-11
<popey> morning
<daubers> o/
<christel> http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2012/oct/10/london-lidoline-commuters-swim-work-canal :o
<christel> (morning)
<daubers> \o/ second ADSL line is going into the office soon :D
<Myrtti> mÃ¶h
<daubers> also OpenShot sucks
<diplo> morning all
<popey> http://taskumuro.com/artikkelit/nokia-meegon-tarina,10 is interesting
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<czajkowski> aloha
<gord> realised i may have invented windows 8 accidently a year ago, didn't know microsoft designers were watching my feed! https://plus.google.com/112811220238447511854/posts/PLnsQAL2JYq
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't pretend to understand the technicalities of this but does this mean we're all (any Linux) good to go now? http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/10/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-system-open-source
<popey> there are other linuxes?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Yes there are. And some even do not have built-in shopping facilities ;-)
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: There was another method being implimented by mjg (I think) that had a small bootloader that could then be used as a second trust keyset or something
<AlanBell> isn't that the Ubuntu plan version 1?
<daubers> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/17542.html <- Saw that idea not long ago
<SuperMatt> Reading the /. artible about the donations page, and a lot of people are saying things like "why would anyone donate to ubuntu when they don't listen to their users?"
<daubers> Ah the old "Well I wouldn't do it, so that means no-one wants to do it" fallacy
<SuperMatt> indeed
<AlanBell> they listen to the users they want to acquire
<SuperMatt> yeah, I think canonical do more listening because they ACTUALLY BRING PEOPLE IN TO DO TESTING
<SuperMatt> rather than make their own thing and tell everyone else to edit the source
<AlanBell> which appears to be people they found in a Starbucks near the Apple store
<gord> they have to have a scarf and hipster glasses or we don't let them in
<daubers> AlanBell: Is that sabdfl's super secret lair?
 * AlanBell has ordered 250 Ubuntu Desktop DVDs and 50 Ubuntu server CDs
<AlanBell> didn't even ask me to donate :)
<AlanBell> anyone want some? http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
 * AlanBell should stick a donation slider on that page :)
<Daviey> AlanBell: gone are the days of SAE, huh? :)
<AlanBell> yeah, there is a re-education process about it, certainly
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a dose of man-flu and is now thinking about making all kinds of hot curries to help him.
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=ubuntu+12.10&_sacat=0&_from=R40
<popey> people offering 12.10 images for pre-order
<Daviey> popey: I wonder if we get a bunch of people to sign it, we could sell it as limited edition autographed ones?
<Daviey> PRE-RELEASE 'Blue' (cd-r). Limited edition !
 * TheOpenSourcerer 's wife now wants her machine upgraded to a similar spec to the one I did for the kids a couple of weeks ago. the i3-2125 is a decent little cpu/gpu combination for the price.
<daubers> AlanBell: Any chance I could pick up 10 or so for Reading Hackspace?
<daubers> Shall see if I can throw together a CD box or somesort to go on a shelf somewhere
<AlanBell> daubers: sure
<daubers> AlanBell: \o/ ta. I can pick them up next time I'm in your area of the woods, of if that won't be soonish will ship you a box with a stamp on it :)
<daubers> stamp(s)
<AlanBell> I will let you know when they arrive and we can sort something out
<daubers> Cool :) Was semi-intending a trip to Guildford a bit closer to Christmas as I remember it being quite a nice Chrimbo shoppingy town
<daubers> (memory may have been influenced by snow and people selling chestnuts from barrows)
<Laney> Just come to UDS and get a handful from there. Much easier.
<AlanBell> true
<daubers> Probably somewhat more expensive....
<SuperMatt> oh man, I just realised we only have a week to go
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: DON'T PANIC!
<SuperMatt> I WON'T
<SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to it
<SuperMatt> I'm going to come out for drinks next week too
<popey> daubers, it is..
<popey> <grifferz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNk7bjcS0FM&t=02m53s # all one needs to know about Guildford
<popey> seen elsewhere
<popey> ooh, just remembered I'm getting a set of "Cards Against Humanity" at UDS. Fun.
<dwatkins> I love Guildford, it has a road with lanes for A'shot and B'shot - I always thought they should make the third lane say C'shot.
<SuperMatt> *sigh* I hate how vocal the unity haters are
<SuperMatt> I understand that it wasn't great in previous versions, but now it's good and people are still whining.
<daubers> popey: Might book that in with the missus and sort some times
<popey> i go shopping in london every year, on xmas eve
<popey> took the kids last year, was fun
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hamleys!
<TheOpenSourcerer> XMas eve.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mental
<popey> nope
<popey> its dead
<popey> everyone says that :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wasn't last time I did that.
<popey> i have done it every year for the last ~7 years or so
<TheOpenSourcerer> 3 0r 4 yrs ago.
<popey> I arrive at 07:30 though :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<daubers> ick, london
<popey> get breakfast, start shopping at 8am, I am usually home before 12:00
 * daubers doesn't do crowds
<TheOpenSourcerer> Guildford is nice though. Picturesque and lots of shops. Parking can be a PITA though.
<daubers> Used to take massive detours walking around the city centre in Swansea to avoid them
<popey> its not crowded
<daubers> London is _always_ crowded
<popey> nope
<popey> not at 7:30 on xmas eve
<daubers> and smells bad
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> because everyone thinks it will be, so they avoid it
<daubers> Best thing about London is that there's lots of trains that take you back out again
<popey> no queues in shops, its brilliant
<czajkowski> daubers: london isn't always crowded it does have its moments
<czajkowski> kinda like the olympics
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oxford Circus around lunchtime on Xmas eve is where you want to be
<czajkowski> it was dead week 1
<popey> I drive up
<daubers> czajkowski: Doesn't stop it smelling and being headache inducingly noisy
<daubers> Urgh
<czajkowski> daubers: no that's just reading :p
<popey> going up the m3 on xmas eve the kids looked out the window and saw the sun rise.. "Daddy, is that the sun rising like in minecraft?"
<popey> "yes, yes it is"
<daubers> czajkowski: That's why I moved out of Reading when i could afford to :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fulham was lovely (lived there for a few years).
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lived round the corner from Jill Dando :-(
<popey> and the lights were still on too in oxford street, so kids saw them
<TREllis> guildford, rough? lol
<TREllis> obviously that person had never been to Portsmouth :)
<popey> hehe
 * TREllis lived in Guildford for 7 years, not robbed once
<mattt> that's a bonus
<kjalil> hey guys, I was wondering if there are any plans to improve the notifications in Ubuntu or if that is a separate project? Things like stacked notifs, abilitiy to change notf background/foreground colors, change position of notification per-app would be nice
<kjalil> I know there are a bunch of third-party hacks that do various things but don't work very well
<kjalil> if this is the wrong place to raise this issue please let me know and I will ask on the mailing-lists or propose it as an improvement somewhere
<popey> drat, my microserver has started making a lot of noise, i think it's the psu fan
<kjalil> popey: can you help with my previous question? I'm not trolling, honest, just trying to help
<popey> i think its under active development, yes
<Laney> I don't think you should expect that kind of customisation to be implemented
<popey> +1
<AlanBell> there is some unfinished looking stuff in the notification code itself
<AlanBell> you can specify northeast (default) or east (halfway up the right side of the screen)
<AlanBell> it looks like other compass points should have been implemented but never were
<kjalil> Laney: because Unity is meant to be very simple to use so less customisation?
<AlanBell> kjalil: well it is going for a specific look, customisation is diverging from the intended design
<kjalil> AlanBell: where is the notification code? might be easy to add those additional points...
<AlanBell> it would be easy, yes
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<kjalil> ok, so if Unity doesn't want to do it, is there a way to write an external app like Growl on OSX that integrates with the native apps and adds that functionality?
<AlanBell> lp:notify-osd and search for GRAVITY_NORTH_EAST
<kjalil> I know there is a Growl on Linux project but doesn't look very promising, thought I haven't tried it comprehensively
<AlanBell> kjalil: sure you could, it would not be massively hard
<kjalil> http://mattn.github.com/growl-for-linux/
<Laney> there are already other notification deamons
<Laney> so yes, it's a possibility
<AlanBell> there is a dbus signal to look for, then you have to display it somehow
<AlanBell> the compass point Gravity stuff gets messy for multimonitors, they fixed northeast, but I had no notifications for the first year or so until I realised that having a right monitor that is shorter than the left monitor meant the bubble was off screen
<kjalil> hmm, I really wouldn't want to diverge too much from the standard stuff, the simplest way to add proper customised notifications is what I am aiming for. I am talking in terms of both as a user and a programmer if I decide I want to hack around with it
<kjalil> AlanBell: eeek, that sounds like bad code that was not written properly to detect the width of the screen and make sure the notif is always in the right place
<AlanBell> sure, it was a bug. It got fixed.
<AlanBell> just if you are going to do other positions you need to fix that kind of thing
<kjalil> do the ubuntu devs not use multi-monitor setups much? I'm guessing they do
<AlanBell> Some do, some don't
<popey> some do
<popey> some dont
<popey> hah :)
<kjalil> lol
<popey> we have test suites for multi-monitor
<AlanBell> more importantly the design team didn't seem to design for multimonitors (think that is being fixed a bit)
<kjalil> do they prefer to fight with nouveau or just use nvidia?
<popey> "All generalisations are bad"
<kjalil> true
<bigcalm> Haha
<AlanBell> there will also be some people who use a matched pair of monitors who won't see some problems with asymetric screens
<jonathonf> that's not just ubuntu; windows 7 has terrible multi-monitor wallpaper support :)
<bigcalm> I have 4 screens on my desk, only 2 of them are identical
<kjalil> my current problem and itch is that I want to use ubuntu at work but we use skype heavily and the notifications for that are pretty broken in Unity. I have tried skype-wrapper, tried running external 'notify-send' commands but nothing works as nicely as OSX + Growl, so I'm frustrated by that. If multiple things happen at once, they should be stacked and the background colour should be able to be changed so it stands out clearly
<popey> what's the bug number for that problem?
<kjalil> the best solution I have found so far is to use Xubuntu which makes the window titles blink so I know there is a new notif waiting for me
<jonathonf> kde's notification applet (kind of) fixes that, it keeps all notifications until you clear them (also ported to gnome3/cinnamon). not that this helps in unity :)
<AlanBell> popey: for the skype problem?
<kjalil> popey: I would raise a bug, sure, should I do that thought? That is why I asked what is the proper way to get this fixed.  Raising a bug can sometimes be ignored, maybe some other avenue of discussion for this is better
<kjalil> s/should/but should/
<popey> filing a bug is the first step, not the last
<AlanBell> yeah, but stacked notifications will be "opinion"
<popey> i havent seen the issue you describe and i use skype on 12.04, so i would imagine many other devs havent seen it either
<kjalil> popey: i'm afraid there are probably bugs similar to mine, probably ignored, I don't want this to end up like that, I want someone to actually look at it and discussion around fixing it
<popey> how can we look at it and discuss it if we dont know about it?
<kjalil> popey: fair enough, but is a *bug* the place to discuss feature additions? If so, ok I'll raise a bug
<popey> depends
<popey> i thought you were saying there is some way in which you dont see skype notifications?
<kjalil> AlanBell: I don't think it's opinion, it's an option I think
<kjalil> popey: yeah let me explain my setup
<kjalil> popey: so I have 4 workspaces in Unity, and skype is not on the primary workspace which usually just terminals. When I get a notification in skype an extremely tiny notif pops up in the bottom right hand corner which is hard to read and can be easily missed
<kjalil> you don't have this problem?
<AlanBell> personally I don't run skype very often, just started it and it did one of its own notifications in the south east corner
<kjalil> AlanBell: exactly
<AlanBell> ok, so that isn't a unity notification
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/skype-notify is what you need
<kjalil> AlanBell: yes I know, variuous projects have attempted to wrap unity notifs around that
<kjalil> AlanBell: ok, for some reason all my google searches have never led me to that project, only to skype-wrapper
<kjalil> AlanBell: I will try that
<AlanBell> and you could try and file a bug against skype and wait for Microsoft to improve their Ubuntu integration
<kjalil> popey: we get a lot of notifs in my company from multiple channels. Growl on OSX allows me to change the color and put them anywhere I feel they will be more visible and only a few get stacked up. Also, the skype icon *predictably* updates with the no of unread notifs, it doesn't always do that in unity
<kjalil> I have also tried to use Pidgin's skype integration but that is pretty incomplete
<AlanBell> making unity notifications more functional is something that probably isn't going to happen in the default desktop - they meet the design specification already
<kjalil> hmm, I feel they are a bit too "far away" from the top bar, if they dropped down flush with it, it would look nicer and I can't see why stacking up just a couple would be a bad idea, it could be made optional even with a default of 1
<jonathonf> kjalil: no, they decided that the notification style is perfect. it's a notification-height away because that leaves space for volume change notification and screen brightness notifications
<jonathonf> bugs were filed, opinions were had
<jonathonf> "won't fix"
<popey> nice timing jnick_tait :)
<jonathonf> it's the same as having an option to keep menus visible, rather than having to hover, twitch, click. meets the design spec, "won't fix"
<popey> I'm glad we don't have tweakable options for everything
<popey> if we did, it would turn into kde
<popey> "Would you like clocks with that?"
<jonathonf> lol
<kjalil> hmm, ok I can live with the extra space, but what about stacking a few up? If I submit code for that will it be ignored? I guess so
<jonathonf> the thing i like least about kde is they still haven't sorted out SSO for keyrings. really annoying.
<AlanBell> dunno, it means things get designed to be flexible if the expectation is they will be flexed
<AlanBell> like the window buttons having the losenge baked into the button image for example
<AlanBell> swap close and maximise and you get a right mess, because they are not designed to be moved
<jonathonf> thankfully the window theme can be changed to get around that
<popey> who maintains all of these tweakables?
<jonathonf> wonder how long that will stay as a "tweakable option" :P
<AlanBell> well I am OK with the window buttons, it is just an example of an ugly hack that they got away with by reducing flexibility
<jonathonf> the people writing the software? this is the problem with not using upstream; you immediately reduce the number of people available
<jonathonf> i'm pretty sure Unity would have been better off using KWin and Plasma
<AlanBell> if you were designing for flexibility you would either need to implement a background layer losenge for the buttons to sit in, or not have the losenge
 * popey tickles d0od 
 * gord checks the time, yup, sounds like toast-o-clock
<d0od> popey: Don't, I'll enjoy it
<popey> :)
<jonathonf> the window theme engine should be able to do that; IIRC it's one of the limitations of using pixbuf
<AlanBell> but they want to be able to get the reality to match the picture the designer came up with, so are sacrificing flexibility for cheap ways to get precision to the picture
<jonathonf> yup
<jonathonf> exactly
<AlanBell> top panel shadow is another one, the design required it so it is there, it doesn't work in a range of unexpected situations, but in the default setup it matches the picture
<jonathonf> was unity2d based on qml or just qt?
 * jonathonf searches
<jonathonf> it was QML
<jonathonf> oh dear :)
<kjalil> popey: where do I file this as a bug? on launchpad? if I try to submit there, it seems to say that "Proposing features and ideas: you should submit your idea to Ubuntu Brainstorm or to the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list."
<kjalil> so I guess a bug is not a good idea?
<popey> Sorry, was busy rebuilding a server
<popey> so in the form of a tweet, your issue is "notifications from skype are not visible enough" and "notifications don't stack up in the history" ?
<AlanBell> d0od: coming to London next week?
<kjalil> popey: yes, and "position can't be changed"
<kjalil> popey: doesn't have to be skype-specific but in this case it is
<kjalil> AlanBell: what's happening in london next week? I'm in London :-)
<popey> release party
<AlanBell> bug 1061229 is fix committed \o/
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1061229 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt-Tab - alt+grave (key above tab) takes you back to where you started, not to the next window" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061229
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/
<AlanBell> kjalil: where should I already have alerted you to the existence of the release party?
<kjalil> AlanBell: 2006?
<popey> haha, everyone says that
<popey> its an ID
<AlanBell> nope, it just happens to be the 2006th event that the loco teams have run
<popey> I did mention to the developers of that website that having an ID in the url was mental but hey ho
<kjalil> AlanBell: huh? nowhere :-) i'm new here, but wouldn't mind coming if I can
<AlanBell> sure you can
<AlanBell> it was posted to the mailing list and google plus and twitter and such, just wondering where else it should have been
<AlanBell> probably should do a planet ubuntu post
<jonathonf> do people realise that the grave key is in different places in different keyboard layouts? that's why MS used tab (same place on all)
<AlanBell> jonathonf: yes, it is key-above-tab
<AlanBell> and some muppet broke my carefully accurate description in the bug
<kjalil> AlanBell: ah, right, I only just subscribed to various ubuntu mailing lists last night
<kjalil> popey: you were asking me a question about the skype notif thing earlier?
<kjalil> AlanBell: ok, it's near london bridge, I think I can make that
<popey> kjalil, right, so if it matches the current design then filing a bug won't get far
<popey> making a design mockup for how you think it should work would go further I suspect
<popey> especially if articulated without hyperbole or sensationalism
<jonathonf> AlanBell: ah, good :)
<popey> and with sane reasons why, other than "I prefer it, therefore everyone will prefer it"
<jonathonf> :D
<popey> which seems to be what most people on the internet think
<popey> "I think Unity sucks" therefore "Everyone hates unity"
<jonathonf> if enough people think that, though...
<kjalil> popey: I can try to be articulate, but don't want to spend a time and be ignored :-( but I guess you can but try
<kjalil> s/a/the
<popey> understood
<AlanBell> jonathonf: yeah, but Canonical are interested in the opinions of people who don't use Linux yet
<popey> note that nothing will change in 12.10 or 12.04
<popey> We are planning 13.04 and 13.10 though
<kjalil> popey: yeah if I can get my opinion heard for those it would be nice, but how would I do the mock up for example of a notf with a blue background?
<jonathonf> AlanBell: so people who haven't lived with it? just people who say "ooh, shiny!" i remember showing off Compiz (pre-fusion) and turned on *all* the effects. wobbly windows, heavy animation, fire, you name it. reaction: "oooh, shiny!" utterly unusable day-to-day. :D
<kjalil> popey: i'm not a graphic designer :-)
<AlanBell> jonathonf: yes, those people
<jonathonf> :D
<d0od> jonathonf: Ha!
<popey> my ex-boss turns on all those effects and gets very grumpy if they break
<popey> he uses them on his netbook all the time
<AlanBell> they need to maintain the "ooh shiney" until people get out of the shop and get home with it, preferably until the returns period expires ;)
<d0od> AlanBell:  Cynical :P
<AlanBell> d0od: just a teeny bit :)
<popey> then drop back to CDE?
<AlanBell> busybox!
<jonathonf> usually gnome-classic-effects ;)
<d0od> I envy you folks. For me Compiz with cube is old-skool
<jonathonf> afterstep + gnome1. now *there* was a desktop :D
<AlanBell> I have no idea why unity doesn't use cube
<dwatkins> I wish I could have the cube again, with digital rain as the background, that was great
<kjalil> ah good old afterstep, I wonder what happened to them
<popey> workspaces should die in a fire
<popey> </troll>
 * dwatkins hands popey a shiny gem
 * czajkowski loves workspaces *HATES* the cube 
 * czajkowski goes back to working 
<popey> i rarely use workspaces
<AlanBell> I rarely use them now that the cube is gone/broken
<kjalil> popey: you have mail + browser + terminals + IM in the same workspace?
<d0od> popey: YANA.
<popey> ya
<popey> Master!
<kjalil> master?
<popey> T. i like workspaces. so
<bigcalm> Yes, master!
<davmor2> Morning all forgot earlier
<jonathonf> it's afternoon now... :P
<jonathonf> wait
<diplo> Never used workspaces myself
<jonathonf> n/m
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
 * diplo is upgrading his work PC to Quantal
 * diplo crosses fingers
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski the cude is just workspaces presented differently :P
<bigcalm> 3 active monitors, 6 separate workspaces on each :D I'm a real estate hog
<davmor2> diplo: mad fool
<diplo> I'm using it at home and prefer it, but that was a clean install
<diplo> Not done an upgrade since maybe the 9.* days
<czajkowski> davmor2: I use 4 heavily, one for termnal and browser for work stuff one for mail one for browsers for non work stuff one spare  maybe movies
<bittin^work> got a second monitor at work perfect for running irc and a twitterclient on :)
<diplo> Do you guys who use workspaces only have single monitor ?
<bigcalm> diplo: no, see above
<d0od> czajkowski: How do you typically switched between them?
<diplo> blimey bigcalm
<diplo> See my problem with workspaces is I forget i have stuff on them
<bigcalm> diplo: I think the same thing at times
 * davmor2 gave up using workspaces when I realised that I was spending more time switching between them than working
<czajkowski> ctl alt  arrows
<czajkowski> I lay them out the same way every day so cant forget
<d0od> Ahh, see most people I know who 'heavily' use Workspaces also tend to be heavy keyboard shortcut users, too
<kjalil> diplo: I have 4, I have assigned a hot key to each, like Alt+1, Alt+2, etc
<bigcalm> diplo: I also use xubuntu-desktop, which a different experience over Unity workspaces I think
<kjalil> d0od: yes in my case that's true
<davmor2> czajkowski: but I am opening and closing windows all day, so you wind up in the wrong workspace and then it's back and forth all day
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye sure each to their own :)
<diplo> I wish it did a quick number as you selected the workspace or something maybe, or you could name them maybe
<davmor2> plus at the time you couldn't use alt+tab to switch to an app on another workspace which was really annoying don't know if that is still the same now
<d0od> my mentally-created dream Ubuntu keyboard has a grid of 4 buttons on it, each assigned to a workspace #ProperlyShouldntAdmitThat
<AlanBell> popey: how is my Ubuntu keyboard getting on?
<popey> Very nicely. Keep forgetting to take it to the office. /o\
<popey> will take it in on thursday
<popey> well, keep forgetting to go into the office more like
<AlanBell> ok, would be nice to show it to the shop people
<popey> yeah, will do
<d0od> Ubuntu keyboard?
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/07/a-super-key-you-will-want-to-press/
<kjalil> why is that keyboard on *grass*?
<AlanBell> doesn't everyone have a grassed desk?
<d0od> Ha!
<popey> it is a really awesome keyboard
<diplo> But just looked at the price! blimey....
<AlanBell> this rain isn't going to stop :(
<popey> it's raining?
<AlanBell> yeah, I was going to go to the post office when it stopped raining, then to the office. Has not stopped raining so have been working from home
<mgdm> If I was to get a relatively custom keyboard I'd just get blank keys
<AlanBell> get a das keyboard
<mgdm> I did consider it, but I don't like noisy keyboards
<bootlfdhfrsa> Biggest problem that faces the IOM ::: NO GREGGS !
<mgdm> I'm actually quite happy with the Apple wired keyboard now
<mgdm> I can't be doing with the wireless one
<popey> I will probably get another thinkpad one
<bigcalm> Hayley hates my keyboard. It's handy to have a spare, quiet, one for late night coding :)
<diplo> I have an old dell one that just works, fairly quiet but one of the stands is broken :(
<bigcalm> My goodness, I never knew that the intro music for THHGTTG was Eagles - Journey of the Sorcerer
<bigcalm> You learn something new every day
<christel> AlanBell: i reckon it'll stop just after easter
<christel> briefly
<mgdm> popey: yeah, they're nice too - quite fancied one but they were extremely expensive when I looked
<mgdm> bigcalm: wow
<popey> yeah, still are
<bigcalm> Having heard the intro, I'm now waiting for Peter Jones to start talking to me
<popey> :)
<popey> i cant find it on spotify :(
<mgdm> nor me :(
<popey> only a 1:15 version from the OSK
<popey> OST
<bigcalm> http://grooveshark.com/#!/playlist/PHP/68417636
<bigcalm> Was pasted into #phpnw. It's half way down the play list
<popey> ta
 * popey winds it up to 11
 * mgdm reverts to LCD Soundsystem
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I didn't get sick from attending phpnw12. Quite pleased about that
 * bittin^work listning to Lacuna Coil
<mgdm> \o/
<bittin^work> o/
<popey> bah, want to buy that track now
<bigcalm> Tis good
<diplo> Hadnt heard of Lacuna Coil before, listening to it now.. quite like!
<jonathonf> tip: do not accept four tubs of pear and apple "light" cottage cheese as a substitute for one tub of longley farm cottage cheese.
<christel> <3 lacuna coil
<christel> bigcalm: do you normally get sick whenever you go somewhere? :P
<bigcalm> christel: there seems to be a pattern
<christel> hehe
<bittin^work> christel indeed found out of them becouse i confused them with Icon of Coil :D
<bigcalm> I need to lay off the booze in the socials
<christel> haha
<AlanBell> this shopping lens is really odd, it doesn't seem to be a separate lens and it populates results into other lenses
 * AlanBell wonders if that is even a bug
 * bigcalm knows of an alternative ;)
<popey> AlanBell, yes, it populates the home lens
<AlanBell> same in a guest session, has to be a bug, but I can't see how it would be missed
<bigcalm> Lunch time!
<popey> how so?
<AlanBell> sure, it populates the global search which is controvertial, but I am fine with it
<popey> ok, so whats the issue?
<AlanBell> I want to click the shopping lens at the bottom of the dash so my shopping searches don't get cluttered with files and applications etc
<popey> thats not implemented
<AlanBell> :o
<AlanBell> so if you turn it off in the home lens you can't get to it at all
<bittin^work> gonna order this next week when i have money: http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.aspx?sku=755746 :)
<popey> how do you mean "turn it off"?
<AlanBell> well isn't there a control on the way to stop things responding to active_global_search signals so they only respond to scope.active_search
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses#Reacting_to_the_active-global-search_changing
<AlanBell> I figured they were going to blank active_global_search for certain lenses to choose which were allowed to listen to home searches
<AlanBell> anyhow, not having a lens icon kind of makes lenses inconsistent and confusing
<AlanBell> actually it is the scope you don't want to allow to bind to the global search
<AlanBell> hmm, that would need to be a per-scope user interface to control this stuff, that is going to confuse people
<popey> yeah, it should really be called unity-shopping-scope IMO
<AlanBell> no the scope would be unity-shopping-amazon-scope
<AlanBell> or unity-shopping-products.ubuntu.com
<AlanBell> there could be other scopes tossing results into the shopping lens
<AlanBell> and the architecture means they would have to be controlled individually to stop them accessing global search queries
<AlanBell> you could stop the lens displaying the results, but the scopes would already have read the results and done evil things with it in the background
<AlanBell> I really do think the lack of a separate lens for shopping is a bad thing. It breaks most explanations of the dash and lenses.
<jonathonf> ^ this
<jonathonf> but then again, "I don't like it, therefore it must be wrong for everyone" :D
<popey> given how many people have told me they dont mind it or quite like it, yeah, that.
<AlanBell> I don't mind the lens, I just want to be able to explain lenses to people
<czajkowski> maybe the design team have some other experience of this that made them do it this way
<jonathonf> i'd wonder what sort of reaction there would be if Microsoft included adverts in Windows Search...
<jonathonf> but hey
<jonathonf> as you say
<jonathonf> people have told you they like it
<popey> if everyone paid 20-400 quid per copy of Ubuntu (like windows)  then maybe this wouldn't be needed
<Daviey> jonathonf: What is your beef?
<popey> mmm beef
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<Daviey> popey: i'll join you, http://drool.daviey.com/
<Daviey> (shamelessly stolen)
<jonathonf> Daviey: i'm trying to form the issue into something that doesn't sound like a snarky comment; always found that difficult in IRC
<Daviey> jonathonf: It's easy to turn off, it's useful for many, it helps to fund ubuntu development and you are not paying for it.
<Daviey> Nobody is being forced to use that, or anything.
<Daviey> http://start.ubuntu.com/ being the default homepage is the same..
<jonathonf> yup
<popey> i wonder what the webstats for http://start.ubuntu.com/12.04/sprite.png look like :)
<popey> <Mirv> could someone with nvidia binary, someone with nvidia nouveau and/or someone with fglrx try out the nux from  ppa:timo-jyrinki/prerelease in quantal and report back if seeing anything regressing in bringing Dash visible / active blur?
<popey> ^^^ anyone?
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just made a Pork Vindaloo with loads of spices and chillies. It will now simmer gently in the oven for a hour or so then rest before dinner time :-D
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: Nice.. Next time make a dog curry?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have not been to Korea and so not tried dog. Have you?
<Daviey> It's on my todo.. But best not go to India to eat pork :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Horse is very tasty though - had that in France & Spain
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pork is fine in the South and Sri Lanka
<TheOpenSourcerer> Many peeps eat it there.
<Daviey> I struggled to eat frog legs, when my daughter said they looked like they belonged to fairies.  She is correct, they do.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Snails FTW!
<Daviey> Snails served ice cold FTL
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww
<jonathonf> i guess i'm shouting into the wind here. i have no established credibility. i'm another faceless internet commenter. but there's a difference between searching the internet and searching my local machine. the argument that "if you don't like it, don't use it" is well established within OSS projects but it still does not allow for a satisfactory discussion, especially when discussion has already taken place between those who support the view/position
<jonathonf> /change. i'm also not convinced of the "fund ubuntu" argument given that most software is written by other people (libreoffice, firefox, etc.). yes, there's maintenance to be done, but then other distros manage just fine without embedding affiliate codes; IIRC tehre was an outcry when Mint wanted to change Rhythmbox to gain some affiliate sales, were shouted down, and removed the change - Ubuntu made the change and stuck with it. i dislike the aggre
<jonathonf> ssive attempts to extract revenue, and the movement down this path seems similar to someone who sets up a kiosk next to the road to provide directions, then starts charging a toll for the road.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Tigers in Kent like Half a horse for their meals they get a little over protective over their food though, their get lost I'm eating growl is loud
<jonathonf> not quite as expressive as i would like, but it's difficult writing being able to see only one line at a time
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Are there many tigers in Kent?
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: yeap there is a tiger sanctuary WHF in kent
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh. Kewl.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.whf.org.uk/index.esp
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - Big Cat Encounter days...
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: https://picasaweb.google.com/104244164525559506101/TigerTrip2010
<popey> "but then other distros manage just fine without embedding affiliate codes"
<popey> Linux Mint.
<popey> PinguyOS
<marxjohnson> jonathonf: regardless of who writes the applications, Canonical employ a lot of people to bring it all together, make sure the underlying stuff works with hardware, promote it, package it, test it, host it and so on. Plus now that we've got Unity, there's a lot of design, UX testing and so on to think about. Plus development of tablet/mobile/TV. These things aren't free.
<popey> Two examples of current, popular distros that put those affiliate codes on _everything_ they can
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice davmor2 :-)
<popey> jonathonf, mint go out of their way to remove ubuntu affiliate codes from software we package and host.
<jonathonf> it's ok, i give up
<jonathonf> i realised that while MacOSX is based on BSD, and Apple feed back stuff from Darwin into BSD, they're not selling BSD
<Daviey> popey: i didn't know that.. that is pretty bad!
<jonathonf> they're selling a front-end and application ecosystem
<Daviey> Apple has little relation to BSD :)
<Daviey> Once, sure.. but now..
<jonathonf> OpenDarwin?
<popey> that makes up a tiny part of the system
<jonathonf> though i haven't looked at it for a while
<popey> jonathonf, it's not that we're ignoring your argument
<jonathonf> didn't ubuntu remove gnome's affiliate codes?
<popey> it's that we've heard it a few times over the last week
<Daviey> jonathonf: No, Ubuntu set their own code.
<jonathonf> isn't "hearing it a few times" indicative that it's not just one person's view?
<popey> i never said it was one persons view
<popey> did I?
<jonathonf> or do you mean on the channel?
<popey> I mean on "The Internet"
<popey> bloggers and the like
<popey> and news reports, repeating bloggers
<popey> and bloggers, repeating news reports, repeating bloggers
<popey> etc
<Daviey> jonathonf: To clarify your view is that it is wrong for Canonical to try to cover costs this way, and they have no right to have expenses as other projects manage just fine?
<jonathonf> <popey> "I think Unity sucks" therefore "Everyone hates unity"
<jonathonf> ok, that's not quite the same, sorry
<Daviey> Even thou, Firefox make the majority of their money through affiliation with google.
<davmor2> jonathonf: No they removed banshee's code and put in their own and then donated 25% of that plus 25% of U1 music sales to Gnome
<popey> I dunno, I just think people are blowing this up out of proportion like _every_ _single_ _thing_ we do
<popey> buttons move -> world ends
<popey> gimp removed from default install -> world ends
<popey> unity by default -> world ends
<jonathonf> Daviey: it's about the tone. putting an amazon search into it's own lens is one thing, making it global is another
<popey> etc
<jonathonf> davmor2: ah, right, i couldn't remember clearly
<popey> no more alternate cd -> world ends
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if we could talk about food more?
<popey> we should make a big list of all the things we've done that have "completely broken" ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/ :-)
<jonathonf> Daviey: plus the Firefox+Google is through internet search, they're not monitoring my address bar an suggesting amazon links :)
<jonathonf> i have no spice rack :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Technically neither do I.
<davmor2> popey: on quantal I want to know what your Secret is......Honest you have a secret http://ubuntuone.com/3F1SF6UZxbaK5vXjXpDi4C
<Daviey> jonathonf: Are you kidding?  Where do you spend most of your life?
<marxjohnson> jonathonf: no, just suggesting adverts all over the rest of the Intenet
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a spice cupboard and some boxes
<Daviey> jonathonf: and the awesome bar, means you share everything
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Man that looks crap.
<davmor2> popey: I'm not sure why all the docs showed up though :D
<jonathonf> i'm not aware that typing into the firefox location bar shares this with anyone... if it press enter when not on  a url it'll do a search, but what i type isn't otherwise transmitted?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder if someone will write a version of "Adblock plus" for Unity ;-)
<popey> food you say? http://popey.com/~alan/shopping.png
<diplo> I've just eaten, now you're making me think about it again!
<Daviey> jonathonf: Ah, chrome it does.. on firefox there is a seperate bar
<Daviey> it's funny, because popey cleaned his desktop before taking a screenshot
<jonathonf> that reminds me.. i need more fish sauce
<davmor2> Daviey: no that is a guest session
<popey> guest session :)
<davmor2> popey: I'll have to remember that in future :D
<jonathonf> oh, talking of the alternate cd, is the mini.iso staying?
<davmor2> jonathonf: it is
<Daviey> jonathonf: the mini.iso  has become more important
<Daviey> it's a release deliverable that undergoes proper QA now.
<czajkowski> popey: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/251419850541522944/photo/1/large  shopping from th dash is AWESOME!
<jonathonf> good, good. love it for setting up minimal VMs
<davmor2> Daviey: it did when I was testing it way back :P
<popey> my thats a busy indicator are you have there czajkowski
<Daviey> davmor2: I said proper testing, not morely testing
<Daviey> jonathonf: If you are setting up minimal vm's using mini.iso, you are possibly doing it wrong
<davmor2> Daviey: I think if you ask around if it can withstand my testing it is a pass :P
<jonathonf> mini.iso -> command line install
<jonathonf> though i'm open to suggestions :)
<Daviey> jonathonf: using the cloud images makes more sense IMO
<davmor2> jonathonf: why would you need to do a cli install?
 * jonathonf looks for cloud images
<jonathonf> davmor2: for a fully minimal installation, e.g. I have one VM just for playing with node.js.
<jonathonf> lol, fully minimal
<davmor2> jonathonf: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/05/04/lxc-in-ubuntu-12-04-lts/ you might want to look at this then
<kjalil> popey: I have a bug on my home desktop where pulseaudio needs to be killed in order to prevent the sound from skipping, especially when watching flash, before I submit it as a new bug, just wanted to check if anyone else has experienced this? Maybe it's fixed in the next release?
<kjalil> popey: looking at launchpad and searching I don't find anything exactly relevant
<jonathonf> davmor2: ooo, this is new stuff to me, nice
<popey> kjalil, google turned up this http://askubuntu.com/questions/122148/flash-in-browsers-does-not-play-sound-accurately-using-pulse-network-audio/612
<popey> http://mashable.com/2012/10/10/txtr-beagle-e-reader/  stupidly cheap e-reader
<jonathonf> reading about the openstack/ubuntu cloud stuff... it's companies like rackspace and nasa that should be funding development like a RHEL-type product, with funding for ubuntu coming down from that
<jonathonf> s/development like/development for/
<kjalil> popey: nice, thanks! they don't seem to have solved the problem yet though
<AlanBell> "The txtr beagle has no standby-mode: off is off. Switch the device on and start reading within a few seconds. With this concept, two AAA batteries enable you to read 12-15 books per year."
<AlanBell> does that sound like a rather low number of books to read in a year to you?
<diplo> Anyone here used Hugin ?
<jonathonf> that's one per month
<jonathonf> and i bet that's to get a year's battery life
<diplo> I read probably a book a week
<diplo> Sometimes quicker, sometimes slower
<jonathonf> "batteries will last a year" sounds better than "batteries will last 10,000 page turns" ;)
<daubers> diplo: hugin rocks
<diplo> daubers: I'm not finding that yet ( no exif data )
<diplo> And I may just suck
<diplo> Latter more than likely true
<AlanBell> jonathonf: yeah, I guess it is like hard drives being sold by the number of songs/movies they can store rather than scare people with actual information
<jonathonf> are there any recommended resources for lxc? i think i'm missing some things from my install (like cgroups, though i think i just installed that with cgroups-lite)
<daubers> diplo: Thought there was options for adding exif data.... tbh I've been more concerned with getting ENORMOUS pano's :)
 * AlanBell wonders about hugin + pan&tilt camera
<diplo> yeah, I can't do anything with it at the mo
<diplo> trying to follow a tutorial but sucking badly
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> My chair has tilted back so far that I'm contemplating a nap
<jonathonf> do or do not, there is no contemplate
<bigcalm> jonathonf: I work from home. I have been known to go back to bed for a nap before now
<bigcalm> And writing quotes always makes me want to take a nap
<jonathonf> a 20 minute nap is supposed to be good for concentration
<jonathonf> (obviously not while napping)
<daubers> diplo: I did have some good examples on flickr... but a lot of my flickr stuffs disappeared apparently
<bigcalm> daubers: did you pay the bill?
<daubers> bigcalm: I did ned my pro account...... does that remove all your "pro" content?
<bigcalm> Did or didn't?
<daubers> did
<bigcalm> Then I'm confused by your sentance
<bigcalm> sentence
<daubers> If you close your pro account, does it remove all the content you uploaded when you had it?
<bigcalm> Oh, if you close it, then possibly
<bigcalm> If you forget to renew and then do so later, I think you get your old content back
<daubers> diplo: I have some pano's made from hundreds of photos
<diplo> I don't think i understand the lingo very well
<daubers> diplo: What are you struggling with (I more or less let it do it all automagically)
<diplo> Well that's what it tells me to do, but it says it can't find any reference points etc
<daubers> How many photo's are you trying to stitch together?
<diplo> 4
<daubers> and they overlap?
<diplo> yeah
<daubers> jpg's?
<diplo> yep
<daubers> Hmm..... can you throw me the set?
<diplo> Uploading now
 * daubers lets hugin install again
<mgdm> Flickr Pro accounts expiring just means you only get the last 200 photos
<mgdm> the rest of the stuff is safe, just hidden
<daubers> mgdm: Ah!!! That'd be it
<diplo> daubers: the jpgs are scans, and quite large could that be the cause
<daubers> diplo: Wouldn't have thought so....
<diplo> 2mins left..
<daubers> I've given it images at different zoom lengths before and it mostly sorts itself out
<AlanBell> system requirements for Ubuntu have changed for 12.10, Ram is up to 768 from 256 and HDD up to 5GB from 4GB
<ali1234> 12.04 ran in 256mb? you've got to be kidding
<AlanBell> well quite, but I am looking at what gets printed on the CD wallets
<AlanBell> I hardly think this is an OMG RAM requirements have trebbled thing /o\
<AlanBell> more a readjustment to reflect reality
<daubers> AlanBell: Give it 12 hours and it will be
<AlanBell> will be what?
<daubers> an /o\ zomg they trebled the RAM requirment <world ends>
<AlanBell> it could be, wonder if d0od spotted that one too
<diplo> daubers:  from 4GB
<diplo> hmm cp and paste didn't work
<diplo> :D
<daubers> :)
<diplo> http://apartington.co.uk/grove.zip
<diplo> lmk when you have it and i'll delet0r
<daubers> 4 minutes :)
<diplo> I didn't scan though
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop#System_Requirements actually says 384 but the printed wallets are 256
<daubers> diplo: got
<diplo> ta
<daubers> Have you got the lens data from the original images?
<daubers> (focal length and HFOV)
<diplo> No, it was a school photo and my dad had a copy and scanned in, i don't know any details
<diplo> I read notes and was guessing via the notes
<diplo> http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/multi-lens/en.shtml
<jonathonf> wait, what? ram use has tripled? omg ubuntu has become soo bloated!11ty1
<daubers> diplo: Is the first image the final imae?
<diplo> 2006 is the first one yeah
<diplo> and works it's way back]
<daubers> right, just let it align again...
<daubers> try a different set of lens settings.....
<diplo> a man in the know
<diplo> Well better than me
<diplo> :P
<daubers> it's more a case of, if this was from a digi camera it would magically make it fit from the EXIF data :) This is trial and error of what it might be
<diplo> I think i was having more errors than good trials :D
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/garden-shop/seeds/chilli-seeds-by-type/bulk-chilli-seeds/peppers-chilli-rocoto-red ? maybe
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Thanks... How did you find that? My Google Fu must be deserting me
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer, do you sell peppers you grow or do you not have enough to have any spare?
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: rogoto red chilli seeds google noticed the spelling mistake before I did
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: No. I never have enough. I give some to friends (or enemies) when I have spare. But this year was a disaster frankly.
<popey> i might plant some next year
<popey> fancy getting one of those slim upright mini greenhouse things
<popey> not got much space in my garden
<TheOpenSourcerer> Start in January or even December and keep them indoors.
<ndf> a friend of mine recently bought a "yellow brain chilli"... you know anything about those?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Until march/april
<popey> yeah, i have a long window-sill in the den, south facing
<popey> currently has loads of crap on it though
<popey> ---> bin
<popey> --> ebay :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ndf: There are millions of varieties now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Brain Strain" is pretty awesome. I have some seeds for those :-D
 * daubers will be breaking out the heated propogator again this year
<popey> ooh, ebay have changed their logo
<ndf> he was showing us this chilli and he'd only touched the skin, after about 5 minutes he'd touched his face a few times and his eyes were burning, his nose was running
<ndf> lol
<popey> :D
<gord> youtubes design keeps changing for me. i think they may be about to roll out some updated design. i'm going to set fire to my pitchfork just in preperation
<Laney> at least he didn't go to the toilet
<ndf> yeah i haven't installed flash yet and youtube automatically HTML5'd it for me, but it's stopped doing it now
<popey> yeah
<popey> i had two browser tabs open, different design in each!
<ndf> i think that's what they're updating
<popey> both logged into same account, same browser
<popey> mental
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow - just tasted the curry I made earlier. 1 x Dried Bhut Jolokia, 1 x Trinidad Scorpion Mouraga, a dozen or so dried red chilli (cayenne types) and a couple of teaspoons of extra hot chilli powder. It's a tad warm.
<davmor2> ohhhhhhh IE10 is blocking flash unless it is from a whitelisted site html5 video ftw
<ndf> IE is doing something sensible!?
<gord> html5 video is kind of crappy, people seem to forget that there is a reason people still use flash
<ndf> there may be a reason to use flash, but it's never a good one ;P
<ndf> flash is terrible
<ndf> hogs so much memory
<ndf> I thought Adobe announced that they were going to discontinue flash about 3 years ago lol
<davmor2> gord: I didn't think webm was that bad
<gord> i didn't think IE10 even supported webm, webm doesn't do DRM either does it?
<AlanBell> flash doesn't do full screen right (or the youtube implementation of it doesn't)
<ndf> mine seems to fullscreen ok - I sometimes have issues with which monitor it thinks should be used, but that's just because it chooses the primary display over the current
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/youtubefullscreen.png
<AlanBell> let me do a better one
<ndf> odd =/
<AlanBell> so the screen on the left is kind of big and running a full screen youtube, screen on the right is smaller and has other stuff on it
<AlanBell> screen on the left is fully occupied by the flash object, but the video plays in a bit in the middle, slightly smaller than the other screen
<AlanBell> I believe this is something ali1234 has fixed with a wrapper
<popey> yeah, i get that too
<ndf> is it actually the size of the other screen?
<AlanBell> https://github.com/ali1234/fullscreenhack
<AlanBell> ndf: no
<AlanBell> and ali1234's fullscreenhack works a treat
<kjalil> AlanBell: yes that's quite an annoying problem I faced too when using dual screens, from memory that hack *did not* work for me, I'm on a single monitor now
<AlanBell> is that the kind of thing that we could get into Ubuntu somehow by default?
<daubers> diplo: Thjink I sussed it
<AlanBell> so that if you use flash it works
<daubers> just waiting for it to output?
<daubers> s/?/
<diplo> Top man!!!
<diplo> thanks for that
<kjalil> AlanBell: I think I saw an Adobe page discussing this and saying it will be fixed soon? But that was a long time ago
<AlanBell> adobe have abandoned Linux and flash in general
<daubers> diplo: No probs. Just had to make it think of each scan as a picture taken with a perfect camera, and manually add the points it uses to do it's calcuulations
<diplo> I tried that, and failed miserably :P
<daubers> :p
<daubers> http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/scans/en.shtml <- helped a bit
<daubers> oh, and ignore the big photo from the set
<daubers> otherwise it get's messy
<diplo> the full one ?
<daubers> yes
<diplo> Sorry I put that in there for you for reference :)
<daubers> :)
<diplo> brb
<diplo> daubers: Off home, will reconnect there
<diplo> Cheers again
<daubers> diplo: no probs, will take a little while to blend
<diplo> ok :)
<popey> Will it...
<gord> well after a day or so of using it, the SIII has convinced me, some android phones don't suck
<popey> lies!
<gord> okay, one android phone :P
<davmor2> popey: the s3 rocks
<davmor2> popey: and it has maps that work too
 * popey shrugs
<gord> the quality of the google apps being much higher on android is what keeps me on there mostly
<AlanBell> we were directed off a bridge by android maps this week
<gord> even the ios 5 map app wasn't that great
<ali1234> i agree. the google apps they make for other phones are rubbish. you are usually better off just using the web pages.
<popey> G+ on iOS is way nicer than G+ on Android IMO
<popey> probably the exception
<MartijnVdS>  I love G+ on Android
<gord> g+ on ipad is nice, i can't say if the iphone version is any different though
<davmor2> I only use G+ on android I might use it more in quantal as a webapp but we'll see
<jonathonf> i prefer the mobile web page to the android app...
<gord> oh and the gallery in android 4 is great, because it connects to my picasa stuff in a sane way
<ali1234> looks like the g+ on iphone still does that horrible thing where the post text is displayed on top of the post image?
<davmor2> gord: g+ on the xoom is really nice
<gord> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bwm20Dve3pM is plain beautiful on the big 720 amoled SIII screen as well, which is nice
<popey> feeling peckish? https://twitter.com/burgerbeartom/status/255318258004135938
<mgdm> blimey
<Laney> http://www.beerfestival.nottinghamcamra.org/Beers_and_Breweries/2012_beer_list.xls
<Laney> that's me tomorrow
<Laney> yum yum
<bootljhfdsds> Follow the White wabbit http://goo.gl/a5Qtp
<popey> hmm?
<bootljhfdsds> http://goo.gl/yFOzQ
<Azelphur> does anyone know how to tell when BT Infinity will be hooked up for your area?
<Azelphur> the coverage map says my exchange is activated, and I think there are areas near me that are activated
<Azelphur> but my house isn't
<jacobw> Azelphur: astrology
<Azelphur> lol
<davmor2> Azelphur: is there cable in your area already but not in the bit nearby?
<Azelphur> yes
<davmor2> Azelphur: then you might not get it fullstop
<Azelphur> apparently they've wired the box up, but there's no power going to the box
<Azelphur> \o/
<davmor2> Azelphur: When I say cable I mean is there virginmedia cable in your area
<Azelphur> davmor2: virgin? we're talking about BT Infinity
<Azelphur> there's no virgin cable here (or anywhere near here)
<davmor2> Azelphur: their argument is if an area has previously been cabled then there is not enough interest to warrant going there
<Azelphur> ah, I see
<Azelphur> then yea, we should get BT Infinity here, there's no virgin cable anywhere around here at all
<Azelphur> not within 50+ miles
<davmor2> Azelphur: in other words the cost outweighs the income
<davmor2> Azelphur: inthat case they are probably just dragging their feet about it :D
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<gord> Azelphur, phone BT and tell them to fix it?
<Azelphur> haha, could do
<Azelphur> I keep seeing on forums that there's apparently a spreadsheet for it, but instead of linking the spreadsheet everyone just asks for a postcode and says the answer :@
<Azelphur> oh I see, that's because it's a hacked stolen spreadsheet
<ali1234> gord: nice one, i just bought that app
<gord> ali1234, the live wallpaper thingy?
<davmor2> Azelphur: at a mad guess have you thought about the BT website :D
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> what app? I'm curious now :P
<gord> yeah its nice
<ali1234> it's really good but they could make it so much better
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea, it says my exchange is activated, but my house isn't, and gives no time scales
<ali1234> eg make the leaves shake if you shake the phone
<ali1234> make it automatically follow day/night and seasons
<ali1234> and make it automatically follow weather too
<ali1234> the basic idea of photorealistic leaves... they've nailed that
<gord> it does auto follow day/night
<ali1234> oh? cool
<gord> yeah if you enable it in the settings
<ali1234> maybe they will add all this stuff eventually
<ali1234> it runs really well on my galaxy S as well
<Azelphur> aha, openreach has a cabinet checker, and it seems to have identified the correct cabinet
<Azelphur> apparently "We're sorry but itâs taking us longer than planned to get your cabinet ready for service. Please bear with us."
<Azelphur> :<
<gord> yeah they cheat ;)
<gord> the blurry leaves are just blurry looking textures, its not doing proper DOF, so its just a few quads really
<Azelphur> why is it that I'm always unlucky with internet connections, in my old house we had virgin fibre at both ends of the street, but not actually in our street, and now I've moved down here, most of the area all around me is activated, just my cabinet isn't xD
<ali1234> well, all 3d graphics is cheating tbh
<gord> Azelphur, does it help you to know that i get 80mbit down from my fibre internet?
<ali1234> even ray tracing has large amounts of cheating
<Azelphur> gord: no :<
 * Azelphur glares
<gord> oh, well at least you know
<Azelphur> xD
<gord> downloading stuff got boring, now its just like, oh, its done, instantly. boooring
<davmor2> gord: I know the feeling only having 60meg myself
<ali1234> it's not "just" a few quads though... the leaves are 3d-ish, i'd say each leaf is at least 2 quads
<ali1234> which means they could put physics objects on them and make them shakeable
<davmor2> gord: however I think you'll find 4.5GB of game take a few minutes
<gord> not that many
<davmor2> Azelphur: does that help you out at all?
<Azelphur> davmor2: it makes me hopeful for the future xD
<davmor2> Azelphur: oh no in the future gord and myself will have a faster connection again probably :D
<gord> i know i'm setting myself up for failure saying this, but 80mbit is probably enough ;)
<gord> its enough to stream *two* bluray movies at once, i just need everyone else to get 80mbit so we can start getting services that actually use my bandwidth
<davmor2> gord:  it's never fast enough
<Azelphur> davmor2: fuuuu :p
<ali1234> 2 blu-rays == one 3d blu-ray?
<Azelphur> gord: I've been saying for years, as soon as the connections get fast enough for 2d video streaming, 3d will take off and we'll have all the same problems, again.
<gord> y'know i've not checked, bluray tends to run at 25-30mbit for 2d
<bootljhfdsds> Hey, not bad if you wanna have a IRC chat logger or something ... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230863360045&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
<davmor2> popey: ^ I'm not going to say this is a spambot........but.........if the cap fits
<popey> Eee900 "Wow"
<popey> :)
<mattt> woot
<mattt> thought i was getting better
<mattt> but i'm not
 * mattt goes off to die
 * jacobw reads mattt his rites
<MartijnVdS> You have the rite to remain silent?
<KnightHome> Hey guyz
<jacobw> hi
<popey> yo
<KnightHome> popey
<KnightHome> the episode is live , but we have some trouble with the feed at the moment
<KnightHome> hope to have that fixed tonight
<popey> uhoh
<KnightHome> i think your awesomeness broke rss
<ali1234> any recommendations for a simple issue tracker?
<MartijnVdS> RT!
 * MartijnVdS runs
<ali1234> what's RT?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: request-tracker
<jacobw> Request Tracker
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/
<ali1234> it has to be a webpage
<MartijnVdS> it is
<popey> it is
<MartijnVdS> it is also packaged.
<popey> its the "de-facto" one everyone always suggests
<popey> not necessarily the best, but the most well known
<MartijnVdS> it's gotten a lot better in the last few years
<ali1234> i need it to be extremely simple
<popey> not the worst either :)
<ali1234> more like a web based todo list
<popey> trello
<ali1234> but for 3 people
<popey> for a web based to-do
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: google mail has a built-in todo list
<MartijnVdS> oh.. for 3 people
<ali1234> only one of the people will actually be closing tickets
<ali1234> (me)
<MartijnVdS> trac?
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<ali1234> god no
<ali1234> NOOOOOO
<ali1234> unfortunately trac is the only one i have any experience with
<MartijnVdS> that's like zaying "zalgo" :)
<MartijnVdS> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/zalgo
<ali1234> i'm seriously considering gitlab
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: bugzilla?
<ali1234> NOOOO
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: JIRA?
<ali1234> i've never tried to run a bugzilla but i've used it enough to know it's not at all what i need
<ali1234> JIRA is open source?
<ali1234>  /free
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.roundup-tracker.org/ -- apt-cache search issue tracker finds me that
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it has a free trial
<ali1234> if gitlab were written in python instead of ruby it would be a no brainer
<ali1234> but i have zero knowledge of ruby, and whenever i look at ruby code it looks suspiciously like a slightly better formatted dialect of perl
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's like the evil stepchild of Perl and Python to me
<mgdm> well, it was heavily inspired by perl
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: so is PHP. See where that got us.
<ali1234> i thought php was inspired by C
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it was inspired by Cthulhu's mutterings
<ali1234> also one time i tried to install a ruby gem on ubuntu and it totally failed
<ali1234> for a bogus reason
<mgdm> if you're going to run ruby on ubuntu I find http://rvm.io makes it a lot simpler
<mgdm> but it's not something I do a lot of
<ali1234> is that like virtualenv?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: it got me a job, I'm not complaining
<mgdm> ali1234: more to it than that - it installs its own self-compiled ruby from source
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> maybe gitlab has a ppa or something
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: so you're sure not to get security updates
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: GOOD IDEA
<ali1234> it's not like i need ruby for anything else at all
<mgdm> nothing stops you updating it periodically
<mgdm> it's not like I have apt-get upgrade in cron on my servers
<mgdm> they do have that stupid 'one-line command to install' thing going on, though
<ali1234> github has an installation shell script. it downloads a random ruby tarball and 'make install's it.
<ali1234> that makes me not like it
<mgdm> http://mgdm.net/weblog/why-one-line-installers-are-bad/
<mgdm> there's loads of 'em
<ali1234> it has an install guide to but it's just a commented version of the script
<ali1234> basically it's the requirement to install loads of unmanaged deps that i don't like
<mgdm> Even Bytemark do that
<mgdm> which surprised me
<Azelphur> is there any websites that document game releases that run on Linux / wine?
<Azelphur> It'd be nice to perhaps find some good native games
<d0od> Azelphur: The WINE website has a big database of what works (and what does;t)
<Azelphur> d0od: yea, but it's a bit feeble, it lists a few things on the main page, and besides that your left going through heaps of desktop apps etc to weed out a game
<Azelphur> oh duh, I bet desura can do this.
<d0od> Azelphur: Oh really? Can't say I've ever had much reason to go through it, just know 'of' it
<ali1234> tuxgames
<ali1234> http://www.happypenguin.org/
<ali1234> you're not going to find anything amazing though
<Azelphur> aww :p
<ali1234> pc games suck anyway
 * Azelphur slaps
<ali1234> get some emulators and start playing the classics
<SuperEngineer> one word: MAME
<ali1234> and UAE
<SuperEngineer> ok - two words
<ali1234> get UAE and zeewolf
<ali1234> that's a brilliant game
<ali1234> Azelphur: how many of these games have you played? : http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/votes_list.php
<Azelphur> ali1234: 11
 * Azelphur had an Amiga growing up
<Azelphur> when I was about 4 or so I used to just sit there playing lemmings, hitting the nuke button continually and watching them explode, I always did find that hilarious.
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> also how comes gauntlet isn't on that list
<Azelphur> I believe the list is defective!
<ali1234> gauntlet?
<ali1234> because the amiga version was a rubbish port of the c64 version?
<Azelphur> how do you not know gauntlet
<Azelphur> BLASPHEMY
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71zGo_V0kuE
<Azelphur> I spent a lot of time on this :P
<ali1234> there's no way it's in the top 100 though
<ali1234> maybe if you removed duplicates
 * Azelphur shrugs
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur: I have the complete cheat sheet for lemmings - but don't use it, that would be cheating
<Azelphur> lol
 * d0od really wants to play lemmings now
 * SuperEngineer foresees a LemmingsCamp happening at next years oggcamp
<AlanBell> !info pingus
<lubotu3> pingus (source: pingus): Free Lemmings(TM) clone. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.6-1 (precise), package size 777 kB, installed size 2000 kB
<AlanBell> ^^ really quite good
<popey> stoppit!
<popey> I have work to do!
<AlanBell> need to get an R-Type clone in the repos really
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: you may clear mind of doubt... I kmow "do" Pingus instead of Lemmings
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... pingus.... repeat: must stop work & play instead
 * popey hugs R-Type
<popey> might have to get mine out of the loft
<bigcalm_laptop> 3g via usb teather to router shared to my lan. It works at last \o/
<bigcalm_laptop> Virgin Media can suck it and their outages
<daubers> Think I just burnt my thumb on a stupid linear reg
<daubers> memo to self: 12v->3v might want a bigger heat sink
<daubers> Multithreaded stuff does make me giggle when it works hard
<daubers>  5590 matt      20   0 1497m 1.1g 6716 R  392 14.9   4:24.73 nona
<daubers> 392% CPU usage FTW!
 * bigcalm wibbles in
<popey> pip pip
<mgdm> evening sir
<mgdm> (s)
<bigcalm> popey: router works as required, thank you :)
<bigcalm> Will still get around to opening my original router to try and fix it
<bigcalm> Evening mgdm
<bigcalm> Or is popey the sir? :P
<popey> huzzah!
<mgdm> see the (s), it's a plural ;-)
<HDScorpio> Hello, anyone care to help me with a USB issue I have?
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> Oh, I'm back then?
<mgdm> yarr.
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<popey> o/
<AlanBell> want to see my kitchen with hacked camera UI?
<popey> ooh
<popey> gwan
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/ it is totally dark in there
<AlanBell> click to move the camera
<popey> in return you can confirm bug 1065744
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1065744 in unity (Ubuntu) "hover links behind dash draw over the top of the dash edge" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065744
<popey> hahaah
<popey> i may be fighting with someone
<bigcalm> Ghost in the machine ;)
<popey> love it
<popey> want one!
<AlanBell> Â£35 \o/
<AlanBell> and I will put the python web service thing up somewhere
<bigcalm> Tis a very white kitchen
<AlanBell> it is a white kitchen
<AlanBell> I will turn the lights on now
<bigcalm> Thought it was black and white
<bigcalm> And you're all in white!
<bigcalm> Spooky
<AlanBell> that was the IR
<bigcalm> Sweet
<bigcalm> I might have to buy one of those now
<AlanBell> I am very impressed with it
<AlanBell> apart from the GPL violation
<bigcalm> I thought it was a IE only interface
<bigcalm> Oh, who takes the GPL seriously? :(
<AlanBell> no, only the 2 way sound is IE only
<bigcalm> Ah
<AlanBell> there is an activeX control for that
<AlanBell> I have not found what it actually pokes, but when I do I will probably get sound working
<bigcalm> Very clever
<AlanBell> popey: what browser is that using?
<popey> chrome
<popey> chromium too
<AlanBell> not reproduced here
<AlanBell> firefox or chromium
<popey> reproduced what?
<popey> oh, sorry
<AlanBell> your bug
<popey> firefox in that bug
<AlanBell> ok, can't reproduce it
<popey> wonder if it's a launchpad specific thing
<popey> no, happens on G+ too
<AlanBell> I was using the launchpad bug page to try to reproduce it
 * czajkowski peers at the alans breaking LP 
 * AlanBell peers at czajkowski thinking we are breaking LP
<AlanBell> popey is breaking his dash, I am reengineering webcam user interfaces
<AlanBell> the camera can move diagonally too, I have only implemented left and right movements so far
<AlanBell> but it is a lot more intuitive than the original control panel I think
<AlanBell> and it works on my phone
<bigcalm> Sleepy times :)
<popey> time for bed.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-12
<knightwise> hey freedomrun
<freedomrun> yes?
<knightwise> 0/
<freedomrun> knightwise :)
<popey> morning
<knightwise> hey popey
<AlanBell> morning all
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> wifi acting up here
<AlanBell> popey: how do I tell if I am using llvmpipe for unity?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1274472/
<popey> glxinfo
<knightwise> hey AlanBell
<popey> glxinfo | grep renderer
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ironlake Mobile
<popey> so not
<AlanBell> when unity starts it doesn't seem sure about it
<AlanBell> compiz (core) - Info: Unity is not supported by your hardware. Enabling software rendering instead (slow).
<AlanBell> compiz (core) - Info: Unity is fully supported by your hardware.
<popey> heh
<popey> it downgrades the experience now
<popey> to speed things up a bit
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> fewer effects
<popey> the wording is amusing
<knightwise> hmm.. Wallch is a pretty nice app :) Wallpaper changer and stuff
<diplo> Having an issue yesterday and this morning on Quantal, it seems I'm sending / receing lots of data to canonical
<diplo> Yesterday after a reboot it stopped
<popey> knightwise, i use variety
<diplo> 91.189.88.0 - 91.189.95.255
<popey> those are canonical servers, you're on quantal?
<popey> ubuntu one perhaps?
<popey> and the video lens, music lens and shopping stuff goes via those servers
<knightwise> popey: thanx :) i'll look into that also
<diplo> Outgoing rates thoughis 1000-3000 kbits/sec and all I've done is boot up, u1 is already synced
<knightwise> hmm.. looking forward to quantal for hte whole web integration
<diplo> I'll reboot again to see if it stops again
<knightwise> hate having to open up chrome to get to my gmail all the time
<popey> i wouldn't reboot
<popey> that doesnt analyse the issue
<popey> you still need the browser open knightwise
<popey> it only gets your mail if the page is open
<popey> brb
<knightwise> popey: I thought you could "tie in" your google account to the notifier ?
<diplo> OK, as soon as a reboot it basically slows our line down to a crawl before even logging in
<diplo> Need to get some work done first but will start up again later and work my way through it.
<ali1234> knightwise: you can but it only does anything if you have gmail open in a browser
<ali1234> knightwise: there are two gmail notifiers in universe which work how you would expect them to
<ali1234> have been there for years
<knightwise> ali1234: and would those notifiers also take care of picking up the "mailto" links ?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> one of them does that
<knightwise> which one do you recommend ?
<ali1234> it adds gmail as a default application
<knightwise> Wicked
<ali1234> so not just mailto: but also anything that sends email in gnome
<ali1234> you need them both
<ali1234> one does that, the other is the actual tray icon thing
<ali1234> there's actually several now
<ali1234> gnome-gmail is the one for integrating mailto: links
<ali1234> the other one, you have several alternatives
<jacobw> morning
<knightwise> Done :) thanx ali1234
<diplo> actually I need my box now, so I suppose i better find the cause
<diplo> wireshark i guess is my best option
<knightwise> ali1234: works great! :) thanx
<ali1234> diplo: tcpdump -n -A -i eth0
<ali1234> knightwise: np
<diplo> ok ta, just logging in now
<ali1234> that will dump first 65k of every packet in ascii
<ali1234> so it's quite noisy
<ali1234> oh, try netstat -n --protocol=inet too
<ali1234> add -p to that one to see which program it is
<popey> i used wireshark and set a filter to only show http traffic
<ali1234> tcp       38      0 192.168.0.5:57868       91.189.89.218:443       CLOSE_WAIT  25173/rhythmbox
<ali1234> tcp        1      0 192.168.0.5:38840       91.189.89.144:80        CLOSE_WAIT  2932/ubuntu-geoip-p
<ali1234> yeah why is rhythmbox connected to canonical? and why is geoip service running?
<popey> online store in rb?
<ali1234> yeah but i've never opened it
<diplo> http://pastebin.com/kZshCDRX
<ali1234> diplo: add -p to netstat command
<ali1234> but that's rhythmbox
<ali1234> or u1
<ali1234> or something over https
<ali1234> so tcpdump isn't going to reveal much
<diplo> http://pastebin.com/KP71Wad9
<popey> the url at least
<ali1234> that server has a self signed certificate :S
<popey> whoopsie :)
<diplo> Error reporting
<ali1234> ah, you're uploading crash dumps
 * AlanBell tries gnome shell
 * AlanBell likes it rather a lot
<ali1234> rm -rf /var/crash/*
<diplo> OK, but this was happening for houes yesterday
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> crash dumps can be several gigabytes
<popey> and if they never complete.. i.e. if you keep rebooting :)
<diplo> lol 436mb
<diplo> :P
<ali1234> they upload automatically now unless yo click the box that says "don't upload"
<diplo> I didn't yesterday popey
<ali1234> yes, and if something keeps crashing over and over... moar dumps
<popey> be nice to see what was in there before you rm it
<popey> or just move them out the way
<diplo> whoopsie, good thought to late :D
<ali1234> since i switched to gnome i only get skype crashes
<diplo> it was _usr_bin_eog.1000.crash
<ali1234> eye of gnome image (viewer)
<diplo> yeah it seeems
<diplo> It's still doing something as we're still laffing
<diplo> tcp        0 258592 192.168.1.21:54978      91.189.95.55:443        ESTABLISHED -
<popey> maybe whoopsie was uploading
<ali1234> well deleting a file from disk doesn't delete it, if the file is open
<popey> and you didnt stop it before rmming the files
<diplo> yeah
<popey> hence why I was trying to suggest not diving in rebooting, deleting stuff :(
<diplo> It was a very good point
<ali1234> whoopsie is mental
<diplo> Restart of whoopsie has sorted it though
<diplo> I think I know what caused it now though, so I could try and replicate
<ali1234> did anyone ever figure out what the graph on the server (daisy?) even means?
<diplo> EOG opened a fairly large jpg yesterday and crashed
<popey> crashes per day ali1234
<ali1234> yeah it does do that
<popey> if you mean errors.ubuntu.com ?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that makes no sense for two reasons
<ali1234> firstly, the value is 0.04
<ali1234> that's 1 crash every 25 days
<ali1234> seems unlikely
<ali1234> and secondly the graph has markers for every day
<popey> per day per user? :)
<ali1234> but says it is an average
<ali1234> how do you average something over a period equal to sampling period?
<ali1234> effectively implies it's an average of 1 value, which is crazy
 * popey shrugs, I didn't write it
<popey> https://launchpad.net/whoopsie-daisy
<ali1234> it can't be per user, because look at the spike after beta 1
<ali1234> more users = more errors
<diplo> I wish it told me it was uploading that though
<diplo> Or some notification
<ali1234> it does
<ali1234> when the crash happens
<ali1234> it shows a dialogue
<ali1234> sometimes that crashes as well, and then you get two dumps to upload
<popey> yo dawg
<diplo> yeah apport crashed a few times
 * diplo remembers why he doesn't upgrade anymore
<ali1234> i think i'm going to skip 12.10
<ali1234> i'd have to rebuild too many customizations
<popey> 13.04 will be fun
<ali1234> yeah i'll probably skip that one too
<diplo> ali1234: 12.10 is a huge improvement, _huge_ for me anyway
<ali1234> is wayland going to be in 13.04?
<diplo> Runs perfectly at home, apart from I havem't got sound working
<popey> dunno about wayland
<ali1234> afaik it's still proff of concept stuff
<SuperMatt> woo, my pangolin and quetzal t-shirts have arrived
<popey> yeah
<SuperMatt> I think I'll wear the pangolin next wednesday
<SuperMatt> and the quetzal on thursday
<popey> wow, i barely know what I'm wearing today let alone next week
<SuperMatt> or will I look like an idiot wearing a quetzal shirt to the meet up?
<popey> nope
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: you will probably look like several other people
<popey> oh noes _I_ said I was wearing that!
<ali1234> maybe it means "unique errors"
<AlanBell> well gnome shell does appear to be rather good, only problem I can see is the losenge hack means the close button is graphically a bit sub-optimal
<diplo> I forgot thanks guys for the help :)
<knightwise> hey TheOpenSourcerer !
<knightwise> Â°/
<TheOpenSourcerer> meauning
<knightwise> you decided to come out of your coffin at last ?
<knightwise> and embrace the dawn with its glares of glass and cold kitchen floors ?
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<JamesTait> Good meauning, TheOpenSourcerer. :)  Hippy Froday!
<knightwise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBTuq8yjQGo  HAPPY FFFrrrIdaaaay !$
<bigcalm> Ello peeps :)
<knightwise> hey bigcalm
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: I'm feeling a bit crap to be honest. And just had to go and collect my eldest from school as he's unwell too. Probably a NSV that is wandering round the family...
<kirrus> TheOpenSourcerer: you sleep in a coffin? ( knightwise ) .. hope you feel better soon. Sofa day?
