#ubuntu-learning 2010-04-19
<doctormo> hi Nono
<DiegoTc> ping pleia2
<pleia2> DiegoTc: hey
<DiegoTc> hi pleia2
<DiegoTc> pleia2, there is going to be another ubuntu user days?
<pleia2> DiegoTc: yep, join us in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage :)
<pleia2> if you'd like, we're actually talking about it now
<DiegoTc> ping pleia2
<DiegoTc> ping cjohnston  and pleia2
<pleia2> hey DiegoTc
<DiegoTc> hi pleia2
<DiegoTc> pleia2: Want to comment you something, I was talking with some guys from latimamerica about the creation of an ubuntu-learning team (spanish version)
<DiegoTc> this way we will try to use the benefits of the team into spanish
<pleia2> which part of the learning team? We're now doing three things: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<DiegoTc> right now we have planned to be encharge of the organization of the open week, USD, UDW
<pleia2> ah, so the Classroom stuff
<pleia2> I think a spanish version sounds great
<DiegoTc> pleia2: yeap it would be the Community Teaching (classroom stuff)
<pleia2> we're doing most of the organizing for that in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage
<DiegoTc> this way we will take advantage of this events for the spanish guys :D
<pleia2> yeah, I gave PabloRubianes contacts for each of open week, dev week, etc people
<pleia2> he was asking in -beginners-team this morning
<DiegoTc> yeap I wrote to them
<DiegoTc> Pablo nows about this plan
<DiegoTc> pleia2: so when we have created the wiki,lp team and the others things we can add the link to the learning wiki and this way the community will know about it
<DiegoTc> D
<DiegoTc> :D
<DiegoTc> thanks pleia2  for your time
<doctormo> DiegoTc: Don't forget to stay involved here, this is the hub for learnign activities, just so different groups can learn from each other.
<DiegoTc> doctormo: yeap here you learn great stuffs :D
<doctormo> pleia2: Did you get a chance to look at my debian packaging diagram?
<pleia2> DiegoTc: maybe put the page together and have us take a look so we put it in the right part of the project? I think your idea is really better suited at wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom rather than linked directly on Learning
<pleia2> but I'm not completely sure
<pleia2> doctormo: nope :\
<pleia2> doctormo: link?
<doctormo> pleia2: http://imagebin.ca/view/MOGt_Tw.html
<pleia2> neat
<pleia2> who is the audience/
<pleia2> ?
<doctormo> So far I'm collecting thoughts
<doctormo> Eventually though it should make it's way into some sort of quick visual guide for the packing impaired
<doctormo> pleia2: This is what I basically want to do: http://imagebin.ca/view/79p58iGb.html
<pleia2> doctormo: have you seen some of the others that exist diagramming this?
<doctormo> Pardon?
<pleia2> http://bp1.blogger.com/_V_eFWvv9a2I/SAEtQdWZevI/AAAAAAAAAdo/TZzsTV6qpWw/s1600-h/Debian-package-cycle.png
<pleia2> I think there is another one out there too
 * pleia2 digs through notes
<doctormo> pleia2: Holy smoke! see that diagram, it'd casperise any rookie
<pleia2> oh yes, yours is much simpler and has a different target :)
<doctormo> http://imagebin.ca/view/YrEuABH8.html
<doctormo> Provoking understanding and documenting are different
<doctormo> I keep on trying to tell people this
<doctormo> You need lies, little lies, that don't always tell the whole truth
<doctormo> But enough to get going and let the reader digg further.
<pleia2> oh sure, I wasn't suggesting this was a replacement for yours, I was just exposing you to current ones in case there was anything you felt you needed to incorporate
 * pleia2 giggles @ http://mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/newdebian2.png
<pleia2> if you really want their head to explode!
<doctormo> Oh yes, I saw that one
<doctormo> :-)(
<doctormo> ScottK was explaining how dificult it is to find people to educate about deb packaging, because the skills are HARD and the similification almost imposible.
<doctormo> (I wanted to add: "to programmers maybe") :-P
<pleia2> honestly most packagers only need to know a snapshot of the process to be successful
<pleia2> it's impossible to know everything anyway, so it's terribly overwhelming at first, you just need to understand that you won't become an expert over night, do your best, and ask the right questions when you need to
 * pleia2 asks DDs tough questions, and most of them can't answer most of the time and have to dig up docs :)
<pleia2> I really thought I was stupid for a while WRT debian packaging, turns out it's just *really hard and complicated* and everyone has trouble
<pleia2> once I realized this I was much happier :)
<pleia2> (hint: don't compare yourself to westby or watson from day one, or year 3, they are masters)
<doctormo> Indeed
<doctormo> I gave up on understanding it when I realised hardly anyone else knew either
<pleia2> I wouldn't say I gave up, but I did stop beating my head against the wall and let the knowledge trickle in rather than being so agressive about it
<doctormo> Ah well, I gave up on active persuite, I assumed the know how would come to me in the fullness of time.
<doctormo> pleia2: http://divajutta.com/doctormo/learning/deb.pdf
<pleia2> doctormo: looks good so far, but it's sad that the diagram still looks so complicated at first glance
<pleia2> I might use something even simpler for the contents page
#ubuntu-learning 2010-04-20
<Vantrax> doctormo_, just wanted to say you are doing an awsome job with the work you have been doing
<doctormo_> Vantrax: Thanks, which work btw? learning, teaching, designing?