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/news/contribution-open-source-europes-economy-450-billion-year
 * AlanBell is in the office, looking at the font garden at home http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/
<popey> haha
<popey> watching it move
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> yup, someone is clicking :)
<popey> want
<knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: its going around, tummybug and stuff
<kirrus> AlanBell: nice control system.. much better than that crappy thing on it by default
<bigcalm> Nice bins
 * TheOpenSourcerer recalls a discussion on "Today" (BBC R4) yesterday morning about the legal issues (data protection etc.) of "home" cameras...
<AlanBell> kirrus: yeah, the default thing is a bit rubbish
<kirrus> AlanBell: are you calling the default thing with your script, or have you hacked it away?
<knightwise> AlanBell: obviously you took out the trasj this morning
<AlanBell> steerable cameras should not be put up in a public place apparently
<gord> "failed exceeding max clients", everyone else get off AlanBells camera! i want to see his garden!
<knightwise> I just made it move
<bigcalm> Black hole sun
 * knightwise feels like god
<AlanBell> gord: I just shut mine
<AlanBell> kirrus: default thing
<bigcalm> I've closed it as well
<bigcalm> What's the bandwidth useage like?
<AlanBell> kirrus: it gets the video stream as guest:guest passed in on the URL, the server side script authenticates as admin to control it
<kirrus> AlanBell: neat
<AlanBell> bigcalm: not entirely sure, but I have oodles
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> haha plug
<AlanBell> yup
<bigcalm> I forget, is it wifi or ethernet connected?
<AlanBell> wifi
<bigcalm> I could put on in my garage then :D
<popey> is it noisy
<popey> ?
<AlanBell> you need to ethernet connect it to configure it and set up the wifi password
<AlanBell> very quiet
<gord> does it go all the way around 360?
<AlanBell> and the night vision is brilliant, but doesn't go through glass
<bigcalm> gord: no
<AlanBell> gord: nope
<popey> can you capture?
<gord> aww, i was going to write a script that would constantly spin it day and night :(
<knightwise> does it turn 360 degrees
<AlanBell> over 180 degrees of movement and goes high and low
<knightwise> you know , when there is nothing on the telly we can spy on you
<popey> hack it so it can
<knightwise> lol popey :) *evil Grin*
<AlanBell> popey: yes, can be captured
<gord> put it on a turntable with the motor controlled by an arduino
<knightwise> and set it to 45 rpm ?
<AlanBell> gord: this costs Â£35, get two back to back
<AlanBell> you can mount it upside down and flip the image too
<popey> stick it on your car and go streetviewing
<gord> oh, set up a script that can pick up moving objects (there are a few binaries that does that) that then moves the camera to track the object to freak out the mail man
<knightwise> LOL :)
<bigcalm> I don't think the response and speed of movement would be good enough for that
<AlanBell> gord: I did thing of openCV to do that
<knightwise> and put a poster from "BIG BROTHER" above the cam
<AlanBell> bigcalm: it could do
<bigcalm> AlanBell: get cracking then :D
<bigcalm> I should find my usb rocket launcher
<AlanBell> I have to do some real work :)
<bigcalm> Pah
<AlanBell> however I might blog this
<bigcalm> Yes, you should
<AlanBell> I have a suspicion that the mjpeg stream will work on planet ubuntu too :)
<gord> oh oh, attach laser pointer to the camera, attach camera to a cat. remote control cat
<popey> http://www.firebox.com/product/2510/FroliCat-BOLT?video_id=2787&tab1=0#videos_h
<popey> frolicat!
<diplo> AlanBell: I think I'm going to get 1 or 2 myself, you going to stick the code on LP or something when you're done ?
<bigcalm> popey: yay, that's my parents' cat's xmas present sorted for this year
<bigcalm> Oh, not available. Arse
<AlanBell> diplo: sure
<diplo> great thanks
<bigcalm> popey: slightly cheaper on amazon and in stock. Hope the cat has fun
<MartijnVdS> http://www.google.com/patents/US5443036
<bigcalm> ...
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: don't worry, patent is from '75, it's expired
<Myrtti> I haven't really looked into it, but does the login manager remember what session a user prefers to use? ie. I like Unity, my sister likes XFCE4, does it automatically choose the right one for me?
<bigcalm> Reading what patents will be awarded for really depresses me
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I think it does, it uses some file in your ~
<bigcalm> Myrtti: yes
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I use xubuntu-desktop, the guest user uses Unity
<Myrtti> that's good.
<Myrtti> I might do an update on my sister's computer today then
<Myrtti> move her over to XFCE4
<knightwise> Myrtti: xfce is very pretty these days
<knightwise> I ran it on a G4 iMac I have around the house
<Myrtti> I know, I used to run it a year ago myself
<Myrtti> then Unity lured me over
<Myrtti> I'm pretty sure I don't have patience to tweak Gnome3 based stuff to look like Windows 98 so I'll just move her to XFCE4
<bigcalm> I want to use Unity, I really do. I feel I'm letting the side down. But I'm more productive with xfce (and unity doesn't work with my 3 monitor set-up)
<knightwise> bigcalm: I"m enjoying it so far , i remapped some buttons so the launcher responds as if it where spotlight (i run i on the mac)
<jacobw> i wish the mate project was better
<SuperMatt> I just can't use gnome2-alikes any more
<popey> I booted 10.04 the other day to test the upgrade... wow.. that was fugly
<jacobw> after solving the namespace problems, the only thing gnome2 preservation project should have to do is deal with API breakages between gnome2 and all it's dependencies
<jacobw> which i have no idea of the scale of :)
<bittin^work> popey think i updated from like 11.04 to 12.04 when i reinstalled Ubuntu on my new PC :>
<bittin^work> but thinking of getting new discs for the 12.10 release
<davmor2> Morning all
<jacobw> morning davmor2
<bittin^work> Morning davmor2
<jonathonf> does anyone here have any experience of extracting information from the developer of a legacy system you've been asked to write a web front-end to?
<Darael> Well, first you get a length of rubber hose...
<jacobw> find out if their using a sane data structure or not
<AlanBell> jonathonf: yeah, fun :)
<jacobw> i.e, is it a SQL database that you can look at and guess what each field is?
<ali1234> jonathonf: i've a lot of experience in that kind of thing, actually
<ali1234> i don't bother with the developer, i just reverse engineer it
<jonathonf> the rubber hose sounds good... the mssql database used is crazy, supposed to have stored procedures but there's a lot of duplication, and some functionality seems to be hidden in his VB code which i don't have access to :D
<Laney> tried to have a peep inside AlanBell's house, failed
<jonathonf> ali1234: that was my first thought :)
<czajkowski> I read that from Laney as tried to have a pee inside AlanBell's house
<ali1234> mssql databases always have loads of duplication
<popey> i did that and broke his toilet
<popey> well, sam did
<AlanBell> heh
<czajkowski> lol
<AlanBell> wonder if the postman will be caught on camera
<czajkowski> poor sam give him a complex
<Daviey> popey: wouldn't flush the payload?
<Daviey> a 'popey special'
<jonathonf> this is the first time i've done this sort of thing; what sort of timescale would normally be reasonable (i know it will depend on the project etc. but weeks/months)?
<popey> user interface broke
<AlanBell> it now has an improved UI
<popey> I did try to patch it
<Daviey> popey: failed rebuild test?
<popey> Soon I won't be allowed to AlanBells house.
<popey> So far broken one ironing board and one toilet
<popey> and terrorised a chicken
<AlanBell> all true
<popey> Daviey, failed QA
<czajkowski> popey: as did Jon with the chicken, poor things get peace when AlanBell has no visitors
<Daviey> popey: acceptance testing noticed it, after the developer tried to sneak in their cowboy fix?
<popey> thats nearer the mark
<davmor2> popey: don't make me come down there and show you how to break stuff
 * popey plays Journey of the Sorcerer (again)
 * popey hugs grooveshark
<daubers> popey: Awesome bit of banjo work in that
<daubers> popey: If you can find the original eagles version it's much much much awesomeness
<daubers> and the Grooveshark versions hurt my ears and make me sad :(
<ali1234> jonathonf: what does it have to do?
<daubers> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rOMGIbY-9s
<popey> yeah
 * popey wonders why AlanBell is sideways on G+
 * AlanBell wonders that also
<AlanBell> it just changed all by itself
<gord> i thought you'd done it
<gord> i didn't ask for fear of looking stupid
<AlanBell> I wonder if shotwell/picassa did it
<ali1234> jonathonf: figuring out the database shouldn't take you more than 1 day per table...
<popey> how is grooveshark completely free?
<bigcalm> I was wondering that myself
<jonathonf> 1) adverts 2) they sell your listening habits
<jonathonf> afaict
 * popey sees no adverts \o/
<gord> i can't work out why i have to pay to listen to spotify on my mobile, but listening to spotify on my laptop teathered from my mobile does not
<mgdm> it's a business rather than a technical decision
<Daviey> It could well be a licencing decision aswell.
<Daviey> Ie, not THIER biz decision, but the labels.
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/10/12/back-to-school-in-limerick/  me almost 18 years ago :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: what the hell happened you don't look the slightest bit evil there :D
<daubers> davmor2: That was before the community stuff colour changed
<czajkowski> davmor2: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/256700293805379584/photo/1
<davmor2> czajkowski: making yourself look cute when you were younger just makes you look more evil now stop while your ahead ;)
<czajkowski> hah
<czajkowski> I am nice I'm not evil
<davmor2> czajkowski: oh stop doing the evil laugh while typing things like that and people might believe you :D
 * daubers gives up and puts the muppet movie soundtrack on
<gord> as a software developer and a nerd, i refuse to accept anything other than a logical decision
<popey> AlanBell, how much current does that camera draw?
<daubers> gord: muppets = awesome therefore listen to muppets soundtracks?
<davmor2> daubers: manamanam da dah da darra
<bigcalm> My boss miss-spelt my name as Ian in an email just now. Should I reply and spell his name as Dareen?
<jonathonf> "Darn", surely? .)
<bigcalm> Too late, I corrected my typo
<bigcalm> jonathonf: heh, should have been that
<davmor2> bigcalm: no just WHO?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I think you mean whom? :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: no that would be "To whom do you think you are talking to". "Who?" would be perfectly correct in that instance :P
<gord> half the emails i get are actually forwarded emails that just contain "Actually sent to the correct address", because no one can spell Allott
<bigcalm> davmor2: bah
<mgdm> My last name is not unusual in Scotland, but people botch it. (I'll let people not from Scotland away with botching it, I suppose). My firstname is not unusual in the UK, though, and people still get it wrong
<davmor2> mgdm: it's the temptation to put McLean I guess
<mgdm> yeah, that or McClean
<bigcalm> Michel?
<mgdm> I'm not French
<davmor2> mgdm: but that would then become Mac-Clean and we thought you loved Ubuntu now we hear that you are a Mac Cleaner ;)
<mgdm> haha
 * mgdm is actually talking to you from a Mac
<mgdm> (well, via an Ubuntu server with irssi + tmux)
<davmor2> muhahahahahahaahahahaha
<jussi> mgdm: here is a cookie to make you feel better for having to use evilware :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: I hope you took in a note to explain your 18 year absence?
<jussi> davmor2: hehe
<mgdm> jussi: the really rather nice 27" screen is compensation enough. Though I do like cookies
<czajkowski> mgdm: welcome to my world of misspelling surnames!
<czajkowski> davmor2: :p
<jussi> mgdm: I have a nice 26" screen :P
<davmor2> czajkowski, mgdm: no one can spell mine right unless I happen to be near Leeds
<mgdm> without looking it up, Morley?
 * mgdm isn't near Leeds
<christel> COOKIES
<bigcalm> And cream
<christel> nah just cookies
<jussi> definitely cream also
<jussi> or scones, with jam and double cream.... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<bigcalm> Clotted cream!
<jussi> +++++++++++++++++++++
<daubers> jussi: With a nice mug of freshly brewed leaf tea?
<jussi> daubers: yup
<daubers> ace
<davmor2> mgdm: Yeap but I get Moorly, Morely, Moreley, Mooreley, Morlee, Morliegh (once) but the first 3 are the most common
<jussi> I just wish we could get clotted cream here....
<jussi> davmor2: yeah, I would make the morely mistake :P
<mgdm> davmor2: blimey
<mgdm> I bet czajkowski gets some funny spellings
 * mgdm hugs the tab key
<czajkowski> lol
<jussi> most people forget the c in my name, and put nik instead of ink
<davmor2> jussi: there is a place in cornwall that will ship a cornish scone teas complete with clotted cream :)
<jussi> oh, and people outside of finland can rarely spell jussi
<jussi> davmor2: to finland?
<czajkowski> davmor2: when down in dorset during the summer I was given clotted cream I said no thanks, got a lotta strange looks for that
<davmor2> jussi: they don't specify a destination but they get a lot of Americans visit
<jussi> davmor2: link pls
<davmor2> jussi: it's just a shop I've been in on holiday there I'll ask the wife and see if we can find you a link
<jussi> ok, thanks.
<christel> people seem to struggle more with saying my name than writing it
<davmor2> jussi: you can try these guys direct https://shop.roddas.co.uk/ they currently say â We can deliver to all UK postcodes, including Northern Ireland and the Channel Islands. Weâre afraid to say weâre not able to deliver outside the UK right now, but weâre working on it. while I continue tracking down the shop
<bigcalm> Or you could go to a super market and buy some scones, clotted cream and strawberry jam
<bigcalm> Which I'm tempted to do now
<jussi> bigcalm: no clotted cream here...
<davmor2> bigcalm: he's not in the UK dude
<bigcalm> jussi: ah, you're back in Soumi?
<jussi> suomi, yes
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> My spelling really sucks, sorry
<jussi> lol
<bigcalm> It was amazing when we found a baker in Kyoto that sold Finnish savouries
<bigcalm> Which I now want
<bigcalm> Damn it
<bigcalm> And I can't remember what they are called
<davmor2> jussi: http://www.cornishcream.com/ you might want to try these guys I checked their http://www.cornishcream.com/t/termsandconditions#shipping and it list outside the UK
<bigcalm> http://www.cornishpasties.org.uk/otherpasties/finnish/finnishkarelianpasty.jpg
<bigcalm> I'm a sucker for those
<jussi> lol
<bigcalm> Aha, there it is Karelian Pies
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelian_pasties
<bigcalm> In cooking measurements, what's dl?
<Darael> decilitres, at a guess.  100ml.
<jonathonf> 10ml, isn't it?
<jonathonf> 100ml is 1cl?
<mgdm> 10ml, yes
<Darael> Um.  No, 10ml is 1cl.
<jonathonf> ah yes
<jonathonf> 70cl bottle of whisky
<jonathonf> :D
<Darael> Centi- is 1/100.
<mgdm> yeah, brain not working this morning
<bigcalm> Going to have a go at making these tomorrow: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Karjalanpiirakat
<jonathonf> so why in a recipe use 1dl instead of saying 100ml? -.-
 * bigcalm shrugs
<Darael> Different conventions?  Save two characters?  Who knows.
<bigcalm> So 3dl is 300ml?
<Darael> Assuming my guess that dl means decilitres is correct, yes.
<bigcalm> Darael: in the context of the URL I just pasted...
<Darael> Is a volume measurement (as opposed to, say, a weight one) plausible?
<bigcalm> Sounds about right
<Darael> Loving the random use of 1,5 litres for the first ingredient when the next two are in dl.
<Darael> Oh, I'm sorry.  0,5, which is even odder.
<bigcalm> Time to go shopping ;)
<christel> a decilitre is 100 ml yeah
<christel> continental europe loves decilitres
<davmor2> bigcalm: no a decilitre is only 10ml so 3dl would be 30ml surely
<christel> davmor2: no a dl is 100ml, there's 10 decilitres in a litre
<Darael> davmor2: A /centi/litre is 10ml.  The prefixes refer to fractions of a litre, not numbers of ml.
<christel> indeed, what Darael says
<Darael> Besides, 30ml of pudding rice doesn't sound plausible for even /one/ pastie, let alone several, which is what the recipe seems to be for.
<davmor2> christel: ah I know why I was think CM DM is 10 centimetres but would indeed be 100MM I stand corrected
<jonathonf> i hate centimetres
<AlanBell> furlongs ftw
<jonathonf> millimetres is a proper unit
<jonathonf> :D
<jonathonf> though a metre isn't a proper constant
<christel> AlanBell: no, i am really short in furlongs :(
<daubers> jonathonf: It really is these days
<jonathonf> oh, wait, they're defined it by the speed of light
<davmor2> jonathonf: technically micron is the units we should all use but then you can't see them MM are pretty small too which is why CM is the default :)
<AlanBell> christel: 0.00896464646 furlongs
<daubers> Pah, if you want to use _real_ units, start using planck lengths instead
<davmor2> christel: we are all really short in furlongs
<christel> AlanBell: you win!
<christel> i am impressed with your most accurate knowledge of my height in furlong!
<AlanBell> accurate to within a few tenths of a microfurlong I believe
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1 furlong = 1.24469821 Ã 1037 planck lengths
<Darael> 1037 or 10^37?
<AlanBell> my favorite unit of length is the smoot
<TheOpenSourcerer> ^
<zleap> is 1 micron something like 10-3mm
<zleap> 10^-3 i meant
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1 furlong = 118.208955 smoot
<daubers> AlanBell: My favourite unit ever is the Barn
<davmor2> christel: if you feel any better 6 feet 2 inches = 0.00934343434 furlongs
<Darael> micron == micrometre, so yes, zleap.
<zleap> thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1 (sq furlong) = 4.04685642 Ã 10^32 Barn
<zleap> i am sure engineering = mm anyway or you would express things in mm
<jussi> so theres a unit called a barn... how about a barn door? :P  :P :P
<zleap> so what is a barn (in terms of units)
<Darael> It depends on what one is engineering, surely!  For a lot of structural work, metres makes more sense, to avoid ludicrous numbers.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: I just like the history :) 1 Barn is ~ the size of a uranium nucleus as people on the Manhattern project referred to it being "As big as a barn"
<AlanBell> 10^-28 m^2 zleap
<zleap> Darael, yeah but for small things
<davmor2> my step son prefers to work in millions of an inch to microns it's more accurate for a measure apparently I know nothing of these things though
<Darael> zleap: Still depends.  In elec-eng it can be useful to use um or nm, no?
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> esp for circuit boards
<AlanBell> Microsoft made up a relatively clever one for OOXML (problem was they invented it and stuffed it in the standard, not that it was a bad idea)
<TheOpenSourcerer> as a cabinet maker I used to work in 10ths of a millimetre or, occasionally ,thousandths of an inch
<AlanBell> the EMU, English Metric Unit
<daubers> AlanBell: Surely defining an EIU and AIU would be a better idea? (Since a lot of american imperial measurements don't match english ones)
<AlanBell> http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2007/04/what_is_an_emu.html
<zleap> i don't mind either imperial or metric
<christel> davmor2: no, i am stil lshorter :(
<AlanBell> daubers: it *could* have been an interesting unit to have as an SI standard thing that would have been referenced in OOXML, but they defined it inside OOXML instead
<daubers> meh, just use nm/mm/cm/m :) Much more sensible
<Darael> Let's mess with /everyone/ and use metric inches.
<Darael> Or attoparsecs.
<daubers> Darael: But if you really want to mess with people, use Parsec as a measurement of time (a la star wars
<daubers> )
<jonathonf> pah, i measured star wars in less than 12 parsecs...
<jacobw> parsecs?
<jacobw> nevermind me :)
<davmor2> christel: but it's a lot harder to tell :D
<gord> websites that show a popup asking if you want to go to the "Uk site as its super cool and awesome!" then just take you to the .co.uk site without taking you to the bit you were on, are basically the worst thing in the world ever
<jonathonf> it is kind of accurate, though. they only ask if you want to go to the uk site, not the uk page
<ali1234> grooveshark did that to me earlier
<popey> hey video card nerds...
<popey> i want to put a cheap nvidia card in my desktop
<ali1234> "it looks like flash stopped responding, want to try the html5 version?" and then it just takes you to the top of the site, not the song you were trying to listen to
<popey> i have an old 7900GT, but that needs a 6 pin power connector
<popey> my psu doesn't have one
<daubers> jacobw: A parsec is an astronomical measure of distance
<popey> is it safe to just get an adapter?
<popey> to convert 4 pin or something/
<daubers> Can't remember what voltage the 6 pins run on...
<ahayzen> popey, my old one didn't have one i just got a Molex -> 6 pin and that worked fine :)...but i am no 'video card nerd'
<popey> http://www.maplin.co.uk/pci-express-power-converter-46857
<ahayzen> popey, i had something similar to that for my 8800 GTS
<ali1234> my 5870 has two of the 4 pin ones
<popey> yeah, my newer card has two
<ali1234> and it came with two dual moxel -> 4 pin adapters
<popey> hence me using this old one
<popey> hmm, wonder if there's a converter in my old desktop
<ali1234> i plugged all 4 of the molex into the same branch from the power supply and it works fine
<ali1234> actually i only used one, because the branch had 2 molex and a 4 pin thing on it
<daubers> Yeah, you'll need dual molex as it wants moar lots of 12v than a single molex
<ahayzen> popey, the only thing I would say it is probably fine using a converter as long as the wattage of the PSU is high enough my one was only 550W which wasn't enough
<ali1234> i have a 400W power supply
<ali1234> i use the system for bitcoin mining
<ali1234> it never goes over 200W at the wall
<ali1234> 550W PSU is for people who have two video cards and 8 hard drives
<popey> 350W
<daubers> heh, wondered how they got away with 2 molex when it should have 3 +12v lines, and 2 molex gives you two. That maplin adapter misses out the middle +12v
<gord> 350w sounds low
<ahayzen> ali1234, my 550W died :(
<popey> yeah,it's an el-cheapo zoostorm thing
<gord> plug it in and see what happens
<popey> I'll skip it for now
<gord> keep a bag nearby to catch the magic blue smoke just incase
<ali1234> well... i have a relatively good 400W
<popey> heh
<popey> was just a thought
<ali1234> not a 250W labelled as a 800W :)
<popey> sounds like something Azelphur would buy on ebay :)
<ali1234> but seriously though
<ali1234> i'm running it off effectively a single wire
<ali1234> they might as well not have bothered with the multiple connectors
<ali1234> and it's been running 24/7 for over a year
<ali1234> so if it was going to catch fire it would have by now
<gord> also the worst thing in the world? websites that claim my gmail address +foobar is not a valid email address
<popey> gord+1
<ali1234> gord: yes that happened to me too, i complained to the website owners and they fixed it
<popey> worse is when they do accept it, then later redesign their site so they don't
<popey> and you can't login
<ali1234> yeah, that's what happened to me
<gord> ha
<ali1234> you can insert extra random . into your gmail address btw
<ali1234> eg a.j.b.u.x.t.o.n@gmail.com
<ali1234> this can be used on websites that don't accept + although obviously you are limited to 2^(n-1) combinations
<DJones> bigcalm: How are you finding your S3? just debating whether to upgrade to one
<popey> are there any PCIE cards worth having which have passive cooling?
<popey> over and above an i7
<popey> http://www.anandtech.com/show/5150/zotac-introduces-passively-cooled-gts-450-zone-edition   #lolsink
<gord> gpus do too much to passively cool really
<gord> unless you downclock like crazy maybe
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zotac-Express-600MHz-1200MHz-Graphics/dp/B006E0WSR8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1350046864&sr=8-3
<gord>  but that feels like a waste of money
<popey> I just want something better than i7 really
<popey> nothing stupid
<gord> y'know what, i have a spare gtx260, maybe i could bring that to ... uh... wherever we are going
<gord> i forget
<77CABNA9J> rocking Jonathan Coulton the 30 last minutes at work before the weekend :)
<77CABNA9J> IKEA IKEA IKEA!, if you don't have a home you can buy one there (music)
<jonathonf> meatballs... tasty...
<77CABNA9J> http://open.spotify.com/album/0eW4vkDVxqS4U60ExzsKhR
<bigcalm> DJones: I really enjoy having it as a mobile computer device in my pocket. On the rare occasions that I do make phone calls, it works very well. The screen is bright and clear. I haven't had any storage problem yet and still use the internal memory. Only annoyance is having to use a window machine to upgrade the firmware
<davmor2> popey: so what you want is an i8u-butler
<Flashtek> anyone in here make use of a dsl modem attached to an ethernet router ?
<jonathonf> yes
<bigcalm> I used to
 * bigcalm hugs cable
<jonathonf> or in my case, a wnr3500l connected to a wrt54gl connected to a billion 7800n modem
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd hug my cable too but it would likely meet up at some junction box and kill both of our connections :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: that does sound a little creepy
<Flashtek> I am going to, later on today or tomorrow morning, remove my Netgear "thing" and put a tp-link TD-8816 on the WAN end of my RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/ spot what is missing
<popey> the cam?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The trampoline
<popey> i see no image
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> popey: refresh and you should proably see the back of the tumble dryer
<AlanBell> trouble is with that camera you need a 240 degree cone of clean
<ahayzen> AlanBell, your camera makes weird affects when looking at the sun lol...it goes black ;)
<popey> dont look into the sun!
<ahayzen> it wasn't me!
<AlanBell> do not look at sun with remaining eye
<ahayzen> someone else is in control =-O
<77CABNA9J> home i go!
<popey> so cool
<ahayzen> AlanBell, anyways that camera is pretty awesome :)
<AlanBell> I am staggered at the price of the thing still
<ahayzen> AlanBell, it is awesome :) ..should set up one @ my uni hall window. Who know wht u would see out the window ;)
<AlanBell> for a computer running linux, plus a camera, plus two motors, plus the night vision, plus two way audio, plus all the plastic and stuff, shipped from the far east for Â£35
<ahayzen> blimey
<popey> Â£33.76
<davmor2> AlanBell: I like the new and improved clicky guidance however you might want to think about puting a marker on each of the 0 points for up, down, left and right
<popey> Thank you, your order has been placed.
<AlanBell> davmor2: there are 192 points on the overlay
<AlanBell> 16x12 grid clickable image map over a 640x480 image
<AlanBell> but yeah, there is more UI stuff that could be done
<bigcalm> AlanBell: is there a reason why you don't mention the make/model of the camera in your blog post? Or you have and I've missed it
<popey> there's loads of el-cheapo cameras from .cn in that form factor
<popey> lots of different chipsets inside too
<AlanBell> bigcalm: no particular reason, I linked to the specific model on the cam page
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Ok
<popey> you're better off buying one from a link that you know someone else has bought
<popey> guy at ex-work had one, and managed to brick it very easily
<bigcalm> Thank you, your order has been placed.
<AlanBell> \o/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: you need to wash your windows ;)
<bigcalm> As do I :S
<AlanBell> yeah, the light isn't great there either
<AlanBell> http://www.rewont.com/web/firmwaredownload.html is the firmware, (actually the camera reports a higher version number than published)
<bigcalm> So the IR works but not though a window?
<bigcalm> Somebody is casing the joint
<AlanBell> https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=d4da438e8557806d&id=D4DA438E8557806D!153 jqr_3.2.2.18.bin is kind of like a tar file, anyone know what exactly it is?
<bigcalm> I wonder if it would cope outside but in an enclosure
<AlanBell> it would cope fine I expect, if you can get power to it
<AlanBell> I was thinking of putting it outside, I might do so now for a bit . . .
<bigcalm> The alternative is to set up IR lights outside and keep the cam in the garage looking though the windows
<ahayzen> the camera is being attacked!
<Flashtek> lol
<AlanBell> hmm, might be out of wifi range
<soreau> AlanBell: cool
<soreau> now go outside and do a dance for us ;)
<gord> wouldn't that just make it rain?
 * mattt makes it rain
<SuperMatt> I WANNA KNOW WHAT LOVE IT
<SuperMatt> I WANT YOU TO SHOW ME
<SuperMatt> sorry, the radio in the office took over my soul
<SuperMatt> http://ubuntuone.com/0wSvJvmxB9JvDv8zVf4k1A <- I hate this
<davmor2> SuperMatt: Why?
<SuperMatt> I'm running the beta, and I like *new* things
<SuperMatt> I always despise the months after a release becasue I rarely get new shinys
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you dipstick
<SuperMatt> yes?
<popey> haha
<popey> we'll add some shiny for you SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> hooray!
<bigcalm> I like a stable system :D
<popey> stable shmable
<popey> we should switch to rolling release
<popey> developer submits a patch, we build immediately and roll that sucker out!
<gord> as a part of my job for the last three years i've constantly been on the bleeding edge of ubuntu, just as it gets stable they make me switch out for the dev version... its not fun
<davmor2> gord: you love it you know you do
<SuperMatt> I normally jump on to the alphas around alpha 2. I don't care if it's a little flaky
<popey> % <---- world's smallest ASCII violin for gord
<SuperMatt> hurr
<SuperMatt> I can make it smaller
<SuperMatt> ctrl+-
<gord> no unicode character?
<davmor2> popey: damn you now I will always see that as a violin
<bigcalm> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f3bb/index.htm
<Azelphur> popey: :o, I don't buy cheap PSUs, I'm captain overkill remember
<Azelphur> corsair AX1200 \o/
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> I also have a bunch of CX600's for my bitcoin rig
<directhex> overkill on PSUs is bad
<directhex> power supplies have an optimal load level, if the load is below that then their efficiency drops off pretty fast
<directhex> also above a certain level
<Azelphur> directhex: yea, it's around 60% isn't it? I reckon I'm hitting that.
<Azelphur> http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/4482079
<directhex> yeah, ~60, good guess
<directhex> http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=10583
<Azelphur> it's a juice guzzler :P
<directhex> hah. still tied to socket 1366 too, eh?
<Azelphur> yea, I built it a couple days before sandy bridge was announced
<Azelphur> xD
<directhex> price on socket 1366 chips = craaaazy :'(
<Azelphur> but can always upgrade
<directhex> i'm enormously tempted to treat myself to a new 1440p monitor
<directhex> and a gpu to drive it
<davmor2> Azelphur: how is your bitcoin rig going by the way
<Azelphur> davmor2: great, I ordered new ASICs which will be up and running soon, so the current hardware is obsolete and I'm selling it off.
<bigcalm> Is it wrong to nom Rennie like sweets?
<christel> yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: yes
<bigcalm> Oh well :)
<bigcalm> Not treating them as sweets, just seem to be getting through a lot of them
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd change your diet if you are getting through that many
<bigcalm> davmor2: tis the work :)
<bigcalm> I look forward to doing nothing at all this weekend
<davmor2> I bet you do something in the end
<bigcalm> Humf
<bigcalm> I might breath a little
<davmor2> bigcalm: and sleep, and eat, and blink, and heart beat, and move about, and drink, and...........
<bigcalm> Maybe, we'll see how I feel
<bigcalm> I should get around to replacing my router with the one I configured last night. I can now share my phone's 3g connection across the whole lan (or will be able to once I move over to it)
<bigcalm> It's now 16:53 and I have only just opened a terminal to my dev server - one of those days :S
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: 7 minutes to get some work in...
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: my day is contracted to finish at 6pm
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: bah
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: very much so
<popey> arent rennie basically just chalk?
<bigcalm> popey: as far as I know, yes
<bigcalm> I'm guessing that it's better than drinking lots of Gaviscon
<gord> they should really make medicine in cake form
<popey> or japanese sweets
<popey> you'd be set
<gord> the last delivery was a DIY rice panda, you made a panda out of chemicals that made a rice like substance and then had more chemicals that made a water substance that tasted like soy sauce, then you dipped the panda into the "soy sauce", it was great
<davmor2> gord: we obviously need to find you more to do if you have that kinda freetime ;)
<DefoeNo5_> Hi
<AlanBell> hi DefoeNo5_
<DefoeNo5_> Thanks for letting me know about this channel!
<DefoeNo5_> What is the current /topic on here?
<AlanBell> chickens \o/
<AlanBell> but other people talk about Ubuntu too
<DefoeNo5_> I was wondering about UK events or meetups that take place?
<AlanBell> ooh, and parties
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/
<AlanBell> 27 people coming to the one next week
<DefoeNo5_> I want to get more involved but donÂ´t know where to begin
<directhex> hm, i can't find the order for when i bought the RAM for my PC
<Azelphur> anyone know where to get some nice cheap nfc stickers?
<davmor2> directhex: I can help you there, it will be in the last place you look and find it....hope that helps
<AlanBell> Azelphur: got some business cards the other day from moo and they came with an nfc card
<AlanBell> I have nfc what to do with it :)
<directhex> Date   	16/01/2009 14:39:07
<directhex> Intel i7 920, Socket 1366 (B), Neha       1      Â£204.99
<Azelphur> AlanBell: you can use them for profiles which would be cool, I'd like to put a sticker on my Nexus 7 stand so it starts up the clock app (I use it as a bedside clock)
<AlanBell> don't think Galaxy S2 does nfc
<Azelphur> and perhaps one on my desk to shut up what I like to call the megaping.
<Azelphur> get message on google talk -> OH GOD EVERY SINGLE DEVICE IN THE ROOM IS PINGING AT ME
<popey> my phone is rarely out of silent mode
<Azelphur> popey: haha, I really want to be able to route calls through my PC's headset
<Azelphur> that'd make me a happy camper
<gord> could you not get a bluetooth .. thing. and just tell the phone that your pc is a bluetooth headset?
<Azelphur> gord: Windows can do it, Linux is bugged atm so can't
<Azelphur> although apparently that's been fixed now, so I should try again
<Azelphur> bug 1026378
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1026378 in bluez (Ubuntu) "HSP/HFP Audio source not showing up in pactl list" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026378
<Azelphur> nope, bot doesn't like me
 * AlanBell voids warrantees
 * Azelphur voids AlanBell
<directhex> aha. kingston valueram.
<directhex> huh, never thought i'd be using that
<Azelphur> I have piles of it XD
<shauno> Azelphur, you seem just the person for this one ;)  any suggestions for a household material for creating a cooling duct?  (about to try notepaper, but I suspect good odds of smoke)
<directhex> so for an upgrade, i need 3x2GB PC3-8500 CL7 DDR3
<Azelphur> shauno: moving heat around is very difficult
<directhex> Azelphur: i totally don't remember what RAm i bought in early 2009
<Azelphur> generally any piping type effort just results in heating up the pipe and then heating the room that the heat was already in anyway.
<directhex> heh, it was probably http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Valueram-1066MHz-Registered-Thermal/dp/B001O7XA1Y/ref=sr_1_9?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1350061735&sr=1-9
<shauno> I have a chassis fan 2" away from a 'fanless' cpu.  the machine originally had a plastic duct that tunnelled the two.  I appear to have lost one of said ducts :/
<Azelphur> ah, so your only looking short distance
<directhex> cen't believe i paid for CL7 when DDR3 was still newish
<directhex> then got *low budget* CL7 :D
<directhex> then again i originally got a low-budget X58 board
<directhex> which didn't work
<directhex> all three times
<Azelphur> shauno: then yea, maybe PVC from a plumbing store or something
<Azelphur> I bet you could find a good replacement there
<directhex> might be easier/cheaper to get 3x4GB of CL9 nowadays rather than trying to source another 3x2GB 7-7-7-20 on the cheap
<Azelphur> directhex: you need that kingston valuram 1066?
<Azelphur> I have piles of it for sale
<Azelphur> literally exactly that ram
<directhex> Azelphur: which stuff *exactly*?
<Azelphur> lemme get the box, one sec
<directhex> trade for a used 120G SSD :p
<Azelphur> KVR1066D3N7/2G, 2GB PC3-8500 CL7
<Azelphur> DDR3 1066
<directhex> huh, yeah, whodathunkit?
<directhex> 1.5V?
<Azelphur> I'd imagine so, that's the model number there so you should be able to look everything up
<directhex> yes. http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/kvr1066d3n7_2g.pdf
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> I have 6 of them
<directhex> that is exactly the ram i'm using. weird ._.
<Azelphur> they are in my bitcoin rigs, that I'm selling off
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> what SSD is it?
<directhex> er, ocz agility 3. cash is fine too
<Azelphur> yea, don't like agility particularly
<Azelphur> I'm asking Â£5 a chip + pnp, I'm also selling all this stuff if any of it takes your fancy http://www.reddit.com/r/hardwareswap/comments/106y5z/uk_selling_loads_of_assorted_parts_5870s_6990/
<directhex> Â£5 a stick? i'll take 3.
<Azelphur> cool :)
<shauno> hm, I think trying to get plumbing materials to fit would be a tight squeeze.  there's not a whole lot of room  (1U boxes)  (looks like http://cl.ly/image/2B3F0v1z0305 - original duct looks like http://cl.ly/image/2f1B252Q0E1m )
<directhex> about five quid for RMSD?
<Azelphur> RMSD?
<directhex> royal mail special delivery
<Azelphur> ah yea, something like that
<directhex> bump the rig up to 12G, that'll be fancy pants!
<directhex> so twenty squid. paypal?
<Azelphur> sure, anything else on that list interest you? XD
<directhex> not unless you have a socket 1366 chip cheap ;)
<Azelphur> not right now, I might do in the future
<directhex> currently thinking i'll buy a gtx670 and 1440p monitor for xmas
<Azelphur> oO, one of the korean imports? I have 4 of those
<directhex> paypal address?
<Azelphur> azelphur@azelphur.com
<Azelphur> I won't be able to send it out until monday most likely
<directhex> Azelphur: the korean imports don't do hdcp etc, so no. but you can get a "proper" one from ocuk with the same panel for Â£400
<Azelphur> Post offices close real early on saturday, and not at all on sunday here
<Azelphur> directhex: ah, I paid Â£200 for mine
<directhex> Azelphur: yeah, but i *need* multiple inputs incl. displayport and need hdcp
<Azelphur> directhex: you can get those from korea too
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.com/itm/27-Inch-Matrix-Neo-270WQ-Multi-DP-Port-HDMI-1-4a-2560x1440-WQHD-S-IPS-Monitor-/150866560995?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item23205907e3
<Azelphur> this is the same monitor from the same guy I bought from, but the version with displayport
<directhex> Jo, you have sent Â£20.00 GBP to Alfie Day.
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> yep got it, I'll aim to get those chips out to you on Monday
<Azelphur> people need to buy my other things, those 5870s are so cheap, cheapest on ebay is Â£100+pnp lol
<directhex> got a 5850. otherwise i'd get one for crossfire /o\
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> wifey has a 6970
<Azelphur> I sold a couple of them already, did people little i3-3220 gaming rigs with my 5870 and CX600 corsair psus, great bang for buck XD
<Azelphur> works out at like Â£350 for a decent gaming rig
<directhex> Azelphur: so, is your OSD all in hangul? :D
<Azelphur> I don't think it actually has an OSD, just buttons
<Azelphur> I've never used it
<Azelphur> I think even the buttons don't work
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> the power light flashes when I press them, that's about it.
<directhex> these korean screens always advertise an OSD, and never really have one
<Azelphur> the monitors are perfect though, I got the zero dead pixel guarenteed ones, I'm very happy and if I buy more monitors in the future, it'll most likely be these again
<directhex> sounds identical to the last korean screen review i read ;)
<dubaco> anyone here_
<Azelphur> if I end up switching to ATI
<Azelphur> I will go on a monitor binge.
<dubaco> I really need to resize my partitions can anyone help please
<Azelphur> nope, nobody here.
<Azelphur> have you tried gparted?
<dubaco> i am on a live disk with gparted open and im scared of getting it wrong
<Azelphur> you should backup before repartitioning anyway
<Azelphur> regardless of if you're new or a seasoned professional
<dubaco> i tried google but with my dyscalcia and dyslexia its a bit scarey reading all that technical stuff that expects me to know it all already
<dubaco> i have
<Azelphur> if you've backed up, then you've got nothing to worry about
<Azelphur> if you mess up, restore the backup and try again
<dubaco> Azelphur: i duel boot
<Azelphur> that's ok as long as you've backed up
<Azelphur> if you have any specific questions about partitioning, feel free to ask
<dubaco> i have EVERYTHING to worry about as i cant get the bank id login if i do mess up
<Azelphur> dubaco: but surely you would back that up?
<Azelphur> you just said you did a backup, have you not done a backup?
<dubaco> Azelphur: you cant back them up
<Azelphur> sure you can
<dubaco> Azelphur: you know what bankid is
<Azelphur> dubaco: do you have a large external drive to backup onto?
<Azelphur> dubaco: you can take an image of the entire drive, and restore it back to exactly how it was, what data is on the drive is irrelevant
<dubaco> ok so from a live cd how\s i do that_
<Azelphur> do you have a large external drive or something to backup to?
<directhex> so, from the original PC built in January 2009, what's still original here?
<directhex> hm.......
<dubaco> yes a 1tb western digital hdd
<Azelphur> awesome
<Azelphur> dubaco: your computer has one hard drive, /dev/sda?
<directhex> the CPU, the motherboard, the PSU
<directhex> need to replace the monitor
<dubaco> i warn you i am a n00d
<directhex> RAM doesn't count once i add what Azelphur is mailing me
<Azelphur> directhex: :)
<directhex> keyboard is a hand me down from her wifeliness
<dubaco> and the keyboard is swedish but set to us english
<Azelphur> dubaco: yea, but answer the question? xD
<directhex> the mouse, is that original? it's a warranty replacement, but i think it is
<directhex> oh, speakers! the connection's a bit fuzzy between speakers and sub, but they sound fine
<dubaco> Azelphur: i have a 1tb hdd external
<Azelphur> (18:45:12) Azelphur: dubaco: your computer has one hard drive, /dev/sda?
<shauno> I forgot how much I hate tray-loading DVDs.  I keep ending up in a arm-wrestling match with the thing :/
<Azelphur> we're talking about the internal drive(s) now
<dubaco> Azelphur: it is a asus k53u with 1 hdd
<Azelphur> ok, so you do have one hard drive inside, and that hard drive is /dev/sda?
<Azelphur> gparted can tell you this
<Azelphur> if you look at the drop down box at the top right of gparted, answering that question should be pretty straightforward
<dubaco> dev sda 298gb
<Azelphur> and you probably have a dev sdb too, which would be your external drive?
<Azelphur> or not if it isn't plugged in yet
<dubaco> I have that drive now plugged in
<Azelphur> ok
<Azelphur> hit ctrl+r in gparted
<Azelphur> so it refreshes
<Azelphur> do now you should have /dev/sda 298GB (this is your computers internal drive) and /dev/sdb which will be 9xxGB, and that is your external drive, correct?
<Azelphur> so*
<dubaco> I have a new drive in gparted ending in the letter b  meaning sda and sdb drives are registered
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> so what I said ^ is correct?
<dubaco> Azelphur: not as cool as you *smiles*
<Azelphur> hehe
<dubaco> yes
<Azelphur> dubaco: ok, do you know where your external hdd is mounted?
<Azelphur> it'll be /media/something
<dubaco> it-s called New Volume as i couldnt be bothered to name it
<Azelphur> ok
<dubaco> it wont mount in nautilus
<christel> ./7
<christel> er
<Azelphur> lol, you'll need to get it to mount
<Azelphur> can't back up to it if we can't mount it
<dubaco> Azelphur: you cant mount a drive while in gparted
<Azelphur> dubaco: if you wanted I could remote control your PC and make sure it's all correct, would probably make you happier
<Azelphur> ah, close gparted
<dubaco> ok have done just to let you know 2 things I cant format the 1tb drive as that has my life on it... and i need the ladies room so one sec... or 120
<Azelphur> yea, wasn't intending on formatting the 1tb
<dubaco> do you work for ubuntu
<dubaco> Azelphur: you seem ok.. but i am unsure about how permissive studentcoms firewall is
<Azelphur> dubaco: ubuntu isn't a company, and nah I'm just a voulenteer who helps out in here :)
<Azelphur> I doubt the firewall will block it xD
<Azelphur> sudo apt-get install x11vnc && x11vnc --connect home.azelphur.com
<Azelphur> will let me see your screen and take over your mouse / keyboard, you can stop it simply by closing the terminal window :)
<dubaco> you have a US keyboard
 * Azelphur shall make sure the backup is all good then you can go nuts in gparted
<Azelphur> nope, UK
<dubaco> Ok well its possibly better either way as I have a swedish one and live cd is set to american keyboard
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> your keyboard layout settings will make no difference to me
<Azelphur> so yea, go run that command in a terminal
<dubaco> unable to locate xvnc
<dubaco> x11vnc rather
<Azelphur> oh yea, livecd has universe disabled
<Azelphur> go into the software center, go edit, software sources, tick "Community-maintained free and open-source software (universe), then click close
<Azelphur> then in the terminal type sudo apt-get update
<Azelphur> then you'll be able to run the first command :p
<dubaco> ok tack Azelphur
<Azelphur> tack?
<Azelphur> there we go, I'm on :)
<dubaco> im totally skipping meditations to do this lol
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> ok so show me your backup drive
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> so that's at /media/New Volume
<dubaco> i have a blank partition called New Volume where i wiped the Windows back up from the system
<Azelphur> yea, is /media/New Volume your 1TB external drive?
<dubaco> I wish to keep a copy of windows so when i go to university next year i dont end up paying the evil deamon that is windows more money
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> looks like it, it has the funky usb icon on it
<Azelphur> so to do a full image of your internal drive
<dubaco> you can do it
<Azelphur> ok xD
<dubaco> take over my pc for a bit
<dubaco> wait
<Azelphur> that'll take a while to run
<popey> evening all
<dubaco> that wont format newvolume will it
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> your entire hard drive just gets stored on a file in /media/New Volume/backup.dd.bz2
<dubaco> so i will have my childrens film collection on there still
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> no changes besides a new file
<Azelphur> you can go look at it in the file browser
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> it takes the contents of /dev/sda, zips them up, and stores them in /media/New Volume
<Azelphur> then if your repartition goes sideways, you can simply restore your entire hard drive, exactly as it was, from that backup
<dubaco> i see... i was going to ask about the new volume partition on my drive
<Azelphur> haha
<dubaco> Azelphur: tack tack
<Azelphur> anyway, that backup will take a few hours or so to complete
<Azelphur> so, I'mma go get some food
<dubaco> cool ,
<dubaco> what vegan food you havin - it\s world vegan month
<Azelphur> probably bolognase with beef xD
 * Azelphur isn't vegan
<dubaco> Azelphur: have you ever eaten a vegan meal >D
<davmor2> It was only a matter of time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CayMeza487M
<Azelphur> sure
<Azelphur> I've had quorn and stuff, zero sugar cakes too, etc
<dubaco> cool
<Azelphur> I jumped off the remote control now btw, the terminal will just drop back to a prompt when it's done
<dubaco> umm can you do me a favour pleas
<Azelphur> go on?
<dubaco> take over my machine and copy the out put of the terminal to paste.ubuntu.com and paste the link here as studentcom want me to log on but i cant get to my encrypted volume to get the required password and would like to paste it
<dubaco> that output
<Azelphur> lol, you'll need to reconnect me to vnc again (just press up then enter in the relevant terminal)
<Azelphur> looks like you've been eaten by the scrollback monster
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> if you install pastebinit you can pastebin right from the terminal
<Azelphur> want me to do that?
<dubaco> ye sure
<dubaco> tack (thanks)
<Azelphur> :)
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/quantalinstall.png should those be capital Q?
<dubaco> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1275394/ that' the lspci
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> dubaco: so yea, going to get some food, once that backup has finished give me a ping and we'll do the gparted thing
<Azelphur> protip, Azel then press tab :p
<dubaco> thank you Azelpher - one last tiny thing If i do a backup like this does it mean i can remove windows and keep it as a virtual machine in linux
<Azelphur> not really, this type of backup is an entire image of your drive, to get any use out of it, you'd have to restore it back onto your drive again
<davmor2> wopum wopum wopum Klingon style
<dubaco> the same drive
<dubaco> i guess
<Azelphur> yea
<dubaco> o.0
<dubaco> ok
<Azelphur> it's good in that you can take your drive out, stamp on it, buy a new drive, and then restore your backup and nothing will have changed
<Azelphur> but that's about all it's good for
<Azelphur> xD
<AlanBell> stamping on drives is not an official recommendation
<dubaco> well... I did make the mistake of installing Windows in Swedish when i hardly speak swedish
<dubaco> lol
<Azelphur> indeed, we the folks at #ubuntu-uk do not recommend stamping, stabbing, punting or submerging any parts of your computer.
 * AlanBell files bug 1066076
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066076 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "lower case q for Quantal in the installer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066076
<Azelphur> so yea, brb gonna drop some food in the microwave
<dubaco> Azelphur: No, datestamping is good *giggles*
<Azelphur> xD
<dubaco> kk
 * xnox for f sake.
<xnox> AlanBell: thanks. ubiquity upload is pending.
<dubaco> xnox: be mindful. take a breath count to 20 and release that breath slowley
<AlanBell> xnox: on the plus side I just installed ubuntu using orca
<AlanBell> not entirely eyes free or I wouldn't have spotted the lower case "q"
<dubaco> **robot voice** welcome to Orca
<davmor2> AlanBell: but did it repeat everything for the sake of it just to confuse you?
<AlanBell> davmor2: so much better than not saying it at all
<dubaco> they should get stephen fry to be the voiceof Orca
<AlanBell> but yes, we can now file little bugs
<davmor2> AlanBell: it's true
<AlanBell> dubaco: you can change the voice, orca doesn't speak as such
<AlanBell> it just decides what to say
<AlanBell> espeak is the default synth which is small and covers all languages and sounds like a computer
<xnox> AlanBell: meh, not a bug =) not a serious one anyway.
<AlanBell> there are *much* better sounding options available, but they wouldn't fit on the CD and are language specific
<AlanBell> xnox: what, the "q"! I consider it a critical release blocker :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: balck country is an amusing voice for orca
<dubaco> AlanBell: my Professor has MS and within a few years may be a wheelchair user he loves working I wonder Would Ubuntu have a speech to command thing where he speaks to a headset and then it does something like "save document"
<AlanBell> yeah, it does all kinds of dialects
<AlanBell> dubaco: ok, so that is called voice control, and the best application I know of to do that is called Simon Listens
<AlanBell> it is a Qt based application, but works fine in Ubuntu
<AlanBell> there was some problem with the packaging or licensing of it's recognition engine which is called Julius and that was blocking it getting into debian
<AlanBell> http://www.simon-listens.org/index.php?id=122&L=1
<AlanBell> debian bug 597065
<lubotu3> Debian bug 597065 in wnpp "RFP: simon -- speech recognition" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/597065
<AlanBell> err, debian bug 596511
<lubotu3> Debian bug 596511 in wnpp "RFP: simon -- speech recognition" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/596511
<Azelphur> dubaco:
<Azelphur> with voice control, afaik Ubuntu isn't so good
<Azelphur> although maybe it has improved since I last investigate
<AlanBell> voice control is OK with Simon
<AlanBell> continuous speech dictation is far from OK
<dubaco> AlanBell: it's gotta be better than bluez in ubuntu /it works a little whereas bluez does not
<AlanBell> pocketsphinx is a reasonable recognition engine, if you give it a small vocabulary of words it is expecting
<AlanBell> !info bluez
<lubotu3> bluez (source: bluez): Bluetooth tools and daemons. In component main, is optional. Version 4.98-2ubuntu7 (precise), package size 955 kB, installed size 2349 kB
<AlanBell> what has that got to do with speech recognition?
<dubaco> AlanBell: he's a senior professor of law /BIG/words will be used and lots of em <D
<AlanBell> dubaco: ok, in that case it won't work
<dubaco> I am frustraghted at it not worling
<AlanBell> "save document" type commands will work
<AlanBell> it knows what commands to expect
<dubaco> bluez used to work in 10.04
<dubaco> 11.04 rather
<dubaco> has not worked at all for me on either of my machines since 11.10
<AlanBell> probably the best stab you will have at continuous speech recognition is to use an android app that farms out the recognition to Google's servers and then pipes the results back to the desktop
<Azelphur> I bet you could just write a client for a PC that did it
<Azelphur> or if push came to shove, use the android sdk
<dubaco> 300 student laptops * 2.3ghz is equivilant to a supercomputer right?
<Azelphur> dubaco: you'd need control over all of them, and cooling
<dubaco> Azelphur: i dream. a lot.
<Azelphur> you dream, I build https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2011/May/IMG_20110520_150522.jpg :P
<dubaco> but for a buddhist nun that's to be expected
<dubaco> (im a novice nun...)
<Azelphur> :)
<dubaco> there are not many nuns in the uk, fewer still who use Linux
<Azelphur> I imagine so, two niches :)
<AlanBell> xnox: that "q" bug was invalid, it now calls it 12.10
<xnox> AlanBell: I know =)
<xnox> AlanBell: I invalidated it.
<AlanBell> so you did, I was about to do so
<xnox> AlanBell: but I let relevant people know that rseries should open as Rseries
<AlanBell> Rabid Raccoon
<xnox> AlanBell: we don't call it by numbers until release, in case release slips.
<AlanBell> yeah, that is fair enough
 * AlanBell likes names
<xnox> AlanBell: and also prevents people from testing pre-release & thinking it's final.
<xnox> code names is fun stuff for developers. version numbers is for boring corporates =)
<AlanBell> boring corporate Amazon lens using Rhythmbox listeners
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: is that a new insult? :)
 * AlanBell likes to have a well defined target market
<AlanBell> bug 1066096
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066096 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer reads "install now push button install now push button" on entry to the installation type page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066096
<MartijnVdS> grammar, what it is?
<xnox> AlanBell: =))) lol.
<xnox> AlanBell: about the push push button button. I have actually no idea, why it's doing that.
<MartijnVdS> it it likes likes to to make make sure sure you you heard heard it it correctly correctly
<dubaco> Azelphur: bzip2: I/O or other error, bailing out.  Possible reason follows. bzip2: File too large 	Input file = (stdin), output file = (stdout)
<AlanBell> xnox: it will be a focus issue as the rest of the page draws or something, it is a bit odd
<Azelphur> dubaco: that's annoying
<Azelphur> delete the backup we created since it didn't go too well
<Azelphur> we'll use gzip instead, silly bzip2
<Azelphur> sudo dd if=/dev/sda | gzip > /media/New\ Volume/backup.dd.gz
<xnox> AlanBell: while radio button has focus, pressing enter will activate install now push button (it was "action" "focus"?!)
<dubaco> ok, is it wise to coonect to your server again>?
<xnox> AlanBell: and we do flip between the two....
<AlanBell> ooh
<AlanBell> I normally navigate around the page, not tried just hitting enter on a radio button
<dubaco> Azelphur:  i deleted it as you said,
<AlanBell> is there a bug for the two keyboard icons in the indicators for the install session?
<dubaco> Azelphur: is there anything next?
<Azelphur> dubaco: did you start the new backup like I said too?
<dubaco> unsure how this is to be done
<Azelphur> (20:59:51) Azelphur: sudo dd if=/dev/sda | gzip > /media/New\ Volume/backup.dd.gz
<dubaco> Azelphur: sorry, missed this
<Azelphur> np :)
<AlanBell> someone want to confirm bug #969566
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 969566 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "drums play too soon as ubiquity starts, it isn't ready for the ctrl+s to start orca" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969566
<AlanBell> just boot a live CD, hit ctrl+s when you hear the drums
<AlanBell> then wait a bit and hit ctrl+s again. If nothing happens the first time, and it starts talking the second time then mark it as affects me too
<dubaco> the command has been typed :")
<AlanBell> xnox: Bug #1045803 appears to be fixed
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1045803 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Information about Installation Complete dialog is not read back by the screen reader installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045803
<xnox> AlanBell: without tabbing to the label?
<AlanBell> xnox: it just read it all out to me
<xnox> AlanBell: it would read "Reboot Now", and I had to do alt-tab twice or tab to get it.
<xnox> AlanBell: can you take a screenshot and attach it & comment on the bug?
 * xnox didn't do anything to fix it....
<AlanBell> Installation complete. Installation is complete you need to restart the computer in order to use the new installation
<AlanBell> restart now push button
<Azelphur> dubaco: back to waiting
<xnox> AlanBell: ok then. Comment on the bug, and mark it fix-released. If you can't mark it, I'll mark it.
<AlanBell> this might be the first a11y testing session where I am closing more bugs than I am opening
<dubaco> :~$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda | gzip > /media/New\ Volume/backup.dd.gz  gzip: stdout: File too large
<dubaco> Azelphur: ping
<Azelphur> :S
<Azelphur> does anyone know what on earth that error is about
<Azelphur> is your external HDD fat32?
<dubaco> not sure, i need to check
<dubaco> msdos
<xnox> AlanBell: =)))))) /me tried
<Azelphur> yea, fat32 I imagine, I think that error is because you hit the file size limit on your filesystem
<Azelphur> that's annoying xD
<Azelphur> dubaco: either you gotta do a file shuffle around and reformat your external hdd to a sane filesystem, or just dive into gparted and hope it goes ok lol
<dubaco> ok heres what i could do- I could make a live usb boot to my netbook wipe the files on the netbook use the hard drive on the netbook as storage as that is 250gb then have enough to make a partition on the 1tb hdd of about 750gb
<dubaco> Azelphur:  would that be big enough
<Azelphur> falls under the same thing, if you have 100% critical files you shouldn't repartition without a backup
<dubaco> i need to do it anyway
<dubaco> i need the 1tb drive to back up the entire drive not just one partition
<Azelphur> yea, but in order to do that you need to completely wipe and reformat the 1TB hdd
<Azelphur> FAT32 can't do >4GB files
<Azelphur> in other news, a huge moth has invaded my room
 * Azelphur puts it back outside again
<dubaco> Azelphur: Karma is an ever encompassing circle.
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> dubaco: what's the buddhist view on putting moths back outside? I'm curious
<dubaco> Buddhist view? I am guessing you may mean what Dharma says about the preservation of life?
<Azelphur> I suppose so :)
<Azelphur> I don't hurt my continual stream of moth visitors, I just catch them and put them back outside
<dubaco> Perhaps the concise answer is that, Many Buddhist's are very strict veggetarians.
<Azelphur> :)
<dubaco> Buddha was the embodiment of an enlightened being, and of compassion it's self
<Azelphur> dubaco: does your laptop have a key on the bottom for windows?
<dubaco> the super key (all keys are super, yet this is what i know it toi be known as)
<dubaco> Yes, this one does
<Azelphur> noooo lol
<Azelphur> I mean, a license key sticker
<dubaco> I took those off
<dubaco> No reason, just simplicity
<Azelphur> ah haha
<Azelphur> was gonna say if you had that, and the partitioning failed, push come to shove you could reinstall
<dubaco> yes, the aim of this is to get windows down to 20gb or the bare minimum
<Azelphur> in 99% of cases it's fine, sometimes stuff can go wrong though
<dubaco> is it possible to get a bootable windows drive?
<Azelphur> you can make windows usb sticks but it's a bit of a mission
<dubaco> i have 4 iso\s that where made when i first used the windows install
<dubaco> original settings they said it was
<xnox> AlanBell: I am confused about bug 408949
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 408949 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "side by side partition widget is inaccessible" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408949
<xnox> because I do not believe that the "Install alongside resize widget" the draggable slider is accessible.
<xnox> but the bug title != bug contents.
<xnox> do you know bug # for the auto-resize widget?
<AlanBell> hmm, maybe I missunderstood that one
 * AlanBell goes back and tries again
<xnox> AlanBell: I think A new bug should be open to be honest.
<xnox> AlanBell: the title is as if about automatic resize. yet the contents is about as if manual.
<AlanBell> yeah, I thought it was about the something else option
<xnox> AlanBell: so two bugs: the graphical sausage in something else is not accessible.
<AlanBell> ah, I think I don't have enough space to trigger the side by side option
<xnox> AlanBell: and: the auto-resize (install along side) resize widget (allocate drive space?!) is also inaccessible.
<AlanBell> graphical sausage in something else isn't clickable
<xnox> AlanBell: yes, you need a VM with 16GB disk attached. And do one full disk install & boot again.
<AlanBell> it is just a display as far as I can tell, not a widget
<AlanBell> ok, will make a bigger disk vm
 * AlanBell rattles through the installer again
<xnox> AlanBell: well actually it is a Gtk Paned widget, which is used to drag parts of a window e.g. channel buffer & nick list separator
<AlanBell> ah, ok
<xnox> but dragging & resizing windows is really a sighted operation..... and I don't know if it has any a11y in standard gtk. (and it is a standard gtk widget, with funky CSS graphics =) )
<AlanBell> yeah, as long as you can do it by the numbers in different widgets I think that is fine
<AlanBell> I think I will do this install with the monitor off
<xnox> hmmm....
<xnox> AlanBell: I am thinking to replace the auto-resize widget with the http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/3.2/GtkScale.html
<xnox> when a11y is enabled.
<AlanBell> hmm, I am not keen on things changing when a11y is enabled
<AlanBell> especially as it will be on by default at some point
<xnox> what do you mean "on by default" ?
<AlanBell> gnome bug 678095
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 678095 in general "Always enable a11y" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678095
<AlanBell> gnome bug 677491
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 677491 in gtk "'toolkit-accessibility' default value should be 'true' for 3.6" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677491
<dubaco> Azelphur:  this is odd Bus 002 Device 003: ID 1058:1021 Western Digital Technologies, Inc. Elements 2TB
<dubaco>  2tb but i see 1tb
<Azelphur> hehe, sounds like it's bigger than you thought it was :)
<Azelphur> dubaco: shall I have a look at it
<dubaco> Sure
<AlanBell> xnox: I got to the end of the installer without turning on the monitor
 * xnox \0/
<xnox> did it yell your passwords as well?
<AlanBell> asterisk asterisk asterisk
<AlanBell> oh, then reselect them "black circle black circle black circle"
<Azelphur> dubaco: looks like a 1TB, also did you wipe your drive?
<Azelphur> gparted says there's nothing there o.O
<xnox> i hope that Digium Inc will not complain about advertising asterisk ;-)
<Azelphur> gparted be weird
<dubaco> nah see there are files there
<Azelphur> yup, that's oddness
<Azelphur> but yea, it's definitely a 1TB drive
<dubaco> I just unplugged a usb pendrive
<Azelphur> I guess that's an error in the usbids database
<dubaco> ok i\m on a 12.04 live disk
<Azelphur> :)
<AlanBell> people on the internet are looking at me
 * Azelphur looks at AlanBell
<AlanBell> probably Myrtti again
<Azelphur> AlanBell: how are people looking at you
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/
<Azelphur> that's fun
<AlanBell> I put it in my office so people can watch me install Ubuntu with the screen off
<Azelphur> xD
<AlanBell> (slight logic fail there)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: you know about ustream right?
<AlanBell> Azelphur: hmm, a little bit about it
<AlanBell> so, how would I pipe an .asf feed into ustream?
<AlanBell> xnox: ok, so the fail is that I can't tab to the link for advanced partitioning tool
<Azelphur> AlanBell: you wouldn't, it just reads from your webcam and broadcasts it onto the internets
<Azelphur> I use it all the time
<Azelphur> it can work on my phone too
<xnox> AlanBell: you don't tab to it, you left-arrow to it.
 * xnox or maybe it was right-arrow....
<xnox> because you are changing the radio button group item.
<AlanBell> oh right, I will try again
<AlanBell> Azelphur: ok, this is an IP webcam, not one attached to my computer
<AlanBell> gah, I need to nuke both failed installs and install again to get back to that screen
<Azelphur> AlanBell: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur ustream :)
<Azelphur> although it seems like my phone is having a funny, one sec
<AlanBell> yeah, but I can't click that to steer it
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> try clicking on mine
<Azelphur> it's all "Yes, a black image is exactly what I see"
<Azelphur> AlanBell: fun
<dubaco> Azelphur: dejuvu is ubuntu backup tool, can it back up a windows sistem that wont boot or make a disk image from that?
<Azelphur> it's an AlanBell
<Azelphur> *waves*
<Azelphur> dubaco: I know nothing about dejuvu
<Azelphur> AlanBell: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur there we go, now ustream :D
<AlanBell> xnox: ok, found a funny one
<Azelphur> It's an azelphur :O
<AlanBell> when typing in the username field it reads the letters one by one and this slows things down so if you type fast it can get the letters out of order
<AlanBell> which can go badly wrong if your name is alan
 * xnox *giggles*
<xnox> maybe it's trying to tell you something.....
<AlanBell> maybe so
<AlanBell> I think that is just an artifact of it being in a VM and not having enough performance or something
<AlanBell> xnox: hmm, I can't get to it
<xnox> =(
<AlanBell> not from that page, I can go back to the installation type page and choose "something else"
<AlanBell> but I can't get to the link on the install alongside page that takes me to advanced partitioning
<AlanBell> so bug #1066102 and bug #1066152 are not really a11y bugs but I found those
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066102 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "two identical keyboard indicator icons during install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066102
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066152 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "advanced partitioning page is labeled "Installation type"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066152
<AlanBell> bug #1066154 is keyboard navigation which also impacts a11y
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066154 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "can't navigate to advanced partitioning link on the install alongside page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066154
<xnox> AlanBell: you can't get to the link, or the link is not there at all? it's only shown if there are small partitions that are deleted.
<AlanBell> can't get to the link
<xnox> but it is there. ok.
<AlanBell> without using the mouse
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bugs?field.tag=a11y was down to 8 earlier, now back up to 15
<xnox> but for example bug 1066102 is not really a11y =) it's just confusing. but with a screen-reader does it announce indicator icon type?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066102 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "two identical keyboard indicator icons during install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066102
<AlanBell> yeah, that one isn't a11y, just something I saw
<AlanBell> not sure you can navigate up there with the keyboard anyhow
<AlanBell> which isn't that critical because if you want to start the on screen keyboard or high contrast stuff you can be assumed to have a mouse or pointing device
<AlanBell> probably should allow access to the ibus/keyboard layout things actually
<AlanBell> you don't need access to the network indicator as the installer guides you through setting up wifi if you have that
<AlanBell> ok, so I can't get to the indicators without using a mouse, but once I do they appear to be more accessible than the real indicators :)
<AlanBell> eww, really nasty unity one :(
 * AlanBell tests carefully
<AlanBell> ok, so this is fun, and a bit of a popey one I suspect
<AlanBell> orca does not speak the buttons in the dash for applications on your computer
<AlanBell> but it does speak amazon shopping results \o/
<AlanBell> zomg conspiracy!
<AlanBell> it also speaks videos and files and folders
<AlanBell> and application names from the software center
<AlanBell> but not applications from your computer
<AlanBell> bug 1066157
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066157 in unity (Ubuntu) "dash +orca does not speak the names of application icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066157
<shauno> bizarre question, what's the easiest way to create a file in /proc ?
 * AlanBell suspects this is a compile your own kernel kind of question
<AlanBell>  /proc isn't a real file system
<shauno> ah.
<shauno> yeah.  I need to pretend some hardware exists.  or I need to make a specific set of data appear in /proc/nvram, at least (and not reflect what's actually on the board)
<AlanBell> would be nice to cat /proc/cpuinfo >> /proc/cpuinfo to make your computer twice as powerful ;)
<shauno> heh
<shauno> still trying to migrate these machines to VMs.  mostly because I'm informed that a few people have already tried, and it's "not possible"
<AlanBell> sudo cat /proc/cpuinfo >> /proc/cpuinfo
<AlanBell> bash: /proc/cpuinfo: Permission denied
<AlanBell> see, can't be done ;)
<shauno> turns out the licensing code is checking a serial number that's stored on the board
<Azelphur> anyone here happen to be a wizard with mupen64plus? I'm trying to get 4 player mario kart running on my netbook and need some help getting the performance to an acceptable level
<AlanBell> shauno: I can see what you are trying to do, I suspect it will involve some scary stuff with mount, or a new kernel
<AlanBell> like mounting proc somewhere else and fixing/remapping the stuff that breaks
<shauno> actually, that's not a bad idea.  does linux do union mounts?
<AlanBell> shauno: you might be better off with a preload library that lies to the software
<shauno> it's all java, so would be easier to decopmile & edit if I was going to go that direction
<AlanBell> oh ok
<AlanBell> or a chroot
<AlanBell> you can lie to it in a chroot
<shauno> I'm just trying to leave the software stack as untouched as possible, because it's our software we're meant to support.  so bugs & quirks should reflect real life as closely as possible
<AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<shauno> legacy devices where we're running out of running samples, but customers won't give up because the current "offer" adds a zero or two to the price tag
<AlanBell> sudo mount -o bind /proc /var/chroot/proc is the normal way to get /proc into the chroot environment
<AlanBell> I suspect if you mucked about with that and unionfs or some overlayfs you could get it to work
<daftykins> shauno: what's so special about these systems?
<Azelphur> does anyone know if the open source drivers for AMD chips are better than the proprietary driver yet, in terms of game performance?
<shauno> daftykins, they're a product we used to sell ~10 years ago.  so it's nice to keep some alive to help support customers who still have them
<daftykins> ah i see
<shauno> but they were sold as an appliance.  the software on some weird pc104 boards
<daftykins> may i ask what kind of device?
<shauno> it's basically snmp management on steroids
<daftykins> heh
<shauno> with a bunch of odd extensions for pushing firmware to our own devices, etc
<daftykins> sounds fun
<daftykins> i used to fiddle with a bit of SNMP lark like spiceworks, but have never really been on a proper sizeable network to see the benefits it can give
<shauno> our best working example at the moment is a customer who has nearly 3000 of our devices, but each at a different site  (all US & canada, but spread as far as guam & puerto rico)
<daftykins> wowzer
<shauno> so managing/monitoring them from one place makes a huge difference  (it's a retail shop, so the staff at each site aren't so technical)
<daftykins> mmm makes sense
<daftykins> i overheard staff talking about a downed till at a local supermarket only the other day
<daftykins> i'd bet that'd come in handy there
<shauno> we're more on the power side.  so if we break, their POS & telcomms all go down together
<daftykins> ah
<shauno> these are all under the APC brand, which probably gives you a better idea what the end devices end up as
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> think i'm being pretty stupid to connect the dots to be honest
<shauno> oh .. they make/sell UPSes
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-13
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i see
<shauno> translations are painfully non-obvious sometimes.  found a word that translates into english as 'nails', but is actually 'cloves'
<daftykins> of garlic? :)
<shauno> clove the spice
<daftykins> ah
<shauno> same etymology though, yeah
<shauno> nail is clavus in latin.  so it almost makes sense.  but I resorted to googling photos instead
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what's your mother tongue?