<Vantrax> I was looking more at the designing, but ive heard good things about your teaching as well.
<doctormo_> I think a lot of the designs are in beta still, but I'm happy to see a bigger designer community take root
#ubuntu-learning 2010-04-22
<doctormo> pleia2: Did you see the Canonical announcement about their ubuntu only sys admin training?
<pleia2> doctormo: yep
<doctormo> It's interesting to me as a course writer in the same sphere because while my course requires familarity with ubuntu at least as a desktop but no experence as an admin, Canonical's requires no "linux" experence, but some sys admin experence.
<doctormo> I think some of my course materials have to go more into the basics of systems administration because of the way I've positioned it.
<pleia2> yeah, if it's anything like what was planned at the training sprint in baltimore I attended with them early last year, it really is step by step "this is how you install a mailserver (postgres)" "this is how to install a webserver (apache)"
<pleia2> so they need to know what a mailserver and webserver are and how they work, but the course teaches them specific "doing this on linux" stuff
<pleia2> honestly it's not something I'd ever need or the direction I'd go with teaching such a thing, but apparently canonical thinks there is a market
<doctormo> Interesting, postgres is a database.
<pleia2> err, I meant postfix
<doctormo> ah haha
<doctormo> I'd go with exim4 anyway
 * pleia2 been doing too much postgres this morning :)
<pleia2> me too, but ubuntu ships with postfix
<doctormo> I used to help run a very large public mail system using exim, I just liked the fact that I could write filters in perl.
<pleia2> yeah, exim's flexibility is what made us go with it
<pleia2> postfix is good enough for most things these days though
<pleia2> I can see why ubuntu diverged from debian there, it's easier too
<doctormo> Mail servers and easy in the same line, heh
<pleia2> there is that, I wonder if they'll cover any spam stuff
<pleia2> simple concept, but I hate mail administration more than anything else I do as a sysadmin
<doctormo> I agree, it's one of the more complex tasks, spam management especially.
<doctormo> But suppose your running a mail server with multiple domains and hundreds of thousands of addresses.
<doctormo> It gets a little hairy
<doctormo> I think that's why that job was the last time I did systems administration
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I'm perfectly happy working for a small company where our biggest clients only have multi-domain support for "hundreds" of users :)
<doctormo> I need to come up with some better practicals for the networking class, I did it last night and it seemed to lack the element of go that the others so far have done.
<pleia2> "the element of go"?
<doctormo> To act on something, to do
<doctormo> It was a lot of listening, theory and not much to do.
<pleia2> gotcha
<pleia2> if you wanna toss the draft I can see if I can make some suggestions
<pleia2> but networking is a tricky thing for practicals
<doctormo> Yes indeed, although I think I might end up cleaving the networking class into two parts, east and hard (or begginner and advanced)
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> because some details weren't even discussed last night, but they were in the documentation
<pleia2> that should be easy enough to do, I got by with very basic networking knowledge as a sysadmin for quite a while
#ubuntu-learning 2010-04-23
<doctormo> pleia2: Could I have a quote from you about ground control? for the website
<doctormo> Something related to learning materials etc
<pleia2> doctormo: sure, just need to wrap up this meeting
<pleia2> wow, licenses are bad enough, licenses tied to ip addresses?
<pleia2> migration nightmare
<doctormo> pleia2: Eh? propritary licenses?
<pleia2> doctormo: it's actually a license for using an API
<pleia2> this company a client deals with thought it would be a good idea to tie the license to the origin address
<doctormo> Ew, some of the terms for facebook, picasa and that other horrible photo site were quite bad.
<pleia2> makes me crazy, and I had to work an hour later to find the error that confirmed my suspicion
<pleia2> mazes of javascript and php, I need a drink now :)
 * pleia2 thinks up GC quote
 * doctormo thinks you should record this instance and perhaps others into a "why a company side FOSS preference would be a good idea from contractors and software puchases"
<doctormo> pleia2: Any luck ont hat quote?
<doctormo> cjohnston: And you said you'd do a quote right?
<pleia2> I am suffering from severe lack of focus this evening, just a moment :)
<pleia2> "Making a project easy to contribute to is vital to the success of a project like UCLP, with Ground Control were were able to slice the barrier to entry to our project without sacrificing the benefits of a revision control system."
<pleia2> I can say more if you want:)
<doctormo> Thats great, thanks pleia2
<pleia2> sure thing
<pleia2> doctormo: also, wow, that GC site looks amazing :)
<doctormo> I hope so
<doctormo> :-) I'm trying to think up a new icon
<doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/gcweb/
<pleia2> I like that rocket :)
<doctormo> pleia2: I updated the logo more after someone suggested a few things: http://groundcontrol.doctormo.org
<doctormo> Since you liked it before, wondering if you still do.
<pleia2> doctormo: ah, brighter now, nice :)
<doctormo> actually just got http://ground-control.org
<pleia2> yay
#ubuntu-learning 2011-04-22
<juzzy_> hi, my ati card under ubuntu is playing up, something fierce, i have multiple drivers involved, how can i put it back to an original state?
#ubuntu-learning 2012-04-19
<Portaro> hola