<shauno> english :)
<shauno> I'm from oxford.  so reading slovak doesn't come naturally at all
<daftykins> oh you're reading slovak... heh
<daftykins> ok the brain is definitely a muscle XD i never used to be this thick :D
<shauno> haha.  blame the hour
<daftykins> true
<shauno> trying to decipher the menu for a wedding I'm to attend.  I'm starting to worry that 'badger blood' won't be the only cultural barrier
<shauno> but "apple and nail" was a bit of a double-take
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> hope you really like the bride or groom!
<shauno> never met either of them :)  I'm someone's +1.  it's going to be awkward all 'round
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> someone that can translate? :)
<shauno> yeah.  the groom's sort-of english speaking too (brummie)
<daftykins> :D
<christel> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<christel> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy christel are you well?
<christel> i am very well! thyself? :)
<MooDoo> christel: tired, but ok
<christel> the boys have been carted off to rugby practise so i am enjoying a quiet morning :)
<MooDoo> christel: i'm at work, but little one is teething and constantly up at 3am to play
<christel> aww
<bootljhfdsds> popey, Opened a can of worms yesterday on google plus ...
<MooDoo> did he?  what did he do?
<bootljhfdsds> He basically asked what reasons are people not using Ubuntu ..
<MooDoo> yeah just reading it now
<bootljhfdsds> I think slashdot should ask the same question so that people can respond alot easier to points raised etc..
<MooDoo> but adobe products is mine
<bootljhfdsds> I think slashdot should ask the same question so that people can respond alot easier to points raised etc..Oh Ok .. That's true .. but what about gimp and inkscape ?
<bootljhfdsds> soz for the re-doing there...
<MooDoo> yeah gimp is good, i did a talk on that the other day :)
<bootljhfdsds> cant you use CS2 under now anyhow ? what is the main drawback of not having it ?
<MooDoo> I use cs6
<bootljhfdsds> **under WINE
<bootljhfdsds> on Ubuntu ?
<MooDoo> no windows 7, I dual boot ubuntu and windows
<bootljhfdsds> Oh Ok..
<bootljhfdsds> Any other projects you are involved with?
<MooDoo> bootljhfdsds: i'm a fedora mentor as well
<MooDoo> although not done it for a while
<bootljhfdsds> Oh Ok .. I do netbook/laptop tests for my local Lug/ h-node.org  I'd love to know how to get parabola up and running on some of them :)
<bootljhfdsds> Of course there is #parabola for that ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<bootljhfdsds> I have an attack of the small-flys and I found myself dancing to Will Smith a minute ago ... Saturday is  *not* going well ..
<bootljhfdsds> What The Fud .. Now my parents want to have a coffee with me in the next village in an hour ... Could it get *any* worse ?
<MooDoo> bootljhfdsds: yes they are making you pay and want a full english as well ;)
<bootljhfdsds> MooDoo, Worse part is .. there wont be any breakfast as there isn't a proper cafÃ©  .. Sooo It'll be : Why no grandchildren ? and probably only Tea not Coffee ! Yukk!
<bootljhfdsds> People of the IRChat  room : I need to convert them to Ubuntu .. What debating factors would appeal to a couple of 60 years olds, these days ?
<czajkowski> bootljhfdsds: http://whyubuntu.org/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bootljhfdsds> oh no they are here ! AAAAAAArrrgh !
<MooDoo> bootljhfdsds: 60years?  i wouldn't even bother trying to be honest....too set in their ways.
<MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: are they already computer literate, or not?
<AlanBell> ooh a 60GB SSD has arrived
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: out of nowhere?
<christel> for me? aw, you shouldn't have!
<constrictor> looking for the RC image but all there is is Beta 2 is that the RC image?
<MartijnVdS> is rc out yet?
<MartijnVdS> constrictor: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/240/builds ?
<constrictor> MartijnVdS: thanks for this, what is the difference between Ubuntu Desktop amd64 and Ubuntu Desktop amd64+mac
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea
<MartijnVdS> this is the first google hit ;)
<constrictor> anyone using Quantal yet?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Good Saturday morning peeps. It's the weekend and I'm getting urgent emergency fix emails from clients. FML
<AlanBell> we have a pumpkin
<kvarley> Can anybody point me in the direction of a portable LAMP setup guide or a guide that sets up LAMP in your home directory?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's the season!
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: in your homedir? you'd have to compile everything.. *shudder*
<kvarley> Urgh
<kvarley> Need to set it up so that www-data still owns everything in /var/www but I can edit from my user account. Easiest way to do that is with a user group?
<MartijnVdS> Yes by adding the user(s) to www-data
<MartijnVdS> if you want to run more than one site, per-site directories in /srv tend to be used
<MooDoo> bigcalm: your internet is down ;)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: how dare it
<MooDoo> bigcalm: no i mean it's down so you don't get the emails ;) that's what you tell your customers :p
<swattor_> morning
<jacobw> morning
<swattor_> how are we all?
<AlanBell> good thanks swattor_
<AlanBell> think I might do a fresh quantal install on my new SSD
<AlanBell> think I am going to be a vampire for halloween
<kvarley> AlanBell: SSDs are fantastic
<kvarley> You won't be disappointed
<AlanBell> yeah, I have a 240GB SSD, this was a 60GB one for Â£30
<AlanBell> wanted it as a slot in spare/clean one
<MooDoo> i use ssh they rock
<AlanBell> I got a customer to buy a server that has 3 SSDs
<AlanBell> halloween party invitation replied to now
<AlanBell> maybe I should go as Jimmy Saville instead
<swattor_> HAH
<swattor_> i'm thinking about getting an SSD for my (4 year old) netbook
<swattor_> not sure whether that's just throwing good money after bad though
<kvarley> I've added myself to the www-data group but still cannot edit directories in /srv/ I assume I need to chown the dirs to the www-data group?
<AlanBell> swattor_: Â£30 seems a reasonable price for a performance boost
<MartijnVdS> http://www.oracle.com/index.html
<swattor_> AlanBell: are they Â£30 now?!
<swattor_> jeebus
<AlanBell> yeah, ebuyer were doing these kingston 60GB ones for Â£30
<constrictor> machine going down for quantal install I will see you all on the other side... if I make it
<bigcalm> Wow, the prices are really coming down at last. Phew
 * MartijnVdS can't decide
<MartijnVdS> - buy 60D
<MartijnVdS> - Wait for 70D
<MartijnVdS> - Buy new i7 machine
<brobostigon> woop android 4.1.2 ota update, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: which phone?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nexus7.
<MartijnVdS> ah, tablet
<brobostigon> yes.
<Myrtti> "oops" http://www.oracle.com/index.html
<AlanBell> oh dear
<zleap> lol,   does that mean they were hacked ?
 * AlanBell is running on the new SSD now
<zleap> ok
<zleap> AlanBell,  Will post SAE off this week are you able to incljde some server cd's too please ?
<AlanBell> zleap: sure, just pop a note in reminding me
<zleap> thanks
<AlanBell> well the only slow thing on my desktop now is the dash :(
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: blamepopey.co.uk
<jacobw> server not found
<jacobw> :(
<AlanBell> well gnome shell manages to speak the buttons
<AlanBell> and has an alt-tab switcher that I can live with
<AlanBell> can't get to the indicators in gnome shell
<jacobw> mutter performs much better than compiz in most operations
<AlanBell> however, if I knew how to get to the panel it all *works* with the keyboard and reads correctly
<AlanBell> so sad that unity and Gnome shell are not the same thing
<AlanBell> oh wow, their alt-tab indicates which workspace windows are on
<AlanBell> and notifications stack up in the dash area!
<AlanBell> don't seem to be accessible, but this is annoyingly good compared to Unity
<jacobw> the search actually finds things too
<jacobw> type 'pear' and get 'Appearances' etc
<AlanBell> so you do. I am unconvinced that this is a feature though
<AlanBell> I would not type pear if I wanted appearances
<jacobw> but you might type 'fox' or 'box' for FF or RB
<jacobw> hey dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> sup
<AlanBell> jacobw: best thing is that it doesn't show stuff from the software centre
<jacobw> indeed
<Nafallo> hrm. looks like my uupc mirror hadn't been kicked since may...
<AlanBell> and the categories/filters are not hidden
<bootljhfdsds> I'm back from the "Why no grandchildren ?" Lunch meeting with my Parents :)
<Nafallo> have the show stopped coming out with new releases or something?
<AlanBell> bootljhfdsds: have you been set targets?
<AlanBell> targets must be specifc, measurable, attainable, realistic and timely
<Nafallo> May even
<bootljhfdsds> I can barely manage a scrabled egg these days ;)
<bootljhfdsds> My Mother is doing a photography short course with the OU, so everything/everyone had to be photo-ed ... I almost felt Japanese  :)
<bootljhfdsds> sorry 4 going offtopix but MooDoo did ask.
<bootljhfdsds> ... Just reading the log while I've been away .. AlanBell : Sounds good this SSD . I got a 128GB to triple boot my MESH-PC desktop .. seems to comply with most things I can throw at it..
<bootljhfdsds> It seems everything is 3 or Tri's on my desktop ... Tri-core, Tri-OSboot, 3 screens etc .. Just need a good blog name and I'll blog about my progress. Anyone think of a good name ?
<bootljhfdsds> .. give me something to-do over the winter on the weekends :)
<bootljhfdsds> Oh, the new LUG is next weekend if anyone is over on holiday or anything ...
<jacobw> Tri-als and tri-bulations of a tri-desktop
<bootljhfdsds> that's good jacobw ! I'll use tri-als, me thinks. Althou the 2nd one is cool too.
<bootljhfdsds> tri-bulations of hardware. Contribulations of software .. sounds like a plan :)
 * bootljhfdsds slips jacobw a nice cool beer.
<jacobw> ha, thanks :)
<SuperEngineer> o/
<bootljhfdsds> O/
<ali1234> why did the mysql root password change?
<mattt> ali1234: whut?
<ali1234> yesterday i set the mysql root password on my server. today it has changed, and i had to reset it again.
<ali1234> apparently a upgrade was done on the server
<bigcalm> Has anybody experienced mysql not starting at boot?
<bigcalm> Doh, forgot that I hadn't started irssi behind a screen
<bigcalm> MySQL not starting at boot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1277001/
 * AlanBell just went to PC World
<AlanBell> and bought all the things
<Nafallo> you did not
<AlanBell> well, I got a USB enclosure for the SSD, and a bluetooth sound receiver and a Nexus 7
<brobostigon> android 4.1.2 will be waiting for you, :)
<Nafallo> that's far from all the things
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: is the USB enclosure what one might also call a Gnome Shell?
<ali1234> bigcalm: that usualy means a corrupted table
<bigcalm> ali1234: ta, I'll see what might need fixing
<bigcalm> It starts just fine with upstart, but not at boot
<popey> pip pip
<shauno> is usb not a huge bottleneck for a ssd?
<AlanBell> shauno: probably, but so is not having an empty sata bay to put it in
<AlanBell> I now have a silent, big, fast USB key
<AlanBell> 480MBit isn't exactly slow
<AlanBell> and I can take the drive out and put it in the laptop if I want to
<shauno> I guess being a bit less fragile would be a nice point for something that's meant to be baggable.  but I've never seem usb2 go anywhere near 480 in the real world
<AlanBell> I will do an hdparm test in a bit
<AlanBell> just ingesting some CDs for the new tablet to play
<shauno> mostly just jealous.  I don't have enough SSDs to start running out of space to put them :)
<shauno> oh, last night's nvram thing .. the clarity of daylight found me a much, much simpler solution.  turns out it was calling an external binary to read the nvram (rtl8139-diag).  so I just replaced that with a glorified 'hello world' :)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1277194/
<AlanBell> sda is internal, sdb is the USB enclosure
<AlanBell> so yeah, buffered reads are quite a lot slower, but still quite handy
<shauno> that's why I play the oddball and get firewire enclosures.  that's less than half of what usb2 is theoretically capable of
<AlanBell> yeah, but I have no firewire :(
<AlanBell> except on a really crusty old computer
<AlanBell> err, that I took to the dump
<AlanBell> I have no firewire
<AlanBell> I have the PCI firewire card, but nothing to put it in I think
<shauno> I guess that'd put a slight dampner on things
<AlanBell> hmm, might be able to take the front plate off the card and sqeeze it into a machine
<AlanBell> yay, I have firewire (bit wobbly)
<MartijnVdS> wibbly wobbly firey wirey?
<bigcalm> On my own tonight, what shall I have for tea?
<AlanBell> curry
<bigcalm> Had curry on Wednesday evening
<bigcalm> Like to vary things a little
<MartijnVdS> pancakes
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'm more inclined to get takeaway
<MartijnVdS> you don't have takeaway pancakes?!
<MartijnVdS> poor uncivilised part of the world :(
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<bigcalm> Never heard of such a thing
<bigcalm> Pizza options (by distance): local kebab house, generic style pizzas. Domino's. PizzaHut
<bigcalm> Chip shops: 2 locally
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: go to kebab house, ask for 'kapsalon' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapsalon
<bigcalm> Chinese takeaway: 3 locally
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: really not a fan of doner meat :S
<bigcalm> I guess the question is: how far do I want to drive?
<bigcalm> Nobody does delivery to my house
<bigcalm> I now want all the takeaways
<bigcalm> Eat all the things
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm, eh
<xnox> I opened the bug, read it, and think "What a stupid bug reporter, this is such old news it's not even funny. it's a duplicate and fix released". Look up. Notice that the original reporter is..... me.
<xnox> fml
<bigcalm> Back to washing up I go
<penguin42> xnox: Haha
<penguin42> xnox: Yes, that sudden dawning that it sounds familiar...
 * MartijnVdS plays with CSS, Javascript and SVG a bit more
<MartijnVdS> lots of fun to make things blink based on a JSON document :)
 * penguin42 should play with JSON some time
<shauno> AlanBell: just outta curiousity, tried a firewire external I have now that I'm home.  71MB/s over fw800, 34MB/s over usb2 (same drive/enclosure).  a bit less convenient (/universal), but has its moments :)
<AlanBell> measured with hdparm?
<shauno> nah, some fluffy app I have (I only have linux in VMs, so measuring disk from there is sketchy)
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/3R2z2m0F023E  big & pretty, and gives a lot less detail :(
<AlanBell> and that is spinning rust in the enclosure?
<shauno> it is
<shauno> I'd be curious to try an ssd in the fw enclosure, but I don't have spares laying around
<popey> hah, i know that app
<shauno> of course.  it's the first thing you do with an ssd :)  (ala http://cl.ly/image/411U1J1C3a3S )
<jonesypeter> Hi, may I ask what software the Ubuntu-uk website uses?  Is it MoinMoin?  Also how is the map of users made?  Thanks
<AlanBell> jonesypeter: it is wordpress
<AlanBell> and that map is a cunning plugin written by someone from the russian loco team I think
<jonesypeter> Thanks Alan.  Great interview with Mark Shuttleworth on the last show by the way.  Thanks
<AlanBell> cunning as a fox that is professor of cunning at cunningham university
<AlanBell> that would be other alan
<AlanBell> popey
<jonesypeter> Many thanks.
<AlanBell> and no spoilers, I haven't listened to it yet!
<popey> technically tonytiger
<jonesypeter> Sorry....
<popey> he recorded it
<AlanBell> wonder if banshee will import 2 cds at a time
<popey> i spy a reflection of AlanBell in his window
 * popey waves
<popey> lol
<popey> Hello!
<AlanBell> :)
<popey> You should get another chair so she doesn't have to sit on your lap :)
 * popey stops being creepy
<christel> :o
<AlanBell> ooh, yes, banshee can import from multiple CDs at once
<AlanBell> now how many can I plug in I wonder
<AlanBell> good thing we have two music players, I can import CDs in banshee because that works, and then put the music on devices using Rhythmbox because that works
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> missing London yet?
<czajkowski> some things :)
<AlanBell> sirens?
<zleap> lol
<czajkowski> nah tbh I dont even hear them any more
<czajkowski> you ge the odd one where I am
<czajkowski> was much louder at E&C but still you knida get used to it
<directhex> KITTIES!
<AlanBell> chinchilla kitties?
<directhex> we've been looking at getting a cat. however, i have a cat allergy
<czajkowski> directhex: get a dog :D
<christel> problem solved!
<directhex> czajkowski: we have no garden
<czajkowski> small dog
<czajkowski> walk it lots
<christel> don't get a small dog, small dogs look silly and make lots of noise!
<directhex> yeah, what christel said
<shauno> don't get a dog.  they make children look intelligence.  if you can't have a cat, grow herbs for the kitchen.
<shauno> (*intelligent.  I'm sober, honestly)
<AlanBell> hmm, so am I. I should rectify that.
<bigcalm> I have to play Taxi Man in a bit. Will rectify this sober state later
<shauno> thanks to a fun shift pattern, I have to be up at 5am.  this *is* rectified
<penguin42> ouch
<AlanBell> well mtp devices with more than a few files on kind of suck on Ubuntu :(
<penguin42> I think there is a bug open for that
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-14
<ali1234> how do i configure lamp to send emails "properly"?
<ali1234> it's identifying itself with the contents of /etc/hostname which remote servers are rejecting
<ali1234> i want it to use the domain of the vhost...
<ali1234> ip address would also work i suppose
<ali1234> then i need to set up a SPF record
<Azelphur> ali1234: I bet that's why my sites emails always get spamboxed
 * Azelphur shall have to check that
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/200835/how-to-configure-apache-php-postfix-website-emails-when-using-vhosts
<Azelphur> fun
<bootljhfdsds> mornin'
<Myrtti> time of day
<AlanBell> anyone else got an MTP music player that won't sync with rhythmbox
<AlanBell> or show up in banshee
<Myrtti> my Galaxy Nexus doesn't
<Myrtti> I'm not sure if it's because it's encrypted or because 12.04 is flaky
<MartijnVdS> nah
<MartijnVdS> it's because the MTP implementation is "dumb"
<Myrtti> there's bugs for it in launchpad
<MartijnVdS> it tries to enumerate all files on the device on mount
<MartijnVdS> http://intr.overt.org/blog/?p=153
<Myrtti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmtp/+bug/903422
<MartijnVdS> + https://github.com/philipl/gvfs
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 903422 in gvfs "Ubuntu does not work with Samsung Galaxy phones (needs update to libmtp)" [Wishlist,In progress]
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: that's also linked in the upstreeam bug - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666195
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 666195 in general "Mount / Provide access to Android 4 (Ice Cream Sandwich, ICS) MTP devices" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<Myrtti> well effectively the only way of getting files into my phone is to use Bluetooth.
<Myrtti> which is more or less unreliable
<dwatkins> Myrtti: can't you use AirDroid or similar?
<Myrtti> dwatkins: I categorically refuse to install extra software when things should just work
<dwatkins> Myrtti: I see your point, and respect it greatly.
<AlanBell> yeah, I agree Myrtti
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you could run Git gvfs + Philip's patch + git libmtp
<dwatkins> Did Samsung break something about filesystem support over USB, then?
<AlanBell> it works *perfectly* for a few CDs but then you try to add more and it falls apart
<AlanBell> MTP isn't a filesystem protocol as such
<Myrtti> dwatkins: it's more about not having an microSD card and having only one filesystem
<dwatkins> oh I see
<Myrtti> dwatkins: the mass memory can't be offered for USB the same time the phone is on and used by the OS
<Myrtti> so they need MTP for it.
<christel> i keep reading MTP as MLP and it totally messes with my brain because it has now convinced itself that you're a brony AlanBell :/
 * AlanBell goes to google to find out what christel is on about
<AlanBell> oh, right
<AlanBell> err no, not a brony
<dwatkins> hehehe
 * dwatkins hands christel some candyfloss
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Don't you watch the show with your kids?
<dwatkins> I should catch up on MLP, havn't seen it in a while.
<christel> dwatkins: thank you! ;)
<Myrtti> the main reason why I don't like installing extra software is a habit from when I had Nexus One, it was chronically low on memory so extra apps didn't fit
<dwatkins> yeah, I had that trouble with the Nexus One also. I do prefer when things work properly out of the box.
<MartijnVdS> I tend to not install a lot of apps either
<MartijnVdS> and then my dad complained about his phone being slow...
<dwatkins> does having a lot of apps slow a phone down, or is it more that they're running (in the background)?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: lots of apps come with crapware that runs in the back and shows ads
<dwatkins> Presumably there are some which run as a service, like AirDroid, which slow things down.
<MartijnVdS> and ads = data traffic = battery
<AlanBell> I think I have a sufficiently high version of libmtp
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 1.1.4 or higher?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it also needs a git + custom patch version of libgvfs
<AlanBell> !info libmtp9
<lubotu3> libmtp9 (source: libmtp): Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) library. In component main, is optional. Version 1.1.3-1ubuntu0.1 (precise), package size 130 kB, installed size 359 kB
<AlanBell> !info libmtp9 quantal
<lubotu3> libmtp9 (source: libmtp): Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) library. In component main, is optional. Version 1.1.4-1 (quantal), package size 132 kB, installed size 341 kB
<AlanBell> I have 1.1.4-1
<AlanBell> do I need the patched gvfs for rhythmbox?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<AlanBell> grumble grumble should be in quantal grumble
<MartijnVdS> it's a rewrite of the GVFS mtp subsystem to not do the equivalent of "ls -lR" when a device is mounted
<MartijnVdS> (but instead just request files as necessary)
<MartijnVdS> because that's why it hangs/timeouts: it's getting file info on EVERY file and dir on the device
<MartijnVdS> and maybe even setting up change monitoring on them..
<AlanBell> yeah, I ended up using go-mtp and doing rm -rf on the music folder of the device to clear it out so it would sync again
<AlanBell> which got about a GB of stuff on it, but it seemed only a few tracks of each CD
<AlanBell> 55 CDs doesn't seem like an unreasonable amount, we probably have 100 or so in total
<MartijnVdS> it is not
<AlanBell> so, I compile https://github.com/philipl/gvfs then rhythmbox starts working?
<MartijnVdS> but as the gvfs code is enumerating EVERY file (music or not) on the device before you can use it
<MartijnVdS> it should yes
<MartijnVdS> well
<AlanBell> cool, I will try that
<MartijnVdS> compile, install (make sure you can uninstall), etc.
<AlanBell> yeah, will do
<AlanBell> then I will try it on my clean SSD
<Wobbo> Wat is een goed vervanging dan "EOG afbeeldingenweergave".
<Wobbo> Aangezien nu al maanden lang een bug heeft die niet opgelost wordt. Heb ik een andere nodig.
<AlanBell> hello Wobbo
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: Verkeerde taal :)
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: dit is het Engelse kanaal
<Wobbo> Lol
<Wobbo> No problem... Sorry.
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: which EOG bug is that?
<Wobbo> That bug is still not fixed.
<MartijnVdS> Which bug though?
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog has the list of reported eog bugs
<Wobbo> I am using 3x 1080x1920 screens using AMD.
 * AlanBell dislikes the mystery dependency hunt when compiling things
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: apt-get build-dep libgvfs
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that should get you the basics
<Wobbo> somehow all jpeg's wil stay color white.
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: cool, I found it, was  libgcrypt11-dev mostly
<AlanBell> but it doesn't make
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: apt-get source libgvfs, look in debian/rules for the ./configure line
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1278651/
<Wobbo> PNG's are still working.
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: Have you filed a bug report, so people can work on a fix?
<Wobbo> Where en how?
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: from the command line: ubuntu-bug eog
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: or look if it has already been reported on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog and mark yourself as "also affected"
<AlanBell>  /o\ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=672099
<lubotu3> Debian bug 672099 in src:gvfs "gvfs: FTBFS: gvfsafpvolume.c:1085:3: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type" [Serious,Fixed]
<Wobbo> LibreOffice has problems whit my resolution (3x 1080x1920).
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog/+bug/938751
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 938751 in eog (Ubuntu Precise) "jpeg images are washed out or colors are skewed " [Low,Confirmed]
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: it might be a video driver bug then
<AlanBell> will try again later, sounds like some tricky merging of stuff will be in order
<Wobbo> Is there an alternative then eog?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Wobbo> Why cant i install https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog the latest version: 3.6.0: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/eog_3.6.0-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<brobostigon> Wobbo: easiest, might be to add the gnome3-teams ppa, and install from there.
<Wobbo> ppa:gnome3-teams of  ppa:ubuntugnometeam/gnome3 ?
<brobostigon> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/gnome3-team/gnome3/ubuntu quantal main
<Wobbo> All update ar not possible.
<brobostigon> did you change quantal to the ubuntu version you are running, and added it to your software sources properly?
<Wobbo> Yes, there are a lot of updates now, but
<brobostigon> Wobbo: yes, as that repo contains the whole of gnome3, and its apps.
<brobostigon> Wobbo: just update EOG, then disable the repo again.
<Wobbo> not all are possible. And after to fix it, it returns that isnât possible.
<brobostigon> Wobbo: yes, that is normal, due to some possible package clashes.
<popey> morning all
<brobostigon> morning popey
<Wobbo> Same where updated but there are still a lot left.
<Wobbo> Those are not selectable.
<Wobbo> And i do not see anything about EOG 3.6.0
<brobostigon> let me check here, it should be in there.
 * AlanBell fixes gvfs with one &
<Wobbo> nope nothing about EOG has an update.
<Wobbo> If I throw away gnome3-teams I get more problems then be full
<Wobbo> be full
<Wobbo> How to get gnome3-teams away again?
<brobostigon> you are right, the newsest i can see here, is in the quantal main repo.
<brobostigon> Wobbo: you can just disable the repo, and then apt-get update, to rebuild your package lists.
<AlanBell> sudo ppa-purge ppa:ubuntugnometeam/gnome3
<AlanBell> that is how to undo a PPA
<brobostigon> thank you AlanBell , i didnt think of that.
<Wobbo> the only simple thing I need is to see JPEG again
<AlanBell> Wobbo: got a link to a PDF that doesn't display right?
<AlanBell> oh, sorry eog, not evince
<AlanBell> err, what is wrong with it Wobbo? displays jpegs just fine for me on quantal
<Wobbo> There is a bug for my resolution.
<Wobbo> I need another software than EOG...
<Wobbo> So, what is the best other software than EOG. Just to see pictures.
<Wobbo> nothing more nothing less
<Wobbo> and I'll just wait until it's fixed
<Wobbo> but until that time I need any other software to do it
<Wobbo> but until that time I need any other software to do it
<Wobbo> sorry
 * popey looks at prices for mSATA drives
<AlanBell> Wobbo: what is wrong with it?
<danawar2> Hey ubuntu uk i am unable to download ubuntu from the website is there another location i can download ubuntu 12.04:32 from?
<soreau> !torrent
<lubotu3> Some torrent clients: Transmission (GTK and terminal-based), Deluge-Torrent, Freeloader, BitStormLite, BitTornado-GUI (GTK), KTorrent (KDE), QTorrent (Qt), Azureus/Vuse (Java), !Frostwire (Java), TorrentFlux (web-based), bittornado, rTorrent, cTorrent, bittorrent, aria2 (terminal-based) - FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/help/faq - See also !P2P
<AlanBell> http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04.1/
<soreau> !download
<lubotu3> Ubuntu installation CDs can be downloaded from http://releases.ubuntu.com - Mirrors can be found at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors - PLEASE use the !torrents to download !Precise, and help keeping the servers' load low!
<soreau> !torrents
<lubotu3> Precise can be torrented from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/simple/precise/desktop/ubuntu-12.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://torrent.ubuntu.com/simple/precise/server/ubuntu-12.04-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your needs. Other flavors can be found at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I think I have installed the patched gvfs and restarted but it doesn't work again
<AlanBell> you would think Canonical would be all over this if they are targetting consumers
<soreau> Depends on what you mean by customers
<soreau> canonical seems to be selling out more and more every year
<AlanBell> consumers/home users
<soreau> It seems they're only worried about appeasing customers (such as Dell and anyone that pays them through a contract)
<popey> that's flat out not true
<soreau> it used to not be as true
<AlanBell> even if it was true, I would be fine if it worked :)
<AlanBell> rhythmbox works well for a couple of CDs but trying to sync more than that results in so many popup error messages that gtk-window-decorator crashes
<AlanBell> you can just see the shadow of the error message get darker and darker as they build up :(
<czajkowski> morning
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<lmp> morning
<danfish> hi, it's been a while
<brobostigon> hi danfish
<brobostigon> wb danfish :)
<danfish> :)
<AlanBell> hi danfish
<AlanBell> joining us next thursday?
<brobostigon> what is the empathy-telepathy package to talk to bonjour, that local network jabber thingie.?
<danfish> AlanBell: would love to, but have to work :(
<danfish> hope the chickens are all well
<AlanBell> they are, I have just been clearing up poop in the garden
<MartijnVdS> is that a threat? :P
<AlanBell> you would think I pooped it myself given the conversation that preceeded the cleanup
<AlanBell> how are the ducks?
<danfish> very well
<danfish> peking and crispy are producing eggs ++
<AlanBell> eggcellent
<danfish> getting a couple of goslings next month
<AlanBell> oh that is cool
<AlanBell> they won't be ready for christmas then :)
<danfish> heh!
<danfish> my dad used to buy a turkey 'teenager' and fatten it up for xmas. Stupid animals.
<danfish> hmm, do-release-upgrade -d isn't showing 12.10
<popey> it wont if you have update manager set to LTS only
<popey> see /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
<danfish> ah - my bad. Thanks!
<czajkowski> danfish: was just thinking I'd not seen you around lately
 * MartijnVdS plans his Cornwall holiday a bit more
<danfish> czajkowski: true. hope you're good. Weird few months but normality being restored
<danfish> MartijnVdS: the eden project is aces1
<MartijnVdS> danfish: It's on my list :)
<MartijnVdS> I hope the weather will be like the weather is on Google Streetview
<MartijnVdS> I'll be going in the same week as those pictures were taken
<danfish> MartijnVdS: the weather here is amazing today. Simply stunning. I hope you get the same.
 * AlanBell deletes all music on the nexus and tries again with a fresh clean Quantal
<AlanBell> 716 out of 723 songs transferred
<bigcalm> Ello peeps
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that's a lot of Justine Bieber bootlegs you have
<AlanBell> heh, the little known big sister
<danfish> AlanBell: Neil Diamond?
<AlanBell> danfish: yes, that is in there
<AlanBell> bit curious why I have three copies of Queen greatest hits 2
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: because you love it VERY much?
<AlanBell> three copies of greatest hits 1 I could understand
<danfish> AlanBell: any Scissor Sisters and Elton John per chance?
<AlanBell> yes,yes
<AlanBell> but only one scissor sisters track
<danfish> I don't feel like dancing?
<AlanBell> we're not gonna take it
<MartijnVdS> gangnam style?
<AlanBell> nope, not got that
<MartijnVdS> One Direction?
<AlanBell> dunno, I have a JLS cd, not sure I have 1D
<AlanBell> both are in the "kids like it" area
<christel> uh huh :P
<AlanBell> as is the "pop princesses" cd
<AlanBell> nothing to do with me, that one
<MartijnVdS> only on sunday afternoons, right
<bootljhfdsds> I'm looking for the Weekly *video from Distrowatch* .. does anybody have the weblink ?
<bootljhfdsds> AlanBell, , the LUG starts next week in Douglas, I hope it all goes well...
<AlanBell> yeah, hope so
<penguin42> bootljhfdsds: IoMLug?
<DJones> Daft question, but following Baumgartner's skydive where he's hoping to fall from 23 miles above ground level, what happens to to the ballon & capsule? Do they stay up there, or crash land on somebody's house
<AlanBell> isn't he doing it in Australia?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: New Mexico
<AlanBell> oh, slightly out then :)
<DJones> Its close
<Pendulum> tbh, I think it's really being done in an area of New Mexico that's mostly desert
<AlanBell> oh, he is Austrian, thats where my head went wrong
<penguin42> very similar :-)
<DJones> Pendulum: Yeah, but you know the proverb about butterflies flapping their wings affecting the weather, one gust of wind & he could end up in Australia :)
<Pendulum> haha
<andyc> DJones, I dont know for certain but I'd say the balloon will burst and the capsule will drop down with a parachute
<andyc> Like one of those weather balloons people are so fond of attaching GPS and a camera to these days
<apacheuk> wasn't there another famous weather balloon crash in Roswell, New Mexico? :)
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
 * AlanBell files an interesting banshee bug
<MartijnVdS> What's wrong?
<AlanBell> will show you in a bit
<AlanBell> bug 1066519
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1066519 in banshee (Ubuntu) "wrong title in context menu when using two CD drives" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066519
<bootljhfdsds> penguin42, Yes indeedy-do.
<penguin42> bootljhfdsds: Apologies from the Manchester Lug (ManLUG) for taking your name :-)
<bootljhfdsds> penguin42, That's fine... I think that's really manchester's anyway.
<bootljhfdsds> I takle it that there are more than afew LUG's in the Northwest ??
<bootljhfdsds> **take it
<penguin42> yes
<jacobw> there's quite a lot in the north east too
<bootljhfdsds> I've heard of a Blackpool one.
<bootljhfdsds> mmmph.. What other LUG's are in the North West. ??
<penguin42> bootljhfdsds: I think there is a liverpool one; I don't know of others
<penguin42> I know of a sheffield one just over the boundary in Yorkshire
<bootljhfdsds> I think there is an East Lancs one.
<jacobw> BradLUG, WYLUG, Huddersfield LUG, Sheffield LUG, York LUG
<bootljhfdsds> Is there a Carlaisle one (soz 4 spelling)
<bootljhfdsds> ?
<jacobw> might be too small an area
<bootljhfdsds> Funny thing.. I found a redbrick house for Â£22k a year ago .. but because I couldn't find a LUG in the area .. I said No.
<jacobw> 22k?
<bootljhfdsds> yep .. rightmove was it ?
<jacobw> probably :)
<bootljhfdsds> **rightmove.co.uk i think ??
<jacobw> i just spend a few minutes at google trying to spell carlisle
<bootljhfdsds> anyway, we're looking to indulge in plenty of cakes .. Anyone know of any new one's .. We've only a Tesco here.
<bootljhfdsds> **   ??
<bootljhfdsds> Well anyway .. I saw they do a hardcore line in cupcakes these days .. so that is the default.
<bootljhfdsds> :)
<jacobw> sounds good
<SuperEngineer> BBC 24 news now... Roswell sky dive live [Baumgartner is currently climbing]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/
<SuperEngineer> cheers penguin42
<penguin42> still looks like he's got quite a way to go up first
<SuperEngineer> 2 hours clim yet
<SuperEngineer> *climb
<Pendulum> DJones: the online feed just answered your recovery question
<bootljhfdsds> yes I did see that a while ago on youtube .. 2 hours climb .. still better than The Z Factor.
<SuperEngineer> seems so sad to see Endevour with it's windows blocked out, crawling through L.A. whilst 1 single man flies up in a ballon
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's the American way
<SuperEngineer> ...loke the blindfold of a man against a firing squad :(
<bootljhfdsds> I think they had a close miss going thru LA according to Yahoo news.
<penguin42> there was a great LA picture somewhere taken from behind some houses where you can see some kids playing basketball and peeping through a gap in the houses you can see the shuttle going past
<SuperEngineer> bootljhfdsds: I think it safe to assume an emergeny stop didn't take same distance as a car does!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: not a drive-by shooting?
<bootljhfdsds> true.
<andyc> Does anyone every experience tab flickering when using a maximised chromium window?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: very apt ;)
<penguin42> bootljhfdsds:    https://plus.google.com/photos/+GuyKawasaki/albums/5798978099058303329/5798978100863669698   (shuttle)
<andyc> This is in unity in 12.10 beta with all updates installed
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: WHY would basketball be cooler than a space shuttle going by your house?!
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: No, I don't get it either, but it's a great shot
<MartijnVdS> it is
<SuperEngineer> latest news .... space shuttlew drops the blindfold, sees kids playing basketball & flips a wing to knock them over... "oi! I'm over hear" Endevour shouts
<SuperEngineer> ...then cops put blindfold back on shuttle, & make Endevour continue it's death march
 * bigcalm returns from yet another wedding fair
<bigcalm> Getting married is such an ordeal
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: your own, or someone else's? :)
<bigcalm> My own wedding, this sort of time next year
<penguin42> bigcalm: so you don't fancy a nice simple one and a quick snack from the local takeaway; a lot easier?
<bigcalm> :S
<SuperEngineer> yea gads! you go a quick bath whilst Baumgartner's climbing... & what happens... flash crashes & takes t'internet conxn with it.  Not impressed.
<jacobw> how would flash crashing take the network stack with it?
<n1_> hi. anyone using vodafone dongle to connect? how can i check if it is in usb or network mode (as usb modeswitch alread y comes preinstalled)?
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: it seems it was other way round, t'internet conxn failed, so flash called it a crash...
 * MartijnVdS goes to poke at his internet connection
<SuperEngineer>  me just - still... silly flash for recognising something I didn't recognise instantly either ;)
<MartijnVdS> I really really hope those fibre people come next month
<MartijnVdS> DSL just dropped another 2 mbtis
<MartijnVdS> mbits
 * SuperEngineer blames solar maximum... broadband been droppng & now 3 mobile [normally reliable fast fallback] keeps dropping
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah, I blame my coworkers :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I work at my ISP.. I've checked the systems, they put a new "profile" on the line, one that lowers the speed more agressively
<MartijnVdS> (so bad lines are more stable)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: hmmmmmmm
 * SuperEngineer wonders if Baumgartner proves a human can safely break sound barrier SuperEngineer can argue that UK m'way speed limit *is* too low
<SuperEngineer> [which - in case- is a *very* variable spped limit] ;)
<SuperEngineer> *speed
<penguin42> that page is starting to get jittery for me
 * SuperEngineer wonders if apple are using the live redbullstratos feed to improve their mapping 
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: no, just to make it worse
<popey> no video here
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: "In 3 miles, go up into the stratosphere"
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: :D
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "please enter your desired destination"... please .... no!
<SuperEngineer> popey: you trying to waTCH redbullstratos?
<popey> ya
<SuperEngineer> it is getting close to point of max height - could be a case of site full... refresh?
<SuperEngineer> popey:  failing success... try beeb or sky, they keep cutting back to it when relevant
<popey> live stream on bbc website works fine
<SuperEngineer> cool
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Hmm I wonder whether there is actually a bug with a long running live stream; quitting/restarting mine has helped
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: ditto
<SuperEngineer> [bet it stalls just when he jumps]
<popey> bah, need to put kids to bed
<SuperEngineer> yea gads! he's nearly as high as I got in my youth schmoking things not necessarily sold by tobacco companies! ;)
<SuperEngineer> popey: would you have sent them bed during 1st moon landing?  force them to stay away
<SuperEngineer> from bed
 * SuperEngineer just realised... he's still not as high as a certain person at Canonical went!
<popey> phew!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well, I guess that's your canonical height reference
<DJones> SuperEngineer: Yeah, but since one of Pans people is going that high........ What does that say
<SuperEngineer> DJones: hmmmmmm
 * SuperEngineer liked 1 of Pan's peeps quite a lot
<DJones> I wonder if Baumgartner packed his own parachute?
<SuperEngineer> DJones: ooo... don't say that! I've suffered that fate once myself!
<SuperEngineer> ["oh drat, oh darn" I recall saying as a candle appeared my head!]
<SuperEngineer> go Felix go! & may the Gods speed you safely
<Pendulum> I wonder if his mother was actually able to watch the first part of that fall.
<SuperEngineer> 690mph!
<DJones> The first part of the fall was probably the easiest, I'd be more worried about the last few feet
<Pendulum> Yeah, but visually is the part that visually looks the worst (at least in my opinion)
<Pendulum> because of the rolling
<DJones> I wouldn't mind the 130,000 ft fall, just the sudden stop at the end could be annoying
<zleap> http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/
<SuperEngineer> comment from Queen_UK on twitter: "Try parachuting into an Olympic Opening Ceremony, moonbeam."  ;)
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> gord, mSATA SSD arrives tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes :)
<popey> have to take the keyboard off to get to it
<Neoti_Laptop> anyone around tonight .....
<hamitron> depends if there are free gifts
<Neoti_Laptop> Bottle of wine ...... :P
<hamitron> bottle of cheap beer would have done ;)
<Neoti_Laptop> yuk.... i hate beer ...... only spirits or wine for me.
<Neoti_Laptop> iv not been in the ubuntu room for a while.... whats the topic at the mo
<hamitron> ubuntu normally
<Neoti_Laptop> LOLz..... doh! (Homer simpson style)
<hamitron> I guess this room does cover a fair bit more
<hamitron> :)
<Neoti_Laptop> well to change tack slightly..... im on the look out for any watch guard X700's etc.... if anyone would be kind enough to donate me a few .......
<dwatkins> bacon
<hamitron> I just had old pizza
<Neoti_Laptop> Meat Feast Pizza for me..... yum yum....
<hamitron> plain cheese pizza from wednesday night
<hamitron> ;)
<Neoti_Laptop> yum.
<hamitron> fungus included no doubt
<hamitron> but looked ok I think
<Neoti_Laptop> Anyone going to IPEXPO ?
<popey> there's a load on ebay Neoti_Laptop
<Neoti_Laptop> i know i have bidded on them .
<Neoti_Laptop> just waiting ....
<Neoti_Laptop> i need a couple of a project ....
<Neoti_Laptop> well a home lab really ...
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> does anyone here have an experience with UKBA?
<Neoti_Laptop> Nope
<Neoti_Laptop> i personally don't
<shauno> the border agency?  I try to avoid them as much as humanly possible
<szymon_g> :| crap than
<xnox> szymon_g: I have.
<xnox> szymon_g: i can chat in private about it.
<szymon_g> ok
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-07
<ball> When I re-do this I may put Xubuntu back on it ...or perhaps Elementary.
<ball> Let's try this Ubuntu Software Center thing out.
<ball> I'll probably be back later, after the updates are done.
<ball> Bye daftykins!
<MooDoo> morning all
<ging> why does ubuntu always hesitate so much when you give it the wrong password, i seem to know it's wrong before it does, is there some sort of rate limiting that no other OS seems to use or set so high?
<BigRedS>  yeah, it's ratelimiting
<MooDoo> ging: does this help you? - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1176427
<ging> nope, it does not contain a petition to get the default delay time cut to atleast half
<MooDoo> is there an entry in /etc/pam.d/login that has something like this in it? - auth       optional   pam_faildelay.so  delay=3000000
<MooDoo> this is the page I got that from http://superuser.com/questions/165550/change-password-timeout-on-linux
<jussi> INSECURITY!!! :P
<jussi> I remember Linus complaining about this at some point...
<MooDoo> yeah I know, I'm just googling for them ;)
<ging> being able to change it doesn't help me, i'm not going to go round and change it on every ubuntu machine i have to use, it will take me forever
<MooDoo> in that case, don't get your password wrong ;)
<ging> i just thing, imagine all those 2 seconds that get wasted, all that lost productivity, could be cut in half and still be just as secure
<shauno> devil's advocate could argue that if people aren't capable of typing something they use daily, they're probably losing much more than 2 seconds a day elsewhere
<SuperMatt> I would say that rate limiting bad passwords is perfectly acceptable
<SuperMatt> because it keep brute force attacks from being anywhere near viable
<SuperMatt> and at most I only ever type my password incorrectly twice before I slowly and purposefully type each character while staring at the keyboard to ensure I got it right
<SuperMatt> so what, 10 seconds wasted?
<SuperMatt> it's hardly the end of the world
<SuperMatt> it's wasting more of my day right now to run my apt-get upgrade
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: 10 seconds, you can breath twice in that time, stop wasting breaths ;)
<SuperMatt> I think it's about time I signed up to the release party
<SuperMatt> gotta make sure I get there early enough for a shirt this time
<popey> Don't feed the ging.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> popey: troll? lol
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<MooDoo> well started my ubuntu wiki page, it's a bit bare at the moment lol
<Dave-Maydew> Wonder if anyone can help? I'm using a i5 with 8Gb RAM, Radeon 5450 and 2 monitors on Ubuntu 12.04.3. When I go to play a game, like Warzone 2100 it spreads itself across the 2 monitors, which is a little crazy, is there a way around this?
<directhex> Dave-Maydew, this is a per-game problem
<Dave-Maydew> Ok, cheers
<Dave-Maydew> I was going to buy another GPU, when I saw this happen
<directhex> try running the game in a window instead of fullscreen
<Dave-Maydew> I shall give it a try, many thanks
<Dave-Maydew> Last question... Unity and multi monitors, when I press the workspace switcher, is there any way of just making it 4 spaces instead of the 8?
<MooDoo> Dave-Maydew: does this help? -  http://www.ryanchapin.com/Home?article_id=714
<Dave-Maydew> You are a star, been googling this all last night, and I thought I'd give the irc a try for the first time!! thanks MooDoo
<MooDoo> you're welcome
<Dave-Maydew> I'm a sight impaired user, and 2 monitors have been a great help, and the only reason for using Unity is the fact that it's what I'm used to
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Habitat Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait how are you
<JamesTait> Hey MooDoo! :)  Very well thanks, yourself?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: marvelous, playing around with my page on the ubuntu wiki :D
<MooDoo> lol
<JamesTait> Oh yeah, I have one of those somewhere.  I should probably update it.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/paulmellors mine is bare ;) lol
<JamesTait> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesTait
<MooDoo> nice, I want to becoming a ubuntu member, so baby steps ;)
<JamesTait> I was looking into membership as well, but to be honest, most of my contribution has been from my day job, and on the server side, so I don't think it really counts.
<MooDoo> well to be honest, i'm only really active here for the moment, but it's a start
<JamesTait> MooDoo, like you said, baby steps. ;)
<SuperMatt> hurrr, I just realised, windows 8.1 will be released the day after saucy
<SuperMatt> which means canonical will have put out three versions between 8 and 8.1
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: about bloody time, windows 8 sucks without start menu
<SuperMatt> final two weeks now :)
<SuperMatt> good luck to everyone contributing :)
<MooDoo> I'm only using LTS ubuntu any way :)
<SuperMatt> I just can't bring myself to only use lts
<SuperMatt> I love being up to date way too much
<MooDoo> I don't need anything else lol
<SuperMatt> that's fair enough
<SuperMatt> but I find that knowing what's coming for my servers at work, I can be more prepared for when the next LTS comes out
<kecskebak> And in the bit about Ubuntu, the history of the Alans... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
<kecskebak> My wife told me about them this morning and I immediatley thought of this place!
<SuperMatt> ah yes, the cult of alan
<kecskebak> In Hungary they're known as Jasz, and there are towns and even a county named after them.
<shauno> that's quite worrying
<MooDoo> we've known about the cult of alans for ages, just make sure they don't get you to join their cult on their day of days [normally the real ale train] ;)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 how are you this fine day?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I feel lousy worst nights sleep in a long time :(  On a plus side I'm alive \o/ so can't grumble too much :)  You?
<MooDoo> yeah I'm ok thanks, just gettting over manu flu, editing wikis and launchpad stuff for me and writting the odd blog post, nothing exciting
<daubers> o/
<MooDoo> hi daubers
<davmor2> daubers: morning
<daubers> How do?
<MooDoo> yeah good you?
<daubers> Not bad :) Finally recovering from the stupid depression thing
<MooDoo> daubers: thats good news :)
<daubers> MooDoo: Indeedly! Finally able to start getting things done again
<MooDoo> good stuff :)
<davmor2> daubers: oh that's easy, you just stand on the hill that surrounds you, on a more serious note glad to hear it :)
<daubers> davmor2: :-p
<davmor2> daubers: hey no fair the last bit was nice :P  Depression sucks dude I am glad you have managed to get out of it :)
<daubers> davmor2:  It's a bit easier to get out of the second time around
<dvrr> hiiiiiiiiiiii
<davmor2> dvrr: hoooooooooooo
<popey> hello.
<MooDoo> hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiya
<davmor2> MooDoo: turns into Laura
<MooDoo> davmor2: thanks for that davmor2 :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: whenever I see hiya written for some reason my brain hears the intro to UUPC and Laura excitedly saying it sorry :D
<MooDoo> it's fine, compare me to laura, we are similar after all :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: No, no you're not.
<shauno> I just read popey's tweet about making progress on the progress meter, and I can't figure out if he did it on purpose, or something something coffee
<popey> â»
<popey> Carefully worded.
<shauno> slightly disappointed it didn't start with "yo dawg, I heard you like progress .."
<neuro> sup
<davmor2> neuro: the sky
<MooDoo> neuro: bitter
<neuro> you all weird, yo
<davmor2> MooDoo: you don't want bitter up you want it in a pint glass surely?
<MooDoo> davmor2: i want it in my belly
 * neuro terminates a couple of ec2 instances
<neuro> DIEEEEEE!
<davmor2> neuro: I think you'll find that is "sudo kill -9" die die die
<neuro> actually this time it was click-click-rightclick-Terminate
<davmor2> neuro: it's not as much fun when you have to use the mouse is it :D
<neuro> na
<neuro> would have done a cli call to do it, but wanted to make sure exactly what i was doing was what i intended to do
<neuro> didn't want to do something stupid like take out a mail server or a db slave, that would have suuuuuuucked
<davmor2> neuro: Maybe have the mouse point change to a sword over the terminate button and a bloody sword when you click on terminate would make it more enjoyable :D
<neuro> :)
<neuro> i'm also saving the company 30 quid a month by doing that, so there's that happy feeling also
<shauno> use the mincraft-pi stuff to make a physical server farm that you go around punching to terminate things
<neuro> that would be epic
<neuro> boss: why are you playing minecraft? me: i am totally managing the cluster here boss: ah, ok, carry on me: *punches skeleton*
<popey> This is a Minecraft system. I know this!
<neuro> :)
<MooDoo> feed the beast
<davmor2> MooDoo: Feed Me Seymore
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol little shop of horrors mod for minecradt ;)
<SuperMatt> what's the current state of core apps in touch now? Would I, for instance, be able to play an mp4 that I can normally play in totem?
<popey> depends what videos you'd watch in totem â»
<SuperMatt> mostly uhhh... backups of tv shows
<Myrtti> oh man, backups would be nice, my Harry Potter DVD's are in UK :-(
<SuperMatt> well, use "the offsite-backup bay"
<SuperMatt> though I think people use the world pirate intercangably with offsite-backup
<Myrtti> the sad part is that if I have backups.
<Myrtti> on a hard drive, in UK.
<Myrtti> :-|
<SuperMatt> doh
<SuperMatt> at my last work place, we set up an offsite backup ring, just in case anyone's house burned down
<shauno> I had a backup burried in the back garden for a while.  protip: don't do that.
<SuperMatt> ....
<SuperMatt> what medium did you use?
<shauno> CDs.  it seemed to make sense.  they come in a handy plastic tub, you just need to seal it?
<SuperMatt> sure
<SuperMatt> so what went wrong?
<SuperMatt> other than the fact that writable CDs have a limited lifespan
<shauno> I guess sealing it isn't as easy as it looks
<popey> i like the idea though
<popey> hard disk + silica gel in a sealed sandwich bag inside a tupperware box, upside down in a hole in the ground
<shauno> luckily I didn't need the backup, but when I went to swap them out a year later, I couldn't separate one disk from the next
<dwatkins> were they melted together, shauno?
<popey> wait.. you put a stack of CDs not in their cases?
<shauno> right.  just like when you buy a spindle
<popey> you properly didn't think that through â»
<SuperMatt> my backup solution comprises of all the disks I can fit in to my PC
<SuperMatt> though I'm gonna get a nas soon
 * MooDoo got nas, but wants a synology naas
<MooDoo> nas not naas
<diplo> SuperMatt: Doesn't help if the house burns down
<MooDoo> I have a laptop to server, server to nas, nas to offsite usb :)
<SuperMatt> diplo: no, it doesn't
<SuperMatt> I think it's worth just having a rind of friends and a TB external hdd each
<BigRedS> my backup solution is basically github
<SuperMatt> tbh, to back up the things I really care about, I only really need 100G of space
 * popey hugs his microserver
<SuperMatt> is that the n54l?
<popey> 40
<popey> original one
<SuperMatt> oh?
<shauno> I still like my time capsule idea.  but now that I measure my megabits in plurals, there's much simpler ways
<SuperMatt> how many disks can that take?
<diplo> I backup to my microserver and then to work
<diplo> I back my parents to my house
<popey> I have 13 in mine
<popey> with an external array
<SuperMatt> usb stuff, right?
<SuperMatt> how's butterfs working for you now?
<popey> no
<popey> no USB
<popey> all SATA
<SuperMatt> cool
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6204848/
<BigRedS> I just decided that a nosql version of SQLite should exist, and it does!
<SuperMatt> blimey
<BigRedS> and it's got perhaps the most buzzword-compliant introduction I've ever seen
<shauno> now that's efficient
<BigRedS> "noSQLite is a lightweight zeroconf noSQL document-oriented forking Python SQLite networked authenticated XMLRPC database server."
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6204851/
<SuperMatt> so btrfs is working quite well then
<popey> fine for me
<SuperMatt> I want to move a lot of my stuff to btrfs, but I think I'm going to wait until btrfs-convert works again
<mgdm> popey: they played a Code Club promo video over the weekend at the conference I was at in Manchester - it was a work of genius
<mgdm> popey: (one involving a kid reading out HTML, etc...)
<SuperMatt> dang, google play music doesn't work in the ubuntu touch browser :(
<mgdm> popey: you're involved in one, aren't you?
<bigcalm> Loved that video
<popey> ya
<popey> seen the other video?
<popey> where they interview someone?
<popey> www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxhGIajRsq4â
<bigcalm> What's the game on the laptop? http://youtu.be/FxhGIajRsq4?t=35s
<mgdm> popey: not yet, but I shall now!
<bigcalm> I think the video we saw at phpnw13 was better
<bigcalm> We've just been sent the electoral roll form. Anybody know when they need to be filled in and returned by?
<directhex> i got one too
<bigcalm> Wondering if we were to leave it until after Hayley possibly takes my name
<bigcalm> (She still hasn't 100% decided)
<bigcalm> Nothing on the form or letter with it says anything about when to return it by
<dwatkins> ...and yet it's a legal requirement to register to vote
<diddledan> bigcalm: as far as mine says it's just "asap"
<diddledan> they don't seem to have listed a date on it
<bigcalm> diddledan: think asap could be 26th October?
<bigcalm> I'll be married by then :D
<diddledan> other than that they'll publish the edited register in februrary
<diddledan> I would expect a month from receipt is still acceptible
<bigcalm> Goodo
<diddledan> you could be on a long summer holiday :-p
<dutchie> W: Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring-updates/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.156 80]
<dutchie> anybody else?]
<neuro> dutchie: there is no Sources file
<neuro> just bzipped or gzipped versions of same
<dutchie> surely apt-get update should see those though>?
<daubers> popey: I have a bug for Ubuntu Touch
<popey> just one?
<daubers> popey: It doesn't prevent me from being an idiot and dropping my phone, breaking both the screen and digitiser
 * daubers now has to wait until he can afford to get it mended properly :(
<popey> ouch
<popey> what device?
<daubers> Galaxy Nexus
<daubers> Â£180 for a new glass and digitiser
<popey> yowzer
<popey> you can buy a 2nd hand one for 140
<directhex> daubers, buy a new nexus 4 for less
<popey> or that
<daubers> Might just see if I'm due an upgrade
<popey> galaxy nexus has a better screen
<popey> if a bit bright and maybe too vivid
<dvrr> popey
<popey> hmm?
<dvrr> i have configured jabberd2 server
<directhex> prosody!
<dvrr> but  i i am not able to create users
<popey> I am happy for you.
<dvrr> becouse
<dvrr> i fallowd  this uel  configured jabberd http://bionicraptor.ca/2011/05/20/how-to-install-and-configure-japperd2-with-mysql/
<dvrr> user account could not be created
<dvrr> popey
<popey> what?
<popey> Why are you pinging me?
<dvrr> users creating problem
<dvrr> this is big prob for me
<popey> I have no idea, never setup jabberd
<SuperMatt> ah nice, the adb backup tool is *exactly* what I needed before putting ubuntu on my nexus 10 :D
<czajkowski> aloha
 * popey stabs steam
<diddledan> *stab stab stab*
<diddledan> I like stabbing things
<davmor2> popey: you should get czajkowski to do that, she's had plenty of experience stabbing things and people :D
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> davmor2: was that a compliment or an insult?
<popey> its complaining that i dont have glx setup right
<davmor2> popey: do you have xmir installed?
<popey> of course not!
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6206056/
<popey> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/libGL.so.1 looks like it shouldn't be there, surely
<davmor2> popey: it just hates you then
<popey> it shouldn't be loading the mesa glx driver but the nvidia one
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<czajkowski> oi you
<ali1234> what are you actually trying to do?
<popey> run steam
<ali1234> "run steam"
<popey> it pops up a box telling me that it's doing software rendering
<popey> yes, "steam" in a terminal
<ali1234> using +1?
<popey> yup
<popey> used to work
<ali1234> it works for me currently i have not updated today though
<popey> but I yanked my nvidia card because it broke
<popey> so went back to intel, and now back on nvidia it's busted
<popey> if I run the 32-bit glxinfo it barfs because it's doing sw rendering
<ali1234> yesterday i tried to put my 5870 in my main computer to play games but it turns out the aftermarket cooler is too big for my case
<popey> so i remove libgl1-mesa-glx:i386
<popey> that removes the line from the ldconfig above
<popey> but then when I run steam it wants to re-install that package again and breaks
<ali1234> i see updates for mesa:i386
<ali1234> so i bet if i update it will break
<ali1234> libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 specifically
<davmor2> czajkowski: what you stab me and MooDoo and things galore when they annoy you so I reckon you'd be the best person to stab popey 's steam
<ali1234> so anyone want to buy a slightly used (for bitcoin mining lol) 5870HD?
<ali1234> popey: yeah it appears to be broken now
<popey> aha!
<popey> when it prompts to install libgl1-mesa-dri:i386, press CTRL+C â»
<popey> works
<ali1234> why don't you have it installed?
 * popey tests a game
<popey> i just removed it
<popey> to test
<ali1234> why?
<popey> because it isnt needed
<popey> it breaks glxinfo, and steam
<ali1234> it shouldn't
<ali1234> and it is
<popey> by what?
<diddledan> bugfodder?
<popey> sure, once I figure where the bug is, I'll file it
<diddledan> \o/
 * popey tries xbox 360 controller with serious sam 3 bfe
<popey> that should test it
<davmor2> diddledan: bugfodder is a great game but it's not on par with canonfodder
<ali1234> popey: if i try to remove it, apt also tries to remove xorg
<popey> libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 on 64-bit ubuntu?
<ali1234> oh wait, no
<ali1234> that doesn't affect anything
<directhex> popey,  http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=&category1=998&category2=28&advanced=0#category1=998&os=linux&category2=28&sort_order=ASC&page=1
<directhex> those are linux games w/ full controller support
<popey> ta
<popey> well, that was fun
<popey> although I am rubbish with FPS games on controller
<ali1234> popey: but the thing is, the -dri package does not install a libGL1.so
<ali1234> that comes from -mesa-glx
<popey> not here
<popey> dpkg -S /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/libGL.so.1
<popey> told me
<ali1234> libgl1-mesa-glx:i386: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/libGL.so.1
<popey> maybe it lied
<popey> hmmm
<popey> did I remove the wrong one
<popey> libgl1-mesa-glx:i386: isn't installed here either
<ali1234> and if i try to remove that one i lose skype and wine
<popey> yeah, i did
<ali1234> they are dependant i guess
<ali1234> well, steam isn't actually broken here at all. it still works fine after the update
<popey> hmmm
<ali1234> you must have a problem with symlinks pointing to the wrong version or something
<popey> yeah, perhaps
<ali1234> reinstalling the packages again in the right order will probably fix it
<popey> yeah, not touching it for now.
<ali1234> i checked update-alternatives and it is not doing anything with mesa or glx
<popey> it's plausible i futzed around with symlinks at some point
<ali1234> maybe run jockey again (from command line)
<popey> unrelated, i keep getting 503 from steam community
<directhex> there's a bug
<popey> clicking on my own profile inside steam
<popey> ah
<ali1234> yeah i get that all the time
<directhex> there's a multiarch bug in mesa in 64-bit ubuntu before a certain release
<directhex> which makes it not possible to install the :i386 and :amd64 versions together
<ali1234> we're both using +1 fully updated
<directhex> dpkg -l libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 libgl1-mesa-dri:iamd64
<popey> i386 version installed only here
<directhex> eek
<ali1234> i have both
<SuperMatt> I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but touch really doesn't feel close to being ready at all :/
<SuperMatt> I'm using it on my nexus 10, trying to use the keyboard and it constantly selects things in the background, behind the keyboard
<SuperMatt> and also, the keyboard is in portrait mode when the device is landscape
<ali1234> heh
<popey> we haven't optimised for the nexus 10 at all
<ali1234> it's not supposed to be "ready" until 14.10 now
<popey> 360 controller in Dynamite Jack is all over the place
<ali1234> did you configure it in big picture mode?
<popey> goes in odd directions
<popey> oh, no
<popey> i am in big picture mode
<ali1234> it probably wont help if it is that messed up
<ali1234> yes but there is a controller config screen
<ali1234> in big picture, not in the game
<ali1234> not all games use it though
<popey> there is, it just says "controller detected xinput compatible controller"
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/2013-10-07-201035_1920x1080_scrot.png
<ali1234> i guess remapping is not allowed if the joypad is recognized by SDL
<ali1234> and also dynamite jack does not use SDL_gamepad
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-08
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Laney> xnox: royal mail?
<xnox> Laney: yeap.
<Laney> thinking about that
<Laney> how easy is it?
<czajkowski> aloha
<Laney> czzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzajkowski
<xnox> Laney: gov.uk website, web form, debit card, done. 3 minutes max.
<xnox> Laney: https://www.gov.uk/royalmailshares
<Laney> xnox: I felt obliged to read the huge prospectus
<Laney> and then it asked me about share dealers or something
<Laney> so got scared off
<xnox> Laney: if you are planning to invest under 10 000, just do it via gov.uk website (which is managed by a dedicated share dealer Royal Mail Share Dealings or some such)
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I don't understand what that even means
<xnox> Laney: or if you have existing investments accounts with your bank / mortgage / pension provider / stocks ISA, you could place an order through your dealer.
<Laney> would it be better to get a stocks and shares ISA for this?
<xnox> Laney: it means that you get an email that you have shares, yet physical printed copies are stored elsewhere in your name.
<xnox> Laney: could be, but the set-up takes about 2 weeks usually. And not worth the fees for an individual investment. Makes sense to have stocks & shares ISA, if you are into tracking news and spreading funds and making your decisions.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Face Your Fears Day! :-D
<shauno> that doesn't sound very happy :/
<JamesTait> shauno, I can't think of anything more positive. :)
<JamesTait> Well, I probably could if I tried.
<davmor2_> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<SuperMatt> oh man, I just jammed a new disk in my machine, ran btrfs device add and BLAMMO! I now one large disk instead of two of separate ones
<SuperMatt> <3 btrfs
<SuperMatt> I'm becoming more and more convinced to switch on my home PC
<xnox> SuperMatt: yes, now think about it, you no longer can unplug either of the hard-drivers. And if either of them fails you lose all your data.
<xnox> SuperMatt: thus you now have doubled your chances of loosing your data due to hardware failure.
<brobostigon> why not raid them? then no risk.
<SuperMatt> xnox: sure, but this isn't a production machine, this is just my work PC. I save all my important stuff to the network drive
<SuperMatt> and at home, I have other backup solutions
<xnox> brobostigon: doing raid 1, sure you can, but then no space gain either =(
<brobostigon> xnox: no space gain, bur safer, whichever is the priority.
<xnox> brobostigon: true, it's just e.g. there is no way at the moment to have two btrfs pools, one per drive. That way one would preserve data-locality and disaster locality.
<brobostigon> xnox: i see, fair point,
<xnox> brobostigon: e.g. if one drive has / and the other drive has /home, then with ext4, one hardware failure takes out only that part of data. With btrfs it always takes out all.
<xnox> =)
 * popey hugs btrfs
<popey> don't listen to the horrible man
<popey> SuperMatt: what kernel you running?
<SuperMatt>  3.11.0-11-generic
<SuperMatt> I'm saucy, baby
<SuperMatt> I'm almost always on +1
<popey> on the machine running btrfs?
<SuperMatt> yup
<brobostigon> xnox: very true.
<bigcalm> What looks best of the following?
<bigcalm> Run time: 2m 3s
<bigcalm> Runtime: 2m 3s
<bigcalm> Run-time: 2m 3s
<bigcalm> Which looks best
<bigcalm> I cannot English today
<davmor2> bigcalm: Time Taken ;)
<mgdm> davmor2++
<shauno> we always use runtime as one word, but that doesn't mean it's english, just jargon
<bigcalm> Humf
<bigcalm> I'm not sure I like the double capitalisation
<DJones> Ugh, changing work email providers is a pain, changeover great, but the amount of spam/virus/malware infected crap coming through on new account is annoying
<mgdm> bigcalm: then fix it :P
<bigcalm> mgdm: so ... much ... effort
<shauno> I hated our change-over because they got rid of my shortname.  I used to have shaun.o'neil@ and soneil@, and would always use the shortname because why the hell did they put an apostrophe in my email address. WHY?!
<mgdm> because it's perfectly valid! but not supported by basically anyone :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: depends who has to look at it.  If it is real people then use real words that mean something.  Runtime: to me means that the process is still running and has been for x time.  Time taken: (lower case second word) says this is how long it took.
<shauno> oh it's RFC-valid.  just not planet-earth valid.  total sad panda territory.
<davmor2> bigcalm: think Uptime on a server for example :)
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> Time taken it is then
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJtjJNrWf0
<popey> must watch
<popey> brilliance
 * bigcalm giggles
<Myrtti> *yawn*
 * popey boggles at chromecast pricing
<popey> Â£35 which is ~Â£21, but on amazon.co.uk it's Â£60!
 * mgdm wonders if his Cards Against Humanity have arrived
<jussi> popey: I paid 60â¬ including postage (but I did have a friend send it from the states)
<popey> blimey, that's still Â£50
<Myrtti> popey: the comments are telling
<jussi> popey: it is reasonable to use, but dont try watching streaming video in a browser
<jussi> Netflix and youtube are nice though
<diddledan> bug 63981 <-- I need to do some work to verify whether the bug is still present. problem is I don't have ubuntu on here right now :-p
<lubotu3> bug 52685 in xinit (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #63981 x11-common installs dup files" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52685
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> that's not the same bug
<diddledan> oh it's moved to freedesktop.org
<diddledan> I must have filed twice - once on ubuntu's launchpad and once on freedesktop.org
<brobostigon> good prog, floyd on food, bbc2 2:45. :)
<dwatkins> that's the middle of the night...
 * dwatkins ducks
<brobostigon> 2:45pm*
<dwatkins> I grew up amongst europeans, so I tend to use the 24-hour clock a lot of the time. I assume everyone's familiar enough with it that it's understandable.
<shauno> does that mean we're not europeans?
 * brobostigon gets dwatkins a binary clock, miles more simple.
<popey> lies
<popey> unless it has only two states. 0 = AM, 1 = PM
<popey> in which case, yes, way more simple
<SuperMatt> I think that's the clock that BT engineers and couriers use
<diddledan> seriously offtopic: I'm a nutjob, so please sign this petition or I'll ensure you're one of the 1200. (irony? seriously I would like folk to consider whether they feel mentally ill are misrepresented by this the Sun's article, and if you do then please sign the petition.) http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/thesunnewspaper-correct-the-sensationalism-in-your-mental-illness-story-and-donate-the-profits-from-it
<diddledan> (full disclosure, yes I'm a bona fide nutjob)
<diddledan> SuperMatt: yes, that's the clock they use, but it's usually running slow
<shauno> diddledan: so how many of 1200 were you?
<diddledan> shauno: most of them I think
<diddledan> I lost count
<diddledan> to be fair their random sample was a bit skewed when they included me :-p
<Laney> https://twitter.com/NottinghamCAMRA/status/387579186569035776/photo/1
<mgdm> that background is... dazzling
<diddledan> ee gads, my eyes
<bigcalm> ARGH
<dwatkins> ouch
<Laney> :D
<Laney> don't worry about that, take a look at the content instead
<dwatkins> the image of beer kegs unfortunately doesn't make up for the background
<Laney> click on it
<mgdm> it's CAMRA. It'll all be dull beer. :P
<Myrtti> AND CIDER
<Myrtti> don't forget the CIDER
<andyc> Can anyone recommend a gnome-do/synapse type launcher that is still actively in development?
<andyc> Can anyone recommend a gnome-do/synapse type launcher that is still actively in development?
<andyc> Oops sorry
<JohnRobert> hello, it's my yearly appearance
<JohnRobert> or is it rence
<daftykins> JohnRobert: ;)
<SuperMatt> has this been spammed here today? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24447313
<daftykins> ooh-err
<JohnRobert> new bbc micro?
<diddledan> I would hope the bbc would approach the raspi foundation
<SuperMatt> oh for sure
<SuperMatt> but there's no mention of the beeb releasing a new machine
<SuperMatt> it is, however, quite exciting
<SuperMatt> ooh, I must set up my google helpouts page
<popey> SuperMatt: you have an invite?
<SuperMatt> yup :D
<popey> nice
<diddledan> google helpouts?
<diddledan> interesting
<diddledan> SuperMatt: what are you going to help people do?
<SuperMatt> I was gonna do some basic linux stuff
<SuperMatt> like *really* basic
<JohnRobert> rm -rf /
<diddledan> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I like rm -rf .*
<JohnRobert> I like cat /dev/urandom > /dev/sd*
<diddledan> !danger
<dwatkins> I prefer to add '--' in case there's a file with a dash at the start.
<diddledan> c'mon lubotu3
<SuperMatt> so start with installing in a vm, teach them how to find rhythmbox, install flash, adobe reader, move on to some command line, and then hopefully get them to be able to install in live!
<SuperMatt> interesting...
<dwatkins> Flash never seems to install automatically in Firefox for me, I assume the 'reccomended' way is to apt-get install flashplugininstaller
<SuperMatt> you have to schedule an interview with a member of the Helpouts team
<SuperMatt> so they can see if you're qualified or not
<JohnRobert> interesting
<diddledan> o_O
<dwatkins> is the meeting request the test?
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<SuperMatt> it's not like I could have a test on sewing or something, if that's what I was helping out with
<JohnRobert> you could
<JohnRobert> they could say 'sew something'
<JohnRobert> then you'd spike your fingers lots
<JohnRobert> and they'ed deny you.
<SuperMatt> true
<diddledan> DENIED!
<SuperMatt> I'll have to do this part of the hangout on thursday
<SuperMatt> I've got dancing tonight and tomorrow
<SuperMatt> ah wait, it looks like you don't have to schedule a time with someone, but someone does need to review it
<SuperMatt> oh wait
<SuperMatt> yes, yes you do
<SuperMatt> hmmm... I think it might be worth prodding someone about setting up an official set of guidelines for people wishing to do google helpouts. Maybe I should take that task on
<popey> is it linux compatible?
<diddledan> popey: I would guess it's about as compatible as hangouts
<SuperMatt> popey: it just uses hangouts, as far as I'm aware
<SuperMatt> so these are the topics I would cover in beginners linux: http://helpouts.supermatt.net/
<diddledan> I like how vim got in there without it being an entirely separate topic :-p
<diddledan> beginners linux and beginners vim should be entirely individualised :-p
<SuperMatt> well I figure I should have it for very basic edits
<SuperMatt> press I to go to insert mode
<SuperMatt> type what you want
<SuperMatt> press esc
<SuperMatt> :wq
<SuperMatt> just so they can get by
<diddledan> :x
<diddledan> better than :wq - one character less :-p
<SuperMatt> I've never used :x
<SuperMatt> but then I guess I like being explicit when I do things
<SuperMatt> otherwise you become a dirty perl programmer
<diddledan> worse, I'm a dirty php programmer
<diddledan> dirty dirty dirty.. the dirt won't come out
<SuperMatt> I've added a few commands in there now
<SuperMatt> I don't think there are really any more a beginer should use
<diddledan> ls & cd
<SuperMatt> oh yah
<diddledan> maybe pwd as well
<SuperMatt> added
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> man
<SuperMatt> https://helpouts.google.com/offer/104760950939866700163/835dad061e4b03e7 is that visible to everyone?
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: I get: Helpouts isn't available yet, but we're currently inviting people with expertise across a number of topics to be able to offer Helpouts when we go live
<dwatkins> I guess I'm not special enough.
<SuperMatt> ah, fair enough
 * dwatkins signs-up
<diddledan> I get "when can I join?" page
<SuperMatt> I think if the community gets together and comes up with a syllabus, we can create a good experience for ubuntu noobs
<SuperMatt> more tweaks added
<MartijnVdS> why did Chrome just forget everything?
<brobostigon> thats happened to me on android the other day, everything needed to be authenticated again.
<popey> happens to me a lot
<MartijnVdS> popey: I've had my CHrome get in a weird state before, where opening a new window (say, from clicking a link in a terminal) would say "I couldn't open your profile"
<MartijnVdS> popey: but never "Hey this is Chrome, do you want this to be your default browser?"
<MartijnVdS> and then having to log in again to get my bookmarks back
<popey> oof
<brobostigon> is it stable chrome? or unstable?
<MartijnVdS> Versie 31.0.1650.12 beta
<MartijnVdS> so, technically, neither :P
<brobostigon> let me try beta on my nexus7, thats has it installed.
<MartijnVdS> that had its icon removed from my home screen as well, now that I think of it
<MartijnVdS> thought that was a pocket-phone action
<brobostigon> there is that new, 'add to home screen' function in beta.
<MartijnVdS> how is it different from dragging it there from the app list?
 * MartijnVdS can't find the function you're referring to?
<brobostigon> in the menu in the top right, chrome beta on android.
<MartijnVdS> popey: you liked Akufen, didn't you?
<MartijnVdS> popey: https://soundcloud.com/danielavery/daniel-avery-drone-logic-album
<MartijnVdS> popey: you might like that guy
<MartijnVdS> popey: Sucked into so.cl? :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: nope â»
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I got a "fix committed" on that bug, trying to find the actual commit now (L2TPv3)
<ali1234> i have no idea what you are talking about...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's because I'm confusing you with someone else
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: (Penguin42)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "The one with the numbers" ;)
<diddledan> lol, silly dutch
<SuperEngineer> 12.04 LTS Gwibber is now a total fail - & only a week ago I saw a post stating convergence wasn't letting desktop fall behind. hmmmm  fail
<popey> SuperEngineer: hyperbole aside. bug number?
<SuperEngineer> popey - before I report a bug I try hard to find news on DDG or Google... just finished - no find.
<SuperEngineer> bug about to be reportrd
<SuperEngineer> *reported
<SuperEngineer> p.s hyperbole ~ noun. extravagant exaggeration - which part of either total or fail exagerates the truth?
<popey> well I don't know because you haven't actually given a single detail about the problem
<popey> but escalated it up to "total fail"
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: Gwibber has issues due to the fact that the web works faster than the desktop,  Facebook and twitter both updated their api feeds,  as far as I know though it should of been backported to precise
<diddledan> >.< grandma!
<diddledan> s/of/have/
<diddledan> or s/ of/'ve/
<SuperEngineer> davmor2: I checked all updates from ptrevious week and a bit before - no Gwibber, Gwibber service, or Gwibber lens found... or other likely candidates either
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: I guess it does help that gwibber is dead long live friend either
<diddledan> o_O
<popey> davmor2: 12.04 is a supported release, so it's not dead.
<davmor2> popey: indeed but the upstream for qwibber is now working on friends, so I'm assuming the only person who is likely to touch it would be Ken and he's a bit busy
<popey> that may be true, but that doesn't mean we stop supporting 12.04
<popey> if it's broken, a) file a bug, b) we need to fix it
<popey> I haven't seen a) yet
<davmor2> popey: indeed ;)
<SuperEngineer> popey: no, that's coz I'm here answering questions;)
<SuperEngineer> popey the detail [though this is probably better put in bug] is:
<SuperEngineer> unable to recieve updates from FB in Gwibber.
<SuperEngineer> all components removed - reinstalled after restart - restarted after reinstall - zero access to facebook apart from a "add" [followed by usual authorise process] - then back to no a/c added & no updates... as if Gwibber had regressed to earlier version
<popey> I would recommend you open a terminal and type "ubuntu-bug gwibber-service" and file a bug
<popey> that will capture the version etc
<popey> and explain in the bug in terms someone else will understand.. the steps you have done, and what used to work and what no longer works
<popey> using terms like "total fail" or "doesn't work" are less useful than "click refresh, wait, no updates from facebook appear"
<SuperEngineer> popey: glad you posted that, was about to report against gwibber rather full name
<popey> you can post against either tbh
<SuperEngineer> :)
<SuperEngineer> reporting atm... is info given so far good enough or is more needed?
<popey> Time is a wasting! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/259499751/tikker-the-wrist-watch-that-counts-down-your-life
<popey> Something which explains the problem to a developer..
<SuperEngineer> hokey dokies
<SuperEngineer> popey: [thanks for stepping in - it is important to me as FB is my news stream from my daughter - 160 miles away]
<diddledan> yeah.. so, popey , if I live longer than they said I would do I get reimbursement for anguish caused in the run-up to my supposed death?
<popey> diddledan: this is a great concern for me too!
<popey> although I suspect it will stop being a concern the moment i expire
<popey> SuperEngineer: np
<diddledan> popey: I see they included the obligatory steve jobs quote
<ali1234> any kind of software that integrates with a website is guaranteed to stop working withing 6 months
<ali1234> and 12.04 is now nearly 18 months old
<ali1234> and the rules for SRU basically limit it to bug fixes to bug that can cause data loss or total system crashes
<ali1234> so gwibber being broken in 12.04 is nothing to do with changing focus - it never would have got fixed
<SuperEngineer> popey: bug #1237032
<lubotu3> bug 1237032 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Gwibber not updating from facebook [not "refreshing"]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237032
<popey> SuperEngineer: I'll try and reproduce that in a 12.04 VM
<SuperEngineer> popey ;)
<popey> 250MB updates on my VM
<SuperEngineer> yikes
<bigcalm> Which only takes a few seconds on a 60mb cable connection
<popey> SuperEngineer: in gwibber go to the accounts screen, do you see facebook in the list on the left?
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/gwibber.png
<popey> i see no facebook account after adding it
<SuperEngineer> popey: I used to, after deleting a/c, restarting, re-adding [authourising] it doesn't appear - but does show in FB as authorised
<popey> where?
<SuperEngineer> ..in other words... exactly as per your result
<SuperEngineer> in FB under app settings - Gwibber shows as authorised [you can remove it  - re-authorise in Gwibber & it shows as an auth'd app again]
<SuperEngineer> Gwibber shows no account added
<popey> ok, confirmed the bug..
<SuperEngineer> cheers popey [& for what it's worth http://imagebin.org/273133 shows my a/c's - same as yours on left]
 * SuperEngineer thanks & hugs popey 
<SuperEngineer> p.s. twitter is in list to prove something works!
<popey> right, good, same issue most likely then
<tpe> Why is Solo_in_Casa auto /msg-ing on join?
<Azelphur> no idea, he probably shouldn't be
<tpe> It wasn't a link, but it's auto because it has the exact timestamp of me joining.
<Azelphur> yea, he's doing it to me too
<tpe> That solves that. :)
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<bigcalm> Anything of interest?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-09
<MooDoo> morning all
<shauno> trying to navigate a phone menu in dutch :/  considering it's supposed to be one of the closest related languages to english, I haven't heard a single sound I recognise yet
<StrangeNoises> so, anyone else getting this or know how to fix it?: On Saucy, using Firefox, Youtube audio is disabled and un-turn-onnable (shows speaker+X in the player) but other flash audio works just fine, eg: bbc news/iplayer
<czajkows1i> aloha
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Post Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning James bigcalm
<JamesTait> Hey MooDoo, bigcalm! :)
<SuperMatt> morning all
<Myrtti> czajkowski: ping
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt czajkowski Myrtti
<Myrtti> MooDoo: moin
 * DJones emails JamesTait a Happy world post day card
<SuperMatt> would it be all right if I fell asleep here?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yes
<SuperMatt> awesome
<SuperMatt> nobody tell my boss, ok?
<czajkowski> Myrtti: pong
<JamesTait> DJones, aw, thanks. :)
<Myrtti> I can't make head or tails of DVLA website
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS_> Good Morning!
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> morning morning morning
<SuperMatt> there's a lot of morninging going on today
<Laney> that wednesday feeling
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS and MooDoo and SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> what we need is some crunchies for that friday feeling
<SuperMatt> except I don't want chocolate because I've lost 4lbs this week
<brobostigon> and i cant have milk chocolate due to my diary allergies.
<SuperMatt> I have problems with diaries too
<SuperMatt> people keep stealing them and mocking me for having feelings
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: shall we just put you down now ;)
<SuperMatt> go ahead :(
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: come on dude I was teasing, keep ya chin up :)
<phillipshum> there's always soya
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo how's life treatin ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: thanks, it's going ok at the moment
<czajkowski> ALOHA
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
<davmor2> MooDoo: make the scary woman go away
<davmor2> czajkowski: Now knowing I'm not ticklish what the hell is the point in that ;)
<bigcalm> It's affectionate
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's life?
<czajkowski> better than scowling!
<czajkowski> davmor2: busy and good
<czajkowski> paris and munich this weekend
<davmor2> bigcalm: more like harassment :D
<bigcalm> em: ping
<davmor2> czajkowski: I don't believe you :P  you can't be in those two places at the same time
<czajkowski> back for a week then off to italy,
<czajkowski> then ireland for a week and NYC, Toronto to see my godson then I'm back to collect Bash :)
<bigcalm> Thought you had Bash already
<bigcalm> He looks cute
<MooDoo> davmor2: it can't be czajkowski you're talking about, she's wonderful :)
<brobostigon> any suggestions for a combined imap/smtp server ?
<bigcalm> gmail
 * bigcalm hides
<davmor2> brobostigon: postfix
<brobostigon> davmor2: i am just researching that one.
<davmor2> brobostigon: look at the server guide it lists a couple
<davmor2> brobostigon: tell you how to install them and gives you a whole bunch of links to more docs
<brobostigon> thank you davmor2
<MooDoo> brobostigon: what about simbra isn't that one too?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: thats a new one to me.
<MooDoo> http://www.zimbra.com/
<davmor2> brobostigon: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/email-services.html dovecot is the bit that makes the imap retrieval easy
<davmor2> MooDoo: I was gonna say Zimbra :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: i just :)
<brobostigon> let me look.
<mgdm> I use Postfix for SMTP and Dovecot for IMAP, which is pretty easy to set up on Ubuntu
<mgdm> Zimbra is a bit... heavier :-)
<davmor2> zimbra is basically an outlook replacement isn't it
<MooDoo> it's a complete solution not just a client.
<bigcalm> A complete server iirc
<bigcalm> In the same vein as mythbuntu
<davmor2> mgdm: when you say a bit heavier, is that like comparing a mouse and an elephant and saying the elephant is a bit heavier?
<mgdm> davmor2: yeah, except the elephant grew up on Jupiter, so it's a lot more dense than it would be if it came from Earth...
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah I meant it was all the services and a web frontend that replicates what you get in outlook there is a client for it too I think so you can have the full mock outlook experience :)
<brobostigon> citadel seems packaged and in the repos, unlike zimbra.
<awilkins> I can mock Outlook without installing a server
<awilkins> But the sad part is that it's still better than Thunderbird
<davmor2> awilkins: I preferred evolution but everyone else seemed to have issues with it :(
<awilkins> You'd think that Thunderbird + GMail would be a killer combo
<awilkins> But it still doesn't work properly
<awilkins> Things like searching for mail and you get double hits for everything
<BigRedS> I've just switched to Tbird last week
<BigRedS> the search in general is a bit odd, just for normal imap accounts
<davmor2> I still hate that fact that if I want to have the same setup on more than one machine I have to copy a folder of multiple GB over instead of the setting of a few hundred MB  and then to top it off it ignores the fact that you have a folder full of email and proceeds to down load them all again grrrrrrr
<BigRedS> there is no imap client that does imap properly
<BigRedS> imap isn't designed for downloading entire mailboxes, it's supposed to cache recent mail
<davmor2> BigRedS: evolution handled it better Not ideally but certainly better
<BigRedS> Did it still insist on pretending to be a pop client and download your entire mailbox?
<BigRedS> Actually, webmail clients get IMAP right
<BigRedS> Hah, though with my new graphical mail client I can't get used to that highlighted envelope meaning "Unread mail or unread jabber"
<BigRedS> given the huge width of that bar (my entire screen) it seems a bit daft to use one icon for both...
<davmor2> BigRedS: Claws is ugly but handles mail pretty well, it's search is kinda sucky but no worse than others.  Also it's much much lighter
<BigRedS> davmor2: it still downloads all the mail doesn't it?
<BigRedS> I used claws for a while before mutt; the choice seemed to be between claws being a bit crashy and really clunky, and thunderbird being a memory hog
<davmor2> BigRedS: I can't remember to be honest.  I know it meant I had a usable netbook.  Rather than 2 days of waiting on thunderbird to download all of my mail
<davmor2> popey: you need to play more jamestown, I'd forgotten what a fun game it was :D
<popey> heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: you too ^
<bigcalm> Humm?
<davmor2> bigcalm: honestly it's an old style scrolling kill fest, just lets you let off steam and puts a smile on your face :)
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Ah, a pay for game
<MooDoo> davmor2: daley thompsons decathalon also does that, keyboard bashing :)
<bigcalm> Will wait for it to appear in a humble bundle
<bigcalm> Or steam
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought it was in a bundle
<davmor2> bigcalm: have a look
<bigcalm> davmor2: I guess not a bundle I bought
<davmor2> bigcalm: that was why I pointed you at it :)
<bigcalm> Oh, tell a lie
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think it was a bonus game
<bigcalm> I do have it :D
<bigcalm> I always pay above the average and so get the bonus games
<bigcalm> Does humble bundle no longer link to the USC?
<davmor2> bigcalm: that last one didn't as they gave us no notice on it
<bigcalm> I also don't see a link to getting steam keys
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> Ah, I was looking in the wrong place
<bigcalm> Such links are via the bundle pages rather than the overall library
<bigcalm> I see that Jamestown is not available via Steam for Linux
<mgdm> What about Jaynestown?
<bigcalm> davmor2: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/jamestown_usc_terms.png
<davmor2> bigcalm: have you thought about a job in qa :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: jog on :P
<davmor2> haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: no idea why that hasn't shown up it should of
<Myrtti> I wish I could throw money at this problem and it would go away... meh
<davmor2> Myrtti: you can you just need someone insane enough to take on the problem for the money :D
<Myrtti> yeah, I suppose
<Myrtti> I don't have that much personal funds to put on it though, I'd just want someone to take the mantle and I can offer some compensation for this one issue I have, or rather wishlist item
<Myrtti> and yes I've already passive-agressively complained about this on Google+ and Linkedin
<MooDoo> bigcalm: would you really want davmor2 as a boss? ;)
<Myrtti> zoink
<davmor2> MooDoo: I don't wanna be a boss all they do is paperwork and meetings, no time to break stuff then
<MooDoo> davmor2: but you get to delagate stuff, it's fun.
<davmor2> MooDoo: no in QA the fun is in the breaking erm testing I mean testing honest popey
<davmor2> :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: be careful, you'll end up on UUKPC, so davmor2 tell us what you broke this time ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: the answer is always the same.  Life the universe and everything
<MooDoo> 42?
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah I hate that number you can do far to much to it
<AlanBell> bug 181727
<lubotu3> bug 181727 in diogenes (Ubuntu) "package diogenes 0.9.20-2 failed to install/upgrade: subproces post-installation script gaf een foutwaarde 1 terug" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181727
<MooDoo> join #fedora-meeting
<MooDoo> oops ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: traitor ;)
<SuperMatt> why would you do that?
<MooDoo> sorry my bad, ignore it
<MooDoo> davmor2: and :p to you
<SuperMatt> has it been decided if 14.04 will track gnome 3.8 for 14.04 or if it will go to 3.10?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I couldn't resist :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: I know I know :p
<popey> tsk tsk tsk
 * MooDoo hangs head in shame.....must think before I type
 * SuperMatt notes there are a lot of "tiger" suggestions for the 14.04 codename, but I have a feeling that won't be picked, because then it steps on the feet of OSX (despite OSX having named their new version Mavericks"
<SuperMatt> )
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I still want Teenage_mutant_ninja Turtles
<SuperMatt> Turtle would imply slowness
<SuperMatt> although a turtle could also be considered stable...
<ali1234> i am still angry about jackalope not being a real animal
<ali1234> i mean where does it stop
<ali1234> next it will be plants
<SuperMatt> well... there really aren't that many J animals
<ali1234> there are loads
<SuperMatt> yes, you're right
<SuperMatt> I'm being silly :(
<mgdm> jiraffe! :P
<SuperMatt> offt
<SuperMatt> *p
<bigcalm> Jeffrey the corn snake
<popey> Tribbles!
<ali1234> yesterday i learned that turtles are like sharks in that they have been around for ages in a pretty much unchanged state
<ali1234> 22Ma for turtles but 44Ma for shark
<ali1234> s
<Bastian1_> hello
<davmor2> popey: troublesome tribbles
<popey> exactly
<AlanBell> ali1234: horseshoe crabs 450Ma
<brobostigon> am i dim, or is/are postfix/exim almost impossible to setup.
<directhex> brobostigon, depend on how complex your setup is
<brobostigon> it isnt complex at all, imap was a doddle. all i am trying to achieve is to get smtp to have some authentication, really. so only certain people can send email through it.
<mgdm> brobostigon: what are you using for SMTP?
<brobostigon> mgdm: i have tried both exim and postfix, get the same result on both upto now, i am now reading through exim's logs,
<mgdm> brobostigon: Ah. I know how to do it on Postfix.
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok, i will reinstall postfix, then.
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok, fire away, what do i do, please.
<mgdm> brobostigon: one sec
<brobostigon> mgdm: thank you.
<mgdm> brobostigon: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/postfix.html#postfix-smtp-authentication
<mgdm> brobostigon: that's how I did it
<mgdm> (the entire page is worth a read, btu that's the specific bit I did)
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok, i think i have already read and followed that, let me try it again.
<mgdm> brobostigon: if you get stuck let me know, I'll see if I can help
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok, thank you.
<Madam1> hey darren you there?
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok, that section in dovecot.conf it mentions doesnt exist.
<mgdm> brobostigon: can you pastebin what you have just now?
<brobostigon> mgdm: in dovecot.conf ?
<mgdm> brobostigon: aye
<brobostigon> mgdm: http://paste.debian.net/54360/
<mgdm> brobostigon: are there any more conf files in /etc/dovecot?
<brobostigon> ls
<brobostigon> conf.d        dovecot-db.conf.ext        dovecot.pem           private
<brobostigon> dovecot.conf  dovecot-dict-sql.conf.ext  dovecot-sql.conf.ext  README
<mgdm> oh, fun
<brobostigon> why?
<mgdm> erm. it might be in one of the others?
<mgdm> they've split all the files up since I've last looked
<brobostigon> what am i looking for?
<shauno> I have most of those on mine too, they're pure comment.  the only files actually being referenced should be an include conf.d/* in dovecot.conf
<mgdm> any reference to 'auth default'
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok, let me look.
<brobostigon> mgdm: it seems the new server guide describes those file seperations.
<mgdm> brobostigon: ah, cool
<brobostigon> and it still wont work, :(
<popey> directhex: OMG! Cook, Serve, Delicious looks awesome!
<popey> Are those keyboard shortcuts to do stuff?
<JohnRobert> hello
<directhex> popey, i guess
<popey> hello JohnRobert
<davmor2> JohnRobert: hello
<directhex> Mad Catz ship their own Ouya alternative for Â£220. Or about Â£80 more than a PS3 or a 360.
<popey> WHO!?
<popey> oh, mojo
<ali1234> you can get a ps3 for Â£130?
<directhex> i did some averaging. a 360 is Â£130, a ps3 is Â£150
<Laney> YAY new bottle of sriracha
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<brobostigon> evening bigcalm
<bigcalm> What's happening, brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> sitting infront of the tv, with a bottle of red and biscuits.
<bigcalm> Funtastic
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: sitting in front of the bottle of red with a tv with biscuits on top.
<brobostigon> lol
<bigcalm> I have a glass of red and a laptop to keep me sane while Hayley watching Strictly It Takes 2
<brobostigon> thats works, :)
<mgdm> hmmm, glass of red
<mgdm> brobostigon: how'd you get on with postfix?
<brobostigon> mgdm: still wont work, no errors or anything, just cant get any smtp capable client to connect to it, without error.
<brobostigon> no errors server side.
<mgdm> brobostigon: oh :(
<brobostigon> so i dont really know how to procede.
<mgdm> hmm.
<brobostigon> anything i can pastebin or such, that might help?
<mgdm> well, I'm not at work any more, so I'm less distracted :-)
<mgdm> try /etc/postfix/main.cf for starters?
<brobostigon> one second,
<brobostigon> mgdm: http://paste.debian.net/54540/
<mgdm> brobostigon: can you do 'netstat -plnt' and pastebin that too?
<brobostigon> mgdm: one minute.
<brobostigon> can i pipe that output into pastebinit?
<mgdm> worth a shot, yes - actually, run it under sudo
<brobostigon> netstat -plnt > pastebinit ?
<mgdm> sudo netstat -plnt | pastebinit
<mgdm> (that won't run pastebinit under sudo)
<brobostigon> ok, one second.
<brobostigon> sudo su ?
<brobostigon> then run it.
<mgdm> no, just paste what i wrote
<mgdm> it'll work
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> http://paste.debian.net/54543/
<mgdm> right, so the master process is running, and listening on 0.0.0.0:25 - can you connect to it with telnet? (telnet your.host.name 25) - you should get some text
<brobostigon> yes, that connects.
<mgdm> odd
<brobostigon> agreed, from what i read, it should work.
<mgdm> I'm afraid I'm stuck, without access to the machine
<brobostigon> any ideas what i can check myself?
<mgdm> there's a handy tool called 'swaks'
<mgdm> maybe see if it's apt-gettable
<brobostigon> yes, i already installed that.
<mgdm> does it work?
<brobostigon> not done any tests using that yet.
<mgdm> worth a bash
<brobostigon> ok, let me try.
<brobostigon> ok, an email sent, using swaks to my gmail worked.
<brobostigon> that worked aswell, sending an email to postfix using swaks from my other vps.
<mgdm> ah haÂ±
<brobostigon> woop, working, yay.
<mgdm> brobostigon: woo
<brobostigon> mgdm: i found out, the mailbox dovecot was refferring to was wrong, ie changed to /var/mail/%u  , i still havent got smtp authentication to work.
<mgdm> hmmm.
<mgdm> what happens when you try...?
<brobostigon> let me try, with which security etc client side?
<brobostigon> i get the followinf error, "(megative smtp reply: 454 4.7.0 tls not available due to local problem)"
<diddledan> brobostigon: that means the ssl isn't configured right - maybe it can't read (permissions) the certificate or key
<brobostigon> diddledan: ok, how do i fix it? please.
<diddledan> o_o
<bigcalm> Self signed cert?
<bigcalm> Maybe it doesn't like it?
<mgdm> nah, self-signed works fine
<diddledan> brobostigon: you need to check the permissions on /etc/ssl/certs/smtpd.crt and /etc/ssl/private/smtpd.key
<brobostigon> diddledan: which permission do they need to be?
<diddledan> I don't recall whether postfix starts the ssl stuff under root account, see, so it may need to be owned by postfix
<mgdm> I think it does use root, because my certs are shared by dovecot and postfix
<brobostigon> ok, so i just change them to be owned by root ?
<diddledan> brobostigon: what are the permissions on the smtpd.key file?
<brobostigon> one moment.
<diddledan> afaict they need to be either 400 or 600
<diddledan> or at a pinch 440 or 640
<diddledan> there should be an error message suggesting what the problem is related to in /var/log/something_maybe_mail.log?
<brobostigon> thats just where i am searching through.
<diddledan> if not in there, then mail.err
<Azelphur> What's the most open and cross platform / easily available compression method?
<Azelphur> probably zip?
<mgdm> open? doubt it
<Azelphur> isn't zip open?
<mgdm> tar/gzip would take the cake there, I guess
<popey> gzip
<mgdm> I didn't think so
<diddledan> there is no open and cross platform
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> lies
<mgdm> I thought it had been reverse-engineered
<popey> tar and gzip exist in basically everything
<diddledan> windows can't do gzip out of the box
<popey> he didnt say OOTB
<Azelphur> yea, doesn't need to be OOTB
<popey> self extracting lharc!
<diddledan> in that case then, yes gzip potentially with tar
<popey> :D
<popey> or arj!
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> those are esoteric
 * popey remembers a 3.5" floppy disk he had 20 years ago with every compression tool on
<Azelphur> the goal being that I'd basically ship the thing that did the unzipping
<Azelphur> so, it doesn't matter, so long as I can bundle it with my thing
<popey> i was not being serious diddledan â»
<popey> SAP tried to make a cross platform compression tool
<popey> well, they kinda succeeded
<popey> because there wasn't one at the time
<popey> .CAR files.. later .SAR files
<popey> and they made their own tool, sapcar.
<mgdm> i suppose it's indicative that people haven't heard of them :-)
<diddledan> microsoft .cab files ftw! :-p
<popey> only used by SAP for distributing their own patches (which are huge, so need compression)
<popey> and we used to have to get them from an ftp server in germany
<diddledan> had to be germany
<popey> 147.204.2.5 â»
<diddledan> you remember that?!
<popey> an IP that sticks in my mind
<popey> ya
<popey> same IP was in use for years
<mgdm> I still remember Madasafish's DNS servers from my very first job, as dialup tech support
<diddledan> I have enough trouble remembering current IPs
<mgdm> 212.38.173.11 and 212.38.173.12
<Azelphur> diddledan: pfft
<Azelphur> diddledan: I'm a diagnosed Aspy, I have numeric sequences that are like a hundred digit long I can recall.
<diddledan> Azelphur: that could be quite handy
<Azelphur> I do it sometimes to freak people out
<mgdm> thing is, I can't remember the production web server IPs that I deal with every day of the week for the last 3.5yrs
<Azelphur> diddledan: *shrug* I haven't found a use beyond party trick
<diddledan> Azelphur: and party tricks aren't handy? :-p
<Azelphur> well, true :)
<Azelphur> I just write it down on something (my phone or something) hand the phone away, and then recite the number that's on the screen, without looking at it
<diddledan> what you want is to memorise a whole party's credit card numbers :-p
<Azelphur> freaks people out :D
<popey> you need to go to more parties
<popey> clearly
<Azelphur> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-10
 * ball pokes around in the Ubuntu Software Centre for educational games.
<popey> Morning ratfans.
<arsen_> good morning.
<MooDoo> popey: morning errol ;)
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
<MooDoo> dwatkins: morning
<jussi> popey: nice link about HP, thanks!
<jussi> (for everyone else: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57606827-75/hp-no-longer-playing-by-microsoft-intel-rules-exec-says/ )
<dwatkins> can't the BBC website be opened outside the UK?
<dwatkins> I only ask because I was about to post the link to Facebook...
<dwatkins> s/Facebook/Google Plus/
<popey> dwatkins: depends
<jussi> yes, it can
<jussi> FINALLY, finally someone did what we have all be waiting for - made a laptop that charges via micro USB
<popey> pfft
<Myrtti> anyone want to get rid of their used Nexus4?
<popey> worst idea ever
<popey> micro USB is the dumbest connector on earth
<Myrtti> (looking for a 'new' phone for my sister)
<jussi> meh, mines not worth much anymore since the screen got broke
<Myrtti> jussi: call up SCF Huolto and ask how much it would be to replace
<jussi> popey: it still is the one used for my phone, so having one charger between the 2 is wonderful
<jussi> Myrtti: I hope its nothing like what it will cost to get the note 2 one done (â¬150 :/ )
<Myrtti> jussi: ... that's still cheaper than buying Nexus 4 from verkkokauppa.com
<Myrtti> I know, because work just did that, for me, because their purchasing policy.
<jussi> Myrtti: Im more off the mind to just keep using it - its only the lower part of the glass, so cosmetics
<jussi> but, your are right, of course
<Myrtti> and I'll probably talk about this purchasing policy idiocy until the day I die
<Myrtti> because it is idiotic.
<Myrtti> I know why it exists, but it's still idiotic.
<dwatkins> Myrtti: they got you a note 2?
<Myrtti> no, Nexus4
<dwatkins> What's wrong with the Nexus 4?
<Myrtti> the price?
<Myrtti> it's 369 now, it was 399 last week
<Myrtti> http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/20915/dmrxt/LG-Google-Nexus-4-Android-puhelin-8-GB-musta
 * kecskebak is waiting to see if uupc episode 30 was in a vault in Ethiopia
 * MooDoo was confused watching the live stream last night as I caught it halfway through, they must have been playing pre recorded stuff while I was watching them live lol
<diplo> Morning all
<arsen> as anyone used a chromebook? :o
<arsen> or has anyone stuck ubuntu on one?:D
<popey> MooDoo: yeah, we record interviews an hour ahead and slot them in while we have tea and cake
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<jussi> arsen: Ive used one, not stuck ubuntu on it. works ok.
<arsen> i just like the pricepoint and the design of the pixel one :)
<arsen> sell my useless ipad and get one :o
<jussi> :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Porridge Day! :-D
<popey> I had porridge for brekkie!
<SuperMatt> oh my, everything is all too happy this morning
<jussi> oooh, so did I!
<JamesTait> I wish I had.
<JamesTait> The temperature seems to have dropped a few degrees since Monday.
<JamesTait> Lovely and sunny and really cold.
<SuperMatt> I hope it was high to begin with, otherwise you're about to die
<SuperMatt> oh, I thought you meant your temperature
<Myrtti> I still seem to be ok with poached eggs and tomato on toast for brekkie
<Myrtti> I'm a bit surprised I'm still not bored of it
<popey> i never usually have porridge but we got some by accident
<phillipshum> by accident?
<popey> ya
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> note to self: don't change the ssh port and restart the daemon without making sure you have an active login in case it fails to start
<SuperMatt> oooooops
<dwatkins> no biggie, I just can't talk to my machine at home until I get back - I can still check it's up via HTTP
<SuperMatt> true
<SuperMatt> I once restarted the a firewall and disconnected before I checked it had all come back up OK
<SuperMatt> that was a bad idea
<dwatkins> eek
<SuperMatt> fortunately it was next door in the server room
<SuperMatt> and it was 5.30, so no one in the office noticd
<dwatkins> thankfully my irc/irssi session runs on a different machine which I don't have root access to
<ali1234> apparently ubuntu kernel developers can't fix bugs unless you tell them exactly which commit causes the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1021069/comments/17
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1021069 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Dell Inspiron Mini 1012] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 00000020; EIP is at sysfs_do_create_link+0x23/0x1d0" [Medium,Incomplete]
<brobostigon> oh yes, smtp authorisation fixed, woop.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: well done
 * brobostigon bows :D
<brobostigon> next challange, :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> It was when I started work
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: still is morning and I've started work now
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'll let you off
<brobostigon> it is possible, inside dovecot to allow a single user to have more than one imap client connected ?
<bigcalm> I keep updating Ingree on my phone and I keep forgetting to play it
<popey> i haven't played that for months
<brobostigon> last i played ingress was on monday, still have 10 odd invites.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: then use them to invite odd people :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i have asked people plenty of times, little to no interest.
<popey> there are massive ingress communities on G+
<popey> one near me goes out hacking all the time
<MooDoo> ingress?
<popey> the game
<MooDoo> never heard of it
<popey> i hear mozilla are doing a similar location based game
<popey> to improve their wifi access point database
<brobostigon> alternate motives.
<popey> que?
<brobostigon> the motive isnt just to create a cool game, but to improve said database aswell, hence alternate motives.
<popey> same as google
<popey> google just aren't open about it
<brobostigon> how can it do that, when wifi is turned off, while running said game?
<popey> it doesn't have to be off
<brobostigon> just put in scan mode, fair point.
<ali1234> surely the point of ingress is to get people used to the idea of leaving the GPS etc on all the time?
<MooDoo> people aren't going to do that i'm guessing
<ali1234> why?
<popey> they do
<popey> people leave gps on all the time for lots of things
<MooDoo> must be just me then
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/10/nhs_drops_oracle_for_riak/
<MooDoo> that's good news TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's quite an impressive deal...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Encouraging.
<MooDoo> it's a start :)
<MooDoo> seems like ms is in decline in this country as a lot of people are discovering the joys of oopen source
<ali1234> ms is a derailed train at this point
<directhex> choo choo
<MooDoo> ali1234: unless they do something radical and soon they might have issues lol
<ali1234> directhex: every time you say that i think of the guy from intolerable cruelty
<TheOpenSourcerer> They've been in terminal decline for sometime. It's going to be a slow and painful death. lol
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: unless they do something radical to stop it...the only thing I can think of would be to give away their os for free ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't think they can do anything really - apart from becoming a completely different company that is.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They'll keep milking the cow(s) for many years yet but I don't see much chance of a turnaround.
<ali1234> momentum is the thing keeping the going. it also prevents them from changing direction
<MooDoo> they could just cut the cost of windows in half when windows 8.1 is released but that defeats the object of windows 8 lol
<MooDoo> cost of windows 7 i meant
<JamesTait> I thought they were reinventing themselves as a device and services company?
<popey> Giving away the family silver doesn't make a lot of sense.
<popey> Nobody wants it for one thing.
<popey> See: Symbian.
<ali1234> they never game away symbian
<ali1234> *gave
<ali1234> the open source release wasn't actually practically useful to anyone
<JamesTait> popey, do you happen to know where http://geoip.ubuntu.com/lookup gets its data from? I'd like to submit a correction for my own IP range.
<popey> JamesTait: nope
<JamesTait> Being an "online service" you'd think that'd come under my remit, but I have no idea. :-/
<jussi> JamesTait: so find out.... bwahhahahaahha :P
 * jussi giggles manically
<JamesTait> jussi, good idea! :-P
<Myrtti> the atmosphere of love and friendship is palpable
<popey> i did wonder why JamesTait asked me â»
<Myrtti> because you know - if not everything - everyone
<JamesTait> popey, you brought it to my attention a couple of weeks ago - I had no idea it even existed before that. ;)
<popey> â»
<diddledan> popey: aren't you God?
<popey> I don't exist!?
<diddledan> popey: after mark, aren't you the "face" of Ubuntu? :-p
<popey> Nope.
<diddledan> hehe
<MooDoo> popey: you're not the messaih you're a very naughty boy
<popey> thats jono's job
<Myrtti> pft.
<davmor2> JamesTait: it comes from the T'interwebz
<JamesTait> davmor2, but where on t'interwebz?
<davmor2> JamesTait: to the left of where you're looking.......no further left, further, keep going......
 * JamesTait hears his neck crunch as his head rotates through 360 degrees.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: don't turn your head
<JamesTait> MooDoo, but then I just get dizzy.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: you're getting old ;)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, cold? You're not wrong! ;)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: blind as well then ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: JamesTait *is* old! (comparitively) - its the truth, I met him at UDS! :P :P
<jussi> I think he is actually perhaps younger than me...  :P
<MooDoo> jussi: what you're 50?
<MooDoo> ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: awwwwwwwww
<JamesTait> jussi, blimey, that was... 2-and-a-half years ago?
 * jussi hugs JamesTait
<jussi> JamesTait: I cant remember which one it was *erk*
<MooDoo> well you can still meet at uds, albeit virtually
<JamesTait> jussi, you don't expect *me* to remember *that* far back, surely? :-P
<jussi> pffft
<jussi> JamesTait: you offered to work on bots.... iirc
<JamesTait> jussi, and now you get to interact with the fruit of that labour. ;)
<jussi> It was one of the US ones - perhaps orlando?
 * diddledan petpet lubotu3 
<jussi> JamesTait: waiiiitt.... you are a bot? I knew it!!! :P
<JamesTait> jussi, I've only been to one UDS, in Budapest. ;)
<jussi> JamesTait: then it was budapest... they all muddle into one for me...
<JamesTait> I didn't even make it to any of the virtual ones so far.
<JamesTait> *So far*
<MooDoo> JamesTait: don't think i've been to any both in RL or virtual they were always in the states lol
<MooDoo> roll on the LRL reunion hope that's in the uk lol
<JamesTait> I make it lunch time.
<JamesTait> Time for some nice, hot pie.
<bigcalm> I know this isn't Ubuntu itself, but anybody know how one would get a more recent version of OpenSSL installed on a Debian6 server?
<Laney> MMM PIE
<mgdm> bigcalm: that sounds like a world of pain
<bigcalm> mgdm: nice eh?
<mgdm> bigcalm: you'd have to recompile OpenSSL and then all the things that link to it in order to get the new version
<Laney> more recent than what?
<Laney> stable has 1.0.1e which is the newest
<mgdm> bigcalm: don't suppose you can just clone the production env?
<bigcalm> Laney: Debian 6 uses OpenSSL 0.9.8o, Ubuntu 12.04 uses 1.0.1
<Laney> oh 6
<bigcalm> mgdm: I have cloned the production server. But I've been asked to try upgrading OpenSSL before using the new server
<brobostigon> openssl 1.0.1e-3 in debian testing here.
<Laney> well, there is a soname change from oldstable to stable
<bigcalm> How would one go about using a new package on an old system? :)
<Laney> so it is true that you would have to rebuild things, and if there are api changes then port to them
<Laney> take stable package, see if it builds on oldstable
<bigcalm> Actually build it rather than there being a .deb I could use?
<Laney> I suppose somebody might have done it already
<brobostigon> isnt there a backports repo ?
<Laney> that only works if it has been backported
<Laney> which openssl has not
<brobostigon> ah, ok.
<Laney> Generally you should be trying to move off oldstable though :-)
<Laney> (he says IRCing from an oldstable server)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I am more than happy to ditch the current test server and clone the production server
<bigcalm> The cloud being useful for a change
<BigRedS> that is the 'better' way to make a test server
<ali1234> bigcalm: get the deb source (.dsc, .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz), unpack it with dpkg-source -x, build it with fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage inside the unpacked directory
<BigRedS> periodically reimport all the weirdities from production
<bigcalm> The test server should mirror the production server anyway. It just happens to not have been set-up that way
<ali1234> oh and "apt-get build-dep openssl"
<bigcalm> ali1234: ta, look have a look
<ali1234> it probably won't work :(
<bigcalm> Ah :)
<ali1234> but you never know
<bigcalm> The less wasted time the better, but one doesn't know if time is wasted until later :D
<bigcalm> Great - write a long message to my boss on Skype and he's not there!
<bigcalm> Cat trod on my keyboard and made a terminal full screen
<bigcalm> I have no idea how to get out of full screen mode
<bigcalm> Ah, right click and leave fullscreen
<bigcalm> Silly kitty
<DJones> Man: /lastlog MooDoo
<MooDoo> ?
<DJones> MooDoo: Are you around for a pm?
<MooDoo> DJones: am I in trouble?
<DJones> Nah, just something I hope you can help with
<MooDoo> DJones: yeah course then :D
 * diplo has been installing XP on an old Shuttle PC.. oh my I had forgotten how bad/long it is/was to do that!
<MooDoo> diplo: you're loving it
<diplo> I started yesterday about 2pm, admittedly I've not been on top of doing it fully but so far I reckon 5/6+ hours of updates and I don't know how many reboots and finding a few drivers, and IE not loading a page because of being IE6 :P ( this was a MS site )
<diplo> It's reminding not to do it again for sure!Â¬
<shauno> heh, I think last time I tried, windowsupdate did that now (complains you're using IE6)
<Laney> oh noes
<Laney> my chair is now a sinker
 * Laney types with his arms above his head
<popey> i need to fix my chair
<popey> should take it to the hackspace
<Myrtti> I'm wondering how colossaly stupid I'd be if I'd pay for the Guardian Android subscription...
<bigcalm> popey: the Aeron you bought 2nd hand?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Poop
<bigcalm> Didn't have that long
<bigcalm> What's wrong with it?
<popey> it broke within a few weeks
<popey> it doesn't lock
<bigcalm> Yikes
<popey> so it falls back
<bigcalm> Yes, I can see that being a problem
<bigcalm> Mine sometimes slips out of being locked. But that's quite rare
<bigcalm> gitg is great for looking at git repos on my system. Anybody know if it can compare branches? Or if not, what could let me do so?
<SuperMatt> when googling aida lovelace, try to remember her name is aida, not linda
<SuperMatt> they're very difference people
<SuperMatt> *ada
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: hah, nice
<diplo> heh, had to google them both didn't I :)
<SuperMatt> hehehe
 * bigcalm doesn't say which he had to google
<diddledan> wasn't linda lovelace in "deep throat"?
<bigcalm> !offtopic
<lubotu3> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<bigcalm> Or, maybe
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<diplo> bah!
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> !porn
<bigcalm> Aww
<diplo> I'd say this channel is 95% off topic anyhoo!
<bigcalm> <lubotu3> Sorry, I don't know anything about 'porn'
<diplo> hah
<bigcalm> lubotu3 hasn't lived
<diddledan> this channel isn't the main support channel so I don't see that it needs to remain on a specific topic
<diddledan> afiac it's a social room for folk who like ubuntu and want to talk with likeminded individuals in and around uk time
<bigcalm> Sure, but certain topics aren't really meant for all ages :)
<diddledan> I didn't mention what "deep throat" was
<AlanBell> its fine, but lets focus more on the Ada Lovelace side of things :)
<diddledan> AlanBell: she had nice cogs
<AlanBell> which is next tuesday I think
<SuperMatt> the topic came about because I was naming a server "lovelace"
<SuperMatt> so it was on point :P
<diddledan> thankyou! :-p
<AlanBell> nah, Babbage was the hardware engineer
<diplo> Stopped naming servers with names like that now adays, mine are now rack1/location/use etc in abbreviated form
<diplo> Much easier than having to think up a set of names
<bigcalm> Indeed
<diplo> We used to have screamer, howler and a few other names like that :P
<bigcalm> Except when you have a "test" server, find out you need a new test server but the name has been taken and end up with "new-test"
<Myrtti> ladybacon
<shauno> anyone tried using a HF upconverter with one of these sdr dongles?  having a difficult (/expensive) time trying to find one that's actually worth using
<SuperMatt> diplo: we picked quite a good theme: scientists and mathematicians
<SuperMatt> got quite a lot to chose from
<diddledan> my sister is done forking new processes
<diddledan> I'm now an uncle to 1day-old chloe
<Myrtti> not a zero-day?
<diddledan> Myrtti: I missed the action
<diddledan> tesco just emailed me to tell me about their hudl tablet
<diddledan> so-called because it's teeny and everyone has to huddle around it to see the screen?
<popey> wakka wakka wakka
<popey> he's here all week
<diddledan> :-D
<bigcalm> I don't need a new tablet, I have my Xoom. Hayley uses it as well, but complains about it's speed at times. Do I buy her a hudl or will she prefer the 10" slow thing?
<bigcalm> *ponder ponder*
<diddledan> btw, lovelace day is tuesday
<diddledan> </delay>
<bigcalm> How does one reset the root password in mysql? Can it be done with a package reconfigure?
<mgdm> bigcalm: you need to start it up with --skip-grants
<mgdm> or --skip-grant-tables, I forget which
<bigcalm> mgdm: ta, will try those
<ali1234> those things were really rubbish
<mgdm> which things?
<ali1234> shuttle mini PCs
<bigcalm> Apache weirdness when using a2ensite: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6219064/
<ali1234> diplo^
<ali1234> i'm surprised he found one that still works
<mgdm> never had a shuttle, had similar things though, they worked fine
<daftykins> i went through a fair Shuttle PC fad at the time :D
<mgdm> forget the manufacturer now though
<daftykins> back in Athlon XP time
<ali1234> bigcalm: sites-available and sites-enabled are a bunch of symlinks
<bigcalm> ali1234: indeed they are, but it doesn't explain why a2ensite is throwing that error
<ali1234> bigcalm: your problem could be caused if the symlink and the target file name aren't the same
<ali1234> so check what it actually links to
<bigcalm> ali1234: there are currently no symlinks. That's what a2ensite does
<bigcalm> The config files exist in sites-available
<ali1234> wut
<bigcalm> Aha, the a2ensite list was dropping the .conf from the file
<bigcalm> Added it back and the command works
<ali1234> so the bash completion is buggy?
<bigcalm> If that's what a2ensite uses, then yes
<ali1234> it's what generates the tab list
<bigcalm> Odd that it drops the .conf
<ali1234> if you run a2ensite with no argument it asks you to type one interactively
<ali1234> and drops the .conf
<ali1234> this looks like a bug anyway
<ali1234> http://lists.debian.org/debian-apache/2013/06/msg00048.html
<bigcalm> That's the inverse
<bigcalm> Hehe
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> debian bug 711494
<lubotu3> Debian bug 711494 in apache2 "a2ensite bash completion doesn't strip off .conf file ending" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/711494
<bigcalm> This is on the ubuntu server - cloned the production server
<ali1234> maybe it got fixed twice in different places somehow
<bigcalm> If that makes any difference to bug numbers
<ali1234> ie worked around in ubuntu, then debian fixed it
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Gotcha
<BigRedS> I don't think I ever saw that in DEbian
<BigRedS> Oh, that was in sid
<daftykins> what do people running intel ivybridge systems with 13.04 need to do to fix their corrupted graphics? situations with horizontal lines all over the image that come and go.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have that on haswell. Reboot fixes it for a while for me :(
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> this guy says it comes and goes on a samsung 5 series laptop
<MartijnVdS> oh, I have similar issues on ATi as well
<ali1234> buy an nvidia card
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and get to repair a broken machine every other kernel upgrade? no thanks
<ali1234> since when does ubuntu ever upgrade the kernel in-release?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: security
<MartijnVdS> i.e. all the time
<ali1234> backporting a security fix != upgrade
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it does sometimes lead to new ABI versions, which require recompiles
<MartijnVdS> which break
<ali1234> except that it doesn't - that has never happened in 5 years
<daftykins> does that intel open source site provide a better driver for those situations, or no?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: better than the built-in ubuntu ones?
<MartijnVdS> nah
<daftykins> ah fair enough
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I tend to run the unstable release, which requires a lot more upgrading
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and fresh kernels, etc.
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> you run +1, you get to fix it every week
<daftykins> that's kind of a large caveat then :D
<ali1234> nobody should be running +1
<MartijnVdS> but then nobody would find bugs
<ali1234> they should be demanding that ubuntu actually supports releases
<ali1234> people find bugs in the release all the time
<ali1234> but it turns out "support" doesn't really mean anything
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: unless you pay
<ali1234>  rather doubt even that makes a difference
<MartijnVdS> also, security fixes
<ali1234> you just get your own personal excuse-maker
<MartijnVdS> cynical much? :)
<ali1234> every day
<daftykins> yeah it took several years to stop Guernsey and Jersey being set to use US keyboards in ubiquity
<daftykins> i mean seriously
<MartijnVdS> it took less than a week for L2TPv3 to be enabled in the saucy kernel
<MartijnVdS> (thanks apw ;))
<directhex> 70 games on sale on steam right now, 12 of them for linux
<ikonia> directhex: the other day you commented that there is thunderbolt support on linux, any chance you've got a solid reference on that, support levels, kernel version etc, I can't see anything on 3.10.X kernel in the docs
<directhex> mmm, i was going by a blog post a while back by greg k-h
<ikonia> not to worry, just trying to get something "factual" as I see rumour and suggestions, but then I don't see anything actually in the kernel or the intel or thunderbolttechnology.net site
<popey> directhex: anything worth having?
<daftykins> popey: GTA Online with friends is great fun. we were all in choppers last night when i set the task of a race to parachute down to the end of 'Santa Monica pier' from max altitude
<daftykins> :>
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> I do enjoy watching Hat Films play
<aquarius> chrisccoulson, yo
<chrisccoulson> aquarius, hi :)
<aquarius> chrisccoulson, I lied, you were online, you're just not in any channels that I'm in ;)
<chrisccoulson> ah, which channels are you in? i'm in quite a few ;)
<aquarius> I checked #ubuntu-touch at least :)
<chrisccoulson> oh, i'm not in there
<chrisccoulson> lol
<aquarius> anyway, wanna hear a bunch of random things that I would like web stuff (either in-browser or in a native app with a browser widget) to have? :)
<chrisccoulson> i probably should be :)
<chrisccoulson> sure :)
<aquarius> you may say: I do not want to hear your list, my own list is quite large enough, thank you very much
<aquarius> things I would like that I do not currently have, in no particular order. (1) an evergreen browser and browser widget. (Which Oxide will be. Having this one thing means everything else on this list is gravy. :)) (2) addJavaScriptObject from QML into the browser widget. (3) QML JavaScript being able to attach to, and fire, DOM events inside the browser widget as though it were being done by JS inside the widget. (4)
<aquarius> ability to flip Chromium config switches from QML in a documented way. (Qt.webkit.experimental is not a documented way ;)) (5) ability to let in-widget code violate the same origin policy by flipping a QML switch. (Might be a special case of 4.) (6) WebRTC.
<aquarius> I want a bunch of other stuff too, but the other stuff is mainly things I want the *browser* to be able to do, like "long-press a link and add it as a bookmark", which is not your project ;)
<chrisccoulson> aquarius, for 2 and 3, we have user script support and a message passing API which we could build around to provide this type of functionality
<aquarius> mm. not sure about message passing api.
<aquarius> on the grounds that I can already bodge together qml-talks-to-in-browser-javascript by round-tripping json messages through document.title, etc
<chrisccoulson> aquarius, essentially it would be based around a message passing API under the hood anyway, as that's the way the IPC works :)
<aquarius> round-tripping messages through OxideObject.ChrisCoulsonMessagePasser is not a lot better ;)
<aquarius> what I want is a lower-level thing: actually expose QML objects to JS and the reverse, by tying together the underlying JS engines rather than treating the Oxide widget as a magic black box with a tiny letterbox in it for messages.
<aquarius> but perhaps it doesn't work like that :)
<aquarius> I mean, if I embed CEF in an app of mine, I don't handle bookmarks by posting little messages back and forth, I don't think; there's a tighter integration than that.
<aquarius> but perhaps I'm misunderstanding and that is in fact exactly how it works :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that might be fairly difficult, whatever we do, there's an element of passing messages inbetween, as the 2 sides are in different processes
<aquarius> I'd just like to be able to have QML pass messages to in-widget JS without doing, say, Oxide.executeScript("globalMessageReceiverFunction(" + JSON.stringify(params) + ")")
<aquarius> which is horrid.
<aquarius> I can wrap that up in a nice API at the top level, but it's a bodge and it ought to be nicer, in my opinion ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll have a think about that
<aquarius> being able to attach to, and fire, DOM events would be ultrafab
<aquarius> (attach to and fire them from QML, I mean)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that would be pretty neat
<aquarius> so in QML I can do Oxide.DOM.document.querySelector('#whatever').addEventListener(qmlroot.handlerFunction)
<aquarius> sortafing. :)
<aquarius> and in widget JS I can just fire a custom event with custom data attached to it, and QML listens to that event.
<aquarius> way nice. :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that would be cool
<chrisccoulson> remember though that API's on the embedder side need to be asynchronous
<aquarius> that's why I think that running communication into and out of the widget should be via dom events.
<chrisccoulson> it's certainly an interesting idea
<aquarius> then to communicate out I just do: talkToQML = document.initEvent("embedderListener"); talkToQML.fire(custom_data)
<aquarius> and to communicate *in*, I just do Oxide.DOM.document.embedderReceiver.fire(custom_data)
<aquarius> or something
<aquarius> <waves hands>
<aquarius> but you see what I mean.
<chrisccoulson> yeah :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to create a mailing list for this btw
<chrisccoulson> when i figure out who to poke about it
<aquarius> it's all async, it's all event-driven, and as a free bonus I can have QML attach directly to, say, the touchstart event on some random DOM element, rather than having to listen in widget JS and then send a message out to QML and have QML listen for that message and then do the work.
<aquarius> makes it possible to pretty much define your UI in HTML but have all the logic actually in QML, where it can do Privileged Things.
<aquarius> I imagine it's a octagonal ballache, though, which is why no-one's done it.
<aquarius> but addJavaScriptObject would be nice, at least ;-)
<aquarius> and all the other stuff on the above list :)
<chrisccoulson> i'll certainly keep it in mind. it might be worth opening bugs for specific features :)
<aquarius> I may do, once you've got to the point of having the thing in existence a bit more
<aquarius> also, PPA.
<aquarius> you know it makes sense.
<chrisccoulson> yeah :)
<chrisccoulson> it's certainly quite a beast for people to build on their own, especially with it embedding chromium
<aquarius> which is precisely why I have no intention whatsoever of building it myself
<aquarius> building chromium is hell on legs :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> this is why i have 16GB of RAM
<aquarius> webrtc will need help from the embedder, right? at the very least you have to hook up the media stuff for camera and mic, which is on your list. But having dataconnections would be a lovely thing in an app, yes it would
<aquarius> if you put 16GB of RAM in my laptop, 4GB of it would poke out through the lid ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, webrtc is something that we get almost for free, other than the bits you mentioned (media device selection and device access permissions)
<aquarius> sweet
<aquarius> I can think of about 81 uses for that without even trying
<chrisccoulson> brilliant :)
<aquarius> real time serverless device-to-device communication, here I come
<aquarius> that's close to impossible right now. webrtc is loveliness.
<shauno> hm, G+ sent me an email suggesting that I might know myself, because we have quite a few friends in common
<ball> Let it be known that I play a passable game of Frozen Bubble.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-11
<jmabudabi> ÐÑÑÐ°Ñ
<jmabudabi> ÐÑ ÑÐ¾Ñ Ð±Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð·Ñ Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð²ÑÑÐ°ÑÑÑÑÑ?
<jmabudabi> Ð½ÐµÐ¼Ð°Ñ((
<dwatkins> !ru
<lubotu3> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<dwatkins> ah, they left
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> hiya MooDoo
<jussi> morning peoples...
<popey> Yes!
<JohnRobert> hello
<JohnRobert> anyone here going to zendcon in europe?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<MooDoo> morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<SuperMatt> \o
<MooDoo> now the mornings are over, who's turn is it for the tea?
 * popey is on his 3rd tea
 * TheOpenSourcerer can't stand tea. Coffee #4 for me ;-)
<bigcalm> Getting close to finishing my 1st. Will be on the coffee after that to try and wake up
<TardarSauce> I should probably have some tea before the headache sets in
 * popey goes to mess up the kitchen now the cleaners have left
<bigcalm> Hehe
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * AlanBell puts on another pot of coffee
<SuperMatt> I'll just sit here drinking my dihydrogen monoxide
<popey> Me too! (enfused with tanin and other chemicals)
<popey> my wasp death bottle is filling up
<popey> i should clear it out
<SuperMatt> I daren't ask what that is
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Egg Day! :-D
<AlanBell> egg day ?!?
<AlanBell> yay, it really is http://thinkegg.com/index.php/world-egg-day
<popey> SuperMatt: http://popey.com/webcam/
<SuperMatt> oh, I see
<JamesTait> https://www.internationalegg.com/corporate/eggindustry/section.asp?id=26
<JamesTait> popey, UFO? ;)
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Large-Garden-Honey-Beehive-Killer/dp/B004ZEEPYY
<popey> \o/ hotel booked for oggcamp
<funkyHat> I went to oggcamp once!
<bigcalm> popey: snuggling up with Dave(2)?
<TardarSauce> so yeah, I bought a phone for my sister last night. She seems pleased.
 * bigcalm eyes Dave - imposter
<bigcalm> TardarSauce: a proper Finnish one?
<TardarSauce> pft
<TardarSauce> neva
<bigcalm> Hehe
<TardarSauce> well, maybe some day
<TardarSauce> but today is not that day
<bigcalm> Sadly
<TardarSauce> anyway, a 16GB Nexus 4 from eBay, and some nice things to go with from Amazon
<Dave> bigcalm: nah, we spent ages trying to find a room with 2 beds that wasn't in the middle of nowhere and failed
<TardarSauce> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IImjw536L._SX342_.jpg and http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Looc2E9lL.jpg
<Dave> (I think we mutually non-verbally decided not to share a bed in base2stay, or whatever the place is called.)
<bigcalm> Aww
<Dave> The rooms said they're good for one, cosy for 2. Or something.
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> hey bigcalm MooDoo,  how's life?
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's friday that says it's all
<MooDoo> erm i'm working tomorrow....doh!
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha what that you made to Friday or that it is the end of the week thank god :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: coping with the week. Thankful that the weekend is almost here
<davmor2> bigcalm: how many minute to the bigevent
<joshmyers> hey guys - don't suppose anyone in here is running openwrt using Sky fibre??
<MooDoo> hi joshmyers I'm not but if you ask your question, then if anyone is aware they may be able to help or point you in the right direction.
<dwatkins> I have the Tomato firmware on my router.
<joshmyers> thx MooDoo
<bigcalm> davmor2: I won't be counting down the mins until the day
<davmor2> bigcalm: haha
<icmpv6> ikonia nigger
<icmpv6> FUCKING NIGGER BITCH
<icmpv6> I WILL RAPE YOUR MOTHER
<icmpv6> FUCKING CUNT MOTHERFUCKER
<TardarSauce> thank you for participation
<MooDoo> lol thanks TardarSauce :)
<diddledan> I never have understood what so many trolls have against people from nigeria
<diddledan> nice that they came in via IPv6 though - even trolls are migrating to the new world order
<DJones> What I want to know is how many bridges have internet access, thats where they're supposed to live
<MooDoo> I personally loved the amount of different letters they used, so flowery :)
<diddledan> DJones: maybe a sewer empties out under the bridge so they hooked into the sewer-fibre system (cityfibre?)
<diddledan> H2O networks installs it
<diddledan> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7104011.stm from 2007
<popey> Moving on.
<bigcalm> davmor2: T - 14 days, 1 hour, 48 mins
<davmor2> bigcalm: \o/
<diddledan> bigcalm: excited yet?
<bigcalm> diddledan: ill - been working hard and now that I don't have to work as hard, my body has given up
<bigcalm> diddledan: I'm sure I'll be excited later :)
<diddledan> \o/
<MooDoo> whats all the excitement about?
<GentileBen> diddledan: they have issues with people from the nation of Niger.
<GentileBen> I'd wager the majority of Americans think Africa is a country, anyway.
<davmor2> MooDoo: bigcalm is final being made an honest man
<bigcalm> davmor2: how dare you. I shall never be honest
<davmor2> bigcalm: you shall or hayley is gonna wail you into the middle of next month
<bigcalm> Wail me?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Knock you for six I might of picked the wrong wail but whale didn't look right either
<DJones> You should have said Wallop
<bigcalm> Aha, I see
<JohnRobert> is the wayland compositor any good these days?
<diddledan> JohnRobert: interested in "how the other half live"?
<diddledan> ubuntu will be using mir not wayland, so the other half is everyone that ain't buntu
<SuperMatt> I think it's more Keeping up with the Jones'
<diddledan> my fence is bigger than your fence!
<SuperMatt> tbh, I don't give a stuff if I end up with wayland or mir, I'm just going to be happy to wave good bye to X11
<diddledan> I'm going to miss the network transparency of X
<SuperMatt> I really haven't xforwarded anything in a long time
<diddledan> I like being able to ssh -X into my server and run virt-manager without worrying about the fact that it doesn't work on OS X
<SuperMatt> thing is, I'm sure someone will be able to hack in some kind of forwarding that's a little better than VNC
<diddledan> that's the thing - everyone who's said that it won't be a problem for those of us used to it has suggested that vnc would be the answer
<diddledan> I accept that it's a niche activity, but it's very useful when you get used to it
<SuperMatt> oh, I agree
<SuperMatt> I think there has to be a better way, I don't always want to see the entire desktop
<SuperMatt> what I would *really* like to see is a way to interact with a single application in its current running state
<SuperMatt> so I can sit on my bed and control the music player through its own gui
<ali1234> SuperMatt: the problem is that the wayland developers think VNC is already better than X11, when it is quite obviously not if you've ever actually used it
<diddledan> how can they feel that exporting a display is better than exporting an application when all you want is the application?
<SuperMatt> agreed
<diddledan> by display I am also including virtual headless "displays" that exist in memory
<ali1234> that isn't even the biggest problem with VNC
<SuperMatt> and tbh, vnc *is* terrible
<SuperMatt> the biggest problem with VNC is that it sends plain text passwords
<SuperMatt> anyone not familiar with port forwarding won't know how to get around that
<ali1234> no, that can be solved with an ssh tunnel - X11 does it too
<SuperMatt> but tunneling is quite difficult for a noob to get their head around
<ali1234> the biggest problem with VNC is it can never really know if a window changed or not
<diddledan> it _could_ binary diff two independent frames, but that's computationally expensive
<SuperMatt> ugg, yeah, having to force a refresh all the time irks me no end
<diddledan> X11 just works
<ali1234> yes. the second biggest problem with VNC is applications don't know you're using it. if you run mplayer over X11 it will fall back to X11 rendering which works. on VNC, you'll probably just get a pink rectangle
<diddledan> the not knowing when a window updates is even worse with compositing because the window manager doesn't get notified when the window updates
<diddledan> afaik
<diddledan> I'm treading into theory here and not using my learned knowledge
<ali1234> well, with wayland the window manager is the compositor
<diddledan> yeah, but the compositor doesn't know when a window updates either afaict
<ali1234> yeah
<diddledan> the app is given a memory range and draws whatever it likes in there and the compositor blats that onto a surface
<ali1234> basically in order to make remoting work you need that three way sync that wayland is deigned to remove
<diddledan> the compositor doesn't care about what the app does with it's "window"
<ali1234> client side decorations are also a problem if you don't like your desktop to look like this: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/rootless-x-under-wayland.png
<diddledan> whatever happens, if it's not X then it's going to be painful, simply because X is so entrenched - will apple or a third party make a compatible layer for os x for e.g. like they have with xquartz? will there be a similar movement on MS Windows?
<ali1234> that would probably be easier tbh
<diddledan> and let's not forget our brothers in BSD land
<ali1234> xquartz is awful btw and i expect xmir, xwayland to be equally bad
<diddledan> yeah, xquartz is evil. I hate that it behaves as a single application with multiple windows rather than multiple applications each with their own window - apple could have made X11 a first-party compatibility layer within quartz itself, but instead they made it as a bolt-on afterthought
<diddledan> imagine if they'd made quartz api and x11 api siblings rather than parent-child
<SuperEngineer> Annoyed - Pidgin doesn't seem to understand UTF-8... silly pidgin [no more breadcrumbs for you, pidgin!]
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: how so?
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: sure it isn't just the font you're using?
<SuperEngineer> i type <Ctrl.,;. in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get âº
<SuperEngineer> i type <Ctrl>,;> in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get âº
<SuperEngineer> [sorry distracted by phone ringing while typing
<ali1234> that is not utf8
<ali1234> that is IME
<SuperEngineer> i type <Ctrl><;> in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get âº
<ali1234> âº - sent with pidgin
<SuperEngineer> hmmm ... stand corrected
<diddledan> I've managed to convince my co-workers that the saucy release of ubuntu is in fact called "slimy squid"
<SuperEngineer> when I try - recipient says... "I can only see a little box!"
<ali1234> they don't have the font then
<ali1234> ð©
<ali1234> nobody has this character in their fonts ever ^
<diddledan> htf did you get that two-toned?
<ali1234> two-toned?
<diddledan> I'm gonna have to screenshot it
<ali1234> probably your irc client can't handle utf-8!
<TardarSauce> http://www.iemoji.com/view/emoji/55/smileys/dog-dirt
<TardarSauce> is it?
<TardarSauce> :-P
<ali1234> "PILE-OF-POO" yes
<TardarSauce> ah yes
<ali1234> do you actually have a font with it so you can see it??
<ali1234> if so, which one?
<diddledan> where can I post this screenshot?
<ali1234> diddledan: imagebin.org, imgur...
<directhex> i see the PILE OF POO just fine.
<rocky____> hi
<MooDoo> hello
<rocky____> hello
<ali1234> hi
<directhex> hi
<rocky____> can u hep me about wubi?
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<rocky____> i am trying to install ubuntu using wubi without internet is it possible?
<TardarSauce> right, symbola
<TardarSauce> aw, no debian package
<rocky____> i hav ubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386.iso
<diddledan> http://imagebin.org/273380
<diddledan> see? two-toned
<ali1234> diddledan: not really... what exactly is two-toned?
<diddledan> ali1234: brown turd, white eyes and mouth, black pupils
<directhex> isn't wubi dead?
<ali1234> oh, well, your irc client is dislaying a bitmap, not a font
<rocky____> it  is giving erroe
<TardarSauce> directhex: sadly on
<TardarSauce> no
<rocky____> Could not retrieve the required disk image files
<popey> rocky____: http://askubuntu.com/questions/43029/ubuntu-on-windows-without-internet
<rocky____> thank u popey
<popey>  np
<rocky____> but eventhough im running both wubi and distributor placed in same folder wubi gives me error
<rocky____> Could not retrieve the required disk image files
<TardarSauce> oh, the font problem seems to be bug 820034
<lubotu3> bug 820034 in Ubuntu Font Family "Expansion: Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs U+1F4A9" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820034
<SuperEngineer> wow
<TardarSauce> I'm not sure tho
<diddledan> I like mark's response: We're design driven. If we have to do poo, let's make it an elegant one ;-)
<ali1234> i now have 102 games on steam, 51 of which are supposed to work on linux :)
<SuperMatt> \o/
<SuperMatt> sometimes there's some problem with a game working in 64bit
<SuperMatt> which is frustrating
<kecskebak> You don't need steam when you have ClapTraps - it's the only game you'll ever need ;) https://sites.google.com/site/testpilotmonkeyproductions/
<diddledan> ali1234: you're about 50% of the way to enlightenment then
<MooDoo> diddledan: enlightenment? what you compiling that with ;)
<MooDoo> yeah ok wasn't funny
<diplo> afternoon all
<TardarSauce> mÃ¶h.
<MooDoo> diplo: HULLO
<SuperMatt> it is indeed the afternoon
<SuperMatt> and it is a sad one
<diplo> Any of you guys play any type of Flight simulator, have a friend whose 10 year old son wants to get into it and I know *nothing* basically about them
<SuperMatt> the office has been denied our usual friday cake because some people haven't filled in their time sheets :(
<SuperMatt> X-Plane
<diplo> Plays on ipad atm and the mum has just bought a PC/joystick and wants to know what to by
<SuperMatt> is apparently the best
<SuperMatt> works in linux too
<diplo> OK ta, on the site now finding specs :)
<diddledan> it can be difficult due to it's unwavering pursuit of realism
<diplo> I've mentioned that to her, and I said it can get expensive if he really gets into it
<diplo> So trying to work out a spec that's not overly expensive
<ali1234> there aren't many flight sims any more
<SuperMatt> them specs for x-plane aren't bad by today's standards
<diplo> In the old days it was always the MS one from memory.. couldn't get into it myself
<bigcalm> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; with the exception of 12.04 (Precise Pangolin), which will be supported for 5 years on the desktop. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Precise (Precise Pangolin 12.04)
<bigcalm> 2017?
<bigcalm> eol
<bigcalm> !Precise
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the current !LTS release of Ubuntu.  Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1204
<awilkins> EOL is 17.10
<diddledan> ubuntu stops after 17.10?
<awilkins> No, end of life for 12.04 is october 2017
<diddledan> is that the target for the rolling release? :-p
<dr_barnowl> Work have decided to study porting all our code to the MS stack
<dr_barnowl> Which basically means they've decided to do it
 * dr_barnowl wonders if Canonical is hiring
<diddledan> they think the pain of porting will give them a beneficial ROI?
<dr_barnowl> The beneficial ROI is that the guy in charge of the much larger MS stack based team will build his empire larger
<jpds> dr_barnowl: Always hiring.
<diddledan> aah, you've already got ms stuff in-house
<dr_barnowl> Well, it will be a nice relaxing three months of documenting and explaining a few tens of thousands of lines of Java code
<dr_barnowl> Presuming my job interview next week goes well...
<dr_barnowl> The thing I want to see most on Ubuntu, having been stuck behind a flipping ISA server proxy... is a unified proxy architecture
<dr_barnowl> I have a multi-pronged plan of attack
<dr_barnowl> I) OS runs a proxy daemon
<dr_barnowl> This is because not everything can process i) PAC scripts ii) Stupid auth methods like NTLM
<dr_barnowl> II) OS can socksify things
<dr_barnowl> See I) but add "some things don't do proxies"
<dr_barnowl> Things that are happy calling the "what's teh proxy" call and getting a PAC script can carry on doing it
<dr_barnowl> THing sthat are happy getting a nice simple "PROXY 127.1.1.1:8080" can get that, after the OS has parsed the PAC script for them
<dr_barnowl> Things that can't cope with proxies can get socksified
<diddledan> the question is where that needs to be implemented
<dr_barnowl> And behold, you no longer have the situation where what should be first-class apps shipped with the distro like Ubuntu One just can't cope with proxies
<diddledan> i.e. the kernel? the libc? an LD_PRELOAD library?
<dr_barnowl> Really I'd just like people to stop being silly and use transparent proxies... but they do love their MS ISA Server
<diddledan> can't isa be configged to run transparent?
<dr_barnowl> Well, good questions... I usually get away with running a proxy like ntlmaps in a user process
<dr_barnowl> Dunno enough about ISA - the story from ICT is they can't configure it to do access control lists on just our MAC addresses which sounds suspect but meh
<dr_barnowl> Some of us are allowed to download stuff from *gasp* sourceforge and the like, and some of us aint
<SuperMatt> man, gnome 3.10 looks proper awesome
<diddledan> really? proper awesome?
<diddledan> meh, it looks a bit fake awesome around the edges to me :-p
<SuperMatt> I think it's good to see a team trying something a little different
<SuperMatt> and I like it
<diddledan> I've not actually seen what they've been working on
<SuperMatt> home time
<SuperMatt> o/
 * dr_barnowl thinks about learning C++
<Myrtti> that was fun as long as it lasted.
<ali1234> SuperMatt: literally everyone is falling over themselves to try to be "different" and it is getting a bit tiresome, frankly
<apacheuk> anyone else having trouble connecting to Steam after the update?
<Azelphur> apacheuk: no issues here
<apacheuk> hmmm
<shauno> looks like a half-decent ISS pass in a few minutes, if your weather's anything like ours  (coooold but clear)
<shauno> (or maybe sooner, since I'm further west than most of you)
<StevenR> shauno: over .uk?
<shauno> not sure now.  my program says so, I couldn't see a thing
<shauno> hm, interesting.  app on my phone says it'll be here in 1hr21 minutes, which sounds like it just went past.  gpredict on my laptop says it just broke the horizon a minute ago.  now who do I believe?
<mgdm> both? :)
<mgdm> I use heavens-above.com
<daftykins> it's like winter here today, rain all night :S
<shauno> it's actually clear here, which is quite rare.  hence trying
 * Myrtti shakes her head
<daftykins> what's up?
<Myrtti> I'm just looking at my hilights going mad at #ubuntu
<daftykins> heh, i thought that was you for a bit before i read the nick closer
<Myrtti> mwahahahaha now it's grouped to my nickname
<Myrtti> and I shall *never* give it up.
<daftykins> you fiend, you
<Myrtti> awful innit
<daftykins> THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
<daftykins> (Myrtti)
<Myrtti> seriously though, staff nicks are abused so often by spammers etc that I rest a bit easier when I know atleast that one (which I have hilights for, because Finnish language!) in unusable
<daftykins> that's true
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-12
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<shauno> o/
<ali1234> wow i found out how to win at reddit
<ali1234> all you have to do is bash republicans apparently
<MooDoo> ali1234: something to keep you busy today then :D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning alan
<brobostigon> morning
<bashrc> is there any way to dismiss notifications before they disappear?
<shauno> the only reliable method I've found, is to close your eyes and count mississippis
<bashrc> |-)
<bashrc> it's a paper cut really
<bashrc> have been trying and failing to get a t-mobile usb broadband adapter working
<shauno> no help here .. I gave up and got a little 'mifi' gizmo that shares my 3g over wifi.  compatibility issues disappeared
<bashrc> like a hotspot?
<shauno> yeah
<bashrc> I might do the same.
<shauno> there's probably much more straightforward solutions.  just saying I've got nothing to offer because I gave up on that one.  wifi made it work on everything in one swoop
<bashrc> seems pretty hopeless, and the amount of time I've spent on this is silly
<ali1234> bashrc: on xfce there is
<ali1234> (notifications)
<ali1234> you could probably even just swap out the notifiation daemon
<leo_33\> are uk recruters all liars?
<shauno> I'm not sure it's specific to the UK.
<leo_33\> the UK ones are worst than some of the ones i came accross in europe
<bashrc> I don't have experience with continental recruiters, but UK ones are typically rotten
<shauno> well, the premise is flawed from the outset, imho.  their best interest isn't your best interest, and the outcome is pretty predictable
<bashrc> its the old saying "if you're not the customer you're the product being sold"
<bashrc> In the recent past I've found recruiters to be unreliable and sometimes rude.
<bashrc> The mifi device looks like a better option
<bashrc> then I could set up a wifi hotspot anywhere, in theory
<shauno> that's pretty much what I do, yeah.  it was a combination of my modem having exceptionally ancient drivers for osx, and bad 3g reception meaning the desk was a bad place to put the modem
<brobostigon> good evening everyone.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> evening your popey'ness
<popey> Pancakes for tea!
<Cloud80> Hi Popey. Nice!
<brobostigon> the brobostigon'ator has sausages and rice.
<penguin42> roar!
<popey> well technically the kids are having pancakeds
<ali1234> ok i just got a password reset request email from instagram
<ali1234> but i don't have an intragram account
<ali1234> but now i do
<ali1234> i think i must have pissed someone off as i'm getting a large amount of spam from fake dating sites and so on
<popey> yeah, sorry.
<popey> is it going to a catch all address, or your real email address?
<ali1234> my real email address, except without the .'s
<ali1234> maybe they are just making instagram account with like, aaaaaaaa@gmail, aaaaaaab@gmail.com and so on
<ali1234> i would be the 8 billionth spam account under such a scheme
<ali1234> i sent a bug report anyway
<ikonia> ali1234: send me the IP that it's being relayed from, I'm building a new personal RBL for spamming fools
<ali1234> it was sent legit from instagram
<ali1234> that's the point
<ikonia> ah,
<ali1234> someone signed up for an account there using my email, without me knowning
<ali1234> which should be impossible
<popey> yeah, i had that with xbox live and sky
<popey> i still get stuff from both
<ikonia> I've never seen that
<penguin42> I don't think I've had that; although I keep getting catalogues delivered by post addressed to a 'Rolf Neversyn'
<brobostigon> are the stas working fine still ?
<brobostigon> stats*
<popey> looks like it
<daubers> Evening
<dutchie> hi daubers
<daubers> intellij + github seems to = lots of fun :(
<penguin42> intellij?
<popey> pip pip
<daubers> http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/
<brobostigon> cool, thank you popey .
<brobostigon> if anyone notices any issues please be free to tell me.
<penguin42> daubers: What's the UI designer like - I normally spend ages fighting to get layout how I want (although I very rarely do stuff like that)
<daubers> penguin42: The little I've used of it, it's ok
<smilin> Hi, wondering if anyone can give me a bit of help with connecting windows phone as msd in linux
<popey> evening
<smilin> hi popey
<bigcalm> A quick google says that WP doesn't support MSD but does have MTP
<bigcalm> This is a quick google, your mileage may vary
<bigcalm> Morning popey
<bigcalm> I just ordered a Hudl for Hayley as a wedding present - I hope she realises by now what kind of monster she's marrying
<smilin> the problem i have, is that i moved files using mtp in windows, and it corrupted them, and everyone plays the same video. even thought the files are all different sizes. I want to get access to the device as msd so i can use testdisk or similar to recover these very personal videos
<bigcalm> directhex: do you still use a WP?
<smilin> been scouring the web for the pas two hours with no luck. tried three variants of windows, and now ubuntu
<bigcalm> popey: what news from the Southern front?
<directhex> bigcalm, no. and you're correct, it's MTP-only
<bigcalm> directhex: ta, can't remember who has one now
<smilin> damn. wonder if i can get an image of the phone say as a vhd backup and mount that instead
 * popey is at his mums house
<popey> her silly wifi only seems to work in a very isolated spot
<popey> which happens to be my old bedroom
<bigcalm> Spooky
<Myrtti> I'm still totally surprised that there's an awesome book publishing kickstarter platform
<Myrtti> I just learnt about this about half an hour ago
<Myrtti> so much for "I'll go to bed before 2am, I promise"
<popey> Myrtti: you should listen to the podcast â»  we mentioned unbound a few times
<popey> laura got a book from some UK green car celeb from it
<bigcalm> popey: Kryton
<popey> thassim
<bigcalm> Scrap heap challenge
<czajkowski> ello
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<popey> yo
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-13
<MartijnVdS> f1!
<daftykins> vroom.
<czajkowski> aloha
<daftykins> o hai
<daftykins> time for bed
<Aivaras> time for F1.
<daftykins> nooooo
<Aivaras> That's not optional. :D
<daftykins> i'd rather beat my head against the wall
<Aivaras> I'd rather do anything painless then cause physical pain for myself. :/
<daftykins> F1 *is* pain!
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> anywho nn \o
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> apport seems to be not working
<czajkowski> have had 3 crashes
<czajkowski> and it refuses to run when you click submit report
<czajkowski> *boggles*
<Myrtti> popey: I can barely listen podcasts that last 20 minutes...
<Myrtti> otherwise a good idea
<popey> Myrtti: you get bored?
<Myrtti> my concentration drifts too badly
<Myrtti> I've got bazillion podcasts on my phone that I regularly skip because they're too long and usually on the treshold of being boring enough that I tune out after five minutes
<nigelb> this happens to me too :\
<popey> czajkowski: thats normal isnt it?
<czajkowski> popey: not sure tbh
<czajkowski> I'd expect to see it collect data and open up
<popey> we switch off apport at release though
<czajkowski> hmm
<popey> so crashes get reported to daisy by whoopsie
<popey> you can see them if you ls /var/crash
<popey> but we don't trigger the bug reporter in the stable release
<popey> you can re-enable that if you want though, i have it always on
<czajkowski> ah ok
<czajkowski> popey: http://ubuntuone.com/1wbnOxVcw4SrHa5V6zOvjN
<czajkowski> one of the isues I see
<czajkowski> the image you cant make out correctly
<czajkowski> but when you click report
<czajkowski> nothing happen
<czajkowski> s
<popey> you have no network?
<czajkowski> I have though am/was connected
<popey> you weren't in that screenshot
<popey> note no network and dropbox not connected
<czajkowski> true
<shauno> trying my best not to mention the wallpaper, but it's not easy
<czajkowski> wallpaer?
<czajkowski> *wallpaper?
<shauno> the .. dog?
<czajkowski> the hen :)
<shauno> I see
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
 * SuperEngineer looks at list of installed Steam games... hopes a psychiatrist never see it ;)
<SuperEngineer> ["..& how just how long have you this weird, Mr. SuperEngineer?"]
<SuperEngineer> *you been
<shauno> SuperEngineer: I fear if the men in white coats are calling you Mr SuperEngineer, you may already be past the point of no return
<SuperEngineer> shauno: ;)
<Rudy-Chunkz> hello
<bigcalm> Groggy afternoon peeps :S
 * penguin42 yawns at bigcalm
<mungbean_> does anyone knwo the difference between sennheisr cx175 and cx200 (and cx300?)
<mungbean_> i have the cx300 which i bought for Â£16. now the cx300 II are ~Â£34
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: maybe a bit of frequency response or durability?
<MartijnVdS> http://24.media.tumblr.com/f8a185f17a4a8dffb1f10de1868e9d5d/tumblr_mtk35ywrt31sd9kedo1_500.jpg
<mungbean_> i think the cx175 seem nicer than the cx200
<mungbean_> very unclear though on the differences
<penguin42> perhaps it;s just another Â£18
<popey> directhex: any of the resident evil games any good?
<popey> given they're on sale
<popey> 5 seems a steal at Â£3.50
<mungbean_> i loved the original 1 and 2 on the ps
<mungbean_> although almost had heart attack mutiple occasions when a zombie bites you suddenly
<mungbean_> the strap on my casio f91w has split :(
<mungbean_> popey: you ever buy straps or just new watches?
<popey> i have yet to break a strap
<popey> and i have 4 watches, so spread the load
<bigcalm> The cold of the strap for a f91w would be higher than just buying a new one
<bigcalm> s/cold/cost
<mungbean_> the strap split in a strange place
<mungbean_> as if somebody almost cut right through it with scissors
<bigcalm> Swindon?
<mungbean_> only 2yrs old
<popey> i dont wear mine often
<mungbean_> :o
<mungbean_> i don'ttake mine off often
<bigcalm> I tend to only wear mine when out and about
<bigcalm> So not often at all
<mungbean_> even wear in bed
<bigcalm> Sounds like me aged 6 -> 13
<mungbean_> i wake up at night a lot (babies, children crying)
<mungbean_> and glancing at the little watch is the least wakey uppey way to check time
<mungbean_> too much light into eyeballs = awake
 * popey had a quick blast of Enemy Territory which was fun!
<elliott_> hello?
<directhex> popey, 6 is dreadful. 5 is okay. capcom games are mostly affected by the GFWL shutdown & will be bricked in july 2014
<directhex> today's 1-day thing is Dead Rising. DR2 is excellent - but it's going to be bricked in July since it uses GFWL server-side activation
<directhex> capcom have issued no statements at all about plans to fix the GWFL situation, except to say that the Street fighter 4 dlc, Ultra Street Fighter 4, will remove GFWL - the base game will keep using it
<popey> bummer
<directhex> games in this sale which are being bricked: Street Fighter X Tekken, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, Lost Planet 2, Dead Rising 2: Off The Record, Dead Rising 2
<directhex> games which aren't being bricked, but will possibly lose any multiplayer functionality (i.e. you'll need to use an offline local profile, whose creation is intentionally hard to do): street fighter 4, resident evil5, lost planet: extreme condition: colonies edition
<popey> none of those are interesting to me tbh
<Pricey> directhex: Surely some will be patched to remove gfwl?
<popey> I want a MGS like game
<directhex> Pricey, some. capcom has announced 0 such patchings, other than Ultra Street Fighter 4.
<Pricey> directhex: 'yay'. I'll certainly be buying all of their new releases with whatever new drm they employ. They've obviously learnt their lesson.
<jkh3432> i have an interesting problem
<jkh3432> xfce4-terminal segfaults when you open the encodings menu
<jkh3432> so obviously i ran it in gdb
<jkh3432> gdb freezes the app when it crashes
<jkh3432> so now it is frozen with the menu open
<jkh3432> unfortunately the menu locks focus when open
<jkh3432> so i now can't click on any other windows
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-06
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<kamkam> hi
<kamkam> hello
<kamkam> who are here?
<awilkins> Many are sort of semi-here and only listening when interesting things happen
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Ecological Debt Day! :-D
<Laney> yes, that sounds like a happy day
<JamesTait> Laney, it's prompted talk of animals towing cars and running payday loans companies... I created a monster!
<directhex> if only the government could just declare the ecological debt cleared
<davmor2> JamesTait: but animals pulling cars would surely release more methane into the atmosphere and that wouldn't be good
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> yo
<aquarius> yo
 * popey needs moar sleep
<aquarius> me too. :)
<diddledan> popey: too much ogging?
<popey> really enjoyed your talk at the weekend aquarius
<aquarius> cool!
<popey> indeed, too much ogg, not enough camp
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> the trick to sleeping under your desk is to have the cables in your hand so you can say you were trying to fix a wonky cable
<aquarius> it was, I am assured, recorded, so once Dan provides me with the recording I'll publish it and the slides
<aquarius> but people seem to have found it useful and enjoyed it
<aquarius> which is gratifying :)
<popey> yeah, I'm re-thinking a couple of my app plans
<popey> also, my wife asked me last night "do you know how to make mobile apps?"
<popey> "why?"
<popey> "The kids at school have to make some, the ICT teacher might be bugging you about it"
<aquarius> aha!
<aquarius> Niamh had to do that.
<aquarius> We used an online service that let you drag a few things together to make apps
<aquarius> http://www.adsy.me/ is not the one Niamh and I used (because that was a couple of years ago) but it is better.
<snarfit> http://www.adsy.me/: adsy.me - create free mobile applications
<aquarius> might wanna look at it
<popey> uh
<popey> who owns snarfit ?
<diddledan> popey: it was an experryment on behalf of daftykins
<diddledan> popey: it's mine
<popey> !bots
<lubotu3> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-uk's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots | Make a clone of me: /msg lubotu3 botclone
<popey> bah
<czajkowski> indeed
<popey> aquarius: if you remember what it was Niamh used, lemme know
<aquarius> is adsy no good?
<aquarius> the one Niamh used was worse
<aquarius> but adsy didn't exist then :)
<davmor2> popey: ogg is that a new beer?
<popey> aquarius: oh, dunno, i just assumed the one you'd used would have been better
<aquarius> nah, I would have used adsy if it had existed. The one we used was pretty shonky, but this was a couple of years ago :)
<popey> asdy doesn't let you offline them?
<popey> like you talked about
<aquarius> ah, don't know, I didn't look at that
<aquarius> I think it's probably just online
<aquarius> he one NIamh and I used didn't either
<aquarius> making offline apps is hard
<aquarius> huh, http://www.quora.com/Are-offline-mobile-web-apps-coming-soon says that adsy does offline!
<snarfit> http://www.quora.com/Are-offline-mobile-web-apps-coming-soon: Are offline mobile web apps coming soon? - Quora
<czajkowski> Oggcamp is in birmingham next year ?
<czajkowski> really
<Myrtti> well it could be worse
<popey> czajkowski: says who ? â»
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/bobobex/status/519111062285996032
<snarfit> https://twitter.com/bobobex/status/519111062285996032: Becky Newborough on Twitter: "Home from @oggcamp. Had a lovely time (don't we always!). Looking forward to next year's event in Birmingham organised by @dick_turpin :D"
<czajkowski> what is snarfit
<popey> you may have a broken sense of humour
<popey> or becky does
<czajkowski> popey: I was wondering..
<popey> note the smiley
<czajkowski> what happened the offical irc bot ?
<zmoylan-pi> snarfit is a bot that displays the title of the page of the urls posted i think
<christel> if it's on the internet it must be true, that's a universal law
<christel> so oggcamp will now have to be in birmingham next year
<czajkowski> christel: :D ZMOG!!
<christel> :s
 * christel snuggles czajkowski 
<czajkowski> hello my dear!
<czajkowski> anyone on Utopic hitting this bug daily ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1368217
<snarfit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1368217: Bug #1368217 âchromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGVâ : Bugs : âchromium-browserâ package : Ubuntu
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1368217 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]
<awilkins> snarfit vs lubotu3 .... FIGHT!
<zmoylan-pi> 400 quatloos on the newcomer...
<awilkins> "snarfit uses Tweet Parser. It's super effective!"
<awilkins> Ugh, the general interconnectedness of internet things is creeping me out a bit
<awilkins> GF got us tickets to a taiko concert
<awilkins> I must have mentioned taiko once on Hangouts
<awilkins> Spotify is now suggesting albums of taiko music to me
<awilkins> Creepy
<diddledan> daftykins: see the trouble you get me into?! :-p
<diddledan> it's supposed to ignore launchpad urls
<diddledan> oh I see - I have it ignoring a different url pattern
<diddledan> launchpad.net/bugs vs bugs.launchpad.net
<daftykins> diddledan: did you get a wrist slap? ^_^
<Myrtti> did you already discuss it with popey?
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm not sure, but I feel violated :-p there were questions but nobody has said "NO! FOR THE LOVE OF MARK, NO!" yet
<Myrtti> freenode guidelines say, I think, that you shouldn't run a bot on a channel without discussing and getting an explicit go-ahead from the ops.
<Myrtti> so, I guess the question is, have you?
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> daftykins: you're a bad influence :-p
<Myrtti> it should really be a no brainer, especially if the bot speaks.
<diddledan> I guess we need to ask ourselves: what would sabdfl do? :-D
<daftykins> hey i didn't go "diddledan i command you to make a bot!" :D
<diddledan> daftykins: wait, you didn't?
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm sure that's what I heard
<daftykins> thank tux for channel logs
<daftykins> this is pretty crazy, i'm installing a new game on my xbox one. 36GB it's putting on
<diddledan> jee that's hooge
<daftykins> it said you could start it up after 11 minutes of copy, but i've timed the whole lot to see
<daftykins> nearing 90% after 32 mins D:
<diddledan> that's near enough 11 minutes, right?
<daftykins> i wonder what bluray's data rate is
<daftykins> i can hear the waft of air coming from this thing but it doesn't sound particularly flat out
 * Myrtti still stares at snarfit
 * diddledan cuddles Myrtti 
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> that's what you get! :-p
<Myrtti> maybe I'm uptight and grumpy but I'm not impressed. I certainly hope you're talking to someone about the bot right now, because I can't think of any other reason why it's still on the channel.
<Myrtti> maybe I should just go watch O'Reilly webinars or something.
<diddledan> it's still here because I've been busy elsewhere and haven't had a chance to shut it down
<diddledan> I'm just bringing it down now
<diddledan> see? gone
<daftykins> Myrtti: i'd say calm down, your response is totally mismatched to the topic at hand
<Myrtti> daftykins: I know, and I did mention it.
<daftykins> yep that diddledan should've known better, but equally he's a very reasonable chap that would easily reverse an action at the first sign of a request
<daftykins> i'd sooner put more effort into sorting out certain other areas of the freenode community
<Myrtti> oh you don't want me to go that route... I'd set everything on fire.
<Myrtti> and have S'mores \o/
<daftykins> no patience for it, is it?
<diddledan> daftykins: how dare you state that I'm reasonable. The bloomin' liberty to suggest that I'll do what I'm asked! :-p
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> hehe
<daftykins> so that game installed at 40 minutes
<daftykins> now it's downloading a 1.3GB patch
<Myrtti> daftykins: Destiny?
<daftykins> nah, i've had Destiny for a while and it's way smaller than this
<diddledan> so it's 11 minutes +/- 30 minutes
<daftykins> this is a new racing game, Forza Horizon 2
<Myrtti> we had a good laugh earlier when it was in beta and dsample downloaded it on our FTTC connection
<daftykins> which amazon failed to get to me for release day on Friday ^_^
<Myrtti> his brother was away for the weekend or something and his connection at home was slow
<Myrtti> eventually what happened was that by the time he had it downloaded and had time to play it, the beta was over :-D
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> ah the comedy, i did suspect that would happen
<daftykins> i played a bit of the beta when i only had the xbox 360
<daftykins> wow it looked so much worse
<daftykins> the 360 seems only capable of pulling down ~1MB/sec too - despite my 40Mb down
<zmoylan-pi> wow and i used to complain when it took 10 minutes to load starglider from tape on zx spectrum +2 :-)
<zmoylan-pi> mind it was a good time to do schoo homework
<zmoylan-pi> *school
<diddledan> there's never a good time to do school work
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> i hear that kids today have web portals to do their homework via
<daftykins> it's a wonder they ever see the outdoors these days what with all the electronics forced upon them Â¬_Â¬
<zmoylan-pi> really concentrated the mind, load a game, play it and think about the problems assigned, then load another game, do the work, then play the next game, repeat till no more homework :-)
<diddledan> wait. what's outdoors?
<daftykins> :)
<DJones> diddledan: Its like indoors, but cold, wet, dark, windy etc
<diddledan> is outdoors the VR that exists beyond your living space?
<diddledan> if so I didn't like it
<zmoylan-pi> you haven't been to ireland DJones :-p
<DJones> Only Belfast
<safiyyah> hi everyone, I cannot seem to burn an ISO in my system. I am running 14.04 (which was an upgrade from the normal sys upgrades. I wanted to load it into a disk and do a clean install because at the moment I do not have a seperate home partition.
<safiyyah> All the DVD disk I burn, 8 in total, still come up as a blank disk AFTER the disk burner tells me it was a success, last week we thought my DVD burner was faulty so this one is brand new, got it out of the pack today!
<safiyyah> Also the bootable USB, doesn't seem to get picked up. I am on a BIOS system.
<safiyyah> Apart from sorting out my partitions, at this point am fed up so if I can sort out my partitions without needing a clean install then, am fine with that too
<daftykins> how did you make the USB up?
<daftykins> also welcome back
<safiyyah> daftykins, using the startup disk thingi
<DJones> Heh https://twitter.com/BBCEngland/status/519145207288590336/photo/1
<daftykins> did you md5 your downloaded ISO to be sure it's ok?
<safiyyah> daftykins, thank you,
<safiyyah> if that means that command where you get a number to compare then yes did that already
<daftykins> ok so what i would do is totally format the flash drive, then try putting the ISO onto it with "dd" instead
<safiyyah> dd?
<daftykins> e.g. lets say the flash drive is /dev/sdc, "sudo dd if=/path/to/file.iso of=/dev/sdc bs=4K"
<safiyyah> okay will put the flash drive... we have to find it first
<safiyyah> lspci?
<daftykins> "sudo fdisk -l"
<daftykins> to identify it, size would be the most obvious metric
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8508795/
<safiyyah> I think its the  sdc1
<safiyyah> it's a 4gb flash drive
<daftykins> yep, but you will use dd to write straight to the device
<daftykins> so don't use sdc1, but 'sdc'
<daftykins> pretty jammy guess on my example \o/
<daftykins> safiyyah: is sdb your old HDD and sda your new one?
<safiyyah> sudo dd if=/home/safiyyah/Downloads/ubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdc bs=4K
<safiyyah> daftykins please check if I wrote the commance properly?
<safiyyah> i dont know why there is an sdb and an sda
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: command looks fine, IF you've checked if /dev/sdc is the correct one
<safiyyah> I thought there was only an sda
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: you don't want to overwrite your hard disk accidentally
<daftykins> safiyyah: yep that's perfect
<safiyyah> and you are sure it's sdc?
<daftykins> 100%
<safiyyah> okay one last questions do I put i386 architecture or 64amd
<safiyyah> I have both files
<safiyyah> Are you guys all on the 64 now?
<daftykins> what's your processor type and model?
<safiyyah> I don't want to be the only one with it
<daftykins> and system RAM
<MartijnVdS> Use 64 unless the processor of the destination system doesn't support it
<safiyyah> I have 2 mb of ram
<MartijnVdS> 2 GB I hope :)
<daftykins> "cat /proc/cpuinfo" and read the model #?
<safiyyah> processor I think is it pentium 2?
<daftykins> haha no it'll be a fair bit newer than a P2
<MartijnVdS> Pentiul 2 is from 1999 or something
<safiyyah> lol
<MartijnVdS> It could be a Core 2 Duo?
<safiyyah> cant remember its about 6 years old
<safiyyah> yes its tyhe core 2 duo
<MartijnVdS> sounds like C2D :)
<safiyyah> yes and 2 gb of ram
<daftykins> go amd64 then
<daftykins> so run it as you shared :)
<safiyyah> 2 cards of 1gb ram on the motherboard
<safiyyah> and the motherboard is ASUS
<daftykins> you won't see any output or progress, so just let it complete and return to the BASH prompt
<safiyyah> just last time I had an amd 64 system it drove me mad, needing everything configured
<safiyyah> I had to become best friend with the terminal
<MartijnVdS> it's no longer like that
<safiyyah> am not keen on the fight
<safiyyah> okay cool
<daftykins> safiyyah: the thing is, as you have two hard disks it looks like you've got two OS installs there... i'd just pick whichever one you want the OS to stay on, then turn the other disk into your /home partition. that would be easy
<safiyyah> daftykins, that is what am trying to do
<daftykins> you don't need to clean install then really
<safiyyah> I want the big one as the home partion
<daftykins> oh the big, ok
<safiyyah> well the OS never seems t need more than 15gb
<daftykins> indeed
<safiyyah> I tend to have lots on my home file
<safiyyah> downloads, pictures the works
<daftykins> yep it's totally logical
<safiyyah> I figured that's where I needed more space
<daftykins> what OS installs are on each disk though 0o
<daftykins> i.e. ubuntu versions?
<safiyyah> lol The big one has 14.04 (upgraded from the software centre
<safiyyah> and the other one is 12.04
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> might as well nuke the lot and start again then yes :)
<daftykins> however both disks are in the wrong order right now of course
<safiyyah> yes am ready! backed all my data
<safiyyah> am ready"
<daftykins> it's a desktop presumably?
<safiyyah> if the damn iso disk would work
<safiyyah> yes desktop
<safiyyah> cd
<daftykins> oh well lets concentrate on getting bootable media first
<safiyyah> okay daftykins I put the command in
<safiyyah> the terminal is at it at the moment
<daftykins> good stuff
<daftykins> shouldn't be more than a few minutes
<safiyyah> when it finishes then I take it I will get the usual prompt again
<daftykins> have you previously identified how to get your system to display a boot menu, for device selection, at power on?
<safiyyah> yes
<daftykins> it's F8 on Asus boards i think
<daftykins> as i have one of that era myself
<safiyyah> there is no option for USB boot, it just says other
<safiyyah> I haven't tried f8
<safiyyah> daftykins, I think you were the one who told me to buy the board?
<daftykins> ok, be sure to use the USB ports directly from the motherboard too
<safiyyah> ah I have been using the ones attached to the case
<safiyyah> okay will do
<daftykins> err i remember speaking to you in the past, but i don't recall that specifically
<daftykins> was it when the machine was dead at some point and you were picking a new motherboard to replace it?
<safiyyah> yes
<daftykins> yeah no doubt i favoured Asus then :D
<safiyyah> I tend to replace bits as I need them
<safiyyah> like this time I replaced the CD drive
<safiyyah> and got a new SSD
<safiyyah> yeah that time you told me the motherboard and the SSD
<safiyyah> could only afford 60gb
<daftykins> so when you do your install, you should only proceed when the installer sees the 60GB drive as sda and the 250GB as sdb... if they're the other way around it'll be far from ideal
<safiyyah> but they got cheaper so I bought a bigger one
<daftykins> you might end up needing to swap the SATA data cables that connect them both, to swap that order
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8508927/
<safiyyah> I think that's the desired output
<daftykins> looks good, do you follow me on the disk order topic?
<safiyyah> I think I connected the larger one to SATA1
<safiyyah> yes
<safiyyah> isn't installer going to ask me about partitions as usual?
<daftykins> yeah so i'd go test whether you can boot the flash drive, hitting F8 when you see either an Asus logo or just the BIOS POST screen which may say how much RAM you have...
<daftykins> then if it does boot, i'd swap the disks before installing
<safiyyah> okay
<daftykins> it will, but GRUB will end up being installed to the larger disk with /home on
<daftykins> which'd be kinda messy imo
<safiyyah> oh noooooo
<daftykins> anywho see if it boots and come back here i think :)
<safiyyah> will do so
<daftykins> unless you have another device to join IRC from
<safiyyah> i tried it on my android phone
<safiyyah> am too thick to make it work
<safiyyah> lol
<daftykins> "andchat" is pretty good
<safiyyah> yes but I can't seem to get into the room
<safiyyah> I ask for ubuntu-uk and that is a mess
<safiyyah> nothing happens
<daftykins> including the first # ?
<safiyyah> let me get it up while I have you because that black screen and bios might be a challenge
<daftykins> okie dokie
<safiyyah> I only get by sorting my system out because I have you guys
<safiyyah> am not proper techy
<daftykins> ^_^ well it helps that you're a lot more competent than most helpees :)
<daftykins> i didn't even have to ask you to pastebin things! :D
<safiyyah> awww
<safiyyah> thank you
<safiyyah> am just reinstalling andchat
<daftykins> cool
<Safiyyah237> Hello
<safiyyah> oh I got it"
<safiyyah> i am safiyyah237 on andchat
<safiyyah> daftykins
<safiyyah> surprised myself there!
<safiyyah> I practically installed all the irc apps last week and couldn't successfully get myself in
<christopherd> I should buy you a beer!
<safiyyah> lol
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> excellent
<safiyyah> christopherd, yes one of those posh non-alcoholic drinks lol
<diddledan> drive-by beer?
<safiyyah> okay see you on and chat
<safiyyah> lol I dont drink
<daftykins> time to power off, swap that flash drive to the motherboard ports and give the F8 boot menu a try \o/
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> :)
<knightwise> evening
<Safiyyah237> daftykins it booted
<Safiyyah237> Just need to select the hard drives properly now
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> knightwise: hi
<knightwise> hey daftykins , how are you tonight
<daftykins> not bad ty, just lazing with a new xbox game :) or at least i might get to it eventually :D yourself?
<knightwise> In evening class , project management prince2
<Safiyyah237> Daftykins Okay I  can't seem to get it to pet go of the sub issue can I format to ext4
<daftykins> ah a couple of friends did that
<Safiyyah237> Ladt time it was abit buggy
<daftykins> crazy expensive and really obvious, they said - just lots of management buzzwords
<daftykins> Safiyyah237: sorry not quite following you there, did you select 'something else' during the partitioning stage? that would be the best choice here
<daftykins> hopefully 'sda' is now the 60GB SSD
<knightwise> daftykins: true
<knightwise> common sense in fancy words
<Safiyyah237> Daftykins am picking the partition but I can't move my 60gb, into sda
<daftykins> Safiyyah237: did you swap the SATA data cables already?
<Safiyyah237> No its still sdb
<Safiyyah237> Oh crap no I didn't
<daftykins> :D
<Safiyyah237> Will start again
<Safiyyah237> Am sorry
<daftykins> that'll be the ticket
<daftykins> no problem
<daftykins> obviously power off to do that
<Safiyyah> Daftykins why does sdb need a swap?
<daftykins> it shouldn't do, you'll only need one swap partition overall
<Safiyyah> I  have done it now btw,  everything is in order
<daftykins> if you're partitioning now, i would remove everything from both disks
<daftykins> great stuff :)
<daftykins> i would probably put a 4GB swap file on /dev/sda along with the rest of the space for /, then make the entire sdb your /home
<arsenip> how big are they?
<arsenip> raid :D
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> nah she doesn't need that
<Safiyyah> Is sdb a logical or primary partition?
<daftykins> it'll be primary
<daftykins> only the swap on sda should be logical, though it doesn't matter either way
<daftykins> all three can be primary
<daftykins>  /, swap and /home
<Safiyyah> Done
<Safiyyah> Finally
<Safiyyah> It's copying the files
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> should be nice and rapid USB -> SSD
<Safiyyah> The stuff with the partitions would have driven me crazy to work out why I  can't get it to sda lol
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> often i pull every other drive in a system to make sure the only drive with boot components on it, is the one with the OS installed
<Safiyyah> Daftykins we still have the nvidia drivers to do....  5 more minutes on the install it says,  font leave me!
<daftykins> haha, do you do anything like games that benefit from them? i'd try and get by with nouveau if it works fine for you
<awilkins> Looks like all their servers are a bit fucked
<awilkins> Support server is kaput
<daftykins> not very necessary language sir
<Safiyyah> Daftykins am hooked on compiz
<Safiyyah> Can't live without it
<Safiyyah> It's the thing that makes me brag to all the windows am Mac users
<Safiyyah> Love how they just know their isn't as good lol
<daftykins> also - who? :)
<daftykins> Safiyyah: heh fair enough, but 3D works fine with nouveau too
<Safiyyah237> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0037SHEAQ?qid=1412620239&sr=8-1&vs=1
<Safiyyah237> I recommend this tray
<Safiyyah237> Best thing since sliced bread
<Safiyyah237> Holds two SSD drove,  no screws very tidy
<Safiyyah237> Daftykins
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> wee bit pricey :)
<safiyyah> daftykins, okay am in the new system!
<safiyyah> now need to solve nvidia
<daftykins> just fire up the additonal drivers area to select an alternative driver
<daftykins> but as i say i'm pretty sure it'll be doing all the 3D fancy stuff right now
<safiyyah> yes am installing
<safiyyah> this is the bit we end up calling popey on
<safiyyah> during my last install, I made some notes which states that the best driver for my Nvidia 8400 is 173
<daftykins> XD
<safiyyah> which am putting
<daftykins> yeah that makes sense, quite an old card that
<safiyyah> also popey made me a custome made xorg.conf
<MartijnVdS> shouldn't be necessary anymore
<daftykins> oh yeah wasn't there some screen resolution difficulty in the past?
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i think there was a case involving an exotic display :>
<daftykins> safiyyah: part of me expects the woes of the past to be due to that old driver, i definitely wouldn't try the xorg.conf until it's deemed absolutely necessary though
<safiyyah> okay well it has installed it
<safiyyah> let's see if the graphics go mad
<daftykins> time to reboot and see what you get
<safiyyah> okay, rebooting
<Safiyyah237> Yep the crazy graphics are here!
<safiyyah> okay
<daftykins> soo, not quite filling the screen or something?
<safiyyah> so now is it lol
<safiyyah> fills the screen the resolution is very very poor
<daftykins> remind me, does this screen connect over VGA?
<safiyyah> right so back to the notes from last time?
<safiyyah> yes VGA
<daftykins> nah i wouldn't revert just yet
<safiyyah> but I have a 21 inch screen
<safiyyah> its a TV
<daftykins> *nod*
<safiyyah> thats how popey ended up making me a  file
<daftykins> if you could install pastebinit then run "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log" we can see what it's up to
<safiyyah> okay so lets see the nothers
<safiyyah> oh damn! my machine name!
<safiyyah> we need to fix that
<safiyyah> lol
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> someone wasn't paying enough attention during the installer ;)
<safiyyah> safiyyah@safiyyah-System-Product-Name:~$
<safiyyah> forgot to delete the system bit
<safiyyah> damn!
<daftykins> heh that's an odd one
<daftykins> easily remedied though
<safiyyah> right back to nvidia issues
<safiyyah> so it's sudo aptget pastebinit ?
<daftykins> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<daftykins> i'm assuming the system is fully up to date as is though
<daftykins> may want to run a "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to be sure first
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8509327/
<daftykins> glancing now
<daftykins> does anyone have any better methods than a manual edit of /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname to change the host's name? :)
<safiyyah> okay so it is still using nouvou
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> it's using nvidia
<safiyyah> my notes say it needs to have something like loadmodule:'nvidia'
<daftykins> safiyyah: looks like your system's not updated yet, i spy a -32 instead of -36 kernel.
<safiyyah> okay so need to update everything?
<daftykins> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> on it
<daftykins> so yeah it's failing to read the EDID over the VGA cable again, so that's the old issue from the past
<safiyyah> needs 9 minutes to complete
<safiyyah> so do we need popey's xorg.conf file?
<daftykins> well i would personally prefer to try at least the 304 driver before giving up
<safiyyah> will put a new graphics card on the shopping list of my next upgrade in two years lol
<daftykins> i think the issue is more that you don't have a nice digitally connected monitor
<daftykins> something with DVI, HDMI or displayport wouldn't have this issue
<safiyyah> my notes say all drivers failed except the 173
<safiyyah> I havea HDMI monitor
<daftykins> what was failure? no picture at all?
<daftykins> ah ok, just no HDMI out on the graphics card?
<safiyyah> illegibile huge pixels
<safiyyah> yes daftykins , its the graphics card that is old
<daftykins> it should have DVI though i'd be willing to bet
<daftykins> the wide white connector
<safiyyah> when we do the next upgrade in two years I will buy a graphics card
<safiyyah> gone over budget with the new SSD
<safiyyah> and tray and DVD drive lol
<daftykins> well, you could just have a cable that converts DVI -> HDMI, then all this would go away :>
<safiyyah> NO MORE!
<safiyyah> popey's magic file will make it go away
<safiyyah> I hope!
<safiyyah> I only do new installs when either a part of the machine dies OR the new LTS is out
<safiyyah> so hopefully the next one is in two years
<safiyyah> lol
 * zmoylan-pi sees your dvi -> hdmi adapter and wonders where i put the frankencable that was vga -> dvi -> hdmi that i made for my rasp pi :-)
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> it didn't work as the hdmi port is too low power so i ended up connecting the pi via scart instead which was another adventure :-)
<daftykins> safiyyah: ok, i'd let the dist-upgrade complete, reboot, place the xorg.conf, reboot again and if the display is all perfect it'll be hostname edit time
<safiyyah> okay
<daftykins> SCART D: oh my word.
<safiyyah> still 3 minutes on the upgrade left
<zmoylan-pi> but daftykins it worked :-)
<safiyyah> daftykins, did you check out the tray on Amazon?
<daftykins> oh certainly, you wouldn't catch me using such an interconnect these days though ;)
<daftykins> safiyyah: yep, tad pricey i thought
<safiyyah> bought it for 6 quid 2 weeks ago
<safiyyah> someone woke up and double the price
<safiyyah> but it is really really good
<safiyyah> it's my favourite bit now
<zmoylan-pi> well daftykins in my early days i used an interfaker to print out on cpm computers and input the info into serial on ancient pcs.
<zmoylan-pi> parallel -> serial was... special
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what baud rate?
<safiyyah> was it gksudo nautilus to get a nautilus that had super user priviledges so I can drag and drop the file?
<daftykins> safiyyah: it definitely serves the purpose! i mostly just tape SSDs in XD
<zmoylan-pi> usually 2400/4800 as 9600 was just too fast :-)
<daftykins> safiyyah: yep but gksudo isn't installed as default anymore i think
<safiyyah> oh damn
<safiyyah> how do i put it in?
<daftykins> run it, then it should tell you what package needs to be installed to provide it
<safiyyah> sudo apt-get install gksu
<safiyyah> let the update finish then install gksu and then reboot
<safiyyah> I don't know how they boosted the price in two weeks so much
<daftykins> evil amazon marketplace sellers i guess
<safiyyah> in any case, it's really good
<daftykins> safiyyah: just a thought then, if that TV has HDMI in and you don't use it - and the graphics card has DVI out... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Premium-HDMI-Cable-Gold-Metre-Black/dp/B000GDI6FC/
<safiyyah> I use HDMI
<safiyyah> for my Blue Ray player
<safiyyah> Don't have a telly
<safiyyah> do everything via the net
<safiyyah> and the Blue ray player
<safiyyah> kids can watch all their bits on youtube and iplayer and several other places
<daftykins> whatever the screen device is though
<safiyyah> well the HDMI port it taken
<daftykins> i guess it would be a pain to swap over each time
<safiyyah> i would have to buy a splitter cable first
<daftykins> well, an HDMI switcher really yeah
<daftykins> oh well
<daftykins> i just can't stand analogue display connections anymore
<daftykins> you get issues like... yours :)
<safiyyah> no we will upgrade to a new graphics card
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> it might have a couple of options
<daftykins> yeah but you'd still have to use VGA, so you'd still have the same problem
<safiyyah> isnt there an HDMI splitter cable?
<daftykins> it doesn't work like that
<safiyyah> ah!
<safiyyah> what about USB?
<daftykins> doesn't carry video, yet
<safiyyah> it has a USB port
<safiyyah> hmmmm
<safiyyah> we'll cross that bridge when we get to it
<daftykins> nah that'd never work as a signal input as-is
<daftykins> *nod*
<safiyyah> am thinking I will need a new card purely because this one is soooo old
<safiyyah> its a dinosaur
<safiyyah> okay reboot time, am still on andcha
<safiyyah> where is the xorg.conf?
<safiyyah> I thought it was in /var
<safiyyah> i mean /var/log
<daftykins> /etc/X11/
<daftykins> there won't be one right now, so you'll just be placing it
<safiyyah> daftykins, also I might decide I was a bigger 32 inch monitor by then
<safiyyah> want*
<safiyyah> am sure I can get one with two HDMI ports
<daftykins> definitely
<daftykins> mine has like 4
<safiyyah> yes, I have had this one for about 5 years, it was the new cool technology at the time
<safiyyah> am sure in a couple more years I will be keen on a bigger sharper one
<safiyyah> with more ports, so when I upgrade the graphics card it won't cause this headache
<daftykins> mmm, i remember paying Â£400+ for my 24" computer screens, now they're <Â£200 for something great
<safiyyah> hopefully there will be no dead part between this LTS and the next
<safiyyah> Yeah i forked out quite a bit for this one at that time too
<safiyyah> but for me, it's a great entertainment centre and work space
<safiyyah> got the Pc surround sound speakers
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ah nice
<safiyyah> it has HD
<safiyyah> my blu ray disks appear crisp
<safiyyah> like you can touch the image
<safiyyah> I think it does the job
<safiyyah> just getting greedy wanting a bigger screen
<daftykins> :D
<safiyyah> but am sure within 2 years, I will have gotten a new screen lol
<safiyyah> I do my work out DVD's on it too
<daftykins> it's a slippery slope, you can never go back once you buy a larger screen
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> it's the work outs that make me want a big one
<safiyyah> I am short sighted, and I dont work out with glasses
<safiyyah> its a bit annoying coming close to the screen to see what to do
<daftykins> ah-har
<safiyyah> Insanity is okay, cos shaun T talks you through stuff, but Tapout really needs you to look at what is going on
<safiyyah> TapoutXT
<safiyyah> thats what's causing me to want the 32
<safiyyah> but I have everything else as I want it.... sound etc
<safiyyah> besides it's nice shouting at the screen and no-one is around to call me crazy in my own home
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> brb I think it's reboot time
<safiyyah> although my cat gives me wierd looks
<safiyyah> Daftykins ITS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!
<zmoylan-pi> cats give everyone weird looks, it's part of their job description
<daftykins> popey from the past saves the day :)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: +1
<safiyyah> zmoylan-pi,  lol not this breed, I have a HUGE cat, breed is called maine coon
<safiyyah> big as a dog
<safiyyah> weighs about 10kg
<zmoylan-pi> well a small dog, they are fairly hefty alright
<daftykins> this was mine last night - https://www.dropbox.com/s/mcltxzzutwnylgr/IMG_20141006_015659.jpg?dl=0
<safiyyah> if he is giving you wierd looks, he means it lol
<safiyyah> lol mine cat cannot fit in my lap
<safiyyah> my*
<safiyyah> too big
<safiyyah> youtube main coon cats on youtube.... but be advised
<safiyyah> if you get one, you will never want a normal cat again
<safiyyah> as you will decide they are too dumb
<safiyyah> dont say I didn't warn you
<zmoylan-pi> i i shared a house with a cat that could put keys in locks and open doors
<daftykins> XD
<safiyyah> daftykins, is popey not around anymore?
<daftykins> yeah he's about, just got a family and job to contend with i suspect :)
<safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, yes my cat can reach the door handles and stuff. opens the cupboard etc
<safiyyah> can reach the counter top to see what you are doing as well, since he is so long
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> her other speciality was opening the oven door while it was on, pulling the roasting pan to the front and hooking out sausages.  i've never known another animal to stick themselves into a fire like that
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> my cat will NEVER put himself at risk
<zmoylan-pi> but they were the very best of sausages :-)
<safiyyah> he will steal the meat if it is out and cool
<safiyyah> he cant open my oven because the door is too heavy.... got an old heavy cooker
<daftykins> safiyyah: just the computer name change left then?
<zmoylan-pi> my mother then decided it was time to replace the oven, she got a lot of funny looks asking in stores for an oven with a door that a cat couldn't open
<safiyyah> was shopping about for a new one, then when I got the price of a gas range from AGA I was ready to passout and got busy ringing technicians to fix my old cooker
<safiyyah> Â£4200
<safiyyah> for a cooker!
<zmoylan-pi> agas aren't an oven, they're a lifestyle :-)
<daftykins> we can't buy gas cookers online or from retailers over here, our local gas supply is LPG so everything has to be converted to use it :(
<daftykins> kinda locks you into the local gas company to supply things
<safiyyah> zmoylan, I kept going to currys and everywhere looking at cookers and they all felt flimsy
<safiyyah> I have an old baumatic range cooker from 15 years ago
<safiyyah> It is SOLID
<safiyyah> so  everything feels flimsy! even the new baumatics
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i could probably club the modern ovens to pieces with some of the frying pans my father had
<zmoylan-pi> not an aga though, you can bounce a tank off them
<safiyyah> so I have an AGA shop nearby and popped in and they felt sturdy... and more like an upgrade to my range
<safiyyah> LOL
<safiyyah> when I heard the price..... I had to put my tail between my legs and scoot
<safiyyah> I just wanted a sturdy gas range... AGA does them too
<zmoylan-pi> but your kids do get to inherit your aga
<safiyyah> rofl
<safiyyah> yes
<zmoylan-pi> i think they are making /cheap/ agas now, or so i've been told
<safiyyah> but then I think that means I can wait to buy one for my 50th birthday
<safiyyah> I am sure I will have money for a cooker that costs that much by then!
<zmoylan-pi> and you want to be buried in it.  just to annoy the pallbearers :-p
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> I will leave it for the kids
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> just in my life right now, even my car didnt cost 4200
<safiyyah> lol
<zmoylan-pi> my sister spent a silly amount of money having a bed custom made.  but she reckons it was worth it as it'll last well past her life time
<safiyyah> hmmm
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> I think the ONLY item in my house that I would spend money in is a cooker
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> I love cooking and baking,
<safiyyah> and am old school, got no toaster or anything, everything gets done on the cooker itself
<zmoylan-pi> that's why i'd invest in the fastest microwave going :-p
<safiyyah> even the old kettle is a hob one
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> my friend came to visit and she made herself a cup of tea
<daftykins> safiyyah: anywho i'd rename the computer by changing all references to it at the same time in the two files: /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname :) "sudo nano /etc/hosts" for example
<safiyyah> then she realised that I also make my toast on the griddle
<safiyyah> she told me to throw my cooker out and get the old stoves with three stones and wood
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> daftykins
<safiyyah> thats gedit?
<foobarry> has anyone looked into the usb attack ?
<daftykins> safiyyah: nah it's a terminal editor
<safiyyah> oh crap
<daftykins> you can use "gksudo gedit" to do it if you like, but eventually that option is going to be phased out
<safiyyah> can we do it through gedit?
<safiyyah> okay time to learn
<safiyyah> okay am ready
<safiyyah> lets learn
<safiyyah> talk me through the whole thing because I avoid the terminal at all times and do things graphically
<safiyyah> so am not the best at terminal talk
<safiyyah> I also need to disable the guest account, I have a certain son of mine who wakes up at 5am to use the computer and play games
<safiyyah> while we are all alseep
<foobarry> askubuntu is a good site
<foobarry> and so is a stairgate on the kid's bedroom
<safiyyah> lol
<foobarry> ;)
<safiyyah> foobarry,  he is 9
<safiyyah> will just hop over
<foobarry> sorry, i saw 5
<daftykins> safiyyah: sorry was just on a game there
<foobarry> and thought 5yo
<daftykins> safiyyah: ok so are you in nano right now?
<safiyyah> 5am in the morning!!!
<safiyyah> yes
<safiyyah> daftykins yes
<daftykins> safiyyah: hmm actually if you would "pastebinit /etc/hosts" from another terminal it'd be handy
<safiyyah> already started changing it
<safiyyah> daftykins
<safiyyah> wondering how to save the changes
<daftykins> ah ok :)
<daftykins> ctrl+x
<safiyyah> "pastebinit /etc/hosts
<daftykins> then confirm the file name and hit enter
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8509691/
<daftykins> should break out and return to the prompt from before
<safiyyah> sorry that the old one
<daftykins> that's alright
<daftykins> just the one entry to change
<safiyyah> cool
<daftykins> now repeat for /etc/hostname
<safiyyah> this is the changed file
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8509703/
<daftykins> perfect
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8509709/
<safiyyah> new hostname
<safiyyah> I think I have to reboot for changes to take effect?
<safiyyah> let me get that guest account disables while am at it first
<safiyyah> as far a browsers go, are you guys still singing the praises for google chrome?
<safiyyah> or what is everyone using now?
<daftykins> i never personally did, though i've never used it on Linux
<daftykins> firefox all the way for me \o/
<daftykins> with those two files edited then, a restart should give you the name updated
<safiyyah> yes
<safiyyah> just getting rid of the guest account
<safiyyah> http://askubuntu.com/questions/451526/removing-guest-session-at-login-in-ubuntu-14-04
<safiyyah> thanks for teaching me about nano
<safiyyah> I would have been wondering what the hell it was just about now
<daftykins> haha, and that one actually tells you the commands... vi just makes my mind boggle
<daftykins> it's a text editor where even the command to quit the program involves hitting escape then writing :q! to quit without saving, i think
<zmoylan-pi> vi... is an adventure.  something you will eventually have to face and master :-)
<daftykins> never bothered to learn that one
<daftykins> have to? surely not ;)
<daftykins> i am a little concerned about the deprecation of gksu though
<zmoylan-pi> some day you'll find yourself on an unfamiliar system with only vi ;-)
<safiyyah> okay rebooting.... moment of truth
<zmoylan-pi> and it is a good editor with some great features if you can master them
<daftykins> i'm sure it is, but i just don't understand this mindset that wants to complicate even a text editor
<safiyyah> daftykins.... all done!
<safiyyah> no guest account too
<safiyyah> right now onto favourite packages etc, the fun bit.
<safiyyah> and a gnome desktop
<safiyyah> still cannot abide unity
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> what were you using, gnome3?
<safiyyah> gnome 3
<safiyyah> OMG youtube Adverts are loading!!!!!
<safiyyah> HELP HELP HELP
<safiyyah> I didn't have those before!!!!!
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> maybe you installed adblock
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> yes get rid of the blasted things!!!!
<arsenip> whatcha upto daftykins ?
<daftykins> arsenip: just got Forza Horizon 2 today for the xbone :D
<arsenip> oo
<arsenip> that's the one with a lambo hurracan in the ad?
<daftykins> i am painting my BMW Z4 :O
<arsenip> lol
<arsenip> good choice.
<arsenip> imola red.
<daftykins> could be yeah, orange thing? i'm not really up on cars but i enjoy the challenge
<daftykins> the new vibration feedback in the triggers is amazing O_O
<arsenip> orange is like some funky colour
<arsenip> if its a new Z4, (E89) you wont be able to do imola :(
<daftykins> i meant orange in the ad, but now i think about it, maybe it was yellow
<arsenip> it was yellow in the ad yeah.
<daftykins> ah yis
<arsenip> http://thesupercarkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/forza_horizon_2.jpg
<daftykins> arsenip: not sure if you saw my talk about how long the game took to install XD 36GB install from BD, 40 minutes
<safiyyah> daftykins, is there a reason why ubuntu if sticking with the window controls on the right instead of the left?
<daftykins> safiyyah: 'being different' i think is about as close to their official reason :D
<diddledan> wait, the window contropls are on the right again?
<daftykins> i don't even know. i don't use ubuntu as a desktop, much less with unity
<diddledan> I tend to rely on the availability of adobe photoshop for work so I am usually elsewhere than ubuntu when working and thus tend to stay elsewhere in my offtime
<diddledan> os x wins out unfortunately
<daftykins> i can't stand the window management in that OS
<diddledan> I'd love to immerse myself in ubuntu goodness but adobe software is kind-of a dealbreaker
<daftykins> or rather, mismangement :>
<safiyyah> lol
<daftykins> i know it's never the same nor even a good idea, but i heard PS support through WINE got vastly improved recently?
<safiyyah> PS?
<diddledan> well I'll be violated by monkey!: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=29832
<diddledan> it says it works
<diddledan> whoknew
<daftykins> arsenip: i think i've improved it from the default dark blue - https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3nf2wtrrbe7x2q/IMG_20141006_211939.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> safiyyah: Adobe Photoshop
<diddledan> there's a yoof with a sewing machine tied to a pair of wheels outside
<daftykins> diddledan: i did! :D
<diddledan> he's annoying me
<diddledan> aah, he just sped-off
<arsenip>  lol daftykins
<diddledan> "what does not: UI Tooltips (once a tooltip shows, it never disappears)"
<diddledan> that could end up annoying
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: can't have it all! but you're a pro so you use all the keyboard shortcuts right? :)
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> hey does anyone remember a couple of years ago when i said that opening linux to mainstream users will just lead to developer burnout?
<safiyyah> and did it?
<ali1234> yup
<ali1234> we had two meltdowns in the past week
<safiyyah> at the office or here?
<ali1234> on the internet
<ali1234> neither ubuntu developers however
<safiyyah> i think we can attribute the melt downs to modern life
<ali1234> nope
<safiyyah> need to reboot
<daftykins> ali1234: you know what this means
<daftykins> more devs needed
<ali1234> does it mean i was right all along?
<ali1234> well yeah, that was my whole point
<daftykins> oh ok
<ali1234> we need more devs if we are going to have more users
<daftykins> time to get recruiting!
<ali1234> specifically, if we drive away one developer for every ten users we gain, that is not a win
<ali1234> all that does is increase the workload for the developers who are left
<safiyyah> daftykins, sorry got carried away shopping for wallpaper. There was one that said 'your distro, your rules' can't find it!!! anyway..... when I log in there is no choice to switch to gnome
<safiyyah> i installed it!
<daftykins> safiyyah: hmm, i don't know how to switch sessions with lightdm i'm afraid
<Myrtti> ali1234: who? lennart and/or someone else?
<daftykins> perhaps one of these fine channel members can point you in the right direction
<ali1234> Myrtti: lennart and mjg
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> anyone?
<ali1234> you have to click a little arrow thing to open the advanced controls?
<ali1234> although lightdm has different "skins"
<safiyyah> nothing is going to sell unity to me ali
<safiyyah> nothing
<safiyyah> its crap and I dont like it
<ali1234> i agree totally
<ali1234> i can't stand unity or gnome
<directhex> i empathise with lennart, and 100% support mjg59
<Myrtti> mjg didn't stop intel bigfixing because of open source and linux people though
<safiyyah> lol ali1234  you are mr xfce?
<ali1234> safiyyah yes
<safiyyah> cant stand xfce either
<safiyyah> its better than unity
<directhex> i've been the villain for contributing to open source. i've had to explain to a therapist "yeah, there are websites dedicated to attacking me & driving me out of my hobby communities because i donate my free time in the wrong places"
<ali1234> xfce is not easy to use
<safiyyah> but I think I came onto linux in gutsy
<safiyyah> and fell for gnome
<safiyyah> and never fell out of love
<ali1234> it's not for everyone, but unlike unity and gnome it doesn't try to be
<directhex> Myrtti, they're the same people.
<ali1234> so we're perfectly okay with people not liking it :)
<directhex> Myrtti, try my browser extension, it helps add clarity to the issue
<safiyyah> okay am just installing gnome (again) for some reason it didn't install last time
<safiyyah> then am back on track with the clicking Ali
<safiyyah> and where is one to click exactly?
<ali1234> on the login screen there's should be like a ">" next to your user name
<ali1234> or it might point down, i don't remember
<ali1234> if you click it it opens some more options
<Myrtti> possibly, bu... what, huh, browser extension? uh, no. I try to keep both problems at arms length.
<daftykins> safiyyah: xfce has really come along in the last while, i have xubuntu installed on some old laptop somewhere and i find it lovely
<daftykins> none of the fancy effects on that one though i think, it's non-compositing?
<daftykins> if that's even the correct term.
<safiyyah> daftykins, I will check for xfce youtube videos and let you know now
<ali1234> directhex: do you remember the first time we ever spoke on irc?
<directhex> ali1234, no. i have little memory, short or long term.
<directhex> wouldn't mind if i was a pothead, at least there'd be a reason
<ali1234> well, i remember it, because you were extremely rude to me... and i was just trying to help you get your ps3 dvd remote to work
<safiyyah> ali1234, I can see why you are having a love affair with xfce
<safiyyah> completley customisable
<safiyyah> unity must feel like prison for you
<ali1234> safiyyah it feels more like a big ball of confusion... i have likened the unity window switcher to playing the shell game before
<ali1234> nothing is ever in the same place twice, it's like the computer is gas-lighting me
<directhex> ali1234, i don't remember the specifics, but it's entirely feasible. i'd like to think i've matured as the years have gone by. if i was unjustly abrasive, i'm sorry.
<directhex> i won't pretend that's not something i might have done. and we certainly rarely agree on things. but i don't think dickery is needed over disagreement.
<safiyyah> directhex I spilled my tea laughing at your very manly apology
<diddledan> directhex: language! instead of d**kery use "willy..ery"
<safiyyah> why cant it just be "I am sorry, can we start over" no... in true manly fashion, we must first explain what is right about us (in this case we have now matured),
<ali1234> directhex: thank you. apology accepted
<safiyyah> anyone else notice this about men
<safiyyah> ?
<directhex> safiyyah, i hadn't, but you could well be right.
<safiyyah> OMG! this gnome installation is going to take all night
<safiyyah> directhex, well atleast you made up :)
<directhex> safiyyah, i'd love to think that i benefit from being capable of introspection
<safiyyah> directhex, do not use that route to apologise to a woman, it will be percieved that you are trying to say that you did no wrong, and the 'wrong' is based on the woman's perception of the deed, in which case you are not really sorry
<safiyyah> and then the argument will continue
<safiyyah> because now the problem will be that you don't get what you did wrong....
<safiyyah> directhex, am not pointing at introspection, I sometimes just enjoy the differences between the genders, we are just very different.
<ali1234> i think another factor in all this is that the common enemy (microsoft) has now been defeated... and the anger is now turning in on itself
<directhex> safiyyah, ok. i took your comments as somewhat patronising. i've been married 8 years & know how to communicate with my wife when apologies are needed.
<safiyyah> directhex, am not in your marriage.... all due respect. I cannot comment on how well you do or do not do things there
<safiyyah> its a sacred union. You would know the best way around your wife
<safiyyah> I commented 'women' not 'wife'
<directhex> fair enough
<directhex> i should go to bed. a bottle of archers is not the best lens for discussion of some topics.
<safiyyah> sorry you felt patronised
<safiyyah> software centre seems to have crashed
<safiyyah> can I kill it and restart the install?
<safiyyah> ali1234,
<ali1234> no
<safiyyah> I have to leave it?
<ali1234> no, that won't work either
<ali1234> you have to figure out why it has frozen
<ali1234> it might have popped a requester under another window
<ali1234> or you might have another package manager open
<ali1234> or it might be the bug where it does this
<safiyyah> no
<safiyyah> none of the above
<safiyyah> it's grayed itself out
<ali1234> if you kill it, it may leave the system in an inconsistent state, so i wouldn't recommend it
<ali1234> you may have no choice though
<safiyyah> well I am trying to install gnome
<safiyyah> can't I kill it and reinstall the same thing?
<ali1234> maybe
<safiyyah> won't that fix the problem?
<ali1234> it will probably just get to the same point and then freeze again
<safiyyah> interesting point, the software centre just continued where it left off
<safiyyah> the marker was still showing half way
<ali1234> software center doesn't actually install anything, it is done by a background process
<safiyyah> it didnt restart the installation, just continued again
<ali1234> yes because you only killed the front end, not the background process
<ali1234> i bet it still won't finish though
<ali1234> or it might just take a really long time
<safiyyah> damn!
<safiyyah> it
<ali1234> who knows? software centre doesn't provide any feedback about what the installer is doing, so there's no way to tell
<safiyyah> it's starting to grey out again
<ali1234> there is a log somewhere which might reveal what is happening
<safiyyah> I think I have to purge all the files and start again
<safiyyah> question is what am I purging
<safiyyah> Oh!!!! it finished!
<safiyyah> wonder of wonders
<safiyyah> okay am calling it a night, got gnome going
<safiyyah> night all
<daftykins> nn
<daftykins> nice to hear from you again \o
<daftykins> http://twitch.tv/daftpunkle - doing a little bit of streaming of Forza Horizon 2
<daftykins> love that you can do this now :)
<safiyyah> daftykins, thank you so much for today!
<popey> daftykins: that koenigsegg looks fun â»
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> it sure was!
<popey> its amazing quality video streaming
<daftykins> that's good, this is the xbox one using the built in twitch streaming app
<daftykins> i'd been having issues recently but given i only have 5Mb upload it's pretty decent :)
<daftykins> no perceivable slowdown on the console, too
<popey> it was not much different than watching a locally recorded lets play
<popey> buffered a tiny bit now and then
<popey> not much
<ali1234> i tried to stream on twitch the other day but i only have 500kB upstream; it didn't really work very well
<ali1234> also i had to install the real ffmpeg to make open broadcaster work
<ali1234> other than that it was surprisingly easy to set up
<daftykins> neat :)
<daftykins> popey: ta for the feedback! :)
<ali1234> open broadcaster is a pretty nice app - it can composite a bunch of arbitrary video streams from multiple sources into a real time feed
<daftykins> is that the one i hear referred to as 'obs'?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> this game has good graphics
<daftykins> indeed! where it really shines, but hasn't come up in my game here yet... is the weather effects
<daftykins> they are absolutely jaw dropping
<ali1234> can you knock over trees?
<ali1234> the lighting is beautiful but i'm guessing most of it is baked?
<daftykins> trees tend to be immovable, but shrubs and bushes etc are quite destructible this time
<ali1234> ah... but do they have nice shadows? ;)
<daftykins> case in point 8D
<daftykins> (several seconds delay in the feed of course)
<ali1234> somewhat difficult to tell. i think that the sign post had a dynamic shadow though
<daftykins> aww i saw a great zela (or rather Link) thing to put on the side of my car earlier
<daftykins> it looked muchly amusing :>
<daftykins> (i'm not really into ricing up cars)
<ali1234> find one that says "yoloswag" or something
<ali1234> isn't that basically the mitsubishi logo?
<daftykins> triforce :D from Zelda also
<daftykins> ah what, it messed up O_O
<ali1234> are there other people driving around in your game that see your car?
<ali1234> if so, how do they prevent you painting offensive things on it?
<daftykins> at present the other drivers are 'driveatars' based upon game data from people on my friends list or other randomers
<daftykins> eventually, i'll be able to get online and be in freeroam public sessions where others would see them yep
<daftykins> haha i don't think they have, i'd imagine there might be an attempt at worded profanity but no ideas on prevention of it
<ali1234> does it save in the cloud? do you see your friend's car designs even though they're not actually driving the ai car in your game?
<daftykins> yep - one of my friends i've seen driving around in this car but with one of the designs from the marketplace
<daftykins> (you can make and sell them, with in-game currency)
<daftykins> just virtually earnt through racing i believe, no actual in-game purchasing
<ali1234> if you make a really good design you can sell it to other players?
<daftykins> yip! let me have a quick look at the market
<daftykins> so i saw a friend driving around in this one earlier
<ali1234> that's crazy!
<daftykins> lol at this design
<daftykins> aww boo i failed
<ali1234> seems like the RNG got you that time
<ali1234> if that other car hadn't been turning left...
<daftykins> *nod* pesky traffic
<daftykins> couldn't correct in time
<ali1234> and now you're offline
<daftykins> ah :( perhaps it has decided to flake out still
<daftykins> it seems i'm not getting the full effect as only two friends have played the demo so far, not bought it
<ali1234> ah you're back
<daftykins> oddly i found it had quit the twitch app, so i had to kick it into action again
<daftykins> i think it's time to stop for tonight now though :D
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-07
<jimmy_> Hello
<jimmy_> Any one here
<jimmy_> I'm installing gentoo but ...
<jimmy_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8511835/
<jimmy_> I need help~
<safiyyah> Morning all, having trouble deleting thunderbird. Anyone around?
<popey> why do you want to delete thunderbird?
<popey> (morning btw)
<safiyyah> morning popey! Your xorg.conf file saved the day  yet again for me :)
<safiyyah> popey because thunderbird is annoying. Just need evolution
<popey> heh
<popey> i have them both installed but just don't use thunderbird
<zmoylan-pi> evolution is never annoying :-p
<zmoylan-pi> i used to love thunderbird
<zmoylan-pi> then it got s.l.o...w......
<Myrtti> I hate the chat feature with a passion
<safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, i lovE evolution
<safiyyah> it's the thunderbird I want to be rid of
<safiyyah> I keep removing it in the software centre
<safiyyah> and the thing is not going
<safiyyah> Googled up purge and some people said it caused problems
<safiyyah> so am here for help
<popey> i personally wouldn't remove it
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Frappe Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<safiyyah> popey, never mind.... it came off!!!! yeii
<safiyyah> popey. there are some software pieces that do nothing but annoy a person
<safiyyah> and make you want to scream at them
<safiyyah> thunderbird is one for me!
<awilkins> I don't really like either Thunderbird or Evolution much
<zmoylan-pi> evolution annoys me but does what i want for now
<awilkins> We need a more Google-mail-ish fat email client
<zmoylan-pi> i can see myself moving to mutt or alpine in the future
<awilkins> The whole mail folder concept is so last century
<zmoylan-pi> and on my android tablet keep promising to stop using the google gmail client as it sucks
<awilkins> Big mail store + labels 4tw
<zmoylan-pi> i'm fine with folders, good enough for the victorians... :-)
<safiyyah> I think they will need to look at like a googlemail merging thing in the end
<diplo> awilkins, colleague here uses Rouncube day in and out on his local machine
<diplo> Works for him
<awilkins> diplo, But it has PHP cooties!
<diplo> :P
 * jussi waves to the channel
<popey> lo
<popey> congrats!
<jussi> thanks popey!!
<jussi> first bit of time to myself for ages...
<jussi> I actually slept last night, thanks to my daughter actually not waking up :)
<jussi> and the boy is a good sleeper, surprisingly :)
<popey> directhex: that venn stone guy doesn't seem very pleasant
 * davmor2 fraps JamesTai1 with a wet kipper
<davmor2> JamesTai1: also why the 1 ;)
 * JamesTai1 sighs
<JamesTait> Thanks for the heads-up, davmor2.  Apparently I got disconnected at 10:43.  I could have sworn my alt nick was JamesTait_ though.
<davmor2> JamesTait: haha no worries :)
<ikonia> hail hex
<directhex> hi ikonia
<selinuxium_> Hi all  o/
<selinuxium_> Anyone here had any experience of jobscheduler?
<popey> wow, the rest of those linux game cast guys are pretty nasty too
<selinuxium_> 'lo popey, directhex
<popey> yo
<selinuxium_> popey, you looked liek you were having fun at Oggcamp... I must get to one someday..
<directhex> sick of the toxicity in *both* communities i thoght i was part of
<popey> yeah
<awilkins> Urrgh, really? There are #gamersgate pillocks in the Linux community?
<ali1234> personally i'm sick of being blamed for what essentially amounts to a feud between about four people, both sides of which are awful manipulative scum, and which normal rational people are entirely capable of not joining in on
<directhex> awilkins, gamergate is a front. people with shared causes form part of both linux & gamer communities.
<czajkowski> popey: saw this and thought of you! http://www.panmacmillan.com/book/bencrystal/yousaypotato?id=38
<popey> heh
<popey> they're all wrong, it's "potato"
<davmor2> popey: this is how most people say potato, Chips
<zmoylan-pi> spud is a less ambiguous word as in america chips means something completely different :-)
<popey> maybe up north where you live â»
<zmoylan-pi> i live in the south, in the good old irish free state :-D
 * popey was talking to davmor2 â»
<zmoylan-pi> apoligies, carry on :-)
 * awilkins also live Up North but is from Down South.
<davmor2> popey: no I bet more people say crisps and chips than say potato nowadays :P
<zmoylan-pi> no fans of smash? :-)
<awilkins> ewwww
<awilkins> Smash is wallpaper paste that got rejected because it wouldn't hold the wallpaper up
<safiyyah> popey, daftykins, I rebooted the system and well, the graphics broke!!!
<popey> my kids like smash
<popey> but i never buy it
<safiyyah> sorry I pressed exit by mistake
<safiyyah> right I have horrid graphics again!!!!
<safiyyah> the nvidia drivers seem to have magically disappeared
<safiyyah> popey, sorry am stuck
<safiyyah> i can't find restricted extras
<safiyyah> and no nvidia drivers either
<safiyyah> something has gone
<safiyyah> and I know what I did, I was changing the gdm wallpaper and it broke!
<popey> you removed unity and thunderbird, and added gnome shell?
<safiyyah> oh I found nvidia......
<safiyyah> yes I did
<safiyyah> i didnt remove unity
<safiyyah> its still there
<safiyyah> only thunderbird
<safiyyah> I have an option to log in with unity or gnome, I can choose
<safiyyah> no need to delete unity
<safiyyah> so I found Nvidia, so the issue is the settings.... this has happened before
<safiyyah> I think 2 years ago
<safiyyah> we had to do something to X
<safiyyah> popey, On the Nvidia X Server Settings it says that ' Unable to load X Server Display Configuration page: The NVIDIA X driver on safiyyah:0.0 is not new
<safiyyah> enough to support the nvidia-settings Display
<safiyyah> Popey, my notes say the 173 driver is the right one and all others don't work because my card is Nvidia Geforce 8400
<popey> sorry, I'm a bit busy at the moment.
<safiyyah> popey, shall I wait or come back at a different time?
<popey> probably better off asking in #ubuntu
<safiyyah> okay
<diplo> https://jobs-williamsf1.icims.com/jobs/1806/it-infrastructure-technician-%28race-team%29/job?in_iframe=1
<diplo> Tempted :)
<brobostigon> :)
<awilkins> diplo, It's a Microsoft job
<awilkins> eww
<diplo> But it's F1! :)
<diplo> I get to go around the world
<awilkins> You get to go around the world MAINTAINING WINDOWS SERVER
<awilkins> :'-(
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: But that's what's so good. You *have* to go to parts forgein as remote access is so poor on Windows. If it were Linux, you'd just SSH and stay in the basement.
<brobostigon> and spend more time with Wife/GF/partner.
<diplo> Or go to foreign countries to get away from above :)
<brobostigon> that has been known, yes.
<TwistedLucidity> I wonder when the first F1 car will have to retire as it blue-screened.
<TwistedLucidity> Or "Clippy: It looks like you are trying to race..."
<brobostigon> lol
<awilkins> I thought about taking a contract in Qatar for i) Lots of moolah and ii) getting away from wife
<awilkins> But there was iii) getting away from daughter, which is much less desirable
<diplo> awilkins, that would be my biggest issue ( have significant other ) but do have 2 boys
<diplo> I have no significant other*
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: it looks like you are exceeding the speed limit, let me help you slow down
<davmor2> just hear the race driver weeping into the mic in his helmet
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Also, iv) It's Qatar.
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: This F1 car is not activated, would you like to activate now?
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Yeah, the whole "We take your passport away until we are sure your contract is over" thing... no thanks. And no thanks to the whole demonization of women thing.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I will assume you are coming from a Western country and are white. Your passport will not be taken. That kind of behaviour is reserved for the slaves they kill building stadia.
<TwistedLucidity> I used to live in the M.E., a greater disparity in wealth and treatment of humans is hard to imagine.
<foobarry> mile end?
<foobarry> since that statement is very true
<foobarry> hobbits, desolation and smog
<awilkins> Middle East
<marshmn> grrr... why don't Lenovo make any nice 15" ThinkPads these days? :/
<marshmn> worried that 14" might feel too small
<DJones> marshmn: I've got an outstanding Lenovo Y510P which I'm pretty sure is 15.6", may not be a thinkpad, but works out of the box with 14.04
<DJones> marshmn: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/y-series/y510p/
<marshmn> DJonesj: thanks, good to know - I've been slightly avoiding those for a few reasons (they have nvidia chipset rather than Intel graphics so always slightly worried about things like suspend working well and so on, also somewhat heavier than some of the higher end ThinkPads, also lacking the nipple...)
<marshmn> but it's still of interest
<marshmn> do you find the graphics chipset works fine?
<marshmn> no issues with suspend/hibernate etc?
<DJones> marshmn: Its got dual graphics, but has been 100% solid using nvidia-prime
<DJones> I never use suspend/hibernate, if I'm away for any length of time I shut down, waiting a minute to power on isn't an issue for me
<DJones> I'd be surprised if suspend/hibernate was much quicker
<marshmn> it's not really the time to boot it saves - more the time to start up all my apps again etc
<DJones> It doesn't have and SSD,  so that may slow things down slightly, but a few seconds/minutes isn't an issue for me, I always prefer to start app's fresh each boot so I know whats going on, rather than something from a week or so ago  coming back to haunt me
<DJones> I work on the idea that if I need something running, I wouldn't let it shut down/sleep/hibernate etc anyway
<DJones> I use it as a home machine, nothing I run is mission critical so it doesn't matter when something gets shut down
<marshmn> that's fair enough, not saying you're wrong, just doesn't fit with my workflow in past experience
<DJones> Th18:44              >>> GaboXandre!~GaboXandr@unaffiliated/gabriel1
<DJones> 18:44              >>> Guest42084!~patrick@185.39.90.84
<DJones> stupid pastebin
<marshmn> I don't want to have to restart all my dev tools, IDE, virtual machines etc etc when I'm moving from coffee shop to home etc
<DJones> Thats what I thought, its not important to me, I use apps as a user (and then desktop apps only), so nothing like you may need
<marshmn> yeah, fair enough - everyone has their own requirements/workflows :)
<DJones> Definately, I'm probably the odd one out here, I don't need dev tools etc, I use Ubuntu as a user, browsing, email, torrents, office apps etc, nothing tech based
<foobarry> android tablet running horrifically slow
<foobarry> has 4gb free space
<safiyyah> has the gnome configurations manager in 14.04 moved? like I seriously can't find it and no luck with google
<zmoylan-pi> how many apps are running foobarry?
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi: shut a few down
<foobarry> typing etc still lags
<foobarry> lags at boot up tbh
<zmoylan-pi> do a reboot?
<zmoylan-pi> can be a lag at bootup due to thundering herd of apps and services starting at same time
<foobarry> just installed task manager
<foobarry> 144mb free
<foobarry> ram
<zmoylan-pi> that would do it :-)
<foobarry> 0 is bad 100mb is  ok
<foobarry> 258mb free
<foobarry> task killer lied
<foobarry> still laggy]
<zmoylan-pi> some recent app installed causing the slowdown?
<foobarry> dunno, belongs to the wife
<foobarry> gonna ask her to purge some apsp
<foobarry> and then put cyanogen on if it persists
<foobarry> or maybe factory reset
<diddledan> my nexus7 is dog slow, too
<ali1234> my nexus 7 got really slow recently as well
<diddledan> mine is almost unusable
<diddledan> I haven't a clue why it's only the last while that it's been like it
<diddledan> chrome takes forever to open and even when it is opening a tab takes another age
<diddledan> and then I need to get it to respond to my typing to get an address into it
<diddledan> the cynic in me might suggest it's deliberate in order to make L appear really fast (should it be released for the 2012 model)
<safiyyah> is anyone about?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-08
<ali1234> does anyone know if the xorg developer conference has a live stream?
<OERIAS> Tea Time
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> moin brobostigon
<brobostigon> guten morgen Myrtti
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Todays tune is a mix of I got the power, park life and bitter sweet symphony
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> i got the park life, thats life
<awilkins> Where does Evolution keep it's config?
<foobarry> .local/share/evolution?
<awilkins> Hummph
<awilkins> Can't seem to delete it
<awilkins> I guess it pulls accounts from the accounts things
<foobarry> kill the evolution data server?
<foobarry> lsof ?
<awilkins> Ah
<awilkins> Ok, that's annoying, added a new account and it doesn't show up until you kill the evolution processes
<foobarry> i don't think evolution has evolved in about 10yrs
<zmoylan-pi> ironic really :-)
<awilkins> It won't log in anyway
 * awilkins logs in with Outlook to check if he's locked his account out with Basic when he should have used NTLM
<awilkins> Not locked out
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Octopus Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> donate a squid today to help
<Myrtti> there is some files in .config
<diddledan_> I had sick squid once
<diddledan_> I spent it on sweets
<awilkins> Well, the EWS plugin for Evolution doesn't work for me, and I'm leaving this Exchange-based job in 3 weeks anyway
<awilkins> Thus ends my most recent flirtation with Evolution as a mail client
<davmor2> JamesTait: does that mean we all have an excuse to see roger moore fly a plane from a horse butt again?
<foobarry> as an adult i realised that roger moore is the most wooden actor ever
<foobarry> as a child i thought he was cool
<JamesTait> davmor2, what you do in your spare time is your business. ;)
<zmoylan-pi> last time i was condemned to use outlook i just made it forward all email to gmail and got gmail to spoof outgoing email as from the outlook domain.  cut down on the driving me bonkers
<zmoylan-pi> i used to quite like outlook express as it didn't get in the way
<foobarry> lots of jobs going. who wants one?
<foobarry> windows, linux, storage, vmware, hpc,
<foobarry> https://www.hpc.qmul.ac.uk/twiki/bin/view/HPC/VacantPosts
<Laney> who manages freenode cloaks? #freenode?
<Laney> I noticed that I'm pdpc.active still ...
<jussi> Laney: I think so
<dutchie> Laney: yeah
<Laney> oh hey jussi, congrats ;-)
<jussi> hi Laney! thanks!
<Laney> how's it going?
<dutchie> strange coincidence, i just ditched my pdpc supporter cloak
<jussi> tired, but good :)
<Myrtti> last time I was condemned to use Exchange and had to use Evolution, when I was finally released from the pain, I fell on my knees of gratitude and got palm sized bruises on them
<popey> mmmm palm
<jussi> Laney: hows things over there?
<Laney> tickin' over
<Laney> been trying to buy a house for ages
<Laney> beer festival on friday \o/
<Laney> http://www.beerfestival.nottinghamcamra.org/Assets_pdf/BF2014_Beer_Prog_Notes.pdf
<jussi> Laney: yay! beer!
<Laney> actually it starts today, tempted to have a preview ...
<jussi> Laney: :D
<jussi> hullo popey :)
<popey> yo
<directhex> wife has ordered her new tablet. total cost: Â£1.75
<directhex> tesco hudl's economics make no sense
<zmoylan-pi> you spend a lot in tescos then
<zmoylan-pi> so they already made their money and it was rsting in their accounts, unless the tax man came looking of course :-)
<popey> directhex: is that the new x86 one?
<directhex> yes
<popey> iiiinteresting
<NET||abuse> hmm, having trouble compiling gource, fairly standard setup, just keep getting configure: error: Could not link against -lGLU !
<popey> be interested to try and get ubuntu on one of them
<zmoylan-pi> what's the battery life like?
<zmoylan-pi> you just hear x86 and you can imagine the battery gauge dropping as you look at it
<popey> directhex: is that with lots of tesco points or something
<directhex> popey: yes
<popey> heh
<popey> do you know who makes them for tesco?
<zmoylan-pi> and now they can monitor your browsing habits and target you better :-)
<directhex> popey: there's a 2:1 gearing on clubcard vouchers when buying hudl or accessories, so Â£129 cash or Â£64.50 clubcard vouchers
<directhex> popey: i believe it's top secret.
<directhex> (archos)
<directhex> well, archos made hudl 1 anyway, afaik
<directhex> ( http://www.archos.com/corporate/press/press_releases/archos_OEM_STRATEGY_en.pdf )
<NET||abuse> what's the best tablet going right now? If I weren't to get a nexus 7, what would I get, or is it just stick with the nexus 7?
<NET||abuse> not too fussed about size, 7,8 or 10" is all fine
<zmoylan-pi> i'm quite happy with asus 7" i got from argos cheap
<NET||abuse> I had the old nexus7 model, but it got crushed in my hand luggage on a flight :(
<directhex> NET||abuse: best full stop, or best on a given budget, or best for a given use case?
<NET||abuse> directhex, yeh, i had a feeling that would be the reality of it:(  what's the best full sstop?
<NET||abuse> then i'll think about budget :)
<NET||abuse> sticking with android too
<directhex> everyone still loves ipads, right?
<directhex> rumour is there's a new htc-made nexus tablet coming soon
<NET||abuse> haha, burn the mac's!
<Myrtti> I certainly hope it's coming soon
<Myrtti> I've already told my niece to hold on to her money and instead of getting a non-Retina iPad Mini wait until that Nexus Tablet is out
<directhex> i can't argue with hudl economics, even if it sucks
<zmoylan-pi> my only must haves for a tablet are memory card slot, a case to put it in, 7+ hour battery life, gps
<NET||abuse> hard to decide on what to do.
<NET||abuse> the rumours say new nexus THIS month!
<NET||abuse> nice
<TwistedLucidity> Can the hudl be rooted/hacked?
<TwistedLucidity> NET||abuse: But it's HTC...yuck.
<NET||abuse> TwistedLucidity, the first htc desires were some of my favourite phones.. will have to wait and se
<NET||abuse> the htc one didn't quite hit the spec points but ultimately people seemed possitive on it's build quality
<TwistedLucidity> I have an HTC Desire X. Piece of garbage. Various broken account/DAV implementations and no updates. It's so bad, I will try to avoud any NTC products in the future.
<NET||abuse> TwistedLucidity, well, hopefully the software side is purely driven by google.
<awilkins> Indeed ; HTC hardware isn't bad
<awilkins> The ex-wife has a Desire Z
<awilkins> It's lasted her years
<awilkins> Daughter has a Hudl 1
<popey> haha, hudle works out at Â£39 for me
<foobarry> in vouchers?
<foobarry> hmm. was gonna spend my vouchers on rac recovery
<popey> yeah, 129 -> 39
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> hudl 2?
<popey> yes
<awilkins> I'm happy with my 2012 N7
<awilkins> I'd really only consider a Hudl if it was Cyanogen-able
<foobarry> i will get a hudl when my hp touchpad dies
<popey> ditto ubuntu-able
<awilkins> And my N7 was broken or the battery life was so degraded that it made me want to cry
<foobarry> my wifes samsung galaxy 10.1 is so slow
<Myrtti> I should CM my 2012
<Myrtti> although I suspect most of the problem is due to 2.4GHz wifi
<foobarry> i wish it was easier to decrapify android
<awilkins> If they don't release official Android L for my N4 and N7 I probably will CM them
<Myrtti> awilkins: they won't
<foobarry> android is nearer windows than linux
<Myrtti> the cycle has been two years
<awilkins> Myrtti, Yeah, I hate that... especially since I hear they are testing it on N4s inside Mountain View.
<awilkins> Myrtti, But marketroids will be marketroids
<zmoylan-pi> well you add java to anything and performace is going to drop :-)
<awilkins> There's no technical reason not to - L is supposed to improve performance a lot, and they already have all the kernel drivers
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, The new execution environment is supposed to take care of that by doing AOT compiles instead of JIT
<Myrtti> I wish the application developers would give ART some love too
<foobarry> daughter took her first steps \o/
<christel> \o/
<christel> hooray
<foobarry> about time
<foobarry> she's 19 months
<foobarry> suddenly she stood up and took 2 steps towards me. "WIFEY I THINK ITS TIME!"
<christel> :)
<foobarry> then she did a performance for the phone
 * christel claps
<christel> clever girl!
<Seeker`> Does anyone have any recommendations for a colo service near oxford?
<foobarry> got a building question
<foobarry> does anyone know about submitting to building control?
<foobarry> talks about full plans and building notice. nor sure which one i am supposed to do
<brobostigon> any ideas, i am getitng a "500 ssl read timeout" in irssi, ?
 * popey wonders if directhex is watching https://evolve.xamarin.com/live
 * brobostigon is watching nick clegg talking.
<popey> pfft
<directhex> popey: i am now
<popey> he has nothing remotely interesting to say
<brobostigon> i said exactly that, about cameron last week.
<Seeker`> you could say that about all politicians
<brobostigon> varies, some do, some dont.
<Seeker`> Boris is ok
<Seeker`> on HIGNFY
 * awilkins also listening to Clegg
<awilkins> Boris is an evil sod that plays the amiable buffoon well
<brobostigon> i saw a good nickname in private eye for my local mp, a few weeks ago, sir tony baldrick.
<zmoylan-pi> isn't baldrick enough of a curse?
<brobostigon> i can think of better. :)
<brobostigon> remeber when baldrick stood as an mp, in a rotten borough? it was clearly inspired by that.
<Seeker`> baldrick was PM
<brobostigon> the current PM ?
<Seeker`> didn't you see Blackadder Back and Forth?
<brobostigon> yes, i did. i was pulling a joke.
<brobostigon> comparingour current PM to baldrick.
<zmoylan-pi> and baldrick as mp was black adder iii
<zmoylan-pi> pfft, philistines :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> stood against william pitt.
<zmoylan-pi> and still not as funny as yes minister for understanding politics :-D
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> agreed.
<brobostigon> and its sequal.
<Seeker`> The Thick of It was better :P
<awilkins> Does this work on Chromium or is it missing some vital evil DRM thing? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/08/netflix-linux-html5-support-plugins
<davmor2> Seeker`: wibble
<davmor2> Seeker`: Yes minister was funnier though
<dutchie> awilkins: it is missing some vital evil drm thing
<awilkins> dutchie, Yeah, that was the conclusion I came to
<awilkins> No "WidevineCDM"
<dutchie> real chrome works fine
<awilkins> Installing the standard vessel of evil that is Chrome
<awilkins> Might have to tickle libnss
<dutchie> shouldn't have to
<dutchie> it works fine for me with the UA tweak
<awilkins> Yeah, I heard the update was getting put into trusty-updates
<awilkins> And holy cow it worked
<popey> directhex: that was super interesting stuff
<popey> directhex: lusting after some of that stuff on ubuntu now ã
<directhex> popey: for app dev, yeah. i can't see some of those deep analytics things being popular in FOSS, but for the end user, "i know exactly where & why your app crashed, i just uploaded a fix" without user intervention is super nice
<popey> yeah, for enterprise apps, very much so
<directhex> not sure how much other in-the-oven newness is being announced at Evolve, given the keynote's over
<DJones> Myrtti: Do you remember a conversation a month or so back about google streetview cameras being used in museums etc? How this...Google Camelview...http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/29540190 Must be interesting seeing miles & miles of sand dunes
<Myrtti> cool
<zmoylan-pi> must be interesting image stabilisation?
 * zmoylan-pi awaits the day some person who wants to be very rich releases a tiny cheap gps/wifi ssid location that'll hang on a cats collar and charge upload images wirelessly :-)
<ali1234> alreday been done
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen cameras but not low intervention (wireless charging and uploading) so it requires depending on the cat some effort to put on and take off
<zmoylan-pi> i still have scars from changing one cats flea collars from 30 years ago :-)
<daftykins> hmm, the game 'Dragon Age - Origins' is free on EA's nasty 'Origin' game client right now
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2nuxf4uw8sk8nz/originsfromorigin.png?dl=0
<daftykins> a platform that claims my 40Mb tubes can pull down at this speed 0o
<popey> which SSD do we generally recommend these days?
<popey> Still Intel?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Samsung are good too. And Crucial's M500 range (though that might be old, check for their newest)
<davmor2> popey: Samsung
<directhex> M550 is current
<directhex> i'm looking at a Sandisk in my next machine. wife has sandisk currently
<directhex> there are not many 1T black-and-red SSDs.
<popey> dangerously close to buying this telly http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00HZAVAC0
<davmor2> popey: this is obviously what you want http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-UE40HU6900-inch-Smart-Built/dp/B00JWTVSQU ;)
<popey> lolz
<davmor2> popey: is that a no?  just image the gfx improvement you would see on minecraft ;)  /me waits for the long string of lolz :D
<popey> heh
<foobarry> arrrgh
<foobarry> getting an extension is stressful
<popey> why do all TV's have only 2 HDMI
<foobarry> so much technical stuff i don't understand
<Azelphur> Thanks EA https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=91dcb0ad261c2801ce58e33974e57a4a
<Myrtti> coz you're supposed to have a AVR that you plug your things into and you plug that into the tv
<popey> our local cinema is being made out of minecraft blocks https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10710895_10202697903113777_7732062336306266502_n.jpg?oh=42bf4b4ce0cf32671eb4c3f5967471d3&oe=54B394FE
<davmor2> popey: nice
<popey> decided to hold back for a bit
<diddledan> kill all the usb: http://blog.lumension.com/9442/unpatchable-badusb-malware-code-is-now-publicly-available
<ali1234> remember to also kill any PS/2 keyboard port as well, since they have exactly the same vulnerability
<ali1234> namely, that you can plug a keyboard in to them
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-09
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> Any one done the linux foundation ubuntu exam?
<diplo> Morning MooDoo, I've not but have debated doing it a few times
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah I'm thinking about doing it now...I noticed there was an ubuntu optionm
<diplo> Let me know if you do, may do it at the same time :)
<MooDoo> hehe yeah ok :) $300 :S
<diplo> That's my biggest issue is the cost, work don't do any sort of courses ever
<diplo> Guys who have been here 20 years still haven't done one course :/
<SuperMatt> what kind of course?
<MooDoo> I've saved for it, so luckily I have the money for it already
<SuperMatt> a linux course
<SuperMatt> I've done many
<SuperMatt> and it looks like I'll be doing my rhcsa for rhel 7 before the year is out
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: nice :)
<diplo> I'd like to do my RHCE as well
<MooDoo> me three :D
<MooDoo> linux foundation exam first though
<SuperMatt> tbh, might as well jump straight in to rhel and forget foundation because the rhel exam proves you can do it
<diplo> but the RHEL is Â£1200 ish ?
<MooDoo> yeah
<MooDoo> seen this diplo http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/100-off-linux-foundation-certification-for-ubuntu-members/1915
<MooDoo> diplo: if you're an ubuntu member
<diplo> I saw a post didn't read it
<MooDoo> $100 off the linux profession exam if you're an ubuntu member
<diplo> Not a member though :/
<MooDoo> diplo: no me neither
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Fire Prevention Day! :-D
<foobarry> i move offices today \o/
<foobarry> out of the windowless basement
<foobarry> into the skies
<JamesTait> foobarry, you're moving offices?
<foobarry> 3 flights upstairs
<foobarry> 6th desk move in 2 yrs
<foobarry> i haz 6crates+ to move :S
 * davmor2 sets a fire so he can put it out to celebrate
<awilkins> www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
<awilkins> The link-comment-bot is dead then
<JamesTait> foobarry, you keep your offices in crates in the windowless basement? Are they heavy?
<SuperMatt> I'm going to be changing desks on monday
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> greetings carbon based lifeforms
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon zmoylan-pi :) how are you both today?
<zmoylan-pi> pondering coffee...
<MooDoo> ooo good plan
<zmoylan-pi> and for an encore some form of choccy biccie to enhance the coffee experience
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah I'm ok thanks, can't believe it's nearly 11am already.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :). yes times flies fast sometimes.
<zmoylan-pi> so a meeting free zone then? :-)
<MooDoo> already had my meetings lol
<zmoylan-pi> did you sleep through them making them go faster? :-)
<MooDoo> unfortunately not, it was regarding a bloomin heavy ups
<zmoylan-pi> is there any ups that doesn't weigh a tonne?
<brobostigon> i suspect not.
<popey> late brekkie \o/
<popey> scrambled egg with flakes of chilli on a toasted bagel
<popey> nomety nom
<popey> I feel 1,000,000 times better!
<DJones> Sheesh, I hate phone calls when staff ring up complaining the deductions from wages are too much and what can they do about it
<dutchie> popey: ooh that sounds tasty
<DJones> All I could say was invent a time machine, travel back in time a few years and have a vasectomy, then the Child support agency wouldn't be chasing him
<zmoylan-pi> emigrate?
 * MooDoo is looking at having mexican for tea, not sure what to make though
<DJones> MooDoo: Gold tequila in a pint glass
<MooDoo> DJones: oh dear....
<Myrtti> DJones: if you cry into the pint you have the salt trim too
<DJones> Nice thought
<MooDoo> hmmm pint, that sounds good
<davmor2> Morning all, Todays tune is Tubular bells
<MooDoo> ooo forgot about that...
<davmor2> MooDoo: and now it's in your head too, you're welcome, and 2 slightly distorted guitars
<MooDoo> davmor2: i just happen to be on spotify, so it's on now
<MooDoo> although web player on ubuntu never works quite right for me.
<MooDoo> everyone enjoy oggcamp then?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I just have the webpage open seems fine here
<MooDoo> yeah it seems to be a pain when i view my music
<popey> yeah, exhausted
<MooDoo> looked once again a great event
<popey> yeah, it was great
<popey> saturday night i think we spent about 5 hours straight playing games
<Laney> MooDoo: you going beer fest?
<Laney> sorry beer and cider fest
<Laney> (the wrath of camra)
<MooDoo> Laney: aren't the tickets sold out now?
<Laney> yep
<MooDoo> then no :D
<Laney> fail
<MooDoo> to be honest totally forgot about it,
<MooDoo> never really liked it since it moved from victoria baths.
<Laney> I think it has good roamability at the castle
<Laney> does get pretty packed
<zmoylan-pi> and more equipped to keep out the gate crashers? :-p
<Laney> you could totally climb up the rock
<Laney> ...
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: when it was at the baths, there wasn't gate crashers, it was more respectable and smaller, now it's just commercialised nonsense
<Laney> wow
<MooDoo> gumblemode off
<Laney> I think they just moved to a bigger venue because it was too popular to fit there
<MooDoo> ah i'm just a grumpy so and so....lol miss my faggots and chips lol
 * zmoylan-pi eyes beans on toast for lunch
<MooDoo> i see the ubuntu uk page on facebook hasn't been updated since nov 2013 lol
<popey> Yeah,. pffft facebook, who uses _that_!?
<awilkins> I think it's a well-recognised truth that Facebook uses *you*....
<zmoylan-pi> if the page is unupdated, maybe it's because it's getting no engagement on facebook
<Laney> I signed up to ello yesterday
<zmoylan-pi> not the 1st place i think of when i think of technical/tech curious people
<awilkins> Some of us signed up to Ello
<awilkins> It's comedically awful hipstercode
<zmoylan-pi> only one i use is twitter and i can see myself giving up on that
<awilkins> I like Twitter, I don't like their official Android client any more, because it has permissions creeop
<zmoylan-pi> oh and diaspora as it's super geeky
<awilkins> Any recommendations for an OSS twitter client for Android?
<zmoylan-pi> plume is what i use on android, ads are annoying but it's like tweetdeck used to be
<foobarry> i use plume because multi accounts but the ads are really annoying
<foobarry> and the premium vrsion is too expensive
<popey> I have a british problem
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2ir3zk/the_man_from_the_electricty_board_is_sheltering/
<MooDoo> just open the door, make him move and say "good Day"
<Myrtti> take him a cup of tea
<Myrtti> I almost offered a mug to the DPD courier that brought the new toner cartridge
<MooDoo> I work next door to a dpd in nottingham so easy to get parcels delivered to me, in fact i go collect them :D
<zmoylan-pi> as you leave hand him a cheap umberella?
<knightwise> hey MooDoo Myrtti zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> hey knightwise
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise how are you on this fine day
<knightwise> doing ok :) Working from home today .. Work laptop on the left , linux laptop on the right .. you know how it is
<MooDoo> yeah, work laptop on the left, home laptop on my right
<directhex> here i am
<zmoylan-pi> laptop in front of me,  sshed into the pi behind me :-p
<directhex> stuck in the middle with an ipad
<knightwise> haha :) I'm working on a macbook air .. So
<knightwise> running 14.04
<Myrtti> Finland has postal ninjas that come to the door, supposedly knock, then leave after scribbling a note that a parcel didn't fit through and nobody was at home.
<MooDoo> nice, just installed 14.04 this morning on mine, thinking about doing the upgrade to 14.10 seeing as it's about 3 weeks away
<Myrtti> We, however, seem to have a postal troll.
<knightwise> belgian postal office workers get stuck licking stamps from time to time
<knightwise> they are so slow the glue dries halfway through the lick
<Myrtti> one came about today, fiddled around the mail hatch, fiddled with the lid, left. Went to check: no mail.
<knightwise> lid-fiddlers ...
<knightwise> pervo's !
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, it's getting to the point you need a grid of detection lasers to notice the postal ninjas :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or a bear trap
<diplo> Postal guy for me is an old friend, and all other deliveries I get sent to work so win win for me
<diplo> + he lives about 200 yards up the road as well + I get post once a fornight if that \o/
<christel> i like living in the sticks -- the postman asked if he could sign for my parcels and leave them in my back porch if i was out <3
<MooDoo> that sounds awesoem
<MooDoo> living in the sticks rocks
<knightwise> I've made a promise to buy all my tech stuff online this year
<knightwise> no more impulse buying in the shop
<MooDoo> knightwise: how long will that last lol
<knightwise> been going pretty well actually
<knightwise> I allmost bought a chromebook .. thought about it , researched it .. and decided not to
<MooDoo> yay
<knightwise> we also cut the cord and canceled out cable subscription 2 months ago and thats going fine too
<knightwise> i'm realy trying to become more aware when i'm being "herded" into buying something i dont need
<MooDoo> wow, i must admin everything online that I used i cancelled, the only think I can think I have is netflix
<knightwise> saying goodbye to Radio and Tv helps a lot in that account.
<knightwise> MooDoo: We have netflix , but I havent used it a lot.
<knightwise> Bbc iplayer + youtube
<knightwise> and some torrentz
<knightwise> we just dont watch that much TV anymore
<MooDoo> yeah about the same here.....strange we have virgin for broadband sky for telly and i watch most on the pooter
<knightwise> Same here  We watch a LOT via plex and chromecast
<MooDoo> I've had a chromecast plugged in for ages, barely use it
<knightwise> Daily , we have one in the living room and one in the bedroom
<diplo> Keep debating buying one myself
<knightwise> its not that expensive .. See it as a "line in" for your tv
<zmoylan-pi> use a pi instead as it's more flexible?
<MooDoo> they are handy if you have things to stream
<diplo> 1 x hdmi slot ( Old old LCD )
<diplo> :/
<awilkins> Yeah, the main thing holding me back from upgrades to my media setup is SD vs HD
<diplo> Too skint to buy new telly really
<awilkins> I have a 15 year old MythTV box
<awilkins> Ancient Sempron running it
<awilkins> But it just keeps going
<diplo> I have a Revo + microserver
<awilkins> But SD out only
<awilkins> If I get a new screen I'd have to replace the lot
<knightwise> I have our mac mini hooked up to the tv .. it s our media machine but also our VM host and stuff
<awilkins> I am entering a new job where I think I will probably have a need for a server
<awilkins> Don't know whether to get hosting out there or host it at home
<knightwise> small question. I would love to install Feednix
<knightwise> but what packace do I actually download here  ? https://github.com/Jarkore/Feednix
<awilkins> Package? That's a Git repo
<awilkins> Confronted with that I'd clone the repo and build it
<diplo> yeah looks like a build from source
<awilkins> Or use a PPA : https://launchpad.net/~unity-webapps-feedly/+archive/ubuntu/stable
<awilkins> .. which isn't up to date
<diplo> hah was just gooingling that myself
<knightwise> erm .. clone the repo ?
<knightwise> how do i do that again ?
<awilkins> Which dead PPA can mean that the package was accepted of course
<awilkins> knightwise, it's a Git repository. Git is a version control system. You need to install Git, and do
<awilkins> git clone https://launchpad.net/~unity-webapps-feedly/+archive/ubuntu/stable
<awilkins> Oops
<awilkins> git clone https://github.com/Jarkore/Feednix.git
<awilkins> Then you need to build it...
<awilkins> There's a unity thing for it too...  ;https://github.com/eudennis/unity-webapps-feedly
<knightwise> ok , i did the clone git command bu t.. now what ?
<awilkins> cd Feednix
<awilkins> make
<awilkins> See what happens
<knightwise> the site says i should run the autogetn.sh scipt ,
<awilkins> Sounds like you should then
<knightwise> but ..where is it ?
<knightwise> aha
<awilkins> In the folder you just clojned
<knightwise> found ti
<awilkins> Building packages from source is Linux in "Veteran" mode
<awilkins> If you want "hard mode" you use something like Arch or Gentoo
<knightwise> grrr error in the autogen.sh script
<awilkins> knightwise, It's usually missing dependencies
<awilkins> knightwise, If you can work out what it is, install that package, but with a -dev on the end
<awilkins> That installs the headers so the compiler can build things that call those libraries
<knightwise> ok , i'll try to give it a go
<diplo> knightwise,
<diplo> If it's ubuntu below where it tells you to make there is a list of dependancies Ubuntu needs
<diplo> Thank you @chrisjohnston for mentioning the following dependencies for Ubuntu:
<diplo> sudo apt-get install dh-autoreconf libjsoncpp-dev libcurl4-gnutls-dev libncurses5-dev
<knightwise> Igot it :)
<knightwise> now to work out the config file
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> pretty interesting stuff :) i love these little command line apps :)
<selinuxium> Hi all... I have one server in a data centre. I want a warm/hot standby in another DC... What tech could/should I use to keep things in sync? gluster? ceph? zfs? I have no idea where to start... :)
<diplo> drbd ?
<diplo> drbd.org
<diplo> I think
<davmor2> MooDoo: new tune of the day Sash! Ecuador
<intrbiz> selinuxium: I'd second DRBD if you want to replicate data, or you could just use something like rsync, depending on your requirements
<selinuxium> I'll look into it..  :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: lana del rey
<MooDoo> davmor2: although just put on sah
<MooDoo> sash
<davmor2> MooDoo: and now you're smiling right?
<MooDoo> yeah lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's just one of those tunes you can't help it :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Corona Rhythm of the night
<MooDoo> oh now your dragging them out.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I have a long, long list of them.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Starts at 2Ulimited and ends at ZZtop
<davmor2> MooDoo: Outhere Brothers Wiggle, and boom boom boom, but find the radio edit if you are work :)
<shauno> not often you'll find someone who'll admit that in public ;)
<davmor2> shauno: 2unlimited was on a compilation cd but it is in my music library, also it is a tune that puts a smile on my face which is all I want from music
<zmoylan-pi> no 1direction? :-)
<shauno> but .. outhere brothers?
<davmor2> shauno: hahaha
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you must be mistaking me for dick_turpin
<zmoylan-pi> no i wouldn't be that mean :-)
<shauno> I actually remember getting that album.  or rather, I remember bribing my best friend's sister's boyfriend to buy it for us, because woolies were quite strict about the naughty label.
<MooDoo> any one know a quick way of disabling fast user switching un ubuntu lts desktop?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no
<davmor2> shauno: haha
<MooDoo> it's ok i've sussed it
<popey> turns out the electricity board guys have dug a big hole in my garden
<popey> without telling me
<popey> "I did knock on your door, heh!"
<diddledan> are they even allowed to do that?
<popey> i dunno.
<diddledan> I would have thought private property meant that
<zmoylan-pi> claim that they've descecrated fluffies last resting place?
<foobarry> anyone know someone looking for a job?
<foobarry> linux job
<foobarry> all round geeky dude job
<diplo> o/ but you're too far away :/
<foobarry> vmware job
<foobarry> lots of jobs, me
<MooDoo> foobarry: at a uni right?
<foobarry> https://www.hpc.qmul.ac.uk/twiki/bin/view/HPC/VacantPosts
<foobarry> yesh
<foobarry> lots of holiday, and good working hours
<foobarry> and nice team
<Myrtti> it's really tipping down in Cambridgeshire
<Myrtti> good golly
<popey> the engineers are getting rained on.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm too sexy for my shirt
<davmor2> MooDoo: Sunchyme dario g with the back beat from life in a north town
<davmor2> northern
<davmor2> Ice, Ice baby
<Azelphur> hey folks, how do I find out where the oyster card comes into effect? I'm training down from Margate and want to switch to Oyster at the earliest possible for the cheaper fees
<Azelphur> all the coaches are booked :<
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I think TFL has a list?
<MartijnVdS> or a map
<daftykins> or a helpline!
<Azelphur> actually yea, the helpline is pretty useful, should just not dick about and call them.
<daftykins> yeah, someone online could be wrong
<daftykins> i've been in a pub before when mainlanders have been having a huge discussion about the right motorway to take to get from A to B
<daftykins> it's hilariously painful ;D
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> my father in law spends hours planning journeys
<popey> i use google maps
<directhex> i just use my car's satnav
<directhex> 2006 map disc, no postcode db
<daftykins> there's a neat free downloadable-maps app on android a friend pointed me to
<daftykins> 'NavFree' i think it's called
<popey> I've been using HERE mostly recently
<ali1234> Azelphur: using the oyster as much as possible may not be the cheapest way to do it
<MartijnVdS> popey: thanks for retweeting that BBC tweet :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: configured my PVR (software) to record that now ;)
<Myrtti> what programme?
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> heya
<popey> word
<DJones> Yo man
<MooDoo> utopic safe enough to upgrade to?
<daftykins> when you have backups, of course!
<MooDoo> new install so not restored anything yet :D , so might just do it :d
<MooDoo> back in a bit if it works lol
<dutchie> Myrtti: cat watch i assume
<dutchie> if i've got the right tweet
<davmor2> MooDoo: you back yet?
<DJones> davmor2: MooDoo Has only not spoken for 2 minutes, give him chance
<davmor2> DJones: how long does it take to click on a few button and type in a username and password for crying out loud :)
<DJones> davmor2: I'd guess about 24hours
<davmor2> DJones: I bet MooDoo will use some random developer excuse like it was compiling ;)
<Myrtti> dutchie: thankies
<DJones> davmor2: Nah, its MooDoo, the excuse will involve somthing like coudln't be arse'd
<DJones> Can't blame him for that
<davmor2> DJones: no I bet MooDoo will pull this old china out of the hat.....It was installing
<DJones> davmor2: Yeah, but blue screen of death
<davmor2> haha
<MooDoo> well that upgrade worked :d
<MartijnVdS>  \o/
<MartijnVdS> working upgrades are good :)
<popey> yay
<davmor2> MooDoo: Culture beat mr vain
<davmor2> MooDoo: and more important, this beat is, this beat is, this beat is......
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh you shush now :D
<Azelphur> I think I just created the worlds most expensive portable fan https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=42f9829b204f8f8f8be45252124ea054
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I wonder what the runtime is on that
<Azelphur> hehe, good question :P
<diddledan> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline
<diddledan> I want to believe but my scepticals won't let me
<diddledan> if it really is that dense in energy and it doesn't require as much energy to create .. then wow
<ali1234> looks like the "experiment" was completely set up by the inventor of this device, with the researchers merely being allowed to observe
<diddledan> there's several blogs about claiming it's fake
<zmoylan-pi> it's fusion, it'll happen in 20-30 years
<ali1234> oh look they have renders of what the final product will look like, that's another massive red flag
<zmoylan-pi> or are we at 10-20 years away yet?
<diddledan> but nobody giving the "incontrovertible evidence" against that they demand in favour of the device
<ali1234> there are scams like this every year
<diddledan> basically it's vapour in both directions as far as I can tell
<diddledan> nobody with proof it works and nobody with proof it doesn\t
<zmoylan-pi> we'll know someone has cracked fusion when the price of volcano secret lairs has a price bubble :-)
<ali1234> that's like asking for proof that david copperfield didn't really fly over the great wall of china of whatever he did
<ali1234> if it was real, there would be no need for the inventor to carry out these staged demonstrations for proof
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-10
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy diplo
<diplo> Hows the new job MooDoo ?
<diplo> I think I remember you saying you were moving... ? :)
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah it's great thanks, learning lots :)
<diplo> Same style of work ?
<MooDoo> nah completely different, customer support team leader in my last job, windows/linux sys admin in this one.  Last job web hosting, this one health foods  complete change
<MooDoo> left there had to setup my own server for all my websites, the cheek of it :D
<MooDoo> uptime for my ubuntu webserver is currently 28 days lol
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Still in Nottingham ?
<MooDoo> yeah mate blenheim industrial estate
<diplo> Nice, really must pull my finger out and sort myself a new job
<MooDoo> diplo: they are out there, what you looking to do?
<diplo> Same as you really, level 2/3 I guess
<MooDoo> cool nottingham based?
<diplo> I moved to development for a few years
<diplo> Nah, my main office is up there but I'm based near bath
<MooDoo> ah
<MooDoo> start your own linux consulting company :D
<diplo> I could do that and I could do the work, my problem with running my own company is actually charging/collecting money
<diplo> I suck at it!
<MooDoo> I know that one lol
<MooDoo> I started my own and all I have is the website which has three lines on it :D
<diplo> I already do bits and bobs for people and they say how much do I owe you... ME : 'What ever you feel is right'
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy World Mental Health Day! :-D
<diplo> Is pretty much the normal response
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait :)
<MooDoo> diplo: if it's family or friends I just say forget it and they normally get me beer :D
<JamesTait> Also, happy World Porridge Day - which I think I should have celebrated at breakfast.
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<MooDoo> diplo: if it's non family, it's about Â£20
<DJones> JamesTait: I'm sure bricklayers around the word will celebrate world porridge day
<diplo> I get given anywhere for Â£10 to Â£60, family / friends never even bother with beer which is rather annoying, it's expected
<diplo> So I quite often forget them now when they ask
<diplo> :)
<MooDoo> lol, my family I've installed teamviewer, so at least I don't need to leave the house :D
<diplo> Done that on my dads new machine
<MooDoo> yeah I had to login to my dads the other day as they didn't know how to use skype lol
<MooDoo> I said Â£20 but for some reason they swore at me :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: Why am I shushing you, you know you love the old dance tracks :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah damn you mr
<MooDoo> davmor2: grooove is in the hearrrrrt hearrrrttt :F
<davmor2> dee lite
<MooDoo> yeah
<davmor2> word up, it's the code word
<MooDoo> hay pretty ladies around the world....
<Myrtti> unce unce unce unce
<MooDoo> davmor2: now I've had to play 90's dance party music in spotify, darm your music genres
<popey> Good moaning.
<MooDoo> howdy popey
<davmor2> MooDoo: 3 names are the joy for today to get me through.  Josh Wink, Moby, Fat Boy Slim
<davmor2> MooDoo: That's all I'm sayin'
<MooDoo> nice :D
<MooDoo> So my upgrade to utopic worked flawlessly last night :D
<davmor2> I heard
<davmor2> MooDoo: I might throw in the Bucketheads and I wanna be a hippy for popey :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: you saying popey is a hippy at heart
<MooDoo> ?
<MooDoo> finally it happened to me.......
<davmor2> MooDoo: aren't we all just freedom loving hippies at heart
<foobarry> woke up at 4.30am to the sound of nibbling
<foobarry> turned on the torch and a mouse ran over my foot :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: Cece something or other
<davmor2> MooDoo: patinson petinson something like that
<davmor2> foobarry: nice
<davmor2> it like you then
<MooDoo> ewwwww
<knightwise>   Mornings peepz
<knightwise> Howzzyou :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: morning :D
<knightwise> Hey Mooodoo
<knightwise> howslife
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<JamesTait> bigcalm, o/
<JamesTait> bigcalm, played any more with Soonsnap since OggCamp?
<bigcalm> Moving house is somewhat draining, and we have until the end of the month to get it done. Glad it didn't have to be done in a day
<bigcalm> JamesTait: oh, was I sat next to you? I'm so sorry, I should have paid more attention!
<bigcalm> Not had a need to use it yet, but I do like the service
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I should have introduced myself, really, but I came over all shy.
<bigcalm> Awww
<JamesTait> davmor2 will tell you, I'm the quiet one.
<davmor2> he lies
<bigcalm> JamesTait: so the opposite of davmor2 then
<bigcalm> Ha, morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Good cop, bad cop. ;)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: bad cop evil cop more like ;)
 * JamesTait chuckles to himself, wondering which is which.
<bigcalm> I know which is the weird cop
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm and JamesTait
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's you, you workaholic
<bigcalm> o/
<JamesTait> Must be time for tea.
 * bigcalm quaffs coffee
<davmor2> JamesTait: enough of the niceties why internet day is it damn it ;)
<knightwise> hey brobostigon  (and the rest :) )
<davmor2> s/why/what
<brobostigon> hey knightwise :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: It's internet cut off day, for me
<davmor2> bigcalm: man how will you work over the weekend, dun dun dunnnnnnnnn
<bigcalm> davmor2: VM are connecting the new house tomorrow morning
<bigcalm> Because the house isn't connected (but the street is), 2 engineers have to do some magic to get it installed. It will be a fun time
<knightwise> No way to hotspot your phone as a backup line ,
<bigcalm> I have my 3g tethered router ready for the cut off some time today
<Myrtti> let me tell you a woeful tale
<bigcalm> Myrtti: let me get a hanky 1st
<Myrtti> of a myrtti bying vanilla soy milk to make her coffee nice and tasty
<Myrtti> buying, even
<Myrtti> and then, getting real disappointed, because now coffee doesn't taste of coffee, vanilla, or milk
<Myrtti> ;___;
<knightwise> Myrtti: thats true
<knightwise> it takes some getting used to .
<bigcalm> Myrtti: what does it taste of?
<knightwise> babymilk
<Myrtti> it smells and tastes like my makeup bag
<knightwise> Myrtti: about right ..
<Myrtti> nondescript and bland but with a hint of something that you can't really describe. Sweet, tiny bit floral, maybe vanilla...
<Myrtti> just... makeup bag
<knightwise> I love it with cornflakes though.
<MooDoo> baby milk is yuck
<christel> i now have visions of a grown MooDoo dangling from a pair of engorged boobs
<MooDoo> bitty ;)
<christel> haha
 * knightwise runs away ... trying not to throw up on his keyboard
<bigcalm> Nice
<Myrtti> oh good grief this is horrid
<Myrtti> I feel so sorry for anyone who has to drink this. So very, very sorry.
<Myrtti> I suppose it's about what you get used to, but man.
<MooDoo> lol yeah it's horrid but good for babies
<foobarry> soy milk? tried it once with coco pops
<foobarry> it's nasty
<czajkowski> aloha
<bigcalm> Ello czajkowski :)
<knightwise> hey czajkowski , hows bash !
<czajkowski> bonkers but good
<knightwise> That dog is awesome .. completely nuts but sooo awesome
<czajkowski> currently seeing off all the birds that tend to sift on the walls outside driving him crazy
<JamesTait> davmor2, today is World Mental Health Day. And six others.
<knightwise> Lol :) Anti-bird-bash :)
<czajkowski> pigeons drive him binkers
<czajkowski> *bonkers
<czajkowski> as do planes s he barks at them as they pass over so he think he sees them off
<knightwise> Scotty is the same here .. but with cats
<czajkowski> oh the cats torment him,come up to the cat flap that was in the house and look at him
<czajkowski> he goes crazy
<knightwise> sulu is a little more peacefull : https://www.flickr.com/photos/knightwise/14898480048/
<knightwise> scotty has to inspect ALL THE THINGS : https://www.flickr.com/photos/knightwise/14447597798/
<MooDoo> sorry davmor2 I've had to move onto led zeppelin
<davmor2> MooDoo: Stairway to heaven in bbc news triggered I bet ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: god dammit
<MooDoo> yes
<MooDoo> blush
<davmor2> MooDoo: See I know
<MooDoo> davmor2: You're stalking me
<davmor2> MooDoo: what you want to lead into then is all along the watchtower by jimi ;)
<Myrtti> oh wow. Great news.
<Myrtti> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/wins-nobel-peace-prize-2014
<Myrtti> "Malala Yousafzai and Kailash Satyarthi win Nobel peace prize 2014"
<MooDoo> That's good news
<MooDoo> Faith in humanity restored
<davmor2> MooDoo: indeed :)
<MooDoo> any one want to rebuild my server fro me, can't be bothered lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh me, me ,me.........makes it so every url parsed rick rolls MooDoo
<MooDoo> lol want to remove vmware davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah then remove the Redhat and microsoft stuff I know how much you like them ;)
<popey> hah
<MooDoo> actually I don't run redhat/ms on my servers at the moment, just debian servers :p so there
<MooDoo> and my webserver is ubuntu :p
<popey> davmor2: ask him again tomorrow â»
<davmor2> popey: Tomorrow give him 20 minutes
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> davmor2: I don't touch my webserver, apart from to reboot it to install security updates, gos customer sites on it, so that will stay ubuntu
<davmor2> MooDoo: moved onto Queen the Platinum Collection  seemed fitting somehow
<MooDoo> I'm not a queen thank you very much
<davmor2> MooDoo: especially Another one bites the dust
<knightwise> MooDoo: I hope you ment queen-FAN
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: and okay princess calm down
<MooDoo> lol ha ha ha ha
<foobarry> anyone had experience of screen attached to laptop not allowed as a primary screen? seems to be only cloning atm
<foobarry> might be elementary OS related :S
<Myrtti> ooh
<Myrtti> Russell Tovey voices Moomintroll in the Moomin movie.
<directhex> moomin is my default metasyntactic variable.
<davmor2> knightwise: you need a red setter, that way you have a random red coat
<knightwise> a red setter ? ? ?
<davmor2> knightwise: well scotty and sulu can't die on startrek missions so you need a rnadom red coat
<knightwise> indeed :)
<knightwise> we always carry along an extra redshirt
<davmor2> hahaha
<knightwise> some no name extra who doesn't make it back :)
<czajkowski> knightwise: have you seen https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bonkers-Bash/
<knightwise> oh i SO joined this !
<czajkowski> hmm did that link work for you knightwise
<czajkowski> or do you need to go via https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bonkers-Bash/739967579348639?
<knightwise> found it :)
<MooDoo> awwwwwww
<knightwise> has bash been patched for shellshock yet ?
<MooDoo> not that i'm aware of
<MooDoo> knightwise: http://evolvisforge.blog.tarent.de/archives/93
<knightwise> I was referring to bash the dog :)
<knightwise> but yeah .. its amazing this exploit is still open
<zmoylan-pi> it's been patched lots of times, completely patched is another question :-)
<SuperMatt> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/10/psa-netflix-ubuntu-now-working-box
<popey> pfffft old news ã
<popey> https://plus.google.com/+AlanPope/posts/Lknxg4xcfG3
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<MooDoo> :)
<awilkins> What, no user-agent spoof required now?
<awilkins> Awesomes
<awilkins> knightwise, bash was patched for shellshock the day it was announced, wasn't it?
<shauno> there's been a near-constant stream of patches
<MooDoo> awilkins: yes it was patched, then that patch didn't actually work, neither did the subsiquent 2 others
<awilkins> Oh dear
<awilkins> Ah well, at least they're trying harder than Solaris :-Z
<knightwise> oops
<knightwise> online snapchat database leaked ..
<knightwise> another crack in the cloud
<zmoylan-pi> something online not secure? i'm shocked AND appalled
<foobarry> "I agree a deep dive session will be most appropriate." - classic project manager speak
<zmoylan-pi> so he's signing off on overtime then? :-)
<foobarry> 4od still broken on ubuntu :(
<popey> 4od is broken everywhere
<foobarry> except unrooted tablets and window i guess
<popey> nope, its crap everywhere
<foobarry> but does it show the programme?
<DJones> Not sure if folks have seen this on the mailing lists lately, http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/100-off-linux-foundation-certification-for-ubuntu-users/1915
<DJones> Hello everyone! I am happy to announce that the Linux Foundation has decided to offer $100 off their Linux Certification course to Ubuntu Members, users, and enthusiasts. This exam is normally $300 dollars. Note that this offer expires on November 7th, so you need to get in early!
<davmor2> MooDoo: He lives in a house a very big house in the country
<BigRedS> are the linux foundation courses well regarded? I'd never heard of them until that popped up on my facebook feed
<foobarry> think they are new
<awilkins> foobarry, 4od works on Ubuntu if you install some old library
<awilkins> Can't remember what it is, but I've watched Utopia on it
<foobarry> hal
<foobarry> that stopped working
<MooDoo> the linux foundation exam discount is open to all people now.
<MooDoo> damn didn't see yours djones
<foobarry> not really a discount, just a fake higher price then :P
<MooDoo> well $100 off so it's Â£200 for the exam which is about Â£125
<MooDoo> which I don't have just yet :(
<awilkins> foobarry, The current hal package is a dummy
<awilkins> foobarry, If you install the real hal it works again
<awilkins> That's the "old library"
<denny> since I upgraded from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 last week, Evolution is really slow to mark spam emails and get them out of my inbox.  Used to be almost instantaneous, now it takes maybe 2 seconds, and if you click the spam button 3 times it doesn't pick up the next 2 as well, like it used to.  Any ideas?
<foobarry> awilkins: what's the real hal?
<awilkins> foobarry, the current hal package is just a dead dummy that replaces the old one
<awilkins> foobarry, I can't remember the exact resolution I used, but I managed to get there with googling and poking around
<foobarry> thanks for the headsup
<awilkins> Might have involved getting old packages from previous releases, not sure
<awilkins> But that sounds like the kind of thing I'd have done
<BigRedS> oh yeah, this netflix-on-ubuntu thing, is that Chromium having some sponsored good silverlight implementation or something?
<popey> no, it's chrome having EME
<denny> you can play netflix on linux without silverlight now (via HTML5 video instead) by using Chrome (not Chromium) and faking your user-agent
<popey> you dont need to fake the user agent
<MooDoo> not any more any way
<popey> that was fixed yesterday
<denny> Chrome >= 0./38, which was beta last time I looked
<BigRedS> yeah, that was my next question - how is this different from the way I've done it before
<denny> oh ah?  awesome
<foobarry> my g+ feed has nothing else in it today
<foobarry> except NETFLIIIIX
 * denny goes to disable his UA faker
<denny> :)
<MooDoo> BigRedS: fake the user agent = old way   just watching netflix = new way :)
<foobarry> and the screenshots i've seen so far are people watching the programmes i already see on telly
<BigRedS> ahhh
<foobarry> beginning to think netflix is all hype
<MooDoo> i must admit i was surprised it worked last night straight out the box when i upgraded to utopic
<denny> foobarry: I don't own a TV
<MooDoo> foobarry: starting to agree with you especially when I see more on sky
<denny> otoh the UK stuff is SOOOOOO bar behind TV and DVD releases that it's kind of irritating.
<denny> apparently you can fake your way into the US version with a proxy and that has more recent seasons
<denny> tedious.
<MooDoo> i generally just watch stuff from the states
<foobarry> but that's US programmes :S
 * denny leaves MooDoo and foobarry to fight that one out  ;)
<MooDoo> well yes, not a lot of brit progs I waytch
<foobarry> mind you, my wife and i seem to be working our way throug the 0s show on viva channel
<foobarry> *70s
<popey> ali1234: Sam says thanks for the xbox voucher...
<popey> he's been off school sick today, and has been playing a game he bought
<MooDoo> thinking of getting an xbox myself for my lad from santa
<popey> i have an old xbox crystal which he plays a bit, and a 360
<MooDoo> i'm after a 360, don't think he needs a one yet
<MooDoo> only reason we want one is that disnet infinity marvel isn't available for the wii :(
<foobarry> kensington lock
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/GMTo0SD
<popey> hah
<popey> someone proving a point, or lost the key, or something stolen?
<foobarry> me proving a point
<foobarry> however there seem to be 2 varieties
<foobarry> thinner and thicker
<foobarry> took me 2 clenches to snip, much quicker than using a key
 * popey prints out a voucher for curry tonight
<MooDoo> yum
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> a wild night doesn't use a coupon :-)
<foobarry> wife is going away for hen weekend
<foobarry> i have the kids all w/end
<foobarry> i'm already knackered
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkzF56tGYSg
<diddledan> anyone remember that?
<diddledan> I've just realised I have far too many windows open
<foobarry> best way to stop ISIL?
<foobarry> introduce ITIL. they will die out from too many managers and processes and not enough workers
<diddledan> I am confused by all the different terms. IS, ISIS, and ISIL - what does each mean?
<foobarry> precursors to ITIL
<foobarry> and lack of standards
<imexil> Hi, just installed 14.10 :) But now I need gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg for H264 support. For Trusty there was a ppa but I did not find anything for Utopic. Can anyone help?
<directhex> imexil: h264 support in what?
<directhex> imexil: i think 14.10 is entirely gst 1.0 by now, no?
<imexil> I have a video cut application written in python and that needs it
<imexil> See also http://zb.dwe.no/?6f53d117bf4cae3a#6NTwBZyCnOgBQwEYEqQAjvQkYNcCtZx+xCVpFClN5xY=
<imexil> apparently the gst 1.0 package is not providing it.
<imexil> Damn, gotta go. Will pop in later.
<MooDoo> hi bye
<davmor2> MooDoo: placebo's version of running up that hill
 * DJones kills davmor2 Why? Couldn't be improved anyway, anyone that tried just demonstrates their lack of creatability
<davmor2> DJones: have you listened to it?
<DJones> No, I like kate bush, so copies/reissues etc don't interest me
<davmor2> DJones: Kates is phenomenal I love it, but placebo's is chilling they are both great for different reason and I have both :)  and every time it is played Kate gets a cut :)
<davmor2> DJones: honestly listen to it you are missing out on the other side to that song
<DJones> just got it on utube
<DJones> davmor2: Your right, it is a good cover,not quite got the same passion for me thought
<DJones> though
<davmor2> DJones: I didn't say it was.  Kates is still the better of the two but placebos makes the lyrics stand out and realise how sinister the words are :)  Kates makes you feel happy for hearing it :)  And she is better looking, Dances like a classical ballerina and makes you feel up beat :0
<davmor2> :) even
<zmoylan-pi> how many cover versions are better than the original?
<mapps> hi all
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: 2 Adele singing Rolling in the deep and and Lazard remix of beverly cravens promise me
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: next
<zmoylan-pi> sinead o'connor's nothing compares to u, but these are exceptions
<mapps> ;]
<denny> since I upgraded from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 last week, Evolution is really slow to mark spam emails and get them out of my inbox.  Used to be almost instantaneous, now it takes maybe 2 seconds, and if you click the spam button 3 times it doesn't pick up the next 2 as well, like it used to.  Any ideas on what might be causing that / how to fix it?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: oh and then there is the music from forget me nots which has been replayed in about 20 tracks, in cluding men in black and George Micheals track as well
<zmoylan-pi> denny are other apps showing signs of slowdown?  a general system slowdown?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2XhhuM9GZo
<davmor2> denny: are you using spamassin or bogofilter
<mapps> GOD DAMNIT
<davmor2> denny: spamassassin seems to of gotten slower
<mapps> THE NET HERE IS SO SLOW
<davmor2> mapps: you need more cats
<zmoylan-pi> or pigeons
<mapps> ni
<mapps> e
<mapps> need my fibre to get installed =[
<mapps> had no net since 23rd
<mapps> been relying on wifi
<mapps> no 3g either
<mapps> my fibre gets installed on 24th apparently and EE unlock my phone on 23rd:D
<davmor2> mapps: hahahaha man that sucks so hard
 * zmoylan-pi hands end of very long pice of string to mapps :-)
<mapps> yes it does suck
<mapps> i got fibre at home like 3 weeks before i moved
<mapps> LOL
<zmoylan-pi> opera as a browser sucks but does compression servers side so might help
<mapps> and then came here and nothing..cant even use 3g ..if i use my EE contract il get killed with charges
<mapps> ive got unlimited eu calls and texts but had to get annew sim for data
<mapps> i went to gib telecom and applied for adsl..everything has to be done in person..quite annoying
<davmor2> mapps: that sucks so hard you should put it in a box and sell it as an industrial vacuum doesn't help but it might make you some money ;)
<mapps> and she said if i signup now its 50 deposit 50 phone line 50 internet fee and 80 a month FOR 20mbit right
<denny> zmoylan-pi: no, everything else is good.  Just upgraded RAM, and added an SSD for primary disk, so it's all nice except this.
<mapps> and in 14 days they go to fibre 100mbit for 73 quid
<denny> davmor2: spamassassin afaik
<mapps> and then to swap id have to pay another 50 quid fee so i decided to wait
<mapps> :(
<mapps> already paying 150 in fees
<davmor2> denny: spamassassin got really slow recently. try disabling it and enabling bogofilter instead and see if that is better for you
<denny> I live in central London - in 'tech city' in fact - and I can't get fibre broadband.  Crazy.
<denny> davmor2: yeah?  Okay, I'll take a look.
<mapps> hahahah
<mapps> really?
<mapps> sheesh that sucks
<mapps> 'tech city' shoreditch somewhere?
<denny> mapps: yeah, sucks.  My girlfriend lives in Enfield, zone 5 or whatever, she has it  :)
 * denny nods
<mapps> i know it got that name or something
<zmoylan-pi> but if he wants packets delivered by vaccuum tube on the other hand... :-)
<denny> yeah, Shoreditch/Hoxton area - around Old Street
<mapps> that super sucks denny
<denny> zmoylan-pi: lol  :)
<denny> it's pretty silly
<mapps> but here man 20mbit for 83 QUID A MONTHFOPR 20MBIT IS A JOKE
<denny> the exchange has it, half the cabinets around here have it, but the ones near me don't
<mapps> and 150 in fees 50 installation for phone 50 install adsl 50 deposit..kinda sucks
<davmor2> mapps: costs too much to dig up the street to lay it :)
<mapps> so its like do i wait 14 days for 100mbit for 73 or get 20 now and pay 83 and another 50?
<denny> those are some evil fees, yeah
<denny> I'd wait
<mapps> exactly
<mapps> i desperately want the net of course
<denny> probably chew my fingernails off in the meantime mind you
<denny> yeah
<mapps> im going from using it at HOME..AT WORK..AT THE GYM..ONE THE WAY TO WORK
<zmoylan-pi> you need to breed mice and get them into the cabinet to encourage it's upgrading ;-)
<mapps> to absolutely nothing unless i use the wifi
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-11
<foobarry> ping
<foobarry> wow, quiet in here last night
<daftykins> sure was
<daftykins> only Krenair's bad connection to keep me company
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<OERIAS> Bonjour brobostigon
<brobostigon> moin OERIAS
<OERIAS> how's everyone
<OERIAS> some time i wish ubuntu would have an option to make the menus on the unity menu bar not disappear and remain
<dvrr> PageSpeed Insights received a 400 response from the server. To analyze pages behind firewalls or that require authentication, try the
<dvrr> website speed test  i am  got this error   how to resolve
<dvrr> MooDoo
<bob4nk]p> !s napp
<Myrtti> what?
<bob4nk]p> nap
<Myrtti> ok
<Myrtti> rejoice! new irssi
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> new featyres?
<foobarry> i am on ye olde version as supplied by centos5
<Myrtti> foobarry: 256 colour support, splitlong built in, bug fixes
<Myrtti> http://irssi.org/news/ChangeLog
<foobarry> rpm -qa  irssi
<foobarry> irssi-0.8.15-1.el5.i386
<foobarry> :(
<Myrtti> awww
<Myrtti> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/ailin_nemui:/irssi/ but no centos there either
<foobarry> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/irssi
<foobarry> failzor
<foobarry> Myrtti: do you use the nicklist script?
<foobarry> segfaults 0.8.17 for me
<Myrtti> no.
<Myrtti> it's pointless in my books
<foobarry> in smaller rooms its great
<Myrtti> all my channels have enough people that the nicklist shows is only partial, and it breaks terminal URL detection
<robbins__> test
<penguin42> your test has failed
<Krenair> daftykins, urgh, sorry about the connection thing. I think my vps has been playing up these past few days :(
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 yawns at bigcalm
<bigcalm> I can has 100mb internetz
 * penguin42 types rapidly at bigcalm
<penguin42> bigcalm: What flavour?
<bigcalm> VirginMedia cable
<bigcalm> We moved house. Had 60mb back there
<bigcalm> 9 minute walk
<bigcalm> And now we have 100mb
<bigcalm> And I've kept my IP address, which I didn't expect at all
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: oooh... such a hi speed infection connection ;)
<penguin42> bigcalm: I think the areas are quite large
<bigcalm> 60/3 -> 100/6
<penguin42> bigcalm: I'm on their 60/3
<bigcalm> FTTC I could have had 52/19
<bigcalm> But I'll go with the higher download rate :D
<penguin42> on a good day with the wind in the right direction
 * penguin42 can't get FTTC
<popey> anyone tried steam big picture mode recently?
<popey> I just get a blue screen with no content
<MartijnVdS> lemme check
<MartijnVdS> it's blue alright.. but I get buttons
<MartijnVdS> also my avatar is very blue
<MartijnVdS> but everything seems to work fine
<popey> hmm
<popey> busted here
<MartijnVdS> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06)
<MartijnVdS> (Haswell graphics, 4770k)
<ali1234> works for me on nvidia
<ali1234> still has the menu corruption: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3337
<popey> yeah, I'm on nvidia too
 * popey tries on windows
<popey> works fine there
<brobostigon> new dr who, :)
<popey> ooh!
<popey> I'll watch later when wifey is home
<brobostigon> :) iplayer to the rescue.
<daftykins> and a new 30 day limit soon no less 0o
<foobarry> anyone been watching the detectorists on bbc4?
<daftykins> that's an odd name
<foobarry> comedy about metal detector fans
<foobarry> not laugh out loud funny but enjoyable
<foobarry> mackenzie crook wrote it
<shauno> is that frankie skinner?
<foobarry> who ?
<shauno> on dr.who
<foobarry> oh, heh
<foobarry> watching it tomoz
<shauno> well I was trying to be as unspoiler-y as possible
<shauno> I just hate that thing where you know the face but you're not really sure
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> should come along to our tuesday night pub quiz
<shauno> I thought about it, but it's a bit of a walk
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> need a scuba suit too
<popey> ah
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<OERIAS> good morning
<daftykins> o/
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<OERIAS> any CM users?
<OERIAS> morning reptiles
<daftykins> cyanogenmod?
<OERIAS> morning gastropods
<OERIAS> daftykins, yes
<daftykins> ah, first time guess. that was lucky
<zmoylan-pi> the reptile people are here!! ::hits panic button::
<OERIAS> cyanogenmod users/
<OERIAS> ?
<daftykins> i've used devices with it in the past
<OERIAS> no likey?
<OERIAS> no likey cyanogenmod?
<daftykins> ones an old phone that's now an alarm clock and one isn't mine, so sits on a desk gathering dust
<daftykins> my daily driver is a Nexus 4, unmodified
<OERIAS> The one collecting dust, what phone?
<daftykins> an HTC One X+
<OERIAS> can I have it??? lol
 * brobostigon has been using CM ever since the htc dream.
<daftykins> as i say, not mine
<OERIAS> brobostigon, really?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> I have CM7 on an HTC Hero (which I never use)
<brobostigon> cm7 is based on aosp 2.3 if memory serves, which is ancient now.
<daftykins> my device was more limited by hardware design failure than what android version you could get on it
<daftykins> a 150MB /data partition? hah!
<popey> indeed, it was crap when i bought it, and still is
<popey> it put me off android
<daftykins> ever read that NY Times article i think it was about how non-functional the first iPhone really was when Apple unveiled it? :D
<daftykins> there was a fully action-scripted demo as any other action crashed it apparently
<zmoylan-pi> the iphone 3g i got needed a factory reset about twice a month as it was so unstable
<brobostigon> ouch
<brobostigon> VROOOM
<zmoylan-pi> but when the 3gs came out the ios from that was a vast improvement, but the memo app kept corrupting on me
<SuperEngineer> definite lol coming up here... I have kindly been offered the chance to attend a driver education course in relation to a speeding offence in Wales...
<SuperEngineer> ...I would like to kindly offer all Welsh authoritoes a lesson geography [re the "location" of the courses...
<SuperEngineer> Basingstoke is NOT in North Wales, Basingstoke is NOT in North Yorkshire, Hampshire is NOT in Northern Ireland, Hampshire is NOT in Northumbria...
<SuperEngineer> or Nottinghamshire...
<SuperEngineer> ...Shropshire is NOT in Avn & Somerset...
<SuperEngineer> Shropshire is NOT in Devon OR Cornwall...
<SuperEngineer> ...still - it gave I one big laugh reading their "kind offer"... I chose the course in Gloucester - it IS in Glouscestershire as per their locations letter :D
<SuperEngineer> [deliberate mis-spelling]
<zmoylan-pi> people have had trouble with mail mergers and form letters since word star :-)
<SuperEngineer> :D
<SuperEngineer> ...& the ultimate lol... [in caps because that how they put it] " COURT PROCESS WILL BE INVOKED IF YOU DO NOT DECLINE A COURSE" !  perhaps I should decline their kind offer after all ;)
<SuperEngineer> Paid for the awareness course... I wonder if I should take a working Linux pooter with me - just to prove their form could be done correctly ;)
<SuperEngineer> [speed awareness course]
<zmoylan-pi> slap a usb drive or sd card with a live distro on it?
<zmoylan-pi> on your non linux computer that is
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> ...or take the "old brick" along [Linux as default & WinXP as "history" for regedit reference]
<DJones> \o/ New phone day
<popey> uhoh
<popey> directhex: did your/wifeys Hudl 2 arrive
<popey> I am unable to type Hudl without mis-typing it as Hudle first
<directhex> popey, missed delivery today, whilst we were out shopping. at tesco.
<diddledan> lol
<popey> hah
<popey> so pegatron make the board in the hudl 2
<popey> http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/977285
<diddledan> oh, it's an atom!
<diddledan> I wonder what the battery life is compared to an arm of similar benchmark scores?
<ali1234> what is the point of hudl?
<ali1234> i mean for someone who already owns several tablets
<directhex> popey, good find
<directhex> popey, pegatron as an ODM are lower down the chain than an OEM like archos, so it would be cheaper than going through a middle-man
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> https://github.com/MichaelJCole/bithammer  interesting
<zmoylan-pi> they're cheap generic tablets and if you already shop at tesco and have a club card you can get them *very* cheap
<bigcalm> popey: very
<directhex> zmoylan-pi, we got a case for hour hudl 1, a hudl 2, and a hudl 2 case, for Â£1.75 and some clubcard points
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't get cheaper than that, does it? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> but it still wouldn't encourage me to get a club card :-)
<l34rn> hi
<l34rn> Can i ask question?
<l34rn> what affect command aptitude install -f ?
<shauno> -f is fix.  if a previous install went wrong half way through, it should try to fix the muddle
<directhex> typically -f will try to finish any interrupted package installations, or install new packages if an installed package is missing a dependency (e.g. you manually installed a .deb with "dpkg -i" and it has missing dependencies, aptitutde -f can unravel that & fill in the gaps)
<kamkam_> hi
<SuperEngineer> directhex: do you know if it would cure a problem with a deb fill that refuses to instaall because of deprecated package?
<directhex> SuperEngineer, only if the deprecated packages it expects are available in a configured repository
<SuperEngineer> thanks, directhex - unfortunately that is the case.... ho hum
<SuperEngineer> [i.e. not available]
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-05
<Moodoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> nirbubg
<SuperMatt> morning
<zmoylan-pi> half eight and it's dark enough to need a light on... morning indeed :-)
<SuperMatt> fingers entirely in the wrong place there
<zmoylan-pi> just say it's a code to drive the nsa nuts, that's what i do when that happens :-P
<SuperMatt> I don't normally have an issue with fingering
<zmoylan-pi> someone moved your chair or keyboard 1cm
<Moodoo> i still struggle with displat sometimes lol
<SuperMatt> I know I have the littlel nipples on my f and j, but it doesn't mean I remember that they're ther
<SuperMatt> +e
<diplo> Morning all
<Moodoo> howdy diplo
<davmor2> Morning all
<Moodoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> So Moodoo I blame you entirely
<davmor2> Moodoo: 33 13 :(
<Moodoo> that's fine, what did I do this time?
<Moodoo> ah well we played crap against a far superior team
<davmor2> Moodoo: and your excuse for Defeat against Wales?
<davmor2> Moodoo: I mean kicked out of our own world cup in the qualifiers that's worse than the football team ;)
<Moodoo> davmor2: bad captain decisions against wales...we should of won that one.
<davmor2> Moodoo: so we fire you as captain and have a winning team again is that what you're saying?
<Moodoo> i've quit already
<davmor2> Moodoo: Good man it's for the sake of the countries pride ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Teachers' Day! ð
<zmoylan-1i> it's a lie, there are no happy teachers
<davmor2> Moodoo: now see if you get this one this time, JamesTait https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg
<JamesTait> Now why is YouTube asking me to activate Flash?
<davmor2> zmoylan-1i: I don't know the CEO  of teachers is pretty happy
<davmor2> JamesTait: might be an old video that is still flash maybe
<davmor2> JamesTait: although it is working fine here on chromium
<JamesTait> Good start to the week, though.
<davmor2> JamesTait: were you able to see it in the end?
<JamesTait> I just allowed Flash. I've got the plugin set to always ask.
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahaha
<JamesTait> I'm stunned by how many apparently plain sites ask for permission to activate Flash.
<JamesTait> Click tracking/analytics, I assume.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think the chorus is very apt for teachers day :)
<diplo> Anyone run mate or mint in VirtualBox under Ubunut ?
<diplo> Just wondering if or how well it works
<popey> i have a MATE VM under Ubuntu, works fine.
<diplo> Great t
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<diplo> ta*
<diplo> Anyone also recommend a self hosted pastebin ?
<bashrc> 0bin
<diplo> heh, actually on their github page now
<diplo> None of them have been update in a long time, although thats not the end of the world
<diplo> It's only going to be use internally so not overly worried
<brobostigon> alternative one: make your own.
<diplo> I've debated that too brobostigon or branching one of those ( sorry forking )
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: there is always https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNIZofPB8ZM  but he is not sound so happy :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://youtu.be/HrxX9TBj2zY
<davmor2> JamesTait: yeah I guess that would make teachers happy or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oo8QzDHimQ
<davmor2> Moodoo: see how the videos follow the theme of the day ;)
<diplo> Mint and Mate installing, see if I can kill my PC :)
<bashrc> depends how old it is, but Mate is lightweight
<diplo> heh it's an old Optiplex with 6gb of ram, dies by the end of the week normally :)
<diplo> I'm interested in Mate to try on my PC and we use Mint at some customer sites and want to write some documentation up
<bashrc> Because Mate is really just Gnome 2 it should run well even on pretty ancient hardware, and the ram consumption isn't high
<daftykins> diplo: dies o0
<daftykins> also why Mint :(
<Laney> been on phone to a dell 0844 number for about 30 minutes now
 * Laney weeps for his phone bill
<daftykins> haha, should've used skype
<diplo> daftykins: I had no say in it.. was installed by our headoffice on what are basically rebranded Gems
<daftykins> i just used skype to call Onkyo in Germany about my faulty subwoofer
<Laney> can you call those for free?
<diplo> NUCS*
<daftykins> i dunno, but often my skype balance doesn't even change with most service numbers
<Laney> just put it in the included minutes already :@
<Laney> bloody three
<daftykins> i take it it's not for work, if on your mobile?
<diplo> Well Mint has failed already... needs more than 8.6 of free space :D
<daftykins> it what O_O
<daftykins> DVD edition or something?
<diplo> Maybe... but Mate is defo dvd version and installing fine :)
<davmor2> diplo: if it's an older system you might be better off with something like lubuntu or xubuntu
<diplo> Better recreate a bigger image i guess
<Laney> just looked at the timer
<daftykins> image?
<Laney> it's actually 42 minutes
<Laney> GOD
<diplo> Nah this is in a VM for writing up for docs, they're running Mint on NUCS that are rebranded
<diplo> Customers appear to like it... although I'm the only person at work that runs linux on the desktop, so want to write up notes so I don't get asked to much :)
<diplo> As nobody else bothers
<daftykins> :) sounds like a plan
<daftykins> then all you need to do is convince them to read them before asking things
<diplo> Upto about 500 pages I think now of docs since I started
<daftykins> !
<diplo> I've had some success in that too!!!
 * daftykins gasps
<diplo> The company is 25-30 years old, in the last year I've written more documentation than they have in the last 30 :D
<Laney>  Calls, texts, downloads & Euro Internet Pass Â£17.46
<diplo> Best screenshot app now adays on Ubuntu ?
<Laney> WTF
<zmoylan-pi> ...convince them to read them before asking things...
 * zmoylan-pi sees flaw in plan...
<diplo> Use Snipping Tool on windows mainly :)
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: I got asked how to "Add a printer" recently docs, one of the guys that always passes on calls was told to read it and did it himself.. so tis working!! :D
<daftykins> snipping tool \o/
<diplo> OK mint going on now :)
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed... just in case...
<daftykins> makes me giggle a bit the way you referred to a machine with 6GB RAM, we had someone come in #ubuntu the other day wanting to put something on a 1GHz celeron with 256MB
<daftykins> i tried to point out it wasn't even worth it, as my own tests showed you end up with 4MB free after boot
<daftykins> so it'd be one swaptastic experience :)
<zmoylan-pi> dump the pc with 256mb and get a rasp pi :-)
<daftykins> oy, Â£60 this company in London wants to repair my subwoofer
<daftykins> what a joke
<diplo> Bad thing is this is *my* old PC, not a work supplied one
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hah yeah, that might actually be an improvement
<bashrc> daftykins: tinycore!
<daftykins> nah, it's just not even worth enabling folk like that
<zmoylan-pi> i used a 1gb netbook as main system till about 3 months ago.  if you even browse the web you'll need more than 1gb
<daftykins> yeah and forget flash of any variety
<zmoylan-pi> oh i could play flash games in 1gb, i just had to close the browser afterwards to free the memory
<daftykins> speaking of, anyone watch any twitch feeds at all? livestreamer to pipe an HLS feed into a decent media player is amazing in comparison to the horrific flash player they use :)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :D
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: thing with using kit like that, surely it's just too painful for someone such as yourself who knows what they're doing?
 * bashrc remembers a time when 1GHz was insanely great
<daftykins> i know i can't even tolerate anything non-SSD now
<daftykins> bashrc: i think we all do :)
<daftykins> still recall a mate had a 1GHz AMD Athlon when i had an 800MHz PIII
<daftykins> er, 600 @ 800 :>
<zmoylan-pi> my home pc was a 350mhz amd k6-2 when everyone was using piii's  was an overnight job to rip a cd to mp3s :-)
<bashrc> the bad old days
<daftykins> could that even play >128Kbps in realtime? :)
<zmoylan-pi> nah, it was a grand little system.  it worked and was incredibly cheap
<zmoylan-pi> 16mb ram iirc
<zmoylan-pi> or was it 32...
<bashrc> (queue four yorkshiremen sketch)
<zmoylan-pi> i carried that pc home a few miles on foot... uphill... :-)
<daftykins> in the snow?
<daftykins> it has to be in the snow...
<zmoylan-pi> cut my handy horribly from cheap nasty case
<daftykins> i used to consider that initiation on any new build
<daftykins> it wasn't going to be troubleshooting free unless you'd zipped yourself somewhere along the line
<zmoylan-pi> for me it was static shocks
<daftykins> ouch! guess you had to use static precautions suffering from that?
<daftykins> i should probably take that more seriously, i've never had any issues but who knows if a small bit of carelessness here and there could've brought an untimely demise to my own gear
<zmoylan-pi> only when i was opening them, when i was just installing software i never saw the point till i got zapped
<diplo> I really want to get a SSD for my Dell D820 ( yes I know I need a new laptop at home! )
<daftykins> :) SSDs are great
<diplo> But I can't decide what is the right one for it, discussion seems be different all over
<diplo> Hardware is old
<daftykins> what's so special to complicate an SSD choice?
<diplo> Quite happy with something tiny tbh
<diplo> Age of the laptop afaik
<daftykins> bad enough to be SATA 1.5Gb/sec, or?
<diplo> Will google, not looked in a while
<popey> any ssd will improve that laptop
<daftykins> i'd get yourself a cheap and cheerful Crucial drive if i were you
<daftykins> perhaps a BX100 128GB+
<diplo> yeah, I think it was something to do with ahci ?
<daftykins> oh i wouldn't worry about that, you don't need AHCI capable kit to run an SSD
<diplo> Â£45 sound cheap ?
<daftykins> that Crucial direct? often their own kit is cheaper on amazon
<daftykins> though i might be thinking in my pesky VAT free ways ;)
<diplo> nah first link clicked ( pixmania I think, checking amazon now )
<diplo> Â£49 on Amazon
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> may i see?
<popey> I'd avoid pixmania
<daftykins> bit iffy is it? i was never sure based on the site
<popey> I bought something from them and they wanted a scan of my passport
<daftykins> :S
<diplo> hehe looking on other machine but Anmazon will do.. quite happy with that
<daftykins> that sounds ridiculous
<diplo> Really?!?! I probably wouldn't use them then
<diplo> I'll order one up later
<diplo> Quite happy if they did a smaller one, I sync my claibre library and use terminator on it and that's about it :)
<diplo> But they've come down loads in price now!!
<daftykins> is this the kind of target machine? http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Latitude-D820-2160-60gb/dp/B001QVDPN6
<daftykins> they certainly have, only going to get better too
<diplo> Yup, looking at link ( just opening! ) has a 60gb drive currently
<daftykins> the advent of third generation 3D V-NAND already from Samsung is really pushing the capacity and reliability
<diplo> yeah apart from the Quadro, that's it
<daftykins> *nod* a BX100 would pep it up very nicely
<zmoylan-pi> my god 60gb... my usb drive is bigger than that... :-)
<daftykins> XD
<diplo> And mine has a 2.* CPU
<diplo> Would like to put more ram in it, but last time I checked it was oh my expensive :)
<daftykins> mmm probably DDR2 still?
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: It was good in its time :) spend most of my money on kids stuff not mine
<diplo> Yep
<daftykins> i'm still running my 8 year old core 2 quad, thankfully got 8GB RAM in each this and my core 2 duo file server
<daftykins> ah no server has 4GB actually
<daftykins> much to my VMing dismay
<zmoylan-pi> nothing sucks up ram quicker than a vm... or a badly written adobe app...
<daftykins> or a modern browser :D
<zmoylan-pi> in the case of browsers is it the browser or the sites that assume that you'll only ever have their page open?
<daftykins> :) a client likes keeping the FT open, along with around 20 articles he's never going to get around to reading, the flash ads in the pages were causing firefox to crash at least daily until i put an adblocker on
<zmoylan-pi> that's the internets way of reminding you to install an ad blocker or a flash blocker
<daftykins> having a decent spec machine is making him develop some very bad habits :D
<bashrc> flash is evil
<daftykins> mmm, could've achieved the same by enabling 'ask to activate' on flash i guess
<diplo> Can't get ride of software running in rendering mode on Mint, only want to take screenshots.. I don't care :D
<Buntusimpleton> pls can someone help me by talking me through installing a tarball
<popey> Buntusimpleton: what is it you're trying to install?
<Buntusimpleton> mendeley
<Buntusimpleton> its a reference managing program (am writing my dissertation)
<popey> there's a deb for ubuntu
<popey> https://www.mendeley.com/download-mendeley-desktop/ubuntu/instructions/
<Buntusimpleton> thanks popey
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Bah
<davmor2> bigcalm: okay we heard you the first time ;)
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Trigger happy
<TwistedLucidity> emacs
<davmor2> bigcalm: try using a keyboard an mouse rather than a gun it might be better
<TwistedLucidity> Rats, wrong window
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: oh your the user
<diplo> hehehe
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> Error: unresolvable <alias> to isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> Not that I use anything other than LTS these days
<davmor2> bigcalm: https://imgflip.com/i/s2nku
<bigcalm> davmor2: this Thursday or next week?
<davmor2> bigcalm: 22nd
<bigcalm> Oh, yes. Late in the month
<bigcalm> It was only 10.10 that was released on the 10th
<diddledan> mernign
<popey> pip pip
<zmoylan-pi> *beep beep*
<Myrtti> bleep
<daftykins> time to go fill out 20 forms in triplicate at the post office to send a hard disk for RMA Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> think i'd find it easier posting a homemade clock *whistle*
 * zmoylan-pi digs whole in bog for forms to be composted in
<Myrtti> I just filled out a form online and now I have to wait for a letter that's going to tell me to mail my passport away
<davmor2> popey: Tallyho
<zmoylan-pi> i was tempted to send this clock to a mate in the uk... :-) http://www.waycoolgadgets.com/dynamite-alarm-clock/
<zmoylan-pi> from ireland...
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: wow
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I want one
<NET||abuse> hey guys. i'm having a little xorg trouble. i have xps 15, intel/nvidia optimus machine
<NET||abuse> i upgraded from 14.10 to 15.04 and i had bumblebee working pretty well, and intel performance seemed fine, but i'm getting 1. intel video choppyness (youtube/netflix etc) and general lousy performance on desktop once i have a few different apps open.
<NET||abuse> 2. optimus driver issues, device not found errors
<NET||abuse> bumbleed is failing to start
<Myrtti> bumblebee is IMO deprecated anyway
<NET||abuse> ? really
<NET||abuse> @Myrtti by what?
<Myrtti> s/IMO/IIRC/
<NET||abuse> If you recall, ok, but what do you recall it being replaced by?
<NET||abuse>  if there is something else,, awesome, i have to know :)
<daftykins> NET||abuse: by nvidia-prime, has been for ages
<daftykins> install nvidia-331 or above and it should pull in nvidia-prime with it, which'll function well typically on optimus setups with 14.04+
<NET||abuse> are you sure? i thought bumblebee worked in conjunction with optirun or primusrun
<daftykins> probably even 12.04.2 but we don't worry about that ;)
<daftykins> i've been advising and solving peoples issues with optimus laptops in #ubuntu for a couple of years now, pushing nvidia-prime
<daftykins> so yeah
<Myrtti> the HiDPI problems still are infuriating
<NET||abuse> I think this is something i'm just a bit unclear of,, i want to use intel for my desktop and just use the nvidia card for an accelerated apps.
<daftykins> there is still a lot of variance in optimus implementations of course
<Myrtti> I'm just happy I've got XPS13 9333, not XPS15 9540 or whatever my husband has
<daftykins> yeah nvidia-settings will gain some choice settings once -prime is on
<NET||abuse> i thought nvidia-primus forced the nvidia card to be used from the start of X
<NET||abuse> or am I wrong and nvidia-primus allows for card switching?
<daftykins> Myrtti: ah now you've had a lot more time with it, have you gotten anything close to the 12hrs (QHD) or 15hrs (FHD) Windows does?
<daftykins> not primus, nvidia-prime :)
<NET||abuse> oh right.
<NET||abuse> daftykins: so nvidia-prime DOES allow card switching, so i can run intel for most stuff,, and then nvidia for games/ high res video playback, or something.
<daftykins> i can only suggest giving it a go, i own an optimus laptop myself but don't run Linux on it
<daftykins> i think so yeah
<Myrtti> daftykins: well it seems to last a considerable time but I've not really tested it that much, I doubt 15hrs is close to reality tho
<daftykins> it truly is in Windows
<daftykins> i'm talking real world, review on anandtech.com
<Myrtti> yeah I doubt it's reality on Ubuntu
<daftykins> *nod*
<Myrtti> I can try the next time I try to control our 3D printer with Octoprint :-D
<Myrtti> pending on when we get our home office sorted and cleaned, it's a semi chaotic dumpster right now
<daftykins> no wired LAN is still a dealbreaker for me though :)
<Myrtti> dsample had to resort into using an old USB-to-Ethernet bobble when he reinstalled Ubuntu on the weekend
<NET||abuse> daftykins: plugable usb3 gigabit usb adapter :)
<daftykins> yeah those aren't acceptable to me.
<NET||abuse> fair nuff, seen some good usb extenders with built in gig ethernet adapters too
<daftykins> imo Dell made a huge mistake there, because even the Lenovo X1 carbon has wired still there, just a little adapter cable to reduce the socket
<Myrtti> I just value the portability so much. It's been such a pleasure to have a laptop so light when traveling
<daftykins> i tried amazon for 10gigE cards and switches today :D still not a thing :(
<daftykins> or not reasonable, anyway
<NET||abuse> haha, that would be awesome
<daftykins> mmm, my few year old asus isn't bad - https://www.asus.com/media/global/products/9g7Gx4mX49JhUUJ7/P_500.jpg
<NET||abuse> Myrtti: yeh, i've switched back and forward btween the 13 and the 15,,, the 13 is really excellent portability wise
<Myrtti> this reminds me of an Amazon search I meant to do
<daftykins> that's the one with optimus
<Myrtti> NET||abuse: that, and because I don't really play games, the non-hassle of having just plain Intel sealed the deal for me
<daftykins> i got a 12.5" Lenovo X240 for a client, he loves it but it's still got some thickness and heft to it
<NET||abuse> I'd love to have a look at one of those.
<daftykins> got the X1 carbon for his wife as she needed portability over all else, really
<daftykins> both were about Â£1,200 without VAT too
<Myrtti> also, eBay is a great thing. We bought this XPS13 last year from eBay refurber and it has onsite Dell support
<NET||abuse> old xps 13?
<daftykins> mmm i was quite jealous of that :)
<daftykins> would've worked out very cheap
<Myrtti> NET||abuse: 9333
<NET||abuse> ahhh, i got the 9343
<Myrtti> http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ecomputers.ltd?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
<NET||abuse> it's been absolutely excellent
<Myrtti> hubby bought the XPS15 straight from Dell
<Myrtti> he's had quite a bit of trouble with his
<daftykins> omw, there's an FHD 9343 on there right now for Â£780 :O
<NET||abuse> yeh, i want the higher dpi UHD screen
<daftykins> i'd rather the 15hrs battery 8D
<NET||abuse> but the batery will run for sooo long with the FHD
 * arsenip pokes daftykins with his macbook12 :p
<bashrc> cmake -D CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=RELEASE -D CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/local -D WITH_FFMPEG=OFF -D WITH_QT=OFF -D WITH_OPENGL=ON ..
<daftykins> arsenip: pfft
<daftykins> arsenip: i'm over on Thursday if you're not busy :o
<arsenip> orly, where at?
<daftykins> gatwick ~9am
<daftykins> will be headed for Brighton for the eve, but not got any plans for the day now
<arsenip> just for the day?
<daftykins> nah 'til Monday
<davmor2> hmmm proper home made Jamaican curried chicken from someone who knows how to cook it is glorious
 * directhex hands davmor2 a goat corpse
<davmor2> directhex: don't tempt me she does that better than the chicken
<diddledan> this is pretty accurate: https://xkcd.com/1181/
<davmor2> diddledan: No it's not obvious enough
<foobarry> how can i watch the panorama that was just on?
<foobarry> iplayer doesn't have it yet
<diddledan> foobarry: I think you just have to wait
<StevenR_> foobarry: wait for an hour or so
<popey> you can watch it now
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone
<diddledan> that was quick
<popey> it shows you the current and previous programmes at the bottom of the streaming bit
<popey> no, its not that
<popey> you can "rewind" to previous programmes
<diddledan> aah
 * diddledan watches
<foobarry> did the washing up
<foobarry> now ready to watch :D
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> housework! >.<
<foobarry> greasy roast chicken dishes and emptying the kitchen bin
<foobarry> and load the dishawasher
<foobarry> man points
<foobarry> actually no points. just life :(
<diddledan> wait? they're reboobing macguyver?
<diddledan> daily fail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3260663/Popular-80s-series-MacGyver-gets-reboot-Furious-7-director-James-Wan-helm.html
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-06
<zmoylan-pi> and all it will take to reboot mcguyver is a paperclip a pocket knife and a dismantled vhs recorder...
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> i really want this to put up beside sledge hammer on my wall... http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/18/the-macgyver-multitool/ :-D
<diddledan> the new tesla has a "bioweapon defence button"
<diddledan> http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/30/9421719/tesla-model-x-bioweapon-defense-mode-button
<zmoylan-pi> well if it doesn't work they won't be able to sue
<diddledan> apparently android 6 dropped earlier today?
<diddledan> for the impatient: https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
<m0nkey_> wut? not for a nexus 4?
<diddledan> seems not
<m0nkey_> Wow, Nexus 7 gets it.
<diddledan> only the 2013 n7, not the 2012 model
<m0nkey_> I got a 2013
<diddledan> haha: http://uk.businessinsider.com/difference-between-porn-habits-of-ios-and-android-users-2015-10?r=US&IR=T (safe, tho the links on that page aren't)
<zmoylan-pi> and windows phone users are masochists? :-P
<diddledan> \o/
 * zmoylan-pi considers that somewhere on the planet there is a person who has used win ce 1,2,3, pocket pc 95,95, winmobile 5,6,6.5, winphone 7, 8... and LIKES it... ::shudders::
<zmoylan-pi> my life is empty now that i've seen this knife block :-D https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/sht-happens-sometimes-26.png?w=600&h=806
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-1i: awesome knife blocvk
 * diddledan stabs zmoylan-pi
<diddledan> I'm guessing it's caeser?
<diddledan> of the julian variety
 * diddledan proddy prod
<zmoylan-pi> et tu diddledan?
<diddledan> brutus
<zmoylan-pi> beware the steaks in march
<diddledan> it's the ides I'm worried about
<diddledan> the ides are the worst!
 * zmoylan-pi looks at visual studio >_>
<zmoylan-pi> and eclipse >_>
<Guest32534> morning
<MooDoo> hello even
<diddledan> m00
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> what time is the Microsoft thingy this afternoon?
<diddledan> and.. why is september/october such a hotbed of announcements every year these days?
<Myrtti> Christmas
<DJOnes> MY cousins birthday is 25th December, I think they're trying to suggest birthday presents for him
<MooDoo> diddledan: it's annoying isn't it, but then again it's my fault our kids were born on the same day 3 years apart lol
<diddledan> haha. MooDoo, that's impressive timing
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
<davmor2> So I have dark horse stuck in my head this morning
<davmor2> popey: is that modern enough for you, I don't think she was even alive in the 80's
<diddledan> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning diddledan
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Mad Hatter Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> ð MooDoo
 * zmoylan-pi wonders were my mercury maze is now... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utPI8r0l6aQ
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlVPNDpNHic
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> couchbase has hit 4.0? :-o
<diddledan> wow I remember when it was in it's infancy
<davmor2> JamesTait: how's that for a blast from the past :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I don't even remember that version.
<davmor2> JamesTait: pfff whippersnapper, I think it was added to a radio version probably bbc and repeated in the 70's and 80's
<zmoylan-pi> some dumb rule that was started for a good reason hanging on and driving people nuts years later...
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, wrong channel :-)
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, that mercury maze looks fun!
<JamesTait> You wouldn't get away with that these days! ð
<zmoylan-pi> it was fun, it really thought you patience and good hand eye cordination.  especially when you used it on long car journies over bumpy roads in 70s ireland
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: or 2015 in the uk
<zmoylan-pi> nah 70s ireland was worse.  an irish company developed suspension to work for armoured cars back then that is now in use in a lot of mine resistant vehicles... :-)
<diddledan> ok, so the speed upgrade that virgin promised this year isn't getting to me until "between april 2016 and september 2016"
<zmoylan-pi> which isn't this year unless you're an accountant... :-)
<diddledan> and I don't get it because new customers seem to be able to already get uit
<diddledan> ref: http://store.virginmedia.com/broadband/vivid.html
<MooDoo> got my email saying jan 2016, but i'm not too bothered 50 to 70
<zmoylan-pi> ah well, new customers are more important than old customers... sad but true
<MooDoo> 50 is ok for me at the moment...my self hosted websites work fine, so i'm happy enough lol
<diplo> Debating the move after xmas to Virgin, maybe it'll stop all the bloomin mail I get from them :D
<zmoylan-pi> they just bought an irish isp so a lot of people found themselves to be virgin customers wether they wanted to or not.  will have to see if they make things worse her
<diplo> Ooh expanding then
<zmoylan-pi> or just vultures waiting for other companies to fail and swooping in...
<davmor2> MooDoo: 100 â 150
 * awilkins is pretty happy with Virgin TBH
<awilkins> The only thing I'd like is for them to unbundle their services
<awilkins> I barely use the landline anymore
<awilkins> barely == never
<zmoylan-pi> no one rings you to do a survey? :-)
<awilkins> Only people who call me on the landline are robots, salesmen, and the ex-wife
<awilkins> And the ex-wife has my mobile number
<awilkins> FOr some reason they don't call mobiles with evil calls as much
<awilkins> Probably costs them more
<diplo> awilkins: Only person who does mine is my mother
<diplo> I check it maybe once a month, have occasionally answer machine messages but 95% of the time I forget to put the phone back on the charger
<awilkins> Gah, old people and their remembering phone numbers
 * zmoylan-pi puts numbers in wallpaper pic of phones
<diplo> Only thing I'd miss from Sky would be Sky Atlantic I think, but as I don't watch TV as much now I'm really not that bothered
<diddledan> sky's dvr just isn't versatile enough for me - I like the ability to stream via plex to anywhere in the world
<zmoylan-pi> so you can watch your tv while on holiday?
<diddledan> so instead I get my tv via "other" sources
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> it would be really nice if plex could somehow get netflix into their ecosystem so I can watch via netflix if they have it or via a less kosher file if they don't
<diddledan> in other news, sonarr is awesome
<diddledan> formally known as nzbdrone
<Myrtti> we just ordered a new Samsung telly
<Myrtti> and get-iplayer is great
<bigcalm> Myrtti: have you got spotify to successfully cast to the chromecast? I can cast youtube no problem. But spotify will see the device, try to connect and just keep playing on the mobile
<Myrtti> bigcalm: we don't currently have any Chromecasts plugged in, waiting for the new ones to be delivered
<Myrtti> I don't even remember where I've put the old ones when I cleared the TV stand last night to make way for the new telly
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> It might be that it doesn't work with the old ones
<bigcalm> I know they are only 30 quid a pop, but I don't know if it's worth it if I already have the old ones
<bigcalm> The only one I would like to get now though is the audio one
<Myrtti> we got two of those and one of the new ones
<Myrtti> was considering more, but then we remembered we've got a Nexus player, too
<zmoylan-pi> more devices watching you than people watching them :-)
<knightwise> yo peeps
 * zmoylan-pi rates knightwise on peeple app as 'hipster' 6/10 :-)
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: something like that
<Myrtti> pwÃ¤Ã¤. well boo. Moto360fW is now available in Google Store.
<Myrtti> only in rose gold :-(
<Myrtti> and moto maker on Motorola's site doesn't have the steel casing :-|
<zmoylan-pi> but but everyone is supposed to want rose gold... :-)
<Myrtti> ew.
<zmoylan-pi> marketing said so
<knightwise> yo peeps
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<popey> yo knightwise
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/AFMDRHN.png
<foobarry> flash must die
<popey> foobarry: http://www.bbc.co.uk/html5
<popey> opt in, job done
<zmoylan-pi> flash will die... every day you use it and take a chunk of the os with it :-)
<foobarry> im on firefox
<foobarry> Sorry, we can't provide you with the HTML5 Player beta because your browser doesn't support Media Source Extensions. Please try another browser.
<zmoylan-pi> and this is after firefox added the drm that we didn't want
<popey> works in ubuntu browser ;)
<diplo> Yeah FF on ubuntu I get the same, chromium works ok with that link though
<popey> Also works on Ubuntu Phone :)
<awilkins> Works in Chrome
<awilkins> Hang on "Ubuntu Browser" ... isn't that Firefox (the default)
<popey> no
<awilkins> Cool, iPlayer works in Chromium... netflix doesn't as yet
<bigcalm> BBC radio still requires flash :(
<popey> yeah
<popey> or an app
<davmor2> app-iness app-iness is a gift that I possess
<diddledan> wow, this hololens demo is impressive
<ali1234> did they make a new one?
<diddledan> they've got monsters breaking through the walls
<diddledan> it's a game tentatively called "project xray"
<diddledan> they're announcing the availability of a developer kit starting early next year at $3000
<diddledan> that's quite a tidy sum
<popey> I like that they originally said that hololens will ship "within the lifetime of windows 10"
<popey> given Windows 10 is effectively a rolling (final) release, that gives them quite a while
<ali1234> valve is going to rule vr
<daftykin1> diddledan: this lass should've gone to specsavers
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> applause for a bent screen?
<daftykin1> yeah i figure something off screen must've happened :>
<daftykin1> wat
<diddledan> see, I wouldn't use it for fitness. I'd use it for random geekiness like "how high am I right now?" rather than "what's the height doing to me"
<daftykin1> client was trying to get me to work out how to view more detailed heartrate info on his fitbit things web dashboard
<daftykin1> i struggle to be motivated to deal with such things
<daftykins> $249, or Â£250 ;)
<daftykins> who is this guy they keep showing resizing a window on his laptop o0
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> he's the windows guy :-p
<diddledan> he's showing you that you can resize windows on windows
<daftykins> whilst you're at a windows live event
<daftykins> so meta
<diddledan> I think panos has taken a bit too much of some substance
<daftykins> yes! he has a novel approach
<daftykins> oh it stays connected huh? that's nice.
<diddledan> liquid cooling?!
<daftykins> *blink*
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> best get to the sewing shop for those pocket extensions
<diddledan> I like that reference to the leaks
<daftykins> hmm that one passed me by?
<daftykins> are those not the shortest arms you've ever seen?
<diddledan> have they had a corporate mandate to take speed before presenting?
<daftykins> must be why Joe Belfiore tweeted that he's at home watching, he must say no
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i spy displayport, HDMI, USB x 3 and something else
<diddledan> power maybe
<daftykins> could be another USB C
<diddledan> so you can charge your phone while docked
<daftykins> this is pretty impressive
<diddledan> yeah I like that
<diddledan> all they're missing is a tablet-dock :-p
<daftykins> would make more sense if that display dock let the phone sit in it, but i suppose that anchors the handset then
 * diddledan wipes the leaking from the corner of his mouth
<diddledan> that looks nice
<diddledan> if I knew music I would be really excited by that app
<daftykins> latest leak: musician's compositions stolen from cloud
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I'm kinda excited that it exists even though I wouldn't be able to use it
<diddledan> what's the price?!
<daftykins> one birrion dorrah
<diddledan> what keeps happening to the audio?
<daftykins> ouch there's that audio glitch again
<daftykins> 16GB RAM at last
<diddledan> I want the one with 1TB and 16GB
<diddledan> with those specs it really would be able to beat my desktop
<daftykins> another little box
<diddledan> nice realtime demo
<daftykins> that model is chugging ;)
<diddledan> surfaceception
<diddledan> a surface within a surface
<daftykins> smooth my posterior
<diddledan> that typecover looks much friendlier to the fingers
<diddledan> the trackpad on the s3 typecover was far too teeny
<diddledan> sound glitch again
<diddledan> I really like the idea of allowing my niece and nephew the ability to use a locked-down account which is totally isolated from my normal day-to-day stuff
<daftykins> you still won't get it back ;)
<diddledan> windows hello would be awesome for them
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> MINE!
<daftykins> i still don't enjoy biometrics in devices
<daftykins> what if i settle my hand there and get my prints lifted! :)
<diddledan> I want one of these
<daftykins> i think it's meant to be silver/grey but looks pink in the light
<daftykins> $899, i3, 4GB, 128GB :P
<diddledan> another?
<daftykins> zomg
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> the leaks didn't know about this one
<daftykins> that hinge looks weird
<diddledan> I think it might fold back
<diddledan> nope, just a funky hinge
<diddledan> looks shiny
<diddledan> 12 hour flattery?
<daftykins> any planet, bold claim!
<diddledan> any known planet
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> same dock
<diddledan> that's a good plan
<diddledan> holy poo that was fast
<daftykins> 300MB/sec is actually quite slow for a PCI-E SSD, i didn't spot whether that was USB attached the external device though
<daftykins> yee-ouch
<diddledan> joe belfiore says there's more
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> what?
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> had a feeling that was coming
<diddledan> I just exclaimed out loud
<diddledan> standing ovulation!
<diddledan> lol - over time
<daftykins> haha breakin' the rules
<diddledan> aah the big honcho
<diddledan> I like that he took a back seat
<diddledan> 110meeeleon is impressive in 10 weeks
<daftykins> did you notice the comment about knowing users are using the netflix app over visiting the site?
<daftykins> speaks of the data reports sending back ;)
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> well there y'go
<daftykins> i used the Edge browser to watch that with funky HLS
<diddledan> the surfacebook starts at $1299 for 128GB/8GB and goes up to $2699 for 512GB/16GB
<daftykins> ouch!
<diddledan> that 1299 should be 1499
<diddledan> I mistoped
<daftykins> reckon Linux'll run well? ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> *detach base*
<daftykins> *panic!*
<diddledan> yey for kernel panics
<daftykins> kinda strikes me as being optimus but-even-worse
<diddledan> there's only the top-end model that comes with 16GB of rams :-(
<diddledan> so you need to stump-up the full whack for a reasonable amount of memory
<daftykins> this is what saddens me about those Dell XPS 13s, being constrained by what other choices you make to improve some components
<daftykins> and 8GB being the max in that thing
 * popey notes he's been yanking linux computers out of docking stations for _years_
<popey> and not triggered kernel panics
<popey> bet those are funky USB3 ones which don't work though :S
<daftykins> i might've been following wrong but i thought the nvidia chip was in the base with the keyboard
<diddledan> yeah the nvidia chip is in the keyboard which can be detached from the main pc
<daftykins> mmm so it'd have to be a bit beefier than USB between, which is what had me thinking it'd be more of a challenge
<diddledan> it'll be a pci-style connection like thunderbolt
<daftykins> android M dev images up for the Nexus 5 and so on o0
<daftykins> newly patched build ending in 'T' for my old Nexus 4 too
<daftykins> nth libstagefright fix ;)
<diddledan> oh dear :-( googley play-doh just tweeted that there's a new twiglet book out
<diddledan> que tweens scrambling to get every last copy
<diddledan> cue**
<daftykins> i just put my new set of 19 books on the shelf :D
<daftykins> retrieved the bookmark from where the cat hid it
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> although I'm not sure that hide-the-bookmark is appropriate for a family-friendly environment
<diddledan> euphemisms ftw!
<diddledan> why do I always read EMEA as Enema?
<diddledan> apparently Adobe have an enema
<daftykins> of the state?
<diddledan> arriving tomorrow: sudo bash -c "iptables -D INPUT -p tcp --dport 5666 -j ACCEPT; iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 5666 -i tun0 -j ACCEPT; iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 5666 -s 89.151.124.104/29 -j ACCEPT; iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 5666 -s 89.151.106.192/28 -j ACCEPT; iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 5666 -s 178.236.158.192/27 -j ACCEPT; iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 5666 -s 89.151.87.8/29 -j ACCEPT; iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 5666 -
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> yeah that was a bad paste
<diddledan> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00Y2JYZOC
<dogmatic69_> Hi all
<dogmatic69_> anyone had luck doing a remote session to ubuntu?
<dogmatic69_> apparently got to use another desktop manager? xfce
<brobostigon> remote session? X-redirction or something like vnc?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dogmatic69_> brobostigon: well just using windows remote for example to connect to home pc
<dogmatic69_> I have it working with xfce, set in .xsession, but some things are annoying. eg: chrome is open on my actual pc, so I cant open chrome.
<dogmatic69_> well, I can but it opens on my main desktop, and not the remote connection :/
<brobostigon> well, there are many possibilies, we need to narrow it down abit,
<dogmatic69_> 14.10 iirc
<brobostigon> also, i have only used ssh redirection, no X-redirection or otherwise.
<dogmatic69> ssh redirection is?
<brobostigon> example, redirection traffic over and ssh connection, so my machine at home thinks its connected to my server directly rather than via the internet inbetween, ie like a vpn etc.
<dogmatic69> sure thing. but I want GUI and not just terminal
<dogmatic69> I have seen there is ways to do it over ssh also, but need to get it working properly first :)
<brobostigon> as i said, there are different ways, we need more information as to the method.
<dogmatic69> ok, I installed xrdp locally
<dogmatic69> and then using windows remote desktop to connect
<brobostigon> rdp, ok.
<dogmatic69> got my router forwarding some random port to local:rdp port
<dogmatic69> I dont mind changing if there is something better than xrdp
<dogmatic69> It is just from tutorials on the web I followed
<dogmatic69> From what I have read, Unity just cant do remote desktop
<daftykins> i hope not 14.10, that's been EOL a while ;)
<dogmatic69> daftykins: I upgraded from 14.04 -> 14.10 and it almost killed everything. not been brave enough to do a upgrade again...
<daftykins> :S
<directhex> isn't 14.10 EOL?
<dogmatic69> I really need a new ssd and install from clean.. been running this since 10, loads of updates...
<daftykins> since about July?
<directhex> yes, as of july
<directhex> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2015-July/000197.html
<dogmatic69> might checkout gnome3
<dogmatic69> maybe rdp works with that...
<directhex> i use rdp fine
<directhex> using xfreerdp. rdesktop doesn't support ssl
<SupaYoshi> Hi!
<SupaYoshi> I have an offtopic question relating ISP's in the UK (Talk Talk or Plus Net) and I'd like to know what channel I'd have to go too
<daftykins> just ask
<m0nkey_> I think theres a channel on Dalnet or QuakeNet, something in relation to ThinkBoardband. I don't recall, it's been a while.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-07
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Classic today Shakespears Sister Stay
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ow am ya?
<MooDoo> cracking mate, not bad at all
<davmor2> is it just me that pictures MooDoo waving his plasticine fists either side of head doing a wallace voice when he says Cracking?
<zmoylan-pi> break out the cheese and crackers for a test...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I hear a distant cracker crumbling and the sound of a Cracking Cheese Gromit!
<bashrc> wensleydale?
<zmoylan-pi> what else?
<Myrtti> white stilton mmmmmm
<zmoylan-pi> then it wouldn't be wallace...
<davmor2> nice piece of cheddar or Wensleydale
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Frappe Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi throws a soggy tea bag at JamesTait 
 * JamesTait composts it.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ICtCO8TCw
<JamesTait> o_O
<davmor2> JamesTait: Lipstick stains still on her coffee cup
<JamesTait> Blimey, that's stretching.
<davmor2> JamesTait: it was that or aggadoo again
<zmoylan-pi> i used to use a random mp3s to wake me up till the theme of jaws was one mornings selction... gave up soon after that... :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: you come up with cappuccino day next and you'll see a stretch
<davmor2> JamesTait: I might actually have to think about it
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/07/argos-uk-wide-same-day-deliveries/
<popey> wonder if they have anything worth buying
<zmoylan-pi> i buy a tonne of stuff from argos, usb drives, ext hard drives, laptops.  great bargins in the 2-3 weeks before a new catalog comes out
<zmoylan-pi> and their returns policy isn't too bad.  went back with a dodgy seagate ext drive and replaced no quibble.  ditto a hp netbook which took a week to show an error saying it's hard drive was wonky.
<zmoylan-pi> i also got a 5" kobo ereader their for â¬50 which was a bargin
<davmor2> popey: I got my test router from there when pc world, currys, apollo, and maplins let me down with only having routers of Â£70+
<zmoylan-pi> cheap, cheerful and good returns policy.  what else do you want? :-)
<popey> interessin
<popey> I never even think of shopping there
<zmoylan-pi> it's kinda considered real working class but what does that matter when they have what you want?
<davmor2> popey: I'm actually starting to think of it first again now and then compare everyones prices to theirs :)
<zmoylan-pi> when i need something for the house or computing i check them first... then look elsewhere if i can't see something i like. easy to flip through paper catalog...
<popey> well that's annoying.
<popey> just found something i bought for 270 quid on amazon
<popey> 200 on argos :S
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: look online instead they have stuff in all the time that isn't in the paper catalogue
<davmor2> popey: you're welcome
<popey> oh, no, different model
<popey> phew
<popey> stand down :)
<zmoylan-pi> true davmor2 but i like to have a shufty through paper copy as a habit
<popey> yeah, my kids love flicking through the catalog
<zmoylan-pi> they even have smart watches in their now
<popey> i bought something from ebay and I'm worried it a) won't arrive or b) will be broken or c) won't be the thing it says in the description :S
<popey> (it was supposed to arrive yesterday and didn't)
<bashrc> don't sweat the small stuff
<popey> heh
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Did you use PayPal?
<TwistedLucidity> If so, I have found them to be awesome when the seller messes up.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> As for Amazon, they're no longer always the cheapest (insert snide remark about VAT here)
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Greeting homonid
<brobostigon> morning TwistedLucidity
<TwistedLucidity> One thing I like about Argos is being able to order x,y,z and have it delivered to the local store; then I can collect it when out doing the shopping.
<TwistedLucidity> That's much more convenient than having a delivery driver turn up at an unknown time and two large dogs charge the door to find out who this human is, why are they here and do they have any biscuits?
<popey> TwistedLucidity: yes, but I want the thing :)
<popey> it was 180 quid when I paid, i went back to look at it two days later and the price hiked to 280 quid
<popey> which makes me wonder if they mispriced it
<TwistedLucidity> If they actually took payment, that's their problem. If they were going to claim error on their part, you should have heard by now.
<diddledan> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<diddledan> joy: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/10/06/peeple-goes-into-hiding-to-retool-the-app
<diddledan> it's not dead yet!
<zmoylan-pi> but it's such a good idea that would never be used to hassle people /sarcasm
<popey> "yay"
 * TwistedLucidity creates 25,000 sock puppet accounts, votes self as "Most super-awesome person on planet", profit?
<zmoylan-pi> remember to use real phone numbers, get them from a hacked database online :-)
<popey> yay, windows support call
<zmoylan-pi> 1) turn if off and on again
<zmoylan-pi> 2) see #1
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: The Ashley Madison dump good enough?
<zmoylan-pi> that'll do nicely
<Myrtti> 55 inch tv is scary after several years of 32 inch
<zmoylan-pi> you could script it up in perl 6 TwistedLucidity.  it'll be a mark of the end times :-)
<zmoylan-pi> having to turn your head to see different sides of the screen? :-)
<popey> ooh, i have to press windows+r
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: I recommend Mr. Scroggins' eye-expanders so you can take it all in.
<zmoylan-pi> or sit further away so it occupies the same space the 32" did in your field of vision :-)
<TwistedLucidity> I actually calculated our desired screen size based on viewing distance....
<zmoylan-pi> outside the window of curry's? :-D
<TwistedLucidity> One thing I don't get about "Peeple"...how can they guarantee "no negative reviews". Have people forgotten Scott Adams and his Dogbert character?
<popey> my computer contains more than 1000 errors!
<popey> according to this indian chap
<TwistedLucidity> "TwistedLucidity's contribution had a lasting impact on copany profits."
<zmoylan-pi> gosh! givee him the credit card number you just made up to fix it!!
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Oh noes! Teh viruses!
<popey> ooh, now I'm using msconfig
<popey> I'm an expert
<TwistedLucidity> I really should create a honeypot VM in case they ever call me.
<popey> ditto
<TwistedLucidity> Give it a desktop background with something like "Interpol Phone Fraud Task Force".
<popey> ooh, there are stopped services!
<TwistedLucidity> All I get are insurance scams. B-o-r-i-n-g-!
<zmoylan-pi> have os/2 running in a vm and have them walk you through that :-)
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Please tell us you are recording this.....
<popey> sadly not
<popey> home phone
<TwistedLucidity> Poop
<popey> ooh, transferring me to an expert
<TwistedLucidity> An expensive expert....
<popey> recording now
<TwistedLucidity> He he he he
<zmoylan-pi> talk really really slow....
 * TwistedLucidity high fives popey
<zmoylan-pi> put rick astley on in background... :-)
<davmor2> popey: It's not a scam honest gov'nor
<popey> well, that escalated quickly
<popey> he called me an effing bar steward
<davmor2> popey: hahahahaha
<zmoylan-pi> now record the lenght of the call and next time it happens try and keep them on longer... :-D
<davmor2> popey: he must have you on google + and know you ;)
<popey> phoned me back :)
<zmoylan-pi> though the best response was the guy who pretended to be cops at a crime scene and demanded to know what relationship the junk caller had with the person at the scene...
<davmor2> popey: how the call back going?
<popey> at one point he said I'm too stupid to own a computer
<davmor2> popey: hahahaha
<popey> accused me of stealing this one
<zmoylan-pi> oh i don't own a computer, i rent mine :-P
<popey> went a bit mental
<popey> zmoylan-pi: oh, you're too stupid too, join the club
<davmor2> popey: he really does know you then ;)
<davmor2> popey: This is comedy gold it really is :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> evening
<bigcalm> Yay home time!
<diddledan> popey I love those phone calls
<diddledan> popey it's always fun to play stupid
<diddledan> now where's my delivery>
<diddledan> ?
<diddledan> ergh: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9006988/Mass-suicide-protest-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html
<diddledan> I'm glad that the environment is improving, but this proves how far we still need to go
<diplo> thaty was 2012, think things have had to cahnge down there
<diddledan> oh. then why did they tweet it earlier?!
<diddledan> silly twitterers
<diplo> I swear I just read posted date was 2012 when I read it a mo ago, I could be wrong
<diplo> :D
<diplo> By Malcolm Moore, in Shanghai12:04PM GMT 11 Jan 2012
<diddledan> yeah you're right it definitely says 2012
<diplo> Probably happened again :/
<diddledan> but the twits mentioned it as though it was new so I read it and reposted it in here
<diddledan> I didn't check the date :-/
<awilkins> This is the working model we're being encouraged to adopt by Our Glorious Leaders!
<awilkins> Presumably Health & Safety will have guidelines for the anti-suicide netting that will be required.
<awilkins> It should definitely be up to BSI standards
<diddledan> awilkins, espeially as the DWP is making suicidal folk return to work
<awilkins> Next Trade Union Bill : attempted suicide only legal if 40% of your co-workers really hate you.
<awilkins> Or you get 3 poor performance reports in a row
<diddledan> lol: https://youtu.be/U-aVkMClvBs
<Oli> Does anybody know about a bodged-and-recalled python3 update on 14.04 in the last 24 hours? I've just seen two questions on Ask Ubuntu about ending up on  the trusty-proposed version without enabling trusty-proposed.
<popey> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500768
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1500768 in python3.4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "python3.4.3 SRU break requests" [High,Triaged]
<diddledan> so I'm leaving in 15 minutes and my parcel still hasn't arrived :-(
<bashrc> #parcelangst
<diddledan> haha, speak of the devil
<Oli> Thanks popey!
<davmor2> man the devil delivers diddledan stuff no wonder he's so evil ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> and I'm late leaving
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah but your smiling :)
<Adriannom> hi. i have a fresh install of 14.04 using nvidia drivers. whatever screen resolution i set changes back to "auto" on reboot. how do i change the resolution permanently? write to /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
<davmor2> Adriannom: where are you setting it?
<daftykins> you shouldn't have a xorg.conf at all
<Adriannom> davmor2, nvidia-settings
<daftykins> use the ubuntu display settings prog
<Adriannom> ok, rebooting, brb
<Adriannom> thanks guys that was it :)
<daftykins> np
<Azelphur> So good news on my Korean monitor escapade, I got my money back from lightnsale (The take my money and run guy) got a response from another eBay seller (dream-seller) and he agreed to give me 3% off for all 4 monitors. I'm also buying a newer model, the AMH A409U at only Â£30 more than what I would have paid for them off lightnsale
<daftykins> that's good!
<popey> davmor2: is your hudl2 busted? Mine (on reboot) is stuck on the hudl* screen, never actually finishes booting
<davmor2> nope mine is good
<popey> bah
<popey> http://ttselectrical.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4011/related/1
<popey> cleared cache, finally boots!
<davmor2> popey: yay
<popey> phew!
<popey> Good on Tesco for having a decent support site geared towards idiots
<popey> (like me)
<daftykins> must take a fair chunk to do the app optimising step on those things if they're all encrypted as that page states
<davmor2> popey: now come on it's not your fault you have no idea how to use computers and steal them
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> popey: I hoped you clicked on the yes it was useful button
<davmor2> just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBYjZTdrJlA
<diddledan> evening
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> yesterday's agents of shield was fun
<diddledan> just fini watching
<zmoylan-pi> must gett his weeks muppets...
<diddledan> meh
<diddledan> drupal8 is now at RC status
<diddledan> and some dude called max has a furry driveway
<diddledan> (he called it: mad max's fury road)
<diddledan> has there been a solar flare? (apparently the northerners can see the aurora as far south as prestatyn)
<diddledan> and the brecan beacons are also able to see it
<zmoylan-pi> people saying in ireland as far south as peoples republic of cork
<diddledan> nasa are firing giant wily werewolfs into space again: https://www.ustream.tv/embed/13567824?html5ui
<zmoylan-pi> i say we send a ship with putin, obama and cameron to sun to fix it
<diddledan> I think we should bump them off first else they'll end-up politicising and removing the rocket's benefits
<zmoylan-pi> we just label the rocket an illegal immigrant and they'll want to deport it from earth
<diddledan> imagine the red tape if the vulcans arrived
<diddledan> "what do you mean you don't have a passport?"
<zmoylan-pi> one of my favourite lines from trek was paris telling the crew of tuvok trying to use pure logic to avoid a parking ticket
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> avg are gonna sell your data: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/10/week-avg-flogs-web-browsing-search-history/
<zmoylan-pi> went off avg a long time ago.  still have the t-shirt though :-)
<diddledan> https://cdn-grahamcluley.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/metadata.jpeg
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> well done, eff!
<diddledan> the whole video is here: https://youtu.be/BMwPe2KqYn4
<diddledan> 10seconds
<diddledan> it blew up
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> by eck it's fast
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-08
<diddledan> eh? sherlock special with the normal bbc cast but in victorian london instead of the present...
<diddledan> this reminds me of pentatonix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSj_eS1Sqww
<diddledan> teehee: https://twitter.com/WilliamChyr/status/651869361603522560
<mapppppppps> Hi
<mapppppppps> Finally get internet today yay
<mapppppppps> :)
<mapppppppps> They're coming to install it at 9am
<mapppppppps> 3 weeks with no net at home urgh ive been downloading my tv eps by standing outside places at 5am using their wifi :)
<mapppppppps> Finished my downloads yau
<mapppppppps> Can go in now lol looks odd standing outside
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning davmor2 / all :)
<davmor2> So musical revelation of the day, I have let her go stuck in my head and I knew it reminded me of another song and couldn't think what turns out it was Luka by susan vega
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy World Sight Day! ð   ð   ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSsqWHtg7Ig
<JamesTait> Apt, given the grey skies of the last couple of days seem to have cleared up.
<davmor2> JamesTait: or you could go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd85aPZ-QAE
<JamesTait> First one was better. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: I didn't say it wasn't I just said you could go with it :)  There is also the version from cool runnings too that was sung by someone else but I prefer the original :)
<awilkins> Is there a paramiko package version >=1.15 for Trusty, maybe in a PPA somewhere?
<awilkins> Can't get a tunnel working on MySQL Workbench because paramiko 1.10 isn't compatible with OpenSSH 6.7 on Vivid
<awilkins> And GAH Debian helpfully patches `pip` so that it won't upgrade libraries "owned by the OS"
<arsenip> daftykins  i'm pretty stuck in work :<
<MooDoo> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<popey> evening bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hello my lovelies
<popey> Thing bought from ebay arrived!
<popey> and works!
<popey> \o/
<m6lpi> always nice when 'slightly used' means that and not a smouldering pile of bits...
<foobarry> vmware installer not working for me, dumping core. tried strace and gdb core (doesn't recognise file format)
<foobarry> any other ideas?
<bigcalm> Why I tend to by from tech companies that refurbish hardware
<diplo> foobarry: Upgrading or fresh installing ?
<foobarry> vmware horizon client
<foobarry> 3.5 the new 64 bit version
<foobarry> works on one machine but not other, think its package missing
<foobarry> might be a gtk3/2 thing
<diplo> Not used that, but it appears it should normally dump the log of issues in /tmp ?
<foobarry> yeah, no errors though :(
<foobarry> attempt to lock mutex that was not locked
<foobarry> goes to stderr
<diplo> Sucks a bit, guess you pay for support ?
<diplo> If so maybe worth a ticket?
<foobarry> ah, only 12.04 supported for the 64 bit version :-|
<foobarry> 14.04 supported for the 32 bit
<diplo> ia32 libs ?
<foobarry> i've used --console mode to install it
<foobarry> seems OK now
<foobarry> not sure what was causing the gui fail for the intaller and not he real app
<diddledan> merning
<diddledan> quit in here today again
<diddledan> quiet*
<bigcalm> Shhhh
<diddledan> sorry :-p
 * brobostigon lets of an air raid siren
<brobostigon> off*
<bigcalm> Better than *off
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I'll just drop this here: http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/local-news/britains-area-51-been-found-10209824
<zleap> isn't hampshire where the SAS are based?
<diddledan> I would expect the sas are over in wiltshire
<diddledan> i.e. salisbury
<zleap> ok
<zleap> hereford
<zleap> according to wikipedia
<diddledan> yey wiki!
<diddledan> wiki is all knowing
<zleap> yeah
<diddledan> I think man have created a new God in wikipedia :-p
<zleap> oracle
<zleap> however you still need to cross reference stuff if doing research
<diddledan> does that mean there's a neo somewhere, too?
<zleap> not just rely on wikipedia
<diddledan> that's too much hard work
<diddledan> wiki and done
<zleap> diddledan: i thought oracle was a term used to describe someone that knows a lot of stuff about things
<diddledan> :-p
<zleap> if this was the matrix we could simply upload wikipedia
<diddledan> ooh, good idea
 * diddledan jacks-in
<diddledan> hmm, wrong disk. I now know kung fu instead.
<zleap> scp wikipedia.com /human/diddedan:/memory
<zleap> or something like that
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> scp wikipedia diddledan@Nebuchadnezzar:/brain
<zleap> yeah
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> gotta get the syntax right :-p
<zleap> i was just going to say i never can get it right,  irritating when trying to copy files from a virtual machine for example
<popey> Kinda wish I'd ordered a Steam controller now
<awilkins> popey, Allegedly my Steam Controller has shipped but all the courier has is the parcel registration
<directhex> awilkins: same for everyone
<directhex> they aren't arriving until enxt week
 * awilkins shrugs
<awilkins> I have an XBox contoller
<awilkins> I imagine the Steamtroller takes some getting used to anyway
<directhex> definitely
<directhex> radically differenty
<popey> Friday apparently.
<diddledan> argh, I just started talking to myself. I think I might have finally completely lost the plot.
<popey> I do that all day
<popey> I pass it off as talking to the cats
<popey> Also, I do silly sound effects when I'm doing things, like opening the fridge and stuff
<diddledan> hehe
<popey> Forgot Sophie was here the other day (off school sick) and she went "what!?" when I made a Star Trek door opening sound effect opening the fridge
<popey> "Oh, nothing"
<popey> "Did you just make a sound effect when you opened the fridge?"
<popey> "maybe"
<popey> "You're odd"
<popey> She's learning
<diddledan> lol, class
<Myrtti> bah.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-09
<diddledan> there's a "tremors 5"?!
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't even seen 4...
<zmoylan-pi> i must have a rummage in dvd shops in dublin...
<Seeker`> I'm not convinced they can be good films :P
<Seeker`> 1 was awesome though
<zmoylan-pi> 2 was excellent and 3 had it's moments
<zmoylan-pi> worth a punt on buying 4 on dvd
<zmoylan-pi> i also recommend the movies, malcolm and the gods must be crazy as movies most people have never heard of but are very good
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> yo
 * davmor2 has this stuck in his head this morning amongst many others https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM  Late 80's and early 90's dance mash up today me thinks 
<davmor2> corona this is the rhythm of the night
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Curious Events Day! ð
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN7JzGC-yw4
<davmor2> JamesTait: or anything by curiosity killed the cat, down to earth, free or misfit
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: OMG you are on and it's morning
<bigcalm> davmor2: stranger things have happened at sea
<bigcalm> You know I'm now likely to idle for the next 8 hours
<davmor2> bigcalm: so a normal day then?
<bigcalm> Aye
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> \o
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<bashrc_> hello earthlings
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Ice Ice Baby
<SuperEngineer> anyone know title/name of the Linux Voice podcast theme tune [BradSucks is the artist]
<SuperEngineer> [asked on #linuxvoice but boy is that channel quiet!]
<zmoylan-pi> tis the weekend and everyone is either gone home or asleep
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, & just as that is recieved... so is an answer on linuxvoice :D
<diddledan> oh looks like CBS have canned the halle berry series extant
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-10
<Azelphur> So I have a little mission for ubuntu-uk, where might one buy a fluffy star wars thing, locally?
<Azelphur> (I'm in Margate)
<diddledan> Azelphur: as in a fluffy leia? :-p
<Azelphur> diddledan: after a toy, a fluffy chewbacca would be perfect :P
<diddledan> there might be something in a toys-r-us I guess.
<diddledan> http://www.disneystore.co.uk/soft-toys-toys-chewbacca-medium-soft-toy/mp/66125/1000260/
<Azelphur> nearest toys r us is 2 hours away from me, 4 hours round trip, no good
<diddledan> they do a yoda, too: http://www.disneystore.co.uk/yoda-small-soft-toy/mp/71093/1000260/
<Azelphur> diddledan: you missed the locally part :P
<zmoylan-pi> new star wars movie is out soon. toy stores will have plushie star wars toys... probably happy meals for kids too
<Azelphur> yea but I wanna pick this up tomorrow :P
<zmoylan-pi> check the online stocks of local toy stores?
<Azelphur> amusingly we don't have much in the way of toy stores, :<
<zmoylan-pi> check golden pages, might be one that you never noticed
<Azelphur> Hmm, there's an Argos within range...could be possible
<Azelphur> looks like they have some stuff, victory I think :P
<zmoylan-pi> use ring and reserve to get them to keep it for you if stock is low
<diddledan> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> oh, my hudl2 now runs 5.1
<foobarry> but i lost root :(
<MartijnVdS> my nexus 6 has 6.0
<foobarry> :o
<brobostigon> i bet i will get marshmellow via CM for my nexus 4.
<directhex> wonder if my Z3C will get it
<brobostigon> does it run 5.1 without issues?
<directhex> 5.1.1 has been pretty solid. 5.0 was a disaster
<brobostigon> it should work fine then.
<directhex> if Sony ever bother to bugfix & ship a ROM
<zmoylan-pi> sony ship a rom, current rumour is they're getting out of handset market
<directhex> yeah, that's the rumour. they make $0 per handset
<penguin42> they seem to be selling pretty much everything
<zmoylan-pi> they ued to make great palm os devices to before pulling out of that market
<zmoylan-pi> the cliÃ©
 * zmoylan-pi still has a 30yo fm radio walkman i bought in school used most days
<penguin42> hmm, no, I've not used a cassette player or an fm radio for a while
<zmoylan-pi> i use fm radio most days, dab radio too.  some places still have decent radio stations
<directhex> sony has had an issue of product differentiation and bloated product lines, which means they're culling a LOT of products
<directhex> e.g. 30 near-indistinguishable models of entry-level headset
<directhex> in phones, their issues aren't really with the product, it's the wider issue of the race-to-the-bottom android market
<directhex> they can't afford the marketing (and volume) that samsung can, so they're being pushed out. much like htc, but less bad
<penguin42> they're also selling off their chip and camera divisions though
<penguin42> (and I think I mean the camera module division as used in a lot of phones)
<zmoylan-pi> they only stopped making tape walkmans a few years back
<SuperEngineer> sssh.... it's Woctor Dho time ;)
<penguin42> that sounds like a contradiction
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> ...but Doctor time IS time itself... e=mc2=1
<SuperEngineer> gotcha!
<SuperEngineer> Who composed Beethoven's fifth!
<brobostigon> spoiler
<SuperEngineer> but I could be fibbing of course ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-11
<rakesh123_> Hey there !  I'm trying to boot my ubuntu kernel version 4.04 , It gets hung while booting up at  slice system-systememd\xBacklight.slice
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> d&d today, packs nerf...
<popey> pip pip
<mjayk> pop pop?
<MartijnVdS> popey: installing python stuff? ;)
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> dib dib
<popey> i nearly bought a sherbert dib dab yesterday in Ye Olde Sweete Shoppe in Farnborough.
<popey> but instead got some Finnish licorice.
<popey> nom
<foobarry_> mmm licorice
<penguin42> popey: Now by Finnish licorice you don't mean the odd salt stuff?
<popey> penguin42: ya
<popey> love it
<DJones> Should get some of finnish licorish for my father in law, if he was a horse, he'd put salt on a salt lick block
<moreati> Any bored Chromium users care to take part in an experiment? Should take less than 10 minutes
<samfreenode> hi
<samfreenode> What's a good DE like Gnome or KDE but without a compositor?
<samfreenode> I don't want compositor
<penguin42> samfreenode: You can turn the compositor off on KDE
<samfreenode> penguin42, What if I just disable vsync on compiz, will that do the job?
<samfreenode> penguin42, sorry, accidentally closed my client
<penguin42> samfreenode: no the vsync is separate
<samfreenode> penguin42, Seperate from what?
<penguin42> samfreenode: actually, I can't find the compositor disable in KDE5.x
<samfreenode> How do I make my monitor 144hz?
<samfreenode>  How do I set my monitor to 144hz refresh rate?
<samfreenode> penguin42, Would my mouse input be better for CS:GO if I disable Compiz?
<directhex> what refresh rate is set in your WM's display properties?
<directhex> DE even
 * penguin42 doesn't have one set I don't think - I use xfce on most boxes now - still have this one on KDE though
<directhex> "xrandr | grep \*"
<penguin42> samfreenode: Oh, I found the compositor setting on KDE5 - under display-compositor - you can turn it off
<samfreenode> penguin42, Oh cool
<samfreenode> penguin42, Gonna install KDE and try that
<penguin42> samfreenode: But if you want fast and responsive just install xfce
<samfreenode> penguin42, Should I install Kubuntu-desktop or just KDE?
<directhex> yeah, this is why i don't bother attempting to help some folk. it's just a waste of time
<samfreenode> directhex, Thanks, I fixed it in xrandr
<samfreenode> directhex, xrandr --output DP-4 --mode 1920x1080 --rate 144
<aquarius> who knows about boot issues, such as https://askubuntu.com/questions/684171/error-when-starting-install ?
<samfreenode> penguin42, Where is the compositor setting again?
<samfreenode> penguin42, What's the KDE settings app called?
<samfreenode> penguin42, nvm I find it
<samfreenode> penguin42, Hmmmm looks like I can suspend it for full-screen windows
<samfreenode> penguin42, It seems KDE has a lot more options for configuration>?
<samfreenode> penguin42, I can easily configure the refresh rate and disable the compositor and stuff without reverting to the command line like in Ubuntu Unity
<samfreenode> penguin42, So I think maybe I'll just stick with  Kubuntu, since it's so much easier than Ubuntu
<samfreenode> penguin42: I think I'm getting close to switching from W10 to Linux
<samfreenode> penguin42: I need to figure out how to get proper headphones support in CS:GO still though
<samfreenode> penguin42: I try selecting headphones, and it just defaults to 2 speakers
<directhex> samfreenode: you can set the refresh rate fine in unity. it's in the "Screen Display" app
<samfreenode> directhex: Couldn't find the option
<samfreenode> directhex: I looked
<directhex> aquarius: maybe a broken EFI implementation? they could try forcing legacy mode
<directhex> samfreenode: huh. did it move? it *used* to be there
<aquarius> directhex, sounds plausible to me, but I don't know anything about this stuff; I was hoping to point someone in the direction of that post who knows what they're doing to help ana out
<samfreenode> directhex: IDK
<samfreenode> directhex: I use Kubuntu now anyway
<directhex> aquarius: that would be my instinct - buggy firmwares aren't exactly new
<aquarius> directhex, ah, looks like Ana tried disabling UEFI and it hasn't helped. How annoying that this stuff is still a problem
<directhex> :/
<directhex> computers!
<SuperEngineer> samfreenode, so why aren't you on #kubuntu?
<samfreenode> SuperEngineer: Because I only just installed KDE, I was using Ubuntu before that
<popey> samfreenode: you can also switch off compositing in Ubuntu MATE.
<popey> fwiw
<samfreenode> popey: Sure, I might try MATE
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-10
<daftykins> good morning all
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> TZAG!
<daftykins> quÃ©?
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Time Zone Appropriate Greeting :) (like "Good Evening", or "Mornin'") :D
<daftykins> ah that's a new one on me
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> It was something I used to see on identi.ca a lot.
<daftykins> i used to see that site in social links but never knew what it was
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> It was a self-hosted alternative to Twitter.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning to you too
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<davmor2> Morning all
<Gargoyle> o/
<BigRedS> goood morning!
<foobarry> brrrrr
<daftykins> cold already? :)
<SuperMatt> I was quite happy to come in to the office this morning to find the heating on, however now it's off again and the aircon has kicked in and I was to go on a rampage
<daftykins> sounds like a very conflicted setup :)
<SuperMatt> I just want the warmth to embrace me like a lover
<daftykins> do a few press ups ;)
<foobarry> i have a vest on today
<daftykins> haha
<foobarry> and cashmere sweater
<foobarry> which seems to have shrunk :(
<daftykins> fire the laundy staff
<brobostigon> can i fire myself?
<Gargoyle> Yep.
<Gargoyle> I've done it
<foobarry> http://www.wikihow.com/Unshrink-Clothes
<foobarry> i bet Myrtti has done this kind of thing
<brobostigon> i fire myself then from doing laundry. lol.
<foobarry> unshrinking woollen or cashmere
<davmor2> foobarry: does the label on the jumper say hand wash only, if so then my recommendation is to follow the instructions it's why they are there :P
<foobarry> i didn't do it
<foobarry> my wife dunnit
<foobarry> she also shrunk my favourite tee
<brobostigon> yep, i cant blme my gf for that, i do my own laundry.
<foobarry> its only shurnk in the length a bit
<davmor2> foobarry: what she do throw it all in a boil wash
<foobarry> apparently a gentle wool wash
<foobarry> it would have been mullered on anything else.
<foobarry> just a bit tight and high now
<brobostigon> sounds like you made your own corset accidentally.
<Myrtti> lol, you're joking. I just turned a machineful of laundry green on Friday. on my defence I did put a colour catcher sheet into the wash, too. It just turns out that the item in the wash was so badly dyed it probably would've needed the whole box of sheets.
<Myrtti> and if it's really shrunk and felted, there's not much you can do, apart from upcycling it into something else
<foobarry> its not felted
<foobarry> just riding a bit high on my waist
<foobarry> it stell looks and feels the same
 * diplo wonders if foobarry may have ate to much over the summer :D
<foobarry> i'm pretty much teh same weight as when i was 18
<foobarry> if not a bit less
<TwistedLucidity> Lucky bugger, I'm about 13kg heavier
<TwistedLucidity> It's just latent muscle...
<SuperMatt> I'm about the same weight as I was when I started uni
<SuperMatt> a good 11 and a half stone
<SuperMatt> but it's a whole one stone above my recommended BMI weight
<TwistedLucidity> 88kg here (which is about 13 stone)
<foobarry> i need to gain a 1 1/2 stone
<SuperMatt> but all the exercise in the world can't make me keep that weight
<TwistedLucidity> But then I am 1.94m (6'4") tall
<SuperMatt> I'm a full foot shorter
<TwistedLucidity> My plan is to up exercise slightly, cut back on the booze a bit, let the energy imbalance sort things out
<TwistedLucidity> Then pig-out at Chrimbo! \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and please spare a thought for those in need of support on World Mental Health Day. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers us :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's also just a great song :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, ð
<daftykins> these are gold - < OerHeks> these are funny http://www.boredpanda.com/comedy-wildlife-photography-awards-shortlist-2016/
<foobarry> nice
<daftykins> that's neat, i was having problems with the NFC in my Nexus 5, as i wanted to try out Android Pay - just took it apart and added some tape to pack up the connector on the antenna in the rear case of the phone, works again now :D
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds... reassuring...
<aptanet> Anyone here good with Samba permissions, specifically those that differ between accounts that look to be setup the same?
<daftykins> no, it's a replacement back and so on because this phone had a smashed screen when my mate gave it to me
<aptanet> It is driving me up the wall!
<daftykins> aptanet: perhaps a paste of some info would explain that statement a bit better :>
<aptanet> that will be tricky given my irc client is connected via a vpn to quassel in my office from my tablet and I am connected to the samba server via my laptop!
<daftykins> i was talking about using a pastebin, just do something to demo / explain the issue a bit better
<daftykins> use your loaf :P
<diddledan> mmm, bread
<daftykins> i bought some pancakes at M&S
<diddledan> \o/
<aptanet> basically when I create a directory with my account I get permissions dwrxrwx--- as per smb.conf, but other accounts get dwrxdr-x---
<diddledan> M&S food is teh awesome
<diddledan> err
<daftykins> aptanet: i think i use a force group on mine, other than that dunno
<diddledan> you can't have two d's
<daftykins> heh that's true
<daftykins> drwxrwxrwx
<aptanet> diddledan: sorry, misstype!
<daftykins> never met 'er
<aptanet> got a force directory mode in there already as well as a force group
<daftykins> could be ignoring one, or perhaps your users are not in the same
<aptanet> I'm working on the basis that there is something different with the accounts, the only issue is most accounts not giving group write when they create a directory
<daftykins> time to compare 'em then :)
<aptanet> that's what I have been doing, now looking for more inspiration
<diddledan> create modes are usually dictated by the user's umask
<aptanet> pdbedit shows they are identical as far as samba goes
<aptanet> diddledan: damn, I've been through that but now I find a difference - thanks
<diddledan> \o/
<aptanet> that's one of the things I miss about working for a large company - being able to take a coffee break and talk techie to clear your brain!
<daftykins> so umasks where?
<diddledan> were*
<daftykins> i know they're a user property, but where would you be glancing for issues in samba config?
<diddledan> oic
<diddledan> erm. I would think there be no difference between samba mounts and other mounts as regards to umask
<diddledan> i.e. it is whatever the session has
<daftykins> oh so you're saying whover mounts the share would have that uid bound potentially and throwing it that way?
<diddledan> just run umask in your terminal
<daftykins> that's just giving the current users one though right, how do you take this knowledge and apply it to the issue...
<diddledan> well when you create a file, no matter where that file is, your requested permissions will be filtered through your current umask before the file is created
<aptanet> daftykins: 002 on my account and 022 on the others
<diddledan> the fact that it's a samba mount in this case is irrelevant
<daftykins> but they're never gonna be the same, right?
<daftykins> so what do you even do with that one o0
<aptanet> now the fun bit is working out where it is being set differently, identical .bashrc and .profile files (well, bar starting byoby which shouldn't touch it)
<aptanet> oh fun, changing the umask made no difference
<aptanet> I also realised that it is only on directories not files
<diddledan> there goes my theory then :-)
<aptanet> more digging in the config!
<aptanet> diddledan: it was a promising one, the first notable difference that seemed likely
<aptanet> been a while since I was on irc much, I lived on it back in the 90s and 00s
<Gargoyle> aptanet, Things just go round in circles. You start with IRC, then try MSN, Jabber, Yahoo then come back to IRC for a few years. Then HipChat and Slack are the new cool apps, but eventually, you come back to IRC! ;-)
<aptanet> Gargoyle: I did jabber (still have a prosody server running in the office), but not yahoo or msn
<aptanet> briefly used slack, but hated it - or possibly more the fact that it was too easy for people to ignore/miss messages
<aptanet> I'm still old school and prefer email - imap connected not webmail too :)
<aptanet> irc is good for chatting through issues, although I've tended to be more answering than asking questions in the past
<aptanet> I spent hours on the smoothwall channel back in the day - if anyone remembers that!
<Gargoyle> Nope. I plagued pfSense with all my firewall questions! :-)
<Gargoyle> Spent too many hours on QuakeNet back in the day.
<aptanet> I was involved with smoothwall from the start, and worked for them for a while
<Gargoyle> Nice, is it still going?
<aptanet> I had a bit of a gap in gaming between my Amstrad and an original Playstation
<aptanet> yes, mainly in a commercial sense, but the project is still there
<aptanet> not used it in years, I moved to ipcop for a while and then moved on
<Gargoyle> I played with ipcop a long time ago. Currently running ipfire.
<daftykins> i started with ipcop, went to smoothwall, then the alcatel speedtouch 'modem' stopped working with it so i gave up, by then consumer routers had gone mainstream
<aptanet> I've been using dd-wrt for a while and am playing with openwrt at the moment
<aptanet> first thing was to turn an old dlink dir615 from virgin into a range extender
<daftykins> heh
<aptanet> free old hardware plus free software is great :)
<daftykins> sounds like it could be nasty ol' 2.4GHz 802.11g only
<daftykins> my ISP gave out some nice newer 802.11ac dualband routers a bit ago, only 2:2 stream, but 866Mb is pretty neat
<aptanet> it is, but it has been in use for a few years now
<aptanet> I'll be switching to an old ac netgear and an old ac tplink soon I hope
<daftykins> i didn't used to care, but now i can throw files around when on the laptop at 50MB/sec+ it's quite neat
<daftykins> used to just plug into wired of course :D
<aptanet> the dlink was supposed to be a temporary upgrade from some devolo dlan units that proved very poor performance
<daftykins> oh, powerline?
<aptanet> yes, very poor on my cabling
<aptanet> particularly when a slightly slow 11g was an upgrade in performance!
<daftykins> i've got a cheap tp-link set to go up into the bedroom for my music streamer device / internet radio - does 100Mb just dandy, but my wiring is quite apt
<daftykins> i did have a client with a devolo pair ages ago that seemed to have fallen over every time they wanted to use it
<Gargoyle> Good thing about doing the house refurb, I have cables :-)
<Gargoyle> Wi-Fi and 16" thick 100 year old farmhouse walls don't play nice!
<Gargoyle> Should be able to run 10Gig at some point in the future too (used cat6).
<daftykins> only 100? :) 16th/17th century here
<daftykins> i read some cheaper chips have been produced for the 2 to 5 Gigabit range, could be neat
<diddledan> daftykins: I want your babies^H^H house
<daftykins> diddledan: wat
<diddledan> daftykins: 16th century sounds tasty
<aptanet> my 1950's house seems a bit new!
<aptanet> although the rate they're building round here it is beginning to feel like an old timer compared to others around!
<daftykins> :)
<aptanet> not easy balancing a tablet and separate keyboard while sitting in the driver's seat
<daftykins> concerned i heard death watch up in my roof the other day mind you
<daftykins> (the woodworm)
<aptanet> not that I'm driving I hasten to add!
<aptanet> we've had mice, but they are quite easy to catch and re-home
<foobarry> mice keep respawning
<foobarry> and get clever after a while
<foobarry> completely avoiding food on traps
<diddledan> foobarry: you need to figure-out the respawn points and then camp there with your BFG5000 ready
<foobarry> under the floorboards :(
<diddledan> I never was any good at FPSes
<diddledan> or is that FPSing?
<aptanet> so far they stay gone for a long while, and peanut butter has proven irresistible
<diddledan> what about the jelly?!
<diddledan> can't have peanut butter without jelly! although in the UK that seems a bit of an odd combo
<daftykins> indeedy
<aptanet> jelly? jam!
<diddledan> imagine trying to convince an american that ice-cream and jelly is a thing
<aptanet> eek!
 * aptanet scrambles for cables
<diddledan> vince cables?
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> you low on power?
<aptanet> no, the ones that provide power for my phone / hotspot
<aptanet> and to think that my remote connection to the office used to be a 14.4 dial up modem!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> I had a 56Kflex modem as my first connection media, which usually synced at about 40Kbps
<aptanet> still got my usr modem somewhere
<diddledan> V.90 or V.92 (I forget whether I had the earlier spec or not)
<diddledan> yeah I've got a V.92 serial-attached one knocking about here someplace
<aptanet> at one point I had to dial in to my windows nt4 desktop to then dial out over isdn to a windows 98 desktop in Holand that was the mail server!
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> the joys of multiple hops
<aptanet> It was a bit of a step down from Netscape messaging server running on AIX on an RS6000
<diddledan> still get crazy stuff like that with top-secret access
<aptanet> I switched a customer's isp remotely through their dial-up connection once
<aptanet> scary waiting for the connection to come back on the new ip
<diddledan> at my old place of work they had a government issued laptop which required multi-factor auth to boot (encrypted HDD with a key-fob-style decryption module) which you then needed to login to, then remote desktop to the mildly secure network and then another remote desktop from there into the secure network
<diddledan> it was weird
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/010Ufgx.jpg new tires! gotta pop the downhill ones off :)
<diddledan> oooh
<diddledan> \o/
<aptanet> right, time to get back on the road
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaSaWfw07Sw
<diddledan> Tom Scott
<daftykins> i saw the bike share system at NASA in Houston, that was neat
<daftykins> just free bikes on stands, use any and take it to another building :>
<diddledan> doesn't London have that as a general city-wide thing?
<daftykins> a lot of cities have such a system that's paid, yes
<daftykins> they're shocking the ones i've seen in the US, you have to check them in every 30 mins
<diddledan> http://www.visitlondon.com/traveller-information/getting-around-london/london-cycle-hire-scheme#Y6OpKBA5eKBIQDr8.97
<daftykins> point was it is a staff thing though :>
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> sciency types are usually pretty good at sharing
<diddledan> betterment of everyone
<diddledan> none of this silly "out for yourself" nonsense
<daftykins> client just had a fake apple ID email claiming a bank card had been added, link pointed to a .pt domain though
<daftykins> how naughty
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> ooh, I got westworld episode 2
<diddledan> \o/ for automation
<Myrtti> Google has those bikes for their employees
<Myrtti> in Google colours
 * Laney has started getting spam to the dropbox-only email address
<Laney> grrrr
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMvS1Q1sos
<daftykins> it's all about the Cores
<daftykins> not The Corrs though
<diddledan> just watching brian lunduke & matt hartley's linux and whatnot where they're talking about https://matrix.org/
<diddledan> intriguing
<diddledan> specifically https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/riot.html
<m0nkey_> http://i.imgur.com/zIoD2pO.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> that'll take care of those feckin immigrant grey squirrels... :-P
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> google cloud services have a load of new datacentres coming online today: https://cloud.google.com/about/locations/
<diddledan> including london
<daftykins> just finished Deus Ex ;_;
<diddledan> time for call of duty?
<zmoylan-pi> see, you were holly in red dwarf we could type in a few commands and erase them from your memory so you could enjoy them again...
<daftykins> nah i don't play call of doody
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/lZz2il4nhH8?t=15
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i wish that were possible for books and music
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-11
<zmoylan-pi> never saw captain kirk as a quitter...
 * diddledan messing with juju
<diddledan> and maas
<diddledan> tis funkynuts
<knightwi1e> morning diddledan
<knightwi1e> how are you
<diddledan> mornin
<diddledan> sleepy :-p
<diddledan> otherwise I'm good
<knightwi1e> same here"
<knightwi1e> long day today
<diddledan> also, in addition to juju and maas, ipmi on servers is awesome
<sebsebseb> morning anyone about?
<dwatkins> allo allo
<SuperMatt> Some mothers do 'ave em
<foobarry> hi de hi
<SuperMatt> yes, minister
<foobarry> goodnight sweetheart
<SuperMatt> the good life
<foobarry> did anyone see that one off goodnight sweetheart they recently made?
<foobarry> it was actually watchable. so is the current red dwarf series
<SuperMatt> dammit man, you were supposed to say something else, and then I was going to say mornington crescent and win
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<sebsebseb> davmor2: hi
<sebsebseb> davmor2: so Facebook adveritisng for my event sot of working, but....
<sebsebseb> sort above
<Gargoyle> mornin'
<knightwise> Been watching Westworld
<knightwise> pretty pleased with the first two episodes
<TwistedLucidity> Is it better than the movie?
<knightwise> Its a little "deeper"
<knightwise> although I LOVED the movie :)
<knightwise> Scared the crap out of me as a kid
 * knightwise still thinks about the scenes in the long tunnels
<davmor2> sebsebseb: was there meant to be something after the but...
<foobarry> the movie was a bit pervy in the same way star trek is just a bunch of horny teenagers
<foobarry> taps into fantasies about a saloon bar whorehouse
<sebsebseb> davmor2: well yeah :d
<sebsebseb> davmor2: so it's Linux and Creative Commons event
<sebsebseb> davmor2: but...
<sebsebseb> but for some reson the Facebook adveritsing is  mostly targetting woemn, altough in the right kind of age range at least,  like 25 to 33, but guess what that means?
<TwistedLucidity> You will have lots of female attendees?
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: heh that would be nice actually I guess
<sebsebseb> ,but  yeah your close
<sebsebseb> loads well only like four so far it seems, but may bring in more
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity:  the  more correct answer is going to get artists and such hmm
<davmor2> sebsebseb: if it has a facebook page just let popey know about it and then most of the UK will know about it ;)
<TwistedLucidity> Which fits nicely with CC stuff
<sebsebseb> so looks  lilke really going to have to try   harder to make this Creative Commons aspect good
<sebsebseb> that takes time and work~!
<sebsebseb> uhmm  was doing to look for more "suitable" music now, but got  distracted by the mostly unsuitable Severed Fifth h eh
<TwistedLucidity> Although there is a slight irony in promoting [GNU/]Linux and Creative Commons over Facebook.
<sebsebseb> davmor2: a Creative Commons uk page you mean or ?
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity:  what's the irony? and just one of the attemped ways to try and get some more people in
<sebsebseb> but got to go through a few hundred or so each time, not interested people,  before getting the few that are, it seems,  on Facebook that is
<TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: Promoting freedom over a closed platform is what I meant. I know why you're doing it, it just amuses me slightly is all.
<davmor2> sebsebseb: no I mean if there is a page or facebook page that advertises the event let popey know it
<sebsebseb> at least the cost is still low, but I wonder by next week, if my budget of 30 pounds ( which I might up a bit with reason ), will be all spent
<sebsebseb> for the Facebook  marketitng
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: well it's aimed at general public,  they use Facebook!
<TwistedLucidity> That's because they don't know any better! :-P
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: not using Twitter for this, uh to that, one is enough like this for  this one.
 * sebsebseb doesn't like Facebook or Twitter
<TwistedLucidity> I wonder how GNUSocial is going these days? I really meant to set that up and well....life
<sebsebseb> http://identi.ca was good,  but then the community split in half.  those who wanted to carry on on pump,io and those who wanted to continue with the old status.net on another site
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: yeah I used to use identica  quite a bit for a while at one stage
<sebsebseb> but well that's differnet, and that was nice, and yeah
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: actsaully I got ot meet the guy who started identi.ca at FOSDEM one year as well :)
<sebsebseb> which year I don't remember exactly, I been five years now. uhmm I guess it was 2013 or something
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: indeed promoting freedom, bingo exacly what it is, but software, and creative commons multimead stuff to
<sebsebseb> loads of artists music peopel etc, won't een know about CC yet
<TwistedLucidity> Matt Lee come to our LUG to give a talk. We couldn't get enough folks together (very small LUG) so we had beers instead \o/
<TwistedLucidity> (Matt Lee of GNU Social fame)
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: which LUG is that, also I have mett Matt Lee :)
<sebsebseb> in 2014
<sebsebseb> since I decided to go on a special visit, to attend one of his talks etc
<sebsebseb> that was happening a train ride away, longish one
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: would be nice if these more open sites,  federated sites and what not
<sebsebseb> were all more popular
<sebsebseb> but nope
<sebsebseb> not with the society we have etc
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: companies really dominate things
<sebsebseb> money this money that, oh and brexit will be something to h eh
<TwistedLucidity> It's hard for a non-techy to do though. And you have to worry about redundancy, back-ups etc.
<TwistedLucidity> Security....
<TwistedLucidity> Tricky stuff
<sebsebseb> apparnatly petrol will go  up five pencce a litter soon since that to etc  etc
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: a non techy to do what?
<sebsebseb> hard for
<TwistedLucidity> Install, say, GNUSocial, ensure it is secure and so on
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: yeah I guess, but there are quite a few sites out there, using that
<sebsebseb> I think
<sebsebseb> or well for status.net  there still are
<TwistedLucidity> I'm still not convinced my ownCloud install is safe to use. :-S
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> TwistedLucidity: have you seen sandstorm.io yet?
<TwistedLucidity> JonTheNiceGuy[m]: Uh, nope. That's a new one.
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: so what are the details for that, so someone can get in easier :D
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> It's a very secure, self hosting platform
<sebsebseb> JonTheNiceGuy[m]: aww going to have to look at sosme other music sources to
<TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: Hire someone who know's what they are doing, just as you would a plumber. :-D
<sebsebseb> JonTheNiceGuy[m]: shame about the lack of a serach feature and by genre as well
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: so is that what I Want, more female attendes in 20's to early 30's :D
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: trying to promote tech to a not that interested woman, can be differnet, to a not that interested man
<TwistedLucidity> JonTheNiceGuy[m]: Sandstorm looks neat, maybe even more overkill for my needs than ownCloud is TBH. Still...might give it a punt at some point for giggles. I know folks who might have a use for it
<TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: Is it? I've little (well, no) marketing experience.
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: can be
<TwistedLucidity> I guess there can be a cultural slant to things.
<sebsebseb> hmm maybe ths song can be used , not that keen on  it, but it's not that bad I guess
<TwistedLucidity> Right...supoort calls...who hasn't read the blasted instructions today? :-|
<Gargoyle> TwistedLucidity, Maybe you should have a look at https://github.com/facebook. The product might be closed, but Facebook as a company has done a lot more than others for open-source development of large scale web apps.
<TwistedLucidity> Gargoyle: I am aware. I still won't use Facebook.
<Gargoyle> Fair enough, I don't use it either (other than for development).
<Gargoyle> There's no irony to using it to promote a Linux event though.
<foobarry> is there a way to show nicklist in irssi only for certain chans?
<foobarry> its super useful for small chans , sucks for biggues
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Ada Lovelace Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<foobarry> not sure i like these skullcandy headphones
<foobarry> the EQ seems odd.
<foobarry> not flat
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSfBmlXlqio cheeky one it's from ada lovelace the musical :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: and yes I had to look that one up :) I didn't want to spilt it between songs like last time :)
<danielmx> hi on ubuntu 16.04.1 adding a network printer. i click find printer with the associated ip address. it finds the printer but keeps repeating the ip address until the printing software ceases
<danielmx> can anyone point me in the right direction
<davmor2> danielmx: what manufacturer is the printer by?
<danielmx> HP
<danielmx> adding printer work on another linux machine
<davmor2> danielmx: hmm normally that works fine
<davmor2> danielmx: you can try add the hp-lip app and access it via that
<danielmx> seems to be fixed i was logged in as guest user
<danielmx> logged out and logged in as admin and was able to add printer and print test page
<danielmx> does this mean any user that logs in as guest can now use printer
<danielmx> or shall i test it to be sure
<davmor2> ah yeah you would need to be an admin to enable it
<danielmx> thanks for your help, very much appreciated
<Gargoyle> Is there something specific you have to do, or does gnome just not like to remember the position of app windows between runs?
<daftykins> Gargoyle: the old ctrl+click rule do nothing i take it? not that i know whether that was ever cross-platform or not
<Gargoyle> daftykins, Nope.
<Gargoyle> Maybe it's just a Mac thing I had gotten used to.
<daftykins> guess you didn't have multiple screens there then, i've always heard and seen first hand how Macs can't handle multiple displays :)
<Gargoyle> Sure do. The last few iterations of OSX have been MUCH improved in that regard.
<Gargoyle> Separate exposÃ© per screen, etc.
<daftykins> can't stand the OS myself - and the business practices of the company simply immoral
<daftykins> yay i gave android pay my first try today, having repaired my phone \o/ waitrose had some self service machines in which supported it :)
<Gargoyle> 4 years ago, I would have told anyone that it was the best desktop. Unix like sub-system with a well polished UI. But over the last few versions, they have crippled it from a hobbyist/techie perspective in favour of making it more of a consumer product.
<Gargoyle> Which was the final push to make me switch to linux desktop! :-)
<daftykins> hmm, i find it gives very little UI feedback in most operations as to anything going on - so for example adding accounts you have to sit and hope awaiting a result
<daftykins> but the sale of outdated components in fixed configurations that are often not upgradable (or take a while to be reverse engineered) due to the Apple Way(TM) is just unforgivable for me :)
<Gargoyle> daftykins, Yeah. But that's part of the consumer focus which Apple has always had to some degree. "It just works". None of this nonsense about only having the choice of 1 resolution option! ;-)
<daftykins> Gargoyle: sounds like you're talking display res? did i misunderstand?
<Gargoyle> Yeah I am. I have to run the nvidia tweak tool thing every login to change my screen res down a bit (MBP Retina).
<Gargoyle> I'm not that bothered though. After Christmas I'm going to build a dedicated desktop system. The laptop will become a tool for the 2 days a month I am in the office until it dies.
<Gargoyle> I'm sure with a bit more playing, I could get xrandr to play ball or something. Haven't really had the time to dig into it too much.
<daftykins> ah i didn't mean to allude to that, but definitely the scaling settings are a joke versus manual control, and is an example of Apple dumbing things down too much
<Gargoyle> yup
<Gargoyle> Speaking of running out of time - must go and get a haircut before I forget what my ears look like!
<Gargoyle> laters...
<daftykins> enjoy o/
<FebDebasAcer> Happy Coming Out Day ! https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=%23NationalComingOutDay&qpvt=%23NationalComingOutDay&FORM=EWRE
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-12
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<diplo> How're things brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not great if i am honest, and you?
<diplo> Similar but plodding on :)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Emergency Nurses Day! ð
<foobarry> tom_b:
 * diddledan cuddles everyone
<TwistedLucidity> Unwarranted physical contact is assault.
 * TwistedLucidity summons the cuddle police
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L68nlTMVExw
<davmor2> diddledan: there's a nice one for you :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> well this ubuntu-devel mailing list thread finally got a smile out of me by quoting HHGTTG
<diddledan> ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-October/017046.html
<diddledan> I guess the hip and cool kids refer to the guide as H2G2 these days?
<zmoylan-pi> the cool kids have no idea what a reference book is anymore
<diddledan> really? I thought geekery would never be out of vogue
<diddledan> or was it never *in* vogue in the first place?
<zmoylan-pi> if it's not online it doesn't exist
<diddledan> I really must read rule34
<zmoylan-pi> go to any physical book shop and look at their reference section...
<diddledan> haha, *physical* book shop!
<diddledan> the last one of those went years ago :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: to be honest you'd just say 42 and be done people would be on the floor at that point ;)
<zmoylan-pi> still a fair few around dublin but the second hand book shops i preferred are almost gone
<diddledan> oh, well dublin is a bit backasswards
<diddledan> rain all year indeed!
<diddledan> who would put-up with that without filing a protest to the church?!
<zmoylan-pi> dublin is only city to have 3 folk who won noble prizes for literature born there...
<diddledan> "we, the undersigned, politely request that the church consider the reinstatement of sunlight during the summer months"
<davmor2> diddledan: that's not rain that the tears of the people who long for the Sun
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> you don't miss what you never had :-)
<davmor2> diddledan, zmoylan-pi: I still love Rhod Gilberts introduction of Wales of I was 11 before I realised you could take a Kagool off the bible said it rained for 40 days and 40 nights that's still the best summer I ever remember
<diddledan> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i like that newgrange a solar temple was built in ireland as was the largest telescope in the world for quite a while at birr castle... http://birrcastle.com/telescope-astronomy/ talk about optimists... :-)
<diddledan> lol. I like that
<zmoylan-pi> nice the telescope has an entry in h2g2... https://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A87835477
<zmoylan-pi> ::futurama voice:: welcome to the future... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/10/12/man-spends-11-hours-trying-to-make-cup-of-tea-with-wi-fi-kettle/
<foobarry> thats nothing compared to fixing xorg.conf back in the day
<foobarry> or the time i just spent taping my headphone jack to my pc to make it work
<zmoylan-pi> back in the days you could make a vga monitor explode...
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/FJe4d
<foobarry> needed that to hear vocals
<zmoylan-pi> shape of the case stopped the jack been plugged in properly?
<diddledan> headphone cables always break internally for me
<diddledan> means I can wiggle it and the sound will come and go as I do so
<zmoylan-pi> i can count the number of headphones that have broken on me on one hand... and usually not my fault... i wonder what the people who break so many pairs do to break them
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: most people use them too loud
<diddledan> I don't like really loud
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer high quality sound over loud
<diddledan> I prefer sound at a nice normal human level
<zmoylan-pi> so i use isolating/noise cancelling headphones
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: as for cables people pull on them if it is phone headphones by putting the phone in a pocket that stretches the cable on pcs/laptops they roll between machines and tug on the cable and the coil the cables too
<zmoylan-pi> has to be said, some phones have terrible head phone sockets in bad places so that if you put phone in a pocket it will put pressure on the socket ::glares at nokia e71::
<zmoylan-pi> then again... at least they had a headphone jack :-)
<foobarry> my wife broke the earphone cable through wear and tear
<foobarry> so it neeed pressure at a certain point on the jack connector
<foobarry> to get extra instruments and vocals
<foobarry> really weird how certain freuqencies disappear
<foobarry> when the wire is dodgy
<zmoylan-pi> get in ear headphones... she won't want to share :-)
<foobarry> there are
<foobarry> they are her ones i replaced them like a loving husband
<foobarry> but was sure they could be used if taped down
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like she'd be an ideal user for bt
<diddledan> how about a pair of those apple wireless ones? :-p
 * diddledan drops the mic and wanders-off to get cake
<diddledan> mr kipling, you do make exceedingly good cakes
<daftykins> biggest BSOD i think i have seen, in a shopping mall in Houston - TX: http://i.imgur.com/lGr3ys3.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> everything is bigger in texas
<daftykins> i received the tool to open this old duck today \o/ https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w1ys15didhssdi2/AACQyG1buPxdGbs_AQvUmhgZa?dl=0
<daftykins> i've just ordered a capacitor set for Â£4.50 which should hopefully fix that up
<zmoylan-pi> and leave it were some kids are baffled as to why they can't access snapchat? :-)
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> http://news.softpedia.com/news/hacker-steals-58-million-user-records-from-data-storage-provider-509190.shtml
<diddledan> just got an alert that I'm included in the leaked data. I have no idea who this company is
<Seeker> diddledan: I'd guess something to do with car insurance
<Seeker> because of the "vehicle data"
<diddledan> nope, don't got a car
<davmor2> diddledan: house insurance
<diddledan> davmor2: don't got a house :-p
<diddledan> </blatant-lies>
<davmor2> if it store insurance it could be any type so household, buildings, gadgets, car bike and so on
<davmor2> diddledan: not to mention health and life :)
<diddledan> don't got a life!
<diddledan> where do we find these lives to live?
<davmor2> diddledan: hey there are people who have freetime I thought it was all a big myth
<ali1234> what is the correct way to monitor rtnetlink?
<Laney> INJUSTICE IN GBBO
<diddledan> wonder what these globals are about.. a hidden hub being rebooted sounds nefarious :-p
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-13
<mapps> hi
<knightwise> Great
<knightwise> Microsoft update seems to have broken my Surface Pro"s ability to use a second screen
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> You're one of 58,843,488 people pwned in the Modern Business Solutions data breach
<foobarry> did anyone else get this? never heard of them
<diplo> Our work domain did yeah
<diplo> Haven't looked at who it was yet
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: It's inetersting where your data ends up. I don't have a Yahoo account, they still sent me an email. :-S
<foobarry> flickr?
<foobarry> banking on popey getting an email too
<foobarry> maybe they were a giant linkedin email addres harvesting op
<davmor2> foobarry: I think diddledan was on about that yesterday
<davmor2> foobarry: http://news.softpedia.com/news/hacker-steals-58-million-user-records-from-data-storage-provider-509190.shtml
<foobarry> doesn't explain why though
<foobarry> why my name is there
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Perhaps they were storing data on behalf of another company (think of something like a managed SQL Server for businesses)
<davmor2> foobarry: by the look of it they store insurance docs among other things
<zmoylan-pi> perhaps someone is using your info for fraudulant accounts?
<foobarry> https://haveibeenpwned.com/PwnedWebsites is rather epic
<popey> i dont think i have had a mail
<daftykins> do i spy final 16.10 images already?
<daftykins> not that i touch non-LTS, but i'll help seed :)
<directhex> i guess mono 4.6 was too late. boo-urns :/
<daftykins> hmm server 2016 eval to play with, too
<davmor2> foobarry: I think it is just quicker to print YES on the haveibeenpwned site ;)
<knightwise> Frack
<knightwise> MS = Pita
<daftykins> oh really :)
<Seeker> nom nom nom
<davmor2> knightwise: are you trying to say you want a fracking oil and microsoft pita I'm sure it can be arranged but seriously kebab meat is probably slightly less hazardous to your health
<foobarry> my wife told me to put less marmite on daughters bread today
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i heard about Tesco having some fun with Unilever, on the radio
<foobarry> unbeliever?
<popey> marmite \o/
<popey> stock up!
<Seeker> It's the great marmite shortage of 2016!
<Seeker> Someone made the point that Unilever didn't try to cut prices by 10% when the pound was doing well :P
<daftykins> that's not a very good point to make given the radio claimed Unilever had said they were changing due to the weak pound
<foobarry> what are sainsburys doing ? rasising prices?
<Seeker> daftykins: I think the point was that Unilever was happy to take the extra profit when the pound was doing well
<knightwise> Nah , its just that a driver update broke the ability to use my external screen
<knightwise> very annoying
<daftykins> Seeker: i can't follow the logic there
<diddledan> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> It's Out!!! See - http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> non-LTS = no news ;)
<diddledan> I didn't receive the email yet
<Seeker> daftykins: If the argument is "The pound is weak so we are making less profit, so we need to lower the price to make sure we make the same amount of profit as before"
<Seeker> *to raise the price
<daftykins> ah i'd heard it was manufacture costs
<daftykins> might be remembering wrong
<Seeker> They should have applied "The pound is strong so we are making more profit, so we need to lower the price to make the same amount of profit as before, we can pass the benefit to our customers"
<Seeker> yes, manufacture costs have an impact on profit
<daftykins> nevermind, i think you miss what i'm saying there
<Seeker> daftykins: it's manufactured by them in other countries
<daftykins> i've lost interest now
<Seeker> so they're now getting less <other currency> per product
<knightwise> Is this the distro with Unity8  ?
<diddledan> knightwise: it's installed, but not default
<popey> knightwise: see http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/10/13/unity-8-preview-session-in-ubuntu-16-10-yakkety-yak/
<imexil> Hi, just tried to run upgrade to 16.10 and I'm getting "Your python install is corrupted. Please fix the '/usr/bin/python' symlink." from the update-manager. I've already tried "apt install --reinstall python" (and python3) but nothing helped. Any other suggestions?
<daftykins> ls -al /usr/bin/python
<imexil> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 okt.  13 18:47 /usr/bin/python -> /usr/bin/python3
<daftykins> perhaps it wants you to have that as python 2 *shrug*
<daftykins> update-alternatives handles that i think
<imexil> well that was when I reinstalled python. Same result :(
<daftykins> right but that DOES NOT change the symlink.
<imexil> yes it does ;-)
<daftykins> how come it's pointing at 3 then?
<imexil> I first tried reinstall python  --> fail. Then reinstall python3
<daftykins> so what you're actually trying to say with the wrong words, is that you don't have python 2?
<imexil> I have both. And in the right words: 1. update-manager complains 2. reinstall python 3. ln points to python2 3. update-manager still fails 4. reinstall python3 5. ln points to python3 6. update-manager still fails.
<imexil> I guess I will have to purge both next
<daftykins> just change the symlink and see what it does
<imexil> that was my first try before reinstall :-(
<daftykins> so you have had it point to python 2...
<daftykins> i think at this point you should go to the correct support channel #ubuntu :)
<imexil> I've tried both variants already
<daftykins> yeah but you keep talking about package manipulation instead of changing it by hand, so i'm dubious
<imexil> changing the symlinks to python2 and python3, fail each time. Followed by reinstall of python2 and python3  which still fals.
<daftykins> ok, #ubuntu it is
<imexil> The thing is that I'm actually using python on a daily basis so can't believe the symlinks were the problems to start with
<imexil> OK. Thanks.
<daftykins> well it doesn't hurt to try the simple things
<ali1234> /usr/bin/python should never be a symlink to python3
<ali1234> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/3 and http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
<imexil> Even if it is it does not help :-(
 * daftykins thinks it was done wrong but nevermind
<imexil> what do you mean daftykins
<daftykins> i've already pointed to the main support channel, no point discussing further
<imexil> just wondering what you mean with "it"
<daftykins> like i said, i'm hands off now
<ali1234> actually since 16.10 is not released yet you probably want #ubuntu+1
<ali1234> wait, hang on, it was released today?
<daftykins> keep up :)
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm _finally_ going to get the battery replaced in my mac tomorrow
<diddledan> :-D
<daftykins> NO WAI
<daftykins> official one, or?
<diddledan> yeah, I've got an appointment with the apple store
<daftykins> ouch, isn't that gonna be like Â£80+ ?
<diddledan> Â£169 :-o
<daftykins> WAT
<daftykins> that's obscene
<diddledan> INORITE
<zmoylan-pi> well as a mac user you are expected to be able to afford it
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> or just sufficiently overtaken by the cult :)
<daftykins> diddledan: where did it all go wrong!?
<diddledan> it was shauno!
<diddledan> he corrupted my fragile little mind
<zmoylan-pi> for twice the price you can probably send the macbook off and have the battery replaced in the cult hq...
<daftykins> you won't get the same one back then though, just a refurb most likely
<daftykins> same thing they do with phones which is part of a class action lawsuit ;)
<zmoylan-pi> seems a few iphone users are miffed when they send an iphone 6 in for repairs that they are getting scuffed/sup par ones in return...
<zmoylan-pi> my iphone 3g is still in mint condition... :-D
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> insecure online though ;)
<daftykins> and due to the 'touch disease' issue, they get back a device that in some cases only lasts a few days so i hear...
<zmoylan-pi> hasn't been online since.... 2010ish
<daftykins> which there is also a class action lawsuit progressing nicely for
<zmoylan-pi> but totally non explody!
<daftykins> they might wish it exploded :>
<zmoylan-pi> if they explode its the judgement of jobs.... :-P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hah, simply 'your time has come'
<diddledan> wat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU2GF4qGyck
<ali1234> lol
<daftykins> when will i learn not to click diddledan links :(
<daftykins> wait... diddlinks
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> wow if you log into a server core 2012R2 install you just get a command prompt window come up, that's ghetto
<diddledan> this is how not to respond to accusations of fraud: http://www.imore.com/dash-developer-speaks-heres-his-full-story
<diddledan> daftykins: yup, I find it odd that it still has a GUI interface to drive that command prompt though because it suggests the only thing they stripped-out was explorer.exe
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you'd think they could at least develop a console-like thing
<diddledan> I figured when they claimed something like it will be command-line only that it would be command-line only
<diddledan> I just don't get why they need any WIMP stuff at all
<daftykins> hang on, is he claiming his mum did it all? :D
<diddledan> kinda
<zmoylan-pi> his dog did it would only work on youtube comments and not app store reviews...
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> he contradicts that at the bottom where he says "I did not want to release any information on the developer that was behind the accused activity, in order to protect her identity." <-- if it's his mom then why does he says "the developer"?!
<zmoylan-pi> she made him? :-P
<diddledan> hah! https://twitter.com/joeressington/status/786677146488111104
<daftykins> diddledan: pff
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> gah, the new mechanical keyboard i got has been causing me proper finger joint pain
<daftykins> took a fair time to notice it, but any extended typing has one or two on one hand start to give grief
<daftykins> difference is i got Cherry MX Reds this time, Blue last time
<zmoylan-pi> is red stiffer/harder?
<daftykins> buckles easier i think
<daftykins> so my fingers might be suffering from them bottoming out
<zmoylan-pi> at least they make other options...
<daftykins> not on this model sadly
<daftykins> all the keyboards have got broken layouts and silly RGB lighting nowadays X|
<zmoylan-pi> so bid for a model m on fleabay?
<daftykins> those don't have super!
<zmoylan-pi> then you've reached the age of needing :cue ominous music:: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard
<daftykins> holy moly
<daftykins> that seems worthy of Doug Engelbert
<daftykins> *Engelbart
<zmoylan-pi> 8000 possible combos...
<daftykins> i especially love the roman numerals
<zmoylan-pi> the advanced version comes with egyptian hieroglyphics :-P
<zmoylan-pi> i'm only surprised no one seems to making a modern variant of it
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cHB3Rbz1OI
<daftykins> such a bad name
<m0nkey_> Hmm, I gotta send my server box PSU for RMA. I'm going to be without my FreeNAS box for a few weeks :(
<daftykins> no express RMA service from the co?
<daftykins> could just buy another then sell the replacement
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-14
<m0nkey_> daftykins, not when a new PSU costs me $150
<knightwise>  morning
<Gargoyle> Mornin all
<knightwise> morning Gargoyle
<Gargoyle> If you were building a new system, is there any benefit from a linux perspective of AMD or nVidia gfx card choice?
<knightwise> hmmz
<knightwise> pi not behaving
<knightwise> hardcoded the dns servers but it doesnt seem to work
<davmor2> Morning all
<Gargoyle> grrrrr
<Gargoyle> My font scaling keeps switching itself to 1.25
<Gargoyle> I've got fisher-price title bars! :/
<knightwise> Gargoyle: Go byte them :)
<Wobbo> Hey all.
<Wobbo>  What to doe if my update is stuk...? Gnome-system-monitor is the only one active. Everting is still working.
<Wobbo> It stuk at 4, installing.
<davmor2> Wobbo: is it stuck or is it installing stuff
<Wobbo> Only package manager is  stuck
<Wobbo> The rest is still working.
<Wobbo> For 20min or more.
<Wobbo> I have a i5-3337U, so 20 min is to long.
<Wobbo> reboot? If I do, boot wondt work anymore.
<davmor2> Wobbo: you can try cancelling the upgrade and then run sudo dpkg --configure -a  or failing that reboot if it doesn't boot use rescue mode on grub and run dpkg --configure -a from there instead
<Wobbo> How to cancel it? Reboot, or stop in using gnome-system-monitor?
<davmor2> Wobbo: click on the x, click on the cancel button, find the process number and kill it the list goes on
<Wobbo> Sorry for that copy/paste
<Wobbo> Ofter a long list of installing and new versions, it ends with No DKMSpacheges installed: not changing secure Boot validation state.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Wobbo> Morning
<Wobbo> reboot now?
<davmor2> Wobbo: sounds like linux is installed at least so you should be able to recover the system if it breaks
<Wobbo> I have started update-manager. And it sais that not als is updated: Partial upgrade or continue
<davmor2> so upgrade
<Wobbo> Which of those two is that?
<Wobbo> partly or continue
<davmor2> Wobbo: partial upgrade
<Wobbo> Sinds 6.04 I have changed all my PC's, even my work had to change, because of me. As long as WoW can run, it fine lol. But still after all those years... I can get stressed... a lot.
<Wobbo> Thanks for your time.
<Wobbo> Now it is telling me: Cannot upgrade An upgrade from "yakety" to "xenial" is not supported with this tool.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy World Egg Day! ð  ð£
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyar2C_wEq8 :D
<knightwise> yuck i'm coming down with the flu
 * brobostigon is in the same boat as knightwise 
<Seeker> please set sail immediately so you don't infect the rest of us
<davmor2> knightwise, brobostigon: it's all the hugging it's not good for you, go look at cat videos instead and be sad and lonely like the rest of us you'll feel much better for it ;)
<brobostigon> last time someone hugged me was 3.5/4 months ago, so i dont think hugging counts.
 * Seeker hopes his flu jab works this year
 * brobostigon cant have the flu jab, it contains something that derived from milk, which he is allergic to.
<brobostigon> that is*
<Wobbo> Thanks all, everyting is working!
<davmor2> Wobbo awesome
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> davmor2: perhaps cat videos might be a good idea
<knightwise> I think I shake too many hands
<foobarry> Youâve been chosen for a free
<foobarry> upgrade to smart meters
<foobarry> At British Gas we're leading the way in upgrading our customers to smart meters.
<foobarry> Smart meters replace your current meters and with the addition of a smart energy monitor, you'll be able to see what you're spending in pounds and pence on things like appliances, heating and lighting.
<foobarry> anyone else got this?
<zmoylan-pi> whereas you could... you know put a spreadsheet together and punch in the number on the meter and get that number now without any installation hassle...
<Gargoyle> Anyone else using gnome on 16.10? Seems using shift+ctrl+page-up/down to change terminal tabs isn't working for me.
<Gargoyle> the tab highlight changes to suggest its on the next tab, but the window contents don't update.
<DanielLlewellyn[> What nickname am I showing as? (it's diddledan using riot.im)
<Myrtti> full name
<DanielLlewellyn[> Thanks
<DanielLlewellyn[> daftykins, my Mac is now in the safe (?) hands of apple for new flattery
<DanielLlewellyn[> No tab complete on nicknames in riot :-(
<DanielLlewellyn[> In other news, some eejit bought a new iPad Pro with a physical keyboard to tide him over until his Mac is repaired
<Myrtti> uhoh
<DanielLlewellyn[> The keyboard is nice to type on tho
<DanielLlewellyn[> INORITE!
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> diddledan: just click on the name in riot :)
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> That, to be fair, works better on the mobile client :)
<m0nkey_> Is it full name day?
<wonkothesane> fair enough
<zmoylan-pi> 2016 claims hilda ogden...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<marshmn> what are people's opinions of Let's Encrypt? totally fine for general purpose SSL?
<marshmn> it looks good from what I've read on their website, but not sure if there are any downsides to be aware of?
<marshmn> it's obviously nice that it's free - but I also really appreciate that it auto-renews the certificates rather than having to do them manually...
<daftykins> DanielLlewellyn[: :D nice
<daftykins> hey hey more soldering successes! (i'm new to doing it)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyi0cleuc2k3a0t/VID_20161015_135756.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> oh ignore that one, i've made a youtube mockup now - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufYogr5sv7Q
<daftykins> Sega Game Gear repaired \o/
<zmoylan-pi> i was loaned a sega game gear years ago while house sitting for a relative in a house with no tv.  was a very entertaining system
<ScoutsAtJOTA> where are you from
<zmoylan-pi> earth... maybe...
<ali1234> why does the topic say VOTE!
<ali1234> what are we voting on?
<zmoylan-pi> that vim is the best editor :-P
 * penguin42 agrees
<ScoutsAtJOTA> hi
<ScoutsAtJOTA> any usa?
<daftykins> ScoutsAtJOTA: it's a -UK channel, if you want US folks - join #ubuntu the main support channel, or perhaps there is a local channel
<daftykins> !channels
<lubotu3> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist and !alis - See also !Guidelines
<ScoutsAtJOTA> ok cool
<daftykins> depends what kind of chat you're looking for :>
<bcuraboy> hi fellas
<daftykins> lo
<bcuraboy> anybody also compilling for mobile devices?
<daftykins> there might be a more appropriate channel depending on your query
<bcuraboy> most likely
<bcuraboy> altough my query is about the ninja_wrapper
<daftykins> are you talking Ubuntu Touch?
<bcuraboy> no,android
<daftykins> ah, so what specifically then?
<bcuraboy> I should go to other channel,right?
<daftykins> well it depends how soon you want a response i suppose ;D
<daftykins> !alis
<lubotu3> alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu or /msg alis list http
<bcuraboy> well, ninja wrapper gives me an error of unknow targe
<daftykins> and where does that (i assume program) come from? ubuntu repos?
<bcuraboy> yes
<daftykins> probably better to hit a larger pool for the support query then, main #ubuntu channel would be a good start there - or just using alis above to find an appropriate android dev channel
<daftykins> !find ninja
<lubotu3> Found: backupninja, libjs-rtcninja, ninja, ninja-build, ninja-build-doc, ninja-ide, node-rtcninja, W:, W:, W: (and 24 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ninja&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<daftykins> !info ninja-build
<lubotu3> ninja-build (source: ninja-build): small build system closest in spirit to Make. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.5.1-0.1ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 90 kB, installed size 284 kB
<bcuraboy> ok, i will move to android channel then
<zmoylan-pi> '
<daftykins> ah mr.zmoylan
<daftykins> how goes?
<zmoylan-pi> going ok.  nice walk from bray to home.
<zmoylan-pi> in a few days the rain will turn the fallen leaves into a slippery mush which will make walking with a walking stick more of an adventure.
<daftykins> ah har!
<daftykins> yeah best get it in now :>
<zmoylan-pi> my walking speed will drop by a few %.  it'll take longer to get anywhere...
<zmoylan-pi> i also picked up a nice 10000mah power bank for â¬20.  should keep my dumbphone going for months in zombie apocalypse :-)
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> i'm shocked it even uses a useful interconnect
<zmoylan-pi> it doubles as a battery for a mini... :-P
<daftykins> D:
<second> hi
<daftykins> lo
<second> hi
<daftykins> what's up?
<second> nuthing
<daftykins> i mean in life, but ok!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-16
<second> any americans or russia
<Gargoyle> mornin'
<second> YO
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Gargoyle> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning Gargoyle
<CoderEurope> Daftykins, well done in getting your game gear sorted out !
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 yaaawwwwnnns at bigcalm
<bigcalm> WiFi isn't consistent at this Turkish holiday resort
<penguin42> perhaps it needs basting?
<bigcalm> It was 28Â°C for most of the 10 days here. Flying back to Blighty is going to be a shock to the system
 * bigcalm checks the weather report
<bigcalm> 14Â°C and wet :(
<penguin42> yeh it's getting colder, hasn't got wet here, but it's thinking about it
<diddledan> bigcalm: as long as there isn't any cooing until after you get back! (couping?)
<diddledan> sorry, I shouldn't sow the seed of doubt
<bigcalm> Back, don't. My parents were somewhat concerned about us coming here
<bigcalm> s/Back/Ack
<diddledan> :-) it'll be fine :-)
<bigcalm> I know...
<diddledan> if not, I'll sit on someone as punishment
<diddledan> <-- big fella
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> At this all inclusive resort, I've been going that way muskeg
<bigcalm> Myself
<diddledan> good fooding there?
<zmoylan-pi> as someone in ireland, i'll just warn you the rain is on the way, repeat, the rain is on the way...
<diddledan> dear lord!
 * diddledan finds the nearest fallout shelter
<zmoylan-pi> it was only code yellow rain so probably heavy showers by time it gets there...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Well, if you take all the rain that'll be good; just dont leave any for us
<zmoylan-pi> and underground fallout shelters would be last place i'd head for :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a rnli lifeboat would be optimal
<penguin42> a lighthouse?
<zmoylan-pi> most lighthouses are now automatic and have no living quarters anymore
<diddledan> they're the first to rise-up when the machine rebellion begins
<penguin42> nowhere even for an engineer to camp out ?
<zmoylan-pi> the living quarters if not maintained would be fairly bad after even a mere decade of non maintenance
 * diddledan bursts into a rendition of "Transformers, Robots in these guys"
<diddledan> what do you mean I did it wrong?!
<daftykins> diddledan: ;) hows the fruity patient?
<diddledan> gone off to their repair centre now
<diddledan> be back in about a week mayhaps
<daftykins> ah they can't even do stuff in house? shocking
<zmoylan-pi> thy don't have the necessary holy tools?
<daftykins> must be a reseller only :D
<diddledan> tis an official apple store :-p
<daftykins> *gasp*
<daftykins> i see our local reseller shop (one of them) has now moved into fancy larger premises - shows they're making a few quid
<daftykins> rent on the high-street here is probably Â£60,000+ per year
<zmoylan-pi> ...or the closure of most of the other shops as retail moves online has left the retail market a lot of empty locations they're desperate to fill
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen a few shops around my local town move to new premises after decades in old locations
<penguin42> yeh quite a lot of shuffling going on in Manchester
<daftykins> ours just charge so much rent that companies start, fail and fold up within weeks
<zmoylan-pi> same problem here... worked with a guy who sold restaurant equipment.  he reckoned most restaurants started in the failed remains of previous restaurant or at least their equipment
<penguin42> Manchester seems to have had problems with losing some businesses due to ever-continuing building due to trying to expand the tram network, just leaving shops half-cut off for ages
<zmoylan-pi> dublin is currently ripping up centre of city to reinstall tram tracks ripped out in 1960s
<zmoylan-pi> when i learned to cycle in late 70s there were still roads around my house that had the tracks laid down.
<penguin42> yeh, Manc has had them for ages but they keep adding more
<daftykins> :) seems loads of places are bringing them back
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect leccy buses will eliminate their advantage soon enough so they'll end up ripping them out all over again
<daftykins> had one such road with the rails still in, in Portsmouth
<penguin42> we've had them for ~20 years
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: http://new.abb.com/smartcities/transport/electric-buses/flash-charging  is a scary solution to that
<zmoylan-pi> instead of needing tracks + overhead lines a leccy bus with kinetic or capictor storage could eliminate need for tracks or as much overhead
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: We've got a 'guided busway' (there's also one in Cambridge)
<zmoylan-pi> a bus could top up at every bus stop and route around accidents unlike trams which have to wait for tracks to be cleared
<penguin42> yeh
<daftykins> i'm off to bed, have a good week all \o
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well o/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-09
<diplo> Morning all
<Rixon> does cron do brace expansion or will I have to trigger /bin/bash -c "... {file1,file2}" ?
<SuperMatt> do the latter, just to be sure
<SuperMatt> I personally prefer to put everything into a script and toggle that
<SuperMatt> Also, look in to systemd timers
<diplo> Are you good with systemd SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> I'm good enough
<SuperMatt> The arch wiki havs some great resources though
<diplo> May poke you in a few days then :) yeah I have a couple of things I'm not clear on, that I cna't seem to read up on enough to understand
<SuperMatt> Sure, go ahead. I'll try to answer, but I can't guarantee much in the way of success
<diplo> heh, it'll be later on in the week, re-writing init scripts currently and then moving on to systemd
<SuperMatt> Ah, you'll probably have no problems ith that
<brobostigon> afternoon boys and girls.
<diddledan> artanoon
<brobostigon> afternoon
<daftykins> m0nkey_: i'm down in Spain with that clients' AMD APU router running pfsense, working very nicely on the fibre service here!
<daftykins> ok gotta go for now, being plied with wine
<brobostigon> lucky duckie, :)
<m0nkey_> awesome.
<m0nkey_> I really want the blue case, but they wont have stock until end of the month :(
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey peeps
<diplo> hey knightwise, long time no hear(see) how are things ?
<ali1234> what do i need to read a "DTLtape IV 1/2" cartridge tape"?
<foobarry> a DLT drive?
<ali1234> i guess
<foobarry> u sure its DTL not DLT?
<foobarry> threw a load away yesterday
<ali1234> yeah its DLT
<ali1234> a load of the drives?
<foobarry> yeah
<ali1234> they sell for Â£50+ each on ebay
<foobarry> old tech was in old server room.
<foobarry> aint nobody got time for that
<ali1234> depending on the model up to Â£300
<diddledan> my mind gets blown by functional programming: https://youtu.be/bThEbBcrfKE
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-11
<ali1234> diddledan: this will explain it https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/13/stob_remember_the_monoids/
<ali1234> or maybe not
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Gargoyle> mornin' brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning Gargoyle
<SuperMatt> hoobledoopwhoop everybody
<Seeker`> quite.
<diddledan> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/trumps-doj-tries-to-rebrand-weakened-encryption-as-responsible-encryption/
<SuperMatt> I don't understand how these people don't understand that we have PKI. It's out in the public. Nothing anyone can do now can stop it.
<foobarry> i used a Â£3M deep learning computer to talk Trump
<foobarry> it learned english and grammar purely from trump tweets sent 2015-2017
<foobarry> using a recurrent neural network
<diddledan> foobarry: dear god, that sounds like the spawn of satan
<foobarry> then it
<foobarry> Top people like a successful way, you have one of America, Trump Clinton go to vote!""
<foobarry> invents new tweets character by characer based on probabilities and what it's learned
<foobarry> Donald Trump is a real story of a great people of the people of the White House to start the bad thing to be the best president!""
<foobarry> @realDonaldTrump is the only one who doesn't have a great politicians and the border back and wonderful people are doing a great honor!
<foobarry> after the @ symbol it's learned that commonly a r-e-a-l-D follows it then likely an o etc
<foobarry> "Entrepreneurs: Don't know this White House, I want to win in Florida!"
<foobarry> Trump ready to pay a failure. Guy so can't get someone in the state.""
<foobarry> 10:29
<foobarry> etc
<foobarry> i also trained it to write new shakespeare based on learning how to talk from shakespeare
<foobarry> not this isn't learning whole words like a bot, rather forming words characteer by character
<SuperMatt> I would have thought that'd a more difficult concept than understanding context of words
<TwistedLucidity> Surely Shakespeare is just taking an common sentence and then using a thesaurus?
<TwistedLucidity> "I will walk the dog down the street"
<TwistedLucidity> "I shall promenade my lupine compatriot along boulevard."
<TwistedLucidity> Hrm...maybe not
<SuperMatt> lupine is wold
<SuperMatt> *wolf
<SuperMatt> you're thinking canine
<TwistedLucidity> Was trying to be more Shakespear-y
<SuperMatt> Shakespear would have used hound in place of dog, but street would have probably remained the same, if I'm honest
<TwistedLucidity> Also, "lupine" is "wolf-like".
<diddledan> my would have been mine
<SuperMatt> Not that I'm a literary scholar
<TwistedLucidity> Should have chucked a few "thou"s in as well for good measure. :-P
<diddledan> and some "est" on the end of a few random words
<TwistedLucidity> Indeed
<TwistedLucidity> Indeedest
<SuperMatt> While we're on the subject, anyone been watching upstart crow?
<diddledan> o_O
<TwistedLucidity> Wozzat?
<diddledan> no idea what that is
<SuperMatt> head on over to bbc iplayer for a black adder-eque, ben elton penned, romp through shakespear's life, starring David Mitchell as the bard himself
<TwistedLucidity> That can only go one of two ways; sheer genius or utter garbage. There is no middle ground in a set-up like that.
<SuperMatt> Good news! It's sheer genius
<TwistedLucidity> \o/
<TwistedLucidity> Great....now I have the earworm "I have a cunning plan"
<TwistedLucidity> No, stop; now my brain has moved on to the "As cunning as a fox..." skit
<TwistedLucidity> ARGH!
<TwistedLucidity> Back to lupines for a bit, I met some Eastern European Wolfdogs a couple of months ago. Gorgeous creatures. Although probably would scare the wotsit out of one if seen running through a forest.
<SuperMatt> https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57080623/Screen_Shot_2017_10_10_at_8.03.27_AM.0.png aso very lupine
<TwistedLucidity> Star Wars: The Search for more Merch
<foobarry> SuperMatt: Recurrent neural networks do this well given sufficient training
<foobarry> i used the country's biggest GPU cluster to do it :D
<foobarry> the shakespeare stuff was great
<foobarry> https://pastebin.com/xY10f50R
<foobarry> sometimes it invents new words that just sounds shakespeary
<foobarry> So arm these barks, infake, we the intended
<foobarry> Ships of your pride!
<foobarry> i love how using a good source (e.g. shakespeare) it learns excellent grammar
<foobarry> it can also learn music, syntactically correct latex, html,e tc
<foobarry> you can even feed it the linux kernel source and it will produce compilable code
<foobarry> ...sort of
<diddledan> I worry what that would do when executed :-p
<foobarry> i was thinking of feeding it beatles lyrics and it would write totally novel songs
<diddledan> feed it lyrics AND music and get it to compose musical songs rather than just the words
<foobarry> it can do guitar tabs
<foobarry> http://www.mattmoocar.me/blog/tabPlayer/
<foobarry> badly
<marshmn> hi all; I'm thinking of changing my UID; so if I change it (using usermod) and I guess I have to chown all my files too - apart from that am I likely to run into any issues?
<marshmn> it feels like it ought to be OK - but slightly nervous...
<diddledan> marshmn: user id or username?
<marshmn> user id
<marshmn> I want to make it 2000 or something instead of 1000
<marshmn> and same for gid too, actually
<SuperMatt> You shouldn't come across any issues, but I would suggest using find to change your permissions. find /home/<youruser> -uid 1000 -exec chown 2000 {} \;
<diddledan> then yes you'll need to chown. try `sudo find /home/username -uid <olduid> -exec chown <newuid> '{}' \;`
<SuperMatt> HAHAHA
<marshmn> thanks both :)
<diddledan> and the same for group `sudo find /home/username -gid <oldgid> -exec chgrp <newgid> '{}' \;`
<marshmn> I guess I'm best off not being logged in as this user whilst doing all this :)
<SuperMatt> Absolutely
<SuperMatt> I'd log in as root from the command line
<SuperMatt> But I wonder why you're doing it
<marshmn> I'm trying to work around an issue; it seems that if you use Docker, and you are using the "user namespace remapping" feature, then there are issues if a user in your container happens to have the same UID as your host user
<marshmn> and since containers often create a new user with UID 1000, that becomes a problem
<marshmn> it's likely a bug
<marshmn> but a reasonable short-term workaround appears to be to set the host user UID to be something out of the way that's less likely to conflict
<foobarry> marshmn: your local machine?
<marshmn> yes
<foobarry> alternatively you could create a new user account rather than changing the 1000 one
<foobarry> then duplicating your home dir and chowning in
<foobarry> it*
<marshmn> true
<foobarry> then you can fail back if req'd
<foobarry> remember to chown the . folders in home too. the whole shebang
<diddledan> patch your bits! https://www.scmagazine.com/patch-tuesday-microsoft-62-vulnerabilities-28-critical-one-spotted-in-the-wild/article/699296/
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/dmataconis/status/917496578285490178
<marshmn> diddledan: I did a bit more research into changing my UID/GID - these are the steps that I've come up with in total: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s231/sh/412fb93d-b34c-4180-82f3-7a881d8c428f/1678d00c6abd1232ca03220b6992d169
<marshmn> any comments welcome...
<m0nkey_> diddledan: Do I want this APU2 board for pfSense?
<daftykins> m0nkey_: YES!
<daftykins> hi from London \o
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> ok, i'll order tonight.
<m0nkey_> getting the APU2C4
<daftykins> just turned up at my clients' pad in SW6
<daftykins> gotta sit in the floor as there's no furniture yet
<m0nkey_> 16GB SSD should be enough
<daftykins> or on, even
<daftykins> yeah tonnes, actually i did an update on my clients one down in Spain, it has a 16GB microSD in it or something?
<daftykins> isn't too painful to do a slice duplication and update
<m0nkey_> I'll have to perform a full install of pfSense as 2.4 will be available by then
<daftykins> funkeh
<daftykins> i'm likely to suggest he get another one for here in London, then we'll have 100/100Mb fibre here, the 50/50 in Spain and the 40/5 in Guernsey - start running services between for free calls etc :D
<m0nkey_> I understand these can do GbE
<daftykins> hells yeah
<m0nkey_> ok, sold.
<m0nkey_> $168 USD, APU2C4, black enclosure, 12V plug, 16GB SSD and USB to DB9 cable.
<daftykins> no love for web admin?
<m0nkey_> then whatever shipping and taxes are
<m0nkey_> Need serial cable for install :)
<daftykins> ah because you don't have anything with mSATA eh?
<daftykins> i suppose any such other method would only be a bit of a bodge
<m0nkey_> Correct
<m0nkey_> I'm hovering over the order now button.. lol
<daftykins> do it before i send the nearest canuck over to do it for you ;D
<daftykins> clearly red enclosure is cooler though
<daftykins> it says "don't unplug me!"
<m0nkey_> i wanted blue
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> right i gotta do patch tuesday things on my home box remotely, biab
<m0nkey_> so i want the red one?
<m0nkey_> does it look super cool?
<daftykins> sec i have a pic
<daftykins> i shall PM a link
<m0nkey_> ok
<m0nkey_> daftykins: Ordered.
<m0nkey_> Now I gotta figure out how I migrate my existing config
<daftykins> already got a pfsense? backup -> import :>
<daftykins> didn't do too badly on a mainlander SIM for me to be online these last couple of days
<daftykins> i paid Â£30 for a pay as you go SIM with 3000 mins, 3000 texts and 12GB data from 'Three'
<m0nkey_> not if the interfaces are different
<m0nkey_> ie.. going from re to igb
<m0nkey_> so a manual modification will be required
<m0nkey_> SpaceX is live.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv1zeGSvhIw
<diddledan> beautiful evening for it
<daftykins> heyup chap \o
<diddledan> ello :-)
<daftykins> i feel like such a country bumpkin using the London underground
<diddledan> yeah, I can't work that thing, either
<diddledan> "what do you mean I'm not allowed to stand on the left?"
<daftykins> my flight out of Malaga was 1hr late ;_;
<diddledan> oof
<daftykins> but worst of all a vending machine stole mah money and give me nothing!
<diddledan> you back home now or still with us on the britland?
<daftykins> *gave
<daftykins> i'm still invading yeah, i'm now at my clients' new London pad
<daftykins> Â£600k+ and it's just a little 2 bed 2 bath apartment in a gated community
<daftykins> i'm sat on the floor 'cause there's nowt here
<diddledan> aww :-(
<daftykins> he's gone around and drawn in big thick black pen where he invisions furniture etc, haha
<daftykins> *envisions, sheesh my typing tonight
<diddledan> that sounds like a bad idea. what if it doesn't rub-off?
<daftykins> well in true him fashion, the whole place is being gutted, walls moved, etc
<m0nkey_> Isn't that you're thing, diddledan? I mean, rubbing one off should be your thing.
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> I refuse to comment on the basis that I might incriminate myself
<daftykins> wise
<daftykins> i've just fed his addy into hyperoptic.com again but it still says 'fibre to be ordered'
<daftykins> some cages will be rattled 'pon the 'morrow then, methinks
<diddledan> they stuck the landing on a boat AGAIN
<diddledan> they're getting rather silly with their landings
<daftykins> must be taking a while to bring it up the Thames ;D
<diddledan> and it was in the dark!
<daftykins> sure was when i got in
<diddledan> they're having trouble with their video feeds today tho
<daftykins> oh silly me you were referring to SpaceX, not hyperoptic
<diddledan> is that image showing that it's half-way across the atlantic in 15 minutes?!
<daftykins> still amused by them bringing fibre into central London via the Thames though
<daftykins> i wonder what that would cost... Guernsey to London, mmm
<diddledan> 3/4ths the way from launch to africa
<daftykins> good lord you can hear noise from neighbouring apartments easily
<diddledan> from standing in florida to africa landfall in 21 minutes. sure beats the heck out of concorde!
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> y'see that talk of riding the 'BFR' for land travel?
<diddledan> no?
<daftykins> think it's another SpaceX pipe dream
<diddledan> well hyperloop is another of elon's attempts so it isn't surprising, I guess
<daftykins> guy has too much goin' on
<daftykins> i mean how do you even position that many pies to keep your fingers in them all in one go?
<daftykins> alright i best sleep, there is stuff to be do
<daftykins> toodles \o
<diddledan> nn
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-12
<foobarry> has nayone tried to upgrade php on a prod centos/rhel server e.g. latest centos6 version is 5.3.3 , and i need >=5.40
<foobarry> options 1) SCL 2) IUS repo 3) upgrade to c7 (not really possible)
<MooDoo> howdy all
<m0nkey_> daftykins: my pcengines order is confirmed. just paid the invoice :)
<diplo> I have in the past foobarry, but not recently
 * diplo just noticed that was like 5 hours ago, where has the day gone!
<foobarry> did IUS repo via yum shell.went OK
<diddledan> wat: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/12/openxchange_imap_chat_killer_app
<m0nkey_> diddledan: check out JMAP. It's being developed by the Cyrus devs and FastMail
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-13
<diddledan> Intel Management Engine is apparently running MINIX? http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/04/intel-me-way-of-static-analysis.html
<diddledan> yikes, how many patches is AMDGPU pushing now? another 103 were supplied to the LKML on Wedsnesday
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<MooDoo> back in a sec
<diplo> Morning all
 * diplo is driving to Edinburgh shortly, wish me well :P
<diddledan> snake oil? https://www.indiegogo.com/products/batteroo-extend-your-battery-s-life-significantly
<Seeker`> yes
<Seeker`> didn't click the link. But yes.
<m0nkey_> Wow. What crap.
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/juliansimioni/status/918850019935080448
<diddledan> ^^^ history of prototype-based languages
<daftykins> ahoy hoy
<daftykins> this rockdweller just sampled a mcdonalds and a KFC, for a rare treat!
<diddledan> wondergopher: https://twitter.com/ashleymcnamara/status/918953021844934656
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-14
<daftykins> diddledan: i had a late morning fryup today in Fulham Broadway, then i spotted a mouse scurrying in the kitchen!
<daftykins> and it had NO chefs hat on!
<directhex_> remy was a rat not a mouse!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<chrisf_> sun6i-dma.c defines the DMA pause bit as BIT(1) but the reference manual says it should be BIT(0). Am I mistaken or is one of them wrong?
<penguin42> so, Bladerunner 2049 - yeh or nay?
<brobostigon> not sure yet, havent seen it yet.
<penguin42> me neither, but was considering doing today
<brobostigon> ah. report back if you do, i would be curious.
 * chrisf_ realises he's posted on completely the wrong channel ...
<brobostigon> woops.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Not bad
<daftykins> i've seen it, mmm some questionable decisions, definitely needs another watch or three :D
<penguin42> daftykins: bit long
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> Vue really was pants quality too
<daftykins> once you've seen an OLED TV everything pales
<penguin42> daftykins: The only problem with the Vue here was the slight dent in the top of the screen
<diddledan> daftykins: what about an OLED phone in a headset?
<diddledan> daftykins: cinema at home they claim :-pp
<daftykins> hah, think they've had issues dev'ing small ones
<daftykins> i saw a bunch of MSANs around Fulham with advertising from BT on, heh
<brobostigon> penguin42: ah ok, ty.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-15
<nick__> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you this fine day?
<brobostigon> :( <--- input coffee here.
<brobostigon> and you?
<MooDoo> got the coffee check, bacon on check, and doing ok, playing about with tmux as my default console app in i3, sundays rock lol
<MooDoo> oops well that didn't work lol kicked me out of chat
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> well tmux seems to be a good console app
<brobostigon> multiplexer, :)
<MooDoo> yeah yeah :)
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> m0nkey_: weyhey got my OpenVPN access to the APU pfsense box down in Spain :D
<daftykins> ooh i see the 2.4.0 update!
<daftykins> "NanoBSD platform is no longer supported." oh dear :P
<m0nkey_> yup
<m0nkey_> meh, it'll be installed on a SSD
<daftykins> yeah doesn't help me remotely updating mine though
<m0nkey_> i'm still running 2.3.whatever on my ghetto dual core celeron
<daftykins> when does your toy show up?
<m0nkey_> I'm hoping this coming week
<penguin42> what you bought?
<m0nkey_> it's been shipped
<m0nkey_> not showing up in tracking yet
<m0nkey_> APU2C4, 16GB mSATA SSD, Red chassis, 12V PSU and a USB-to-DB9F cable
<penguin42> APU2C4?
<m0nkey_> http://pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm
<penguin42> ah interesting board
<m0nkey_> AMD 1GHz quad core, 4GB ECC RAM and three intel NICs
<m0nkey_> So it'll make a perfect firewall appliance
<penguin42> not, I use a fanless dual core celeron mATX board for that
<diddledan> not? as in you're disagreeing with the premise that it'll make a perfect firewall appliance?
<penguin42> sorry, *nod*
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> I was working on "now" but that didn't really work either :-p
<daftykins> kinda funny they've retired nanoBSD just as i've finalised it
<diddledan> why is nanoBSD killed?
<daftykins> the nanoBSD installs of pfsense i should say
<daftykins> i have to follow quite the multi stage process in order to convert it to a full install now and dump the whole 'slices' setup, but i'm not feeling too confident about doing that remotely
<daftykins> ah well maybe there's no major reason to be chasing an update just yet :P
<diddledan> why does the word "shitake" make me think you're talking about a bad cake?
<daftykins> or a bad attempt during the filming of a movie
 * penguin42 hands diddledan some prunes
<Alina1> Hey
<daftykins> \o
<Alina1> Real sex / vitrual sex in your city, register and confirm email  -> https://goo.gl/bN7bmH
<daftykins> ooh great
<daftykins> diddledan: BIG NEWS
<daftykins> diddledan: https://imgur.com/gallery/6hYrq
<diddledan> nedgenog tent?!
<diddledan> sarah silverman is cool: https://youtu.be/EckQ1UzsyY4
